# NT/OT Need Fence advice, Wood or Vinyl, the Good the Bad and the Ugly



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Title says it all - I need Fence advice, Wood or Vinyl, the Good the Bad and the Ugly


I have to replace an existing wood and deteriorated wood fence between myself and my next door neighbors backyards. I can replace it like for like with wood, the Home Despot has 8'W x 6'H redwood fence panels for $59 but also has 8'W x 6'H white vinyl panels for $49 and offers installation which for time sake I would probably do. But I wanted to get some opionions about what expoeriences others have had if they have recently replaced their fences. 


Some things to consider:
1. Dogs, both of us have them, some are more friendly than others but so far no attempts to dig under or chew thru. Its the Chew Thru issue I'm wondering about, especially with the vinyl fence
2. Wind, we can get some very very strong winds in winter after a storm, 60mph strong.
3. Ground, concrete on my side, dirt on the other, fence posts are currently on the other side which doesnt bother me or neighbor but might make post hole digging a little tough under the concrete.
4. Height, will be 6 feet tall, I know some ofs ya dont any fences at all but thats not the neighborhood I lives in. 
5. Time of Installation, whats been faster? as both of us have pooches who cannot be kept in solitary confinment for days while the fence area is open, hence my consideration for pro installation.
6.For the vinyl, UV protection, had any fade or UV deterioration, I dont want to spend a fortune only to find I found out where Aristo got that fabulous plastic in their first generation track ties. 


I am leaning heavy towards the vinyl but I know I could install the wood myself with a little help. So let me know and thanks for any advice. I need to deal with this before years end.





VS





If anyone has any alternates I'd like to hear about them, please no chain link, I like my neighbors, but I dont necessarily want to see them feeding their dog while in their skivys.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi 

I've had both and if you plan to keep either type looking like they do above, it's going to be a lot of work. 

I put the ABS/PVC white plastic fence around the back yard at the old house. 

Looked out standing at first. Then the mold set in. 

Hosing the fence did not get rid of the mold and mildew. 

I could spray the whole fence with Tylex and then hose it off, but that was expensive. 

Pressure washing would clean off the mold but who wants to pressure wash their fence every 8-10 weeks. 

8-10 weeks? Well Green and black don't look good on white. 

As for being strong, in 2004 Hurricane Charlie and Frances went dirrectly over our house as it crossed Florida. 

The corner brackets 12 to each panel, 6 each end with 3 each side all had 6 screws in each bracket, or at least were supposed to. 

Of the fence with all the screws, the fence held up just fine. For one section with less screws, I lost one panel and broke one column. 

This was with 120+ winds gusts from a tornado that uprooted trees and shredded roofs.

As for the wood fence, the panels are put together with staples that pull loose over time and need to be hammered back in or screws used to anchor the slats. 

The fence will get mold at times but if you leave it to weather and turn a gray color, the mold isn't so noticable. 

The wood evetually rots even though it's treated or made of fancy woods. 

As for huricanes, the slats are prone to becoming missles


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

You could do what they do here in Phoenix AZ...... Cinder block fence with or without stucco. Keeps the heat in in the summer time.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd go with wood. Stick build it with fence hardware and screws all around. They end up very strong. The winds we get are 30 MPH sustained with very frequent 50 MPH gusts. They make things shake and vibrate for hours on end. Everything is holding together. Those stapled together fence panels do not look very sturdy. Steel fence posts set in concrete will last for ever. Paint all the steel hardware before assembling.

For finishing the wood, you can go with traditional wood tone oil based stain. Have to re-stain every 2 or 3 years. I've hand great success with a solid color stain from Lowe's. It's called "Olympic Maximum". It looks like paint, they have to mix the color, but it goes on bare wood without a primer. That stuff is bullet proof.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I have the same kind of Santa Ana winds you do...so I've opted for 3" galvanized steel fence posts (pipes) with wood panels between them. I've found that wooden fence posts eventually rot enough that the wind finally gets em. So far, my fences with the galvanized steel post have not failed in 20 years...but my fences are only 5' high. The ones with the wood posts have all failed in the same time. Also a 6' fence would provide even more stress to the posts. 

Another nice thing about the galvanized steel posts is that it is possible to pound them into the ground...no hole drilling or digging down to the bottom....allegedly. Now, pounding them into Socal dirt means you do it in the winter...after weeks of rain. I used this technique...sorta...the last time. I was able to pound the posts down 3' without a problem. Then I dug down around each post...and dumped a bag of concrete mix in. I felt better knowing the post was stabilized a bit...but I'm not sure it's really needed.


DO put caps on the tops of the posts as rain water getting in them allegedly will rust em out from the inside...but we don't get that much rain. 


As for the fencing...I just bolt a 2x4 to each side of the pipe...and then nail horizontal stringers across. The fence boards nail to them. You can put a 1x8 over each steel post to hide the pipe on the back side of the fence if you wish. The front side is covered by the regular fencing material.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

I would go with Vinyl. That's what we use extensively in the gated community where I live (I was on the association board) and we are slowly but surely replacing all of the wood fencing (around patios, for example) with Vinyl. We have Vinyl fences in a number of areas in the community, and they have been virtually maintenance free over the dozen or so years since the community was built. I live in northeastern Ohio, and we experience every extreme of weather here.


