# South Australian Railways Narrow Gauge Wagon



## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

At the moment I am building from scale plans a Narrow Guage Refridgerator Van. This used to run on the Port Lincoln Division of the South Australian Railways from the 1930's to the end of the 1960's. Although no prototypes exist anymore, I thought this would be an ideal starter project, and from that I can expand to other vehicles.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Here are some pics to detail my build. Available to view of photobucket, I haven't worked out how to add to this forum yet.
More pics will come in as I've almost finished making the body.









http://s1072.photobucket.com/albums/w367/Taylorplains/?action=view¤t=RnBroadGauge.jpg - (Broad Gauge Plans)









http://s1072.photobucket.com/albums/w367/Taylorplains/?action=view¤t=Rn.jpg - 1:24 Plans drawn to scale with fabricated end panels.









http://s1072.photobucket.com/albums/w367/Taylorplains/?action=view¤t=Rn.jpg#!oZZ3QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2Fs1072.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw367%2FTaylorplains%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3DRn6479portlincolnjun75.jpg - Prototype pic of last van on Pt Lincoln Division circa late 1960's


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Just an update. While looking for pics to assist in the building of the van, I found these examples. The P class is prior to the introduction of the R class, while the others Rb / RB are the broad gauge short and longer bogie wagons. The longer bogie wagons I can't determine if the were narrow or broad gauge. Also because they are just bodies and showing the results of years of weathering you can see part of the construction methods and how they would of looked on the rails. I've used these as reference pics to assist in planning and building. 

Progress has advanced enough to have a body finished, and prepped for painting. All I have to do now is to add the roof and roof details, body details and decals. Once done I can start the underframe.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Jonesy

Check out the FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) section for instructions on how to include images in your replies. (see below combination path & link)









MLS menu-bar >> Resources menu >> FAQ[/b]

Reference: Q12. As a Standard Member how do I use the Rich-text/HTML Editor - Including Pictures in Your Replies: - section


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Cheers mate, greatly appreciated. Will use that method.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Here are some pics of the ongoing build. I'm in the process of fabricating the roof prior to attaching it to the body. The roof in real life was canvass / tarpaulin bonded to the timber roof and painted to be a continuous sealed barrier from the elements. The different shots show the roof trim, door layout, end panel layout and vent hole locations. 

The roof itself will be sized, curved 1mm styrene with calico bonded to it and trimmed to fit the profile and side trims. The roof colour is a red oxide / maroon colour - different pics show slightly differing tones, and since there is no colour card available - guestimate it is. Also the addition of timber strips on top as a drip guard. 

The body is 3mm MDF built as panels with 1.5mm balsa glued to it with high strength waterproof glue. End posts for the corners were added to the end panels and then all balsa panels scribed. The distance is 3 1/2 inches (1:24) and V grooved (HO scale rule worked perfect). The door details were built and scribed to look as close to the real plans. The panels were then lined up glued with support posts internally. I used a block of 6mm masonite cut to the internal dimensions to assist with squaring up / trueing of frame. 

Although next time I will use styrene or a harder timber. Balsa is great but it damages easy and marks easy too. The body has been sealed with a good quality exterior varnish inside and out to maintain longevity in the harsh Australian climate.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Here are some extra pics from the end and side panel fabrication. The left hand pic has the roof spacers and base included. The centre pic shows the fabrication of the side panels and lamination of balsa sheet to the MDF prior to the scribing and door details. The right side pic isn't as clear as I hoped, but it does show some of the details that went into the door.


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## Budd (Mar 22, 2008)

That looks good, it is my prototype as well, what scale are you building that in Jonesy? Where are you located, if you are in or near Adelaide the Penfield Model Engineers are holding their 2nd Gauge 1 Invitation Run next Sunday (19/8/12), everybody is welcome, you don't have to be a member, and it is a good venue to meet other gauge 1'ers and see what they are doing, I can send you some info about the day or google Penfield Model Engineers for a entry form.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Yeah mate am building in 1:24 scale. I live in the Northern Suburbs of Adelaide and have an invite to the Penfield Day. I went last year and plan to attend this year. The van is now further along, and got some good reviews from the largescale fellas at the AMRE this year.


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## Budd (Mar 22, 2008)

I'll tick you down as coming, we need to know approxiamate numbers to make sure we have enough tucker, if you know of anybody else coming can you get them to let me know, thanks.
You had better bring that van along to show and tell.

Wayne


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I've now attached the styrene roof to the body. Prior to that I painted the body with a varnish to seal inside and out and let it dry thoroughly for a fortnight. Then used a spray gray primer in order to give the paint a good surface to adhere to. Attaching the roof was a interesting challange to say in the least - but it's done. Next time may go for a drop in roof assembly. 

