# Some Radio Recommendations?



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok this weekend I was goign to go to Ron's live steam-up but as I got to thinking about it I decided not to. It's beena several months since the Ruby has been out of the workshop for a run. It needs some repairs since the pony truck the original owner glued on fell off. I've also purchased larger cylinders for it and have a RC servo bracket coming for it. So needing all that work and with not enough time in the week to complete it I decided to stay home. 

Having said all that with the RC servo bracket on teh way I'm now going to need a radio and transmitter. I've heard stories of some cheap 2.4 mhz units? A quick search on Ebay gave me a bunch of hits but not what I would consider cheap at $100 to $600 for a radio. I remember folks talking about Spektrum transmitters and then there has been some discussion on E-flite brand radios? There were of course a bunch of cheaper wheel radios but I do not think that translates well into a live steam controller? I used to play with electric RC cars and boats so I understand some of the technology but it is all outdated by 15 years now. 2.4 mhz was not around back then. Futaba was a key player then. Are they still? Aristocraft marketed the Hitec brand and I see they are still around. KO/Propo seems to still be a choice? What else is there?

So are 2 channels enough? 
What brand should I be looking for?
and 2.4 is what is preffered now correct?

Any other questions I'm not thinking clearly on this morning?

Heading for my second cup of coffee...

Chas


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## lvmosher (Jan 2, 2008)

Every one around my area uses the Spectrum radio....But Roundhouse ships with the e-flight stuff. Both are 2.4. I'd go for the $200 Spectrum with the fancier configuration capability


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Only use the newer 2.4 gHz stuff. The old 27 or 75 mHz band stuff is so prone to glitching that "control" is something of a misnomer. Check Tower Hobbies' web site. I was on there a while back and saw some pretty good deals. (I forget the exact prices, but cheaper than the older stuff.) 

As for channels, you'll only need two on the Ruby--one for speed and one for direction. I suppose if you were adventurous, you could put one on the burner, too, though that's rather uncommon. (Glitching issues have made it impractical in the past.) Use the micro servos to control the loco, which will be an added expense. I get the cheap $13 ones, and they've held up well enough for me. There were at one point a few guys selling servo-mounting brackets for the Ruby. I haven't seen them advertised in a while, but they may be in SitG. I haven't looked recently. 

If you can swing it, though, get a radio with more channel capability. That way you've got the extra room if you (a) add more functions to the Ruby such as lights, etc., (b) buy a new steamer with more controls, or (c) ever want to use it with some of the compatible electric mouse controls for your sparkies. From what I saw in terms of pricing, the difference from 2 channels to 5 wasn't anywhere near what it used to be. 

Later, 

K


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## lvst4evr (Feb 28, 2008)

All you need is a SPEKTRUM DX-5E system! Standard price almost everywhere is $99.00 complete with transmitter & receiver! I've got one installed in my IDA with Jason Kovac's 1/2" cylinders & it's a SUPER combo!!! Jim


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Locos with Ruby type cylinders which switch between inside/outside admission for reversal need only 1 channel hooked up to the reverser. I run all my "Ruby" type engines this way (Accucraft Shay, Betsy, Forney). Reverser and throttle are just 2 valves in series. This does not work for locos with Stephenson/Walschaerts gear. They need 2 servos - one for the Johnson bar, one for the throttle. Fitting one servo into a Ruby is easier. There is a company out there which sells even cheaper 2.4GHz systems. 
http://www.hobbypartz.com/exrc62tr.html 
They also carry ridiculously cheap servos. One of our live steamers has one of these cheapies (Radio + Servos) and is very happy with it They are installed in a scratch built Garrat in places, where it gets quite hot. 
Regards


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I would recommend the Planet Twister 5 channel. They are brilliant, and will work inside dummy metal water tanks. But, I have no idea where to get them in the USA. 

