# Queston to J.J. on his Metal Bridge.



## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

*I didn't. want to infringe on John Bible's bridge post, so am asking question here.. 

**Need to ask a question on your Bridge, J.J. .. How high and wide is your Dbl. Track Bridge







I'm pulling out my 4 foot wooden truss bridge and building a metal Dbl. track bridge to replace it. 

This is the one I'm replacing. Starting to dry rot.











Going to have to move some track to get around a tree so it going to be tight to get this bridge in. 
This will make a longer siding in to Pine Tree Jct. for us to set aside longer trains. 
tk's Noel


*...................................................................................................................................................
*J.J. bridge*... 
A view of the first bridge from the other side.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The dimensions of the steel bridge are 12 wide by 12 inches high and it is 10 ft long. It is made out of 3/4 inch square tubing. It is a tight fit with wise. I might go 13 inches wide if you can.

Lay down two Pieces of straight track down and put a car on each. ( I used a box car) Spacing should be 6 to 8 inches center to center on the tracks. See what looks right to you.

Then what ever the distance car to car should be the same car to bridge. I did mostly by look. 

One problem I did have was the approach. I had the curve too close to the bridge and the over hang of the engine would hit the side of the bridge. I had to re lay and add a straight section to the approach of the bridge.

If you want more Pictuers I will take them and Post them. If you want I will put two cars on the bridge and take a picture to show you distance .

Got more Questions? Just ask. I will be glad to answer them. 

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Please post more pictures JJ, always nice seeing the stuff you are working on. 

Greg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Tks J.J. Boy you did bring up a good question tho... I'm entering from a signal track just ahead of the Bridge. Just after getting around a tree. (Italian cypress.)
Going to install the left hand 10' wide switch along side, about at the center of side of the tree in order to get on to the bridge. Tight like I said, darn it.. Wasn't thinking of the over hang of the front of the Steam Eng. might hit the bridge sides. 

I do have about 15 inches before the bridge tho. So maybe make the bridge 15 or16 inches wide then.. What you think. * Is that going to look bad?* 

Bridge is only going to be 4 foot long to get over the river from the Large hexagon 20 foot outdoor bird cage area.

As the tree grows, I' start cutting in to it until it starts growing from the other side of the track.. Like going thu a tree in the Redwoods.. laf. I have one about that way already on another area. 

Here is kinda of a sketch of the area.. "Sorry..Darn speell ck not working.. had to re-do it. darn."


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a thought 
On any bridge or tunnel I try for 8" , 4" clear each side from center. 
so a double track is 16" clear. this way 1:20 scale plows will clear. 
Plus you can use Garden Metal model cat walks to make the bridge look more complete. 
10" is min for high, from rail head to ceiling. 

My Bang' Canyon Bridges are 8 1/4"inside. single track.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

J.J.. I ck'ed and boy I may, like you said go maybe 13" or14" wide inside of 1/2 sq. tubing that we are building with. 15" or 16" is way to wide. Will look like a big box.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Make bridge wider (no sweat) and run the other mainline on other side of tree. 

Otherwise I think it does look a little weird, no one would build a double track bridge if a single track would do (except maybe our government).... 

Greg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 27 Oct 2010 02:14 PM 
Just a thought 
On any bridge or tunnel I try for 8" , 4" clear each side from center. 
so a double track is 16" clear. this way 1:20 scale plows will clear. 
Plus you can use Garden Metal model cat walks to make the bridge look more complete. 
10" is min for high, from rail head to ceiling. 

My Bang' Canyon Bridges are 8 1/4"inside. single track.










.................................................................................................

Tk's Marty... Maybe if I put a top on mine like yours it won't look so boxie .. That's gong to be one big box in a 4 or 5 foot link.









But trying to keep it in scale and ya ........add the railing and fill in the sides of the tracks Like I do my other bridges with strips of Red wood plank walk ways. 

This bridge was one of my first built 10 yrs. ago and just a basic bridge to get from point A to point B. So it had it and now for fire wood.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I was just looking at my bridge. I could add a top to my bridge some what like what Marty Has. I mean after all, it is Cozad's crossing









Noel I would stick aroun 13 inches wide if you can. It will look better. 


When I built this bridge I just bought a welder at HD. I had no idea how to weld. I set some track and cars on a 4 ft by 8 ft work bench. I used C clamps to hold the uprights inplace so see what it looke dlike.


