# installing RC servos in Aster C&S Mogul?



## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

I bought a used Aster C&S Mogul and want to install radio control. Looking at the reverser lever and the steam valve I can't figure a way to mount servos and linkage. Does anyone have photos or advise on such an installation?


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Bob, the installation is quite simple. All you need is a rocket engine and a flat car. Mount the R/C on the rocket engine and couple it to the C&S Mogul. Oh, you need a strong coupler... and do not forget the direction of the rocket needs to be the opposite to that of the Mogul;-0! Sorry, could not resist. BTW, it is a beautiful engine and a joy to control manually, as long as you know what you are doing. Do not waste this is my advice. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

I have never seen one that actually worked. They run like a scalded dog and the throttle is basically an on/off switch. Sell it while you still can and get an Accucraft if you want narrow gauge.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

John, you should come to Tokyo. Every C&S Mogul I put my hands on worked beautifully. As I wrote to Bob, you need to know what you are doing with them. But they are powerful beasts and controlling them is an art. I would not let R/C play a violin, would you? Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

"I would not let R/C play a violin, would you?" I love this statement! I am so against RC and this is the best answer to those who don't seem to be able to do without it.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Dan
R/C is great for those whose mobility has become limited and cannot "chase" their locomotive. Britt Grimm is faster around the track in her wheel chair than some of the older guys with bad knees and hips.

Lot's of times they get all ready to go and discover they left the receiver on all night and the battery is DEAD. OOPS!! Stuff happens.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

JF - I built one a few years ago. It was a very good puller, and had the loudest bark of any engine I have heard. It was easy to drive slowly. It did require careful building to get the timing exactly correct, but once it was right, its a great runner. 

In any event, your experience is different than mine.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have one, I removed the vapor tank and replumbed the gas tank for gas feed. I don't think there is a lot of room to control the J Bar, even is you removed it. 

In my Aster climax with a similar tiny cab space I had the servo mounted in the bunker and a rod through the wall to the linkage. Was all I could do to fit it in there. The throttle was similar too and I needed it to get the slow speed control as it too was a jackrabbit.

Back to the Mogul, Id try and do throttle only. Can use a HS65BB its a tiny servo and will be good for the throttle. Standard arm linkage no chains. The HS82MG is most likely too large. Main issue is the best location for the throttle servo is the lower right cab rear so you get the least servo strain but I don't think there is room there. 

My mogul runs well, very pleased with it. It too has a loud bark. I can also get it to run nice and slow.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I have one that has a servo (old school large one) mounted in the cab for control. I don't use the radio, just manually move the servo (weird, I know). I'll try to take a pic or two this evening.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

For Dan and Dr. Rivet. You guys with nice raised tracks don't need rc. We have a raised track at Zube Park also. However, my railroad is in/through the garden in my back yard and it would be very difficult to chase the thing around the yard. So I prefer RC for my operations. If I take one of my engines to the Park, I really don't need RC, but it's already there so I just use it. Don't poo poo RC just because you don't need it.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

When I used to run mostly at ground level, I ran mostly RC. It made sense then.
Now that I seldom run ground level, I removed RC from most of my locos. If I have a Weltyk's whistle installed, I leave the whistle RC'd. That is a big hit with the kids.


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## jeffclmft (Oct 22, 2013)

Hey Bob. 

I stacked two mini servos on their sides at a 45 degree angle so one arm went forward and one to the left. Put some two sided tape between them to hold it together. Then I made a strap that goes around both of them out of aluminum and mounted the whole thing behind the Johnson bar in the cab. I was able to use existing holes for the mounting screws so I didn't need to drill new ones to hold it all down. The top arm goes to the steam regulator and the bottom goes to the Johnson. I literally just hooked a clevis directly to the brass throttle wheel. You will need to remove the stop pin on off the Johnson. The receiver and batteries are in the tender behind the water tank rapped in plastic. You will need to drill one hole in the front of the tender to let the wires go forward to the loco. I needed RC due to the ground level grades on my RR but often run with the RC off if I am at a raised and level RR. I really like this loco. It pulls and sounds great and fits the scale of all of the LGB stuff I already had. This is a good engine to run if you want to "operate" a loco. If you just want to see a engine run around your layout by it self, run your Ruby.


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## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks to all, even the comics. Zubi, it runs fine but I obtained it used and the reverser (Johnson Bar) locking bracket is missing and the JB walks out of full forward or reverse and I don't have an elevated track. So chasing it every few feet isn't an option at my age. For the guy you all call " JohnFranks", I have Accucraft Loco's as well, and they are fine, but this question was about the Aster C&S Mogul. No, I never owned a Ruby. M-6, GS-4, K-36, 4-4-0 2-6-0, Plantation, but NO RUBY.
Thanks to Jeff who took me seriously and I would really like to see some photos of your sandwiched servo set up.
To Seadawg, do you have any photos of your servo install? 

