# DCC/Sound decoder for USAT GP38 recommendations



## Cushtime2 (Jan 29, 2014)

Hi Everyone,

I am interested in getting some feedback on what decoder to purchase for my USAT GP38. I would like to (if possible) keep the price around $100.00 (less would be better).

I made a mistake earlier this year by purchasing an MRC Prodigy Elite system not being aware of the low voltage output. I also installed an MRC decoder (1818) into a USAT NW2 it works fine but I think I can do better, maybe.

I do plan on upgrading the MRC system in the future to an NCE system probably.

Being totally new to this technology I don't even know what questions to ask. So any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

John


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

If you are looking for a decent sound decoder you may want to consider more $


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## Cushtime2 (Jan 29, 2014)

Treeman said:


> If you are looking for a decent sound decoder you may want to consider more $


Yeah Mike the 100 dollar amount was just wishful thinking. I did somewhat base that amount on the price I paid for the MRC decoder and with my lack of knowledge it sounded okay to me. Of course I have not been out listening to other decoders.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can get something that will work at that price but no sound... the NCE decoders are plenty solid.

For sound, you need $200, no matter if Zimo, QSI, ESU, Massoth

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The Soundtraxx "Econami" line is very good. They have a 4-amp capacity decoder. I put one of their steam decoders in my B'mann K-27, and the motor and sound are both very good. I've run an Econami-equipped HO scale diesel, and had no complaints about how it operated or sounded. I bought mine from Caboose Hobbies for $127 plus tax. 

The Prodigy Elite system is a good system, but the lower voltage can be a problem if you want to run your trains at modern mainline speeds. If you're used to it, I'd consider looking to see if you can just get a booster for it and use that to power the railroad. Nothing wrong with the 10-amp NCE system--that seems to be the go-to system for large scalers--but no sense in spending more money on a new system if you can just buy a booster to use with what you already have.

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

how much is the 4 amp econami Kevin? it seems you recommended it, but supplied the price for the HO unit which is not suitable for the G scale loco requested.

Greg

p.s. the prodigy is not in the same class as the NCE, so adding a booster to the prodigy does not make it an NCE.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

> how much is the 4 amp econami Kevin?


It's the 4-amp that's $127 at Caboose (MSRP $149). The 1 and 2-amp versions are in the $70 - $80 range depending on form factor. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Soundtraxx  just announced the Tsunami 2, which has (literally) more bells and whistles than the Econami, but are functionally very similar. No word on when the 4-amp version of that is to be released or what its price point will be, but it'll likely be closer to the $200 of the QSI and ESU boards. 

Also, TCS finally has their 5-amp decoder on "pre-order" on their web site. MSRP $200. They just introduced "version 4" of their software, which early reports say are very good. (I've got a 2-amp board with their "version 3" software in an LGB Porter, and it's quite nice in its own right.)



> p.s. the prodigy is not in the same class as the NCE, so adding a booster to the prodigy does not make it an NCE.


Wouldn't presume to say it does. It makes it a Prodigy system that can provide higher voltages than the stock Prodigy system is capable of providing by itself. My point was that_ if the Prodigy system John already owns meets his needs in terms of functionality_, then there are options for getting more voltage to the track without having to ditch it and buy a whole new system. If he finds it lacking beyond just the lower track voltage, then he can certainly benefit from looking at other systems. His needs, his call.

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry Kevin, that is a good price, really want to see it perform. 

I understand you made a good suggestion to use the Prodigy by just adding a booster, just wanted to address that there ARE differences between systems in capability, reliability, expandability.

Greg


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## Cushtime2 (Jan 29, 2014)

I would also like to hear about some options for boosting the voltage. This would probably give me more time before I need to upgrade. I didn't think boosting the voltage was an option. Thank you all for you input. I hope to make a purchase for a decoder by the weekend.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There are some booster options, why not start a new thread on this?

The value of the forum is that good discussions become reference for others later on.

The topic/title of this thread would not lead someone reading the forum to answers about boosters.

Do not be shy about starting new threads for new topics!

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

What you'll want to look for is what's sometimes called a "dumb booster." Essentially, you feed the DCC signal from your command station into the input of this booster. This is an optically-isolated input, so essentially the booster just strips off the DCC signal part of this, then pairs it with the power coming from the booster's independent power supply. That power supply can range in voltage and current depending on the rating of the booster itself.

I'm familiar with 2; *Tam Valley Depot's booster* ($55, 3 amps continuous, 5 amps peak) and* CVP Products' Zonemaster* ($80, 7 amps continuous, 30 amps peak). I'm sure there are others, but these are the ones I'm familiar with, and more importantly, are reasonably priced. Both of these boosters handle input voltages up to 24 volts. The voltage out to the track will likely be a little less, but still on the order of 20 - 21 volts or so. For your installation, I'd be inclined to go with the CVP booster because if its higher continuous current output rating. I use the Tam Valley board for battery on-board installations. You will need to supply your own power supply for these, so figure an extra $50 or so for a good regulated power supply. (Many folks like the MeanWell 24-volt, 10-amp power supply. Greg should be able to get you the specifics on that.) 

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One thing to be careful of, Kevin's suggestions are good, but investing too much money in a smaller system might cost more than getting a more capable one in the first place.

The "dumb boosters" cannot have the close integration with the command station like an NCE, where you have the ability to shut the booster off immediately from the throttle, or even more sophisticated systems that can gently throttle the current back under a short that is only drawing current under the normal trip limit.

