# my ebay "buyer beware" recent story



## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

Ebay claims to be such a safe place to shop. And part of that is with their feedback system. I don't think so.

A few weeks ago, I won 10 auctions from shiponsite-myrtlebeach. Apparently they are part of a franchise for selling items for people on ebay on consignment. The auctions were for G gauge cars. The auctions claimed that each car was hand made in the 40s. I sure didn't believe the 40s story as from the photos I could see that the cars didn't show that kind of age and I have read that Lehmann started selling G in 1968 starting G gauge model railroading and I figured that the guy they were selling for didn't predict the future creation of G and made the cars the proper size in the 40s. And most of the cars obviously had factory trucks and wheels and it looked like the trucks were from Bachmann. But I bid on the auctions to get the cars as starts for projects.

When I received the cars, again it was obvious that these cars were not from the 40s. No age or soiling, so I guess they were kept in tightly sealed containers for all those years. And I don't think in the 40s that people were buying silicon sealer, acrylic clear sheet plastic, and Bachmann trucks and wheels. And worst of all, one car was a Bachmann that just had a bad home done paint job. I complained to the seller and told them why the claim of the 40s make was false and also told how the one car also wasn't hand made and as I wasn't interested in another Bachmann car, I wanted a refund on it. I had complained about their high shipping before paying for the auction so as part of settling my complaint, they refunded the money for the Bachnmann auction (ended at like $15) and also some shipping money. I was satisfied and as usual, I left no feedback.

A few days ago, I saw that again this company had a hand made car on ebay. again they were claiming it was made in the 40s. I decided to do an "ask a question" and ask why they still were trying to sell this car as made in the 40s. I was blocked from sending a question. I tried to make a bid and was blocked from bidding on their auction. So I figured that people should know that this company was putting false information on their auctions and I gave them a negative on every car auction and told it was for a false description. The seller sent me an email asking why I gave the negatives after they had refunded my money and I told them it was because they were selling lies in their auctions even after I explained why what they were claiming was false. Then later I received an email from them gloating that they got ebay to remove all of my negative feedbacks. And I checked and sure enough they did. They also claimed that the man selling the cars said they were made in the 40s and they knew he wouldn't lie, so perhaps I need to send them my vast collection of Rolex watches all of which belonged originally to Elvis.

I called ebay customer service to complain about the removal of the negative feedbacks. The woman refused to put them back and gave me some story that she would note a complaint about the seller and if ebay received enough complaints about them, they could receive a reprimand from ebay. Now that sure helps buyers tell about the integrity of the sellers. 

Ebay claims they do not specially protect the sellers. It has been my experience buying stuff on ebay for over 14 years that it is a big gamble and ebay does tend to take care of those that pay the fees and provide the goods to sell, their sellers. So seeing a 100% positive feedback may only mean that the seller is considered important enough to ebay that they will delete negatives for them and keep their outstanding reputation and sales rolling along.

Doug


----------



## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

eBay removed the negative feedback from these items because you were leaving feedback for another item, for which you were refunded. 
Had you left negative feedback on just the one item that was refunded, explaining that the item was not as described, the purchase was refunded and they relisted the item with the same bad description..............your negative feedback would probably not have been removed by eBay. 
The way eBay looks at it, 10 negative feedbacks for one sale for which you were unhappy, is not fair to the seller. 
Ralph


----------



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Is it plausible the cars from the 40's was a intended to be a description of the era modeled verse the manufacture date?
Michael


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

It sounds like you already knew they weren't hand-made or from the 1940's before you bought them.. 
So why were you surprised they weren't hand-made or from the 1940's after you got them? 

I agree the seller shouldn't be misrepresenting the product as something it isn't.. 
but you knew what you were bidding on..so why complain after you got what you knew you were going to get? 

Scot


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 28 Jul 2012 08:47 AM 
It sounds like you already knew they weren't hand-made or from the 1940's before you bought them.. 
So why were you surprised they weren't hand-made or from the 1940's after you got them? 

