# Operations Clinic for 2012 NGRC



## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

I am starting to develop an operations clinic for the 2012 National Garden Railway Convention.

I have experience operating on HO scale layouts that use car cards and switch lists. I started operating my large scale switching layout with a modified car card system. I switched to the free JMRI operations module after I memorized all of the moves that my car card system allowed. I would like to focus primarily on the JMRI operations module, but some introductory material on operations and operating systems may be necessary or desirable.

What do garden railroaders, who may not be familiar with operations, need to know about operations and operating systems? What do they need to know about the JMRI operations module?

Bert Lattan


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Most need to know how many steps to the refrigerator and back again to their favor viewing chair. And how many cans does it hold.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By blattan on 16 Jul 2011 01:43 PM 
What do they need to know about the JMRI operations module?

Bert Lattan



I would start with the assumption that they (like me) don't have a clue what a "JMRI operations module" is. 

Seriously.

Don't take anything for granted because if they already knew about it they would not need to go to your clinic and everyone would lose out.

If you make it too basic they might become bored and lose interest and if you make it too complicated you might turn them off. A lot of questions is usually a good indication they are interested and paying attention while no questions probably means you need to change something. You can never please everyone.

Good luck,

Jerry


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

An interesting topic for a clinic. A good one. I just wonder how many folks actually run with operations in mind. You would no doubt get more folks interested in switching and operations. It would be a good poll topic (Jerry).

I have never heard of JMRI operations either. Card systems, etc, in HO, yes. I always thought the systems with tacks or markers on tops of the cars were kind of funky looking, but they do let you play the game.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 16 Jul 2011 05:21 PM 
It would be a good poll topic (Jerry). 



Funny you should mention that Del.

I was thinking about posting something I just read but not in a poll.

*Here it is. See what you think.*
http://www.mylargescale.com/tabid/5...fault.aspx


*Bert, *

*I have no idea how this compares with the system you are referring to but perhaps you could compare them and let us know what you think. I have no opinion. I just happened to read this yesterday (really) so it was on my mind when I saw this topic. *

I have a tiny bit of HO but I have only ever run it on someone else's layout and I don't know what his system is called. It has been a LONG time since I last ran on it.

Its funny how things sometimes happen.

Jerry


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Personally I do not know of many people that operate. For myself I like to run the trains round and round while I am either pruning,cleaning, building or fixing something.

If I drank alcohol I would also be sitting watching the trains drinking and like Marty stated, keep an eye on my cooller or the refreg. and know the distance of BOTH! 

I like to make life simple and "Keep It Simple Stupid"!









But thats' me!

Bubba


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I wrote something similar on the Big Trains Listserv, but it bears repeating for the purposes of the discussion here... 

If you've seen the cult classic "Mars Attacks," then you know the imagery of the martians' heads exploding in their space suits. I'm rather afraid throwing computer-generated switch lists and software at the average garden railroader (even if they're passively interested in prototype operations) would yield similar results. I think it far better to leave the special effects to Chris Walas. 

If you're going to do a clinic on operations, assume the average garden railroader knows very little about what the prototype does, or how to mimic that in the garden. I've given operations demonstrations over the years, and it's always something of an eye-opener watching people sit there and ponder how to move cars from one point to another. I recently finished a series on prototype operations for my column in GR, and didn't really even cover computerized switch lists or anything that complex, except to mention that they're available if you're that intense about things. 

Later, 

K


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

This is how we do it on the Tortoise & Lizard Bash. There are no markers necessary on any of the railcars and no waybills. Everyone has a schedule to follow. This shows the tower's schedule. The tower handles turnouts and blocks and three engineers work various parts ofthe railroad.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

The person with the most experience in running a largescale railroad for operators is Dave Goodson (TOC). His Friday night sessions are legendary and he's been doing it for over a decade.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Fred Mills and the Ottawa bunch have operations sessions every Saturday in season. In fact the "American Invasion" is happening this weekend in Fred's back yard. 
Each engineer has a brakeman to assist with a dispatcher and yard masters in several locations connected to the participants by radio. 
It was a new experience for me, using live steam to boot. Lots of pics at www.ovgrs.org 
Number one for me for a clinic would be show how to make it fun. 
Tom


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

We have been doing ""operations"" twice a year on Ric Goldings Kaskaskia Railroad Layout in illinois, for about the past 9 years, or so... It's basically run like an actual railroad.... We have a dispatcher, and we use a computer generated program called ""Railop"".. We run for a full weekend both sat & sun afternoon... Usually handle between 15 and 20 trains running each day... We run with 2-man crews per train... Each train is assigned by the dispatcher, and engineers/conductors are given their switch lists and radios for communication with the dispatcher... Each station along the line is considered a ""Block"", and engineers/conductors are required to call for permission to enter the next block.. There are 2 major ""railyard"" areas, and we have ""Yardmasters"" that handle these 2 locations.. 

