# New proposed Locomotive - 1:32 PRR E6s Atlantics 1930s Lined Livery



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

With this being one of the 1:32 locos I always wanted plus a few people recently inquiring about the possibility, it would be good to bring a nice 1:32 locomotive to market after the recently well received 0-4-2 Fairymead and previous Masonbogie.  It will as the others, be a highly detailed model and built from the ground up from original drawings and cards. I also have many hi resolution builders photos along with the original works drawings to make this another great model.  The tender will be the standard 70-P-66 designed for Passenger use but will look equally good hauling freight.


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## csinc (Jun 8, 2008)

I would not be so interested in this. It would be nice to see some more modern steam and from some of the other eastern railroads. B&O and C&O had some nice mid-sized locomotives and they are not so greatly represented. C&O 614 would make for a nice model, or a Reading T-1. Maybe consider some of them for a project as well?

-Adam


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Jay, Every new project is beneficial for the hobby, and this PRR locomotive is a fine example of a new live steamer which could be. There is however an important difference between this and the Mason Bogie project which I proposed here a few years back. The Mason Bogie idea was meant to be a collaborative project of the interested MLS individuals driven by a shared passion to have this particular model implemented by Accucraft, not as a part of anyone's business plan. There is nothing wrong with advertising commercial projects here, as far as I know, it is just different from the Mason Bogie story - which should not be used as a reference in the current context. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

I would be interested in this locomotive which I do find a good choice. The prototype is being restored to working condition, and one should remember that in their later life they often hauled short trains, which makes it one of the rare standard gauge loco that could appeal to the many garden modelers who run short trains. It even hauled short P54 60' cars for those who don't have nice wide radius curves. Too bad it isn't meth fired though. Another interesting development would be that an H8 to H10 consolidation could easely be extracted from it, either by a gifted model builder, or by the manufacturer himself in a later offering. The best news in months to this PRR fan modeling in true scale 1/32!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Jason, 

Why alcohol fired instead of butane? 

Andrew


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Back in 1963, an excellent book about the development of this engine was published (Frederick Westing; Kalmbach) Long out of print, copies still show up at used booksellers. 
The rational behind continued development of the 4-4-2 wheel arrangement after the appearance of Pacifics was to minimize the machinery and weight of high-speed power. In their prime, an E6s handled nine-car expresses on the Pennsy's relatively flat line between Philadelphia and NYC. 
A friend told me of once clocking the E6 powered train he was riding in South Jersey at 105mph. 

Larry


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I probably should keep my mouth shut on this one as my wallet will be, however I applaud this potential offering as being the right size for many people and a beautiful engine to boot! I think the Atlantics were about the best looking engines with their large drivers well displayed and clean lines. 

from a purely sales prospective would butane be more popular as easier to operate? I am starting to like spirit firing but it can be tricky. I had a derailment on my home grown alchy which started the leaves under the wooden trestle on fire...yikes!


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By du-bousquetaire on 12 Apr 2013 01:59 AM 
Too bad it isn't meth fired though. Simon,
It IS Meths fired (alcohol), so you are okay.
Mind you, the final price will be the determining factor. 
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Garratt on 12 Apr 2013 02:15 AM 
Jason, 

Why alcohol fired instead of butane? 

Andrew 
Andrew,
Are you sure that you want to open up this one again?
Some of my thoughts about the 'good' side of alcohol burners.
Easy to add fuel as you can see how much is going in, and no smell either.
Easy to light.
No nozzles to get blocked. 
Nice and quiet burning.
Jason likes alcohol burners?
As I have said before, it seem MOST live steamers either like one of the other.
NOW, what I would suggest is a system where using the same boiler design, you can have either the alcohol tank and burner, OR the gas tank and a rectangular ceramic type burner.
That way every user can be happy and Jason will sell more locomotives.
I really scratch my head as to why Accucraft haven't clued onto this one.
To me, it'a a no brainer, even if the boiler design is a little more complex.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

David, 

No, I didn't want to really open up anything (except for the throttle). 
I've only ever used butane and thought alcohol was old hat. I didn't realize some preferred it and that it had beneficial aspects.
Thanks for the brief.









Andrew


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Although I find this wheel arrangement to be esthetically a bit out of balance, it is a very nice engine. I know people like big engines, but few people have the area to run them, so I think this could be a good engine for the rest.

I prefer alcohol firing (I have two Aster Mikes) and I find them simple to operate... maybe I am just lucky in that respect, but I have found no trick to it. I have a good friend that has many gas fired locos and from watching him I think they are a lot more work, and many of them are noisy, (which I find distracting), and those that are quiet are sometimes difficult to tell if they are still burning... A mirror on a short stick can tell me if my Alcohol has gone out, but some gas fired locos you have to open the smokebox door and get down on your hands and knees to see into the flue and on some dual flue boilers you cannot see both of them and the act of the closing the smokebox door often puts the fire out or draws it into the smokebox.

Yes, a derailment of an alcohol fired loco can be a chance for a conflagration, but keep the area clean of combustibles and there is little chance of that. I still keep a fire extinguisher available when I run, but I have never REALLY needed it... Once when I was visiting another track, it was at ground level and I spilled alcohol during the fueling process and that spill caught fire. If it had occurred on my own property, I probably would have just let it burn a few seconds, but I was concerned about the plant next to where I had my loco sitting (could have been a weed for all I know) so I gave it one split second blast from my CO2 extinguisher and there was no problem. (A chemical extinguisher might have been more of a problem.) I have had some MAJOR derailments, but the small amount of fuel spilt quickly flash burnt and that was the end of it. I have seen more danger when butane has built up in the smoke box and the flame thrower effect has singed eyebrows and the hair on hands and arms.

But safe practices pretty much nullifies those dangers (it just takes a while to learn what those practices are!)