For a 2.4 GHz system at less than US$50 for a TX and RX, I'd go for the 6 channel EXCEED from Hobypartz. Henner has the link above. 
This is another brand name for the same thing also sold as Hobby King, CopterX, Turborix etc. 
I have sold dozens of them for both Live Steam and battery R/C. 
The only drawback is you will need to set up the computer program to access servo reversing. 
If you don't like that idea there is also E-Sky at reasonable prices. They have switches on the TX for servo reversing.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd go with a Spektrum. Even if you only have a Ruby right now, you'll probably get other locos later. The Spektrum will give you room to grow.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

I use a Spektrum DX6. It works perfect. Never had a problem with it.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I cannot speak of the Spektrum DX6i as I have only had experience with one set and that was just for testing compatibility with my battery R/C ESC's. 
I do have experience with the DX5e and find them OK. But extra RX's are expensive when compared to the cheaper brands. 
Also I have had a number of AR500 RX failures. Sometimes they just stop working. Turn them off and an hour later they start working again. Others have simply failed.


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

My Roundhouse Lady Anne came with a standard 27mhz control which glitched terribly. I substituted a Spektrum DX6 and it worked perfectly. When I bought my K28, I installed Spektrum again and have never looked back. If I buy any other locos, I will install Spektrum in them as well.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Spectrum is your best bet for a radio


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Any thoughts on a Spectrum DX2? Apparently designed as a car controller, but I know a steamer who got a DX5 as part of a package deal, so now he X2 is surplus.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Another vote on the Dx6! 

I have it controlling 3 locos. I upgraded the battery to a larger MiAh and had Dave Rose upgrade the voltage regulator. Now it runs for a long time. Usually 1 charge on the transmitter for a good day or two of running. I get all my other parts from Servo City. 

The DX6 you can take the top cover off and remove the springs on the stocks and install the brass part to give you a hold on both sticks. That way they come flop around ot center if you let go. 


Rons was a good meet - would of been nice to see you there.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason, Spent the weekend with family and got a lot accomplished (none train related) so it was not a total loss. I'm building up some "me" time in the family bank so it's all good. School and lodge starts up soon so it was early fall cleaning in the kids rooms. Eventually I'll make a "local" steamup. 

So the Spektrum Dx6i is going to run me about $200 for the first TX/Rx combination. The Dx5 is a bit cheaper but it seems like I'm reading they are not compatible? The Dx6i won;t control the Rx from the Dx5? I'm a little lost on that? Are any of the 2.4 brand compatible with each other? If I get an Exceed (or one of the other "off" brands) will the Spektrum TX's control the other brand Rx's? Sort of like the older 75 mhz systems would? 

Thanks for the help so far guys! Sounds like the Spektrum is the way to go? 

Chas


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By wchasr on 24 Aug 2010 06:04 AM 
SNIP

So the Spektrum Dx6i is going to run me about $200 for the first TX/Rx combination. The Dx5 is a bit cheaper but it seems like I'm reading they are not compatible? The Dx6i won;t control the Rx from the Dx5? I'm a little lost on that?
SNIP
Chas 


*To the best of my knowledge the DX6i will not work DSM2 RX's and the DX5e will not work non DSM2 RX's.*


Posted By wchasr on 24 Aug 2010 06:04 AM 
SNIP

Are any of the 2.4 brand compatible with each other? If I get an Exceed (or one of the other "off" brands) will the Spektrum TX's control the other brand Rx's? Sort of like the older 75 mhz systems would? 

SNIP
Chas 


The short answer is NO. Two different brands will work not with each other.[/b]*

*The capabilities of the low cost Park Flyer radios such as Spektrum and (for example) EXCEED are limited when compared to more capable systems such as the DX6i and DX7. But they are nonetheless quite capable of reliably controlling Live Steam locos.
In my opinion the Spektrum DX5e radios are overpriced when compared to the other low cost Park Flyer systems. Especially the RX's sold separately. The extra EXCEED RX's are around US$14 each compared to US$50 for "genuine" Spektrum RX's.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

OK next question. 
How does one split up one quote so that the two subjects can be answered separately in the same posting with the split quotes above each reply?


