# what mods for a 55 ton Shay ?



## veejo (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm a real newbie to G scale, although I have HO.

Thought I'd move to G scale as a local model railawy club has a huge outdoor track, and I have a 3 year old whose eyes light up when he sees them operate.

I just bought (waiting delivery from the USA, I'm in Australia) a new Bachmann 82499 Blk. Unlettered 55 Ton 3-Truck Shay. 
What will I need to do to get this unit up to scratch sound and control wise ? New decoder, sound card, voltage regulators, LEDS, etc ? Not sure if the unit has DCC and sound card or is just DCC ready with analog sound, or what ? My background is electronics, so soldering and reading circuits isn't an issue.

I also have an NCE Pro Cab DCC controller (yet to unpack), so DCC is probably how I would like to run it (whistle on demand, etc), or do most people just use radio control for compatability in clubs.

Are there any mechanical things I should tackle, lubrication, wiring upgrades, replace bushings with bearings, etc ?

All help greatly apprecaited


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Well before you do anything -first of all get your model.... The Shay is very cramped when it comes to places to put things -I should know I have built one!!! As to how to power it that does depend on your situation I personally would go for the simple route; fit a battery, an ESC and a DPDT switch -then simply watch it.

I would suggest that you live with your model for a few weeks before you spend any more money on it.


regards

ralph


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## dltrains (Jan 2, 2008)

Veejo, 

Since you mention an outdoor club that you seem to plan on working with, ask them what they use so you will be compatible if you decide to go that route.They might use track power or not have DCC. 
And Ralphs' answer gives you time to look into options before you spend money on things you won't use. 

Dave


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## veejo (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm going to the club this weekend. From my visit last year, they have bits of everything on the track including live steam. I guess what I was hoping to do is to start to research controllers and sound options (you can never know too much, unless it stops you making decisions), living in Australia, it's often quicker to order stuff from the USA than to wait for the local shop to get in a "special order". From my readings, it seems G scale options aren't as numerous as HO options for dcc and sound. If I have to open the shay to do work, I'd like to do it all right and in one go, as from what I've read, these things are heavy, and details easily damaged. 

Are there any mechanical / maintenance things I should also look at to extend longevity ? 

The long term goal (next 9 months) is 3 G scale engines, one will be a Bachmann thomas when they release it, very much to give my young son more of an interest, he loves chuffs and whistles (hence the shay). DCC in the Thomas (bachman claim q3 2009) that unit will enable me to limit the top speed, the sound will enable me to load the "Sodor theme song", and other stuff (will need to find a sound module I can load stuff into). 

The 3rd engine, probably just a bachmann 4-6-0, they're cheap, plentifull, and colourfull. Not sure if there are certain models to avoid, or if limited ed models are better. 

One of the nice things about G scale will be that the size makes them repairable. I'm trying to get my 3 yr old son to interested , understand that things can be fixed (he already says dady fix, not dady buy new one) in a society and market where most things are throw away. My interest in trains was rekindled, after being abandoned from my child hood at the age of 7 (i'm now 47) as a father & son activity. He might also abandon it at some stage, and also rekindle 40 years later, who knows.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Veejo 

While there is a lot to learn from the members of this site, join the local club and you'll most likely be able to get hands on experience. Maybe someone even has a 55 ton Shay that they have already modified. If so you can see what they've changed and how it worked. But like Ralph said, run it straight out of the box to begin with. If it doesn't run correctly to begin with, modifying a defective engine is just opening a can of worms when you have to trouble shoot to find the problem. 

Randy


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony has his RCS radio control system and it's made right there in Australia, check him out. Ads are on this page and in the advertisers section.


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## veejo (Apr 16, 2009)

I'm starting to see the benefits of RC, run it anywhere, on any system, and all the features. Pity I've only got an NCE procab, and not the radio version :-(


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

While I do not (yet) own the 55 tonner, I have seen it run on a number of occasions and discussed the model at length with their owners. I also own two of the smaller B'mann 2 truck versions. The 3 truck version has the B'mann new metal trucks which have resolved the problem that existed on the early 2 truck models. The owners I spoke with have all been very enthusiastic about their shays and have found them to be excellent runners.

Two suggestions came from those discussions - I am relating them 3rd hand as I do not own this loco. 

