# New Bachmann 2013 NMRA announcements



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catalogs/2013/NMRA_2013.pdfhttp://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catal...A_2013.pdf

Well here it is...thats all we get...sure some trolley guys will be happy, a 1:29 Trolley and TTTE Toby, whoopdie-do


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

IMO, considering the economic climate, we should consider *any* new products to be a good and positive thing.. 

Scot


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Hope it's better than their old Trolley!


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm pretty excited Bachmann has decided to make something--anything!--in 1:29th scale. And I was looking for a trolley so I plan to buy one. I hope it's successful enough that they make more 1:29th scale products in the future.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I like some of their HO introductions. I'd buy an EM-1 in 1:29. 

Chuck


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 19 Jul 2013 12:49 PM 
http://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catalogs/2013/NMRA_2013.pdfhttp://www.bachmanntrains.net/Catal...A_2013.pdf

Well here it is...thats all we get...sure some trolley guys will be happy, a 1:29 Trolley and TTTE Toby, whoopdie-do






















Hey Vic, 
ANY sign or hint of a VIRUS on their site??????


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Stan Ames posted this


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not a trolley fan, but they do look good.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I saw them today also. They look ery nice and run well. They had one actually running at the show. Here is a still pic of it running at the show. Later RJD


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

I am a bit surprised at the Trolley announcement as well. However, I wonder if this indicates a move by Bachmann from the logging/narrow gauge to standard gauge as well. 

Perhaps Bachmann is going niche market into trolley/interurban?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Let's face it. When you have to spend $600 ~ $800 street price for Bachmann's latest F scale engines in an economic downturn a second hand Accucraft is a good buy at twice the price. A plastic Bachmann has no collection value and is just a disposable item where a brass Accucraft is a keepers. Plastic engines under $500 will sell, but over that you have to seriously ask yourself where your investment is going. 
I think they need to focus on some affordable smaller prototypes for the F scale market if they wish to keep that product range active.

Andrew


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree that lower-priced 1:20 locos would be nice to see, but I can't agree that an Accucraft is a "good buy at twice the price" compared to the Bachmann plastic locos, even at $800 each. Perhaps if all you're interested in is resale value, I might see that as being applicable because historically brass holds its value better than plastic. But once you run a loco, all bets on future value are off anyway. For me, my "investment" in my trains is measured in enjoyment, not financial return. I get every bit as much enjoyment out of my plastic Bachmann locos as I do my brass Accucraft locos; arguably more because I run them more often. So--to me--they represent a greater value. (And more lower priced locos would increase that value even more!) 

It will be interesting to watch how Bachmann's foray into 1:29 goes as time passes, and what effect it has on the 1:20 stuff. I _would_ like to see some distinctive branding on their part to separate the 1:20 from the 1:22 from the 1:29. It's okay to lump it under the "large scale" banner, but hopefully there's an effort to make the segregation between product lines fairly distinct. 

Later, 

K


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 19 Jul 2013 11:22 PM 
.... I _would_ like to see some distinctive branding on their part to separate the 1:20 from the 1:22 from the 1:29. It's okay to lump it under the "large scale" banner, but hopefully there's an effort to make the segregation between product lines fairly distinct. 

Later, 

K 
Amen!!!!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

EBT, I definitely see your point about getting enjoyment value for the buck but I think it is a much easier choice to blow less than $500 on a new plastic acquisition for most of us. Bachmann have several larger engines in 1:20.3 now which aren't always an easy sale and are too big for some people's layouts. I think in these tight times some smaller engines may be more welcome with the masses. I can get just as excited about a small loco as a large one and I would be more likely to buy two small charming locos over time instead of one large one. Most people in this hobby are probably still on R1 curves too. Bachmann needs to sell in high quantities to keep the price down unlike Accucraft that can be produced in smaller batches at a premium price for the serious collector. 

Andrew


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I get what you're saying, but the reality is that 1:20 equipment and 2' radius curves are by and large mutually exclusive. Even if the loco were to fit, the rolling stock would have to be small industrial stuff to look good. Bachmann's Spectrum freight cars (and Accucraft's) all have a 4' radius minimum, and they look a bit wonky even on that. From an aesthetic standpoint, I think 6' radius is probably the minimum radius for 1:20 equipment. It may fit tighter, but it doesn't look good doing so. So if you're running on tighter curves, you're back to looking at Bachmann's 1:22 stuff or smaller 1:20 locos like the 0-4-0 and perhaps the Climax and Forney. Most of those locos (with the exception of the Climax and Forney) can be easily found for well under $500. I haven't a clue how those locos are selling relative to the larger 1:20 stuff, but Bachmann does, and I'm sure those sales numbers weigh heavily into their future product discussions. The stuff's out there on the store shelves, so there's product to track and trends to monitor. 

I suspect that's why we're seeing Bachmann stick their toe in the 1:29 pool. Aristo and USA have been fairly dominant in that market, but they're currently slow to introduce new products. What better time for a new player to enter the field? Unfortunately, it diverts finite resources from other product lines, but that really can't be helped. Consider the upside, though... more time between new releases means more time to save up the money to buy them when they are released. 

