# First time Forney steamup question!



## Nicodelbosque (Sep 16, 2013)

Well, my Accucraft Forney arrived a few weeks ago and I am just now getting the opportunity to fire it up. When prepping the loco I filled the boiler with the suggested 80 ML of distilled water per Accucraft's directions, but no water shows in the glass. 80 ML doesn't sound like much, but that's what the instructions say. I don't want to continue until I'm sure there is enough water in the boiler, so I'm hoping you folks can give me some pointers. Are the instructions wrong? Do I need more water? Is there a problem with the glass? Perhaps the boiler needs to be under pressure for the glass to fill?

Thank you very much in advance.
Nick 

BTW: I will be running the loco on a set of Accucraft 45mm gauge rollers for the time being.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

The way I do it either with an empty boiler or if I already have water in the boiler and don’t know how much, then I ﬁll the boiler to the top and remove 30ml to leave room for steam. This is easier than measuring the input.

Be sure to use steam distilled water since tap water contains minerals that can harm the boiler and fittings.

By the way, sight glasses are notoriously unreliable and sometimes a bubble forms that prevents a good reading. The best thing to do is KNOW how much water you have to start with and watch the time. Do not continue with a lighted burner if no steam is being produced and the locomotive stops.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Nick, It's likely there is just an air bubble stuck in the glass. G "scale" sight glasses are problematic due to their small size. You just have to learn their quirks and your loco. If the glass is equipped with a blow down you can use that once under a bit of pressure to remedy the situation. The best way to be sure is to do as Carl describes and fill it all the way until it come to the top of the fill hole then remove 30ml to give the steam room to build. Congrats on the new loco. Have fun with it.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Greetings, 

I also have one of the Forney's and it is a sweet runner. I do as suggested above is fill the boiler and then remove 30ml of water. When done running the locomotive make sure that you leave the fill plug cracked so as the boiler cools you don't pull any steam oil into the boiler, if you do you will get the crud's in the boiler. 

Andre


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Be very careful when loosening the fill plug... 

If you open it too soon then there will still be steam pressure and you could scald your hand(s) from the escaping steam, or blow the plug sky high (if you get it totally unscrewed before you realize it) and risk facial burns, too... as well as waste a lot of time on your hands and knees on the ground searching for where the plug came down. 

If you don't open the fill plug soon enough, then you risk contaminating the boiler with steam oil. 

There is an inbetween point, usually totally unknown to the user, where the pressure is low enough to not burn you on escaping steam and the vacuum has not started to form and is sucking oil back into the boiler. 

I don't know the Forney setup, but some engines have whistle, blower, and/or blow-down valve(s) that can be opened to be release pressure before opening the fill plug, but if it has those valves, then you don't need to open the fill plug to relieve the vacuum that forms when the steam condenses, as that valve will suffice to do it.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Sorry, I am confused here. 
Maybe old age is creeping in, but I don't have this loco so it may be different anyway. 
IF the throttle is closed, why would oil be sucked into the boiler when cooling down? 
The lubricator is between the throttle and the cylinders, isn't it? 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Two reasons:

1) Some throttles don't close tight enough to resist the vacuum.

2) It is a good idea to open the throttle when the boiler is still hot, because the contraction of the metals can cause a closed throttle to seize and it might break if someone attempts to open it after it has cooled.

Most of the time the throttle will loosen when heated again, but many people will attempt to move the throttle before it is hot enough and sometimes "WE" (to quote Bullwinkle) "just don't know mah own strength!" and thus break something when we do.

But why take the chance, just open the throttle a little bit while the stuff is hot and it then won't seize and you can play with it later when it is cool, but then you definitely have the worry of sucking steam oil back into the boiler.


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## Nicodelbosque (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks very much to all for the helpful suggestions. My thought also was to try and remove the suggested 30 ML, but I'll have to find some tubing to connect the the syringe. Unfortunately, the instructions from Accucraft are sparse at best! I don't know if the sight glass has a blowdown valve. I think not. 

I would like to echo David's question regarding the fill cap. With the throttle closed how can steam oil be sucked into the boiler? Is this a quirk of the Forney, or of all small scale steam engines? 

Thanks again to the community for your time and mentorship. 
Nick


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 02 Nov 2013 03:04 PM 
Two reasons:

1) Some throttles don't close tight enough to resist the vacuum.

2) It is a good idea to open the throttle when the boiler is still hot, because the contraction of the metals can cause a closed throttle to seize and it might break if someone attempts to open it after it has cooled.

Most of the time the throttle will loosen when heated again, but many people will attempt to move the throttle before it is hot enough and sometimes "WE" (to quote Bullwinkle) "just don't know mah own strength!" and thus break something when we do.

But why take the chance, just open the throttle a little bit while the stuff is hot and it then won't seize and you can play with it later when it is cool, but then you definitely have the worry of sucking steam oil back into the boiler.


Actually this warning goes to OTHER valves on the backhead Also. AND in all scales. When our 1 1/2" Mogul is cooling down, we crack the throttle and all the valves on the backhead. They WILL seize when they are cold, if they are closed tight when hot.


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## Nicodelbosque (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks, gentlemen. I think I was typing when Semper Vaporo posted his response to our question! 

This is very good information. 

