# Aristo TE 2.4 Revolution a good choice?



## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

No flames please...Opinions are welcomed if based on logic or experience. Don't know where else to post this.

I need a control system for my new outdoor layout now under construction. Three separate loops. Planning on straight DC power for my operations but battery/steam operators are welcomed too!

Power will be provided by one LGB Jumbo and two MRC 10 amp power packs.

I am considering the new TE 2.4 revolution with 3 trackside receivers.

I've used the old TE at our club layout and hated it. Being very experienced using proportional control with my R/C aircraft hobby I found the "dead" feel of the throttle and transmitter input to train reaction unacceptably slow. I also did not like the large antennae. I only ran one large loop with multiple crossovers so one power source worked reasonably well.

My old "system" was a Futaba 2-channel boat radio with 2 joy sticks. I supplied power to the rails from an MRC transformer going through a Castle Creations speed controller plugged into a futaba receiver. Throttle was controlled through the left stick, direction was controlled by the right stick via a servo moving the directional switch on the transformer (cheap, cobbled together, but effective). I personally have zero interest in "operations" so a ton of "features" are not needed.



Pros: I like the small compact size of the 2.4 Revolution. I like running multiple trains with one controller. I like the "out of the box and I'm running" set-up.


So anyone used the new Revolution? Is it responsive? Will it work with the power supplies I am using?

Thanks in advance.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, I have used the revolution, and with the MRC power packs. It is quite an improvement over the old TE in terms of features, and somewhat better speed control. You do have the ability to do some rudimentary speed matching between locos. 

I'd wait a bit if sound is important, I heard the sound system in person (I have a youtube of it), and for the incremental cost over the standard unit, it's worth the bucks. Granted, this is not a trackside unit, but perhaps you should consider putting them in the locos. 

Another member has used these units as trackside units, but maybe you run too many locos at one time on a track to use the "standard" units as trackside units. 

My videos are under "gregeusa" on youtube.... there's one of using the Revolution also. 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I do not use the system as I use a DDC type but from the folks I've talked to and read about the system should fit your needs. It is responsive is good and you can use your present power supply's.
The only mistake you made in your post was to mentioned batter power so now you will be blasted by these folks to go that direction.







. Later RJD


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Both Aristo Revolution receivers will work very well with your Jumbo and MRC units for controlling track power. The original 5 amp receiver CRE 57002 has been used very successfully by many users.

IMO, the new 57005 15 amp receiver is a very good choice for track power running. The input side is polarity sensitive and will work with DC input from power supplies or with batteries (Gotcha, RJ







) 

With 3 separate loops, you will need 1 receiver for each one and have insulating blocks if they might be connected with crossover switching.

Each of the 3 receivers can be controlled with one transmitter on 3 separate train selections. They are very easily hooked up with 2 wires in from the power supply and 2 wires out to track or motors.

The range as well as response is excellent. 

As Greg posted, if you want to control more than one train on the same track, there are other issues that need to be addressed. However, one train per powered loop (track) will work just like the original TE, but with much better range and response.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

For what you're looking to accomplish, there's no question the Revolution would work very well for you. Good range, good response time, and plenty of flexibility. This is my third summer operating with the Revolution and it's a very good balance of ease-of-use and functionality. 

The one thing that jumps out at me, though, is your concern about the "dead feel" to the throttle. The Revolution system still uses pushbuttons to increase and decrease the speed of the train, just as the old TE does. The difference is that the Revolution throttle has a display that shows where your throttle is set, whereas with the old TE you just kinda guessed based on the speed of the train. The response time between pushing the buttons and seeing a change in speed on the Revolution depends on a number of programmable aspects. First, there's how many "steps" the throttle jumps whenever you push the button. It steps in increments of anywhere from 0.1 to 5 on a scale of 0 - 100, so if you have it set at 0.1, it's going to take more pushes on the button (or holding the button down longer) before you see a perceptible change in speed than if you had it set to 5. Also, you can program in varying amounts of momentum into the throttle, so that will delay response time as well. If that's acceptable, then you're in good shape. If you're looking for "jam the stick all the way to the top and instantly have the loco take off like a jackrabbit," response of R/C car and boat speed controllers, it's not going to be fast enough. (But I'm certain your passengers and freight would appreciate a smoother journey.) 