The bridge is 3 to 4 years old maybe more. It has a nice natural rust pateana 


This is a picture my Nephew took. You can see my ugly welds.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't keep bridges to "scale" 
Just keep them in proportion. I look at photos and I know how large an engine is , then I size the material off what I see in the photo. 
does that make since??


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 27 Oct 2010 06:24 PM 
I don't keep bridges to "scale" 
Just keep them in proportion. I look at photos and I know how large an engine is , then I size the material off what I see in the photo. 
does that make since?? 
yup.. Sounds like a winner.. About the same here. What fits is what counts and get a train across the gap. 

J.J. Looks good to me... Only way to slow down the rust here was I found out is use Silver paint. For some reson it has an oily base or something in it.. Even after I primed my bridges with gray primer many times. Using lots of Black flat oil base paint, they still started to rust at the welds. 
I started to used wal-Mart shaker can silver paint and rust has slowed down. 

So guess all my bridges are going to be silver color now.
Tk's for the help guys...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Noel Rust bleeding thourgh the paint is desirable. Makes the bridge look more real. 

I agree with Marty. The Birdge I built is not to scale, it is what looked good to my eye. It is more porpotionate than scale. 

That is the way I do my rocks. It is the way it looks in my camera. I have put rocks in place then taken a picture to see of it looks right.

If the surface of the rocks loos like a face of a cliff I use it. You have no idea what I go through to get a rock to face the right direction all by my self. 

Sorry this is getting off the subject 



JJ


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 27 Oct 2010 04:03 PM 
I was just looking at my bridge. I could add a top to my bridge some what like what Marty Has. I mean after all, it is Cozad's crossing









Noel I would stick aroun 13 inches wide if you can. It will look better. 


When I built this bridge I just bought a welder at HD. I had no idea how to weld. I set some track and cars on a 4 ft by 8 ft work bench. I used C clamps to hold the uprights inplace so see what it looke dlike.


The bridge is 3 to 4 years old maybe more. It has a nice natural rust pateana 


This is a picture my Nephew took. You can see my ugly welds.











Ugly welds? What ugly welds? I think your bridge looks GREAT JJ!! Very nice!!


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 27 Oct 2010 02:45 PM 
Make bridge wider (no sweat) and run the other mainline on other side of tree. 

Otherwise I think it does look a little weird, no one would build a double track bridge if a single track would do (except maybe our government).... 

Greg 

...................................................................................


Other side of the tree is the 6 foot or more wide walk way for the old golf cart and trailer to get stuff to the back. This walk way is about 3oo ft long then braches out.

Here is a old photo of the area. 
The walk bridge has been updated and stronger with 4 ea 4 X 8's, 10 foot long under it now. Not going to move that again.. 











Michael Glavin was over for a bit and we trying to fig. out a difference approach. He suggested to cut the tree down. hahahaha 

Greg. You just going to have to take a day and drive up here for a Dr.Pepper. 
It' only 500 miles.









Oh bring your E-8's..hahahaha I never had a chance to see or run one yet.
*Just kidding*.

J.J. I still like the look of your SD45's. Nice shot in the Bridge. 
What welds.????


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 27 Oct 2010 07:34 PM 
Noel Rust bleeding thourgh the paint is desirable. Makes the bridge look more real. 

I agree with Marty. The Birdge I built is not to scale, it is what looked good to my eye. It is more porpotionate than scale. 

That is the way I do my rocks. It is the way it looks in my camera. I have put rocks in place then taken a picture to see of it looks right.

If the surface of the rocks loos like a face of a cliff I use it. You have no idea what I go through to get a rock to face the right direction all by my self. 

Sorry this is getting off the subject 



JJ 

.......................................................................................... 

Naaaaaaaaa on subject.. it trains........
But.......I done some speckeld rocks splitting out back by a storage shead and used my Feathers. One pc. of rock went flying and bounched off the shead. Whopped me right on the head.. That my rock story.. laf. Sorry .Ya I got off the subject, but it was for trains..


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 27 Oct 2010 02:45 PM 
Make bridge wider (no sweat) and run the other mainline on other side of tree. 

Otherwise I think it does look a little weird, no one would build a double track bridge if a single track would do (except maybe our government).... 

Greg 

Au contrare!

