# Interesting large scale item from Bachmann



## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

An Fn3 vesrsion of the gas mechanical? 

http://www.45mm.jp/page175.html


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2008)

that would be a nice addition...not so Freakin' huge as the 45tonner...but plenty of room under the hood for the Batteries! 

cale


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Cale: 

Thanks for posting this on the Bachmann forum, for some reason, I can no longer post there (strange time out message.....).


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I LIKE it!


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 07/05/2008 2:03 PM
Cale: 
Thanks for posting this on the Bachmann forum, for some reason, I can no longer post there (strange time out message.....). 




They screwed up that forum just fine! Everytime I would like to post there, I first have to delete any previous Bachmann cookies then log out and log back in. Every friggin' time!  I noticed that postings are way down since the update. 

-Brian


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2008)

Garrett...thanks for the information to post...I get those messages most times, I was really surprised it actually took.....seems Durango Dan is also paying attn! 
http://120pointme.blogspot.com/ 
As mentioned on LSC, I'd buy one of these, I've loved the look in On30 since I saw it the first time....now if maybe we could get a Fn3 Forney....and that Railbus is pretty sweet as well...Hey Bachmann, you listening? 
Maybe I don't need to go Euro 
cale/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By calenelson on 07/05/2008 3:50 PM
Garrett...thanks for the information to post...I get those messages most times, I was really surprised it actually took.....seems Durango Dan is also paying attn! 
http://120pointme.blogspot.com/ 
As mentioned on LSC, I'd buy one of these, I've loved the look in On30 since I saw it the first time....now if maybe we could get a Fn3 Forney....and that Railbus is pretty sweet as well...Hey Bachmann, you listening? 
Maybe I don't need to go Euro 
cale/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif" border=0>







Yeah, note the two posters (pesters) that got credit Cale..... 

The On30 railbus and OUTSIDE frame 4-4-0 have me wondering if I did the right thing by selling my On30 collection earlier this week?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Wonder how long it will be before someone puts two back to back and makes a centercab out of them. 

It's ugly, that's for sure, which is not necessarily a bad thing... but it's no show stopper. Maybe the caboose is this year's big thing.... assuming it appears. 

Matthew (OV)


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Nice alignment between front and rear counterweights. 
Nice foam coupler mounting. 
Part of the new "universal" nmra coupler standard? 
Howard and his paid consultant have been busy! 
Wonder if the "Ames Super Socket" is the new and improved "folded over itself" version. 
Nice tall hood to allow for the "mandated" air clearance above said socket...... 

But I am REALLY enamoured of the brush work on those counterweights. 
That is really nice stuff!


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## Wendell Hanks (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, here's the $50 question: Whose layout is the backdrop for the posting of the new B'mann yard switcher? 
Is the layout also the location for the human that is conducting pre-distribution testing? 
Perhaps photos alone were the concern -- not testing the product prior to offering it for sale. 

Any insights from readers who may actually know if t his product's photo shoot was campanion to actually testing it??? 

I doubt that the layout shoot was at Dave Goodson's home. 

Wendell 

Wendell


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll definitely be buying several of those Davenports in Large Scale, as well as several of the new On30 models that they have coming out. It appears that Bachmann will be getting most of my train money this year.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Wendell Hanks on 07/05/2008 10:59 PM
OK, here's the $50 question: Whose layout is the backdrop for the posting of the new B'mann yard switcher? 
Is the layout also the location for the human that is conducting pre-distribution testing? 
Perhaps photos alone were the concern -- not testing the product prior to offering it for sale. 
Any insights from readers who may actually know if t his product's photo shoot was campanion to actually testing it??? 
I doubt that the layout shoot was at Dave Goodson's home. 
Wendell 
Wendell







It appears to be the layout of the dealer in Japan based on other photos on his site (no other facts to base this on).


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2008)

Point not yet mentioned: 
This (if it is real and it is coming to America) would make an Ideal Starter Set Locomotive. Toss in a few V Dumps and they are on the way...and now to convince those in Philly who never listen to us to sell them from the Home Depot, etc...! 
Can't proclaim enough that I hope it does not have some stupid socket in it! 
Remember KISS: /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/kiss.gif 
Keep It Simple Stanley !


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Durango Dan has more information up: Apparently it has a whole new DCC arrangement ... he's got some technical info too. 

http://120pointme.blogspot.com/ 

Matthew (OV)


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice alignment? check out the black one at the bottom of the JP site. Looks like the thing is about to lock up. 

Well, the had to do something with all those upgraded counterweights removed from the Kay. 


And, are they really going to put a 16 volt HO 1 amp decoder in a "G" scale loco. I already know what happens when you set that 1 amp decoder on track powered by an LGB 24 volt supply. 

And, a small two axle loco without electrical pickup sliders? 


Strike three. 

B0B


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Decoder? I don't have anything to decode. Sliders? I'm not into skating anyway. As the TOC would say; "Cut 'n Throw". It's going to be battery powered at my house. Should make for a nice and easy conversion.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, the On30 one comes standard with a decoder, so it makes sense. 

