# That new Forney is gonna get me in trouble!!



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

(*Sigh) What am I gonna do? Ever since I saw the pre-production examples of the new Bachmann Forney at the NGRC in Denver last summer I have been smitten! It's slowly becoming an obsession: I _must _have one of them!!! I haven't felt like this since I first set eyes on my K-27! Somehow, some way, sometime soon, I will order one........and then I am _doomed!!_ The only way I will be able to even contemplate a purchase is if I divest myself of an equal valued portion of my rolling stock. Hmmmmmm.................................aw, who am I kidding? I have absolutely no self-control when this happens!! (Oh well, I guess I'd better get down to the storage room and see what engines and rolling stock I won't be needing...)

Why am I doomed? Well, technically, I would only be in the dog house but you get the picture! My wife has seriously curtailed my spending on trains because she has this silly notion that I have too many already(!) It hasn't helped that my daughter is just starting to discover the joys of being a teenager and has fallen into the habit of wanting to go shopping "for really cool stuff" at the local Mall and pesters us to get these things she absolutely _must_ have!!! (Thanks to my daughter over-using the "but I just gotta have it" argument _ad-nauseum,_ my wife is _not _going to react favorably to my using that argument!) If I want this locomotive I am going to have to sacrifice something of equal value first. Still, it will be worth it! It's only a matter of time!


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, Steve! Maybe you can get the kind of Ebay response on the liquidated equipment that you got on your LGB DRGW Forney a few months back. 

[Need help with a "hidie" place??????]









JimC.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Letter it for The Gap, and convince your daughter she's just gotta have it.  

I'm eying them too, but I'm in the same boat. The cost of the loco, then the control for it, to say nothing of the fact that I've already got TVRR #2, which I built from an Accucraft Ruby. I'll probably end up with one down the road a bit, but I just can't justify it right now. 

Later, 

K


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Sometimes it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission.

Pay with a money order. As soon as it arrives burn the boxes. Then weather the crap out of it (including a generous supply of real dust), and when she asks, say, "What? That old thing?" And act all injured and innocent.... But if it blows up in your face, I didn't suggest nuthin of the sort


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

My guess is that there will be a pretty high level of customer resistance over here in UK, where it is currently slated to be sold at the same price as the K-27......

Time will tell, but IMO the 'bang for the buck' factor just is not there. 

It has not yet arrove, BTW....

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## David Buckingham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tac 
I agree with you it is much to much I would like one but not at that price 

Dave


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## Chris France (Jan 3, 2008)

I've always loved the Maine two footers and think this is overall a great looking engine. The thing that I can't wrap my head around is the gauge thing (funny coming from a die hard 1/29th guy). It just doesn't look right from the front or rear without looking like it would fall over if the wind blew too hard. If I was a better modeler I would probably buy one and try to regauge the thing.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't wrap my head around is the gauge thing 
I'm with you, Chris. Now, if Bachmann really wanted to 'get real' they'd have started a whole new line of 7/8n2 models! 

Or perhaps they'd find a better market by making it SM32 (1:16th scale, gauge-0 track = 2') like the UK guys use. In fact, as Accucraft, Roundhouse, etc., all make 32/45mm re-gaugeable locos, it's a shame bachmann didn't do the same.


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

At the current MSRP and Street Price, the locomotive in question is _*Severely Cost Prohibitive*_ for us...

I have no desire for a K, but would buy one of those before I'd drop the same funds on this tiny offering (albeit, it appears beautiful and is a nice addition to the Spectrum line)....

One could purchase the new Accucraft Forney in Live Steam for less than what most on-line retailers have the Bachmann, or Save about half and find a nice NOS LGB Forney.... 


Why is the Accucraft MSRP only $659 but the Bachmann $1150....


