# Ruby 2 OR&L #6



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

After a year of waiting I finally got my upgrade cylinders and have already been drawing up plans for the Ruby conversion to OR&L number 6. 








This is how she looked around 1904 and possibly 06, so this is the look I'm going for in my conversion.
Below is what she looks like today.









The cab still looks basically the same but the front pilot stack and a few other details have changed some what.
The name on the side is Kauila. I have read in NSH, and STP, that the name Kauila means either lightening or refers to a type of

native wood in Hawaii. There is one more possibility that I can't verify because as is the case with many Hawaiian names it depends on
what the namer had in mind. Kauila is also the name of a legendary Sea Turtle that was said to protect and nurture the children. 

If you look at pictures above she kind of does give the impression on a turtle with her big saddle tank and the smoke stack seeming to peer up 
out of her shell. So may be it was never intended by the person that gave number 6 the name Kauila, but her name sake will always be the

Mythilogical Sea Turtle Kauila watching over the children and keeping them safe 
I'm still getting a couple of other projects off my work table, just finished an electric guitar for my brother in law, about to finish my tender moderenization and after that, 

I will put coach 64 on hold and start Kauila.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, 

I like the "charlie noble" shown in the photo at the top of Kauila's stack. It make's one appreciate what a rain downpour can really be like. 

Will the conversion be 7/8th's or 1:20.3? 

Steve


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

That's an interesting question Steve, I was going for a 1:20.32 scale,,, why do you ask? 
Also, here's another question for you, would they have kept the "charlie noble" on top of the stack after converting her to oil?


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, 

Kauila's low boiler profile, saddle tank, and TALL chimney looks very much like Argyle Loco Works' "Bantam". I wondered if Ruby's boiler is too high to get the same effect. 

If Kauila were standing still in a real downpour without the charlie noble maybe she would get enough water down the stack to partially flood that tiny smokebox and the lower flues. Not sure whether an oil fire would be less affected than coal, but it couldnt be good. 

Steve


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like a "Mortimer" would be an easier engine to "bash".


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## Jeff Livingston (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Rick, 

Bob Paoa and I do not believe that picture in NSH is OR&L #6 but rather a plantation engine. Check Conde's "Sugar Trains Pictorial", If I recall correctly there is an early picture of #6 while she was still an 0-4-0. She's pulling a small flat with a barrel. The saddle is reversed also at some point in her life. 

Jeff Livingston 
Kaneohe, Hawaii


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Steve, 
Thanks for pointing that out, looks like I'm going to have to figure out a way to lower the boiler. 
Bill, 
I'd have to take you word on that, but the point isn't ease, the point is modeling an engine that is of historical importance to me. I know I may only be able to approximate the appearance of Kauila in order to have an engine that runs, but, I'm willing to sacrifice accuracy for function, since I'm green where steam is concerned  
Jeff, 
Yeah, I was not able to locate that exact pic in STP, but I did find several from earlier periods that show the reverse tank. If you look closely on the pic above, you can also see that the tank is reversed. On all the pics the boiler was lower than the Ruby boiler. I may not be able to lower it to within the same scale measurements as Kauila, but I will try to get as close as functionally possible to that height. I have one thing going for me, the wheels on the Ruby are about 1.3 scale inches too big, Kauila's wheel size was 28" so the scale will be off a little, but I think I'm going to have to live with that, if I want the model to run well.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

The boiler can be lowered around 3/16" or so without too much trouble. I did it on my Tuscarora Valley #2 conversion. You get rid of the small saddle, and bend the steam pipe down below the boiler to clear. 










You'll have to build a new saddle, but that's part of the fun, also. 

Later, 

K


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

Richard,

just keep submitting photos as you build.

Bill


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

k, 
What did you do with the linkage to the Johnston bar? (forward and reverse lever?) 
Bill, 
Right now, I'm in the planing stage, I've been taking the parts out and trying to determine what can be modified without impacting the performance of the model. As soon as I get into the actual modifications, I will include pics. BTW, if anyone has pointers they care to share with me, or warnings, I am more than happy to receive them. If it looks like I'm doing something that is just not feasible from a steam mechanics point of view then let me know. For example, the new cylinders are cool, but the outside surface where the steam chest meets the top of the mount, looks like I can flatten that our a tiny bit to look even more prototypical. I notice that quite a bit of it is cut away on the inside surface to make way for the mounting bracket. Will that weaken the cylinder? Mind your I only need to take off about less than a 1/16". And if that's okay, what about rounding off some of the sharp corners around the steam chest? Not much, more like a bishopiing or brazing the sharp corners?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

It stilll runs under the boiler as stock. I think I rebent it a bit to better fit in the new cab, but that's it. The steam line runs just to the side of the reverse rod. 

Later, 

K


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I've got a question for some of you experts out there. I've heard I can bake the paint at 122 F for 30 minutes. Does that include the valve chests?


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Hey Richard, 
I know you ask for opinions from experts, but I can tell you what I did on my Ruby to Mason Bogie bash. I used plain old Krylon spray cans, primed and then color coat. I painted my valves and cylinders bolted together as a single unit. I baked the paint at 295 F for two hours. The painting was documented on pages 4 and 5 of my post. http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...11/tpage/1/view/Topic/postid/189/Default.aspx 

I am NO expert, as this was my first locomotive of any type. The paint has held up well and I had no problems baking at 295 F. 
Hope this helps. 
redbeard AKA Larry Newman SA #1956


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Since the cylinders and valves opperate at more than 200deg F there should be no problem baking paint. I do start with a cold oven so the parts warm up more uniformly. As for rounding of the corners of the valve chests, that is OK, I did it on my Forney. I don't quite understand what you are trying to flatten. I do think that in most cases you can hog out quite a bit as long as you don't get too close (like less than 1/16 inch) to steam passages or screw holes and leave plenty of surface for gaskets.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks Winn, Larry. I won't need to hog out more than 1/32 and no where near the gasket. I'll put up some pics when I'm done. 
In the meantime, I want to document a mistake I made on the first post of this thread. As it turns out NSH, mislabeled that engine. It is not Kauila. The size of the boiler, the boiler supports, the cab and front coupler pocket are all wrong for that engine at any time period. Also, she does not bare the road acronym for OR&L on her tank or the number 6 anywhere. I will post some real images of her around 1906 if I can find them. If not, I will post some excellent shots that Jeff Livingston took of her in her present condition. 
I have a spec sheet arriving sometime this week and I will post more information on her for those interested in modeling an engine of that classification. I have this small bit of information for now. 
Kauila is a 4-10- 1/2-C class engine built June 1889 by Baldwin.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Even though I don't have the specs or an erection drawing, I decided to test assemble the frame. This turned out to be a good thing. 
First of all, I'd like to give who ever packed this kit and who ever designed the packaging a big wet kiss on the lips. It is one of the best 

packed kits I have ever assembled. Every part is clearly marked and even though there is one discrepancy in identifying a part in the 

stop by step instructions, the exploded views so far have no errors.

The instructions warn that you should not apply "force" to insert the driver bushings into the frame sides. A test fitting showed that I needed to 

remove the paint from the inside of the holes for the bushings, or risk "forcing" them to fit. On one of the bushings I had to do some careful filling 
to get the ideal fit.


Too much pressure and the frame could warp. Despite my best efforts, the frame must have already been slightly warped. As the image above
shows, I had to shim out the left front side of the frame so the drivers could roll freely. After attaching the mounting plate and cross beams I 

discovered that the front, but not the back drivers were binding up and lubricating them made no difference. Some brass shim solved the problem
and the drivers are coasting freely.










I filed that little setback in the cylinders with a small file by hand. It didn't take long and while it isn't exactly like the prototype, it does give the impression
of being like the prototype.










I also bent the steam pipe down as suggested. I still need to fabricate a new boiler saddle, and paint the cylinders and valves, which leads me to another
paint question; Can I use a metal etchant to prep the brass for painting? Or would that ruin the gaskets?


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Realizing that I should test run the cylinders before I got things painted and had take the cylinders apart or something,,,,well, actually I just got antsy and had to see em run  








You can't tell but those little wheels are spinning like crazy under 30 psi. I tried forward and reverse and they both work great on the little rig. 
I spent the better part of the morning assembling the running gear and tuning it up. 2 things were minor frustrations and in all honesty I sort of liked that I had to do something extra for a change. 
1. The cylinder shaft on the new cylinders are exactly 1/8" in diameter, while the shafts on the old cylinders are less than a 1/64" under (My only calibers are starett, but they are for cabinet makers and only go to 1/64. I'm going to have to get a decent set of machines calibers if I'm going to keep doing this) 
I had to drill out the cross head by hand using a pin vise and then ream the finish hole just slightly. 
2. The valve rods are weak on the model. They are made of brass and bend way too easy and the threads ended up being too big for the valves and the lock nuts. The kit shipped with some tools. Fortunately one of the tools was the appropriate size tap for taping the valves and the nuts. To tell you the truth, I would have prefered the right size die, so I could work on the threads of the valve rods, the valves are stainless steel and a bear to tap. 

Those problems aside and much too my amazement and glee, she works,,, and works well I might add, in reverse as well as forward! You can't tell from the photo above, but those wheels are spinning like crazy. I can not convey the excitement at watching this model work! It was like Christmas morning when I was 6 years old and got my first train set. I had to tear myself away to get the camera and post this update.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

The orignal piston rods are 3mm but some were also 1/8" The replacements are 1/8" Like you did a 1/8" bit in a hand chuck is all you need as its a difference of .007" 

Glad that you are happy with them.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Jason, 
Thanks, and thanks for hooking me up with them. I'm not just happy with them I am ecstatic!


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Congratulations!!! It really is a great feeling to have an engine run when you get it together!!! When you get it run in a little and everything is set right it should run on 5 PSI or so. Did you reverse the valve timing as per Dave Hottman? Make sure it gets plenty of oil when running on air. The easiest way to do that is to squirt some into the intake line before hooking up the air line.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks Winn, 
It has no load on it, because it's suspended, so I've been running it for a little while on 2 psi (near as I can tell because the pressure gauge I have only measures in increments of 3.3333333 for some strange reason).
"Reverse the valve timing", I recalled reading that in some thread or article, but could not remember the directions, so I just followed the guidelines in the assembly directions. It runs smoothly and equally in both reverse and forward. I was expecting some issues with that, and was again pleasantly surprised that there were no problems in reverse or forward. 
I don't know if its Royce's cylinders or just dumb luck but the thing just started going as soon as I turned on the air at 20 psi. 
I did find one thing out while I've been playing around, and don't remember reading this anywhere (although with my memory I could have) If I mess around with the forward and reverse valve a little I can change the speeds of forward and reverse. As it turns out, despite what the instructions say, using that line scribed around the forward and reverse valve as a guide, if you push the valve in, just a hair past the line, it will go faster in forward than if it's lined up perfectly. If you pull the valve out till it stops and then just barely push it in, it goes fast in reverse. Maybe that's normal? 
One question, while I had the frame running under 15 psi, I decided to check for vacuum leaks,,, I mean pressure leaks since this is not internal combustion. I put a little soapy water around the valve chest and the cylinders and noticed that there are a few bubbles forming. 
Is that normal? 
Will it seal up tighter once the cylinders are hot? 
I don't have a miniature torque wrench, and if I did there's nothing in the instructions about the torque pressure. I did follow a cross pattern when tightening the screws down. The leaks don't seem to impact the performance, to check this, I put a piece of melamine on the flanges and pressed up lightly just till the frame lifted and the wheels didn't slow down or hesitate at 20 psi, but they did slow down at 5 psi. Is that the leak? 
If the leak is a critical concern at this point how do I fix it without risking stripping the screws?


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I took the cylinders off this morning in preparation of painting them. I decided while I had them off, to try the stock Ruby cylinders so I would have a reference to compare Royces cylinders too. After all, this is my first live steamer and I really am clueless. 
WOW! what a major disappointment the stock cylinders are. They didn't start spinning till 26 psi or more. I even tried turning them over by hand as instructed in the manual. Nothing, reverse worked at 20 psi just fine,,, in fact reverse was faster at any pressure. 
I tried to run them at 3 psi, 6 psi and they wouldn't budge. They made a sort of jerky motion at 10 psi, but ran smoothly in reverse. Tinkering with the forward and reverse valve made little difference in forward. 
I've got to say that if you are planning on purchasing the Ruby, you may want to consider the upgraded cylinders, especially if this is your first try at Live Steam. I made no mods to the running gear and she runs excellent with the upgrade cylinders. That might change when I hook up the boiler, but I think I can rule out the running gear if I encounter performance problems when I install the boiler.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

This is a verified image of Kauila around 1900. Jeff Livingston and Uncle Bob are both doing the research on this in Hawaii and forwarding me their findings.
I'm only guessing it was around or after 1900 because of the tender below.









This tender was built in 1900 according to the info that Jeff sent me. I've decided that I will model this too because it looks cool with a huge
water barrel I can hide batteries and possible part of an rc unit for the remote controls. 

It turns out Kauila is something of a mystery. 









This image appears in Sugar Trains Pictorials and is identified as Number 6 and the time is given as "around 1895"








This is Kauila on display in 1937 after being decommissioned. As you can see, she is an 0-4-2. When she was converted to that wheel configuration

is still a mystery. 










I'm not sure when this image was taken. It might be before 1917 because from as much as I can tell (not verified) OR&L logo on engines and coaches
was changed to Oahu Railway after 1917. I only have limited photographic evidence to support this assumption at this time. The headlight too seems to be appear
on engines from 1903 to around 1917, but again, that is as far as I can tell from the photographic evidence and the dates assigned by STP and NSH to those images.



One other confusing issue is that Conde claims this is a picture taken before the conversion to a 0-4-2. I've enlarged the image, and it looks like there is a trailing truck under there
hiding in the shadows.


Also, a comparison of the drivers in this pic and the 1900 pic above seems to show that the wheels in this pic are smaller, but in all honesty there is so much shadow
I can't really be sure.


I've got a spec sheet on the engine as it was shipped to Hawaii coming in the mail in a couple of days. I will update this topic with that data as soon as I can transcribe
it to a digital format.


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## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

The wheels appear to be the same size its just that the tires are VERY worn down in the later pictures.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

East, 
Good catch, I didn't notice that. I did some calculations (the best I could with grainy pics) and we have a known dimension which is the wheelbase. The wheels on both are approximately 23.134 inches (Due to the graininess and a shaky hand this measurement is about 99.999% accurate) So taking that measurement in mind, the older image shows drivers 27.445 inches + or - and the newer image shows drivers 25.51 inches + or -. That's almost 2 inches of wear! Is that possible?


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 11/20/2008 10:34 AM
East, 
Good catch, I didn't notice that. I did some calculations (the best I could with grainy pics) and we have a known dimension which is the wheelbase. The wheels on both are approximately 23.134 inches (Due to the graininess and a shaky hand this measurement is about 99.999% accurate) So taking that measurement in mind, the older image shows drivers 27.445 inches + or - and the newer image shows drivers 25.51 inches + or -. That's almost 2 inches of wear! Is that possible?


That isn't 2 inches of wear. It's only one inch of wear. Remember it's on a diameter. 

Chas


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Right


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## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

When we put new tires on the Porter mogul at the museum I volunteer at the tires were about two inches thick. Take into account that it may not all be wear. Railroads would turn down the wheels when they lost profile to reprofile them. You could do this a few times extending the life of the tire. So a lose of an inch worth of material is possible. I have also noticed this on pictures of Maine two foor gauge forneys of the WW&F Railway. 

-Eric


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Specs for Class 4-10-1/2 C Baldwin Locomotive 
That's probably more information than you will ever need or want. 
The Ruby actually ends up being a fairly good frame for this model. The Ruby's wheel base scales out to 45.72" .28" under the specs. 
The Ruby drivers scale out to about 27.94" .06" under the spec. 
The Ruby driver centers scale out to be 23.1775 .8225 under spec 
These are just quick measurements, so they could be a little closer or little further away from the specs. 
Next, I'm going to try and work out a time line for the changes to Kauila during her life time on the OR&L and come up with a list of modifications I'm going to make. 
I'll spare you the details about the time line and just post my modifications before I begin with them.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I've been lowering the boiler today and as a distraction I tried putting on the steam dome. Does anyone know how this is done exactly? Mine is a single piece threaded steam dome. The instructions just say put the dome on. Easier said than done. You can't even catch one thread before the collar hits the boiler.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

The lower section of the dome removes from the top, the threaded part. The sand dome has a retainer that clips on top of the filler cap. Are you using a ruby kit? If so then the domes just sit onto the top of the boiler.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Jason, 
Its a Ruby Kit. The sand dome just slips on top. I went back and gave the top of the steam dome a good hard turn and is as you say, the top does pull off, it was just stuck a little and such a good fit, I thought it was solid.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Got all the parts for a running engine assembled this evening and tested air through the boiler for about an hour. While lowering the boiler, I had to take some measurements and was disappointed to discover that the boiler scales out to be 36". That's 6" bigger to Kauila's last installed boiler and 12" bigger than her original boiler. More unfortunately I am trying to model the 24" boiler. 
QUESTIONS 
1. Can I cut the smoke box off and install a smaller diameter and shorter smoke box with out effecting the performance of the engine? It seems easy enough to do. 
2. Any recommendations on what I can use as steam oil that is readily available at a hardware store or automotive parts place? The nearest place that sells it is about an hour away, and I'm jonesin to fire this thing up and see it work under steam, even if just for a few minutes before I tear her down and do my mods.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

1) Shouldn't be too much of an issue, except that you need to make sure the flue exhaust still fully enters the smokebox. I'm not sure you've got quite that much room on the bottom between the bottom of the flue and the bottom of the boiler. Of course, if you hide the entire boiler inside the saddle tank, then this isn't an issue. You can line up the bottom edges, and go from there. 

2) I've heard some folks using Lucas oil from the auto store as a stand-in for steam oil. I've not tried it myself, but if you check the archives here--maybe go back to the old forum archives--you'll probably find a reference or two to it. 

Later, 

K


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks K, will any weight Lucas oil do? I've went to the auto supply store and they don't have it.


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

Before I use "steam oil", it has to have "steam oil" on the container. Too much invested to try something that may not work.

have you tried rc-steamers.com (800-845-8978) or California & Oregon Coast Railway, www.cocry.com (800-866-8635). Or try Ron Brown as to who would have steam oil on the west coast.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Bill, 
Thanks, I have order steam oil from the Accucraft store. Hopefully that will arrive before I finish the loco. I just want to fire up with steam for a few minutes before I tear her down and start making the mods mentioned above.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

When running an engine on compressed air, just about any lubrication is okay to use... motor oil, "3 in 1", sewing machine oil, chainsaw oil, Lucas Oil Treatment... as long as it is a lubricant and has no suspended particulate matter and does not attack anything used as seals. You just squirt some on the surfaces, or slop some down the steam delivery pipe to get it spread on the sliding surfaces, and the compressed air does not blow or wash it away.

