# cracked copper steam pipe. how to fix?



## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

On my ruby kit a small cracked happened when bending the shorter leg of the copper steam pipe coming off the lubricator. ( right at the libricator basicaly)

What would be the best and easiest fix for this?
silver solder? ( i have no experiance with silver or high temp solder)
or high temp (600 degree) epoxy that says it can be used on steam pipes? ( home depot)


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

The best way is silver soldered, but that's not an option. The epoxy solution may work, just make sure none gets inside to abstruct the steam flow. I just wonder how flexible the epoxy is. It may crack too if it gets bumped. Another option may be to seal the crack with soft solder. Soft solder is good to 450F. The area you talk about won't get that hot.

Give Cliff at Accucraft a call, he may have a replacement part. 

What ever solution you try, please get back to the group with your results.

Bob


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not sure how well the epoxy would adhere to copper, or how it would react with hot steam oil. However, in theory, if you compare the surface are of the crack to the psi in the tube (30psi?), you'll agree that the glue doesn't have much work to do. I too would be hesitant to use silver solder out of fear I may clog the steam line... or overheat the copper. 

Since steam vapor is condensing in the lubricator, I doubt it ever exceeds much more than 200degF. Perhaps plumbing solder may be an option...


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## Steamboil (May 12, 2009)

Hi, 

Silver solder should be able to fix it, depending on how its cracked, but I would not recommend trying to fix it that way too. The best way is to order a replacement unit from Cliff at Accucraft, or replace the whole pipe unit on the lubricator by unbrazing the pipe unit from the lubricator, and then brazing a new pipe directly to the lubricator (like how the factory did it). 

If Cliff is out of stock, let me know, and I can fix it for you. Or, I can just send you one of my spare units. 


Happy steaming, 
Tom S.


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

i think im going to give epoxy a shot since i dont want to use a blow torch on that area i guess. 
Unless i can find my old mini torch with solder tip in that case ill try plumbing solder.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Since you decided to use epoxy, I suggest you use *JB Weld* brand and make sure you clean the surface of the copper very well. Sanding will give the copper some scratches for the epoxy to stick. JB weld has good hot temperature adhesion characteristics once it has cured and has been a standby of steamers for a long time. 
I think in the long run, you will send the uit off to be rebrazed or you will replace it because cured epoxy doesn't flex.


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

i think im going to take it to my fathers and let him solder it. we fixed a freon pipe this way before so i guess it should work. esp if it does not get to hot. 


the epoxy would hold relly well to the line. esp if i go ll the WAY around the pipe and cover a lrger area. but your right i dont know how it would hold. 
and i was looking at an epoxy tht is mde for steam pipes and high temp.. 
i may use this over the solder.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm replacing my lubricator on my Ruby with one I made. It will be a smaller unit. You might want to do the same,,, if not send me a self addressed and postage paid envelope and I will send you my unused one.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Probably the best way would be to cut the pipe in half at the break, get a piece of 5/32 brass tubing that just slides over the pipe, make a short splice coupling from it (1/4 to 3/8 long), slide the original pipe into each end, and silver solder (high temp) both ends. Anyway, that's how I'd fix it. 

There's no trick to high temp silver soldering. Hardware stores sell 1/32 dia. silver solder coiled around a tube of flux. Clean both ends with fine sandpaper until bright and corrosion free, put it in a vice or something to hold it (don't overtighten and crush the tubing - ask me how I know), flux the connecting point well and heat with a small torch until it glows dull red. At that point feed in a little silver solder. Heat from the bottom and feed solder from the top so the solder doesn't melt in the flame and drip globs onto the work. Once hot enough, the silver solder will flow nicely around the joint of its own accord. No special skill is required. 

The only "gotcha" is applying too much heat too fast and melting the work.


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

Well The solder sucked it self into the pipe..... its shot.. 100 percent. 
anyways. that part that you have... is it the whole part including the pipe and fittings? 
I will pay to overnight it since this is the one thing i wanted to do on my vacation >< 

Let me know if any one has a spare they could overnight... name a price.. 

It seems that in the diagram and old photos that the pipe connects to the throttle at about a 45 degree angle down from horizontal and the length of pipe shipped would agree with that . how ever with the opening being level and the length of pipe / how it was pre bent there was no way that i could see to get it in place with out causing with happened or making a major kink


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

Crack was to close to the lubricator for that to work


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By cjsrch on 05 Jun 2010 09:13 PM 
Well The solder sucked it self into the pipe..... its shot.. 100 percent. 
anyways. that part that you have... is it the whole part including the pipe and fittings? 
I will pay to overnight it since this is the one thing i wanted to do on my vacation >< 

Let me know if any one has a spare they could overnight... name a price.. 

It seems that in the diagram and old photos that the pipe connects to the throttle at about a 45 degree angle down from horizontal and the length of pipe shipped would agree with that . how ever with the opening being level and the length of pipe / how it was pre bent there was no way that i could see to get it in place with out causing with happened or making a major kink 
"how it was pre bent there was no way that i could see to get it in place with out causing with happened or making a major kink " Did you happen to anneal the pipe prior to trying to re-bend it to fit?


