# Good Idea, Bad Idea?-Lionel Brass Track Layout Outside



## Steamer91 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hello all,

I've got a ton of Lionel brass track on hand (as well as a little bit of LGB and other makes I got when I was getting started into garden railroading) both old and new, and as my main garden railroad project at the moment uses all aluminum track, I'm a bit put out on what exactly to do with it all, since I've been informed that you can't mix brass and aluminum because it will cause a chemical reaction and it'll all end in tears.

So, since I've been engaged in clearing up the outside of my house, I've found a little spot in front of my porch that'd make a nice place to put a small railroad, so I've been kicking around the idea of putting in a simple layout as a sort of branch line for the big layout up on posts back in the back yard. Is this a good idea, or am I wasting my time and I should just put the lot up for sale on Ebay since I don't have a use for it otherwise? All my engines are live steam, and any visiting engines would have to be the same or use battery power, so electrical conductivity isn't an issue for me, particularly as the track weathers out in the open, all I want from it is to stay put in the ballast and carry the trains.

As for the layout, I'm thinking on a simple figure "8" that crosses over itself (both for scenic reasons and to save on buying an expensive crossing track piece) with a siding or two for operational interest, and perhaps with an extension in the future that will see it going through the flower bed along the front of the house and into a turnaround loop that runs around the greenhouse which sits next to it. Although all my engines can get around the short Lionel curves, I'm thinking of saving those for the sidings and getting a set of 8ft diameter curves from another maker like Bachmann to make the curvature gentler and allow for larger locomotives either as visitors or should I fancy getting something bigger myself.

Your thoughts, gents?

Cheers,
Brendan O.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

While I think the brass would be OK outdoors I would be more concerned about the plastic ties breaking down from UV radiation. Does anyone know how safe this stuff is long term?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

You can get a UV spray I believe Krylon had one.
But is the track hollow brass or just steel plated to look like brass.
I would only use solid rail outdoors as someone will step on it sooner or later or drop something heavy on it.
PS, Lionel G switches I saw were solid brass rail, just the sectional track was hollow.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Brendan,

i believe as Vic has stated the larger issue is the deterioration of the plastic ties under the affect of UV. There are a number of folks who paint their ties (regardless of mfgr). Painters tape down the rial and a UV protected paint works well. Yes it is a bit of extra effort, but it depends on what you want for the long run.

As to the 'galvanic action' caused by the differing materials, someone overstated the issue. Galvanic action only occurs at the juncture where the two materials contact one another AND there is water in the joint. This condition will obviously happen in outdoor railroading. Galvanic action occurs regardless of the materials involved, the level of deterioration of the materials depends on what they are. In your case, if you use a stainless steel Split Jaw or Hillman rail clamp in lieu of the standard slip on clamp and use a 'conductive' grease at assembly the rail and joint should stand up much longer than you think.


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## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

You could place a sacrificial electrode at the junction, like lump of zinc.


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## Steamer91 (Oct 13, 2011)

Well, it'd take a lot of zinc to sacrifice for 100+ feet of track, and what about the locomotive and rolling stock wheels, which themselves are made of metal as well?

I confess my knowledge here is very rudimentary, for this is all my first whack at building a garden railroad, and all I knew to start with was that you shouldn't mix brass and aluminum. Originally, all of this was a moot point, for all I had was brass that I'd been buying a little bit at a time as the budget allowed and was occasionally given as presents for things like X-mas, and my original railroad was to be a very modest affair similar to what I'm contemplating doing with all my brass stuff.

To make a long story short, a contact/friend of mine who's also into live steam gave me about 3/4 of his big railroad up on posts that had aluminum track and I've spent the last five years trying to rebuild a portion of it after having taken it all apart, carted it home one ATV load at a time, then got to work putting it all back together, and I'm still a long way away from finishing it, partly due to circumstances beyond my control, and partly due to the fact it's so time-consuming and hard on my budget to re-construct (a lot of what's there is old as has needed to be replaced from scratch).

I'm not averse to a bit of work, but after all this time, I really just want something I could get going in a few weekends as a morale booster, it doesn't have to be the finest thing in the world, and I'm not afraid of making a few mods to the track (the UV paint is a good idea for the ties), it just has to be functional track to run the steam engines over from time to time instead of having them sit on a shelf all the time.


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## tomplatten (Sep 12, 2008)

I used Lionel track on my garden loop for seven years because it was cheaper than LGB. I paid the price over time. LGB track is far superior to Lionel. I had constant derailments with the Lionel track. The track pins eventually rusted away as well. I finally bit the bullet and slowly replaced the Lionel track with LGB starting with the curves. Now even my Bachmann 4-6-0's stay on the track!


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

If you wiki galvanic corrosion, there is a table of materials with their respective voltages ( dissimilar metals make rudementary batteries ) 

In a nutshell, from that table, the closer the voltage the better the 2 metals will coexist and not corrode each other.

The further apart they are the stronger the reaction is and the more one of the metals will corrode. 

This will only happen in the presence of an electrolite, one of which is salt. 

If you want to protect copper or brass you can use aluminum. The aluminum will corrode away and need to be replaced periodically.

The site below ( copy and paste the http ) has a great explanation that's fairly simple.

https://www.fastenal.com/content/feds/pdf/Article - Corrosion.pdf


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Live steam.
Well.........................., other than the labor invested and the potential for ill fitting joints and lost ties, I might give it a go.

OTOH, 

Overall, good track work and joints are the foundation for enjoyment.
I would not want my LS locos being derailed and exposed to potential damage as a result.

Sometimes inexpensive isn't in the long run. Truly, given the amount of work that even the most basic track work involves.

I would venture too, that a X crossing versus an up and over figure 8 might be better suited for live steam, provided the crossing doesn't give issues in tracking.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Still waiting on the answer: is this lionel brass track hollow or solid?

Big difference


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I had some hollow Lionel brass track (2ft sections?) on my old layout in a few places. I removed the pins and used standard brass rail joiners instead. The rails and ties held up well in shady outdoor conditions. I don't know about full sun..as I didn't have any. I also had some Lionel R1 switches which were solid brass and very reliable (for R1s). 

On a raised layout the hollow Lionel track might be okay as it will be supported from below keeping the joints even. 

For ground level layouts, I would suggest code 332 aluminum in long sections as a starting point. Code 250 and 332 solid brass would be great and greater respectively. Code 250 and 332 Stainless would be greater yet and ultimate respectively (possibly overkill). 

Perhaps the Lionel track could be used on sidings, staging tracks, and storage areas.


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