# 'Atlas Shrugged': From Fiction to Fact in 52 Years



## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

If you have not read 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand, I strongly reccomend it.

The attached link to a WSJ article pretty well nails it.

The book SHOULD be required reading...

It's even train related!!!

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123146363567166677.html


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Duncan, 

I read that book decades ago and I barely recall it. I do recall that, even then, the passage about the abandoned railroad trackage was too true.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I always liked "The Fountainhead" more. 

-Brian


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

I read the book during my college days. Even back then (late 60s) it was apparent that we were heading toward the situation where we now find ourselves. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on Atlas Shrugged:




"The theme of _Atlas Shrugged_ is the role of the mind in man's life and, consequently, presentation of a new morality: the morality of rational self-interest.[4]
"The main crux of the book surrounds the decision of the "men of the mind" to go on strike, refusing to contribute their inventions, art, business leadership, scientific research, or new ideas of any kind to the rest of the world. Each man of ability eventually reasons (or is convinced) that society hampers him with unnecessary, burdensome regulations and undervalues his contributions to the world, confiscating the profits and sullying the reputations he has rightfully earned. The peaceful cohesiveness of the world begins to disintegrate as each of these men of ability slowly disappears and society loses those individuals whose mental effort allows it to continue functioning. The strikers believe that they are crucial to a society that exploits them, denying them freedom or failing to acknowledge their right to self-interest, and the gradual collapse of civilization is triggered by their strike. This is not to say that they believed that giving the creators their due would cost civilization. Rather, the strikers believe that the current irrational altruist/collectivist culture impeded them and therefore the rest of society as well. As such it would serve no one's interest to continue to allow himself to be exploited, although the strike is not _primarily_ motivated by the harm the current state of society does to others as well."

The ONLY question is, will her novel prove itself out as REALITY? We are reaching the point where I it might be necessary for this to happen. Time will tell. And not MUCH time at that. 

The theme of this novel has been in the back of my mind ever since the new administration and its accomplices in the House and Senate came up with that new Stimulus plan, which now turns out to be ONLY the beginning. We certainly DO live in interesting times, as that Chinese curse goes. 


Thank you Duncan for the post.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

As General Motors goes so goes.......................... 

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/quinn/2009/0226.html

Hang on to your trains, it may be all you have left.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe we need to change the name of this forum from *"myLargeScale"* to *"myRightWingPoliticalViews"*.









-Brian


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## Dave Snow (Jan 3, 2008)

I plan on purchasing this book and reading it. It was recommended by my local conservative radio talk show host. Should be an interesting 2009


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, let's just make this the "mylargerightwingscale.com" forum.Or the grumpy white men forum.


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## mancosbob (Jan 5, 2009)

Posted By Duncan on 03/01/2009 11:15 AM
If you have not read 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand, I strongly reccomend it.





*Read it, loved it! In fact on my personal website I list it as my second favorite book...after the KJV. * 

*Atlas impacted my life for the first time when I was in my 20's; if my first and last President liked it,*
*was I not at least to read it? I read that paperback...twice, then passed it about until it began to*
*wear out; where it wound up I have no idea. I just bought another copy, one that is better suited
*
*for these older eyes. Over the Christmas Holiday, I read the book for a third time, and realized just*
*how visionary Ayn was. Having grown up to see all she had taken by the state made her uniquely*
*suitable to pen such a work. I had always shared her ideals, but had never seen these thoughts in
*
*print before; I never knew how many others felt the same way as I, until finding Ms. Rand.*


_The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't _
_enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible _
_for men to live without breaking laws._
Ayn Rand

*I knew another danger, one that my hero's, the founding fathers, had warned me of, but why was I the*
*only one who saw it 30+ years ago? None of my associates knew, or if they did, would not admit to it!
*
*Ayn Rand wrote it accurately and succinctly, see below:*



_We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to _
_do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest _
_periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force._
Ayn Rand

*I have to admit though, as I was reading the responses here, one in particular amused me; and I was *
*glad to see that the perceptions Ayn burned into me, coupled to those I have picked up or was infused *
*with, have not faded all that much.* 


