# Burner Howl and Running Time



## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Burner Howl and Running Time 


For some time I’ve been watching articles and forum posts regarding burner howl without taking action. Then, the article "How to cure burner howl" in the June ‘09 issue of Garden Railways moved me to try something to fix the howl in my Accucraft C-21. I tried the author’s suggestion of a coil of wire to slow the burner gases in the burner tube without success. Next, I decided to try some alternatives of my own. I experimented with a piece of ½ x 4 inch stainless steel screen wire formed into an "ocean wave" (i.e., sinusoidal, about half the height of the burner tube) slipped into the front of each of the C-21s burner tubes. Lighting the burners was a bit touchy, but the wire screen glowed with radiant heat, adding extra heat to make steam. I had also been having trouble with keeping one of the jets burning so I experimented with a burner jet sold by Accucraft as a "Ruby jet" in that burner and burner problem sent away. The result was no burner howl and about a 30% increase in run time per fuel fill. 


I also tried the same idea on my Accucraft 3 Cylinder Shay which had been giving poor 15 to 16 minute runs per fuel fill. Adding the ½ x 4 inch "ocean wave" shaped stainless screen piece nearly doubled the run time. I also changed the Shays burner jet nozzle to a "Ruby jet". Remarkably, the combination of both of these changes has more than doubled the running time of my Shay (35 to 36 minutes). 


Applying the stainless screen to my Accucraft Ruby produced about 30% increase in run time. However, the stainless steel screen piece was smaller, about 3/8 x 2 inches and formed into an upside down "W" shape, placed at the front of the burner tube.


Run times indicated above were on my on-the-ground railroad with grades up to 4%, with locos radio controlled, and hauling a train appropriate to their size. One note of caution. About every 9 to 15 minutes (depending upon the boiler size), I added water using a Goodall Valve and pump to insure the burner tube is covered by water.


I consider that adding stainless steel screen pieces to burner tubes is a fairly easy fix to gain the improvements in run time. Changing burner jets in these Accucraft locos is only a little more difficult.


emartin187 SA 360


Thunder Valley Narrow Gauge Railway.


Builder of Martin Track Sweeper Cars and Martin TrakrTotes


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Martin(?), 
though I can imagine how your idea works, could you post a picture? 
Regards


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## rivets (Jun 17, 2009)

Since I ran my Ruby kit for the first time Monday (ran great) I am curious about improvements like yours. I'll be applying a Goodall valve for more running since I ran out of water before fuel every run. The screen would be a great addition. Do you have a common source for stainless screen? Window size or something finer? 

Thanks, John


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Henner, About the only photo I could do is the small piece of screen. Everything else is inside the loco. I don't currently have a photo, but I'll try to get one. 

John, It must be stainless steel but it looks like window screen. A Metals sales outfit might have it. That's where I got mine. 

Earl


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Excellent info, Earl. My 3 cyl. Shay gets only ~15-20 minutes with mesh wrapped around the outside of the burner tube and with the stock jet. I'm going to try your "wave" insert and probably the Ruby jet. What kind of pressure did it maintain during the run?

Where are you guys getting your Goodall valves?


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Jim

The boiler pressure was maintained between 30- 40psi. I ran several runs on my railways loop which has 4% grades hauling empty log cars and a caboose getting the run times I mentioned in my post. But, my during first run after making these changes, my shay was hauling my 17 pound log train around my railway loop. I also ran the train up and down my 6% switchback line and my 8% climb to my steamup area. I didn't describe that run before because few people have those grades. 

You asked where I got the Goodall valves. Mark at St Albins in Vegas has some.

Earl


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I gather that this "ocean wave" piece of screen is inside the burner, not sewn on top of the slots, correct?


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Dwight 

Correct, the "ocean wave" piece of SS screen is inserted into the front of the burner tube from the smokebox. 

Earl


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## nbirk (May 24, 2009)

Is there any issues that could be had by having this piece of glowing red hot wire directly touching the inside of the burner tube/boiler? Or am I misunderstanding how it`s sitting? Am I right that you simply form the wire, and slide it in from the front and it sits inside the tube resting on the insides of the tube?


