# RANT: Manufactures of "G" scale Trains



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

I've been looking all week for "G" scale locos in the "CP Rail" roadname & colors.

Here's what I found:

Aristocraft GP40s & Dash 9's: No longer available anywhere that I can find.

USAT GP-38s: Not available ar Charles Ro.., or anywhere I can find.

I endended up getting an EMD SD-70 from Ro and then found out that the Phoenix Sound install costs $20 more to a toltal of $50 and will take 2 weeks cause they have to ship the loco to get it installed. ....Sheesh, I'd learn how to install those for $20 !!!

OK.. to be short, CP Rail is one of my primary road names. It's one of the last 5 "Class 1-s" runnin' in America.

I gotta' feel that the importers & manufactures here in the US just don't give a S*** about what folks in the hobby are running. They're all "top-down" businesses and don't care about what the consumer wants or truly needs.

We oughta' get a bunch of us together, buck up, and invite the Chineese manufactures to produce models for the true demand !

I'm just on a Rant !

What's your feelings on this lack of communication with the consumer??

.... Maybe they run a "focus" group or something ??


Sheesh !

Perry


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Oh,,,, By the way..

I'm told that... Charles Ro only has 2 SD-70s left in CP Rail colors now that I've got mine ordered.

Get' em' while there available.....................................................

Perry


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Only $20 for installation charge? That's cheap to have someone open the loco, wire it up and close it, and be responsible for it to work. 

Greg


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Nope Greg... It's $50 for the installl now.. In the price list and in the past it's always cost $30. I didn't get no COLA in my social security this year. Even food is up more then 20%... so im bitchin' !!!

Peace friend.
Perry


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh, I see, you meant it used to be $30, increased by $20 and now it's $50... $30 was very reasonable... $50, well, if it's just tying the phoenix to the track pickups and putting in the speaker, then it could not take more than 1/2 hour. Yep, $100/hour is expensive. 

But, for people who cannot do it themselves, it must be worth it to someone. 

Yeah, time to learn how to do it yourself... many people have done so on the forum.... 

Greg


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Ya' really Greg...

I can do it myself but (LOL) ... just love it when someone else is responsible. What's really P***ing me off here is that the manufactures don't take the effort to find out what products the retail costomers want?? You'd think with all the IT and web infrastructure they could get a nice advance on what the costomer wants in 2011 ?

ya' know what I mean?

Perry


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By railcandy on 04 Apr 2011 02:07 PM 
Ya' really Greg...

I can do it myself but (LOL) ... just love it when someone else is responsible. What's really P***ing me off here is that the manufactures don't take the effort to find out what products the retail costomers want?? You'd think with all the IT and web infrastructure they could get a nice advance on what the costomer wants in 2011 ?

ya' know what I mean?

Perry

Have you thought about picking up the phone

and calling some Dealers. Most of the time online


inventorys not correct on a lot of Web sites.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By railcandy on 04 Apr 2011 12:51 PM 
I gotta' feel that the importers & manufactures here in the US just don't give a S*** about what folks in the hobby are running. They're all "top-down" businesses and don't care about what the consumer wants or truly needs.

What's your feelings on this lack of communication with the consumer??

Perry



I think the answer is basic and simple. You said it when you said "They're all "top-down" businesses and don't care about what the consumer wants or truly needs."

As businessmen they care a great deal but less about what the consumers wants or needs and a lot more about how many consumers are willing to buy something and how much they are willing to pay for it.

The way I look at it, they are investing their own money and if we do not buy what they offer in sufficient quantities at a price that is profitable to them they will join the ranks of LGB, Delton, Kalamazoo and many others who have gone into bankruptcy.

I have seen many products cataloged but never produced because the manufacturer decided there was insufficient demand to justify the investment (risk) in making it.

As far as I am concerned I let them decide what they want to make and at what price to offer it to me and then I decide if I am willing and able to pay what the product costs. On the other hand I have a big advantage in that while I might have several favorite railroads to model I don't have any "must have" railroads so I just buy what I get the best deals on.

Jerry


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Perry:

My guess is that CP is very popular along and north of the Border, but as you go south where most the large scale market is located, those who model it become fewer and fewer. 


Why don't you start a poll in the Poll Forum asking members to list their 3 favorite railroads in descending order: 1, most favorite, 2, second most favorite, and 3, third most favorite. You could assign 3 points to #1, 2 points to #2 and 1 point to #3. After a week or so tabulate the results and see where "CP" stands.

