# DEFIND "KIT BASHING"



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

As I was wandering up and down the Isles of the hobby department , G scale section of Evil Bay. I saw this guy who "Kit Bashed" a SD-45

All I think he did was paint it BNSF colors.

Does repainting a piece of rolling stock constitute "Kit Bashing"?

Do you really have to get in there with the power saws, 50 gallons of CA, 100 sheets of styrene plastic, and do a face reconstruction surgery in order to be considered "Kit BAshing"?

Do you really have to have a kit in the first place?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep you bet JJ. Kit bash means working over a loco to change it or make a new type of loco. Just painting it is not in my words a kit bash. Later RJD


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

shouldn't kitbashing include at least some plastic surgery? 
instead of pure makeup...


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

What is 'kit-bashing'.... let UPS or airline baggage people handle your kit instead of taking it in your carryon, you'll find out pretty quick....... 

Is a simple custom repaint a 'kitbash', not by my lights. But if he mixed and matched parts or added detail castings, it might be.I don't know where the line IS. 

Another question I've often considered is when does a kitbash become a scratchbuild or te other way around? Most of us now use factory motor blocks. We don't cast our own wheels, hob our own gears, or wind our own motors.... Too time consuming, and why reinvent the wheel?. At what % of material from a single donor piece does it cease to be a scratch and turn into a bash? 

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I think scratch building comes under....."I aint got no kit" 


PS The answer to the Angle question is......All of them.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you change a car or engine that you bought or otherwise acquired it is bashing. If you buy a kit and modify it that is legimatily kit bashing. We don't have a word for making a ready to run purchase into something different.

The only thing that comes to mind is LGB bashing, but that is a totally different subject. I think that LGB got us to where we are and what I do to my LGB car or engine is my own business: is it bashing or improvement?

Chuck N


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry Chuck your answer is out of the ball park. As we say kit bashing is adding/modifying a car/engine/building. to make it more to proto type and then some is kit bashing. Later RJD


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Modifying a RTR model to make a new class or type has become part of Kit Bashing. It used to be way back when I was knee high to a grasshopper, that a bash was using 2 or more kits to make somethimg unique. As noted above we don't have kits, but we do have parts like motor blocks and shells and pvc pipe.... 

Adding details was/is Super Detailing rather than bashing ... I took these two kits and bashed them together and this popped out! 

ps; the Angels are at vespers... there'll be no dancing! ha ha

John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry RJD I have to disagree with you. I have never seen a definition of bashing to move a model to a more prototypical result. We have an entire forum on "Whysmical and Fun Trains" that is largely based upon bashing of one sort or another or building from scratch.

Bashing is changing, either to something more prototypical or something never seen before.

The body of my rotary snow plow started out from a Delton Caboose that was badly damaged by a hail storm. I converted it to a rotary shell that the D&RGW never saw. It worked for me and kept the snow out of the motor.



















It may not be a bash, by your definition, but it is my mine.

Chuck N 


PS: Here is the caboose after Mother Nature tried her hand as kit bashing. I salvaged what was left.










PPS: The diesel in the second picture started out life as an LGB White Pass with sound, Unfortunately, they never made the Rio Grande with sound. You have to do what you have to do to get a train that you can relate to. Whether or not it is 100% prototypical. 


I consider my GR to be a museum and a short line. That way I can run all sorts of trains that were close to real and also never existed.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

We don't have a word for making a ready to run purchase into something different. 
I dunno about you, but by the time I'm done disassembling a locomotive or piece of rolling stock to rebild it, it's a "kit."  

To me, "kitbashing" involves a significant re-envisioning of the starting point relative to the finished product. For instance, take two Bachmann 2-8-0 conversions: 

Example 1) 









Example 2) 









Both started with the same locomotive. In example one, the "only" work done invoved moving domes, extending the smokebox, and adding a few bits here and there. The second one involved replacing the cab, narrowing the running boards, shortening the pilot, lowering the stacks and domes, modifying the valve gear, and scratchbuilding a new tender. I would not call the first modification a "kitbash" by any means. It's modified to be sure, but falls more under the category of "superdetailing." The second falls more into the category of kitbash, since there are significant visual changes (i.e., a change in scale from 1:20 to 1:24) that took place. 

In terms of "scratchbuilding," there's a phrase that's kicked around called "scratch-bashing." It's kind of extreme kit-bashing, to where you use commercial parts in a frankenstein sort of way, combining a bit of this, a bit of that, a bit of the other, and a few other odds and ends, combined with fabricacting things from raw materials to create the model. 










I'd really be hesitant to call this project a "kitbash." It's not so much starting with a model of "X" and ending up with a model of "Y," but starting with a big bin of parts from numerous donors, and creating something unique from them. No, I didn't build each element from scratch, so it's not scratchbuilt, but it's definitely something a bit more extreme than cutting up a model and adding parts from another. 

