# The Big Train Show to Become BIGGER, and smaller



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

The Big Train Show is now accepting displays and vendors *from smaller gauges*. I guess you gotta do what you gotta do to keep up in this economy.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I always thought that was wise, to get more converts, I came from baby scales.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Since it pretty much fills the hall in Ontario, I'm concerned that there will be fewer large scale vendors. 

Well, not to agonize, just have to see how it turns out. Obviously they want to sell more space, or charge more for the space they have. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd have to say that an ALL scale train show is preferable to NO train show at all.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Errr...Hmmmm...Wow, rather shocked, but I guess you gotta keep the lights on somehow... 

Wonder if the economic downturn was having an effect of the number of large scale vendors signing up for the event, guess they're opening it up to try to save the show. 

One the one hand I'm glad they're doing what it takes to keep the show afloat, but on the other I'm rather miffed, as I always enjoyed the BTS simply because it was ONLY large scale, and as such it was OUR show, and everyone was always friendly, none of the sour old goat rivet-counting-thats-not-what-I'm-doing-so-it-sucks Grumpzilla's that seam to show up at the smaller scale shows like an unwelcome moth colony in a closet of otherwise nice coats. 

I can only hope that it turns out well, I hope we are still going to have a booth this year. On things for sure, it will certainly be different!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 01/05/2009 12:32 PM
Errr...Hmmmm...Wow, rather shocked, but I guess you gotta keep the lights on somehow... 

Wonder if the economic downturn was having an effect of the number of large scale vendors signing up for the event, guess they're opening it up to try to save the show. 



When I was at the Anaheim show this weekend, the vendors were really discounting the high buck Accucraft stuff (typically $1,500 and up) with discounts on the order of $500-$800+.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Toddalin

Which vendors were doing the discounts on the Accucraft stuff? Engines or rolling stock?


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

All of them.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not surprised vendors were trying to unload the high end stuff while they can, not good to have alot of pricey high-end high-priced inventory just laying around during a recession that could last 1 or 2 years....not good for your overhead. I expect to see alot more vendors stocking the lower-level lower price stuff, its easier to sell during a recession. Be REAL interesting to see how the manufacturers respond to the new marketplace, I think the BTS situation shows some degree of the changes afoot, diversify or perish... 

I'm actually quite surprised that none of that cheap LGB knock-off Newquida stuff hasn't surfaced anywhere else here in the US, of course that could have more to do with the Chinese factory maybe being shut down during the economic poop-hurling festival going on over there right now... 

Gary you might want to make an effort to make the Costa Mesa show coming up, might get some good deals if you have the spare coin, as for me, I'm seriously considering a major downscaling of my loco roster







, just needing to get back to basics, nothing more ominous than that


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 01/05/2009 2:40 PM
as for me, I'm seriously considering a major downscaling of my loco roster







, just needing to get back to basics, nothing more ominous than that












I look for SP equipment.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you will see more shows merging with other scales in order to keep the shows afloat. Later RJD


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh man....this change sucks. If this news is true, the BTS will turn in a small scale train show in two years is my prediction...since there are no train shows in this part of California. There are three other shows in Southern Cal (Del Mar, Anaheim, Ventura)...but they're closer to the coast. The beauty of the BTS was just that....BIG TRAINS....not BIG SHOW.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike,

I hope your prediction doesn't come true, but I have the same gut feeling as you do.


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## Dave H (Jan 5, 2008)

ALL scale train show!!!


We already have the TCA in York Pennsylvania, & Gats (Great American Train show).

Are they going to start selling R/C cars & computers too, like our GATS show did.


I think you are RIGHT, the Big Train Show is doomed.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Dang! This could well be the last "B"ig Train Show for me then, I'll be darned if I am going to travel half way round the world to see small trains. It will be the NGRS in the future, where ere they be.
Now if there was only something else to see around Nebraska.........................................?








Rod


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like Denver will be the place from now on.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry to see that happen! It's kind of nice to attend events that are dedicated to Large Scale only, just as there are a few that are primarily O or some other scale. 

