# Lionel 0-6-0 conversion to 0-4-2 ? actual prototype?



## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi guys:

Has anyone removed the rear drive wheel from the Lionel 0-6-0 to build an 0-4-2 loco?

Apparently this model was drafted by the founder of Delton trains and then the plastic casting molds were designed by Phil Jensen.

Is there an actual prototype for this loco model?

Thank you

Norman


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

It looks like the body is a mashed version of a D&SP Fairly but the drive is a freelanced 0-6-0. While the motor runs really well the brass wheels are the weakest link as they need constant cleaning to avoid poor power pick up. I have read that once converted to battery that they run very well.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't they drive from the rear wheelset? The Lionel Thomas and James do. 
I'd like to scrounge a cab, and maybe a boiler from one. Then sit it on top of a Stainz brick and an archbar truck to make an 0-4-4 "baby" Mason


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Mil I think you better get two shells so you can extend the body enough to accomadate the block and the truck. There's not enough room for both under the tiny standard shell.


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Mik,

You may have a bit of trouble with the Stainz brick and fitting a pivot I think,though it does lurk right down on the track level almost: but I will be interested in your method! 


One idea is a stirrup shape on top of the motor with a pin in the top portion? 


I have a long term idea to make a Stainz brick into the Welsh equivalent of the Mason Bogies - the Ffestiniog Railway single Fairlie 'Taliesin.'



The photos of #1876, remind me that David Fletcher built a very nice model of that, painted in green. That is included in the following link - 


http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/21/aft/32404/afv/topic/Default.aspx

which is the Mason Bogie showcase 


scroll down a bit - he used a Aristo block.


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Mik: 

Do you know of any Forney prototype that looks like a baby Mason but has a fixed (non rotating) drive and does not have all those valve linkages hanging up in the air under the bell? 

Basically do you know of any Forney locos with a Mason style cab? 


Thanks 

Norman


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you might be after something like Ariel: 

http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib014/ARIEL.GIF 

David.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By peter bunce on 10 Oct 2011 03:33 PM 
Hi Mik,

You may have a bit of trouble with the Stainz brick and fitting a pivot I think,though it does lurk right down on the track level almost: but I will be interested in your method! 



Maybe I'm lazy, but the easiest way to my mind is to just super glue one of those blind/Tee/sleeve nuts to the top of the brick, like I did with my mallet - then make the boiler in 2 parts (above and below the running board)





















Norman, these are what I turned up with a quick search - hope they help


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Norman--

the Maine Two foot gauge railways used Forneys a lot, (plus a few tender engines) their cabs were Mason like complete with side doors though some lines re-worked their cabs to give the engineer and fireman a little more room and easier escape in case (when) the engine derailed. Here is my Model of WW&F #9 which served on the Sandy River, SR&RL and Kennebec Central before working for a few months on the failing WW&F and being saved for posterity. For the first year or so of her life the door was squeezed forward, leaving smaller side windows and an extra window behind the door. the Sandy River crew rebuilt her with the door shifted aft after a derailment damaged the original cab.









WW&F #10 is a former Louisiana Sugar Plantation engine with an open back cab more like the WW&F ran. I think original was enclosed like the Mason engines


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Guys: 

Thank you for the info. 

This web site provides some additional photos: 
http://lincoln.midcoast.com/~wwfry/wwfengines.html 

Engine No 5 and No 8 have the original style cab with the door moved forward. 
I really like engine No. 1 with the inclined cylinders. 

The cab of WW&F No 10 does look like a replacement now that Eric mentions it. 

I bought a HLW "La Porte" Forney loco. Unfortunately, it was too expensive for HLW to modify their present drive and move the rear axle forward. 

My goal is to modify the Lionel 0-6-0 loco to look something like: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/stevec/MLS-Topic-Article/MLS-Articles/ThePhilJensenStory-2.pdf 

pg 16 of 38 , 0-4-2T loco 

from Dave Fletcher's history of Delton trains. Next to the C-16, that is my favourite loco which Phil Jensen designed. Too bad that it was not produced. A shortened version of the side door drover's caboose was produced by Delton for Lionel. So at least that was sort of produced. Maybe one could fit an Aristo Craft cupola and USATrains metal caboose end railings to the Lionel caboose? 

I am using the C-16 smokebox, the HLW flat panel roof, Delton cab body and HLW La Porte brass domes with a 2" diameter pipe. The 2" boiler diameter will be larger than the Delton prototype 0-4-2T model but 1/4" less in diameter than the present Lionel 0-6-0 loco. At least the steam cylinders and cowcatcher are an exact match ! 

David, that ARIEL loco photo is remarkable. 
http://www.trainnet.org/Libraries/Lib014/ARIEL.GIF 
The photographer of the day really knew his craft. The tricocks and the Johnson bar are clearly defined. It looks like the ARIEL spent most of its time running backwards given the small size of the front headlamp and the large size of the rear headlamp and the large cowcatcher on the rear. No sand dome. There must have been very flat topography on that railroad! 

David, do you know what was the prototype for the Lionel 0-6-0 model? Purely a freelance loco? 

Eric, did you scratch build your loco WW&F #9 ? Are you using O gauge trackage to represent two foot gauge? 


Norman


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Norman-- 

I am using G-gauge track and pretending the gauge is two feet. I have been thinking about doing some modeling in 7/8"=1foot scale wich makes for bigger equipment which is properly scaled to the track- but i havnt taken the plunge yet as the engines and cars probably will not fit my covered bridges and may have trouble with my minimum of 5foot radius curves. 

Aerial and her sister Puck were some of the cutest and fanciest of the two footers as well as being the first in the US. They are also amoung the smallest, though WW&F #10 is very similar size. http://www.wwfry,org is the current link to the WW&F railway museum.

Your plan to build the 0-4-2 like in that photo is a good one! That is a nice little engine. It will be an honorary Forney.


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Eric: 

The other idea is too stay in the scale you are presently in. But run the trains on O Gauge or S Gauge track depending on the scale calculations. 1:20.3 scale I believe uses O Gauge track for exactly two feet between the rails. 

Norman


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have thought of that and the idea has a certain charm to it but I couldnot share my line with as many freinds if I converted plus that would be a lot of work both in track change and rolling stock. 

The British are fond of running on O-gauge track and the trains look great have a look at this one: http://youtu.be/Ud0qFwAHcuo


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

History of Ariel and Puck found on the Internet: 

Puck, Ariel's brother, Puck was identical to Ariel and built at the same time. 
(California, Railway and Locomotive Historical Society Collection) 

Motive power for the road were two 0-4-4T Forney engines, Ariel and Puck. These machines, built by Hinkley, had 8 by 12 inch cylinders, 30 inch diameter drivers, and weighed about twelve tons. Remarkably, their grate area was over 5.5 feet, large for a two foot gauge engine. This size was enabled by placing the drivers ahead of the firebox, which allowed the firebox to extend on both sides of the locomotive. The cowcatcher is shown on the "wrong" end because the engines were normally run backwards which, Mansfield hoped would provide greater visibility and deliver less smoke and cinders into the cars following. The two tank locomotives were operated, more or less, in commutation service and they attained speeds of thirty-five miles per hour during their short runs between stops. 

http://books.google.ca/books?id=4xi...m=7&sqi=2&ved=0CEoQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false 



Brief video of PUCK photo, time 1:45 ( same loco style as Ariel ) 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZvY9uLGX6o 


Norman


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