# The future of MLS



## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

This post is not going to be another grenade throwing session at MyLargeScale. What I think we need to do is stop and think about what the site has actually done for the hobby as a whole. I personally was just Google searching G-Scale one day and stumbled onto MLS. Through the sight, I found out about Marty's event not to far from me. That first event changed me from a life long HO person to a G-Scaler in one day. It was actually thru some posts on MLS that I found out about LargeScaleCentral, and joined over there too. I primarily posted in MLS because I'm one of those who doesn't just post the same thing in multiple spots. Nothing against those who do, I just don't take the time myself to do it. I'm not one of those who love this site, hate that site. I'm just to **** lazy to keep searching.

MLS was a great site for years under Shad's ownership. And he was so well appreciated, site members banded together and voted him in to win a free cab ride on Union Pacific's steamer. Thru the site, and Marty's events I have met a lot of great people in the hobby who I consider good friends. Many of those people I found are also members on LSC. But we all know, life changes and Shad had to let MLS go. Whether he knew about the VS track record of letting sites die we won't know. I have a feeling a lot of smoke was blown up his hind end, and he truly felt like it was the best for the site. Shad, like Bob; cared about the hobby, and it showed in his site. Bob's site (LSC) is still great for that reason. VS is a business, and they are going to run their site to profit them, and it will be the downfall to the site. I know they have screwed up really bad lately with the picture thing, and a lot of people are upset about that. I understand that, but beating the dead horse isn't going to fix it.

I have read where people say the site is dying because of this reason or that. The site is dying because the old timers don't post here anymore is a favorite. NO, the site is dying because YOU are letting it die. People move on in life, situations change and therefore they don't participate in the site, or even the hobby anymore. That shouldn't change what you do. YOU have to stop and think if what you are doing is contributing to a site's existence, or it's demise. VS f'd up badly with the photo thing. Can it be fixed? Is it being fixed? Nobody truly knows, it is just a bunch of guessing and to be frank; bitching too. One thing I can tell you, VS is a business. If the site isn't profiting them, they aren't going to maintain or fix it; and then we will lose it all. The membership will be the sole reason for that. If you were looking to get in the hobby and ran across MLS today, would you continue on thru the site? Would you look for others and find LSC? Or would you read the post about the site and hobby dying and just move on?

It doesn't matter if you like MLS or not. It doesn't matter if you like VS or not. It doesn't matter if you posted solely on LSC or MLS. Nobody should be happy the site is dying. Nobody should be happy VS is getting what they deserve. Sites like LSC and MLS help support and grow the hobby and that is what is truly important. In the last few years this hobby has lost a major manufacturer. Another has pulled back on some of their products. Several of the small mom-and-pop shops have stopped operating. One of the greatest hobby shops ever closed it's doors. Do we really want to lose a tool to bring exposure to our hobby?

I have started posting on LSC a lot more recently. I still post on MLS but less than I should. Why? A few of the people I know have moved over here exclusively. But more because I'm starting to meet people here, and starting to feel like I'm not the site noob. So to answer my own question, am I doing my part to help MLS survive? I would have to say no. But I need to change my line of thinking, and post over there AND over here. One thing I learned that is very different from HO to G scale people, is garden railroaders tend to bond together a lot tighter. I don't know why, maybe there is an extra level of weirdness in us; but it just seems to be a more close knit group.

VS may be the catalyst, may be the excuse we will use to justify the death of MLS. But in the end, it will be the membership that will torpedo the ship.

Chris


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Why start a new thread?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

lack of feedback leaves little for us to have any hope things will get better, I've lost 80mb of photos, permanently ...destroying 10 years of posts, I have very few reasons for continuing here and the lousy response we are getting from VS doesn't help. To me the site isnt dying because people active on the site not giving a dam, its the perception that those who are running the joint dont give a fig.

As I said elsewhere regarding the loss of access...The cold hard math is that they may lose 20-30 long time members, but for them that's an acceptable loss when they are still getting 200-300 non-members clicking their adverts every day. We lose.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Why start a new thread?


To poke VS in the eye to get a response for one


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

At this point we are at their mercy. I think we have expressed all the righteous indignation that is necessary and helpful.

