# Switch mods for Marty (and others)



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty, you know I'm not posting much on Aristo any more.

But saw your thread and you were getting some "weak" advice. There are specifications for guardrail flange width and many more things. On your #6 Aristo's the first versions (the guard rails are straight and have a slice at each end) had way too wide flangeway widths. The latest versions (with guardrails that have bent ends) are better, but inconsistent, some are almost perfect, some are too wide.

I would recommend that the flangeway width be 0.106 max, minimum .097... there is a spec that shows 0.112" max, but I would not recommend it (there is some "backwards compatibility" in the standards so as not to totally p**s off the manufactures who have been doing it "wrong" for a long time.

I have a page on my site where I list the measurements, the current, the proposed, and the Aristo gauge... The idea was not only to try to make sense of these, but to compare them to the Aristo gauge to see where it could be a convenient tool.

The page is here: CLICK HERE .... scroll down the page to where it mentions the standards and Aristo gauge in bold.

Also, Aristo wheels are ALWAYS gauged way too tight, and the only thing that really matters is the back to back. Even Aristo "engineers" at Sanda Kan do not understand this. I won't publish the facts here, but it's astounding how they do not understand how things work. They is Sanda Kan, one of the largest manufacturers.

Hope this helps,

Greg


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Good stuff, Maynard!! 
Suitably bookmarked for future referrence.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

thanks 
My hand made ones is much harder to hold the guard rail in place that close. but I'm doing it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh, but you have a definite "in" with the manufacturer in that case! 

Seriously, did you grind some of the rail base off to move it close enough? 

I'll tell you that when I worked over my Aristo switches, and gauged my wheels, I went from 6 car trains to 40 car ones... 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes I have to grind some off, about half to make it work for my .100 spacer, but I know over time the spikes may work loose some.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Question...not withstanding that modifying the switches as Greg suggests seems to improve operations, I thought the LS community had COMPLELETLY DEBUNKED the use of NMRA standards for large scale....and that the general preference was to adopt the G1MRA standards...especially for track and wheel spacing. That's US....not the manufacturers. Further...I thought a few months back that one of our own had taken leadership of the NMRA standards group to fix the LS standards. 

So...are the NMRA standards that Greg has in his web site worth a hoot?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

good point Mike, you tell them.. 

BTY 
I like standards but it would be great if we could understand them. being a simple carpenter, why not say 1/8" or 3/32 or something we can look up w/o being a machinest. I understand 45 mm by buying a ruler. 
what is the closets back to back size in commoners terms???

Like Kadee, G 1 1/8" off the rail to center of coupler. give or take a.001 or what ever.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have all the measurements on my site in inches... for some reason, it's easier for me... although my calipers are in both metric and english.

I just added the G1MRA standards to my "track and wheel standards" page on my site.

After looking them over, they just seem a bit "looser" in some dimensions.

Regards, Greg

p.s. you can use the "search" function on my site if you don't want to navigate the menus.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

let me restate that.
I don't understand 1.779"
I do understand 1 3/4"


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

ok.... 1 25/32" .... which is two thousands under... 

OR if you have a really REALLY good tape measure...it's 1 779/1000"

OR as my buddy Bubba said...."bout 1 and three quarters plus a little"


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Right, I understand a hair over or under. 

I understand a butt load of... 
a shade less. 

see keep it simple.


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 
If you haven't done so already, get your self a digital vernier caliper from Harbor Freight... 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47257 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=5658 

It all becomes very self explanatory right away... 

Please trust me on this one...


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Duncan

dang, I'm touched....brought a tear to my eye.
I'll have to look into it. I do have one thats not a dial, but I have a hard time reading it.. or figuring out what it says.

 You have to understand, I learn something, practice it, then two years later I can't remember what or how I did it.
I need to make a sheet metal gauge like the NMRA has for HO. I even thought of blowing theirs up to 1:29th scale.


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 
The neat thing about the digital is that it reads exactly like what you see as numbers on a page... 

If the specification calls for 1.779, and you measure the gap/thickness/height/bore/width, and come up with 1.682. The digital display will read out numbers in exactly the same format as you're used to seeing on a written page... 
You don't have to start placing the decimal point anywhere in your head. It reads straight out on the display. 

I only added a link to a dial type to show the difference in the readout displays. My dial type caliper is 30+ years old, made before digital readout units were commonly available to the average human. Before that, I had one with all the markings on the blade, with no dial. B!tch to read... 

And also believe me that once you start using one of these babies (where you can actually tell what the measurement is), you'll find reasons to play with it. Measuring drill bits for instance, when you get a box full from a shop, and they've mixed fractional and "number" bits together. And none of them are marked... Or measuring paper clips just for fun... Or splitting distances between two points with absolute accuracy (divide the readout by two, and that's the mark point for evenly spaced gaps). You'll find reasons to do this... Honest... 

It's so easy, you won't forget how to use it. And by some odd chance you do, there are folks that will help you remember. 

Heck, I'll bet JJ even has one!!!..  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif

And then you can get a fractional/metric/decimal conversion chart to REALLY make you measuarably magnificent.  (well, okay, versatile...)  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Every think I do is Metric.   I have several different calipers and dial indicators.   It depends on what I am doing.   I have one for paper Thickness.  It is a  C style calaper for  Paper thickness and is digital.   

I have another for measureing   shafts diamiter, bores, depth,  and it is  digital.    Can't beat it.    How ever  my dial indicators  for  looking a  Bent Journals or  caved cyinders and  traming gears  are  the  clock face type.   Those drive me nuts.   I have to sit and try to remember what I am looking and and for. 

I have one that is  in  Microns.  If not set up right the pointer becomes a fan it spins so fast. 

digital is the way to go.   I wish I had the money to convert them all to digtal.  

I have keep a   large supply of batteries on hand because  just  everytime I got to use my digital  the battery is dead./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif

I tried the sloar ones but  they don't work well in dark places.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I found it at O Ralleys auto parts today for $19 
Now I'm an engineer.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I felt the shock wave all the way over here in San Diego! 

Go get 'em Marty! 

Greg


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Have fun with it, Marty!!
(and please let us know if you find that it was $19 well spent...)


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## Jim Francis (Dec 29, 2007)

Marty,

I have both the dial type and the digital type.  Both work great.

That said, I do prefer the digital as it is easier to use when Pre-setting a measurement.

Either way, you wont be dissapointed.

Jim


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I worked on a curve switch the other night and MAN is it hard to brake old habits.

I used the new tool and had to make myself put the MM tape measure away.
My only thoughts aside from the tools is on the curve side gaurd rail , I can see the USAT bigboy taking them all out with its force on them.
I may have to use screws and bolt them together with a spacer.
we'll see.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anyone bolt the guardrail down from the bottom....up through the tie? I would think a 2-48 thread tapped into two or three holes drilled into the bottom of the guard rail segments would provide a solid means to tie them down...make them a bit adjustable...and allow the rail edge to be ground away for the right clearance. Or...doesn't this approach hold up?


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

*Harbor Freight Combination Calipers,* ITEM 92437-0VGA, have a display graduated in 64ths of an inch on the inner portion of the face and 100ths of an inch on the outer portion. As well as the obvious use for direct measurement, they are ideal for measurement conversions to and from fractions.


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