# Help for mason boggies



## Bender (Apr 16, 2013)

Hello everybody! 
I ve just received my san Juan mason boggie and want to know what is the regular things to do before and after running it? Also if There is something to know about it ( some particular advises let me know! 
Thanks!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I haven't fired mine up yet either. 
Bender, Do you have the axle water pump? I do. 

Andrew


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

There were very informative threads on the Mason when they came out. Aside from the normal lubricating watch your water. Adding water at regular intervals with a goodall valve or pump is necessary as the boiler only holds about 125mls of water. I don't care too much for axle pumps as I feel they draw power from the engine and tend to loose a little speed. I built a water car in a Drovers Caboose with a Regner water pump, battery operated, and can get runs up to 45 minutes. www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf865g9FlrI


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Do pretty much what you normally do. The reversing is the bar across the top of the engine, be sure to lube all the connections there. Lots of things can be done to "improve" it. 

Mine has the axle pump. Got it set properly once time. Found had to refill the tender twice to last through the gas.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Im trying to be nit-picky..but if you are searching for info about it on the internet, it helps if it's spelled correctly!  
easier to find info that way.. 
It's Mason Bogie. 

Scot


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I was going to say something but just had a chuckle at how that is pronounced instead. 

Andrew


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

1 - lube the locomotive with a good machine oil (I use 3in1 in the BLUE can, not the red can). Lay the loco on it's side and lube the journals - drivers, pilot wheels, trailing wheels, and LUBE THE ECCENTRICS!!!! Also lube any pivot points/links between the frame you can't reach once the loco is on the track. Flip it on the other side and repeat. 

2 - put it on the track, fill the tank with gas and the boiler with water. Put the reverser in neutral, make sure the throttle is closed. Close the axle pump bypass valve if you have one. Light her off and adjust the gas so the fire "pops back" into the flue - no flames coming out of the smokebox. You don't need a roaring fire as that can heat things up too much and damage the smokebox. Patience. 

3 - while steam pressure builds, fill the lubricator with steam oil. Finish lubing around on the outside. Put a small drop of oil on everything that moves/pivots... crank pins and side rods, valve gear, crossheads, etc. 

3 - I usually wait until I have at least 40 lbs of pressure. Some like to wait until the safety valve lifts. At this point, you have the option to shut down the fire, top off the gas tank, and relight. This will replenish the gas used to build steam pressure and give you a longer run time. 

4 - put the reversing lever in forward and crack the throttle. The locomotive will spit and lurch slightly as the cylinders clear themselves of water and heat up. After a moment or two, the locomotive will begin to move slowly and smoothly. Close the throttle and couple any rolling stock you plan to pull. 

5 - let her go and enjoy the run. If you have an axle pump, fiddle with the bypass valve and try to find the "sweet spot" where just enough water is being injected into the boiler to meet demand and the water level remains fairly constant. On mine, it's around 1/8th of a turn open. Axle pump or not, MONITOR THE WATER LEVEL every three laps or so, both in the boiler and, if you have an axle pump, in the water bunker. Make sure it runs out of gas before running out of water.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

I would add aspects to Dwight's list:


1) After filling the gas tank, bleed off the liquid to prevent the build up in the smoke box thus a fire that does not "pop" back onto the burner
2) After filling move your locomotive from the fill point to prevent a "fireball" from happening due to gas vapors that can accumulate around the exterior of the locomotive
3) Distilled water


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## Bender (Apr 16, 2013)

Hello ! 
wahouu!! It is so kind of you all to answer my questions!! Yes I have an axle pump... Dwight, is it possible to stop the locomotive for refilling? And what I must do for that? 
Charles thanks for your fine advises! I will write all your comments Dwight , Garratt, Scott, ironton and Nick so I will better see with the locomotive on my eyes!... 
Thanks again!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes you can stop the loco to add water to the boiler or the bunker. Most do. You can even refill the gas tank provided you shut off the fire first and relight after. To stop simply close the throttle. For extended stops you can also place the reverser in neutral. After an extended stop the cylinders might need to clear themselves again if they cooled down too much. That's normal.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks guys. I had not realized you need to top up the bunker during one fuel up. 
Perhaps another item for the check list: 

1) Wear sunglasses when lighting up incorrectly so your eyebrows don't get singed. Ha ha! 

Andrew


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

You don't need a roaring fire as that can heat things up too much and damage the smokebox. Patience. I thought I'd emphasize this point. I don't know if this is your first live steam locomotive or not, but a common mistake with beginners (myself included) is to be in too big a hurry to get steam pressure up, so they crank up the fire way too high so it's roaring like a lion. This can cause damage, especially to the paint on the smokebox. You should be able to hear the fire, but it shouldn't be excessively loud and roaring. It can take several minutes for enough pressure to build to lift the safety, especially if it's a cold day or if it's the first run of the day and the locomotive is completely cold. Not only does the water have to reach boiling temperature, but all the metal of the boiler and surrounding parts has to heat up as well. Be patient... it will build pressure soon enough, and you won't risk damage to your new little jewel.


