# Best Budget Puller?



## mostlyharmless (Dec 11, 2013)

So I've started to make some purchases for the railroad to be. Recently have been picking up some of the Bachmann Big Hauler "heavyweight" type passenger cars. I'd like to run a 5-6 car consist on what should be either flat or very minimal (1%) grades. 

I currently have a USA Trains NW2 that seems like it should be able to handle the load. However, I'd really like to have some steam power for this particular consist. Unfortunately, my budget at the moment is somewhat limited (200-300$ range). I expect to run track power (At least initially) and I don't require either DCC or sound, (though cheap sound would be great if I can finagle that in.) 

Ive seen the LGB 2-4-0s, the stainz, small Pikos in this range. Will any of them be up to the task? I much prefer the look of American running gear and have seen some bashed stainz that are much more American looking, I certainly don't mind doing a little creative work. I've heard they are great pullers, but would they handle that much? Perhaps with a powered tender? 

Any thoughts on this? Does anyone have any experience with this kind of consist? Thanks for any and all answers.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

You can usually find the LGB "Americanized" Stainz for around $250. (Model #2017) It looks good with the Bachmann passenger cars, and with a motor in both the locomotive and tender, will definitely be up to the task of pulling them. (I saw one at Caboose Hobbies the other day for right around that price.) We bought ours 35 or more years ago, and it still runs great! 

They're typically green, though I saw a black one not too long ago. Besides, as the saying goes, "ain't nothing a coat of paint can't fix." 

The other locos you mention should also do well with the trains you're planning. 5 - 6 Bachmann coaches aren't that much of a load.

Later,

K


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Trainworld still shows Four choices of the excellent Bachmann "Annie" anniversary edition 4-6-0 type locomotive for $254.99. Here is the link: http://www.trainworld.com/manufactu...scale/bachmann-steam-locomotives-4/?PAGEN_1=2

Regards,
David Meashey


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Charles Ro has the 0-6-0 Docksider on sale for $375, a good deal, it's heavy, a good puller, works on tight track and has sound and smoke.

Greg


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Greg is correct, here is the link for that USA Docksider, $375. It's a good deal since I paid more than $500 a year ago.
I wonder why the companies do not finance for their products. That's how they can boost sale. For example, how many people would pay $2000 for a steam locos but I bet the sale will be much easier if we can finance.


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

I forgot the link, sorry.
https://bay175.mail.live.com/default.aspx?id=64855#tid=cmIOiYGCLZ4xGtzgAiZMFazg2&fid=flinbox


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## Sjoc78 (Jan 25, 2014)

Saw a couple LGB Moguls for around $200 on Ebay recently; Most of them seemed like they were in great shape maybe only some cosmetic issues. If you can find one of them grab it otherwise I think the suggestions here are spot on.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB Moguls are great engines. They should be able to pull the cars you mentioned. They are not great pullers, but they should be able to handle that load. What is the diameter, radius, of your curves? Tight curves will decrease the ability of any engine to pull a given consist.

Chuck


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

mymodeltrain said:


> I wonder why the companies do not finance for their products. That's how they can boost sale. For example, how many people would pay $2000 for a steam locos but I bet the sale will be much easier if we can finance.


 
This is what a credit card is for.

A small unsecured personal loan is really not worth the cost of originating and servicing, which is why financing rates are exorbitant.

You can buy some Roundhouse and Regner kits in stages, which is another way to spread the cost out.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Chuck,

Need another edit, lol!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

BRO

Thanks, I think I got it this time.

Chuck


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

mostlyharmless said:


> So I've started to make some purchases for the railroad to be.
> Recently have been picking up some of the Bachmann Big Hauler "heavyweight" type passenger cars.


I think everyone understood what you meant, so its all good..
but just FYI and for future reference, the Bachmann cars would not be considered "heavyweights"..
The term "heavyweight" refers to large, steel, standard gauge passenger cars of the 1910's to 1940's timeframe..