In terms of an "official" defiinition of scratchbuilding when it comes to models, the NMRA (dare I use those four letters) allows for varying degrees of scratchbuilding when it comes to evaluating a model in their criteria. (There's a lot with their critera that I don't agree with, but this makes sense.) Your range of points available for the "scratchbuilding" total of your score is based on how much you did scratchbuild. It's not an either/or thing. It's kind of a "scratchbuilt, using a commercial motor block" kind of thing. 

But no--a new coat of paint does not qualify as "kitbashing"... 

Later, 

K


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess my modification [severe] to build a SantaFe M-190 [Pellican] articulated doodlebug is considered a kitbash rather than a scratchbuild since it began with these parts: 










All of the roof components were either scratchbuilt or greatly modified non-model RR parts. For example, the roof of the engine section was plexiglas melted over a 2x4. The radiators started life as Radio Shack 3v-AA battery holders. The piping on the radiators was sprue from a model car kit Many other parts were fabricated out of various thicknesses of styrene. Parts from numerous locos, cars, and model parts suppliers in HO, O, and G scales were adapted. The graphics were designed with Powerpoint and printed on my lazer printer, using waterproof mailing labels. The striping came from the local Auto Hot Rod Shop.



















JimC.


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## caferacer (Jul 22, 2010)

Kit bashing is changing something from what it was to what it is now I kit bash motorcycles from a standard t120 Triumph to a caferacer change the Seat,Handle bars,Tank,Brakes,Pipes,fit Rearsets,New Paint,even the handling of the machine completly change the bike to what I like or the customer would like to see thats my version of kit bashing started in 1973 and still in business still enjoy the challenge to this day. 
Chuck n do really like the snow plow great job love to see it working one day,I for one plan to kitbash a fair few of my rolling stock and plan to kit bash a 4-6-4+4-6-4 Beyer Garratt from a brass loco just so I can run it on my narrow gauge line. 
Kit bashing is a fun part of any hobby and should be my account invole changing at least 50 percent of the object to some thing else the materials out their plastics, brass piping, plastic piping etc is great ,I use shim metal alot from the auto store brass shim sheets size of a a4 peice of paper in different thickness for my model ships and plan to use this on my railroad kit bashing projects as well thats my version of kitbashing like to see more of it caferacer


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

This is why the AV's Skunkworks only produces 'mangles'.... They iz what they iz. No hair splitting or nit picking required.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll take Kevin's and JC's definitions of bashing. 

Bashing does imply combining things, "bashing" together. 

Detailing is detailing, not bashing. 

Painting is painting. 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 20 Aug 2010 07:53 PM 
This is why the AV's Skunkworks only produces 'mangles'.... They iz what they iz. No hair splitting or nit picking required.









WHAT............................


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Caferacer:

Here is it in action.










Chuck N


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

E B T 
Example 1 and 2 are absolutly beautiful. I love those engines....You did a great Job.


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## Dwayne (Jun 10, 2010)

In my world I 'convert'  

http://dn30daze2.blogspot.com/ 

As shown in the above link a new Bachmann 0-4-0 Porter provided a set of drivers, running gear, a motor/gearbox and about 80% of the original frame. All the new components are whatever items and materials work to create a 'sparky' steamer. 

Since I lean towards freelanced lokies this approach appeals to me and will give me a plausable engine. Most of all I'm simply having fun.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Where does "kit-bashing" diverge from "super detailing?" With "scratch building" I can see where using styrene sheets and aerosol can caps as well as brass stock, steel bars, etc... would define what you are doing. Using an existing model and significantly changing it with the addition of styrene sheets, aerosol can caps, brass stock, steel bars, etc... is then defined as "kit-bashing!" Using detail parts to change the model to something different would seem to fall under the category of "super-detailing?" Just painting a model with a different roadname would seem to me to be a "repaint." The extremes, "scratch-building" and "re-painting" are relatively easy to define but the difference between "super-detailing" and "kit bashing" are not so easy to discern! How much must be done before a "super-detailed" model becomes a "kit bash?"


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think you would be hard pressed to significantly change a model to "something else" significant with detail parts. 

I always think of bashing like the 2 Pacifics that were used to make my 4-8-4 Northern, and 2 E8A's to make an E8B... or my friend's GE U boat, like a U30 I think from a couple of U25's... 

Regards, Greg


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## caferacer (Jul 22, 2010)

Chuck n Thats great could use it today we have two feet snow great shot. 
Jim thats a great model kitbashed DOODLEBUG well done. 
Greg E I agree with you painting is painting and bashing means to change add and bash something into something different caferacer


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

How much must be done before a "super-detailed" model becomes a "kit bash?" 
Super detailing - taking a model of a GP-9 and making it a model of a specific GP-9 on a specific railroad with specific details (or something of that ilk.) 
Kitbashing - taking a model of a GP-9 and making it an SD-9. 