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## Russell Rutalj (Dec 7, 2010)

Hi, this is Russ in Sun Valley, Calif. I put a vinyl fence in my back yard: 50 feet long and 7 ft tall. It's white vinyl and is the Enduris brand. I researched it for the best price and quality. Basilio Mario Hinojosa of Trazana,Ca was the best; a father and son operation. The took 1 1/2 days for the job. Installation with materials cost me $2,360. Great fence . No care involved and it looks great. His phone number is 818-344-0488 and he is licensed. Good Luck Russ


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Stone, 3 feet thick. With pillboxes.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic.... I would tend to recommend Vinyl as well. Bit more costlythan wood but it looks good, little or no maintenance and it lasts and lasts. And no painting.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Russ asked me to post some pictures of his fence and his layout. So here they are.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Will a moderator please remove the "NT" from the thread title now that Gary has posted these great pictures of Russ's layout with a fine train pictured prominently in a few of the pictures.


Just kidding







Great looking set up Russ. 


I'm on the fence about the material. (sorry) I would stain/seal the wood every 3 or 4 years if I went that way. But if I knew I could get away with vinyl without the mold problem I might go with it since it would be virtually maintenance free.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Just can't please youse guys anyway!!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually I am surprised to hear vinyl molds. They use vinyl siding on houses and mold is never a problem. Maybe it's a different product.

Here's another option: Chain link with hedge, vines or oleander growing in it. No paint, no stain, no UV problems, no screws coming loose. Feed 4 times a year, weed eat twice. How easy is that?


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## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

Here in Oregon we really challenge fencing. Upper 90s in the late summer and fall followed by 4 months of no sun with 10 to 15 inches of rain. Those other months in between are a toss up. I hate the look of white "plastic" fencing. It is durable and stands up, but it molds and you can see it. Maybe with 400 cans of Krylon plastic paint it could look good or maybe any color but white. It really looks bad quickly. But you can get entire panels prebuilt that you can just slip over posts. It really does not get any easier than that. 

So that leaves us with wood. As Mikey said, metal is the best post. The cross beams or whatever they are called should be good wood as well. The ears, well, they will be replaced with damage and rot in years to come anyway. 

I am prone to building with wood and screws. Sturdy, easy, and no banging around with a hammer. Either that or a pneumatic nailer. A good stain as mentioned will do wonders for the wood and its longevity. 

Did I say that I hated the white fencing?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I suppose the old saying you get what you pay for applies to vinyl fencing as well. If you buy "Walmart" type vinyl fencing products you usually get "Walmart" quality.
My fence is a Bufftech Vinyl fence, made by Certenteed. It's made from 1/8 thick vinyl and has a lifetime warranty against color fading or discoloration, uses 4"x4" posts,
and the lower rails are aluminum encased for extra sturdiness It's been in place for 10 years now and has withstood multiple 3' blizzards, untold 60-70mph nor-easters, 
hurricanes and what ever else has happened here in Delaware in the last ten years









I have never has any mold, nor discoloration or breakages of any type. It looks as good as the day it was installed.

The best part of all is that there has been virtually ZERO maintenance of any kind









See for yourself;


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

BodsRailRoad: A beautiful example of some fine fencing (and a whole lot of it). I hate to think of the maintenance that would be required if all that fencing was made of wood. And a lot of Vinyl fencing these days is molded to look just like wood...so much so that about the only way you can tell the difference is to go up and touch it. You get what you pay for, as is so often the case with anything.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

My personal preference is for anything but vinyl. To me it just looks....no offence....plasticy (plasticey? plasticie?). I can tell one a mile away. The two photos that VS posted with his original question speak volumes to me. Cold, artificial material or a rich, warm, natural product of a renewable resource. 

But then, I don't like artificial wood flooring either. 

But then again, I'm in an area where almost nobody has a fence of any kind. 

But then again, again, the folks next door marked our property line with a stand of Arbor Vitae. They're about thirty years old now and lookin' mighty crummy. 

JackM


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## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

Well said on the renewable part. Had not even thought of that. I am sad that it was not first on my mind.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thought I had already replied to this.....hmm.. 

Anyhow, get the good Trex brand stuff, looks great. Do not buy it from the Big Box store, the "Trex" sold there is NOT the same as the real stuff sold by a proper supplier or lumber yard. 

