# Metal wheels



## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I have a Aristo starter set that came with plastic wheels on the couch. During several trips through the Tucson Garden RR Society annual open house I've noticed that some have cars with plastic wheels and others have metal? I'm using track power and building to use DCC and not planning on pulling 50 car trains as my general theme is late 1800's to early 1900's in the Southwest. My smallest curve is/will be 10' diameter. At $40 for 2 pair of ball-bearing wheels of E-Bay I'm wondering if going metal is the best way to go short of winning the Lotto. Also heard folks talking about plastic wheels leaving residue on the tracks during our warm summer months. All assistance is greatly appreciated.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are on a limited budge go with Bachmann Large Scale metal wheels. They run about $17 a set of 4 axles, 8 wheels, or less, I have used them for a couple years now, and I have no complaints!! Regal 



92421 is the Bachmann part number and the "Evil Bay" may be less just watch.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the info. Not easy to "sell" a set of wheels that costs nearly as much as a new car.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you are going to pull short trains, less than 10 cars, you really don't need ball bearing axles. Metal wheels will greatly improve the performance of the cars. They add weight, lower the center of gravity, both of which help keep the cars on the track.

Other factors are maximum grade on the layout and the radius of the curves that you are using on the layout. 


I can pull 32 LGB iron ore cars with my Aristo Mallet with out any problems. The cars have plain metal wheels. No ball bearings.


Chuck


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I have all plain metal wheels, and run 10 - 20 car trains with no problems. The only cars that have ball bearing wheels are my battery cars.

Don


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## trainsbt (Jan 11, 2008)

From my own experience I found that AMS Passenger cars benefit from ball bearing wheels. On some other manufacturers that have wiper pick-ups to light interiors using track power, I used LGB's ball bearing wheelsets with electrical pick-ups. Don't know if they are still available, though.

Anything else I have had no problem with regular metal wheelsets.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I pull 50 car trains and no ball bearings, I just use more locos. 

Be aware, while ball bearings reduce rolling friction, they don't necessarily have an advantage over free turning metal wheels. On curves and on hills the difference is not so noticeable. 

On curves, if you put the ball bearings in the journals, you are doing nothing to have the "differential action" of different wheel speeds needed for inner and outer rail. 

Up a grade, you still have the energy required to "lift" the train... ball bearings cannot overcome gravity! 

So far, I have not seen where I would use ball bearings over plain bearings in most cars, as opposed to using the money to have another loco pull the train up the grade. 

Of course, it's a much lower friction method of power pickup for lighted cars, but it also has it's downside, high current will quickly pit the ball bearing races and they won't conduct well. 

Of course using LEDs lowers the current radically. 

Point is, not a cut and dried decision irrespective of the cost. 

Regards, Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

All my Rolling stock has metal wheels. I bought what ever was on sale at train shows. Mostly at the Queen Mary Big Train show. ST Aubins always had some metal wheels on sale. The only rolling stock I have bearings on are my USAT Five Car Articulated container cars. I have three set. It made a huge difference in drag reduction. I also run long trains 35 and more cars. 

If you are going to run short trains say 10 cars or less then you do not need bearings. 
I would convert to Metal wheels because they add extra weight to the cars and lower the center of gravity. The cars stay on the track better with metal wheels. 
I leave gaps in my track at the joints. I run battery power. I like the noise the metal wheels make as they go over my joints. 

JJ


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

With regards to using ball-bearings and metal wheels for your trucks, I have three ride-on 1.5" cars. One is a caboose, one is a refrigerator car and one is a model of an old wood gondola circa 1905-1910. The caboose and gondola both have "half-brass bearings". Exactly like the prototype including the "cotton waste" with lube oil, in the journal boxes. AND yes, I have had "hot boxes"! Both roll very well, but have to replace the half-brass about once a year. The reefer is on Andrews trucks with ball-bearings. The wheels on all three pieces of rolling stock are cast iron pressed onto the axles. The wheels do not roll independently of each other. The point I am making is that these are 1/8th scale cars and I don't think you will find much difference in rolling characteristics of these cars to 1/24, 1/20.3 or 1/29th. The physics are probably close. I DO believe that metal wheels are far superior to plastic wheels. JMHO.









