# Two shows in LA?



## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe I'm mixed up (probably), but I show two large scale train show on the same weekend in So Cal. There's the Big Train Show, now the all-scale show, in Ontario, and the Southwest Garden Railroad Show at the Fairplex in Pomona, not too many miles away. Is this right? So what is it, a range war? Duelling shows? Maybe MLS should get their own show at the Queen Mary.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep...range war...good term. The BTS went all scale starting last year when the show ownership changed to the Ontario Convention Center. The SWGRS is all large scale. There's a good deal of concern regarding what is going to happen...and how much of the BTS is going to be taken over by the small scalers...and there is a lot of concern regarding which show the manufacturers and dealers will have booths in...and, I'd guess, where the MLS booth will go...and where the steam track will go...and it goes on and on. I've made a vacation out of the BTS for years now...and I see this "range war" impacting that concept. Time will tell.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

On the surface it actually seems to be quite simple: As last year demonstrated, when you allow the smaller scales in they invariably take over! It will only be a couple of years, even without another show on the same weekend, before Large Scale is relegated to a couple of vendors and a few boxes stuffed under a table here and there. David is obviously counting on this attitude among Large Scale vendors and enthusiasts. It's a risky gamble in my opinion but it just might pay off big! I know that many of you guys have great memories of the Big Train Show on the Qeen Mary but _this_ " All Scale Big Train Show" is nothing better than a "World's Greatest Hobby Show!" If I had to make a choice, I would go to the SWGRS. At least _there _I know I would find Large Scale in abundance! If the majority of Large Scalers feel this way as well it will work for the SWGRS. I guess it kind of depends upon whether you guys on the West Coast want to have a Large Scale exclusive show or whether you would prefer to try to hold on to the past which has already disappeared...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree Steve, my choice will be the SWGRS and I will call the vendors I deal with and tell them that... 

Regards, Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to agree with both Steve and Greg here that I will be attending SWGRS at Fairplex. The BTS has not been the same show since leaving the Queen. Maybe it's time to start a NEW tradition. In fact there was another ALL scales show this past weekend at the Anaheim Convention Center.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 05 Jan 2010 09:50 PM 
... I guess it kind of depends upon whether you guys on the West Coast want to have a Large Scale exclusive show or whether you would prefer to try to hold on to the past which has already disappeared... 
I think you said something significant here.


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## jkarns (Jan 5, 2008)

I miss the QM. Tried Ontario a few times, but wasn't the same. On the other hand, the fall SWGRS was a fun show. I will absolutely be at the fairplex for the summer rendition; and I will again be spending my hobby dollars. 
Jesse, formerly of Long Beach


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Do you have a link to these two show? They have made the dieision to do it at the same time? I thought it was still up in the air. I liked the Idea of the FAll show. I liked the Banquet and the clinics of the BTS.


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## Bob Baxter (Jan 3, 2008)

The Door Hollow Shortline will be at the SWGRS. We sweated out the last BTS because we were concerned that there wouldn't be enough room in the hall at the Ontario Convention Center after space is allocated to the sprawling HO layouts. It is a very small venue and they now have to accommodate even more small scale layouts as the word spreads among the clubs. We were excluded from the last Great Train Expo show in Ontario due to lack of space. 

It's a bold move on David's part to go head to head with the BTS. In my view, the King is dead, long live the King!


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

We had a great time at the Ontario Show last year, but that was mainly because of our MLS friends. We seem to spend as much time together outside the show as we did in it.
The most annoying thing for us was, we booked for THE BIG TRAIN SHOW, and ended up with the big train show.........................
In future I shall attend the NGRS (When they are held some where warm)








Rod F.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

The announcement for SWGRS is in the February 2010 issue of Garden Ralways Magazine, at the top of page 76. SEGRS and SWGRS are grouped together in one ad. I guess it is going to be a "turf war". Sorry, but I'm going to attend SWGRS. I'll vote with my wallet and attendance at SWGRS! It will be interesting to see which LARGE SCALE vendors attend BTS in Ontario. 

I can't afford to do BOTH on the same weekend!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Well that settles that decision, where the Door Hollow goes, thats where I'll be. Wonder which venue the Del Oro will choose, they probably have enough sections they could attend both! 

