# Track to ground.



## George Thomas (Feb 16, 2008)

Hey guys i am sure this has been ask 1000 times but here it is again. I am about to start laying track I need to know what you all are useing in the ground to hold the track in place. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif


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## GlacierBill (Jan 2, 2008)

I have Aristo Track, it has screws to attach the track to each other, I use Gravity to hold it in place, the problem with attaching track outside is the track expands and contrats.


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## engine 72 (Jan 6, 2008)

Just finished mine this past saturday. I dug a 4" - 5" deep trench filled it with Pavestone rock part 2. Then compacted all in the the trenches with a tamper. I then layed the track on top covered the track with crusher fines for ballast. But since I could not afford rail clams I used wire ties to secure each section of track to itself. Also to comesate for expansion and contrattion I pulled the wire tires not totaly tight. With all of this the track dosn't move an all even with 2 golden retrievers walking all over it.


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## NedsTJ (Apr 4, 2008)

My track is also "floating" in the ballast. I started with a fill of topsoil to within a few inches of my final height, tamped down and compacted into place. I then finished it with crusher fines, again tamped down and leveled. The track was then layed in place on top. More crusher fines were then poured in around the ties and lightly tamped down and the excess brushed off. I find the fines lock in place real nice, especially after they've been wetted down and allowed to try. It's not so that you can't pull it out, but well enough that I'm not afraid of it moving around. As long as the ballast is supported well on the edges, I've not had any trouble with it washing away. 

Edit: You can also try searching this forum for "ballast" or "track support" -- I'm sure you'll come up with (quite a) number of earlier threads!


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I'll agree with the other opinions about laying track. Let it float on crusher fines or screenings, whatever term you would like to use. This is how it's done on the prototype. I've had my track laid in this manner for many years without any problems. I will say this; If you are laying LGB track the original equipment railjoiners will hold up fine. AristoCraft joiners don't hold up too long. A couple of years and I've seen them splitting. Also, if you are running with track power, solder jumper wires across each rail joint. It's alittle painfull to do, but will more than be worth the effort, BIG TIME.


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to leaven the loaf so to speak, I will present a different view. 

I lay my track on a firm roadbed made either in a ladder method or as solid pressure treated 2x6. The track is firmly fastened to this roadbed so it cannot move. 

A few explanatory notes and reasons. I use battery power or live steam so am unconcerned with electrical continuity. I also use aluminum code 215 Llagas Creek track - this is light enough to hand bend curves without difficulty. The rail expansion in the heat is taken up by leaving a small space at the end of each piece of flextrack and by spiking each twelfth tie through the tie ends, the rail slides easily on expansion without twisting the ties. 

The advantages of this method are obvious - the best looking smoothest track at the lowest cost ... combined with an almost maintenance free life once installed. I can lay this track exactly the same as I lay HO track inside even to the point of using my railnippers to easily and quickly cut the rails. Lastly, no back breaking labour to dig trenches or spread heavy crusher fines. 

Regards ... Doug


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

At the Chicago Botanic, the track is screwed down to treated 2 by 6's. 

No ballast. 

No switches. 

Don't step on the track.


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

Gravity 
So far, it has worked. None of it has floated off into space.


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I have pictures on my web site showing the use of floating ballast and patio tie down edging as a border to contain the ballast. Go to www.ckgscale.com and view the CHANGES page. Regards, Dennis.


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

George, your profile doesn't show where you are located so it ishard to definately say which is best for your climate. Here in southern Texas we have a slight problem with a hot sun and track expansion. I've tried several methods over the years but all my track now floats in the ballast. I have a couple of tall and heavy narrow gauge engines that are very sensitive to the quality of the track work and they definately like the free floating ballast the best.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I dug a 4-5 inch trench and then put crusher fines down. then I tamped it down real good. Once it is packed I put the track on top and used more crusher fines. I brushed it around and then wet it real good. It holds very well. It even held up to some heavy rains. I use the aristo with the joiners privided and have had no problems. Instead of soldering jumper wires, (I can not soder for anything) I took copper wire and at the bottom of the aristo tracks there are screws that hold the ties to the rails. I formed a small loop on either end of the copper wire. I took the screws from under the track and put the screw back in but through the loop on the copper wire. Do this for each section. It works great no soldering and once the balast is down you cant see the wire under the track.