Nick


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick 
The sight glass on the Foreny does not have a blow down. I just fill the boiler up and take 30ml out. I would get a goodale valve for the boiler. The water will run out before the gas (not good if you don't pay attention) You should get about 20 minute run, more if you get the goodale valve. The Goodale valve will let you refill the boiler while gas is still on. Adding RC will make a big difference when using it on grades. Watch the gas, as the boiler gets hot the gas flow will increase. Just have to turn the gas down when it gets too loud. Make sure you oil all the moving parts, eccentrics etc...... and clean them every so often. I love my Forney and it runs great


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Hi I have a Forney and enjoy it very much. Use the 30ml out trick for boiler. Regarding the sight glass, one tip I have heard is to put a thin bronze or copper wire strand in the tube. This may help break the surface tension and give a more accurate reading. I did this and believe that it helps. HOWEVER, the glass is very very fragile and I would suggest having replacements on hand before trying to remove it. Mine had already broken so I put a wire into the new one. There are suppliers out there with spares that are always good to have on hand such as the glass, a replacement Ronson gas fill valve, perhaps a gas jet as well. OH and I found the stock safety valve to be problematical. I got a new one from WeeBee locos, and it is superb. Cured much waste of steam from the old valve. I also added RC and love it. 
Have fun 
Jerry


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## Nicodelbosque (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks Shawn & Jerry! 

I ordered both a Goodale and "upgraded" safety valve from Accucraft but I haven't yet fitted them to the loco. Good idea to have some other spare parts around, too, Jerry. 

I also installed a Summerland's Chuffer right off which I've already installed (hopefully correctly!). 

Nick


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

This video was taken last Spring. I added a wood Cab, took the front lead wheels off and repainted it. 

http://youtu.be/C4N5aSgvuqE


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## Nicodelbosque (Sep 16, 2013)

Great video, Shawn! 

I also plan to remove the lead truck and replace the cab on mine eventually. Such a small forney doesn't look right to me with a lead truck, but I didn't like the aesthetics of Accucraft's 0-4-4 version. 

So, I fired the thing up yesterday and I suppose it works OK. Lots of smoke and steam where I didn't expect them, and it was a bit jerky, but perhaps it just needs to "run in"? It keeps stalling in forward and reverse and I either have to open up the throttle, followed by the inevitable uncontrolled acceleration, or move the drivers manually. I'm pretty sure I lubed everything I should with 3 in 1 oil and filled the lubricator with steam oil. All reports I've heard and read say these engines are excellent runners, so I assume it just needs to be broken in. It would probably help to be on actual track with a train attached, too, I'm sure. 

Thanks! 
Nick


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Nick- 
It is normal for the loco to sputter and pop upon startup. You also have to run enough to clear condensate from the cylinders which are cool upon start up and condense the steam. This makes for initial jerky motion. Typically this is done by going from forward to reverse several times until the locomotive has cleared out the water and starts to run smoothly. You are on rollers at present, right? So let us know if it does smooth out even if it is fast. BTW, when I run on a track, i find it imprudent to run without the drag of 3 or 4 cars. The Forney needs that weight to keep it under control. And both the throttle valve and butane fuel valve are a tad coarse making fine adjustments rather challenging. Suppliers such as Train Department can sell you valve stems with finer control that will help with adjustments. 

Jerry


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

If you have a Goodall valve you don't have to worry about a vacuum in the boiler because the valve will let air in as the boiler cools. If you need tubing for the syringe go to a hobby shop that deals in airplanes and get some fuel line tubing.


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## Nicodelbosque (Sep 16, 2013)

Yeah, it's pretty smooth if running fast, but when I try to slow it down it stalls - even after having been under steam for some time, so I don't think it's due to cold cylinders and/or condensate. It really feels like it's seizing up somewhere, but I'm sure I oiled everything. Anyway, haven't had a chance to run it again, but I'll report back. 

Good to know about the Goodall valve. I do plan on installing it in the near future. Perhaps before the next run. 

Thanks again to all for the invaluable assistance. 

Nick


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

So Nick, 
Is the lubricator working? 
How much oil is left after running? 
Is it just water left? 
Regards, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Nicodelbosque (Sep 16, 2013)

David, 

I THINK the lubricator's working, but I'm not sure how much it should be using. Steam oil seemed to be moving through the system. I didn't run the loco for very long (15 minutes?), but I couldn't tell how much water was in the reservoir at the end and I haven't drained it yet. The liquid level was the same as when I started, but that is as it should be, no? 

Thanks, 
Nick


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

You may want to check your rollers. Maybe binding up the drivers at slow speed. My Ruby will do the same. Once out on the track all is fine. Later RJD


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Nicodelbosque on 07 Nov 2013 04:32 AM 
David, 

I THINK the lubricator's working, but I'm not sure how much it should be using. Steam oil seemed to be moving through the system. I didn't run the loco for very long (15 minutes?), but I couldn't tell how much water was in the reservoir at the end and I haven't drained it yet. The liquid level was the same as when I started, but that is as it should be, no? 

Thanks, 
Nick 
Hi Nick,
You are obviously knowledgable about live steam.
Yes, it is called a displacement lubricator because the water will displace the oil, leaving the level the same.
I use a long clear plastic pipette, so that I can actually see how much water is coming out, and therefor how much oil has been used. 
You can also use a syringe, but I find that they get stuck up after a while.
Next time you run, start with just oil, and then see how much you have used after a given length of time.
All locos are different, but some have the habit of using ALL the oil in the first few seconds!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

With accucraft oil I get two runs with one fill in the lubricator. I currently use a different oil and I get one fill per run. That's also with the extended run by using the Goodale. I also think mine uses more oil then it should.


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## Nicodelbosque (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks for the compliment, David. I have had the opportunity to operate a few steam locomotives over the years - from 1/32 to 1/1 scale - and done a fair amount of reading, but there's still so much to learn now that I have my own loco! I am very grateful for the expertise and generosity of the forum members. 

Nick


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