# What does an engine "need" in it?



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Some of us have talked about this before.
Thought it would be a good thread.
I have bought used engines that was damaged.
all I reaaly need in them is
1 the 24 volt motors
2 leds head lights ,direction board.
3 some may want smoker.
4 sound unit w/speaker

I have been asked why is all the boards in side the locos for if you don't need them?
In the old days all we had was lights, smoke

In my mind engines are designed for meeting everyones needs the easiest way possible.

Some of us even remove everything and start over with some sytems.

I have a couple of engines that just have a plug in and out at each end and leads to the motors. nothing else.the lead engine controls them or a battery car.

what do you think.??


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Sound? Lights? Smoke? 

I dont even need any of that bourgeois nonsense!










I practice the KISS priciple: Keep It Stupedly Simple. The more pipes you add to the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the drains.









My proletariat locos are as simple as it gets, maybe thats why they *always* run. Not a StuperSocket in sight!


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## Big John (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

I think that manufacturers could do the hobby a big service by offering their engines in a "BASIC" configuration. They could eliminate all the controll boards and only include wires to the power pickups, front and rear lights. No smoke units. No sound units. No controll logic boards. No multifunction plugs. No special road names or colors. These engines could be sold as a kit with a reduced price for the modelers who wish to do their own thing. They could still offer a complete unit for the people who want to pull the engine out of the box, place it on the track and start running. I don't know what the cost difference would be but it could increase their sales and help offset their tooling costs for new equipment. 

Big John


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

With that kind of talk, Marty, you're bound to put some of the installer types around here out of business. 

I'm more from the simple school - lights, maybe smoke, simple sound, a track/battery power switch on some. No need to control every light, sound, and doodad separately to keep those trains running. I'd rather run my trains than tinker with electronics. 

-Brian


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

I think that the various manufactures are going to do what they determine is best for them.
[*] Manufacture a product that appeals to the broadest customer base, at the lowest cost so they can compete in the market.

[*] Manufacturing and stocking multiple versions of the same model will increase the cost of all versions.

[*] Since most products are manufactured in relatively small production runs, keeping quality control in check would go out the window. Just about the time they get somewhat close to working any kinks out, it's time to break the line or at least parts of it down and rearrange the process.

[*] Manufacturing and stocking multiple versions of the same model would most likely reduce the number of models available.
[/list]


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I like the lights, smoke generators are ok but they don't always work that well. I like aristos pnp socket, when it works


I have a bunch of locos where I gutted everything and added my own stuff--directional lights, firebox lights, sound. I dont think we'd save much money if they just delivered a loco with an engine in it. The costs of the PC boards is--maybe I'm wrong about this--way way less than the cost of paint and molds


I suppose Bachmann could offer a loaded, ready to run K27 and a stripped, Goodson appoved K-27. Kind of like painted and unpanted?


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

All I want are the motors and the lights (and I don't need a board for these either as a simple diode/resistor combination directly on the LED or bulb works fine for directional lighting). The smoke unit should be a plug-n-play for those who want to add it. Sound should be totally up to the user. There could also be a "socket" for those who want to easily change out to R/C or DCC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Well, for people who just want the basics, you would still want a socket to allow the rest of the people a way to go r/c or DCC or whatever. 

Lights, well, most people like the "constant lighting" which is a voltage regulator/supply and lower voltage bulbs/leds... 

So, if you look at this "minimum" you have an Aristo loco, almost exactly. Yes, there are separate boards to solder the lights to, that's so you don't have hundreds of wires inside, like a pair for every bulb. 

I cannot fault the wiring in Aristo in terms of design. It's actually simple, given directional and "constant" lighting. Give that up and you have either more wires or all track powered lights that are dim 90% of the time. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty have you bought a new vehicle lately? Guess what, you get all the crap weather you want it or not. Same for trains. Your in the electronics age face it. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

To reinforce what RJ said and I said, I don't think you can take away the constant lighting circuits, the directional headlights, the switches to turn the lights on and off, the smoke switch, and the motor switch. 