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 24 Aug 2010 06:17 AM 

*To the best of my knowledge the DX6i will not work DSM2 RX's and the DX5e will not work non DSM2 RX's.*






Not quite right Tony ... The DX6i will work with DSM2. There is an older DX6 that only works with DSM (not the same as DSM2).

I own both the DX6i and DX5e and use them interchangeably on a daily basis. Both the DX6i and DX5e work with all of the standard Spektrum DSM2 receivers. They will not work with other brands (or non DSM2 technology). 


The difference between the two is the DX6i has the capability to store 10 different "models". Each model, a different airplane, helicopter, or live steam train, can have it own settings for servo travel and other things that are difficult to adjust in the mechanical world, but simple in electronics. (Also the DX6i has 6 channels, the DX5e only 5). So the DX6i is great for live steamers using servos. 

Some R/C controls for trains, such as the RailBoss and Beltrol store unique settings in the receiver of the loco, not in the transmitter. These settings would be for speed matching locos for double-heading, setting start voltages, or maximum voltages to limit speed when kids are in control. So in this case, the DX5e is sufficient (it is also lower cost, and lighter weight). The transmitter is only $50, and off-market DSM2 receivers can be had for $12-$19.

Both the DX6i and the DX5e will work on the RailBoss and Beltrol systems. So if you're a live steamer, use your DX6i for a battery powered sparky in between steam-ups, or for the kids to play with.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

OK. 

Thanks Del. 
I stand corrected.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

OK next question. 
How does one split up one quote so that the two subjects can be answered separately in the same posting with the split quotes above each reply?The short answer is to use the Quick Reply box at the bottom of the page. 

Method 1: Highlight what you wish to quote, scroll to the bottom of the page (careful not to click in the page or you'll "de-highlight") and click the "Quote" button. Type your reply after the closing quote-tag. Repeat for second item you wish to quote. 

Method 2: Same as Method 1 except you click the "Quote" button first, then copy and paste what you wish to quote between the tags. 

Use whichever method is easiest for you. To be honest, the only time I use the Full Reply page is if I wish to insert emoticons, images, or a link. If I want to quote something and also insert the aforementioned stuff, I use the Quick Reply to create the post, then copy the whole thing and paste it into the Full Reply page. I find it far easier to deal with quoting material using this method.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dwight. 

Let me see if I understand that. 

Method 1: Highlight what you wish to quote, scroll to the bottom of the page (careful not to click in the page or you'll "de-highlight") and click the "Quote" button. Type your reply after the closing quote-tag. Repeat for second item you wish to quote. 

Well, that worked. 

Method 2: Same as Method 1 except you click the "Quote" button first, then copy and paste what you wish to quote between the tags. 

.......and so did that. 

Well it did until I mucked it up trying to edit it.

Brilliant. Now I can do it like the big boys. 

But it does lead to another question.

How do make the quote field have a background colour like it does when you click quote normally?


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

So it sounds like the system most everyone else is using is the Spektrum. Generally the DX6i but occaisionally the DX5 as well. The DX6i giving some more functionality in terms of remembering different "models" and such. Still a bit pricier than I'd hoped for a simple Ruby conversion but...there it is. At this point I CAN justify the money on a bit better radio...just need to budget for it I suppose. Roughly $200 with no servos is the pricing I'm seeing most every where I can find them. From the Spektrum website they list a hobby shop as dealers in my area that has long since closed. Well either that or moved? I've not been able to find them on my last two trips west to that city? Used to be three hobby shops out there and now one or none? 

So in re-reading the thread so I can at least try to completely understand I could get the Spektrum DX6i and then get the cheaper recievers and "bind" them to the DX6i as long as they are DSM2 types? Any warnings buying used? Of course going to need a battery pack and on/off switch it sounds like? 

My wants of course exceed my needs at this point. I want to play with my trains but my needs neccesitate other things. Work, family, etc. 

Thanks for the short tutorial on the "quoting" as well! 

Chas


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Chas did you get my PM?


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes I did thanks Jason!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

How do make the quote field have a background colour like it does when you click quote normally?The forum software controls the background color Tony - it isn't user controllable. Posts alternate between white and light grey backgrounds, and the quoted text uses the same light grey. On a post with a white background, it contrasts - on the light grey background it doesn't.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dwight.


