# "Standard" Siding Length



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

Hello,

I have posted this topic in the live steam section because I believe that live steam dedicated railroads and designed much differently than electric track power, or even battery power.

So I was wondering, since I have not had the privilege to go to any other live steam railroads - what is the norm for siding length.

Now I know there is not going to be a set standard, and some people will have huge sidings, and others very short, but what seems to be a good average length for sidings?

Our railroad is very small right now, but we are ripe with plans of expansion, and I always want to be a railroad that can accommodate others. In addition to a yard, we are planning to build a turn table which will be probably around 48-50" long to accommodate any size locomotive.


Thanks,

Patrick


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

How about...

A foot, (30 cm), longer than the longest train you ever want to park on the siding.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Best solution: as long as you can make it!  

Scot


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

On almost every live steam layout I've run on, the sidings also serve as steamup bays as most live steam tracks lack a yard or dedicated steamup bays. As a result, the sidings quickly fill up with both locos in prep for a run and with parked equipment (locos and cars). One often needs to juggle things around just to create a spot on a siding to put a loco on the track and prep it for a run. And this on layouts with a 20' siding running along each side. 

A yard would help to store parked equipment. A turntable with dedicated steamup bays would also help, though it's probable that locos will also be parked there. As most live steamers tend to run in the same direction (clockwise or counterclockwise) on any given day, passing sidings are seldom used to actually accommodate passing trains. At the steamups I attend, it's relatively common to see two trains on the same loop of track, but running in the same direction and generally under radio control. Sidings are used to park equipment and to pull onto/off of the main when beginning and ending a run. 

Just my experience.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Patrick, 
Whatever you do it will never be quite long enough! 
If you make it capable of a 10 car Daylight train, someone will come with the 12 car consist. 
But if you make it for 12 cars, they will come with 14, and so on and so on. 
I really believe that you have to build YOUR railway, for what you intend to use it. 
No point adding huge long sidings just for the one day a year that you have a bunch of friends over. 
However, if those 'others' are going to be there every week, then I would do so. 
Whatever you do, enjoy the building - it is a hobby to be enjoyed. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

Yes,

I understand that we need to build what suits us, I just didnt know if there was a tendency for people to build a specific length yard for whatever reason. 


I will have to go out back sometime this week and better survey the area, we are thinking a 4 track yard with a turn table further down.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Patrick, I agree with the above posters. I recently built a portable live steam track There is a siding on each side of the oval and was originally designed to be the steaming bay. (It's difficult to move engines that are up to operating temperature, especially alky fired!) The siding was long enough to facilitate an engine, tender and trailing car. That was until one of our members aquired an Allegheny! That said and as you can see there is no standard. Make it as long as you are able.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

This reminds me of a gentleman who was explaining to me how large a shop compressor one should buy. His recommendation was:


Take the largest size compressor you think you will ever need, in ten lifetimes...
Double it...
And then buy the next size larger.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

If you are a cheap skate like me plan for a larger siding but only build what you need today. you can enlarge it later!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

My advice to people building a layout is to make the curves the largest you can fit into the available space and to make passing sidings at least 50% longer than the longest train you think that you will be running. I don't run live steam, but I have been to several layouts that do. My suggestion is to have several short sidings for people to fire up their locomotives. A steaming bay as suggested by others is ideal. 

Another suggestion is to have the rails in the steaming bay mounted on a heat (fire) resistant base. If you use plastic ties, in the steaming bays, you will be replacing them fairly frequently. Every year or so I have to help D.r Rivet replace some ties along his mainline. This is where engines stalled or sat to long in one place while they were being tended to. 


Chuck 


PS I have had to lengthen my passing sidings twice, because I kept adding cars to my trains. If must be something about the sunshine and fresh air that makes the trains grow.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Another thing to keep in mind about steaming bays... they require room on each side so the operator and get to his loco to fuel it, fill it with water, drain the lubricator and refresh it, light the fire, etc. Tracks extending radially from a turntable lend themselves well to this provided they are adequately spaced to begin with. Myself, if I were building a good sized live steam track, I think I'd include a crossover in the middle of the siding so one could pull out from the middle without having to move the entire train in front of him. Don't know how that would work out in actual practice, but I remember several times wishing for just such a feature.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight,
for Mark's track we intend to build "portable switches" which will allow trains from the siding switch over to the main track at any location and in any direction.
Regards


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

It'll be interesting to see how those work out Henner.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

They look like this:



















The switch consists of ramp + connected track. The flyover will have 2 of these switches, forming an "S". We intend to build one "right" and one "left", so we can enter/exit the main line at any place.

Regards


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A shoo fly:


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## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

limited space? why not use a double crossover and double loop? or an oval with a figure 8 in the middle.


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

The idea of siding lengths depends on whether your railroad is steam or diesel. On average, steam engine trains were not as long as today diesel trains. An 80 car train was considered long in the early to mid 1900's. Most cars were 40' lengths and would fit in a 4000' siding. Diesel engines changed all that and 125 cars is the average now with 10,000 to 15,000 foot sidings. So you are dealing with apples vesus oranges because of the time period difference. 
Ron


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