# Beginning a new locomotive



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

A few folks have asked for pictures, so here ya' go....

This is my first large scale scratchbuilding project. I've attempted various cars and kitbashet locomotives in HO and On30, but I've never tried scratchbuilding a locomotive before.

The chassis is from an old Bachmann 0-4-0T Circus train set. Eventually she will be a 2-4-0 with a 3 axle tender, although other options include a 2-4-2T and a 2-4-4 (or 0-4-4) Forney. Scale is 1:20.3

Not counting the cost of the original locomotive, which I've had sitting around for longer than I can remember, I've spent around $12 so far on the project, including styrene, conduit, and dome tops (cleverly disgused as furniture sliders). The cylinders in the photos are from the donor, and they will be replaced with a scratchbuilt cylinder & saddle block.

Features of interest include the boiler wrapper, which is made from a latex caulk tube (previously emptied, of course), the homemade bonnet stack (still under heavy construction, but made out of a kitchen funnel), and the cab drawing in the background. The drawing started as a standard gauge 4-4-0 drawing (I think from Forney's "Catechism of the Locomotive") which I downloaded, edited so that the various parts match those on the model, and printed to scale. The idea is that I'll use it to properly scale the cab.

None of the parts are being built to any particular dimension, and there's no prototype in mind. The idea is that she'll be a dimutive, reasonably accurate model of something that could have been. Thanks, Fletch, for the inspiration to get started!



















I'm particularly proud of the steam dome (sand dome to follow, smaller but of the same construction)










The brass top started life as the bottom half of a nail-on furniture slider. The cylindrical portions are cut out of a $0.67 3/4" electrical conduit bend. They're pretty handy - for under a buck, there's enough material for the body of the dome and the perfectly concentric rings top & bottom. If you're careful, there's enough material for 2 domes in each one. I plan to find some O-rings that will fit over the inner tube, to dress up the joints.


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## Greg Vocks (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like a good start. I appreciate seeing what a little imagination and some creative scrounging can do. Keep 'em coming.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Okay, I know it's been a long time, but modelling takes a back seat to the daily household duties. 

Anyway, here's the latest progress. The stack is finished, and I'm rather proud of it. The domes are close - just need to finish the safety valves, whictle, and sand valve lever. The boiler needs a little detail work, but it's coming along nicely. On the bench at the moment are the bottom plate of the chassis (since I lost the original somewhere along the way), the wooden pilot, and the headlight. The cab shown is a Delton C-16 cab, which I plan on replacing (the walls are all bowed, and I'd rather have an older style anyway). 

I have not yet started the pilot truck, cab, or the tender yet, but they're next on the list of major components to build. 


















While this is not based on any of the models in the Masterclasses, they have served as inspiration, and a superb reference as I build my own model. Thanks, Fletch! 

Kenneth Rickman


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Very good start. You have really captured the essence of a steam engine.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Come along very nice. Thanks for posting pics. Please keep posting your progress. One of these days I'm going to have time scratch build a loco and I'd like to bookmark this one


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Ya got more guts than me, guy! Keep on steamin, you're doin' great!


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for the compliments, guys! I can't claim that scratchbuilding is some great secret skill, though.. It's actually quite easy, as long as you're willing to make every part at least twice (or settle for whatever you make the first time - I'm kinda picky). The masterclasses are great for ideas and tips on technique, materials, etc. Also, if you don't already have it, John H. White's "History of the American Locomotive" is a great resource if you're interested in 19th century locomotives. 

For me, part of the fun is in the challenge of designing things on the fly. First I figure out what I want, then what to make it out of, then how to make it. After that, the actual construction is pretty simple. Sometimes, I don't even know where I'm going with a aprt, but I start anyway. For example, in the earlier pictures you'll see one of the domes, made up of segments of PVC conduit. (by the way, those conduit 90 degree L's are great - for less than a buck, you get enough material for a dome or cylinder, and the other end is flared out to provide perfect concentric pipe segments). I spent about an hour making both domes, then stared at them for months while I worked on othe rprojects, trying to figure out how to finish them. Finally, inspiration hit, and a few hours later, I had a pair of domes. 

Above all, have fun with whatever you're doing!


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey wow, thats looking really sweet. Nice work on the domes and smokebox front too, but that stack is a winner! 

Keep on it, love to see this one all painted up and running. 
David.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

David, coming from you, that's praise indeed! What was it Tolkien wrote about the praise of the praiseworthy? 

The stack was a pain, because I made the mistake of starting with a flimsy kitchen funnel. It was almost impossible to get cut square and straight. I think, in the end, I eyeballed the cut and sanded it to fit the other parts. It's probably not perfect, but close enough for gu'ment work.


