# Aster locos information



## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

Hello everybody, 
After a while since I wrote last time, I'm close to choose my first live steam loco, between 2 Aster models: br78 DB and C11 JNR. I'like to have some hints by those ones who have or had them, about duration of running and possibility of refilling while still in pressure, capability of slow running, minimal radius, possibility of RC fitting, other features you judge important or interesting. Does for example C11 have sprung axles?
Thanks to anyone who could help
Alberto


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*Aster c11*

I have a C-11. I would not advise refueling during running. It would be a disaster if you spilled any fuel while it is still under fire in that the wicks are almost directly under the fuel tank.
There are. guys who refuel during running but the have separeate fule tanks that they can interchange.
I would go with the BR 78

I just remebered It is a Goodall valve that wllows you to add water while under pressure.


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## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

hi artgibson and thanks for you reply.
actually I was thinking about reffiling water in the boiler, as I have read somewhere that those models run out of water before they run out of fuel.
in what do you think Br78 is better than C11?
what else can you tel me about C11? is it a satisfying engine? does it have anything you don't like?
Alberto


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

alberto77 said:


> hi artgibson and thanks for you reply.
> actually I was thinking about reffiling water in the boiler, as I have read somewhere that those models run out of water before they run out of fuel.
> in what do you think Br78 is better than C11?
> what else can you tel me about C11? is it a satisfying engine? does it have anything you don't like?
> Alberto


Sorry I miss read your request. I have the device"I am having a senior moment" that you use to put the water in while under pressure..t
is 11:30 and I dont remeber what u call it. Any way she runs pretty good and I have not run her recently
I just like the looks of the Br 78


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

artgibson said:


> Sorry I miss read your request. I have the device"I am having a senior moment" that you use to put the water in while under pressure and I dont remeber what u call it .....


One name for it is a 'Goodall valve' ....










and it can be used with .....


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

John 842 said:


> One name for it is a 'Goodall valve' ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I did remeber it was a goodall after I laid down in the bed to goto sleep.


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## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

artgibson, since you have the C11, I'd like to know from you if you think there is enough room in the cab to fit in RC controls (from the pics I found on the internet, it seems way smaller than the cab of Br78), and if the axles are sprung or fix
thanx!


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## derPeter (Dec 26, 2010)

Hallo Alberto,
before thinking about Details like RC-space in cabin, you should be clear about the cars you would like to run:
C11 is Japanese and has Kadee-couplers => you may run US-stuff
BR 78 is German, has buffers + small hook-couplers => you need European-stuff..
This decision should be Primary in my thinking..
greetings derPeter


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## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

hello derPeter,
it is a question of great importance indeed, but my primary need is to buy a steam locomotive I won't regret buying for some reason maybe I didn't know before (like I won't be able to fit in RC, water lasts too little and it is not possible to refill, it has slip eccentric instead of something working properly, etc).
one negative thing in Br78 for example is that coupled wheels are not sprung and connecting rods are not articulated but in one piece (a minor detail, but that's it)
about C11 coupling, do you know if it is common to the US or similar model couplings (I mean also distance from the rail level)?
cheers
Alberto


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

alberto77 said:


> artgibson, since you have the C11, I'd like to know from you if you think there is enough room in the cab to fit in RC controls (from the pics I found on the internet, it seems way smaller than the cab of Br78), and if the axles are sprung or fix
> thanx!


Alberto
I will look to see about place for r/c. I dont think there is room though. Google both of the engines and look at the video of them running. If you are just getting started in alcohol fiirinf=g I would suggest hand on running of the engine. Gives you more comfort as to right level of water and such.
I will look though at cab to see what space is available.


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## gearedsoft (Jun 20, 2009)

a friend of mine has a BR78, and it's a good runner and makes a lot of steam, but I wouldn't recomment it for a beginner, it has a combined blower and regulator. I think it;s the only Aster with this combined function. 

