# SRRL or T&W



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i am still debating whether to letter the tender for the #24 for the S.R.&R.L., or the T.&W.R.R.

What do you guys think?

BTW tomorrow is my b-day (i turn 14)


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

S.R.& R.L. for sure - it will always have a longer heritage than the T.&W.R.R. and anyway - I would have thought you'd want to maintain the authenticity of the model of the real thing. 

BTW - Happy BD - YAY!!!!!!


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I say to letter her up for Sandy River has she should be, then do the Ruby for T&W. Mike


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

As you've already done the Ruby as a memorial engine for Tom, I think you should do the #24 as the T & W RR, and Happy Birthday!


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

It's your Railroad, letter it however you want. My Father worked for the Southern Pacific for 35 years. I have a Cheaney 24 ton Shay that I logo'ed Southern Pacific. To my knowledge, The SP never ran any Shays. Like I said, who cares..........It's my Railroad.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate;

I'm probably the wrong person to answer, as both of my railroad names are fictitious. I have been doing that since I was your age and my American Flyer layout had the grandiose name, United Transcontinental Railroad. It was a fine name until I started lettering locomotives and cars with all that verbiage. Later I took an interest in British OO equipment and named the railway the Far Tottering & Oyster Creek Railway (a take off on the railway cartoons of Roland Emmett).

Since my family name is Swiss, one of my current railroads is called the Geneva & New Bern Railroad. It was supposedly built by homesick Swiss immigrants who settled in the Rocky Mountains (and of course, discovered rich veins of gold and silver ore). My other railroad is not even in this world, I love the writings of J. R. R. Tolkein, so the Brandywine & Gondor Railroad exists in the Fourth Age of Middle Earth. (Well, at least that totally thwarts rivet counters!)

So as some others have said, "It's your railroad, Have at it."

But above all else, have fun,
David Meashey


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I was thinking on the tribute engine, the Ruby, I believe you put the name on the cab sides. You could put the T&W logo/name on the side tanks where the number "1" is from the factory. If you do reletter the #24, Have Stan Cederleaf do up decals for you so it looks really nice and professional. If you cannot or do not know how to do water slide decals, practice on something else first. I nice first rate job on your #24 will make you proud to show her off at steamups. Wish I lived closer, I could help you with the relettring of the tender. I just did my Ruby up for my MRCC so it can pull my special passenger train. Mike


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Since it's not already lettered (apart from the number anyway), you could go either way. If you go with decals or dry transfers/vinyl it's pretty easy to strip the lettering off at a later date if you decide you want to change it. 

My railroad has a name, the Shawsheen Valley Railway, which will eventually be applied to more generic models like my Accucraft Dora and Wuhu Porter, but things like my Accucraft K-27 and EBT Mikado will keep their original lettering. I'm not sure what I would do with an unlettered Sandy River 24 if I had one, it's not really an accurate Sandy River engine on gauge one track anyway, so I'd be pretty tempted to go with my own roadname personally.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

The stock Roundhouse decals are dry transfer. So they come off easily and are not clear coated


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Happy #14 today Nate. In another 10 years you might want to try this engine on for size. Your SRRL #24 on steroids!



















3-3/4 inches per foot scale. Runs on 7-1/2 inch gauge track. A little over 1/3 scale!

The locomotive in the background is a 1-1/2 inch, 1/8th scale lumber company mallet.

Just a "birthday thought" for you today. Have a good one.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Must.... Resist........

That's just too flippin' cool, Gary! 

Nate, if you see yourself building a fleet of locos and equipment around the theme of the T&W, then definitely letter it for the T&W. One of the aspects I've come to enjoy about modeling a freelance railroad is developing the backstory behind it and each of the pieces on the roster. 

Later,

K


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Gary Armitstead said:


> Happy #14 today Nate. In another 10 years you might want to try this engine on for size. Your SRRL #24 on steroids!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am picking my jaw up off the floor


..if we sold all our o gauge stuff, we could probably buy one of those... just another thought...

gary, little engines has that on their website, but there is only a few parts?? plus they look REALLY rough. where's the boiler, tender, cab, frame, axles, valve gear, trucks, ect?


those are probably dumb questions, as i dont know much about the bigger stuff like that, other than I WANT ONE!


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate,

Little Engines does nothing with 3 3/4" scale. Only 1 and 1.5" scale. Mike supplies raw castings and plans. You build and obtain the rest of the materials and parts.

As to getting a #24 in that size be prepared to trade in more than your O scale stuff, add on top of that your parents house. A DRGW K36 in 2.5" scale is over 200k


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

A ;little info for Nate and Jason........the #24 locomotive castings are sold "rough only"......you do the machining . Steve Alley, owner of Allen Models of Nevada, is the one offering these castings. The castings you see in his website will cost around $4200. The #8 engine shown in the shop is a freelance loco built using Steve's castings. 
https://allenmodels.com/

Click on the photo of the #24 engine and you can see the castings offered and the prices.

