# Installing a Revolution into an NW-2



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

This is a continuation of the topic "Getting NW-2's to work with a battery car?" that I started under RC/Battery Operations.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/35/aft/111928/afv/topic/Default.aspx

When I started the topic my plan was to occasionally use one or more USAT NW-2's with a battery car as a switcher. That was before I started putting Aristo-Craft Revolutions into various Aristo diesels. I had thought I could simply use the MU connector of the NW-2's but it turned out the MU connectors are not powered so using them as MU connectors would mean taking the locos apart and rewiring them (which I was trying to avoid). With afterthought, a single NW-2 with a Revolution will be much more practical as a switcher than one dragging a battery car everywhere behind it. Of course an internal battery would work as well but my interest is with track power and, in this case, with a track powered Revolution.

My direction has now totally changed and it is my intention to put a Revolution into one NW-2 along with a Soundtraxx Sierra sound system I already own.

I had tried to find where someone else had already done this so I could copy them but I have not found any so I will post some notes as I progress with my own installation.

If anyone has actually put a Revolution into a NW-2 (even if done with battery power) feel free to jump in and add your comments. The other USAT locos such as the GP-38 (with which I have done this same conversion) are different in that they have a lot more room under the hood to work with than inside the NW-2. That is why I am starting a new topic just for the NW-2. Perhaps others could use this information for similar small interior diesels but I have no plans for any of them so I would not be able to help much with them.

So far all I have done was to remove the hood and cab from the NW-2. I started with a C&NW NW-2 that I never completely assembled out of the box so I did not have handrails etc. to bother with as I took it apart. 

There was a total of 8 screws to get the cab and hood off (6 large and 2 small). The long end has a plastic tab at the lower end that hooks on the bottom to the frame and the other end of the hood has a plastic tab at the top that hooks to the cab (I usually end up breaking one or the other off but this time I was lucky and nothing broke). The cab must be unscrewed first to release the back tab on the hood and then the end of the hood next to the cab must be raised first to release the front tab from the frame.

Unlike some USAT locos there are no screws hidden under the fuel tank that need to be removed to take the hood off.










The first challenge was to find where the Revolution will fit. I think I have that worked out.

The next challenge is finding somewhere to put the capacitor six pack. I may end up putting 6 individual capacitors in it (four in with the speaker in the fuel tank).

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Have you alredy mounted the decoder for the Revolution in this picture?


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Looks good. Is the speaker in the fuel tank? If so, I might mount the soundtraxx on the hood above the revolution if there is room with double stick tape (or hot glue). The picture is good (but my eyes aren't) so I couldn't quite tell if there is room up there or not.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By John J on 13 Jun 2010 07:23 PM 
Have you alredy mounted the decoder for the Revolution in this picture? 

No. I have not actually attached it yet. I am probably going to secure it where it is either with hot glue or high adhesive tape.










It is a little tricky to get the clearance from the front hood parts but I have 2" electrical tape holding one end and I cut away all but the connector part of a non-PNP board to support the end of a Revolution.

If my clearances work I will secure that end to the weight which will give me the ability to pull the Revolution up and off if I need to plus it will be readily accessible if necessary.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By rmcintir on 13 Jun 2010 07:55 PM 
Looks good. Is the speaker in the fuel tank? If so, I might mount the soundtraxx on the hood above the revolution if there is room with double stick tape (or hot glue). The picture is good (but my eyes aren't) so I couldn't quite tell if there is room up there or not. 

Yes, the speaker is in the fuel tank but I think the Revolution would get in the way of the Soundtraxx board if I tried to put them in the same section. The Revolution sticks up pretty high because it is sitting on top of the weight. 

My thought is to put the sound board in the center section of the hood attached to the side with 3M pull-release strips. I really like those strips because they have proven to stick well yet release without pressure or damage to components like a sound board. I have tried to move away from double stick tape because too often I have ended up wanting to remove and reposition something and found double stick tape very difficult to work with.

I have used hot glue with mixed results mainly because I don't know enough to get the right glue for the different applications. Now I pretty much just use hot glue where I can slop it on for non-critical components (or to seal a speaker).

There is a place to mount a smaller speaker in the top front of the hood. This creates a problem with mounting anything there because the surface is very irregular (to fit a speaker).

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

My friend put his speaker at the top of the hood and his Sierra in the fuel tank. He didn't have weights as he went to battery so he didn't need the lead anymore. The speaker in the hood was quite a bit louder and we both liked it more.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By rmcintir on 14 Jun 2010 10:07 AM 
My friend put his speaker at the top of the hood and his Sierra in the fuel tank. He didn't have weights as he went to battery so he didn't need the lead anymore. The speaker in the hood was quite a bit louder and we both liked it more. 

I had not considered using the speaker mount on the top because the top speaker mount is smaller than the fuel tank speaker mount plus the speakers I have are not water resistant. I am always somewhat concerned with roof mounted speakers but then I do not have much experience with them.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I now have the Sierra speaker and 4 of the Aristo single capacitors mounted in the fuel tank.










At this point I can reinstall the fuel tank and make the speaker and capacitor connections from above.

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Jerry, good call on the wet speaker but, those same holes will let in water on top of your receiver and sound. I saw a frustrated vendor try to get his QSI equipped loco running after a little rain down here in sunny/rainy FL. It misbehaved very badly and argued with him the entire time. Perhaps letting the speaker take a little rain is better than the electronics.  Actually I might just put Saran wrap over the entire thing if it didn't vibrate or screw up the sound (not tightly). 

Your placement of the caps is nice, only thing I would have done is just buy a few 3300 uF 35V caps instead of the 25 volt ones. I'm a proponent of 80/20 rule, too tight a tolerance for my blood but that has been discussed enough. They fit very nicely in the fuel tank. It looks like you have a very nice runner! I'm envious of my buddy's NW2 and now yours!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Russ,

Good point about covering the top speaker hole. I need to do that.

Actually I made one mistake (fortunately I caught it before anyone else did). I wired the caps in series when they should be in parallel.







I have fixed that plus figured where to put the RC adapter and Sierra board. I should have photos and hopefully be done tomorrow.

I am cheap which is why I am using some of those single caps that are left over from my installations. Actually I run my Revolutions a bit strangely in that I start with a 15 amp Everest which I feed to a 15 amp Aristo Controller that I use to reduce the track voltage to 18 - 20 volts (to protect the 18 volt lights in my old coaches). That way my Revolutions never get more than 20 volts and I should be safe with those 25 volt caps. Besides they are prewired and that saves me a bunch of work. I thought of chopping a six pack but decided the singles are easier to work with. I even squeezed the last two under the flaps of the heat sink (photo tomorrow).

The NW-2 is as tight as I was afraid it was going to be but I am glad I started this because I really like the looks of NW-2's and they handle R1 curves with their hook and loop couplers very nicely.

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Very good call on the lower voltage. When running track power I try not to go over 20 volts, same with battery but their charged peaks are a bit higher. Oh crap, I mentioned batteries in the wrong forum!  Have you tried fewer caps and what was the result? I'm surprised you need as many. I've used a single 3300 uF cap and done quite well on very dirty track but not with Revo. I can't believe they would behave that differently. I'll bet you can get away with fewer but you have done more installs!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I might have gotten by with fewer caps but since I have a lot left over (one from each Revolution) I figure I might as well use them when possible. Otherwise I have no idea what I would ever do with them.

Here is the Revolution Receiver:










It was a little tricky because this is where I wanted to put it but there was no support. I used a cut up non-PNP adapter to create a mount which I hot glued to the weight. Then I used a glob of hot glue to form a support for the other end (nothing fancy but it works and it is sturdy).

Here is where I put the Soundtraxx Sierra RC Adapter board:













and here are the caps under the heat sink wings:










As you can see I made all the connections with 3M telephone connectors. 

This is the Soundtraxx Sierra sound unit with the 3M Command Strip ready to be connected and installed:












And last is sort of an overall view to show how things look so far:










Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Man, that is a lot of wires. 

So you have a:
[*]Revolution receiver[*]4 "cap boards" (to better use the space)[*]Sierra sound board[*]Sierra adapter board[*]and a lot of wire
[/list]
Well, looks like it's working for you!


