# Dr. Rivet Narrow Gauge Steamup



## kfrankl3 (Feb 27, 2008)

Thanks again to Dr. Rivet for inviting me. I'm posting videos and photos of the steamup to my blog. www.redshirtsdiefirst.com


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

'Twas a wonderful day in the country with Dr Rivet. This is from Saturday's activity.

I also took a few photos when not running my trains. 

This long morning stock train was double-headed by Dave Rose and Jason's K's Ks:









Ah yes - Dave and Jason doing the necessary to keep the train in operation:









Here's my live-steam C-16 (EBT #7 look-a-like) heading out into the hazy morning:









Dr Rivet finally made it (something he ate on Friday night kept him from enjoying the morning,) and he brought out his hoppers. This is my battery-r/c EBT #15 with 19 hoooooooooooooooooooppers! [P.S. EBT only rated #14/15 for 18 loaded hoppers, but as Jim's layout has no 'Adam's Summit' to climb, and his hoppers are empty anyway, we figured the Fat Controller wouldn't mind.] 








_
More to come.._


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## kfrankl3 (Feb 27, 2008)

Created with Admarket's flickrSLiDR.

www.redshirtsdiefirst.com

If the javascript dosen't properly display the images can be found here: Flickr


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

That's a great-lookin' black square ya got there, Sir.

My wife, who is partial to bronzey-greeny shades, like the BNSF green, wants to know if you can help her out with one in that shade.

Best

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## kfrankl3 (Feb 27, 2008)

Ah, sorry. The javascript program doesn't always render correctly in all browsers or connections speeds. I've added a direct link in the post. Sorry again.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm posting videos and photos of the steamup to my blog


Kevin, 

That video taken from your flatcar is awesome! And I loved this sepia photo you took of my C-16:


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

A few more pics of my favorite engines..

After a while, I backed my #15 into the yard to let Jim run JoAnn's #15. We didn't think double-heading with two identical engines was quite the thing to do:










While Jim was leaving the yard, the RGS guys were building their next spectacular. 47+ stock cars with 3 Ks under steam:









Our congenial host finally gets out on to the mainline:










Another photo of Jim's #15 with the 19 hoppers, a boxcar and a combine, with Dr Rivet himself on the right. Plenty of activity in the background:









The stock train with two Ks at mid-train and one on the point:


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## kfrankl3 (Feb 27, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words! I hope to make my flatcar camera runs a sort of tradition at Dr Rivet's steamups.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Here are the photos I took over the weekend. Didnt take as much as I would of liked but we were busy running the triple headed 50 car freight train for 1.5 hours. I also managed to pull 44 stock cars with my single K28 except the grade just caused it to slip, or was that Jeff's 5 fingers on the end???? Once stopped on the grade it would not move just slip. Dam rain and grease. 

We even were able to get 4 locos out pulling the 50 cars, we should of brought out the other 30 or so box cars. Well have to wait until the fall meet. Only at Jims can you have that much fun.

It was still a great day, even had the graces of Dave Rose Friday running in the rain, then again after dinner. 

FYI - 44 stock cars weigh 154 lbs and are 75.16' long without the brass caboose on the end.

Still working on getting the video together

Here are the photos.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

A huge thank you to the Stapleton's for the Narrow Gauge meet this weekend. I had a great time Saturday! There was plenty o' track time, and there was a lot of different NG trains running all at once (battery and live steam). It was awesome!!! The long stock car train was a thrill and we ran that for around 2 hours straight only stopping for fuel and water when needed. I've made a 8 minute video and uploaded to You Tube.... Just waiting for it to 'process'. Hopefully the quality is OK after it is processed.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Here we go....There is quite a few shots of the stock car train in this video. 
Don't miss the last clip!! You would think the NG meet would be slow going, but Dave Orwig shows otherwise.


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## kfrankl3 (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey Jason,
looks like you got some technical difficulties, something is off with the html. Sorry just really wanna see your photos!


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## kfrankl3 (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey David,
That is a awesome video! Thanks for posting it! Man, now I'm regretting I didn't get to stay longer yesterday or go today!


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## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

Wow that lil 4-4-0 was bookin! Im guessing that someone was paying the railroad top dollar to move those cows and they were running a little late cause that stock train was moving right along in some of those clips! Anyone get a lap time on that Regner? Looks like it might have given the GS4 a fair run for its money.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Now I know how a dog feels, watching TV.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

WOW! And I thought narrow gauge was all about short and slow running trains;-). I like the sound of the opening #472 is it equipped with the bark box or raw? Thanks, Zubi


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

So sorry I missed it! Looks like a great time all around and the weather turned perfect. 


