# Making a car, need some help



## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

My father is big into G-scale trains and I'm making him a special car from scratch for his birthday. I don't have any trains of my own to look at, I need help!

a) How do the trucks attach to the cars? I have a set of Bachmann trucks and see they have a shallow depression like the socket half of a shallow ball-and-socket joint with a hole for a single screw through the center. But I'd love to see whats on the car- side of that joint? Does anyone have a picture?

b) Whats a typical width for the "body" of a typical car? I have found some dimensions online but am not sure if the width they're talking about refers to the structure of the car, or the little appendages like handrail and steps etc.

THanks!!


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi 999,
Welcome to MLS and I hope that you will find the help that you need.
Good for you to make such a special gift, and I hope that there is plenty of time!
Well I am not going to be able to help you too much as don't have a Bachmann car to look at!
However, you do need to find out what SCALE car you need to make for your Dad, as that will have a bearing on length, width and height.
Can you not measure some of his favourite cars and make it a similar size.
Have you decided what types of materials that you like to work with?
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Thanks!

Regarding the trucks - the trucks I have may be Bachmann, but my question is general. For example, are the trucks typically attached rigidly so that they can ONLY rotate through turns around the screw/post? Or are they attached with some "wiggle" so they can pivot to ascend slopes, etc? 

You guys are going to laugh over how impractical this is.... but Pop is really into LOOONG trains. He always buys the longest passenger coaches he can find and he would probably kill a man for a G-scale DD-40.

... so I'm making him a Schnabel car.

I have dimensions and have scaled them appropriately, but there are a number of things that I'm taking some artistic license with (for example, the size of the trucks; wheel size, axle spacing, etc is what it is). Because the car is so unusual I want to make sure that what I make is in line with "typical" car widths so that it works with other trains - for example, even if a real Schnabel car is wider, I want to make sure my model version can still pass other trains properly on his tracks.

I don't have access to his trains, or to any trains, so I need a measurement from some kind soul - just whatever the width of the "body" of a typical car is, and also what the width at the widest appendage might be. It might be good to know how tall typical cars are too, from the top of the rails.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

You need to go out and get the current issue of "Garden Railways" magazine..
April 2014 issue..
it contains an article about scratch building a Schnabel car! 
Barnes & Noble carries it.

Three dimensions:










For model railroad trucks, you want:

1. plenty of Yaw - the most obvious one.
2. Some pitch, to allow trucks to move with grades, and handle rough track.
3. almost no roll..

Yaw and Pitch you can pretty much have as much as you want..
Roll is minimized to keep the cars from wobbling side to side..

Scot


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The best approach is one end tight for rotation only and the other end loose. The result is a three point suspension. The car won't rock, yet can easily follow the track. 
This has been a model railroad standard for decades.
The tighter end spreads the lift out to the wheels, the loose truck centers the lift at the kingpin.

John


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Scottychaos said:


> You need to go out and get the current issue of "Garden Railways" magazine..
> April 2014 issue..
> it contains an article about scratch building a Schnabel car!
> Barnes & Noble carries it.


No kidding? Wow, maybe thats why Pop started mentioning it... if not thats a crazy coincidence.

Thanks for the tip.



Totalwrecker said:


> The best approach is one end tight for rotation only and the other end loose. The result is a three point suspension. The car won't rock, yet can easily follow the track.
> This has been a model railroad standard for decades.
> The tighter end spreads the lift out to the wheels, the loose truck centers the lift at the kingpin.
> 
> John


Awesome, makes sense. 

Is it common or appropriate to use some type of bearing at these pivots? Or will a plastic-on-plastic joint be sufficient?


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Welcome aboard 999,

You might get some inspiration and guidance from a car I am working on. Mine is a bit busy as I am working toward a fairly 'scale model' but the principals would still apply. If you are looking for something a bit simpler, contact me off list, I may have something that will help.

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/17324/search/view/post_id/186047

Bob C.


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Scottychaos said:


> You need to go out and get the current issue of "Garden Railways" magazine..
> April 2014 issue..
> it contains an article about scratch building a Schnabel car!
> Barnes & Noble carries it.


I picked up a copy, good article! His was a bit shorter than the full 72-wheel version I'm intending to make, but I liked his hinge placement notes. I was intending to keep things as accurate as possible, but his support is enough to make me comfortable modifying things in the name of practicality.

This is my render, minus cabin and various doo-dads.









I started building last night - Pop's birthday is on the 26th, I have less than 2 weeks to finish.


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Back to dimensions - 

The car is 3.875" wide at present and 6.3" from the top of the rail to the top of the load arms. Is that comparable to other cars? I'm comfortable with deviating from true-scale if it I need to in order to achieve a believable look.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

10 ft in 1/29 is over 4 1/8"...
Most cars are at least 10 ft. wide...
Do you have real dimensions of your vehicle?

