# Has anyone tried an Accucraft C-18 yet?



## yellow_cad (Oct 30, 2020)

Has anyone gotten one of these C-18s and had a chance to see how it works. I was wondering mostly about lighting it especially in cooler weather. Would love to hear any reports on this and other aspects. Jim


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I dont believe it has arrived just yet, but due anytime now. Like any gas fired engine, the colder it gets outside, the more tempermental it will be. Its the nature of the fuel. Using the Iso-butane mix gas(butane/propane) helps with colder weather running verses running straight butane. I get my mix fuel from the camping dept at Walmart, made by Coleman. An alcohol fired engine is the best for running in cold/winter weather. The fuel could care less about the temps and if its set up right burner wise, the cold only slightly slows the steaming up process.


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## astack (Apr 22, 2018)

I noticed that Accucraft states one of their manuals only to use pure butane and not a mixture because of the risk of overpressuring the storage vessel in the tender. How do you avoid that, or failing that, detect that the pressure in the vessel is too high?


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Everybody I know uses mixed fuel in my area due to the temps. Never seen a problem yet. As long as its a 70% butane/30% propane mix, IMHO you will be fine. They are just covering their tails for liablity issues.


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

astack said:


> I noticed that Accucraft states one of their manuals only to use pure butane and not a mixture because of the risk of overpressuring the storage vessel in the tender.


My Accucraft gas tanks all have a plate on them saying 'butane only' - however as I always use a 70/30 butane mix I was concerned enough when my Accucraft NA class arrived to check the certificate numbers.

I looked up the hottest recorded temp on earth ( ~50 deg somewhere in Libya I seem to remember at the time) and then I checked the vapor pressure of pure propane (worst case scenario) at that temperature, which was around 400 psi.

So I concluded that as the tank certificate stated a test pressure of 600 psi - which is consistant with a max. working pressure of 400 psi - It was OK to use the propane mix.


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## bigsteam (Mar 6, 2008)

Mike, as good as meths is coal is the absolute best for cool temperatures, also no track fires. Maybe someone will do a coal fired conversion of the C-18 like the 10 or so K-27 conversions Torry did about 10 - 12 years ago.


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll use straight butane in the summer months, but when it gets chilly, the butane/propane mix works much better.

Some locos work better with the more volatile mixture, regardless of weather: I used to have a Regner Konrad that would light 100% of the time on the butane/propane mix, but would struggle to get and keep the burner lit on butane alone. Accucraft's label is more for liability purposes -- but more to the point, to keep anyone from using 100% propane.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Correct Joel. I have seen folks build tanks for pure propane as the burner itself will burn that. Most of the time, folks with the bigger Accucraft engines would run a dedicated fuel car, like a box car, behind the tender with a Coleman green propane disposable tank in it and feed that with a flex line up thru the tender to the burner assembly. These were the models with the twin jet burners that would use nearly a whole can of butane in the stock tender tank.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

yellow_cad said:


> Has anyone gotten one of these C-18s and had a chance to see how it works. I was wondering mostly about lighting it especially in cooler weather. Would love to hear any reports on this and other aspects. Jim


The first batch of 20 are supposed to be here in a few weeks. (I was initially told late November, but it's getting pretty tight  ) One thing you'll want to know -- the C-18 is a gas burner that thinks it's an alcohol burner! Similar to the C-25 and the 7/8ths Forney, the C-18 has a ceramic burner in a fairly open firebox, so the burner cannot create it's own draft like a poker burner can. So when you initially light this off (from the firebox, there is no smokebox door) you'll need to put a fan on the stack just like you would for a coal or alcohol engine. They have equipped the loco with a blower. My understanding is that at about 10 lbs. pressure you've got enough to power the blower -- crack it open and take off the fan. From that point it should get to pop-off pressure pretty quickly, and I THINK you can just turn the blower off.
So if you don't already have one, order a fan now!

Lets know what you think of it when you get yours!

best--


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

It's a shame that Accucraft can't/won't make their ceramic burners that don't need the fan. The Bowand ceramic burners don't need one.
Propane: Just would like to add: I used a pressure reducer sold just for the purpose of using propane in items designed for butane. Propane gas has four times the pressure of Butane.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Interesting that a fan is required here…i’ve done that with the Aster Hudson but that’s not a ceramic type burner….is it the distance to the burner that’s the issue?

