# plug and play decoder for LGB F7 AB and Unitah Mallet w/sound



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Which decoders do I need to plug and play in the LGB SP Black Widow F7 AB pair I have? Very loyal to LGB brandwise so prefer to use thier system or Massoth if necessary. I do have easy access to Watts Train Shop in Zionsville for parts. Just trying to price out options for power on mine and my friends layouts. He is running a LGB Unitah Mallet with sound. So easy of compatiablity with factory LGB sound is desired. Both of us will have limited motive power, probably just my F units for me and his Mallet and a Bachmann Connie on his layout.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You just revived an old thread to recommend Watts, so now you are not using them for yourself? 

What does Watts recommend?


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

That isnt very helpfull Greg, but to answer your question, Watts is pushing Aristo's wireless system, a $200 dewalt battery/charger system and onboard decoder to power the loco, or Massoths high end DCC system. With the dificulties of getting new MTS stuff lately, they are pushing those systems, both are way overkill for what my friend and I want to do. I am just looking for plug and play that will play nice with the factory LGB sound and control boards already in our main locomotives. We were looking at the 55106 MTSIII starter system with the addition of wireless ablity for him and eventualy the wireless for me as well. For now I can run with the cord. We plan to talk to Dave more when we go to Watts later this week again, was just seeking thoughts from those here that use the MTS system, heck might even find someone moving on to a different system and would sell thier MTS set up. Have a great day! Mike


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, neither was a post reviving a really old thread. 

But since you did say they were near by and you are asking for advice, I would always start with who is near you, since they may be your best "support" 

OK, so now you have some suggestions from the knowledgable LGB dealer that is not LGB at all. (In fact, my opinion is that his suggestions suck, one very low end and the other very high end) 

The factory LGB unit is MTS as you seem to know, which is a form of DCC. I don't know for sure if this version uses serial or parallel function commands. This is determined by the "age" of the decoder. 

You also seem to want to go battery. 

You have to kind of make up your mind now about battery vs. track especially if you want to work with your existing sound system. 

One option might be the latest AirWire system, with the G2 receiver/decoder... again depending on the decoder in your loco, it might be able to control your sound system just fine. 

The LGB MTS experts are on this forum, and I think the next step is to get the model number of the decoder in your locos. I realize you would most likely prefer to not disassemble the locos to find out. 

Hopefully someone will come on this thread to help you determine this parallel vs serial, because it will be the go/no go on the AirWire system.... otherwise, I'll come back "in" and try to help you figure that out. 

I'm recommending the AirWire because it is cost effective, can control many different sound cards, let's you start without sound and add it later, can control DCC sound cards, has nice compact controllers, and just works well. 

Greg


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

MTSIII is the parallel function version, which is the one that was recommemded by the reviews I have read on MTS so far. Much less glitching when calling up functions like blowing the horn. With shopping around online, new product prices, the cost between doing MTS vs NCE's 10 amp radio system, the MTS is only a hair more expensive once fitted with wireless ablities. I have experience with NCE's powercab in HO scale before selling my collection and moving up to G scale. It was a good system as well. I will continue to research the other systems ablity to "plug and play" nicely with LGB's onboard sound and electronics which is our major concern. We dont want to have to gut the units electrioncs and start from scratch. Like I said, we plan to pose more questions to Watts next time we are down there. They seem to really like Aristo's wireless system, with the 24vt dewalt battery in the loco or a trailing car, virtualty unlimited run time from the battery, one owner reported 35+ hours of run time on a USA GP9 before the battery was dead. But the battery is to tall to fit in the Bachmann Connie tender. They had a used Keithco locolink system but they needed to get it all gathered together before they could sell it. Like your suggestion, Airwire was the first system we were looking at, using G2 decoders since they dont have drop in's yet for LGB. I have an email into CVP Products on how well the G2 will work with the factory LGB sound boards. Mike


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Mike, 

I'm a bit confused - are you looking for a system which works with your existing locos which is what your last post suggests or for DCC decoders for your LGB F7 and the Mallet as you wrote in your first post....or both. 