Dirk..... ;-)
.....no pressure here ..right. ...two weeks...


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

SD90WLMT said:


> 10 ft in 1/29 is over 4 1/8"...
> Most cars are at least 10 ft. wide...
> Do you have real dimensions of your vehicle?
> 
> ...


I have good measurements for the length and height, but not the width. S. Berliner III's site has drawings that I copied but the only width he mentions (that I can find) is for the load, not the car itself (http://sbiii.com/rrschnb0.html).

This page (http://www.tcaetrain.org/articles/chronicles/SCHNABEL/) says 14', but honestly I think they're referring to the load.

This one says 10' 3" (http://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2012/09/bachmann-ho-schnabel-car).


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

More reading...

The latest car, WECX 801, is 231 ft long - about 8 ft in 1/29th...
It is also 18 ft tall...almost 7.5"

So ya you're a little small...
But ..what size curves does your father run on now?

Dirk


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

SD90WLMT said:


> More reading...
> 
> The latest car, WECX 801, is 231 ft long - about 8 ft in 1/29th...
> It is also 18 ft tall...almost 7.5"
> ...


Hey I just deliver the car, making the layout to fit is his responsibility. 

So I'm 15% short on height and 8% short on width. Hmm. Wonder how I missed that up... 

EDIT#2: I think I may have been using 1:32 for the scale because thats what I read on a page about trucks. I know he'll probably pull it with some USA Trains diesels (because he has a bunch), so looks like 1:29 is the right scale. Glad I asked you guys.

EDIT: This site http://southern.railfan.net/schnabel/schnabel_cars.html has some dimensions for similar Schnabel cars, though not the *EBX 800, and they're 10.5' wide, so I'll scale up to 10.5' wide, 18' tall. Thanks.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok...back to work ya go...
Down in the basement....
Do not come up till ya get it done!!!!

;-)
;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

DIRK


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

How this look? Is the 11.4' too wide?


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Looks good to me! Hey, even the manufacturers make up their own scales ...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Undercover999 said:


> No kidding? Wow, maybe thats why Pop started mentioning it... if not thats a crazy coincidence.
> 
> Thanks for the tip.
> 
> ...


I have known folks to use nylon washers depending on the weight of the load. I'd suggest polished metal under the nylon for that Schnabel, look at the mag, his is in wood and he worked out the bearings.

Welcome aboard, I hope Pop has 15 -20' or larger diameter curves and clearance.
John


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Holy crapple this is going to be huge.

Finished the first beam/rocker/bogie thing.


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## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

Undercover999 said:


> Back to dimensions -
> 
> The car is 3.875" wide at present and 6.3" from the top of the rail to the top of the load arms. Is that comparable to other cars? I'm comfortable with deviating from true-scale if it I need to in order to achieve a believable look.


if you're looking to model a car most accurately for 45mm gauge track, you are right on the money with your dimensions. for 1:32 scale, a car width of 3.875" translates to a prototype width of 10' 4".

good luck...gary


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Building momentum, got the "rear" one done.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like a great project.

Re: truck pivots. I often head for Ace/True Value Hardware for some nylon washers and some brass washers (I wrote 'nylon and brass washers' but decided that might be confusing!) They have some quite wide (1/2" - 3/4") nylon washers that will act as a rotating support for the car on the truck.

Regular brass or steel wood screws will work if the body of the car is wood - otherwise I use nuts and bolts if there is room, or glue a nut under the body. There is usually a bolster (cross piece where the truck pivots - spreads the weight from the sides of the car onto the pivot.) The bolster can take the screw/bolt. Sometimes I cut a piece of brass tube to sleeve the hole in the truck, and sometimes I use another brass washer to hold the truck, under the screw head. All depends what size you use.

Don't tighten the trucks too much - while it is good to have one truck loose and the other 'fixed', you still need it to rock a bit so that a hump in the track won't let the wheels leave the rails.
Bachmann trucks a plenty floppy, so a slightly tight pivot at each end should work.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Looks like Undercover999 consumes a lot of wine.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

I downloaded this drawing some time ago from the NMRA web site. It appears to be no longer available there, but thought it might be of some help in your endeavors.

http://www.gscalejunkie.com/GeneralPics/CatchAll/SCHNABLE256colorHO.pdf

Bob C.


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Wow, awesome - thats exactly what I have been looking for!


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## Aaron S (Aug 1, 2013)

Great project! 
Are you going to use a bottle of wine for the cargo?


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Aaron S said:


> Great project!
> Are you going to use a bottle of wine for the cargo?


That is a GREAT idea! Maybe more like a stack of three to fit the car better...

OOOOoh or maybe one of these:


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Undercover999 said:


> That is a GREAT idea! Maybe more like a stack of three to fit the car better...
> 
> OOOOoh or maybe one of these:


 
HAHAHA!!! O' the possibilites are endless


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Between several tool problems and my 8-5 job, I'm not where I'd like to be. Only 5 days left until his birthday... but I bought myself a few days since I'm not going to see him until the 28th.