I agree the seller shouldn't be misrepresenting the product as something it isn't.. 
but you knew what you were bidding on..so why complain after you got what you knew you were going to get? 

Scot 
I was wondering the same thing, Scot. There's plenty of misrepresented, mislabeled, or deceptively labelled stuff on ebay, and I consider it my responsibility as a buyer to KNOW what I am buying - or bid low and accept that I may not get what I think I am.

If I were to list a Lexus driven by Thomas Jefferson, would a buyer really have any right to complain when they found out it wasn't true? To me, the claim is so obviously false that any buyer out to know it immediately.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 28 Jul 2012 07:16 AM 

Is it plausible the cars from the 40's was a intended to be a description of the era modeled verse the manufacture date?
Michael


I looked up one of the completed auctions.
The text typically says:

Attention train collectors and enthusiasts!
This auction is for a hand-built and painted G-scale hopper car. This train car was built in the 1940s! Trucks, axles, and wheels are die-cast metal. Two wheels per axle.
Condition: Good vintage condition. Some imperfections in wood/paint.


So yes, the "built in the 1940s" isn't really correct - but it's also obvious that this basic text was copied from O-Scale cars the seller had up for auction that could have been made in the 1940s.
The seller also offers a 14 day money back guarantee if a buyer isn't happy with the purchase.
I don't think the negatives were warranted and ebay was correct in removing them.


----------



## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

You guys seem to be way more satisfied with bad selling then I am. I think false descriptions deserves negative feedbacks. I doubt if I had given them positives but said that the descriptions were false that many buyers would have bothered to look at the positive feedbacks to see that there were actually problems. Part of what supposedly makes ebay buying safe is being able to see what others experienced. False descriptions are bad.


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By bmwr71 on 28 Jul 2012 11:28 AM 
You guys seem to be way more satisfied with bad selling then I am...False descriptions are bad. Of course they're bad, and bad business is bad business. In my opinion, you did the right thing by contacting the seller, and when that did not work, by posting where other potential buyers might see. However, I do not think that posting multiple negative comments (some of which presumably were posted for unrelated items) was justified. I also think that you as the buyer need to accept some responsibility. You said that you knew up front that the cars would not be as described, but that you wanted them for parts. When you got you boxes of parts, you complained that they were not the parts you wanted - even though you knew they would not be. You are certainly entitled to complain that the descvription was not accurate, but it hardly seems fair to demand your money back. After all, you were not deceived, you chose to buy a lot of unknown parts, and you got what you bid on.


----------



## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Posted By bmwr71 on 28 Jul 2012 11:28 AM 
You guys seem to be way more satisfied with bad selling then I am. I think false descriptions deserves negative feedbacks. I doubt if I had given them positives but said that the descriptions were false that many buyers would have bothered to look at the positive feedbacks to see that there were actually problems. Part of what supposedly makes ebay buying safe is being able to see what others experienced. False descriptions are bad. 

You did not request a refund on the other 9.eBay expects you to give the seller a chance to remedy your complaints.
When you gave a negative for all 10, eBay simply considered it retalitory.
Ralph


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I see items on ebay that are not described correctly. 
Most are mistakes made buy people that have no idea what they are selling. 
This happens even more with these companies that are listing customer's items for them for a % of the selling price. 

But just like everything else you buy, you need to do "your" homework before you buy. This is true from buying a house or car down to buying a tub of margerine. 

[The auctions claimed that each car was hand made in the 40s. I sure didn't believe the 40s story as from the photos I could see that the cars didn't show that kind of age and I have read that Lehmann started selling G in 1968 starting G gauge model railroading and I figured that the guy they were selling for didn't predict the future creation of G and made the cars the proper size in the 40s. And most of the cars obviously had factory trucks and wheels and it looked like the trucks were from Bachmann. But I bid on the auctions to get the cars as starts for projects.] 

You knew enough to be able to tell the cars were not what they were advertised to be, but you still bit on the bait instead running. 

