# Triggering whistle



## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

I have a Big Hauler with a G DCC decoder LocoSpecific AristoCraft plug-in PROGRAMMABLE steam sound. I use an MRC 10amp DC controller












I would like to trigger my sound card to activate the whistle when it passes a point on my track. I have read switches and Magnets. Can this be done with this configuration? 

WHat would I have to do to accomplish this?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You need to reverse the polarity while the loco is moving to turn the whistle on/off.... the easiest way is to put in 2 insulated joiners where you want the whistle to start, and 2 more where you want it to stop... then reverse the polarity of that track section. The whistle will start to blow at the first joiners and stop blowing at the last... you could use a small dpdt switch to return this track section to "normal" when you do not want this feature... total cost 4 insulated joiners and one dpdt switch... 

The QSI does not have trigger inputs like the dallee or the phoenix. 

Regards, Greg


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

Thats a great idea. I wonder why the designers of these card did not make it easier for us to trigger these nice sounds using read switches.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07/02/2009 6:55 AM
You need to reverse the polarity while the loco is moving to turn the whistle on/off.... the easiest way is to put in 2 insulated joiners where you want the whistle to start, and 2 more where you want it to stop... then reverse the polarity of that track section. The whistle will start to blow at the first joiners and stop blowing at the last... you could use a small dpdt switch to return this track section to "normal" when you do not want this feature... total cost 4 insulated joiners and one dpdt switch... 

The QSI does not have trigger inputs like the dallee or the phoenix. 

Regards, Greg

So you just butcher up your track and hope you get it right the first time. I think I would prefer magnets that can be easily moved.


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, Del.... I bet your module could be set up to trigger a polarity reversing DPDT relay like the ones Dallee sells .... you could take an input from a reed switch, and have the module do the reverse polarity sequence for the " --- --- o --- " even .... when the train passed the point on the layout where the reed switch was, your module would telegraph out the whistle signal on the locomotive.... You could even add a "manual" button on one of the other inputs for the operator to use whenever..... 

Might be an interesting application! 

Matthew (OV)


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

*Navy Tech/et-al*

*Here is my $5 solution from an HO show parts table.







*

*Before QSI made their Engineer (Box full of buttons),*
*they made the SIDEKICK (just 2 buttons). Thats the GOOD NEWS.*
* 

*
*









The BAD NEWS is that they have long been discontinued but sometime*
*show up on EVIL-BAY.....one's currently up for sale....not mine...

I removed the board from the plastic box, connected some spare PHOENIX
reed switches across the SIDEKICK board mounted switches.





























Inserted the SIDEKICK between the track pick ups and the QSI then RTV'd
it in the long hood of my GP-40. Now I can 'visit' layouts that have track magnets.

The only 'THING' different is that QSI's HORN will only blow 
while there is a closed switch. SO I found a long flexiable magnet from a poster
..........(not my FARRA FAWCETT red swim suit poster)....








and lay that between the rails where needed. 
You can vary the length of the magnet for short or long blows.

FYI: 
There is a .8 volt drop when you use the SIDEKICK.
For the HORN, it reverses the polarity while the switch is closed.
For the BELL, it generates the needed ~180ms pulse to toggle the bell ON/OFF.
I do not have a new Aristo Revolution TE to try it out.


*


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, 
How does the QSI handle the reverse polarity to the motors? I would think it would be hard on gear boxes.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, since this is a microprocessor-controlled motor and sound decoder, it is programmed to ignore voltage reversals when it is under way. It also has momentum, so when running on DCC you reverse the loco, it slows down gracefully. 

This method of control over DC has been used by QSI for years, with no ill effects. 

My suggestion is as before if you want the automatic whistle, just have a short insulated section of track and feed it with a DPDT switch, so you can leave it "normal" for non-qsi locos, and reversed to trigger whistle in QSI's. 

I think the term "butcher" is a bit strong. Cost is 4 insulated joiners, and one dpdt switch and maybe 15 minutes... 

Just trying to answer your question with the simplest and least expensive method. The question as I understand it is to automatically trigger the whistle. 

Ray's suggestion is great, jut might take some effort to find a sidekick... you could probably do this with the full blown train engineer for $45. 

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I liked your answer greg I am not sure why you got the responce you did ......


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg: your brain must be working over time. Thats a new twist you came up with compared to my original version. Sounds good tho. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Yes that is a GREAT ideal. i will try it out at the next show, i can do it rite in front of the station, very cool ideal i guess i will be BUTCHERING up some of my track...







AAAAAAA a small price to pay for automation..


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the explanation Greg. Sounds like a good work around.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05 Jul 2009 09:28 AM 
...

I think the term "butcher" is a bit strong. ...



OK. So some of you don't like my terminology. My analogy is this; magnets/reed switches are like moving a band-aid around on your arm until it covers the wound. Cutting up your track is like an incision. It is permanent and has consequences if you didn't do it right the first time. Actually, an incision will heal over time. Cutting up your track will not.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Many people use sectional track, so in my opinion, swapping in some insulated joiners are no big deal. You can always put the original joiners back in if you do not want the insulated ones. 

Track is not "destroyed" or "damaged" from using insulated joiners, and if you do have to cut the track because a "natural" track joint is not near enough, it's not the end of the world, I have about 500 rail clamps, and about 20 insulated clamps. I have no problems. I suspect there are rail joints near enough that no cutting will be necessary. 

