# LGB Frank S



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

I am looking at a NOS Frank S-according to the seller, he believes it to be one of the earlist versions-it is new and unsued


any comments or cautions-it would be my first live steamer-


i run mostly electric but thought it might be quite fun-


having read several articles about it -it is supposedly simple and a great quality egnine for the price





any guidance would be appreciated


----------



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

*You'll find some good information on the Southern Steam Trains site. Start here **[url]http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/notes/franks1.htm*[/url]* .*


----------



## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, I have two. It make a PERFECT first live steamer. A large sight glass, smooth runner, very dependable. If it is truly unfired (as in unused) make sure the wheels will rotate completly. I bought my second one and the orings probably degraded and left a deposit on the inside of the cylinder. I haven't solved that issue and it remains unfired. I'll work on that when I wear out my first! You might already have rolling stock to pull behind it. Give another shout when you pick it up and we'll all give you loads of tips and tricks!


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Such a big sight glass you can watch the water boil...HAHA


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well what is the o rings _have_ degraded-are rpelacements available and is this something a reasonable mechanical type-but neophyte to this engine-coudl perform?  should i ask the seller to check this-can they be rotated manually when completely new and unoiled-ie straight out of box? let me know and ill ask before shipping and payment  


 


btw i have re and re read the southern sites articles-thanks -they are what gives me relative confidence in going forward-along mr horowitz's high praise as well as others i have mentioned it to


 


one person also mentioned that handling the loco while hot could damage the paint-presumably it is soft?-


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

They should turn smoothly, probally not if you roll the loco....A friend bought one that was brand new unfired, the assembly oil cruds up so bad that the pistons were locked in the cylinders along with the valves. The replacement O Rings are easy to do, you probally will just have to disassemble the cylinders and clean out that old oil/lube. What kind of pricing is it going for..Seem to bring around 800+ normally.


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

1100 NOS unfired-thoughts??


----------



## Joel779 (Jan 2, 2008)

I just picked up one on EBAY for $800. It was NOT NOS, it had been converted to RC and lights installed. A marginal job on both of these. Also there was some shipping damage, nothing that can't be fixed. 

I'm in the process of re-building it, I pulled the RC out and I'm going to re-do the lights. All in all I was very happy with the price point. I did steam it up once before tearing it down and everything was tight. I am hoping that there are spares or o-rings and such, but it is a nice looking engine. I picked up mine for the same reason you are looking at it, good reviews and for an Aster, an excellent price point. Also Mark Scrivener has one and it runs like a swiss clock.


----------



## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I know more than a half dozen people, including myself, whose first live steamer was a Frank S. An excellent choice. There are so many inexpensive trains it can pull, including this Christmas train...


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Steve,

The Frank S is a great engine. I bought mine "lightly used" a few years back - the pistons and valves were frozen in place by congealed oil. I simply disassembled the entire engine, cleaned everything, and reassembled using new gaskets and piston rings from Aster. Even if the parts were not available, I have since learned that making gaskets and piston rings is no big deal. 


I made the headlights functional on mine and added a few cosmectic enhancements. As Joel said, she runs like a Swiss watch! One of my all time favorite engines, and still has the best sight glass of any engine I've ever run. 


















You will love this engine.
Mark


----------



## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

I still stock all Frank S. spares including "O" rings, gaskets, running gear, body parts, water glasses, and other things. 

KO-5


----------



## George Zimmermann (Apr 5, 2008)

Steve

I was a really big LGB collector until my neithbor here on the Jersey shore got me into live steam, so of course the first live steam engine I thougth of was the Aster/LGB Frank S. I already had plenty of LGB european passenger cars to go with it. As far as I know they only produced one batch in 1989 of 3,028 engines. So the engines even if NIB are almost 20 years old at this point. So I searched on ebay and within a few weeks had purchased two NIB.

The first one I purchased for around $1,300 was NIB, but the wheels wouldn't turn they were totally lock up. The second one I purchased on ebay was a "Buy it now" for $1,500, but again new in the box. When I received it everything was free turning so I filled it with distilled water and steam oil, lubed all the connecting rods and filled it with butane. The engine fired up on the first try and ran like a swiss watch, it's quite a great little engine and a perfect choice for your first.

The first engine my neithbor Dan helped me with, we disconnected the piston and had to remove the cylinder caps and inside everything was gummed up with a blackish like substance. It was probably some type of lubricate that had dried up over 20 years. After Dan spayed WD40 or some other lubricate like it and worked the piston back and forth it loosened up. After freeing up both pistons Dan then worked on the values for me. Today both engines run perfect and I couldn't tell you which one was originally frozen up. I just had one at the Scanton Pa train show running on the small layout and it ran for 30 minutes or more. If you want it to move fast just turn up the fire and watch the little engine move. 
If the engine you are looking at turns freely you are probably all right, even the one I had to free up runs perfect today. They are very hardy little engines. If you run them fast as I do you need to tighten the screws and bolts as I have had some come out on my neithbors raised track, so I have started to use lock-tight on them.

