# EMMA Burner - Issues/Questions



## Malcolm (Aug 3, 2011)

My new EMMA runs fine, however, the burner is a lot louder than on my other two recent Accucraft engines. The burner has a pulsating sound and my first thought is that the jet has some garbage in it that keeps getting blown around. Is this a reasonable diagnosis? Are there other possibilities I should consider? I have posted two videos of EMMA on YouTube (MFS453) and you can hear the burner.

I have not taken out the jet to blow it out to see if that cures the problem. I need to find a new wrench that fits the fittings. For some reason, of the tens of small wrenches I have, none fit. Or I lost the one that would have fit (most likely). I ask in case there is something else to consider.

I have also played with the air intake on the burner. No position quiets the burner.

Any help, comments, or suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Regards to all,
Malcolm S.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Malcom, 
It wouldn't hurt anything to clean the jet. On your video (I only found one) when the loco is on the rollers you have plenty of steam according to the gauge so you could simply turn down the gas and quiet the burner that way and get a longer run as well. Looks like she runs well on your railway if a little fast for a small industrial 10 tonner. I like the sound of the wheels of the loco and cars on the rails. Little burner noise there. 
Have fun, 
Tom


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

Sears used to sell a keychain-size working crescent wrench - about 2 inches long. I haven't been in Sears in a while, so I don't know if they're still available. It's one of those things they put by the register, hoping you'll buy it on impulse. It is exactly right for many of the chores I have around my live steamers. 

I got two and gave one to a gearhead friend. TSA took it - I guess they were afraid he'd dismantle the airplane in mid-air. I guess I need to go to Sears and see if I can find a replacement.


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

In case Sears doesn't carry them anymore, you can get them from Shanghai, via eBay. Of course.... 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Creative-To...145?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337b99c911 

Of course, with a Craftsman tool, you can take it back and exchange it if it doesn't work, or breaks. I doubt you can do that with the Shanghai wrench. Still, how much strain are you going to put on it?


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## Malcolm (Aug 3, 2011)

Tom,

Thanks for taking time to look at the video of EMMA running and responding to my request for help/suggestions/comments. When I turn the gas down, the engine does not make enough steam to run; why I think I need to clean the jet when I find a wrench to fit.

Just never had this issue with my EBT 12 or wife's 4-4-0, both of which make plenty of steam at very low gas settings.

It does run fast when I let it (I have been known to run them a little fast). I noticed in another post on the EMMA that a throttle valve is available with helps to run slower. Will look into obtaining one.

Vance,

Thanks for the information on the wrench. I will look into it.

Thanks again to both of you,
Malcolm S.


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Malcolm,

If you are interested in substituting a new throttle valve that will provide better low speed control, I suggest that you touch base with Jason Kovac at _The Train Department._ I bought one from him at ECLSTS this spring and my Emma became much easier to control at low speeds. He also has an improved gas control valve which I've installed and like.

Llyn


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

*I have found that a set of Sears Craftsman Metric Ignition Wrenches invaluable when working on steamers.*


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I have found that a set of Sears Craftsman Metric Ignition Wrenches invaluable when working on steamers. 
My choice too - they are small and fit all sorts of boiler fittings!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

It wouldn't hurt anything to clean the jet 
Blow out the feed pipe too - new Acucraft locos are notorious for having bits in the gas feed. 

Also check the air collar (if Emma has one) around the jet holder that allows air to mix with the gas in the flue. You can experiemtn with moving it (if it isn't jammed by the steam pipe running through the flue.)


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

*With the jet removed, try evacuating one tank of butane to the atmosphere. It will clean out the tank as well as the lines.*


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## Malcolm (Aug 3, 2011)

Everybody,

Thank you for your suggestions and comments. I plan to pick up a set of the metric wrenches at Sears.

I found a small adjustable wrench that worked. I cleaned the jet. It had small white particiles in it that appeared to be from the seal of the jet to the holder. I blew out the gas line and then let a tank of gas blow through it (outside of course). Reinstalled everything, the burner would not light. Took the jet out again and blew it out, reinstalled, and the burner lit. The pulsating of the burner is gone, but it is still a little loud. Adjusting the air ring (less air) on the burner cuts out some of the noise. I will run it again tomorrow night, just to be sure it lights up and continues as is.

The burner noise increases every so often without any adjusting of the gas valve. Taping the valve usually quiets the burner down. Not sure what causes this.

To keep steam up, the burner level is such that it does make more noise than I am use to based on the other two Accucraft engines in the family (Not counting the 2004 Ruby built from a kit). I suspect the fire needed to keep up pressure will decrease as the engine breaks in.

Could there be a problem with the burner itself?

Again, thanks for your responses. They are all greatly appreciated.

Regards to all,
Malcolm S.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's a FWIW...



The Craftsman metric open-end wrench set Tom mentioned above has sizes 5mm, 5.5mm, 6mm, 7mm, 8mm, 9mm, 10mm, and 11mm sizes. Accucraft jets are 6.0.mm. So you'll be set working on the jets.

