# AMS v Spectrum guidance and thoughts please



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Having recently acquired a Bmann Spectrum C19, and feeling the need to honor its scale and detail with something other than my vast array of Red Box stock, could someone answer some questions for me, as I have been entirely Red Box.

Between AMS/ ACCUCRAFT and Bachmna Spectrum plastic freight stock offerings

1 which brand rolls and runs better?
2 which brand, with its high detail, is more resistant to handling mishaps?
3 are the brands comparable in terms of overall detail and size?
4 for each brand, what is the price range that I should expect for freight cars, new and lightly used.
I wish to acquire a DRGW box, flat and gondola, and an AMS DRGW green coach. Actually i have seen a Pagosa Springs car, which I would most like, but think that was a customized version. 

I have acquired a long caboose, bmann spectrum.
I would appreciate any thoughts and comments on the AMS short hack.
I would also appreciate comments and guidance on pros and cons generally of each brand.

I would appreciate and reasonable sources for these items, as they seem to past the general market offering.

Being a bear of little brain, and used to LGB and its resistance to loss of detail (due in part to lack there of) and ability to be run, put away, run, etc. I am looking to buy the brand which runs well, ie not too finicky about track and which will not become shabby with care and useage.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve

I have cars from both manufacturers. The only car with a significant advantage, in my mind, is the long caboose. Bachmann has interior detail and the Accucraft does not. One other difference is the couplers. The Accucraft couplers are correct for 1:20.3, while the Bachmann couplers are significantly larger that Accucraft's.

I have not had any problems with either manufacturers durability. They both seem to hold up well. 

My recommendation would be to buy either when, availability, price, and car style is suitable. 

As to the Accucraft short caboose, they have one in both plastic and metal. I have both and like the long caboose are well made and have fine external detail, no interior. I think that the wood siding looks a little crisper and better defined on the plastic caboose. This is no big deal when the train is running, 10' rule, but when handling it, up close, it is noticeable.

Chuck


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Steve, you partly answered your own question. If you want DRGW box, flat and gondola, you need to get DRGW box, flat and gondola. They are made by AMS. If you need AMS D&RGW coach, you need to get one too;-). Apart from that, you will not regret getting Bachmann Spectrum caboose and tank cars. Other cars are not prototypical for D&RGW so do not get any. I had mixed experience with Bachmann regardng quality, and consistently good experience with AMS. But the problems I had were only with box cars of Murphy type (with metal parts falling apart). The tank cars and cabooses which are all great addition to D&RGW fleet did not have any problems. Detail is comparable, the couplers work together more or less. Overall, both brands make great products. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

thanks guys
the search shall begin....
can you give me an expected price range ,,,,100 per car?
150-200 coach?

zubi, not being too attentive, I didn't even realize the bachman werent correct, I actually thought that the gon was accurate---too long among the red boxes........luck to get the right color and logo, you know.LOL


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The Bachmann cars are accurate models of their respective prototypes. "Correct" becomes a matter of whether you wish to stick solely to modeling a prototypical D&RGW consist behind the C-19 or not. Bachmann (much to their credit, in my opinion) has not limited their models to those which ran on the D&RGW. Modeling an eastern narrow gauge line as I do, the variety in rolling stock is a blessing. 

I run a mixture of both manufacturers' cars, and have found no troubles with either. The details on the Bachmann cars (journal lids and stirrup steps especially) have a tendency to get caught in the groundcover, so you may want to put a drop of glue on those to keep them in place. The wheels on both are very good. (Bachmann's "Spectrum" wheels are a step up from their "Big Hauler" wheels.) 

As has been stated above, the couplers on the Bachmann cars look a bit clunky. Fortunately Bachmann saw fit to use a coupler draft gear box that is identical to a standard Kadee #830 coupler box, so you can drop out the Bachmann coupler and replace it with a Kadee with only a screwdriver. Kadee also makes a simple coupler head that is a direct screw-on replacement to Bachmann's draft gear if you want to go that route. (#916)

In terms of prices, expect to pay $100 - $150 or so for the freight cars. The flat cars can sometimes be found for less. AMS's passenger cars usually go for between $225 - $275 or so. It's been a while since I priced them. 

One thing - on the AMS passenger cars and cabooses; the electrical pick-ups are tantamount to working brakes. I would highly recommend converting the lighting in those cars to battery power and pulling the pick-ups off the trucks. 

Later,

K


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Kevin. I just bend back the brass wipes that are used for electrical pickups on the AMS cars. On the Bachmann cars I try to remember to glue down the journal cover when I get a new car. Unfortunately, I forget some of the time, so some of my cars have missing covers on some journals.

I just checked my records an Kevin's prices are in line with what I paid.

Chuck


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

The SJR&P has a lot of each brand. One caution. While the wheels sets on the recent Accrucraft models are excellent, the early ones are not so good and we end up replacing them.

We recently purchased new in box cars from very old stock at a fantastic price. All of the wheel sets were from some of the earliest runs.

Stan


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

stevedenver said:


> zubi, not being too attentive, I didn't even realize the bachman werent correct, I actually thought that the gon was accurate---too long among the red boxes........luck to get the right color and logo, you know.LOL


Steve, Red Boxes are fun too, I am still a sworn red box fan, have been for three decades now and I am not going to give up. I just answered your question;-)... Ultimately, it is up to you what you want to run. Generally, AMS are more sturdy than Bachmann, but if your locomotive is Bachmann, then you must know how to handle delicate parts. Short AMS cabooses were mentioned in this thread, they are fine, but the long Bachmann cabooses are just great. From AMS you can even get a MOW car in plastic, but that is little use as there are not many other MOW cars in plastic (exactly none to the best of my knowledge). There is a lot of choice in AMS flat, gondola and box cars regarding numbers. There are a few tank car numbers and varieties (narrow frame and frameless) GRAMPS and UTLX. Finally, I even got myself a pair of D&RGW painted hoppers! Red Box spirit never dies;-)... And we all know that they do have some EBT hoppers on Cumbres & Toltec line now... Enjoy whatever you find - look for good sellers and good prices. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan

A little clarification on the wheels would help. I haven't had any problems, that I know of. Your layout is much longer than mine. What should I be looking for?

