# track wiring for mth engine



## katieed (Feb 14, 2010)

i just started working in G gauge, my previous experience is with O.
i recently bought an mth G gauge GG-1, the instructions say that it can run on AC or DC.
i was hoping to run it on an extra mth AC transformer that i have for my O guage.
the engine has proto sound 2.0 so i figured it would access all the sounds and features with out adding a remote.

the problem:
in the instruction it lists the mth z 1000 (the one i want to use) and others as compatibile ac transformers.
the instructions manual says to connect the red terminal to the center track and the black to the outside track.
am i missing something, what is the proper wiring scheme for this engine in AC?
are there any other switches that need to be thrown, etc.
thanks,
ed


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed

Personally I don't know much about MTH, however, the one individual that has a real good handle on it is MLS user rayman4449. I'm sure he'll answer your post, but until then you might find your answer on Rays web site, link following.

rayman4449's Web Site[/b]


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

unlike 3-rail o-scale the main rails that the drivers rest on are not tied together so your center rail conection will go to one rail and the outside rail conection to the other .....


some things to note 

only MTH G will use AC power all other G is DC power 

you can not run a reverce loop like with 3 rail 0

without mikes DCS control system you will not get all of the sounds


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## katieed (Feb 14, 2010)

so what you are saying is that for ac it doesn't matter which track the power goes too?? 
ed


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## katieed (Feb 14, 2010)

got it, thanks for the help everyone. 
works great, if using the mth 1000 ac transformer ... all features are available. 
this works through whistle, bell and direction combinations. 
thanks, 
ed


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

Can you set the GG1 to use power from an overhead wire? If so that can become the center rail and you can use reverse loops and such much easier. 

When you set up your layout you will want to be consistent with which wires go to which tracks in the event you spring for the DCS control system. DCS is polarity sensitive, regardless of whether it is running on AC or DC. The engine cares which track has the red wire and which has the black ... it stops working if you get them reversed. 

I tried running my two MTH locomotives on AC just to see how they would behave. Because the engines have computers in them, my biggest beef is that the direction control was really slow to respond compared to my 50 year old Lionel and of course all the lights went out on the train when the button was pushed. It appeared that they have very aggressive debounce logic so that the engine doesn't stop when it runs over a bad section of track. 

If you want to play with a DC version without spending a lot of money you can go to Radio Shack and pick up their large full wave bridge rectifier and a double pole double throw switch and turn the AC into DC that is pretty much the same as what comes out of the MRC transformers. Be aware that the direction and sound controls that rely on the AC will stop working when you do that. 

The GG1 has a lot of features that appear to be accessed through MTH's DCS system. Based on the literature it should be pretty impressive in that mode.


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

*Ed*

*Welcome to the MTH GG1 club and ...*

*







*

*The GG1 is a great looking AND running engine.*

*







*

*It is one of the later MTH engines and DOES HAVE a "DCS polarity" switch under the top cover.*

*







*


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By N1CW on 15 Feb 2010 04:52 AM 

*Ed*

*Welcome to the MTH Gauge-1 GG1 club and ...*

*







*

*The GG1 is a great looking AND running engine.*

*







*

*It is one of the later MTH engines and DOES HAVE a "DCS polarity" switch under the top cover.*

*







*


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## COFFEEBREAK (Jul 27, 2009)

I didn"t know they made 3 rail g guage track Am I wrong ?I use DC 2 rail myself 
Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Never seen it... 

Greg


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## GizmoG (Dec 27, 2007)

It is called 1 gauge track and in the early 20th century it was the most popular size available. 3 rail was for electric and 2 rail was for mechanically powered trains. The Marklin company of Germany introduced both l and 2 gauges tubular sectional track in the late 1800's and it was so superior to the previous systems that most other manufactures quickly adopted the format. We run our G _Scale_ trains on 1 _gauge_ track. 
Glenn


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, know the history. 

Is there 3 rail, G gauge track that has been made since the MTH loco this is about was made? 

I don't think so... 

Maybe reproductions of the old tubular rail, but his question is about "why is MTH talking about 3 rail and my 1:32 loco?"... 

Greg


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

Because MTH's major product line is O Gauge and runs on Lionel style 3 rail track. Their documentation is all oriented toward 3 rail, especially their DCS specific documentation. 