Personally, I run with a fair amount of momentum programmed in (usually around 70%) because I like prototypically slow starts and stops. I hold the "up" or "down" arrow buttons to set my throttle to the desired position, then sit back and let the electronics take over to gradually increase or decrease the speed to the motor until the train is up to speed. I could do the same thing removing the momentum and repeatedly pushing the button to get the same effect, but that's a lot of button pushing for me. You'll learn what the "ideal" throttle setting is for each locomotive based on your preference for how fast you want to see it run. And even with that much momentum built in, I find I have more than adequate control for prototype switching. I know you profess to have "zero" interest in that, but it generally requires a greater degree of control than what's needed for "just" watching them run around the railroad. If it's controllable enough for switching, it will in all likelihood meet your needs for your railroad. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo has gone strangely "silent" (no pun intended) on their new Revolution with sound, but here's a youtube I made with Navin... 

Caveats: The updated transmitter was stolen at the show, so controlling some of the features was difficult. It's my opinion that the distortion you hear is merely because the volume was set too high, and not a defect in the system. Maybe not at "Phoenix / Zimo / QSI / Massoth" level of quality, but definitely a giant cut above the $100 sound boards, AND if the price holds firm, only $50 more than the stock Revo receiver.

This will be a boon to many people




Greg


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Thanks for all the responces... 

K...I am used to fast response from my old simple home brewed set-up. What I disliked about the old TE at our club was the slow response (likely programmed in). 

Example, true story at our club layout...My new LGB Mikado is heading down the track and I see little Suzy grabs-a-lot make eye contact with the moving loco from 20 feet away. She has "kitty" written all over her face as she begins to move her hand onto the track in front of the approaching loco. I try to slow the thing down to avoid the menace that is on the tracks but I can't do it fast enough! So I hit the emergancy stop and all those heavy passenger cars go flying off the track from the momentum. Poor kitty.  

I understand what you're saying, my Shay will never complete a snap-roll! 

Sounds like it will work well for me...I may even put one in my K-27 as it looks like a near 'plug-n-play' operation anyway. Then I can control the speed on the clubs layout to my liking. 

And Greg...The sound does indeed appeal to me at that price!


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

I converted over to the Revolution this spring from the old 27mhz TE. I'm pleased with the Revo in all aspect, except for the range. I get less range than with the 27mhz TE. In all of my SD45's, the range is maybe 40 feet. I suspect it's because the short antenna is getting bunched up in the other wires inside of the engines. Maybe keeping the antenna snug against the board would be better than extending it outward. I need to do some more testing. I also like being able to run multiple engines and match their speeds in addition to the momentum feature.

Mark
*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com*


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Mark...If not obvious from this thread my experience with the 2.4Ghz TE is zip. That said, I have a ton of experience with 2.4Ghz radios. 

One of my "concerns", a minor one to be sure, is the lone receiver antenna. R/C aircraft systems use two of them on the receiver, some even use an additional receiver! The 2.4Ghz signal is very "short" and highly dependant on the angle the antenna is to the "wave". I'm not that concerned as it is a train and highly unlikely to run out of range and never come back. Unlike model planes, I've never heard of anyone losing a train due to a lost signal.  

I will experiment with mine but my guess is pointing the transmitter antenna at the receiver will likely cause a great reduction in range. Optimum signal strength with most 2.4Ghz R/C radios is achieved when the transmitting antenna is perpendicular to the receiver antenna.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I am somewhat confused.

Why are you considering "the new TE 2.4 revolution with 3 trackside receivers."

In that situation I would be using old TE's (because I have them) with the MRC's and a LGB tethered remote with the Jumbo. I still like and use the old TE's as well as the Revolutions but sometimes I happen to really like tethered remotes - especially with the LGB Jumbo. Every situation is different.