Aristocraft makes "heavyweights" in 1/29 scale:









The prototype style of car the bachmann cars are based on are small, made of wood, very light (compared to most passenger cars) 
from the 1870's to 1900 timeframe, and narrow gauge..(photo posted in another MLS thread by "San Juan")








defiantly *not* heavyweights! 


Scot


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## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

A great pulling loco that won't break the bank... take a look at Hartland.
http://www.h-l-w.com/products/locomotives.html
The Big John will out pull just about anything costing 5x as much.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Depends on the type of locomotive you want. The Bachmann Anniversary ten wheelers, LGB American Stainz (2017), Moguls, and Forneys are all good options (I have all 3). They are all available in your price range and are scaled correctly to match the Bachmann J&S cars. The Mogul is the weakest puller (relative to the others), but should do fine with 5-6 cars. My only concern would be if all the cars have the interior lighting with wheel pickups (the two Bachmann coaches I have feature this), which would add a significant drag. Might be worthwhile to consider upgrading to ball bearing pickups for those axles. What color/road name are your coaches? The Bachmann Annie and LGB Mogul in particular have been made in a huge variety of colors, road names, and styles so if you don't see one you like the look of, keep looking. I do not have any Hartland locomotives, but many people on here have good things to say about them. I saw one of the 4-4-0's in person for the first time this last weekend, and honestly wasn't a fan of the look, but if you are, it would be a worthwhile consideration and probably would look good pulling those cars.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I have seen non sound equipted LGB moguls sell in your budget range. Seen a nice yellow/silver 2119d bumble bee Lake George and Boulder one with original box for $250 at the big show in Wheaton IL last weekend. I would hold out till you can get a mogul from LGB, it will handle the cars and more. Mike


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## mostlyharmless (Dec 11, 2013)

Thanks for all the input. Even though it's not prototypical, the cars are UP. So yellow/black. I , as of yet, do not a layout but am planning on running code 250 brass with what will *hopefully* be 14 foot diameter curves for the main with an addition that runs to the front of the hous and will have perhaps an 8 or 10 foot radius loop out front. As far as look I think I like the look of the LGB moguls the best, Ill have to keep my eyes peeled for them. I yake it these Bachmanns are not the same as the ones that come in the big hauler series boxed sets? Battery vs track power?


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

mostlyharmless said:


> Thanks for all the input. Even though it's not prototypical, the cars are UP. So yellow/black. I , as of yet, do not a layout but am planning on running code 250 brass with what will *hopefully* be 14 foot diameter curves for the main with an addition that runs to the front of the hous and will have perhaps an 8 or 10 foot radius loop out front. As far as look I think I like the look of the LGB moguls the best, Ill have to keep my eyes peeled for them. I yake it these Bachmanns are not the same as the ones that come in the big hauler series boxed sets? Battery vs track power?


The 2119 Bumblebee Mogul lettered for the Lake George & Boulder Railroad would probably match them well. It does not have sound, but is readily available in your price range. I'm not sure if LGB ever made a UP Mogul, although they arent difficult to reletter. It's a coal burner. If you want a wood burner that looks more old fashioned, than the 2018 and 2028 would be good choices. They also have the 21181, but personally I'm not a fan of the look (although it may be to other's taste). Like I said, they made a whole bunch of them in different looks over the last 30 years (wood burners, coal burners, modern style, old style, even with vandy tenders), so just browse around till you see one you like.

As far as the Bachmann goes, yes that's different than the one in the Big Hauler. It looks similar, but is much better built. The details on the Anniversary model are much nicer, and the running gear is all metal. I can't speak for what Bachmann is turning out now, but in the past, the Big Hauler starter sets engines were pretty shoddy mechanically. There are upgraded drives out there, but the Anniversary models didn't need them. I have one and she runs like a champ.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

LGB locos, and my thoughts

I am a biased towards LGB. I hate broken toys, missing parts, and as very careful as I am, things seem to happen with repeated handling and the like, but far less to LGB. I find them reliable, and I grew up at a time when stuttering locos and the smell of ozone from the motor was more common. I can repair almost anything, but I hate spending my time HAVING to do this. I like robust trains. There are many better detailed and proportioned, but that matters far less to me if I have to fuss about getting things running nicely. 

