# Couplers for Aristo-Craft trucks



## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

This is for a display only USA 1:24 express box car (REA).
I'm want to change the USA factory plastic trucks with Aristo-Craft 2 axle (4 wheel) passenger trucks.
I would like to use some realistic couplers on these Aristo-Craft trucks.
Will someone suggest the part #l for a Kadee (or other brand) that might be a good choice?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Kadee #831 should fit the coupler tongue. It is a step up to body mount height. I have used them on Aristo freight trucks, not passenger ones.

Chuck


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

There seem to be so many choices.
Again, this is for a display only so there are no 'coupling issues' to consider .. just appearance.
I read that 1 scale may be more realistic looking than the G scale options.
The 1 scale equivalent looks to be item# 1831. 
I see what you mean by the offset and it looks pretty good to me.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

1:24 is a narrow gauge scale. Gauge 1 is correct for 1:32 standard gauge. 

The D&RGW used standard gauge couplers on their narrow gauge cars and engines. In my mind gauge 1 would look small on that car. Others may disagree.

What cars are your passenger car trucks from?

Based on car length it is correct for a 30' Narrow gauge car in 1:24 scale. The length is also very close to a 40' freight car in 1:32. While the length is good for 1:32, the height and width are too wide and too tall for 1:32. 

If your static display is intended to,be a narrow gauge car, I'd go with the larger "G" size. If you want to represent a 1:32 car, go for the smaller gauge 1.

Chuck


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

My car is a USA reefer (Southern Pacific Lines logo & REA logo – Wood side/Green in color)
USA say it’s an Express Refrigerator ([email protected] R-16096)
I don’t know if there was a prototype?
I purchased the 4 wheel Aristo-Craft trucks on Ebay. Trucks only so I don’t know much about them.
They were just listed as passenger trucks.
I found a photo online of a green wood reefer with the REA marking and it had trucks that look pretty much like the one I bought. That’s the reason I bought them.
The tang to the couplers on my trucks are probably too long, so I plan to cut some of it off too get the new couplers to appear more realistic.


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

In addition to the suggestions above, have you considered that prototype cars have the couplers attached to the car frame, not the trucks. The main reason some models use truck mounted couplers is to allow operation on the very sharp curves found on our layouts.

Just my opinion, but if this car is only for display, it would look much better with a frame mounted coupler.

Happy RRing,
Jerry


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

I was reading about body mounting too.
However, the bed of the box car is about ½” recessed above the sides of the box car.
I couldn’t see how I could attach a body mount.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You can use a piece of wood, plastic, or aluminum of the correct thickness as a filler. Then you could use Kadee #830, for a body mount.

Chuck


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I agree with Jerry, the body mounts would look much better. Also the 900 series look much better than to 800's. A straight set looks better than any of the offsets.


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

*Couplers for Aristo-Craft Trucks*

Yes, I could do that. 
Just glue a ‘super shim’ in there and go with the better looking body mount.
Thanks.


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

This car has 4 wire ‘truss’ attached to the undercarriage.
I need clearance for the longer passenger truck, so I think they will have to go.
They just pop out.
I can’t see a truss in the photo that I have of an REA wood box car either.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The Accucraft 1/32nd scale couplers are quite an accurate model and are easy to attach as they come with draft gear boxes: 
http://www.accucraftestore.com/index.php?productID=788










_Accucraft's eStore says 'sold out' but i suspect the dealers have some - try Clem at Warrior Run._


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

They say Sold Out.
How often do they restock?
John


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm a bit bewildered by what is really wanted here. Please explain by answering these questions.
Are you trying to create an "Express Reefer" ?
Is it just for display purposes ?

This can easily be accomplished by mounting B'mann or LGB American style passenger trucks on an LGB, or USTrains wood reefer....the ones that have a simulated wood underframe, and truss rods. Both are about the same scale, whatever that scale is.....The trucks fit very well, without any problem, except that they do not work with the truck mounted coupler arm, that is easily removed.
..After removing the coupler arm from the trucks, a Kaydee 1906, or 820 body mount coupler is easily mounted on the car, using Styrene shims. You might have to cut a bit on the ends of the car to get the couplers to fit at the correct height, but does not in any way destroy the car's appearance.

I have modified a number of these cars, in this way, and all of them operate very well in passenger consists.
If the person that is trying to make this car into a static model, for display use, doesn't have the will or skills to do the job; I'm willing to do it for him/her....free of charge. Just send the car to me, and pay for the couplers, and shipping.

