# mixing track



## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

Wondered if anyone has ever had trouble with mixing brass, stainless, and nickel plated track? I know from engineering school that putting different metals together can create a galvanic cell and therefore the metals can corrode. Seems like there were some values for the different metal combinations that gave an idea of how bad the problem would be but even though I am still just a young guy, I have many years of experience being a young guy and those days were a while ago and memories of that boring stuff is foggy. Sometimes I see different track for sale that looks interesting and not sure if adding them with other different metal track would be a bad idea.

Doug


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Depends on your environment and also the joiners/clamps you use. In general the SS and Nickel plated track do not react with anything. Brass as always will oxidize, and can corrode in the right environment. 

Unless you have an unusually acidic or alkaline condition, or a whole lot of water, I would not worry at all. 

Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

No there is no problem with mixing Stainless Steel, Brass, and Nickel Silver alloys. The problems begin to arise when you mix Aluminium into the group... Once you have Aluminium rail with a high salts concentration (i.e. a high level of soluble minerals) then you will galvanic corroding of your equipment. This is the same principle as the "sacrificial" Aluminium electrodes fitted to oceanic Steel drilling rigs and Maritime shipping. Anodising the Aluminium would prevent corrosion -but at the expense of conduction as the anodising process produces a non conductive protective layer. There are several companies producing anodised rail, PECO and PNP are obvious examples.

regards 

ralph


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So Mr. cabbagepatch (you said it's not Ralph), brass and other alloys have no problem in an acidic or alkaline environment? I beg to differ, I've seen all brass rail EATEN away by apparently the soil characteristics in Arizona. 

I've seen it first hand, so just saying there are "no problems mixing" is wrong. NO is an absolute word. There is always SOME galvanic potential between dissimilar metals. Basic physics. 

Also, it was Nickel Plated Brass, not Nickel silver that was requested... not that this changes the answer, but Nickel Silver oxidizes much more easily than SS or Nickel plated stuff... 

It's a question of how much, and now it comes back to environment again. 

I submit without knowing the environment you cannot state an unequivocal "no problem". 

Greg 

p.s. Derbyshire?


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Very well Mr Elmassian... 

The alloy used by the Gauge '3' Society is *CZ121* thus : 58% Cu, 3% Pb, and 39% Zn. If we assume that the piece of track next to it is a piece of PECO Nickel Silver which is *715* thus: 86.6% Cu, 10% Ni, 1.4% Fe. Then the highest electrochemical potential is between the Cu and Zn -which is found in the CZ121 alloy rail. The process you are more than likely describing is electrophoretic attack, i.e. attack on a current carrying conductor. Since the enquirer did not specify that the track had to carry current or voltage or AC or DC flux then the statement above still stands as valid. If you want to bring extreme environmental conditions into it then please note that Titanium coated rail is used by the Italian Railway systems in some areas due to attack by volcanic gases.... 

I used to design liquid cooled computer systems. These normally came in 3mm thick Stainless Steel cabinets and were fitted with Brass and Nickel Silver alloy unions. The coolant was Sulphur Hexaflouride at a pressure of 4 BAR and a working temperature of around 400Kelvin. The minimum operational life of these systems was 5 Years. I *do* know my alloys. I *do* know my chemistry. I *always* reference my replies in a true commercial manner... 

Your Respectfully 

R.Brades B.Ed B.Sc M.Sc M.I.A.A.P. Ph.D.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just objecting to saying "no problem" without any information on the environment. 

I do remember you mentioning several times about your designing liquid cooled computers. More than a few. 

Are you still saying "no problem"? From your 5th sentence, I read that you are saying yes. 

Well, liquid cooled computers and titanium railways aside, I've seen rail corrosion and erosion... Maybe you know alloys, and chemistry, but I've seen garden railroads... and quite a few of them. I've had 3 different kinds of brass track and 2 different alloys of Stainless Steel... 