Later, 

K


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By vsmith on 19 Jul 2013 12:49 PM 
Well here it is...thats all we get...sure some trolley guys will be happy, a 1:29 Trolley and TTTE Toby, whoopdie-do








Not even a Henrietta!



















Andrew


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Garratt on 19 Jul 2013 09:49 PM 
Let's face it. When you have to spend $600 ~ $800 street price for Bachmann's latest F scale engines in an economic downturn a second hand Accucraft is a good buy at twice the price. A plastic Bachmann has no collection value and is just a disposable item where a brass Accucraft is a keepers. Plastic engines under $500 will sell, but over that you have to seriously ask yourself where your investment is going. 
I think they need to focus on some affordable smaller prototypes for the F scale market if they wish to keep that product range active.

Andrew 



"disposable"? seriously? I have never heard of anyone throwing away their Bachmann engines when they are done with them..

and "investment"? seriously?  Maybe 2% of hobbiests are into model railroading for the "investment value"..
If I could buy a Bachmann engine for $500 or a used Accucraft for $1,000, I will pick the Bachmann all day long..
because I cant realistically pay $1,000 for an accucraft..I dont care what the model is, its the price that is the factor..
(and actually, $500 for a Bachmann is a bit of a stretch too..Im more of a $250 locomotive guy..)
I could care less that the Accucraft might be a better "investment", because a $1,000 loco will always be out of my reach anyway..
the "investment value" is irrelevant, since I will never own the loco in the first place..
and the "investment value" is also irrelevant because I will keep most of my trains until I die,
and after I am dead, the value wont mean a thing to me!  "Investment" is a word that has never, and will never, have any
place or meaning in my model railroading pursuits..

Scot


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Scot, it does all relate to what you can spend. I am lucky enough to have some extra money just for trains. The fate of Bachmann engines? They eventually just break here there and everywhere. Not saying you can't get good value out of them but it's not as if they will be around for decades. I use the term 'investment' losely. The return I expect is not a monetary one. I have a few I use and many I collect, some I resell so my view of models, their quality and the substance that money can buy is probably different to most. I also have a collection of 60s guitars that are worth heaps. I bought them all relatively cheap when everyone else was buying new Jap ones. I don't even play them anymore they just hang around and get rarer! So what are the Jap ones worth now? - Zip! 
They way I see it a good second hand Accucraft looked after will always be worth the relative same but a plastic consumer model will be eventually be a pile of broken crap like most things nowadays.
It is all about what you can afford though and I can afford to have a few 10s of thousands of dollars tied up in trains. I am here to enjoy them while I can. 

Scot, you said it yourself '$500 is a bit of a stretch'. My point is if I have to spend serious money on an engine I would prefer to spend more on something that won't devalue too much. 

Andrew


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Andrew, 
I see your points..but again I have to disagree.. 
A Bachmann engine will eventually end up "a pile of broken crap"? 
how does that happen exactly?  

Sure, owner care plays a part..and you can find junked Bachmann Big Hauler 10-wheelers on ebay that have been trashed, 
but that is due to the owner..not due to the model itself..Things of high-value can end up junked: 









and things of lower value can remain pristine virtually forever: 










depends on how you care for it.. 

I expect my Bachmann steamers and USA trains diesels to remain in excellent condition for the rest of my life.. 
sure, gears can fail..but they can also be fixed.. 
I just dont buy the premise that plastic engines are destined to be "junk"...Its not going to happen to my plastic engines. 
This locomotive: 










Is a beauty..and it will remain a beauty for as long as I live.. 
its not going to fall apart and become "a pile of junk" all by itself.. 
I can probably even run it!  and it still wont turn into a pile of junk.. 

and..in my experience, HO scale brass diesels are far junkier and lower quality that plastic diesels.. 
I never understood the logic of paying five times the price for a lower quality model.. 
an Athern HO scale SD40-2 is much cheaper, much better detail, and much better running than most brass SD40-2's.. 
(not as relevant in large scale..but it is a factor in the hobby overall..) 

Scot


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Scot. I see your point, There is no reason a plastic Bachmann can't give years of service if well looked after and it's the only practical way most people can own models like that. That is a nice looking engine by the way. I still have a first generation Bachmann shay unused in the box. I am too scared to let the light in though, the trucks might turn to dust like in a vampire movie. Ha ha! I have a good second hand Accucraft C-19 that cost me about $1200. If I was to buy a Bachmann one it would cost me about $750 + $150 shipping, so I bought the AC instead. To me that is better value. I have a few other engines like that which are unlikely to devalue too much. 

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

For $200 I will buy one!