But remember that STEAM is used to clean oil off of objects so just any oil will not work when running the engine using steam. Steam will wash away ALL of those libricants... ALL of them... and you then are running your engine dry (i.e.: without lubrication) except for the steam itself.

Petroleum oil does NOT mix with the steam, it can be delivered to the system, but it will not spread to all the surfaces in the presence of hot steam and some surfaces will not be lubricated.


The original lubrication used in steam engines was TALLOW... or Animal Fat. You would probably be better off to boil some fatty beef or ham in a pot and skim off the lard that rises to the top, strain it in a fine mesh strainer and use the result, than to use any other type of oil. Animal Fat will homogenize with the steam and when the steam condenses on the sides of the cylinder it provides lubrication until the heat and steam washes it away... it does not stick any better than any other oil, it must be continuously replenished, thus the in-line steam oil reservoir that continuously supplies a small amount of oil into the steam delivery pipe.

The problem with straight animal fat (tallow) is that tallow will burn (oxidize) at the temperatures of Super Heated steam. The Ruby is not a true Super Heated engine, but it usually does have the steam delivery pipe traveling through the area of the burner flame. The fact that the pipe is so near the flame does introduce the problem that if you were to use plain tallow it would probably burn in that pipe and burnt tallow will both clog the pipe and scar/score the sliding surfaces... both of which you don't want to happen to your engine. Mixing the animal fat with petroleum oil prevents the oxidation of the animal fat in the superheater.

The next possibility, (if you just HAVE TO run your engine but have absolutely no way to get Steam Cylinder Oil) is to mix the tallow obtained from boiling beef or ham with Mineral Oil (the stuff you get at the drug store to use as a mild laxative or what some women use to remove some types of facial makeup). The mixture is PROBABLY less than 30% tallow and more than 70% mineral oil... but "I" do NOT know for sure the ratio of the two ingredients.

The best bet is to run it on compressed air with a light motor oil injected every 10 to 15 minutes or get some REAL "Steam Cylinder Oil".

Can the engine be run with other types of oil? YES! BUT, with reduced lifetime and the possibility of extensive damage that can occur without advance notice that it is gonna happen... kind of like, can you whack a priceless glass vase (pronounce that as "vazz") with a hammer.. sure, but if you hit it too hard just once you no longer have an intact vazz. Do you want to take that chance?

Your engine, your money, your time, your decision.

"Crisco" might be usable.. but I have no idea whether vegetable oils would be useful. Extra Virgin Olive Oil, "Wesson Oil", and the like, I just have no idea what is in them or at what temperature they would break down/oxidize and lose their usefulness (or worse) and allow your engine to be running without lubrication. Remember, steam under pressure is at a higher temperature than 212 degrees. (At 30 PSI it is at 274 deg. 45 PSI is at 293 deg and 60 PSI is at 307 deg.) They would also have to mix equally well with water and any other oils in the system and not attack or degrade any materials they come in contact with (seals). I would also be concerned with solid contaminants in any commercial lards or cooking oils.

Have you checked your telephone directory for Oils? I bought a 5 gallon pail of Steam Cylinder Oil from the local Heating Oil company for $30.00 a few years ago. IT is still used by many companies that use steam generated by power companies. Granted, that is WAY TOO MUCH oil for one guy to use in a whole lifetime, but at just $30.00, I am way ahead of those that are paying $5.00 or $10.00 for a pint or less every couple of years.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks C.T. 
I decided to give it a short try anyway, with some gear oil. Nothing happened, in fact the thing never seemed to steam up properly, but I'm not experienced so I gotta ask, what happens when the safety valve pops? Shouldn't there be a pop or something? I ran through two tanks of butane, before I even heard a slight hiss, from the valve. I put my finger over it and a very weak stream of air was coming out of it. I eased off on the throttle and some water shot through the smoke stack. 
Now note that I was very care careful to only put in 80ml with the syringe and no more. 
Suspecting that maybe some water got into the boiler from my compressor, I let the engine cool and dumped all the water out and started over again. The same thing happened. I had two tanks of butane and just a very weak stream of air coming from the safety valve. 
Firing the burner itself up was something of a trail. I remember reading a thread on this forum where someone mentioned that the gas control valve was "touchy" that would be an understatement. I went through a book of matches before I found out I couldn't hardly open the valve in order to light it. 
A quarter, and eighth and a sixteenth of a turn were too much. A bare touch was all it took, then I could open in a 1/16 turn and it made this sort quiet torch sound. But no real steam. I experimentally opened the valve up again, and nothing but water coming out the stacks, and those leaks I mentioned before. 
Is 80 ml too much?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 11/25/2008 2:31 PM
Thanks C.T. 
I decided to give it a short try anyway, with some gear oil. Nothing happened, in fact the thing never seemed to steam up properly, but I'm not experienced so I gotta ask, what happens when the safety valve pops? Shouldn't there be a pop or something? I ran through two tanks of butane, before I even heard a slight hiss, from the valve. I put my finger over it and a very weak stream of air was coming out of it. I eased off on the throttle and some water shot through the smoke stack. 
Now note that I was very care careful to only put in 80ml with the syringe and no more. 
Suspecting that maybe some water got into the boiler from my compressor, I let the engine cool and dumped all the water out and started over again. The same thing happened. I had two tanks of butane and just a very weak stream of air coming from the safety valve. 
Firing the burner itself up was something of a trail. I remember reading a thread on this forum where someone mentioned that the gas control valve was "touchy" that would be an understatement. I went through a book of matches before I found out I couldn't hardly open the valve in order to light it. 
A quarter, and eighth and a sixteenth of a turn were too much. A bare touch was all it took, then I could open in a 1/16 turn and it made this sort quiet torch sound. But no real steam. I experimentally opened the valve up again, and nothing but water coming out the stacks, and those leaks I mentioned before. 
Is 80 ml too much?


Well, I don't have a lot of experience with the Ruby... friend of mine has one and as I remember he fills the boiler completely full and then withdraws a given amount of water... which I think is 30 ml. The idea being enough water to cover the flue by about 1/8 to 1/4 inch and have some space above that for steam to form.

As the the safety valve. Some will make quite a POP when they release and some just slowly spit and sputter until they are fully open. But it doesn't sound like you got much steam pressure.

Water out the stack is normal for the first few rotations of the wheels and then it should diminish to almost none in a very few more. The steam condenses in the relatively cold pipes and cylinders and you get water there until the material heats up enough to not cool the steam so quickly.

Another cause of water out the stack is too much water in the boiler, which is called "priming" and the above procedure will take care of that unless the water gets to foaming and then it could be a problem again. Foaming is caused by contaminants in the water... oil, detergents, etc. Full sized engines had the same problem and sometimes the backwoodsy folk would toss a sack of potatoes in the tender (or even the boiler) to counter-act it! ... not recommended model boiler practice... just use distilled water and all should be okay. If the boiler has some oil or something in it, just rinse it out a couple of times... even use some alcohol as a rinse agent... should not take much, just enough to cut the oil and such.

The fuel control valve has a coarse thread so a little rotation is a lot of horizontal movement and very little movement is a lot of difference in the amount of fuel being delivered. The threads are also a bit of a loose mate and so touching the stem will vary the amount of opening for fuel to flow and that makes it difficult to control. Some folk put a spring between the valve body and the stem knob to hold the threads at one end and this mitigates the problem somewhat.

Now, as for your difficulty in getting steam... do you have a pressure gage? If so, what did it read?

If not, hmmm... are you sure the fire was burning in the flue tube and not in the smokebox? Bad to have it in the smoke box! Does not heat the water and burns the paint on the outside.

Ruby owners should jump in here today and clarify the amount of water in the boiler and maybe give a better idea of what the problems is... I got the "Theory" down pat, but as a fellow (well.. Lady) Engineer once told me... "Theory and the real world are not related!"


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

C.T. thanks, for the info. 
I'm certain the fire is not in the smoke box, as the instructions warned against that and in order to get it out of the box I had to get the right touch on the fuel shut off valve. Its burning nice and blue inside the flue. 
Nope, no gauge, but I did notice that the valve never sputters, but just hisses very quietly once some heat is built up. 
I'll try cleaning out the tank, perhaps during packing something got introduced and just needs to be rinsed out. 
As I looked into the tank through the fill hole, I did notice that the water was just over the flue and that there was plenty of room for steam, so maybe it is a contaminate possibly even introduced by my compressor. 
I am using distilled water as directed. 
"Theory and the real world are not related!" Truer words were never spoken!


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If your compressor is not an "Oilless" it could have introduced a lot of oil into the boiler and probably should be rinsed out. Still... a bit of water out the stack is normal at startup. Most locos get the nickname of "ol' slobber stack" for a good reason!









I can't remember what the Ruby's safety valve configuration is... does it have a stem that you can lift or pull to release the pressure (use needle nose pliers!!!)? If so, you should get a good blast of steam from it when it is pulled if the boiler is up to operating pressure. Otherwise it might just leak a bit and that is kind'a normal for toy boilers.

I hate to apply "air pressure" from a compressor to a boiler... but... does the safety lift when running from your compressor? Should probably lift (either rapidly or slowly) at between 35 and 45 PSI, maybe a bit more, I am not sure of the Ruby "working pressure".... BE VERY CAREFUL to NOT apply pressure much above about 50 PSI... NEVER EVER when using just AIR. I know people do it, but it is not worth the danger!









A proper "Boiler Hydrostatic Presure Test" is done with nothing but water in the boiler and pressure applied using a water pump... NO AIR! Then you can go to 1.5 to 2 times the working pressure (maybe 100 to 120psi) with absolutely no danger of a voilent release of schrapnel.









But with air or steam... whoa and woe







... That is what the safety valve is to prevent







!


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 11/25/2008 2:31 PM

Now note that I was very care careful to only put in 80ml with the syringe and no more. 


How much water did you put into the boiler with the syringe? 80ml? Dont fully understand that statement


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

C.T. 
Its not oiless, and I cleaned it out as you instructed (with alcohol and distilled water), but all looked pretty good. Re tried it again. Filled up the butane tanks. Used that first tank and got no pressure and not much heat after about 20 minutes. 
Realized that I was probably running the burner a little too low, since the temp around the boiler was less than 80 degrees. 
I filled with butane tank one more time and this time turned the burner up. The air around the boiler heated up to around 120 degrees and finally the safety valved hissed. But it didn't issue any steam. 
I opened the throttle a little and the water started coming out with the steam. Cranked the wheels by hand to warm the cylinders up and the wheels spun a little and then stopped. 
BTW, I filled the tank all the way like you said your friend did, it took 2 - 60 mil syringes to fill it = 120 mils. I took out 30 ml. So I'm guessing there is 90 ml of water this time. The wheels did struggle to turn and did go for all of a second, then stopped not sure whats going on, but will not proceed to the mods until I'm sure she will roll under steam. 
Jason, 
I put in 80 ml of water into the boiler. The syringe is only 60 ml so I put in 1 and 1/3rd syringes full of water in the boiler. The reason I brought it up was because there is a lot of water coming out of the stack and around the cylinder heads when I open the throttle, even a little bit. 
CAN ANYONE TELL ME is it normal for pressure to escape through the cylinder heads? I've asked before, but never got a definitive answer. It doesn't seem to interfere when running on air so I'm guessing it shouldn't with steam right? 
I tried tightening the screws on the front and back and one cylinder seems to leak more than the other. I fixed the seal on the valves by leveling the cylinders a tad on a nice flat surface. 
Any answers and help would be appreciated.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Boiler is clean and you finally got some steam out the stack and the wheels turned a bit.

This just leaves that maybe you do not have enough fire or have too much leakage.

There will always be some leaking, especially at any gland where a shaft passes into the steam space. There might be some at joints so seams where two pieces are fit together, but that should be very minimal... VERY minimal.

Do you have gaskets around the seams? Again, I don't know the Ruby itself, but I would suspect that there should be a paper or fiber sheet around any opening that has a cover over it. The sheet should be soaked in steam oil to help seal. Aster supplies a silicone bathtub caulking compound to put on the gaskets, but that often leads to damage to the parts if (ha! WHEN!) the parts need to be separated to make adjustments, thus it is recommended by some to just smear some oil on them to make them swell a bit and seal better. Gasket material is easy to come by... look in your wallet for $1.00 bills... you can get lots of gaskets from just one of them and they cost only $1.00 per bunch, whereas if you order something from a supplier it will cost many dollars for less material... just cut them out with a very sharp knife or scissors.

As to the fire... I wonder if maybe you have been scared into using too little fire. Turn the gas up until you definitely get a fire in the firebox and then turn it down until it pops back into the flue... that is the max point you want... once you get steam pressure, you can turn it down to keep the safety from losing too much steam.

You could also be losing power if the steam is bypassing any of the valves or pistons.. known as "Blow by"... This could be caused by scored/scared cylinders or missing piston rings, but if it works on air, it oughta work on steam... maybe better on steam!


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

C.T. 
You made my day,,, and people complain that 'you can't get much for a dollar these days'  
One cylinder has a ton of steam and water coming out of the seam for the tail piece were it meets the cylinder casing and around the screws. The other just a few bubbles now and then and mostly around the screws. 
The first time, I definitely wasn't getting enough heat. The second time, I did just as you described, a little blue ball of flame was at the tip of the flue and the smoke box, I just turned it back a breath and I had a quiet roar in the flue and the boiler heated up quickly. 
I think, I just might have a faulty safety valve. The thing emits a steady stream of air as soon as real heat has been on for a while and never any steam, which is odd, because I do get steam in the cylinders and the stack as soon as I open the throttled. 
I'm going to take her apart again, and take that cylinder apart and use a dollar for some gaskets on her. 
Do you think lowering the boiler could have had any affect on her? She sure goes good under air pressure, but come to think of it, even when I was running air into her tank, she always had at least 20 psi coming from my compressor, so an air leak wouldn't mean anything under those conditions would it.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want to go expensive you could use a five dollar bill or be some sort of elitist and use a 50 or 100.














But I wonder if that little ribbon embedded in them (that shows the denomination when you hold it up to the light) might intefere with a good seal.

I don't think the safety is faulty just because you don't see a plume of steam from it. (Really wish it had a pressure gage!). Test the safety with air pressure... maybe screw it into the end of a rubber hose off the air compressor (crimp the hose over the threads with a pair of pliers so it does not become a missle!) and see at what pressure it releases. Like I said before, some kind of dribble to the "on" state and some go off with a definite release point. There is a hysterisis to them that should be around 5 PSI or less... i.e.: it opens at 35 PSI and closes again at 30 or so.

I don't know of any "theory" as to why lowering the boiler would affect the steaming capabilities... it should not affect the gas flow to the burner... did doing so block the air holes at the venturi? Be sure the smokebox end of the flue is open to allow gases to escape, too. 

Are the steam delivery pipes clogged or kinked such as to restrict the flow of steam? The photo from earilier does not show a problem.

COM-ON ALL YOU RUBITES... whats the problem here? I am just guessing based on theory and surmised experience with other steam engines.

EDIT: wish I didn't have to edit my posts so often to correct silly typos that I don't see until I click Submit!


----------



## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

The symptoms sound to me like not enough pressure is being made due to a combination of factors. 

Add gaskets or sealants and tighten down all steam connections including pipes that may have been loosened.

It is normal for wispy slight leaking at the safety valve but not a steady blow. You may have foreign material in your safety valve seal that is preventing proper seating. If you have an ultrasonic bath, that could be used for a cleaning the safety.


Keep the throttle tightly closed until you have real pressure built-up - for most engines that means fire it hot until the safety blows, then start opening the throttle and using the steam pressure. If you cannot get the safety to blow you have too much leakage or inadequate heating. If you leak steam through the throttle while you heat up, this can show up as water in the exhaust and stack.



What about the sounds? A real boil sounds different. You should observe the smell of hot oil, more sound, and a hot boiler side. If you have an IR thermometer, the boiler side will get a lot hotter than 212F - you can use the temperature as a direct measure of the steam pressure. A droplet of water on the boiler side should sizzle and evaporate.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

The gasket from the kit needs to be coated with oil. There should be just a few bubbles on the seam of the valves to the cylinder until its hot. You can also put on a thin film of RTV on the gasket to provide a better seal but the gasket can rir during removal if you need to take it apart again. 

Make sure the safety blows before you try to run it, that way you know its at least 40lbs pressure. Do your self a favor and get a pressure gauge for it, much easier to know where you are at.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks for all the information folks, I'm going to follow your advise and see if I can't fix this thing. 
Bills been pumping me with empirical data off line, and his descriptions of his Ruby performance is nothing at all like mine. 
From what Jason and Ed are describing the valve is the likely candidate. I took the top off it and noticed that the O ring is not seating well with the contact surface. I'll try cleaning it, but it looks like that whole spring assembly is setting a little cock eyed in its case. Not sure, how, but I think I can fix it. 
Jason, the valves themselves are seated just fine. I flattened them a little and after installing them no noticeable leaks could be detected. The only leaks are on one cylinder and its on the seals to that back plate that the rod comes out of. I'm going to take it apart and try the dollar bill thing with it. 
Thanks again, I appreciate all the advise.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Rich where are the O Rings that are on the valve? There are no O rings on the piston valve it is just an interference fit. The seal on the rear cylinder cover is hi temp RTV on both sides of the forward plate. Careful not to have too much as there is an O Ring on the piston rod and you do not want RTV on there. Just a thin layer with a toothpick is all you need. Also be sure that all the surfaces are oil free but still have the rod oiled so when you resasemble it the rear covers slide back on. Just install one part at a time, 1st half, the O ring then the rear half. Tighten until they are snug, the rtv needs to dry to create the seal.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Jason, 
I was talking about the o ring on the safety valve (the pressure release valve). I'm still trying to figure out how to make that valve seat better since, I am loosing air/steam out of there quicker than you can say "a"


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Usually just a drop of oil on the o ring makes it seat fine. They are always going to weep as it depends on the spring pressure to seal the o ring.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Bill suggested changing the spring out for an ink pen spring?


