# The best smoke unit on the market



## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

I got one for my Aristo Mallet but it would not fit in the boiler, just a little to large. So I put it in the tender and ran a black hose from the tender to the stack and it works great. It runs under the cab so it looks like a coal feeder. To be able to seperate the tender I cut the tubing and slipped in a small 3/8 length of brass tubing to act as a splice. I get about 45 min on a fill and about 4 foot plume of smoke wind or not. Jake

www.harbormodels.com look under hardware then smoke unit


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

look under hardware then smoke unit 

It's actually under hardware/electronics/smoke generator. Very impressive. 

http://www.harbormodels.com/site08/...smoker.htm


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like it's a bit pricey. It does put out the smoke tho. later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, MTH just took second fiddle! 

That is huge... 2 amps at 12 volts though, that's too much current for the battery guys. 

Regards, Greg


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 Jan 2010 08:51 PM 
Well, MTH just took second fiddle! 

That is huge... 2 amps at 12 volts though, that's too much current for the battery guys. 

Yeah two amps seems high draw. But then what kind of batteries are those boat models using?

This new smoke unit would be even better with a chuff puff sync feature. Probably not going to happen given the intended model boat market.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I may just bit the bullet and buy one and do some test with it and see what I can install it in. Just a little concerned tho about the amount of current it draws. Later RJD


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## david bunn (Jan 4, 2008)

I too looked at the harbour freight product and again the current draw is worrying.However, looking further into the model boat scene I Googled Model smoke generators and came up with loads of interesting stuff,some quite frightening!Some of the guys in the boating world are using mist generators with great results,these use a fast oscilating ceramic diaphram to produce a water mist.The downside so far though is the depth of reservoir needed to work the thing but maybe a thing for the future, 
Regards 
David


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

even better with a chuff puff sync feature 

I emailed them to see what they thought.


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## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

Pete, 
Please let us know what they say about a chuff feature, that unit sure puts out the smoke!


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

I tested with the amp/voltage meter I got from Tony's Trains and if its accurate at 18v it draws at .87 amps not two that it says on the web site. I use a constant 18v and all engines have QSI/G-Wire set up. I want to do a kit bash and add a second stack to the mallet the volume of smoke I get can handle it. Jake


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well that info is a little better. So I will order one and Yep I'll figure a way to install in the boiler of the Mallet. Later RJD


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Please let us know what they say about a chuff feature 
Here's what I sent them: 

Questions: 
1. Does it shut off when the fluid runs out? 
2. Can you mount it at an angle (e.g. sideways,) i.e. is the tank almost sealed? 
3. Do you think we can make it "puff" by triggering the fan intermittently (with pulses) ? 


Here's what I got back from Harbormodels: 

_The unit will not turn off automatically when the fluid runs out. 
It cannot be set at much of an angle as the fluid will get into the fan 
If the fan is turned off for mom than a few seconds, the unit will melt_


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Massoth lists a pulsing super smoker, anybody tried it? Kind of expensive too, I recall $100.00USD or so. 

Michael


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Considering the power requirements, the amount of fluid and the heat generated, it would seem that this particular smoke unit would be more suited to a high-end brass engine like an Accucraft. If something were to go wrong and the unit melted, a plastic tender wouldn't have a chance whereas the brass tender would survive.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes that would be a concern of melting the boiler also. Not much of a price difference between the Harbor and the Massoth units. Lets see if anyone has bough the Massoth and tested for volume of smoke. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 19 Jan 2010 11:42 AM 
Yes that would be a concern of melting the boiler also. Not much of a price difference between the Harbor and the Massoth units. Lets see if anyone has bough the Massoth and tested for volume of smoke. Later RJD 

Ive got one of the Massoth units on order for my AML 0 6 0 that has a QSI card in it. I cant use the MTH units that i like so i hope this one will smoke decent? is a bit pricey.. i hope it doesnt take LGB smoke fluid, that would break my bank


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I saw a Massoth working at the NGRC in Denver. It looked good, but not as much smoke as the unit that started this thread. It does have the sync'd chuff and puff, which was very nice. Can't remember if it had specific fluid requirements.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I was looking on lionel's website to see if they had any parts for the old G scale atlantic. Lo and behold, they have an exploded diagram/photo of the O scale Atlantic, and there seems to be a TAS smoke unit in it










They list it as a $32 part


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It looks similar, but not exactly the same:










Might be worth a gamble for $32... 

