# For the LGB guys, Question



## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

OK so i bought a LGB mikado a couple of weeks ago, i will be using it on DC only but wanted standing souds after i turned power off, so i bought LGB 65011 STORAGE COPACITOR for it, but no were in the instruction for the loco or the copacitor does it say were to plug it in....have any of you guys installed one of these? and if so can you tell me were to plug it in on the main board in the loco..
Thanks
Nick..


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Nick - the 65011 is for use only with LGB 65000-series sound modules. If your loco has factory sound, the 65011 isn't for you.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick,

Best bet is to contact technical support at Silvergate distributors. They are the old LGB of America people. The version I have had capacitors in the design. The guys at Silver Gate helped me out recently with a question about one of my moguls.


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## audi84 (Jan 13, 2008)

Mark

What is Silvergates' email address? I tried "silvergate.com" and came up with a computer software company
Thanks

Noel Thomas....aka audi84


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

My memory isn't very good, but I think it plugs into a socket marked track or power. I doubt if there are many choices where you could get it wrong. Maybe once you get it opened up you could tell me the options and it will trigger my memory! 
Stan, the newer locos with sound and decoder don't have the capacitance built in like the older ones, that's why he's not getting the standing sounds. I suspect LGB figured at the time that since many people buying the ones with decoders onboard would run DCC they wouldn't need the capacitors--leaving DC guys to spend the extra to get the capacitor pack. The last RhB loco I bought was like this, the 26512--I added the capacitor pack at the time because I was still running DC, and later removed it when I switched to MTSIII.

Keith


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you running LGB only? If so, it miight be simpler and cheaper to go with MTS. It is also not necessary to buy the whole package. All you need is the Central Station and the remote. You can use your current transformer/throttle. View my pages on POWER at my web site to show you how it's done. www.ckgscale.com. Regards, Dennis.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

ok heres what i did 

from memory some three years ago... 

first i dont recall the part number -but mine was a capacitor bundle with a plug designed for the standing sounds in an engine-it cost at the time about $60 

second -the board is behind the smoke box and behind the plastic wall through which the volume control protrudes-both pull out 

with LGB everything fits- foremost you must be gentle-there is no need for force-only finesse-the board will slide out of the boiler-it a spaghetti bowl of wiring-dont freak- 

its not a problem-pull the board out and you will see some unoccupied plugs-i believe there were 2 -light grey-the capacitor will only fit into one-plug it in -run the engine to check -it will need a few laps to charge the capacitor unit 

heres the part that takes more care-but do not become impatient-the board and capacitor WILL slide back into the boiler-but can become hung up on something in the back end-like a ledge or wieght or something -you may feel it--so you need to feel this and perhaps rotate the engine to allow gravity to shift the back end of the board so it will slide in, or just gently shift the angle of the board to clear whatever the protrusion is- 

-it does not take force-also be very careful with the volume pot-just dont bend it or apply any pressure as it is right on the board and you can affect the connection-so when you push the wall back in make sure it is aligned with the hole-i was not concerned with aq neat and proper arrangement of the capacitor lead-just 'stuff it' as you best are able 

the process is like working on an english car-the concept is simple-it just might take a bit of patience to complete the task-it is not difficult-the most difficult aspect is stuffing the board back into the boiler-it will fit-it might take you half an hour from start to finish 

as a precaution to shorting i think i wrapped the capacitor unit in electrical tape-so if it shifted and touched something on the board there would not be a problem-but i dont clearly remember this-they might have been plastic coated- 

as i too run analog youll like the change-


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hello Nick,

First, you DO have the right capacitor.

From the LGB Instructions (2X872 - I believe you have the 25872):

* "Standing sounds: *With the Multi-Train System, you hear the air pump while the loco is standing. Then you hear the feedwater pump filling the boiler.
To hear the standing sounds with analog operation, a low voltage (approx. 6.5 volts) must be maintained on the tracks. Turn the throttle to a low setting so that the loco does not yet start, but you can hear the sounds.
* Hint: *To obtain standing sounds with analog operation while the throttle is turned off, the 65011 Sound Unit Power Storage must be installed."
From the 65011 instructions: 

*"Connecting to LGB loco sound"
* Connect the Sound Unit Power Storage to the three-pole socket on the sound circuit board. This socket is located next to the four-pole connection to the main circuit board.
The cable must face outward." 



If all else fails and you are not able to work it out let me know and I will pull the circuit board from my 25872 that has the capacitors installed in it and post a photo.

It is quite a tight fit to get the capacitors in and out so I would like to avoid doing it unless necessary.

Be sure to pull the smoke stack (twist & turn and it comes out easily including the smoke unit) out before trying to remove the circuit board. 
I am sure this was discussed (including photos) somewhere in the MLS archives but I've been unable to locate detailed instructions there.


Good luck,

Jerry


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Noel Thomas:
http://silvergatedistributors.com/

Mark


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick,
This thread got me thinking that my Mikado has the same problem of the sounds stopping the moment the power is turned off. At one time, the sounds would continue for 5-10 seconds. I pulled out my board [just like the guys said above] and see that the capacitors are [supposed to be] permanently mounted and soldered to the board. While undoing the blue wire from its plug I noticed that the capacitor board was loose. In fact, it lifted right out without any effort. In the attached picture, you can see the cold solder joints that were loose. In effect, the capacitors were not being used at all. In contrast to the discussion of some 22872 boards above, there are no plugs to plug the external capacitor [65011] into *MY BOARD*. 












For Technical Support on LGB sound boards, Massoth.com is a wonderful resource.

I hope this helps. It "sounds" like you need to pull out your board and see what you have.

Jim C.