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## Bob Baxter (Jan 3, 2008)

Ken, It's a great thing to see someone venturing down the path of "design as you go" model engineering. I've been whacking away on Bachmann products for almost 20 years. You are doing a great job and I'm sure the finished loco will be a delight to see. There's nothing to compare with the satisfaction of taking a pile of bits and pieces and working them into a credible locomotive. We're looking forward to seeing the finished unit.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice modeling, Ken! You're an inspiration to be sure!


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

Excellent kitchen sink engineering skills. 
As kids, we used to watch a program called MacGyver in which the hero could get himself out of any situation with a pocket knife, some bailing wire and a chewing gum wrapper. I suspect you model the same way, and I am therefore rewarding you with at least 2 MacGyver Points for your work! 
Joel


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2008)

Man that really turned out well! Even makes me want to push harder.


Toad


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for all the comments, guys. They're inspiring me to get some more work done. Tonight I've been working on the replacement bottom plate for the chassis (complete with lowered areas for the motor frame and drive gear), and the various bits of decoration on the chassis - the lower part of the firebox, and simulating a frame in some rudimentary manner. 

It's very tempting to take it out and spray paint everything now, to see how they'll look, even though I'm not finished with them. Soon....


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Some more pictures, and a little more work done this morning." border=0> 

First off, a slightly better picture of the backhead. I don't think I'll be able to get a good photo until I paint the glaring white strene. And, of course, I still need to add the throttle handle. 









Next, a couple overviews of the loco in her current state. I finally finished the bottom plate, so the drivers will finally stay put. 

















Finally, a close-up of the firebox. Once again, a coat of grey primer would make things a lot more visible. Got to finish up the frame and give everything a bath first, though. Still, not bad considering that yesterday this was just a blank expanse of black plastic.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

A few more photos


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I painted the frame, firebox, and wheels. I'll probably strip and re-paint the drivers, as I'm not happy with how they turned out. I hand-painted them using glsss red acrylic, and it didn't cover the black plastic centers very well. This is after 4 or 5 coats, and you can still see black around the edges.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Well, work continues, and heavy, dirty work at that... 

I decided to pull the plastic driver centers out. Since that destroyed them, I'll be making new ones. But, since the wheels were now completely apart, it seemed like a great time to fix something that's been bugging me. Bachmann put the rods waaaaay to far out from the wheels when they made this litle loco, and it kinda looks funny. So, I ground a bunch of metal away to bring them in closer to the wheels. Now that the stock wheel centers are gone, there's no pesky "bump" in the center to interfere with the rods. While I was at it, I made a brass bushing to take up some of the copious slop between the crank pins and rods. 

So far, one wheel and set of rods is done. The rest ought to be easier, now that I've figured out how. It's kinda scary, knowing that there's no turning back once the metal is ground away. We'll see how well the engine runs once all is said and done. I figure if I can make a fiddly little HOn3 engine run, Fn3 shold be a cake walk by comparison. 

Here are some before and after photos. Note how much closer both rods are to each other and to the wheel.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I notice a few new viewers, but no comments... Is anyone interested in my continuing this thread? If not, I'll poke along on my own and show off the finished results eventually. Don't want to waste space if it's not needed, but I'm more than happy to continue if anyone wants me to.


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you have a good number of "lurkers" on this thread, Ken. Probably just waiting for the right thing to comment on?? 
Chris


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By cjwalas on 09/07/2008 5:00 PM
I think you have a good number of "lurkers" on this thread, Ken. Probably just waiting for the right thing to comment on?? 
Chris


That was my thought as well. Just wanted to check, as I would hate to be wasting MLS web space just to see my pictures published.


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ken, 

I'm interested in how you are doing the driver centers. Please keep the posts and photos comming. 

Thanks Chuckger


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Keep'em coming I always enjoy a good bash!


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## Guest (Sep 8, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 09/08/2008 9:20 AM
Keep'em coming I always enjoy a good bash! " border=0>



I, mate! Love to see more freelance pixs!


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By Ole Toad Frog on 09/08/2008 9:46 AM
Posted By vsmith on 09/08/2008 9:20 AM 
Keep'em coming I always enjoy a good bash! " border=0>" border=0>

I, mate! Love to see more freelance pixs!





Fair enough! I'l keep at it. At the moment, I'm in the middle of replacing all the carpet in the house with laminate, so I'm either bent over working on the floor, or sitting down wondering why I didn't just pay someone to do it for me. 

We will return you to your regularly scheduled kitbashing after this brief iterruption.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I've been away too long... this thread was half way down my second page of posts. I have managed to get a little done, at least. Also, posted a question over in this thread. 

