# Bachmann 2-8-0 Connie and Bachmann Shay



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I am considering selling these two engines.

The Connie and Shay are several years old but they both run very well.

They have been converted to RCS and battery by none other than TOC and they both have Phoenix Sound. 

I would like some suggestions on what you think they would be worth? I am not trying to get rich but I would like to advertise a fair price.

I also have quite a few AMS Gondolas and a couple of AMS Boxcars which I think I will ask 60 dollars each.

Give me some ideas.

Thanks,

John


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

You say both are "several years old" so first question is. Have the gears been replaced? That makes a big difference, if they have not, it is inevitable that will probably be one of the first things a new owner will have to do. (Remember the split gear issue with older B'mans) 

Also, we would need more info: 
Which RCS system was installed? 
Which Phoenix sound system is in the locos, (ie 2k2, Big Sound 97, etc...)? 

As a suggestion, look at what Connies and Shays (I'm assuming since its an older one that is is the two-truck 38t variant), are going for on ebay. Remember not what the seller is asking, but what they are actually selling for. If memory serves, Connies are going for around $200-$300. But, you do have some extras on yours and that will account for higher price. I did see a Shay for sell on ebay that was older, weathered and with phoenix sound (no batt/RC) and the seller was asking for around $700. That was way too high in my opinion. Hope that helps.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

The only problem I see is the difference between "Fair Price" and "Selling Price". I see a lot on ebay recently listed at what appear to be good prices but they do not sell. I bought my last 2-truck Shay on ebay for $235.00 NIB, Buy-it-Now, no sound/RC. 

I think if your AMS cars are like new in box you will do well on the gondolas at $60.00. I think you are shorting yourself a little on the box cars at $60.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

This is the problem a lot of us are facing! We have too much and/or are cash strapped or even possibly are getting "burned out" and wanting to sell some stuff _ BUT_ the economy is bad and the hobby is in decline at the moment. Ebay is loaded with offerings of similar items that are not selling for _anything _ like what we originally paid for them! I was considering divesting myself of ¾ of all of my trains and rolling stock leaving only two or three engines and two full trains and that's it but where and how would I sell them? Am I willing to let go with RCS and Sierra Sound equipped engines for only a couple hundred dollars when the electronic equipment alone is worth that? Do I want to deal with the hassles that ebay entails? I'm seriously thinking about contacting one of those auction houses to sell my collection or perhaps just take it all to an ebay store and let them do it for me (of course, they'll probably take half of anything made...) Any way you look at it, it's not pretty!


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Ebay is a pretty good indicator what items are worth at any point in time - anything is only worth what people are willing to pay for it, that applies to Large Scale as well. 
If you watch the selling prices on ebay you can get a pretty good handle on the maximum and minimum price of a particular item and the price trends making sure you eliminate any aberrations, ie two people both desperately wanting an item and placing ridiculously high bids to make sure they get it, but of course not expecting to have to pay any where near that maximum bid. 
I have seen that a few times when you look t the bidding history. 

As to Steve's comments about the current selling prices, I find that it depends totally on the particular item and how common (and also how popular) it is. 
For the common items, the prices have gone down quite a bit - probably because the available market is shrinking and with people getting out of the hobby or passing away with none of the heirs interested, there is an oversupply of many common items. 
On the other hand - I have been looking for a couple of 2-axle LGB passenger cars, fairly recent production, 2005, nothing really exotic, and the ebay asking price is well over $500.- 
Brand new, these cars sold for around $150.-


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Steve Stockham and others: 

No matter what non essential items we buy such as model trains, musical instruments and other "collectables" the best price available is: 

used sell for half of new and the dealers, whether that be a store or an ebay dealer, takes half yielding an absolute best return price of one quarter of what we originally paid as in we basically give it away. 100 becomes 50 which becomes 25. A few rare in demand trains may be the exception. 

Before the stock market crashed, due to the MBS fraud, a Delton CP Huntington sold for 2,250.00 on ebay. In the past year another Delton CP Huntington in perfect condition sold for 1,000.00 ! Simiilar low 1,000.00 prices for other brass Delton locos. A brass Delton Mason Bogie was listed on ebay for 2,250.00. No offers. Possibly the Accucraft model killed the market for the Delton Mason Bogie. 