The first has to do with the single cut worms. The 3 truck shay is powerful and will haul an enormous train up a steep hill. But that same train coming downhill will cause the loco to lurch and buck. This problem exists on the 2 truck shays as well but is somewhat worse on the 3 trucker likely due to the size of train that most of us would want to put on the drawbar. This problem cannot be resolved short of all new gearing and it is mainly a cosmetic issue as the gears and drivetrain seem up to the lurches.

The second issue concerns the fascinating set of linkages between shay trucks. All three trucks are linked together and all three trucks are also driven independently each by its own motor. Should one motor operate slower or faster than the other two, there will be considerable strain on the linkage. While that has not been a problem to date, one owner was concerned enough over the eventuality that he removed one motor. He claimed the shay had more than enough pulling power anyway so the extra motor would not be missed. Maybe this owner is just being nervous for no reason as I have never heard of a damaged linkage on the third truck due to this reason.

You mention that you had an NCE ProCab. This is of course, DCC and you would need to install a DCC decoder in the loco. There are a number of choices but choose a high quality decoder capable of handling at least 5A (more would be better maybe even needed in this case) since there are three motors to drive. I assume your club has DCC on its rails and in fact the DCC is the NCE system. If your club does not have the NCE DCC then the ProCab will not work at the club. In DCC systems, the NMRA standard defines the decoder portion to be non proprietary but leaves the hand held throttles, any radio gear and the command station proprietary to the manufacturer.

Your comments about R/C seem to confuse DCC and R/C. They are quite separate. If you had radio capability on your ProCab, you would still need the NCE system command station (radio equipped) to talk to even though any brand of DCC decoder could be used in the shay. With battery/RC like the RCS system mentioned, the battery power is onboard the loco and a proprietary receiver/motor driver is installed in the loco as well. Now, assumeing you have isolated the loco from the track electrically, you can run anywhere on any layout (even as some will tell you on your kitchen tabletop). But keep in mind, this is a proprietary system and is not compliant with the NMRA DCC standard.

You have received what I think is good advice. Run your loco for a bit using straight track power to test it. Once you are satisfied that it is running smoothly and that you understand the lubing requirements, then you can select the control system of choice whether it be straight track power, DCC or one of the R/C options with or without batteries. Lastly, check out some of the magazines and the fine work here of various modellers to detail your shay to meet the service you intend her to be in from logging to quarrying to other industrial usage.

Remener ... you can never have too many shays ... Doug


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## veejo (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks for the advice, seems they have gotten most of the bugs out with the latest version (metal trucks), so I'II just enjoy it , and follow the owners manual. 

As to RC, think I'II hang back and wait for 2.4Ghz throttles to become mainstream, shorter antenna, and no crystals, etc. 

Pity the NMRAA didn't publish a standard for 2.4Ghz transmitters / receivers.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Veejo, 

I have recently purchased this model and am in the process of converting it to RC and Sound. Jerry is right, for your RC system definately check out Tony, he is right there in Australia and is very helpful. He is one of the two RC systems i am trying to choose from for my model, the other is Airwire. As far as sound goes I am sold on Phoenix. If you go with onboard battery, plan on setting the loco up so an battery car can be plugged in for long term running. 

Good Luck and have Fun, 
Chris


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## veejo (Apr 16, 2009)

as they say, luck beats skill everytime. 
I'm looking at the NCE Gwire (wireless pro cab), so I can go wireless, or us it as a normal wired DCC controller for either G, HO, or N scale, and only one system / controller layout to learn. , But because it's 900Mhz in radio mode, it might clash with some of the mobile phone frequencies used in Australia, so I'm a bit reluctant to be the first with one in Australia, unless it comes from the Australian distributor. 

Hmmm, use normal grease or teflon fortified


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

I have always used Labelle, Faller, Woodland Scenics, or LGB lubricants. They all offer good gear grease, conductive oil, and other lighter oil. Make sure if the lube is plastic safe if it is to be used on non metals. 

If you with to start adding sound and DCC to a locomotive I would suggest getting the Bachmann 4-6-0 (Anniversary edition). This is a much simpler and easy locomotive to work on. 

I purchased my 4-6-0 from eBay a couple of years back for under $100 US, it was very near new. 

I am in Australia an I purchase most of my large scale equipment from Gauge One Gallery, there prices for new equipment is very competitive to the US especially when you factor in postage and possible duty you may have to pay brining in an expensive loco such as the shay. Check out their web site http://www.gaugeonegallery.com and make sure you visit the special offers page. They can sell you an Anniversary edition 4-6-0. 

I do still order many items from the US, mainly sound and DCC equipment. 

Happy modelling 
Alan


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