Why do you need a 15 amp Super Receiver unless you have a lot of locos that you want to control simultaneously? You are only going to get a max of 10 amps out of your power supplies anyway.

Are you going to be walking around as you control the trains on your layout or mostly sitting at one position?

I am not suggesting that you are wrong.

The Revolutions will work very nicely whether the 5 amp or the 15 amp. I am mainly curious about you running three mainlines each from a Super Receiver which will not allow you individual loco control as you would have with more regular Revolutions for the same price.

Just curious and I am not implying anything is wrong with what you want to do. I may have missed something.

Scott Polk said at the NGRC that the Revolution with sound is coming but he was unwilling to speculate on a delivery date. He also said that Aristo-Craft will try to make it somewhat compatible with existing Revolutions but did not make any sort of commitment that it will be possible. To me that means it is definitely not in production so for me personally I don't consider it to be a practical option until Aristo-Craft at least confirms that production has begun. In the meantime no concrete pricing is available and no orders are being taken for it. I look forward to buying it myself but I am buying other sound systems until I know for certain when I will be able to buy the "Philharmonic Sound."

I put a copy of the new Revolution brochure including a description of the new sound system here:

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

One factor that might or might not be important to you is that if you are running some non-Aristo locomotives it is possible that their lighting might not like the PWC that the Super Receiver puts on the tracks. I have not heard of anyone actually experiencing any problems with this and it may not important to you but when comparing the Revolution to the TE it is worth mentioning that the TE receiver can turn PWC on or off while the Revolutions always put out PWC. Aristo-Craft does put out a PWC filter for use with Sierra sound systems but it is not designed to remove the PWC from a Super Revolution.

I like the Revolutions and I now have a Super Receiver. Some people even try to suggest that I work for Aristo (BS) but I think it is important to understand what they do not do just as much as what they can do. So far I have zero actual experience with the Super (Trackside) Receiver. Stan probably has more experience with and knowledge about it than anyone except perhaps Dave Bodnar and either of them will give you the straight facts about anything regarding the Revolutions.

Regarding range of the Revolution vs the TE I have found both of them to be quite good. The rated range of the Revolution is a lot further but I have never tested either. I did accidentally find out that their reaction to the environment is different. Metal screening can block the Revolution but not the TE while other things block the TE and not the Revolution. As someone mentioned, the little antenna on the Revoluton ABSOLUTELY MUST be erect or range will be greatly reduced.

Jerry


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

No Jerry...You are not confused though I could likely be. 

Contolling trains should be a simple matter for what I require...Forward-Back / Fast-Slow, done. 

I assumed the new 2.4 would allow me to control tracks 1, 2, and 3 as Cabs 1, 2, and 3...Is this not possible? 

My intent is to run one DC powered engine on each of the three loops simultaneously with one controller. No can do? 

If I canot do as above, then I shall simply install three outdoor throttles, likely of the old LGB variety. 


I am not using a tethered remote as my intention is to keep my power supplies inside the house in the "Train Room". Also I will be moving about a bit as the layout will have a sitting wall on one end and a deck on the other. The "train room" has an indoor layout and is on grade with the outdoor layout so it will act as an "Engine Shed" at the end of the days operations. That is assuming my wife does not discover my plans to cut a "doggie door" into the side of the house! Thinking of "hiding" it in a tunnel.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Yes you can; you'll just need a separate receiver for each track. In reality, if you're only running one loco per track, you could feasibly get away with the on-board receiver instead of the trackside unit to power each loop, but the extra capacity per loop wouldn't be a bad thing if you're running lights, smoke, etc., or multiple locos; that kind of thing. 

Each receiver becomes a cab, and you can select which of the cabs you want to control via the selection keys near the top of the transmitter. 

Later, 

K


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Pterosaur on 08 Jul 2011 11:11 AM 
No Jerry...You are not confused though I could likely be. 

Contolling trains should be a simple matter for what I require...Forward-Back / Fast-Slow, done. 

I assumed the new 2.4 would allow me to control tracks 1, 2, and 3 as Cabs 1, 2, and 3...Is this not possible? 