I'm sitting back and waiting, at least the home page and ftp access works today. To me this means they are working on it, a good sign.

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg: the others (plural) are about specific problems and the complaints in general (most of those could easily have been just one thread)... this one is about the membership and what to do, aside from the specific problems. I don't object to it being separate, it has a different focus... though I agree, all are about MLS, just the others are more specific to the screw-ups and this one is about what do the ones that are unaffected could do about the site in-general being lost because of those of us that have been insulted by the management (in their general inexcusable lack of professional care) are considering going elsewhere.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Point well taken.

Greg


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Well to be honest with you (and this will probably offend people) the other post has become a redundant diatribe over the current state of affairs. It has turned into the neighborhood barking dog, that gets the other dogs barking, and half of them don't know why. I fully understand the frustration of the author, and in no way am I saying he shouldn't be able to air his grievances. But unlike reruns of MASH, the same post over and over again will lose people's interest.

This was started new to try and shift focus away from the problem(s) and try to aim more toward a solution. And I ask that it stays that way, and not just another string of VS bashing.

Thanks and Sorry to those I probably offended,
Chris


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

No offense to me. I understand your focus and agree. Besides, you have just as much right as anyone to express your opinion. More power to you!


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I to have noticed that large scalers in general are a more tight knit bunch, and live steamers even more so being a niche within a niche scale of the hobby. MLS is more active than the other sites, and I am member of several. Many of the younger crowd moved to F book of which I do not do. Personally I would like to see VS do away with the need to be 1st class for the classifieds, that idea went out the window with LSOL in my opinion. None of the other sites I belong to require one to be a paying member for this. Several require so many posts before you can post in that part of the forum to keep out the "one and gone" crowd. But for me MLS is quite functional for my needs. Its a shame about the losses others have incurred. But its in the past. Lets move forward the best we can. If that is here on MLS, fine, if its else where, that is fine to. The high activity of the live steam forum is the many reason I stick around MLS. But I am a member of 3 other forums with a large scale or live steam focus. SO I can do else where and do from time to time. Many times I cross post as there are those who only will belong to 1 forum and I value everybodys opinion when I need help. I always find lots of great help, support and entertainment value here, despite ongoing issues that are beyond our control. Mike


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

OK, so I'm going all William Wallace on this thing and we are going to take control of this site, OUR SITE back. VS may be the owner, but in the end WE will decide the fate of MLS.

To start with, I want you to think of this site as your GRR. If you have a spot that kicks the same Bachmann boxcar off every 10th trip, you pull and prod on that spot a little each time hoping it will fall in line. However, as soon as that spot dumps your $10k Accucraft live steamer on the ground the track gets completely ripped out and fixed. So now it is time for us (the membership) to dump VerticalScope's live steamer on the ground.

A few of you have contacted VS over the photo issues. Have you been in contact with the same person always? A small group of people? Or are you just using the "Contact Us" link? If you have a name, give it to us. If a person hears from 10 people he pokes and prods on it. But once that number reaches 100 or more, they start to look at fixing the track.

So let's as a group, start to TACTFULLY contact VS and let them know we want this fixed. And you can tell them, "If you don't fix it, I will go somewhere else" Now, I know some have, but come on; they aren't reading all of the posts here. But you start dumping this in someone's INBOX and they will take notice. VS is a business, nobody coming here means no sponsors. No sponsors means no money. No money means no business. And we need to make that clear to them.

I'm sorry to offend you, but "At this point we are at their mercy" is the first sign of giving up. I know a few have expressed their opinion thru posts, and some thru direct contact. But let's increase that number and make ourselves heard.

So please, if you have direct contact info, post it here and lets be heard.

Chris


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chris, a unified approach, properly focused and in a professional manner would probably work.

There's an email somewhere... that would do it... isn't it in the "how to contact admin" thread?

Greg


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Found it, thanks Greg

OK guys, there are two ways to make contact. Feel free to use either, or even both.

