# How to put LGB Hook & Loop Couplers on a SD-45?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

My first and only Aristo SD-45 just arrived and I am now puzzled about how I am going to put a LGB Hook & Loop coupler on it (preferably on both ends). When done the loco will need to be able to handle at least 8' diameter curves.

I did not anticipate this being a problem when I ordered the SD-45.

Surely someone out there has figured a way to put a LGB/USA (preferably not Aristo) Hook & Loop coupler on a SD-45. Actually I would like to put them on both ends.

Any suggestions - preferably with photos?

I have not tried anything yet (no sense trying to do what appears to be difficult without first finding out if there is a simple solution). 
Hopefully I can avoid using a "conversion car."


Thanks,

Jerry


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

The fix is posted on the following web site. 

http://www.aristocraft.com/articles...index.html

Regards,
Mark


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By mgilger on 29 Apr 2010 07:59 PM 
The fix is posted on the following web site. 

http://www.aristocraft.com/articles...index.html

Regards,
Mark


Thanks Mark,

That is exactly what I was looking for. At the time I first saw it I did not have any Aristo locos that I wanted H&L couplers on. Today I thought I had seen it somewhere but I did not find it when at the Aristo site.

Regards,

Jerry


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

I have to confess. I remembered seeing something some time ago, but could not remember where. I did a google search and it was the first hit. Just plain luck I guess. 

Mark


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By mgilger on 29 Apr 2010 08:24 PM 
I have to confess. I remembered seeing something some time ago, but could not remember where. I did a google search and it was the first hit. Just plain luck I guess. 

Mark



Hi Mark,

I'd say that you made your own luck. You were smarter and more successful than I was at finding the solution. I appreciate your making the effort on my behalf. 

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have now spent some time with the Aristo-Craft GP-40, SD-45, and Dash-9 plus looked at the instructions for installing hook and loop couplers on them. While it could be done the GP-40 is already limited to 5' diameter curves and the SD-45, E-8 and Dash-9 are limited to 8' diameter curves. I suspect that adding hook and loop couplers would not only involve some "surgery" but they would also increase the minimum diameter curves they can handle so I've decided to stick with the Aristo-Craft knuckle couplers on them (at least for now).

Perhaps a better solution for my hook and loop switching will be to continue to use my FA-1/FB-1's and eventually get the Aristo Consolidation when it is released. Hopefully it will be fully compatible with hook and loop couplers and the Consolidations were often used as switchers.

In the meantime if I want to do any hook and loop switching with the GP-40's, SD-45's, E-8's or Dash-9's I will probably follow chuck n's suggestion and do it with idler cars.

Jerry


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Jerry,
I used my SD-45 on 6 foot dia. curves and never had a problem using knuckle couplers. I would suspect though, that the loop and hook might have a problem pulling the following car off the track. My transition car was always pretty heavy as I had the 27mhz receiver, sound card, and several sets of batteries. So that helped keep it on the track with the knuckle. I have since changed my curve to 10-12 foot, which sure help. I still use the transision car of course, so I can continue using knuckles on the SD-45's.

As a side note, I have also put Aristo knuckles on my USA SD-40-2 and have good luck. I did not want to introduce another manufacture's coupler into the mix. 


Mark


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Whatever floats your boat. I have Kadees on all my locos because of the way I run.(switching operations and peddlar freights)


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By mgilger on 11 May 2010 07:55 PM 
Jerry,
I used my SD-45 on 6 foot dia. curves and never had a problem using knuckle couplers. I would suspect though, that the loop and hook might have a problem pulling the following car off the track. My transition car was always pretty heavy as I had the 27mhz receiver, sound card, and several sets of batteries. So that helped keep it on the track with the knuckle. I have since changed my curve to 10-12 foot, which sure help. I still use the transision car of course, so I can continue using knuckles on the SD-45's.

As a side note, I have also put Aristo knuckles on my USA SD-40-2 and have good luck. I did not want to introduce another manufacture's coupler into the mix. 


Mark 






Hi Mark,

So far I do not have a lot of experience with the new Aristo diesels. I have some weights on order for them and that may help. I think part of the problem I have run into was that the Aristo freight cars are light (even with Aristo metal wheels) and it does not take much to push them off the rails when being pushed into a siding.

Like everything else, the more I use the GP-40, SD-45's and E-8's the better I will get to know what they can or cannot do.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Bob Pero on 11 May 2010 08:51 PM 
Whatever floats your boat. I have Kadees on all my locos because of the way I run.(switching operations and peddlar freights) 

Hi Bob,

I have nothing against Kadee couplers. If I had a perfectly flat layout with nothing but wide curves I might possibly be using some of them. They just have shown that they do not work on my layouts (they do not stay coupled on my ramps). My other issue with Kadees is that I would have to make some permanent cuts on my rolling stock to get them to work best and I always try to keep my rolling stock as original as possible (except for adding metal wheels) in anticipation of the day when everything will have to be sold.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very few installations of Kadees REQUIRE any cutting, except that cutting off the very tip of the tang for truck mounted couplers. But, you can still screw the original coupler back on even with the cut tip. 