It is a fact that an incision will leave scar tissue, but putting metal joiners back in are not leaving scar tissue on your track. 

Anyway, if any "butchering" happens because of my advice, I promise here, publicly, to pay for replacement track sections for our friend Navy Tech. You have my word on it.. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm not really familiar with the QSI decoder and how it works, but wouldn't you get a short circuit when the engine is moving past the insulated joiners into the track section with the reverse polarity? 
Same question for any lit cars or cars that pick up power for other functions? 

Just wondering.... 

knut


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05 Jul 2009 10:00 PM 
Many people use sectional track, so in my opinion, swapping in some insulated joiners are no big deal. You can always put the original joiners back in if you do not want the insulated ones. 

Track is not "destroyed" or "damaged" from using insulated joiners, and if you do have to cut the track because a "natural" track joint is not near enough, it's not the end of the world, I have about 500 rail clamps, and about 20 insulated clamps. I have no problems. I suspect there are rail joints near enough that no cutting will be necessary. 

It is a fact that an incision will leave scar tissue, but putting metal joiners back in are not leaving scar tissue on your track. 

Anyway, if any "butchering" happens because of my advice, I promise here, publicly, to pay for replacement track sections for our friend Navy Tech. You have my word on it.. 

Regards, Greg 
OK Greg ... I guess I got it wrong. I thought you had to have a momentary section of reverse polarity, as in 4-6", which would necessitate cutting up the track for that configuration. If you can do this with normal lengths of track and only have to change out the joiners, I agree it is no big deal. Still an odd way to do it ... certainly wouldn't be my preference, but OK. I GIVE!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You probably got confused with the bell function... the bell function is a quick back and forth "flip" of the direction switch, and it's sensitive to the "pulse" length, and it would be impossible to try to get it right with a precise length of track, since it would be dependent on the speed of the loco... 

The horn is turned on or off by a reverse in direction, while the loco is moving. Now, it might take a little experimentation, because a loco with a bunch of pickups would be making a momentary short, as Knut and you wisely point out, but it could be done I believe, maybe with a short section of dead track. It's worth experimenting, since the cost is about zero. 

Just trying to give more possibilities. I have several friends that are going to go DCC eventually, but need a "Transition phase" from DC. These kinds of ideas can help make that transition. Maybe not ideal, but if people ask questions, I should try to give answers to the question, not steer them "my way".... as I have been accused of many times.









So, this is a possible solution for a QSI that does not really have trigger inputs for reed switches. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually Knut is correct. 
As the loco crosses from one polarity to the other there will definitely be a short. 

I am familiar with QSI decoders in the smaller scales. I have an 0n30" C16 I use to demonstrate my H0 trackside R/C system that correctly times the power *"reversing"* needed to activate the Whistle/Horn and Bell functions. 
These are controlled by pushbuttons on the RCS TX-24 handpiece. 
As I understand it the LS version works more or less exactly the same as the smaller scales. 
Unfortunately my H0 R/C controller program uses 50% of voltage configuration to set the track idle voltage. 8 volts of 16 volts in is fine for H0, but I doubt 12 volts of 24 volts will be low enough for the the higher voltages of Large Scale locos. The Large Scale locos will have started moving at that voltage. 

Bear in mind also that the QSI sound system cannot use PWM track power. They must have smooth linear DC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, I did say he was correct in my post... second paragraph. 

Since Navy Tech already has the QSI, I suspect he knows about PWM being misinterpreted as DCC, and that the start voltage is higher. 

Yes, the LS version works the same as the HO version, in fact you use the HO manuals for it, which is something QSI does not really tell people, there is an extensive DCC manual, and there is an extensive Analog DC manual. 

Anyway, this is the place to share ideas and experiences, so we are "doing our jobs" as it were. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Since we're sharing ideas (no experience with QSI on my end obviously), how about this........since I think the shorting problem is a real issue if you're running passenger trains with lights that pick up power from the rails. 

Place a reed switch between track where you want the horn to trigger and mount a magnet to the underside of the loco(s) which you want to trigger the reed switch (and in turn the horn). 
Wire the reed switch to drive the coil of a power relay (via transistor if need be) and wire the contacts of the power relay between the powerpack and the layout. 
Since one is running DC, there is only one train that's being controlled on that track section. 
The loco passing over the reed switch will reverse the polarity of that complete track section by switching the relay momentarily - maybe some delay is required - don't know how long the reverse polarity is required to activate the horn. 
No more shorts and no cutting of the rails - but a more expensive solution than Greg's; also requires a bit more wiring. 
On the other hand, one can just add a pushbutton in parallel with the reed contact and then also operate the horn anywhere on the layout in addition to the automatic trigger.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, I custom built some units for Nick S. that are TE based, and made a little "box" with relays that went between the Trackside TE output and the rails... 

I used the Aristo accessory board, so I could control the horn/whistle... on or off, and also had a button for a short toot, and another button for the bell on and off. 

As soon as you reverse the track polarity, and the loco is moving, the state of the whistle is changed, from on to off, or off to on. 

A quick reverse and back (about 2 tenths of a second) does the bell... 

Actually if you could send the pulses "rigorously" enough you could do all 30 sounds with the direction switch. 

(That's what the $45 train engineer does). 

Good idea Knut, slightly more expensive, but most likely less problematic and restrictive than mine.... 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Yup Greg built this system for me to use because i didnt want to go DDC at the time and this works very well.......












and in use at the show.....


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