# Roadbed Question



## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm trying to connect phase 1 roadbed (concrete) to phase 2 (ladder using 5/8" vinyl strips with 1-1/2" PVC pipe for risers). The final stretch of ladder will be at ground level using the PVC risers sunk in the ground about 12" in a hole drilled with a 2" auger. Instead of filling the hole (and pipe) with dirt only I'm thinking of using gravel. Is this sufficient for stability or should I use concrete? We don't have wild weather here in Central CA so I'm not worried about frost heave.

I appreciate your thoughts

Richard


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I can't speak to stability required for the ladder method, because I've not used it. However, since the ladder is depending on the risers for lateral strength, you might want to sink your risers deeper. 

If you don't use concrete, and do use gravel, you might want to add some sort of cross-piece or collar near the bottom of the riser pipe, to act as an anchor against accidental pull-out. From my limited experience, it's easy to pull out a shallow PVC pipe, but (if gravel or sand are involved) very difficult to shove the thing back in. To stay with the 2" auger, maybe a coupling cut in half, and glued on, might suffice. 

===>Cliffy


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## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks Cliffy...I like the coupler idea. My auger it is able to drill 24" down so I went to each hole and went as deep as I could this morning. The pipe will now be between 21" and 23". I think your idea of using a coupler to create an anchor effect is good and then concrete to set it will do the trick. I might even drill some larger holes in the pipe near the base for the concrete to "ooze" out of. I'll give it a try and see what happens. 

Thanks, 
Richard


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Richard, 

If you decide on concrete (on the outside), then the cross-drilled holes will lock the concrete to the pipe. You should be able to jam some around the exterior, and let that be your anchor. That is, IF you're going to the trouble of concrete. I suppose the collar works with that approach too, but I was mainly thinking about pull-out with gravel or dirt. 

Good luck, and post some pics! 

===>Cliffy


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## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By CliffyJ on 14 Jul 2013 01:14 PM 
Richard, 

If you decide on concrete (on the outside), then the cross-drilled holes will lock the concrete to the pipe. You should be able to jam some around the exterior, and let that be your anchor. That is, IF you're going to the trouble of concrete. I suppose the collar works with that approach too, but I was mainly thinking about pull-out with gravel or dirt. 

Good luck, and post some pics! 

===>Cliffy 

I decided to go with concrete as an anchor. Since the pipe was only 1 1/2" in diameter and the hole was only a tad more than 2" I figure it good to be safer than sorry. I took my trusty Dremel and cut a few rectangular openings so the concrete could ooze out and create more of an anchor. I filled the pipes with concrete this morning...one word of advice?? Make sure you put the pipe in the hole before you add the concrete. What a dummy I am







. Anyway I was smart enough to realize the error of my way on the first hole.

This evening each pipe seemed pretty firm in the ground. I'll let things set over the next day or two before I attach the ladder. But below are a few pics I shot. Once the ladder is attached I can finally lay the track down. Very excited at this next phase in the construction of my railroad.

Richard


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard,

I went 24" deep, then drove the pipe down another three to four inches. Then back fill with dirt and tamped as I back fill.
I bought a bubble level at Menard's to keep the pipe straight as I back filled. 

Don


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Richard, 

I think your method will work real well. I found on my railroad that even with a 3/4" dia pipe that I used, the stability of the ladder is very solid when you fill in dirt around the ladder. 

Interesting things I figured out, I thought I had some pretty good frost heave this past winter. My ladder was sticking out of the ground by 2". However, after close investigation I realized the ladder hadn't moved, it was the ground settling. Another thing to do with a ladder roadbed (although Richard doesn't have a problem with frost heave) is seal the top of the vertical pipe. The water can get into the pipe and settle in the bottom of it. When the frost comes it will push the pipe out of the ground. Found that out the first year.


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## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Things are very solid this morning. And taking advantage of some extra cool morning temperatures I've ventured out to finally cut away some of the original concrete roadbed where I'll connect the ladder. There is also no stress with the new ladder sections so I think I'll go ahead and attach them to the newly installed vertical posts. Once this is done I'm cleared to finally lay the track down...this after a 2 year wait. Very excited. 

Richard


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Jake, 

This is one big reason I like the ladder system so much.. It stays in place, and the ground can settle or move all it wants and not disturb the roadbed base!! The dirt can even be dug out or the scenery lines changed without disturbing the line... 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm very close to having the both Phase 1 and Phase 2 connected to each other. After some creative cutting on my concrete roadbed where the ladder system will be attached I decided to add one more post and had to concrete it in this morning. Plus I was short 1 vinyl strip to finish the ladder...so a run to Home Depot was in store. Then of course a nap...oh well. Will probably have it all connected tonight. At least thats the plan. Then track!! 

Richard


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I just saw your main build thread Richard, beautiful work!!


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