Greg 

p.s. what about the smoke board? Or do you run smoke?


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 Jun 2010 10:15 AM 
Man, that is a lot of wires. 

So you have a:
[*]Revolution receiver[*]4 "cap boards" (to better use the space)[*]Sierra sound board[*]Sierra adapter board[*]and a lot of wire
[/list]
Well, looks like it's working for you!


Greg 

p.s. what about the smoke board? Or do you run smoke? 



Hi Greg,

The circuit is not that much more than other systems. The main difference is the wiring to and from the Soundtraxx RC adapter board. The 3M connectors take more space than a solder splice might but I prefer them to all the soldering. 

Actually I used six caps. Two are under the heat shrink shield.

As for the lights and smoke, I don't mess with them. I just let them feed direct from the motor output of the Revolution. With the PWC bleed through the lights are dimly lit even when the throttle is turned down.

Here is what it looks like electrically:










I prefer to work from color wiring diagrams so I often make my own. 

The next install I do will be into other NW-2's with Sierra boards but without the Revolution so I will be able to just modify this circuit a bit and use it.

Normally I don't bother wiring the bell and whistle but instead leave them voltage controlled but since the Revolution comes with the wiring for it I decided to use it.

BTW there are also two non-PNP boards under the Revolution. One is cut up and in front (just) to secure the Revolution to the weight and the other is on top of the glob of hot glue at the back. An advantage of this is that the Revolution can be just lifted off if desired.

This is my first attempt so there may be a better way to do this but I am just working through it one step at a time.

Jerry


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, yes it sure looks like a lot of wires but it looks like you know what to do with them...









I've found that with the REVOLUTION, I trigger bell and whistle/horn with transmitter. However, I trigger the bell with both track magnets and transmitter. The bell then rings on timed program. If I want the bell to ring longer, I just keep holding done the #1 button. (whistle/horn) is on 2. I could latch the bell button but I prefer to do it with momentary contact. 

By using just the whistle/horn on the transmitter, I can "play" the horn as I like.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I am happy to say that the Revolution installation is complete. 

Here is the NW-2 ready to put the top down:










And here it is with the top installed:










To be honest this is not an installation I want to do again soon. Getting the hood down was a real challenge. 

One reason I post this stuff on MLS is that sometimes I come back years later to look up a previous installation of mine to figure out how I did it (I never can find old stuff on my computers and I no longer bother with making and saving paper copies). MLS has become my "storage cabinet" for old files and installations.

I almost forgot to add that I put the NW-2 on the tracks and aside from the lights, everything worked perfectly. The Sierra sound system works great (I put a GP-7 sound with Wabco horn in it) I know now that I am going to enjoy this NW-2 far more than I had expected when I bought it.

Jerry


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, 
Now that you are becoming an expert on installing REVOLUTION and you have used individual smoothing capacitors wired in parallel, did you install the inrush current limiting varistor in series with the caps?


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 15 Jun 2010 05:04 PM 
Jerry, 
Now that you are becoming an expert on installing REVOLUTION and you have used individual smoothing capacitors wired in parallel, did you install the inrush current limiting varistor in series with the caps? 

Hello Tony,

No, I thought about it (I phoned someone to find out what that black thing on the six pack is) but when I found out what it is I realized I do not know enough about electronics to know exactly what it is that I would need to buy so I figured I would leave it out at least until I learned more about it. When I checked a six pack I found that the thermistor is wired in series with the capacitors so adding it later should be easy.

I would not describe myself as an expert. All my installations except for this one were in plug and play Aristo locos. I am more of a mechanic than a technician. Others design the stuff - I just do my own installations.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I thought I was done with this topic (and project) until, while trouble shooting the lights, I put together a sort of wiring diagram of the NW-2:










As I did this I was surprised to find that while the NW-2 has the motor and track leads isolated in the trucks they then have one lead of the motor and track leads of each truck shorted together on the circuit boards. Since the Revolution (as with DCC decoders) needs the motor and track contacts to be isolated, depending on how the Revolution is installed there is a possibility that damage to the Revolution could result if the wiring was not kept isolated before going into the Revolution. 

In my case I think I am OK because I ran both of the track leads from both trucks into the Revolution track input and then the motor output to the NW-2 circuit boards.

Either way I believe it is important for everyone to realize that at least the USAT NW-2's may have a potential problem if one is not careful about how he/she installs a Revolution in one.

I do not know if this applies to newer production USAT locos.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

After rather extensive work on this I have come to the conclusion that (at least) the voltage regulator on the NW-2 lighting circuit does not like PWC and will not work properly with it. This strikes me as strange as the lights are all incandescent rather than LEDs.

I have created a sort of wiring diagram as I traced out the main circuit boards and light/motor/smoke circuit board:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/USAT/NW2-10f.jpg

Eventually I tried these things with these results:

1. The C&NW NW-2 works fine including the lights on analog track power.

2. The C&NW NW-2 works fine EXCEPT FOR THE LIGHTS when running with the Revolution. NONE of the lights came on when running under the Revolution.

3. For some strange reason, when I turned the motors off, the lights started working with the Revolution. Turn the motors back on and no lights.

4. Finally I went back to step 1 and disconnected the Revolution and once again everything works under Analog (Linear) Track Power.

5. Now I was really getting frustrated so I took a ATSF NW-2 that I had not intended to put a Revolution Receiver in and I went ahead and installed the Revolution Receiver in it only to find that...

6. the ATSF NW-2 with the Revolution Receiver in it responded the same way as the C&NW NW-2 did when it had the Revolution Receiver in it. No lights under the Revolution but the lights work without the Revolution.

7. I should add that I normally do not run smoke units with diesels and I HAVE NOT tried the smoke units either with Linear or PWC power.

At someone's suggestion I tried running the throttle up high and all three of the lights (front, back and cab) did start to come on dimly along with some flashes of brighter light. This is what makes me think it is the voltage regulator causing the problems.

The NW-2's I have are probably all of old production runs and it is possible that a newer production run might be wired differently and work with the Revolution. If anyone has an NW-2 that happens to have any different circuit boards than those in my images I would really like to see a picture of them.

Someone made a comment that newer locos from the various manufacturers (just as newer sound systems) have been designed for digital operations. It may be that these NW-2's may indicate a level of incompatibility with digital systems such as the Revolution, DCC etc. I don't know.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The voltage regulator circuits in USAT, Aristo, and others are not really designed to work from PWM. My Aristo's blink at low voltages... 

It's time to disconnect the lights and wire them directly to the Revo. In Aristo's case the voltage regulator is often a PIC microprocessor, which can go nuts on PWM. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 19 Jun 2010 10:21 AM 
The voltage regulator circuits in USAT, Aristo, and others are not really designed to work from PWM. My Aristo's blink at low voltages... 

It's time to disconnect the lights and wire them directly to the Revo. In Aristo's case the voltage regulator is often a PIC microprocessor, which can go nuts on PWM. 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

Thanks - I needed that bit of advice.

Sometimes I get so involved with trying to solve a problem that I forget that there may be obvious solutions that do not involve sorting out the problem.

Since I have never wired a Revolution Receiver to work with any lights it did not occur to me how simple it would be to just wire the lights to the Revolution Receiver.

One look at the Revolution instructions shows how easy it should be.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

It looks like I am back to square one.

I tried hooking the lights up to the Revolution and even built a circuit board for it.

Unfortunately, when I put power to it the bulbs lit but seemed way too bright. I had wondered about what the voltage for the lights from the Revolution Receiver was and apparently it is a variable output (unregulated). I measured up to 15 volts.

My thought then went to the now unused voltage regulator on the NW-2 circuit board guessing that it might have been a 5 volt regulator but when I pried it up so I could read the markings on the underside, they indicated it was a ST LM317T and without the Revolution connected I measured just under 3 volts. The LM317T is apparently a 1.2V TO 37V variable voltage regulator and USAT has apparently set it to 3 volts.

http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/stmicroelectronics/2154.pdf

I would have been happier with my original setup since the Revolution motor output would have fed variable voltage to the light circuit and the loco circuit board would have regulated that output to match the light voltages (as works very well with my USAT GP-7/9, GP-30 and GP-38's).

