# Taps Dies and Scale Nuts



## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

I have been making truss rods and bolts form 1/16 inch brazing 
rod. The diameter is about 0.062". I started by using a KS 0-80 
die to thread it. It wooked but was hard to cut acually too hard as i had to put the rod in a vise. Some times the rod would twist rather than cut. I then tried a KS 1-72 die and found it work alot better. Based on a tap die and drill chart, 
the 80 die should work for 0.060 rod a 1-72 should work for .070 
rod. 

With the KS 1-72 die, I cut alot of rods and bolts and they work great with 1-72 scale nuts that I bought at a hobby shop. 

Online I saw that a industrial supplier had 1-72 hex nuts for about $5 per 100. I realize that the scale nut is smaller 
than the regular hex nut but I thought that the rod diameter 
would be the same. The .062 rod will slide right thru the 
hole of a regular 1-72 hex nut. 

Is the answer to all this that the tap die and drill charts for regular hex nuts don't apply to scale nuts?


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I can't comment on the size of various threads, but I can offer a suggestion that may help with cutting the threads. 

I'm assuming the brazing rod you're using is brass. If so, it has probably been work hardened during the manufacturing process. You can anneal it easily by heating it with a torch - a normal propane torch should get plenty hot enough, without the risk of melting anything. Once it's cooled off again, the brass will be much softer, which may halp with cutting the threads.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

but I thought that the rod diameter would be the same.
Here's a table of *thread specifications* showing the major diameters for #0 and #1 screws. A #1 thread is larger tha a #0 - they are not the same major dia.


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## Greg Stevens (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Dwight. I can really use this too.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Running a 0 x 80 die over any material, brass or otherwise, is very difficult to do unless you use a die holder in the tail stock of a lathe. For truss rods on a bridge, there are 2 things you could try. One is use threaded rod. McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/) sells 2 x 56 stainless steel threaded rod in 6 foot lengths. Size #2 is 0.086" dia, which is larger than #0, but the difference is really not noticeable. A second way may be to cut short lengths of thin wall brass tube with a 1/16" inside diameter. Loctite or epoxy the truss rod in one end and a cut-off 0 x 80 machine screw in the other. On a truss bridge, that tube will easily hide inside the truss timbers. 

Another thing is that ordinary hardware store type nuts can have a sloppy fit in these small sizes. I have found that McMaster-Carr's "small pattern nuts" are a very good fit for their price. Small pattern nuts are a little smaller in diameter than regular SAE so they look better too. 

Bob


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2008)

or you just use bicicle-spokes....


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Bike spokes. That's even better. I withdraw. 

Bob


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## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for all the response. I have been using 1/16 inch 
brazing rods for car truss rods and various bolts. 
From trial and error I found that a KS 1-72 die and Walters 
scale nuts work with this rod. In theory based on tap and die charts this rod should be too small but threads easy and the nuts snug up well. So I suspect that these tap and dies for scale nuts are smaller than the standard 1-72. Cant explained but it works.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

I buy all my nuts and bolts,screws, taps and dies from Micro Fasteners in NJ. Really fast and friendly service. They are even trying to obtain square washers for me. You got it square washers which are out there but hard to find. Got one in a pack of round ones once. Try them. Just Google micro fasteners. 
Noel


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

This might help you all out. 
I also get my scale nuts washers from Microfasteners. 
I also inquired about square lag bolts for bridges and that said sure but the lag bolts are subed out to another company and the min would be about 25,000 pcs. at about $7 per 100 
Die, tap & drill sizes 
Die size: #00-90 #0-80 #1-72 #2-56 
rod size: .047(3/64)	.064 (1/16)	.073 .086 
tap size: #00-90 #0-80 #1-72 #2-56 
tap drill size: #61	.055 (#55)	#53 #50 
clearance drill size: #55 .052 (#52)	#48 #43 
I really hate this text editor when it removes all the sapaces all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Kovacjr on 07/30/2008 6:08 AM

_«snip...» I really hate this text editor when it removes all the sapaces all the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!_
Just for the record Mr. Kovac, the old forum software treated multiple consecutive _'Space Characters'_ in exactly the same manner as this one does. As do most all editors found in forum software, not to mention that all browsers are written to ignore them.

If you want to create an organized matrix then use the HTML code tags & 

_(Remember the asterisks must be removed for the tags to execute.)_

*Die, Tap & Drill sizes*        Die Size: #00-90 #0-80 #1-72 #2-56      Rod Size: .047(3/64) .064(1/16) .073 .086      Tap Size: #00-90 #0-80 #1-72 #2-56      Tap Drill Size: #61 .055(#55) #53 #50      Clearance Drill Size: #55 .052(#52) #48 #43


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 07/27/2008 8:31 PM
Running a 0 x 80 die over any material, brass or otherwise, is very difficult to do unless you use a die holder in the tail stock of a lathe. Bob




Eeehhh.... 

Granted, it's not like threading a 6-32, say. But I believe one can dispense with the lathe. (One cannot dispense with a die holder). The main thing is to support the -relatively- fragile wire until you get a good bite going with the die. To do this, clamp it in a vise between a couple of bits of wood so perhaps an inch or so is sticking out. It is up to YOU to make sure the die is not cocked. One way to ease threading with dies on nearly any size stock, and especially the smaller diameters, is to break the sharp edge on a piece of aluminum oxide cloth. (Metal sandpaper). Just round the end over, don't try for a pencil-point finish. The die will 'fall' onto the rod more readily. Use lube. 

Hope this helps. 

Les W.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By chrisb on 07/21/2008 6:26 AM
I have been making truss rods and bolts form 1/16 inch brazing 
rod. The diameter is about 0.062". I started by using a KS 0-80 
die to thread it. It wooked but was hard to cut acually too hard as i had to put the rod in a vise. Some times the rod would twist rather than cut. I then tried a KS 1-72 die and found it work alot better. Based on a tap die and drill chart, 
the 80 die should work for 0.060 rod a 1-72 should work for .070 
rod. 
With the KS 1-72 die, I cut alot of rods and bolts and they work great with 1-72 scale nuts that I bought at a hobby shop. 
Online I saw that a industrial supplier had 1-72 hex nuts for about $5 per 100. I realize that the scale nut is smaller 
than the regular hex nut but I thought that the rod diameter 
would be the same. The .062 rod will slide right thru the 
hole of a regular 1-72 hex nut. 
Is the answer to all this that the tap die and drill charts for regular hex nuts don't apply to scale nuts? 





All SAE (imperial) thread sizes interchange with their like number nut on bolt. I'm not sure what you got, but if it's called 1-72, then it's 1-72, no matter what the outside dimension of the nut is. 

I'd make a wild guess and say the hobby store got some stock mis-labelled. Also, some metric sizes are famous for doing that very thing. 

Les W.


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