# Accuracraft Royal Hudson Live Steam



## Mr Magoo (Mar 1, 2008)

Accuracraft have used soft stainless steel cheap garbage rods on there wheels when it should have been hardened steel used. Don’t bother trying to get replacements from Accuracraft as the don't keep spare parts for this loco.
*Good Loco in principal*. I wish I had known that they don't back up there product with after sales spare parts. I also had to replace the axel pump O rings and had to pull half the loco apart to get to them when it was noticed there was an O Ring missing. They don't even supply a parts breakdown diagram to help disassembly to repair the loco
I will never buy Accuracraft garbage again, I will stick to Aster who back there products up
All Accuracraft Royal Hudson owners will eventually have to find someone to replace these rods.
Anyone buying there Big Boy or Allegany should ask Accuracraft if they have used hardened steel rods in any of the these locos or used cheap crap before they pay out there hard earned money for an over inflated priced item. Here is a link of a picture of the rod http://members.dodo.com.au/dvrobert/index_files/page0004.htm


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Sorry, that link does not work for me in Canada.
What happened to your rods?
None of the eight or so local Royal Hudsons to me have had any problems with their rods, and Cliff at Accucraft has always managed to help with any small problems.
It is a known problem about the factory fitting the incorrect size o rings on the axle pump, but it is fairly easy to get the piston out from underneath without too much trouble.
It's always a shame when someone has a bad experience with a single loco, and then refuses to deal with a company after that.
In your case, I think that you should stick with your Asters as it would appear that nothing will now change your mind.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## deltatrains (Nov 25, 2010)

*Accucraft Royal Hudson in good working order.*

Sorry to read that you are having some problems with your Accucraft RH. I have now been running mine without any problems since I got it brand new and now seven years later is still one of my favourite engines. Here is a short video of it at Dan Pantages' beautiful Bear Creek track.




All the best,
Peter.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Just as an FYI, the original design of the axle pump had both orings on the gland and two rings on the shaft. this caused a lot of resistance and after thy were built they were removed before they were shipped from what I remember. As most don't know this is too much resistance and only one Oring is needed in one of the locations. The gland OR the shaft but not both. If you leave the gland one on its easy for you to overtighten the gland and crush the oring and create extra resistance. They removed the oring on the shaft to lessen the resistance. They did the same thing on the Masonbogie at the same time.

As to the rod wear, I don't see any images of the rod that you are complaining about just the worn crank pin. And don't know the history of the loco and lubrication and cleaning as both will have an affect on this type of wear. As you have not signed the post we don't know where you are but I can tell you if you needed rods that Cliff would get them supplied to you had you contacted him. I have not seen any wear this deep but have seen it in the past on some locos that were not oiled sufficiently causing the dirt to grind into the rods and impregnate the rod hardening the surface and wearing out the cranks. Do you run on elevated tracks? On the ground? When have you cleaned the grime and grit from the loco running gear?


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Mr Magoo,

Although I agree with some of your observations and sentiment regarding Accucraft, the RH is probably one of their better models. Certainly, the quality of some components has been a well discussed topic as has the lack of manuals among many of things. Accucraft has, with some measure and with some frequency, cut corners to provide a very attractive and usually reasonably priced model. To many, this has been a reasonable and worthwhile trade-off. To others, like yourself, their manufacturing quality standards fall somewhere close to the fraudulent zone...

As David Leech points out above, their service, where non-design failures are involved, is excellent. Mr Cliff here in the US is a very responsive and helpful chap. In this space, I might venture to say---they exceed Aster's service..Being a bit of an Aster snob myself, it is difficult for me to say that... You might try him and see what he might suggest. Good luck.

By the way, this was not meant as a slight on Aster service. They have also been excellent throughout the years...


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Speaking with Cliff just recently he has yet to hear about this issue. Please do call him and he will repair the loco for you. Being you already dropped the driver its a simple repair at Accucraft.

His number is 510-324-3339, just ask for Cliff


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Kovacjr said:


> As you have not signed the post we don't know where you are but I can tell you if you needed rods that Cliff would get them supplied to you had you contacted him. I have not seen any wear this deep but have seen it in the past on some locos that were not oiled sufficiently causing the dirt to grind into the rods and impregnate the rod hardening the surface and wearing out the cranks. Do you run on elevated tracks? On the ground? When have you cleaned the grime and grit from the loco running gear?


