# There must be a story behind this



## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Just noticed on eBay, a live steam loco being sold for parts. This model has lived such a rough life, I doubt that many of us can image it....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Accucraft-...431530?hash=item4d67d40b2a:g:wxcAAOSw0exaEJmh

I image it will sell cheap, but is anyone brave enough to tackle this patient from the Critical Ward?

Ross Schlabach


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

No parts available for repair!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

not worth fixing?


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## Eric Bowles (Jun 8, 2014)

The Accucraft Mantra of no T1 parts makes even this derelict a worthy parts source, for those of us with T-1's, if it stays below $550-


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I bet Triple-R services could fix it right up... I just don't have any idea what it would cost!


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

With enough time and money, anything can be fixed and TRS can make necessary replacements. But as has been mentioned, the cost is in question and could be high. This locomotive has suffered so much abuse that repair is highly unlikely. Judging from the pictures, I think the best that any buyer can hope for is that the chassis and lower running gear may be salvageable for parts. Beyond that, not much.

There are LS locomotives that are famous for their fine running and steaming qualities, and these can be worth the serious expense to bring them back into good operation. But this model, not so much.

Ross Schlabach


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Ross,

Wow, that damage looks almost purposeful ...how can one f-up that bad? .. perhaps the wife got a hold of that one in retribution of his lack of compensory adjustments..... .....or a guy who should have looked for help getting started....I would agree, Ross...parts only given what you have there. 

Sam


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Bafling!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I looked at that too, and liked this bit: 
_"I attempted a boiler rebuild with fitting copper from the hardware store, welding it back together, and also with using multiple sealants in the cab, but was unsuccessful and gave up"_. Sure looks a mess. Poor guy.

There was a G1M Britannia 4-6-2 on sale on eBay when I looked - went for $1500.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I imagine, with a whole bunch of work, I could get that thing functioning again; strip it down to parade rest, rebuild the backhead, (who knows what the heck that was all about!) hydro etc, etc.

Looked at it on Ebay for a solid two minutes.

But bodywork!?!? Not my forte.

If it goes for more than $800 I would be amazed!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Holy moley, I did not look at the large size pictures at first! How could every joint in the cab leak? That is nuts.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, that's pretty bad... looks like solder applied by wrapping sheets of it around things and then torching it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, look at the valve protruding from the cab, looks like the valve stem is itself soldered to the valve body... unreal


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The boiler itself may not be too bad... maybe (just maybe) all it needs is a backhead replumbing job. Assumming you can get the old pipes off without destroying the rest of boiler.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Semper Vaporo said:


> The boiler itself may not be too bad...


Wishful thinking - if the boiler is still in there. But you could always get a new one from Justin?



> maybe (just maybe) all it needs is a backhead replumbing job. Assumming you can get the old pipes off without destroying the rest of boiler.


He says he tried to fix it with bits from the hardware store welded one and sealant in the cab.

On the bright side, someone is selling an Accu tender (D&RGW bulble bee) for $800. The T1 looks to have an untouched tender, so it's maybe worth the $$.


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## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

This hobby is just not for everyone.

Steve


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking at the photos before I read the description, I thought he must have had R/C gear in the cab, and a cab fire that melted it all. $1050.00 with 38 bids and a couple days to go, guessing somebody is either feeling ambitious or desperate for parts. I wish the best of luck to whoever ends up with that thing, she sure could use some love!


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

It just could be a lot of silicone around the backhead plumbing. On mine, after just four years of running, the leaks around all the back head fittings got so bad that when I ran the engine there was steam coming out the cab window. (So much for Accucraft plumbing...) So lately I spent a week or so redoing all the joints that were leaking and testing each time in steam just to be sure it wasn't leaking any more. I had to go through that process about five different times before I got things straightened out. Got it ready as we are running friday at Rail Expo in Chartres and for three days. 
So it may just be that the guy who bought it, as he didn't know anything about what he was doing, just smeared tons of silicone around all the fittings, in an attempt to get it to stop leaking. It certainly looks like it is. But that still leaves the body work to do on it but it could be a good deal then at those kinds of prices.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think if you look at the full size pictures, you will clearly see thin sheets of metal and solder. The "sealant" has a smooth surface, something you cannot achieve with silicone caulkings without a forming tool, like a wet artist's spatula.

Look again at the picture I posted, in full resolution on a large screen, and see if you don't change your opinion on what the plumbing is covered with.

