# Lighting Question



## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok Gang.... Here's one for ya'


Need to light a few smaller structures and am thinking that light about the size and brightness of a christmas light. Now my question... can you hook them into a low voltage system easily and have them work??? I'm guessing that there is going to have to be some sort of modification to get them to work but I'm not much of a electronics guy so easy will have to come into play./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif


Any help or other ideas will be welcome......


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I've used the 12 volt Christmas refill bulbs okay. LED's would work well also and last longer. Jerry


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I was thinking of using those solar lawn lights and some how stringing some wire from the solar charging unit to each of the buildings, the only problem is, the circuitries only allows the lights to come on at night /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Some black electrical tape over the light sensor makes it night all the time. ;-)


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, but it isn't an elegant solution. There should be a way to by pass that circuit.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Remove the sensor. They are usually high resistance when it is dark and low resistance when it is light so taking it out would make it "dark" all the time (highest resistance).


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I sorta like having the option of having the lights turn on automatically.


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2008)

for the buildings i use the bulbs of the chrismas lightchains.


two ways, that i tried out:


1) just like the cheap chains, connecting plus on minus one after the other and plugging in the 230 volt household outlets. (works for 50 or more bulbs)


2) connecting paralell, plus on plus. hooked to a H0 - Lima transformer.


I prefer the second option, because i can regulate the brightness of the lights.  And with paralell connection it is easyer, to find burnt out bulbs. (being a real scavenger, who does not throw away anything, i allways have enough sparebulbs)


for different light colours (oil-lamps, glowing fire) i use clear white bulbs and paint them with ordinary felt markers.


korm


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

so, in option 1) you are stringing lights in series? (The negative terminal of the first light leads to the positive of the next and so on) 
I don't remember my basic electrical rules, but 20 12 volt bulbs would require 240 volts. 
What are the voltages on the bulbs you are hooking up to 230 volt household current? 
How are you hooking them up? 
In the U.S. we have alternating currents and 230 is two legs of 120 volt, meaning that on a 3 pole connector 2 of the poles are 120 each while the third is neutral. 
are you only using one lege of the 230? Or are you in a country that has different wiring?


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

I have used Christmas lights for all my buildings. I hope you didn't miss the slaes of left over lights last week. I prefer the short 20 light strings for clip-on to wire figures for the front lawn. A string of lights barely costs a $1. First, determine how a string is wired. Short strings of 20 are usually in series; that means each light is connected to the previous and the electricity runs through each to get to the next. This means 120 volts is divided-up by the 20 lights and means each bulb used is 6 volts. You can then cut them up in groups depending upon what voltage you wish to feed. Every 2 lights can be 12 volts. Every 3 lights can be 18 volts. I use groups of 4 which makes 24 volts; however I feed 20 volts from the back of my Bridgewerks transformer. Less voltage means they burn less and provide a warm yellow color. Less voltage means these lights should last a long time. 

Some other long lights strings may be wired in groups of 3 circuits, or a 100 light string may have bulbs which are 1.2 volts. In this case you may cut a string of 10 to get 12 volts. Most of these lights are AC but they may also work on DC. 

*Please Note: I am NOT an electrician or electrical engineer.*


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 01/07/2008 1:36 AM
I sorta like having the option of having the lights turn on automatically.



You are HARD to please!  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif


First you complain that they only work at night, /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


Then you don't like my UNELEGANT solution to simply cover the sensor 


Then you complain that removing the circuit altogether would keep the lights from coming on automatically./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


Okay, ELEGANT solution.../Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/Fck/FCKeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/lightbulb.gif


Get a large liquid crystal display and mount it a few inches above the light sensor,  Attach a computer to the display and write a program that will create a dark spot in the display at the correct location to cast a shadow on the sensor and have the spot track with the sun given: 1) the distance the LCD display is from the sensor, 2) the time of day, 3) the season of the year, 4) the angle the assembly is to the ground and 5) the latitude of the whole shebang.  Then provide an internet connection to the computer so that you can log-on to the computer from anywhere in the world to control (via HTTPS) whether the liquid crystal display is energized or not, so that you can turn on the controlled lights by energizing the display to cause the spot to eclipse the sun, or shut them off by turning off the spot to let the sun shine on the light sensor./Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/Fck/FCKeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/lightbulb.gif


WIll THAT meet yer needs? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif


(tee hee hee hee!) /Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/Fck/FCKeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/wink_smile.gif


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm thinking more in line with by passing the ciruit with a 3 position switch. In the middle position the path to the lights from the circuit would open./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


In one position from the center the ciruit would be by passed completely and the path from the batteries to the lights would be open. In the other position from center, everything would be closed. No power coming from the circuit, or the batteries. 
Not as snazzy as your Charles, but it meets my other requirements: 
1. Must not cost me more than 3 bucks a unit 
2. Doesn't take me hours to do. 
/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif


Thanks for bouncing ideas off n me though,,, got my mind working on the issue /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/doze.gif


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Some of the Malibu systems use a timer with up to four presets.  This is what I have.


archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp


 


Hope this helps.


