# Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!



## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Here is my next project, building a club elevated live steam track like the last 3 tracks I have built. This is my biggest project yet!



Here is what I have come up with for the area I have been giving, the public rides the 7.5 gauge trains and would be coming over to our track for viewing (club recruitment also lol)

No the roads are not used, they are a back way out and in the park in case of emergencies, the roads are 1 car length wide. 


How does this look for a plan:









Cant wait to get a good 45mm club underway finally! (will be a division of http://www.livesteamers.org )



Let me know if you see any blaring problems with my design. This is all raised up about 4-5 feet (tell me the best height for not killing the old folks backs) 


My last track construction methods and will be applied to this (larger stronger structure this time)

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew, 

_I wish you all success, as I'll be a mere 2 hours away on the Gulf Coast in a few years - with an engine or two._

Comments:

I think you drew what I call a scissors crossing (twice) - 4 switches and a diamond. Simple crossovers are less work and easier to maintain. The prototype would probably have a facing crossover at one end of the station and a trailing crossover at the other (asssuming it is double tracked - I note you have 3 main lines!) 

4-5 ft tall is a bit high - it won't encourage young Thomas fans on Open Days. Maybe 3-4 ft would be better.

I believe this is a live steam track? About 23' by 90'? That's pretty big. I'd move the car and engine facilities to one end and shrink the main loops at about 60'. Put the car tracks at 45 degrees and run then into an outer passing loop.

The engine facility needs to be on the outside, where the owners can service their engines without leaning over running tracks. 
I suggest you move the passing track on the inside to the outside (or duplicate it) and put engine sidings at the two corners. One could be a turntable and the other a metal grid with a couple of tracks on for those folk either needing to see their alcohol wicks from underneath, or to drop hot coal from their firebox. 

The same applies to the car tracks - putting them outside makes it easier for the operators. The locomotive moving out onto the track would need access to his/her train before accessing the main line. [Your design does that already, but from the inside where access is difficult.] 

The rationale is that a club track has equipment brought to the track for every run, so outside makes it a lot easier to load/unload. [The roads don't hurt either - can back your vehicle close.]

On the same subject, clubs are social, and an area where folk can hang out while waiting for the water to boil is fun. Note the fire-resistant rail and the holes underneath on this pic of (1/3rd of) Dr Rivet's steaming bay. (He provides chairs in the steaming bays for us old guys with bad backs and for Jason.)











Other than that, I'd just suggest you follow the KISS rule, and build one loop at a time. Don't forget folk like Kent and Brit who use wheelchairs. 

I'll tell Dr Rivet to take a look - he's been doing this a lot longer than I have. And tomorrow is ECLSTS, and I'll be running on Mike's track. I'll take a couple of photos of the engine facilities for you, not just the fancy engines.


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Pete, 

I'll be at York tomorrow. I'll keep a lookout for EBT equipment and introduce myself. 
Mike 
Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts, TDY in Frederick, Maryland


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Well, I design this to be the grand plan, and it would be built 1 mainline at a time, I think I was getting a big rambunctious when I put in the crossovers lol. 

The point of this track is that the people running the engines will be on the inside while the public would be viewing on the outside. The inside is all open and the tracks that come off the turntable will be for getting your engine ready, have the ipen centers for dropping coal, lighting alcohol fires etc etc. the car yard will be on a table will be on a long table that you can walk around on 3 sides. 

I had to leave the roads open just in case a car needs to get buy but I wanted to keep the 20' minimum diameter on the outside track so that any engine 45mm could run. 

Right now i will be setup for electric and live steam (have blocks for electric) because I only know 3 people down near me with live steam, the rest have electric and ALOT of it, plan is I run my live steam by them and convert them over  (it will have to start electric). 

There is a small track over in the waiting area for boarding the 7.5 gauge trains that the kids can watch the thomas engines, its built for their height, this bigger track was more for us diehards, StevenJ posted last weekends pictures of videos on the smaller track (just on the other side of the south road in my cad drawing) 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/11/aft/114927/afv/topic/Default.asphttp://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx 

The viewing box will be a raised area so the kids can climb and see but far enough away from there fingers getting run over or touching hot engines. 

As for wheelchair access around the inside of the track, I am in a dilemma for that one, club politics keep me from keeping the loop more simple. they keep asking me for something nice. I am also out of room, that square in the picture is all the room I have. I would have to remove the yard and the engine/steamup turntable for this to happen. I have meet kent in person at 2009 Diamondhead and shoot pm's all the time to britstrains about her coal fired engine so I definitely don't want to leave them out! (even though I live FAR away hehe) 

I know, a lot to think about. I do want to make it accessible to EVERYONE!!! Hmm move the car and engine facilities to the outside... , will post the new design soon hehehehe, Once I consult with you guys I will submit the ideas to the club.


