# I never want to clean track again!



## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Lol, my question to the experts is this: if one were to start from scratch with their engines and never wanted to clean track... What should they get and do?


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Battery power R/C ! No matter who's system you buy, it's better than the alternatives (IMO of course).


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TheFishGuy on 17 Sep 2013 08:05 PM 
Lol, my question to the experts is this: if one were to start from scratch with their engines and never wanted to clean track... What should they get and do? This is a "minefield" around here. "Step through at your own risk." 

Battery/RC for me. May the "dark force" be with you. It will be interesting to see where this thread goes.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Live steam, never charge batteries again!
The dirty track is good traction.









Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

well if you wanted live steam, then you don't have a problem... 

everyone needs to clean track though! sticks, twigs, bugs, dirt... 

so really do you want track power or not? if you do, get stainless steel... I clean my track with a hose... and I also did not want to spend more money by going battery.... after 4 locos, track power with remote control is cheaper. 

Greg


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

I suppose I should say I don't want to scrub track ever again... Twigs and leaves are easily taken care of with the blower. 
Not gonna go live steam because I like diesel engines. (too young, grew up with diesels going through my back yard in the 70s) 

Stainless... interesting... How does it compare to brass? Cost wise...


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

beyond the twigs and leaves, you're also going to get dried bird poop and possibly tree sap if you're under any trees, so while you won't have to scrub every inch of your railroad, you're going to have to scrub clean spots no mater what. Still, I think battery power is the way to go. Do it now and buy the required equipment as you buy each loco. That way you don't end up with 10 locos that needs R/C equipment and batteries all at once.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

For what you want RC/battery is probably the way to go. If you don't want to outfit every engine with battery and RC controls use a car behind the engine with the battery and RC control. If you are going to run more than one train at a time you will need a battery car for each train, not every engine. You will have to run a wire with a plug from the engine. Aristo is the only manufacturer I know of who already has its engines wired with a plug at each end. They also have a battery/track power switch. They have done all the work on the engine necessary. Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

doing it little by little makes it less painful, I agree with Randy, but overall cost is higher if you put a system in each loco. 

All depends on your priorities. 

mine were no sanding of the rails to remove oxide (like brass), constant lighting and track power to support remote switch machines w/o extra wiring, basically unlimited power (high current), ability to have sound in small locos (no room for batteries), independent operation and consisting of all locos with sophisticated speed matching. 

ss track and DCC were my answers... I normally use a "wet wipe" on a pole (Swiffer) one lap of the track (5 minutes) and then I am good to go. Clears twigs, leaves, sap, dead bugs... just guide it around the rails. 

All my locos are ready to go any time and they can run for 12 hours or continuously with no battery changes. Each loco has it's own individual sound, not the same sound from the same box car... and the sounds come from the locos themselves, many are dual speaker one for each prime mover. 

I'm a happy guy but my requirements may be way different from yours... but be sure you look at ALL aspects of the system you purchase... many people forget how many chargers they need or that batteries wear out.... 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

My sound cards and speakers are in the engines. All done before the new integrated sound and control cards. Chuck 

PS, I like having the battery in the trailing car. It is easier to swap out a fresh one and continue running. Since I am using Li-ion batteries I prefer to charge them away from the engine or car.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I use all 3 types of power. Probably what I run the most is just the ones I have a battery in and an on/off switch, some have a rheostat control. Since I just like to let my trains run around while I sit and relax. Live steam is fun, but I have to be in the mood for that, does dirty up the track, so if I want to run track power I have to clean the track. I use a green 3M scrubber on an old handle, or the Aristo track car with a piece of the 3M on it.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Battery powered on board system. I can take my engines to any layout and run without a problem.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 18 Sep 2013 07:16 AM 
doing it little by little makes it less painful, I agree with Randy, but overall cost is higher if you put a system in each loco. 

All depends on your priorities. 

..........ability to have sound in small locos (no room for batteries) 

Greg 











As far as "small locomotives" are concerned with battery and RC..........battery under the crate, Airwire motion decoder under the tarp and the Phoenix sound card is under the stakebed. Oh and BTW, the speaker is under the seat, in the cab. All in a loco less than 12 inches long. Beautiful sound, too!









As far as track is concerned, I use aluminum code 250....half the price of stainless steel. Russell Rutalj (MLS member) uses code 250 aluminum and I run there a lot. We run right over the bird poop and sap from his citrus trees. It's "bumpy", but it doesn't stop the engines from running.


















