# 2-8-8-2 Mallet VS 4-8-8-4 Big Boy



## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

I bought an Aristo-Craft 2-8-8-2 Mallet about a year ago from a dealer who had a deal if you bought one for their sale price, they'd throw in 2 pieces of rolling stock for free. I was in heaven. It's still in the box and has never been used. I bought it rather than a 4-8-8-4 Big Boy because it was only $463.00 rather than $2,500 or more, even on eBay. I'd rather have 5 Mallets than 1 big boy just because I'm a poor man in a rich man's hobby and will never be able to afford a Big Boy anyway. I already have neighborhood kids showing up at my door asking to see my pond and/or the trains so I try to impress them. In order for me to impress them with my Mallet, I'll need to complete my mainline, 500 feet long with mostly 15' curves but a few 8 footers too. I am, however, disabled and can only go out and work for 20-30 minutes at a time before I must go back in the house and collapse for the rest of the day. So my mainline remains a dream. In the meantime, I've been studying up on the real things and their pulling power, usage, locale, etc. and from what I've read, the 2-8-8-2 never pulled loads anywhere close to the Big Boy's. And the Big Boy pulled freight up Ogden canyon in Utah (where I live) and others too I'm sure, but not the 2-8-8-2.

What all this is leading up to is a question. Has anyone done or read about any tests on the pulling power of the Aristo-Craft 2-8-8-2 Mallet VS the 4-8-8-4 USA Bog Boy? Someone on the internet called the USA Big Boy the most powerful G scale loco ever made. One example to back that up on You Tube is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhQMqKl38wU shown pulling 157 cars all by its lonesome. He says: "We feel the Big Boy could have pulled more than the 152 cars you see here, but some of the couplers kept failing. The presure of 406 pounds on the first 20 cars is tremendous! It took us (9) takes just to get these (3) video segments because of the coupler problems. If we could solve the coupler problem, I really think the Big Boy could be pulling close to 200 cars all by itself! So we will work on that for a future pull." I believe him but would love to find out exactly how powerful they both are. On You Tube, there are videos galore of both locos, especially the Big Boy, but not much on the pulling power of both. 

As for size in G scale, in the ads, they say the 2-8-8-2 is 29" long (very impressive to me) but that must be without the tender because my box alone is about 29" long and it contains the engine and tender side by side, while the USA Big Boy is 57" long. I don't have a big boy to put next to my Mallet so I don't know why the Big boy is so much longer. So, if you have both, give me measurements of both and tell me your likes and dislikes of both. Especially, I'd like to hear about any pulling contests. I don't plan to run more that 15-20 cars at a time so it doesn't really matter. I'm just curious is all. FESTUS


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

Its all about weight. If the Mallet weighted as much as the Big Boy, it would pull alot more. It has smaller drivers and is geared lower and better traction, because it doesn't have stainless steel wheel treads on them. We put an old lead window weight in one of my Mallets and we pulled up to 180 cars and quit because we started breaking couplers. We also put it up against a Big Boy and it won in a tug of war. It drug the Big Boy backwards, even though it still didn't weight as much with just the one weight in it.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have an Aristo Mallet, but not a Big Boy. Several years ago I measured the pulling power of some of my engines. The mallet had a pulling power of 5 pounds and it weights about 14 pounds. That is about 36% of the engine weight. All of the engines that I measured without traction tires had an average pulling power of about 33% of the engine weight. 


I am assuming that you are talking about the USAt Big Boy (you don't mention the brand). That engine is a heavy one, I think that it is on the order of about 75 or more pounds, not counting the tender. That would indicate that it would have a draw bar pull of abut 25 pounds. That is 5 times the pull of the mallet.


I can pull 32 LGB iron ore cars, a battery car and a caboose with the mallet and it doesn't have any problems with a 1% grade or anywhere else on Dr. Rivets layout. On my layout I have pulledl 20 cars, haven't tried the full consist. I have 10' diameter curves and a short 3% grade. No problems there either.

If you have physical limitations, you might be better off with the Mallet and the USAt Big Boy is really heavy.

Chuck


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

I am going to talk MTH 1/32 Big Boy vs 1/32 MTH Triplex (a modified Mallet)....... pulling power.... 

