# Wierd Problem with Aristo 5471 Train Engineer



## Industrialmodels (Nov 19, 2012)

Hey guys
I hope someone can help. I recently picked up 2 new Aristo 5471's to be used with my MRC Power G (10 amps). For some reason when I set up a train with more than one unit (3 units), the system will only put out a small amount of power as I apply the throttle. The green "code" signal light comes on initially as it recieves the throttle commands but after a couple of seconds and a little bit of power released by the reciever, the green light begins to flash eratically then goes out. It won't allow me to apply any more power to the track though my Power G has plenty more to give. I disconnected the Aristo receiver and ran the wires directly to the track and there is no problem or shorts. More than enough power to run 3 units and a long train. I am running in simple DC mode with no bells and whistles. Fresh batteries in the hand held transmitter units. Both reciever units have the same problem by the way. Seems to be the recievers not releasing power to the rails. 
If this system is junk, who makes the Cadillac of remote control systems for use on my DC pike. This is a big railroad and remote is a must. 
Thanks in advance!
Don


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Is the MRC unit putting out pulsed DC? This would cause problems with the aristo receivers. 
Also, does the MRC unit put out more than 24 volts when first turned on? This can cause problems also. 
which 5471? the older metal case was only 3.5 amps, new plastic case was the 10 amp version.


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## Industrialmodels (Nov 19, 2012)

Hi Dan
Thanks for the response. No this is an MRC Power G which puts out a max of 10 amps of straight DC...really straight forward power pack. The Aristo's are brand new from Trainworld. They are the 10 amp versions in the plastic boxes- fresh from the factory. They are rated to work well with the MRC unit. 
I was playing with it a little more last night. WHen I take an engine off the track and transmit power to the receiver everything seems to be fine. 
It will let me change direction, stop, accelerate....works like a charm. This tells me the hand held transmitter is sending the right signals. 
As soon as I put an engine on the track, the receiver seems to crap out. It gives only intermitten power....code light flashes irratically the brake and direction change buttons work only intermittenly....it is so bizzare. I tried different locos too with the same problem. Actually the problem seems to be getting worse.....I seem to be able to send less power to the track now. Do you think it is the fuse? I am out of things to try......note, if I hook the power pack directly to the track everything works fine. This isn;t a short in a loco or the track. 

I am fine with tossing the thing in the can. Doubt TW will give me a refund. What other option do I have for remote control. I just need something reliable and made well.... 

Thanks in advance
Don


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## Industrialmodels (Nov 19, 2012)

Almost forgot, this is a 10 amp, 22V power pack......


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Don,
I had purchased the Train Engineer Transmitter / Receiver a little while ago from Train World, and the only issue I had was trying to get it linked. Linking is sensitive to transmitter / receiver proximity if too close to one another. Aside from that, after several trial and error attempted methods to link it, it has worked OK ever since.

The system I got came with a cable having a nylon type connector for interfacing with a power source and a separate cable containing a fuse holder in one of its leads for connecting the Receiver output to the track.


I assume you are operating the Receiver in "Linear" mode (DC output) with the Linear / PWC slide switch set to Linear - though this should not matter.

The initial post indicates you had the problem with more than one loco on the track.
A later post indicates "WHen I take an engine off the track and transmit power to the receiver everything seems to be fine."

First some questions:

1) To clarify, will the receiver operate correctly with one or two locos on the track, or did something change and no locos on the track only allow the Receiver to seemingly respond correctly - as indicated by its status light?

2) Specifically, what loco brand and models are you using?

3) Are you using the optional 12 v dc fan? 

4) How close are you operating the transmitter to receiver (Are both the receiver and transmitter's antennas fully extended? (The Transmitter has a telescopic antenna; the receiver has a wire factory rolled up - it should be fully extend.)


Speculative possibilities:

Given your descriptions thus far of the Receiver lamp working then becoming erratic under load,
I can speculate that the receiver may be starved of power under load when the locos are on the track - irrespective of the MRC power supply: 

1) There is an on / off slide switch on the Receiver. If it is not fully positioned correctly - or its contacts are oxidized / dirty, this may cause a voltage drop at the Receiver input when under load. Try and actuate the switch back and forth several times and see what happens.

3) Another possibility is the automotive ATC type blade fuse (10 amp rated) used in the Receiver may be making a poor connectivity where it is inserted into the Receiver contacts. Try to reseat the blade fuse (remove & replace) to see what happens.

4) Are you using the optional 12 v DC fan on top of the receiver? This is intended to cool the Receiver electronics for high current loads. For example, my Aristo GP 40s can draw about 2 amps each. So 4 units can draw about 8 amps DC so I use the fan otherwise the Receiver may shut down.

5) By measuring, check with a voltmeter to see if approx. 12 V DC is present at the screw terminals meant for the optional fan - before and after loading the receiver with more than one loco. If the measured voltage is notably low, or not at all, this is a clue that the Receiver connections could be poor.

6) By measuring, check that the MRC connections right at the Receiver are good. Use a voltmeter across the Receiver wires near where the wires go into it to see if the MRC voltage (you indicate 22 volts) delivered to the Receiver is maintained at a fairly constant level. (You can use needles to poke thru insulation to connect the meter to). The voltage check must be done when more than the one loco is put on the track as you transmit an increase in speed. If the level notably drops then the physical connections like plug contacts, terminals , etc. or internal Receiver connections are suspect.

-Ted


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

What size wire did you use? 14 gage or better is needed for these trains. 
I use the outdoor low voltage wiring as this wire is weather proof and has UV protection for outdoor use.


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## Industrialmodels (Nov 19, 2012)

Morning Ted 
Thanks for your thoughtful response. You mentioned the "receiver seemed starved for power" and that struck a chord. Thats precisely how it was acting. I went back and did all of the power checking measures you described and that solved the problem. I believe it was the connection to the Power G that was the issue. I re-seated those against the posts and that seemed solved the problem. 
Ted, why does the power chord from the recieved to the track have a fuse in it? 
Special thanks to Dan and Stan as well who were kind enough to post and call. 
Best, 
Don


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Don,
It's gratifying to have your feedback and know that I was able to guesstimate the problem areas and help.

As to the purpose of the fuse in one of the power leads between the Receiver and track, I can speculate that it provides added protection (fail safe) for the Train/s on the track as well as the Receiver. 
In this regard, the Receiver has the ATC blade fuse on its input side, so maybe a condition could happen where it won't respond (blow) quick enough compared to the Receiver's output side. For example, the output side electronics may have a large filter capacitor. Since it is added cost for Aristo-Craft to provide the fused lead, I suspect they got returned Receivers (or locos) that suffered damage and maybe attributed it to the response issue.

Another reason maybe to protect the train/s on the track that draw notably less current (worst case) with respect to what the Receiver can deliver (~10 amps) - in that the user can choose a lesser value amp fuse to put in the lead to the track than the factory supplied 10 amp fuse. Of course, the user would have to be cognizant of what the a train may demand in the way of worst case current when selecting the fuse value.

Thank you,
-Ted


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Another issue with the Aristocraft receiver is when you have 2 units feeding tracks where a train can cross between the power from the 2 units that a short can occur and when using a common power pack, this short will blow the mosfets. 

Note that electronic circuits can fry long before a fuse can blow!!!! Fuses take time to melt, integrated circuits fry instantly. 

I use separate power supplies for my receivers to keep this from happening.


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