# Oooops....errr.....UPS



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

18+ years I have been shipping locomotives by UPS and USPS.
Minor stuff when they play football with the box, but this last one via UPS is, in fact, the last I will ship that way.
They almost always go in the factory die-cut Styrofoam box, in the inner box, packing and an outer box.

I got 4 units in one BIG box, via UPS, some damage, fixable.
Cut the box in half (same size as original Bachmann outer box), re-packed a 2-8-0 and sent it back.

They A) broke the headlight bracket clean off, with headlight attached (and, yes, it had the nose piece packing installed), B) knocked the stack off, C) knocked every window out of the cab, and D) broke the gears in the gearbox.

Final insult, insured for $1500, and the SOB's denied the claim.
Seems they don't think a factory-cut Styrofoam box, that came from China to Philly, to the distributor, to the dealer, to the customer, to me, with no damage, somehow was not adequate for the job of shipping it back to the customer.

No more.

Think twice...they are doing apparently everything they can to deny claims...paying for insurance does nothing.

Cost $91+ to ship it, took 9 days to get there.
Next unit to the same customer went USPS, no outer box, insured, NOT Priority, cost $25+ and got there in three days, with no damage.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Noticed some other dealers not using UPS either. Same results.







. Later RJD


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## dtetreault (Jan 23, 2008)

I just went through the same thing with UPS. Shipped a USA Trains PA-1 in the original packaging and shipping box. It arrived with the front truck smashed. UPS denied the insurance claim and sent the item back to me without asking and without refund of shipping. I will NEVER ship via UPS again!!!! 
Dennis


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Add to that the outrageous brokerage fees they charge to ship to Canada so now I avoid using UPS like the plague. USPS has been great. 

Keith


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Keith, a hobby-shop owner in Canada once told me he had problems with LOOTING from boxes shipped by UPS between the US and Canada. 

I sent some LGB in the states by DHL before they gave up on the USDM and only do international. Cheap and great service, but apparently it was not enough....


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Aaaaaaaahhh!!!!!!!! 
Private enterprise. Dontcha just love it.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Once had a $1200 model engine arrive at the customer's destroyed, with TIRE TRACKS on the box, and UPS insurance tried to say it was "packed incorrectly" They eventually (something like 6 months later) offered to settle for 2/3 that, and I accepted rather than have to go to court. 

Years ago I talked to a guy who worked for UPS during Christmas rush for about a week one year. He claims they were using the big boxes with computer monitors in as backstops while the THREW the smaller packages out of the airline bins into the trucks. The attitude was "They're insured! So what?" He said he reported it to the management, and got a 'Services no longer needed" slip in his pay envelope for his trouble. 

As for insurance... allegedly the USPS pays on a bit over 1/3 of large claims, and the private shippers are MUCH worse. 

Honestly? UPS really doesn't WANT residential traffic. B to B is where they make the money


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I never use UPS because when I was into comic books, before trains. I won a Giant Size X-Men for $300, UPS lost it and tried to give me hassle about it!
After fighting with them I recieved my $300 ins money.

I pay $1000 for insurance and the item is worth $100, I still payed for $1000 worth of insurance, that is what I want back!!! What part of that don't they understand????? THEY lost it!!!

I have always shipped Fed Ex and have NEVER had an issue with lost OR damaged items! That is not to say everyone is a lucky as I have been with Fed Ex!

Anyone remember Ace Ventura scene with him immitating a Fed Ex or a like colored outfit company...sure seemed real life from the stories I have heard!

Bubba


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

TPosted By Madstang on 04 Feb 2011 04:31 PM 
I never use UPS because when I was into comic books, before trains. I won a Giant Size X-Men for $300, UPS lost it and tried to give me hassle about it!
After fighting with them I recieved my $300 ins money.

I pay $1000 for insurance and the item is worth $100, I still payed for $1000 worth of insurance, that is what I want back!!! What part of that don't they understand????? THEY lost it!!!

I have always shipped Fed Ex and have NEVER had an issue with lost OR damaged items! That is not to say everyone is a lucky as I have been with Fed Ex!

Anyone remember Ace Ventura scene with him immitating a Fed Ex or a like colored outfit company...sure seemed real life from the stories I have heard!

Bubba

Thats were i know you from ???????????

Your Super Bubba from the comic books................

Able to leap tall Trains in a single bound. 


You were my Hero back in the day..........









