# Min radius for a ruby



## ShayCrazy (Dec 27, 2007)

Hello all I have been a lurker for a very long time but I have finaly taken the plunge and orderd a ruby kit. I am looking at building a small garden railway just to get my feet wet. I was thinking a small 10X15 plot with a single loop or a figure 8 and some scenery. Sort of the live steam version of a HO 4X8. I am planning on running short 4 wheel rolling stock like the ozark minatures kits. I have thought of adding a small tender but not getting too extreme yet not like the fantastic mason bogie conversions I see here. So the question is how small of a radius can the ruby handle? Also I understand that it cant take much of a grade. I was thinking somthing small like .5 or 1% just to add some visual interest. I am planning on letting the train run itself slowly and just catch up with it to refuel after a while. I am not too concerned about operations, yet. Any thoughts or comments would be apreciated. 

Cheers

Adam


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

A long time back, I ran my Ruby through the R1 (4' diameter) curves on my old SCLCoRR. So it will handle anything you can throw at it. 

Running it slowly may be a much bigger challenge. hehehe


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## Dr. J (Feb 29, 2008)

Hi, and welcome. I'm sort of an old newbie, having been into live steam for about six months. I had the foresight to build my sparkie layout absolutely flat, however, becuase I knew that "someday" I would get into live steam. My advice: Keep your tracks dead level, and vary the terrain. My yard slopes, so that the tracks nearest the house are at ground level, but towards the back of the yard they are 4 feet up in the air - not because of a % grade. Over small distances and sharp curves, the grade will be just a headache, of minimal scenic value. (A 1% grade on a 50 foot straightaway would be another matter: you could gain some significant elevation that way....but that's not what you're up against. The combination of sharp curves and a grade can lead to frustration). 
My two cents. 
Dr. J


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's my two cents: You may not want to design your layout for one paticular locomotive. The Ruby would run fine on 4 foot radius it also runs fine on 20 foot radius, but anything larger than two axles might have a hard time on the 4 foot. As for me, I would build the layout with the largest curves that can fit in the allowed garden railway area. I started with 4 foot radius running my Frank S and my Ruby-forney and after purchasing another loco or two, I felt the need to move to 5 foot radius. It was a fairly large undertaking to reailign the track. I still can't run any 1/32 Aster engines but all my Regner and DRGW narrow gauge take the 5 foot radius well.

If you're unable to go any larger due to space limitations there are many two axled (and some three axled) locos to fill out your round house that will negotiate smaller radii just fine.

Notice above that Dwight says 4' _diameter _and I believe that is correct, a two axled loco can run on curves very tight, up until the flanges begin to bind and ride up.


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## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

Yep, my Ida runs fine on her small 4ft diameter test oval. Haven't found a 2 axle car that will not track - some bigger like Bachmann passengers and narrow gauge 4 axle freights do fine. Everyone is happier on the 5ft diameter track though. Even my Bachmann Annie 10 wheel sparky turns the tight curves. On my larger dogbone (65 ft total) I run essentially one way only - the few inevitable grades are tweaked so she goes uphill on the straights, down on the tight curves so there are no extreme load changes.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

While it's true (as I said) that Ruby will run on 4' _diameter_ curves, I agree with what others have said here. Use as large a radius of curves as you can fit. 

The reason why my original SCLCoRR was ripped out is that I built it with R1 and R2 curves (4' and 5' dia. respectively). Nothing would run happily on it other than Ruby and a sparkie Bachmann Climax. Even the Bachmann Shay was unhappy on those tight curves. I'd recommend R3 (8' diameter) minimum, and larger if you have the room. If you plan to run live steam, keep the track flat and vary terrain height to add interest. 

MHO.


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

I never had a Ruby so cannot speak specifically to that engine. My first engines were Roundhouse which are suppose to run through the four foot diameter LGB track. For what ever reason I used five foot diameter for my layout and R1 switches and the engines all went through the curves with no sweat. *I did; however, find out you must be careful of speed with the small diameter curves. *So the larger diameter the curves the better. SteveS has twenty four foot radius curves and we run at high speed with no trouble on his track. 

As for the track being dead on level, this is important. If you run using radio control (which I seldom do), you can have a small amount of grade but then your non-radio control buddies will have problems.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave -- Use Coal on 29 Oct 2009 10:09 AM 
I never had a Ruby so cannot speak specifically to that engine. My first engines were Roundhouse which are suppose to run through the four foot diameter LGB track. For what ever reason I used five foot diameter for my layout and R1 switches and the engines all went through the curves with no sweat. *I did; however, find out you must be careful of speed with the small diameter curves. *So the larger diameter the curves the better. SteveS has twenty four foot radius curves and we run at high speed with no trouble on his track. 

As for the track being dead on level, this is important. If you run using radio control (which I seldom do), you can have a small amount of grade but then your non-radio control buddies will have problems.
But Dave, they don't use coal. I thought a Ruby would basically take a right angle turn with it's short wheelbase, lol.







