# Need Transformer Recommendations



## jhickman (Nov 30, 2009)

Can anyone recommend a transformer for me? 

I run large and small engines, indoor and out on essentially simple ovals, no sides, no signals, no frills but I would like something to grow into as I expand my layouts. I think I need a little more juice than what I have now. I have seen a lot of ads but I'd rather get something recommended by the group. 


I have a small LGB transformer as well as an old transformer from one of my HO layouts. 

Thanks,
Joe


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

10 amp MRC AG990 "power G" if you are running DC and want a throttle. Big, tough, fan cooled, nice big throttle handle, and an honest 10 amps. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Bridgewerks TDR 25. Bigger, Tougher.. Sweeter....... 25 amps of man slappin power, My own opionion of course and like butts we all have them..... HE HE HE







Were is Jerry when you need him? i need something to slap.......


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Too expensive, he is coming from a small LGB transformer, not Beverly Hills! 

BRW1510701 - MAGNUM SR SERIES - 10 Amp One-Track Manual Controllers, $349 from St. Aubins. 

(ha ha, let the flames begin!) 

Greg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I ran a lot of trains with a CRE55401 that sells for about $60, and a $30 6 amp power supply from AllElectronics.com


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 11 Jan 2010 03:16 PM 
Bridgewerks TDR 25. Bigger, Tougher.. Sweeter....... 25 amps of man slappin power, My own opionion of course and like butts we all have them..... HE HE HE







Were is Jerry when you need him? i need something to slap.......















I concur with Nick here. Buy your power supply once. 
Bridgewerks. I have one and it has proven to be very reliable and flexible. 

Buy your power supply once and save money. Initial cash outlay is a factor, however think long term. 

Regards, 


gg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Go battery/ RC Now let the flames and beatings begin!! Or have the best of both worlds Battery/Lektricity! Hee Hee 








Let's see now Nicky can't take this and make it work cause its battery powered!! Hee Hee


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Hmmmmmmmmm how about this HE HE HE


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 11 Jan 2010 06:21 PM 
I ran a lot of trains with a CRE55401 that sells for about $60, and a $30 6 amp power supply from AllElectronics.com 

Tomy my brother fron another mother? i can run more trains with a TDR 25


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

If he's financially challenged, I thought he'd like my solution for a similar problem. The Asylum layout was powered this way.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very few people need 25 amps, and he's coming from an LGB. 

If he was running long trains like you Nick, I would have suggested a larger supply like you use. 

If he is running an LGB right now, it's highly doubtful he needs something much over 5 amps. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Really, the amperage thing--how many people need more than ten amps? I'm able to pull 4 heavyweights up a 5% grade with an aristo Pacific while running a freight train with two diesels in a consist--AND powering some building lights from the track. I'm not sure I'd ever need more than that, unless I want to start welding steel from the rail. How many people need more than the 10 amps in the MRC? Very few.

If he ever needed more amperage, he could get the silly bridgewerks with the apparently very persuasive ad with the muscly guy looking all tough, and then use the MRC to power a test bench. Of course, you'd probably want at least 25 amps on a test bench...


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Seems the "bigger is better" idea has found it's way into this thread. 
Using, actually even marketing, a 25 amp supply to run a single train is totally ridiculous. 
And that's all you can control with a basic analog set up - one train. 

So take a look and see hiow much current one train requires. 
Each motorblock should take no more than 1 amp worst case, plus sound if you have, smoke and lit passenger cars. 
So even a triple header lit passenger train would take less than 10 amps. 
DCC is an area Last current measurement I took running a 12 passenger car train with lights and a single engine with two motor blocks camed in just under 3 amps. 

A big problem with these huge power supplies are resistive shorts and you do get those in model railroading. 
DCC boosters, where more current would make sense since one can control multiple trains individually, are typically limited to 10, 12 and 15 amps. Anyone ever wonder why? Wouldn't it be a lot easier to use one 50 amp DCC booster than to buy five 10 amp boosters and divide the layout into power sections?


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 10:45 AM 
Seems the "bigger is better" idea has found it's way into this thread. 
Using, actually even marketing, a 25 amp supply to run a single train is totally ridiculous. 
And that's all you can control with a basic analog set up - one train. 






