# Deadleg Lubricators



## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all....I'm looking for plans/drawings for a metered deadleg lubricator with drain.  Anyone know of a source?

Thanks


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

We made some for our donkeys. However, they are not metered. See here:

http://wegmuller.org/logging/Sheet16.pdf

Regards


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Howard:  Here is a metered, deadleg lubricator with a drain.  It is a side view of an LBSC design.  The tank fits between the frames of one of his UK type engines, so it is 1 5/16" long.  I bet you can alter the tank to suit your set-up.  The valve assembly is the main part.










Your Climax looks great, coming along very well.  Looking forward to your next.

Bob


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bob and Henner.  Your drawings will be very useful.  In the meantime, I was also able to find the drawing shown below using a Google search which led me to a Yahoo group and lo and behold after jumping two additonal links from there I ended up back here on MLS in a message thread started by Dwight a few years back.  In that thread, Harry Wade showed a metered, dead leg lubricator w/drain. Small world!!

Why I couldn't find it with a search here on MLS, I don't know.   








Bob, in your drawing, I assume the 1/8" or  3/32" pipe at the bottom is the drain pipe at the end of which is a valve (not shown)...right:?

BTW.....I'm considering making the body of the lubricator out of glass tubing, assembled between a top metering brass valve/filler plug sub-assembly and a bottom drain valve sub-assembly.  Each sub-assembly will have a flange with 4 matching holes for bolts to span the glass tube.  Each end of the glass tube will seat in a matching flange groove containing an o-ring.  Probably an overkill, but I'd like to see if I could do it and primarily to see the amount of water gathering at the bottom of the lubricator during a run.  I believe this would help in adjusting the metering valve.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Howard:  You are correct.  The tube at the bottom is the drain.  LBSC used a curved drain tube and ran it out the front of the loco with a cap on the end.

I like your design idea for the glass tube.  It will work fine.

These designs call for a 7BA thread.  Use 3 x 48 instead of 7BA.  

Bob


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

I received the glass tubing (pyrex) needed for my lubricator.  Even bought a glass tube cutter.  But I've not been succesful in scoring the pyrex tube's surface.   Any suggestions on how to cut pyrex tubing??Aaaany ny suggestions on cutting pyrex tubing??


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The method I have always seen described is to file a crossways notch with a triangular file at the cut point, then place the thumbs on the opposite side of the tube, gripping with the fingers on each side and "bend" the tube, and it will break.  I have never tried it as I have always feared the tubing shattering.  But I am going to have to try it someday... let me know if it works for you to bolster my confidence!!!

What does your glass tube cutter look like.

Oh, I just thought of another method I have heard of for cutting the top off a glass bottle... fill the bottle to the level you want to cut off and then pour a small quantity of oil on it.  Then plunge a red hot iron into the oil.  The shockwave propagating through the oil will break the glass.  I wonder if it could also break the tube if it was as deep into the water as you want the tube length to be.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I ended up back here on MLS in a message thread started by Dwight a few years back.
That thread is available in PDF format via the Informative Threads Index.


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## HeliconSteamer (Jan 2, 2008)

I used the triangular file method several times in a chemistry class and had good results. As I recall, you just needed to file a small notch and then use the file as a pressure point to break the tube at the score mark.


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 03/19/2008 10:04 PM
The method I have always seen described is to file a crossways notch with a triangular file at the cut point, then place the thumbs on the opposite side of the tube, gripping with the fingers on each side and "bend" the tube, and it will break.  I have never tried it as I have always feared the tubing shattering.  But I am going to have to try it someday... let me know if it works for you to bolster my confidence!!!

What does your glass tube cutter look like.

Oh, I just thought of another method I have heard of for cutting the top off a glass bottle... fill the bottle to the level you want to cut off and then pour a small quantity of oil on it.  Then plunge a red hot iron into the oil.  The shockwave propagating through the oil will break the glass.  I wonder if it could also break the tube if it was as deep into the water as you want the tube length to be.

Thanks for the ideas....I'll give them a try.  I can see using the triangular file scoring method on a small diameter, thick wall tube, but what I'm trying to cut is 1/2" diameter with only about a 1/16" thick wall.