So lets start an effort to get ourselves heard. I would suggest the following in your message:

1. Your username (even though it will be in the message)
2. Your join date
3. Tactfully state your issues with the site all together.
4. Make it clear, that you have alternatives. Remember this is a business to VS, so benefiting us WILL benefit them. Feel free to remind them of that.
5. We need contact of what is going on, thru a Sticky Post with a plan on how to fix and improve the site. Keep us aware of required down times to make the improvements. 
6. Title your message "Current Status of MyLargeScale"

If you have already left, feel free to message them tell them why. 

DON"T expect an immediate answer, or even one at all. If we can get this going enough to the point it will get their attention, they shouldn't be able to answer everyone. 

DON'T expect it to be fixed overnight, the site needs major repair, allow them a reasonable amount of time. DON'T give me the "they have had since X to do it", the past is the past; let's move forward.

DO feel free to contact more than once, but limit it to once a week or once every other week. Over complaining can result in you being ignored.

After making contact, please reply to this thread simply by saying "Contacted" It will also help keep this thread current and will also help get notice.

DON'T dump this on the Moderators, this is for the Site Admin.

Here is the link to directly PM the admin: http://forums.mylargescale.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=3

Here is the link to the Contact Us: http://forums.mylargescale.com/sendmessage.php

I know some will have reservations about contacting. Remember, this is YOUR site. If we lose it, then it is gone and that is not good for the hobby.

Chris


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Contacted


For those interested:

Hello,

I am up9018 on MyLargeScale. I joined the sight January 4, 2008. I understand when you purchased this site, there were some issues you inherited that needed some correction. However, there has been no noticeable improvement to the site since then.

MyLargeScale has been a staple in the hobby for quite some time. Improvements need to be made to the site, and issues addressed to keep it one. 

1. While it doesn't affect me, the ongoing issues with the pictures needs to be addressed as it affected many others. It either needs to be fixed or you need to let everyone know you will no longer be offering the service.

2. The site needs updated. One of the easiest ways to tell nothing is being done is by logging into the home page. You will see the same old Photo Contest scroll that has been going on for years now. That shows apathy toward the site by it's owner.

3. The format is fine, but the software could use some upgrading to make it easier to use.

4. There needs to be a Sticky in which Admin lets the membership know what is going on with the site, including any required downtime for improvements and somewhat of a plan of what you are doing.

I am a member of other sites. And I have started using those sites more than MLS. Many others are following suite. I know this site is a business to VS. As a business you should realize no membership means no sponsors. No sponsors means no money, and no money means no business.

Improving the site for the membership, will help retain members. It will help bring in new members. And in return it will increase your profits. Ignoring it will let it die, and cost you in the end.

Thanks,
Chris


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice writeup... small typo: first sentence after #4... "following suite" should be "following suit" ...

If I was being really picky, the last sentence, the first comma is superfluous. Also, you never begin a sentence with and.

But who's picky? 

Good idea Chris...

Greg


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris
Well constructed overview of an appropriate engagement with the situations at hand.

Even more so the purpose of your thread is spot on:
"This was started new to try and shift focus away from the problem(s) and try to aim more toward a solution. And I ask that it stays that way, and not just another string of VS bashing."

As you have stated, all MLS members already know the problems, have vented and now need to find a solution. Leaving the site only lessens the avenue to the public engaging our hobby thus less exposure. Already we know that the population and products are becoming less in numbers. Despite the problems with MLS it is a window into our little playground.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Sent:

