# QSI Whistle Functionality



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Is there a way to program the QSI board so you automatically get two whistle blasts going forward/three reverse (and--ideally--one once stopped)? I know you can do that with both Phoenix and Sierra, but I'm at a loss to find anything in the Quantum's documentation which would indicate how you could set that up on the QSI board. I found where you can program it to blow the grade crossing signal and map that to a function key, but that's about as close as I've been able to find. Am I just blind?


Later,

K


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin... I haven't found a way to do that either.

I have 2 QSI/Battery powered installations using the gwire receiver and the new NCE gwire transmitter and I have to "play" the horn/whistle button for all horn functions. Tapping the button gives me a short, different toned sound whereas holding the button down for different lengths of time give a totally different sound. I've learned to like the difference.

My steam module has very different characteristics and sound variations than the diesel has. Maybe it's just the horn/whistle types I have programmed into each one.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin, I don't know either--sorry. The automated whistle is actually one of the things I dislike about Phoenix


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

As I understand it (not from practical use but from reading), a general characteristic of DCC sound decoders is the LACK of trigger inputs...not just for a whistle or bell...everything. Triggered chuffs for example are not usually supported. QSI is just one of them...and certainly my smaller Digitrax sound decoders lack trigger inputs. On the other hand, these sound decoders are less expensive than Phoenix and Sierra...a whole lot less expensive....so this is kind of ya-get-whatcha-pay-for. I think I've heard that there's a new QSI board in development that HAS trigger inputs on the car. So, folks that like putting magnets on their track may soon get the triggered crossing signals.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Mikey, in this case he wants automatic whistle signals based on locomotive movement, not external trigger. 

I have not found a way to do that either, it does not appear to be part of QSI's firmward. Sierra and Phoneix optionally do it. Old PH boards would do it but not directionally.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The only function that you can do is the grade crossing alert by programing. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Most DCC sound units do not have speed triggered sounds. That said, the QSI does have some, but not the specific ones you want Kevin. (see the squealing brakes setup). 

As more people go to remote control, automatic sounds, that were sort of a replacement for not having remote control, will probably fall by the wayside, just like track magnets. 

I also expect the use of trigger inputs to fall off, as direct commands, like the 30 available from QSI is practical and work now, whereas having 30 physical trigger inputs on a remote system just does not make sense, your loco would be all wires. 

I prefer to run the whistle myself, since I have a whistle button. I typically signal prototypically when starting off, and I can impart my personal "flavor" rather than have a pre-programmed timing and cadence. 

All that said, I can help get it into the suggestion box, maybe if enough people want it, it might happen. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg. 

Having the option of automatic direction toot sounds for starting and one for stop would be a good idea. Especially if the next generation of the QSI sound does have triggerable sounds as well as DCC controlled sounds. 
As long as QSI does not have that option and Phoenix does, then QSI will have a hard time knocking Phoenix off the perch as the sound system of choice for R/C controlled functions here in Australia.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's interesting. I always found the automated whistles _really_ annoying. Always exactly the same sound, at exactly the same time, regardless of what the operator is doing. I'm surprised that people prefer it--if you are operating the loco, and you have control of the whistle, why not just blow the sequence? I suppose that's minority opinion.

A naive question--did a loco engaged in switching operations have to observe the same whistle sequence for every movement? I really don't know.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

About 10 years ago while touring garden railroads, the host (a retired school teacher that really liked to talk) was telling me all about his new R/C system that allowed him blow the whistle on command. He was very excited about it. After having been there for over half an hour and hearing him tell the same story of the R/C whistle command repeatedly to every guest that came in, I was starting to wonder .... We had to move on to the next layout, so finally I had to ask him "Excuse me Sir, but could we hear the whistle just ONCE before we leave?".

I like the auto start/stop toots, but are they prototypical, since they aren't played until after the loco is moving?