My listing would be as follows:

1, B&O

2, D&RGW (narrow and standard)

3, Boston & Maine or Santa Fe. I'd have to do some soul searching on this one.


Chuck


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I personally Know that many do care. 
But I also know that it takes a great number of buyers to make it worth one road colors and amount of different number locos. 

My bottom line ,foundational learned belief in this hobby for me is: 
"You have to make the hobby the way you want it with whats avaliable." 
If I want something bad enough I will become willing to pay the price to make it, buy it , what ever. 
Then I'm happy. 
Once you get past sticker shock.


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Yup Jerry:

Nothing wrong with them deciding what they want to produce... I just wish they'd use the current technology better to learn what the end consumer wants. We all plan on what we will be purchasing well in the future.., If you're anything like me ..? you probably know what you'll be getting for your layout 2 or 3 years down the road. I'm not rich, but my G scale purchasing plans are solid into 2014..., If I live that long,

I'm still in the market for 2 Canadian Pacific GP-38s, but I had to get a SD-70 instead and was told to wait a year for the 38s to become available.. maybe.

I'm still looking for 2 Dash 9's as well.

I just feel it's a shame they spent all that money on color catalogs, web pages.. & printing up their price lists with the items, and let stock on an item fall to zero.

The SD-70 was in my plans for next spring (2012).. Glad I got it now cause they only have 2 units left at USA Trains.

Hey... on the plus side I was able to get all the track maintainance stuff I needed today..

But in the end.. I had been planning on running those 2 GP-38s this summer, I've dreamed about those locos for 2 years now.

and I did check the multipal rail hobby retailers I've delt with in the past: T&k PA., WhistleStop OH, Trainworld NYC, etc.

Maybe they should post a bulliten when they're down to their last 10 units or something ???


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Good Idea Chuck... 

I'll bet you know every B&O item in every catalog.. But when you order.. are you able to get those ?


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Truth. I figured out a long time ago that begging the manufacturers to make something doesn't work. You can give them exceptional reasons for making a particular type of locomotive, let's use a narrow gauge consolidation, oh......say a C-19 lettered for the D&RGW. Not everybody likes the D&RGW but it was a railroad that had a long history of narrow gauge trains. That I would want to model this makes sense to me but does it make practical financial success to those executives in Chin...er _Philadelphia? _Not by itself! If you add in the fact that the C-19 2-8-0 or an engine just like it ran under many different railroad names! The 2-8-0 was a workhorse for many ng railroads so there would be opportunities for many different lettered roads! The C-19 in 1:20.3 is demonstrably larger than the Delton C-16 in 1:24! In fact, the only other 2-8-0 is the Connie and _that_ is the problem! To a corporate bean counter it must look like they would be competing with themselves! Why introduce another 2-8-0 (never mind that this one never had a proper 3' prototype, that it wasn't even a North American locomotive, it has Baker/Pilliod valve gearing rather than the much more common Walchaerts or more common still Stephenson valve gearing and it is outside frame vs the C-19's inside frame! It's another 2-8-0 so it's a competitor for sales and that means no go! 

Don't even get me started on passenger cars! AMS finally cam out with a 1:20.3 coach and they sold like hotcakes even at the strtospherically high prices they were asking for! The thing is if we wanted a combine, RPO, baggage, observation or parlour car we were out of luck _unless we were willing to do something about it ourselves! _This is what the early pioneers in LS faced before the advent of OTB RTR pre-packaged, pasteurized and homogenized everything! In some ways we've come full circle and I'm not sure that's such a bad thing.


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Hay Marty..

Just let me RANT on this one for awhile.. LOL I've been taking returnables back for the deposit for 2 years to be able to order those 2 GP-38s.. Just think of how much damn beer I had to drink to be able to order those today?

Ha ha ha









Perry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By railcandy on 04 Apr 2011 03:23 PM 
Yup Jerry:

If you're anything like me ..? you probably know what you'll be getting for your layout 2 or 3 years down the road. I'm not rich, but my G scale purchasing plans are solid into 2014..., If I live that long,


Hi Perry,

First I want to say that I love your:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/railcandy/railcandy/index.html

I often refer to my layout as the Plastic, Plywood and Carpet Railway.

For me the key words in what you said were "If I live that long"

I used to have what I called my "10 year plan." There was never an end date - I just sort of planned things that I would do over the next 10 years from whatever date it happened to be.

