# Mountains, Bridges and trestles



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I posted several pictures on this forum talking about OGRR tour and a couple other places and I got several request to explain how I built my mountains, I must confess I am not good at taking working pictures butI promise to take some in the near future for futher explanation,








src='http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/denray/RABBIT MOUNTAIN 002.jpg'>


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

These are pictures of my tunnel portals,I have doors on my portals to keep out varmits. As you can see in the second picture I have a treated 1.5 x 1.5 driven in the ground at a angle. I have several of these stair ways ballasters driven in the ground and shorter pieces screwed to them to create many different shapes.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Adding the tunnel portal door to other end


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Top and bottom portals in place ready for the wire mesh and 2x2's to be added.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Go back up two pictures to see wire in place./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 
I can build these things easier than I can Post this stuff so please bear with me./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

When the wire wall is either straight up or just slightly in at a angle, you can only apply about 6-9 inches of cement at a time, to prevent it from falling or sliding down. Since there are more areas on the wire that have a horizontal or flat area to pile cement, I pile it where ever it will stay. Let it set for 30-60 minutes depending on how hot it is and pile more on it to obtain more height. 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

This is the very top of the cement, as you can see I pile it on in BLOBS/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif This is a start of the shaping when it is finished, don't be neat and ttry not to be perfect about. just slop it on in small BLOBS. 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Cement all added to one end and shaped 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Finished mountain 4.5 feet tall and 14 feet long, you can see the train coming out of tunnel


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

View from other end of Rabbit Mountain 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Close up view showing detail of the rock cuts 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

The steel bridge side of Wolf Mountain, See how the mountain is hanging out to the right, I made it look like I blasted through and cut the center of mountain out, do THAT with rocks/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/satisfied.gif 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

This is the trestle side of Wolf Mountain ,I used this mountain for the transition between the wooden trestle and the steel bridge,


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

The back side of Wolf Mountain with bridges in view 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

This is the form that I used to make the leaning part of Wolf Mt. Nothing fancy a piece of Aluminum being held up by the cement poured the day before, propted up by a couple boards and an old bridge I had laying around, anything that will secure it. I had Rebar in the dried cement and I made a wrap of the wire mesh, it looked like a hat band, I placed it around the rebar and filled it all with the sand mix cement. Let it set 2-3 hours removed the form and shaped the cement. That happened to be at about 10PM under a couple lights. I came out at about 6Am and could still define the lines and make them much sharper detailed.

My detail tool is a tuck tool used to retuck brick with. 1/4 inch wide and about 8'' long.

I love it


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I added another 6-8" in height to it the next day, and created the wolf head on top 
Dennis


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## Don Howard (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the pics. And ideas. 

Very nice!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Hey Denis 
Thank you so much for posting these pic and telling us the way you did things. I was doing the same thing but had the problem of the cement falling off like you said. I am using a Stucco mix. Thanks for the INFO about the TUCKPOINTING tool as a sculpting tool 

Thanks to you I found out I was on the right Rail Raod but wrong track. ( Sometning akin to Right church wrong pew.) 

All of us appreciate you efforts to post these pictures. Diffacult as it was.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

How did you add the color to your mountains paint, cement dies and did you put a sealer over the finished product. The work you have done is outstanding.My wife and myself are starting to do the cement/burlap over chicken wire method. I have been expermenting with cement dyes while mixing the cement to use with the burlap so i can get an idea what looks ok when we start to apply the finished layer. Thanks for the pictures they helped a lot


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work! Jerry


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Shay starting to come on to the 30 ft trestle