I knew there was a reason Marty liked you............


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I haven't had any problems with UPS in receiving packages but I have heard of guys who have. I like to ship via USPS. Last year I had an antique Buddy L fire engine to ship it was long and heavy and going to Oregon. I brought it to the UPS store and was shocked at the price to have them wrap it up and ship was $95 !!! I took it back wrapped it myself and shipped for $30 with USPS. I have used the post office to ship everything from then on, they offer insurance, confirmation and usually 3 different prices to get your package there plus you can buy boxes and as they say if it fits it ships. Not bad


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to add my 2 cents
Quite using UPS a number of years ago after some hassels with claims and lost items.
USPO is the only way to ship for reasons just stated, plus they have never lost or broke anything, yet. 
I shudder ever time I order something and they tell me UPS is the only available option.
Rick


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

I had an item ship in December from LA to the East coast via USPS. It was not insured and sat on the tarmac in 3 feet of rain waiting for an air flight. A week later the water was still running out. They told me the package was not adequate. "It should have been waterproof." BUT UPS is even worse ... they ran into my workshop. SHIP BY TRAINS


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I worked at UPS as a truck packer for Christmas, my first day there was the last day i shipped anything with them. Then i worked for Fed Ex and it was only mildly better. The nice part about Fed Ex is that home delivery is a seperate division and has a lot less volume of boxes to deal with so not as much stuff got thrown, smashed, walked on and run over, unlike UPS. At UPS when the building would get full we would walk on the stacks of boxes that were on the floor. When the conveyer would clog up, boxes would back up and start falling off the edges and the conveyer was at least 10' off the ground. Then you have to deal with the drivers who think they are in a racecar. The packages are not secured on the shelves so any hard turns, starts or stops would send stuff shifting and rolling about. To be honest it's a miracle they don't destroy more stuff.......


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

On USPS always ship priority as they are handled less, and are not mingled with 100lbs. or less like parcel post, and or first class. This according to my Postmaster here. I have shipped over prolly 300 pkgs with USPS I insure em, and never a problem knock on wood. I also have never had a problem with receiving pkgs from UPS either or Fed Ex. Fed Ex with about 2-3 pkgs they would just leave and not knock on the door which irritated me find the pkg sitting on my front porch. We have some five finger discount people who work the neighborhood, and also come down from the larger near by city. So leaving on porch is not a good idea. NOW I find out have two pkgs coming and have had two previously that are shipping by UPS and Fred Ex, but they have this new thingy, where depending on what it is the person I ordered from a internet based co. and or retailer, they get a break on shipping, and although it says UPS/Fred EX it ends up bulk shipping into my town and delivered by them to the post office here where then my Postmaster then gives it to me. He's not liking it cause the retailer/web store or whatever gets a break on shipping, it ends up with him in the P.O. and he then distributes it to us in our boxes or pick up,and they the P.O. doesn't make anything unless they get some portion of it from UPS or Fred Ex, unknown to me and my postmaster who wasn't sure on the issue. Progress Regal 

p.s. Bubba just cause you insure a pkg for $1000 when in reality its only worth whatever which is way less, or somewhat less,you only get what the item is worth that they deem, or you prove its value!! So never insure for anything more than the value of the item, considering used, new, or whatever!!!!!! 








Oh and Yeah, good thing me and Nicky have the same driver, we put up with a lot from her!!!!!! She seems nice anyway's!!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

This is funny. My old boss used to order special coffee cartridges for his special coffee pot. Basically, the thing was "wired" and plumbed into his counter and water supply, and you popped in a cartridge that had the coffee measured, with filters. You could also mix and match different flavored coffees or even hot chocolate. Anyway, they would leave them on his front porch while he was at work. For some reason, he didn't like that, so he complained about them being left out in the open. He had tried having them delivered to his work address, but it was kind of a hassle getting them back out (had to have a signed release and check out with the guard when leaving the facility.) 

So, the UPS guy, not wanting to leave them out front... Threw them over the fence into the back yard and left a note on the front door. 

Did I mention his great big German Shepherd mix 11 month old puppy? 

Yeah. Apparently the pupply liked the hot chocolate... 

Robert


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

This thread makes me almost glad to be a postal subcontractor. 