Regards, Greg


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Lownote, 
Have you got a link for the above? Also, do you have a part number? Thanks 
Rich


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Got it by going to this page: 

http://www.lionel.com/CustomerService/findex.cfm 

And choosing "order replacement parts" and then entering 4-4-2 Atlanitc. It's the first one that comes up 

And entering "4-4-2-Atlantic" There's an option to open the exploded photo and part numbers are given. 

6301122200 - SMOKE UNIT ASSEMBLY / 6 ohm ANALOG


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you going to order the Lionel one then? I'd like to hear how wll it works. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I would not really know how to hook it up. But I'd like to get something better than the aristo units, which crap out after two minute. I've completely given up on them

I looked agan--there's a photo of the actual part. I think that's the TAStudios generator


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Massoth lists a pulsing super smoker, anybody tried it? Kind of expensive too, I recall $100.00USD or so. 


Here is a little video of one in my LGB Heidi. It's controlled by the Massoth XLS decoder and I really like it. When you back off or coast, the smoke and sound change because they are synchronized: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/co...I_4707.AVI


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, it might be made by TAS, but it's not the current / last design they sold for at least 5 years... that is the one in my picture... the housing is different, the microprocessor is in a different spot, and it says Lionel on the circuit board. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Cougar it looks good so may try that one as they are close by and I can just drive over to them and pick one up. Later RJD


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

I got one of the Harbor units that arrived today. After getting it and Im wondering how it can be put anyplace and be able to add fuel to it if you put any kind of extension on the smoke output orifice.
Any suggestions would be appreiated. Im a foll for differnt gadgets. Old F---T.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Would you mind giving us the actual measurements of the unit, including the fan? The web site lists as .75 x .75 x .6" .... I can see from the photo that's not possible. 

I would think you could easily put a pipe on it and extend it, because the videos on their site show extensions, with 1/2" brass pipe. You might also be able to remote the fluid, but my thoughts would be to locate in the tender and run a flexible tube up to the smoke stack. You probably need some heat resistant tubing. 

Regards, Greg


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## JLienau (Jan 20, 2008)

I have a MTH smoke unit installed in a Bachman ten wheeler.but I can't run it on my indoor layout as it fills the room with smoke in short order. Unfortunately its not in time with the Phoenix chuff


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg
It measures about 2 inches on each side, is about 1 1/2 inches deep . That is without the fan,that adds about 1 1/2 inches width. It is not small. Looks like it would fit in cab of the three truck shat.
I plan on putiing it in a pair of Alco that I have battery powered and have a dedicated power source for the smoke unit since i have a loot of room in the units. Will see.


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## robsmorgan (Nov 29, 2009)

Don't know if this is any help, but there is a version of the Massoth pulsed smoke generator available in the UK link:- 
www.dragon-gscale.co.uk/massoth-pulsed-smoke-generator-for-5-volt-and-19-volt-2344-p.asp 

so I guess you can get it in the US for $less !


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

That Harbormodels unit really moves some air, you should be able to do some really interesting things with that. 


I'm 100% with what we've got already, it already looks as realistic as I could hope for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr4_mxg7pqo - 2-8-0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM37srJ3Aqc - Aristocraft Mallets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUFTTyBFaYQ - GP38-2 with USA units (smoke volume output matched to diesel sound rev steps)


Raymond


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, the Massoth people are located in Cumming Georgia, about 8 miles from RJ. The thread was focused on the Harbor Models one. 

When you go to the Massoth site and go to the US part, you get the contact info and prices. 

I have a page on various smoke units, and links on where to buy them / get information. 

* http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/dcc-battery-rc-electronics-mainmenu-225/misc-electronics/smoke-units-mainmenu-208* 

Regards, Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

The best smoke unit on the market is


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Worth mentioning that you need to convert to DCS to run the MTH unit if you want chuffing. 

It's not a competition, but that Harbor Models puts out even more if "best" means "most smoke" 

The MTH units are indeed nice, but I heard they are almost impossible to buy by themselves. Has the situation changed or do I have bad data? 

Regards, Greg


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## robsmorgan (Nov 29, 2009)

Sorry Guys.... being a new boy here I diverted from the original thread..... BUT WOW! What system/kit are you using Chuck? I've never seen & heard anything so realistic - apart from the real thing! 

Regards 
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe it wasn't worth mentioning.... ha ha ha... 