From the plans - the sides are flush with the top body trim, and the roof ends extends one scale inch from the ends. I need to make the appropriate details, add the canvass roof and paint the body / roof as per pictures. So the body is now 80% done. I just need to construct the underframe and attach. 









http://s1072.photobucket.com/albums...s Modelling Album/?action=view¤t=P8180081.jpg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Looking good. Great to see some SAR modeling. 

Alan


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

My apologies for not posting in a while. In the meantime while working and juggling family I've been figuring how to make the angled metal vents located each end of the wagon. Styrene didn't work - I needed something more durable and not so fiddly. Soldering brass didn't work for me either, however. While working out the size of the vents I had made samples from paper which were drawn, cut to size, and folded to see the approximate size. 

Metal sheet! From tin cans! I had some in supply and flat aluminum sheet as well. I could cut and bend to size.

After that happy eureka moment - came the testing and fiddling stage. The real prototype vents were made of mild steel, and 2-3mm thick. I used some of my supply of tin can metal (army issue cheese tins) - once cleaned, flattened it worked out scarily to scale. Also it was more robust than expected. After a couple of goes, I managed to work out the best way to shape the vents. I picked the 4 best ones and they are now attached to the wagon.

This pic shows the 4 finished examples, and some of the trial ones as I was shaping.









The added vents in position over the airholes, I prepainted part of the area silver - this was just in case when painting I miss a spot.









End shown from angle - shows the vents how far they extend from the body.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

The roofing fabric has now been attached. The calico was cut to slightly oversize and glued down, note - must use sharp blade or quality scissors for neat cuts (old blunt blades cause frays and tears). The wood glue was great for the main body, I resorted to Araldite for the curved edges ensuring a thorough bond. Now that it's all cured, I cleaned up the dodgy bits in order to attached the drip guards and paint.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Looks good. What is "calico" and "Araldite?" Since you say earlier the roof is canvas, I'm inclined to believe is a cloth of some variety. Araldite I'm presuming to be an adhesive. 

Later, 

K


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Yes, Calico is a cloth - used for linens, bags, clothing (lightweight summer), it is a finely woven product and Araldite is a brand name for a Selley's two part epoxy adhesive here in Australia. The tops of a number of freight and passenger cars in South Australia had a canvass roofing over which paint was applied to create a weatherproof seal in the early to mid part of the 1900's. The Calico is about scale in 1:24 to represent canvass, so it'll do well to simulate that effect. If you look in an earlier post, some of the reference pics of prototypes show the fabric peeling away from the van tops due to being out in the weather for a long time.

Scott.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I've painted the roof and boy does it look good, matches the prototype photos very well. Next step is to fabricate the hinges, door locks and add the reporting marks.










It'll look great on the fabricated underframe.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Sorry I haven't posted for a while. I still have been working on the wagon. The casting for the hinges has taken me longer than expected. I've now settled on a casting I can fix to the shell with n scale trackspikes - pretty much scale size bolt heads. Also have been working on 3d prototyping of parts. Will have some progress pics shortly. Also have been working on the underframe.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Just an update, the detail parts have taken longer than expected. My scratchbuilt master for the hinge didn't quite work out and needed more fine tuning. However the 3d modelling has progressed in leaps and bound. On Shapeways I test printed a designating board which came out pretty well for a first effort. So I have continued working on the underframe, hinges and door assembly. 

I had Shapeways make me a brass master for my hinges and they turned out fantastic. 



http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ec9cb3.jpg

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...68775a.jpg


They print in plain brass, and are currently adding more metals to their list - which is awesome. Now I can invest in masters to make moulds for metal casting. I am looking forwards to shortly casting metal hinges for the van.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Alrighty, I made myself a mold box and poured the Pinkysil over my master. The only issue I see is that the master needed to make 100% contact with the base of the mold. I thought I had done so, but the master didn't exactly lay flat. So the Pinkysil crept under the gaps - now I'll have to carefully trim to it so it doesn't interfere with the cast and ensures a easy release. Here are the links to my Photobucket library of the new pics.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking great and very nice job.

Here is a clickable link to your photo's

*Taylorplains's Bucket *


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I ran into some problems with the hinge masters as they did not line up for the casting and have now re-designed them for Shapeways as individual items in a pack of 12 and no sprue. I have utilised those hinges on the doors, and the door lock assembly has been re-jigged to suit 3d printing - waiting for the assembly to arrive now. I have begun work on the underframe.

The basic underframe for the Y class of wagons in pretty straight-forwards. The devil is in the detail depending if Y / Yh / Yy. The Y class is for broad gauge (5ft 3ins), while the Yy / Yh is rebuilt / adapted to fit the narrow gauge (3'ft 6ins). So the frame will be close to the Yh frame. Also instead of fabricating the chopper couplers I've gone for the Kaddee couplers. I have settled for expediency over accuracy in this respect - in some case the difference between vans of both gauges was only a inch or two in size. The Y frames that will be available as kits will be to fit both sorts of couplers in the near future. I have gotten as far as having my files on Shapeways ready to go and need to do a test run to check quality / tolerances and roadworthiness. 

