# begginers sound system install,compatability,and operation



## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi if any of you have read my previous posts? i am beginning my venture into large scale trains, so far i have picked my locomotive and was shown a good power supply,but now have to decide my sound system,i have found something that i think will work but want to share it with all the pros here for further facts.

I have found G scale and 2 rail o scale large diesel sound decoder, model MRC0001817 for $69.99 and looks to include the speaker and i was shown the option to control it with a MRC black box sound activator MRC 0001050,it is said to be a simple 4 wire hook up, with two wires to my dc power packs variable power hook up, and two wires to the track,and if you use non decoder equipped locos, the black box must be removed from the powerpack to run them.


I wanted to know if this set up would work with the loco im buying its an Usa trains sd70mac?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Although Greg said post it here - I would comment that the people with the answers are reading the "Sound" forum. Try posting the question there.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Actually, I think, Greg advised moving your questions to the appropriate forums. 
In the beginners Forums you'll get a more generic answer, while the various forums have people tuned in to answer specific questions...in detail. 

Quick answer; yes it should work... but I took several weeks before I decided on a solution. 

In the sound forum I found out about Small Scale Railways and their sound card (under $100). It doesn't require any black box, but one can't blow the whistle... on command. 
I run steamers and use R/C control, simplified for my great nephews (3 - 6 yrs old). 
I call it 'canned sound' as it uses an optical sensor to match the chugs and speed. It can also be triggered with magnets in the track, Torby has done that. 
It is funny when the whistle blows in the tunnel...I 'see' all kinds of soot being blown over the train! 
It uses real loco sound recordings and you can pick the recoding you want online. Some sounds depend on speed and direction, bells and whistles sound on start up and then become more random. It is monaural -one sound at a time, but not noticable unless listening for it... Similar to definition in headphones vs. open room listening, plus actual train sounds; like the clickety clack over jointed rail and the calming sound of wheels rolling along.... all makes for seamless sound. I needed a speaker in one loco and got one for $5.00 with the card. Turned out to be too big, so I salvaged old computer speakers and got excellent advice on installing them (2 - 4ohm in series = 1 - 8 ohm). See; 'Speakers ... in General' in the Sound Forum. 

One final word, most here are just like you, this is a hobby, not a business. Don't get impatient if you don't get your answers right away in the general forum. Try using the best forum for answers. 
Which power pack, is basic, knowledge about a specific sound system isn't. If you move your cursor over 'Community' in the headers of the Home Page, you'll see Active Topics, open it and you can see how many people have looked and how many have replied. Thousands look (in general) but few answer.... Also many of the most knowledgable here are tired of repeating everything when they know it's all already here. I ain't the brightest bulb in the string, but by reading various threads and asking for definitions I learned a lot and made decisions based on my wants and needs. 

Stay between the rails! 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This is the beginners forum and I really think this is the right place, hopefully this thread will help other beginners in the future. 

It's one **** of a topic, and there will most likely be many "polarized" responses!!! 

So, first a question: "matrixman" please at least give us your first name... we do all pretty much deal personally here, and it's just weird to call you "matrixman" (and it's a pain in the a** to type!!) 

My personal opinion is it would be better for you to get some of the fundamental options under your belt rather than just trying to find one solution. 

There are MANY solutions out there, but the thing I would like to help facilitate is to make the RIGHT decision for the future, rather than buying something, and then the next month you realize it's on a different path than where you really want to go. 

Many DCC decoders can also respond to some type of signal on "plain old DC", but it's sort of a crutch, and if you are ever going to run more than one loco at a time, it's usually not the best "basis" for your layout. 

What is really going to drive your sound questions is are you going to stay with track power or go battery. 

The reason for that statement is that the R/C systems out there MOSTLY (but not exclusively) use basically a different interface to a sound unit than the track power systems do. 

Now, there are tons of exceptions, but you really should think about this "track" vs. "battery" power thing now, because it's the COST PER LOCOMOTIVE that will probably drive your decision. 

If you only will EVER have 1-3 locos, the decision is easy, because there's not much difference in cost either way. 

Go over that amount, and especially with sound, there become real economic differences. 

Also, there's more variables about sounds, how to control, how many you can control, etc., but trust me, it will come back to the cost per loco thing. 

I know you want to try it out right away, so I will answer your question with my opinion. MRC decoders are junk comparatively, poor reliability, and I would not start out with them. 

If you absolutely could not wait, get the QSI, 10 minute install after you open the cover, and you get bell and whistle control with just the direction switch on your "power pack" 

You can get the QSI "Quantum Engineer" for $45 that will let you control 30 sounds... it does have a max current limitation of about 3.5 amps... 