To Jason, that set up sounds like it might interfere with the spacing between the cab and tender in a turn.
One avenue I did look at is mounting a reversing servo outside the cab under the right side and doing away with the Johnson bar. Has anyone seen anything like that on these?
Thanks to all
Bob


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Bob, hope you did not mind the jokes too much;-)... I tried to remember if Aster offered an R/C kit for this engine, but I failed. In any case, they may still have the locking bracket that you are missing. You would be amazed what kind of parts I got from them. One time for example I got a missing casting for the C&N Climax, some 30 years after they were released. It took Toyoki San a quarter of an hour to find it, but lo and behold, there it was. I did not actually have the Climax, I was thinking of buying it but changed my mind, so I just posted the part to the owner... Anyway, I am sure that they had an R/C kit for Frank S but I a not sure about the C&S Mogul. Actually, I think they did not. Now you need to think about the water gauge. If you put a servo there, you will not be able to see it from the side of the Johnson bar. If you mount the servo under the roof, you might be able to use some kind of an extension (a stiff wire) to operate a modified Johnson bar (you would need to mount a bracket under 90 degrees). Another option is like you suggest, under the cab floor right side - but you would need to remove the brake pump. Perhaps the most neat option would be to mount the servo in between the frames (there is enough room there for a small servo) and operate the pushing rod to the valve gear directly. That said, this locomotive will be difficult to control only using the reverser. Operating the steam valve is quite essential on this engine and this has to be done very gently as the valve is quite sensitive. Of course if you open the valve just a tiny amount, the locomotive can then be operated using the reverser only. With best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Zubi, Enjoy playing around on here. Hope the Mogul gets to running ok. I am sure there are examples out there that work, I just have never seen one in person.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob I was referring to how I did my Climax as it had a similar small cab and could not fit a servo in there for the J Bar. I guess that seeing my Mogul its going to be real tight. The servo arm is your limitation, I don't know of you will get the swing without interference in various places. But the HS65B is the micro servo and the smallest you can get that holds up to the steamers.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

jfrank said:


> Hi Zubi, Enjoy playing around on here. Hope the Mogul gets to running ok. I am sure there are examples out there that work, I just have never seen one in person.


Hi John, now what you say is interesting... I have not seen one working either - for at least five years now. As sad as it sounds I simply did not have time to run them or go to steamups.... Those unfortunate examples you came across, please send them over to me, I guarantee that I will get all of them running pretty and neat as long as they are not modified by home grown inventors. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Slightly off topic but if one does not plan on a lot of switching moves could one get away with a single servo for throttle? Or is the j
Johnson bar one needed because of cold cylinders?


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## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

zubi said:


> Bob, hope you did not mind the jokes too much;-)... I tried to remember if Aster offered an R/C kit for this engine, but I failed. In any case, they may still have the locking bracket that you are missing. You would be amazed what kind of parts I got from them. One time for example I got a missing casting for the C&N Climax, some 30 years after they were released. It took Toyoki San a quarter of an hour to find it, but lo and behold, there it was. I did not actually have the Climax, I was thinking of buying it but changed my mind, so I just posted the part to the owner... Anyway, I am sure that they had an R/C kit for Frank S but I a not sure about the C&S Mogul. Actually, I think they did not. Now you need to think about the water gauge. If you put a servo there, you will not be able to see it from the side of the Johnson bar. If you mount the servo under the roof, you might be able to use some kind of an extension (a stiff wire) to operate a modified Johnson bar (you would need to mount a bracket under 90 degrees). Another option is like you suggest, under the cab floor right side - but you would need to remove the brake pump. Perhaps the most neat option would be to mount the servo in between the frames (there is enough room there for a small servo) and operate the pushing rod to the valve gear directly. That said, this locomotive will be difficult to control only using the reverser. Operating the steam valve is quite essential on this engine and this has to be done very gently as the valve is quite sensitive. Of course if you open the valve just a tiny amount, the locomotive can then be operated using the reverser only. With best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


Zubi, I enjoy humor. No problem at all. Do itashi mashite. I have visited Aster a few times and Inoye-San was very helpful. Unfortunately I understand he has had some health problems and is no longer there. I also understand that the earthquake sent all the parts bins on the floor and know one knows exactly what is what since then. When I see the promotional stuff for the C&S Mogul they state that some provision was made for a SINGLE servo installation. Exactly what that means I don't know. I have been trying to get ahold of Hans here in the USA, but he isn't answering his phone and I have not had a return call.
About the Humor. I do see on this site some people do tend to be too serious. Hey this is a hobby. We should ALL enjoy ourselves, but putting others down isn't much fun, is it?