DCS stops being polarity sensitive when it runs on 3 rails, the center is always the Plus side of their controller output,which means you can turn the train around on the track and it still works. If you do that on 2 rail systems, you have to swap the control sense as well as the voltage. I read somewhere (probably on one of these forum posts) that MTH introduced the PS3 system on HO because there was huge resistance to their proprietary system - PS3 supports DCC in some limited way. 

Tom


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

I need to comment that MTH's locomotives are pretty nice for the money. They provide good sound, lots of control, the DCS system has wireless control for a very reasonable price, and their locomotives are reasonably priced. 

It is the advantage of integrating everything into a mass produced proprietary system. 

My issues with the control system, DCS, is that it is a bit fragile in an outdoor environment, it is proprietary, and it has no computer interface. 

I have made it run fairly reliably out doors and it ran just fine when covered with very wet snow last week. Getting it to that point took a lot of effort, many discussions on the DCC forum topic, and dividing the layout up into sections. 

With their proprietary controls they can provide nifty features like controlling the pantographs on the GG1 and operating the couplers, all from their wireless controller and there are no codes to remember, all the functions have at least a Three Letter Acronym assigned to them. TLA's are slightly easier to remember compared to numeric codes.

Tom


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom, The new PS3 boards will do away with the track polarity issue and can be operated under AC, DC, DCC & DCS. MTH has been testing them for the last year to work out any bugs. 

The new design TIU is being tested and reportedly has 16 times the DCS signal strength...new TIU & Remote are to be released later this year


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

When running under DCS control (with remote and TIU) you still need to ensure you have the polarity switch set correctly with 3 rail, even under AC. But I understand the point that for O gauge 3 rail, once the switch is set correctly you won't have to change it.

Tom I recall you were the one that had issues getting track signal to the layout and used various power supplies. Just an FYI, I ended up doing my own testing and found the MRCs resulted in good track signal level (not as good as Bridgewerks) but not really bad. Based on what was being seen, you might have some sort of hardware issue which if still an issue you might want to contact MTH directly on. For the amount of linear feet you were trying to provide signal to you shouldn't have been having the problems you were. DCS isn't fragile outdoors. The problems that you've had outside is just odd and is outside the norm. There was one batch of TIUs that apparently produced lower than normal track signal levels to the track and needed to be tweaked by MTH. Maybe a quick call to MTH would confirm you don't have one of those TIUs.

For our new KCGRS club layout I've connected the club TIU in passive mode (simply tapping the TIU fixed 1 output terms to the track) and have gotten almost perfect track signal levels. I'm running 700ft of Stainles steel track outside with one TIU in passive mode.

Proprietary is what you would use to describe just about all of the G scale control systems out there. When you make a committment to a control system, you generally won't be running other control systems with the same control as the one you chose. It's just the way it is.


Raymond


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

First, I like MTH's GG1 and all the nifty things that it does. It would also fit in very nicely with the passenger cars that I have. 

I don't want to turn this into a DCS discussion, my system works fine now ... I still have a few areas of low signal but they all seem to be bounded by the stock Aristo rail joiners, they do seem to disappear when I change them to Split Jaw. I run the system in passive mode so that I don't have to worry about smoking the TIU if something derails and I am not constantly replacing fuses every time I accidentally get both engines on the same section of track. 

Fragile is relative. Once I have a DCC system running to compare it to, I'll be better able to comment on it. DCS still has its moments when it just doesn't want to behave, usually recovering from an oops, and I end up having to walk back and forth between the section of the layout where the train is stopped to the other where the power is controlled (they usually are separated by the longest walking distance) to get things back in running order. Of course this only happens when I have a yard full of guests, including young boys, that are all ready to jump in and be helpful. 

I am still waiting for the new PS3 system to start becoming available ... I will upgrade both engines and if there isn't a problem with it, I will put a third module into the F7B that I have so it can run as a standalone engine. 

Yes, I agree that everyone's DCC system is proprietary within their control system, I can't buy a CVP controller and hook up Massoth's wireless remote to it. The difference is that I can buy anyone's DCC equipped locomotive and run it on whatever control system I decide to have. Additionally, the design information for DCC to build my own interface(s) is available if I decide to do that. 

In my case, the layout is broken into 2 sections, two thirds is MTH DCS and the rest is DC which is about to become DCC once the expansion is started. I am looking forward to being able to run any locomotive on any set of tracks - that would be great.


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