# dismantling my SR&RL



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

the other day i started taking the firemans side of my engine apart. i started withe the cylinder. the slide valve was if pretty good condition, but it was slightly worn down. also, the gasget needs replaced. i took it and soaked it in oil, and i reinstalled it. before putting it back together, i filled the cylinder with steam oil. then valve gear went back togeter. i tested her on air, and it didnt leak any more. hower, it did not improve the operation much. then the rear axle was partially dismantle, but the counter weights wouldnt come off, even with the screw that holds them on removed. i found that
the one driver is bent, causing it to wear against the frame. i move it back on the axle, an this helped a little.

next up is to replace the eccentric rods and crosshead arms(drop links), the main rods, and bearings.

the radius arm, return crank, expansion link,union link, and combination lever are not badly worn, and do not need replaced.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Brave to you for having the courage to tear into her on your own. Just don't force anything. When you start putting new rods on, put the side rods on, then roll the engine on a slick surface watching for any binds. Then put the piston(main rods) on and recheck, then the eccentric rod and rest of valve motion and recheck. If there is any binding at any step, stop and figure out where the bind is. Any binds will result in uneven running. The wheels should turn smoothly at each step other than some resistance from the cylinders(open throttle and put valve gear into foward or reverse motion to relieve back pressure. It just how you work when assembling one of the kits from Roundhouse. If you get stuck, post or make a phone call. Good luck and great job. Mike


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i should also add, i have no idea what i am doing.

my logic: replace worn out parts and dump oil on everything. i'm not sure how effective that is, but i had just used all my money to buy someones collection of g scale (he passed away, and his family is selling stuff) so i cant afford a rebuild by someone else. besides, i think it will be a good learning experience.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Do not over oil Nate, to much is as bad as to little. To much attracts dirt and grit, to little is obvious what that does. What all did you get in the collection? Thats what I do when the shop in Zionsville gets in a new collection, I raid it for what I want and he is nice enough to stash stuff for me till I can afford it. Mike


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

so far, i have bought an Aristo Aclo FA-1 - FB-1 set (Lehigh Valley) it is NIB. he never even opened the shiiping boxes. I paid $145 for the set. i also paid $145 for his collection of cars(which were all NIB, and most are very rare cars. i got 8 cars, 6 freight, for $15 a piece, and 2 passenger cars, for $20 a piece.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Good deal Nate, glad you could give his stuff a good home. Those old Alco FA1's are nice, I had one that was converted to battery power at one time. I am paring back my collection to just my 2 live steamers, my two engines that Pull my Autism Express(LGB 2-4-0 and Kalamazoo 4-4-0), a Euro 0-6-2 that needs a new battery installed and my Bachmann Emily GNR Stirling Single that will get the face removed and made into a proper UK engine eventualy. Going to sell my C&S mogul with onboard battery and already traded off a few other pieces. If anybody is interested in the mogul, PM me. I can remove the battery and put the track pickups back in, however the LGB circuit boards are gone, so will need boards for lights ect. Mike


----------



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure wish that you had waited to do the work on the SRRL ,Nate.
That is a daunting task for some one who is knowledgeable about repairing live steam engines.
ASs you know that engine is not an inexpensive toy.
I thought you had said it was operating okay. 
I guess you just got bored.
Hope you have it put back together enough that it will still run.


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Art,
dont worry, she is back together fine and running better than before, as the cylinder leak on the right side has been fixed, along with the issue of the wheel grinding against the frame. i do not plan on doing extensive work, other than replacing worn out parts 

at least i didnt lose any of the screws

Re: about issues with the engine- she has suddenly started developing leaks everywhere, and i'm not sure why. I think it is because of the temp. when i am running it the cold i get 3 times as many leaks than i do when it is warm.

i suspect "climate change" with the engine may be to blame for the problem. she went from a place where high temps can reach 120 deg, and i have run her in -5 degree temps. this can cause expansion or contraction in the parts.

i did an air test yesterday and the valve motion was slighty less jerky after my repairs.

next up: tear her down to every nut and bolt. LOL

i'll leave that to Jay..


