# F units



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I was just wondering through E bay in the G scale section when I noticed a few F units for sale. I may want another A unit for my Streamliner train.


What confused me was Some of the F unit nose is longer than others. 

The ones with longer noses are not F units I think

What am I missing here? 

JJ


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Link please............


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By John J on 23 Apr 2010 04:08 PM 
I was just wondering through E bay in the G scale section when I noticed a few F units for sale. I may want another A unit for my Streamliner train.


What confused me was Some of the F unit nose is longer than others. 

The ones with longer noses are not F units I think

What am I missing here? 

JJ


Possibly PA's?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Or E units. Later RJD


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

OK.. I poked my nose in Evil-Bay and searched F Units under G scale and all I saw were 16 USA units, 2 MTH and 1 LGB. All the USA units will have the same nose length, the paint scheme may make some noses appear longer though (the Southern RR paint in partciular). The MTH unis are a 1:32 I believe, so they will look smaller than the 1:29 USAs. And (in my opinion) the LGB F units don't look anything like an F unit.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

JJ get you some USA F units. I have had mine for years lots of run hours and no problems. And if you want I'll put them on ebay so you think your getting a deal. LOL


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

I could go into a lot more detail but this should be enough to help:

EMD F unit (F3 A and B by USA Trains)











EMD E unit (E8 A by Aristo Craft)










Alco FA (FA by Aristo Craft)(To be correct, Santa Fe never had any FAs)











Alco PA (PA and B by USA Trains)


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ... there's some smokin' deals on PA/PB sets. $239 for a set is a steal. They would need some healthy batteries if you were to convert to batteries.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Ok Matt hit the nail on the head. 

That is exactly what I was taliking about. 

One nose is longer than the others. 

That is what I wanted to know 

I think


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristo FA and FB units, USA F3 units, LGB F7A and F7B units, USA PA//PB units long noses. Aristo E8 units. 

These are the ones I have seen, and the LGB F7 are big (1/22.5) and the others are 1/29. 

LGB does not have powered B units, but placed digital sound in them instead. Other manufacturer B units come powered.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Sometimes the Aristo FA's get listed as F's. That could be the cause of JJ's befuddlement? (Is that a word?)


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Paul Burch on 24 Apr 2010 08:06 AM 
Sometimes the Aristo FA's get listed as F's. That could be the cause of JJ's befuddlement? (Is that a word?)




Ues a word 10 times in a sentance and its yours


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ,
You coming to the convention in August? If you are, come on over for a visit and I will will set you up with some freight switching operations that will really befuddlemuck you.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ take lots of photos over at Pauls.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

2 reasons, I guess: 

1. There were lots of different style "F units." 

B. Any round nose diesel tends to get called an "F unit." 

stick with steam


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never heard Alcos called F units, always FA, or PA, or Alco, since the nose is so much different, i.e. squared off and basically flat on top as compared to EMD products. 

But I guess they could look similar at a distance. 

Regards, Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I thought the style that Aristo Craft made were F A and F B units A being the engine B being the slave. 

I thought the F unints had more of a snub nose than that PA/Alco style units. 

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, exactly, they look pretty similar in "nose shape", to me the distinction is F and E units have rounded edges, and the FA and the PA have a flatter top to the nose and sharper edge where it goes vertical. 

And to make it even more fun, the earlier E units have more of a shovel nose like in my signature. Notice my avatar, which is an F7 I believe. 

Regards, Greg


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Apr 2010 11:03 PM 

And to make it even more fun, the earlier E units have more of a shovel nose like in my signature. Notice my avatar, which is an F7 I believe. 

Regards, Greg 
That's an F3 in your avatar. Famous pic of F3 #19 that that crashed through the barrier at LAUPT.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Actually Greg, the E units came after the Fs! Not alphabetical, but rather horse power. The Fs were rated at 1350 HP rounded up to 1400 and the Es were rated at 1800 HP, thus Fourteen hundred and Eighteen hundred Horses. 

The easiest way to detrmine an Alco PA and FA is by the headlight frame/grill.It's square and EMD headlights were all round with small trim. I belive the major difference betwit the two Alcos were gearing and the PA was longer to house a boiler for steam heating of the passenger cars. Engineers noted that they felt safer in the FA and PAs because they sat farther back from the track and trucks at crossings!

Shouldn't take a steam foamer to help you with your dismals.... lol 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, the Santa Fe E1 units were built in 1937-1938 

The EMD F units, and I believe Santa Fe was either the first or second to have the F3's were built in 1946. almost 10 years later. 

