# NEW TENDER CARS FOR ASTER CHALLENGER



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

r.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Art

Just finished watching the video, looking forward to seeing the auxiliary water car at Cabin Fever next weekend. We will have photos and video.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

To me it looks like the aux tender is just a gravity feed to the primary tender. The tanks would just equalize levels on there own. It looks like the tests they were performing were with the water levels low, which would be the worst case for flow. 

Very nice engineering. 

Steve


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Why would it be made complicated getting water from the auxiliary water tender to the primary tender? One piece of tubing between the two and the levels in the two tenders will equalise.......just like the real thing! 
David M-K 
Ottawa


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

I am not as smart as most of you. The reason I said something about water being fed by axle pump, is when they mentioned they were running faster so that the axle pump would keep up. I can see now how the gravity thing would work. Whatever I will have them behindd my Challenger by June I hope.

I can learn I guess given time.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By GaugeOneLines on 04 Apr 2013 04:38 PM 
Why would it be made complicated getting water from the auxiliary water tender to the primary tender? One piece of tubing between the two and the levels in the two tenders will equalise.......just like the real thing! 
David M-K 
Ottawa 
But David,
I feel that at the speeds they were running and with the 'G' forces (maybe that should read '1' forces) involved that the water would be flung up the side of the tender and never go down the tube!
Give me a brown teapot any day!!!!! 
Far less expensive, and multi purpose.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 04 Apr 2013 06:05 PM 
Posted By GaugeOneLines on 04 Apr 2013 04:38 PM 
Why would it be made complicated getting water from the auxiliary water tender to the primary tender? One piece of tubing between the two and the levels in the two tenders will equalise.......just like the real thing! 
David M-K 
Ottawa 
But David,
I feel that at the speeds they were running and with the 'G' forces (maybe that should read '1' forces) involved that the water would be flung up the side of the tender and never go down the tube!
Give me a brown teapot any day!!!!! 
Far less expensive, and multi purpose.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada

"brown teapot..."
Yes but this is unique and has wheels thus you do not have to carry it nor need to plug it in somewhere for hot water:


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

How hard would it be for a person born with all thumbs to plumb one of these cool water cars to a Big Boy tender ??


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 05 Apr 2013 07:00 AM 

"brown teapot..."
Yes but this is unique and has wheels thus you do not have to carry it nor need to plug it in somewhere for hot water:



Charles,
I know that you know this, but a 'tea pot' is a vessel, in which one adds boiling water to tea.
The 'thing' that you have to plug in, is a 'kettle'!
Unique, yes, but as ugly as ****, and only suitable for preserved running.
In the 'real' steam days, locomotives would have to stop and add water to their tenders, and I think that as re-creators of this era, we should do the same.
I get very bored with running, and running, and running etc. without ever stopping.
It just proves that the engineer can't manage to control the throttle.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 05 Apr 2013 09:00 AM 
Posted By Charles on 05 Apr 2013 07:00 AM 

"brown teapot..."
Yes but this is unique and has wheels thus you do not have to carry it nor need to plug it in somewhere for hot water:



Charles,
I know that you know this, but a 'tea pot' is a vessel, in which one adds boiling water to tea.
The 'thing' that you have to plug in, is a 'kettle'!
Unique, yes, but as ugly as ****, and only suitable for preserved running.
In the 'real' steam days, locomotives would have to stop and add water to their tenders, and I think that as re-creators of this era, we should do the same.
I get very bored with running, and running, and running etc. without ever stopping.
It just proves that the engineer can't manage to control the throttle.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada 

David

I dont know what you think of as ugly. Looks pretty damn good when they are hooked up behind the 844 and the Challenger. Most of the kids and youngsters have never seen an engine that had to stop and get water. Just because you do not have to stop as often with the new tender does not mean that there is not some enginerring envolved.For me I cannot wait to get them behind the Challenger.


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## Aster Japan (Nov 24, 2011)

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...ge" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David 

The UP may not have used auxiliary water cars for its larger locomotives ], but they were used on the SP narrow gauge and on the AZ main line of the SP although NOT modified tenders: 

They were routine on the Tucson Division between Yuma and Tucson. The equipment was modified tank cars and the run was not considered extended. Trains were limited in where they could take water, with direction dictating the locations. Water on the Wellton and Picacho Subdivisions were at the following 

Yuma 
Wellton 
Aztec 
Sentinel 
Gila 
Maricopa 
Casa Grande 
Red Rock 
Rillito 
Tucson 

The critical water area was on the Wellton Subdivision. 

Westward trains were instructed to take full tank at Maricopa; eastward trains were instructed to take full tank at Sentinel. In this case most trains did not need water at Gila, where it could be devoted to helpers and yard engines. 

