# Alco 2 4 4 2 build log



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Somewhere, somehow this engine has got into my brain. It’s a 2-4-4-2 logging Mallet produced by Alco in 1917 and shipped to New Zealand for service with the Taupo Totara Timber Co.
The more I read about it, the more curious I get. 

Can’t shake it, can’t forget it, might as well model it.







(This could take a while..)

A bit of its history:

#7 came out of the Alco Schenectady works as far as I can tell in 1917 – although there is some conflicting info on that. 

Some records list it as ordered in 1907, and ‘imported’ to New Zealand in 1914, but the manufacture date against the builders # is 1917
according to the Alco steam preservation society.










The rumour is that TTT had a bit of trouble paying for the loco, so maybe those dates all have some truth in them. Guess it was a bit far to come to take it back...

Anyhoo, TTT #7 appears to be the only 2-4-4-2 Mallet that Alco ever made, and the only compound semi-articulated loco ever to run in NZ. 

It worked until 1945 when the section of line it was on got taken over by the govt of the day. 
I’ve been told that it had a full boiler rebuild around then as well at A & G Price – builders of the infamous Price 16 wheeler locos.






















It was parked up soon after the govt took it over, and finally sold for scrap in 1956. 
The heavens must have been smiling on #7, low scrap metal prices meant it never got cut up, and it was purchased by the Auckland Railway Enthusiasts Society 
in 1959 for a ‘reasonable sum’ and stored on display in Putararu until 1975. 










It was then sold to Glenbrook Vintage Railway in Auckland, and renumbered as #4. It ran for around 10 yrs I believe before being parked up again needing cylinder work. 

Here’s a shot of it doing passenger service on the GVR.










At the moment it’s in the storage sheds at GVR waiting restoration – at least I hope its still there ‘cause I’m heading up in Sept to get some photos!

Looking forward to bringing this puppy to life in 1:20.

Cheers
Neil


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's a great prototype and the fact that you have so much history on it makes it even better. What will you use for drive trains


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Will these help? I saved them when building my Mallet, then went the Baldwin route. 

























































Serviceable tender with booster could be easily fabricated using a LGB power tender and a different shell- something similar to this


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Great, thanks for those Mik, all input appreciated. I had found the Jon Davis drawing - thats what started me on thinking I may be able build it. I've been working up some scale drawings based on that one and another set I got sent. 

Lownote - good Q. I want to capture the overall shape of the loco and getting the right wheelbases was one of the main starting points. The only two I could find that are the right size (60mm) are B'mann Columbia, and the Shay. Shay trucks won because I can get them new.. She's gonna be a slow runner! Ermm, yep, there is that teeny tiny detail of no running gear, but I am attempting to hatch a cunning plan.. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I used Stainz bricks. I've seen them built with Arist 0-4-0s as well. Another option might be B-mann Porter wheels in a custom frame like this fellow did:


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Yeah, I looked pretty hard at the Stainz bricks. Eventually I gave up due to the combo of the price that these things were going for (!!!) and that I have to get them second hand off eBay from the other side of the world. Decided it was too risky in the end. I whipped one of the trucks off my Shay once I found out the wheelbase was bang on and checked it out. 

Having the thing in front of me in bits made it easier to figure out what was possible/do-able with it. 

Thats a nice chassis set up. Maybe there's one of those in my future..


----------



## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

oooooo...I like that loco, going to have to pay close attention to this thread, maybe I can build one in 1:20.3....hmmmmm 

Chris


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I just wish I could remember where I got those pix. The gentleman had quite a good build log. Here's a few more, with apologies:


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

No apologies needed for posting work like that! Superb. I'm not expecting to reach heights like that in this effort.. 10' rule will apply, maybe 5' at a pinch.

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I was apologising to the owner of the loco for forgetting his name. 

Might want to look into laser cutting or photo etching the sideframes... or perhaps just cut out blank ones with a fretsaw and then attach a few details. Shipping on just the aluminum pieces shouldn't be too much (small flat rate box?) 

I have a 'spare' set of B'mann Porter wheels here if you need me to measure them. They are about the size of freight car wheels.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Well,

A steep (re) learning curve on cad, and I've managed to get these done.






























Been chipping away at these for a few months now over winter.. I started with the plan / pic Mik posted above, then came across other plans that added more details (thanks Jonathon). Its just a line tracing done over the top of jpg's with quite a bit of guesswork added but I'm pretty happy with how it came out. I drew the loco at full size, then printed out at 1:20 on A3 paper at work. 


Voila - scale plans!


I'm in the middle of figuring out the rods & valve gear drawings now, and learning quite a bit about Walscherts valve gear in the process.. Its good to learn new stuff.


