# Where to find Track Layout Ideas



## Jim in MO (Feb 28, 2010)

I have an area approximately 32 feet wide by 26 feet deep as viewed from a slightly below ground level porch that I want to use for a new layout. As the space moves out from the porch it also goes up in elevation. I have been trying to layout a track plan for this area and continue to have a hard time coming up with one I'm happy with. Any suggestions on where to go for ideas, samples, other track plans drawings, etc.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

It would help us if we knew what sort of railway you were trying to build. A railway using passenger locos must have a loop, a railway running freight -maybe. A NZ logging line needs different design ideas to that of a US line, similarly a Fiji sugar plantation line is different from that of one in Java -etc! A Southern African railway has a different "feel" to that of a South American -despite the fact that the locos will have been made in the same factories and exported there. It would also help if you gave us some idea of the "era" that you are trying to construct. I work in the time period 1880-1930 -as for me that is the most interesting time for railways. 

As to problems with elevation, that is easy to cope with, -my previous garden had a slope of 1 in 5 "across" and 1 in 7 "down" rising to 1 in 3 "up" at the bottom. A little spade work, and some woodwork produced a flat level surface for my locos to run on. 

The simple trick of laying a hosepipe on the ground and kicking it around until you have something that you like looking at over the course of a few days -is often the best ploy. 

regards 

ralph


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## Jim in MO (Feb 28, 2010)

The goals of the new layout AT THIS TIME are more for watching the trains as opposed to operations. More involved in the garden and building of structures, bridges, buildings and such. I also want continuous running for 2 trains at once, without oversight. 

We will be running narrow gauge with a lake and logging operation (at this time) and modeling in the 1930 to 50’s

I want the flexibility for some amount of operations, diesel trains, passenger service and other pursuits as time goes on. I don’t want the layout to keep me from possibly pursuing other parts of this hobby as time goes on if my desires or wants change and grow over time. 

The site is in south central Missouri and will have to be built on the ground. I’m in the Ozarks and a level site is not a possibility, the site will require me to deal with 4 inch grades built into the final hill side design.

What I was hoping to find was ANY source for plans of actual garden railroads. Railroads that someone has been built and work. Finding that for every other scale is easy. I have read through multiple books and looked at many plans on-line but they don’t necessarily transfer to the garden very well. 

I realize everyone’s property is different so every layout is very different. Sites with pictures of someone’s layout abound but most of the time there won’t be a drawing of the track layout. It makes it impossible to get a feel for the overall project. Just looking for samples to look at to help spur the brain to come up with ideas for my yard. Overall (for a lot of reasons I won’t go into here) I have one shot at getting it mostly right because there won’t be an opportunity for major changes in the track layout down the road.

Who knows a separate layout drawing section on a railroad forum where members could post theirs might someday happen!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim, several points: 

First, you need to look at your layout not "at this time", but where you want it to eventually "be". Then you can design a phased approach to building it. Trust me, building it wrong first will be a disaster, many people have completely rebuilt or given up when massive changes are needed later. Don't do this. 

Sounds like you want to get going right away. You should read this and other forums and learn some of the do's and don'ts from others. I read forums for 4 years before I did anything. So far I have not made any large mistakes, because I learned a lot of what not to do. We can't put all of this in our answers... 

Yes, you won't find books with pre-made large scale layouts... the extra dimension of grades makes a big difference. Virtually all large-scale layouts are constrained in size just because they use lots of real estate. 

So, I would do a lot more reading and learning. It will take a while. I have a beginner's FAQ section and so do many excellent web sites, such as George Schreyer's. 

Read, read, read. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I made a lot of mistakes with mine but the only one who notices is me--everybody else who sees it is delighted. 

