# Accucraft AMS Passenger cars (need for Baggage, RPO, and Parlor)



## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Friends,
I am new, within the last year and a half to 1:20.3 D&RGW modeling, but have been in 1:22 for over twenty years. It seems that there is a need for more passenger cars in this scale. AMS make some fine coaches and combines, but why not the other variety? I keep checking their web site and there is nothing of this type listed in the 'under consideration' tab in the news section. Anyone out there know if these are considered in the near future? Maybe Bachmann could produce these to go along with the AMS combine & coach?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Ted
As part of the San Juan 1:20 set [in brass], they made a parlor car, baggage car and an RPO. Parlor cars and RPOs were not common and suggestions for a plastic baggage car have not moved Accucraft to make one. 

The basic building blocks are there to build any car you want. IF you have to have it fall out of the box as a ready-to-run toy...in 1:20 you are going to either buy a brass one [they come up for sale quite regularly], or sit on your hands and wait. Send a $100,000 check and you will get Bing's attention.

Sorry for the blunt response, but this is the current reality.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

There are kits and replacement sides to modify the accucraft cars.

https://sites.google.com/site/riograndemodelsuk/










Andrew


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Andrew

I do not believe Jonathan B. is representing them, and it is not clear if RGM is actually still producing anything. I do have some of his items and they were quite good.

Ted.... it is worth a try contacting them if you want to build something like #62.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Over the past several years, there has been some discussion of this, Spectrum passenger cars in 1:20.3, on the Bachmann site. I hate to put words in a manufacturers mouth, but my impression is not likely. I could use stronger language, but I value my participation in both sites.

Chuck


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr Rivet said:


> Ted
> As part of the San Juan 1:20 set [in brass], they made a parlor car, baggage car and an RPO. Parlor cars and RPOs were not common and suggestions for a plastic baggage car have not moved Accucraft to make one.
> 
> The basic building blocks are there to build any car you want. IF you have to have it fall out of the box as a ready-to-run toy...in 1:20 you are going to either buy a brass one *[they come up for sale quite regularly]*, or sit on your hands and wait. Send a $100,000 check and you will get Bing's attention.
> ...



Really? I've not seen or heard of any coming up in years. If they did come up I'd expect they'd fetch a good premium. In hindsight I kinda wish I'd not sold my set, what, how many years ago now has it been? Water under the dam and over the bridge.  

At least I still have my two extras, a Parlor and Coach.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I started dealing with David Gormley of Rio Grande Models, UK about 6 years ago. I first approached David about making the Chili Line bay windows used on the coaches. He did produce a great kit and I have the windows on a AMS #306 coach now. Then he started making the laser cut wood replacement sides for the AMS coaches, so I purchased a Pagosa Springs combination kit. Turned a AMS coach into #212 WITHOUT the cupola. Lots of history written about that particular car. I know that Steve Stockham (member of MLS a few years back) built quite a few of David's kits and they all finished very nice. The last time I heard from David was back in May 2010 and I know he doesn't have an up to date website and I don't think he is in business anymore. Jonathan Bliese was a distributor for his kits, but I don't think he does that now.

The kits were about $180 five years ago.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

You might check out *Great American Locomotion*. He offers replacement side kits for the Accucraft passenger coaches for a few different cars. You're going to have to break out the screwdriver, glue, and paint, but you can get the different D&RGW cars you're after. He lists a baggage, RPO, and Rico and Edna business cars. 

Beyond that, I wouldn't hold my breath for Bachmann or Accucraft for any new passenger equipment in the near future. *Iron Horse Engraving* offers wood kits for EBT passenger equipment (coach, baggage, and combine). That's not going to be of much use to the D&RGW modeler, but for those looking for 1:20 passenger equipment, the pool is pretty shallow, so you may as well list all the contenders. 

Later,

K


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Chris
There have been multiple sets on evilBay plus at least two went to auction here east of the Miss River... all in the last year. In general the cars went in the $350-$500 range.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

There was a brass Accucraft Alamosa Parlor car on eBay just a few days ago. One bid $599! 
I never mentioned them because I figured brass was beyond the OP's budget considering he was talking plastic.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Accucraft-1-20-Brass-Alamosa-Parlor-Car-from-San-Juan-set-/321650777305?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4ae3e15cd9&nma=true&si=K3rFqjZzOBzSqOs9BCKE1%252FsRyZI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Andrew


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Ted, the complete San Juan set is now on Ebay if you are interested. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

I stand corrected. I also noticed Rio Grande Southern Railroad Hobbies has a San Juan 4 car set used for $2,675 - expensive.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

zubi said:


> Ted, the complete San Juan set is now on Ebay if you are interested. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


It is the complete 5 car set but.... $3,000 ?  jeeeeeezzzzz. Money no object I guess.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Chris, these cars were not cheap when first released. Considering they are all brass and limited edition long sold out, I think that this is a pretty reasonable price. Try to get them custom made to the same standard... Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> It is the complete 5 car set but.... $3,000 ?


They were $500/car when first released in a limited edition. $600/car doesn't sound unreasonable.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, Zubi;
Ok, you're right. But wasn't the original deal buy 4 for $2500 and get one free, making it $625 each with one free? 