I will admit to being less than perfect at times. Some of the people on the route like me, some are understanding ('so and so moved out last year' or I'll put an item or two one box down from where its supposed to go - some of that stuff 'sticks together' and escapes notice), but a few...had the one gal raise cain about her package I supposedly lost in the runnup to christmas. Turns out it was a foriegn express, which I never even saw; with those I'm just handed a slip which tells them to pick it up at the post office. Somehow she either didn't get or lost her slip, which caused problems. Postmaster spent a lot of time on the phone tracking that one down.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By blueregal on 04 Feb 2011 07:40 PM 
On USPS always ship priority as they are handled less, and are not mingled with 100lbs. or less like parcel post, and or first class. This according to my Postmaster here. I have shipped over prolly 300 pkgs with USPS I insure em, and never a problem knock on wood. I also have never had a problem with receiving pkgs from UPS either or Fed Ex. Fed Ex with about 2-3 pkgs they would just leave and not knock on the door which irritated me find the pkg sitting on my front porch. We have some five finger discount people who work the neighborhood, and also come down from the larger near by city. So leaving on porch is not a good idea. NOW I find out have two pkgs coming and have had two previously that are shipping by UPS and Fred Ex, but they have this new thingy, where depending on what it is the person I ordered from a internet based co. and or retailer, they get a break on shipping, and although it says UPS/Fred EX it ends up bulk shipping into my town and delivered by them to the post office here where then my Postmaster then gives it to me. He's not liking it cause the retailer/web store or whatever gets a break on shipping, it ends up with him in the P.O. and he then distributes it to us in our boxes or pick up,and they the P.O. doesn't make anything unless they get some portion of it from UPS or Fred Ex, unknown to me and my postmaster who wasn't sure on the issue. Progress Regal 

p.s. Bubba just cause you insure a pkg for $1000 when in reality its only worth whatever which is way less, or somewhat less,you only get what the item is worth that they deem, or you prove its value!! So never insure for anything more than the value of the item, considering used, new, or whatever!!!!!! 








Oh and Yeah, good thing me and Nicky have the same driver, we put up with a lot from her!!!!!! She seems nice anyway's!!





Used just as an example, but it does bring up a point..what say it is an engine that cannot be replaced how would you prove it? And your correct they will pay only what it is worth with proof..
So if you do not have reciets how could it be proved? 

Bubba


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

After using UPS for two years in Dallas and ten years in Las Vegas, the damages started to get stupid. I only insure for loss, in the case of damage I am the one who will fix the unit. 

I noticed an ad by UPS declaring the capacity of their new distribution tool. A long conveyor carries the packages to the center of a large rotating disc where the packages drop (what looked like 6 to 10 feet) on to the disc as the disc turn the packages slid to the outside of the disc. That drop was killing me to the point almost every package I had shipped had to b returned for repair. 

I switched to Fedex before coming to Phoenix. Have had little damage with Fedex. 

Barry - BBT


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Shipping with any of these guys is a crap-shoot at best, I could sit here and tell U horror stories about UPS, USPS, Fed-Ex, 
an a few of the lesser knowns too... But, believe it or not, overall I've had the best luck with the USPS, especially when 
shipping overseas...
Paul R...


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

USPS Priority Air Mail packages are anything but when shipped out of the USA. 
3 - 4 weeks is not unusual. 
The only really fast way is EMS. Express Mail Service. Claim 3-5 days. Usually about right.. 

No matter. USPS is much less expensive than UPS or Fed Ex. Perfectly adequate safety record too.


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## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Notice this young delvery person is carrying the package with the arrows on the box pointing up.

Seriously, over the past 2 years or so the wife and i have been keeping a running tally on boxes received by shippers; of the 15 received via UPS 14 have been crushed, torn, mangled or otherwise distorted in some fasion. For one box we received we were amazed te contents stayed inside. Tally with UPS or FedEx, some 20 boxes all in pristine cndition.

On second thought by UPS delivery person has never looked like that.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

I work at a store that ships ups packages. It is almost inpossible to collect on a claim from ups. People will insure a item that is worth $100.00 for $500.00 and expect to make $400.00 on the claim it will never happen.ups is horrible to collect from if you ever read thier package requirements you will see what i mean. Ups does not pay out on very many claims. Save your money.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

I have shipped and received many hundreds of train items via UPS over the years, and have had no problems even worth mentioning. Some of you guys must walk around with a big black cloud hanging over your heads.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I ship exclusively USPS, the Post Office is close to home, an the Post Office near work is open 24/7, even for package shipping. 