Anyway, no matter what the material, what a mess!

Greg


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

The more I look at it, the more I would like to give a shot at fixing it. But with the current bid at $1650, a whole lot of folks are either desperate or smoking crack!!!


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

du-bousquetaire said:


> SNIP...
> So it may just be that the guy who bought it, as he didn't know anything about what he was doing, just smeared tons of silicone around all the fittings, in an attempt to get it to stop leaking. It certainly looks like it is. But that still leaves the body work to do on it but it could be a good deal then at those kinds of prices.


To me, it looks like a product that I have had limited success with on full scale internal combustion engines. 

JB Weld, maybe that is the "welding" he alluded to on the Ebay post.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, I guess people think it's easily fixed. What is the going price for one in good shape?

Greg


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I just cant imagine someone doing that to something that they paid $6K for. JMHO


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm amazed at the bidding on this POS! Bids are already past $1,600. I just don't see the value there. But there is bidding fever.

Ross Schlabach


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric, I think the only good parts are the chassis and some parts off the tender. Bidding to 1600+, past any real salvage value. Being a few have sold used for 3k or so. Looks like it was run dry by the description so Id expect really torched boiler. Who knows whatvthe plumbing parts are, nothing can be seen in the images. A expensive mistake.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

$1900 now, with 56 bids, and still the better part of a day to go. That's insane! Looks like it's mostly the same 3 or 4 people trying to outbid each other now. Whoever that 1***N (ebay masks the usernames of the bidders) is, sure seems to want this thing pretty badly!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gonna take some cleanup!


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

My first impression on seeing the photos -- especially the cab interior that Greg posted -- was that this was the result of a really bad alcohol fire. But if that were the case, I would've expected to see damage to the cab exterior. If that did happen, the damage could've been compounded by the owner running it dry, perhaps more than once (the hoses to the tender alcohol and water fittings are not in the best of shape), followed by a series of ham-handed attempts to fix it. I would hope to heck that the guy didn't actually use welding equipment.

In any event, this is certainly salvageable, assuming a wide-open checkbook and no thought to whether the thousands you'd have to sink into this wreck to make it whole (and safe to operate) again would be an order of magnitude more than what you'd pay for a good used example.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joel, by looking at tje side views the lower cab and under seems to be overheated and blackened. Id expect he thought the fire was out and it say heating up for a while. Either way whoever gets it will be in for one **** of a ride. I know a few I spoke to said they want to part of it.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

JoelB said:


> My first impression on seeing the photos -- especially the cab interior that Greg posted -- was that this was the result of a really bad alcohol fire. But if that were the case, I would've expected to see damage to the cab exterior. If that did happen, the damage could've been compounded by the owner running it dry, perhaps more than once (the hoses to the tender alcohol and water fittings are not in the best of shape), followed by a series of ham-handed attempts to fix it. I would hope to heck that the guy didn't actually use welding equipment.
> 
> In any event, this is certainly salvageable, assuming a wide-open checkbook and no thought to whether the thousands you'd have to sink into this wreck to make it whole (and safe to operate) again would be an order of magnitude more than what you'd pay for a good used example.


A simpler explanation is that it suffered from a common problem for this engine - o-ring failure in the one or more cylinders. The symptom is that the machine seems to have plenty of steam but hardly moves. Even with experience, this is tough to diagnose as the o-ring issue is only apparent under steam. A novice might believe that the inevitable minor steam leaks around the backhead were the problem. The rest is increasingly desperate attempts to fix it with sealant, solder etc. 

It could be that the lead bidder has actually seen the engine and knows that the repair is relatively straightforward - I can't otherwise explain someone taking this level of risk. 

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, it sold for $1,900, I'm sure someone will pop up looking for parts.

Greg


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## coldrain85 (Nov 24, 2017)

Wow, I only recently acquired my first steam engine and I will be coming here for advice on how not to end up with a locomotive that looks like this unfortunate T1. I won't be firing it any time soon so I have time to learn a few things before I dive into it.

I posted a photo of my new locomotive in this thread along with a few pics from my visit to the Accucraft headquarters in Union City, CA when I went to pick it up a few months back. I live a couple of hours from there by car which is nice. My post has not shown up yet though. It said it needs moderator approval, I'm guessing because I'm new here and I attached photos.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think there's a minimum number of posts to allow links in your posts too, so go ahead and post more to get past that.

Greg

p.s. Welcome!


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Or better yet,
Start your own thread. Folks here are very happy to give newbies advice.


