# G Scale comments, models and sound systems



## jeffpas (Aug 14, 2015)

Hi, fairly new to model trains and just had some questions and comments.

First to say.... I find myself continually drawn to G-scale.  Why? Because I think its just neat. The size of the trains allow a lot more detail than the smaller scales and they're much more impressive to watch in action. 
Yet they're still small enough to have practically indoors if you wanted, so you can choose inside or out. If you're into detail realism & flexibility like that, this is the scale I think.

Also yearrrs ago when I was a very small child, my parents bought me a G-scale train- just a cheap plastic one, but I never forgot it. I had so much fun with that thing, carting my toys around  So to me its also nostalgia.
I read another recent post about the "glory days" of garden scale being over and I would say this: buy them for the kids. 
And they don't have to be the expensive models either. No better way to get more people into the hobby, I guarantee it will work. They'll be back.

Now for my questions:

1- From what I understand there's DCC and analog, DCC is a bit out of my price range and I've been told most people use analog anyway. What is the best sound system for G scale analog trains?
How good is Phoenix, and are there others less expensive that are decent?

2- LGB, Bachmann, 'Big Hauler' and 'Spectrum'..... Piko... Aristocraft (discontinued I heard) which company makes the best model trains?

thanks for opinions!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Question 1. Your power choice is wise. I haven't added a sound system for a long time, so I can't say anything about current sounds, but I'm happy with my Phoenix systems.

Question 2. You first need to decide what type of train you want to run. Standard gauge or Narrow Gauge, there is a wide difference in what the manufacturers you mentioned produce. 

Chuck


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

For analog-DC-compatible sound systems, you're not going to beat Phoenix. They're at the top of the heap, though that comes with a top-of-the-heap price, too. ($200). There's also Dallee Electronics and MyLocoSound, both at about half that. ($100, $80 respectively) They're not as flexible as Phoenix, but both sound good. Dallee is all digital, MyLocoSound is a hybrid, with analog and digital sounds combined. 

The answer to your second question isn't nearly as simple. You'll ask 10 people what's the best, and get 12 different opinions. "Best" is highly subjective, and also depends much on what kinds of trains you want to run. If you want modern mainline trains, then you needn't worry about Bachmann or to a large extent, LGB, as they don't make models of those prototypes. If narrow gauge is your thing, then Aristocraft need not apply. My suggestion--look for a locomotive and rolling stock that appeals personally to you, then ask about that specific model. 

Later,

K


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

As you can/will see, you're going to get a lot of conflicting answers about DC/DCC/battery. Apparently there are zealots on all sides; and the heretics are figuratively burned at the stake here, quite often. Hopefully this won't turn into one of those threads. Each has advantages and drawbacks. I personally chose DCC because it allows me to run multiple locos at a time and I'm not sure I'd remember to keep the batteries charged  . You can get the same effect with battery or DC (using old-fashioned block wiring), it's all down to what you want and can afford to spend in time and money. You can look through the forum to see what the proponents of each option say and draw your own conclusion.

Well before the process of choosing a locomotive, I decided what it was I was modeling. Turns out what I was interested in was Germany between the wars. Actually, since I don't have space to effectively model that, what I am actually modeling is a "Germanic" country somewhere in Europe. Graustark or Ruritania, perhaps--in the 1920s/1930s. Then I looked at European engines running during that period and settled on the Euro Mallet that runs through Germany's Harz Mountains. The two options were Trainline 45 and LGB. I bought a nice, used LGB Mallet for a couple hundred bucks and have been happy with it. You could use a strategy of selecting a manufacturer, then choosing a loco, then building your layout around that, but I think overall you'll be happier if you go the other way round.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been in "G" since the early 80s. No manufacturer is free of problems. The original, German made LGB, is probably the best, but it isn't failure free. 

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

jeffpas said:


> Hi, fairly new to model trains and just had some questions and comments.
> 
> First to say.... I find myself continually drawn to G-scale. Why? Because I think its just neat. The size of the trains allow a lot more detail than the smaller scales and they're much more impressive to watch in action.
> Yet they're still small enough to have practically indoors if you wanted, so you can choose inside or out. If you're into detail realism & flexibility like that, this is the scale I think.
> ...


1. If a Phoenix sound card which is DCC but can be used analog is $200, and a QSI or Zimo or ESU full motor control and sound DCC (which can be used analog) are all $200, then how is DCC out of your price range?

If you have any form of remote control, you have to ADD a remote control system to the $200 Phoenix which makes it MORE than DCC.

