# MASSOTH Pulsed Smoke Generator



## robsmorgan (Nov 29, 2009)

I want to see smoke coming out of my Anniversary Edition Annie - in time with the chuffs.... I believe this can be done if a smoke generator is wired in parallel to the bog standard Bachmann chuff sound card.

Has anyone fitted a *MASSOTH Pulsed Smoke Generator* to a Big Hauler and is it OK in the plastic boiler area?

Also not sure what the actual difference is between the Massoth model (19v) 8412201 and the 'new' high
performance model (19v) 8412401?

Any information would be very welcome

Thanks
Rob


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That does look like a good unit, but you'd think they could find someone in Germany who can write clear and coherent English! 

I read the manual--the "deluxe" version has a SUSI interface, which some decoder use, but which I've never encountered. 

What's not at all clear is how you trigger the pulse--the annie has a chuff cam built in, but it's not clear what you'd have to do to make that chuff cam play nice with the smoke unit.


----------



## robsmorgan (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks Lownote, 

as you say, it is very difficult to get detailed information for this product.... even the 'local' retailer doesn't provide much detail.


Rob


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Weird, I read the manual (on the original) a while ago, and noted the chuff input wire. The configuration was done by CVs, as it also has DCC capability. 

Can you provide links to the manuals? 

Regards, Greg


----------



## robsmorgan (Nov 29, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09 Jun 2010 07:45 AM 
Weird, I read the manual (on the original) a while ago, and noted the chuff input wire. The configuration was done by CVs, as it also has DCC capability. 

Can you provide links to the manuals? 

Regards, Greg 

Here you go Greg, not that I find it helpful - thanks for the interest though!

and this is apparently the English language link! 


http://www.massoth.com/index.en.html 


which leads to this:- 


http://www.massoth.com/dlbereich/down.php?kategorie=5&gruppe=38 


Rob


----------



## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

Have a look at this. May help. 
http://www.massoth.com/en/produkte/8412x01.en.php


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rob, your second link goes to a page with 3 links... the bottom link is the manual in english... you can even see that from the description in German. 

It looks pretty simple... 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys, 

I've got quite a bit of experience with this smoke maker, it's a great unit. If you want to talk to them directly, though, I strongly recommend you call their US office, Klaus, directly as he has probably put one in this train. They make a 5V unit and 19V unit, depending on whether or not your decoder can handle the current (ie the 19v unit


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Calling them gives you the advise you need to make it work correctly. They are very helpful when it comes to installs. Later RJD


----------



## robsmorgan (Nov 29, 2009)

Thanks Keith, 
I have converted my Bachmann Anniversary Edition Annie to RC, so have been trying to find someone with practical experience retro fitting the Massoth to the bog standard Bachmann soundcard chuff trigger.
I took the opportunity to copy your response onto GSCentral in the UK to help answer other related questions.

Thanks again
Rob


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Rob, 

Is the Bachmann sound trigger just a reed switch or some sort of optical device? I think this is definitely a "call Klaus" situation because if you know the details on the type of trigger he can tell you exactly how to wire it, or retrofit with their axle/magnet/hall sensor. 

Good luck with it, hope you get it working because it sure is a neat unit. 

Keith


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I contacted Klaus a couple weeks ago and asked if the optical sensor from the B'mann K-27 would work to trigger the sync'd chuff, at first he said no but then contacted the engineers in Germany and they think yes. So, my guess is it would work for you also. I'm looking at the high output model, just in stock this month.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The annie uses a simple contact "switch", one side to ground, the other to the massoth input. The K27 has the optical devices which need a certain minimum voltage to work, and the "sense" of the output is backwards, but the transitions will probably make it work, if not, use the same inverting transistor idea that is on the various sites. 

Please post some videos of the high output version, that will be interesting to see. What is the cost of the unit? 

