# Beginner's Forum . . . Ouch !



## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

Let me first state that I'm posting this because I really like MyLargeScale.com. and I am reading a trend in the Beginner's Forum that alarms me.

Until recently questions posted in that forum were answered in a variety of ways. The poster could sift though the answers and glean a great deal of information. Off topic and wrong answer's were ignored or respectfully corrected.

I no longer consider myself a beginner. I was still reading the Beginner's Forum because I could still pick up a few tips and, on occasion, had an answer myself.

Not any more. That forum has gotten too hostile for my taste. It no longer feels like MyLargeScale.com. I get the impression that only a few 'experts' who post 'on topic' are welcome to post answers. It seems there is a new mission: "Protect the Beginners"

My suggestion to anybody who doesn't like the free wheeling way MyLargScale members post on the Beginner's Forum, please take a break. The hostility I sense is going to do more harm than the occasional off topic answer.

My personal solution: I no longer read the Beginner's Forum

Dave


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Can you give an example?????*


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

Nick,

If I need to cite examples I must assume my own sensitivities are at fault and not a general trend others are also feeling.

I'll stick to my stated solution and keep silent.

Dave


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You mean you'll keep silent after having made a very vague and broad criticism of other people? You won't give any specifics, just make a general denunciation?

I'm having trouble seeing how you can claim the high ground.

But from now on, if I am one of the people bothering you, I'll try not to do whatever it is I do that you seem offended by, to the degree that I can tell what it is. If I'm one of the people you're troubled by. Which I can't tell. I did just post something in the beginner's forum, trying to be helpful--I hope it was ok?


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

It's kind of tough for us as moderators to take action if there are no examples given.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Uh? 

Not only am I missing out on something, but I don't even know what it is I'm supposed to be missing out on. It's like one of those word puzzles with 64 empty squares that you have to fill out with words that all meet in the middle to spell something meaningful... 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I think a good example using my self for instance.
Is if someone ask a question and a couple may answer, then here comes Marty and the same two or three who have to exspond on and push and issue.

Or I hear in print a freind say, come on guys you have to blow this all out of proportion.

See I don't want to run folks off by being a know it all or heres Martys post again. I try to keep track of how many times I have answered .
Or what really is bad is if I go to the DCC forum and point out all the " facts "when I don't even use DCC or track power.
I try to stay off forums. Just because I have knowledge does not mean I have to push it when I don't even partake in it.

Many times I think its our own additudes that make us get tired or so and so.
other folks don't see it.

MLS is like a church, looks good, sounds good and they take your offering.
But wait till you get on a commity, or a board and behind the scenes. Now you see what some folks are really like.
Now your ready to find another "perfect " church.
back to work.

I just wish on the beginner forum the new folks would give more info on what "level" they are at to recieve the best help.

Maybe it would be hlpeful w/o bashing for folks to e-mail Shad what the examples are and what needs to be done.

I know of folks in the same club who don't get alone. My solution was to spend time with them separtly. I get to know the real them.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

You mean you'll keep silent after having made a very vague and broad criticism of other people? You won't give any specifics, just make a general denunciation? 

I'm having trouble seeing how you can claim the high ground.
This isn't the Beginners forum, but that response seems rather hostile to me Mike.  I don't think Dave intended a 'broad criticism of other people' nor to 'claim the high ground.' Rather I think he posted his genuine concern for the forums and a trend he perceives. Whether or not we agree with that perception, it's still his perception and deserves polite and due consideration on its own merits. 

Seems to me that people in general have been a little edgy lately as well, and are willing to argue for little reason. Maybe we all need to think for a second before we post. I very recently found myself in a bad situation because I was unclear as to the intention/inflection of my post and someone took offense. I apologized, but the member still chose to leave. 

Dave - if you'd rather, send me a few links via email or PM and I'll try and look into it.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Maybe we all need to think for a second before we post. 


May we all need to take a break, go out and run some trains....


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

AMEN BROTHER'S !!!!!!!!


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Thank you Dave for raising this issue! LAST WEEK I wrote to two of the moderators and Shad about the rather negative turn that MLS has taken over the last number of months. Unfortunately I did not receive either an acknowledgement or an answer, so I guess I will have to air my grievances in public. This thread will probably get ugly, but it has to be said if we want ALL want to continue to enjoy MLS.

At first I thought it might be just me, but e-mail exchanges between myself and other formally active members has made me aware that they also feel the same way. As Bubba noticed, “I don't see some regulars here I used to see”. That’s because many got fed up, and like the members of Bubba’s group went somewhere else more positive for their hobby information. Those members that do remain are reluctant to post. Instead of MLS being the enjoyable place to exchange information on the hobby with friends, it has become an annoying and sometimes hostile place to visit.

In the past I enjoyed MLS as you could discuss all the manufacturers’ products and receive POSITIVE feedback. But more and more, it is becoming an unpleasant place to visit because the constant bashing of Aristo-Craft and Bachmann people and products and the rude manner in which the “power people” respond to MLS members who offer an opinion other than their vested interests.

I think the first incident that made me uncomfortable was the mugging of Stanley Ames. This member tried to post information of a proposed Plug and Play socket that Bachmann was going to use. To me that sounded like a great step forward for users of either DCC decoders or R/C receivers. But it quickly turned into a component by component criticism of the product, and degenerated into a character assassination of the MLS member. Don’t him around much anymore. Gee, I wonder why?

This year because of the economy, there have been very few new products brought to market. One of the few new products was Aristo-Craft’s new TE. Unfortunately my post on the installation and features of the new TE was trashed in 13 pages stretching over 4 months by users that have no interest in radio control. Anyone who had an interest in the product was quickly bullied into not posting. Don’t see me posting as often? Gee I wonder why?

Like many others, I am now reluctant to post anything on MLS. Instead of being an active 1st Class member, I only read the threads and seldom sign in or post. The only thing that keeps me hanging on is a picture of the many MLS friends I met before and will meet again at Marty’s Field of Dreams this fall.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*One of the nice things about this forum is usually if you speak the facts posting should be ok, sometimes yes, it gets heated, i for one do have a sore spot and most people here know what it is but im still allowed to post because it my opionion and the facts. some here like each other some cant stand each other buti dont think its ever gotten that far out of control that people are leaving by the bus loads.*
*Some here are super sensative about stuff others arent, just the way things go. i myself lately for the most part have decided that its not worth it to get into heated fights any more over toy trains, but i will express my opionion strongly if someone is caught saying a mistruth to deceive or misleed people, im trying to keep my mouth shut and not get to upset when people nowingly tell untruths. We also know Martys a trouble maker arent you Marty HE HE HE JUST JOKING....... In the end i just wanted to know what Dave thought was a problem, so i didnt get caught doing it myself. lets face facts we all like trains and we all have different ways and opionion about them and the way we deal with others when relating to this hobby. so Dave I offended you for any reason or anyone else on this forum, im sorry for that, but i will have my own way of expressing myself, sometimes good and some times bad but i for one will try to keep to topic of posts so as to not upset the newbies..* 
* Also what some people call bashing, others call pointing out all the facts and not just the ones that a few on the forums wish to carry over from the manufactures they have a relationship wish and work for.. so the word bashing to me is some people way of being a cry babys because they dont wish for ALL the facts to come out only what they want people to hear..*
*So my last statement would be, if your going to give your opionion about something, be prepared for someone else to have a different opionion than yours, because difFerent strokes for different folk and weather you like it or not, everyone is entitled to there opionion good or bad as long as the FACTS add up........... SORRY I NEED TO GO NOW,AS I MUST REPAIR MY ARISTOCRAFT MIKADO, as it slipped a driver again today after it was in use.....*


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Check this thread. Very good example of what I believe Dave is referring to. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...umid/23/postid/102493/view/topic/Default.aspx


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Paul Norton on 05/21/2009 4:15 PM


At first I thought it might be just me, but e-mail exchanges between myself and other formally active members has made me aware that they also feel the same way. As Bubba noticed, “I don't see some regulars here I used to see”. That’s because many got fed up, and like the members of Bubba’s group went somewhere else more positive for their hobby information. Those members that do remain are reluctant to post. Instead of MLS being the enjoyable place to exchange information on the hobby with friends, it has become an annoying and sometimes hostile place to visit.
_*I dropped out for 3 or 4 months, PRIMARILY because of the one you are currently fawning over!*_


In the past I enjoyed MLS as you could discuss all the manufacturers’ products and receive POSITIVE feedback. But more and more, it is becoming an unpleasant place to visit because the constant bashing of Aristo-Craft and Bachmann people and products and the rude manner in which the “power people” respond to MLS members who offer an opinion other than their vested interests. 
_*Paul, Paul, Paul. If there was nothing to bash, and no reason TO bash, there would be no bashing. Personally, I am highly offended that you would bring this "bashing" garbage in, when it is in no way bashing. When facts are there, with samples, photos, and quotes, it's truth.*_


I think the first incident that made me uncomfortable was the mugging of Stanley Ames. This member tried to post information of a proposed Plug and Play socket that Bachmann was going to use. To me that sounded like a great step forward for users of either DCC decoders or R/C receivers. But it quickly turned into a component by component criticism of the product, and degenerated into a character assassination of the MLS member. Don’t him around much anymore. Gee, I wonder why? 
_*Thank the Good Lord on high. Ever see the end of the Oscar Video? Every know what the reason is everyone plays whack-a-mole whenever he pops up?*_
_*Got any idea of the history, or are you just spouting P.C.?*_
_*Great step forward?*_
_*Really?*_
_*Got a box of them. Maybe they'll be worth something to a museum someday.*_


This year because of the economy, there have been very few new products brought to market. One of the few new products was Aristo-Craft’s new TE. Unfortunately my post on the installation and features of the new TE was trashed in 13 pages stretching over 4 months by users that have no interest in radio control. Anyone who had an interest in the product was quickly bullied into not posting. Don’t see me posting as often? Gee I wonder why? 
*Ah, yes, the Inventor of LS R/C. I could claim I inverted something before anyone else, but, you know, I was too busy with other things to bring it to market.*
*Maybe some of those folks in 13 pages had more expertise than you did?*
*Nah.*


Like many others, I am now reluctant to post anything on MLS. Instead of being an active 1st Class member, I only read the threads and seldom sign in or post. The only thing that keeps me hanging on is a picture of the many MLS friends I met before and will meet again at Marty’s Field of Dreams this fall. 
_*Join the club. At least someone didn't call you a "dinosaur" (or however it was spelled), or a "high-priced installer".*_
_*Or, wrote letters and did his level best to get things done his way? (Note: No Names).*_
_*So, tell me, what part of bent crankpins, crank bolts loose from the factory (tighten them, won't run), motor screws falling out, do you disagree with?*_
_*What part of making it right from the get-go so the consumer doesn't have to mess with it (and a lot of those consumers do not have the skill level......if you don't believe that, then why push for a "plug-and-pray" and not screw terminals?) do you have an argument with?*_
_*This I gotta hear.*_
_*From reading this, it appears you espouse garbage from the manufacturers, no complaining allowed, and go fix it yourself in silence?*_

_*Remember, this is NOT the mandated "talk nice" Polk Fawning Site.*_
_*People speak their minds here, right?*_


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Dave, I am a newbie as well. Joined at the beginning of the year. A lot of information that I have picked up comes from the "Vets" on this forum. 

