# Help with DCS upgrade - TIU Error



## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi all,

I've tried to update my TIU from v4 to v4.10.
The Loader v2.0 started to upload and then crashed.
I'm on Vista64, so what actually happened was the uploader stopped responding, and then exited.
Now I get a "TIU Error" when trying to access the TUI from the remote, and the loader won't find the TIU COM port any more.
This seems to be a similar problem to tmmhead's post of Dec 22.

Looks like the TIU is now screwed (tech phrase).
I know this has been asked before, but the TIU needs to be reset somehow.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

You will have to reload the TIU file from the computer if you can not reset the TIU from the remote. (you did try that, right?) You might want to email MTH to ask them if the loader is Vista 64 is compatible. It certainly sounds like it might not be. 
Check the stereo cable on the TIU. Normally, when the TIU is not found, this is the problem. Jumping those ports puts the TIU in the mode necessary to load software.


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi John,

Thanks for the tips.
Unfortunately the TIU is no longer responding to its serial port *nor* the remote.
It was part-way through updating OK until the loader program crashed, so the cables were all right (I guess).
There was no mention in MTH's update notes about operation system compatibility issues.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm running DSC Loader 2.0 with Vista Ultimate with no problems. 
How far into the 4.10 update before the loader crashes?
Are you using a serial port or a USB port?


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a thought that's weird that the Loader crashed because it has a retry program built in.


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for the thoughts.

The uploading was about half way through before the Vista "Application not responding" message popped up.
I'm using a classic serial port.
I don't think the loader can retry, because the Loader program exe itself crashed, not the loading process within the Loader.

Hamish


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Yikes. That does not sound good. Try deleting and uninstalling the loader, then re download and install it. Its possible the program itself was not sucessfully installed. If that doesn't work...well we will just have to burn that bridge when we get there.


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

John,

Thanks for the suggestions.
I've tried three separate installations on three different machines.
The loaders all just cycle through the com ports not finding the TIU.
The remote says "No TIU found at address 1" both tethered and wireless.
I have a feeling that some bridges have already been burned!
Hopefully they are re-buildable.

Hamish


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

My experience is the stereo cable triggers the TIU to "turn on loading mode". 
If you are not able to find the TIU, that may well be it. Can you check the continuity of the cable? Does anyone else have a TIU so that you can check that your serial and stereo cable are ok? 

When the TIU is powered up, do you see the red LED flash once?


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

John,

Thanks again.
The stereo cable is good, the loading process was OK until the Loader exe crashed.
When the TIU powers up, the red LED does *not *flash at all.
I never really looked at it when the TIU was good, so I don't know if it did then either.


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

I'va also tried to use the remote to get the TIU version, and do a factory reset.
In both cases the remote eventually shows "TIU ERROR"
This is both tethered and wireless.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a serious problem if the LED does not flash. There is no power! Open up the TIU and check the fuses. Check to make sure the screw terminals are tight. (that, believe it or not, killed one of my TIUs. I will deny for years how long it took me to figure that out. Suffice to say, I bought another which had the same problem before I figured it out!) 

Please confirm that with the stereo cable unconnected you have output voltage from Fixed 1 when you power up the TIU. Lets hope it is that simple.


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

John, continued thanks.

Sorry I didn't explain very well - on power-up the TIU red LED comes on immediately and stays on without blinking.
This is for power to both aux and/or fixed input 1.
And yes, applying power to fixed input 1 produces volts at fixed output 1.
If on the track, my Challenger immediately starts up in neutral, but won't move.
It does this for both polarities, suggesting there is no DCS present.

I'm sure that the problem is the interrupted software upload to the TIU.
If it could be restarted or reset, that would fix it.
Unfortunately the TIU does not respond at all.
I have now raised a service issue with MTH.
In the mean time, I have £800 - $1200 of junk (but very pretty junk!).

Thanks again,
Hamish


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Hamish, I would try as John posted and deleate the loader program then download another from the MTH website.
Is there anybody near you like a MTH dealer that could do the upgrade for you?
Just curious as to which version TIU are you trying to update?? The version is located underneath the TIU and it'l show something like REV.I3


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Chuck, thanks for the suggestions.

My TIU is Rev.H1 bought a week ago from Dragon in the UK.
They are not near me in UK concept of distance.

The TIU worked fine when I got it, the problems started when I tried to update from v4 to v4.10.

I have tried three fresh downloads and installations of the Loader on three different computers - none will see the TIU's COM port.
More importantly, the TIU no longer responds properly to the remote either.
I can use the remote to add and delete TIUs OK.
However, after adding TIU1, if I ask for its version, or try a factory reset I get -
if tethered, a "TIU ERROR" on the remote display, 
or if using wireless, an "OUT OF RF RANGE" message.

When I power it up, the red light comes on, but does not blink or flash.


I hope this explains things a bit better,
Hamish.


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## fildowns (May 17, 2008)

Just to say the when I was upgrading mine last week the TIU would not detect when the stereo cable was in, the COM detect/setup had to be done with the TIU powered up but no stereo cable. I take it you have just tried specifying COMx and doing the upgrade? another straw to clutch at is have you tried on another (XP say) PC? If you can't get to one (that has a serial port....they are becoming harder to find, in fact I'm surprised you have something that will run x64 with a serial port!!) then I'm happy to try it at my house...but if you're going to send it anywhere it might as well be back to the retailer I guess...


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## broskowitz (Mar 9, 2009)

Hamish, 

As Philip states, the TIU thinks that it's still in program mode (no LED blink) because the stereo jumper cable is in place. Remove it, turn off the TIU, turn it back on, wiat a few seconds, and it should blink. The number of blinks is the TIU number, 1 blink for 11, 2 blinks for 2, etc. 

