# QSI and Aristo C-16?



## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Friends,
I have a new version of the Aristo C-16. I am thinking of sound for it and the QSI is advertised as plug and play. I AM RUNNING TRACK POWER (MRC Controlmaster-20). What advice can anyone give and what can I expect from the QSI? I have heard that the bell and whistle may not operate corretly with track power. How easy is the plug and play really? Thanks!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They operate fine... reverse the polarity while it is moving and the whistle blows or stops (A toggle).... do a quick reversal and back of the track polarity, and the bell stops or starts... 

Now you have to know that the Trackside TE cannot change polarity like this... 

I'm curious, what have you heard about it does not work with track power? QSI has been doing this for a long time, and it works. 

You could have installed the QSI in the time it took to read this. 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
Someone in our club says I need DCC or some other card with the sound system to activate bell and whistle. I do not use Train engineer or other remotes, just the standard power pack controls. Isn't switching the direction while running in order to get a whistle or bell harmful to the drive train?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ted, there has been a lot written about this, please check my web site, and read up a bit on the various "modes" that a QSI can do. Read at least the "DC mode" part.

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...inmenu-239* 


The short answer is that there is a microprocessor that controls the motor, so it IGNORES the reversals in track polarity and interprets them as controls for the bell and whistle. It's like a new car with and electronic transmission, try putting it in reverse at speed, it will just ignore you... that's what my car does. 

The power from the rails goes to the "brains" and the "brains" determine what happens. 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
Great info on your site. Thanks for the link and answering my questions!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The QSI can be used in many configurations, and unfortunately, not everyone understands them, and there is some misinformation out there about them. 

I bought mine from the first batch ever manufactured, and have been involved in some beta testing of different firmwares. 

I have QSI in almost all my locos, and threw 2 Gwire receivers on 2 locos yesterday and took them to an open house... told him to put full voltage (Aristo Trackside TE) on the track and ran my locos around the layout using AirWire T9000 and the new NCE GardenWire throttle. 

So track power and AirWire control... 

The horn and bell can be controlled with the reversing switch. The problems people encountered was from Aristo Trackside TE's that cannot do a reversal of the track polarity like a simple toggle switch, the Trackside TE always drops to zero volts before reversing.... a nice feature, but interferes with this DC "trick" used by QSI.... There is also the QSI "Train Engineer" that will control the sounds on a DC powered layout, and it's $45, but it only handles about 3.5 amps max, so you cannot run 2 locos at the same time on the same track. 

For what it is, the QSI provides many options, and can let you "grow" into a more powerful system... stay DC now, and go DCC or AirWire later... 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
Last night I ran my C-16 and just for testing purposes, switched the direction while train was running. It jerked to a stop, spun the wheels and started in the other direction. The sound system installed will override this? There apparently is nothing on the loco to prevent this at this time.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, the QSI will override this... the whistle will blow, and the speed and direction of the loco will be unaffected. 

Your loco has a motor connected directly to the rails at present... the motor follows the voltage and polarity presented to it. 

With the QSI, the motor is no longer connected to the rails, but to output transistors controlled by a micro computer. 

Maybe you read the very poor review in GR... the QSI is NOT a sound card (alone), it is a sophisticated microprocessor controlled decoder that controls lights, sound, motor... and works from many different kinds of "inputs" DC, DCC, AirWire. 

Just buy it Ted, trust me.. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. be sure to get it programmed to the sound of your choice, and make sure they send you the "chuff cable"... sometimes they forget... you will not use it on this loco, but you might on another steam loco in the future.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted......... Contact Mike Greenwood at 503 ###-#### for QSI information and purchasing. (Corrected number: 503-265-8718. See Mike's post below. -Mod.)

For installation, just pull the tender shell, unplug the dummy plug, plug the QSI board into the socket, put it back together, put it on the track and push "GO".... It's that easy if you've already had the QSI programmed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You missed the speaker Stan, ha ha! 

Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted, have you looked at the Massoth sound decoders? The advantage they have is that they have reed switch inputs that you can assign to trigger any of the built in sound functions like bell, whistle etc., using track magnets. 


Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, but you cannot remotely control the sounds with the direction switch. 

He's asking about plug and play, and DC track power.... is the Massoth Plug and Play? 