That being said, I do know that I have put my foot in my mouth and have been "corrected". Not with an intended negative approach, however and in the written format the "correction" posting can be mis-understood. I have overcome this with an attempt to soften up my participation as to how I reply or challenge various threads. But trust me and as many know... I do make my comments known, for better or worse..









I do know that there are times when I feel like the "outsider" and suspect that other Newbies feel the same. How many, I don't know. 

I do know that this motley forum crew, for better or worse, are a solid and opinionated group. I thank them for the open bantering. I learn from this. 


As for negativity and attacks on a posting I do indeed see this. Attacks are not necessary as the posting simply reflects on an opinion. Just that and no more. This is where the forum needs to pay attention in my opinion. In other words, sarcasm is not called for here. 


Now, I do believe in levity as it applies to forums and in particular this type of hobby: 

Nick: You be the guardian of said trains with "vertical rails": 















Semper: You be the guardian of .... ( I really don't know and I need to buy an errant loco ) 













Dave, hang in there.... how many ways can the written word be interpreted on forum? Well to answer that, how many ways can the Bible be interpreted??? 

We all need to slow down and enjoy rather than compete. 


gg


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Paul,

You posted "...I think the first incident that made me uncomfortable was the mugging of Stanley Ames. This member tried to post information of a proposed Plug and Play socket that Bachmann was going to use. To me that sounded like a great step forward for users of either DCC decoders or R/C receivers. But it quickly turned into a component by component criticism of the product, and degenerated into a character assassination of the MLS member. Don’t him around much anymore. Gee, I wonder why?" 
Might I suggest that posting a summary of your take is most misleading. You might've at least touched on the major points of the discussion, which were far more complicated than your synopsis would lead the casual reader of this thread to suppose. My own summary of the 'character assassination' charge can be summed up simply by noting the gentleman in question had commercial ties with, and a political agenda, that he was pushing for one of the trainmakers. He erred in trying to b.s. a Phd and two old hardware men by using the 'baffle 'em with bs' technique. In short, he could not intelligently address factual technical objections. His purpose was to run a poll which he could then massage and pass off as comprehensive. 

Why isn't he around? My best guess would be no one here is in the market for feathers. If you recollect, he finally had to call in a heavy hitter to quell the peasants. If you recollect a bit further, you'll remember that the moderators let it play out so that anyone interested could discover the full story of why the K-27 is the way it is. (Or was, they might have fixed it for all I know.)

Perhaps Dave was having a bad day. We all do. In the few, scattered posts we've exchanged, he was always helpful and friendly toward me.

Do I think there's a mean streak in that forum? Absolutely not. Do I think MLS is getting hostile? Nope. Someone likened this board to a church with the usual negative connotations. What can be expected of a disparate group of people congregating for a single issue, in this case Large Scale trains? In any group like this, there will be a small, dark cadre with a circular feeding pattern, which cannot be placated.

As I wrote once before, 'It is impossible to post anything that some one, some where, will not elect to take issue with.' I stand by that.

Les


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't you all just love the smell of napalm in the morning? 

1. If you read something somebody wrote, and it can be interpreted two ways, assume they meant it the way that po's you the least. 
2. If you're upset and tempted to write a harsh post, let it sit for 20 minutes before hitting send -- and not so you can sharpen your retorts. Give yourself time to calm down. 
3. Sarcasm and dry humor just don't translate into the written word very well, too many people will assume you're being mean. 
4. Inside jokes, and good humoured friendly insults don't work well either.... people who aren't 'in' on the gag actually think you're serious! 
5. Most casual readers really don't give a rat's heinie about why you're mad at so-and-so. He MAY well BE the world's biggest cretin, and strangle kittens for fun and profit, BUT, they want to discuss x, not hear about how he screwed up y, AGAIN. If you can't resist, post your manifesto someplace else, and put a link to it. That way those who've already heard it, or don't want to hear it, don't have to wade through 300 tons of manure just to find the pony. 

Sad old world isn't it?


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

It's kind of tough for us as moderators to take action if there are no examples given.

i don't think, that it is something for the moderators to put their fingers on. 

to me it seems more like some undercurrent. 
so i understand, why Dave does not point to specifics. 

well, i am a foreigner, and it might well be, that i missunderstand things for lack of language. 
but, everybody, who does not understand Daves point, should reread that thread, where a new writer asks about a power source, that might be compatible to future DCC. 
and they should try to read it with the eyes of someone new to the hobby. 
there are some excellent answers, like for instance that from George Schreyer. but there are other answers too. 
that guy did not ask to be drawn into the eternal power-system wars! 

one of the first really controversal threads i witnessed here, was the one about the bachmann electronic addition. 
well, that is, what forums are for. to discuss. (maybe with a little less blows below the belt) 

but "advanced" controversies should not be taken to the beginner's corner. there should be answered by the "KISS" principle. and in a friendly manner. 

i am not new to Gscale(since '69). but i am fairly new to the net. 
when i looked for Gscale forums, i naturally first looked up the german forums. 
they seemed too hostile and too elitistic to me. 
looking on, the friendliest forums i found, were Gscale-mad and MLS. 

but, little by little i get more shy to post here, what i do, or what my unworthy experience with cheap toys running on simple trackpower teached me. 
somehow i get the feeling, if it is not at least half a mile long, or if it did cost less than four digits $, it is not worth to be mentioned here. 

well, i'll stop here. even if it may be worth nothing to others, it allready was more then two cents from me.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 05/21/2009 8:13 PM
but, little by little i get more shy to post here, what i do, or what my unworthy experience with cheap toys running on simple trackpower teached me. 
somehow i get the feeling, if it is not at least half a mile long, or if it did cost less than four digits $, it is not worth to be mentioned here. 

well, i'll stop here. even if it may be worth nothing to others, it allready was more then two cents from me.

Stay, and keep posting... I'd be lonely if I was the only one here with track powered cheap toys on a small layout


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Mik on 05/21/2009 8:19 PM
Posted By kormsen on 05/21/2009 8:13 PM
but, little by little i get more shy to post here, what i do, or what my unworthy experience with cheap toys running on simple trackpower teached me. 
somehow i get the feeling, if it is not at least half a mile long, or if it did cost less than four digits $, it is not worth to be mentioned here. 

well, i'll stop here. even if it may be worth nothing to others, it allready was more then two cents from me.

Stay, and keep posting... I'd be lonely if I was the only one here with track powered cheap toys on a small layout













I totally agree. I say no more. 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Paul, I believe much of your post is aimed at me. Feel free to actually state it. I can take honesty. 


"LAST WEEK I wrote to two of the moderators and Shad about the rather negative turn that MLS has taken over the last number of months. Unfortunately I did not receive either an acknowledgement or an answer, so I guess I will have to air my grievances in public. This thread will probably get ugly, but it has to be said if we want ALL want to continue to enjoy MLS."

Even if I was a casual observer, I would take issue with this paragraph. 
[*]Why did you have to write to 3 people? [*]Why can't you wait for a response? (especially if you have made a number of accusations that need to be verified?) [*]And why does it HAVE to be said if "we" all want to enjoy MLS? (I believe you believe you speak for everyone) [/list] I do not agree with your foundation of reasoning here. I see 3 places where I think the foundation is shaky or faulty. 


"At first I thought it might be just me, but e-mail exchanges between myself and other formally active members has made me aware that they also feel the same way. As Bubba noticed, “I don't see some regulars here I used to see”. That’s because many got fed up, and like the members of Bubba’s group went somewhere else more positive for their hobby information. Those members that do remain are reluctant to post. Instead of MLS being the enjoyable place to exchange information on the hobby with friends, it has become an annoying and sometimes hostile place to visit.

The composition of forums change over time. One forum I used to frequent has lost all of it's experts in my opinion. They were chastised for speaking frankly and honestly and factually about problems. I think that while your perception may be different, I can tell you factually that this is the most active forum I can find. There are more posts and activity here than anywhere else. It's not all annoying or hostile, but sometimes things get heated. People have opinions and many people do not want to hear something different than they believe, whether it is factual and objective or not. 



I used to be on a forum where there is a "Polyanna" attitude. "All positives and no negatives". Not surprisingly it is a manufacturer's site. 


I was given a choice between staying and never saying anything negative about the manufacturer's products again, or being banned.


How can I talk about why the drivers on the steam locos keep loosening without saying that there is a problem? I see you have the problem too, although the manufacturer will not admit or rectify the root problem.


"In the past I enjoyed MLS as you could discuss all the manufacturers’ products and receive POSITIVE feedback. But more and more, it is becoming an unpleasant place to visit because the constant bashing of Aristo-Craft and Bachmann people and products and the rude manner in which the “power people” respond to MLS members who offer an opinion other than their vested interests."

You are only interested in "Positive feedback?" This is definitely "Pollyanna". There are sites where this is the rule. I believe your definition of "bashing" is ANYTHING negative. Critical, factual, objective review is NOT BASHING. 

I own Aristo and Bachmann products. There are some nice things about them and some things that need improvement, and in some cases, terrible things, like the lack of UV stabilizers in outdoor track, or wheels slipping off axles and destroying valve gear.



I do want to address your phrase "vested interests", though:


Paul, you became a big supporter of the new Aristo TE system _shortly _after you took possession of your FREE system. All of a sudden you started showing up everywhere embracing the product. You were very upset when not everyone shared your enthusiasm. This product has many features, many good, but some need improvement, and some of the advertising is blatantly untrue. This appears to upset you. 

I took a cue from George Schreyer when I started in the hobby. I was thrilled to find his web site, and all of the objective, frank, and factual information on it. This is a quote from his "tips pages":




"Nobody pays me to write this stuff so I am free to write what I think as long as I stay within libel and slander laws. I do try to be completely fair in my judgements of the equipment discussed. If I see something that I think is worth noting, be it positive or negative, I'll bring it out. There seems to be little point in exposing a product feature*** without also suggesting a remedy for that feature.


*** For reference, I have a personal definition of a feature (as opposed to a bug) which is best described in terms of software. A bug is an unexpected behavior. A feature is an unexpected behavior that is documented."

No one pays me anything and I do not ask for nor accept anything from any manufacturer (as you did with the Aristo TE). The only things I have ever received "free" were *unrequested*, and they are: 



One jar of Aristocraft "Electralube", which appeared in a box one day with no paperwork, it was shipped from Aristo. Since there is a thread on "catastrophic failure" of plastic sideframes of Aristo equipment on the Aristo site, and it is responsible for the complete destruction of hundreds of Aristo sideframes (documented on the site), it must have been some kind of joke. I went to the garage recently to look at the jar (which is still sold as plastic compatible) and it is *sitting in a pool of grease, the lubricant has attacked the very container it is sold in.*
One pre-production Aristocraft "Everest" power supply. I received it unrequested and found that it shuts down immediately whenever connected to my DCC booster, even with no load. Leonard Kerns also received one of these and experienced the same behavior. He sent it back, Aristo "fixed" it and there was no change. I asked Lewis if he wanted me to return it, and he said no. I'll be damned if I'm going to pay return postage for this boat anchor. I gave the unit away in hopes it would work for someone else.
 So if you are talking about vested interests, I know you have one, and as long as Mr. Ames is married to Mrs. Ames, the sole importer of Lenz in the United States, it would be hard to say he did not have a vested interest. Does your club also get a discount on Aristo products? I think you need to stay away from this subject.


