# Installing DG583AR decoder in a Aristo E-8



## willebrand (Jan 3, 2008)

It has been a while since I have been here.


September 2006 started my problems when I used USAtrains locomotives and Zimo decoders. First I blew 7 Zimo decoders. Zimo repaired them all. Thanks for that.


One of the last mesages I wrote here was that I ordered 4 pcs NCE D808 decoders from a dealer in the USA and two more from a dealer in England. These where fore my USAT trains. I still use the Zimo in the Aristo lokomotives


It is a long story, but  finally I was able to install  2 pcs D808 and  4 pcs were not to program.  I send the four pcs D808 back to NCE, but they never arived there. JFK is the last known data from UPS. They are almost four months looking for them  now.


All that time I could run only 2 pcs Dash 9. a Mallet and 2 pcs PA 1 wich is underpowered for my 11 car streamliner from USAtrains. I meshed up a gear again. Than I gave up


 


Las t summer I gave up; set everything aside  and  started with something that did work;  Ho.


Last week I bought 2 pcs E-8 and thought about the 2 pcs DG538AR decoders that are in my posession. I thought about a plug and play situation. I bought these in advance almost one year ago just waiting for the 2 pcs E-8 to come.


 


I installed a decoder. New decoder in a new locomotive wich run two meters on conventional trackpower just to check it out. Openend the cab and plugged the decoder in.


 


No movement!!!!!! After some noice and shutter the traint starts : PFFFFF it runs on CV1 at 3.


Tried the programm section. Shortcut. I know this from ny dash 9. pulling the light swith to off. No succes. Not to program anything. As soon I switch on the lights the train stops. won't move again only after switchsing off the power.  As soon the lights are off the train starts again.


 


I can't readout or program decoder DG583AR


System Intellibox


Trains  USAT and Aristo


Who can give me a clue


 


Jos


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## Dan Love (Jan 3, 2008)

It's easy to check the E-8 for wiring errors. 
I'd do that first. 
Use one of the working Zimo cards in it after checking. 
See if both read and write CV's work. 

What's left then is the DG383R decoders. You should be able to write not read without turning off the lights. 
I don't care for how people work arond it. It would take high high speed llow reactance regulator for the Digitrax microcontroller not appear as a shunt to the controller. 

The way it sounds now good chance there's a short. 

Dan


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## willebrand (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Dan

I installed Zimo decoders and they work well in Aristo engines

Thanks

I still don't know what to do with the decoders

Digitrax advised me to send them for repair. Uhlenbrock did not reply Yet on my questions unless they say that the intellibox digitrax knows.

Regrds 
Jos


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jos, you seem to have bad luck with 3 different brands of decoders.

This is highly unusual.

Maybe there is some root cause in your wiring or layout. It just cannot be that you have so many problems.

By the way are you programming on the main, or the programming track or both?

Are you unable to program on the main? By the way, I forgot what DCC control system you are using, please let us know.

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Love (Jan 3, 2008)

Which side of the gate is broken. I hope the answer comes soon. 

Are you using loconet? 

Dan


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## willebrand (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Dan and Greg

Sorry for the late answers. I was busy with my three E-8 ths

First since I live in Europe I mainly use items that are easely available here. 

As the DCC system I use a Multiprotocoll unit from Uhlenbrock. I bought it some years ago for my H0 trains. This system can work with several digital decoders ( DCC Motorola and Selectrix togheter ). This system let me easely program decoders from diferent brands on a special prepared programming track.

Behinds the output of the central system do I use a DCC amplifier from 10 AMp.

My problems started when I upgraded from a 5 Amp system into a 10 Amp. I use multiple units from Aristo and USAT. Aristo units perform without problems with a Zimo decoder DCC.  As greg mentioned I would use NCE D808 decoders. I ordered last year 6 pcs. 2 pcs work fine and the other four had irregular speeds output. For this reason have I send them back to the US but they never arrived. They never made it to the main. I hooked up just a motor.

Greg I use a seperate programming track. I do not program on the main.

Dan I ain't use loconet

Last week I run a day long my three Aristo E-8 ths with a 11 car USAT streamliners. No problems!!!!!!!!!!

Just the USAT lokomotives give problems with the burned out decoders


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As I mentioned on the other site, something is strange. 

So, the first thing I wanted to address is your inability to program decoders on the programming track. 

You state that you had trouble programming with both the Digitrax and the Intellibox systems. One question is that I have never seen a 10 amp Digitrax system. So can you list the Digitrax control system, I found the Intellibox, so no confusion there, and also what booster are you using? 