Sam


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I think its also a shame that Accucraft cant/wont make a live steam Shay with proper Stephenson valve gear. Using their cop out single eccentric with a reversing valve. When the Shays are 2K or more, folks are not going to complain to spend a little bit more to have the proper valve gear. Shays waggly bits are all out there in the open, if any model needs full valve gear, its a Shay. If Bowande can pull off ceramic burners that do not require a draft fan, then Accucraft should be able to as well. Sounds like poor engineering or cost cutting.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Mike,

I hear you on the valve gear but their engines at least run at prototypic speed…maybe if we mated an aster shay and an accucraft one, we might have what you want😆! That said, the acc 2 cylinder is a very nice controllable running engine.

Sam


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Yep, need Accucraft wheels and pinion gears in the Aster trucks to get that gear ratio deeper to slow them down a bit. Aster made them to run the way the Japanese like to run back then....fast! They can run slower but need a bit of blower to keep the fire where it belongs and RC on the throttle so you can help hold it to that RPM. I keep hounding Channing to put proper valve gear on them. I would love the new 2 cylinder one they are taking preorders one, but still has that single eccentric crap. I sorry, Accucraft can do better than that for the $$ spent.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Agreed but making Stephenson valve gear is non-trivial unless you’re Bill Allen….Aster often did things the right way but, of course, you had to pay for that.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft 3 cylinder Shay is geared extremely low, I read real scale speed. So much so ran out of fuel and water pretty quickly only a few times around my oval. I swapped the trucks and rear drive shaft with a 2 cylinder one just to get longer run times.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

My friend has both the 2 cyl Mich Cal deuce and the 3 cylinder Accucraft Shays. The 2 cylinder ones run much better IMHO than the 3 from experience in running his at steam ups. If only Channing would have full valve gear fitted to this next 2 cylinder model, I would pull out my wallet and order one. But nope, still single eccentric per cylinder. I believe the Aster Shays were 2:1 ratio. A ratio of 5:1 would be much better I am suprised nobody over the years offered new wheel sets and pinions with a deeper gear ratio for those Aster Shays. I hope the C18 is a winner for Accucraft though.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

My 3 cylinder needed to be fine tuned before it ran nice, I learned from Dave.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Back to the 18…my buddy Terry Seese should have his soon—long wait so I’ll see it running soon— god willing—but I didn’t order one…I’m running with him on Dec 13th..maybe then…🤞


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Take some video if he has it running on the 13th. While not my cup of tea, still a beautiful model.


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

boilingwater said:


> Back to the 18…my buddy Terry Seese should have his soon—long wait so I’ll see it running soon— god willing—but I didn’t order one…I’m running with him on Dec 13th..maybe then…🤞


I saw Terry's C-19 at Mad City last winter and Trainfest a few weeks ago. I just joined WIGRS at Trainfest. Saved a stamp just handing the dues to him. 
We were discussing his Chuffer and he relayed that Accucraft confirmed that the Chuffer won't work on the C-18 because of the blower.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Welcome! Look forward to running with you sometime in the near future.

Sam


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## CharlesTrains (Jan 4, 2020)

The C-18 requires a draft fan to get it going! Unless you already have a draft fan, you will have to wait till early in 2023 to fire your locomotive up. Steam Sation shows that the draft fan is out of stock at present and resupply is early next year. Hmmm. This could be a problem. 
Charles M


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## yellow_cad (Oct 30, 2020)

Especially interested in how hard or easy it is to get fully lit and burning in various climate conditions.


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## yellow_cad (Oct 30, 2020)

I found a fan listed here: Live Steam parts


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

I have that fan for my coal fired locos. Works well. Will they ship to US?


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

I was fortunate then, when I made the final installment payment on the Loco I also ordered a fan.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t be able to fire this engine without a fan…it might be a frustrating experience but you should be able to find a way….we’ll soon see.

