# IE & W Ry NEW construction



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

The management of the IE& W Railway is pleased to announce a major construction project to be undertaken immediately. 

The gauge one main line will be extended approximately 2200 feet following the projected route of the 7.5 inch gauge "ride on" track. The new line will feature a minimum radius of 75 feet and a three track main line with high speed crossovers. Six sidings will be provided for the outside mains to pull a train off for refueling and or water stops. These sidings will be about 250 feet long.

A gravel path may be placed along the right of way for "mobility challenged" [mostly lazy] engineers to follow their train with a motorized cart.

Because of the track length, battery charging stations will be provided along side water tanks for R/C locomotives unable to make a full circuit.

To defray the cost of construction, a "distance measuring" car will be coupled to each train to record track usage, and a fee charged on the basis of "mileage". In addition, we will be following the lead of David Morgan-Kirby and installing "timing sections" will be used to insure proper prototypical track speed is maintained. Violators will be assessed hefty fines, providing a revenue source for continued maintenance.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, maybe a smart-pass or E-Z-pass system to charge for each pass?


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Just remember, if you can't see it with Google Earth, it is not real garden railroading.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jerry 

You can easily see the CURRENT IE&W Ry with Google Maps or Google Earth.


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

So, Jim, any reason to make this major announcement on April Fools day ... ?

Llyn


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim:
Might I also suggest scales to be added to provide a revenue source for the IE&W based on tonnage hauled? Those electronically minded could easily develop and install a rolling scale system for you using transponders to provide minimal delay for the measurement. 
Seems reasonable since some patrons given rights over the line are pulling considerable rolling stock....
Best Regards,
Cliff


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By llynrice on 01 Apr 2013 08:53 AM 
So, Jim, any reason to make this major announcement on April Fools day ... ?

Llyn


In all the excitement of Grand Plans, I doubt if the date was even considered....Just a lucky coincidence!










John


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, 

I think I'm in big trouble based on both mileage and speed! 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, to offset these track mileage charges, I respectfully request a credit for interstate miles driven to get to your place------ 

Larry


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

*Hey! I volunteered to help with the extension BUT this was not what was discussed!*


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Alan in Adirondacks on 01 Apr 2013 12:49 PM 
Jim, 

I think I'm in big trouble based on both mileage and speed! 

Best regards, 

Alan 

Yea but Alan at least you don't have to run to catch up with the train you can just drive along it.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim

Anyone coming this spring would be "foolish" not be assist with your expansion....given that there iis probably a pot of gold at the end of the track! Seems having a good sense of humor will allow for this grand layout to become a reality!
Enjoyed the notice...BTW- if this did happen will there be any Harvey Houses along the pike (with Harvey girls)!


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, will the new 7-1/2" track be elevated also? My old knees hurt getting down----


Larry


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles, I think Jim's new layout will be so automated that the Harvey Houses will appear only when SANTA FE trains are on the track. I have heard that when the HHs are out there will be coffee and donuts for the operator as the train passes by.

Chuck


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Since I plan on staying with 1:20.3 scale, I guess I need to start modeling 152-1/4" gauge (12'-8-1/4") brooaad gauge. Ought to be quite stable!


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Larry 

SORRY... the 7.5 in will be ground level. I know a guy who lived near "Seven Corners" in Falls Church VA that had most of his 7.5in/4.75in dual gauge elevated. The supporting posts were made from cut offs of telephone poles. At least if you derail a 1300 pound loco it is already at ground level. Besides... you are a New jersey boy.. you have 7.25 in gauge. 

No credit for "distance traveled" .. I can't afford to pay you guys $ 0.18 per mile.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Scott 

Isambard Kingdom Brunnel, father of the British GWR would be proud that you have "out Broad Gauged" him. After all, his "Standard Gauge" was only 7 ft 1/4 in.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Hi Jim, Since I was never able to come to your neat layout when I lived in Delaware, I really can't see it now. (Utah) Will you give me a hint where to look for it on Google Earth. I have studied your pictures and videos for years, but never been there, even though you invited me once. 

Thanks
Paul


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Paul

I am near the intersection of Va 9 and VA 287 north of Purcellville VA. The photo below is far better than any "Google maps" image.










This is from November of 2010... so some changes have been made to the track layout, but not the structure.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Wow, awesome layout. Also a great picture. Much better than GE. This is mainly a steam track, but isn't some of it powered too? What a setting. 