This year because of the economy, there have been very few new products brought to market. One of the few new products was Aristo-Craft’s new TE. Unfortunately my post on the installation and features of the new TE was trashed in 13 pages stretching over 4 months by users that have no interest in radio control. Anyone who had an interest in the product was quickly bullied into not posting. Don’t see me posting as often? Gee I wonder why? 
Paul, your post on the TE was not "trashed", there was a very good, in depth discussion of the features and performance of the product. You wanted the post to be "POSITIVE" and no negatives? So the problems with consisting (necessitationg *TWO *separate firmware upgrades), speed control, and sharing locos between users should not be discussed? *We should just buy it and not be educated?*


There were and continue to be exaggerated claims about this system, and many misleading and untrue statements, not only about the TE, but the manufacturer trying to "put down" the competition. I won't list all the FACTS that have been presented many times, but I feel strongly that the truth should be focused upon.


"Pollyanna" I am not, but I want to know and share the truth.


I want the most from my dollars, not to just be told everything is fine, just buy something.

Critical review is *not *bashing, the world is *not *just full of positives, but there are products that *need improving* and there are things we just need to *avoid*. 

I seek out those people who are not afraid to tell the truth at the risk of not being popular.


Regards, Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

This is so strange, I finally looked up Harry Chapin on Google, found "30,000 pounds of bananas", have it playing right now.....all the way into Scranton, Pennsylvania.


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

I am a newbie, I have been into trains for about 3 years now, this is a place that I look for ideas, and info about products, techniques, buildings, what to do and what not to do, I have learned so much from a variety of people who have posted there information, tips, and there know how, I for one would like to encourage everyone to post there stuff, thats how people like me learn, I try to respond or to post, but being so new I dont feel like I can add to much. 

I have beeen to Martys, and I was like a sponge trying to listen in on peoples conversation about stuff, I will go again to get as much info as i can, and to make new friends, and to meet some of the most incredible people who want to just share there knowledge because they love trains. Marty was so nice to take me around and show me stuff that he had done, I should of taken notes, but... I talked to Ric Golding, JJ, Bubba, Stan, Jim,Jerry, and many more, just to pick there brain on stuff.

I for one want people to honestly say what there experience was with any product, good discusions and debates help people like me, certian people are not afraid to jump in and help people, some get sick of answering the same old questions about concrete roadbed and ladder method and so on. Please understand that people find this site have no clue to look in the archives for stuff, they simply ask, looking for people to help them.

I would like to thank Shad and the moderators who take the time out to help everyone, and to all of you who help and share your knowledge to newcomers.

tom h


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a thorny one. There's no way to solve this issue and keep everyone happy.
but, everybody, who does not understand Daves point, should reread that thread, where a new writer asks about a power source, that might be compatible to future DCC. 
and they should try to read it with the eyes of someone new to the hobby. 
there are some excellent answers, like for instance that from George Schreyer. but there are other answers too. 
that guy did not ask to be drawn into the eternal power-system wars! 


but "advanced" controversies should not be taken to the beginner's corner. there should be answered by the "KISS" principle. and in a friendly manner. 

Personally, I completely agree with the above. However, that doesn't mean someone should be publicly taken to task if another considers his post either too technical or not technical enough, or for suggesting something slightly different than the poster of the question had in mind. Alternatives are usually good and may suggest another way of doing things that the questioner hadn't thought of.
1. If you read something somebody wrote, and it can be interpreted two ways, assume they meant it the way that po's you the least. 
2. If you're upset and tempted to write a harsh post, let it sit for 20 minutes before hitting send -- and not so you can sharpen your retorts. Give yourself time to calm down. 
3. Sarcasm and dry humor just don't translate into the written word very well, too many people will assume you're being mean. 
4. Inside jokes, and good humoured friendly insults don't work well either.... people who aren't 'in' on the gag actually think you're serious! 
5. Most casual readers really don't give a rat's heinie about why you're mad at so-and-so. He MAY well BE the world's biggest cretin, and strangle kittens for fun and profit, BUT, they want to discuss x, not hear about how he screwed up y, AGAIN. If you can't resist, post your manifesto someplace else, and put a link to it. That way those who've already heard it, or don't want to hear it, don't have to wade through 300 tons of manure just to find the pony. 
All good points and well worth considering.
As I wrote once before, 'It is impossible to post anything that some one, some where, will not elect to take issue with.' I stand by that.
Bingo!! 


As for the mods trying to solve this, I think that would be impossible. If we started wholesale editing of posts to make them "nice" I can guarantee you that people would be shouting for our heads for "censorship" (after doing this for nine years, ask me how I know  ). Some of those people may well be some of the same ones now taking issue.


The Supersocket discussion was allowed to go forth pretty much unhindered BECAUSE it could potentially affect the entire hobby - or at the very least, one of the hobby's main locomotive manufacturers. In fact, if you're into narrow gauge steam, Bachmann is pretty much the only game in town. I will be the first to admit that it did get nasty at times, but consider... if the mods had stepped in and started deleting and/or editing posts in an effort to keep it "polite", how many people would have been very angry because we were squashing honest discussion of something so potentially important? MLS is SUPPOSED to be a place where such discussion can take place, right? If the majority of members perceive a "dodge and weave", should the mods shut down the discussion because it's getting a little nasty at times? If we did, people would leave in droves, and rightly so.
OTOH, that doesn't excuse bad behavior either. Some people have an ax to grind, pure and simple. That's true on both sides of the fence. There are people who have had one or more bad experiences with "Brand X" and take every opportunity to poke them in the eye. There are others who will defend that same "Brand X" to their dying breath regardless of any and all evidence to the contrary. Ford vs. Chevy. I don't think the mods need involve themselves in this unless it gets really ugly. There's no changing the minds of people firmly entrenched in a particular point of view. It's like arguing religion or politics. After a time, their credibility will lessen of it's own accord, and if they behave badly enough and often enough, people will simply start to ignore them for the most part. Problem solved.

Bottom line, the general atmosphere of the forums isn't something that can be moderated into it any more than quality can be QC'ed into a product. It has to be built into it, not fixed retroactively (which itself is better than denying a problem exists at all). It's ultimately the members who make the forums what they are or are not. A discussion such as this one is healthy for just that reason as (hopefully) we all have to stop and take a look at ourselves and what we're contributing - or not contributing - to make MLS what we all want it to be - a fun and informative place to hang out, and honestly discuss and share our common passion for trains.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey. 
It ain't Ford VS anybody. 
Henry was first. 
Henry was right. 

Doesn't matter if Louis (Lewis?) Chevrolet was "thinking" about it before Henry was. 

My Fords still run just fine, approaching 60 years old, they are. 

The closest thing to a "Super Socket" is the vacuum tube sockets. 

Whatreya, new?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I always preferred Fords myself, but knew some really diehard Chevy fans. Then I finally got smart and bought a Toyota. hehehe Seriously, I had pretty good luck a with '57 Ford. Had even better luck with a Pontiac Fiero - drove it for 17 years with few issues. I burnt up the air conditioning compressor, but that was my fault for never using it and the seals dried up. Put three clutches in the thing though, and that was a known weakness of the Fiero. Other than that, it was problem free. 

Trouble was, I needed to start carrying trains and track to shows. Couldn't get much in a Fiero.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 05/21/2009 9:53 PM

The closest thing to a "Super Socket" is the vacuum tube sockets. 

Whatreya, new? 



But universal?

The new 15 page thread debate would be Octal or Loktal.... 

http://www.tubedepot.com/8pinocso.html

http://www.tubedepot.com/sk-8pinl.html

My smartass comment aside, Dave, I think you may be on to something? Octal bases are still used today for some industrial applications....


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

There are many good sources of balanced information available on the web for large scale enthusiasts that I have read without feeling the author was overly enthusiastic or had an axe to grind.

George’s Technical Tips as an example. He points out the short comings of a product, but usually provides a way of overcoming the problem or improving the product. I have never had a problem with anything that he has posted either on his site or MLS. For that reason I have often visited his site over the years, and never felt hesitant about referred others to it.

The articles that Ted Doskaris writes are another example of good information. His current thread on Aristo-Crafts double door boxcars in the Product Reviews Forum of this web site is balanced. He points out things that could be improved and suggests ways of doing it. He also gives credit to Aristo-Craft when suggested improvements have been made.

That is the way information used to be exchanged here: balanced, friendly, and helpful. But I don’t always get that same warm fuzzy feeling here anymore, although I know there are a lot of good people here as I have met a lot of them. You don’t hear any bickering at Marty’s Field of Dreams, just people having fun and enjoying each other’s company.

We shouldn’t have to rely on the moderators to remind us to treat each other with courtesy and respect. We are all in this hobby to relax and enjoy ourselves. This is not a contest or a test of wills. We are just big kids playing with toy trains! Try to be kinder to each other and to the people that go to trouble and expense of making our toys for us.

Yes, I will try to sweeten my tone as well!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sarchasm... the great depth between humors....and misunderstandings of the written word. 

I have no desire to upset those who may yet help me in the hobby. So I'll try to stay on the civil side of the track as I think was the intention of the thread spinner.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Dwight, thank you for so eloquently stating things. I really have a difficult time putting together the words to express my feelings on this subject and you pretty much hit the nail on thehead. If someone chooses to be offended and leave the forums, that is certainly their prerogative. I get emails all the time complaining that someone's being unfair, mean, has a conflict of interest, etc.. I've seen a lot of complaining that there's a problem, that people have left, etc.. What I have yet to see is someone propose a solution. I ask you Paul, Dave, and everyone else who's seen fit to complain, propose a solution. It's very difficult to come up with one. Like Dwight said, we as moderators are damned if we do, damned if we don't. I jokingly tell people that running a big forum is like being a kindergarten teacher.. You're constantly reminding kids to be nice to each other and trying to help them get over their hurt feelings.

There are indeed some members that have left, never to return.. We miss them and their expertise, but other members have come in and filled the void. There is a natural turn over in communities like this. It's just the nature of the beast. People lost interest in forums, get pissed off and leave, decide to go other directions with their hobbies, etc. But know this. MLS gets more posts and traffic than all of the other large scale websites combined. MLS is starting to have a serious voice in the hobby. People are taking notice. My job as webmaster is to make sure that everyone gets a fair share of that voice and nothing gets personal. I think we collectively do a good job at that. I can guarantee that this converstaion would not be happening if it was at a couple other websites, or it would have a completely different tone. This is why MLS succeeds.. Because everyone keeps things somewhat civil and there is a healthy multisided discourse.


With all that said, I will state that I do recognize there is a problem. New members seem to be turned off at times by some of the "lively" discussion here. Sometimes it can be an intimidating place. The dilema with which I am faced, is that I can't solve the problem on my own. I propose that if you don't like the tone of the forums, change it. Be helpful and welcoming to new members. Don't jump on them for asking the same question that's been asked 50 times before. If you see something going downhill, make a post to keep the topic on subject and positive. The worst thing you can do is to stop posting. By stopping posting, you are just giving the forums over to those you don't agree with. Together we can keep this a great place to come and chat about our common interest in large scale trains.


