# Finally doing track!



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi,

This is sort of a sequel to the thread "Finally doing roadbed" that you folks have helped me so much on. I've not done this before, so please bear with me through all the dumb questions!

I laid out some product, just to see where things were.










I got tooled up to make my first joint, but then ran into a little snag. The Train-Li switches, on one side of each leg, have this little plastic tab that is in the way of their clamps. (I've emailed Axel, but it's a Sunday, and I was hoping one of you is on line and has the answer now). (And yes, I've been called impatient a time or two, ha ha!).











For those of you who've used these switches, does one cut the tabs off, and hope the one or two remaining screws hold the corresponding rail? If so, I've got my razor saw in my hand... Or, is there a special joiner product intended here?

Anyway, I might have to pack it all up for next week. But it was huge fun just to lay the stuff out, and for the first time really visualize the track! 

Thanks for any input,

===Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, cut it off... or you could trim it back some on each side and try to get the clamp on. 

I don't think the rail will move around too much more with the tab off. 

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Bay-amm! You're so quick, Greg! Thanks so much, I'm on it like a big dog!

===Cliff

PS, during that, what, 5-minute "wait" for the answer, I um... well, I read the gosh-darn instructions again, and, hmm, ah, they did mention cutting the tab off... Ran to the basement to get on the 'puter to edit my post, but too slow, ha ha! Thanks again Greg.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ted Doskaris has done several "vignettes" including some for the train-li switches... you might check my site: 


*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...3/train-li* 



That's the main Train-Li section on my site under track and switches.


Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Yes 

indeed, great articles! Thanks for the reminder, Greg. 

Just after my response to yours, I got some stuff laid down, and learned a few things. Here's a shot showing my first curve and cut section, woo-hoo!












For rail cutting, I purchased a Dremel wanna-be for the purpose, and it's not looking good: bearings are bad, and disks are flying apart at first kiss. What do you use? 

I like the Train Li bender: you just keep tightening it and rolling it back and forth. Once you release it, the track does spring back to whatever state it wants. No fault of the bender; but you do have to over-curve the rail, in order for it to relax (once bender is removed) to the desired radius. Kinda indeterminate, but at least it's easy enough to make adjustments, and very easy to use. 

As an aside, for those interested in the concrete ribbon approach, I had so good success in smoothing things down and chamfering the edges with what might be called a "rub block":










I learned this morning though that these things wear out. I wore this one after about an hour -- though it did a great job in the process. This block was from Lowes, and cost ~$13. Also, I ran across some concrete form transitions where I'll need something more serious; the block wouldn't cut it. So I bought a masonry grinder disk for my right-angle grinder, and will see how that works next weekend.

Best regards,
====Cliff


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

WOW that sure is impressive, glad to see your got some track down. 

JJ


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Cliff, 

PLEASE, don't forget to leave room for expansion. The track will grow/shrink with changes in temperature, and depending where you are and the total range of temperature the dimensional change could be significant. 

Bob C.


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

I bent over 300 ft of slip on tie SS rail this past summer... I own 8 TrainLine 45 R7 switches too. I have both the Train-Li & Aristo dual benders..... 

Before bending rail you must cut every 2nd out board rail tie strap on the bottom side in the curved Track location. 

Also when rail bending, One end of the rail must be FREE (unattached).... or the bent rail will spring to an unintended shape !!!! 

And yes on the R7 switches..... Razor saw the underside plastic & remove the ONE screw... Then apply the clamps.... 

I try to cut curved area under ties & ruff bend the dual rail track on a sheet of plywood with prescribed approx radius....... 

And for the Track benders, I use the 10mm socket for incremental rough bending & the vernier knob to set the Final track shape.....


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

An Exacto knife with a NEW BLADE used in a rocking motion should get the job done and will give a much cleaner cut.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

the switch comes that way from the factory???all of them??


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, not good having the plastic right up to the end of the rail. 

