# News on Accucraft EBT #12 and Hoppers



## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

I went to the Midwest Large scale train show to talk to the Accucraft rep and push for production of the Live Steam 2-8-2 #12.








I was able to talk to Fred and Charles. They said that preorders were still below what they need to begin production







. Both indicated that they would like to proceed. * If you want to see this loco produced time to steep up to the counter and place your order. *









One thing that is not in the specs. on the Accucraft web site, but is in the catalog, is they are planning on making the #12 with piton valve and simulated Sevenson valve gear.







I think an email campaign to Accucraft to have the loco changed to Slide Valves and to update the web site with more information on this locomotive is in order.







See Kevin's post below about this information being wrong in the printed catalog. 








On a positive note Charles said that the tooling for the 3 bay hoppers is in progress. We should see a pilot model early in 2009. And production in mid 2009.









I think that once we have proper hopper cars for the EBT that might create more demand for a proper EBT steamer.


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## leftyfretguy (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the update. I was just thinking that we have not heard anything about them in a while, I guess this explains why. Hopefully they can get enough orders to start soon. 
Maybe when we finally get our locomotives, we can all get together for a steam up in Orbisonia during one of their fall events/spectaculars! 
Matt


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

They said that preorders were still below what they need to begin production 


Which confirms my suspicions - why put a date on the item if you only plan to produce it when you have enough orders? Wouldn't "Available when pre-orders reach 100 units" be more honest? 

It has always been clear that they only start when there are enough orders, but how are we supposed to know how long we'll have to wait?? Yes, that's frustration you note in my words...

It also begs the question of whether they will ever do #14 and #15.

I won't mention that the wife has threatened to withdraw her birthday present funds of it doesn't turn up soon..


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I e-mailed Cliff about this. His response: 

_Kevin __
__
__First, let me confirm that EBT #12 live steam will be with D-valve and Walschearts valve gear (website will have this corrected, and it appeared wrong as a misprint in the catalog thank you for the reminder!). I have been told that the engine will be produced in the later half of 2009. I will hopefully have a prototype by next Summer for the steam up in Sacramento. Accucraft has always produced everything we've announced. The amount of effort put into each project is enormous, and that may cause delays, but we do get the products out in the end.__
__
__Best regards __
__Cliff - tech. __
__Accucraft Company_ 



Later,


K


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin that is great news.

Here is a link to the official East Broad Top web site. http://www.ebtrr.com 

And Spikesys unofficial web site. http://www.spikesys.com/EBT/ 

The East Broad Top is one amazing RR. Most of it is still intact almost 50 years after the RR stopped hauling coal. And steam still runs on a portion of the line on the weekends during the summer. 

The Spikesys site has the location of most of the cars still sitting where they were when the RR shut down.


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

One more important link for East Broad Top fans. 

Friends of the East Broad Top


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Robb, 
I didn't realize you were such an EBT fan. My #12 has been on order since they were first announced. Recently while communicating with Accucraft about a loco I'm reviewing for Steam In The Garden, Ada concurred that the EBT #12 could be available in the second half of 2009. Last January at Diamondhead I lunched with Cliff who said we'd see the hoppers before the loco. 
My personal interest is in the early EBT so I, like Pete, have a C-16 converted to #7 despite being 10-15% too small. Rainey & Kyper show that #12 was built in December 1911 and #7 was sold in October 1913 so that overlapping time is my modeling period. I've been building a string of wood hoppers since the first steel three bays weren't constructed until 1915, citing R&K. 
Viva EBT!! 
Tom


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

The thing about the preorders is that not everyone wants to preorder an engine and wait for 3 years for it to show up..I ordered the 191 I dont even know how long ago. I get fed up with the delays over and over, if you know that its impossible to meet a deadline dont post a price or date. That seems to be the issue with the Masonbogie now, a price was posted but now some shortcuts are coming up as they said well that costs more and we posted a price but without even having a prototype I think it puts them in a difficult position. 