My Bachmann Porters, sans skates, do not have pickup problems.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Why Davenport? I think it's a cute loco BUT it still looks more like the GE photos and drawings I have other than the hood end or rather the radiator. Depending on price I may get one. 

Chas


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm......another diseasal. (*Sigh) Oh well, at least it's more palatable than that 45 ton monstrosity! Hey, it's a box! So I'm predjudiced, sue me! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Chas, _all_ diesels look alike.  

Seriously, I suspect this one was an easy choice because it was (a) small, and (b) already in their computers in On30. Simple to just enlarge the plans and do some minor tweaking. 

As to its perceived quality, presuppositions based solely on photos and published specs (source?) are good for giving us things to eventually look for, but are of themselves physically demonstrative of nothing. For instance, if only one axle is powered, then the play in the siderods could account for the slightly askew counterweights shown in one photo. Are the axles equalized? If so, then electrical pick-up will be fine without sliders, as you'll always have two points of contact. As for the internal electronics, I'll wait until I see what's really "under the hood." 

Personally, even though I'm not a diesel person, I'm looking forward to see this one in the flesh. I think it's got good potential as a "throw it on the tracks and run it" loco. 

Later, 

K


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 07/06/2008 7:13 PM
Well, the On30 one comes standard with a decoder, so it makes sense. 
My Bachmann Porters, sans skates, do not have pickup problems.




If you have an older Porter with the pivoted front axle, you have 3-point suspension, and the contacts work. 
However, later "stiff" chassis (with chuff contacts on front axle) do tend to be a bit reluctant to operate on unever track, dirty track, and some turnouts. 

Of course, the installation of a decoder solves all those problems, right?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I've seriosly considered adding skates to my saddletanker to solve this issue


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 07/07/2008 12:24 PM
I've seriosly considered adding skates to my saddletanker to solve this issue



skip the skates-toss in 14.4v no p/u problems anymore/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue2.gif


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'd imagine you could get away with less than 14.4, too, depending on the needs of the control circuitry. If those locos ever got above 10 mph in normal operation, I'd be shocked and amazed. I'd think a 7.2 or 8.4v NiCad (or NiMH) pack and something like Del's Critter Control would be ideal for this little guy. I did one of the original B'mann 0-4-0s with I think a whopping 9.6 volts, only because that's what was needed as a minimum for the control circuit. For yard switching, it's quite ample. 

Later, 

K


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Of course, the installation of a decoder solves all those problems, right? 


well actually yes, it can. I have uneven track, and loads of didty track and my porters work just fine. In fact because they are small I generally use them for my clinics which demonstrate a variety of signal and power approaches. 

In the large scale community we are fortunate that there are a lot of good methods for powering and operating an outdoor layout. 

Stan Ames


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

Stan the Man!! 

So - since you have the scoop - what's the story? This is a new socket, not the one in the K-27? 

PD


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 07/07/2008 1:26 PM
I'd imagine you could get away with less than 14.4, too, depending on the needs of the control circuitry. If those locos ever got above 10 mph in normal operation, I'd be shocked and amazed. I'd think a 7.2 or 8.4v NiCad (or NiMH) pack and something like Del's Critter Control would be ideal for this little guy. I did one of the original B'mann 0-4-0s with I think a whopping 9.6 volts, only because that's what was needed as a minimum for the control circuit. For yard switching, it's quite ample. 
Later, 
K



agree totally! just mentioned that figure for the porter, it's what I am doing with my latest RCS/Sierra install...another for instance; my Mack runs like a mad-dog at 9.6v, but the kids love it! Look at the 7/8 guys doing their stuff with 4.8v... 
I agree the Critter Control seems matched above for this Davenport (if we get it?)...can I go ahead and pre-order?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

just in: 
Bachmann 0-4-0 
And though information on the new Side Rod Gas Mechanical is still hard to come by, we here at 1:20.me have another piece of the puzzle for you today. 
As of July 7th, sources state that these engines are on sale in Japan, and in fact, making their way home with modelers. From news passed to us, word is that this new engine measures just over 13 centimeters in width. As a point of reference, that is wider than an Accucraft passenger car. 

above from Durango Dan..... 

_____________________________________________________________________ 
my 45tonner comes in just over 14cm wide?! could be a big little engine? 
cale


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

so does this page: 
http://www.45mm.jp/page003.html 
list prices for the items shown? if so, in what currency? 
0-4-0 Side Rod Gas-Mechanicalã€€ ã€€ã€€ã€€ã€€ï¼'ï¼"ï¼Œï¼–ï¼�ï¼�

so what is that in USD?