Some of my latest pics have been uploaded to photobucket, just click on the link in the panel below. 




http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ins Modelling Album/RnClass20_zps418bc227.jpg




http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ins Modelling Album/RnClass21_zps97073e90.jpg




http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ins Modelling Album/RnClass22_zps101fc9a0.jpg




http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ins Modelling Album/RnClass23_zps771e9bcd.jpg




http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ins Modelling Album/RnClass24_zps40fcc785.jpg


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Great work! 
Are you in SA? 
Kind regards Michael


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Micheal, yes I am right here in Adelaide.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

what did you draw the 3D components in? 

Alan


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Mhh there was me hoping there is more ls people than me in canberra..lol


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By Michael W on 07 Jan 2014 11:39 PM 
Mhh there was me hoping there is more ls people than me in canberra..lol 
I'm in Victoria. So we have South Australia, Canberra and Victoria. 
What gauge do you think we should all use?


















Andrew


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Alan - I have been using Google Sketchup 8, and now getting familiar with Trimble Sketchup Make 2013 (upgraded Sketchup 8). I was able to use the CADspan plugin to Sketchup8 as it is free and handles files up to a certain range to fix and convert to .stl for 3d printing. The new Sketchup does not have a plugin to convert to .stl sadly - but does export files as a Collada .DAE file and Shapeways can use that. 

Garratt - the gauge thing is a curse of yesteryear prior to Federation. We have to live with it. But in reality, everything from the start in all Colonies it should have been standard. Mark Twain a little over a 100 years ago toured Australia and was incredulous at the travelling arrangements then. This is large scale and luckily track width is not a problem lol.  

Micheal - what prototype do you model?


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Hi Jonesy, 
I just started out in garden railways, i have so far 3 locos 10 m of a track circle and about 9 carriges... So I am at the VERY beginning - originally i am from Germany and I want t remodel part of the German Ruhr area ( mining and Steel works), due to a lack of models (unless you want to buy kiss models) i will have to start scratch building most stuff... 
So its standart gauge in 1/24 th for me... 
Kind regards Michael


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Micheal - That's a good start with what you got. Also it's a good way to pursue your interest and I am quite sure there a number here in Oz who enjoy modelling largescale German trains. I look forwards to your progress. I have made the transition from HO scale to 1:24 as well.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

This is some more work so far. I had some minor issues with getting items printed off from shapeways, and that has been rectified by enlarging certain parts. Just waiting for journals assembly to arrive - fron there it will be the investment casting master. I am currently researching brass casters locally to me and feeling out prices, timeframe etc. 

I have added the data reporting marks to the left bottom corner using dry transfer lettering. I had some left over and decided to have a go and see how it went. For a first effort it is 50:50, I had some success and issues. Balsa is pretty soft and does ding easily, at angles or shades of light you can see where I burnished the letters. A closer look shows irregularities in alignment and spacing. But at 3 foot away it is not that noticeable. 

Next time I will be having a harder exterior ie styrene to allow better contact for burnishing. I may go the way of decals either dry transfer or custom made. Another consideration has been a stencil - 3d printed or etched from metal. Also I have considered making a pad stamper. As this is the initail test build Ican work through the options to get the best and most cost effective method of detailing the marks. 

The support angles were cut individually, aligned and spaced as per the prototype. Just need to carefully file and square the small inconsistencies. I have used a number of different techniques and skills to make this, it has been a slightly longer affair than expected, but it is satisfying. Judging by the comments from my group well worth it. 

 



http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...0f7fae.jpg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Maybe some scribed plywood would be a better choice for the sides. I'm not to sure who would stock it in Adelaide I've been away for two long but I'd give the Railcar a call. If you can get it in Aus, the Railcar will have it or can get it. 

www.railcar.com.au 

Alan


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

The Railcar is pretty good for stocking stuff and I have bought from them in the past. They may have it. If I can't find the appropriate scale scribed cladding I may go the way of 3d print or laser cut ply. I did scribe the laminated balsa myself - however looking back I went too deep with the scribing. The next time will not be so deep and square.


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Nice work, and a cool little prototype.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Cheers Ray, thanks for that.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Hi, I got my journal assembly from Shapeways on Tuesday arvo. Unfortunately parts of the leaf springs didn't fully print. Also the assembly is slightly longer longer than expected. So will have to adapt and make do with what I got. I need to fill it missing springs and shorten the asssembly. Also I need to get 1:24 scale 3 foot wheels as the ones I got are too short - 2'3". Also next time the lettering needs to be slightly bigger.