I can see a couple of challenges looming up (first among the many I guess). The firebox in this loco is below the top of the rear wheels. If the rear chassis needs to pivot like I've seen in most models, and most seem to recommend in archive posts, then theres a clash to figure out. I also want to sneak a speaker into the back end of the loco.. Somehow...







The firebox was the obvious place. Ideas anyone?



Cheers

Neil


----------



## Hamers (May 11, 2009)

Neil, 

The drawings are looking good... what CAD programme are you using? 

Sorry I can't help with the technical stuff not at that level yet... but will keep an eye on your project. 

Nice one 
Andrew


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Greetings,

Welcome to the paradox that is designing a model locomotive. Where do you compromise from the real one to get the model one to work. My suggestion would be to either raise the bottom of the fire box enough to clear the running gear or narrow it so the rear divers can pivot. The main thing is so that you can not see through from one side to the other. If you raise the bottom of the fire box then you will be able to see day light through there, if you narrow it the only way you could tell is by looking at the loco from the cab end and the tender will hide that. The third possibility is to make the rear engine solid and only pivot the front engine just as on the prototype. This possibility would be determined by you track radius. Are you planning on one motor or on having one motor for each engine? This approach might be simpler.


Andre


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

That is one fine project you picked to do. Very interesting. Later RJD


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

HOW prototypical on the chassis do you wanna go? 

Mine has blind nuts glued to the top of the bricks on one end and a bit of brass strap and a hook on the other. A plastic 'bridge' joins them together and forms the bottom of the boiler. The high pressure (rear) engine set only needs to pivot a little bit for R-2 curves, but unless your trackwork is almost dead flat, the front set has to be able to move freely in 2 dimensions (about 2" side to side and 1/4-3/8" up and down, with a little bit of twist thrown in)










In reality, things were a bit more complicated - This is what's left of "Skookum", the first Baldwin 2-4-4-2. 

























































And drawings of the Balwin version of the front sliding boiler support or 'slide bearing'....http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp52/steamnut1917/mallet/DRw_Slide_Bearing.jpg http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp52/steamnut1917/mallet/Drw_Frt_Boiler_Bearing.jpg

The Bachmann wheels for their Porter I mentioned are 1-5/16" in diameter (or about 26-5/8" in 1:20.3) with a 1/4" shaft and are insulated on both sides. 


As for the speaker... what about up in the cab roof?


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Andrew - I did the drawings using AutoCAD 2010. 

Hmm, lots of food for thought.. Thanks for measuring those wheels, they're a bit small - need to be around 1.6" to get 32" drivers in 1:20. 

So, unless something radically changes my mind (never discount that!) I'm heading down the Shay brick path. Is that near the yellow brick road?? I'll let you know if I end up in Oz.. The Shay axles can be quartered or pretty darn close to quarter by slipping the internal gears so thats ok. I've also tracked down some Slater wheelsets from the UK that, with a couple of 10 thou shims and a bit of loctite, will attach to the axle shafts. Tick. 

With these bits (almost) set in stone I can have a good look at the pivoting. Up till now I had pictured both bricks pivoting on their centres - thats not necessary as Miks' photo shows. I re-read Alan Cashs' article in the archives on scratch building a Mallet and he also played around with the chassis pivot points to reduce overhang.. 

Not being able to see through the loco around the firebox area - excellent point. 

So I'm thinking that moving the pivot of the back wheels towards the rear of the brick so it doesn't move very much relative to the loco frame, and raising the firebox a tad so it just overhangs the top of the brick (on the outside) may work. Need to sketch things up and see how it looks. 

Thanks. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Neil,---As to the pivot and firebox issue, LGB, Aristocraft and Rivarossi have all had to address this, and are good working examples. I would not attempt to cut the firebox higher for clearance. Rather I would solidly mount the firebox on the rear pivoting chassis. A cut could be made in the firebox, right under the cab and/or running boards in order to allow for chassis rotation, and that could be disguised by undercab airtanks. ....or I think so, anyway. 

Cheers


----------



## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Depending on the particular engine's design, you might be able to hide a change from chassis mounted to truck mounted parts via the cuts where the firebox would be connected to eh ashpan.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks guys, I'll chuck both those options into the mix. I don't have an R1 constraint, I measured the tightest curve on my railway today at 2.3m dia (7' 8" ish??) so that may give a bit more wriggle room so to speak. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Spent the last few evenings sketching up the options using 6' as the minimum running dia. From there I played around with different pivot points to see what things looked like. Best option was to attach the rear truck above the back axle, and the front truck in the centre.

This is what it looks like on 6' dia, with shay trucks and valve gear in place.










