# End of a dream...



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Well guys, I did my homework, did the math, found a plan, found a great old photograph, built the track and left a six-foot gap to be filled by my dream trestle bridge.

Just over 2 feet high and six feet long, and not only double-track width, but substantial enough to take my heaviest loco, the 35+ pound Accucraft Garratt.

A real honest to goodness heavy duty trestle.

That was the plan at ten o'clock this morning when I walked into our local lumber yard.

At five minutes after ten, I walked out again, stunned into near unique silence, my plans blown away in less than ten seconds.

The conversation went like this.....

'Mornin', Barry, I need a price for 500 feet of 3/4" square red cedar, if you have a minute...'

'Whoooooooooooooooooo, that's pricey stuff here, y'know. Rough-sawn, y'say?'

'Yup, it'll look good and hold the preservative better too.'

'True thing, lemme getcha a price on that stuff. Hey, why doncha sit down [heheh], my gues is you'll need to.' He gets on the phone. 'Mmuttermuttermuttermutterutter, ya don't say? Holy Shirt!!!!!!'

He turns to me, 'tac, you'd best be sitting down like I said. With the VAT it comes to just over [converts to $$$], uh, $580.'

















Stunned silence from this side of the counter.

Lasted almost until we got back home, twenty minutes later. mrs tac was very good about it, under the circumstances, and never said a thing.

I'll be looking at the alternatives I have right now during the next couple of days, one of which involves simply continuing the track in the same construction style as the current trackbed.

sigh...................................

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Want to play, gotta pay....


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Might it be cheaper to buy a larger, shorter board and saw it to 3/4" square yourself? You might also consider redwood. Donno if that's cheaper where you are.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I would suggest seeing if your local gardening shop stocks 3/4" redwood stakes, these can be cut to size and bolted together. Its the collective strenth of all the members together than the individual strenth of any one, wow that sounds so Socialist...[/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif]


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry,

That SUCKS! When I built my trestle, I used two pieces of redwood. I do not recall the exact dimensions, but it must have been like 6" x 1" x 96". Using a table saw, I cut out all the pieces I needed. It did create a lot of sawdust, and I do not remember it being very cheap. I think for the two boards we paid something like $100 or thereabouts in 1995. Redwood is rare on the east coast. Rarer still in the UK. The price must have been to airfreight a couple of boards.

For that kind of price, you might just as well use garden metal model deck bridges or have someone over there build you one out of steel. 

Mark


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Tac, 

I know, as I had something very like it! Why the stuff is so expensive beats me! I don't know if the following (german) site will be able to assist you but have a look - 

http://www.gartenbahnparts.com/cms/front_content.php 

There is a link on that to trestles and bridges, the longest of which is 150cm, he makes them so he may also be able to strengthen one for you to take the garratt; the price includes postage to the uk by the way, we just have to wait till (IF!) the darned lousy exchnage rate starts to become a better rate than its (sub?) basement level at the moment! 

They are redwood, and a regular painting with the like of Teak Oil should assist in keeping it in good condition. 

A final idea, you could try a user of Cedar - like Alton Glasshouses, whose weblink is http://www.altongreenhouses.co.uk , and see if they could help with the timber, perhaps as a special order?


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

As Mark just alluded to, it may be more cost effective to buy 3/4 inch cedar siding and a small table saw, then rip it yourself. When I was building canoes, I'd buy Cedar siding and rip my own strips from that. I was a heck of a lot of work, but it saved me almost 75% on materials cost. they looked great, cedar is cedar.. the buyers had no idea where the wood came from, all they knew was the had a beautiful, light, good performing canoe. I can't see how a trestle would be any different. 

And you can add the position of Sawyer to your resume....


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## SteveF (Jan 2, 2008)

TAC, you could do what Jens Bang did. He used what ever wood that was laying around, cut it to size, soaked it in used motor oil for several days, wiped it dry, then built his trestle. So far, it has lasted more than 15 years.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

I have been buying 2x4s for my bridges. I found clear readwood was $30.00 for an 8 foot but the heart 2/4s with some knots went for $10. My son gets them and brings them back with him when he visits (redwood is hard to find in newengland. 

A whole lot is wasted in sawdust but you can still get a whole lot of stringers and ties out of a single 2x4. 

This is a whole lot less expensiive then using the demensional scale lumber that I also have a lot of. 

Hope that helps. 

Stan Ames 
http://www.tttrains.com/largescale/


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmmmmm, good ideas about the redwood stakes. I'll go look tomorrow, after calling to see IF they actually have them, of course.