What a great run of trains and rolling stock


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice to see art work in motion


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

In David's video at 7:36, you can see that a fourth K-28 was added at the end of the train. All four had 2.4 GHz R/C, making control easy - something we might not have been able to do back in the FM glitching days. Had we had them available, we might have been able to double the number of cars since the K-28s were not straining.
.
Thanks to Jim for his hospitality and the use of his track. Splitting the NG and SG steamups is a good solution.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

quite a few shots of the stock car train 


_Ya think? 

_Great video Dave. I have an identical shot of a long, boring hopper train - but you have the same one and it has me in it, so I'll refrain! 



Nice to see art work in motion 


Now that pic floored me for a moment, Charles, as it isn't even on Jim's track - but I recalled that 40' reefer was Jeff's, so when I went back to Dave's video I found a millisecond glimpse of Jeff's C-16 - right after my hoppers. 

Yes, it's a beautiful piece of work, as are the other cars in his train. Pity Jeff will never seen this... 
It inspired me to start planning to back-date my EBT #15 to revenue service (black window frames, walkway edges, wheels, boiler bands,) and maybe a light weathering of coal dust.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete

Jeff did get to see it, he was over the house last night and view the MLS posting. Ryan is set to do his other engine and have it ready for Tuckahoe.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By weaverc on 06/08/2009 6:36 AM
In David's video at 7:36, you can see that a fourth K-28 was added at the end of the train. All four had 2.4 GHz R/C, making control easy - something we might not have been able to do back in the FM glitching days. Had we had them available, we might have been able to double the number of cars since the K-28s were not straining.
.
Thanks to Jim for his hospitality and the use of his track. Splitting the NG and SG steamups is a good solution.




Yes, the K-28s had no problem at all pulling the long sting of stock cars. Jason's K-28 could almost pull the whole thing solo. We did have one K-28 run out of gas and the other two pulled it along with the rest of the cars no problem. Who knows what 4 K-28s can pull...... we'll need a lot of cars to find out.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

GREAT video! I'm curious about the sound though... at one point I thought I heard an airpump, and the whistle didn't sound like any Bangham whistle I've heard. Was someone's loco equipped with digital sound? And was that a bark box?


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, the only locos there with a bark box were my K-27 (not shown in the video) and the last K-28 in the long string of cars.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah - almost forgot the first bit of video. (You RGS guys can just skip this.)


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Was someone's loco equipped with digital sound?


Several of the sparkies were. The EBT Mikes had Sierra (mine) and Phoenix (Jim.) Jack Thompson was there with his beautifully painted Dulles & Reston Garden Weeds Railway, and his #20 is very visible in Dave's video - and noisy too. I think that's a Phoenix sound system. 

There was one other K-28 running on electricity with a decent sound system, (Chuck's) and there's a brief shot of it somewhere around here! Look for the K pulling 2 cars. 

Of course, the locos without any smoke are clearly not live steam... Hope I get my EBT #12 next year, as promised. 
One last photo - too wide to post (you wouldn't be able to find the trains if I made it 640x480.) It's 2816 x 769, so tell your browser to show the whole thing. It shows all three K-28s and the whole stock/boxcar train, plus Jon's K and his consist, plus Jim and the hopper train.
_*Wide View of (half of) Dr Rivet's layout, Sat pm.*_


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

That's a great-lookin' black square ya got there


Kevin, 

I know what Tac means, but it does seem to start the slideshow eventually! You got some great photos: 
*http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157619267480545/*


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## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 06/08/2009 8:18 AM
Pete

Jeff did get to see it, he was over the house last night and view the MLS posting. Ryan is set to do his other engine and have it ready for Tuckahoe. 



Tuckahoe? As in Tuckahoe, New Jersey?


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric,
Nope, Tuckahoe Maryland
http://search.visitmaryland.org/visitsearch/vmevent?eventNumber=4&eventID=10912
The organization sponsoring the event is here:
http://tuckahoesteam.org/


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete:

It was my K-28 running on batteries and Air Wire (Phoenix sound). 

After having been an observer at the IE & W steamups for many years it was great to be able to run an engine of my own.


Thanks Jim and JoAnn for a great time.

Here are a couple of pictures of my K-28 and cars.






















Chuck N


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck, 

Very nice. That long reefer you are pulling looks great as well.


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## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

Where did you get the 40ft reefer?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric: 

The 40 foot reefer is a Phil's Narrow Gauge kit. I finished it about a year ago. The kit was well documented and went together without too much trouble. This is the only one of his kits that I have built, I strongly recommend them. 