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

This is my depot with the spires in the back, That mountain technique is entirely different. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 
I have taken large blocks of polystyrene,(styrafoam) and with a hot knife and shaped the blocks as I wanted them and sprayed a vinyl patch cement over them through a 20 dollar Habor Freight sprayer. I sprayed from 1/8-1/4 inch thick. Warning this technique needs to be used away from traffic areas and where you will not be walking, kneeling or leaning over it. I have learned to get the same effects out of cement. Either by stacking it up for 4-5 days or using a form that has been screwed together, about 6x6 inches and 24" tall, after it has dryed for a couple hours remove the screws and remove the forms, Sprayed down with either Pam spray or WD 40 makes the forms release much easier. Then shape the cement to the desired shape. 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Water Fall, the water falls about 5 feet, you can see some concrete spires in front of the falls 
I do put a 3/8 rebar in the spire I may step or lean on them, I walk in my river bed, so everything next or close to it must be cement. The river bed is 16 gauge steel bent to a trough shape and 12 feet long and cement poured on the sides, loose gravel and cement in the bottom to get the effects and desired look. 

All coloring is done after the cement has been power washed off, The stone paint you can buy at Lowes works awsome. most of the waterfall has been sprayed with that and the complete retainer wall in front of the depot has been sprayed with this paint. 
Dennis


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis the stone paint that you get at lowes does it have a brand name and does it come in different colores. Once again your work is awsome do you know how many lbs or tons of cement you used


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Pete 
Look for the aresol cans with the real rough or textured caps, yes it comes in I think four different colors. you can spray it on and give it a extra tinting with acrylic paint mixed with water and sprayed through a squirt bottle. 
How many pounds of cement/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gifgood question, I know rabbit mountain with the tunnels go through has about 5000lbs in it, I know the rock method is heavy also, 
I like this effect because it is hard to get this look out of stone. I will buy 10-15 bags of sand mix, either 60 or 80 lbs bags depends on where I get it. I dump a bag in the mixer and dump into wheel barrel, I will dump in usually 240 lbs in and rinse the mixer, it takes me about 10 minutes to mix 240 lbs and rinse the mixer, it takes from 30-60 minutes to use up that batch. I do one more batch and wash the mixer good, place that batch and my wife calls for supper about then, I come back out after supper and detail the rock. I have a friend that helps me and when he helps I will do a bigger job using as much as 800-1200 lbs, is it easy NO NO NO I love the effect, it is hard to get the effect any other way. The depth of cuts the depth of relief in the walls and outcroppings can be awesome. 
Thanks Dennis


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

You mentioned the National Garden Rail Way convention. You live in Phoenix?


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

John 
I live in southwest Missouri 
Dennis


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Dennis, 
THANK FOR SHARING HOW YOU DO THIS. 

You did a good job on explaining how you did it. I know it's easier to show how to do something that explain it. 

I take it when you say sand mix, you mean MORTAR mix. 

Your work is SUPER nice. 

Also, Dennis this would make a good clinic at next years HAGRS. 

Thanks again 
Rodney


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Rodney 
Not motar mix, sand mix is a mixture of PORTLAND cement and sand, motar mix has lime in the mixture, I am sure there are experts will clarify this, I am told that motar mmix is not as strong as the sand mix. I have used for alot of my mountains the mixture of play sand and portland cement, the ratio of 2.5-3 of sand to 1 part cement, I prefer playsand because of the extreme fine granulars in the mixture, great for details. On the other hand the sand mix works very well and is a no brainer, dump in the bag, add water, and mix up and bingo, ready to use. 
I bought a mixture that used larger sand even small gravel, I did not like it because the small gravel makes it hard to detail. 
I might consider a clinic, I have been conversing with Marty, and it looks like I will do one at his meet in Sept. A little easier to do one one site, but I could do one also at a show, If I know ahead I am going to do one I could probably do a video, and maybe a power point, I think that would work great, We do video's for our business, so we have the editing software, that would help. 
Let me know if you want me to plan on it. 
Thanks Dennis


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Dennis, 

Will talk to you about doing a clinic at Marty's. 

I have about 18 tons of concrete sand that will be used for this then. I will try this sand for a base then use a very, very fine sand and portland mix for the final coat. I have some large rock molds (24" X 48") that I have tried with good success with this mixture. 

Thanks again and we'll see at Marty's. 

Rodney


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Hey Denis 
If you come to Marty's and would do a demonstartion of how you did this I would be willing to throw 20 bucks in a hat to defer the cost of materials. 
I would do it just to see your sculpting meathods. 
Any one else? I got a big hat. 