Once I finish the doctoring it should be ready for casting in Brass or White metal. Despite the shortfalls, the assembly does look good.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I've created a album on my profile detailing this build. It is a condensed version - so not all pictures have been uploaded. But, it does give a good overall timeline of the construction.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Apologies for not posting in while. Work has slowed a bit due to other distractions (work, kids, etc). 

Wheels are still a issue, either go with Bachmann wheels that fit the Annie and Clarabel coaches or cast locally. Casting in metal for journals - am saving my pennies.

There is a opportunity to have laser cutting which I am developing - this avenue looks very promising. As well as a local producer can make my 3d models resulting in cost saving, faster turnaround and shorter adjustment time. Shapeways is good. However, I would like to speed up the process and make refinements on the go


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Hi all, latest update. Have taken a break from 3d printing and am trying my hand at some brass fabricating and soldering. One door assembly has been made and has been etched prior to painting. The next assembly should be quicker and better.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

This is the first door lock assembly as attached. I have used a 2 layer paint coat after the assembly was cleaned up and pickled in a brine to etch the metal. The first coat was a machinery grey enamel followed by a black acrylic enamel. Both coats were baked in a low oven of 175 degrees Celcius for a hour and left for about 6 hours to finish curing.

For the next assembly instead of cutting all the hinge parts then soldering, I will be soldering the tube to the flat barstock then cutting to size and cleaning up. A jig to bend the wire will ensure a standard sizing. For someone who is not a metal worker the results are good - I can only improve from this point on.

The assembly is attached with HO scale track pins - my advice if installing small details is to take your time and not rush. Have a protective pad or piece of styrene / metal etc to protect the surface from construction dings. With a bit of weathering it'll look like wear and tear from service.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Now that the Door lock assemblies are fitted and I'm happy they have been painted to match the prototype pics. Despite the builders plans showing various details and pics showing individual additions I've decide to leave them for now and concentrate more on the underframe.

I've painted the base of the wagon black and will weather after completion. I fixed a small mishap on the frame and now painted the outer frame black. The W iron and journal assembly is still being sorted out. However they can be added after. 

I've fixed the frame to the body and will add the couplers after glue dries. Brake system, brake air reservoir, piping et all to be designed and manufactured shortly. Inner frame and hangers in progress. Unfortunately I missed out on presenting this for display at the 2014 Modelling South Australian Railways Convention - but going for 100% completion for next year. Along with some other models in development. I've edited this post and will add pictures to another shortly.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Jonesy, pics not working?

Alan


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Have posted the links to my photobucket album. 

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ins Modelling Album/RnClass30_zps7932c0ea.jpg

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ins Modelling Album/RnClass31_zpse45a6c1d.jpg

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...ins Modelling Album/RnClass32_zps0865ecf5.jpg


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Sorry bout not posting, things have slowed right down due to finances, and frustration getting the wheels and journals sorted out. But it looks like I found a person to cast my journals. Looking back at a set of masters obtained from Shapeways, if I add some material to the W irons I can increase the tolerances to make it better for casting. The W irons are about 1mm, and will need to be 2mm for strength as well. The other details will come out nicely. As for the wheels it seems a local company can waterjet cut the outlines and then turn to required size - just saving my pennies to get it done in the new year.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

After a bit of trying and rejigging, the air reservoir is done and off to Shapeways. Should see shortly the master for casting. Another step closer to completion.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

While waiting for the reservoir to appear from Shapeways, I got stuck into the brake lever details. Which comprises of lever arm with weight, guide and lever fulcrum. I need two - one for each side. The pic shows the lever in what will be the up / off position. Also shows the guide positioning plus fulcrum support. 

I plan to braze weld all components together for strength, with a space left for the bar running crossways that has the pivoting plate(s). After I got the reservoir mounted I will add extra brake details. 

The Air reservoir arrived today, it was supposed to be shipped today and it arrived posted on 30 Dec. Big thumbs up x 2 for the speedy service, disappointment follows when unboxing that the item is elliptical and not round. You may see it in the pic. These things happen during resizing on Sketchup - reminder to self - check the final proportions prior to printing. 

Despite that - it did print well and looks promising as part of the details kit. Once mounted to the underframe I don't think anyone will notice from a metre away. Also after necessary adjustments for future printing it will be a good detail.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

What medium is that printed in?

I always get hung up on the brake rigging too.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Strong and flexible plastic - white and polished. In future once I'm happy with the details it will be offered as a brass / white metal casting. 

Each assembly is broken down, scaled out and worked out to best fit. As its the first model its taking a bit of time - more than I expected. All the variations of a body and underframe for a class of just 8 narrow gauge wagons hasn't helped. So much for simplicity then - should have a done a flatcar. LOL

My OCD is having a field day.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Take 2 aspirin...call me in the morning...Jonesy!!

Looks great...time to design and loose sleep over a project....not a good hobby with out those qualities buddy!!
..LOL.!!!

