# NT, but looking for advice from wiring experts, internet wiring



## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

This is a long shot, but maybe someone on this forum might know an answer to our problem.

Our place in Colorado is two separated buildings. What we call the "main cabin" and the "garage". The upper portion of the garage has a bedroom and TV room. In the main cabin we have satellite internet. 


Unfortunately when the garage was built we did not include a Cat5 wire from the main cabin to the garage so the garage could have a hard wired internet connection. What does connect between the two is the house electrical, a satellite coax cable, and a phone line. All are in use. But there is also an unused low voltage type wire (two insulated wires) that I believe was installed for an intercom or possibly an alarm system. Whatever it was for, it is unused. And is fully accessible in both structures.


Is there a way to get an internet feed to travel along the unused two wires? 


I'm no wiring expert, but I don't think there is a way without more wires (min of 4).

But I thought, hey there are some electrical experts on this forum that might have a solution. 


Note, wireless will not work do to the distance between the structures, the thick metal roofs, and the thick logs (these are log cabins structures with full logs). Also digging to add a new wire is impossible, well not exactly impossible but the logs make it impossible to add the wiring inside the upstairs of the garage.


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## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Yes you are right, 4 wires are the minimum, but I would not recommend anything less than Cat5 twisted pair. 

Have you looked into Powerline network equipment? This involves sending the signal down electrical wires using plug-in adaptors 

Alec


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

I've wondered about Powerline. I also pondered if I could hook one of those powerline adapters into the two wires we have. I'm betting it has to go through an actual electrical outlet.

I'll look more into the Powerline system though, as both buildings are connected electrically. I'll just have to map out the different zones and such to be sure where the actual connections are. 



Having an internet connection in the upper part of the garage is not really all that big a priority since there is a connection in the "main cabin". However when we have guests over they typically stay in the upper garage rooms. And they often ask if there is an internet connection.



Below is a photo I found on my computer that shows both structures. Main cabin to the right and the garage to the left. Those are wild turkeys roaming around.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

A ethernet power line adapter is what you need. It's a pair of boxes that plug into power outlets at each end into which you plug a CAT5e cable from the router into one...and the computer in the garage into the other. They're good for 200M BPS. You'll also need two Cat5e ethernet jumper cables if you don't have them.

They'll work just fine in your application as long as there is a direct power cable from the house to the garage with no transformer in it...which would be extremely unusual. These things can't transmit through a transformer. Amazon sells them as do many other folks. 

They work by modulating a signal onto the 60 Hz power...and decoding it at the other end. They work in both directions. You can even plug a wireless repeater into it and go wireless in the garage. 


Here's a link Ethernet power line adapter


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

If you have another moden you can use the two wire, if not than you will need 4 wires. 
You could also and may already have a router than you could have a line from it to the 
garage, you would probably have to have one made to go the distante though. 

Ken owner of K&K the road to nowhere


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Matt:


If the unused low voltage type wire (two insulated wires) is in its own conduit then, assuming that it is of a large enough diameter, could you not just pull the cat 5 through that conduit replacing the existing wires?


Mark


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By **** Habilis on 10 Feb 2012 02:18 PM 


Matt:


If the unused low voltage type wire (two insulated wires) is in its own conduit then, assuming that it is of a large enough diameter, could you not just pull the cat 5 through that conduit replacing the existing wires?


Mark 


Unfortunately no. The two wires are in the same tube conduit that everything else goes in. This conduit goes under the houses (starts in the crawl space of the main cabin) and is pretty packed. It has the electrical main, the satellite wire, the phone wire, and then the unused two wire. To feed a Cat5 through this conduit is one thing, but then to feed it to the upstairs location would be one trick. 


Not easy when wiring a log cabin. Planning ahead is key. So we planned for the satellite, but never thought about internet. Once built you're pretty much stuck with what is in the walls.

Thanks for all the tips thus far. 


I'll look into the internet via power lines a bit more. I just hope that the way the wiring is hooked up between the two houses this set up would work. There might be a separate power supply that comes straight from our electrical box that goes to the garage.