My big issue at UPS is they give them like 40 seconds for a residential delivery - so they sneak up, put the claim ticket on the door, and run back to the truck and take off if it needs a signature. I've caught them doing that quite often, even once (believe it or not) when I was in the garage with the door open. Had to chase the guy to the truck to get my package. 

Last several packages I've received have come USPS - and in good enough condition that they look like they weren't shipped at all. 

Methinks UPS is trying to be too "efficient..." 

Robert


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## Joe Hall (Jan 3, 2008)

Some may have read this account in "Steam In The Garden" where it was published along with a review that I wrote a few month ago. 

I was awaiting the delivery of a K-36 but did not know exactly what day it would come. I was seated on my couch, 3 feet from the front door when the doorbell rang. I got up immediately and went to the door where I could see no one. I turned around and started walking toward the back door when I heard "CRASH". I ran the rest of the way to the back and looked out to see the huge case lying on my side of the 6 foot fence which had not been opened. 

The UPS guy had hurried around back, arrived at the back gate and simply heaved the box (all 70 lbs. of it) over my fence and then had run back to the truck and zoomed off! Clearly their (UPS) business model has changed over the years to one of "Speed is the only issue!". When I'm not home, boxes are simplly left on my front porch in full view of the street as was my latest purchase of a laptop. 

It's good to hear so many chime in on this. 

Joe


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Allan W. Miller on 05 Feb 2011 01:11 PM 
I have shipped and received many hundreds of train items via UPS over the years, and have had no problems even worth mentioning. Some of you guys must walk around with a big black cloud hanging over your heads. 
No, over their stacks


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

I never had a problem with UPS either shipping or receving. Now USPS that's another story. Boxes ripped wide open when delivered to destination including one box where the box within the box was damaged and the item broken. USPS was NOT going to honor the insurance until they were told by the person I shipped it to that he was going to call alll the local stations to make a complain zbout them. 
I have had both USPS and UPS just leave notes about a delivery needed to be made. UPS was the easiest to work with.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have come home from work to find the neighborhood kids inspecting a LARGE package left on my porch by UPS (I have wondered what would have happened if I had worked late that night). The package was supposed to been "Signature Required" for delivery.

Just recently I made a very large cash withdrawal from my Money Market funds and it was issued as a check, sent via Fed Ex for 2nd day AFTERNOON delivery (very specifically AFTERNOON!). At 9:00 AM I heard my BACK DOOR doorbell ring. As I went to the back, I heard a very distinctive sound of a van door closing near the front of my house. When I got to the back door there was a note that Fed Ex had attempted delivery and would try again the next day. This was cash that was needed by a relative in an emergency. I ran to the front door and saw the truck pulling out of my driveway and I gave chase down the street but could not catch up (I walk with a cane!). No amount of yelling or waiving could attact the driver's attention. I called the number on the "missed delivery" slip and after several tries to get past the voice response computer system I finally got a real human. After I explained the situatuion the lady said she would attempt to contact the driver and call me back. She called back in about 10 minutes and said she had given my number to the driver and he would call me to arrange something. He called about 20 minutes later and said he would not be back in town until tomorrow. I pressed the issue of it being delivered TODAY. He then offered to meet me in the next town east if I could get there before he got done with his rural deliveries in the area. I drove 25 miles to get my check that I had PAID EXTRA to have delivered to my house that AFTERNOON.

I wish the old joke about the UPS and Fed Ex merger would come true... because I am certainly "FED UP" with their services.

I will now always press for USPS service!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

UPS is a member of the BBB in Atlanta where they hold an A+ rating. I've heard (and read), and that if you don't get the correct answer, file a complaint (well over 3300 on file), and they roll over pretty quickly to prevent having a bad rating. 

Robert


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

More UoooPS.... 
Had a 4 day weekend show to do in NY. Supplier was in Alexandria Bay and only ships Tuesdays and Fridays, show was at Canandaigua, outside Rochester and we had to be there Wednesday..... package got as far as Rochester on Thursday before being somehow put on a truck to BUFFALO... Aaaaaand the woman on the phone couldn't seem to understand why I wouldn't need it AT ALL if it they attempted to deliver it to that address the following Monday -- after the show was over and we had left the state.......AND had the nerve to ask for additional money to re-direct it to our house. I should pay for their screw up? Maybe that's only in New York?