Regards, Greg


----------



## robsmorgan (Nov 29, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10 Jun 2010 10:08 AM 
The annie uses a simple contact "switch", one side to ground, the other to the massoth input. The K27 has the optical devices which need a certain minimum voltage to work, and the "sense" of the output is backwards, but the transitions will probably make it work, if not, use the same inverting transistor idea that is on the various sites. 

Please post some videos of the high output version, that will be interesting to see. What is the cost of the unit? 

Regards, Greg 

Thanks for all the information Guys...... Re your question about the high output version Greg, I asked my local retailer what the difference was but didn't get any information that wasn't on the data sheets you pointed me to at Massoth..... But promise to post details & vid when I have something solid!!


Rob


----------



## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

The "hall sensor from massoth fit 5mm axle only!!!!


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

The "hall sensor from massoth fit 5mm axle only!!!! 

I'm assuming you mean the magnet wheel that comes with the kit? It has a slot to fit the generic axle they send, but since the magnet wheel is round on the outside, you can machine out the middle to whatever size you want, or use your own magnets. If you use your own magnets/wheel you would just need to test it to find out the optimum distance/spacing, but you should still be able to make it work since the actual sensor is a separately mounted unit. 

Keith


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By robsmorgan on 10 Jun 2010 10:49 AM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10 Jun 2010 10:08 AM 
The annie uses a simple contact "switch", one side to ground, the other to the massoth input. The K27 has the optical devices which need a certain minimum voltage to work, and the "sense" of the output is backwards, but the transitions will probably make it work, if not, use the same inverting transistor idea that is on the various sites. 

Please post some videos of the high output version, that will be interesting to see. What is the cost of the unit? 

Regards, Greg 

Thanks for all the information Guys...... Re your question about the high output version Greg, I asked my local retailer what the difference was but didn't get any information that wasn't on the data sheets you pointed me to at Massoth..... But promise to post details & vid when I have something solid!!


Rob 


Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 09 Jun 2010 04:35 PM 
{snip...}[/i] The high performance unit you refer to is an improved wick design. {snip...}[/i]

Massoth - Heating elements for pulsed smoke generator
Wick & Heating Element - 5V / 19V / 19V-HP (High Performance)[/b]


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like the high performance also comes from a second heating element in parallel... guess it will draw more current... may have to get one... 

"vertile" must mean "vertical" 

Regards, Greg


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't know about that, but Google's translation of the German label for the part...

Ersatz-Heizelement hochergiebig
is...
Replacement heating element high yield


----------



## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

Does the oil sit on the circuit boards on the inside of these units? Do you pour oil through a fan to get it in?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, no... 

Reservoir with a wick, fan on other end I believe. 

I have never seen a unit where the fluid sits on the board, although the board is usually on top of the reservoir. Most units have the fan pressurize the reservoir / heating chamber. 

Now I've asked the questions literally, what are you "getting after"? Reliability? Fluid damage to components? 

Regards, Greg


----------



## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Can this be connected to a QSI to control the chuff. Jake


----------



## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

I've never seen one in person. Just curious how you fill it (and keep it from spilling all over).


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The QSI does not have a chuff output. You would either use chuff contacts/reed switch/hall effect sensor to input to BOTH QSI and smoke unit, or you would put Massoth unit on "autochuff", I believe. Greg Posted By bdp3wsy on 28 Dec 2010 07:20 PM 
Can this be connected to a QSI to control the chuff. Jake


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

These are nice units...........


----------



## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

I actually like it better without the high vertile feature. Here are some videos I found. Based on it not being mentioned in the video description, I'm assuming the Stainz in this first video does not have it. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLR6ETjA36k 

Compare that to the Frank S model here: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6d63Y9peBXI 

at idle and slow speed at least, the high vertile model seems to shoot the smoke up too straight for my taste. The non high vertile billows out more like a real steam engine. The fan also sounds pretty noisy in either case. 

here's a k-27 equipped with the unit. according to the description its "modified" to be synced to the axel magnets that work the sound system chuffs. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPfU3ZCYuMk


----------