(I did specify I was talking about the EMD units, not the Alcos) 

The Santa Fe FT units were built for a number of years, starting in 1940, after the E1 units. 

See my prototypes page, and diesel roster on my site. 

Regards, Greg


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## Bryan Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg: Isn't Santa Fe have E5 passenger locomotive?? then they order E7 and E8? or maybe i wrong.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What I know is E1, E3, E6, E8 for the Santa Fe... I could have missed some... 

I'm still adding to my prototypes list. 

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...inmenu-124* 


Any references to any E units not on my list above (Santa Fe only!) would be welcome! 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Ooooopps









I wasthinking it was based on developing bigger motors, forgot High passenger HP could be wasted on a freight loco...

some days................

John


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Past rivet counting competion model building mode on.... 

The big problem with many of the LS EMD cab units is the nose and windshields are a real dog's dinner. There is a copy of Garden Railways here at the house that has some Espee EMD F units on the cover and the windshileds are not even close to right, square corners? Blech....! 

Anyhow, this is not a LS only issue. In HO, the Highliner/Athearn ones are the only correct ones per a friend of mine that did a lot of prototype and drawing work for a few makers. Compare these to the LifeLike E7/8 noses, Stewart, etc and one can see the errors. Intermountain were a close second. 

Mode off, back to fun model railroading.....(thank goodness!)


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 27 Apr 2010 11:56 PM 
Past rivet counting competion model building mode on.... 

The big problem with many of the LS EMD cab units is the nose and windshields are a real dog's dinner. There is a copy of Garden Railways here at the house that has some Espee EMD F units on the cover and the windshileds are not even close to right, square corners? Blech....! 




I agree with the "dogs dinner" comment.. some of the cab and windsheilds are noticably "off"..but that is a difficult contour to get right! 

The USA Trains F3 has a noticable squashed nose..too short.. I always thought the LGB F7 looked better, as far as the cab goes, but the rest of the loco is a mess..
Aristo E8 is pretty close, but again something is just a bit off with the cab and nose..not quite right. 
the MTH F7, to me, looks excellent! the best looking F-unit out there..but of course its 1/32 scale! which matches nothing else I have..  

USA Trains Alco PA is gorgeous..I see nothing "off" with it at all.. 
I have a LV set of Alco PA's, and they are my favorite locomotives. 
the Aristo FA is pretty good..sits too high though, and the cab windows are a bit oddly shaped. 

IMO, there is still room for a *really* good 1/29 scale EMD F-unit! 
right now, I dont really want the USA trains F3, I dont like the way it looks.
I would consider the MTH units, because I think they look excellent, but I would have to make a whole 1/32 scale train to go with them..which is a concern. 

Scot


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 27 Apr 2010 11:56 PM 
...In HO, the Highliner/Athearn ones are the only correct ones per a friend of mine that did a lot of prototype and drawing work for a few makers. Compare these to the LifeLike E7/8 noses, Stewart, etc and one can see the errors. Intermountain were a close second. 


I have both Athearn and Intermountain HO scale F units. I think the Athearn/Highliners are the best in any scale. Great job on that super difficult to simulate F unit nose.

Here are Athearn F3s:











And here are Intermountain F7s:












Apart from the slightly off nose of the USA F3, what kind of bugs me more is the strange font they use for the number boards. It just doesn't look right to me...at least on the Santa Fe units.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Rememeber the *old* Athearn F-units? 
I had several when I was a kid..the windows were terrible, too big and too square: 

http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz348/D-DoggRules/AthearnF7ABSet.jpg 

I remember a magazine article from the 80's where the author completely filled in the windows with styrene and putty, then cut out brand-new windows! 
looked somewhat better, but took a lot of effort.. 
then Athearn completely re-designed their F-unit, making todays far superior model.. 

Scot


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

EMD F units had a single prime mover. E units had two. Passenger verses freight is actually determined by the gearing. Thus we have Santa Fe (for example) F units in the Warbonnet that were used for passenger service, and F units that were painted in the blue and yellow for freight. The gearing for these locomotives was totally different based on their intended function.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have found out after intesive research that people on E bay were miss labling thier engines. Hence I was confused. Well more than usual.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By John J on 29 Apr 2010 02:04 PM 
I have found out after intensive research that people on E bay were miss labeling their engines. Hence I was confused. Well more than usual 

Don't feel bad John, this is a fairly common problem on E-bay. Hence "Caveat Emptor(buyer beware)". By the way how did your tunnel project come out? I have been doing other things and kinda drifted away for a while. But now I am back in the fold.


Andre


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