Got an online quote this past December on a package to Cali for $17... Took it to the drop off center at Staples. Guy says "That will be $67." Um no, it isn't. "Well maybe you mis-measured or your scale is off?" No, I didn't. Trying to gouge folks because of the holidays is illegal isn't it? Called UPS, "The service centers are independent and can charge whatever they want." Yeah sure..... In other words kiss off.


Darn near got ourselfs killt trying to avoid a brown truck that pulled right out in front of us in September of 2009, got the truck # by following him. Called UPS on the cell phone less than 5 minutes after the near miss...... they called back later, "The driver denies being in the vicinity at the time you stated the incident occurred..." Yeah sure, we just made it all up, and spent 10 minutes on perma-hold just for jollies... Horsefeathers! Just pull his electronic delivery records and verify it.


Had a time sensitive package sit on the dock 10 miles from our house for over a week due to the last driver's strike... and were not even allowed to pick it up.

Oh, and three times I was in the front room when they 'attempted' to deliver a package, but they never knocked. Then one day I happened to be standing by the front door and saw the truck pull up, the driver get out with a SLIP, not the package, stick it on the door and start to leave... I let him get about 2 steps away before I opened the door. And STILL had to pretty much yell to get him to stop... "Oh, you're HOME?" he said..... yup. If I have to chase your butt again, I'm going to file a complaint! After that he knocked, at least at our house. 


If you HAVEN'T had trouble, yet, then count your blessings. Don't make snide comments about black clouds. That's just tempting fate.


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

*Funny I once posted a few years ago complaining about UP(C)S United Package "Crushing" Service. 
Back then, about half of the replies SIDED with UPS and said they had great service with them. The last time I used them about 7 or 8 years ago, I was shipping a bunch of freight cars out to CA. I used a large double thickness shipping box with all the cars in their original boxes and packing, bubble wrapped and styro peanuts keeping the cars in the center of the box. I was going to insure the box and the counter person at UPS insisted on checking how the box was packed. She opened the box and unpacked it, then oking the packing, she repacked it and when ringing it up, she had charged me for them to pack the box !!! I made a scene and demanded a manager and gave them the 3rd degree and said I would NEVER use them again. Sevice with the US postal system has been faster and cheaper then united package crushing service. For larger, heavier things, I use Fed Ex ground. They do a great job too  Of packages I've received, via UPS, about 1/2 of them have been crushed or damaged in some way. Of the packages I've sent out USPS or Fed Ex, only 2 in about 170 have had some kind of damage. Now that's a **** of alot better than the brown(nose) folks. And I have shipped and received from here in the states to Norway, Germany and as far west as Down under (Aus) and have had great service with USPS and Fed Ex. Nope, no more brown shipping Nazis for me !!!! 

Rocky 

Oh yeah, I have pictures to back up what I've said about packages that the brown shirts have dropped off here damaged. *


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Rocky, maybe they were just easier to defend before a rate increase AND a fuel surcharge that never went away, even when fuel prices dropped again? At the moment they are neither the best, NOR the least expensive choice!


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I'm just glad that the whiners have found alternate sources for delivering their choo-choos. There are several to choose from, so long as you select dealers who will use your favorite alternative--some do and some don't. 

Personally, I'll happily stick with UPS since, over many years, the only "lost" shipments I ever had were handled by FedEx and the only damaged shipments I've received came via the Postal Service. Even then, I was able to get things straightened out to my satisfaction without making a big fuss over it. Not exactly a life-and-death matter in the grand scheme of things.


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

Moral of story:
Don't bother paying for the insurance. You won't collect.
It's just another source of income for a shipper.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I stopped using them after getting hit with that stupid "Fuel Surcharge" which didnt show up anywhere on their online "shipping calculator" I didnt find out about it until I already recieved payment based on their own online calculator and took the package for drop off, I was furius, that surcharge ate what they guy payed for it so I was essentially giving to him but since he already paid I had no choice but to ship. I asked what use was their online services if it wasnt up to date? How was I supposed to calculate total shipping charges? They said "Bring it in to the store or call us up with the weight and size and destination" well considering I work and that I usually package weighing and do the shipping inquiries in the evenings after they have closed that wasnt very helpful at all. I use USPS because their online calculator has always been accurate, and when they say it will get there it always does, had a large box go Parcel Post, emailed the buyer and told him it would be their in 9-10 days, he emailed me 3 days later saying it arrived! Great service, you can't argue with it.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Allan W. Miller on 06 Feb 2011 03:57 AM 
Well, I'm just glad that the whiners have found alternate sources for delivering their choo-choos. There are several to choose from, so long as you select dealers who will use your favorite alternative--some do and some don't. 

