# Live Steam R/C setups



## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

How do you guys with a small fleet of engines set up your radio systems?
1 TX for each engine?
1 TX for ALL engines?
Somewhere in between?

AND, if I want to run multiple operators (engineers), each engineer need a TX, right?
and it's OK to run multiple 2.4gHz TX's in the backyard? even if it's 3 - DX6 TX?

I currently have 3 engines with a 4th coming and want to be able to have 2 different engineers run them. 
Can I do anything more versatile than binding 2 engines to TX-A and the other 2 engines to TX-B?

Thanks!


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, I run 4 engines with a DX6 TX but each has its own RX. There are seperate peramaters for each one so I have to change the model number on the TX depending on which engine I'm running. I have never run two of my engines at once but have had three engineers running DX6 TX's at one time with no problem.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

I have ONE DX6i six channel transmitter for all my locomotives. It will handle 10 separate receivers, so you only need one transmitter for all you locomotives (unless you really have a lot of locos). 

http://www.spektrumrc.com/Products/...D=SPMR6610

I like this transmitter over the DX6 because I can use AA lithium energizer batteries with the DX6i, which last a long time, instead of the unique rechargeable batteries in the DX6. Each locomotive in my transmitter has its own setup that is put into memory. So once set up and that locomotive is selected, the transmitter will only talk to the corresponding receiver due to a model matching feature.

Each locomotive has it's own receiver. I use one small AR6210 for each locomotive. 

http://www.rcslot.com/pc-radio-cont...4AodxEoALw

When each receiver is bound to the transmitter, the transmitter will only talk to that receiver and no other. Each receiver will handle the throttle, the reverser, a whistle and any other feature you want to add such as turning the headlight on and off. I power the receiver and servos with 4 AAA lithium engergizer batteries in a small Radio Shack battery holder with an on/off switch. The batteries last a long time. I have found that the receiver handle heat well and have installed them in a few cabs without issue. In some locomotives, I have the receiver and batteries for it in the tender. 


The receivers will each handle a variety of servos, but I have found that the best servo to use for the throttle and reverser is a Hitek HS-82MG, which has metal gears and a good tolerance for heat. 

http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-82mg_servo.html

The servo is and small with good movement. I have fabricated brackets for them out of brass.

For the reverser, it is just a connecting arm forward and backward.
For the throttle, I use servo sprockets and plastic chain.
http://www.servocity.com/html/plast...227__.html

For the whistle valve, I use a very small park flyer servo. I hope this information helps to solve some of the mystery of R/C.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

You can also use one of your 10 models on the DX6i to run all of your electric R/C locos. That one "model" just uses the generic settings, as the ESC in the loco will have all of the setup parameters stored in it, instead of the TX. One Tx for both Live Steam and Battery Power. Works great!


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Right you are, Dell! I use my DX6 for both steam and electric and love it. By the way I use Dell's Rail Boss for my ESC's.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The big disadvantage of having one type of R/C to control Live Steam and another for Battery powered R/C locos is that you need to keep two (or more) different spare TX's just in case. Four or more in total. With Spektrum DSM2 systems for example, you would only need one TX for all your Live Steam and Battery locos plus one spare TX making only two TX's in total. I don't know of too many Spektrum DSM2 TX's that have died. They are pretty reliable. Even their low cost DX4e 5 channel rigs are proving trouble free.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, I have a Spectrum DX6 and use the same transmitter for all of my RC locos. I do have a receiver in each of them and battery pack. I now have HS81 servo brackets in stock too for easy installation though they are not yet up on the website I have my K28 with RC headlights and marker lights controled form the toggle switch on the transmitter. There is a microswitch for lighting that you can use witht he receiver for the lighting control. You can be as simple as you like or into the deep end with RC. I start simple and add later.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have had to recently replace my transmitter as the throttle stick stopped transmitting motion for some reason...mighta had to do with me spilling a little boiler water on the front of it







it was a spektrum DX5e

...I also lost two of my Spektrum brand receivers though the cheap "orange" ones seem fine. I don't know if the heat got them or what but they do not work anymore. one of the working orange ones has a melted case, neither of the Spectrum receivers got that warm. The Orange receivers come form "Hobby King" in south east Asia and are really cheap but seem pretty good


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

and want to be able to have 2 different engineers run them 
Jim, 
I don't think we answered that particular question. 