You need to state that when you say the Massoth has an advantage. Not everyone knows which units are plug and play. Hardwiring an Aristo is no fun chore, believe me, we just did the old style C16 on my site... 

I do not believe there is any other plug and play decoder that allows you to remotely, on command, control the bell and whistle with no additional hardware. 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Massoth decoders come with a harness which I believe is designed for use in Aristo locos. He didn't say he wanted to remotely trigger the sounds, he just wanted them to work properly with DC, which they will as designed, triggered by magnets in the track. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, I see that you could use magnets to trigger them at the same place every time (massoth), or you could control it whenever you wanted (QSI), as I said pretty much 2 different ways of doing, I don't see one as an advantage over the other if the choice is mutually exclusive, just 2 different ways. It's up to the user. 

The big thing is the plug and play is what I get from all Ted's questions... 

I only see 2 Massoth sound decoders, the Emotion XLS and LS, 



















LS on top... the wires are color coded to plug into a LGB, and they are female... you need male pins and a header.... The XLS obviously has no cables.

I cannot find any reference to any special cable for Aristo, and obviously it is not really plug and play in the sense of plugging the decoder into a socket like the QSI:











Where the pins plug exactly into the Aristo socket...

You would need at least a 12 pin sip header connected to the Massoth to connect easily, and THEN find a place to secure it, ... the QSI is truly plug and play.. 



Regards, Greg

p.s. the price of the QSI is about $130, the Massoth LS is $227, and the XLS is $314 ...


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Illustration 8, page 9 of the manual shows the diagram with the plug (it's not shown in the manual but it comes with the decoder) for use with the Aristocraft DCC interface. You remove the dummy plug and plug in the decoder. But if the QSI is that cheap to buy then it's a no brainer for him using DC only. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Good to know Keith, that's the XLS system, and it shows a wiring diagram only, but it does refer to a "supplied" DCC interface cable. 

Was not trying to be hard to get along with, but many people have told me that to them, plug and play is just that, nothing else than plugging in. Here you have to go through the (admittedly minimal) task of connecting the wires to the proper screw terminals, and making a jumper on one wire (smoke), then mounting the board. 

http://www.massoth.com/dlbereich/datei.php?id=70 

Regards, Greg..


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I hear yah, Greg...I haven't seen a plug and play unit yet that doesn't need some sort of adjustment... 
That's why I'm a big fan of the LGB onboard decoders, especially for locos with complicated lighting, working pantographs etc... 
It would be nice if QSI came out with some European sounds though at those prices... 
It would also be nice if all the decoder manufacturers would use standard sound formats so that sounds could be downloaded into any decoder in any combination. So separate files for bells, whistles, chuffs, announcements, etc....ahhh....not in my lifetime I'm afraid.  

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree completely. 

I looked briefly at the Massoth decoder, and it really looks like a Uhlenbrook (spelling?) decoder, and has a lot of features. I'm working with a Zimo that has similar functions, many tweaks on sound, output to "puff" the smoke, etc. In terms of features, you can go completely crazy. 

The big problem I see is the lack of American sounds.... It's really hard to beat the sounds of the Phoenix library, and the QSI library for HO is good, and when it gets to be used for the G scale, it will be great. 

I guess I cannot blame manufacturers for making proprietary formats, to protect their investment... but it makes it tough on us consumers... 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

You're right about the Phoenix sound...if only I could merge the Massoth sound decoder with some of the Phoenix sound adjustments...I love their computer interface and ability to customize the chuffs...it's awesome. Oh well, they didn't get to the moon in one day either... 

Keith


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## MGreenwood (Jan 22, 2008)

Stan thanks for the reference! I have to ask that you call my business number 503-265-8718. The number listed above is our home phone and you won't reach us during the day. 

Thanks everyone! 

Mike Greenwood


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Guess Ted ordered the QSI. Still the best bet for the money. Later RJD


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Friends, 
Got the QSI and install was simple! Works great. Loco does not even go backwards when you ring the bell or whistle with the reversing switch. This fact amazes me! Only complaint is chuff sounds like a diesel when running at anything above a crawl. RJ seems to think that can be fixed and I'll likely get with him sometime.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Easy to change, see my QSI page on my site for sort of a "cheat sheet", you just need to adjust the chuff interval. 

Glad you took the plunge. Are you running DC only so far? 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
Yes, only track powered DC.


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