Here's a picture of the glass tube cutter I bought.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Is it too long to chuck up in your lathe? You could easily score it all around that way (with the file or a pointed tool). 

My motto:  Never use muscle when there's an electric motor that will do the same job.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Howard, 

Take your triangular file and score a line all the way around the glass tube...tedious, but it has a higher percent of not breaking the tube when compared to using that harbor freight cutter or putting it in a lathe ( I shudder at the last one, the chuck or collet would probably end up shattering the tube.) I've cut tubing the same diameter as you have, same wall thickness too, with no breakage using the score and snap method. It just takes a little bit more time to do this way, but it's fool proof. Don't forget to heat the ends of the glass to a dull red after you cut it to avoid cracks in the tube (in other words, glaze over the ends).


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Howard,
I got good results by chucking the tube loosely in the lathe with some cardboard packing and then making the notch all around with a Dremel cutoff wheel. For breaking it, I wrap a cloth around the tube. And yes, you should glaze over the ends.
Regards


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 03/19/2008 10:04 PM
Oh, I just thought of another method I have heard of for cutting the top off a glass bottle... fill the bottle to the level you want to cut off and then pour a small quantity of oil on it.  Then plunge a red hot iron into the oil.  The shockwave propagating through the oil will break the glass.  I wonder if it could also break the tube if it was as deep into the water as you want the tube length to be.

I just remember my dad cutting off the top of large bottles using a length of butcher string dipped in alcohol.  Once he'd wrapped it around the bottle at the cut line, he then lit the string with a match and after the flame went out, he'd dunk the bottle in cold water and the top of the bottle would snap off right at the heated string.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Howard:  I have discovered that the ends of glass tube are fairly easy to grind.  Drill a hole in a piece of wood very slightly over sized of the glass, slip the glass tube in the hole, lay that down on a sheet of 320 or 400 grit oiled black (silcon carbide) sand paper.  Hold the block by hand and apply slight downward pressure with a finger.  This makes a good, square clean end and helps shorten a piece that may be a "TT" too long.  Takes a little while but the result is good

Bob


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

I just started using Google's SketchUp to make 3D representations.  Here's what I've done so far on the Dead Leg Lubricator. The metering valve, drain valve, and filler plug are yet to go.

Anyone else using SketchUp?

*http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL92/797386/16909521/309406203.jpg*

*http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL92/797386/16909521/309406200.jpg*

_Images exceed 640 pixel max. width - converted to links. Mod._


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Howard,

Here is a picture of the lubricator installed on the EDHL donkey engine prior to paint.  You can see that we used Coles superscale pipe fittings threaded to 5/32 MTP.  These lubricators work well.  The meteing feature is nice but we were very careful to drill the steam hole inside the lubricator VERY SMALL.  We knew that it could be made larger if necessary.  They do not over oil. so we ended up being satisfied with the hole size that we chose.  The cool thing about these is that the position of the drain handle is fully adjustable so we can make sure that it is accessible amongst the network of pipes on the donkey engine.









Here is a picture of the lubricator after paint and the installation of the twin exhaust stacks:









As you can see the lubricator blends in well with the various fittings on the donkey.

Regards,


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By maculsay on 03/20/2008 5:23 PM
I just started using Google's SketchUp to make 3D representations.  Here's what I've done so far on the Dead Leg Lubricator. The metering valve, drain valve, and filler plug are yet to go.

Anyone else using SketchUp?

*http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL92/797386/16909521/309406203.jpg*

*http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL92/797386/16909521/309406200.jpg*

_Images exceed 640 pixel max. width - converted to links. Mod._


Yes, SketchUp is GRAND! I have used it for many drawings.  Makes it a whole lot easier to visualize some things!

Your drawings are very nice.  Ain't it FUN to use and easy to do (well, most of the time!)

Download the "Locomotive Tour" from the 3-D Warehouse (I assume it is still there).  You can let the animation run through the "tour" or step though the images one at a time.  The "tour" skips the last 4 or 5 slides, so you can only get to them manually; they are a comparison of the Accucraft "Ruby" style valves to a standard slide valve setup.  I did this for a "tech talk" at a Cedar Valley Garden Railway Society meeting last year.  I had SketchUp make a movie of the animation but the rendering got really blotchy and it is not very good.