Now I am faced with even more work. Either I have to build a new circuit board with a voltage regulator that is compatible with the Revolution or change the lights to some compatible with the higher variable voltage from the Revolution. I have several 5V regulators. I may just try one of them and see how long the 3V lights last.

I had no idea what I was getting into with these NW-2's.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

This is what I am thinking about. 










There are the obvious questions of whether it will work with PWC (I have not made the board yet) and if the voltage may be too high for the USAT lights.

The voltage regulator is a Radio Shack 7805.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062599&cp

Does anyone see any problem with it? I did a temporary hookup and did get just under 5V out of it.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Jerry, 

It looks like the two resistors on the LM317 are 220 and 150 ohms. I think this will give you about 2 volts out. 

A word of caution, I don't know how much amperage the Revo lighting can handle therefore I don't know if the following would damage it. 

Your circuit is missing a wire to the second regulator. If the bulbs will work on 5 volts just use one regulator to get a constant 5 volt source. 

I suggest the following circuit assuming Revo purple is + ~ track voltage, yellow and white are light control going to ground: Purple wire to 7805 pin 1 (input voltage from revo). 7805 pin 3 to one side of each bulb (positive). For cab light connect the other side of the bulb to ground to always get power, may need a resistor based on first sentence. Wire front and rear bulb to yellow and white as appropriate. Wire the two lighting outputs of the Revo to provide the ground for the appropriate direction, may need a resistor based on first sentence. You could always use a LM317 instead of the 7805 but it will require a little different circuit. 

Personally, I would convert to white LEDs connected to yellow and white Revo wires with ~1k resistor and the appropriate side to purple. 

Here are some links that might be helpful: 

LM317: http://www.whatcircuits.com/lm317-calculator/
Resistor calc: http://www.dannyg.com/examples/res2/resistor.htm 
7805 circuit: http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/psu_5v.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Why not just use dropping resistors to the lights, you are running constant power to the loco, since the Revo won't run on variable DC. 

Older USAT locos run 5 volt bulbs, newer ones run track power to the bulbs. 

Note I am not talking LEDs. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

A lot of what I do is based on what I have on hand. A trip to the nearest Radio Shack cost $5 for gas and a trip to the nearest electronics store is about $25 for gas. Mail order is cheaper but I am too impatient to wait almost a week for stuff to get here.

The diodes and 5v regulators I keep on hand along with 220 ohm resistors (which is why I used two 220 ohm resistors in parallel rather than two 100 ohm resistors in series as per the Aristo instructions.

I had left a wire off on my drawing. It has been fixed. The reason for two 5v regulators was because Aristo uses a positive for the common lead and since I needed a negative for the ground of the regulator I needed two regulators to isolate the ground from the headlight and the ground from the rearlight. Then I needed the two diodes to get the constant voltage to the cab light.











I figured that since Aristo was showing double filament bulbs for headlight and rearlights I should be safe using the Revolution to power a headlight or rearlight plus the cab light.

Actually I think the cab light is burned out and if so I will probably not replace it at this time which will cut the amps down. Since I only expect to do switching in daylight the cab light would not be visible anyway. The only reason I need the lights is to tell me which direction the NW-2 is about to go in.

I had measured 2.97 volts going to the lights under track power (no PWC) with the USAT regulator so I figure I am probably close enough to use a 5 volt regulator. If that turns out too high I may just throw in a 220 ohm resistor and see what that cuts the voltage to.

It has been 45 years since I went to electronics school and 40 years since I used what I had learned so I try to keep anything I build as simple as possible.

Two 5v regulators and two diodes is about as simple to make and easy to understand for me. One trip to Radio Shack would cost me more than I have in the regulators and diodes and the chances are that Radio Shack would not have anything I wanted in stock anyway.

There may be a way to do this with a single regulator but if so I don't know it (because of the common being positive). The same is true of doing the whole thing better but with resistors first I would have to figure out what size to get and then if I guessed wrong have to make a 2nd return trip to RS. Resistors also tend to get hot and I am not comfortable figuring out the wattages I need. 

I appreciate the ideas (or I would not have asked for them). First I will probably try the regulators and diodes. Any additional comments would be appreciated. At this stage I am getting really tired of this project and I just want to get it done as quickly as possible.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Here you go my friend. This should work assuming the bulbs can take the voltage: 










As Greg said, you could put larger resistors in and skip the 5V regulator all together. 


I just noticed that the table said blue, not purple. It looked purple in the earlier picture.









Also, since only one light is lit at a time (if the cab light is burnt out) then you could just use one resistor. If the bulb is too dim, put another resistor in parallel.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Another frustrating day!

I went ahead and made the circuit with the two voltage regulators and I measured around 5 volts from both the head and rear light sockets but for some reason I was reading around 10 volts from the cab light socket.

I then connected a 24 volt light (to be safe) and it illuminated dimly so I went ahead and connected the actual loco lights only to find that they are far too dim to be useful.

Apparently the PWC allows a measurable voltage to get through the regulators but insufficient current to illuminate the lights.

I guess I'll go back to the basics and just use resistors to get the voltage down to an acceptable level.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Probably not helping a lot here, but if you read my installation of lighting on a F3 on my site, I describe the process to figure this stuff out. 

Basically you run the loco on DC, stock from the box. Then measure the voltage at the lamps, while varying the track voltage. 

If you have linear regulators (USAT do, Aristo usually does not), then you can tell what voltage gets to the lights. 

Now you know what voltage for the lights, you can calculate the appropriate dropping resistors. 

If using leds, measure the current, not the voltage in circuit, and calculate the appropriate dropping resistors. 

If you have a goofy PWM regulator for the lights like an aristo, then you have to experiment at what the real voltage is, or get a RMS reading voltmeter. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

..........or you could do it the really easy way and use a lighting output on the REVO to control a small DPDT relay. 
The ESC would simply feed the output voltage direct to the loco motors. 
The relay would simply reverse the polarity of the traction voltage supply and feed it to what were the track pick ups. The lights would stay constantly lit and follow direction change.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 22 Jun 2010 07:30 PM 
you have to experiment at what the real voltage is, or get a RMS reading voltmeter. 

Regards, Greg 

I have a couple of RMS voltmeters but I don't know what RMS is or how to use that part of the voltmeters. When it gets beyond volts, amps and ohms it is more complicated than I want to mess with.

All I want from the **** lights is to just come on bright enough so I can see when the forward and reverse lights are lit. At this point it has been far more trouble than it is worth and I am going to just try to find some resistors that will keep the lights illuminated without burning them out and then close up the NW-2 once and for all (I hope).

This is the sort of complication that I ran into with DCC (in different ways) and what keeps me with plain old analog track power where everything works without having to take anything apart. 

I like the Revolution because of the PNP simplicity of it. When an installation gets complicated I go back to track power. Thankfully I only intended to convert a single NW-2 to the Revolution.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 22 Jun 2010 08:01 PM 
..........or you could do it the really easy way and use a lighting output on the REVO to control a small DPDT relay. 
The ESC would simply feed the output voltage direct to the loco motors. 
The relay would simply reverse the polarity of the traction voltage supply and feed it to what were the track pick ups. The lights would stay constantly lit and follow direction change. 


Hopefully two resistors will work and if they do I will be done.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Deleted


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*I am going to close out this topic* as I am not going to make any further attempts to get the lights working on this NW-2 running with the Revolution.

The Revolution and the Sierra sound systems work. Getting the lights to work has turned out to be far more trouble than it is worth to me. I have reached a point that I don't want to even think about any other possible ways to make the lights work. The only thing that I might be interested in at this point would be to hear from someone who has actually successfully installed a Revolution into their NW-2 and got the lights to work without putting any significant effort into it. 
Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, you have put significantly more effort into connecting everything else. The light bulbs are really simple, but honestly, you made it way more complex than it needs to be. 

With all the wiring you have done to connect sound systems with the revolution, why not just rewire the lights by taking the headlight wires and adding a resistor? 

Anyway, sorry you are frustrated. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 23 Jun 2010 08:21 PM 
With all the wiring you have done to connect sound systems with the revolution, why not just rewire the lights by taking the headlight wires and adding a resistor? 