But, I still recommend you wait a bit and learn more. 

Regards, Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

I also like the QSI. If your going to use the Quantum Cab, you should get the booster box as well. It's made for the Quantum Cab, and will handel up to 30 amps. Other than the decoders that came in my LGB's, QSI, and G-Wire is all I use. You can use the QSI on DC, DCC, Wireless, and with battery power. It's the only decoder that I know of that will work as a motor driver, sound card, and works with almost anything esle. 

OK that's my 2 cents worth, 
I leave the soap box to the next in line 

Loco Lee


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Hear Hear Loco Lee I most emphatically agree cost of operation, simplicity, versatility, and ease of installation QSI/G-wire all the way will work for track power or battery either one!! Regal


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just not to confuse a newcomer, it is called the "Quantum Engineer", not the Quantum Cab.... it's also sold by Atlas, but the same box. 

The "booster" is $200, so I did not recommend it because, the Quantum Engineer will handle one loco in G scale, and $200 is a costly add on for someone looking to start out. (I have one and paid $200 so I know!) 

Regards, Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Sorry about that Greg. See what I get for trying to email while half asleep on the couch. Yes the Engineer. Also the booster boxes are $155 from Tony's. The two PA's that we talked about yesterday are being controled that way. I'm suprised at how well it works. I'll go back to sleep now. 

Loco Lee


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I paid $200 for my booster from Tony recently, and have the receipt to prove it. 

Hmm... guess it proves I have absolutely no "vested interests"... 

Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Greg, 

Full list price is only 189.95, and he sells them for 155.95. If you don't beleave me, you can see for yourself. 

http://qsisolutions.com/products/q-engineer-booster.html 

Loco Lee


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I can't speak to the MRC unit as a sound card, but I assume it would work. You could also look at Dallee sound. 

I was a TOTAL beginner 3-4 years ago. Started out on DC. I tried several different approaches to sound and control and ended up with QSI/DCC, which I'm very happy with. I think it's a better option than the MRC long term, because as mentioned, you can run it on conventional DC, on wireless constant DC track power, wirelessly via batteries, or via DCC. 

Also in my experience the way QSI sound works in actual operation is much better. With most sound card, you set the throttle to whatever speed, and the sound stays the same: the engine sound never varies until you hit the throttle again. Those kind of soundcards can get very monotonous and irritating. With QSI, the sound varies under load, so if the engine hits a up grade, it gets louder and "throatier," and on downgrades gets nearly silent. 

The USAT SD-70 is a great loco, but you might also consider the Aristocraft Dash-9 or the SD-45, just because the plug-in socket in Aristo locos makes installation of sound or motor decoders very easy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

When I bought mine there were none made Lee, and apparently we had to pay top dollar to get them (another friend bought one at the same time). 

I believe they are not in stock, even though listed on the site. There was apparently only one run made, and none since, probably due to the price. Call Tony if you don't believe ME. 

Anyway, back to the "generic" questions about sound, Matrixman (getting tired of typing that)... you have stated track power. 

Now you can get sound systems that react to DC voltage on the rail (most already do), so your choices are around what kind of control system: 

Straight DC: 
voltage reversing and black boxes to do lots of sounds (QSI) 
DC sensing and magnets in the track to trigger sounds (Phoenix with reed switches) 

R/C and track power 
Airwire style... you can use the Airwire receiver and virtually any sound only DCC board, like a Digitrax Sound Bug, or many options. 
Airwire style... use the QSI plus the QSI Gwire receiver... again 30 sounds remotely controllable 

DCC and track power 
even more options, many sound boards are dcc, plus motor and sound decoders combined. 
QSI, Zimo, ESU, Digitrax, etc. etc... the most options, but more system initial cost 

There's sort of my take on your "categories" 

Notice that some of the hardware works in "analog" DC on the track, and with Airwire and with DCC on the rails. 

This comes right back to my statement you need to consider how you will eventually control your trains, although there are some "growth paths" where the same hardware will work on DC, and later if you "graduate" to a more sophisticated control system, the same hardware will also give you lots of options. 

Regards, Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Now Greg, 

You should know by now that I beleave every word you say. I called Tony to see if there was a way that I could get the price down, not that I doubted what you had said. 

Anyway, back to the subject at hand. I use a 10 AMP Radio Shack Power Supply that I turned up to about 15 VDC, and that's what I use to run my trains. No fancy transformer, or anything. Some people think I'm Loco for doing it that way, but I've been doing it for years, and have had no problems at all. K.I.S.S. is the answer. 

Loco Lee


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