See where I mentioned the MTH unit running under DCS.... MTH locomotive come with that smoke unit, and the Digital Command System (DCS) is thier proprietary control system that also controls the fan speed in the smoke unit. 

Greg


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## Johnn (Jan 5, 2010)

DCS seems to be far and above all other systems including Battery, Sorry just the way i see it. A freind of mine just received a Quote from a local RCS dealer and well 1500.00 per loco is insane ? Just goes to show dont always beleive whats advertised above? I'l stick with track power. Seems to be the Best way to get my train fix.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well this thread WAS about one particular smoke unit.... 

Would like to hear the progress on using it. 

Regards, Greg


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Got my Harbor models smoker today!! 
Here we go with the install into the BMANN K27(TAS quit working) 
Now comes the ? Using the aristo revo and their smokeboard will put almost full track voltage to the harbor unit(it says 12volt and use of 2amp /hr ) 
so i will use the Bmann smoke electronic (12 volt)and connect the Harbor unit to it. Will the output (unknown)have anough amps to handle that and if it starts smoking elsewhere besides the smoke stack,where would the weak spot be? 
2nd ?! What do i need to reduce the track voltage to 12volt and 2amps ? Is something on the marked i can buy or is there a parts list and a plan how to do that? 

No there is not enough room in the k27 boiler to mount that baby unless i cut off(or obtain an unassembled one) the fan and remount it!! 
So the tender will carry the smoker ,a black soft hose will connect the loco+tender all the way to the smoke stack (coupling between tender and loco) 
Manfred Diel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Danger! 

What track voltage you running? You will use a lot of wattage... watts is volts times amps... if you were running 24 volts on the track, and wanted to drop the voltage to 12 volts at 2 amps, you are dissipating 24 watts! That's a lot of heat. 

You could not use a voltage regulator... either a switching power supply or a big resistor... V=IR, so 12 = 2*R or the resistor would be 6 ohms and about 50 watts (a 24 watt resistor running at 24 watts would burn you and melt plastic)... 

I doubt seriously that there is any chance that the Bachmann "electronics" would do this for you. The easiest solution is a big resistor, and REMEMBER, there will still be 24 watts of heat produced... (again assuming 24 volts on the rails). 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Johnn on 29 Jan 2010 09:57 PM 
DCS seems to be far and above all other systems including Battery, Sorry just the way i see it. A freind of mine just received a Quote from a local RCS dealer and well 1500.00 per loco is insane ? Just goes to show dont always beleive whats advertised above? I'l stick with track power. Seems to be the Best way to get my train fix.



What exactly was that quote for?

What sort of loco?
Did it include sound? If so which brand of sound?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jeeze, this thread is about the harbor models smoke unit, not if RCS installs are too expensive or if DCS is better than something else... 

Manfred, what track voltage are you running? See my post 2 back for info. 

Regards, Greg


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

The best smoke unit on the market is? 

Chuck - watching your video, it looks like the smoke output is 10 or 15 degrees behind the valve events at front and back dead center. Clearly you should dump those systems and move to DCC... 

Ok, just kidding. 

But good work, you locomotive works fabulously well.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

I am using the elite power pack its 21 volts,i guess! 

Manfred Diel


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Thoughts....... 
I am using the revo to control the K27 ,the smokeboard/on/off..not much volume control, so what..............? 
i am using a second revo reciever with the non plug and play adaptor and use it to turn the smoke on +off and in between control the smoke output! 
First ,wire into the harbor unit a bridge rectifier (so it smokes in forward and (reverse(polarity) 
then i set the least smoke out put(starting voltage) next the most smoke output(12volt) 
next reduce the full speed to watever % above value given 
then MU the 2nd rec to the 1rst and ......a kind of smoke output which matches the speed of the loco(would be nice to incorporate the piston slap) 

Manfred Diel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

good idea, although not sure what the pwm output of the revo will do to the smoke unit... 

I have no clue what electronics are in that board, but certain electronics will see the pwm output at 21 volts. 

have you experimented yet? what do the specs say about max voltage? have you seen the electronics? is there a microprocessor? 

Regards, Greg


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Electronics? The whole case is sealed shut ,the only thing you see on electronics is an automotive fuse,some wire and a fan even looking inside the smokeunit with a small dental mirror does not reveal a thing!! So i guess i try my luck and hook everthing up in the K27.I not to much worried becouse the bench test worked great so hope fully on saturday at the train convention at south town expo in Sandy(UT) my fellow club members see the urge for a prolonged test to serve the MLS community,hee! 

