# Sharpening tools



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

My questions relate to circular blades and drill bits and wood carving tools.


How do you sharpen them? And, is it even worth the bother?

I noticed that Harbor Freight sells $59 circle blade sharpeners with diamond wheel for diameters 4" up to 15" plus.

Not sure how you would sharpen bits.

I have a stone I use for knives and ax. I also have a bench grinder. Would any of these methods work? I imagine the stone would work for wood carving tools.


I posed these questions on a woodworking forum several days ago and received no response; probably b/c the questions are stupid beginner questions.

Hopefully someone here will indulge me.

Thanks

Dave Vergun


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Dave 

When I was not well behaved my mother would have me sit in my room and have only the dictionary to read. My father did something more productive -he had me sharpen all his wood working tools....

The sharpen a drill requires a device that bolts onto the side of a bench grinder and holds the edge of the twist bit next to the grit wheel. It looks like this!

http://www.axminster.co.uk/pricing/...-21271.htm

This is a modern one -but looks exactly the same as the one I used (and still use). 


To sharpen a saw requires a "saw set" and a file. Once you have filed the edge sharp squeezing the grips on the saw set pushes over the tooth to the correct angle -and then you do the next one.....


A properly set saw cuts like a dream as does a fresh sharp twist drill. As such it is a dying art -and one as teenager that I heartily wished had perished the previous millenium!!!

regards

ralph 


EDIT: sharpening chisels etc is down to the individual use a oil stone and a slip stone are all that is requied


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave

For your drills you might consider the following.

Drill Doctor[/b]


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## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,

If your saw blades aren't abused (just dull) then any local sharpening service can dress them up for you, good as new. It's a heck of a lot easier than doing it yourself, and not too expensive. Check the yellow pages.


If your circular saw blade has carbide tips, you can't sharpen it yourself. If it's not one of the new cheapo "throwaway" blades, then it's definitely money well spent to have it sharpened, vs. buying a new one.

I have a Drill Doctor, and have used it with mixed results; if your bits are just a little dull, it works fine. If they need reshaping before they can be sharpened, take them to the sharpening service, but ask about cost; with high speed steel twist bits, it may be cheaper to buy new than to use the service.

Good luck,

Dawg


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## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

Geez, Ralph... 

Do you really still use a saw set and a file? I should have thought having to do that as a child would have cured you! 

Lemme see, now...I think I still have my Grandfather's saw set around here somewhere... 

(Just kidding, just kidding) 

Dawg


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By dawgnabbit on 14 Oct 2009 04:00 PM 
{snip...}[/i] I have a Drill Doctor, and have used it with mixed results; if your bits are just a little dull, it works fine. If they need reshaping before they can be sharpened, take them to the sharpening service, but ask about cost; with high speed steel twist bits, it may be cheaper to buy new than to use the service.{snip...}[/i]
Hey Steve,

Have you tried 'Drill Doctor's' big brother?

XPS-16[/b]


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 14 Oct 2009 12:23 PM 
My questions relate to circular blades and drill bits and wood carving tools.


How do you sharpen them? And, is it even worth the bother?

/// I have the circular saw tool from HF, all put together, dull blade mounted, but haven't gone any farther. It looks like it'll work just fine--IF you have some insight into what you're doing.

A circular saw has teeth. (DUH.) The HF wheel is a tapered stone towards the edge. The wheel that comes with the saw is a diamond grinder, very thin in cross section. The red/pink stone does the work on coarser toothed blades. If you study the blade, you see that alternate tooths are canted outword the same direction, half to the left, half to the right. Notice the profile of the tooth: it tends to curve rearward (opposite the direction of rotation) to the 'throat' of the next tooth. All you want to do is touch up the very top radius (if any) of that side of the tooth. Look at the throat of the tooth: it has a slight curve sometimes, usually not much, and this is how the swing-arm of the sharpener follows that curve. Now, to throw more crap in the game, there's another angle on the face of the tooth that's probably around 5 degrees off the axis of rotation. This helps give the tooth a slicing motion rather than a chipping effect. None of this is found in the owner's manual, which is a minor crime committed against the buyer. But if you look at the teeth and observe, all you are doing is replacing the original angles and curves to near factory spec. I suggest you do as Ralph suggested and start with a file and rip blade--big teeth, pretty obvious.

