# Krylon Paint Problem?



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I had primered/painted 844 with Krylon. Had run out and bought a new can of Krylon, when I sprayed it over the previous spray(day later) the paint wrinkled up and the new Krylon did not seem to cover very well at all also. Anyone experience this? I have it all sanded down, but fearful to spray again. Maybe a coat of clear acrylic, then spray over that?


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Jerry- Some paints recommend to paint within 4 hours or after 7 days. I've had a similar problem with Rustoleum on a project. I painted 7 or 8 hours after the first coat and it also wrinkled. You may want to spray your coats closer together (time wise). -Kevin.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder about their mixes?? I to have had troubles. even now I write on cans which work good and which do not. 
I even warm my cans before .


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There was a thread a few months ago about that Krylon had changed formulations in certain paints... search Krylon on the site, maybe you can find that one. 

Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

As expected, doing a search on this site is a waste of time. 

Search Krylon. 

It didn't even find this thread.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I just used the "Search" link at upper right( between "My Settings" and "Members"). Left everything as the default and searched for "Krylon"... I got four pages of hits back.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 05 Mar 2011 07:59 PM 
I just used the "Search" link at upper right( between "My Settings" and "Members"). Left everything as the default and searched for "Krylon"... I got four pages of hits back. 
That's neat - never tried THAT before. And very strange. I just did the same thing and got back only three pages of hits. None for this year, though. I wonder why there's a discrepancy.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Could be that we have our "posts per page" set differently in our profiles Bruce.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Had exactly the same thing happen - with the same can of Krylon. I painted a Bachmann frameless tank car solid black, had a nice even coat, and it looked good. I had one small section, down low, on one side of the tank that was slightly transparent, so, I hit it with a quick spray from the same can. Everywhere the paint touched, it immediately crinkled. Took out most of the one side. 

Yeah. Disassemble. Strip. Clean. Strip some more. Clean. then the Bachmann paint started coming off from the stripper. Cleaned it all up, bought can of model paint and started over. 

Note to self. Never trust Krylon again. 

Funny story, back before the UP bought out the D&RGW, I had the pleasure of visiting the Burnham Shops in Denver to make a delivery, I had some engine parts for an SD-45. I kind of let the shop foreman know I was a foamer, and he offered a tour, including the disassembled SD-45! Too bad it was before cell phone cameras... 

So, anywho, he and I were kind of making fun of model railroaders, even though he knew I was one and a D&RGW modeller at that, and I mentioned the constant bickering between model railroaders about what color "D&RGW Orange" really was. So, I asked him if I could, um, you know, obtain a small sample. So, he offered a whole can! I couldn't believe my luck! 

We went to the paint locker, he opened it, pulled out a box marked Krylon, and handed me a spraycan of Krylon Orange paint... But it was stamped D&RGW Orange on the label. I'm not sure whatever happened to it, or if I still have it, but it was quite an eye-opener to find out what color D&RGW Orange really was... 

Thanks! Robert


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Jerry, I do not have any experience with Krylon (I live in Europe so I use European brands) so I looked at the Krylon site to see if there is any information. 
I noticed you can ask them about the problem you are facing with the paint, what's causing it and how to prevent it from happening again. 
Here is the email address for all questions about the use of Krylon paint: [email protected] 

Paul


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bruce Chandler on 05 Mar 2011 08:05 PM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 05 Mar 2011 07:59 PM 
I just used the "Search" link at upper right( between "My Settings" and "Members"). Left everything as the default and searched for "Krylon"... I got four pages of hits back. 
That's neat - never tried THAT before. And very strange. I just did the same thing and got back only three pages of hits. None for this year, though. I wonder why there's a discrepancy. There was a thread on that issue as well. The MLS world seems to end around 2009 when it comes to onsite searches. Going out to Google and using it to search MLS seems to work much better.



Bummer on the Krylon. So far I have used the fusion on buildings without problems..........yet(edit, one problem with adhesion on a previously painted Con-Cor building, fixed with some sanding of the factory paint). On actual rolling stock models I have used Testors thinned with xylene and shot with an airbrush as I have for years, works a treat, at least on LGB.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Jerry don't know if this will help but. I spray light coats on what ever I am painting..wait a few minutes not long then spray again..wait a few minutes...etc. 
I have had good luck with the Krylon paint for plastic (Fusion), BUT they don't offer a large selection of colors which sucks! Some paints do not like being painted on plastic such as our trains. I use Dull Cote for my alcohol and ink "grunge" , and have found that the process reacts differently on all the brands of plastic.

I spray lightly because when using the rattle cans and not the hobby double action sprayers, the paint comes out way to fast and I get drips....clean start over.

Paint wrinkles are called crazing, which if you are glazing pottery it is in some applications a desired effect, when we paint our engines or what ever it is not!

Some paints do not like being sprayed over various, fillers, plastics, other paints, OR surfaces that are not prepared correctly...in your case I have no clue whay it did not like being sprayed over like paints..UNLESS as stated the different cans had different mixes in them.
Couple of questions.
Was the 1st can FRESH, or had it been sittling around a while, _(do they get Stale, not sure?)?_
Was the new can cold? Marty hit on this one. In winter I always heat the can up under a light bulb before using it.