When you know how to run a regular engine, this isn't a problem, you get used to it. For RC it will be strange for one stick function. In the middle it closes the regulator and the blower, when moving backwards it opens the blower, when moving forward it opens the regulator.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay
I looked at m..y C-11 just now and I see no way that r/c could be used. The depth of the area around where throttle is located is less than one inch deep. Very little room around the throttle to install servo. and there is little or no room close to draft control.
. BTW I was not aware of the control system on the br78


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

alberto77 said:


> Hello everybody ...... I'like to have some hints by those ones who have or had them ......... Thanks to anyone who could help
> Alberto


A couple of 'hints' I would give ....

- Don't consider a gauge one locomotive without suspension on all axles. You would probably be OK without springing on on a near perfect track - but if you ever aspire to running on the majority of 'normal' tracks then suspension is a high priority on all but the smaller shunters (switchers).

- Don't consider a gauge one loco with slip reversing. Apart from the fact that it is non-prototypical - if you ever want to install directional radio contol in the future, it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, with the consequent negative effect on the value of the model.

Obviously these hints might not be applicable if you were to be offered something for 'silly' money ....


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## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

Hi John, I'd never consider slip eccentric or similar for the very reason you wrote. In fact I'd like to make also some shunting and without a proper gearing it is impossible. About springing, I rate it very important, but I saw really a lot of videos where also a loco like Br78 runs fine on uneven tracks. The fact is that I found just 1 Aster loco (with affordable price) on sale that has sprung axles, a Eb3/5, that's really small and don't thing can host RC controls, even if a contrary evidence can come on this thread.
Greetings
Alberto


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## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

hi gearedsoft,from the pics it seems to me that also C11 JNR has the same configuration, so let's ask for confirmation to artgibson (maybe for draft control he intended that? sorry, don't get it clearly).

Br78 seems to have more room in the cab than C11 and probably I'm gonna buy the former - Br78. 

At the beginning I'll use it surely manual, but I want to have something that in the short future will be RC run, and probably I'll try to install draincocks as well, in may opinion so important but too often forgotten.


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## Staraad (Feb 5, 2018)

The BR78 is a very good and powerfull steamer.
A little bit off-scale, i think its 1/29, but that was especially done by Aster(-Fulgurex) to present you enough space for building in RC-equipment. Mind you, servo's were a lot bigger in the 80's.

Greetings from Holland,

Aad


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Staraad said:


> The BR78 is a very good and powerfull steamer.
> A little bit off-scale, i think its 1/29, but that was especially done by Aster(-Fulgurex) to present you enough space for building in RC-equipment. Mind you, servo's were a lot bigger in the 80's.
> 
> Greetings from Holland,
> ...


Aad,

I agree that the BR78 is a good and powerful steamer (see video). I do not agree however with the 1/29 scale you mention. The ASTER BR78 (or SNCF 232TC) is very close to scale. For instance: Length of the real engine is 1480 cm and the ASTER engine is 46.4 cm, this is 1:31.9 (and 1480 divided by 32 = 46.25 and by 29 is 51). 

Regards
Fred


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## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

Staraad said:


> The BR78 is a very good and powerfull steamer.
> A little bit off-scale, i think its 1/29, but that was especially done by Aster(-Fulgurex) to present you enough space for building in RC-equipment. Mind you, servo's were a lot bigger in the 80's.
> 
> Greetings from Holland,
> ...


Staraad, unfortunately I'm not so up to date with RC. that's the reason why, for example, I didn't consider Aster Eb 3/5, since the cab is quite smaller and I thought the room inside was really small. maybe after your post I can consider it...

by the way, does anyone know how the Accucraft Victory (0-6-0) works and did anyone fit the RC in it? I have found very little online, not even a picture from below to see the valve gear...


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

alberto77 said:


> ............. does anyone know how the Accucraft Victory (0-6-0) works and did anyone fit the RC in it? I have found very little online, not even a picture from below to see the valve gear...