Jason,
MR Magoo appears to be a Wayne Robertson (at least that is the name on the videos but maybe not Mr Magoo) who lives in Mannering Park, New South Wales in Australia, so maybe they don't get good Accucraft service down under.
His pictures and videos of running his trains show a nicely built elevated and in ground railway.
I finally managed to find a way to open his photo and find his site.
Is it ALL the crank pins that are this way, or just this one?
If it is just this one, I wonder if a rod bushing was missdrilled causing it to be just tight enough to cause this wear?
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

David, Jason;
Accucraft uses bronze bushings on the connecting rods. 
How does a bronze bushing cause this steel crank pin wear? 
Particularly in just 16 hours running time (photo note) Mr Magoo's say that this damage occurred.
We have no photos of the connecting rods to see the condition of the rod and its bushings.

The axle saddles in the back ground of photo appear fine, no damage. Wouldn't forces great enough to cause the crank pin wear also affect the saddle bushing(s)


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Chris,
I am no expert in metallurgy, but I seem to remember reading an article in the G1MRA newsletter that explained that sometimes it is the softer material that gets embedded with pieces of the harder material which then in turn causes the wear on the harder material, or something to that effect.
It explained that it was necessary to choose the correct pairing of materials to prevent this, and in fact some people do not use bushings at all and rely upon the correct choice of materials.
Anyway, in this case I am not sure what has happened and hopefully the writer will be able to give us more in depth details.
Maybe it is the wheel that is not quartered correctly, or loose on the axle, or something.
We are all just guessing without all the details.
I would say that the axle bushings are that much larger that they would be less likely to show any real wear.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

David's explanation is also a somewhat common occurrence on the Heim joints on radio control helicopters. Grit would imbed in the plastic links, and then grind down the metal balls. So it was metal balls which wore faster than plastic links, if not kept clean.


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## Mr Magoo (Mar 1, 2008)

David, it is both rods on the axle pump wheels. The loco was stripped to replace the cylinder o rings also. A friend who can see better than me noticed that the loco was leaking steam more than normal, hence pulling the underside apart. This is where the worn parts were noticed. 
As for the loco itself I like it better than my more expensive Asters. If they want to cut corners they shouldn't do it with poor quality metal on the major components. With the wheels I am going to ship them down to Argyle Loco Works and have hardened steel rods put in place. I was thinking of buying the Accuracraft Allegheny or CP Selkirk but not when I now know that they cut corners on major parts. I wont let Aster of the hook either. I purchased a fully built Aster S2 and when I ran it, it kept derailing and power was rock bottom. they built the loco with the front truck on the wrong way and a pipe in the stack area was never connected. There quality control is non existent. They call me Mr Magoo because I'm as blind as the character. One last thing You can buy a good T.V. and get a 50 page manual full of info for a few hundred dollars and pay thousands of dollars for a loco and only get a 2 page leaflet with almost no info
Regards
Wayne


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Thank you Wayne for the clarification.
Seems to point to the stresses needed against an unwilling axle pump.
I personally like to have a locomotive that will roll freely when cold, and I know that the o rings everywhere tend to make that harder on the Royal Hudson.
You have to remember that Accucraft are still new at this game, and I am sure that they 'should' get better as the years go by.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Mr Magoo (Mar 1, 2008)

Kovacjr said:


> Just as an FYI, the original design of the axle pump had both orings on the gland and two rings on the shaft. this caused a lot of resistance and after thy were built they were removed before they were shipped from what I remember. As most don't know this is too much resistance and only one Oring is needed in one of the locations. The gland OR the shaft but not both. If you leave the gland one on its easy for you to overtighten the gland and crush the oring and create extra resistance. They removed the oring on the shaft to lessen the resistance. They did the same thing on the Masonbogie at the same time.
> 
> As to the rod wear, I don't see any images of the rod that you are complaining about just the worn crank pin. And don't know the history of the loco and lubrication and cleaning as both will have an affect on this type of wear. As you have not signed the post we don't know where you are but I can tell you if you needed rods that Cliff would get them supplied to you had you contacted him. I have not seen any wear this deep but have seen it in the past on some locos that were not oiled sufficiently causing the dirt to grind into the rods and impregnate the rod hardening the surface and wearing out the cranks. Do you run on elevated tracks? On the ground? When have you cleaned the grime and grit from the loco running gear?