I guess popular opinion is leaning towards having an MLS booth at the SWGRS


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

SWGRS for me.

Tommy







Rio Gracie


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## jkarns (Jan 5, 2008)

The bigger question is, Where will there be a live steam track; inside at SWGRS or outside as it has been at Ontario? 
Jesse


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## H-man (Jan 4, 2008)

I have attended all but 2 of the BTS shows and I liked the QM shows best. This is mostly due to the LS trains and vendors. my money is on the Fairplex show. They have a lot to offert there with the established layout and the Prototype displays at the back of the venue a must see. 

Howard


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## John Corradini (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like it will be the SWGS for me.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Isn't (Wasn't?) USA Trains the big sponsor behind BTS? Are they still involved with it? 

-Brian


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They were represented at the last SWGRS... 

Greg


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

As far as displays, The Door Hollow, the Arizona BTO Module, the Movie mix module, and the Mesa Grande from Texas will be coming. Bob Starr is welcome and I hope he comes. I haven't heard from Del Oro Pacific yet. I need help getting USA Trains and Aristocraft to commit. Let's all invite them to attend. I know vendors have been asking them to attend, But I haven't heard from them directly and I know the buying public has some clout with them. Accucraft and Train-li USA will be at the show. Other vendors for sure will be Eaglewings Ironcraft, Empire Builder, Michael's Custom Woodworking, Just Plain Folk, Colorado Model Structures, Kern Valley, Customer Model Products, St Aubin, and Rainbow Ridge. I have been told indirectly of another 15 vendors who are planning to come. I hate mentioning names if I don't know for sure. 

MLS is always welcome and I would help plan some get-together during the evening if the interest is there. 

This show really belongs to all of you. I do them so a lot of large scale people can get together and have a lot of fun. Period. I hope to make a little money in the long run, sure. So, I am open to any ideas and thoughts on how to make this show work and have a great time. 

Thanks for all of your support and see you all in June. 

David Roberts 
Small Rails Productions 
[email protected] 
913-406-3400


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, Lewis hates me, so I'll email him and tell him I'm going to the all-scale show! 

That will fix that one for you! 

hahahahaha! 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06 Jan 2010 07:29 PM 
Well, Lewis hates me, so I'll email him and tell him I'm going to the all-scale show! 

That will fix that one for you! 

hahahahaha! 

Greg 

Well if you stopped talkin smack he might send you some frebbies ............. Like he does some of the other KOOL AIDERS.........















louie..........


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06 Jan 2010 07:29 PM 
Well, Lewis hates me, so I'll email him and tell him I'm going to the all-scale show! 

That will fix that one for you! 

hahahahaha! 

Greg 



He probably doesn't hate you Just those turdes you smoke


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm going to the BTS show this year. I might go to the SWGRS show also. I liked the one show at Ontario that I attended. It was much easier to get around that the QM. I know at least one vendor who didn't like the QM. My biggest concern is that the BTS is now is now multi scale. My final decision will be to support ehich ever show had the most LS manufacturers and vendors.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By John J on 06 Jan 2010 08:10 PM 


Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06 Jan 2010 07:29 PM 
Well, Lewis hates me, so I'll email him and tell him I'm going to the all-scale show! 

That will fix that one for you! 

hahahahaha! 

Greg 



He probably doesn't hate you Just those turdes you smoke











haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

Why does the heading for this Forum still show the SWGRS on Oct. 31, 2009. Maybe it's time to update that! 
Russ


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

My goofy little Portable Pizza layout is avalable for the MLS booth, why should Bob and Don have all the fun









If I had the right truck I could bring the whole darn thing!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I f I lived in your part of the country I'd go to the SWGRS and for get the other show. Later RJD


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I think what the biggies like USA and Aristo decide will have a major affect on what happens. I'm not sure if the head to head thing is a good idea this year. It might be a year or so premature. I will attend the SWGR show but not sure where I will stay. Kind of depends on where most of the MLS gang decides to land. For me it is as much a social event as a train show. The social aspect of it can't be overlooked as far as MLS members go.