Chuck


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

It was my K-28 running on batteries and Air Wire (Phoenix sound). 
Thanks Chuck and Pete. At least I know I wasn't hearing things. hehehe


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, thanks for sharing all these photo's

How many of those cattle cars are you all towing? So many, it is hard to count in the photo


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 06/10/2009 12:48 PM

How many of those cattle cars are you all towing? So many, it is hard to count in the photo.

Bob,
The answer is... A LOT.
I think there were 50 cars total, so subtract the caboose and the few box cars for the answer.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Bob 

We had 42 stock cars for the train. At least half had PNG ball bearing truck conversions which helped quite a bit. We also had three of the PNG 40 foot reefers here, all with different running numbers. The EBT hopper train included 17 of the Rich Yoder Models brass hoppers, so you can see that the RYM Mike has plenty of power. Scott Lommer's pipe gons and idler flats were very nice; so was Jeff Redeker's freight train that suffered from an obvious dose of weathering. Jack Thompson's cars of course, looked "just right". Nice to see a NG freight that wasn't straight from the RR paint shop. 

Thanks to every one who attended. The battery and live steam operations went well. It was the first time that we made extensive use of my long passing tracks to keep several trains moving. At times we had five or six trains out on the line at once. I am not sure we are ready for the next step... opposing train movements. 

Regards


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

I am not sure we are ready for the next step... opposing train movements.

That will only work with written train orders, named meeting points and proper triain crews. Engineer/fireman/brakeman/conductor which could be two people at minimum. Fast clock in 1:20 time. We did it in a HO club I belonged to with a 1:87 time clock. Man could that sucker move. 
N


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim,
Thanks for the day. I sure do like having the NG run alone.
Now for the next stage -- please wait until I get my K-36 before you attempt to have opposing oprations.


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## jmkling (Jan 2, 2008)

Zubi, 

That was my #472 (former green #475) that I had weathered by Bobby Hunter. the stack talk is raw, just as it came from the factory. I se no need to do anything with it. Quite fun running four engines and a large train....


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Jon, thanks! There is absolutely no need to do anything to this engine, it sounds wonderful! Best wishes, Zubi


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Carl 

I have a concern about the larger Ks with plows being able to pass each other. As it is, I need to check some ground throws for clearance, especially in the yards. 

Noel, 

Most folks use a 10:1 or 12:1 fast clock. 87:1 would mean that every real minute was 87 minutes; almost an hour and a half. A full 24 hours in the operating session would only take 16 minutes and 33 seconds. I DON'T believe it. Are you "self-prescribing" again?? 

Regards


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Most folks use a 10:1 or 12:1 fast clock. 87:1 would mean that every real minute was 87 minutes; almost an hour and a half. A full 24 hours in the operating session would only take 16 minutes and 33 seconds. I DON'T believe it

The 1:87 HO clock was made up by some Navy CAPT and submariner. I think it was Dave Cooper or Pleny Holt. (Yes his father and uncle developed Holt Tractors and Pleny still had patents from the company that Catapillar was paying on in the 70's. He was a Naby aviortor retired CAPT) We scrapped it after a couple of sessions and wen with a 12:1. What arfe you going to use?? Got to have something. 
N


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Noel 

Mike Moore and I have been batting this around for quite some time. Fast clocks are not the answer. Some guys don't look where they are going; you expect them to look at their watch??? I think train orders would be the first attempt, with specific instructions related to a SEQUENCE of train movements rather than timing. Remember, many steamers did not come from the world of scale modeling, let alone prototypical operation. 

This is just going to be a grand experiment with a limited number of operators who are interested in trying this out. I know some folks in Canada do this on a regular basis, so it is possible. I am pretty sure Jack Verducci has operating sessions on his layout. 

I would NEVER try this during a regular meet. I may be crazy, but I am not stupid [at least that is my biased opinion].


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim

We run a regular operating session (with sparkies generally) every saturday morning during the summer. Every once in a while I pull out my Accucraft shay which is very controllable. During the American Invasion weekend, some of the folks from the Upstate Live Steamers join us - they always run their steamers during the operation and give a very good account of themselves. I have reported in the past on MLS on some of our operations plus a few years back Ron Brown published a piece on this in StiG

There are two critical issues to making this happen inho. The first is a willingness of the operators to actually participate and pull it off. In my experience, I have found most live steamers more than willing to test their mettle (and their loco) against something a bit more challenging then just wide open running. Two man crews are almost essential especially when there is complex switching to do as well as keep the loco running smoothly and watch for other trains while obeying train orders.

The second issue is controllability. Prototypical operations require that the loco be easily controlled especially at the typical slow speed running that is needed. R/C plays a role as does a finely tuned loco though I must say that manual control works just fine on elevated track provided the speed is kept down to protypical standards.