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By calenelson on 07/07/2008 2:26 PM
Posted By East Broad Top on 07/07/2008 1:26 PM 
I'd imagine you could get away with less than 14.4, too, depending on the needs of the control circuitry. If those locos ever got above 10 mph in normal operation, I'd be shocked and amazed. I'd think a 7.2 or 8.4v NiCad (or NiMH) pack and something like Del's Critter Control would be ideal for this little guy. I did one of the original B'mann 0-4-0s with I think a whopping 9.6 volts, only because that's what was needed as a minimum for the control circuit. For yard switching, it's quite ample. 
Later, 
K

agree totally! just mentioned that figure for the porter, it's what I am doing with my latest RCS/Sierra install...another for instance; my Mack runs like a mad-dog at 9.6v, but the kids love it! Look at the 7/8 guys doing their stuff with 4.8v... 
I agree the Critter Control seems matched above for this Davenport (if we get it?)...can I go ahead and pre-order?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif" border=0>




Kevin - I am in the process of converting an LGB diesel switcher to battery power. It will have 12V, 1500mah NiMh battery pack, and the Enhanced Critter Control. I don't need automation for this one, but the Enhanced version has direction lighting, which I will need since I tossed all of the original circuitry. Looks like this Davenport would be even roomier than the LGB. 

Cale - The Basic and Enhanced Critter Controls have been shipping for something like two years now. The new "Simple" Critter Control is awaiting parts, which are due in mid August. I just updated the website with all the info on the Simple if you are interested. www.GScaleGraphics.net


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

That's 220.26 USD today accoding to XE.com


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 07/07/2008 2:37 PM 
Cale - The Basic and Enhanced Critter Controls have been shipping for something like two years now. 



Del-funny thing about posting and email...you can't reflect inflection of tone...I was inferring a pre-order of the Davenport, and then how I'd assume your CC would be a great match for said loco. I have long admired your Critter Control, and now I may have a project for one (if this Davenport happens). sry for the kornfuzion /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 

PD-thanks for the currency conversion! 

cale


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By calenelson on 07/07/2008 2:31 PM
just in: 
Bachmann 0-4-0 
And though information on the new Side Rod Gas Mechanical is still hard to come by, we here at 1:20.me have another piece of the puzzle for you today. 
As of July 7th, sources state that these engines are on sale in Japan, and in fact, making their way home with modelers. From news passed to us, word is that this new engine measures just over 13 centimeters in width. As a point of reference, that is wider than an Accucraft passenger car. 

above from Durango Dan..... 
_____________________________________________________________________ 
my 45tonner comes in just over 14cm wide?! could be a big little engine? 
cale




So does this mean Bachmann is following Marklins lead and bailing on the US market??? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/plain.gif 

Just farging wonderfull ... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 07/07/2008 11:35 AM
Chas, _all_ diesels look alike. " 
Later, 
K




Actually, it is a GASoline (petrol) mechanical loco, but still looks like a diesel./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif 

Gasoline....which will make sound install fun, for those who like sound in their locos. 

Maybe a sound chip for an RC model truck from the RC armor source, or maybe even a "goose" chip? This thing should sound more like a 1940s truck (gas motor rev, manual gearbox shifting and transmission whine) than an SD40-2....


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Also, not sure why there is some idea that this is a Japan only loco? 

There is no "Bachmann Japan", and the part numbering follows Bachmann practice and not Liliput/Branchline, etc. It is probably more like: 

a. They will hit the NMRA show next week along with the highside gondola, as per Bachmann's statement last year about releases at larger shows. 

b. Japan is a closer to China than the US in terms of times for shipping. 

Reading the Bachmann board, a, is probably the better option, as posts on the new 30" gauge Brazilian outside frame 4-4-0 were apparently deleted (according to one poster at least) and photos of the busses were removed from the Yahoo list over the weekend. 

Fun stuff!


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

It's all speculation, but I'd bet Dan is stating the obvious...they have it for sale in Japan...they have announced NOTHING for the US.....and pretty much have been silent since the first rumblings of this on Saturday...even going back to the Yahoo Group.....


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

Do we call it "Half Dizzy?"


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Maybe the Bachmann is going to let Japan be the guinea pig this time around. Let them do the testing, fix the bugs, then release it to the US. That would be nice. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif" border=0>" border=0> 
A Japanese TOC? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By calenelson on 07/07/2008 5:24 PM
...they have announced NOTHING for the US.....and pretty much have been silent since the first rumblings of this on Saturday...even going back to the Yahoo Group.....







Silence?  Anaheim is late next week....


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 07/07/2008 5:58 PM 
Posted By calenelson on 07/07/2008 5:24 PM 
...they have announced NOTHING for the US.....and pretty much have been silent since the first rumblings of this on Saturday...even going back to the Yahoo Group.....



Silence? " border=0>" border=0> Anaheim is late next week.... 

yeah, but your avatar is already outta the bag! 

Monday, July 7, 2008 
Update: Updated 
Just a quick update, further communications from Japan now state that the new Bachmann engine's width is closer to 10 centimeters rather than the 13, initially reported here. Furthermore, if these same sources are to be believed, the engine's length rests somewhere close to 20 centimeters. 