As mentioned, the Spectrum DX6i TX can handle 'binding' to 10 different RX and can store their individual parameters. I use one and have 3 different locos configured in it. I also have a backup DX5e single channel TX (my DX6i had to go back for repair,) and that can handle any of my locos if I 'bind' each one separately to it. No separate parameters though. 

The Spektrum and other 2.4Ghz systems are designed to prevent more than one TX from controlling an RX, so 2 different TX will not be able to control the same loco RX without re-binding. 

The binding process is quick and simple, so one solution would be to make the RX accessible and just 'bind' a TX to the loco when you want to control it. 

The only other solution I can think of is the "one TX per RX" which is my solution for sparkies. 2.4GHz radios are now veryinexpensive - the DX4e is only $70 from Spectrum, and Tony has knowledge of several Hong Kong suppliers in the $50 range. I'm using $10 RX units which are 'Spektrum compatible' and work fine. (Just checked Hobby King and their complete system is $23.)


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The Hobby King stuff works just fine. However, HK have chopped and changed their systems a lot. EG. The six channel rig has had at least two iterations and neither will work with each other. 
Plus the 3 channel RX's will not work with a different HK transmitter and the 8 channel TX will not work the 6 channel RX's. 
I have also used the Planet line successfully except they had one batch of R6M RX's that behaved oddly at switch on and could destroy servo gearing. That seems to have been fixed with the latest batch here in OZ. 
So for now I am sticking with Spektrum. The el cheapo Orange RX's proven to be reliable as have the "fake" Spektrum RX's. Although I have had one Orange RX simply not work out of the box. 
I have no issues with non genuine RX's claiming to be DSM2 compatible, but draw the line at the makers trying to pass them off as genuine Spektrum.


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## TomecekJ (Feb 22, 2010)

Please forgive me, but I am new to RC control and I am at somewhat of a loss here. I need to operate 6 functions on my engine; throttle, forward and reverse, cylinder drain cocks, brakes, steam driven water pump, and the whistle. I have the Spektrum DX6i. The last outlet on the receiver is labelled AUX. I have not been able to get this to function for me no matter what I try on the transmitter. What am I doing wrong? I would also take any suggestions concerning which servo is best suited for which outlet on the receiver.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is how I set up my Dx6i to my receiver, 
Channel 1 (Throttle) for the steam valve. 
Channel 2 (Aileron) for the reverser. 
Channel 3 (Elevator) is not used. 
Channel 4 (Rudder) is not used. 
Channel 5 (Gear) an on/off function for the whistle. 
Channel 6 (Flap-Aux) is an on off funciton to operate a Pico switch to control the lights or drain cocks on or off.


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks guys! LOTS of good info here. 

When I build my railway I want to be able to invite friends over to run my Live Steam locomotives, as I live in a city barren of Live Steam operators.
Hopefully I'll make a couple of converts, as it's much more fun to run with someone else. 
So I'll need a minimum of 2 TX's, one for each engineer. 3 TX's would be ideal. 

I like Peters suggestion for the most versatility to just bind the loco chosen to run, right to the radio at the start of operations. 
That would mean each TX would have to have all the engines programmed into them, right? 
In order to save each engine's parameters on the radio? 
I just dial up the radio's memory to the engine cab number, then commence the binding process to the RX onboard the correct engine? 

I've got a DX6 TX with 2 - AR6000 Rx's. 
So in order to remain compatible with the 1st generation DSM technology, I need to get 
1- DX6 TX 
2- AR6000 RX's 
Then I'll be able to have 2 engineers run ANY one of 4 engines at the same time.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Why not use the flap for reverse forward? Did you take the spring off the aileron? I put a second ratchet on my Futaba 6EX on the elevator for reverse and foreward. 
Dave


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Many Live Steamers here in OZ use the elevator for the Johnson bar reverser as it provides a logical backwards and forwards motion and it allows control of the cut off and is trimmable. 
If you use one of the switches they will drive the servo from one extreme to the other and are not trimmable at will.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By roadranger on 24 Nov 2012 11:54 PM 


I've got a DX6 TX with 2 - AR6000 Rx's. 
So in order to remain compatible with the 1st generation DSM technology, I need to get 
1- DX6 TX 
2- AR6000 RX's 
Then I'll be able to have 2 engineers run ANY one of 4 engines at the same time. 

