# New to the Group and Making the Big Leap!



## tonkamo (Sep 19, 2011)

Hi Gang,
My name is Keith Blanchard. Many of you may know me from Pine Canyon Scale Models fame. After 50 years of modeling in HO, O and manufacturing kits in S scales, I am moving to Fn3. No more manufacturing, just building a layout for myself. I am fully retired and finally have time to do somthing new. I have a level, flat yard space approximatley 50 by 80 feet for my desired D&RGW in 1:20. I hope to start laying track this comming spring. Which would be the best way to go? Electric battery power or live steam? For doing a bit of switching, I suspect electric. However the budget will allow for live steam if it would be better for fun. I know this will probably start a debate, but I want to make the right choice. If live steam, is coal fired more desireable than other fuels? I know you can't go wrong for realism with the smoke and smells of coal. But is coal burning good or bad? I am pondering on the new K-36 in coal burning. But would it just be better to go with electric and not have all the mess and repairs/maintenance? I have spent many days reading posts on these forums and have not found any firm answer. What would you do if you could start fresh with todays fantastic rolling stock available and a budget to support your habbit? I am excited to meet some of you and wonder what is happening here in the Fresno, CA area.
Cheers, Keith


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome Keith. With your experience, you should have a great time in Fn3! I model the D&RGW in Fn3 with a Accucraft C19 electric and a Bachmann Connie. Both are equipped with Airwire/battery and Phoenix sound. If you decide to go with the new coal-burning K36. I have fired 1.5" coal-fired live steam locomotives and its pretty much a "hands-on" all the time. I have never fired a coal burner in the smaller scales, but what I have seen are usually on elevated steam tracks, not ground level. 

Because you don't live THAT FAR from Southern California, you might want to come down to the Fairplex layout in Pomona in the first weekend in November. You will be able to see what it takes to run RC and battery trains on a large layout. Give you a hand-on experience. Also the Southwest Garden Railways Show will be that weekend located adjacent to the layout. Lots of people to talk to and vendors in Fn3. I believe there will be an elevated live steam track set-up at the show. There usually is. Good luck in your new venture......retirement AND a new layout.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Each way has it's merits, the more complicated you go, the more follow up... 
I chose battery/ R/C because I'm only running 2 trains and I don't know nuthing about unlimited funds.... 
Looking at this Monsoon's earthmovimg projects, I'm glad my pike is of modest size... , I've got 30' of track somewhere under sand and silt... and a bunch of migrant rocks to usher back to their roots... 
I can't tell you what to like... 
Try to get an idea of the size of your roster and then it will be easier to determine your control method. 
The other consideration is elevated or on the ground, most live steamers prefer an elevated flat track. I'm on the ground, but my knees still flex... with unlimited funds I'd consider raising the dirt behind walls and scupt my terrain to suit my visions. 
Welcome Aboard 
John


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Each electrical type has it's advantages. Battery makes it easy to do switching, if you can figure out all the wiring stuff for using track power, go right ahead-WAY beyond me! 

On the coal fired live steam, trying to do that down on the ground would be TOUGH, you are always shoveling in coal/etc. . In fact, getting your layout up some really helps old knees out. Just 2-3 landscape blocks high around the edge is nice, 5 or 6 is even bettter, have someone backfill it, then you do the rest.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You have a lot of potential choices coming up. My suggestion is to contact people who have garden railroads in your area and talk to them. They could be members here, or there might be a local club. See what they have done and ask a lot of questions. There is no point in repeating everyone else's mistakes. Keep asking questions here, but see what others have done.

As Gary said, go down to the meet in Pomona and talk to people. Many who attend that meet are very active here on MLS. 


The problem with choosing a power source is that everyone likes what they chose. Only by visiting railroads with different power sources will you be able to see what might be best for you. My choice is primarily track power, analog DC, with two engines set up for battery/RC. Sometime, I would like to go with a live steamer, but my layout is on the ground. There is no one power source that is best for all situations. They all have their pluses and minuses.