No, you can power as many trains at once as the power pack will support. We run seven trains simultaneously on two or three power packs, but never get close to the 10 amp fuse rating (16.7 amp transformer ratings) on any of the packs.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 12 Jan 2010 09:06 AM 
Really, the amperage thing--how many people need more than ten amps? I'm able to pull 4 heavyweights up a 5% grade with an aristo Pacific while running a freight train with two diesels in a consist--AND powering some building lights from the track. I'm not sure I'd ever need more than that, unless I want to start welding steel from the rail. How many people need more than the 10 amps in the MRC? Very few.

If he ever needed more amperage, he could get the silly bridgewerks with the apparently very persuasive ad with the muscly guy looking all tough, and then use the MRC to power a test bench. Of course, you'd probably want at least 25 amps on a test bench...






1st Off i luv it when you throw down a statment like that Mike cause it really is silly, Just cause your rr is small and you can get away with a 10 amp doesnt mean others can. most people i now use there 25 amp bridgewerks to power all there loops and run big trains can you????????? Nope didnt think so. and Greg the poster said he wanted room to grow he didnt say how large so you cant say that he wanted a small power pack.Also i reread his post and i think you red it wrong i dont see him saying he runs LGB loco just small and large. My power pack will operate all 3 of my loops and can handle anything i throw at it can your Mike, Greg ???????????? come on guys start thinking out side the box, you guys arent the ony ones that have RRs... if i came to your house to run with 3 e-8s and 11 heavyweights i would blow your power packs up rite? thought so thats why i run the biggest and the best that way i dont have to worry about it and im sure there are plenty of others that agree, How many ft of track do you have Mike? when im done it will be over 3000ft do you think your little pack will power my layout? came on get a grip when you post.....................


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 12 Jan 2010 07:43 AM 
If he's financially challenged, I thought he'd like my solution for a similar problem. The Asylum layout was powered this way.


If he is, then it would be a problem but he did say he was so shouldnt be an issue at this point rite!!!!!!!! he said he was looking to grow cant grow much bigger than a TDR 25 now can we....


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 10:45 AM 
Seems the "bigger is better" idea has found it's way into this thread. 
Using, actually even marketing, a 25 amp supply to run a single train is totally ridiculous. 
And that's all you can control with a basic analog set up - one train. 

So take a look and see hiow much current one train requires. 
Each motorblock should take no more than 1 amp worst case, plus sound if you have, smoke and lit passenger cars. 
So even a triple header lit passenger train would take less than 10 amps. 
DCC is an area Last current measurement I took running a 12 passenger car train with lights and a single engine with two motor blocks camed in just under 3 amps. 

A big problem with these huge power supplies are resistive shorts and you do get those in model railroading. 
DCC boosters, where more current would make sense since one can control multiple trains individually, are typically limited to 10, 12 and 15 amps. Anyone ever wonder why? Wouldn't it be a lot easier to use one 50 amp DCC booster than to buy five 10 amp boosters and divide the layout into power sections? 




Id like to know what kind of train you run that has 12 lighted passenger cars and pulls less than 3 amps with an engine. never seen it and never heard of one, Unless of course you modified them in some way and there not stock anymore........... LEDs maybe


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's very important to some people that they have "the biggest" and "the best."

Nick, I have zero idea about your requirements--none. My point was that most people don't need that much amperage. I'll stick with that: *most people don't need ten amps.* Most people will not get 3000 feet of track. If they are ready to spend the dough to get 3000 feet of track, then they are not going to worry about having to buy a new power supply, are they? I mean, let's get real here. Are you seriously suggesting that at some point, the guy would be ready to buy 12 USAT coaches at $250 a pop, to run on his 3000 feet of track, and he would not be able to, because he would would not be able to buy the bridgewerks thingie? Excuse me while I chuckle


Sometimes I think I need a new hobby, with sane people in it. 


PS--yes, if you add LEDS you can get 12 heavweights WAY below 3 amps. I converted all mone to leds and they draw about 40 ma apiece. Less than half an amp.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 12 Jan 2010 11:18 AM 
It's very important to some people that they have "the biggest" and "the best." 


Nick, I have zero idea about your requirements--none. My point was that most people don't need that much amperage. I'll stick with that: *most people don't need ten amps.* Most people will not get 3000 feet of track. If they are ready to spend the dough to get 3000 feet of track, then they are not going to worry about having to buy a new power supply, are they? I mean, let's get real here. Are you seriously suggesting that at some point, the guy would be ready to buy 10 USAT coaches at $250 a pop, to run on his 3000 feet of track, and he would not be able to, because he would would not be able to buy the bridgewerks thingie? Excuse me while I chuckle


Sometimes I think I need a new hobby, with sane people in it. 

