# Comments on new Aristo Revo Trackside / "Super Receiver"



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, this is not out yet, but things seem a bit confusing.

Aristo is making a higher amperage "receiver" like the 27 MHz "trackside" it has sold for years.

But, there's some twists:

Dear All,

This Super Receiver does not have a Linear option as does our current CRE55470 and we do not want people to think it operates in a linear mode like the earlier model. Yes, you can use it to power your entire track if you house it inside a model building for example.

The power requirements are for you so set the receiver up at full power in the tx setting and then have the train assignment modify that power to a full stop and then upwards in speed.

It's a semantics issue and after having a linear option for 15 years or so we want to not cause confusion in the marketplace.

All the best,
Lewis Polk 
First, the absence of a linear mode is not a good idea in my opinion, because many sound cards, and "multi-purpose" DCC/DC decoders will not work on pulse power.

The next revelation:

Dear All,

I want to tell you that the new base station must be run with your track power set to the highest level or it will not work well. Battery is not a problem, but it does require full power on the track current. Is there anyone that would be a problem for????

All the best,
Lewis Polk 

It appears that this new unit cannot run at lower voltages as the previous Trackside Train Engineer. Exactly what minimum voltage is required is not stated, but the warning speaks volumes.

So, for people who like to run a loop of track from a "trackside" unit, and then also run trains on that same loop of track with onboard units (like Ward Hutton does), there may be some issues.

There may be something deeper here too, not having a linear mode probably saves money or makes it smaller, but it also means you can't use a QSI or Zimo or Digitrax or ESU or Sierra unit on the output.

Why do I say "deeper"? Because it's NOT a semantics issue, how could having a linear output option "cause confusion in the marketplace" when the current 27 MHz Trackside has had it for what, 10 years?

Just a heads up for people planning to go to the "next" generation of Aristo Train Engineer, you might be taking a step back.

Regards, Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have to add this, it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation:

Dear Peter,

Yes, you can use the Super Receiver with any DC motored train. The Linear mode was primarily for some older style sound boards that did not have correct components for PWC. Since DCC requires a PWC like signal most sound units can now work without Linear[/b]. We will have an adapter board ready in a few months for those people with older Soundtrax boards for instance.All the best,Lewis Polk 

Aristocraft:

You have it *exactly* backwards.

The "PWC like signal" will "fool" most DCC sound units into thinking there is a DCC signal, and they will not work properly. Your decision and misunderstanding has thus severely limited the number of sound units that will work with your new product.

Please reconsider and add the linear mode "back in", no more extra boards tacked on outside.

Greg Elmassian


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Chapter X; The Super Receiver. 
And so the saga continues.... 
Stay tuned, same bat channel, same bat logic..... 

Thanks Greg, is everything backwards on the other side of the world? Add smiley here.... 

John


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

From the comments on the Aristo forum it's pretty clear that they intend it to be used as a reciever inside a loco, not as a trackside unit. I'm still confused what he means by full power? If I was a battery power guy I'd be asking what that minimum voltage is that it needs for supply. It seems like they are trying squeeze out the DCC sound decoder guys and force people to use their Revo and secondary sound like Phoenix. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Until recently, it was called a Trackside unit, and this product was requested from the get-go. Since many people have used the original 27 MHz Trackside inside locos, making this fill that niche makes sense. 

I was likewise surprised that there was not voltage specification given. 

I hope that information is forthcoming. 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like there is info out there on The Forum That Shall Not be Named. I'm sure it'll turn up soon... 

Keith


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually Sierra Sound can run just fine on regular pwm track voltage. As long as it is powered by its own battery and it reads track power via terminals # 7 & # 8. 
You can even use Sierra with a pwm ESC on board wired the same way. 
BUT!!! 
In this configuration you will have to use relays or optos to trigger the sounds. 

The problem using pwm with Sierra is when the Sierra is powered by the same on board batteries and a battery powered ESC. 
The common ground causes the Sierra to think it is getting full voltage. It is in this instance that an opto coupler to "filter" the pwm going into terminals # 7 & # 8 is needed. Then it would be OK to trigger the sounds with straight connections to the ESC triggers. 

I for one will be intrigued to see an effective after market PWM output filter that can handle 15 amps.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a note to share that you can see one in operation at the SWGRS on Saturday and one will be on display at the BTS. 

