# DCC - what to use?



## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

I am *"thinking about"* converting my layout to DCC but my experience with DCC on my HO layout is making me wary, mainly because I "jumped into it" too quickly. As such, and not wanting to make the same mistake again, can the following questions be answered for me please, in simple laymens terms: 

I have an NCE Power Cab with a 5 amp Booster (brand new, never been used):

1. Can I use that system for my G Gauge layout?
2. If not, what NCE (preferable) System or additional equipment would you recommend getting?***
3. What motor/sound decoder (make/model) would you recommend for the following:

a. USA GP38-2
b. Piko Mogul with sound

4. What is involved in converting the above engines to DCC?

NB: I have read a lot about DCC, none of which makes any sense to me due to it all being written with the attitude of the reader having *"assumed knowledge"* especially with the use of terminology. 

*Please assume that I have NO DCC knowledge (per se) or electrical knowledge what so ever. * 

*** I will be be running no more than 3 engines at any given time

Thanks guys will appreciate the advice.


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

My first thought would be to find a G scale club in your area. You will get a great amount of info from them. What area of NY. Someone may chime in.

To answer some questions, I'll ask a few. I am not an NCE user. Is your NCE system a 5 amp command station or 5 amp booster. I believe there is a difference and you need a command station to use a booster. Posting the model number would help and some one with more NCE experience will help. 5 amps should be enough for three engines depending on the amperage used. I have run 5 engines on a 7amp system with no problems.

For the GP38 a QSI Titan sound decoder or almost any other manufacturers sound decoder would work. Lok, Massoth, Zimo, to name a few.

Piko makes a decoder for their Moguls that is plug and play. But again most manufactures make decoders that would work.

Hope this is a start.
Steve


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

You can definitely start out with the equipment you currently have and then add an additional booster later if it turns out you need it. I have the NCE PH-10 system and am happy with it for running a couple locomotives/eggliners/whatnot at a time. I believe you can easily add a second booster later, if necessary.

To figure out if your 5amp system will be adequate, you need to have an idea how much current each loco will draw then add it up for how ever many will be running simultaneously. You'll also have to account for lighting, if your cars are going to be lit. Somewhere Greg recently posted about a train he runs that draws (drew?) 9 amps--double-headed locos and a good number of lighted cars that don't use LEDs.

As for decoders, it comes down to price, power, and features. You can run small single-motor locomotives off inexpensive decoders--I have a couple egg liners running on O/HO decoders that I picked up for a song. If your locos draw more current, you'll need a higher amperage decoder. Then there's the question of features. Do you just want motor control and lights, do you want sound and smoke, what about function outputs to run remote uncouplers? I have Zimo and ESU sound decoders, but that's because I have European locomotives and wanted the Euro sounds.

Fitting decoders is going to be much like your HO experience. Isolate the track pickups and connect to decoder input. Connect the motor(s) to the decoder motor outputs. Connect the lights to the decoder function outputs. The Piko loco should have a wiring harness that makes it relatively easy to fit a decoder (based on my Piko BR80 experience). Someone else I'm sure can point you in the right direction on the USAT loco.


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks Gents,

Steve, I have a basic NCE Power Cab with a 5 amp Booster. The LHS guy told me they would work together BUT who knows when they are just wanting to make a sale.

Riderdan, thanks for the info and am glad that what I have should work. After reading your "fitting decoders is going to be ..." I think I will have someone who knows what they are doing fit them. Frankly, you lost me when you said "...Isolate the track pick ups..." Sorry, I'm not exactly what you would call electronically inclined 

As for what I want in a decoder, basically motor functions, lighting and sound but nothing over the top - just the basic functions for each engine.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Many of the Piko locomotives come with sound and DCC already installed. What is the Piko stock number?


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## Dennis Cherry (Feb 16, 2008)

NCE Power Cab and 5 amp booster is a good starter point. That will get you 2-3 engines running as long as they are not huge engines or many cars. If only running one engine at a time then bigger engine and more cars can be used.

I am running a Lenz 5 amp system with 5 engines on the track at one time and powered up, but only run 2 at a time on the track.

Tell use more about what manufacturer and engine models.

Dennis in Tennessee


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You could add another higher capability booster to your PowerCab, or you could go to a 10 amp NCE system and use the power cab as a regular wired cab, but I don't think that model can be upgraded to a wireless cab. The NCE system supports wireless cabs.

