# Diamond plate brass



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Does anyone know a source for sheet brass with a diamond plate pattern on it? I know I've seen this before, but searching the web I can't find anything. I'd prefer the free machining "360" alloy of brass if possible.


Alternatively, I guess I could "cut" a pattern into the brass, but this would only be an approximation, and would be quite time consuming.

Thanks,
Mark


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Mark, 
Have you looked at the K&S (Special Shapes) #2782 and #2783 Small and Large Etched Diamond Plate. 
Too thin to use structurally, so you would need to solder it to some thicker brass. 
Also, only 6 3/4" x 1 1/4" of usable etch! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## Tim Hytrek (Jan 2, 2008)

I tried to get some from K&S about a year ago. Was told it was discontinued, and to find some meant seeing if a distributor had some old stock laying around. I never found any.


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I get from E M A Model Supplies Ltd in England--ema-models.com It is quite thin, so I epoxied it to some brass backing sheet. 

Larry


----------



## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark; 
Try Airconnection.com They are located up in Ontario Canada. It is a military model site but he has a large varity of etched diamond plate, grills, etc. You will have to search around the site to find it. A little difficult at times. I got some diamond etched plate from him of a 7/8ths project. Beautiful stuff. 
Noel


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Noel, 
Actually, it appears to be .on.ca, and NOT .com, but I found it.: 
http://www.airconnection.on.ca/airconnection_ABER_MESH.htm 
Lots of choices by the looks of it. 
Thanks for the information. 
All the best, 
David


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Noel--good site. Thanks. 

Larry


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks Noel! Looks like he has plenty of variety. Too bad he doesn't sell larger sheets. $10 for 2.25"x3.5" sure an't cheap. 

Cheers, 
Mark


----------



## dwegmull (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Mark, 
Have you considered photo-etching? I think we know at least two people with the equipment to do it...


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Considering that this product is a specialized hobby item, I consider the price fair. The sheets I have are photo etched. While I am familiar with the process, I now have neither the access to the necessary equipment nor the inclination to do it myself even if I had. I'm just glad that now I know of two vendors that provide it. 

Larry


----------



## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

Here is another source for larger scale. 
http://www.realtrains.com/locoparts1.html#6 

Dan


----------



## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

*K&S Metals* has a Diamondtread brass suitable for small scale. It is 7" long X 1 1/4" wide and .010" thick. Photo etched it is. *Part Number 02782 Sm. Diamond Plate. They are at www.specialshapes.com .*


----------



## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry, unfortunately Special Shapes/K&S are in a bad period right now. All the lattice/deck plate products are marked "discontinued" on their web site. I've been trying to buy 1/4" and 1/8" brass angle for months, but there is none to be had at any local or on-line hobby shop. I fear for what it will mean for our hobby if they go under. It could be very, very serious.


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Vance, have you checked McMaster-Carr? They carry K&S shapes in the brass section. Being a large outfit, they may still have what you need in stock. Also, Small Parts carries very small milled brass angle-beautiful stuff-, but I don't think it goes up to 1/4". Good Luck. 

Another idea, check out this website out of your area, probably using different distributors--Mike's Hobbies. They are in Rutland VT and are great to do business with. That's where I go for K&S, Evergreen, Floquil, and all the other real modeling stuff. 
Larry


----------



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

K&S order just received for small brass bar stock was only 50% filled.

The others I was told have been out of stock for a LONG TIME.


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark:
Dangerously thinking out loud... Could you machine a couple of lengths of round bar stock with the diamond pattern in relief, one positive the other negative, then roll a brass sheet through them and press or emboss the pattern into the sheet? Seems the diameter of the rollers could be relative small, 1/4"?, 1/2"? Would it be that difficult to cut the rollers with a CNC Lathe? Either diamond or square pattern be easier to cut?

Here's is is a sheet roller from MicroMark that is the basic/crude idea for a embossing that would need some changes so it's a press:











Alterations: A flat bed with the just the two rollers vertically opposite each other. One of the rollers (probably the top one) would need vertical adjustment to allow for different sheet thicknesses. And a hand crank. Maybe this one from MicorMark could be modified? Or used as is with the two embossing rollers?


