# older lgb engines on ecos dcc system



## bigemike (Jan 18, 2021)

I have been struggling to understand how to get my function keys to operate on my new ecos
I believe I am running into a need for serial f1 commands to activate the engine.

I haven't been able to find many resources on how to set this up. 

I can find the engine through the ecos unit, it seems I have to turn the sound and motor functions off in order for ecos to talk to it. But once it finds it, it just says massoth decoder generic.

It works, I have 14 speed steps, but can't for the life of me get the sound functions to work.

Hope you guys can help. I have about 15 older mts engines and I would like to make them work to the fullest.
Thanks
Mike


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Decoders need to be set for the proper speed steps via CV 29. Entering 4 will give you DC and DCC at 14 speed steps. Entering 6 will give you 28/128 steps and DC operation. Add 32 to this and you will get long addressing via CV 17/18.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Does the ECOS system do serial functions? Methinks this is the issue.

Do you have the age/decoder model number of the decoders?

Greg


----------



## bigemike (Jan 18, 2021)

Dan,
I was under the impression that these older lgb models couldn't do more than 14 steps, 28 I am reading is possible with re-programming, is the reprogramming as easy as adjusting that cv value you mentioned?

Greg, 
The unit does offer an lgb mode here is what the manual says
"7.1.1.5. LGB®-Format extensions LGB® uses the DCC protocol for operating garden railways. The old Lokmaus® had only one function button „F1” besides the lighting button. But how could you switch so many functions with just one button? The „solution” was what became know as the „sequential function status mode”. The user knew if he for instance wanted to switch function F3, he had to press F1 three times in a row. The decoder counts the number of status changes and then switches the desired function. The disadvantage of this method is that functions with higher numbers (e.g. F8) take longer to respond, since several „on-off” commands have to be transmitted. Should you have any LGB® locos with such decoders and you want to run them with ECoS select the „LGB” format. It corresponds to the „DCC14” format, but the functions are activated sequentially in the background. "


I am thinking that this mode should allow me to activate the functions on the older engines
I have tried it, but not with great success, but that doesn't mean I am really doing it 100% right, I haven't had tons of time to work with it, but I will try to nail down some time to mess with it tommorow and report back.

Thanks for all your help guys


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

CV 7 has the decoder firmware revision level and the 14 speed step only decoders were the original Lenz and early 55021 decoders. All on board decoders (and 55027) will do 28 speed steps and later versions will do 128.


----------



## bigemike (Jan 18, 2021)

Dan Pierce said:


> CV 7 has the decoder firmware revision level and the 14 speed step only decoders were the original Lenz and early 55021 decoders. All on board decoders (and 55027) will do 28 speed steps and later versions will do 128.


i was told some of the trains could be reprogrammed for 28 steps. Most of my stuff is early. If I try 28 steps then the lights start blinking.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd stay with 14 steps on the decoders and the command station for now...

See if the lights and other standard features respond with the "LGB" format...

You have implied you have sound decoders, be sure to know beforehand what the function commands should be.

Greg


----------



## bigemike (Jan 18, 2021)

Ok thanks greg


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan, he was talking DCC sound, how can he be sure he has DCC controls for sound?


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

When setting the decoder to 28 speed steps, did you set the command station to do 28 steps on that address?


----------



## bigemike (Jan 18, 2021)

Dan I believe I only set the command station to 28 steps, I still don't fully understand how to set the decoders on these older loco to 28 steps. I had asked above if that is as simple as changing the CV value


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

CV 29 is used in the decoder for setting speed steps. These can be 14 or 28/128.
28/128 and DC operation is a 6. long address would be 38. If other options are neeeded you need to add the bit weight for that option (like railcom).


----------



## bigemike (Jan 18, 2021)

I have another question, I am looking at an esu detector for occupancy detection on my layout. are older lgb engines railcom compatible? or is that only on newer dcc stuff. I do know my one engine I built with loksound v5 is railcom.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, no offense, but you are a moving target.

Did you solve your issue about 14 vs 28 speed steps?
Did you verify you have sound, and if so, the decoder needs serial functions?

I would definitely get to understand this very basic stuff (and get it resolved/working), before jumping into block detection, and railcom.... 

Greg

p.s. no, old stuff did not have railcom


----------



## bigemike (Jan 18, 2021)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Wow, no offense, but you are a moving target.
> 
> Did you solve your issue about 14 vs 28 speed steps?
> Did you verify you have sound, and if so, the decoder needs serial functions?
> ...


No offense taken at all
I got the sound function and speed steps all figured out. Just didn’t realize how slow it all was until I hooked up an older mts system. 
But I have everything sorted out on that front. 
I did a complete tear down of my layout and I’m just wanted to get a few things figured out while I’m changing my track layout. 
And I move fast. It’s just my nature. I’m a manufacturing engineer by trade so it’s my job to keep things moving. I have a strong background with programming quads and doing first person video stuff. So I like my challenges. Thanks for all your help. You guys really helped me out


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, just so we all learn too, was the situation that you had decoders with sound that only responded to "serial functions"?

I don't know about the ESU detector personally, but it looks like the traditional current sensing type, this will have wiring challenges, and also it is limited to 3 amps per detection block, not good in G scale... I would look for other solutions.

RailComm is great, and works well, that would be a good technology to build on.

Greg


----------



## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

BigeMike - I carry the ESU DCC components if you need any of the ESU ECOS detectors. 
ESU & MASSOTH DCC Decoders| LGB Parts & Accessories |


----------



## bigemike (Jan 18, 2021)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> BigeMike - I carry the ESU DCC components if you need any of the ESU ECOS detectors.
> ESU & MASSOTH DCC Decoders| LGB Parts & Accessories |


You just sent me an order
Mike from Hamilton ohio


----------



## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

Okay, didn't realize it was you, Mike!


----------

