# FAM PRR M1a exploration



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The new project for 2012-13...decided to peek at the electric running setup and "free" the engine from its bond & "chains" with the anticipation double heading with the PRR K4 in the near future.


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Charles, 

Why do the tenders have different lengths? 

jim


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Nice Charles. 

Jim, 
Check out this site 

http://kohs.com/PRR_K4_Pages/K4_tenders.html


Jim,
My bad, I had neglected to fully look over the engine. I mistook it for a K4s. That explains the differences on the boiler and length of firebox I was wondering about. That kohs site has some neat pictures of the process in making the brass K4 though.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jim 

The M1a tender is larger because it was for a freight engine, probably PRR Class 210 F 75. The K4 was passenger only and had a water scoop, so capacity was limited. I know some K4s received larger tenders based on service requirements in later years. 

See ==> http://www.wsbcos.com/tenders.htm 

According to Staufer's "Pennsy Power", page 160, three classes of Kiesel tenders were placed into service during the "1930's modernization". 
They were: 

90-P-75 (9700 gallons, 21 tons) 
110-P-75 (11,980 gallons, 18.5 tons) 
130-P-75 (13,475 gallons, 22 tons) 

I do not have an Aster K4, but if memory serves, the tender is a 110-P-75. 

Ryan or Charles can confirm the info.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim
If one sets aside the tender length then the differences in the engines are also impressive with the M1a eight feet long than the K4 engine. Overall M1a is 106 vs K4 at 84

Tractive effort
K4 44.5K
M1a 64.5 K

A single 4,000-horsepower M1 could handle up to 22 Pullmans at speed. 


Dr. Rivet
K4 ranged from 70-P-70 tender holding only 7,000 US gallons (26,000 l) of water and 12½ tons of coal s to the most widely used being the high, large-capacity Kiesel units originally designed in 1926 for the larger M1 engines. 
So, do not be surprise once we get the M1a under steam if our K4 shows up with the M1a tender pulling passenger cars!


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

The K4 as modeled by Aster uses the 110-P-70 tender, which is appropriate for the as-built appearance of the engine. This represents when the engine was a hand-bomber, since stokers were not installed on this tender class. Some rivet counting is necessary to distinguish this from it's near identical counterpart, the 110-P-75A, which was stoker equipped. 

The M1a passenger version in question indeed has a 210-F-75 tender, as Dr. Rivet stated earlier.


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

Charles said:


> The new project for 2012-13...decided to peek at the electric running setup and "free" the engine from its bond & "chains" with the anticipation double heading with the PRR K4 in the near future.


I know this is a very old thread, please forgive me. but, can someone give me some information on the 4-6-2 with the belpaire firebox?. i can't seem find any photos of that design unless they are older engines.


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

OldNoob said:


> I know this is a very old thread, please forgive me. but, can someone give me some information on the 4-6-2 with the belpaire firebox?. i can't seem find any photos of that design unless they are older engines.



The 4-6-2 looks to me like an Aster Pennsy K4 that was commissioned by John Gummo (Gauge One America) in the mid '80s. A really fine runner, they are available on the secondary market at very fair prices, one recently selling at auction in PA for about $1k !! The M1a is probably a Fine Art Models electric loco. Don't quote me, but in a post-Glasnost Russia there was a large source of skilled ex-aerospace workers and FAM in Michigan took advantage of the opportunity to have super fine showcase G1 models made in limited editions and very high standards. I saw one loco that was a real beauty, that would run back and forth on a straight track, but because it was built to such fine tolerances, as soon as it got to a curve the brake rigging would foul the wheels and short out!


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Well I just got one delivered almost to my door in a Paris Hobby shop! At a pretty good price considering shipping and customs. I have tried it out indoors but the weather here is too wretched at the present to try it out outdoors. It seems to negociate the curves without problems so far as well as my pointwork including a three way one. The workmanship is excellent indeed and to my utter amazement very sturdy. Its a passenger version like yours Charles. You know what I 'm happy (said the puppy!) I may make a doghouse for it as I have a photo of the very same engine N° 8707 in passenger striping with one, in the cyclopedia. I will be following this thread very closely Charles. best, Simon


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