Regards, Greg


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## willebrand (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Greg

Sorry for the late reaction, but I was three days on a trainshow here in the netherlands showing off trains./Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/Fck/FCKeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/regular_smile.gif

I use only the Inteelibox, but have two of them. I tested only two digitrax decoders.

My boosters are Lenz LV200 10 Amp DCC boosters supplied with 18Volt alternating current  10Amps transformers.
Jos


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Jos, here we are! 

Lots more questions: 

OK, so I'd like to ask you if you have had any trouble programming on the main? (not using programming track) 
Do you use the intellibox to run trains, or do you have an additional control system? 

I think your problem is in the programming hardware. It's the only common denominator. 

Let's figure this out. I have never had a decoder I could not program, except when I have had one completely quit. 

Regards, Greg


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## willebrand (Jan 3, 2008)

_*Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/24/2008 10:46 PM




OK, so I'd like to ask you if you have had any trouble programming on the main? (not using programming track) *
_ 
Never programmed on the main


*Do you use the intellibox to run trains, or do you have an additional control system? 
*
I use the Intellibox just for the signal. The IB he two possibilitys. 

First : The output direct to the main. This gives you a max of 3 Amp. There is also a possibility for a signal output. 
Second : This is what I use. This is a 3 cable output to a amplifier. Two for the signal and one cable for the transmission of a short from the track to the IB. Ones there is a short on the main the IB wil notice that. 

The amplifier that I use is the LV200 from Lenz

I do not conect the main with the Intellibox directly.

The programming track is connected directly with the IB. Programming is done directly

* I think your problem is in the programming hardware. It's the only common denominator. *

* Let's figure this out. I have never had a decoder I could not program, except when I have had one completely quit. *

Yeah that is my problem. I never had a decoder that I couldn't program either. I use DCC ( ZIMO, Lenz,  ESU ) Motorola and Selectrix. My problem started with the NCE D808 decoders. Imagine: I have 6 pcs and start with programming the first one. The engine performs perfect and the decoders is easely to program. I pick the second one. Just performing irregular speeds. ( just hooked on to a single motor).

I take an third decoder and the second engine is on the track and easely to program. The other three decoders only irregular speeds and no reactions to the inputs from programming. I could read and gave inputs but there was no impovement. 

My conclusion was that something was wrong with 4 decoders.

Regards Jos


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting. 

Just to check, there is only one loco on the programming track at a time, right?

Does the Intellibox do POM (programming on the main)? It's often more reliable, since it uses full track voltage. You cannot read back though.

When you were programming the NCE's and had "irregular speeds", were you able to read back values ok?

Was this problem only  in the E8? Some E8's had very poor track pickup, this could be a cause... try checking the track pickup continuity at each wheel.

Also, there was a loco that tested ok upside down, but not on the rails... it did happen.

Lastly, is there any chance your 808's came from a person who might have sold you used goods? Very strange.

Regards, Greg


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## willebrand (Jan 3, 2008)

_* Just to check, there is only one loco on the programming track at a time, right?

*_Yes

_*Does the Intellibox do POM (programming on the main)? It's often more reliable, since it uses full track voltage. You cannot read back though.*_

It does

_*
When you were programming the NCE's and had "irregular speeds", were you able to read back values ok?*_

Yes I was. I also did a reset. This didn't solve it. So to make sure. I could program teh decoders and could read in the IB display what I had done.

_* Was this problem only  in the E8? Some E8's had very poor track pickup, this could be a cause... try checking the track pickup continuity at each wheel.*_

No these decoders have I used for My USAT PA units. For the E-8 I tried Digitrax decodeersDG538AR type. I checked the track pickup. One faled on one occasion also. I had to bend the contacts on the trucks a bit up.

_* Also, there was a loco that tested ok upside down, but not on the rails... it did happen.*_

I canb imagine that bad contact was the reason . 

_* Lastly, is there any chance your 808's came from a person who might have sold you used goods? Very strange.

*_It is very strange becauce I ordered a batch of four from St Aubins USA and two pcs from a retailer in Great Brittain. The reason I did that was a bit weird, bur these days you never know. Since I ordered from the USA and shipped from there my first thouhgts were that the decoders probably were effected by a electronic survey from the US Customs for safety reasons before flown to Europe. After only one succesfull install form one out of 4, I ordered a second batch from Europe of 2 pcs. Only one was Oké 

Regards, Jos


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Still cannot make sense of what is happening!

Did you try programming on the mainline for the decoders that did not program on the programming track? I think you must have some other load in the loco that caused the programming track to not be able to program.

When you fitted decoders to the PA's, did you bypass all internal wiring and the board with the switches?

When you had trouble in the PA's, did you disconnect everything except track pickup and motor to isolate the problem?

Sorry to hear your D808's are lost, any news?

Regards, Greg


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