# LGB porter not running



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I bought a "like new" LGB porter on ebay (model 22771). The seller said it had only been used around a couple Christmas trees before being boxed up for a few years. It looks perfect, unused. 

But, no workie. The backhead switch is a 3-way, supposed to be: off / lights & smoke only / motor, lights, smoke. In any position though, there isn't the slightest response. I'm confirming dc voltage at the rails w/ a meter. The seller confirmed his story to me just now, and I believe him, fwiw. He also confirms no modifications (e.g., DCC). 

The guy feels pretty bad, and wants me to send it back for a refund. But since I got it a half-price, and it looks so cool, I'm inclined to do what's necessary to fix it.

So, before tearing into it... 
- Is this something that someone's run up against?
- Is there a mystery switch I haven't seen? Or twisting the stack while reciting the Pledge of Allegiance? (the manual didn't come with it)
- Maybe a loose contact? (that's my first investigation...)
- After sitting for a long time, can things just freeze up? (but that wouldn't explain lights not working)
- Maybe board is shot? (but seller confirms it ran great before boxing)

Thanks for any clues,
===>Cliffy


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Good Luck!
My mythical cure usually involves a Drop kick.....
to a shelf.

John


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

It looks like that is one of the versions that came with an onboard decoder.
That means it could have been set for digital operation only, or the decoder could be toast, which is unlikely as they are quite robust. 
If you can read the CV's check #29 and see what the value is. If it's already at 4 (default for digital and analog operation) then maybe it's a bigger problem.

Keith


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a link to the manual, in case you need it:

http://www.champex-linden.de/download_lgb_bedienungsanleitungen/22771_092002.pdf

Thinking out loud here, it's most likely something simple since it worked before he shipped it. There is usually a plug that plugs into the four pins coming out of the top of the motorblock--that could have come loose given the way they handle packages in the mail these days. 
Also--what kind of DC power unit were you using when you tried it? True analog or PWM? 

KEith


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

John,  ! But I have so many shelf queens already... 

Keith, like you said, it worked before; and for non-DCC locos like these, I just use a good ol' MRC 0-18v throttle.

Thanks for that link. It looks like there's no mystery switch. But, if it is somehow in DCC mode... but the seller says it wasn't modified for DCC, maybe something happened... can't change a CV by being bumped... 

Would love it if there was a decoder in it that I could use!

Thanks Keith, sounds like I need to open 'er up. 

BTW, I found this tips page, 
http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips9/lehmann_porter_tips.html

CJ


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes I definitely think you'll have to open it up to see if a wire has come off somewhere. Those decoders should have all plug-in connections so it should be easy to see if somethings come off.
Those are good little decoders.

Keith


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy

On all LGB engines that I know of the drive wheels can be turned by hand. Check to see if you can rotate them and that the gears, or drive mechanism is not jamed.

I have heard people say, that the gear grease can stiffen over time, especially, if it hasn't been run for several years. I have never encountered this problem, but it is theoretically possible.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Chuck, I was hoping that was all it was, but the motor seems fine. It's a double-ended worm drive, and it doesn't seem stuck.

Keith, I opened it up, but no connectors were loose. I pressed them all, nothing. Here's a pic.










Track voltage is coming all the way up thru the (middle) pins of that connector above the firebox, and those wires go directly to the board. No voltage is coming back from the board to the outboard pins of the same connector. And like I mentioned earlier, no lights have ever lit up yet.

This doesn't look anything like the GIRR tips page pics. And, the number (22771) seems to be a DCC-equipped loco. I just emailed the seller to ask if he'd used some special LGB (DCC) system.

For now, is it safe to test a non-dcc loco on dcc? I don't want to cook things further... But if it is, I'll switch to dcc and check for a cv pulse.

Thanks for your ideas guys,
CJ


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

So it does have the onboard decoder! I was thinking maybe that plug that goes into the motorblock had come off but it looks OK. You could try pulling that plug off, and then applying some DC power to the outer two (motor) pins to verify the motor runs OK, but I'm guessing it will. The middle two pins are from the track, which you could also check to see if the motorblock is picking up power correctly.
It shouldn't matter what DCC system he used--that decoder is DCC compliant and will work with any system. You can try putting it on your DCC system and see what happens.
BTW, I'm assuming you tried it with the back switch in the various positions?


