# Maximum Voltage and Maximum Amps



## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Hello all,

I was wondering what the maximum voltage that should be presented to a large scale (read G) track (i.e. 24V) ?
Also, does any one have an idea on the maximum amps that should be presented to the same track?

The question stems from "should I invest in one massive power supply or in several small ones".

thanks

Rich


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I would say 24V is about max for voltage. Amps depends on what you want to run, at any one time. A small LGB loco, requires only about 1 amp. A USA with more than one loco and lighted passenger cars could push 10 amps. The amp draw depends on the total load, and the ability of the power supply.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Depends on what you are running...Applying more than 18 VDC to any Lionel Large Scale Engine with sound will destroy the Lionel sound board (For example, Mode 1 on an MRC 60VA transformer). I've run up to 24 VDC on LGB, USA, REA-Aristo, and Bachmann with no issues other than they go faster. Lionel is not that common, just a "heads-up" if you run them.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

If your using decoders and want max speed like i do the 27 volts is great other wise 24 for standard locos for the most part, as was said before amps depends on how mant engines and passenger cars with lights you wish to run. As ive said before try to buy the best power pack you can up front that way if you need more power down the road you have it. As ussual i reccomend a Bridgewerks TDR 25 The best unit on the market in my opionion, and i have just about all the power packs out their, so thats my preferance.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Depends what you want to zorch!

Go with batteries and R/C


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Of course Tom has his helpful post.









Boy if I was on a battery thread and said go track power people would go nuts. 

Back to the poster's question, what are you going to run, just ordinary track power on a single loop? Multiple loops under DC with separate throttles? 

Track powered command control? 

All of this should be considered in determining one large power supply versus several others. 

In my case, for example, I run DCC. It makes more sense to have several separate power districts and separate power supplies, so a short is not trying to put 30 amps through something. I will wind up with either 3 or 4 separate 10 amp power districts. 

If I was to make a general statement without additional knowledge, I would prefer smaller power supplies and more of them. You can get 10 amps at 24 volts regulated power for about $80 each, in a quality product. Search for no-name stuff and you can get it even less. 


Regards, Greg


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Greg, 
I was looking at going with the Aristocraft Revolution for my engines. I already have my loops broken up into logical areas (did it because when I started I was thinking good old cab control - plus I have about 400 feet of underground solid copper 12 guage wire!). I believe you answered my question that having several zones would be better off than one massive power supply. I have run across some 24V, 15A switching supplies for about $40 each so i was thinking about putting a couple of those on my track. 
Rich


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sounds good to me. Also, debugging power problems will be easier. 

Run only the current you want in each "area" so if you get a short from a derailment, you limit the current going through the loco wiring. 

Regards, Greg


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Greg, 
Does anyone have any stats on how much each particular engine draws (max current)? In particular I have several Bachmann Shay's, Bachmann Climax, Bachmann Mogul's, etc. 
Rich


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Go to George Schreyer's site, has current draw on virtually every loco he has ever tested. 

Regards, Greg


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

by evolution (here a starter set, there a pack thrown in with a used loco etc) i got about a dozen small packsof about 0.5 - 1 Amp and 14 - 20 Volt. 
as i'm running only small locos (some plus a motorized tender) and stay with good old analogue i like the situation. 
each pack powers just one section/block. thus each section can be speed-adjusted to grade or other specials. 
sure, i know, a solution like that is too cheap and simple for most, but i like it.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks Greg, 
Of course the Shay was directly listed but I found out the draw under the Climax. 
Rich


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

George's site is a must read. I've read the entire thing about 3 times, and it's about time for me to do it again, as a refresher. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I find that the Bachmann and LGB engines have motors that are modest in current draw. 

Aristo is higher and USA motors are power hogs. 

Biggest current hog I have seen is the USA PA/PB, followed by Aristo SD-45/E8's. 