For your wives, the Royal Dolton Englsih porcelin dolls formerly worth in the 350.00 to 500.00 range now sell in the under 100.00 range and then take off 50% for the ebay dealer means give the doll to a neice or grand daugher as these dolls have lost their value. 

Stamp collections values? A fraction of what they once were. 

Funny how when we want any of these items they are worth big dollars but when we want to sell them, forget it! 

Look at the present situation with Aristo Craft dumping their product at Train World. I have never seen such a clearance of Aristo Craft product before. 1/24 product demand? Forget it! My guess is we may never see Aristo Craft produce their latest upgraded C-16 loco again. Amazing considering that the Delton C-16 plastic locos retailed for around 350.00 way back in the 80's or 90's . Now Lewis had trouble selling his upgraded loco with a free caboose for 350.00 which is less than half of the 80's and 90's inflation adjusted dollars. 

Their is no "fair" selling price for the original purchaser. Besides, we all buy this stuff for as low a price as possible from the mail order dealers. Why should we expect a reasonable or fair price for our stuff when we place it on the secondary market? 

The only solution is to give the trains away to a young lad who is interested in trains and whose parents can never afford to buy the trains for their son providing at least some happiness to the former owner that they have made someone happy as opposed to the frustration of being ripped off by the required commissions to sell the items yielding 1/4 best possible return of their original purchase. 

The thing that bugs me is dealers still try to persuade us that these trains are collectable! 

OK, so now for the big question: 

What caused the end to the glory days of large scale? 

Is it the cost of track, the frustration with poor quality drives of locomotives, multiple scales of train models? 

The poor quality of drives from, you know the manufacturer, means no future purchases from me. 

I understand now why 1/24 scale dwindled as the narrow wheel guage look isn't as pronounced as 1:22.5 and best with 1:20.3 . But 1/24 scale still rules for me as I like the overall size of the models. 

I think the future salvation of large scale is the introduction of more indoor layouts with outdoor layouts continuing. We all don't live in the warm climates and as we age running an indoor layout would be far less physically demanding. 

This is why I thought 1:24 scale, with the appropriate narrowed trackage would have been the way to go way back when in the 80's which still permitted outdoor use but yet permitted small enough radius curves for an indoor layout. But 1:20.3 is the new standard which basically limits large scale to the great outdoors and this is why I believe 1:20.3 has harmed large scale sales. 

Steve, an auction house is your worst option. It surprises me that you want to reduce your collection. Place shelves on the walls of your house and use the surplus trains as wall decoration. Better than receiving peanuts for them. 

The bottom line is we have all learned that none of these trains are a financial investment. Just an investment in fun. 

Besides, we all have learned that when we moved up from the smaller scales. 


Norman


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

On the subject of thinning out the herd. I would also like to get rid of some trains, but when you do sell something, people want it for virtually nothing. And on Ebay it is the same thing unless it is a piece that people are looking for. If you follow trains on Ebay you will find that timming is everything....I have seen stuff go for a large sum, then another time the same item goes for a fraction of what it went for before.

And if you think of what you paid for something brand new, and what you get for it when you sell it, even if you never ran it and it is new shape...most times it seems better to let it rot on a shelf then to give it away! My shelves are overflowing!
I always ask for a disscount when buying from a dealer..yes I know they are trying to make a living, but also I know that I am too and trying to stretch my $$ as far as I can.

I always make it a point to purchase from a dealer that has better pricing then anyone else....

I was really sad to see Ridge Road Station go out of business, because they had the best pricing bar none! When I got into the hobby I spent the bulk of my early money with them because of the better pricing then anyone else, and they recieved thousands, because of the better pricing! Everyone else was unreasonable with what they were asking. Ebay was also a money drain early on and unfortunately still is.







The only bad thing about Ridge Road Station was that they were out of a lot of items you wanted or back ordered, forcing a guy to look esewhere, with a dealer that charged more for that same item!









So now since I have what I need, I spend very little at the dealers and more on Ebay as pricing for most stuff I am looking for is better then dealers, in most cases or either out of production.

Watching prices on Ebay has also taught me not to buy anything from the stores selling trains on Ebay as their always asking close to double what you can get it for form a dealer that does not sell on Ebay. 

Best advice is to watch Ebay to see what an item that would go for from a private seller, in the condition it is in, (new, or used). 