Just about any kind of cedar or redwood is ferociously expensive here in UK - decks are pretty new here, y'see, and buying scrap from a deck-builder seems to be a no-no. That's why I went to the lumber yard in the fust place.

Timber oil-soaking is a good way to go as well, the ties on our 7.25" track, treated the same way, have been in place here in soggy UK for about the same time as Mr Bang's wondrous structures.

I have almost recovered now, thanks guys.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.orgf


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac when I built my first trestle bridge, I used tanalised fencing slats and wood from pallets that I cut myself. As it was all nailed construction, I then painted it with Thompsons. It lived outside for about ten years with no real degradation. I burnt it in the end.
Rod


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

i would say, if you buy good wood for the bases that is good enough. 
the only sensible zone is, where the wood touches the earth.(or concrete) 
for the rest of the structure just take any wood. the cheapest does it. 
when oiled or treated otherwise any wood withstands the weather.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't buy S4S , buy the smooth on one side tight notte 7/8" cedar. I paid $15 for a 8" X 12 1X 

you can cut it down your self. of buy dog eared fencing and rip it into good parts. 

$580,, think of,,, the entertainment value,, hours on hours of unadaultrated pleasure, I'm me pennies per hour....You can buy an engine for that or creat a one of a kind master piece of realizism.
Now memorize this and go tell your wife.


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

TAC, I would try cedar fencing, if you go to your local cedar fence company? you might find a whole lot of scraps, I have a Cedar fence company as one of my accounts(garbageman) I get all my cedar from him, in fact today I got beveled edges on 1x3 boards, got 10 of them 5 ft long, enough to do something with. 

tom h


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

Redwood is like gold here in Michigan, so I cut some pine into ties (sleepers), put a lot in a large container, put some screen on them to hold them down, and then filled the container with a mixture of half used motor oil and half kerosene, left them for a couple of days. When I removed them, I place them on top of the screen to drain. And used the container, screen and mixture again and again until I had enough ties for 400 feet of track. They were on the ground for 5 years when I had to "de-track" because of moving. Worked for me.


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac -- 

In regard to using 3/4 inch square, that scales out to 15 inches (assuming 1:20). All the plans I have seen were for 12 inch timbers. That's how I built mine, and I think the extra-spidery look would add to the drama, especially for your Garrett. The reason I bring it up is that around here (Southern CA) they sell garden stakes that are 1/2 square. 

If you do buy larger pieces and rip them down, buy lots extra, because the smaller bracing pieces mean that you are converting well over half the wood to sawdust. 

One other point to think about. I model a logging line that would have done absolutely nothing where the trestle touched the ground. So, at first, that was what I did. That didn't work out so well, because every time I watered or it rained the bottom of the bents stayed wet for 2-3 days. So, I ended up digging out all the dirt around the bottom, lining the trench with weed block to hold the dirt back, back-filling with pea gravel to one inch below ground level, adding another layer of weed block, then covering with an inch of dirt. The bents dry out very quickly now.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Pay da' money...









If you can afford a Accucraft Garrett then what's the problem?..


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, 

Is there a building salvage yard somewhere within easy distance? With lumber so expensive over there I'd bet there is. They salvage everything from windows & doors to siding and fence boards. Check it out if you can. Used fence boards might be a little rough but so what if you're going to cut them down anyway? 

If worse cpmes to worse we could just build it here next time you come and ship it to the UK knocked down with a "value" of say $50 or so?


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 11/13/2008 7:53 PM
Pay da' money...









If you can afford a Accucraft Garrett then what's the problem?..











Dear Mr Trains - it's BECAUSE I have the Accucraft Garratt that I can't afford $1/2K for a few bits of wood.....









tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey, guys, thanks for all the useful advice, but it seems to me to be in order to enlighten you about being HERE instead of THERE.

As in many part of the USA [as we see from one poster] cedar or redwood is not only passing rare, but also ferociously expensive, and as for cedar fencing, well, it would be cheaper to use gold-leaf-covered gold than cedar here. We also live in a damp old country, and expect, and get, very dank times of year when it is either raining, just stopped or about to start up again. So a naturally waterproof wood like cedar is the first choice for outdoor wooden structures, if available.

Having grown up with cheap lumber over in the GWN, it is always a great shock to me how expensive the stuff is over here, and nothing ever takes away that heart-gripping feeling when something that would cost me $150 from Charley's on Telephone Road costs me at least four times as much here.