Thanks
Paul


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim;
I just read your post on reconstruction of your layout. I'm clearing a few acres of my vineyard in Sonoma for replanting. Planning acre+ is going for big layout. I will buy all of your old track, $3/ft for brass or $4/ft for SS. Not interested in any AL, though if that's a deal breaker we can work something out. About ties damage it's ok I have a cheap China supplier. Mixed rail code is not an issue for me. Switches you will probably want to keep but I'll buy as many as you will sell. The time difference isn't a problem when you call. If you other interest call me anyway and give me a chance to compete. (sorry to broadcast this but I figure you check into MLS before reading email from me.)
Chris


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, 

I don't know how much luck you are going to have with buying Jim's existing track. It sounds like Jim's 2200' extension is a "virtual track" -- what with the announcement being broadcast on April 1st. Latest information is that Jim was actually relaying his yard with 6" centers to gain 25% more storage. As another pundit is supposed to have observed, "I guess that means that the yard won't be full by 9:00 -- this should extend it to 9:30!" 

Chris, since your post was April 2 does that mean you are actually going to be forfeiting vineyard for trains? Sounds like fun. 

In any case, looking forward to seeing you at NSS in Sacramento. 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Chris 

All my track is code 250 NS, NO BRASS, NO SS. So I guess you will have to find another source for used track. Besides, an EXPANSION involves adding more track... cannot imagine scrapping out the old stuff. 

Alan is right... The REAL expansion is re-laying the main yard from 7 to 8 tracks and lengthening each siding a few feet by relocating the switches. I hope to complete the project this week. 

Apparently everyone saw through my "plan".


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Jim, I sure hope that the renovation will eventually include a new picture of the track. What a fabulous place, I can't imagine it 2200 feet bigger. 

Paul


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 02 Apr 2013 07:23 AM 
Chris 

All my track is code 250 NS, NO BRASS, NO SS. So I guess you will have to find another source for used track. Besides, an EXPANSION involves adding more track... cannot imagine scrapping out the old stuff. 

Alan is right... The REAL expansion is re-laying the main yard from 7 to 8 tracks and lengthening each siding a few feet by relocating the switches. I hope to complete the project this week. 

Apparently everyone saw through my "plan". 

Apparently you didn't see through mine. I gave you two pretty solid hints about the time zones; posted at 11:18PM PST April 1st. I'll make it simpler for you next year.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Chris 

YOU are ALWAYS so serious... I would never expect YOU to "prank" someone, especially an "innocent" like me. Trust me, I have been offered a lot less for old track by people who were completely serious about $0.75/foot.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Paul 

You are right... NO sane person can imagine it expanding from 560 feet to 2760 feet. I CAN... but DA BOSS would be most unhappy if a project like that "derailed" yet again, her 7.5in gauge track for HER locomotive. 

As Alan R said... it will be a "virtual expansion"... at least for now.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, 

This expansion and revised track layout could warrant the addition of track pans. That is, for those running time schedules that do not allow for lengthy delays at water plugs or slow orders on sidings.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan;

I would love to see small steamers taking water "on the fly." Don't think the locomotive's operator would fare too well during that maneuver. He/she is bound to get a soaking - perhaps limited, but still pretty wet for the upper body. Still, it just might be refreshing on a very hot day.









Have fun,
David Meashey


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David 

Track pans on the B&O were 1200 feet long, on tangent track. That would require 37.5 feet of dead level straight track in 1:32. Not many layouts have that. My guess is that because of the physics involved, the model track pans would need to be much longer to get much water into the tender.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim;

And since water does not "scale down," the impact of a model scoop hitting the water in a scale track pan could have several bad results: Tear the scoop off the bottom of the tender. Violently part the tender from the locomotive. Suddenly stop the train and cause the cars to jackknife over the track like pick-up sticks. No, I was just "funning" with Ryan. Physics is physics. Some things about our trains do not scale down so well.

But it is fun to imagine stuff. I suppose the Crown Metal Products 4-4-0 (4.5 tons in working order) I ran at Hershey Park could have been adapted to take water "on the fly," BUT the engineer would definitely have gotten soaked, the tender might have bucked like a rodeo bull, and since there was no ashpan - the fire could have been extinguished.

Some stuff is just better left to the realm of real railroading.

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Hello Jim 

Nice to see a GOOD Aprils fools joke! 
Anyway Just wondering: How do you actually measure the lenght of the track? 
Is it the total amount of track used? 
Or is it the longest "circle" where you dont run on the same track? 
Or how long yoc can run "continously" without running on the same track? 
Or meters/feets of Mainline used. (storage track not counted) 
Or something different? 

Im thinking. If you expand your track with an extra outer track. Will it then be bigger? And would a track with just one line be seen as bigger if it has a larger "circle" than one with fx tripple lines, but a smaller "circle"... 

Im asking quite serious, since this is an issue we often discuss here in Denmark (where we dont have the yearlong knowledge as fx US and UK) 

Regards 

David Clement 

DENMARK


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

David, I don't know how others measure the length of their mainline, but I did it with a bicycle wheel. I tried a tape measure, it really is a two person job, especially on curves. I measured the circumference of the wheel. Then I placed the wheel at a easily remembered point on the track with the valve stem at the bottom. I then rolled the wheel around the track counting each time the valve stem was at the bottom. Multiply the revolutions by the circumference and add the length of the last incomplete rotation.