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## coldrain85 (Nov 24, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I think there's a minimum number of posts to allow links in your posts too, so go ahead and post more to get past that.
> 
> Greg
> 
> p.s. Welcome!


Thanks. I am excited to be getting back into it, and before I am too old to look forward to building hundreds of feet of track bed that will be solid enough to support a 40 pound locomotive. Not to get ahead of myself though... 

Yes, I tried to include a link and I was not able to do so. I was able to upload the pictures though and am waiting for moderator approval. I will wait a few days and see if it shows up in the live steam thread. If not, I will try again later.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I sure hope we can follow the "restoration" of this T1 model to operation. Have to keep a watch out for the new owner posting.

Greg


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## coldrain85 (Nov 24, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I sure hope we can follow the "restoration" of this T1 model to operation. Have to keep a watch out for the new owner posting.
> 
> Greg


Restoration? I'm thinking that the new owner bought it for parts. It looks like the previous owner messed it up pretty bad trying to "fix" it. 

I remember seeing a used T1 sell for about 3k last year. It had been fired quite a few times, but it was in decent running condition according to the seller.

Matt


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, a nice model, well, buying for parts makes more sense, but I'm thinking that at $1,900 someone is thinking they will make it run.

It will be fun to see.

Greg - 556


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> It will be fun to see.


I doubt the buyer even knows MLS exists.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, my "theory" is that he may search for help and find use or LSC or some people that are on the forum. It's not a huge community.

But it's fun to speculate, you may very well be correct.

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Considering some of the comments here in this thread the new owner may not want to admit here that he bought it!


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## coldrain85 (Nov 24, 2017)

Semper Vaporo said:


> Considering some of the comments here in this thread the new owner may not want to admit here that he bought it!


I don't see why. The funny comments are more about the seller treating a valuable piece of machinery so badly. The dents on the body are really unfortunate, but can probably be pounded out and repainted. Major repairs to the boiler will probably be necessary since replacing it is probably out of the question. Parts will likely need to be fabricated which will require schematics from Accucraft. Repairing it is doable for someone with the skills. Repair it, weather it. It will look really cool. If it can't be repaired, shelve it for a while and someone will eventually need parts. The tender alone is worth some coin. I don't think $1900 is too much, especially for someone who knows what they are doing and plans to resurrect it. 

I asked about obtaining the schematics when I bought my Allegheny a few months ago and this is precisely why. The sales manager said he would look into it, but I should probably email him a reminder. Even a 5 year old locomotive like the T-1 might as well be a 1950's Mercedes. Damage it and your options for repair are very limited. Fortunately, most owners of these engines treat them like one of their children..... except the guy on eBay with the burned out T-1. I still plan on running my engines 10-15 years from now and who knows if the manufacturer will still be in business by then. If you can't buy spare parts, you need to salvage them or fabricate them. Otherwise, the locomotive will be destined to become an expensive mantle piece after a few dozen operating hours, or less.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm really curious to know exactly what the goop is on the valves in the cab. To me, it did indeed look like thin metal sheets gooped with solder.

Greg


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I asked about obtaining the schematics when I bought my Allegheny a few months ago and this is precisely why. The sales manager said he would look into it, but I should probably email him a reminder.[/QUOTE]


Id bet you didnt get an answer as he quit towards the end of July. As a dealer myself, those files are not given out. But even if sonething was there is no drawing set that will give you. Step by step build. Only arrangement drawing drawn are pretty simple and not a exploded drawing. Just a isometric drawing if a completed boiler or chassis.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Now this brings up an interesting topic: My regretted friend JVR used to tell me how he and many got started in gauge one after WW 2 in England. It seems that at the time, the model railway stores were selling gauge one pre war Bing for Basset Lowk and so on at bargain prices, to make room on their store shelves for more OO scale or O gauge products. So he like many bought some and began the whole hobby we now so much enjoy of running steam trains in the garden. Little by little, these engines began to wear out cylinders, valves and even boilers. So they learned to repair them and even replace some of those parts that didn't function any longer. Developing their machining skills in the process, untill they were capable of building engines from the ground up. Its a true story.


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## coldrain85 (Nov 24, 2017)

Kovacjr said:


> Id bet you didnt get an answer as he quit towards the end of July. As a dealer myself, those files are not given out. But even if sonething was there is no drawing set that will give you. Step by step build. Only arrangement drawing drawn are pretty simple and not a exploded drawing. Just a isometric drawing if a completed boiler or chassis.


