# USA Alum Passenger Cars: Springs Falling Off



## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

I just bought/received 5 USA aluminum passenger cars. Before running the cars and connecting to engines, I modified the layout to ensure I had at least 10' diameter curves and less than 2% grade. I also manually pushed the cars around the track to confirm there were no issues. After confirming the layout was OK, I carried the cars into my workshop to store. I than noticed 6 small springs on the floor. I found these springs on 2 of the cars had fallen from the axle/wheel/suspension system. I also noticed that one car was missing 4 springs from one assembly as if it was shipped that way. I then checked the axle/wheel suspension systems on the remaining cars and found some of the axle/suspension assemblies had a thin plastic plate (3/8" x 11/16" with 2 small rectangular holes) that seemed to hold the axle/suspension system to the bottom of the car. Other axle/suspension systems did not have this plastic plate.

When I opened the pass car boxes, each box had several of these plastic plates loose in the box. Not knowing what these pieces were and no directions, I saved them. Now I think I know what they are.

My questions are:
1) Have other forum members experienced these issues with USA passenger cars?
2) I'm assuming the springs came disconnected from the suspension assembly because the plate was not glued or mechanically attached... 2a) Assuming the parts are too small to attach with screws, should these plates be glued? 2b) If glued, What do you do if the axle/wheel/suspension assembly needs to be removed from the car?
3) I will need more springs and Plastic plates. Are these parts available from USA. I plan to connect USA.

Please advise if I have missed anything in the diagnosis of this issue, and my assessment of the solution.

As always, thanks in advance for your comments/suggestions. I have appreciated your advice on past threads.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Are these brand new cars?


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

Yes. The last three dropped shipped from Charles Ro 8/17/2012.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you post pictures of what you are talking about? 

Thanks, Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,
Thinking the same thing. If these came right from USA in this condition then something is really wrong. I have never heard of problems with the USA passenger cars.


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

I have 8 of these cars and one had a side frame broken from poor handling at ups, I called USATs part dept and they sent the necessary parts for the repair for free no questions asked.

Jethro
A happy customer of QSI and a actual
owner of the product unlike knut
signature by knuts request from other
thread


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have had one side frame broken also in shipping, box was obviously dropped. One out of 10 cars. Free sideframe from USAT and I bought it "new" on ebay. 

They are heavy cars. 

I meant to take one out and look for this piece of plastic. Truman, if you can't post a picture, can you describe where this piece of plastic goes? 

Greg


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

I have photos saved on my desktop. How can I include them in a reply, or attach them to a reply?


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Truman 

You will need to save the photots to an internet site such as Photobucket. 

Then you can copy the photo and post it to this thread. 

Or you can email them to me and I will post for you. 

[email protected] 


Randy


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Click on Reply or Quote to your last post, that will open an editor that will allow you to upload a pic or hundreds, to your account, then you insert it into your post. 
Use the icon that to me looks like a mountain with a pencil stuck in at an angle! If I remember it's next to old smilely. Or run your cursor over the icons and the descriptions will guide you. Just follow the steps and give ittime to process. We do ask that you limit pic size to 800 pixels wide. Wider and we have to scroll side to side to read the thread 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Randy, 
He is 1st class, he can post without the bucket. 
John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

you need to have them on the internet somewhere or you can upload them to your 1st class space. 

For now, how about emailing them to me until we get you "trained" (that was a joke) on uploading pictures. 

I'll post them for you. 

Regards, Greg


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

Following photos of some of the missing springs/plates. I believ these plates cab be glued; however,n if the springs ever need to replaced, the glued parts could be an issue.

Collage of 5 USA Cars


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll look at mine when I get at home... never noticed the plates. 

In the bottom picture, the 2 outer pencils show missing plates, and the 2 inner ones show missing springs, right? 

Looks like some rough handling in shipping, surprised nothing was broken. 

Greg


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

This photo shows the plate on the left and the missing plate on the right.


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

Greg, Yes. The photo with the 4 pencils has all 4 springs missing and the 2 plates. This photo depicts the way the car was when I first turned it over, after manually pushing it around my layout to check grade/radii. Some how the springs came out and the axle/suspension assy stayed on the car???.

Thanks to everyone for offering to load the photos for me. Needless to say, I need to practice loading photos!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You might experiment with your camera, looks like you need to set it for "macro" mode, the focus is a bit fuzzy. 