The receiver is capable of many things and it's works very practically.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, it's not capable of linear. 

Not to try to put a damper on it Stan, but since you made the statement, what are the "many things"? 

Other than more amps, what functional differences does it have beyond a "regular" Revo receiver? 

Regards, Greg


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Certainly not a damper, Greg. 

The receiver is capable of everything that the "onboard" does. For use as an onboard it will control lighting, has up to 6 trigger functions, an on board sound socket and it will practially handle much higher current draw. 

I've been very pleased with it's performance both as an onboard battery powered controller easily controlling a 4 locomotive FABBA consist and well as it's versatility as a simple 4 wire hookup between the 15 amp remote trackside unit easily handling 2 Dash 9's and an Aristo Craft Mallet running on the same track powered by a 15 amp Bridgewerks power supply. The FABBA consist will be running on Saturday at the SWGRS for those who might be interested.

Is it all things to all people??? Nope. Nothing is. But very simply, it works. 

This is my personal opinion which I can state from the experience of using it, I very much like the idea of wiring multiple locomotives together of the same type with the same type of motor block and running them as one unit. Will everyone want to do this? Nope. But with this receiver, that capability is now possible for those who might want to do that. 

Dave Bodnar has done a comprehensive report on the trackside receiver which is now published on LSOL to be read by their members.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well heckfire, I just paid my $30 to renew at LSOL (was $40 but I had a discount code), so will go read it. 

But just to be clear, the "super receiver" is just a higher amperage version of the Revo receiver with some connections as screw terminals, rather than pins for the socket from your description. The "normal" revo already has the 6 functions so that's not different. 

I agree, being able to run more locos from the same receiver is an often requested function. 

I do have one question, I'm guessing it does not need the "capacitor board" for track power, any experience with it on track power? 

Regards, Greg


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04 Jun 2010 08:00 AM 
I do have one question, I'm guessing it does not need the "capacitor board" for track power, any experience with it on track power? 

Regards, Greg Greg, I honestly haven't tried it using the track for input power to the receiver. Just my guess, because the new receiver is 4 times the size of the original receivers to handle the increased amperage, it would be more convenient to use the present onboard receivers in each locomotive if one wanted to use track power for input. Again, that's just my guess.

See you Saturday. 

We're at the Fairplex setting up the Live Steam track.....

It's gonna be a fun time.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gotcha Stan. 

Although, the pitch from Aristo is to be able to use this onboard for multiple locos (thus the statement explaining renaming it from "trackside" to "super").... 

But, with track power, no space is used by batteries, so there's even more room in a loco... so it would seem to be even more convenient space-wise with track power. 

Anyway, both methods can work, was figuring that cost wise, using onboard, the "sweet spot" would be 3 or more locos connected, 2 locos would be cheaper to use 2 "standard" revolution receivers. 

The good news, is whether Aristo is aiming there or not, this can be used as a trackside setup, which is very popular with many customers. 

Regards, Greg


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

For use as an onboard it will control lighting, has up to 6 trigger functions, an on board sound socket and it will practially handle much higher current draw. 

Stan, 
Is the "on board sound socket" used to power a sound card with the variable output voltage?


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Ward.... It does not have a socket like the original, smaller "on board' units and is direct wired like the older 10 amp TE receivers. Input polarity is critical on this unit. Plus to plus and negative to negative.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you forget the recent name change, this is the Revolution Train Engineer Trackside unit. 

Same concept as 27 MHz Trackside Train Engineer, except it has the function outputs and no linear mode. 

Like the old TE, It has higher amps than the "onboard" plug and play unit and screw terminals and does not plug into a socket, and it is larger than the onboard unit. 

It's the logical next step, in fact many people asked for the trackside unit before the onboard one, if you look back at the posts on the Aristo forum when it was announced. 

It's a step forwards from the old system, especially in the area of accessory controllers, which were miserable on the 27 MHz stuff. 

Regards, Greg


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04 Jun 2010 09:09 PM 
If you forget the recent name change, this is the Revolution Train Engineer Trackside unit. 

Same concept as 27 MHz Trackside Train Engineer, except it has the function outputs and no linear mode. 