Now I am 67 years old. I am retired, diabetic with a bad back, high blood pressure etc. so I no longer have a 10 year plan. I don't even have a plan for next year. 

My favorite railroads are the Missouri and North Arkansas and White River Railways (both long gone) and more recently MoPac, D&RGW, UP, C&NW, Cotton Belt and CTA. In other words first I find something at a great price, buy it (if I can afford it) and then it joins my list of favorite railroads.

I decided many years ago that I could never afford to build what I wanted if I tried to do it with the locomotives and trains I really wanted so I adjusted my wants and desires to sales, closeouts and used trains. Occasionally I found trains that I really wanted at prices I could afford but in the meantime I discovered that I had come to really like those trains that I initially bought based on price alone.

This IS an expensive hobby but it is possible for us to build layouts we enjoy once we balance our budgets and desires with what happens to be available - or like Marty find ways to make whatever we want ourselves.

I agree with Marty. I believe the manufacturers really do care (all of them). I believe there are many more profitable ways they could be making as much or more profit without having to live with the never ending discussions about their products, quality control, service departments etc. I suspect they often ask themselves why they don't drop toy trains and start making toasters or coffee makers.

I was a salesman for most of my business life but I learned very early in my career that I NEVER wanted to sell ANYTHING to anyone who was spending their own money. Instead I sold products to commercial, industrial and utility customers. If I had to make a list of jobs I would never want, near the top of that list would be selling hobby products to consumers and if I ever had money to invest I would avoid anything to do with discretionary income as it is always the first to crash when the economy dips.

Good luck with what you are looking for.

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 04 Apr 2011 03:02 PM 
Perry:

My listing would be as follows:

1, B&O

Chuck 



Hi Chuck,

It seems that over the years I ended up with a lot of B&O just because it was on sale or closeout. That is one railroad you should have very little trouble finding just about anything in.

Lately I've been "converting" B&O stuff to MoPac because the colors are somewhat similar.

Jerry


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Contact Tony at Ultimate Trains in Nanton, Alberta, and also call Bob at Art Knapps in Surrey--they should be able to help you out with CP. 

Keith


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Perry:

I've been in the hobby since about 1980 and I learned a long time ago to get what I would like when it comes out. Sometimes I waited and lost out. Yes, I have some B&O rolling stock and engines, but I don't by any means have everything that came out or that I would like have. The problem comes with those just entering the hobby who see items made several years ago. Many times the manufacturer has just one run of a specific engine for a specific railroad.


I have bought locomotives and cars that I repainted and decaled to something I wanted and couldn't find. I'm sure Stan Cedarleaf can make any style of "CP" lettering and logos that you could wish. I have used his talents several times and have been extremely pleased with the results. Del Tappiro also a sponsor here on MLS makes vinyl transfers. I have not used his products, but I have heard good things about them.


Chuck


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Hey Keith.. I've tried the Canada dealers in the past but I have a hard time with the shipping in from Canada. Art Knapp has the USAT S4 switcher in CP red that I love so dearly.. Its a custom run from USAT. They said it would cost me nearly $500 to get one shipped in. I live only about an hour out of Montreal here.


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Perry 
You have fun.. 

But you do know out there is a coupler of unwanted GPs for alot less $$, which means its worth painting them yourself. 
CP is very easy to paint. 
then you have the fulfillment and pride run on your rails.


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Right Chuck...

I may need to resort to something like repainting & Stan's decals here too... But honestly, I checked with USAT via phone back in late January and Charlie told me that they had those GP-38's.. I just had to wait till I had my train money together and it must have taken too long... My loss... but gee I'm so disapointed !

.... also I have no real contacts at Aristocraft to even check stock. I end up buying their stuff from ebay or dealers.


----------



## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

I can't find fault with a manufacturer for not having the desired road name. 
I paint my engines and have decals made. Some times I print the decals too. 
And if you don't want to do it yourself, there are people that do custom painting. 
Ralph


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

*Yup Ralph *I could probably just get any roadname thats left and do a repaint & some screen work..

.. But what I really wanna' do is print up some protest signs and get all my friends to "March on Malden" this next Saturday.







LOL 

Perry


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you checked with Nicholas Smith Trains in Broomall, PA? Whenever I have been there they seem to have an exceptionally large inventory of Aristo equipment on the floor and in the back room. They might be able to get some information from Aristo about what might or might not be available. They have always been very helpful.


