# i have a feeeling i will kill these..



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

while we were away i got about 20-30 lodgepole pine (i think thats what they are) saplings. they were growing in probablay the worst soil i wave ever seen (it was no soil, just rocks and pine needles) and they have an extremely small root structure. any tips on planting these?

BTW they are about 1 foot tall and under


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I have a couple places where the "soil" is more mulch than dirt, which has stunted the growth of some of my plantings. If I have to plant in a "bad" spot, I usually dig a hole about 2x the size of the rootball, fill the bottom half with topsoil, put in the plant, and fill around with more topsoil.

But all my "trees" are dwarfs, so they are unlikely to need more than that. For "real" trees you might have to do a significantly larger amount of digging/filling.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i plan on trimmin them to keep them small, but will the root system still grow very big? they will be planted about 10 inches apart.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Chance are you damaged it's finer roots digging them up. They may have dried out since too unless kept moist. The roots will only grow depending on how big the tree is up top. You won't end up with massive roots with a stunted trimmed tree above ground. There are different varieties of Lodgepole pines, some are tall trees and subspecies are smallish shrubs in coastal areas. 
What were the parent trees where you dug them up? Pines tend to be fast growers so will need very frequent trimming to keep small. You can also inhibit their roots within root control bags for instance which will help keep them small. If they were small shrubby trees they may be suitable. Generally, I would stick with Alberta spruces and other dwarf varieties.

Andrew


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

tHESE tREES ARE THE PARENT TREES


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, if your intent is to have skinny trees 60 foot high, I'd say you are on the right path.

If you want trees to decorate your layout, I suggest you change your modelling scale to match, I'd go with 12 inches to the foot.

Greg


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i agree greg BUT i am NOT some billionaire that can offord to run out and buy 30 dwarf trees.. how long will these trees stay small? 1 month? one year? 5 years? 500,000,000 years? well, if the trees are a loss, at least i got a full trash bag full of moss


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Yes, plants can be expensive. I think you can get dwarf Alberta spruces going at a discount at some places with excess stock late around Xmas. English box aren't that expensive as they are easily struck from small cuttings. Buy them as small tube stock cheap. A few years growth and they will get to the size that will scale well with your trains and can be trimmed to different shapes. Small growers are slow growers so a bit of patience is required.

Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

They will stay small if they 'cark it' which may be the likely case with many species lifted from the wild. Just depends. Put them in straight away and water them well but not too often. Don't let them dry out. Nurse them until you see new growth which will indicated the roots are growing, then they should look after themselves. Give it a go and learn. good luck with them. 
Oh, and buy a chainsaw if you are successful... 

Andrew


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

they were harvested monday night/ tuesday and will be planted tomorrow... hopefully. this morning the were put in a tub of water with miracle gro and hopefully they will be okay. some of them have gotten a tint of yellow on the ends of the branches but hopefully they will be okay.

greg, i would LOVE to model in 12 inches too the foot, but that would get expensive PRETTY quick  epsecially the live steam engines andrew dont worry we got a chainsaw in the shed maybe if i spray steam oil on them with ruby thay will help!


(yes i know i use WAY too many smileys)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Luckily I am not a billionaire and small starters of dwarf cedar, pine, etc. cost $8 to $14 here in san diego, where stuff is pretty expensive compared to most other places.

The issue is that you will have to spend a lot of time to try to keep them small. So is it worth the effort for the cost savings? 

Remember that many people start the hobby enthuastically, but get disenchanted and frustrated when their empire becomes a maintenance nightmare.

Remember you asked for advice, and when you lash back "I'm not a billionaire", well, maybe people may think twice next time instead of giving helpful advice.

(in the big picture, besides the fact it does not take a billionaire to buy a few trees at 8 bucks, compared to track, switches, locos, batteries, controllers, rolling stock, etc. your plants will be one of the lesser investments)

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Some folks use smaller pots to plant them in. The idea is to keep the root ball small to stunt growth...
John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I keep mine in pots and that helps, but you have to allow some drainage for the pot, and the roots will follow the drainage hole and the water. I pull the pots every 6 months and less and trim any roots trying to get out. Sometimes I re-pot after trimming roots.