My intent is to run one DC powered engine on each of the three loops simultaneously with one controller. No can do? 


OK, Now I understand better.

I see no reason why you could not do exactly what you want to do with the Revolution - with the option of using three regular Revolution Receivers being used as Trackside units at less cost than the Super Receiver. There is absolutely nothing wrong with going with the Super Receiver and long term it could be the better investment. I was just wondering if you were aware that the regular Revolution can be used as a Trackside for up to 5 amps (8 amps max). The 10 amps of your power supplies do not dictate a 10 amp capable Revolution.

Also I absolutely agree with your concept of the Revolution Remote assigning Cabs 1, 2, 3 etc. and there it IMHO beats the heck out of the old TE's.

Obviously you had a much clearer understanding of what you wanted to do than I did. I tend to think 3 power supplies = 3 remotes (oops).

You sold me. Now I agree that the Revolutions (regular or Super) may be perfect for you - not that you needed my agreement for anything.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

You can find the instructions for the Revolution and its related items on the Aristo-Craft website. 

http://www.aristocraft.com/

I found the Revolution instructions here:

http://www.aristocraft.com/techinfo...A_0409.pdf

The instructions can probably answer most of your questions but feel free to ask anything here as well.

Have fun,

Jerry


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Thanks again guys...Now just a matter of finding a good price. 

Jerry, I will likely pick up a "starter kit" first and use the standard receiver as you suggest. Being an engineer by trade I tend to be a bit on the over-kill side when it comes to limits so the super receiver appeals to that side of me! The most demanding current needs are probably my LGB croc pulling a long string of lighted Rhb coaches but I do hope to add a number of D&RGW coaches behind the 'K'. No doubt the standards will work. 

Thanks again.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Pterosaur on 08 Jul 2011 12:15 PM 
Jerry, I will likely pick up a "starter kit" first and use the standard receiver as you suggest. Being an engineer by trade I tend to be a bit on the over-kill side when it comes to limits so the super receiver appeals to that side of me! The most demanding current needs are probably my LGB croc pulling a long string of lighted Rhb coaches but I do hope to add a number of D&RGW coaches behind the 'K'. No doubt the standards will work. 

Thanks again. Since you own an LGB Jumbo I appreciate where you are coming from. All I was saying is that while I love my LGB Jumbos I would not feel right suggesting that someone NEEDED to buy one and I would have a hard time explaining why I like them so much but no one should ever try to separate me from them or they might get hurt.










I think the LGB Jumbo is a perfect analogy for the Aristo Super Receiver. Not everyone needs it but it is sure nice to have and someone like you (or me) who loves pulling long strings of lighted coaches is probably VERY WELL advised to buy them.

When I pull a dozen lighted Aristo Streamliners behind an Aristo F1-ABBA I end up drawing around 12 amps.

Heck, you may have figured out why I NEED my own Super Receiver - I honestly never thought of that.









One word of caution - As I recall I can get around 26 volts DC out of my Jumbos (which I need with my LGB Auto-Uncoupling Switchers) but I believe 24 volts is the absolute max you want to feed into a Revolution. Here again Stan and Dave are the experts rather than me.

Again you sound like me. I would rather run my LGB locos with the Revolution powering the track than to go to the trouble of installing Revolutions in them (but Stan has been doing this as well for others).

Jerry


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## Adam Anderson (Apr 21, 2011)

Ive always liked the REVO, but it stinks that you cant run more than one train on the track at a time..............









Adam


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, you can if you put the receivers in the locos, as was the basic plan for the step from the TE to the Revo. 

But while running "trackside" has it's "cons", it has the pro's of allowing running of unmodified locos (with the caveat of pulse power and possible lighting problems), and saves money. 

Regards, Greg


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Yep Greg, one of my "likes" about a track-side receiver set-up is I can indeed run all my non-receiver equipped loco's. I really have no desire to equip the roughly two dozen or more Lionel engines I own to R/C. 