I have used Digitrax, but I prefer the more extensive screen display of the NCE and it is great outdoors in full sun.

I am currently evaluating using a Zimo system, but it's mostly because of the availability of a 20 amp booster.

Greg


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Treeman said:


> Many of the Piko locomotives come with sound and DCC already installed. What is the Piko stock number?


They do - I didn't see anything on the web site when I bought the Mogul. Is this what you need to know:

PIKO 30104 SP Mogul Loco 1727 w/Tender, Lights, Sound and Smoke



Dennis Cherry said:


> NCE Power Cab and 5 amp booster is a good starter point. That will get you 2-3 engines running as long as they are not huge engines or many cars. If only running one engine at a time then bigger engine and more cars can be used.
> 
> I am running a Lenz 5 amp system with 5 engines on the track at one time and powered up, but only run 2 at a time on the track.
> 
> ...


I only intend running 2 trains tops, one steamer - the Piko Mogul with light sound and smoke plus 4 or 5 cars and a USAT GP38-2 pulling up to, but no more than, 8 cars.

I doubt I will run both trains together, although would like the opportunity to.



Greg Elmassian said:


> You could add another higher capability booster to your PowerCab, or you could go to a 10 amp NCE system and use the power cab as a regular wired cab, but I don't think that model can be upgraded to a wireless cab. The NCE system supports wireless cabs.
> 
> I have used Digitrax, but I prefer the more extensive screen display of the NCE and it is great outdoors in full sun.
> 
> ...


Greg,

I really don't mind NOT being wireless to be honest so going up to a 10 amp with the Power Cab might be the better way for me to go. I am assuming, from what you said, that I can buy another 5 amp booster and ADD that to the 5 amp Booster I already have - is that right? Or, would I be better off buying a straight out 10 amp Booster and keep the 5 amp as a "backup" perhaps?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There are some 5 amp boosters that can be paralleled... You need to look into them.

You have a 5 amp booster already, is it the NCE one?

Greg


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## crackerjackhoghead (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm no DCC expert but I'm using a NCE 5 amp wireless cab (without any booster) and It runs three Bachmann engines, with QSI decoders, without any trouble. I'm about to add a QSI decoder to an Accucraft engine as well.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The booster is built into your box... in the 10 amp system, the command station and booster are in separate boxes.

If you start running smoke, you can add another amp of draw to each loco.

Greg


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## crackerjackhoghead (Aug 5, 2010)

Greg, It's probably been discussed elsewhere but do you have any recommendations for a smoke unit? Also, have you heard of anyone having issues with smoke fluid splattering and damaging paint?

Jeff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes and Yes!

The simple type of smoke unit with just a heater, like my Bachmann shay will often spit, although you might try different smoke fluids.

You might search my site (search box at bottom of every page) for smoke unit... got a lot on them, and there's a number of options.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB smoke fluid is for cleaning as well as smoke and is used to bring back the 'luster' on their finish.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have purchased about 6 or 10 different types, lost count. You could experiment to see which least affects your paint.

Better yet, if you really enjoy smoke, then use one in a "direct drive" setup where you put more current into the heater and pulse the fan. I have examples and even a video showing a USAT one on my site, and there's a number of videos out there.

The fan driven ones don't "spit" in my experience, the fan keeps everything moving, not settling.

I'd first figure out what you want, and how to drive it.

Greg


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Greg Elmassian said:


> There are some 5 amp boosters that can be paralleled... You need to look into them.
> 
> You have a 5 amp booster already, is it the NCE one?
> 
> Greg


Greg,

Yes it is the NCE 5 amp Booster I have.



crackerjackhoghead said:


> I'm no DCC expert but I'm using a NCE 5 amp wireless cab (without any booster) and It runs three Bachmann engines, with QSI decoders, without any trouble. I'm about to add a QSI decoder to an Accucraft engine as well.


Sounds as though my NCE system will handle what I have and intend to run, no more than 2 trains with a max of 8 cars, lighting and sound.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Pretty much unless you add more load. Also, if you get near your 5 amps, you could look into changing the passenger car lights to LEDs if they are not already.

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Piko 30104 has factory installed DCC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't all the new Piko locos come with DCC and sound now?

Greg


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Treeman said:


> Piko 30104 has factory installed DCC.


Darn, well then that is a saver for me. Thanks Treeman and I have to ask - where did you find that information please?