It will be interesting to see just how accurate these details prove to be when (or if) Bachmann Industries decides to confirm the existence of the engine. 
Posted by Durango Dan at 1:00 PM


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

FYI, Bachmann acknowledged the existence of said loco, and will be posting photos and specs on their own site in the next day or two. Seems they finally bowed to overwhelming publicity. Yes, it will be available in the US. 

Later, 

K


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 07/07/2008 3:23 PM


It is probably more like: 
a. They will hit the NMRA show next week along with the highside gondola, as per Bachmann's statement last year about releases at larger shows. 

b. Japan is a closer to China than the US in terms of times for shipping. 




http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,6047.0.html


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

if you ever wanted a test of viral marketing 


The Bach-man's post (link above) is really amusing. 

Firstly, it demonstrates they really don't have a clue how the internet and 'social networking' really works. Even if a US-based member hadn't seen the .JP website, a fellow enthusiast in Japan would have emailed someone as soon as he saw one in the stores. If it's out there, then the whole world knows about it immediately. [Good if your name is Hilton and you like attention; Bad if your name is Bach-man and you're trying to keep a secret!] 

Secondly, there's a veiled threat 
And no more peeking! I'm serious- you'll lose something out of your stocking if this keeps up! I really mean it this year!

which I hope is a joke or just another problem with email/message boards where the nuance gets lost. 
_What are they going to do - refuse to sell it to us because we found out a few days early??_


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

Good Call Garrett! 
I'm happy that they came forth with the information, may as well...right? I can understand the hope of introducing at a show...but when it leaks, you may as well step up and acknowledge (which they did this time) and for that alone I am appreciative customer! Looking over some of the sites you posted on LSC of the work of the On30 guys, I'm excited to see what will be done with this Fn3 offering...much like the early bashes of the Rail-truck! 

as for -shame on you for snooping-, it may or may not be a insinuated threat...but if they don't build it and sell it...we can't want it and buy it...and that puts them in the bad spot. People tend to forget that "the Consumer is King!" 

cale


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 07/08/2008 8:12 AM
_What are they going to do - refuse to sell it to us because we found out a few days early??_




Right...I dont think its our fault some dealer posted the pics prematurely and someone over here just happened to find it?  

It also illustrates that once something is found online its only a copy/paste to pandora's box being opened regarding secrets /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've got to believe what people are taking as a "veiled threat" is merely a humorous chiding, nothing more. I'm quite certain that--like my parents did to my sister and me--I'll be "reminding" Suzi with similar warnings over the coming years.  I wouldn't read anything more into it than that. Besides. We all know trains go under the tree, not in the stocking.  

Later, 

K


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I kinda offered my own little chiding back to Mr B, but I think anything in the On30 catalog would and should be offered in large scale, the 2 cylinder Shay, the 2-6-0, the Forney, heck even the little Porters! 

Anyway, This engine would be perfect for my layout but looking at my current roster I'm probably not going to have room for this one, as it is I'm downsizing most of my largest items in favor of my smaller items. As I've already added several HLW Mack based loco-bashes and have no need for another lokie, Oh Well maybe somewhere down the line...I think this one will be around for a while.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

as I said it "may or not be"...personally I don't think so...was it just a few days ago I mentioned Del's Critter Control being a perfect match for this loco then addressed "pre-ordering"...Del thought I was asking about his prod, when in fact I was not....it's REALLY hard to inflect tone via the written word (well at least for me and most I post with)... 

cale


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

That switcher is definitely on my Christmas wish list! And I'm going to be a good boy and not reveal other forthcoming B-stuff I know about. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Go on, fill my stocking with coal! I bet I can find a locomotive to use it in ..... 

Kevin take note: As cute as it is (or isn't!) it ain't no EBT mikado! 

My money is still on the possibility that this isn't "The thing" this year. 

Matthew (OV)


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

My 'veiled threat' was just paranoia about B'mann, who seem to enjoy having battles with their customers. They should read the business books about how to deal with customers and the internet. 

On the positive side, it is nice to see B'mann leveraging its investment by making the same model in two or more scales. Shame we already have a 4-4-0 in Fn3, as their On30 4-4-0 is absolutely gorgeous: 










That railbus is pretty neat too - though I'd prefer EBT's M-3:


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SlateCreek on 07/08/2008 12:10 PM
Kevin take note: As cute as it is (or isn't!) it ain't no EBT mikado! 




_Pretty close to M-4 though!_ 










Posted By SlateCreek on 07/08/2008 12:10 PM
My money is still on the possibility that this isn't "The thing" this year. 





And what 'thing' would that be?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By SlateCreek on 07/08/2008 12:10 PM

Kevin take note: As cute as it is (or isn't!) it ain't no EBT mikado! 





Nah, but it's kinda "close enough" to the M-4 (which didn't arrive on the RR until the 70s) to where I may be tempted. Besides, who knows when the Accucraft mikado will actually become reality. I'm not sure which is worse--Bachmann's "we'll let you know what we're doing when it's on the store shelves" policy, or Accucraft's "We'll let you know what we're doing into the next decade, but when it actually arrives in that time span is a mystery" policy. 