I own several each of the locos I describe below. They all run well and have for decades!

By far the most affordable high quality loco for the dollar, imho is the LGB stainz or its variants. To me, you can have a superb garden railroad with a single stainz. It wont look like a wonderful US prototype, but, it will run, and it will do this really really well for a really long time, with virtually no maintenance, in any weather. LGB plastics, the ones from Germany or Europe, are pretty tough and resist UV , cold, and crashes.

stainz-great puller, perhaps the most among all locos, for its size, older metal side rodded ones are bullet proof-newer ones are superb too and better looking, but have plastic (albeit more detailed) side rods /gear. -imho, these locos are the most well engineered loco in G scale-smooth, powerful, well balanced, reliable, forgiving of handling, children, mishaps and roller coaster-like track work. With some work and cleverness, they can be made 'less green and red', and less euro. 

I have a lot of LGB locos, really a lot, and I still love to run these, and probably do more than any other locos, simply because they are hassle free and one handed placement (my locos don't live outside-I move them each time I run) -if you change the domes and cab on a stainz, it is entirely a different looking loco. porter and Forney cabs are good possibilities for this. to re[lace stainz domes, otoh, they must be cut from the boiler and replaced with cast detail ones. if you were to buy two, you could double head, or have a pusher-you could have two of these, bash them into US styles and for not too much extra, build a tender or two on a two axel flat car chassis, or even a shorty 4 axel flat.

2015, 2017-ie stainz with motorized tender-better puller-better pick up due to electrical jumper/ tether between ender and loco-*this is probably the one id most recommend to you* -if you get a good one, you will not have any headaches and only trouble free running. This is the best for off the shelf ready to go to work no extra hassles imho.

porters-I like the german made ones a lot-they are not great pullers, but a pair would be pretty good, but not as good as a pair of stainz

moguls, not bad, and really one of the consummate NG locos- I tend to run 2-4 coaches max

Forney-superb puller-one of my favorites-also one handed placement on the track!this would be my next choice for you-these are really great, look nice, run smoothly, and simply are pleasing-you should know the ones with the larger balloon stack, that stack is a shell/sleeve and pulls up and off to reveal a straight stack within it

Chinese forneys are good, the german ones are a bit better due to plastic and real lead weights instead of alloys used later-they are so close quality-wise I wouldnt worry

2063 Davenport side rod DRGW switcher loco-also a great loco and pulls about as well as the mogul-side rods are delicate 

AND the little stubby 2-4-0, 0-4-0 tender locos are wonderful, and pull very well, as well if not better than the mogul, but, replacement parts are difficult -otoh, these can be found cheaply still and are a nice little loco-I would not overload them-they are very heavy, and overload wear is borne by the idler gears-these are the red haried step child and once you get used to their absurd proportions, they grow on you, and they look great in the garden for some reason-these light and smoke very well and are smooth. the plastic on these is styrene and needs to be handled with a bit of care.


the uintah mallet, or any lgb mallet-not likely in your price range but a great loco(s)-if you look long and hard you might find one closely above the top of your range

and of course the white pass alco diesel-a brute pulls as well as anything, smooth, lots of lights!

something I will mention, if you over load any loco, hopefully it will slip, as this protects, to some extent, the internal gears from excessive wear-bear this in mind. it is always fun to 'see what she'll do', but continuous loads or too much weight in the loco will eventually result in needing replacement parts

if you buy used, condition is very important due to the cost and scarcity of some parts-wheels should be shiny and new in appearance. brass, underneath the plating, is fine, but will pit and oxidize more than the plating-brass means someone has run that loco a great deal! motors are about 60, new smokers about 35, wheel sets and gear sets roughly 25-35 each, so you know. some details such as lamps and pilots and bells and whistles can be hard to find and very pricey. Imho, its cheaper to spend more for better condition.