Chuck


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

PS Steve, do not forget AMS stock cars, they are D&RGW prototypes and wonderful models in several versions! Zubi


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

chuck n said:


> Stan
> 
> A little clarification on the wheels would help. I haven't had any problems, that I know of. Your layout is much longer than mine. What should I be looking for?
> 
> Chuck


Chuck

AMS has made a lot of improvements over the years.

The early trucks did not have the L brackets to keep the side frames from bending in. If you get one of these AMS will provide the L bracket parts for free.

They have also improved their wheels a lot over the years. The early ones are very prototypical with little flange and almost no filet. Unless you track is perfect they derail a lot. The new ones have a very large filet and work well.

Over time we have replaced all the old wheels on our AMS cars but still have several new ones to do before they go out on the railroad.

The reason we likely have so many of the old cars is that we wait for the deals and get the cars for as little as possible. Most often these end up to be very old stock. The last set we purchased did not even have the L brackets and had never been out of the box.

When you purchase used on the internet it is hard to tell which wheels the car has.

Stan


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Stan.

I had forgotten about that problem and I had actually repaired some with the "L" bracket.

Chuck


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

ill try to remember about the L bracket, should I ever find any....

any other way, such as box design, to distinguish the old from the new, bad from the good AMS?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve

As I remember, NOW, the bottoms of the side frames of the truck cant inward. This put added friction on the journals and the cars wouldn't roll. The "L" bracket could be added to the bolster to make the side frame verticle. If a car doesn't roll easily, that is what to look for. It is a very easy fix.

Chuck


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

easy to remember-thanks chuck!


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

You can get the little pieces of angle brass from Accucraft, just ask for them. To mount them you remove the screw holding the side frames to the bolster. Nest you put the little L on the screw. Now just screw the truck back together. It is a very easy fix.

I had some braces made of plastic that would insert below the bolster. They needed to be painted but just snapped in and required no dis-assembly or modification of the Accucraft trucks.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well tuesday my bmann royal gorge long caboose arrived.
simply, jaw dropping. large, to say the least, detail is museum quality.

a joy to look at, and
it looked great with my lgb davenport.

i had no idea of how much bigger Fscale is. Close...kinda...but really not.

got my sound climax and flying grande C19 too yesterday. rain prohibits running.
they too are superb.

still very delicate to handle. but oh the detail. and they run beautifully.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Steve, you have been warned;-)! Yes, the caboose is the best of them all... Although the AMS coaches may come close - I do not have any of these. I wish Bachmann would make more cabooses... and more quality rolling stock. Still, if you get some B-mann tank cars, and AMS box cars, gondolas, flat and stock cars you will have a very prototypical D&RGW consist. For the Climax, you might want to get some Bachmann gondolas box ęand flat cars, they will look good behind a logging engine, as they do not have this typical D&RGW look. But there is no easy caboose choice here maybe unpainted short AMS will do the trick. Enjoy!! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Steve, don't worry. The Bachmann and AMS boxes are also red, so your reputation's safe.  (Can't say the same for your bank account, though. The bigger stuff is quite addictive!)

Coincidentally, I just picked up an LGB Davenport to add to my roster. I haven't had a chance to measure the prototype out at the museum yet, but when comparing the model's dimensions to a similar-sized Plymouth that the White Pass ran, it scales out very well for 1:20.3. 

In terms of a caboose for the Climax, you might consider the AMS shortie caboose. While definitely accurate for the D&RGW caboose, it's proportions are also classic enough to look pretty generic. I think I cut the cupola on mine down about 1/4" or so, but that's the only modification I made.










For a logging caboose, I might consider removing the cupola altogether. That would have a unique look to it for sure. 

Later,

K


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well, im taking a breather until the NGRR convention.....

and im taking a breatehr too due to the monumental rain we have had here in Denver the past days

ill run either the bmann ore cars, or my lgb disconnect with the climax, and tough it out either with the 'logging' caboose, or one of my stack of 4065s


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Can you guys post any photos of the LGB 50 with some AMS cars or beside the Accucraft #50 for comparison?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted

here are some pictures of the LGB #50 with an Accucraft 1:20.3 car.

Chuck



















Unlike some mixed scales, I think that this works. It is also possible that #50 is closer to 1:22.5 than 1:24.


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Chuck. It does appear closer than the LGB Mogul and other cars.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Coincidentally, I was out at the Colorado RR Museum today measuring #50. It's 8' wide, 19' 1" long, and the cab is 6' 6" tall from deck to the gutter on the roof. The LGB model is 4 3/16" wide, 10 1/8" long, and 3 1/2" to the cab roof.

Length - 1:22.6
Width - 1:22.9
Height (at cab) 1:22.3

When measured to 1:20.3, the LGB model scales to 7' 1" wide, 17' 2" wide, and 5' 11" to the gutter on the roof. That's every bit on par with industrial diesels (such as the White Pass one I mentioned above).

Later,

K


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks K, my impression has alswys been that it was a little large for the typical 1:24 Colorado cars of LGB, USAT, and Delton.

Chuck


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Ted Yarbrough said:


> Thanks Chuck. It does appear closer than the LGB Mogul and other cars.


Ted, The C&S Mogul is almost spot on 1:22.5 (it is perhaps slightly shortened and the wheelbase is altered - but that depends on which C&S Mogul number you compare to). Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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