# When was the Climax offered



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello all
I have finally tracked down a bachmann climax at a decent price to add to my roster and I got thinking when did bachmann produce these in large scale? I think it must have been a limited run not like the shay or heisler which were produced up until recently. That leads to another question: It seems like bachmann made its name with the starter set 4 8 0 's and really got going with the geared locos and sold a ton of them, so why have they stopped making those geared engines? I wonder if they will be retooled and reintroduced in years to come along with $700 price tags? 
Your thoughts.


----------



## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

I don't remember exactly when the climax was introduced, but I got mine in 2003, and remember having quite a fiasco finding one. But bachmann has remade their shay 3 times now. They had their first successful 2-truck version, which then then produced a second time. Then their third version was the 3-truck version which is now available. I believe they've only had one run of the heisler, and I'm not sure what happened with the climax. I remember seeing what was perhaps a pre-production trial sample of a 3-truck climax back in 2006, but that obviously never went into production.


----------



## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

so why have they stopped making those geared engines? 

Possibly because they had difficulties getting them sold for a decant price / profit. I bought some Climaxes for a few hundred dollars each at blow out sales same years ago. 2003, I think. 
Bachmann had quite a few "one only run" in the past. The Baldwin Lyn for the Brit. Market, the Baldwin 2-4-2- Logging loco, the smaller Porter side tanks are no longer made and I have not even seen the Porter saddle tank or 1 :20,3 Side tank loco offered anywhere recently. The Baby Baldwin only saw 2 production runs. The European outline streetcars have long disappered from the market. Don´t know about the US street cars. 

Suppose the market is more or less saturated or blocked for new releases of mass production articles. Not many newcomers and the old ones are quietly passing away. So why should they invest any money, if the turnover is too slow? 

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


----------



## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

I bought mine in November 2000. I think it was a fairly new item then.


----------



## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

I for one wish Bachmann would reissue the Climax in G gauge. 

Best, 
TJ


----------



## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

There seems to be some misunderstandings around B'mann's approach for the USA market. 

First, their 1:22.5 offerings were limited in number but remain in production more or less since they were introduced. This would include the zillion Big Haulers and the freight and passenger cars that went with them. It is unlikely any new models will be introduced in this line (there has been no new ones in many years) but the existing models are likely going to continue as long as the market permits.

B'mann was one of the earliest proponents of Fn3 (1:20.3 scale) way back in the late 90s. They have taken the same approach to Fn3 that most of the firms in the smaller scales take - a model is produced in a specific quantity for a specific period and then is not generally ever available again although in some rare cases a rerun may be done. This business model can hardly be called limited runs although modellers coming late to the party may find older models difficult to locate except on the secondary market. 

In this model, the original shay was such a success that B'mann reran it immediately essentiallu creating a glut of shays at that time (around 2000). They apparently comtemplated a third run (i was told by a reliable B'mann manager) but cancelled it when they saw dealers moving shays at blowout prices close to dealer net from B'mann. After all the shays had vanished, and prices on the secondary market skyrocketed, B'mann reran the 2 truck shay again in the last few years this time with metal trucks to correct a design miscue in the earlier run. 
I would seriously doubt that another run of the 2 truck shay will come available in my lifetime. By the same token, I would be surprised to see the Heisler redone and surprised but much less so to see the Climax reappear. 


This model also explains why spare parts are hard come by. Simply put, since models are available at B'mann for a limitd time, no spare parts are made. Any warranty work during the product availability period is met by replacement from stock or cannabilizing existing inventory. This is not unlike the approach taken in the smaller scales.

Large scalers used to the continuous production model and high spare parts availability approach of say LGB or USAT or even Aristo have had difficulty with the B'mann business model.. However, there is no getting away from the fact that B'mann is able to produce the most highly detailed model at a very competitive price using their approach. 

I am neither defending nor criticizing B'mann's approach ... just stating what their business model is and to some extent the strengths (low price and high detail) vs the weaknesses (short availability and no long term supply of parts for maintenance). The lack of QC may also be exacerbated in such a model and B'mann, selling at a low price point in a very limited Fn3 marketplace, has certainly had their share of lapses.

Regards ... Doug


----------



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi 
Very interesting comments here. I think it is frustrating but kinda neat with what Dougald wrote "Simply put, since models are available at B'mann for a limitd time, no spare parts are made. Any warranty work during the product availability period is met by replacement from stock or cannabilizing existing inventory. This is not unlike the approach taken in the smaller scales." And if I could add it is just like what the full size scales did back in the day. If something broke or wasn't working right the in house shop would fix it by scavenging scrapes from the pile. 
The geared locos are really cool and a natural staple for many RR's considering so many of us model shortline logging or mining operations with grades and rough track work to boot. The shays and company were made for these conditions. Right now they are at the edge of affordability for many of us especially since they recently had a price increase of $100 bucks just a few months back. I just hope when the need arises for Bachmann to produce more of these fine engines, basic supply and demand, that the price doesn't double much like their current offerings else for many of us we will be left to dream. 
This question and responses has reminded me of topic I started many months ago about supply and demand in the large scale world. How can a manufacturer spend piles of dough designing an engine and then the tooling to produce it and actually turn a profit from such a limited group of people such as G men? I don't know anyone that can shell out almost $800 for a K27 or $700 for a 2662 saddle tanker no matter how nice they are. I just couldn't justify it. 
Todd


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I bought a Climax as soon as they came out. The creation date on my web page is Dec 17, 1998 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips5/climax_tips.html


----------



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I was just looking through an older issue of garden railways magazine April 2006 and trainworld had the climax offered as a "limited edition" with a blow out price of $349.99. 
Bachmann must have made a lot of them considering they were offered in 1998 and trainworld still had them new in 2006. 
I'm very excited to be getting one of these it's like Christmas is coming early for me. 
Todd


----------



## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd

B'mann's "usual" (if anything can be called usual) production run is 5,000 copies and I assume that is the number of Climaxes that were made - I have never heard first hand from anyone at B'mann what the actual number was. B'mann normally imports them in batches of between 1000 and 1500 ... depending on how fast a model is selling. The Climax was not nearly as popular as the Shay and took several years to clear from B'mann's warehouse. As you pointed out, some dealers still had a few last ones in 2006 some 7 years after the first ones arrived. It is a reflection on the size of the Fn3 marketplace and is a wonder to me that B'mann is able to produce such beautifully detailed locomotives at such a low cost with such limited sales.

Regards ... Doug


----------



## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Todd, 

I too have Christmas coming this week as I just picked up a Climax (after recommendations by everyone here) and should have it this Friday. (never guess what I will be doing this weekend). 

Rich


----------



## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Last visit at the GOLD COAST StATION in VENTURA CAL Hans had a few Climaxes ???(Whats the Plural?) on the shelf! 

manfred Diel


----------