Also now that I have better drawings I notice a lot in my model isn't really accurate.... oh well, its too late and I don't think he'll care.

The vertical piece is only ~60% done - so BIG!!


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Grrrroooowwwwwing.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I hope you checked the size of your shop before starting!


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

I'm just babbling here, don't mind me...

I finished designing the details like the railings, steps, cabin, etc etc. I didn't do everything, but Pop will have to do the rest on his own if he likes.









I also finished about 80% of the structure of the car. 

















I still have to do the lowest set of arms/beams/rockers/whateveryoucallthem that interface directly with the trucks, but those are small and will go quickly.

In the pic above I just have the load arm laying on the large central beam, but I've since pressed in a set of 608 bearings that will hold the arm shaft.









Also this might be a common technique, I don't know, but I felt clever when I thought it up... My large parts are all hollow due to their extreme size - they'd be wayy to heavy (and expensive to make) if they were solid. However some of the thinner parts needed some additional strength to compensate.

I used plastic Airsoft BBs as a bulk filler for polyester resin and potted them into my hollow spaces. The result is awesome for two reasons a) it used very little resin so it was cheap and my plastic didn't melt when the resin set up and b) its much lighter than using resin and/or finer fillers.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Didn't see where you said, but what kind of printer are you using? Some of us have been using shapeways, and are on the fence about buying a 3d printer. Would you have any advice to offer?


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

My printer doesn't have a name, its homebrew. At one point it was a $500 Reprap kit, which I've slowly upgraded from there.

"Drewbot", maybe?


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Dad will be here at 4pm, ahhhh!

Nearly finished now, just printing the "platform" at the end of the car and then need to glue on the steps and railings.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Looking good!!! Be excited to hear about his reaction.

Keep us posted!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

My...my...that is just ...HUGE..!!!!!!

You'll have to bring it to AZ someday and run it on My layout..
Bring yourself and your Dad too...

Really....

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

"My...my...that is just ...HUGE..!!!!!!"


You are right it IS HUGE..... and there is _another one _that goes with it to haul the BIG items!

Larry


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Pop was STOKED! Super excited.

Thanks everyone for your help. These are the last pics I've got; we set it up on 4 of the 9 trucks:


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Any more updates? Pics of the car in action? Did your Dad paint it, etc?


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Funny timing - Pop got distracted a bit but put some work into the car this week. Only a bad picture tho, I'll see if I can get some better ones out of him.


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## Sjoc78 (Jan 25, 2014)

So you are making a Schnabel, as noted in the GR article his curves and the clearances around them should be taken into consideration. I noted that this article shortened the car due to wanting to operate around the curves the author had. Make sure he can run such a behemoth before building a full length model.

I finished building a detailed caboose last month and well I had been working on it since December, maybe I took extra time, and I did put the project down for a couple days here and there but give yourself time especially if you are bending and soldering handrails.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Joc78...sorry...did you not look..... at this thread....

This car is complete and finished....was given as a present to his father..who is now painting and adding details ....

You comments are inconsistant with this thread...and a completed project...

I'm curious why you posted what you did....considering it is done!!

Dirk


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## RailRide (Aug 26, 2014)

My normal hangout is the forum at O Gauge Railroading, but I ran across this thread while researching additional material for an O scale version of WECX 801.

I bought plans from a modeler who exhibited one on OGR's forum, but his cars were built from wood, and are substantially less detailed than yours (as well as the instructions he wrote for sale on Ebay 9_9 ). I intend to convert the instructions to sheet styrene construction using a combination of prototype photos, video, the PDF mentioned earlier in this thread, instructions from a now-discontinued Concept Models HO kit, and your photos, in order to build a better-looking car than the vague instructions for basswood models I bought.

One item that I'm a bit puzzled over is the design of the span bolsters that connect each pair of linked trucks. I know the car is no longer in your possession, but seeing as pretty much everything above the trucks was 3D printed, do you have a close-up CAD view of the span bolsters as you designed them ?

---PCJ, a.k.a RailRide at ogrforum.ogaugerr.com


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## Undercover999 (Mar 14, 2014)

Somehow I didn't get notified of this reply - if you ever see this: sorry!

Each pair of trucks is connected by a cruciform piece like this (in orange):


















The exception is the pair on the end, in which case that piece is integrated with the platform jobby at the end of the car and provides a place to put the coupler:


















Is that what you needed?


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## d_sinsley (Mar 29, 2011)

*Coming in late*

Why this thread caught my attention I do not know but wow that thing is impressive. I would say bring it to Idaho to run on my layout but a) I don't have one yet and it will likely have 6-9 ft radius curves for my 1:20.3 narrow gauge trains with 30' cars. Some how your 200+ long car I don't think could do it.

Job well done. Ambitious project


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