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew, just a few suggestions. 

1. Keep the layout low enough for a handicapped modeler to operate! We've had people show up at DH and they are forced to work on the lowest layout. Also, look at the Pennsylvania Live Steamers Gauge 1 layout. It has easy handicapper access, and the track is low enough where the modeler, even in a wheel chair can easily do everything needed to operate a live steam locomotive. 
2. Keep all of your services tracks on the outside. That way, the operators, who normally work from the inside don't have to deal with an obstacle course while following their equipment. 
3. Consider the PLS layout for size. It's about 230 feet for one loop, it has a large tressel a beautiful 'S' curve and a tunnel. Watch the video below to see how nice a loco with a rake of nice coaches looks while going through the 'S' curve. 
4. Consider picnic tables or work benches for the inside as operators will have to work on their equipment. 
5. Consider a couple long "storage" tracks for those trains that will be making more than one run in a session [i.e. Tom Myers' Flying Scotsman in the video] 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tutH_rkuS4M 

Good luck and happy steaming.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew 

Since Pete T thinks I need to comment: 


Since club "politics" are going to constrain your design to contain some long term disasters, I yhink you need to mitigate them to the maximum extent possible. I recognize that some of these comments have been made previously, so this is just reinforcement. 

1] 30 to 36 inches is the optimum height for operation. Lower height requires people without R/C to continually bend over while attempting to control or service a locomotive on the track. Higher precludes not only wheel chair operators, but discourages younger operators who may be "vertically challenged" due to their age. BTW, if this facility is on PUBLIC land [like a park], NOT planning for handicapped access / use might subject the club to a ADA compliance inspired lawsuit. 

2] Having the yard and servicing tracks [at any height below FIVE FEET] will eventually lead to a personal injury when someone trying to control a "runaway" locomotive runs into the obstructing track structure while paying attention to the engine. I witgnessed this several times at the old track at the Indiana Transportation Museum in Noblesville. 

3] As designed it is clear the prevailing direction of travel is CLOCKWISE. Any train entering the layout will have to make a full circuit on the inside track befor corssing to either of the other tracks., Any train leaving to enter the yard/servicing area will have to pull past the single entry switch [at the top of your drawing] and then back into the areaa, again fouling that main for an extended period. You will soon find that that track serves only as a get on/get off track. 
4] Double [or scissors] crossovers using a crossing require careful maintenance and cannot be used at anything but a slow pace. I know; there is on the IE&W Ry at the bottom of my yard/steaming bay leads [and it uses #8 turnouts]. I recommend that you spaxce the single crossovers out so that in the clockwise direction a train can move from inside to center and then after about six feet cross from center to outside. In the same way the other two sets should move you from outside to center and then quickly move the train from center to inside. This will insure that a tain moving inside to outside [or vice versa] occupies the center track for as short a time as possible. Otherwise, THERE WILL BE A COLLISION within the first two hours the layout is in operation. Again, this is from experience on my layout. I redesigned the junctions on my double track layout at least twice before we got the collision hazard mitigated. 

5] You DO need to put in all four sets of crossovers. You do NOT want trains backing through the crossovers, it will bring ALL other trains to a complete halt during the operation. However, as mwentioned in [4] above, you need to have the distance on the center track beteen the movable points of the two switches at least equal to or longer than you longest piece of rolling stock. This is because the two "back to back" switches represent an "S" curve and derailments WILL occur at all but the lowest speeds. My personal recommendation is nothing less than 48 inches. 

BTW, the beautiful "S" curve at PLS referred to in the post above has NO tangent track in it and is the single largest blunder ever made in that track design. Apparently the 7 1/4 inch guys did not think that the same rules they must live by applied to smaller gauges. SO... no British or European rolling stock longer than about 25 inches with working buffers will reliably negotiate that curve. IF the cars have Kadee couplers that keep the buffers apart all the time, then longer cars seem to work ok. BUT, most people with Briitish coaches don't use Kadees, they use proper screw couplings. 


Good luck with the project.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Thanks alot for all your comments, information that mostly can only be learned through experience, thats why I posted my first track on here for all of you. 

Dr Rivet, I want to visit your track someday! lol. I am going to redesign this track right away and put in all of your considerations and others into it. It is in a public park, and we do serve the public on every 3rd weekend of the month (7.5 gauge train rides), even though we do have a good inssurance policy, I would rather not go down that route and do it right the first time! 

1. Height of 34" (good for kids, handicap, and good not to kill the back, nice to watch from a chair 
2. leave the inside open for servicing, walking 
3. have single switchs about 6 feet apart for moving on and off the mainline tracks as quickly as possible 
4. have the steamup bay/ car storage on the outside, might combine this into one area (club isnt that large yet). Center for cars, spurs on outside for engine bays 

Will post new design soon (tonight or tommorrow) 

Thank you all, I really appreciate it!


