# need some advise on NCE use with Bridewerks



## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Hi All,

I am a new member and this is my first post. finally i am transitioning from a O scale to G scale. This seems to be totally a new ball game and i am finding it very confusing. i am building a garden layout and need some help. i am about to finish the track work. its two independent tracks with electrical wiring. now as the next step i have to buy a transformer and a locomotive. i need something to control the train remotely. initially i was interested in Train Engineer but was told that they went out of business. So then a few calls to Charles to and traintek suggested the following configuration

Locomotive: J1 Hudson Usa trains, MTH PS3 Diesel

Transformer: BW-10250 MAGNUM 20 AMP 2-TRK CONTROLLER 

DCC: NCE PH-10R 10 Amp Radio DCC Starter Set 
i was reading about NCE and the online manual said that it can take only take AC as input whereas traintek guys told me that it can take DC as well and Bridgewerks will work just fine. brigewerks was suggested by many folks, its the best available to have a peace of mind and gives the option of running conventional as and when needed.

It will be great if someone can confirm that this will work. greatly appreciate your help here.

Thanks
Puclot


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Do you want remote control to the track or separate receivers and control in each engine? I use the Bridgewerks remote controller UR-15 to control track voltage and polarity. This unit plugs into the line between the power supply and the track. I used to use an Aristo Train Engineer between the power supply and the track. I much prefer the Bridgewerks unit.The small size of the Bridgewerks hand controller is a real plus compared the size of the TE controller. The UR-15 has good range. I can control the train from inside the house. Chuck


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

my basic need is to control the speed and direction through remote but its nice to be able to control the bell, whistle and lights as well.

i was looking at UR-15 as well and it was expensive as well like 350 dollars plus i think its just for one track and i need 2 of them for two tracks. so the cost becomes same as the NCE but yes i agree with the size


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I chose the remote that goes between the power supply and the track because I have been in the hobby for over 30 years and couldn't afford to put remotes in all my engines. The UR-15 allows me to put any engine on the track and run it remotely. My recommendation is to make contact with G Gaugers in your area and talk to them and see what they use and why. As you said it is confusing. You will get excellent information here, but one to one with people in your local area will help you make a better choice for now and your future needs. 

Bells and whistles can be activated by track magnets. Lights are a different story.

My prime power is analog DC with the UR-15. I do have 4 engines equipped with battery and RC. At home I usually run on track power. I have the battery and RC so that I can run as a guest on any railroad out there, regardless of what power setup the host is using.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Puclot,

That (expensive!!) Bridge Works unit controls raw track power to your (unmodified) DC locos, with or without the NCE system.

The NCE system, base on DCC control, needs a power supply that costs about 1/10th of the above. Check out the Meanwell S-320-27, it's about $70:
http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_693581_-1

So... the first question is whether you're using "raw" DC control, or DCC? The latter allows you to remotely control all those things you and Chuck have been discussing. 

BUT, the main benefit of DCC is, of course, allowing you to discretely "talk to" and control different loco's, on the same track, without any wiring heroics. 

I encourage you to visit 
http://www.elmassian.com/dcc

Best regards, and keep posting, and what's your name? 

Cliff


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks for the all the great advise. My name is Harsh

what i understood was that

bridgewerks cant feed DCC. 

i will have to get a diff one for DCC. traintek advised me for Digitrax PS2012 20 Amp DCC Power Supply

i dont need both, bridgewerks and NEC. DCC seems better for me as even in O gauge i decided with Legacy and DCS controller and i really like the fact that me and my son could play with the bell and whistle irrespective of the train position.

i hope i got it right, any other thing i need to know?

Thanks again


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Before getting power, choose which DCC system you are going to get (if DCC was your choice) as systems differ in the power requirements. 
My old Zimo uses AC input and is 8 amps. 
SO, I just used 2 12 volt transformers wired in series for 24 volts. 
Newer Zimo uses DC and the Meanwell supplies are great for that. 
Some systems take both AC and DC inputs. LGB has a 5 amp limit, so I used a 6.5 amp supply on mine.


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Before getting power, choose which DCC system you are going to get (if DCC was your choice) as systems differ in the power requirements. 

I am getting the NCE power house 10 Amp system as i was told that this is the simplest and have most power as in intend to run Hudson with 10 lighted passenger car on one of the tracks


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

The Meanwell 10 amp unit I mentioned is used by a number of folks with the NCE 10 amp. Lots cheaper.


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

I have three more questions.