Of course Marty would have to give his ok 

PS Hey Marty! Want a free mountian?


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

John 
I hope he okays the donation, there could easy be 100 bucks in concrete for a clinic. 
This is also a hands on clinic for people to experience, nothing better than hands on. I will bring my personal mixer. So mixing will be a breeze, I will bring some forms to show the making of spires and retainer walls. I am going to post a couple pictures of finished retainer walls. 
Dennis


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

This is a view of a back wall I have made to work as a retainer wall to hold in dirt at different levels, This wall is just cement layed out with a brick trowel, and very little details added after drying. You can create alot of detail as you, (I call Plopping it down) 
Plop it down in small amounts and never to try to get it all straight. 


Next picture is of same area finished


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Another picture of retaining walls that are just laid up concrete


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Dennis. 
I throw in $20 also. 
Rodney


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

View of an outcropping, I put the figure and track on there for reference of size, the 
outcropping hangs out about 6 inches on one side and about 9 inches on the side of the track.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Rodney 
Did you say you will have all that sand at Marty's?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/doze.gif 
Dennis


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey Dennis, 
I'm bringing the portable live steam layout we built for HARGS up to Marty's. If I have room I could bring 1000 lbs. I will let you know. If I can use Doug's (Bronson) trailer for the layout, I'll have room for 5 or 6 5 gallon buckets of sand. 
Rodney


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I have around 2 tons of fill sand in the south yard right now, use what ever you want.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Quite the layout Dennis! You are very artistic and talented! You should post a picture in the photo contest.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

denray, 
thank you for the inspirations. 
your landscaping is really impressing.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis, 
First of all, let me get in line to say that what you've shown here absolutely blows me away! If there was _any_ way I could get to Marty's 'thingy', I would. Alas, I'll be tied up here that entire month. So tell Stan he has to take step-by-step pictures of your clinic! 


I've printed out this thread and taken a hi-lighter and pen to it.. Boy, do I have questions! So in no particular order... and please be advised that you can answer as many or as few as you wish to _whatever_ level of detail you desire. (Big of me, huh? Probably, in my excitement over your methods and results, I'll be asking for more detail than necessary /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif.) 


1) In the 'early stages' pix, looks like you're making sorta' random forms for your chicken wire or hardware cloth. You reference 1.5"X ballasters, but you also mention 2"X. Any difference, or was it what you had around at the time? (You also mention using rebar, but I think that's for areas that will get foot traffic?) 


2) You talk about 'screwing things together'. Pix look like you're using bolts with washers to hold the wire down? Since I get the feeling that these forms aren't necessarily meant to hold the final scenery together, is there any reason you don't use nails? (Or are you using the bolts as 'standoff's' occasionally, to push the wire _away_ from the forms? It's hard to tell in the pictures.) 


3) Just outa' curiosity, what _are_ those forms you're using for tunnel portals with doors? They can't be 'doggy doors', they look way too deep! Something meant to go through a wall? 


4) I don't know what a tuck tool to re-tuck brick is. I guess if I ask a knowledgeable hardware store guy, he can point me in the right direction? More importantly, I'd love to know what sort of _technique_ you use to get those marvelous, realistic lines and grooves in there. Any hints? 


5) Clearly, both Rabbit Mtn. and Wolf Mtn. have at least two tracks running through what appear to be separate tunnels. Looks like at least one line makes a fairly sharp turn inside the mountain to run parallel to the other? Is it actually 'open space' inside the mountains, or do you have separate tunnels running through them? And it looks like you've got some fairly long tunnels there -- do you have hidden access ports somewhere, in case of de-rails? 


6) In your 'spires' area, you say you built them with styrofoam, but I get the impression that you if you had it to do over again, you'd go with cement. But I'm not sure why? The styrofoam method actually sounds easier to me! How does the styrofoam look next to the cement mountains? Is there an obvious difference in texture? 