Using Google Earth, go to:

41 deg 58' 57.82" N, 91 deg 40' 32.22" W

and study the trackage... 'Street View' has some good images on the west side, too.

This is a double track RR bridge over the Cedar River in Cedar Rapids, Iowa built in 1898 by the Chicago and Northwestern RR. It is a double track bridge with essentially single track feed from BOTH ends.

On the east side of the river is Quaker Oats (known, at least at one time, as the world's largest Cereal Mill) and switch yards for U.P. (the N/S section, formerly C&NW and R.I.) and C.N. (E/W section, formerly Milwaukee Road) for switching Quaker Oats, the Alliant Energy 6th Street power plant (east of Quaker Oats), and one of Cargill's oat plants in the city (East of the power plant and South of the C.N. yard).

The tracks on the east side of the bridge splay several directions in the Quaker Oats plant, but there is, in general, just one track that curves to the south to join the main track south.

On the west side, there used to be a single short siding serving the Hubbard Ice company to the north, but the track curving south has never been but a single track to the U.P. (former C&NW) Beverly Yard, southwest of town.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Noel, hope your head wasn't injured by that flying rock!! I think your layout looks fantastic! I vote for splitting the rail lines: one to the left, the other to the right of the tree. 

I've found that the Rust Dissolver spray cans from an auto parts store (get mine from local Pep Boys) will not only seal & stop the rust on steel, it converts it to a black coating that is ready for a primer. Haven't had any bleed through after using it on other projects (non-train; a 24-foot equipment hauler trailer got lots of it sprayed on when I built it).


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

Semper, that location got me an airport somewhere


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Biblegrove RR on 30 Oct 2010 07:22 AM 
Semper, that location got me an airport somewhere Hmmmm... the coordinants are correct, but Google Earth is not interpreting them correctly if you copy and paste them into the search box (The airport is in Southwest England... nowhere near the intended location of Cedar Rapids, Iowa, U.S.A.) Sorry 'bout that!

Try this: 41° 58' 57.82" N, 91° 40' 32.22" W

I changed the text "deg" to the degree symbol ("°") and it works correctly for me now.


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

I also vote for splitting the lines either side of the tree.
This is what I'll be doing when I go double track in the picture below.
The line on the left (the long level) is now built and running

http://www.the-wests.com/photos/track-tree.JPG


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Westcott on 30 Oct 2010 09:48 AM 
I also vote for splitting the lines either side of the tree.
This is what I'll be doing when I go double track in the picture below.
The line on the left (the long level) is now built and running

http://www.the-wests.com/photos/track-tree.JPG


................................................................................

Wescott... Wish i could go on both side of the tree. but, there is a large walk bridge to run equip. over and no place to move it over due to another big pine tree 4 foot around. The R.R. is an add on to the yard and never fig. the tracks would be going along side of the path way to get back to the main part of the layout. 
Joel Harrison that i help build his layout was over yesterday and like Michael trying to fig. a difference approach. If i move the curve back a couple feet before the tree i may be able to get two tracks along side of the tree between that and the pond. May have to pier over part of the pond tho. This would even make the sidings another 6 foot long beside the bridge dbl track.. Anyway still looking at suggestion ... It's going to be a bugger, anyway i do it. Seems like this darn R.R. keep expanding and have to replace old ideas i have when first started on a simple R.R. 
Looks like our R.R. is taking on more frt. traffic. " Boy going big time now.." Nick S.from NYC is dispatching a few NYC Frt. cars to be routed across the Line... Laf


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I just looked, it is double track on the east side all the way... curves back east and south and continues for a while. If you look west from where it goes to single track, it goes back to double pretty quickly, so who knows what the story is/was. If they were planning in the future to extend the double track more, that makes sense. Maybe it was double before and something made that short stretch of single track necessary. See if you can find another example, and also I will qualify, built that way at the time... not something built double and then converted to single track later as railroad traffic declined or other factors came about. I stand by my statement, no one would take single track (that was staying single track) and make it double just over the bridge, think of the extra cost, not to mention having a switch just before a bridge, the extra danger of derailments. Greg Posted By Semper Vaporo on 27 Oct 2010 09:37 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 27 Oct 2010 02:45 PM 
Make bridge wider (no sweat) and run the other mainline on other side of tree. 