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Make sure the spring is stainless steel of you are changing it..I think thoug youll need more pressure on the spring then a pen one.. They usually are pretty cheap. If the safety is a issue email Cliff at Accucraft he will send out another. There probally is nothing wrong with it though. From the factory they are dry and when 1st using they leak horribly. At least on all my locos till I put on a drop of oil.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Hey Hey, 
I tried oiling the ring. The same thing happened, she leaked steam through the safety like a tea kettle just as soon as there was steam in the boiler. 
Next I took the valve apart, inserted a brass washer between the spring and the E clip put it on my air hose and ran my compressor at 30 psi, then 40 psi then 60 psi and she started to open. 
I put the valve on the boiler, did my fire up procedure and lit the burner. One thing is, I'm doing this in my garage and its about 60 degrees F in there. Another thing is, on the very first tank of butane, the flame is weak no matter how far I back the fuel control knob out. Regardless, on previous attempts steam would eventually start coming out of the safety valve about 10 minutes in to the first burn but just a weak stream, with no force behind it. 
Then on the second burn, for some reason, it lights up and lights up hot. So about 3 minutes in to the second tank, the safety starts to hiss,but this time its louder and more forceful, not like before, with just a constant stream of weak steam coming out of it. 
But, I'm sort of paranoid about it testing at 60 psi on the compressor, so I don't wait for it to open up like it did on the compressor, instead I let some steam into the cylinders, and then check to see that a forceful stream of hot steam is coming out of the safety valve. It was, so I opened the throttle up and the wheels started spinning. Not for long though, the steam stopped coming out of the saftety valve, and the wheels stopped spinning. 
I'm convinced now, I gotta add a steam pressure gauge. The safety valve is just not reliable. I'm sure that I didn't build up enough pressure this time. At first I thought maybe I ran out of water, because she sure drools a lot, but after opening up the filler cap, I noticed that there is still plenty of water over the flue. I'll wait till I get a pressure gauge and run it again.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Put some WARM (NOT HOT!) water in the tank around the fuel tank. Butane cools significantly as it is withdrawn from the tank and that reduces the pressure it is supplying to the burner. Warm (NOT HOT, ya hear!) water around it will mitigate the cooling and keep pressure up. If you were to put HOT water around the tank it might swell up and burst! DO NOT USE "HOT" WATER... now, define "warm" and "HOT"... sorry I can't.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Not sure I understand. Do you mean put hot water around the fuel tank?


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Yes, that is what that tank around the fuel tank is for.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Oops. wait... bet the Ruby doesn't have a water bath for the fuel tank, does it?


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

In that case... if the fuel tank is on the cab foot plate, then it is "heated" by conduction from the boiler through the chassis. Try pouring warm water over the tank after the fire has been lit for a couple of minutes and notice that the fire will increase just like you opened the fuel valve 1/8 or 1/4 turn. 

It can make a BIG difference in operation. If you go back through the Live Steam forum and read lots of the entries you will find many testamonials as to the water bath for the various Butane fired locos... usually the bath is in the Tender, but Ruby doesn't have a tender. 

Even putting your fingers on the tank can heat it and make a noticeable difference in the fire. 


EDIT: sorry had to edit this again... I use a laptop and tend to eat crumbly things whilst perusing the internet and doing research and the keyboard often gets bits and pieces of them crumbs under the keys and sometimes they don't function when I am typing away with such abandon as I do on these forums. Then when I proofread before sending the missive I tend to miss the stuff that I know I typed, but didn't actually get registered... then again, sometimes my fingers have a mind of their own and type what they want to regard less of what my feeble mind is trying to make them do. Anyway, I fixed some typos up there.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

No, but it might be a good thing to have. The tank is really icy after filling it up.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

After you fill the tank you might wait for a few minutes for it to come back up to room temperature... actually you want it closer to 80 or 85 degrees (F) before you start drawing gas from it. Holding your fingers on it for a minute or two will speed that up. 

Yes, your relatively cold garage is having a detrimental effect on the fire.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I want to thank everyone "especially Bill" for all your advise and offers of parts and help. So far all the advise and suggestions have helped me not only get her steamed up and running on rollers, but also it has helped me to debug some of her issues and resolve them. 
After adjusting the safety valve to blow at 80 psi on the compressor I lit the burner under her and let her set till the valve opened and then opened the throttle. She ran for a good long time maybe 6 minutes in all before running out of steam and then another 4 minutes after letting her steam up again with the same fuel and water. 
Through your descriptions I was able to determine that the left cylinder is a big source of wasted pressure during the run. Unlike the the right (engineers side) cylinder which has infrequent bubbles of steam coming out around the cylinder plates, the left cylinder has a constant issue of water and steam all around that back plate. 
This weekend I took the left cylinder apart and the problem was apparent. 
The back plate is really two plates. They have a small recess for an o ring to sit in so that the rod seals as it passes through the back plate. There were no gaskets between these plates, not even a silicon gasket like the cylinder side of the plate had. 








*Note the arrow is pointing at the split between the back plates* 
I took a dollar bill, and cut out 2 gaskets. One for between the plates and one for where the plates mate with the cylinder. I put a little steam oil on both and reassembled the cylinder. 
I haven't gotten my steam pressure gauge from accucraft yet and I'm not running it till I do. I let you all know if that fixed the problem.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Rich there were no gaskets there as the seal is the o-ring identical to the factory accucraft ones. It is a 1/8" viton Oring sandwiched between the plates. a small bit of RTV would seal it up if there was an issue. Those plates were lapped on 600 BTW


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Jason, 
I haven't gotten the pressure gauge yet, but after reading your post I decided to give it a run to see if the gaskets affected the performance. That cylinder is now tight, and I ran her under steam for over 10 minutes straight before running out of steam and fuel. 
Do you think I should take the gaskets out? Or just leave them in place? The seal on that side is much better, now, it barely weeps like the other cylinder and the performance is still good.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

This is wild, I was cleaning up the engine after its 10 minute run and I noticed this: 








Notice the golden hue, compared to the original number plates color to the right of the smoke box front end. 
I expected the number plate to get a little toasted as I was only using floquil signal red and engine black to paint it. 
Even more odd is that the rest of the smoke box is still the same color. There is no indication of a fire in the smoke box. The other side of the door is clean with no soot or burn. The golden color is not uneven, its just as the photo shows it. Its as if the heat just turned the paint to gold. Man would Nicolas Flavell be envious, I didn't have to do anything but light a burner.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

You can leave them or remove them, the O ring seal has less pressure now with the gasket in there as it was designed to seal with just 5-8% compression just as the piston O ring. (Which is why these run so much smoother and on less pressure than the stock ones) If the piston rod gland starts to leak then you will have to take out the gasket and just use RTV instead as it will all squeeze oue but jst whats needed. 

O the smokebox door is from a high burner, keep the gas turned down so there is no howm or loud burn. Also get some insulation and insulate the smokebox door with a single layer stuck on. Should do the same for the actual smokebox too all the way around.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks for the info Jason. A couple of more questions: 
1. What makes good insulation that won't burn? 
2. What is a good heat resistive bonding agent? 
3. My fuel control seems to have only two positions. 
position (a) loud burning by barely opening the handle 
position (b) flame comes on then burns out just as quickly. 
I've tried adjusting it, but barely a hairs turn in any direction seems to have a huge effect on the flame either higher or none at all. 
Any suggestions on how this can be fixed? Someone suggested a spring to push the knob back. Is that the way to go?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

A possible source for insulating material would be the "Flame Gard" (tm) that is sold to protect from burning down your house when using a torch to sweat solder copper pipes between the floor joists or in wall cavities and such. It is a 9"x12" foil backed material about 1/2 inch thick that is in laminations of thinner material. The laminations could be easily separated for thinner sheets to use as insulation in the smokebox. Not cheap, but should be available at hardware or home improvement stores.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Ceramic insulation is best for insulating smokeboxes and other items from unwanted heat, it can be had from any auto parts store in the form of an exhaust repair kit. Otherwise places like McMaster-Carr carry it in various shapes, sizes and thicknesses. Here is an item number to get you started, all located on page 3422 of their catalog: 

93315K51


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

On the gas needle , unthread it and put on a drop of oil on the o ring on the shaft so you have finer control without the springeyness. JB Weld has held on my insulation on the doors so far. Nothing on the wrapper just placed in the smokebox. 

Try speaking with Cliff at Accucraft about getting a new small jet. You may have a large one by accident.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks Jason, everyone, 
I'll pick up the insulation and fix that fuel needle in the morning. I got a little antsy and moved on to the tank today. I had intended to do the cab, but I'm a little ambivalent about the cab because I can't pin point when the new cab was added and weather they stopped using that tender after adding it. 
I've also got a proportion problem with the boiler being so big. I needed to make a tank that is not so much to scale, as it is proportional. So I experiment a little with some card stock till I got a size that looked right. Then I moved on to making the brass tank sides. 








I rolled the largest curve on my Grizzly combo, brake, shear, roller and the lower curves I worked over a 1/2" steel rod. 








Its a little larger than the prototype, but it does make the smoke box look a little smaller by comparison, and sort of tricks the eye. Luckily the actual height of the engine is 10 feet. I've got a good 10" scale inches higher than the Ruby's cab. 
I used the ruby cab to orient the tank sides and to give me a better since of proportion even though it is about 12 scale inches shorter than the original cab on Kauila.


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Rich, 

I added a spring between the control knob and the tank on my Mimi to hold the setting on the gas control. I have made a new burner for mine and the problem was just as you described. Full on , or off. The gas valve setting was very critical. 

Another problem I had , I had to do a flush of the fuel tank on an Accucraft Shay because it wasn't running right for a friend. It would not maintain a steady flame. I removed it and removed all of the fittings and flushed it with hot soapy water and got some green gunk out of the tank. I then flushed it with alcohol twice and let it air dry. What ever was in the tank was gone, and the engine ran fine after this proceedure. I thiink the gunk would flow into the jet as the tank was filled because we cleaned the jet 3 times and it would start ok and then quit working after a period of time. 

Nice project you have going there, glad you got the cylinders . Looking forward to see how it comes out. 

Charles M SA#74


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Many times the fix for a touchy fuel valve is to put a very small amount of steam oil on the "O" ring.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Charles, 
When you say you "made a new burner" are you talking about the part that fits in to the flue? 
Bruce, 
I'm learning that a little steam oil goes a long ways to fixing many problems " align="absmiddle" border="0" /> I'll definitely try that before moving on to other solutions. 








This morning I made a little jig for drilling the filler and safety valve holes in the top of the tank. I made it a little longer so that I can use the ends to help re profile the domes footing. 








I test fitted the newly drilled tank top over the safety valve and the filler and test fitted an end piece to make sure I hadn't distorted the tank while I was drilling it. 
The jig seem to work fine and the only areas that need to be re worked are the slight irregularities around the holes I drilled. I'll use the jig again to tap those out smooth, but first, I decided to fit the domes starting with the sand dome. 















I eased the footing profile on the sand dome by running it on a grinding wheel a little and then used a file and finally some 80 grit sand paper laid on the drilling jig to get the profile sanded in to the final profile. 
The extended filler is sitting about 1/32" higher than it should be right now, but I think that's because I haven't secured it tightly to the tank yet. As you can see the dome is just hovering above the tank a little. There is a compression ring inside it that fits in the horizontal grove around the cap and keeps it from coming off. 
I won't need anything else to secure that sand dome but I will need to secure the steam domes plinth (?) to the tank, so that the dome can be stuck on. It screws on to the tank, but the dome is too far from the threads for that now, and I decided that the pressure fit is just fine since the plinth will be secured to the tank and the tank will be secured to the boiler.


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Rich, 

Yes I made a new burner assembly for the Mimi. I found that mine would whistle, and the flame would not want to burn on the burner tube. It would try and burn in the smokebox or not burn at all. I have included 2 photos for you to take a look at. It shows the comparison between the original burner with the external screen on it and my new burner. Paste the code into your browser to take you to the site. 

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/Charles_MM/CIMG0110Small.jpg ( Picture # 1 ) 

This first shot shows the start of my burner on the right . I had to start with small holes and tune the burner to my Mimi model. It took about 4 days for me to arrive at the right combination of hole size and the wire mesh inside. 

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd344/Charles_MM/CIMG0119Small.jpg ( Picture # 2 ) 

This shot shows the final construction of my burner up close. 
I have inserted 80 mesh brass wire screen inside of the burner tube . The holes in this shot are .078 inches in diameter. I have since made a total of 4 of these burners for my Accucraft models. They improve the steaming qualities and improve the run time. They use less gas for the same amount of heat produced. They also light up much easier. The flame will "pop" back onto the burner tube and stay put. I don't have a problem with the flame trying to burn in the smokebox. They are also so quiet you can not hear them burning !! The burner I put into my Accucraft 2 cylinder Shay stretched the run time to 40 minutes on one fill of gas . I have a Goodall valve to top up the water and this is the time I actually got out of it running at 25 lbs. on the pressure gauge. If you build one , I would recommend a Goodall valve to top up the water to prevent it running dry. 

If you need more information let me know. 

Charles M SA#74


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Charles, 
That is very interesting. I'm inserting these images for you. 
















The burners look great! As far as the Ruby running for 40 minutes, I think I might need a little more than just 80 ml of water. 
I notice that a quiet burner is preferred by everyone over the noisy ones. I can understand that if it is the wrong kind of noise, but I sort of like the sound the burner makes. It lets me know that its working and lets me know when it stops. 
I got my pressure gauge from Accucraft this afternoon, I stopped working on the tank, and I installed it. Following some of the suggestions by you folks, I turned the heater on in my garage, put hot water in the boiler and let it set there while I lubed and filled the oil and fuel reservoirs. As soon as the ambient temp reached 70 in the shop and 80 around the boiler, I fired up the burner. 
It took 6 minutes for the steam to build up to 50 lbs of pressure. The modified safety valve did not pop, but since I had 50 lbs of pressure, I let the throttle out. I had to warm up the cylinders and roll the wheels a little and then she took off, running under steam for 15 minutes with the burner roaring. 
As soon as she lost steam, the burner died. I was surprised to find that this time, unlike all the others, there was no water left in the boiler. (A little disturbing but I guess thats normal). 
For a long time, I have admired the life steam engines I have seen on this sight as a modeler. I was fascinated by the idea of using prototypical power, and inspired by the other members live steam projects and Ruby mods, but today, running the Ruby under steam for 15 minutes, even though she still hasn't been modified, I can now see why you folks are so dedicated to live steam. 
It is extremely calming and at the same time it keeps your interests going. I had to stop myself from adding more fuel and water and oil and running it again, and this was on a 4' dia circle with no layout, just a couple of pieces of plywood on some saw horses. 
I don't want to disparage electric trains. You can get really detailed with the electric trains with barely any impact to performance; convenience yes, performance no. But most of the joy I got out of Electric trains is building the models and modifying the locos. 
I gotta say, running live steam is a heck of a lot more fun to me than electric,,, not getting rid of my electric locos,,, no way; and its not like I'll run them any less (I hardly ever run them now) But I know that I'll be running this Ruby a whole lot more. I've never had that feeling with electric trains since I got my first set at 6. 
I'm even having second thoughts about adding RC to it because it really is kind of cool manual working the throttle and keeping an eye on the gauge. I even like the whole steaming up ritual. Now, all I got to do is find a way to afford a couple of more cool locomotives. A 4-4-0 and an K-28  Back to work on the Mods again tomorrow.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Oh boy! He has come unto the light!


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, 

If you look back in the archives, you'll find quite a few threads about fixing Ruby burners and associated problems. One key seems to be allowing airflow through the smokebox - when the steam oil globules opo out of the steam pipe, they can restrict the airflow and the burner goes out. If you haven't done it already, you might cut some holes in the bottom of the smokebox so that the oil can run out and air can flow in.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks Pete, I already did that after the first two tests. However, instead of cutting out a hole, I got rid of that plate the smoke box sits on and that made for nice drainage, it also dropped the boiler a little more. I just have to fabricate something that will fit on the outside now. 

I did some more work on the tank today. 








I riveted the front end piece and did the final fitting on the domes. I would have done more, but I had to make a new riveting tool. My old one (pictured below) couldn't handle 26 gauge brass, and in fact I stripped the 00-90 bolt that I was using on it. 








That needle nose pliers you see to the right is the old tool. As you can see from the styrene piece there, it works good for styrene, not at all on brass. I ended up filing down that common galvy nail and using the hammer punch method. Obviously that won't work on the tank section. Shame, the pliers were made specifically for doing curved surfaces








Anyways, always one to put my cart before my horse, I have come up with a final list of mods. 
I'm going for the look that will be closest to the 1906 as I have information to get. First I know a few things for certain. 

A new cab (the current cab was added before 1906 
The Radley & Hunter stack was replace with a diamond type stack before 1906 
The boiler supports were removed before 1906 
 A new head light was added before 1906 
 A tender was made from an old cane car and a water barrel before 1906 
 *Here's what I'm going to do to the Ruby kit.*

 Lower the boiler as much as possible but no less than an 1/8" above the frame. Done 
 Modify the cylinders to accentuate the valve chest. Done 
 Modify the smoke box pedistal to look more like Kauila's pedistal 
 Make a saddle tank that looks proportional correct in comparison to the oversize boiler Almost done 
 Extended the back a half inch 
 Make new pilot beams out of cedar or another light densely grained wood that is a closer match to the 1900 image of Kauila 
 Make a new cab out of wood 
 Modify the existing domes to fit the tank Done 
 Add insulation to the smoke box and the fuel tank 
 Consider silencing the burner and replacing the jet Jury is still out on that one 
 Consider converting to R.C. Jury is still out on that one too 
 Change out the smoke stack it came with for one like on the Ida Does anyone know where I can buy one


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Hey Richard, Your little loco is starting to look really nice. Great job of fabricating. I would advise against insulating the fuel tank, I tried that and it keeps it cold instead of warm. The run time was cut down to about 5 minutes before the fire would go out. I did insulate the steam lines and oiler with high temp fiberglass tape (3M from an electronics store) and that seems to help cut down the heat losses. I also insulated the boiler. It looks like you have the water tank filled with styrofoam, that should make a good insulator!


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Winn, 
I have been thinking about putting insulation in the water tank but will styrofoam take the heat? My boiler is well over 200 degrees at full steam (put a meat thermometer on it) Right now the braces are loose fitted on the tank and just holding it in place. There is no foam. 
If styrofoam works, then can I use the stuff in a can that is used for insulating doors and windows?


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard: Coming along great. That round bottom saddle tank is a nice touch. That will make the engine.

Take care, Bob


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, I thought it looked like you had styrofoam in there. I don't know the heat tolerance of the spray in stuff. It seems to me that it would be easy to stuff some regular fiberglass wall insulation into the tank.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Winn, 
I finished soldering the tank today and discovered that I will not be fixing the tank to the boiler as anticipated, so I will need to find some insulation that can stay inside the tank and be lifted off the boiler when the tank is removed. 
I wanted to just strap it to the boiler but I found out it is difficult getting the cab on and off with the tank fixed on the boiler so, I decided to just let it rest. With the sand dome clicked in place I can lift it a few inches in the air before it comes off. That should be plenty secure for a normal run.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*









Had to do the week-end bonding ritual with my life mate/wife but did manage to get a little bit done. 








Turned this filler cap on my drill press today. I did it free hand no template just an image Jeff Livingston sent me. Its not to scale. As it stands, the tank I chose to model is too small for the steam dome and sand dome that came with the kit for it to even look close to Kauila. Kauila shipped out with a 15" sand dome and a 16" steam dome. The Ruby domes are about 19" and 24" respectively. That meant that there was not enough room on the top of the tank for the in scale filler cap so I just did the best I could. 








I also took care of a nagging eye problem. When I got eye level to watch the Ruby run, I noticed that there is a gap under the boiler where a fire box should be! I form this from some brass. It ain't perfect, but its better than the hole  








Speaking of imperfection,,, I floated solder into the seams on the front of the tank and just tacked the rear thinking it wouldn't be seen with the cab on. However, one little crack did appear. I think bondo should work for this, but I think I will have to reinforce the back with a little bondo first to keep it from moving around. Next time I make a tank I want be so lazy, and I'll solder the whole thing.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Change out the smoke stack it came with for one like on the Ida Does anyone know where I can buy one


You can buy one from me, maybe. Here's what I got with my FWRR: 










Here's how it looks today: 










However, I have to get over the problem that these were limited run locos and therefore if I ever sell it, the buyer might want an original stack. Hmmm... 