Looks like the tender front needs shortening a bit if I stick to 6' - no surprises there.

And on 10' dia - doesn't look too bad..










Still trying to decide whether to split the firebox or not to get some swing in the rear truck.

I figure I've got two places I can do it, just below the cab, or just below the boiler with another vertical split in front of the cab.










Hiding the cut line will be the tricky part - there's nothing on the original loco there to hide it. The alternative is to raise the firebox by 1 rivet line so the wheels clear but the top of the motor block is hidden so there is no line of sight through. Decisions decisions..

This is a shot of the actual loco firebox & rear wheels - thanks N. Carey of Glenbrook Vintage Railway for sending me some of his spare prints.










Cheers
Neil


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Neil, 

It looks to me as though you could just let the firebox come down between the rear drivers. With the pivot point for the rear truck directly between the drivers, there will be very little side-to-side movement there. As long as the firebox is narrow enough to tolerate the angle of the drivers in a curve, it can fit comfortably between them without needing any kind of horizontal cut. 

Ken


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I see a 2 MAJOR flaws in your drawings.

1. The front wheelset pivoted, but the front cylinders did not. There's no way for the connecting rods and valve gear to absorb that much lateral motion. even if you made them of rubber.

2. The rear wheelset is also constrained by those huge steam supply pipes. Are you going to have them move in curved slots in the running boards, or have a cut (sliding joint) under the running boards or above the cylinders?


As for the firebox question... have you considered simply cutting close clearance reliefs directly behind the wheels? The area in question would be fairly well hidden. 


Model curves make for some truly interesting geometry.





















































































My best suggestion is make it able to negotiate one size smaller curve than those you actually intend to use. Mine WILL go around r-1. It doesn't like it, but it stays on. So it runs well on r-2.... unless there is a steeper vertical change or more twist than I designed for..... the pony truck comes off in 2 places on my layout.... between tweaking the chassis and improving the roadbed I should have that fixed too. Maybe.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Mik. 

Got those 2 bases covered (I hope), just doesn't show up that well in the drawing - and I got lazy and just moved the parts between layers rather than draw the actual fit at this stage. 

Front cyls are attached to the front truck and the steam exhaust pipe which comes out just behind the lead wheels will slide in a slot. I had some other options that were kicked into touch early because that part was just not flying. Nor did I attach the cyls on the front truck in plan view mainly because I was in a rush and it was covered in my head - lazy again). 

There's also a small gap between the steam pipe and the top of the rear cyls - only a mm or so at this stage (restricted vertical movement, not ideal) the slightly thicker line you can see there is actually two. That part hasn't come together yet. I see you stopped at the running boards and put you air tanks just below there. Hmmm. 


Ha ha, that'll teach me not to post drawings without doing a full design review : 0 

Not having air tanks to hide stuff is a pain. I might have to get the TVL management to consider installing them! 

Thanks for the pics - keeps my brain juices moving. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Just a thought.. 

Have you thought about articulating the loco prototypically, with the hinge point between the rear cylinders? That would solve a lot of problems visually and mechanically, and I suspect the engine is short enough to make it work on a 6' curve without too much trouble. Try drawing it that way and see how it loos, maybe. 

Alternately, consider mounting the rear unit rigidly and letting the front unit swivel at the center as you've drawn above. The effective wheelbase would be the distance from the rear axle to the swivel point of the front unit, so take that into consideration when drawing the curves. 

Either way, I think it can be done, and would look a lot better than trying to turn a Mallet into a Mayer


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Ha ha, yes, the Meyer/Mallet point. It would definitely solve the problems at the back. 

I did draw that one early on but I think the front swing was a lot for the exhaust pipe to handle but I didn't detail it out. I'll revisit and attach the front cyls etc so we can see what it sits like. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

PS, its not all lines on paper.. 










I just want to get everything sorted for overseas shopping so I can freight back home in one go.


Cheers
Neil


----------



## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Neil, you are forgetting one important consideration.

You said the pivot for the rear truck was to be directly ABOVE the rear-most axle, which would put it in the firebox.

My suggestions would be to consider mounting the firebox "sheets" directly to teh truck and let the entire firebox swivel under teh boiler/cab assembly.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

No worries, I see where you are coming from. 

My pretty much only reservation on that method is hiding the split line and I'm sure that will work out. I have a trestle front centre of the layout that's at eye level, good for photo ops - and of course the tightest curve happens to be in one of the approaches. Great planning ! : ( Thats why I'm keen to get the best visual outcome. The other approach that's looking good is Miks suggestion to keep the firebox full size and make a small relief around the rear wheel. That also works as the clearances reqd are very small, 2mm sideways between the firebox/brick and 1mm around the wheel. 