Otherwise I think it does look a little weird, no one would build a double track bridge if a single track would do (except maybe our government).... 

Greg 

Au contrare!

Using Google Earth, go to:

41 deg 58' 57.82" N, 91 deg 40' 32.22" W

and study the trackage... 'Street View' has some good images on the west side, too.

This is a double track RR bridge over the Cedar River in Cedar Rapids, Iowa built in 1898 by the Chicago and Northwestern RR. It is a double track bridge with essentially single track feed from BOTH ends.

On the east side of the river is Quaker Oats (known, at least at one time, as the world's largest Cereal Mill) and switch yards for U.P. (the N/S section, formerly C&NW and R.I.) and C.N. (E/W section, formerly Milwaukee Road) for switching Quaker Oats, the Alliant Energy 6th Street power plant (east of Quaker Oats), and one of Cargill's oat plants in the city (East of the power plant and South of the C.N. yard).

The tracks on the east side of the bridge splay several directions in the Quaker Oats plant, but there is, in general, just one track that curves to the south to join the main track south.

On the west side, there used to be a single short siding serving the Hubbard Ice company to the north, but the track curving south has never been but a single track to the U.P. (former C&NW) Beverly Yard, southwest of town.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Noel, 
What about a Gantlet track, where one rail runs between the other track's rails? 

Trains can't pass each other, but 2 frogs are cheaper than 2 switches. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the problem is the opposite, he wants a double track bridge, but no room for double track on either side of the bridge. 

The gauntlet track (which is very cool) is double track on either side of the bridge, but sort of single on the bridge. 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I was thinking he could run the gantlet past the tree...as well 

John


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

41 deg 58' 57.82" N, 91 deg 40' 32.22" W took me to Shannon International Airport in Ireland. 

Bob C.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I wonder if he could change the angle of the bridge a little to miss the tree. He might have to put in a new abutment.

Then go back a few feet and relay the track for a different approach.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Gantlet track 
Gantlet track (also gauntlet track, or interlaced track) is where railway tracks converge onto a single roadbed and are interlaced to pass through a narrow passage such as a cutting, bridge, or tunnel. A frog at each end allows the two tracks to overlap, and the four rails run parallel through the passage on the same crossties and separate again at the other end. This technique requires only slightly more width than a single track and eliminates the complexities of a switching system since both tracks remain discrete. 

I copied 'n pasted this... not just for narrow bridges and my spelling was also correct. 

John


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

It could also be "modeled" to look like there used to be tracks going someplace on that side of the bridge that were torn out in a bankruptcy reorganization, industrial relocation, etc.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 31 Oct 2010 09:35 AM 
I wonder if he could change the angle of the bridge a little to miss the tree. He might have to put in a new abutment.

Then go back a few feet and relay the track for a different approach.
...................................................................................................................................................

Ya J.J. Looks like we are going to pull out about 6 foot of track by the tree and move the curve back on the walk way. Then start over with a 10 ft R.. Switch to two tracks and run along the right side of the tree.. May have to re-cemet on the side of the pond with rocks to get the widths we need move the bridge embutments over for the new Dbl. track bridge.. Reson for the Dbl. track is to make the Pine Tree Jct. sidding longer for a train pass or train temp. storage. This will give us over 20 foot sidding.. The right side coming on the birdge is the main line going around Pine Tree Jct. to keep traffic moving. Tk's. for all of the idea. Still going to be a bugger to put in.. 
...................................................................................................................................................

Gantlet track 
Gantlet track (also gauntlet track, or interlaced track) is where railway tracks converge onto a single roadbed and are interlaced to pass through a narrow passage such as a cutting, bridge, or tunnel. A frog at each end allows the two tracks to overlap, and the four rails run parallel through the passage on the same crossties and separate again at the other end. This technique requires only slightly more width than a single track and eliminates the complexities of a switching system since both tracks remain discrete.

I do like John's ( Total Wrecker) . idea for my trolley line to get over to an area on and off the main line.. Something to look in to ... Guess have to make my own rails for that. Could use the Aristo Replacement plastic fogs for that to. What you think?



...................................................................................................................................................
Semper Vaporo...It could also be "modeled" to look like there used to be tracks going someplace on that side of the bridge that were torn out in a bankruptcy reorganization, industrial relocation, etc.