I was/am a proponent of the Forney, and welcomed the Bachmann announcement of it, but I think the failing dollar and this far-fetched inflated pricing will hurt this offering~horribly

I know some will buy, just to say they did...but this "Joe the plumber" is gonna pass until someone puts them on "Fire Sale" 


just my $0.02

cale 


Why $550, for this minuscule loco alone...Imagine a Spectrum Set: Forney, a couple of Spectrum cars and no track, just a boxed set....for $350-450...that's more like it!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Why $550, for this minuscule loco alone... 
I certainly understand the frustration over the price of the Forney relative to the K, but is it "$550 for this miniscule loco," or "Holy Cow! How can they afford to sell the K for only $650?' I think we got way spoiled by the pricing on the K. I don't know what Bachmann's logic was with pricing the K where they did, maybe they thought that was as high as people would pay, but the overwhelming sentiment among its owners is that the loco is very much a bargain for the price. 

I've long since given up reading any kind of logic into the pricing of locomotives in this scale. You've got the same LGB mogul selling for anywhere from $300 to $1200 just because of what's printed on the tender. You've got an Accucraft live steam K-28 selling for $4800, a 4-6-0 in the same scale, also live steam and just as detailed, selling for $1200, and a live steam mogul--comparatively spartan in terms of detail--selling for $1400. I'm sure in the hallowed halls of Philly, Union City, or wherever, there's a sense of logic behind this pricing. Here in Centennial, CO, it makes absolutely ZERO sense to me. 

Later, 

K


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I can guess part of the reason for the expense. I had a chance to give the pre-production models a thorough exam and the electronics cramned into it is substantial! IF they have finally gotten all the "bugs" out of it and it is truly DCC/DC and r/c battery compatable with the kind of detailing that we have come to expect from _Spectrum_ items then $600 is not too unreasonable (it's still a lot to swallow though!)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

With Aristo and Bachmann, the current thinking seems to be is to continually inflate the list price, so the street price, while higher, seems a good deal since it is so much of a reduction of the "mythical" list price. 

There's certainly enough parts in the K to make it an expensive loco. Is it worth $650 in today's market? Compared to the value Aristo gives you, hmm... but we certainly do not have a lot of choices. 

As a consumer I look at what I am getting for my money, with an eye towards what it really costs to produce. 

It just seems to me that the Forney should be $375 or so, there's just not enough in it in the drivetrain, valve gear, number of wheels/drivers... also there is no tender of course... 

I think the K is a reasonable price, now that all the secrets of making it right are known (even if it's socket is wired backwards). 

And yes, LGB forneys are all over the place, because LGB is "collectable" and there are "collectors" willing to pay premiums for rarer items. My LGB Forney that is for sale has an original price sticker of $492, and that was "old money". 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

List the daughter on Evil Bay!! Hah LOL before she gets any older and more expensive!! I have raised two daughters! My ex-father in law always told me that boys were easier and way less complicated to raise!! LOL Regal 
Oh there is always Craigs List too!! hee hee 
Oh and equal time there is always this little snipet! "The only difference between men and boys is the price of they"re toys"


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The logic on the pricing probably goes something like with the mining mogul aka 'Indie'... "See, we TRIED making what the small layout customers asked for, but nobody wanted it until we practically GAVE them away, so there's no real interest in them..." Better hope they put enough weight in it for it to pull itself, unlike the critical flaw with said Indie


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

weight? you seen a pic of that monster Circuit Board and all that copper wiring....that itself prob weighs more than our new Thomas


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

My sense is that it costs the same to produce a detailed mikado as it does a detailed forney. The details involved are not transferable from a previous model, so they all have to be made in to molds, tested and then remade. With the US dollar in the crapper, engineering costs more, as does everything else. If you think I am full of it, have you noticed that premium O gauge scale locomotive prices continue to rise as well? Typical O guage steam locomotives are regularly in the $600-$1500 range. That includes control and sound, which is not optional, so in a way, it is like the circuit board that Bachmann puts in. 

Steve,

I did the "beg for forgiveness" thing earlier this summer with a set of FA's. I think I would have been better off if I had gotten her a gift of equal or greater value. Think shiny jewelry or spa days. That seems to work better than sneaking behind their backs. I can't imagine how awesome a spa day that costs $600 would be. Come to think of it, that better be several days! 