I own both engines & now I am just getting both to run thru my 340 ft of Stainless 332 track & R7 Trainline 45 switches... and grade changes 

using 12 ft min Diameter curves. Per Ray Manley (Kansas).... the MTH 1/32 Big Boy pulls at 7 Lbs of force...... 

the MTH 1/32 Triplex pulls at 5.5 Lbs of force..... I am having coupler problems on grade changes using a mix of MFG G couplers.... 

I have a long way to go to run longer 20 car trains on grades..... on my folded dog bone 215 ft super loop...... 

Double Click on my "logo" picture to the left to see my elevated curved ladder Garden RR..... 4 photos... 

Dennis M from GBay, WI


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Santa Fe:

Whose Big Boy were you using? MTH or USAt or ? There is a real difference in weight. If it was an MTH I can understand your results. If it was a USAt I'm very confused, from its weight it should be able to pull stumps.


Chuck


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

This is the link where the guy says the Big Boy is the best loco ever, and I believe him, but if I can get my Mallet to pull a bit more, then I'm happy. If someone brings his Big Boy over, expecting it to kill my Mallet, but it gives the Big Boy a real run for its money instead, then I'll be happy. I was talking about the USA Big Boy because that's the one these people on You Tube claim is the better loco; better than the MTH model: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTuL5ejsCGE&list=FL9634EY2HPEhCADBUO73slQ&index=6&feature=plpp_video "This video shows an incredible USA Train Big Boy pulling everything in sight! This is without doubt the best G scale Big Boy on the market today. No one else even comes close! Thanks for watching. Dennis" So where do I add the weight? How much weight? 

Also, the photos I've seen elsewhere on this site and others, that show a Big Boy on tight curves where the front is off the track completely really makes the Big Boy look ridiculous, so perhaps I ought to stick with my Mallets anyway. 

One more: If I decide to go with battery power including my Aristo-Craft 2-8-8-2 Mallet, if I really put a load on it, will it burn the battery out a lot quicker with a huge load? FESTUS


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Before you try adding weight to your mallet, I suggest you pull off all the wheels, and lap them to the axles, and then use some blue loctite on the axles and the tip of the screw. 

All Aristo locos have a habit of "slipping" drivers, and if you are trying to pull heavier loads than they can do stock, you are asking for trouble without ensuring you won't have driver slip. 

When the driver does slip, you can break siderods or tear up gearboxes. 

You can read my site about the "prime mover"... 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Festus:

The Aristo Mallet should pull 15-20 cars without any problem. As I said in my earlier post mine pulls 32 LGB iron ore cars, a battery car (heavy) and a caboose. All have metal wheels, no ball bearings.

It does this without any problems. I have run that train for about two hours on battery and no sign of it slowing down or loosing power. My guess is that I should get about 3 hours of run time before I would have to swap out a battery pack.


I am using an Aristo Revolution for control and Cordless Renovations CR-1705 battery pack (18.5v and 5600mah).

Chuck 


Here is a picture of the ore train.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Festus on 11 Jun 2012 11:36 AM 
{snip}One more: If I decide to go with battery power including my Aristo-Craft 2-8-8-2 Mallet, if I really put a load on it, will it burn the battery out a lot quicker with a huge load? FESTUS
Festus, just my thought on the battery size for the Mallet. 

Yes, you will put a heavier draw on the battery as you may have to increase the voltage going from the controller to the motors and may shorten the run time to a degree. How much is not really known unless you would run some tests with different voltages mah packs.

Saying that, I would recommend Li-ion 18.5 volt batteries of 8400 mah or 11200 mah in size. They pull the heavier loads very well and you get run times. I've been using both sizes in place of the 5600's. 

The packs are from _Cordless Renovations__. _


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have run both of my Mallets with 30 cars and have had no problems even with the weight I have added to them. They are good running locos especially if you have the newer version. Depending on the type of battery you are using and the load you can drain the battery pretty quick. More cars the less run times. As Stan says go with the bigger Batteries and you will get better run times. Later RJD


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

This pretty much answers things...
MTH Big Boy vs. Aristo Mallet


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes! I was thinking of Rayman's video. 


