# phony buyer?



## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

I went through that BS once before:
Hello Seth Morrell


Thanks for the e-mail, I'm okay with the condition and as for the
price i will offer you $2000 to keep other interested buyers from it
and count it sold to me and remove the advert off the sites

But i will be leaving my home town state tomorrow to United Kingdom
for a speculative purpose with our company and board of directors. As
per payment i will have to instruct my Client to send you a certified
check via ups or usps courier service which will take only 3-5
business working days to get to you. cos this is the only means of
payment I can offer you now due to my present departing schedule. And
you should not worry about the shipping i have my shipper that will
come down to your location for the pickup as soon as payment is done
and clarified.



So to make payment out to you, you'll have to email me:



1,Name To Be Written On Check..........................

2,Full Contact Address,City,State and Code To Send The
Check.............................

3,Your Contact Telephone Number..........................



Awaiting to read from you.



Sincerely,

Frank Mark.


























On 8/19/09, allsteam wrote:
> Hi Frank! LA will sell for $ 1700.00 + shipping+insurance! Thanks ,Manfred
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "frank mark" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:45 AM
> Subject: Americanized Lady Anne with tender and RCS Remote Control - $1700Hello Seth Morrell


Thanks for the e-mail, I'm okay with the condition and as for the
price i will offer you $2000 to keep other interested buyers from it
and count it sold to me and remove the advert off the sites

But i will be leaving my home town state tomorrow to United Kingdom
for a speculative purpose with our company and board of directors. As
per payment i will have to instruct my Client to send you a certified
check via ups or usps courier service which will take only 3-5
business working days to get to you. cos this is the only means of
payment I can offer you now due to my present departing schedule. And
you should not worry about the shipping i have my shipper that will
come down to your location for the pickup as soon as payment is done
and clarified.



So to make payment out to you, you'll have to email me:



1,Name To Be Written On Check..........................

2,Full Contact Address,City,State and Code To Send The
Check.............................

3,Your Contact Telephone Number..........................



Awaiting to read from you.



Sincerely,

Frank Mark.


























On 8/19/09, allsteam wrote:
> Hi Frank! LA will sell for $ 1700.00 + shipping+insurance! Thanks ,Manfred
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "frank mark" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 7:45 AM
> Subject: Americanized Lady Anne with tender and RCS Remote Control - $1700
>
>
>> Dear Seller,*
>>
>> *I'm Frank Mark residing at 620 East Adams Street.Rhoda Island, i saw
>> your item posted for sale at the ads website,and i am willing to
>> purchase your ( Americanized Lady Anne with tender and RCS Remote
>> Control - $1700 ) posted for sale, so i want you to kindly get
>> back to me with its present status of condition and your last selling
>> price offer that you are willing to let it go.
>> Many Thanks,
>> Frank Mark
>
>
>
>> Dear Seller,*
>>
>> *I'm Frank Mark residing at 620 East Adams Street.Rhoda Island, i saw
>> your item posted for sale at the ads website,and i am willing to
>> purchase your ( Americanized Lady Anne with tender and RCS Remote
>> Control - $1700 ) posted for sale, so i want you to kindly get
>> back to me with its present status of condition and your last selling
>> price offer that you are willing to let it go.
>> Many Thanks,
>> Frank Mark
>


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Just got one of those a couple day ago for a lawn mower. He would even give $50.00 more then I was asking!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wonder when the scam surfaces? 

Maybe there will be a request for some funds to clear the processing of the check, or something similar.. 

does sound phony... 

Regards, Greg


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

CERTIFIED CHECKS ARE BY NO MEANS SECURE PAYMENT. You may find out up to two weeks after deposit that the check is returned to your bank for non-payment from the issuing bank, usually because the check was stolen or is counterfeit. Of course, two weeks after you deposited the check, you have stopped worrying and sent the goods on their way or they are already in the hands of the scammer. Also note that the e-mails usually have poor or somewhat awkward grammar (1st red flag!). Also there have been reports of Money Orders and Bank Checks that have been copied and re-created on personal computers. 
For reference and more advice, please read this - http://www.ehow.com/how_2254734_avo...scams.html 

Al


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

This one is such an obvious scam as to be a complete joke! Blow this bum off!!