I'm re looking at the proto Mallet articulation just to check, having that done 'properly' avoids all the rear issues we've identified incl the separation of the steam pipe to the rear cyls - but it does increase the front overhangs and movement reqd of the front cyl exhaust pipe, plus the front boiler support has to be functional. Not looking too flash at this point I have to say (read more work). 

Will post pics once I've done the design reviews ; ) 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Had an odd thought on the high pressure steam line problem. Would surgical tubing (thin wall silicone type, like they also use to make slingshots) work below the running board? two pins with tubing between would be simple to construct, and it would let things move a little....


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Ok, last drawings I promise - then we can get into the fun cutting and gluing bits.

This is proto Mallet articulation (as I understand it) on a 6' curve. Do-able but the swing at the front means the exhaust has a ways to move, plus just over 1/2" of sideways travel has to be built into the front boiler support (centred above front truck). 










So, unfortunately another Mallet bites the dust and we have a Meyer on our hands. Can't say we didn't try.









I tidied up the main drawings - this is what it looks like on a 6' dia, pivoted over the rear back axle and centre of the front truck.











And on 10' dia. This is most of what I've got so this is the hopefully typical running it'll see.









So, the question of the firebox remains. I sketched up both likely options - attaching the firebox to the brick and having it all swivel, and attaching it to the boiler and swivelling the brick underneath it.











No huge visual difference, but having it attached to the boiler means the rear wheels are actually recessed to the depth of the flange to allow the sideways movement. So my vote is now to attach to the firebox and swing the whole thing.


I can hear some faint 'told ya so's echoing around somewhere..









But I had to test the waters.

Care package from the States is almost ready to ship, need to talk to the folk at GRS and get the wheels ordered! 


Cheers
Neil 


Oh yeah - not a silly idea on the surgical tubing at all. I've started eyeing up an old speargun rubber thats been sitting unused up in the garage. Solid so won't distort in a bend, wonder if paint 'll stick to it. Hmmm. Wonder if it'll be missed! Hmmmmm.


----------



## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 09 Aug 2010 09:01 PM 
I just wish I could remember where I got those pix. The gentleman had quite a good build log. Here's a few more, with apologies: 


I believe these are from Rod Hayward's build log


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Idea on your exhaust. Use brass for the horizontal straight run. 2 pieces telescoped to allow it to self adjust the length as it swings. If you put the telescope joint under the smokebox nobody will see it. 

You're gonna hafta name this thing 'camel'... it's becoming a (iron)horse built by a committee. lol


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Hagen on 26 Aug 2010 04:56 AM 
Posted By Mik on 09 Aug 2010 09:01 PM 
I just wish I could remember where I got those pix. The gentleman had quite a good build log. Here's a few more, with apologies: 


I believe these are from Rod Hayward's build log 
Thank you. And belated HUGE thank you to Mr Hayward for a wonderful build log.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Sorry for no updates, had a few other things to sort out. On with the show..

A quick revisit on the boiler thats already started while I wait for the other parts to arrive. 50mm PVC tube (ID) from the local hardware store was the starting point. OD is a touch under 56mm – close enough for me.

The smokebox is made of the same tube with a section cut out so it fits back inside the main tube. That gives the step down between them as the tube wall thickness. The amount to cut out to make the smokebox fit exactly inside the boiler is the difference between OD & ID, in my case 18.8mm to make a snug fit with no gaps. 

The smokebox extends as far into the boiler as it pokes out so there is a strong physical join and I’m not just relying on glue to hold them together. Here’s a couple of shots shot of the inside taken after it was finished. 

From firebox end









From smokebox end









Next up is a cap for the smokebox. Same thing again for the insert part except there’s no need for a clean join line as nothing shows externally. Once the tube was cut I slipped it into the smokebox to hold it to size, then glued an end piece on.










The tape around the smokebox is holding things together in case the pressure split the recently glued smokebox joint. Then a bit of cutting and sanding to finish.



















Fits nicely. (Sorry, you don’t get to see and hear the bits between the starting square and the finished product. Use your imagination if you must..)










The boiler’s got a larger centre section, unfortunately it’s not concentric to the bits made so far. I made up some ribs to stand off this part from the main tube.

First cut 3 discs to the correct OD for the larger section, then tack glue them on to a scrap piece of tube with the bottoms lined up










Spray the overlap with paint, then remove all three together with a sharp knife.










Then it’s just a matter of carefully cutting them out.. I drilled and pinned the discs and the parts I needed to stop any movement while the cut was made.




















Then glue them in place.










Then I added extra bracing to hold the covering sheet smooth once its on.










