# Phoenix BigSound 2K2 questions



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I seem to have acquired a couple of these sound boards, but can't get a peep out of them. The Handbook on the Phoenix site helps, but leaves me with a few questions.

1. Do you have to have a 3.6V battery hooked up to the battery connector in order to get any sound out of the board? Can you use a 4.8V r/c battery?

2. One of the diagrams shows a 20V r/c battery connected to the 3.6V battery connector, with just the motor connected to the main power pins (1,2) presumably for voltage-dependent chuffing. Does this work?

Any thoughts on how I can test these boards? I've tried a few different speakers and batteries.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I assume you have the manual, since the reference about 20v hooked the the battery input is on page 16.. (my manual is dated October 2007)

1. no, yes
2. use this for testing, but note that the board could be programmed only for a chuff trigger, so you might simulate that... also you may need access to the programmer to set it up.

Any luck with the troubleshooting from page 19?

Greg


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Any luck with the troubleshooting from page 19?


Well, one board does seem to work. I reworked the wiring (I don't think it has been touched for 10 years,) and it woke up. Bell, chuff and whistle work, although at very high volume. The volume up/down doesn't pay any attention to the switch or to a wire poked in the board connector. More investigation is obviosly needed.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Will the on-board charging circuit supply enough voltage to charge a 4.8 volt battery or will it gradually loose its existing "pre-charge" over time?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

disconnect the switch and jumper accordingly, don't trust the switch just yet.

Todd, you actually asked 2 quesitons.

I think the charging circuit is tuned for three 1.2 volt batteries, and normally they charge at 1.4 per cell, so I would think that it would not charge the higher voltage pack, which normally would be charged at 6 volts or more.

Will it eventually lose charge over time, of course! And I suspect you are segwaying into using a cap instead of a battery... this would also hinge on how long the standing sounds would be required in a DC track powered installation.

Of course, in a battery installation it is irrelevant.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Page 3 bottom paragraph of Phoenix manual suggests to have the track voltage at 8V to charge the battery. And what a coincidence, just this morning I dug out my old Compaq lap top that has the 2k2 software, and it still works. You can see from the top bar which loco I was working on. And the batteries that come with them are very durable, have several I haven't used in 10+ years and they take the charge like it was yesterday. Only the one in the Hudson refused to come back.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

toddalin said:


> Will the on-board charging circuit supply enough voltage to charge a 4.8 volt battery or will it gradually loose its existing "pre-charge" over time?


I assume it won't charge it properly. Pity they decided not to use standard r/c 4-cell packs; I've got lots of them! I wonder if I can make a 3-cell out of one.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> And what a coincidence, just this morning I dug out my old Compaq lap top that has the 2k2 software,


I found the software available for free download on Phoenix's website. I also have the programming jack in the tender that it came from.

SO - - - Anyone have an old Phoenix USB interface cable? Or how about a wiring diagram so I can make one!


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Will it eventually lose charge over time, of course! And I suspect you are segwaying into using a cap instead of a battery...


Not at all. I don't change these on my two Phoenix 2K2s. Their batteries seem to last forever for me and have yet to refuse to take a charge even after sitting all year.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, once you receive your interface cable you will see why it is appropriately named Plug & Play. I can easily spend an hour experimenting to see what the different options sound like. Again this one sat 10+ years and still accepted a charge.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would be tempted to just use 2 of the 1 farad supercaps in series in lieu of a battery. No long term maintenance would be needed.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, maybe not a bad idea, but since I only had to replace one battery out of the 6 loco's I'm not considering it. I was told the different battery types require different charging technique, and the Phoenix board is different than Sierra. I'm not qualified to make that assumption, but maybe someone much more familiar with those circuits (toddalin) could respond to that.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Would be nice to know if this is track or battery power... if battery power, no extra caps or battery is needed.

Greg


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

TODDALIN are you out there?? Need your expertise here!!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The only questions from Pete is how to make work, and he got one working, so he can use that test setup to test the other ones.

The other question Pete asked is can he make a 3 cell from a 4 cell pack, yes, easily, open it up and separate the 4th cell... should be fine with either nicad or nimih batteries.

The other statement by Pete was about the volume switch... it might be stuck in one position, not allowing the volume changes, remove it and try manually with jumpers.

Greg


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I don't know if the Phoenix is "robust" enough to take the initial charge on a dead cap. But if one were to put a series resistor in place, it would probably work .I don't know what value one would use, but I think 10 ohms would be more than enough.

The Sierras will tolerate the supercaps, even without the resistor. But if you run right at a speed where it verges on continually charging and discharging, eventually it will overheat and you will burn out the Sierra.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

toddalin, thank you for your expertise AGAIN, always something of value to add. The way the NiMH's come back I've only had to replace 1 in all these years, can't complain about that. Stay Well.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, speaking of the volume switch, refer to page 4, switch must be held in position till it reaches the volume you want. It can get quite loud. Have you found the USB interface cable?


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> if this is track or battery power.


It is track powered, an old Bachmann 4-4-0 that we got in pieces to resurrect another old 4-4-0 that had been dropped (and probably trampled on!) Somebody really wanted to dismantle it!










Fortunately we found enough bits to make 2 whole locos, though one isn't a pure B'mann 4-4-0. I think Tim is making it a CH&N 4-4-0 as he is short of many detail parts.
The other one is an E&P "Eureka" and we have most of the bits, including a complete boiler with all the electrics in it. Someone removed the pcb that feeds the boiler from the frame, and the gear was split, but that was easy to fix. Polishing the bell and boiler bands is going to be fun.










But I digress. Having no knowledge of supercaps, and as all my NiMH packs are for r/c locos so none could be sacrificed, I bought a 3.6V pack from Tenergy. (Nick's experience was the clincher.)


Nick Jr said:


> refer to page 4, switch must be held in position till it reaches the volume you want


The volume is interesting. I removed the volume switch and also was trying a different speaker and the sound lowered. With the old speaker re-fitted with the old switch it is very loud. So as everything else is working, I will assume the switch works (or I will replace it) when this is all put back together in the tender.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, dismantled is certainly what they did. I wonder what they had in mind when they did that? Small consideration, hope they saved all the screws? I'm sure before all is said and done you will be posting a video of the loco strutting it's stuff down the track. Please keep us informed either here or start another thread of it's own. Stay Safe.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Another mystery solved. 
This tip is on Greg's website (thank you Greg) and I happened to notice it when reading everything I could about this 2K2.










My 3.6V battery just arrived, and one of the 2K2 had the battery cable, so I checked it before wiring it to the battery.










Now does that look like the bad one in Greg's photo?

I had plugged in a 4.8V r/c battery early in my exploration and nothing happened. This probably explains why. Very strange.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

In my few minutes of train time, I hooked it up and reversed the battery wires to the new battery. Worked like a charm - started charging and when I dropped the 12V supply the sound continued for a few seconds.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, these batteries are sold for a few different applications, mostly phones. Last one I bought even had a different type of connector. Always a good idea to check polarity before connecting. You were posting the answer to my ?? even before I asked it. Good Show, how's the physical build going??


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> how's the physical build going?


I'll start a new thread, as I probably have enough photos to make it interesting. . .


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, looking forward to it, thank you.


----------

