# RC and tunnels?



## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

I was thinking to build a sort of tunnel on my garden layout. About 2,5 to 2 meters long.
I was wondering if the tunnel will influence the RC controls. It will not be a 'deep' tunnel, just some groundcover on top. 
Has anyone has (good or bad) expierences with this? Does it depend on the sort of RC unit / reciever?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It can, but if you have little earth and NO metal, you should be ok. On DCC over the air (AirWire), there are settings for how long the loco will keep going without hearing a signal. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

A friend has a tunnel, plastic tube buried under ground. I can run an AirWire engine into the tunnel and control the speed inside with my system.


----------



## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a 6ft curving tunnel with concrete roof, using metal 1/2in fabric for reinforcing of the domed roof. I have had no problem with RC transmissions using Airwire, RCS, QSI, or Aristo TE [trailcar].



























JimC.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

My dad's got some relatively serious tunnels on his line (all of which violate the "two arm-lengths" rule by a fair margin), with some having 2, 3 feet of dirt on top of them to boot. To my knowledge, he's never experienced any problems with the commercial R/C systems losing control in the tunnels. He uses Airwire and RCS, and others who show up to operate have used Aristo and others, too. I'd be curious to try Aristo's new "Revolution" system through some serious tunnels--not because I have any doubts in its ability to work, but because it's got a graphic display of the signal strength between the transmitter and receiver. I'd just like to see how many bars the signal drops to in the middle of a 15' long tunnel, buried under 3' of dirt. 

"Can you hear me now?" 

Later, 

K


----------



## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Thanks all for your replies. Sounds like there will be no serious problems. The tunnel on Jims pictures is sort of how I have it in mind also. So I'm gonna give it a try very soon; I'l be back on this!


----------



## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

As a guy with no tunnels at the present time, I'll be anxious to hear how you make out. I do run my trains into a garage which is basically a metal sided pole barn, and I don't have any trouble with reception in there, when I'm outside!

Ed


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

My TE loses signal behind our palm tree.


----------



## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

Absolutely no prollems in tunnels, behind mountains, or around blind corners with my Airwire system. I can even control the train from inside the house, much to the surprise of guests.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim Carter (above) forgot to mention that he had to change a setting in his AirWire setup because he lost control when running behind some trees also. 

Right Jim? CV29 is a timeout setting in DCC to tell how long the loco will keep going if it loses signal. 

Point: It can happen, keep metal out of your tunnel if you can. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,
The required CV change was on a QSI in my brass K-4, not Airwire. The default settings in Airwire allow for the train to contimue unitl there is a signal from the TX changing it. The QSI default would have the unit automatically stop after a couple of seconds if there were a loss of signal, whether in a tunnel, around a hill, or behind a row of hedgeapple trees. This problem never showed up in my tunnel, but did show up sometimes when the train was behind my trees and once in the middle of a tunnel [ 8ft - no access port] at another layout. Fortunately, the K-4 would freewheel when pulled out with a coathanger. My arms are too short and I am too fat to crawl inside that tunnel.

JimC.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I knew it was the QSI working with your AirWire system... I did not add that level of detail so as not to add confusion. Just talking about some systems that need changes to keep going if they lose signal. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

The tunnel on my layout is about 7ft. long and runs under a waterfall. There's concrete, earth and granite rocks to block the signal as well. I only use RCS with my engines and I have no problems at all controlling them from anywhere on my layout. Of course, in my case TOC wired my locomotives so that the track actually becomes part of the antenae so the length and depth of the tunnel should never be a problem...at least not an r/c one!


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

A couple of basic thoughts... 
1. My R/C continues until it gets a change of command so what ever setting it was on going in is the one it comes out on. No problen no worries other than critter debris on the track or the occasional bunny bolting out in front of a train... 
2. If your R/C requires constant feedback, between loco and controller, you * might* have difficulties, see the recomendations above. 

3. All derailments happen just beyond arms length. This is a given! Access hatches are a good thing, just don't open it for the kids to drop rocks in.... learned that the hard way. 

