# Tie solvent/adhesive question



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I broke a tie on a switch, right where the switch machine screws on. I was hoping to solvent-weld it back together, with some backing plastic strip.

The solvents I have on hand don't work with this material though. What are the ties made of, and can someone recommend a solvent that I can use? 

Thanks,
Cliff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

Some of our plastics are hard to glue. My suggestion would be to get a small plastic bar that fits inside the tie and then epoxy it to the underside of the tie. JB weld seems to have a very secure bond. I think that you need to add strength to the repair like a plastic bar, or a piece of metal. My thought is that without a backing it will keep breaking.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi Chuck, thanks for the advice. I've tried a number of solvents on test pieces, none have worked... I have Gorilla glue test in progress, but it's an adhesive, not a solvent. I've not tried JB weld on any plastics, maybe there's a special formulation for that, I'll have to look. 

Regardless, I agree, the backing bar is clearly in order. I suppose my last resort is a solid bar that is close to the tie's internal height/width, and drill & screw the bits to that....


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

I was about to suggest getting a good fit with a plastic bar and then use small bolts and nuts to secure it to tie. Then I thought about the epoxy.

You could also just fill the tie with epoxy.

Chuck


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

When I get broken ties on my turnouts, I cut a piece of redwood that fits securely inside the pieces, coat it with Marine Goop, and press it in place.

If the track is coming up (fish plate broken), I'll use small nails to stake the rail to the redwood within the plastic.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd

In the west redwood holds up very well in contact with the ground, which gets wet only occasionally. In Virginia, I've had redwood furniture rot when in contact with damp ground. That is why I suggested plastic or metal. 

Redwood would last for a few years, but plastic or metal should be more permanent.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd use a hard plastic, and screw through the ties to hold it in place if you cannot find a good glue.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For LGB plastic I scrape the outer coating off leaving a rough surface instead of the smooth surface to enable glue/epoxy to stick better.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for all the ideas guys. I probably have some plastic bar or brass tube lying around that I can glue in & screw into. Good idea on the roughing up Dan.

The plastic sort of feels like polyethylene, and if so, that's always tough to "weld" to. We've used it at work, and it required a mechanical welding process, solvents didn't work.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

If you set some screws down from the top of the tie and then filled the space on the underside with epoxy, I doubt it would ever come apart. 

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That's a really nice idea. I can see putting in some #4 or #6 SS screws, and further wiring (with SS or copper wire) the exposed threads together from below. That would reinforce across the break, and give additional material for the epoxy to flow around.

Thanks Chuck---
Cliff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You are welcome!

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Well, here's what I did.

First off, I removed the turnout entirely. The situation turned out to be pretty bleak, because (1) there are holes in the tie at the rail crossing, and (2) there is a notch just above the hole for the frog-wiring rod. In other words, very little plastic is keeping the tie together here in the first place. 










I learned that due to the frog rod, it's hard to lay a decent cross-section of plastic bar thru the break. And, on the inside of the break, I couldn't put screws in from above, because of the point rails sliding back and forth.

But, I dived in anyway. Per Dan, I roughed the interior surfaces up with an Xacto, and, like Chuck suggested, put some (SS pan head) screws in.










Then I took some stranded copper wire and tied the pieces together.










Finally, I lobbed in the JB Weld (Chuck's idea). I only had the "steel" formulation oh hand, but it'll probably be fine. The stranded wire should act like mini rebar within it, and give the JB that much more to grab.










I'm not real happy that my switches are fragile like this, right where the switch machine is attaching and adding its own stresses. But oh well.

Cliff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

Looks good. Do you know how it broke? Did someone step on it? I'm not familiar with those switches, but it looks as if the slot for the bar is a major weak point in the design.

Chuck


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The newer version of this switch has a smaller wire and the slot is no where as deep.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Chuck, I probably snagged a power cord on the switch machine, or hit it with my shoe or a rake or something. It's connected to that weak point, so... 

That's good to hear, Dan. It would be nice if TL45 offered a simple reinforcement casting or other fix to strengthen the area on these (slightly) older units. Regardless, I'm still planning on buying more, mainly because of the plated brass: so very little cleaning necessary. So I'm happy that this design flaw has been corrected.


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