Their phone number is: 610-353-8585.


Chuck


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Great Chuck:

I will check with them... hadn't heard about them..?

Thanks for the lead..

Perry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By railcandy on 04 Apr 2011 04:39 PM 
I have no real contacts at Aristocraft to even check stock. I end up buying their stuff from ebay or dealers.


Hi Perry,

You don't need any contacts at Aristo-Craft. Just go to their web site and you can check their stock yourself (both current and coming).

http://www.aristocraft.com/

http://www.aristocraft.com/instock/instock.pdf
http://www.aristocraft.com/instock/ONHAND.doc
http://www.aristocraft.com/instock/Arrival2.pdf
http://www.aristocraft.com/instock/arrival2.doc

Once you know what they have in stock your favorite dealer can always get it for you. As far as I know they are the only manufacturer who posts this but you can phone many manufacturers and ask them what they have in stock.

I'm still waiting and hoping for USAT to get their MoPac Passenger Cars back into stock (or to find someone who has them for sale). 

Jerry


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Thanks Jerry... I've been doing their "newly arrived" and "in stock" .PDFs there for years.. You're right if it's on there, they have it. but there's just not been any a23015s or a23003s lately. I'd love to get my hands on the Dash 9 with the "Twin Flags" roadname screened on it. I'm still in the market for those two !

I'll probably end up getting them on the used market someday...

If anyone has those two and wants to sell or sees them on ebay... let me know?

Thanks: Perry


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

If you just want it to say the name of a specific line, repaint it yourself and decal it. It's not that hard. There's no way G scale manufacturers can make every loco everybody wants for every line everybody wants. 

Meanwhile, they regularly stick a RR name on models that bear no relation to locomotives the RR actually ran: for example, the Aristo Pacific comes badged for PR: it bears little resemblance to any PRR loco. If you care about fidelity--and nobody says you have to--thats much more annoying, but also somewhat unavoidable.


----------



## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

I have an Aristo CP SD45 in stock. ART23413 http://rldhobbies.com/art22422.aspx Eventualy the manufacturers will remake CP items. I had Several of the CP S4s in stock. They have all sold out. We also have the new CP RS3 in stock as well. Send us me an E-mail and I'll see what I can find in the CP livery. [email protected] 

Robby


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Cool Robby, HOT-PINKISH-PURPLE.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By railcandy on 04 Apr 2011 04:31 PM 
Hey Keith.. I've tried the Canada dealers in the past but I have a hard time with the shipping in from Canada. Art Knapp has the USAT S4 switcher in CP red that I love so dearly.. Its a custom run from USAT. They said it would cost me nearly $500 to get one shipped in. I live only about an hour out of Montreal here.


I assume you could drive up to Montreal to pick up the loco.
How much would it cost to ship to ship the loco to Montreal? You'd probably have to pay the GST unless art invoices you to a US address.

I could probably arrange for an address in Montreal you could have the loco shipped to and then you can pick it up there.

Knut


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I just make what I want, or re-paint/decal it how I want. I think back to when I started in this hobby, LGB narrow gauge was about it, or making stuff with Stomper drive mechanisms, so the plethora of things available now is pretty amazing to me. The only diesel back then was the FA-1, no streamliner cars were made, so I made my own. Re-painted the FA units in UP colors. You can do it, might take a couple of tries and goof up some(as I have!). But it's fun.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Another possibility is Star Hobbies in Annapolis, MD. They have an incredible inventory. Their phone number is:410-349-4290. 

Chuck


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I do find it curious that there are seemingly gaping holes in product lines that never seem to be filled. (For instance, the narrow gauge C-19 mentioned earlier or a standard gauge 2-8-0 that Aristo is _finally_ releasing. A loco like that should have been on the shelves 10 years ago.) Having said that, I don't know that customer surveys or anything else would ever yield much of a consensus as to what the market wants. When you read through the various "what would you like to see produced" threads that appear on the forums from time to time, there's never a clear favorite. With all the choices for prototypes on the market, why do we have three manufacturers making Big Boys, GG-1s, etc? You'd think they'd do complimentary products and not compete directly in what's decidedly a very niche market of the model railroading hobby. Then at the same time, you have other manufacturers who won't produce a model of X because manufacturer Y already released a similar loco in a different scale. If manufacturers A, B, and C can sell duplicate locos, wouldn't it stand to reason that manufacturers Y and Z could do the same? But I gave up looking for logic years ago. 