We haven't Bankrupt yet..hahahahaha Close tho..
We do have one area that we don't use now and took the Rails off the ties .. in a short run.. Took the sw out to. But the DBl. track bridge is a must for the extended the sidding for passing and storage.
We have about two other places we can pass trains, but sure could use another one in the area... The other passing tracks are to far away and, ya... this is used for a Eng. run a round for spotting cattle cars. at the Jct. down the branch sidding.

That the fun of running trains is to drop off and pick up rolling stock aound the layout.. Sometime more fun when a few guys get to gether for train runs.. Using blocks and two TM's "A & B Blocks" with also, some batt. guys , We can keep a lot of trains moving. Sometime they not watching the dispatcher Signals from the main console and they might get an track powered Train in the same block and that fun to watch them fig. out how to get them out.. lol. Sometime, they have to call out a switch Eng. to get there train out of block. 

Note: ARE WE HAVE FUN YET.. YOU BET....


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

At the risk of splitting hairs, I'm pretty sure gauntlet is the interlaced track, gantlet refers to the long gloves that cover the wrists.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sorry Jack, you are wrong and right.... both spellings work. I prefer Gantlet. 
Gauntlet to me is what people run through.... 

John


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

John is absolutely correct. 

Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting, learn something every day, yeah, Gauntlet reminds me of the movie with the same name with Clint Eastwood. 

Nice to hear you bit the bullet Noel and make that double track work for a living! 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Woids and der roots... A gauntlet is a funnel. Where an army is forced to travel single file it is easier for the opposition to pick them off from the sides. Our native Americans did that to the calvery as they led them into canyons.... The gloves get their name from the shape as does the Gantlet, where track funnels two wide into one (almost). 

Quiz at 11 

John


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

So basically they're one and the same, just a variant spelling, and the variant/improper usage pre-dates railroading by a fair bit.









gaunt·let[/b] also gant·let[/b]

gant·let[/b] 
Notes on track: construction and maintenance (c 1903)[/b]
Gantlet Track - Page 439[/b]


Etymological and pronouncing dictionary of the English language: (c 1877) Page 223[/b]

A popular and complete English dictionary (c 1848) - Page 584[/b]

American dictionary of the English language: exhibiting the (1830) - Page 369[/b]

History of the British standing army. A.D. 1660 to 1700 (1894) - Page 561[/b]


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 01 Nov 2010 09:19 AM 
Woids and der roots... A gauntlet is a funnel. Where an army is forced to travel single file it is easier for the opposition to pick them off from the sides. Our native Americans did that to the calvery as they led them into canyons.... The gloves get their name from the shape as does the Gantlet, where track funnels two wide into one (almost). 

Quiz at 11 

John 

As long as we are slicing protein strands lengthwise...

The Native Americans did NOT fight the "Calvery".

Many of them accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior when they did NOT fight "Calvary", the place where Jesus died on a cross.

However, many did fight the "Cavalry", which are rapidly mobile (originally horse mounted, but now in mechanized vehicles) soldiers.

(As a kid at Sunday School, I always had trouble with those two words, "Cavalry" and "Calvary"... I could not figure out if Jesus knew Rin-tin-tin.)


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks Semp


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, I have always heard of churches named "Calvary Chapel" 

I guess I am not a very good Christian not knowing what the word meant... oops! 

Looks like I'm going to the bad place.... (no trains) 

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01 Nov 2010 12:14 PM 
Wow, I have always heard of churches named "Calvary Chapel" 

I guess I am not a very good Christian not knowing what the word meant... oops! 

Looks like I'm going to the bad place.... (no trains) 

Greg 

No problem with "Calvary Chapel".

"Cavalry Chapel" however would be a stable...

I suppose this means Jesus went from Cavalry to Calvary?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Man, I'm not touching that one! 

No politics or religion... too touchy! 

(I did chuckle though.... damnation for sure for me) 

Greg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01 Nov 2010 12:14 PM 
Wow, I have always heard of churches named "Calvary Chapel" 

I guess I am not a very good Christian not knowing what the word meant... oops! 

Looks like I'm going to the bad place.... (no trains) 

Greg ...................................................................................................................................................

Holley/holy Mac. Guess I'm going with you Greg.. Did know this tech stuff. WOW.........
and all over a rail crossing on to the main line and back off again....Think I will let that project go for a bit until I get saved from derailments.... laf.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's nice to have fun once in a while without getting into a battery vs. track power or Aristo vs. USAT discussion... 