And of course having made this embossing press you could go into business making sheet for all of us? You would make fortune; well maybe just a small fortune. *;-)) *


----------



## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

How to make a small fortune producing diamond pattern brass sheets ......START WITH A LARGE FORTUNE!!!LOL 
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. 
N


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Chris, 

Interesting you should suggest this. One of the first things I tried was to take a roller from a knurling tool and press/roll it over the surface of a sheet of brass. The knurling tool is sharp, but it did not make marks on the brass with just hand pressure. A jig/press like you show would be required to make an impression on the brass. In addition, the rollers would need to be hardened tool steel (like the knurler I tried). It could certainly be done - and even wide strips would be possible (perhaps 6" wide), though I wonder what the quality of the diamond plate would look like vs photo etching. 

One potential draw back to the roller/press approach is you would have to be careful not to create a curve/bend in the material as it passed through the rollers. Once perfected though, it would be faster and less messy than photo etching. 

I am already planning to produce a variety of parts for our hobby using my CNC. If I wind up building a great tool for making patterned brass I might wind up offering the brass or the tool as well. However, I doubt the small fortune bit....I'll consider it a success if it just covers some of the cost of my CNC equipment. 

Cheers, 
Mark


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Posted By livesteam5629 on 16 Feb 2010 05:19 PM 
How to make a small fortune producing diamond pattern brass sheets ......START WITH A LARGE FORTUNE!!!LOL 
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. 
N 
Sadly it appears there may be some people at K&S who would agree with you. I certainly hope they survive. While I could manage without them, many would not and scratch building of all sorts of models (not just trains) would likely decline.


----------



## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

About a month ago I was at my favorite scratch build supplier (Doug's Trains in Wilmington DE) looking for some K&S angle and channel. None to be had. Doug looked up everything I wanted and it was all discontinued. On the way home I remembered a small airplane shop. Went in and bought out all his stock in angle and channels. I was just lucky. His stock was old and so were his prices. BTW Precision Scale makes etched plate but it is 1/4 inch scale. Old Kemtron stock. I think photo etching in both positive and negative diamond tread would be easier. 
N


----------



## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

Mark,
I made a new roller for my 100mm rolling machine and put a rivit pattern on it for a tender. I was not impressed with the results. It takes a lot of force to make all the plate get thinner except for the small detail that is left standing. It has to be all done in one go as the material will get longer so it will not register for a second run.

Normally with a rolling machine several passes are made to reduce the thickness of the sheet and the work can be put in another way to reduce the tendency to curl. I am interested in this technique and I do not want to discourage your efforts I just wanted to post the problems I had with my attempt.
Dan


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks Dan. Based on what I saw with the knurling tool, I'm not surprised this technique is problematic. Photo etching is likely the way to go, though the rolling machine does have a certain appeal.


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

I know the desire to build it yourself can be exceptionally strong, but me, It'd look into foundries that do or can do this sort of thing. Probably be on a larger scale, the min sheet size not the pattern. I look at it as research, spying?, to find out how they do it then I'd know whether the DIY approach was a windmill.


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Just happened to think, might look into architecture modeling supply sources. 

Another thought, would not heating the sheet to be imbossed be something a foundry or other maker would do?


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Don't get me wrong - I'd much prefer to just order a 0.050" sheet of brass, say 12"x12" with a nice diamond tread pattern from McMaster or where ever. Laminating thin strips of diamond tread onto a thicker sheet isn't going to achieve what I'm looking for....so unfortunately it looks like I will have to improvise. 

I don't know about brass, but I would guess diamond plate aluminum (the stuff in shops and on trucks, etc) is formed/pressed as it cools. Would certainly be interesting to see how it is done.


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Me, I'd also get on the phone to Small Parts and Mac Carr,others with your basic twenty questions (special order? know a source?, etc.) They could be the best source of info. You know, become a detective.


----------