Dirk


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe the polishing is where you're getting some distortion introduced? 

Since I upgraded to the paid version of Sketchup, I have been using OBJ files with Shapeways. However, there's a free plugin for Sketchup 2014 that will let you export STL files.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I checked the file - it wasn't in proportion. I don't think the polishing altered the shape. 

Have been using the free version of Sketchup 2015 and it has been working out ok. Although with .dae files there is some changes. Will check to see if there is a plugin for 2015 or Meshlabb it.

As for aspirin, I think I need something stronger like Rum, Scotch or Brandy lol. 

At least this gives me a outlet for my creativity and keeps me from roaming the streets or at the pub.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Alright - success with the ladder detail. Finally another problem child model part a step closer to reality. 

I've been to someone who does patternmaking and tooling, worked countless variations of sketchup files, considered laser cut metal with rod cut to size for soldering, pulled my hair, cursed, and gnashed my teeth over something that should be so simple. 

Eureka - Detail set another step closer.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Busy beavering along this week with the model. After more research and viewing other pics I came to the realisation that I didn't need to fabricate the second brake lever assembly. 

I cut and painted the inner frame supports for the Yh wagon with the reservoir. Also glued the frame supports into place using the master for the wheel supports to space them accurately. 

In the meanietime, I have been measuring and comparing details for the underframe. After a few rough sketches and sizing of things I've started on the centre support rails.

So I have measured, cut and pre-located the centre rails, added the spacers (3 of), marked out the centreline and the centrelines for the air reservoir support brackets. Orientated and marked the rails F for footstep at one end and H for handbrake at the other. This way I can ensure everything is where it should be.

Also test fitted everything as I went along, here are the most recent pics.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

More updates, I added the boxes to the inner frame that will support the yoke for the brake system. After painting I installed it on the model, and then started on the cross bearers. 

This was pretty dickey as I had no C channel of that size so I fabricated it out of 1 x 4 mm Plastruct strip. Cutting and filling each space between the beams.

It's not totally square, and does look a bit disjointed. Unless you lift it up and turn it over to view the details underneath no-one is really going to tell. It will help support brake mechanisms and the air hose line.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)




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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

My apologies for the gap between posts. I have spent a considerable amount of time figuring out the brake / underframe details and getting it right. Pedantic (yes), OCD (uh-huh), crazy (yeeeeeeeeeeeeeah) - obsessive lol. 

I spent the better part of this afternoon completing the assembly, I had about 7 sub-assemblies to bring together and solder. I am glad its finally done and being pickled in brine for painting. 

Also the wheel journals were revised and printed off locally (Thanks Daniel) they are more prototypical than the MK1's. The MK1's scaled out to 1:20 scale and so were a wee bit oversized. The MK2's addresses the W iron thickness (now 2mm), scale (1:24) and the spring assembly details too. 

Just need to find someone to make me some wheels.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Progress at the moment has my Mk2 journals finally sent off to John @ Ornamental Castings for white-metal casting. I've scrimped and saved to be able to afford this, the good news is that once done I can order in batches to speed the building. Not to mention maybe making them available to others modelling in large scale.

Today saw a good deal of action getting the brake line piping and the hangers done. Now onto the brake shoes \ hangers assembly.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w367/Taylorplains/Taylorplains%20Modelling%20Album/Rn%20Class%2046_zpsuvks7guu.jpg

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums...s Modelling Album/Rn Class 45_zpsj1gttrge.jpg


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Scott, Tenmille in UK have wide range of wheels for 45mm, spoked plain 3 hole etc..


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up mate. Unfortunately their wheels are undersized for what I need.

http://www.steammachine.com/prototype_archive/sar_4_wheel/YClassopenwagonplan.JPG

I need the wheels to scale out to 3ft - 3ft 5/8in (1:1) or 38mm radius on the wheel rim in 1:24. 

Bachmann has wheels that fit the Annie and Clarabell coaches which is sort of the closest I have found. But am investigating whether it is more cost effective to have them made or import them from the US.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Scott, progress is looking nice. Another option could be wheels from https://slatersplastikard.com be cheaper no doubt if you can find something off the shelf.

Soldering of the break detail looks nice, how did you do that? The last big of large scale detail soldering I did I used a butane torch for the first time, nice and easy and plenty of heat just using normal solder. In the past I would have used low melt solder and an iron which is what I have used in HO.

Alan


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I use a 50watt soldering iron, I do have a small pen butane torch but sadly it won't work for me. I made the sub assemblies and then soldered them together, it took me several goes as it was a bit dickey. 

I did my best to clean the surfaces thoroughly, tin, tightly clamp, and flux with my trusty flux pen. After clean up and painting it looks good. Next time however I won't be cutting every detail - its laser cut and cast metals for me.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Scott,
Guage 3 wagon wheels source Slaters. google Slaters plasticard and go to Wagon Wheels Gauge 3 [which is 1/2" ft ] or 1:24..


