# MTH S.F. Yellow Warbonnets Arrive!!



## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

MTH Santa Fe Yellow Warbonnets with Protosound 2!!
Nice job as usual MTH!!
These are the second locomotive shipment that I have received that have the new 2mb chip for sound and the sound is fanastic, esp. the horn.
Sorry that I don't have a video to post but maybe in the near future!


----------



## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Looks like I'm the first to say I'm jealous. Very nice looking, and I can't wait to hear them under load with DCS. Joe


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Chuck, loco look cool as ****, check out the detail on the trucks, even has a speedo cable...








Nick...


----------



## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks to Raymond I have a little video to show about them though it's in Quicktime as that's what format my cheap camera records in...









www.rayman4449.dynip.com/MTH-F7-010109.mov


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Always loved the yellow and bluebonnets. Definitely a different color scheme...I can remember seeing an archive video somewhere (in color) of a 5-up of F units with a yellowbonnet on the front. 

I must say I am impressed with MTH's quality in Ga1, it is on par with the reigning champs in 1:29, but still durable enough to be run and not worry about breaking something.


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice! It really surprises me they come out with some of these more unique paint scheme, but I think it's really great.

Looks like she handles like a dream... can stop it on a dime. 

How quiet are the MTH diesel motorblocks? Are the quiet like the USA Trains ones? Quieter/louder? The look perfectly smooth at the slower speeds.

Does this engine come with protocouplers that you can trigger open with the remote?


Raymond


----------



## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan, I agree with you about being rugged enough to run outdoors!!

Raymond, You know when the motorblocks are opened up they look just a USA block...right down to having the brass rods that direct power!

Yep they have the operatng remote controlled Proto-Couplers but only one is installed on the trailing A unit. A scale non-functiong knuckle kuppler, ooops I mean coupler is installed on the leading A unit.

I forgot to mention that the S.F's are a F-7 and have a headlight & a operating mars light that goes bright & dim..not that goofy 2 bulb thing that another mfg. decided to put on their S.F. E units.

They also have green markers on the lead A and red on the trailing A, Proto-Smoke in each A unit, lighted interiors which are directional, engineer & fireman figures and mounting pads for Kadee couplers. 

I also ordered another B unit from our buddy Jim last week as I really like the looks of a ABBA consist!!


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

ABBA will be sweet.









So I guess they are using plastic gears then. (All their steamers have all metal gears.)


Raymond


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

They sure look great. 
I just wish MTH had gone ahead and made their range available without the DCS system for those that want to use something else. 
They did announce that they were going to a couple of years ago, then cancelled. What a pity.


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

It's real easy to put something else in just like any other loco. For battery users there are two main power wires to tap/pull just like all the other mfgs and if you want your own sound just cut the wires from the speaker and add your own sound card. If you are using track power and just want your own control board, just tap those same two power wires. 

Unfortunately, regardless what any manufacturer does there will be people that want something else. 


Raymond


----------



## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony, If you ever remove the MTH PS2 electronics I'm sure that a few folks on here would be willing to take them off your hands for a few $$$...


----------



## Mark Thomas (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd love to see a photo of the USA Trains F units next to the MTH F units.....just for a size comparision.


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Wish I had some pictures to share. If I can come up with any I'll post them. Maybe someone else has snapped a few? 

Raymond


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

On the front coupler, do you think you try to replace it with a 1 gauge kadee? 


Raymond


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 01/04/2009 8:11 AM
Tony, If you ever remove the MTH PS2 electronics I'm sure that a few folks on here would be willing to take them off your hands for a few $$$...










Chuck,
Conversely, if someone who wants just the MTH PS2 electronics removed said electronics from the MTH locos and offered the locos sans electronics, I am sure there are folks here willing to take the locos for a few $$$...


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ummm. Ok. Well actually no need to strip down an engine for just the electronics as you can order the PS2 electronic kits directly from MTH or an authorized dealer and it includes all the incandescent and LED lights you need. 

Brings up a good point as everyone may not be aware of that. 


Raymond


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

See Raymond, there is often a simple answer to even the most complex questions. 

I still would prefer to buy MTH "WITHOUT" the MTH electronics. MTH advertised that they planned doing so, but then went back on it. Pity. 
I know of lots of LS'ers who would then buy MTH.


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Understood Tony and sometimes not.

