# DSP&P 2 6 0 Cooke Mogul #71



## yoyotoo (Jul 16, 2010)

Can anyone tell me definitively if this Mogul as delivered to the DSP&P in 1885 was coal or wood burning? LGB says woodburning. Others say LGB is wrong. It was definitely rebuilt and was coal fired by the C & S; but how did it start out and is the answer definitive.
Thanks for your help. This is my first interactuion with an online forum.


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

According to builders records found in "The Colorado Road", both Brooks and Cooke Moguls that were run on the predecessor roads of the C&S (of which the DSP&P was one) ran only coal. Cooke designs were for 6 tons of coal and Brooks design stated "5 tons coal." The "Congdon" style smokestack was an integrated spark arrestor much like the ones found on wood burners but in this case they were used for coal. Hope this answers your question.


----------



## yoyotoo (Jul 16, 2010)

Steve,
Yes, and thanks a million; I really appreciate the help. 
Rusty


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Rusty,

Previous members have answered your question, I made one of #69 from using a Bachmann Annie for the chassis: it was my first scratchbuilt loco.



















I chose #69 as there was a photo of it with a snowplough on the front that I liked. There was a topioc on it a long while ago now, but here are a couple of photos of the result.


----------



## woodyvarnish (Jun 3, 2010)

Hello Peter 
I am thrilled to see the two photos of your Cooke Mogul. I would love to build a simiilar model... and I am wondering where one would come up with detail parts for the superstructure, such as... Domes, Stack, Headlight, etc. ? 

thanks, Alan


----------



## yoyotoo (Jul 16, 2010)

Peter, 
Thanks for your reply and photos. Your 2 6 0 is absolutely amazing!! It is one of the finest models I've ever seen. After reviewing these responses and closely examining the Builder's photo in an old LGB catalogue and schematics of the # 71 Cooke 2 6 0s at Crain's, it appears that the LGB model of the #71 tender is a decent replica except that the bin apparently held coal, not timber. The drawings are not definitive on this as they do not show any load in the tender and, as Steve related, the style of spark arrester was used on coal as well as timber locos. The walls and tool boxes on the LGB model are very close to the drawings and, Pete, you apparently found a photo that shows wood (?) rails at the top of the coal bin (at least on the sides; I can't see the rear in your photos). These rails are not on any of the aforementioned drawings. These railings would need to be modified on the LGB because they obviously are split and would need to to be solid like yours appear to be Pete. Any further help would be greatly appreciated. My goal is to convert the LGB #71 tender from wood to coal. I plan to use actual scale coal. Thanks a million guys.


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Alan,

With the exception of the bell and frame, which came from the original 'Annie' donor for the chassis, the rest is all scratch built - David Fletcher (who was a great help with this loco)was in the middle of building the Mason Bogie, and all was made using some of the ideas from that MasterClass.

The domes are when broken down just tubes and discs, the base bit of tube was roughly drilled to the curve of the boiler, then smoothed off and the fit verified and with the boiler tube covered in sandpaper run back & forth so they match, keep it straight whilst sanding though!

The rings on the domes are styrene card with the edge rounded off, the top is a series of discs stacked and glued, then with a mandrel (a nut and bolt) through the middle (the hole is covered with a disc or sandbox lid) fitted to a secured drill and shaped off with a knife blade and files. The drillis being uswed like a lathe, and because it is speiining the shape will be symmetrical.

Equally the headlight top is the same asm the dome in its construction but hand held for shaping with a sanding drum, and a template to keep it the same side to side, and back to front!

The bracket for the bell can be made from styrene card - the first thing though is to find the bell, and then make the bracket accordingly if you do not have one, again its a series of bits of styrene with the main part of the bracket being laminated for strength.

There was an article is the December 1998 issue of Model Railroader on these locos that was a start to this project, and is quite good but the colour is wrong - they show the loco to be blue, iyt includes a plan. Lots of dust is produced whilst shaping but it is quite easy, and you have a proper size headlamp; the reflector is from a babies milk measuring spoon.