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

artgibson said:


> ASs you know that engine is not an inexpensive toy.
> .


uh, art i'm hoping that is a typo


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I am not worried, worst case he has to send it to Jay to sort out. Have to learn somehow. I would suggest if anybody has thier chassis instructions from one of the RH kits to send Nate a copy of the valve timing set up. I think he might be able to download that on thier website as well. I think Nate has more of a grasp on how it works that many others I have met. If he takes it his time and doesn't try to force anything that wont fit right, he will be ok. Wish we had a seasoned live steamer really close by to him to assist and teach. Even when we are home at my wife's mothers near Erie, he is a long ways from there. I have faith in ya Nate, show everybody you can do it! Mike


----------



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> uh, art i'm hoping that is a typo




It was a typo. You know me Nate and my typing and spelling


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

mike, it might help that i have spent hours pouring over books and diagrams of steam locomotive valve gear.


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

artgibson said:


> It was a typo. You know me Nate and my typing and spelling


i know art, i was just havin' a little fun 
take care,
nate


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> Re: about issues with the engine- she has suddenly started developing leaks everywhere, and i'm not sure why.


Could it maybe be because you decided to tear into it after you have admitted that you did not no what you are doing? 

But, this is how lessons are learned so please do not take anything I say wrong.  

By the way, there are some good schematics of cylinder assemblies and such at the Roundhouse web site. You have to hunt around, but they are there.


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

the leaks started before i started working in her- thats why i started working on her.

OK so i took the left cylinder apart and i found the problem! the gasket- or what was left of. half of it was gone,( and the tattered other half was in terrible shape- ( parts of it were IN THE SLIDE VALVE, so that must have been the problem,so i made a new gasget and cleaned out the slide valve of all dirt.. SHE RUNS GREAT NOW! no, she doesnt run as good as she did when she rolled out the doors of roundhouse, but she turns her wheels MUCH more smoothly.

see, i know what im doin'


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate, ahhhh.............................................., to be 14 again. I think I am jealous !! You have something more then the person here who has the most engines. YOUTH !


----------



## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

You have to learn somehow. The best way is to do what your doing. That's how I learned although I still have a lot of learning to do still. I sure hope my son still loved trains when he hits your age. You don't see too many kids these days into trains. Keep up the good work and keep learning.


----------



## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

*Technical pages*

http://www.roundhouse-eng.com/ go to downloads valve adjustments/valve gear


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

For Gaskets;
The paper in a $1.00 bill is good, the paper in a $100.00 bill is a hundred times better!
John


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

John, i read somewhere about using british pound notes, but i dont have those. i cut mine outh of a thicker brown paper bag and soaked it in oil(i heard about using brown paper bags in an old thread). it is working well so far.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I have made gaskets from both doller bills and paper bags. The back of a note pad works on lawn mower engines when you need to make a new gasket for the carb or other external parts that mount to the engine block. Mike


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> a seasoned live steamer really close by to him


York PA is right in the middle of the east coast, a veritable hotbed of live steamers. Between NJ and MD, where there are dozens of guys with steam engines.
Nate can get all the advice he wants next weekend at Cabin Fever (or Diamondhead.) Cabin Fever is all of 40 miles from York.


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

OK i did first test on steam, and something odd happened. at first, the engine ran very smooth, but as the run went on it started getting choppy, and then the engine started binding. since it was fine when she was cold running on air, and fine when the cylinders were still cold, but while under steam. however, when the cylinders were warm, the binding occured.

do you guys know what this might be?

honestly, i find this whole working on my loco thing really fun! and it is a cood learning curve too.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> OK i did first test on steam, and something odd happened. at first, the engine ran very smooth, but as the run went on it started getting choppy, and then the engine started binding. since it was fine when she was cold running on air, and fine when the cylinders were still cold, but while under steam. however, when the cylinders were warm, the binding occured.
> 
> do you guys know what this might be?
> 
> honestly, i find this whole working on my loco thing really fun! and it is a cood learning curve too.


Hi Nate,

Probably too late to ask you this question now, but........did you check all your running gear clearances BEFORE you tore the engine down? Sounds to me like you have some things too tight and naturally when the engine heats up, things expanded and started to bind. Just a thought.....