Next up is the angled transition sheet between the two. Essentially this is a truncated cone with one side parallel with the boiler base. Lots of triangles and a2+b2=c2 in a spreadsheet gave me line lengths to draw on a flat sheet to make up the curved shape to cut out. 

I made a cut out of paper and test fit it first, then made the real McCoy from 0.5mm styrene. Went together not too bad, I needed to make a few small cuts to close up some gaps that wouldn’t lie flat.










Thats all so far, working on the firebox cutouts at the moment between rattles, will post again once progress is made (and the major mistakes fixed..)

Cheers
Neil


----------



## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

I just got around to reading this thread -- great stuff! A small narrow gauge articulated is something that's been on my long-term list of "someday" projects ever since I got into this, so I'm always interested in seeing how others go about it. I don't think I've ever seen this particular prototype before either, pretty nifty little loco. 

Hope you don't mind, I saved copies of all these pics and drawings for future reference.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Go for it Ray. If you get the urge for more detail I can send you the raw photos and CAD files. 

I'm off to Auckland to photograph it this weekend. Should be fun. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Been following this thread also picking up ideas, still have maybe one more project on my 'to do' list, not this Kiwi monster, but this:


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Spent a good couple of hours crawling over the loco last weekend. Loads of fun. Unfortunately it was in a shed with not much light or room so I couldn't get any (decent) overall shots to share. Lots of detail shots to help the build tho.










Got one thing sorted, build date is Dec 1912 - not much argument to be had on this part now! 











Trucks and detail bits have arrived - MUST get the wheels ordered! (gentle reminder to self..) 


Cheers
Neil


----------



## alcashj94 (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't know how I missed this thread untill now, I did a couple of freelance Mallet's some years ago and wrote up an article which is here on MLS - http://archive.mylargescale.com/articles/articles/mallet/mallet01.asp 
You might find something of use in there. 
Also did one for simple chassis blocks as well - http://archive.mylargescale.com/articles/articles/chassis/ch1_01.asp 

Looking forward to your progress, keep the pictures comming! 

Allan.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Allan. I found your Mallet one a while back when this was the germ of an idea - I've borrowed some of the methods - hope you don't mind. 

Didn't see the chassis write up. Thanks very much, that will help a lot with the leading and trailing wheels, been pondering on those for a while now. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

A couple of posts back I hinted at some stuff ups. Don’t ask me how but the smokebox ended up 6mm too long, and the rear rib about 10mm too far back. Nothing that couldn’t be fixed, but what I learned was that you can measure as many times as you like before you cut - just make sure it’s from the same point each time..! Must get my bung eye recalibrated.

So I’ve cut smoke box down to length, carefully removed the rear rib and reglued it in the right place – AND marked up the datum lines on the drawing that I work from. Rework sucks.

Done a bit more on the back end, I printed out the rear cutout templates on paper, glued them to thin styrene, then marked up the boiler using the BDC line as the reference. 



















The drawings show the rear firebox was on a slight angle, I made the cut carefully on a drop saw at 4 deg off vertical.










Then cut out the firebox clearances with a razor saw.










The firebox sidewalls are made out of 2mm styrene, glued and braced with ribs and 2 layers of flat bits that extend into the boiler tube. I added a horizontal brace at the back to hold the right width as the tube closed up a titch with a section missing. The bottom was sanded flat as this will be the main mount for the cab floor. 



















I started to get a bit paranoid at this point. I tend to lift locos by the cab roof at the back, and realised all the lifting stresses would pass via the cab through these glued joints. I ended up adding some 1/16” pins through the tube and bracing to tie things together a bit better. 



















The first three looked so good I added four more.. I think it’ll help, structural guys please hold back the smirks at my attempts.










I had some difficulty earlier trying to glue the transition cover sheet in place as the flat sheet really wanted to stay that way. I experimented with heating the styrene in boiling water over forms to precurve them but
I always ended up with small flat spots where I clamped the sheets around the form. Here’s one of the main boiler sheets.










After a while I realised I’d get better results using the inside of a tube as the form..

The first attempt for the firebox cover worked wonders for the curved parts, not so flash for the straight bits.










So on the second attempt I clamped a couple of 2mm flat sheets where I needed things to stay straight, then dipped the lot in boiling water for a few secs.














































Came out pretty good.

My wife says she cannot see a steam engine yet.







No imagination.









Rear brick mount next..

Cheers
Neil


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice so far! As for the 'small dimples' thing... I've found automotive spot putty to be my best friend on similar occasions (and when a butt joint won't cooperate).


----------



## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Looking good!


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Well, some 1:1 delays, but finally got some stuff done this week. This is what the rear truck mount ended up looking like.










The top part is made the same way as the smokebox, sized to fit inside the main tube. It’s slightly more than half circumference so it can’t pull out vertically.










