# AD60



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

After months of waiting, my Aster AD60 kit finally arrived. Opening the box for the first time was disappointing - no evidence of the little blue boxes that Aster normally use to struture the bags of parts - everythiing simply thrown into togther. Not surprising that there have been reports of damage to some components during transit.

I've now completed the two engine frames and running gear. The dummy suspension was problematic as the securing nuts fouled the wheels - I reinstalled about 10 times convinced I was missing something until I noticed an emailed errata that said - "if the nuts foul the wheels, file them off!! 

I have pictures that I woiuld be happy to post if anyone is interested.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Congrats! 
Of course we want pics, what kind of question is that? lol


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert
Yes, please post!


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## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

My friend and I picked up an AD60 only today from Andrew Pullen.
Please keep us posted as I could be asking him for a MASSIVE discount on my next engine!
main131


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

The little blue boxes where deleted in efforts to reduce the shipping costs..air frieght is worked on cubic measure and Aster where striving valiantly to keep the final price as low as posssible , faced with the appreciating Yen and falling currency values in US .UK and Oz. 

Im building one next week and will post any heads up notes here. 

Gordon.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert, 

Will you bring the AD60 to the National Summer Steamup at Sacramento? 

Steve


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Pictures:

1. The box :-(
2. The full engine ready for timing and air test 
3. Detail of the cylinders etc


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Air tests are complete! A bit stiff but both engines running well in forward and reverse. 

The setup for the air test is to use the flexible steam coupling from a later stage of the kit - this is a very tight fit and when I removed it, I pulled off the fitting from the main steam tube which is secured only by a gland nut and an o-ring. Some reassembly later, I have everything back together but will need to find a permanent fix as I think the flexible coupling is designed to come apart to allow the cab/boiler to be separated from the engines..


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Roibert, your comments re Blue Boxes are noted but as Gordon (Taperpin) says, we are struggling hard to keep all costs down in these difficult times.

I know of two AD60's completed so far in the UK although neither have been steamed yet.

Andrew


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Andrew, thanks for explaining why the little blue bixes went away. I guess I'd got used to thw "wow" factor when I first opened the Aster box.

I'm proceeding as fast as work commitments will allow - generally it is going well although the suggested order of the build is not always especially logical - it would (for example) been much easier to install the brakes before fitting the cylinders and rods.

Putting the two engines together makes you realize what a big beast this will be when finished.

Robert


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Feel free to slap me around the head, but I'm having terble trouble reconciling the words 'economy' with 'Aster Hobby Co.'

It's a bit like buying a Rolex and getting it in a brown paper bag.









tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

;-) or in a newspaper... Zubi


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac (Terry), 

A little bit of research has shown that on balance customers (as opposed to observers - no slight intended) would prefer to save some money and not have a fancy box. As you will see from Zephyra, he says that opening the AD60 box lacked the Wow factor. I can see that he is correct but how much is that Wow factor worth? As always, we note customers comments both positive and negative and try to respond thoughtfully. 

So Tac if you fancy an AD60 kit I'll get it packaged up really neat just for you!

Andrew


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm shaking my head on some of the comments about Aster on this forum and this thread -- especially in light of the current economic situation. First people complain at the rising cost of Aster products when compared to the competitors, and now they complain when Aster takes some simple and logical steps to control expense growth. While I can understand the Rolex and brown bag analogy, I think that probably there are more of us that would rather have a premium Aster product at a reasonable cost and not waste money on showy packaging -- something that's forgotten and discarded after the locomotive is built (with Rolex we keep the boxes!). How many people do you think really appreciated the oversized and under-engineered wooden box that the Alleghenys came in? Wouldn't you rather have kept in your pocket the $300+ it cost? The blue boxes are no different. And I for one would rather see Aster control costs by cutting such frills as fancy packaging rather than cut costs by skimping on the actual locomotive product. 

All that being said, I should acknowledge that Aster still has to do a quality job of packing the kits to avoid damage. As long as they accomplish that goal, the blue boxes and their additional cost I can do without. 

Ross Schlabach


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Since the thread is continuing on with cost cutting.... could this be the last kit? As I understand, for Aster, to produce kits cost more than the RTR.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Probably not the blue boxes that are the cost savings rather the labor cost to pack them? 

A blue box is still the symbol of Tiffany's. Try giving a little blue box to your wife, and I'll bet you can buy any loco you want.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I've got a few blue boxes laying around, if someone wants to make me an offer...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If you really want some genuine Aster blue boxes, I have a set left over from one of my Mikes I built (I am keeping the other set to hold bits and bobs I have for the engines).... 

Shall I auction them off???? 

Okay... 

Let's hear some bids... 

Who'll start off at $10.00 each?


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

We all put value on different things. The blue boxes to me symbolize the care that went into packing the kit, rather than that I like little blue boxes (of which I have plenty). Call me shallow.... 

Meanwhile back at the build, front engine is now complete with water tank etc. I was a bit surprised to have to bend the copper tube connecting the steam pipe to the displacement lubricator as it so easy to kink these very thin tubes but I built a rough jig and applied heat to got a good result. 