On mondays, I need a laugh too! It's nuts at work. 

Greg


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Yup - John is right, I got it bass ackwards. 

According to my Webster's Dictionary the preferred definitions are: gauntlet is "a strong glove with a covering for the wrist", as in "to throw down the gauntlet" to challenge someone; gantlet is a "section of (overlapping) double track at a tunnel or bridge".


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Finally got some time to get back on the Bridge project.. I tried just about everything, except cut the tree down and move the walk bridge over.

A darn Dbl. track bridge just won't fit in there. So now I figure I will just go to two single track truss bridges.. but have them off set from each other.

I had to move an electrical outlet over, fudge on the walk bridge a little and move a pond feed water valve sys. 
Now I have enough room to slide around the tree. That tree is over 40 yrs old and I don't think in my time it is going to get much larger for awhile anyway.

If so , we'll cut in to it for clearance.

Here are some updates. 









New boards are 2 " X 6" Redwood. Have been water sealed and Latexed after putting in the gussets for each angle to make it as one pc.

The pond leaks a little so kind of helps waters the plants and trees. Then we drive in a 1/2 PVC Pipe. Sometimes I just about have to drive a full 10 ft. section in to get it in solid enough so boards won't move. Then to just get the right height, I put in a sheet rock screw in side of the PVC pipe to set it.

Want it strong enough to be able to stand on it and not move.

Just behind that board crossing the track, is where the new location of the Pond Float valve and regulator is located hidden in the Ivy.

.................................................................................................................................................
Next photo...
This shows the other end ( Pine Tree Jct. side.) and how it look next to main line on the left.

This also shows the temp. broad/ bridges set in and cut to link for the new bridge when done. This way we can still run trains and not hurry on getting them built. That's going take me and a buddy of mine some time to build. But when ready easy to just pull some track up and drop them in.

The abutments will be cemented in when new bridges are done.. Not sure what type to make yet.. Kind of like stone ones.. 










This also shows how I got around the tree and 10 ft. radius.

Aristo Switch is cut in and have to add small section to make it back to a 11ft. radius curve with a track bender. I may have to cut a few tis on the switch to make it look right after the frog.

This is what happens when you use a Train L. bender and forget that other stuff Like track switches are a still fixed Radius.

Guess that's why it's called " I been working on the Railroad all the live long day." laf. Nothing fits.. 

...................................................................................................................................................

Last photo 









We dropped in the old bridge in to the new branch line to see how it looks and check our link. 
This will give us about 8 to 10 more feet to get longer trains in.. It should be about a total of 30 feet now. Then goes back on the the main line at the other end of Pine Tree Jct.

Tomorrow I'll try to lay in the rest of the track, hook back up the block wires/ insulators and do a test run with some Aristo Hwt pass cars...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

That is a great idea. Two Bridges I like it


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

that looks great, even better than double track bridge Noel, good job! 
I will pray for the rest of you! lol


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great solution... I'm glad you found one. 

I recently created one 34' passing siding, and increased another from 10' to 32'... it sure makes a difference in what you can do... 

good for you... 

Greg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg.E. J.J & John B. Tks for the help on some good ideas. It was like nothing seem to want to work right for awhile. 

Well..... Had help today.. Joel H. came over to help get the tracks in and yup. I knew i would hit something .... Cut one of the Malabo walk way light/ wires yesterday when driving in a PVC pipe in the Ivy. That took an hr. to find that broken connection to that section of lights.
I try to run all water pipes and all electrical on the edge of the walk way, all the way to back of the acer lot.. Easy to find if nothing happen, but I have one place the stuff is buried after going across the pond in two 1- 1/2 PVC raceway. 
The only place I left the walk way for a short distance and I had to find the wires the hard way. sniff. 

Photo below..........
We kept doing a trial and error with the track bender until we findly got the clarence we need for the Aristo Hwt. Pass. cars. Look like about 2 inches or more to pass between the tree and walk bridge. Fact the main line on the right side of the tree is about an inch or more clearance only
Guess our track designer and CEO's at the main office are to be called a tight A * * penny pincher for R.R. property right aways.... Sure not a main line R.R. with these clearances and laying boards down for temp. bridges.. laf...












