# LGB Modern Tank Car - Lowered, Body Mount Kadee 907 Centersets, Added Weight



## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

LGB had made some American rail cars, including the plastic "Modern Tank Car". Currently, these cars appear to be out of production; however, they can be obtained from selected mail order houses over the 'net while they last.

I obtained one car (Hooker Chemical, GATX 24065, P/N 45870) from Trainworld that was sale priced for some time.



















Later, I obtained two additional cars (Hooker Chemical HCPX 1262, P/N 41873 & ACFX 86462, P/N 40870) from America's Best Train, Toy & Hobby Shop in Itasca, Illinois. The cost of these LGB cars that are made of plastic is similar to USA Trains tank cars that are all metal makes them hard to justify except for their unique differences.











LGB is a German company, however, these cars are made in China. That said, the "Modern Tank Car" is of very high quality - but not without fault, particularly if you want to operate the car with other brand cars in a train consist.

The Car sits too high off the track, is top heavy and very light weight (Wind would blow the car over, and the car could easily "string-line" when in a train going around curves)










The LGB roller bearing trucks have plastic wheels and ugly truck mount hook & loop couplers. 










The trucks (albeit with molded in springs and roller bearing caps) are not authentic for the era the modern tank car represents. (These trucks appear to be used on other LGB offerings, including earlier era American 40 foot box cars.)

Examining material with respect to a prototype car is very useful for determining a course of action to improve the modern tank car and for installing the body mount Kadee 907 couplers.

Based on book references, observations about the LGB cars can be summarized in the following illustration: 










The LGB Hooker Chemical GATX tank car rated around 10,000 gallons and decorated with the big white letters livery is not authentic to a 48 foot modern tank car having roller bearing trucks, whereas, the other version Hooker Chemical HCPX car and ACFX car are OK. However, the livery of the Hooker Chemical GATX tank car is prototypical for an older era car. 
That said, the Hooker Chemical GATX tank car is still a nice product, and like kind discrepancies can be found with other manufacturers products, too. As long as you know about it, you can decide to suit your preferences.

*More about the Car's trucks*:

Given some research, the as factory equipped LGB roller bearing truck best resembles the Barber-Bettendorf truck typically used on a caboose - except for the spring pack. (A caboose typically employs leaf springs rather than coils that are emulated on the LGB truck.)










It can be seen that the LGB modern tank car would be most authentic when equipped with an Aristo-Craft 100 ton Barber roller bearing type truck. However, if an Aristo Barber truck cannot be obtained, the LGB truck can be used, albeit modified to lower the car to accommodate body mounting Kadee 907 centerset couplers. This will be discussed later.

Shown below is a comparison of the LGB car equipped with factory truck and an Aristo truck next to it.










*Kadee 907 Coupler Box & End Frame Mods for Body Mounting*:

Minor trimming of the Kadee box is needed so it will fit into the Car's end frame after the end frame is modified to accept it. So the coupler box will fit into the channel of the end frame, the sides of box tail shank need to be cleaned up so there are no protrusions or mold seam lines visible.

Shown below is the Car with body mounted Kadee 907s and Aristo roller bearing trucks with a thin shim placed under the car body bolsters that results in a lowered car by a net amount of about 1/8 inch.



















A comparison of an as factory supplied car to the modified car is shown below.










*Using / Modifying LGB Truck to Lower Car*:

As an alternative to using an Aristo Barber truck to lower the Car, the as factory equipped LGB truck can be modified to lower the Car, too.

Illustrated below are the trucks shown with discarded factory bolster and assembled with fabricated replacement bracket and plastic "H" spacer.










*Adding Weight*:

The LGB modern tank car as factory equipped with standard plastic wheels is only 2 pounds. Adding metal wheels to the trucks does help and lowers the roll center of the car so it won't be top heavy; however, the Car needs to be weighted more for assured operation in a train consist on curve track to preclude it from "string-lining". For example, if making up a train of USA Trains metal tank cars with a mix of LGB tank cars, the weight of the cars should be comparable. (USAT metal tank cars are about 5 - 6 pounds, so it's advisable that an LGB tank car be weighted close to 5 pounds.)

Unseen additional weight can be added through the dome opening of the car.
Steel 1/2 inch diameter round bar stock cut in 4 inch maximum lengths will fit through the dome opening. I added, 8 weights in "sausage link" lengths of 4 inches each totaling 1 3/4 pounds can be arranged in groups near the center bottom of the car's cylinder as illustrated below.










Once the weights are inserted and aligned, they can be prevented from moving by using door and window non bowing foam insulation / sealant injected through the dome opening.

With weights added and retained by foam, the car weight becomes 4.6 pounds.












*Completed Cars*:

Shown below is the relationship of two cars lowered and fitted with body mount Kadee 907 centersets and Aristo Barber trucks with metal wheels coupled & uncoupled over a Kadee track magnet and then coupled together on an 8 foot diameter track circle.










For far more detail, including dimensions for fabricated parts to modify the LGB truck and end frame mods, see the full article hosted for me by Greg E. on his Web site:
"*LGB Modern Tank Car - Lowered, Body Mount Kadee 907 Centersets & Added Weight*"


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## jokensa (Dec 4, 2014)

thanks ted

I appreciate your unique views


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

very interesting,,, i dont have any lgb stock but its great to see it improved


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted,
These are nice cars. I also used the Aristo rollerbearing trucks on mine with Kadee 1789 #1 body mount couplers. In my opinion those LGB rollerbearing trucks are junk. They even used them on the steam tender with their 2-8-2 mikado!