Its very important to some people to have the equipment to make there trains run properly, there are 1000s and 1000s of heavyweights and usa passenger cars out there so it not a stretch to think that a lot of people have a bunch of them no? Also alot of people dont or cant convert to LEDs like you have done to keep your amperage down. I know a LOT of people that have a 1000ft of track or more, a lot of them post here on this forum and most run some sort of track power. You cant run multiple passenger car and freight trains on a small 10 amp pack im sorry i dont see it. At the train shows i run about 200ft of trackwith 2 E-S and 11 to 14 LIGHTED passenger cars of bolth makes and they draw around 17amps. So my point is there are just more than a few going to the Bigger thing........ Now that we cleared that up did you get my XMAS card







i know Greg Did.......... And PS some of us are only insane when we have to write our monthly morgage checks.....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I did state I made the assumption that 10 amps would be enough. I could be wrong. We can have Joe tell us. 

Yes, long lighted passenger trains will use a lot of current. I'm up to 9 amps on my "worst case" train, 3 E8's, all with sound, 3.4% grade, and 8 lighted USAT passenger cars. 

So, it's of course possible to hit over 10 amps. I'm almost there. Nick is beyond there! But, since this thread is for Joe, I don't believe Joe is anywhere needing 10 amps. 

Also, from $150 for the MRC to $350 for the same amperage on the Bridgewerks is probably not going to be worth it for Joe. 

Again, this is time for Joe to speak up, I've assumed and guessed all I can. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 12 Jan 2010 10:52 AM 
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 10:45 AM 
Seems the "bigger is better" idea has found it's way into this thread. 
Using, actually even marketing, a 25 amp supply to run a single train is totally ridiculous. 
And that's all you can control with a basic analog set up - one train. 






No, you can power as many trains at once as the power pack will support. We run seven trains simultaneously on two or three power packs, but never get close to the 10 amp fuse rating (16.7 amp transformer ratings) on any of the packs.



How do you control each train individually if you only have one throttle?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 11:07 AM 

Id like to know what kind of train you run that has 12 lighted passenger cars and pulls less than 3 amps with an engine. never seen it and never heard of one, Unless of course you modified them in some way and there not stock anymore........... LEDs maybe




No - all stock LGB right out of the box.

Engine is an RhB Ge 4/4 III with two motor blocks and sound, all the cars are the long lit RhB passenger cars with standard ball-bearing wheelsets and 5 volt incandescent lighting. Power was a 5 amp switching supply connected to the old TE throttle, current was just below 3 amp going up a 3.5% incline which was the worst case.

Current draw on the level was quite a bit less.

I really don't understand why some trains are such current hogs. USA Trains engines used to be current hogs years ago but that was fixed as far as I know.
If you do the calculation the numbers come out right - 750ma per motor block plus 300ma for sound and 25ma per 5 volt light - each car has four lights - there was one baggage car with no lights and two dining cars with lights on each table in addition to the ceiling lights.

Dining car table lights are wired two in series by LGB, that reduces the brightness making them look more realistic, also reduces the overall current required.

One problem with heavyweights I can see that would require a lot more current is the rolling resistance. Cars with ball-bearing pick-ups only require about 10 grams each, the older LGB cars with carbon brushes required about 120 grams each - that additional load would translate into more current draw by the engine.

I wouldn't dream of powering anything on my layout with a 25 amp supply - far too risky if you have a short.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:12 PM 
Posted By toddalin on 12 Jan 2010 10:52 AM 
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 10:45 AM 
Seems the "bigger is better" idea has found it's way into this thread. 
Using, actually even marketing, a 25 amp supply to run a single train is totally ridiculous. 
And that's all you can control with a basic analog set up - one train. 






No, you can power as many trains at once as the power pack will support. We run seven trains simultaneously on two or three power packs, but never get close to the 10 amp fuse rating (16.7 amp transformer ratings) on any of the packs.



How do you control each train individually if you only have one throttle?




Who ever said that they needed to be controlled individually? Many of us just turn them on and let them go.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 12 Jan 2010 01:35 PM 
Who ever said that they needed to be controlled individually? Many of us just turn them on and let them go.




Funny...............

So you put three trains on an oval and have them chase each other?
Or go one step further and add a block system to prevent them from running into each other.


