# LGB 21980 Question



## DanCole (Feb 16, 2021)

Does anyone know what this adjust in LGB model 21980 and also how to turn on the Firebox, the manual is no help.
Thanks
Dan


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

DanCole said:


> Does anyone know what this adjust in LGB model 21980 and also how to turn on the Firebox, the manual is no help.
> Thanks
> Dan
> 
> View attachment 63097


Hi


DanCole said:


> Does anyone know what this adjust in LGB model 21980 and also how to turn on the Firebox, the manual is no help.
> Thanks
> Dan
> 
> View attachment 63097


Hi Dan - You don't indicate whether you're operating in DC analog or DCC. This locomotive has a Marklin MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoder and in DCC mode you can access all the sounds shown in the User Guide. In DC analog operating mode, you will only hear the operating sounds and can activate the whistle and bell using track magnets. The knob you're pointing to looks like a volume level control knob. I don't see in the User Guide anything about a flickering LED firebox. If it has one, then it should come on in DC analog mode automatically just like the lights. There's F Key for it shown in the User Guide so are you sure it has an LED there?

Did you buy the locomotive new or from someone. If the prior owner ran it only in DCC, they may have turned off the DC analog operating mode and you'd need a DCC system to reset the decoder's CV50 value to include DC analog operating mode. Read the value of CV50 to see what operating modes it's set for......check the CV Register Listing in your User Guide for the correct settings.


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## DanCole (Feb 16, 2021)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> Hi
> 
> Hi Dan - You don't indicate whether you're operating in DC analog or DCC. This locomotive has a Marklin MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoder and in DCC mode you can access all the sounds shown in the User Guide. In DC analog operating mode, you will only hear the operating sounds and can activate the whistle and bell using track magnets. The knob you're pointing to looks like a volume level control knob. I don't see in the User Guide anything about a flickering LED firebox. If it has one, then it should come on in DC analog mode automatically just like the lights. There's F Key for it shown in the User Guide so are you sure it has an LED there?
> 
> Did you buy the locomotive new or from someone. If the prior owner ran it only in DCC, they may have turned off the DC analog operating mode and you'd need a DCC system to reset the decoder's CV50 value to include DC analog operating mode. Read the value of CV50 to see what operating modes it's set for......check the CV Register Listing in your User Guide for the correct settings.


Operating in DCC and did purchased new. The LED looks like this.
Thanks
Dan


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

DanCole said:


> Operating in DCC and did purchased new. The LED looks like this.
> Thanks
> Dan


Okay, that's definitely a Massoth-produced Firebox Flickering LED unit. Was it working originally but stopped working now? Test your locomotive in DC analog power.......the lights and the Firebox LED should come on. It the LEDs don't come on, they could be burned out.

As I indicated, I didn't see an F Key listed in the User Guide for on/off of the Firebox light except F10 is Cab Light on/off, I assume you've tried it to see if it also activates the Firebox LEDs. I reviewed the CV Register Listing in the User Guide and don't see any specific CV related to the Firebox lights.......probably because there's no separate on/off feature for the LEDs.

If you still can't get the LEDs to activate, you should contact Marklin Customer Service in Germany for assistance. Marklin produced the locomotive with its installed MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoder: [email protected]


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## DanCole (Feb 16, 2021)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> Okay, that's definitely a Massoth-produced Firebox Flickering LED unit. Was it working originally but stopped working now? Test your locomotive in DC analog power.......the lights and the Firebox LED should come on. It the LEDs don't come on, they could be burned out.
> 
> As I indicated, I didn't see an F Key listed in the User Guide for on/off of the Firebox light except F10 is Cab Light on/off, I assume you've tried it to see if it also activates the Firebox LEDs. I reviewed the CV Register Listing in the User Guide and don't see any specific CV related to the Firebox lights.......probably because there's no separate on/off feature for the LEDs.
> 
> If you still can't get the LEDs to activate, you should contact Marklin Customer Service in Germany for assistance. Marklin produced the locomotive with its installed MSD3 mfx/dcc/analog sound decoder: [email protected]


It doesn't work in DC at all with the switch position in 1,2 or 3. I didn't realize it had it until I saw it the other day. With no F number to turn it on I didn't know it was there.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

DanCole said:


> It doesn't work in DC at all with the switch position in 1,2 or 3. I didn't realize it had it until I saw it the other day. With no F number to turn it on I didn't know it was there.


Dan, then CV50 is likely set with the DC analog turned off.

What DCC command station are you using? Can you read the CVs.........what's CV50 set at?


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## DanCole (Feb 16, 2021)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> Dan, then CV50 is likely set with the DC analog turned off.
> 
> What DCC command station are you using? Can you read the CVs.........what's CV50 set at?


Using MRC Prodigy Elite CV #50 (if I'm reading it right) is 050


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

DanCole said:


> Using MRC Prodigy Elite CV #50 (if I'm reading it right) is 050


I checked the specs on your MRC Prodigy Elite: Output: DCC signal with 14.5 V amplitude at 10 amps, for all scales. However, LGB locomotives' DCC decoders produced prior to 2013 require 18 - 22 volts DCC output to the track. Those decoders were made for LGB by Massoth. Massoth DCC installation manuals have a warning that some other brand DCC command stations don't have enough power to properly Read and Write CVs. Your system appears to be in that category. For the Marklin-produced LGB mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders starting in year 2014, I believe they also require 18-22 volts DCC to the track. But any brand DCC command station that has the DCC output voltage 18 - 22 volts should be able to Read and Write both versions of LGB decoders. 