I have no symathy for you and believe E-Bay did the right thing.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have some sympathy for the fact you are upset, but I agree totally with Randy. You knew something was fishy, no one built this stuff in the 40's to this scale and gauge. 

I agree the wording was misleading, but you could have asked a question right on ebay if you had any concerns. 

Multiple negatives were your downfall I believe, ebay took it as an overreaction. 


Greg


----------



## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

The reason I stopped doing any business with eBay is exactly what is eliding to. It doesn't matter what the truth is, eBay is going to protect the seller. Negative feedback on eBay is a joke, because you can't leave it and have it stick. A 100% positive feedback rating is useless as far as I am concerned, because EVERYBODY HAS ONE! i have had similar experiences to Doug and have no faith in the feedback. Is every seller unscrupulous, certainly not. But I don't have the time or the funds to put into parsing out the good ones. Now I purchase from reputable vendors (ie, RLD Hobbies, etc), or from those here and on other forums, where I have gotten to know the caliber of people I am dealing with. In some ways, eBay is denying honest sellers buyers that have gone other places due to their policies. 

My tuppence worth. 

Bob C.


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bmwr71 on 28 Jul 2012 02:05 AM 
It has been my experience buying stuff on ebay for over 14 years that it is a big gamble and ebay does tend to take care of those that pay the fees and provide the goods to sell, their sellers

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Simple question: If you have felt this way about E Bay for 14 years, why do you keep buying there ??


----------



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

From the desciption it sounds like the ORIGINAL CAR was built in the 40's, not the model.

John


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Heck I'm still in awe that you get 2 wheels per axle... Sounds perfect to me! 

I like it much better when one seller is pitted against another, rather than a buyer having to out bid another... 

John


----------



## Brandon (Jul 6, 2011)

I decided to write the seller about an O gauge "vintage mid 1900's hand built" car, here's what they wrote back. 

"Hello. Thank you for your interest in this item. This is part of a larger collection of trains we've been selling for a consignor. The consignor is a +90 year old rail hand, who made most of his trains. Most were built during the mid 1940-1960's. Hope this helps. Best regards,"


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

Can you post pictures of these cars you bought that were "hand made" in the 40's ???
Perhaps the original owner who built them may have made them to go with the old tinplate stuff of the Era. As I recall, the tinplate models were larger than O scale and close to g scale.

But seriously, G scale didn't exsist publicly in the 40's. So why did you go thinking and buying something that didn't exsist ???
IF you have questions about something on evil bay, come and ask folks here first B-4 jumping into buying things. Folks here will answer 
questions to help out. we have quite a variety of knowledge of what is and was made.


Rocky


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

G scale didn't exist, but 1 Gauge did... 

Robert


----------



## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Doug:

Unfortunately, you are not going to receive any compassion from the folks on this forum !

I had previously documented as to how I was charged the dealer commission TWICE on a locomotive from two "reputable" dealers. 350.00 stolen.

The overwhelming reply from this forum was that it was all my fault that I trusted dealer A to be honest.

The result is I no longer buy trains from either dealer A or dealer B.

As to ebay, way too much seller fraud. No way that I would buy an expensive item on ebay today. 

Still, ebay has its place as a source for out of production trains. Just be prepared to be suckered. Is is a gamble. If you want the item and it is not available anywhere else, then you may decide to "roll the dice" and you may get what you ordered and paid for or you may be swindled.

I think that this seller fraud will eventually end private sales on ebay. Possibly items will eventually be sold on ebay only through licenced vendors.

I could document some of my ebay train items seller frauds. But Doug, be assured that I would be told by the folks on this forum that it was my fault to have trusted the ebay vendors.

It is all a " buyer beware " attitude.

What ever happened to folks being honest and not operating as petty criminals ?

Today one can no longer trust a Police Officer or Priest as was once the case way back in the 1950's and 1960's here in Canada. 
Pretty sad society. 

Doug, note that no one on this forum criticised the seller. 


