# Hello from Indiana, USA



## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

Hello all. I model in N and HO, but am considering a G layout, outside as I've got a good bit of room. Though, it will be a couple years down the road. Thought I'd start my information collecting now and see what's what.

Found several references to this site on other forums, so thought I register and say hello.


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi RCB,

Welcome to MLS. Can you give us More info, like what eara are you interested in, early narrow gauge, standard gauge, steam or diesel, electric or live steam. Do you want your layout on the ground or raised above ground?? Ther is a lot of help here, just give us an idea of what you are interested in.

Chuckger


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## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Welcome to MLS! 

I am sure that you will find great help here. 

Alec


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## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, I'm not particularly set on any one in particular. However, in N I run C&O mostly with some B&O. That being said, I have interest in maybe a 0-6-0 C&O switcher. Though, also being a fan of the GP30's I've had the thought of running a Chessie GP30 as it was Chessie (and B&O previously) that ran through the Tunnelton Tunnel which I grew up near and now live reasonably close by. 

I can say I have been intrigued by the engines that have internal power supplies with remotes. 

I have no specific plans currently. Right now I want to see what's out there, what it costs and the sort of maintenance I will be looking at as it's near 100 degrees here in the summer and below freezing in the winter. 

Currently I know next to zero, so I don't want to hedge myself in before I know what I could get into. 

Probably will run it above ground for the most part. i have a scenic bank that leads down to a bluff. I have been wanting to put a walkway and deck on it. Thinking about integrating a train into that in some fashion. At least partly. Again, no firm idea, but it could make for some at ground level and some above ground level. Though it would all set beneath tree canopies.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The first thing you might want to consider after figuring out what era/gauge is how you want to run the trains--battery or track power? Large scale's size makes batteries an option, and a lot of people prefer it. Myself, I run on DCC and really like it. Battery vs track power tends to be a constant source of debate and some friction. They both have advantages and disadvantages. 

But settling on one or the other determines a lot of your subsequent choices. For example, with battery power you can use aluminum rail, much cheaper. But if you know you want to run a lot of locos, DCC can be a much cheaper option after the initial investment. 

You may already know that there are multiple scales sharing the same G gauge track. The most common are 1:20, which treats the G scale track as 3 foot narrow gage, and 1:29 which might be imagined as a blown-up version of 1:32, the correct scale for standard gage. There is much more commercial stuff available in 1:29 than in 1:32. There's also 1:24, less common now than it used to be but still out there as a kind of compromise scale. Oops I just saw your response. If you want a mainline diesel like the GP 30 your only options at present are in 1:29.


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## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

I can definitely say that I will likely want battery pack power with my climate. I thought it was a good idea anyhow. I don't fancy trying to run wiring for that much track. the bank covers about 4 acres, but where i would likely to put a deck is about 15-20 yards by 30 ish yards. The wife and I are still a ways from making a firm decision, but while we are planning, hehe...


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

For what it's worth I only have two wires going to my track. You don't need a lot of wiring with DCC, and where I live we get snow and winter temps in the teens, and summer temps regularly in the 90s. It's true you have to clean the track, but I've found this to be mostly a trivial job. Even on batteries you still have to clear leaves and twigs and other debris. You have to invest more upfront--the track joints have to be good, clamping them or soldering them is best. But once you have the DCC system in place you can add multiple locos with sound for much less than the cost of a battery pack, a wireless receiver, and a soundcard. 

But battery has lots of adherents and it's proven to work well. It's possible to have battery power and a DCC decoder, so effectively you have battery powered DCC. You can do this with the Airwire system or with QSI's "Gwire" system. But there also some very sophisticated control systems for battery power


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## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

Out of curiosity, what's a sound card usually run vs a DCC sound card?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The best stand alone sound cards for large scale come from Phoenix sound, and run about $180-240 dollars. Phoenix makes one card which can be triggered by just about anything, and a cheaper card designed to be DCC compliant. There are some cheaper alternatives (google "mylocosound" for ex) which to my ears sound a lot worse but might be fine. It's really pretty limited at the moment. If I was running battery I think--and I may be wring--Phoenix would be my only option for sound. Dallee makes a sound card which used to be pretty bad but I've heard them sound pretty good at trains shows. They sell for under $100. But they used to be monophonic--when the whistle blew the motor sound stopped. 

Aristocraft is supposedly going to introduce a sound card which will work with their Revolution control system. A prototype appeared briefly last year, and it's been crickets since then. If they make a decent sound card at a decent price it will make the Revo system very attractive 

DCC sound cards vary--QSI made an excellent sound/motor decoder that ran about $150, which was a bargain, since you got motor and lights and sound in one card. It's been out of production and is due to be replaced by a new sound and motor card which has been delayed for a year now. I've been waiting impatiently for a while--qsi cards had excellent sound and a lot of nice features. Zimo makes a large scale soundcard, so does ESU, both end up closer to $200. Massoth makes one as well. I have not tried any of those but they get excellent reviews. Digitrax makes some in my opinion inferior cards which can work in large scale.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Turns out that a combination DCC motor and sound card is about the same as the Phoenix sound card, so you will have the additional cost of a controller and batteries per loco. 

Over 4 locos, DCC track power is cheaper than the equivalent remote control system running batteries. The one time investment of the DCC system is what stops people many times. 

But you have lots of options... 