Notice the automobile lift rack that stores the loco ONLY. No tender attached. That really gives you a size comparison to an automobile. Nate, when you get into locomotives of this size, it is recommended that you have a shop with the mills and lathes you need to machine these castings and some experience as a machinist hobbyist. "Deep pockets" are also somewhat recommended .. Jason, these locomotives are NOT anywhere near $200K. Tom Miller recently sold one of two of his 2-1/2 K36's for $165,000 and his 1.6" scale Big Boy sold for $245,000 and that engine was built by a museum model making company (Severn-Lamb in England). Click this link and scroll down to the K36 and the Big Boy SOLD prices. 
http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/6_Miller/index.htm#Reefer

I would say that the #24 engine could be built for under $75,000 IF you did the machining yourself and capable of having some of the other castings done by yourself. Lots of pattern-making experience needed! The boiler for one of these would probably be in the "neighborhood" of $15,000. Roll Models Inc., here in California makes 3-3/4 scale moguls and Prairie's "out the door/finished" for about $75,000 right now. When you get into these "Grand Scale" models, they are usually the high-end clients.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary, Yes I am aware of the costs. My friend has a set of the 24 castings and some waterjet parts. Not much is actually done so far on starting.

As to the K36, get a quote from Severn Valley. he sold it used for 165. Original asking was 225k. I'm sure he has more into it also


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

We have about $17,000 (probably more) worth of O scale. that would pay for an engine, tender, and 2 passenger cars. 

http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/6_Michaels/index.htm#Mogul


















Best of all, they are 7.25" gauge, so they would run at PLS.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Kovacjr said:


> Gary, Yes I am aware of the costs. My friend has a set of the 24 castings and some waterjet parts. Not much is actually done so far on starting.
> 
> As to the K36, get a quote from Severn Valley. he sold it used for 165. Original asking was 225k. I'm sure he has more into it also


Yeah, the K36 WAS used......I actually was involved in that building project about 25 years ago when Tom first proposed this idea. Originally there were 8 members signed in to build. As with most of these projects, folks drop out pretty quickly when they see the amount of time and money will be involved. I dropped out a couple of years after it was started because I was running out of time building my 1-1/2 inch Gene Allen ten-wheeler and lots of rolling stock for it. With working full-time, raising three kids and buying a home, reality sets in pretty quickly. Unless you have abundant financial resources, there are only very few that can take something like this on. If I remember correctly, Tom was asking about $20,000 up front from each member just to begin the build.

As to the selling price of the used K36 and the Big Boy, the person who bought the Big Boy "stole it" for $245,000 . Very early on in the build of that engine at Severn-Lamb (circa 1980), there was a massive fire in the shop. Many of the one-of-a-kind wood patterns for the BB were destroyed. I heard one price given for the patterns for the tender trucks (centipede trucks) alone was in the $15,000-$20,000 range (1980 dollars!). I'm sure that BB was in the many hundreds of thousands of dollars when it was finally delivered to Tom in 1983 or so. When you mentioned Severn Valley, did you mean Severn-Lamb or has the name changed? Anyway, when you contract those folks to do your build, YOU don't ask "how much" , you just say yes. It's a whole " 'nother world".


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

gary, whaddaya think of that (allen?) mogul i posted above? the paint is hideous, but that can be changed. is it a good price? also its not too far away.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> We have about $17,000 (probably more) worth of O scale. that would pay for an engine, tender, and 2 passenger cars.
> 
> http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/6_Michaels/index.htm#Mogul
> 
> ...


Nate, 
Looks like the seller has dropped the price down from $22K to $16K. That is a very fair price for the engine and the rolling stock involved. You COULD go pick up the engine and rolling stock and drive it back to Pennsylvania and save a "small fortune" in crating and shipping. That is a Bob Harper mogul. predecessor to Allen moguls and ten wheelers. I believe Bob was a machinist who worked for Irene Lewis at Little Engines when I first started my 1" 0-4-0 tank engine in 1956. They are very good engines and steam well. Strong pullers and real workhorses at most club tracks. Easy to maintain and repair. Setting the timing.......not so easy......because of the Stephenson valve gear. Hard to access the eccentrics! You would be more than happy with this engine. Just need to take a very knowledgeable live steamer with you to look at it.....they would spot problems with the engine, if any were there. See when the boiler was last certified and steamed. New boilers can get pricey......about $5000 for one for the mogul (steel boiler, copper flues).

I think we've hijacked your thread long enough......but you never know when the "bug" will hit you and you decide to go bigger and actually "ride" your locomotive. Your not too young right now. 

One "little problem" might be worth noting though......your parents will lose their garage. This larger stuff will eat up garage space very quickly .