Although I don't know of any Narrow Gauge express reefers, riding/equipped with passenger/high speed trucks, the cars when modified, look very good in a standard gauge 1:29 heavy weight passenger car consist, and resemble early wood framed exoress reefers.
I don't do pictures, or I would show the ones we use in our operations on the IPP&W, here in Ottawa Canada.

I wish people on this web page would use their real names, and could easily be contacted off line......

Fred Mills. [email protected]


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

The B'mann passenger trucks are available from B'mann. I have never used the Aristo passenger trucks, and I'd expect that they would be rather hard to find. They also might not fit very well unless they are the ones from the Aristo Narrow Gauge line. The B'mann or LGB trucks do fit very well, and clear the truss rods on a USTrains wood reefer.

Body mounting the couplers, does make the car look more prototype, but NOT if you use the offset style couplers.


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

*Couplers for my 1:24 USA Box Car*

My car is a USA Wood reefer (Southern Pacific/ REA – bright Green in color)
USA say it’s an 1:24 Express Refrigerator (model # R-16096) and they call it G scale.
However, most people seem to refer to 1:29 as G scale.

I have Aristo-Craft 4 wheel passenger trucks and I plan to just cut the tang/coupler off and use Kadee body mounted couplers with standard draft gear boxes.
Question is-- what scale to use for this 1:24 box car…. Kadee #1 or G

Someone mentioned that #1 scale is closer to 1:32, so that may be too small for my 1:24 car, and the larger Kadee G scale couplers would be better?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

There is no G scale, there is G gauge.
We have ratios that run on one track, however only one ratio 1:32 is correct for standard ga. on it and one for 3' narrow ga. 1:20.3
Your 1:24 is an odd duck for a US prototype. It should have 3'6" ga so a smaller coupler would be fine.
The Rio Grande (and a few others) was known for using full size couplers (standard ga) on the narrow gauge equipment. They also had Standard ga equipment and standardized the couplers. Other narrow gauge railroads used a 3/4 size coupler.

LGB makes mostly European models based on Meter gauge track, American prototype trains,1:29 standard ga models are close in size to those.
Bachmann and others bucked 1:24 and chose 1:22.5 for narrow ga trains to blend in with the LGB.

Finescale modelers wanted a true 45mm = 3' scale and 1:20.3 was introduced. This size is noticeably larger than your 1:24.

SP ran narrow ga in the Owens Valley.









As you can see the couplers are smaller. 1:32 should be fine.
John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If this is indeed display only as stated in the original post, you can get couplers _much _more realistic, and add the coupler lifting pin and the brake hoses. I would not go Kadee.

Look into the couplers the narrow gaugers use, cast from metal.

Greg


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

I would like to look into some of those cast coupler options.
Can you suggest some websites?


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

coh2000As you stated:
"My car is a USA reefer (Southern Pacific Lines logo & REA logo – Wood side/Green in color)
USA say it’s an Express Refrigerator ([email protected] R-16096) I don’t know if there was a prototype?
I have Aristo-Craft 4 wheel passenger trucks.... what scale to use for this 1:24 box car…. Kadee #1 or G"

As to a prototype SP narrow gauge express car, I could not find one in my books that describes or shows that a narrow gauge Southern Pacific Express car existed; it could be for a slow narrow gauge train this would seem to be a contradiction! However, that should not detract from what you want to model, so please don't let this affect you.

As to the Aristo passenger type truck you purchased,I wonder if it is from an Aristo Delton car. If from an Aristo "Heavy Weight" or streamliner car, it would be awfully big.

FYI, As to the Kadee couplers:

Compared to the Kadee 907 "G" type coupler, the coupler from the Kadee 1907 "#1" type coupler does not appear to be a truly centerset as it has a notable downward offset. So this affects mount shimming if you are concerned with matching with the Kadee coupler height gauge or other cars. However, since your car is only for display by itself this should not be much of a concern.










That said, there is another Kadee #1 type coupler that appears to be centerset (no vertical offset.) 
Compare the #1 gauge Kadee 1907 with a Kadee 1917 - shown below.
Unlike the Kadee 1907, the Kadee 1917 coupler appears to look like it is truly centerset!