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Keith, I tried applying some voltage directly to the pins. It sputtered, not running smoothly; so I didn't want to do it long. Even if it was the motor though, nothing's getting past the board to the motor.

Yes, switch in its different positions, thought maybe some oxidation in there; but no dif. 

So, I'll give the dcc a whirl, thanks for your thoughts.

[edit]

Nuthing. Tried all the modes, wouldn't read any cv settings. Bummer.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I bought a LGB Harz engine off ebay once, decoder was fried but once removed the engine ran fine in analog mode. Its decoder was a seperate board from the one that carried the constant lighting electronics. You might give Zionsville Train Depot a call, Ross is an expert at LGB repair and they have parts for many engines. Maybe see what it will cost and see if the seller will help out. Mike


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Mike, I'll give that some thought.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Be careful if removing the board as the boasrd does supply 5 volts to then smoke unit and lights.
If the speed steps are set to 14 (as they should be) then a DCC system set to 28 or 128 steps will not read the cv's!!!!
SO, set the DCC system to 14 speed steps on address 3 and then write cv29 to a 4.
Now check to see if any cv can be read or set CV 55 to 55 for a reset.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the tips Dan. I've returned the problem porter, and will be getting a newer replacement next week. I'll be referring to your notes then.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well, im know nothing about decoders but I have 3 of these exact locos.
first while they may turn, I have never done this because they don't seem to 'want' to turn.
second, I would pull the motor and see if it runs, etc.

i can tell you all 3 of mine have had factory settings for the smoke unit which were full track voltage and not stepped down to 5 volts.

these are the best of the porters LGB ever produced imho.

i don't know if this is too simple, but i would also double check the brass contacts from the skates and wheels to the board. I read what you described and this wouldn't seem to apply, but i seem to recall that the track to board contact.connection was not always right, ie the pick plungers didn't make proper contact with that brass strip-wild guess but i thought i mention my own experience.


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> If the speed steps are set to 14 (as they should be) then a DCC system set to 28 or 128 steps will not read the cv's!!!!


 Sorry - don't agree with that statement. The speed steps setting is totally unrelated to the ability to read or write CVs on a programming track. It has no bearing on how a decoder responds to programming.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

exactly.. I read Dan's post and said "woah, he's on the programming track already, just set cv29... furthermore when on the programming track, there is no concept of choosing an address or speed steps because you cannot run the loco while the programming track is active (service mode).

I'm posting this not to point out your error Dan, but to avoid confusion on expectations of what is possible in service mode.

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Steve, yes, I did check the continuity from skates to the board, and checked seating of all jacks. No good.
But, it's all porters under the bridge at this point, because UPS is gonna deliver the replacement loco later this afternoon. I'm glad to hear you say they're good quality.

Thanks for all the further info guys, I really appreciate it. More later...

[edit]

Wow, the new porter runs like a champ! I tried DC mode first, ran great. Then I put it on the programming track, and the NCE system read the mfgr code, the decoder version and the address. I left it all as-is, and -- on DCC, with loco #3 selected -- it ran great!

The lights tend to only come on while the loco is running, and only on every other "click" of the speed thumbwheel. So, more work there, but how cool! Great price ($170 on ebay), practically new (unused stickers, smoke fluid, literature, no broken or bent parts), AND a decoder pre-installed. And, a prototype of one of these ran at a mill served by the V&T. So I'm thrilled with this little guy!

Thanks for all your help guys!
===>Cliffy


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry Greg but I have had more than one LGB MTS engine react as I have stated.
IF everything works for you without doing what I mentioned that is GREAT.

However when troubleshooting issues we find things can be different and I gave what worked on what seemed to be non working engine's. 

When an engine is 'dead' I always check for motor and any lights or sound to be working before I try to resolve issues.


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