I feel Perry's pain, though, in modeling an "also-ran" prototype; one that's popular, but not quite popular enough to get the attention of the manufacturers. Sure, we've had cars and locomotives _lettered_ for the East Broad Top, and some of them even had the same wheel arrangement as EBT locos, but that's often where the similarity ended. We have accurate steel hoppers and a $3,000 brass loco (and anxiously awaiting a live steam version that's been in development for 4 years), but the common line from the manufacturers is that the EBT is just not popular enough. And it's not just the manufacturers. When Accucraft brought out their EBT 3-bay hopper, the local hobby shop bought a few cases of the versions of the cars lettered for Colorado railroads, but none of the EBT, White Pass, or undecorated versions. They figured only the Colorado road names would sell. (Never mind the fact that the two Colorado railroads have only a small handful of cars for MOW service, and didn't buy them until fairly recently!) If the local hobby shops aren't showing the love, the manufacturers aren't going to produce. Thus we're left honing our modeling and painting skills. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it'd be nice to get a bone once in a while. 

Later, 

K


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

EBT - I couldn't agree with you more. I have the same lack of understanding where the White Pass RR is concerned. Probably the most visited three-foot gauge tourist railroad on the planet - over a MILLION visitors last year - and what is there in 1:20.3?

A plastic Mexican 2ft 6in gauge 'fake' by Bachmann. 

Apart from that, a 1:22nd lash-up by Aster and LGB of the mike and the 'same-scale' cartoon D535 diesels. A never-was 'Plymouth' switcher, and way-too-short passenger cars...

As I noted a few years back when Mr Yoder announced his sparkie EBT mike, it would not take TOO much effort to up-date it to the later version mike running on the WP - for that sort of money anything is possible. And what opportunities for modelling the WP offers!! A sea port and township, great bridges and mind-blowing vistas, and a roster that has diesels and steam running most every day. MoW equipment, even an old steam rotary.....sigh.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree the copy cat thing is hard to understand. There are three manufacturers of 1:29 40 foot steel boxcars, mostly identically lettered. Nobody makes an outside braced USRA boxcar, or a single sheathed boxcar. You'd think manufacturers would want to make something nobody else makes, but aristo is apparently planning an sw-1, which looks really similar to USAT's NW-2 

Why does nobody make a northern? The 4-8-4 was the pinnacle of steam development, they were used in freight and passenger service, lots of roads had them. Instead, we have two Hudsons. 

I've always suspected that the chinese manufacturers are driving the choices as much or more as companies like aristo or USAT, which seem to be more like importers in some ways.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Yup, I've been bitching about the lack of ANY affordable northern, let alone SF's #3751, the PRPA's SP&S #700 or the UP's #844 - ALL are still running, let alone those back in the east that I know little of, but undoubtedly have their own great following. 

True, we DO have a Gauge 1 MTH GS4 #49 Southern Daylight [another west coast loco] and an AccuCraft GS4 live-steamer in all-black, half-black and Daylight schemes and the Aster live-steam GN S-2 [yup, another west coast loco]. The plastic one is pretty cheap, the AccuCraft models not too cheap and the Aster one most definitely not cheap. And we are to be hit with a GS5 sometime in the next year or so... 

Meanwhile, Jerry Barnes has built his own #844.............. 

It has to be said that although the northerns are not everybody's cup of coffee, the fact that so many are still in use for rail-fanning excursions makes them a real proposition for those with the space to run them. I would go into debt for a #700.

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

*well everyone*... All I can say is *Aristo & USAT* woulden't have run outta' stock if there wasn't *strong consumer demand* for the CP Rail locos. When I asked UAST when they might have the GP-38s back in stock? I was told to "try back in a year maybe"..

It's sort of like the guy after the wreck who just says "*I didn't see it comming* !"

The 2 GP-38s would have given Charlie Ro about $830 in revenue yesterday. Not much in the scheme of things, but still?

*I wanna' thank all of you* that have given me other sources to locate the locos.

I want these two GP-38s before fall foliage time.

Have fun:
Perry


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 05 Apr 2011 04:46 AM 
Yup, I've been bitching about the lack of ANY affordable northern, let alone SF's #3751, the PRPA's SP&S #700 or the UP's #844 - ALL are still running, let alone those back in the east that I know little of, but undoubtedly have their own great following. 

