# OK, DCS gurus, need a bit of help.



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, went to help a friend today, had problems with controlling his challenger.

I had 2 TIAs and 2 remotes.

We determined that one remote has something wrong in the radio, it cannot hear or transmit. Don't know which, but it's clear it's bad.


So tried challenger #1 with both TIAs and the working remote. Running DC and fixed output #1.


For a short time the loco just ran whenever the power was applied to the TIA.


I quickly learned that TIAs can be numbered from 1 to 5 and that the "number" is not in the tia, but basically in the remote.

So (*working one at a time*) determined that one TIA was #1 and the other #3... ok, changed #3 to #1 just for simplicity.


Also turned off variable 1, 2, and fixed 2... 

Somewhere along the line, the locomotive stopped running by itself, and behaved properly.


OK we were done... buddy #2 went home with his challenger, his tia, and his non-working remote.

Buddy #1 just called... the loco is running on "cruise control" again, his challenger, which I forgot to check out before I left...duh...;


Everything looks right on the TIA side, but the loco is running whenever power is applied to the TIA and no locos are found by the remote.

*It's like the loco is in a world of it's own, and is deaf.*


I know it's something simple, since I cleared this when I was there..

Ideas?


Regards, Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Greg, it's a little hard to follow the story. I'm getting lost on a couple of points that don't really matter(buddy #1, #2).
The TIU ( not TIA) is a track interface unit. It sends out the dcs signal. If the engine does not see the signal at start up, it starts in conventional mode and runs as the throttle is turned up or down. So lets start at the begginning. The TIU should recieve its power either througth fixed #1 input or aux power input. The TIU must be powered up first or at least at the same time. The engine is not seeing the watchdog signal for some reason. Why did you "Also turned off variable 1, 2, and fixed 2... " ?Just use the in and out on fixed #1 and make sure the DCS signal has not also been turned off to fixed #1. The two tius can remain as they were numbered and I wonder why you changed them both to #1s. Don't think that the tiu needs to be changed. You are right that they can run five and there is super mode for running even more.
I suggest you start with a single piece of track with the tiu (one for now) wired up as a test track. This is always recommended practice for adding engines and service work. Once we get it working there we can tune the layout for signal strength. If the test rig won't fire up we need to check fuses. The TIU has internal fusing to protect it. I am new to this system too and there are others that are more qualified that we can talk to but lets get figured out whats working first and what is broken. I've learned alot trouble shooting my expanding layout, Joe


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for replying Joe... sorry I did not tell the story well, it has been a tough couple of days personally. Not all my brains are in one place.

Buddy 1 and 2 should have been made clearer.... was buddy 1's house, testing buddy 2's challenger... got it all set up and working and found out #2 had bad remote...

Did not check that buddy 1's challenger was still working right when I left... now it runs by itself.



The TIU ( not TIA) is a track interface unit. It sends out the dcs signal.
Sorry, spazzout...


If the engine does not see the signal at start up, it starts in conventional mode and runs as the throttle is turned up or down
OK, that helps a lot



The TIU should recieve its power either througth fixed #1 input or aux power input. 
Using fixed #1 


The TIU must be powered up first or at least at the same time.
Same time, will try first, but seems same results.


The engine is not seeing the watchdog signal for some reason. Why did you "Also turned off variable 1, 2, and fixed 2... " ?
In case it made any difference... it did not


Just use the in and out on fixed #1 and make sure the DCS signal has not also been turned off to fixed #1.
Yes, verified this


The two tius can remain as they were numbered and I wonder why you changed them both to #1s.
They are owned by 2 different people, but they are friends, easier for them to have both setups the same, *the TIU's were never on at the same time*, and always in different houses


I suggest you start with a single piece of track with the tiu (one for now) wired up as a test track.
This is what I did, and I had buddy #2's TIU and his loco working fine, also #1 TIU and remote... just forgot to check buddy #1's challenger before I left


Thanks Joe, it's something small, and it happened to me while I was there, but I corrected it, but never checked other challenger which is now acting funny... 

Regards, Greg


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

There were probably more than one issue as to why things did not go as you wanted. 
The one remote that "didn't" work almost certainly does. The problem is that if the TIU is set to #3, the remote must be also. Sounds like you tried to get remote #1 to talk to TIU #3. (which it will not on start up) You can tell which number the TIU is set to by watching it power up. The red light will flash a number of times equal to its setting. (so here one flashed once, the other 3 times) 

Reset the TIU and remote for both systems. Add the TIU and engine back. If you still think the remote is bad, connect a phone cord between the TIU and the remote. And replace the batteries, or at least check to ensure they are tightly in the remote. It is not uncommon for them to move inside the remote if the remote is handly roughly. That can effect the range too. 

Next time you start up the system, turn the TIU on first. It really does matter. Than the remote. Then push the read button on the bottom left of the remote. If the remote does not say (1) TIU found and (0) AIU found - you have the TIU and or remote set to different configurations. (if you have it set up correctly, it will also find the MTH engines on the track and bring them up to active engne list) 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks John

The one remote that "didn't" work almost certainly does.
Not sure this is true, but read on.


The problem is that if the TIU is set to #3, the remote must be also. 
Understand, that is why I added TIU's 1-5, and then did a read, the working remote ALWAYS found a TIU, the non working one NEVER found one (did not have the remotes on at the same time) 



Reset the TIU and remote for both systems.
Did that 


Add the TIU and engine back.
Added all TIU's and did a read. The working systems found one loco, the non working remote did not find anything 


If you still think the remote is bad, connect a phone cord between the TIU and the remote. And replace the batteries, or at least check to ensure they are tightly in the remote. It is not uncommon for them to move inside the remote if the remote is handly roughly. That can effect the range too. 

Did all that, and working remote kept working and non working one still did not work 


Next time you start up the system, turn the TIU on first. It really does matter. Than the remote.
Will follow that procedure from now on


Then push the read button on the bottom left of the remote. If the remote does not say (1) TIU found and (0) AIU found - you have the TIU and or remote set to different configurations. (if you have it set up correctly, it will also find the MTH engines on the track and bring them up to active engne list) 
Yes, so thank you, you have confirmed what I have found, and I will remember to do the proper turn on sequence


But, as explained in the previous post, *the problem now is that I cannot find the loco, and it runs as soon as the TIU is turned on.*
All TIU addresses are enabled, and the read button finds the tiu, but no loco.