Sam


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## ChamaLlama (Dec 20, 2020)

My 318 arrived yesterday and I unpacked/inspected her this afternoon. So far, so good... hoping to fire her up this weekend!


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Hey ChamaLlama, that's good news and please post some pics and a quick review of what you think after the weekend.
Russell


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

My 318 showed up yesterday. Got it unpacked and inspected, recorded the whole thing. I'll post that video once I can upload and edit it.
Last month I told my wife that it will show up the day before we leave town. And so now I'll spend our trip counting the days to get home and steam it.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary Woolard said:


> the C-18 has a ceramic burner in a fairly open firebox


From the photos, it looks as if the gas pipe for the burner goes under the floor? That would be a big improvement over the thick pipe across the footplate.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Also available coal-fired. For a price. Hey, that's a never mind - we were always told you were all millionaires over there!


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Milionares???
We might pay a few pennies less on our tee tax but Milionares?


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## yellow_cad (Oct 30, 2020)

I knew the C-25 could be coal fired, but didn't know the C-18 could be. Please tell us more Tacfoley.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

lotsasteam said:


> Milionares???
> We might pay a few pennies less on our tee tax but Milionares?


It's a well-established fact. At least three Americans of my acquaintance collect WW2 fighter planes - that's not a cheap pastime....


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

yellow_cad said:


> I knew the C-25 could be coal fired, but didn't know the C-18 could be. Please tell us more Tacfoley.


You got me there, since both gas-fired and coal-fired are about as far out of my league as collecting WW2 fighters, I might has confused them in my poor addled old mind - what's left of it, that is. BTW, after almost fifteen years here, you can call me tac, Foley is my surname.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete Thornton said:


> it looks as if the gas pipe for the burner goes under the floor?


Still curious about the butane version gas pipe.


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

Pete Thornton said:


> Still curious about the butane version gas pipe.


Pete, the gas pipe is under the foot plate. There are 2 threaded hose connectors on the left side between the Loco and tender. One from the hand pump, and one for the gas to the ceramic burner. The fire door is low on the back head similar to prototype. No hose and jet poking across like a poker burner would have. 
I'm traveling home today, hopefully tonight I can post my unpacking and overview video.


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

Here is the video of my unboxing and inspection. 
I had plans of adding music over the background noise. But in the end I would rather put my time towards the locomotive. I ended up with spectators who were just as excited to see the new engine as I was, besides my children.

I'll add videos and pictures as I generate them.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

I fired mine on a set rollers to break it in. It’s a smooth runner. I’m personally not a fan on how the cylinder cocks are operated but it works. I did get close to an hour of run time on the rollers. 
I am curious to see what you think about it.


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

RioGrandeFan said:


> I fired mine on a set rollers to break it in. It’s a smooth runner. I’m personally not a fan on how the cylinder cocks are operated but it works. I did get close to an hour of run time on the rollers.
> I am curious to see what you think about it.


Ran mine on rollers tonight. Since my only other engine is a Ruby, and I haven't met any other steamers since I started the hobby during the lockdown. The exception being that I watched Terry run his C-19 at Trainfest.This engine is my first experience with a lot of features and represents a sharp learning curve tonight. 

First lesson, engines with a blower, you only need to open the blower enough to have air flow. A roaring blower is wasting steam and won't build pressure.

Second lesson, butane tank in the tender does not get any heat from the boiler. The warm water in the tender is vital with straight butane. My Ruby gas tank gets warmed by the boiler.

Third lesson is how to operate with an axel pump.

An adjustment I need to make is for the cylinder drain cocks. I couldn't get the left drains to seal completely.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

Ive ran mine three times now. All three times the fire goes out in about 10-15 minutes and it seems the gas tank is empty so I refill it and the gas will last much longer. My first run was 40 minutes almost an hour on the second run and today 30 minutes. This to is my first locomotive at this level. Maybe I need warm water or butane+propane mix. 

So far for me I think its best and quickest to leave the draft fan on until close to operating pressure and to save the boiler pressure. 