Anyway, sorry you are frustrated. 

Regards, Greg 



Hi Greg,

I tried that. It did not work. That is when I decided I was not going to put anymore effort into it.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Regarding USAT locos other than the NW-2's, I have installed Revolutions into GP-38's and a PA-1. 

With the GP-38's (Sierra sound with Sierra adapters) everything including the lights work fine.

With the PA-1 (Aristo/PH Hobbies sound) everything works except the lights. 

I have not tried to trouble shoot the lighting on the PA-1 but I suspect it is similar to the NW-2 in that both have incandescent lights while the GP-38 has LED's. It may be that the USAT locos with LED lighting may work with the Revolution but USAT locos with incandescent lights may not. I cannot state this for a fact one way or the other but if anyone is successfully running USAT locos with the original incandescent lights and the lights work it would be appreciated if it would be mentioned here. I am mainly concerned with factory original lighting for myself but others may be interested in lighting modifications.

Jerrys RR


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have, it was easy. I unplugged them from the board, added appropriate resistors and I'm fine. But, I already gave my suggestions on how to proceed. 

Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05 Aug 2010 08:25 PM 
I have, it was easy. I unplugged them from the board, added appropriate resistors and I'm fine. But, I already gave my suggestions on how to proceed. 

Greg 

Hi Greg,

I appreciate your suggestion and I would encourage others to follow your suggestions. 

For me the problem is too new and I have too many other priorities that I do not want to bother with it at this time. For now I will put my few remaining Revolutions into locos that are completely compatible with them and eventually I will think about those where I ran into problems.

My focus is on plug and play type installations. If I have to figure out something I'd rather sit back and let someone else figure it out. Eventually someone will come back and say to use a XXX ohm resistor for a PA-1 or a XXX ohm resistor for a NW-2. Then I may do something further. I am a great procrastinator.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

For whatever reasons I am working on putting a Revolution into a different NW-2. The first installation works including the Sierra sound system but the loco lights do not.

As I work through this so far I have found:

R1 capacitor is 150 ohms
R2 capacitor is 220 ohms
The regulated voltage going to the lights is 3 volts DC 

The LM317T voltage regulator is of a different brand than the 1st NW-2 had.

Under track power the NW-2 works perfectly.

Under a Train Engineer in Linear Mode the NW-2 works perfectly.

Under a Train Engineer in PWC Mode the lights do not work.

Under the Revolution (PWC) the lights do not work.

This is approximately the circuit USA appears to be using:










Jerry


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 22 Jun 2010 08:01 PM 
..........or you could do it the really easy way and use a lighting output on the REVO to control a small DPDT relay. 
The ESC would simply feed the output voltage direct to the loco motors. 
The relay would simply reverse the polarity of the traction voltage supply and feed it to what were the track pick ups. The lights would stay constantly lit and follow direction change. 

Hello Tony!
I would like to follow up on your suggestion of using a DPDT relay.
Is there a suitable relay listed on the All Electronics web site?
http://www.allelectronics.com/ 
If so, could you provide the stock number and a small diagram on how it should be wired?

Thanks!


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Jerry - It sounds like the input to the voltage regulator is connected to the motor output. Your input circuit should be track voltage, connected to the input of a full-wave bridge rectifier. Output of the rectifier feeds the circuit you have shown. You may also need to increase the size of the input capacitor.


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 12 Aug 2010 02:47 PM 
Jerry - It sounds like the input to the voltage regulator is connected to the motor output. Your input circuit should be track voltage, connected to the input of a full-wave bridge rectifier. Output of the rectifier feeds the circuit you have shown. You may also need to increase the size of the input capacitor. 

Hi Del,

I had expected to find track voltage at the input and perhaps PWC was confusing my meter. I did not want to play around too much because I probably would have shorted and blown something. If anything the voltage I was measuring was close to the regulated output voltage of the LM317T.

I had tried making a schematic of the USA circuit but never did quite figure it out. I reached a point that I would have had to remove components to be sure I was getting it right so I stopped. Everything in the circuit is USA factory original so I was only working with what USA had designed into the NW-2.

At one point I tried taking a short cut just using the black and red (track leads) from the frame circuit boards but when I applied (analog DC) power to them - nothing happened. No lights, no nothing - so I quit before I fried something.

Using the schematic from a LM317T manufacturer I figured out what had to be the right place for the C1 capacitor. It is obvious that USA does not have any capacitors anywhere on the board.

On the input capacitor I tried 220uF, 470uF and even 3300uF. I am left wondering if I was going the wrong way and might have been better using what the chip manufacturer had suggested: 0.1μF disc or 1μF solid tantalum input bypass capacitors but I did not have anything smaller than the 220uF. 
Another option would have been to start playing with output capacitors but by then I had tired of the project. The truth is that I was playing with electronic circuits that I only partially understand and eventually I reached a point that I decided to leave things to those who know what they are doing.

In the end I accepted defeat. This was too easy not to try it but perhaps the new Aristo PWC filter may be able to handle the current for both a Sierra sound system and the NW-2 filament lights.

Some days the dragon wins.

Jerry


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Paul Norton on 12 Aug 2010 02:46 PM 
Posted By TonyWalsham on 22 Jun 2010 08:01 PM 
..........or you could do it the really easy way and use a lighting output on the REVO to control a small DPDT relay. 
The ESC would simply feed the output voltage direct to the loco motors. 
The relay would simply reverse the polarity of the traction voltage supply and feed it to what were the track pick ups. The lights would stay constantly lit and follow direction change. 

Hello Tony!
I would like to follow up on your suggestion of using a DPDT relay.
Is there a suitable relay listed on the All Electronics web site?
http://www.allelectronics.com/ 
If so, could you provide the stock number and a small diagram on how it should be wired?

Thanks!



Hi Paul.

This is the best that I can help you with. # RELAY-1a[/b] It is already mounted and will solve the problem instantly.

Instructions on how to wire it up are here: # RELAY-1a instructions[/b]


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

As an update - I have a couple of NW-2's (including the one that led to my starting this topic) that are now on their way to Aristo-Craft where the Aristo techs will check them out to determine the best way to fit a Revolution in them including getting the lights to work.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, I sure had an easier time putting a QSI in a NW2. I guess the revolution is not the answer for everyone! 

Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

It really boils down to the lights. The voltage regulator USA used on the NW-2's apparently does not like PWC. Apparently a lot of people just put LED's into the USA locos and are quite happy with their results. In my case I was trying to find a way to work with the voltage regulator and the original lights.

As others have brought up it is not just the Revolution that can benefit from some customized installations.

CVP has AirWire drop in decoders for USA locos:

http://www.cvpusa.com/doc_center/dropins_flyer.pdf

but apparently even they do not have a drop in installation for a NW-2.

For my purposes plain old analog track power would work just fine with my NW-2's and is how I will run most of my NW-2's. I'm just not willing to put too much money for sound & a decoder into an inexpensive starter set loco that I use infrequently.

Whatever results Aristo comes up with for the NW-2 will likely benefit owners of other USA locos with similar lighting circuits who may be interested in putting Revolutions into them. So far the only difficulties I've run into have been with the lights on the NW-2's and PA/PB-1's.

For me this PWC vs voltage regulator thing is more of a nuisance than a problem. If I was really serious about putting a Revolution into the NW-2's I'd have followed others and installed LED's. 

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 29 Aug 2010 02:02 PM 

For me this PWC vs voltage regulator thing is more of a nuisance than a problem. If I was really serious about putting a Revolution into the NW-2's I'd have followed others and installed LED's. 

Jerry

I wound up with an NW-2 the other day from Ebay, still waiting on delivery. Auction didn't meet the reserve but the guy said I could have it for what I offered. I may try your experiment with my receiver to see how it works out driving the lighting. In the end I'll be using LEDs but you have me interested darn it! My GP7/9 seemed to drive the lights fine though. In the end I'll probably go batteries too. I understand not wanting to change locos but it's not my style.







Batteries, sound, lighting and my own back-EMF multi-train RC. Keeps me happy!