Tommy Mejia (MLS) and his SD40-2.....battery, Airwire and Phoenix sound (because you like diesels).









He ran 4 or 5 hours that day and STILL had plenty of battery left.

Good luck with your decision. Tommy, Russ and I chose battery and RC and have never regretted the decision.


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Can I just say... You guys are so flippin' awesome! I love this site! It's the people that make it! 

Here's the deal... LOL This is my roster.... 

USA GP7, custom painted/build, cuz I'm a freak... 
Lionel 442 custom weighted to actually pull cars... (cheap p.o.s.) Looks cool though... and it's my only "steam" engine. 
Aristo RS3. Just simply a bad a$$ engine, love it. Looks cool at super slow speeds and can pull 7,000 cars with ease... ok, like ten... 
USA NYC F-3 ABA. (at least 15 years old, B unit has sound and one A unit is a dummy cuz I got tired of fixing it) 
USA Southern F-3 AB units. Sort of new (eBay purchase) 

My track outside consists of 170' ish main line that has no switches or anything exciting... We just like watching em go around... (I've got two boys 7 and 9) 

The track is brass and to be honest... I like the look of it a lot better than aluminum or stainless... Plus my track is old and weathered, reminds me of walking it as a kid... 

Inside track is only about 45' and is more for the boys to run their Thomas and Percy on... it's brass... 

I currently use an aristo TE with something like a 10 amp transformer... I'm still new to all this as a lot of the stuff was given to me from a customer... 

Questions: 

So Where do I go (website) to get said "radio controlled" battery powered set ups? I like the battery car option, I'm looking at a few cars that would make perfect candidates! 

What about running the ABA's and AB units? Or lash ups? 

How's that? LOL


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

We can write about what works for us. This will give you a lot of options and more questions. Tell us where you live. It will be time to go one on one, with knowledgable people in your local area. Seeing what they do and why they did it is a lot better than trying to make a decision based only on what we write. My home layouts are analog DC. My mainline is a little under 90' . I have been doing this for over 30 years. I have three battery/RC engines. Occasionally I run them at home, but mostly they are for other layouts with out track power. I understand that cleaning track can be a pain. For years I have used a dry wall sanding pole with a green Scotchbrite pad to clean my track. I can do my mainline in a minute or so, sidings take another couple of minutes if I'm going to use them. Make local contacts and pick their brains. That is the best advice I can give. Chuck


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## Russell Rutalj (Dec 7, 2010)

I have been running trains on the aluminum track since june of 2011. I have cleaned it 3 times with a Scotch Brite scrub sponge. Spend my time running trains winter or summer with no problems. Happy rails to you!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Russ, what do you use to power your engines? Chuck


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

I live in north east ohio.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 19 Sep 2013 04:48 AM 
Russ, what do you use to power your engines? Chuck 
Chuck,

Russ is battery, Airwire/Phoenix sound. Paul Burch and I drew him to the "darkside".


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess I'm on the "grey" side.
Don't tell Gary







but I mostly run track DC at my house.









Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Russell Rutalj (Dec 7, 2010)

Tommy! Your trains ran great here. How are they doing on your track? Love battery power! Happy rails to you from the "dark side"


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm very happy with Train Li's nickel plated brass track. The plating is really tough, and it's cheaper than stainless as I recall. 

http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/b....html?osCsid=87db169dc2f050f2d8463740a81bd840 

===>Cliffy


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Russ,
My outer loop curves are smaller diameter than yours so the C-19 can only run with 1 or 2 cars. The SD40-2 just runs and runs while the Genesis is giving me some trouble lately with derailing (I noticed a little wheel hop (hitch in its Giiddyup) when I ran it at your house







). The newest Airwire, Phoenix, battery member - Gracie's 4-6-0 has a Barry's drive and it just go on forever. Still need to paint it and put it back together.

Hi TheFishGuy,
_"So Where do I go (website) to get said "radio controlled" battery powered set ups?"_

I had Jonathan at Electric Steam Modelworks do my first battery install in an Accucraft C-19. Then I took the plunge, bought the needed parts from him, asked a lot of questions and have done 3 more much simpler installs myself.


Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm sure I could figure it out. It can't be that difficult can it?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

umm.... so I say it's an issue with small locos and you show me a huge pickup truck and put a big box in the back?