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Paul,

Thanks for your input.
Can you post a picture of your car showing the Kadee #1 coupler>

-Ted


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Ted-

With the mention of using Aristocraft trucks it has me wondering how you would compare them to USA Trains diecast trucks? I replace all of my plastic trucks with the USAT diecast trucks for added weight and appearance.


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted,
I really enjoy reading your modification threads.
Thanks

Tommy
Rio Gracie


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

ewarhol said:


> Ted-
> 
> With the mention of using Aristocraft trucks it has me wondering how you would compare them to USA Trains diecast trucks? I replace all of my plastic trucks with the USAT diecast trucks for added weight and appearance.


Eric,

There are several potential alternatives trucks that may be used. The critical parameter is the distance that the top of the truck bolster is below the top of the side frames. The LGB factory truck bolster is virtually flush with its side frames (0 distance).

The illustration below shows various roller bearing trucks, but does not describe the truck bolster relationship to the side frames. That said, from what I recall, all of them (except the LGB truck) have a notable bolster to side frame distance, but there is more to check. 










As to using the USAT metal truck the illustration below shows the center portion of its truck bolster raised up, so this would have to be modified (cut down) in order to use it.










-Ted


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thank you Tommy and every one else for your replies.
It's good to know folks take an interest.

Much appreciated,
-Ted


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

*Ideal Car Weight?*

Ted weighted these cards to almost 5 pounds. I've been weighting my cars between to 3-4 pounds. 

My question is, what weight is too heavy? If you have say 20 freight cards that weight about 5 pounds, that 90 pounds. I suspect a couple of say SD-45 could handle this, but that brings up the question of what weight might be detrimental to the engines. 

At what point is it too much for the motor and gearing? Has anyone done any testing or had long term experience pulling loads of that weight and noticed any problems? 

With my 3-4 pound cars, I typically pull between 10&20 cars, so I've been pulling between 60 & 80 pounds with two SD-45 engines and I've not noticed any problems. Maybe there's problems just around the corner that have not surfaced? 

Anyway, a friend of mine brought up the subject and I thought it was worth asking. 

Thanks,
Mark
*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have found that weighing cars to between the unloaded weight to maybe 1/4 to 1/3 loaded has worked well.

I use the normal scale conversion for weight..

Greg


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Mark and others...you do bring up a good point...one I generally find many considering from the viewpoint you brought up...over all total car weight ...

I consider this the wrong approach in determining train loads to pull...many have gone down this path...not to be feeling bad here...let me explain more...

If you have a 7 pound car..how much load is it on a loco?
If you have a 2 pound car .. How much load is it?

Now..heres the issue....the rub if you will.....

If your 2 pound car pulls like a brick....or your 7 pound car ... Pulls like a feather...

How does one make a comparison in these matters?
Use a pulling gauge to measure "rolling resistance".....

A 200 pound train could have less "drag" than a 50 pound train running on rusty axles...

The car weight is only a concern in relative comparison to other like or unlike car weights in one train...yet they can be placed in accordance with dispathers orders to have a runnable train..lite cars towards the rear..heavy near the front...

Take time to digest what is occuring here...they are really separate concepts...usually wrapped into one problem...that spreads like fire...

Happy rails as TW says...

Dirk


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rolling resistance is clearly a factor, but if you have grades, and most of us do, and they are steeper than prototype, the energy of lifting that weight can also be significant.

In my experience, well lubricated trucks in good order do not have significant increase in rolling resistance when weight is added.

Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

I chose to weight the LGB modern tank car to be close to the weight of the USA Trains all metal modern tank cars for operation in a train consist on 10 foot diameter curve track. From my experience, if the weight were mismatched with a light car in a long, heavy train, it's likely the car would "string-line".

From what I measured, the weight of the USAT 42 foot tank car is about 5 pounds with the 57 foot tank car being about 5.5 pounds. The weighted 48 foot LGB modern tank car at 4.6 pounds is still a bit less, but close enough for reliable operation.

-Ted


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Ted,
I came up with my 3-4 pound target weight doing the same as you described. My Aristo Evan's box cars weight in at 3.4 pounds. I have several of the LGB 4 bay covered hoppers which are close to 4 pounds. So 3-4 pounds is my target weight for all of my cars. Using that range and with my 3% grades, I'm able to pull in excess of 20 cars with two of my SD-45's, which is the typical lash up. 

My question dealt more with the negative effects on the engines pulling to much weight, and what that limit might be. So if you figure my 70 pound ( 20 cars * 3.5#) typical consist being pulled by two SD-45's, is 70 pounds within the design specifications of two SD-45's? Figure each engine is then pulling 35# if you figure each engine's speed is matched and is pulling equal load on the 20 car consist. 

So then figuring 5 pounds average using USA cars, is then a 20 car trains weight of 100 pounds (20 cars * 5#) still within specifications each egine now at 50 pounds. I have no doubt that two SD-45's could pull either example, but is it within their design specifications? 

Hum....... The things we ponder when the weather turn's too nasty to run trains. Hum.......

Thanks,
Mark
*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I look for any excuse to add more locomotives, so staying on the rails is higher priority to me than the number of cars I can pull.

Several years ago I wrote up my experiences for improving rolling stock in general, and one part is on weight:

http://elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=49

Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Mark,

Most of my Aristo SD & GP locos are fitted with custom made stainless steel wheels, and my outdoor track is also stainless steel. If a loco's wheels slip (more prone with SS) when pulling a heavy train, then this serves to unload the loco, seemly protecting it, albeit the train will run very slow or stop. Like Greg, I use several locos to pull heavy trains. I have used as many as 6 locos pulling a 40 car train up my double loop grade that averages about 2.2 percent.

-Ted


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