# Coach Bolts



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

There I was, gluing pinheads and nbw castings (nbw = nut-bolt-washer) into holes in a wooden gate, when I remembered my very small bolts:










_The above pic is a sprue of nbw's next to the small bolt and the pinheads already glued into the gate.  Here's a close-up of a pin and an nbw:
_










It all seemed like a lot of work.  Why couldn't I just bolt them together?

Unfortunately, the bolts I have are normal 6-facet heads, not coach carriage bolts like the prototype.  Then, while unpacking my new tap-and-die set, I suddenly wondered if I could put a thread on a small brass pin?  I had some 00-90 nuts and washers, bought at Cabin Fever.  So, here's my first 00-90 thread project:










A coach carriage bolt!  Not sure I'm going to make a lot of these, but I bet I find a use for them somewhere.  To give you an idea of size, I went back and took a photo with a penny:


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

That's first-rate scratch building, Pete.  Hope you will show us some finished models which used them.

Llyn


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
Here is a trick I've used when in desperate,,, Buy those bolts a little longer than you need by about 1/4" 
Thread a nut on it, 
place a washer 
and then screw it into your project with the appropriate size wrench till you are about 1/4" from the nut. 
Take some hard clay and push the head of the bolt on it. 
Take a razor saw and with a couple of strokes, separate the bolt from the shaft so that the nut and washer remain. 
Its a little more expensive than threading your own, but saves a lot of time. I did it on the smoke box plate to Lanakila.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh,,, and isn't a carriage bolt,,, instead of a coach bolt?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 03/17/2008 5:56 PM
Oh,,, and isn't a carriage bolt,,, instead of a coach bolt?


Yes, of course it is.  I'm just a little dense sometimes (and I have 'senior moments'.)  I'll go back and no-one else will know...

Which bolts did you say you chopped on your loco?  I got lost (another 'senior moment', maybe?)


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
They were the front of the smoke box, but it looks like I got an old pic and you can't see,,, em. Darn. Anyways, this only works if you don't care about the other side of the bolt,,, your way does make it look like a carriage bolt, but I am sorta reaching senior brain function now and thought by coach bolt you meant a truss type appearance with a nut and a washer, wasn't till I posted that I realized you meant a carriage bolt, in which case, your solutions is great.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Pete, if I didn't know better, I'd think those are end gates for an EBT flat.  I've got to get some 00-90 screws at some point. They're just too useful for small details like that. I'd think it might be just as easy to get a pan-head screw and sand the top down to the appropriate shape. That saves having to find brass pins with the appropriate shank size for threading. It took me long enough to find a source of wire just right for threading 0-80 screws. (Concrete rebar tie wire--look for it at Lowes. More on a spool than you'll use in a lifetime--and should you need to build a bridge... ) 

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 03/17/2008 11:30 PM
Pete, if I didn't know better, I'd think those are end gates for an EBT flat.
I've got to get some 00-90 screws at some point. They're just too useful for small details like that. I'd think it might be just as easy to get a pan-head screw and sand the top down to the appropriate shape. That saves having to find brass pins with the appropriate shank size for threading. It took me long enough to find a source of wire just right for threading 0-80 screws. (Concrete rebar tie wire--look for it at Lowes. More on a spool than you'll use in a lifetime--and should you need to build a bridge...  ) 

Later, 

K


_End gates?  What an idea!
_I was following your way of threading some rod to make the supports, but I used the Heimburger drawing and, after drilling the holes, realised the supports are outside, not inside the side frame, and in any case with the holes where I drilled them I can't put the supports inside.  So my beautiful nuts will be almost invisible. (Pics later when the sun comes out.)

The 00-90 stuff is expensive but it looks good.  I paid about $7 for a pack of a dozen nuts at Cabin Fever - microfasteners has packets of 50 for the same price but then you pay shipping.

I splurged on the Micromark packs of brass rod when I bought the taps, so I'm all set for a few months.  The small brass pins that I threaded were solid brass eschutcheon pins, which are getting hard to find.  (Most are brass plated these days.)  The #18 size are perfect for 00-90 threads.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Pete, the drawings in Heimberger's book are wrong relative to the supports from the side. If you look on page 133 of Rainey and Kyper, there's a photo of a string of these cars that show the diagonals going to the inside of the sides of the end gates. I ran them to the outside on the first set of end-gate flats I built a while back (long-since retired), but always thought something was hinky with the geometry, given that the inside of the vertical support would be in line with the outside of the side sill. 

Later, 

K


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 03/17/2008 3:31 PM


There I was, gluing pinheads and nbw castings (nbw = nut-bolt-washer) into holes in a wooden gate, when I remembered my very small bolts:



_The above pic is a sprue of nbw's next to the small bolt and the pinheads already glued into the gate.  Here's a close-up of a pin and an nbw:
_



It all seemed like a lot of work.  Why couldn't I just bolt them together?

Unfortunately, the bolts I have are normal 6-facet heads, not coach carriage bolts like the prototype.  Then, while unpacking my new tap-and-die set, I suddenly wondered if I could put a thread on a small brass pin?  I had some 00-90 nuts and washers, bought at Cabin Fever.  So, here's my first 00-90 thread project:



A coach carriage bolt!  Not sure I'm going to make a lot of these, but I bet I find a use for them somewhere.  To give you an idea of size, I went back and took a photo with a penny:




Great tip. We always had boxes of carriage bolts in the workshop when I was a kid, but I've never seen them available to the hobbyist.


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Great tip. We always had boxes of carriage bolts in the workshop when I was a kid, but I've never seen them available to the hobbyist. They'll be easier to make, too, in 7/8ths scale.

Thanks, Pete

pete


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 03/18/2008 9:45 AM
Pete, the drawings in Heimberger's book are wrong relative to the supports from the side. If you look on page 133 of Rainey and Kyper, there's a photo of a string of these cars that show the diagonals going to the inside of the sides of the end gates. 




Excuse me, but the drawing I used was attributed to the same Mr Rainey! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif  Just goes to show you need to inspect all the evidence./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif   Now I need some tree branches to use in the sockets - roll on summer.

_Guess we should take this stuff offline - not many of these guys cares about where EBT had their end gate supports!_


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Of course, that assumes the evidence isn't muddy in and of itself. Look at the 3rd car in that consist. The braces _do_ go to the outside. They go to the inside on the 1st and 4th cars (the 2nd one doesn't have end gates). From the angle of the photo, I confused the forward end gate of the 4th car with the rear end gate of the 3rd car, which made it appear to go to the inside as it does on the other cars. It never fails--you can look at a photo 100 times, and not notice something until the 101st. Note also the different construction of the end gates on the 4th car--almost solid planking, minimal spacing between the boards. 

Later, 

K

(Apologies for the in-depth look at photos most of y'all don't have in front of you.)


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The pic is actually a very interesting NG train, so I thought I'd post it for us all to share.  (Apologies/credit to Mr Rainey & Mr Kuyper.)  Two steel boxcars, four flats with end gates, two more wooden boxcars, six hoppers with white ganister rock, a lot of coal in hoppers, and the caboose (you'll recognize it as the one Bachmann have been selling for years.)










Here's a close-up of the flatcars in question.  Mr K has better eyes than I do...


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