# A cheap and functional wireless throttle control



## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm working on the process of converting my LGB Stainz over to battery power. What kind of batteries to use and where to put them was easy to figure out. Where I'm stumped is the overwhelming array of extremely expensive wireless control products out there. When I thought about it, I realized all I'm looking for is a remote control low voltage dimmer switch. I tried out one I found on Ebay for $5.00. Its advertised use was to control the brightness of LED lights with an input voltage of 12-24v. Unfortunately although it would shut my loco on and off remotely it proved useless for controlling the speed. 

I have simple needs for what I'm trying to accomplish. I don't care for the time being about being able to control steam, sound, lights, or the like. I don't even care about being able to move in reverse. All I need to start out with is a simple remote dimmer to control voltage to the motor of the loco. I'm really hopeful such a thing exists because thus far I haven't found a thing that can do what I need for less than $100. Has anyone run across something like what I'm describing that works? If nothing exists, at least I'll know that I'm looking at the $100 or more market instead of the sub-$50 I thought I could get away with.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

How many amps is your $5 LED dimmer rated at? The working voltage range maybe different for LEDs than a motor.

Andrew


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

It was rated at 12-24v, 8 amps. I figured the reason it didn't work was simply because it was cheap. Since one function worked (the on/off), I thought I might be close to finding something that fairly inexpensive and yet met my needs. I just need to find the solid voltage control and I'd be in business.


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

Train-Li-USA has a easy control for $100.00. 

http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/p...-5908.html

Also GScale Grarhic has one starting around $140.00

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DelTapparo/index.html

Again they may be over your limit. 

Steve


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DelTapparo/gscalegraphics_1_015.htm 

Starts at $69 

And that's at G-scalegraphics.com 

ps; Del is a great guy to work with. 

John


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 11 Jun 2013 08:06 AM 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DelTapparo/gscalegraphics_1_015.htm 

Starts at $69 

And that's at G-scalegraphics.com 

ps; Del is a great guy to work with. 

John 
Plus $49 for the transmitter.









Andrew


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Looks like some good options, thanks everyone. I don't know what I'll do yet. I might keep trying for a super cheap option a bit longer to see if I can find something that works. If not, I'll look at one of these suggestions.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

The 12 volt dimmers are a type of PWM. 
Andrew


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

GScaleGraphics.net actually


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Del the link above did not work for me. Try this one: clickable link


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By roykirk on 10 Jun 2013 10:29 PM 
I'm working on the process of converting my LGB Stainz over to battery power. What kind of batteries to use and where to put them was easy to figure out. Where I'm stumped is the overwhelming array of extremely expensive wireless control products out there. When I thought about it, I realized all I'm looking for is a remote control low voltage dimmer switch. I tried out one I found on Ebay for $5.00. Its advertised use was to control the brightness of LED lights with an input voltage of 12-24v. Unfortunately although it would shut my loco on and off remotely it proved useless for controlling the speed. 

I have simple needs for what I'm trying to accomplish. I don't care for the time being about being able to control steam, sound, lights, or the like. I don't even care about being able to move in reverse. All I need to start out with is a simple remote dimmer to control voltage to the motor of the loco. I'm really hopeful such a thing exists because thus far I haven't found a thing that can do what I need for less than $100. Has anyone run across something like what I'm describing that works? If nothing exists, at least I'll know that I'm looking at the $100 or more market instead of the sub-$50 I thought I could get away with. 

Roy - is this the unit your tried?

Link to LED dimmer

If not can you give me a link to what you have?

thanks

dave


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The train-li unit is transmitter and receiver pair and advertised for $90, not 100. You get speed and direction control only with a 2 button fob. which is larger than your car remote, but smaller than the small computer mouse.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

If you are creative you can use a multi-channel remote to drive various relays to create various voltage levels, or maybe use a motor to drive a variable resistor or an L-pad through some linkage and maybe even keep it ~$50.