JimC.


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

JimC,


That is what I have as well running the malibu light I have in the larger structures on my layout however the ones I'm currently working on lighting are much smaller and a malibu light would be too large to install inside. That's why I was hoping to use something like a couple of christmas lights and connect them to the malibu system. That way they would be on the timer with everything else and since I have a 500 watt transformer and timer on the system there shouldn't be any problem adding a bunch on smaller light sets to it.... My only question is will it work or is there something else I will need to do to protect the lights from getting too much power and blowing out constantly?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

rkapuaala: Oh, okay... just a simple 3-position switch, "Off"/"On"/"Automatic", huh?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif


Nah!  That's too simple!  Totally lacking in wizzbang appeal./Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/Fck/FCKeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/broken_heart.gif  And you'd probably void the waranty on the unit by breaking it open to solder onto the circuit board./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*Scott,*


*I used a set of "stick and peel" lights for porch lights and the building flood.  It will hook up directly to the Malibu wiring.  Also, Radio Shack has some 12v 20ma bulbs that can be used with the Malibu transformers.*


*See the pic below and a night pic from the link [in my previous post] to see the effect of the "stick and Peel" lights.  *


*







*


 


*Nothing extra needs to be done to the bulbs for protection.  Mine have burnt every night 365per, for almost four years.  Another alternative is to place a orange or yellow plastic cup over the 4W Malibu bulb.  *


*Scott, are these new buildings you are talking about the ones you got at Marty's?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif*


*JimC.*


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## bob7094 (Jan 3, 2008)

I use a "malibu" style garden light transformer that turns on when it gets dark without a mechanical timer. I put four white Christmas tree bulbs in series in each building. They last for years.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have been buying  xmas lights  during  after X mas sales  for the last  3 years.   Got quite a collection but no  buildings to put them on/in yet.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2008)

_so, in option 1) you are stringing lights in series? (The negative terminal of the first light leads to the positive of the next and so on) 
_
yes, that is, how they come.
i only change the cable lengths as needed and put the bulbs all in one row. (if i got more, than i need, i put the rest below the layout)
as you see below, they come with two blocks of bulbs, seperated after the first bulb 

but i prefer the second option, connecting plus on plus. and hooking them on a spare speedcontroler-transformer. to dim or brighten them as i am pleased.


_I don't remember my basic electrical rules, but 20 12 volt bulbs would require 240 volts. 
What are the voltages on the bulbs you are hooking up to 230 volt household current? 
_

i haven't got the slitest idea, how many watt and volt these bulbs are made for.

_How are you hooking them up? 
_
using the original (green) plug.

_In the U.S. we have alternating currents and 230 is two legs of 120 volt, meaning that on a 3 pole connector 2 of the poles are 120 each while the third is neutral. 
are you only using one lege of the 230? Or are you in a country that has different wiring?

_here we got the european system one plus and one minus =230V. three plus and one minus =380V
we get here every kind of  electric artikles and plugs. adapters and transformers are a must.
in my house i installed everything with an additional third cable, that i connected for grounding to the well. german stile (the white plug on the right)


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott,
The "stick and peel" lights are found here as "grain of wheat" bulbs.www.westportmodelworks.com/other_items.htm  Don't forget the bulbs that are available at Radio Shack.

Hope this helps.
JimC.

Scott, you have a private message.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I have always used Malibu lights in my houses, I vary the wattage for what I need.

But I basically use 4 watt bulbs in the various colors but stick to yellow in my warehouses and white in my houses and shops.

Its' real easy to do, and attaching the buildings to the ground with a bungee cord, then when a bulb needs replaced all you have to do is tip the building back and change the bulb, then set back down!   

And the best part is that it is all run by a timer, either manual set or photo cell control!

The malibu lights are a lot less hassel then other methods....at least for my application!

I have even connected the lights from my Aristo-Craft Victorian Station to the malibu system but the light it emitts is somewhat dull then the malibu lights....might b the brightness some be looking for.


Bubba


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I use the malibu lights also. In some areas I used 3 rope light bulbs in series as I needed to hide the lights in a structure and the rope lights have the mini 5-6 volt bulbs. I stripped the rope with my sheet rock knife and removed all the bulbs. The rope light after Xmas was only $2.00 and gave me lots of bulbs. Sure beats the Radio shack bulb price. 

this year Target had rope lights with bright white LEDs


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pimanjc on 01/07/2008 6:11 PM 

See the pic below and a night pic from the link to see the effect of the "stick and Peel" lights. 

JimC. 