I am pretty much at a complete loss for the axle pump and using the bypass valve, mostly because I am having a very difficult time telling the actual boiler level using the sight glass. I understand that on grades when the boiler isnt level the sight glass is misleading but on level workbech on rollers should the sight glass be reliable? How does your sight glass behave? Mine is all over the place one minute its 3/4 full the next barely above the bottom nut. When I close the bypass the locomotive needs much more throttle to stay running. Using the hand pump with the bypass closed i dont see any increase in water level through the sight glass.


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Ok aside from the gas filling completely and the warm water needed as a bath, the other problem is your water pump and by pass valve it seems. 
Can you add water to the boiler when cold via the hand pump with by pass closed ( that is no water returning to the tender) if so then the hand pump works and the boiler clack valve works. 
If there no water going in the boiler and there is strong resistance in pumping the hand pump and when you release your hand the lever returns by itself then your boiler clack valve is stuck.
To help release clack valve, empty boiler and tender of all cold water and use very hot water and try pumping in via the hand pump, the heat often unseats stuck clack valves. 
If hand pump now works, put water in the boiler ( only fill to half full so sight glass be easily read) the axle pump should work so to start the run and open the by-pass valve so water returns to the tender while running and you can see the water returning to the tender ( maybe take off tender top to see) then close the by pass valve. You should see no water entering the tender now , the engine will slow and after a short time you should see the water rise in the sight glass and that's what it should do. If no water is going in check pump fittings for leaks and also spin axle by hand to feel for huge resistance when by pass closed.
By doing all this you will eliminate any problems in the clack valve and hand pump as well as establishing the water feed lines are clear, assuming the water feed from tender is via hand pump to axle pump then boiler, with return to tender via pass- valve.
If hand pump and axle pump don't put any water in the boiler then there is a blockage in the line, usually a stuck clack or a blockage in the pipes.
I hope all this helps in trouble shooting and I have never found a sight glass in all of my 27 engines to be "reliable" to determine water level but over filling or under filling boiler can be a problem as is turning the loco over all the time to check and these can give false readings for a while. Over time you will hear the loco sound that will tell you when you are very low or over full of water and get used to it "talking to you", my advice is only go for 2/3 boiler fill at the start never any more and then manage the level with the pumps keeping between 1/2 to 2/3 water level until you are familiar with the adjustments. Heavier train means more regulator and uses more water so adjusting the fire and water to suit the load is something you will learn quickly. 
Once you get it running you will find the 'sweet-spot' on the the by -pass to be just cracked open enough to keep up water feed with the appropriate regulator opening for the load it pulls just like a real one and that's another satisfying part of running live steam when you get it right.
Russell


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Russell,
Great advice from an experienced live steamer! 

Tyler-If you make it Madison some time, please look up Terry or myself. We’ve been in live steam for many years and can likely assist with a few questions or problems. It’s a small group here in Wisconsin but we’re happy to help.

Sam


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

Russell,

My hand pump seems to be working, on my first steam up of the locomotive I filled the boiler using the hand pump in the tender. When locomotive is under steam and I close the bypass to hand pump water to the boiler there seems to be more resistance than with no stream pressure is this normal and Is it normal for the locomotive to need more throttle when the bypass is completely closed? When the bypass is open the locomotive runs extremely smooth with the trottle barely cracked open. Again this is all on rollers. Does the brass rod in the sight glass trick actually work? I've read some say it does and some say it doesn't. I would like to think that if it worked they would build the sight glass with it. After how many minutes would you reccomend me stopping the engine and using the blowdown to get an accurate reading on the sight glass? Should the sight glass be acting this way on flat table running on rollers?

Onto the gas. Should I use propane butane mix? The highest temps here are around 55f during the day. How do you go about adding warm water to the tender at steam events? At home I can use the stove or microwave and how warm should it be? 

Sorry for all the questions maybe I am overthinking. I just don't want to ruin my new investment.


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

As for the gas tank fill. The valve is not a self venting one. In order to fill it full you'll need to vent some pressure for the liquid to transfer. I am switching to camping gas mix. The heat needed is just in the 70s F for the tender water. A thermos of warmer water would work mixed with the higher volume of cool water. I would think.

Increased effort to hand pump into a 40-60 psi boiler is expected.

Your sight glass sounds like mine and appears to be working.