I suggest you look for the facts and collect information on real total prices if you wish to have quality sound.

Likewise you can get cheaper sound cards, both in "analog" and DCC.

Greg


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## jeffpas (Aug 14, 2015)

Okay, the dealer I've been talking to told me most people use analog on G-Scale, and the DCC systems I've seen online looked pretty expensive. Again I'm new to this... so correct me where I'm wrong. 
What I have right now is a Bachmann Spectrum Shay 3 truck which I got off Ebay. I just thought the model and detailing was really cool, and to see it run. I have some track and power but I don't have a whole setup, and not sure how far I'll go with that and when. But it would be neat to have sound. So for me I'm saying....how much money is worth the use I'm going to get right now?

The same dealer told me I can get a Phoenix sound card for around $230- about as much as I spent on the train btw- but with the analog system I'm being told all I'll get is the 'chuff' sound. The bells, whistles and other sound effects you see on the YouTube videos he says are for use with DCC systems.
Now..... MyLocoSound which is shown here (link) is usually being said by people as sounding "pretty good" as opposed to 'top of the line'. However their new updated card can be had for only $100- and also includes a remote control which allows you to run a lot of these sound effects on the fly while running the train. To me that sounds a lot more fun than just the 'chuff'.






Not having the luxury of hearing them side-by-side on the same train live, its really hard to guestimate but I'm thinking maybe the MyLocoSound card is the way to go for my situation..... :/
thanks for any comments


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

When people say DCC, sometimes they forget that a DCC equipped loco will run on DC layouts but you do not have the capability of activating the various sounds.
So, for a small loco you can do Phoenix sound for over $200, or a DCC decoder like Zimo which gives sound, light and motor control and for less than $100. This engine will run on DC!! And the sound is realistic in that when going downhill or coasting a steam engine stops chuffing just like the real trains with this DCC unit and it is programmable just like the phoenix.

On another note, Phoenix has a big library of great American sounds but limited in European sounds whereas the European DCC decoders have many European sounds.

Cost wise it is the system that can be pricey for DCC, but remote control in DC is not inexpensive and there are DCC systems at 5 amps that are close in price to the upper end of DC controllers. And used/older systems can be gotten for great prices.


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## jeffpas (Aug 14, 2015)

So its true that running analog with the Phoenix card you won't get all the bells and whistles?
Not sure I got the part about Zimo, is this a standalone kit like MyLocoSound that you can program or customize the sounds on, or would you need additional parts. And would it have a remote.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

All of my Phoenix sound cards, 10 to 15 or more years old, have bells and whistles. I installed reed switches under the locomotive and they are activated by magnets (LGB) in the track. If the magnet is on one side of the centerline between the rails, the whistle blows and if it is on the other side the bell rings. I cannot activate those sounds when ever I want to. But I do have them. I'd be surprised if the more current systems don't have that feature.

I am running analog DC. I use a Bridgewerks remote (UR-15) to control speed and direction.

I just remembered that I have some relatively new USAT engines that came with Phoenix sound installed. The track magnets still activate the bell and whistle. I've had them for less than 4 years.

Chuck

My recommendation for power would be to go with a simple DC system to get started. There are a lot of options out there. Get yourself a layout and see that you like and need after you have some experience. Make contact with a local group. Where do you live? There are clubs and informal groups all over. See what the locals are using. I would imagine that your dealer could give you some local contacts.


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## mdwildcat04 (Mar 11, 2013)

from Phoenix's website

How do I control the bell and whistle/horn sounds?There are three ways to activate these effects: train speed, trigger input and DCC command.
TRAIN SPEED: The crossing whistle/horn plays when you reach a set speed and can be played again by slowing down and speeding up. The crossing whistle speed is adjustable and can be determined by either the track/motor voltage or by a reed switch and axle magnets. The bell plays when your engine begins to move or slows to a stop.
TRIGGER INPUTS: Reed switches hooked between ground and the trigger terminals on the board may be used to trigger effects with track magnets, in an arrangement similar to that used by LGB. Outputs from remote control receivers may also be tied into these trigger inputs on the board.
DCC COMMANDS: The BigSoundTM recognizes DCC Function output commands transmitted on the track. These functions may be assigned to trigger sounds.Basically, if you want to run dc only, you can connect the sound triggers to reed switches and attach them to the bottom of the engine. Just as an example, place the whistle/horn switch in the middle, and the bell one off to the side. then place magnets in the middle of the track were you want the whistle/horn to blow, and off to the side were you want the bell to ring. 