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Pretty much unless you add more load. Also, if you get near your 5 amps, you could look into changing the passenger car lights to LEDs if they are not already.
> 
> Regards, Greg


Greg,

Thanks for the confirmation. I was looking at the Piko Vintage American Passenger Car lighting setup, but only looking at the moment, more important other things to get first.

If that setup isn't LED then I wont get it anyway and will build my own LED lighting setup. Obviously, if I do that I will need to get a set of powered trucks, so long as they make them for G Gauge.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, there are lots of options to pick up power, especially if you are only running LEDs... motors take a bit more heavy duty construction.

You can buy really nice LED strips for pretty cheap on ebay if you don't mind waiting for them to ship from China.

Greg


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## crackerjackhoghead (Aug 5, 2010)

_wombat457,
Just an update, the first time I bought QSI decoders the only manual I got with them was a thin pamphlet that seemed to assume that the user already knew all there was to know about DCC and it took me a while to figure it all out. However, yesterday, I received a new decoder that I had ordered and it came with two very comprehensive booklets, one on installation and one on programing the decoder. It was a vast improvement over what I got the first time!
_


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Yep, there are lots of options to pick up power, especially if you are only running LEDs... motors take a bit more heavy duty construction.
> 
> You can buy really nice LED strips for pretty cheap on ebay if you don't mind waiting for them to ship from China.
> 
> Greg


Greg,

Thanks and I look forward to getting lights in my Vintage American Passenger Cars; however, I wont buy anything off of evil bay, I would much rather pay a little more and know what I am paying upfront and know that I will get it.



crackerjackhoghead said:


> _wombat457,
> Just an update, the first time I bought QSI decoders the only manual I got with them was a thin pamphlet that seemed to assume that the user already knew all there was to know about DCC and it took me a while to figure it all out. However, yesterday, I received a new decoder that I had ordered and it came with two very comprehensive booklets, one on installation and one on programing the decoder. It was a vast improvement over what I got the first time!
> _


Thanks for the update and the "assumed knowledge" thing seems to be the norm for most companies. Either that or, their manuals are written in such technical terms (Digitrax for example) that a novice has no or little chance of understanding them. It's nice to know that at least one company is capable of doing things for the "novice user".


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you read my site, on the QSI Titan page, the FIRST thing you are told in bold letters is to get the full manual.

It's a delicate balance, between a quick start guide and the "full Monty"... you really cannot win, someone always wants something that is not in the quick start guide, and EVERYONE complains about a 270 page manual. 

http://www.elmassian.com/dcc/specific-manufacturers/qsi-equipment/qsi-titan.html

(I have quite a few pages on the QSI, check out the full menus)

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Don't all the new Piko locos come with DCC and sound now?
> 
> Greg


Quite a few do, but not all.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Mike, I guess I was thrown off by all the whining about not being forced to buy a decoder when they did not want it ha ha!

(for some reason people think removing the decoder will save them hundreds of dollars)

Greg


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## MyMiniatureWorlds (May 3, 2015)

wombat457 said:


> If that setup isn't LED then I wont get it anyway and will build my own LED lighting setup. Obviously, if I do that I will need to get a set of powered trucks, so long as they make them for G Gauge.


I've just finished installing my custom interior lighting in one of my G scale coaches. It turned out really good. You can check my progress here: http://my-miniature-worlds.blogspot.com/2015/08/custom-interior-lighting-in-g-scale.html

Perhaps you'll be able to re-use some information


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

MyMinitureWorlds,

Thanks for the link, am going to take a look now.

Nice write up and you make it sound easy to do. I have two (soon to be four) Vintage American Cars that I would like to light so your write up is going to be invaluable to me, especially as I have never done anything like this before.


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

MMW,

Just looked at the cost and availability of the wheel sets you used (35mm) The 36165 sets seem pretty common; however the others (36168) seem hard to find. Can you tell me where you purchased yours please?


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## MyMiniatureWorlds (May 3, 2015)

wombat457 said:


> MMW,
> 
> Just looked at the cost and availability of the wheel sets you used (35mm) The 36165 sets seem pretty common; however the others (36168) seem hard to find. Can you tell me where you purchased yours please?


PIKO 36168 is a new product for this year but they should be available everywhere already (sorry for the late reply, by the way).

I'm from Poland and I do most of my shopping in a German online store: http://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com/


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