You also have to watch for the flash, it can wash the picture out. 

It looks like the plates are screwed or riveted on from here. 

Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, Truman
I just took a look at a car. The plates are metal and are what hold the journals in place. If the plate comes off that would allow the lower portion of the sideframe with the journals to come out or at least drop far enough for the springs to pop out. I can't tell if what holds the plates on are just press fit pins or a very small screw with a square head. I think the problem started with the plates coming off. The plates on the car I'm looking at are attached really solid. I don't see how even rough shipping would knock them loose. From what I can see in the photos the pins (?) are still there and the plates were able to slip off of them.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe because they are plastic? I want to look at mine, never remember them looking that way, but of course, via the pictures they do. 

Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,
The fasteners are metal.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, saw what you said, and what Truman said. 

Truman, you might want to look at those again to see what they are made from. 

Greg


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

Two of my Union Pacific cars where delivered to me the same way. They where drop shipped also. That was last fall, I replace the whole truck on both, furnished by them and sent the other trucks back. What was really strange was, it was both trucks on each car. I could see maybe one truck, but not both. when they where shipped, they where shipped two cars to a box, these two where one car out of two different boxes. That doesn't sound like rough shipping.[/b]


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I've been away from the computer and could not reply sooner. Following are my replies: 
The plates are probably metal, non-magnetic; I say, probably, because they are not magnetized; why metal when most everything else is plastic. I don't believe the material is the issue. The plates seem to be a 'forced-fit' connection. When I attached some of the plates, the force of the spring dis-connected the plate (s). This is the reason I asked if they should be 'glued'? 

Paul, I agree with your assessment of the plates falling off, and the journals 'popping' out of the slots and the springs falling out. 

I received the Vista Dome and Observation cars in May 2012 from RLD, each in their own box... they could have been dropped shipped. On August 17, 2012, I received the Baggage, dining,and coach cars dropped shipped from USA. Two of these cars were in one 'shipping' box. 

All Pass car boxes had plates loose in the boxes. I saved these pieces thinking they were there for some reason. I did not have the impression that these plates had fallen off the cars, primarily because they were in every box. 

I plan to call both RLD and USAT. Hopefully, I will get the positive results that some of received.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like these cars may have been returned to USAT due to the problem and then they just turned around and resent them out again to different guy. I had this happen to me and they tried to blame the dealer for the issue when in fact it had been dropped shipped to me from USAT. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've had the same issue. I think that's one of the reasons I've never had an issue with repair parts under warranty with USAT... they KNOW this happens. Those cars are pretty darn heavy, and with UPS playing football with them, it happens. 

Greg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 27 Aug 2012 03:56 PM 
Maybe because they are plastic? I want to look at mine, never remember them looking that way, but of course, via the pictures they do. 

Greg Greg.. When you have a chance, Can you e-mail the photos to us due to our browsers won't show nothing but "X's" Like to see what the problem he is having. tk's guy.


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## truman (Feb 15, 2008)

I called Robbie at RLD. He was fully aware of this issue, saying,"It happens every now and then." Told me to call USAT; they will send the parts. Called USAT; they were fully aware of the issue. As soon as I mentioned, trucks/springs falling off and missing plates that hold the springs, he asked how many trucks did I need. I told him that I didn't need complete trucks, just replacement springs and plates.They will be mailed tomorrow.









I asked about attaching the plates, if they were a 'force fit'? He said to place the plate on the post (metal?) and tap lightly to pin it (widen the head to hold the plate). *If this doesn't work, I assume the plate could be glued to the posts. What is the best glue for this application... metal to metal*









I don't believe this problem is caused by shipping. These cars are in plastic bags/Styrofoam and cannot move. The loose plates were on the outside of the Styrofoam boxes... How would the the plates (contained in the Styrofoam) fall off during shipping and arrive on the outside of the Styrofoam? Given the manual process to tap (pin) the posts to attach the plates to the journal/ contain the springs, no doubt, there will be loose plates. In my case, about 20%.









Thanks again to everyone for your comments.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Kind of sounds like a factory problem. Someone or machine not tapping those pins enough to spread the head. If you glue them I would consider clamping the sdie frame so the springs are compressed to hold the journal away from the plate until the glue dries. Not really sure what kind of glue.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)




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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you , Steve C. Hum.. wonder why it posted 4 time. Must of been the whitching hr.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Guess you would call that Murphys law when that happened according to RLD. Later RJD


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