*When this happened earlier in the day, I could not read the loco either... like it's in some deaf mode...*

Now, only buddy#1's stuff is at his house, a remote that worked on both TIUs, his TIU that worked earlier in the day, and hiis loco WHICH WE NEVER TRIED.... (we used buddy #2's loco)


Regards, Greg 






John


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02/15/2009 7:57 PM
OK, went to help a friend today, had problems with controlling his challenger.

I had 2 TIAs and 2 remotes.

We determined that one remote has something wrong in the radio, it cannot hear or transmit. Don't know which, but it's clear it's bad.


So tried challenger #1 with both TIAs and the working remote. Running DC and fixed output #1.


For a short time the loco just ran whenever the power was applied to the TIA.


I quickly learned that TIAs can be numbered from 1 to 5 and that the "number" is not in the tia, but basically in the remote.

So (working one at a time) determined that one TIA was #1 and the other #3... ok, changed #3 to #1 just for simplicity.


Also turned off variable 1, 2, and fixed 2... 

Somewhere along the line, the locomotive stopped running by itself, and behaved properly.


OK we were done... buddy #2 went home with his challenger, his tia, and his non-working remote.

Buddy #1 just called... the loco is running on "cruise control" again, his challenger, which I forgot to check out before I left...duh...;


Everything looks right on the TIA side, but the loco is running whenever power is applied to the TIA and no locos are found by the remote.

It's like the loco is in a world of it's own, and is deaf.


I know it's something simple, since I cleared this when I was there..

Ideas?


Regards, Greg 




Lucky I just saw this post, I haven't had time to read other threads the last week or so. Greg, I just saw your email too, sorry it was burried in my inbox. I'll reply more later once I've fully read everything and the replies. (probably later today)


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Real quick, there is one issue that I see is it sounds like you changed the TIU addresses from TIU 1 & 3 to both TIU 1. If he is using both TIUs at the same time (ie. has them both powered up for use) then everything would have went downhill from there as you will have all kinds of problems with both now set to the same TIU address. Each TIU needs to be assigned its own address like he had them.

As far as turning the other ports on or off, turn them back on. If he isn't using Fixed 2 on either TIU I don't know why he's using two TIUs. Why is he using mulitple TIUs? (I can power my entire 700ft layout with 1 TIU and do it in passive mode so I have unlimited amperage) How big is his layout? Is he using brass or stainless rail? 

One issue with buddy #2's remote could have been software, users will want to have their TIU and remote software. Buddy #2's remote also probably didn't have both TIUs added in to it. When you start using more than 1 TIU that can cause some confusion. 

This is going to take some time to fully reply to and will work on it later.

I just sent a reply to your email, I actually wouldn't mind calling your friend to help him directly and to be honest, it would probably be much easier if I did. We really need to have the equipment there when we're stepping through this. Let me know. Does he have internet access?

Will reply more later.


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok just saw where you said you guys didn't have them powered up at the same time. I'll reply more when I have had time to fully read everything. 


Raymond


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Two guys each have a tiu, a remote and a challenger. Buddy #1 and buddy #2. 

Both of them are over buddy #1's house... buddy #2 has been having difficulties. So we will call everything TIU 1, TIU 2 , challenger 1, challenger 2, etc. 

After resetting things, I determine, TIU 1 works, TIU 2 works, remote 1 works, remote 2 does not work, challenger 2 works. 

Buddy 2 goes home... 

I go home... 

Buddy 1 (still at home) tries TIU 1 the next day, for some reason now it does not connect, not found with read button. Worked the day before. 

TIU 1 and 2 never on at same time. (I have mentioned this before, I went back to the previous posts and put some things in *BOLD*) 

I turned the other ports on and off to see if any difference, none... He is using fixed #1 on input and output. 

So what is the condition where the loco just runs on the fixed output, and is never found... I think the situation where he could not hook up with his TIU is a temporary thing, told him several times to check batteries, they were ok yesterday, but today they are down to 1.3 volt each, so he will get new ones. 

The big questions are: 

1. what are the conditions that a loco just starts running on the fixed 1 output 
2. when it's in this mode, it cannot be "Found"... does this help indicate what is wrong. 

Regards, Greg


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

THE condition when the locomotive starts up on its own is the polarity is wrong. Next time turn the engine around to see if the TIU finds it. It does matter how the transformer outputs are connected to the TIU, and how the TIU is connected to the track. For example, if you have the TIU to track connection backwards, you can not get it to work by reversing the polarity at the transformer. (at least it doesn't work for me) 

My original Challenger has a polarity switch under the smoke box cover. One of the two engines might well have the switch in the wrong position. But lets repeat here. It it always the wrong polarity (somewhere) when the engine starts up on its own. In this case, you should see the power come up, and 5 seconds or so later the engine starts off (full sound and smoke). That 5 seconds is the time the DCS board uses to try to find a signal - which when it doesn't - it shifts to analog mode and just starts down the track. 

As to the remote, if you replaced the batteries with brand new ones, and reset the remote to match the TIU, it should work. You can check inside the remote to see if the antenna wire is loose, which can happen if you open it up without being careful. Its hard to imagine it is broken, as it should never have worked at all if it is a bad board, there isn't enough amps to fry anything and it worked when he got it right? By the way, when you connected the remote with the phone cord, did the display change to show a (T) after the DCS version number in the banner? If so, the TIU knew the remote was there. It does not mean the remote can control the TIU.

One other thing to check. DCS version 2.0 is not compatible with 3.0 (they store information in different places) and neither works with 4.0. So you have to make sure the operating systems are the same, for both TIUs and remotes. Its a free download, so update the broken remote and TIU to the latest and greatest, 4.01. 

That alone might fix the remote. It might just have a bad software line in the memory.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks John, I was not aware DCS was polarity sensitive (but how do you put a loco on the track in the other direction?) 

I will try that today and report back. 

Both remotes upgraded to 4.01 and both were working, but had not been used for a while. I personally inspected the batteries in the non-working remote. When doing operations it would sometimess flash something about no RF. 

Thanks again, Greg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Will reply more later but, I agree with John, the polarity is usually THE number one reason you will have issues like this. It needs to be correct from the PS to TIU and the TIU to the engine. My Challenger does not have a polarity switch so his may not either. If he is powering with a DC power supply confirm the TIU to engine polarity is correct by listening to the relay clicks in the engine. Two clicks indicates correct polarity.