Thanks to Dave for bringing the topic up in the forums. I must admit I cringed and really didn't want to deal with it when I first saw it, but I think it has turned out a good healthy discussion.


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## Bunker (Feb 7, 2009)

Back-in-the-day I owned a small (diminutive) business and eventually learned that 'customer' complaints were part of my 'quality control department'. A business that ignores the end user's criticism will soon loose customers. Some of my favorite vendors are ones I have had a problem with their product or service and when I complained they resolved the problem quickly and to my satisfaction. 

I bought my first locomotive recently. The first unit I ordered was out of stock (or was a bait-n-switch??) another unit was shipped with broken and missing parts. The price was right, so I called and emailed both the supplier and the manufacturer about my complaint. NOTHING was done. That shows me they, (the supplier and the manufacturer) do not want my future business. 

I hope the customer experiences with the products we are looking to buy will be permitted to posted without rancor from the 'loyalists', solutions yes but ad hominen attacks are sophomoric.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a constructive way to share "truth or facts" and what needs to be done about it. 
And then theres the blow it all out of proportion and find all the dirt around the one issue and build on it. 

Both have facts. Its the additude behind it. 

For me,, If I want this site and the hobby to grow (which is my goal) Then I try to be as constructive as possible on how I share the facts. 

I'm not interested in proving the facts and problems being the main focus. Its part of dealing with others. 

My wife is now in a different department at Wall Mart 
she said there is the same problems but she does not have the negitive drain because all the people in this department deal with the problems in a positive way. 
She now likes to go to work.


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

For whatever it's worth....... 

I've been around for a few years, and have enjoyed this and other forums....but over time is seemed I was here (or there) more than in the yard or the garage playing/building/converting trains. 

A few months ago, I began a "Fast" of the net train forums...it turned out to be the best thing for me and my hobby. I finally got my track torn up and re-laid, finished 3 RC Conversions and played with my kids instead of trying to keep up with the conversations here or there... 

When I went back (logged back in/on) I noticed something...I DIDN'T really miss ANYTHING! Aside from a few interesting post, most of what had been written I'd seen before, and the usual arguments were still in full swing. 

Because of the renewed interest in playing with my kids, even my modeling mindset changed...Who cares what scale, they (my kids) just want to run trains! So it's Small LGB lokes for us, thank you! I've some Fn3 I'll be parting with soon enough. 

not that this has anything to do with anything, I just wanted to say it. 

Maybe some need a break, to get back to why you're even here in the first place, let the arguments continue...just don't be a part of them. 

cale


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been in the hobby and rail industry for over 50 years (garden RR 12 years) and I come to the forums to learn like every one else. By no means do I consider myself an expert, just full of experiences and trial and error learning. I think that the most folks give their honest answers of problems with products. i know that the manufactures do read what is being said. Sometimes they don't believe it is happening but hay where else can a company get all the free info on maybe a problem and resolve it. I like to call it constructive criticism. If they listen and make changes then we have helped both company and the folks that buy the products. If no changes then we have the option to no longer purchase. I have based a lot of my purchases on what has been said here and personnel experiences. I thing there is a ton of wisdom here and even the new folks bring things here that are valuable. Yes it gets a little dicey at times but that's our nature, just need to learn to control. So I say who ever you are join in and injoy the hobby. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

This is so strange, I finally looked up Harry Chapin on Google, found "30,000 pounds of bananas", have it playing right now.....all the way into Scranton, Pennsylvania.


Oh! I love that song! 

C'mon guys, lighten up.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Know what?

I'm going to start offering technical answers to some of these heavy topics.... ! 


Now that should stir the pot and get the Vets chattering... ! 


He...heee.....










gg


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 05/21/2009 8:13 PM
but, little by little i get more shy to post here, what i do, or what my unworthy experience with cheap toys running on simple trackpower teached me. 
somehow i get the feeling, if it is not at least half a mile long, or if it did cost less than four digits $, it is not worth to be mentioned here. 

IMHO he's hit it on the head with that comment.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 05/21/2009 8:19 PM
Posted By kormsen on 05/21/2009 8:13 PM
but, little by little i get more shy to post here, what i do, or what my unworthy experience with cheap toys running on simple trackpower teached me. 
somehow i get the feeling, if it is not at least half a mile long, or if it did cost less than four digits $, it is not worth to be mentioned here. 

well, i'll stop here. even if it may be worth nothing to others, it allready was more then two cents from me.

Stay, and keep posting... I'd be lonely if I was the only one here with track powered cheap toys on a small layout
















Me too!


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been watchin this topic for awhile now, and I restrained myself from posting! But the urge to purge has now got the best of me!!! Ha LOL!!


Have you guy's ever heard of?

1. This is a hobby we all enjoy, and want to make better. Share information, tips, tricks, and oh yes criticisms, critiques!!!!

2. Sometimes we take things way to serious, or become rivet counters!
3. The "truth" will always hurt someone! If you are wrong or proven wrong take it with a grain of salt, apologize, and go forward. Always "fall forward never back"!!

4. If ya can't take the heat or criticisms, stay out of the kitchen
5. If things become too much for you take a breather then come back later or take a timeout for a few days and come back things will look brighter I'm sure!

6. Always "say what you mean and mean what you say"

Not to be dramatic, but guy's Memorial Day is upon us! People died for our "Freedom of Speech" Let's not alter, reduce, analyze, or otherwise dishonor what they did for us to have this right!


Remember TODAY is the FIRST day of the rest of your LIFE. Never too late to change! 



P.S. The Regal's Train Show is on tonight!!! 7-9pm MST " Come on in and share, or vent we talk about anything" 


Crazy Train Guy's Garden Railroad Channel - Mogulus Live Broadcast


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

well, i'll stop here. 

sorry, i did not express myself very exactly. 
i meant to stop my ranting, not to stop participating in the forum. 
when i would be to the point to leave the forum, i would not try to make my point of view understood anymore. 

korm


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 05/21/2009 11:09 PM
Posted By Curmudgeon on 05/21/2009 9:53 PM

The closest thing to a "Super Socket" is the vacuum tube sockets. 

Whatreya, new? 



But universal?

The new 15 page thread debate would be Octal or Loktal.... 

http://www.tubedepot.com/8pinocso.html

http://www.tubedepot.com/sk-8pinl.html

My smartass comment aside, Dave, I think you may be on to something? Octal bases are still used today for some industrial applications....



















Oh, _now_ this dicussion *is* gettin' ugly. I WANT to engage the guy in discussion (knives, guns, explosives optional) who thinks a table radio is a good place for a loctal. I bloodied my teenage bid at financial independence doing home radio/TV repair during HS while trying to get one out. Fortunately, my father explained the best technique for removing one from a socket while interjecting such comments as "Hold still dammit!" & "Can't you take a _little _pain, for pete's sake?" & "Don't use those words around your mother." & "For heaven's sake, when I was a kid, we never even knocked off work for little things like this, we just wrapped a rag around it and kept on." Yeah, yeah. Spare me, already.

Loctals, indeed. Where's a moderator when you need one?

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dwight,

I say the moderators here do an excellent job. The latest 'good call' was leaving Greg's post alone. I found the part about Mr. Ames most enlightening. Particularly the reference to Mrs. Ames' business interests. Now I understand how Mr. Ames eats.

What gets lost in controversy is the fact that the membership of a board does in fact change over time, and newcomers need the background information--not gossip, facts--to help them understand the positions that are taken.

When this type of factual, if unpalatable to some is suppressed in the interests of 'PC', or 'harmony', that is wrong. It is worse when people who stand to benefit by the success of a certain product don't acknowledge same. Might even be called 'conflict of interest'.

Have this one on me --->









Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Mik,

You posted, "... He MAY well BE the world's biggest cretin, and strangle kittens for fun and profit,..."

You mean, you can make _money_ for doing that?? 

Hot dog.









Les


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

I'd like to thank everybody who posted. This is just the kind of dialog I was hoping to generate.

I feel I have really benefited from being a member of MLS and I don't plan on going anywhere. I don't want to vote with my feet. I want to work for improvement.

I do want to point out a couple of misconceptions about my original post:

1. I limited my comments to the Beginner's Forum. I expect a rough and tumble, give and take, in the more specific forums where in-depth knowledge is shared. I feel the Beginner's Forum is the place the most harm can come from the appearance of negativity. As it turns out, it seems to me that the same posters get along better in the other forums.

2. My concern was not over product or technical issues, but over how posters treat each other. The trend I see is toward intolerance, impatience, and lack of respect for other posters.

My intention was never to censure or ban, hence no specific examples. I didn't evoke the moderators for all the reasons they have pointed out. I just wanted to discover if I was alone in my feelings and offer a suggestion. As it turns out, better suggestions were offered. I love the "Golden Rules" of posting. Thanks Mik.

Dave


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I have a whole box of Loctal vacuum tubes. 
But, ya know, like the Stupi....errrrr.....Super Socket, never, ever considered them a "standard". 

My Gilfillan desktop has been restored (minature or octal base, can't recall.....think Octal), my RCA upright with Octals works fine. 
Hallicrafters has Octals. 
The one in the dash for the Ford has Octals. 

I even have a big box of 4-pin vacuum tubes.....remember those? 
Two fat pins, two skinny pins? 
Same "protocol" as a vibrator tube. 

There's something you don't hear much about anymore. 

Bets are high some younger moderator will figure that is something "x" rated and delete it! 

Power up, listen for the "hum", wait for the filaments to warm up. 

I remember my grandad's MK1 Jag.....the radio "head" was in the dash, the power and amp section under the driver's seat. 
Caused the whole seat to vibrate when you turned the radio on. 

Gemmer steering boxes. 
Borg-Warner electric overdrive. 
King Pins. 
Bias-ply tyres. 
4-wheel drum brakes (without power assist). 
Power assist units separate from the master cylinder! 
Generators! 
Magnetos! 
Crystal radio sets! 
Black powder, brass shell 12 Gauge Damascus barrel shotguns! 
Screw in house fuses! 
Knob and tube wiring! 
Cloth covered wiring.....car and house! 
NO COMPUTERS! 
Dial telephones! 
Strowger Switches!


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

Dial telephones! 

oh! you are not that old, as i thought... 
i still used the crank telefones with the friendly spinster at the central. 
(who connected you to the dentist, when you wanted to talk to the carpenter, because she knew, that the carpenter was at the dentist's...)


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Oh, yeah, crank phones. 
BTDT. 
27MC type in the USN. 

But, how about crank cash registers? 
That was pretty normal as a kid. 
Push the keys, the amounts popped up with flags, then turn the handcrank on the side..... 

http://www.prices4antiques.com/coun...el-452-Brass-Hand-Crank-Tape-Reel-C202759.htm 

Some had a lever like on a slot machine. 
You see one in "It's A Wonderful Life".


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Add to your list:

B.E.D. color coded resistors

wax sealed condensers

Striped plastic condensers with more color bands than a garden snake gone bad

AC/DC chassisies (they _light up your life...







) _as the old song goes

TRF & Regens (I learned on those because everyone was throwing 'em away.)

Split shifting

.22 cal 'shotshells'. (Sold to dumb grade school kids with rifled barrels.) Those may still be available for trick shooters.