However using a trackside receiver should not preclude the operation of more than one loco on the track (my convoluted view anyway). For example, should I choose to run two loco's with receivers installed in the loco I simply program them to unused slots on the TE. Cab1 is the track receiver, advance the throttle to full. Now run the receiver equipped loco's as CabX and CabY. They should perform as normal eh? 

Throw on a steamer and a battery powered loco and watch everyones head spin! 

Either it will work, or the layout will explode in a ball of fire and I'll have to work on outdoor layout revision 3.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Pterosaur on 08 Jul 2011 03:43 PM 
However using a trackside receiver should not preclude the operation of more than one loco on the track (my convoluted view anyway). For example, should I choose to run two loco's with receivers installed in the loco I simply program them to unused slots on the TE. Cab1 is the track receiver, advance the throttle to full. Now run the receiver equipped loco's as CabX and CabY. They should perform as normal eh? 


Deja Vu

Now you are into a question I had a long time ago but never asked the experts about...

Can a Super Receiver putting PWC on the rails work with an on board Revolution that is also putting out PWC to the loco? Granted the PWC to the loco has nothing to do with the PWC from the track and I would ASSUME that the on-board Revolution would not have any problem with input voltage with PWC. Assume is my problem word.

Along the same thread is what effect, if any, PWC has on locos with built in DCC decoders?

I believe the facts are that none of the above is an issue but I don't actually know the facts.

While into these mind boggles one can throw in a mixture of PWC with DCC and or DCS on the same rails at the same time. I know of one guy adventurous enough to have done it in one particular combination and so far gotten away with it.

Actually I see nothing wrong with anything you are suggesting including the battery power and the live steam PROVIDED the battery has no path to the rails and PROVIDED the steam loco has isolated drivers. I believe all the Aristo live steamers have insulated drivers but I also believe a lot of non-Aristo live steamers do not.

There is a lot that can be done that has not been advertised or recommended. The problem can be when someone attempts something without fully understanding what he is doing and what the potential consequences could be either to his equipment or to himself. I am not referring to you at all here.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, but...

IF the "trackside" Revo goes to full DC at full throttle, then it's like just opening up a DC supply to the rails. I'd guess that it's pretty close. This has been done before with the older TE, but usually in linear mode to ensure you have DC and not PWM on the rails.

So you have a "trackside" on cab 1, and two locos with Revo's "inside" to cab 2 and cab 3. I'll bet it will work if you have cab 1 at max, just as you said.

I'll bet it will work also at, say about 90% throttle, but nothing is "guaranteed" except with "DC" input.

I believe that Ed H. or Ward H. or Jerry have all done this on the original TE's (but again usually in linear mode).


I'd go for it.

Greg 



Posted By Pterosaur on 08 Jul 2011 03:43 PM 
Yep Greg, one of my "likes" about a track-side receiver set-up is I can indeed run all my non-receiver equipped loco's. I really have no desire to equip the roughly two dozen or more Lionel engines I own to R/C. 

However using a trackside receiver should not preclude the operation of more than one loco on the track (my convoluted view anyway). For example, should I choose to run two loco's with receivers installed in the loco I simply program them to unused slots on the TE. Cab1 is the track receiver, advance the throttle to full. Now run the receiver equipped loco's as CabX and CabY. They should perform as normal eh? 

Throw on a steamer and a battery powered loco and watch everyones head spin! 

Either it will work, or the layout will explode in a ball of fire and I'll have to work on outdoor layout revision 3.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I'm a belts AND suspenders guy. Even though the TE and Revolution are rated at 24 volts I usually run the power supply (even Aristo power supplies) through a throttle if for no other reason than to keep from burning my 18 volt lights out. I usually run at 20 VDC.

Also, as I am sure that you do with plain analog track power I occasionally run multiple locos on the same track at the same time. I have used the Revolution and the TE to control the fastest loco and the throttle to control the slowest loco. If I want to slow or stop the slow one or both I lower the throttle and if the fast one is too fast or too slow, I control it with the remote.

I have never done this with the Super Receiver but to the best of my knowledge there is no minimum voltage one is supposed to run through it.