Personally, I like triggered sounds on my layout. That is why my controls have the options for both manual and automatic sound triggers. The automatic triggers can be programmed to only trip a certain percentage of the time, which eliminates the "annoyance" factor, and adds interest and mystic to the layout for your visitors.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

did a loco engaged in switching operations have to observe the same whistle sequence for every movement? 
To my knowledge, yes. At least I've never been around a locomotive that was doing switching and _not_ heard the signals. In many cases, the locomotive engineers are very adept at blowing two or three short blasts, so each signal lasts only a second or two at the longest. They're not terribly obtrusive. 

but are they prototypical, since they aren't played until after the loco is moving? 
Not if you've got them programmed well. I know on the Sierra, you can set the voltage at which the signals trigger, so you set that below the voltage at which the motor starts turning and they'll blow prior to the train moving. I assume Phoenix has the same functionality, but I don't have the programming CD so I can't say for certain how fine-tunable that trigger point is relative to when the motor starts. The trick is that if you're using DCC, Revolution, or some other system where you can program the throttle to "jump" to the voltage at which the motor starts turning, then you skip that grey area where sounds can be triggered prior to the motor turning. The solution there is to dial back your start voltage a hair to allow for that. 

And thanks for the answers. I'm suffering a bit of information overload, so at least I know to stop looking.  


Later, 

K


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Good tip on the start sounds Kevin. I just need to do some tweaking.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Del when using DCC if using the QSI or Phoenix you can trigger the sounds before the loco even begins to move. Very prototypical. Later RJD


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 02 Dec 2009 10:46 AM 
Del when using DCC if using the QSI or Phoenix you can trigger the sounds before the loco even begins to move. Very prototypical. Later RJD 
Of course that can be done with any system using manual sound commands, not just DCC. And with the Phoenix, you can always just turn off the auto start/stop toots if you don't like them. Lots of options!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Since Del and Tony have been in the business of putting these systems in, I will try to take this information to QSI. The problem is that their plate is very full with the next gen and the USAT one, but I'm trying to establish a prioritized wish list of features. Maybe they could publish a "wish list" every so often, and make sure they were putting in exactly the features people want.

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

When "automatic sounds" are being discussed I am only referring to the start forward, start revers, and stop toots. Not those very annoying repetitive reed switch triggered grade crossing sounds. 

I have yet to find a sound system where the manual toots can be made as brief with manual control as they are with the automated sounds available from Phoenix and Sierra. 
One can only hope that QSI see there is a potential market and act accordingly when planning future products. 

Thank you Greg for realising this and offering to mention it to QSI.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Depending the horn that is chosen you will have various length of times when the horns are blown manually as to how long they will blow. Nathan will blow longer than say a Wabco horn. You need to play with the various horns settings to see the difference as compared to trigger sounds buy read switch. Later RJD


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I asked Tony at Tony's Trains this question back in March and his reply was simply, "Not yet but soon, several months". So who knows, maybe it is something they're working on?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

In the QSI "repertoire", some of the whistles and horns have a short sound as well as a long sound. A short press of the horn/whistle button will give you a short burst, and longer duration will give a different sound. I'll try to list which ones do that on my QSI tips page. 

I have both wired and wireless cabs on my NCE DCC system, and I can definitely do nice short horn/whistle bursts. 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you go to QSI's web site, you can listen to all the sounds in their library. The hiccup with the short whistle sounds is that a few samples use a noticeably different whistle tone for the short as they do the long. (The "K-28" and "Shay" whistles are two examples). I've got two decoders here that were programmed with their K-28 sound, and found that a quick press of the whistle button would result in either the short tone or a somewhat truncated long tone, often both in the same sequence of quick whistle blasts. That's a bit weird to the ear. Just something to listen for--you can hold the whistle button down just a touch longer and get the longer ("real") whistle sound or just download a new whistle altogether. 

For forward/reverse signals, my vote would be to have specific digital sound files expressly for that. This way you could record the quick staccato blasts typical of those signals that you can't duplicate by pushing a button on a transmitter. 

Later, 

K


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Precisely Kevin. 

The fun is going to be when the Whistle and Horn sounds are made quillable.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The fun is going to be when the Whistle and Horn sounds are made quillable. 
Yeah, I'm actually _not_ looking forward to that because I'll immediately want to replace all my sound systems. Back in the days of analog sound, dad designed a whistle that was quillable using the proportional control of the standard R/C transmitters (similar to the old PFM sound systems). The digital recordings are a vast improvement over sine waves, but I miss being able to play them. 