If you want an open end wrench set that has sizes you can use on all of Accucraft regular small bolts they're a little harder to find needing sizes down to 2.5mm. You can find those sets from:


*Moody Tools: *










16 pcs set both metric and English; Set Contains the following sizes - 5/64", 3/32", 7/64", 1/8", 5/32", 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 2.5mm, 3.0mm, 3.2mm, 4.0mm. 5.0mm. 5.5mm. 6.0mm, 7.0mm

Buy from Amazon, a number of tool sources (Google it) or direct from Moody Tools. Complete 16 pcs set about $45. Metric or English sets can be bought individually.










Moody also offers 9 pcs metric or English sets that are single handle and individual blades - lowest price option.


*Fohrmann: Best Source *(only one I could find)
German site, English language option. Prices in Euros. You can order from online. (Wrenches are called spanners in parts of the world so if you search try both.)





















Set of mini open-ended spanners with following sizes: 2.5 x 3.2 mm; 3 x 3.5 mm; 3.5 x 4.5 mm, 4 x 5 mm; 5 x 5.5 mm. Made in Germany. Little hard to see but bottom photo wrenches are higher quality. 2mm and 3,0mm, 3.2mm and 3.5mm sizes required for common Accucraft bolts. Not all 3.0 Accucraft take a 3.0mm wrench so to fine tune the wrench to the bolt head you try out sizes (sometimes it's the paint but in general not all 3.0mm bolts are exactly 3.0mm.)

A 2.0mm wrench is available from a separate source but can't remember where I got it. It was not from Fohrmann. But 2.00mm is one of those "...gotta have absolutely everything of a thing" You don't really need it for anything Accucraft - as far as I can find. But I got one just in case.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

MacMaster-Carr also offers miniature open end wrenches but no smaller than 5/32" and 4mm


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

If you are having troubles and tapping the valves changes it, you will either need to install a spring behind the gas handle that keeps pressure on the valve. You are just getting movement in the threads on the valve. The other option is to replace the valve with an upgraded version that offers finer control and a better taper needle.


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## Malcolm (Aug 3, 2011)

Chris,

Thanks for the information on the wrench sets.

Jason,

Thanks for the explanation of the gas value issue. However, see below. 


I ran the engine this evening, the pulsating burner noise is back, which was gone last night (except for the increase in noise that Jason supplied an explanation for). It lights up well, but goes into the semi-quiet/loud pulsating mode I plan to blow out the gas lines again (will have to wait to this weekend). 

It is frustrating, the engine runs beautifully, but the burner is to me, a major distraction. I noticed that the burner is not centered in the flue, it is off to one side (to clear the super-heater pipe?). Don't know if this has any bearing on the noise. Any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Regards to all,
Malcolm S.


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## Malcolm (Aug 3, 2011)

I made and sent a video of Emma to Cliff at Accucraft so he could hear the burner. His reply was that he did not think the sound was all that unusual for the Accucraft Burner. He did give me some suggestions to lower the noise, including checking the burner to see if there are any burrs or flash in the burner slots. i will do this and also blow out the gas line again.

I suppose I have been spoiled by the relatively quiet burners on the EBT 12 and Baldwin 4-4-0. On reflection, the Emma is a little quieter than the Ruby I built from a kit. 

I plan to add new valves for the gas and throttle as recommended above and a Summerlands Chuffer. Maybe the finer gas control will help with the noise and if not, drown out the noise with the chuffer.

Best regards to all and thanks for your responses to my request for help,
Malcolm S.


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## Chris B (Oct 18, 2009)

Hi Malcolm 
i guess we have all been thinking that you have a fault, but if it is just a noisy Accucraft burner, you could try the old solution of wrapping the poker in fine mesh. I normally use a fine nichrome (sourced by a friend from the US), but another friend just buys a fine sieve from a supermarket and cuts the stainless mesh from that. Wrap it tight and use some fo the wire from the mesh to secure it. 

As I have said before on here, my noisy burner on an Edrig was due to an oversized jet. I fitted a precision No5 Primus jet (in a modified holder as it is 1 BA) and an air control ring and the burner is superb. 

Good luck 
Cheers 
Chris


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## Malcolm (Aug 3, 2011)

Chris,

Thanks for the fine mesh wrapped on the burner potential solution. I will try it.

Regards,
Malcolm S.


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## Malcolm (Aug 3, 2011)

As a follow up, I wrapped the burner in stainless steel mesh this morning as suggested. What an amazing difference, most of the burner noise is gone and the engine is definintely making steam better (as it should if the burner is working better/correctly). I also added a new throttle valve and gas valve and I am extremely happy with both of them. I also added a Summerlands Chuffer. I had heard them on videos, but never in person. Was I surprised at how loud and how good it sounded? Yes. I may have to add the chuffers to some of my other locomotives.

I plan to add the stainless steel mesh to the burner of the Ruby I built from a kit in 2004. It has always run reasonably well, but the burner was also always kind of loud. It it works as well, or even a bit less on the Ruby, I will be happy/satisfied.

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions posted. They were and are appreciated.

Best Regards to All,
Malcolm S.


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## Chris B (Oct 18, 2009)

So that is a real result then Malcolm! Perhaps a little video is called for .....;-) 
Cheers 
Chris


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## Malcolm (Aug 3, 2011)

A video of EMMA after the mods is at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r69mGOw_UeU 

If the link does not work - go to MFS453 on YouTube. You may hear the burner, but believe me, it is not near as loud as it was before the mesh was added to the burner.

Best Regards to All,
Malcolm S.


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