I have heard of folks who have had polarity backwards be able to intermittantly add or control their engine. I've never been able to with the polarity wrong.

Need to confirm the TIU software load as well. 

Another issue is he has 4.01, he needs to upgrade to 4.10. The 4.01 was buggy with regards to adding and starting up engines. It also matters if the last upgrade was from v2.xx to v4.xx or v3.xx to v4.xx. Upgrade to 4.10 before you go any further. Be sure to use the DCS loader software version 2.0 to do it. 

How many engines does he own? After upgrading I would delete the Challenger and readd it. 

My question from before was what type of track is he using and how many feet is his layout?


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Also if you are actually able to go over there today, feel free to call me when you get there. It will be helpful to have the equipment there in front of you.


Raymond


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Gerg - usually, you reverse the engine by picking it up and turning it around. That seems to work consistently. 
I'm sure it will work once you get on the phone with Raymond. If the engine runs without the DCS (which it does, since it runs and you can't control it) then it will run with it. 
I have had my system since the day MTH came out with a hudson. (eight years? I don't know, but it was a long time ago) Every once in a while I have to clean the track to get the signal strength strong enough to start up the locomotives. And if you have the polarity correct then that is the first thing to check. 

But that is not the issue here, since one engine works and one does not. Load the latest software and reset the TIU/remotes. Check the polarity again. 
Play with trains. 
Eventually you will sell all your old DCC systems, as you will tire of using bear skins and stone knives and learn to use DCS to operate your RR. 

Heck, you might even have an Aristo product someday. (ok, that is going too far and isn't going to happen)


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

In addition to the other questions I asked: 

With the person have issues - 

- So in the remote you currently have TIU addresses added for 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5? _(Quote: Understand, that is why I added TIU's 1-5, and then did a read, the working remote ALWAYS found a TIU, the non working one NEVER found one (did not have the remotes on at the same time) _ - (_Quote: I quickly learned that TIAs can be numbered from 1 to 5 and that the "number" is not in the tia, but basically in the remote.)_ - No this is not correct, the TIU has a number in it not just the remote.

- What is the address of the TIU and how did you confirm that?
- After the engine has been sitting a while and with the power off (and I would take the engine off the track), take a voltmeter and carefully probe the battery recharge terminals in the smoke box. What voltage reading do you get? (you may need to wait a while before you check to get an accurate baseline reading.) I'd wait overnight probably, but your call.
- Where in relation to the main power leads to the track is the engine? Is it right on the the main power leads?
- what type power supply and brand is he using? and what voltage level is being applied to the track?
- When did this problem occur for Buddy#1? Was he going along just fine until this troubleshoot session? It sounds like Buddy #2 was the one originally with the problem and now Buddy #1 has issues.
- 1.3v is low but it will work ok. The remote will tell you when to replace the batteries. 

The polarity issue is for sure the first and foremost thing to get right, nothing else works until you do. At this point I agree with what Joe and John have said and the recommendation to reset the TIU and remote. I would go the extra step and reset them both then do the software upgrade to v4.10. (v4.00, 4.01, 4.02a all had bugs) 

- on the possible bad remote, MTH has a warning message on their new DCS loader 2.0 program that if you plug the remote into the AIU plug on the TIU then you could damage the remote. I've made that mistake before and it never hurt it but... If buddy #2 or someone else did an upgrade on his TIU and remote this is a possibility.


Raymond


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, one problem was the track polarity. The test stand used on the first day for buddy #2 and his loco may have been wired differently when buddy #1 went to use his loco. Also, loco #1 may have had it's polarity switch set the wrong way. 

The other thing revealed was that buddy #1 actually had TWO TIUs and the one NOT working is the one we never saw or tried on the first day. So everything that worked when I left still worked. 

So now we have a TIU that works and one that does not, a working remote and a working challenger for buddy #1. Buddy #2 is sending his remote in for repair since we determined it was defective, radio wise. 

The interesting thing now is buddy #1 says he can "add" the "Good" TIU and everything is fine... then he changes it's address to 5... then he powers the second TIU and sometimes he can link it up, but sometimes it unlinks the first TIU. I suspect there may be some cockpit error, but we now know the polarity issues and the "cruise controll" reason. 

John, I have lots of Aristo products, everything they make for my era I have at least one of. Aristo and USAT are the reasons I am in the hobby. But change to DCS? That's a step backwards for me, less capability and some eccentricities (like having to have a polarity switch on a loco) I just don't like. 

It's a nice system, with superb motor control and the sound and smoke system implementation is probably the best in the world, but there's a lot of things it cannot do that I want to do. 

Raymond: 

I think the way the TIU addressing works is that each TIU has a "Real" address we do not see. When the remote sees it, you can "assign" it to TIU 1-5. BUT that number is not the "real" address of the TIU, since a different remote can have a different number for the SAME TIU. It sure seemed this way when I was there... but maybe because I had a flakey remote, this is my misinterpretation. 

I asked my friend if he could see a light blink on the TIU to tell it's address, he only saw a led that was on all the time. If you can tell me where it is, that would help. 

Checking the recharge terminals, ahh, will have to find these, I suppose this battery retains settings and a bad one can cause erratic operation. I will look in the smokebox. 

Nice power supply, regulated DC... will check voltage level. 
New batteries in remote now.. 

I think the version is indeed 4.10 not 4.01, was not holding remote. 

They DID plug the remote into the AIU plug the first time, but it was after the remote acted up, and they plugged the working remote into it also, and it is still working. It was not left that way a long time, because, the screen blanked or froze, so I said something was wrong... that's when they discovered it was the wrong RJ12 port!! 

Thanks for all your help, it would be great to be able to tell what number a TIU was set to without trying to find it with a remote, and also to know if there is a manual reset for the TIU that does not need the remote. 

Regards, Greg


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

there is only one red LED that you can see from the top of the TIU. It will flash when power is turned on (within a few seconds of power up) a number of times equal to which number the TIU is set on. That is how you check. Once the system is up and running, it does not flash anymore. 

Why do you want TIU to be set to 5? (as opposed to say, 1) Is there some reason? I suspect this is a root cause of the issue. Somewhere in the transfer from TIU set to comm 1 to comm 5 a link is not connected.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh... buddy #1 has 2 TIUs and wants them to be set to addresses that are "safe", so when buddy #2 shows up with his TIU, there is no address conflict. 

