# Art Knapps Steamup



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Our enthusiastic G1RLS and BOYS group got together at Art Knapps, in Surrey, BC, Canada, to make use of the two clubs portable tracks while they are up.
We all had a wonderful time.
At least I did, and I think that the others did too.

All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David 

Nice venue. Looks like the "green" modules are kept together with latches and set on steel saw horses. Is that right? They must weigh more than a few pounds each with the fascia boards. Are they all wood, or something else? In any case, they look great. 

Regards


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Jim, 
I'll let Dan Pantages give you the detailed description of the track's construction, since it took place in his garage. 
For those who don't know, Art Knapps is a garden centre, (who also sell garden railway stuff) and the covered area where the track are set up is where they normally have all the spring, summer and fall plants for sale.
It is a little 'tilted' hence the tracks are likewise! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

V. majestic run-by's from the RH and '49, with some great views of the other stock. 

Thanks for posting. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the great video. Like that SP daylight train. Tables are really nice looking also. Later RJD


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

What an excellent video, great trains. As a botanist by profession I always loved greenhouses in the winter. Very nice.
Paul


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## Ding Dong (Sep 27, 2010)

Thanks for posting David. 
There are five other videos on Youtube of this event under the heading of Time For Trains. Looks loike a really wonderful event.


Rob Meadows
Los Angeles


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

It's fun to listen for the kid's comments in the background. Here is a video of Will Lindley and myself running Asters at a train show in Seline, Michigan, a couple Decembers ago. As my Duchess passes, in the background, you can hear a little kid saying, "Maybe next time could you buy one like this for Christmas... and that green one too?"

Sure kid!


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom;

Mom & Dad could probably do it, providing the trains were Hornby OO sparkies.








They would just have to beat me to the Malacite Bullied Pacific! Still regret selling my OO version of that locomotive.

Best,
David Meashey


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Great videos---those 0-6-0's look like smooth running little engines....sorry I couldn't make it. And was that Dwight's loco I saw there??? 

Keith


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 28 Jan 2011 01:14 PM 
Great videos---those 0-6-0's look like smooth running little engines....sorry I couldn't make it. And was that Dwight's loco I saw there??? 

Keith 
No, just an electric 'look-alike'!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Ahhh...that explains it, thanks David. 

Keith


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Having spend another week of what free time and extra energy I had shoveling snow,ice, along with slush: I would love to find a green house to set up the portable but I'll just have to enjoy the video from tropical Canada

Another 13+ inches


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Some great vids there from Art Knapp's - especially like the mix of sparkie and steam categories, and deeply in love with the little live-steam Heisler I think I saw for a few seconds. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tac, the Heisler is mine. It's one of six that Jim Hadden made some years ago. When he finished the Heisler project he started the Ditcher project, it was finished September 2010. With the Heisler running on a flat track I get between 40 and 50 minutes out of it.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Dear Mr Pantages - do not worry, your Heisler is quite safe from my envious clutches, after all, most of the time I'm at least 6500 miles away. 

It's when we are over the WA and OR that you'll need to start looking over your shoulder. ;=) 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Ding Dong on 28 Jan 2011 09:55 AM 
Thanks for posting David. 
There are five other videos on Youtube of this event under the heading of Time For Trains. Looks loike a really wonderful event.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/e0Fj6veQIyw" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen>

Rob Meadows
Los Angeles
Looks to me that you guys were all having far too good of a time there at Mr Knapps!! I looked at the vids and left a couple of + comments, BTW. Just wished we'd been there.

OT, we have a few garden centres local to us here in rural Cambs, most of which are positively enormous, even by Canadian/US standards. When they opened up their latest branch outside our town a couple of years ago, I approached them and asked if they had ever givne any thoughts to having a train section - with a covered space of almost 3 acres, and associated garden plants areas about half that big, it seemed like a plan to me. The guy told me to write head office, which I did, with plans and impressions as well as the positive sides of having such a venture in the correct surroundings. I even mentioned Mr Knapp's success in bringing two hobbies like this together, the synergy working out for both.

Never heard a word back.

Lost opportunity is what I'd call it. 

Best

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

You are very correct, lost opportunity for them. The train department at AK's has cost me many dollars, when I go my wife always wants to come, I talk trains and she buys all the other stuff they sell.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Ding Dong on 28 Jan 2011 09:55 AM 
Thanks for posting David. 
There are five other videos on Youtube of this event under the heading of Time For Trains. Looks loike a really wonderful event.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/e0Fj6veQIyw" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen>

Rob Meadows
Los Angeles
Rob
Yes, this and the other video shows indicate a wonderful event especially for "kids of all ages!!"