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## skatewake (Feb 18, 2008)

I am going to try out the SWGRS this year. I was kinda disapointed with the Big Train Show last year. 

That is my two cents anyway, 

Charles


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Myself, I will be going to SWGRS. Most people that I know will be doing the same. As much as we want these shows, we need to support the ones that cater just to us. Dave has gone way out of his way to make our hobby better. Knowing what I know about putting on a show like this (let alone the three shows he is doing) he's not doing it for the money, he is doing it for the G-gauge community. I don't desire to go to a mixed show, see a couple of G-gauge items and then leave disapointed. I want to go where I know there is alot to see and do. Plus the fact that all my friends will be there also. So I guess it should be a no brainer. By the way,* *I will be driving 1985 miles and 28.5 Hours to support this show. Thanks, Rex*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rex, are you going to drop by San Diego on your way here and visit your Northern and E8B? 

There is a guest room. 

Cigars. 

Scotch. 

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Where is Rex coming from ? 

PS Any one know of Hotels other than the one at the Fairplex?

That one was rather pricey if you the block of rooms is full


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Greg, *
*What do you mean drop by, I was thinking about moving in for a few days. I'm bringing My whole Passenger Train A-B-B-A and 14 Cars and the Northern*

*J.J. *
*I am coming from my house....... I couldn't pass that one up. Bloomington, IL*
*Thanks Rex*


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Rex is coming out of Ill now if I could just convince him to drop by and pick me up that would be great. As I hate flying. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have 2 guest rooms, bring RJ.... 

RJ, you can meet Rex somewhere can't you? Take a train... ha ha 

It's about 1.5 hours to the show from my house... 

No problemo... 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11 Jan 2010 11:49 AM 
I have 2 guest rooms, bring RJ.... 

RJ, you can meet Rex somewhere can't you? Take a train... ha ha 

It's about 1.5 hours to the show from my house... 

No problemo... 

Greg 

You mean i have to bunk with Rex?







O boy that should go over like a fart in church..........he he he. I can have my hudsons flown in with my 23 cars fully populated heavyweights set? Or maybe a couple of USA bigboys....... ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, ARE THERE ANY GOOD STRIP JOINTS ON THE WEST COAST ?????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Git yer a** out here Nick! I'll find room for the whole crowd if need be. 

You guys are big talkers, ha ha ha! 

Still plenty of room, I think that Rex sleeps with his trains... there's definitely enough there to keep him warm! 

Regards, Greg


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

I went to the Big Train Show, now The All Scale Train Show last year. There was maybe 10 or 12 other scale dealers at it. All of the Large scale dealers that are regulary there were there. I saw no problem with them being there and did enjoy seeing their layouts run. In my past experience there has always been enough room at Onterio for everyone. With all the scales there people get a chance to see the large scale stuff at the Onterio show. As to what happens, i will probably attenf the Onterio show on Saturday and the other one on Sunday. Get the best of both shows.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow it could be party time Nick if we all visit uncle Greg







Later RJD


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

RJ*,*
*Have I got a great deal for you. You drive to my house, ( witch should take you about 10 hours) Then we'll take my Denali, and you can do all the driving. I will let you pay for the fuel and you take care of all the motels and I will pay for all the McDonalds hamburgers! On the way out. LOL
*
*
You know I'm kidding, butt if there was a place we could meet on the way, you know your more than welcome to ride with me. *
*We can talk when I come down to SEGRS !* 

*Rex*


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rpc7271 on 11 Jan 2010 01:03 PM 
I went to the Big Train Show, now The All Scale Train Show last year. There was maybe 10 or 12 other scale dealers at it. All of the Large scale dealers that are regulary there were there. I saw no problem with them being there and did enjoy seeing their layouts run. In my past experience there has always been enough room at Onterio for everyone. With all the scales there people get a chance to see the large scale stuff at the Onterio show. As to what happens, i will probably attenf the Onterio show on Saturday and the other one on Sunday. Get the best of both shows.

For those that can afford to pay to get into both show....most will probably do this or in reverse. The BIG question will be on where the MLS crowd and the vendors hang out...and where Shad will put the MLS booth. It's been a tradition to hang out at the booth/steam track during the day...and the bar of the BTS's hotel in the evening after dinner or during happy hour. Now we got two hotels to deal with...and two show venues...and a unifying plan will be needed....and one will come out as time passes. One always does. 