As for keeping the cost down, I know how difficult that is. My own software suffers from "Creeping elegance" and that has busted the budget where I worked more than once. When I buy a new computer I usually pick out the cheapest one I can find and then for just $50 more I can double the memory, and for $50 more I can get the better CPU, and for $50 more I can get the better display card, and for $50 more I can get the extra USB ports, and for $50 more I can get the bigger power supply, and for $50 more I can get the bigger screen monitor, and for $50 more I can get... well, no I can't because now it is out of my price range. So I understand the Aster design engineers saying that for just a few dollars more we can add this trinket and that bling and these features and those "must haves" and some cheap extras that make it so much better and desirable... but the cost is now that of an Aster locomotive.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

I love Atlantics but price would be a big factor in any decision. I like both meths and gas as they both have pluses and minuses. I like Mr. Leach's idea regarding dual fuel as when I run in the winter, gas can be difficult. 
Dave


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Im a narrow guage guy but I have thought about getting a standard guage engine to run at events etc..... The Atlantis is one of my favorite standard guage engines. If he price is right I would consider one, especially since it gives me time to save.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Well Dave and Shawn, 
How about helping Jason out with your views on 'if the price is right'! 
I would think that it would certainly not be less than $3,000. 
My guesstimate would be more like $4,000 - $4,500 range, but I doubt that until plans are drawn up etc., that a target price can be thought of. 
Would you pay $5,000 for this loco? 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Actually David the design for a mixed fired engine exists and I have just the loco to prove that it works, one of Tony Hall Patches designs for converting the Aster K4 to meths (and I know someone who has the NYC Hudson converted also by Tony and I think two people who have the Bavarian S2/6 converted also). And I can say they all steam extremly well. It's basically a Type C return baffle to the gas flues. I don't know if it could work with any gas boiler though, but on those two US Asters they had a large oval flue leading to some fire tubes and it works a charm on meths! What it means is making a gas tank and burner + piping or a meth tank, wick tubes and piping, and of course the baffle, and a blower and valve. 
The E 6 did do heavy express work as M. Green said in it's prime but the philosophy was towards perfect but simple design and this should help keep the price down: No feedwater heater and it's pumps, no power reverse, no stokers, etc. A very big but basic engine. Big is good in 1/32 scale as the bigger the boiler the better (I model French prototype where a light USRA design would be heavy power, I should know) yet a compact design and a very elegant one in full PRR livery. It should stay in the $4000 range. Not more as it is a rather simple and small engine with a big boiler. Sorry I hadn't read the announcement right and thought it would be a gas fired engine. My preference is to meths but I have nothing against gas except the noise perhaps. I even recently enjoyed watching an Accucraft SP F5 2-10-2 doing fine with a light load of a dozen cars at a very realistic moderate pace (40-50 scale mph) and pondered the merits of gas firing over meths were it is often necessary to run too fast just to keep the Stephenson cycle happy.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I'll weigh in ... or is that wade in, as I am a bit out of my depth again ... 

I like the design, and the short wheelbase should appeal to people who need to run tighter radius. I like the era, and the proportions of the locomotive and tender. Since it seems that many steamers of the period prior and into WWII are large, there seems to be a gap in the market for this one. This model's long tender helps it look big, and should give good fuel / water duration. 

My thought is that this model would have higher appeal for two groups: those forced to run a shorter wheelbase, and those who value prototypical realism. Therefore I think the right thing to do is give it a high level of features and detail - there's no sense competing against the beginner options. 

Pricing in line with Aster's BR38 seems okay for a model of the same caliber, maybe somewhat less so the customer gains from the Chinese labor cost. I would personally favor a kit. $4,000 assembled seems market-correct to me, though for that price I would want comprehensive features and scale detail. 

I would want to be able to have a train of reasonable appearance at a similar level of detail and quality available - passenger cars with detailed interiors and illumination, prototypical coupling distance, etc. No coaches which look right and match the locomotive would deter me.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Im in York PA at Cabin Fever but will reply in depth when I get back from the show.


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

My favorite locomotive! I rode behind one of the Long Island Railroad's versions twice a week to and from grammar school. Occasionally a Pennsy K-4s was substituted. The K-4s locos ran in Pennsy livery only; never LIRR. There was a long stop at Jamaica Station to allow the "Dashing Dans" to change trains to the electrified branch lines and to the "long hauls" out to Montauk and Orient points. Passengers passed through the waiting trains to get to the right branch line's consist. All the idling trains raced away at the same time to the east until, one by one, they were "pointed" off in the direction of their destinations. Something like that still goes on every day today except for the gritty man stuff that made for the lure and the lore of the world's largest passenger railroad.
Jamaica Station's platforms are elevated to train height to enable the to and fro of passenger circulation. I did not have to change trains, but I always sat in the first car, sometimes a combine, so that at the Jamaica stop I could spend five minutes walking up and down the locomotive at eyeball level with the fireman and engineer. The sights and sounds and smells were overpowering, and obviously, affected my formation.
Ernie Noa, another Long Island boy, scratch built a 1:32 LIRR live steam Atlantic about five years ago. I admired it running its heart out at Diamondhead, and I have seen videos of it running more recently. It brings back oodles of fond memories to my mind.
I stated on Brittany's first thread about this subject [hijacked?] that I would be willing to part with US$2,500 bucks for a PRR Atlantic in either scale. I know that it's doable because one can easily purchase one of Accucraft's K-4s Pacifics for less than that. I'm just not seeing this little 4-4-2 puppy selling for more gelt unless the production levels are going to be in single digits, or worse yet, the "angel" insists on asterizing the model's design. I vote to KISS design this neat little loco with 80% exterior detail fidelity [10 foot rules apply], single cylinder GR1MRA first Project guts, and dummy cylinders and go-along-for-the-ride valve gear [ala Barrett], and maybe an alcohol fueled variant for David.
Who knows, maybe if the model was "KISS-ed by an Angel" It could be had in the US$1,200 buck range, just say'n.


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

i've said this before and i'll say it again. a 4-4-2 will not be 1/2 the price of a 4-coupled locomotive, but more like 95% of the cost assuming the same amount of detail. other than a few more main rods and a few more drive wheels, there are just as many parts required to complete either and the small increase in parts size would have a negligible effect on the price. understanding this, yes, i would like to see a small wheelbase locomotive. the PRR Atlantic is certainly a popular choice. i might also suggest the PA G5 (4-6-0) which was more of a dual service locomotive. the problem with passenger locomotives is the availability of coaches once the locomotive is available. judging by the past two 4-coupled locomotive issued by Aster, i would assume a similar quality kit released today would be in the $5500 - $6500 range. would i pay this for a well detailed, small live steam locomotive, ...yes.