That's really all that is in your Aristo locos Marty. I'm assuming you are mostly talking about your Aristo's. 

Regards, Greg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Many people like their engines to smoke so a working smoke unit is a must. I don't see it that way. The only smoke unit I have ever seen that puts out a considerable amount of smoke was the MTH unit that was installed in another manufacturer's locomotive by an enterprising person! For me, all you need are the main basics of r/c control. The engine needs to start and stop realistically and it needs directional as well as continuous lighting and the engine needs controlable digital sound. Oh yes, the engine needs _weight _and the ability to pull at least as much as the prototype. 
Now, that being said, there are some things that I would _like _it to have (classification lamps come to mind) and things like flickering fireboxes are always a nice touch but that's pretty much it!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

RJ 
My first 69 chevy pick up I could sit in the engine area and work on it. My newer van I am afraid to stick my arm in it. 
Its scarry under the hood. 

I run almost 50% AC and USAT locos. I've removed alot of stuff on a couple of them. based on need. 
I know so little about wiring other than wiring a house as a contractor. 
Thats why all this RC stuff gets me. I like simple on/off forward /back. 
Should still be a basic around. 
good topic


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Marty, you might not want the new TE then! It's more complicated with scrolling menus, and programming, and more menus and more buttons! 

Can't have more "bells and whistles" without more complexity. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

You better forget about the new revolution system then. It's over your head.







. Later RJD


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

I always rip out the smoke units.. 
worthless IMO.. 

Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Some people like them, some don't. I have gotten the Aristo ones to work fine, I have a TAS that is even better, and will try an MTH soon. They are kind of fun. 

Some people don't like sound, some people love it. 

The manufacturers are making locos for everyone, and like cars, keep adding stuff in the hopes it will help sales. 

Regards, Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

An "Engine", a "proper engine" needs a pressure vessel full of water and a goodly fire beneath it to turn that water to steam. THAT is what an Engine "NEEDS" in it!


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

I want it all, and I want it now!

- A PnP socket for an R/C receiver or DCC decoder in all the major manufacturer’s locomotives. The only reason I gutted locomotives previously and built my own sockets was because I could not get the promised range out the 75 MHz receiver. That new receiver and decoder appear to have that problem solved.
- A factory mounted speaker and plug-in wiring for a sound board.
- Sound boards that plug in. No need to solder for power, battery charging, triggering sounds, etc.
- Constant intensity, directional, LED lighting. I can live with out the Christmas tree classification lights. White lenses would do fine.
- I don’t smoke, but don’t mind the new A-C unit as it is easy to remove if I need the space.
- A location, fastener, plug, charging plug and switch for an on-board lithium-ion battery pack.
- Plug in MU cables. Nice to have with a brand new locomotive so you can run it with a power car right out of the box. But once the receiver and battery are installed, they could be removed and only used when the battery pack needs re-charging or a trailing battery car is needed to extend run time.
- Receivers and decoders that don’t release magic smoke when you hook them up to USA Trains lighting circuits.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

I have never been a fan of LED lights in locos, either they are too blue or in Bachmann's case, yellow.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Paul Norton on 01/06/2009 9:59 PM
I want it all, and I want it now!


- A PnP socket for an R/C receiver or DCC decoder in all the major manufacturer’s locomotives. The only reason I gutted locomotives previously and built my own sockets was because I could not get the promised range out the 75 MHz receiver. That new receiver and decoder appear to have that problem solved.
- A factory mounted speaker and plug-in wiring for a sound board.
- Sound boards that plug in. No need to solder for power, battery charging, triggering sounds, etc.
- Constant intensity, directional, LED lighting. I can live with out the Christmas tree classification lights. White lenses would do fine.
- I don’t smoke, but don’t mind the new A-C unit as it is easy to remove if I need the space.
- A location, fastener, plug, charging plug and switch for an on-board lithium-ion battery pack.
- Plug in MU cables. Nice to have with a brand new locomotive so you can run it with a power car right out of the box. But once the receiver and battery are installed, they could be removed and only used when the battery pack needs re-charging or a trailing battery car is needed to extend run time.
- Receivers and decoders that don’t release magic smoke when you hook them up to USA Trains lighting circuits.
 