Main thing I want to say, no matter what you choose, putting your tracks under trees means more track cleaning, i.e. getting the junk off the rails so you don't have derailments, and also tree sap and seeds/fruit are no fun either. 

This is true powered track or not. 

Think about the maintenance of the track, it will need periodic adjustments, and re-leveling... adding more work from the trees may not be fun. 

Regards, Greg


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## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

I had considered that, but the fields are used for crops and livestock for the most part. That, and as I mentioned we are planning to put a deck of sorts on the bank (overlooks a bluff and creek... very scenic). I'd love to tie in an outdoor rail setup with our shaded outdoor rest area. But I do know what you are saying. Troublesome for upkeep, but better that I can enjoy it in the shade during the day or whenever I like in my opinion. 

One question for those living in continental climes; if you have trusses and such, have you had many issues with dangerous spiders or hornets and such? I am guessing it just takes diligence to keep such things away. We have occasional run-ins with black widows, brown recluses (though likely not an issue in this case) and hornets favoring things that look just like trusses, such as fuel tank supports, benches and other such structures. 

On yet another question, this time regarding rail. Though I'd like to do aluminum, I have one fear: metal thieves. We've had problems with them before, taking anything within an easy grab if it fetches cash at a scrap yard. We have no proper neighbors (about an eighth of a mile down the road), and even if we did it doesn't help much around here. They've been caught digging up culverts to scrap... culverts still in use. Hard times I suppose. My trains wouldn't be kept outside, but still, it's a thought.


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## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

Regarding DCC, the Airwire mentioned previous... my current DCC system is NCE. Are there wireless systems you can combine with miscellaneous manufacturers of DCC?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

How old are you and how long have you been in the other scales? 

PS
OH, its far more cheaper to run RC battery cars when you have over 5 locos.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Metal thieves--terrible. Aristocraft and Trainli have both experimented with plastic rail. As far as I can tell, the verdict is it expands and contracts too much, and warps. But if someone perfects it, it'd be a great alternative for battery operation. And I'd use it in my storage shed. 

NCE makes a throttle designed specifically to work with QSI decoders: 

http://qsisolutions.com/products/nce-gwire-procab.html 

It gets expensive though--you need Gwire throttle, the QSI decoder plus a "gwire" card which receives the DCC signals. It works very well, but the Gwire card adds @$100 bucks per loco. Airwire has some capability for operating switches and accessories, but you need to power them somehow. One of the reasons I went with DCC was the ease of powering lights and switch motors from the track


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## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, as I said, I'm still a good two years away if this is something I really decide to do. 

I've been into trains since my youth. I am a wee lad by comparison in the local train club, just shy of 36 years old. Like so many, I got into HO in the 8-9 category (got my first set when I was 6, but 8-9 is when actual modeling started to bite). My dad was into HO, but my mother liked N scale. Anyhow I stayed in HO until about 7 years ago. Sold everything and stuck to planes and helicopters. Then a few years back my mother passed away and I got some of her N scale things. Deciding to get back into it, I went N scale this go around, and naturally my wife bit into HO... but at least she enjoys our train outings. 

Darn shame about the plastic rail succumbing to temperature so much. Even though all the aluminum in the track I would use probably wouldn't come up to a hundred pounds, I have serious doubts of thieve's logic. 

Airwire does seem interesting. Is everything for dcc contained in the the cab?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The airwire throttle is effectively a handheld DCC command station. Same with the QSI throttle. I like the QSI throttle/cab much better, but the airwire worked well for me. 

The advantage of a DCC system over something like Aristo's REVO system is compatibility with other DCC components. 

DCC with batteries is cool--you get all the operational flexibility of DCC and the advantages of batteries, if that works for you. 

I would not be surprised if workable plastic rail eventually appears. The cost of track continues to go up, and lots of people like the idea of running on battery power. You could contact Axel at TrainLi. He could tell you what's the status on plastic rail. There was a thread on it here a while back--do a google search for "mylargescale" and plastic rail. The search engine on the forum software is completely useless


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Where are you in Indiana? 

Just east of Valparaiso is a nursery on Rte 2. On Saturdays during the summer the local garden railroad society runs their layout there. It is on the ground (actually in a raised planter) and uses all track wiring. They could probably help you out a lot if you can visit them. I guarantee they have all sorts of weather.


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## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

@Ironton 

I live down about half an hour east of Bedford Indiana. Valparaiso is a bit of a haul. I belong to the Columbus Area Model Railroaders, but they no longer have a garden scale setup since they moved and no one at all has one. 

Another question. I've noticed that plastic offerings seem to be mostly 1/29th, though the track gauge would say 1/32. Why has 1/29th become so popular? Just a bit larger? I am kind of a scale guy but I don't want to drop 20k for a hand full of 1/32 cars and engines when 1/29 is so much less expensive and seems to be more widely available. Just makes me scratch my head.


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## Dale W (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi RCB 
Living east of Bedford you are about an hour or two driving time from me (30 miles west of Indi). I run both battery (Revo) and track all under the trees. Yes, running in the woods does present some problems especially late summer/fall but I do love running in the shade among my hostas and other shade plants. 
As a member of Indianapolis Large Scalers I suggest you visit some of our member outdoor layouts here in central Indiana for ideas etc. A great bunch of guys who would will be glad to be helpful, like here really. 
Lets get in touch. 

Dale


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## rcb (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks. That'd be great. It'd be nice to see some in person. I'll send you a pm with some contact info.


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