# Track length and power issues



## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

I've recently starting buying more track for my setup. I use mostly it during the Holidays for runs around the Christmas tree. But next year I'm planning on running through the living room, through the dining room, game room and down the hall and back. I hope I don't need to make a reversing double loop, that looks difficult to control. I figure I have a couple hundred of feet of track. I mentioned this to a buddy that does a lot of O Scale, he has an analog setup like me. He's warning me that I could have an issue where the voltage is low at the far end of my track. He mentioned putting the controller at the middle, which isn't really an option since that would be the hallway not near the tree in the living room! I'm wondering if I can get further than O Scale since the LGB track is thicker, so there would be less voltage drop over distance. Like you would with a thicker gauge wire vs a thin one. 

What is the rule of thumb for LGB locomotives working on LGB track at a certain distance from the controller?


Thanks


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You certainly don't need a second controller. At most you might need to run a second pair of wires from you controller to the furthest part of the track. As long as your rail joiners are clean and tight you shouldn't have any problems. If you were running outside, a second set of wires would be strongly recommended.

Set it up with one power connection and if you have a noticeable speed drop add another connection at the far point.


Chuck


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Buy a 10 amp power supply and as mentioned make sure rail clamps are tight. I use Wire ties to hold the track tight when I use around the Christmas tree so that helps also. You may or may not need to add a second set of wires to the far end of the layout. Later RJD


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## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

Putting in some ties to hold the track tight around the tree is a great idea. We must have had 30 derailments last year! Made the mistake of putting candy canes on the back side of the tree - kids were constantly sneaking around back there separating tracks! 

So part of the "how far can you go" question I kinda answered myself. I made a 120foot run just now... you know... testing for next Christmas of course. I had it disconnected on one side of the transformer and was running the loco on the far end of the track just on the other side of the break in the track.


I reconnected and video'd it, take a gander, you folks may enjoy! You can also see my new train station and water tower from Bridge Masters.


http://fifengr.com/lgb/lgb.mp4


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Putting in some ties to hold the track tight around the tree is a great idea. We must have had 30 derailments last year! Made the mistake of putting candy canes on the back side of the tree - kids were constantly sneaking around back there separating tracks!  

Thank you for the unexpected trip back to my childhood. "It must have been the elves who ate 'em, Mom!" 

JackM


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 12 Feb 2011 02:05 PM 
Buy a 10 amp power supply and as mentioned make sure rail clamps are tight. I use Wire ties to hold the track tight when I use around the Christmas tree so that helps also. You may or may not need to add a second set of wires to the far end of the layout. Later RJD 
What ever would he need with a 10 amp power supply? Length of track doesn't have anything to do with current required.

As Chuck says, "Set it up with one power connection and if you have a noticeable speed drop add another connection at the far point."

Thanks for the trip 'round your track.


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## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

Yeah. Current is more about how many trains you're running at once. Maximum track length is more resistance in the rails and voltage drop right? I suppose if you really wanted to go on a long rail ride, you could send the locomotive off at 12-16v and start increasing to 100v or whatever it takes at the head end so that by the time the locomotive is a mile away it's still seeing 16v


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Just remember, that unless there is a gap in the track the current goes both ways around the loop. So with 200 feet of track you really only have to worry about the voltage drop over about 100 feet of track.

Chuck


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I have 700' of track out in the gardein and only one feeder and the furthest point is about 350' away from the feeder.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I would say the type of engine you are running might make a difference. I have a couple of loops around the Christmas tree powered by a LGB starter set pack and it runs LGB engines fine but I recently bought a USAT NW2 and since it was too cold out to test it I tried it out inside. The engine ran fine until I tried the smoke unit, no smoke and it really slowed the engine. I have heard that USAT engines use a lot of juice which according to my findings is true. 
At one time I had about 125 feet of track outside using this same starter set LGB power pack with a single connection to track and it ran one engine just fine. 
If your RR setup is similar to what is known as a dogbone you could setup the transformer near the middle and power the 2 seperate tracks that at that point will be very close together. Layout your track and try it like others here have suggested.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd:

My guess it that your LGB engines have a single motor, whereas the USAT engine has 2 motors. Two motors plus smoke is a lot for a starter pack to run.


Chuck


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## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

So the general rule is something like...

Clean track, good connections, single engine. 350 feet.

Dirty track, or two engines. 150 feet. 


Double those figures if you're talking about a loop.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I doubt that there are any hard and fast rules. Each layout is different. Start with one and watch the train. You'll know if you need to add more feeders. The rail joiners are more critical that clean track. A bad rail joiner significantly reduces the voltage. If you have a loop the power will still come around from the other side. The problem comes when a second joiner fails. That is why many of us use rail clamps or some other type of screwed fitting or jumper wires to connect our track. Track is a very good conductor and there isn't a lot of voltage drop (resistance) along its length.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you run high current, I run feeders about every 30-40 feet. A small amount of resistance makes a lot more difference when running 10 amps. 

Do what Chuck said, plan to be able add more. 

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

And if/when you add feeders, make sure they will carry the current necessary! I seem to think I remember people complain that adding feeders didn't help, only to find out later that they ran lamp cord which won't handle the current... No wonder it didn't help!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yes that can be a problem, but if the feeder is very short, then it can be of a lesser gauge (of course not so small that the wires heat up and melt the insulation!). 

But 6 inches of lesser gauge wire will have very little impact, for example, 10 gauge "buss" and 14 gauge feeder is ok... back to Ohms law, the voltage "lost" in the feeder is a function of resistance AND current, so the difference in resistance between 6 inches of 14 gauge and 6 inches of 10 gauge is little. 

Now, the difference in 100 feet of 14 gauge and 100 feet of 10 gauge is a lot. 

Thus the whole concept of "buss" and "feeders"... 

There's really no pat answer unless you include the current you are running and really some estimate of the resistance of the rails with the joiners. 

So, back to some rules of thumb, basically go one gauge "bigger" than you think. Run feeders twice as often as you think. You cannot go wrong. 

This is the foundation of your railroad... I know the motivation, more feeders are more cost and work, but this is the wrong place to cut corners. I have too many friends that tried to use too few feeders, and then later concrete work, other improvements made it very difficult to add later... 

Overdo it a bit, you will thank me later for the advice. I'm batting 1000 on this one, believe me. 

Regards, Greg


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