I recall we've discussed this before in other threads and as was said before, no one said what you want is wrong it's just unfortunately not the way it worked out. I would prefer that they DID offer them WITHOUT the electronics for folks like yourself, but MTH decided that it wasn't worth the extra cost and financial risk to double the inventory cost of their what was brand new engine product lines. So as alway, it comes down to a choice and how badly you want the engines they produce running on your layout. You've chosen to not own any of their engines solely because they have preinstalled a sound and control board. There is nothing wrong with that and is your right and choice and MTH has heard you by not getting your $. 


Raymond


----------



## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 01/03/2009 8:26 PM
ABBA will be sweet.









So I guess they are using plastic gears then. (All their steamers have all metal gears.)


Raymond



Nope, They're all metal...


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/04/2009 3:22 PM
See Raymond, there is often a simple answer to even the most complex questions. 

I still would prefer to buy MTH "WITHOUT" the MTH electronics. MTH advertised that they planned doing so, but then went back on it. Pity. 
I know of lots of LS'ers who would then buy MTH.


I beleive MTH decided to use there system because they felt it was the best system out there for there product, and as they use it in all there other scales i think it was a no brainer... Mth must have made the rite desission because most of what they make sells out pritty quick, so im sure there are plenty of well satified mth customers i know im sold on there command control sound and smoke system that why i pay to have my 1/29th locos converted to this system 2nd to none in my opion... even though i dont own any of there engines only because there 1/32 th scale and i do 1/29th but i bet you that the other manufactures would love to sell out of there engines as QUICK AS MTH does. i do believe that there next upgrade to the board will allow DCC users to use dcs so maybe sometime in the future if MTH deems battery power worthy of there product im sure they will include some type of plug to hook up a battery car... who knows what the future will bring...








Nick


----------



## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Raymond, 

One of the turn offs of MTH 1 gauge for me has been their dreadful website. Looks outdated, lack of info and seems like everyhting they put up (ie roadnames, etc) are either hard to find or never produced. I hear (I have not seen firsthand) that MTH goes through great trouble to make excellent loco's and then the rolling stock looks like O gauge toy stuff. I would love to see a sdie by comparison of a MTH dash 8 to an Aristo Dash9 or aMTH F unit to a USAT F unit. Even dealers dont seem to put a whole lot into their promotion of MTH. What gives? I would probably buy some MTH 1 gauge even if just for the sheer novelty of it. Still after all this, I am drawn to the mystique of MTH one gauge.


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I know there 1st run box cars and flat cars were a little off, but i do own 6 hopper and tanks cars and there as nicely detailed if not better than USA and im A big USA fan so i dont know who told you that butyou might see them up close before you comment that they look o scalish, and also dont beleive everything you hear, cause some have there own agendas.... seeing is believing..
Nick


----------



## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Nick 

Certainly understood which is why I stated I had heard it and not seen it with my own eyes. Could you post some pictures of MTH versus USAT stuff? Then I could see....


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Sure the next time im down in storage i will get some photos for ya also here a video with them running in a train...
Nick


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Truthman,

This is actually a complaint I have of all the mfgs. They (like USA trains) go through the great expense of producing say a museum like quality piece like the Big Boy then have one tiny photo of it on their page. Makes no sense at all. You can't find any additional real information at a dealer unless they actually stock the item which many can't afford to do. So I don't know what gives either. It is a frustration I shared too especially when I was just getting started. None of them seem eager to change so the only thing we can do is band together and help each other out. That's one reason why I post tons of photos when I get something new so folks can see what every inch looks like. It's my way of doing my part. 

As far as looking outdated, USATs is pretty basic too. Now if the problem is it's not as intuitive like click "locomotives" then get a quick list, well MTH has produced a ton more product in other scales so they can't just neatly fit everything on one page like say USA does. If you do a search on MTH's website on' all steam locomotives' you will get close to 100 pages of engines. As far as lack of in depth information on their control system as well, I agree totally and that is why I created a set of overview videos to demo it. Actually I just went out to Aristocraft's website and they just overhauled their product catalog. They did a GREAT job of detailing out the piece parts and showing pictures of their control system and how it works. For the longest time this was not the case.

Not sure what you mean by roadnames never produced. Do you mean stick a roadname on an engine that the road originally didn't have?

Not sure that I agree that dealers promote MTH less than the other makers. I mean in G-scale MTH is still relatively a new commer so maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe it's because not every existing G scale dealer is an authorized MTH reseller.