You could always ask Santa. What the worst he could say? It's not like you'd shoot your eye out or anything... I am assuming that you were a good boy this year...


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

our Full Day goes for $400....here is a description along with our new "Man Speak" definition from our site... 

http://www.theheightsofconverse.com/ 

*Head to Toe:* 

A Complete Makeover Day at the Spa! We’ll usher her into New Heights with our Dermalogica Face Treatment, followed by a 1 Hour Full Body Swedish Massage; then she’ll enjoy a Spa Manicure and Spa Pedicure; continue with Foil Highlight/Color Service and Haircut, top it all off with a Make-up Application. A light meal is served. 

All Day - $400 

*Man-Speak: 4x4, Long-bed, Crew-Cab, Dually, Diesel Pick-Up Truck!*


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote (*Man-Speak: 4x4, Long-bed, Crew-Cab, Dually, Diesel Pick-Up Truck!}* 
HA HA HA


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

our Full Day goes for $400
*Man-Speak: 4x4, Long-bed, Crew-Cab, Dually, Diesel Pick-Up Truck!* 
Give her that and she'll assume you're Tiger Woods 

Is that in 1:24 or 1:32? or maybe 1:64????


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, it's too late for sneaking around or asking forgiveness after the fact. Patsy read this thread. She finished it and looked over at me and said,"Just remember, it was _your _idea!" (in reference to selling off some rolling stock and engines.) Then she walked away.....(I think I might be in the clear!)







It's_ possible_! It _could _happen!







Uh huh, yeah, riiight! Dream on Steve....


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

No Surprise here, but the Bachmann poster Child and Technical Consultant are posting pictures of their Forneys on the Bmann forum....funny, those 2 always get "it" first...must use the same "local dealer" that Miller brags about but will never disclose....won't be getting my $600 on this one...

The audacity, like the rest of us peons are so ignorant we can't see through it....


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I stopped at Caboose Hobbies in Denver today and they had a Black, Undecorated, Inside-Frame Forney sitting there for sale. The asking price? $799.00!!! That's higher than the K-27 was and that Forney aint no K-27!! (*Sigh) They did it again! They had a winner and they totally botched the sale by overpricing the d*mn thing!! (This supposes that there is nothing wrong with the model as it comes from the factory...) I used to buy every Bachmann _Spectrum _engine that came out with the exception of the Dizzy. Starting with the 55-Ton Shay I have stayed away from Bachmann specifically because of these_ stupid_ errors!! I only purchased the K-27 because it is my favorite engine and TOC gave it a thorough going over ripping out all of that useless junk and fixing all of the little "problems" that popped up! While I love the looks of the Forney and it appears that they learned their lesson about making sure the thing actually works before they send it out to the market, this idea of charging more than the K-27 is ridiculous!! I argued $600 was steep but not totally unreasonable to which the general consensus was, "Yes, it IS!" Now, tack on another $200?!! and this is without sound??!!
Funny, a friend with whom I recently corresponded with made the observation that dealers were only getting in one or two of the Forneys. Could that have been all that they pre-ordered? Nobody wants to end up with batches of engines that aren't selling _especially_ in this economy! What's going on? If these Forneys don't sell (no matter how nice they are) then what will happen? Who's calling the shots? Philly or China? One thing's for sure: there is absolutely NO WAY I'm paying $800 for that Forney! I could get another K-27 for less! Hey Bachmann, here's a tip: Economics 101 - It doesn't matter what _you_ price it at. If the public thinks it's too high (waaay too high!!) then it won't sell and you will not make a profit! There usually is a happy medium whereby you will make a small profit and the customer will accept that the prices have to go up but _you don't get to dictate to the customer what prices they will accept!_ It's this arrogant attitude on Bachmann's part that leads me to think it's not coming from Philly. Too bad. They really had a nice engine there...