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Matt:

Too bad. As far as I know, sharing low voltage, communications and line voltage in the same conduit is not legal in sunny California. 


Good luck, 

Mark


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark,

It might be two conduits. One solely for the electrical wires and another for the rest. I'd have to check. Just going off my memory. I'm now in my normal residence of southern California. So I likely won't be able to get out there until the summer.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

A ethernet power line adapter is what you need. It's a pair of boxes that plug into power outlets at each end into which you plug a CAT5e cable from the router into one...and the computer in the garage into the other 
Incidentally, I was surprised when my power line ethernet started to have problems. Turns out the compact flourescent bulbs produce enough noise to make them unusable. 

might be a separate power supply that comes straight from our electrical box that goes to the garage 
As long as they are both on the same main supply, it will work. If they both have their own distribution/breaker panels, then the powerline adaptors may not work. 

Incidentally, I have a pair of Powerline Adaptors that are useless now that I have energy-efficient flourescents! [I switched my PC to WiFI.] Would you like to borrow them to try it? 

so the garage could have a hard wired internet 
Why does it have to be wired? Won't a WiFi signal reach that far?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

How Far apart are the buildings?

What about a WI FI transmitter and receiver?

Place them on the walls closest to the house/ garage. 


JJ


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Tried WiFi. It failed. Very intermittent signal. Never strong enough or reliable enough to be a viable option. 


The thick metal roofs wreck havoc with anything wireless. Also the thick logs are good at keeping wireless signals out.


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Matt, 
Much like remote control radio frequencies, different WiFi protocols work better than others. Same with the hardware. 
There is now 802.11a/b/g/n. Years ago I had problems with 802.11a & 802.11b. 
Now with 802.11n my signal travels for a couple hundred feet through as many as 6 walls. 
Looking at the distance you have, I don't think you should have any problems with a quality 802.11n system. 

WiFi in motels has improved greatly in the last couple of years due to the new technology.WiFi now travels hundreds of feet through dozens of walls, even concrete ones. 
Metal roof and thick walls should not be a problem with the right equipment. 
Ralph


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I stayed in a Comfort Inn in Tucson. Wi Fi sucked big time. I got on the Motel 8 Wi Fi next door. It worked great 

JJ


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Matt,

Lots of good ideas suggested thus far. There are many alternatives methods of providing an internet feed to your garage. You suggested wireless didn’t work, as Ralph mentioned the “newer” protocols would be worth considering I’ve had good luck with them too… 

I have a similar dilemma between my garage and cable modem with wireless router. I have a couple of computers I use in my garage workshop and often work on computers for others. This lead to the need for multiple simultaneous internet connection feeds. Since I’m not hardwired for an Ethernet system I decided a wireless infrastructure would have to do, to that end I purchased two wireless routers one is used in the house in the conventional wired/wireless access point mode and the second is used as wired/wireless access point for the garage. In other words the garage wireless AP (AP=access point) is configured via software to act as a wireless bridge and or wireless client, in this mode the GAP (garage access point) communicates wirelessly with the primary AP in the house, similar to a repeater. In the garage I have wireless access and multiple wired CAT-5/RJ45 access provided by the GAP. So it matters not if the computers I’m playing with are wireless capable or not as plug and play works too…

FWIW: If you find yourself figuring out a method to pull hardwire to the garage use at least Cat-5e UTP cable or better yet look at CAT-6 UTP. These cables are superior to CAT-5 and will accommodate new technology in the future; at this time CAT-5e and better supports high speed Gigabit Ethernet seamlessly. As mentioned by others these cables and the like should be in a separate conduit from line voltage cables and at least 12” from same. 

It’s not impossible to pull out the unused 2 wire cable and pull in a new CAT-5 or 6 cable, I do this semi regularly by attaching the new cable to the old and then pulling the old out while introducing the new cable simultaneously…

If for some reason you find you’re experiencing some wireless signal throughput anomalies, consider purchasing range extending antennas; these antennas are readily available and can be mounted near a window or better yet outside and they work too!