Paul you need to go DCC!!!

Item for item from your list above!!! 



I got the PNP for Aristo and USAT and the new bachmanns...
The factory mounted speaker is not always there, but 2 wires from the decoder to the speaker
Sound boards not only plug in, they are part of the PNP decoder, even better
Constant intensity is a given on DCC
Smoke units run from the rails, constant power and no worries about batteries
No holes to drill for charging plugs, fasteners, or switch, because no charging batteries and no batteries period! not even for your sound card.
Don't need mu cables, plenty of power, locos mu with the push of a button
I have 3 USAT decoders that run just fine thank you very much, and they will be in production soon.
 So, I want it all, and I have it now!










Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Vicki Pollard from "Little Britain" says it best.


Yeh but!!! No but!!! Yeh but!!! No but!!!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep I want all also. Makes for realistic trains. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

A motor and wheels. 

But then, as a kid, I had an awful lot of fun with a lionell engine with no motor in it. Kid powered.


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

I anxious to try the AirWire transmitter, QSI Gwire receiver and QSI Aristo-Magnum decoder with sound because it is Plug and Play and I can use it with battery power. But track power; no thank you! Been there, done that, and didn’t enjoy it all.

I had a large scale track powered layout in the basement almost twenty years ago. Slow moving locomotives would falter or stall on the points when switching. Switched to battery power and never had a problem since running at any speed, over anything inside or out, on brass or aluminum track.

I had a dead flat On30 layout with Digitrax DCC for two years and had the same problem even with nickel-silver track. Changed the 30 switch throws to Tortoise switch machines and powered frogs at great expense, and it was only good for a while. Within a year there spots on the layout where the locomotive would stall even on straight track and always in place you couldn’t reach with the track cleaning eraser.

I have operated on a lots of Lilliputian scale layouts with track power and DCC. It’s always the same. When a locomotive would stall in a switch, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. If you stopped on a switch and changed directions, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. DErail a lococomotive or car, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone BEEP! BEEP! track powered DCC. 

When you mentioned there are two things you have to know about DCC, I though to myself yes, how much do I ask for this piece of BEEP BEEP, and where do I find a sucker to buy it. The Lilliputian scales have to put up with it because they can’t run battery power, but we don’t.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Just motors would be fine. The smoke looks fake to me as do the leds (in steamers). But they can go ahead and leave all that stuff in. I tear it out and sell it on evil bay to people who burn theirs up


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 01/06/2009 9:23 PM
An "Engine", a "proper engine" needs a pressure vessel full of water and a goodly fire beneath it to turn that water to steam. THAT is what an Engine "NEEDS" in it!










Amen!!!!!!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Paul, I see you do not like track power or DCC. 

I do, and I DO "have it all" from your own wish list, it was an hinest, objective response. 

I'm not knocking battery, just that I have a solution that fits your "have it all" list in terms of functionality. 

So, keeping this on a "what are the features I want" level is good. 

You knocking DCC (which you did), and me knocking battery (which I am not doing) is not really helpful, don't you think? 

I just saw the latest pot-shot Lewis took at DCC, where Aristo is doing "cruise control" and it will be better than BEMF that the DCC people use. 

Let's stay out of these wars. I promise to do my best. 

Regards, 

Greg 


So, you want to "have it all" AND be battery. OK. 

I'm content to just "have it all" .... ha ha...


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm sure some won't like this, but oh well ....

Why can't we just post our opinions without getting chastised for knocking something?

Every thread seems to get turned into a control controversy: "What's best DC/DCC/Battery Power?" And that's OK, because it is often the new guys that pose the question, and they need to hear the arguments at least once or twice. But how many of these new guys are we driving right out of the hobby? If not at least MLS? Can't we just put our opinions on the table and let them lie? Do we have to come back and debate every little detail? The same players debate the same issues every day here ( some may consider me to be an offender also, but I certainly hope not).