It would help if you posted the actual LGB product IDs of the locos and the manufacturing date identifier which is the six-digit number on the "OK" sticker at the bottom of each loco so we know exactly what you actually have. 

MTS III as a CS will probably be the cheapest and should be available from eBay if you're a bit patient. Massoth is largely compatible with MTS but expensive and overkill for what I think you want. 
Another option to look at is the Piko DCC system which is essentially a lower cost Massoth system with less functionality. 

Knut


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Mike,



Your SP Black Widow F7-A and F7-B units are LGB models #24570 and #24582, respectively. These locomotives were introduced in 2002. The #24570 features an MTS Decoder Interface and is a 'serial' locomotive. The #24582 only requires a decoder to determine the running direction, thus triggering the appropriate forward/reverse starting horn blast signal.



MTS Decoder Interface locomotives are easily converted with LGB #55021 MTS Type II decoders. You will need 2x 55021 decoders for the LGB #24570 and 1x 55021 decoder for the LGB #24582. You will also need 1x LGB #55026 Decoder Interface Cable for the #24570. Conversion instructions can be found in the Spring 2001 (Vol. 12, No. 1) Telegram Magazine.



Massoth makes a eMOTION Type L decoder which has similar footprint and mounting style to the LGB 55021. For the F-7A, you can also replace 2x LGB #55021 decoders with a single Massoth eMOTION XL decoder. You will still need an LGB #55026 Decoder Interface Cable. You need to cut the end off the cable, strip the wires, make the appropriate connections, and program the decoder CVs per the Massoth manual.



There are multiple other options from third party decoder suppliers, but these solutions are a bit more complicated and appear to be outside the scope of your request. 



Best regards,

Bob



PS - A few month ago, I posted instructions for converting an LGB F7-A/B (with MTS Decoder Interface) on another forum. I've copied my response below for your reference:





*******

The LGB F-7A/B locomotives were constructed two different ways. The original F7-A had a MTS Decoder Interface. Later versions included an onboard decoder.



Here is a quick breakdown of the installation steps for the MTS Decoder Interface version:



F7-A (Requires 2x LGB 55021 decoders and 1x LGB 55026 Decoder Interface Cable)

1. Remove the locomotive body.



2. Flip the (6)-DIP switches from ON to OFF. (The switches are usually red with a grey housing.)



Here is a picture of a DIP switch from a single motorblock locomotive. (Since it is a single motorblock locomotive, it only has four switches.) 

http://tinyurl.com/85aawys



3. Two 55021 decoders are required for each F7-A unit. Each 55021 decoder has four wires attached to the decoder circuit board. To ease assembly, each wire has a female pin connector crimped and soldered to the loose end. The corresponding wire colors are green, yellow, brown and white. On the locomotive interface board, find the array of 8 male pins, arranged in 2x4 orientation. Plug the wires from each decoder into each column of four pins labeled, ws=white, gn=green, ge=yellow, br=brown. 



Use adhesive (marine grade) velcro strips, doublestick tape, or a plastic decoder mount (preferred) to secure the decoder to the locomotive chassis. (Massoth dealers sell the decoder mounts.) Make sure the decoder cannot touch anything conductive! Remember, a good mechanical mount is always better that something dependent upon adhesive. 



4. Using an LGB 55026 MTS Decoder Interface cable, connect the six colored wires as shown in the instructions. Plug the 2x3 plastic connector of the Decoder Interface cable into the socket. The socket is polarized to prevent accidental improper alignment. (The socket is usually blue.)



Here is a connection diagram from an old MTS Seminar presentation.

http://tinyurl.com/82rto3y


Here are the pin-outs...

Brown - V+

Red - Front Headlights

Orange - F1

Yellow - V+

Green - Ground

Blue - Rear Headlights



FYI - The LGB 55021 decoder pin-outs are shown on page #41 of the manual.



5. Test the locomotive in analog before replacing the body shell. Use low voltage to test.



F7-B - Note: a decoder is only required to provide the correct running direction to the sound unit. With a decoder, the starting horn is different for each direction. (Forward start = two short horn blasts. Reverse start = three short horn blasts.) If no decoder is installed in the B unit, I believe the two horn blast will sound, regardless of running direction.