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Russ,

I think you will really like the NW-2. It is true that the driver gears often split (I'd bet yours will have at least one split gear) but I still run them with the split gears since they are too light to pull many cars anyway.


It will be interesting to see what Aristo comes up with for the two NW-2's that I sent to them.

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm a little bummed to hear that the NW-2 has mechanical problems! I have a GP7/9 and it performs flawlessly. My buddy's NW-2 hasn't hinted at a gear problem. 

My Bachmann 2-8-0 has drive problems (love it anyway) which I will eventually fix but USA! 

I expect this from China but not USA (wiping tear from eye...) 

Don't burst my bubble on USA (for at least a couple minutes)


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By rmcintir on 31 Aug 2010 07:00 PM 
I'm a little bummed to hear that the NW-2 has mechanical problems! I have a GP7/9 and it performs flawlessly. My buddy's NW-2 hasn't hinted at a gear problem. 

My Bachmann 2-8-0 has drive problems (love it anyway) which I will eventually fix but USA! 

I expect this from China but not USA (wiping tear from eye...) 

Don't burst my bubble on USA (for at least a couple minutes) 
OK. I'm a narrow gauge guy. But it never even once occurred to me that USA trains were actually made in the USA. Are they?


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 31 Aug 2010 07:12 PM 
OK. I'm a narrow gauge guy. But it never even once occurred to me that USA trains were actually made in the USA. Are they? 

It is my understanding that most if not all USA locos are made in China. I believe the same manufacturer makes a lot of both Aristo and USA stuff but apparently not together (different production lines or something). I could be wrong.

Surprisingly neither the Hudson or Big Boy instructions or shipping (cardboard) boxes clearly say anything about Made in China).

I do have some old USA (and also some old LGB) boxcars that are clearly marked "Made in USA."

The only USA loco handy (non metal) is a NW-2. I turned it over but did not see anything about where it was made. I would be very surprised if it was not made in China. 
None of this is based on any sort of insider information. I only know what I have read and heard.


Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By rmcintir on 31 Aug 2010 07:00 PM 
expect this from China but not USA (wiping tear from eye...) 

Don't burst my bubble on USA (for at least a couple minutes) 

Ummmmmmmmmmmm

Russ, you posted at 7:00 PM and it is now 8:51 PM so you have had your couple of minutes... 

POP goes the bubble.




























I discovered the split gear problem when I was trying to find a way to put traction tires on my NW-2's. Greg has a write up about the split gears on his website at http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips-mainmenu-35/usat-motive-power-mainmenu-36/split-axles-mainmenu-164

Once I read Greg's info I looked at a NW-2 and found both motor blocks had a split gear and I happened to have a brand new motor block (never installed) which I checked and found one of the gears in it was also split.

So far I have not done anything about the split gears and the NW-2's are running but I know sometime I will have to do something about it. 
Still, I love the little NW-2's despite their faults (including not pulling much weight).


Sorry,

Jerry 
PS I picked up the USA UP Extended Vision Caboose and it clearly says Made in China on the bottom.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

I knew it would go pop... 

I did verify this on my own GP7/9. At least we're funding China's nuclear navy, for many years too...


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Regrettably there is only one manufacturer (that I know of) who can claim their trains are *Made in the USA* and that is Hartland.

*Hartland specializes in high-quality, affordable G-Scale Locomotives and Rolling Stock: coaches, freight cars and cabooses. We also manufacture brass and aluminum track and other accessories for the Garden Railroader. HLW equipment is designed to run on #1 gauge track and is compatible with other G-Scale trains and track accessories.*

* We are very proud to say that HLW products are American made; Designed, manufactured, assembled and packaged in LaPorte, Indiana! Because of this, these trains are of the highest quality and are less expensive than inferior imports.*

* Quality is evident in every aspect of this equipment's design. The engines are powered by industrial-grade, high-torque, long-life DC electric motors. The bodies of the engines and cars are injection molded with UV-stabilized ABS plastic. This makes them durable and resistant to the damage caused by sunlight.*

* Superior design can be found in even the smallest of details! Where other manufacturers chose to use plastic on small detail parts (such as boiler hand rails, whistles, safety valves, and even flag pole pockets), HLW uses solid brass decoration on many of our locomotives. Electrical pickup from the tender wheels aids smooth operation. Crisp and detailed lettering add a high class touch. *

*HLW is true enjoyable quality--**American-made!*

http://www.h-l-w.com/index.html


I have a few of their products and I like them.

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

I do own Heartland. I wish they would move into more accurate modeling for their steam locomotives. They are reliable and fun to operate. I may need to get an interurban.


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By rmcintir on 31 Aug 2010 08:01 PM 
I knew it would go pop... 

I did verify this on my own GP7/9. At least we're funding China's nuclear navy, for many years too... 



Funny how it is now just plain China. It used to be Communist Red China. The only thng that has changed is a couple of insignificant words being left out.









I'm every bit as guilty as everyone else regarding buying everything made in China. I wish it was not so but it is.

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

At least some of the controllers are made in the USA, Del's and mine! Don't mean to slight anyone, I just don't know of any others because I don't need to buy anything else.


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By rmcintir on 31 Aug 2010 08:17 PM 
I do own Heartland. I wish they would move into more accurate modeling for their steam locomotives. They are reliable and fun to operate. I may need to get an interurban. 



When they came out with the Chicago Aurora and Elgin Interurbans I was hooked. The CA&E used to run by our house and school. Hartland told me how to MU a couple of them just like the original ones ran.

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 31 Aug 2010 08:28 PM 
Posted By rmcintir on 31 Aug 2010 08:17 PM 
I do own Heartland. I wish they would move into more accurate modeling for their steam locomotives. They are reliable and fun to operate. I may need to get an interurban. 



When they came out with the Chicago Aurora and Elgin Interurbans I was hooked. The CA&E used to run by our house and school. Hartland told me how to MU a couple of them just like the original ones ran.

Jerry
Very nice, send me a picture, would love to see them connected in a row!


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

BTW, there was a time that USA Trains were made in the USA. Here is photographic proof from 1993:










It's actually on the box, like it was a permanent thing. My how times have changed.


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

My NW-2 came with light bulbs that ran directly from the track voltage. When I put an AirWire receiver, P-5 sound and a 14.4v and a 4500 MAH battery in my NW-2, I hooked the lamps directly to the lamp output on the decoder and it works just fine. I never even had to take the cab apart.


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By rmcintir on 31 Aug 2010 08:28 PM Very nice, send me a picture, would love to see them connected in a row!


I think they may have been discontinued but here are a few pictures:










The real thing










The Hartland ad










Hartland also had a blue one (which I don't have)









I had forgotten that I put decoders into them











Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

*NW-2 - REVOLUTION UPDATE

*My two NW-2's have returned from Aristo-Craft and I am happy to say that all of the lights on the C&NW NW-2 (the one with the Revolution installed) now work with the Revolution (with PWC). The lights not only work but they have directional control (headlight on in forward etc.).

According to Navin the Aristo-Craft engineer was able to "fix" the NW-2 to work with the Revolution by the addition of two capacitors to the NW-2 circuit.

I do not have the details as to which capacitors or where they were wired in (and I don't want to take my NW-2 apart to find out) but I am sure that Aristo-Craft will be providing the information on how to make the NW-2's compatible with the Revolution and its PWC.


I have posted the above on the Aristo-Craft Forum as well under Non-Aristo-Craft Revo Installations [/b]

So far Lewis has replied: 
*The problem seems to have been a large drop from 18v to 3v for the NW-2 lights and the part used to make that drop was not a typical choice.*


*W**hat we did for Jerry was to use 2 different caps.*

*220UF 35V elect NHG Radials

and

220UF 16V Elect NHG Radials 











*Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

For those of us (like me) who like pictures this may help (assuming I got it right):


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, looks like they put filtering capacitors on both sides of the circuit... the track input (the higher voltage), and the output, probably after the regulator... if you can show a picture of the other side of the board, I can confirm the circuitry. 

You can see one trace on the right hand side which apparently feeds the "center" between the 2 bottom diodes. The other track input must be on the other side of the board and feed the center of the top 2 diodes. The track inputs must be in the upper right corner in the small white box with "RAIL" beneath it. 

