# LGB 2019s Sound Problem ?



## GSDenshaw (Nov 16, 2014)

I have an LGB 2019s Mogul Locomotive which is not functioning correctly. 

Garbled bell sounds occur while the locomotive is running. I have also heard a muffled stuck whistle sound while running.

Otherwise, chuff sounds are normal, start up sounds and bell/whistle sounds function normally.

Final symptom: Shut down sounds do not end cleanly. Instead the sound decays (both pitch and volume drop simultaneously).

I tried disconnecting the reed switch bell/whistle trigger, but this did not correct the problem.

Has anyone experienced this problem ? How did you resolve the problem ?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Change the 9 volt battery under the coal load.
I assume this is the original sound unit.


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## GSDenshaw (Nov 16, 2014)

Original LGB sound board and new 9v battery.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Greetings and welcome to MLS....

I "assume" you are running track power...... What power supply or transformer are you using?????


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## GSDenshaw (Nov 16, 2014)

LGB 5006/5007 also LGB 50111/51070 and yes - track power.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

It still can be the connector for the battery or the circuit board.
The battery is needed for the sounds to be activate when the track power goes low or off and your problem sounds like the board does not see the battery.


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## GSDenshaw (Nov 16, 2014)

I can confirm that my meter indicates 9v across the battery terminals and 9v on the lower circuit board where the battery connector is soldered to the board.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The board must have a problem with the battery circuit as your issues sound like a dead battery to me. 

Time for an upgrade to a better sound system.
I have done Phoenix in the past, great sounds, and now with my DCC system I install decoders with motor/light/sound/smoke control and some with uncoupling features.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

I have no idea whats wrong with your sound .
Years ago the sound went out on my number 6 LGB C&S mogul , took it into Watts Trains and , it was the pc board gone bad , and he told me a new sound would be needed because the stock boards were kaput , and he showed me a trash can full of failed boards . [ Watts Trains serviced a LOT of LGB trains ] 
My Number 6 still has no sound . Good luck and I hope your board has not failed .


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

GSDenshaw said:


> LGB 5006/5007 also LGB 50111/51070 and yes - track power.


I think I would agree with Dennis, GS. You probably have a bad sound board.


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## GSDenshaw (Nov 16, 2014)

Thank you to Dan, Stan and Dennis for your input on this issue. I contacted Massoth concerning this issue and received the following in their reply:

" In most cases the electrolyt capacitors are damaged and should be replaced all ! "

I guess the next step is to determine the quantity and rating of all of the capacitors on the boards, and their price and availability. Massoth is not willing to release schematics for this system (I asked).

I know that Piko offers a decent analog sound system for around $80. Also am aware of the LGB sound module and accessories (approximately $300).

I know there are lots of options available. What systems have you used to replace the original sound boards ?

I do not plan on adding MTS decoders or converting to another DCC system. I would prefer something which can utilize the chuff sensor in the locomotive, but a system which can be adjusted to synch would also be acceptable. 

Recommendations would be appreciated.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

On the low-priced end of the spectrum, there's MyLocoSound, which will run you around $80. This is an analog sound system, but was just upgraded with some new features, like a digital recording of a bell. I've got the older-generation MyLocoSound card in one of my steamers, and it's pretty good. Here's a YouTube video showing the upgraded board: 
*



*
(I wanted to just post the link, but the software gave me the actual video.) I can hear improvements in this file over mine, so I'd recommend it for a solid-quality, low price sound option. It's not a "high-end" digital system, but it's a great value for the price. 


Next up would be Dallee Electronics' sound boards. ($100 - $110) These are digital boards, with digital chuff, bell, and whistle. They sound great, but my only "complaint" is that they're not polyphonic. They can only play one sound at a time. When you blow the whistle or ring the bell, the chuff cuts out. If you're a sound purist like me, then this could get in the way of enjoying the fullness of sound. If you're looking for something to bring the locomotive to life as it's running around the railroad, you'll do well with it. The one thing I do like about this board is that it's got an option on the whistle where if you're using track magnets to trigger the whistle, it will play a different whistle pattern each time. This saves you from hearing the s-a-m-e e-x-a-c-t whistle every blippin' time. The whistle will be the same tone, but a different pattern (such as grade crossing one time, two shorts the next, etc.) So, high marks for that one. 