1. Remove the body shell.



2. Regardless of whether a 55021 decoder is installed, flip DIP switch #1 from ON or OFF. (DIP switch discussion is found on page #10 of the F7-B manual.)



3. Plug in the green, yellow, brown, and white wires of the LGB 55021 decoder.



4. Mount the decoder.



5. Read the F7-A/B instructions regarding installation of the 2-wire (track power) and 4-wire (electronics) cables. (Connect B unit to each A unit with the 4-wire cables. Connect the B unit to each A unit with the 2-wire cables.)



The instructions also discuss the proper orientation of the B unit on the rails. (Rear wall of B unit faces back of train.)



The B unit instructions also discuss the sound amplifier switch settings for the B unit. The proper position is determined by whether the B unit is powering connected to one or two A units.



Programming F-7A/B

1. Other than setting an address, the 'front' F7-A does not require any special programming.



2. To program the address of the B Unit, the B unit must be connected by to a single A unit. (Use the 2-wire and 4-wire cables.) The A unit must be placed on the programming track. 



Place the A unit power control switch in position [2]. (Lights & Motor are ON, Sound is OFF.) 



Place the sound control switch on the B unit to position [0]. (This will turn off the sound. Sound can disturb programming.)



3. If you are running an ABA consist, the 'rear' F7-A unit must have its lighting and motor commands reversed. This is accomplished by programming the following CVs. (I assume you are running an MTS I or II Central Station.)



CV#29, NMRA Configuration CV. For MTS operation, program to a value of [5]. (This will reverse the operating direction of the motor.)



CV#52, Command for Front Headlight. Change value to [64]. (This will reverse the front headlight operating direction.)



CV#53, Command for Rear Headlight. Change value to [128]. (This will reverse the rear headlight operating direction. This locomotive does not have a rear headlight, but I am making the change nonetheless.)



You are ready to test!!!!



LGB F7-A Manual

http://tinyurl.com/72w6k2p


LGB F7-B Manual

http://tinyurl.com/74ltrgm



LGB 55021 Manual (Pin-out diagram found on Page #41)

http://tinyurl.com/89uxd2x



LGB 55026 Manual

http://tinyurl.com/7amscfw



Good luck!

*******


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would try rewiring and use the 55027 decoder. Of course this is not plug and play, but can work for those of us that do extensive engine mods. 
This is a 2 motor decoder and has more function capability for controlling lights such as adding in a mars or gyro . Voltage settings for pairs of outputs are on this board. 
Since the B unit has bell and whistle, a decoder is needed to activate these if you do not want to use track magnets. 

PS, I have the black widow set, but have not yet installed digital. When I do, my B unit already has a motor block and this pair has great pulling power with 3 motors total.


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Dan, 

Since the B unit has bell and whistle, a decoder is needed to activate these if you do not want to use track magnets. 

The A unit decoder triggers the sounds in the B unit. A separate decoder in the B unit is only required to provide running direction to the sound unit, enabling it to play the appropriate starting horn blast. 

The 55027 will certainly work, but the installation is incredibly messy for a novice. The steps are shown below: 
-Cut the LGB DCC Interface female connector from the end of the LGB 55027 wiring harness. Strip the ends of the wires for Track +, Track -, Motor +, Motor -, Front Headlights, Rear Headlights, Decoder + (a.k.a. V+), Decoder - (a.k.a. Ground), and F1 
-Solder splice pairs of Green/Yellow/Brown/White wires to each of the appropriate output wires from the decoder. Green and Yellow are Motor leads. Brown and White are Track leads. Placed heat shrink tubing of each of the four solder splices. 
-Solder LGB female metal pin connectors to the unconnected ends of each of the 4x2=8 Green, Yellow, Brown, and White wires. 
-Connect the eight Green, Yellow, Brown, and White wires to the A unit Decoder Interface Board. (Plug the female metal pin connector to the corresponding male pins.) 
-Cut the LGB female metal pin connectors from the end of the LGB 55026 Decoder Interface Cable. 
-Solder splice the decoder's Front Headlight, Rear Headlight, Decoder + (a.k.a. V+), Decoder - (a.k.a. Ground), and F1 wires to the appropriate 55026 wire. (Decoder + is connected twice.) Cover the joints with heat shrink tubing. 
-Plug the 2x3 connector on the end of the LGB 55026 Decoder Interface Cable into the A unit's Decoder Interface Board. 
-Make the appropriate CV changes to the 55027 decoder for serial pulse chain generation. 