On your programming track, the locomotive should jump back and forth slightly for a couple seconds when you Read or Write a CV indicating that the decoder accepted the command.

The LGB 21980 User Guide indicates the following setting options for CV50 with 10 being the factory-default setting:


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You bring up a good point, most DCC systems do not specify the voltage they use in service mode, but then most decoders do not specify this either.

I suspect service mode is usually a lower voltage, and the issue is normally current sourcing.

Greg


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> You bring up a good point, most DCC systems do not specify the voltage they use in service mode, but then most decoders do not specify this either.
> 
> I suspect service mode is usually a lower voltage, and the issue is normally current sourcing.
> 
> Greg


It's interesting that the specs for the MRC Prodigy Elite DCC system indicate "for all scales" but the track voltage output is only 14.5, normally I believe for the smaller DCC scales like N and O scale trains. "Output: DCC signal with 14.5 V amplitude at 10 amps, for all scales."


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## DanCole (Feb 16, 2021)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> I checked the specs on your MRC Prodigy Elite: Output: DCC signal with 14.5 V amplitude at 10 amps, for all scales. However, LGB locomotives' DCC decoders produced prior to 2013 require 18 - 22 volts DCC output to the track. Those decoders were made for LGB by Massoth. Massoth DCC installation manuals have a warning that some other brand DCC command stations don't have enough power to properly Read and Write CVs. Your system appears to be in that category. For the Marklin-produced LGB mfx/dcc/analog sound decoders starting in year 2014, I believe they also require 18-22 volts DCC to the track. But any brand DCC command station that has the DCC output voltage 18 - 22 volts should be able to Read and Write both versions of LGB decoders.
> 
> On your programming track, the locomotive should jump back and forth slightly for a couple seconds when you Read or Write a CV indicating that the decoder accepted the command.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all your input looks like I have to investigate updating my system.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

DanCole said:


> Thanks for all your input looks like I have to investigate updating my system.


Check out my Website's DCC Components page: ESU & MASSOTH DCC Decoders| LGB Parts & Accessories | (olddominionrailways.com) ESU makes an excellent CabControl Digital System with wireless and touch screen throttle for $400. It has a 7 amp 22v. DC power supply, the wireless command station with terminals for both track layout and a programming track, and the wireless throttle, made in Europe, not China. I've sold about 15 of them to LGB hobbyists in the last 12 months. Just an option to consider.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It amazes me that manufacturers present hardware "for all scales" but neglect to check the NMRA RP's on voltages for DCC for example:



https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/s-9.1_electrical_standards_for_digital_command_control_2021.pdf



The NMRA sort of recommends a nominal 18v for large scale (if you read the standard, the minimum and the maximum typical are the same... goofy!)

From experience anything under 20 volts is not great, and certain decoders, as already stated want 22, and this is not counting how certain locos are very slow until you get 24v on the rails (aristo 3 axle diesels and the LGB track cleaning loco are prime examples)

Selling something that puts out 14.5 volts as suitable for large scale is just plain wrong in my opinion and experience.

Greg


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## DanCole (Feb 16, 2021)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> Check out my Website's DCC Components page: ESU & MASSOTH DCC Decoders| LGB Parts & Accessories | (olddominionrailways.com) ESU makes an excellent CabControl Digital System with wireless and touch screen throttle for $400. It has a 7 amp 22v. DC power supply, the wireless command station with terminals for both track layout and a programming track, and the wireless throttle, made in Europe, not China. I've sold about 15 of them to LGB hobbyists in the last 12 months. Just an option to consider.


Thanks, sent you email


Greg Elmassian said:


> It amazes me that manufacturers present hardware "for all scales" but neglect to check the NMRA RP's on voltages for DCC for example:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I agree even though it's been working fine for a couple years. I did think it was underpowered and had a couple issues changing CVs


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

I have a 21980. Bought new,
fwiw, mine doesnt seem to have a firebox light, nor was it mentioned in the manual. And, the older lgb literature does not mention a firebox light.
(asi recall, the black weathered DR toy fair version, offered contemporaneously, did mention the firebox lighting)

the alexander theimer 21980 loco has synchronized smoke.
i have always assumed that the firebox light was omitted.
im not certain the loco has lights, but, i havent opened mine, and i dont know if it has firebox led unit.
otoh, i have the #54 kI and the “push me pull you” kII, these all have firebox lights.

i run analog.

please post if the 21980 loco does indeed have firebox lighting, and, how turn it on. ( is it linked to the smoke unit??)


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## DanCole (Feb 16, 2021)

stevedenver said:


> I have a 21980. Bought new,
> fwiw, mine doesnt seem to have a firebox light, nor was it mentioned in the manual. And, the older lgb literature does not mention a firebox light.
> (asi recall, the black weathered DR toy fair version, offered contemporaneously, did mention the firebox lighting)
> 
> ...


I bought mine new, everything works according to the manual except the Firebox light that is definitely in there, no mention of it anywhere.


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## wolfetrac (Dec 24, 2010)

I own a 21980 & a 21985. The 21980 does not have the flickering fire box but the 21985 does. Hope this helps.


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