The combo blades are no worse, but the shallower teeth don't have a curve, At least the el cheapo ones I own don't.

You can buy a carbide stone to sharpen the carbide blades. There is a color code, and I think GREEN indicates carbide. Better check on that. It's one of those facts that's gone out of my head. You can also do a passable job with a small-diameter round stone like a dremel or a pneumatic polisher stone mounted in a drill press.

As for the 'set' of the teeth, It's rare that one gets knocked off 'set', but if you mount it on the saw and LEAVING THE SAW OFF, turn the blade while holding the end of a steel ruler very close to first one side, then another, you can determine if the teeth are set okay. If not, check around for one of these squeeze hand sawsets, they're cheap, used.

I noticed that Harbor Freight sells $59 circle blade sharpeners with diamond wheel for diameters 4" up to 15" plus.

Not sure how you would sharpen bits.

/// Ralph's method of sharpening bits is probably the most popular. Again, study the profile of the bit--preferably a new one--and essentially, grind yours to match. You can't sharpen the small bits easily,but they're cheap. Under 1/8", I think. Not sure. For me, I've bought every drill bit sharpener that HF sells, and except for one, they're all crap. I think the Drill Doctor might be a good machine. 

I have a stone I use for knives and ax. I also have a bench grinder. Would any of these methods work? I imagine the stone would work for wood carving tools.

/// I use a bench grinder on my axes, hatchets and pocket knife. Then I clean the blades up with a file, and stone the pocket knife. Again, it's simple once you look at the blade and see what kind of angle you want. Practice will make you perfect.


I posed these questions on a woodworking forum several days ago and received no response; probably b/c the questions are stupid beginner questions.

/// That's not unusual. You'd be amazed at how many high-class woodworkers send their tools out to be sharpened and keep quiet about it.

Hopefully someone here will indulge me.

/// I've indulged you, but superficially. There are lots of details, and each has its own crop of devils. There is a tapered stone for sharpening gouges which is nice, it works on wood lathe tools, too.

/// The last issue is, 'Is it worth it?" Only you can answer that, but for me, *definitely* it's worth it! Why? Lots of reasons, economy being one, pride of workmanship being next, and generally being free of people with attitudes who want to take my money, and treat me as an ignorant supplicant while they do, as with my chainsaw chain sharpening tool. I have bought, used and abused German/Swedish wood chisels that I couldn't possibly afford new. Then I make them sharp, and often as not, install a missing handle. Certain brands of modern tools (Stanley) have a good reputation, but they are of the cheapest metal, case-harded just a little way back from the cutting edge, and when that's gone you have to go buy another tool. Plus, the metal treatment makes 'em hard to 'dress'. You'll invest a lot of time, a little money for stones and guides (in the case of wood chisels, or you can skip the guides and make your own. Just how self-sufficient do you want to be? In my case that ranks up there in first place. Be prepared to be frustrated at first. Lots of websites should have sharpening info, and remember, there's more than one way to do a job, despite what you might hear else. And you'll eventually learn that you can put different edges on essentially the same type tool for different work, or to suit your own particular hand.

Les




Thanks

Dave Vergun


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## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

Nawh, Steve, I haven't tried it. Heck, it only has four axes. I'm waiting for at least five! LOL

Dawg


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By ralphbrades on 14 Oct 2009 01:35 PM 
Dave 

When I was not well behaved my mother would have me sit in my room and have only the dictionary to read. My father did something more productive -he had me sharpen all his wood working tools....

The sharpen a drill requires a device that bolts onto the side of a bench grinder and holds the edge of the twist bit next to the grit wheel. It looks like this!

http://www.axminster.co.uk/pricing/...-21271.htm

This is a modern one -but looks exactly the same as the one I used (and still use). 