Norman


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Norman, you said: 
note that no one on this forum criticised the seller. 

And yet: 
I agree the seller shouldn't be misrepresenting the product as something it isn't.. 
Of course they're bad, and bad business is bad business. 
I agree the wording was misleading 

Be careful what you say, and be especially careful when making claims or condemnations based on your own prejudices. 

No, there's not much sympathy in this case. I have seen two broad categories of complaints about Ebay. One is clearly wrong - items not shipped, the wrong items shipped, careless packing resulting in damage, etc., and those are normally rectified via Ebay and Paypal fairly quickly. The other is this sort of thing - the seller either does not know or does not care what the item is, does not care whether the customer is happy, etc., and those are usually the ones which leave people complaining. The thing is, in most of those cases, the buyer clearly had some indication that there could be a problem and chose to go through with the purchase anyway. They chose to gamble, and they lost. Ebay is just like any other place where buyers and sellers meet - _caveat emptor_. 

If there had been a clear case of fraud, Doug would almost certainly have had much more sympathy, along with helpful suggestions on how to recover his money. I've seen those threads here multiple times. However, it's hard to claim fraud when you state quite clearly that you knew beforehand that the items could not be as described.


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

There are plenty of honest sellers on E Bay. I have had over 300 E Bay transactions as a Buyer and have never had a bad experience. Am I foolish to think that there are not a few bad sellers on E Bay, of course not. But there are bad apples in every walk of life. 

Either stop buying on E bay, or get over it.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I have over 1000 transactions on ebay and only had a problem with two of them. 
In one case items that were described as brand new were obviously used and in the second case, the lady shipped a 1-scale car rather than a G-scale car, she was selling a collection of her dad and didn't know any better. 
But in each case I returned the items and had my money returned, so no issue in the end. 
But I also wouldn't have gotton myself into the situation described here and the problem/expectation Norman had. 

I actually have more of a problem buying from reputable merchants on line directly. There is usually no feedback one can check ahead of time and if there is an issue one is at the mercy of what the merchant is willing to do. 

Ebay has become much more focussed on keeping the buyer happy - take a look at Sellers Central and you will see all the complaints.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have had very few problems on ebay, and none that were not resolved. 

That said, if I see the tiniest bit of strangeness, I email and ask questions. A problem seller will surface really quickly in how they respond. 

If I have the least trepidation after that, I pass. 

Don't let the scent of a "great deal" lure you into a bad transaction. 

Remember, if it seems too good to be true, it probably isn't (true) ! 

Greg


----------



## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

I can't help but to think that those that think this seller shouldn't get negatives for selling with false information must themselves also do the same thing. I do see that this may have been a case of not bothering to get the truth on the items, but it is still bad and other buyers need to know what this vendor did. I knew the claim of the 40s build had to be false, but there were several other cars sold and perhaps those buyers didn't know they were buying items not as "antique" as stated. And it does seem obvious to me that a Bachmann car isn't hand made. 

I tell people I don't gamble, but then I say I really do, I buy some stuff on ebay. I have worked on the cars and improved them and would have never found them if it wasn't for gambling on ebay. I have done well over 1000 purchases on ebay and have had several bad deals, people lie, people sell stuff they know nothing about and make up "facts". Like the "G scale" items I saw today that say 1/4 scale on the package if one looks very closely at the photo.


----------



## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

We don't agree with you, so we must be evil eBay sellers, liars and con men.
What a crock of horse sh*t !

Everyone tried to explain eBay's position or your prior knowledge of the inaccurate description . Nobody defended the seller and his inaccurate description.
Ralph


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bmwr71 on 07 Aug 2012 12:57 AM 
I can't help but to think that those that think this seller shouldn't get negatives for selling with false information must themselves also do the same thing. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Wow..................You need to get over this and move on.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 07 Aug 2012 07:08 AM 


Posted By bmwr71 on 07 Aug 2012 12:57 AM 
I can't help but to think that those that think this seller shouldn't get negatives for selling with false information must themselves also do the same thing. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Wow..................You need to get over this and move on.