Manfred Diel 

Bevor i forget ,Greg, the distributor of the unit mentioned in the manual some kind of speed control would work to regulate the output of the smoke but if run in reverse the heating element would burn out in a snap(thats taken care of with the install of a bridge rectifier(or diodes)

On the other hand...is there a easy electronic wich converts PWM to an flat non pulsed power??


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## trainpainter (May 24, 2009)

I bought the Lionel smoke unit mentioned earlier in this thread. Just received it yesterday and am very pleased, however no wiring instructions were included. Being as how Lionel is AC and not DC I don't want to burn this unit up wiring it incorrectly. It looks very similar to TA Studios Turbo smoke unit except it has a 4 pin plug whereas the TA unit has a 3 pin plug.
Anybody know how to wire this thing?
Thanks
Bill Nesbitt


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I would be very surprised it it ran on AC--Can you take some pictures of the board?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Could have a small FW bridge on it (which is probably why you asked for pictures). 

Yep a full on high res picture of the circuit board would be helpful. 

Regards, Greg


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

It can be run from at least 2-3 LM7812 regulators in parallel. Use the 1 amp or higher versions, they also make low power units which would smoke under that load. 
Since they would be putting off lots of heat, a decent heat sink and possibly a fan should be able to keep em cool. The regulators have built in over-temp shutdown as well, so if they start cutting in and out they are running too hot. 

JP


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, they will make heat. One downside of paralleling regulators, is if one shuts down, the other 2 would overload. My experience has been that the shutdown does not work great and usually you get melted plastic regulator as a result. (don't ask me how I know!) 

Regards, Greg


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Ah, releasing the built-in smoke, i have partaken in some electronics smoking as well. 

Which ever way it is done, any kind of linear regulation scheme will have ~24 watts of heat which will need to be cooled. Possibly need a blower or other means of lots of air flowing over the components to keep plastic from melting. 

JP


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, I said that 14 posts ago. 2 amps times 12 volts. 

Regards, Greg


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## trainpainter (May 24, 2009)

Hello all, 

Thanks for the response. I was very busy yesterday, but I will take some pictures today and try to put them on here. 
I've never posted photos here, or anywhere, B-4 before so I may need some help. As it's 7:30 am here it will be a few hours. 
Thanks for your help. 

Bill Nesbitt


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Since you are not a 1st class member, you need to get the pictures up on the internet somehow... if that is a pain, email them to me. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a bump--I'm interested in that Lionel/TAS smoke unit and might order some if they can be hooked up and someone figures out how


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike, they do not appear to be the same unit, they are not physically the same, and the connections are different. The TAS has a logic level input (that you pull to ground) to run the fan, plus a jumper selectable diesel mode. 

The Lionel unit has a 4 pin plug, and probably "direct drive" to the fan motor like the MTH unit does. 

Regards, Greg


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

--

Here is a schematic I drew from your verbal circuit description, voltage regulator not shown. Is this correct? I suspect that it is not but hopefully is close. From my reading about the LM3914 only one FET would be one at a time in dot mode and one or more in bar mode proportional to the voltage. (The datasheet I found did not elaborate.)

The amount of current thru the smoke unit would be a function of the value of the resistors so in dot mode only one resistor would be conducting. As the motor voltage goes up the next FET would turn on and previous one would turn off. The corresponding resistor value should be lower to allow more current to flow thru the smoker.

If I understand this circuit and IC correctly then if bar mode was used the same value resistor could be used and as more FET get turned on the resistors would be in parallel and the total resistance would decrease allowing more current to flow, thus more smoke to be generated.










Regarding the FETs, would they turn off on their own as the motor voltage drops or are pull down resistors needed on the gates?

I'm not an EE, but I am a ham so I have a little understanding of electronics. Correct me where I'm wrong and I'll fix he diagram. I have an application for a similar circuit so that has caught my interest. I just want to turn on a couple of LED's (headlights for a rail car) when a certain motor voltage is reached or exceeded and off when it drops below that level.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry to repost but above page didnot let me add Text!! Wonder if the plan works!

This is the succestion from an other forum reply regarding voltage control on the aristo revo+the harbor hobby smoke control,i am making progress on installing the smoke unit into the Bmann K27,i cut the fan of the unit and removed the mounting tabs so it will fit 2/3rds into the smoke box the fan will be mounteright above the metall weights ,i need to connect a flex hose between the unit and fan! I will take pics when everithing is lined up.The electronic(voltage control is still waiting for some easy fix(something like :...for dummys!)since i am only an hobby electrician and a 100 bucks a shot for a smokeunit which might smoke on the wrong end????