Maybe I'm just having a bad day, but personally, I am getting tired of the same old stuff, day in and day out on MLS. (I know ... unsubscribe, don't have to read it, go somewhere else ... but I like this place. It's the best!)


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul I'm happy with what I am using. What is in the loco is what counts. It has a plug and play and that is what works for me. Later RJD


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

My apologies gentlemen! I must be getting cranky from too much painting. Fortunately the walls are all done, so now I just have to paint the floors, baseboards and trim. Then I can put my train shop back together.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Paul 
you simply brought out a good point that no others share or keep hidden. BEEP!BEEP!.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Del, I want to address what you said: 

Why can't we just post our opinions without getting chastised for knocking something? 

Your statement strikes me as funny. So, is it ok to knock something? Should I start knocking battery power every time it is brought up. What if my opinion is (which it is not) that battery power is no good at all? Just like Paul's opinion is that track power is no good at all? 

Is this fine? I've been chastised for knocking something because I prefered somethig else... so now it's ok to actively knock something because it's my opinion. 

Methinks there is not a level of fairness in the "rules".... 

All I am asking to give an opinion, without the unnecessary "knock" on the "other side" ... I am really tired of the consistent attack of battery power people on track power. 

And, if the goal is to not drive people away from the hobby, I say that you should keep your comments to advantages of "your method" not knocking what is not yours. 

Again, I almost always see this as battery people attacking track power. If you are tired of the "battles" maybe you should be advising people not to start the battle. 

I'm not shilling for any manufacturer, and I'm not using any free stuff from one. 

Regards, Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/07/2009 4:59 PM
Paul, I see you do not like track power or DCC. 

I do, and I DO "have it all" from your own wish list, it was an hinest, objective response. 

I'm not knocking battery, just that I have a solution that fits your "have it all" list in terms of functionality. 

So, keeping this on a "what are the features I want" level is good. 

You knocking DCC (which you did), and me knocking battery (which I am not doing) is not really helpful, don't you think? 

I just saw the latest pot-shot Lewis took at DCC, where Aristo is doing "cruise control" and it will be better than BEMF that the DCC people use. 

Let's stay out of these wars. I promise to do my best. 

Regards, 

Greg 


So, you want to "have it all" AND be battery. OK. 

I'm content to just "have it all" .... ha ha... 

Well Greg - Since you asked .... I just see your response to Paul as nothing more than a lecture on how he should express himself on this site. I don't see the title of "Moderator" next to your name, yet you seem to be assuming that role. I found Paul's response very interesting. Not because I am against DCC ( I am not, although I don't use it), just that I had not heard of these types of issues with DCC before. I found it very informative. It was just mentioned on another thread about GR magazine how product comparison can't really be done without retrobution from the advertisers. We can make comparisons here. That is the value of this site!


I guess anytime anyone expresses an opinion on a public forum, they are open for attack, or at least they should be prepared for a response by someone. But I think we could have more open communication if we thought we could just express our opinion here on MLS without having to defend it every time. 


And as far as "wars" go, of late, I seem to see every thread on every topic turned into a DCC promotion. If the number of pro DCC posts count in the "war", I think you are certainly winning. Since I do sell a battery power product, I do try to refrain from getting in the middle of these things with nothing more than the mention of an option. You may notice that both mine and Paul's post counters don't have nearly as many digits as yours.


And back on topic ... I would like to see a motor and some lights connected to a terminal strip (screw terminals). Shall we now rehash the whole super socket scenario?


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## Tenn Steam (Jan 3, 2008)

Semper

We do need cylinders and wheels. My engines have a nice plume out the stack without any electrics and the sound is wonderful when under load.
Bob


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

a motor that doesn't stall, wheels that don't slip, gears that don't strip, enough pick up points so it doesn't stall on dirty track, and just enough "play" in the suspension that it doesn't pogo stick off the rails going through Aristo turnouts--- Nah, probably too much to ask, especially the last...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

A quick note to Del: my point was that I see every thread on every topic turned into a battery power promotion. So if we both feel opposite, maybe everything is even!!! 