To the management and owners of Vertical Scope:
I am Semper Vaporo on MyLargeScale.com (and many other web sites). The words are Latin for “Eternally/Forever Steam (in transition)” and I use that name because of my passion for Railroad Steam Locomotives. I have been a member of MyLargeScale for so long I don’t remember just when I joined, but it was long before Vertical Scope purchased the site from Shad Pulley.
Not long after I joined, I paid for a “1st Class Membership” with the forum. I did this not only because I recognized the need to support the owner of the forum, but to obtain the benefit of storage space “on-line” for photos and other files, and some other “perks” offered to 1st class members.
Many have poured their time and energies into this hobby and have used this website to share their experience and expertise with others. There are thousands of threads on this site that contain this expertise making this site ‘THE place’ to go to learn about Large Scale Trains and what to do to make them run well and to enhance the enjoyment that people derive from the hobby.
Yes, it is only a hobby, but for many people it is the expression of their art. This site is an “Art Museum”, displaying the artistic work of many individuals. These artists put many hours, not just into developing their works, but even more time into creating the display of that work on this site.
Yet, today, much of that work has been lost… Destroyed... Wiped out..... Due to the loss of many directories in that set of on-line storage space, images and data that those people uploaded to the web space they paid for in order to share their art.
These people are deeply hurt by this loss… their work, their effort, their “baby”, has been lost, no different than as if a fire or flood has destroyed a brick and mortar art museum.
A major reason for people visiting this site has been lost… the tutorials and threads full of images that explain the intricate parts and procedures in this hobby are damaged or totally lost.
I am greatly disheartened by this loss, but I am also quite disturbed by the lack of timely and informative response by the ownership of the site to the questions and comments posted by those that have lost their work.
MyLargeScale.com was the premier site for information about Garden Scale trains and a large reason for its existence is now lost. What are you, the owners of this web site, doing to aid in the recovery of the artistic expression lost by the deletion of the personal web space that these members paid for and spent their time and energies filling?


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Contacted

sent PM to admin:

Hi, My name is Tomahawk and Western RR(nate heffner) and i have been a member here for 2 years.

I am writing to you to share my opinion of MLS currently. The largest issue of all, being all of the member's Web pages and Pictures. This has been the worst Blow to the site, and WILL most likely cause its demise if not fixed. The lack of answers to our questions about photos and sites is maddening. Also, there are many other things that need to be fixed with the site, Such as the Old, non-working chatroom, photo contest, Ect.
I know that you are a Business, and the more people that visit, the more your profits go up, so driving people off is not good for anyone.

MLS is an important site to anyone in the hobby of Large scale Model Railroading, and therefore it would be a huge loss for this site to go under. Any thread full of useful information are now useless, without their pictures. People have lost much of their hard work and efforts Through this, and no solution has been reached. Dumping someones photos and websites is like taking someones family photo albums and dumping them in a fire- these are the type of things that CAN NOT be replaced. Remember , there ARE OTHER sites that we can move to, and leave you guys here without the site making money.
so for the best interest of EVERYONE, PLEASE get MLS back on its feet, so thi means restore photos and websites, Fix the Chatroom and photo contests, and pull back on the amount of ads.

This will benefit you and others in the long run.


sincerely,
Nate Heffner


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Message sent to Admin:


As of today THREE MONTHS....where are my photographs?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Victor, I love ya man! But I think you were as subtle as a sledgehammer ha ha!

Greg


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

I understand and acknowledge the situation of losing one's information along with the importance to seeking prior posts and how it affects the reading the post(s).
The future of MLS is strong as evident by the responses to my most recent post in the live steam section. I average about 2500 views a day on Flickr. Yesterday I posted photos about the most recent steamup with about 2500 views. 
Today, I put notice on the MLS live steam forum that there were photos of the event: thus far 12000 views on the Flickr account related to that upload.

Point to be made is that there are a lots of eyes on this website. It does bring in traffic and exposure for the hobby. So, constructive approach to seeking a solution is key to our community!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

They replied. and they say they are still working on trying to recover the pictures. They requested that we inform them what pictures dissapeared (when, where)

BTW , chris, i talked to natalie.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I would like to ask for a SMALL list of threads that are affected by the loss of the images because some of the user MLS 1st Class storage folders are missing.

If you are one of the members affected, please list the threads that are most important to you (you don't need to list them all, just some representative threads to show the effect of the missing images).

If you are not affected directly by the missing directories, list any threads that have been important to you in the past (or that you consider would be of value to you, or anyone in the future!) that are now near useless because of the loss of the images.

Just a couple of threads from each person so affected would be nice to provide to the owners of the site to show that these missing folders are important.

Here are two that came to my mind when I thought about it:

http://forums.mylargescale.com/11-public-forum/65906-automobile-railcar-conversions.html

http://forums.mylargescale.com/13-indoor-railways/56514-angry-beaver-logging-railway-micro.html

In addition: If you were running a web site through these folders, list what they were and their value to you personally.

