# BAGRS Basic project engine



## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

For the last few months have been getting all the materials I needed to start this project. Its something like a Thumb Thumb steam engine. I saw this on the web a few years ago and really loved it but never had the guts to try it because it was live steam. Now that Im out of diapers with the live steam Im more comfortable at attemting to build this. It looks like a fun project. Here is the link for those intrested:
http://www.panyo.com/project/index.htm


SO far I have all the materials required to build this and wood all cut. 


I pinted out the plans ect for the project and put it all into a binder.








All the materials


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Can't wait to see this on running on the track. Please do a build log on this so we can watch the progress.

Thanks, Bob


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

They are fun to watch.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Last night I got the main frame together. Today I did the planks over the main frame and added the the boiler base plate to the bottom. (Im using basswood for the main frame and decking). So far it seems to be an easy and fun project. Waiting for the glue to dry takes the most time. My next step is to cut to squares into the decking for the chains and then start addiding the journals, wheels and sprokets. 

Bottom with the boiler base plate 







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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

There was a guy at Marty's that had one he built on a plastic LGB freight car truck. Sagged a bit in the middle! Ran good though.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry I saw a youtube video of one made out of all brass. Weighed over 4 lbs. Not sure if I would use plastic with heat. Wonder if sagged from the heat. Its a neat build. Eventualy I might add a butan burner to it. I have seen this engine converted that way and seems to run better.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Here is a photo of my version I built many years ago from scratch. it uses a gear to tranmit the power to the wheels rather than the chain drive of the BARGS project. it burns alcohol.









By the way, Shawn, did you get a kit of parts or did you have to source all the parts individually?


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking great Shawn. Just itching to see the video of the first run.


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys , the brass one is mine. Here is the link to the video. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_r1doDEak4 

The reason for brass is simple , I just love building things made of brass. It is easy to work with and I have the tools and experience to do it. Never considered wood for this project at all. 

Charles M SA # 74


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles I really like the all brass engine you did. It looks great.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

There is no end to variations. They are only limited by your imagination.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By weaverc on 26 Jan 2012 12:21 PM 
There is no end to variations. They are only limited by your imagination. 




Indeed that is true!  
here is my variation on the theme:


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Very cool guys. I never realized how many variations are out their. 
Eric I forget to answere your question on page 1. I ordered all the parts separately. One of the venderes I guess made a kit for this project but seems they are no longer around.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I spent the last few evenings working on the engine. (After the kids went to bed) Progress is going faster then I thought. Have been spending about an hour at night on the days I work. So far its a fun little project and I already have some ideas for the next one I plan on doing (something on the ends of a Class A Climax  

I got the holes drilled and filed down till they were squared. 







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The next step was to build the idler assembly. I had to cut all the brass pieces and bend the bracket. 







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Next step is the steam power.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Great job Shawn. Won't be long and 'yer running.

vr Bob


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Did a little more work today. 

I started with the engine 







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Engine was attached with the chains. 







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I also attached the lubricator but pic did not download will have t try again later. Next step is the boiler.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

heres themost updated shot with the lubricator attached.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

More progress today. 
I put the pins in the main frame to hold the fuel cup and then I added a rusted metal plate on the bottom to protect the wood and add some detail.







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fuel cup and steam lines installed.







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Next I have to add the fuel bunker and then do te roof. Last step will be stain and test run.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Be sure to take some video for us. It's looking sweet.

vr Bob


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Since my last update I completed the bunker and the roof. At first I was going to keep it opened like the plans have but after thinking about it I decided a roof would really look good. Plus the KMRR can see all types of weather. The guys needed some protection. The roof is removable that way I can get the boiler out and refuel. he roof is an actuall metal roof I got from an barn localy. (Same one used on my Class A Climax). 








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Next step is to add some railing to the front and sides. Then I hope to get it stained and add the details - link and pin couplers, pole pockets, rivets, wood load and a bunch of other tools and junk  Then it will be time to fire it up.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking great Shawn! love the roof!








