# signals



## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a couple to put on my layout, where would the be placed, coming out of a yard, and or by a crossover, or both. These are the South bend 3 light ones.

Tom H


----------



## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Signals should be used to govern track occupation. Putting them for access to the main line from a yard is appropriate, so is putting them just prior to a crossover......BUT..... These signals would typically have an absolute stop, meaning that trains may not pass unless strictly permitted by train order or signal indication. The signals on a crossover and access to the main line would typically involve more than just 3 colors. For example if you approaching a crossover aligned to change tracks and it is a clear track beyond, the signal may show a red signal on top and a green underneath or some combination. This means approach this signal at a medium speed and the progress at a clear speed. Your favorite railroad may differ on indications and terminology. 

Three signal display is typically just used for block occupancy or approach to a "home" signal at a crossover. The scope of signal types and aspects is way beyond the scope of this forum discussion. 

Can you put your 3 color signals at a crossover? Sure. Most of us won't complain. I'm sure that there are many "purist" or super railfan types who will complain, but if you want to add a little animation with signals.... ...I say go for it. 

I'll be glad to explain more if you like, but I just want to keep it short and simple. 


Tom P


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom P is right about signals on the RR. There is the GCOR rules about signals, but not all RRs follow it explicitly today and if you are modeling a RR that existed before the rules were collected in GCOR then you may want to find out how your particular RR handled them. Of course, if you are modeling your own RR and not any particular past one, then you can invent your own rules for signal meanings and let it go at that.

Many people think that RR signals are just like traffic signals on the street corners of every city in the land; where "Green" means GO, "Red" means STOP and "Yellow" means STOMP ON THE GAS TO GET THROUGH THE INTERSECTION BEFORE IT TURNS RED.

RR signals are not that way. Trains don't stop so quick... so in RR use they tell the Engineer of the possible status of signals ahead.

The lights are often in pairs or triplets and things like "Red over Red over Yellow" means Approach ready to stop at the next signal, unless it is not Red when you get there, and "Red over Green" might mean Approach Slow ready to take a siding at the next signal. Some signals are indications of what is to be expected two signals down the line. Flashing signals have entirely different meanings over steady state ones.

Most garden RRs are not big enough to have that kind of early warning signaling. Besides, are you "in" the train so you can see what the signals are and can control the train in accordance with them?

I have a set of Pennsylvania RR round targets that have 7 lights, all yellow, one in the middle and one at each around the edge of the circle at 12:00 o'clock, 1:30, 3:00, 6:00, 7:30, and 9:00. The 6 outer ones represented a semaphore signal where they were lit in pairs of 12 - 6, 1:30 - 7:30, and 3 - 9 and had general meanings of Go, Slow, and Stop respectively. But since my pike is short and I only had the one signal bridge with the two targets on it, I just put them on my line between two switches in a place where I could see them while using my R/C transmitter and it tells me which way the switches are set; 12 - 6 means the switch is set for straight and 1:30 - 7:30 means it is set for diverging; (I never found a use for 3 - 9). I wired the middle one to be always on, but the PRR may have had other meanings associated with whether it was on or blinking or off.

Even when I tried to explain the signals to visitors, nobody ever cared, they just thought it was a neat decoration on the model RR.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Mine run automatically as a function of what the train will do both at the station, crossing, and select turnouts. When a train needs to stop, the signals will automatically go from green to red. In some cases, I hold the green on for a moment to get yellow before the signal goes totally red. 

Mine are a simple piece of brass tube with a brass fender washer and an LED. A piece of 1/2" wire cloth forms the ladder. The whole thing costs a couple bucks at most to make.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Some RR use what is called a pot signal an may only contain two colors usally a red and a green or a red and lunar. These signals are very close to the ground and used for coming out of yards or even sidings. Depends alot on the operating RR as to the type of signals used. Gcor rules are a way for all RRs to understand and comply with other RR operating rules. As a lot of RR may use engineers from one RR to operate on a foreign RR. So a standard set of rules was needed. Later RJD


----------



## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

I ran commuter trains into New York City and we operated under NORAC Operating Rules. Under NORAC there are 16 major indications as follows.....Clear, Cab Speed, Approach Limited, Limited Clear, Approach Medium, Advance Approach. Medium Clear, Medium Approach Medium, Approach Slow, Approach, Medium Approach, Slow Clear, Slow Approach, Restricting, Stop and Proceed and a Stop Signal. However every indication has multiple ways it can be displayed all depending on the style of signal and its location. Clear for example has 11 different ways it can be displayed. All signals can be broken down into two groups as well. Automatic Signals and Controlled Signals. Automatic Signals are numbered and are only affected by track occupation or in conjunction with a Controlled Signal. A Dispatcher or Operator can not change the indication of an automatic. The most restrictive indication an Automatic Signal can give is Stop and Proceed which means, "Stop, then proceed at Restricted Speed (20mph) until the entire train has passed a more favorable signal." A Controlled Signal is a signal that is controlled by the Dispatcher or Operator. These signals have no numbers and are located at interlocking and control points. These signals can display a "Stop Signal." Railroads are divided into blocks and the blocks are divided by signals. Now say the dispatcher wants to cross a train from Main 1 over to Main 2 at "A Interlocking." The Home Signals at A would be dropped to a Stop so the switches can be lined for the move. Now Main 2 will remain at Stop which will cause the Automatic (known as a Distant Signal) before A to drop to a yellow over red or "Approach" which means "Proceed prepared to stop at the next signal. Trains exceeding Medium Speed (30mph) must begin reduction to Medium Speed as soon as the engine passes the Approach signal." Now say A Interlock is a 45mph crossover. This would mean the indication displayed for a diverging route at A would be a red over flashing green or "Limited Clear" which means, "Proceed at Limited Speed (45mph) until entire train clears all interlocking switches the proceed at Normal Speed". This would cause the Automatic before A on Main 1 to drop to yellow over flashing green or "Approach Limited" which means, "Proceed approaching the next signal at Limited Speed." We also had cab signals but thats a whole different ball game. Sorry if this is more then you wanted to know.


----------

