# Louise Valley Lumber Co. - My little logging railroad



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hello folks,

I just like to show you my little logging railroad in 1:20.3-scale.
I've a T-boiler Shay and a Climax, both livesteam and made by Accucraft, but customized by my self.

The Shay was an open cab one and I added a wooden cab. The loco is equipped with radio control. Meanwhile I added some clutter as can be seen in the video below.
The Climax is new to my railroad and is not converted to RC yet. I look forward to get RC installed within the month. Both locos have chuffers installed. I also like to install a whistle.


















Here's a short video clip on YouTube, filmed on 24th december 2013. It was often asked for the minimum radius for these locomotives. Accucraft says 4 feet, this is PIKO-Track with 3 feet and the locos have no problems with it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI71j5txd8U&edit=vd 

More to come later.

Cheers, Gerd


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Gerd- 

Nice looking locos, thanks for posting. Good info on radius, I have that Piko 3 ft radius on one loop of mine, and did wonder if those live steam locos could negotiate them. 

Jerry


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a question for you. first I do not run steam but have thought about it why do some live steamers run their trains in reverse instead of pulling their cars.pete


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Jerry,

I was also not sure about the radius. I searched on the forums and internet and most people say that 4 feet like given by Accucraft is mandatory.
So I ordered one piece of Piko 3ft track and just tested them and it turned out to work fine. I bought the other 11 track pieces and now I can run the locos in circles. As you may see on the video, my garden is very small and I had to deal with the 3ft radius since 4ft wouldn't fit.

By the way - both locos are, as far as I know, from the first run of Accucraft. The Shay was bought second hand and showed typical "issues" knwon from the first run locos. The Climax was bought this year, but was stored for a long time at the dealer and also seems to be one of the first runs locos.

What I recommend is - test your loco on such a piece of track to be sure. Maybe later build engines cause trouble on these tiny curves.

Bye, Gerd


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Also great looking engines.pete


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi pete,

there's no special reason for that.
I run my locos in both direction since I've no turning facilities on my mobile layouts. It was just a chance that both locos are runnig in reverse on my video.

One of my ideas is, that Accucraft makes hand operated locos and it's easier to handle with throttle and reverse gear when running them in reverse.

Gerd


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pete on 02 Jan 2014 07:11 AM 
I have a question for you. first I do not run steam but have thought about it why do some live steamers run their trains in reverse instead of pulling their cars.pete 


The engines did not always have a way to turn the engine around. Look at the Strasburg RR. The engine pulls you going forward but then at the end it goes into a passing siding and then pulls the cars in reverse back to the station. In logging they usually had no means to turn an engine around, especially in the woods. The only way out was in reverse. I always liked the look of a logging engine pulling cars in reverse. I think its more A preference then anything and is more prototypical if you run both was.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys;

The same conditions were true for the Wanamaker, Kempton & Southern tourist railroad when I was helping-out there in the 1970s. The Porter saddle tank switchers faced south and could not be turned. We always left Kempton station with the locomotive in reverse. One benefit I got from operating that way was that I could run a locomotive as well with my right hand (backwards) as I could with my left (forwards).

Best,
David Meashey


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Many locos had cowcatchers fitted to their tenders as a nod to being bidirectional. 

John


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Gerd- At one time I was contemplating a LS shay, but hesitated with my curves. I have since installed a new larger loop with 5 ft 6 in radius curves, so most smaller locos will be ok. But there is that S curve that sometimes gives me fits, it is not only radius that effects our running ability... 

Jerry


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

OK sorry about the multiples, there was simply no response when I hit submit.......NOAA is weird tonight also, maybe something to do with the blizzard?


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Naptowneng on 02 Jan 2014 06:12 PM 
Gerd- At one time I was contemplating a LS shay, but hesitated with my curves. I have since installed a new larger loop with 5 ft 6 in radius curves, so most smaller locos will be ok. But there is that S curve that sometimes gives me fits, it is not only radius that effects our running ability... 