Just some free, big picture advice.

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

> ...investing too much money in a smaller system might cost more than getting a more capable one in the first place...


You're looking at things from the "what should I buy to get started" perspective. You'd get no argument from with regard to recommending something like the NCE in favor of the MRC system in that situation. 

However, in John's case, the money's already out-of-pocket for the core system. It's a question of correcting the deficiencies of the system that's already bought and paid for. No sense in spending extra money for a new system if a relatively cheap addition to what you have will get you where you want to be. 

I was already looking at buying a Tam Valley booster to use in conjunction with a Sprog Nano USB interface so I can use Decoder Pro to program my locos. After this discussion, I think I'll likely instead go with the CVP booster. That way, I can wire my MRC Advance2 and the Sprog Nano to the booster via a toggle switch, and have 20 volts at 7 amps available to the locomotive whether I'm using the MRC or JMRI on my PC. That ain't a bad way to do business. It meets my needs, and I'm out of pocket all of an additional $120. 

Later,

K


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## Cushtime2 (Jan 29, 2014)

Thank you for the info Kevin. I did purchase the eco-400 from Tonys Trains. As far as the MRC system goes it was an impulse buy at a train show (sort of). I originally went to the train show to purchase an NCE system which I had done my homework on, NCE wasn't selling their product at the show and I ran across a dealer selling the MRC system for half the cost of the NCE system. Not having done any homework on it I made the purchase,

The booster bandaid sounds like something I will pursue in the future once I get 2 locos running on the tracks and possibly see more voltage drop. Its very nice to know that there is an option out there.

Greg, I should have stuck to my guns and not made that impulse buy. Its very difficult being a kid in the candy store. 

I think for the cost it was a good entry level system for me. I still need to learn DDC. I know enough to be dangerous but not enough to use it to its fullest potential.

Thank You,
John


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Trainli has a decoder for $180 (Zimo MX699) with the following features:
6 amp current (no heat sink needed), 10 watt audio, super caps power storage on board, smoke motor control, heater element control, programmable sound, ditch lights that activate with the horn, and many more features.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

John, it just dawned on me that you're in Massachusetts. Dan's not too far from you, nor is Stan Ames who's up in Chelmsford. Dan does DCC work for Train-Li (including setting up the sound file on my Zimo decoder for me). Stan's a long-time DCC large scaler who runs an extensive large scale railroad and has regular prototype operating sessions. (He and his wife used to be the Lenz distributors in the US.) You're definitely in good, knowledgeable company for hands-on assistance as you need it. You can PM Dan above, and Stan's a member here, and also on Large Scale Central. 

And don't knock yourself for the MRC Elite system. It's a good system in its own right. The voltage is a little low for large scale, but from the core functional standpoint of "you turn the knob and the train goes, you push the button and the whistle blows," it'll do everything you need it to do. The NCE will do the same thing, but the buttons on the controller are in different places and some do different things. I've had mine for 7 years, and I find it intuitive and flexible enough for my needs. 

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually there are differences, especially in the programming track capabilities, and other things, like expandability.

Not saying your Prodigy isn't right for you, just that Kevin keeps saying there's no difference. 

Kevin, I'd suggest getting more experience in different systems before making such statements to people new to the hobby and DCC. There's a difference between presenting an opinion and stating something as a fact.

There are differences, that's why there are different products and price points.

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg, I'm _not _suggesting there's no difference. I'm saying that all DCC systems at the core level do the same thing--turn the motor, light the lights, and play the sounds. That's the inherent beauty of the DCC standard. It's _how _they do that, and the "extras" they include which separates one system from the other. Kinda like a car... they all have the same basic components (motor, seat, steering wheel); it's the bells and whistles that make them different.

To continue that analogy, John went shopping for a Cadillac, but left with a Chevy. The Chevy will get him where he needs to go. Lots of folks drive Chevys and are quite happy with how they run. John would simply like to trick out his Chevy so it's a little more like a Caddy. The solution to his dilemma isn't "buy a Caddy." It's "go to Car Toys and trick out your Chevy. These are what you can use." We may all agree that he probably should have bought the Caddy in the first place, but that doesn't help him when the Chevy is already sitting in his driveway. 

If I'm suggesting anything, it's that John will likely find his tricked-out Chevy to be suitable for his needs for the foreseeable future, so not to dwell on any sense of buyer's remorse. 

To my viewpoint, the fun of DCC has little to do with the controller, anyway. I've used NCE, MRC, Piko, Airwire, my PC, and many proprietary (non-DCC) sound and control systems over the years. The flavors of control vary, and some are better than others, but you learn which buttons to press pretty quickly regardless. What makes the experience fun is seeing what those buttons make happen. Seeing the headlight come on, hearing the first loud "CHUFF!" or the prime mover dig in as it starts pulling the train--_that's_ what makes the experience worthwhile. The controller is nothing in that equation. It's a box in your hand. Replace it with another box; the loco performs the same. For me, I pay _far _more attention to the decoder and the locomotive than what controls it. 

Later,

K


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

All in all Guys..seems like a witty time to visit Jay Leno for some tricked out car parts!!
He's a wicked man with metal and ideas!!! Just add steam!!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

He's getting into the ride-on scales, apparently. He was seen at the Las Angeles Live Steamers test-driving a new loco recently.

Later,

K


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