# QSI/GWire Decoder/NEC GWire CAB/AR Mikado: Throttle/Decoder Not Responding



## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

I have installed a QSI Sound Board/GWire Decoder in a Aristo Mikado Loco, running 100% battery. The battery setup is in a box car trailing the tender, using a RCS battery installation kit (BIK).
*Problem: GWire Decoder does not respond to the NEC throttle*








Based on a thread in June, regarding R/C Systems, decoders, throttles, etc., I decided to convert my AR TE system to GWire Decoder and NEC GWire CAB (throttle) with QSI sound in a Aristo Mikado. All electronics are new, bought from EMW. Jonathan at EMW programmed ‘steam’ sound into the QSI prior to shipping.
During the wiring process, I read and used Greg Elmassian’s instructions (On QSI' website) for a QSI Decoder Install in a AR Mikado; found this extremely helpful especially since I am running 100% battery. 
The following installs were made:
QSI Aristo sound board on the loco board two connectors; easy plug
Extended the speaker wire from the loco to the speaker in the tender (definitely not as a clean a connection as in Greg’s article.)
GWire decoder with flat wire to QSI, connected correctly per the 1-page instructions. Decoder address switch set at 0 (default). 
Battery Install Kit (BIK) in box car with AR li-ion batteries (21.5-23.5 V @2 amps; used with TE system). Kit includes On-Off switch, charge jack, fuse, rf chokes, and LED ON indicator.
On my work table (not on metal tracks), I turned the system on with the loco/tender/battery car connected. Sound came on; wheels turned without the throttle on.
I Turned throttle on; followed instructions on pg 2 of ‘GWire Reference Manual’ to setup the first loco. Instructions said that the channel was set at ‘0’. Throttle had no control of the train! Turned system off. I found that I had to wait about 10 minutes before the system would turn on again. Still, the throttle had no control

Put the train on track. System did not turn on. After studying Greg’s instructions, I de-soldered the track pickup wires from the wheels in the tender. Power was sent from the battery car to the loco. Before that, the tender was shorting the circuit as it worked on my work table, and did not work on the tracks. I also need to disconnect the loco from track power; another issue I need to face.

*However, the decoder/loco did not respond to the NEC throttle*.








I tried this several times over 2-3 days and got the same thing. It was consistent in not working. I literally would have a ‘runaway’ train once I turned the battery power on. I initially set the loco # at 481, long address (Mikado #). After failure, I set another loco at #2, short address... same results. I even pushed #6 (F6) twice if it somehow became disconnected; nothing happened.

I am new to DCC with no prior experience. I was hoping I’d be operating a loco with GWire control in less than 10 minutes (per the instructions), and I failed. I intend to get into programming DCC, but I need to get past this first step.
I would appreciate the forum’s help in solving my problem. Thanks, you have been extremely helpful in the past.


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

Formatting was messed up on my original thread. I 'editted'it below:


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

I apologize to all for the poor formatting of this thread. I will re-submit this thread on Saturday, July 24th.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm a little confused--do you have DC on the track? When you say the tender is shorting it sounds like you must have DC on the track. 

Are you getting sound?


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

I'm a little confused? do you have DC on the track? *No, the track has no power. *

Are you getting sound? *When I turn the system on, I get sound, loco wheels turn, loco lights are on. But, I do not have control with the NEC throttle. *

I re-posted this thread to correct the formatting errors. Please reply to the new thread. I appreciate your response.


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

How do you get the loco wheels to turn if there is no response from the throttle? 

Are you using the default address, 3? If not, I would try to reset the address on the whole thing, receiver & transmitter. Aslo, make sure that both receiver & transmitter are on the same channel. 

Why not contact your dealer? He should be able to help you.


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

How do you get the loco wheels to turn if there is no response from the throttle? *I don't know! I have everything wired... loco/tender/battery car. Turned the switch on in the battery car to give power to the loco and sound, wheels turn, and lights come on. At this point, the throttle isn't on.*


Are you using the default address, 3? If not, I would try to reset the address on the whole thing, receiver & transmitter. Also, make sure that both receiver & transmitter are on the same channel. This may be the problem. I am confused on the terminology... frequency (channel) and address. I know the receiver default frequency (channel) is '0' and it is still set at zero. The default channel for the throttle (transmitter) also is '0'. I believe they are still on '0'. How can I check/confirm that the transmitter is still on the '0' frequency '0'[/b]








*Is the address the loco # *







If it is, when I went thru the 'Quick Start' instructions on page 2, I inputted the #481 for the loco # (address?). When this didn't work, I added loco #2 (short address). It still didn't work.