One factor that hasn't been factored in...is the Fairplex GRR. I don't know what could be planned for an MLS event there...but it sure looks like a good place to start.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 11 Jan 2010 09:11 PM 
Posted By rpc7271 on 11 Jan 2010 01:03 PM 
I went to the Big Train Show, now The All Scale Train Show last year. There was maybe 10 or 12 other scale dealers at it. All of the Large scale dealers that are regulary there were there. I saw no problem with them being there and did enjoy seeing their layouts run. In my past experience there has always been enough room at Onterio for everyone. With all the scales there people get a chance to see the large scale stuff at the Onterio show. As to what happens, i will probably attenf the Onterio show on Saturday and the other one on Sunday. Get the best of both shows.

For those that can afford to pay to get into both show....most will probably do this or in reverse. The BIG question will be on where the MLS crowd and the vendors hang out...and where Shad will put the MLS booth. It's been a tradition to hang out at the booth/steam track during the day...and the bar of the BTS's hotel in the evening after dinner or during happy hour. Now we got two hotels to deal with...and two show venues...and a unifying plan will be needed....and one will come out as time passes. One always does. 

One factor that hasn't been factored in...is the Fairplex GRR. I don't know what could be planned for an MLS event there...but it sure looks like a good place to start.



The only place to be is QUOTE............and the bar of the BTS's hotel in the evening after dinner or during happy hour


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh...I hear ya....a bar. Dah. The issue is which bar...the one at the SWGRS Marriott....or the BTS Marriott.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 11 Jan 2010 12:05 PM 
ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, ARE THERE ANY GOOD STRIP JOINTS ON THE WEST COAST ?????



Sure there are! I heard one of the LSC boys works at one. Should be right up yur alley!

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/Gf9zWAcH8FOEOcmz

yur bud,
Brian


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I wonder if there is much differance in booth fees between the two shows. if the Fairplex is cheaper to go to I can see this being a big issue next year 2011.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Look out Greg you maybe having lots of company. I think Rex and I can work a deal here if I get him to pay for motels. He had it wrong as I usually buy the Mc Dees food.







. On the serious side we will be making arrangements to attend. BTW tell Penny the bitch lights are on the way. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 12 Jan 2010 12:42 AM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 11 Jan 2010 12:05 PM 
ON A BRIGHTER NOTE, ARE THERE ANY GOOD STRIP JOINTS ON THE WEST COAST ?????



Sure there are! I heard one of the LSC boys works at one. Should be right up yur alley!

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/Gf9zWAcH8FOEOcmz

yur bud,
Brian










Its very interesting that YOU found that video Brian, I do wonder about you some times


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

I talked with Bob Tooey today, He is the guy in charge of the Fairplex Garden RR. They would love to have a MLS gathering during the day or evening at the railroad in conjunction with SWGRS. I understand a bar could even be arranged for some who are interested. This offer goes out to other groups also. 

This LARGE SCALE SHOW is being done so we can all have fun doing what we enjoy. 

Keep thinking of ideas and I will keep trying to make them work. 

David Roberts


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll alert Mikey! 

Wonder if we can bring trains to run on the Fairplex? Be pretty cool to see Rex's passenger train there! (I know that would probably be a stretch) 

Greg


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Greg, *
*That would be cool with me, I am bringing the whole thing A-B-B-A and my 15 cars. My Northern is coming and if I get it done, another surprise engine that will be a big hit. No hints until its almost done, incase I don't get it finished. Then you'll want one. * *Thanks Rex*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I want one already, just make it work on 10' diameter! 

Tell me what to order and I'll have them shipped to your house! 

If the Fairplex would let us run trains, could add my B unit for A-B-B-B-A .... now that would be a one of a kind shot! 

Greg


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm sure we can arrange for individual's trains to run on the Fairplex railroad. 
Plans are being made to make this show a large scale event. Not just a show. 

David


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I will bring my custom B unit then just in case! That would be one heck of a picture... I could bring some streamliners too, only have 8... but with Rex's... wow... 