Jim, 

I can't find the link with the night pic. Can you point me to it? 
thanks, 

-Gary-


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

P.S. Goshdarn it, I'm using Firefox rather than Safari so that I could use the message toolbar, but Submit still didn't work. I had to paste my reply into the 'quick reply' field to get it to post! And now the same is true trying to edit to paste in this P.S.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

If you can find them anymore, you can do really cool special effects using the 12 volt Christmas light blinker bulbs.  Use 3-4 along with a regular 12 volt bulb, paint them red/yellow and you have a fire.  

We do this  in our hobo camp (both trash can and wood fires), steam donkey,  mine, and volcanos.  Also, we use painted red blinkers atop high structures, and even have a blinker in our barber pole.

With all of those blinking bulbs on the line, _*ALL*_ bulbs (literally hundreds) become affected at least to some degree.  Essentually, all of the bulbs take on a flicker like a gas light would provide.  People continually ask me how I get this effect.


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

quote ________________________________________________________________________________________
Jim, 

I can't find the link with the night pic. Can you point me to it? 
thanks, 

-Gary-
_______________________________________________________________________________________________
Gary,

The link was given in my first post in this thread.  Here it is again:
archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp

JimC.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Jim! the pix are terrific!


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## CJ Allan (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm just trying to subscribe and follow this topic.........

Some Good Stuff ...... & learnin'  some interesting things to use for my lighting........in a couple months, when I get started .......... 

Hopefully I'll get notified on new posts.........but ain't holdin my breath...........


Thanks......CJ


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## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

My approach to lighting the buildings, etc., on my layout is a merger of the ideas brought out so far in this topic but with an added 'spin'  -   I am using strictly on-board battery power in my locomotives, so that frees up the track to become the perfect extension cord!  Using a couple of old split jaw type couplers, I connect the Malibu output to the rails (don't forget to use the plastic connectors as you would in any track power setup to control the reversing voltage in loops, etc) and then where ever I need 'feeder lines' I again use the split jaw type couplers and run the short lines to the lights.  Some of the feeder lines are then branched to neighboring houses, etc.  I use a variety of light bulbs, ranging from the grain-of-wheat types (for warehouse dock lights, porch lights, sign lights, etc.) to small 12v bayonet bulbs and holders for inside houses and stores.  I get a nice mix of lighting with various hues and brightness.  My best light project involved creating a logging truck from a truck/trailer (eBay find) and then drilling the necessary holes in the cab roof, etc., and wiring it for the cab lights, headlights, and taillights.  I had located some amber, green and red grain-of-wheat lights for that project.    One footnote - the Malibu has enough power capacity to still run a dozen of the normal landscaping lights in addition to my layout items.  Like was mentioned earlier in the postings, it is really neat to look out the kitchen and office windows or sit on the rear porch and view the layout at night.  It puts a whole new perspective into garden railroading.


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok guys I really appreciated all the input on this and have now gotten the how to part taken care of but I'm having problems with installation part. I am using the christmas light method to light most of the buildings but am having a problem coming up with a way to mount the lights in the structures. The ones I'm having the most trouble with are the plastic buildings from Pola and Piko that I have. I have tried black tape but that only holds so long then I end up with lights laying on the ground instead of in the rafters.... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif Any great ideas y'all care to share???? PLEASE!!!!


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

I haven't tried it yet with lighting, but try using Gorilla Tape. That stuff will stick to any surface, including masonry! It is 10 times better than duct tape. 
/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 










Good luck, 

JT


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Tyically, I just use some hot melt glue or Crafter's Goop to glue the light's wire to the inside ceiling of the structure and let the bulb dangle just above the window level. 

Some of my buildings are sealed and on these I drill a hole in the floor and mount the bulb on a piece of hollow plastic tube (Plastruct) pushed up through the floor and glued in place. 

On some Pola structures, I just run a piece of stiff brass wire across the building where the roof is attached to the body and attach the lighing wires to this. 
You've just gotta assess each structure on an individual basis and see what works best in that case.


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

The wires on those Christmas lights are very cheap and will deteriorate after a couple of years if you leave them outside all year long. Been there, tried that.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I find it easiest to just use the Malibu power supply, outdoor low voltage wiring and the posts with 4 watt lamps. 
10 lights come in the kit and the posts keep the houses stable in the wind. 
I once found damaged boxes of Malibu light sets for $10 with all contents intact. 

Also, rope lights have 6 volt grain of wheat incandescent lights in multiple strings. I cut mine open with a sheet rock type knife. 

LED's would be the best for lowest power consumption. power is less than 1/20th of a watt per bulb. (3 volts times .015 amps is .045 watts)


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Your Malibu transformer will light a 14v grain-of-wheat bulb with a nice warm glow.


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## Robert (Jan 2, 2008)

Desertrat 

The lighting job on your tractor trailer is fantastic. 

Robert


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## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Robert - I put some time and a magnifying glass in on that one. Those wires are about as thick as human hair - not sure I would try it again (my dexterity factor seems to be less these days). But, I still look for similar projects. My next one is to put together some lighting for the little league ball field being built. Should be done in a couple of weeks if the rain will hold off.


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