Of course with those three main lines running on three power supplies you don't plan on any crossover turnouts now do you?









Jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Why did I know that Stan would eventually throw in that it will work with battery.







. Cause I know Stan and knew he could not resist and that is why I posted as such. It's called pulled your chain. Gotcha.







Later RJD


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 08 Jul 2011 05:24 PM 
I have never done this[/b] with the Super Receiver but *to the best of my knowledge* there is no minimum voltage one is supposed to run through it.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 08 Jul 2011 04:46 PM 
*Can a Super Receiver putting PWC on the rails work with an on board Revolution that is also putting out PWC to the loco?* Granted the PWC to the loco has nothing to do with the PWC from the track and *I would ASSUME that the on-board Revolution would not have any problem with input voltage with PWC.* Assume is my problem[/b]

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 08 Jul 2011 10:48 AM 
*So far I have zero actual experience with the Super (Trackside) Receiver. Stan probably has more experience with and knowledge about it than anyone except perhaps Dave Bodnar and either of them will give you the straight facts about anything regarding the Revolutions.*

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 08 Jul 2011 10:48 AM 
*the TE receiver can turn PWC on or off while the Revolutions always put out PWC. Aristo-Craft does put out a PWC filter for use with Sierra sound systems but it is not designed to remove the PWC from a Super* *Revolution.*

Jerry


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan just beat me too it


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a warning to the OP, 

When the old TE systems were run in linear mode, you could easily use them as "voltage reducers" as Jerry suggested. 

Unfortunately, the new Revo systems are ONLY PWM output, so you cannot use them to "reduce" the track voltage to other locos equipped with Revos. 

Also, the way PWM works is FULL VOLTAGE pulses of variable duration. To a motor, they sort of "average out" to a lower voltage (but still not the same). 

But to light bulbs, and especially electronics, they "see" the full voltage, even if it's in pulses. 

So you cannot duplicate exactly what Jerry did (which was wise) using the new Revolution. 

The scheme of powering the track with Revo "tracksides", but then being able to use a loco with a Revo installed works ONLY with the "trackside" at full voltage. Only at "full speed" do the "pulses" "grow" in width to look like DC. 

Regards, Greg


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

Which older Revolution TE didn't you like? I have no experience with any of them but reading this thread has been fun and informative. The reason I ask is I have the opportunity to trade two box cars (Aristo) for an older TE, I believe he referred to it as a third generation but I forget the number (44570 or something close). That includes the transmitter and receiver, or whatever you call them. FESTUS


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Festus (Rick?) 

I don't believe I said I did not like the older Revolution TE... in fact that is really not a term you can call the hardware. 

TE usually refers to "Train Engineer", which has been applied to many products. 

In this thread, I've tried to keep "TE" to mean the older, 27 MHz systems, and here specifically we have only been talking about the "trackside" unit (there are a number of variations)... and the older ones had a "PWC - Linear" switch on them, which put out either PWM (Pulse Width Modulated) power, or Linear (smoothly changing DC (Direct Current)). 

Anything with "Revolution" is the newer 2.4 GHz product, right now there are two types of receivers, one intended to plug into the Aristo socket, with a 3 amp capacity (continuous), which I normally call a "Revo", and one that was initially called a "Trackside", now called a "Super Receiver" that is larger, does not plug into the socket and has more current capacity. 

There are indeed "generations" of the older TE's, but there have been so many changes, I've never seen mass agreement on what "generation" had what feature. 

Here's a web page that shows most of the Aristo "TE" products, and objective data about them:
*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai.../aristo-rc* 


Hope this helps, 

Greg


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

Pterosaur wrote: "I've used the old TE at our club layout and hated it." Perhaps I should be more specific. My original post was to find out if the system I'm trading two box cars for (a CRE 55473 transmitter and a CRE 55471 receiver) was the same as the TE system that Pterosaur said he hated so much, but according to the model numbers, I reckon not. I found all the info I needed on George's website where he covered the difference between the two. I will have a newer version than the TE and hopefully that means a better system. Festus


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

The system in use at my club was one of the oldest TE's...Not sure of the exact model number. What I had serious issues with was no "tactical" or "visual" feedback. Combined with a very non-responsive throttle made for some situations where we could not react fast enough to avoid wrecks or slow down derailments (cars got dragged). 