Certainly not my way of running trains but each to his own.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

People keep mentioning the length of their track as justification for a higher current supply. 
The length of the track has nothing to do with the current required to run a train - extra feet of track don't use up amps.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Knut, 

Todd does all that fancy stuff with relays and automatic train control. I also believe he has multiple loops as well. 

So, multiple trains on one loop and "just let them go" is a teeny bit misleading... "just let them operate under the automatic train control" might be closer ;-) 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 10:58 AM 

My power pack will operate all 3 of my loops and can handle anything i throw at it can your Mike, Greg ???????????? come on guys start thinking out side the box, you guys arent the ony ones that have RRs... if i came to your house to run with 3 e-8s and 11 heavyweights i would blow your power packs up rite? thought so thats why i run the biggest and the best that way i dont have to worry about it and im sure there are plenty of others that agree, How many ft of track do you have Mike? when im done it will be over 3000ft do you think your little pack will power my layout? came on get a grip when you post.....................











Ever checked how much force you need to move one of these heavyweights?
I don't own any but from what I have read both the power pick up and the lights are not exactly current technology.
And as I mentioned already - length of track has nothing to do with current requirements.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:46 PM 
People keep mentioning the length of their track as justification for a higher current supply. 
The length of the track has nothing to do with the current required to run a train - extra feet of track don't use up amps. 

It does matter when you powering 3 seperate loops with one power pack VIA 3 T.E.s







some of you guys need to understand that there are other ways of doing things.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Jan 2010 01:47 PM 
Knut, 

Todd does all that fancy stuff with relays and automatic train control. I also believe he has multiple loops as well. 

So, multiple trains on one loop and "just let them go" is a teeny bit misleading... "just let them operate under the automatic train control" might be closer ;-) 

Regards, Greg




Essentially a block control system I take it.
So OK - one needs enough current to run all the trains in this type of set up although I doubt it's very common.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 02:07 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 10:58 AM 

My power pack will operate all 3 of my loops and can handle anything i throw at it can your Mike, Greg ???????????? come on guys start thinking out side the box, you guys arent the ony ones that have RRs... if i came to your house to run with 3 e-8s and 11 heavyweights i would blow your power packs up rite? thought so thats why i run the biggest and the best that way i dont have to worry about it and im sure there are plenty of others that agree, How many ft of track do you have Mike? when im done it will be over 3000ft do you think your little pack will power my layout? came on get a grip when you post.....................











Ever checked how much force you need to move one of these heavyweights?
I don't own any but from what I have read both the power pick up and the lights are not exactly current technology.
And as I mentioned already - length of track has nothing to do with current requirements. 



No never checked but they do have alot of drag same as USA, but if i need more power i just add another engine. i do relize the way i do it does take more AMPS but that how i know to run trains. i recently bought a whole bunch of LEDs and some other electrical parts so i will start converting my passenger fleet to get the Amps down, but still nice to have the power if needed.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 02:08 PM 
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:46 PM 
People keep mentioning the length of their track as justification for a higher current supply. 
The length of the track has nothing to do with the current required to run a train - extra feet of track don't use up amps. 

It does matter when you powering 3 seperate loops with one power pack VIA 3 T.E.s







some of you guys need to understand that there are other ways of doing things. 



But why would you do that? If you're using T.E., you could just get three meanwell 10 amp transformers--around 60 bucks each. Then you'd have 10 amps of regulated DC on each loop--more then the Bridgewerks and under $200 bucks. If you are using the TE why mess with the bridgewerks throttle? 


I ran using aristo te's and track power for years. It works fine. Why have one power pack?


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 12 Jan 2010 02:27 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 02:08 PM 
Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:46 PM 
People keep mentioning the length of their track as justification for a higher current supply. 
The length of the track has nothing to do with the current required to run a train - extra feet of track don't use up amps. 

It does matter when you powering 3 seperate loops with one power pack VIA 3 T.E.s







some of you guys need to understand that there are other ways of doing things. 



But why would you do that? If you're using T.E., you could just get three meanwell 10 amp transformers--around 60 bucks each. Then you'd have 10 amps of regulated DC on each loop--more then the Bridgewerks and under $200 bucks. If you are using the TE why mess with the bridgewerks throttle? 


I ran using aristo te's and track power for years. It works fine. Why have one power pack?