Why don't you email Cliff at Accucraft and ask if he has either an Ida or an FWRR stack?


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Anyone have contact information on Cliff that they can email me?


----------



## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

you'll have to telephone. Never any luck with email. The telephone number is on accucraft's website.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks Bill, Jeff gave me cliff's email address. If I don't get a response in a couple of days, I'll give him a call. 
Pete, are you sure you wouldn't like to sell me that stack? I've been comparing it to the one in the Doc side pics of Kauila and the pics of the Ida. Your stack is more like that the stack on Kauila than the Ida's is. Comeon,,,, you don't won't to sell that fine model


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Oh,,, BTW,,, if anyone has a Ruby that is not running,,, but the boiler is okay, and the wheels are alright. I'm in the market for another one. Just drop me a line.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

*UPDATE* 
Just talked to Cliff at Accucraft. He found a used Ida stack and bell for me and is putting it in the mail today. Yesterday, I primed, finished sanded then painted the tank. 
The bell goes on the sand dome a certain way and I will have to solder the brackets right on to that, but the bracket height is dependent on the height of the bell so I haven't done anything more to the sand dome than drill the necessary holes for the brackets and cleaned the paint off around the joints where I will solder. 
I also did some lettering on Photo shop. Normally I would have Stan Cedarcliff do the decals, but I'm worried about the effect heat will have on them, so I'm going to paint them on with a home made stencil. 
I also got hold of some insulation for the tanks and the smoke box and re-painted the smoke box an engine gray with heat resistive paint. Images to come tomorrow or the day after.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*









I wet sanded the tank this morning. I printed out 6 sets of the O.R.&L. Co. Lettering on regular ink jet paper and tried a couple of different approaches for the stencils. I tested them out on my injured Connie, cab, which is destined to be replaced anyway. 
What I ended up doing was using 3M Blue masking tape. I taped it to a piece of delron that I use as a cutting board. I cut out one of the printed out letter sets about 1/8" narrower than the tape and a 1/4" shorter and used clear packing tape to tape it to the top of the blue tape. I then cut it out the same way I would wet transfer decals with #2 blade on my exacto-knife leaving just enough material in places to the centers staid in the O's and the other positive spaces. 
I carefully removed the packing tape and what was left of the lettering set from the top of the blue tape while it was still on the delron. 
Finally I carefully removed the blue tape from the delron and taped it on to the tank. 
My first coat of paint was the olive green, to take care of any tape bleeds. You can see the dark spots it left around the lettering where it did bleed. Its from the same batch of olive I used on the tank original, but wet sanding appears to have lighten the color a bit. 
I did several coats of the green till I was sure the stencil edges looked sealed. 
I brushed on yellow paint, in the direction I imagined the real calligrapher would have brushed. 
The process needs a little practice, but it seems to have turned out ok. I'll clean it up a little tomorrow, lightly sand some of the rough edges and then put a clear coat on top and polish it. 
After my first few runs of the Ruby without a tank I came to appreciate the enamel finishes. It is murder getting that steam oil off of flat surfaces, as you can tell by looking at my cylinders. I will have to repaint them and put a finish coat on them and polish that. 
Tomorrow, I'll install the installation in the smoke box.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

So, THAT is how you keep a stencil from bleeding under! THANKS!


----------



## plumbfishy (Nov 16, 2008)

Richard and All,

I'm very new to this hobby with the completion of my own Ruby kit last month. I was looking for ideas for cosmetic changes when I found this web site (duh) and feel like I just walked out of a cave! First let me say in regard to your project...BRAVO! and thanks for all the good ideas. At one point during this thread you were talking about trouble with the burner and raising steam. Although, at this point I have more questions than answers, I thought I might share some ideas on Ruby's performance. The fuel tank on mine always "over-fills" so that the first time the burner is lit, it is very sensitive. In fact, I think liquid butane enters the tube leading to the jet and the slowly turns to gas... you can close the valve and the burner takes several seconds to go out. This will stop after the second or third light up, after that the level of the flame will slowly increase during the course of the run as the tank warms. I find it is sensitive and needs some attention, but nothing will result from letting it roar away, except for a shorter run. When it is working properly it will make quite a bit of noise, but should be even and steady, if not, the first thing I would check is the jet opening. Its tiny and any amount of material will change the air-fuel mixture with a variety of results...none good. Usually it results in a low or unreliable flame, sometimes it wont stay back at the burner the flame will shoot from the smoke box door or it will "flame out". One source of this for me seems to be the cheaper butane I found at a little Asian market, not willing to give up the bargain, I've found a little fiber from a cigarette filter balled up in the union fitting seems to prevent this from happening (too much of that of course will have the same effect!) You can clean out the jet with a shot of gun-scrubber or the like, but don't use anything solid.One of the things I noticed in one of your pictures is that the inside of your smoke box seems to have some residue of burnt oil (or is it just a trick of the light?) after almost daily runs for the last month mine has heavy carbon build up on the somke box door only, the smoke box itself inside looks almost brand new. The other thing you mentioned was the safety valve, mine will start to show steam as soon as there is any at all, but when the boiler really gets up to temp, there is a change in the intensity...you can tell. I did go ahead and buy the pressure gauge, and adjustable pop-off valve and think it was well worth it. I did a little test and found that the point where the first valve began to change is around 35lbs.or so. I guess one advantage to the adjustable pop-off is that it wont seep steam like the other, saving it for the run. If it does open up however, it will dump a ton of steam before it closes (its really cool to watch).I set mine to pop at around 60psi and usually wait for the gauge to get to 40psi before I start the run. I do find a good deal of water will be expelled before everything warms up, but the more the engine wears in the less it takes to start. Now It will usually self start in one direction without help, but has to be turned down quickly after to keep it from running away. I never had a chance to test mine on a compressor...only an old bike pump, so it wasn't until I got the pressure gauge that I could really fine tune it. By the way tuning, a steam engine with steam is a painful business! I really got a lot from the "Hottman" article also, you need to check that out. At the end of a run on the bench with no load the engine will tick over at a good clip even after the pressure gauge is back on the pin.. so somewhere around 5lbs or so should be enough to spin the wheels. I have found that it seeps a bit from the valve and reversing pistons, but not much, it also leaks from both rear cylinder covers, even so I'm always amazed at how strong that little this is. Honestly, at this scale I dont think it has much real impact on it power. Again, let me say how impressed I am with your Ruby, I hope mine turnes out half as well. When she is ready for the track again, give her a pressure gauge, and good jet cleaning and the "Hottman" tune-up,I'll bet she knocks your socks off! 


I look forward to your next installment!
Kurt


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Kurt, 
Thanks for the info. So I can use the gun cleaning fluid from my gun cleaning kit to clean that jet with no problems? 
One other thing I've found. The cold shop really had an effect on the fuel control and performance. Once I got the ambient temp up to 70 degrees it was like running a whole different loco. 
Yes, that is ash in the smoke box not a camera thing. I'm not real sure how that happened, as I was careful that the fire was on the burner in the flue and not in the smoke box. I'm wondering if holding the matches right inside the smoke box might have done it? Also, I'm wondering if maybe some of the steam oil might have ignited in there while she was running around the track and I just didn't see it. 
My problem now is that I seem to be running out of water before fuel. On my last two runs, when I got everything down, I noticed that she would just stop steaming altogether and then shortly after the burner would go out. When I shut everything down and got ready to add water and fuel I tried dumping the remainder of the water out to see how much was actually used. Nothing came out and that sort of worries me a little. 
Just to reiterate, I am filling the boiler with hot water till its full. Letting it set for 3 to four minutes to heat up the flue and then taking 30ml out of the boiler, putting the cap on and lighting the burner. She steamed up in about 6 minutes or a little less, ran for over 12 min or so and stopped steaming and then the fuel went out. 
I only ran her at full throttle a couple of times to get her started, but she goes too fast to do a 4 ft circle at full throttle so I did her at a very slow pace.


----------



## plumbfishy (Nov 16, 2008)

Richard,

Sorry, gun scrubber is a solvent-in-a-spray can product like carb. or contact cleaner. It will dissolve anything in the jet and leave no residue behind. It won't hurt the brass, but I would not trust it on your new paint. I suppose WD-40 would work but I wonder about the residue, plain old compressed air would do the job as well I'm sure. With the gun scrubber I direct the little straw into the back of the jet, if it is really bad the fluid will just drip out, or a partial blockage will cause the fluid to atomize and come out in spray rather than a stream ( I think this is when the flame would get wild or erattic). When the jet is clear it comes out in a clean straight stream several feet long. You brought up the water issue... Mine will always run out of water first, bench or track, slow or fast, load or none, it just doesn't seem to matter. Unless I have to shut off the burner and then re-steam for some reason it will run out of water first. I'm sure you noticed the amounts quoted in the destruction manuel don't quite add up. It says a properly filled boiler will have 80mil. of water, or when in doubt, fill it and remove 30mil. so it would seem the boiler would take 110mil to fill. I have found 128mil. is closer to the actual amount, so filling and removing 30mil. would leave me with 18mil. extra. Still it runs dry. I tried removing less, 20mil seems to be OK on the bench, but on the track the first move forward causes it to gulp water and lock solid. So, it just seems to be the nature of the beast. I talked to a very helpful and knowledgeable person at accucraft, who said that this is something that has been coming up more often lately, but since the tank and burner had not been changed, he couldn't be sure exactly why. He did however assure me that the boiler is very well built (overbuilt) and that although running a boiler dry is not recommended, it would take quite a while to cause any damage. That would most likely come in the form of a warped flue. I just have resigned myself to it and keep an eye on the pressure gauge, when all else is running smooth and it just starts to drop pressure of no apparent reason, it is just about dry. I look forward to you next installment.


Kurt


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Kurt, Rich, 
Could it be that Accucraft has changed the size of the jet ? That is gone to a smaller jet size which would burn less gas. I have a Mimi with the 1/2 inch cylinders and it will run 18 minutes and still have water left in the boiler. On my Edrig and Mimi I time the runs from the first start of the burner. 6 to 8 minutes to raise steam and then a maximum of 15 minutes if I don't add water through the Goodall Valve . I have not had a problem with them running out of water. I usually have a least 30 milliters of water left after a cool down. I use a stop watch to time my runs . I find it helps keep track of the time if there are people around and you are in on part of the conversation. 

Charles M SA # 74


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Charles, 
If you are going to count the warm up period then I guess my run time is around 18 minutes too. 
Maybe my logic is messed up, but it would seem to me that a wider jet using more fuel would use that fuel up a lot quicker than a smaller jet using less fuel, and there fore the more fuel you burn the shorter the burn time and since the water is essentially there in the form of steam being released for the same period of time you should use less of it on a jet with a larger aperture than with a smaller one.


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Rich, 
I think we have two different variables working here. We have the gas control and how hot the fire can be, and the throttle which controls how fast the engine runs or doesn't. If you turn the flame down , and run the engine at a lower presssure settting you will extend the burn time. However the water in the boiler is still the controlling factor in how far the engine will run. When the steam supply is exhausted the engine will stop whether or not the engine is out of gas. My thinking ( right or wrong ) is that the gas nozzle is running leaner and is stretching out your burn time . I also know that my Mimi had about 5 hours run time on blocks before I took it out to run on rails after fitting the new cylinders. It seemed to run better after the breakin period and would self start using R/C control. It could be that after a run in period for your engine you will find that it will extend the run time and still have water left over. 
All of the above is just an opinion and may not hold water ( or Steam ) . Good luck on your project , looks good , waiting to see how it all comes out. 

Charles M SA # 74


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

He found a used Ida stack and bell for me 

Great. I can stop feeling guilty about hanging on to mine! 

I seem to be running out of water before fuel 

I think all Accucraft locos do this. 

Mine has a Goodall valve in the cab instead of the filler cap, and I pump in some water after pressure comes up, and add some more after 10 mins. 

It is murder getting that steam oil off of flat surfaces, 

Home Depot (etc.) sell a 'Simple Green Extreme' cleaner, which claims it was invented for the aerospace folk. It works - just spray your loco, leave it a few seconds, and hose it off. [There's a thread here somewhere from Larry (?) about a hose-down station he built for post-run clean-up.] I don't particularly recommend the hose, but I've has success with that stuff spraying the areas that are grungiest, putting them under the tap and running water over them. It's easier to hold a Ruby under a tap than a K-36! 

plain old compressed air would do the job 

It's often suggested that the butane can pressure will do the job. Just point it into the jet and give it a squirt (outdoors, preferably.) 

inside of your smoke box seems to have some residue of burnt oil 

Yep, that's almost certainly burnt steam oil. Accucraft errs on the side of caution and allows far too much oil into the steam pipe. [The new 4-4-0 has a metering valve.] The emulsified oil bubbles out of the chuff pipe (I assume you put yours back, Richard?) The oil globules also aeem to block the airflow in the stack and put the fire out - there's threads in here about that too!


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Pete, 
I not going to let you off that easy,,, yours is still a better match  
The chuff pipe is out while I am affecting some modifications. I treat all the parts like an American Express Card, "I don't steam up without them",,, I'm too green to make assumptions about what can be left off or needs to be on as far as the boiler, the cylinders and the valves are concerned. 
I got my Ida stack today. It needed a lot of cleaning up and a new paint job. I also got the bell, but I'm eager to get to Marks Steam up Sat and I'm just doing the minimum to put her back in running order and test run her before I get to Marks.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Gettin Ready for Saturday 








I painted the stock Ruby cab brown so that it wouldn't look too bad, but its just a temporary cab. The Pilot beam and rear beam are also just on temporarily to I can run her on Marks layout tomorrow without being too embarrassed about her appearance. 
Before putting everything back together I decided I should tune her up. I figured that at 1:20.43 scale time, I had already run her 24 hours straight, so I checked the timing, and the valve adjustments and put her on compressed air. 
I was surprised to find out that she ran better in reverse, than she did in forward. I tried tinkering around with the valve adjustments, but nothing seem to work. I noticed that as she moved in forward, the cylinders were actually moving on the frame front to back. Something was loose. It turned out to be the lower platform member. I tightened it up and eliminated the movement, but forward, though better, was still not good. I tinkered with the valves again. I assumed that since the cylinders were actually moving around during the adjustment they might be off. They weren't and so I reversed the timing. She now runs great in forward. Except, the Johnston bar looks like its going in reverse. 
I but the boiler, the oiler, the fuel tank all back on the chassis and prepared to try her under steam. 
I cleaned out the fuel tank a week ago and on Jason's advise I put a little steam oil on the o ring on the throttle control needle. 
Someone else suggested cleaning out the jet. I did, but it looked pretty clean to me. Not trusting my compressor to deliver a sterile stream of air I used the fuel tank as someone else suggested. 
Boy, did that maintenance show an improvement. The throttle is still touchy, but at least I can back it off without loosing the flame now. 
I also noticed that the sound of the flame changed considerably. Instead of this staticy low roar, it was a clear roar,,, and HOT!!, The flame popped into the flue alright, but it also shot out of the flue like a torch. I backed of a gnats eyelash and watched at the torch flame disappeared into the flue. 
Thanks for the tips folks. 
With the tune up and the fixes to the tank, she ran for 26 minutes from start to finish. She had steam within the first 5 minutes and to my amazement ran for 21 minutes with a boiler pressure of 50 - 60 psi. 








I had an unpainted version of Sherman in the cab the whole time to see if the temperature would affect him. I put a meat thermometer in there to keep him company. The cabin temp never exceed 110 F and Sherman don't look bad in the cab, but he is sort of any the way when I want to work the Forward and reverse. 








*So much for heat resistive paint* 
I sprayed the smoke box with this darker heat resistive paint in the hopes that I wouldn't have to insulate the smoke box. I insulated the door, but with all the steam oil that gets in there, I didn't want to insulate the smoke box because it would be too hard to clean up. 
Well, about 6 minutes into the test run, I noticed the steam oil caught fire in the smoke box. I opened the door with a kevlar gloved hand and as you can see from the pick above, some of that heat resistive paint came off as well. 
I put the fire out with a gentle puff of air and lowered the fuel again. This seem to work. I'm not going to worry about the paint for tomorrow. There are so many mistakes on this engine already, its the least of my problems. 








I did some work on the bell stand in between paint coats on the cab.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I learned a lot at Mark's Holiday steam up yesterday, and met a lot of good people. What I learned is; as much fun as it is to be hands on when you are going in 4 ft circle it is not on a bigger layout like Marks. That is due mainly to the fact that my Ruby, throttle was hard to reach when navigating bushes and people. I am definately installing R.C., but with a twist. I want to try to come up with a modular design that can be removed when I'm on a layout that is easier to reach the controls. My back can't take bending over like it use to /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif 
As I watch her going around the track I also realized that I cann't settle for those domes being so large. Next to the K28s and 4-4-0s those domes looked massive. I'm going to do another tank and this time, I'm going to modify the stand dome to look like the steam dome and turn it to make it closer to 16" instead of 19". 
I'm going to fabricate a sand dome from some 27/32" brass rod I have and get it as close as I can to 15". 
I'm also going to move the fuel tank to the tender I am making. 

[*]Scratch build a johnston bar that looks more prototypical 
[*]Purchase a 1/2" steam pressure gauge 
[*]See if I can't design and build a more prototypical throttle 
[*] fabricate a cover for the back head that will look more like the actual back head on Kauila (if I succeed in doing he above) 
[*]Make the cab permanently mounted to the deck with a removable roof 
[*]Find some ingenious way to install a Goodal valve in the saddle tank 
[*] See if I can't create a water bath in the tender to mount the fuel tank in 
[*]Redesign the FnR linkage so that it runs in the center of the cab and I can put leaf springs on the frames 
[*] Design a whistle that has a resonator that will fit into the top of the steam dome in one unit. 
[/list] 
I'm glad I got a chance to attend Mark's steam up before I got too far along on the Ruby modifications. I saw a lot of beautiful models there that did not sacrifice detail and the performance was superb. 
I also got a real close look at all the engines I have been admiring for so long. 
I have a recommendation to anyone thinking about doing live steam for the first time like me; Find a group of people that live near you who have been doing live steam for a while. Go to their steam ups and watch and learn and be inspired


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, 

I was very impressed by your Ruby yesterday - excellent work and I can't wait to see the finished product. For the RC install you should talk with Seth - he did one of the nicest Ruby RC installs I've ever seen. Let me know if you need his number. Eric is the man to talk with regarding pluming/hiding goodal valves, water baths, etc. I believe the 2 of you spent some time reviewing his modified Conrad. Of the tasks listed above, the whistle will be your biggest challenge as the ruby boiler is very small and will make operating a whistle very difficult. 