My opinion, and only mine...I want reaction times in an R/C system that match the speed/feel of my hard wired MRC/LGB throttles. I did this with my own cobbled together "system". The new Revolution will at least give me visual cue as to current throttle setting. With the "old" system all you have is "buttons". 

Example...My Mikado is moving at what appears to be 1/4 throttle, I look and see the actual throttle input is 100%. Something is wrong. With the old TE there is nothing to indicate this. Again, my opinion...I don't like being "blind" and "insensitive". That is why I did not go for the old TE or systems like it. That does not preclude it being completely acceptable, or even loved by others.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Pterosaur on 11 Jul 2011 08:49 PM 
I want reaction times in an R/C system that match the speed/feel of my hard wired MRC/LGB throttles. I did this with my own cobbled together "system". The new Revolution will at least give me visual cue as to current throttle setting. With the "old" system all you have is "buttons". 

You have provided very good reasons for choosing the Revolution over the old Train Engineer. The Revolutions give you far more programming capabilities to adjust the features you mentioned without making understanding the procedure unnecessarily difficult.

Jerry


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

What harm does cranking up your power to full blast do just so the Train Engineer can control things? Doesn't it actually leave the power to the track on full all the time? That can't be healthy for locos on the track. I'm just wondering if anyone has had trouble with burning things out with this system? It seems like, after reading the instructions, it would be a problem.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's hard to answer that question without you saying: 

1. What is supplying power to the tracks? 
2. Which Train Engineer? 

With all the different configurations and products mentioned on this thread, you need to very specific. 

I know the answers, but want to be sure of the question! 

Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

If it helps, here are the 3 generations of the Train Engineers that I have.











The first is two channel while the 2nd & 3rd have a lot more channels (I would have to get the manuals to see the specs).

Notice the different antenna and keyboard on the 2nd and 3rd.

I believe they are the 1994
http://www.aristocraft.com/techinfo...0-1994.pdf

1996
http://www.aristocraft.com/techinfo...0-1996.pdf

and 2000 
http://www.aristocraft.com/techinfo...ctions.pdf

versions.

Check the links and you will find that all parts are not available for some versions.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Correction. It looks to me like Image 1 (left) is a 1994 or 1996 version, Image 2 is a 2000 version and Image 3 is a 2005 version plus the later 2000 versions had the telescoping antenna rather than the Rubber Ducky antenna.













There may be other versions. These happen to be the ones that I have. Each transmitter has a matching receiver but I would be hard pressed to identify what is different about the receivers other than the way the external fan is wired and the gauge of the connection wires. I try to keep them in sets but I do use multiple transmitters occasionally with a single receiver. I like having separate remotes for each mainline rather than trying to switch the transmitter to control multiple locomotives. I do the same thing with the Revolutions - one transmitter per loco rather than multiple locos per transmitter. Its easier on my brain that way.

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have two of the kind of the left. three of the one in the middle and two of the one on the right 

I bought them all used. and they are all set up as battery cars. 

JJ


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

There were 2 versions of the one on the left. One was made in Korea and did not have the switches inside for multiple frequencies. 

A second version was made and did have the switch inside for selecting 8 different frequencies.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Externally, the only differences I have seen in the trackside receivers is having a linear/pwc switch. I think the older ones did not have it, but others probably know which and when. 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The older metal cased receivers could only output 4 amps, not the 10 amps they were fused at. 

These were small enough to mound in some tenders and cars. 

Also, they have a din connector that supplied low current cmos type signals plus 12 volts and ground for an accessory receiver that tied directly to this receiver. Star Hobbies still had some of these last year. 

Good information on George Schreyers site on these.