I use a real dremel, one of the new Li-ion ones, I prefer the 8000 model, more oomph, larger and higher voltage battery. 

The real key to cutting rail is to get the cutting disk perpendicular to the rail end. The old carbide cutoff wheels that were only about 1 inch in diameter broke easily and were a bit too small to get the tool close enough to the rail... get the new EX-LOCK quick change mandrel and the cutoff disks which are much larger in diameter.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I like to plug my Dremel into the wall. That is the best one ever made. 

I have gone to using the Easy Lock disks. I buy them by the bunch. Can never have too many on hand.

I like them for cutting rail and such. 

I highly recommend them 

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

By the way, the cutoff disks now come in 2 flavors, metal cutting (shown above, says "METAL") and plastic cutting. Get some of each, the plastic ones do a better job of cutting vs. melting. 

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thank you, gentllemen, for all great points and ideas! 

Thanks Greg & John for that cutter disk tip -- definitely appears the vastly superior product to what I tried yesterday. Also, I love the idea of not messing with that tiny screw to hold the disk on! 

Related to that, I was so into what I was doing, and not anticipating the thin disks blowing up, that I wasn't using safety goggles. HUGELY stupid. I am very, very fortunate to be addressing you folks with binocular vision still. Just passing that on.

As for the rail expansion, Polaris, I'm using the semi-floating method of Tapcon's and wire (per Marty and John). With no really long straights, the plan is just to see how it goes and -- if needed -- cut in and add the Train Li expansion joints (or some similar product). Question, you mentioned cutting every other tie spacer on curves; could you explain that more? Thanks for your additional points as well. 

====Cliff


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Cliff........... 
If you buy an Aristo SS individual curved SS 12.5 ft Dia curve track..... 

You can see every other outside plastic "longitudinal" tie spacer cut on outside rail, bottom side.... 

I did not do this ( A cutting omision MISTAKE) on the Train LI plastic PVC side on tie curves. Then track only curves at the 12" slide on tie joint... No good!! 

For SS aristo flex track.... You must cut the Tie spacers every 2nd tie for a nice smooth un restrained curve !!!!!!!!! 

Dennis M from GBay, WI 

PS: They cut comments intended for the dual under rail plastic strips.... Not for the centerline single plastic strip !!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Got it Dennis, thanks for the pointers!


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Greg, 

How does that Dremel work for you. I got one and am about to go back to my plugged in one. I dont think I'm putting too much pressure on the tool then the safety shut off kicks in. It is incredibly annoying to be in the middle of cutting something and that danged safety shut off kicks in and you have to shut the dremel off and then turn it back on. I have used a Dremel for years and I have never burned any up for too much pressure, it seems to me that the safety thing is too sensitive. 

Cliff, 
I'm glad your getting it done. The key is to get trains running. I would still encourage you to put a temporary loop attached to where you stopped you concrete so you can run trains. I'd just use dirt and free float it. Its not like your going to be using it more than a year or so. 

As for cutting the rail, I suppose many of you are going to kringe but I just used a hack-saw and clean the end up with my angle grinder. Was twice as fast as the dremel was taking.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hey Jake, 

You're right, getting a train running is the objective now, by hook or crook. Might be just a back-and-forth for now, but I'm determined. Thanks for that encouragement, and we'll see how far I can get this season,

===Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The system is sensitive to overload on the motor, and is VERY sensitive when the battery is low. Get a second battery and keep it full, when the unit acts up, it is time to charge the battery. 

Your batteries will last longer if not so deeply discharged. 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Ok, I'll try that Greg.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Here is what I use to cut my rail, a 4 1/2 high speed angle grinder,
throw on a stainless cutting wheel and its like a hot knife through butter.

 

I have only used 1 wheel in the 700 feet of track I laid so far,
Ron


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hey friends,

Well, after a rainy last weekend, I'm very excited over some progress this weekend, so here goes with the gushing and questions. But first, a few pics.




