So I'm going to trim my sails and lower my expectations - so far, my entire raised double track, ballasted and edged, has cost me less than the price a few sticks of cedar, by a long way. My dear old pal Richard, down in southern Oregon, as well as the rest of you guys, all make good sense to me, it's just that when you have your heart set on using the best stuff, it comes a mite hard to have to go down a peg, or three.

And as for ordinary lumber lasting ten years or so, I guess that'll do me - I'll be long gone by then, no doubt, and won't care too much. 

Thanks to all

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Terry, couldn't you order the wood you need from a supplier here and have it mailed to you? Even with the shipping costs I bet it would be a heck of a lot cheaper. I can recommend a guy who cuts western red cedar to spec for large scale users. I get all mine from him and his prices are very reasonable.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Ray Dunakin on 11/14/2008 2:41 PM
Terry, couldn't you order the wood you need from a supplier here and have it mailed to you? Even with the shipping costs I bet it would be a heck of a lot cheaper. I can recommend a guy who cuts western red cedar to spec for large scale users. I get all mine from him and his prices are very reasonable. 



Ray, a kind gentleman from this forum [via a pm] has already put me in contact with a supplier on your side of the Great Water. Sadly the shipping would wipe away any saving.

Thanks for the thought, anyhow.

Best

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I find it amazing when your Dreams are shattered how many people here will help you piece them back together.


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Bummer. Hmm, there must be some solution... if you can't get cedar or redwood there, perhaps there is some other material that could be obtained locally and pressed into use. Perhaps a local wood, treated with preservatives... or square plastic rods painted to look like wood...


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac, Have no fear after a few years of Lord Obama in charge we will be enjoying our own VAT and pricing to match that on your side of the pond. I'm stocking up on supplies to MAINTAIN my RR, rolling stock and motive power... I would still like to put another engine or two in the shed over the next few years..


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By John J on 11/14/2008 4:39 PM
I find it amazing when your Dreams are shattered how many people here will help you piece them back together. 

John, truer words have hardly ever been spoken.

Thanks, all you guys.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## MasonsDad (Feb 7, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 11/15/2008 11:32 AM
Posted By John J on 11/14/2008 4:39 PM
I find it amazing when your Dreams are shattered how many people here will help you piece them back together. 

John, truer words have hardly ever been spoken.

Thanks, all you guys.

tac
www.ovgrs.org




Tac 
That is why I love this site these guys are great , I had the honor and priviledge to meet alot of them this last June in CA and talk about some nice folks !!! heck if we lived closer I would say come on over and use my equipment and make the boards yourself. Good luck and take care


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac,









When a modeler finds something he wants to do is impractical, he figures out another way to do it.









You'll build your trestle!


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry as MasonsDad said,"heck if we lived closer I would say come on over and use my equipment and make the boards yourself." I do live closer,and, I have a large table saw you are welcome to come over and cut your wood here anytime. Might even make you a cup of tea








Rod
(Swanton Morley, Norfolk)


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## davidarf (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, sorry to hear that your bridge project is giving you such grief. As an out of control bridge building addict, I sympathise. Finding materials and other solutions that are structurally and financially practical can be a challenge. For my timber structures, I use teak because it is very durable outdoors and, more importantly, because I have a supply that I salvaged from some dismantled teak furniture (http://www.sdfr.info/images/August2006/P1000774.JPG). Similarly, Rod has recently completed a small timber bridge using mahogany from a salvaged staircase handrail (http://picasaweb.google.com/wpandyr/QueenTruss#). Are there any opportunities in your part of the country for aquiring second hand timber? This can sometimes be found at no cost - or minimal cost, but does obviously invole the chore of cutting it down to the required sizes.

Best of luck with your project.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

David - as ever, good advice from you - thanks. and thanks to Rod as well, please PM me so we can sort something out.

And thanks to you all, in particular, Jim over in Bellingham WA, proprietor of NorthWest Precision Lumber, who took the trouble to e-mail me with a possible solution. I was unable to take him up on it because of the cost of freighting a 28 pound bundle of wood to UK, but his heart is in the right place and I recommend his products and services to any and all of you, particulalry those in the NWP zone.

I'll think of something, and if I find a few pieces of siuitable woddy stuff, I'll prolly be over at Rod's ripping it up on his sawbench.... 

Anyhow, I'm running my K-27 plus three cars and my Sheridan van on the new layout now - as we write this note, in fact. Where the trestle WILL be is a contraption made of Dexion and slats...looks quite good if you squint a lot...