Sam, I hope to run outside tomorrow and emailed Terry an invite. You're welcome too. I'll PM you my number and address. I'm a little over an hour north of the East Towne Mall.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

Thanks for the info!

Sounds like there is noting wrong with my model I just need to learn more and take my time which is part of the fun for me. What are your run times like on a full tank of gas?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

RioGrandeFan said:


> Is it normal for the locomotive to need more throttle when the bypass is completely closed?


Maybe. If the check valves are tight, or a pipe is crimped, then it will take more work to pump water to the tender. Alternatively, when you have boiler pressure, it takes effort to pump water in to the boiler.
On my Hudson, the water return to the tender can clearly be seen when the coal is not sitting on top, so I learned how the bypass worked by watching the pipe end and playing with the bypass.


RioGrandeFan said:


> Should the sight glass be acting this way


As Russell and others said, sight glasses are notoriously unreliable. Don't pin your hopes on getting a good reading.


RioGrandeFan said:


> Should I use propane butane mix? The highest temps here are around 55f during the day


Yes. Camping Gaz, shipped from Amazon or picked up at Walmart.


RioGrandeFan said:


> How do you go about adding warm water to the tender at steam events?


Water at regular room temp (i.e. before you leave it outdoors to freeze,) works fine. I only ever used hot water when temps were subzero. (A small soup heater cup thingie worked.)


Tdreabe said:


> As for the gas tank fill. The valve is not a self venting one


That's unusual. But not unknown - Regner valves are not self-venting and Regner recommends opening the gas valve and letting it vent out the jet. That has its own issues, like dirt getting stirred up.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

Thanks for all the info. 

I thought these and all accucrafts were fittied with self venting tanks. The included manual does not mention if its vented or not. It just says with gas valve closed add the fuel, then warm water. But I shall try to treat it as if it isnt self venting.

Do you know what percent is the butane and propane Coleman gas mix at walmart? I did see it there last week but didnt pick up a can because it does not say. It just says butane/propane mix. We want 70/30 mix correct?


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

RioGrandeFan said:


> Thanks for all the info.
> 
> I thought these and all accucrafts were fittied with self venting tanks. The included manual does not mention if its vented or not. It just says with gas valve closed add the fuel, then warm water. But I shall try to treat it as if it isnt self venting.
> 
> Do you know what percent is the butane and propane Coleman gas mix at walmart? I did see it there last week but didnt pick up a can because it does not say. It just says butane/propane mix. We want 70/30 mix correct?


I got assembly instructions in my box. I didn't see any separate operation instructions. It could be in the same book and I just didn't flip all the pages to see them. If the instructions say to close the valve, then it makes sense it would be a vented filler.

Did yours come with a coal load? Mine didn't.

The gas filler adapter from The Train Department just showed up today. I plan to get a couple cans of blended fuel tonight.

At home, the only place I'm running, I'm keeping my water supply in the house to keep it warm enough. Last winder with my Ruby I kept everything in the garage around 40F and ran fine once heat from the boiler warmed up the footplate.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

I talked to Accucraft about the coal load and these do not come with one. I picked mine up directly from the Accucraft warehouse at the end of November and at that time they didn't have the instruction manual ready but they emailed me one last week. When picking up the model I was also told to look at the C-25 manual as its very identical. Cliff at Accucraft will email you one.


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## yellow_cad (Oct 30, 2020)

Can anyone explain why the C-18 seems so difficult to get lit inside at seemingly idea conditions in this video


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

RioGrandeFan , Pete Thornton has provided really good answers to all your questions above and as to water temp in the tender I usually use lukewarm on cold days or mostly 'out-of-the-tap' temperature but I am in a country where the ambient temp is from around 14 to 35 degrees Celsius.
The valve is self venting when with a full gas tank there is a lot gas venting out when you try and fill it some more, if it doesn't seem to vent at all after some time then maybe a non venting one but Accucraft have in recent times always used venting ones.
Even though I am in a warm climate I always use the "Camping mix" butane usually around 20-30% propane and find it excellent but Butane also works well except in very cool weather.
You will have great fun learning to "drive" this loco especially pulling a big load and I get the greatest enjoyment from loco's that I need to drive with axle water pumps and adjust regulator and fire.
Have fun and post some more images when you get a chance.
russell