Later, 

K


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin. 
Having a variable control signal is one thing that most non Digital Proportional control systems *do not* have. 
Phoenix have indicated to me that is something they are definitely interested in. 
However, given the snails pace development of the (still to be released) P8, don't hold your breath.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 04 Dec 2009 03:20 PM 

The fun is going to be when the Whistle and Horn sounds are made quillable. 
Ummm.. Question from the back of the room, here? What's "quillable"?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

High Gary. 
The generally accepted meaning is the ability to vary the pitch of the Whistle as the stick is moved from one position to another. Much like pulling the real life whistle cord further down. 
In other words be able to manually control the lead in and trail out of the sound. 
There is a fantastic art in the ability to create varying whistle sounds. 
Just listen to recordings like "Whistling Thru Dixie" or "Steam Railroading under Thundering Skies" and you will know what I mean. Mournful is one description that comes to mind. 
None of the sound system do that properly now. 
However, they do manage to achieve quite good realism with the programmed stop, start and grade crossing sounds. 
The next thing after quillable whistles would be variable chuff cut off. 
Whomsoever gets that right in the market place will make a killing. So to speak.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

YES! The qullable whistle. I'll spend hours on that. Probably won't even run the train, I'll just sit there trying to get just the right sound. 

Variable chuff cutoff also--and then I want the DCC system to give me a readout of coal and water consumption and steam pressure. I think it'd be a lot of fun to try to run a model steam loco with the same priorities and parameters as an actual steam loco.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

the current state of quillable whistles/horns is, in my small sample, very dismal. I use a Digitrax command station that has a one dimensional "analog" control of a whistle function. I theory that is all you need because a whistle or horn cord has only one dimension of control. 

However, in practice, it doesn't work so well. The problem is at the decoder end. To make a "proper" sound will probably require a digital synthesizer instead of a digital recording. Nobody has that now. 

These two links go to videos of decoders that I have that support a "playable" or "quillable" whistle or horn. 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips11/tsunami_tips.html#playable 
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips10/digitrax_decoder_tips.html#sfx0416


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I have no experience of any of the (so called) playable whistles George mentions. 
I find it hard to understand how any real degree of control could be achieved with the minuscule amount of movement available in a pushbutton. 
To me, for a quillable whistle to be effectively controlled, would require something like the amount of spring loaded stick movement available from a Digital Proportional stick radio. Or, the same sort of stick used with the DCC hand piece. 
I don't believe a knob or pushbutton could hack it.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Not QSI, but I have a very fine quillable whistle in my Triplex!! Works splendidly with the thumb control!! DCS system Regal


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

*As I have begone my education in G scale train sounds, it amazes me that QSI has turned their back on the RC Battery powered systems market. LGB might be considered the company that gave G scale it's biggest push in the last 30 years and they use both DCC and none polarity reversing "triggered" sounds which enables us "none-DCC" RC battery folks to still enjoy their sounds. What's with QSI?? I'm also wondering why Del , Tony or some other clever electronic genius hasn't come up with an RC system that will do a quick polarity reversal which would enable us none DCC folks to access some of the QSI sounds? Do I have that right Greg? If we had an rc "button" that would very momentarily reverse polarity we would basically be able to do what track powered DC systems can do. yes? and while we're talking sound (one of my favorite subject these days) what happened to Small Scale Railways? have they thrown in the towel?*
*Don*


