# Steam whisperer gets it done....



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The TRS shops now are associated with four AC-12 that have been modified. Another completed project with a few highlights of what is done on a retrofitted Cab forward, more can be seen on our website (lots going on):

 TRS Shop work


A couple of shop shots with new parts: the rear engine with new dog bone oiler, steam lines, improved crossheads, suspension work and combination levers. Next to the engine is the front pilot with guide springs for better tracking 










Reinforced pieces for each engine to tie into the boiler shell (two straps just behind the large smokebox shield and two for the front engine toward the middle of the shell)









Completed backhead with new larger oiler, steam heater valve/line, and jet inserts allowing for better quicker burn 











Setup for test run 











Test running



Completed with a typical "out of the shops" clean look, did not last long! 











Stop by Mike Moore's track on Saturday during the ECLSTS to see it in action. There is one more aspect of this retro build that will evident only there at the show!


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

The dual feed to the oiler and all the piping is interesting. All is amazing work.







And here I thought I was cool







because I installed a Summerland chuffer on my loco.


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Charles, 
Nice work and pictures. 
What other projects do you have going? 

jim


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim
The shop has a variety of work ongoing: two 0-4-0's, two more cab forwards, 2 Aster kits, Aster Schools, Aster Grasshopper, DJB Ruby conversion, Accucraft f4/f5, Accucraft S-12, 2 Roundhouse locomotives from what I remember on the work list. We are working on a very limited production run of converted AC-12 to AC-6. We will post some photos from ECLSTS this weekend on the prototype of the AC-6 production. A second conversion is a AC-12 to AC-9/Yellowstone (coal fired). Also, retrofitting a N & W J class 611 to coal fired live steam. In the future we have plans for a PRR D16sb 4-4-0 along with PRR ten wheeler builds. 

Ryan and I hope to see you at NSS!


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Have to admit my confusion looking at this and past TRS pics (for mods to my CF). I cannot figure out how the lubricatoer works. It looks like two lines are outputs each lines to the cylinders where the steam oil is mixed with the steam just before it enters the cylinders (per TRS' methodology). I cannot see a feed into the lubricator from the backhead/cab lines. How is the lubricator a displacement type lubricator?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Chris, 
Perhaps it is too early in the morning and you haven't quite woken up yet, as I am sure that you know the answer. 
A displacement lubricator does NOT require a feed. 
The delivery pipe acts in both directions. 
Steam enters, is condensed and displaces some oil back down the line. 
I have always wondered HOW the oil manages to go one way and the steam comes the other, BUT it does. 
Some displacement lubricators DO have a feed, but that is normally just to get them started, especially when there is a long way for the oil to travel. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 24 Mar 2010 11:18 AM 
Chris, 
Perhaps it is too early in the morning and you haven't quite woken up yet, as I am sure that you know the answer. 
A displacement lubricator does NOT require a feed. 
The delivery pipe acts in both directions. 
Steam enters, is condensed and displaces some oil back down the line.
I have always wondered HOW the oil manages to go one way and the steam comes the other, BUT it does. 
Some displacement lubricators DO have a feed, but that is normally just to get them started, especially when there is a long way for the oil to travel. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada 

David: 

David:

By "feed" I meant the "steam in" line to the lubricator; steam in line for any displacement type (metered, Accucraft pipe at side, etc.) lubricator (pic below) :











In the AC12 above, which line of the two or is there another steam in line to TRS's lubricator? 

Chris


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, 

I believe you are thinking of a Hydrostatic lubricator, which this is not, but hydro lubricators have a separate steam feed that meters the flow and mixture of oil-water in the lubricator lines. 

This particular lubricator is of the non-metered deadleg type (no steam feed), whereas in the past you may have seen out metered style, which has the same arrangement in the cab, but uses two metering valves (needle valves) placed just aft of the pilot truck. The meters on our lubricator control not only the amount of steam entering the lubricator, but also the amount of oil going to the engines, which is particularly useful in keeping the oil in the cylinders, rather than all over the engine. 

I should note that the lubricator has been increased by 60%, allowing the engine to be run for upwards of 4 hours before needing to refill the lubricator. Compare this to the OEM lubricator that lasts only 20-25min, depending on the rate of speed and load. The OEM pass through also does not allow equal distribution of oil to both sets of cylinders, as steam will take the path of least resistance (this being the front engine due to the steam tee arrangement + limiting valve). 

The oil delivery lines are 1/8" OD up to the center of the locomotive (rear engine pivot point), where each one steps down to 1/16" OD lines, to further meter the oil and for ease of installation. A 1/16" line is easier to work with and can be positioned almost anywhere, whereas the 1/8" is a bit too bulky. 

*Edit:

THe picture you have is of a pass-through lubricator. 

I am using this concept of a roscoe dead-leg style (stretched out a bit):









Each engine has it's own steam delivery/oil return line, so just add one more steam chest to the diagram above and that is how it works.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, 
The Accucraft C-16s use a displacement lubricator - looks like an air tank. If you search the archives (try something like "site:mylargescale.com mylargescale.com C-16 lubricator" at Google,) you'll find plenty of comments in the 2002-2005 era when we were modifying them!


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Excellent work Charles and Ryan. Thanks for sharing. I don't remember an N&W J. Who made it and when?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

John
Think south of the Mason Dixon Line....then SG followed by O Winston Link. Well, I could not resist that...Samhongsa imported the model for Garden Railways International in the 1980's (I need to find my manual):


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

John, 

There were ~60 (give or take a few) of the Samhongsa N&W J class made. They varied from #611 (I believe the larger portion of the run) all the way to #600 with it's as-built shop look with; Multiple Bearing crossheads, spoked pilot wheels, dual intermediate rods, etc. 

