# NCE ProCab Question



## Clubber (Jan 4, 2020)

I am looking at a used PH-10R setup. I noticed that this ProCab does not have an antenna but there are many photos of ProCabs, including the ones on the NCE website, which do have an antenna. I submitted the question to the NCE website but have not received a response. 

Could this be an older model? Is the range better on the model with the antenna? Is the antenna removable/optional?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Newer radio procabs have internal antennas


range is better with external antenna


external antenna made it easy to break the connector off the circuit board.


Grege


----------



## Clubber (Jan 4, 2020)

Thank you, Sir. I don't need the range on my layout as much as I would like it more robust.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You asked if the range was better, and I answered, but I should tell you that the range is pretty good with the internal patch antenna, just keep you hand away from the top, easy to do since you naturally hold the throttle lower down, and can easily use one hand to operate.


Greg


----------



## Clubber (Jan 4, 2020)

Thank you. I purchased the set.  My RR is not huge so I don't foresee a problem with range. I was just wondering. 
Now I have to figure out which decoders to use for each engine. 
My priority will be my Forney as it currently does not have one. I want to get a combined decoder with sound for it as it doesn't have sound. 
I also have two moguls, a Mikado and a track cleaning loco. All my engines and cars are LGB. 
One Mogul is older and had the circuit board replaced with an LGB 55021 decoder. All the other engines are "DCC ready with 55021s installed." So I am not yet certain what to do about this one mogul yet. Have some reading to do.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Zimo or Massoth will be the easiest fit, but Massoth decoders are some of the trickiest programming, and pain in the butt I have found. Get it programmed from the dealer and do not "tweak" it... I've seen several people have all kinds of problems programming them, too many CVs that depend on each other.


I'd look at Zimo, most trouble free and great sounds. All the connection cables should be available for plug and play.


Greg


----------



## Clubber (Jan 4, 2020)

Thank you. I see Zimo has Forney sounds in their library so will probably go with them. Have to figure out which decoder and speaker to get so I know if fits. I haven't take apart my Forney yet and everything I read says it is a PITA.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For my forneys I placed the speaker in the fuel bunker and drilled holes above the trailing truck. Decoder fit in front of the cab and as I wanted bell and whistle reed sensors I used the Zimo MX696 which just fits.
Biggest issue for first timers is taking boiler off. so:
1. remove front pilot if there
2. remove front of boiler (there are small screws on the side).

3. now you can remove cab and rest of boiler.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Detailed disassembly sequence here:


https://elmassian.com/index.php/lar...-power-mods-aamp-tips/lgb-motive-power/forney


Greg


----------



## Clubber (Jan 4, 2020)

Thank you. There are five versions of the Zimo MX696. KS, KV, N, S, and V I assume I need the KS version?

Do I also need a LGB Mogul Sound Function Trigger?


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I used the S version as it has all the connections needed for a forney loco. I tie the lights and smoke to the 10 volt source and change CV 60 to 160 to reduce the voltage to the lights. Also change CV 114 to 128 for F6 smoke no reduced voltage as the smoke can have 3 heats by changing CV137, 138, 138 plus cv132 to a 72. This gives a wisp at idle (137), smoke at run ((138) and lots of smoke under heavy load, accelerating (139).



There are 3 ways to add bell/whistle sound sensors in LGB engines.
1 For the forney, LGB has a dual sensor that mounts on the rear freight truck. Same unit on Moguls with sound in the tenders.

2 glue reeds in the rear bottom of the motor block
3 get the LGB motor block sensor board with hall effect sensors.


I prefer the 2 glass reeds on the bottom of the motor block, by far the lowest cost method. Note left rail is bell, right rail is horn/whistle.


----------



## Clubber (Jan 4, 2020)

OK thank you very much. 
Why reduce voltage to the lights? My Forney says it is DCC ready so I expect the lights can handle the DCC voltage.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Trust no one (except Dan ha ha!) .... DCC ready means you can easily connect a decoder.... does not guarantee the bulbs won't burn out at higher voltages...


I think the forney headlight was an incandescent bulb.


Greg


----------



## Clubber (Jan 4, 2020)

yeah, you are probably right about that. 

Which speaker do you recommend with this 696S? 
I see the Visation FRS5 is 5W 8Ohm and (according to my measurements) will just fit in the back. But will the decoder fit in there with a speaker with that large of a magnet?


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

All LGB moguls and Forneys came with 5 volt (really run at 6.2 volts by LGB) and 5 volt smoke (seuthe 4-7 volt units). LGB runs the smoke 'hot' and the lights 'bright'. My 18 year old mogul still has original smoke and bulbs!!
SO, running smoke at 5 volts will be weak and that is why I use 10 volts with voltage reduction from 10 to simulate 6 volts on bulbs and 3 different voltages on the smoke unit via Zimo programmable pulsed power and I listed the cv's that control this plus the cv to ignore the voltage reduction for smoke as it is taken care of via cv 137-139.


----------



## Clubber (Jan 4, 2020)

Just to be clear here. I set CVs 132, 137, 138 and 139 all to a value of 72?
They are currently programmed as follows: 132=72, 137=153, 138=204, 139=255

Spoke with Mr. Pierce. He recommended 132=72, 137=70, 138=100, 139=130 since I have the 5V smoke stack.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

All Zimo decoders have BEMF (Back Electro Motive Force) capability for chuff speed and is adjustable by CV 367. LGB does have a dual reed sensor that can be mounted on the rear 'freight' truck for ease of installation. Note the Forney sound requires a lode code as the sound project is not free (written by H. Dappen). There are adjustments needed to be done on some CV's as you only have 10 volts available (KS version) for lights and smoke and the writer has set CV114 to ignore voltage reduction. CV114 needs to be 128 to allow only the smoke unit to not be 'dimmed' and the dimming CV 60 is too high for a 24 volt track, I set it to 160 . Now you can 'tweak)' CV's 137, 138, 139 for heater element control for idle, run and accelerating. Also I change cv's 310-313 to not have lots of standing sounds when engine is not selected.


----------