First, I'd like to talk about the bending. The Train Li bender works great: I just kept tightening and massaging the track, taking the bender off and then putting it back on as needed, until the track lined up with the ribbon. It's been very instructive to actually work with the stuff. The rail is very springy. And though I think the (Tapcon) anchors will easily nudge it to one side or the other, I wanted the bending to perform all the curvature required. 

I'll try to put it a different way. The track in the pics is completely un-anchored, but it doesn't "perfectly" line up to where I want it. But since it's all so flexible, I'm going to count on the anchoring to make final adjustments.

For joints within curves, I found there to be two solutions. Not that I'm saying anything new, just that I proved them out for myself. When continuing the curvature of a switch, I had to bend the rail as best I could and then cut off the tangent. For track-only splices, when the joints were lined up, I found that the bender just banged over when it rolled across them, producing a very uneven curve. However, when I staggered the joints a few ties, the non-jointed rail gave the bender a lot of stability, and the overall joint was much smoother.

Second, about that concrete. My skills in that regard suck, so I had to smooth things out with that "brick" I posted on earlier. My contractor friend, who's poured a bagillion yards of concrete over the decades, advised me to use as little water as possible. However, in stretches where I decided to add more (and flow it better), the surface is way smoother, and didn't need much smoothing at all. The less-water sections are much rougher. You can tell I still don't know beans about concrete (but thanks Jake, John and Marty for all your help to this point!).

Also, the imperfections in ribbon forming, vs. the track, really shows up now. I should have added more stakes here and there, especially where I ended a pour (and sorta got careless). However, I'm not sure that I really care; it seems close enough, and future fill and ballast should take care of that.

Third, the rail itself. All along, I'd thought this rail Train Line rail was nickle-plated brass. But it isn't: every cut I made, no brass coloration in the underlying material. I couldn't see any evidence of plating at all. For me, this is good news: nothing to wear out. But now I wonder what the alloy is: nickle-brass? The answer might be instructive, since I had very little success in soldering to the switch rails (ref. Axel's advice prior, in making internal switch rail electrical connections more permanent). Axel, how do you solder to this stuff? Maybe I need to upgrade my soldering equipment. I'm using an old Weller gun. 

Fourth, about cutting. Wow, those Dremel Easy-Cut disks are the ticket! Except for the one I sat on, I'm still on my first one! Also, my discount rotary tool came with a flex shaft. And once I got that hooked up, it was great: was able to hold the cutting axis close to the rail, and with almost no weight to contend with.

Fifth: this has been great fun! I'm looking forward to anchoring it all, putting some (DCC) juice to it, and making a first run!

Thanks everyone for all your help in this adventure,

===Cliff


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Just think about how much water the pump trucks have in it. Its only roadbed, not a driveway.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi Marty!

Always an honor to interact with you Sir.

But what the **** are you talking about???

Feel free to educate me.

===Cliff


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Sorry Marty ...I should have added a couple smilies to my last post.... ;-)

Also, I'm embarrased to admit that I haven't seen concrete being poured in about 30 years...

But if what you're saying is that it needs to at least be able to slide down a chute, well, I think some of my batches would have had a hard time doing that. And those are where the surfaces seem especially rough.

Thanks Marty,
===Cliff


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What Marty is talking about ( I think) is the trucks that have the long booms and pipes on them for pumping concrete to places when the truck can't get right next to the forms.

When I pour my concrete some times it is real dray and some times real soupy. The soupy stuff comes when the cement sticks to the back of the mixer in clumps coating the mixer. I try to blast them loose with a hose and the mix gets soupy. 

If it seems rough.... While it is still wet tap the sides of the forms with a hammer and the stones will sink and pure concrete will come to the top. Dip your trowel, or what ever you are using to smooth the surface in water before you smooth That will also help make the top smoother. 