You may indeed be right that the system "wants" a #1 somewhere, or something is getting reset. I need to go over there and try that out. I will definitely check out the LED myself, since he says it does not blink at all after powerup. 

Thanks for all the help, your tip on polarity was a fundamental issue. 

Regards, Greg


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Not to confuse the issue, but the TIUs can also be set in " super TIU " mode. Both TIUs would then use the same address. Each TIU then controls separate blocks of the track. Everything else is the same. The locos can move seemlessly from one TIU control to the other without loss of command. 

You didn't mention what the track is like, but that might also be a solution.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, the second TIU is for testing only apparently, the entire layout is a single power block. I'll double check. Sounds like a good solution when running multiple locos. 

Thanks, Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Greg and everyone, I've just been following along. Great advice about polarity. Older engines did not have a switch so I forget to mention this because one would just follow the directions on polarity. I would just like to add that I have over 400' of stainless track all on one TIU channel. TIUs have four channels each! So I wonder why the need for more TIUs? Just remember to hook up a single track and load only one engine with the rest of layout turned off.
Large layouts get divided up into reasonable size blocks but can be on the very same TIU channel. Light bulbs are used to soak up unwanted signal "bouncing" (reflections). One connection per block. roughly 75' of track or less. Switches can be problem areas and may need additional connections. Always try to not have the signal duplicate itself from the same source. There are some rules and more oddities that can show up on certain layouts and not others. OGR forum members are working on guidlines to test for impedance of each layout and maybe going towards resistors of different values to correct it. Joe


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

One more tidbit. For those that may be thinking to steer clear of all this tech stuff about DCS, many users have just hooked it up with two wires and it works fine. Complex layouts with more wiring is where it gets a little more involved. The real plus of this system is how easy it is to use. With no training people can pick up the remote and understand what the buttons do. No major programming needed. 
Another plus and the biggest for me is the system is constantly upgraded for free with new downloads. I have an old DCC system that just sits on the shelf and is outdated. I have a second DCC system that is too complex for me to remember all the cv mapping stuff. So now I just run DCS. Thanks, Joe


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Enginear on 02/18/2009 7:33 PM
One more tidbit. For those that may be thinking to steer clear of all this tech stuff about DCS, many users have just hooked it up with two wires and it works fine. Complex layouts with more wiring is where it gets a little more involved. The real plus of this system is how easy it is to use. With no training people can pick up the remote and understand what the buttons do. No major programming needed. 
Another plus and the biggest for me is the system is constantly upgraded for free with new downloads. I have an old DCC system that just sits on the shelf and is outdated. I have a second DCC system that is too complex for me to remember all the cv mapping stuff. So now I just run DCS. Thanks, Joe



















Joe, 

OK.... I have spent MONTHs researching the differences between DCC and DCS to reach this conclusion. This based on reading the literature and comparing on a spreadsheet.... (paper format)... 


Now your comments based on REAL experience... wow... 

*You make me feel good* in my decision and I thank you for coming out of the woodwork to make your statement. 


Not that DCC is bad... do not get me wrong here, however there is room for both DCC and DCS. ( I want to run a parallel DCC system as time moves on so that I can learn ) 


It is up to the user. Simple as that. Guys who want to dive into the electronics and Guy who want to dive into the "plug'n play" enjoyment of the hobby. 


As Greg put it..... MAC Vs PC in the computer world. Please note that both technologies thrive in today's world... 


I rest my case. 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I started this thread to help solve some DCS problems and I don't want it to descend into a DCS vs DCC. 

I will say this to Will's response: 

The problem I was having was not tech stuff, but simple stuff and basic stuff that people have to go through when using DCS, you HAVE to connect to a TIU, and you HAVE to "discover" a locomotive. 

Both of these things were difficult to accomplish and difficult to determine what was wrong for a neophyte (me). 

Also, in this case DCC is much simpler, you never have to "discover" a locomotive, since you assign a unique address to it and the address "Sticks". 

Also, you do not need to "add" a command station (TIU equivalent) in DCC, at least in wired situations. 

Finally the real thing I think is very weird, is that you have to MANUALLY set the polarity of the locomotive with a SWITCH on it if you put it on the track the WRONG way. That is plenty weird. To top it off, when placed on the track in the wrong polarity, the loco TAKES OFF by itself! 

None of these things are earth shaking, and there are many positive and unique features to DCS, but it is NOT without it's faults and eccentricities. 

So, let's not get into a "whose is better war"... if you want to compare these feature for feature, please start a new thread. I still have issues in debugging the systems I started the thread for, and I would appreciate being able to continue debugging the current problems. 

To wit: 

One TIU refuses to hook up to anything. It flashes address 1, but can never be "found"... is there any other reset capability? 

The other system still has a "dead" remote. When I hooked a phone cable to it, it acted somewhat different but still did not function. Any insight on this? 

Thanks in advance to all the great help I am getting. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yo Greg, 

I received my Remote and TIU kit tonight and on review of the IMI's I think that you should try to get a copy from someone... Good info and should answer some of your questions. 

Regards, 

gg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

to All using MTH DCS, please read the MTH info on this site: http://www.protosound2.com/
The tips page shows wiring for three rail but most applies to two rail (polarity becomes an issue).
Now understand that the future MTH boards that will be DCC compatable will not have a polarity problem (I believe). Greg, not to argue but so people understand, You program an address with DCC, You add an engine to DCS and then can change parameters like the name if desired just like DCC. DCS is two way communication so the engines talks back to the remote (see the patent info on the link page) Joe


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Enginear on 02/19/2009 8:11 PM
to All using MTH DCS, please read the MTH info on this site: http://www.protosound2.com/
The tips page shows wiring for three rail but most applies to two rail (polarity becomes an issue).
Now understand that the future MTH boards that will be DCC compatable will not have a polarity problem (I believe). Greg, not to argue but so people understand, You program an address with DCC, You add an engine to DCS and then can change parameters like the name if desired just like DCC. DCS is two way communication so the engines talks back to the remote (see the patent info on the link page) Joe
















Thanks for the "three rail" tip Joe... I was trying to digest this bit of info in the IMI when I read you tidbit here... 

