# Spelling lesson please (when to use an apostrophe) NT



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I always have a problem when using apostrophes with locomotive names.

The following from wikihow.com is confusing to me:

Avoid using an apostrophe to indicate a plural.[/b] The incorrect use of an apostrophe to form the plural is called the greengrocer's apostrophe[/i], since grocers are often the worst (or at least the most visible) offenders. If you have more than one apple, then write apples[/i], not apple's[/i]. If you cannot replace the word with "his," "her," "their" or "its" and if it isn't a contraction, then an apostrophe should not be used.
[*]An exception to this use is in the case of making a single letter plural. Therefore, Why are there so many *I's* in the word "indivisibility"?[/i] is correct. This is simply for clarity reasons, so the reader does not mistake it for the word "is." However, in modern usage, the preference is to avoid inserting an apostrophe and instead surround the single letter in quotation marks before pluralizing it: Why are there so many "I"s in the word "indivisibility"?[/i] [*]*An exception can also be made for numbers and abbreviations*, although some consider this old fashioned, illogical and unnecessary. MLA guidelines suggest that no apostrophe is needed following numbers (as when naming a decade).

[*] [*]"I bought many CD's[/b] in the 1990's[/b]." Incorrect.[*]"I bought many CDs[/b] in the 1990s[/b]." Correct. [/list][/list] Where I most often run into the problem is if I want to talk about multiple locomotives such as FA-1s or F7s. That just looks wrong and FA-1's and F7's just looks more correct to me. It seems to get worse if I try to describe multiple unit locomotives such as ABBAs which seems to shout that it should be ABBA's.

Even in their example above Wikihow says it is OK to use an apostrophe for numbers and abbreviations they turn around and say that CD's is incorrect yet CD's looks a LOT better and more recognizable to me than CDs. Saying I was born in the 1940s looks wrong compared to saying I was born in the 1940's. The spell checker does not recognize 1940s, 1940's, CDs or CD's so perhaps it is confused as well.

Are there any English professors/teachers out there in MLS Land?

I don't mind being old fashioned since at 65 most of the things I grew up with are now considered old fashioned but being old fashioned is not the same as being incorrect.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not a professor, but my father was a teacher then a principal, and my mom earned her teaching credentials, both of them graduated from University of California Los Angeles. I could read before I entered kindergarten, so this is to underscore my training in reading and writing. 

What you quoted reads ok, but as you say, it sort of conflicts with itself. 

So CD's is incorrect, CDs is correct, but an exception can be made. That's how I interpret it. 

So feel free to use the exception for your F7's, my GP-9s will not get upset. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. I actually struggle with exactly what you have brought up, to me, it not only looks better with the apostrophe, but I think it "reads" better.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I want to talk about multiple locomotives such as FA-1s or F7s. That just looks wrong and FA-1's and F7's just looks more correct to me. 

Having been brought up in an english school, the idea of using an apostrophe when writing a plural, which may look correct to you, fills me with horror. If there's more than one loco, add an 's' on the end, as in E8s or SP-F4s. Never an apostrophe unless the noun is singular, as in "the F7's brakes were binding" or, if there is more than one F7, use "the F7s' brakes were binding."


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Follow Pete's lead, the other conflict is the Apostropy is also used to show possession... As in this is Jerry's thread. 

Daddy was a preacher, conveying one's thoughts correctly was enforced! 

John


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

When and when not to use an apostrophe is one of the more challenging English rules.

One that is easier but often disregarded is the use of too instead of to:





*"Too" means 
"more than enough" as *"I am too pleased."*
"also" as *"I am going too."*
"very" as "*I wasn't too angry with him."


*"To" indicates 
"direction" as *"We are going to the library."*
"action" as *"We are going to walk."


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Well well well... 

Neither and nor are also out of fashion!


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## post oak and otter lake (Dec 27, 2007)

I am a teacher of middle school students [grades 5,6,7,& 8] for 25 years; Special Ed for 16 of those years. 
I taught my students to only use the apostrophe for possessive nouns and contractions. Never for plurals, although I had a few students who would do that. It got marked as an error. 
I also taught indenting paragraphs, using correct punctuation, and correct spelling. I think Spell Check is the GREATEST invention, but you have to get it spelled close enough for Spell Check to recognize it. 
Using the correct word is important too. We would go over there, their, & they're early in the year and after that it was a ten point mistake on any written work. Same thing with to, too, & two. Never had any problems after the first time they lost points. 