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

she was fine while running cold, but when warm it occured. i think you are correct. maybe i can get some help at cabin fever.

we have a 2 hour delay due to ice on roads, so i'm back to work in the shop!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> she was fine while running cold, but when warm it occured. i think you are correct. maybe i can get some help at cabin fever.
> 
> we have a 2 hour delay due to ice on roads, so i'm back to work in the shop!


Nate,

I'm not real familiar with the construction of these small locomotives (I have a 1/8th scale Gene Allen ten wheeler....I just sold BTW), but did you remove the pistons and piston rods assembly from your engine? Check the tightness of the packing and packing gland on the REAR cylinder heads. Also the packing in the valve steam in the steam chest. Are these valves flat "D" valves or piston valves?


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

everything is thight, no leaks, and she has D-valves(slide valves)

I FOUND OUT THAT I WILL BE AT CABIN FEVER!

BTW my srrl will suucesfully pull a 30 foot long train.(when running properly) Mike moore, How long are your sidings???


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I am wonder if his packing nuts are turn just a hair to tight. Try steaming up again Nate, and once she starts to bind, try backing the nuts off a 16th of a turn, try one side, then run it, then try the other side. Try to watch the valve motion closely, sometimes a rod that is binding will twitch in a funny way when it binds up. or you might not be able to wiggle a rod at the binding point where normaly it has some play in it. Its gonna be trial and error till you find it or someone at Cabin Fever can sort the old girl out. Mike


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Mike Toney said:


> Its gonna be trial and error till you find it or someone at Cabin Fever can sort the old girl out. Mike


I will try loosening them, and trial and error of adjusting the timing till it..er.. she runs good.

anybody know why refer to our engines as "he" or "she" ?


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Toney said:


> I am wonder if his packing nuts are turn just a hair to tight. Try steaming up again Nate, and once she starts to bind, try backing the nuts off a 16th of a turn, try one side, then run it, then try the other side. Try to watch the valve motion closely, sometimes a rod that is binding will twitch in a funny way when it binds up. or you might not be able to wiggle a rod at the binding point where normaly it has some play in it. Its gonna be trial and error till you find it or someone at Cabin Fever can sort the old girl out. Mike


Mike,
That's exactly why I asked Nate the question. But maybe THIS old live steamer didn't make the question clear enough to him . He can still loosen those packing nuts quite a bit and it will run fine. But if the packing is "squeezing" those rods too tightly, this would cause the exact problem he is experiencing. When I first started building my Allen ten wheeler, Gene used to always comment to me to "keep things loose and add a little clearance to the moving parts. A "tight' ENGINE will NEVER run correctly". Because I was a tool and die maker (he knew I worked in close tolerances) I followed his advice closely and had a nice free wheeling locomotive when running on "air" the first time. BTW, setting up and timing Stephenson valve gear is probably the most difficult gear to work with. Why do you think the full size RR's went to Walscherts ?

As far as "she" or "he" as a nickname for our engines.......NO i never used the terms. When they don't run and frustration sets in, I have "other" words i used. And they are NOT appropriate for this forum or thirteen year olds either .


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Nate, leave the timing alone till you try backing off those packing nuts. Its heat related, not timing related. If it was timing, I would think there would be issues even when the engine is cold. Timing is timing, either its right or its not. But as the piston rod and cylinder assembly heats up as she runs, the clearances will get even tighter than when its cold, which WILL cause the binding you are seeing happen. Start with the packing nuts, then report back before you go messing with other stuff. Lets go one step at a time and less gung ho this time. I have built one of the RH kits, an Aster Pannier Tank and 2 Regner kits, so I am familar with setting up timing from the first 2 kits I built. Gary, when I was going thru school to work on semi tractors, the rule of thumb for setting up wheel wearings is "A little loose is better then a little tight" Cause when the bearing heats up, if its "a litte tight", it will get a lot more tight and overheat/bind up. Mike


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

are you guys some Jedi mind readers or what? i loosed the packing nuts, and she ran better than i have ever seen her run before!


...packing my bags for cabin fever....