Routinely shooting smokeless waxed shells through those damascus barrels

Rifles, shotguns of every description on the school bus during deer season--

and excused leave from school to hunt deer

steel fishing rods

wide-oval tires (Fantastic for wet pavement--not)

Effortless power steering

No a/c in cars

Swamp coolers for same

No chain saws for farm use

manual lift mower blades on tractors

always-live pto on Ford tractors--try to stop one spinning a brush hog, sometime.

Had an SX-99, an S-38-(?) (two half-moon dials) and an S-38D, in exactly reverse order

Oh, yes: TT scale trains.

And, when Lionel was king.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow! * you* guys are really old!!!


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

At least we don't live in Port Oldford!


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Making me feel like a Kid ! 

gg


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

How about 

Heathkit 
Knightkit 
Eico 
Cards in bubblegum 
Yankee screwdrivers 
Roadmasters 
AC the size of refrigerators (1954) 
Fahnstock clips!! 
The original Shopsmith 
coring watermelons 
Paper kites


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

oh yeah, crank cash registers. - reminds me of my first school holydays office job. with a crank calculator... 
that was, after i changed my crank grammophone for one, built in a radio with bulbs instead of transistors. and a green glastube, that showed if i was tuned to a sender. 

err... is this the offtopic section of the thread?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Stress relief... 

I had a crank call one time... 

Greg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

... and it wasn't even me


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Don't get me cranked up now....


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

my elder brother broke his arm, crankstarting his first car, a citroen. 

and fathers teached their sons to just shut up, when they didn't know about a topic. 

the last crank driven tools we really used, were a milk/cream separator and a butter making barrel. 

but there is hope for the youngsters. lately i've seen new crank-driven flashlights.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Speaking of old. 
I'm very greatful for all those who come to the Sept open house. 
But if you stand back it almost looks like a rest home ,work-release program.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Since we're on the subject of cranks -- I have this '37 Allis-Chalmers WC. It has a BAD head gasket leak, water into one cylinder, oil all down the side of the block. Been like that the whole time we've owned it. My ex's son painted it with a brush when he was 9... pretty much right over grease, rust, and booger welds... and quit when he ran out of paint, so one wheel is rusty, and some things don't match. The floats and needles also stick sometimes...... 

A LOT of guys with fancy high dollar restorations bug me about "When are you gonna fix that thing right?" In answer, I smile, turn on the gas (make sure it's OUT of gear), set the choke on, give the crank a short flip, take the choke off halfway, give the crank a second short sharp pull, then hop on the hard rusty iron seat and drive away..... 

Some old beat up things are rather hard to improve when you concentrate on what is REALLY important. 

And speaking of gears, if we all made extra effort to make sure our brains were fully engaged BEFORE putting our mouths (or fingers) in gear, we might not be having this discussion..... and LOOK like a bunch of cranks. (Full circle AND back on topic -- how yew lak zat Jac?


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## Schlosser (Jan 2, 2008)

Remember spinners on washing machines? And before that, the wringer rollers? Good for flattening a hand. And how the early Automatics had to be bolted to the floor?

The locktals were Phico's grand idea on how to keep the tubes from vibrating out of auto radios IIRC, which reminds me of how Motorola got its name. In the late 40's, I installed a Motorola in the dash of a '35 Plymouth. Really First Class. Joe Cool.

And the GE came along with their creation: three tubes in one glass envelope, compactrons they called 'em. Another rack of tubes in the repair parts bin.

Most of the rectifiers, 5U4, 80, 83, were 4 pin jobs. Since the rectifiers operated at B+ voltage, they couldn't use the 6.3v that the amplifier tube filaments ran on as their cathodes were close to ground level. 

Art


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Leave us not forget the good old "brace and bit" type of drill.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Still got mine, still use it, plus a BIG box of bits......


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By CCSII on 05/22/2009 12:59 PM
How about 

Heathkit 
Knightkit 
Eico 
Cards in bubblegum 
Yankee screwdrivers 
Roadmasters 
AC the size of refrigerators (1954) 
Fahnstock clips!! 
The original Shopsmith 
coring watermelons 
Paper kites 











Oh, Heathkits. My whole shop was outfitted in them when I was in late HS. You could buy 'em reasonable, assemble 'em, and use 'em. I had the VTVM for years, until the switch got too flaky to fix. Still have the isolation transformer. Works, too. (It was for isolating those ac/dc table radios.)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Made the color tv, scope, stereo amps and tuners, weather stations, etc. Told people that I would assemble them for free, it was so much fun. 

Unbelievably, they worked too!. 

Dynakit also made amps, preamps, fm tuners. 

Greg


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 05/22/2009 1:12 PM
oh yeah, crank cash registers. - reminds me of my first school holydays office job. with a crank calculator... 
that was, after i changed my crank grammophone for one, built in a radio with bulbs instead of transistors. and a green glastube, that showed if i was tuned to a sender. 

err... is this the offtopic section of the thread?









Not so far as I'm concerned--but then, who'm I? 

Zenith called those green tubes 'Magic Eye' tuners. I was fascinated by them--I think I'd still pay money to see one work.

I built a crystal radio in '56/7, somewhere in there. It wouldn't work. I climbed 'way the **** 'n gone up this huge oak tree and strung a single wire antenna. Nothing, unless a thunderstorm came along. Finally I got frustrated and threw it away. Some years later I learned a crystal set only had a receiving range of ~ 10-15 miles. I lived 50 mi from the nearest AM transmitter, and it was only one of these 1kw stations that went off at night, with the national anthem.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/22/2009 3:09 PM
Made the color tv, scope, stereo amps and tuners, weather stations, etc. Told people that I would assemble them for free, it was so much fun. 

Unbelievably, they worked too!. 

Dynakit also made amps, preamps, fm tuners. 

Greg








Heathkit made pretty decent stuff, if I remember. I never had problem one with any of them.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Ever seen the original "colour TV"? 
Was it Admiral or Traveller..... 

Rotating vari-coloured wheel mounted on top of the set, rotated in front of the screen. 
Original "rose-coloured glasses".


----------



## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I had the first generation of slot cars from AC Gilbert, they came out the second year with an updated and better version of the same slotcar set, which i had both but still have the second one, and it still runs!!!!! The Regal 

whoops, and who could forget the AC Gilbert Electronics shop, and the Weather station I had both of those along with 2-3 different versions of chemistry sets, and telescopes.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes Les, the Heathkit stuff was very good. 

I was making a self-deprecating remark about my ability to assemble a kit! 

Regards, Greg


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

i remember my first (and only) live steam loco. 
i connected my Wilesco steam mashine to the rests of a broken resortpowered tinplate marklin loco. i had to push it a little bit, to start. first try it did three slow rounds on the rails of pressed tin. 
second try it did half a quick round before the kettle broke. maybe i put too much of these dry fuel bricks... 
or my first plastic kit, an eagle, brought from the states in the mid fifties.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Art:

Hey, remember spinners on steering wheels? A lot of 'em had a seductive sorta-nude babe in the top face.

Les


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I remember the spinners on the steering wheel anyone remember the curb guard? Little wire sticking out the lower side of the car to let you know when you were close to the curb. Later RD


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

anyone remember the curb guard?

yes, noisy things. 
and foxtails at the tip of the antenna.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Les,

Those were called "brodie knobs" when I was a kid. My Dad's 1948 Buick Super came from the factory with one of these.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

While we're remembering old times....pull on your double-clutch boots and your chain-drive wallets and have a look:

http://web.archive.org/web/19961222144446/http://www.lgb.com/

Keith


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By gary Armitstead on 05/22/2009 4:00 PM
Les,

Those were called "brodie knobs" when I was a kid. My Dad's 1948 Buick Super came from the factory with one of these.









All I ever heard 'em called were 'spinners', or sometimes 'spinner knobs'. Didn't know you could factory order 'em. I'm told they're illegal, now. I believe they're collector's items.

I remember the 'curb feelers', but so few roads had curbs in our country, that they were just for show, to be cool. Like the mudflaps with the lit bulb(s).

Les


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

But then I was a city slicker and we had the curb feelers







. Later RJD


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 05/22/2009 1:26 PM
my elder brother broke his arm, crankstarting his first car, a citroen. 



My very first car (Citroen GS of 1972 vintage) had a hand crank. Used it once when the battery was flat, otherwise handy for servicing, setting points, etc. This would still be a handy feature on cars, especially at maintence time or when the battery is on the Friz. My second car (ID19) had this (the crank also served as the lugwrench) and a pushbutton starter solonoid on the battery. The French knew how to build cars, shame they lost this ability in the 1980s... My Renault R21 was the worst car I have owned, and we will not talk about Peugeot 405s....

And yes, VERY dangerous (especially in a "modern" higher compression car) if you did not know how to crank. Don't grab it, but push with the palm of the hand.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Boy did this thread ever get hijacked, so much for staying on topic..he he he By the way, what in the **** is a Heathkit and a spinner, and curb feelers? i will have to google this stuff. maybe we should start another forum called old timer stuff...


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 05/22/2009 4:03 PM
While we're remembering old times....pull on your double-clutch boots and your chain-drive wallets and have a look:

http://web.archive.org/web/19961222144446/http://www.lgb.com/

Keith



Hey, I have a pair of those yella resin pilot beam castings like the one on that shay! Those and the cylinder set came in a box of miscellaneous junk ...they actually WORTH anything?


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## SteveF (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a coffee grinder drill with bits that I inherited from my father, that he inherited from his father, that he inherited from his father. I also have a Yankee screw driver that I bought new. My lovely bride thought it was a new invention when she saw it in the Garrett Wade catalog. I also have a router plane, remember those? How about a radius plane?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep Nick you just gave away how young you are.







. You missed out on the good times. No hassles and no computers. Everybody was happy. Later RJD


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Les said: (spinners) "I'm told they're illegal, now. I believe they're collector's items." 

I feel sure they are illegal on autos, but your local tractor dealer will have a bucket full of them. No pinups though ;-) 

Jack


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## Guest (May 22, 2009)

steam was left out, 
everybody happily dwelling in memories, 
nothing changed in the beginner's forum... 
isn't life beautyfull? 

ps: Dave, i begin to see the personal advantages of your idea to abstain from participating in the beginner forum.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Interesting, I remember the 2 cent blackball... 

Time to set up a new forum called "Old-Timer-Trains" 











gg


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 05/22/2009 4:33 PM
Boy did this thread ever get hijacked, so much for staying on topic..he he he By the way, what in the **** is a Heathkit and a spinner, and curb feelers? i will have to google this stuff. maybe we should start another forum called old timer stuff...

















Great idea, Nick! When I started driving, FWIW, gas was 19.9 cents/gal. If you waited for the frequent gas wars, you could get it for 17.9.

You _are_ young. But don't worry, time will cure that.









Les

~Inside every old man is a young one, wondering what the **** happened.~


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like us "old guys" hijacked this thread through experience, treachery and deceit. The younguns will figger it out eventually. Hee! Hee!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By GG on 05/22/2009 5:48 PM
Interesting, I remember the 2 cent blackball... 

Time to set up a new forum called "Old-Timer-Trains" 











gg










GG, The 'Blackball' I remember meant you needed to see a doc, quick.