These are the 3 axle multiple motor powered engines.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Dan, I know what you mean about Aristo SD45's and Dash 9's drawing a lot of current. I took a page from GE's book and tried pulling two of the electric motors out and only powering 4 axles instead of 6 on my SD45. Found it pulled just fine up to 25 cars (didn't try more) and if I want more I just mu a couple of engines together. The reduced my current draw by close to 50% (no surprise) and increased my battery runtime significantly. I've been very happy with the results.

Ed


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I have sent you a private message. Dennis.


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## pryzby1963 (Feb 16, 2008)

Oneof my pet peeves as one who is trying to learn about DCC and other fine points of G-gauge is the use of words like "SPROG" and references to websites without giving the address "George's site is a must read". I realize that many of you are old friends and can speak in abbreviated phrases or words, but for those of us trying to learn it is most annoying and difficult. I hope you understand this is a constructive comment. 

Gross Bahn Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sure Bob, I get what you say. 

Let me give you the other side of the coin, and please don't take this as a rebuff, but put yourself in someone else's shoes: 

Suppose that you have been in the hobby for a while, and while you have a web site that is on your signature, and you encourage people to read and learn, many people REFUSE to even use Google to find a link. 

Suppose you get 1200 emails a day, have a full time job, and spend your precious free time helping others besides on your own hobby. 

Bob, not everyone wants to continuously put in a link in every post to "common knowledge"... it's several extra steps, and you can't use the quick reply. 

So, maybe you can appreciate that this is a constructive comment too, try on your own to find something, if you Google "George Schreyer", the number one hit is his web site, and you SHOULD read it, as I mentioned. 

You have to give us guys a break sometime too, and putting forth the effort on your own first is appreciated. Sometimes us old farts just tire of typing the same stuff over and over. 

Regards, Greg


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Sure thing Greg...But you are responding to a post in the beginner's forum. Different decorum eh?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, no, and I'll tell you why: 

Quote: "One of my pet peeves".... 

If you are a beginner and have already developed "pet peeves"... then I submit you CAN at least try to research things yourself first. If you can type in this forum you can use Google. 

I read forums for FOUR years before posting. I learned a lot before I ever posted. There's lists of sites, there's FAQ's, there's helpful people, etc. 

I think "decorum" here also should be on BOTH sides, not being peevish. 

That's why I have given this response. Otherwise, how do you continue to motivate the "helpful" people? By telling me that I am one of their "pet peeves" because I did not put in a link to George Schreyer, one of most known large scale people with a famous site, probably #1 read? 

Hmm... 

Greg


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Quote: "That's why I have given this response. Otherwise, how do you continue to motivate the "helpful" people?" 

My opinion...To help is it's own motivation. 

Quote: "If you can type in this forum you can use Google" 

Good point, perhaps that's the best answer anyone could have given to the original question.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Boy, I have a set of USA PA/PB units that I've DCS'd and with sound, lights & smoke units running they only draw 3 amps combined with the wheels spinning..and they have traction tires. With the smoke units turned off they only draw 2 amps combined..or 1 amp each. 

Oh, my layout track voltage is 30 volts @ 25 amps.


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## pryzby1963 (Feb 16, 2008)

Greg, 

My response was not directed to you or anyone else, but was a personal observation. I am just learning how to use this website and all of its intricacies, processes, procedures, nomenclature, etc., of the Beginners forum. But I guess that from now on I will use Google (which I am totally familar with its search intricacies) and read the forum without comment. 

Sorry, I have upset you and others, as it was not my intent. I apologize. 

Gross Bahn Bob


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe the forum software could be modified to automatically add a reply of:

"Why don't you Google the terms to get your answers."

And then lock the topic. After all, in 1899 Charles Duell, Commissioner of the Patent Office supposedly said:

"Everything that can be invented as been invented." and thereby suggested closing the Patent Office.