Roger


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the one I see the most is "loose" and "lose", I believe people are mistyping and want lose but get an extra "o" and loose spell checks OK. This is where a spell checker is not enough, and you need a grammar checker like in Microsoft Word. 

I get emails all the time from the head of the company: "Don't loose sales"... 

Anyway, I try to follow the rules, but most people really do not care. I try to concentrate on making things clearer and break complex items into smaller pieces. I think that's the greater bang for the buck. 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The AP style guide I've got here allows for the apostrophe at the end of dates (1970's), though it is preferred to not use it (1970s). It's not "allowed" for plurals of things like CDs, F-7s, etc. Now, if you had a loco whose class was something like J-1S, would the plural be J-1Ses? 



Later, 

K


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

The thing that I find amusing, is putting the search value 'english style guide' into Google.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,

Now we're going to need a lesson on when and where to use commas!

Next week should be the correct use of the three words "There; their; and they're"


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, back in the 1990s were you buying Compact Discs or Certificates of Deposits... both are called CD's .... what do you have now.. music or money ??


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

OK I just can't, oh is this usage correct? Pass up my 2 cents.

I was always under the impression that the apostrophe was used for showing ownership..he's...their's Jane's etc...... if there is more then one then the apostrophe follows after the s.

All I know is if we understand what is being said does it really matter....in my line of work people are always correcting anyone who uses bad grammer or misspells words.....I look at these people as..boy how would you like to be married to them??? Because nothing will EVER be correct enough for anything in their lives'(?)

Now for Jerry's(ownership), question I see the relevence of asking this question for anything else does it really matter?

In my line of work if I had to spell and use grammer correctly....people would die because I do not always use grammer or spell correctly, but saving lives..I am right on the money baby!!! 

Bubba's 2 cents


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark I think we should all change over to using the conventions used for text messaging. Language has always been subjective based on usage that's why it changes over time, like it or not.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

I believe in using gud grammar, however sometimes it is easier to get a point across by speaking to the level of your subject. I use "--" a lot to emphasize a levity or object. This is incorrect but unlike the spoken word I cannot use a verbal tone to fully explain what I might mean when it's in print. Also much of our communication is of a conversational level and, as such, is quite informal and might be likened to a quick note. Add to this the fact that not everyone has the same background and you can inhibit the exchange of otherwise useful information by spending too much time worrying about every misplaced punctuation. Just because a person isn't an accomplished linguist doesn't mean that he can't teach us a thing or two about electronics, or engineering, or how to fix the refrigerator. 

Many may note that I use more commas than is the norm for today. That's because I'm old school and was taught many years ago to do so. It still disturbs me to see long sentences, where a comma used to be called for, without them. But I accept "what is". 

As to the use of the apostrophe, the original question, I use them to denote possession and in place of "is". I know that my love of "--"'s * * makes some people cringe but doesn't it make what I'm trying to say just a bit clearer? After all that's what language is supposed to be about. 

Everyone has his own opinions of course and I think it is always commendable when at least a rudimentary attempt is made to communicate properly. I just don't think it should be overemphasized.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Peeks over a wall... Are the Grammer Police coming? Yikes!!!!! 

I like slang....


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 22 Oct 2009 02:40 PM 
Peeks over a wall... Are the Grammer Police coming? Yikes!!!!! 

I like slang.... 
*Me too! *

*Also we need to be very careful about correcting others. I still remember when I was about 8 years old I noted that my uncle was using the word "ain't".*

*Wanting to show everybody how smart I was I quickly blurted out "There ain't no such word as ain't" and immediately became the laughing stock of everyone there. hehe!*
*T'was a painful lesson at the time. 
*


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

It has been a long standing un written rule here on MLS. We don't grade on Spelling here on MLS. How ever Neatness counts and show all your work. We don't care if your answer is right or not just how you got the answer. ( pictures are worth 10 points) 

I can't be bothered with spelling ( I use spell check some times) as I am too bussy ,as it was pointed out to me at the last Marty get together, adding color to MLS.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't mind bad grammar or spelling on the net so much. For some people "Engrish" is a second or even third language, for others, maybe they had to drop out and go to work to support their family in third grade way back when, so they never learned. And yes, some people probably are intellectually lazy, or get in a hurry. I'm not their English Tutor, so, as long as I can figure out what they are trying to say, it's good. 