Jim, Not so easy. When you bind the receiver it is digitally bound to the transmitter and another transmitter cant control it. All your trim and settings of the servo control are stored in the transmitter. 
The way you want to be able to run and let other run too you would need then a radio for the other loco that is dedicated as they cant just switch from one to another without re binding to it and loosing all the settings.

I have 1 transmitter for all of my locos but if I were to rebind a receivber I need to reset the settings.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

That would mean each TX would have to have all the engines programmed into them, right? In order to save each engine's parameters on the radio? 
Jim, 
Afraid not. Every time you 'bind' you get a new clean memory so the parameters are all new, as Jason said. 

At $23 per system, you can equip each loco with a TX/RX pair. Then the operator just picks up whichever TX for the loco, and no changes are necessary. 

Tony indicates the pitfalls, but in your case you won't be swapping an 6-ch TX for an 8-ch, so compatibility isn't an issue.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The last outlet on the receiver is labelled AUX. I have not been able to get this to function for me no matter what I try on the transmitter. 
I've been intrigued by how bad the manual is for the DX6i. It assumes you are an expert airplane r/c user and know that AUX is also used for flaps!! 

Channel 5 (Gear) an on/off function for the whistle. Channel 6 (Flap-Aux) is an on off funciton 
I haven't tried this, but Carl's list shows the usage of the 6th RX socket. There are only two switches (among the multitude of un-referenced switches) that actually do someting to the airplane - gear (landing wheels) up/down and flaps (air brakes) up/down. Both switches are top left on your DX6i. 

Carl - is there a secret to making them actually do something on an AUX or GEAR RX socket? Do you have to enable them on the TX? I also assume an on/off switch means the servo goes to the opposite lock when you flip the switch?


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

Jason - So I've got 4 locos and 2 TX's. 
Can I bind all 4 locos onto the 10 model memory of EACH TX? 
Then TX A can dial up memory for engine #6 and TX B can dial up memory for engine #8 and run together? 

I don't want the aggravation and clutter of a TX for each loco...


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Tony, on almost all modern radios you can control the limits, on Futaba the it is EPA. On any function, it is always advisable to tune this way as if you are counting on a partial stick movement, if you exceed even slightly, you will stall the servo which will drain your battery and dramatically shorten the life of the servo. 


Dave


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## TomecekJ (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and insights. I needed to program my flap setting to get the AUX to function. 

Jeff


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Roadranger. As I understand it, with the DX6i you can program all four locos to *BOTH* TX's. The TX's will remember the particular parameters for each engine. 
Then simply bind whichever loco you want to the appropriate setting in whichever TX you want.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Then TX A can dial up memory for engine #6 and TX B can dial up memory for engine #8 and run together? 
Jim, 

You still have to perform a 'bind' using the bind plug - unless the loco happened to be 'bound' to that particular TX last time. Remember, the whole point of the digital radio is to prevent two TX from controlling the same RX. So if TX A is 'bound' to RX A, then TX B cannot ever control RX A, until you perform a 'bind' again. 
There may be an easy way for you perfom the 'bind' without exposing the RX every time. As I understand it, the bind plug connects the signal line to the power ground, then the TX sends a special signal saying "bind to me". No reason you can't run a pair of wires to an easily-accessible switch that performs the same function. Then you select 'memory 6' on TX A and tell loco RX 6 to bind to you by flipping the switch and holding the 'trainer' switch on the TX for a second or two. Could be very easy. 
The only issue with that is getting positive feedback. The led blinks until you bind, so it would be nice to see the blinking stop and know you are 'bound'. On my live steamer I cut (drilled) a hole in the top of the water tank so I can see the led !


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Pete, I already make a plug in # BINDER with a miniature SPDT switch on the end of the cable. This is to do precisely what you say so that various speed matched battery R/C locos can be linked to different TX's when used as helper locos. No reason you could not do the same thing with live steam. 
Yes, it would be nice to observe the RX LED when binding, but it can be done reliably without needing observation.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 27 Nov 2012 06:35 AM 
Hi Pete, I already make a plug in # BINDER with a miniature SPDT switch on the end of the cable. This is to do precisely what you say so that various speed matched battery R/C locos can be linked to different TX's when used as helper locos. No reason you could not do the same thing with live steam. 
Yes, it would be nice to observe the RX LED when binding, but it can be done reliably without needing observation. 