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Guys 

The screen slides into the burner tube and sits on the lower part of the burner tube. However, the surface area in contact with the burner tube is very small and I take care to keep water in the boiler replenished frequently. 

I have a couple of pix which I can attach, if I can figure out how to do it. Advice?

Earl


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Posted By emartin187 on 06/18/2009 1:10 PM
Guys 

The screen slides into the burner tube and sits on the lower part of the burner tube. However, the surface area in contact with the burner tube is very small and I take care to keep water in the boiler replenished frequently. 

I have a couple of pix which I will attach. The first is two pieces of SS screen, the lower at the start, the upper showing the "ocean wave" bends. The other photo is my Shay cllimbing my 6% switchback with my 17 pound log load.

Earl


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Earl, I don't SEE anything, and I am very interested in how you did this. Nick Jr
PS unfortunately I don't know how to post pics either.


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Posted By emartin187 on 06/18/2009 1:10 PM
Guys 

The screen slides into the burner tube and sits on the lower part of the burner tube. However, the surface area in contact with the burner tube is very small and I take care to keep water in the boiler replenished frequently. 

I have a couple of pix which I will attach if I can figure out how to do it. 

Earl


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I still don't see anything, please tell me what I am doing wrong. Is there something I am supposed to click on?? Nick Jr


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Guys

Sorry for the delay, I had to resize the pix in order to submit them.

The first shows the Stainless Steel screen before bending on the bottom and as bent into the "ocean wave" at the top

The other photo is my live steam Shay climbing my 6% switchback grade with my 17 pound log load

Earl


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Earl, thank you, I will try it. What size mesh screen did you use. Nick Jr


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Nick 

The SS screen I have looks like ordinary window screen wire mesh but with stiffer wire. 

Earl


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Earl, you said you put the screen below the poker. I assume your poker has the burner slots on the bottom, my burner slots are on the top so I should put the screen on top of the poker to get the most heat, right? Nick Jr


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Nick 
The wire goes in the front of the burner tube the opposite end from the burner 
Earl


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## steam8hack (Feb 11, 2008)

That "Burner Tube" thing is called a "Flue" - makes this whole Flue Wave Screen thing understandable. 

Cheers.


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## nbirk (May 24, 2009)

I tried your suggestion in my Edrig. I used the same dimensions of steel mesh and I`m not sure if I`m doing everything correct, but I only noticed about 1 or 2 minutes extra running time. My Edrig is still fairly new with about 4 hours running time but I still expected a bit more time. 
Now my mesh was made wavey, and pushed into the flue as best I could. I don`t know if I used too much mesh or not enough. A little bit was hanging out the front but I tried to push it all in. I suspect it may have all crumpled up once inside the flue. The whole mesh was not glowing red, just the bit closest to the burner. My mesh was situated in front of the burner, on top of the steam tube that runs through the flue and towards the top half of the flue as the steam tube is down the bottom half.
Does any of what I`ve done sound correct or incorrect to you?

Cheers
Neil


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Neil

I found that I had to use shorter "waves" for shorter burner tubes. As I explained, the one for the Ruby was more like a short upside down "W" shape. Also the longer running time was in part due to the smaller burner jet size.

Earl


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

I used that term because I wasn't sure everyone knew the term Flue (also called fire tubes) 
Earl


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

What I did with my Aster K4 was to make a tube of stainless mesh about 1/8 inch wider than the burner. I then coiled some 1/16 inch stainless wire around the burner and slipped the tube over the burner, securing it in place with more stainless wire. Lighting it is really hard but once alight it seems to work well.

I boorowed the technique from an article on www.southersteamtrains.com - the link is http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/notes/radiantpokerburners.htm


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Earl, I FINALLY got it. The heat going through the flue past the burner which would normally be wasted now heats the screen and it is conducted to the boiler, right?? Nick Jr


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick - Basically a radiant burner but with the radiant part in front of the burner instead. Similar to your Heisler.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Earl, I made the mesh wave and slid it down the flue of my Mogul, boy did it GLOW. It adds heat to the area of the flue where the poker doesn't reach. It was raining pretty hard yesterday so I didn't have a chance to track test it, hope weather is better today. Thank You Nick Jr.


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