The output of the full wave bridge rectifier (this takes arbitrary track polarity and turns it into a known DC polarity) is the outer "ends" of the 2 sets of diodes, the left end is positive, the right end is negative. 

So the bottom capacitor filters the output of the full wave bridge, and thus the input of the voltage regulator (which must be the 3 terminals) that show just below the motor and smoke switches. 

The right capacitor appears to be on the output of the voltage regulator IC (assuming I was right that the 3 terminals are the regulator). 

Actually, it is always recommended to have filtering just like this, so it's surprising (as Navin noted) that these filter capacitors were not in the circuit originally. Good catch Navin. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 22 Sep 2010 09:44 AM 
Jerry, looks like they put filtering capacitors on both sides of the circuit... the track input (the higher voltage), and the output, probably after the regulator... if you can show a picture of the other side of the board, I can confirm the circuitry. 

Regards, Greg 


Posted By Jerrys RR on 12 Aug 2010 10:22 AM 

For whatever reasons I am working on putting a Revolution into a different NW-2. The first installation works including the Sierra sound system but the loco lights do not.

As I work through this so far I have found:

R1 resister is 150 ohms
R2 resister is 220 ohms
The regulated voltage going to the lights is 3 volts DC 

The LM317T voltage regulator is of a different brand than the 1st NW-2 had.

Under track power the NW-2 works perfectly.

Under a Train Engineer in Linear Mode the NW-2 works perfectly.

Under a Train Engineer in PWC Mode the lights do not work.

Under the Revolution (PWC) the lights do not work.

This is approximately the circuit USA appears to be using:










Jerry






Hi Greg,

It looks like the Aristo engineer came up with a variation of the above circuit but unlike my circuit, his works.




















Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, you missed the other capacitor drawing, on the output, too small to read the value, just curious, what value is it?... also he used a big cap on the input, that means that capacitor is trying to filter ALL of the power sourced to the rails or this loco... not effective... a .1 cap as most manufacturers recommend will do the deal. but if this board is fed from the motor output of a decoder/driver, then instead of getting constant power, it is getting pulsed power, and the larger cap is going to filter the input to the regulator IC which does NOT want pulsed power as an input! 

A .1 cap in addition would still be a good idea, it will kill noise... the big electrolytic will not... what size is the "output" cap? 

Basically, they filtered the input and the output to try to average out the DC voltage... 

Greg 

Update: I went back to the beginning of the thread, you state you are running the NW2 "circuit boards" from the motor output. OK, so you are feeding pulsed DC (PWM) into a analog series regulator integrated circuit. That, of course, made it nuts. By putting a large filter capacitor on the input, you sort of filter the voltage so it stops going to zero and the regulator seems to stop going nuts. Of course, you are also "messing with" the signal going to the motor.

If you were using a modern decoder with back EMF control, this would most likely interfere with "reading" the BEMF signal, and affect motor control. Since the Revolution has no BEMF capability, it's no problem. Be aware though that this modification may cause problems if you ever use a BEMF decoder in this loco.... you will most likely have to pull out the first capacitor.

Regards, Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

*W**hat we did for Jerry was to use 2 different caps.*

*220UF 35V elect NHG Radials

and

220UF 16V Elect NHG Radials 








* 
I had tried multiple variations of capacitors (single and double) following the various manufacturer's schematics and with varying uF caps. This is a work in progress but figuring out the USA wiring proved more complicated than I had anticipated:











http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/je...W2-10e.jpg










The fact is that I was guessing at what I was doing but the Aristo engineer went beyond the manufacturer's schematic and put a cap across the diodes. The funny thing is that I had tried 220uF caps - not because I knew what I was doing but simply because I happened to have some handy. That's the difference between the Aristo engineer who understood what he was doing and me who was just trying stuff based on a vague idea of what I was doing. 

I believe these are the capacitors I will need to try some additional conversions:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P5552-ND

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P5530-ND 

I am unfamiliar with the engineer's symbol for the capacitors and I am guessing that the common leads to the diode are the negative sides of the caps.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If the 220 works on the input side, I would not mess with it. I would observe it on a regular basis though, since there is no isolation circuit to protect it from trying to filter the motor voltage/current (!!).. 
(theoretically, the pulsed DC could make it mad) 


The output side will definitely be fine.. 

yes, absolutely on the markings! The electronic symbol usually has polarity on it.. the capacitor itself will often have a stripe down one side, with a bunch of minus signs embedded in that. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

If you put a largish value regular polarised electrolytic capacitor across the motor drive circuit without a bridge rectifier in between, it will not only cause the output Fets to overheat, it will go bang when the polarity is reversed. 
So far I don't recall reading that the cap used on the head end is non polarised? I assume it has not gone bang. So, to me that means the cap is behind a bridge rectifier.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, did not look at the second picture in the last post by Jerry... that's not how it is wired... the circuit is: 

track power > bridge rectifier > 35v cap on the input to the regulator > regulator > 16v cap on the output of the regulator > on to the lights. 

I'm at work, so I will look more carefully at home... I need to see if the cap can "discharge" back into the motor drive circuit... I assumed that before, but I was not thinking it through. 

Looking at it, this cannot happen, the cap can only be charged from the connection provided. 

So I was wrong and Jerry's last schematic is wrong.. the "input" to the bridge rectifer is in the "middle" of the 4 diodes, the ends of the diode "array" is the output. The cap is in the right place, but the track feeds need to be moved in that picture. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

I knew my drawing was inaccurate which is why I said "This is a work in progress." I had started with an earlier drawing based on the schematic on its right and I had started to work in the Aristo schematic but got a headache and quit for now.

Since the Aristo fix worked I am no longer in a hurry to put the work into redrawing everything - at least until after I get some capacitors ordered. I have at least a dozen different drawings/photos I had been developing to try different circuits.

Jerry


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 22 Sep 2010 05:43 PM I have at least a dozen different drawings/photos I had been developing to try different circuits.

We'll make an electrical engineer out of you yet!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not criticism Jerry, just accuracy, and better understanding. Anyway, I found my mistakes. 

You should be in good shape. Should you wish to do this again, put a .1 mfd disk cap in parallel with the C1 your have. The radically different values have radically different effects on the circuit, both will help, neither will do the job of the other. 

Anyway, problem solved, right? 

Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 22 Sep 2010 08:12 PM 

Anyway, problem solved, right? 

Greg 

True the problem is resolved but what still bugs me is that the circuit is still not clear to me. I KNOW the diodes create a bridge rectifier but I still have not come up with a working schematic for this circuit. The bridge rectifier in particular is not clear to me (I know how it works but I do not see how this one is part of the circuit with reference to the capacitors. I have a mental block here somewhere.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Take the circuit you have drawn (the schematic, not the pictorial, in your last post...

Put a full wave bridge before... connect the track inputs to the fw bridge input (usually called the AC input)

Take the plus output of the fw bridge and feed it to the input of the regulator and C1 (make C1 the 220 35v electrolytic you got)

take the minus output of the fw bridge and connect it to ground...

that corrects the schematic. 


to correct your pictorial, just make the track leads go to the 2 pads in the "middle" of the diodes, if you trace the circuit from where the wires connect to the board, you will see that's where it goes... everything else is right 


that corrects your pictorial

conceptually, the FW bridge takes track power, which can reverse polarity, and "converts" it to a fixed polarity, then there is a filter cap to smooth out the pulses, since you are feeding pulsed power into the track inputs.

this "fixed polarity, filtered pulsed DC" is now put into a series regulator, which has it's voltage set by the 2 resistors. the output of the regulator is filtered with another cap, and that filtered output feeds the lights. 


Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

As a follow up to this topic it has taken me this long to get around to running the C&NW NW-2 that Aristo-Craft had modified to get the lights to work with the Revolution. I became sidetracked as I tackled the expansion of my caboose layout including replacing all the brass track and turnouts with Aristo-Craft stainless steel ones but that expansion is finished to the point that I have started to use the C&NW NW-2 along with the B&O (now MoPac) FA-1/FB-1; MoPac GP-38 and Rock Island GP-40 (all with Revolutions installed in them).

