# Custom dry transfers on alki loco



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Some of you may be familiar with the "Decal Pro" custom dry transfer system:
http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro/Vertical/1_MENU/1b_Overview/Overview.html

There was a write up on this system a few years back in Garden Railways mag and I've seen some mention of it here on MLS by people lettering rolling stock. Very nice system, but one of the "features" is you can remove the graphics with denatured alcohol. Not so good for a live steamer....

So the question is, has anyone here tried to use this system for lettering a live steamer, and if so, what did you use for a protective coat? BTW - not only does the loco in question burn denatured alcohol, but that's also what I use to clean the grime off!

Thanks,
Mark


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

In case anyone is interested, here is the answer I got back from "Decal Pro": 

Just about every "clear coat" we've seen or heard about has worked fine. I'd start with plain old "Krylon" from ACE! (Ace is the place!) Just test it before hand by flooding a test image (lying flat) and seeing if there is any toner creeping out from under the image. I'd create a white foil over black toner for this test. If it DOES cause a noticeable black outline (eg. creeping toner from swelling), then all you have to do is put a few light "dusting" coats over the image. Then dry, follow up with a heavier coat. Most all overcoats are impervious to alcohols. Send pics of your best work for $20 worth of free materials of your choosing (and we pay postage too!) It's our bribe to get great pics from users. HA!


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Mark - If you can't solve your problem, you may want to give vinyl transfers a try. They work great for live steamers.


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## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

Mark,Do not use Krylon Clear coat.A few Years back I installed Duston B and O decals on an Aster USRA Mikado.We than covered the Decals with Krylon clear coat.Let it dry for two weeks.When My friend was filling up the tender with alcohol some spilled on the side.It took off the Krylon that dryed two weeks.We had to strip the tender and re do it.I called them in Ohio and the rep.said it takes 6 mt.to fully Dry.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Mark, 
I know that Krylon 'paint' does NOT like alcohol AT ALL.
I would imagine that their clears are the same, but give it a test and see.
I would perhaps use a urethane varnish of some sort. 
Like most things in this hobby, you will still need to test and experiment until you find what works for you.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

What does Accucraft use to coat its decals? I had to scrap them off my 4-4-0.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 01 Dec 2009 09:41 PM 
What does Accucraft use to coat its decals? I had to scrap them off my 4-4-0. 

I'm not sure what they use, but it isn't impervious to alcohol either. I've seen an alcohol-fired GS-4 that was stored on its side in a foam-lined tool box, and got "put away wet". Some of the alcohol leaked out so the tender was lying in a puddle, which eventually caused the decal to wrinkle.


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

well, it looks like this is turning into a research project. The vinyl cut decals would be great except I'm using a custom font, so I would need to purchase a vinyl cutting machine or find someone who will cut them for me. I am also using some very fine lettering (1:32 engine) so I'm not sure if vinyl would work. 

So far I have a list of things that don't work - Krylon, Scale coat, and Accucraft's mystery clear coat. Might have to try some automotive paints.....


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Mark Scrivener on 03 Dec 2009 03:44 PM 
well, it looks like this is turning into a research project. The vinyl cut decals would be great except I'm using a custom font, so I would need to purchase a vinyl cutting machine or find someone who will cut them for me. I am also using some very fine lettering (1:32 engine) so I'm not sure if vinyl would work. 

So far I have a list of things that don't work - Krylon, Scale coat, and Accucraft's mystery clear coat. Might have to try some automotive paints..... 
Mark - If you can send me your font as a .TTF file, I can help you out. I can do lettering down to 3/16" in height. It kind of depends on what the font looks like.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark 
If they are one color why not dry transfers. You can over spray them with a clear coat, I use dull coat. I have a fellow here that charges $20 for the master and about $10 a sheet which is 11 x 17.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Dan, 

Where is here?? Would you mind sharing the contact info?? 

Bob C.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is Vancouver British Columbia, Canada. After saying I ha a guy I have been looking for his contact information. I'll find it but it might take a few days, when I do I'll post it.


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Dan,

These are dry transfers - see http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro...rview.html for how you can create your own dry transfers with a laser printer. The question seems to be, however, what clear coat (gloss, semi gloss, mat, dull, whatever) will withstand denatured alcohol. It appears many of the popular clear coats will not hold up to alcohol. 


Del,

Thanks for the offer. The font is Nickle Plate road (got it from a RR fonts site) and the lettering I'm concerned about is on the sand dome and number boards (1:32 scale Berkshire). There are some pretty small serfs and tails on the NKP font and that is mighty small lettering, but if you think you can handle it I'd be happy to give it a go.

Cheers,
Mark


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Dan, 

All-out Graphics by chance?? They are the name that came up in a Google search of 'Vancouver dry transfers'. 

Bob C.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Mark Scrivener on 03 Dec 2009 06:41 PM 
Dan,

These are dry transfers - see http://www.pulsarprofx.com/decalpro...rview.html for how you can create your own dry transfers with a laser printer. The question seems to be, however, what clear coat (gloss, semi gloss, mat, dull, whatever) will withstand denatured alcohol. It appears many of the popular clear coats will not hold up to alcohol. 


Del,

Thanks for the offer. The font is Nickle Plate road (got it from a RR fonts site) and the lettering I'm concerned about is on the sand dome and number boards (1:32 scale Berkshire). There are some pretty small serfs and tails on the NKP font and that is mighty small lettering, but if you think you can handle it I'd be happy to give it a go.