I also have gone back to some of my more ugly patches with Concrete patch or Anchor cement , comes in Yellow buckets, and filled in and smoothed out sections. 

What you have done so far looks great.

If you have to fudge the bending a little bit the way I anchor is great for holding track in place. 


JJ


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi John, thanks for those insights. And yes, I've been (per your advice in the past) dipping my trowell (actually, a piece of wood seemed to work better) in a bucket of water. That helped tons.

In the future though, I'm going to go for more soupy mixes. But what's the downside of too much water? Does it make the 'crete more brittle, or...?

I was wondering about a top coat, and you've just answered it, so thanks!

Also John, I think I'm anchoring the track the same as you and Marty advise, that is, the wire bale around a Tapcon screw, to let things float. I haven't done that anchoring yet, but will do so next.

Thanks for the encouragement!

===Cliff

PS, Marty, I hope you're not ticked with me for my "WTH" remark prior... it was meant as a joke, just like my other email to my boss at that same time was meant as a joke, but... well, in both cases, let's just say I could have phrased things differently!


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Adding water to your mix should not effect you too much. There are some issues to adding too much water to concrete, but you are not putting near the weight on the concrete to be an issue. Dont get too soupy or you will have a little harder time keeping the concrete in your forms. I would keep it soupy enough so you can work it easily, pound the sides of the form a little (like JJ said) and then sprinkle or dip the trowel in water to smooth the top. 

As far as the track lining up. I'd have to say looking at your pics that I cant find any kinks or anything. I think it looks great. Keep in mind as nature takes its toll, the track wont line up perfectly for long. Its going to move. I wouldn't sweat it too much.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the tips on the concrete, Marty, John and Jake. I'll not be so worried about adding a bit more water now.

Well, I actually got by first train running today! Just point-to-point, on simple rail power, but the sucka worked -- and no derailments! Very exciting so see!

I ran into something though. I was going to use the Tapcon+wire floating hold-down approach (per JJ & Marty, I believe), but when I tried to crank down (even a little) on the screw (once it was mostly inserted into the concrete), the 'crete broke up.

So, since I'm expecting to pull switches up for maintenance (etc), I'm thinking of going JJ's route, in using the plastic inserts. Any comments?

The second thing is that I'd been expecting pour mini-pedestals for the switch machines, after the switches were finally located. Here's an example:











I was going to clamp a small form to the ribbon and pour. But seeing it now, I'm thinking about digging a little hole, cutting a small grey paver in half, bonding (with mortar?) and clamping to the ribbon, and filling beneath the paver with mortar.

Any ideas or opinions in this regard?

Final question, anyone have a response to what I said re. the Train Li rail material earlier? Just curious. 

Thanks hugely, I owe all you guys a beer or two,

===Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I would let the switch machines float in the air, you do not want to have any upwards or downwards pressure on them. 

I forgot, whose switch machines are you using? 

Greg 

Oh: your comment on when cutting the train-li not seeing the brass inside? wow, there's something funny there... are you sure? This is a question for Axel, we were always told it was nickel plated brass.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Cliffy, you should support your turnout motors. Otherwise, over time they will "lean" toward the low side and the pin on the throw bar can come out of the loop that pushes the points. Also, the improved geometry will aid in throwing the turnout, especially in the future when you encounter friction from this, that, or the other thing. 

Regarding your screw pulling up the concrete, it could be that you hadn't let is set long enough. I find that the stuff always needs longer to get really hard than you think it should, even when just pulling off the forms.


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

I agree with Todd, you should support the switch motors, mine float and I have had a few that the support 
was wash out from under them and I had problems until I got them supported again. I ended up putting bricks 
under them to keep the switch and motor level. 

Ken owner of K&K the road to nowhere


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd is right, I forgot the sag over time. 

I don't have that problem with air motors, since the connection between the motor and the throwbar is flexible, so if the "long ties" sag a bit, nothing goes wrong. My aristo ties have not sagged in 9 years. 