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

afinegan:[/b]
_help me out on my first rendition!!_[/b]


Well, rendition really isn't that difficult with a few friends in the right places. Talk to the CIA or NSA I'm sure they can arrange very covert transportation to a nice pleasant out of the way secret prision in some Eastern European country or to a friendly Middle Eastern country either one of which has excellent enhanced interrogation techniques. Don't worry whoever you send will never be heard from again so you don't have anything to worry about. I hope that is the help you were looking for?[/i] 



Oh, this was about a new layout? 

oops, never mind.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Very good, Chris,


As you have demonstrated, the English language is continuously evolving, with words taking on new meaning every day.


p.s. Missed you @ DH this year. Don't let it happen again.


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## StevenJ (Apr 24, 2009)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Curious Andrew, is this all being done with club money or a mix of both ours and the clubs? I'm sure I can contribue a fair amount. it isn't a bad idea at all to make a new layout design to make it friendly for the disabled. Though the current g scale layout isn't really disabled friendly either come to think of it. Though if you are going to do a mainline, mine as well do it right. How about design an s bend with sidings on the outside and we can use those sidings to steam up and then just drive the loco onto the main layout? Just thinking, that's all. Something more like this...













Again, just a small varation of your plan. If you don't like it, that's fine.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

I like your idea steven but the sidings I guess are a bit close to the crossovers, will create S-curves if you traverse all the switchs out of the siding.

Here is my new plan, gives a lot of storage space I think we do need, (plus lets us steam up together near the fridge of neverending sodas (power is also available here)).

As for the funding, The club is providing 100% from what I understand (I can afford to put any into it anyway lol) and your designs and input are just as important and meaningful as mine, lets figure out the best layout together and submit it to kim so he can go on with approval (I will pull frank into the plan also!). I know that norm said to make it nice, well nice BIG sweeping graceful curves is the best imo!

I was keeping the 2 bridges and the big curve on the south side open for the public viewing area, maybe put some benches and a fence here, this would have the nicest views with the 2 metal bridges (trestles or whatever we decide) and the nice curve. So the public is on the south side when they come by and the recruiters, engineers are on the inside. 

The steam-up bays and the car yard is a nice place to chat and hang out, maybe even put a roof over this or extend the roof from the station house. 


New updated plan, the crossovers have 6' of space before the next one, on the siding I let the track go straight for a bit to accomodate a full train so we can move on and off the mains as quickly and safely as possible. The inside of the track is now wheelchair accessible (but you have to climb under the track first lol).










Let me know what you think steven and everyone else! 


Link to the xtrkcad file so you can edit it steve.
http://www.diablosport.com/images/m...iteria.xtc

Xtrkcad can be downloaded here, xtrkcad is a pain sometimes but once you get the hang of it, its fun!
http://sourceforge.net/projects/xtrkcad-fork/ 


The 5 way switch I will be using, should be fine for yard traffic:


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## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

My three comments based on experiences at our local club's track: 

1. Provide easy access to the insides of the loops, even if there are no service tracks there. IF a train derails and you need to get inside, then crawling underneath may work. Or, it may not. 

2. Provide/include rolling stock storage tracks. Not permanent storage, but if every person shows up with a few cars and wants to have them ready to go then they need to store someplace! There is one gentleman at our club who has I think about 20 PFE Reefers that he pulls behind a cab-forward. Add my dozen British narrow-gauge cars, and another gentleman's ten 1:20.3 narrow gauge boxcars and room runs out real fast! And it isn't as simple as pulling them off and setting them somewhere. 

3. Make sure at least one portion of your track has overhead protection. Ours has a simple welded-pipe tent sent up with a removable cover that is installed in nice weather. Lights are strung up on it at night. If your run days turn bad it is nice, and if you are in a hot sunny area it is essential. 

I attached a picture of our club's track. It is well designed has held up well, though we will be adding some more crossover tracks between loops AS WELL AS installing a better means of getting into the inside of the loop!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Any way you slice it, I like it. I wish I could come help you lay track.