Such as; I am keeping a list of Railroad Roundhouse and/or Turntable sites anywhere in the world. This list is huge and was created by many people, mainly from the Trains dot com forums. I have listed the URLs of my MLS 1st class folders of these lists on the Trains dot com forum (and others) for other people to download the files for their use. I am the keeper of the master lists, but I add to them often from postings from others that know of more roundhouse and/or turntable sites that are visible on Google Earth or they have incontrovertible evidence of their existence now or in the past. (Presently I have over 1080 sites listed in the U.S. alone and another 890 in the rest of the world and I am working on adding another couple of hundred to that Non-U.S. list given to me by a person from Germany... his list covers Europe and Asia).

Granted, I have not lost MY copy of this list, but over this last weekend I got messages that no one would download the lists and I then discovered that I had lost access to my on-line storage also. This apparently was a short term problem that has been taken care of (on Tuesday). But it certainly created a panic!

Thank you for your participation in this.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Here you go Semper, this one is worthless without the pics... 

http://forums.mylargescale.com/16-t...ing-semi-automatic-manual-switch-machine.html


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

I've never done any research but it seems this might be a seasonal topic. Winter, cabin fever, cranky, irritable, kicking any can, etc. I think some it is navel gazing as well. At a minimum it's recreational bitching. Nothing wrong with it at all. We're all very fond of it on occasion. A lot of time could be saved if all the past ones' of these links could be put in a sticky. Then we could just add posts to those instead of creating yet another one. Every time the, "(..future of, etc.) MLS" comes up, IMHO, there is way too much navel gazing. 

Of all forum participants (MLS, etc.) there are universals that apply to any forum and or topic)
95%+ never search the internet for the information they're looking for.
95%+ never search the or a forum for the information they're looking for.
95%+ think the other guy is an idiot. (might be 100%; never searched for that one.)

At the bottom of every MLS forum topic page is a list of "Similar Thread" . A great and wealth of information. Nobody seems to know about much less use it. 

One of the German live steam forums lets anyone join. Their requirement? You contribute from time to time or you are dropped. Some types of content is limited to members. It's a great formula. It's a German forum.

No one forum is going to satisfy all wants, needs and desires. Get what you can or need out of any forum. Visit a lot of forums. Contribute if you have something to contribute. Don't waste everyone's time by not looking for what you want first, and using the forum's resources before asking a question. If you don't it's just being lazy and it's really obvious to the people from whom you're asking for help. And FOR GOD's SAKE don't be cute in your topic titles, i.e., "Improving quality of life" or "Impertinent" - that's really wasting everyone's time. AND THE NUMBER ONE RULE, BE HUMBLE, BE RESPECTFUL, BE CIVIL, BE GRATEFUL. And remember, you are always just one answer away from being a fool. But do not feel bad, take heart. If we aren't willing to be a fool from time-to-time how are any of us going to become the geniuses we are in our own minds?


*About MOTHER; aka VerticalScope*

*Do you know who VerticalScope is and does?*
http://www.verticalscope.com/

*They host vertical markets forums and or websites; Automotive, Technology, Pets, Sports, etc. One is; Hobbies & Collectibles*
_"The rapidly expanding Hobbies & Collectibles group caters to some of the most popular recreational past times and pursuits across a brand range of demographics and countries. From the world's largest luxury watch communities to the passions of remote control car enthusiasts, fashionistas, bargain shoppers, ship aficionados and music fans, our Hobbies & Collectibles Group covers it all. The hottest discussions focus on current trends and industry news giving large brand marketers, retailers and niche vendors unique opportunities to nurture relationships with fans of their brands and enable active hyper-influencers with the best available product information."_

*Complete list of VerticalScope's Hobbies & Collectibles websites;*
Artistforum.com
AustraliaForum.com
AuthenticForum.com
AUSRC.COM
BapeTalk.com
CanadianMoneyForum.com
DiecastAircraftForum.com
DiecastXChange.com
ExpatForum.com
FrugalVillage.com
Heresy-Online.net
HobbyTalk.com
KitForums.com
LGBWorld.com
Librarium-online.com
Maxbashing.com
ModelRailForum.com
ModelTrainforum.com
MyLargeScale.com
PlanetDieCast.com
RCCanada.ca
Scale600.com
ShipsNostalgia.com
SlotForum.com
T-ShirtForums.com
TheWatchsite.com
WatchFreeks.com
WatchTalkForums.info
Wings900.com
WatchUseek.com

Who would ever have thought there would be a WatchUseek.com ? There are similar discoveries awaiting.

