# Bachman Shay



## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

I have one of the early shays with the plastic trucks with very little running time on it. I did buy the replacement trucks to do some day. I'm getting ready to install the Locolinc card (Phoenix installed several years ago). In reviewing the GIRR Shay tips, I see the suggestion about a Hillside Railways brass replacement piece but have not been able to make any contact with them. Anyone know if they are still around? Next, I will do the wire separation on the newer trucks, but is the brass part still recommended? Next, was there ever a second release of the 2 truck Shay? I know they did a 3 truck with all the DCC and sound but was there ever a DCC ready 2 truck like when they re-released the Climax?


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

I did stumble onto Greg's site ( http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/bachmann-motive-power/shay ) and got my release history explained. Since mine has the 6 screws and LED light, it must be later 2nd run. I'm gathering the "DCC ready" really only applied to the 3 truck Shays? Still wanting to know if the Hillside brass replacement is still recommended and if even available anymore?


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Hillside no longer makes the kits for the shay. Have not for many moons (GRIN). Was basically a rewire job to make the trucks both work from the same inputs. As set up each truck takes power from its wheels and routes it directly to its motor. The rest is sent to a board in the firebox, behind the cylinders, which controls the flickering firebox, lights, and smoke generator.

What the hillside kit did was to cut the wires to the motors in each truck, then introduce two new wires from the board in the firebox (which he also supplied a replacement for) back to each motor. That gave you power pickup from all four wheels for each of the two motors. This can be done easily.

If you want the directions he supplied let me know and I will email them to you.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

I too have the first version shay-mine ran about two hours before I had failure of an axel gear-those first version trucks are a disaster and more or less put me off Bachmann forever, between plastic quality and warranty. I had to buy my replacement trucks. I do however love the detail and other things, I just hate needing to monkey with a new loco due to miserable engineering and low quality materials. But that's me and the rants over.

I suggest that you do a search here, as I recall the old curmudgeon gave a very easy to understand lesson, which I followed. The metal trucks transform the loco entirely. I think the entire change took me slightly over half an hour.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Dont feel to bad having to fiddle with the Bachmann stuff to get it to run right, I am doing that to a $2200 live steamer that doesnt ride correctly from the factory. Wants to teeter totter as they sprung everything. One has to swap in a brass spacer to the rear truck to make it support the rear of the engine, then the driver springs can compensate for any track issues. This is the price we pay to make this stuff affordable, and thus made in the PRC. LGB was one of the few that didnt need any fiddling right out of the box, along with Roundhouse for live steam. Bachmann has come a long way toward the quality that LGB had during Lehmann days. Glad to hear the metal trucks transformed the engine. I have one to convert for a friend one of these days. Mike


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, don't have to do any of that if you check out the thread on Live Steam right here. I used a piece of steel pipe, cut it to conform to the dimensions and placed it in the smoke box to compensate for the weight needed in the front. Nothing else needed as all my runs have been very successful, and no one has posted that they tried it and it doesn't work!


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I have one of the first run shays with a life time warranty. What a joke! Trucks fell apart
after the first run. Cost me $50.00 for replacement trucks. They fell apart after a year
setting in a glass case, with no run time. It is a shelf queen. I'll never buy Bachmann again.
It's to bad they put all that time a money in to design, then turn out a pice of junk.

My 3 cents.

Don


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Trains said:


> I have one of the first run shays with a life time warranty. What a joke! Trucks fell apart
> after the first run. Cost me $50.00 for replacement trucks. They fell apart after a year
> setting in a glass case, with no run time. It is a shelf queen. I'll never buy Bachmann again.
> It's to bad they put all that time a money in to design, then turn out a pice of junk.
> ...


Don I have/had the same sentiments-but the replacement trucks helped me like the loco. It is gorgeous, but so delicate as the plastic ages. 

I have yet to buy another Bachmann loco, as, regardless of 'selective retention' of posted negative B'M loco (connie, climax, heisler, K, mallet, etc) info on my part, it seems most if not all of B'M locos need remedial work, and they certainly are no longer economy models. Clearly, given the intricacy, they are well engineered on screen, but never tested.

They are the BEST looking locos, the Mike and consolidation and mallet are breathtaking, but I simply cannot abide a looker that is a PITA to run and enjoy. Nothing irks me more than a loco that simply wont run as it should. Had enough of that as a child with early n scale locos. Id rather deal with locos with silly bright colors, odd compression and proportions and oversized flanges that work......


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

You know it's really funny how I read both comments about bachmanns being junk and also readding after a little work they are great runners. How can it be both?


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I have 7 Bachmann engines and have not had any trouble with them at all. I have 2 shays, 2 Annie's, 2 porters, a Connie and an indie all converted to battery. No serious operational problems with any of them.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

mickey said:


> You know it's really funny how I read both comments about bachmanns being junk and also readding after a little work they are great runners. How can it be both?


I guess it because someone knows how to make something work properly when the factory doesn't.

I guess its because they offered brittle plastic which shrank and cracked in the truck assemblies, in essence defective, and then later, offered revised assemblies, which worked. 

Before the second gen metal trucks were offered, I spent about seven hours (after about one total running ) adjusting and repairing and replacing various items on my new but broken toy, lessening the heavy drag of the ball bearing electrical pick ups against the wheels, replacing the cracked gears on the axels, and other fixes. This worked. I wasn't happy about having to spend money for parts, or that much time let me say.