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## audi84 (Jan 13, 2008)

Mark
Thanks for the info

Noel T


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim C,

That's what I have, the 23872, but no longer lettered for the UP. However, that is excellent information and should mine ever come loose, I'll know where to start looking! 

Mark


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By pimanjc on 10/08/2008 3:01 PM
In contrast to the discussion of some 22872 boards above, there are no plugs to plug the external capacitor [65011] into. 





Hi Jim,

For what it is worth I believe it was only the original production 20872 ATSF, 21872 PRR and 23872 UP Mikados that had the original circuit board with the built in capacitors (and the original drive system).

The other versions (and possibly new releases of the first versions) had no capacitors but decoders instead. Some of the first models were returned by dealers and retrofitted with the new drive system and decoders. Some of those refitted ended up with new drive systems, factory capacitors and decoders (quite a good deal). 

Although in the middle of the model numbers the 22872 SNCF had decoders and European sound but no capacitors - just as the later 22871 SNCF that had a decoder but no capacitors and no sound. 

For whatever reasons I believe LGB only posted the instructions for the latest production versions on their web site and they had the same model numbers as the first production models so the model number alone does not guarantee anything in terms of circuit board or capacitors. The instructions which show they are for 2X872 are somewhat vague because they do not accurately describe some of the features of the 20872 ATSF, 21872 PRR and 23872 UP Mikados. 

The only Mikado problem I've ever had was one that arrived with a defective decoder but then I do not run my Mikados a great deal, not on steep grades and not with heavy loads.


Regards,

Jerry


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,

I changed my post, I forgot which model I had and thought I had the 22872, but in fact it is the 23872. 

Speaking of the SCNF mikado, I always like the look of that one. Had I been more in to Euro trains, I would have liked to have had one. Probably one of the few plastic, mainline European steam locomotives made. Seems like the sound ones are hard to find. I wonder why LGB stopped putting the sound in that one. Oh well, whatever!

Later,

Mark


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Mark,

For my purposes I pretend that the SNCF Mikado is a British loco (Blue Peter, Bluebell, Pines or Duke?) pulling the Golden Arrow (Flèche d´Or) train. OK I know the Blue Peter etc. were not Mikados but who's counting wheels?

I agree it was strange that LGB dropped the sound because for me the sound has everything to do with the difference between American and European locos and British whistles are far more European than American sounding.

Perhaps it was too expensive for LGB to make a special sound system for a single Mikado. 
Regards,


Jerry


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,
Note edit to my post above. I never intended to imply that no boards had the plug for the external capacitors. I just meant to show that the board I have has capacitors [which have a problem].
JimC.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By pimanjc on 10/09/2008 8:57 PM
Jerry,
Note edit to my post above. I never intended to imply that no boards had the plug for the external capacitors. I just meant to show that the board I have has capacitors [which have a problem].
JimC.



Hi Jim,

I understood what you were saying. I was just mentioning which boards (locos) did or did not have the built in non-removable capacitors for the benefit of anyone who might be wondering which board they might have.

Thanks to your post I will know what to look for if any of my first production Mikados lose their standing sounds.

Regards,

Jerry


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hello-

Not to get too far from the original topic, but the early production LGB #22872 SNCF Mikados had plug-in 55021 decoder and capacitors. To my knowledge, all of the #22872 locos imported through LGBoA had onboard decoders.











Best regards,
Bob


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## gtrainman (Jan 5, 2008)

There *was* a good description of the various ( three I believe) Mikado sound boards posted by James Tapper of LGB of America a long while back but I can't seem to find the thread. Perhaps it is gone with the old MLS Forum. Bummer!


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hello Nick-

Here is a schematic showing the installation point for a loco with onboard decoder and sound unit. The 65011 capacitor pack attaches to the Mikado's sound board.









Image copyright 2002 Ernst Paul Lehmann Patentwerk

The full instruction manual can be found on the Champex-Linden website:
http://www.champex-linden.de/download_lgb_bedienungsanleitungen/65011_092004.pdf

Best regards,
Bob


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Ken-

I couldn't find the James Tapper thread, either.









Here is an exploded view of the LGB #22872 SNCF Mikado. I've circled the onboard decoder, sound unit, and capacitor pack.











Here is a magnified view of the decoder, sound unit, and capacitor pack. (The resolution gets a bit rough, but you can still see all three.)










Best regards,
Bob


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2008)

Hi guys,
Been away for a few days and couldnt respond. thanks to eveyone who helped with this little project including Jerry and Jim C and all the others who posted. thank you all, its nice to know that there are people who know what there talking about when it comes to these locos. i did the mod, and 65011 is the right part, it plugged wright in on the board no muss no fuss







Jim my board seems different than yours you must have a newer version than mine, i posted some pictures at the end of this thread to show what board i have, and what the capacitors look like in case anyone else wants to do this mod in the future. it really sounds great just sitting there on the tracks making noise.... thanks again for everyones help, fine bunch of folks here,THE BEST ON THE WEB








Nick...


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2008)

OOO YAA cant have a mod without a video
DAAAAAAAAA


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By nick s. on 10/12/2008 6:41 PM
OOO YAA cant have a mod without a video
DAAAAAAAAA




Hi Nick,

Nice. VERY Nice!

Thanks for posting the video.

Jerry


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## Guest (Oct 12, 2008)

Thank you for the help Jerry, always a pleasure to talk to you on the phone..
Nick


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By nick s. on 10/12/2008 7:10 PM
Thank you for the help Jerry, always a pleasure to talk to you on the phone..
Nick



Hi Nick,

I'm glad I could help. As you said the best thing about this hobby is the many people who are willing and able to lend a helping hand. 

Most of us who now have answers to offer are only able to because someone in the past helped us when we had similar problems ourselves.

Regards,

Jerry


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