# CPR Well Hole Car



## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Being as I made a mistake in responding to an old post by Dr.G regarding a hopper car he was building, I thought I had better start one of my own threads on a project that's gone for far too long and needs to get completed.
This is a CPR Well Hole Car that I started a couple of years ago and has essentially been a fill-in job when I've got stuck with other projects.









This photograph is posted on the internet, but I don't know who the photographer is to give credit.









This is the layout of the primary parts.
These cars had open bottoms with an overall car length of 36'9" I don't know what the well opening dimensions were so I'm taking a guess based on photographs. The cars were built in 1921 and retired in 1983. Not sure if mine will last that long!!
More to come.
Cheers.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Well Harvey, aren't you in for a "hole" lot of fun with this build then. lol


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Harvey,
CP seem to have called them Steel Pit Flat Cars.
The 'pit' was 6' 0" wide and 18' 1" long.
Did you want a drawing???
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi David, Thanks for the offer, but I'm really too far into it now to make changes, as you'll see. In my dimensional guessing I ended up with 2.3" wide instead of 2.482 and 7.06" long instead of 7.4". I hope I can be forgiven.
The photograph I posted without the credit was by a Mr. Jurgen Kleylein. 
These are some more photo's.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Harvey,
Sorry but you'll have to start again!!!!
VERY nice modelling.
Do you have the book - Canadian Pacific Color Guide etc - Vol 2?
Three nice photos on a page there - with dimensions, so you probably don't have it.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi David, I guess not. I do have the first one by John Riddell, which I might add is excellent. As you can see I'm too far along and I'm definitely not starting again. This thing is a rivet counters dream come true, other than the bolsters I'm just about done with rivets. Now I'm putting the bolts on the deck and I'll be guessing at the hold down slots. I'll try to get a copy of volume two of the guide before I do much more to this project.
I have lots of other stuff to keep me busy in the mean time.
Thanks for your response.
Cheers.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Looks great Harvey!

What kind of rivets are those? Tichy Train Group?


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting build. I'm curious about the prototype... any photos of a loaded car?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Wow! I'll echo the question about the rivets. What are you using, and how are you securing them? (And how long do you think you'll be in therapy after placing them all?) 

Later,

K


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Eric, Burl, Kevin,
The rivets I used inside the well are brass Billing Boats 1/16" rivets but alas no longer made. They kept the same numbering on some slightly larger rivets, but not the same I'm afraid. All the rest are Tichy Train Group 0.060" and 0.070" on the bolsters. On the underside of the top angles are nut bolt and washers, the top just the bolt heads, again Tichy. To place the bolt heads on the top deck I have to drill into the nut bolt and washer insert to give me a location hole....lots of fun. I can only do a few at the time due to eye strain and other things that apparently are far more important!! It seems a mans work in a woman's house is never done.
Burl, no I've never seen a photo of one of these cars loaded, so if anyone has one please post it and let us all have a look. They were used for moving bridge sections and as I already have three cars loaded with bridge sections this one may end up with the same kind load.
Thanks for your comments, I'll post more as time permits.
Cheers.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Looks good, captures the look of the prototype quite well.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Harvey

I am guessing from the dimensions and the use of what appears to be a Kadee 906 coupler, that your nominal scale for the car is 1:29.

Great work. I will NOT count the rivets.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Jim, yes the couplers are #906 and the build is in 1:29 scale. I did manage to get some dimensional info off the internet and now David Leech has provided me with much more information. I'll keep hacking away and see where I end up. Hopefully it won't deviate too far from the prototype.
Cheers.


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## twolfe (Mar 3, 2008)

Looking real good Harvey, can't wait to see the finished product.

_______
Terry


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

This is an update on some progress. The bolster rivets are Tichy Train Group 0.070" rivets.
The air tanks are machined from 3/4" acrylic rods with styrene rings attached at the centre. Nuts bolts and washers are again Tichy's. 




























I had to change the end of the decking after getting better photographs showing this detail. I didn't know they were wooden boards attached to the deck. The fastener details are all Tichy Train Group, underside of top deck are #8080 hex nut and washer, top of deck are #8083 (large) hex bolt head and #8085 for the small hex bolt head. the rivets are 0.060" #8077.