There are several steam locomotives in the warehouse that people have done, but 98% are outrageously ridiculous!  It seems very few people really know what a steam locomotive looks like or how they work.


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 02/11/2008 1:43 PM
We made some for our donkeys. However, they are not metered. See here:

http://wegmuller.org/logging/Sheet16.pdf


Posted By Eric M. on 03/20/2008 6:33 PM

The cool thing about these is that the position of the drain handle is fully adjustable so we can make sure that it is accessible amongst the network of pipes on the donkey engine.









Henner and Eric....thank you for the drawing & picture of your lubricator.
I'm especially interested in the drain valve design shown on your Sheet #16.  I'm can't determine how it works.  I can see that the sleeve(#162) threads onto the bottom of the Body(#160) and that the Drain valve(#163) threads into the sleeve.  I can see where there are 1mm x 1mm notches at right angles across the top of the valve, But, since the 2mm hole through the bottom of the Body appears to continue right on through the valve, what stops the oil/water from coming out the bottom?  I assume that rotating the handle on the Sleeve opens/closes the valve, but I don't see how that action restricts the flow of oil/water out ther bottom.

I know it's me, but what am I missing.  I really want to try this design because of its simplicity and as Eric stated in his message, "the fully adjustable position of the handle". 

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, Ryan, Charles, Bob, Henner, et al....thanks for the glass tube cutting ideas.  I'm going to use a scoring method as suggested.  I have some wood dowling that I'll fit to inside diameter of the glass tube....kinda like a mandrell...but in this case for only alignment purposes.  By mounting the dowel in my lathe chuck I cant get good concentricity/alignment, then using a pointed diamond tool in my Dremel mounted on my crosslide, I can hand rotate the lathe chuck to get a accurate scoring all the way around.  I'll let you know the results.


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 03/20/2008 8:53 PM
Download the "Locomotive Tour" from the 3-D Warehouse (I assume it is still there).  You can let the animation run through the "tour" or step though the images one at a time.  The "tour" skips the last 4 or 5 slides, so you can only get to them manually; they are a comparison of the Accucraft "Ruby" style valves to a standard slide valve setup.  I did this for a "tech talk" at a Cedar Valley Garden Railway Society meeting last year.  I had SketchUp make a movie of the animation but the rendering got really blotchy and it is not very good.
end of quote



Charles....WOW!...your Locomotive Tour is superb.  What a great idea for making a presentation.  I've just at the beginning on learning how to us the software.  Thanks for you input and comments.


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

Where I live, I can't buy small parts, "sorry, we don't have anything smaller than 1/2".  I go to web sites (Small Parts.com) and still can't find them, SO.... give me information about what parts I need and where to get them, please.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi,
all you dead legs out there 
The LBSC type lubricator is the perfect fit for my Betsy project. However I won't be able to run the feed tube horizontally due to space restrictions. Any opinions on how to place such a lubricator: 
- connecting line probably rising from lubricator to main line, as oil is lighter than water?
- maximum length/diameter of dead leg?
Regards


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Howard,

There is a stainless ball inside the the drain assembly on the lubricator.  I think the ball actually acts as the "stopper" when the valve handle is tightened.  The ball may not be shown in the drawing, so that would probably be the "missing link".  Henner would have to elaborate on how it works since he is our resident machinist/engineer.  I merely acted as the pipe fitter, silver solderer and painter on the plumbing end of this project.

Regards,


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Eric M. on 03/24/2008 9:07 AM
Howard,

There is a stainless ball inside the the drain assembly on the lubricator.  ....
Regards,
Yep,
our whistle punk got it right. Some more years and he will be woods boss!
Regards


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Eric M. on 03/24/2008 9:07 AM
Howard,

There is a stainless ball inside the the drain assembly on the lubricator.  I think the ball actually acts as the "stopper" when the valve handle is tightened.  The ball may not be shown in the drawing, so that would probably be the "missing link".  Henner would have to elaborate on how it works since he is our resident machinist/engineer.  I merely acted as the pipe fitter, silver solderer and painter on the plumbing end of this project.