The Railop program can automatically make up trains, and assigned the cars and pick & set-outs along the line... However, there is a considerable amount of thought and preperation needed prior to using Railop.. One needs to ""label"" their railroad such as naming the sidings to be served, listing all their freight cars into the program, listing all their engines, determing the routes of their trains and listing them into the program... 

I also operate on an HO layout on most Friday nights, and that railroad uses carcards... My preferrence is using Railop, because, the train schedule shows me what cars are dropped off and picked up at each location, and tells me how many cars I should have in the train coming out of the stop.. 

I have a tendency to agree, that most folks in large scale railroading are not into the "Operations" side of the hobby...


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Bert, don't get discouraged. I didn't think I had any interest in doing "operations" in any scale until I spent an afternoon at Ric Golding's watching other guys having a blast doing relatively simple operations on his outdoor layout. I, along with 15 other guys/gals, now look forward to his semi-annual sessions. If you can keep the topic to this degree of simplicity, I think you will have a good level of interest.


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

I am not familiar with the operating system described in the article that Jerry posted in Railroad Operations. It is an interesting variation of the car card & waybill system that many car card operators in the smaller scales use today. 

I got interested in operating systems when I tired of running around in circles. The system that I used before I changed to the JMRI operations switchlist system was also a variation. It combined the car data (i.e. the car ID, say boxcar CNW 683) and the waybill data (i.e. where the car is going, say Acme Industries) on one card with two locations, my staging yard representing a distant shipper/receiver and an industry. 

The comments in this thread confirm my belief that most garden railroaders are not familiar with the operating ideas that have evolved in the smaller scales. A clinic on operations, even an introductory clinic, may be premature... 

Bert


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By blattan on 17 Jul 2011 10:37 AM 

The comments in this thread confirm my belief that most garden railroaders are not familiar with the operating ideas that have evolved in the smaller scales. A clinic on operations, even an introductory clinic, may be premature... 

Bert 


Hi Bert,

I respectfully disagree. I have tried off and on for years to come up with a working operations method but I have come to the conclusion (perhaps incorrect) that to a large extent operations has had its greatest success with relatively large club operations (something my limited experience tends to support in what I have seen in HO).

A good fire needs both kindling and a source of ignition. There may be a lot of potential for operations (especially to be found at a national show) but that spark is still needed to get the fire going and it can best come from someone who has experience with what he is presenting.

MLS is a very small portion of the large scale community (as are all forums) so I would caution against coming to any conclusions (about anything) based on such a small sample of the hobby.

I for one hope that you will go ahead with your clinic and if I go to the show you will find me at your clinic.

Jerry


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

Bert, 

I agree with Jerry... I think it's time for a clinic on ""operations""... Operations does not have to be a large extensive layout.... A simple operations could be done with a passing siding and one or two industrial sidings.... The passing siding could be considered the ""Freight yard""... Cars picked up at the ""Freight yard"", and delivered to the industries... a couple more cars placed on the ""Freight yard"" tracks and they git picked up, and swapped out with the cars in the industrial sidings... It's nothing ellaborate, but gives a purpose for the railroad.... Done on a loop, you could say that the sidings are 3 loops apart.. 

I think this type of clinic would be great for the hobby.... Of course, it's not for everyone, but neither is 1/20.2 scale for everyone, nor 1/22.5, nor 1/24th, nor 1/29th, nor 1/32nd... All attendees would have to determine is this is their ""Cup of tea"", but they won't know about it, if noone tells them.... 

I say go for it, and best of luck with it....


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, You have me confused. Why should he worry how many cans his viewing chair holds? (Just could not resist GRIN). 

As far as a clinic, I think you should show a very simple system to get people started, maybe a car forwarding system. Then finish with a more "realistic" system. Just get them started moving cars with a purpose, then for those interested show the more advanced stuff. The problem is they get overwhelmed with the set up and record keeping and do not give it a try. 

Just my opinion.


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## Fred (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree, a clinic on operations might attract more people than you might think. I would sit in to hear what others might have to say. On my old HO basement layout 6-8 guys came over a regular basis for over 25 years for an operating session using color-coded cards. I now use the same system on my outdoor railroad even though only 5-6 trains operate as compared to the 24 or more than use to operate on the HO railroad. I find that 'operation" helps keep my interest in the railroad high.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The JMRI is a good place to start, since the "free" part of the software is often a big part of people being willing to try something out. 

I use JMRI and many of my friends are engineers and not at all afraid of running a computer. 

Starting out with the fundamental needs for operations, and showing how simple it is to enable those with JMRI or another system is where I would begin. A little background on why operations, a little theory of how it works, and a little of actual use of JMRI. 

Like most "computer systems", people can become intimidated if presented with the "whole enchilada" at first. Throw out some appetizers! 

Operations, even at a limited level, can be an entirely new avenue of enjoyment. 


Regards, Greg


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

For a basic operations session you don't need computers, or a program, or car cards.... All you have to do is swap Like cars for like cars... a boxcar for a boxcar, a reefer for a reefer, a flatcar for a flatcar, etc.etc...


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