If your layout has elevated sections, where it's knee level or waist level, you will love it and so will every one else. There are a a couple fantastic example of RRs built on hills: 

Ray Dunakin's In-Ko Pah RR



Richard Weatherby's Maryland Central RR


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Jim 
You already have a leg up on most of the garden RR guys with your elevation changes whereas many need to haul in tons of dirt to build a mountain you already have it. Don't look at it as a negative. The challenge is to build a functioning RR that can handle the grade elevation changes. I had the same issue with my yard. The lowest spot is 4-5 feet different to the highest. Ralph and Greg both have great ideas for you and you are right that each layout is different. Look at what you want to do.Where you want the train to go and how you will conquer the landscape. Being outside is JUST like planning and engineering for a REAL RR. 
Read the forum. ASk questions. Pick up a copy of Garden Railways for some inspiration and look to books about the subject such as "How to design and build you garden Railway" by Jack Verducci. 
I would put in a loop of track and see where it takes you. Get a feel for the train and track and playing in the dirt. Most of us have changed our layouts and expanded them over time so getting it "right" the first time may not be as fun. 
Good luck 
Todd


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

First thing to do is just get going!! Just start laying track, and see where it takes you. You can always alter,change, repair,and adjust as you go, and or as your thoughts or idears change!!! If you wait for the perfect plan to come across to your mind or over your computer, or desk, you'll never get started!! Just change or alter as you go. Just remember what I've said on here time and again use 10ft curves as the minimum and bigger if you can you won't be disappointed!! Look at you tube under garden railroad, and also follow links on here and other sites to see what others have done. Adapt or take parts you like from all of em and intertwine them into your dreams or your actual layout!! Regal


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Well since you asked for drawings I suppose I should supply you with these:

The first one is the original layout that I had at the bottom of my garden. This was a 16mm scale layout running on 32mm gauge track -something that is very common here in the UK.










The curves are 3 feet 6inch radius and 4 feet radius -the area of the layout was 25 feet square.The next drawing shows the layout that I am currently building. This will be a circum garden loop for continuous running with two tracks of 32mm (gauge 0) and 63.5mm (gauge 3).I intend to have locos running on it by the end of 2010 -this will be three years since we moved in here...The track layout also to some extent dictates the type of locomotive that you will be able to run. In the first layout due to the local geology I had to build articulated locomotives, whilst at my new home (on top of a volcano) I can indulge in double bogied locomotives on the relative flat area of the volcanic crater. The new garden is amazingly flat -only a few metres drop here and there...regardsralph


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Ralph, 
Will the new layout be on the ground or will it be elevated? 
I'm puzzling things out for an outdoor layout now too. 
Dave


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Continuous running = loops or reversing units. Plenty of room for both. Plenty of room for a huge trestle (cubic $$ or lots of time), meandering curves, a water feature, or???.... 

Best bet? get some back issues of Garden Railways and just browse the pictures. Pick what features/ideas that you love and make a list (actually 2 lists: MUST have, and LIKE to have) then sit down with paper and pencil and doodle. Make about 3 different plans, put them in a drawer and go do something else, then come back after a couple days and peruse them again. Do try to keep it realistically within your budget and abilitiies, it helps. 

Keep sifting and distilling ideas until you have a clear picture in your mind. Once you have your vision write/draw it all out. This will be your master plan. Revise it as needed, or as money or other conditions require. A temporary loop in the grass or on the patio will keep your interest level up and give you a jumping off point from which to dream. 

Take your time, building a nice model RR is as much a journey as a destination... Along the way you'll learn lots of new skills, and build up faith in yourself. Sound a bit Zen? Maybe. But it works.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Best place to get ideas for a new layout? Right here on MLS! Look around and see what others have done, see what strikes your fancy, and pick methods and ideas that suit you. This summer, get some track on the ground for playing trains. Things will grow from there.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

David,

The new layout will be at ground level at the house end of the garden (the bottom of the drawing) raising to circa 55cm above ground level at the summer house end (top of drawing). The plan is for the railway to loop around the back of the summer house and for people to sit there in the shade and be entertained by the vanishing and re-appearence of the locos. The top straight section runs parallel to her rockery and there will be a "koi" bridge over the tracks.

regards

ralph


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Lot of good ideas here so just read and read you'll get there. Later RJD


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## Jim in MO (Feb 28, 2010)

Looks like I gave the idea that I just started thinking about all of this. The planning phase has been in the works for over 2 years. I have spent that time on various forums and private sites trying to soak up all that I can. I have subscribed to GR magazine for over 2 years now and have been purchasing track, trains, etc as money and bargains have allowed. Thru all of this I have picked up alot of ideas and this spring we will break ground. 