Well that's a start, huh? Hope I'm not overwhelming you with questions! Regardless, thanks {i]VERY[/i] much for showing us your work here! 
/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Gary 
Thanks for your questions, I really appreciate them, I know for every one that ask the question there are 6 that won't and wonder for the answer. 
#1 I do not use chicken wire or hardware cloth, for me they are to open or porus, I use, and I am not sure what the proper name for it is, but builders use it for stucco, and also they fasten it to the walls before laying up artificial stone, any builders supply store like lowes or H. depot. it comes in sheets of 3ft x 8ft i believe. 
I use treated stairway ballasters, 1.5" x 1.5" and I buy 36" long, I keep a cordless saw and drill with me, Here, I need to rock bar me a hole 5-6" deep usually at a angle, with a 3 lb sledge I drive the wood into ground to create a form for the wire mesh. I will put the ballasters anywhere fron 8-16" apart, I like to not make them straight or even, very uneven just like mountains. 
Invest in a good pair of tin snips not cheap ones/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif cut strips 8-12 wide x the 36" width. 
I use fender washers over wood screws and screw the wire mesh to the ballasters.I also use a 2" deck screw to screw balaster to balaster, this gives me different shapes of mountains, I screw all my components together because it holds together better ,and I think is easier and less jarring than nailing, unless you use nail or staple guns. 
Onse all the wire mesh is screwed to the ballasters it is very solid, In case of very sharp edges or corners you may even use narrower strips for ease of work, you may overlap pieces over each other 2-3 times, DO NOT try to make perfect or neat,/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif it all gets covered with 2-3 inches of cement.  
The wire mesh is for the pupose of holding the cement till it drys and gives it some structual strength, Not much because cement just barely squeezes through. When it cracks it will help prevent seperation. Think of the wood as a TEPEE and the wire mesh as buffalo hides /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue2.gif 
you could use rebar but I belive it would be more difficult to fasten the wire mesh to rebar than screws into the wood, My father use to call me lazy, my mom use to call me smart, because I always try to think of the easy way to do a job. As a business owner time is money and I am always out for the easy quick way, if you find a better way that is quicker please let me know 

I use rebar when I make tall spires out of cement, for the strength, to prevent it from being knock over if it gets hit hard, in some case a spire 24" tall may take 3 or 4 pours or batches to get that tall, the rebar prevents seperation in dry joints. I usualy always use two bars per spire this prevents rotation. 

I will answer the others later 
Thanks Dennis


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

What a grade!


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Only a grade for the Yankees, for us Johnny Rebs its a real WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE slide down LOL 
Thats a good one Toby, I liked that one. 
Dennis


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks very much for the info, Dennis. I'll be standing by for future enlightenment as you get the time and inclination. 

I was dead serious about Stan or _somebody_ taking photos at the clinic, btw. Inn fact, if somebody could set up a camcorder on a tripod and push 'go', that'd be something I'd be willing to toss some money in the hat for! (And I do believe I just ended a sentence with a preposition!:laugh )


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis: WOW! FANTASTIC!! Thank you for sharing!


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis, first, let me say what a great job you did. The pictures and descriptions are key and tremendously helpful.



Gary asked a lot of the questions I had. Less typing for me. Now some questions/thoughts on your answers.

You used treated deck balusters for some of your forms. Since the wire lath reinforced concrete should be able to stand on its own after curing, couldn't you use grade stakes or just rip down 2x4s instead? They are not treated, but they are a fraction of the cost. Once the concrete sets up, if they rot away it should not be an issue, right?

Regarding the use of rebar versus wood. Have you used the metal twist ties used to fasten rebar together in conventional foundation work? It is a soft, yet strong wire with loops pre-twisted into the ends. You use a little spinner tool, a hook with a wooden handle, that will put them in in a few seconds with a little practice. That might add versatility in the ability to bend rebar instead of the straight line constraints of the wood.

I see that you are just using the concrete mix in globs over the metal screening. Have you tried the cement soaked burlap method, then built up over that? How do the two methods compare?