So far, I have all 4 driver centers out and scrapped. New ones will be made somehow. The crank pins have been shortened, and new brass bushings slipped over each pin. The rods now have very little slop in them, compared to a great deal before. I discovered that I'd actually removed a little too much from the main crank pins and main rods, causing an interference between the crossheads and front crank pin bolt heads. Hopefully, simply angling the main rods a bit so that the crossheads are spread further will solve that problem. And finally, I've cut the cylinder saddle and narrowed each side by 1.5mm, bringing the cylinders in line with the narrower rods. No pictures at the moment, because there's not really much worth seeing. 

Next up on the project list is to make a new crosshead guide bracket, and finally get the entire drive portion assembled. Then I can put power on the motor, and see how many binds the mechanism has. Wouldn't it be nice if it ran smoothly on the first try? Not likely, but nice..... 

By the way, does anybody know if it's safe to ACC the plastic axle bearings into the gear bracket? Right now, they're loose on the axles, and every time I take it out, the darn things slide around, and have to be slipped back into place to put the motor & rear axle back into the block. I'm not talking about the main bearings - those are brass, and ride in slots in the chassis. The ones I'm talking about are to hold the gear box in alignment with the axle.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I've learned a few things in the past few days. 

A table saw is very useful for cutting the cylinders off a saddle. It's also good at destroying any part that's free to move in the least way. 

It's a lot easier to make a part properly the first time than it is to cut it up and adjust it later. 

PVC pipe cement will bond styrene to PVC pipe. It will also dissolve styrene if it's allowed to glob up behind it. 

And finally, a coat of paint hides a host of sins! 

I've been working on the cylinder saddle and pilot deck. Finally getting around to capping the cylinders. I also added the valve chests, truck spring canister, and layed out the location of the smokebox braces. 
















You can see how the .015" styrene cylinder caps have warped and wrinkled from the PVC cement behind them. I drilled holes for the piston rods and drain cocks, hoping that opening the cylinders would allow the solvents to evaporate. When everything dries completely, I'll putty and sand the caps smooth. Ironically, I kind of like the look of the raised perimeter, so I may make some styrene rings to finish the ends properly. I suspect that the final look will not be decided until the work is done. 

I'm thinking of painting the whole thing blue, with Russia iron cylinder jackets and blue caps, possibly with gold or white lining on the cylinder caps, valve chests, and deck edging. Any opinions?


{edit} In looking at the pictures, it looks like the cylinders are not parallel. They are, as close as I can measure and see. The distortion is an artifact of the camera angle.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ken,

I thought you did the raised cylinder sections on purpose!! I like reading these kinds of posts because it gives me inspiration to cut and bash my seldom or unused trains.

Mark


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 09/24/2008 1:47 PM
Ken,

I thought you did the raised cylinder sections on purpose!! I like reading these kinds of posts because it gives me inspiration to cut and bash my seldom or unused trains.

Mark



Mark, It almost looks that way, doesn't it? If the wrinkles were more even, I'd leave them. As it is, I'll fix them, then re-make the center portions under more controlled circumstances. By all means, start cutting and bashing! It's a lot easier than it looks at first glance, and a load of fun to boot.

As someone's signature around here suggests, do something, even if it's wrong. Styrene is remarkably easy to work with, and almost anything can be made and re-made. Mistakes are usually pretty simple to repair, if somewhat time consuming. Basically, don't be afraid to get in there and hack something up. It may take a while, but you'll eventually get the results you want, and be darn proud of what you've acomplished.

For the record, this is my first ever scratchbuilding project.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm rather proud of how well this turned out.


























The flourescent yellow rings were cut from the body of a highlighter marker. It's hard to see, but there's a strene rod glued around the perimeter as a trim ring.

The front is made up od several styrene disks and rings, sanded smooth and stacked. The ball at the center is the head of a sewing pin, the shaft of which was cut short and superglued into a hole in the cylinder cover.


It's almost ready for paint now. All I have left to add is the front beam, drain cocks, and valve stem glands.

Quite a change from the oringinal B'mann part, or this, for that matter:


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By DKRickman on 09/24/2008 1:14 PM
"I've learned a few things in the past few days. 
PVC pipe cement will bond styrene to PVC pipe." 


WARNING! Unfortunately, you're going to learn the last word of that statement...."temporarily". While it will seem like an amazing, strong and convenient adhesive at first, PVC cement will release completely from the styrene over time. I didn't discover this until long after I had completed a major bash. I had to disassemble, clean, reglue and repaint all of the bonds originally between styrene and PVC. I strongly suggest that you do this now on your model to avoid having to go through the same thing I did!

