# Ballast and Track Support



## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

After moving tons and tons and tons of dirt (I'm sure you've all been there!), I'm finally getting ready to lay some track (just in time to shut down for winter!). I have read about the importance of digging a trench of 4 to 6 inches beneath the track and filling it with crusher fines or chicken grit and then laying track on that surface. I assume that this will help with drainage. However, could you simply place the ballast material on top of the ground as real railroads do? The material could be 'mounded' a couple of inches to help with drainage as the 1:1 railroads do. I live in the North East (Buffalo, N.Y.) and my layout area is perfectly flat, so there is almost no grade whatsoever. The ground does move a bit due to frost, but I'd have to dig 42" to get below the frost line (thats not happening!!!). I'm certain that re-ballasting the area will be necessary no matter which route I take. Any comments, suggestions, and/or other input would be greatly appreciated.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Believe it or not, if your soil does not drain great, I would not make the trench, because water could accumulate in the trench and freezing it could heave just your ballast and track! 

What you want is no place for water to accumulate and then freeze. Therefore, ballast on top of soil that has natural drainage might be the best. 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

You will needs some sides for the fills. I tried with a bed of larger rocks and smaller on top and the equivilent of fines for ballast. Wind, rain and critters all conspired to knock it down. 
I did make a slight cut on the high side of the layout, but I didn't trench and the ballast drains fine. 

I use rocks and cribbing to hold the shape. No trenches needed. But then again I don't have soil.... 

John


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

You said you moved tons and tons and tons of dirt. I assume that you placed this as fill to build your railroad on. Unless you compacted the fill when placed it will subside (sink slightly)
this winter from the rains. It would probably be best to let it sit over the winter and subside then regrade in the spring and place your ballast as you wish. One problem with trying to build ballast banks up a couple of inches high is that your always rebuilding them after the rains, and sprinklers, foot traffic, etc.

Just some thoughts
Rick Marty


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

The trench method works as long as you're careful water drains out of it. Otherwise, go with a different method.


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks for all of the advice. What method(s) do you guys use for your railroads (details would be appreciated)? Is seasonal re-ballasting just a standard maintenance type of thing? I've built a few retaining walls on other parts of my property using the trench method and they haven't heaved. However, my trenches were pretty substantial. Any other suggestions/ideas?


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

I have some tips here

http://home.cogeco.ca/~daisybeach/ 

Click on the hand-laid track link and then scroll down to the ballasting part.


Cheers...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

There are some places that need attention, but not the whole pike. I have extensive walls...rocks and cribbing. 
Not sure what you mean by seasonal... is that like Hot and not so Hot? 'scuse... sunbaked desert humor... was a cool 95F yesterday, I only work outside in this heat, soon it will be cool enough to play outdoors! 

I keep my process simple. First I can harvest ballast on site, I screen and then wind-winow the dirt out. I use a smaller bucket container to pour between the rails and then use a 4" wide el cheapo paintbrush to even it out. Pick up the track and then vibrate it into place (slight shakes). 
It's not like calling out the 1:1 track tamper and on lazy days I find that it is mostly cosmetic as I've run over bad spots (under a watchful eye) before reballasting... I usually wait until I have visitors coming or I'm taking pictures. 

John


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Dieseldude, I live in northeast Ohio we have the same type of climate. I tried the trench method and it did work. But, scrapeing off the sod and putting your gravel base on ground level works just as good and it's much easier. 
I remove the sod with a flat shovel, some guys have sod cutters but the shovel worked ok for me. I then use 4/11 limestone for the base, about 4 inches deep give or take. Thats the stuff that packs well and almost turns to concrete once it gets wet. I tamp it into a rough grade with a 10" x 10" tamper. Relevel with a little more 4/11 retamp then lay track. After the track is down I ballast with #11 limestone. I used to use chicken grit, but I had many washouts and would have to reballast every year. The #11 limestone hardens (it's the 11 in 4/11 limestone) when it gets wet and is much more difficult to wash out or erode away. The grey color is also prototypical for railroads in these parts. The only chicken grit I could get locally is white. I still have a few spots that need touched up every now and again but nothing like before. 
To ballast I use a 4" tall x 4" round peanut can. I keep my ballast in a 5 gallon bucket and scoop out a can full. I then pour the can along between the rails. Then I use same said can to drag back across the rails and work the ballast in. When thats done i use a broom and sweep down the track leveling the sides out. For me, this is the quickest and easiest way to ballast. Your mileage may vary. 
good luck with your railroad 
Terry


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Dieseldude - 

I'm 75 miles east of you - tentative name for my railroad is the "Cheektowaga Central". Your thinking is exactly like mine, as far as trenching, etc. Like you, I won't be sure til next Spring whether my attempts are adequate for our climate. One thing I did that feels right, is use a tamper ($17 at Harbor Freight) to firm up the roadbed. And I'm spraying watered-down TiteBond II on the ballast for a bit firmer feel on top of the dirt (I read that somewhere). 

Also, since the "crusher fines" (landscape place calls it "stone sand") are a rather _bright_ gray, I'm tinting my glue/water with some leftover black inkjet printer ink. Pigmented black should be fairly permanent; older, non-pigmented might not last too long. It's just a test at this point. 

Now, if I can just keep the deer off the right of way.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Living a few miles south of you closer to the PA border I've decided on a raised layout or at least partially raised. I've been trying to attend the WNYGRS open houses speciffically to see how folks in our area deal with the problem but I've not been too successful in my pursuits so far. I am imagining that I will likely start out with a spline roadbed method and build up the surrounding area to match. Of course that is conjecture at this point. until we get some work done on the house construction on the railroad is on hold.

Chas


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I am in New England and I dug a trench 4 to 6 inches deep. 

I then installed weed block to keep the ballast from mixing with the dirt. Ballast is 1/4 inch gravel mixed with stone dust on part of my layout, another area is rough pea stone. 

I never had issues with reballasting through the 7 years I have been running. Some fine tuning, no major reballast. 

I should mention my soil is sand and gravel and has fantastic drainage, no frost heaves on my RR, and I run all winter. 

Weed block does not stop weeds, but does keep ballast in place.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

It is best to have the layout up in some places. Mine is only about 10-12" off the ground but it sure helps on sitting engines on/coupling/etc. You can 
build it up with blocks/timbers whatever. I have pix on my web site, down below in my signature.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd side with Terry and lay the track as described. Only thing I'd do different is use a paint brush to sweep ballast out of the track and I do that after the final raise and cross leveling. Also line the track as the final step. Later RJD


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