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

gary, i could always regauge my #24 to 7 1/2 inch LOL


would look a little odd though....



I am happy with my g scale engines for now

but i promise my self SOME DAY i WILL have one of them.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> We have about $17,000 (probably more) worth of O scale. that would pay for an engine, tender, and 2 passenger cars.
> 
> http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/6_Michaels/index.htm#Mogul
> 
> ...


Nate
When you go to getting bids or offers on your current layout, I think you will be suprised at what it is really worth.
Remeber what you are paying for some of your g gauge stuff. Pennies on the dollar.
My suggestion is you stay with your current hobby and wait until much later to venture into the bigger stuff.
It is okay to dream but do not step into a nightmare.
You think it is hard to transport what you have. Talk to the guys who have the 7 inch stuff and see what they say.
About the loco being lettered. If you remebr what I suggested when I sent her to you. Its your railroad and will be easier to letter with your logo than findiner SRRL rolling stock etc.
Nuff said


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

got to thinking, and i reallized something.

1st, is the engine& tender. so if you get one, you need a track to sit it on and you need a lift to get it into the vehicle and you need space for the lift and track and engine, and you need a vehicle to transport the engine and you need a thingamabobber to put in the vehicle to put the engine on and you need tools to maintain the engine and practically a machine shop and you need to learn how to use these tools, and the when you are taking the engine somewhere you need to have tools to steam up and you need coal and water and you need gallons of steam oil, and you need to learn all the signals and sidings and the layout of the track and the grades and curves all while pulling passengers, and then you have your cars. you need a separate space to keep them and then that takes up space and by now you need a huge trailer to transport them and then you need space at the place you are running to store them.


Jeez,

I think i will stick to g scale for now!!!!!

however, id love to run one some time


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> got to thinking, and i reallized something.
> 
> 1st, is the engine& tender. so if you get one, you need a track to sit it on and you need a lift to get it into the vehicle and you need space for the lift and track and engine, and you need a vehicle to transport the engine and you need a thingamabobber to put in the vehicle to put the engine on and you need tools to maintain the engine and practically a machine shop and you need to learn how to use these tools, and the when you are taking the engine somewhere you need to have tools to steam up and you need coal and water and you need gallons of steam oil, and you need to learn all the signals and sidings and the layout of the track and the grades and curves all while pulling passengers, and then you have your cars. you need a separate space to keep them and then that takes up space and by now you need a huge trailer to transport them and then you need space at the place you are running to store them.
> 
> ...


Nate,
Don't be disheartened......you WILL be able to get into the bigger stuff eventually. You rightfully named all the reasons to NOT get into the riding scale hobby. You were very realistic in naming all the things you need to have to participate: storage space and lots of it, storage racks and lifting racks (this stuff is heavy and bulky), a machine shop with a lathe and mill, some machining experience and all the incidental precision measuring tools that go hand in hand with building a precision model model steam engine. I was very lucky to be able to build a steam engine at 13. But it took the help of my Dad and Grandpa to train me to use a mill and lathe and the measuring tools to do it right. I have carried this "bug" for over sixty years now and trust me, it NEVER goes away . I'm still buying tools and investing in machinery to make my job easier. The years will go by quickly and if you want to eventually get involved with this larger stuff, then talk to the guys at Pennsylvania Live Steamers. They will like nothing less than to talk you into this hobby. Many of the young kids at Los Angeles Live Steamers teens into their 20's are very much involved with the live steam aspect of the club. Most of the adults now seem to lean toward the ready to run diesels and electrics. One of our young members talked Jay Leno into trying his hand with a 3-3/4 inch scale mogul steamer at last years Spring Meet. Now HE has the "bug" and he's in his late sixties! He had a very "difficult" time trying to wipe the BIG grin off his face after running that engine! AND he has one of the finest car collections in the world.

Just a few photos of the stuff I've collected over the years: 








Even a car as small as a caboose needs a rack!









A double track ten ft. long steel rack to store a reeder, steel gondola, wood gondola and the caboose.









This photo was taken about 2-1/2 years ago when I took delivery of a new 6 ft. long steel gondola from Wisconsin. This car weighs 225 pounds!









This is another steel rack for storage. Eight feet long and used to transfer various engines and rolling stock around the shop and sometimes used for storage. This photo shows the sign painter lettering our restored wood caboose. We don't use decals, dry transfer or vinyl. Hand painted like the prototype .









Our two Baldwin electrics on their own storage racks. The new engine on the left is just about completed now. This photo about 2-1/2 years ago. I had the rack under the new engine built at the same time as the steel gondola.









Another rack we have is for lifting engines and cars into a truck or station wagon.


















This is how we transport both Baldwin electrics and smaller cars such as the caboose and the small wood gondola, over to the Los Angeles Live Steamers track about three miles away.



Then you end up doing THIS!!!!


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