-Ted


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

coh2000, As you stated:
"My car is a USA reefer (Southern Pacific Lines logo & REA logo – Wood side/Green in color)
USA say it’s an Express Refrigerator ([email protected] R-16096) I don’t know if there was a prototype?
I have Aristo-Craft 4 wheel passenger trucks.... what scale to use for this 1:24 box car…. Kadee #1 or G"

As to a prototype SP narrow gauge express car, I could not find one in my books that describes or shows that a narrow gauge Southern Pacific Express car existed; it could be for a slow narrow gauge train this would seem to be a contradiction! However, that should not detract from what you want to model, so please don't let this affect you.

As to the Aristo passenger type truck you purchased,I wonder if it is from an Aristo Delton car. If from an Aristo "Heavy Weight" or streamliner car, it would be awfully big.

FYI, As to the Kadee couplers:

Compared to the Kadee 907 "G" type coupler, the coupler from the Kadee 1907 "#1" type coupler does not appear to be a truly centerset as it has a notable downward offset. So this affects mount shimming if you are concerned with matching with the Kadee coupler height gauge or other cars. However, since your car is only for display by itself this should not be much of a concern.










That said, there is another Kadee #1 type coupler that appears to be centerset (no vertical offset.) 
Compare the #1 gauge Kadee 1907 with a Kadee 1917 - shown below.
Unlike the Kadee 1907, the Kadee 1917 coupler appears to look like it is truly centerset!










-Ted


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Sorry for the redundant post, I could not get the MLS editor to delete it.
-Ted


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

Ted, 
Thanks for the comparison photos. 
I’ve been trying to find comparison (side by side) photos on the web but couldn’t find any side by side comparison photos anywhere I looked.
It is a great help to me.
Thanks too for pointing out the differences… I greatly appreciate your reply.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I doubt that there was never enough "express" shipped on any narrow gauge trains to warrant the expense of a dedicated car owned or leased by REA. Many pictures I have of headend cars in Narrow Gauge passenger service say baggage and express on the side. 

Chuck

Here are some examples of decals that I have used on a Bachmann baggage car and combine, lettered for the Colorado & Southern narrow gauge. Note that "Railway Express Agency" appears on the right side of the car. I think that this would have been more typical of Narrow Gauge "express" cars. There is nothing wrong with making the car into whatever your want it to be. We all do it, it is part of the hobby. Make the car look good to you and that is all that matters.



















Here is a link to a picture of a typical mail/baggage/REA car on the D&RGW narrow gauge it is car #60 at the Colorado Railway Museum. You will have to scroll down the page to see the picture.

http://coloradorailroadmuseum.org/business-and-passenger-cars/


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

Thanks Chuck,
I’m pretty sure from all the comments that this is somewhat of a ‘fantasy car’.
It was another forum member who suggested that my 1:24 was narrow gauge I suppose because it is 1:24?.
My grandfather and my mother both worked in the SP freight office here in Houston, so I wanted to build something to remind me of them and their jobs with SP, and I wanted to do a good job on it.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

As I said earlier, the cars as made by USAT in that series are based on 30' narrow gauge freight cars in 1:24 scale. That car scales out in length to a 40' standard gauge car in 1:32. It is a little fatter and taller than 1:32 cars, but for your purposes, by itself it would be fine as a standard gauge car in 1:32. It would stand out in a train of 1:32 freight cars, as an odd duck.

There is a much greater likelihood that a similar car ran on SP standard gauge, than SP narrow gauge. Since the SP narrow gauge ran in Nevada and California, a standard gauge representation would be better for a Houston connection.

Based on that, I'd recommend gauge one body mounted couplers with a shim of appropriate thickness.

Chuck


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

Thanks Chuck,
I’m glad to hear your gauge one suggestion.
How about Burl Rice’s brass ‘E’ type couplers?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The type E coupler started in the 1930's, perhaps it is a bit modern for your car?

What about Accucraft couplers?










Greg


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

*Type E*

My equipment is 1/20.3 narrow gauge. 

I just finished adding Type E G scale body mounted Kadee couplers (# 905) to my Bachmann rolling stock. I picked 'G' scale Type E because I liked the smaller look compared to the Bachmann supplied couplers. 

I needed to add styrene beams to each car to mount the couplers low enough to match the height gauge. 

These preformed very well on track I was having coupling issues with the supplied truck mounted Bachmann couplers.

This photo shows a flat bed, refrigerator, and gondola car.


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

Yes Ted,
You are correct. The Aristo-Craft passenger trucks arrived today and they look really too big.
I need some smaller in length for this USA box car.
Maybe I can sell them to someone in the forum who can use them because they are nice quality.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You need to help us. Can you provide us with the product number of the trucks you ordered. Someone might know which is the several scales that Aristo made they came from.