Man.... are the features sweet on this baby.. The rest of the IMI is pure logic when one reads it. 


gg 

PS: DCS is like advanced protocol in the industrial arena ... where signals go out to the device, get registered, acted upon and then feedback is fed back to the controller. I will need to check this with my Controls division in my Company.... But I think that I am correct on this one. This is why DCS can check power levels at what ever part of the track the loco is on.... feedback .... Greg, don't be shy to use this feature in your diagnostics.


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

I am sooooooooo glad to see this problem poted here and resolved here. I always have the same problem with my Annie w/DCS after a train show. Usually at the train show ( Ray is there too), we have a problem getting my Annie running then after playing with it, everything is fine. Then, when I get back home and set it all up again, the same way it was at the show ( this is usually about 3 or 4 days later), I have the same probelm as Greg and his buddies had. I just play with the system until it straightens itself out. Checking polarity, connections, looking in the DCS book to make sure everything is set up properly. 

This is the only thing about the DCS system that really p**** me off, but I really like the system and what it can do. 

Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Good deal Cliff, the intent of my web site and asking these questions publicly is to share the knowledge. 

I have a preliminary DCS page on my site and will be filling it out soon. 

After all the other posts, I will ask my questions again: 


One TIU refuses to hook up to anything. It flashes address 1, but can never be "found"... is there any other reset capability? 

The other system still has a "dead" remote. When I hooked a phone cable to it, it acted somewhat different but still did not function. Any insight on this? 



Regards, Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Greg, The only way I know of to reset the tiu is through the remote, so I posted your question and this post on the OGR forum under DCS: http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/93360682/m/77110188
There must be a communication problem with the tiu's board, what version of dcs is in each unit, they must be the same. Joe
here's a reply:It's going to be hard to reset the tiu if you can't find it, Try another remote.

Try resetting the remote, again this will remove everything, engines ,switches but leave the remote with tiu 1 added. maybe it'll now find the tiu, try it tethered to the tiu also.

I don't think re-loading the tiu software will be of much help but who knows until you try it if you're out of options. Is this a TIU or remote problem ? It's hard to tell unless you have something to compare it with.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So far, seems to be TIU problem, have one definitely working remote and one working TIU and one not "hooking up" wireless or wired. 

I will have to go visit my friend, he may be having some kind of cockpit error. 

The other friend apparently has a dead remote, won't connect to anything at all, and we have 2 working TIUs and another working remote. 

Thanks, 

Greg


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
Please make sure the batteries are fresh in the remote ( new ), just to be sure they are workig and installed properly. Make sure that you have 18-24-volts DC apllied to the TIU or the proper AC voltage ( I haven't messed with the AC side of it yet), Then, make sure that you have just ONE TIU on and ONE remote. Be fore you turn on power to the TIU make sure that the polarity of the wires are correct. If they are backwards, then you will definately have a problem. You can check for proper polarity by using a Volt/Ohm meter. 
Try this and see what happens. 
Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Cliff, umm... if you read the earlier parts of the thread... did all of that... 

The revelations were that track polarity is important for locos, the led blinks the address, and to power the TIU before the remote (not completely proven to me in my mind yet) 

I was thinking of making a little polarity tester with a bicolor led, but then the problem of how people have set their polarity switch gets in the way. 

The best advice is have a clear track 10 feet either side of the loco and see what happens! 

Regards, Greg


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg - with a loco on the track, when you turn on the power you will hear two clicks. If you do not, then expect the engine to start up on its own and move. If you do hear the two clicks in the engine AND the loco still moves on its own get a new friend. 
Ok, just kidding. The clicking is the solenoids on the DCS and will indicate whether the signal is reaching the locomotive. 
(before we begin our initial conditions are DCS 4.1+ installed in both TIU and all remotes) 
the very first thing to try if the engine starts up on its on is to turn the engine around 180 degrees. I previously recommened your fingers as the simplest way to do that. You have not stated that you did this yet. However I will assume you did. Since one of the TIUs and locomotives worked in command mode, did you then change remotes to see if the remote worked with operating TIU/locomotive? You did not comfirm that yet either but I will also assume you did because you said one remote would not work with any TIU. 
With the TIU running a locomotive you should be able to turn on any remote and push the read button and have the remote find the TIU and locomotive. (it should say that the loco is at 0 SMPH because whatever the engine is doing on startup is considered the initial condition. push the start up button and you should have control) 
If you CAN NOT take control of a locomotive that is already in command mode using a different remote you have a problem with that remote. If you can not get the locomotive to sit still and do not hear the two clicks you have a problem with the TIU. 

So which exactly is happening?


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John Allman on 02/21/2009 5:58 AM
Greg - with a loco on the track, when you turn on the power you will hear two clicks. If you do not, then expect the engine to start up on its own and move. If you do hear the two clicks in the engine AND the loco still moves on its own get a new friend. 
Ok, just kidding. The clicking is the solenoids on the DCS and will indicate whether the signal is reaching the locomotive. 
(before we begin our initial conditions are DCS 4.1+ installed in both TIU and all remotes) 
the very first thing to try if the engine starts up on its on is to turn the engine around 180 degrees. I previously recommened your fingers as the simplest way to do that. You have not stated that you did this yet. However I will assume you did. Since one of the TIUs and locomotives worked in command mode, did you then change remotes to see if the remote worked with operating TIU/locomotive? You did not comfirm that yet either but I will also assume you did because you said one remote would not work with any TIU. 
With the TIU running a locomotive you should be able to turn on any remote and push the read button and have the remote find the TIU and locomotive. (it should say that the loco is at 0 SMPH because whatever the engine is doing on startup is considered the initial condition. push the start up button and you should have control) 
If you CAN NOT take control of a locomotive that is already in command mode using a different remote you have a problem with that remote. If you can not get the locomotive to sit still and do not hear the two clicks you have a problem with the TIU. 

So which exactly is happening?





Greg,

You should really listen and follow what John has posted because it is EXACTLY how I resolve my problem when I have it. 
You have stated in this post that you have neve "heard of a POLARITY SWITCH?" That is weird because I thought ll modern loco's ( steam or diesel ) had this switch on them somewhere. You probably know it as the NMRA switch. 

If youfolow Johns advice which is the same advice thet Ray would give you, you should be able to solve the problem. Thier is a possiblity that the "dead TIU" has been handeled roughly or dropped and the radio board inside has come loose, causeing an RF read error, you should ask your buddy if he has dropped it.