****, why not a big gel cell and an even bigger crate?

That's NOT small and that's not IN the loco.

Put sound, batteries and electronics in a 0-4-0 docksider. Try it in the USAT 0-6-0... it's almost impossible and with enough battery to get a decent run time... when pulling cars.

It's just a lot harder and in some cases impossible.

*Track vs. battery will always have pros and cons but if you say that battery always has an advantage, then why isn't the world 100% battery?*

Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Sep 2013 07:16 AM 
umm.... so I say it's an issue with small locos and you show me a huge pickup truck and put a big box in the back?

****, why not a big gel cell and an even bigger crate?

That's NOT small and that's not IN the loco.

Put sound, batteries and electronics in a 0-4-0 docksider. Try it in the USAT 0-6-0... it's almost impossible and with enough battery to get a decent run time... when pulling cars.

It's just a lot harder and in some cases impossible.

*Track vs. battery will always have pros and cons but if you say that battery always has an advantage, then why isn't the world 100% battery?*

Greg


Give me a break, Greg! This was an example. Sheeesh!







Are you just "sour" on me or the entire world in general.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Greg,
I have RC in one of the USA speeders with a small trailer with a small battery under a tarp. Is that small enough?


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

"[/i]I'm [/i]sure I could figure it out. It can't be that difficult can it?"[/i] 
For me, the key factors are how hard and complex is the engine to take apart (and put back together







) and how much room inside do you have to work with.

I started with an USAT SD40-2. Easy to take apart and a lot of room for electronics.

Here's a picture of the install










This is all the stuff I took out










Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Tommy. Getting into the engine and putting it back together is often like trying to solve a Rubic's cube. I really wish that the manufacturers would give us detailed instructions. I can usually get most of the screws out, but there always seems to be one or two that I can't find and causes me to use words I shouldn't.


Fish:

While battery is probably going to be your choice for power, another question will be your choice of battery technology. I have two battery technologies that I am using. 5 or 6 years ago I had a Airwire and battery (NiMH) installed in my Accucraft K-28. It is a good system and I haven't had any problems. The battery is in the tender. Roger Cutter helped with the install. A Phoenix sound system was already in. Plenty of room for everything. 

My next instals were AristoCraft REVO with Li-ion. Stan Cedarleaf helped with the latest installs. The remotes and batteries are in trailing box cars. One engine is an Aristo Mallet and the other is a Bachmann K. Hence, two box cars. With the Li-ion batteries I am glad that I didn't install them in the tender with a charging jack. Over the three years I have had four Li-ion batteries. Shortly after I got my second Li battery it failed. It would not take a full charge and would last for a half an hour or so. The other one was going strong after two hours. I have never run the good one so long that it stopped. I returned the defective one to the vendor and it was replaced along with an additional battery. Now I have three. This summer running at Dr. Rivet's one of the new batteries failed, just like the previous one. I haven't had a chance to send it back yet. Something to do this fall. Had these been in an engine or tender it would have been much more difficult to trade them out. As of now my failure rate for Li-ions is 50%. I am seriously thinking about going to NiMH. They may be bigger for the same amount of power and similar voltage, but there is plenty of space in the box cars, so size isn't a problem.

I know a lot of people don't have trouble with Li-ion batteries, maybe it is just my luck.

Chuck


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Ok boys... No fighting! LOL My intention was to get information from experienced peoples and all your experiences are very valuable to me! I've got plenty of box cars and refers that can hold what's necessary... Are we allowed to discuss companies on this forum where these things can be purchased? Or should I just keep doing research?


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

One of the things that helped me to decide was the potential of computer programming / control of DCC elements. Not that I've done it yet, but it's still a big draw for me. Greg E. has a lot of experience with this; and his web site is a huge resource regardless of your choice. And you can also do a lot of automation with conventional track power (check Dave Bodnar's site). 

But that's just me, I love programming & automation. Not everyone's cup of tea, but that's an example of what makes this hobby so interesting in its variants.


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

Check out the OVGRS web page for help in battery R/C conversions....


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Well guys... I finally had a moment to do some reading and research on this little hair brained idea of mine of never wanting to clean track and here's what I've come up with. 

It's too expensive go battery and airwire for everything I have BUT I would like to figure out how to at least make my RS3 remote control. It's obviously got a wire hanging out of it's butt so it (I think) should be the easiest one to set up. Since I've got the option to go battery or track power on that engine it seems like it's a no brainer... 