Best wishes on this project.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Hmm, I could make a walk over bridge over the curve between the 2 metal bridges into the center, but then someone will trip over that, or someone will need a ramp instead of steps , maybe I should build a tunnel under the layout, hmm florida, almost sea level... naa that wont work hehehe. 

j//k will hit that stump when I get there hehe


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## Bruce (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

I like the new plan. It has lots of storage space which we need badly. Will the electrics be designated to a certain track to keep the oil residue off the pickups. Wouldn't want to see Franks challenger with steam oil 
all over the pickups lol.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Ya, we will have to figure that one out lol, maybe since there are so few of us live steamers for this track and its mostly electric (for the time being) we might have to just clean it after using the track, frank already has this clean thing on a stick that we have been using on the smaller track, it seems to work fine. 

more stuff to think about... lol 

I was definnately going to setup blocks so electrics can run on any track, ifr its clean or not... hehehe (can always designate a track for electrics out of the 3 but if its not the inside , the out 2 will have a small area that the live steamers will crossover. I don't think its that big of an issue since where mostly like going stainless.)


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew, regarding handicapped access, look at the PLS grass covered tunnel. It is good for a couple reasons. Carts with equipment use it, and of course, so can wheel chairs. It isn't fun to load and unload carts and then crawl under any layout. As we all get older, getting down on our hands and knees gets tougher and tougher. What's the average age of your club? A rope type gate would be required at the entrance, but that's easy to navigate. Finally, watching trains enter and exit tunnels is always exciting. 

Have you thought about an area reserved for unloading and loading cars/vans, etc.? Maybe no parking around the layout, only short term parking for loading and unloading. 

Regards, 

Will


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew, 


Here is a picture of the PLS grass covered tunnel of which Will speaks...


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew,

I just got back from ECLSTS and unloaded my trains and photos. Here, as promised, is one side of Mike Moore's track - the other side is similar:










You've certainly had a few comments in the last couple of days. I added the notes on the photo to address some of the issues mentioned. 
Mike's track is about 64' by 25'. 

I'd only add the odd comment to your latest plan. (BTW - it might be easier to grasp if you had the benchwork / open areas delineated?)

One thing that happens is that you have busy days when everyone turns up. The comment about 20+ reefers is real - Alan had 18 plus 6 boxcars plus a caboose behind his AC-12 yesterday afternoon. Train storage doesn't have to be expensive track - it can be an ordinary (solid core) door with rows of wooden 'rails' on it. You keep a couple under the layout and bring them out on Open Days.

With three main lines, I'd add back your inner passing track on the inside, and a couple of sidings - parking for trains that don't need to go back to the main storage yard. (Especially if Alan is flying on the outer with his Daylight and 18 coaches!) Agian, on Open Days the trains can stay parked while the operator waits his turn.

_As you'll be my closest track in a year or so, I'm looking forward to helping you make it a reality. Perhaps I'd better join the Club._


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

The 5 way switch I will be using, should be fine for yard traffic: 

Andrew, 
While the Train Li 'switch' is a fine piece of equipment, it's really not needed. You can push a piece of track around exactly the same way, if you firmly clamp/screw one end and put in something to hold the other end in alignment. The 'crossover' in my photo is actually one switch and a piece of track that is 'slewed' around to meet it, (thus providing a smoother inner loop without a switch to derail the high-speed runners.) See circled area below:


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Nice initiative.
I think the 20' diameter is a bit on the small side. Our "club - track" here in Denmark has a few places with a diameter of 22 feet, and it gives the old 1980 Aster Express locomotives problems. (Agree with dr. Rivet other comments) I know it is hard with the space you have, but try to see if you can get more. My advice would be: Don’t go below 25 feet.
The kidny shape is a good and tested. No comments there. But for the layout: You will get problems with Right hand driving (As stated by dr. Rivet). Right now all trains run the same direction.
If you want to check out how we have done it look at: 

Present layout: http://www.havebane.dk/?Fakta_om_banen#googtrans/da/en
Extention plan (with gradients): http://www.havebane.dk/?Fakta_om_ba...rans/da/en 
(It is a google translation from Danish, so be ready for some ping-pong English)

Our main problem here is the mixed traffic. We have the fast gauge one express engines and slow LGB scale running at the same time. It gives a lot of problems, and we are thinking of rebuilding some of the layout. The solution is to move our main line a bit. (see plans) Anyway I think it is best if you choose a pragmatic strategy, and build the layout, but are ready to make modifications when you get to know who are actually running. 

There is a very cleaver G1MRA portable club-track that have a 2 level layout, where you can run right hand driving on a small space(they run it the "wrong" way of course). I can scan it to you if you are intrested. Send me a PM if you need it.


Regards


David


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

*New Update!!!!!:*










I priced out the above layout and estimated the entire thing including stainless steel track, switches, and wood would be around $4500 (1/2 of the cost is the switches ).


After I got the county park approval from the park system board of directors, I went up un front of the Tradewinds and Atlantic Railroad and showed them my track plan. Due to funding they could only approve $2000 which is a good start!. I am in the process of contacting track manufactures for track prices of stainless steel (a condition of the club approved funds due to the amount of electrics that will run on this track) and will see what type of special club deal I can achieve (if any is available). 