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

yellow_cad said:


> Can anyone explain why the C-18 seems so difficult to get lit inside at seemingly idea conditions in this video


I wondered the same thing watching this video before my hands on experience. Mine is no where near this troubling and usually have the fire successfully lit after maybe two attempts. I put the BBQ lighter in the fire box, open the gas valve slowly which gives you an blue fire ball effect and immediately turn on the draft fan at this point you should have a healthy fire. The draft fan is definitely needed until some pressure is built and at that point you can open the locomotives blower and remove the fan. The blower needs to be opened when the locomotive is not moving and you can close the blower once moving since the locomotive creates it own draft. It is really a great locomotive, I am just a novice and need to learn how to be a good fireman.

Yes Pete and others have provided a great deal of info in such little time. This is turning out to be a blast for me and a great forum.

-Kevin


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

I just bought this from Walmart. Does anyone know the butane propane ratio?



Robot or human?


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Here’s a few for you:

butane, isobutane, propane)
Primus – 70%,10%,20%
MSR – 0%,80%,20%
Coleman – 60%,0%,40%-i think they may have changed their formulation to 70/30 now but I’ll have to verify that.

Sam


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

If this Coleman brand is 60/40 will it be ok?


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

I’m sure it will work fine for most conditions. I have usually purchased Primus but I’ll pick up Coleman’s product and give it a try in one of my big gas-eating engines….

Sam


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

Walmart has 15.5 oz Coleman cans for under $8.
I have an electric candle lighter I use, I really had to get in there to spark the gas.

Maybe next time I run I'll set up my camera.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

I am curious to see what your results are with this fuel because my walmart is 5 minutes away from me.
The camping/outdoor store near me has Jetpower by Jetboil but same as Coleman it does not specify the ratio.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Jetpower, Jetboils proprietary brand of fuel, is a specific mixture of 80% iso-butane and 20% propane that creates a higher vapor pressure making it perform better in colder conditions.

Butane: Works best in warm weather. 30°F +
Iso-butane: Works well in warm and coolish weather 11°F +
Propane: Best for cold weather. – 44°F +

Obviously, if you’re running in crazy weather, more propane is better if your tank is designed to handle the pressures….otherwise, wait to run in warmer temps.

Sam


Hope this helps.
Sam


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

I'll have to go back and try a can of the Jetpower. It would definitely be nice if it works good considering the store down the street from me has a pretty big selection of sizes.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

RioGrandeFan said:


> Mine is no where near


Most Accu locos have a collar around the burner mount on the backhead. It is normal for it to be fully back, or max open. I've heard it suggested that closing the air holes with your fingers while lighting makes the flame jump back to the burner quickly. Don't try this when hot. Maybe that affected the loco in the video.

No fake coal? On a $3000+ loco!!


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

No fake coal? On a $3000+ loco!!
[/QUOTE]

Thats what I told them! HAHA


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## yellow_cad (Oct 30, 2020)

To get the Wally $8 propane mix, I believe you need to buy it online and do a pickup. In the store, it is more expensive, but online for pickup it is the lower price.


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

I steamed mine twice this afternoon. The first time was on rollers in the garage, that video is uncut 52 minutes and still uploading. I'll add that link in the morning. I wanted to show the whole run so seasoned steamers could weigh in. Garage temp is 45F, tender water is 68F and I am running straight Butane.





Link to video.


My second time Steaming this afternoon I ran mine outside for the first time. My third time firing it up. The first two times were on rollers.
I have the same water and fuel outside, temp was 34F.






This is the link to the video.

I initially wanted to record more of it, but then I realized I just wanted to enjoy the engine I've been waiting for.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

I sure wish my sight glass would act like yours. I might have some restrictions in mine. One minute mine is full the next it’s empty, the blow down valve seems to help but I’m constantly using it to see the boiler level. I never did see you use the blow down to verify the water level. And a pretty good run time as well.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

I fixed my sight glass issue. The holes in the banjo bolts that thread into the boiler had brass burs and once i cleaned those out the sight glass readings were much much better. Before if I rolled the engine back and forth with water in the boiler the water in the sight glass would not move, now it does. 