Chris


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By cjwalas on 09/27/2008 6:20 PM
Posted By DKRickman on 09/24/2008 1:14 PM
"I've learned a few things in the past few days. 
PVC pipe cement will bond styrene to PVC pipe." 
WARNING! Unfortunately, you're going to learn the last word of that statement...."temporarily". While it will seem like an amazing, strong and convenient adhesive at first, PVC cement will release completely from the styrene over time. I didn't discover this until long after I had completed a major bash. I had to disassemble, clean, reglue and repaint all of the bonds originally between styrene and PVC. I strongly suggest that you do this now on your model to avoid having to go through the same thing I did!
Chris 

Oh joy! Unfortunately, at this point, disasembly would involve destroying quite a bit of work. I bonded the 1/8" strip around the cylinder with ACC, and slopped quite a bit all over the place. Hopefully this will serve to hold the caps in place, even if the PC cement bond does fail. At least they're not structural, and would probably stay put without any glue at all.


Iwas getting excited, but ran out of ACC. I decided to see what else I had around the house that would work. Sounds like I should have waited until I could get more ACC.

Is it possible that there are/were multiple formulations of PVC cement? I made a test joint with scraps of pipe and sttrene, and the bond seemed good. I just checked it (3 days later) and I can not break the joint. It seems to have dissolved the styrene, and when tested to failure, the styrene tore apart before the joint. I am not doubting your advice at all, but I am curious.


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope you're right and that there are various (and very different) PVC glues. The one that I have experience with is Red Hot Blue Glue (I think that's what it's called). And the bond seems too good to be true at first. I remember being overjoyed as I use so much of both PVC and styrene. I don't think the failure shows up for at least six months or more, at least that's when I first spotted it. I hoped it was just the odd bond, but virtually every single bond failed completely. I was devastated. 
There very well may be better PVC glues for bonding with styrene, but I sure wouldn't commit to a model without a year's test on a bond first. 
Please let us know if your PVC glue holds up under time as it would be fantastic to find a really dependable PVC/styrene bonding agent. 
Chris


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By cjwalas on 09/28/2008 2:25 PM
I hope you're right and that there are various (and very different) PVC glues. The one that I have experience with is Red Hot Blue Glue (I think that's what it's called).

Chris,


I sure hope I'm right as well! I guess we'll learn soon enough, won't we? The product I used Is Oatey brand "Medium Clear PVC Cement." The label says it contains Tetrahydrofuran, PVC Resin, Acetone, Methyl Ethly Ketone, Cyclohexanone and Amorpous Silica. I cannot comment on the other ingredients, but I use both acetone and MEK to solvent weld styrene, which is ehat leads me to hope that all will turn out well in the end. I'll let everyone know the results in the future.

Heck, at the rate I'm going, I'll still be working on this engine a year from now!


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Every so often, I have to prop all the parts together to get a feel for how the loco is progressing. I thought you might like to see how she looks tonight. I'm happy.


























There is obviously still quite a bit to do, but she's finally starting to look like a locomotive again.


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## jnic (Jan 2, 2008)

I found this:    It's a little runny and sets up quickly but it holds great and is specifically made to bond dissimilar plastics - including styrene.


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't think styrene is the problem. There are a number of very good adhesives for styrene. I just went through the Weld-on site and there's only one glue recommended for PVC and styrene. It's their number 790. Haven't tried it, but I may have to track some down! 
Chris


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Chris, 

My thought was/is that the MEK in the PVC cement would dissolve the styrene, while the other hydrocarbons would dissolve the PVC. Thus, both plastics will solvent-weld together, or at the very least intermix in such a way that there is a physical, rather than chemical, bond. That's the theory, at least.


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

Ken, 
I get the theory. It's exactly what I thought would work as well. It didn't. While the styrene definitely dissolved on the surface, the two plastics never worked into each other. 
The Red Hot Blue Glue has most of the same contents as the Oaty. The MEK definitely melts the styrene, but that doesn't mean it bonds with the PVC, even as a mechanical bond. Most PVC glues are dissolved PVC and PVC solvent. I suspect (don't really know) that the MEK in PVC cement is more to keep the glue in solution and slow the eventual set up of the PVC. 
I hate to be a Doomsayer here, but with my experience, I can't say I have much faith in your theory. But I REALLY hope I'm wrong, for your sake! 
Chris


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By cjwalas on 09/29/2008 11:11 AM
I hate to be a Doomsayer here, but with my experience, I can't say I have much faith in your theory. But I REALLY hope I'm wrong, for your sake! 
Chris

Chris,

I can't say that I have much faith in my theory either, especially sine you have all the expereince, and I have none. But we shall see. With a little luck, either the cement will hold, or some of the other stuff I've glopped all over the joint will hold instead. I sure hope I don't have to re-make those darned cylinders - it took me months to get the nerve and inspiration to build them the first time!