All of my 1/20.3 rolling stock runs on metal wheels with ball-bearings (all work done by Phil Dippel at Phil's Narrow Gauge). I just had Phil do the tender trucks on my Accucraft C19. I also have ball-bearing trucks under the tender of my Connie. Because I'm narrow gauge, I probably won't be running 30-40 car trains! But I don't think it will hurt to give the drive-train a break in my engines having ball-bearing wheels.







It's kind of a cost that's expected in large scale.


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

I have used Bachmann metal wheels for 10 years. No problems. Better roll and no deposits on my track. Try them.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'll give another nod for Bachmann's wheels. They're cheap, and they roll rather well. I've been using them as replacemetns on cars that didn't already have metal wheels and on my scratchbuilt cars. In terms of how they roll compared to others' metal wheels, they're quite on par. Individual cars may have differing results, but on the whole, their performance is equal. I don't use ball bearings, I just keep the journals lubricated. 

A quick "caution" about ball-bearing wheels on two fronts: First, on the wheels where the ball bearings are between the wheel and axle (i.e., the wheel turns freely on the axle) watch to make sure there's no "wiggle" in the bearing that might cause the wheel to go out of square with respect to the axle when sufficient weight applied. This will cause the gauge of the wheelset to narrow, which may cause issues with your track. I don't know how prevalent that problem is. I've only seen one manufacturer's wheels where that was remotely an issue (and it took a lot of weight), but it's something to keep in the back of your mind if you're considering that style of ball-bearing wheelset. Second, if you're going to be doing prototype operations (switching cars) then I'd be tempted to shy away from the ball bearing wheels. They roll _too_ easily, so when you go to try to couple to it, the car just bounces off the coupler and rolls further down the track. Metal wheels in "regular" friction bearings (plastic, diecast, or brass journals) tend to have just enough static friction to allow the cars to couple before starting to move. 

Later, 

K


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Sierra Valley wheels, best deal on the market as far as I’m concerned. They have heavier axels & wheels plus a better profile than most. The price is the same or cheaper plus a wide selection of sizes. All this and made in the US by Garry Watkins in California. http://www.sierravalleyenterprises.com/


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## trainsbt (Jan 11, 2008)

When it comes to choice of wheels, you have also to consider scale vs. non-scale. Most of the metal wheels have overlarge flanges just like the plastic versions, while some have scale flanges. Both have operating challenges, i.e. going through switches, etc.

Since the original question was regarding a starter set, the Bachmann wheels should work - also, they are blackened, and are usually found at decent prices online. 


Another 2¢ added.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't know the cost, but AML just changes their wheels to beautifully CNC machined and plated with a stainless steel axle. They might also be available as parts. 

I've used Bachmann wheels, about the lowest cost around, but get 10-20% with wobble that I don't like. It does not really affect operation, just looks crappy. But they are cheap. 

I've not had the excessive runout issue on ball bearing wheelsets, but I've tossed cheap ones because they quit picking up power reliably, so maybe the wobble was soon to follow. 

Regards, Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

I use metal wheels on all my stock. I also use sealed ball bearings, in the journals in most cases. My layout is basically flat, but there are occasional dips. I really like the wheels and ball bearings because I like longer trains. I also know that there are different trains of thought on the use of ball bearings, although there doesn't appear to be to much disagreement in the use of metal wheels. I do know, that in certain parts of my layout, if I don't have an engine attached, the cars will roll very freely to get to level. You can take a look at one of my youtube videos to show you what I can do with a single SD45.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkIH4llFfRA&feature=g-all
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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, you will see the most difference on a level layout. You theoretically would get lower rolling resistance on curves with independent ball bearings (ball bearing in the hub of each wheel), but over the years, it has not shown to be a big advantage. Some of this type of BB wheels are sealed, and the friction of the seal seems to zero out the advantage of independent wheels. 

Greg


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I like Gary Raymond wheels, since I like 1/32nd, he has that size and regular sizes. Also ball bearing ones, I put those in my Pioneer Zephyer, with pickups. Sierra Valley are good wheels also, as mentioned, but he does not have the 1" I like with my 1/32nd cars.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

All my rolling stock has been converted to metal wheels... Adds weight and lowers the center of gravity. 98% of them are Bachmann....


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Gary Raymond makes great wheels.
Most of the metal wheels I use are from the major manufacturers, as I try to use standardized ball bearings. I use a lathe to cut down axles to fit the ball bearings, and I drill out the journals, where necessary, to get the bearings to fit there. I do this for both freight and passenger wheels.
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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

To resurrect an old thread........ 

