# Adding smoke unit to LGB starter loco



## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Hi all,

After many years of being out of the hobby, I'm finally putting my LGB layout back together. Anyways, I recently purchased one of LGB's American freight starter sets and was looking to add a smoke unit to it. However, upon looking at the underside, all I can see is a solid metal wire that is connected to the body and no way to remove it. Plus, I don't see a place where I would route the smoke wire, like on my Stainz loco. 

So, how would I go about adding a smoke unit to this engine, and which parts would I need?


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Umm..so how am I supposed to upload or link to images when the forum won't let me?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Use Go Advanced and Add Attachments to upload your images. 
If you can't work it out see threads: 

http://forums.mylargescale.com/32-forum-site-issues-questions/78745-embedding-photos-threads.html
http://forums.mylargescale.com/32-forum-site-issues-questions/75154-posting-pictures-without-your-1stclass-space.html

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

umm.. read the forum?

did you go to the forum on the website or just try to start posting?

There's a wealth of data and posts on this.


Greg


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

My apologies - I've not used this type of forum software in a while.

Anyhow - this is where I am at with this right now - it's a solid wire leading from underneath the screw up into the body. Not sure where I'm supposed to go with this from here.


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> did you go to the forum on the website or just try to start posting?
> 
> There's a wealth of data and posts on this.


Understood, and I have looked around this site quite a bit, but I've never seen an LGB loco set up like this before.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I don't recall seeing one with a wire like that either but the screw usually has a flat metal strip that can rotate around to touch the bottom of the smoke stack which is held on by the nut you can see next to it. That mechanism works as a smoke switch to disconnect it when not in use.
Undo the nut to remove the stack. You will need to replace the entire stack with a smoker stack then source or fabricate metal contact strip.

Also, there are 18 volt and 5 volt smokers so you need to get that right too.










Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Greg. 

#1 It is difficult for a new member using the site to understand how to post their images because the user interface is not very intuitive and very muddled usually needing detailed explanation.

#2 The site's 'Search' produces an error.

#3 Using a Google search such as: LGB 0-4-0 smoke site:mylargescale.com is best but often gives ambiguous results that are non specific. 

These are limitations of Neanderthal, turn key web site implementations.

Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

You need to check what voltage is required for your locomotive. Dan will probably know.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LGB-2015-4-65154-Balloon-Smoke-Stack-With-Smoke-Generator-/292061807484?hash=item44003d837c:g:FjEAAOSwYXVYz8Mh

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

True, the search function sucks...

Before I read your post Andrew, it looked like the wire was to supply power to the smokestack and the little metal piece was missing that made the contact with the nut on the bottom of the smokestack.

After seeing your picture, I'm pretty sure that is it.

So the answer to the question is just what you said, determine what voltage unit is needed, buy and install it, and fabricate a small metal strip to go under the philips screw to convey power and act as a switch.

Greg


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Greg, you can see that the bottom of the smoke stack on the OP's picture has no central electrical terminal therefore a dummy one with no smoke. 

He may also consider a different style smoke stack/spark arrestor. There are straight, diamond, tulip and the Stainz 'tea cup' one. Not sure if they all fit but I think they do.

The eBay link kit also has the contact lever/strip and other bits included. Listed as part: LGB 2015/4 /65154 
They stacks also available by themselves.

Andrew


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The engine uses track power to run the smoke unit.
Inside the motor block is a metal plate that makes contact with the barrel of thee 18 volt smoke unit by LGB.
A second wire, lever, washer are needed to make contact with the bottom of the new smoke unit.
Some smoke units came with a kit with these parts.
Trainli has the smoke units and kit.
However, you need to remove the motor block from the chassis to add in the wire, not an easy task.

LGB smoke stacks are available as straight stack, balloon stack, and cup style.

Trainli link to cup style smoke unit for that engine:
https://www.trainli.com/all-about-smoke-284/lgb-65203-p-6203

Here is what it looks like when a smoke unit is added:
http://forums.mylargescale.com/29-beginner-s-forum/16497-adding-smoker-lgb-didn-t-have-one.html

here is a link showing the smoke stack kit with a diagram of how it is assembled in the engine:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LGB-2010-3-...moke-Generator-Unit-G-Scale-NEW-/282252872951


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Dan, did you look at the OP's thumbnail image? It appears to already have the wire fitted ready to do the smoke upgrade. Looks like a solid wire which I have never seen before. I suspect it is a 2016 catalog set and how Marklin LGB are doing them now so an easy upgrade with the smoker kit which includes the switch lever etc. 

Andrew


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Lever has a custom bend in it on all the older locos and LGB always used a washer.
The kit I showed has the washer and lever as well as the 2 pieces not needed, yellow wire and flat copper wire.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Dan. The kit on eBay I found with the same smoke stack he has also had the lever, washer etc. 

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, Luke, would say you have a complete answer and way to do it easily.

Greg


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

OK, so this is where I am at with this:

I picked up an LGB 65154 kit today and opened up the inside of the locomotive to find that...there are no brass contacts inside. That previously-mentioned metal wire does terminate here, that much I know. 