That would make this 4 for $3000 or $750 each with one free.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Consider that the plastic Accucraft coaches sell for $225 - $275 depending on where you get them. Add in the replacement sides for the baggage or RPO, and you're pushing $350 - $400 per car. And you get to do the work of assembling and painting. Iron Horse Engraving's kits are in the $500 ballpark with trucks and couplers. 

Just like the prototype, there's nothing cheap about passenger cars. 

Later,

K


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

When the D&RGW was in its prime how many San Juan cars did they have in inventory ? (Just about how many, estimate, guesstimate, etc., in round numbers for perspective.) 

I assume they had more than just one consist matching Accucraft's 5 cars; more passenger coaches than RPO or Parlor cars. 

Did D&RGW ever run more than one Parlor car on the same train? For example, if someone leased a Parlor car would the D&RGW have second Parlor for the riff-raff (who could not afford their own.)

So it would not be un-realistic or un-prototypical to add a passenger coach or maybe even two to a Accucraft's San Juan set?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

At a minimum there were two trains, one in each direction. My understanding is that the standard consist was four cars, RPO, baggage, coach, and parlor. A second coach could be added as needed. My guess is that there were some extras for insurance, but that is only a guess. 

My books are 2500 miles away, further assistance would be a plus.

Chuck


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

There was a brass car (parlor car I think) available a month or two ago via the Facebook Gscale swap and shop. In the past year I started to get into 1:20.3 as well. TEd, r u coming to the ECLSTS?
LAO


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

This same topic came up a long time ago on the Bachmann forum. The basic response was baggage and rpos would probably sell one a piece to a small audience and realistically would not be enough to makr molds for. I would imagine Accucraft/AMS thinking is probably the same.

The San Juan Express ran as train 115 and 116 so presumably two complete sets. Coaches as indicated could be added. I think there were only a few palor cars. Probably they had extra baggage but not if any spare RPO cars. The railroad was trying to shove as much lcl and mail onto Rio Grande Motoways so they could justify getting rid of the narrow gauge so minimal backup and any breakdown would go to truck.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a link to a site that has pictures of a number of different D&RGW narrow gauge passenger cars. There are six parlor cars, of several different vintages, on the list, not just the ones associated with the San Juan.

http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/DRGW-NG.htm

Chuck


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks for the link. Real interesting. 

I also forgot that besides the San Juan Express that the Rio Grande also ran the Shavano and that used a baggage, rpo, coach and palor as well. 

So not a lot of extra equipment around to fill in.


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

rio grande models is still trading , he owns a garden centre and that takes a lot of his time so he has scaled his activities back and has not produced anything new for a while

but,,,anything you see on his site can still be ordered although add 20% to the prices as costs have risen
i picked up 7 sets of sides just after christmas and they are very well made, the coach 300 and 292 can also be ordered with an extra window where they would have been on some early cars

and hopefully this year i will be having 3 of the larger stock car kits made

if anyone wants anything drop me an email and i will let him know


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

TLotis,
I am not planning to get to York this year, but will make the Denver convention.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Chris Scott said:


> Pete, Zubi;
> Ok, you're right. But wasn't the original deal buy 4 for $2500 and get one free, making it $625 each with one free?
> 
> That would make this 4 for $3000 or $750 each with one free.


Chris, This is the first time I hear of such a deal. There may have been a small discount, a few percent... Accucraft does not discount brass much (except for the long caboose which was heavily discounted). Both San Juan and the bumble bee sets are first class products made in quite a limited number, they should keep their value or increase as there are more and more locomotives to pull them! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

i managed to pick up a 6 car set,, ( 2 baggage) in ones and twos
they are very nice models and well worth saving up for,,,

the san juan sometimes ran with quite a few more cars,, sometimes two or three baggage cars and even a couple of the smaller plastic ams type car, so 6 7 or 8 consists seem to have been run often

i always keep my eye out for the brass cars,, they rarely go for less than 400 dollars but i would expect to pick up a used one for this
it just depends who wants it bad enough


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## Mudhen Matt (Feb 11, 2015)

Daveyb,
I am building a model of the Gunnison Plow and I know Dave made a kit. I really only need the plow. Do you have Dave's contact information or could you relay the information to him?

Thanks,
Matt


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

Ted,

Just to add some info (I rarely post on MLS anymore, but I still lurk...)

David is doing fine and well (I visited him last month). His "day job" is commanding a lot of his attention, but you can still email him and I know he does kits from time to time. One of the main issues was the massive increase in costs for the laser work in the UK. As I recall, a few years back we watched the priced of the cut sides almost double in price in just over 6 months. 

Recently he has done another run of car sides for those interested, but he did not broadcast this - it was an "email" affair. I also know he has done quite a bit of custom building for people enquiring about his kits offered as RTR models. 

Jon at EMW has, maybe, a few last kits (that was as of the last BTS), but overall no, he no longer stocks them to my knowledge. 

I also know that David has been talking to GAL (GAL jumped on the band wagon _LONG_ after David, myself, and Matt Brown worked out and refined the process and steps to cut useable replacement sides.) I believe that David is now sharing some of the plans with Alan - though I may have misunderstood this. 