In other news, the lead truck spring arrangement is in, and seems to work well. It's stiff, especially side to side, but still movable. There is some downward pressure on the truck, but not enough to lift the front driver, even with a bare chassis, so hopefully that will work out well. As for the side to side, pushing on the wheels will make the truck swing a couple degrees before moving the chassis (sitting on the workbench). I'm hoping that once the model is assembled, weighted, and put on the rails, the truck will do it's jpb of leading the engine without being so stiff that it rides up over the outside rail in a curve. One advantage to using wire (or brass rod, in my case) as a spring is that it's easy to adjust the spring rate by using a different diameter wire. Pictures will be posted soon.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Pictures! I love pictures.... 

First, the chassis assembled, complete with a new crosshead guide support 









Here's the truck, showing the spring arrangement that I came up with. If you look closely, you can see that the mounting point on the chassis is actually angled (front end closer to the track), which puts downward pressure on the truck. I think the truck is now ready for paint. 









Just for fun, a before and after shot of the cylinders. It's amazing to me that both fit exactly the same model. The only significant change (other than narrowing the whole assembly, of course) is that the valve rods are no longer centered above the cylinders.


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## docwatsonva (Jan 2, 2008)

Ken,

That's looking better all the time. I hope you can bring it on Saturday.

Doc


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Doc, 

We'll be there. The get-together is giving me the motivation to at least get it in some sort of running condition, even without paint or a tender.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

It's Alive!!! 

This evening, I soldered a 7.5V wall wart directly to the motor, and plugged her in (through a switched outlet, of course). After a little tweaking (put the main drive gear on backwards), she runs pretty well. There's a little wheel wobble, but nothing I can't live with. My main concern was that the ground down and bushed out crank pins would cause a bind, but the engine runs as well with both sets of drivers as it does with one. One thing I learned was that she'll be plenty fast enough on 12 volts, so I'm thinking maybe 14.4V on the batteries, to deal with losses and load. 

In other news, I made and epoxied in the smokebox braces, and then proceded to paint both the cylinder/deck and pilot blue. I'm figuring on painting the cylinder jackest russia iron, to match the boiler, and possible the valve chest wrapper brass. Any opinions?


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I finally went and bacame a 1st class member. My, these extra features sure are nice!

It's amazing what a coat of paint will do for a model. Not much progress other than paint, but it's woth a couple pictures.

















The blue isn't quite as bright as it loks in the photos. It's actually a nice royal blue, just dark enough to look classy (in my humble opinion, anyway)


The boiler will not be black. I've got some Testor's Metalizer (stainless, I think) which I intend to put on over the black, for a russia iron look. My hope is that the black base will darken the stainless a bit.


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Your pictures were better before you became a first class member....


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By astrayelmgod on 10/02/2008 6:02 PM
Your pictures were better before you became a first class member....


I noticed... The pictures are the same, at least on my computer, but the display seems different. Probably something I'm doing wrong.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Here's a major milestone - a brand new cab! I'd been using a Delton C-16 cab. It worked, but it was not the style I wanted, and it was a bit warped, and it was a bit small for 1:20.3. So I finally got the energy to make a new one. With plenty of inspiration from the Porter Masterclass, here's the result:










There's still plenty of work to do on it. Varios details need to be added, the sheet metal plate on the front to protect the wood from the heat of the boiler, and plenty of clean-up. But overal, it looks like a cab, and really changes the style of the engine.


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking great! That cab will really give the loco even more identity. Excellent choice. 
Chris


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, Chris! 

I've been pushing to get the engine presentable for docwatsonva's get-together tomorrow. I just got the cab attached, and it really does look good. I'll be sure to take plenty of photos tomorrow.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Here are a couple photos from the get-together this weekend. She ran, although I have the motor wired backwards. It was very satisfying to see her move under her own power for the first time ever. It was also very useful to have something to compate to, size-wise. I've been working in a vaccuum, with no other large scale equipment, or even track. I don't have the "feel" for the scale, the way I do in HO, so I was a bit nervous how everything would scale out. I think it looks good. It's obvious just how small this engine is, once you get it around some other 1:20.3 equipment. One of the photos shows it sitting beside an LGB porter with a custom cab.


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good, Ken! The size looks about right for the kind of loco it is. Should be a real eye-catcher when it's done! 
Chris


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, Chris! 