Rex, what kind of power? Mine have QSI, can be set up for track DC, track DCC, Gwire, I have 2 Gwire receivers on loan and a Gardenwire throttle? What's in your units? 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Rex is running them on Battery. Guess you could convert for a day or so







. Wonder if Rex will bring the 2-10-2 he just made. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If he brings it, it ain't leaving California! 

ha ha ha! 

Greg


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

http://120pointme.blogspot.com/

Well...at least someone is tracking who is going to be at the BTS and the SWGRS. The current SWGRS web site has "who" was there the last time....not WHO will be there in June. There are a LOT of dealers who are still in a quandary.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike 

The blog on the QneTwentypointme site makes for some interesting reading. Because my interest and focus in the hobby is 1/20.3 narrow gauge AND almost ALL of the 1/20.3 vendors are participating at the BTS at Ontario, I guess that will be the show I will be attending. It will take a couple of years for this mess to work itself out.


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

Accucraft has committed to SWGRS , So has Custom Model Products. I am also working on other 1/20.3 vendors to attend. 
A problem I am having is that several vendors paid last year for their booths at BTS. According to the rules, these vendors were entitled to a full refund if they choose to cancel. I have heard that BTS is not giving them a full refund. 

I've been to a lot of all scale shows all over the country. There is a very small percentage of large scale vendors compared to the other scales at these shows Even so, They can draw up to and over 20,000 people for the show. They don't need large scale vendors to make them successful. Granted BTS was a large scale show and had many large scale dealers. I think as time goes by, BTS will fall into the same pattern as the other all scale shows. Therefore, I believe they could be just as successful monetarily without the large scale vendors. 

I have also talked with many large scale vendors who have done all scale shows and find their sales suffer at all scale shows. they would much rather do a large scale show where their clients and new prospective clients will attend. 

I suppose that in any hobby, an individual needs to have the passion and love for that hobby. I believe it is the same for a promoter of that hobby. In order to succeed, they need to have the passion for what they are promoting. I'm sure Brian Curry has that passion and that is why he put together one of the best shows in the world. It was a great tradition and pulled in the people and the vendors. However, Brian is not involved in the BTS anymore and the center owns the show. 

I want to build that tradition for a large scale show again and I need the support of the large scale community to do it. In my humble opinion I am getting it from all of you and a appreciate it. Keep up the good work. 

I have read that I am in a war with BTS or that this is some type of pissing contest. I had no intention of doing any of that and I don't think I have. I believe I am filling a void for the large scale community that the BTS chose to create. From a monetary point of view, I don't think I would disagree with their decision. 
As I said before, they can pull in a lot more people, have a much bigger vendor base to draw in the booths, and make a lot of money. I also believe that large scale could have a show the same weekend and neither show would suffer. People interested in multiple scales could go to both shows. 
Why the same weekend as BTS? Because a large scale show brings vendors together from all over the country to one location for a show. The same is true for the people attending. This means I have to keep in mind all of the other events around the country that they need to attend. When considering their expense, time required to travel and doing the show, and those other events that conflict, there are only a few weeks that work. 
Large scale vendors and hobbiests already plan to be in sunny southern California at that time and need the best situation available to them to sell and promote their product to the people that will purchase them. 

I hope southern California wants and will support a large scale show. From the first part of December, 2009 through February, 2010, southern California has had 3 Great Train Expos and 1 World's Greatest Hobbies. All scale shows will always be there. It's the large scale show that has the potential of dying out. 

I thank you again for your on going support and help in making SWGRS just a lot of fun for everyone. That is the primary goal for the show. 

David Roberts 
913-406-3400


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

David, 

I understand your point about wanting to have support from So Cal folks and others from around the country for an ALL large scale show. With admission to BOTH shows AND parking for both shows, I'm figuring I will be spending at least $40 before I ever get inside to see vendors to make a purchase. Then there is food and gas. But like I said in my previous post, I'm a narrow gauge fanatic and most of those vendors will be at the BTS. In today's lousy economy, folks are watching their funds closely-especially hobby funding! 