L.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By gary Armitstead on 05/22/2009 5:55 PM
Looks like us "old guys" hijacked this thread through experience, treachery and deceit. The younguns will figger it out eventually. Hee! Hee!
















Shhh! Them youguns learn fast enough. Everything you don't want 'em to know.

Let's tell 'em instead we're being kind to the moderators and up-lightening the mood. Natcherly, they won't believe us and will sit quiet for a good long while tryin' to figger out the truth.









Les


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

How about the "all knowing 8 ball?" Hee hee , and who could forget drive in theaters, and all nite horror fests????? The Regal


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By gary Armitstead on 05/22/2009 5:55 PM
Looks like us "old guys" hijacked this thread through experience, treachery and deceit. The younguns will figger it out eventually. Hee! Hee!









Funny.
When the local St. Arbucks has "issues" with their cash registers, I always ask the youngsters where the hand crank is...
But the absolute funniest is the look on the teller's face when I back the RHD Jag through the drive-thru.

Experience, and treachery win out every time!


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Gentlemen and in particular "old timers" 

For those who do not know what "blackballs" are, such is indeed a shame ...

I say no more at the fact that ye all be deprived of a true child treat. 

Rest in peace.... 



GG


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

blackballs"????


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yes Nick... blackballs... 

licorice tasting balls with a vanilla center. Hard and round.... Paints the tongue black... 

In the '50's and '60's, big fad with my generation. 


Suck on one for at least 30 minutes.. 


PS: Blueregal is having a live session starting in a couple of minutes. Do you have the link? I've lost it... 


gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Sounds like something i might have gotten from a bad night at the Bar.... HE HE HE







*


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Les on 05/22/2009 5:51 PM
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 05/22/2009 4:33 PM
Boy did this thread ever get hijacked, so much for staying on topic..he he he By the way, what in the **** is a Heathkit and a spinner, and curb feelers? i will have to google this stuff. maybe we should start another forum called old timer stuff...

















Great idea, Nick! When I started driving, FWIW, gas was 19.9 cents/gal. If you waited for the frequent gas wars, you could get it for 17.9.

You _are_ young. But don't worry, time will cure that.









Les

~Inside every old man is a young one, wondering what the **** happened.~


HE HE HE


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 05/22/2009 7:00 PM
Yes Nick... blackballs... 

licorice tasting balls with a vanilla center. Hard and round.... Paints the tongue black... 

In the '50's and '60's, big fad with my generation. 


Suck on one for at least 30 minutes.. 


PS: Blueregal is having a live session starting in a couple of minutes. Do you have the link? I've lost it... 


gg




http://www.mogulus.com/crazytrainguyschannel


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## Bunker (Feb 7, 2009)

Posted By Les on 05/22/2009 4:06 PM
Posted By gary Armitstead on 05/22/2009 4:00 PM
Les,

Those were called "brodie knobs" when I was a kid. My Dad's 1948 Buick Super came from the factory with one of these.









All I ever heard 'em called were 'spinners', or sometimes 'spinner knobs'. Didn't know you could factory order 'em. I'm told they're illegal, now. I believe they're collector's items.

I remember the 'curb feelers', but so few roads had curbs in our country, that they were just for show, to be cool. Like the mudflaps with the lit bulb(s).

Les


Those were necking knobs. If I have to explain, you may not understand.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Bunker on 05/22/2009 7:12 PM
Posted By Les on 05/22/2009 4:06 PM
Posted By gary Armitstead on 05/22/2009 4:00 PM
Les,
 
Those were called "brodie knobs" when I was a kid. My Dad's 1948 Buick Super came from the factory with one of these.



 
 
 
 
 
 
All I ever heard 'em called were 'spinners', or sometimes 'spinner knobs'. Didn't know you could factory order 'em. I'm told they're illegal, now. I believe they're collector's items.
 
I remember the 'curb feelers', but so few roads had curbs in our country, that they were just for show, to be cool. Like the mudflaps with the lit bulb(s).
 
Les
 
 
Those were necking knobs.  If I have to explain, you may not understand.  " border=0>


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

Hijacked, Yes. 

My first car was a 1930 Ford Model A. I was the second registered owner. I would use the crank to start it in the High School parking lot to impress the girls. When gas dropped to .10 a gallon I could fill it for a buck! 

Dave


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By cephius on 05/22/2009 8:40 PM
Hijacked, Yes. 

My first car was a 1930 Ford Model A. I was the second registered owner. I would use the crank to start it in the High School parking lot to impress the girls. When gas dropped to .10 a gallon I could fill it for a buck! 

Dave



Me too! Town sedan. Still have it!


Jack


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Had a 29 Tudor for years. 
"Massacree" we called it. 
Valentine's day, 1929, stamped on the front of the fuel tank.


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

My was a 33 Chrysler straight 8 with window shades and a butterfly hood.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 05/22/2009 11:47 AM
At least we don't live in Port Oldford!


Hey, not only do I live in _"Port Oldford"_, I live _over the hill_ from it!!


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Took you long enough to figure that out Gramps!


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Remember Major Bowe's "Original Amateur Hour"....round and round she goes, where she stops nobody knows....Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto and Chrysler. 
or...dot..ditty dot, etc., "Hello Mr and Mrs. America and all the ships at sea"...Walter Winchell? 
or...the characters of Allen's Alley...Fred Allen Show? 
or..."Gotta clean out that closet one of these days"...Fibber McGee & Mollie? 
or....Jack Benny's 1910(?) Maxwell; Rochester, Dennis Day and Phil Harris? 
or....for that matter, jus' plain ol' radio...without pictures yet!? 
or....Hoffman Easy Vision Television....had a ring of light around the picture tube that was supposed to cut glare and be easier on the eyes? 
or....Super Suds, Kellogg's Pep, Licorice pipes for a penny, Lone Ranger Frontier Town...on cereal boxes, Dime stores, Metal soldiers for a dime, Tootsietoy cars for a dime, WWII cardboard soldiers because metal was scarce due to the war effort, Gas ration stamps and cars with A, B, or C stickers on the windshield, The top half of car headlights painted out to make them less visible from the air, Red points required for meat purchases, Hancock Gasoline with the rooster emblem, Filling station car lifts outdoors, Restrooms always unlocked, premiums for gas fill ups, when UPS was little more than a shuttle service for Capwell's department stores and its warehouses, when Christmas was openly celebrated all over and carols played through speakers in the stores, Gene Autry singing Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer over the speakers in Montgomery Ward's (often called Monkey Wards)? 
Finally how many know where the term "23 skidoo" came from? Or..."In like Flynn"?


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 05/22/2009 11:52 PM
Took you long enough to figure that out Gramps!

I did it for you "oh great senile one"!


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Old people are sexy and everyone knows it ;-P Too bad I'm not an old people yet.

-Will


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

That would probably be "In Like *ERROL* Flynn". 
He was into anything in skirts, like a rat up a drain pipe. 
So to speak.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Young people won't get it? 

Don't forget, some of us youngsters are luddites, and own spinners (tractor), heathkits, etc. 

.....and Jack/Kollector.....we have known each other for about four years now, and I just NOW find out you have a Model A? 

Next you will tell me you are into Gravely tractors.....


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

A derail with it's own theme song....





Danged buncha old buzzards, aincha?


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 05/23/2009 7:11 AM
Young people won't get it? 

.....and Jack/Kollector.....we have known each other for about four years now, and I just NOW find out you have a Model A? 

Next you will tell me you are into Gravely tractors.....






Not seriously into Gravely's,  only have two! Have four Cub Cadet garden tractors, an original, a "70", "100" and Lo-Boy. The new queen is my 1960 German A-12 Holder. 4X4 articulated vineyard tractor with a one cylinder, air cooled, two cycle Diesel.


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## Guest (May 23, 2009)

anybody here old enough, to remember the Andrew sisters? 

or the Glen Miller sound? every allied broadcast played it through my first years. 
or Lilly Marlene? 

just saw this old movie again - the bridge over the river Kwai...


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Not old enough, but usually play Glenn Miller when running trains anyway--- MUCH better than most crappy sound cards. 

Prefer the Andrews Sisters and Bing Crosby to most of the 'organized noise' that passed for music over the last 20 years, as well.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Glen *.. who?*


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## Guest (May 23, 2009)

Glen .. who?

Miller - like plain crash.... 

or Jambalaya...
who hasn't heard it by Jo Stafford, hasn't heard it at all!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I just bought three Big Band CDs a couple of months back. Glenn Miller (two n's in "Glenn" btw) was one of them. Another was a compliation of various artists and includes the Andrews Sisters (Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy), Glenn Miller, Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey, and a host of others. I like jazz swing music!


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

If you remember the Andrews Sisters, you may remember the Ross Sisters from that same era. Take a look at them here: Ross Sisters

Don't give up during the first minute - watch until the end. The do much more than sing!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Thread drift at its best!


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Bridge over the river Kwai was just constant suspense over when they would finally show the train. *chuckle* 

-Will


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

See no problem or feelings hurt, or problems with conflicting personalities as we all have "attention deficit syndrome" also known as "thread hijacking" and forgetting what the serious nature of the original topic was!!! LOL The Regal 

"Never take LIFE too seriously" they say you will live longer.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As long as I don't get accused of "trashing" this thread too! 

Greg


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 05/23/2009 7:43 AM

A derail with it's own theme song....





Danged buncha old buzzards, aincha? 




I remember their older brother and his sidekick Waldorf.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 05/23/2009 6:27 AM
That would probably be "In Like *ERROL* Flynn". 
He was into anything in skirts, like a rat up a drain pipe. 
So to speak.


You win the cupie doll on that one Tony. Now, how about "23 skidoo"?


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hehe! I love the Statler Bros. I've got several CD's from them but they're much too modern to be a distant memory for the likes of me.  

I also acquired a number of CD's some years ago with all the big bands including Glen Miller, Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey and even Harry James among others. Ol' Harry plays the Flight of the Bumble Bee on two of them. Wow! Only one I never found a CD on was Spike Jones, a true study in musical discipline! hehe! 

Time Life offered the above as well as the Hit Parade on separate CD's from 1940 thru the sixties. Wish they'd offer them again as there's a couple I'm missing from the forties. Great artists like Bing Crosby, Andrews Sisters, Vaughn Monroe (remember him...Ghost Riders in the Sky?), Frank Sinatra, Perry Como, Frankie Lane, Fats Domino, Ink Spots....etc.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 05/23/2009 9:58 AM
Thread drift at its best! " src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />


Really more like "brain drift" Tom. Now...where was I?


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Before our house fire 22 years ago, I had all that stuff on either factory reel-to-reels or ones I had recorded. 
Including Doctor Demento, under the Smogberry Bush.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 05/23/2009 8:06 AM
anybody here old enough, to remember the Andrew sisters? 

/// Yep.

or the Glen Miller sound? every allied broadcast played it through my first years. 
or Lilly Marlene? 

/// Have Miller's CD 'Wartime Broadcasts'. FWIW, I hear the beginnings of early rock in some of those tunes. Not Elvis--the early suit 'n tie groups. 

just saw this old movie again - the bridge over the river Kwai...

/// Saw it when it came out. Subsequently read the actual story and now I don't want to see it again. Really like Tora, Tora, Tora, tho. Have a copy (VHS, been meaning to upgrade.)