Manfred Diel


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## Shane (Jan 13, 2011)

Hi to all,

Just to let you know that I make and sell smoke generators here in Australia for model scale boats, I have two sizes which are standard and able to make units to your designs, Check out my website or I sell them on ebay. Heres a link to youtube with the small unit running http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3vpE0-ovlA ...

http://www.modelboatsandfittings.com/ 


Shane.. Model boats & Fittings


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All,

Does anyone have one of the newer USA engines (less than one year old)? I spoke to them and they have a new smoke unit ($24.95) and the circuit board that goes with it for $19.95. This smoke unit has a fan built into it and according to USA trains they say it produces a lot more smoke. Can anyone support this?


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By rreiffer on 18 Jan 2011 07:02 AM 
All,

Does anyone have one of the newer USA engines (less than one year old)? I spoke to them and they have a new smoke unit ($24.95) and the circuit board that goes with it for $19.95. This smoke unit has a fan built into it and according to USA trains they say it produces a lot more smoke. Can anyone support this?


bump that. I saw a video on youtube of a LGB locomotive ostensibly with a USA smoke generator hooked to a zimo board to sync the puffs with the chuffs. didnt look too shabby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKeHnltDTBA


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm unaware of a recent change in USAT smoke units. They did make a change quite a while ago from simple heaters (that look like a square flat pancake) to the motor driven ones that are powered from a separate board. 

You asked for locos less than a year old. Did USAT tell you when they made a production change, or is this just a guess to make sure you don't get NOS with the old type? 

I have both types in my USAT locos. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. the Zimo is bypassing any USAT electronics and powering the heating element and fan directly.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Greg, 

I spoke to USA Trains directly and they said they had changed out the smoke units for the new fan driven one about a year ago.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Funny, the fan driven ones have been around for a while, longer than that for sure. 

The statement seems to imply changing from non-fan driven to fan driven. 

Maybe they meant that the conversion to fan driven units for ALL models is now done. 

For years, some had the new units and some did not. 

I suspect that there is only one version of fan driven unit. 

Regards, Greg


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

so is MTH the only one that is proprietary that requires all MTH equipment (decoder sound everything) to make the smoke unit puff, whereas the others like Massoth, USA, and Aristo can be made to work with a variety of decoders and sound systems?


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

so is MTH the only one that is proprietary that requires all MTH equipment (decoder sound everything) to make the smoke unit puff, whereas the others like Massoth, Zimo, USA, and Aristo can be made to work with a variety of decoders and sound systems?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Rich, is there a stock/part number for this unit? A quick search of the site showed nothing other than fluid: 

http://www.usatrains.com/usatrainsparts.html

Thanks!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You really don't want to state/ask that question that way (it's not true, and it becomes confusing). 

1. There are decoders like Zimo that can DIRECTLY drive a heating element and a fan. These can be used with smoke units that have no "smarts" like the MTH, and can be adapted to bypass the electronics on others (like Aristo, new USAT, etc.) 

2. There are smoke units with smarts that control the fan and heater. in that they have constant output (smoke heat and fan). 

3. There are smoke units that have and input that can be pulsed to "chuff" or driven to simulate notches in speed of a diesel. 

So, back to your question, MTH is one of the smoke units that needs external smarts, no it is not the only one that requires support. You can use an MTH smoke unit with a Zimo decoder and I think Massoth and ESU. Aristo cannot do it. Your statement was confusing because you mixed smoke units and decoders as interfaces to a smoke unit or decoder... I'm even confused trying to straighten that one out.









Hope this helps. 

Greg 


Posted By TJH on 30 Jan 2011 06:32 PM 
so is MTH the only one that is proprietary that requires all MTH equipment (decoder sound everything) to make the smoke unit puff, whereas the others like Massoth, Zimo, USA, and Aristo can be made to work with a variety of decoders and sound systems?


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 30 Jan 2011 10:24 PM 
You really don't want to state/ask that question that way (it's not true, and it becomes confusing). 

1. There are decoders like Zimo that can DIRECTLY drive a heating element and a fan. These can be used with smoke units that have no "smarts" like the MTH, and can be adapted to bypass the electronics on others (like Aristo, new USAT, etc.) 