Just as with some of the posts here answering my question we have seen a number of layout drawings of actual garden railroad installations. My real question was whether drawing such as these can be found in one location. You find one or two in any magazine and run across one on a forum thread at times but no grouping where you could look and compare which provides ideas for things you may not have thought of before. 

Maybe the solution is for a location for people to post diagrams with a little basic size info, etc. on their layout. Just like you see now with pictures being posted in one location but instead just layout drawing. I think it would be great for both new and experienced people a like and would generate many new ideas for others to use.

In the mean time thanks to all who took the time to post here with all the good information.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim

Don't know if you've ran across the following site, but if not maybe it'll give you some ideas.

Large Scale Track Plans[/b]


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

here's what I used to have...

Mark I



























Mark II





























Mark III




























And a temp layout we hope to do at our antique machinery club come spring 










Honestly? I haven't even thought about a track plan for my new outside layout yet. Probably be 2 partially overlapping loops with a couple sidings. Sometimes simplicity has it's own beauty.


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## Jim in MO (Feb 28, 2010)

Posted By SteveC on 28 Feb 2010 02:03 PM 
Jim

Don't know if you've ran across the following site, but if not maybe it'll give you some ideas.

Large Scale Track Plans[/b] 
Good site, thanks Steve

Something like this site's layout drawings is what I am talking about but most of these are just converted O scale drawings. It would be great to have drawings of actual layout that have been built. Allow you to look at what real people are doing.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Jim, 

get your behind out in the garden, put down an oval of track - and let a train run. 
take a chair and watch your train. just watch it. 
sooner or later you will think, what might be nice to add - and where. do it. 
then sit down and watch again. 
let it grow naturally. 

nobody can find the exact right layout for you, but you yourself. 

just one exeption: if you are married, and your wife mentions something, she woud like to see - just do it! (that could help much on future budged-questions)


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## pryzby1963 (Feb 16, 2008)

Jim,

One of the thrills in large scale is the individuality of your railroad layout. Unless you want to build an exact replica of someone else layout, you should start with a part of railroad that made you want to start building ASAP. Start laying that track where YOU think it will look best. Take the next strong idea, add it on to the first piece. So on and so on. At some point you may want to change or move a component, but so what. It is your layout. I had a friend tell me when I got started with my layout, that I never will be done. He was correct. I started like you did reading magazines, touring websites and sketching layouts. My layout today has been modified several times but is still has components of my original dreams. So go for it, start laying track as soon as the weather here in MO warms up and the snow is gone.

Gross Bahn Bob


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Building a layout on a hillside can be challenging but also very rewarding! As someone else pointed out, it gives you a leg up on building mountains -- and you can create some very interesting and exciting scenes.

Here's my trackplan. It's basically a big dogbone loop folded into an overlapping Z. 

Trackplan2.jpg[/b] 

(Image exceeds 800 pixels in width changed to link, SteveC)[/i]


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

Hey, Jim, 
Just a thought on the theme. Don't try to copy another layout. Your area will not be exactly like someone else's area. Even on indoor layouts they all vary in shape, size and complexity. Bring in a person who has already built theirs and you will gain valuable information on the do's and dont's. 

Something that I have thought of doing, before even buying track or accessories, is laying down an outline in the yard. A long rope, garden hoses hooked together, whatever you have to make wide 10' and 20' diam. curves. As you do this, you will see what challenges you will be faced with and come with solutions for those challenges. Elevations will change and barriers will show thier ugly heads. But all you'll have to do is move the rope until it fits your specific area. Much easier than changing track. Then start out building in an easier section and work your way to the challenging sections. 

Your layout will bring you the most satisfaction if YOU do the brain-and-brawn parts yourself.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Another approach is a bit more mental, as I outline in my FAQs, sit back and determine what you want. You want 2 trains running with no supervision? Then sketch up a couple of loops... 

You want to run larger locomotives? Try drawing 10 foot diameter circles. 

Think and write down what your goals are for your "dream layout"... 