I do prefer the Fairplex venue over Ontario Convention Center. It is better suited to our hobby with the large exhibit of full-size railroad equipment and the Fairplex outdoor railroad just outside the hall. In my opinion, scheduling these two shows on the SAME dates will not help either show. Just my .02.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have to agree with Gary This was not one of their better Ideas. How ever if business continues like the last two months I will attend both shows. I sure do like atmosphere of the Fairplex layout. The welcome feeling you get from the members of the Fairplex layout. 

If they were to allow out siders to run trains on the Fairplex layout can one run Battery Power on that layout?


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, absolutely! Battery powered trains can run on anything up to and including the ground (not _well_ but they _can _do it!) Powered track shouldn't be any problem as long as the power pick-ups are isolated.


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## rgs41 (May 14, 2008)

I also agree with Gary. I have attended both shows and I like both of them. Yes the BTS was better before it went all scale, but this year it will still have some venders that I will want to go see. So will the SWGRS, so I will have to try and go to both shows. I do wish they could have had the shows on different weekends. 
How ever the biggest problem I face now is wich show to put my model of RGS 41 in?


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't have a horse in this race so to speak due to the distance involved but I have thought about it and I am not surprised at all that the BTS operators won't honor their verbal agreement to refund money to vendors that pull out. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they would'nt fight tooth and nail to keep the money even if there was a written agreement! It may be about the hobby for David but it's buisness (read $$$) for the BTS operators! David threw down the gauntlet by scheduling the SWGRS on the same dates! It's going to get ugly. The BTS operators will see this as an attack on their show and it's profitability. Personally, I would go to the SWGRS but if both are close enough together to attend, I would try and attend both! _Next_ year will be the big test!


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

I found out I was wrong on my calculations on what was 170 days out. I thought it was in January and it was really in the middle of December. 
I agree that BTS is doing this for the money. but, I sent out a email to the vendors after the 170 days and that was my fault. I will make up for that mistake by giving the non-refundable deposit paid to BTS to be credited to my show to the vendors who will be losing money. 
It is about the trains and making money for the vendors. I'll wait for my turn when SWGRS is a success. 

It was my mistake. Sorry for any misunderstanding. 

David


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh my! You've definitely raised the ante! Now it's up to the vendors to "raise" or "call"! (This is getting interesting!) By the way, David, you had intimated last year that you _might _have to turn the HAGRS show into an "all scales" show. Considering everything that is happening with SWGRS, have you made a final decision?


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll probably only have time for one show and I suspect it's going to be the SWGRS. Fairplex is a great place for a show. 
Chris


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

HAGRS will always be a large scale show. I may do an all scale show sometime, but it will be a seperate show in a different venue, on a different date. 

My passion is large scale and that is what I want to do most and foremost. 

David


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

David,
I usually look at Airline reservations about the end of February and make hotel reservations at the same time. Thats about another five or six weeks. Have you got any deals with a hotel? I'm leaning on staying close to the Fairplex but would like to stay where other MLS people will be staying. Like I have said before,this is also a social event.


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

Hi Paul, 

I'm making arrangements with the Sheraton at the Fairplex for a special room rate now. It should be done in just a few days. In regards to the MLS social events during the show. All I can say right now is it will be a WOW event. The Fairplex will be a wonderful host for everyone coming in for the show. A lot of things are being planned. 

David


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi, David. Do you know if the Sheraton (or any of the other nearby hotels) has free pick up at the Ontario Airport? I always stayed at the Marriott for the BTS and they would pickup at the airport. Very convenient.


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

The Sheraton will pick you up at the Ontario Airport. They don't have a continual shuttle but, If make prior arrangements with them, they will come to pick you up and take you back when you leave.

David


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Thank you David.


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Dave,*
* Do you think the Sheraton would pick me up at my house and bring me back ? LOL * * Rex*


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

I'm sure they would for a "nominal fee" They just asked how high is your credit card limit? LOL 

David


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Santafe, they might also want to know what sort of "refreshments" would be provided when they arrived to pick you up.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

If the shows are on the same weekend, I'll probably attend both as they are both in driving range for me. 