It will be awfully hard for an "all scales" show to compete effectively with the Worlds Greatest Hobby On Tour shows, which really know how to promote their events. The most recent one in Pennsylvania reportedly drew such huge crowds during its two-day run that police had to close some access points on roads leading to the venue and many thousands apparently never made it to the show at all due to the jammed-up traffic. All-scale shows are a dime a dozen in some parts of the country, so the Big Train Show is probably heading on a downhill slide.


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm betting it'll be no time before this becomes the west coast version of the "Big E" train show in New England .... some large scale vendors, a modular or two to be sure, but primarily HO and Lionel. Too bad it's losing its identity; there are PLENTY of shows for smaller scale people, and only a couple for we large scalers. 

Matthew 9OV)


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, Victor.... We'll sure run on that.... Sorry about the posts edited. Can't type this morning..


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Stan you can always run it on this:










Doing our part to help downsize American Garden Railroading!


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Rod Fearnley on 01/06/2009 2:08 AM
Now if there was only something else to see around Nebraska.........................................?








Rod



Rod, I think Nebraska rolled up the sidewalks. It's winter. However, somewhere in the lower Southeastern corner in a remote outback shop, you might be able to find an old hobo in a ball cap feverously crafting fine railroad rolling stock to WOW visitors in September.   





And we ARE going to help make the show smaller.....


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Fear not Stan, both Jill and I fell in love with Arizona, the people, weather and wide open spaces, we shall always return there. We actually have friends just outside of Prescott,








If we ever get to Nebraska we will definately look for the little Ole Hobo in a ball cap.......................(and of course his lovely wife) It is our intention one day to attend his "Thingy".


The Denver NGRS show in Denver this year conflicts with an annual event that I have to attend, so that's out anyway.

I notice that the BTS still hasn't got a web site up yet for this year? 

Rod


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

e-mail I received from Bob Chaparro. Bob arranges for monthly railroad viewings in the So Cal area of all scales and was instrumental in putting together the open houses for the NMRA national convention last year.



The Big Train Show is looking for quality layouts IN ALL SCALES[/b] to display during their show in Ontario next June. They will pay owners to display their layouts. You need to respond if interested by January 13.

Below is the information about displaying layouts at the Big Train Show. Please contact the promoter directly if you are interested. Please do not contact me as I am passing on this information as a courtesy and have no other connection to the Big Train Show.

Bob Chaparro
===================
Hi Bob,

Thank you for your help.

To start off with, why we are changing the venue of the Big Train Show. It starts with the economy. And to help interest in the model train hobby and exposure of all the different gauges to the public.

After 18 years of putting on The Big Train show I have teamed up with the Ontario Convention Center. With their help, expertise and exposure in advertising I think this will really help the model train industry.

Garden bus tours have been a real success to The Big Train Show. So WE DECIDED TO ADD OTHER GAUGES TO THE TOURS THIS YEAR along with other exhibitors.

The Big Train Show Dates:

Bus Tours: June 4 &, 2009
Big Train Show: June 6 & 7, 2009

Bus Tours

The bus tours will be Thursday, June 4th and Friday, June 5th, 2009. They will depart from the Ontario Convention Center. Each tour should have between 4 & 5 homes in a general area.

There are NO "MAP" or "SELF GUIDED" tours, only bus tours with a docent aboard each bus. Tickets are by pre-registration only. If we have more than one bus on a tour, the busses will be staggered as so we don't overload a home.

We will pay each homeowner who is accepted $150.00 to help defray the cost of refreshments a few weeks after the show. Finial decision on who is accepted for the bus tours will be made by the staff of On Track Productions, Inc.

To make our advertising deadlines we need commitments by January 13, 2009

People interested, Please contact Brian Curry by phone (949-300-6869). Please leave a message if you get the answer machine. I will get back you in the evening.

What we will need:

1. Your name: His and Hers & Last
2. Address of your home
3. Phone number
4 e-mail address if you have one
5. A brief description of your layout (e-mailed or faxed or snail mail)
6. Some photos Digital preferred. e-mailed to: [email protected]
or snail mailed to address below.

It would help us if you were interested in showing your layout to contact other modelers in your area to join in on the open house bus tour. We need between 4 & 5 home on a tour.

