# Dear Santa & Accucraft, are you listening?



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Happy New Year to All. I know for me, 2011 is gonna rock!

I felt I had to speak up and, break confidence and share part of an email I sent to Pete Thornton regarding a previous post about dream locomotives and my choice for an Atlantic. I have been saying this for a few years and I still sit/stand by it. And with late breaking news of the live steam H-8 I think the time to speak up is now. Think smaller! And not just for econimcal reasons.

What follows was my reply to Pete on why I chose the 4-4-2 Atlantic as opposed to the symmetry and balance of the 4-6-2. (Is there anybody out there?)



You ask a very good question and I do agree with you on the balance of the Pacific. My choice for the Atlantic is based on two reasons.


First is historical seeing the 4-4-2 was for a short period THE passenger engine. Until the Pacific came along and the Atlantic was sent to the branch lines to play; then the diesel electrics showed up and ruined everything.

Second is more personal. My train passion has always been the larger steam engines, that facet is pacified by my Accucraft Sparkie Big Boy. One of my long term plans is to use the brass REA for housing batteries and receiver.

When it comes to live steam, being constantly seated and many times having the use of only one hand when it comes to lifting, the S12 was the perfect choice. Then she went into the shop and returned to service as S-14 #1285. I am all set for locomotives at this time, however the next $400 I find would go to the upcoming brass flatcars and gondolas.

So with that being said; if someone with the where-how to make it happen asked me what the next U.S. live steam locomotive should be my pitch goes something live this:

1:32 scale first and foremost. There are many NG offerings out there, and more on the way. And now we've contaminated the steam pool with AML and 1:29. The purity of 1:32 has to be kept.

It should be a small locomotive. We have Berks, Hudsons, CFs, Mikados, S2s. F4s and F5s. Oh MY! And a new Challenger will be coming soon to claim his turf in the neighborhood. That is enough for a while, take a break.

The S-12 is an excellent choice for a small work engine, we have freight and shunting covered. With a small passenger locomotive offering the modeler can run true to form with three or four carriages. And this also points back to the NG choices, small engines pulling a few passenger cars. 1:32 has no representation.

Accucraft has done a ton of research on the SP to date so why not continue with existing leads and connections? Not to mention the uniqueness of the vandy tender. So now................................... 

I present to you the next live steam offering from Accucraft - 1:32 Southern Pacific A-3 Atlantic with Vanderbilt tender[/b]. *Ooooooos and Aaaaaaas from the crowd followed by unrestrained applause* (I also love the play on the oceans there)

There you have it, why the Atlantic. Just my, what is it up to now?...six or sevens cents at least. Thanks for listening. 



I can dream can't I?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

and Kent, being a Harriman locomotive, it can also be Union Pacific or Chicago & Alton.
The attached is a scratch built Gauge 1 one, of the C&A version, that sold just recently privately. 
Sorry about the quality of the picture, but it was taken from a spreadsheet! 
I still have an HO Rivarossi model of the A5 version that my brother gave me when I was 12 years old.
It is a very pretty looking locomotive. 
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

Kent; I have not figured out why none of the manufactures have offered or made an Atlantic to date. I converted a ARISTOCRAFT MIKADO into a fair representation of an ALANTIC. It is now all manual control with a new Butane tank and a axle pump. It is a very nice running loco. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NZpP3hqH-o


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Kent, 

I agree regarding the appeal of an Atlantic. I think a stately-looking American standard-gauge 4-4-0 of the period just prior to the introduction of the Atlantic type would be cool too. 

Steve


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Shyvers on 31 Dec 2010 10:53 AM 
Kent, 

I agree regarding the appeal of an Atlantic. I think a stately-looking American standard-gauge 4-4-0 of the period just prior to the introduction of the Atlantic type would be cool too. 

Steve 


I know I would like a 4-4-0 with big drivers (ala the "General" of American Civil War fame), but I agree that the hobby needs some 1:32 scale (emphasize both *1:32 *and *scale*) _small _ locomotives and the Atlantic would be a very good start.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

The trouble with a small loco in 1/32nd scale is the smallth of the boiler it carries. The only successful small loco Class 1 I've ever seen belongs to Mr Squires, and by comparison to even a P8 it is truly minute. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 31 Dec 2010 12:58 PM 
The trouble with a small loco in 1/32nd scale is the smallth of the boiler it carries. The only successful small loco Class 1 I've ever seen belongs to Mr Squires, and by comparison to even a P8 it is truly minute. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund 

Would it really be all that much smaller, than say, the Ruby boiler?