Cheers,
Mark 


Contact me off-line via e-mail ([email protected]) and I would be glad to give you a quote. Just tell me what you want to do. I already have the Nickle Plate font.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

All i can telll you is Del 's work is fantastic I own some and he's the bomb....... he's the best in vinyl bar none!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## David BaileyK27 (Jan 2, 2008)

For our Dry Transfers we reccomend Water Based Acrylic Varnish and when it is dry any model varnish on top seems OK, any varnish which is solvent based will attack the ink. 
David Bailey www.djbengineering.co.uk


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Mark, I have used Scalecoat I flat and gloss glazes with great success on my conversions of Aster locomotives.After application, Scalecoat I is baked in a kitchen oven at 180 degrees for about 20 minutes, and that provides excellent protection against alkie spills. My C&O Kanawha has been in operation for over two years and the glaze -- and the decals under it -- are holding up fine. 

Just to be sure that the glaze won't attack your dry transfers, I'd test a sample of letters on another piece of painted brass. Then you will be ready to go. 

One final note: Dull Coat will not hold up to heat -- and possibly alkie too -- so, like Krylon, Dull Coat is unsuitable for live steam locos. 

Best of luck, 

Ross Schlabach


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used Scalecoat I flat and gloss glazes Scalecoat I is baked in a kitchen oven at 180 degrees for about 20 minutes I can also recommend Scalecoat 1 - I used it on #21 and have seen no adverse results from heat, steam oil, etc. I baked mine for two hours though.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

The 20 minute bake time I cited comes from the Weaver Models (Scalecoat's owner) website, but I agree with Dwight that the longer bake time certainly can't hurt and may help -- so use 20 minutes at a minimum. Just make sure you don't hit "Broil" or your engine will re-kit itself!! Did that once with a toaster oven and a customer's HO loco 35 years ago -- never again!

Ross Schlabach


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks guys. Baking on Scalecoat I sounds like the easiest solution. 

Cheers, 
Mark


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Bob, I use All-Out Graphics in Vancouver, but they're nowhere near as cheap as what Dan quotes. They're C$25 for the master, and around C$50 for a 9" x 12" sheet. They do good work, but they're not exactly cost-effective for one-offs. Dan, if you can find that contact info, you now have two very interested people. 

As for coating them, I've got an alcohol-fired Roundhouse which I used Testor's Gloss Coat on quite some time back. I can't say that I recall ever spilling alcohol on the side tanks or tender, but it's held up over the dry transfers quite well probably for 13, 14 years now? 

Later, 

K


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Make that three interested in the service


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

It is All Out Graphics. http://www.allout-graphics.com/pages/Natalie.htm 
I don't know about the prices now, it's been about 5 years since I delt with them.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Dan,
I guess that's inflation.
As 'K's' message points out.
It was $20 + $10, but is now $25 + $50 and the sheet is only about half the area.
Oh well, such is life these days.
You find something that is just right, and then when you go back you either find that it is no longer available, or the store has closed down. 
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Inflation or supply and demand. There are only two print shops in the US that still do dry transfers, and they're ridiculously expensive. Perhaps the Canadian gov't is clamping down on the chemicals the way the EPA did in the US (which is what drove most print shops to stop making them), hence the price increases on that side of the border, too? 

All-out is good to work with, though if you're doing custom colors (such as EBT orange), mail them a color swatch to match. Matching Pantone colors over the computer is not advisable. The basic colors (white, black, gold, silver, etc.) are fine. 

Later, 

K


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

K, 

After I had read on one forum or another that the process had been basically outlawed in the states (why I couldn't find Lettraset and Chartpak anymore), that explained why the price was so high All-Out Graphics. When the supply is restrictive, the price will usually be elevated. Do you know by chance which chemical or chemicals were the culprits?? 

Bob C.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Do you know by chance which chemical or chemicals were the culprits? 
No, I don't. I had a friend in Rochester who used to make his own (before the EPA cracked down), but I never learned the process. 

BTW, you can still find Chartpak and Lettraset at good art supply stores. (Not the Michaels or similar chains.) 

Later, 

K


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Guys - see the link at the beginning of this thread - it is a simple process for making your own dry transfers at home. The "secrets" are a special paper and a spray on adhesive. Basic idea is you use a laser printer to print your graphics on this special paper. You then use heat and pressure to temporarily laminate a clear sheet of mylar over the graphics. This sandwich is then soaked in water, causing the top surface of the special paper to dissolve. The result is the paper separates from the mylar, but the laser toner is left on the mylar. You then dry off the mylar, apply a spray adhesive to the exposed toner, and then press it on the surface like a dry transfer. After rubbing it down you peal the mylar away and you are left with the toner "printed" on your target surface. 

Now there are actually a few more steps, esp when it comes to printing color on black surfaces, but the concept is the same - you are lifting the toner off the paper and placing it on your target object. The results are impressive - really does look like it was professionally printed on the object. The transfer is easily removed with alcohol, so a clear overcoat is required to prevent damage. 

I bought my kit a while back, but I think they are about $150 - not bad for making a bunch of custom dry transfers. Biggest problem is you need a laser printer - but most people have access to one at work. Ink Jet will NOT work.


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## David BaileyK27 (Jan 2, 2008)

We still have a custom dry transfer service available, prices £15 for the camera negative and £28 per A4 sheet for a single colour, prices are from your own artwork. 
David Bailey www.djbengineering.co.uk


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