Hope this helps and good luck.

George


----------



## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By stevedenver on 02/24/2009 4:51 PM


well what is the o rings _have_ degraded-are rpelacements available and is this something a reasonable mechanical type-but neophyte to this engine-coudl perform? should i ask the seller to check this-can they be rotated manually when completely new and unoiled-ie straight out of box? let me know and ill ask before shipping and payment 





btw i have re and re read the southern sites articles-thanks -they are what gives me relative confidence in going forward-along mr horowitz's high praise as well as others i have mentioned it to





one person also mentioned that handling the loco while hot could damage the paint-presumably it is soft?-



As you can see from the other posts, if it wont rol,l it's not a show stopper. If you can change the oil in a 1:1 car or add a new video card or memory to a computer, you should be able to swap out the orings. Just take your time and don't rush. If you run into any snags, you can see there are many folks here who can give you pointers and tips. I've never had any issues with the paint with the exception scratching it near the boiler fill hole.

I think $1100 is an OK price. The unfired are becoming fewer and farther between due to the fact that people like us buy them and actually run them.










Here's a shot of mine:


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Believe it or not......well, the give away is the pressure gauge


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well i certainly appreciate the confirmations 
i woke this am thinking maybe not- 
but given the affirmations from those who appear to be into steam 

i seems i cant go wrong


----------



## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Any MLS'ers in the UK who require parts for their Frank S can contact me off-board.

I get asked for parts for these locos from time to time and Aster still have quite a few parts in stock. I even have an annotated Parts Diagram to help identify the right item. 
Outside the UK you will have to ask your local Aster Dealer or Distributor.

Andrew


----------



## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Speaking of the _*B*_*est sight glass ever*, where will you find a sight glass that allows you to look into the boiler, as in this photo? You can actually see the flue tube inside the boiler.


----------



## rthazen (Jan 2, 2008)

I am putting in an adv. for a Frank S, NOS in box. I bought it years ago and looked at it alot. The wheels do not turn as mentioned above so it will need cleaning. I want $1000.00 picked up in East Hartford.Connecticut. 
Again PICK UP only.


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

mark how did you light the engine-very nice- 
isnt heat a problem 

would love to know 

in process of cleaning congealed gunk -engine arrrived and was in fact NOS -but lots o'gunk'frozne wheels and reversing block-block now free, working on cylinders


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Ignorance is sometimes bliss, but other times... 

NOS?


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

NOS = New Old Stock - Brand new unit (not "used") but manufactured a long time ago. 

Just another confusing ACRONYM** in a confused world. 



** ACRONYM = A Coded Rendition Of a Name, Yielding Meaning 

ACRONYMS (plural of ACRONYM) = A Coded Rendition Of a Name, Yielding Meaning, Sometimes.


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

new old stock


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Now I'm really, really sorry I asked. "New Old" is an oxymoron"







You just cannot make this kind of stuff up.

Though simply complicated I don't mean it's cruel to be kind to the great MLS team of mavericks. 


Trivia: Did you know that oxymoron is itself one? Greek oxy ("sharp" or "pointed") and moros ("dull"). Thus the word oxymoron is itself an oxymoron.




Say good night Gracie. Good night Gracie.


----------



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I dislike acronyms and abbreviations more than I abhor the cold weather.








Having worked in construction all my life, I got used to them. However, even then there were many times when others, not as familiar with reading prints, could easily be mislead by those shortened words. Then came CAD drawings............with abbreviations!


----------



## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

When restoring an old (1958) corvette I used to look for NOS parts. They were preferred over re-production parts.


----------



## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Madman on 03/12/2009 7:20 PM
I dislike acronyms and abbreviations more than I abhor the cold weather.








Having worked in construction all my life, I got used to them. However, even then there were many times when others, not as familiar with reading prints, could easily be mislead by those shortened words. Then came CAD drawings............with abbreviations!












Acronyms... I was in the Navy for 20 years. My whole life seemed to rotate around Acronyms. One of my first duty stations was this Acronym: FLEASWTRACENPAC. It's really weird because the acronym incorporates another acronym, ASW, so those fifteen letters stood for this: FLEET ANTI SUBMARINE WARFARE TRAINING CENTER PACIFIC. Now my duty station is CIVLANT.