On the rolling stock, some of their original items showed having light colored wheels which looked toyish and had some items that were whimsical stuff like a Pittsburg Steelers box car. They are following their O guage line rollout to some degree whether you agree ith wall the items or not. On the photos, MTH is using photos the had of their old (sometimes outdated) O guage stuff because they don't have production samples to show you yet. Just like USA Trains did with their Big Boy. They initially posted a picture of someone elses HO scale Big Boy. Now, I have no use for an exploding boxcar with a helicopter on top just like I have no use for an Aristocraft Eggliner. Just because aristo makes a silly little eggliner doesn't mean their entire line is crap.(cause it's not) Same with MTH. MTH does seem to have some nice rolling stock. 

On those comparison photos, I wish I had some to give you. I do have a few comparison and misc photos on my site of MTH 1:32 stuff and 1:29. 

http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/gardenrr_misc.htm 

I do own an Aristo box car and MTH box car that I haven't posted. I also have a lot of photos the engines and cars I own. I do have comparison photos of the USA and MTH Big Boys.

If you want side by sides of anything I have please let me know and I'll post them for you.


Raymond


----------



## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Hi raymond, 

Im glad you percieved my comments as they were meant. Not anything personal. You just seem to know the most about MTH here and that's why I went directly to you for your comments. What i meant regarding roadnames never produced, (again I am going on what some DEALERS tell me, not just people who don't have a clue), is like the dash 8 in providence and Worcester. i know I might be splittiing hairs over one roadname, but it goes back to info i get from DEALERS. The local dealer I have in town does not specialize in trains and have everything marked HIGHER than MSRP and does not carry a large selection of G items and doesn't carry MTH 1:32 at all. And they really don't have a clue about what they are selling anyway so I have to rely on phone calls to the major dealers. I have never seen an MTH 1:32 anything in person. I am a fan of USAT but a fan of Aristo's pnp capability so I mostly buy Aristo motive power but USAT rolling stock. Now, Aristo has basically priced themselves too high for me to consider them. USAT is cheaper now so I will probably purchase USAT motive power now and deal with sound, etc later. Now, if MTH holds prices pretty close I think they might be the best buy expecially with all the features they come loaded with which makes me reconsider them for purchases. However, I wanted to go battery power and radio control. Can you do that with MTH?


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Truthman,

You bet and no worries. " src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/smile.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />

Ok I see what you mean on the dash-8.... you know I don't know. There's no telling what drove them to make one as I'm not even sure I've even ever heard of that roadname. lol Maybe because they know the area that RR served had/has a dense population and thus a higher proportionate number of afficianados? Based on what I'm seeing from their One Gauge offerings and what I know of the O gauge, I would say they are picking roadnames and engines that they know have sold in O. I mean even the Yellow warbonnet would seem to have a lesser following than the famous red colored one, but maybe they know it will sell well overall. They've been seemingly willing to take the plunge on a wider variety of things than other mfgs in G. (either for good or bad) 

Yeah and the more I think on it, I can see how it would seem that way too as I think since they are new they've relied on and expected their existing dealer network to provide sales and service. So except for maybe the bigger retailers online it wouldn't surprise me if a number of smaller local shops just can't afford to take on the additional inventory, cost and risk of stocking another whole line. 

If you want to see what MTH has offered up for One gauge, try this direct link http://www.mthtrains.com/catalog/pdf.asp or go to http://www.mth-railking.com/ and highlight catalog to the left then select catalog PDF. That will take you to all the available catalogs for each product line and year. 

I have some pics of the MTH Dash-8 on my misc photos page. Not sure if that would help any. Because you are into 1:29 as far as you are, you're right to be cautious because of the size difference. 

To me, the real value of the MTH line is with their provided electronics control and sound. You can run an MTH engine under battery power or under battery power with the DCS control (if you stuff a TIU in a box car). But if you don't use the TIU and use the provided wireless remote (TIU and wireless remote costs about $250) then you won't be able to blow the whistle or sound the bell or trigger the other manually activated sound effects. So that really kinda dulls the benefits of the provided electronics in the engine. So you would then be faced with either trying the DCS control system for the $250 to get the benefit or adding your own sound card and battery control which definitely increases the cost to the point where you might have probably just gone with an Aristo or USA diesel to begin with. (Of course their steam line is still a good value even with the electronics as you can't get a Largescale big boy for $1000 from anyone else.) So it's up to you on which way you go. If would like more information or a demo of the DCS system I have a overview video series you can check out on my website. It's pretty crude so don't laugh. ; ) 

Let me know if you need anything else.