Yes - they were available from the dealer with R/C. ........

https://www.track-shack.com/acatalog/Gauge-1-Special-Orders.html


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Alberto, we where running a Victory on Sunday , the valve gear is Accucrafts piston valve type , reversed by a central shuttle valve, the cab is small and full of stuff , we did not think r/c possible but it runs very nicely , steady speed and smooth..it is gas fired . 
Gordon.


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## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

Thanks a lot to both of you for the information!


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## Beusekomse Baan (Aug 31, 2021)

The BR78 is a strong performer on the track that can easily be improved.

The boiler is relatively small, and needs topping up with water frequently.
Adding water while in steam can be easily done with a "plant spray bottle". A ball valve is already mounted to the boiler. You just have to replace the brass cap on the right side of the cab with some tubing to connect to the bottle.

The alcohol sump is also small. 50 ml is gone in about 5 minutes.
Adding alcohol can ONLY be done safely when you close the tap before unscrewing the filler plug. Otherwise fuel will leak on the track, and will certainly ignite!

For those who can't/won't operate alcohol burners, several vendors in Europe provide conversions to a gas fired boiler. I'll keep burning alcohol in my BR78. 

Because the driving wheels are not sprung, the track needs to be pretty level. I've encountered several derailment of the leading and trailing bogies. This was due to too little downward pressure and the wheels hit the frame. Reducing the diameter of the wheels in the bogies by ~2.5 mm and mounting stiffer springs is the cure against this. Turning these wheels down in a lathe was much harder than anticipated. Aster made these wheels of very hard cast steel.

The BR78 does not drive to tight curves very well. The above adjustment and some additional tweaks are required to get it through LGB R3 curves. 

The ORIGINAL (Fulgurex) regulator/blower valve is a pain in the [email protected]#$! It is functional, but opens too far very quickly. You can hardly open it a little to run the engine a normal speed. The later USA-rerun is suposed to be fitted with 2 separate valves.

I'm currectly modifying my Fulgurex BR78 to the 2-valve setup, negotiating LGB R3 and will install RC-control. 
If possible I'll also mount a steam whistle.

If you are interested I'll post my actions.

Best regards, Rob


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Hello Rob,

The later version of the BR78 was not an USA version; it was commissioned in the beginning of the nineties by Roy Scott (who started the British supplier of gauge 1 track and more: Tenmille). For more information on ASTER you could have a look into my e-book on the subject: The Unauthorised History of ASTER – Many different model railways in all scales & gauges
Regards
Fred


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## Beusekomse Baan (Aug 31, 2021)

Thanks for the correction, Fred.


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## alberto77 (Aug 25, 2015)

Hello Rob,
thanks for your reply!
in the meanwhile I have bought an Aster 231A PLM, that has similar problem for the boiler, since it is a Smithie, although bigger. the previous owner took away the water tank in the tender and enlarged a bit the alchool tank, which I doubled afterwards. I provided RC for throttle, blower, valve gear and drain cocks, these ones i build myself. 
my only regret is that I don't have a track to run it on, except a short straight rail on my balcony...
let us updated with your upgrading!
regards
Alberto


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

Perhaps a bit obvious a tip, but fitting different couplings at the ends of a wagon, is a very simple way to use two different types of couplings. For screwcoupling hooks, there is an adapter to Märklin claw couplings. I only run the more modern rolling stock, that can be fitted with screw couplings though.

Though not French, the outline of Märklin old style compartment coaches, match French period passenger cars. Also, even though it's an express engine, it most likely ran goods freight trains as well. And quite short ones as well - like 6 wagons or so. I'm saying this based on German practices, but I don't think the French had "stricter" practices than the Germans!

A club member ran J&M French Wagon Lits coaches behind this locomotive. They are heavy though. Very large radius is adviceable. I also seem to remember they are not fitted with ball bearings.

On valve gears, my experience is that locomotives are almost exclusively run forwards. Very few do switching. So slip eccentric really isn't that bad, and hence is very common.


