# Train Auction - April 30



## applegeekz (Nov 27, 2012)

There is an auction at liveauctioneers...many goodies. Check it out if you are interested. 

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/catalog/87545_train-and-doll-auction/


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

With their packing and commission, it gets pretty pricey.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Looks like some very nice items with very little information.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, there is some nice stuff.


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

When looking through the auction catalog, I noticed that several Asters were the electric version not live steam. The description did not always make it clear. Nothing wrong with an electric Aster but it would be very disappointing to place an online bid only to get the wrong thing. 

It would have been helpful if the auction house gave decent descriptions and images. Doing it the way they have should ensure low prices. I wish I was free to cross the Atlantic to participate in this turkey shoot.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Andrew,

What do you want for 26% commission? Accurate descriptions? Manuals? Nice sized pictures? As is, baby...whatever that is or was.... It makes eBay system look like an amazing bargain......


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

One can _hope_ that the prices for anything that one may want are on the low side, though who knows what will happen!

I am reminded that the Glenn Reid auction offered some bargains, but also some prices that were on the high side.

Cheers,

Joe


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Joe,

Unlike the Reid auction, these guys unfortunately don't seem to have a person there who really knows what they're selling. 

The Aster Climax appears to be the electric version with a picturedd box indicating to the contrary....A J&M coach confusing identified as a NYC coach but correctly listed as Broadway limited...and in goes on...I tried to email them to correct. Hopefully, they get them all corrected...... Also, mentioned that they should add a few more pics and details manuals,tools, etc. Their attempt, although somewhat quick, did not really seem to demonstrate an understanding of the importance of some of this....

Of course, they did protect themselves with the old "as is" language...

Good luck,
Sam


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Sam,

One would almost think that you'd want the estimated prices to go up... 

Those who know what they are looking at will undoubtedly drive the estimates through the roof. 

As-is, where-is are the best words to those looking to not pay through the nose for some otherwise choice, if not eclectic gauge one items from this collection. I'd imagine we shall see prices similar to the reid auction with the...ahem, large public coverage this now has. 

The J&M NYC combine with the Air conditioning duct is interesting, I have only seen one other like it in the flesh, good to know they are not a one off, although it is still not even close to correct.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Ryan,
I think I'm staying out of that one. Big errors, like many I discovered, tend to bother me especially for potentially expensive items like many of those listed...I already have enough large engines to bend my back to breaking....one more on the buy/wait list...the 611. After that I'll be investing in a crane to help me get them to the track....

I hope you pick up all the bargains that Joe doesn't get...

Sam


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Looks like they are awakening thanks to input from the field most likely. Perhaps they received a dose of L-Dopa?

The K4s is no longer Juwiata but rather Juniata and the auction house is adding better quality photos now and more of them. Details of the backhead are being added and some minor blemishes are being shown. Looks like the LS Big Boy will have to be cleaned up a little.

I haven't lifted a finger to help. 

More bids are coming in. Are we bidding against one another? 

I am of two minds on these kind of things.

The part of me that wants a bargain wants to see low prices. The part of me that would like to preserve the illusion that we are wise investors and collectors with discernment wants to see high prices.

I do not know what to think about this situation . . . and neither do I. 

Cheers,

Joe


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Of course there will be bidding against one another. It is just the nature of it now that the auction has more exposure. Of course it is likely that there would be people bidding against one another anyway as it is an auction, not a private sale.

Just know there will be lots more auctions like this in the future as the older members either divest their collections for other interests, or unfortunately take a one way trip away from the hobby. 

Example: There was a time when K4's were highly sought after and rarely came up for market. Now they are steadily coming in at the rate of about 1 per every month or two, both auction and ebay, along with private estate sales. There were some 350 made in live steam after all!


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

rbednarik said:


> Of course there will be bidding against one another. It is just the nature of it now that the auction has more exposure. Of course it is likely that there would be people bidding against one another anyway as it is an auction, not a private sale.
> 
> Just know there will be lots more auctions like this in the future as the older members either divest their collections for other interests, or unfortunately take a one way trip away from the hobby.
> 
> Example: There was a time when K4's were highly sought after and rarely came up for market. Now they are steadily coming in at the rate of about 1 per every month or two, both auction and ebay, along with private estate sales. There were some 350 made in live steam after all!