Other note: We do not give out or print your address, phone number on any of our advertising only your name and city.

Looking forward to this new venue with all your help.

Sincerely,

Brian Curry
The Big Train Show


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted by Rod Fearnley...
It is our intention one day to attend his "Thingy".

I'm glad you didn't say, "attend *to* his Thingy!"


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Does this mean they'll pay me to bring my screwy little layout to the show???


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Mr Ennis! Indeed................................








Bacardi and Coke please?
Rod


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## RandyBryie (Jan 2, 2008)

It will be interesting to see how many dealers in the smaller scales show up, since G scale show booths are about 1.5 to 2.5 times more expensive than all scale shows! Brian will really have to slash prices to fill the booths! My guess is that he will bring in more N, HO, O scale modular layouts and try to draw more people through the gate to improve revenue. Any other small scale dealers would probably be the Lionel and Thomas the Tank vendors. Those that I saw recently at an all scale show trying to sell G scale at MSRP will have a difficult time!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

not too happy about the tours not being ALL large scale. That will put the kibosh on that part for me. I can see other scales anywhere. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dave H (Jan 5, 2008)

Someone needs to ask Bob Chaparro & Brian Curry, everyones QUESTIONS.

This train show is going to lose ALOT of people, especially over seas people, who come here for "LARGE SCALE ONLY".

It will be interesting to see & hear, what ALL the large scale dealers think about this.

Will we see dealers of ALL scales on the show room floor?(looks that way)

What are they going to call the show NOW?(the Big, Medium & Small)

Why not have tours of "G" scale 1 day, "O" scale another day, "HO" another day and so on?

Or have tours for "G" only "O" only "HO" only & so on?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Good ideas on the tours Dave... 

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I was wondering what he was going to do to keep the show going. I fugured this would be a bad year due to the economy.

I am just glad that He is making a concentrated effort to keep the show going.

Look at the bright side. There still is Large scate trains there and we still all get to meet and chew the fat.

Seeing all our friends every years is the real reason I go anyway.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Seeing all our friends every years is the real reason I go anyway.
Me too JJ.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 01/07/2009 6:49 AM
Seeing all our friends every years is the real reason I go anyway.
Me too JJ. 


Me three....


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Last train show I went to (Great Train Expo) was all scales yet large scale seamed to have a large presence. I suspect the promoters are just trying to fill spaces after lackluster bookings, which I suspect has more to do with peoples irrational fears over the crappy economy than with any real demise of large scale interest or vendors, which I find rather funny. If I was a vendor why would I sit on my hands instead of trying to push product at a train show, at least its an opportunity to get your presence known, thats how I found several vendors I use now was at the BTS!










I look forward to converting the unwashed small scalers to the blessing of large scale (BTW I *DO* mean _unwashed_, some of those small scale guys, well they need to get out more...







) I expect the BTS to have at least as many people as last year, home based hobbies ALWAYS increase during sour economies, train shows are a cheap day out with the family and model trains can be a cheap hobby if you know how to approach it. 


Maybe that should be our message this year.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Me four.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

The best outcome in my opinion would be that they can maintain the vender list for large scale and fill the rest of the space with other scales. My fear would be that large scale venders will over a couple years dwindle down and the BTS will become just another train show. In my case ,since I fly,I would have to consider flying to N.Y for the show there instead. My expenses would be about the same.


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Me five 
Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Some of the best deals on large-scale equipment come from smaller scale dealers who just happen to have a few pieces due to whatever reason.


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## John Corradini (Jan 2, 2008)

Me six


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Me Lucky SEVEN!


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Its great to see all you guys, and we really enjoyed the Show. But there is real big difference in driving from Arizona over to California or Some where in Cal. to Ontario for the weekend. Before we even get to the States we have had a $2100.00 hit for the Air fare. Plus it's not worth coming all that way just for a few days, we have to make a vacation out of it, hotels,car etc. So, I will look and see what this show is like. I have no interest in HO, N, at all. Shame really, but there you go.
Other than that, I look forwards to seeing you all there....................................Other than that, Me Eight








Rod


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