There is two painted black 2" X 6" boards w/ tracks lay-ed on them are where the new Bridges will drop in. 












Kind of an over all view of the new tracks... Just need to ballast and level and that section is done after new bridges are built. Least we can run train until I get in gear on bridges. 


















I think this was a fun project.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

WOW, that's awesome!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Another good clearance checking car is the RDC... it takes a bit more room than the heavyweights. 

I have found out the hard way, I need some Santa Fe red touchup paint for the cab of my RDC-1 ! 

Greg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07 Nov 2010 08:21 AM 
Another good clearance checking car is the RDC... it takes a bit more room than the heavyweights. 

I have found out the hard way, I need some Santa Fe red touchup paint for the cab of my RDC-1 ! 

Greg .........................................................................................................................................................................

Oh .. Tk's Greg.. I didn't know that. I'll have to find some one around here that has one.. I think Dick Friedman a member of the SVGS. club may still have one.
Looks like the SD40-2 works ok. I haven't tried any USA SL.Pass cars yet either. I don't have any. 
They are a little longer than the Aristo Hwt. pass cars to.
We don't have to many guys running any USA long pass cars or Big Boy's due to the min. of 10' Dia.curves.

We do have another close clarence on a main line shot cut back to the main line that we use. It's has a water shed that had to be installed due to it goes under the fish pond large waterwheel and stanchions that hold the main beams. So the water shed has a streight section of track going thru it with only a 6-3/4 inch's Clarence. 
Thats the only way to keep the water off the tracks and trains. 

Yesterday, We installed 3 track track signals and did some balast work. Came out ok, but not sure what this rain today is going to do the Mortor in the balast yet.. 
" We took some photo today right quick."


















That animated squirerl on top of chimney is sure getting wet.. laf.
We truned on the timers and ck the lighting around the layout last night.. Boy what a difference by moving the station down and putting some LED ( Flat head Incd. color LED's) lights on the trains water tank. 
The layout for night runs is really coming to life. Close to a 100 lights now. 

Guess I need to stop stuff on this post.. Getting away from the orgnal question to J.J. on bridges.. laf..


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Looks good Noel...... I'm prepping some big diesels and can bring over a gaggle of streamliners when your ready to play trains. 

Michael


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 07 Nov 2010 04:43 PM 

Looks good Noel...... I'm prepping some big diesels and can bring over a gaggle of streamliners when your ready to play trains. 

Michael 


That Santa fe Pacific would look good pulling streamline cars of your to.. hehhehehehe


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

We started to set down and make up a Jig for our replacement two 5 foot bridges. 
Material is cut and ready to tack weld in our Jig. 
Looks like we are going to make the top to come off or raise up due to need a easy way to clean the tracks over the Walk way bridge railings.
Here shows the Jig and 1'2 tubing material set up for each bridge. Old wood bridge is show-en next to Jig. 



















One bridge that sets on the outer side of the pond will have 2 red water way lights on the bottom side beam to notify boats clearance. 
Theses will be plugged in the the Malabu yard lighting sys. 

I cont. posting on here to see if J.J. would show his update on his bridge he show us at the beginning of this post. Like to see how his long Dbl. track bridge is coming along.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Nice Jig you have!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I will go out and take some pictures with in the next few days. Lately since I am now on my own I do not have yucky mondays because if there is nothing to do on monday I don't do nothing on monday But now it seems when I want to do something on the layout or even make at trip to the dump something work wise gets in the way or there are clouds that hide the sun and the temp is too low to really be outside. But I went out anyway. I now have a cold. 



JJ


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Just an update...
We got our two bridges back yesterday from Howard L. that he did the welding on. I not much of a welder and he dose great work. There cleaned up and primed now.. 











We have a walk bridge with 12 foot railing where these are going to be installed. It's to hard to reach over to try to clean the tracks with a padded pole sander. 
So we came up with an idea to remove the top off of them.
The center cross brace is for a over head light fixture will be mounted by drilling out hole to run the wire thru the tubing and then sealed back up with Metal tape. There will be also two red LED light on the bottom of the outside of one for boat traffic to see. 
Both bridges will have a elect. plugs to be able to remove for maint. if need.










Notice how the gussets become the guide for the top. There cut out of shipping banding, shaped and then tacked on the removal top. 