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## 2footdrive (Jun 4, 2009)

Its time to have some fun with this guy. Of course do not give him any information that is tru, but keep him stringing along by tell him that your moving or you don't have a bank that will accept a cashier check. Ask for more money then he's offered because you have another buyer offering even more but you have to wait... 

Dan


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

See how he reacts to; Have your shipper bring cash, send him your check....


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

I still have the check this Jerk fedext priority to my office: the shipping address on the envelope is legitimate( "TEST HEAD ENG INC 14395 EDGEWOOD RD RODGERS MN 55374)the address to ship the train to is an address somewhere in the wild,the checks address :Shannon Yokeum 150 Continental Street apt B 10 Anderson SC 29625 and now the Bank address SUNTRUST BANK 130 Connecticut LN,Belton SC 29627 !!!! Google That one! 

MANFRED DIEL


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, a house out by itself on the highway... you can even see a semi truck in the driveway... 

sounds like a phoney check... funny, wonder what the real suntrust bank at 208 Anderson St, Belton, SC 29627-1942 (864) 338-7718 would do if you faxed a copy of that check to them? 

probably nothing... maybe fax a copy to the police department there? 

Regards, greg


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

According to the law its not a crime to write out a phoney check,its a crime cashing it in! 

Manfred Diel 
Not much harm done exccept ill missed getting a C 21 from MLS member(needed the cash to pay) 

The good thing I learned to spellhoney: Thanks Greg!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

By sending it to you with the purpose of you cashing it and thus being defrauded, it _becomes_ illegal and because it was done through the mail it now could be considered felony mail fraud and _that_ is a major league no no!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd turn him in...


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

You should accept the check, when you get it call the bank and verify the check and buyer. Thenexplain the situation. It seems fraud to me and it had happened to me on a sale of a tube amp. The check I got was for 1500 more and he said it was a mistake and that he said to hold on to it then western union the difference.. I sent all the info emails and check to the bank. They opened a fraud file and said they already had a few other checks from the same company with the same fraud.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Since the check has the wrong address on it, it's clearly fraud, go right to the cops... 

Why even go to the bank? They will say: that's not our address.... remember the admonition to google the address? 

The address of the bank on the check is not the address of the bank... fraud... by mail, mail fraud, felony.... go to the cops.... or the feds... 

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Aug 2009 12:10 PM 
Yep, a house out by itself on the highway... you can even see a semi truck in the driveway... 

sounds like a phoney check... funny, wonder what the real suntrust bank at 208 Anderson St, Belton, SC 29627-1942 (864) 338-7718 would do if you faxed a copy of that check to them? 

probably nothing... 



Regards, greg 


Yup....as a longtime (former) Sun(un)Trust customer......


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Go to basics, 

Get the money by whatever means, deposit same, verify the deposit and then ship the goods as per contract and with insurance / proof. Cost to customer's account and prepaid. 

Here there needs to be a relationship between buyer and seller. I have made several purchases on-line by this method. I trusted the seller. 

Realistically, PayPal is a viable option. Protects both the buyer and seller. 

gg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ummm....gg? I think that the problem's that there _is_ no money to get! The check is worthless!! How can you get the money? A phoney address is being used so giving this bum the benefit of the doubt would definitely NOT be _my_ first choice!! Paypal would be the only way I would go other than cold hard cash in hand but even Paypal wouldn't be an option with this guy (at least for me!)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe some people overlooked this... on the check, the address of the bank is wrong... that makes it a fraudulent check, and who would intending giving you money if they forged a fake check... it's not just a bad check with no funds, it a forgery of a real check... I put the real address on a post, and the person who started the thread posted the BANK address shown on the check. 

You can google the real bank address, and use google maps to see that the bank is at that address. The fraudlent address is out of town on an isolated farm... you can see the house. 

Regards, Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Could it be a branch bank?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jeeze, just google (google maps) the address yourself, you can see the property is not a bank, there is even a street view of the house with a Semi truck tractor in the driveway... 

Am I the only person that went to the 30 seconds of effort it took to determine this? 

SUNTRUST BANK 130 Connecticut LN,Belton SC 29627

put the address without the business name into google maps...

if you put the name in, it will show you the real Suntrust Bank on a street in the town, a different, legitimate address. 