Mike the TEs were just an example, when i complete my layout will be able to run DC, DCS DCC BATTERY on any loop with just a flick of a switch, so i wanted the best power i could find that was good Quality product so i didnt have to worry about it breaking in a year or 2. Yes i know it cost more but i tend to try to buy quality when i can afford it. and to be honest up untill a few years ago many of us never heard of Meanwell. It was either LGB jumbo big bucks Aristo craft or Bridgewerks........ ive had my bridgewerks for 5 years with no issues. I also keep a Aristo elite anda MRC as back ups or to use at train shows.... Also at the time i reentered the hobby i never new that much back then about LEDs so a 10 amp would not power what i had planned on buying, plus not a lot of people were doing LED conversions back then to lower the AMPS.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

In Nick's case, he goes to shows and other places, carrying separate power supplies would be a pain, and the equipment gets moved and handled a lot more. Thus a higher quality power supply and a big-a** one make sense. 

So the extra cost is worth it to Nick in reliability and convenience. 

But, of course this thread is not about Nick (or wasn't supposed to be ha ha!) 

I suppose we have answered the thread originator's question by now, or scared him off from entering the "disco inferno".... 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Jan 2010 03:02 PM 
In Nick's case, he goes to shows and other places, carrying separate power supplies would be a pain, and the equipment gets moved and handled a lot more. Thus a higher quality power supply and a big-a** one make sense. 

So the extra cost is worth it to Nick in reliability and convenience. 

But, of course this thread is not about Nick (or wasn't supposed to be ha ha!) 

I suppose we have answered the thread originator's question by now, or scared him off from entering the "disco inferno".... 

Regards, Greg 

Its always about me Greg, didnt you get the memo........







he he he







..... he's not scared off he's just trying to figure out if he wants back in to the conversation....
Last note from me about this, everybody has there own way of doing things so whats nice about this forum is you can see all the different ways and make a decision as to whats best for you.. I guess theres no wrong way to approach this hobby, thats why its so COOL to play with trains. im done now, I need to go feed the pets.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 12 Jan 2010 01:43 PM 
Posted By toddalin on 12 Jan 2010 01:35 PM 
Who ever said that they needed to be controlled individually? Many of us just turn them on and let them go.




Funny...............

So you put three trains on an oval and have them chase each other?
Or go one step further and add a block system to prevent them from running into each other.


Certainly not my way of running trains but each to his own. 



First of all, the OP indicated that he runs "simple oval*s*." So why shouldn't he run both/multiple ovals on the same pack assuming it can support the load? There is no chance for collision and he has the advantage of being able to start/stop them all simultaneously.

As for the T&LBRR, we run many ways. Yes we use block control with 21 blocks each addressable by any of three throttles. We run as many as seven trains simultaneously on ~600 feet of track. *For open houses*, we typically run four trains in three loops that intersect and the crossing is protected by electronic control of our own design (and documented here many times). The other three run point to point.










But we also run operations with three engineers and two towermen who take care of the turnout and block necessities.

Recognize that anyone who runs a simple loop or point to point with a spur that can be shut off with a toggle switch is actually running in "blocks." Also recognize that block control is the most prevelent type of control in model railroading. Just think of all those H0 and N pikes that have been running block systems since ...


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

THe Decepticon in SR71 garb was interesting! 
LAO


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## jhickman (Nov 30, 2009)

Guys, 

So sorry for my late reply. I didn't check mark the "Check the box to receive email notifications for this topic". I thought it was weird that no one had an opinion on this until I checked the actual thread today instead of waiting for a response in my e-mail box. LOL 

Greg, the MRC AG990 was one that I was looking at and I might get one for outdoor use. Last week I bought an MRC 9500 for $95 (it's the one with the track current and voltage gauges). The large throttle on the AG990 wasn't going to work for my home office ceiling layout as I wanted to conserve space. The old transformers that I was using were just struggling when I was running my LGB 2085D which to this day is my favorite engine for indoor use. The introduction of the MRC 9500 is like night and day. I had no idea that engine could run that fast (never ran it in my backyard). 

I'll keep the MRC 9500 in my home office and I'll figure out something in the backyard after we get through a new landscaping venture my wife wants to have done later this year. While I've enjoyed having a simple layout in my backyard my mind is shifting toward a more complex layout that with all sorts of things my boys will no doubt destroy. It's one of the reasons why many of my engines and cars haven't seen the sun in many years. In fact, what is most run in the backyard has been an LGB starter set I bought my boys. It's been through things that would make a grown man cry, but still running. 

The ceiling layout has been great for a guy with little boys. It's up high and I've gotten cars out of storage that literally have not been run for almost 30 years. 