John


----------



## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to make sure that there is no confusion, the AirWire and QSI receivers are different in several respects. On is default settings regarding loss of signal. The AirWire by default will continue to run even if you turn off the transmitter. It appears, from what I have heard on this forum, that the QSI default is to stop when signal is lost. This is not an AirWire issue. It is a decoder programming issue.


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

With RCS and Aristo's (older) te, the loco would just continue as it was until it sees a signal to do something else. Not sure about the revolution. Buy me one and I'll let you know


----------



## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Torby, the Revolution works the same way. Engine continues to run until it gets a signal to change. You can actually turn the transmitter off if you want to.

Ed


----------



## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

I've just got the most simple (read cheap) RC unit I guess. The 2 channel type used with RC cars and boats (my railbus has one from a toyboat boaught on a fleemarket for 2 euro, my dieselshunter has a better one from Robbe bought in a modelstore and used it for a 1:10 RC car and little RC boat). 
Just to sticks, nothing fancy. So no continuing running after losing or stopping the signal. I did not start with the tunnel yet also because I noticed stuttering running behind a tree, just like toddalin describes. And you must know this happens after a few meters allready (my garden is as big as a large posstamp...). 
Now I was thinking about the wiring with the track working as an antenna like Steve Stockham mentioned. How does this work? Do I simpy bring the antenna in contact with the track? And is it possible to use more trains when you use the track as an antenna? 

The other type RC systems decribed (that keeps running after stopping the signal) where can I find more info about that? AirWire, QSI? Are those brandnames or techniques? (sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm a rookie in RC land...). 

All derailments happen just beyond arms length Yes! I remember that from my old H0 scale layout; always there were you just can't reach it!! Thanks for the head up!


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Your might try G-Scale Graphics for simple low cost battery power, including R/C that will run with the Tx off.
G-Scale Graphics


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Paulus on 12 Sep 2009 01:53 PM 
I've just got the most simple (read cheap) RC unit I guess. The 2 channel type used with RC cars and boats (my railbus has one from a toyboat boaught on a fleemarket for 2 euro, my dieselshunter has a better one from Robbe bought in a modelstore and used it for a 1:10 RC car and little RC boat). 
Just to sticks, nothing fancy. So no continuing running after losing or stopping the signal. I did not start with the tunnel yet also because I noticed stuttering running behind a tree, just like toddalin describes. And you must know this happens after a few meters allready (my garden is as big as a large posstamp...). 
Now I was thinking about the wiring with the track working as an antenna like Steve Stockham mentioned. How does this work? Do I simpy bring the antenna in contact with the track? And is it possible to use more trains when you use the track as an antenna? 

The other type RC systems decribed (that keeps running after stopping the signal) where can I find more info about that? AirWire, QSI? Are those brandnames or techniques? (sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm a rookie in RC land...). 

All derailments happen just beyond arms length Yes! I remember that from my old H0 scale layout; always there were you just can't reach it!! Thanks for the head up!  

The old el cheapo AM stick type R/C's are very susceptible to RF interference if you are using a regular Digital Proportional (ie the speed is prportional to the stick position) ESC.
The locos can and will jerk quite noticeably during operation.
For effective smooth control using the low cost AM radios, you should use an ESC designed specifically for our Large Scale trains.

With the advent of 2.4 GHz stick radios that has largely been overcome.
However, if the ESC has NOT[/b] been specifically designed to ignore the failsafe function built into the 2.4 GHz radios, the loco will most likely respond to the loss of RF signal and slow down and stop.

My new *BELTROL R/C* ESC's are designed to ignore the Failsafe function of the radios and continue on their merry way in tunnels.
The regular RCS ESC's have always had that feature.

I would avoid using the track as an antenna unless the manufacturer of the ESC you are using, specifically says it is OK to do so.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The Aristo 75 mhz onboard has a programmable memory feature. 

You can remove a running train from the track and when placed on a powered track a month later it will take off and run as before. 

Very important to stop these engine with this setting before storing it away.


----------