Speaking for myself, it was my expectation that a new loco perform reasonably, and be made from decent materials, at least as nice and reliable as most HO locos. 

It was also my expectation that if a maker knows they have issued something unsuitable for its purpose, they should offer, free of charge, the replacement parts. And they should make customer experience pleasant and easy, and low or no cost.

LGB did this, no hassles. Bachmann, as I recall, required me to ship the entire loco back-about 50 dollars at the time, risk damage in route, be without the loco and additionally pay for the upgraded trucks. Junk? Perhaps not, but hassle and a bad experience, undoubtedly.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The Bachmann of 20 years ago is not the same Bachmann of 10 years ago and today. You must give credit where credit is due, and Bachmann--for all the criticism they've endured over the years--has really gone through great lengths to right the ship with their latest locos and re-releases of older ones. 

Consider the criticism that we've heard of Bachmann of late. The 45-tonner is "too big." The 2-6-6-2 "has no real prototype." The Forney "isn't 2' gauge." The C-19 is "too expensive." What do any of these criticisms have to do with how the locomotives actually _run_? None whatsoever! They all run very well. Likewise, there's been virtually no criticism of the re-released Porters or industrial mogul or Climax. 

We on the forums tend to be a very vocal group about even the most minuscule perceived flaw of any locomotive. "No news is good news" is  definitely the mantra on forums when it comes to how products work. The silence relative to mechanical difficulties of Bachmann's latest products speaks volumes towards their much-improved reliability. 

Yeah, Bachmann has had its share of Pintos and Edsels. Every manufacturer has their dogs. I've been pleased with the direction Bachmann has been going lately, though. The trend is certainly in the right direction. Whether that's enough to counter their earlier reputation any time soon, I can't say. Still, I think it only fair when someone speaks to early problems to balance that with later successes.

Later,

K


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Kevin I don't mean to be negative, or to falsely make accusations, but let me say, based on only what I recall from this forum, and perhaps another, that 

the Connie (2008)
After reading all the comments about this engine I think I will wait for the "new improved" version.Â* I had one of their 'connies' and the counter weights kept coming loose on it and the motor came loose from the gearbox among other things.Â* I lost a screw off the drive gear cover on the bottom and tried to get a replacement from Bachman.Â* All I got was an idiot on the other end of the phone.Â* It seems they have not learned a thing


the K's had some issue with a wheel screw hanging up on either the counterweights or rods, the three truck shay, as I recall, has had bad reviews, the climax is known, I believe for not tracking well as well as having trucks that are prone to breakage, etc. 

The Consolidation (2011) : "I recently purchased a Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 Consolidation from a local on line hobby shop, I placed it right out of the box on my test track and applied power, the loco ran but there seemed to be a problem, I connected several AMS box cars and again applied power and the motor ran but the loco did not. I assumed it was a gear problem, before calling the hobby shop I called Bachmann and talked with a tech there he told me it was probably a cracked gear, and it was a common problem. When I spoke to the hobby shop they said they were unaware of any problems inherent to this model. 

If my memory is wrong I apologize. If not, clearly things are better but not all that 'long ago'.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Steve, no argument about the "Connie" (outside frame 2-8-0). The bad gear on that is well documented, and I've replaced that gear on so many I can almost do it blindfolded. _The loco was first produced in late 2001, and has been out of production for quite some time._ I don't know how long it was actively rolling off the production line, but I doubt it was more than just a few years if that. The one purchased in 2011 was almost certainly "new old stock" that had been sitting on the shelf for a while. Bachmann never did an updated production run of the 2-8-0 like they have some of the other locos, so it has not gone through a recent redesign like the others have. 

Bachmann _has_ released a replacement drive axle with brass gear on it as a spare part. ($10). They were asked at one point whether they plan on re-releasing the 2-8-0 in the future, and if they did, would it have upgraded gearing. The answer was that they have no plans on re-releasing it, but all locos are now using upgraded gear materials.

The K-27's "loose counterweight" issue was also well documented, and remedied by the factory with the 2nd production run which occurred just a few months after the first. (That, and they provided replacement counterweights to those with faulty ones.) Opinions differ on the gear ratio of the K, but in terms of reliability, they've proven very good, very strong runners.

Mechanically, the 3-truck Shay has no issues. It uses the die-cast trucks introduced with the 2nd run of the 2-truck Shay. I've had a few of them cross my workbench and they're absolute stump pullers. The "weirdness" with the 3-truck Shay is that the version equipped with the DCC decoder can't handle DCC track voltages north of 21 volts, and most large scale DCC users use track voltages in the 22 - 24 volt range. The loco would go into "over-voltage" mode and stop working. (That was remedied with the c.2011 DCC-equipped Climax.) 

The Climax (early 2000s version) did have some mechanical issues if I recall, stemming from both trucks turning the driveline between them. (Bachmann offered a replacement driveline assembly to fix this on the early Climaxes.) Bachmann re-released the Climax in 2011 with updated electronics and new trucks, and the driveline is only powered by one truck.

The old problems still exist because the old locomotives still exist. You can still buy the outside-frame 2-8-0s, 4-4-0s, and 2-6-0s new off the shelf. They haven't been re-designed since they first came out, so they still suffer the same foibles. The stuff that's been re-designed or released new in the past 7 or 8 years or so has--by and large--proven to be much more robust and reliable than the older stuff. 

Later,

K


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