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Garratt on 20 Jul 2013 10:34 AM 
Scot. I see your point, There is no reason a plastic Bachmann can't give years of service if well looked after and it's the only practical way most people can own models like that. That is a nice looking engine by the way. I still have a first generation Bachmann shay unused in the box. I am too scared to let the light in though, the trucks might turn to dust like in a vampire movie. Ha ha! I have a good second hand Accucraft C-19 that cost me about $1200. If I was to buy a Bachmann one it would cost me about $750 + $150 shipping, so I bought the AC instead. To me that is better value. I have a few other engines like that which are unlikely to devalue too much. 

Andrew 



ok, I can agree with that! 
I just wanted to point out that, to many, "investment value" simply isnt an issue..
and I dont think less expensive locos are automatically "junk"..
but there are certainty different ways of approaching the hobby, and you and I have rather different ways..which is fine..
I think we are on the same page now! 

Scot


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 20 Jul 2013 02:20 AM 
I get what you're saying, but the reality is that 1:20 equipment and 2' radius curves are by and large mutually exclusive. Even if the loco were to fit, the rolling stock would have to be small industrial stuff to look good. ....

Later, 

K 


Kevin you are correct but I have to disagree to a point, the On30 line has several offerings that if up scaled to 1/20 would work just fine on R1, the Porters, the Railbus, the Mini-Heisler,the 2 cylinder Shay, even the 2-6-0 Mogul could be done in a way to work easily in R1, making them marketable to just about anyone in LS, or is just that (more likely) their market research shows that the LS market has breaking up into two specific catagories, a significantly contracted adult market where 1/20 is currently strong but that future demand is starting to lean towards 1/29, and a small but growing childrens market, that would explain the Lil Haulers and the TTTE stuff getting equal shift with there new 1/20 products.

I would love to see the Railbus in LS


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 20 Jul 2013 10:47 AM 
Posted By Garratt on 20 Jul 2013 10:34 AM 
Scot. I see your point, There is no reason a plastic Bachmann can't give years of service if well looked after and it's the only practical way most people can own models like that. That is a nice looking engine by the way. I still have a first generation Bachmann shay unused in the box. I am too scared to let the light in though, the trucks might turn to dust like in a vampire movie. Ha ha! I have a good second hand Accucraft C-19 that cost me about $1200. If I was to buy a Bachmann one it would cost me about $750 + $150 shipping, so I bought the AC instead. To me that is better value. I have a few other engines like that which are unlikely to devalue too much. 

Andrew 



ok, I can agree with that! 
I just wanted to point out that, to many, "investment value" simply isnt an issue..
and I dont think less expensive locos are automatically "junk"..
but there are certainty different ways of approaching the hobby, and you and I have rather different ways..which is fine..
I think we are on the same page now! 

Scot
Good points Scot. I bought an Accucraft #346 a year after I bought my Bachmann Connie. Since having a BBT drive installed, I run the Connie twice as much as the Accucraft. I never buy this stuff for an investment, although the Accucraft loco has increased in value since 2008. I run them for my enjoyment.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Scot, when you are only spending a few hundred dollars on an engine you only need to think of getting that much enjoyment value out of it in return for your 'investment' which is quite easy but when the amount spent is much higher you do have to consider how your money is best serving you. My original point was that Bachmann may sell more cheaper smaller locos than larger ones during this economic downturn. Not sure what prototypes but maybe some small industrial types that ooze with charm. They could even do a class A climax, they already have the trucks. 

Andrew


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Garratt on 20 Jul 2013 11:16 AM 
Scot, when you are only spending a few hundred dollars on an engine you only need to think of getting that much enjoyment value out of it in return for your 'investment' which is quite easy but when the amount spent is much higher you do have to consider how your money is best serving you. 

Andrew 



Well ok..I'll believe that, I guess..but again your "investment thinking" is completely foreign to me..

I have never once thought "Am I getting $250 worth of enjoyment out of this locomotive"?
I honestly cant comprehend what that would mean..or why I would need to have such thoughts..
but ok! if it works for you, then that's fine..

Scot


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Andrew, 

I work in a brick and mortar hobby shop and I can't find a Bachmann C-19 at any of my suppliers so $800.00 to $1,000.00 locomotives don't seem to have any problem selling. I sold three of the C-19's and 9 or 10 K-27's. I think that Bachmann is exploring new avenues with their large scale. 

I have actually sold more of the expensive engines than I have of Bachmann's $200.00and $300.00 dollar locomotives. 

Andre


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Scot, like I said I use the term 'investment' losely. I have for years, it does not necessarily have a monitory return aspect. I try not to just 'spend' things, I expect something in return. I also invest my time that return things I enjoy and feel a need to do in life. Just an expression. Having more money in the bank brings me no extra happiness but a bunch of trains wizzing around me does so that is my idea of a good investment.

Andre, perhaps they sell well. I must admit buying an Accucraft K is by no means an easy option making a Bachmann my choice. Not many people were too happy to pay more than $500 for the Forney though. Aristo-Craft have stated they don't sell as many large engines. I thought times were tight. Bachmann have a tram and a Toby which will both have a street price around a few hundred dollars. They will be easy sellers.

Andrew


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