# LGB Demise?



## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.focus.de/finanzen/news/m...rklin-steht-vor-der-insolvenz_aid_366930.html

Does this mean LGB is "belly up" again.

Maybe those who are fluent in German can interpret accurately.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

poor translation via Google 


Already a few years ago stood before the Märklin Off. Then saved the British financial investor Kingsbridge Capital, the company. Now once again the threat of bankruptcy. With 50 million euros should the company alone at Landesbank Baden-Wuerttemberg (LBBW) are in the Cretaceous, reported the "Wirtschaftswoche" on Monday, referring to the business community. The loans were at 31 January expired and not been renewed. The bankers see the report no longer made to restructure the company. 
ON 
Company: 
Fallen successful brands 
Last year, the 150 year old tradition of the company enterprise circles that 20 million euro loss have made. Also Kreissparkasse Goeppingen have a credit line is not extended. LBBW wanted the report did not comment. Märklin and Kreissparkasse Goeppingen for an opinion were not achievable. 


Märklin heard since 2006 Kingsbridge Capital. Given the poor financial figures of the past year there have already been frequently rumored sale.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's something from another forum--don't know if it's a translation

_Maerklin faces bankruptcy (report from the German Online edition of FORBES Financial)

The train model manufacturer with a long tradition, Maerklin, faces again insolvency. The company is supposed to have more than 50 Million Euro ($65 million) debt.

A few years back, Maerklin already once faced the end. Then the company was saved by the Britisch Investor Kingsbridge Capital. Now insolvency is threatening again. The company is supposed to be just with Landesbank Baden Wuertenberg (LBBW) in debt for $50 Million, which was reported by the “Wirtschaftswoche” (Economy weekly – newspaper) on Monday based on Information from inside the company (Maerklin). The credit lines terminated on January 31st. and have not been renewed. The banks don’t see any possibility to further restructure the company.

Last year alone Maerklin – a 150 year old traditional company – is supposed to have lost 20 Million Euro. In addition the Kreispaarkasse Goeppingen (bank) didn’t extend the credit line. LBBW refused to comment on the story and neither Maerklin nor the Kreisspaarkasse could be reached for comments.

_ _Maerklin belongs since 2006 to Kingsbridge Capital. Last year there were already sales (takeover) rumors due to the bad business numbers._









Bad news any way you look at it


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Well here we go again!











WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I received an e-mail this a.m. from Axel Tillman (Train-Li) with an attached article about this. Third times a charm??


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Joy. _Now _watch all of the LGB stuff on ebay go through the roof.....


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

"Joy. _Now _watch all of the LGB stuff on ebay go through the roof....."

*Steve, you mean eBay LGB prices aren't there ALREADY*




























(Of course, a lot of eBay prices on virtually *ANY trains *are "off-the-wall"







anyway!). 


*Remember the fuss on all the model RR bulletin boards about the idiot antique dealer *







*who tried to get $3000 *







* (FIRM!!! *







*) for an Athern HO plastic diesel worth about $18 ~ $20 *







*a year or so ago*























*Tom*


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## gtrainman (Jan 5, 2008)

_Now _watch all of the LGB stuff on ebay go through the roof.....

Or items like this,


L.G.B. Big Hauler Steam Engine










Estate Find! Up for auction is this G scale,L.G.B. Big Hauler steam engine! 

Item number: 200305725020

http://cgi.ebay.com/L-G-B-Big-Hauler-Steam-Engine_W0QQitemZ200305725020QQcmdZViewItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item200305725020&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's the whole problem! LGB was really made by Bachmann!! the LGB Big Hauler indeed! 

Greg


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, at least I was able to get my Club cars and a couple of Swiss cars that I wanted.

I wonder who the bidders will be this time? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

L.G.B. Big Hauler Steam Engine


Even more amazing is that he's selling the tender separately, with a 'buy it now' price of $25!


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

that's an RC Big Hauler, the whole set was $50 when it was new.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

This is really too bad. I was hopeful that new LGB product would be hitting the US shores. I think that LGB being out of the picture or on shaky ground has hurt this hobby in general. To much of the public, large scale = LGB. Their new product list showed a return to the basics for the US outline models, moguls and Christmas. Oh well, this is another product of a bad world economy.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with Mark--personally I don't have any LGB other than some starter set I inherited, but it would be good for everyone to have them back in the market.