Can't tell you how many times I have had to reclean what I was painting, then reshoot...but that was with regular paint..never have a problem with the hobby paints with this crazing...just the price for the VERY LITTLE amount in the expensive cans!

I always use Floquil Engine Black for ANY engine I am painting! AND Testors paints for primer...sometimes I tempt fate and use regular paint for things, but not often...If I am painting something that is REALLY important or I want it to be perfect I do not use the Krylon or Rustolium..not worth the risk..I use the hobby paints.
I painted an LGB 4' bridge with Rustolium black, and within a year it litterly started falling apart becomming brittle left out in the sun.

Another thing is that I always have multiple cans of what ever for a project I am doing so I can complete it at one time and move on . With my Dull Cote I have 20 cans on hand, at any given time.

Spraying a coat of acrylic will not give the paint a bite for sticking, and spraying the acrylic onto the paint that is already there may cause it to craz, or the paint you are spraying onto the acrylic may not like the acrylic or BOTH and craz.
Best to test what it is you are wanting to do on like plastics and surfaces before proceding.
Some people sand before applying additional coats...I have never had to do this, or had the patience to do it. 

Hope this info helps

Bubba


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I"m warming up the cans today, sanded it down to the metal foil(covered the boiler with it) and washed it off, so should be good and clean. Will heat up the garage also, I guess. Can work on the Buick also that way.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Bubba, that's what got me in trouble. I brought the car to work with me, opened a window, laid down newspaper and sprayed it in about 5 or 6 coats. I took it home, and it was dry enough to put it back in it's box. When I got up in the morning, I noticed the not-quite-covered area, took it ouside and as soon as the paint from the very same can hit the surface, it went crazed. 

I said a discouraging word. 

Thanks, Robert


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Jerry I forgot to add that when I painted one of my baggage cars for my RR, I had a lot of "fuzz, and or specs" on the car.
I have a paint booth with a fan, and thought that this would cut down on that...it did not.
BUT what DID help was before I painted I sprayed the entire shelf of the paint booth with water in a small bottle sprayer and it cut down TREMENDOUSLY on those unwanted particles.

Also forgot you were spraying on metal..haven't done much of painting metal...but crazing is crazing.

Bubba


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

got back only three pages of hits 

I got 7 pages. But better results with google (even came up with this thread!) 

"site:mylargescale.com krylon "


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Did a little research, and it stated that crazing is usually thermally induced, it has other reasons, chemical, mechanical, but is usually thermally induced...the temp of BOTH the surface you are painting and the temp of the paint....and cohesion factors, like materials.....OK that one is a little deep. 

So what I gather make sure BOTH the surface AND the paint are the same temps..or al least not one cold one warm but both close in temps, and are simular materials/chemical structure.

Can't a guy just point, shoot, and paint, and it work great??? Geezzz! This isn't rocket science!!!









Bubba


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I think that's what happened to me, Bubba. When I took the model outside to make my touchup, it was in the 20's, but the model was at room temperature and so was the paint. 

Thanks, Robert


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Guys, 
Temps is tricky, propellant driven paint will be colder because of the gas release... 

I got crazing by time, here in sunny S Az, then I read the instructions! 

My take is; it's solvent related. Quick enough and the paints bond as the solvent is still evaporating from the first coat. Otherwise wait until first coat has set. In bewteen and the solvent attacks the first while it is tacky/ skinned over. Instead of the 2nd coat's solvent evaporating, it's drawn deeper.... get's trapped and does not so funny stuff. 

John


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

It seems most of the rattle can spray paints say to apply all coats within 1 hour or wait 5 days. (Words to that affect). Letting it sit overnight may be trouble now.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I shoot very light coats one right after the other, just giving enough time to dry a little. So the paint from the rattle cans do not run....seems to work fine.

Bubba


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Usually worked fine for me also, painted many a locomotive. I ended up stripping the foil off and put on new, will try painting it carefully!


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Jerry have never painted metal. Foil or otherwise. Just gave some thoughts that may cross over.
Isn't it strange that things work time after time, then all of a sudden 1 time they don't. My problem is that when it does go wrong I have a problem remembering just what it was I may have done different!









Still hope it helped, I know I learned something researching the crazing thing!
Bubba


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## rocketrider (May 6, 2008)

Jerry,
I too have had problems and called Krylon and was told to spray very light but frequent coats about 1 min apart. I use Krylon primer, paint, and clear coats. Since this no problems. I am also careful to make sure the temp is above 55 and the humitity is not too high. If you must wait then wait a full 24 hours. I also store the paint in the house where it is temp controled.

It is very good paint once you get the system down.

Ralph


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I've been using it for years with no problems until now. Painted the metal foil many times with Krylon.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I had the same problem a while back. I believe it had to do with the formula change they made. I think they made the change based on some new regulations. I use the Matte finish a lot and I could tell the old from the new by the lid, they changed that with the new formula. Not sure about the other colors how to tell. 