I had recently been in the the design stages of the ultimate track cleaning car and I might get back on that train... haha If the track is simply atrocious I'll enlist the boys to help me scrub with the industrial scotchbrite my neighbor got for me from his place of work. Then for easy maintenance I'll use the ultimate track cleaner car... 

My wife brings up a very valid point. I like to tinker with the trains, more so than run them. Customize, paint and so on and so forth... She feels, and admittedly so do I, that it's really not my style to go all battery. I don't visit other layouts, and I don't like electronics (they scare me) and when I run a train it's usually because I'm working in the flower beds or there's people here. Essentially it's hard to justify spending all that ching on something I more than likely will never really utilize to it's full potential. 

Is any of this making sense? LOL 

So now I need help with what I should do with this RS3... Anyone wanna hold my hand?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I took it as a response to me... as a response to battery an issue with small locos... 

Was that not your intent? You quoted me...

I stand by my response, a BIG box in the back of an open oversized pickup is NOT a small loco, i.e. it is NOT an example refuting my statement. 

Greg 
Posted By Gary Armitstead on 20 Sep 2013 07:29 AM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Sep 2013 07:16 AM 
umm.... so I say it's an issue with small locos and you show me a huge pickup truck and put a big box in the back?

****, why not a big gel cell and an even bigger crate?

That's NOT small and that's not IN the loco.

Put sound, batteries and electronics in a 0-4-0 docksider. Try it in the USAT 0-6-0... it's almost impossible and with enough battery to get a decent run time... when pulling cars.

It's just a lot harder and in some cases impossible.

*Track vs. battery will always have pros and cons but if you say that battery always has an advantage, then why isn't the world 100% battery?*

Greg


Give me a break, Greg! This was an example. Sheeesh!







Are you just "sour" on me or the entire world in general.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The OP's roster did not include small engines, bringing that into the discussion indicates a weak hand that needs padding ... just saying... 

Happy Rails 
Go clockwork!


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Fish,
I feel your pain. It took awhile before I invested in my first battery engine. But I also took into consideration I like track power[/b]. You set a speed, walk away and let em run. When I run the battery engines, because I can[/b] control the engine and sounds I will stand there and do just that - because its fun and *I can







*. Having both track and battery powered engines gives me an option.
If you want to run a track powered engine and a battery powered engine on the same track at the same time,(I do it all the time) the pickups in the battery engine need to be isolated or removed (I remove them). My battery engines are only battery. 
My Aristo RS-3 doesn't have a wire hanging from it's butt.


No hand holding but if you decide on modifying your RS-3, for starters check out Greg Elmassian's webpage

http://elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/aristo-motive-power/rs-3

and George Schreyer's web page

http://www.trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips2/rs3_tips.html

Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's the original question, not locked to a roster, or anything else...I answered this question Posted By TheFishGuy on 17 Sep 2013 08:05 PM 
Lol, my question to the experts is this: if one were to start from scratch with their engines and never wanted to clean track... What should they get and do?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Put sound, batteries and electronics in a 0-4-0 docksider. 
Okay. 










Technically, this loco is currently running 7.4 volts with Del's Critter Control and MyLocoSound sound, but there's ample room for a 14.8 volt pack and Revo/Phoenix, or QSI/G-wire because I designed it to accommodate that control. (I was reviewing Del's control at the time and this seemed a perfect venue to test it, hence the current set-up instead.) An Airwire G3 receiver might be a tight fit under the tank, but this is a small locomotive, so it doesn't draw much current. I'd be tempted on this one to use the Airwire "Convertr" receiver and a high-capacity HO/O decoder. I get around 4 - 5 hours run time pulling 3 or so cars around the garden with this installation. 

Don't take this as an argument for battery power being "superior" to track power. It's not. It's meant to illustrate that what was once an advantage of track power back when batteries were ginormous and heavy is now more or less an equal between the two camps. I think, as time and technology march along, we're going to see more of these once "clear advantages" of one camp or the other become more and more equal. Advances in stainless steel track and automatic detections for things like reverse loops, etc. are just as good for the hobby as smaller and smaller batteries. Any advance in technology that makes running trains easier and more fun is a good thing. 