Jerry 
Jerry I have a curve just a tad under 6ft dia and my Shay runs through it fine both ways. Running it where the cylinders are on the outside of curve will work better on smaller dia. . Has more flexibility that way. Im not sure what the tightest dia it will run that way though.....


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks Shawn, I was actually contemplating getting a Cataonic (SP?) Shay at one time and was cautioned on the curve ability of that loco 
Still looking for my next one at present 

Jerry 

Plowing tomorrow morning, looks like 3 inches of fluff out there


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Jerry, 

I guess you mean one of the Catatonk Shays. I'm not sure if they will negotiate such a tiny radius too. 

All in all it's a question of the universal and slip joints between the steam engines crankshaft and the trucks drive shaft. 
I take the Accucraft-Shay for example as I know her well enough. 

If you look to the front truck side, the universal joint on the truck is far left to the center of the truck where the pivot point is located. Important is the distance between the trucks pivot point and the universal link. If the truck starts to pivot, the location of the universal joint side moves a long way and causes a sharp bend to the drive shaft on tight curves. The slip joint has to negotiate a long distance in left turns and has to be very short in right turns. 
Troubles are caused by disconnected slip joints (mostly in in left turns) or the universal joints have to bend to far so the outer ring may bump to parts of the truck or just the inner universal link head will bump to the ring (this can happen in both left or right turns) 

By moving the universal joint closer to the center of the truck (to the right), narrows the side move when the truck pivots. You've to install a longer slip joint connection between the universals which will run smoother when the overlapping in the middle is longer on left turns but you've to make them short enough to negotiate right turns, where the shaft is in his shortest length. 

Having a look at the Climax for comparison, the truck universal joint is in the center line and close to the inner wheelset and finally closer to the trucks pivot point. The side move of this joint on curves is shorter, so there's only a little extension in the slip joint needed. This position also requires only to lengthen the slip joint on both side turns. The shortest position is on staight track. 

Best of all styles is the Heisler loco where the universal joint is located nearly at the pivot point itself and the slip joints move is little. 

I spend a lot of research to this topic while building my 2"-scale Shay which is able to run on 3.8 meters radius 

But the drive shaft isn't the only limit for the minimum curve radius. The trucks may bump to the buffer beams and at all, the locos are very long and the couplers will overhang badly on tighter curves than 3ft. I recommend that 3ft is the minimum to operate the Accucraft geared locos. 

At least, try to figure out what the minimum radius on a real Shay was and you may wounder... 3ft by 1:20 scale conforms 60ft in real and that might be quite tight for a real narrow gauge Shay. Even the recommended 4ft radius is tight for a real railroad.

Cheers, Gerd


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

I like Shays, 
I have them by Geoffbuilt, Catatonk (Argyle, Chaney and a never produced vertical boiler converted to coal firing-that's another story), Accucraft and Regner. My first garden railway was a figure 8 with 4' radius curves and the Geoffbuilt did well. The second version had 5' radius curves (as does my show-going portable) and they all do just fine. Get a Shay Jerry, 
Tom


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Gerd- Thanks for the detailed analysis, very informative. I am fond of geared locomotives and will continue my search. Tom, thanks for the moral support! 

Jerry


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I love my Shay. The Train Dept has a Catatonk for sale. Im considering the Class A Climax Regner is coming out with hopefully in 2014 sometime.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gerd on 03 Jan 2014 01:19 AM 
...


At least, try to figure out what the minimum radius on a real Shay was and you may wounder... 3ft by 1:20 scale conforms 60ft in real and that might be quite tight for a real narrow gauge Shay. Even the recommended 4ft radius is tight for a real railroad.

Cheers, Gerd The standard gauge Mount Tamalpais and Muir Woods Railway operated Shays down to a 70' radius. So 60' for NG would not be out of the world. And yes, while the Shay was the workhorse of the woods, Heislers could go "around a stump" - meaning they could negotiate very sharp curves, while the Climax just needed "two scratches in the dirt" for track - meaning it could run on very bad trackwork. So each type of geared loco had its specific niches.

Regards


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