As can be seen I also changed the end beams, there is still quite a bit of work to do in this area.
Cheers.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Great detail work Harvey.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Thanks for your comments Scott,
I now have to build two AB Valves for this car and I also have to build two more for another project. These well cars had Ureco drop shaft hand brakes and while I've seen photographs of them in the up and dropped position, I don't know how the drive mechanism worked. There will also be quite a bit of plumbing to do when I get to that stage.
To maintain sanity I'm applying decals to tank cars, which have also sat on the shelf for too long.
A question for you please, do the H class cars still run out to Glenelg? I know that there are now several new cars but I didn't know if any of the H class have survived.
Cheers.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Yes mate, 4 of the H class were kept and are still running on the rails. A number were donated to various musuems, and there's one in a public park in Glenelg with a shelter over it. 

Quite a few private parties were keen on purchasing one. A lot of people loved those trams, they sure did have a certain charm about them. No-one wanted to see them dumped or scrapped. If money was no object I'd bought one or two myself.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

G'day mate thanks for the update.
I know it's a little off topic, but for those who don't know this is a H Class tram.










Cheers.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Harvey, that is sure an old pic. Should see Victoria Square now after the redevelopment.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Were you there for the Tour Down Under? Judging by the fence to the left of where you're standing.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Scott, No not a tour, we've been down to that neck of the woods a few times and thoroughly enjoyed every visit. Last time was 2011.
Cheers.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

I've been doing a little more on this well car. The AB Valves proved to be a bit time consuming with this car having two and as I also need two for two other cars I'm building I thought I may as well build all four at the same time. Each one has 24 parts to it.
As you can see for the piping I used 3/64" brass and 1/16' aluminum, tube for the straights and solid for the curves. Although I put the brake wheels on with the ratchets I'm still not sure how the Ureko brake arrangement worked.
More to come. 



















The air transfer pipe on the side is not in its final position yet. The hold down openings will have flaps over them, however on the prototype the covers took quite a beating and were often bent or broken.



















The eyelet on the coupler is for the lifting link arm which I haven't made yet.
Cheers


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Harvey.. again... darn nice.. incredible workmanship buddy!!

SD


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## jokensa (Dec 4, 2014)

wow!


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

A little update on this car build. I've now positioned the air transfer pipe and installed the two take offs. 
The hold down hatch safety covers are well and truly ripped apart or completely missing on the prototype, I've tried to replicate this and after painting they look not too bad. No pictures yet of the painting.
The grab handles and coupler release are installed, but the glad hands are in process and I hope to have these installed soon.
Cheers.



























I should add that before I painted the car I pushed a small piece of foam into the holes where I didn't have a good access for painting, dripped some paint into the hole and using a piece of brass rod with a hook on the end, wiped the foam all around before pulling it out, it seems to have covered most of the internal areas.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

AhHa! A new painting technique to steal. Thanks Harvey!

The car is looking wonderful.

Best,
David Meashey


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

These are a couple of pictures of the Pit car so far. Now painted and decals from Stan Cedarleaf applied, thanks Stan. I will do a little more weathering but that will have to wait for a while.























































Cheers.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Very nice Harvey.
An excellent piece of modelling.
What next?????
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi David,
First let me say thank you for your help on this project. 
I would also like to say that I have since straightened the hand brake staffs. They looked worse in the photo's than they did on the table.
Next project/s is the three GP9's I'm working on, two CPR and one NAR. The NAR is a replacement for the NAR 203 I built a while ago, I got the roof fans wrong so that one will become 209 and the new one 203.
I'll do a post on these when I get a little further along.
Thanks again.
Cheers.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Another great looking build Harvey. Looking forward to more GP9s, your last ones were spectacular. 

Chris


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Wow now that is modeling taken to the next level. Great job
Dennis


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Chris, Hi Dennis,
Thanks for your comments on this build. I've done a little weathering and now its parked for the winter. I've cleared the workshop so I can get some GP9's in there and take steps to get them out of the basement. Hopefully I can get these operable by next summer.
Cheers.


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