Now my issue is with the gas tank. Today I only ran the locomotive for 30 minutes but had to refuel it twice. Doesnt seem good considering the video above you ran for about 50 minutes on the rollers. Maybe I have a crappy filler valve on the tank.


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Glad you have sorted the sight glass problem and yes you might have a problem with the gas filler valve. It sounds like a partially filled gas tank to me.
First are you filling until the excess gas comes out past vent in the filler valve? Assuming of course it's a venting gas filler valve. 
How long do you get (time wise) before you have no gas? Always 15 minutes or sometimes much longer?
Have you checked for gas leaks, the old soapy water with a paintbrush technique works to see for bubbles. 
Is the flame just going out and there is still some gas in the tank? If so can you re-light the burner?

Re filling in cold weather, you say 34F or 1.1C, that to me is very cold and it is likely the poor fill is temperature related as a difference in pressure is needed to transfer from gas dispenser to loco gas tank and if dispenser is also really cold the pressure difference will not be much hence a low fill. Try the filling indoors again, when everything is warmed, then see if you get a better fill and longer run on your rollers again, if so keep the gas dispenser warmer than the gas tank on the loco when filling in really cold weather. 
Another thought, when outside if you have surrounded the loco gas tank with warm water first but the gas dispenser is at a very cold 34F (1.1C) then the pressure will rise very quickly in the warmer loco gas tank so transfer may also be poor. Maybe fill loco gas tank before putting in warm water in the tender bath or fill gas tank indoors first. Just a few suggestions here but it's either a dodgy gas filler valve that doesn't fill or vent properly or low temperature related when filling outside.
Hope this helps
Russell


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

Yes I did fill until gas started venting/spraying from the filler valve it was 50F in my garage where I filled the gas tank and ran on rollers. I did have one runtime of 45ish minutes before. When the fire goes out the tank is empty. Every time I press on the filler valve with fingernail and nothing comes, I unscrew the gas regulator completely out. It's empty. I guess I can try to fill it inside where it 68-70F. I have not checked for leaks with soap but I will. When I had a ruby many many years ago I never had a single gas issue I even use to store my butane gas in my little shed outside where I kept the lawnmower.
For now I'll order a filler valve just eliminate that possibility.

Thanks for all the tips!


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

OK, let us all know if the new gas filler valve solves the problem as you should get the 45 minutes of runtime and be interesting to find out.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

Will do.


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

I will say this about my running habits. I run extremely lean. The flame is just enough. This engine taught me to open it up more. The other thing I did when filling, disconnected the gas hose from the engine and filled using the gas valve venting out the hose. My tank couldn't get any fuller. 

The filler valve is self venting, but the butane cans I have are equipped with tips too big to allow the valve to vent properly on its own.
The adapter I got from The Train Department is properly sized and works great. I have not run the engine on blended fuel yet, just tested the filler.

In regards to Russell's tips on temperature differences, my wife praises my hot hands in cool weather, keeping her hands warm on walks. I hold the butane can near the bottom where the fluid is. This helps heat the fluid to vapor increasing pressure better than holding the can where it's already vapor.


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

RioGrandeFan said:


> Will do.


Have you had a chance to try different gas? 
I'll admit that my results were a little lack luster for what I expected. The gas wasn't as temperature sensitive as Butane, but my Ruby didn't seem to run any different Beyond the need to warm up the fuel tank the first minute or so. 

On a different matter, I'm a little disappointed in the pulling power. In my garage (50F) or outside(35F) my Ruby out performed. I feel it comes down to the core two factors, steam production, and traction.

I'll start a new thread for that discussion and link it here.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

Hopefully I can try the camping gas tomorrow. 



Tdreabe said:


> The other thing I did when filling, disconnected the gas hose from the engine and filled using the gas valve venting out the hose. My tank couldn't get any fuller.


Do you leave gas regulator slightly open the entire time you are filling the gas tank?


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## Tdreabe (May 3, 2020)

Not anymore now that I have the correct size filling nozzle. If I use a butane can made to fit an appliance the nozzle is too big and covers the vent. Then I'll crack the fuel valve.