On your spires behind the station you sprayed vinyl patch cement over Styrofoam. Was this done in place or did you make them elsewhere then move them to where you wanted them? You say you later built forms and then removed them. Did you cover the form and make hollow spires, or did you fill the form and have a solid spire?


Again, a really great job. I showed the pictures to my wife and she said "Yeah, we can do that!" Thanks for taking time to share it with us.


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## steam maker (Jan 11, 2008)

WOW! 
That is AMAZING very nice work. 

Joe


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Gary 
Here are the three tools I use to do my cement work 











There is no magic formula or I am gifted in this and others are not, it is you carve out what you want, I am posting a couple pictures of straw mountain, It is a bale of straw covered in the wire mesh and a coating of cement covered the mesh. This answers one of the questions ask by the gentleman in the thread below your questions. I have also just piled up dirt and covered it with a mesh and cemented over it, anytype of substructure should work, The reason I do not use rebar wire ties is you can not get them through the fine mesh that is used in this builders mesh. If you use chicken wire it will work fine, cover the chicken wire with burlap soaked cement will work, all you need to do is create a solid base, that the cement can bond to.
















These pictures did not come out real clear, but you just start carving away anything that does not look like a rocky mountain. I have come to the conclusion, if you carve it out and you say I have never seen anything quite like that before, I am sure God is saying I have and it is right _________ . The biggest mistake you can make is trying to make it to perfect, or to smooth, most mountains or rocks are rough and jagged, not all though. This is the reason I love this technique, you can get some real deep detail. 

The brick tuck tool the little narrow bladed tool was square ended when I started, I use it to shape all the crevis's, all the lines. Look at pictures of mountains if you have not studied the rock formations and watch how they are sloped, try to follow a pattern and that will help. 
Do not follow it everywhere, change it up it is your mountains, If you get hung up on it being so real like, or accurate. Men picking up locomotives and setting them on the tracks is not real either/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 
I have found out you will be the pickyest or critical when you are doing it, that is when you are the closest to it. Do only the details that satisfies you, others will like it, and wish they had it on there's. 
more later Dennis


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Really great mountains! I used a similar tecnique to build cliffs on the sides of dirt mounds for my RR. Judging from the third picture on this page, I would say that what you are using for the base is called 'expanded metal lathe'. It is in the plastering suplies at Home Depot etc.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Gary 
I am back again, those doors are my own design, I cheat a little here, I own a steal fabricating company, and I design everything we build, these doors swing up into the tunnel and lock in the up position, living in the country doors are a must. The roadbed for the track in the tunnel is a steel trough, just wide enough for my widest engine to clear by 1/2". I also have a long set of grabbers that I can grab what is loose from either end. Most anything can be pushed out, so far I have never lost anything YET. The sides are seven inches tall so nothing can fall out or off the track road bed. 
Rabbit mountain is hollow so there is lots of room, that is the reason for the doors to close easily, I know how I am, if it is not quick I will do it later and it would not happen. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 
The doors are made for cement to bond to, with big holes. 
As far as the radius,the curve in the tunnel is at 8 ft. radius or 16ft diameter.All my track except for switches are soldered together, and all the track is bought straight, and I use the rail bender to roll the track where I want it. that makes the transition between the straight and curves gradual which results in less track problems. 