Michael Glavin


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## DougArcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Would it be possible to place a splitter downline from the provider, (Satellite Cable) just before whatever your current cat5 cable clicks into (Modem, Hub, Black box, etc.) and send it through the coax to the garage to another Modem, Hub, Black box?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By San Juan on 10 Feb 2012 05:46 PM 
Tried WiFi. It failed. Very intermittent signal. Never strong enough or reliable enough to be a viable option. 


The thick metal roofs wreck havoc with anything wireless. Also the thick logs are good at keeping wireless signals out.



You need an external WiFi antenna, like the ones Ruckus sells. (http://www.ruckuswireless.com/). My pal in Sanibel uses them for his condo complex, and 4 antennas cover the whole complex.

If you put the WiFi antenna on an outsside wall, everyone within 1/2 mile will be able to connect!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, 2 directional wifi antennas will do it. point at each other. 

Another idea, can probably find a way to add the signal over the coax, i.e. share, but those gadgets are expensive. 

But I have a question... you have 110v in the same conduit as low voltage stuff? Very bad and dangerous... be careful! 

Illegal down here. 

Greg


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11 Feb 2012 04:18 PM 

But I have a question... you have 110v in the same conduit as low voltage stuff? Very bad and dangerous... be careful! 

Illegal down here. 

Greg 

Like I mentioned above, I can't be sure. It probably isn't. It's likely two conduit tubes underground. Might even be more.


I'm just going by memory. And it's been a while since I've been down in the crawl space. I live in Southern California (Anaheim) and when I get time off work I get out to our place in Colorado. So I can't check until I get back out there. But it is more than likely in different tubes if that is what the Colorado codes are. 


Now that I think of it it, there must be separate tubes. Otherwise our satellite TV signal would have interference if it was right next to 110v wires.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not necessarily... your satellite feed is at way higher freq than 60 hz ac. 

Anyway, I would try a hardline first, if not, could you put antennas in windows or behind some wood so they were not in the weather. You should be able to find flat panel directional antennas for about $40-60 each. 

Greg


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Wife and I plan to build one more house someday. It will have 60 miles of 3/4" conduit. Something to every wall in every room running back to a central closet. All over the yard too. Put in whatever is the latest and change out as technology gets better. I am so tired of knobdicking in the attic and digging trenches.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

you did not mention the distance. (or i overread it) 

i had the same problem. distance about 65 foot. i simply bought some plastictube (pvc) and ordinary LAN cable. buried it and sealed the open ends with silicon. one end of the cable in the router(which connected to the receiver of the antenna), the other into a cheap hub, from where the additional computers were connected. 
works just fine.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't know the actual distance. A guess would be around 80 feet?


While I can put tubes and such in the ground, the problem is I can never get them inside the building. Log cabin construction. I cannot get into the walls. If this was a normal structure with dry wall or even wood siding it would be no problem. But thick logs once in place cannot be rewired without doing some major damage.


I wish I had some input during construction as I would have mentioned installing an open conduit so we could wire for the future (just like Bob did).


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dumb question... you cannot drill through a wood log? 

Greg


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Feb 2012 09:50 PM 
Dumb question... you cannot drill through a wood log? 

Greg 
Vertically no. Got to fish the wire to the second story and that is lot of logs to drill through. That drill bit would need to be one heck of a long one


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They make them 3 foot and 4 foot long for this precise purpose, you can even buy them in home depot, only the end 6 inches or so are "drill" and there is a hole in the tip to fish a line back. 

But, as I said, I would go wireless with directional antennas. 

Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 22 Feb 2012 10:32 AM 
They make them 3 foot and 4 foot long for this precise purpose, you can even buy them in home depot, only the end 6 inches or so are "drill" and there is a hole in the tip to fish a line back. 

But, as I said, I would go wireless with directional antennas. 

Greg 
The major problem I have had with these drills and their extensions is "wandering". I wouldn't have a problem with four or five feet, but eight to ten feet to or from a second story, not good.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Uhh... don't think any of the logs in a log cabin are 8 to 10 feet thick... probably not over 1 foot... I hope no one was thinking of drilling a log lengthwise 8 to 10 feet? 

Drill though outer "wall", one log thick, then bring upstairs, cannot be more than another log thick.


Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Sounds like Matt wants to essentially run the cabling inside the wall to the second story. 
Since walls are solid logs that would mean drilling through all the solid logs from the second story to where the cabling comes in at ground level. 

What about underground cabling to the garage and then WiFi in the garage with an Airport module or similar. 
Guests who come to visit and stay in the second story accommodations there will most likely have a laptop with WiFi capability. 
Probably the cheapest and most reiable option if one can run another cable underground. 

Otherwise wireless from the main building as has already been suggested. 

Knut


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 22 Feb 2012 01:57 PM 
Uhh... don't think any of the logs in a log cabin are 8 to 10 feet thick... probably not over 1 foot... I hope no one was thinking of drilling a log lengthwise 8 to 10 feet? 

Drill though outer "wall", one log thick, then bring upstairs, cannot be more than another log thick.


Greg I AM really surprised at THAT answer! You really are full of "it"! I have a log cabin behind my cabin in Wrightwood. They are built just like a Lincoln log house. Now maybe I'm missing something here or you're smoking something other than cigar!







PLEASE explain to me how you remove logs SEPARATELY from a log cabin, drill a log and then put back in place? I'm ready.









To drill a hole down a log cabin wall and the cabin is two-story, you would be looking at maybe 9 to 10 feet tall of STACKED logs-maybe each log 10-12 inches in diameter. Who is talking about an outer wall? I never truly thought you were argumentative until I got this answer. Seriously!!!??????









I think I'll go outside now and do something really important, like take the traxh barrels out to the street!!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 22 Feb 2012 02:11 PM 
Sounds like Matt wants to essentially run the cabling inside the wall to the second story. 
Since walls are solid logs that would mean drilling through all the solid logs from the second story to where the cabling comes in at ground level. 

What about underground cabling to the garage and then WiFi in the garage with an Airport module or similar. 
Guests who come to visit and stay in the second story accommodations there will most likely have a laptop with WiFi capability. 
Probably the cheapest and most reiable option if one can run another cable underground. 

Otherwise wireless from the main building as has already been suggested. 

Knut 
BINGO!!!!


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

With the distances mention in this thread - about 80 ft, an Airport Express may just work configured as a range extender of the WiFi network in the main house. 
The range without obstructions is about 150 ft. 
here is a bit of info on that option, the main wireless device must support WDS: 
http://store.apple.com/us/question/answers/product/MB321LL/A?pqid=QY4CAJJC7KFTTDKYH72DKPXF4CAUA9D4J 

Knut 

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

huh?

Calm down!!!


Of course it would be insanity to try to drill vertically through a stack of logs... I think it's you smoking something.

I said" Drill though outer "wall", one log thick, then bring upstairs, cannot be more than another log thick."

Upstairs going through the "ceiling" not vertically through a wall of huge timbers. That would be nuts to even consider.

Once you have penetrated the outer wall, you have to go through the ceiling of the first floor, otherwise known as the floor of the second floor.

Like I said, even if the second floor "floor" was made of logs, still only one log thick... 

I would assume that the second floor is made of more normal-sized timbers.

Be careful with the trash barrels, if you got confused on my post, you could get hurt outside!

Greg


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Do you have wireless in the house? How is the reception in or near the garage? I use a wireless bridge connected to a router for my theater setup as it needed 4 cat5 connections and I had only wireless available there. 

Its a Linksys Dual-Band Wireless-N Gaming Adapter WGA600N 

Your other option is also a actual bridge setup from Linksys/Cisco. Ive tried the power adapters and always had issues.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 22 Feb 2012 10:32 AM 
They make them 3 foot and 4 foot long for this precise purpose, you can even buy them in home depot, only the end 6 inches or so are "drill" and there is a hole in the tip to fish a line back. 

But, as I said, I would go wireless with directional antennas. 

Greg 
Greg,

Please read again what YOU said about extensions. Now, please explain in very simple terms (because I am a very simple man), why I would need a 3 or 4foot extension to drill through a single log, 8-12 inches in diameter? You really need to re-read that post again please.