Another option, just to make things harder on you. Wireless battery. This method has its benefits. No track wiring means you can make your layout as complex as you like. Rail type no longer matters. Dirty brass, aluminum, plastic, all viable options. 



Best off the shelf option, in my opinion, is the Crest Revolution. $90 gets you a receiver, and generic sound. The Phoenix sound will work with it as well. 


If you want to jump strait to Phoenix sound (or any other sound card), Airwire is a great option. If you have/want any USA trains diesels, they make drop-in receivers, no wiring fuss.

If you love to solder, build, and get frustrated, there is the Garden Railroader Jr. Throttle, or its reversed engineered and open sourced version found here:
https://github.com/bdharrison/wireless-dcc
they are cheaper, and actually airwire compatible, but a lot of work.

This is all my opinion and personal research. I have the JR. Throttle setup, and Have not looked back. Li-ion batteries are getting cheap and big, so battery life is not a problem. I have ran a Bachmann big hauler on a 4 amp hour battery for hours, and the battery barely noticed. Plus, again, I dont have to worry about track conditions.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

With any of the DCC decoders (Zimo, ESU, QSI, etc) you would need to see if they have the ability to trigger the sounds via track magnets or other means in an analog DC environment. Some have the ability to trigger the sounds via quick changes in voltage or polarity or can be set up to play sounds automatically as the train starts, stops, etc. (Note: in many cases, you need a DCC programmer to set this up on the decoder.)

There are a few drawbacks to using DCC decoders in DC environments depending on what you're using to power your track. First, you may run into compatibility issues if your control system uses PWM (pulse-width-modulation) to control the voltage to the track. PWM is a square wave that many DCC decoders think is a DCC signal, although being total gibberish to the decoder (because it's not a DCC square wave), it will just sit there and do nothing. Second, if you want to trigger sounds via variations in the voltage, you have to make sure your control system is capable of making those changes fast enough. Something like a Bridgewerks controller where you have a throttle handle and direction switch will likely work well (Bridgewerks also puts out a very clean linear voltage, so the square wave issue is not there, either). However, Bridgewerks makes a pushbutton remote control for their throttle which may not make those changes fast enough. Other remote control systems (Train Engineer, etc.) likewise will probably not allow you to make those changes that quickly, so you can't use them to trigger the sounds based on changes in track voltages. 

Most folks who run analog DC tend to gravitate towards Phoenix, Dallee, and MyLocoSound because they're designed with the analog DC user in mind. With these boards, you have anywhere from two to four externally-triggerable sounds, typically triggered with track magnets set on the rails. They're "standalone" systems because they operate parallel to the power going to the motor, as opposed to needing to re-wire the loco to install the decoder as you would for a DCC or battery R/C installation. That means less wiring, and can even be installed in a box car or something like that. 

With regard to how they sound in terms of fidelity, that's subjective. I recently reviewed the latest MyLocoSound board for _Garden Railways_, and was impressed with what you got for your money. You will be able to tell the difference between it and a Phoenix-equipped loco sitting next to it, but unless you're looking for absolute realism in your sound, it will likely work very well for your aural senses. The video linked above is pretty accurate in terms of what you hear from the system. (well, as accurate as a video recording of a 3" speaker taken 8' away can be.) Dallee, being digital, sounds good, but has a few drawbacks compared to Phoenix--the biggest one being that it's "monophonic," in that it can only play one sound at a time. That means when you blow the whistle or ring the bell, the chuff cuts out. Again, depending on your personal requirements for sound fidelity, that may not be a big deal. 

Later,

K


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Years ago I came to the conclusion that it is about impossible to predict what someone else will like in a sound system.

I have purchased sound systems that I thought were so bad that I sold them yet the people that bought them love them.

I have bought a wide variety of sound systems and found that even with the best there is no guarantee that I will like them. Sometimes to my ears less expensive systems sound better than the most expensive yet other times I find that I need the better brand to find what I like. For me a brand that sounds best in one locomotive may not sound equally good in a different type of locomotive.

My suggestion is not to buy an expensive sound system or even an inexpensive one until you have a chance to hear it and even then, how and where you install it can have a significant effect on the quality and volume of the sound that you get from it.

I'm no expert but there are a lot of people who know a lot about how to install the speaker which can be every bit as important as the sound unit.

To some people it is very important that the sound unit matches the original locomotive they are modeling. I don't have the skill to identify a locomotive by the sound I hear so I don't concern myself with it.

I hope you find what you are looking for.