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## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Funny I wasn't aware LGB was in business during the Cretaceous. 

For those who don't know geology the Cretaceous was at the Period at the end of the Mesozoic, emding some 65 million years ago. The dinosaurs roamed the Earth during the Cretaceous, dying out at the end. 

I wonder if they played with LGB trains?


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## Gary Lantz (Feb 20, 2008)

Last week two banks discontinued a line of credit to German model railroad manufacturer Märklin, causing the company to miss payroll on the eve of the Spielwarenmesse Toy Fair in Nuremberg. 

According to the German business magazine Handelsblatt, Märklin's deal with Landesbank Baden-Wuerttemberg and Kreissparkasse Goeppingen for a 50 million euro ($64.2 million) credit line expired Friday. Neither bank extended terms. 

Märklin, owned by Kingsbridge Capital, is celebrating its 150th anniversary this year. Kingsbridge is in negotiations to restore the line of credit.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete,

Huh?!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ditto to Pete: Huh? 

I must have missed some oblique reference to something very old... If I missed the joke, please let me know ;-) 

Greg


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## gtrainman (Jan 5, 2008)

Read this here for info,

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LGBFamily/message/6232


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I do not know what is making me weep more?





















The news about Marklin






































The news about LGB














The promises of the LGB club staff





















The never ending threads about the subject































The high Ebay prices of LGB





















Oh, wo is me





















I simply can't take any more of it. Someone put an end to it. 


They shoot horses, don't they?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

BANG!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's all sad news. 

The phrase "they shoot horses don't they" refers to the practice of killing a horse which is in unbearable pain. 

So, don't really know if it's appropriate to "shoot" Marklin or LGB... it must be painful for someone I guess! 

Regards, Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Oops, sorry, I thought it was Dan that wanted shot. Guess it is a good thing I am such a lousy shot. (I don't think I could hit the ground in a cave!)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hah! good one mr always steaming! 

We do need humor in this thread. 

Greg


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

The saga of Marklin/LGB is beginning to read like a soap opera. Perhaps they should draft a script of their financial woes and syndicate it for "daytime drama." It may allow them a way to recoup some of those losses.

Just thought of some titles: "Trains of Our Lives," "The Young and the Tender-less," and "The Guiding Semaphore."

Just daydreaming,
David Meashey


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Madman on 02/03/2009 7:46 PM







I do not know what is making me weep more?





















The news about Marklin





























The news about LGB The never ending threads about the subject I simply can't take any more of it. Someone put an end to it. 


*To add to your tears and misery I see someone else has started a new thread today on these subjects. *


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## Bucksco (Jan 4, 2008)

As far as I'm concerned LGB "Died" when it was sold to a group of investment bankers.


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## myline (Dec 6, 2008)

Editorial opinion from Little Paulie's caustic mind;
Bucko, good to hear from ya! I was right a couple of years ago when I said " yesterday MTH, today LGB, tomorrow Bachaman?"! I thought your comment was rather interesting but I thought LGB died when Wolfgang retired . It started it's downhill slide when the hess arrived and ended when they gutted the hart and soul of the company. Hey what's John going to do with that truck now?
Little Paulie, [email protected]


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

As far as I'm concerned LGB "Died" when it was sold to a group of investment bankers.



I think, LGB fell into coma, a few days after other makers with better and cheaper products appeared at the market. That´s more than 15 years ago. 

BTW, the news talk about Märklin´s difficulties. They do not mention LGB. It´s probably only a tiny little spot in the books of Märklin. 

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Now I'm even happier that I bought some used (but not outdoors) LGB 1600's and motors. These are the only parts on the railroad that would be hard to replace if LGB never rises again, which is a distinct possibility. 

After the fire sale to Marklin, I was wondering why it was taking so long to restart production. I didn't know then that Marklin was 1) owned already by some bankers and 2) didn't have the resources to restart production. Now, the delay is pretty obvious.