Raymond


----------



## fildowns (May 17, 2008)

yup there is a growing band of battery-powered DCS-ers. We hope to soon be in double figures haha!

anyway....where were we? Oh yeah, yellow warbonnets....sharp!! I just got no room for one of everything dammit!


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 01/04/2009 6:21 PM
Posted By Rayman4449 on 01/03/2009 8:26 PM
ABBA will be sweet.









So I guess they are using plastic gears then. (All their steamers have all metal gears.)


Raymond



Nope, They're all metal...




















Wowsers that's great. There aren't many LS diesels out there like that. Should last forever. No split gears ever. So how are they insulating between the two rails but still picking up power?


Raymond


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By fildowns on 01/05/2009 2:02 PM
yup there is a growing band of battery-powered DCS-ers. We hope to soon be in double figures haha!

anyway....where were we? Oh yeah, yellow warbonnets....sharp!! I just got no room for one of everything dammit!



LOL It's getting there thanks to folks like yourself who have laid the foundation to show it can be done. 

Me either, I'm running out of room and $$! Triplex news should be any day now... 


Raymond


----------



## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, Yellow Bonnets for G gauge









I know most would probably disagree, but I have always like the super rare passenger yellowbonnet a lot more then the traditional warbonnet in red. I mean "passenger" by silver trucks and nose herald without nose stripe (#315 and #304)...just like MTH's version. The sound is really nice too, thanks for the video clip. I did notice that the horn doesn't seem match what is on the model. The multi chime horn sound is correct for a late era Santa Fe F unit (which the Yellow Bonnets were), but the model has single chimers. Just my stupid nit picking, great looking set. 

Is the caboose dark blue, like the traditional freight color? I don't think there ever were any actually painted like that, but it sure looks interesting and goes well with the yellowbonnets.

I have passenger yellowbonnet F7 #304L on the HO layout:


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Is that your layout there? Really nice picture and good looking layout.  Nice use of the narrow depth of field to bring the engine out more in the photo.

What does a multi-chimer version of the F unit horn look like? I'm not sure I can picture what it looks like.


Raymond


----------



## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep that's our HO layout. Here's a link to more photos:

HO Layout 

The multichime horn on Santa Fe F units looks like this:


Photo Link 1

Photo Link 2


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Matt and very nice on the layout. Takes a lot of patience to get the detail done up that nice. 


Raymond


----------



## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, Sure is a nice layout..lot's of work went into that!

I always liked the yellow bonnets and the blue/yellow freight paint schemes..the caboose is kinda funky but I also have a MTH 6 car SF silver ribbed passenger set to go with these F7's. 

That multi chime horn isn't prototypical for this F7 but it sure does sound nice..









My other B unit is on it's way...hmmm...ABBA consist...









Raymond, Power is picked up by the wheels which are insulated and slider shoes so each A unit has 4 power pickups per side.


----------



## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

I just wanted to add that my MTH diesels are now 5+ years old with no problems. Original tires (never liked the idea), pull like a champ, original battery, smoke is great. When they add DCC to their electronics, I believe they will pick up some new customers that are on the fence.
Some of their rolling stock needs detailing if desired, and most of the newer stuff looks much better. I don't know if an older reefer with a current beer label is for everyone. I do know they look really sharp in person. I've noticed all train makers posting pictures from cartoon drawings to different scaled for different reasons. When I first lookedmy dealers did not carry the MTH. Now more dealers are and seeing them in person helps. I've got pictures of my G gauge in the indoor posts under my railroad. I've also posted in the photography post under my yard shot. Joe


----------



## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

I forgot to mention the inside of the dash eight trucks have metal gears also, similar setup to the pictured f series. Good power pickups and bearings. Joe


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Gents, 

It would appear that this thread is filled with a lot of MTH / DCS knowledge and can I ask a question(s)? - 

Threads and forums say that to clear up "noise" on a DCS system, one option is to install light bulbs on the tracks. Sooo... From an asthetics perspective would "street lamps" work given that the track power is constant for DCS? 

And I am some what dumb in understanding the websites .... DCS by MTH can run on DC or AC transformers... However features are limited on DC? Sooo.... If I invest would it be best to buy an AC transformer and ideally buy a retro PS2/3 kit for my trustworthy LGB starter loco? 

Regards, 

Gavin (aka GG)


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Gavin,

Sure, ask away.