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Don. 
I can already do that momentary flip reversal with my trackside R/C designed for the H0/0n30" Broadway Ltd / QSI equipped locos. 
The problem is setting the idle voltage and still be able to change direction. My system was designed before the LS QSI was available and cannot be set low enough if battery voltages above 16 are being used. 
I have recently tested my BELTROL R/C equipment with a QSI equipped GP-40 and discovered (as with the smaller scale versions) that QSI does not like PWM output controllers. It will work just fine on pure linear filtered DC. 
As most on board battery R/C systems are only PWM output, it seems to me that developing a Linear output R/C ESC for one particular sound system with (very) limited control of the sound functions, is simply not worth doing as a business proposition.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 05 Dec 2009 05:45 PM 
*As I have begone my education in G scale train sounds, it amazes me that QSI has turned their back on the RC Battery powered systems market. LGB might be considered the company that gave G scale it's biggest push in the last 30 years and they use both DCC and none polarity reversing "triggered" sounds which enables us "none-DCC" RC battery folks to still enjoy their sounds. What's with QSI?? I'm also wondering why Del , Tony or some other clever electronic genius hasn't come up with an RC system that will do a quick polarity reversal which would enable us none DCC folks to access some of the QSI sounds? Do I have that right Greg? If we had an rc "button" that would very momentarily reverse polarity we would basically be able to do what track powered DC systems can do. yes? and while we're talking sound (one of my favorite subject these days) what happened to Small Scale Railways? have they thrown in the towel?*
*Don* 


No, you don't have it right.

You are thinking of the QSI as a sound only system like a Phoenix, but it is much more. It has sophisticated motor control and lighting functions.


QSI is a DCC MOTOR and SOUND and LIGHTING decoder that also works on DC and Airwire. It was never intended to ALSO work with generic wireless systems. The world of triggered sounds is going away, it's much more efficient to use a single interface for control than a WIRE for EVERY sound or function. The QSI has over 30 controllable sounds, you think someone will make an R/C system with 30 terminals to hook up to control the sounds.

(OK all the R/C people will go nuts on this, but it's not if, it's when this will happen, mark my words) 


Right now, DCC is the most common standard for controlling multiple functions by far. There was a push that is fading to have a universal serial interface to communicate commands, the SUSI bus, but it was mostly based on communicating between a motor decoder and a sound decoder. It quickly became apparent that you can build both on the same board smaller and cheaper.


You just cannot beat the economy of integrated systems.

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 05 Dec 2009 05:45 PM 
*As I have begone my education in G scale train sounds, it amazes me that QSI has turned their back on the RC Battery powered systems market. LGB might be considered the company that gave G scale it's biggest push in the last 30 years and they use both DCC and none polarity reversing "triggered" sounds which enables us "none-DCC" RC battery folks to still enjoy their sounds. What's with QSI?? I'm also wondering why Del , Tony or some other clever electronic genius hasn't come up with an RC system that will do a quick polarity reversal which would enable us none DCC folks to access some of the QSI sounds? Do I have that right Greg? If we had an rc "button" that would very momentarily reverse polarity we would basically be able to do what track powered DC systems can do. yes? and while we're talking sound (one of my favorite subject these days) what happened to Small Scale Railways? have they thrown in the towel?*
*Don* 



Qsi works perfectly well with battery/RC. I think Greg's right, you're not understanding what it is. It's a motor controller with sound built in. It can run from batteries, using the "gwire" add on receiver card, which then lets you use battery power and either the airwire throttle o the NCE "Gwire" throttle. They have not turned their back on battery/RC; rathe they have a diffferent way to accomplish sound and motor control. Imagine the Aristo REVO had sound built in--that's more what the QSI is like. 


George is right, you would need a digital synthesizer to make a quillable whistle work well, and some kind of proportional control. The NCE throttle has proportional control in the thumbwheel, it could be used to trigger a horn synthesizer. I have sound software that works perfectly that way--for example, I have a "saxophone" sound which changes in pitch and timbre in response to a thumbwheel. The software technology for doing that is well establsihed, and I'm sure you could get a very convincing quillable whistle, but it would be a synthesized whistle. Alternatively, you could sample a real steam whistle at various steam pressures/volumes, and make thse actual recordings respond to a thumbwheel, which is what it sounds like MTH did. Not sure how much RAM and processor power that would take


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

As long as the market for battery R/C is being dominated by a system that does not have sound integration, the market for sound systems that require manually connecting wires between an ESC and a sound system will not disappear any time soon.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony, a fine point, and maybe I need to restate... my opinion is that going forwards, people will want more sound control, and having a wire for each sound will soon be an untenable interface. 

Things will evolve and change, and since DCC has a huge headstart and almost all systems are "descendents" of HO DCC systems, I believe that the interfaces to sound only decoders will have to move more to a single wire / data connection. 