The difference (in my opinion) is a significant departure from the original. 

Here's the "before paint" photos of the two examples I posted above. 

Example 1 









Example 2 









There was a significant reworking of example 2 in terms of narrowing it and replacing a lot of the original elements with new ones. The pilot was shortened, narrowed, with new cowcatcher. The cab was completely replaced with a new floor, running boards cut down, and a scratchbuilt tender. Example one had a few air tanks and tooboxes added, and the domes moved around. 

Another example: 









This is a superdetailed 4-4-0. There were no substantial changes to it to create a model of Tuscarora Valley (former Eagle's Mere) #5. I changed a few details here and there to match the specific prototype, but that was pretty much it. 

Compare to this: 









The same starting point, but a completely different result. The boiler was lengthened at the firebox, the cab was raised, and the entire thing was placed on a different chassis, which is a blend of a Barry's Big Trains 2-8-0 chassis with a new front end from parts liberated from my scrap box. The end result is still a model of a specific prototype, but the prototype bears little (or no) resemblance to the starting point. 

Later, 

K


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## caferacer (Jul 22, 2010)

K East Broad Top Nows thats kitbashing great job started out with something changed it around,do like EBT on the tender for the railroad name I kitbashed a bike for a Client in NEW YORK once as per his request took the engine out of frame fitted a new frame a new engine completly different from were we started custom made the lot alloy tank,seat,clip on ,mirrors ,new rear swing arm ,new frame,engine mounts exhaust,he spend over 50 grand he was happy with what i built ,gave me the old parts two complete bikes and check for 50 grand four months work can honestly say that was a bike like no other the real kitbashed machine ,he sold it for 65 grand everyones happy caferacer


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm, back in my rivet counting (oy, never again!!!) days I had one projcet which used the frame and ends bought from Al Westerfield up in Crossville, as they were used in one of his boxcar kits, adding some code 55 rail and styrene and other bits and a sh**load of TINY twigs to build an NC&StL pulpwood rack. 

That was a kitbash....a scratchbuild, or? 

For the NC&StL in their Nashville shops just down the street (now an office complex and park), it was cutting down an ancient wooden Fowler box car to make pulpwood rack car....rebuild? 

Taking a B&O resin caboose kit and asking the vendor of the kit (who obliged, and used photos for his business) for a different underframe and steps for a different sub-class....Built the kit with the bits, I would consider this a kit, maybe not bash? Not sure what the B&O called it, other than built to suit their needs and a few of them ended up in central Ohio. 

Taking a Bowser NC&StL covered hopper kit, moving doors, slight paint tinting, removing all ladders, etc....then doing the same thing with an ancient ConCor blob of an "Airslide" for PPR purposes, and then replacing all roof walks, end beams, brakes, etc... Kitbash, super-detail, or correcting what should have been done right in the first place? I have an AnnArbor malt car (started with a "close" PS hopper kit from Walthers I can only use a bit of) I still need to finish, and anyone want stacks of Atlas ACF hoppers in assorted levels of "improvement" that will never get done? 

Should I bring up the Canadian insulated box car project that uses only (parts of) the sides of some craptacular Walthers kit from the 1980s? 

Call it what you will, but any which way all of the above took hours and a lot of thought, just like many of the other models shown above by their builders....regardless of what others want to call them, they are all efforts of their own right. Just don't let them drive you crazy....been there, done that.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry but simply repainting something to a different roadname without any other physical change to the model is NOT a kitbash, its a simple repaint. 

Kitbashing involves physically modifying one model kit, with parts or supplies either from other kits or scratchbuilt to create something new that has physical differences from the original starting point. 

Its as simple as that. Now this can be a simple as adding a more correct fan shroud to a dismal engine, or a complex rebuild like Rocky's SD-9 from a GP-9 project.


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

* Ah, my name has been envoked







*
*A paint job, no matter how complex could not be considered a "kitbash" . Also I'm not sure if adding details without Cutting or physically changing a loco or freight car or passenger car body/shell would qualify either. JC's and EBT's pictures show many pains taking hours of modification. Those would qualify as kitbashing. I've been there too having done 8 Diesels and a couple steamers myself. Scratch building I believe is working from , well, scratch and no kit or model to start from. It is quite difficult to do, not even I have not made it to that point yet. Now I find that my models take anywhere from 3 to 4 locos to build just one loco. Manufacturers don't like selling shells, and when they do, it's best to just buy a whole loco to start with - gives you more parts for your $$$. The SD-9 I'm building DOES take 3 locos to make it and parts from a 4th I had to buy. But I may be lucky enough to kitbash the E-8 I bought for the fans, piping and winter hatch into a E-7. So from 4 locos I will get 2 out of it. And I always the save the spare parts, shell sections and what ever is left over. Someone is always looking for something and you may use the spoils of your builds to help build something else *









*Rocky*


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*These are Kit bashes, Painting, does not makeith a kit bash*


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