Personally, I'll happily stick with UPS since, over many years, the only "lost" shipments I ever had were handled by FedEx and the only damaged shipments I've received came via the Postal Service. Even then, I was able to get things straightened out to my satisfaction without making a big fuss over it. Not exactly a life-and-death matter in the grand scheme of things. 

Granted, we are discussing the shipment of TOYS. But when it is a $4000 toy, the term "Choo-Choo" is no longer applicable... it is a significant expenditure of hard earned cash. I take umbrage at the term "whiner" when anyone relates losses such as described here, whether it be cash out of pocket because of mishandling of the shipment, or a significant disruption to life because a delivery company fails to meet the terms of the delivery contract.

If the shennigans listed here are indicative of how these shippers treat a "toy" is there any evidence that they are doing anything different to the other things they are delivering? How much better do they handle say, a piece of medical equipment? Do they not arbitrarily break an AFTERNOON delivery CONTRACT if it is for someone other than a home delivery?

Yes, there are some dealers/vendors that only use certain shippers, and yes, I have canceled a purchase when they would not use one that was acceptable to me.

If you have not had a problem with anything shipped by, or to, you, then you should stick with the companies that serve your purpose well. But when (not IF) you get bit big time, don't be a whiner yourself.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Hopefully I'll be stating something that everyone is already aware of, but on the outside chance there may be someone that isn't aware.

You are aware that if you are using a "UPS Store" to ship your items, that you are not dealing with UPS directly, but an independently owned and operated franchise, and as such they are the shipper and not you, just as with any other Pack-&-Ship business. Which in turn means that you can't file for an insurance claim.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I use to by cowboy boots from a guy in El Paso TX. Every time I orderd a pair of boots they would have to hand carry the package down to the UPS building and ship it by by hand. The UPS system could not find New River AZ there for they could not ship it from thier place of business. 

I have not had that much trouble with UPS. I can only remember once or twice I had to fix something and it was minor 

JJ


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

For years UPS would deliver to my door, then one day a rookie driver refused to drive my hill, now all UPS packages are sent to USPS and my mailbox, a mile from my home! 

John


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

You folks must all live in an alternate universe from me. Been having packages dropped at my home here in Burbank for the past 38 years. UPS, Fedex and USPS. NEVER had the problems you folks are having. In fact, my drivers from UPS and Fedex, used to walk down my driveway to my garage while I was machining parts for my steam engine. They could see the garage door was open and personally hand me the packages. I'm not whining about them at all.







The only problem I have is with my drug-addled postman who can't seem to get here the same time everyday.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Factually relating an experience is not 'whining'. Perhaps, since you are in Burbank, they think you are rich enough to really make trouble if they screw up? 

UPS rural delivery drivers and those in working class neighborhoods seem to be the ones that excel best at "semi-service with a snarl" .... They seem to think they are too good to deliver whatever "crap" poorer folks order. Even though those folks paid just as much or more to have it sent.


Then they'll tell you you're not a "real" business if you don't have a building detached from your home with it's own address. I sometimes wondered if sticking a sign on the dog's house would qualify. Either that, or - if I wasn't "a real business" - then why did I have to do all that bloody government paperwork and pay taxes on it for all those years?

Use what works for you. but my, and many other's, experience says UPS could well be the perfect poster child for those who feel "privatization" is NOT the best solution for every problem....


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Rich enough!! You are jumping to a VERY BIG CONCLUSION Mik! AND I don't appreciate it! You don't know me from $hit! Folks in my neighborhood are ALL working class folks. AND WHAT THE **** DOES LIVING IN BURBANK HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING!! Bogus response from you. You really need to go back and re-read my post above. I NEVER called anyone a "whiner". Mik, take note of the "wink and an eye" emoticon. I was not going to complain or whine about my delivery service. PERIOD. It seems that if someone has a "different point of view, ALL **** breaks loose! Your response is EXACTLY what Greg Elmassian is complaing about in his new thread. People got to lighten-up around here.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By dtetreault on 04 Feb 2011 01:43 PM 
I just went through the same thing with UPS. Shipped a USA Trains PA-1 in the original packaging and shipping box. It arrived with the front truck smashed. UPS denied the insurance claim and sent the item back to me without asking and without refund of shipping. I will NEVER ship via UPS again!!!! 
Dennis 