(although I gave examples) 

And I'm not assuming the role of moderator any more than you Del. 

Back to more neutral territory: I'm not waging a pro track power war, nor a pro DCC war. I have asked that threads that are really, specifically on track power only issues, like "DC vs DCC" not be invaded by battery proponents just to plug batteries. I promise not to (and please show me where I've done this) invade battery power threads with track power or DCC. 

Again, it's needless bickering over what is best. Not all threads are intended to be an open forum on battery vs track. 

Please read this carefully, I think you will see it's balanced and fair. 

And if you think I'm being unfair in a thread, call me out. No problem. But I will also complain when someone asks about a specific track power only issue and I see Paul's battery car one more time!!! 

Regards, Greg


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## BillBrakeman (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Greg, you want to give it a rest for a while. Marty's orginal topic was how much technology should be included, not what type of technology should be included. There was no mention of R/C vs DCC until you brought it up! After two day and two new postings I thought maybe we could get back to the original topic, but you just do not seem to be able to let it go. 

Bill


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Bill, you need to read the thread. This was STARTED by Paul's post:


I had a dead flat On30 layout with Digitrax *DCC *for two years and had the same problem even with nickel-silver track. Changed the 30 switch throws to Tortoise switch machines and powered frogs at great expense, and it was only good for a while. Within a year there spots on the layout where the locomotive would stall even on straight track and always in place you couldn’t reach with the track cleaning eraser.

I have operated on a lots of Lilliputian scale layouts with track power and *DCC*. It’s always the same. When a locomotive would stall in a switch, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. If you stopped on a switch and changed directions, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone. DErail a lococomotive or car, BEEP! BEEP! the base station would shut the whole layout down stranding everyone BEEP! BEEP! track powered DCC[/b]. 

When you mentioned there are two things you have to know about DCC[/b], I though to myself yes, how much do I ask for this piece of BEEP BEEP, and where do I find a sucker to buy it. The Lilliputian scales have to put up with it because they can’t run battery power, but we don’t.

I did not start this, I OBJECTED to DCC being brought into a discussion that had nothing to do with track power vs battery.

You need your facts straight... Paul brought negative stuff in about DCC when there was nothing about it in the topic. You obviously did not read the thread, go back 14 posts. That's where it started.


I objected.


Another battery guy objected to me.

Now you tell me I brought it up... you are dead wrong... I'm mad because someone else brought this discussion into a topic that had nothing to do with it. You should read the entire thread before you accuse me of what Paul did.


And it ain't the first time. That's my point.


I'm tired of this endless garbage.. and would have left it alone except for your unwarranted and completely wrong post.


Greg


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

It needs a fuel tank, engine, muffler, generator and traction motors !!!


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

Wow, Marty, you sure know how to start a controversial thread.







I would have never have guessed that from our time at the SELSTS last year.







As for myself and the BBKB RR I want it all sound, smoke, a crappe,r and the whole enchilada. Oh well, isn't it great that we are not all the same and wanted to do the same thing in the same scale with the same power. God Bless this is still America and we have choices today, at least.


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

I am sorry gentlemen, but there are a couple of remarks that I need to address.

My cranky post was a result of your “Paul you need to go DCC!!!” comment on page 1. As you are well aware our club abandoned track power back in the early ‘90s and will NEVER go back. And I bet if you ask around there are a lot of people that feel the same way.

 

Your remark “I'm not shilling for any manufacturer, and I'm not using any free stuff from one.” is way out of line. My description of the installation of the new Train Engineer was not a sales pitch, but a factual description of the installation in my GP-40. It was posted here, even though I knew I would have to take a lot of flack from you, because it is new and a lot of people would be interested in finding out as much about as they can. It is no more a sales pitch than you lengthy thread on the new QSI USA Trains socket.

In your thread you stated, “I have never asked for any free stuff” and neither did I. In my post I stated “I was very surprised when UPS showed up at my door with it.” The difference between the two the threads are that no one dismembered the QSI post trying to pick fault with the product. We all know you have a big hate on for Aristo-Craft and we know why. Give a rest! It’s getting real stale.