This was in early September. The sales manager is Charles and I'm pretty sure he's still there. I don't need a step by step build, just schematics. I need to know the exact dimensions of the parts in case they need to be fabricated in the future. My dad has a metal lathe and I have access to various 3D printers at work. If Accucraft is building locomotives that will ultimately need to be serviced (because they all will) yet makes zero effort to provide common wear parts, or at least data that will allow someone to fabricate such parts, the Allegheny will be the first and last anything that I ever buy from them. I plan on running this locomotive for a long long time and for 6k I expect a certain amount of service. 

Based on this discussion I am going to lean on Accucraft even harder to provide me with the info that I need, especially if I cannot rely on them to be of any help when my locomotive eventually needs servicing.


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

nowadays companies never give out blueprints to anything. When was the last time a tool or car gave instructions on how to take it apart and reassemble, some harbor freight tools come with a breakout, not all.

Part of using vintage tools, and being thrifty, I learned to find similar devices and reverse engineer the broken or worn out parts. selecting the easier part to remake helps a lot. Such as if you don't have the tools to make a new cylinder, but can put a reamer in and make it true again, then make a new set of pistons or larger rings to fit the teamed cylinder.

Seeing as you have a lathe and 3D printer suggests you have some engineering nack, and knowledge of using measuring tools. 

It just takes some time to measure the exhisting parts and make some dimensioned drawings or 3D model. Then build said model.

Figuring the wear patterns and original locations can take a bit of fiddling around, but gets easier with experience.


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

You said "Based on this discussion I am going to lean on Accucraft even harder to provide me with the info that I need, especially if I cannot rely on them to be of any help when my locomotive eventually needs servicing."

I'm afraid you are going to be very much disappointed at the response you get from ACC. No manufacturer will give you parts drawings for their locomotives and that includes Roundhouse. As a live steamer you are expected to be able to maintain your locomotive. I agree that spares should be available (like Aster does/did) but you are on your own with ACC.

That being said with proper lubrication and cleaning you should get a lifetime of fun from your purchase. The key to long life is keeping it clean and regular, not over, lubrication especially if you run on ground level lines.

mocrownsteam

Mike McCormack
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## coldrain85 (Nov 24, 2017)

JPCaputo said:


> Seeing as you have a lathe and 3D printer suggests you have some engineering nack, and knowledge of using measuring tools.


I'm not a pro machinist or anything like that. My occupation is related to mathematics and math related educational technology, but yeah, I know how to use calipers and what not. I just need to practice more with the lathe. I will likely inherit it at some point so I want to get more familiar with it. Fabricating a replacement part is one thing if you have the original broken part, but if you don't you either have to refer to the schematics or find a similar part that you can copy. 




mocrownsteam said:


> You said "Based on this discussion I am going to lean on Accucraft even harder to provide me with the info that I need, especially if I cannot rely on them to be of any help when my locomotive eventually needs servicing."
> 
> I'm afraid you are going to be very much disappointed at the response you get from ACC. No manufacturer will give you parts drawings for their locomotives and that includes Roundhouse. As a live steamer you are expected to be able to maintain your locomotive. I agree that spares should be available (like Aster does/did) but you are on your own with ACC.
> 
> ...


Sure, you are probably right. When I asked the Accucraft sales manager about the schematics he paused for a second before he said he would look into it. I will ask him once more if I can at least obtain the specs for a specific part, but he will probably blow me off. I get that they want to protect their intellectual property. Still, it wouldn't kill them to provide me with specs on a part if something breaks. Providing replacement parts that commonly wear out or break is just good business, but from some of the comments I have read on this forum I am getting the impression that Accucraft is only interested in moving product, not supporting the product that they make. Oh well, maybe I will take another look at what Dingler is making these days. I just prefer US locos and rolling stock.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The TOY manufacturers that produce these expen$ive TOYS do not make many of them in the first place.

They do make spares of some parts, but not very many and only make them available on a 1st come - 1st served basis after the original build is done.

They do not stock parts beyond that. And they do not make replacement parts when the original stash is gone.

Aster of Japan just "cleaned house" and got rid of lots of the 'spare parts' that were available for many of the oldest models... some were sold (and only to Japanese customers that were able to take them home from the sale) and what didn't get sold, were, reportedly, sent to the junk yard/land fill.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Winning bid:
US $1,900.00

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

reported in post 31

Greg


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