You are correct, Ryan.

My post above was intended to be read tongue-in-cheek.

I have reflected that the few older locomotives I have acquired - and probably some of the coaching stock have come from estates of those who have passed on. It's in the natural order of things.

It is interesting to see how these auctions play out even while sitting on the sidelines. Enjoy!

Cheers,

Joe


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

*Auction*

Don't look for the low estimates to hold. The Dreweatts auction (Tuesday) with many properly described live steamers had similar low estimates. There, the *opening* bids often exceeded estimates, and the final bids were often several times the estimated sale prices.

Dreweatts also had a high buyer premium and the cost to ship even a small Roundhouse loco was 120 Pounds Sterling. 

Here, if you have a question about a particular item, call the auction house directly (do not call Live Auctioneers). With only 2 days before the auction, the auction house will not produce a revised catalog. 

Will


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Will,

You are correct. Good prices achieved across all scales and sizes at the Drewearts sale but then an entire collection wasn't dumped onto the market in one hit. 
I purchased the Queen Victoria's Dining Saloon for GBPounds 320 but the stinger came in the buyers premium which made it GBPounds 420! But at least the item description was good and the online images were excellent so I know what I will get will be OK.

When a 'single owner' sale was carried out last year consisting of mostly Gauge 1 and some 5 and 7 1/4 inch models, sales were poor. Minimum reserves were not met because far too much came along in one auction sale. This was the collection of Pete Waterman, a record producer and well known UK train enthusiast.

Andrew


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

I took a quick stroll through the Drewearts results reporting and I have just a couple of observations . . .

Your Queen Victoria Dining car seems like a gem, Andrew.

The prices of the stationary steam engines seemed a bit on the low side. Ebay would probably have brought in more money for the seller.

As was the case here, the larger scale locomotives often go for prices much less than for gauge one considering what one gets pound for pound. (Pun intended.) I suppose that it comes down to the original builder having had a passion that needed fulfillment during one's lifetime - and possibly a venue to run these large locomotives whereas relatively few of us have sufficient real estate or display space for a collection of 5" or & 7 1/2" scale models.

I expect the estimates for the Opfer auction to be very low when compared with the selling price.

Cheers,

Joe


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

So I imagine (according to the "terms"), if you go to Timonium, you can forgo the 26% online buyers premium... Anyone going?


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

seadawg said:


> So I imagine (according to the "terms"), if you go to Timonium, you can forgo the 26% online buyers premium... Anyone going?


The in-house buyer's premium is 23% which can go down to 20% if one pays cash - assuming I am reading the T&Cs correctly. It would mean something if one were leaving with a trailer full of goodies. 

One would also save packing and shipping charges and that can be significant.

Cheers,

Joe


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Joe

OTOH if you are present you get to pay 6% to the Peoples Democratic Republic of Maryland.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Good points Joe and Jim. I was semi-tempted to go up and spend some dough I ain't got, but with 26% still tacked on, the semi drops to un.

Cliff

Ps, and here I've always thought it was just the Peoples Republic of Maryland. Maybe PDRM is the more official title? Learn something new every day.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

So with all the complaining of the descriptions and titles, to be fixed who is actually bidding online or going. Of course all that did for the rest if the internet is ensure there will be no deals and a lot of bidding wars as everyone on here knew what it all is.

Expensive to buy in person at 29% with tax on a credit card. Cash is 26% total and just ask about a check. HAHAH 

A 2000.00 bid is 2580.00 after the fees. Can save online at 26% with paying by paypal but then wacked with shipping and packing fees and if its like the Reid auction you'll get broken items as most I know did from piss poor packing.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, nobody will be bidding against me.....