Now, when confronted with grammar and spelling nazis, I'm just contrary enough to switch to something they often used on the original Dead Goat Saloon board called "radnick manglish".... whur yew basukully spel stuf awt fonetikulee wid a fayk eggzadjuraytud suthun aksent..... After 8 years I can still switch en an awt uv et at will, without really evur thenkun abawt et. hehehe


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I for one just spell it as I think will work. Don't worry about it here on the forums. I;m not in school anymore so I could care less and I'm getting to old to even worry about it. I do not work and when I did it was important due to the technical reports I wrote but now who gives a hoot.







. I'm retired. Ya buddy.







Life is to short to worry about it anyway. Later RJD


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

It has been at least implied here that as long as you are understood, it does not matter if it is grammatically correct... well, that also implies that if your incorrect use of grammar causes your missive to be misunderstood, it does matter!

So... Were you understood?

Also, how much time is being wasted by those that read your prose having to reread it to try to gain an understanding of what you wrote?

If it takes you 1 minute to read and correct your verbiage, that might save 200, 300 or 400 others from spending that same minute trying to work out what you meant.

Sure, those 200, 300 or 400 other minutes are not "your" minutes; no loss to you, so what do you care? Not much, I surmise. Well a sarcastic "Thanks" to you, I guess.

Besides... How many of your missives are misunderstood and left at that? Do you really want your fellow members of this forum to go away believing what they misunderstood you wrote?

Then again, why should I, or anyone else, spend that minute trying to figure out what you meant? If you didn't care enough to try to make it right, why should anyone care enough to read your words at all?

I am noticing that all of this "CARELESS" writing is bleeding over into the spoken word... I have heard the "pretty-face, talking-heads" on the news reading their own erroneous words, producing, if not utter nonsense, then complete misinformation!

Just a couple of days ago, while watching the News on TV, I heard severe confusion over the use of "Then" and "Than"... The "pretty face" said, "The group leader said he'd rather go to court, then have his hand cut off." I believe that is certainly NOT what the "group leader" meant!!!! He didn't mean "THEN", a sequence of events (going to court first and later having his hand cut off), he meant "THAN", alternative actions, doing one (going to court) "instead of" the other (losing his hand)!!!! But, the "talking head" just kept on smiling sweetly and reading. She may be drop dead gorgeous... but... can I trust her report that some politian wants to "spend less, THEN tax more"...???? Well.. wait a minute, bad example, that might be the correct usage... But, which is it?



EDIT: AFTER A REPLY WAS MADE... I used the word "YOU" and that might be taken as to imply I was replying directly to the previous poster... that is not necessarily so as I started writing my eloquent prose long before it was posted... it was intended to mean ANYBODY that does not care enough about what they are saying/writing to attempt to make it correct... just like what I did by using the word "YOU" and assumming it would be taken to mean more than just one person... yes, I am pointing my finger directly at YOU, the reader of this... as well as having three fingers pointed back at myself and the thumb up toward Heaven, so I must be very careful as to what I imply and I was not all that careful in the first place, was I?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well apparently you read it.







I sure not going to loose any sleep over it. Later RJD


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

To clarify I was being self-critical (that does not bother me) and I was not suggesting that anyone else should or should not do anything.

There are times when I choose words that may or may not agree with others such as cabooses vs cabeese. In the South it sometimes depends on the company I am in when I pronounce the word "coyote." I am not as much concerned about using incorrect words as long as I KNOW when I am using incorrect words. Some people cringe when I say F1-ABBA but I continue to do it because it is easier for me to remember and I think everyone recognizes what I am talking about. 

I agree that forums and the English language are all about communication and I would never criticize anyone for their spelling. Many of my smartest customers and friends are terrible spellers but they had private secretaries to handle their spelling for them. Sometimes I will invent a word when existing words do not seem appropriate since after all that is how the language evolves.