I do have 3.4% grades on my layout and one 5.5% downhill. I can run 50 car trains, and 8 car passenger trains with 80' cars. It can be done. 

Just for reference, not arguing. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 May 2010 11:13 AM 
Very few installations of Kadees REQUIRE any cutting, except that cutting off the very tip of the tang for truck mounted couplers. But, you can still screw the original coupler back on even with the cut tip. 

I do have 3.4% grades on my layout and one 5.5% downhill. I can run 50 car trains, and 8 car passenger trains with 80' cars. It can be done. 

Just for reference, not arguing. 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

I understand your points. In my case my grades are more like 10%. Actually they are not grades on the layout but rather ramps to get down to and up from the layout.

One ramp is from the garage layout (through a window - so I did not have to cut another hole in the house brick wall) down to the porch which is at the level of the crawl space yard behind the brick wall.

Another ramp is from that porch level down to the layout itself which is at the ground's highest level (the rest of the layout is up to 6 feet above the ground).














Another ramp is actually a rack rail (about 25%) to get from the yard for the outside layout to the upper crawl space layout about 4 1/2 feet above.












Yet another ramp is to get trains from the lower garage yard to the upper garage yard.












In addition to the R3 and R5 turnouts that Kadees might handle there are 81 electric LGB R1 turnouts most of which involve an "S" curve into a siding. Then too there are 79 pieces of R1 curve track that also give Kadees problems.

I tried Kadees long ago and they simply cannot cope with the challenges of my layouts. I use them for decoration once in awhile on the front of some of the Moguls.

While some see no harm in cutting the tip off of the truck tang in order to install Kadee couplers this is a modification I do not agree with - especially on LGB rolling stock. This is because the tip of LGB truck tongues include the round knob that is integral with the positioning and support of LGB couplers. To cut off the tip significantly reduces the contact area (and thus the support) between the tongue and the coupler.













I appreciate that you are only trying to help. In my situation and considering my desire to keep my trains factory original, Kadees are not an option plus they are unable to meet the demands of my layouts. They simply don't work for me and LGB Hook and Loop and LGB Knuckle Couplers do.

Current Aristo Knuckle Couplers offer some interesting options (especially since they are free) but without the capability to negotiate those 81 LGB R1 turnouts, the new Aristo diesels have locked themselves out of my garage and crawl space layouts and are restricted to outside use only. Even then I will need idler cars to handle my hook and loop equipped rolling stock.

Over the years several people have thought they could figure a way to reduce the grades of my ramps. I tried everything I could think of. In the end unless doing something totally unacceptable (to me) no one could ever come up with a better solution than what I have. It works and if the ramps and curves ended up very steep my solution has been to buy products that work rather than limit myself to designing my layouts around less capable equipment.

I just do what works for me. My layouts have the sort of challenges that have to be seen to understand why I do what I do.

Regards,

Jerry


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## audi84 (Jan 13, 2008)

Differant topic: tips for removing lettering from Aristo aluminum passenger cars, soI can apply decals Thanks audi84......Noel T


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I ended up going in the opposite direction. Since I was not having a lot of luck putting hook & loop couplers on the SD-45's I decided to stick with the Aristo knuckle couplers which was OK for the Aristo rolling stock but then I decided to add a Rail Broom car to the layout to be pushed by the SD-45's.

After looking around to decide which car I was going to cut to install the Rail Broom I originally was going to use a black LGB D&RGW Gondola. The more I thought about it the less I wanted to cut up a perfectly good gondola.

Then I remembered another LGB D&RGW Gondola that I had bought at a train show (cheap). When I bought it I knew I could not actually use it because not only had Kadee couplers been body mounted but the LGB trucks had been discarded and replaced with some sort of prototypical trucks. Even the pivot stubs for the LGB trucks had been cut off. In other words all it was good for (for me) was for static display - so I had put it by one of the coaling towers where it has sat for a few years.

It was really sort of sad because someone had obviously gone to a lot of work carefully painting and modifying this gondola but apparently no one else had been interested in buying it so the seller almost gave it to me along with some other LGB stuff I was buying from him.

That left me trying to figure out how I could possibly use it.

First I found a pair of LGB trucks from something (I have no idea what but I suspect from some sort of tender). Then I found some metal wheels I was not using.

Mounting the Rail Broom was pretty easy 













but I had to figure out how to secure the LGB trucks with the 8-32 brass screws that had been holding the brand X trucks.










I finally came up with the idea of using the barrels from 8 gauge ring tongue wire terminals. The barrels were wide enough to give a press fit in the LGB trucks yet the hole is wide enough for the 8-32 screws. I ground the barrels of the terminals to where the length was that of the width of the plastic around the mounting hole on the LGB trucks. Then I secured the trucks with the screws and some washers. 
When done, I added a LGB Knuckle Coupler to the end without the brush (where the Rail Broom Car will connect with the SD-45's front Aristo Knuckle Coupler).


Does anyone happen to recognize the trucks and wheels above and know who made them? Perhaps I can find someone who wants them (and the Kadee couplers) and can swap a set of LGB trucks and metal wheels for them.

Jerry


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