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I have 3 reel-to-reels, one 8-track, a BUNCH of cassete decks, the only CD player is in the cup-holder on my computer and it doesn't work most of the time. 
I have my turntable, still, and a pile of vinyls. 
Dial telephone, still works. 
Flathead Fords. 
6-volt, positive ground, too. 
Heck, the Jag is the first "personal" car with A) disc brakes, and B) power assisted brakes! 
No power windows, no AC, no power steering, no automatic transmissions, no computers or fule injection, no electronic ignition (points and condensor!). 
No heated rear windows, no power mirrors (or seats), no tilt columns or cruise control. 
No power door locks!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By stanman on 05/23/2009 9:35 AM

If you remember the Andrews Sisters, you may remember the Ross Sisters from that same era. Take a look at them here: Ross Sisters

Don't give up during the first minute - watch until the end. The do much more than sing!



Oooooh! my ACHIN' BACK!









I can't even bend FORWARD even half that far.

I think I am paralyzed for life, just watching them bend over like that!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Richard Smith on 05/23/2009 12:09 PM
Posted By Torby on 05/23/2009 9:58 AM
Thread drift at its best!







" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />


Really more like "brain drift" Tom. Now...where was I? 









Rich,

Okay, thanks to Torb, Now I can safely ask, w/o being accused of thread hijacking, if you happen to remember a song out of the late fifties(?) called, 

"O Happy Day". It was sung by a basso profundo in a most delorous way, and tickled me every time I heard it. But I can't find it on Google, and keep ending up with the modern Urban Gospel. I'd pay for a copy of it! (not much, but I'd pay.)

Les


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 05/23/2009 2:01 PM
Posted By Richard Smith on 05/23/2009 12:09 PM
Posted By Torby on 05/23/2009 9:58 AM
Thread drift at its best!







" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />


Really more like "brain drift" Tom. Now...where was I? 









Rich,

Okay, thanks to Torb, Now I can safely ask, w/o being accused of thread hijacking, if you happen to remember a song out of the late fifties(?) called, 

"O Happy Day". It was sung by a basso profundo in a most delorous way, and tickled me every time I heard it. But I can't find it on Google, and keep ending up with the modern Urban Gospel. I'd pay for a copy of it! (not much, but I'd pay.)

Les


Rings a bell Les, but darned if I can place it. It must not have ever reached top 10 status much like "He wore black denim trousers and motorcycle boots, a black leather jacket with an eagle on the back...etc." hehe! I'll look and I'll let you know if I find anything.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Bill Withers? 
Edwin Hawkins?


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Ah, Edwin Hawkins it is. 
http://www.last.fm/music/Edwin+Hawkins+Singers/_/Oh+Happy+Day 
Turn your volume up.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 05/23/2009 1:27 PM
I have 3 reel-to-reels, one 8-track, a BUNCH of cassete decks, the only CD player is in the cup-holder on my computer and it doesn't work most of the time. 


/// You have stirred a regrettable memory, Thir: I used to work with a retired Chief (CPO) who had about all the old WW2 era music on records. I had a top-line 12" R/R recorder, a new bride with nothing to do all day while I was at work, so she recorded 3 reels of that music, a record at a time. Then one day in a move I still cannot explain, I put them on top of our new color TV set. And yes, I knew about degaussing on power-up. Some few weeks later we decided to listen to one of the tapes. Blank as my mind is, nowadays. I looked at my bride. "No! I'm NOT going to copy all that again! Do you know how long that took?" She could be fierce when she wanted to be. Especially in the pre-kid era.

....no electronic ignition (points and condensor!).

/// Ahh ... my Dad went to great trouble to obtain and install a Mallory dual-point ignition system in his 56 Bel Aire six. Don't aks me why. He did things like that every now and again. Like putting 8.10x15 tires on his 61 Biscayne. (I almost flipped it making a cloverleaf.) There is where I learned about the ramifications of 'footprint' and weight. Much worse, I was so busy congratulating myself on steering on two wheels long enough to have time to wonder what to do next and how the **** to explain it that it never crossed my mind I might not live to have to. I got home and forgot all else. Any kid who's won a bad one knows the feeling. Later, Dad sort of materialized between me and the TV. "Les." "Huh?" "Why do the two left tires have yellow sidewalls, now?" Calm as he could be, except for his eyes. Saith I, "I dunno? Yellow?" Truly mystified. "Come outside." Oh no! He took my older brother outside once and flattened him. One punch. So out we went and he took me to the car and pointed. Sure enough, that cheap yellow paint the city puts on curbs had pretty much eradicated the whitewall part. I looked at it for a minute. (There is a God.) I said, "Well, I _thought _I got kinda close to that curb at school. Whaddya know? Want me to clean 'em up?" "Yeah." He went away, shaking his head.

He's been gone since '63, and I think about him nearly every day.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 05/23/2009 2:23 PM
Ah, Edwin Hawkins it is. 
http://www.last.fm/music/Edwin+Hawkins+Singers/_/Oh+Happy+Day 
Turn your volume up.



Thanks!


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## Guest (May 23, 2009)

Ross sisters? - i'm positive, that i have never seen them. i would never have forgotten these... err ... faces... 

the river kwai march was the first tune i could whistle. 

thinking about movies - anybody remembers one of the first broadscreen movies? three projectors running simultaneously. a three hours movie about the winning of the west. 
as it was allways the cheapest frontseats for us, when the herd of buffalo ran over the camera, i made myself so small, that i fell from the seat. 

btw. anybody remembers "Fuzzy"? 

Paraguay, about 25 years ago... 
tv broadcast only near the capital. 
i had the first tv set in our part of the state. i ran it with rented videos, i brought from the capital. 
clerly i invited the neighbours to watch a movie every week. (plus lots of kids spying through the windows) 
the movie ran. some western. we saw Burt Lancaster's teeth and a cigar above an old bathing tube. 
suddenly a neighbour shouts: "hey! something is wrong! this guy was killed last week!"


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Now you folks are really giving away your age.







Later RJD


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 05/23/2009 4:53 PM
Now you folks are really giving away your age.







Later RJD








Yeah, I guess. But that was one of the most plain 'ol, flat-out enjoyable threads I've been part of since I got on this board. I'm glad we've got a space to just plain bs in, know what I mean?









Les


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 05/23/2009 4:53 PM
Now you folks are really giving away your age.







Later RJD


I gave my age away when I realized my Daughter was older than I am and I haven't accepted any offers to give it back to me.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Semper LOL....

I am currently processing video of my Hudson going through a #6 and yes..... it is not errant... I will post on my construction thread ... 

When you view,,, please be jealous. 


gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Statler Bros WHO? You frigin guys got to start talkin english........ HE HE HE


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 05/23/2009 6:24 PM
Semper LOL....
 
I am currently processing video of my Hudson going through a #6 and yes..... it is not errant... I will post on my construction thread ... 
 
When you view,,, please be jealous. 

 
gg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Looks like onea dem troll pictures offa LSC.......


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Nick, how much must I pay you to get this troll..?????????????????????


This was the best.... I sweat my ass and then this comes at me when my joints are falling apart... 

My turn is coming.... and yes "Inspecteur Clouseau" will strike when ze readyyy....


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I will let you off cheap Gavin... A NYC hudson will doooooooooooooo USA version of course he he he


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 05/23/2009 8:13 PM


I will let you off cheap Gavin... A NYC hudson will doooooooooooooo USA version of course he he he










I'm broke and I got "The Godfather" Blueray version for my birthday this week... 




Between that and my fearless dog.... where to you live Nick and do you like horses????








haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Happy birhtday







mine as well, but im younger and better lookin haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa just kiddin


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey, no fair! 

Lewis said (on his forum yet) that I am the troll! 

youse guyz are stealing my title! 

ha ha ha ha! 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/23/2009 8:48 PM
Hey, no fair! 

Lewis said (on his forum yet) that I am the troll! 

youse guyz are stealing my title! 

ha ha ha ha! 

Greg






Greg you are the King of trolls, i bow to you sir and humbly hope you will spare me.......... and forgive me HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

You guys are all "ole-farts" huh? I'm 26. I remember grampa telling about actually turning a knob on the TV by hand to get 3 channels.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 05/23/2009 8:52 PM
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/23/2009 8:48 PM
Hey, no fair! 

Lewis said (on his forum yet) that I am the troll! 

youse guyz are stealing my title! 

ha ha ha ha! 

Greg






Greg you are the King of trolls, i bow to you sir and humbly hope you will spare me.......... and forgive me HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



















Nick, give Greg his fair dues.... he is the troll. 

We however support of this troll by being sub-trolles... (cripes, I really don't know...and I do know that it is good... the guy offer some great stuff .... ). 


Now, might I suggest a bit of tea with a bit of errant loco mocho.... ? 


gg


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 05/23/2009 8:56 PM
You guys are all "ole-farts" huh? I'm 26. I remember grampa telling about actually turning a knob on the TV by hand to get 3 channels.


Hehe! I did that on the radio!! My first world wide web experience was with an old Indian blanket and a bonfire.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By xo18thfa on 05/23/2009 8:56 PM
You guys are all "ole-farts" huh? I'm 26. I remember grampa telling about actually turning a knob on the TV by hand to get 3 channels.


Hello.... less than half my age here? 


OHHHH.. I wish I could take my wisdom and take it back to the day when I was indeed 26... Enjoy your life's experiences as they come to you. 


gg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 05/23/2009 8:42 PM
Happy birhtday







mine as well, but im younger and better lookin haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa just kiddin 





I am but a sweet 26... 

Now, if you believe that.. then... 




I have some great real estate in Northern Canada and as well in Floridal that you need to look at... 

Both enjoy temperate climates... purfect for older people.. 


gg


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

theme song version 2?


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## Guest (May 24, 2009)

I remember grampa telling about actually turning a knob on the TV by hand to get 3 channels.
yeah, that is true what your gramps told. but it improved soon. 
a couple of years later, everybody tripped on the cable of the first remote controls... (two turning knobs)


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

We used to go to the neighbors' to watch The Wizard of Oz in color


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

our first color tv was by sticking a film over the screen that was blue accross the top, yellow in the middle and green across the bottom. Bonanza was one of the few shows that it looked half right 

Randy


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I remember the first tv we had with a remote control. I had a toy tank with rubber treads and when I ran that tank accross the carpet, the tv went nuts. To say the least, the tank was banned from the living room. 

Randy


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 05/24/2009 11:44 AM
our first color tv was by sticking a film over the screen that was blue accross the top, yellow in the middle and green across the bottom. Bonanza was one of the few shows that it looked half right 

Randy


You mean you don't think that Douglas Edwards had blue hair and a green chin and neck?









We had one of those plastic films too. Mom and Dad would turn on the TV and then go out and sit on the front porch just to watch cars come up the street by the house... some cars would go around the block many times... to see the "Color TV". Sometimes after several trips around the block the driver would have to stop and ask if it really was a color TV.

One evening when "I Love Lucy" was on, we were all in the living room to watch it, (along with some friends of my older brother and sister, so we had a really full living room with several of us kids havng to lay on the floor). Lucy was in one of her typical predicaments so we were all in a laughing mood anyway, when someone came to the screen door, knocked and then said, "If that ain't color TV, I'll eat my hat!" Poor fellow, it took Dad a minute or two to recover his composure well enough to explain about the sheet of color plastic on the screen.