Thanks, 
Joe


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

well, we all know, that Nick is planning the ultimate LS-layout. (guiness book of records style) 
so i understand, that he needs to buy a 25 to 50 ampere power pack. 
nothing to argue against that. 

but we might think as well about Joe-average's needs. (sorry, no pun intended) 

Joe, 
you read enough by now about bigger or smaller powerpacks. but nobody mentioned the other option: 
more (small) powerpacks. 

depending, what you plan to do with your layout, you might be happy with a couple of 1 Ampere packs. 
example - if you build a loop plus one shunting yard, one train could run happily around the loop powered by one pack, while you shunt in the yard with a second small pack. 
or, if you like automated trains (running on blocks), the maximum you would need, would be one pack per block. 

for me that has allways worked. 
my last layout was automated. six trains running simultaniously on blocks. each block powered by a one Amp powerpack. 
i hoarded the packs over the years (actually ten). some were originally for H0, some for 0 and some for G. 
the trains i run, have one or two motors. (two to four additional bulbs in the coaches) 
lately i bought a bigger pack (full 4 Amps!!) for use at the 46' long 6% grades, i am building. 

even if you need a really big powerpack later, the small ones are not wasted. you can use them for lighting buildings.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I had to go with a 25 amp unit so when i fly Kormy in for the Golden spike day id have enough power for him to run his choo choos along will everyone else








Remember its not the size but how you use it........


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm. Hadn't thought of that.









Perhaps you'd better look for 100 amp supplies.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

First of all, the OP indicated that he runs "simple ovals." So why shouldn't he run both/multiple ovals on the same pack assuming it can support the load? There is no chance for collision and he has the advantage of being able to start/stop them all simultaneously. 

I just don't see how one gets much enjoyment running all trains at the same speed all the time - I also don't see any advantage of being able to start and stop them simultaneously. 
But as I said - each to his own.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12 Jan 2010 11:07 AM 
Id like to know what kind of train you run that has 12 lighted passenger cars and pulls less than 3 amps with an engine. never seen it and never heard of one, Unless of course you modified them in some way and there not stock anymore........... LEDs maybe 
I just came across this old thread via google.

But in case some one else does and is wondering..........

The 3 amp (it was actually just slightly less than 3 amps measured with a large display analogue panel meter) current required was with an LGB RhB Ge 4/4 III loco with two Buehler motors (lit loco but no sound or smoke, it's an electric locomotive) pulling 12 of the long LGB 3x67x-type RhB passenger cars all with standard factory lighting up a 2 1/2% grade.

Some of the cars used carbon brushes as pick-ups (a fair amount of drag), some used the newer LGB ball-bearing wheels for pick-ups (essentially no drag at all).
Lights were all standard LGB 5 volt incandescent bulbs.
Everything 100% stock.

For the throttle I used a Meanwell 24 volt 6.5 amp supply with the old Aristocraft Train Engineer.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Still hard to believe. Maybe you were going really slowly... could we assume 1 amp for the loco... so 2 amps for 12 cars, which would be 167 milliamperes per car... that is still REALLY low, almost unbelievable.. are the 5 volt bulbs in a series parallel configuration? 

I have a hard time believing it myself... I don't doubt you saw a meter with that reading... but that is very low current. 

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg - 

When I was testing this, and this was probably ten years ago or so, on an outdoor layout, I was trying to get a feeling of how much current I should plan per train for DCC operation - so I was really looking for worst case. 
I normally wouldn't run a train with 12 lit passenger cars - that was really the extreme so I could check what I would consider worst case for one of my trains. 

But I thought at the time that 3 amps sounded very reasonable, so I didn't check in any more details. I was running the train full speed - actually needed to do that to get up the incline, the loco wheels were on the verge of slipping just before the train reached the top. 

I just looked up a few numbers, the cars used the standard LGB68511 5 volt bulbs. 
There are four of those per car mounted evenly spaced in a plastic strip so the light is distributed and diffused evenly throughout the car. 
The light bulbs are all in parallel and powered by that 5 volt linear regulator I posted elsewhere on MLS. 
The current rating of each bulb is 33ma, so that's 132ma nominal per car or a total of 1584 ma for all 12 cars. 
That leaves about 1.4 amps for the two Buehler motors and the lights in the loco - three headlights and a cab light. 
All adds up as far as I can see. 