For $2000, I estimate that I can, at least, build the main line support for 3 tracks and purchase 2 full runs of tracks and 2 switches. This will be a great start for us! 

I am also trying to figure out ways of generating the rest of the funding, which would be in the amount of about $2500, if not - its not the worst thing in the world, the club can fund the rest in a year or 2 once they finish some other projects on the board.

Comments and knowledge are appreciated if anyone has any more input on this type of venture.

In the end, IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME!!!!! (yay, south florida will have a good gscale club again!)


















Andrew


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

I am in the process of contacting track manufactures for track prices of stainless steel (a condition of the club approved funds due to the amount of electrics that will run on this track) and will see what type of special club deal I can achieve (if any is available). 
Andrew, 

I just spent a pleasant day at Dr Rivet's and I thought you'd like to see the overall view of his layout. Jim uses 24'+ radius (48' diam) curves and has Trex composite planking as the layout surface. 






















His track is all Sunset Valley, and I did make the comment that it was nice to be running on such a huge track and not worry about derailments. The rail is brass, and he does occasionally clean it and run electrics. 

I'm not sure what the advantage of stainless will be - it will still need cleaning before the sparkies can run to remove the steam oil ! 


Our main problem here is the mixed traffic.
David makes a good point. Jim has split his open days into "mainline" (i.e. 1/32 fast trains) and "narrow gauge" (i.e. slow.) One could make a good case for separating your inner loop from the double-track main line, so the slow guys keep out of the way of the fast ones. If it were separate, the beginners wouldn't be in quite as much danger of obstructing a Daylight flying past on the Main. An flyover to reach the inner from the yard would add interest ?


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

I was going to setup the entire track for running electrics and limit the few live steamers to 1 track or just let them know , wipe the track down when your done. The small layout of stainless steel that we have currently runs both live steam and electric on and off and everyone knows about wiping it down after running. The stainless steel track works great for electrical conductivity! 

A flyover is in the final plan I didn't put up on mylargescale yet, The final plan also has all the tree's in it and they are proportional. The layout is the same though. 

Trex is nice but I have to weigh the costs, the first initial go around will probably be all pressure treated wood with a good layer of thompsons water sealer on it. as the club grows, we can make the layout better do to increased funding! 

Mixed traffic is a necessity at this point, I am going to block out the lines electrically, so you could run all electric if you wanted to, or run electrics and live steam (turn the blocks off when live steam runs across electrical sections, and off on the mainline the live steam is running on) 

As for stainless, the board members to the club know that stainless's oxidation is electrically conductive, as long as we keep the steam oil cleaned off on the steam track, we should almost never need to clean the track (not like brass!). I do like brass better due to the higher traction you get from it (bigger live steam loads!). This track has to be an almost a 0 maintenance line (haha yea right), come out on a run day and run trains and relax, no drama or cleaning work (if you run live steam you clean your own mess), and this is the best way I see that it can work at the time being. 

If you want me to build it your way, -= insert money here =- , im just joking hehe, but yet I am doing the best I can for the initial track and the funding I am provided


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

If you want me to build it your way
Andrew, 

Not at all - just offering what I hope are constructive comments. If you guys found the stainless works, then go for it! Personally, I haven't used track power since I discovered r/c, batteries, and live steam.

I missed something in your initial post - that you've had a little experience









Here is my next project, building a club elevated live steam track like the last 3 tracks I have built

and you didn't mention the club was already running 'g-scale' electrics on stainless track. Most 7 1/2" gauge guys are live steamers.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

ya I was just being tongue and cheek, and I meant that statement for everybody hehe (always lots of talk on here hehe) - basically poking fun (its hard to do it on a board and not in person







)

ya, I have more electric gscale guys than live steam, and here is the story of revilatizing the gscale hobby in south florida. Some of the efforts anyway

There use to be a big club in south florida called "Friends and Family of Gscale" and they had a trailer with a very large modular layout, about 8 years ago, the trailer got stolen and the club dispersed.
I found the officers of that club and they have the "book of names" of all the gscale people in south florida and I got the officers on board with Tradewinds and Atlantic Railroad with the promise of a big club track some day. I use to always get the "no andrew, were not building a track for just you" argument, but finally after finding about 10 local gscale guys (with ALOT of stuff and no where to run!!), my club track wish is starting to come true 


I built a small stainless steel track where the kids wait on run days, and its been a great success, the public LOVES the trains on the gscale track (kids literally TRAMPLED the flowers along the front fence lol), it proved to the club that a bigger track would help grow the club in a good way. This is when I received the funding for the new track.

