# Washouts, gears, and grades



## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

Where I live, we just had a storm last night. While I was overlooking the line, I came to a sport where washout seem to be common. I use the same method of track laying as East Broad Top, due to the fact we used his "Building the Tuscarura" Articles when my family and I built the layout. Beside electrical conduit, all that supports the track is ballast. Should I replace the ballast with Cribbing?


Also, when my mom and I had to relay some of the track, she went and eliminated the grade, saying it would help eliminate the wear on the gears and would be easier on the locomotives. Is this true?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Use cribbing to hold the ballast and prevent the washout from removing the support. Not an either/or, as a both. 

Yes flat terrain will save wear on gears, specially if you like long trains as the drag is where the wear is. 
Nice to have a knowlegable Mom! 

John


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

Problem is that since that area was leveled out, every time it rains, it floods. The longest trains I run are just four cars long. They are always LGB and Bachmann cars, as that's all I have.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Usually if I find a spot that has washed out I build a wall to hold the ballast in place. It could be rock or wood, plus it adds a little detail to the layout. Cribbing is another option and looks good as well. I find the easiest solution is a small wooden wall. 

This is what I did used rock and a wooden wall. 
http://i47.tinypic.com/msd5iw.jpg


Im sure your engines will be happy you Eliminated the grade. Plus you can run live steam easier.


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

Well, I'll try building a wall then. I'd hate to have to rip up the roadbed again.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You should think about where the water is flowing from and to. You may need to dig some trenches or add a wall to channel the water away from the layout. Could you put a bridge where the washout happens?

If you could post some pictures it might help us come up with a workable solution.

When I built my first layout in Denver I didn't have to worry about drainage. Unfortunately, when I built here in Virginia, I should have. During a heavy rain I get a lot of debris washed over the track. A little foresight would have saved me some cleanups. Fortunately, I haven't had any washouts.


Chuck N


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Flatlanders!







I shoulda known!









Only in railyards do you usually find the track down at flood level. Along mainlines the track is on a raised bed of ballast. Some types of ballast hold together better than others. Round or semi polished river rock will settle out!







Why sometimes it seemed to walk away...train vibrations.
Railroads spend big money to clean the ballast and try to prevent dirt from washing in. Along with holding the track it drain water away from the ties.
I've not had any luck tamping soil to maintain a fill profile, say 60 degrees steep. So I use rocks and cribbing to help hold the coarse rock ballast in place. 
Crusher fines are the little bits left over when rock is broken for other uses. Generally it's screened to various sizes. The names seem to vary from quarry to quarry and region to region. 
Some folks mix a cement into their ballast spread it out and spray with water to set the cement. I think that's ok, unless it cracks and then might look funny.

Instead of raising your tracks, I'll echo the suggestion above; cut out drainage ditches. A nice detailing touch are wooden foot bridges over the ditches where needed. I'm thinking 4" wide and a couple inches deep....

Nothing wrong with redoing sections, we all learn as we go.

John


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

That's the problem. The water's flowing through the tunnel. How can I tell? Simple, the mulch shown in the picture. We plan on removing the much completely from the garden at some point. That's also part of the other problem, Flooding. The water reaches over the top of the rails and as it recedes, it drags mulch onto the right-of-way. 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/1/10/2719977//100_5480.JPG


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Does the water enter at the other end or through the tunnel sides? 
At the other end and a culvert could divert the flow. 
If it's through the walls you have a bigger headache and your best bet may be beside the track drainage ditches in the tunnel. A low retaining wall will keep the ballast under the track, one to two inches from the ties. 

That mulch will never play nice; critters, wind and water move it. 

John


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

The water enters via the other tunnel entrance. The culprit is the stone we laid down for a cut that goes downhill, so we could restructure one side of the hill. The mulch starts at the cuts beginning and goes to the tunnel entrance. I'll try your culvert idea.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The first year I had my train in Virginia I covered the non-track area with mulch. A very bad idea. The rain just moved it all over the track. As the raven said,"never more". In my layout I now have moss that took over as a very suitable ground cover. Once the mulch washed off, I let the moss come in. My train is mostly in shade. A few parts are so shady that even moss isn't growing.

A few more pictures would help. What does it look like at the other end of the tunnel. Back off and take a few pictures that show the overall layout. 


Chuck N


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

'Kay. Warning: I haven't used it in a while, and I have some serious weeding to do the next time it rains. 

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/1/10/2719977//100_5481.JPG 
http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/1/10/2719977//100_5482.JPG 
http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/1/10/2719977//100_5483.JPG 
http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/1/10/2719977//100_5484.JPG 
http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/1/10/2719977//100_5485.JPG


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I think that if you remove the mulch most your problem will disappear. You have a slight mound in the middle the mulch will wash off that in all directions.

Chuck N 


Low ground covers will work better than mulch. Moss probably won't work because your train gets a lot of sum. There are varities of thyme that work well in this type of a railroad. Get several recent copies of Garden Railways Magazine and look at the gardening articles. Plants are much better than mulch.


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

Thanks.^^


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The first 3 rules of MoW (Maintenance of Way) are: Drainage, Drainage, and Drainage. That goes for LS as well as full sized. 'Scale' simply won't work here.... remember 1" of real rain = almost 2 FEET of scale rain.... And all that water has to go SOMEWHERE - a dry cistern, a dry wash, a holding pond/sump, out into the rest of your garden/yard, down a drain... just about anywhere but pooling under (or running over) your rails. The EASIEST way to ensure proper drainage is to have the track elevated higher than anything else near it in the first place. That isn't always possible. "French drains" or just ditches on both sides of the track are the next easiest. 3". 4" or so pvc or abs pipe makes dandy culverts for crossing under the RoW, and you can often get short pieces very inexpensively.... or sometimes free if there's a house being built near you. 

Besides, when the track is higher than the mulch the mulch tends to stay where it belongs better too.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Move the broken rock to the right of the tunnel, back so it's not a funnel. 
Get rid of the mulch or spread a net over it to hold it in place. 
Is your pvc support staked to the ground? If not you could slip pavers under it every 2 feet or so and add ballast between them to raise your track above the water and debris. Pavers aren't as thick as bricks and are wider. 

John


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

Okay.


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