It happens that I prefer the use of a apostrophe with numbers and abbreviations (perhaps that is what I was taught 60 years ago) so a confirmation that it is acceptable may be what I was looking for.

My mother was a private secretary and many years ago I was a Dictaphone Salesman. I also had Jesuit English teachers so I have always had "proper" grammar and spelling drilled into me.

I don't know if I could get used to writing F7s and F1As. It just does not look right to me. I'd just like to confirm that the exception is or is not legitimate.

Just for the heck of it I ran F1As, F1A's, CDs, CD's through the Word spelling and grammar checker and all passed. Then again I once won a bet with a Word Perfect Salesman about an error in their spelling checker so nothing is perfect.

As for buying CD's I usually bought reel to reel recorders and some cassette tape recorders and never did buy an 8 track player. I still have some old computer manuals that referred to 3 1/2" and 5 1/4" media variously as disks or as discs. To me disk seems the most logical.

My wife is British so we have had some interesting discussions as our children went through school. There was a time when "the British way" was the ONLY way until some papers came home and British spelling was not acceptable to American teachers.









Thanks,

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Oh yes , the British. I think they invented English.







Of course in America, we haven't use it for years







According to Herry Higgings in My Fair Lady.


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi, Jerry - You posed a great question. I'm a lawyer (gasps of horror all round) in the Boston office of Ropes & Gray, a firm with about 1,000 attorneys spread out over a bunch of offices. One of the first things we give new attorneys is Strunk & White's _Elements of Style_. It's no longer considered the absolute authority on every question of grammar - I know people who swear by the Chicago Manual of Style, for instance - but it will rarely steer you wrong. If you'd like a copy, send me a PM with your address and I'll gladly send you one. Jon


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This topic seems to always end in polarity... the people who do not have perfect spelling or grammar get upset at those who can and/or do. 

Personally, I can usually figure out what anyone means, but to me it's distracting when the words are poorly spelled, or the grammar is bad. 

More irritating is where the lack of communication results in several questions trying to ferret out the intended meaning... the person I'm asking gets defensive, or upset, etc. 

I don't ask the impossible, but there ARE spell checkers, and there ARE grammar checkers. 

Personally, since many of my communications must by by email (to provide an audit trail on tasks) it just wears at me... 

So, when people make the effort to communicate well, I appreciate it, and am more willing to put forth more effort on my part. 

Regards, Greg


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

This subject can really get me going! 

I do think it's important to preserve our language. I don't think we should go as far as the French who have a 20-member "language police" committee from four government agencies. Of course their main job is to make sure that English words don't find their way into everyday French. I read an article recently about the many hours the committee has met trying to convert the term "cloud computing" into French. They're still meeting on it.


My list of grievances is long, but at the top of the list is the use of "their" or "there" instead of "they're", and the use of "your" instead of "you're".


Just an old fuddy-duddy...


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By jlinde on 22 Oct 2009 10:19 PM 
Hi, Jerry - You posed a great question. I'm a lawyer (gasps of horror all round) in the Boston office of Ropes & Gray, a firm with about 1,000 attorneys spread out over a bunch of offices. One of the first things we give new attorneys is Strunk & White's _Elements of Style_. It's no longer considered the absolute authority on every question of grammar - I know people who swear by the Chicago Manual of Style, for instance - but it will rarely steer you wrong. If you'd like a copy, send me a PM with your address and I'll gladly send you one. Jon 

Hi Jon,

Thank you for your kind offer. I have sent my address to you.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 22 Oct 2009 10:29 PM 
This topic seems to always end in polarity... the people who do not have perfect spelling or grammar get upset at those who can and/or do. 


I think the situation can be summed up fairly accurately this way:

1. Some folks take offense when no offense was intended. In my opinion it is the attitude of the commenter that is more important than the words used.

2. Some folks insist on offering advice when none was requested or wanted. Often this "advice" is demanding to the point of being offensive.

3. The written word, without the facial expressions of a visual encounter, can often by itself lead to misunderstandings and conflicts.

4. Sometimes individuals may have a good or bad inter-personal relationship that gives words exchanged totally different meanings than perceived by others.