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## KVBarkley (Jan 9, 2009)

Maybe we should buy stock in Silvergate and see if they can buy some of the pieces.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

I would think it would be difficult for Marklin to get financing and carry on in the current environment. I would imagine some of the company will re-emerege. But I would be very surprised if it was the LGB part. I noticed that LGB was showing a new offering...which appeard to be a repaint of several Marklin cars I have owned for years. Maybe that will be what happens. No real difference between LGB and Marklin. 
Nobody knows, at this point. But there will be lots and lots of guessing. (which can be fun) 

I have boxes of LGB track, switches and signals. I will definitely sell them now....


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bucksco on 02/04/2009 7:04 AM
As far as I'm concerned LGB "Died" when it was sold to a group of investment bankers.


Is that the official position of Bachmann Industries?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Lewis Polk posted on the Aristo forum that he was headed for Nuremberg and the toy fair. Hey, maybe...

nah


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## Bucksco (Jan 4, 2008)

Tony, 
It's just my personal opinion - off the record as an ex LGBoA employee. Nothing to do with Bachmann.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 02/04/2009 2:33 PM
Lewis Polk posted on the Aristo forum that he was headed for Nuremberg and the toy fair. Hey, maybe...

nah 




Lewis has already had his production moved when JP Morgan-Chase sold Sanda Kan to Kader Holdings for $8.5 million. Would have been a bit of a pickle for him and several others if that sale had not happened. But notice the trend of Kader over time (Sanda Kan, Williams, Branchline, Liliput) for a potential direction......

Again, just listen to the 5:30 news, the large investment banks are bailing on the "investments" they made in industries that they had:

1. No idea what they were actually worth
2. No idea how they actually functioned
3. Bought to simply flip in 3-5 years


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB had been in trouble for a number of years before they went under. Oh, not so much as what the public could see but with their mentality of making "toys" vs scale models they were being left behind. Bachmann started far behind but eventually surpassed LGB as far as detailing and scale fidelity were concerned. The _one_ thing LGB had that Bachmann has yet to achieve is reliability! Personally, I would love to see one of the remaining manufacturers pick up the pieces much as Aristocraft and HLW did to Delton.


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, 

This is all good natured, but I would be glad to compare my 2, 2-10-2 Harz locomotive toys against any of your toys. New ownership gets the same molds that the previous company had. They don't magically become more to scale. 

Jack


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I would say that when LGB started making the, "Coca Cola" type products, is when the down hill slide really started. I also do not consider most LGB trains to be toys, rather sensibly built products to be used and enjoyed in the rugged outdoor environment they were meant for, with enough detail to satisfy the braod majority of model railroad enthusiasts.
By the way, why would Marklin buy LGB knowing their own financial troubles?


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2009)

By the way, why would Marklin buy LGB knowing their own financial troubles? 

maybe they tried to gamble. recession is like poker. either you raise or you fold.


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

Remember, the buyout started and ended mostly before the housing bubble burst and way before the banking meltdown. Most of the world thought they were not going to be affected by our housing problem in the beginning.
Steve


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, 

Most of the world was already in a pickle before out housing bubble burst, they just could not see it.. 

BulletBob


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

One thing LGB has that no other manufacturer of large scale has is an extremely loyal (bordeline rabid) fan base! Their "collectible values" are consistently higher than anything else and are still going up! It does seem puzzling how a company with such a following could have found itself insolvent...


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## myline (Dec 6, 2008)

" Remember when Toy Trains were just that ? "
I do. I got my first #1 gauge set in 1971 when I saw a few LGB set's at a someones house. I've been hooked since then
LGB will always be, #1
Little Paulie, [email protected]


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## Bob MacGregor (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Troops,
Some time back LGB sewed Aristocraft about possible track copyright infringements, 30 million dollars and 6 years later they lost. Although they made product after that time, they never recovered from it. 
Those of you that remember when USA Trains released their track, this is the same time frame that LGB lost the suit. Aristocraft shelled out some serious dollars to fend off the attack from LGB.
Marklins problems have been known for some time and maybe the German courts decided to put LGB into Marklins lap and let both of them end up in the outgoing trash. Still not sure where Walthers fits into this puzzle, maybe they will end up with the remains of both or nothing time will tell.