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## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

Lorna said:


> Slightly off topic but if one does not plan on a lot of switching moves could one get away with a single servo for throttle? Or is the j
> Johnson bar one needed because of cold cylinders?


Lorna,
As far as I know there is not much problem with cylinders getting cold except on a Garrett where there is a long distance run of the steam lines. Once a Loco is running and continues there should be ample heat to keep the cylinders warm even at slow speeds. Now once you stop and the flow of steam stops, it would depend on how long it sat still before feeling that warmth again to the cylinders.


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## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

Dan Pantages said:


> "I would not let R/C play a violin, would you?" I love this statement! I am so against RC and this is the best answer to those who don't seem to be able to do without it.


Ok Dan,
Got the message and that's fine if you're running on an elevated track or you're 10 years old and do have to stoop down all the time. But even you can admit if you're running at Staver's and someone left the turnout thrown the wrong way ahead of you as you follow your Loco it would be nice to have R/C to stop it before you derail.
Happy Steaming Dan. Hope to see you at Staver's again.
Bob


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## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

jfrank said:


> I have never seen one that actually worked. They run like a scalded dog and the throttle is basically an on/off switch. Sell it while you still can and get an Accucraft if you want narrow gauge.


Mr. JFrank'
Are you opposed to anything not made by Accucraft? I have a variety and try to get ones that I like and run well. Bing and Cliff know me very well and I think they have great products and unsurpassed after sales service. But they don't make everything I like. I prefer Butane fired but I have a few ALKY burners. Aster has had some lemons as most manufactures have had, but once I got the running problems fixed on this C&S Mogul it now is an excellent runner with good low speed character. Why you think they run like scalded dogs is beyond me. The only ones I've seen run like that are the Brit Alky burners and Richard Murray's screaming Cricket.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

bobrstrong said:


> Zubi, I enjoy humor. No problem at all. Do itashi mashite. I have visited Aster a few times and Inoye-San was very helpful. Unfortunately I understand he has had some health problems and is no longer there. I also understand that the earthquake sent all the parts bins on the floor and know one knows exactly what is what since then. When I see the promotional stuff for the C&S Mogul they state that some provision was made for a SINGLE servo installation. Exactly what that means I don't know. I have been trying to get ahold of Hans here in the USA, but he isn't answering his phone and I have not had a return call.
> About the Humor. I do see on this site some people do tend to be too serious. Hey this is a hobby. We should ALL enjoy ourselves, but putting others down isn't much fun, is it?



Bob, thanks for the kind message! And it is great that you have actually visited Aster and got to know the kind gentleman Toyoki Inoue San, who at the time was responsible for international relations. Indeed, he had serious health problems, but he continued helping for several years after retirement. But a few years ago he left and moved to his hometown to a nursing/care home. I have the Moguls but no manuals or promotional materials, so I only cited from memory that they may have actually had some servo provisions. Now that you confirmed this, indeed, as in the case of the Frank S they only offered one servo mount, for the reverser. From what I remember, this was a fairly simple kit, as one would expect. If you like I can inquire here if they still have them. But as you mentioned, things are not what they used to be and the Tohoku earthquake took its toll on Aster as did also the economic crisis, still actually persisting in Japan. In any case, this kit was meant for one servo, of the large type which would be more or less standard at the time these engines were designed. And we are talking about over 30 years ago. So with tiny servo produced now, you should be able to make a much better job of the installation, plus you should really try to mount one on the regulator. If you have any access to R/C Roundhouse locomotives, in my opinion they are masters in R/C installation, you could get some ideas from looking at these engines. Say Darjeeling B-tank is a pretty small engine. And so is the recent Hunslet Charles. With best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## jeffclmft (Oct 22, 2013)

Hi Bob

I finally got around to taking a couple pics for you. I was in the process of doing some maintenance so I was able to get some good shots of the cab, cab free.







Hope this helps.


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## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

Jeff,
Look like you tried to load some photos but I can't seem to view them. All I see is a square with an X in the middle. When I click on them nothing happens. Is thee a trick i'm missing?
Bob


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## jeffclmft (Oct 22, 2013)

Hi Bob.
I suspect it is I who is missing a trick. Not very helpful. This is why live steam is so enjoyable, it's analog and so am I. I will try again but I'm pessimistic. I'm open for suggestions from our esteemed forum viewers.


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## fatfarlake (Jun 3, 2013)

Hello Bob,

Found this thread while installing RC in my Mogul. I just finished the conversion and you can see in this movie the result. I can make more pictures if you need them.

Greetings,

Dick


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## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

Sorry Dick I didn't follow up on your posting the video. Thank you, great video, I can't quite see the servo on the Johnson bar but I'll try some placement there. I haven't run this loco much the last couple years, although I really like it's performance and the bark that it emits.
Cheers,
Bob Armstrong
Martinez, Ca. USA


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