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## Hugh Napier (Oct 10, 2012)

Great choice of loco! Looking at other locos in the Accucraft range (US and UK) I'd say anywhere in the $3500 - $4000 region would be about right. 

Hugh


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I love Atlantic s but please give us a break on all thes Pennsy loco. It's getting old lets get some new blood in here. How about a C&NW class D Later RJD


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I've just noticed that the post I made after Cabin Fever is not here. SOoooo.... 

The model proposed will be a high detail not a simple basic engine, also planned for having full working valve gear. Because of the fact that a good 80% of the 1:32 crowd prefers meths, it will not be gas fired. I do think that a gas version is possible should there be enough interest, my though is a shared boiler but a ceramic replacement burner. Will not know until the drawings are here as the rear truck is the determining factor is space, same goes for a coal boiler that will be under investigation. I have a target price and until everything is worked out nothing will be firm but I am shooting for under 4k.


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## Hugh Napier (Oct 10, 2012)

With a wide firebox design such as this the innovation of a ceramic burner to give the gas-firing boys a look in makes great sense. The glory of this loco is that it would negotiate reasonably tight curves and allow those with smaller circuits to run it.

Hugh


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Great news from the Importer. it should not be too difficult to make a highly detailed yet reasonably priced model of this fabulous prototype as all the development work that the Pennsy and the boys in Altoona did on this loco was "invisible" on a model: drilled piston rods, lightened rods, motion close attention to cylinder size in relation to boiler and boiler size, length of flues, superheater and the draughting. 

The philosophy of the Pennsy design team of the times was: Perfect the design, but keep the design simple without gadgets: So that means no feedwater heater and its three lost wax castings and piping, no power reverse gear, no stoker, no booster. the only fittings are the air pumps and the turbo generator, as well as the Kiessel bissel and the dolphin trucks. The idea was back then, and it is still quite valuable, less added instruments, means less breakdowns on the road, means less downtime in the shops = savings that make up the economy these instruments provide. Quite the opposit philosophy from that of Chapelon. But the context was different too, here in France Coal was precious, not so in Pennsylvania.


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## Hugh Napier (Oct 10, 2012)

Rule #1 - never put more than one or two innovations on a prototype at a time. Oliver Bulleid failed to appreciate this with his Pacifics in the UK and even more so on the 'Leader' project! 

Hugh


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## ernienoa3 (Nov 23, 2012)

I built the G5 for the LIRR a few years back, and had plans to build the E6. I was undecided to make number 460 or another LIRR engine. I did the G5 since there were three in existence and number 35 and 39 were planned to be brought back to steam. At present Number 39 looks like the most likely restoration. 
The E6 4-4-2 is a perfect engine to model in 1/32. $4000 seems like a good price, and I would have to see what it would look like to consider it. Also if you ran it in the commuter service, the passenger cars were generally short, about 60 feet. Again no one makes the P54 cars that I run. They also had to be scratch built for my G5 engine.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Ernie,

Could you please tell us how you made the passenger cars?


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## ernienoa3 (Nov 23, 2012)

Bruce, I only made 2 of the P54 cars. They were made of brass all just lots of pieces soft soldered together. The under frame was made of ½ plywood. They were a lot of work and I don’t car to do it again, but I have one more to make, a combination baggage passenger car. The LIRR carried a lot of mail during the 30’s, 40’s and into the 50’s. The P54 and the MP54 cars could be seen on the island into the 60’s and 70’s.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Hello Ernie:

The problem I have encountered with brass construction is that when you try to solder some thin strip metal on the brass body, it expands much more than the thicker brass that makes up the body so that when it cools down it creates an irregular wavy line instead of a nice flat and straight one, so I took a tip from the British: and realised that aluminum works very nicely, makes an extremly sturdy joint with epoxy glues (provided it is degreased properly before each gluing) and makes lightweight and sturdy coaches. I have already built quite a few French and US cars this way, one actually fell from under my arm to a hard floor (it was in an SNCF roundhouse) and was fixed in about twenty minutes. I make cars with riveted construction or smooth sides have learned to bend the roofs and used harwood ends where there is a turn under. I adopted this after finding that on quality brass constructed cars such as J & M and Lemaco when they use a long band on a body they glue it rather than solder it for this very reason; so that got rid of any inferiority complex about using epoxy. The other nice thing is that epoxy leaves you some minutes to adjust things. I am presently half way through the construction of a D78 Pennsylvania diner. Making clerestories isn't such a big deal to us who have known La Belle or Walthers kits in the old days. To make the sides and clerestory section use bass wood or poplar type wood (here it's called Samba wood) make a template fix it to a board (with screws from underneath, clamp it and use a well adjusted plane to plane it going in one pas from one end to the other without stoping). for a closed clerestory do the same for the center part, it gets a bit more compicated if you need an open clerestory but can be done also. In this case I used styreen construction. once you have it done to the corect profile make the turn under with a file and then sand it smooth. If you have access to a bellt sander it's even easier but be careful not to take too much off too soon. Making the beading along the clerestory can be done with stripwood and to do the ends look at the method employed for Walthers kits in their catalogue from the sixties or seventies, it's a sinch to scale up.Then use a sealer for sealing the wood sand with finer and finer sand paper and use putty to fill any faults. The good thing about aluminium is it's sturdy yet light, you can add more cars. Sorry but I can't post photos... but you can look me up in the G1MRA newsletter and i can send them to you.
Simon Duhamel


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## ernienoa3 (Nov 23, 2012)

Hello Simon,








I do know what you mean as soldering thin strips of brass is difficult. I think the key is to get it all up to the same temperature or use very low heat locally. The idea of epoxy is excellent. Another material which we can get almost free is tin steel from our solvent gallon cans. Save your old Olive oil cans too. The steel paints better then brass. I have seen the use of aluminum and it does make for a good building material although I have not used it as much as the tin steel and brass.