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## Bender (Apr 16, 2013)

Dwight This is my first live steam...regarding to the fire i think I undersrand what you mean..correct me if i' m wrong but the fire Will be regulate in first by the gas throttle and if I refer to the manual inside the mason bogie ' s box they tell to open very little the throttle?... 
Also There is a little controller under the locomotive just under the oil box can you let me know if it is just to empty the oil and if yes when it Will be usefull to do That? 
Thanks again !


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Bender - The fire will be regulated by the gas valve - the black knob facing forward that exits the gas tank (never heard it called a "throttle" before, a term generally applied only to the steam regulator valve to the cylinders). What I'm saying is that less is better than more. If you open the smokebox door on the front of the locomotive (the smokebox is just forward of the boiler where the smokestack connects), you can look down the flue (the tube inside the boiler) and see the flame at the back. It will take a little trial and error on your part to find the fire level that will be adequate to build steam pressure while at the same time not being high enough to cause problems. Again, less is better. Don't be afraid to set the fire low and wait for pressure to build. After you've experimented a little, you'll get a feel for how much gas is necessary.

The little control you refer to under the lubricator (its proper name) is indeed a drain valve. The full name is "displacement lubricator." As the locomotive runs, steam enters the lubricator via a small hole in the steam line where it passes through the lubricator. Once inside, the steam condenses into water, which sinks to the bottom (since oil floats on water), "displacing" a small amount of the steam oil (hence the name "displacement lubricator"). The steam oil consequently rises, replacing the steam lost to the lubricator, and entering the steam line through the same small hole. It is carried to the cylinders and valves. Over the course of the run, most, if not all, of the steam oil is used up and one if left with a lubricator full of primarily dirty water.

Back to the drain valve. Myself, I never use them. I have one of Accucraft's Metal Syringes which I use to suck out the dirty water, and I find this far simpler than farting with the valve. The drain valve works best if there's still a little pressure left in the boiler when the valve is opened - less than 10 lbs.

My advice would be to attend a local steamup if any are held near to you. There's nothing like a little "hands on" instruction.


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## Bender (Apr 16, 2013)

Thanks Dwight ! Sorry for the wrong words it present some problems for me to translate them in english!...your explanations however are quite clear and This Will help me ! 
Your right about a live steam event but in France There are very scarce as This hobby is not very well know .. 
I have a friend who have produced and built american 's locomotives kits during the 1980 's years and plan to show him the locomotive but i prefere having some good advises before from men who are practice now and perfectly know the model because he is living far from me!... 
So Your experience is unvaluable for me ... 
Thanks again for your patience!..


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Happy to help you out Bender.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Happy to help you out Bender.









By the way, here is the *Accucraft metal syringe* I use to suck out the dirty water from the lubricator after a run. It's available via their web site.

Do you have steam oil?


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## Bender (Apr 16, 2013)

Hello Dwight ! 
No i have nothing for the Time , just the brand new locomotive !.. So I have 2 questions about the oil.. 
Where do you put the sringe if not by the drain valve? 
There is a " controller" ( sorry for the wrong word) in brass on the lubricator ; mine is open With 8 turns ( completly open) ; I think I have to close it a little ? I also think This is a regulator for the oil?... 
I can also easy find steam oil because There is;( only) 2 live steam sellers in France ... 
Thanks again Dwight !


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Back to the drain valve. Myself, I never use them. I have one of Accucraft's Metal Syringes which I use to suck out the dirty water, and I find this far simpler than farting with the valve. The drain valve works best if there's still a little pressure left in the boiler when the valve is opened - less than 10 lbs. 
Dwight (and Bender), 
We had a long discussion about the drain valves a few months (years?) ago. The concensus was to NOT blow the water and oil out "when there is a little pressure in the boiler", as you put it. That justs wastes oil and makes a mess. 

Bender, as we are on the topic of cooling down (and you may have covered this above,) when you stop running and turn off the gas to kill the fire, you should open the throttle or the boiler blow-down (may be on the other side from the lubricator drain - I'm not familiar with the Mason Bogie.) This lets the steam out and (more important) stops the cooling boiler from drawing steam oil from the lubricator back into the boiler. 