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 31 Dec 2010 01:29 PM 
Posted By tacfoley on 31 Dec 2010 12:58 PM 
The trouble with a small loco in 1/32nd scale is the smallth of the boiler it carries. The only successful small loco Class 1 I've ever seen belongs to Mr Squires, and by comparison to even a P8 it is truly minute. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund 

Would it really be all that much smaller, than say, the Ruby boiler? 
Not far off 'bout the same size, but I'd be guessing. However, how many 'Ruby's' are expected to perform for half an hour right off hauling four or five full-size passenger cars, it all I'm saying.

BTW, have you actually seen an 1870's era American locomotive in 1/32nd scale, let alone 'General' of the American 4-4-0 type? Big they are not.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Tac, 
I agree about the earlier locos and the small diameter of the boiler, but that is why the Atlantic of the early 1900's is perfect for a small loco. 
It would take a 2" diameter boiler which is a 'good' size. 
Now we just need someone to build them for a price that we are willing to pay! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's a couple of photos of what I had in mind for late 19th century 4-4-0 locomotives. These are from http://thelibrary.springfield.misso...team02.cfm.

Not diminutive locomotives. In 1/32 scale the boiler size is probably similar to an Accucraft mogul or S-12.


















Steve


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## LNER D17 (Jan 4, 2009)

My Pennsy D16sb is the biggest 4-4-0 Ii have as my others are all British prototypes. They are all meths fired and will run for as long as required. I tend to run in half hour slots on my track and the meths tanks need topping up after about 15 mins, I add water on the fly pouring it into the tender tanks with an old teapot. What they do have are axle pumps, so it is possible by adjusting the bypass to keep the water level about right. As a breed they can be a bit quick as they have large wheels and are prone to slipping. Never the less the D16sb has pulled a rake of 5 brass heavy weights. these are scale models and not reduced in length. She has pulled this rake [sadly not mine} twice now and kept up a good pace for the full half hour plus. My old City of Truro a large GWR 4-4-0 built up from a Barrett kit has frequently pulled a coach rakes of aluminium bodyed passenger coaches and again was well able to perform at a sensible speed for half an hour and more if wanted. I also have a coal fired British Southern Railway Atlantic which would be no bigger than an American prototype and she has pulled a nine coach train. So I don't think that a US meths fired Atlantic modeled from a late 19th early 20th century prototype would be too small for G1 live steam but it would need an axle pump and bypass which would add to the cost. I feel that an Enots Valve and separate spray water filler wouldn't be quite the same as a self sufficient system which allows a prolonged run.
Happy new year.
John Squire


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 31 Dec 2010 02:08 PM 
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 31 Dec 2010 01:29 PM 
Posted By tacfoley on 31 Dec 2010 12:58 PM 
The trouble with a small loco in 1/32nd scale is the smallth of the boiler it carries. The only successful small loco Class 1 I've ever seen belongs to Mr Squires, and by comparison to even a P8 it is truly minute. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund 

Would it really be all that much smaller, than say, the Ruby boiler? 
Not far off 'bout the same size, but I'd be guessing. However, how many 'Ruby's' are expected to perform for half an hour right off hauling four or five full-size passenger cars, it all I'm saying.

BTW, have you actually seen an 1870's era American locomotive in 1/32nd scale, let alone 'General' of the American 4-4-0 type? Big they are not.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund 





Sadly, no I haven't seen any 1:32 scale 4-4-0's, but I do have many models of them in other scales, from 'Z' to 1:25 (the plastic AML/Ertl models) and I have been in the cab of the 1:1 real thing.