The decals were designed by me (David Fletcher designed the builders plate and the front number plate using his CAD program) and printed by Stan Cedarleaf in metallic gold & red. The dome decoration was made as a quarter of the design, the duplicated and put together, to keep it even(side to side, and back to front ) and looking correct. 

Yes it took quite a time, but I have that being retired. There is a series of articles on my small website which is part of my daughters commercial site: here is a link to the first part - 

http://www.musiccorner.co.uk/a308/Part-1-The-Denver-South-Park-Pacific-RR-Cooke-Locomotive-Wor/article_info.html 


If you look down the left hand side of the website there is an index for the rest, goto G scale railway, then locomotives and goto the bottom of the list, where they are listed.


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Yoyotoo, 

Ther LGB mogul is I believbe a 'generic;' one I think that the driving wheels are wrong in the spacing - there was an article in Russ Reinbergs Finescale Annual for 2004 about the locos and a Joe Crea drawing had a note on it that the drawing was modified (from driver spacing & wheelbase) to fit the LGB mogul, which possibly suggests that LGB were using a 'stock' motor block. 

Joe Crea was making a rebuilt Brooks mogul in the article. Mine and David Fletchers rebuilt version as well are Cooke Mogul;s, and were in the 2005 edition of the Annual. The Brooks moguls had smaller fireboxes, and were known as 'Cold water Brooks', they must have been unable to boil the water, which MAY have been as a result of the height (above sea level) that they worked at. 

Cooke Loco Works also supplied some consolidations - models of these are being made by Accucraft at the moment, the moguls were almost as large as these.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter:

I'm a little confused by your statement that higher elevation may have been a problem. As you go up in elevation water boils at a lower temperature. My totally uninformed guess is that the size of the firebox relative to the boiler was insufficient to efficiently boil enough water to provide the necessary steam to pull a train.


Chuck N


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Taking the "wood pile" out and changing it to a coal pile using real coal is a relatively easy modification. Kevin Strong did a nice article on adding coal to model tenders. It works for almost any model and it adds a completely new level of realism! As to LGB's Mogul, the Company's spokesmen have long maintained that they are makers of "toy trains" as opposed to scale models like Bachmann! Before I get flamed by the faithful, this is merely a fact and_ not_ a slam on LGB! That being said, the DSP&P Mogul was the most accurate of all the Mogul designs (and the 2-6-0 was the most prolific of LGB's "American profile" engines!) Getting it to the accuracy of a Peter Bunce or David Fletcher masterpiece is unrealistic as their creations are scale models requiring them to completely scratch-build almost all of their models! What you _can_ do is kit-bash your LGB Mogul by adding detail parts, repainting and re-decalling and possibly some minor styrene work! The level of detail is up to you. The results should surprise and please you!


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for that: I will have been somewhat confused - that is the sort of thinking I was doing, but my fingers didn't put it down (on the screen) right!


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Shortly after LGB came out with the original D&SP mogul (#2018), with red boiler and green tender with a wood load, and before it came with a coal burning version, I rebuilt my 2018 into a coal burning version.

This required sawing off the steam and sand domes, and removing the kerosene lamp and diamond stack on the engine and replacing the wood load and open fencing around the top of the tender with a solid sided coal bunker. Not to mention repainting and new decals.

At this time Caboose Hobbies had a pair of machined brass domes, a brass straight stack, and a brass head light. I made a small pan out of copper sheeting for the tender to hold the coal.


As I recall the decals were O-gauge. That is all that was available at the time (late 80's).



















Had I waited a few more months I could have bought a C&S (modern with coal) version with sound, without modifying the original "Christmas Mogul". I ultimately bought a used C&S Mogul from Gary Coleman.



Chuck N


----------



## yoyotoo (Jul 16, 2010)

Dear Peter; 

"I chose #69 as there was a photo of it with a snowplough on the front that I liked." 


Can you either post this picture or tell me where to access it, either a book or the internet. I can't find anything. 

Thanks, 
Rusty


----------