It does indeed help, no question, just warning him that a non-dwarf will be a lot more work to control.

Regards, Greg


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Greg Elmassian said:


> .
> 
> Remember you asked for advice, and when you lash back "I'm not a billionaire", well, maybe people may think twice next time instead of giving helpful advice.
> =
> Regards, Greg


 greg, i am very sorry i did not mean it that way, its just at our local garden store,dwarf trees generally are in the $50 price range, and i assumed they cost that much elswhere,and plus i am only now starting to work on the "garden aspect" of the railroad and just topsoil alone has blown my budget,
again, my apology- nate H


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Look around a bit, or ask them if they get seedlings, they should be 6-8 bucks and then you can easily control them to what you want.

Ask them they might have these available, you never know. They will often come in 3" square "pots".

The alternative is having them shipped. http://www.miniforest.com/treesandshrubs.html

Now, those guys are a bit higher, but they have sales where the price is cut, notice the boxwood on sale.

Do any of your local nurseries actually grow the plants themselves? That would be a place to look.

I agree, $50 each for plants can get prohibitive in a hurry!

Regards, Greg


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

It sounds like you have already purchased the trees. If not try lowes or home depo you can get dwarf alberta spruce for around 5 to 7 dollars. Pete


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

pete, i got the trees a week ago and planted them 2 days ago. they seem to be doing fine so far. i will look at HD or lowes when i have more $


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete: From reading the first post, I believe the trees were free.

Greg


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

nate; 

I would plant and see what comes up. 

I tend to have quite a lot of volunteer seedlings (from the full size yard spruce or dwarves) popping up all over the layout . 
If too many or in a bad location pulled and thrown out.

Others I let grow to see what some pruning may turn them into. A few have small needles on them so I presume either immature pines or from the dwarves. I tend to let them grow in place, others might be cut above grade and left as a stump. I've been known to pull out the 'stump' and plant the stumps in the ground somewhere else on the layout as a grouping or singular ..... prototypical ehhh !

btw I also tend to 'roll the dice' and wait for end of season sales. 


doug c


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Pete: From reading the first post, I believe the trees were free.
> 
> Greg


Free? I'm sure there was a shovel and some effort involved. 

Andrew


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Im going to go out on a limb here and say they most likely will not survive the transplant. If you disturbed the roots you increase the damages to the root tips and will not grow more enought to sustain life on the tree. Being you are planting 10" apart thats too close Even if you trim and try to keep small you may get say 3-4' for a few years. 

Best bet is using boxwoods or alberta spruce in 1gal pots. Establish for a year then trim back hard to the shape you want removing extra branches. 

Another good plant is various smaller Cypress trees (Not a Leland)
Japanese maples, lots of smaller tree types. Cottoneaster, There are alot of things that can be used. Try to use a plant that in mature size is 10-15' tall max. Keeping to a 2-3' tree is much easier. 

My friend Shawn b uys out lowes or HD at the end of season sales with Alberta Spruces usually a few dollars. Even if the tree looks shitty for a specimen its perfect for a railway.

If you use faceplant you can see his RR here. 

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=kittatinny%20mountain%20railroad


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

jason the trees are starting to die hopefully one or two will live. will have to wait and see. that railroad looks very nice with all the green foliage and such.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Nate, you also said you got them from where there was hardly any soil, mainly just rocks. Pines are very hardy and will grow in those types of conditions because they have fine roots way down under the rocks seeking moisture and nutrients. Digging them up would have messed up most of their fine roots. nurseries grow young trees in fine top soil and are lifted with tree spades with the soil or have the soil gently washed away with water so the roots are not damaged. 

Andrew


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate the next time you plant your trees dig your hole and before you put the plant in it put in some good soil something you can buy at a nursey or lowes or home depot. Also looking at your picture of the pine trees you have they look in bad shape. I hope you do not have pine beatles .


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