So "no problem" means to me that he cannot have a problem. I've seen enough problems that I will stick by my experience. I have enough college degrees to know that I don't know EVERYTHING, and that just because what I know does not explain it, I don't deny the reality in front of my eyes. 

I'll stand by my answer also, that it depends, "Unless you have an unusually acidic or alkaline condition, or a whole lot of water, I would not worry at all. " 

The OP can believe that it's impossible to have a problem (your statement) or that the environment could make a problem if it is unusual. I've seen situations where first glance is nothing out of the ordinary, but the problems with metal indicated there was more that met the eye. 

Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe my problem is that my training in science is that there's rarely ANY absolutes (notice I won't even say never). 

Speaking in absolutes limits the answers and I believe your thinking, i.e. once you say everthing is X, that is "inside the box", then that's it, nothing else is possible since you have said "no", "never", impossible. 

If you were an ordinary Joe, then I probably not say anything.. but being a self-professed expert in many areas, and if I remember correctly, a professor, I guess I think you need to meet a higher standard, as I was trained by many professors of indisputable expertise. 

Perhaps this is unfair to you. If so, I do apologize, I'm probably way too passionate about being a member of a scientific community. 

Greg


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

I ain't no engineer or Ph.D and do not have any scientific data to back me up. I have nickel plated LGB and brass LGB hooked together with Hillman brass clamps for over 4 years with no problems. My environment is So. Cal about 20 miles inland. Recently i just added some Train-Li ProLine nickel track switches into the mix and expect no problems.

Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

I have a masters degree in physics, I've worked 23 years in the physics department at a university before retiring two years ago, before that I worked in various engineering and other technical jobs, and I don't consider myself to be an expert on anything. When theory and experience disagree, I always believe the experience. I had a professor (PhD physicist) in the office across the hall from me tell me once that what I reported from the lab couldn't be happening, it didn't agree with the theory. I said, "Yes it is happening, and it does it every time over and over again." He gave me a lecture on why I was wrong. I finally had to take him to the lab and show him. He couldn't disagree with what he was seeing and finally, after going back to his office and agonizing over this for a couple of days and doing some searching on line he realized that his theory only applied to ideal materials. I will admit that sometimes what you think you're seeing isn't what is really happening, but it often doesn't matter. Yoou have to live with reality not the ideal situation.
Bob
just my 2 cents which is worth that or maybe a little less.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Well, for the poor guy who started this thread....LOL, I guess you have to ask yourself how long do you want things to last? I am assuming you have track power (if you move to battery operation then the issue is more of how long the ties are going to last). Besides not knowing the environment (hot and sunny vs cold and damp) and whether your railway is inside or outside, then besides all the phyiscal issues with mixing and matching and what happens when you introduct electricity to the metals, I think the easy answer is you probably arent' going to notice anything specific. If outside, the different metals are going to weather differently and therefore you may have some asethetic comparison complaints. I kinda like brass and regardless of the manufacturer of the rail, I like to keep it all the same. So, good luck and remember, this is suposed to be a hobby and fun. Have a great one....


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By FlagstaffLGB on 15 Sep 2012 10:09 AM 
Well, for the poor guy who started this thread....LOL, I guess you have to ask yourself how long do you want things to last? I am assuming you have track power (if you move to battery operation then the issue is more of how long the ties are going to last). Besides not knowing the environment (hot and sunny vs cold and damp) and whether your railway is inside or outside, then besides all the phyiscal issues with mixing and matching and what happens when you introduct electricity to the metals, I think the easy answer is you probably arent' going to notice anything specific. If outside, the different metals are going to weather differently and therefore you may have some asethetic comparison complaints. I kinda like brass and regardless of the manufacturer of the rail, I like to keep it all the same. So, good luck and remember, this is suposed to be a hobby and fun. Have a great one.... 
Very well said. It's a Hobby and we or the tracks don't last for ever.
In our area, brass mix works just fine and a used track is cheeper.


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