So, where do I go from here with this?

EDIT: sorry, just re-read Dan Pierce's post up above. Will put it all back together and see if it works.


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Well, no dice so far. I reassembled the locomotive with just the new smokestack and the switch / washer, and nothing is coming out from the stack. Tried some different fluids that I know work in my other locomotive, but nothing worked.

Any thoughts, ideas?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Luke. The solid wire you had needs to have voltage from it. Also the outer metal casing of the smoke stack needs to contact the other polarity so that when the lever is touching the central contact at the bottom of the stack there is continuity through the internal smoke unit.

Open it up and check for these making contact to what drives the motor etc. I'm assuming there is no circuit board etc. so let us know or take a picture of what is inside. If you have a multimeter use that to test things.

Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Alright, so here's what I have. It's a standard out-of-the-box starter set locomotive, so no circuit boards of any sort. I've not taken apart any of my locomotives this far before, so I'm not sure what I am looking at here:


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Luke. Like Dan said 'Inside the motor block is a metal plate that makes contact with the barrel of the 18 volt smoke unit by LGB'.
Can you see that? If not you need to get something to contact the barrel of the smoke stack which is one polarity that goes to one polarity of the motor or rail.

The other polarity being the solid wire it came with so the inside end of that wire has to connect to the other polarity of the motor or rail. It looks like it is the solid wire sticking up in your 3rd photo in your previous forum posting.
Then you have the 2 polarities going to the smoke unit when the lever is touching the bottom of the stack contact.

I'm assuming you now have a stack with a smoke unit. You can check this if you look at the bottom (threaded) end of the smoke stack. It should have an insulated contact in the center. Your old one is just a solid piece of metal. 
You may have to do some wiring if these contacts are not made.

Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Garratt said:


> Luke. Like Dan said 'Inside the motor block is a metal plate that makes contact with the barrel of the 18 volt smoke unit by LGB'.
> Can you see that? If not you need to get something to contact the barrel of the smoke stack which is one polarity that goes to one polarity of the motor or rail.
> 
> The other polarity being the solid wire it came with so the inside end of that wire has to connect to the other polarity of the motor or rail. It looks like it is the solid wire sticking up in your 3rd photo in your previous forum posting.
> ...


Yes, I now have a stack with a smoke unit and all associated parts.

If am reading things correctly, should I solder the copper plate to the wire and then feed the other end through the slot where the smokestack goes?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Luke. So you have a copper plate that touches the barrel of the smoke stack? If you do then that has to go to one side of the motor / rail and the pivot screw of the metal lever has to somehow make contact to the other side of the motor / rail. 

The smokestack needs to have a circuit in parallel with the motor. The lever just acts as a way to break the circuit to the smokestack when not in use. 

The existing solid metal wire just takes in inside the motor block, perhaps not connected to anything. These motor blocks tend to rely on electrical copper strips making contact with wire posts etc. It may be designed to come into contact with the internal circuitry when put back together but it only looks as if the motor terminals do that. You may have to run some wires to the front that make contact with the smokestack barrel and lever.

Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Garratt said:


> Luke. So you have a copper plate that touches the barrel of the smoke stack? If you do then that has to go to one side of the motor / rail and the pivot screw of the metal lever has to somehow make contact to the other side of the motor / rail.


Yes, I have the copper plate that came with the kit, so right now it's not installed anywhere. 



> The existing solid metal wire just takes in inside the motor block, perhaps not connected to anything. These motor blocks tend to rely on electrical copper strips making contact with wire posts etc. It may be designed to come into contact with the internal circuitry when put back together but it only looks as if the motor terminals do that. You may have to run some wires to the front that make contact with the smokestack barrel and lever.
> 
> Andrew


Yeah, the solid metal wire definitely doesn't come into contact with anything with everything fully assembled. So, that leads me to believe it's supposed to be in contact with the metal copper plate that also makes contact with the shaft of the smokestack (pretty much the way it is with my Stainz loco).

However, I want to be sure of this before I start soldering things together, so please tell me if I'm understanding things correctly or am way off course here.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

No, the plate that touches the smokestack barrel and the solid wire that goes to the lever are what supplies power to the smokestack so they each need to have a wire soldered to them that go to each post that the motor terminals touch. I think that's how your block is set up. That is what I mean by being wired in parallel.

Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Garratt said:


> No, the plate that touches the smokestack barrel and the solid wire that goes to the lever are what supplies power to the smokestack so they each need to have a wire soldered to them that go to each post that the motor terminals touch. I think that's how your block is set up. That is what I mean by being wired in parallel.
> 
> Andrew


Ah ok, I think I am starting to get it.  Are the motor terminals the two thin narrow strips of metal in the pic below?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Does yours look like this from the bottom?










Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Pretty close. This is what I have:


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

So it looks like your outer brass posts near the motor terminals don't actually go anywhere.
I would just solder some wires to the brass posts that touch the motor terminals. Don't solder directly to the motor terminals so the motor can be freely removed. Do the soldering away from where the terminals touch so to not interfere with them.