To sharpen a saw requires a "saw set" and a file. Once you have filed the edge sharp squeezing the grips on the saw set pushes over the tooth to the correct angle -and then you do the next one.....


A properly set saw cuts like a dream as does a fresh sharp twist drill. As such it is a dying art -and one as teenager that I heartily wished had perished the previous millenium!!!

regards

ralph 


EDIT: sharpening chisels etc is down to the individual use a oil stone and a slip stone are all that is requied



Over here General Tools makes the exact same device. To me, it is the best drill sharpener I have come across. I had a Drill Doctor, the better model, and could never get it ot sharpen properly.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 14 Oct 2009 06:06 PM 
Posted By dawgnabbit on 14 Oct 2009 04:00 PM 
{snip...}[/i] I have a Drill Doctor, and have used it with mixed results; if your bits are just a little dull, it works fine. If they need reshaping before they can be sharpened, take them to the sharpening service, but ask about cost; with high speed steel twist bits, it may be cheaper to buy new than to use the service.{snip...}[/i]
Hey Steve,

Have you tried 'Drill Doctor's' big brother?

XPS-16[/b]









Is that the MSRP? Lets see, most MSRP's get discounted about 40%. A bargain at about $20,000.00.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Back in the day, as is said, we would send our hand saws out to get sharpened. There was a very good service in center city Philadelphia. By the way, in our contract with the contractors, there was time allowed for sharpening your own saws on the job. But the contractors would pick up the tab for the sharpening service, probably worked out to be less expensive. The service would also do a good job on circular saw blades. Before carbide we went though quite a few of them. Now I am retired, and I have more hand saws than I know what to do with. Most of them sit, still sharp, in a drawer in my shop. In the past few years I have been using those little "Tool Box" saws. They are quite handy. However, this year I am rediscovering my Disston hand saws. The longer stroke just feels better.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have Drill DR DElux, From when they were still selling it on TV. It has work very well for me. I have even put a new tip on a broken bit. ( It wasn't easy) 
I really like my Drill DR.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Wow, lots of info in here to download. 

I couldn't for some reason open Ralph's link (probably the filter on our server) so I plugged in the words he used to Google and came up with this site: 

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html 

Incidentally, a small story. I grew up in the Bronx in 50s, 60s and recall an elderly gent in a horsedrawn waggon who would ply the streets, banging on metal to alert people to come out to get their knives, scissors and other cutlery sharpened.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

I have had many of my big blades resharpened by a local service. They charge .20 per point and on an 80 point 12" blade that is $16, way cheaper than spending $40 for another blade. 
I had one of the drill doctors and unfortunately it broke. I have found watching at Lowes or others I can buy complete new sets very inexpensive (and not just the cheap sets but decent drill bits). 

Rich


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## COFFEEBREAK (Jul 27, 2009)

You have to have a special sharping machine to do carbide tiped blades usually at a saw shop only 
Furniture machine room I ran a table saw for a long time there> 
Ed


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

For some reason, particle boards in particular seem to chew up my blades. Perhaps they have resin in them or something. 

I'm loathe to spend $60 on a circular blade sharpener and then have to buy replacement sharpener blades that get dull sharpening my circular blades.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By SE18 on 15 Oct 2009 12:53 PM 
For some reason, particle boards in particular seem to chew up my blades. Perhaps they have resin in them or something. 

I'm loathe to spend $60 on a circular blade sharpener and then have to buy replacement sharpener blades that get dull sharpening my circular blades. 
Yes, it does (have resin) - it's what glues all the particles together. It's considered the nastiest thing on cutting tools among the range of materials commonly encountered in the shop, and for that reason is often used as one of the test materials for cutting tool durability tests in the woodworking magazines.