Chuck


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I would be sure to visit Live Steamers in action before making the plunge. It may get in your blood, it may not.


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## tonkamo (Sep 19, 2011)

Thank you all for the nice advice. I did plan to have the main depot (Chama) and one of the passing tracks on the ground. Mainly because I want to make that neat landscaping with the small trees etc. Get rid of the lawn. Most of the layout would be elevated a foot or so. Don't want any grades more than 2 percent. Your point is a very good one, to have things more elevated for our tired knees and my painfull back. I only plan to have two trains. The usual D&RGW style passenger and a freight, all Accucraft. I am leaning heavily toward battery power and some kind of radio control system. Don't want to spend too much time cleaning and wireing track. Maybe I should start with that and then, like you said visit live steam before making any purchases. Don't have unlimited funds, just should be able to make things happen over time. This may take some serious thinking. Might take a few loads of dirt to make the effect I would like to see with the track elevated. Kinda like the style we see at the Pomona Fair layout, but not as big. That might be a problem for live steam.
Thanks again,
Keith


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'll assume from your background that you're no stranger to wiring, so if you were to want to do track power outdoors, then figuring out how to do it (DC with blocks, DCC, etc.) wouldn't be that big of an issue. Having said that, if you're familiar with wiring locomotives for DCC, then wiring a loco for battery R/C won't be an issue either, and you can save yourself the trouble of needing to worry about keeping electrons flowing through the rails. Seeing as you're a narrow gauge guy, I'll also make the presumption that you're not looking to routinely doublehead or triplehead locomotives with 50-car trains, which is where track power has a distinct advantage. With "typical" narrow gauge operations--one loco and 5 - 15-car trains, you can get a 5000mAh battery pack easily in the tender of any of the commercially available D&RGW locos and run for anywhere from 4 - 8 hours on that battery pack. 

I went battery power in the mid 80s, and have never for a moment regretted doing so. It just makes railroad design, construction and maintenance all that much simpler when you aren't worried about conductivity. Run your tracks where you want 'em to go, use el-cheapo slip-on rail joiners, and be happy. And if you're building your roster one loco at a time, then the extra $150 - $300 or so per loco for a good control and sound system becomes more affordable when compared to retrofitting a stable of a dozen or so locos you already own. The "track vs. battery" debate is a long one in this hobby, much akin to Ford vs Chevy, Tastes Great vs. Less Filling, etc. There's no right or wrong way; it's a matter of where you want to put your time and energy. Either you spend your time/money re-wiring individual locos and charging batteries, or you spend your time/money on track, rail clamps, and chasing down poor connectors as they arise. 

In terms of live steam, if you're looking to run trains, then shy away from the coal-fired locos. They're cool and you can't beat the smell for realism, but you NEED an elevated track--waist level at least--and you'll be stopping every 5 minutes or so to shovel coal and check the fire. They're an engineer's loco; the appeal being doing the work to maintain the fire, etc. Nothing wrong with that, but there's no just sitting back and watching them tour around the railroad. You can do that with gas-fired locos to an extent, but you will really want some form of R/C control on them if the railroad is on the ground. 

Good luck! 

Later, 

K


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## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Keith and welcome to Fn3 and MLS. I started a garden railroad about 4 years ago and had it running in time for my son's 1st birthday. Then it sat awhile with the busy life of a music teacher. I've got the bug again and just begun a major expansion. You can find my thread in "Track, Trestles, and Roadbed" forum under "Redwood Creek and Tallulah Ridge RR Expansion Project". I started this summer and got the ladder system in place..then the teaching year started and, well, things stopped...but now that the weather is cooling down I'm ready to get started again. 

And, I'm in your back yard here in Reedley. 

I made the decision early in the game to go with battery/RC and have not regretted it. It is so easy to charge the batteries up and then just run the train. The only thing I have to worry about with regards to cleaning the track is making sure I get all of the redwood needles of the rails to avoid a major derailment. 