They do pop up on ebay from time to time, but I have not seen any in the past year or two. Most are shelf queens, although they are stoutly-built electric models with dial canon coreless motors driving a bevel gearbox. There are such refinements on the base model as ball bearings on the axle journals, fully functional valve gear, modular construction (boiler shell is held on by 4 screws) along with copious space for a boiler and firebox, keeping in tune with the huge size of the prototype (J's had 109 sq ft fireboxes, very large for a eastern 4-8-4)!


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rbednarik on 24 Mar 2010 09:14 PM 
John, 

There were ~60 (give or take a few) of the Samhongsa N&W J class made. They varied from #611 (I believe the larger portion of the run) all the way to #600 with it's as-built shop look with; Multiple Bearing crossheads, spoked pilot wheels, dual intermediate rods, etc. 

They do pop up on ebay from time to time, but I have not seen any in the past year or two. Most are shelf queens, although they are stoutly-built electric models with dial canon coreless motors driving a bevel gearbox. There are such refinements on the base model as ball bearings on the axle journals, fully functional valve gear, modular construction (boiler shell is held on by 4 screws) along with copious space for a boiler and firebox, keeping in tune with the huge size of the prototype (J's had 109 sq ft fireboxes, very large for a eastern 4-8-4)! 
Ok cool. Thanks Ryan. I was familian with the electric one sort of as I had seen one before. So you guys are converting an electric to a coal fired live steam. That should be an 'interesting' project. I want to see that one run when you get it finished.
jf


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

As Dan Pantages would say... "Another Northern"


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim
Not just "another Northern"..."_The Northern_" (IMHO along with a few others based on stats and design). When operating at maximum pressure, the Js delivered 80,000 lbf of tractive effort – the most powerful for 4-8-4 wheel arrangement locomotive without a booster. The Js were among the most reliable engines, running as many as 15,000 miles per month, even on the mountainous and relatively short route of the N&W. Her counterbalancing and precision mechanics were so state of the art that it is often said that the J's top speed is only limited by the nerves of the engineer. Judging by their performance in hauling a 10-car 1050-ton train at speeds in excess of 110 mph over Pennsylvania Railroad's "racetrack", the Fort Wayne Division, while on loan, it is hard to argue that claim. Here is an interesting read that utilized J 611:



Coal fired locomotives vs. Diesel- 2006 paper


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 26 Mar 2010 10:24 AM 
Not just "another Northern"..."_The Northern_" 


Of course, down south of the Mason-Dixon line, they weren't particularly fond of the word "Northern"! Most southern roads came up with their own names for the 4-8-4 type, but on the N&W, they were simply known as "J's".


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

A video clip of Charlie's retrofitted AC-12 running at ECLSTS this past weekend.

A final upgrade was the weather look of a locomotive in service vs museum static presentation.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

*Wow, that is beautiful. *


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve
Thanks for the recognition. Sometimes a look at the beginning then the finish brings about a perspective of how things turned out. I know to things to be sure, Charlie was highly impressed with the engine's "Aster like" performance along with the in service looks:





















A prior weathered AC-12 a bit more road wary


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Found a web site with great photos of SP's history of their 2-8-8-2 locomotices; photos are available to buy. 

http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/sp37.htm


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Chris, those are some awesome photos. Very interesting to learn that some of the early monster 2 - 8 - 8 - 2's were later converted to Cab Forwards.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 29 Mar 2010 10:45 PM 
Thanks Chris, those are some awesome photos. Very interesting to learn that some of the early monster 2 - 8 - 8 - 2's were later converted to Cab Forwards.


Have you ever seen photos of the protective gard engineers and firemen had to wear with standard locos going through all those Seria tunnels and snow sheds to protect them from the loco exhaust smoke? Sorry I don't have a reference for you, just believe they were horrendous! No wonder they were very adament about making them cab forwards.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Earth to Mars.....get me out of here!


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Yup, looks like 50's Sci-Fi to me.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By CapeCodSteam on 30 Mar 2010 03:51 PM 
Yup, looks like 50's Sci-Fi to me. 

Just where did you think the 50's Sci-Fi illustrators and movie prop folk got ideas for what the future would look like?


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Can you imagine how tough it must have been running through the tunnels before the Cab Forwards. Not just having to wear all that gear so you could breath, but think how hard it must have been to see. Not much light to begin with, but then add all the smoke. I do not think there was anything easy about running any of these steam beasts back in the day.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 30 Mar 2010 06:02 PM 
Can you imagine how tough it must have been running through the tunnels before the Cab Forwards. Not just having to wear all that gear so you could breath, but think how hard it must have been to see. Not much light to begin with, but then add all the smoke. I do not think there was anything easy about running any of these steam beasts back in the day.


I have read many stories from the men that ran steam thru tunnels where they would wet down their handkerchiefs to cover their faces with them and then lay on the floor of the cab while in the tunnel... think about that... nobody watching where they are going until they get out of the tunnel and can recover enough to get up and look out the window to see if there is anything on the track ahead!


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

The couple of times that I have been in the cab of a large North American locomotive, I am just surprised as to how little you can really see of the track ahead, period! 
Let alone smoke and in a tunnel. 
Being in a cab forward must have been very different. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is an interesting view of a cab forward:
http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t33801.html


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