Like the old TE, It has higher amps than the "onboard" plug and play unit and screw terminals and does not plug into a socket, and it is larger than the onboard unit. 

It's the logical next step, in fact many people asked for the trackside unit before the onboard one, if you look back at the posts on the Aristo forum when it was announced. 

It's a step forwards from the old system, especially in the area of accessory controllers, which were miserable on the 27 MHz stuff. 

Regards, Greg 

This is has been a very informative thread and it raises a question....for me anyway

I use a 27Mhz TE. The instructions say the use of PWC with non-Aristo locomotives is not recommend....so I have mine set for linear. So, if the new "Super Receiver" is PWC only how will I be able to run non Aristo locos (ie USAT) ? Will they be affected?

Please excuse my ignorance but I never really understood why I couldn't run in PWC and never tried it.

Thanks
Gary


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

You'll be fine running PWC with other manufacturers. Most DCC and R/C systems use PWC to control the speed of the loco, and they're compatible with all the brands. There _may_ be issues with certain manufacturers' factory electronics. LGB was famous for insisting that only their linear power supplies be used for their trains so to avoid damage to the electronics. I've always been cynical of that. It's curious that Aristo would advise against using PWC for other manufacturers' trains when their trackside TE was the _only_ controller they made that actually allowed for a linear output. Their regular throttle doesn't, nor have any of the on-board TEs. 

Later, 

K


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Just don't expect a DCC decoder equipped loco to work correctly with the PWM output. 

Until and unless of course, AristoCraft come up with a pwm smoother add on pcb. I eagerly await to see how they get one of those to work up to 15 - 20 amps without overheating the FET drivers.


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

Gary, 

As I mentioned before on other threads, I use three Revolution On Board RXs as track side units, to supply variable power to my 3 tracks. I ran or currently run USAT S4s, a GP7 and a NW2 with no problem. My Bachmann Annie and Mogul have no problems with PWM. My LGB 0-4-0 with analoge sound and LGB Digital sound tender run on PWM and sound as they did with linear DC. 
The only problem I have run into with PWM is with the Sierra sound boards, which is a well known issue. 

I have read that newer USAT locos may have trouble with lighting affects and a Bachmann motor with a certain suppression board may have issues. Also that LGB locos with MTS will have issues. That makes sense to me since DCC is confused by the PWM signal. 

BTW, I used a 27Mhz TE before I switched to the Revo and ran the same locos with no problems. 

I have always believed that the Aristo caution about PWM and other locos was a blanket statement to cover themselves as well as a marketing thing.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Saw the Trackside unit at the BTS yesterday:

(Would have uploaded it yesterday but the upload for MLS is 200k and it's bad enough I reduce to 800x600 for my web site, but the file was still too big and I don't want to sacrifice image quality!)

Looks well build, and I have only one suggestion for improvement, which Aristo is already "on", a better physical connection for the input, which is where the two wires are soldered on the surface at the upper right corner.

Navin and I looked it over carefully and there are 2 holes at the solder pads and 2 more other holes near by so I'm confident that adequate strain relief will be no problem.

The output FETs are much larger, and of a design that transfers the heat to the heat sink more efficiently. The thermal conductive "rubber" between the FETs and the heat sink is likewise thinner, again improving thermal transfer. While there is no thermal problem with the "standard" onboard Revo, this additional improvement in design should guarantee that you can run these to the max output with no problem.


The radio module is the same as on the "onboard" Revo, so no surprises expected there.

It's worth repeating that this unit is basically a high current Revo, that includes the same function outputs and uses the same connectors. (the 27 MHz Trackside is track power only, no functions)


Obviously it will not install into the socket, the output and input are by heavy gauge wire or screw terminals, as befits a high current device. 

One small, but welcome improvement is the use of an automotive-style blade fuse, which are superior in this application than glass fuses in my opinion. Easier to find, more rugged, less costly, and designed for lower voltage applications like DC trains.

Regards, Greg


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, Ward and Tony .... 
Many thanks for the information. It clarifies a lot of my concerns. The PWC/Linear matter is something I have always wondered about, so I am happy I finally got the question cleared up. And hey.... today I ran my 27Mhz in PWC rather than linear and my USAT locos ran beautifully and the world did not end.  
Appreciate the advice. 
Gary


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