Let’s hope, Jason’s E 6 engine is a winner. I may still build my own from scratch, as I know what not to do after building the G5.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Hello Ernie--

I just got my G1MRA news letter and I think I saw your engine pictured there. It looks good! have you any more photos to share?


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## ernienoa3 (Nov 23, 2012)

Hi Eric, Here is a link to Mark Horowitz engine gallery 

http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.com/Gallery/GaHome.html 

There are two other British engines that I did at this site. 
And here is a link to the G5 that was in the last issue of G1MRA 

http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.com/Gallery/Gallery18/Ga18.html


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By du-bousquetaire on 27 May 2013 08:07 AM 
Hello Ernie:

The problem I have encountered with brass construction is that when you try to solder some thin strip metal on the brass body, it expands much more than the thicker brass that makes up the body so that when it cools down it creates an irregular wavy line instead of a nice flat and straight one, so I took a tip from the British: and realised that aluminum works very nicely, makes an extremly sturdy joint with epoxy glues (provided it is degreased properly before each gluing) and makes lightweight and sturdy coaches. I have already built quite a few French and US cars this way, one actually fell from under my arm to a hard floor (it was in an SNCF roundhouse) and was fixed in about twenty minutes. I make cars with riveted construction or smooth sides have learned to bend the roofs and used harwood ends where there is a turn under. I adopted this after finding that on quality brass constructed cars such as J & M and Lemaco when they use a long band on a body they glue it rather than solder it for this very reason; so that got rid of any inferiority complex about using epoxy. The other nice thing is that epoxy leaves you some minutes to adjust things. I am presently half way through the construction of a D78 Pennsylvania diner. Making clerestories isn't such a big deal to us who have known La Belle or Walthers kits in the old days. To make the sides and clerestory section use bass wood or poplar type wood (here it's called Samba wood) make a template fix it to a board (with screws from underneath, clamp it and use a well adjusted plane to plane it going in one pas from one end to the other without stoping). for a closed clerestory do the same for the center part, it gets a bit more compicated if you need an open clerestory but can be done also. In this case I used styreen construction. once you have it done to the corect profile make the turn under with a file and then sand it smooth. If you have access to a bellt sander it's even easier but be careful not to take too much off too soon. Making the beading along the clerestory can be done with stripwood and to do the ends look at the method employed for Walthers kits in their catalogue from the sixties or seventies, it's a sinch to scale up.Then use a sealer for sealing the wood sand with finer and finer sand paper and use putty to fill any faults. The good thing about aluminium is it's sturdy yet light, you can add more cars. Sorry but I can't post photos... but you can look me up in the G1MRA newsletter and i can send them to you.
Simon Duhamel


Simon, do you have any pictures? I'm wondering what you mean by a "turn under". I'm also always looking for new construction techniques. One of my scratch builts died on the vine, but I've gotten pretty good at kitbashing, so maybe it's time to return to the abandoned sratch built caboose.....


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Hi there everybody: 
I am still trying to figure out how to post photos on this and other forums. Charles of TRS services posted a few photos of my train and cars in a thread on Pennsy locos a few month ago. I think there is a pretty good photo of my B60 baggage car in it. I have built to date in about 30 years three styrene and wood coaches (a CIWL LX sleeper, an OCEM 1rst class coach, and a Postal car, a construction technique I have abandoned because with Continental draught gear it creates a big tug on the ends which can in certain circumstances be pried off. one all styrene Renault railcar, and five aluminum coaches to date (an OCEM riveted 4 wheel bagage, an express Nord all welded third class coach, a PRR B60 baggage, a PRR N5 cabin car, and a PRR D78 diner underr construction). a dozen freight cars, an all brass electric SNCF 2-Do-2 (4-8-4 wheel arangement) and a lot of track and switches and the frame wheels and coupling rods for a Nord mikado tank in live steam. all the while holding a fulltime job, raising a family and so on. I also built quite a bit of HO kits models and scratchbuilt stuff during this period. So I think many of us could do it too, it's a question of setting your priorities. 
Getting back to the E6 you could not do it with slip excentrics really as there is quite a lot of space under the boiler to see the top of the frame and it would show and look weird, it has to have an outside walshaerts. I have an Aster K4 which was converted to meth by a boiler genius of the G1MRA: Tony Hall Patch, it works like a charm. A type C boiler kind of baffle returns the hot gases into the (original gas) firetubes and it really steams beautifully. So a mixed fuel could probably work seing that the K4 boiler is an extended E6 one. The only complication is to make a blower. Well, happy steaming!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By du-bousquetaire on 27 Jun 2013 02:07 PM 
Hi there everybody: 
I am still trying to figure out how to post photos on this and other forums. Charles of TRS services posted a few photos of my train and cars in a thread on Pennsy locos a few month ago. I think there is a pretty good photo of my B60 baggage car in it. I have built to date in about 30 years three styrene and wood coaches (a CIWL LX sleeper, an OCEM 1rst class coach, and a Postal car, a construction technique I have abandoned because with Continental draught gear it creates a big tug on the ends which can in certain circumstances be pried off. one all styrene Renault railcar, and five aluminum coaches to date (an OCEM riveted 4 wheel bagage, an express Nord all welded third class coach, a PRR B60 baggage, a PRR N5 cabin car, and a PRR D78 diner underr construction). a dozen freight cars, an all brass electric SNCF 2-Do-2 (4-8-4 wheel arangement) and a lot of track and switches and the frame wheels and coupling rods for a Nord mikado tank in live steam. all the while holding a fulltime job, raising a family and so on. I also built quite a bit of HO kits models and scratchbuilt stuff during this period. So I think many of us could do it too, it's a question of setting your priorities. 
Getting back to the E6 you could not do it with slip excentrics really as there is quite a lot of space under the boiler to see the top of the frame and it would show and look weird, it has to have an outside walshaerts. I have an Aster K4 which was converted to meth by a boiler genius of the G1MRA: Tony Hall Patch, it works like a charm. A type C boiler kind of baffle returns the hot gases into the (original gas) firetubes and it really steams beautifully. So a mixed fuel could probably work seing that the K4 boiler is an extended E6 one. The only complication is to make a blower. Well, happy steaming! Good day Simon

You can either send me the photo if you like or:
1) First Class member on MLS
2) Post a link on a photo web site (e.g. Flickr)

As to blower that should not be a problem to find a pathway for it.