5. Some people have no interest in taking themselves or this hobby seriously while others are very intense regarding their feelings about the hobby.

6. Some people have job histories that require/required precise written language skills (I used to write bid proposals) while others have job histories that seldom involve/involved written communications. 

7. Perhaps the simplest but least obvious - some people have never had a need to learn how to type or to spell or to use "proper" grammar so understandably they may take offense when none was intended when it comes to their typing, spelling and grammar skills. Anyone would take offense if they felt they were being talked down to.

8. I thought I was done but then there can always be the potential of someone using their verbal and writing skills as intentional weapons. There are a few who privately admit that they enjoy starting conflicts.

9. And then some of us are retired and have more time to review, spell check and grammar check what we write before posting while others may not have the luxury of time.

10. Even regional differences can effect communications. Words and phrases from one part of the country (or world) may take on a different meaning somewhere else.

In my case I was 500+ miles from management so I had more written corporate communication than verbal communications. If my writing appeared "dumb" I would have been judged "dumb" by people I never met. Life is not fair and never was.

Perhaps Dale Carnegie summed it up best of all when he said:

"If you see Jim Jones through Jim Jones' eyes, you will sell Jim Jones what Jim Jones buys."

Cheers,

Jerry


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Going back to the original question about using the apostrophe to indicate a plural of an acronym (or for example a locomotive class), I can see the merits of both sides of the argument, but I prefer to continue to use the apostrophe. When talking about steam locomotive classes especially, it was very common to have sub-classes designated by a letter (Y6b, J1e, etc.) so the apostrophe helps to differentiate the plural-indicating "s" from the rest of the class/subclass designation. That's particularly useful when talking about Pennsylvania locomotives, since they used a lowercase "s" to indicate that a locomotive was superheated (K4s, I1sa, etc.). Besides, it seems appropriate to use an outdated language convention to talk about an outdated technology! That brings up another common spelling error that I see a lot in railroad-related discussions: Apparently when the railroads switched to diesel, a lot of people seem to think that the steam locomotives were _scraped_.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

yup scraped off the face of the earth!


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hehe! Well they quite possibly were scraped before they were scrapped.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By rwjenkins on 23 Oct 2009 08:58 AM 
a lot of people seem to think that the steam locomotives were _scraped_. 

A perfect example of where a spell checker and even a grammar checker would be of little help since you could scrape the markings off a steam locomotive to show that it has been taken out of service prior to being scrapped. Anyway I would guess that such scraping might have happened.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice summary Jerry, but I have a comment (not a disagreement) on your #2: 

"2. Some folks insist on offering advice when none was requested or wanted." (the second sentence I have no problem with, offensive is never good). 

This is a open forum. When you post something, you do not "own" the thread. By posting publicly, and by the VERY NATURE of a forum, you are inviting comments. 

You MUST accept that there can be comments, and yes, YOUR intention may get "derailed". 

It's a matter of courtesy to stay on topic, but also NOT MANDATED by the rules of this forum. 

So, I take exception to your #2. I know of some people who will not post on this forum because someone took "THEIR" thread and "trashed it" with 13 pages of comments. The thread, and the right to comment belongs to ALL people on the forum, UNTIL Shad says otherwise. 

As an example, you posted about the Revo TE, and REQUESTED that people not start it into an argument. Most people honored your REQUEST, but they were not REQUIRED to. 

(As an aside, I did the same thing on another thread about DCC and did not enjoy the same "insulation"... that's life!







) 

This is a forum, and everyone has the RIGHT to comment, so you cannot always expect not to get "advice" when you don't want it. 

We all have to accept this, the only person who "OWNS" anything is Shad. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 23 Oct 2009 11:07 AM 


"2. Some folks insist on offering advice when none was requested or wanted." (the second sentence I have no problem with, offensive is never good). 

Nice summary Jerry, but I have a comment (not a disagreement) on your #2: 



Hi Greg,

I think you misunderstood what I meant or perhaps I was not clear enough in the way I phrased it.

Rather than suggesting anything about topics (I agree with your comments about them) I was instead referring to (as an example) when someone posts that they are looking for a way to do something only to be told that what they want to do (with their money, their time and their effort) is wrong and that they should stop what they are doing and instead do something totally different because (in the eyes of the poster) there is only one way to do something and everyone is expected to comply with their way of doing it.