Keep up the excellent work! 
Mark


----------



## Agra (Jan 15, 2008)

Richard,
I have been enjoying your work on your new coach, your newest figures, and your Ruby bash for some time now. You are a very creative modeller, I'm really impressed.

I like the list you made in your last post, of things to do to make the Ruby more like the prototype loco. It will be fun to see your progress on these projects, while I'm "warming up" to start making things again myself. My new workshop is a project for the new year, once finished, I'll have the time (and space) to do some model making. 




Thanks, and keep up the good work,
Regards, 

André,
Norway


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks Andre, 
Good luck on your new shop. As it is, I'm working in half of my Garage and wishing I had a shop again! 
UPDATE 
So far, I've turned a new steam dome (- the plinth) 
A new sand domed 
Hammered out some reflectors for the head light 
And sized the Brass for a new tank. 
I feel a less urgent need to be hasty now that I'm the new owner of an Accucraft 4-4-0. I now have another engine to steam up while I make modifications to the Ruby. I no longer need to worry about getting her ready to run in between modifications. 
The new 4-4-0 is for the DRGW road and will need some cosmetic changes like a Hunter Radley Stack and some new lettering, but I can worry about that after I've finished Kauila. 
I'll show some pics of the domes when I get time to take them.


----------



## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 12/14/2008 12:28 PM

[*] Design a whistle that has a resonator that will fit into the top of the steam dome in one unit. 
[/list] 

You could fit a much bigger resonator inside the saddle tank rather than trying to squeeze it into the dome. You would just need a longer pipe connecting the resonator and the whistle aperture, running up through the dome.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, 
Thanks, I'm finding that out too. I have made two whisles but the smaller ones that fit in the dome sound tiny. I was thinking the next step would be the saddle tank.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*









In the foreground you can see the reflectors that I have made for the headlight. I still need to shape and drill the bulb holder. 
Behind those are the new domes and the old sand dome. Behind them is the tank with the HUGE steam dome. You can see the difference right away in proportions. 
I made the upper part of the steam dome from a 27/32 brass rod I had in my brass junk box. The plinth (base of the dome) is an old garden hose connector. 
The sand dome is a combination of an orphaned drawer pull and a copper reducer. 
I turned everything on my drill press except the reducer. It came looking just the way it does. 
I need to solder all the parts together, then I will move on to the tank and then cut the bases. I'll need to turn another water cap, then I need to chrome plate the reflectors.


----------



## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

RKapuaala,here is a Whistle I made for a Ruby http://www.weltykswhistles.com/Videos/Ruby.movWhistle it work well 
Regards Bob


----------



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Bob,

Your link doesn't seem to work. And a search doesn't turn up any web pages for you.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks Bob, but I don't run quicktime on my computer because it wants to be a tsr and will not let me run it when I need it.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 12/20/2008 12:12 PM
Thanks Bob, but I don't run quicktime on my computer because it wants to be a tsr and will not let me run it when I need it.



At first I thought you had mad a typo and misspelled "Tsar" (as in, the Russian king, sometimes spelled Czar), but then I realized you (may have) meant "Terminate and Stay Resident", which is one of the irritating aspects of QuickTime.

I run a couple of registry monitors and every time I run into a web site that uses QuirkTime I get multiple warnings that someone is attempting to alter my startup lists (adding itself the list of programs that run as soon as the computer is started... even if you have no intention of ever using that program ever again), an activity usually associated with viruses and keylogger software designed to steal some web personal identification information.

QuickTime IS a legitimate program and is NOT a "baddy" software, but it is quite overbearing, egotistical and downright annoying in that if you don't let it do its thing it will cause your computer to hang and often requires a complete reboot to get out of it. Once it is done, you can go back and alter the Registry to remove its TSR programs.

It is not so bad if the web site allows you to decide that you want to view its video content by clicking on a "RUN" button or some such (especially with appropriate warning that it is a QuackTime application), but I am seeing more and more sites that start to play the video upon opening the site. Presently, on my system, it then also wants to do an update immediately and that also causes all kinds of problems as it has to do a reboot after the update and it doesn't even give me time to close other windows (especially IE tabs to other web sites I am logged into).

All in all, the world would be a better place if the authors of that kind of DICTATOR-istic software were smacked up the side of the head with a live Mackerel and forced to sit in the corner with the fish in their shorts until long after the poor fish is dead and rotted to fertilizer. But then, the same thing should happen to some Auto Company, Banking, and Wall Street executives, as well as a few Congresspersons, but we all know that will never happen either.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I think it's just easier for some folks to let politicians and quicktime do what ever they want. I can't do anything to stop the politico from bailing out those irresponsible and inefficient creeps. I can't stop the creeps from turning around and using that money to reward some of their worst performers under the guise of a retention bonus (RETENTION my A,,, get rid of them), but at least I can choose not to install QT


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Wow, 
My 4-4-0 arrived today. Huge box. Came with this metal carrier. I attached the necessary parts and ran her. What a difference in performance. Right out of the box and she runs great and steams up fast. Now that I have this engine, I will be able to focus on the Ruby without putting her together and taking her apart every time I want to run her. 
Since I didn't get the black, unlettered one, I've got a few modifications to do to the 4-4-0 after I finish the Ruby. 
I will replace the cab with a more modern cab. Do the running boards in wood. Modify the front pilot platform and cow catcher. Put a cowled stack on her and longer smoke box. 
But the hardest part is going to be removing the lettering from the tender!


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Oh,,, Mele Kalikimaka kekahi mau `o hoa aloha apau!


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 12/23/2008 10:39 PM
Oh,,, Mele Kalikimaka kekahi mau `o hoa aloha apau!


I was gonna say "Same to ya, fella!" but now you have edited it and I gotta go figure it out again.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I dunno what "kekahi" means or the " 'o" but I think the same sentiment was expressed as before...so...

The same to ya, fella! And your family and friends too... and your little dog, too!


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Whoops typo, I had a little to much egg nog mixed with okolehao. Mele Kalikimaka ko`u hoa aloha apau. 
Merry Xmas to all my friends here


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Whoa and woe... a little too much egg of the ol' nog, huh? 

Please note that putting okolehao in it is gonna upset the ol' spacial recognition sequencer and cause a need for your hoa aloha apau to handle the Ka'a.


and your little dog, too. (But I don't know about barbcueing it.)


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

No drink and drive yeah!


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*









O.k. Finally got some time to work on the Ruby today. What with the holidays and me running off to run the 4-4-0 at Chris's I hardly did anything to her. I did manage to remove the original smokebox and replace it with a copper pipe that scales out to 30" only 6" bigger than the original smoke box. I also moved the boiler back about 1/4" so that the domes line up better over the axles. This lowered the boiler a little more so that it now sits at just about 7/16" above the chassis a hole 1/4" lower than the original model. 








I also reduced the width of the grove for the chuff pipe and steam pipe so that I can make a narrower smoke box pedestal for her. 








To break the monotony of working on the smoke box, I built a new pilot beam. Anyone know where I can find a link and pin coupler like the one pictured below? 








I'll need to raise is to standard height and mount it in a dadoo on top of the beam. BTW, I've already tried Ozark Miniatures and they don't have it.


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Looking good Richard. Not sure who stocks a coupler like that - have you considered casting it? 

-Mark


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I may just have to do that, Mark /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif 








Dropped my son off at the airport this morning (back to school) then when I got home, I made the new tank cut the profile on the dome plinths and made a mock up of the cab sides. 
As soon as I get some time, I'll solder the domes on and make a hinge for the filler cap. I've decided not to put a goodal valve in since that involves adding a sight glass and I'm not up to that task. 
I tried cutting the front plate for the smoke box and discovered two disappointing things. 
1. I need a new circle cutter that will cut smaller than an inch and three quarters 
2. 1 1/2" is the inside dimension of the new smokebox. I keep forgetting pipes are measured by inside dims not outside. That makes my smokebox scale out to 33 inches not 30 inches /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


----------



## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Looking good, Richard! Thanks for posting the progress photos. When you're done, I'd like to include a "beauty shot" on my Ruby modifications page, if you'll permit it.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Vance, 
It would be an honor


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, 
I doubt that anyone would notice the discrepancy in the smoke box dia. However if you want 1 1/2 in. get tubing rather than pipe, or you might be able to find a pipe fitting the right dia. 

You don't really need a sight glass in order to use a Goodall valve. Just fill the loco for a normal run and measure the amount of water that takes. Make a timed or measured distance run, then measure the remaining water. Divide the water used by the time or distance to get a mL per minute or mL per distance used. Then if you keep track of the time or distance you will know about how much water to add. Example: My Bogie uses about 45 mL per circuit of my main line so I know I have to add that much after each time around. I have my squirt bottle marked in 50 mL increments so I can tell about how much I'm pumping in to the boiler. You can't hurt it, if you completely fill the boiler, the pump will just stop working and you will squirt a lot of water out the stack. 

I use a band saw and disc sander to make round plates for smoke box doors etc.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Thanks Winn, 
Mark just cut me a nice flange and a door on his Taig lathe today while Joel and I made the last run on his Xmas setup. As soon as I get all the mounting screw and hinge holes bored, I'll take a picture of it and post it.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*









Finished this today. 








Opens pretty smoothly and is a close match for the original. I'll put a latch on later this evening. I decided to make it open by turning the nut on the door.


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Hey Richard, 

Looking good. The hinge is particularly nice. Must have taken some time....I can't believe you used the scrap I cut out from the center for a back plate on the door! Let me know the dimensions and I'll turn you one with out all the chamfer marks. Then again, you ordered a Taig, so perhaps that could be your first project! 

-Mark


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Mark, 
Thanks for the offer. I think I'll leave it as is. I put it there as a heat shield. I'm hoping that this will keep the paint on the door from cooking like my other one did, so I put clay in between. After talking with Joel about the heat in the smoke box causing the solder on his number plate to come off, I also decided to make everything a mechanical connection too. 
The Taig just shipped yesterday, so it should be here any day now.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Too bad I didnt know you were looking for a Taig, my friend is going to sell his. He has the lathe, milling attachment, extra tooling, center rest and a bunch of other stuff. Its all going as a package though. I need to get it all out and photograph it to throw up on ebay or here and Chaski


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

You might want to contact joel. Does it have variable speed?


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Taigs sold.....It ad 6 speeds via pulleys, you could also add a 2nd pulley for slower speeds or higher even


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Jason, 
Did Joel snag it?


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*









Test fitted some of the turnings I made with my new lathe. 








Even though the headlight isn't exactly like the one I want to model, I was happy with the reflector. Normal, I form the reflector from annealed sheet brass using my makeshift dapping blocks, this one was cut still on the lathe using a router bit. I also polished it right on the lathe, now all that is left is to chrome it and assemble it. 








I also turned a whistle, a pop valve and a makeshift globe valve for the top of the steam dome. I'm not having much luck with my working whistle and have decided to abandon it and settle for routing the steam from the pressure release valve through the pop valve. 
Anyway, I'm still playing around with my new toy, but its time to get back to some serious work on the Ruby.


----------



## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I like the idea of using a router bit in the lathe. I will defiantly file that idea away for later use. 
Joel


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Make sure you're not using it in the headstock! This lathe was in the drilling chuck on the tailstock, and I'm not sure all router bits would work equal as well. This was a rounded plunge bit.


----------



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

*I have an old machinist friend that routinely used tungsten carbide router blades/bits in his metal working - drill press, lathe, and milling machine.*


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, 

Nice work, and glad to see you are finding the Taig useful. I've been using HSS bits, but am about to pick up some carbide insert turning tools - too much trouble to keep standard profile tools sharp - http://www.grizzly.com/products/G5639. I'll still grind HSS for special tools. 

Oh, and Taig sells a collet set that will hold small router bits in the head stock. You can also get an arbor to hold a drill chuck on the head. When used with the milling attachment it makes a great precision drill and is OK for very limited (and very small) mill operations.


----------



## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I have an old machinist friend that routinely used tungsten carbide router blades/bits in his metal working - drill press, lathe, and milling machine.

Bruce, 
That wouldn't be someone we both know as OF would it? 
Noel


----------



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

*Noel,*

*No it's not OF that I was referring to but he is a great second place. The person I was referring to taught me all the skills I have. He once took a needle and chucked it in his large lathe, cut it in half, bored it out. threaded the ends and stored a pin inside it. His most common comment was that something was "dead nuts on" which meant it was less than .00005 within tolerance. And he did this with only one working hand and unable to stand in front of his machines. I have a couple of machines that he improved to work easier than designed by the manufacturer. His large table saw ran on a 1/4" wide x 1/16" thick flat belt. I could go on and on but unfortunately I don't live close anymore and he has had to move to a nursing home now.* 
*Ruby content is that he enjoyed seeing what I had crudly done to my Ruby before I sold it.*


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I milled up and detailed my cab sides today. They are being temporarily held together with brads so I can get a better idea of how it will look.









The brads are predrilled close to the locations they are on the prototype. The sides are an 1/8" thick so I had to gentle scribe the detail on the inside. 
I put the old Ruby roof on to give everyone a since of the proportion and size of the new cab.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Richard, 

Fantastic work! You really have the spirit of #6. 

And in addition to the beautiful cab, I really like the way you did the reflector. 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 01/23/2009 6:20 PM
Jason, 
Did Joel snag it?


Yes, Joel is the new owner...Should be to him on Tuesday.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Lucky bugger! Jason, keep me in mind if you run across some Ruby parts that you are getting rid of,,, preferably boilers, drivers and cylinders


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Looking good Richard. BTW - I didn't know prototypes used modeling clay to hold headlamps


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks, Mark,,, yep, its a little known fact that OR&L used modeling clay not just for headlights stands but many other applications 








I finally started on the cab deck today. I've been ambivalent about doing it since the original deck was 2x8 decking bolted to steel joists that were attached to the chassis.
Even though it would have been possible and accurate to do it the same way in 1:20.32 scale I don't think it would have been practical. For one I doubt that Kauila was picked up by its pilot beam and cab deck very often; something I will be doing often to move it from its carrier to the tracks or from one track to another. For another, I don't think the scale lumber could hold up to the shear pressures exerted by the forward and reverse gear that will need to be mounted to the engineers side.
In view of my current economic crisis (bought too many toys this month) and a few interesting threads I read in the modeling forum, I elected to use 22 gauge weldable steel for the deck.
A 8 x 18 inch sheet of that costs 4.95 at OSH,,, I whole heck of a lot cheaper than a piece of brass that size.
As indicated in that thread, the steel is very easy to work,,, surprisingly enough,,, its as easy as brass. I haven't soldered it yet, but I will. One thing is certain, it will wear more prototypically than brass.









Here you see it with the oiler mounted and a slot cut for the Johnston bar. I also bent the ends and threaded some screws in the same location they can be found on the prototype.
It looks pretty good, when I put the cab on, but I wish there was a way to make the oiler look more like a real oiler;









I could try to disguise my new regner throttle as an oiler;









Of course, I could probably turn one too. It seems like you don't really need that much oil for as long as it runs. The oiler is as big as the oiler on my 4-4-0 which runs twice as long.
I'm thinking even without a meter I could get away with half the volume of oil.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Hey Rich what valve did you end up ordering?? Looks like maybe a Regner?


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep,
I got the regner from Ken.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

PROGRESS?








Some times I take 1 step forward for every two steps I take back. In the fore ground of the image above is my 3rd and final water tank.
I test fitted the smoke box pedestal and the it appears to fit good. Unfortunately I'm not going to have an exact scale repro of the pedestal because of the limitations of available space, but it will be close.
As you can see, I also changed the stack. I turned the fluted top and bottom on my lath and tapped out the bottom so that it could be screwed to the smoke box the same as the Ida stack.

Henner gave me a good idea so I made the stack detachable from its base, its just a pressure fit. That way if it should take a tumble the stack won't break off.









I stained and sealed the cab so that it would look like a well maintained 10 year old koa cab. 
I'm still not sure the laminated cab is going to hold up well to heat and steam. No matter though, I can always make another one out of solid wood.
After I solder the pedestal together and do the final fit to the smoke box, I will move on to making the throttle and the exterior controled forward and reverse lever.
I'm making both the throttle and the reverse/forward lever from scratch. The valves I've tried don't look like and I got a copy of some plans from Kozo's book that Mark gave me that show a more realistic throttle controller. I'll modify the design of it somewhat to work on my Ruby. 

I've also decided to make my own truer to scale displacement oiler that will fit on the back head the same as the original. 

I'm currently waiting on some fittings before I start on either of those, so in the mean time I will be attaching the leaf springs to the chasis, painting the boiler and turning another Goodall valve that will fit under the water tank the way I want it to fit.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

HELP! 
A lots been happening around my house lately, and I don't have as much time as I'd like to mess around with this project. But I did take some time yesterday evening to modify my plumbing, by using some of the fittings I got from Coles Power Models. When I went to test it on Air the performance in forward motion was poor, but great in reverse (KEEP IN MIND I'VE REVERSED THE TIMING AND PERFORMED THE HOTMAN tuneups) Even when I switched the timing back to original factory settings, it ran better in reverse than it did in forward. 
This is very baffling. I tried the hotman tune ups and that changes nothing. Its just wierd that it runs so well in Reverse no matter what the timing is set up as.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

OH, and yes, I did remove the new plumbing and hooked up air directly to the steam intake.


----------



## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Make shure you remove the stock 2mm hexbolts which hold the engine mount to the frame and replace them with 2.5mm (4x) socket head screws/otherwise your engine assembly will waddle(ask me how i know) (part 4X no 15/page 11 ruby kit manual) 
Manfred Diel


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This is such a cool project! I have a Ruby and though my wife thinks it's very "cute" as is it's marked for the Kitbash bench

Don't know about your running issues--I'm still figuring out how to run mine


----------



## Tenn Steam (Jan 3, 2008)

Check the forward/reverse valve mounted between the steam chests. Push the linkage back and forth while under air in forward. The linkage bends easily.
Good luck
Bob


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Manfred, 
Although its not waddling back and forth, I did notice that there is a recess on the chassis where the original pedestal used to fit. My new pedestal fits on top of that platform. I'll check to make sure that the clearances are the same and test it again. 
BTW, I did notice them waddling back and forth the first time I assembled the thing and took corrective measures. I used longer screws and nuts to secure it down. 
Bob, 
The linkage is free and hand held at this point because I am working on changing reverse and forward control to outside access since the new cab is sort of hard to get to things.