I was the one on the recieving end of this mess. The box was pristine. Well as pristine as any shipping box is. No crushed corners or anything. As I got it opened the tissue paper was pretty "box rubbed" but the paint job was pretty good still. Took it out and investigated further to find plastic pieces falling from the front truck. Hmm? Flip it over to find the floppy section pretty much crushed. The cardboard inserts the keep the truck "stable"were completly bent and simply ineffective for the job at hand. Emailed Dennis and he filed a claim with UPS. They were supposed to call me for inspection. Rather the driver showed up while I was changing clothes from work. I'd not re-packaged it, simply intending to get the replacement parts under warranty from USAT. He assured me it was simply going to the local UPS terminal for inspection and did not need to be re-packaged. Gave me a slip of paper as a reciept. A few days pass & I get an email that the "claim was denied". Ok I call the 800 number. Yup "insufficient" packaging was the cause. Ok send me back the train & I will call teh manufacturer for repair parts. Nope, cannot do that, it's going back to the shipper. Really? It was not boxed up when I gave it to the driver who assured me I'd get it back in a few days. I've got a "piece of paper that says so" No sorry sir but it is being returned to the shipper. She couldn't even tell me how to get my moeny back. Thankfully Dennis is an honest guy and he refunded my money, but I shudder to think what condition the loco was in when he got it back? GRrrrr. I really wanted one of those.

Chas


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 06 Feb 2011 12:03 PM 







You folks must all live in an alternate universe from me. Been having packages dropped at my home here in Burbank for the past 38 years. UPS, Fedex and USPS. NEVER had the problems you folks are having. In fact, my drivers from UPS and Fedex, used to walk down my driveway to my garage while I was machining parts for my steam engine. They could see the garage door was open and personally hand me the packages. I'm not whining about them at all.







The only problem I have is with my drug-addled postman who can't seem to get here the same time everyday. 

I don't have any issue with my driver.
I've know Ken for 15-20 years, when I used to have my auto repair shop, I worked on his cars.
THAT is not the issue.
At least for me.
Somewhere in-transit, this big box was dropped fairly flat on it's end from a substantial height.
Two teeth snapped clean off one of the gears, in addition to the rest.

UPS's claim that it was "improperly packaged", when it's in the same die-cut factory container it came from China in, does not hold any credence.

All they do is take in insurance money, and do everything they can to deny the claim.

Our Fed-Up driver is something else.
My wife and I can be sitting in the front room talking and hear a "BANG!", look out to see the Fed-Up truck driving away, and a package laying on the porch where they threw it.

Three times in the last 30 days.

I dislike Fed-Up, as over the years I have had two "absolutely must be there tomorrow" overnights, left on a Thursday, got here on a Monday.

Their reply?
Oh, it's the overnight WE count as overnight........


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I think toc hit the nail on the head, granted, the driver cannot help if in Buffalo or Louisville the box was run over by a forklift, but a LOT of it comes to your local driver. 

With FedEx, UPS and USPS I have had good ones, and (FedEx truck stuck in front yard, UPS leaving box at side of house and getting rained on, and a USPS driver leaving a box in a TRASH CAN) bad ones too.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry Gary. Yes Burbank is a big place. With movie stars at one end and, it seems, working class at the other. The "whine" term was used by MORE folks than you. I think maybe you overreacted a bit and took personally what was made as a general statement of fact. Either that, or something got lost in translation, because I was NOT specifically referring to your post. If it sounded that way, I'm sorry.


Objecting to bad service doth not make you a whiner nor a basher. Enjoying good service does not make you a shill. I'm not real sure what enjoying bad service makes you...... UPS offered pretty good service at a fair rate once upon a time. It's been MY experience that in the last decade-and-a-half they've gotten away from both as they grew. And things got significantly WORSE, not better, just before the last driver's strike (about that time) and have mostly stayed that way. 


This comes from getting and sending an average of 3-10 packages per week, from 6 locations that we've lived during that period. Your mileage may well vary. 

In that same time period I had bad ONE MONTH of bad (very bad) experience with the Post Office, which the postal inspectors cured pretty fast - even though the packages were never recovered. The postal insurance eventually paid a little over half the claims. More than UPS has EVER tried to do for me. Again, your mileage may well vary.