4-channel 12-Volt Remote


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Some Live Steam and electric operators use 'Key-fob' remote systems which are those designed to open garage doors etc. Using a small pocket transmitter to increment the throttle. 
Not sure of total cost but it may end up as much as some of the ready made systems mentioned above. 
Check out the following link for more info. 

Key-fob Speed Controller

Andrew


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Dave - Sorry for the delay. Yes, that's the exact same unit, although the one I bought was at a cheaper price.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By roykirk on 20 Jun 2013 08:04 PM 
Dave - Sorry for the delay. Yes, that's the exact same unit, although the one I bought was at a cheaper price. 
Hopefully you have seen this thread:

Related Link

dave


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Posted By dbodnar on 21 Jun 2013 02:21 AM 
Posted By roykirk on 20 Jun 2013 08:04 PM 
Dave - Sorry for the delay. Yes, that's the exact same unit, although the one I bought was at a cheaper price. 
Hopefully you have seen this thread:

Related Link

dave

Wow! I hadn't seen that until now, but that's just great info! So do you think the reason mine wouldn't work was because I didn't use a diode as you described? Because it wasn't like I got poor speed control before it burned out, it would never work as a dimming circuit from the very beginning...not on my train and not even on my bench tester. Maybe it was just a bad unit from the start because it looks like you made yours work quite well.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By roykirk on 21 Jun 2013 09:43 AM 
Posted By dbodnar on 21 Jun 2013 02:21 AM 
Posted By roykirk on 20 Jun 2013 08:04 PM 
Dave - Sorry for the delay. Yes, that's the exact same unit, although the one I bought was at a cheaper price. 
Hopefully you have seen this thread:

Related Link

dave

Wow! I hadn't seen that until now, but that's just great info! So do you think the reason mine wouldn't work was because I didn't use a diode as you described? Because it wasn't like I got poor speed control before it burned out, it would never work as a dimming circuit from the very beginning...not on my train and not even on my bench tester. Maybe it was just a bad unit from the start because it looks like you made yours work quite well. 
Roy - if you used it with the locomotive before testing with the LEDs it may have a blown Mosfet - I killed mine doing the same thing - it dealt with the motor for only a minute or two then died - some testing showed that the Mosfet had shorted, probably from the back emf.

You can replace the surface mount power Mosfet on your board with a standard device - I used a IRL 520 like this one:









You can get them from mouser
IRL520 

There are other substitutions as well. 

dave


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

In the end, I ordered the inexpensive unit from Train-Li listed above. In general, it's a pretty awesome little remote train controller, and it took me all of about 30 minutes to install everything. A couple of mild annoyances - 

1. Since the remote only has two buttons, there are a lot of commands crammed in to those two buttons. Functions vary depending on whether it's a long button press, a short one, or even two within a quarter second. As a result, it's not very intuitive and it takes a while to get comfortable with it. Even after a couple of days, I'm only using it for going from stop to 50% forward and then stop again. The first time I tried to stray from this and experiment on my own I slammed the thing in to reverse 100% speed and derailed the entire set.







I'll get the hang of it eventually.

2. You definitely don't want to discharge your batteries. Ever. I have 18.8 volts of NIMH batteries, and I ran them completely dead on the first day more by oversight than anything. The manufacturer actually recommends it for the first few cycles so I didn't think anything of it. They charged up great in about 2 hours, but when I went to reconnect them (I'm using a trailing car behind the Stainz) nothing worked. Found out through trial and error and having to pull the entire trailing car apart to get at the batteries and the circuit board that if you run the batteries dead you lose the programming. This means the batteries have to be disconnected from the circuit board, the remote key fob reprogrammed, the batteries hooked back up, and the tiny programming button on the circuit board has to be pressed again...all because I let the batteries go dead. It was a major hassle and a good lesson. Maybe other remote systems will do this too, but this is my first so I'm not certain.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

So what is the difference between letting the batteries go flat and turning the system off when you are done operating?