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## myline (Dec 6, 2008)

Any reports from the Nurnberg Toy Fair? Remember, it's not over till that lady sings. I find it hard to believe that this could happen this fast. Maybe each needs to be a separate company, maybe bring it to America and start over. There is lots of great product in LGB. 
Little Paulie, [email protected] ( a die hard LGB fan )


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

As I mentioned in the past, (two years ago when we were talking about the same subject), LGB reminds me of the Lionel story and the depression (the one in the '30s, not this one), Lionel went into receivership and in the end came out stronger, even purchasing American Flyer. Then the"Golden Age" of the late forties and throughout the fifties came, and they were doing rather well. That is until Old man Joshua Cowan decided to call it quits and handed the company over to his son, who involved other relatives. The new clan had more profit in mind, and started making all those cheap space related trains. Grant you, the model train hobby was competing with slot cars, etc. However, in both cases the founders of the company retired and left well oiled organizations to someone inexperienced in the fight of building up a company from scatch. Wolfgang did step into the established Lehmann company, but wasn't it he and his brother Eberhard who launched the train division?


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, the "established Lehmann company" in Brandenburg was taken over by the Communists. Wolfgang and Eberhardt helped their father start from scratch making tin toys in Nürnberg in the post war era. 

Jack


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## myline (Dec 6, 2008)

And the rest is history!


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## spodwo (Jan 2, 2008)

That is until Old man Joshua Cowan decided to call it quits and handed the company over to his son, who involved other relatives.



Actually - the old man went behind his own son's back and sold his stock shares to the infamous lawyer of "tail gunner Joe" - Roy Cohn. He totally back stabbed his own son. 

Regardless - even the mighty Lionel is re-trenching and trying to survive in current economic times. They are even partnering with MTH of all things! MTH has entered a license agreement with Lionel to continue to manufacture and market Tinplate replicas with the Lionel name on it. Wow...


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well the story as i heard it is that the kinsbridge investors bought maerlklin with the intention of 'amalgamating' and doing an ipo of General Trains-ie the idea was not to run the company but to sell it - 

which is exactly what i think the richter 'kids' did too 

of course there is validity to keeping up with the times-but the cross marketing ie brnaded items-was in line with expanding the collector aspect-not necessarily a sell out-just trying to appeal not only to train types but disney and coke and other 'collectables' as well as girls 

as Betty said 

tighten your seat belts its going to be a bumpy night 

the positive is that there is inherent value in lgb/ and possibly maerklins other product lines-even if both are -in thier own ways-somewhat dated- 

and im not sure its going to die yet-but timing and re-entry into the market at competitive prices with desireable product is critical


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## billsharron (Jan 3, 2008)

Well I'm the guy guilty of starting the new thread!! I just didn't connect the dots on the "LGB demise" title and thought it was the old thread from years ago. Most of my LGB friends tell me that the company went overboard producing the goofy specialty stuff i.e Coca-cola. Even the collector types among them were weary of them and didn't have room on the shelves anyway. Can you imagine the space it would take, not to mention the bucks to get one of everything!!. Some of them are gleeful about the demise because they feel it just makes their collections more valuable. The LGB items were definitely not moving at the Great Train Expo in St Louis last weekend and they didn't seem to be overpriced. The Dealer there said he personally talked to the head of Marklin and was assured product was on the water to the U.S. and that all problems with the line of credit were resolved. When I expressed doubt, he flamed me to my face and I made a hasty retreat to aviod further invectives!!!! It looks like the whole concept of 1:22.5 is going down the tubes. Bachmann didn't even add any new roadnames to their existing 1:22.5 product line except for the 150th Anniversary Boxcar. Everything else they do is 1:20.3 nd has been for years. It seems to me that 1:22.5 is now a dead duck!!!


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep! Märklin's LGB should just stay down and all us meter gauge RhB fans should start picking out our burial plots. Bill you have to realize that not all of us drink the three foot Colorado Kool-aid.


Jack


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL! Yes, as Jack says, there are many of us RhB fans that drink from a different cup. I believe Marklin was/is heading in the right direction by concentrating on their metre gauge products, and the detail has been getting much better in the last couple of years. People will always be willing to pay for quality, and other than say Kiss or Brawa, there aren't many reasonably priced alternatives. I'm hoping Porsche picks up the ball and runs with it. 

Keith


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Keith, I know ours is just a different flavor of drink. Rabid and Rhb do alliterate!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By thekollector on 02/10/2009 11:48 AM
Keith, I know ours is just a different flavor of drink. Rabid and Rhb do alliterate!


And cheers to that on all accounts!


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