# Aristocraft Dash 9 - Necessary to Disconnect Track Power Pickups?



## RodSten (Jun 14, 2013)

I am in the process of converting to battery power. If I set the switch under the hood in each Dash 9 from Track Power to Battery Power, and I never plan to send power to the track, is it necessary to disconnect the track power pickups. If so, how is this done? 

I am using a Cordless Renovations 18.5 volt 5600 ma battery and a CR-1 charger in a trailing battery car, with a QSI Titan Decoder and GWire receiver in the Dash 9, and an NCE GWire Powercab.


Thanks, 
Rod


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## Henson (Jan 2, 2008)

No, just move the switch to battery.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You need to verify with a meter that neither battery lead is still connected to a track pickup (wheel).... 

Historical issue with Aristo, wiring varies between production runs, and even within a run. 

By the way, if you bought a dash 9 from this years production, the socket connections are defective... Aristo will replace the main board for free... DON'T put the decoder in it and try it. You have been forewarned. 

Greg


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## RodSten (Jun 14, 2013)

Greg, 
I bought several Dash 9s this year; how can I tell which production run they came from? 
Thanks, 
Rod


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The ones made this year have different wheels, with a thinner flange and the back to back is 1.575" on the wheelsets. But this started in February 2012.... 

Isn't there a date of manufacturer "printing" somewhere on the loco? 

I'll have to take a look. 

Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Kudos to Greg for his helpful information


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

here is a photo of new wheel and there are blackend


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm sorry I cannot tie it down better, but believe me, I have a number of friends that had to get new "motherboards". 

Now when this happened and they called me, we reasoned it was the motherboard, and Aristo sent new ones out on request, but I was not able to get my hands on one to really isolate the problem. 

That said, the debugging I did over the phone points to a short between one track pickup and a motor lead, because of the symptoms, and one destroyed decoder. There's nothing that will destroy a decoder faster than this situation. 

So, one thing you could do is look for any continuity between either of the track pickups and either of the motor leads, i.e. 4 tests with an ohmmeter. 

Take a small piece of wire, like a resistor lead, and put into the socket pins to get access. 

The other alternative, is you could call them and request a board or boards on the possibility of having a bad one.... that might not fly. 

Check the pinouts of the socket on my site, or I can help more here. 

I'm not trying to start a ruckus, but there is a real danger of damaging something, apparently the locos were not tested with anything but the "shorting plug"... in DC mode, you do indeed connect the track pickups directly to the motor... 

So, if a short exists between them, it will not be detected by testing on DC... (funny thing though, Aristo is in the business of making hardware that uses the socket, so not testing it could result in more loss from warranty repairs) 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. remember it's apparently only the run at the beginning of THIS year, even though the blackened wheels started in February 2012. 

p.p.s This information is in general for anyone using the socket. In the case of battery operation only, the results of this wiring error might be different, depending on the installation, but I want to be careful.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Yup. We never knew without checking whether all the pickups were isolated on Aristo stuff with the switch. Most of the ones I have seen (read that statement three times before you start yelling "bashing") only had one leg of the track pickups go through the switch. 
When I do radio/battery on Aristo locos, I make dang sure that there is no connection..as in, find the wires to the chassis circuit board from the trucks, and remove those wires all the way back to the motherboard. 

You don't have to do that. In some cases, one leg won't actually hurt anything, but better safe than sorry. 
TOC


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

One other thing......memory time here....I seem to recall if you use the huge plugs between locos...depending on how they are A) wired and B) the orientation of the locos, you can end up with both sides connected to the rails. 
I always remove those plugs and all associated wiring for them anyway...but seem to recall from someone who did not, and depended on the switch to do what they thought it would do....there was a problem. 
TOC


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, seen that.... lotsa nice melted wires.... 

I remove them myself, got a box full of the same sex connectors. 

Greg


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## RodSten (Jun 14, 2013)

Thanks for all the info about the wiring on the Dash 9s. 

I have just started running trains with battery power and I've had some strange experiences. For example, when I tried to run a 15 car, fully loaded Intermodal train pulled by 2 Dash 9s (the same load I used to pull with track power) with a fully charged 18.5 volt 5600 ma CR-1705 battery in one of the containers, it ran for a very short time, then stopped dead. The engines simply powered off. I removed three cars, switched the battery power off and on, and the train, now with 12 cars, ran great for over an hour. 

Could this be caused by some sort of wiring issue? Or is there some kind of overload circuit in the Dash 9s or in the battery pack that shuts down power if the load is too much? Or do I need to add another Dash 9 to pull the same load on battery power that I used to pull with two Dash 9s under track power? 

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. 

Rod


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*18.5V @ 5600mah LG 18650 Lithium-IonBattery-Pack*s
Product Number: CR-1705

Rod,

The battery pack has some smarts, so the following statement from its manufacturer may explain the effect you are experiencing, but the exact cause will have to be determined.

"Manufactured with ... polyswitch for full protection. . Built-in IC chip prevents battery pack from over charging and/or over discharging and prolongs battery life."