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I've been in contact with Slater Plastikard. They have a couple of items that are the closest to what I require. They also put me onto the Gauge 3 society and that has provided me with Eureka moment. Williams has G3 kits and details I can use or modify.

http://www.williamsmodels.co.uk/wagonframe.html

Thanks for the reference - after so many dead ends and false trails there is something I could possibly use.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Yay, my cast journals have arrived. John from Ornamental Castings did a good job in making in them in whitemetal for me. These are my very first castings, once prepped and painted they'll look great once fitted.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Are the vertical pins for mounting, or are they just sprues?


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Yes, although the pins are part of the W iron to which the leaf spring and journal are attached. I will have to trim the top of the W iron in order to fit the centre rails, and add some support to the leaf spring ends.

I've already drilled the centre of the journal on the reverse face to accept axles. I did design the assembly to fit K&S 11mm C channel when I build the frames. It is compatible to a lot of English influenced small wagon wheel assemblies. 

We'll see how they work and I can make adjustments to the design from there.

I've noticed some of my past pics are not showing up on this site.

Here is the link directly to my modelling album on Photobucket so you can view all the progress: - http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/Taylorplains/library/Rn%20Class%20Build?sort=4&page=1


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Will they have bearings?


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I have been pondering this for a while. Should I go nylon or brass sleeve to insert into the journal? I am not sure of how much wear will happen between say a nickel-silver axle and a white-metal part.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Finally got my wheels from Slaters Plastikard. I ordered 2 sets so I could build another wagon and test the chopper couplers. Sadly it turns out that the wheels are over scale by a couple of mm and the axle is longer. As it is Gauge 3 equipment the track width is more like standard gauge (reference the added pics).

Long story short - the two parts are not interchangeable. Milling and cut to fit will cost more and have a higher fail rate. So plan D is to sell on the wheels to someone who can use them. Use that money and have them made for me to spec. With a view that in the future I buy a mini-lathe and learn to mill things.





















Comparisons from both overhead, and side by side view.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

After some reworking the ladder is complete and on its way from Shapeways. Like most of the scale 3d parts I created I've had to adjust thicknesses and properties to allow effective printing while keeping costs low. The money from selling the G3 wheels helped pay for the printing. So at the moment I'm fabricating some of the easier handrails and placard holders.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w367/Taylorplains/Rn Class Build/Rn Class 50_zpsfwsaarr4.jpg


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

While waiting for the ladder to appear in the post, I finally got around to modifying the journal assembly. 

First step was to clean and tidy up the casting of imperfections and flash. 










Second step was to file the bottoms of the W irons down about 3mm and putting a 90 degree bend on the outer arms of the W iron to accept the blocks. This way the irons can be fixed to the body.

Third step was to cut and shape the mounting blocks for fixing to the wagon.

Fourth step was to dry fit to the wagon, check clearances and see what adjustments are needed.




























I've Araldited the blocks to the irons and just need to individually check the assemblies in each of their locations. To make life easier (and my sanity lol) I numbered each assembly and the location on the wagon base so everything matches up. 

I'm quite pleased how it looks on wheels, and glad its a step closer to finishing.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks nice. What did you ever decide about wheel bearings?


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I can go two ways with this option.

1. Fabricate them myself out of thin brass sheet and brass tubing.

Or.

2. Shapeways - either in plastic or brass.

As the assemblies have been painted and letting them air cure, I can ponder options.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Printing bushings in nylon would definitely be cheaper. They might even have less friction than brass on brass.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Nylon has been the option I've been leaning towards as well. Either way I was going to add powdered graphite into the journal area for added ease of motion. I will have to adjust or re-apply the airline pipe as it does contact the wheel - did hear some rubbing and saw the reduced natural spin when I gave the wheels the initial test spin.

Already done a test roll on the dry fit with wheel spin and upright on straight track, it passes that test with flying colours. The main test will be tight curves and switches. Will I have given enough consideration to the side play in the journals distance to allow free flowing movement and not derailing by itself and / or as part of a train?

Good thing that my next wagon project has bogies. lol


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't know what size axle you are using, but you might want to look at these:

http://www.avidrc.com/product/1/bearings/7/18-x-516-x-964-Flanged-Metal-FR2-5ZZ-bearings.html

At $1/each, they are a pretty good deal.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Hmmmm, yep there's a way. I was thinking along the lines of these bushings for other models and printing out in nylon or brass.

http://store.rc4wd.com/T-Rex-60-K44-Brass-Knuckle-Bushing-8_p_1222.html

Either way I will have to bore the axle hole a little wider, but keeping the same depth as last time to fit the bearing in.