*In that list there are other VerticalScope Hobbies & Collectibles MRR websites/forums. * 
Has anyone ever contacted one or more of these (MRR or any) to see if they have the same/similar problems? If and how they resolved (whatever)?

Have you ever been curious about the software that MLS runs on? What it's about and are there 'issues' (25,000 ft type) at the root?

The software (listed at the bottom of every webpage) is vBulletin a product of vBadvanced.com. vBadvanced is one of several software platforms VerticalScope uses for individual vertical market properties. 

x09-09-2014 vBalanced posted the following announcement;
*vBadvanced No Longer Officially Supported*
http://www.vbadvanced.com/forum/showthread.php?50767-vBadvanced-No-Longer-Officially-Supported
_"It is with a bit of a heavy heart that I would like to announce that vBadvanced can no longer be officially supported. I know official support has waned over the last few years, but I have still tried my best to keep up with things while trying to earn a living and keep my bills paid. These days, vBulletin is not the same software that it once was, and it is no longer something that I can base my livelihood on as I once could. I feel extremely blessed and must say that I thoroughly enjoyed my days where my only concern was creating vBulletin add-ons and helping to support some absolutely amazing forum owners. The internet has changed drastically over the last few years though, and I feel it's "officially" time for me to move on as well. I had thoughts of evolving vBadvanced and turning our products into stand-alone software in order to keep things going, but I suppose that wasn't vBadvanced's destiny. I've recently started a new full-time position with a local company where I'll be responsible for creating software that helps to raise many millions of dollars for various charity organizations each year. It's hard to say no to an opportunity like that, and so I plan to do my best and devote my full attention to this new position.

With that said, I do still intend to keep vBadvanced.com live for as long as I can and while it's at least making enough money to keep the servers live. Just a couple of sales a month will cover that at this point. Without trying to brag, I know vBadvanced CMPS has been one of the most popular forum add-ons ever created and I would like to continue to make our products available to vB3 and vB4 forum owners for as long as possible. At the same time, I feel it's a matter of integrity to keep our customers informed, so I wanted to make this announcement to let our customers know that vBadvanced products should be considered EOL (end of life). I would like to truly thank each and every one of our customers that have made vBadvanced possible."
_

vBadvanced appears to be well entrenched with third parties continuing to support its products with tweaks and addons. This just shows it's old, it was old before it became old. It's like COBOL or Fortran. 

If MLS had migrated to a major player platform while Shad had it it probably would not have had a lot of these problems. Yahoo Groups being the most prominent at the time. (Keep you rants on Yahoo, please. They're a waste of time, we all know about them. Everyone and thing has problems. What's your point.) Doesn't mean another host/software platform wouldn't have other issues but there would be a better god to look after things. By no means does another platform mean some one or more would not have bitched at something. Sometimes it's not about the thing.

End of rant. Thank you for reading if you made it this far.  Don't throw rocks cause then I won't be able to feed a couple of big hairy dogs and then they will come to feed on you.  Promise!


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris Scott said:


> *In that list there are other VerticalScope Hobbies & Collectibles MRR websites/forums. *
> Has anyone ever contacted one or more of these (MRR or any) to see if they have the same/similar problems? If and how they resolved (whatever)?


I am a long-time active moderator (7+ years) on another Vertical Scope forum..
it has had had zero issues like this..totally smooth, runs fine, moderators keep things in line and admins are almost never needed. And when admins are needed, they are quick to respond and easy to work with.
Night and day compared to here, not a single complaint. Wouldn't even know its the same company.