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## LveStmr2 (Nov 28, 2014)

*vino or cleaner and easier gas*



Garratt said:


> Jason,
> 
> Why alcohol fired instead of butane?
> 
> Andrew


i'm for butane fired. alcohol has too much disadvantages:

1. need a fan and batteries to start the fire
2. installing and experimenting with wick's height, width, packing correctly, no flailed string tips etc are
such a fuss
3. alcohol must be pure. water tends to get in and ruin the fuel. even when you buy a can from your local h/w
store, it maybe already contaminated with water
4. hard to light the wicks under the chassis and to check if they're lighted properly
5. weaker (less BTU) than the butane
6. the wick maintenance need be kept - keep the wicks clean from globule of melted strands and
charcoal, grey clinckers
7. easily forget to close the dripping valve while fueling - and don't spill! don't forget to bring the tiny funnel
8. fire hazzard. many got burned with their invisible fire on the fuel spilled loco, layout ties/structure, clothing, ...
even fingers
9. even after the fan is removed, must make sure that your blower is working (centered, not plugged up, pointing
straight up, etc) or the loco will starve for air and fire would die out
10. you may get drunk on the wood alcohol liquid if not the fumes (is that a disadvantage?)

advantages of butane fired:

1. like your kitchen gas stove, it's easier to turn on - don't need a finger cutting fan to keep the flame on 
for cooking your steak (or should be simpler, to boil tea)
2. high BTU
3. easier to re-fuel. on above 2ft ga. locos, their fuel tanks are close to the boiler, warming the gas tank.
if you're in a colder climate, why not button up all the cab windows and the back of the cab with curtains
like the real engine crew have done?
4. butane is cheaper(?)
5. safer to use
6. no clean up me-lady of any burnt residue

Some folks like the alcohol option especially in their colder climates. Butane can't transfer easily when the loco's
fuel tank is colder than the canister. This problem can be easily solved by putting a piece of hot water drenched
cloth around the tank or warm water surrounding the tank while re-fueling. if you live in california or the southern
states (or even in the colder climates), why should you put up with all the disadvantages of alcohol?

with the coming of much hotter and even burning ceramic gas burners, there's no contest except for more
complicated vaporizing alcohol burner.

Hope that the E6s model has the glass covered fire door too for visible enjoyment.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm... a little true in advertisement here is needed:
Butane-
Except for the wonderful Whuu/Bowande ceramic setup there are disadvantages beyond cold temperatures:
1- Jets clogging
2- Over firing resulting in smokebox fires
3- Butane fires when gas lines break
4- Loud jet roar of the burner
5- Cost more (alcohol is cheaper)
6- Having to adjust the air collar
7- Gas systems need heater valve
8- Waste of fuel during filling of tank
9- Given that most recent locomotives run out of water before fuel one can damage the boiler.
10-Waste of fuel with remaining portion that cannot be propelled from the canister.

So, some positive aspect of alcohol firing and comparative points with gas firing
1- All weather fuel
2- Setup the system and it does not need adjusting (better wick material now than earlier)
3- Cost is cheaper
4- Quiet (great to be able to hear the locomotive beats during a run)
5- Boiler is less likely to be damaged if the engine runs out of fuel
6- Much easier to light the fuel source and keep it going
7- Gas fired engines need adapters to be able to fill the tank (cost)
8- Some big gas fired engines need a fan
9- Moisture in the fuel is no likely if kept in proper container
10- lighting the wick is no harder than getting a gas fired engine lit and to say lit.
11- unaware of many people, items around the track or other objects getting burnt on a regular basis. At the same time I have seen gas fired with "towering inferno" burnt hair, gas lines etc.
12-I have seen operators of gas fired not reduce the gas flow once it flame as popped back onto the burner thus cook the front end of the locomotive.

Point is that both fuels do the job if properly applied and are viable options that can fill the needs of hobbyists.

When it comes to fuel, I prefer COAL!

alcohol has too much disadvantages:

1. need a fan and batteries to start the fire
2. installing and experimenting with wick's height, width, packing correctly, no flailed string tips etc are
such a fuss
3. alcohol must be pure. water tends to get in and ruin the fuel. even when you buy a can from your local h/w
store, it maybe already contaminated with water
4. hard to light the wicks under the chassis and to check if they're lighted properly
5. weaker (less BTU) than the butane
6. the wick maintenance need be kept - keep the wicks clean from globule of melted strands and
charcoal, grey clinckers
7. easily forget to close the dripping valve while fueling - and don't spill! don't forget to bring the tiny funnel
8. fire hazzard. many got burned with their invisible fire on the fuel spilled loco, layout ties/structure, clothing, ...
even fingers
9. even after the fan is removed, must make sure that your blower is working (centered, not plugged up, pointing
straight up, etc) or the loco will starve for air and fire would die out


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Who says there is not much discussion these days?
We just need a good topic.

nice posts


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

<RANT>
Comment NOT specifically directed at the poster, but a general observation of a continuing issue...[EDIT]

It would have been at least quasi-intelligent to start a new thread since this topic is not REMOTELY related to the title on the original thread ... and was 15 months after the thread DIED.

Most people will NEVER find this except by accident.
Good discussion but I only stumbled onto it because I saw that Jim O had posted to it. I am not really interested in the E6 project.

I think the moderators should automatically lock any thread that has been dormant for more than 12 months from additional posts. The person who wants to resurrect some part of the discussion can start a NEW THREAD and reference the old one for continuity. </RANT>


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

No soup for you!

* * * * *

I don't think it is a good idea to lock any threads unless the content violates the Terms of Service for the site.

