# Welder light/circuit



## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

I have this Preiser figure (the seated one) and would like to add a light to simulate a welder: 










Looking at the Walther's catalog, there are several circuits and styles available..from Busch, G-R-S, Miniatronics, Ram Track, and Circuitron 

And I found these online: Iron Penguin, and Berkshire Junction 

Some use LED's while others use bulbs. I was wondering what might be best for G scale? 

The LED sets seem to all use 3mm LEDs which seems a bit big to use out in the open, and not hidden in a building. The bulb sets sound interesting as the micro bulbs might be small enough to put right up against the G scale figure's welding tip. 

Has anyone here modeled a welder with flickering light? What did you use, and how did you cover the circuit components to survive the elements?


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Like this?? 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/dawinter/Men at work.AVI 


1mm blue LED and an old radio. That's it.  

Have a ball. 

Dave


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmmm.. yeah Dave, I thought those guys looked familiar..


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice movie clip Dave. You've got the "modern" guys with hard hats  

I've read about using a radio many many years ago for an HO layout. Just didn't think it would be very weather proof /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif 

I like the tanks behind the figures. Hand made, or are those offered by a company?


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

The tanks are built from bits and pieces formerly found in my junk box. (Is anything REALLY junk?) 

Some heavy wire is bent and soldered into the shape of a dolly. Some costume jewelry lost it's chains and some decal tape found use as a leather/wire strap. Some Hot Wheels found a new home. The valve covers are from the ends of some felt markers. The air lines are red/black wire and the valves are from air hoses. 

Oh right. The tanks are just painted dowels. Too big but... 










The blue LED is wired to the spkr out-put of an old radio and stuffed up inside a plastic pipe so the end is under the 'welders' mitts. 

It was a day long project because I spent most of the time looking for shapes. 

Have a ball 

Dave


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, I used the Busch unit and it works very well.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Dave, 
That sup, should have goggles on if he doesn't want his retinas burnt out!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I use "relay chatter" on the body shop module for the Del Oro Pacific (just the cost of the LED, a relay, a capacitor, and a resistor). 
Not only do I get the welding flash (super bright LED), but you can hear the relay chatter resonating though the wood giving it a distinctive sound of its own (actually sounds like a pneumatic gun installing lug nuts).


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 04/22/2008 9:46 AM
I use "relay chatter" on the body shop module for the Del Oro Pacific (just the cost of the LED, a relay, a capacitor, and a resistor). 
Not only do I get the welding flash (super bright LED), but you can hear the relay chatter resonating though the wood giving it a distinctive sound of its own (actually sounds like a pneumatic gun installing lug nuts).





What a great idea! Probably a lot more dramatic than the radio I use. Must try 

Dave


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By dawinter on 04/22/2008 11:12 AM
Posted By toddalin on 04/22/2008 9:46 AM 
I use "relay chatter" on the body shop module for the Del Oro Pacific (just the cost of the LED, a relay, a capacitor, and a resistor). 
Not only do I get the welding flash (super bright LED), but you can hear the relay chatter resonating though the wood giving it a distinctive sound of its own (actually sounds like a pneumatic gun installing lug nuts).

What a great idea! Probably a lot more dramatic than the radio I use. Must try 
Dave




Yes, quite dramatic. But of course, as always, we go "One Step Beyond." 

The shop where the guy is welding is lit up. The "other side" of the relay carries the shop lights so that when the welder is on, the lights are off and vice versa. Voltage is also directly fed to the shop lights though a resistor giving a nice warm glow. 

So, when the relay fires and the welder flashes, the shop lights dim simultaneously (direct power is lost to the lights that are still supplied though the resistor), and it looks like the welder is taking current needed for the shop as would be expected with a high amperage arc welder. Of course when the shop lights dim simultaneous with the welder flash, this also make the flash stand out even more.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Some great and economical ideas here. Thanks all. 

I also found this (Arc Welder) which is very pricey, but has sound too. And if anyone doesn't want to build their own welding tanks, Ozark Miniatures makes a set. Here's a link (Ozark Welding rig & cart. There's a photo on page 8 of their downloadable catalog. 

I have one other question. A small LED looks to be the best for my setup. I'm just wondering what color would look the right for a late 1940s era welder. I looked online about the history of welding, and while there are many great resources, none seem to mention what the color of the flame means and what color was prevalent in the past. 