----------



## abby (Jan 9, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

I have been enjoying this thread but having read this, well sorry to be a bore but as no-one else has commented I feel I must question this statement , 

*"The person I was referring to taught me all the skills I have. He once took a needle and chucked it in his large lathe, cut it in half, bored it out. threaded the ends and stored a pin inside it. His most common comment was that something was "dead nuts on" which meant it was less than .00005 within tolerance."* 

Whilst I don't doubt that this gentleman was skilled I don't understand how something can be less than 0.00005 within tolerance. 
This suggests that the tolerance was plus or minus 0.0001, i.e. plus or minus 1 tenth of a thou. 
What could he possibly be turning that would require such a tolerance ? perhaps someone could enlighten me but I do not know of a lathe on this planet that could turn to this precision. 
Do you really expect us to believe that this fine old man had measuring equipment that could read to an accuracy of less than one tenth of a thou? perhaps you have placed the decimal point incorrectly , but simple deduction suggests that he didn't teach you measuring skills. 
As for the needle story, you neglect to say how big the diameter of the needle was. 
It was obviously bigger than the head of the pin, which are normally large enough to grip in the fingers. 
If he threaded both ends then he must have used a tap and die because it would not be possible to select change wheels to cut such a fine thread on a large lathe even if you could grind a tool to such a small thread profile . 
A 5/8" drill chuck will not grip less than 1/16" you cannot hold anything in a large chuck smaller than it's minimum, the jaws are not ground to an infinite point. 
To bore a hole would require a boring bar less than the diameter of the hole so I presume you meant drilled the hole , which means that a drill was available etc. etc. I could go on but what's the point . 
Good story though , one for mythbusters!


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## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

My question is does it really matter?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By abby on 04/04/2009 2:21 PM
I have been enjoying this thread but having read this, well sorry to be a bore but as no-one else has commented I feel I must question this statement , 

*"The person I was referring to taught me all the skills I have. He once took a needle and chucked it in his large lathe, cut it in half, bored it out. threaded the ends and stored a pin inside it. His most common comment was that something was "dead nuts on" which meant it was less than .00005 within tolerance."* 

Whilst I don't doubt that this gentleman was skilled I don't understand how something can be less than 0.00005 within tolerance. 
This suggests that the tolerance was plus or minus 0.0001, i.e. plus or minus 1 tenth of a thou. 
What could he possibly be turning that would require such a tolerance ? perhaps someone could enlighten me but I do not know of a lathe on this planet that could turn to this precision. 
Do you really expect us to believe that this fine old man had measuring equipment that could read to an accuracy of less than one tenth of a thou? perhaps you have placed the decimal point incorrectly , but simple deduction suggests that he didn't teach you measuring skills. 
As for the needle story, you neglect to say how big the diameter of the needle was. 
It was obviously bigger than the head of the pin, which are normally large enough to grip in the fingers. 
If he threaded both ends then he must have used a tap and die because it would not be possible to select change wheels to cut such a fine thread on a large lathe even if you could grind a tool to such a small thread profile . 
A 5/8" drill chuck will not grip less than 1/16" you cannot hold anything in a large chuck smaller than it's minimum, the jaws are not ground to an infinite point. 
To bore a hole would require a boring bar less than the diameter of the hole so I presume you meant drilled the hole , which means that a drill was available etc. etc. I could go on but what's the point . 
Good story though , one for mythbusters! 


"History Detectives" on PBS had a show about a person that wanted to know more about a "pin" found in a machinist's chest. It had a second "pin" INSIDE the outer one. The outer one was just like your wife has stored in her pin cushion (dunno what the diameter of those things are). The inner pin had a hole and grooves in it to store a poison. Pins like this were used as a suicide pin by a spy. It just looked like an ordinary pin used to pin clothing together for sewing, but contained a second pin with enough poison to kill a person... quickly!

As for the precision... once down to a certain level it becomes not so much the precision of the machine but the skill of the operator. Yes, I have seen tools that can measure down to the 100th of a thousandth... but they were not something the average machinist would have laying in his toolchest. Again, there is a skill required to use and interpret the measuring devices. (I do NOT have such skill... I can't get two consecutive readings from my Starrett calipers anywhere near the same... take a reading, lay it all down on the work bench, pick it all back up and measure again and be off by .001 or more... no! I don't understand it myself, but that is why I am NOT a Machinist!)


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## abby (Jan 9, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Does it really matter ? well does ANTHING really matter ? or should we all just post amusing anecdotes ? 
To place a pin inside a pin is not the issue , it is a relatively simple procedure , a tube can be drawn out to the thickness of a human hair , hypodermic needles are an example ! can it be machined on a lathe was the subject of my remark and the way figures appear to be plucked from the air and quoted as casual everyday tolerances. Model locomotives do not require anything like these unobtainable tolerances and actually run better with good clearances , but forget it I got better things to do than argue the toss.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Not to belabour the point or start an argument, but the machine doesn't make the part, the machinist does. I've seen some incredibly precise work being done with exactly the same tools I use to turn out tollerable work. Its not the tools, its the man that holds them.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I just about drove myself crazy trying to make a scale oiler that worked, so taking inspiration from Heners Betsy, I did the next best thing.
The image above is the oil metering fitting. The circles say it all. Inside of the false back head is the 7/8 dia x 3/4" tall oil resevoir. 









I'm not sure, but that T shaped piping in the back is probably the injectors and the pipes into are leading from the water tank. (I'm just guessing)

I decided instead of putting dummy injectors on top of my backhead, I would disguise the oiler instead. I have a scale oiler that I will install in front of it that is close to the one in the picture. I'll attach a clean out line to the bottom of the resevoir leading to another angle valve underneath the cab.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Turned some new domes 








I didn't like the ones I turned on the drill press any more. So a month ago I turned these domes and the saddles. Unfortunately, I planed on using the Kozu method for cutting the bottom profiles (where the saddle meets the tank) on my lathe only to find out my brackets and my boring bar were both too small for such a project.











I ended up going to Henners this weekend and he cut the profiles on the saddle using his Grizzly milling machine. As you can see in the picture above, he used a fly cutter. The cutter itself was modified by Henner after I inadvertently set the cutting depth too deep and snapped off the head of the cutter. 
Snapping off the cutter was a bit of a bummer,,, I hate busting other peoples tools, but the cutter he ground from the reminates was actually better than the original cutter. 
There were some other obstacles that we had to overcome as well. Since I was planing on using the Kozu method, on the lathe, the shoulder profiles and the height were already cut. That left Henner with very little to clamp on to so he turned an insert that fit in center of the saddle with a push fit, and shimed the ends of the insert as you see in the picture with some brass rod. 

Be warned that if you are planning on milling your saddles bottom profiles on a milling machine and not a lathe you would be better off, milling the bottom profile first, while the rod is whole and then putting it on the lathe and turning it down to size and cutting in the shoulders and boring it and parting it from the rod. Other wise you'll end up with the time consuming two man task of mounting the piece as shown above.
The next time I do saddles, I'm doing it the right way.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

New clothes for Kauila








A local boy scout troop provide some TLC to Kauila. Jeff Livingston just sent me this and other pictures of the work they did. Very nice job considering the poor state she was in.
Too bad it is impossible to get her up and steaming again /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Rich, 
I will have to find my pictures I took of her at the Bishop museum back in 69/70. Looks much better now. 
Did you get my PM? 
Noel


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Ruby 2 OR&L #6*

Noel, 
I did not get a PM from you,,, try sending it to me at hotmail. My hotmail account is my first initial followed by my last name,,, just like the user name on this site. at hotmail.com of course.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard: #6 looks great. Pardon me for putting on my 1960's hippy artist hat for a minute, but that engine has a lot of "nice vibes" to it. Very appealing to look at. Looks like the cab is "tiger tail" maple. Maple can be stubborn to finish sometimes, but looks like to cracked the code. Maybe next upgrade, go with koa.

Throttle is very nice. 


Take care, Bob


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

XRAY Photo of my Ruby shows the new goodall valve I made today. As you can see the water is feed in through a pipe on the front side of the valve. When I get some more time, I will mount the access hatch.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Been a while since I've done any work on the Ruby. Last week I turned a new water tank cap that fits right over the feed pipe for the good all valve.








As soons as I get some time, I'm going to turn a little stem that will protrude slightly from the hole of the water tank so I can attach my water line to it and fill her up.









I'm pleased with the way the profile turned out. It is a lot closer to the prototypes water tank cap. The hing could be improved on but at least ...








It works


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

That's a very neat water fill cap and a really clever way to hide your goodall port. It's amazing what one can come up with after a bit of head scratching and experimenting.

Llyn


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

O K its been almost 4 years since I started this project and I'm getting no where. Mainly because the dimensions of the Ruby are so far off from the prototype, I feel paralyzed and unable to move. I've made so many concessions just to get as far as I have and I can't make another one. 
So, I'm turning this into a 7/8ths scale project now in the hopes of moving on.
Why,,, in 7/8ths
The smoke box scales out to 22.97 almost 23 scale inches one inch shy of the proto typical size instead of 12 inches over.
The wheels scale out to almost 19 inches which is 5" smaller than the prototype, but at least not 4 inches larger like it is in 1:20.32.
And, I like the proportions better. I did this clumsy mock of the 7/8ths cab and swapped out the stack and I liked what I saw








The boiler looks lower and I find the proportions closer to the proto.
So I started out on the cab.








One nice thing about 1:13.7142 scale is that I can now use larger lumber and traditional joints. I milled up some white oak and started cutting the material and joining it this morning. I'm using a combination of blind tenon and mortise and lap joints. I'll use a closed bridal joint for the bottom rail and I should be done with the cab body joinery tomorrow provided the wife doesn't find some tasks for me


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Had to do yard work today so I only got the joints on the sides and the main roof beam finished. This is a dry fit.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I dry assembled the cab and tested on the existing Ruby. I have to say, I am much more happy with the proportions than I was when I was attempting this in 1:20.32 scale. I will have to change the dims on the front beam and maybe a new tank, but the rest is pretty much how I see the soul of Kauila. Its not an exact scale model of her, but it is closer to how I see her than it was before.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick, 
I must admit, this looks much cuter than your original design. BTW, you have some companions in this scale changing business: Eric blows up his Krauss, David does something similar with his Ruby, while I plan to "narrow gauge" my 1" ride on Heisler. 
Regards 
Henner


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

OUCH! Don't hold a piece in your hand and use a center punch,,, that puppy will pierce the skin!


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

That new Cab really looks stately on her. I can't believe you are going to rebuild the tank again! It will all be well worth it when she is running around the track looking just the way you want. Looking good!


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 09 Sep 2011 06:33 AM 
That new Cab really looks stately on her. I can't believe you are going to rebuild the tank again! It will all be well worth it when she is running around the track looking just the way you want. Looking good! Thanks Randy, I may not have to rebuild the tank. Its the original tank and I did it proportionate to the boiler size which scales out to be 36" I redid it when I put the 1:20.32 scale cab on and it ended up being too high. So now, I can use the same tank, but I've got a smaller tank that is totally out of scale for 1:20.32 and for 7/8ths,,,, Also got some nice domes with the same issue.

Sanded the cab and started planing on milling up the moldings. I was concerned about the ht of the cab. I took the dimension from some erection drawings I have a similar loco and cab but they seemed awful small for a 6 foot tall person, so I tried one of my more whimsical 7/8ths figures in it to make sure I was going in the right direction.








I think he fits pretty good even though he scales out to be 6 foot tall.


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

I really like what you're doing here. Going off in your own direction is always more fun, in my book. And, for a real ng fanatic, 7/8 is where it's at. I've already completed two 7/8 locomotives, based on Roundhouse running gear. My next will be a US prototype, and the Ruby seems to be the only credible foundation for such. I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Keep us posted Ray. BTW, are you a member of SE?


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

Yes.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Made some progress on 7 8s Kauila this week. In between castings I fabricated new front and rear beams (only the front is shown in image). Silver soldered the coal bin together. Fabricated and installed the frame extensions and learned how to drill stainless steel.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Finished making the deck substructure piece last night and finished forming this morning. Note that in the first picture the two 1/32 inch brass fabricated deck brackets are only held on by close pins on the back beam. The one of the right is square and almost leveler with the frame, while the one on the left still needs some more work to get it completely square. The second image shows the both mounted, again with only clothes pin and spring clamp, but now both are square parallel and almost level with the side frames.
I was pleased how they turned except one slight problem with the design. It is only 1/32 of an inch thick brass so I added rigidity to the front bracket by bending a flange into. I neglected to do that on the side runners and now the are pretty week. Originally I thought it wouldn't matter because I was using 1/8" thick vg doug fir for the flooring and the grain is running front to back, but I realize my little guys are going to need steps by the doors








Not to worry though, I have a bunch brass square tubing the right side to stiffen them up.








Still working on the left one. 











Both test fitted and ready for assembly


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I love what you did to the porter. Nice work.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I actually got a lot done this week end when you consider I sculpted, did my honey do tasks, fixed up my shop a little more in addition to working on Kauila.








I assembled the decking substructure, added the steps, test fitted the jet and fuel inlet hose, milled up some scale 1X8 white cedar for decking, mounted the bell to my sand dome, converted an old smoke stack flange to a water fill cap flange big enough for my goodall valve and made some drawings of additional bracing for the front and rear beams. I figure to handle the engine from these contact points and the current brackets are too whimpy for this kind of task.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Today I added some additional bracking for the rear deck substructure so that I could pick up the engine from the rear and the front. I also made some beefy extension brackets for the front beam and after that I assembled and silver soldered the rear substructure and painted everything. I couldn't resist taking a shot of one of my 7/8ths figures in the cab. 

Tomorrow, I will fabricate the ash pan, fabricate a rear mounting bracket for the boiler and the assembly for the rear trailing wheel. If I have time I will fabricate a back head cover to hide the ruby jet.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Ran into a brick wall trying to find some reference material on this trailing wheel assembly. If I am reading the drawings correctly, the journals are on the outside of the wheel. I can't find any examples of this so I pretty much only finished the ash pan and some cosmetic stuff. I also am wondering if this smoke stack looks okay with this engine?


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Lookin good so far.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Great job on the Kauila. I can just see her pulling loads of cane in from fields jammed in between mountains. The picture with the figure really give you a good idea of the size and stature of the loco.


What makes you think the Journal is on the outside? I think the wheel was just drawn lightly so that the mechanics behind it could be understood well. Do you have a picture of that area on the real thing? That would tell you in an instant.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice job Rick. The cab is gorgeous, and the water tank too.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

I just went all the way back to your first post on this thread. You have a picture there that shows the wheel on the out side of the journal. This should make things easier for you since the wheel hides all of the workings. You wouldn't have to model it exactly unless you want it to look right when flipped over.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not sure when this trailing wheel was added, but this is the one that is currently on her. The swing arm is at the rear of the engine, so its sort of configured like a pilot wheel. The closes errection drawings don't show that it shiped out like this, I'm thinking they added it later. The erection drawings show an outside journal, I hear that the Sandy River smaller engines used that type of trailing wheel configuration. I guess tomorrow I'll be doing the outside journal with the forward swing arm.
Today I just finished a few things while I was scullpting.
1 - modified the original goodall valve so that I could fit a silicon tube over it and lead that tubing to filler on the top of the watertank under the filler cap. 
2 - primed and painted the sand dome
3 - installed the link and pin coupler. It is lower than standard, but higher than the cane car so I will be fabricating a 3 tiered link and pin coupler for the back that will work on all 3 hts (the standard, the ht I have in the front and the ht of the can car car).
4 - fabricated and installed the water tank mounting braket.








This is the finished ht of the water tank. It only looks look because the cab is about 5/8" higher than in the original errction drawings. I did this so my little 7/8ths scale people wouldn't have to stoop over to operate the engine all the time. Don't need any back problems on my rail road.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Rick,
the little loco looks better and better! You can avoid the 3 position coupler by making transition links (like an extended "Z"). I think I have seen them at Roaring Camp.
Regards


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## Robbie Hanson (Jan 4, 2008)

The original trailing axle didn't swing with the curves--only slid side to side. 

The U-shaped arm on the outside (tips aiming downward) has pivots at the bottom, with the small arms inside that pivot in and out to let the axle slide. 

EBT's Mikados use this arrangement with inside bearings, while K-27s use it with outside journals. 

I don't have any photos handy; if this doesn't make much sense I'll try to flip my K-27 upside down and take further pics. 

I'd just use a pivot, though; the axle generates a lot of friction on sharp turns with that arrangement.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Some of the Maine Two footers had inside frames on the LEAD trucks. 

Rather than just pivoting, the loco was hanging on swinging links much like a porch swing. (perhaps the two round pieces on the bottom of the frame in you photo are the bottom of those links.) The links would attach somewhere high on the truck frame and a forked (and sprung) pedestal would support the engine weight from the bottom of the swing links....complicated to explain but simple in practice. 

They then had a wishbone shaped arm with the two arms bolted to the truck frame and the single end pivoting on the engine frame. this radius arm kept the wheels pointed in the right direction. 

We generally model our trains with just this radius arm. rather than using the swing links, some sort of sprung-sliding support is generally used.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

spent most of the morning scullpting a 7/8ths nude and tuning the engine up while I fiddle around with some modified linkage for the reversing valve. I want to run her as soon as I get all the cosmetic stuff done, but I have yet to recieve the reversing valve that I want for this project so, I have devised a little jerry rigged thing that I can access from the front of the engine. I was going to hook the finished one up to the Johnson bar but with linkage down the side of the engine to a lever that operates a rod going to the valve inside the smokebox pedistal, but I decided not to make that arrangement till have the real reversing valve and make sure it works. For now, no Johnson bar, just a lever I operate by the front beam. I'll put up some picks tomorrow as I am looking for my old oiler and can't find it and can't move on till I do.... I am never, ever moving again. The next place I move to will be an urn, and if I do get a home, back home again, I will keep this one just so I don't have to move. 
Anyway, thanks for all the info. I am just going to make a simple swing arm with outside journals and not fret over it any more.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I've had a very frustrating 2 days of searching for my Ruby oiler. I had always plan to make one of my own design, but I'm just hoping I didn't accidentally toss it out in the trash. I finally gave up after unpacking all the remaining boxes from our move (mine not ours or hers). I did run accross the spare parts from my Lanakila mod and got a little distracted by the head lamp.








I plan on making one out of brass, but this is close enough to the finish sized I had to try it out. Its 1:20.32 scale but because it is for the larger engine it almost looks right (too bad its plastic)
So I ran a pressure test on my custom fittings (my goodall valve and the pressure valve extension). I was happy to see that despite using silicon tubing from the valve to the fill nipple on the front of the tank, it held tight with air pressure of 65 PSI going through it for about 1/2 hour. I also tried to get rid of that frustrating problem with reverse,,, there is no reverse. It runs great forward, but the moves just budge a little and go no where in reverse. Hopefully my new reversing valve will get rid of that problem completely. So I had time to make myself a little punch list of what I need to finish (actually if I had my oiler I could put it altogether right now and run it!!!!). So this in the order of presidence.
1. Make a displacment oiler from scratch ( my first time doing that and I got a feeling it aint easy)
2. fabricate the trailing wheel assembly and install

3. complete the water tank fill cap assembly and install

4. fabricate the mounting blocks for the sanding pipes and install to the sandi doom
5. Make the brakets for the cab and mount the cab temporarily so I can run her

6. Make the bracket for the coal bin and install 
7. lightly weather the under carriage
8. make moldings for the cab and windows and install them

9. fabricaet the fake back head 
10. fabricate or purchase a straight connect butane jet to replace the angled one and install it to silicon hose that is hidden in the coal bin when not in use.
11. fabricate a new banjo fitting desined specifically for the regner control valve
12. fabricate a headlamp like the one in the pic above that is slightly bigger.
13. weather all the nuts and bolts.
14 . install new reversing valve and hook up linkage to the johnson bar.
If I can just get step one done, then I can at least run her for a while.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I cut out patterns for the swing arm assembly for the trailing wheel today. Made a few adjustments on the reverse lever so that I will be able to hook up the linkage from the Johnston bar when I want and the lever action won't get in the way. But my mind was really on that headlamp. So I decided to make a mock up of one to see how the proportions look compared with the little plastic one.
I sort of like the size, I am even thinking of doing a fully operational model like the last image. Maybe I can use denatured alcohol for the fuel.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Rich, where did you resurrect that photo from? That's my lamp in my garage and I had forgotten about those photos. If you want dimensions or other info, let me know. 