Scot


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

My project engine is almost done. I got the wood stained using walnut. (its a little darker then wanted) I added some details to the inside and out. I did attempt a test run yesterday but it was 35 degrees and did not run. A friend of mine has an engine like this that had the same issue. With some experimenting he was able to improve the performance of the engine by almost 50%. His engine would barley work on flat surface. The trick was to create a gap between the boiler and the outside wrap. This allows the sterno flame to heat the sides as well as the bottom. giving it more heat and more steam pressure. He test ran his on my layout in the same temps and it ran very well (see video in Live steam thread) I did the same to mine. A campbells soup can was used for the outside wrap on the boiler. It is more sturdy and creates the gap needed. I also secured the boiler to the can so it can be removed as one unit when filling the sterno. I hope to test run it today and then add wood siding to the outside boiler wrap. 

boiler with soup can as wrap. 









Top view with brass strips to hold boiler in place. 









New boiler wrap and detailes added 









Inside


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I did a test run on my garage floor (with a slope) and it ran great. The gap proved to make a hudge difference. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlLRh8EiI7U&feature=youtu.be 


Next test is on the layout


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful run. The boiler cladding looks like it worked. Great job!! Welcome to the live steam builders guild.


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## Batsco (Mar 30, 2011)

This is one good looking loco. 
I am planning to build one myself and have been studying the plans, in the parts lists it states that a kit of parts is available from 'Sulphur Springs Models' but I can't seem to find their website links to it that I have found just don't work has Sulphur Springs gone out of business and is there another model company that is producing the kits or do I have to go and collect them individually myself? 

I am in Aust and all the parts will have to come from the US as I don't think they are available locally. 

Any help will be greatly appreciated.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Batsco on 25 Feb 2012 08:30 PM 
This is one good looking loco. 
I am planning to build one myself and have been studying the plans, in the parts lists it states that a kit of parts is available from 'Sulphur Springs Models' but I can't seem to find their website links to it that I have found just don't work has Sulphur Springs gone out of business and is there another model company that is producing the kits or do I have to go and collect them individually myself? 

I am in Aust and all the parts will have to come from the US as I don't think they are available locally. 

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sulphur Springs is no longer around so you will have to get everything individualy. All the sites are on the parts list. I would try to get as much as you can from Aust. otherwise it will be very expensive. I would image you can similar items by you. The Midwest steam engine as of now is hard to get. Everyone seems to be out od stock and not sure when Midwest is producing more.


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## Engineer Larry (Jun 2, 2009)

The Heritage boiler and steam engine seem to be available here.

Steam In The Garden magazine published a series of articles on upgrading the BAGRS Project Engine. Some of the upgrades were replacing the Sterno fuel system with a 3 wick alcohol fired burner, and rerouting the steam exhaust up the chimney to act as a blower for the alcohol burner. I built the Project engine to print with all the upgrades. I bought the Midwest kit, and silver soldered the boiler, so that I could raise the operating pressure a bit.The boiler was lagged with insulation before putting on the cladding. A water gauge glass was installed, as was a pressure gauge and relief valve. It ran fairly well, but suffered from the fire dying out. I now know that a better blower needs to be installed to keep the fire going.

A fun project, and was my first introduction into "scratchbuilding" a live steam locomotive. The next one to tackle was the 2-4-0 design by Charles Mynhier as seen here, serialized in Steam In The Garden magazine. (Note the prototype was an 0-4-0, but the articles included a front truck).


Nice looking engine, Shawn. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted.

Larry


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry thanks for the link. Ill have to give them a try. I ound that there is no need to use alcohol for the burner. Te sterno works great and is safer. I ran my project engine with temps in the 20's and wind. It ran great and even handled some grades. I have since added a few things to the engine. Changed the tubing to copper, made roof and frame removable.








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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Really nice Shawn. The BAGRS look great!! If you get a chance, can you post some video??

Thanks and congrats Bob


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bob here is a video before the new additions. 
http://vimeo.com/36290680


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Love it, what a great runner.


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## steamboatmodel (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By snowshoe on 26 Feb 2012 05:34 AM 
Posted By Batsco on 25 Feb 2012 08:30 PM 
This is one good looking loco. 
I am planning to build one myself and have been studying the plans, in the parts lists it states that a kit of parts is available from 'Sulphur Springs Models' but I can't seem to find their website links to it that I have found just don't work has Sulphur Springs gone out of business and is there another model company that is producing the kits or do I have to go and collect them individually myself? 