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 23 Jun 2013 08:23 AM 
So what is the difference between letting the batteries go flat and turning the system off when you are done operating? 
Tony - 


Again, this is my first experience with only one unit so there's a lot of guessing going on here on my part. My theory on what's happening is that the Train-Li unit has no "on/off" button. You simply press one of the keyfob buttons to sort of put it to sleep. Thus there is always battery power to the circuit board, even though it's not running. When you run the batteries dead, power is lost to the circuit board, which presumably erases all the programming memory.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

ugh...


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 23 Jun 2013 11:26 AM 
ugh... 
Is that because it shouldn't operate like that or because I'm an idiot and I'm missing something obvious? If it's the latter, I can take it.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Roy. You had not made it clear it was the handpiece you were referring to. I understood your comment to mean the RX. The handpiece should not lose its memory if the battery is removed. At least not with any key fob TX I have come across. Basically they go into hibernation until a button is pressed at which time they come back to life and transmit the signal desired. The TX battery will die over time as there is a very small "stay ready" current draw being used.


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 23 Jun 2013 02:52 PM 
Roy. You had not made it clear it was the handpiece you were referring to. I understood your comment to mean the RX. The handpiece should not lose its memory if the battery is removed. At least not with any key fob TX I have come across. Basically they go into hibernation until a button is pressed at which time they come back to life and transmit the signal desired. The TX battery will die over time as there is a very small "stay ready" current draw being used. 
Yes, I was indeed referring to the RX. That is the part that is losing power (and I assume its programming) when the battery goes dead.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Roy. 
There would be no difference in turning the RX system off and the loco battery going flat. At some stage it must be turned off or the battery will drain anyway.


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 23 Jun 2013 06:47 PM 
Roy. 
There would be no difference in turning the RX system off and the loco battery going flat. At some stage it must be turned off or the battery will drain anyway. 
Not sure what you're getting at, but the RX can't be turned off. I'm assuming it's always on. Until it's not (either because of being disconnected or the battery going dead). The instructions state that you have to go through reprogramming anytime the RX is disconnected from power, so I guess that's the same thing as the battery going dead. Not a very robust system, that's for sure.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I have never ever heard of any system having to do that with a RX inside the loco. 
I have heard of having to do that with the TX handpiece although that is not very common. 
So which is it? 
The TX handpiece, or, is it the RX inside the loco.


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 23 Jun 2013 11:21 PM 
I have never ever heard of any system having to do that with a RX inside the loco. 
I have heard of having to do that with the TX handpiece although that is not very common. 
So which is it? 
The TX handpiece, or, is it the RX inside the loco. 
Well, to test my theory I'm going to purposely run the batteries dead again the next chance I get. I've moved the RX and battery connectors closer to an access hatch on the trailing car this time so perhaps I won't need to take it completely apart if I have to do what I did last time. I'll report on my findings.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My ugh was for a receiver that loses it's programming when power is removed, as Tony is pointing out, not common/normal/desirable (my addition with the last). 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

If the RX loses its programming when the battery is removed that means it would not be possible to actually ever turn it off without having to reset it every time the system was turned on again. Does not compute. 
Unless of course there is a separate "stay alive" RX battery just to save the programming. 
Never ever heard of that either. 
There must some unrelated cause.


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## roykirk (Jul 20, 2012)

Well, it appears that my theory is partially correct. Either that or I have a defective unit. I've run the battery dead twice since my last post. Both times required me to access the circuit board and press the "program" button to re-link the keyfob and the circuit board. This appears to be what I'm actually doing in reading the directions. For some reason I didn't have to disconnect the batteries this time, so apparently I didn't need to do that the first time. Fortunately I moved the circuit board on the trailing car so that it's easier to access via a hatch that can be open. 

So it would seem that running the battery flat doesn't truly cause the circuit board to lose programming. What it does is that it apparently causes the circuit board to lose its link with the keyfob and then they have to be relinked.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

still ugh


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

.........and still does not quite compute. What happens if you simply turn off the loco battery as distinct from running the battery flat? If it loses programming then it could be faulty or perhaps the RX does not like seeing voltage below a threshold and gets "confused". Either way, I would send it back to be replaced.


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