Later, 

K


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 07/08/2008 12:16 PM
My 'veiled threat' was just paranoia about B'mann, who seem to enjoy having battles with their customers. They should read the business books about how to deal with customers and the internet. 
On the positive side, it is nice to see B'mann leveraging its investment by making the same model in two or more scales. Shame we already have a 4-4-0 in Fn3, as their On30 4-4-0 is absolutely gorgeous: 














More great points Pete! 

At first glance I thought my NOS Un-Dec American was close to the On30...not really....that little one is really sharp, as well are the "new paints" in Fn3!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The On30 4-4-0 was the Mount Grenta (SP?) PA locos, which, if memory serves, were the only (excluding Crown Metal built stuff, but that don't count does it?!?!) Americans in 2' gauge built for the domstic-ated market. Would be a bit goofy looking if scaled up for 3' gauge, but then Glover had some such ugly beasts . 

Poking around on the Japanese site was interesting, when I saw their URL, I figured they would have large scale items, and sure enough. And enough poking around would have shown secondhand LGB models on the same layout to kibosh the rumors of this being Bachmann's new test layout. 

I liked the "no peeking" comment too... But maybe make sure you ship all at once and such things do not happen. There are a few vendors in Europe that I know that will leak stuff early even before production, ticking off more than one model maker. 

....and as for the announce when the models hit the market Vs. announce and build it a few years later, Bachmann Europe use the second method. Their narrow gauge Zillertalbahn diesel loco has been known about for almost a couple years, and the Uh class steam took a few years too (and was worth the wait, I have a DR-German occupation version myself). 

But I like this method as it gives you time to save up, but apparently goes against the grain for Americans who like instant gratification? So maybe that is why it is done?


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

"Shame we already have a 4-4-0 in Fn3, as their On30 4-4-0 is absolutely gorgeous" 
------------------------- 
Not only is it gorgeous, but it runs like a Swiss watch! I reviewed this locomotive for the upcoming Oct. issue of our magazine (O Gauge Railroading) and folks at the office were amazed at how nice it looks and at all the detailing. Best of all, it comes with a variety of different fuel loads, stack configurations, pilots, pilot wheel configurations, and other add-ons so the owner can customize the locomotive to his own needs. And the basic locomotive itself is available in six variations--three pre-1900 and three 1910-1920. The Bachmann 4-4-0 is indeed a near image of the Mt. Gretna 2-foot gauge prototype, but Bachmann basically used a stock Baldwin catalog model (they could be made to any gauge requested by the buyer) and chose to make a model that folks could configure to their own tastes. 

Just imagine if manufacturers in other scales offered all sorts of in-the-box accessories so a locomotive could be customized to the customer's needs (just like the 1:1 builders did and still do). 
We will also have a lengthy and insightful (in my opinion) interview with Bachmann's Bud Reece and Lee Riley in that same issue, related to their On30 line only, along with other On30 and O scale narrow gauge articles. 
Since I'm pretty heavily involved in On30 myself and consider the little Davenport switchers among my favorite "critters", I'm definitely looking forward to their bigger brothers in Large Scale. If they are made as well, and operate as well, as the little On30 versions, they should be a big hit. I'm sure Bachmann would have preferred to make their announcement at the NTS, but such is the power of the Internet. 

Oh, yes... and I definitely have to have a couple of those new On30 Rail Buses. Make those in Large Scale some day and I'll be among the first in line!


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, how's this for a twist? 










Or, perhaps "What's wrong with this picture?" 

Matthew (OV)


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SlateCreek on 07/08/2008 5:31 PM
Ok, how's this for a twist? 








Or, perhaps "What's wrong with this picture?" 
Matthew (OV)







Yep, the Bachmann removed posts about that loco too. Bazilian 30" gauge 4-4-0. 

http://www.steam.demon.co.uk/trains/pics02/sjdr03.jpg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Davenports are on the Bachmann page now BTW...... 

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=2983


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

I've seen the On30 Davenport (running *nice & smoothly!)*, been hoping Bachmann would produce it in 1:20.3 for some time. 
Think I have a *perfect* job for one of these already; I have one of the Pola "Gravel Works" buildings on my railroad as the start of a mine complex... 








