# Question about scales



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I am thinking about doing more 1/32 scale figures. Before I started I thought I should buy a few and assemble a few. Now,,, not having a lot of money I bought a cheap 54mm set by Dragon with 4 soldiers in it. I assembled one that is of a soldier posed in a standing position but semi slouched over eating some hard tack. I measured the figure and found that it was 58mm not 54. Now,,, there were some individuals that actually were about 6'1" back then, but very few that were 6'1" slouched over. My question is, is it typical for 1:32 scale figures to be larger than 1:32? Is it also typical for 54mm figures to be 4mm larger than they are suppose to be,,, or are all these anomalies only typical of the cheaper Dragon figures?


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

What I've found is that a lot of things are not the scale as stated. 

Trains, toy cars etc. 

Personally, I think you would sell more 1:29th scale figures than 1:32nd. 

But, you should be able to sell the same figure as either 1:29th or 1:32nd. Just state the height for each. 

No matter which scale we model, not everyone is the same height or weight. 

In real life, you have skinny 6' 1" men and over weight 6' 1" men.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

thanks Randy,,, but what happens with seated figures? Is there a standard for seat heights, widths and depths?


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Seated or standing, I still think it comes down to the size person you're modeling. Not the scale. at least not when you're talinking 1:29th and 1:32nd. 

An 18 inch seat height of a chair in 29th scale would be .62 of an inch while 32nd scale the same 18 inch seat height would be .56 of and inch or 1/16th difference if my math is correct. 

So while I think most men when sitting on a kitchen chair, their legs are not down flat against the seat bottom at the fron edge of the seat, I don't see this 1/16th of an inch being a big deal.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

If anything, I think about a half a scale foot of variation - and a different mean for male and female - would add to realism. 

Primarily I look for figures to look right alongside, or inside, the train. And the right mix of detail, prototypical accuracy, and cost. 

I just measured four figures from the LGB starter set: 

- 73.5 mm or 5' 6" - standing female. 
- 77.5 mm or 5' 9" - standing male. 
- 73.0 mm or 5' 5" - male in a walking gait wearing a cap. 
- 76.0 mm or 5' 7" - standing male wearing a cap. 

So it looks like the railway is recruiting ex submariners! 

*** 

Seated presents a problem in that a person sinks into the seat cushion (some more than others), and with model seats not having this give, the figures may look too high if not accounted for. Same goes for compression of the seat backrest, though in this case they may simply look too erect. 

With 1:32 tending to be a scale with more adherence to prototype, I'd have been drawn to this scale if I wanted the most realistic large scale / outdoor models. I had been thinking about the possibility of using both the kits and figures of 1:35 military models with 1:32 trains, how well that would work.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd think there's a lot more market in 1:29... I need an engineer and fireman for a bunch of locos, and I have to buy sitting people for my passenger cars. Boy if you made them in the right scale and so they would fit in the seats of Aristo HW, streamliner, USAT streamliner, I would think you would have a lot bigger market. 

You'd need to make them somewhat competitive in price, but not really for the engineer and fireman... I think Aristo uses the same chairs in all of their cabs. 

Greg


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

If you design your models at 1:30.5 and not make any modeled on very short or very tall people they will only ever be about 5% out of scale which of course, people are all different anyway. 
A real 6' person @ 1:30.5 would be about either 5'8" or 6'3" depending whether they are in a 1:29 or 1:32 scale world.
The overall effect of modeling 1:30.5 'prototypes' would result in the little people tending to all be about 3" shorter in 1:29 and 3" taller in 1:32. Therefore, perhaps most should be an 'average' height so this was not so apparent, also making just a few to push the limits and lose that 'average' height look. 
In 'Large scale' we already tend to 'bend the scale' up to 10% because of the availability of manufactured models. A model of a person that has no particular 'prototype' that is out by 5% is fine in my world. 

Andrew


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

That, and British 10mm scale is 1:30.5, so you'd hit them pretty square on the head with a new stream of suitable figures as well. 

I think a line of correctly scaled people for that end of the scale spectrum is needed--especially locomotive crews. My concern would be that there's not a whole lot of "proper" 1:29 or 1:32 buildings on the market; most are 1:24ish (some larger). Putting a "proper" 1:32 or 1:29 (or 1:30.5) figure on a station platform of a 1:24 building is not going to look good at all, and I think that will still steer most modelers towards the 1:24-ish figures we currently have, at least for those scenes where "populations" of people are the order of the day. 

