# Software?



## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

Does anyone use software tied through a computer interface? If so, what are your votes on the best? I have digitrax with the LocoBus interface all tied together. I have used JMRI and a couple of demo commercial software tools, none of which have jumped out at me as being perfect. I want to be able to do some scripting as well as have a cool looking user interface. I am trying to shy away from rebuilding one of my own in VB6 but I am not opposed to it. What i cannot figure out is why everyone uses separate applications to do similar things, JMRI has panel pro and decoder pro, etc. I just want a simple tool that allows me to program and run trains while offering the ability to automate functions through scripting. 

I am about to jump full in on JMRI but was hoping to find something that had a better interface. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

JMRI is your best bet. Get hold of Bob Grosh, he is the guru on automation, beyond anyone else's stuff I have seen. 


Regards, Greg


----------



## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

Well I've tried most of them including JMRI. In my opinion traincontroller by RR&Co is by far the best. 

www.freiwald.com


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Traincontroller looks interesting. 

On thing about JMRI is that besides being free, it supports most decoders, and I mean the specialized, manufacturer-specific CVs. 

The traincontroller site does not mention anything but a few standard CVs. 

Does it do programming of other CVs? 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Let me chime in with experience from many poeple in particualr in Europe since DCC is far more propogated over there. 

Freiwald is the very best out there in the market and easy to use. 
STP (http://www.stp-software.at/) is also good but a little bit more work under the hood to got all the automation accomplished. 

Both however, are miles ahead of JMRI. 

Just my seven cents.


----------



## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

Hi Greg,

Yes your observation is correct, only a few standard CVs can be set with TrainController. This is associated to the way traincontroller 'profiles' engines so that it knows their characteristics, and can control their speed and stop them very accurately.

RR&Co does have a separate product called TrainProgrammer that is usable to program any CV. However in this category I think JMRI DecoderPro is best.

For actually running trains there is no doubt in my mind that TrainController is by far the best software available.

Unlike the original correspondent I do think there is a distinct difference between running trains and programming decoders. For running trains I use RR&Co TrainController, for programming decoders I use JMRI DecoderPro, these things do not need to be done at the same time.

I run my railway with TrainController, if I can offer any help to anyone in this regard I will be happy to try. There is an excellent forum on the friewald site. The manual is downloadable for free. The software isn't free, but can be tried for free. 
I'm just a satisfied user and have no other connection with RR&Co.


Regards
Cliff


----------



## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

As is often the case, a question is asked without the person posing the question explaining his goal. The initial question about what is the best software to program and run trains was very unclear.

most of us modellers actually see the engineer's job as the one we like to mimic when we operate though some prefer the conductors task. In this world, programming typically means setting the decoder so the locomotive performs the way we would like it to with us as engineer. But that does not seem to be what the question was about because Decoder Pro is as good as there is and it is free.

A second task, that of a dispatcher using CTC, is also fairly common among the operations crowd especially if the operation is a simulation of a modern ops. Now Panel Pro is a good choice (it may or may not be best) and it also is free.

Very few people are actually interested in a fully automated operation of the model train itself. Those that are tend to have a large display layout and are often doing this in a commercial or business environment. That is not to say that some computer oriented individuals do not have automation as their particular interest but it is a pretty small niche. And for that, some special software is needed as shown in this thread.

Why the expectation that a single software package should do all three of the tasks above? The interest in programming decoders is much larger in North America than the interest in dispatching by CTC which in turn is much larger than the interest in automated train running. It seems to me that the world is unfolding in a normal way given the levels of interest. I have no interest in automated running, i am the dispatcher on a large HO layout but we use TT/TO not CTC BUT most everyone I know wants to program decoders. 

Regards ... Doug


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The responses I have gotten here seem to confirm my observations, that for programming decoders, especially all the manufacturer-specific CVs, Decoder Pro is still the most complete. 

This is pretty easy to determine by just the documentation. 

As to best software to control, or best software to automate, I will look into some more softwares that were brought up here. I'm not really into automation, maybe because the transponding features are still not "hammered down" in my opinion, and are not prevalent throughout G scale equipment. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

Greg, 

While I agree about DecoderPro, I don't agree with your comments about 'transponding'. 

'transponding', 'RailCom' or 'NMRA Bi-directional DCC' and related technologies should not be seen as a prerequisite for running trains via a computer. All these technologies do is to say to the computer 'train x is in area y', as opposed to 'there is something in area y' which is provided by any digital system that supports feedback. The computer can work out easily what train is in area y because it knows the direction of travel of all trains, what routes are set, and the topology of the layout. A once only manual indication of where a train is when it is first put on the layout is all that is required. While these technologies may help in aberration detection, or detecting a new train put on the track, these features are not required for computer control. 

With Train Controller it is possible to build a panel to show where trains are, route settings etc, and drive trains manually in a variety of ways (digital system handheld, on screen throttle, smart Hand, with interlocking, without interlocking etc). It is also possible, but optional, to build in semi-automatic features, such as crossing gates opening automatically, sounds made at certain points on the layout, signalling etc and use manual control where train are driven by people. It is also possible, but optional, to introduce fully automatic operation where trains are driven by the computer. None of this relies on 'transponding' or related technology, and neither should it. 

The only prerequisite is a digital system that provides feedback. 

Regards 
Cliff


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree it's not a prerequisite, you can use block occupancy detectors. 

For me, if I was to do automation, I would do it all the way and want transponding, so I would also know which loco or car was where... 

Regards, Greg


----------



## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

All, thank you for the replies. As it may have not been clear what I was looking for, I would like to develop automation code to run my (virtual right now) layout. It appears that TrainController is one of the better pieces of software out there. I have started to test this but have not committed to it yet. 

My goal is to have a decent sized layout that will enable multiple engines to run at the same time without me having to operate all of them, instead me being the engineer of one with the computer operating the remaining.


----------



## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

Hello, 

I think you are doing the correct thing in selecting software before a layout is built, the software will determine what DCC systems you can use, and has an effect on where contact indicators are required on the layout etc. I selected the software before my layout was built, my layout runs using TrainControler. 

With TrainController you can indeed have some trains automatically controlled, and some manually. 

As I am sure you are aware, there is an excellent and active forum on the RR&Co site where most issues can be sorted out quickly. There don't appear to be many large-scale users of TrainController, but me being one of then, if there is anything I can help you with please let me know and I will see how I can help. 

I don't think I'm allowed to post pictures here, or videos, but if you find the other forum over the pond you should be able to find some. I also have some videos of the layout running under automation on youtube. 

Regards 
Cliff


----------



## bcer960 (Dec 27, 2007)

I have a mid sized (I think) indoor layout.But I am a modeller, not a runner. So about 2 years ago I converted to RR&Co Train Engineer Silver and digitrax. I now "run" mt trains completely automated by pc. I am not done building yet, as I have a streetcar line to complete, and that will probably not be done for a couple of years, but the mainline is an over under dogbone with many sidings, more hidden than showing. The pc runs 8 trains all with different starts and stops, in a sequence that I set up. Thewhole program takes 78 min. before starting over. I am now working on trying to get a automated coupler/uncoupler sequence so my switcher can take cars and drop them off, pick them up later and take them back. 

I did have a little trouble in the beginning with the RR&C0 software, but that was mostly because the manual was not availlable for the new program, and the changes from the old manual and the new software, didn't always make sense. Having said that, the forum at RR&Co is excellent, with many people willing to help.

Just m,y opinion, but RR&Co is the way to go. 

Justa very satisfied customer.

Ray


----------