As for DCC, I am going to try it, but with battery power. I mentioned about purchasing the components in several different threads.

 

As a matter of fact I began the QSI installation in my GP-40 a number of months back and started writing an article about it for our web site. But when I was received the new TE to test, I put it aside as many others have already covered AirWire/QSI installations, and I knew people would be more interested in something new.

http://ovgrs.editme.com/Geep40w


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Barry 
Most of the time I just stand aside and go on to the next thread. 

** Its all Dwights fault for sitting back laughing at us sparkies of any kind thinking if all the world was live steam it would be so much happier place....


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

Yes, I am waiting for the next thread and to see who has to have the last word on that one. The old last word itis is getting a bit thin.







So did you ever get your Tuxs cleaned??


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Back to the topic at hand, I can see advantages to both the plain and simple approach and to the complex approach. I've stripped a bunch of locos down to two leads to track power, and two leads for motor, and leads for lights. I cans see where, especially if you run batteries, you want control over what goes on when, because you want to control battery drain. Makes sense. Smoke generators are a gimmick, mostly--people smile in delight when they see it, and I turn them on for that reason, but they aren't all that effective. I like having a few to run, but they aren't essential for me. I can definitely see where battery guys want nothing in there but the motor. 




But I just bought an aristo Rs-3, and I have to say when it works (and I've had it not work), the PnP socket is just great. I dropped a 75mhz reciever in there and I'm off. I can switch to batteries if I want to without tearing the loco down, I can easily turn the lights and the smoke on or off. I have a QSI card on order, and then I can control those functions remotely (except smoke). So what's not to like? Unless you really enjoy digging in and tearing everything out, you can shut off the battery draining functions at will. That's all good. Is it adding a lot of cost? I would bet no--circuit boards are cheap to produce, relatively speaking, and automatable


BobGrosh ahs a nice discussion going on about DCC can really do, and he makes a god point that you want more in there--that a large scale train can be way "smarter" than it is now, that it can easily catch up with cell phones. He has some very interesitng ideas, and if he's right, then aristo's new TE system is a dead end. And you can do DCC with batteries--hello, Airwire. Airwire gives you all the functionality of DCC on battery or track power 


So I'm in favor of havng more in there and more PnP.


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## BillBrakeman (Jan 3, 2008)

Eric, I say again, "GIVE IT A REST". 
Bill

ps You too Paul.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Time for battery/track/dcc debates to fall into the same verboten bin as politics, religion, and whether the Yankees are overpaid crybabies?


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Now boyz lest we forget these are toy trains, no need to come to blows over em!!!! Hee hee LOL The Regal


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

I do not use smoke, so I don’t really need it in a loco, but I don’t mind removing it as others love smoke. I do like isolation switches for smoke and motors. 

I do not care for fancy electronics, as I will remove it when I install a DCC decoder. As not all will want to install a control system it should have constant headlights, ditch lights… which work on standard DC track power. 

I do not see the value of Bachmann Super Socket. Maybe a compromise to the BSS would be to wire everything back to a terminal strip (I believe some manufactures do this in large scale already?). 

I do like sprung drivers. The gearing and other mechanics should be well made, save money of electronics and put it into the mechanics of the loco. Ask yourself this, what’s worse, a locomotive which won’t pull a decent length train at the risk of stripping a gear or one that does not have a glowing fire box? 

I think I like sound, a prevision for a speaker is a must, but I’ll purchase the speaker and sound unit. I don’t want to manufacture wasting my money on a cheap unit which I will throw away. A sound cam is a must for steamers, as don’t want factory sound, I think the starting of a cam on a driving axle is good enough, maybe just a drum with spots to install magnets??? Or I would mind if they installed the magnets and reed switch, then all I would need to do it wire the contacts of the reed to the sound unit. 

