# Keystone and Piko trains quality ?



## GnTRailroad (Apr 3, 2009)

Hello,

What quality are the trains made by Keystone and Piko in relation to Bachmann or LGB? I have found the Keystone Army train set with the 2-6-2 engine new for $99. I also found the Piko train set with the 0-6-0 saddle tank engine new for $99. If you had to chose from one of them which? Or should I just save my money?


Thanks,
George


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Greetings,


The Piko by far is the better set. It is made in Germany and the company used to make a lot of product for LGB, in fact their building kits used to have the LGB logo as part of the packaging for the Piko buildings.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I consider LGB the best, followed closely by Piko(piko has non working doors and windows). 

Bottom of my list is Keystone. 

Bachmann has a great look, but I am not impressed with the drive systems of the non spectrum line. 

Be careful about opinions as engines and cars differ a lot in quality due to looks vs drive trains.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The Piko will be better but I have two of those 0-6-0 engines and they are not all that reliable--I had one strip its gears--probably because I over weighted it--and bought a second one which tended to slip its gears a lot and get out of quarter. I retired it. 

I'm not sure why it was such a poor runner, because it looked to be quite well made.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Is here someone that really has run Keystone? The "amazing" thing according to the data sheets is that the engines are "heavy-duty die-cast". In addition if I take a look at the Army Train Set (1 box car, 2 flat cars, 1 bobber caboose all with metal wheels are worth already the $99) According the J Loyd these sets are really good engines.

Other sets look cute too (e.g. the circus set). I don't believe the $99 set of PIKO is such a good deal. Many reports I have seen didn't like the performance of that engine. And if not mistaken those items are closer to 1:32 than to 1:29. And Made in Germany is not equal to made in Germany. LGB used to use BASF Plastics, ProLine's TrainLine45 does as well. LGB still uses high-end Buehler motors and the new engines from Trainline45 will be as well, while Piko uses a cheap 5 rotor Chinese motor with limited slow speed performance.

I believe the motor of Keystone can't be worse.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

My Keystone out of the box could have been called Krapstone, my issue was the lack of engine weight, its a very light puller. These really need extra weight in them. My Bmann Indy pulled better than the Keystone circus engine I have. My Piko was a good little chunker, the main issue with it was Pikos stupid decision to leave the wheel flanges painted limiting the power pick up to the skates only out of the box, removing the paint from the flanges vastly improves the power flow. It was a good little engine to me.


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

I would save up for a used LGB Mogul or Cat Switcher (German Made). Excellent buys on ebay. Long term you will be happy.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 19 Jan 2011 09:38 AM 
My Keystone out of the box could have been called Krapstone, my issue was the lack of engine weight, its a very light puller. These really need extra weight in them. My Bmann Indy pulled better than the Keystone circus engine I have. My Piko was a good little chunker, the main issue with it was Pikos stupid decision to leave the wheel flanges painted limiting the power pick up to the skates only out of the box, removing the paint from the flanges vastly improves the power flow. It was a good little engine to me. But how is the performance now after you weight the engine down? And how do the cars stack up. For a circus set they don't look bad on the pictures:


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel I havent modified the circus set, its still in its box. On flat level ground the engine will pull all the cars but any grade, 1% and up and it spins. I had the earlier Buddy L version I used self adhesive lead tire wieghts to add about 12oz and it pulled alot better on my then flat garden RR. Cars are almost dead on clones for Bmann Big Hauler cars, even the couplers are clones so they pareform well enough. Where I had problems was with the indoor layout, 4% grades and R1 curves, this engine really hated that layout...


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

4% grade and R1 curves does it to a lot of my LGB engines too







unless I weigh them down...

Now the engine might have a Mogul like problem which is not a good puller either. That bases on the siode to side clearance in narrow curves. I have recenlt bought a few spring scales ($4.50 a pop). Now I can objectively measure the pulling power on straight and on curves. We updated a LGB Kork recently and it wlaked away with 1200g pulliing power (better than the 400g it arrived adn that was better than my 100g of the TM 2/2).


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I have a Keystone Circus set. When I purchased it they had to send me 2 more engines before 1 worked without the gears spinning! I have not run it at all because of all the issues with it, so it is a shelf queen! They didn't even want the non running engines back.
The cars are of Bachman quality they work fine! Is it worth $99? **** NO, unless you will run the cars with a DIFFERENT engine. Or you figure each car is worth at least $20-25, then maybe you could rationalize the $99. 
Save up and get a better set! You will be happier. Remermber you get what you pay for..AND sometimes you DON"T get what you paid for!

Bubba


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By adelmo on 19 Jan 2011 09:54 AM 
I would save up for a used LGB Mogul or Cat Switcher (German Made). Excellent buys on ebay. Long term you will be happy. 

I would also recommend buying a "previously experienced" LGB locomotive. I have a fleet of several, in fact, all but two of my current collection have had a previous owner (or two).


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## GnTRailroad (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks for all your input I really appreciate it! I did not get the Piko set by the time my Dad died and taking care of my Mom. I got back to the store it was gone! Must be a sign not to buy it!

Thanks again this forum really helps, 

George


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