When I go to the local hobby shops in south florida, they all have this idea in there head "gscale is dead" and look at me funny when I tell them what I am doing, this is a definate example of "If you build it, they will come", already a bunch of the 7.5 gauge club members have some gscale live steam engines on order!


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew 

One correction to Pete T's description of my track. It is all Nickel Silver, not brass. Oxides of NS are far more conductive than brass, and it weathers much better than brass. 

Also, Based on cost, I would not pick Trex as my first choice. It WAS the best answer in 2000 when THIS particular reconstruction took place. There are less expensive composites that are FLAT and do not have to be surface planed. DiBond recently had a sale with 4x8 sheets at about $62, the price of really good exterior plywood, especially after you put a couple of coats of good paint on it. 

My guess is that the group will need to go through at least part of the expensive learning curve to find out that sucking up the high cost up front in layout construction is cheaper in the long run. Given that the IE&W has been through at least five "rebuild" cycles involving methods to maintain support and alignment for the track, one full track replacement [code 215 to 250, and a complete rebuild of the posts and decking [2000-2001]; I am qualified as an "expert" in how NOT TO DO STUFF. 

Push as hard as you can for the "right" answers, and then just build something so every one can learn from personal experience. 

Regards 

Jim


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Posted By Dr Rivet on 14 May 2010 08:52 PM 
Andrew 

One correction to Pete T's description of my track. It is all Nickel Silver, not brass. Oxides of NS are far more conductive than brass, and it weathers much better than brass. 

Also, Based on cost, I would not pick Trex as my first choice. It WAS the best answer in 2000 when THIS particular reconstruction took place. There are less expensive composites that are FLAT and do not have to be surface planed. DiBond recently had a sale with 4x8 sheets at about $62, the price of really good exterior plywood, especially after you put a couple of coats of good paint on it. 

My guess is that the group will need to go through at least part of the expensive learning curve to find out that sucking up the high cost up front in layout construction is cheaper in the long run. Given that the IE&W has been through at least five "rebuild" cycles involving methods to maintain support and alignment for the track, one full track replacement [code 215 to 250, and a complete rebuild of the posts and decking [2000-2001]; I am qualified as an "expert" in how NOT TO DO STUFF. 

Push as hard as you can for the "right" answers, and then just build something so every one can learn from personal experience. 

Regards 

Jim 




Look, there's been talk endlessly about building an elevated layout. I wish someone would just admit there is only one way to really build IT! No beating around the bush. And Rivet's you of anyone should get going on this - if you know what not to do you must, obviously, know this is what you must do. So here's the recipe:


1. 4"-6" I-beams; 6' long for legs (or longer to maintain nominal 3' level deck above grade & 3' in concrete. One or two legs per deck frame joint; up to owner depending on their degree of OCD and paranoia about loads.


2. Space legs 4'-5' apart; Install 3' deep & 3' above grade); 18"-24" diameter hole with concrete; 6"-12" of concrete above grade.


3. 30' radius curves for Bednaric's 200mph; they finally improve G1 Aster performance to real 1:1 rather than scale speeds. (No one is safe; nor can anyone withstand Bednaric's social pressure to build them a layout to prove it.


4. Welded ladder frame for deck; 1/4"-3/8" angle iron rails and stringers.


5. Deck surface of owners choice - must be architecturally designed and custom made - perfect esthetics essential!


Now for the REAL secret to the perfect elevated layout:
6. Automatic digital electronics controlled hydraulic cylinders at each ladder joint. GPS sensors constantly monitor deck elevation adjusting by hydraulics as necessary to maintain absolutely level deck. Or adjust for grades as owner desires.
It will last forever, no maintenance and never a thought to needing improvements, with the exception of overall size. In which case, tear it all down and rebuild starting from #1 above; all new materials. 


Perfection is priceless, for everything else there are Credit Default Swaps from Goldman-Sacks.


Let us know when you're ready for the Golden Spike ceremony!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Perfection is priceless, for everything else there are Credit Default Swaps from Goldman-Sacks 
Nice one, Chris. 

But don't forget that, as time moves on, better solutions are invented. Will 30' radius handle the new Mag-Lev models? What about Alan's new, improved Cab-Forward double-header with after-burners? Will I have time to drink my coffee before my ruby returns from a trip around that looonng loop?


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Well we just got off to a great start, finally the heat is subsiding and letting us get to work.

Well, Bill Muzenmeier (well known train aficionado in South Florida) donate to us 211 2x4's of wood which helped out club track project out greatly, The track plan is the same since the last rendition and now I am going to post some pictures of our work this past weekend. We decided to build it this way due to the materials at hand, when the first curve was put together it is surprisingly study and stable!