Are they too long, too high, too"what" that makes them unsuitable. Can you measure the wheel base of your trucks that might help (the distance between the center of the journal boxes)?

A picture with a ruler in front would also be a help. There are trucks out there that might work, but we need to know the size you think would work.

Chuck


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

COH

I have just measured the distance between the center of the journals on all the types of "G" gauge two truck passenger cars that I have in my collection.

These are all passenger trucks. I'm not including the 3 axle trucks found on the AristoCraft Heavyweights as they would not be appropriate for your car.

1:20.3
Accucraft Coach
Distance: 3.035"

1:22.5/24
Pilo Drovers caboose
Distance: 2.25"

LGB D&RGW coach
Distance: 2.70"

Bachmann coach
Distance: 2.55"

1:24
Delton RPO (taken over by AristoCraft)
Distance: 2.52"

1:29
USA Trains streamlined coach
Distance: 3.70"

AristoCraft Heavyweight sleeper
Distance: 3.34

AristoCraft streamlined coach 
Distance: 3.34"

As you can see there is a wide range of lengths to the "G" gauge passenger car trucks.

My guess is that the Piko trucks might work best as they are the smallest. Another possibility if you can get them would be MTH 1:32 trucks, but they might be too small.

There are other passenger trucks out there, but I don't have them (USAT Sierra coaches and HLW, which might be similar to the Delton).

Chuck


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

Chuck, Here are 3 photos of my car/ trucks.
The trucks wheel base is closer to 3.25 that the photo shows... may be the angle I shot it from.
The Aristo-Craft trucks are sitting high because I would need to tap the existing connection point to allow them to sit down and I haven't done that.
I got them on Ebay and they did not come with a box so I don't know the part number.
The original trucks are on the other end.
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5737/22827721204_77e4370355_b.jpg
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/706/22829421983_425a04404b_b.jpg
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/708/23430409406_82b4daa406_b.jpg

Heres a prototype with the type of trucks that I was hoping to find.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/589/22829594753_841d3ea5cb_b.jpg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

COH

Thanks for the pictures. Your ruler suggests that your trucks are close to the 3.34" I measured for the Aristo trucks. Express cars used passenger trucks, because of the higher speeds required. I'll stick with my recommendation of the Piko trucks if you can find them. 

Part of the problem is that the hole to attrach your truck to the car is not in the center. It puts the back wheel too far back, for a short car. The fact that it is high can be dealt with. 

Those trucks are probably from an Aristo Heavyweight. A car that is twice as long as yours. They put the hole off center so that the car could navigate tight curves.

I don't know if drilling a hole in the center would help or not. That would be up,to you. A shorter passenger truck would be better.

Chuck


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

Thanks Chuck for taking time to measure your trucks and then type all of the information in.
Your Piko trucks are on a caboose? Are they in fact passenger trucks? I'll watch Ebay.
Look again that the prototype link below... looks like the wheels are close to the end of the car ti me or maybe that is just the angle of the photograph.

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/589/22829594753_841d3ea5cb_b.jpg

By the way, the guy who sold them to me said he would take them back less postage both ways. I guess the look too big to keep. Are you guys laughing at this?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Your link didn't work for me. 

The car is called a Drover's caboose. It is a combine, baggage and coach, with a cupola. It had passenger trucks because it was a full length passenger car.

The Piko number is 38624. 

The car has an interesting history. It started out as a combine on the D&RGW spur from the main line to Pagosa Springs. The conductor had it rebuilt with a cupola. The term drover comes from the cowboys who road the train to tend to the cattle in the cattle cars in the train (that is the legend, but it was such a short run, I doubt that the cowboys were needed). I haven't seen any reference to it on longer runs where they might really be needed. Later on the cupola was removed and the car is still in use on the Durango and Silverton.

Chuck

You might try positioning the truck center under the post and see how it looks. Ignore for the moment that the car is too high. If the position of the wheels looks better, then you might consider drilling a new hole and then adjusting the height. 