- gws


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

I just talked to the Sheridan at the Fairplex. They are quoting a rate of 79.00 / night. Since I have no idea of how many rooms will be needed, We are working with a small room block that will grow as needed. However, There are other events happening around the area and I don't know how long rooms will be available.. 

I'll keep you posted. 

David


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## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

It is my understanding that Del Oro Pacific will be at the Fairplex. So that is what I'm preparing my trains for. I must say that the SWGRS treated me very well last year and I'm looking forward to going back. It is regrettable that the BTS has lost Brian Curry as he was the force that made that show. I do want to thank him for many enjoyable shows (even though I hated the rusty boat. It was not wheelchair friendly). 

I would like to make the suggestion that they permit people to bring their trains and run on the Fairplex RR. I know how much it meant to me as I had been a little kid way back in 1950, fascinated with it and 50+ years later getting to actually run on it. That was a really big day. I'm certain there are others that would love the opportunity. 

John


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm with you on that suggestion John. I was a little kid back in 1950 also and I always looked forward to seeing that railroad. To be able to run my trains on it, would be great!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

There is NO question that being able to run trains on the Fairplex railroad would be the deciding factor for me! It would take a show and turn it into an _event!!_


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

Just got an email from Bob Tooey of the Fairplex Garden Railroad. They're watching this thread and want to do what they can to make the event something special for MLSers. Here's what Bob wrote; 
" 1. The Fairplex Garden RR Volunteers are looking forward to hosting MLS and have them enjoy the Fairplex RR including running their personal trains and having a social/night run activity in the evening after the show closes. 
2. Let them know we operate on track power DC. 
3. Yes, we wouldn't have any problem with those with battery powered trains. 
4. We are looking forward to having Rex's train and the extra B unit would be great. 

The price for the Sheraton Hotel will be hard to beat since parking at the hotel is free and the rooms are suites. There are other hotels and motels in the area. David will have a list out before the show...but they should make reservations at the Sheraton as soon as they are made available." 

They're working out specifics now, but it sure sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun! 
Chris


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the info Chris. Battery is OK? I guess I'll actually have to learn how to run my #346. I don't have any track yet! A "night run" would be very cool.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

We've been approached by BTS to do an open house bus tour again this year. This would most likely occur on Friday, but may be Thursday.

_If there is interest,_ we could open the T&LBRR to MLS membes/guests on Saturday and/or Sunday assuming we don't violate any BTS paperwork. We could do either a regular open house (our trains running in automation), or could have open running if people want to bring their trains. We run regular track power with a minimum of 8' diameter and can accomodate up to and including heavyweights. Batteries and live steam are also accomodated. Just watch those side overhangs on the wide 20.3:1 stuff.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

This board needs a correction. As I post this it says Ontario Canada for the BTS.
http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine...p?p=653679


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hah! There may be hundreds of enthusiasts wandering Ontario Canada for the train show! 

I heard that Canadians are very polite though! 

Regards, Greg


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

Oops! There goes our secret plot to increase tourism up here in June !! 

Gary

(in Ontario....Canada







)


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By GaryY on 23 Jan 2010 08:08 PM 
Oops! There goes our secret plot to increase tourism up here in June !! 

Gary

(in Ontario....Canada







)


And ours to keep non-Californians from moving here.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

And ours to keep non-Californians from moving here.Many Californians are already moving OUT. In a few years, I'll be one of them.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 23 Jan 2010 08:45 PM 
And ours to keep non-Californians from moving here. 

Many Californians are already moving OUT. In a few years, I'll be one of them. 


Oh! NO! Where would you go?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't worry JJ - top of the current list is Vegas.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 24 Jan 2010 09:34 AM 
Don't worry JJ - top of the current list is Vegas. 



I lived there for ~13 years before it became _LA East_ (we left in '73) Actually the traffic in Vegas (my sister lives in Henderson) is now worse than what we encounter in OC and the air quality is even worse than OC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Years ago, when I worked for Hewlett Packard, I would be in Colorado quite often. They hated Californians, because they raised all the home prices, by paying too much, etc. 

I finally told a group of them in a bar: "I got a deal for you, I will guarantee that no more Californians will come to Colorado. All you have to do is keep all the idiots from other states moving to California." 