Street lamps would work great I would think. The addition of lights to improve the signal strength will be trial and error. You will add lights and they will help up to a point... will flat line as far as level of improvement then start to negatively effect the signal. ( at least with Stainless steel track.) Lights at the layout level is something I would do to put the finishing touches on the deployment, maybe not something to do initially. When you are first getting started, just make sure you have one lamp on each TIU output terminal and that will go a long ways to getting you started. You can do fine tuning later. Do check track tests around the layout and see if/where you have any issues. Just an FYI that from what I've heard, if you use brass track you usually have perfect track signal everywhere. Only when you go stainless do you seem to have any challenges.

DCS can run under straight analog AC or DC power. It can also run under DCS Command Control (with the remote) under either AC or DC power. Under both in both situations they function the same. HOWEVER, the difference comes in when you try to run your engines under straight analog power with no TIU or remote.... Some AC power supplies come with a whistle and bell button that you can push that will trigger those sound effects. If you run the engine under analog DC power you won't have those bottons (as no one makes a DC power supply that I'm aware of with a bell and whistle button). So if you plan to use the wireless remote, I would just get a good quality DC power supply like a Bridgewerks and you are good to go. You will be able to use all the functions and features with it... and since you got a DC power supply you could use it with all your other non-DCS largescale engine like your LGB starter set.


Raymond


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Ray, 

Good feedback and yes, why not use track power to feed the aux lights of the "town"? Or whatever. I think power consumption is key here in determining what size of DC supply to buy. (note that I mentioned DC... am I correct? ) 

Buy a retro kit for my famous LGB starter loco and I'm in business yes? (hope it fits and who do I get to do the retro? Probably do it myself as it already has a sound tender with reed capability for bell and whistle. This would work well in the inner circle ) 

If so, what a plan.. fumble along and make my mistakes. part of the hobby. 

Brass track is in.... 

Gavin (aka GG)


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

On the LGB starter loco, ease of install will depend on whether the motor/drivetrain has a flywheel there or not. If it does, then install shouldn't be too bad. If it doesn't, you will have to figure out a way to add one which is where it can get tricky. There is actually no guarantee that you could retrofit a flywheel on there if it doesn't have one. You probably can but can't be for sure unless you or someone like myself looks at it. 

If you didn't or couldn't do the retro fit I would be someone who could. I'm not sure there is anyone else doing these DCS installs in Largescale for others other than myself. 


Raymond


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I will need to pop open the engine and look for a big wheel...


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I am gearing up to DCS and by default MTH... 

Forum concenus is that DCC is the equal to "DOS" in the computer world. 

My research and view is that DCS is the equal to "Windows" in the computer world. 

As for which one is best... well the better part of us work our computers in a "Solo Microsoft" world... oops....is this proprietiary stuff here???? 

And LGB with "MTS" did go belly up however is supported (that is MTS) after the fact yes??? 

We need to move forward. DCS is a part of the process, MTS as well. DCC will never go away and will continue to evolve and I really do belive that DCC is fantasic as it applies to open architecture type of people. This protocol excites this segment of the g-scale train market I say. I see the excitement on the forums. 

We have battery buffs, we have DCC buffs and we have those who wish "plug'n play" and with a need to focus on landscaping and the "garden" aspect... This with a great historical train running through it with great sound, true to the ERA... 

I am not the techno-savvy type of lad. I want Plug'n play with options to advance play as required. 

Room for all. What a great hobby. 

gg


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not trying to start an argument, but MTH is not plug and play unless you buy ONLY MTH locos with the DCS system in them already. 

By the way DCC has many more functions than DCS, so I would say your analogy to DOS and Windows flawed. 

You might say DCC is windows, and MTH is a Mac, very good analogy if I say so myself. 

DCC can do about anything, but tons of configurations, MTH does fewer things, but more easily, and has some cool unique features already built in, like quillable whistle. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

And again, it all comes down to what you are looking at. There are many features DCS has that DCC doesn't and things DCC can be configured to do like configuring output ports that you can't with DCS. DCS can provide instant track voltage readings, lifetime and trip odometer and hour used clock for instance, record an operating session including thrown switches at certain times and the like and is all done with the remote. But, DCC can be setup to be controlled via a PC, something you can't do with DCS among other things and am sure you can name other things too. So it depends on what you are looking at as far as features. 

I took his perspective to be on the required configuration and how you set it up settings wise and on that I think is analogy is correct. I don't think it was intended to mean DCC was a backwards system. 

I like his end point, we have a great host of options out there to choose from like DCC and DCS. 


Raymond


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Valid points, both of you 

Basically we all agree and I like the windows and Mac analogy. Much more appropriate and contemporary. 

Both systems serve the needs of the user. 

gg


----------