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## VillageRail (Apr 25, 2008)

My first loop was done half raised on lumber, with ties screwed down. The rest floats on the ballast. I love the realistic look on the ground with ballast, but its a lot more work. We have a number of flowering "weeds" that have naturalized and taken over. I'm constantly pulling them out. As long as I keep replacing ballast each year the track can be walked on without moving. 

I am now doing raised track on 2x6 boards. The first one I completed has been backfilled on some parts up to track level. Other sections are up to 18" above ground. I have been debating for about 6 months wether to add ballast to the track. I know it will look better, but I'm afraid I will just have to keep replacing ballest on the raised sections after rain erosion. The previously mentioned loop uses siding to keep the ballast in on the raised sections. 

Paul


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I use the ladder method. Floating it never worked for me, the ballast was always washing out and kids would step on it, accidently kick it, etc 

You can see some pictures on my website 

I'm waiting to see ow it handles hot summer days, but so far no problems


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## multiplealarm (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey George. 
My track has been in for two years now. It just floats on my ballast which is course granite sand. I haven't had a problem yet and I get alot of direct sun until late afternoon. 
If I remember correctly you are from the Columbus, Georgia area. Since we are so close I don't believe you will have any problems. 
Jeff 
Tallapoosa and Southern RR


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Mine RR is at ground level. I can still bend and kneel down and get up again (just about) /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 

The only place the track is secured is on the approach to a bridge - don't want the locos colliding with the parapets - everywhere else it is loose laid and rests, prototypically, on the ballast. For the most part the ballast is restrained by the terrain or timber. It has been down two years and apart from a little replacement ballast little maintenance has been needed.


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## George Thomas (Feb 16, 2008)

Well guys i am going with the floating system. I live in GA and the heat here is something to die from. I have got to build up one side of my layout as the place i am putting it is on uneven ground. So i am working on that this weekend if it don't rain here. Thanks for all the reply and help. I will be back with more Q in need of answers.


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

George, 
Do it like the big boys and let it float. You don't find real RR's securing their track. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/satisfied.gif 
Regards, 
Mark


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

I tried floating it for two years. The first year I thought it was great. The second year I needed a lot of ballast work to keep the track level. This year I again have to rework most of the layout due to uneven ballast causing uneven track. OK for small locos but not for the bigger ones. 
I don't buy the idea that the real RRs float there track so we G guys can float ours. My dog can't move the tracks down the street but she sure can move mine!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Ward H on 05/10/2008 5:10 AM

I tried floating it for two years. The first year I thought it was great. The second year I needed a lot of ballast work to keep the track level. This year I again have to rework most of the layout due to uneven ballast causing uneven track._ OK for small locos but not for the bigger ones. I don't buy the idea that the real RRs float there track so we G guys can float ours._[/b] My dog can't move the tracks down the street but she sure can move mind!


I have to agree. The logic isn't there. The relative weight _and_ massive size of _ real_ track practically guarantees it won't go anywhere except in the event of a major flood or earthquake. But even the heaviest large-scale track cannot stand up to what man or nature is capable of inflicting upon it. It _will_ move over time--and most likely not all that long a time. 



Because all of my track is elevated, I have it screwed down onto 2 X 6 treated wood (I see I am hardly alone in this) and spaced for expansion. It is the flexible aluminum Llagas track of the type Doug is using. But even when I eventually build my ground-level layout I plan to attach it in place in a similar fashion.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Alot of methods is based on where your location is and conditions. I have only one belief but that works for me. 
These are toy trains outside with real elements.


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## VillageRail (Apr 25, 2008)

It's one thing to build a railroad and then add a garden. It's quite another to build a railroad over an existing garden. My first dog leg loop was placed right in the middle of a spot where a heavy flower garden has been for years. The rain has been well above average over the last month, and there are flowers coming up everywhere in the tracks. A couple sections were completely covered in about two weeks. Right where the new loop is planned to go through. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif 

Paul


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I ahv the same issue--I added a train to an existing garden. It's definitely better to plan the whole thing, garden and track, at once. My wife and I are looking at it as a challenge 

My goal is to partly have the railroad disappear into the garden--I'm trying to make it less obvious and ore surprising. So if it vanishes into a clump of flowers I'm happy. We have a few sections where we aim for more realism, with plants scaled to fit.


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## VillageRail (Apr 25, 2008)

Since the last post, the old loop has now completely disappeared in the flowers. I've decided to elevate the new line under construction. Glad I didn't start a month ago, when it was going to be at ground level. 