First Ill start with some pictures of the area with the 7.5" gauge station in order


U can see the construction in the background 











Here is a shot from the lake side:










This is the previous small Gauge 1 track we were using for the time being, and was to generate interest for the larger project (plus the kids love it when waiting to ride the larger scales)










So here is some work in progress, Bruce Harvey (Bruce), Steve Janus(stevenj) and Frank Vanak (not on mls yet, a shame! lol) can be seen the the background:









Here is the 4 of us for this session of club track building, too bad I didn't realize my camera is focused on closer objects (yes we look pretty beat, digging 104 holes around 2' deep in 1 day will do that to ya)

Left to right: Frank, Me(Andrew), Bruce, Steven 











We worked on it from 10:00am till sundown on Saturday and Sunday I put in about 2 hours (All I could do), This is where we are at 1 week in


























The largest diameter is 20' and as you can see, I couldn't do much more, but this track will be great once it is finished. Currently, it is the best place I could have put it, and got the approval from the park for.

Once it is done, anyone in the South Florida area will finally have a public place to run Gauge 1 (and Gauge 0, we will be putting in a dual gauge track on the inside circle)

Anyone have any questions don't be afraid to ask,This has been your local update report of the new track at Tradewinds Park, Broward County (http://www.livesteamers.org)











Andrew Finegan


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Looks great! Can't wait to see it in person.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

i was thinking of adding on to my RR, and am considering using 4x4 posts. Does anyone (of course they do) want to offer opinions on when to use two uprights vs. just a single centered post? 

Seems to me that loads on the posts aren't all that high.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

We used 2 2x4's because we had a ton of 2x4's, and we also knew that people might sit on it when we aren't around, problem with a public park, but the small corner we built is VERY sturdy so far! 
I am going to try to run home after work today and get in an hr of work if I can before the the sun goes down


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## dmk092 (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Hey Andrew, 

First, thanks so much for being the moving force behind this. I just got news from my school that I will be doing a pediatrics preceptorship near my house, so I will be around for at least the first half, and possibly all of december, so if you need help on those weekends doing construction, or want to have a small scale event, let me know ( Im pretty sure I wont be working weekends, but Ive heard that scheduling can get a little creative). The track plan looks great.
-David


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

John 

My original layout used single 4x4 posts spaced between 60 and 66 inches. The deck was 24 inches wide. If people leaned on the edges [of course they did - ALL the time] the layout tilted slightly. IMHO, IF your track deck is 12 inches wide, a single post will work fine. Once you get to 16 inches or more, the double posts provide both stability and the ability to adjust things as the wood dries out or the posts move vertically for any reason. In preparation for my Nth reconstruction/expansion, I measured the relative positions of all 288 posts on the main line. My spacing of a pair of posts [perpendicular to the track axis] is nominally 22 inches, the deck is 38 inches wide [mostly]. Based on an inside radius of 24 feet [not diameter], and the support requirements of Trex decking, the post pairs are spaced at nominally 44 inches along the axis of the track. 

I have been telling people that my track circuit is about 560 feet on the outside main, based on counting track joints and fudging a little. The measured distance turned out to be 559 feet 4 inches. The inside measured distance is 546 feet 3 inches. 

Regards


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

I am availiable this sunday ( i hope) if you are going to be out there again.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew: 


Just pick up on this thread. Saw an earlier post and looks like using the 5 way switch. If this is the one offered by Train-Li Be advised that I have had one now in place outdoors for about 9 months and has been protected from the elements, however I have notice a problem due to heat. And if you say your in FL you also will have the same problem and its warp of the base of the unit. I also had warp on the slider used to lock the tracks in place when lined to a pacific track. The warp-age affects how the track can be moved to line up with the other track. It becomes impossible to slide to line up with the other tracks. I have not called Train-Li as yet but hope to do so tomorrow to see if a fix can be had. I got no results from them on the first problem I had with the slider. I made one of my own but Train-Li has not come up with a fix on it so far. 


Where about in FL are you folks? I make a couple of trips per year to the Tampa area. later RJD


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## Bruce (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Broward county, the City of Coconut Creek. 

Bruce


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Thanks Bruce. Later RJD


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Where did you get the 5 way switch/ And what is the cost?

Great Idea for limited space.

Thanks


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Train-Li sells them but aceinspp says heat might warp it and hes going to call Train-Li to find a solution:

Here they are:
http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/yswitch-manual-p-61.html









The other way I was thinking was some flex track and open ended rail clamps (the bridge type) on the 5 opening side and the other side have it clamped tight, kind of making your own in a way.
Just a piece of flex track the same length and these on the end to lock the track depending on where you want it to go:


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Thanks Jim. that is quite useful information. 