Scot


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

So, I also received a reply on my message from Natalie, the same person Nate received one from. The reply was positive, and the answers, while vague; where what you expect them to be at this point in the process. That DOES NOT mean a bad thing.

So, two people (and possibly more) receiving a reply from the same person at roughly the same time shows that we can get results. We simply need to get the membership to participate to help further the effort.

Chris


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Scottychaos said:


> I am a long-time active moderator (7+ years) on another Vertical Scope forum..
> it has had had zero issues like this..totally smooth, runs fine, moderators keep things in line and admins are almost never needed. And when admins are needed, they are quick to respond and easy to work with.
> Night and day compared to here, not a single complaint. Wouldn't even know its the same company.
> 
> Scot


That's one interesting data point. Statistically speaking, need more data, more data, more data.

If you can reveal without getting shot or having to kill all of us...

Is the other forum you moderate in the Hobbies and Collectibles vertical market ? Can you reveal the vertical market and or the forum ? 

Does the evolution of the forum you moderate have any parallels to MLS' evolution ? Was the other forum originally one person, garage founded and operated ?

What is the software platform of the other forum, is it vBadvanced ? Has it always used the same software platform. If not, what platform(s) 

Is the role of a moderator the same on the other forum(s) ? How may forums do you moderate ? Do moderators go thru training ?

Is there a forum for moderators ?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris Scott said:


> That's one interesting data point. Statistically speaking, need more data, more data, more data.
> 
> If you can reveal without getting shot or having to kill all of us...


Sure, I don't think anyone will mind..it is:

http://www.snowblowerforum.com/



Chris Scott said:


> Is the other forum you moderate in the Hobbies and Collectibles vertical market ?


Unknown, but probably not.



Chris Scott said:


> Does the evolution of the forum you moderate have any parallels to MLS' evolution ?


Probably not. I dont know the details around the earlier days of the forum, it was formed in early 2009, and I have been a member since late 2010, a year and a half later. I would suspect it was probably started up by Vertical scope from scratch.




Chris Scott said:


> Was the other forum originally one person, garage founded and operated ?


Probably not..see post above.



Chris Scott said:


> What is the software platform of the other forum, is it vBadvanced ? Has it always used the same software platform. If not, what platform(s)


Unknown..not sure where to find that.



Chris Scott said:


> Is the role of a moderator the same on the other forum(s) ?


Yes, pretty much identical to MLS. Moderators (volunteers, regular forum members with enhanced access) run the day-to-day issues, Admins (Vertical scope employees) are basically absent unless we call one in for some reason. The admins on that forum have traditionally been very helpful and polite..we have asked them for things like the creation of new sub-forums, and they have created them for us quickly and with no fuss. We can get an admin quickly, all we have to do is ask.



Chris Scott said:


> How may forums do you moderate ?


The entirety of the site, all sub forums. There are about six active moderators.



Chris Scott said:


> Do moderators go thru training ?


no, none.



Chris Scott said:


> Is there a forum for moderators ?


yes, there is a moderator-only area.

Scot


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Nice writeup... small typo: first sentence after #4... "following suite" should be "following suit" ...
> 
> If I was being really picky, the last sentence, the first comma is superfluous. Also, you never begin a sentence with and.
> 
> ...


And (sorry, Greg), to be really, really picky, web pages are known as a SITE (location), not SIGHT (something seen) (a pet peeve of mine.)

Michael


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I, too, received a reply from Natalie and have been trying to respond via the Private Message system... to no avail... I can enter the message and click the "Send Message" button and all that happens is the message disappears. But it does not appear in the list of messages, nor as part of that conversation.

So, since I cannot seem to answer that way... here is my response to Natalie's request for what went missing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aside from the loss of the original method to access the 1st class storage space a long time ago and members having to be tutored in how to do FTP access, and aside from the debacle over this last weekend when EVERYBODY lost access to the 1st class storage space by any means at all, presently we are back to the main problem... that being the loss of data by any 1st class member whose user ID begins with the letter "T" through "Z".

A quick calculation on my part shows that there are over 1380 members with user names that fall in those categories. Granted, not all of those members are "1st class" members, and not all of the 1st class members made use of the 1st class storage space, but those that did lose data were devastated by the loss.