Later, 

K


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback, but here is my real delima. I don't make my figures all one size. If I'm doing a figure based on a likeness of a person famous or unknown I make them the height they are in real life. So If a person is 6' 1" I make him that size seated or standing. My issue is establishing a standard for seat heights and determining if the scaling proportions 1:32 or 1:35 or 1:29 for that matter are accurate. Since I know do my figures in 3D I can be deadly accurate in fact I can be with in .0003" + or - the correct height. 
So, all my figures will vary in size because the individual subjects for the work vary in size. But what should stay a constant is the world they will occuppy. So if lets say the seats on the coach cars are all 18" then in 1/32 scale the seats will all measure to .5625" Now, that being said my own models are 1:20.32 scale and 1:13.7142 scale and the standard seat heights are about 17.5 inches. This is because, I do take compression into consideration when I'm modeling and like to fit my seats cushions to the passengers and not the other way around. 
I also like it when I make a figure and put it in one of my pieces of equipement it fits. 
I don't own any 1:32 trains, but I do have a model car that is 1:32. I don't own anything that is 1:35 or 1:29 so for me its like moving in to uncharted waters. I was expecting that the 54mm kit I bought would be representative of the correct scaling for figures, but it is way off. So my question really is,,,, what is the true seat height at 1:32 and will my 17.5 scaleing be close enough, or do I need to add a half inch?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I guess you need to ask someone that has some 1:32 coaches with interior seating. 
I don't know who makes that except for MTH Railking and some specialist British makers. There is not much around like that. 
Here is an old MTH Gauge 1 catalog. I'm not sure if they still make the stuff though.

http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/defa...1g2004.pdf

Some manufacturers measure figure height from the feet to the eyes rather than the top of the head, also military figures are usually done in 1:35. 
I think this explains the issue you had with the Dragon brand figures you bought. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_scale#Scales 
54 mm 9 mm ≈1:33.9 Collectible figures. These miniatures are a good match for 1:35 models, but oversize 54 mm figures would fit better with 1:32 models. Plastic dollar-store army men are often sold at this scale. 
Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd figure you would sell people for locos first... but consider how many more you would sell outfitting coaches. 

Let's say I have 40 locomotives... so 40 engineers, maybe a fireman in each... still only 80. 

Now I need WAY more to outfit my passenger cars. Just thinking of an additional market. 

Also, your people for passenger cars don't have to have the same level of detail or variation. 

Just a thought based on what I would buy personally. 

Again, purchase or get detailed measurements on the target passenger cars, easy in 1:29. 

Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

It seems hard to find figures that will fit seated in passenger cars. Many need to be cut off. The ones from USA Trains are quite small but are used in their coaches and are inexpensive.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, seems the seats are not the proper scale size (or their butts are too big ha ha!) 

Greg


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

What about those ones from China that are advertised on ebay as 1:32? You can buy just seated sets of people but there seems to only be 7 different types painted or unpainted. Maybe they look too small for 1:29 but their butts would be smaller.










Andrew


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

It is not just passenger cars that pose problems. Ever try to get people into 1:24 trucks and automobiles? It is usually only accomplished through "surgery." That is even true when trying to get certain 1:29 seated figures into 1:24 vehicles. Seated figures that work fine on a park bench can still be a challenge to fit into coach or vehicle seats.










It is usually only one figure per seat. Sometimes you can get an adult and a child on a single "bench" type coach seat.










If the guys in the rail beetle were real people, I would be on trial for war crimes due to what I had to do to get them into the car.

Anyway, I think a lot of us could go for some seated figures that would fit into coach and vehicle seats..

Just my $0.02,
David Meashey


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

The problem with seating them in cars is that they are rigid. Even a figure made specifically for a car seat needs to be put together in the car and not before putting it in the car, unless of course they are in a passenger seat. Behind the wheel you can forget about it. I do 1:20.32 scale and SE,,, I don't plan on going any smaller so buying coaches is out of the question. 

As far as detail goes,,, I make my figures as detailed as I can,,, that's how I work. I don't want to sacrifice detail, and won't. What I am considering will be kits. So that I can assemble the figure and leave out parts that don't fit. I have made scale seats for my own scratch built coaches and they are the prototypical sizes and they still have problems with passengers sitting next to each other. That is another issue with the figures being rigid while the human body is not. I'm a fairly large person, not real large by my families standards but for some folks. I stand 6' 1" tall and weigh about 230 lbs. I barely fit in the window seats in an airplane. Most of me hangs out into the halls because I have unusually large shoulders. I've ridden in old coaches and have the same problem. My wife is small and when she sits next to me, no problem. But get another person my size in the seat next to me and we are wedged up next to each other and have to tolerate it, or find another seat. 
Things happen to the human body when they are forced into tight spaces. Your shoulders move in, the flesh gives way and reached an equilibrium with the flesh next to it. and our legs fold on top of each other. We can bend while figures that might be scaled correctly for sitting alone in the seat will not give way to another passenger. 
I'm thinking that if I had the correct dimensions for the seat of a model, I can make the exact matching pair of passengers so that they could fit that seat and still maintain their original proportions. I remember as a kid we got to take a train ride in school for a short distance. I lived in Illinois and I forget the name of the line, but I do recall that I was stuck sharing a seat with a rotund passenger, and even though that was a standard gauge track and the coach was plenty big,,, my eight year old self was crowded out by this much larger adult.
So,,, I guess to sum it up.
Can someone give me some seat sizes. Ht, width, Ht of back, ht of armrests, depth of seat, and the available spaces between the seat. I think it would be cool to have some people that were made specifically to sit next to each other,,, I know I'm doing it for SE and FNG.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What is SE? I get FNG is F scale narrow gauge... 