I got the top of the line Trancend stuff (25 year warranty) from a local supplier for less per board foot than what Lowes wants for their lesser Trex branded product!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

The Trex stuff is very expensive out here. After reading all this I'm leaning towards redwood panels w/ steel posts. Vinyl being prone to holing has made me think twice as I do use power garden tools like weed whackers and like. It would only be a matter of time before something happened and wood is replaceable.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am like the steel posts for some reason









I think steel is a great idea









JJ


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Just think when you build a wood fence, and replace boards your railroad gains a new source for lumber! What didn't look good on the fence, now looks great on the railroad! 
Craig


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Just think when you build a wood fence, and replace boards your railroad gains a new source for lumber! What didn't look good on the fence, now looks great on the railroad! 
Craig


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Well. it's really a very personal choice isn't it.
You have to live with it, so make sure that you are happy with it!
We had our fence replaced last year.
The old one was 43 years old and I was getting a little tired of replacing bits that fell off!
So, I wanted wood with a lattice top, but didn't like the quality of the prefabricated sections, so we found a local fence building outfit to custom build.
I wanted 10 foot sections, and not 8 foot as like the 'wide screen' look.
Also I decided on 6 inch posts to add to the 'look'. 
The cost was actually less than the price quoted for the panels. 
Like I say, you need to keep looking until you find what will keep you happy everytime you look at it.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## williep99 (Sep 19, 2008)

I was at Lowes here in Colorado the other day and they had some new plastic fencing pickets. It had some color variation and wood texture on it and it looked great. I wish I could post the link but Lowes website is partially down. It was the best of both worlds. It was single pickets so it looked nice, and it has the durability of plastic.

The one thing I don't like about the vinyl section fence is that it seems to begin sagging over time. Wood isn't so bad if you stain it every three years or so, but if the neighbor doesn't take care of their side than it still wears.

Bill


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic....here's a photo of the fence post pounder. It's sold at Home Depot...about $30 as I recall. Works GUD!!!!


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you ever seen what a snow plow does to a vinyl fence panel? heh heh heh..... 

Not that Vic would EVER have that issue. 

A coworker did the same as other folks here have done and built his own panels. Got exactly what he wanted that way and saved a ton of money but he's a major DIY guy. 

Chas


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## Brentjames (Mar 19, 2013)

I have no experience about this but I can suggest you a one site to check different kind of vinyl fence design and idea. Check this link http://www.future-outdoors.com


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow its been over a year since I posted this and it still ain't done yet, the old fence is still standing although it looks more like a Salvador Dali painting than ever before, things have been delayed due to financial problems of my neighbor (and my own iffy savings), he once offered to pay 1/2 the fence price, but since he seams to be unable to commit I think sometime this summer I am just going to have to bite the bullet and do it all myself. 

The plan so far is redwood fence, steel posts, and concrete footings. the biggest headache is negotiating what to do with his yard fence from the property line to my neighbors house, if I take the property line fence down that part will definitely fall down, its not been braced and reinforced like the property line fence and is barely up as it is. 

So I need to try one more time to get either a buy in from him or if not the OK to trespass onto his backyard to build the new fence. We'll see. Thanks for all the advice it did help.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Vic,

Both Russ Rutalj and I have used the same contractor for our fences. Russ did vinyl and I did grape stake {our yard is "rustic"). Send me a PM and I can get you the info.


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## Jonnychuffchuff (Dec 24, 2010)

Stan: Randy sez he had mold issues with Vinyl. Watcha think?


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm in Florida so the mold might not be as much an issue in other location. But even if the mold is not a problem dirt will still be a problem as the white color will look dirty where as the wood fence won't show the dirt.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic....one more thing. You can reuse the old concrete footings if you are building your own fence between the posts (i.e. not using pre-manufactured panels). That's what I did for the last fences. If you look at my last photo where I've got the post pounder on one post, you can see the posts are in the old footings. The hole they're in is square from the old 4x4 wood fence post. 

I used a drill with a 18" long wood bit (a 1" drill with a 12" extension) in it and a shop vac and drilled out the old fence post wood from the footing. I just drilled and vacuumed the sawdust out. It takes about 10 minutes per footing. Then I put the 3" galvanized pipe in and pounded it into the dirt through the hole in the footing. 

After the fence posts were in, I mixed grout (which is basically nothing but mortar with an extra shovel of portland cement in it) into the the old concrete footing between the post and the concrete. You can also buy bags of grout at HD. This save all the time involved in removing the old footing...and dealing with the HUGE hole left when you do that...and there's no concrete debris to deal with.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Whatever type of fence you put in, make sure it is on YOUR property. The next person living there may not like it and since it is on their property they could take it down. So get it surveyed and do it right.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, theres no old concrete footing to work with about, the old wood posts were sunk right into the dirt, one reason they are now gone. 

Jerry, thats why I have to get my neighbors right to trespass, whatever fence its going to be both ours, considering he already has a block wall on the other side that is leaning badly and will probably fall over in the next moderate shake, he has already said anything I do will be an massive improvement for his property. but be it so, I plan to only sink the posts in the line of the old posts, the fence facing will be overhanging on my side of the fence line.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been reading this thread with a bit of surprise. 

In states where mold and mildew can form easily, vinyl is easy to clean and will not be damaged by a pressure washer. Wood does not fare as well in these climates, and is more maintenance. 

Several people on this thread live where mold and mildew are not a problem and their fences look like new. 

Several people live where it is a problem, and has to be dealt with. 

I guess the differing climes are still unknown to many people. 

Greg


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