I never took the NW-2 apart to see for sure just what Aristo had done to make the lights work with the Revolution but I can report that all the locomotives are working very nicely with the Revolutions installed in them.

Many thanks to Aristo-Craft for fixing the NW-2 when I was unable to do it myself.

Jerry


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Navin does great work Doesn't he, He's a great asset to Aristo for sure....................


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's cool that Navin would work on a non-Aristo loco... on the Aristo forum, you can be shot for mentioning USAT! 

Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulleti...hp?t=16136


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Whoopee ...


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 16 May 2011 07:14 PM 
Whoopee ... 
HE HE HE ...................


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, read that, but quite a number of threads have been locked since then when talking about non-Aristo stuff. Would not be the first time there were contradictions on the forum. 

But I was commenting on Aristo actually working on a USAT loco. He's a good guy and does what he can. I was just surprised it was allowed in. 

Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 May 2011 08:43 PM 
Yep, read that, but quite a number of threads have been locked since then when talking about non-Aristo stuff. Would not be the first time there were contradictions on the forum. 

But I was commenting on Aristo actually working on a USAT loco. He's a good guy and does what he can. I was just surprised it was allowed in. 

Greg 

Because he monitors his forum, Lewis was aware of the difficulties I was having with installing a Revolution into my USA NW-2. It was at Lewis' suggestion that I sent a couple of my NW-2's to Aristo to have Aristo technicians look at them and modify them. Of course it was at my risk as they would not have had replacement parts if something not manufactured by Aristo-Craft was damaged. The discussions about the NW-2 and other USA products involved nothing beyond finding ways to make them compatible with Aristo-Craft Revolutions. As far as I know USA does not have a forum.

As a former manufacturer's rep myself it is fully understandable (to me anyway) why Lewis would be highly protective of the Aristo-Craft brand of products and intolerant of criticisms of Aristo-Craft and or its products on the Aristo-Craft forum.


Aristo-Craft Trains Forum Rules[/b]October 28, 2006[/b]Registration to this forum is free! However, we do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. Although the administrators and moderators of the Aristo-Craft Trains Forum will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. This bulletin board is for the use of Aristo-Craft customers to seek technical support for Aristo-Craft products. We also encourage board members to converse with their fellow railroaders from around the world. However, we have a few basic rules which we request that you follow:- Posts that involve foul language, personal attacks, and other language which is deemed inappropriate is strictly prohibited.- We require the use of real names for your User ID. Aliases are not acceptable.*- Discussion of other manufacturers is not allowed on our bulletin board.*- For Sale / Wanted posts are prohibited. - No excessive board spamming! No posting to increase your post count.- No advertising of web sites for monetary gain.- Signature size should be at around 200x200 pixels, preferably 100x100, and under 20 kilobytes. By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.*The owners of the Aristo-Craft Trains Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason. People who break these rules may be subject to suspension or banning from this board. *



Back when I owned and moderated the LGB Family Forum I based the forum rules on the Aristo-Craft Forum rules and advised Lewis Polk that I was doing so in case he might have had any objection. I gave the forum back to the individual who had created it when LGB of America closed.

If anything I was more restrictive in the LGB Family Forum Rules. 


Welcome to the LGB Family Forum. 

*This forum intended to support the owners of LGB Brand products everywhere.* Its purpose is to assist them in building, operating and expanding their LGB layouts. 

*It is also for assistance in installing and operating LGB Brand products in non-LGB equipment and layouts. *

*To a lesser extent non-LGB brands that are compatible with LGB electronics may be discussed when they are being used directly in or with LGB equipment - provided that they are not promoted as superior to LGB brand products. Technical differences can be discussed provided they are not presented in such a way as to suggest LGB brand products are of a lower quality. Any incompatibilities with LGB products must be clearly stated. *

*Discussions should remain primarily focused on the use of LGB brand products. This is to eliminate the "my brand is better than your brand" type of arguments. *

This forum appreciates the past support for LGB in America that has been provided by LGB of America. 

Welcome and thank you for joining us. 

Note: The LGB Family Forum is provided to offer a place for LGB owners to communicate with each other about their LGB products even if the official LGB Club Forum is once again available.[/i] Please note: As an anti-spam measure, messages from new members are moderated and their delivery may be delayed up to a few days depending on my schedule.


As with Lewis and the Aristo-Craft Forum, there were a few individuals who insisted on repeatedly pushing the limits of the rules of the LGB Family Forum so at times I ended up reluctantly having to moderate their posts. It is the responsibility of those participating in a forum to abide by the rules or to leave and find other forums with rules more to their liking - or to start their own forums.

There is a huge difference between public forums that are not affiliated with specific companies and or brands and forums that were created for the specific purpose of promoting and supporting specific brands and companies.

It is understandable that brand specific forums would be intolerant about negative comments regarding those brands.

*I think it was Shad who once described the owners of Forums as "Benevolent Dictators." I think that is a perfect description of their responsibility and authority.*

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I did not want to get into the specifics of showing where there is quite a difference between the published rules and what actually happens. 

Just making the point that it's cool that there was no problem working on a USAT loco at Aristo HQ. 

Threads have been closed and locked on much more minor infractions. 

My statement was a positive about Aristo. 

Greg


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## WR railroad (Aug 14, 2011)

Hi, my name is Steve and I just signed into the website and I am interested is adding the Revolution receiver into my USA NW-2 loco. Have you had any luck with the wiring. Also, I can get the word part of the messages, but all I get is a blank box for any type of pictures. Thanks for any help....Steve


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd suggest following the extensive thread on the Aristo forum:

*http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulleti...hp?t=16136* 


Where the thread starter continues the topic at great length and detail.

The wiring is actually simple, but you can read that thread for all the trials and tribulations that were encountered.

Also the thread starter seems to be inactive here and active there on that forum, so if your experiences are not covered in the 11 pages on that thread, he most likely would respond there.

Regards, Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

What happened to all the pictures?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I just checked, some previous posts reference: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Hartland/CAE Red.JPG 

The subdirectory: Hartland is no longer on this server, in fact there are very few pictures total. 

I have no explanation other than the files are no longer there on the mls file space... 

Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 14 Aug 2011 04:50 PM 
I just checked, some previous posts reference: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Hartland/CAE Red.JPG 

The subdirectory: Hartland is no longer on this server, in fact there are very few pictures total. 

I have no explanation other than the files are no longer there on the mls file space... 

Greg 

Perhaps the photos are no longer there because the member paid $200 for the right to have that space to store his photos. 

Perhaps the fact that someone gave himself permission to publicly post the URL of those photos is indicative of why those photos can no longer be found there.

Perhaps the member will eventually return and perhaps the member will put the photos back when he returns.

Perhaps the member has already responded by PM to Steve.


If someone wants photos, there are lots of photos to be found here:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/gregelmassian/


No explanation is required and none is offered.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 14 Aug 2011 09:18 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 14 Aug 2011 04:50 PM 
I just checked, some previous posts reference: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Hartland/CAE Red.JPG 

The subdirectory: Hartland is no longer on this server, in fact there are very few pictures total. 

I have no explanation other than the files are no longer there on the mls file space... 

Greg 

Perhaps the photos are no longer there because the member paid $200 for the right to have that space to store his photos. 

Perhaps the fact that someone gave himself permission to publicly post the URL of those photos is indicative of why those photos can no longer be found there.

Perhaps the member will eventually return and perhaps the member will put the photos back when he returns.

Perhaps the member has already responded by PM to Steve.

No explanation is required and none is offered.


What a joke. Pictures went away BEFORE "someone" posted the URL. That is public. Go to your post, quote your post, press the HTML button. You can then see the URL directory. Maybe you'd best PM Shad instead of Steve. Here I was hoping. I'll go find my rock again.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 14 Aug 2011 10:07 PM 
What a joke. Pictures went away BEFORE "someone" posted the URL. That is public. Go to your post, quote your post, press the HTML button. You can then see the URL directory. Maybe you'd best PM Shad instead of Steve. Here I was hoping. I'll go find my rock again.


Come on TOC,

Is your memory that bad?

Have you really forgotten that it was little ole YOU who is responsible for the time limit for us being able to edit our posts because it was YOU who was not only deleting ALL of YOUR photos but also ALL of YOUR POSTS that you had ever put up on MLS???