Does anyone know what an apropriate treatment would be for the tops of the running boards? At that time, I know that OSHA had never been heard of, so the same gloss paint as was used on the rest of the engine might have been used, but it seems like they'd at least have tried to make something anti-slip. Would they have put crushed walnut shells into the wet paint, as is done today on outdoor stair treads? Sand? Bare wood? Or something else entirely?


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks really good Ken. Size looks spot on for that type of engine. Running board tops were usually treated with hard wearing paints, rather than the higher quality decorative paint used on the loco's visible sides. Mineral paints (red browns) with grit mixed in was used on running board tops and tender decks and tops, but other paints too. SP has been known to use some quite bright colours with grit, such as yellows. If you see the Col. Boone. live steamer 4-4-0 in the photo above, you can see a black loco with the mineral brown painted to running board tops and tender tops etc. 

David.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

David, 

So, something like a mineral brown primer would be a good choice? I think it would fit well with the rest of the color scheme, which is blue with red wheels and white lining.


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Ken, 


That is looking good, the new cab will really set it off! There is some doubt IF the Porters had a metal sheet over the firebox & boiler assembly; when I did my blue (#7) Porter the decision was that they didn't. 

The mineral brown color for the top of the running boards is a deep red oxide or brick red on mine; the paint was loaded with sand to provide a grip, and that sort of color is more durable (think deep barn red) that the fancy work on the rest of the loco. It also extends to the cab floor, and also the inside of the tender - all for the same reasons - durability. 

The cab roof could be covered in paper (varnish/paint it down onto the surface, and wrap the edges and fix with glue), then you can mark the paper (it will/should make a dent in the paper) with a pencil to indicate the joins between the protective metal sheets fitted there. Finally add some rainstrips along the outer and back edges the paint it a several shades of 'mucky grey'. Finshit off with some streaks when the main color is dry.


When you have added the metallic paint over the black it may be an idea to varnish it when dry; to ad some protection. Boiler bands can be added from painted paper (and varnished). 

No need to worry about the difference in the position of the valve chest; it will just mean that the steam passages are slightly longer! Bachmann 4 4 0's have them inboard of the cylinder centerline.


It looks nice amongst the rest of the loco's. 

Congratulations, and welcome to the club of scratch builders










Thanks for the extra photos, look forward to the tender, is it going to be 4 or 6 wheeled?


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks for the comments and the compliments, Peter. 

Part of the fun of making a freelance model is that I don't have to worry quite as mich about what any specific builder did. To me, the firebox looked like a very large area to leave exposed on such a small boiler, so I put lagging around it. I've decided that the engine looks a lot like a Porter, but that was more accident than intention. I've been borrowing freely from Porter, Baldwin, Mason, Rogers, and any other builder which made something nice. 

Thanks for the suggestion on the cab roof. I've been wondering how I was going to get that look. 

I'll definitely be varnishing, or at least clear coating in some way, the boiler. I have an idea which I'd like to run by the folks here. Might even try it out on some scrap. Basically, make the boiler bands from .005" brass, and glue them down. Paint the whole boiler "russia iron," seal apropriately, and then tape off everything other than the bands. Sand the paint away, buff and polish the brass, remove the tape, and clear coat the entire thing. Does that sound feasible? I'd rather not try to glue the bands to a painted boiler, since there's no room for error at that point. 

The tender, whenever I get around to it, will be 8 wheeled. I played around with 4 and 6, but I decided that I really like the Mason trucks, and I like the way an 8 wheeled tender looks. Of course, I may still change my mind, but that's the plan at the moment.


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Ken, 

Brass can over time discolour, which is why I suggested that you use painted paper; it may be an idea to add some thin paper ones now (before the metallic paint) to give you the location of them; when painted lay on the painted versios on the now showing locations, then varnish down the lot. 

No sanding off required with the possibility of marking the lovely finish you will have with the metallic paint, don't forget to buff it up before varnishing, which will make it a touch darker normally.


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm sure the mineral paints came in a variety of tints over the years, Jim Wilke and Jon Davis have consistently shown it as a dark brown, with not much red in it at all, its not necessarily oxide red that one thinks of, just a mineral based paint. But I agree, go with the tint you like. I generally go with a Linolium brown, which is a dark brown, with slight red tint, and then dust over that some matt black, which adds a speckled finish, giving the look texture and also deepening the colour. Checkout My Mason Bogie #42 for some close up views of this finish. Jim Wilke did the painting on the D&RG 'Music Pass' C-16 dark green and mineral brown as seen in my web site, and you can see how deep it is in the photos as well. 