If I'm not mistaken (and I probably am), this same poster (bmwr 71) came on here about a year or so ago and complained about going to an open house and was pi**ed about all the children getting in his way when he wanted photos of the layout. He posted that complaint and most of the members here said he was WRONG in complaining after he explained the incident in every minute detail. The poster disagreed agree (similar to THIS post) and went on forever about how absurd it ws to disagree with him. That's why I stayed OUT of this one. We are always wrong and he is always right. It will never end.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You are not mistaken, and that thread was locked, and it was as you say. Easy to find, search for "weapons" in the subject... (??!!!)

15 Sep 2011 11:51 PM 
Maybe this should go under the rant section. 

Saturday I went to Greenville, Ind to an outdoor layout open house. I had been there in July for a previous open house and it was already pretty dark and I didn't get any good shots. So this time I went early. 

When I got there I was really surprised how many people were there. In July, I was the only one walking around the layout. 

Being fall, the sun was dropping like a rock and if I was going to get any good shots, I needed to get cracking. The pikes were somewhat long so it took a while for the trains to get to where I wanted to shoot to add to the urgency. Here is the rub, all sorts of idiots in the way, rude and stupid idiots. And groups of little brats following the trains around not caring if someone was trying to get a picture. And like one time I was all set up for a shot and here comes some daddy A-hole with his camcorder following the train around and he about knocks me over (I was thinking about a knee to his face as he was bent down). And then another problem was some old lady with a walker standing around in a narrow path around the layout and she looked like a tempting tackling dummy in the situation. 

Such rude people. The parents could have done something about their snots, but obviously they nor the kids knew about courtesy. 

So guys, this man has a few open houses a year. When I go next time, what weapons should I take? Electric cattle? Bear mace? Taser? How about the good ol Louisville Slugger? 

I did get some shots, many just too dark. I overheard the owner saying that the layout was going to be in Garden Railways. I am not real happy with the shots as they were all taken with haste as well as in the act of dodging idiots. I do like some aspects of the layout, but like so many, no weathering, too many buildings and stuff, no freight loads, mixed scales, clutter. Wish he would hold open houses only for those that are real G railroaders or at least adults only that have some concept of manners. 

Doug


----------



## curlyp (Sep 4, 2009)

Greg, Bring one of your stogies (sp) Cigar smoke will keep some people away


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, always finding the right "downwind corner" at the Fairplex, by the way, hope you are coming in November. 

Greg


----------



## curlyp (Sep 4, 2009)

It is on my calendar so I should be there


----------



## changing scales (Jun 30, 2012)

I have been buying and selling on eBay since 99. Your complaint is as much about eBay as it is this seller. I can say I have had more trouble with one sale from a neighbor..... than I have in 3000 sales/purcahses on done through ebay. Ebay very much protects the Buyer.... Paypal protects the buyer even more. 

Now please don't get me wrong, I hold no love for ebay or their expensive money exchange system. Their charges are outragous at times....they even gouge on shipping now... !! But I have to say......... they are still the best game in town for reaching someone who might want to buy the things I sell. And as a buyer I have always been taken care of.. 

You did say you already kinda knew those cars were not old.........The price you got them for did not reflect any rare or antique value.... you actually got a good deal no matter when they were made......... You've got blinders on... this happens.. you feel your helping the world.... and you can't see you need to pick a better fight. You got your items, you were refunded what you complained about..... it seems to me.... and this is only MHO... so its not worth much...... but it seems your now mad that your not allowed to be the G scale police. For myself... I can make my own decsions and take my own chances on auctions.... I thank you for your concerns but I am sure there are more important things in life... Like getting those trains on tracks and running them. Enjoy the cool trains and don't buy from that guy. Block him as a bidder so you never have to do business with him even by accident and move on........... 

Peace... 

"Life is what you learn ........... your life is what you do what that knowledge" I heard this once and liked it 

Randy


----------