True, we DO have a Gauge 1 MTH GS4 #49 Southern Daylight [another west coast loco] and an AccuCraft GS4 live-steamer in all-black, half-black and Daylight schemes and the Aster live-steam GN S-2 [yup, another west coast loco]. The plastic one is pretty cheap, the AccuCraft models not too cheap and the Aster one most definitely not cheap. And we are to be hit with a GS5 sometime in the next year or so... 

Meanwhile, Jerry Barnes has built his own #844.............. 

It has to be said that although the northerns are not everybody's cup of coffee, the fact that so many are still in use for rail-fanning excursions makes them a real proposition for those with the space to run them. I would go into debt for a #700.

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


Great Northern- St. Paul, Minnesota west of Mississippi.....


Terry I agree that there are many 4-8-4's that could/should be built along with your 700 and the list you have (the question has always been do the G hobbyists have the money and size layout for large locomotives):

N&W J class 611
New York Central Niagaras 
Santa Fe 2900 class 
C&O 614

So, as Jerry has done, we decided to take manners into our hands retrofitting a N & W J611 to coal/alcohol live steam and already obtain plans for the 611. 




Given that no "G" manufacturer has done a Mountain we will be retrofitting the PRR M1a to coal/alcohol live steam also.

As to Standard Gauge smaller locomotives, the Atlantic would be grand as would a SG 4-4-0.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 05 Apr 2011 03:49 AM 
I agree the copy cat thing is hard to understand. 
Why does nobody make a northern? The 4-8-4 was the pinnacle of steam development, they were used in freight and passenger service, lots of roads had them. Instead, we have two Hudsons. 


I too would love to be able to buy a Northern. It is my favorite all around steam locomotive. I have Hudsons (even though strangely many railroads never had Hudsons) and I like them but they are either too small (MTH) or too big, heavy, and expensive (USAT).

Regarding copy cats, rather than my LGB Moguls and Mikados I would much rather have LGB Ten Wheelers pulling my LGB Coaches and Pacifics (or better yet Northerns) rather than Mikados pulling my LGB mainline passenger trains. I would need LGB copy cats because the other brands cannot handle the sharp curves of my crawl space layout.

MTH did us the favor of coming out with relatively inexpensive 1:32 Hudsons, Challengers and Big Boys but they lack the shock and awe of the 1:29 USAT Hudsons and Big Boys.

IMHO the problem is less the fault of the manufacturers (who would very likely be extremely happy if they could give us everything we want) as it is the relatively small large scale train market's ability to support the products we would like to have.

Another major factor is how the different manufacturers approach the market. In my opinion there are extreme differences in how Accu-Craft, Aristo-Craft, Aster, Bachmann, Hartland, LGB, MTH, USAT and the others design and build and their products - and their prices reflect how they design and build them. I think they all give us good value for the prices they charge. There are products made by each that I have or would like to have that I would not buy if it was made and priced by the standards of a different manufacturer. Some would be too expensive for me and others would not be able to handle my layouts.

I have no cause to complain because if suddenly I could find everything I would like to buy I could never afford them. Perhaps I should be thankful that the market is limited in what I can buy after all.

I suspect that as happened with me, when we are young(er) the world is full of things we just have to have and as we get older we find ourselves thinking we need to be buying less and selling more.

Jerry


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 05 Apr 2011 07:44 AM 

IMHO the problem is less the fault of the manufacturers (who would very likely be extremely happy if they could give us everything we want) as it is the relatively small large scale train market's ability to support the products we would like to have.


That is the key problem especially when it comes to new locomotives, especially large steam ones.

Development and tooling costs for something like that have been quoted several at over a million Euros, that's about 1.3 or 1.4 million US dollars.

With the available market today for such an engine, a manufacturer would never be able to recoup their investment let alone make a profit.

When I look at some of the production runs of LGB train sets in the 70's and 80's, 40 000 sets of one tyoe and another 40 0000 sets of a second type, production runs that today's Large Scale manufacturers can only dream of.

MTH had a large influx of cash with the lawsuit they won, Meik Schröder in Germany who tooled up for a series of HSB and RhB cars and is coming out with two steam engines used an inheritance to fund the development of these new items, but unless a manufacture has a large cash influx they can and are willing to useto develop something like the Northern, I doubt you're ever going to see one at the typical prices most of us are willing to pay.


From what I see the Large Scale market has been shrinking, not expanding.