Wait for Dan to give advice now that we can see the gizzards just in case there is a better way to do it. He knows his LGB stuff well.

My image is of #23171 a bright yellow Lake George & Boulder 0-4-0 with smoke and it does also have a solid wire going to the lever. 

Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Garratt said:


> So it looks like your outer brass posts near the motor terminals don't actually go anywhere.
> I would just solder some wires to the brass posts that touch the motor terminals. Don't solder directly to the motor terminals so the motor can be freely removed. Do the soldering away from where the terminals touch so to not interfere with them.
> 
> Wait for Dan to give advice now that we can see the gizzards just in case there is a better way to do it. He knows his LGB stuff well.


Sounds like a good plan! I also need to know what gauge of wire I should use. 

Sure is interesting how they made all of these changes to the body...


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

The same styled model also came in both clam shell block and like ours with the bottom cover. 

Andrew


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

After looking at the top view of the motor block, the single post on top needs a wire, copper/brass strap, connector pin for the barrel of the new stack.
The bottom of the motor block needs the lever and washer.

Look at this diagram that shows what parts are needed fore contact with the smoke stack.

https://www.trainli.com/LGB-PDF/LGB Engines/21201-1.PDF


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Dan Pierce said:


> After looking at the top view of the motor block, the single post on top needs a wire, copper/brass strap, connector pin for the barrel of the new stack.
> The bottom of the motor block needs the lever and washer.
> 
> Look at this diagram that shows what parts are needed fore contact with the smoke stack.
> ...


So, do I have everything on hand that I need to put everything together? I have the kit with the lever, washer, stack, and brass strip. And, am I running just one wire from the post to the preinstalled solid wire?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Luke, you don't have everything to make it like my block. My block has much longer stiff wires that run underneath where yours are shortened so only go to the motor end. LGB are also routing them through different holes just to confuse things.
The PDF diagram is like my block. You can see the long stiff wires which you don't have at the bottom of the explode electrical illustration.

You could source them or make them from brass wire but perhaps difficult to get them the perfect size and shape.
Best to use original LGB ones because they need to be right so they contact the wheel brushes/sliders correctly.
The important thing is that you understand what is going on with the circuit to avoid an open or short circuit etc.
I can draw it if you are still confused.

You have your existing stiff wire that goes to where the new lever is installed. 
Now you need to install the brass strip that lays inside the hole that the stack goes through and touches for contact against the barrel. These two items are to power the smoke stack. 
I can't remember how the other end of the strip conects, it must come in contact to the end of the stiff wire (post) but your stiff wires are shortened.

I would just solder flexible insulated wires from them across to each pin near where the motor contacts are in top of the block. Probably the inside posts but not sure because I cant see how the wire posts connect from your images. Each wire to each side of the motor though. Wrap them around the top of the post and a small amount of flux/solder, just enough to do the job. don't let the posts get too hot or plastic will melt. 

I'll re-post the relevant images all here so easier to compare.

My block









Your block


















Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Thanks Andrew, I got it.  Going to give this a shot now!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Luke, I'm assuming the posts each side of the motor are bridged by the top cover plate or somewhere else. A picture is worth a thousand words. 










Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Garratt said:


> Luke, I'm assuming the posts each side of the motor are bridged by the top cover plate or somewhere. A picture is worth a thousand words.
> 
> Andrew


Yes, that is what it looks like. I've not started soldering yet, so I'm glad you posted that photo confirming what I should do.


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Success! I had to cut away some of the upper plastic housing in order to get the wire from the copper tab to fit correctly, but it's all working now.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

WooHoo! I was hoping I didn't cause a fire. Ha ha! 

Andrew


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Garratt said:


> WooHoo! I was hoping I didn't cause a fire. Ha ha!
> 
> Andrew


Haha, yeah, knowing my track record with electrical projects, I wouldn't have been surprised if that had happened.  Appreciate all of your help with this! 

Big thanks as well goes out to my wife, who turned out to be quite the better at soldering than I am!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Soldering is an art in itself.
Here is what I do to get solder to flow freely (almost looks like water):
1: I use a dremel tool to rough up the metal which cleans it and gives twice the surface area
2: Only use rosin core solder and I prefer 63/37 over the 60/40.
3: Never use a wet sponge to clean the iron as this cools the iron, I prefer an old face cloth. Use a wet sponge only if the iron sits for a minute to heat back up.


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## LukeFF (Apr 11, 2017)

Dan Pierce said:


> Soldering is an art in itself.
> Here is what I do to get solder to flow freely (almost looks like water):
> 1: I use a dremel tool to rough up the metal which cleans it and gives twice the surface area
> 2: Only use rosin core solder and I prefer 63/37 over the 60/40.
> 3: Never use a wet sponge to clean the iron as this cools the iron, I prefer an old face cloth. Use a wet sponge only if the iron sits for a minute to heat back up.


Good tips, thanks!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Also, make sure the iron tip is clean and tinned with solder properly. Often the copper coating/solder eventually burns off if left on for extended duration so it oxidizes and won't take the solder to transfer heat properly. When everything is clean it is easy and only takes a quick touch of the tip.

Andrew


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