BTW, sometimes sets will provide an overall better value imho for obtaining stainz or the US 0-4-0, compared to individual pricing


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, since we have branched out quite a bit on choices, I will submit one more. This was not a passenger locomotive, but it is a prodigious puller. I am referring to the HLW Big John/Paul Bunyan locomotives. These locomotives are loosely based on the Dunkirk geared locomotive. Like the Shays, Heislers, and Climaxes, they have two "power trucks," each with its own Pittman motor. The Reindeer Pass Railroad site (a sponsor here) currently lists this locomotive at $299.89 - right at the top of the range.

I really love mine. Below is a photo of the locomotive running on a friend's layout some years ago. This layout had several 3% grades, but they did not faze my locomotive.










Yours,
David Meashey


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## mostlyharmless (Dec 11, 2013)

Thanks again for all of the input, I appreciate all of it. Particularly the LGB information Steve. I was actually really giving the eye to one of those LGB 2-4-0s. They do appear 'stubby' as you said, but on the other hand, I can find one lettered in the UP with smoke and sound for about 200-250 on Ebay. If you think they'll handle 5 of those cars on 1% grade, I'm actually leaning in that direction.....


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

My only issue with the 2-4-0 is the tender has metal wheels and track power does go to it from the engine, but no track power is at the wheels.
So, I figured out a way to add a power pickup to the rear truck. I modified the LGB 63193 to secure it to the rear truck and now this engine/tender runs much better.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Caboose Hobbies has two of the 2017 0-4-0 w/powered tenders for $225 a piece.

Later,

K


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

There ya go...
Jump now...look down later...

I have picked up two great engines this year from C.H. in Denver...and the package gets here so fast tooooo!
...oh a BM 2-6-6-2T Mallet logger!!
............BM 2-6-0 , industrial loco!!
....both in Fn3..

Dirk -DMS Ry.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

mostlyharmless said:


> Thanks again for all of the input, I appreciate all of it. Particularly the LGB information Steve. I was actually really giving the eye to one of those LGB 2-4-0s. They do appear 'stubby' as you said, but on the other hand, I can find one lettered in the UP with smoke and sound for about 200-250 on Ebay. If you think they'll handle 5 of those cars on 1% grade, I'm actually leaning in that direction.....


yes I am sure they will, provided you are accurate with your estimate of grade on your layout, and that you don't have too tight of curves (drag). 

fwiw, while the tender , as mentioned above, does not have power pick up from the tracks to the loco, these locos seem to run very well, as well as a stainz, imho, using 4 wheels and 2 skates. Mine will pull five LGB 4 axel freight cars (lighter than LGB passengers, and no electrical pick ups adding drag) on my layout (barely in certain spots), which has 2-3 % grades. 


They pull well, and the loco is significantly heavier than a stainz, as I judged a few days back by simply trying the 'hand heave' test, but as I mentioned, if you over work the drive, the idlers wear and as I have read, here, they are not readily available. to get accurate info on this, id call train-li and ask if those parts are obtainable, because I have read that they have failed for some owners, but I presume with heavy use/wear.

when I say 'overwork', bear in mind, that while the s'tub' will slip, because of its heft, it slips less easily, and those idlers are bearing more work/wear-so-the thing to remember is while the loco CAN do it, it may be wiser to run a lighter train-like 3 cars.
I am running my two and enjoying them a great deal.
the sound is really quite decent for the price, charming whistle and bell, and absolutely no sync between exhaust and wheels. Mine smoke profusely at slower speeds, which I like.

be advised too, that the 2-4-0 has no front coupler that functions (or which can easily be changed for one that does). the 0-4-0 stubby version does have a functional front loop, allowing that version of the oco to pull in reverse-not so the 2-4-0, fwiw.

HOWEVER
I offer my opinion and bias, and good faith guidance to you
If one is to have only ONE loco (at least for a time) I have to say, for overall reliability and toughness, if I had to chose between that stub and a 2017/2015 IN REALLY GOOD TO LIKE-NEW CONDITION, the latter would be my choice, BECAUSE they have two powered units, better pull, and can run so long, relentlessly, without apparent wear. 