Knut


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

So after all this anger directed at Malden Mass. I went and took a look at *Robby D**'s* website and there were the GP-38s that I was looking for... So *Robby*... if you still have 2 of them in stock on July 10th this summer..? Ya' can count them sold. Thanks for your post.

Perry


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

July 10th???? and you have had a hard time finding them???? 
Maybe you should send RLD 30% down for layway then he can count them sold... You could have them paid off by July 10th. 

I once was looking for an SD-45 BN H.M. engine.
after a long search a good friend from CA and this site had seen one in a display case. So I called the store, they said they was out of production, BUT ,,when he went and looked in the front store case and saw it, there was no way I was going to tell him I will buy it months later.
Matter of fact that engine was later sold and lives in ILL at another friends home.
Just food for thought.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Perry,








I must be missing something in your post. You call this a RANT. It's in your title of your post. Forty-two replies to your post and you continued to rant. Then Robbie replies that he has your engines in stock. BTW, I just made my first order from Robbie a couple of weeks ago and you could not deal with a nicer guy. But instead of ordering from the man, your reply is to check back with him July 10th and get them then. WHAT!!!!! I believe this post might be a lot of hot air going up the stack! JMHO.


----------



## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Yeah this thread makes no sense. When you find a rare item you BUY it. You don't think about it for a few more months! I've made that mistake before, and trust me, it's hard to find items once they're out of stock. Have you looked at eBay lately? The large scale listings are pretty slim.


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 05 Apr 2011 05:01 PM 
Perry,








I must be missing something in your post. You call this a RANT. It's in your title of your post. Forty-two replies to your post and you continued to rant. Then Robbie replies that he has your engines in stock. BTW, I just made my first order from Robbie a couple of weeks ago and you could not deal with a nicer guy. But instead of ordering from the man, your reply is to check back with him July 10th and get them then. WHAT!!!!! I believe this post might be a lot of hot air going up the stack! JMHO.









Gary,

Robbys is the best,RLD Hobbies is 2nd to none in large scale.


Perry, well i see Barbie Dolls in this guys Future.















Bu-lsh-t walks and CASH talks.......









USA Trains rules Brothers............... 


I kid cause i can............

And Kevin if you mess with my post again,

or We've got issues.........


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

*Thanks Nick & all*... 

I'm not a rich guy at all... If I save up enuff funds, I can maybe buy some new G scale stuff 2 or 3 times a year at best.
so *Nick*.. consider yourself fortunate to have all that cash.

...and *Marty*.. I think you're on the right track here...

*Just to clear things up*... I first wanted a pair of *Aristocraft* Dash 9's... Out of stock at the several stores I deal with and Aristo seemed not to have them. I wrote to Aristo to see if they had any.. ? They repply "On Vacation" email "Go to our forums".

so.. my fall back plan was 2 GP-38s that *USA Trains*, Charles Ro had had in stock at the end of January. I pick up the phone and order 2 with Phoenix sound... They dont even have one left. They're the manufacture.

So now I have to switch again.... They have 3 SD-70's in CP Rail "Golden Rodent" Red. so I order one, that makes 2 left at tha manufacturer.

I was very dissapointed the way things worked out.. Its a really big deal to me to be able to get new CP diesel equipment.

I have never purchased from *Robby*... didn't even know RLD was there till maybe March or so.. 
...and had only visited his online store yeaterday.. where I saw the GP-38's

I haven't been able to confirm if RLDhobbies truly has them in stock..? and, to come up with the cash to buy them with sound, speakers ect installed will be at least $1000 bill and, I've already spent my chunk of G scale money on the order placed on Monday.
... But I will give Robby a call this afternoon... and see if they're truly in stock and can hold a pair of them for me...


Just remember guys.... Ya' dont have to be rich, or have a massive layout, to get upset with the manufacturers. It dosent need to be a $10.000 deal gone bad.. Even a $200.00 order is a big deal & very important to me. Both Manufactures were very low or no stock in CP Rail red, with no info. on when they might be made again.
.. and I can't plan in a vacume !!!

I Hope that clears up any questions?
Perry.


----------



## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

Quite a number of us are in the same boat..cashwise.
However, the British SAS (Special Air Service) have a good motto to adopt
"HE WHO DARES WINS".
So buy or layby.


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By railcandy on 06 Apr 2011 03:21 AM 
*Thanks Nick & all*... 