I just received my Bachmann metal wheels for my Bachmann passenger cars (the Royal blue Line). I thought I ordered the wrong wheels, but when measuring the metal and plastic wheels they looked identical (31mm). When I installed them the rubbed against the brake shoes. I had to break out Mr. Dremel to grind down the shoes to make them fit. I was surprised just how much I had to remove do the wheels would turn freely. All's well now and the train runs much more smoothly.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Poor Fryekop has probably gotten more discussion on metal vs plastic wheels than he (maybe she) originally wanted..LOL. I have purchased some metal wheels from Stan and agree you can find a lot of goodies out there and everyone has hit all the key issues. I like my rolling stock to feel a little more substantial and four metal axles will do that. It also prevents me at 62 from accidently brushing the lighter cars off the track as easily. I'm using battery and track power, so I liked the comment about how the stock runs through the switches. I will often run a train in reverse and that will often tell you more about your track laying (leveling) abilities and how well your switches are performing. I notice less derailments during that exercise with the metal wheel sets. I also picked up some good hints on manufacturers and costs....so, good post!! Ed


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I got a couple more pieces of rolling stock for Christmas.  The comment was made "Well at least now we know what to get him." when wife put out the Christmas list. And it actually worked. Plans for the coming year, now that I finally got the layout site built, is laying track. As usual with larger Aristocraft stock (boxcar) I got the ad for 6 sets of wheels for $100 (rounded the price off). Guess I'll have to take them up on the offer later in the year when I can start rolling the rolling stock  
Best to all for a great New Year.


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## K.A.Simpson (Mar 6, 2008)

I thought that some years back there was a post about buying the bearings from a non garden railway company and installing them, then adding new steel wheels. 
Anyone have an idea of this post as I would like to try the conversion from plastic wheels to steel, and then try added bearings. 

Graham who lives across the road from me, is trying plastic wheels on some wagons and has added steel washers, glued to the back of the wheels. It seems to work but is a lot of fiddling about but experimentation brings about some great ideas. 

Also this seller makes cheap wagons from timber, plastic wheels & includes couplings etc. which includes free postage. Makes is great bashing material. If fitted with the extra steel wheels they are great. 

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/pasidump/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3984.m1543.l2654 



Regards from Andrew 
Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Metal wheels will make your cars more stable while running, and will not melt onto your tracks. They lower the center of gravity, and that's good. I've been using San Val metal wheels since the days San Val was in business. You can still get them, they're called EZ Roll now. 

I wouldn't spring for roller bearing wheels, unless you're pulling MUCH longer trains than you've indicated. I've only used ball bearing wheels when I put was trying to reduce the drag on my passenger cars. 

Be careful when replacing wheels. They're not all the same size, either the plastic or the metal ones. And that affects coupler height, which affects coupler reliability, which affects your frustration level.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Just got my shipment of metal wheels (blackened axles and the spoked variety) from Sierra Valley Enterprises. Delivery was excellent and the quality is very good. I agree with Dan P. that the quality product is worth the time and money. My two cents (especially since the penny might disappear). Ha. Ed


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't think plastic wheels are guilty of all the crimes they're accused of, but I figure the cost of metal wheels into anything I buy, just 'cause they're nicer. The cars are heavier, roll smoother and stay on the track better with metal wheels. I always put aristo metal wheels on my cars, till one day the dealer I was buying a car from was out of them. He talked me into a set of Bachmann wheels. I can't find anything not to like about them and they cost about half as much. I've been buying the Bachmann wheels since. Since I model oldish standard gauge American freight, I haven't worried about spokes.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They are of a lower quality level than the CNC machined ones, and have more "bad" ones, like wheels with wobble. 

You get what you pay for. 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Other than the ball bearings and Aristos brass bushing in the side frame for non ball bearing, I have one other comment on types of metal wheels. 

Many are solid and are very heavy such as the USA trains wheels. 

LGB and Train-Li have plastic hubs and metal rims which makes them much lighter than the solid ones. Many mfg have plated wheels, Train-Li has stainless rims. USA is brass with plating and the black wheels are painted. 

I agree with Greg, just add an engine to pull more cars, that is what the real ones do!!


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