Jerry


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

There are only two analog sound systems that I would put in my trains and both are no longer produced.

These would be the Phoenix Big Sound, and the Soundtraxx Sierra. Both give you the bells and whistles you want. The Phoenix has a nicer whistle (more dopper), but the Sierra has more cool stuff like Fireman Fred.

You hear Fred open the firebox door and shovel coal into the firebox. Meanwhile the lighting in the firebox brightens up as he opens the door and shovels the coal. Then you hear him slam the door and the firebox dims back down.

If the engine comes to rest and the power removed, you can hear him out lubbing the journals, etc. They include the dynamo whine and other assorted noises you would hear. Also, the engines lighting continues on after the power is removed from the rails. And there is a wide assortment of lighting styles available through the programming.

Phoenix also has cool stuff specific to the selected engine. For example, on their galloping goose card you hear the engineer open the car door, get in, slam the door and start up the engine before moving out. And the horn goes "arrooga!"

And both boards are POLYPHONIC! Really cool stuff! The Sierra (my choice) will also control your lighting and firebox flicker.

Back in the day the Sierra cost $150, whereas the Phoenix was about $225. You could buy three Sierras for the cost of two Phoeni. 

Now, you can sometimes find them used or on ebay. Sometimes you get really lucky. For example, someone who used to be in our club and was moving dontated a NEW (Unused) B'mann Shay, with a broken truck, that had a Sierra in it. At the club auction it all went for $50..., a steal! (Of course we didn't know there was a Sierra in it at the time so didn't pitch that aspect.) 

The going rate is in the $100-$150 for a used one on the 'bay.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

toddalin said:


> There are only two analog sound systems that I would put in my trains and both are no longer produced.
> 
> These would be the Phoenix Big Sound, and the Soundtraxx Sierra. Both give you the bells and whistles you want. The Phoenix has a nicer whistle (more dopper), but the Sierra has more cool stuff like Fireman Fred.
> 
> You hear Fred open the firebox door and shovel coal into the firebox. Meanwhile the lighting in the firebox brightens up as he opens the door and shovels the coal. Then you hear him slam the door................


Todd,

There is also a fireman on the Phoenix board. MAYBE NOT the Big Sound board, but on all boards since then. Opens the door.....starts shoveling and closes the door. The length of time for the sounds is adjustable. Same goes for the water fill......tender water hatch is opened.....water fills the tender and then the hatch is slammed down. Also adjustable time.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

ZImo is also polyphonic and programmable, can control lights and motor and give prototypical operation on the chuff, plus puffing smoke. Sellers can program these with what you want so you do not need the programmer to get started.
The MX695 has 3 input sensors, 4 servo outputs, smoke motor and heater controls (this works best under DCC control), 10 watts audio, 6 amp motor/10 amps peak current and 2 amps for lights, but total current is 6 amps for all outputs. All this for under $200.


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## Cataptrra (Mar 16, 2015)

jeffpas said:


> So its true that running analog with the Phoenix card you won't get all the bells and whistles?
> Not sure I got the part about Zimo, is this a standalone kit like MyLocoSound that you can program or customize the sounds on, or would you need additional parts. And would it have a remote.


I don't think that's true Jeff. I don't have the newest PSS{Phoenix} sound system, I have the old '97 type, but the horn, bell and Doppler can all be activated with a magnet in the tracks and reed switches mounted under the loco.

You should actually go to the Phoenix website, there you will find all the info on their current product line and sound samples to listen too.

But I still believe from what I'm almost 100% sure I read there, if you don't have a DCC equipped loco, the bell, horn and Doppler, as well as chuff can all be activated by reed switches and magnets. Phoneix supplies the reed switches and the magnets for the chuff, as they aren't the same size that you use in the track{roadbed} to activate the bell, horn/whistle or Doppler effect, which is quite cool to. If you use the Doppler, you have to request an additional reed switch from PSS though, they will supply it at no extra charge.

The Phoenix website url is: http://www.phoenixsound.com

All your questions about sound, how to activate them should all be covered in their FAQ section, if not, they'll answer any questions or concerns you might have, right down to helping you over the phone with the installation of their sound system.

Been using them for years in my trains, wouldn't use any other, PSS is definitely the most expensive, but then wouldn't the "Cadillac" of sound systems be just that? Just can't expect the best sound for a Yugo price. LOL


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I just saw an ad in the latest (October 15) issue of GR for Dallee's new sound board. It's polyphonic, with multiple whistles/horns, etc. to choose from. The price is now $150. 

Later,

K


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I have sent you a personal message.


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