This shows the Banding runners used for the ties to set on.
There will be Redwood strips inserted along the ties for a walk way on both sides. This will hold the track from moving due the tracks are floating on the bridge and not screwed down.
Both bridges will be sealed ends and painted Silver that seam to last long out here in the weather we have.










We have the Jig make up so any one wants any size of what we made let us know.. They are all metal & would be heavy to ship tho and are time comsuming to build.. 
Well... looks like I have a got a lot of work to do now for my R.R. 
One thing is, there set up to just drop in where I took out the old bridge and pull out the temp 2 x 4 boards.







.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 01 Dec 2010 12:26 AM 
I will go out and take some pictures with in the next few days. Lately since I am now on my own I do not have yucky mondays because if there is nothing to do on monday I don't do nothing on monday But now it seems when I want to do something on the layout or even make at trip to the dump something work wise gets in the way or there are clouds that hide the sun and the temp is too low to really be outside. But I went out anyway. I now have a cold. 



JJ 

Still waiting to pick your brain for an update when you get a chance Guy..... I still have one more long bridge (a 14 to 20 foot, not sure yet.) idea and still like to see how yours is doing and how you are going to set it up on...

I think I will still try to use a dbl. bridge for a added siding to Bakers Acers and use it to extend the lead to the turn table there. This would make a good lead track to it. Beside I have a bad place With Pampus Grass that I have to go thru and is hard to get down to the ground level there.

So.. John. Give me some more ideas.. laf.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Ok here is what Cozad Crossing bridge looks like to day


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Tks John... Yours look about what I made here but single track. 
Your Dbl. bridges look like they are around 5 foots long to, but I do see your Girder bridges and maybe that would be the way to go due easier to make and it's going thru the darn pampas grass and that crap bits. Might be a easier way to clean the tracks to. 

So question, John...... 
What are your Girder bridges made out off that you are showing ahead of the Dbl. bridges? 

When I was elect. contractor yrs' back doing Berger Kings and Denny's. I notice around the top of the buildings, they cover there 2 x 8 boards/boarders with some kind of metal Tin covering.. Is that what maybe you make your Girders bridges out of? 

Anyway if I go to a Girder bridge maybe go about 3 inch for sides and across the bottom for two track, 13 inches wide like you suggested at the beginning of the post. 

Still just throwing stuff in the hat to fig. out what is best and cheapest way. 
The area I'm trying to do is way back of the layout and you can only see the train in a few places, but need something to keep the track up about 2 foot off the ground in that area.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

My bridges are made out of 3/4 x 3/4 steel tube. Each bridge you see there is 10 FT long. The approaches are 1/4 x 4 inch flat steel. They are about 3 ft and 4 ft long.
The bottom of the gurder bridges are 3/4 x3/4 tube. 

Under the tacks are two strips of steel 3/4 x 1/8th They are welded to the 3/4 x3/4 tube. They are spaced so the edge if the strip is even with the outside edge of the ties.

Here is something else you may want to look at 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

JJ


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

This is what it was like before I added the wide curve .


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Findley got around to pull the temp. bridges ( 2 " X 6" boards ) out and installed the two new steel bridges. Just finished shimming them up today... Only problem we had was I had to un- solder the wire off one target signal and move it to the other side of the tree. Now they are done and will cement up some small rock at the end of the bridges when it warms up a bit.
Both bridges have light over the track and outside bridge has the navigation red lights on bottom side. And are plugged into the Malabo yard lights. 











Whats nice about these two bridges is due to so close to the walk bridge is, the tops come off to make it easer to clean the tracks over the railing.











Guess.........I need to paint the swing bridge silver to match all of the other bridges on the layout now.










For now they are finished, but now have two more bridges to install some where.. One 5 foot covered bridge and one 4 foot wooden bridge.

I just went back on the old post and re-read some of the suggestion and wanted to say thanks to all for the help on trying to fig. out this bugger. I have chipped, dug, move water pipes, move some underground wiring and jacked a walk bridge over to get this thing in.. Now if that tree get larger, Whack out the side of like they do in the Redwoods. laf. 

There was a lot of good ideas here. Tk's again, Noel


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The two bridges look great 

JJ


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Hey Noel, 
That turned out great! The double bridges look super - great work around. 
Best, Ted


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Now I wonder if I should double bridge Cozad's Crossing.


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