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

i understand about acronyms -there are so many and often many have different meanings-as a lawyer i have my own fill of these regaiding many laws 

as a guitar player -NOS is now common-its a common product description 

it is not an oxymoron-imho- it means unsold older stock in new condition -like vaccum tubes-not reproductions , but originals in new unused condition from the period they were made 

i suppose however that old stock might imply new condition 

in the world of electric guitars -this term is now marketed to distinguish a variety of older models offered ie a model that simulates a 1963 fender stratocaster can be offered in New condition-meaning the paint job will be shiny and unmarred -or in a factory simulated 'weathered and worn' finish-(called relicing) 

so im just a victim of new speak and marketing 

and while i too raise an eyebrow-its often helpful to keep abreast of our changing and so often trendy and 'manufactured' language 

like the term reality show-


----------



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

"so im just a victim of new speak[/b] and marketing" 
I always new that George Orwell's 1984[/i] was comming!

And for the originator of this thread about Frank S steam locos, my apologies for throwing the switch on it.


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

caveat emptor


----------



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Chris that's above my head







and not in my Oxford Advanced Learner's dictionary. Why I own that edition is beyond my comprehension. Would you please explain what the phrase *caveat emptor *means?


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

" Let the buyer beware." All of the risk is on the buyer. 

Charles M SA #74


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

.


----------



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Chris,

You've hit a new high - the shortest message ever on MLS!


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

an update -not very steamy -it was 76F this day and sunny too 
Reduced: 50% of original size [ 1024 x 768 ] - Click to view full image 

after a bit of work and clean up on the congealed lube, and new cylinder gaskets, as my guru as taught me 


i set up a temp oval on the stone patio- 
its been very dry here and 
while its not meths 
i figued id be very cautious regarding fire, stray debris, dirt, as well as having a very level trackage as this was my first fire up-and if there were issues i wanted variables to be minimal 

as it turned out 

it was like clockwork 

once i got the burner to light-after several attmpet with my old fashioined Zippo and a burned thumb (those lighters get vey hot when continuosly lit-first a stack fire-then finally instead of a pop and blow out -the burner lighted and i recognized the low roar 

steam came up in about 2 minutes-guage is quite sensitive 

absolutely no leakage or blow off 

rasied the engine on blocks to let condensate clear both directions-took no time-then on the track and 

she ran light for about 25 minutes alternating directoins 

-pressure at about 1-slight grade to some protions of the oval 

easy to control on the fly-those large controls, while unsightly are easy to grab and tweak 

engine ran very clean until the end when i strated getting a few drops of oil out of the stack-still quite clean all in all 

ran smoothly and quietly-initial movement produced some nice steam out of the stack 

then the wind picked up and i was unable to repeat steam up-couldnt get it to light-only pop and blow out (which i know is too much gas pressure) -so now im getting a bunson burner friction lighter (flint and striker pan) 

fueling was easy-controling the temp was pretty easy-harder the second time-i seemed to fluctuate between too little warmth and too much in the tender gas tank-wasnt as attentive to water being added-this is criitcal i now think 

it was indeed fun-but lots of prep and fuss (compared to electirc -and of course it was me going over the check list so i wouldnt make a mess of it) -part of the fun 
but clearly not for everyone, no less those less inclined to deal with this or those who are less than mechanical 

it is a great deal of fun-and 

knowing its running as an independent ENGINE-no electricity really does add a dimension 

this week is forecast to be brit-like-rain, low forties or colder-snow in the latter part of the week- 

while not one to let the waether get to me-since this is a bit more complex than a lighter to ignite-i may wait so i can futz in the sun 

next time-ill add a few cars


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

i will add, to clear soem earlier comments,-when 'as they should be', the wheels should turn so freely that another engine -like a LGB forney, certainly a shay, or other medium power and weight engine -can pull the frank s behind -to my sense of touch, the Franks s wheels, when free and lubed and correct, turn about the same or slightly more freely than an electirc LGB engine -like a forney, mogul, spreewald, 

clean up is time consuming and for the not faint of heart if this is a new $$$$ toy- i knew nothing but had a great teacher 

-penetrating oil is the way to get the congealed stuff out, it can also require taking off the boiler sheild plate and gunk tank, and the ROscoe oiler and its small cooper piping-which may be completely blocked with solidified lube-soak in penetraitng oil-then blow out with syringe 

-taking off the cylinder head covers is pretty easy but gaskets may tear if very old-so you cut new ones from a very high quality, very strong paper gasket material 

southernsteam has relevant articles on this loco which are not only dead accurate but most helpful and instructional


----------



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Slightly off topic, however, I picked up a mint blue Frank S electric version from Ebay. It arrived yesterday. Beautiful piece of equipment! Oddly, the tender will not move by itself. The loco cable must be attached to the tender in order for the tender's motor to operate. Apparently, the pick up shoes on the tender transmit power to the loco then the loco powers the tender.


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

arent you lucky! i got the blue one NOS for this xmas from swmbo





definetly influenced my move on the green live version


-i love the blue engine


and they smoke profusely-be extra careful with those now almost impossible to find end posts


----------