Is the reset of the address conducted with[/b] a magnet directed at the reed switch connected to the decoder[/b]*?* Does it also reset the sound programmed on the QSI PCB[/b]


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

Good questions. Unfortunately, I can't answer them. I use AirWire transmitters & receivers. 

If you mean that the locomotive wheels continually turn when the receiver is turned on, there is wither something wrong with your wiring or the receiver. The wheels should not be turning unless the transmitter sends a DCC command to make them turn.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It sounds to me as if it is wired incorrectly--it sounds like the power is not isolated from the motor. You are going through aristo's plug and play socket, correct? Have you tried messing with the battery/track switch? It's often wired wrong. Do you have a multimeter? The second pins from either side are for the motor--for example, in the string of numbers below, 1 and 0 would be for power, 2 and 9 for the motor 

1234567890 

Try taking the decoder out, and sticking wires in 2 and 9. See if you are getting current on those. If you are, then the problem is in the Plug and play socket, I would guess. 

The Gwire card has an address, set to zero. The NCE cab I assume is set to the same address. But you can check it by scrolling through the menus--press the prog/esc button repeatedly. I don't have the NCE Gwire cab,so I can't answer the questions specifically. There should be a setting for configuring the cab/throttle. But I think it's in your wiring or in the PNP socket


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

My receiver is GWire (made by Airwire); therefore, the reset with the magnet/reed switch should be the same as what you have. Have you done a reset before? The GWire receiver (decoder) connects to the QSI sound board (PCB) with a flat cable.


Yes, as soon I turn power on (with transmitter off), the loco's wheels move (quite fast) and sound/lights come on. I also would think that this should not happen with the transmitter (throttle) off. 


Per Greg Elmassian's instructions for a 'QSI decoder install in a AR Mikado', and I quote,"In the design, it appears that when correctly wired, all that happens is in track position, the loco and tender pick up power, and in the battery position, the battery connected to the plug in the tender is just ADDED to the track pickups." As stated above, I have disconnected the track pickup wires from the wheels on the tender. *I don't know if the loco's wheels getting power has any effect on the wheels turning/sound/lights coming on without the transmitter (throttle) being on*









Greg Elmassian, if you have the time, [/b]*I could use your expertise on this issue. From my read of the threads on this forum, particularly, R/C & Battery/Sound, your knowledge of this subject is unsurpassed. I would appreciate your input. Thanks.*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

First, since you are running battery, just put the loco on rollers on a separate loose section of track, to ensure there is no connection between the 2 rails. If you don't have rollers, put a brick on the rails, a piece of sponge rubber and oil the rails. 

This will eliminate any concerns about extraneous power to the wheels. That can be addressed later. I don't think that is your issue. 

OK, so the motor turns, so the battery power is getting to the QSI. 

Try this first to isolate where the problem is. 

Basically it sounds like your receiver is not on/powered. The Gwire receiver cable is EASY to plug in backwards( reversed in the socket), there was a orange/red sheet showing how the cable is oriented in the sockets. If you look at the socket on the QSI, the side that the contacts "Appear" to be on is NOT that side! 

If there is no receiver, then the loco thinks it's running from track power (your battery) and should go to a speed appropriate as if it was on track power (really fast!) 

So all of this points to the receiver not connected properly. 

Regards, Greg


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks, I believe my problems are solved. I won't know for sure until I put everything back together on my work table and put it on the track to run. After spending the most of the last 7 hours on this issue, I'm going to leave it for awhile and put it back together tonight, and completely test it tomorrow, Sunday. 

Solution (Need to confirm): In following the 'Quick Start' directions on pg 2 of the GWire System Reference Manual, I inputted my own Loco #, not realizing that the CAB already was programmed with #3. A couple of people in their replies and Jonathan at EMW referenced the #3 address. I assumed they meant channel which is set at 0 (zero) on both the receiver (decoder) and throttle. The instructions on pg 2 state, "in the above example loco #3 is already specified". It does not state to use #3 as the default. In fact, it leads one to believe you can use any number as long as it meets the criteria for short/long addresses. 