And, the quality is not quite the same between these two. The 2015s are built like a Panzer, with better plastic and possibly a better motors, although the Chinese 0-4-0 is supposed to have a buehler too. My rationale, based on experience, is that your 2015/2017 will not fail and you will be able to run your railroad, happily, as much as you like. I have not put the 'stubbys' to heavy use, and cannot vouch for them in this way. PC or not, I am assuming the Chinese loco will have lesser quality than the german in this regard. I have nothing to support this, only prejudice , I guess., and a few threads here I recall raising 'issues'. 

Fwiw, I have run my Chinese Forneys heavily (ie frequently, but not over loaded) and they run superbly.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

I was at caboose hobbies in Denver yesterday, just looking around. there are at least two 2017-one has a drooping pilot, which didn't look too great.

of note, and at the top of your budget, actually a bit beyond, is what appeared to be a pristine 20251, SRRL 0-4-4 Forney-green boiler and tan cab and bunker-$330-this is a german made one, and I gave it a close look in the case and it appeared to be unrun or nearly unrun-and 

these are really good locos with lots of traction, possibly only second to two motor locos.

if you choose this loco, it is possible to install a front end loop without surgery in the pilot (to replace the link and pin dummy)

this would about meet your desires and needs, pulling power, US style, and, reliability/quality -these really are nice locos-

also, it is somewhat easy to add a leading pilot wheel, as the mogul version is what fits-


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

If you want cheap and versatile, get hold of Jeff at BridgeMasters. He has new Hartland 0-4-0's for <$75. You could put a whole string together for your budget.

This style and similar in various road names:


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## djacobsen (Jul 20, 2011)

I'll second toddalins' suggestion of the HLW 0-4-0T locomotive.
I have a couple of them and they're great runner's & puller's.
HLW's American answer to LGBs' Stainz.
If you can get a new one in the $75.00 range, I'd suggest
being on the phone as soon as Jeff at Bridgemasters opens for
business today. 
No telling how many readers of this thread would
jump at the chance for a new HLW locomotive @ $75.00. 
( I know that _IF_ I didn't already have a couple of them, I'd be on the phone this morning!)

Happy Rails!
Dave


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## mostlyharmless (Dec 11, 2013)

To all of those who answered and chimed in, I *really* appreciate all of your input. I was really leaning towards one of the LGB stains or Moguls, but ended up taking a chance on a Bachmann Annie Ten-Wheeler. (EBT, which as far as I'm concerned is just fine, Nothing a bit of paint and some transfers/decals won't fix! Walchaert's valve gear and coal tender....) I managed to snag a brand new one from a dealer on Ebay for 125 bucks. 

I also called and spoke to Jeff at Bridgemasters who is supposed to call me back about engines tomorrow, I think I'll pick up one of the HLW 0-4-0s assuming they have any left. 

Again, I know some of you gave me some very very good advice on engines, and I'm sure at some point I'm going to add one of the venerable Stainz to my roster, just not today. Thanks again to all who chipped with advice and reasoning. 

-Bill


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The Stainz is European, but the 2015 and 2017 are Americanized versions.
There are many modles/number versions of these locos, over 1 million sold through the years
How to tell, the rear of the American version is open for the coal can be retrieved from the tender, the Stainz has a closed rear cabin and side entry openings.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Dan,
to be precise, the 2017 is the americanised version.
the 2015 was/is sold as european. there are some differences. mainly the domes and the cylinders.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

mostlyharmless said:


> To all of those who answered and chimed in, I *really* appreciate all of your input. I was really leaning towards one of the LGB stains or Moguls, but ended up taking a chance on a Bachmann Annie Ten-Wheeler. (EBT, which as far as I'm concerned is just fine, Nothing a bit of paint and some transfers/decals won't fix! Walchaert's valve gear and coal tender....) I managed to snag a brand new one from a dealer on Ebay for 125 bucks.
> 
> I also called and spoke to Jeff at Bridgemasters who is supposed to call me back about engines tomorrow, I think I'll pick up one of the HLW 0-4-0s assuming they have any left.
> 
> ...


I think you will be happy with the Annie. I've been running mine hard and so far so good. They are good looking engines. I just posted a video of mine in a different subforum. She's pulling a good sized train.


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