 There was a link supplied. I am also vision impaired so forgive me for not 
going into a large amount of detail. A friend logged me in and gave me the Mr Magoo nickname. The name is Wayne and I'm in Australia I am not 100% sure of I'm posting my reply's correct as it takes me forever to just to try and type this short letter. Also my track is 95% elevated and I use the best oils and keep the loco in mint condition. The loco has no scratches or marks
Thanks for your reply
Wayne


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## Mr Magoo (Mar 1, 2008)

David Leech said:


> Chris,
> I am no expert in metallurgy, but I seem to remember reading an article in the G1MRA newsletter that explained that sometimes it is the softer material that gets embedded with pieces of the harder material which then in turn causes the wear on the harder material, or something to that effect.
> It explained that it was necessary to choose the correct pairing of materials to prevent this, and in fact some people do not use bushings at all and rely upon the correct choice of materials.
> Anyway, in this case I am not sure what has happened and hopefully the writer will be able to give us more in depth details.
> ...


 David.
The bushings on the connecting rods have no wear that my friend can see, who is doing the work on the Hudson , As Accuracraft is in the USA. I will send them to Gordon Watson for repairs down here. But I will let Accuracraft know about the problem.

Regards
Wayne


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Mr Magoo said:


> David.
> The bushings on the connecting rods have no wear that my friend can see, who is doing the work on the Hudson , As Accuracraft is in the USA. I will send them to Gordon Watson for repairs down here. But I will let Accuracraft know about the problem.
> 
> Regards
> Wayne



Please correct me if I'm wrong, but... If there is no wear to the connecting rod bushing that was attached to the wheel then the supposed crank pin wear could not have been caused by the connection rod.

Speculation;
_I believe_ the spacer between the wheel and the connecting rod is missing from the crank pin. That spacer would occupy the smaller diameter portion of the crank pin next to the wheel. _I believe_ the spacer does not come off when the linkage is removed.

New mystery;
How did the missing spacer leave or disappear from the crank pin?

Could the spacer have been left off when the locomotive was built? Doubtful. Lacking that spacer the connecting rod would have been flopping on the pin causing a terrible noise. I doubt the locomotive would have achieved 16 hours of run time as claimed.

Wayne wrote that both crank pins show the same supposed wear pattern. That simply doubles the mystery of the missing spacers. (Or how the supposed wear occurred with no wear to the bushings.)


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Chris,
Unfortunately the photos are no longer available so I'm not sure exactly where the wear was now!
I don't think that there is a spacer on the crank pin between the wheel and the coupling rod.
What I see is the wheel with a stepped crank pin which is the same diameter for it's entire length.
The coupling rod is up against the step, then there is a spacer, then the connecting rod and then the return crank.
So you are suggesting that the spacers on both sides, between the coupling rods and connecting rods were missing.
I wonder if you are correct!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

David Leech said:


> Chris,
> Unfortunately the photos are no longer available so I'm not sure exactly where the wear was now!
> I don't think that there is a spacer on the crank pin between the wheel and the coupling rod.
> What I see is the wheel with a stepped crank pin which is the same diameter for it's entire length.
> ...



David;
Why don't you take a photo of your RH? I think it would be very helpful. Turn it upside down, arial view of one crank pin (precisely perpendicular) evidence what it looks like assembled. Then we'll know what's what and where.

_Still, no connecting rod bushing wear, supposed wear cannot have been caused by the connecting rod.
_ 

Below content of Wayne's link; text (in quotes) & image:

"Accuracraft have used soft stainless steel cheap garbage rods on there wheels when it should have been hardened steel used. Don’t bother trying to get replacements from Accuracraft as the don't keep spare parts for this loco.
Good Loco in principal. I wish I had known that they don't back up there product with after sales spare parts. I also had to replace the axel pump O rings and had to pull half the loco apart to get to them when it was noticed there was an O Ring missing. They don't even supply a parts breakdown diagram to help disassembly to repair the loco
I will never buy Accuracraft garbage again, I will stick to Aster who back there products up
All Accuracraft Royal Hudson owners will eventually have to find someone to replace these rods.
Anyone buying there Big Boy or Allegany should ask Accuracraft if they have used hardened steel rods in any of the these locos or used cheap crap before they pay out there hard earned money for an over priced item"

"Check the ware out after about 16 hours use (Arrow)."
(Note; Wayne's photo had a red arrow without feathers.)