I think in the future if they took a placeholder not an order that when the engine arrives you have the option to buy or not, With the deposit you loose it if you cant or dont want to buy it when it comes out.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I pretty much agree with Jay. After the way Accucraft treated those of us who put down $500 to get the 4-4-0 project under way, I will never preorder, or whatever, from them again. I have an interest in the EBT mike, but it will be out and steaming before I seriously consider buying one. 
With all due respect to Cliff, I have had it with Accucraft's attitude towards their customers. However, it may be our own fault; if we didn't drool anticipating products with habitual shortcomings, perhaps they would change their policies. 
Now, I will climb down from my soapbox to say that I still think my 4-4-0 is a great engine. It received much attention and put on an impressive show while running at the NJLS fall meet this past weekend. 

Larry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The thing that confounds me about Accucraft's pricing is how "all over the board" it seems to be. For instance, their new 1:29 live steam 0-6-0 is half the price of their 1:32 0-6-0. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in terms of detail level, both are well up to what we'd expect from Accucraft. I don't recall if one has a "better" valve gear than the other, but that hardly would compensate for such a profound price difference. Why, also, would a flat car with a few extra detail parts (spreader OV) cost the same as a live steam locomotive, where a caboose--with a full interior, lights, etc., costs less than half? 

None of this detracts from the models themselves, it's just one of those odd things that just makes us sit back and scratch our heads. Where do the price differences come from? Production numbers? How large are these production runs on the less expensive cars relative to their costlier brethren? If there's a great discrepancy, why the speculation on some where other announced products seem to languish for a few years before becoming reality? I don't know if there are answers; it's just all very random--which I think adds to the general feeling of frustration. 

Later, 

K


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin what I notice is that they seem to think that D valves vs Piston valve worth more, both are the same machining to build so I really cant understand either. The S12 had a hand pump to that say an extra 50-75.00 other than that the 2 locos are the same. The S12 had simplifies Walscherts and the 060 has dual eccentrics driving the valves same a a Ruby but with valve gear along for the ride. 

personally I dont mind piston valves if they were done correct and not a interferance fit so it can wear out later and then not have the parts for it. Since Dave Hottman has been installing o Rings on the pistons for repairs you would think the company woud take that and go foward with it on the other production. But as some told me they wont fix it since they sell it now with no problems why spend more to make it better if only a few percent complain..


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I, like Pete, have a C-16 converted to #7 


I'll tell the wife we won't need the funds until "late 2009" [read: mid-2010 if history is a guide.]  But she has offered to pay for an alternate, so maybe a C-19, the 'real' #7, should be converted to EBT style. Then I'll have a big one and a small one, both #7. 

[Tom - I also discovered first #4, the D&RGW #13 2-8-0, has 40" drivers just like those on a B'mann ten-wheeler; and SMU has the drawings. So I persuaded wife to buy me another 4-6-0 to add to the one I have - can't make a 2-8-0 without 8 drivers!] 

It also begs the question of whether they will ever do #14 and #15.


I did wonder how many folk have ordered a #14 or #15 but would take a #12 if that were all that they had announced. Maybe those folk should be "persuaded" (don't ask me how) to switch to ordering a #12 to make up the numbers!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Pete, 

Drawings for both #7 and #3 (identical to #4) appeared in a recent Timber Transfer. 

Unfortunately for me, there are too many details different between the EBT's #7 and the C-19 Accucraft produced to justify the expense of buying one and tossing everything but the boiler and chassis. When they first announced they were doing the C-19, I gave them drawings and photos of #7 in both EBT and OR&W appearances in the off chance they'd offer it as one of those prototypes. Perhaps someday... 

For nos. 3 through 5, you're better off getting Hartland's 2" drivers, as they match the older style. Since you'll have to make your own frame anyway, you might as well. I priced them once upon a time, and it came to something like $80 including a motor! One day I'll get off my arse and order a set from Phil, as #4 is on my radar screen, too. 

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

there are too many details different between the EBT's #7 and the C-19 Accucraft produced to justify the expense of buying one and tossing everything but the boiler and chassis.


Kevin, 

I'm not thinking of tossing the boiler and chassis - it's live steam! Details are easy compared with procuring steel wheels, as you know. 

Durango Dan posted a link to Accucraft's large pic of the DSP&P #51 (#191) and it looks to have the same goodies as the RGS #42 C-16, including a small tender and old-style domes. Transposing those goodies onto a C-19 boiler would get us halfway there, I guess. 

DSP&P #51 Large Pic from 1:20.3 blog 
_
Nice paint job on this loco._


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