-Ted


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## marc iacobucci (Oct 14, 2012)

yes, switch it to battery power. I don't know what Greg was saying when he meant the decoders have problems. I just got 2 Dash 9s and I am either going to run QSI Titan(10-20amp decoder/sound and Gwire receiver with Airwire T5000 throttle and Li-ion 18.5V battery) or Airwire(Airwire G3 Decoder, Adapter for Aristo PnP, Tsunami Sound, Li-ion 18.5V battery and T5000 throttle). I am actually looking for some advice on which one to choose. Rod, I think you should get one of these 2 systems because they are both made for the Aristo Dash 9 with PnP and both sound sets seem great! Good luck.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Actually Greg said there were problems with the socket connectors and to fix that before harming the decoders. 

I don't believe batteries rated for 18.5v actually deliver that voltage for long and then a high draw situation will shut them off. I know my decoders use some volts and the circuitry drops some more before going to the motor. 

Other things that add to amperage draw are drag and too tight diameter track. 
Are the wheels metal? Do they turn easily? Intermodals are big and modern, are your curves at least 10' d? Any grades? 

John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I don't like comparing products... 
But it is human nature.... 

My SD70 runs on 18volts... 
Intermodals come with metal wheels, standard equipment. 
Running on 30 ft circles. & exceeding 2.5, 2.6 to 2.8% grades - consuming 6-7 amps in doing so, it can pull 70 cars - intermodals - using just a single loco. 
There is clearly a problem with 2 dash-9's only pulling 15 cars... 

Dirk


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

You need to remember that two Dash 9s are actually 8 motors pulling power from one 18 volt power pack. So one Dash 9 running off a single 18 volt pack, might pull the 15 car train better than two Dash 9s trying to pull power off a single 18 volt pack.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Dirk, 

Did you add more weight to your SD 70?. If so, how much does your SD 70 weigh? 

Does your SD 70 include wheels with traction tires? if so how many wheels on the loco have traction tires? 

Thank you, 
-Ted


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hi Ted..... 

Indeed!! Running on batteries. I installed 6 lead acid, 18volt/4.5 amp hour sealed units. Total 9.0 amp hours. 
They added the extra weight, @ 1.5 pds each. 
Loco comes out at 19.375 pounds. 

You may recall my thread about modifying the USA Trains - 6 wheel trucks. I installed traction wheels/tires on each axle. All 12 wheels work evenly this way. 
They have not broken to date. They have not been replaced.. only tires as needed. 

Total pulling effort at the coupler exceeds 8.5 pounds. This equates to 43.87% tractive effort. Also this means it can pull lots of cars. Testing showed me that pulling 50 intermodals resulted in not over 3 pounds of effort to maintain reasonable track speed. 
On a level track this would be well in excess of 100 cars. Math results in about 140 cars... 

I'm content being conservative and running 50 - 60 cars per loco like this one on a normal layout with grades. 

Thanks for asking Ted.. 

Dirk


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks Dirk, 

That explains why your SD 70 can pull an extraordinary number of cars. 

I think this is important to know since many folks visiting this thread may not realize the mods. done to do this well, otherwise, folks will think any new SD 70 out of the box can do the same. 
As to the current draw under such high loads, "...consuming 6-7 amps in doing so, it can pull 70 cars", do you have an amp meter installed in the loco to measure this being it's battery powered? 
I guess the motors have yet to fail with such large current consumption, but do the motors get hot to the touch? 

-Ted


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ted, 

You are correct to point out the mods compared to an out of box loco!! 
I always try to qualify my remarks about my research loco, as it is more of a modified or highly efficient toy!! 

This particular loco, UP 2009, has become a test vehicle for me to learn first hand with. I wanted to know what the loaded results were for a loco. This has worked well for me. 

I have installed very nice digital panel meters under the engine cover, easily removed to see them. Even in bright daylight. Both a amp meter and a volt meter reside under the cover..the amp meter reads to two places past the decimal also.. 
Also of note - I wired the meters inbetween the decoder and the motors for best results.. 

Yes, when worked at high current loads the motors get very hot...to the touch.. in future tests I hope to obtain a heat temp gun to direct read the heat generated. 
To date, inspite of my working the loco hard, no parts have failed! 

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ted, 

You are correct to point out the mods compared to an out of box loco!! 
I always try to qualify my remarks about my research loco, as it is more of a modified or highly efficient toy!! 

This particular loco, UP 2009, has become a test vehicle for me to learn first hand with. I wanted to know what the loaded results were for a loco. This has worked well for me. 

I have installed very nice digital panel meters under the engine cover, easily removed to see them. Even in bright daylight. Both a amp meter and a volt meter reside under the cover..the amp meter reads to two places past the decimal also.. 
Also of note - I wired the meters inbetween the decoder and the motors for best results.. 

Yes, when worked at high current loads the motors get very hot...to the touch.. in future tests I hope to obtain a heat temp gun to direct read the heat generated. 
To date, inspite of my working the loco hard, no parts have failed! 

Dirk


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Dirk, Thanks for all the insights. 

Does your SD 70 "research loco" still have brass axle bushings or did you retrofit ball bearings in it given it's extra heavy, weighing 19+ lbs? 
Did you stiffen the pivoting axle, too, to get better traction?

-Ted


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ted .. 
Look under Rolling stock....then for something like improving the USA Trains floopy drive!! 

I shared my mods there.. 
Cant link from phone - sorry! 

All stock. .... motors..bushings .. gear train.. 
Two mods to motor block....!!! 

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ted..I looked again... 

On the 3rd page...half way down...under Rolling Stock.. 

Tells it all 

Dirk


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