_The worst guilt is to accept an unearned guilt._ 
Ayn Rand 
*It all boils down to human weakness in the end, the majority are just lazy enough to allow the morally *
*bankrupt to rule them. As long as the TV tells them what to think, there is beer in the fridge, and the *
*thought police hit "them other guys", whatever lies are fed will be absorbed, because the truth is too *
*difficult a concept to handle.
*

_When man learns to understand and control his own behavior as well as he is learning to understand and _
_control the behavior of crop plants and domestic animals, he may be justified in believing that he has _
_become civilized_.
Ayn Rand

*It's good still at this late date, to see that there are still others who keep within them the spark of *
*personal freedom; I was afraid that the PC movement and the world after 9/11 had eradicated most *
*who dared to dream like this.* 

*Thanks for starting this thread my brother, and also thanks to those who spoke their minds!
*


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

What's wrong with a right wing discussion? Nothing...


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

In that case you won't mind if the discussion is balanced by some contrary, Left wing views, will you? 

Unles of course the moderators see some sense and put a stop to all political discussion before it spirals out of control.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Truthman on 03/01/2009 3:44 PM
What's wrong with a right wing discussion? Nothing...




Nope, nothing as long as the opposing view point can be posted without "Moderator Limbaugh" deleting those posts stating that they do not allow political postings here. Clearly a lie, Mr. Truthman.

-Brian


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

I could have asked, "what's wrong with a left wing discussion? Nothing..." and the response would have been different?


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2009)

"myRightWingPoliticalViews". 

may it be, that you err? 
i think, what is happening to the industrialized world now, is not a "left"-"right" thing, but an "up"-"down" thing. 
or do you really believe, that the millions of $$ spent for the obama-campain came from different sources, than the millions spent on the bush-campain? 
i strongly suspect, that they both were sponsored by the same small group of really important people.


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

At the risk of bursting anyone's bubble, this topic is not about politics, or who did what correctly or wrongly, but more about a mindset. 
That success and positive performance should be what matters and is what is rewarded. 
It should be encouraged and not be looked upon as something to "loot". 
Taking from those who have earned their bounty, only to give it to those who will not make their own way, is a crime. 
Right, left, or middle of the road moderate - it doesn't matter. 
I'd like to leave the politics out of it... 

ps. 'The Foutainhead was another wonderful book, as was 'Anthem'... For another look at the future from the past, Ira Levin's 'This Perfect Day' is another gem...


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 03/01/2009 5:01 PM
"myRightWingPoliticalViews". 

i strongly suspect, that they both were sponsored by the same small group of really important people.

You NAILED IT! BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've seen it before in those forum--"moderation" generally a happens when someone posts something contrary to right wing opinion

Not to burst anyone's bubble.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 03/01/2009 3:17 PM
Yes, let's just make this the "mylargerightwingscale.com" forum.Or the grumpy white men forum. 









I vote for "Grumpy Old Men".







If we can't have a civil discussion about a topic, what hope is there for anything?

I don't care who or what caused it, but the country is totally broke. Think about it. How much is a TRILLION. Right it down. It's twelve zeros. These people are throwing around trillions like it is pocket change. I got curious and tried to figure the interest on a TRILLION dollars at 4 percent per annum. First of all my calculator would not hold a number that big so I pulled out an Excel spread sheet and started. Here is the answer:

40 billion dollars a year
3.3 billion dollars a month
109 million dollars a day
4.6 million dollars an hour
76 thousand dollars a minute
1.3 thousand dollars a second

We are 10 trillion dollars in debt soon to be 13 trillion.
We just told the Chinese that if they would buy more of our bonds we would not mention 'human rights' issues anymore.
What if these countries finally figure out that our bonds are worthless as we will never be able to pay them off?

Hang on to your seat as it's going to be an 'interesting' ride the next few years.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 03/01/2009 6:22 PM
I've seen it before in those forum--"moderation" generally a happens when someone posts something contrary to right wing opinion

Not to burst anyone's bubble. 





Unlike you and your buddies on the other board where you get to gang up on anybody who disagrees with you and call their opinions "garbage" or "not worth reading"? Who is it that really needs the cast iron bubble?