I am in Aust and all the parts will have to come from the US as I don't think they are available locally. 

Any help will be greatly appreciated. Sulphur Springs is no longer around so you will have to get everything individualy. All the sites are on the parts list. I would try to get as much as you can from Aust. otherwise it will be very expensive. I would image you can similar items by you. The Midwest steam engine as of now is hard to get. Everyone seems to be out od stock and not sure when Midwest is producing more. 


Unfortunately Midwest has stopped producing model kits, so unless you find one in a hobby shop or E-Bay you will have to make your own.
Regards,
Gerald.


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

That loco is very cool Shawn. And louder then I expected, must be that direct exhaust. Good motivation to get me off my behind and start building one too.


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## dmunseyjr (Feb 16, 2008)

Here is another option for the engine (boiler is not included).



http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/Unit%20Steam.htm


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## dmunseyjr (Feb 16, 2008)

Hit the submit button to quickly. 

Nice engine - appears ready to assemble without any major work, other than lapping the engine face.
About 50% larger than the Midwest engine.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

That Forest Classics website has some really interesting things on it! Those little ceramic burners for butane could be very useful!


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Amber,
I have a Forrest Classic ceramic burner in my 7/8ths vertical boiler back woods tram that works perfectly. Once the ceramic is glowing, fuel flow can be greatly reduced for long runs.


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## dmunseyjr (Feb 16, 2008)

I have an unassembled Midwest kit that needs a new home. Contact me at dmunseyjr-at-comcast-dot-net for details.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Shawn, She looks great. I think I like the Campbells can better than the wood lagging on the boiler. It makes it look really rustic. It turned out great and the detail really adds to it. You might want to try wrapping the steam feed to the engine with some type of insulation for just a bit more oomph.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

How do you tell when you're running out of water in the boiler?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Amber on 01 Mar 2012 08:48 PM 
How do you tell when you're running out of water in the boiler? 

I don't know about this particular engine, but on all that I have seen, they seem to become a bit more "peppy" as the water level drops. It becomes easier for the fire to boil the lower quantity of water and the steam is replenished faster as it is used. When the engine suddenly stops dead, often just as it seems to be running really, really well, is when it has run out of water completely and it is time to extinguish the fire as quickly as possible, expecially a coal or gas fire (less so of a panic for an alcohol fire). And at that point DO NOT try to add water until the boiler has cooled to a comfortable touch by the hand on the backhead or any other part of the actual boiler shell (and not on just a decorative cover) as the thermal shock of the cold water hitting the hot metal could crack it or split a seam.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Amber on 01 Mar 2012 08:48 PM 
How do you tell when you're running out of water in the boiler? 
After practicing with your engine you find the "sweet spot". The right level where it runs best. You learn how much water goes in at the start, how long the fuel lasts. So you just know. Our Gauge 1 locos have little personalities. Sometimes they misbehave and need a time out. 

If the engine runs out of water first, it usually clunks to an immediate stop. If it runs out of fuel, it will drift along and slow to a stop. Of course, professional Gauge 1 operators neither run out of fuel, nor water.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Amber on 01 Mar 2012 08:48 PM 
How do you tell when you're running out of water in the boiler? When using the sterno the fire goes out before it runs out of water. A freind of mine has a larger sterno cup so the water goes first. The best way to tell is the engine starts to really slow down and then stops. When it does that just blow down the stack and the sterno flame goes out.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By snowshoe on 02 Mar 2012 04:58 AM 
Posted By Amber on 01 Mar 2012 08:48 PM 
How do you tell when you're running out of water in the boiler? When using the sterno the fire goes out before it runs out of water. A freind of mine has a larger sterno cup so the water goes first. The best way to tell is the engine starts to really slow down and then stops. When it does that just blow down the stack and the sterno flame goes out. 


How do you extinguish a sterno flame? For the alcohol loco's I use a CO2 bicycle tire inflator. The small size uses regular BB gun cylinders.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

Sterno is gelled alcohol and blows out easily, the CO2 inflator will work just as well. 