Regards, Greg


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

32 x 26 feet is not really much space for 45mm track. In HO sale, this would be 8 x 6' 6"- Which is very small. 

The Huntsville line in Canada might be a suitable prototype. http://www.portageflyer.org/ 
It was less tha a mile long and never had more than 2 locos and 5 car. 

Have Fun 

Juergen / Fritz


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I did mine different from anyone else on the forum. I went to the garden and just started building track with no plan in mind other than the track would somehow have to come back around where it started so I could have continuous running. I sort of let the terrain dictate and whatever whims I had as I was building. No plan at all. Call it anarchism if you like.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Back to planning: 

This is a relatively small space if you want larger locos. You will need to plan a bit. 

If you are running 4' diameter curves and tiny locos, you can go to town. 

Depends on what your goals are. 

The goals from the OP are: 

Watching more than operation (so continuous unattended running) 
30's to 50' time range 
Narrow gauge (assume 1:20.3), Logging trains at first 
BUT 
the ability to run diesels and passenger trains later 
the ability to run some operations later 
built on ground (but slopes may require elevating some parts to minimize grades) 


The OP says he has been planning for 2 years, so maybe we can get some details of this, and also of what has been purchased in track (type and diameters) and locomotives and rolling stock. 

So, I'd like to verify the list with Jim, and to hear some of the details from the above sentence. 

My questions so far: 

1. how many trains will be running unattended at the same time. 
2. any track vs. battery decisions 
3. track type already purchased 
4. track curvatures already purchased 
5. locomotives already purchased (just representative) 
6. rolling stock already purchased (just representative) 
7. next loco desired 
8. description of increase in slope from one side to another in both width and depth. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jim in MO (Feb 28, 2010)

My goal for asking the initial question was never expecting to find a layout that I would be able to copy and place in my yard. My hope was to get additional ideas based on what other people have done successfully. A perfect example is after Ray Dunakin posted the info on his layout here and how he approached his hillside issues I now have some new ideas that I am already trying to work into my plan. Because I am confined to a smaller space and have the challenge of dealing with elevation changes I know I am somewhat limited in what I can do but I want to try and maximize what I have. I fully expect my layout will included many different ideas that I have accumulated from all over. I envy the folks who have 10 acres to play with, you can do just about anything you desire but us, real estate challenged guys have to plan in a little more detail. 

Now for Greg’s questions:

1. how many trains will be running unattended at the same time. 2
2. any track vs. battery decisions Track power using AC’s Revolution Train Engineer
3. track type already purchased AC’s Stainless Steel
4. track curvatures already purchased 9-foot, 11-foot & 20-foot (also plan to use a rail bender to fine tune curves as needed)
5. locomotives already purchased (just representative) Bachman Annie
6. rolling stock already purchased (just representative) Bachman misc.
7. next loco desired still dreaming
8. description of increase in slope from one side to another in both width and depth. The porch is 32 feet long and I will be going out 26 feet from the porch. The left side rises 5 inches in 13 feet & 9 inches overall. The right side rises 16 inches in the first 13 feet and 21 inches overall.

9 Inches 21 Inches


5 Inches 16 Inches


0 Porch 0


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the answers Jim, and I got your "drift" from your initial posts. I never thought you wanted a layout to copy, I got your meaning just as you explained it again. 

So, one thing I would suggest is that you look at 2 loops of track, that can be "set up" to connect into one longer "twice around" loop. It's a concept from way back, but a good one! 

Give the space you have, you want to have a number of loops to get more length, so one way is large overlapping ovals, but that's a little boring. 

Another way is to have something like an "E" where the ends of the "E" are loops... but this would force you into pretty small radius curves. 

I would look at something like two levels, sort of a folded dogbone on the bottom and a more open oval with some curves on the top. The grades on the left side are manageable. The grade to the right is pretty steep, so maybe the track is up at that level, and you have a trestle with a loop coming towards your patio. 

Maybe from the right side to the left, you can run a helix to get back down. You could incorporate trestles and tunnels for interest. 

Sounds like you have picked a good track for track power (I use track power and Aristo stainless). The Revo will serve you well, and is inexpensive and has a lot of features. 

Regards, Greg


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