Greg


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

The bank knows by the routing number what account its pulling from and where. Even if the address is bogus the accounts have to check out otherwise the check will not deposit when you go to the bank nevermind wait for it to clear. Does this guy still think you are waiting for it to clear? Get as much info you can from him, Does his shipping address check out?? Ask for a phone number incase you neeed it when you ship the "package" Call the Sunbank and speak to the fraud dept, at least they will open the file and look to see whos account is being defrauded and alert them incase he wrote other checks already. 

When it happened to me the bank told me that it was a valid corprate account with plenty of money. Though the check will clear if I cashed it, the money would be auto debited back days after it clearing.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

If you don't want to deal with this guy then send the check back with instructions that it has to be a money order or Paypal. Explain that there were "irregularities" with the information provided so cashing a check is out of the question. Personally, I'd still send it in to the authorities....


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

"Am I the only person that went to the 30 seconds of effort it took to determine this?"... Greg 

Yes and it took you long enough to supply the results!!! lol 

We want it yesterday!!! We want it now! 

Anybody can scan and retouch and print a check. 

I'd be tempted to open an act just for that funny money and see what happens, but if you're an ebay seller would the waiting affect your rating? 

I had a similar experience although not about trains... the person found out I used to make jewelry and suddenly I was getting the 'My client has authorised me to send you a check for $5.000' as a down payment on 15 inlay bracelets. I had shown one I built for my mother... Never offered to make more, especially not like Mom's! 

When I refused the check and even refused to contact to check issuer by email, the abuse started flying... My take on the abuse was; how dare you be smarter than me? Well I was and said No Thanks. 

John


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok Not trusting Google nor most other online mapping websites to find the correct address I find tow others (Yahoo maps & Acme mapper) that can not find the supplied address but are close to where Greg is looking online. Out in the country and definetly NOT a branch address LOL! the ACME Mapper address even shows some interesting things around the area that the Yahoo map does not. http://mapper.acme.com/ 

Actually the address Google Shows is up the road from Connecticut LN. LOL So scrollign around the photos that show Calhoun Rd and NOT Ct Ln. There is also a Truck and a minivan near the house. LOL! Hmm True ******* & a process servers delight. Wonder where the dogs are? This guy is headed for his home in England? 


Chas 

Chas


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

In case you missed this same thing was on the news the other day as a scam. Later RJD


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## rcpilot2 (Aug 13, 2009)

Phony buyer? 

In my book there is no doubt about it. The buyers instructions to the seller have "scam" written all over it. 

Offering more than the asking price = scam 
Giving them personnal information so their "client" can send you payment = scam 
Having their "shipper" come to your location for item pickup = scam 

This could be more commonly referred to as "phishing" or enticing the seller into a transaction to get personnal information that can or would be very costly to the seller if the seller follows thru. 

Knock on wood (knuckles hitting head) I haven't been taken advantage of yet. 
Although there are many sources available, the one I use to spot those "red flags" is from the jenny-lakes 13 red flags that is used on ebay. 

Take a look at it as it will clear up any doubt about scam operating tactics. 
It has been very helpful as I,ve had this happen also. 

Dick


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

My comment about it being a possible branch bank is based on two things... 

1) Google Earth at one time put my address in a farm field about 20 miles west of where I live. They also had where I work(ed) completely missplaced. Granted, those things have been corrected, but they left me with a serious question whenever I look something up using their system.

2) I keep trying to think like a crook and can't come up with a reason to make a fake check and change the address of the bank! Is the crook so stupid to do that? Why? 

In thinking of what the reasons could be as to why they would change the address I can only come up with more stupidity. Let's see... Most of you are (possibly rightfullly... I don't deny that this whole thing smells fishy as well as phishy) assumming that the address given and the one found in Google Earth are one and the same and are implying that maybe it is the address of the assummed crook... That sounds like a really stupid crook to me! (Not that being a crook is all that smart and there are plenty of annecdotal evidence of crooks doing some really stupid things... such as putting their real return address on an extortion letter, etc. or becoming confused by a fast-food clerk claiming they cannot open the cash register unless they order something.)

I "AGREE" this doesn't sound "right", but I also don't think I have all the information to draw a real conclusion.