But the connection between your switch motor and the throwbar might not be as flexible and independent as mine. Or your train-li switches might sag more than my Aristo ones. 

Better to be safe than sorry. 

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks John, Greg, Todd and Ken.

I appreciate all your insights as to why the switch "machine" (for now, this is a manual one from Train Li) be supported. I'll add to these reasons one more, being the thing I was most concerned about: that I, often a klutz, would step on the $10 item, and (due to mechanical advantage) completely hose the switch costing ten times that!

Now, to method. I picked up some $.41 grey concrete bricks, some of that surfacing concrete I believe JJ was suggesting for my rough-area issues, and a masonry blade for the skil saw. When I get to it, I hope to score / chop the brick in half, bond it to the ribbon (w/ said 'crete), and fill beneath and around the brick with regular concrete (for more support, just in case; I've no idea how the surface concrete will bond the brick to the ribbon). Sound like a plan?

I didn't get much done today, except for anchoring the track. Following John's advice, I used plastic anchors and screws, and wire. Seemed to work great! 

Now, John, here come the finer point questions. If you will permit me, here is your (famous!) picture of how you anchor your track, vs. how I just did mine:



















I wanted to put these side-by-side, and think out loud in front of you, God, and everybody. 

So, several things are clear now. First, I should have printed your pic, instead of just trying to go from memory when I went to Home Depot today.









Second, it seems that what I thought was a bluish washer in your pic is actually the plastic anchor (I've since bagged the washers). Third, that you are driving the screw all the way down. Fourth, that you are using a smaller screw than I remembered (#8?). Fifth, that you wisely extend the wire completely over the tie, and back to the concrete, granting better surface contact and -- most importantly -- precluding the opportunity for someone slicing their finger on an exposed sharp end of wire.

OK, well, I think I've answered all my own questions John, ha ha! 

I think I should re-do my tie-down wires. No big deal though to do that, I haven't gotten far.

I'll offer up one idea though, so here qoes. I used a larger gauge wire than the stuff I had on hand for rebar tying. The wire acts like a spring. Adjustment of the screw therefore is a "dialing in" of contact pressure between ties and wire, which may end up being helpful when all the horror stories







of rail expansion hit home, next spring / summer. However, I'm not sure if the screw will stay in a guaranteed position, being not driven home against the plastic anchor. If not, things will need to be tightened up over time, and maybe the anchors will require replacement.

Which reminds me, John, have you noticed any brittleness in any of your plastic anchors, over time? 

Final question, John, how often to you place your anchors? I was trending today at about 4 feet. Also, I was trying to place them more on the straights, and only on longer curves employed one or two, in anticipation of rail expansion. In other words, I've been trying to give the rails a place to expand to (in the curves). 

Thanks everyone,

===Cliff


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Like stated cut it off won''t hurt anything the plastic ties will hold it on....what else would you do? Anyway you will be using cement screws to hold the track down.

The grinder wheel will work great..but will take some elbow grease! IF the transitions are too great you can always build up, placing boards back down and using masonary to smooth things out..works for my conctete! 

Bubba


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have lengthened the wire so that it can cross over the two ties on each side of the screw.

I place the anchors aprox every three to 4 feet. 

Curves? I put them in the middle but not real tight to allow of movement. 



I also use the anchors for where the bend of the curve is not perfect and the track has a tenancy to wander.

All my switch areas are wide enough to include the switch motor for support.

I do not leave them with out support in the hot desert sun. 



JJ


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Excellent John, thanks once more!

And thanks to all of everyone's wonderful advice, both here and in so many other threads (2.5 years to this point!), I've yet to witness a derailment in various exercises. Can't believe it, I was dreading that things would be falling all over the place!