Changing a subject of a topic is something that happens all the time. 

What I was referring to is the occasional lack of common courtesy between individuals that tends to crop up from time to time. My use of F1-ABBA is a perfect example. If it is wrong and someone wishes to advise me it is incorrect they are free to do so but once they have given me the information of the proper way to describe a FA-1; FB-1; FB-1; FA-1 then if I choose to continue to use a shorthand version (for my personal convenience and preference) and call it a F1-ABBA then it becomes discourteous for someone to continue to admonish me for the incorrect term. The same is true if I ask a question about DCC and someone refers me to read a book. The decision to buy or not buy and read or not read a book is mine to make. The difference between suggesting it once and repeating the suggestion is the difference between courtesy and disrespect.

It is OK to have a different opinion about something whether it is an object or a method of operation but it is NOT OK to be disrespectful of someone else's intention or desire to do something different. 

You prefer QSI and generic DCC but you respect my choice of the Revolution and MTS. I prefer the Revolution and MTS but I respect your choice of QSI and generic DCC. Neither of us are disrespectful of each other or of each other's choices which is all I was saying.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I completely agree on what you said. 

Like when someone says I am using "nuclear power" for my trains, and needs help with something, and everyone jumps on to switch him to "natural gas" power instead of helping him with his problem.











Greg


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By markoles on 22 Oct 2009 01:27 PM 
Steve,

Now we're going to need a lesson on when and where to use commas!

Next week should be the correct use of the three words "There; their; and they're"

Or, the correct use of the words "axel" (a jump in figure skating) and "axle" (something actually related to trains).









-Jim, who thoroughly enjoyed reading Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation by Lynne Truss and Sleeping Dogs Don't Lay: Practical Advice for the Grammatically Challenged by Richard Lederer and Richard Dowis


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, Axel, of Train-Li is MOST definitely related to trains! hahahahaha! 

Greg


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Rimfire Jim 

You beat me to recommending those two books. I find Eats, Shoots and Leaves to be more useful than Strunk & White. 

BTW, the proper term for the misused plural apostrophe is the "GREENGROCER's APOSTROPHE" . It comes from the common use on signs in the store front like "Cabbage's and Carrot's On Sale" 

And [IMHO] I think that proper spelling and grammar is often important in communicating complex technical subject matter. IF you don't believe it, just read any early Instruction booklet for the assembly of an Aster live steam locomotive kit. 

Also, I note that Richard did not fall prey to the common error of putting a hyphen in the PRR locomotive classes. Nothing sets off an SPF quicker than to write GG-1 or J-1a instead of GG1 and J1a. 

Regards


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 23 Oct 2009 07:05 AM 
Posted By jlinde on 22 Oct 2009 10:19 PM 
Hi, Jerry - You posed a great question. I'm a lawyer (gasps of horror all round) in the Boston office of Ropes & Gray, a firm with about 1,000 attorneys spread out over a bunch of offices. One of the first things we give new attorneys is Strunk & White's _Elements of Style_. It's no longer considered the absolute authority on every question of grammar - I know people who swear by the Chicago Manual of Style, for instance - but it will rarely steer you wrong. If you'd like a copy, send me a PM with your address and I'll gladly send you one. Jon 

Hi Jon,

Thank you for your kind offer. I have sent my address to you.

Regards,

Jerry


As an update I have since received "Strunk & White's _Elements of Style_" from Jon. It is a small (pocket size) book yet it seems to jump right to the more common questions I tend to have. The use of the apostrophe was on page 1 and is the first topic of the book.

Many thanks Jon,

Jerry


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 29 Oct 2009 02:23 PM 
BTW, the proper term for the misused plural apostrophe is the "GREENGROCER's APOSTROPHE" . It comes from the common use on signs in the store front like "Cabbage's and Carrot's On Sale" 


Exemplified by the sign in a designated spot in the parking lot where I work:

Car Wash or Detailing
(Tuesday's Only)

Always makes me wonder, "Tuesday's only what . . .?" 


I can understand accidentally leaving out an apostrophe where one is called for, but it baffles me why people feel compelled to add one where it's not.


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