Regarding the difficulty upgrading, check the following: 
• Make sure that the cable connecting the TIU to the PC is a "straight through" cable, not a null modem cable or the MTH cable used to connect the TIU to a TMCC Command Base. Check for bent pins at both ends of the cable. 
• Make sure that the 1/8" jumper cable is stereo, not mono. 
• Make sure that no other programs are running when you do the update. This include "faceles" applications that run in the background, i.e., modem programs, pds programs and anti virus programs. 
• Make sure that you're not running Vista 64 bit. If you are, the Loader Program won't work. 

I don't get on this forum and, if you would like to converse with me further, please use E-mail.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm..."Make sure that you're not running Vista 64 bit. If you are, the Loader Program won't work."
Learn something new every day!

I would listen to Broskowitz on this as he's a DCS Beta Tester..


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi all,

Thanks for everything so far.
I'm sending this to Broskowitz as well by PM

Powering up the TIU through aux with no other cables at all whatsoever connected - the LED comes on and stays on.
It never blinks or flashes.

I have tried Uploading by explicitly saying which COM port to use. The loader process just hangs.
Auto detect never worked for me.

I have tried with fresh installations on Vista64, Vista32, and XP.
The Loader seems to run OK on all systems, but won't detect and update my TIU.
However, something in the Loader process has made the TIU stop responding.

I've checked the serial cable, it has straight through connections, and straight pins.

The jumper cable is stereo, with good connections.

However, as Broskowitz says, the symptoms all suggest that the TIU is stuck in update mode, despite having no jumper cable connected, and being powered up and down many times.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Hamish, Over the past several years I've had many weird episodes with DCS like in one weekend I had 2 TIU's go bad and both while changing sound fles in a locomotive.
Lately I had a slave board in a F3 go bad at the same time I was adding a new B unit to the consist...go figure.

You mentioned that you have a Challenger, did the remote come packed with locomotive?


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi Chuck,

The remote came as part of a TIU + remote package.

At Barry Broskowitz's suggestion I'm joining the ogaugerr DCS forum forum to continue this plea over there.

When this issue is resolved I'll post an update here.

Hamish


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Some good news!
The TIU is now updated to v4.10, and it talks to the remote and the Challenger.
The LED now flashes once at power-up.
This was on a Vista32 PC, without setting the COM port first, just letting the updater find it.

However, the remote is NOT updated - it went into the "Press button" -> "Button not pressed" loop.
I had to reset the remote to get it to talk to the TIU again.


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## fildowns (May 17, 2008)

you may have been following my thread re. the remote upgrade saga, check the wiring on the telephone cable - you probably used a UK one like me and that was my problem, why I got into the same loop...

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/34/postid/85697/view/topic/Default.aspx


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chuck, when a TIU goes "bad", is this when you return it to the factory? I'm figuring if you have everything else right, that's the final alternative. 

(p.s. if you would go to my site, check over the DCS page and see if I've got most of it right... you can search for DCS to go right to the page... thanks) 

Regards, Greg


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

SUCCESS!!

Remote done as well.
My phone cable was OK.
It was a combination of resetting the remote after the TIU update, then having to hold and release the remote power button as instructed until the remote was 'seen'.
THEN it had to be held down for ~5 mins...

Phil,
Yes, re-reading your thread was the final link in this chain.
Where did you cut the power wires in your loco?
Perhaps you could send me a PM?

Thanks again everyone,
Hamish


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad it all finally went well for you! The first time is the tough one but now that you're "seasoned" the next upgrades should go easier..









Greg, Yep when a TIU goes "bad" I just send it to my dealer that also happens to be a MTH NASC (National Authorized Service Center).
Seems that a NASC gets top priority when dealing with MTH Service and my NASC is a great guy...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can I get his contact info, might be good addition to my web page... you can email me if forum rules prohibit it 

Thanks, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03/09/2009 1:07 PM
Chuck, when a TIU goes "bad", is this when you return it to the factory? I'm figuring if you have everything else right, that's the final alternative. 

(p.s. if you would go to my site, check over the DCS page and see if I've got most of it right... you can search for DCS to go right to the page... thanks) 

Regards, Greg




Hi Greg, 

I just finished off reading the DCS info that you have compiled on your website. I say that as a newbie to DCS that I find it most informative. I see an opportunity to build quickly on the information that you have and secondly to validate same. 


Have you considered opening a new thread on MLS and "pasting" this info from your site into the opening posting with the eye to get everyone's feedback? 

This would bring out the experienced and seasoned DCS people with their valued input. 


Thanks for putting this info together. With everyone's input and when combined with Ray's site, there are opportunities for a powerhouse of info on DCS for people who are new or have challenges. I see the same type of potential for DCC people and their challenges. 


Regards, 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks GG. 

Well, I would want my information to be a whole lot better before I posted it to MLS! 

Give me a couple more months, and then a better organization and more shortcuts and quick links, and then maybe I'll believe it's good enough to present. I'm still on a steep learning curve, but feel a bit more comfortable with it now. Of all the original problems I encountered with my buddies' two systems, only one piece is not working... will have to attack that one next. I suspect we also have an incorrect 4 pin patch cord. 

Regards, Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

For all the info you need about DCS go to this site:
http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/
you can look at the DCS info page
http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/DCS_Tips.htm
Ray provides links to backup files for dcs releases. He's got mod and install pages. Very good (best!) site for DCS users. Joe


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