Beyond that, you're looking at Phoenix, which for analog DC (standard track power) compatibility will run you around $240. Phoenix is arguably the gold standard of analog DC compatible large scale sound system, but it's not exactly the cheap option. Most of my sound systems are Phoenix, but--again--I'm something of a sound purist. It's worth the extra money to my ears.

If you can find an old Soundtraxx "Sierra" sound system, those are also good. I'd put them between Dallee and Phoenix. They're digital and polyphonic. The trick is finding them. They occasionally come up on ebay, and expect to pay between $100 - $150 when they do. 

All of these boards will allow you to use an external chuff trigger to trigger the chuff. Some will allow voltage-controlled chuff rate as well, but I really hate that. (Again--purist.) What I don't know is whether you can easily adapt the chuff trigger in the mogul or not. If I recall, the chuff is triggered by a metal "flag" for lack of better term on the middle axle. I think it's a magnetic (Hall effect) trigger, but don't quote me. This arrangement gives you only two chuffs per revolution, not the prototypical four. If I were to rebuild this, I'd glue a disk with four magnets spaced 90 degrees apart to this, and use a magnetic reed switch to trigger the chuffs. That would give you the proper 4 chuffs per revolution. 

Or, you can use the tender wheels, and use 3 magnets spaced 120 degrees apart. It won't be _exactly_ 4 chuffs per revolution, but it will be pretty close, since the tender wheels are of smaller diameter than the drivers. 

Later,

K


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## GSDenshaw (Nov 16, 2014)

Thank you K ! That is a lot of information. Very helpful.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB 6500x series of boards hava a nice generic sound, but no chuff sensing and low wattage for the speaker. And the storage capacitor board and bell/whistle board are extra cost. Sound is not programmable. Unit is DCC.

For less money, you can get the Phoenix and now you have chuff sensing, and battery and sensors are included plus if you get the programmer a whole new world is open to you. This has DCC also and works on analog quite nicely.

For less money you can get a programmable large scale decoder which has all the above features, can be configured for puffing smoke on steam engines (3 settings for fan control and 3 settings for the heater element plus light and motor control. Diesels are programmed for 3 fan speeds, just no chuff.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Dan, are the decoders you mention in your last paragraph DCC only? Or if they do run on analog (with pulsed or adjustable fan-driven smoke), do you need a DCC system (or interface such as JMRI) to program them?

Later,

K


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The decoders do work on DC, and yes they need to be programmed.
I install and tune the smoke units for either DC or DCC.

Why the difference.... In DCC the track power is constant, but in DC the track power is not.

These decoders in DC/analog mode do not move the engine until approx. 8 volts is on the rails. This allows the decoder to 'start up' and turn on lights and sound plus preheat the smoke element which must be tied to a low voltage.
Many sound files have a start up sequence which sounds like the real thing, diesels rev up and blow smoke before idling.

PS, I do have the phoenix programmer and configure sounds. My digital systems are both types of MTS (I, II, II with parallel) and the computer interface.
My now preferred system is the DCC Zimo and I work with Axel at Train-li installing decoders and repairing engines.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

What you're doing, then, is actually converting the loco to full DCC, and programming the decoder to be analog-DC compatible as opposed to "stop on DC" or other configuration. That'll work, you just need access to a DCC system to program the decoder. 

One caveat--you need to take into consideration the kind of analog track power you're using. If you're using pulse-width-modulation, is the decoder going to recognize that as analog DC, or are you going to have to add a filter to the throttle output? 

Are there specific decoders you might recommend? I'd be looking for externally triggered bell and whistle via track magnets or similar (not real time), cam-synchronized chuff, and smoke synced to that same chuff. 

Later,

K


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I will have to confirm the use of pulsed controlled DC on the zimo decoder.
These do work on the Train-li key fob system. I will have to try my 27mhz Aristo system.\ set to non-linear.


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