# Decal Experience = 0 Help!



## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

I am wanting to start personalizing my locos. Being the impulsive person that I am, I started tonight, and hope I don't regret it. I don't really want to bother Stan, so I'm asking here. He states in his directions that it is better to do glossy surfaces. Is a stock Bachmann Climax considered glossy? I don't really think so, but I hate the thought of spraying it glossy to decal it. 

Please advise! 

Thanks, 
Matt


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## carpenter matt (Jan 3, 2008)

Matt, i think it does help to spray gloss first, then apply the decals. Also make sure you trim them as close to the letter/number etc. as you possible can. Then after the decal is dry, spray with testors dullcote or krylon matte medium. 
And I don't think Stan would mind what so ever the questions.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Matt, 
I have pretty good luck on bare plastic by just taking a 0000 pad and buffing it a little. Apply a little thin coat of solval and then once it sets apply a coat of dul coat.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Matt....  

In my application guidelines, it's mentioned that the best results are achieved when applied in a "glossy" surface, however the when applied to the surface on a Bachmann Shay, they will work just fine. I just coat the surface where the decals will be applied with a film of the release water. That creates a very "friendly" environment for the decal material to adhere right nicely. When the decals are fully dry (24 or more hours) you will notice a more glossy finish where the decals are applied. A coating of of Kylon Satin followed by a coats of Matte will even the surface and the edges of the decal will not be noticeable. Should work just fine.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt...here's the physics of decale laying. Glossy finish means the height of all the molecules of the paint are near the same...and that's why it shines under light. When you have a non-glossy surface, the molecule levels of the paint are at different heights...and there are grades of gloss....from glossy to matt. So...different molecule heights give you different "glosses". Different molecular heights are called high gloss, gloss, semi-gloss, eggshell, satin, matt, and flat....that's from flatest to most variation in height. 

The reason you hear about spraying a surface with gloss...is that it makes the flatest surface....with little difference in the molecular height. That "flatest surface" is the best on to bond a decale to using the simpliest techniques .... read as water. If you use decale fluids....they soften the decale material and let it bond to rougher surfaces by softening it so that it lays closely on the hills and valleys of a "rougher" surface. If you spray gloss on a surface to be decaled....then decale it, you get a great bond of the decale to the model...meaning it lays real flat with no white areas where it didn't bond. 

When you overspray it with matt or satin clear you bring the whole model back to the same sheen...meaning the clear overspray blends it all to one set of different molecular heights....through the clear spray. It's this clear overspray that makes it all look all one color.


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

One other suggestion... 

After applying the decal, there will be some extra water on the model. I touch the edge of a piece of Kleenex to the edge of the decal. This draws off any excess water. Then, after the decal drys, I coat it with Walthers Solvaset. It softens the decal material and caused it to firmly attach to the model. Do NOT touch the decal after applying then Solvaset since it will damage the decal. After the Solvaset dries, you can do whatever over spraying that you wish.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, 
I have had the best luck with Walthers Solvaset like Bill says. It will make the decal suck down just like it was painted. On the overspray,use very light coats. If you get heavy handed with it,especially on the first coat the decal could crinkle up on you.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

One caution about dullcoat.. 
there were reports a few years back that dullcoat reacts badly to exposure to sunlight..its probably not "UV safe".. 
it gets foggy/cloudy/splotchy..I remember seeing some photos. 
So its not good to use dullcoat on trains that will be outdoors in the sun.. 

its fine for your HO scale "indoor-only" locos, but beware of dullcoat for outdoor trains.. 

Scot


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## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

I use Stan's decals for everything. I do like Krylon sprays for my train work. But I have used Dullcote for decal coverage on my largescale trains. I don't leave anything out, but have run them outside without any bad experiences so far. 
I use decal set when setting my decals, especially when going on a grainy surface. When I did my Shay, I just applied them to the semi-flat Krylon after repainting once I removed the factory lettering, then once dry gave them a clear coating and it turned out great!


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I don't use decals, but I have used Testor's Dullcoat outdoors on a structure. It didn't fair well. It turned yellow in short order. Since then I have used various matte clear coat products from the craft stores, as well as Krylon, all with excellent results. Besides that, the Testor's is really pricey stuff.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow! Thanks for all of your responses, gents! Lots of good suggestions that I will use to experiment. 
I'll try to get some Solvaset today. The decal on my Climax looks like it will turn out okay, as suggested, after I spray with a Krylon Matte. 

Thanks again, 
Matt


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Before Stan got into the decal business, he sent me some gold "98" decals for one of my 0-4-0's. I followed his instructions, and they're still beautiful.


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## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steamnutt on 06/21/2008 1:10 PM
I use Stan's decals for everything. I do like Krylon sprays for my train work. But I have used Dullcote for decal coverage on my largescale trains. I don't leave anything out, but have run them outside without any bad experiences so far. 
I use decal set when setting my decals, especially when going on a grainy surface. When I did my Shay, I just applied them to the semi-flat Krylon after repainting once I removed the factory lettering, then once dry gave them a clear coating and it turned out great! 






If you are headed out to the Krylon section of your favorite store, you will be not be able to find the "Semi-Flat" designation any longer. See my posting under "Subject: Where has Johnny Bench gone? Laka-Krylon?" that details how the government is keeping us "safe" 
You can switch to Krylon's industrial lineup and find their "semi-flat" in black (maybe others?) and "risk" your well-being but have a nice looking project. My choice comes pretty easily. Long live "semi-flat"!!!


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

So, is semi-flat different than satin?


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## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes - their (Krylon's) satin gives quite a bit more "shine" factor - approaches semi-gloss in my opinion, and in my particular case where I was redoing a GP9 to the "Black Widow" it was simply not acceptable. I had begun the project with some SemiFlat black that I had and was greeted with the "Satin Black" at the local Walmart and TrueValue - thankfully, I experimented on an old Folger's can before I ruined my project. That's the point where I contacted Krylon. If you are trying to match the original SemiFlat with their Satin finishes, it won't do the job. The only way I can see is to use the Satin on a new project, wait a week for it to fully cure and then overspray with their clear matte to return it to the same sheen as their semi-flat. Also, if you are going to decal the new finish, then use a full gloss, wait the week and decal it, then do the matte. I am not sure I would risk this on the model itself without trying it on the Folgers can first however. I sprayed a test patch on the can, applied a spare decal and tested my sequence several ways before I had the confidence to proceed with the actual project. As a side note, Krylon's feedback all seemed predicated on the fact that they were forced away from the lacquer-based products by "regulations" but at the same time, I noticed on my last visit yesterday to Home Depot that they continue to carry lacquer paints (but from Rustoleum) in selected (read as few) colors. Go figure!


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