About half the cars had carbon brushes as pickups, I'm going to change those to ball-bearing pick ups. 
That will decrease the pull required from about 130 grams per car (with brushes) to 8 - 15 grams per car (with ball-bearing pick ups) and should reduce the current draw of the loco motors. 
The lights in the cars are also quite bright since the regulators in the cars are still stock. 
I'm going to drop the voltage to the bulbs which will also reduce the current to maybe around 25ma per bulb. 
The primary purpose of these changes is to modernize the cars and get rid of the brushes and make the lights look more ealistic, not to reduce the current required to run the train - but it does that as well as an added benefit. 
I assume I will end up with about 2.5 amps total worst case draw after these changes. 

Knut


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## jhickman (Nov 30, 2009)

If anyone is wondering..... I bought a Tech 3 Power Command (Model 9500). It works great with my 2085 D MALLET. Of course I also replaced several brushes after loaning it to my dad who ran it at his train club non-stop over a few Christmas displays.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If running DCC, wire the 4 5 volt lights in the LGB cars in series. Now each car will have a 33ma draw. Use a resistor to make up the difference between 20 volts and your track voltage, or for 1.4 volt drop use a diode bridge.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By jhickman on 06 Oct 2011 12:32 AM 
If anyone is wondering..... I bought a Tech 3 Power Command (Model 9500). It works great with my 2085 D MALLET. Of course I also replaced several brushes after loaning it to my dad who ran it at his train club non-stop over a few Christmas displays. 
I also used one of these MRC Tech Ho power packs for a while.
I really like the design of this unit - the only problem with Large Scale was the limited maximum DC voltage which was around 14 volts.

For an LGB Mallet that's fine since the prototype also runs relatively slow and slow looks more prototypical - not so great if one runs standard gauge higher speed trains.

But that H0 supply certainly had enough current output to run LGB locos.

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 06 Oct 2011 04:57 AM 
If running DCC, wire the 4 5 volt lights in the LGB cars in series. Now each car will have a 33ma draw. Use a resistor to make up the difference between 20 volts and your track voltage, or for 1.4 volt drop use a diode bridge. 
Technically certainly an option, but I personally wouldn't do it.

Main reason is that our club runs club meets at various member layouts throughout the year and that I also visit friends to run trains.
So I decided that anything I modify on my equipment has to be done such that it will run on both regular DC (which every one supports on their layout) and DCC.

With the lights wired in series, they wouldn't come on when running analogue.
Besides, it would also require either modifying the printed circuit board the lamp sockets are mounted on or coming up with a new board.

Knut


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Knut, your amperage use is very consistent with my experience. 

Running either a Ge4/4ii or Ge4/4iii with sound, pulling four of those same lit coaches (incl one restaurant with lights at tables), I get around 1-1.2 Amp, my max grade is also about 2.5%. I run at fairly slow prototypical speeds, but even at WOT it would only add about .5Amp max. Most of the time I'm running a LGB double motor sound locomotive with a freight train and it's under 1Amp. Even my big heavy Kiss 6/6ii with sound, pulling about six four-axle freight cars is under 1Amp. The biggest power hog I have is the track cleaning machine, which I think runs just under 2Amp when it's working. At open houses I've run three locomotives with cars with three operators and never had my 5Amp system shut down, so I guess it really makes a difference on the make of the motors/number of poles, and lighting systems used. I should also mention I run steel wheels on all my cars, some ball bearing on the heaviest freight cars. 

Keith


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

One of my cars was the RhB Restaurant cars as well. 
It has the normal four ceiling lights like the other car plus the lit table lamps on each table. 
The table lamps are wired two each in series and those pairs then in parallel with the rest of the lights. 

LGB uses the same regulator but they added a second Elko at the front end to double the capacity. 

When heinz Koopmann was doing the electrical design for LGB years ago, things were really well thought out


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

When heinz Koopmann was doing the electrical design for LGB years ago, things were really well thought out 

Absolutely. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Trying to use resistors with voltage based devices that have variable resistance does not work well (incandescent bulbs)... that is why, if you look, all manufacturers that use bulbs that run at lower than track voltage use a regulator. 

The problem is that the resistance of a bulb varies greatly with the voltage applied. So you set it up for 12 volts, give 14 and a lot more current flows, you get a higher voltage and the bulb burns out. 

Bulbs cannot be treated like an LED, which is a device driven by current not voltage. LEDs are perfectly suited for resistors. 

Regards, Greg


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