# New SD 45 wheels



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well AC did it again. Another change so now it makes it hard to change wheels if one had some SS wheels he wanted to install. Check it out. Here is the fpic.









Later RJD


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Hi RJ, 

It looks like the "D" opening is to keep the wheel from slipping on the axle hub. Does this suggest Aristo no longer uses a tapered hub? 

Can you post a picture of the hub without a wheel installed? 

Thank you, 
-Ted


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ted I'll see if I can get a shot of the axle. It does look like it is not tapered. Also these wheels are fairly slick and Im have trouble pulling any amount of cars yp a 1% grade as the wheels will start slipping even tho I added the large weights. Later RJD


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

RDJ;

Last Saturday at the Lakeside Lines operating session (HO), the merits of the "Bullfrog Snot" paint-your-own traction tires were discussed. Granted, those guys who liked the product were HO modelers, but I have also heard good things from some of the O gauge crowd concerning this paint on traction tire product. I just thought I would mention it as a possible solution to the problem.

Yours, David Meashey


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow--they decided to abandon the taper? I wonder if they will do this on their other locos? It'd be a great idea


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted: Here is a pic of the axle also one with the shim I added but its a little fuzzy. Later RJD









I used a plastic washer to get the gage correct









This show the axle and looks like no taper. Later RJD


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Wow RJ those are some terrible pictures my eyes hurt just looking at them







.

Seriously though, it appears that the wheels are now keyed, is that the case?

If so it looks like Aristo has followed through on their promise to correct the two major problems with their motor blocks.
1) the wheel/axle mounting problem which led quartering issues and loose wheels/axles.
2) the wheel flange thickness, which caused the gage issues.

Scott should be given a lot of credit for pushing through the changes.

Greg must be beside himself with joy at being able to bury that dead horse now









Ron


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

That sure looks like the type material 3rail O gauge wheels are made of? They don't slip much but they always have traction tires. I wonder if one could ruff up the surface to help? Probably not much surface makes contact anyways? It would be nice to get a drawbar pull measurement of these to compare. 
I have heard good things about that paint on traction tire stuff also.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

If you're having traction issues and never had them before I'd be interested to know if they changed the wheel profile and/or gauge in some way that affects how the wheel contacts the rail.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, has **** frozen over? 

Can it be? 

Aristo Craft finally has seen the light?


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

RJ 
I'm confused you say you use that washer to gage but when you tighten the screw what is it doing, is it trying to pull the axal out of the gear?


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm trying to figure out why you would give Scott props, for fixing something thats been defective for 8 years, Yet Aristo would not agree that there were issue. Typical Aristo. 1 step forward 2 steps back.


J.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There is a screw on the end of the axle, it secures the wheel to the axle. 

I'd love to find out what material the wheel is made of, RJ says after removing the paint, it's silver colored. 

I'm of course thrilled that there now exists the possibility to re-gauge the wheels. 

It's also wonderful that wheel slippage should be a thing of the past. 

I'm also hoping that this technology will spill over to the steamers, where the problem is much more severe. 

Great day... the only downside is that to convert to the wheels it will take replacement of the wheel and axle, and that usually requires disassembly of the motor block completely. 

I surely hope that Aristo keep going! 


Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Jethro J. on 06 Feb 2013 06:07 PM 
I'm trying to figure out why you would give Scott props for fixing something thats been defective for 8 years, Yet Aristo would not agree that there were issue. Typical Aristo. 1 step forward 2 steps back.


J.

Hi Nick how's it going







.

The reason I give Scott props is because he has only been in charge for less than a year and appears to have fixed one of the major issues with aristo power blocks. That deserves credit not haterade. 

Ron


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I for one would give AristoCraft all the praise they deserve, if they would not deny the problems exist in the first place. 

I still rate the RS3 as the smoothest running Large Scale dismal, bar none. The Bachmann 45 tonner comes close, but eventually the pick up springs crap out, resulting in a dog on track power.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony and Jethro do indeed have valid points. Ron you have not been around long enough to experience the frustration and personal attacks to people who have tried to get this fixed, only to be told there is no problem. The number of nasty comments by people "hiding" on other forums, even moderators of this forum, presidents of companies, the concerted attempts to silence people by behind the scenes letters and emails and even attempts to get people kicked off forums because they don't "drink the kool aide". 

So, there's a lot of bad blood that has gone on that you aren't aware of, or weren't around. 

All that notwithstanding, props to Scott are in order, and Aristo now. 

I prefer to go forward into the future but I would be foolish to forget the past. 

So, in summary: YAHOO! I'm going to see if Aristo will sell the wheels and axles at a reasonable price so I can upgrade all my diesels.









Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

That is exactly my point Greg. 
There is a new person in charge, and so far it appears that Scott is moving Aristo in the right direction, and that's great news for everyone.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

COMPLETELY AGREE (not trying to get the last word, want it to be completely clear I'm a happy camper and applaud Scott and Aristo) 

Greg


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06 Feb 2013 08:21 PM 
Tony and Jethro do indeed have valid points. Ron you have not been around long enough to experience the frustration and personal attacks to people who have tried to get this fixed, only to be told there is no problem. The number of nasty comments by people "hiding" on other forums, even moderators of this forum, presidents of companies, the concerted attempts to silence people by behind the scenes letters and emails and even attempts to get people kicked off forums because they don't "drink the kool aide". 

So, there's a lot of bad blood that has gone on that you aren't aware of, or weren't around. 

All that notwithstanding, props to Scott are in order, and Aristo now. 

I prefer to go forward into the future but I would be foolish to forget the past. 

So, in summary: YAHOO! I'm going to see if Aristo will sell the wheels and axles at a reasonable price so I can upgrade all my diesels.









Greg 

Thanks Greg, I couldn't have said it better myself. Still alot of bad blood, I heard Scott still hasn't replaced those defective SS wheels and motor blocks he knew had a issues but still sold them to the public to get rid of them
2 years ago.
Just as in life, buyers beware is a good motto to have for certain manufactures.
J.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Sorry but I have to do this............... 

If Scott has been in charge for ''only a year''......... 

My,.. how time flies eh!! 

So how long does it take for a company to make a decision to change a product? 
How long does it take to do the redesign of parts,..? 
How long does it take to do the testing of the redesign,..? 
How long does it take to make the new parts,?? 
How long does it take to bring a change such as this to market? 
How long does it take to ship the new parts to this country...?? - ( well they go into the motor blocks outside this country ...) 

Get My point now?!!! 

Did ''all this effort'' happen in just one year!!!??? 

Sleep well, they have a Long ways to go........... 

D.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

You would be surprised how fast problems with AC locos can be fixed when they want them to be fixed fast. 
Remember when the new design tapered wheel shaft drives first came out with the SD-45? They had plastic hex drives between the motors that crapped out real fast. It was only a matter of weeks before the metal versions arrived.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Ok so let me get this straight, some of you are now complaining that things were fixed too (







) FAST?????









Hey Nik (aka Jethro) I still haven't received that GG1 QSI board I sent you, any chance I can get that back?

Ron


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Isn't it brilliant how some people can twist comments to sound like a complaint. Unless of course it was meant to be an example of irony and I somehow doubt that. 

BTW that should be ........too FAST??????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

ok, so a post of mine was deleted.... and all I said is that I have about $400 worth of those ss wheels and motor blocks, and I too was promised that they would be fixed and they have not. 

what the heck is going on... want a picture? 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 06 Feb 2013 10:42 PM 
Isn't it brilliant how some people can twist comments to sound like a complaint. Unless of course it was meant to be an example of irony and I somehow doubt that. 

BTW that should be ........too FAST?????? 

Sorry Tony I was not referring to you, I agree with what you said, and thanks for pointing out my spelling error







. I guess there are people that won't be happy with what Aristo does, until Aristo goes out of business.

Ron


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

Posted By aceinspp on 06 Feb 2013 02:53 PM 
Ted: Here is a pic of the axle also one with the shim I added but its a little fuzzy. Later RJD









I used a plastic washer to get the gage correct









This show the axle and looks like no taper. Later RJD
Sorry your thread went off track a little but are you saying you needed to shim the the wheel to get a good back to back on these new designed motor blocks?

Nice pictures and thanks for posting.

J.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have not had a problem with my SD 45s wheels. I have 4. What difference in gauge are we trying to compensate for? 

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Check the back to back gauge. 

Check the flange thickness. 

Compare to NMRA specs. 

They are way off. 

Can cause problems in switches, and track with tight gauge. 

This has been an issue with Aristo locos forever. 

Aristo loco wheels FAIL these tests with the Aristo gauge. 

This is not news. 

What is too bad is that the last run of Dash 9's, with the new wheel contour were PERFECT. 

This is a big step forward for Aristo, and I'm hoping that the next run of locos will have the "keyed" wheels and axles AND the Dash 9 wheel contour and the Dash 9 gauge, back to back, etc. 

The good news is that it seems that finally Aristo has admitted to themselves that something needs to change. That is great. Now just get it all there on one loco. 

Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

RJ, 

Thank you for the pictures. It certainly does look like the axles are no longer tapered and have a "D" key to accept the the new, corresponding, wheel hub profile. 

As to lost traction, did you clean the tread surface of the wheels with something like alcohol just to make sure possible factory oils were removed? Anyway, nicely made stainless wheels on stainless track can be a bit more slippery, but the ones I had made by Datum Precision sometime ago have worked well on my locos and layout. On my outdoor SS track double loop with grade of about 2.3 %, I need to MU 4 GP40s (all with Datum Precision SS wheels) to pull 30 cars - though many of those cars are very heavy at about 5 lbs. 