I guess in summary, I like things simply, I believe fancy electronics add points of failure to locomotives. Save money on electronics and put it into mechanics. I believe a locomotive which runs and pulls well are much better then one which has all he bells and whistles.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Barry 
yes and Lewis Polk even gave me a patch to place over the rose. Now if I could only see to thread the needle I would have it on. I ware the tuxs during the Sat night chat Lewis and I had about his new RC unit. Which left me totally confussed that night.


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

Wow, If could thread a needle I would have to worry about stabbing myself if i tried to use it.







You, on the other hand, are much younger and more adroit than I.







Send it to the cleaners/laundry and have them put it on.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

WOW... 

This thread has given me a real ride on emotions. 

From the outside and not wrapped up in any one system I must say that ALL of them are GOOD. I sincerely think that no one system is the ultimate solution. 


My solution and choice comes from simply a personal approach. The intellectual discussions here are something that are astounding for a simple "hobby". 


Keep up the challenging questions and arguments as we will all learn. Now for personality issues, welcome to empathy and dedication to a very serious hobby. I have been involved in others... nothing like this. 


We are human. Rejoice in this.

35 years in the sales business and I can really appreciate the direction of the commentaries. 


Thank you all for your input on this forum... 

Gavin


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Paul, just to set the record straight, I was talking about MYSELF about shilling for anyone (QSI I have been accused of, and NCE too), and also it was about MYSELF about accepting free stuff. I'm sorry I did not do a good job about making sure that you did not take me literally. 

Those statements were meant literally... many people think I get free stuff.. the only 2 things I have ever gotten free/accepted were 2 things that do not work, one a grease that destroys plastic, and the other, a power supply that does not work. I did not request either, but I'm not paying the shipping to send them back! 

I do not request special discounts, and have refused them when offered. I do not want to be "owing" anyone. 


Regards, Greg 

p.s. on topic, for track powered locos, I want a good and consistent power pickup system, and no sliders, and I also want "battery" connections that are completely isolated from every wheel.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I want it all being smoke, sound, lights, cruise control, quillable smoking whistles & swinging bells...but wait I just about have all of that now...









Working windshiels wipers on the diesels would be cool...


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Chuck 
I think working sanders is very important in winter.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Now that is one **** of an idea Marty, it would really work... wonder what would happen to the plating on our wheels? We might REALLY be following prototype practice in wheel maintenance... 

You might be buying some of Lewis' $45 stainless steel wheel sets sooner than you thought! 

Regards, Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 01/16/2009 5:00 PM
Chuck 
I think working sanders is very important in winter. 

Marty, That's a good one..


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 01/16/2009 5:00 PM
Chuck 
I think working sanders is very important in winter. 


What a great idea.

However, I cannot imagine a track powered loco would be able to pick up any power once the track was sanded.

That leaves only one viable power source, Batt............


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Think about the size of the sand pipe and how small the "sand" would have to be to get down that diameter of a pipe. I think instead of "sand" you'd be using something akin to "Talcom Powder" and although that might dry the track of oil I doubt if that would inprove traction. If what you used was gritty enough to actually add traction, it would also be so small as to get into bearings and such and wear them considerably faster you'd want.


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## BillBrakeman (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/16/2009 5:34 PM
Posted By NTCGRR on 01/16/2009 5:00 PM
Chuck 
I think working sanders is very important in winter. 


What a great idea.

However, I cannot imagine a track powered loco would be able to pick up any power once the track was sanded.

That leaves only one viable power source, Batt............










Wrong, oh mighty thinkers of the Garden Railroad World. Battery power would not be the only form of usable power. If one can develop working sanders, one could develop Miniature Diesel engines and generators. Just as "live steam" is a viable area of our hobby, why can't "live Diesal" become usable.

Bill


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Well, several people have made a fuel powered motor turn a generator, I've seen the videos. 

I wonder how fine sand could be to not turn into a powder? 

Well, if it can be made, it seems that MTH will do it! 

(the traction idea reminds me of the old "magna traction" on my lionel F unit. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/16/2009 5:34 PM
Posted By NTCGRR on 01/16/2009 5:00 PM
Chuck 
I think working sanders is very important in winter. 