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

If you contact Cliff at Accucraft on Monday morning he can send one out to you.

510-324-3399


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

"how it was pre bent there was no way that i could see to get it in place with out causing with happened or making a major kink " Did you happen to anneal the pipe prior to trying to re-bend it to fit? 

No i did not. i was following the directions word for word.


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

well i get another steam line today. 
going to try this again and hope the same thing does not happen. 
im wondering if they soldered my throtttel on at the wrong angle as i dont see how to easily get it inplace with it being perfectly horizontal


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

Well this one broke as well 
it seems they changed the throttel from a 45 degree outlet to a 90 degree horizontal with out changing the lubricator piping 

the pipe now has to be moved several inches from its start position in the wrong direction. 
The pipe coems pre bent in a u DOWN when it should be bent up or straight.. 
despite two hours of slow carfule bendign it broke in the exact same spot when attemping to move it the last 2 cm. 

i called and asked if they can send me one preformed. hofully he sends one set for the 90 degree. 

im going to try epoxy anyways while waiting for this part.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Please post some photos.


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

Took some photos but need to go buy a new camera cable since mine was lost in my last move ( funny gf's been bugging me to go get it for months so i can get the photos of my last vacation and some photos for het to sell stuff on ebay off .. but of course the train is what will be the final thing that makes me go do it) 

anyways i took photos 
i also took photos of the repair attempt that i just did 
foil wrapped around the split to keep the split covered then epoxy over the area and around the lubricator a little ( the split was to close to just stay on the copper and still get a seal.) 
i will be testing this out in about 2 hours as the epoxy has a 1 hour cure time. I have my RO unit making water at 18 tds ( bypassing the DI stage as i hear this is bad for the solder seals.) and will try to steam up later today . Worst thing to happen is it fails and i wait for the part that im sure accucraft is having a hard time forming since they changed the train. Im half expecting a old style throttle to arrive with a new lubricator after they give up


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

and fwiw cliff told me some one else had a similar issue from this batch of rubys.. so if I am serial number two on this batch.... 
One good thing is so far the customer service has been great. He called me back after only 1/2 hour or so.


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

[url="


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm, we had someone 2 months ago in our club crack a copper steam feed line that went to his pressure gauge the same way, I think you have to anneal it first.

Basically, BEFORE you bend the copper steam line at all, take a mini torch and heat it up to red hot, but not too hot, let it cool to touch on its own, then carefully bend it to your will, it should bend easily and not kink (don't bend too sharp of course), long flowing bends. The ruby I received was already put together at the factory but I had to anneal the regner whistle line for my accucraft shay. If the pipe breaks, you need to silver soldier it shut. Anything else is kind of a hack unfortunately.

Here is a link on annealing - it shows the process on a flat sheet of copper but will help get the point across:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jSz11lz8MA 

You just have to be careful not to have the pipe collapse shut on you when you bend it after it has been annealed.


Sorry I could get to you earlier about this, DOH - when I get my lathe and mill someday, will go through the same doh's over and over hehe


Andrew


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

We did annele the second one. the lubricator acts as a heat sync and cant get to redhot without damage. 
we tried silver solder on the first one and it failed. 
epoxy actualy worked better. 
The solder failed again because of the copper not getting hot enough at the crack point. 

cliff is sending me one that is apperantly prebent to the 90 degree output ont he throttle along with two spares. 


[url="


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

And as you work the copper tube you may have to re-anneal it as the piece gets harder as you work it.

I've always just plunged an annealed copper piece directly into the water to cool it.

As High Pressure always reminds me when soldering etc. - "You have to heat the largest piece to the temperature required!" The tube will glow red long before the body of the lubricator is ready to melt silver solder.


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

attempted to fire it after re sealing ( again these will be replaced tommorrow ) 
was able to get several rotations out of it before the steam pressure dropped to low. 
Need to fiddle with the burner as it does not like to stay lit on the lower settings the most stable flame i can get with out it going out has it bouncing up into the smoke box half the time. 
Seems like not enough air is being sucked in by the butane jet to feed the fire


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Try moving the gas jet in the holder - back and forth/in and out. In the early days it was found that a collar over the air holes was needed to eliminate the whistleing.


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

really so limit the air? to me it seems when set to low its not getting enough air. 
cant really thing of a way to get more air into it from the firebox side


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Generally the "normal" placement of a gas jet is so the front of the jet is in the middle of the holes. Then adjust in/out. Out will expose more hole and thus more air mixed with the gas.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Ahh, the fun of a live steam kit, just remember, in the end you will come out a better man! . The pre-bent one should do the trick, Cliff from Accucraft will take care of you! 

On a side note: 
I might be at tradewinds park north tomorrow (its work day but I can be there long, maybe 1 hour due to freelance work) if you need that steam oil still, but I suggest definitely come out next saturday or sunday (june 19-20th), I will be there to run with the rest of the crew. You can bring your ruby if you want to run it on the track we have currently. 

Andrew


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

somthing is definitly off. i will be trying the prebent one in a few minutes . 
It still looks to be tofar away from the throttle to attach. 
im starting to think that either A) the hole is in the wrong spot on the cab floor or B) that the throttle is now further over then before based on a larger manifold


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