# Train engines freeze?



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Passengers on an Amtrak train from Detroit to Chicago were stranded for more than nine hours after both the train's engines froze. 
If the diesel motors are running, can they really freeze up? Shouldn't they have had anti-freeze in their cooling systems? Diesel trucks have tarps they cover the grilles with when it's really cold. Don't diesel trains have a way to close off the vents?


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Other than the SD90MAC, no diesel locomotives in North America use antifreeze. They must either be kept idling in cold weather, or have their cooling systems drained. 

GE and EMD handle their cooling needs differently. GEs will only run water through the radiators when they need to cool down, keeping them dry the rest of the time. EMDs have shutters over the radiators to block the air flow. Both systems are thermostatically controlled. 

I have never seen an engine freeze while in use, but I suppose it could happen in such severe cold weather. I know that older locomotives (specifically EMD, as I've never seen a GE with a winterization hatch) designed for use in extreme cold had ducts which returned some of the heated air from the radiator to circulate inside the engine compartment, but I have not seen that feature on anything newer than an SD40-2, I think.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Could the winshield freeze over? No defrost... 

How about the desiel fuel.?? Truck drivers coming thru Nevada in cold winters would have the fuel " freeze ", turning to a jelly. PITA to fix.... mostly just takes lots of heat to reliquefy the fuel. 
Amtrak locos could have come from a warmer place to start their trip.... 

What other possibilities are there..??? 

Fun trip for passengers..no heat.... 

Dirk


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

You have done it again Randy
have me wandering the web looking for RR related knowledge. Instead of taking down the Christmas decorations, this being 6 Jan

Anyway a very interesting page with generic diesel loco information:

http://exotic.railfan.net/dieselfaq.htm

AND the gent actually cites his references! My goodness.

and this one as well

http://www.railway-technical.com/diesel.shtml

Happy time sucking...

Jerry


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Jerry 

14. Why are diesels left to idle so much instead of being shut down? 
Most diesel locomotives use water as coolant. If the unit is left shutdown for an extended period of time in freezing temperatures, the water will freeze. This could damage the locomotive since water expands as it freezes. Most railroads have rules that locomotives cannot be shut down in temperatures below 40 degrees unless the water is drained. Since starting diesels is time consuming, they are frequently left running even in warmer weather. Fuel consumption drops to only a few gallons per hour in idle mode. 

15. How are diesel locomotives cooled? Water is used as collant in most locomotives. 

16. Why don't they use anti-freeze in diesel locomotives? 
Most diesel locomotives do not use anti-freeze because the chemicals in anti-freeze can be harmful to certain types of metal used in the primer mover. There is also the problem of leaks allowing oil and anti-freeze to mix, causing a loss of much of the lubricating ability of the oil. In addition, anti-freeze can be very expensive and a large amount would be necessary for a locomotive. The new 6000 hp units from EMD and GE are capable of using anti-freeze, as well as the caterpillar engines used in some units.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey guys,

I don't know if any of you are old enough to remember this incident back in 1952 on the infamous Donner Pass in California. I was nine years old at the time and remember it well! Snow-bound passenger train high in the Sierra Nevada's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Yew1UQuQE


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Randy, do you have a news link that mentions freezing? The only ones I could find just mention engine trouble and snow issues.

I've heard of blowing snow getting into Amtrak P42s and shorting out electrical components, but freezing up is a new one to me. But sure sounds like it could have happened with the super cold temps lately.

I was on a Southwest Chief that had some snow/ice/air line issues. Ice/snow got in the line and they had to "flush/blow" it out. They did it during the Kansas City stop.


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

After reading the article and several other forums, it turns out that the term engines freezing was a little out of context. Apparently the brake lines were frozen but the physical diesel engine was still running. The passengers had heat from the HEP. It was more an issue of brakes that then diesels themselves.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info Tom.

Sounds similar to what happened to the train I was on. Brake air line issues.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

It's hard to get all moisture out of compressed air with filters, super cold finds it.


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