The brick got a .064” plate screwed to the top, and a 6mm rod screwed to that from the bottom for the pivot. It looks a bit like this sitting together. 










The bottom of the truck mount has a slight curve in it to allow for a bit of tilting movement of the brick.

I still need to add a brace to stop the front of the truck dropping when the loco gets picked up, and a pin through the 6mm rod to hold the brick in place (as per Alan's Mallet article).










The only fly in the ointment is in attaching this lot into the boiler. I planned to glue and pin it at the lower edge but then I went and put the top cover on the back end of the boiler first. I got saved from having to drill and fill by the boiler wash plugs on the loco. I’ll probably hide the pins behind these. Not the best position but oh well..










Oh yeah, every project needs a new tool ( any excuse really..







) I thought I deserved a scroll saw for this one. Cheap(ish) but will do fine for cutting out the curved parts and hopefully the side rods & valve gear. 










Cheers 
Neil


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

The bricks are finally mounted.










I gave up on pinning the rear mount to the boiler shell when I realised the generator was going to cover any cut and fill blemishes. So a nut and bolt through the top it was.
I’ve mounted a bracket on the rear brick to hold it in place when you pick it up (the front wants to drop down). It rests on a piece of styrene in the boiler.



















The front brick is held in the center. Both bricks are held in place with bent piano wire clips through the pivot rods.



















The wheels have arrived, looking forward to getting them on. 










Having a few issues sorting out some crank pins. The wheelsets came with short (single rod) pins, I ordered a set of long pins but when they arrived they were different threads..







If I can identify the thread in the wheels I may just make something up. 

I need to get that sorted so I can line up the cylinders and valve gear..

Cheers
Neil


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

The new wheels went on the front truck last week. Not as many dramas as I thought it might be.










Turned out the new wheels had the same measurement across the flats as the old shay axles did – 4mm. Only difference was the new wheels needed a square drive end.










After a bit of careful filing..










The centre thread in the axle was the same as the countersunk screw supplied with the wheels which made that part easy as well.

I made up a couple of rough siderods out of 0.064 brass and fitted them in the weekend, so things are slowly moving in the right direction. Some longer brass screws that fit (hopefully) the crankpin holes are on order!










Cheers
Neil


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Lookin good so far!

Ain waiting for parts a bummer? You almost end up checking the mail like a fat lady standing at the oven door yelling "Hurry!"


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Ha ha, you nailed it there. C'mon, c'mon - whats taking so long! 

Bolts DID arrive today, yay for Royal Mail, 6 days from order to the door. My punt on BA threads paid off, 6BA is the culprit. Now I can get some bushings made and work a little on the valve gear. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, Neil, that is a great looking locomotive!! I love reading about your ability to overcome obstacles and make your vision a reality! 

Thank you, can't wait to read more as this beauty comes closer and closer to life!


----------



## Bob Baxter (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's a 2-4-4-2 that I built about 10 years ago. I saw a picture of a 2-4-4-2 and decided to build one "like" it. Searching through my collection of bits and pieces of Bachmann locomotives were two 0-4-0's with the latest (at that time) drive units. I reduced the wheelbase by cutting out a section of the center of the case. This required the shortening of the drive rods which was accomplished with the help of "U" shaped brass strips glued over the stubs of the shortened rods. They have never failed. 








The driving rods were shortened at the crosshead ends.

The Bachmann drive unit was repositioned putting the motor in a vertical position. A frame of styrene and brass was built to hold the motor in place and a brass bar in a U shape was built to rotate on top of the structure. The wings on the bar attach to the underside of the running boards.










The rear unit also swivels the same way. This is the backside view of the front unit. Some of the structure is part of the original B'mann frame. See the "China" mark.










This is the finished product. All this happened before digital photography came into my life so some of the pictures are scanned from prints.











This is a shot of "Pee Wee" running on the Door Hollow Shortline. She runs for many of the hours that the layout is set up at shows. I love to see her in action. She has run flawlessly until the last show when the glue that I used to connect the frame sections decided to come apart. She went back in the box. Back home, it took about an hour to re-engineer the thing so it won't happen again. I just love seeing this loco run. Every wheel on this loco and the tender are collecting current to run the motors.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Warren, it's fun working out things as you go. I just keep telling myself its not rocket science - just plastic and brass bits stuck together. 

Bob, thats a great looking loco. Hope mine comes out looking half as good. It's baby steps for me at the moment as I've never built a loco before. Seeing other builds is great motivation - thanks. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Neil, what thoughts have you given the tender? 











At one point I was going to model a tender something like that one. I figured modifying a LGB power tender would be just the ticket.