As to paint on traction material mentioned by others - I suspect this stuff is not electrically conductive. Even if it were, it may tend to retain oxidation or tiny debris and cause electrical pickup problems for those that use track power like myself. 
I suppose for a 3 axle motor block loco, one could compromise and coat just one axle pair of wheels and see if it helps without impacting electrical pickup too much. 

Anyway, congratulations to Scott and Aristo-Craft for making the new axle / wheel hub changes and using SS for the wheels. 

-Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I also experienced some initial slipperiness with SS wheels on SS rail, but after "break in" and getting the "dead bug grease" off my rails, the adhesion was very good. 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted: After further test today the wheels are steel as a mag sticks to them. I did clean the wheels with my Kadee wheel cleaner so that I got down to shinny metal. Still slipped so it looks like the older wheels have better traction but that is about all it offers. Later RJD


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

RJ, 

The wheels are not stainless!!! Then they must be plated? 
If so, I wonder if quality is better than those wheels on the GP40s - which was the "last straw" for me since the plating fell off them; thus, I had the Datum Precision SS wheels made for me. 

-Ted


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted the wheels are not plated. I just wore off some the black like paint on the wheels. Did not take long for them to get black again after running. Saw some arcing on my SS track while running. So far has not seemed to bother the running of the loco. The only problem I have had is the wheels seems to slip easier but I need to do a bit more testing. Originally I had two USAT auto racks and two 60 ft USAT cars and a caboose and could not make it up my 1% grade. I even had the old style weights installed. I will try some of my 100 tons hoppers and see what happens. I think the cars had a lot of drag and the are heavy. Later RJD


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

300 series Stainless Steel is not magnetic with the exception of 400 series stainless which is not used alot.................Jim


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

So they are some kind of ferrous (magnetic) metal, and they aren't plated, and they quickly seem to oxidize (turn black) when run, and they are more slippery. They have a different profile than other Aristo wheels.

I wonder what they're made of? I wish Aristo would give some explanation. Is this keyed axle/unplated wheel going to be their standard on all locos? I posted that question over on the Aristo forum, but so far nothing. If this becomes the standard, i'd probably want to do some upgrading.

It often seems like aristo has little control over the process, and that the chinese manufacturers are driving product changes.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

As I have previously pointed out in discussions on the new Auto-racks - they do have a lot of inherent drag, I think caused by their higher than normal weight. 

D


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well ran the unit today with 12 AC 100 ton hoppers and a caboose and it ran fine up the grade. So guessing the auto racks and the other two USAT cars had a bunch of drag. I will add cars till I get wheels slip. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That makes more sense, hard to believe that with the extra weights, that pulling power would not be good, the SD45's have always been good pullers (once they had their weights added). 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well ran with all of my 100 ton hoppers which total 20 and the unit did fine. So happy about the out come. Later RJD


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well another interesting thing was noticed about the wheels while Greg was here. Seems the flange has no taper and is pretty blunt which make it have issues when going through a diverging route point facing move.







Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, after spending a week, the wheels appear to be sintered steel, not plated and a light coat of black paint. 

RJ, I forgot to tell you I took one of the high noses and spun the wheels with the Kadee cleaner and then used the wire brush on the dremel. I got down to pretty solid steel, meaning the "black pits" and spots were most likely bits of paint that had not worn off yet. 

The metal surface looks solid, but it's very clear that these are not CNC machined but sintered (pressure "cast" powdered steel). 

The plus side is no plating to wear off... and solid, hard wheels, an advantage over the traditionally poor Aristo plating, and the pot metal you run on when the plating is gone. The other plus is the "keyed" axle. 
Also plus is the flange thickness is perfect, right around 0.60 

The minuses are: the bare steel can rust easily, no plating... back to back is wrong again (too narrow)... (thought with the "perfect" Dash 9's it would continue), and the blunt edge, actually squared off, of the flange makes the loco MUCH more susceptable to splitting switch points, and/or climbing up on the guard rail. 

This last issue needs to be understood by the manufacturer: 

1. overly wide guard rail flangeway... this allows the wheels to not follow the flangeway at the frog, but climb over the frog. 
2. narrow back to back, again allows misalignment of the flange in the flangeway, resulting in derailments. 
3. now the "flat edge" instead of a "pointed edge" on the flange, so it is more likely to walk up on the beginning of the guard rail, rather than move into the flangeway. 

All 3 of these things are easily fixed by the manufacturer, and what is maddening, over the years, each of these things have been done right, just NEVER AT THE SAME TIME !! 

Take the dash 9 wheel contour and back to back and gauge.... narrow down the switch flangeways to spec, stop making tight gauge in the middle of the switch and you would have so much more reliability and fewer derailments. 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The pressure cast wheel must have an issue with undercuts needed to cast a correct flange. 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)




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