I am using the LGB wheels http://www.trainli.com/67319-metal-spoke-wheel-p-515.html 

They have a 3mm thick axle stub - so the bore for the bushing or the bearing will need to be 3.5mm to allow for movement.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

After much delay I've made some more progression. I ordered 2 packs of brass top hat bearings from a guy in the UK Resin D'Etre - www.g-bits.co.uk. After a couple of weeks, they arrived last Friday and have now fitted them to each journal.

Each pack has 8 bearings - fits a bogie wagon or 2 short wagons. So I've drilled out each axle hole a tad bigger to slip the bearings in. I've gone for a reasonably snug fit fixed in with a touch of epoxy. Once dried I put in some Kadee grease-em for extra free rolling.

I'll touch up any visible shiny areas after fixing the wheels into place.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

There is a wagon in Waipahu that is similar to this one. It came from France. It was sent to each state in the U.S. fill it with French products as a token of gratitude for the help the U.S. gave France in WW II. The first one arrived in New York.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merci_Train


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

That's a pretty neat looking wagon.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Okay and after a very long pause I'm back. No I haven't been slack in modelling, just something has caught my attention and I've been keeping an eye on proceedings whilst working out the final details.

I've started cutting the and forming the brake hanger details, as it's not entirely clear I've been constantly referring to the plans / pics. 

Here are some progress pics of the brakes themselves. I needed to make 8 - 4 inside and 4 outside brakeshoes to fit on the hangers.




























As you can see I built up the inner brake shoe off of some 1mm x 3mm styrene and curved it to the diameter of the wheel. I have a circle template, so it fitted into the largest hole pretty well and did the job. 

From there I added curved styrene strip on one side with the shape marked out. Then it was cut and shaped to suit each brake shoe profile. I added the centre plate - this attaches to the brake hangers and then added the outside strip. Once happy with the rough outline I then used my razorsaw to cut them free, so they all have the same radius as the wagon wheel. After a little more fine finishing it'll be ready to be fitted to the hangers.

If I had of been more financial I would have had this all 3D printed - next time definitely.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I've scoured all my pics, model mags, notes, and online for the information needed. In the end I went to Gawler which is not far from me to the train station there and they have a broad gauge F class steam loco and a Y wagon undercover and took pics of the Y underframe to clarify things.

I had started making the yoke from 2mm brass rod following the builders plan and discovered that the yoke was made of square bar instead when I was there. Also that the wagon had 6 brakes not 8 as expected fitted. But with this information I can proceed much more confidently.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Some more pics, took these prior to working away. Photobucket was on the fritz so posting this progress was delayed a little.

Parts of the yoke.









Layout and jig outline.









Completed yokes prior to cleanup and painting.









Yokes, with brake hangers, brake shoes, brackets, piston and support.









Next time I do this for another Yy underframe, all this will be done in 3d printed metal parts.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Scott,
Nice work you're doing here and I thought I was the only nutter who put all the detailing on the underside where no one can see it!
Are the inner brake shoes just for parking or are they actually used for braking? Also, on the prototype are the journal boxes fabricated? they look to me like they're welded fabrications.
Cheers.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Harvey.

This nutter is going for maximum points on the NRMA Car Builders Certificate, and I like fully detailed stuff too.

Other people may be out there wanting to build the same thing too, so it helps, also is a record and prompter of my modelling.

The centre brakes were used for parking the wagon, your and my assumption would be correct. But as part of the airline working system I would guess they also worked in conjunction with the air system. Once I hear back from a few sources - I will have the correct details.

The journals have been welded to the W iron to stop movement as it's a display now, and they would have been cast in iron.


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## Hosk1956 (Nov 2, 2016)

Scott and Harvey,
The centre pair of brake shoes are handbrake only and not connected to the air system at all, they are only on one side.
Those axle boxes are fabricated (and not welded to the W irons, they slide up and down), generally the axle boxes were a cast item with a few different styles, broad gauge and narrow gauge wagons were generally different (with exceptions as is always the case), those in that photo are on a broad gauge wagon, those under the Rn you are modelling Scott would have been cast as in the very first photo. Even if they were a converted broad gauge underframe (broad gauge to narrow gauge) they still retained their cast box.

Wayne from Oz.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Wayne - many thanks for your much appreciated input. Glad that explains things much better.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Here are some of the recent workings that has occurred since the last update. Shapeways cast me for 2 stirrup ladders and chopper coupler assemblies, they managed to get it done a week early. However, delivery took longer than expected almost 3 weeks longer (Not. Happy. Jan).

I spent time working out the brake hangers, and other end assembly - all in all very fiddly. Causing a bit of frustration and some bad language not for hearing of the genteel folk. Yup, I'll get them 3d cast too in the future. The brake are twitched to the pegs by wire and are somewhat unitdy in my view. 

The centre support rod linking the end brake assemblies was added, and then discovered one end much lower than the other. So I'll remedy that. 