Conversely, CP Huntington was restored in 1914 based on techniquies and painting that the shop crews knew of the day and times past, and painted the entire loco's running boards and tender top with yellow and grit added, yellow was more a safety feature so crews could see where they were walking. 

David.


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## cudak888 (Mar 22, 2008)

DK, I might be a little late in mentioning this, but I've had unbelievable success with the generic Plastic Epoxy (don't recall the brand name, though their 5-minute epoxy always invades every ACE Hardware I know of) for gluing styrene and PVC together. James' boiler is attached in such a manner. Won't tear off if you wanted it to. 

-Kurt


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Ken,

Thank you for all the series of pixes. Thank you VERY much for the one of the spring on the pilot. I've read and read of those, but never found a picture. And here is is. That info must come under the 'everybody knows' header, but your picture was worth a whole article, and the only one I've ever seen. Now I understand better what I've read.

Les W.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Les, 

You're welcome! It's nice to know that something I'm doing is useful to someone else. 

Are you referring to this picture? 









I don't know whether everybody knows it or not. I cooked the design up on my own. It's discussed in this thread, and based on the principles I found here. 

I had an opportunity to see how it works in a real-world situation this past weekend. On curves as low as 5' radius (the smallest we had to try) it works beautifully, holding the lead driver against the _inside_ rail in the curve. It also negotiates turnouts wonderfully. By leading the engine through the curve, it prevents the driver flanges from picking the points. There is no weight on the truck at all, except that of the wheelset and a negligible ammount from the styrene frame itself, yet it tracked perfectly. The downward angle of the wires provides just the right force to hold the wheels on the track. It even managed to go over leaves and their stems on the track without problem - a situation that would easily derail a smaller scale model in a similar situation. The tension is adjustable simply by bending the wires up or down as needed. 

There was some concern that the sideways tension was too great, but it worked out well for this engine. Total deflection on even the 5' radius curve was only a few mm, with no apparent tendency to climb the rails. An engine with a longer rigid wheelbase might need a somewhat softer spring, as the truck may swing further. Then again, a longer wheelbase doesn't need the lead truck as badly. 

I have a couple comments on the design itself, beyond the merits and function. First, by installing it on the bottom, I suspect that it would be rather easy to retrofit on more or less any model. There is nothing hidden, inside the model, or otherwise tricky about it. The design is about as simple as they come. Second, if I were doing it again, I'd have mounted the loco portion on a removable plate screwed to the frame, rather than permanently mounting it. I find that the springs get in the way of the bolt which holde the entire front end of the loco together. It's not bad enough to rebuild the whole thing, but good information for next time.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By cudak888 on 10/06/2008 6:55 PM
DK, I might be a little late in mentioning this, but I've had unbelievable success with the generic Plastic Epoxy (don't recall the brand name, though their 5-minute epoxy always invades every ACE Hardware I know of) for gluing styrene and PVC together. James' boiler is attached in such a manner. Won't tear off if you wanted it to. 

-Kurt

Inspired by your loco, I'm planning to glue some plastic to pvc as well--I'm trying to turn a bachmann big hauler into a PRR B6. if you can remember the brand that'd be great


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## cudak888 (Mar 22, 2008)

Devcon Plastic Welder: 

http://www.inventiondb.com/browse.php?cubeid=691 

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=G 

Very short set-up time, but I can literally spin the shell like a top with my fingers on the dome. Can't break it off either, if you wished. 

-Kurt


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

Good Lord that is an awesome website! Thanks for the link!


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Which one? The suspension design page? I agree - I think the guys in the UK are light years ahead of us in the US when it somes to model engineering, compared to just building static models. Most of the best quality finescale model parts and designs seem to come from or be based on stuff from that side of the pond. There's a lot we can learn there.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Dang Ken! That's a sweet little engine you've got going there! The proportions look absolutely right on and I love your color choices! I'm looking forward to seeing how this one turns out! One question: Will you be using Stan's decals to finish her off?


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 10/11/2008 10:50 AM
One question: Will you be using Stan's decals to finish her off? 


Thanks, Steve!

At the moment, I'm planning on asking Stan to make the decals for me. I haven't yet, because I haven't figured out exactly what I want, or even how big things like the tender will be. As soon as I have the basics down, I'll see what he can cook up for me.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

And the non-denominational, pan-dimensional omnipotent being said "Let there be light!" And it was done.


























Obviously, it's far from completed, but It's nice to have _something_ there.


Those are scrap styrene pegs holding it in place at the moment. I'll paint everything when it's finished, and either bolt it in place or glue with epoxy.

The reflector and bulb are from a mini Mag-light. I made a plug to fill the hole in the center of the reflector, then drilled new holes top and bottom, for the bulb and chimney. I've got a small glass tube which will be cut to length and glued in place as a chimney once it's time to assemble everything. My next task is to make the top and chimney cap.