As to the brass sets - there seems to be 1 or 2 complete sets for auction at any given time, though less so for broken up sets selling individual cars. Dr. Rivet and Garratt are correct - ebay seems to have a steady trickle of San Jaun sets theses days. 

As to AMS producing more - I know several years ago there was talk of a full baggage car and possible an RPO to follow - but the folks at Accucraft that were championing that product line left the company a few years ago, so I would assume the plan is at least in a coma, if not outright dead. (At no time would anyone talk about an AMS branded Parlor or Observation. As three versions were already available in brass, the mindset was produce the other cars individually in plastic, but continue to offer Parlor cars as a "special" item in brass only.)

Hope this helps.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Good to see ya PD.


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

Mudhen Matt said:


> Daveyb,
> I am building a model of the Gunnison Plow and I know Dave made a kit. I really only need the plow. Do you have Dave's contact information or could you relay the information to him?
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt



matt will email him tonight and get back to you

daveyb


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

Mudhen Matt said:


> Daveyb,
> I am building a model of the Gunnison Plow and I know Dave made a kit. I really only need the plow. Do you have Dave's contact information or could you relay the information to him?
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt



matt,, email me at [email protected]

spoken to him,, the plough is an etch kit which you have to solder together

he may have one knocking about so he is going to look for it

it could take him a week or two,

and he would rather all requests go through me,,,, at above addy

daveyb


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I also know that David has been talking to GAL (GAL jumped on the band wagon _LONG_ after David, myself, and Matt Brown worked out and refined the process and steps to cut useable replacement sides.)


PD,
Thanks for the info.

G.A.L. got into Fn3 coach sides when I asked for some East Broad Top coaches. I made the plans and together we figured out how to make them fit. There is a much smaller market for EBT stuff, so it didn't seem worth asking a UK supplier to get involved.

After that, G.A.L. worked with other modellers to make some D&RGW coaches, which are pictured on the website. http://www.thegalline.com/passengerequ30.html










We talked about making a closed vestibule coach once. It isn't too difficult.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

To whomever purchased the set of 5 Brass Accucraft San Juan D&RGW coaches ($2,999.) on eBay - Hope you see this post. IF anyone knows the buyer you might pass along this info.



> eBay Listing;
> Accucraft/AMS D&RGW SAN JUAN Passenger Cars, Complete Set of 5, Brass Set
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Accucraft-AMS-D-RGW-SAN-JUAN-Passenger-Cars-Complete-Set-of-5-Brass-/121564797488?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c4dd39a30


If the Drumhead on the end of the Parlor Car does not look like the picture below, you can get a replacement from Accucraft that does look like it. The original Drumhead was poor quality so they made/offered a replacement (Accucraft E-Store Listing link.) 
 http://www.accucraftestore.com/index.php?categoryID=93 (top of page)


> DRUMHEAD SAN JUAN STYLE
> AP-11460 ACCUCRAFT TRAINS
> Drumhead San Juan Style
> Price: $79.00 each


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

There was a Parlor or passenger car on the G Scale Swap & Shop on Facebook a month or so ago.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

There is another 4 car brass set on eBay now for $2,495. 8 days to go...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRASS-Accucraft-D-RGW-San-Juan-4-Car-Set-1-20-3-NR-/201290368354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eddd74562

Andrew


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Garratt said:


> There is another 4 car brass set on eBay now for $2,495. 8 days to go...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BRASS-Accuc...354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eddd74562
> 
> Andrew


I don't understand these sellers. The description says "As usual - NO RE$ERVE!! 

Yet the auction says "Starting bid: US $2,495.00"

Can someone enlighten me as to the difference between a 'starting bid' and a 'reserve' ?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Pete, you could have a start bid of $$2,495.00 with hidden reserve of $3,000.00 
or a start bid of $1 and reserve of $2,495 which just creates a huge 'no mans land' of delusion.
A bit like chasing rainbows... a complete waste of time.

The start bid may have to be a certain amount in regard to the reserve. I'm not sure of eBays specific requirements of setting reserve prices.
Above reserve if set, is a binding contract between seller and buyer to make the transaction. 

Andrew


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Garratt said:


> Pete, you could have a start bid of $$2,495.00 with hidden reserve of $3,000.00
> or a start bid of $1 and reserve of $2,495 which just creates a huge 'no mans land' of delusion.
> A bit like chasing rainbows... a complete waste of time.
> 
> ...


Well, if the guy says "No Reserve" then I expect that a $10 bid will be acceptable. Starting bid $2495 = a reserve of minimum $2495.

Ebay is a ridiculous place, where people make up their own definitions for ordinary words. No wonder I stay away!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Pete, they sell houses the same. The auctioneer p u s s y foots around in kiddyland to get things rolling.
I have even seen people bid against themselves to a higher price in the flurry of it all. LOL
All meaningless though if under the hidden reserve price.
Auctions are a weird thing, relying on haste and emotions. The astute bidder swoops in at the last call with his buy price already determined in advance.

Andrew


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