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

It was a very well attended event and Art Knapps and the two clubs involved should feel proud of themselves. 
If I am to be critical, it is that the tracks were both designed with electric running in mind. 
The baseboards are too wide, have buildings on then and also the one track has a yard sticking out in the middle, making it very difficult to run manually controlled live steam, when there is a large crowd around. 
If you are on the outside, there is no way to walk around with your train, so you have to have faith in your loco and the track, and that youngsters aren't going to stick their fingers on your hot engine! 
If you are on the inside it is sometime a reach to get to your loco, but better. 
Thursday was great because it was just us steamers and you could easily walk around with your train if you needed to. 
I am now looking forward to the next sunny day when we can all gather at Dan Pantages' track for some steam. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Did I miss the dimensions of the layout. Length of the modules and diameter of the curves. Sure looks like fun.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

No, I guess that Dan Pantages has yet to respond to the second and third postings on this thread. 
But I'm sure he will. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Here is the 'master plan' of the green layout seen in the videos.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it's clear enough from the drawing, it's not that accurate but it gives you the idea. There are two 1 inch plastick dowels in each end to line up the sections and track.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

and another drawing of the 'green' track.
More like it actually is. 
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Dream layouts....sigh....... 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I was wondering if there was any method for adjusting height, in order to level the tracks.

Since we, (The Michigan Small Scale Live Steamers), often run outdoors, where the terrain can be anything, our club portable has both coarse and fine height adjustments. It usually takes us about an hour to set up and level, using a laser level. In order to have continuous access to the outside of the layout, and to keep little fingers from getting burned, we cordon off about a 3 foot area around the track, as you can see in this picture...
















If you look carefully you can see the coarse adjustments, (the holes with the pin), and the top of the fine adjustment, (the screw), at the bottom of the leg.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

We do not have adjustments built in. We have a milk carton of blocks that we use to level the track, it's not perfect but it was a compromise because we used metal sawhorses for the legs. We made a deal with Canadian Tire and bought 35 of them for $7 each. They are very sturdy and fold up small, they clip together two at a time, with a handle, go on a cart which rolls into the trailer. We do not use a barrier; for the most part it's not been a problem and the kids feel they’re part of it. It’s 32” high so it’s easy for the kids to see everything and for the children that are too small to see we try and have a bench with a back on it facing away so they can stand on it, hold onto the back and see. Yesterday I was at AK’s for a short time and there was a little guy whose chin was table top level, I suggested he use the bench but no, that was for the little ones. Another older boy was beside him and I heard the small one say “don’t touch, they’re hot and they cost a lot of money”, the older boy said OK.


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## Ding Dong (Sep 27, 2010)

Dan,
In the second diagram showing the steam-up area, is that a travellor that you use?

Rob Meadows
Los Angeles


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

We also use a stand for the kids. Here are my grand kids on the stand...


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 30 Jan 2011 11:28 AM 
We do not have adjustments built in. We have a milk carton of blocks that we use to level the track, it's not perfect but it was a compromise because we used metal sawhorses for the legs. We made a deal with Canadian Tire and bought 35 of them for $7 each. They are very sturdy and fold up small, they clip together two at a time, with a handle, go on a cart which rolls into the trailer. We do not use a barrier; for the most part it's not been a problem and the kids feel they’re part of it. It’s 32” high so it’s easy for the kids to see everything and for the children that are too small to see we try and have a bench with a back on it facing away so they can stand on it, hold onto the back and see. Yesterday I was at AK’s for a short time and there was a little guy whose chin was table top level, I suggested he use the bench but no, that was for the little ones. Another older boy was beside him and I heard the small one say “don’t touch, they’re hot and they cost a lot of money”, the older boy said OK. Dan
On the 3rd version of our portable layout we used the metal sawhorse. In order to get more adjustment we drills addition holes into the extension pieces and frames. The down side was at one point in the height adjustment the extension portion had to be turned around (no longer able to use the built in catch for the large rectangle holes) thus having to purchase longer bolts. The upside is that we could make height adjustments on any surface. The real pain the set up is having to adjust four legs per section. As with all things there are positive and negative aspects to designs.


As you can see from the legs in the background all the large rectangle holes are not engaged.










Having moved from a "frame less" track to a traditional track frame we are now used adjustable leg posts (2 per board except 4 at starting point):


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

That Steam-up yard is the transfer/turntable I built. There's a video on the net some place but I can't find it. I can't put pictures up so I will send a picture of it to you Rob.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 30 Jan 2011 01:49 PM 
That Steam-up yard is the transfer/turntable I built. There's a video on the net some place but I can't find it. I can't put pictures up so I will send a picture of it to you Rob. 
Dan
Given your kindness in having introduced me to your masterpiece of the transfer/turntable (I recently built), here is your video on how to:


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## Ding Dong (Sep 27, 2010)

Charles, 
your a scholar and a gentleman!

Dan,
An ingenius design! Calypso really knows how to make an entrance with matching black and white outfits. A nice touch!

Rob Meadows
Los Angeles


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Believe me; the transfer/turntable is better than my acting and camera work.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, 

You been nominated for an Oscar yet? Uh..wait. This pertains to live steam. The Academy Awards are mostly about hot air. 

Thanks for the fine video presentation anyway. Appreciate the creativity and the extra effort to show us how. 

Regards, 
Steve


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