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

ferroequinologist said:


> OK, let us all know if the new gas filler valve solves the problem as you should get the 45 minutes of runtime and be interesting to find out.


I finally got around to making a gas filler valve tool and installing the new valve. 

After installing the new valve I began filling with fuel until showing signs of a full tank (gas spraying out around the valve) this didn't take long at all, so I lit the fire...it only stayed lit for about 12 minutes and the tank was completely empty. At this point I was pretty bummed. But then I remembered back in the day when I had a Ruby it felt like it took almost longer to fill the gas tank and then I thought this cant be right considering the gas tank is quite larger than the Ruby tank. Basically what is happening for me is that I don't have the fuel can sitting properly on the filler valve so when it transfers gas to the tank it is spraying and I think its full but it's not. So when it starts spraying early I just reposition the can until it stops spraying. It actually takes quite a bit of time to get the tank full (without wasting gas) and now that I have a good idea on how long it takes to fill the tank I actually know when its full.

It was a great learning experience for me and I am happy there isn't anything wrong with my locomotive. Once I got the tank full the fire stayed lit for 50 minutes. I guess at least now I have a spare filler valve incase one actually does go out. This locomotive is fitted with the smaller 3mm valve and these may more sensitive than bigger valve.


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Great, sounds like the filler spigot needs to be exactly positioned and this is just like all my gas fired loco's as they all need that 'jiggling to position' to get a good seal when filling so your are not alone there. Fifty minutes run time sounds about right for a gas fill on these bigger loco's and if you want to go a bit longer, do a quick top up of the gas after you have boiled the cold water to working pressure and the fifty minutes will start from there.
You have a great loco that will behave like a 'real one' and give you plenty of enjoyment.
Russell


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## RioGrandeFan (1 mo ago)

ferroequinologist said:


> do a quick top up of the gas after you have boiled the cold water to working pressure


That is a great idea. I guess there is no worry about filling with locomotive at operating temps since there is no flame or spark.


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Yes but remember to shut off the gas so there is no flame when you do a top up of the gas. Re light when ready.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I cheat, heat my distilled water FOR THE BOILER in the microwave, usually to about 175'F+, doesn't take long to start boiling.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

RioGrandeFan said:


> I just reposition the can until it stops spraying. It actually takes quite a bit of time to get the tank full


Tell me about it. Repositioning the filler isn't unusual, though if you get one that doesn't need 'repositioning' you may end up using it all the time. I have an original Accucraft 'gas filler' which is basically a tube - and requires 3 hands to make it work! However, mine is now stuck on the end of a clear tube and a valve that fits my butane cans. It also has a washer soldered about mid-way so I can continue to push down when my fingers are tired. You might find some useful info in this thread:
Butane can adaptors

The EBT #12 and the K's have an enormous tank and use almost a full can of Butane! Takes forever to fill.



RioGrandeFan said:


> since there is no flame


As long as you turn the gas off first


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## CharlesTrains (Jan 4, 2020)

I don't have a C-18 but have been following this thread for a while. I thought of an idea that might be worth a try. In the past members created a tent over the poker burners on Accucraft locomotives. What if you created a tent over the ceramic burner like was done for the poker burners. I have a Bix burner for my Wilesco steam engines and made a tent to fit over the unit. I used stainless steel wire screen and had the tent top set about 1/2 inch above the top of the burner. When I lit the burner off, the ceramic heated up and glowed a bright red color as did the wire screen. The flame could be turned up higher than before, and not have the flame blow off of the ceramic burner unit. I left the tent higher up to allow combustion to take place on the burner unit as described in the Bix set-up instructions. Thoughts anybody on this idea?
Charles M


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

RioGrandeFan said:


> No fake coal? On a $3000+ loco!!


Here's a solution:








The Bachmann K-27 coal load (about $30 including shipping from the Bachmann Store in 3! days) is very close in dimensions. I cut off the cylindrical post extensions on the bottom studs and then used a micro table saw to trim 1/8" from the front and 1/4" from each side per the photo below. Strictly for display since plastic.


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