In a quick look through things I found the following examples of threads affected by the loss of images:

http://forums.mylargescale.com/12-railroad-operations/28296-pics-inspire.html

http://forums.mylargescale.com/16-track-trestles-bridges-roadbed/21841-last-if-frontier-pt3.html

http://forums.mylargescale.com/16-t...ing-semi-automatic-manual-switch-machine.html 

http://forums.mylargescale.com/21-rolling-stock/26392-dream-come-true.html

http://forums.mylargescale.com/11-public-forum/65906-automobile-railcar-conversions.html

http://forums.mylargescale.com/13-indoor-railways/56514-angry-beaver-logging-railway-micro.html


Here is a list of several threads concerning the loss of data (to show the angst that this has caused):

11/22/2016 http://forums.mylargescale.com/11-p...y-1st-class-photo-hosting-no-longer-work.html

11/27/2016 http://forums.mylargescale.com/32-f...3058-can-t-access-my-1st-class-web-space.html

02/08/2017 http://forums.mylargescale.com/32-forum-site-issues-questions/76546-how-message-admin.html

02/19/2017 http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/76961-what-going-mls.html

02/21/2017 http://forums.mylargescale.com/11-public-forum/77057-future-mls.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot;
Thanks for answering.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

When we join together and focus on the problem at hand and not try to assert ourselves by pointing out punctuation errors, we can actually make a difference.

I have read a very recent post from one of the Moderators about contact from the Admin on what is going on, and an overall improvement of the site. That shows some signs of hope for the future.

Chris


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chris, it's not to assert anything.

Studies show the best impact is clear writing with no errors.

The errors tend to distract the reader from the message, consciously or sub-consciously, and in this case we want the maximum impact in EVERY message to the "owners" or whoever will help get these things fixed.

Regards, Greg


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Except the owners understood the message and responded in kind. Even with any errors that you so graciously felt the need to point out. And like so many times in the past, you have now successfully taken away from the effectiveness of this thread.

Sometimes, it is not hard to understand why your tag line reads the way it does.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chris, yes I am high profile... but maybe you could not "poke the bear" in the first place.

You are not innocent in starting this conversation yourself. The "asserting yourself" accusation was not necessary, but if you feel compelled to criticize, be prepared for a response. 

My post was indeed to try to maximize effectiveness. It was polite. Yours was to criticize me. Now who is asserting themselves? 

Think about it.

Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris,

On this one, I have to agree with Greg and his "pickyness" (sp) with spelling, punctuation and rules of grammar. I was taught by my late Dad (a businessman for over sixty years) that when I write a letter to a company or organization, that I make sure of the spelling/grammar/punctuation in the letter. I still do that today. When I write a post, I try very hard to get it correct. I will use a dictionary to check some spelling and check some grammar error that might be there. I'm also 73 years old and sometimes memory fails (aka "brain fart"). 

Greg and I don't always see "eye to eye" on some issues. But in this one, in my oh so humble opinion, he is correct. First impressions in a face to face meeting OR a letter, last forever. There is no "getting that back" or a "do-over".


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg,

Your very first reply to this thread was a complaint about it.

This thread was not titled "Please Correct my Grammar" Nor, did I ever provide a hint that is what I wanted done. But as in the past, you managed to find someone's mistake and felt the need to publicly point it out. But as you usually say in your own defense "just pointing out facts"

So, now that the effectiveness of this thread has been killed. I will just have it locked.

Thanks,
Chris


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

gust have a maderator detete all the unralated posts (iclnuding this one)

no meed to lock the thread in my opinion.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

When we are talking about putting our "best foot forward" in writing messages to Vertical Scope, of course constructive criticism when it comes to spelling and grammar is a good and valid thing. We want to look as good as we possibly can. Nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes IMO, in a case like this. It can only help our cause.
No need to get all offended, it's for the greater good.

Scot


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmph! I just stopped by to see the old place. (*Sigh) too bad...


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Things appear to have changed here during my absence. 

Yet, the members here still provide valuable assistance. 

Thanx, guys!


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