Again, for the novice, this will be a difficult installation. For what it's worth, I've spoken to several advanced/professional installers who have struggled with this specific installation, namely digitalizing an LGB dual motor, MTS Decoder Interface locomotive through the installation of an LGB 55027 decoder. The LGB 55027 instructions are purposefully vague with regard to use of the 55027 decoder with MTS Decoder Interface locomotives, as they want users to perform the easier installation (2x LGB 55021 decoders). 

If I had to suggest a dual motor, serial pulse chain compatible decoder for this particular installation, I would stick with the Massoth eMOTION XL. Massoth supplies the required green, yellow, brown, white wires pre-soldered with LGB female pin connectors. Installation still requires a 2x3 MTS Decoder Interface cable to be connected via decoder screw terminals. However, all of the required MTS Decoder Interface terminals are conveniently located on one edge of the decoder. The user manual includes installation instructions for LGB locomotives with an MTS Decoder Interface. The eMOTION XL decoders can also be programmed with MTS II. 

For the novice, you can't beat the simplicity of the 2x 55021 installation. It will take longer to disassemble and reassemble the locomotive than it will take to make the electrical conversion. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

That exactly what I wanted to know, which decoders I needed for the A unit, not planning to put one in the B unit right away, eventualy, but not yet. I have been watching for the MTS III starter set, plus the power transformer on both ebay and other mail order places that might have one. It will be nice to be able to blow the horn when I want to. I plan to install a seperate Mars light power unit running off the exhisting 5volt power supply to the front lights. Already converted the lower light to a "golden glow" style single beam and have a reflector in the upper for an early style Mars light. Does the Unitah Mallet also need 2 of those decoders since its dual motored? Mike


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If one has the MTS II with parallel upgrade, is it the same as MTS III or just almost the same? 

I ask as I do have the MTS II with the P from the factory for sale. I assume Bob would know the answer, and this can be good info for all.


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Dan, 

If one has the MTS II with parallel upgrade, is it the same as MTS III or just almost the same? 


No, they are not the same. The most significant difference is the MTS III Central Station is a dual bus central station, offering the standard MTS bus and the Massoth bus. As a result, the MTS III can use the Massoth Navigator. (The Navigator offers limited functionality with MTS III versus its operation in conjunction with a DIMAX central station.) 

The MTS III also has a flash EEPROM for firmware upgrades. (Currently, these upgrades are only available via the factory. LGB has never offered the update device for sale and has never made downloadable firmware upgrades available via their website.) 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Mike, 

I plan to install a seperate Mars light power unit running off the exhisting 5volt power supply to the front lights. Already converted the lower light to a "golden glow" style single beam and have a reflector in the upper for an early style Mars light. 

A Zimo MX-695KN will offer MTS serial compatibility and a Mars light output. (The decoder software produces the Mars light effect.) This decoder can control two LGB motorblocks. You will also need the MX69LGBK Decoder Interface Cable. (This cable was previously the MX65LGBK.) 


Does the Unitah Mallet also need 2 of those decoders since its dual motored? 

I assume your friend has an LGB 20882 Uintah Mallet with factory digital sound. If so, this decoder has an MTS Decoder Interface. You will need 2x LGB 55021 decoders and 1x LGB 55026 Decoder Interface Cable. You can also use the eMOTION XL with LGB 55026, as discussed earlier, or the Zimo MX695KN with MX69LGBK, as discussed above. (The Zimo MX695KN will require some soldering and you will need to find a source for the LGB female metal pin connectors.) 

Good luck. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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