Tony, I thought it was too obvious to be a new idea! 
After I wrote about seeing the LED, I remembered I drilled the hole so I could see the RX sunc to the TX when I tuned them on. My TX had a problem and had to be repaired because it wouldn't sync. If I had to bind every time, it would be useful for that.
No reason a fiber-optic strand couldn't do the same job if the RX is hidden away in the tender.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Question for the group.....Is there a way to control two different channels with one lever on a Dx6i?.....I am considering a live steam multi bogie locomotive application where the reverser would be bogie mounted, with only a wired connection between main loco frame and the articulated power bogie. I need to be able to adjust each bogie independently (by use of separate channel for each), but then once adjusted be able to control reversing with one single lever for both bogies. 
I'm open to any other options folks can think of to accomplish the same result.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By clifforddward on 27 Nov 2012 08:28 AM 
Question for the group.....Is there a way to control two different channels with one lever on a Dx6i?.....I am considering a live steam multi bogie locomotive application where the reverser would be bogie mounted, with only a wired connection between main loco frame and the articulated power bogie. I need to be able to adjust each bogie independently (by use of separate channel for each), but then once adjusted be able to control reversing with one single lever for both bogies. 
I'm open to any other options folks can think of to accomplish the same result. 
The DX6i has mixing capability might do as you ask, but it would be easier to install the servo the same for each bogie, and then adjust it mechanically. A simple Y connector would be used to run the servos off one channel. Mixing channels for the newbie to R/C can be frustrating, and also consider the mixing software in the radio is designed for planes and helicopters which is not always what is needed for model trains.

For my reverse function on my DX6 and DX7 radios I use the three position switch for FWD, Neutral, and Reverse it seems to work fine for me. Throttle on the left stick.

Steve


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I think there are "Y" wiring harnesses which would allow you to run two servos off one channel...you would need some other form of adjustement to get it all fine tuned. I would use a mechanical adjustment.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Steve, I'll go investigate mixing and see if it will provide the independent adjustment I am looking for. I do not know about mixing, but sounds like I need to learn! 

I should have probably mentioned before that the servos to operate the reverser on each power bogie are located on the bogie frames. This avoids the major headache of mechanical reverser linkage between main frame and two independent articulated bogies. 

I have already considered mechanical adjustments on each bogie, just not sure it will be possible or provide the flexibility I am looking for. 

I want to be able to adjust things like end point, rate of throw, etc, to be able to balance for what I anticipate may be differences between the two power bogies since they will be facing opposite directions.....one will be running in reverse when the other is running in forward as the locomotive moves in a particular direction. Probably near impossible to expect them to run the same under these conditions....I was hoping to be able to use input adjustments to help balance them.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I want to be able to adjust things like end point, rate of throw, etc, to be able to balance for what I anticipate may be differences between the two power bogies since they will be facing opposite directions 
Cliff, 
Won't these adjustments only apply when you are 'tuning' the new chassis? After you get them right, you will leave the adjustments and just run the servo fwd-reverse ? If s, a "Y" cable to te two servos, and mechanical tuning should get you what you want and will reduce the TX adjustment.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

It is possible you are correct Pete...but I wanted to explore the ability to correct matters and balance operation after the power bogies are in place if possible. Balancing of the steam from one bogie to the other is easily accomplished with an inline valve...but the reversing issue was a bit more complicated....I spent some time this afternoon investigating the "Mixing" function on our Dx6i systems....turns out it does exactly what I am looking for. Typically not a factor for our live steam locomotive application, but then there are not so many locomotives that run double bogies back-to-back either. In this case I am considering a build of a double Fairlie, along the lines of something like the Festiniog "Little Wonder" in 7/8" scale...am even considering coal firing which I think I have worked out as very workable. 

Turns out reversing linkage is one of the big bears to be dealt with when building articulated locomotives... 

Thanks to all for the leads and ideas on the reversing....all good food for thought


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

In reality, even two mismatched engines (power bogies) will run fine together. unlike electric motors in a model train, the steam engines will do what is needed to run together. one may pull a little more than the other but they will run the same speed. 

I think you need not worry overmuch about adjustments. get them set up reasonably close and you will be fine. if you get the reversers so they are fully in gear at the close to same servo setting forward and revers you should be fine. 