In any case, I make sure I have enough to finish one project with one can going forward, never have had another issue.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've started to migrate away from Krylon since they "reformulated." (I've got another word for it, but this is a family forum.) I've been using Val-Spar paints with success similar to what I was experiencing with the "old" Krylon. With that, I can paint and paint and paint so long as I put new coats on within 1 hour of each other. Since I plan my painting time such that I can get everything painted within such a window, I haven't had the need to "test" the time between coats after that 1 hour has passed. 

Later, 

K


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

The metal foil was pretty awful looking, after all the cleaning/sanding. So I peeled it off(sticks good!) and have put new foil on the boiler. Actually this worked out pretty good, doing a better job and adding a bit more detail. It isn't like I was going to run it today out in the snow anyway!


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## Bill Martinsen (Mar 4, 2008)

I've been watching this thread with interest since I had some problems with Krylon paints on a recent loco project. I find it interesting that the label on a can of Krylon does not indicate which type of paint is in the can. I asked the Krylon folks how we could tell. Here's their response. 



Bill,

Thank you for your inquiry with the Krylon website. We appreciate your taking the time to contact us. 

Lacquer paint has a recoat time of Anytime.

Enamel paint will have a very specific recoat time. 

Also, the product numbers for the enamel products start with a #5. 

Thank you again for your inquiry. Let us know if you have any other questions, and good luck with your project. 

Sincerely, 

Roger 

Product Support


I also learned that some colors are still available as acrylic lacquers in the industrial spray paint cans that Krylon calls SparVar. 


Bill Martinsen


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I tried the Krylon can again, on some scrap. Can was warmed up and it was a warm day. Paint came out thin and runny. So I gave up and used the new Rustoleum primer and Satin black, worked great! Guess I'll give up on Krylon. Had bought the can at Walmart, maybe like most Walmart stuff, it was made cheaper? Last can I got at True Value and it worked fine. I've found quality differences between the stores on other items.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I have heard that Wal-Mart sells tires, of same brands of real tire stores and they are of lesser quality...BUT I only have heard that and do not know this to be fact...does anyone?

Bubba


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## DTI356 (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, 

I'm curious, what color/finish was the can of paint in question? You didn't specify that. 

If it was Satin black I wouldn't be surprized. I had a can of it recently that appeared to be much thinner (transparent) than previous cans. Maybe a bad batch got past quality control ? I threw my can away (don't like wasting money but don't want to ruin a project even more).


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, were you using the "standard" Krylon or "Fusion".... I've had very good results with the "standard" paint but lousy ones with "Fusion".


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Satin Black, regular can, never have used Fusion.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Brian, I'd echo your thoughts on the satin black. I bought a can and found it very thin as well, which pretty much sealed my decision to switch to Val-Spar's paints instead. I'm used to two coats and done--this took twice as many. 

Later, 

K


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Most spray paints for consumer uses are enamels; if not, they will usually state what they are (i.e., lacquer or acrylic enamel). 

Standard enamels will require an immediate recoat while the original coat(s) are still tacky...otherwise, you must wait a minimum of 72 hours (yes, 3 days), so that the original enamel coat can fully "gas out" and cure. Lower temperatures and higher humidity levels can stretch this out to 3 weeks before the enamel is fully cured. 

From my experience, if a spray can comes out runny & streaming, there is a clog somewhere inside the can, and it is no longer usable. Be sure to soak your spray can tips in a small jar of paint thinner (the good clear stuff, NOT the white milky "Pro-Level" or "Professional" crap) to keep them cleared; you'll be amazed at the difference when using them after a good soak!! 

Jerry mentioned that he warmed the cans up before spraying; this is a TREMENDOUS help! BUT, please use only hot TAP water, do NOT boil the water, especially with the can sitting in the boiling water, unless you want said paint can color all over your stove & kitchen. Please use only hot TAP water! I use a large metal dog water bowl (retired one, of course) and let the paint cans sit in the warm water for 2-3 minutes. You'll be amazed at the difference. 

Yes, having the items being painted be at least room temperature will help a lot...if the item is cold, say below 50-degrees F, the paint won't settle like it should and you can end up with all kinds of problems. Try to make sure your painted items are at least room temperature before painting them. You can make a low-budget spray booth with a cardboard box and a small cheap fan from Wal-Mart to spray inside a warm area but vent the fumes & overspray outside when the outside temps are low, or it is raining. 

Wal-Mart spray paints are cheap but reliable, I've had excellent results with them over the years. They are typically a solvent-based enamel and clean up wonderfully with good old paint thinner. 

Some Wal-Marts carry Dupli-Color auto touch-up spray paints. These are gorgeous and color-sand beautifully. However, they are lacquers, which means they spray on "hot" onto surfaces, so if you've used an enamel primer, be sure to spray on a few VERY LIGHT coats of Dupli-Color first, and let them dry, before spraying heavier color coats. That way they won't eat into the enamel primer. OR, you could use Tamiya spray primers (white or gray), which are lacquer-based and handle Dupli-Color spray paints quite well. 

Good luck!


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