I found this thread by accident as well and the first part of it interests me as much as the most recent posts do - even though it meandered. I'm pleased that I had an opportunity to see it and read it, but if I had had no interest, I'd simply let it pass.

From time to time, any one of us may start a project or a discussion and then let it seemingly die away, only to revive the project and/or the discussion later - possibly even much later.

The J&M Model thread that I started some time ago comes to mind. I may want to pick it up a year from now or sooner and someone else may decide to append to it tomorrow - or a year from now.

The thread on the refurbishing of the Aster K4s that I started was left incomplete. I did, however; finish the work on the model and will update the thread when I have a mind to do so . . . and its revival may at that time stimulate more interest - or not. To each his own, I say.

If any of us do not appreciate what we see in a thread when we happen to come upon it, my suggestion is to leave it alone and allow those who may appreciate it an opportunity to do so.

Cheers,

Joe

Edit: Jim, I apologize if what I said above offends you, but one never knows when a thread ends whether it will be picked up again and stay on topic or whether it will wander off topic. 

Threads drift off course even while fresh. I recall Simon, and I conversing about the Nord Pacifics and the ETAT and the Fleche D'Or in the J&M thread - a tangential discussion to the main discussion concerning the availability of J&M Model stock and what one may or may not pay for items as they come available.

It's true that some nuggets of information may get lost in the stream which is the main topic, but . . . it's not a tragedy when it happens.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Joe
NOTHING would be lost if when a thread drifts far off course that a NEW thread gets started that has a RELEVANT subject title, It is far more useful if someone is searching for information. I attribute it mostly to laziness, just like when a group email exchange goes far afield and no one is willing to simply change the subject line.

My comment is based on the fact that resurrecting old threads, especially ones that have drifted from the original topic DO NOT help people who are later trying to find USEFUL information.

BTW, it is pretty hard to offend Dr Rivet... I am too old to be bothered. OH... and I DO THINK IT IS a tragedy when information is LOST due to [IMHO] laziness on the part of posters who could otherwise make it "easily discoverable".
Just my usual biased opinion.
EDIT - Think of this a the equivalent of taking the time to properly file useful information in a file cabinet with proper tabs and an index [which takes time and effort] versus just throwing the same documents in boxes and hoping that some day some one can find it. IF you really want to help contribute to the store hose of accumulated knowledge and experience for both newcomers and those who find new interest in a subject, then failing to make the small initial effort to make the information recoverable by those that follow us later should be considered "worth the effort". 
In my 39 years of Federal service and 22 years in the military, I cannot tell you how much "useful" information was LOST just because some one could not be bothered to put in a place where those that needed it later could find it. As you may have guessed... you hit a nerve.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Jim,

Your points are well taken. I agree we should all try and stay on topic, but not to the point where it feels restrictive to anyone.

I think it should be left up to the thread starters and their readers and participants in discussion to decide whether to follow your suggestions - or not.

I am not in favor of auto-locking of threads due to age of the thread.

When one uses Google to look for information, as opposed to simply the search tools attached to this forum, one can find some of the extraneous bits. I've done so myself. 

Joe


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Perhaps Jason or Accucraft could give an update on the status of this project?

I for one would be interested in understanding what it takes to bring a product like this to market - the decisions, information, tasks, people involved, etc. Particularly in light of comments made in other threads regarding the unpredictability of Accucraft producing models.

Assuming development isn't "locked," the desirability and merits of various fuels seems like pertinent information to have - though one can never assume every opinionated individual on the internet is a likely buyer!


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I just checked the Accucraft web site, and the E6 it isn't listed anywhere, not that I'm interested in getting one, also curious about the procedure as I have two Three Truck Shays on Preorder with Silver State Trains.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Project is in the works and on schedule, expecting to see a prototype early 2015. Just now starting to see production drawings to finalize and approve. Still keeping a list of interested parties for reservations. As its not official with a Sku yet there are no firm orders accepted until the prototype is built, tested and final costs calculated. 

Still planned offering of a Black and Green lined version, #460 Black and #1794 Green the first and last production E6 versions. Yes #1794 was the first production after the prototypes were built and tested. #460 happens to be the last production and was also the one that raced Lindberg in the great race. Both Gas and Alcohol versions. Still expected to be 3400.00


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Hi folks:
I was off this thread for quite some time because my father was in a very bad state and had to be taken care of, which we did, he passed away early this fall in his sleep right at home. I am very happy about the news of the E6 comming soon from mr Kovac. Sure many fans would like other railroads to have a chance such as the C&NW or the milwaukee for instance, but model railroading has always been that way, back in the sixties all you could find was AT&SF, SP, PRR, DRG&W and GN and a dab of UP. its nice to know it's getting like that in Gauge one live steam. When I started to model PRR in 2009 all there was was the Aster K4. Now we can line up a T1 and announced are an Atlantic, a ten wheeler and a mountain. How fine can it get? now if someone would do a J1 or a Hyppo we would be all set, wouldn't we... Model railroading is a hobby of patience and self build, what you can't find - Build your own. I can therefore concetrate on a Hyppo and a J1 for retirement projects, what a great time I will have doing it, and what pride I will take in having done it, if the lord above permits. Just like traveling : half the fun is (or used to be) getting there, same with modeling. For those who asked about my cars the whole story is published in Steam in the Garden right down to the making of diaphragms or bellows if you prefer. Take care every body, Simon


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Simon, Very sorry to hear of your loss. 
I found your diaphragm build very informative, and referred to it on a different site. Also made a few, and they do function quite well. 
I have also followed your Dining car build and found it very interesting.
I have other thoughts about the making of the Atlantic in PRR. It may be that PRR may have had more of them than the rest of the RR's combined, but I think it would more marketable if it had a generic look. 
That is just MHO as I have no skin in the game nor do I have any intention towards purchasing one. I have my hopes on the purposed 3 truck shay.


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## PhoebeSnow (Sep 4, 2013)

I'm not certain if it was mentioned on this thread, but who will be manufacturing the locomotive?

Thanks!!