I really enjoy the ops sessions with live steam ... I know Jack Verducci has been doing so for years but California unfortunately has never been on my travel schedule so I have only read about his experiences. i am sure that some of your operators would also find a lot of fun and satisfaction in giving it a try.

Regards ... Doug


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a concern about the larger Ks with plows being able to pass each other


What Dr Rivet didn't mention, and I'll say it so anyone thinking of this type of operation can ponder the results, is that a derailment could be catastrophic. A K-36 'ploughing' into a stock car train could send a lot of expensive stock cars in for repair.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Funny, but I remember a lot of the same things being said just before the really BIG K-27s arrived.
The only results on the track we were running on in Golden, Colorado were:

They could pull more cars than any previous locomotive
They could run longer than any previous locomotive
Side by side track clearances had to be closely checked
The K-27 cylinders hit a few of the switch levers, which had to be moved
There were a lot of happy K-27 owners


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 06/10/2009 4:45 PM
Bob 

We had 42 stock cars for the train. At least half had PNG ball bearing truck conversions which helped quite a bit. We also had three of the PNG 40 foot reefers here, all with different running numbers. The EBT hopper train included 17 of the Rich Yoder Models brass hoppers, so you can see that the RYM Mike has plenty of power. Scott Lommer's pipe gons and idler flats were very nice; so was Jeff Redeker's freight train that suffered from an obvious dose of weathering. Jack Thompson's cars of course, looked "just right". Nice to see a NG freight that wasn't straight from the RR paint shop. 

Thanks to every one who attended. The battery and live steam operations went well. It was the first time that we made extensive use of my long passing tracks to keep several trains moving. At times we had five or six trains out on the line at once. I am not sure we are ready for the next step... opposing train movements. 

Regards




A friend of mine towed 49 cars with his K on our club track here in Vegas. I bet a tall, cool glass of lemonade a K would tow 80 or 90 well tuned cars on your track. That would be one for the books.

Thanks again, Bob


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dont worry Bob its in the works for the fall meet. Of the 50 cars towed 21 had ball bearings, rest are just oiled.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

So I should bring my AMS stuff next time?


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## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

I got about 14 cars I could add!


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 06/10/2009 8:37 PM
Noel

Mike Moore and I have been batting this around for quite some time. Fast clocks are not the answer. Some guys don't look where they are going; you expect them to look at their watch??? I think train orders would be the first attempt, with specific instructions related to a SEQUENCE of train movements rather than timing. Remember, many steamers did not come from the world of scale modeling, let alone prototypical operation.

This is just going to be a grand experiment with a limited number of operators who are interested in trying this out. I know some folks in Canada do this on a regular basis, so it is possible. I am pretty sure Jack Verducci has operating sessions on his layout.

I would NEVER try this during a regular meet. I may be crazy, but I am not stupid [at least that is my biased opinion].

Jim:

During Jack Verducci's small layout operations everyone running wears a wireless headset which seems to make everything run fairly smoothly for both experienced users and first timers on his layout. There is a "Control Tower" (a small deck) which overhangs the hill layout providing a view of the entire layout. 

So maybe you get to build a Tower.









Chris.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 06/11/2009 11:23 AM
Posted By Dr Rivet on 06/10/2009 4:45 PM
Bob 

We had 42 stock cars for the train. At least half had PNG ball bearing truck conversions which helped quite a bit. We also had three of the PNG 40 foot reefers here, all with different running numbers. The EBT hopper train included 17 of the Rich Yoder Models brass hoppers, so you can see that the RYM Mike has plenty of power. Scott Lommer's pipe gons and idler flats were very nice; so was Jeff Redeker's freight train that suffered from an obvious dose of weathering. Jack Thompson's cars of course, looked "just right". Nice to see a NG freight that wasn't straight from the RR paint shop. 

Thanks to every one who attended. The battery and live steam operations went well. It was the first time that we made extensive use of my long passing tracks to keep several trains moving. At times we had five or six trains out on the line at once. I am not sure we are ready for the next step... opposing train movements. 

Regards




A friend of mine towed 49 cars with his K on our club track here in Vegas. I bet a tall, cool glass of lemonade a K would tow 80 or 90 well tuned cars on your track. That would be one for the books.

Thanks again, Bob 




Wonder what the limit on the AMS couplers are?? Also, the drawbar pin on the K-28 (tender side) needs some reinforcement. Mine and Jasons were flopping around by the end of the day.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I have 28, if I could get them out there. Looks like a date with destiny.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, that's a good question. By the end of the day, mine was flopping too. My tender pin that is. 
I'm eager to hear how you or Jason solves the problem. I may redo the whole thing since the pin just seems to be attached to one thin surface only.


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