Paul


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Even tho the 1 to 1 RR track floats its prone to the same problems we face in the garden RR. Rains will wash ballast away, sun will heat the track and cause sun kinks, cold weather will beak rails or cause joints to pull apart. So you are basically fighting the same elements. Just depends if your up to the challenge. I 'am and that just part of Railroading. All my track is floating and been in place 5 years with no ill effects. Little ballast once in a while and cross level the track. Seeing how I spent 45 years in the maint of railroad track all the knowledge is put to task. Later RJD


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## VillageRail (Apr 25, 2008)

RJD, 

That puts you about 45 years ahead of the rest of us on the experience scale.  

Paul


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## Joe McGarry (Jan 4, 2008)

I decided to build my RR through the existing landscaping that came with the house. It's sort of a challenge to make the track fit the existing shrubs. So far I've got the elevated portion of a loop along the perimiter of the fence. Still have a lot of track laying to do, but so far so good. As for weeds and native plants coming up we put down weed cloth and give the whole area a dose of pre emergent weed killer (Preen) every six months. 

I'm using redwood 2x6's for the elevated roadbed and some compacted dirt at the ends of the elevated sections. The elevated track is just floating in ballast with a little diluted Tite-Bond III along the edge of the ballast. The level track will be on a gravel base floating in ballast. We get a lot of sun here and often over 100f. temps in summer. The ballast allows the track a little wiggle room for expansion. So far no major problems except I may put an expansion joint in the long straight along the back fence. I'm trying to build scenery as I go. So far the track and roadbed is getting done faster than the scenery.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, 

I'm designing an elevated track for my yard now, following a fence line. I would really like to see more photos of what you have done.


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## Kyle's Dad (Jun 24, 2008)

I just went through the posts on this thread, some was very useful for thought, I have to deal with expansive soil so, floating might be worth a try. As I am in the planning stages, I am looking for advice on minimum radii for curves and turnouts. The project is for my son who likes Large steam power, of the 4-8-4 variety. I was given some modest LGB equipment which I will use for testing but, I know I better plan for the big locomotives, and probable long passenger cars that my son admires. It does not help that his favorite locomotive is the 4449. My location is Southern California. Thanks in advance.


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## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

I live in the Central Valley and after much research decided to go with a concrete sub-roadbed with Aristo track screwed in every three to four feet. It was installed last August and I haven't had any issues with the track. I put ballast in between the rails more for look than anything. I am happy with it especially since my 21 month old likes to jump on the raised bed and help me run the switches and generally cheer the train on. He, and I can walk on the rails without fear of damage. 

I have mostly 10' radius and my Connie (much smaller than what you are planning) has no problem with it. My guess would be nothing less than this for you. 

Good luck!! 

Richard


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## Skip (Jan 2, 2008)

I use 3 different methods depending on the area: floated in ballast, mounted of 5/4 x 6 pressure treated and mounted on 2x4 steel channel over an area of lawn. Curves in the latter are made of short sections of curved ladder frame. 

Of the three, the steel mounted has been the most stable. I primed and painted the galvanized channel before mounting the track. The track is anchored by sheet metal screws periodically as needed. This is noisier than wood plank, but only by a little bit. 

The least satisfactory method has been the wood mounted. The planks are floated on bricks above ground and underfilled with 3/4 clear stone, but I've had to go through several boards to get the number I need that don't warp. When adding new track to this method I set the selected planks out for a month or so to see what they'll do, and use the ones that seem to behave. What doesn't, about half of what I buy, gets used in various yard projects. I may eventually replace the wood with the steel. 

About 1/2 the line is ballasted floating track. I don't trench it. I clear the route and level the ground as needed, then I use 3/4 clear stone to build the road bed. Then I top it with crusher fines, smooth and level, lay the track, bed it with more fines, then water it in, and correct and back fill as necessary. It requires this backfill several times as the fines settle into the 3/4 stone. Very stable when its done, and the 3/4 stone builds height quickly when needed. The train will pound ballasted track into the ground, creating a wash board effect over a season (you can see the dipsy doodles with the use of a laser level mounted on a flat car), so a bit of maintenance is needed from time to time, usually using a old long thin carving knife to grade the track level (lifting the track), then reseating it. 

Where I have the straight wood runs, I'm thinking eventually I will run ballast (3/4 stone + fines) and set the steel channel, painted an appropriate colour into the fines at grade level. Yes, it eventually will rust, but we're talking years and its easy to replace.


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