I'm not a rich guy at all... If I save up enuff funds, I can maybe buy some new G scale stuff 2 or 3 times a year at best.
so *Nick*.. consider yourself fortunate to have all that cash.

...and *Marty*.. I think you're on the right track here...

*Just to clear things up*... I first wanted a pair of *Aristocraft* Dash 9's... Out of stock at the several stores I deal with and Aristo seemed not to have them. I wrote to Aristo to see if they had any.. ? They repply "On Vacation" email "Go to our forums".

so.. my fall back plan was 2 GP-38s that *USA Trains*, Charles Ro had had in stock at the end of January. I pick up the phone and order 2 with Phoenix sound... They dont even have one left. They're the manufacture.

So now I have to switch again.... They have 3 SD-70's in CP Rail "Golden Rodent" Red. so I order one, that makes 2 left at tha manufacturer.

I was very dissapointed the way things worked out.. Its a really big deal to me to be able to get new CP diesel equipment.

I have never purchased from *Robby*... didn't even know RLD was there till maybe March or so.. 
...and had only visited his online store yeaterday.. where I saw the GP-38's

I haven't been able to confirm if RLDhobbies truly has them in stock..? and, to come up with the cash to buy them with sound, speakers ect installed will be at least $1000 bill and, I've already spent my chunk of G scale money on the order placed on Monday.
... But I will give Robby a call this afternoon... and see if they're truly in stock and can hold a pair of them for me...


Just remember guys.... Ya' dont have to be rich, or have a massive layout, to get upset with the manufacturers. It dosent need to be a $10.000 deal gone bad.. Even a $200.00 order is a big deal & very important to me. Both Manufactures were very low or no stock in CP Rail red, with no info. on when they might be made again.
.. and I can't plan in a vacume !!!

I Hope that clears up any questions?
Perry.




Im not Rich either Perry, Just very smart train wise.

The one key to this Hobby that i have found is

to keep your eyes open ahead of time for the 


things you wish to have. Most Manufactures give up 


to a year of leed time in some cases on what new 


Rd Names they are coming out with so you need to


watch and make a list so you know whats comin.


You dont need to have the sound installed at the

same time you buy the loco.

Do it when you get the extra cash down the road.

Most sound installs are very simple and a good way 

for you to learn about the inner workings of your locos.


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

Yup *Nick*.. All's good.. The grand plan for my little outdoor garden layout is to model the trains that currently run down the old D&H (Now CP Rail) mainline here where I live, I try to pick up rolling stock and locos that might have run through here in the last 30 years or so.. The only exception to the "Grand Plan" is 1 small classic scenic line just for fun.

I've done pretty well so far.. and actually do shop well ahead, looking for stuff that fits my layout plan.

The thing that bit my behind this time, is that I January & early Feb, I did check prices & inventories and didn't see the problem comming.

I am glad to have *Robby* as a new sorce.. 

... and yes I do work on my & paint own locos & rolling stock...... ie: The yellow hand rails on my D&H GP-38.

As you probably know this has been a bad winter up this way , snow wize. So I'll be spending the next 2 weeks clearing brush & debris away from the roadbed and getting things up and running. I'll try to post some fresh video of the new SD-70 MU'd to a SD-40-2.

I've only been in the hobby for 4 & 1/2 years now.. so I guess I need to learn some patience with manufactures & suppliers. But I still really feel that they need to see the train comming for stocking levels... Even my usual retailers can't get inventory out of these guys. I'm hopeful that some new upstart manufacture will come along and take advantage of hi-demand product?? Thats the only reason for "My RANT". Everytime I call these guys for something, It's always "Out of stock" !


----------



## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

RAILCANDY QUOTE: I'm hopeful that some new upstart manufacture will come along and take advantage of hi-demand product?? 


NEWQUIDA springs to mind. Give 'em time.


----------



## railcandy (Dec 19, 2010)

I'm glad to have talked to *Robby D* today.. another good source of stuff for my little layout. Im still P***ed with many of the manufactures.. but seems some of the retailers are too... They're just too afraid to say it in a public fashion.. The problem for us consumers is just the same for the hobby retailer.

Okay.. with all that.. Im putting' this thread to bed unless anyone has an objection ?

Oh... BTW Bachmann is not on my S*** list yet..

Good night all... sweet dreams..
C ya' in the morning









Perry

PS... Thanks for the NYCBG video *Nick*....


----------