Hey, maybe he changed the address so that if you contacted the bank by letter it would not be delivered... but I wonder, would the post office just look at the name of the bank and send it to the correct address regardless of what you printed as the address on the envelope... (I have gotten missaddressed mail that way!) My mortgage company has a dozen addresses in the same city and another couple dozen addresses in other cities and I have had to send correspondence to several of them to accomplish a change to my account... not all of them handle all changes and NONE of them are smart enough to forward a letter to the correct department!

Maybe he put his ex-wife's address on it so she would get in trouble if someone investigated.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rcpilot2 on 27 Aug 2009 08:48 AM 
Phony buyer? 

In my book there is no doubt about it. The buyers instructions to the seller have "scam" written all over it. 

Having their "shipper" come to your location for item pickup = scam 


Dick 













True in most cases. The one case that did work was a rare pre WWII Marklin piece a friend sold on eBay, and the buyer (Dutch) had it picked up by a third party (cash in hand) from my friend's house in the states to be shipped with other items to go to the Netherlands.


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By lotsasteam on 25 Aug 2009 01:18 PM 
According to the law its not a crime to write out a phoney check,its a crime cashing it in! 

Manfred Diel 
Not much harm done exccept ill missed getting a C 21 from MLS member(needed the cash to pay) 

The good thing I learned to spellhoney: Thanks Greg!


The act of presenting the check to a person, Uttering in legalese, in many states constitutes a fraud, as in Uttering a forged document....fyi


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## GrdnRxR (Jun 14, 2008)

This is a scam. I have been a police officer for over 20 years. I have seen this time and time again. Some are really good. The check is sometomes from a real business and drawn on a real bank, but somewhere in the past the checks were stolen or forged. usually there are several addresses involved, the buyer is in one location, the check is from another and the shipping address is another..

Don't be a fool................


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Semper... unless I misunderstand, the phony address of the bank is ON THE CHECK, and you will see the REAL address of the bank if you google and it is NOT out of town but in the middle of town. 

Gosh, do I have to do everything to show that the bank address on the check is phony? Maybe it's another branch? In a town the size of a teacup? Oh the address might be off? By several miles on another street? 

You guys like me to do all the goggling... I'm going to start charging!

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Fascinating... I looked up the address on the check using Google Earth and found a nice looking house. Granted... ain't no bank.

Then I looked up the address Greg gave as the one of the bank that he got when he searched for their name... Hmmm... I see a tire company, a gas station, an oil company and what looks like an auto repair shop. Ain't no bank there either!

Now, while I believe the transaction is a scam, given what little I know about it, third hand and all. I still wonder why a crook would go to all the trouble to create a check on a bank and get the address wrong on it. I wonder what this check looks like... Is it on safety paper, that which shows erasures and such? Does it have the bank OCR numbers printed with magnetic ink?

I still say that banks often use more than one address; such as for different branches, or different departments, etc. I know my mortgage company has two addresses that are adjacent walls of the same building on the corner of a two streets, and that the letters I sent to two individuals at that bank at the two different addresses could have shaken hands over the cubical walls! ONE bank, ONE Building, TWO addresses. 

So the check having an address that does not match the Googled address of the bank does not automatically raise a red flag to me. The rest of the story certainly does raise red flags to me. And if the check is not real, then the act of sending it to someone as payment for goods is the first attempt to "cash" it, it is a furtherance of the FRAUD if the receiver of the check passes it on knowing that it is not a real check.

Is this maybe bigger than we are thinking? Did the crook create a web presence for the bank and supplied the address that Greg found? Curiouser and curiouser!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I just went a block west of the address given and found a SunTrust bank... so it is at least NEAR the address Greg gave. 

EDIT: I should clarify... the address Greg found has a building close to the spot that Google Earth shows... 

The address on the check still appears to be wrong. I ask that the original poster, please verify the address on the check is what has been printed here.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 27 Aug 2009 05:57 AM 
If you don't want to deal with this guy then send the check back with instructions that it has to be a money order or Paypal. Explain that there were "irregularities" with the information provided so cashing a check is out of the question. Personally, I'd still send it in to the authorities....

Even money orders are suspect.. My bank won't release the funds from a MO until it clears the other bank because of this kind of fraud...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jeeze... there is only one suntrust bank in Belton... I went to their web site, then looked up their branches... 

not the dumb map... 