Well, by now, everything that can be done with garden trains has been discussed and cussed in several forums, MLS being just one of them, so all conceivable questions that can be asked have already been answered many times over, and thus, there is no need to discuss it any further.

[Sarcasm mode: off]


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I simply suggested what power supplies he should invest in. 

Can we do this without getting into a fight?


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/tractive_effort_tests.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 06 May 2010 06:36 PM 
Depends what you want to zorch!

Go with batteries and R/C









You did not suggest a dang thing that was helpful Tom... here is your post... you did not mention any power supplies, nor data, nor anything about voltage, amps...

Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Here in the EU we have slightly differing viewpoints... Most of the G1 track fed systems that I have seen have been based on the G1MRA stds of 20 Volts and 10 Amperes. There is a growing number using 24 Volts though. This is not because of increased speed -but more to do with the ease of aquiring 12 Volt motors -which are simply run in Series. When I was looking into the systems that could be used for Gauge '3' I too came to the same conclusion, and most of my Gauge '3' models are powered by 6 Volt motors in Series. This gave me a very easily available source of power control from 12 Volt SLA Batteries at the expense of running rather higher currents to my motors with the consequences of higher heating from the motor fans and power control systems. There are rail fed systems at Gauge '3' but they are in the minority. I would be the first to admit that my models are drastically over powered for "scenic" work and are more suited for small children towing. My personal feeling is that track power can be used quite successfully -but for the larger locos that I am building at the moment that a high current (29A) to low voltage system (6V) is my best bet.

regards

ralph


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

This is the beginners forum. Things should be spelled out in gory Detail for the poster to understand. . Acromyns should NOT be used. When the beginner becomes more familiar with the hobby he can move on to other forums.

If the responder insists on using a Acromyn then he should explain it's meaning when used in this forum


Here you can recommend anything. In the more dedicated forums such as Traditional power I would not suggest Battery Power. If the poster wants to know about Battery Power then mosey on down to the Battery Forum. 

If one does not understand a Acromyn in any forum he should NOT hesitate to ask for a explanation of the acromyn. 

JJ


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Apologies JJ,

EU = European Union.
G1 = Gauge 1 = 45mm gauge.
G1MRA =Gauge 1 Model Railway Association.
Gauge '3' = 63.5mm gauge.
SLA = Sealed Lead Acid.

regards

ralph


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## peteshoulders (Apr 10, 2010)

_*With you on that post Greg,*_



_*I came to the big scale via Google and Georges site and by links to here and others, it was not that hard, I visit Georges and Gregs site approximately twice a month and while I dont expect new stuff everytime, reading and re-reading whats there has saved me unknown amounts af time and money, both of which I dont have bucketsful, The amount of info that is freely shared and for all to see is astonishing, I cannot understand anyone taking any other stand point than a big thank you to George and Greg and the dozens of others that share.*_


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## RioShay (Feb 26, 2009)

i'd like to chime in a thanks to both George for his info packed website that got us thru a couple technical dilemas, and to Greg, whose site also helped us with some crucial power and track decicions. i knew Greg was a busy guy, yet he always took some of his valuable time to gave us advice or answered our questions in his straight shooting style. so with the help of this great site, and these two guys, we had the courage to go ahead and start our railroad which as proved to be enourmously rewarding


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Hey thanks all (and for all of the interesting comments as well),

I do know what it is like to very easily use acronyms in general conversation. I am in technology so we naturally speak of LDAP, SANS, TCP/IP, GB, CitC, TB and R2D2 and we wonder why our clients glaze over!







Now I appreciate ALL of the comments AND the experience behind those comments. Because of this forum I have successfully weathered my layout during it's first Michigan Winter without any serious issues and I appreciate the help that I received here (which kept me from some serious mistakes).

I truly enjoy the comments from the quick tongue in cheek to the elaborate responses I have received. I can enjoy them all (basically this means keep em comin' and be cool!







! Thanks again everyone.

Rich


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