I inputted #3 as the Loco #, and I immediately had control of the loco. This was a short test with the loco/tender cabs off and the battery hooked directly to the rear of the tender. I will do a complete test tomorrow and hopefully confirm everything is working. It seems a very simple solution. needless to say, I learned a lot today. 

I do want to respond to Lownote and Greg's replies: 

Lownote 
Wiring of Aristo plug/play board: 12 pin slot: pins 1/12 & 2/11 (track power), I got readings of 22+ volts; pins 3/10, reading of o volts 
10 pin slot:1/10 & 2/9... no firm reading, moving #s. 
Conclusion: No current/voltage is going through the motor when the throttle is off. 

Greg 
I've been doing my testing on a wood work table and letting the loco run into a towel with the wheels turning on the wood top. Probably not the best, but I didn't let it run long; seconds only. What are the rollers that you referred to, and where can I get them? I do want to disconnect the track pickup wires to isolate the loco from any possible track, or if I run my loco on another track powered railroad (ie, Club module at shows). As I said earlier, i disconnected the tender track pickup wires. Greg, could you advise me how to get to the two black wires (described in the QSI/Mikado instructions), or can I just snip them at the switch. Any more detailed info will be appreciated. 

I checked the flat wire connection between the receiver and the QSI PCB, and found it OK. The instructions that I received state: 
On the receiver, black side of the flat cable is towards the PCB (down) and side w/ contacts is away from the PCB (up). On the QSI board, black side is towards the middle of the board, and the contact side is toward the edge. 

Greg, as you said in your QSI/Mikado instructions, I also found that 1), battery switch is backwards, says on and it's really off; 2), smoke switch is backwards also. 

As I mentioned above, I must disconnect power pickup to the loco wheels. Any help in this regard will be appreciated. 

Thanks again to everyone. I certainly appreciated the replies and the empathy shown by all. Hopefully, I can confirm everything is OK tomorrow


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Good luck! Glad it's working out and I hope it keeps up. 

The decoder comes set to address #three. The short address value is stored in CV1. When you make sure everything works, you can change the address easily by putting a different value in CV1. The NCE throttle makes that easy to do--you just psuh "prg/esc, then press 2, and it will prmpt you to enter the CV number. Enter 1, then it will ask for the value to enter. Then enter the address you want to use. I only ever use the short CVs because it's convenient


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Weird, did not think it should take off at full speed no matter what address is used. We will see. But if you can control it from the throttle, then wiring is right.


rollers: http://www.hobbylinc.com...trong>

they come in versions that only conduct power too, cheaper... put the ball bearing ones under drive wheels, the static ones under steam loco pilots, tenders.

You can cut the wires coming from the driver pickups, follow the wires up from the motor block, there are 4 wires, 2 for the motor and 2 for track pickups, outer wires are the track pickups if I remember right.

Wiring the switch up to be useful can be tricky, what you really want is a double pole switch to disconnect both sides of the track pickups, but I believe the switch is a single pole.



I'd follow the outer 2 wires up from the white connector you see on the left below:












*Regards, Greg 
*


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd watch ebay for rollers as Greg has shown you. You may find a less expensive setup!! Also Jak makes a set of rollers that actually clean your wheels as they turn. I posted a link a couple of days ago see if I can find it again for you and post. Al Kramer of evil bay usually sells some good ones email him through his site which is Anna Kramer on the evil bay. I have both and they both work fine. Regal 

Here tiz!! check em out 

http://www.jaktool.com/Trackless_Rail_System.htm


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Truman, here are the links you asked for in case they don't work on the message center through here!! Regal

YouTube - 7485jerry's Channel

Crazy Train Guy's Garden Railroad Channel - live streaming video powered by Livestream

Blueregals Garden Railroading Home Page


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

As I understand G Wire, it is best to have the controller turned on and loco address entered BEFORE powering the loco.....


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

*Epilogue*
I put everything back together and everything worked great. The engine, whistle, bells, etc. echoed through our valley. I'm sure the neighbors thought a train was coming (and, it was!!!).


My thanks to Blueregal and Greg Elmassian to convince me in a June MLS thread with objective data to convert to QSI/GWire/NEC Cab, and and to all that replied to this thread. The info was extremely good and helpful getting me to run my train with sound, remotely with batteries. Jonathan at EMW also was great, answering many questions, both through email and on the phone, as I wired everything together. Believe me, having support like this from suppliers is worth it's weight in 'gold'.


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