===Cliff

PS, John, I've read and re-read your posts on how you do your concrete, but I still can't see how you got it so perfect with the track -- referring to that picture of your tie-down. You even "broke" the edges nicely. Either you are a master-concreter, selected the pic wisely, or you're good with Photoshop, ha ha! I suspect the first answer though.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If you look closely you can see that section of track still has the steel forms in place. It was a experimental section when I first started Concrete Road Bed years ago. I have tried all kinds of forms from masonite, thin plywood, to Plastic edging for flower beds, to dirt berms, to steel. I use the steel because I can re use it. I have bent some steel forms for 20 ft curves. I used foot long nails as stakes They are a foot long and about about 1/4 to 3/8th thick. I got them at Home Depot. Wooden stakes in my rocky desert dirt do not pound in very well. With my re usable forms with the Bolts and plastic pipe spacers I do not have to use stakes any more. I use the nails once in a while when the imperfections of terrain make it difficult to level side to side. I lot of times I did not fill in low spots just added more concrete 

JJ


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I've used a rub block ($15 Lowes) a lot but wore it down on concrete b/c of the quartz/granite aggregates. It seems to work much better on mortar or brick or cement; anything without aggregates. I found the best way to level concrete is to take a skillsaw to it with a good concrete wheel. A series of parallel lines closely spaced will do the trick, then chisel out the ridges. The rub brick could smooth it or you could simply find a hard, jagged rock that's large but not too large to handle to smooth it. Goes way faster than rubbing if you have a large area to mill down. Just from my own experience. 

BTW, I love what you've done thus far


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the additional background, John. Nice one on the skillsaw SE18, and thanks for the encouragement!


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Minor change to what I just posted: by concrete wheel, should have said Diamond cutter. A normal wheel for mortar will disappear pretty quick. I also run a garden hose over the area being cut. Sorry. 

Dave V


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By SE18 on 18 Nov 2011 07:31 AM 
Minor change to what I just posted: by concrete wheel, should have said Diamond cutter. A normal wheel for mortar will disappear pretty quick. I also run a garden hose over the area being cut. Sorry. 

Dave V 





Been there.....Done that ..........Got the Tee shirt.









I made that mistake.

JJ


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Dave and John, great tip. I'll get the better blade. Fortunately, the main 'hump' I was worried about was more an optical illusion (due to undulation in the forms), and the track seemed to lay out smoothly enough. But there are definitly a couple other places where I'll need this technique. Thanks!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I got that loop done today, and had some good fun running a train on the whole thing. My 10-year-old daughter, Bethany, ran it a bit, and took a couple of videos, so it was a good day.










For now, I just ran rail power, with this simplest of temporary DPDT switching / wiring for the loop. Still, great fun!!! 

===Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice looking, some variation in the curves makes it look interesting and not just a boring constant curvature loop. 

Sure looks like you got the concrete laying down right! 

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hey, thanks Greg!


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Nov 2011 08:49 PM 
Nice looking, some variation in the curves makes it look interesting and not just a boring constant curvature loop. 

Greg 



And I was thinking "why did he put in the straight sections when it would have looked better to have it all a constant curvature loop" 
but it works fine either way..(I am curious about the reasoning behind it though..)
and I agree, the concrete roadbed looks great!  

something I might consider..

Scot


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Reasoning behind variations in curves; The 1:1 boys tend to follow the landscape as they must, but would rather have all tangents. So, to me, every tangent section I can add helps my mind to see it as realistic. That said, curves added to tangents also break up too perfect engineered track to one that compensates for reality. 

I am aware of this as I use sectional track which forces geometric standards so complex track works with a minimum of cut sections. Boy do I miss my free flowing track when I was handlaying On3 track. Easments or spirals really screw up sectional track symetry, too soon kinks at the joiners creep in..... 

So, to me, constant curves remind me of sectional track limitations rather than built to fit the landscape engineering. 
Happy Rails 
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi Scot,

Well, I confess that the reasoning wasn't to break up the curve, or to follow the terrain (though those are nice bennies!). The main reason is that an upper level loop has to go inside of that (just finished) one, along with the mine it serves. The survey rods defining the tangent points are visible in the last pic.