1) if i am buying the NCE PH-10R 10 Amp Radio DCC Starter Set it comes with the D408SR Decoder and not the NCE-D808SR. will this be a issue with J1 Hudson USA trains. if so, shall i not get the starter set and get the components separately. i am trying to get the right components and sometimes bundling does not give the best components bundled together. since this is a one time buy, i just need to get the right ones even if i have to pay a little extra

2) i have two independent tracks and they are connected to each other through X and are insulated at X, the traintek folks advised me to buy another NCE- B 110 10 Amp booster for this second track and plug it to the same command station and control the locomotives on both the tracks with the same handheld controller, does this make sense?

3) if i buy a diesel from USA train, do i have to install the phoenix sound system and the D408SR/D808SR for DCC. Or are there decoders which also has sound along with DCC?

Thanks
Harsh


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Harsh, 

1) If you don't need the D408SR now, you'll probably need it for a smaller loco in the future. I've got mine (the one that came with the set) in an LGB mogul, and it works great. But you're right, look for the best deal. I got mine from Litchfield Station. 
http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=999003201&cat=292&page=1 

2) Sounds like you are saying that each loco (and any lighted cars) will draw more than 5 amps, so you can't run two such trains from the same 10 amp booster, and therefore need two independent power districts / loops for them to run on. Are you sure about that power consumption though? Seems really high, but I only run smaller locos so I don't know. Otherwise, yes, a single command station can manage multiple boosters. 

3) I'll defer to others having a lot more experience on this one. But yes, for example, check out the QSI boards: http://www.qsisolutions.com/products/index.html 

Cliff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff, I just checked my USAt SD70Mac. With sound, Phoenix, no smoke it pulls between 1.5 and 2 amps on my layout. There is one short section with a 4% grade. Pulling 12 two bay hoppers, metal wheels and a USAt caboose (lighted) it pulls between 2.5 and 3 amps. I don't know the current draw on the USAt streamliners. 

Chuck 

Note added:

I just took out three USAt streamliners, combine, dome, and observation and measured the current with them on the track. The current draw for the three cars is 1.5 amps, 0.5/car. A 10 car train would pull 5 amps not counting the engine.

Therefore, a single power supply with 10 amps output would not work for two trains, unless the second train was small, unlighted, and a single motor engine.

I have to confess that I was surprised by the draw. I never would of thought that each car would pull that much.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Yeah Chuck, my unmodified Aristo passenger cars pull a lot as well -- not that high, but significant. Greg E. and others often warned about that... 

Guess that explains the significance of LED lighting conversions! So assuming Harsh did convert lighting to LED, from your testing it sounds like he'd be fine with the one booster / power supply, at least for now. 

And Harsh, it's not difficult to add the second power district (PS / booster) later, if the need should arise. 

Cliff


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Zimo makes an all in one decoder, motor, light, sound, smoke control. 

For the Hudson, look at the downloadable PDF at zimo.at for the MX695 series. 

I installed one in a hudson and made the smoke unit puff with the chuff.


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks Guys for all the great feedback.

I was sure that now i know what to buy, NCE 10 A Radio system. but then last night i was browsing some LGB locomotives and then i came across new MTS and new Zimo MX10 and Massoth Navigator systems. i have read about these in the past and read a lot since yesterday and now i am again thoroughly confused that what shall i get. all of these now have wireless systems and seems to be more compact than NCE. they are expensive but in the long run i think usability of functions and user friendly controls go a long way including internet connectivity for scalability. though having these European systems will also make it difficult to get the decoders installed in USA trains. i asked my hobby shop person that does he know someone who can install a decoder and he said he does not know. he has his shop for the last 30 years and serve a radius of 30 miles.

the same thing happened when i started O gauge but it was simple there, Lionel or MTH and i bough both, but in G scale it seems like a ocean and i dont know what to do.
i live in bay area and i did go to my local hobby shops and none of them have any info on these. the guys who are helping me do layout are purely conventional guys and have heard vaguely about NCE. sometimes i think the limiting factor is the information available and most of the hobby shops (at least where i live) dont do a good job to get people interested and that's one of the reasons, 3 such shops closed in the recent years.
i am still lost and dont know how to proceed. please help me in making a decision if you can.

Thanks
Harsh


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

It's great that you're taking the time to puzzle all this through, Harsh. I hope you can continue to enjoy the investigation, and let it take whatever time it needs to take.


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Actually time is something which i am short of, at the moment 

my track work and wiring is being done by other guys and its essential for me to have a system to check it out. plus my kids are not able to use backyard since last 6 months because of this project. it progressed slowly. so i have to get it kick started. starting conventional is also not cheap as its about 1200 the way i wanted it. so i need a system to decide and buy right away so that i can get it in 2 weeks.

i was going with NEC radio but now after reading massoth and zimo, i really liked the zimo new controller. it may feel overkill for some but i really liked it. its not available until spring. so the only option available is to me is buy NEC now and wait for Zimo to come out with their new system and eventually upgrade. any thoughts on this new direction or any suggestions ?