So, are you using steel (non-carbide) circular saw blades on the particle board? If so, you might as well give up on that idea. Carbide is the only practical solution. You can get good carbide-tipped 7-1/4" circular saw blades at a home center for under $20, often far under. Buy a 3-pack, use one for particle board and other nasty stuff, save one for good clean cuts on important stuff, and use the 3rd to replace the first when it gets dull.


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## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

I second Jim's advice--if you're using a steel blade, just get rid of it. A carbide blade makes all the difference! 

Dawg


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks; it is steel and after cutting just three 4X8 boards lengthwise, it's as dull as can be!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By SE18 on 15 Oct 2009 05:43 AM 
Wow, lots of info in here to download. 

I couldn't for some reason open Ralph's link (probably the filter on our server) so I plugged in the words he used to Google and came up with this site: 

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html 

Incidentally, a small story. I grew up in the Bronx in 50s, 60s and recall an elderly gent in a horsedrawn waggon who would ply the streets, banging on metal to alert people to come out to get their knives, scissors and other cutlery sharpened.



I was raised on the south side of Chicago in the 50's in Blue Island. I remember a man coming around with a cart. I remember big wooden wheels like off of a Conastoga Wagon. There were Handles from a Wheelbarow. He would place a board on the handles and operate a pedal that turned another wheel like from a Spinning wheel. It would drive the grinding stone. He would sharped everything for people. HIs wagon had two bells that would chime as he pushed it down the sidewalk.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking at your comment _"cutting just three 4X8 boards lengthwise."_

If you're talking about cutting three particle boards (MDF) then there is no difference in cutting across the short dimension or parallel to the long dimension.

However, if you're speaking of cutting natural wood (as opposed to manufactured), then there is a difference and requires two different type saw blades (i.e. cross-cut & rip). Each has a specific design to address the specific type of cutting requirements. Cross-cut blades are designed to cut across the grain, and rip blades are designed to cut with the grain. Using the wrong blade type for type of cut you're doing can dull the blade quickly. Yes there is a so called 'combination' blade that is designed to cut in both directions, but is a compromise and doesn't provide really good finish cuts.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

If he's cutting plywood, which I suspect he is due to the 4x8 size, grain doesn't matter since the grain of the layers is oriented cross-ways for additional strength. So while he's ripping some layers, he's crosscutting others. 

I bought a "finishing blade" for my DeWalt table saw and couldn't be happier. It makes nice smooth cuts and creates no splintering on the edges, even when cutting plywood.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bob,

I doubt you'll have to buy many replacement stones for the saw sharpener. If you go ahead, *don't* buy it unless you get an extra-cost pack of sharpening stones, because the one mine came with was the thin diamond one, not suitable for bigger teeth. The replacement pack comes with the pink tapered stone I've already described.

I'd like to suggest again that you start with a file on a dull rip blade (bigger teeth). That HF sharpener is not something I'd want to recommend for someone getting started. For one thing, the manual is so lousy that I needed the pic on the box to put it together. But once together, it seems to have all the necessary angle adjustments a person would need. There's a a how-to-sharpen-a-blade section in the manual, but it suffered badly in translation and looks like it was written by someone who never saw the machine or a sawblade.

My son's getting married tomorrow, as soon as the uproar's over I'll post some pixes on mine to give you a better idea.

Les


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## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

_Yes there is a so called 'combination' blade that is designed to cut in both directions, but is a compromise and doesn't provide really good finish cuts._

Steve,

Swapping blades every time you change direction of cut gets real old real fast. Have you looked at the Forrest Woodworker II blade? It cuts beautifully (no splintering or chipout) on solid wood, whether crosscuts or rips. Ditto for plywood, particle board, MDF...you name it. Even Melamine. Not plexiglass or acrylic, though.



It's a pricey blade, but for me, well worth it.

Dawg


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## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

Drill bits can be sharpened by hand and the technique was tought to me in machinist class at the Merchant Marine Academy. It is common practice to make and sharpen lathe and shaper tool bits from high speed steel. The thing that this thread has failed to mention is to keep the steel from over heating. The method I use for this is bare hands. You will remember to cool the steel if your hands get hot. 