And yes, in comparing different scale models of steam locomotives with the (same scale) 4-4-0 I can see that the boiler would be "small". And that would make the run times short (without an axle pump) and without a proportionally larger heating surface it may be a weak locomotive --- so the boiler would need some serious engineering to get the most out of it.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By LNER D17 on 31 Dec 2010 02:59 PM 
_*My Pennsy D16sb is the biggest 4-4-0*_ Ii have as my others are all British prototypes. They are all meths fired and will run for as long as required. I tend to run in half hour slots on my track and the meths tanks need topping up after about 15 mins, I add water on the fly pouring it into the tender tanks with an old teapot. What they do have are axle pumps, so it is possible by adjusting the bypass to keep the water level about right. As a breed they can be a bit quick as they have large wheels and are prone to slipping. Never the less the D16sb has pulled a rake of 5 brass heavy weights. these are scale models and not reduced in length. She has pulled this rake [sadly not mine} twice now and kept up a good pace for the full half hour plus. My old City of Truro a large GWR 4-4-0 built up from a Barrett kit has frequently pulled a coach rakes of aluminium bodyed passenger coaches and again was well able to perform at a sensible speed for half an hour and more if wanted. I also have a coal fired British Southern Railway Atlantic which would be no bigger than an American prototype and she has pulled a nine coach train. So I don't think that a US meths fired Atlantic modeled from a late 19th early 20th century prototype would be too small for G1 live steam but it would need an axle pump and bypass which would add to the cost. I feel that an Enots Valve and separate spray water filler wouldn't be quite the same as a self sufficient system which allows a prolonged run.
Happy new year.
John Squire 





Kent, et al

This is on our build list (after the N & W Class J 611) given the almost impossible task of finding a Barrett production model . The actual engine is housed about 3 hours from here at the PRR Museum:











As to running times and operation we have seen numerous 1:32 small engines running for extended track time including several Asters. Yes, they might take a bit more tending to and a few more station stops but that is the nature of the beast.


Then we could follow up with the PRR. 460 is called "The Lindbergh Engine":


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Of course if there were a 1:32 Atlantic then we'd need some 1:32 heavyweights to pull behind. A combine, coach or two and observation would be just about perfect. Guess that should be added to the build list.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Kent
Already have them via J & M but others could be built from Pete Comley or David Wright. Pete is currently offering a production run. I am not sure about David's schedule:


Sunset Valley Railroad 

http://p10.hostingprod.com/@wrightwayrollingstock.com/index
Wrightway 




We will give you a ring once the Atlantic is on the table if you would be interested


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a 1:32 4-4-0 that I recently aquired. They are out there just have to be at the right place at the right time


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason, 

Could you give us any details on that locomotive?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles;

I attended Millersville State College from September, 1965 through 1967, graduating in January, 1968. During those years, the Christmas parade in Lancaster was usually the Saturday before Thanksgiving. The D16sb was leased from the PRR by the Strasburg Railroad during those years. Since the D16sb was still a PRR locomotive, it was allowed on the mainline between Strasburg and Lancaster. Before the Christmas parade, the D16sb would depart Strasburg with three coaches full of children, parents, and Santa. It would travel the PRR mainline, then switch to the track that went up the center of Dock Street. The D16sb and its train barely cleared the cars parked on both sides of Dock Street. A small diesel switcher was tied to the rear of the train as a helper, and it would be shoving with everything it had. At King Street, Santa would transfer from the train to a hook and ladder fire truck and join the Christmas parade to the Watt & Shand department store. There the hook and ladder truck would hoist Santa to the roof of Watt & Shand. I have many fond memories of watching that train come slowly up Dock Street.

Didn't mean to highjack the thread, but thought folks might apprediate this information about one fine little 1:1 4-4-0.

Yours,
David Meashey


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Kovacjr on 31 Dec 2010 05:30 PM 
Here is a 1:32 4-4-0 that I recently aquired. They are out there just have to be at the right place at the right time













Scratchbuilt 4-4-0 built after the Boston & Maine. Meths fired, axle pump. Very well built and runs just as well. 

Of course being a light 1:32 loco you wont be able to pull any heaveweights. The J&M are way too heavy for it. Though the set my friend has he converted to ball bearing and they are easier so well see next time.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

An Atlantic would be nice! 
My little Wada Camelback can handle the 5 J&M coaches, so the Atlantic and 4-4-0 should have no problems!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4s1rDsj_oI





Ray


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