Funny, no takers. We get an influx of people we don't like too! 

Regards, Greg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Judging by California's legislature, it's too late because all the idiots have already moved to California!!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Judging by California's legislature, it's too late because all the idiots have already moved to California!!You get the prize! That's one of the main reasons why I'm leaving. Besides, no state income tax in NV and other taxes are far lower. Good dark skies an hour away. Once I'm retired, traffic and the like is of little concern.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 24 Jan 2010 02:23 PM 
Judging by California's legislature, it's too late because all the idiots have already moved to California!! 

Unfortunatly they also tend to vote for the biggest idiots for governer.









Sad to say, California _IS_ a beautiful state but oh man, a cage full of chimps could run it better


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

AH yes... a government, of the people, for the people and by the people... what does that say about it????


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

It is now a goverment of the people by a few for a few.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I think this sign should be posted outside the Capital entrances:











but, the collective chimpanzitorium in Sacramento aside...









I am looking forward to the opportunity to run on the famed Fairplex. I'm wondering if I can have my ex-Thomas british rail consist all ready to go by the time the show is on. While both engines are good to go, I still have a few more cars to bash.


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

The signs at the Oregon border used to read * "Welcome to Oregon, Enjoy your visit" *thanks to Governor Vic Atiyah. As I live just south of Vancouver, Washington, It is fun reading about people trying to make reservations for the Winter Olympics. Just a little commute to the event!


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Well....the hotel lean is beginning...towards staying in suites in the Fairplex Sheraton for $79...with free parking...versus doing another year at the Ontario Marriott. The word is getting out that the big four manufacturers are going to the BTS and not the SWGRS...but the offer that the Fairplex GRR folks are making to "host" an MLS get-together/train run/BBQ/whatever is too good to not accept. Chris Walas has been asked to coordinate it. So...given all that...the "evening MLS chat folks" decided that it's the year for Change. So, JJ, ChilliCharlie, Greg, Greg's "Entourage", Chris, and I (so far) have decided to "Change" to the Fairplex Sheraton.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, free parking makes a difference... it was quite expensive at the Marriot... and considering that it's all open dirt around the hotel, why so expensive? 

So I guess I need to get a suite... do you have the contact infor, or the "secret handshake" for it? 

Thanks, Greg


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

I haven't gotten the official notice from Fairplex as to exactly what the specifics of the GRR run, etc. will be, but I should have that info soon and I'll start a new thread to use for coordinating things. Looking forward to it... and the free parking! 
Chris


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Jan 2010 12:07 PM 
Yep, free parking makes a difference... it was quite expensive at the Marriot... and considering that it's all open dirt around the hotel, why so expensive? 

So I guess I need to get a suite... do you have the contact infor, or the "secret handshake" for it? 

Thanks, Greg 
It's an all suite hotel..... It's the Sheraton Fairplex....just go to Sheraton.com and go to the Fairplex location...then you get the phone numbers.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg...I just want to know...are you providing your "Entourage" the BIG black sunglasses to wear while they ride around with you in your convertible at the SWGRS....or do they have to bring their own?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hah! I'm bringing the big black sedan, not the 2 seater! 

1. Stealth is better! 
2. More room for goodies purchased... 
3. Will hold more drunken, er. "happy" MLS members if they need to be shuttled back and forth. 

Yes, all people will need to dress like Jake and Ellwood in the "Blues Brothers" 










Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ya it's kind of hard to transposrt a lot of folks that shall be arriving at the Elmassian house.







. Later RJD


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Greg, *
* I was thinking maybe a Limo would be nice. We could get RJ to drive, we could get him a bow tie and one of those cute little Chauffeur caps. Rex*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Your dreams are as big as those E8's Rex! 

I will say RJ is one "driving machine", he came out to the Phoenix show, and then on to California, basically coast to coast, and made pretty good time.. If he drives you might want to trade a cap for a racing helmet! 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Hay thats right up my alley one mean driving machine. If the pay is right your on.







Later RJD


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

Here is the link for hotel rooms at the Sheraton 

http://www.starwoodmeeting.com/StarGroupsWeb/res?id=1001270010&key=75196 

See you all there. 

David


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