Rear engine needs a rebuild after I realized I'd inserted one of the frames the wrong way round :-( My excuse is that I was over zealous in following the instruction that says the rear engine is a mirror image of the front - I don't think this can be the case as some of the key assymetric components (eg exhaust manifold) are one handed. 

Robert 


Robert


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, guys, so now you've combined a few slaps around the head [expected] with a poke at my less-than-pecunious views [not expected].

It's pretty well-known that I'm not only much laid down with poverty, having to live, for various reasons, in this country, but offering me a golden present knowing that I could never take up the offer iis going a bit far.

As has been pointed out to me on occasions, particularly when my Japanese OS PCs don't show emoticons, that there was a very clear







in my post. It was intended to be mildy humorous, not to start a war between the 'haves' and 'have not's and get all deadly serious. 

Please carry on building the beautiful AD60, Sir, and I promise not to make any more comments of any kind.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 06/22/2009 2:02 PM
OK, guys, so now you've combined a few slaps around the head [expected] with a poke at my less-than-pecunious views [not expected].

It's pretty well-known that I'm not only much laid down with poverty, having to live, for various reasons, in this country, but offering me a golden present knowing that I could never take up the offer iis going a bit far.

As has been pointed out to me on occasions, particularly when my Japanese OS PCs don't show emoticons, that there was a very clear







in my post. It was intended to be mildy humorous, not to start a war between the 'haves' and 'have not's and get all deadly serious. 

Please carry on building the beautiful AD60, Sir, and I promise not to make any more comments of any kind.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/



"deadly serious" ???? Who is serious? I am never serious... seriously... never!


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd never have started this thread if I thought it would descend into a slanging match about little blue boxes.... 

Anyway, a serious question and looking for advice from anyone who owns/runs any sort of garratt. The steam pipe for the rear engine is routed back through the primary fire tube and the firebox (so far so good). This is terminated in a brass fitting in the cab with a banjo bolt that is in turn linked to the steam pipe that runs the length of the engine. My worry is that when the super-heated steam hits a brass fitting of relatively large mass, it will rapidly cool and this is even before it runs the length of the engine to get to the cylinders. 

Am I over-thinking this or is it likely that the rear engine will never perform as well as the front where the steam has less distance to travel and there isn't a big brass fitting in the way?


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

From what you described, the answer would appear to be yes. However I am not sure why it would matter that much. The big boy and allegheny front engines receive hotter less saturated steam then the rear engine. Its the nature of the system, not a flaw in the design. Yet they run very well, as does the only AD60 I have seen run. 

I actually consider it a benefit, not a detriment. The plumes from the rear engine on my locomotive look great.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Ready for the steam test - went OK but a number of leaks to deal with in the tenders - I tried to be sparing with the silicone caulk but was obviously too sparing. But progress nevertheless.... The rear engine runs much better than the front which is opposite of what I expected.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Robert, 
youre way in front of me! Im just past the chassis stage.. but have done the boiler /fittings /casings out of order and the tanks as well.I wonder if the better running of the rear unit is the result of drier steam from the firebox transit of the steam pipe rather than the "loop" in the flue of the front units pipe? ive never noticed any difference on the track.. 
I rode one of these in service in the 60s..the best description is it was like standing inside the throat of a volcano! 

Gordon.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Sir - I can't comment on the AD60, but I am well-qualified to comment on my little AccuCraft Garratt. My Garratt tends to slip the rear engine first. 

Good luck with YOUR Garratt.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon, I think the reason the front engine was not running well was as simple as a dragging brake shoe. I'll try again this evening now that I've fixed the various leaks from the tender.

Robert


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

The plot thickens on the relative performance of the two engines and I think I've tracked the cause to the exhausts. Both engines have relief/drain valves on the exhausts close to the cylinders. If these are open then the exhaust just vents under the engine. If closed, the exhausts run back to the smoke box. For the front engine, the pipe run is pretty direct - a neoprene tube to a connector and then another neoprene tube to the exhaust nozzle in the smokebox. For the rear engine, it rather more complex - neoprene tube to a connector, another neoprene tube to a brass pipe that runs along the bottom of the boiler frame, then another neoprene tube to the exhaust nozzle. The net impact is that the exhaust back pressures seems far higher for the rear engine given my highly qulaitative test of blowing into both tubes.

The net effect is that opening the relief/drain valves has a huge impact on the relative performance of the engines. With the valve open for the rear engine and closed for the front, the performance seems balanced with enough draugh tfrom the front engine to keep the fire going. With both closed, the front engine does all the work as the rear engine struggles to overcome the exhaust back pressure.

Clearly more work to do - I need to make sure that the higher exhaust back pressure for the rear engine is just a result of the routing of the pipe work and there is no debris or other blockages. 

Add the twin axle pumps into the mix and the story gets really complex!


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Managed to coax her round a couple of laps of my track - axle pumps not working to well so back on rollers. Re-seated the stainless steel balls and stretched the small springs holding the balls in place and seems much better.

Two photos - if I managed to get the hang of this new-fangled software . One on rollers with both engines nicely balanced. The other a sideways on view with all dummy pipework (my least favorite bit) finished.....


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