STYRAFOAM, or ESP. this system has some advantages and disadvantages/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif 
I bought big blocks 24x24x48, I used a lot of the spray foam to bond together and filling in places I needed to. I used the hot knife tools sold in the garden railroad mag. this technique is simple but very much a time consumer. You can really create some very authenic looking spires. You carve out or burn away everything you don't want. I coated the ESP with the vinyl patch cement, I tryed brushing it on with a paint brush/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif what a failure, that process does not work and it would take a massive time to cover a small area with no crevises. so you just as well not be using something that is easy to shape, I really recomend DO NOT try brushing on the cement. I bought a 20 dollar sheet rock sprayer at HARBOR FRT.mix the vinyl patch cement VPC thin and sprayed on to the ESP, I spray on 3or4 coats from all directions and it is still difficult to cover all it. I try to end up with 1/8-1/4" thick, some places will be thinner some thicker. 
I paint to color just like I do regular cement, in fact I have mixed the two together and you can not tell where the ESP stops and the cement starts. The ESP works well where it is not exposed to foot traffic or possible rough hand exposure, like leaning on it or over it. Background works great. The back half of my over 8ft mountain is ESP and the front half where the water fall is cement, can't tell the difference. 
I have learned new cement tecniques, I will probably not use ESP again. To get the large effects of the tall spires it is easier than cement. 
If I missed any questions or did not address it far enough let me know. 
Dennis/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Michael 
I am sure you could use the burlap soaked cement over the chicken wire. you could also spray the burlap with the VPC mentioned in artical above. It might be less messy on large areas and easier with large overhangs. I am sure this would be a good technique to start with. 
The reason I like the thicker cement technique is to give the awesome depth of cuts and crevises and outcroppings. It is harder work because of the mixing of more cement, for me that is no problem because I built a real nice motar mixer, so mixing cement is easy for me. 
All my ESP blocks were done in place, they are solid blocks, they are rebared to the ground, so they are ridged and solid to the ground. Now I either have cement retainer walls or fill dirt on three sides of my ESP, so they can't move. 
Now when I want a spire, lets say 36 inches tall, I would make a wooden form that is about 6-8" square that is screwed together, drive two rebars in the ground, place the form around the rebar and fill with cement, let dry for a couple of hours and remove the forms, let it set till it can be carved to become what I want, do not try this until you have done several smaller versions. 
I will do a small series of spires at the clinic at Marty's in Sept, so plan to be there 
If you have any more questions please feel free to ask 
Thanks Dennis


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis, this is a 'quick reply' just to say 'thanks' for the additional info & pix. They are all very informative. I'm gonna' print this stuff out and study more at my leisure, but I'll probably be back with another question or two! 
In the meantime, I gotta' tell you that you may have a commercially viable product happening with those portals! At the very least, if you tell your fab shop to make up some more, let me know first!  

Thanks again for doing this!


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## dale700 (Jul 18, 2008)

Hi Dennis: I'm gearing up to do what you have done here (although not as good, I fear.) A couple of questions. I will use mesh similar to yours and noted you attach it to the 2x/2's with some kind of washered nail or screw. Can you identify them for me? Also, what kind of cement are you using. I had planned on a stucco mixture. What is best for you? Thanks, and I know I will have more questions. (I am making a mountain over a 6 foot circular section of track so I am going to be working pretty big)


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Dale 
Use fender washers or any washer with a small hole, I use screws we get in the business but dry wall screws would work very well, I prefer play sand and portland cement 3to 1 mix. But for the ease of I use sand mix. it is designed for top dressing sackrete. It is not motar mix. the sand mix is just portland cement and sand. I used one brand and I don't remember the type but it had small pebbles or large sand aggregate, I did not like it, the finer the sand the better the detailing. I have bought thousands of pounds from lowes, I like it. 
If you have any questions please ask. Good luck and good mountaining, post us some pictures of your work 
Thanks Dennis


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Sacred Manure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This thread gets better every day. Thanks for posting the latest pic's. I am building a canyon. The walls are going to be of cinder block. I fill the center with concrete with rebar to anchor it. I use the blue plastic anchors witha fender washer to attach the mettal mesh. I have been using Stucco mix for a base. Now I will try and add to the surface like you did. 
I can not thank you enough for what you have posted here. This is inspiring. 

I am one who gets too wraped up with the fact of it looking too perfect.


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## themacdiesel (Jul 22, 2008)

Exellent information, and great pics!!! Can't wait to try some of your techniques on my RR.


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## DAVIDESMITH99 (Oct 24, 2012)

I went to the "net" and input "Trestles" and your site popped up. This is EXACTLY what I've been contemplating for MY layout. Can I get more information on this setup?


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Check out my thread on the BUILDINGS Forum on the New Watermill 
Dennis


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