John


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## StevenJ (Apr 24, 2009)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Just an update, the superstructure is completed. There is no deck yet or track. All the stringers and post, etc. were completed yesterday 10/2/2010. I don't know if Andrew took photos of it yet, I forgot to bring my camera yesterday when myself, Andrew, and Frank finished the superstructuer yesterday. If anyone is curious about running on this track, it is located in North Tradewinds Park. Please go to our website livesteamers.org for times. We are open to the public every third weekend of the month. Hopefully if all goes well we should have the decking and track installed within the next four to eight weeks. 

3600 W Sample Rd # B 
Coconut Creek, Florida 33073 
United States


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Nice work Fellas................


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

New update:

Like Steven said, we have completed the bench work and here are the pictures.

















Here is an animated gif I made (just for fun)









here is a few pictures stitched together 









Now on to get the decking material and order the track!


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

I have a friend who lives in Florida and he is always worried about rot and bugs when using wood. You don't seem to be.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

I am using pressure treated wood, I expect it to last 5-10 years, will replace what becomes rotted over the years. This is the third layout I built in florida and havent had a bug troubles or wood rot yet (oldest layout I built is about 3 years old). 

I build them this way more due to cost than anything else (but I know in the future it might cost me more replacing it). Yet it is better than not building one at all


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Andrew:

I have talked to Axle and now waiting on a replay to see what can be done to correct the problem with the 5 way. Hopefully they will change to a different type of material for the deck as its to poris and conducts to much heat. I'll post more on the results when I hear back from him. For now I'd advise folks that have one not to use in a sunny hot area. Later RJD


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

I built wood fishtanks.. and never had issues.. these were outside with salt and water . it should be fine


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Look what we got done on Saturday

























































We will probably trim the edges a bit pretty soon
Ya, that is Karen my pregnant wife in the last one (reason I cant come to diamondhead this year lol)

The club treasurer sent out the check for the track today, hopefully we will be running trains in no time!


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Ok, 120lbs of stainless and brass code 250 rail sitting in my garage, 3 dual gauge switches, bender, clamps of SVRR all waiting for installation. Track Installation is scheduled for Sunday, November 7th. (Yes cjsrch, you can come to this one ). This weekend Ill be in the smokys and next sat is my wifes coed baby shower. 

Just giving you guys an update (should of put up a picture of the wooden box Pete sent me!) 

Andrew


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

We got the outer 20' diameter minimum svrr stainless steel loop installed today (despite the 30mph wind and threatening rain here and there). 2 more loops to go!









Frank got so excited when we were finishing the loop, he ran home and grabbed his MTH bigboy! (we will also run live steam on this track lol)

























Tune in next week, we will be installing more track, another loop of stainless and a loop of dual gauge brass, with dual gauge #6 switches!


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Another almost successful track building day, WE RAN OUT OF TRACK. 
I have 1, 6 foot section of SVRR stainless on its way already and order 6 dual gauge tie strips for the brass track (just in case, I have left over brass rail from my backyard track)

I miscalculated the indented part of the kidney bean (we went in slightly too far, min diameter is still 20' so no foul). So this makes 2 Sunset Valley stainless steel 156' long, loops!
You can see Bruce standing here scratching his head lol









Next week, I have a train show to go to on Saturday (drum up more interest, small portable track), and Sunday we will put in the dual gauge rail, finishing phase 1 of the TARR Gauge 1 track

Andrew


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

We almost finished the track last Sunday, the third Dual-Gauge mainline was installed and 1/2 the siding was installed until the sun went down. Dual gauge takes a bit longer to assemble. Sorry I don't have any pictures but will once the we finish the first main phase of this track next weekend. I will start a new thread with our first steamup! 

On a side note, An MTH Big Boy, Challenger, and Triplex were running on the outside track all day. Was fun to build track while trains ran around it!


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

Congratulations on your progress so far. I believe I've been to that park to drive through the Chistmas lights. My sister lives only a few miles away. And if my memory serves me, Sample Road is the street where the hotdog stands used to be staffed by bikini clad off duty dancers!


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

YAY, Phase 1 of the track is complete! I did a test run with my speedy Aster Thunderbolt and it runs extremely smooth, even over the dual gauge switchs, through the sidings, everything!
Here are some pictures
























Here is a pic of my Thunderbolt testing the track out








I will make a new thread on our first major steamup and Golden Spike(Screw) Ceremony

*Thank You for all the help you have given me on the initial design phase of this track!*

Now I need to go edit my signature lol


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## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

*RE: Finally!: Found enough local Gscalers, 7.5 gauge club is PUSHING me for a club track plan!! help me out on my first rendition!!*

ran my ruby a couple weeks ago that week that no one was able to show up and i went at 8am not knowing lol . 
with the large curves we can really let these things go! cant wait to see your lion run on it as i know on the old track you would sometimes have one side of wheels literaly lift off the track


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