I eventually went a different route, and put that one behind my #6. BUT the idea of a 3rd motor and 12 wheel drive was so very tempting. Considering how slippery my front brick is, maybe I should have. Just thought I'd kick it out there as a possible idea.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Not too much detail thought through on the tender yet Mik, that part is still stewing in the pot. The loco is going to be battery powered and since the new wheels don't make contact with the shay wheel pickups a track power switch is moving into touch rapidly. I'm planning to fill the boiler with enough lead shot to balance the loco and get sufficient traction.


The original loco was a woodburner - here's the elevation of its tender.










Since then the GVRy modified it for coal burning and also replaced the rotten sub frame and running gear with standard NZ Railways parts, thats the version shown in Russell Dunns photos.


At this stage I'm thinking I'll build something closer to the original. I've scored an Ebay Annie thats going under the knife to provide detail parts and quite possibly the tender frame.


Cheers
Neil


----------



## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Bob, that's a real sweet loco, thanks for posting the construction pics.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

It’s been a while – but some finally some progress to show! Been working on the valve gear, almost got a first cut together now.

The A.R. side of me took over and I’ve been trying to recreate as close as I can to the prototype..

Crosshead, main & piston rod












Cutting out the expansion link parts












Expansion link test assembled











And some other bits..




























Still need to fab the radius rod & combination lever, then it’ll be time to see how it sits on the brick.

Cheers
Neil


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

You can still SEE that itty bitty stuff? I'f I'mma gonna make metal steam engine parts, it's gotta be something like 3" scale!


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

That's some nice work with the linkage. With that kind of work you could bash 2 live steam Ruby's next time.


----------



## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Wow, that is awesome! Great work!


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Mik, if I take my glasses off, turn on the reading lamp and get real close - its still a blur..







Didn't even know half those scratches & marks existed till I saw the photos!

Thanks Bob & Ray. The build threads you guys post are part of the reason for tackling this build. I'm looking and learning most days on this forum.

Union link v3 went on tonight, now I need to figure out the spacers on the crankpins to get the radius and combination levers to meet at the same place as the the valve rod.









Cheers
Neil 

PS. Totalwrecker, if you read this - I've only snapped 8 scroll saw blades so far.. Hoping to come in well under a gross for the four valve gears sets.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

So, eventually, I got one side of the valve gear together..




























And it even works, sorta.. 

Dont know if the actual movement is correct but it doesn’t bind, and the current draw (using 0 – 300 mA analogue meter) is steady as it spins up. 

Here’s a You Tube vid of it running. 



Need to tidy things up and tweak a few bushings to straighten it up a little but otherwise I’m calling it done. Best thing is I’ve got the parts drawn as built so the other side should be a bit easier going..


One down, three to go!

Cheers Neil


----------



## Hamers (May 11, 2009)

Coming along nicely Neil, impressive brass work. 

keep it up.


----------



## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Great project, impressive build!


----------



## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Great work, especially on the valve gear. I see it runs really smoothly. 
Are you working of any plans for the valve gear? 

Alec.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

"PS. Totalwrecker, if you read this - I've only snapped 8 scroll saw blades so far.. Hoping to come in well under a gross for the four valve gears sets." 

Of course I'm reading along, it's a great and inspiring build! 

A little beeswax on the blade makes a great cutting lube and then you might wear the blade out before it breaks... 

I'm in awe of your skill. 

John


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

John,

Thanks - will try the beeswax. Skill?? You should see the pile of mistakes in the bin..

No plans for the valve gear Alec, I have side on photos of eack truck - used them for figuring the proportions and went from there. I'm sketching it in Autocad as I go.

Had a running day at a club members place today - taped a 9V battery to the truck and snuck in a cheeky lap.. Does this count as first run??


















Cheers
Neil


----------



## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Wow, that is a thing of beauty!


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Had mine out for a run on Saturday. 









Too bad you're halfway around the world, it would be super cool to doublehead them.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Too bad you're halfway around the world, it would be super cool to doublehead them. 

Yeah, that would cool. Looks like a nice day there, we are definitely heading into winter this week. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Hi All,

This project has got a bit bogged down, but the last few weeks have been productive.

The cylinders got a start several months ago – I had to rework some of the valve links once the first version got assembled, bit of tap tap where there shouldn’t have been! 










Here’s a closer shot of the cylinder fronts - I’ve started detailing some of the bits. 










I can’t believe how many scratches and marks the camera is picking up, to give some idea the piston rod was ‘polished’ with 600 grit to make the fit smooth – that’s what is showing up in the shot above. Yes, it still needs a final tidy and polish.