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

If you are starting from scratch, I would go with the newest Spectrum. I've got a DX6 and have 6 models bound, including a sailboat. If you plan to install a whistle or other option which requires a servo, more than 2 channels are needed. 

If you buy a 2nd hand Spectrum, check the size of the battery. Originally they came with a 600ma battery pack and with trains, you go through that pretty quickly. I built up a pack of Nickel Metal Hydride AA batteries which have a combined rating of 3200ma. The more powerful battery pack gives you about 4 hours of run time before a charge is required. Because the Nickel Metal Hydride batteries don't develop a memory, you can recharge them at any time without going through the recycling process to clear the memory. Some of the newer Spectrum models come with an upgraded battery.

Good luck.

Will


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I realize this is the live steam forum, but as a side note to battery power folks who may also be following this ... Transmitter batteries can easily last you for weeks when operating with the RailBoss. You can turn off the transmitter while operating continuously, and then just switch it back on when you need to do switching. Emergency stops can still be executed fairly fast: switch on the Tx, wait for re-link (about 2-3 seconds for Spektrum Rx's), then command the stop.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 26 Aug 2010 11:19 AM 
I realize this is the live steam forum, but as a side note to battery power folks who may also be following this ... Transmitter batteries can easily last you for weeks when operating with the RailBoss. You can turn off the transmitter while operating continuously, and then just switch it back on when you need to do switching. Emergency stops can still be executed fairly fast: switch on the Tx, wait for re-link (about 2-3 seconds for Spektrum Rx's), then command the stop. You can do the same thing with the Spektrum transmitters. You need to select channels which memorize the last setting (not e.g. a fail safe throttle). I use this feature all the time when running continuously on our portable track. I also replaced the voltage regulators in my transmitter (described somewhere in this forum) which gives me more run time than I can use.
Regards


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

Question: if you shut the power down on your transmitter, presuming you have set your throttle to shut down on loss of power, how do you keep your loco running. I have a throttle only servo on a coal fired Lady Anne to handle grades in my garden layout. When I shut the power down, for whatever reason, the radio instructs the servo to turn the steam regulator OFF! To have it set to do otherwise defeats the purpose of a failsafe setting. That's what "Failsafe" means. Likewise for planes and boats as the servos return to your preset position, presumably to give you the best chance to retrieve your model safely. Other than convenience, there is no justification to set them to do otherwise on loss of transmitter power.

Emergency stops often require immediate attention, such as with a runaway loco. As an example, I had a non-RC Aster K4 run away after a coupler broke dropping 40 pounds of cars and try to fly. Had I run as Del suggested, in this situation there would not have been sufficient time to turn the transmitter on and wait for it to bind before the locomotive went airborne.

Bigger batteries are better.

If I'm wrong, please explain.

Regarding replacing the voltage regulator, that immediately voids your warranty, so it isn't a freebe.

Regards,

Will


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By thumper on 26 Aug 2010 02:30 PM 
...

Emergency stops often require immediate attention, such as with a runaway loco. As an example, I had a non-RC Aster K4 run away after a coupler broke dropping 40 pounds of cars and try to fly. Had I run as Del suggested, in this situation there would not have been sufficient time to turn the transmitter on and wait for it to bind before the locomotive went airborne ...


Certainly there is a risk associated with turning of the Tx. Each person needs to evaluate the threat of operating this way on their layout. On mine, running battery power, about the worst thing that ever happens is a derailment, resulting in dragging equipment for a couple of seconds. Even if the Tx is on, if it isn't in your hands and you aren't paying attention, it really doesn't matter anyway. I assume live steamers are maintaining control at all times though. More things to be watching, and shorter run times than battery power.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By thumper on 26 Aug 2010 02:30 PM 
Question: if you shut the power down on your transmitter, presuming you have set your throttle to shut down on loss of power, how do you keep your loco running. I have a throttle only servo on a coal fired Lady Anne to handle grades in my garden layout. When I shut the power down, for whatever reason, the radio instructs the servo to turn the steam regulator OFF! To have it set to do otherwise defeats the purpose of a failsafe setting. That's what "Failsafe" means. ... 
Bigger batteries are better.