Best of luck with retirement and the building of your railroad...perhaps I'll run into you at Roys in Clovis... 

Richard


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## tonkamo (Sep 19, 2011)

Wow! I had no idea run time was that high on a 5000 mAh battery (4 to 8 hrs). With my past experiance with batterys in RC plains etc.(many years ago), I would have thought it would be just about 30 minutes to an hour. That is great news. I would be happy with just 2 hours or so. My poor old body doesn't last much longer at a time. )

Hi Richard, I was just thinking about droping by Roy's in Clovis to check the place out. I have never been there. I notice from the Accucraft web site, that he is our local dealer for them. Maybe he can tell me if there is a local club or group. Hopefully you and I will get together for a visit.

I was leaning towards battery power before, but now I am convinced. I guess I will just have to visit the real thing for live steam. Atleast more often. They owe me a cab ride up the hill from here on the Sugar Pine RR.

Yep, Only about 6 to 8 cars on this freight. Bad times for the RR. I have never been a mainline guy. Always been freelance back woods and D&RGW narrow minded. Not too keen on the waist high elevated track. To me, it kinda defeats the purpose and looses the fun scenery part. I like to watch the train going through the scenery. I will have to keep the redwood leaves off the track, since we will be going under a few trees.

Thanks to all for the great advice and welcomings,
Keith


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I was leaning towards battery power before, but now I am convinced 
Keith, 

Welcome to MLS and Fn3. 

All I can add to the good advice is that I have both battery-r/c and live steam locos. As Kevin said, I'd never go back to track power. The difference you'll notice is mental attitude - with track power you are 'running the layout' but with battery-r/c you are the engineer and you work with your loco and train. With live steam, you do even more work with the loco and train. 

Roger has his RGSEast layout over here in MD where I run my battery locos and he runs his D&RGW Ks. There's a few threads with pics of his layout around: 
*RGSEast Open House 1** 

**Fall Run at the RGS East** 
*
*Iron Horse Meets The Real Thing (at the RGS East)*


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Keith,
Since you live in the Fresno area I would highly recommend attending the Southwest Garden Railway show next month in Pomona at the Fairplex. You will have direct contact with people running electric, battery and track power, on the Fairplex layout and live steam at the show plus all the venders. Besides that you will meet lots of MLS members and just have a good time. 
Link to show website. 
http://www.swgrs.com/#/home


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome, Keith.... From the description of your yard, it's a perfect place to build the RR....

As Paul suggested, the SWGRS at the Fairplex on 11/5-6 would be a great place to meet folks. 

The MLS group has been invited to run our trains on the Fairplex layout on Saturday the 5th from 9 ish or so til 4... 

Both battery R/c Power and track power is welcome. Let me know if might have something you'd like to run... [email protected]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Choice between battery, track, or live steam power? 

Live steam will take more attention and time on running the locos. A lot more, especially if you are not just going around in circles. 

Each method has it's pluses and minuses. 

If you have the time and patience for live steam, then that would be the "ultimate" in my opinion. 

If you have less time for set up and "tear down", and mostly want to run trains, then you need to consider live steam may take 1/2 hour of preparation per loco, and another 1/2 hour to drain down and clean up. 

I would make that decision first, but of course you can run live steam and battery and sparkies... you don't have to only choose one. 

When you start having a number of locos, then it helps to sort of standardize on one or the other. 

I chose track power because I have a lot of locos, and don't wish to maintain batteries in each, and I refuse to use a trailing car and have the sound system in a boxcar behind my loco. 

I also like running sound in every loco and run some small locos and rail trucks, where batteries and sound would not fit, or give me radically limited run time. 

There's advantages to battery power also, basically you don't have to spend the money on keeping the rails conductive (although it's not a big a pain as most battery proponents will claim) 

Battery also lets you run your locos on any layout too, if you carry them to other places. 

Regards, Greg


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard and Keith, 

> perhaps I'll run into you at Roys in Clovis... 