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## Mr Magoo (Mar 1, 2008)

*Accuracraft Royal Hudson*



David Leech said:


> Jason,
> MR Magoo appears to be a Wayne Robertson (at least that is the name on the videos but maybe not Mr Magoo) who lives in Mannering Park, New South Wales in Australia, so maybe they don't get good Accucraft service down under.
> His pictures and videos of running his trains show a nicely built elevated and in ground railway.
> I finally managed to find a way to open his photo and find his site.
> ...


 David,
Sorry for the delay getting back to you. I and a friend pulled the Hudson apart and found an O-ring missing, and the axel pump was very tight which i believe could have been the start of the problem. 
With the Loco itself, before running I would lubricate all the appropriate parts plus the axel pump and on the end of a run it would be cleaned oiled and put away in a carrier I had made like your carrier. I don't believe dirt or grit caused any fault. I do believe it was the axel pump that was the cause. I sent all the connecting rods plus the axel pump wheels to Argyle Locomotive Works to have the rods checked and the rods repaired with hardened steel pins> Gordon Watson at Argyle replaced the pins and re-bushed all the connecting rods for me and repaired the axel pump. Gordon did a great job and I was lucky to catch up with him at a steam-up at Newcastle and had the Hudson running again. Also while I had the Hudson apart I did a few things to improve the loco by getting rid of a lot of burs plus replacing all O-rings. Plus lights have been installed. I now believe the loco is the best it has ever been. My one big complaint with Accucraft is that you can buy a $50 DVD Player and get a 50 page manual in detail and for quite a few thousand dollars from Accucraft you get a one page folded in half brief description of the loco. 
Any way thank you all for your reply's and help


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Wayne,
Glad to hear that all is well with the Hudson.
The lights look great.
I guess we'll never know why it happened, as I doubt that the axle pump would cause that to happen.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

David, some of us do know why this happened, but the information is not being revealed, apparently. Not quite fair on the manufacturer as they appear not to be at fault here (info from 16mmngm yahoo group discussion from some time ago). That said, Gordon is a master at fixing dead locos and Accucraft can hardly do worse on documentation;-(... but they do make great locomotives, most of the time;-)! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Apparently Mr. Magoo is just another Accucraft basher on here. Aster has had it's disasters. The RH is a good loco. All the engines I have have bushing inserts in the rods. Was his missing? If you run your loco in the dirt, that is on the ground, then the wear will be more than if you run on an elevated track. The rod bushings on my C16 had to be replaced after something like 10 years of running on the ground. Cliff just sent me a set after I requested it. Maybe Mr Magoo should try calling Accucraft rather than just spouting off on here.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Wayne

Since you brought up the "instruction manual" subject multiple times.... here is a reasonably [IMHO] cogent answer.

a] The cost of preparing a set of instructions for an Aster locomotive is very large. Preparing the instructions [and validating them] is very labor intensive and represents at least 200 or more hours of work. Preparing the drawings is another large expense... they don't just pop out of the cad drawings used in manufacturing the parts. Printing the large format book is another big expense. If you ammortize the cost over a production run of a 150 engines, the manuals are NOT cheap at all.

b] Accucraft locomotives are designed to be assembled once by someone in the factory. They assume that repair work will be handled by an authorized agent familiar with their basic construction philosophy, or an experienced owner with better than average mechanical ability. Therefore, only the simplest information is supplied and several thousand dollars is saved.

c] Almost all live steam manufacturers assume that a novice will acquire one or more of the "good to excellent" books already published related to the design, operation, and maintenance of small scale locomotives. The information in these volumes applies to the proper care, cleaning, and lubrication of ALL steam models. 

d] Your example of a DVD player is a poor one. The cost of a 50 page manual amortized over probably 500,000 to 1,000,000 units makes the cost of the manual insignificant. The actual cost of a set of manuals for a single Aster is probably MORE than the cost of the DVD player.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Dr Rivet said:


> <snip>
> 
> a] The cost of preparing a set of instructions for an Aster locomotive is very large. Preparing the instructions [and validating them] is very labor intensive and represents at least 200 or more hours of work. Preparing the drawings is another large expense... they don't just pop out of the cad drawings used in manufacturing the parts. Printing the large format book is another big expense. If you amortize the cost over a production run of a 150 engines, the manuals are NOT cheap at all.