If I can make a suggestion, I think the lamp mockup overwhelms the engine a bit by appearing wider than the smokebox diameter. Is it? 

Larry 

PS-if anyone is interested in the lamp, send a PM.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have seen a few photos of prototype locos where the size of the headlamp totally overwhelms the size of the loco. Almost comical in appearance.

(PM sent!)


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Fabricated the lamp body from single piece of 1/32" brass. It needed a little tweaking but I put it on its prospective base. I plan on cutting and ogee or some detailinto the base which is why it is so thick.








So I got cocky and started hammering out the reflector. I precut the holes for the lamp cover and eveything seemed to be going good. I can do a 1:20.32 scale reflector by just annealing the brass one time. Not so with this 1" dia reflector, as you can see I didn't even get it all hammerd out before I got stress fractures around the lamp cover holes. I'll have to reduce the size of the holes on the next one, and anneal once I align and keep my eyes open for case hardening when I am working the metal. I still had to see how it fit with my mock up lamp stand.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Larry Green on 10 Dec 2011 04:17 PM 
Hey Rich, where did you resurrect that photo from? That's my lamp in my garage and I had forgotten about those photos. If you want dimensions or other info, let me know. 

If I can make a suggestion, I think the lamp mockup overwhelms the engine a bit by appearing wider than the smokebox diameter. Is it? 

Larry 

PS-if anyone is interested in the lamp, send a PM. 
Larry, yes I saved them when you originally posted them to the site. I hope you don't mind. I could only find this view though and I seem to recall you did four angles on that. I do have a question, what type of hinges are on the door? Plans would be nice especially if posted here. I wish I had read your post before I started on this, but I could not resist. BTW, Like Larry, I have seen images of what might be Kauila with a lamp that dwarfs the engine. I think it was taken when she was almost new and I'm really trying to get that pre occupation look to the engine, like I am guessing she might have looked working the royal quarries, and then being dolled up for the kings 50 birthday celebration.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I like the look of the headlight that size...it reminds us that this is a small engine...we are used to seeing those same headlights on huge standard gauge 4-4-0's where the engineer would look right over the cab of a two foot gauge locomotive! 

On the old photos of Maine Narrow gauge engines the headlights are three quarters of the height of the smokestack!


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Rich, the door has a piano hinge mounted on the inside. The hinge rod is 3/16" dia. and has a 1-1/4" dia. loop at the top. 

This lamp has an 18" dia. opening; the reflector is about 17" dia. at front. The rectangular section of the body is 22" W X 16" D X 24 1/2" H. Overall height including base to chimney top is 43" 

Larry


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Larry Green on 11 Dec 2011 09:33 AM 
Rich, the door has a piano hinge mounted on the inside. The hinge rod is 3/16" dia. and has a 1-1/4" dia. loop at the top. 

This lamp has an 18" dia. opening; the reflector is about 17" dia. at front. The rectangular section of the body is 22" W X 16" D X 24 1/2" H. Overall height including base to chimney top is 43" 

Larry 
Thanks Larry. I have to reduce it just a little so that the reflector is 11" and the opening is 12". I am sort of doing this one by eye anyway, but worked a little on the top today using some scrap brass.








I eyeballed the top piece. I think it is a little too tall and I may or may not flatten it out and start all over from the begining so that it is a little shorter.
Here is the image I was thinkinjg of, although it is a newer rounder Kerosine lamp check out the size of the lens.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

12" diameter was also a standard size light of that era--switchers or NG? 

Larry


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Its a narrow gauge Larry. 3' but for 7/8ths it scales out to 2 ft.
I got frustrated trying to solder the top. There is just not enough beat on those edges for solder. I'm wondering how I can do it, so to keep busy and think I turned a little filet thingy for around the lens. The final opening is 7/8ths of an inch 12 inches in 7/8ths. I silver soldered it on just fine, so I know its not my soldering.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
try to silver solder (braze) the basic structure and then add details with soft solder. Recently I had good success with Rubyfluid as flux, plumbers solder (without rosin core) and some stainless steel/aluminum clamps to hold everything together. Heat up with a soft small flame until the solder wicks into the gaps. I hated soft soldering, but this combination has taken out the hassle.
Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the tip Henner. I tried it, but I'm not good enough or not understanding completely your instructions. I had to tear it all apart and I 'll have to reshape the top again. Do you use a torch? Or a soldering iron for this technique? I got a lot of burning using a very low setting with a pin torch. Was I supose to clean and flux after brazing?
Anyway, I haver to put the project aside for a few days now so that I can get some sculpt off my table and get ready for xmas. My son is visiting from Hawaii and I need to clean up the guest room. I took this shot to show the proportion of the light compared with an average size man. This is Jasper he is a 5'10" man in 7/8ths scale which puts him just over 5" tall.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

The only suggestion I could make is that the lens opening should be bigger in proportion to the box...Just what my eye says.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Eric, 
You maybe right, but I think the box needs to be smaller in ht wt and dp. I tried to scale up the proportions of the little plastic one but with a 12" lamp, I did the math in my head and did not double check it with a calculator, which is always a bad move. But I figure this one to be experimental any way and since I've already made a lot of mistakes I will probably go back some time in the future and do it over again the right way and with the correct dimensions.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Is there any reason not to make the top from a solid piece? Easier than trying to solder the edges together imho.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Dwight, I'm trying to make a functioning lamp. I need that space for draft and exhaust. Plus, I like the challenge of doing it


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Try tinning the parts and sweat them together. Remember the solder flows to the heat, liquify the tinned solder and draw with the torch to the seam.... 

If you used jewelry grade silver solders they are available in 4 temperatures; hard, medium, easy and extra easy. For those solders I'd recommend Batterns self pickling flux, it's a yellowgreen liquid. 

John


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

That would be really cool if you can make it a live kerosene lamp!!!!

I think kerosene might be a better choice than alcohol as it will burn with more "color" I just am not sure how a scale flame will work out...fun to experiment! 

I might try to stick with high temp silver solder to reduce any potential heat problems from the flame.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

It would be pretty straightforward to drill a solid piece for the chimney you want. If you're determined to make it from sheet, in that case I'd make a hardwood form and bend flange fingers/tabs (due to the irregular shape) on the front and back pieces around the sides, tin the flange and the matching side pieces, then sweat the sides to the front/back using an iron. Clamp the side after sweating and fill the seam gap with soft solder, then file smooth.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks all. Dwight, good suggestion, I was thinking the same this morning as I worked on other parts, a wooden form and tabs. The tabs could be drilled for temporary mechanical connections. I could grind away the heads of the bolts after soldering is complete.
My wife made the mistake of asking me to cut up some dowels for her classes project this morning. I was in the shop and the engine was just sitting there so I could not resist work on her just a little more since cutting the dowels took such a short time.









I hammered out another reflector. This time I annealed 6 times and got to the depth I needed, but as I was trying to smooth the metal out, the fractures occured around the holes again. Since it was deep enough I polished it up a little bit and used it for a mock up of the lamp assembly, at least I will have verified dimensions once I finish a good one. I know what to do know. I will drill 1/16" holes just for orientation and then ream them out to the right dimensions once the headlamp is formed, that way if any fractures occur, they will be easily removed.








So, I got done with that quickly and decided to make the inside pannel for the door and my fake piano hinge. It needs to be squared up a little then I'll add the outside panel. I got to stop today and get moving on the holiday preparations.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

If the material you are using for the reflector is brass...another option is to use copper which is more ductile...it will still need to be annealed several times but should be easier to work. Then it would need to be plated to be a good reflector. 

I noticed that the bolts rusted a bit over night on the front buffer beam!


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Phippsburg Eric on 13 Dec 2011 05:43 PM 
If the material you are using for the reflector is brass...another option is to use copper which is more ductile...it will still need to be annealed several times but should be easier to work. Then it would need to be plated to be a good reflector. 

I noticed that the bolts rusted a bit over night on the front buffer beam! 
Err a well you see I had to prime and paint those dowels so I figured while the paint was out, I should make good use of it  She got home and is happy with her dowels, and hasn't noticed the changes to the loco


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh,,, I'm considering copper for the top but not the reflector. I want it to have the polished brass not nickle plating.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

There is a very similar engine (actually a pair) here in Maine. One is being restored by the folks at the Boothbay Railway Village. http://www.railwayvillage.org/sdwarrenloco-boo.html










I cannot quite decide how a Ruby would work out for this engine...Is it 7/8th scale or 1:20.3? I am thinking 1:20.3. You have inspired me to play with Rubys again!!!


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric; 

Those are delightfully unusual freight cars. They look like somebody took some small garden storage barns, stretched the width, and put primitive trucks under them. Thanks for sharing the photo. 

Best, 
David Meashey


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Phippsburg Eric on 14 Dec 2011 05:43 AM 
There is a very similar engine (actually a pair) here in Maine. One is being restored by the folks at the Boothbay Railway Village. http://www.railwayvillage.org/sdwarrenloco-boo.html










I cannot quite decide how a Ruby would work out for this engine...Is it 7/8th scale or 1:20.3? I am thinking 1:20.3. You have inspired me to play with Rubys again!!! 

Eric,
that is a sweet little 0-4-0. Mine is 7/8ths now. It started out being a 1:20.32 but I couldn't get close enough on the proportions without comprimising engine performance, so I switched to the larger scale and sacrificed rail guage accuracy. Kauila was 3' but in 7/8ths its 2' gauge. BTW, a Ruby would make a great start for the above prototypein 7/8ths. In fact it would be very cool because you can move the boiler forward a little and replace the smoke box lilke I did with on that is longer like your prototype. Even the wheels look just about right. Mine or 6" smaller than the prototype. Those are very cool cars to model too. Looks like the pitched roofs open? I guess its sort of like a semi covered grain car?


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have been thinking about doing a 7/8th engine and maybe you are right and I should do it as 7/8th scale. I had an idea to build a new boiler for it which burns wood pellets as sold for pellet stoves all around the north country...the stuff seems to burn in a manner similar to coal. 

The engine served out its life at a paper mill just outside Portland. I suspect the cars carried Really big rolls or bales of paper. In fact I think you can see them inside the doors of the car. I enlarged the photo and looked carefully.


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## Dr. J (Feb 29, 2008)

A wood burning live steamer. Gotta hand it to you for innovation. Do you suppose there's enough thermal energy locked up in the wood pellets to make it work? i.e. can you make a hot enough fire that lasts long enough per pellet, in such a small firebox? The physics of wood-burning (or coal-burning) doesnt "scale" down to our size very well.


I just found this: http://www.raghavlpg.com/auto%20lpg.html , from which I learn that wood has about one third the energy content of butane (15 vs 45), but it compares favorably to coal (15 BTU/gm for wood, 22 cal/gm for coal).

You would need to think about volume of fuel as well, given the small size of our fireboxes. It's not BTU/gm that counts, as much as it is BTU/cc of space in the firebox. If coal is denser than wood, then you can stuff more BTUs into the firebox. I have no idea about the pellets; maybe that information is printed on the bag, or available from the mfgr. 

Very cool idea.
Jim C aka Dr. J


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

We probably should get into the details of pellet burning elsewhere rather than commandeer Richards building thread! If I convert a Ruby to a 7/8 scale engine I would show some photos in a separate thread as well. But taking Richards advice and running with it, I drew up an engine based on the Ruby which resembles the little S D Warren Paper Mill Engine. I think it looks pretty good! If I am feeling rich I may spring for a kit! I show the Ruby's domes (more or less) moved up to the top of the tank. I moved the sand dome toward the cab...have to think about what that would do to access boiler fittings-my old kit boiler had it's fill under the sand dome.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Eric, 
Look at my solution on this thread. My dome is fixed, and I have a silicone tube leading to my goodall valve underneath the tank. The fill nipple is going to be hid by the filler cap on the front of the tank.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I intended to work a little on Kauila's head lamp top and then on Olomana's side frames. However, after starting on the forms.








I quickly realized that none of my router bits had the proper size radius and I was going to have to create the forms completely by hand with a combination of files and small hand planes. I was able to cut the rough shape out on the table saw, other wise I'd be working on this for the whole week.
However, I didn't finish the form till around 3 P.M. so I only got to fabricate one part from it.








I took Henner's suggestion and used copper instead of brass. Henner is really good with the solder and I've seen examples of his edge to edge soldder, but I'm not that good so, I am putting tabs on the front and back parts and then soldering the sides on top of them. I'll get back to working on Olomana tomorrow after I finish this top once and for all.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Got the parts formed this morning. I need to burnish them a little but first I want to clean them off. I have them in some vinegar now. I'll leave them in there for a couple of hours then take them out and burnish them and then back in the vinegar for a short period and then right to soldering.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Looks like you have a good shape coming along! 

I have used a green Scotch Bright pad to scuff off the residual gunk when soldering my boiler it works great, just don't bring it back to the kitchen when you are done. steel wool works too.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, today started out good. I still need to clean it and square it up a little but I did finish soldering the top, it did solder a little easier this time. But I lost my form 
I did a real bone head thing. I used my form as a jig for soldering. It wasn't the heat the ruined the form, it was me forgetting to stop, look and think before I committed to an action. Had I done so, I would have instantly realized that the compound curves would have presented a bit of a struggle to remove after soldering. My mistake became instantaneously clear as I proudly held the soldered piece up for inspection. To compound the initial error, I panicked, grabbed a dremel and started carving away at the form to remove the top from the bottom. As I got closer to success the panic started to subsided it was then I realized "curses foiled again!" I rushed in without thinking that I could just as easily heated the pieces up, removed them from the form and then built an appropriate jig for the job. 
I'd like to think I learned something from this fiasco,,,, but only time will tell


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I think that falls into the category of "OOPS!"


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Amber at the time,,, I placed it in a little more profain category than OOPs


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Luckily this is the worse side of the top. All the steel wool and burnishing brightened it up a little, but I can still see the tiny dings from the forming process. I'm going to have to put some filler on it especially to feather in the side parts. The are only 1/64 of inch thick, but it looks like a huge edge sticking up, and I want to feather it in so as to look a gentle rise like a detail I meant to put in. I have learned a lot from this though, and it will do for now, but part of me just wanted to scap everything and start over again from scratch. I even have a better idea for the forms. 
If the lamp works, then I will do just that,,,, or I may just make a 1:12 version for Olomana, even though she didn't sport a lamp during her career on the plantation.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Lookin good Richard! possibly you may want to try solder rather than putty? might stick better? or just file it flat if you have enough metal.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Phippsburg Eric on 29 Feb 2012 05:53 PM 
Lookin good Richard! possibly you may want to try solder rather than putty? might stick better? or just file it flat if you have enough metal. 
I did a low temp solder for the top. I don't want to risk it falling apart. I used JB weld as a fill and then primed it. I'll check the primer out for areas that still need fill and fill those with bondo and then prime again before painting.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Good looking light!


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Amber, Thanks, its not perfect, but it is good enough for a first attempt


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

If you really dislike it, you can send it to me.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I'd show you some pics of todays work, but it seems I lost my first class status. I worked on the reflector today. I'd had trouble with it fracturing aound the predrilled holes, and thought maybe I was making the holes too big. I can tell you now, that this is not the case. I drilled 1/64" holes today and they still fracture, in fact, they fractured faster than they did when they were large. I don't know if I was going faster and that was why or if it is something to day with the brass itself. Anyway, I decided to just drill the holes after I hammered out the reflector and guess what! Before I could get half way to the depth I wanted, a small fracture started to appear. I decided to just go ahead and stop at that point and leverage the crack to see if I could still drill it out enough to make the holes for the chimney. If I could show you a picture, you could see that I was able to pass a 3/16 dowel through the two holes and mount it in the light case as a test. Unfortunately the reflector is not deep enough. For one the chimney of the lamp ends up too far forward and because it isn't deep enough I am limited to 3/16" for the chimney. I was hoping to form a bulb with at least a 5/16" bulb for the combustion chamber. It also reduce the amount of reflective surface being so shollow. 
I've come to the conclusion that my skills and the metal are ok, the method I am using, is not. While this method works fine on 1:20 scale and lower reflectors, it does not for the larger reflectors. I'm going to need to make a form that I can drape the brass over and hammer on instead of the block I'm currently using with concaved circles in it. I am theorizing that the brass is just getting caught up on the edges and restricting the material so much it just stresses and cracks. I'll make a maple form tomorrow and try it in reverse. 
On a good note though, I discovered that drilling and aligning the holes after fabrication isn't nearly as hard as I originally thought it would be, so I'm going to skip doing that using the new method. 
Amber,,, I think I'll hang on to it, thanks


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

Like what you're doing! I've been thinking something similar, using Ruby as a platform.
I'm an Olomana fan too- got to fire the real thing many years ago, when Mr. Best still owned it. 

RE your reflector, maybe I missed it in the previous text, but are you annealing your work as you go? Sounds like work hardening to me..


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
you may want to try spinning in the lathe. Dennis and I can explain it to you via Skype on Saturday.
Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, always annealing as I go. 
Henner, I know about the spining in a lathe, I just prefer forming it this way. One other thing about the lathe spining is I think you have to start out with a hole in the center and I don't want a hole in the center. 
Ray, you have any personal pics of Olomana? Henner and I are working on a scale model of her.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Rick, if you make a male form, you might try making it of steel so you can use it like an anvil. 

I have had only limited success doing deep shaping of brass even when annealed. if all else fails copper can be shaped more easily, I guess it would need to be plated to give it the right shine. I think if you plated it with nickel it would be shiny but not crazy bright like chrome would be...I haven't tried plating so I cannot speak to what is possible, how hard it is to do and how expensive. 

I have made reflectors by machining them from a solid bar of Aluminum then polishing them a bit with fine sand paper or steel wool. they come out pretty shiny though, which may not be the look you want. 

on another subject what did you use for your number plate? I have a Trackside Details Baldwin plate (#3) but wonder if it is too small by a couple of scales. were all the Baldwin number plates the same size? it should look huge on a ickle-bitty engine like these.