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Some of the (nice wooden) box nameplates are intriguing. Like, made for "Row & Co., Eureka Ca." Couldn't find any Google ref on them. Or, "08 of 10, Museum." Sounds like limited edition to me. Maybe some might be really rare collectibles, and worth far more than the expected sales prices of $1k (for the big ones). I have no experience with Samhongsa though, and no frame of reference on what the value is.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Jason,

That's why I drove to Detroit to pick my Reid purchases up......glad I did from the sound of it. It is too far to MD this time...and the train shelves are more than full right now....plus the train budget is already spoken for....

Cliff, there is a lot of very rare stuff there. The Row & Company stuff goes back to Dr Row (Dentist in Eureka,CA) who created a company to fulfill his railroad desires in Gauge 1. He had an amazing collection in his own right. I believe most of his stuff was done by Samhongsa. Some of the Bockholt stuff is extremely rare and was very pricey when released. So, yes, I'm confident that a lot of that will go for well over their estimates....


Sam


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for that background info, Sam. 

Not to be preachy, but if, for example, someone snags an item for 1/4 its actual value, that makes the shipping & tax and & dealer fee irrelevant...


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

I wonder who among us is/was in attendance at the auction today?

It would be interesting to have a first-hand report of the in-room experience overall. As my interest in dolls, miniature dollhouse ice cream makers and tiny potbelly stoves. including tin plate trains, Lionel and the other items is rather low, I stayed logged in for the first 150 lots only. 

To some, no doubt, only the dolls were the treasures in the room. 

Most of the bidding was dominated by people who either were present or on the phone. There were obviously disciplined professionals with money to spend at the venue as the bidding was locally brisk and active up to a point where only those with an emotional attachment to a specific item would remain and go on to win. The "pros" will be taking most of the stuff home.

The live steam Big Boy went for $7,500.00 x 1.26 = $9,450.00 plus tax if applicable and S&H. Curiously on the BB, most of the activity was remote via liveauctioneers, so this suggest to me that the BB, though probably fine, may need a little TLC.

The AD60 Beyer-Garratt also went for $7,500 plus with interest in the room and from the cybersphere as well.

The 232U.1 went for $6,000.00 x 1.26 = $7,560.00 plus S&H, etc, so a fair to good price?

An S2/6 went for $3,000.00 plus, etc.

A K4s went for around $2,700.00, plus, if I recall.

I was surprised that the Chapelon Nord Pacific electric model went for $3,750.00 x 1.26 = $4,725.00 plus S&H, etc. I was prepared to buy it for a little less owing to my attachment to that particular model and at $3,500.00 I was second to the last bidder, or last-loser, if you prefer. 

Probably, most of you think that I got off lucky. 

J&Ms?

The PRR "Federal Hall" observation car went for $1,100.00 x 1.26 = $1,368.00 plus S&H.

(I bought "Liberty Hall" through Ebay not long ago for $770.00 including S&H.)

The four NYC models:

"Catskill Valley" obs. car went for only $600.00 plus
"Van Cortland" baggage car with optional A/C went for $1,000.00 plus
"Pullman "Rome" went for $600.00 plus
Dining car 387 went for 750.00 x 1.26 = $945.00 plus

To me the rarest of the lot was the 1260P Fourgon Truck in blue.

Some fool actually bought the thing for $1,900.00 x 1.26 = $2,394.00 plus. Don't worry, I won't embarrass anyone by revealing his name. Someone else wanted it pretty bad as well.

(One of these sold for $2,500.00 in the past year.)

I think the advertising we've done here probably helped the estate a bit and so, I chalk it up to a worthy cause.

Cheers,

Joe


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Beauty and value are in the eye of the beholder or the one who desires it. I over paid for an abused locomotive, one of maybe 50 that were hand made. I re-finished the the body, the creator rebuilt the engine, modified the transmission from the original design for an improvement he felt was necessary. I modified the drive to accommodate his upgrade. I now I have one of a maybe two locomotives. Granted, not original, but the locomotive, interface with the creator and experience are still PRICELESS TO ME. LG


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Nick Jr said:


> Beauty and value are in the eye of the beholder or the one who desires it. I over paid for an abused locomotive, one of maybe 50 that were hand made. I re-finished the the body, the creator rebuilt the engine, modified the transmission from the original design for an improvement he felt was necessary. I modified the drive to accommodate his upgrade. I now I have one of a maybe two locomotives. Granted, not original, but the locomotive, interface with the creator and experience are still PRICELESS TO ME. LG


I agree with everything you've said above, Nick.