By the way, is anyone familiar enough with the original model (B'mann 0-4-0 side tanker) to know what current the motor draws? I'm thinking that as small as it is, I could get away with an HO DCC decoder rated at 1 amp or so. I know that some of them have voltage limitations, which might be an issue, but is the current rating even worth bothering with?


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I made a little more progress tonight, while recuperating from a hard day of work laying flooring. The project of the day is driver centers. I really didn't like the ones that came on the model (why did almost every part of that thing look toy-like, anyway?), and I accidentally destroyed them while trying to remove them. So, with nothing to lose, I started in. Here's the result:









The new one is on the left, and still needs a little clean-up and putty. I'll probably also make some counterweight sections to fit between the spokes, just to add a little more detail. What doesn't show in the photo is that the ring around the crank pin is actually raised above the rest of the wheel by a millimeter or so. The red inside is from the red paint that was on the wheel, since I glued everything up in place to be sure it would fit. That decision caused a moment's trouble, when I realized I'd have to _very carefully_ remove the new creation without destroying it as well. If you look closely, you can see that the rim and spokes are tapered, which I hope will give them a much finer look on the finished product.

I've made up my mind, I'll be casting these, using the one I just made as a master. There are just too many finicky pieces to bother making 4 identical parts. I'm thinking I'll make a plaster mold and cast them in lead, to get a little extra weight. Besides, I've got the stuff, and elad casting is pretty easy - if I can get it to flow into the thin sections. I may also try casting them in resin, or asking someone else to cast them for me. While I'm at it, anybody else need a few?


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Frustration...

Sigh







My attempt at making a plaster mold didn't go so well.


In retrospect, I should have known better. The master had some spots with negative relief, and there was very little positive relief anywhere. There were some very thin sections. Plus, my plaster had lots of bubbles in it. I ended up practically destroying the mold getting the master out. I may have been able to pour lead anyway, and simply clean up the casting, but it wasn't the greatest to begin with.


Like so many of the parts on this engine, I'm having to make 2 for every 1 good one. In this case, hopefully I'll be able to make 4 (no casting this time) after the lesson of one bad one.

I know I can get there, it's just frustrating having to back up and start over.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I've been getting a little done here and there, I promise. No pictures yet, but I'll post some as soon as I have something to show.

My first attempt at a driver center was a failure (yet another lesson in how NOT to make a part), so I sat down tonight to start over. Just as I was about to cut some styrene strips and bend them to form the rim, I glanced at the original Bachmann parts. The front is ugly, but the back is almost exactly what I was about to make! They're even made of styrene, or some plastic that solvent welds like styrene. Out comes the saw, and in about 30 seconds, the protrusions at the centers were cut off. I sanded & filed the old counterweights down flush with the faces, and glued the new crank pin rings in place. Next, I'll add in the two missing spokes (where the old counterweight was located), make a "bell crank" plate to cover the center hole and extend to the new crank pin rings, and round off the edges. Finally, I'll mount new counterweights and it's off to paint!


In other news, The cab is coming along nicely. I've cleaned up some of the openings, added trim, and puttied the corners. All that's left is to make a protective plate at the front, to protect it from the heat of the boiler, and paint it.

Also, I've decided to glue my headlight bracket in place on the smokebox. The headlight will slide on from the top.


And finally, I've found a plan for a tender. It's a Mason design for a standard gauge tender used on the US Military Railroad. I find it interesting that the plan is for a standard gauge engine, but it's printed at a scale which makes the wheels the same diameter as the ones I have on hand. The only thing I'll change is the height of the tank. Does anybody know what an appropriate height would be for a tender tank?


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Kenneth,
I have some NG loco drawings you can use, one in particular which would be appropriate for this loco. Drop me an email and I'll attach. The Mason tender is probably not quite right for this lil loco.

Thanks mate,
David.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

David,

I appreciate your suggestions! E-mail sent, as per request.

Here's a quick and dirty (well, maybe not so quick...) photoshopped idea of what I have in mind for the tender.










Now that I see it, I'm not sure I like it. The wheels seem a bit puny under there. Unfortunately, I already have the wheels, so whatever tender I build will use them. The drawing was adjusted in scale to fit these wheels. I really like the Mason trucks, but now that I see the whole thing, something is not quite right. Opinions and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I played around a little more. Aside from the obvious, coloring the tender, I shortened the tank a bit. I think it looks a lot better this way.








I'm thinking about putting a tool box behind the tank, instead of or in addition to tool boxes on each water leg.


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