I have a "high mileage" mallet and love it.


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

Question: Why spend $2,500 on one 75 lb USA Big Boy instead of 5 Aristo-Craft 2-8-8-2 Mallets or if you were careful, 6 or 7 very nice diesels on eBay? What's the point? Bragging rights ain't worth $2,500.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The AristoCraft Mallet is based upon the N&W Y6a. I think that it is generic for most if not all of the other road names. My B&O mallet has very little in common other than the wheel arrangement, 2-8-8-2, with Mallets of a similar wheel arrangement that ran on the B&O.. It came from Aristo with a Vanderbilt tender. None of the pictures I could find showed it with a Vanderbilt. The front low pressure cylinders don't match either. I imagine there are some road names from Aristo that never had one of these Mallets.

The BBs were made for only one railroad, the UP. The USAt BBs are highly detailed, much more than the Aristo Mallet. 

I have the USAt Hudson. It is also highly detailed. Much more so than the Aristo Mallet and Mikado (that I also have).

I don't run any trains from UP on my railroad. That plus the weight is why I was never interested in getting one. It is a beautiful engine, but not for me. I someone made a Yellowstone, I'd probably get it. I need one for my iron ore train.

If you model the UP, that would be a reason to get one. As I said earlier, I don't, so I won't.

Chuck


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I have B&O, C&S, D&RGW, Rock Island and a Santa Fe. So, I don't model any particular road or even area of the country. I run what I like. As for having 5-7 other locomotives for what the Big Boy cost, it's all comes down to which do you want more. For me, if I had the layout to run the Big Boy, I'd rather have it than the 5-7 others.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, two years later and the questions still have not been answered.

Festus, what is it that you want? I just cannot understand, do you want someone to tell you that owning 5 mallets is better than one USAT big boy?

Everyone's priorities are different. If you want the most pulling power per dollar, go Aristo, buy as many as you need to put in one consist to pull what you want.

If you want a specific model, then maybe you do have to spend 2500, and the USAT detail hardware, drivetrain, smoke unit and sound unit beat the Aristo.

Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Good luck with those Aristo Mallets as when they break down where ya' gonna find the parts?

With my pair of USA Big Boys all I have to do is call Charles Ro and get my parts


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Are you here for bragging rights?

Because they can.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

So far so good. My Mallet is working. My Aristo mikado didn't. It runs, but if you look closely, the drive rods aren't what they are supposed to be.

My USAt Hudson is a beautiful model. I'd like a USAt mallet, but at my age I'm not sure I could move it out to the track. Those suckers are heavy.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

He hates Aristo John, never misses an opportunity to rag on them. Funny though, he was big MTH supporter, and was pooping all over the USAT Hudson, but now he loves their BB.

Must be "loyalty of the month club"

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

My post was directed towards the OP .... timing dropped it a space.

I remember when I thought it was important to 'defend' 1:24, now a daze I don't care. 
I see the question as being for Bragging rights and nothing more....
My Buick does everything your Caddy does; justify the added expense....

John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Move along folks!!

...jus a good 'ol fashion dead horse here..nuting special...

Keep moving....please stop rubber necking folks!!!!

LOL!!!

FESTuS. If n ya want a BIG BOY...go buy one before they are sold out n gone fer good!!

Did ya ever get any mainline built....been over two years buddy!!????

..that's right folks move along.........



.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys, please chill. After 30+ years in this hobby,there are no absolutes. Everyone comes into the hobby with different experiences, skills, local environment, and knowledge. What works for some may not be appropriate for others. Presenting options is what helps. Try to temper them.

Chuck

PS I have both USAt and Aristo stock. More USAT than Aristo, because USAt came out with stock that I liked better. I've had problems with both. Diesel gears and fragile detail parts on USAt and drive axles on my Aristo Mikado. No manufacturer is immune. I've repaired LGB, Bachmann, and Accucraft as well. Such is our scale. I'm not into live steam, so I haven't had to deal with those manufacturers.
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Note added much later, this post was a response to a post that has since disappeared. Thank you, moderators. Civil communication will help everyone.


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