What a great idea.
 
However, I cannot imagine a track powered loco would be able to pick up any power once the track was sanded.
 
That leaves only one viable power source, Batt............    











 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
URRRRRRRRR UMMMMMM WHAT????? track power rules ..................... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 01/16/2009 9:47 PM
Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/16/2009 5:34 PM
Posted By NTCGRR on 01/16/2009 5:00 PM
Chuck 
I think working sanders is very important in winter. 


What a great idea.

However, I cannot imagine a track powered loco would be able to pick up any power once the track was sanded.

That leaves only one viable power source, Batt............




















URRRRRRRRR UMMMMMM WHAT????? track power rules ..................... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



No it wouldn't with working sanders. It wouldn't work at all.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/16/2009 11:14 PM
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 01/16/2009 9:47 PM
Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/16/2009 5:34 PM
Posted By NTCGRR on 01/16/2009 5:00 PM
Chuck 
I think working sanders is very important in winter. 


What a great idea.

However, I cannot imagine a track powered loco would be able to pick up any power once the track was sanded.

That leaves only one viable power source, Batt............




















URRRRRRRRR UMMMMMM WHAT????? track power rules ..................... DAAAAAAAAAAAAAA



No it wouldn't with working sanders. It wouldn't work at all.



I will test it and get back to you....







he he he......


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Nick 
did you get that package I sent you yet? was it still ticking???


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

. . . . . all that is in now but actually working ! (not all of us are techies or wish to waste time or feel they have time, learning electronics)

_actual working PnP ! (same oh 'cause maybe sometime us with trackpower and a "transformer 30' away from a derailment or turnout", may wish to try out batt' on a unit or two) 

_nicely detailed on the outside (easier to remove if to fine for the end-use(r) than add-on) 

_LEDs (if "wrong" colour lightly paint them over as i believe GS in his tech pages told us for stock bluish light, lite coat of tamiya yellow(?) does turn things birght white! did that on my first LED bulb conversion in a 44T which went dead on me a yr later . . .hmmm still have to go under th hood and find where likely my amateur soldering broke !) 


_smoke for the ones that seem to need it (like when other don't like fine detai, l i tend to leave mine turned off the majority of the time and the only time it actually looks real is when the air is reaaal calm or your layout is indoors and hearing about what some of the older units do melted plastic . . . i may disconnect the darn things totally . . . . leave them in for the few grams they weigh . .)


_ and to also find a a big baggie of AristoCraft brakewheels hiding under the engine hood !!


. . . . now time to do some domestic dutie so later I can sched some more fun time with the railway . . outside yesterday during the continuing "big melt", taking a few pics of 'spotted rolling stock (albeit yrs ago when they were factory fresh vs a week or more in revenue service aka weathered . . . . . Marty is that 200grit ? ) 

later, 

doug c


. . . . amoeba in electronics


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 01/17/2009 7:11 PM
Nick 
did you get that package I sent you yet? was it still ticking???


Yup Marty i got it and it did stop TICKING but it didnt blow.. HE HE HE...







YOU SENT ME A DUD, HA HA HA next time get with TONY and he can tell you whitch battery to put in it so it doesnt stop ticking by the time it get s to me







HAAAAA HAAAAA.....
but any way, MARTY made me some real cool looking wheel racks for some of my flat cars and some hatchs for a couple of gravel cars im going to kit bash soon. but if you get a chance i could use 4 more hatchs that will give me enough to do a total of 4 cars. thanks again Marty..


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like Marty for got to charge the Battery







. Failed to work. So much for battery power. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

Nick 
I will send 4 more and a box of Nebraska gravel dust.. Send that to RJ


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 01/20/2009 3:46 PM
Nick 
I will send 4 more and a box of Nebraska gravel dust.. Send that to RJ





HE HE HE







Thanks Marty, these parts really came out well...keep up the great work...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: What does an engine "need" in it?*

I think Rex liked the dust too Marty! I heard everyone had a white car at your place! 

Regards, Greg


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