Note in particular the *"dump chute" into the "hoist conveyor"* on the right side of the "Gravel Works" complex (it's GOING to get some other name eventually!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif); I'm thinking of building some elevated *"mine trackage" to enable 4-wheel side-dump cars to offload into it.* /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif Since I'm planning to use some of the R1 /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif curves left over from my small indoor railroad on this, the Davenport sounds like it would be *perfect for shuttling a few side-dump cars between the conveyor building & mine "shafts"*/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif (I have yet to build the "shafts" & surrounding "mountainside"/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif ). 
Since the Davenport & side sump cars would be running on *their own dedicated track* (fully independent of the DCC-controlled mainline below), I may either use something like DelTapporo's "Critter Control" or scratchbuild an auto-reversing DC control circuit of my own, & let the Davenport "endlessly" shuttle side-dumps to-&-from the mine on its own, while the "mainline"/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif rolling stock "struts it's stuff" below. *DELIGHTED*/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif to see Bachman producing this little loco in large scale (now if they'd only do the *T-boiler 2-cylinder Shay!*/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif ). 
/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif Tom


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep, the Bachmann removed posts about that loco too. Bazilian 30" gauge 4-4-0. 
http://www.steam.demon.co.uk/trains/pics02/sjdr03.jpg 

They made a brazillion of them? Wow, and we thought selling a couple thousand K-27's was gonna be a challenge.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## Skip (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom, you're really starting to get that layout gussied up!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 07/08/2008 7:00 PM
Posted By SlateCreek on 07/08/2008 5:31 PM 
Ok, how's this for a twist? 








Or, perhaps "What's wrong with this picture?" 
Matthew (OV)



Yep, the Bachmann removed posts about that loco too. Bazilian 30" gauge 4-4-0. 
http://www.steam.demon.co.uk/trains/pics02/sjdr03.jpg




Someone please tell me this is large scale...


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2008)

ok Vic, this is large scale......although I have no idea as to the validity of that statement. 

cale


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Man o man if it is thats one hellova nice engine, outside frames and all, I sure hope it is, be the first thing Bmann has made in a long time that I would have a very hard time saying "no" too. 

Judging by the blue foam base, if it is 2" thick foam as it appears, this is most definetly large scale. if it was On30 it would only be as tall as the foam base, this looks about 2 1/2 to 3 times as tall


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Sorry. On30. That's the same diorama base used to showcase the On30 railbusses on the Japanese web site. The large scale diorama has taller rails and visible ties. 

But one can dream... 

Later, 

K


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

BOOOO!


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Or blow up the photo by going to 200% or 400% in your browser and look at the front coupler. Its definately not a Bachmann large scale coupler. 

But I agree it sure is a nice model. 

Stan


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## samevans (Jan 3, 2008)

The ON30 4-4-0 loco is based on a 2 ft prototype. There was enough whinging about size when the Indy mogul came out despite the fact that some were made for plantation work in 3ft. Please please do not use 2 ft prototypes for Fn3. A modernised 'Mogul' and ' American' based on the Centennials would be a better bet, with extended smokeboxes, stove pipe stacks, air brakes, steel cab and electric headlights. Even if these were freelance they would be typical of what went on in the real world and would provide some light power for inter war based Fn3. 

If you must do a Forney choose a 3 ft prototype and please please do not bastardize a Maine Forney, better still do a Mason Bogie and kill two birds with one stone. 

Best 

Sam e


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

"Please please do not use 2 ft prototypes for Fn3." 
-------------------------------- 
Why not? Back in the day, Baldwin offered somewhat generic catalogs of their motive power and the actual products were made to order for the requesting customer. Could be 2-foot or it could be just about any other gauge. They were definitely not "stuck" with one gauge just because the catalog displayed a prototype made in one gauge or another. Even today, locomotives are made to the customer's specifications and not always precisely like the demonstrator models. 

And, yes, Bachmann's OS frame 4-4-0, as pictured and announced, is an On30 model.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

OK I'm calling it here, the new Davenport shall be nicknamed "Davey" (at least I havent seen it anywhere else yet) 

As I said on the Bachmann forum about the premature release picture of the 4-4-0 outside frame Brazilian engine before my comments were purified by the Kafkaesque corporate policy there... 

If that engine was released in large scale, I would stand in line for it! 

Of course though, its NOT going to be released in LS, the On30 guys get all the best stuff, new model after new model year after year...so we get a nice little Davenport, (Davey?) which if it was released shortly after its On30 counterpart, I would likely have got one by now, but in the dryspell of small layout offings when the only small sized engines we got was the upscaled sidetanker, I moved on and have been using ubiqitous Macks for my prime motive units or building my own custom kitbashes, now after manufacturer after manufacturer was throwing steaks to the "Bigger is Better crowd" each year culminating with 2 Big Boys and the K-27, we little guys get tossed this bone, sorry but too little too late in my case, as I said I've been busy doing my own during the last 3 years and from the looks of things the price may be on the too steep end anyways. I hope they sell alot of them, I suspect Europe will be a bigger market for the Davey...


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

the On30 guys get all the best stuff

Oh yes? They have a K-27, or just a weird 2-8-0 with an onion stack? Are the Fn3 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 a bit better models than the Mt Etna 4-4-0? 

That argument could go on forever.


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

I dunno - Side Rod Gas Mechanical... I like "Gassy"


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2008)

You call it Davey, then the 45er will have to be called Goliath......................


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 07/10/2008 4:40 PM
the On30 guys get all the best stuff

Oh yes? They have a K-27, or just a weird 2-8-0 with an onion stack? Are the Fn3 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 a bit better models than the Mt Etna 4-4-0? 
That argument could go on forever. 







