# Gas burner issue



## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

If possible I want to keep this thread on "target"
Problem.....single gas burner in a single gas flue. The flame wants to stay lazily in the smoke box and not pull back to the burner. The question is...what is that telling me about the problem.......jet too big, jet too small, burner too long, too short. I am not interested in a fix....at this time....just really want to understand what this is a symptom of. If you are unsure as I am maybe, we all can find out whats going on.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I would wonder if there is insufficient oxygen in the flue to support combustion? 

Perhaps the mixture is too rich (too much fuel flowing), or the air inlet is too small or blocked?


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

What locomotive is this happening on? I have experienced this on several Accucraft UK locos. In my case it was caused by to much fuel(possibly some liquid) when cold. On my trains what has worked is to light it on a partial fill, let it get to temperature. Shut it off, top up and enjoy. 

Dave


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## Seawhisp (Feb 16, 2012)

Insufficent or excessive airflow at the back of the burner will prevent the flame from popping back into the firebox.


Seawhisp


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

lazy flame in the smokebox , indicates a partially blocked gas jet, the cause is low velocity of the gas exiting the jet , so not enough air entrainement which in turn results in the small /lazy flame when the mixture reaches open air ie: smokebox. 

Gordon.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

If indeed it is as Gordon says, it is easily fixed...just remove the jet and press your fuel filler against the jet side and give her a blast of gas! should clean it right out.


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

I too have experienced the same issue, caused by a partially blocked jet. The easy fix is to try addressing that first, then take things from there. Did you say which engine it was on?


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## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for your feedback and also keeping focused on the issue. 
I have tried over a dozen jets........3 work.........they are not stamped with an ID, but they go back to the C21 and K37 era.
Todays Ruby S jets don't work and todays # 5 jets don't work either.
The jets are clean and open.
I may open the 4 air holes that surround the jet. I made a ring that I can reduce the air flow if necessary.
Also I may block off (shorten) the length of the burner as a test.
I will do only one at a time.
Gordon.......is there a way to increase the velocity of the gas thru the jet ??? Maybe a warm water bath surrounding the gas tank in the tender ???


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

Hi Sal; give me a call some evening at 916-447-5433 and I'll do my best to help you out. If we're successful you can then inform the community.


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## Chris B (Oct 18, 2009)

Hi Sal - first a question - what is the temperature? In cold weather you need to use butane/propane mix, not butane. If using mix, it sounds like too much air to me. Put a finger over one of the air holes, or cover half with your air control ring. It should pop back OK then if all else is clear. Then use your nose to detect unburned gas and open up the ar until it burns without a smell. 
Cheers 
Chris


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## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

Hopefully I will be able to work on this tomorrow. Chris the temp is comfortable 55 to 70 degrees. I think the problem is not enough air to support combustion in the flue.
So the next step will be to reduce the length of the burner by covering the end of it with a piece of K&S tubing. I'll start with 3/4 to 1 inch and see if I can get the flame to pull back to the burner. Thanks all for your input.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Sal, 

How tight is the jet holder in the burner. I have run into problems where the jet is aimed down and pushed the gas mixture straight out of the burner slots causing the flame not to want to burn properly in the flue and if is does pop back it only burns at the tip. Also the jet tip should be in the center of the burner air holes. Id you pull the jet holder back you can sometimes get better results needing to shim the jet holder to hold the position.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Sal, seems you advised me years ago to put a sleeve on the end of the burner of my Aristo Mike, it really cut down on the smokebox fires. Lately I have been getting a whistling burner, will try replacing the jet. I converted mine over to Roundhouse and use #6 jets.


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## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

Yesterday I opened the air hole around the jet with little effect. Nent I shortened the burner length by sliding sone K&S tubing over the end of the burner. Doing that it did allow the gas to pull back to the burner. The flame was ragged and unstable but it did pull back. Now trying to decide if the origonal condition is a gas or air issue.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SalM on 22 Mar 2013 07:32 AM 
Yesterday I opened the air hole around the jet with little effect. Nent I shortened the burner length by sliding sone K&S tubing over the end of the burner. Doing that it did allow the gas to pull back to the burner. The flame was ragged and unstable but it did pull back. Now trying to decide if the origonal condition is a gas or air issue.

Sal

Could be both along with gas pressure and/or air. I am wondering why you have not retrofitted with the sleeve?
Air flow, liquid, low pressure, bad jet,proper temp around gas tank....glad most locos we run are alcohol/coal fired (bonus fuel is cheaper)!

From the Master Steamer: Kevin(Two Blocked on MLS)...especially for those newbie who do not know of his wisdom and years of experience:

Radiant Poker Burners


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## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles.........the opening in the backhead wont allow clearance for the burner and the SS screen.....but it is enough for the K&S tubing. The 3 jets that I have that work really work well but have no ID on them. The other jets including the new #5's and the ruby jets all fail. Since I do have a running engine my real purpose is to understand the lazy fire in the smoke box syndrome. Tenting and radiant burner mods enhance a working burner but as I understand it is not a fix to a failing burner. However if it is a fix to a bad burner what is it fixing ...too much air/gas or too little air/gas.
By shortning the burner with the tubing I may be able to get a good , stable fire but it also could be to small to boil water for steaming the engine. Yes right now alcohol looks inviting.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Sal

We have used a mash "sleeve" and not the "tent" on burners. That seems to work well on burners that do not allow space for the original format. I will have to look up what the material was from McMaster-Carr.


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## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

Two Blocked....please check the #........it's always busy..................TKS Sal


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

Apologies. I do have a wall phone mounted on the right side of my in-house desk whose cord is sometimes confused with a cat's toy, but I think that the problem is that I have a well used instrument. This is a tardy response because I do not "guard" mls.com, and a steamup buddy of mine called this morning with an "Oh by the way ..........." that clued me in to the disconnect. The phone # is still (916) 447-5433 and I'm home till 7:00 pm [PCDST] as well as tomorrow from 10:00 am onward. I am overhauling the Unit Shop test track and so might not hear the phone, but I promise I will monitor the answering machine and return your call ASAP. If they ever perfect a steam powered cell I might put it on my purchase wish list, but for now it's a landline operation. I do look forward to connecting with you and trying to solve your particular problem.
ko-5


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