The sad fact is, neither party has been able to corner the market on stupid ideas. I find it interesting that BOTH parties spend so much time trying to prove that the other one is unfit to rule... mayhaps they are BOTH right on that?


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

The fact is that the trickle down theory is just that, a theory that doesn't work. One could possibly argue, "who got us to this point"?. Well if you look at who has had the reins of government for most of the last forty years, I would say that it was those conservatives, or the trickle downers. Capitalism is by it's very nature best suited to human nature. Humans are instinctivly greedy, hense capitalism suits humans. It's the greed system if it is let unregulated and uncontrolled. A few humans, the greediest amongst us, wind up with most of the wealth. Wealth begets power. Power rules. Power begets more power, making the rules better siut themselves. So don't tell me it's the masses or big government that spoils the pudding.


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## mancosbob (Jan 5, 2009)

Why is this about left and right views; when it's all about the joining the center? I think the world has seen enough selfish politics has it not? We have more people behind bars than the PRC, and that has been done by both sides! We declare war on anything from alternative views to drugs, with the only obtainable value being more human misery and more, so called, security. If a "Big 2" politician says it, I know its a lie, and I do not care from where that person gets most of their funding; it is all got a taint about it these days.

Folks, I want a strong country, just as much as affordable health care. I want a country that has the wisdom and tenderness to insure that nobody within its control is ever left disenfranchised and alone in day and age such as this; yet one astute enough to keep its citizens safe from those who look to harm them. Lofty I know, but doable if we all work together in a spirit of vision. Our enemies are not each others assorted viewpoints, its the corporations that keep us at odds over trivial matters while sucking up all of our resources (human and otherwise) for their own private use, with no vision beyond the boardroom or an annual report. 


I was once a righty, and in my youth a bit of a lefty too, but both groups spout poison and intolerance of each other; two actions that doom humanity and freedom with its diametrically opposed hate mongering. I hope this new President will have the courage to find us another path, a centered path; God knows we can't keep on the current one. I did not vote for him, or that other scarry guy...I was torn between Nader and Paul; with Ralphie boy getting my chad at crunch time. Just because I respect the ideals and thoughts of others, does not mean I take every word they utter as the only choice we have. Nothing is so dangerous as the only idea one has. We all need to listen and respect each other and forget about left and right. We need to meet in the middle and standing side by side, forge a better world that we all can live and love in, without feeling left out, or having to choose between medicine and groceries.


Look on the brightside; there is nowhere to go but up from this point...well, at least I hope so!


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## mancosbob (Jan 5, 2009)

Posted By Mik on 03/01/2009 7:36 PM The sad fact is, neither party has been able to corner the market on stupid ideas. I find it interesting that BOTH parties spend so much time trying to prove that the other one is unfit to rule... mayhaps they are BOTH right on that? 





Give that man a cigar! I think we have ignition.... we need a third viable party, one all the "little people" can support without having a barf bag handy.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Rand's point also was that the big companies may just up and leave. Like where I live. I don't need any political theory to know what I see. I have been watching the abandonments and track removals much of my life, and you can't pin that on politics or Washington alone. Something else has been happening. In my area, the smokestacks of factories are gone, along with the car factories and steel mills and stockyards and jobs. More and more, I drive past abandoned rights-of-way. The CA&E. CNS&M. Nickel Plate. Rock Island. Milwaukee. CGW. Wabash. The tracks are gone. No new ones have taken their place. I visit areas like north Boston or North Milwaukee and they are almost train-free. It's great that the survivor roads are still with us. But both industry and railways have been shrinking since the 1950s and you can see it if you are old enough. Our hobby gives us a unique form of historical preservation in the face of this.


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## mancosbob (Jan 5, 2009)

Posted By Tom Leaton on 03/01/2009 8:59 PM
Rand's point also was that the big companies may just up and leave.  Like where I live. I don't need any political theory to know what I see. I have been watching the abandonment's and track removals much of my life, and you can't pin that on politics or Washington alone. Something else has been happening. In my area, the smokestacks of factories are gone, along with the car factories and steel mills and stockyards and jobs. More and more, I drive past abandoned rights-of-way. The CA&E. CNS&M. Nickel Plate. Rock Island. Milwaukee. CGW. Wabash. The tracks are gone. No new ones have taken their place. I visit areas like north Boston or North Milwaukee and they are almost train-free. It's great that the survivor roads are still with us. But both industry and railways have been shrinking since the 1950s and you can see it if you are old enough. Our hobby gives us a unique form of historical preservation in the face of this. 