I fairly often run two separate engines together double heading and they work just fine.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you for the comment Eric...I appreciate your perspective.


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 26 Nov 2012 09:26 AM 
Then TX A can dial up memory for engine #6 and TX B can dial up memory for engine #8 and run together? 
Jim, 

You still have to perform a 'bind' using the bind plug - unless the loco happened to be 'bound' to that particular TX last time. Remember, the whole point of the digital radio is to prevent two TX from controlling the same RX. So if TX A is 'bound' to RX A, then TX B cannot ever control RX A, until you perform a 'bind' again. 
There may be an easy way for you perfom the 'bind' without exposing the RX every time. As I understand it, the bind plug connects the signal line to the power ground, then the TX sends a special signal saying "bind to me". No reason you can't run a pair of wires to an easily-accessible switch that performs the same function. Then you select 'memory 6' on TX A and tell loco RX 6 to bind to you by flipping the switch and holding the 'trainer' switch on the TX for a second or two. Could be very easy. 
The only issue with that is getting positive feedback. The led blinks until you bind, so it would be nice to see the blinking stop and know you are 'bound'. On my live steamer I cut (drilled) a hole in the top of the water tank so I can see the led ! 




Pete - This sounds like a solution to my problem! "Remember all locos on all TX's, then bind the engine wanted to run to whatever TX you're using.

Tony - Can I order those binding switches separately from you?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Jim. 
Yes I could supply the # BINDER direct but if you ordered via the PayPal shopping cart you will get slugged a postage charge by my website software. 
Drop me a line via E mail and we can work out how to supply you post free. 
OR!! 
You could easily make one for yourself. All you need is a standard servo lead and a small SPDT switch. Use only the two outside wires of the servo lead and connect them to the middle terminal and either one of the outside terminals of the switch. Leave the centre wire in the loom but cut it back a bit. 
In one position the switch is on for binding and in the other, it is off.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

All you need is a standard servo lead 
Jim 
My r/c tore sells 'servo extender' leads, with a plug on one end and a socket on the other. Or you can use a spare 'bind' plug (I seem to be acumulating lots - one for each RX!,) and just put the switch into the loop of wire on the plug. You'll probably have to extend it with a 'servo extender though!) Your other issue is finding a spare channel to plug it in to.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete.
The binder switch would be permanently plugged into the binder - battery socket, so requiring the batteries to be plugged into a different socket. It doesn't matter which one of course, as the + and - connections are all wired together in the RX. However, perhaps finding a vacant socket for the batteries could be a valid point.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 29 Nov 2012 03:16 PM 
Pete.
The binder switch would be permanently plugged into the binder - battery socket, so requiring the batteries to be plugged into a different socket. It doesn't matter which one of course, as the + and - connections are all wired together in the RX. However, perhaps finding a vacant socket for the batteries could be a valid point.


Tony, 
If you (or Jim) are going to add a switch to the binder plug, then presumably you could add the battery leads as well and make it double-duty, thus saving a socket on the RX? 

Or (vice versa) add the bind plug & switch option to the battery plug on the RX.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I haven't seen this being mentioned: You can bind 2 RX's to one TX and use different channels for both RX. If you have a loco where you only need one or two channels, you can use the remaining channels for other locos. You can run them at the same time or individually without having to rebind or reload parameters. At least this worked with the original DX6, I am not sure if the new ones can do the same trick. I used this to run 4 locos on 2 transmitters.
Regards


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Good idea Pete. 
The easy way to do that would be to use a servo Y cable such as a Hi-Tec # 57351


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

You can bind 2 RX's to one TX and use different channels for both RX 
Henner, 
That sounds clever. I can see that you could use 2 channels (=functions) on one RX and a different two on the other, and then bind both to the same TX memory. But I don't see how you control them - left stick up/down for throttle and let/right for direction, and the same on the other stick for the other loco?


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete,
I use this only for locos, where one valve controls speed and direction like wobblers and Ruby type valve gears. So only one channel is used/loco. The right vertical stick controls #1, the left #2. For the Accucraft 4-4-0 I use a separate TX with 2 channels for speed and direction. You could use up/down for speed and left/right for direction with the left and right stick for locos with Stephenson/Walschaert gears. But as these are usually running fairly fast, I run them with individual TXs.
Regards


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