2. There are smoke units with smarts that control the fan and heater. in that they have constant output (smoke heat and fan). 

3. There are smoke units that have and input that can be pulsed to "chuff" or driven to simulate notches in speed of a diesel. 

So, back to your question, MTH is one of the smoke units that needs external smarts, no it is not the only one that requires support. You can use an MTH smoke unit with a Zimo decoder and I think Massoth and ESU. Aristo cannot do it. Your statement was confusing because you mixed smoke units and decoders as interfaces to a smoke unit or decoder... I'm even confused trying to straighten that one out.









Hope this helps. 

Greg 



Ok so which smoke units can be pulsed to chuff? USA, MTH, and Massoth only? And if I want to use another control and sound system besides that own manufacturers, what are my possible pairings? The one theme I had kept seeing throughout this thread was that MTH's smoke unit required MTH sound and MTH control system to get the pulse, and I much prefer Phoenix sound which I thought ruled it out. For the record, I'm all DC at the moment, but my best friend (and a very helpful Ph D engineering student) keeps pushing me towards some sort of DCC style system and these smoke units are quite impressive so I'm trying to figure out which might work with what system (he's a big Digitrax fan and keeps finding new ways to work that word into sentences whenever we talk about the train). Keep in mind that my motive power is mostly (old) LGB with the occasional Bachmman and maybe Aristo C-16 thrown in for now.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Literal answer is every unit can be pulsed to chuff... Read #1 again, depends on the effort you want to go to. 

Possible pairings? Way too many answers, for condition #1 ANY smoke unit with a Zimo or a Massoth decoder (I believe the Massoth has outputs, but needs confirmation). 

For condition #2, where the smarts are in the smoke unit, Massoth is the only answer in what you can purchase that I am awar of.. 

No you can use a MTH with a Zimo, as in #1. 

Yes, you should go DCC if you want stuff like this, listen to your best friend. Getting this type of thing to work in DC means at least "tweaking" it under DCC or MTH. 

The brand of control system (NCE, Zimo, Digitrax, Massoth) does not matter, you can use any control system with any modern DCC decoder. 

But if you want to stay DC and have pulsed smoke, I'd either go the Zimo route with a MTH smoke unit (The MTH units are not very expensive and one of the best smoke outputs.) 

or 

A Massoth smoke unit with chuff contacts on the loco. 

You have not explicitly mentioned sound. 

Greg


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

This Zimo/USA smoker looks great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHwo5LjNVBo 

Has anyone determined if this is the current USA unit? 

Alan


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Quite the smoker, and to quote Balrick, I think I have a cunning plan....


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By adelmo on 01 Feb 2011 06:02 PM 
This Zimo/USA smoker looks great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHwo5LjNVBo 

Has anyone determined if this is the current USA unit? 

Alan 
that does look quite impressive. not quite as good as the MTH shown earlier but then again that was being demoed inside whereas that is outside so tough to compare on which is better. as far as what smoke unit, it says in the video descrip "an USA Trains smoke unit (the same one as SD70, GP38 an so on) was placed inside." so I'm assuming it's the current one.


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

TJH: I have a MTH Big Boy and for outside that Zimo/USA smoker is better in my opinion. 

Special effects with the Zimo were cool too. 

Alan


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

On the USA unit you have to call them to get the part number as they are NOT on their web site. FYI


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By adelmo on 02 Feb 2011 06:35 AM 
TJH: I have a MTH Big Boy and for outside that Zimo/USA smoker is better in my opinion. 

Special effects with the Zimo were cool too. 

Alan 
yeah that backs up what I saw in my youtube search. the MTH one's seemed to dissipate more in the wind. what special effects did the Zimo provide?


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## gigawat (Apr 4, 2012)

Do you know what kind of smoke unit is used here? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m4JAz1p41KQ 

And

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BhH9HJiBRX4


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

One one of his videos he says it is home made, 20watt output, and he's using a Zimo decoder with sound on DCC. 

Regarding smoke makers, Massoth is now shipping their new version of their pulsed smoke maker--one is for analog users and one is specific to digital users. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It would be nice to start a new thread...since this old thread is on a particular product, and in the product reviews section.... oh well...

If you did a little research, you would see he modified the smoke unit (appears to be an MTH Hudson) by changing the resistors... says so in his caption on the video.

Then if you looked at his other videos, he shows you what he did....

*http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3_WdSFei2M*

(you know it took very little effort to find this)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Correction, it is a USAT Hudson.


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