I'm guessing it's like chemistry class, and certain gaseous mixes and temperatures result in the various colors. So what color should I go for? Blue? White? Yellow? LEDs are easy to get, I just need to know what color would look best, and most effective in G scale. Likely has to be a super bright LED to show up well enough outdoors.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay, since you asked.... 

Oxyfuel welders such as the original figure had, do NOT flash, period. You want a nice steady crisp light blue "cone" of flame (the size of which varies with the tip size) which is where the heat is concentrated and the actual welding is done, the rest of the flame is a pale straw yellow, the whole thing is actually nearly invisible in bright daylight. The molten puddle of steel is a VERY bright sunshine yellow - almost white, fading to a a dull red farther out, and a purple/bluish discolored area of heat affected zone beyond that. To weld with oxyfuel you need darkish goggles. 

Electric arc welders SHOULD have a blue/white mostly steady color with occasional brighter flash, and occasional bright yellow spark "spatters" if you hit a bad spot. The average 12" welding rod will burn for about 30 seconds to a minute before you have to stop and change rods, at which time you usually chip and grind slag and allow the metal being welded to cool a bit to prevent warping. Arc welding has been around for some time, but didn't become common until about WWII. The weldor usually wears a full face hood to do this kind of work. 

Wire feed welders which didn't come into common use until recently (say mid 60's) can run for longer periods. 

Oxyfuel rig on a cart







older carts were a bit smaller and had cast iron wheels (never wood, it burns) 

Older (say mid 60's) industrial arc welder







This would be found in a factory or repair shop. "Farm" units are smaller and simpler. 


modern wire feed welder









Now, my grandfather used to own a WWII era engine driven welder which used to be quite common on job sites. It consisted of a box about 6 feet long, 2 feet deep and 3 feet high mounted on a 2 or 4 wheel trailer. The box originally had louvered side covers which were often removed. Inside was an inline flathead 6 cylinder gasoline engine attached to a large can shaped dynamo, and a big square rectifier box (with a large wood rimmed handwheel on one side to set the amperage). Modern engine driven welders are STILL a big box on wheels (with fenders, lol) but with a diesel engine and modern controls similar to what is used on the regular industrial units 

Modern Miller engine driven welder









Also (to REALLY confuse the issue), before bottled gas was common (say in the teens), many places used an acetylene generator (which dripped water onto a cake of carbide to produce the acetylene gas) to supply gas to a fuel/air torch (similar to oxyfuel, but only one hose). These things were FUN, as the flame could burn back INSIDE the hose and if it reached the generator BOOOOOM!!! It wasn't uncommon to see hoses that had been chopped apart with an axe and spliced back together from trying to stop a burnback. 

Acetylene generator









Hope this helps but probably more than you wanted to know


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Bummer! My whole imaginary world has collapsed around me. 

But good information non the less. 

Dave


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry Dave, didn't meant to upset you...98% of people wouldn't know this stuff so they won't realise it isn't quite right. Just happens that I used to be certified in structural, pipeline and pressure vessel welding. If you simply substitute an engine driven electric welder and put a hood on the guy it would be almost perfect!  You are an excellent modeller with a great eye for detail, but nobody can expect you to know everything. 

I also own a real 1:1 scale steam tractor which means I sometimes catch "mistakes" in boiler construction on scratchbuilt (and factorybuilt, lol) steam models too...usually I just keep my mouth shut unless somebody asks -- avoids hard feelings.... 

BTW I would really LOVE to see somebody model someone cutting scrap with a torch....the shower of sparks would be super cool, but how would you model that without setting fire to the layout using flint against an abrasive wheel? (that's how those classic old spark guns and robot toys did it)


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Re hoods: older welding hoods were boxy looking affairs (fairly easy to model using thin flat styrene or even cardstock). with an affair made of straps on them to hold them on your head...new helmets can get quite...interesting, and are usually attached to a hard hat. 

old style helmets: 







This one is new molded nylon, old ones were styled the same but constructed of black painted fibreboard stuff 









Basic helmet most often seen from the 60's through about 2000:









some modern ones. lol:


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't know if you ever found a suitable welding light, but there is on at miniatronics for $30, which I've used and found to be very realistic. See this page 

http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchan...=100-201-01&Category_Code=2_1&Product_Count=0


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Matt, 

Check out http://www.sceneryexpress.com/prodinfo.asp?number=EZ7002 for a great flashing arc welder circuit. You could probably make the O Scale would be best. 

I think your layout is absolutely great by the way. 

Chris


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Due to the size of the "torch", I hid my welder inside a building on my indoor layout.


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