You have to be careful what you type and read here. Posters are using radius and diameter interchangeably. Some people talk about R1 and R2 as 4' and 5' DIAMETER. That's a two foot RADIUS. Very sharp. Although your Ruby will negotiate it, at any speed it will just flip over. You need as large a RADIUS as your garden will stand and NO GRADES. Even though a Ruby will pull up a grade, it's the DOWNHILL part that will get you in trouble as a live steamer will pick up speed downhill and basicaly run away and the only brake you have is to put it in reverse. Steve has 14 foot RADIUS curves Dave, which would be 28' DIAMETER. By the way, at the Diamond steamup every January someone always puts up a circle around one of the brick planters and runs a live steamer around it. That one has to be a 4' diameter. I have a deluxe Ruby myself and I laid out Steve's curves also. For those that have never seen one the 'delux' Ruby is red and has a pressure gauge. Hope to see you Saturday Dave. I think we will have good weather inspite of the current storms. It might be a little cool so I plan to have hot coffee this time. One thing you should consider Adam(Shaycrazy), if you think you will ever get an Accucraft Shay, it takes a 4' radius minimum(8'diameter). Personally on my railroad I use a 6 1/2' radius(13' diameter) as a minimum and just about everything will run around it ok.


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## ShayCrazy (Dec 27, 2007)

wow thanks for all the comments guys! I am realy getting stoked about building my layout now. I am still leaning towards a single loop right now as I am more interested in learning to run the live steam locomotives. I am looking at building the 10X10 featured on Thor trains http://www.thortrains.net/glaysm1.htm (the 4th one down on the left) It has the opertunity to be expanded if I wish later. I am thinking though of expanding it a little with 5 ft radius curves. I am leaning towards staying in the 1:20.5 scale narrow gauge so short equiptment and a shay may be in the future. I know it is a little ambitious but I am looking at hand laying my track. I have read lots of good posts about aluminum track and am thinking that is the way to go. For bending a 5 ft. radius curve would I need to get a railbender? I want to keep this project reasonable for now so if I can get with out it that would be great! I am looking forward to posting my progress soon! 

Cheers 

Adam


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## ShayCrazy (Dec 27, 2007)

From what I read above, a figure 8 over under would be too much grade for a ruby. If it did make it too the top it would come down the other side completely out of control? Unless I can keep the grade under 2%? I am trying to keep this whole layout under 100ft of track. 

Cheers 

Adam


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jfrank on 29 Oct 2009 12:39 PM 


Snip...
One thing you should consider Adam(Shaycrazy), if you think you will ever get an Accucraft Shay, it takes a 4' radius minimum(8'diameter). 





John, I've run shays on tighter curves, but the cylinders (actually the drive line) needs to be on the inside.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Adam, you could build a figure eight with an actual grade crossing instead of an over pass type crossing. Also, grades _are_ allowed, just remember what slowly chuffs up will come screaming down, if it's a Ruby, but geared engines, as you probably know, are much more tolerant of grades. 

I built my layout when I was still a sparkie guy, but knew one day I would transition to live steam. I put grades in but kept them to 1% and I have long run outs (or run ins depending on the direction) after cresting the grade to prevent runaways.


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## msimpson (Jan 5, 2009)

I have spent a bit of time running small locomtives on small track, like circles around the planters at Diamondhead. Rubies, Edrigs, Basic Roundhouse engines, and Crickets all run on two foot radius (4 foot diameter), but it gets a bit boring. They all look better on bigger curves. 

Accucraft Shays require four foot raidus (eight foot diameter), but tolerate grades well. A Ruby is a disaster waiting to happen on a grade. It has such a narrow power band that you have to max the throttle to get up the hill, which means it will lieley be off the track on the downside. Trust me, I learned the hard way, and not the first time I did it. Somewhere a fellow wrote that he thought he had built his track dead level, and still got more than enough grade to make it interesting. 

My suggestion -- as level as you can get, as wide a radius as you can fit, and consider putting it about waist high, in consideration of the old fat guys who may want to run on it. (I resemble that remark.) But it is your road and your rules. 

Also, remember that your costs are amorrtized over your number of runs, so the more you run it, the cheaper an engine gets. If you would quit reading this and go light a fire, you might be able to afford another engine! 

Boil more water! Regards, Mike


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ShayCrazy on 29 Oct 2009 02:07 PM 
I am thinking though of expanding it a little with 5 ft radius curves. I am leaning towards staying in the 1:20.5 scale narrow gauge so short equiptment and a shay may be in the future. I know it is a little ambitious but I am looking at hand laying my track. I have read lots of good posts about aluminum track and am thinking that is the way to go. For bending a 5 ft. radius curve would I need to get a railbender? 
Cheers 

Adam 

Adam, hand laying track is an admirable goal and several people on here have done it. However, for you very first layout I would just recommend using either preformed brass sectional track or aluminum flex track. If you use aluminum you really don't need a rail bender if you have some sort of permanent sub roadbed to fasten it too. I started out using nickel silver rail and a rail bender which is necessary for that kind of rail. Later on I finished up using aluminum rail. It is much cheaper and easier to bend. If you are not going to have some kind of permanent roadbed, that is just lay it on the ground, then you should think about using preformed sectional track or using a rail bender for the curves so the track isn't always trying to straignten itself out. There are many brands to choose from. I used Llagas creek flex track, code 250 as I model in 1:20 scale narrow gauge. I have had good luck with the track. The key to enjoyment on an outdoor railroad is a good foundation, smooth and level track that doesn't move around on you. I used a combination of hardi plank and split jaw pvc roadbed. You can get it here: http://www.railclamp.com/displayCat...p;vId=6978 Have fun.


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