When possible any more, I use Priority Mail. Which, while occasionally delivering sub-par service and may cost more, has given me less overall aggravation, less damage, and fewer worries. Again, simply my own experience. I'm sure there are a few worthless postal employees, too. I even worked with some of them the one Christmas I was a casual at the local bulk mail center. They were not actively callous, just overworked (but paid very well for it), bored and sloppy. Mechanization, obsolete ones at that, and bad order equipment still in use because there isn't an alternative, are more responsible than the people for any damage to things sent parcel post. A possible 6 foot drop from chute to cage, or a fall from a jammed belt, yes... folks simply throwing stuff because it takes too long to walk, no.


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Gary Armitstead of
Burbank, CA.

Please say hi for me to your next door neighbours Oprah and Jay Leno!

Seriously, that year round perfect weather must be nice. Maybe paradise weather gets a little boring? You are missing the wonderful life experience of struggling through knee high snow drfits while ice rain whips at your face as you walk home from the city bus stop. 

I wouldn't mind being a little bored!

Still I love the calm and low crime rate of Canadian society. Maybe it is just too cold up here for lazy criminals. I can walk in any area, at any hour, of downtown Ottawa, the capital of Canada, without being assaulted. I may have to yell at a bar drunk to get away from me, but that is it. Try that in Miami or Washington, DC . I don't understand why street crime has always been so serious down in the United States.

Last night, 60 Minutes aired a story re John Goddi. His teenage daughter is unable to get a date as the local teenage boys are too scared to date her! Both amusing and sad.

Please post some info or photos of your live steam club sometime.

Thank you

Norman


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I kinda chuckling here reading this, an Armenian co-worker always calls Burbank the Armenian Brentwood, in that it is a choice destination and does have many very well off neighborhoods in it, but he adds not that any really rich Armenians would'nt think twice about pull up stakes and heading for the real Brentwood when they can afford it.








Dont get too upset Gary, I'm in Pasadena, the* poor* part







but whenever I say where I live they immediatly assume I'm living in the Gamble House or something...









....yeah I wish


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Vic, 

Whatchoo tryin' do!? Pi**me off too! All seriousness aside. GLENDALE is actually the Armenian Brentwood! My wife taught in Glendale for forty-two years. Just retired last June and believe me she doesn't miss it. She taught at a magnet high school there. The Armenian boys (16-17 years old) drove brand new 700 series Beamers and wore more diamonds than my wife WILL EVER own! Actually there is a very nice neighborhood in Burbank (but don't tell Mik. I'm trying to keep it a secret!) and that place is Toluca Lake-clear on the other side of the Valley from us. That's where Bob Hope's home is and Dolores Hope STILL lives there. 

Hey Vic, that's a very nice house you live in there. So did you own it when they filmed Back To The Future III there? It's really funny when those folks back east think that movie stars walk up and down our streets everyday and we have Bentley's and Rolls' in every garage. It's almost like everyone is a Rockefeller in New York, right? 

BTW, Norman I DO see Jay Leno at least once a week here in Burbank driving around one of his collector cars with his car club buddies. He belongs to the local car club here in Burbank and every Friday night is Car Show Night at Bob's Big Boy Drive-in restuarant inToluca Lake. That place is a California Historical site. I used to cruise there when I was in high school. He is there every Friday night with one of his cars to show. His car collection is housed in a huge hangar at Burbank Airport. 

Norman, I was lucky enough to be born here. NO transplant for me. I'm actually a rarity around this here. A native Californian! SNOW!? What the **** is that?!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah right Gary I owned the _garage _ they filmed it in LOL. Glendale? I can beleive that, but thats what my coworker says. Tell me about the teen-pricks in Beemers, though now its Audi's... and I can claim a Leno sighting as well, he was toddeling around Burbank airport in a restored Stanley Steamer! He even returned my wave, nice guy!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

He drives that Stanley Steamer all over the place! I saw him once on San fernando Road by the North-South runway at Burbank Airport. Pulled over with his mechanic working on something. Greasy shirt and jeans. People were waving to him and he was waving back. He is a nice guy. But when I've talked to him, it's always cars he talks about and nothing else! He also has a beautiful red and white, 1956 Buick Roadmaster convertible he drives everywhere! Along with about a hundred others in his collection.


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