And thanks!
===Cliff


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi John!

So, here's a tangent. I agree with your "1:1 boys" statements. Modeling the V&T, and having studied its historical right-of-way maps, yes indeed they put in dead-straight sections between curves (as opposed to varying radius curve sequences). The straights helped with their surveying, because (as I understand) they needed that vector as the basis for the next curve's geometry. That is, "from this point, beginning with your last direction, go through an arc with such and such parameters." Lot easier if that beginning direction isn't itself ending on a curve. 

Completely irrelevant, but you brought it up, ha ha!

===Cliff


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Cliff, that has really turned out nice! I missed this thread in it's beginning, but I don't have much track laying advice to give. Not sure which way I lean about once constant curve verses having it with some straights. You might have been able to use a larger radius but the straights do break up the curve nicely. Glad you got some trains running so you can feel better about all your hard work.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Randy, I sure appreciate that! 

And at the risk of seeming a sloppy dope, I want to say something heartfelt. 

Thanks everyone for letting me crow a bit here: vane, obviously; and only baby steps. But a graduation of sorts, having gotten a train to finally run, after 2 1/2 years of prep. I'm sure glad I have you friends here on MLS, you guys have been helping me every painful step of the way. And you haven't minded all my long-winded freaking out over various issues, or my rants. Or having had too much beer before posting...! 

Seriously, you folks here have been my solid sounding board for years: track geometry, roadbed, control approach, concrete, wiring, DCC specifics, whatever. And lighting fast, in responsiveness. And now, thanks to you, things are actually panning out! 

So, thanks!! 
===Cliff


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By CliffyJ on 22 Nov 2011 03:15 PM 
Hi John!

So, here's a tangent. I agree with your "1:1 boys" statements. Modeling the V&T, and having studied its historical right-of-way maps, yes indeed they put in dead-straight sections between curves (as opposed to varying radius curve sequences). The straights helped with their surveying, because (as I understand) they needed that vector as the basis for the next curve's geometry. That is, "from this point, beginning with your last direction, go through an arc with such and such parameters." Lot easier if that beginning direction isn't itself ending on a curve. 

Completely irrelevant, but you brought it up, ha ha!

===Cliff

your thread, your name. It's all relevant... 

My side of the coin was about trains and how engines are most efficient on straight track.

I like your progress, it looks great.
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks John, another great point. 

I just figured out how to upload a video to YouTube. Nothing fancy, just from my cell phone. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm-ZxkrIQoY 

===Cliff


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I have to agree with Greg that the straights add far more character than a constant radius. Anytime that we can break up a _large_ constant radius or length of straight makes the layout more interesting. It is simple enough to add some rock and/or trees to give the radius reason and will make things even more interesting.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I made the mistake of a plain 20 diameter loop. It just don't look right. I am in the process of pondering changes to it. 

JJ


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Happy Thanksgiving, all!

Agree with all that's been said on mixing things up. I have a couple more return-loops to build though that, due to space, are going to need to be constant-radius. Here's the plan for the trackage shown earlier, with that inner / upper loop (only staked out, at this point) plotted:










The back half of this coming loop isn't prototypical, so it will be mostly hidden from the main viewing direction (from the bottom of this image, upward), going through a sort of mountain screen. On its "backstage side," the plan is to make a nice, high trestle. Also not prototypical, just for fun.

The front half of the same inner loop, with its switches, crossover, mill and mine, etc., are (mightily swished) representatives of the prototype.

Speaking of prototypes, in the "truth-can-be-stranger-than-fiction" department, here's a tracing of a practically unused loop-siding on the V&T, beside the Carson River, intended to serve the (never-completed) Yerington smelter:










When I first saw this funny, "too-perfect" loop, it reminded me of my first Bachmann set!

Have a great turkey-day,

===Cliff


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