Later, 

K


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

By comparison, this is a nearly identical locomotive I did 20+ years ago, and this one is full R/C with sound. The tank hides 7.2 volts of NiCad batteries. The cab is jam-packed full of the control and sound circuits, which were home-built, using 75 mHz R/C transmitter/receivers to control it. 

20 years ago, this was a big-time effort to cram R/C into a loco this small. As you can see, there's no room in the cab even for an engineer. But it was--at least--possible to do so. That vs today is about as night-and-day as you can get in terms of simplicity of installation. Today, everything--including the batteries--fits easily under the saddle, leaving plenty of room for the engineer. 

Later, 

K


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I've had a side tank Porter running radio battery since before the Sandy Eiggo GR Convention. It still runs as the Concentrator switcher every ops session. I have a newer big Porter side tank with radio, battery, sound, all on-board, used as the Pete's Pit Mine switcher every ops session. 
Once you start, you won't go back. 

If you factor in cost of stainless track, controllers, boosters, power supply.....one person recently calculated he could do 5 engines himself for the cost of going dcc. 

Not counting the track. 

I know a guy who insisted on NS track, indoors, I tried to convince him on aluminium...he got the line up, also got a radio/battery/sound loco....he now has I think six radio/battery/sound locos, and asks me why I let him buy NS track. 

You will like it. 

TOC


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Fish guy, RS-3 is easy to make into battery. Pull off the cover on top, you will see a switch for track or battery. Switch it over to battery. I have a battery car with just an on/off switch that I use a lot with my RS-3. A 9.6v battery pack moves it around at about the right speed. Pretty easy!


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Fish, where in NE oHIo are you? I live in Conneaut, about as far North east as you can get... 
I run battery r/c with airwire and phoenix sound all on board. You're more than welcome to come check it out and see what you think. I'm not pushy if you like it, cool. If not, that's cool too. 

Terry


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

I live in Orwell, about as far south in bula as you can get... I live in L.A. Lower Ashtabula. lol

I'll shoot you a pm


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 23 Sep 2013 02:11 PM 
Fish guy, RS-3 is easy to make into battery. Pull off the cover on top, you will see a switch for track or battery. Switch it over to battery. I have a battery car with just an on/off switch that I use a lot with my RS-3. A 9.6v battery pack moves it around at about the right speed. Pretty easy! 
Interesting.... I like this as I'd just be running a cleaning car on it... But now I'd like to go check out some battery trains in person...


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

For not cleaning track, I would try to take an engine or botched car and add a rotary sweeper on the front, bright bar underneath, cloth polishing wheels to get the inside edges ( this would take a whole car probably ) then a battery car and engine to push the cars. 

Then run it at the beginning of the day.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By JPCaputo on 03 Oct 2013 10:34 PM 
For not cleaning track, I would try to take an engine or botched car and add a rotary sweeper on the front, bright bar underneath, cloth polishing wheels to get the inside edges ( this would take a whole car probably ) then a battery car and engine to push the cars. 

Then run it at the beginning of the day. 
And how is this "NOT cleaning track"?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

There you go reading every word again! 


hee hee


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

So we've been "playing trains" over the past couple of days... I guess the track cleaning isn't that terrible... Especially since the boys do it!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

When I was running track power I would send my NW-2 Cow and Calf out and the first trip was kind of jerky. The second trip around was better and by the third and forth it was OK. 


The Pick up shoes on the Cow and Calf would clean the track. 


JJ


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 23 Sep 2013 02:11 PM 
Fish guy, RS-3 is easy to make into battery. Pull off the cover on top, you will see a switch for track or battery. Switch it over to battery. I have a battery car with just an on/off switch that I use a lot with my RS-3. A 9.6v battery pack moves it around at about the right speed. Pretty easy! So for fun I took one of my 18V Bosch batterys and hooked it up to my RS-3. Took off like a bat out of ****! LOL Then realized I had a 7.2V Ryobi battery from a cordless drill that someone gave me. I took the battery apart and ran wires straight out from it. Threw a switch in and hooked it up. It's perfect! So perfect in fact that the way the cheapo Ryobi battery was made that it doesn't plug into a charger, the charger plugs into it! 

At this moment the battery is on charge, I'm going to run it tonite till it dies. I'm curious to see how long it lasts...


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Unbelievably the RS-3 Ran for one hour and fifty nine minutes! LOVE IT! Now to work on the battery/track cleaning car!


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