You do not need to make a polarity test device, you just need to use a Volt/Ohm meeter. Red=+, black= -, simple electricity. 

Yes Track polarity is IMPORTANT, but it is also important that the power going into the TIU is of correct polarity too, and from the the TIU to the track. I can confirm that even tho the Engine may not be oreintated to track properly, that if you flip the polarity switch, it will work, might act a little funny but it will work.

The best thing for your buddies to do is contact MTH or one the DCS guru's here DIRECTLY to get this solved. I would suggest they either go to Ray's website, Contact John, or get out their DCS books and read them. This is basic electricity, nothing really complicated about it. If the red LED is flashing, then the TIU is working, ( has power ).

There are only three componets in the DCS system, the Transformer, The TIU and the Remote, four if you include the engine. It's about as simple as it gets, just don't try to ove think it.

Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jeeze Cliff... 

We did find out, LONG time ago about the track polarity. I'm an engineer, I certainly know how to use a voltmeter. 

What you keep missing or whatever is my point in the last few posts, if you go to some arbitrary layout, and have no idea if the owner of the loco has played with the polarity switch, the way to know if polarity is right is be ready to catch the loco if it is wrong..... just a weird thing about DCS. 

Yes, of course we know about the polarity on the input, that AGAIN was mentioned long time ago in this thread. 

I will figure out the last bits, but seems we have an unresponsive TIU, and all you need to "test" a TIU is power in (and for good measure we throw a light bulb on the output) and a working remote. 

We have a known good remote, and one TIU cannot link up. I will verify that all of this, which I have verified over the phone with my buddy is indeed true. 

Your posts keep having the flavor like I am not listening. PLEAE read from the beginning of this thread. You will see that my buddies did not remember the track polarity issue. Your comments seem to be from someone who read the last couple of posts in a 2 page thread. 

All I have been asking is that is there anything else, and the answer is no. Hardwired or wireless, the only way to "Reset" a TIU is via the remote. (At least all that have contributed). 

Regards, Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg - with a loco on the track, when you turn on the power you will hear two clicks. If you do not, then expect the engine to start up on its own and move. If you do hear the two clicks in the engine AND the loco still moves on its own get a new friend.


Yep, we have that under our belts, but I will try to confirm the 2 clicks on the errant TIU. First things first, he cannot address that one TIU at all, so the clicks are beyond the problem.


Ok, just kidding. The clicking is the solenoids on the DCS and will indicate whether the signal is reaching the locomotive. 

Got it. 


(before we begin our initial conditions are DCS 4.1+ installed in both TIU and all remotes) 

yep, I mistakenly reported 4.01, not 4.10


the very first thing to try if the engine starts up on its on is to turn the engine around 180 degrees. I previously recommened your fingers as the simplest way to do that. You have not stated that you did this yet.

Yes, I DID state it, look at post on 2/17. We know the polarity problem (news to me, and forgotten by the owners) 


However I will assume you did. Since one of the TIUs and locomotives worked in command mode, did you then change remotes to see if the remote worked with operating TIU/locomotive?
Yes, also confirmed in earlier posts'


You did not comfirm that yet either but I will also assume you did because you said one remote would not work with any TIU. 
Right, confirmed 



With the TIU running a locomotive you should be able to turn on any remote and push the read button and have the remote find the TIU and locomotive. (it should say that the loco is at 0 SMPH because whatever the engine is doing on startup is considered the initial condition. push the start up button and you should have control) 

Hold on! you skipped the point that one TIU cannot be addressed. The other one works. You went right past the problem. 



If you CAN NOT take control of a locomotive that is already in command mode using a different remote you have a problem with that remote. If you can not get the locomotive to sit still and do not hear the two clicks you have a problem with the TIU. 

Again, you jumped past the problem I have been typing over and over, One TIU cannot be addressed by any remote, and the remotes work, and 2 other TIUs work 


So which exactly is happening?
You missed reading what I stated the current problem is (we eliminated the others), We have one TIU that can NEVER be addressed by a known working remote, whether wireless or wired. The TIU powers up indicating address 1.

Regards, Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To be really clear: 

We have 2 working remotes, 2 working TIUs, 2 working locomotives. Any combination of the above works fine. We are NOT running 2 TIUs at the same time. 

We have one TIU that can never be added/addressed by any of the working hardware, and reports address 1. 

We have one remote that can never do anything, wireless or wired. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. I REALLY appreciate everyone's help, but PLEASE, read the whole thread if you are just coming into this, "been there, done that" had pretty much been my reply for the last number of posts!


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Busy week on my end...

Yes, what Joe indicated is right, the only way to reset the TIU is through the remote menus.

To clarify one thing on the polarity... incorrect polarity in and of itself in any one of four possible polarity scenarios does not cause the engine to take off. If you are having this problem there is some other factor at play, so once you've identified the real cause of the problem there will be no need to keep 10' of distance in front or behind the engine and the system will operate reliably. Incorrect polarity may be seem to impact whether or not this happens but there is something else going on. I've bench tested an engine in all four cases and the engine stays put, waiting for a command which means it's seen the watchdog signal even with the polarity wrong. This is why I asked the questions I did before because I think something else is at play here. More likely than not however, you either have a track signal issue or you are turning on the power to the transformer and are then increasing the voltage to the track too slowly. You need to preset the voltage on the transformer then turn the power on. Slowly increasing the track voltage can be a cause for the engine to sometimes miss the watchdog signal and start-up on its own. 
Regarding the dead/bad/non-responding equipment, chances are if the polarities are all correct, Remote and TIUs are properly reset, then I would be checking the RF boards in the suspect TIUs and/or remotes. Carefully press boards down to ensure they are properly plugged in and retest. If you then still suspect you have faulty equipment then I would work back through an authorized MTH service center/dealer. Loose TIU RF boards can also possibly cause erratic behavior.



Regarding the watchdog signal: pre v4.xx was only sent for about 1 sec and now post v4.xx is around 5 seconds or so to help ensure you don't have an engine miss the signal. Occurrences of a random missed watchdog signal should now be non-existent.