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Brian, We are working with Accucraft to produce this. The topic has drifted quite far from talking about the loco itself but you can reserve a interest by emailing me or through my website www.thetraindepartment.com. I am logging all parties interested for the reservation process so that when it is here in a prototype form and we have a sku # for it I will email a notice that deposits are due for production. It streamlines the process and makes sure that no one is left out that wanted to order one. I assume that it will be 100% reservation by the time of production going by the numerous reservations already. Expecting to see a prototype in the next couple months.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Wow that sounds neat Jason! Although selfishly it fits my bill to a T, being committed to modeling the PRR. I must confess that it is certaily not a "generic " engine and that an Alco light Atlantic of about the same vintage would probably have had a better following in that It was a type found on many roads with minor modifications: NYC, B&M, C&NW, and most likely many others, (which is probably why Henry Greely had Basset Lowke make a fair replica of it) or a Hariman type, same comment. But then you can't please every body in this hobby and it seems that strangely as it may seem the gauge one market is developing much like the HO market I knew in the '50 and '60: A lot of SP, UP (strangely, heretofore no AT&SF) GN because Bill Ryan liked that road, and PRR,, C&O, and NYC for the east, with a bit of N&W. But don't forget friends after that period a lot of the smaller class 1 roads got brass too... In this hobby one has to be patient.
I chose the PRR because, although it claimed to be the standard railroad of the world, everything was different, more of a chalenge. Thanks for the comforting words Nick Jr., By the way for those making bellows the way I described, using silastic to make them waterproof wasn't a succesfull idea. It glues all the bellows together, right now I have applied talcum to cure this but this isn't the running season, so I can't say if this cures the ill yet. will probably send a note to Steam in the Garden next spring about this.


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Jason, was the inspiration for this upcomming Train Departmen/Accucraft Pennsy Model the Tom Barratt built example that turned up in your neck of the woods 4 or 5 years ago. I think Tom built about six of them, probably with little in the way of drawings or knowledge of US steam locos, but like all of his engines, great runners.
David M-K
Ottawa


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David

The Tom Barratt models were PRR class D16sb 4-4-0s, not an E6 class 4-4-2. Probably look alike to a CPR fan.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

dr rivet said:


> david
> 
> the tom barratt models were prr class d16sb 4-4-0s, not an e6 class 4-4-2. Probably look alike to a cpr fan.


:d:d:d:d


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Well all Pennsy locos look the same, kind of like all Great Western locos look the same.
Oh wait - the GG1 looks different.
Merry Christmas to All,
and to All, a good year of steaming in 2015,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

And look at the Royal Hudson and Selkirk. Just cut and paste drivers. Can do the same for the 4-4-4 is it?


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Dr Rivet said:


> David
> 
> The Tom Barratt models were PRR class D16sb 4-4-0s, not an E6 class 4-4-2. Probably look alike to a CPR fan.


 

I knew the Barratt was another class Jim, hence my question as to INSPIRATION since it was probably the first small Pennsy G1 engine to be seen on a regular basis at steamups in the NYC to DC area, is it still steaming and who runs it? As you know I'm fairly clueless about anything that didn't come from Ashford, Brighton, Eastleigh or Longhedge........)!

David M-K


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

GaugeOneLines said:


> I knew the Barratt was another class Jim, hence my question as to INSPIRATION since it was probably the first small Pennsy G1 engine to be seen on a regular basis at steamups in the NYC to DC area, is it still steaming and who runs it? As you know I'm fairly clueless about anything that didn't come from Ashford, Brighton, Eastleigh or Longhedge........)!
> 
> David M-K


David,
I put the two sellers in touch with the two buyers of the Barratt D16sb's, and as far as I know, both are still being enjoyed this side of the pond.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

There are three of the Barratt D16sb locomotives on the east coast and operational.

Two are in the shop both for repaint and one for some era related changes.

PRR D16sb


Certainly will be an excellent opportunity to include the E6 into the stable of PRR locomotives


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Actually felows, I think that a company's esthetics is an asset to the rail amateur, I used to be atracted to companies that had a very discreet company look to them like the French ETAT system or the Boston and Maine R.R. (although when you really take a close look at these both, you can find that they really have quite a caracter of their own), But now, I am more atracted to companies who really have an esthetic of their own, or even better two or three different ones as time unthreads: IE the Gibbs era, the Kiessel era, and the duplex era (or should we say the Loewy era) or on the Nord the Du-Bousquet era (now you know the why of my code name), the Asselin and Colin era, then the De Caso era. It's the British (notably JVR) that got me onto the fact that railway locomotive design should be looked at from the human perspective of the men who created them. Just as the era, on the CP (which I am no specialist of) when the Selkirlk, Jubilees and the Royal Hudson were designed which all have a strong family resemblance, is quite distinct from that of the earlier light pacifics or even the incredible 0-6-6-0 mallets with the cylinders facing each others; which seems to be a genial idea from the point of vue of the rather cold climate they were designed to operate in. These fine points and the men who developped them are what is interesting, not the golden idol.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Well with Diamondhead here and gone the E6s was shown, inspected and sent back to completion. Some technical things to iron out but its coming along nicely. 

4 versions will be built both alcohol and Butane and in either Black and Green lined.

Pricing set at 3200 for green and 3000 for black

For more and the color color drawings see them on my site 

http://www.thetraindepartment.com/accucraft-live-steam/accucraft-american-1-32/


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Green pigment must be expensive!


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, the LABOR is the added expense, what is the exchange rate today?? The Chinese must be doing better than we at this time. How many do they paint at the same time?? On a limited run of a locomotive??? They did the same thing with the Fairmead. 
Who said "what ever the market will bear" I'm sure there'll be a scathing reply to this.


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe they just need to finish the engine, add all the missing detail and then she'll be ready for painting. I find it best to paint when the rest is all in place first.

David.


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## JimB (Jan 25, 2013)

This is not my scale but I really liked the looks of that loco at Diamondhead. Looks like it could make it around my narrow gauge loop. James


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

seadawg said:


> Green pigment must be expensive!