Best wishes to all, here and there

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

tac this always works for me ............................................take off my glasses and squint a lot !


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Dennis Paulson on 11/20/2008 6:31 AM
tac this always works for me ............................................take off my glasses and squint a lot !

Does the 10 FT squint rule supersede the regular 10 ft rule?


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry,

I saw the picture of your railroad on the OVGRS site. That will make an impressive trestle when done.

Here's another idea:

We use a lot of wood for packaging. Are there any factories nearby that get shipments in wooden crates? Often, the crates are broken down and discarded. While usually a low grade of lumber, it is a cheap alternative. And if it is international shipping, the wood all has to be kiln dried these days. The other thing to consider might be wooden pallets. There was a guy on here not too long ago that built his indoor layout using wooden pallets. 

Mark


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## Mark L Horstead (Jan 2, 2008)

We could all take up a "collection" and each send you a stick.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

How much would it cost to send a 28 LB clump of wood to England?

I was just wondering.


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## Allegheny (Jan 2, 2008)

John,

I just went to the UPS website - 30# to 10 Downing St in London would cost anywhere from $270-380! And that was at the minimum declared value of $100. OUCH.

Brian


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been told that you can not just ship wood internationally. There must be an inspection and stamp for bug free wood or it could be tied up for months by an avid inspector.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

On the straight sections of my RR I have used pieces of timber approx. 3ft.in length x 6 ins. width and 3 ins. depth as the base on which my track and ballast is laid. These timbers are set into the dirt, resting on 8" x 3"x 3" pieces of fence post. The fence post pieces are treated and the pine lengths also have been soaked in a suitable waterproofing and bug deterrent. The corner parts of my RR have building blocks as a foundation. None of this construction has moved, in any direction, since laid two and a half years ago. I am not too concerned about the longevity of all this as I am sure it will see me out!









None of this timber, or any in fact used on parts of my RR, have I needed to buy. Folks around here know I burn wood on my fires and I get lots of logs, tree boughs and scrap lumber given to me. Dumpsters are a good source of lumber - usually FOC if you ask the right person and in the correct manner. Often builders and other tradesmen will deliver to you, again FOC, to get rid of things especially as it saves them time and a journey to the nearest garbage dump/reclamation center.


For TAC's info (he will know what I mean) we learned the a lot of tricks from the Steptoes.


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

I too am in the process of building a truss system and was going to go with cedar. Here in Eastern Canada I figured it would be easy to get and not to expensive. I was wrong as well. I experimented with PVC ripped and glued and painted. It turned out OK but the glued joints were not the strongest. 

My big Question is if I use Pine and soak in Thompson Water stain would I get 10 years out of it? I thought of soaking in motor oil but It would be messy to work with and Not sure if glue would work well. I made a bridge out of Oak and treated it with Thompson water seal and it looks great but It has not been outside yet.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I once saw a train layout in orlando, FL that had cribbing all done with old wood railroad tie's (nice cause it has built in weathering lol). I am not sure if he made the trestles with it too. 

You can usually find a huge pile of the wood ones if there installing those new concrete ties like they are doing here in FL. 

Just throwing an idea I saw once out there.


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Tac, I haven't tackled my trestle yet. I am actually in the information-gathering process at the moment, but I would like to share some information I have gathered. I was talking to a Conductor that was recently hired and was cubbing with us. I was showing him pictures of Richard Weatherby's beautiful trestle work and he commented that he came to the railroad from woodworking. From there he gave me all sorts of information about easy ways to produce things out of wood. I told him about the cliche Cedar and Redwood trestles and since it has been done alot it must be the best way. He threw in "Don't overlook mohogany". He said it is a tough wood and should last a long time unsoiled by the elements, animals, or insects. As far as weathering, he did not know. But he said that it would be a great alternative to Cedar or Redwood. Look into it and tell me what you find, I'll do the same. But don't give up, just build it a piece at a time if you have to as funds allow. I know you'll be happy with the finished product and it will be worth it. Good luck! 

-Will 

p.s. - I sure wish Richard would make a detailed builder's blog about his trestle work. It is great looking stuff ;-)


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## Don Howard (Jan 2, 2008)

Lonestar bridge has been using mahogany since at least 1995. 

http://www.lonestarbridge.com/ 

I've seen samples on USA Trains display at the Amherst Railway show in Springfield MA, and elsewhere, and they make me drool.


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