Cheers,

Joe


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Was fun to watch for a bit. I was interested in the Aster Climax, mogul, and a live steam K27. But, they got over my limit pretty quickly! The K27, Aster I think, went for $1k as I recall, a good deal I'd imagine.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

CliffyJ said:


> Was fun to watch for a bit. I was interested in the Aster Climax, mogul, and a live steam K27. But, they got over my limit pretty quickly! The K27, Aster I think, went for $1k as I recall, a good deal I'd imagine.


 
All you listed were electrics, The Magnus K27 that was listed as live steam but an electric went pretty high for a 1:22 model. 

Climax I think was high, I sold a brand new electric one for 1300 and barely got that. The Commodore Vanderbuit I had one many years ago and couldn't give it away and finally sold for like 1800. This one opened at over 2k and kept climbing.

I was surprised to see the 1:24 PSC K27 all go for crazy money too. Usually sell in ebay for 1200-1600. Same for that lot of 1:24 freight cars. Almost 1k for the 8 cars granted they were scratchbuilt.

I was there, went and pretty much all went way over my budget. Some got good deals but not many much was up near retail or over. I planned to bid on the J&M coaches but all went over my limit of 500 plus fees. 

A good laugh was the Aster LS Bigboy, he calls out and says its missing a few small parts, the grates and the burner we were told. But its no big deal. HAHA 

Lots went to just a couple people there for resale I assume so expect to see a number of it on Ebay in the next few days. Not much but a handful of the lot went to internet bidders.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Thanks for sharing your observations Jason.

I suspected that something was not quite right with the Big Boy as all the bids (or most of them) for the BB came from the Internet whereas all of the other sought-after items were dominated by the floor.

Perhaps Aster will have some of what is missing?

I'd like to put in a plug for Andrew (Aster UK) here . . .

I bought the Nord I have from Andrew as well as the 232U.1. Andrew was able to obtain and furnish a replacement tender step for the Nord and an electrification warning sign and new coal conversion kit for the 232U.1. I was pleasantly surprised that such items were still on the shelf in Japan after all these years.

I am sure Hans can provide similar service here in the States. I wish the new BB owner good luck!

Jason, I am sure it was disappointing for you to make a trip and see the items of interest sell at "retail" pricing.

I have no knowledge of the value of fine electric models from Samshonga (whether Row or no Row,) Bockholt, Fine Arts, among others.

I note that a Fine Art M1A and other Fine Art locomotives went for far less than they are currently being offered elsewhere.

Bockholts also sold for less than prices I have seen them listed around the Net.

Cheers,

Joe


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe wasn't disappointing, I was more shocked that the prices on a bit were way over real values with fees and tax. Like I said we will see what shows up on Ebay just like a lot of the Reid stuff. Actually there is still some of the Reid stuff on Ebay today. 

I only really only wanted the K4 and J&M but the coaches went for more than I wanted to spend, I have too much to do to finish my house and to finish my railroad so I can run what I own already! And that's where my money has been going, not into trains.

Ill wait as J&M always show up for sale 5-600. **** 3 PRR ones just sold for 1500 last month. And at York another few traded too. Patience pays off. 

On the Bigboy, I know Hans had grates cut in SS for all the locos but I highly doubt that there is a burner available. Last production was 86'??


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a Big Boy gas burner if needed.

Thanks for the kind words Joe. I do my best for customers if I can and Hans does likewise. I am only helping N American customer who buy pre-owned Asters from me. Hans deals with all the regular stuff.

Aster Hobby Co have a lot of spares so its always worth asking. However they do not supply folks who are scratch building.


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Please be aware that the BB gas burner is now sold. Thank you.

AsterUK


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