You gotta be kidding - remember YOU TOLD ME AS YOU WERE DOING IT!!!

Cheers and Bye Bye,

Gee. NOW I remember why I am taking a vacation from MLS.









Jerry


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 14 Aug 2011 10:15 PM 
Posted By Curmudgeon on 14 Aug 2011 10:07 PM 
What a joke. Pictures went away BEFORE "someone" posted the URL. That is public. Go to your post, quote your post, press the HTML button. You can then see the URL directory. Maybe you'd best PM Shad instead of Steve. Here I was hoping. I'll go find my rock again.


Come on TOC,

Is your memory that bad?

Have you really forgotten that it was little ole YOU who is responsible for the time limit for us being able to edit our posts because it was YOU who was not only deleting ALL of YOUR photos but also ALL of YOUR POSTS that you had ever put up on MLS???

You gotta be kidding - remember YOU TOLD ME AS YOU WERE DOING IT!!!

Cheers and Bye Bye,

Gee. NOW I remember why I am taking a vacation from MLS.









Jerry


Doesn't answer the question Jerry, and all you're doing is trying to obfuscate the issue.....and do a "play the wounded party" bit.
Doing something, then blaming it on actions shown to have occurred later, does't work.
My memory is fine. Yeah, I pulled my stuff. And I have absolutely no intention of ever putting anything up on this forum again for the site owner to claim ownership of. Read "the rules".
Did you ever wonder why so many folks are quoting you?
You can delete your stuff, but not what's quoted.
This is a good read.....and enjoy your vacation.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*in·dic·a·tive*   /ɪnˈdɪk







tɪv/  Show Spelled[in-*dik*-_uh_-tiv]  Show IPA 
*adjective * 1. showing, signifying, or pointing out; expressive or suggestive (usually followed by _of _): _behavior indicative of mental disorder. _

2. _Grammar _. noting or pertaining to the mood of the verb used for ordinary objective statements, questions, etc., as the verb _plays _ in _John plays football. _Compare imperative ( def. 3 ) , subjunctive ( def. 1 ) . 






I was not aware that anyone was quoting me. I cannot imagine why anyone would be wasting their time doing such things. Whatever I might have said yesterday or last week or last year is of little importance to me. I may wake up tomorrow and see things from a totally different perspective from how I see them today. I am retired and that means that I do not have to concern myself about contradicting myself.

Actually the reason I deleted my photos is because I intend to follow Lewis Polk's advice and not feed the trolls by discussing Aristo-Craft products on MLS anymore - the same reason that I no longer discuss LGB products on MLS. 

There is way too much anger, hostility and amazing levels of bias here. I have no desire to convince anyone to do anything and I have no desire to put up with the BS any longer. If I have anything to say about products, brands and manufacturers it will be on less hostile forums.

Then again I may change my mind so don't bother making a copy of this in case I contradict myself - because I won't care if I do.

The simple truth is that regarding everything you said, I just don't care about any of it (really). Its just more of the BS I am taking a vacation away from.

At least I will give you credit for an honest avatar. It tells folks what to expect from you - but it is just an electronic image that appears to be toothless.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

My memory is fine. Yeah, I pulled my stuff. And I have absolutely no intention of ever putting anything up on this forum again for the site owner to claim ownership of. Read "the rules". 

Perhaps your memory isn't as good as you claim. Read the rules again.. No claims of ownership, just the right to retain it. If you have no intention of ever putting anything up again, why the **** are you posting? Why did you tell me adios? Be done with MLS and don't come back.. No one misses your argumentative attitude. 

Jerry, if you're on vacation why the **** are you posting?


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

No photos, which was what we were talking about. Reason for this is rope, plain and simple. I don't log in and come here unless I get a call or an e-mail. Added to previous....data.....this is absolute entertainment. 
Remember, a whole lot of folks are watching this. Nothing is going to change. I'm done with all the regular postings I ever did here, no more photos, you know that. 
This one was bad enough I decided to watch it. 
Logging out, once again. 
However, just to clarify: 
2.1 - Once an individual has posted, the post is in the myLargescale.com collective work. While myLargescale.com does not claim ownership of posted material, by posting it you are granting myLargescale.com permission to retain that material. Members will not be allowed to delete that material. 

So, only part of the story, once again. If members will not be allowed to delete that material (once posted), I do believe that is another of the hard and fast "rules" that have been modified for one person? 

INTERESTING!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Some folks just can not see the light at the end of the tunnel and admit they have erred. Later RJD


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ShadsTrains on 15 Aug 2011 03:02 PM 
My memory is fine. Yeah, I pulled my stuff. And I have absolutely no intention of ever putting anything up on this forum again for the site owner to claim ownership of. Read "the rules". 

Perhaps your memory isn't as good as you claim. Read the rules again.. No claims of ownership, just the right to retain it. If you have no intention of ever putting anything up again, why the **** are you posting? Why did you tell me adios? Be done with MLS and don't come back.. No one misses your argumentative attitude. 

Jerry, if you're on vacation why the **** are you posting? 




I'm almost certain that you could have done this via personal e-mail rather than personal attacks. This is turning into such a nice friendly site.


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Fellow Enthusiasts, 

When I first became a member of this website I was under the impression that this was a great informational forum for enthusiasts like myself to gain knowledge about the hobby and connect with other enthusiasts. But, over this past year I can see that it has turned into a "Baggering Soap Opera," instead of a site where someone can turn to for information and this thread is case in point. 
I have been a sponsor of this site for several years but I can't honestly provide compensation to a forum promoting my product that baggers their members. This is more like a


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

In addition to...the previous post: 

When I first became a member of this website I was under the impression that this was a great informational forum for enthusiasts like myself to gain knowledge about the hobby and connect with other enthusiasts. But, over this past year I can see that it has turned into a "Baggering Soap Opera," instead of a site where someone can turn to for information and this thread is case in point. 
I have been a sponsor of this site for several years but I can't honestly provide compensation to a forum promoting my product that baggers their members. You probably have seen the decline in forum sponsorhsip over the past 8 months and I know (talking with previous sponsors) that has nothing to do with the economy, but everything to do with thread's like this! 

I wish you all the best, 
Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations, LLC 
RCS America


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## Adam Anderson (Apr 21, 2011)

Well, I just Luv those NW-2s
For any one who wants some more info
on these great locos here you go.









*First and only warnning, unless you are planning on comming up with the money to pay for this type of advertising, the next reply posted containing this type of content your MLS membership will be terminated.*
*SteveC MLS Moderator*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Woah! 

Did I not see this kind of thing posted by another member a while back, in greater detail and greater volume? (rhetorical, yes I did) 

I do agree the prices could be left off, but that would be a lot of typing to enter... 

I also think all the part numbers are unnecessary, but there is ample precedent on this forum for a different manufacturer. 

Also, I don't believe Adam is working for USA trains, nor gets any free hardware. Maybe he can confirm this. 

In the case of the precedent I am talking about, that person DEFINITELY receives free equipment from the other manufacturer, and that PROOF is on this forum. 

Summary: (just to be absolutely clear on the point I am making) 

While that post is somewhat "over the top" in my opinion, MLS has already allowed this type of thing and MORE for other manufacturers and other members. 

Now, if there are new rules, great, then do us the courtesy by saying this goes for ALL people, and ALL manufacturers... officially from MLS management. 

Greg


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, et al:

That above statement stands as posted.

Public Forum - Announcements Section/Topic: Forum Rules and Guidelines - Posted: 16 Apr 2008 11:14 PM[/b]

[*] Section 1.0 General
[*] 1.3 - Any post advertising items for sale is forbidden in the forums. The one exception is 1st class members may post links to their ads in the classified section of this site, but must keep it simple. (IE, "See my ad in the classifieds.")

[*] 1.6 - Any post which is deemed inappropriate for any reason may be edited or deleted at the sole discretion of the Moderators. "Inappropriate" includes, but is not limited to, posts which violate any of the above.
[/list][/list] The point is not open for discussion, any further posting of comment on this point in this topic or any other will merely result in the replies or topics being deleted.


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