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

I don't think I have any good detail shots, just some long views of Ward's backyard that tried to fit everything in. I was about 13 at the time, and was too amped up to think about taking decent pictures. They're on old slides too. I have to transfer them to digital someday, need to find someone to do it.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Eric, the top is made from a maple male form. I think maple will be hard enough. The trick I find is do not hit it too hard. Work it slowly and evenly. I make all my reflectors with brass sheet using the femail steel form I have and made the body of the headlamp using a maple male form same as the top but easier because I only needed to form the corners and no curves. The top took several annealings and slow steady work. I don't like milling away at brass stock unless I have to. It seems like a waste to not form sheets instead, even then I resent the bits of scrap that are left over after forming.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I don't think you _have to_ have a hole to spin a sheet on the lathe. If you can clamp the work between a male form and a backing pad (one in the headstock, one in the tailstock) with enough pressure to hold it securely (rubber might be helpful) I suspect you could spin it without difficulty.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Just curious, have you thought about making the reflector from sheet nickle silver? A long time ago I made several things from sheet nickle silver and found that it was fairly easy to work. As I remember, it had to be annealed for forming, but it's pretty nice stuff to work with.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Kenneth - Fact is I like forming the metal with a form. I know this is the method they originally used to make those reflectors and it makes me feel connected. I believe though, since I figured out on my own how to do this without the bennifit of serving under a master or picking up a book on the subject my method is incorrect and I need to do it the right way. I am starting the right way this a.m. 
Amber, I'll have to give that material a try some day, but not on this project. The reflector needs to highly polished brass. I've nickle plated brass reflectors in the past with great success. They don't oxidize. And for the smaller reflectors, brass is not that hard to work. Does the nickle silver oxidize after polishing like silver, or does the nickle helpprevent this? Also where can I pick some of these material up?


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
Nickel silver is used in the jewelry trade. Just google for "Nickel silver sheet". If annealed it forms almost as good as copper. Some connecting rods and wheel rims of HO locos were made of this material. It stays bright over a long time. I bought a piece a couple of years ago and it is still shiny.
Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Henner. Sounds like it would be better to use that stuff than brass for a chromed reflector since chroming is kind of a pain in the bottom. 
I just want to report that todays experiment was a success. The brass formed beautifully over the male form. I did do something different though; instead of turning a hemisphere of maple, I burnished some aluminum foil to the inside of my steel form and filled the cavity with plumbers epoxy putty and put a mdf backer on it. 
I wasn't sure if this would hold up under the continued blows from a hammer, but it did and from the looks of it, I can use it a few more times before tossing it. 
As soon as I get some time I will upload some pics to my site and link them to this page showing the materials I used and the make shift tools I made to complete the task.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Rick,
If you turn on Skype, you can see a boiler for your loco. We just finished it.
Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, I'm turning it on now


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Here are a few pics of my progress. 








Primed the top and test fitted the failed reflector from yesterday,,, note that the 3/16" dowel leaves very little room for a big combustion chamer on the glass. 








Here is the pic of the freshly made form and the epoxy putty I used to make it with. 








Some of the tools I used to do the job.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm eager to work on Olomana now, so I am going to put the lamp on the back burner for now. Its in good enough condition to be a fake light but I really want Kauila to run before I move all my attention to Olomana, so I started working on the trailing wheels today. My pocket book has dictated that they are going to be inside journals after all. So I changed my design a little and milled up and fabricated the parts.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Nice bearings! I wish I had the machinery to do those kind of things, it would certainly make building these kinds of things easier!


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Amber. Having a milling attachment for my lath is nice, but these kind of bearings are easy to make with or without a mill. You do need a 7/64" bit and a 1/4" and a 3/64" bit. A good vise some pieces of wood and a steady hand. This is just two pieces of 1/4x1/4" brass stock. I cut the stock in to 9/16" pieces with a razor saw (square cut is critical) and then matched them up and scribed them with letters and a triangle so I could tell the orientation and which pairs went to gether and then made them even squarer with a file. Next I took the totally square parts and put them in a bench vise on top of some 1/4X1/2" wood stock sanded down a little so they would be slightly less than 1/4". I clamped another piece of wood to the vise like a stop. Finally I attached the bench vise to my drill press and drilled the screw holes, carefully turning them end for end so that the centers wouid be on the same plan. Then I got some 1/2x1/2 wood stock and did the holes in the center by clamping the pair face up in the vise and drilling into the center first with a 7/64" bit then a 1/4" bit. I did this to both pair and polished the insides with sand paper on a dowel. 
For the brass 3/64" brass I cheated and used my bandsaw to cut it out, but a good jewelers saw would have worked too, just not as quickly.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

That sounds like a good way to make those bearings! I'll have to try that method. I have a small 3 wheel bandsaw and I have a metal blade for it, so cutting the plate shouldn't be too hard. I could make the bearings for the axles of my 1/6th scale mine cars that way.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are using brass, you probably won't need it. I cut the brass on my regular bandsaw blade. Same one I cut wood with. I forgot to mention a center punch. Its a must if you are doing these without a drill press. Its handy if even if you are because you can mark the holes for the screws on the first end of the first pair and you setup your vise on the drill based on that mark and you can just use the stop after that. 
Also, the dimenstion of the wood you use in your vise might differ from mine. I have two, or 3 bench vises hanging out around my shop and they all have different depths. 








I mounted the journals on swing arm thing and used this 1/4 scrap brass rod to align the pieces as I mounted them. I also put the assemly in a vise and chucked the rod into a cordless drill and put some buffing compound on the rod and then polished the journals in place for about 10 minutes till they had a mirror finish. 








While the painted assembly was baking in the oven at 175 F for 30 minutes I polished the axles of my wheels. The lath and a scrap piece of brass came in handy for this. I polished for about an hour using sand paper 220 to 600 and then I took some buffing compound on felt and finished off. The axel had a brushed steel finish but is now nice and smooth. 








Assembled and test fitted to the loco. I can now move on to the oiler.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

She's looking good!


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## StevenJ (Apr 24, 2009)

It looks natural in 7/8ths. I'm surprised more people don't bash their Ruby's to this scale!


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm really enjoying seeing this come together. The colors all just seem natural together. I love the headlight size too, since it seems to drive home the small size of the loco. Well done!


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

I agree. I'm a huge fan of the 'little' engines, and have been thinking about doing a 7/8 bash on a Ruby. Love what you're doing!


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks eveyone. Someone on the SE forum complained that they couldn't see the trailing wheels in my glamour shot. This morning I realized that I hadn't tested the wheels on a 2' raduis curve yet so this shot was taken on a section of 2' radius track. The wheels clear with room to spare. 








I've been rummaging through my brass supply today to make sure I have what I need to make the oiler. I realized I should probably sit down and draw up a sketch or somthing. Building off the cuff is not a good idea when you have to mill up brass. I'm going to try out my new 3D modeling software to see if I can come up with a good mock up from my dimensions.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Richard-- 

The little loco is coming along beautifully!


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I worked on designing the lubricator some more. I think I'm going to have to make it slightly larger than scale and use brass tubing for some of it to get the volume of oil I need to assure the engine doesn't run dry. 
To see how it would look slightly out of scale I put this animation of the 3D parts I modeled moving accross a terrain. No wheels, no track, but it gives me a better idea of what it will look like than anything I can mockup out of cardboard and dowels.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not sure if you can see this image. If not, let me know and I'll upload it to my servers. It should be public, but you can never tell. I have done most of the machining on the first 5 parts of my lubricator. The top looks a bit awkward because I am using it is the fill plug and want a minimum of a 10mm hole, so while the top is pretty much proportionate to the prototype the steam is too thick. I need to drill holes for the displacement line and the dummy plumbing.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard

Image displays fine for me.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Steve. 








I just tested this out at 40 PSI. I am afraid to go any higher because the tube that is the body of the tank is that thin K&S brass. Does anyone know how much pressure I should put in it to test. No problems at 40 PSI, I don't want to go higher unless I have to because, like I said that K&S brass tube freaks me out.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

the Lubricator looks great 

That brass tubing is pretty darned strong when pressurized. I do not think you will break it! I would reccomend pressurizing it like you would a boiler to double the working pressure...Especially if you are worried that it might not be strong enough!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 12 Mar 2012 06:13 PM 
Thanks Steve. 

I just tested this out at 40 PSI. I am afraid to go any higher because the tube that is the body of the tank is that thin K&S brass. Does anyone know how much pressure I should put in it to test. No problems at 40 PSI, I don't want to go higher unless I have to because, like I said that K&S brass tube freaks me out. 

Do you remember the "Calvin and Hobbes" comic? Calvin's dad explained to Calvin how the highway dept knew what to write on the weight limit sign on bridges... "They build a bridge and run heavier and heavier trucks over it until it falls down and then they rebuild the bridge and put a sign on it for the weight of the last truck to make it across".

SOOooooOOooo... Apply pressure until it breaks, then make a new one and never exceed the pressure at which the 1st one failed!

I assume you know to always do pressure tests using only water, with NO AIR anywhere in the system ("Hydrostatic test"). 

With no air in the system, when the metal fails there is an instant squirt of a very small amount of water and the pressure will immediatly drop to zero and there is no "explosion". (If there is air in the system there can be a much more violent result, depending on how much air; but with nothing but hydrolic content, there is very, very little danger of violence [might squirt you in the eye!].)


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Semper, I did not know that. I am going to have to rig something up. I guess I could fill a small paint pot and apply pressure to that, but will the water pressure be equal to the air pressure I apply?


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Wait a minute. What if I were to fill up the lubricator with water and then pressurize it?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES PRESSURIZE WITH AIR!

Or any "gas".

Fill it with water and use a small hand pump, even a spray water bottle to apply the pressure. I test my Aster Mikes with the hand pump in the tender. All it takes is about 2 strokes and the pressure will rise to 80 or 90 PSIG.

If you use a compressable gas, it will compress and compress and compress and if there is a rupture of the vessel then that gas will continue to expand until it is back to the pressure of the surrounding air.

Use a non-compressable liquid and only the metal will stretch (and maybe a rubber hose if one is in the circuit) and if a rupture occurs the only thing that continues to push on the water is the slightly expanded metal and it very quickly reverts to it normal state.

When I test my Mikes, I put a pressure gauge in place of one safety valve and I hold the other one down with my finger. I pressurize the boiler with a couple of strokes of the tender pump and hold it for a few minutes to see if there are any leaks. When I take my finger off the safety valve I get a quick squirt of water that has enough velocity to wash my ceiling! But it is only a teaspoon of water! If something were to burst it would be just like releasing that safety valve... a short squirt and done.

If I used air and and release the safety, then it would go WHOOOOOOOSH for several minutes as the air decompresses. If something were to give way and burst that whoosh would become a jet that could throw the loco across the room and a velocity fast enough to damage ME. In a larger vessel, something that is above the "critical crack length (Google that term) there could be schrapnel involved. KABOOM!


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
I would not worry about the thin walled brass tube. The hoop stress, which describes the force on the tube is proportional to D/t (D = diameter, t = wall thickness). The wall thickness is probably about the same in relation to the diameter compared to a copper boiler. Copper is also softer, so my guess is that the tube can carry several hundred PSi. It is more likely the soft solder which holds it together will fail. I also think you can risk testing this small volume with air, if you can't rig up a hydrostatic test. Forces and stored energy are pretty small and if you wear eye protection, you should be safe. Testing a boiler is a different story, the one we built for you will be tested with water.

Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, is that 290 PSI for the tubes hoop stress if I am understanding your equation right? 
I guess I AM more likely to blow out the ends! 
I will run a test with tap water just to be extra special safe and avoid a lobatomy by one of the softsoldered pieces. 
Thanks for the formula,,, oh, was I right to assume the results are bars and not some other form of measurement I am not familiar with. I know it can't be MPa or I could apply close to 12000 psi if the ends could take it.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
I did not send you the complete formula, as I just wanted to demonstrate the relation between tube and boiler. The calculator is here:

http://www.engineersedge.com/materi...stress.htm

You also need the tensile strength of brass, which is conservatively about 19000PSi. The hoop stress must be less than the tensile strength. Hope this helps.
Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, the link did not work but I found this on Wikipedia  HOOP STRESS, and while I won't pretended I understand it all, I could make enough sense out of it to allay my fears for the tube exploding


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Well I am happy to say the soldered parts don't leak, but at 70 PSI the cap started leaking. I tried tightening it, but the o ring started buldging out and that only made it worse. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Cut a groove in either the cap or the base to hold and keep the 0-ring in place. or use a fiber washer that won't stretch to a larger diameter.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

What material do you suggest for a fiber washer? Its impossible to chuck either one in the lathe, although if push comes to shove I coudl make a new cap.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe a metal ring that is small enough to capture the o-ring and hold it in place? maybe the same outer diameter as the cap, but thin enough so the cap can be tightened. Also, try not tightening it so much... sometimes the distortion of the o-ring caused by over tightening it is the problem (as you indicated in your original description!). 

Depending on the smoothness of the facing surfaces, an oiled dollar bill cut to a ring might suffice (I doubt if layers of it would work well). 

Check at the hardware store for faucet parts that might fit.


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

Why don't you get a piece of teflon rod and turn one on the lathe?


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have made fiber washers from Levis jeans' label material the stuff is pretty tough, stands up to a lot of washings.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

Use a smaller diameter O ring, one that you have to stretch over the threads. 

Steve


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Problem solved. I cut a small chamfer on the lip of the fill hole with a small hand drill and chucked the cap up on the lath and cut a deeper grove in the face above the threads and on the neck around the threads. 
I put it back under pressure and over 5 minutes later,,, maybe 6 or 7 I had no leaks,,, how ever some did develope around the plumbing on the side, very fine bubbles. I took it off pressure and will solder the plumbing and add a line to the throttle and bend the line out at floor level. I made a mounting plate for it and tested fitted it and will solder tomorrow. 
Thanks all for your suggestions.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
I might be too late. I made a tool to cut any size fiber washers on the lathe and Dennis made a lathe tool bit which cuts nice half-round grooves to trap an O-ring. I can show you both during our next Skype session.
Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner,,,, I already have your washer cutter from the first time I attended the Saturday Workshops,,, can't wait to see the grove cutter, it was a royal nerve racking pain in the arse using the huge cutter I had.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Okay,,, I got side tracked. The lubricator needs a mounting bracket and I had intended that to be attached to a back head detail. So instead of working ont he banjo fitting for the throttle, pressure gauge, and 2 other steam outlets, I decided to work on the back head detail so I could mount the lubricator on. I got a lot done, but still have to fabricate and attach a fake water gauge and fake throttle. My throttle is going to be a regner throttle. It looks so much like a big valve it want look ouit of place when Kauila is in static display mode. 








This is what it will look like in static mode. 








This is what it will look like with the door open so I can insert the jet. I tried it out and the jet fits fine. The original jet has an elbow fit, as soon as I get some extra cash, I'll buy a straight one from accucraft like the one on my 4-4-0. I'd make one, but I don't think I have acquired the level of precission I need to accomplish that. 
If the face of the back head looks a little dinged up, that is intentional. It was my lame attempt to make the copper look like cast iron. I think it would have worked if i was a little less heavy handed with the ball pean hammer.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Re: copper and cast iron 

Bear in mind that the backhead would definitely not have been cast iron. As part of the boiler, it would be the same iron (later, steel) boiler plate as the rest, and hopefully quite smooth. The fire door was probably cast iron, but the rest would be plate. If the backhead was lagged (unlikely, but possible) it would have no rivet detail, and likely would have some dents in the thin sheet iron cover. There would also be recesses in the lagging around the fire door and anything else that had to be directly connected to the boiler.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
no need to get a jet assembly from Accucraft. Just send a sketch to the Saturday gang. 
Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info Kenneth, I was going off a photo and it did show some additional bolts around the door, but I ran out of the right size bolts for the job so stopped there. The backhead in the pic I have is for a 4-4-0 and it shows them actually working on it and the rivet on a jacket with insulation. I was sort of going for that look with the brass around mine. 
Henner, I'll talk to you Saturday around the same time as usual


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

After realizing how much I hated the look of the regner valve and that I needed to put a real throttle under that fake throttle, I decided that I also needed to get her up and running, but since the valve was going to change, it would not be worthwile to spend a lot of time on copper plumbing, so I ran some good ole silicon tubing. 
The image above is the test run. The oiler worked great, but I found out that I could not operate the train with the cab on because it was just too tight of a fit to get to all the valves I needed to access, so I took the cab off to test her. 








Today I woke up and made the tool above. It took my a couple of minutes to make (less time than it took me to put the cab back on). It worked perfectly, so I took her out for a run. I cleaned her up and posed her in the following two shots. 
















She still not done. I had to run her in reverse because I had setup the eccentrics in the normal position in anticipation of installing a new reversing valve and forgot to change it back. So I'll have to do that, or build my own reversing valve. 
I also need to make some more bracing for the lubricator. It flexes too much when I am taking the cap off to fill it. And, of course I need to make a valve for the throttle that can fit in the back head. I want to modify my Ruby pressure gauge too so that it looks more prototypical. And I need to put some doors on that coal bin and finish the roof and rework the reversing lever and add a johnson bar and etc.... etc... etc... but it runs, so I need to get started on Olomana and put Kauila in my Liviingroom on display and out of my shop where it tempts me to work on it. This will be my last updaet to this topic. I'll start a new one when I get back to work on her.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Whoops I just realized no one got to see the backhead close to finish so here it is without being plumbed in.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks for the continuing inspiration Richard! she looks great.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Rick 
I just came to your thread and some or all of this may have been discussed but here are a few things I could suggest 

The ruby valve chest gasket is not symetrical and maybe when you took it apart to paint, you reversed one if the gaskets 
I reciently did a 1/2" Ruby conversion for a friend and had leakage in one of the gaskets. I had to re-tighten the screws several times. 
Did you get all of the water out of the cylinders by going from forward to reverse several times 
The Ruby valve settings are critical. Check to make sure nothing slipped 

I use a filler valve fitting for air testing the whole system. Drain all of the water from the boiler and set your air compressor regulator to 30psi and go from there. 
You can now see if the safety is leaking (or anything else) and pick the engine up, turn it over fiddle with the sdjudtments etc.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Bill, 
I'm not sure where you are at in the thread. Its a very old one, but she runs now


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Eric, I'm flattered your Ruby projects is equally inspirational. I like the level of detail you are trying to achieve.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Since my topic with this video got destroyed, I'll just put the video here of the first forward run.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Sad, What happened to all the images I posted here? This is the status of my Ruby Conversion now.








But it won't be that way for long.








I've already started assembling all the parts necessary to do this.








A nice little 0 4 0 cab forward picking up sacks of sugar at what has been identified as the Kohala Sugar mill. This will be the 4th face lift for my Ruby, but the 1st that rebrands it as a totally different locomotive than Kauila. I've abandoned that idea in favor of building my own scratch Live Steamer that will look exactly like my 1:20.32 mock up pictured below.








This 1:20.32 model is all 3D prints except for the wooden beams, fasteners and some of the plumbing detail. Hopefully these images won't get deleted.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

rkapuaala said:


> Sad, What happened to all the images I posted here?


Something went horribly wrong with the old MyLargeScale "first class" image hosting service a few years ago, that caused the images from a lot of older discussion threads to get wiped out or mixed up with other random images. Everybody who was using it was affected. It was a one-time thing (hopefully anyway), so everything posted new since then should be ok.


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