Belton 
208 Anderson Street 
Belton, SC 29627 
864-338-7718 
800-786-8787 
Fax: 864-338-7719 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks Greg, I was playing solitaire instead..... lol 

Google has taken me on strange trips too. 

 John


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I've got a solution!
"Dear Frank Mark,
I am sorry but due to difficulties beyond my control it will be necessary for your shipper to bring _cash in hand_ . I will, of course, have the item ready for inspection and immediate shipping. I thank you for your understanding but this is nonnegotiable. 
Sincerely,
Blah blah blah etc....


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## msimpson (Jan 5, 2009)

SCAM, SCAM, SCAM, SCAM, SCAM. I could go on, but perhaps an explanation would be more helpful. 

I base this both on my 30 years as a federal prosecutor, and also on seeing friends get scammed on eBay. 

This is an update of the Spanish Prisoner scam, known as the Overpayment scam. In the original, conmen claimed that the Spanish Prisoner had access to untold wealth, which he would gladly share, if only you would help finance his escape. 

This evolved into the Nigerian Bank Scam. I have these funds which I stole? fell into my lap? were left unclaimed? And will gladly share them with you if you can give me a bank account to send them to. Oh, and I need a very small sum to buy cooperation from a necessary functionary. And a bit more for the courier. And something fror the corrupt policeman. . . . 

And now we get to the Overpayment Scam. Yes, I will buy your Motor Home, camper trailer, Aster locomotive, but unfortunately my funds are inconveniently tied up in this cashiers check for twice that amount. Why don't you just deposit it in your account, take an extra $100 for the aggravation, and send me the difference? Guaranteed good, bank cashiers check (sometimes a money order or other instrument.) 

And the only problem is that the instrument, which looks good, is totally bogus. Easily counterfeited once a sample is obtained. Frequently generated in Nigeria, legendary home of fraud. I have a current case involving a shipment of over half a million dollars in such instruments and a total of more than a million dollars. They are all totally worthless and anyone who gave something of value in exchange for one is strictly SOL. 

With the internet and computers, scammers who used to have to at least pay postage, can now, virtually without cost, solicit hundreds of thousands of marks. If they have even 1/10 of 1% success ratio, that is hundreds of real victims. They probably could care less about what you are selling, they want the overpayment, which will eventually come out of your account. They also want things like you name, address, bank account and routing numbers, so they can start counterfeiting checks on your account. 

Why is the langauge awkward and are there suspicious details in the instrument itself? Because they are more persistent than artful, but some are better than others and they learn by trying. 

Aren't they afraid of arrest? Not very. Nigeria is a long way away and how do you prove which one is responsible given the propensity for false names and information. Indeed, how do you even know what country to look for them in? (You don't think that anything in what they sent you is accurate do you, except where to send the money -- which may be a remailer.) Law enforcement agents see tons of these every day. I only have a case because we had a U.S. citizen involved who was forwarding the individual checks to the victims, so they wouldn't have a Nigerian postmark. 

How could they do this? Because they are in a country rife with crime and corruption, where the criminal justice system is largely inoperative, and they want to make money. This is a country where dozens are routinely killed as they steal gasoline from pipelines, when someone strikes a spark. Not a great fear of consequences. 

The question it comes down to is, why would you trust a complete stranger, that you have no ability to seek recourse from, with access to your accounts? Sadly, people will lie to get your money and never lose a minute's sleep over it. If it sounds too good to be true, it is. If he wants to buy your item, have him use Paypal -- they can worry with it. 

Several years ago, a friend of mine got a great deal on an Aster lokie off of eBay. He talked to the guy on the phone and he was very helpful, wanted my friend to enjoy the engine, and would send it as soon as he received the check -- sorry, he wasn't going to pay the fees with Paypal. About $2,000 later, my friend found that another buyer had also bought the same non-existent Aster, that the address was a vacant lot, and that the Seller's eBay rating was inflated from a series of small purchases. My friend was lulled by the trust we place in others within the live steam community, not recognizing the danger that a predator would come into our neighborhood. 

If ti sounds too good to be true, it is. 

Rant, rave, grumble, grumble. Deal with people that either experience or circumstances (Paypal) give you cause for trust. Or not. It's not my money. 

Best regards, Mike


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