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Hi Rob, re your BR78 4-6-4 tank loco I have the French version and you may want to have a look at one of my previous posts where I put in water pumps and side tanks. I really need to also change the regulator as you are about to do, so have you done it yet?
Go to Modifications to an old Aster
Russell


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## Beusekomse Baan (Aug 31, 2021)

Some time ago I bought an Aster BR78/T18.
I think Aster has done a good job of "summarizing" this robust machine into a model. Of course you can see in the execution and the details that this model dates from 1978. This gives the locomotive just that little bit of extra charm for me.

In order to be able to operate the locomotive at all times, I have built in RC control. In the back of the cab, in front of the alcohol tank, I designed a construction for mounting two servos, the receiver, a battery and a switch. This part is printed on a 3D printer in PLA (Extrudr GreenTech).
This part has been shown to withstand temperature when the machine is fired up. Now the direction of travel and the controller can be controlled remotely.
Fortunately, the combined regulator/blower turns out to be perfectly controllable with a servo. The valve of the blower is opened so far that it already excellerates the fire at minimal boiler pressure. If the pressure rises you can adjust the blower by adjusting the position of the regulator.









Pal has already documented the improvements to his machine. I have gratefully made use of this information. (https://www.schienendampf.com/34487225nx30160/tuning-f35/br-78-umbau-auf-gas-t340.html)

I've noticed that the locomotive quickly derails if the track is not perfectly flat. I have found two causes for this that have been corrected.
1: With compressed in, or before a curve, the wheels hit the frame. This prevents the wheel sets from turning to the desired position. This is solved by turning down the wheels and flanges. Fortunately, the wheel tires are thick enough to reduce the diameter by about 2.5 mm.
2: The suspension travel is very short. The wheel sets can hardly move up and down. As a result, in the event of unevenness in the track, the driving wheels or wheel sets are lifted off the rails, resulting in derailment.
By turning the mounting brackets for the wheel sets in the frame upside down, and mounting longer springs, there is sufficient space for the suspension to even out humps and bumps.
Securing the pivoting side bolsters of the front and trailing wheel sets can also help to improve handling.

According to Aster, these machines can drive through curves with a minimum radius of 3 meters. LGB R5 rails and switches (radius 2.32 metres) appear to be negotiated well in practice.
Like Pal, my wish is to be able to ride through tighter curves. My aim is to run it at the "Stoom4Fun" modular layout in the Netherlands. The outside track is slightly wider than LGB R3 (AristoCraft rails with some/whatever imperial size).

I researched the minimum drivable curve for this machine. This confirms the LGB R5 minimum radius for an unmodified engine.









When driving through tighter curves the oil-container limits the lateral movement of the leading wheelset. If the current container (20mm diameter) is replaced by one less than 12mm diameter it could be possible to drive through R3.









At the rear of the machine, the trailing wheel set will eventually run into the alcohol-sump.









Pal has eliminated the alcohol sump by fitting his machine with a gas-fired boiler......

If I want to keep the original alcohol-fired boiler, I'll have to re-design, build and fit a new suitable alcohol sump and oil container.
It is already clearly visible that parts of the leading wheel set will collide with the cylinder blocks at curve radius LGB R3. (amongst others, the braking system)
It is also questionable whether the front and rear drive wheels have enough lateral movement space to drive through R3. If at all possible, it is likely that the connecting rods are pressed tightly into the bearings, causing additional friction and wear.

So I will certainly not spend any energy on this. It is DEFINITELY not worth it.
I'll have to accept a minimum radius of approx. 230 cm.... or sell this machine.....

Best regards from the Netherlands,

Rob


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Thanks for posting your findings Rob it should assist those with sharp curves looking at this model. I like the servo control of the combined regulator/blower but unfortunately I have already taken up space in the cab of my 232TC and that regulator is so sensitive I think I will have to make it a separate control not combined like the later Aster design.
Russell


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