For a photo see "Southern Pacific El Paso Route Pictorial -- Southern Pacific Steam series Volume 38" page 54. Book by Jeff Ainsworth. 

On the N&W Auxiliary tenders or canteen cars, used to supplement water capacity on road locomotives and were reasonably common during the steam period. One of the best examples of their use is behind N&W class A locomotives on the generally down grade run between Williamson and Portsmouth. The use of these cars enabled the N&W to bypass two water loading points where the start would have been made on an upgrade, thus enabling the N&W to run substantially heavier trains. 

I want mine in case I "get stupid" and follow Bryan Smith's lead and build a UP Big Blow GTEL. It can be bashed back to its original configuration.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Any idea if the tenders that are being produced will have all the "Goodies" they showed on the video. After my running the Challenger

this past Sat ,having the extra water will sure help. I had to add water often, did use more than I shud have because of not conttrolling water with by-pass,but will help in not running out if we get distracted by bystanders.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

David

So, you would eliminate all but water towers (and your teapot): auxiliary tenders/canteens,water cranes, condensing tenders, track pans, etc. if you were the CEO of gauge one just to ensure a good cup of tea!


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

For those of you who are interested in the tenders, the testing equipment and lighting will be made available later at

what Aster says will be reasonable cost. We shall see.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 22 Apr 2013 10:08 AM 
David

So, you would eliminate all but water towers (and your teapot): auxiliary tenders/canteens,water cranes, condensing tenders, track pans, etc. if you were the CEO of gauge one just to ensure a good cup of tea! 

Now condensing tenders sound interesting!!
A South African class 25 with that great long tender behind in 1/24 scale. (Not that I am into narrow gauge)
I wonder if you could actually make the steam condense successfully in Gauge 1. I don't see why not. 
To tell the truth, I am not a tea drinker at all.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Thought all Brits drank tea.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

May be an obvious question for the experts, but with a condensing locomotive how do you achieve enough draft to keep the fires going? 

Robert


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Robert, 
I believe that they had built in steam driven blower fans to create the draught. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Robert 

David is correct. The SAR [and other] condensing locomotives had a drafting fan in the stack [chimney] of the locomotive. This proved to be the "Achilles heel" of the design. It cost more over time to maintain the fan blades that were sucking fly ash through them than the savings in hauling an auxiliary water car behind the tender. This is the same problem that doomed the UP experimental coal turbine #80 [later #8080]. The fly ash destroyed the turbine 'buckets" and the unit was out of service far more than in revenue [or even testing} service.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Haha


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

on some of the (then old) US Navy ships I worked on the boiler was "pressure fired" in that the draft was forced in ahead of the fire. it was just air being pumped. that would have protected the fan blades. of course these boilers seemed to have their own maintenance issues. I think that the water tubes were abraded by heat and chemistry so didn't last that well. the Navy went to Gas Turbines for their destroyer fleets. Mind you I was working on the Sonar systems not the propulsion plant.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Phippsburg Eric on 24 Apr 2013 06:37 AM 
on some of the (then old) US Navy ships I worked on the boiler was "pressure fired" in that the draft was forced in ahead of the fire. it was just air being pumped. that would have protected the fan blades. of course these boilers seemed to have their own maintenance issues. I think that the water tubes were abraded by heat and chemistry so didn't last that well. the Navy went to Gas Turbines for their destroyer fleets. Mind you I was working on the Sonar systems not the propulsion plant. 

Now that's funny, another sonar tech that knows about P-fired boilers. Was that a Knox can with a 26CX? Or an Adams with a 23 pair? I finished up as a 0417 acoustic analyst, but I liked working on the gear better (like the Louis Allis Power Supply (LAPS)!)

When I first heard about the boilers on my first ship, I thought they were calling them "four strapped" not the actual term.... forced draft!


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

I forgot ?


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

My first jobs were on the USS Patterson, a reserve ship in Philadelphia---FF-1052 class can't recall the bow number. I liked the sound of those guys in a sea way, you could hear the turbines working! 

She had the old AN/SQS 26CX. I knew my way around the system a little in those days, can't recall much of it now. we did work with the passive sonar trace (unit 31?) quite a bit and self noise tests with the SQM-5 and calibrations with a transducer hung from the sonar boom. the electro-mechanical syncro-resolvers which kept the sonar beams pointed as the ship rolled and turned always fascinated me!

I was not a sailor...I worked as an engineer for the US Navy's sonar research lab in New London CT "NUSC" and got aboard a number of different ships though never the Adams class which were earlier than my time though still in commission.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

I spent many a watch listening to SQS26 sonar, while they tried to find us. I was a submarine sonar operator, still working in sonar 33 years later. Been to NUSC New London in my travels. 

Steve


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