The issues we have had with Cliff's engines at the show and at his house have been a combination of 4 issues over time. First as he expressed the polarity, has given him fits and what he needed was to have a systematic way of telling at a glance it was set correctly when moving back and forth from home to show(at the transformer by direction switch, by the wire by wire markings, at the engine by relay click) Second, the club layout when we first started needed some TLC. Some jumper sections of track were old and badly corroded, many connection had slide joiners that had been in place for apparently a long time, and folks were forgetting to tighten rail clamps down. Third, the RF board in his TIU was coming loose in transport because of the antenna mod we performed weakened the adhesive holding the board in place. Fourth, when v4.00 came out we both upgraded and encountered the startup and add engine bug the new version had. Now that these issues are addressed we don't have the problems any longer. 

Polarity confirmation for me takes no more than 15 seconds with a glance at the power supply direction switch, wires by wire markings and relay clicks at the engine. On a day to day basis, I run my trains the same way, leave my transformer the same way and never mess with the wires, so I put my trains on the track and go. This will be the case for the vast majority of the users and if they do flip the engine around, in time you will quickly learn to flip the polarity switch when you do. It's not complicated really, just some basic steps.

1 - You need to make sure you have your direction switch set the direction so you have + on the terminal you expect +, and - on the terminal you expect -
2 - Know which wire (usually wire pairs have ID markings to distinguish them) you use for + and which for - and connect accordingly to the TIU. (I use banana plugs for quick and easy setup)
3 - For the TIU to track polarity, just listen to the relay clicks (if you are using DC power). Two clicks when turning on track power means you have proper polarity. A series of clicks (3+) means it's incorrect.

Note: 1) If you have polarity incorrect and need to correct, you MUST cycle power on the power supply. In addition, I recommend turning the power supply off before changing the polarity. 2) Ensure that you preset your transformer the desired voltage, THEN turn the engine on. Wait a few seconds before reapplying track power.

For anyone reading this later, as Joe said before, DCS is not this difficult to use or setup. As with any other control system, when you first get it, you should spend some time reading the DCS manual that comes with the TIU and remote so you can understand the basics of how the system works. (Greg, I don't know if they have an online version available but I can see if I can find one. If not I will scan the one I have and post it as a future project. Ask your friends if they have a copy.) I can imagine if these poor fellows didn't understand that the polarity between the PS and TIU & the TIU and each engine needs to be correct then I can imagine they must have had a very frustrating experience in using this system which is unfortunate. Out of the box the remote has one TIU address=1 entry and the TIU is set to address=1. You just need to connect the wires and go. By the time you start needing to add more TIUs, for us in G scale at least, this means you are running a BIG layout (I run my entire 700ft layout with 1 TIU in unlimited amperage “passive” mode with SS rail with multiple trains)) Per the generally accepted O-gauge forum guidelines this shouldn't be possible. If you are wanting to bring your engine to run at a friend's layout, you only need to bring your engine. Bring your remote only if you want it will work on another TIU with no problem. You don't need to bring your TIU with you.


Gavin what is an IMI?


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02/21/2009 10:05 AM
To be really clear: 

We have 2 working remotes, 2 working TIUs, 2 working locomotives. Any combination of the above works fine. We are NOT running 2 TIUs at the same time. 

We have one TIU that can never be added/addressed by any of the working hardware, and reports address 1. 

We have one remote that can never do anything, wireless or wired. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. I REALLY appreciate everyone's help, but PLEASE, read the whole thread if you are just coming into this, "been there, done that" had pretty much been my reply for the last number of posts! 




Ensure the RF boards in the non-responding TIU and remote are properly seated. On the non-functioning remote, what is the TIU configuration? What is the confirmed TIU address of each of the three TIUs? 


Raymond


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 02/21/2009 10:15 AM
Busy week on my end...

Yes, what Joe indicated is right, the only way to reset the TIU is through the remote menus.

To clarify one thing on the polarity... incorrect polarity in and of itself in any one of four possible polarity scenarios does not cause the engine to take off. If you are having this problem there is some other factor at play, so once you've identified the real cause of the problem there will be no need to keep 10' of distance in front or behind the engine and the system will operate reliably. Incorrect polarity may be seem to impact whether or not this happens but there is something else going on. I've bench tested an engine in all four cases and the engine stays put, waiting for a command which means it's seen the watchdog signal even with the polarity wrong. This is why I asked the questions I did before because I think something else is at play here. More likely than not however, you either have a track signal issue or you are turning on the power to the transformer and are then increasing the voltage to the track too slowly. You need to preset the voltage on the transformer then turn the power on. Slowly increasing the track voltage can be a cause for the engine to sometimes miss the watchdog signal and start-up on its own. 
Regarding the dead/bad/non-responding equipment, chances are if the polarities are all correct, Remote and TIUs are properly reset(Perform the factory reset), then I would be checking the RF boards in the suspect TIUs and/or remotes. Carefully press boards down to ensure they are properly plugged in and retest. If you then still suspect you have faulty equipment then I would work back through an authorized MTH service center/dealer. Loose TIU RF boards can also possibly cause erratic behavior.



Regarding the watchdog signal: pre v4.xx was only sent for about 1 sec and now post v4.xx is around 5 seconds or so to help ensure you don't have an engine miss the signal. Occurrences of a random missed watchdog signal should now be non-existent.

The issues we have had with Cliff's engines at the show and at his house have been a combination of 4 issues over time. First as he expressed the polarity, has given him fits and what he needed was to have a systematic way of telling at a glance it was set correctly when moving back and forth from home to show(at the transformer by direction switch, by the wire by wire markings, at the engine by relay click) Second, the club layout when we first started needed some TLC. Some jumper sections of track were old and badly corroded, many connection had slide joiners that had been in place for apparently a long time, and folks were forgetting to tighten rail clamps down. Third, the RF board in his TIU was coming loose in transport because of the antenna mod we performed weakened the adhesive holding the board in place. Fourth, when v4.00 came out we both upgraded and encountered the startup and add engine bug the new version had. Now that these issues are addressed we don't have the problems any longer. 

Polarity confirmation for me takes no more than 15 seconds with a glance at the power supply direction switch, wires by wire markings and relay clicks at the engine. On a day to day basis, I run my trains the same way, leave my transformer the same way and never mess with the wires, so I put my trains on the track and go. This will be the case for the vast majority of the users and if they do flip the engine around, in time you will quickly learn to flip the polarity switch when you do. It's not complicated really, just some basic steps.