I think we have all seen enough manufacturing companies 'leave' these shores for some supposed overseas 'utopia'; when the Hank Rearden's of this nation are forced (or choose) to leave, can the Dagny Taggert's be very far behind them? I await Wyatt's Torch, that is all we need next (or was that Kuwait?)! If industry leaves us, what will our railroads haul? Imports in containers? I can see that now, by having 4 tracks over Cajon pass, all clogged with double stacks heading east, with bare tables and Ethanol coming west. 

Our crumbling infrastructure sounds a lot like the book too. We need to work on ourselves more, and mess with outsiders less. Once we are at 100% here, then perhaps we can solve the woes of every body else...but this time, maybe for only those that ask for it, and ask nicely at that.


_A government is the most dangerous threat to man's rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the _
_use of physical force against legally disarmed victims._
Ayn Rand


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

The book that convinced me the direction we are currently being told is the best way, isn't, was The Bradford Journal.


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to 
do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; ..." 

The idea that this is a new development is utter fantansy. Henry VIII had all the power described here, as did the Roman emperors, for that matter.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Given that Lassez Faire, free market Capitalism has been the cause of the current situation, I await with interest for the supporters of that system to put forward a detailed, coherent and practical solution to our problems.


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## mancosbob (Jan 5, 2009)

Posted By astrayelmgod on 03/01/2009 11:03 PM
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to 
do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; ..." 

The idea that this is a new development is utter fantansy. Henry VIII had all the power described here, as did the Roman emperors, for that matter. 


Those were not governments by the people and for the people either, were they? I will concede that any form of government made by man is guaranteed to be filled with problems, that is the nature of the beast. No matter how one begins, at some point their eyes are opened to all the other fruits they may choose from. The day always seems to come when the highest of ideals are replaced with greed or lust of power; so shall it ever be.

I'd give anything to wake up in a paradise where you could do whatever you wanted (within reason of course, harming none but yourself perhaps), maybe even able to afford seeing a Doctor and keeping your home payments current, all in the same month. Sometimes, I think the right paints France with such a hate filled brush, so most folks won't look at that countries medicine, their schooling, vacations and so on and say, why not here too? Keep them fighting amongst themselves seems to be the rule.

Again, you can blame whom ever or whatever you want to for where we are financially, but despite any system design, left or right, man's greed will find a way to exploit even the best intentioned plans. History proves this if it proves anything.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Back to Duncan's orignal post...about reading Atlas Shrugged. I want to encourage ALL MLSers to actually get the book and read it. It is a GOOD book...and it's about railroading. I has all the financial and governmental stuff that is being discussed, but it is also a DAMN GOOD railroad story. Read it...not only will you enjoy spending the 15 hours it takes you to read it (it's long)...but you'll, perhaps, learn a new way to look at things that are going on now. It is DEFINITELY worth the time to read.

I'm going to find my copy of it...yes, I have a copy from back when I was in school in the 1960s somewhere I'm sure...and read it...again. It's a GOOD READ...even if all you want is to escape from the "reality" of today.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Umm... Let's try and stick to trains guys.. This topic is too political in nature.. There are other forums to discuss political matters.


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Political forums ? 
Why would you want to go there ? 
They have way too much politics and no trains at all ! 

Andrew


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## mancosbob (Jan 5, 2009)

Sorry, I took the "general" forum title as being literal...

Don't let anything written here dissuade you from reading the book, 
the destruction of America's railroads described in *Atlas Shrugged* 
is a lesson not to be lost on issues that have no resolution. 
The warnings in the book are clear, and should at least be pondered 
before they are dismissed.


Be it known, you are all right in your beliefs and feelings, because what

confronts us has many facets; we all fit in someplace.

Oh, and I hear a movie is planned for release in 2011, but nothing seems final yet. 


Peace...


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