I think the biggest part is more "junk" in the boxes such as extra stacks, oil bunkers, fire boxes, etc. 

While I love most 4-4-0s, if you have a full side on view of a Mt. Gretna American (such as the drawings in the Gazette back in '02) shows a very disproportinate loco IMO, compared to the Fn3 Baldwins. 

....and the debate goes on./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By parkdesigner on 07/10/2008 5:16 PM
I dunno - Side Rod Gas Mechanical... I like "Gassy"




Uummm....sound more like someone needs an Alka-Seltzer /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I see the UK fans going Gazzy or Gazzer, has a good ring to it.... 

But it I never understood the nicknames for stuff in large scale anyways. Why not just call it what it is?


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Gassy: Full of Gas. As in "Our sun is a star located at the center of our Solar System. It is a huge, spinning ball of hot gas." Gas. Spin. Check! 

Gasser: One who emits or produces gas. As in "Qui a coupe du fromage, eh?" Generally associated with something rotten in Denmark, or other locations. Check! 

Gozer: Alien Invader. As in "Gozer the Gozerian: As a duly-constituted representative of the City of New York, and on behalf of the 
County and State of New York, the United States of America, the Planet Earth and all its inhabitants, I hereby order you to cease 
and desist any and all supernatural activity and return forthwith to your place of origin or next parallel dimension." 

Ok, a stretch, but still possible, and definately ugly enough. Check! 

I think I vote for Gassy too .... Davey the Davenport sounds too much like something from the Isle of Sodor, and would require big puppy dog eyes in those windows, a nose and mouth on the radiator grille (which is already punctured by those handrail stanchions) and a laugh like Barney the Dinosaur.... 

Matthew (OV)


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## samevans (Jan 3, 2008)

a) The Maine Forneys are FIRMLY identified with 2 ft. If made for 45mm ga they should be 7/8". Not all Baldwin's locos were catalog engines. While the B man Connie might be said to be a large industrial loco, which probably was made to a number of gauges, the Maine Forneys were not. Catalog locos were not all the same locomotives with the wheels pushed in or out. They were more of a pattern with standard boiler sizes and cylinders. There were physical variations according to gauge. USRA designs were catalog locomotives, can you imagine one of them on 2' gauge. Horses for courses. 

b) the whole point of establishing 1:20.3 as a scale on 45mm ga was to have an accurate scale gauge relationship for models of 3ft gauge prototypes. If you are going to start rubber scaling on it you will be destroying all Tony Ferrero's efforts in developing it. You have 1:24 and 1:22.5 to play with, may I suggest respectfully that you stay out of 1:20.3s back yard.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

The Friends of the C&TS have a critter they use for switching on the railroad they call Spike. 

Stan


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I vote we call it the Stanley. 
For all the obvious reasons.


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

The bachmann board is flat again. Source code: 
"*** 


***" 

(edit: Well, there was a block of code that basically shows a "Transitional" board that's just a blank document with no text ... but the forum eats the code so you can't see it. Ah well.) 

That's it. No "Closed for Cleaning" or "Back in Five Minutes." Just a blank document where the board once was. 

Also the prices have disappeared from the gas mechanical in the catalog. Odd. 

As to a Forney ... the Portland looking one that Roundhouse makes looks pretty good in 45 mm gauge. I'd probably have to have a couple, particularly if they did the outside frame Baldwins, a la B&H 7 and 8 .... but the Vulcan 0-4-4T a la Monson #3 and 4 is pretty close to my heart too, so I wouldn't say "no" there either. 
Either would run circles around the current LGB offering. 

Oh, and forgive me, Tony, but I disagree. That'd be like naming an otherwise popular soft drink after the guy who convinced Coca Cola to release "New Coke" back in the 80's because everyone would love it and jump on board .... 

Matthew (OV)


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Porter built 3' Forneys, several were sold to shortlines and plantations here in the South.....maybe why we do not see them /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif 

Porter also sold a 2' gauge Forney (#1043) to the Mt. Gretna. It was sent back to Porter after it was found that it could not negotiate the trackage. Reportedly, Porter then re-gauged it from 2' to Std gauge for industrial use..... 

I wonder what it looked like in that guise?


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder ... how much would you have to widen the frame of one of our more famous outside frame two footers to accomodate 36" gauge? You'd be moving the wheels out 6" on each side. Assuming Baldwin (and others) built locomotives in a variety of gauges, you'd think the frame would accomodate different widths depending on the order.... is it possible that you could get 36" out of one of them without any other major changes? 