Carbide can also be sharpned but a silicon carbide grinding wheel is needed and it is more difficult so I rarely bother with carbide tooling because of the extra work. 

The method to sharpen a drill bit just uses your hands to make the same motion as the grinder attachment already posted. It is one of those things that is easy to show but not easy to explain. 
Dan


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I picked up some more information from this site: 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx 

apparently, you should drill slow thru hard steel (like stainless, per the 1st reply on that post). If you drill too fast, the work becomes "work hardened." 

Also, I may try my hand at filing circular blades. I'm thinking I better use an old file as a new one will quickly become unserviceable for other tasks as you are filing steel on steel. 

Also, I picked up a clock repair manual over the weekend and it says not to throw old files away. It recommends placing the files in hot coals until the file turns cherry red and then leaving it in the embers to cool slowly. It states that this is the optimum way to anneal steel and once annealed, it can be be made into small tools and special cutters (like for those used with lathes). I believe the means for strengthening the steel (after annealing) is to either strike it or roll it. Also, it recommends cleaning files with benzine and scraping with the edge of a sheet of brass. My files are continually getting clogged. 

Sorry for taking my thread off track. The book is Watch and Clock Making and Repairing by W.J. Gazeley. I'm working on a novel and needed some info for that book.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

SE wrote:

Also, I may try my hand at filing circular blades. I'm thinking I better use an old file as a new one will quickly become unserviceable for other tasks as you are filing steel on steel. 


No, you're definitely better off with a new file. Files are made to work steel & other metals, they wear out over time and you replace them. An old file will just frustrate you. Also, get a 'file card' it looks like a short-toothed currycomb or wire brush with short stiff wire teeth and a footprint about the size of a 3x5 card. The better ones have a pick in a holder so you can 'pick' the hard chunks from between the teeth. The card is used to clear chips from the file's teeth.

About the annealing: stay away from benzine, it's been labelled a carcinogin, to the best of my memory. Check on it, at least. Also, I never had any luck as a blacksmith trying to 'draw' the temper out of a file to make it into something else. What research I can remember doing indicated that modern files have a different metallurgy than the oldtime ones. Again, check this fact out. To put a hardness back in steel, you heat it red hot, then quench it in water, oil --there are probably a thousand receipes for the 'best' quenching fluid, most I look on as useless frillery or just plain nasty. I use plain old motor oil, about three gallons worth, because if you're doing a lot of that, the oil will warm and the quench won't be so good. Now, after you quench, you've got a hard, brittle piece of steel, so in many cases you want to 'draw' that hardness (temper), so you carefully heat the item, watching the colors at the thinnest part go up through straw color, I think. Check that, mind's not toos sharp this morning. If you go to blue, you've overdone it and have to repeat the process. Much ado is expended on the annealling/drawing process. In my experience, drawing the temper is not such a need, though shouts of "It'll shatter and blind you, wound your dog and put a chip in your windshield!!! Ahhh!" will assail you if you say that out loud. The truth is, with the variable grades of steel available today, don't bother with drawing temper. I never do on my cold chisels, and they dull just as fast as the drawn ones.

The hammering of steel, especially damascus, is like on this board akin to "Is LGB really dead?" The orginal purpose of hammering pig iron was to get the carbon out of it so it'd hold an edge or not crack and break. Then someone devised a method of 'packing' carbon into steel (pre-hammered) folding it, and hammering it to get a uniform crystal structure. Not only for damascus, but for 'hardening' cutting tools. You can buy packets of something to hammer into your steel and it is claimed (especially by those who pay the price for it) to be superior

Bet that's a lot more than you wanted to know. I used to teach basic blacksmithing to beginners.

Les


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

I knew it, should've clicked the 'Cancel' button instead of 'Submit.'









No Steve I haven't tried the Forrest saw blade, while not really a combination blade what I currently have is the Freud 40-Tooth Hi-ATB 10", but I'll see about trying out your suggestion.


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