We are not laughing, because we have all been there. At least I have. This is a learning process. "G" gauge is a complicated part of the hobby. Multiple scales running on the same gauge track. Unlike other scales where the same scale runs on different gauge tracks. HO and HOn3 are the same scale, but the track if different. I can run a standard gauge train on the same track as a narrow gauge train, just not at the same time as the sizes are different and it looks strange. There are 5 or more scales that are run on our 45mm gauge track. They range from Maine 2' gauge to modern 4'8.5" standard gauge and many narrow gauges in between.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sharing a chuckle perhaps, but I learned that lesson 50 years ago. My HO express reefer was a 50' car and it had the high speed trucks too, but they were designed for that car and not borrowed from a longer car...
With our miss mash of scales on one gauge, the deck was stacked against you.
Sierra Passenger cars are also 1:24, the trucks are 4" over the top beams. FWIW; they would fit under an Aristo Classic box car/reefer with bolster modifications.
I don't have the USA car to measure.
John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John

As someone famous once said, "I resemble that remark". 

Cheers, see you in a couple of months.

Chuck

The Aristo classics are the original Delton molds, I think. They are very close to the same length as the USAT cars, but they are about a half an inch or so lower.

Here is a picture of part of my ABT (Adult Beverage Train).

The Coor's car in front of the caboose is a relettered Delton reefer, the Coor's tank car is a relettered LGB tank car, the next reefer is a legitimate LGB reefer and the Olympia is a USAT reefer (the one in question). Just sticking in from the right is the end of a Stroh's reefer (Delton). The Delton, aka Aristo Classics are slightly lower, but the other dimensions are similar.


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

Here are 3 photos of my USAT box car with the 'super' Aristo-Craft trucks attached with the existing USAT screws and screw posts. The box car sits a little too high I think but maybe I could jist cut the mounting posted off a little?
Anyway, I want you to tell me if these trucks look silly or otherwise ridiculous?
Also here is a photo of the closest prototype I could find.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

COH

Your USA car is the same length as the PIKO Drover's caboose, abut 14.5".

The PIKO trucks would be a better visual fit. If the car was mine, I'd add gauge 1 body mounted Kadees and use the wheels that came with it. You will have a nice looking display without trucks that are too large for the model.

Keep you eyes out for some PIKO passenger trucks and install them when you can get them. Remember, it is your car and you have to be happy!!! No one is going to come in your house and comment on the trucks.

One other thing to remember is that the real car was probably 50' long and standard gauge. Your car is a model of a 30' narrow gauge car.

PIKO has an ad on the back cover of the latest Garden Railways Magazine. Give them a call and see if they will sell the passenger car trucks (American, not European style).

Chuck


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

COH

Here are a couple of pictures of a USAT 1:24 box car with a Piko passenger truck on one end (right under the "RIO GRANDE")and a USAT archbar truck on the other (left).











Closeup of Piko passenger car truck.











Chuck


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

I see Pico American passenger trucks (36052) and wheels sets on several sites and Ebay too.
I don’t know what these are similar to you Drover Caboose or not? They are only about $11 ea.
They don’t look as good as the Arist-Craft but they are smaller.
I also see Pico wheel sets at about $16/ set. Both 30 and 35mm diameter.
36164 Metal Wheelset, 30mm, Plated, 2 Pcs Available $20.99 
36165 Metal Wheelset, 35mm, Plated, 2 Pcs Available $22.99 
Please give me your opinion.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, that is what you need.

There are several dealers, that support this site. It would help if you ordered from them. They are (Raindeer pass RR and Train-Li) they are very reputable and I would deal with them. You will need the trucks and the axles. If you contact the dealers I have recommended they will recommend the best axles and probably at the best price. There are many wheel sets out there, let them suggest what you will need.

Chuck

This afternoon, I went to the Piko website and got,the same part number. I was about to post it when you made your post

I hope it works for you.


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## coh2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

Thank you Chuck for posting the photos and all of the supporting information that you have provide me with.
Raindeer is one of the sites that I have viewed in recent days and I'll be in contact with them.
Best,
Glenn


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Good choice and I hope the project meets your expectations.

Post some pictures of the completed project.

Chuck

Prior to Monday afternoon, I didn't know anything about PIKO trucks or cars for that matter (I'm not actively adding rolling stock). We were driving back to Virginia from Chincoteague, Va and as usual we stopped at Star Hobbies in Annapolis. I spotted a PIKO car with "MONONGAHELLA RIVER" on it's side board. Nancy grew up in Morgantown, WV. That river runs through the center of town. What else could I do, but buy it, along with a few other items. 

I'm impressed with the quality and the appearance of the car and it is made in Germany. The rear marker lights are some of the best I have seen.The car is a couple of inches shorter than the LGB Drover's caboose, but it looks nice and will be welcome on the Clear Lake Lumber Co. RR.


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