1 - You need to make sure you have your direction switch set the direction so you have + on the terminal you expect +, and - on the terminal you expect -
2 - Know which wire (usually wire pairs have ID markings to distinguish them) you use for + and which for - and connect accordingly to the TIU. (I use banana plugs for quick and easy setup)
3 - For the TIU to track polarity, just listen to the relay clicks (if you are using DC power). Two clicks when turning on track power means you have proper polarity. A series of clicks (3+) means it's incorrect.

Note: 1) If you have polarity incorrect and need to correct, you MUST cycle power on the power supply. In addition, I recommend turning the power supply off before changing the polarity. 2) Ensure that you preset your transformer the desired voltage, THEN turn the engine on. Wait a few seconds before reapplying track power.

For anyone reading this later, as Joe said before, DCS is not this difficult to use or setup. As with any other control system, when you first get it, you should spend some time reading the DCS manual that comes with the TIU and remote so you can understand the basics of how the system works. (Greg, I don't know if they have an online version available but I can see if I can find one. If not I will scan the one I have and post it as a future project. Ask your friends if they have a copy.) I can imagine if these poor fellows didn't understand that the polarity between the PS and TIU & the TIU and each engine needs to be correct then I can imagine they must have had a very frustrating experience in using this system which is unfortunate. Out of the box the remote has one TIU address=1 entry and the TIU is set to address=1. You just need to connect the wires and go. By the time you start needing to add more TIUs, for us in G scale at least, this means you are running a BIG layout (I run my entire 700ft layout with 1 TIU in unlimited amperage “passive” mode with SS rail with multiple trains)) Per the generally accepted O-gauge forum guidelines this shouldn't be possible.


Gavin what is an IMI?


Raymond













Ray, 

IMI = Installation & Maintenance Instructions 


Highly recommended for first time users










Gavin


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Gavin. Never seen that acronym before.


Raymond


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 02/21/2009 10:39 AM
Thanks Gavin. Never seen that acronym before.


Raymond























I work for a British Company........ everything is different.


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02/21/2009 9:56 AM
Jeeze Cliff... 

I'm an engineer, I certainly know how to use a voltmeter. 
An engineer,huh? a TRAIN Engineer? a Structural Engineer? or an Electrical Engineer? 


What you keep missing or whatever is my point in the last few posts, if you go to some arbitrary layout, and have no idea if the owner of the loco has played with the polarity switch, the way to know if polarity is right is be ready to catch the loco if it is wrong..... just a weird thing about DCS. 
What is an ARBITRARY LAYOUT? I would check polarity BEFORE applying power

Yes, of course we know about the polarity on the input, that AGAIN was mentioned long time ago in this thread. 

I will figure out the last bits,
Which "last bits" are you talking about, you don't fully explain here.

We have a known good remote, and one TIU cannot link up. I will verify that all of this, which I have verified over the phone with my buddy is indeed true. 
You have stated in this post that you have 2 good remotes, 2 good TIU's, so are you talking about a 3rd TIU that is not working? You really need to clarify how many TIU's and remotes are involved in this situation.

Your posts keep having the flavor like I am not listening. PLEAE read from the beginning of this thread. You will see that my buddies did not remember the track polarity issue. Your comments seem to be from someone who read the last couple of posts in a 2 page thread.
I am not trying to imply that you are not listening, you just seem to side step some of the answers that the "guru's" are posting. I have read this post from the begining. 

All I have been asking is that is there anything else, and the answer is no. Hardwired or wireless, the only way to "Reset" a TIU is via the remote. (At least all that have contributed). 
Yes, the ONLY way to reset the TIU is thru the remote. If the remote doese not recognize the TIU, then apparently the RF board is either LOOSE or has come disconnected from the main board in the TIU, whch is caused by rough handling of the TIU, in ex. ( dropping it, it falling off the shelf, being accidently or otherwise knocked off the shelf)

Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

1. electrical - have designed a fair number of consumer devices. 
2. Cliff, the word arbitrary is in the dictionary 
3. yep, 3 tiu's, it's in the thread 
4. what, pray tell, specifically did I side step? 
5. There could be a possibility that the TIU is now defective. By the way, reseated the rf board in the non-functioning remote. No improvement. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

OK,,, fiesty I say... 

Issue is to understand the concept and yes I am about to... 

Literature aside, sometimes a good video on the technology says a lot re what to do re diagnostics. 


Greg, do your buddy's have the IMI's / free issue videos for the TIU's and have you read / reviewed them and understood them? 

Everyone needs to back down here. I see knee jerk comments with little common sense here. Emotionally driven by both sides. 


Slow down .... try 2 smph on the DCS system and everyone will feel happy









gg 

PS: try this.... TIU / remotes working so get them off the thread. Now we are working with one remote and one TIU that seems to be buggered... OK... Greg, using progressive logic, eliminate the variables given that the underlying structure is there. From your schooling I know that you know how to create controlled experiments yes? 


Plan the work... and work the plan.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Guys, I appreciate all the helpful comments. 

There have been no more lately, no new information, and a ridiculous and insulting question about being an engineer. 

So, I'm calling it quits on the thread. 

Thanks to all that helped. 

Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Greg, you seem like a stand up guy that helps out the hobby. Your website proves that you help the hobby. After all you were helping friends fix their system. A lot of people are bashing MTH DCS so people that use it get defensive. Posting that the system was wierd to use brought out some bad vibes. Its a more complex system that has two way communication but very easy to use once set up correctly. I wish you the best and hope you forget about any negative results that this thread has brought you. Joe


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thank you Joe. 

It is a weird aspect of DCS. DCC has things that make people crazy. All systems have a weak point. We have to just admit this things and work through them. 

I had never hooked up a DCS system, and had two people who have owned it for several years, and I was helping THEM. Still there was some basic "Cockpit error". So, I was looking at things as a newbie. I think that is a reasonable situation. 

You are right, my website is to help others, otherwise it would be private. 

Anyway, I'll post my experiences and the tips I got from all the helpful people on my site. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Greg, I look forward to your input re DCS on your site.. 

As I am finding out there is no perfect system. (trust me on that one) 


Quite frankly, I need Massoth and DCC to round out my experience... however... This PS3 bit from MTH is slowing me down combined with the fact that I am BROKE... 


It is going to be good...









I love your blurps on LS. Good food. 



gg


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