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

To add to the confusion, I found this article on the TE (non-revo) that tries to lay out all the variations. My there are a lot! Hope this helps


http://www.derlux.de/demystify.pdf


Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I read that Jerry, but I could not find where it talked about the various versions of the TE handheld or receiver. It does mention the 27 MHz on board unit. 

Good info here. 

Dan, did that TE trackside have a linear/PWC switch? 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

No, it did not. I gave George Schreyer the pictures of the old receiver and the info is here: 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/te_programming.html


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Well I decided to order one Revolution "starter kit", two onboard receivers, and one trackside receiver. It's a start. 

To make my layout as "visitor friendly" as I can, I am placing the "Trackside" receiver on a switch (DPDT) thereby avoiding the whole DC/PWM issue. Switching "off" the trackside receiver will allow the transformer to supply power direct to the rails for my onboard receivers or for anyone else’s R/C system. To avoid potential damage to the receiver in "direct power" mode I will need to isolate the "receiver to track" lines when using "sraight DC. Should work. 

Assuming the weather ever cooperates I can add further trackside receivers as I add more loops. Weather (constant rain) has made work on the RR all but impossible.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't read any of the responses to your original question.

My experience has been the revolution system works extremely well and is super simple to set up and install. I am using it to control the trains on board, so I would expect controlling the three loops with trackside TE's should be simple.


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

I have been using the 5 amp on board Revo receivers as trackside units for 3 years now. For non Revo equiped locos I have variable track power. For Revo equiped locos I run trackside throttle to 100%. As Greg said and David Bodnar confirmed for me on another site, at 100% the output is the same as linear. I like the options this set up gives me. I have run 4 smaller locos on the same loop without overloading the trackside Revo. 4 larger locos would overload the 5 amp unit but I chose to limit my locos instead of going with a trackside unit. At least so far. I might buy one to power both loops. 
When setting up your throttle put the trackside Revos on cab 0,1 and 2. Then when you hit the all stop button, you will be killing the track power first, while the transmitter scrolls through all the cabs, shutting them down one at a time.


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

I have been using the 5 amp on board Revo receivers as trackside units for 3 years now. For non Revo equiped locos I have variable track power. For Revo equiped locos I run trackside throttle to 100%. As Greg said and David Bodnar confirmed for me on another site, at 100% the output is the same as linear. I like the options this set up gives me. I have run 4 smaller locos on the same loop without overloading the trackside Revo. 4 larger locos would overload the 5 amp unit but I chose to limit my locos instead of going with a trackside unit. At least so far. I might buy one to power both loops. 
When setting up your throttle put the trackside Revos on cab 0,1 and 2. Then when you hit the all stop button, you will be killing the track power first, while the transmitter scrolls through all the cabs, shutting them down one at a time.


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

I have been using the 5 amp on board Revo receivers as trackside units for 3 years now. For non Revo equiped locos I have variable track power. For Revo equiped locos I run trackside throttle to 100%. As Greg said and David Bodnar confirmed for me on another site, at 100% the output is the same as linear. I like the options this set up gives me. I have run 4 smaller locos on the same loop without overloading the trackside Revo. 4 larger locos would overload the 5 amp unit but I chose to limit my locos instead of going with a trackside unit. At least so far. I might buy one to power both loops. 
When setting up your throttle put the trackside Revos on cab 0,1 and 2. Then when you hit the all stop button, you will be killing the track power first, while the transmitter scrolls through all the cabs, shutting them down one at a time.


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

I have been using the 5 amp on board Revo receivers as trackside units for 3 years now. For non Revo equiped locos I have variable track power. For Revo equiped locos I run trackside throttle to 100%. As Greg said and David Bodnar confirmed for me on another site, at 100% the output is the same as linear. I like the options this set up gives me. I have run 4 smaller locos on the same loop without overloading the trackside Revo. 4 larger locos would overload the 5 amp unit but I chose to limit my locos instead of going with a trackside unit. At least so far. I might buy one to power both loops. 
When setting up your throttle put the trackside Revos on cab 0,1 and 2. Then when you hit the all stop button, you will be killing the track power first, while the transmitter scrolls through all the cabs, shutting them down one at a time.


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