Steve


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I suppose that once you figure out how long the engine will typically run on one boiler full of water, you could add water through the fill valve, if you have one, to keep on going longer. 
When you use sterno to run the boiler, do you use those little cans that you can buy at different places, or do you do it in a different way?


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

I remove the sterno from the can with a tongue depressor and fill the fuel tray of the engine. Adding a goodall valve could be done but then the trouble is adding fuel like sterno will be troublesome. With my midwest engine powered boats and loco fueled with sterno i get a consistant 20 minutes of run time. I made a new fuel tray that is 3/4" deep to extend the run time. 

Steve


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

To put the sterno out a blow or two down the stack will put the flame out. I just buy the sterno cans and use a small spoon to scoop it out. A paint can opener wroks great for opening the sterno cans without damaging the lids.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I'll have to check into that, it seems easier than making an alcohol burner.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Amber on 03 Mar 2012 06:37 PM 
I'll have to check into that, it seems easier than making an alcohol burner. I think sterno is alot easier and safer. A friend of mine did a project engine and made it into an alchol burner. He ended up going back to sterno. The sterno gives enough fire to get the engine moving but you need that gap between the boiler and wrap. Without it the engine will run very slow and will only work on flat track.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By steamboatmodel on 27 Feb 2012 09:45 AM



Unfortunately Midwest has stopped producing model kits, so unless you find one in a hobby shop or E-Bay you will have to make your own.
Regards,
Gerald.

I just spoke with Midwest they will be producing the Midwest engines in 3-4 weeks. I had an extra one that was defected and they are going to replace it for me but they said it will be 3-4 weeks before they start making more.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By snowshoe on 06 Mar 2012 04:21 AM 
Posted By steamboatmodel on 27 Feb 2012 09:45 AM



Unfortunately Midwest has stopped producing model kits, so unless you find one in a hobby shop or E-Bay you will have to make your own.
Regards,
Gerald.

I just spoke with Midwest they will be producing the Midwest engines in 3-4 weeks. I had an extra one that was defected and they are going to replace it for me but they said it will be 3-4 weeks before they start making more. 


Great news, It's good to see when a manufacturer can come out of moth balls or start new because public demand is there. Any new video of the engine all dolled up with details?


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## steamboatmodel (Jan 2, 2008)

That is good news as when I talked to them last year they said that they were dropping all the Model Kits and only selling what was in stock. Was it just the boiler/engine kits they were reviving? There web site still shows most items "Item Out of Stock ". 
Regards, 
Gerald.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By steamboatmodel on 07 Mar 2012 10:51 AM 
That is good news as when I talked to them last year they said that they were dropping all the Model Kits and only selling what was in stock. Was it just the boiler/engine kits they were reviving? There web site still shows most items "Item Out of Stock ". 
Regards, 
Gerald. 
They did not say what ones but im assuming they will be making the midwest heritage steam engine still. Thats the one i have. They also make the Midwest model VI steam engine kit. The steam engine VI kit is much different. You have to solder the boiler, the engine bore is smaller and the frame is not brass. This is the one they might not be making anymore since its not as popular. The heritage engine is not realy a kit its already together for the most part.


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## dmunseyjr (Feb 16, 2008)

Any one tried one of these to replace the Sterno heat source.


Half-penny Stove 

Keep in touch.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

These guys have zillions of stoves ideas too.

Zen Stoves


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## h freeman (Apr 2, 2011)

Has anyone had any luck finding the 987 Heritage steam engine or a sub. for the BPE?
I have one on B/O from one site and every other place i try is out of them.
Thanks Howard


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Nope- Im in same situation. Waiting.........


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Howard
I had to send a defected engine back to Mid West. They said that they do not have any in production. They said 3-4 weeks. That was over two months ago. I contacted them a few weeks ago and the response was hopefully soon. They are going to make more and I hope soon because they owe me a new one to replace my defective one. Everyone is out of stock as of now. When I get more info ll post.


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## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

An easier way to fill the Sterno cup is to thin it down with anhydrous alcohol so it will squirt out of a ketchup squeeze bottle. Burns a little hotter too. Just use ethanol for the pink stuff or methanol for the purple variety (much cheaper if you can find it). The gel needs a certain amount of water to form.


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