The market for sound systems with a bunch of trigger wires is not going to get bigger, witness the demise of Phoenix's main competitor, the Sierra board. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg. 
The Sierra did not disappear because of wiring complexity. 
Maybe partly because of the cock-a-mamy way it had to be programmed. 
Maybe partly because dealers had to stock multiple pieces of hardware. 
Maybe partly because the hardware was outdated. 

Phoenix have no trouble selling stuff. If anything they have trouble keeping up. 

I grant you consumers may want more sounds but it has been my experience that once the novelty of all the different sounds has worn off, they are quite happy with the basics. 
Then they will go back to what is the lowest cost for the performance and the simplest to install and set up. 
After the Whistle/Horn & Bell, automatic operation seems to satisfy most users I have come across.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I did not state that Sierra failed because of wiring complexity, it's my opinion that the market was/is not big enough to support both of them. Right now people are fine with the trigger wire idea. 

I said "going forwards"... 

That applies to more sounds, evolving hardware, price pressure, and customer expectations... the future... 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

As complex and sophisticated as the hobby has the potential of becoming relative to control and sound, there's always going to be a substantial base that just wants things dirt simple. They're not going to care about whether a train toots prototypically in forward or reverse, they just want to put it on the track and have it make noise. I just sent a fellow two Bachmann chuff units I had lying around. That's about as unsophisticated as you can get, and from the letter he sent me once he installed them, he and his grandkids think it's the cat's meow. (Frankly I'd rather listen to a cat meowing, but that's just my opinion.) Even in the small scales, the percentage of modelers that push the upper limits, be it technology, modeling, construction, whatever, are very much in the minority. The vast majority of modelers don't have the interest in that level of control, and I don't see that changing. Certainly as large scale has matured over the past 4 decades, we've not seen any wholesale shift away from the basics. We've seen the other end of the spectrum expand to extraordinary levels of sophistication on all fronts, but the basics have remained unchanged. 

The successful sound systems will be easily adaptable to both environments. QSI and Phoenix both seem to do this fairly well. There's a high level of control for the modelers who want it, but the "automatic" settings for traditional track power will suit most all who run in that environment as well. I don't think building that level of flexibility into a system by itself inherently pulls modelers to take advantage of that flexibility. I think the modeler has to be predisposed to want to explore. 

Later, 

K


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You might be right, but I remember when they were announcing the REVO on the aristo forum, I kept asking "wait, you mean it doesn't have sound"? Having tried the QSI cards, I kept thinking "this is so clearly the way to go, all on one board, no accessory triggers, no extra wires, etc." I just could not believe they were spending years, and a lot of money, on a "cutting edge" control system and implementing sound in a method that's what--twenty years old? It's basically the same as the TE.


If I were Phoenix I'd be working on a soundboard with motor control, maybe working with Aristo on making an all in one board, a board that included the REVO receiver and motor and light control functions. Once or twice Lewis hinted at somethign like that. 


But you'd never be able to get a good quillable whistle with the REVO handheld.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin, you don't see it changing, I do. Let's make a gentlemen's bet of 5 bucks and revisit this in 2 years, what do you say? 

(It is the percentage of people who want sound "dirt simple") 

I think the results will be interesting. 

Regards, Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

For Phoenix to get into DCC motor control, they first have to understand DCC, which I don't think that they do based on the what that their current stuff operates on DCC. It works, but just barely and even some things that they indicate that they support don't work.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, I will take another $5.00 of that bet with you, and we all know you are going to win win win!! Hee Hee Regal


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg, nothing would please me more than to lose that bet. I think history has a good track record against that, but I'd love to see the hobby trend towards a higher level of achievement on all fronts. 

Later, 

K


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I still want to be able to set the cutoff on a steam engine and get a readout of steam pressure, water consumption, coal consumption etc. Ok, you can disable it if you want. But why not engineer that kind of thing into control systems?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You might get your wish... the QSI has the odometer function, so it would not take a giant leap to use that to decrement fuel, water, etc. 

The drift function (where the sound lessens when coasting) is already implemented, so a control over it might not be so hard. 

Everything I have seen happen is towards more realism, and more sounds to "play with", like the MTH quillable whistle. 

Regards, Greg


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