Matthew (OV)


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## samevans (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SlateCreek on 07/11/2008 9:46 PM
I wonder ... how much would you have to widen the frame of one of our more famous outside frame two footers to accomodate 36" gauge? You'd be moving the wheels out 6" on each side. Assuming Baldwin (and others) built locomotives in a variety of gauges, you'd think the frame would accomodate different widths depending on the order.... is it possible that you could get 36" out of one of them without any other major changes? 
Matthew (OV)




Locomotives, even catalog locos were not built as a one size fits all. You bought a spec from the catalog, not the loco pictured. Outside frame locos with frames set to accomodate a wide range of gauges were rare as they threw up technical problems of their own. Usually such locos were built for contractors. Changes of gauge usually needed factory re builds and these were undertaken only when either the locos were bought pre owned cheaply or the railway for some reason HAD to change gauge but did not have the capital for a new loco fleet to suit. 

The idea of building a loco with frames set for multigauge is largely a model rail thing. I can think of only one example where an outside frame loco is said to have been built thus. It was built to the gauge of an existing colliery line but is said to have had provision for an increase of 3" in gauge (not, note, a foot) if more grandiose plans had taken off. As it was the gauge was never changed. 

If a 3 footer had been built to the spec for a Maine Forney it would most likely have looked quite different to the 2' gauge loco. Had one of the originals been rebuilt for 3' gauge its character would have been radically changed. 

In all this consideration it surprises me that no one has asked for a 1:20.3 USRA Mike built to run on 45mm gauge. OK it would be VERY bear on a bicycle but would be no more weird than a 2' gauge loco being stretched for no good reason to 3 ft. 

IF you are serious about 2' gauge then it strikes me thatthere is room for 1:20.3 models built to run on 30mm gauge (Regner did such a track system) , or adjustable to 32mm gauge 0gauge) . The distortion required for a gauge change of 2mm is negligible. If it HAS to be 45mm ga then 7/8" scale please.


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## samevans (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 07/11/2008 8:47 PM
Porter built 3' Forneys, several were sold to shortlines and plantations here in the South.....maybe why we do not see them /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif" border=0> Porter also sold a 2' gauge Forney (#1043) to the Mt. Gretna. It was sent back to Porter after it was found that it could not negotiate the trackage. Reportedly, Porter then re-gauged it from 2' to Std gauge for industrial use..... 
I wonder what it looked like in that guise? 





Very different. The two foot loco would have been regarded as a source of parts for what was essentially a new loco. It would be interesting to see photos of the two versions.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Three foot gauge forneys? How about this one? 










You could use the existing Porter chassis, even. 









Later, 

K


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## dana (Jan 7, 2008)

what i'd love to see in1:20.3.







would ookgreat withthe log cars they make" border=0>


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By samevans on 07/11/2008 11:15 PM
Very different. The two foot loco would have been regarded as a source of parts for what was essentially a new loco. It would be interesting to see photos of the two versions.




Depending on the amount of the rebuild. 

But I was wrong about Porter taking on this work..... 

The rebuild was performed by the shops of the MG owner Cornwall and Lebanon. It was used (reportedly) as a shop switcher, construction trains and then sent on to a coke furnace and then retired. 

Interestingly, it does not appear in any C&L loco roster I can find online. 

So with it being the 1800s, and rebuilt "in house" and reportedly seeing such light duty, I doubt that an extensive re-configuration was done.


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## samevans (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 07/11/2008 11:29 PM
Three foot gauge forneys? How about this one? 







You could use the existing Porter chassis, even. 







Later, 
K 





What type of road was it built for? Is that a Ruby chassis underneath the model? 

I have read that one of Forney's ideas was to create a tank loco where the (adhesive) weight was kept as constant as possible by taking fuel and water weight (variable) on the truck. I have also read a statement that Forney sought to include the water and fuel weight on the drivers by his design. My instinct is that the former is more correct, can anyone verify please? A reprint of the 'Catechism of the Locomotive' by Forney may hold the answer. 

I have seen a 'quote'from the 1866 which is a bit ambiguous but seems to support the constant weight theory. 

What is certain is that the loco was originally intended to run truck/cab/bunker first as a 4-4-0 and an early major use of the loco design was on Elevated Railways. It is also true that the truck pivot was originally fixed with no lateral movement and the inboard driver was flangeless to compensate. Puck, Arial, and the Porter built forney aka Butterfly, on the Sandy River were built thus (lool carefully at the engraving of the former two. The Porter at least was prone to derail and all three wer rebuilt with lateral movement in the truck and all-flanged drivers. 

Sam E


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## mhutson (Jan 2, 2008)

Once again, the B'mann has answered the question no one is asking. Where DO they come up with their large scale production ideas? Batting about .250 by my count. 

Cheers, 
Matt


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By mhutson on 07/12/2008 2:41 PM
Once again, the B'mann has answered the question no one is asking. Where DO they come up with their large scale production ideas? Batting about .250 by my count. 
Cheers, 
Matt




You think an 0-4-0 diesel is strange? How about a 2-6-6-2T logging mallet that never got built? Almost as bad as an outside-frame 2-8-0 that was a 30" loco made for Brasil...


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

I would love to see Bachman come out with the Forney. I love my Climax ! I hope Bachman is listening. A Forney please...


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Back to the origins of the thread..... 

The first of these are hitting the UK. Die-cast chassis, nice and small and good runners according to what I have read.


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