.. and may the force be with you!



nate


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

We have just "Been there and done that" at our age. You will get there Nate. Its so refreshing to see a young man of your age so interested in trains. I hope they keep your interest as you become an adult. We all know how cars/trucks and girls will become more in your life in the coming years. Its ok to put them away for a little while while you get your adult life started if you need to. They will be there when your ready again. I however never put mine away thru my teens and 20's. But them I am a bit different being on the autism spectrum. Atleast my wife knows where my money goes, its not at the bar(I dont drink) or out chasing other women. The walls of trains prove that point! LOL. Have a blast at Cabin Fever. Mike


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

mike, i know what you mean by a "wall of trains"

mom could kill me for it, as i have my g scale every where. there are cars on the kitchen table, in my room, on the computer desk, piled of the workbench,on the garage floor, and the i have shelves piled full of locomotives-

and lets not get started on my o gauge stuff. i have about 300 cars, 20 engines, and about 600 feet of track (we currently have 10 tracks, and 3 levels)

we are going to put more shelves up in my room soon.

Mike, i thought you had Aspergers, not autism??


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Asperger's is part of the autism spectrum. Its very similar to high functioning autism. The biggest differance is a classic autie has speech delay as a young child, an Aspie(me) does not. If your curious, there is plenty on the net about what its like to be Aspie. Think of the spectrum as a food buffet. Each person is different, with a little of that and a little of this. Same for Asperger's Syndrome, it falls on the higher functioning side of the spectrum. I can drive and do most things to take care of myself, but I am horrible at keeping the finances straight. I have a trustee that helps manage the money right now since my wife is out of commision for awhile. Like someone with classic autism, I have meltdowns when overwhelmed or pushed to far. Or I might shutdown mentaly, which looks like the Data from Star Trek when someone flips his switch off. I am awake but unable to speak or function at all. I wear a wrist ID band as this can and does happen without enough warning for me to get someone safe to recover. On a train related note, I have been steaming the Merlin Mayflower on my indoor overhead line. She has a bit of a lope to her motion, awaiting valve adjusment measurments from Tag Gorton, she is different than your engine to adjust(piston valves). But she pulled 6 LGB 2 axle passenger coaches, of which 2 have very heavy solid plated brass wheel sets, and on the second run I added my 4 axle LGB passenger coach and she still handled the train around my tight R1 curves! Impressive, even with the valve timing off a touch. Mike


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Mike, how is your wife doing? is she getting better?


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Slowly getting better, going to be a long road to recovery. Speaking of shutdowns, I had one yesterday at the hospital. I was standing there holding her hand, it was just after 3pm. Next thing I know its almost 4pm and I am still standing there. I know the nursing staff would have come in around 3:30 for her breathing treatment ect. Dont remember any of it. When the nurse came in a little bit after 4pm, she say "your back", and I started to say was I shutdown. And she told me I was shutdown and asked if I was ok and that she understood that I was horribly overloaded and overwhelmed with all this. Yes, I told them that I am on the spectrum, just incase. When I am overwhelmed I will forget to eat and stuff like that. So the social worker checks on me each time she sees me to see if I am eating and if I need anything. Mike


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> are you guys some Jedi mind readers or what? i loosed the packing nuts, and she ran better than i have ever seen her run before!
> 
> 
> ...packing my bags for cabin fever....
> ...




Nate,

No Jedi mind reader here............just many years running live steam and learning about steam. I was exposed to steam drop hammers in my grandfather's drop forging plant here in Los Angeles during the Second World War (very ancient history for you) I was a young child at that time, but the love of "everything steam" is in my DNA. Steam locomotives were shuttling freight cars around my grandpa's shop during those years.....just up the street from Los Angeles' Union Station. I bet even you know about THAT station . By the time you have a few more years of steaming under your belt, you'll be the expert AND the "Jedi mind reader" .

All seriousness aside, we're happy it worked for you. BTW, say hello to Jeff Dute, owner of Loco Parts, in North Carolina. Tell him I said hello and say you know me. Maybe he can talk you into getting in to the really large scale steam......1/8th scale. He's a great guy. I just emailed him tonight about parts I need to get from him.


----------



## The Tinker (Sep 11, 2014)

Check the timing on your engine, which if wrong will make it have no power. I found a couple good vidieos on utube shows you how to do it








Both very good and easy to follow


----------