Then we got a real Color TV just after Christmas one year! We invited a bunch of relatives and friends over to watch the Rose Bowl Parade "In Living Color". The TV went wonky right after turning it on that morning... the Red portion of the picture moved over about 1/2 inch to the left from everything else. Had to turn the color control way down (color off) in order to make heads or tails of the picture. Mom was so embarrassed and dissappointed.

That TV had 26 service calls in the first year... and I am the one that figured out what one of the problems was!!!!

I watched the repairmen as they worked on it and they always had to replace one particular tube... it would always crack the glass around the base which would let air in and that would burn out the filament. I decided to look up the tube in my RCA Tube replacement/service book and it had a note that it was specifically designed to be mounted vertically, but in this TV chassis it was mounted horizontally.

I tried to tell the next service man and he called me a "Dumb kid!" so I told the next service man and he asked how I knew it. I showed him the manual and he got his copy of the book and dog-eared that page. The next service call they had a right angle adapter to mount the tube vertically and was the last time they replaced that tube on our TV! 

Unfortunately it was not the last service call for the thing. I think it had something like 35 service calls in the first 3 years. But once they got all the engineering errors out of the design it lasted quite a few trouble free years after that.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GG on 05/23/2009 10:11 PM
Posted By xo18thfa on 05/23/2009 8:56 PM
You guys are all "ole-farts" huh? I'm 26. I remember grampa telling about actually turning a knob on the TV by hand to get 3 channels.


Hello.... less than half my age here? 


OHHHH.. I wish I could take my wisdom and take it back to the day when I was indeed 26... Enjoy your life's experiences as they come to you. 


gg 





I am just pulling your chain. I'm an "ole fart" too. Retired many moons ago. I don't want to be 26 ever again.


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## Guest (May 24, 2009)

at 26 i took hold of my savings from ten years working, left germany, settled down in the backwoods of paraguay and started to carve a ranch out of the bush. - i hate the expression: "light to light" 

if i could be 26 again... 

.... i would stay in civilisation!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Richard Smith on 05/23/2009 10:10 PM
Posted By xo18thfa on 05/23/2009 8:56 PM
You guys are all "ole-farts" huh? I'm 26. I remember grampa telling about actually turning a knob on the TV by hand to get 3 channels.


Hehe! I did that on the radio!! My first world wide web experience was with an old Indian blanket and a bonfire. 








Rich,

Your post made me do a double-take. Here's what I _thought_ you posted: "Hehe! I did that on the radio!! My first world wide web experience was with an old Indian(,) blanket and a bonfire." 

I thought, _wth?_ 









Les


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 05/24/2009 9:01 PM
Posted By Richard Smith on 05/23/2009 10:10 PM
Posted By xo18thfa on 05/23/2009 8:56 PM
You guys are all "ole-farts" huh? I'm 26. I remember grampa telling about actually turning a knob on the TV by hand to get 3 channels.


Hehe! I did that on the radio!! My first world wide web experience was with an old Indian blanket and a bonfire. 








Rich,

Your post made me do a double-take. Here's what I _thought_ you posted: "Hehe! I did that on the radio!! My first world wide web experience was with an old Indian(,) blanket and a bonfire." 

I thought, _wth?_ 










Les,

You just might have it right. After all it WAS a long time ago. hehehe! 

Les


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

Comments made in the year 1955!

'I'll tell you one thing, if things keep going the way they are, it's going to be impossible to buy a week's groceries for $10.00.

'Have you seen the new cars coming out next year? It won't be long before $1, 000.00 will only buy a used one...

'If cigarettes keep going up in price, I'm going to quit. 20 cents a pack is ridiculous.

'Did you hear the post office is thinking about charging 7 cents just to mail a letter

'If they raise the minimum wage to $1.00, nobody will be able to hire outside help at the store.

'When I first started driving, who would have thought gas would someday cost 25 cents a gallon. Guess we'd be better off leaving the car in the garage.

'I'm afraid to send my kids to the movies any more Ever since they let Clark Gable get by with saying DAMN in GONE WITH THE WIND, it seems every new movie has either **** or DAMN in it.

'I read the other day where some scientist thinks it's possible to put a man on the moon by the end of the century. They even have some fellows they call astronauts preparing for it down inTexas .

'Did you see where some baseball player just signed a contract for $50,000 a year just to play ball? It wouldn't surprise me if someday they'll be making more than the President.

'I never thought I'd see the day all our kitchen appliances would be electric. They are even making electric typewriters now.

'It's too bad things are so tough nowadays. I see where a few married women are having to work to make ends meet.

'It won't be long before young couples are going to have to hire someone to watch their kids so they can both work.

'I'm afraid the Volkswagen car is going to open the door to a whole lot of foreign business.

'Thank goodness I won't live to see the day when the Government takes half our income in taxes. I sometimes wonder if we are electing the best people to government.

'The drive-in restaurant is convenient in nice weather, but I seriously doubt they will ever catch on.

'There is no sense going on short trips anymore for a weekend, it costs nearly $2.00 a night to stay in a hotel.

'No one can afford to be sick anymore, at $15.00 a day in the hospital, it's too rich for my blood.'

'If they think I'll pay 30 cents for a hair cut, forget it.'


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

When my brother came home for a visit in his first semester of College (Fall 1951), Mom (being a Mom!) asked about his eating habits. He replied that they often ordered out for Pizza and it would be delivered directly to the dorm so they could continue to study... cost was less than a dollar and 3 or 4 guys could pitch in for the cost and everybody ate their fill and have some left over for breakfast before class the next day.

"WHAT is 'PIZZA'?" Mom and Dad asked. "Is it any good?" (Of course, Mom's intent in that question is whether it was actually nutricious.)

He said they often ordered it with lots of good toppings, like ham, pepperoni, olives, "Anchovies", anything you wanted.... and always with lots of cheese. He said it was kind of like a ham and cheese sandwich on just one slice of a cracker-thin slice of hard bread, with a tomato sauce instead of mustard and ketchup.

"WHAT is 'ANCHOVIES'?" Mom had never heard of that. Dad had, and explained that it is a small fish like a sardine.

My brother went out and found a pizza place in town and brought home dinner that night.

Neither Mom nor Dad like it at all. Dad thought that if it helped the students stay in the dorm to study it was probably okay, but said he thought it would never catch on outside of a college town.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 05/24/2009 12:41 PM

Unfortunately it was not the last service call for the thing. I think it had something like 35 service calls in the first 3 years. But once they got all the engineering errors out of the design it lasted quite a few trouble free years after that.





Bachmann made TVs???? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif



running for cover..incoming!!! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Aw, Vic, ya beat me to it!  

Later, 

K


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 05/28/2009 8:24 AM
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 05/24/2009 12:41 PM

Unfortunately it was not the last service call for the thing. I think it had something like 35 service calls in the first 3 years. But once they got all the engineering errors out of the design it lasted quite a few trouble free years after that.





Bachmann made TVs???? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />



running for cover..incoming!!! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />



Hey... it was an American designed, American assembled from American parts TV (from RCA).







(Long before RCA moved the "assembly factory" to Mexico and started buying parts from Japan and Germany.)


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

(Long before RCA moved the "assembly factory" to Mexico and started buying parts from Japan and Germany.)
Now you're REALLY dating yourself Semper! hehehe


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like a bunch of old folks sitting at McDonalds drinking there senior coffee and telling tales.







Maybe we should change the name of MLS to Many large seniors







. Later RJD


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 05/28/2009 11:24 AM
(Long before RCA moved the "assembly factory" to Mexico and started buying parts from Japan and Germany.)
Now you're REALLY dating yourself Semper! hehehe " src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />


Hmmmm.... dating myself... Well, at least I only have to pay for one meal and I know I won't get a cold shoulder treatment the rest of the night if I smile at the waitress or leave too big of a tip.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

That's not what I meant, but whatever floats your boat.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 05/28/2009 12:11 PM
That's not what I meant, but whatever floats your boat. " src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />

So now this is a boat forum?
MLB doesn't stand for Major League Baseball.......My Large Boats?

Geez, Dwight, now you've hijacked the thread enough we've got version 2 out there.....


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*fLOATS YOUR BOAT, HE HE HE. i Think by dating, Dwight ment your AGE.....*


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By aceinspp on 05/28/2009 12:01 PM
Sounds like a bunch of old folks sitting at McDonalds drinking there senior coffee and telling tales.







Maybe we should change the name of MLS to Many large seniors







. Later RJD





With both Nick and Semper chewing their cuds here, this McDonalds is open 24 hours










gg


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 05/28/2009 12:01 PM
Sounds like a bunch of old folks sitting at McDonalds drinking there senior coffee and telling tales.







Maybe we should change the name of MLS to Many large seniors







. Later RJD








That's a great idea! They could open up a new forum and call it "Geezer Gauge".









Les


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 05/28/2009 3:47 PM
Posted By aceinspp on 05/28/2009 12:01 PM
Sounds like a bunch of old folks sitting at McDonalds drinking there senior coffee and telling tales.







Maybe we should change the name of MLS to Many large seniors







. Later RJD








That's a great idea! They could open up a new forum and call it "Geezer Gauge".









Les



Maybe that is what the "G" stands for in "G-Gauge"...


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 05/28/2009 4:44 PM
Posted By Les on 05/28/2009 3:47 PM
Posted By aceinspp on 05/28/2009 12:01 PM
Sounds like a bunch of old folks sitting at McDonalds drinking there senior coffee and telling tales.







Maybe we should change the name of MLS to Many large seniors







. Later RJD








That's a great idea! They could open up a new forum and call it "Geezer Gauge".









Les



Maybe that is what the "G" stands for in "G-Gauge"... 








ummmm, Semper ! I am beginning to smell something here..... why the sudden interest in the initials?


gg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

You _DO _realize that any beginners that might accidentally stumble into this thread will quickly reel in stunned disbelief and probably think we're all stark raving certifiable lunatics!! By the way, I grew up with my very own TV in my bedroom! Yep, it was a 7" black and white GE that only picked up one channel well (but could be coaxed into two more with strategically placed aluminum foil.) It was a real treat when we got our first color TV (13" screen too!) Ah, those were the days.....


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 05/28/2009 6:04 PM
You _DO _realize that any beginners that might accidentally stumble into this thread will quickly reel in stunned disbelief and probably think we're all stark raving certifiable lunatics!! By the way, I grew up with my very own TV in my bedroom! Yep, it was a 7" black and white GE that only picked up one channel well (but could be coaxed into two more with strategically placed aluminum foil.) It was a real treat when we got our first color TV (13" screen too!) Ah, those were the days.....



Lunatics? Well, I always believe in being truthful.

You got your OWN TV? WOW! We got an hour per evening in the early years... pick your show, you get only one hour one or two half-hour ones. And only 6-oz of Pepsi per day, too. Have it at the noon meal and there will be none with the TV show tonight!

GG -- I don't know about the MLS, etc. initials, but "G" has always been a problem for me... especially when I ask someone what "SCALE" something is and they tell me "G-Scale"... all that tells me is that the "G" stands for "Goofy".... but I guess "Geezer" is just as useful.


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