Just need to add the handbrake assembly, the straps to stop dragging equipment and a few minor details. I haven't decided to whether or not stay with the Kadee coupler system or install my Beta test Stableford (Norwegian / Chopper) couplers.


Assembly of piston and brake hangers









Positioning


















3d printed and cast stirrup steps









Underbody









Side view showing error in positioning of bar.









Side view of van showing Stableford coupler in demo mode.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good. A little light weathering will put it over the top.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Another step closer to completion. I've been working on the coupler assemblies, so now I've removed the Kadee coupler box and installed my beta-test Chopper coupler boxes onto the body and also finished the choppers too. I then also weathered the wheels to remove any distracting shiny bits. 

The underframe is now complete as all the hanging supports have been added. All that's left is a little bit of weathering, addition of the airhose assembly, connecting chains and a couple of waybill holders.



Angle shot of coupler assembly and stirrup steps.










Underframe shot with arrows showing location of hangers.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Some pics from the coupler assembly. 

This one was taken from at the Port Dock Museum, showing the choppers as linked along with chains and air hoses.









Top left is the choppers with template.
Bottom left is the 3d printed couplers (black), and 3d brass cast.
Right hand side is the 3d brass cast coupler box assembly. One has been polished and tumbled the other is as delivered.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I've had a crack at detailing the coupler assemblies, it's been rather fiddly and tested my patience several times. The experience has taught me a great deal, and next time some components will be made by 3D printed metal / better bending jigs for uniformity. Viewing the construction of shackles and chain on Youtube was very interesting and assisted with making the parts.










I had someone make me coupler glad hands via Shapeways, other manufacturers I hunted down weren't making them to 1:24. This guy gladly resized his 1:6 versions and they worked a treat, as once slipped into some insulated tubing (I had to remove the wire inside first) then fitted into the air hose tap on the body. The hose itself is a little out of dimension - the overall effect at 3 feet away looks pretty good.

So back to the other details - making chain link, shackles, and hooks. They've turned out a little oversize by my reckoning, I used a jig to shape the long links and cut the ends off of eye hooks then closed that loop around the longer link. I also shaped 2 hooks to fit onto the lower round links which were attached prior to closing the link. The shackles took several goes to make, once I had found a way to form them the best four were picked and matched to look as close to each other.

Back to youtube and had to learn about rivets, how to make them and how to fix them (chase). Next time I'll do it this way, thanks to another experience telling piece:
1. Make the coupler frame in metal, cast links for uniformity and scale.
2. Use a brass or copper rivet.
3. Chase the rivet to a hard surface with a punch and die or a setting tool.
4. Do this to the bracket prior to adding to the wagon frame, and also before adding the coupler.

It's a rough first effort, future versions will look much better.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I've had to fix in place the hand brake lever hanger. Simply gluing on and using a small pin wasn't enough, as every time it got knocked it would just fall off the frame. So the solution was to put a U shaped piece of wire across the hanger and through the back of the C channel. 










While I was at it, I added the chain for the pin as well. Attaching that to the underbody with a HO track nail in the last link. The prototypes had chains attached to prevent losing the brake lever pin. The pins were neccessary in keeping the the brake lever locked in the right position. I've been told the levers and hand operated brake would rattle around if unsecured, making for a massive din.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work. 

What does it mean to "chase" a rivet? That's a new term to me.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I've had a bit of a look around on a heap of sites. I know it's a term in leatherwork / metalwork to create a mechanical join between 2 or more materials. 

Chasing a rivet - The end of a solid rivet (brass or copper) is rounded into a dome shaped head by using a ball pein hammer or punch (that has a inverted dome shape). The action causes the dome to pull the materials together while locking the metal against a washer or item. Hope that helps mate.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Simply wonderful - THANKS Photobucket for cutting the links to my pictures. I will now be finding another site to host my pics in future. 

(Insert nasty words and a massive double stack container trainload of them) is what I think of this turn of events and of course no more will I ever support them. Naturally I am thoroughly disappointed by this .

However I am moving forwards and not letting this deter me. A link to the new picture hosting site will be up shortly.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Scott, presumable they'll be some explanation for this from the administrators. Least I hope so.
Cheers.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey, this has happened and photobucket screwed a lot of people without warning.

Nothing to do with this forum.

Greg 940


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I have finally decided which hosting site to run my pics from now on. Flickr will be my preferred site, so everyone will be able to see the content from previous posts.

Rn Class 86 by taylorplains, on Flickr


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

I know this is a old, old post of a now complete model. But for those looking through my previous builds and who do view this, seeing all of the blank pics of my progress caused by Photobucket effectively extorting large fees to use their site. I've added the Flickr links to my album so you can view the journey I took building this.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/[email protected]/q5Eb44

Facimus et Frangimus


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