As I live in Clovis pick a Saturday and we can all meet at Roy's and talk trains! 

Best, 
TJ


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## tonkamo (Sep 19, 2011)

That sounds like fun. I am available anytime. Just drop me a note whenever you and Rick descide to gather. Roy's will think the big sale is comming when he sees us show up. I just returned home from my first visit at Roy's train shop. That is one of the nicest shops I have seen in many years. Well stocked and good lighting. That amazes me for this poor town of Fresno. Picked up a Garden Railways mag. Well done mag.
Happy Day,
Keith


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Greetings, and welcome to "large scale" railroading! 

I use track power, with Aristocraft's "Revolution" r/c control system. So far I only have a receiver installed in one loco, a kitbashed narrow gauge RS-3. My next project is to install a receiver in my 4-6-0. 

http://youtu.be/9yeiCCiTwQw


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## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey Keith and TJ...it would be great to gather at Roy's to discuss trains sometime in the near future. I was just there this afternoon picking up my first AMS J&S coach...it looks really nice. Now need to save my pennies for the next one. I do hope it will make it around the curves I'm building on my expansion...I think it will...(crossed fingers







).

I've wanted to ride the train at Sugar Pine for some time now...hopefully will make it some day. My wife, son, and I traveled this past Christmas to Jamestown's Railtown 1897 for a ride on their holiday train. Old number 3 the "Movie Train" was recently restored. Met the very nice husband and wife team that was piloting the engine...invited me up to take some pictures and even offered my wife and I to come up sometime and learn how to run the thing...that would be extremely exciting.

Looking forward to your progress as you develop your railroad....

Richard


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## tonkamo (Sep 19, 2011)

Wow Richard, you stay up late.
Maybe next time you make the trip to Roy's, we could gather then. since you will be traveling from the big city of Reedley. Maybe we could visit a layout or two, if you know of any around Fresno/Clovis etc.
I like to visit Jamestown. You must take the roundhouse tour every time. If there are no kids in your tour group, you can inspect most locomotive cabs.
To operate one would be a lifetime experiance for sure. You gotta follow up on that one.

Does the new coach make the curves? I will follow advice and make my tightest radious 10'.

While at Roys yesterday, I talked with an older gent who had rescently changed from N scale to G. That must be a real shock. He was purchasing brass flex track and said he was using track power. Running mainline trains. I did not want to bother him too much and make him think I was a stalker, so I kept to myself mostly. I mentioned these forums and he just looked at me with a blank look of horror. Wow? Me get on a computer? )

Cheers, Keith


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard, Keith:

You won't have any problems with the AMS coach on 10' radius curves. I run mine on my layout with 10' diameter (5'radius) without any problems. In fact I can pull the entire 5 car San Juan set (accucraft) through 10' diameter curves. I did have some trouble with Aristo's 10' diameter sdwitches, but switching to the 18000 series switches by LGB ( about 17' diameter), I havent had any further problems.

Chuck


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard, Keith,

I have three of the AMS J&S coaches and have run them on Russ' elevated layout with 7.5 ft. radius (15 ft. diameter) curves and they do very well. My own railroad I'm building now will have a minimum of 90 inch radius curves and #6 (90 inch radius) Sunset Valley turnouts. You'll be good.


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## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Keith, et al...

Yes, I do have a habit of being up late due to studio work I do in my home after hours from teaching. I create several of the soundtracks for Roger Rocka's Music Hall in Fresno each year...so it can keep me up late at night.

To answer your question the coach does make the curve quite nicely...of course I only have about a 20 foot temporary section laid down in the expansion area. But the curve is representative of what the rest are...with the cooler temps now I can order the fill dirt I need to cover up my ladder system...may even do it this weekend. then I can more permanentaly install the track. I'm comforted by Gary that the coach will negotiate the tighter curve.

Now I just need to get the dimensions of the letter board to Stan so the decals can be created.

Richard


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