You also tell me it would be insanity to drill through a vertical wall of logs. REALLY????? When I had my security system installed in my home many years ago, they drilled down my interior and exterior walls (NOT logs of course, so you won't come back at me for not being precise) precisely in the center of the wall thickness, to pull conduit and wiring It's done all the time in construction.

As I have said before, sometimes your arrogance is in great conflict with your superb intellect and I sincerely appreciate your intellect. This is not sarcasm. Sometimes it is really hard to figure where you are coming from







and makes it less and less appealing for some of us to even respond. I'm NOT the only one on here who feels this way. Many of these threads seem to end in flame wars more and more.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

I should clarify a bit.


Horizontal drilling through one log is easy. Well relatively easy. Avoiding existing wiring is always an issue. 


But we could easily run the wiring on the outside of the cabin "garage" and drill through one log to get the wiring inside. But we've tried very hard to hide any wiring, both indoors and out. Then there is always the issue of wildlife chewing on exposed wiring. So we could run this wire through a conduit on the outside of the building to protect it better. But hiding the wiring becomes even more difficult.


I think we'll try out the internet via the power lines and see what happens. If it works as advertised, this might make internet access available out at the layout too since we put in an underground power line to it. Then the possibility of streaming video of the layout becomes an option as well.


Wireless just didn't work that well when we tested it. However we tried it out about three years ago. But I agree there have been major improvements made in wireless. So this is another option we could try again. 


The wireless system I installed at our California home works great by the way. Although the roof here is tile shingles on a wood substrate not metal, and the walls are wood framed not solid logs. It also is not very well insulated, well nothing like the log cabin










I do appreciate the discussion and multiple ways of how to go about this. Keeps me thinking.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

have you got a working phone extension in your garage? 

if yes, there should be a non invasive way. 
buy two routers, two "splitters" the same stuff you would need, if you were receiving internet through the phoneline, only twice. 
connect that stuff in the house and in the garage to the extension phone line. 
connect the router in the house to your LAN. 
then use the microsoft program for a remote net.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

We have a two line phone wire in the garage (both upstairs and downstairs). 

However we use the AT&T 4 line 954 in the garage, both upstairs and downstairs. These are used as a two line phone as well as intercoms. There are another two AT&T 954s in the main cabin both upstairs and downstairs. Again used for two line phones as well as intercoms.


So I'm not sure what these phones need as far as phone jack hook up. Putting internet on the phone line might screw up the phones.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 22 Feb 2012 06:08 PM 
have you got a working phone extension in your garage? 

if yes, there should be a non invasive way. 
buy two routers, two "splitters" the same stuff you would need, if you were receiving internet through the phoneline, only twice. 
connect that stuff in the house and in the garage to the extension phone line. 
connect the router in the house to your LAN. 
then use the microsoft program for a remote net. 
Can you explain that in a bit more detail?
The two basic ways to connect to the internet via phone lines is either with a 56k analog modem or some sort of DSL.

DSL requires the use of filters which I assume you mean by "splitters". But neither of these technologies will work back-to-back as I think you are suggesting.

Knut


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't really understand the technology or know what to buy to do this, but my internet DSL is via telephone and it all runs on the old standard telephone lines running around my house to various jacks that have been installed by various residents over the years.

As I understand it, the telephone voice signal (for dialing and people talking) is using the lower 4KHz of the telephone system bandwidth and the upper portion (what ever is above the 4KHz) is where the digital data signal resides. Each telephone jack where a voice line (i.e.: a "telephone") is attached has a Low Pass filter in it that lets only the low frequencies through to the handset and at only one place I have no filter and that is where the Modem is on the line so it can detect the upper frequencies (I suppose it has a high pass filter in it to remove the voice signals when I am flapping my lips using the telephone). If I attach a telephone to a jack without the filter and I lift the receiver I can hear all kinds of buzzing and beeping of the digital signal, and any noise on my part into the telephone screws up the digital signal to the point where my PC cannot communicate on the internet.