Greg 

p.s. if buying 3 coaches at $200 each is not worth the investment, then I guess you can ignore my comments about a possible larger market for you in 1:29 or for coaches.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03 Apr 2013 02:58 PM 
What is SE? I get FNG is F scale narrow gauge... 

Greg 

p.s. if buying 3 coaches at $200 each is not worth the investment, then I guess you can ignore my comments about a possible larger market for you in 1:29 or for coaches. SE is 7/8ths scale 1:13.7142 or seven eighths.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Unless your 1/32nd scale model car is plastic, mostlikely it's not true to the scale stated either. 

Next time you are checking out the toy cars, take notice that the Chrysler Imperial comes in the same size box as the Ford Falcon. 

Yea the really high end models are more true to scale, but the cheaper ones are a far cry from true. 

Pretty much like the trains we buy.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I can measure Marklin's HO coach seat heights for you. Not sure if they would use the same scaling to produce their 1:32 models, though it would make sense and Marklin generally seems to care about realism (to my perspective, anyway.) If tooling is made from CAD, it seems logical that an HO or I scale can save much work by simply scaling the entire drawing. 

I have prototypes from pre WWI through the 1960's, although they are all European.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the offer, but that won't tell me much,,, besides I still have HO and O scale equipment I can measure


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

So... who makes these 1:32 scale coaches that need measuring, that need people? Do they exist? Like I said, there is MTH that I don't think are made any more. Your inclination for scale fidelity has narrowed to a market that is not there. 
As it's been pointed out though, good 1:29 scale people are scarce. There is a need for them. There are a number of 1:29 coaches with seats ready for little butts! Aristocraft and USA Trains come to mind. 
In any case, I think your product range are more 'show pieces' that come at a specialized price. I doubt that many people will invest hundreds of dollars to populate each coach they have. 
If the Chinese were smarter they would make a set of a dozen or so different sitting people in 1:29 and do the math first so they fit the existing 1:29 train products. perhaps a side grind would be necessary so they can sit in snug places next to each other. There is a market for that at a price that people will spend. 

Andrew


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I don't think I could sell many 1:29th scale figures at the prices people would want to buy them at. I don't have my figures manufactured in China, partly because I can't afford the volume of figures required to get a good price and partyly because I am philosophically against having any more stuff manufactured in China. So that puts me in a state of either not marking up my figures and taking a loss on production or charging 30% over manufacturing costs so as to make enough money to keep making figures. 
For me 1:32 scale is closess to 54mm scale which is popular amoung miniture figure painters. They are used to paying 30 or more dollars for a good resin kit in that scale. I've seen kits for as much as 43 dollars in that scale. The funny thing is that the kit I assembled which is suppose to be 54mm is actuall closer to 1:29 scale for the figure, but the muskiet the figure is carring scales out to exactly 1:32 scale at 1.75 inches. 
The figure would stand slouched over at 5'6" in 1:29 scale and would propably be about 5'9" standing errect. That is pretty close to the average height of a person during the civil war. 
I'm not sure this is an anomly because the kit was so cheap, or if it is a standard. I'm going to buy one of the more expensive kits and find out.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I bought a bunch of Aristo seated passengers and put abaout 10 in each of my Bachmann 1:22 coaches.

They look just right to me even though the scale may not be correct.

John


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

It seems that it is common for 54mm figures to sometimes be too big and more accurate for larger scales.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_scale#Scales 

Ask Jerry about the measurements of his MTH 1:32 scale coach seats. This might be helpful. 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx


Andrew


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I'm scaling in a combination of 1:24 and 1:29 in order to get the types of figures I need. Since my RR is set in late 1880's Southwest I'm looking for that type of figures 
Do you make anything like that?


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Fyrekop, 
Since mens clothing styles haven't changed significantly in almost 100 years, I guess I can say yes. A few of my figures are from subjects right from 1880, but if you are talking about scales, I have only 1:20 and only a couple of 1:24ths scales. My site is http://scalehumans.com.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Richard,
I don't know if any of this will help you or not.
I used Chinese, USA Trains, and Preiser figures in some sets of 1/32 Canadian Pacific cars recently completed.
Also a complete casting of a sleeping lady in her bed for the sleeping cars. 
They fit okay on my 1/32 scale seats, but need a bit of filing sometimes to get them 'fit' to look as though they are comfortable.
I have the actual plans of the seats that give measurements if you want them. 
With passenger cars, to look fairly well populated, it really comes down to cost, doesn't it.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

I model in 1:32 as much as possible. I've got the MTH Daylight coaches without people! And I try to scratchbuild some models and buildings in 1:32. Thanks to National Motor Mint, I've got about fifty die cast cars and trucks in 1:32 as well. 

I'd appreciate some 1:32 figures, especially seated ones to go in passenger cars and in benches and chairs on the porches of my 1:32 buildings.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Dick, 
They sell 1/32 figures on ebay. You can get sitting figures and standing. Paint is not too great. Mine all came with black hair, EVERY one. Clothing is painted okay, but not much variation. Flesh tones are not good either. But they are inexpensive figures. I used some cheap acrylic flesh tone from Walmart, and a few other colors. I put them in my MTH coaches, there are some pictures on one of the forums of mine, not sure which one off hand.


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