Now back to the lubricator drain. . . I let my locos cool down completely, then I take the cap off the lubricator, place a paper towel under the drain, and open it. The water under the oil will run out, and eventually you will see oil start to slowly oooze out. Close the drain and refill the lubricator.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a " controller" ( sorry for the wrong word) in brass on the lubricator ; mine is open With 8 turns ( completly open) ; I think I have to close it a little ? I also think This is a regulator for the oil?... 
Yes, that is the 'regulator' valve for the oil. It isn't usually fully open - they set them at the factory. 

Be cautious when closing the valve. You do not want to starve the cylinders of oil. Most Accucraft locos use too much oil and it is thrown out of the stack (chimney) with the steam. It accumulates all over the engine - very messy - but safer than not having enough oil working through the loco. 

My loco uses about 1/2 of the lubricator in a typical run (30-45mins). See how much water comes out when you finish a run, and how much oil has to be put in when you are done and then carefully close the valve (maybe 1/2 turn) and see how much oil it uses next time.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

We had a long discussion about the drain valves a few months (years?) ago. The concensus was to NOT blow the water and oil out "when there is a little pressure in the boiler", as you put it. That justs wastes oil and makes a mess. Pete - in my experience there is very little to no oil left in an Accucraft locomotive after a run. I have oil remaining probably less than 5% of the time unless it was a very short run. And steam oil is cheap enough that I'm not going to worry about a couple of pennies worth. Besides, like I said, I don't use the drains anyway as I prefer to keep things simple. 

Bender - I take the top off the lubricator, stick the "needle part" of the syringe into the lubricator until it hits bottom, and suck everything out. The syringe also has the advantage that if there IS any oil remaining, the plunger on the syringe offers substantially greater resistance when you hit it and start trying to suck it up, so Pete's "waste" problem is solved at the same time... you simply stop once resistance increases. 

There should be instructions somewhere on the initial setting for the lubricator's oil regulator valve.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

there is very little to no oil left in an Accucraft locomotive after a run 
That's assuming you run until it stops ;-) 
If you are just testing the burner, or fiddling with the water feed, you may end up with a lot of oil and not much water. Anyway, Chacun a son gout, as Bender would say! 


take the top off the lubricator, stick the "needle part" of the syringe into the lubricator until it hits bottom, and suck everything out. 
Several Accucraft locos don't have a drain, so this technique is actually quite common. I have a syringe set up that way.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Several Accucraft locos don't have a drain, so this technique is actually quite common. I have a syringe set up that way.Which is exactly why I got used to doing it this way and don't bother using the drains even if the loco has one. hehehe


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## Bender (Apr 16, 2013)

I see There is a few methods for the oil ... Dwight , There is a screw at the top of the lubricator , i Will try to use it as you said...Pete i undersrand the method for seeing what Will be the use of the oil in the locomotive run..i Will see That also ! I have now opening the oil valve to 7 turns as the completly opening seem to be 11 or 12 turns in fact!.. 
With your both advises I think I Will be ready to run!... 
I Will ask if There is something else!.. 
Thanks a lot gentlemen!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I have now opening the oil valve to 7 turns as the completely opening seem to be 11 or 12 turns in fact!.. This will work okay, especially for the first few runs while breaking things in, but if memory serves, Accucraft recommends opening the adjustment valve by approx 2 turns.


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## Bender (Apr 16, 2013)

The problem Dwight is that accucraft say nothing about the differents oils valves and the maintenance after running on their explanations!.that´s why i ask a lots of questions about that...let me know if you have something better about the turn of the valve!... 
Thanks!


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

I noticed a comment about opening the throttle while the engine cools down. This raises a question. Is it good practice? 

I was told by experienced steamers that if you open the throttle while the engine is cooling and there is oil in the lubricator it could be sucked back into the boiler. One thing you do not want is oil in the boiler. Is this better practice? 

I have installed goodall valves in all my locos just so the boiler can suck air through them. I keep the throttle closed. The goodall is also used to add water, but is not needed on the shay or the Mason Bogie for that purpose as the have tender pumps. 

I usually cut the bottom of a paper cup off so it will slide under the lubricator on those locos which have a drain. At the end of the run just slide the bottom under the drain and open it until the oil comes out. When I do this I feel I can open the throttle as the oil left in the lubricator is below the hole and will not get sucked into the boiler.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

For better or worser...engines with tender pumps or axle pumps will self fill from the tender as the boiler cools. mine tend to over fill leaving little or no steam space.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I noticed a comment about opening the throttle while the engine cools down. This raises a question. Is it good practice? 

AGHH - Sorry - NO it is not good practice - whatever that idiot may have said above. I meant crack open the blowdown or the water filler. If you open the throttle, then oil will get pulled back in to the boiler. Sorry Bender - my mistake/mistype.


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## Bender (Apr 16, 2013)

Ok gentlemens !


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