The MODEM in the home is designated as the "Answer" modem and the phone company has what is designated as the "Originate" modem. They may be the exact same device or different, and if different it may be the Originate modem is more expensive or more difficult to obtain. I am sure there has to be one designated as the ORIGINATE modem and the other is the RECEIVE modem because they have to cooperate on which frequencies they send data on and which they receive data on. I remember this from the days of using he old Hayes 1200 and Hayes 2400 modems... the one doing the dialing to call the other sends on one set of frequencies (or one band) and the modem that answers the phone always listens on that band and sends on another band that the Originate modem is listening to. Of course, back then we were really something when we could send data at 240 characters per second, which today is called "dial-up" and is agonizingly ssssllllloooooooowwwwww..... I don't know what technology advance allows the same wires that could barely accept 2400 Baud to now pass multi-megabytes of data but I know they are the exact same wires in my house, and should be the same wires that you are using to get telephone and intercom signals from the house to the out-buildings.


I am sure there is some way to attach two of these modems, one in the house to MOdulate your LAN signals onto the telephone line to the out-buildings, and a second one in an out-building to DEModulate the signal back to the LAN type info for distribution there.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually each unit is a modem, since both modulate (to send) and demodulate (to receive) because this is a bidirectional interface. 

There's all kinds of gadgets to extend stuff on twisted pair, not to mention DSL which is optimized for much longer distances... 

But the requirements are slowly being revealed, like no drilling holes. Maybe too much money for the units to move data over the wires... 

Again, get the wireless with the directional antennas... wood does not attenuate rf like metal does... 

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

SV - 

You are mixing up the two technologies. 
The "dial-up" modem is a true modem using in-band frequencies in the voice band so it will work anywhere a telephone line exists. 
It doesn't depend on any specific equipment at the Central Office, the Telephone company's switching equipment. 
All the Telco does is provide a voice grade connection to the other end where a similar modem will connect and communicate. 

But DSL doesn't work that way. 
The term DSL modem is a bit of a misnomer but is generally used to make DSL a bit easier to understand. 
With DSL, you have a special subscriber line circuit at the Central Office (CO) or a DSLAM, a Digital SubscriberLine Access Multiplexer at the CO - not something one can buy one circuit of, they are 8 or 16 ports per unit, require supporting equipment and are pretty expensive. 

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Maybe this will help - you cannot connect ADSL back-to-back 
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r24644257-back-to-back-modem-configuration


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Back on page 1, post 15 I described how you could use pretty much any existing wireless access point and or wireless router together with a plain old wireless router located in the garage configured as a wireless bridge or wireless client. You don’t need anything exotic or expensive a simple inexpensive Linksys WRT54G router will suffice and it will provide WiFi as well as four CAT 5 wired connections in the garage.

You can purchase a Linksys WRT54G from online vendors for about $50.00 that has been flashed with TOMATO software or other similar offerings; this would allow you to specifically turn up the power output! There are many other user definable parameters which are all accessed via the routers web interface and all are again user friendly for tweaking the unit to your own needs.

A range extending antenna would likely be an excellent accessory located near a window connected to the wireless access point in the cabin. In my experience this worked very well at my former home, I had an excellent signal over the properties entire acre or better.

Michael


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Knut, 
as i don't have two ADSL receivers at the moment, i can't test. (but i doubt, that you are right. if adsl were so complicated and expensive, we would not have it here in the backwoods of a poor banana republic.) 
with splitter i mean the grey box (marked "B"). 
it takes in a phonejack from the incoming line (the "A"box, where the streetcables are screwed to a phone jack) and gives out one telephone and one "computer"line. (both with telephone jacks) as it is glued shut, i ignore, if there is any electronics inside. 
(ignore "D". that just ables paralell connected phones) but beside "D" you see a simple grey telephone cable. that goes into the router ("C").


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Kormsen -

The box "B" is simply a dual jack
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plus a filter
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in a larger box.

Or you can get the dual jack and filter already packaged like this which electrically is identical to your box "B"











Two ADSL modems will just not work back-to-back, they were never designed to do that.
This is obvious from the system diagram:









and also from this discussion where someone asked exactly that question.

http://tcpmag.com/qanda/article.asp?EditorialsID=417

Maybe I should mention that I spent part of my life as a design manager in the Tele- and Data-Communications field but if you don't believe me, do a bit of googling about ASDL.

Knut


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