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Guys: 

The 4-4-0 at 400.00 was reasonable. Then the highly decorated E&P 4-4-0 was later blown out at 235.00 from St Aubins !!! 
Presently, the MTH Hudson with their advantanced sound and synchronised puffing smoke sells for 699.99 . 

The Bachmann Forney should have been made die cast as per their ON30 product line. 
I also wanted it in O Gauge to model Maine two footers. We can presently buy dual gauge track ( 0 & 1 ) 
I had expected the Bachmann plastic Forney to be in the price range of their mining Mogul. 
Look also what is presently available from Accucraft in brass at the 600.00 to 800.00 range. 
600.00 for a plastic Forney isn't realistic. I realise the manufacturing cost is to produce the molds. But Bachmann presently produces die cast ON30 engines , so to add the required value the Forney should also have been die cast. 
No sale for me and I am a train addict ! There are just too many better values on the market presently. 

Norman


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Steve:

I just read your post latest after submitting mine.
Those Forneys definitely will end up on blow out. No way people are going to pay 800.00. 
Another comparison, Train World presently has the latest Aristo Craft plastic live steamer on sale at 800.00. 

Norman


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi again Steve:

529.00 Forney mail order price at Ridge Road Station:

http://www.ridgeroadstation.com/ist...ass=ENGINE

Norman


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 31 Dec 2009 05:30 PM 
I stopped at Caboose Hobbies in Denver today and they had a Black, Undecorated, Inside-Frame Forney sitting there for sale. The asking price? $799.00!!! That's higher than the K-27 was and that Forney aint no K-27!! (*Sigh) They did it again! They had a winner and they totally botched the sale by overpricing the d*mn thing!! (This supposes that there is nothing wrong with the model as it comes from the factory...) I used to buy every Bachmann _Spectrum _engine that came out with the exception of the Dizzy. Starting with the 55-Ton Shay I have stayed away from Bachmann specifically because of these_ stupid_ errors!! I only purchased the K-27 because it is my favorite engine and TOC gave it a thorough going over ripping out all of that useless junk and fixing all of the little "problems" that popped up! While I love the looks of the Forney and it appears that they learned their lesson about making sure the thing actually works before they send it out to the market, this idea of charging more than the K-27 is ridiculous!! I argued $600 was steep but not totally unreasonable to which the general consensus was, "Yes, it IS!" Now, tack on another $200?!! and this is without sound??!!
Funny, a friend with whom I recently corresponded with made the observation that dealers were only getting in one or two of the Forneys. Could that have been all that they pre-ordered? Nobody wants to end up with batches of engines that aren't selling _especially_ in this economy! What's going on? If these Forneys don't sell (no matter how nice they are) then what will happen? Who's calling the shots? Philly or China? One thing's for sure: there is absolutely NO WAY I'm paying $800 for that Forney! I could get another K-27 for less! Hey Bachmann, here's a tip: Economics 101 - It doesn't matter what _you_ price it at. If the public thinks it's too high (waaay too high!!) then it won't sell and you will not make a profit! There usually is a happy medium whereby you will make a small profit and the customer will accept that the prices have to go up but _you don't get to dictate to the customer what prices they will accept!_ It's this arrogant attitude on Bachmann's part that leads me to think it's not coming from Philly. Too bad. They really had a nice engine there...
Steve Caboose Hobbies is always high! I used to go there when I first got into the hobby, and I would look at what they had and then go look in the magazine pages there in the store and see what I could really buy it for!! Nine times out of ten I would leave and buy elsewhere! The only bargains I did buy there was my first bachmann set a chatanooga choo choo which I promptly returned for a refund and bought my 1st Aristo RS3 and then I purchased a LGB dsp&p forney. Usually the deals are in the consignment section if any there!! I still like to stop and go in and look though when I'm in Denver. I just know unless a bargain I run onto that it's probably way less somewhere else!! Regal


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

I'd like to know if anyone else in the States (outside of the 2 mentioned in my earlier post) bought and/or received their forney?


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