# Lifetime of Tenergy ion-lithium battery



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

I would like to hear the experience from others regarding the Tenergy ion-lithium battery. It seems to me after > 3 years, the battery degraded to the point it won't power the train. I use the RC-receiver/transmitter and ESC from Turnigy. What happened in the past few days was that there was normal response sound from the ESC but the locomotive did not run. I opened it up and found everything is normal in terms of the response from the transmitter/receiver and ESC, but again the train did not run. Then, I removed the Tenergy ion-lithium battery (14.8V) from the locomotive and connected the ESC directly to the DC-transformer, and the train started to run normally. Based on this diagnosis, it suggested that the battery degraded. I just ordered new Tenery ion-lithium battery and will assemble it this evening and will update you more. 
Wellington


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I just ordered new Tenery ion-lithium battery


I think I would have ordered one from a different supplier!


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Pete Thornton said:


> I think I would have ordered one from a different supplier!


PETE, 
Do you know any other suppliers, please let me know so I can try in the near future. I just found another locomotive that has the same issue. I will check the battery again to confirm my observation.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

How do you store them?

They should not be stored at full voltage.


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I have 10 Tenergy battery packs of varying mAh capacities. The oldest is from 2013 and the newest is from 2016. I use the Tenergy TLP-4000 Universal 1A Smart Charger.

They are all performing just fine, have not noticed any degradation and none have failed as yet.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Lithium-ion batteries begin to degrade from the day they are manufactured. It's just the nature of their battery chemistry. In addition, they lose around 20% of their capacity after 1000 charge cycles. We've all had to replace a cell phone battery, or a laptop battery after using it a while. Nature of the beast.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/how-to/a7432/why-your-gadgets-batteries-degrade-over-time-6705747/


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Treeman said:


> How do you store them?
> 
> They should not be stored at full voltage.


The battery pack is inside the locomotive with charger, I just plug in to charge when they are empty.


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Dwight Ennis said:


> Lithium-ion batteries begin to degrade from the day they are manufactured. It's just the nature of their battery chemistry. In addition, they lose around 20% of their capacity after 1000 charge cycles. We've all had to replace a cell phone battery, or a laptop battery after using it a while. Nature of the beast.
> 
> https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/gadgets/how-to/a7432/why-your-gadgets-batteries-degrade-over-time-6705747/


Agreed, I notice after a few years now, the running time is significantly shorter, estimating about 30% shorter than when the battery was new.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

mymodeltrain<


If you’ll please provide data specific to your care, feedingand use of the failed Li-Ion batteries, collectively we maybe able to offer whatmay have led to the demise of your batteries.

Age: 2017

Voltage: 14.8

Capacity: ?

Charger model number and or specifications: ?

Charging frequency/interval: ? (can you estimate total charge/runcycles)

Typical run time(s): ?

Are your loco’s fitted with the same batteries? 

Please call out the loco brand/model?

Please describe your typical operation, i.e., charge andrun trains until train stops, run trains with partially charged battery until theystop, stop train prior to depleting batteries???

Please describe how you care for the batteries after arun?

There is a lot of misinformation out there with regard tothe “proper use” and charging demands of said batteries. 

Tenergy like all other battery technology resellers, purchases OEM cells and assembles and or packages them as battery packs for resale. Whose OEM cell is utilized is an unknown unless it called out in Tenergy's specifications. Accordingly, all Tenergy packs are not of like origin, quality, age and more. As an example, one 14.8V battery maybe comprised of Panasonic cells while others maybe use Sanyo, LG Chem or others. The quality and shelf life of the cells used to assemble a given run of batteries, together with the careand use of said batteries will dictate its life span.

Michael


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

mymodeltrain said:


> I would like to hear the experience from others regarding the Tenergy ion-lithium battery. It seems to me after > 3 years, the battery degraded to the point it won't power the train. I use the RC-receiver/transmitter and ESC from Turnigy. What happened in the past few days was that there was normal response sound from the ESC but the locomotive did not run. I opened it up and found everything is normal in terms of the response from the transmitter/receiver and ESC, but again the train did not run. Then, I removed the Tenergy ion-lithium battery (14.8V) from the locomotive and connected the ESC directly to the DC-transformer, and the train started to run normally. Based on this diagnosis, it suggested that the battery degraded. I just ordered new Tenery ion-lithium battery and will assemble it this evening and will update you more.
> Wellington


I just installed a new Tenergy battery and the locomotive works fine, again.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Dwight is correct, the life cycle of Lithium cells starts once the chemical matrix is combined. Batteries could be assembled years after the cells were first manufactured. Purchasing your batteries from a reputable battery assembler utilizing quality fresh inventory is paramount to happy life cycles.