If I'm wrong, please explain.

Regarding replacing the voltage regulator, that immediately voids your warranty, so it isn't a freebe.

Regards,

Will
Unfortunately you can't have both. Either TX shutdown or fail safe. When I "run" my Accucraft Shay on the portable track, I can always stop it fast enough by turning on the transmitter with the throttle setting at "0". My 4-4-0 runs with the transmitter permanently "on" and throttle fail safe enabled, as it is way too fast to be stopped in an emergency. 


The guys from East Devil's Hill (EDH - Eric, David ,Henner) never care about warranty. As soon as they buy something, they take it apart and/or modify it







. As little boys we probably all disassembled clocks to see what is inside.
Regards


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been selling a lot of Planet Twister 2.4 Ghz 5 channel park flyer radios to live steamers this year. A system not available in the USA as far as I know. 
I am not sure whether or not it has a failsafe but so far I have not heard any negative comments. 
What I can tell you is the system is FHSS and the RX will work perfectly well with plenty of range fully enclosed inside a dummy metal water tank and inside the cab with no antenna exposed. 
The TX uses four AA dry cells, or rechargables, that seem to last for ages. 
Certainly much more than four hours. 
It has a voltmeter built in that is accurate.


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

I am overhauling an aged Lady Anne which has an older 27 megahertz radio system in it. I am planning to install a digital system, but I wonder whether I need to get you servos and rebuild inside the cab also. 

Are servos universal? it makes sense that they would be, but a lot of things that don't make sense happens every day.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

The old servos should work. the worst case is that you will need new connectors for them but all connectors for the past 20 years or so are the current standard and should work without modification.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Make sure to get something programable with a bare minimum of throw adjustment. This will allow you to actually get the travel you require, not more, not less. I have to respectfully disagree with the oppinion to only put a servo on the reverser, this will not allow you to compensate for even tiny grades. It is great fun to vary the speed dependant upon what you are pulling or doing. Why not use a Futaba, the highest quality system available. I have converted 8 lococs to this system and never had a single issue. I have been using their very reasonably priced high torque micro S3114 servos. They fit nicely and are reliable and powerful. 

Dave


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By cocobear1313 on 13 Nov 2012 06:50 AM 
Make sure to get something programable with a bare minimum of throw adjustment. This will allow you to actually get the travel you require, not more, not less. I have to respectfully disagree with the oppinion to only put a servo on the reverser, this will not allow you to compensate for even tiny grades. It is great fun to vary the speed dependant upon what you are pulling or doing. Why not use a Futaba, the highest quality system available. I have converted 8 lococs to this system and never had a single issue. I have been using their very reasonably priced high torque micro S3114 servos. They fit nicely and are reliable and powerful. 

Dave Dave,
now I have to partially disagree with you: Accucraft locos like the Ruby, Forney, Shay can be controlled by moving the Johnson bar only. The reverser in these locos acts like a 2 way throttle. There is no notching up. Adding the real throttle just puts 2 valves in series. My scratch built engines are all built this way and I can control speed and direction very well with one servo. In fact, if you look at the video in Eric's thread "Mountain Division" you will see my Betsy tackling a 10% grade with a heavy load up and down without problems, using only "Johnson" bar control. This does not work with locos which have Stephenson or Walschaerts gear (e.g. Accucraft 4-4-0); here you need indeed 2 servos.
Regards


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Vance,

I have a Lady Anne which came with standard analog servo control. When I changed to digital control, I bought a Spektrum DX6 radio control system. On the loco, all I had to do was install the new receiver. I plugged in the existing servos and they worked just fine.


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the replies, everyone! I'll head down to the RC car/plane shop and see about dropping in a digital RX/TX.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Vance, If you haven't already bought something you can come over to my house and we could plug your servos into one of my recievers to see if they work.


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