Dave, Its the added expense of decaling not the paint itself. Just look what it would cost for Stan Cedarleaf to print 1.5 pages of decals in multi color and foils. Looking at about 150.00 just for that. Id say its reasonable. Guess if someone thinks its to much added expense get a black one? Being that the 3k is under the estimate originally I though that it would of been welcomed to pay less for the undecorated version.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Stan's decals are well worth it. He does the design, or has the library to research it, sends you samples for approval. You can make changes in size or style, only then he does the finish printing, and in most cases he is doing only one page. 

My point is, Using that logic, If he were doing 25 or more the cost would be maybe $ 20.00/set, NOW we add the labor, which comes to $ 130.00 each?? 
So comes back to 'what ever the market will bear' rather than cost and expense. And I can respect that, instead of convoluted logic, thank you.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Would decals be used on a production steamer?

I had thought it would be screen print with an appropriate high temperature paint, and then baked. Probably that means the base color is applied and baked, then the secondary colors are applied and the parts baked again.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

BigRedOne said:


> Would decals be used on a production steamer?
> 
> I had thought it would be screen print with an appropriate high temperature paint, and then baked. Probably that means the base color is applied and baked, then the secondary colors are applied and the parts baked again.


Most likely on this it will be decals as it was on the Mason and other fancier painted locos. On simpler stuff they are pad printed so each color and panel has a separate pad. This is also a large expense for each pad and extra fixtures. 

Nick since it is obvious you have not dealt with Stan doing decorative decals, the multi color and the foils are additional costs. Being the tender itself is more than a sheet for 4 panels and on top of that its gold plus 2 colors and that does not include al the driver and wheel decals too. I'm not sure where you get 20.00 per loco or even 20.00 per sheet when his minimum for metallic is 38.00 page plus additional colors. I know personally what I paid Stan for decals for coaches in gold and color and it was most certainly NOT anywhere near what you are quoting. 

The material is getting harder and harder to get and costs are just climbing. He also uses the good decal paper and not the thin junk that tears.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

J, Stan made some beautiful PRR decals for me, How can you compare a one man operation (who does excellent work) with the factory, and the size of their equipment to produce it, I'm sure their print shop is a bit bigger, faster and capable of producing many at each pass since they do this daily, not only for Accucraft. Now compare the US prices with those where the locomotive is being made. 
Accucraft can ask what every they want for a locomotive, Decorated or Undec, it doesn't have to be justified with things that aren't comparable. thank you.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

Since no one seems to actually know how accucraft makes the "decals", I believe Jay was offering a comparison of what it would take and cost to have them done on your own. I've had an Alps printer for years and its extremely costly these days. Since I seriously doubt the factory is using an Alps printer, they would normally use other higher quality methods such as pad printing on the model or silk screening decals, both of which have other upfront costs. 

Assuming they're using a silk screened decal, applying the decal is also critical. This decal has a huge clear area which is probably cut out as wouldn't want to apply this to the tender sides. They need to be applied on gloss finish, decal solvent applied to get them to sit properly and dissolve some of the clear decal film, let dried and then clear coated. Times 4 sides. = additional time and labor. Let alone including a spread factor for screw ups and fixing it. 

Spread all these costs across low volume, and who know's what it actually adds up to, but either way, accuraft is in the business to make money.

If you want to continue "decaling" discussions, I suggest starting another thread in the model making forum.

-Ray


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Nick, you overestimate how things are done in China. It is not always entirely different than what you would do on your loco. Now think about what a buzz hassle it is to do and how much you would charge someone to do it knowing it has to be perfect. Everyone associates China with almost free and it ain't so anymore. BTW, no disrespect but profit isn't a dirty word. Order yours in black.

Dave


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, with all respect, I think you mean that I underestimate the cost's in China. And you may be right to a degree. And again, you're projecting the cost to do just one, not an assembly line of them. 
BTW, I am a filthy Capitalist Pig, been in business for my self this year makes 30, and no I don't think profit is a dirty word. All business should make as much as possible, otherwise what's the sense of being in business. And the profit is usually eaten up by taxes, fees and other Govt duties attached. 
I just didn't like the comparison. 
And I have no intention of ordering one, I said that on page 5 of this topic.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

No,Nick, actually I am thinking assembly line. I have worked with companies out of China the last 12 years. 8 years of that was in the hobby industry. BTW, I don't like it either But I think it is realistic for such a pain in the neck process.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, then I bow to your experience, thank you.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep like the look when I saw it at DH but over all, I doubt if it will be a great puller except on table top. Just not fitted for my RR for now. Later RJD


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Not sure what expectations of a puller you are expecting but at DH I was pulling half of the cars on the big track no problem, maybe 15-18 freight? Would be typical to run this with 4-5 coaches so its about right. Have to upload the videos I took still.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is the video I took of the loco running along with the J and Shay thrown in to.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Jason:

Nice video...the prototype E6 certainly looks to be a nice running model locomotive.

The E6 with that huge firebox looks like an ideal candidate for a coal firing conversion...any thoughts to having Justin make up some coal boilers for this loco once it gets into production?


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason, will you get to see an alcohol version before production?


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## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

A few more video's on the under development E6 at DH 2015


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Hi folks: I have an Aster K4 and beleive me the paintwork on it isn't done with decals and is quite a lot of work just doing the gold lining around every driver and ponney wheel plus the gold lining on every spoke alone is a considerable job, well worth the $200 beying asked and I think that Jason has really made a very big effort on the price of this loco. I have also worked for a model firm in Paris doing their masking, painting and lettering with a pad machine and it is a considerable job. The tender lining has three colours also. Really offering the lined Dark green loco enamel finish for two hundred bucks is a freeby, Bravo Jason! No links whatsoever with the firm, by the way.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff, the sample when it comes back will have a alcohol boiler. The gas was to get something that ran. 

Cliff -Coal is a thought. Really need a good 6 people to stand up though for a conversion to happen. Though these Hunslet's need to get completed first.

Sam, that video shows just what it is capable of pulling, so much for just a few cars on a flat track as someone said.


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Nice runner even with big drivers. Thankfully not looking since sticking with narrow gauge. Just awaiting the Accucraft under development C-18.


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