MOST importantly timming....timming....timming! Christmas is maybe a better time to list something or early spring as both times people are either buying gifts or getting ready for the new season of train running....

Buying on Ebay advice is subjective at best..it always depends on who is looking for what at any given time, if they catch it when it is listed, and how bad they want it. If I want something bad enough I pay for it. But again they are usally out of production items.

And really does brass track have to be that high? Sometimes greed kills hobbies! It sure did the comic book hobby! I know because before trains I was into comic books very heavy! After the fall I have not purchased a 1 in over 10 years!

The above statements are the reason why you cannot get a good return on selling your items, everyone wants something for the cheapiest they can get it! 

Bubba


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

For pricing info, I just bought 1 new Accucraft refer and 2 new tank cars for $65 each. $60 each if I would have bought the whole case. (sadly I wasn't that rich this month... 

Terry


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

What caused the end to the glory days of large scale? 

I dont buy the premise that the glory days are past. 
I see nothing to support that theory.. 
sure, the economy is worse than it was in the 90's..but new products keep coming out anyway. 
I have been watching the ebay prices for used USA Trains SD40-2's for a few years now..cant find one under $200.. 
I can buy one new for $300..used or new prices havent changed in years.. 

If there was really this glut of product, high supply and low demand, prices should be falling..but that isnt the case.. 
if the hobby was really in decline, wouldn't prices for everything be lower, not higher? 
I am seeing lots of higher prices, compared to 5-10 years ago..and many things staying the same.. 
Bachmann Annie prices have been in the $150 range for 10 years..no change. 
Most of the "older" diesels have stayed the same price for 10 years.. 
I can buy a USA trains Alco PA for the exact same price today that I paid 8 years ago.. 
And new products being released are only going UP in price, compared to new releases 5-10 years ago.. 
So where is this big decline in the hobby? I think its a myth.. 
maybe a *slight* decline right now, because of current economy, but thats to be expected.. 
but when (or if) the economy improves, people will be buying trains again, same as they have been for 100 years.. 

I think people always think "right NOW is the worst things have EVER been"..its just human nature.. 
I graduated from college in 1992..at the beginning of one of the strongest decade-long economies ever..but still, I remember constantly hearing, just before I graduated: 
"terrible economy for new college graduates! doom! gloom! no jobs! its just the worst ever!"..etc etc etc. 
they say that EVERY year.. 

How can new products coming out all the time, and prices for everything remaining high, equal a big decline in the hobby? 
or "the glory days have past"..doesn't make sense to me.. 

Scot


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Just another take on pricing large scale trains for sale....

I my case, I purchase my trains for my pleasure only, not looking to invest in these things like investing in gold or silver. When you buy these trains, that's what your doing.....buying for your pleasure as a hobby. This holds true for other hobbies as well. My son and I were involved in restoring an old "muscle car". I probably invested around $40K in this"money pit" before it was finished. When I finally sold it last year, I didn't even come close to getting my money back! But my son and I had a great time together completing the project. I don't regret it one bit.









ALL hobbies should have the same philosophy. When you put your money out to go see a great movie, you are investing your time and money for that little bit of pleasure. Do you expect to get your money back after the movie is over and you leave the theatre? Probably not.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Great example Gary. I was going to say when you buy a new car, do you expect to get what you paid for it when you sell it? No, and it is the same with trains. I buy for my enjoyment only, not what I can turn around and sell it for. That sounds too much like a job, I already got one of those. 

As far as other comments about price, I stand by what I suggested about ebay. It may not be what you like for a price, but it is the price none the less. I know that it is far more valuable to you and in that case maybe you should hang on to the thing. But market is market, try to list an item for what you think it is worth. If it is too high, then you wont get any bids. 

As far as an auction house Steve. I really dont think you'd be happy. It's better to do ebay. First the auction house charges a minimum of 25% listing fee, plus there are usually a lot of other fees that reduce the amount of money you get out of the item. Second, auction houses are very limited market, the people who are there on that given day and possibly monitoring on the internet are your buyers. You cant argue with ebay and the much larger audience of potiential buyers. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didnt ebay change their policy for listing items? It is no cost to you to list an item, they take their fees out when you sell the item. Which is 25%, right? I have never sold anything on ebay so I dont know for sure.


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