# Converting LGB Mikado 27872 to Airwire



## wincrasher (May 16, 2019)

I ordered a new, leftover LGB Mikado 27872 loco (says it is DCC and has onboard sound & smoke installed from LGB) and want to convert it to Airwire control like my USA Trains Deisels. It's not as easy as a drop-in kit like those. This LGB model looks like it was produced from 2012-2017 and is out of production for now.

I'm reading that LGB is not exactly NMRA compliant, at least on the older units. Are the newer ones compliant? 

Can someone advise me on what I should purchase to convert this unit? Should I get the CONVRTR product and hope it works? CVP stresses it must be NMRA-DCC. Or go with the G3 and do the wiring work?

Should I scrap the onboard sound and go with a Phoenix unit that is recommended for Airwire?

Or is there an easier product to use? I can deal with this loco being a one-off and the rest of my locos on airwire if that is what it takes.

Thanks for any advice for this newbie.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I believe the AW Converter will drive the existing DCC


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Go with the existing DCC as the sound is real good and has an electronic axle sensor for chuff. I am sure the converter will be less $$ than a Phoenix sound unit and definitely be less work.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes, the Converter install is 2 wires in, two wires out.


----------



## wincrasher (May 16, 2019)

right now I don't know what to believe. Got this email response from CVP (Airwire):

"The MTS decoder will have to be removed and discarded since it is not compatible with AIrWire. The loco itself is not an issue. 

You have two choices for adding AirWire to your locomotive:

1. Use the G3 for motion and light control. Add a 3rd party DCC sound module if you also want sound effects;

2. Use an AirWire C60X CONVRTR plus a 3rd party DCC Sound+Motion+lights decoder such as are available from Soundtraxx or TCS. 

CVP"

would this sound board do the job? Soundtraxx TSU 750 Heavy Steam Sound Decoder.
or should I go with the Pheonix P8? I have the Pheonix in my USAT deisels, and a Soundtraxx that came in my Piko Mogul.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Airwire's response may be referring to the older LGB MTS stuff. Dan's more in tune with the variations of LGB's MTS stuff than I am, but I believe the MTS3 line of components were fully DCC compatible. If the loco dates from 2012, that's after Marklin bought LGB. I would think the decoder technology would be Marklin's updated technology which is DCC compatible. 

Here's my suggestion...

Buy the Convertr60. Hook 14 - 20 volts (whatever batteries you intend to use) to the input of the Convertr. Hook the output to the pick-up skates of the locomotive. Turn on the power and see what happens. If it runs and you have control over all the sound and light functions, then you're in business. Whatever flavor of MTS that is installed is DCC compatible. If it doesn't run, or you can't control the light/sound functions, then you've got the older LGB electronics which you would then need to remove and replace with a new DCC motor/sound decoder. Either way, you're going to need the Convertr, so you're not wasting money there. 

For a replacement decoder, any of the high-capacity decoders on the market will work well. I use the 4-amp Tsunami2 decoders from Soundtraxx and the 5-amp WowSound decoders from TCS. You can get them for between $140 - $160ish. I prefer these decoders because the motor control on both of them is very good, and both pack entire sound libraries already programmed onto the decoder itself, allowing you to pick from 90-something whistles and 60-something bells, numerous air pumps, chuffs, etc. all without needing any external computer software or interface. The more expensive boards ($200ish) from ESU, Zimo, and Massoth are very good as well, but you either need to have your dealer program the sounds for you, or you need to buy a programming interface to go between the board and your computer to change the sound files. 

Later,

K


----------



## wincrasher (May 16, 2019)

Thank you so much for your detailed response. The loco is brand new, in the box from Trainworld. The information sticker on the box says 7/2018, so it must be from the end of the production run. Sadly, it also says "made in China" on it.

I received it today in the Fedex, and I must say, I'm in love with the look of it. I wanted that big locomotive look, but able to run on some tighter radius'. What you suggest is the way I was leaning - an incremental approach without wasting $ needlessly. Thanks again.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

When running modern DCC decoders, go with the higher voltages as the decoders need up to 7 volts just to get active. 14 volts may be OK for slow steam, but not good for most diesels. I would suggest you go for 22 volts to be on the safe side to be able to run anything. On my DCC layout I have 24 volts of DCC power (My supply is 30 volts as there is a 6 volt drop in the electronics).


----------



## wincrasher (May 16, 2019)

Dan, thanks for the suggestions. I discussed this issue directly with CVP (Airwire). They strongly urged me to stick with 14.8 volt batteries on my trains. They said that higher than that causes interference and other problems.

If you are talking transformers, then I assume you are getting voltage drops, so it's not quite 24 volts at the train's pickups?

FWIW, the USA Trains spec's say 0-22 volts, and the LGB 27872 says 0-24 volts. That is why I questioned them about going with the 22.2 volt battery that Reindeer Pass is selling. They advised me against going with that.

My layout is pretty flat and many curves, some with tight radius'. So hill climbing and high speed are not really desires at this time. Longer run times is what I really want.

My plan currently is to go with a single 14.8 volt battery in each locomotive. Down the road, I think I can add a second battery in parallel and get more range, but maintain the same voltage. Those dual motors in the USAT's I'm sure draw down a batttery fairly quickly.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

My Command station does supply 24 volts to the track!! That is why Zimo uses a 30 volt supply for the command station as it has a 6 volt drop in the output.
Also note that the NMRA spec is 22 volts but lists a 27 volt max. Europe tends to use 24 volts as their spec. such as Zimo for large scale.
Also note that LGB used 24 volt motors, therefore full speed will not be obtained with a 14 volt battery for the fast electric/diesel locos.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

wincrasher said:


> Dan, thanks for the suggestions. I discussed this issue directly with CVP (Airwire). They strongly urged me to stick with 14.8 volt batteries on my trains. They said that higher than that causes interference and other problems.
> 
> If you are talking transformers, then I assume you are getting voltage drops, so it's not quite 24 volts at the train's pickups?
> 
> ...


With out the need for speed you will be good with the 14.8V battery, you may be suprised on the run time you will get with one battery. We have sold many, many of them.


----------



## wincrasher (May 16, 2019)

thanks for that. The CVP people told me to expect no more than 2 hours with that battery and the USAT diesel.

the cool thing about this is that if I want to try a higher voltage battery, it's just a matter of getting one and plugging it in - there is nothing to set in the airwire system, it will adjust automatically.


----------



## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*Airwire converter 6.0 into LGB Mikado*

I suggest you go with East Broadtop's suggestion of Airwire converter 6.0 into LGB Mikado. I have this configuration. For detail on how to wire the loco for the two-wire input, search pimanjc here on MLS. I have narrative and pictures. The archive was not for the airwire, but the engine wiring addition [ DPDT switch between brown track feed wires and board input.]. 
As to the Airwire 6.0, you may need to enter DCC codes to change the Airwire output to 14 speed steps to match the Mikado [Depending on age of engine]. If the speed steps on the decoder and the Airwire are mismatched, there will be a variety of issues including lights flashing, irratic running, etc. 
Jim Carter


----------



## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*picture on my post*

I have no idea where that picture of a board with string and pully came from. I don't know how to get rid of it either. This is the first time I have been on MLS in a year, since I got nerve damage to my arm and hand.
JC


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Jim, I edited your sig line to remove the photo. Wish I had an explanation to why the photos are fubar, but nothing I an do about that.

Later,

K


----------