FWIW: Some of the information of the Mechanics Illustrated article linked above is dated (2012) and or inaccurate IMO. As I often allude to there is a lot of misinformation out there with regard to Lithium batteries. If your interested in this type of information there are many sources with current and or accepted practices and realizations available online. The Battery University is one of many.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...AQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab#spf=1586224020071

Michael


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Michael Glavin said:


> mymodeltrain<
> 
> 
> If you’ll please provide data specific to your care, feedingand use of the failed Li-Ion batteries, collectively we maybe able to offer whatmay have led to the demise of your batteries.
> ...




Years of usage: ~3 years
Voltage: 14.8 V
Capacity: 2600 mAh
Charger: Tenergy Universal Smart Charger, 1.5 Amp for 14.8 V Lithium-ion batteries
Frequency of running time: 2 hours in the weekend during Fall/Winter; Spring: 4-6 h/week-end. So most of the time the locomotives just sit inside the garage. Sometimes, I run until the battery is dead, and would bring them back to the garage to plug the charger in. But most of the time, the locomotives have a half-full battery.
locomotive types: LGB or USA Trains.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Okay, some quick observations: 
The charger in play is appropriate for 14.8V, 2600mAh battery.

*NEVER* run the batteries down until the train stops!!!! Contrary to the miss-information that many abide by, this is detrimental to the batteries life cycle.

What specific loco's? The LGB's are likely fine, yet USAT engines are hungry and will pull more current than the LGB's. 

Best practice is to store your batteries partially charged, at STORAGE voltage which is typically 3.8V per cell as I recall.

Charge your batteries often with the appropriate current, do not wait until they are fully discharged, this is the established standard. Minimal discharges are best with a toping charge between use(s). 

I recommend reviewing the link I provided above for up to date accurate/proven/knowledge on all things battery. 

Michael


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Just to add, all of my receivers are the *G Scale Graphics RailBoss 4*. One of its features is a low battery warning and cutoff system for Lithium batteries. To my recollection I've only had it activate for one engine so I don't think I've ever fully drained any of my battery packs.


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Michael Glavin said:


> Okay, some quick observations:
> The charger in play is appropriate for 14.8V, 2600mAh battery.
> 
> *NEVER* run the batteries down until the train stops!!!! Contrary to the miss-information that many abide by, this is detrimental to the batteries life cycle.
> ...


Thanks, Michael for the experience, I will observe these steps in the future.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I have quit buying the 14.8v Tenergy batteries. I have had several of them fail in what I PERSONALLY think was a short life span. All my new ones are the 6800mah from Airwire. Time will tell.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Paul is not the first person to indicate that perhaps the Tenergy packs have changed in "lifespan", I've heard it from a number of our club members too.


I wish that packs came in clear shrink, so you could look inside and see the manufacturer of the batteries.



Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

https://www.batteryspace.com/

I have been happy with these folks for a long time. I started with their bike light /rechargeable flashlights for mine explorations, I could recharge in my truck away from home.
Then I used their NiMH tabbed batteries to make custom packs and then the Lithium packs after my others passed on....


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## traukinys (Jul 3, 2020)

about 2 to 3 years


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

"Average" for me is 5 years of reliable service. I've got some that have lasted much longer (10+ years) and others which have for whatever reason stopped working properly after two or three. I try to make the packs removable in my installations whenever practical, which cuts down on the number of batteries I need to buy. 

Later,

K


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

This a thread might support a "poll" of some sort...

I'd like to see others results with battery powered trains and their life cycle with Lithium-Ion batteries...

Single series battery packs such as 4 cell 1S4P; 2200mAh capacity batteries are likely to live much longer in my experience as compared to an 8 cell 2S4P 4400mAh battery or any combination of cells combined in series-parallel configuration.

Michael.....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I use lifetime in terms of effective full charge-discharge cycles, and I'm happy with the 350-400 cycles that is often quoted. Since I normally only run down 50% or less then I usually get 800 "uses" and I am happy.


Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

We have sold hundreds of the packs supplied by Air Wire, they have a low voltage cut off built into the pack. This will warn you that the cells are getting low and need to be disconnected. Lithum batteries are not to be stored long term at full voltage.


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