The pilot got a nudge today, since I was off work with that deadly infection known as Man Flu I though the best remedy was to lock myself away.. Wheels, frame and spring came from an Annie, the rest hacked together to best fit. Oh, and a ball point pen drilled out as the spring guide, you can’t see that bit very well since its clear.



















The rods, crosshead & piston rod for the other side of the truck have been finished and fitted, just need to file and assemble the valve gear parts. No photos of those, pretty much the same as what you already see.

Feels like I’m actually making progress now I’ve cracked the details of the valve gear. It was a real stumbling point for a while. Still a bit to go tho eh..










Thanks for looking.

Cheers
Neil


----------



## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Very fine work- Excellent! 

I wouldn't worry too much about the scratches- the real thing has wear and tear! 

Alec.


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Great progress Neil! How did you cut your curved and other odd shaped brass?


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Hey Jim, 

I used a scroll saw. Not really the best as the cutting speed was too fast but it beat doing it by hand. I drew the pieces in CAD, then printed and glued the templates to the brass sheet.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

A bit more progress on the front end..




























This thread is getting a bit photo heavy - may have to start Part II. Stop me if I'm boring anyone.

Cheers
Neil


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

No! No no no...please! Keep posting!!!


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Neil

Start part 2 if you need to, but please don't stop posting about your progress until you get to the "Builder's Photographs", 'cause you sure aren't boring anyone that I can think of.


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Great work, and such a high level of detail. Very nice. What are you creating all of those bolt heads out of? Also, how did you attach the brass rod in the catcher to the styrene? Some type of epoxy? Keep up the great work!


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

No worries, just wondered after a year of blow by blow posting things might be getting a little thin for folks..

Randy, I thought about epoxy but in the end went for a mechanical connection since it's going to bear the brunt of any front enders that happen (I believe in Murphy..). Each bar is tapped for a M1.4 thread at each end, then bolted through the back of the styrene frame. I added a second strip with cutouts for the bolt heads to disguise them a bit. Then I CA'ed Ozark 1/2" NBW castings on top for a bit of visible detail.












The styrene bolt heads are cut from Plastruct .060 hex rod. I set up a jig to cut slices around 1mm thick then chopped up a hundred or so in a few minutes. About 3/4 were useable the rest were too wonky.


Cheers
Neil


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

That should make for a very sturdy front end. I would have been a touch worried about gluing them, so I think you made a wise choice. You are right about Murphy, he is alive and well. I suspected a hex rod for the blot heads, I couldn't imagine any one cutting them out of flat sheet, no matter how dedicated. The results are stunning, can't wait for you next post.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Progress, slow ‘n sort of steady..

I so focussed on getting the valve gear running smoothly that I forgot to check the final height of the steam chests. Whoops.










Fix was 4mm (ish) riser for the steam chest – looks a bit closer to the original outline now



















Some outside shots for kicks now that spring is here – the cylinder assy is just sitting in place so it looks wonky at some angles, and I still have to make the running gear mounts for the left hand side.




























Overall so far










Cheers
Neil


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Well, this has been bit of a trial..

After getting the RHS running gear assembled it developed a small bind. No worries, must be what I’ve just added – right? Except the bind was occurring on the LHS that was running smoothly only two weeks previously. Aaarrghhh.

After much disassembly/reassembly cycles it turned out the RH piston rod was just touching the far cylinder cover at the end of the stroke, enough to slightly twist the cylinder frame and cause the bind on the LHS. It was all happening at the same time so trying to determine cause and effect was, ummm, frustrating..

Of course several bits got damaged during the repeated handling – more bloody rebuilding.. (No no – its an opportunity to refine the design Neil..). Yeah, right.

But it is now fixed, all together and running smoothly. One final disassembly to clean and paint to go, which will be some time off.

Pics..





































Summer is now here downunder, modelling may take a back seat for a bit while I get some trackwork underway outside.

Cheers
Neil


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

You've got more patience than I do....


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's looking really fantastic. Glad you found the bind. I recently built an HO scale steam model and binding issues had me ready to throw the whole thing in the trash, til I finally tracked it down. 

Beautiful work you're doing.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Mike. Strange - I just noticed theres only one letter between bin and bind. Close cousins almost.. 

Mik, tracking this down was more bloody minded stubbornness - I wasn't going to get beaten at this stage. Gotta confess I'm looking forward to working with styrene on the next part. 

Cheers 
Neil


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey Neil,

I'll drag this back up to front page news...
Do you have any updates on progress on your loco build?

Thanks.. Dirk - DMS Ry.


----------



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Hi Dirk,

Sad to say no - life has stalled things a bit. But the project has not been binned, will post again when things get moving (and I have a workshop again..).

Cheers
Neil


----------