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I would just caution you that they have been promising that new Zimo system for years now...sure it will be very nice but if your timeline is important just be careful... 
Were you able to get your hands on an actual Zimo controller to test or maybe one of the Massoth Navigators? As far as your comment about difficulty putting the European decoders in US trains...they shouldn't be any more difficult than any other make and usually have many more features. I usually pick my decoder based on the particular sound I like best. I run an LGB MTSIII system with Massoth Navigators (love the dial type throttle), and have a mix of LGB, Massoth and Zimo decoders. As far as NCE I'm sure it would do the job for you too, I just personally don't like the throttle. That system has been pushed on MLS a lot in the past because one of the mega-posters is buddies with them. As you say, not as many people are familiar with the European brands but once they find out how nice they are, in the long term they don't mind spending a little more money. It's like a good tool--you appreciate it every time you pick it up--that's how I feel about the Massoth navigator. In our club almost everyone who is DCC runs Massoth--it's robust and proven. 
Just keep reading and eventually you should be able to hone in an system that fits you best. It also depends how much you like the technical side of the hobby. If you like to be able to have absolute control over everything with lots of options, I can see why you are leaning towards Zimo and Massoth because they are nice systems. 

Keith


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

my thought was to buy NEC now which is about $1000. use it for some time and when new zimo is available , sell the NEC and buy Zimo. unfortunately none of my local hobby shops carry these, so having a feel is impossible for me. i am just relying on this forum and other online information. i am sure if i had that option available, i would have decided by now. good to know that local clubs use massoth as well and you are right NEC seems too bulky configuration 

as of now, i am thinking, if i shall buy massoth right now and be happy with it or buy NEC now and upgrade to Zimo as soon as its available. any tips?


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

My feeling is that Massoth's strength is in their central station and navigator remote, while Zimo's strength is in their decoders. So in my mind at least, the best combination (at this point in time anyway) is Massoth system with either Massoth, Zimo, or ESU decoders. If you really have your heart set on the Zimo at the end of the day, though, then you need to think about resale of the first system you get too...arggh...there's no end to it!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

When programing decoders, the Zimo is extremely easy to use for reads and writes. 
OTH, My friend with a Masssoth system has to change menus to go between reads and writes. 
SO, I can reprogram a CV instantly, just read it and then write it, no key changes needed other than entering the new CV data and hitting enter. 
Since I program several decoders every week, this is very handy, esp if it is a customer with issues. 
Not saying the Massoth is bad, just different and if running trains all day, both systems work great. 
Also, be sure to note that the Zimo does direct addressing of all CV's. 
Older systems did not do this and several key strokes were needed to change CV's.


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

When programing decoders, the Zimo is extremely easy to use for reads and writes. 

SO, I can reprogram a CV instantly, just read it and then write it, no key changes needed other than entering the new CV data and hitting enter. 


This is good info and i am looking for something simple. i also do a little bit of photography and the same logic lies there, that in pro cameras and consumer cameras is that how fast you can reach to setting, in pro cameras you hit a button and is done, in consumer cameras, you have to navigate through menus to achieve the same thing

. 

Also, be sure to note that the Zimo does direct addressing of all CV's. 
Older systems did not do this and several key strokes were needed to change CV's.
Does Massoth also do direct addressing?


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

As Dan mentions, it comes down to personal preference--they each have their strengths and weaknesses. As I do most of my initial decoder programming and setup using either the LGB or Massoth software on the computer, setting CV's on the handheld is not something that needs to be done very often. Maybe for the odd tweaking and fine tuning but it's not something I find myself doing much, and when I do I find it very intuitive.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Note to people wanting more info on systems, Train-Li will bring a Zimo system to York for the ECLSTS at the end of March, and be doing demos. 
I would hope other vendors would do the same, I know the sound people bring their goods and demo them (Phoenix, Dallee for 2).


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks for all the help to make me a decision.

Here is what i ordered finally

1. NCE PH-10R 10 Amp Radio DCC Starter Set
2 Digitrax PS2012 20 Amp DCC Power Supply
3. Zimo MX695LV Decoder
4. J1 Hudson Usa trains 
5. MTH Gauge 1 Dash 8 

the phoenix sound system will removed from hudson and replaced by MX695LV. once the new Zimo system is available, i will sell my NCE on ebay.

Harsh


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to the world of DCC, Harsh! Your plan sounds good and you'll like the MX695. I've got two now--one in a Swiss Krok and one in a SD40-2W and they have beautiful low speed performance. 

Keith


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