^ --- Makes sense to me.

This post ought not to be taken as being in any way critical of Accucraft.

To produce a model locomotive, detailed drawings must have been made though, regardless of manufacturer, correct? Such drawings are not of the same type as what Aster supplies though either.

I'm guessing that production drawings are held back to discourage knock-offs from being made deriving from someone's hard work and intellectual property. 

Aster does not supply scale three-view drawings with dimensions indicated. They simply supply non-scale orthographic projections - at best - and without dimensional data. They are useful for determining what goes where . . . and are very helpful for assembly, disassembly and reassembly - so they are much appreciated.

Still . . .

It would be a nice thing to have such drawings available for purchase from other manufacturers as well, but given the small volumes of individual locomotives manufactured, you are probably correct in suggesting that monetary or budget support of such activity would be minimal.

This is really a boutique "cottage" type business in an area with not much potential for growth, if any, and I think we tend to expect too much of our handful of suppliers. 

Cheers,

Joe


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

When working in the hobby industry, once a project was past the novice level, it took as long to make a useful instruction manual as designing the product and performing some development. Excellent point Dr. rivet.

dave


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I design kayak kits for the home builder. The design of the kit is easy compared to writing and illustrating the manual. my kayaks have a lot fewer prices than any steamer probably including a Ruby. Instruction manuals run to a hundred or more pages and still people complain about them!

On fairymead Jason of the Train Department wrote a manual which was quite nice, it included some history of the engine and assembly info. I think only 50 were built by accucraft. The best manuals really are written by users and show up on forums like this one!


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Eric,
Excellent point. There is tremendous knowledge and experience out there on many of these engines, including Accucraft. I used to make builders notes when I had time on some of the Aster builds I did. God knows the instructions of some of those early engines left a bit to be desired. Perhaps, in regard to Accucraft or others, we could try to create a category for others to review work or rework. I'm sure Ryan or Charles, if they had time, could write many books on the subject...


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

John, I can't believe you admitted a part wore out on an Accucraft engine hehehe.....


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Gentlemen,
I have to step in at this point ..
Accucraft where not at fault here, but neither was Wayne..he had been badly misinformed on caring for the Loco in one aspect only and because his vision is very poor [I have made oil caps for him which are large enough to see and therefore handle] he was unable to read and verify this info..

if you look at the pics of the wear problem very closely you will see a 'ring" of light grey material around the axle hole on the axlebox, that is the residue of Kitchen surface cleaner which he had been told to use to clean down the loco after running!
this cleaner is a fine abrasive pumice in soap suspension.

the loco is in beautiful condition otherwise and cherished beyond reason.

it now has all new pins in oil hardened tool steel, new bushings to all rods reamed to close fits side tolerances fitted with select fit washers, lapped to suit etc and running perfectly when I saw it last month at the Hunter Valley Steam up.a Picture of power and grace!!

Gordon Watson [taperpin]

ps I spent more time writing the instructions for our Philadelphia kit than I did building the pilot model.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Gordon,
Many thanks for explaining the mystery.
Amazing how something so seemingly innocent, could cause such wear.
Glad that you were there to sort out the problem.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

With all due respect Dr. Rivet, I disagree on your 1st point. Sure there are costs involved in instructions and diagrams, and true the production number is perhaps too low to justify this. They COULD if they wanted, spread out the costs of that over the 150 or so production locos and only have to charge a small percentage more. I would guess more than most would be happy if they did.

It is what it is though and its the way it is so guess there is no reason to beat this dead horse.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

It seems that beating the dead horse goes quite well without a manual;-)... Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

zubi said:


> It seems that beating the dead horse goes quite well without a manual;-)... Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi





Taperpin said:


> Gentlemen,
> I have to step in at this point ..
> Accucraft where not at fault here, but neither was Wayne..he had been badly misinformed on caring for the Loco in one aspect only ...
> 
> Gordon Watson [taperpin]


Zubi;
With words from Gordon neither Accucraft nor Wayne was at fault it would be good to hear Wayne correct his comments about Accucraft and their products. 

There's a horse that got loose and needs to go back to the barn.


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