Chuck


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David 

One full circuit is 560 feet. There are two parallel mains plus five passing tracks on the Ga 1. There is a full circuit of 32mm [Ga 0] on the inside, about 555 feet. Minimum radius is 24 feet. 

The yards have 13 storage tracks totaling about 375-400 feet of usable storage. The twin leads to the steaming bay are 90 feet each. There are 60 switches on the layout. 

Total track is about 3875 feet. Refer to the aerial photo I posted earlier.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By Dave Meashey on 02 Apr 2013 12:27 PM 
Jim;

And since water does not "scale down," the impact of a model scoop hitting the water in a scale track pan could have several bad results: Tear the scoop off the bottom of the tender. Violently part the tender from the locomotive. Suddenly stop the train and cause the cars to jackknife over the track like pick-up sticks. No, I was just "funning" with Ryan. Physics is physics. Some things about our trains do not scale down so well.

But it is fun to imagine stuff. I suppose the Crown Metal Products 4-4-0 (4.5 tons in working order) I ran at Hershey Park could have been adapted to take water "on the fly," BUT the engineer would definitely have gotten soaked, the tender might have bucked like a rodeo bull, and since there was no ashpan - the fire could have been extinguished.

Some stuff is just better left to the realm of real railroading.

Have fun,
David Meashey

Dave, actually you can scale down the impact by introducing fine bubbles in the water... foamy water can sink a ship by reduced displacement. Carbonation might do it.

John


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"Carbonation might do it."

John;

Uh Oh! Somehow images of the Three Stooges and seltzer bottles come to my mind. I think I had better not go THERE!

Thanks for the information, though,
Davie Meashey


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Soitainly 

John


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Jim 

Thanks for clarifying things. 
no matter how you measure your track, no doupt it is big. Hope to get to your area someday and see it. 

Anway- With 3875 feets of track you must have your hands full with track work! 

Our track here is tiny in comparison, but still needs regular attention. This is mainly due to the smaller 11 feet radius used on some spots. If I was to do it Again I would go for much much bigger radius. 

PS: the Water scoop thing is not souch a wild thing. We have a level section of 30 meter reserved for this........ so one day.. 

regards 

David


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim:
Do you have your track and switches setup so a train can spiral through entire outland railroad line? If not you need to fix that right away. Then at your steam ups there could be any number of competitions; loco that can run the farthest on one fuel and/or water load; farthest the fastest; farthest and slowest; ... the oportunities are downright endless. And just think of the equally endless celebratory drinking opportunities ! They work so well together; want more drinking then more contests, less then less. (doubt the latter will ever happen)

Cool !

I think that formula would suit you just fine.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

LOL - I hope nobody is about to throw a pie ... 

It seems easy to scoop up water - with enough forward motion to loft the water through the channel with frictional losses in addition to overcoming gravity. The impact of the water ought to be somewhat offset by the kinetic energy of the tender / train. I think reducing the surface tension of the water is a step in the right direction, but any additives may be bad for the boiler. I'd be more concerned about deploying the scoop at the right moments, though a dip in the track would solve that problem (if the railway had no switches.) 

On a circular model railway, you'd only need to take up enough water to replace that boiled off during one circuit, not fully replenish. I think it would work. Pretty easy to test, too. Could probably replenish beer in the dining car, too ...


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Not being a chemist... What if you make your own carbonated water by just adding CO2 to distilled water?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

CO2 is kept in water by pressure. Have you ever wondered why Champagne bottles are so thick and heavy, compared to normal wine bottles? The vintners got tired of mopping up spilled wine and broken glass. The wire wrap on the cork is another clue, you need that to hold the cork in place. And if you aren't careful when you open the bottle, the cork will fly across the room and derail your new train running around the ceiling causing it to fall on the floor and creating a major mess. 

Once the pressure is released the CO2 starts bubbling out. That is why champagne, beer, soda water, coke, pepsi and all other fizzy drinks go flat shortly after being opened. You might be able to dissolve sodium carbonate in the water and have the engine spray an acid just in front of the tender. This would cause a momentary fizz, but it would lead to many other undesirable complications. The first of which is dissolved solids in the water being boiled. 

Big time boiler scale.

If you lived in Death Valley you might be able to dissolve more CO2 in the water, but you still have to be able to get it out when you want to.


Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Well I opened a can 'o worms eh? Tiny bubbles..... 
Just take a length of your EZ Aire pnuematic switch controller tubing, drill # 77 holes along the top, glue it to the bottom of your water pan and activate at scoopin' time. 
Keep the cold ones for more presssing duties. 

Chuck, who runs live steam near the ceiling? Curious minds.... 

John


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