Regards,


Thanks Eric & Henner....that clears that up.  Henner, what size SS Ball is used?


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Howard,
I used 1/8" or 3mm balls.
Regards


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

It has been very hard to dedicate any time to actual building of my lubricator. I've finally got my drawing together and only have one tap and die to procure. I decided to use David Bailey's needle valve as the metering valve, and I'll be machining the rest.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Harold, 
very nice design! It will be interesting to see if the sight glass idea works. 
Regards


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, the glass tube idea does seem to have some merit. 1.) Being able to see when oil is needed and 2.) the ability to increase the amount of oil stored in the lubricator by just cutting a longer piece of glass tubing. 
Of course, it's the cutting of the glass tubing that has presented the biggest challenge. I've tried the scoring the tube by hand, but still get a crack that ruins that needed straight cut. I'm going to try a 3/8" dia.wood dowel mandrell mounted in the lathe's chuck (hand turned), so I can get an accurate scoring from my Dremel's diamond pointed tool.


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## doublereefed (Jan 3, 2008)

Harold, nice design. One comment. I have a Pearse Mogul on which the displacement lubricator has a drain valve. It's not a dead leg setup, but I have noticed that when I drain the lubricator when hot that I get a homogenous thickish mixture. If I drain when cold (as before a run instead of after) I'll get water, then nothing. I have to remove the cap and then let the cold thick oil drain slowly or I just "pump" it a bit with a finger over the hole. I usually just suck it out with a syringe. Given hot water/steam, I think the mixture in the lubricator will be a uniform and that the oil/water line will not be visible. Experience with dead legs on Aster engines is pretty much the same... the mixture on a hot engine is homogenous, but when sucking the contents out of a cold engine the oil/water separation is present. That's just my experience. 

Carry on with the design and implementation because it will be a really interesting feature on your engine, and it will be interesting to visualize what's going on in that lubricator in terms of oil/water mix during startup, running, and cooldown. 

One other comment based on my experience is that it's pretty easy to cut tubing to length with scoring as described, but very difficult to get square ends. I had breakage when I tried different techniques to sand or machine true ends. Your design depends on mostly squared-off ends (squared tubing pressing against o-ring in bottom of channel). You may want to set it up to seal against the OD of the glass tube instead. You could use a keeper plate at both ends. I can't say most, but the past few Aster engines I have built or rebuilt use a seal against the OD of the tubing. The horribly disfunctional yet steam tight sight glass on my 7 1/2" engine also seals against the OD. Something to thing about given that I could never get suitably square ends on tubing. The techniques described here by others may very well compensate for my lack of skill in that department though. 

-Richard


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## abby (Jan 9, 2008)

Like semper said , make a small nick with a 3square file , grip between the thumbs and forefingers and bend away from yourself , it won't shatter . it really is very easy, and the cut will be clean and straight . If you are still unsure hold the tube in a piece of cloth. 
After cutting , heat the cut end by slowly rotating on the edge of a bunsen or torch flame until the cut fuses to a nice polished end. 
With a little practice you can make u-bends and even t-pieces!" border=0> 
By the way can anyone recommend drawings for a G1 size mechanical lube ?


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By doublereefed on 04/10/2008 11:39 AM
Harold, nice design. One comment. I have a Pearse Mogul on which the displacement lubricator has a drain valve. It's not a dead leg setup, but I have noticed that when I drain the lubricator when hot that I get a homogenous thickish mixture. If I drain when cold (as before a run instead of after) I'll get water, then nothing. I have to remove the cap and then let the cold thick oil drain slowly or I just "pump" it a bit with a finger over the hole. I usually just suck it out with a syringe. Given hot water/steam, I think the mixture in the lubricator will be a uniform and that the oil/water line will not be visible. Experience with dead legs on Aster engines is pretty much the same... the mixture on a hot engine is homogenous, but when sucking the contents out of a cold engine the oil/water separation is present. That's just my experience. 
Carry on with the design and implementation because it will be a really interesting feature on your engine, and it will be interesting to visualize what's going on in that lubricator in terms of oil/water mix during startup, running, and cooldown. 
One other comment based on my experience is that it's pretty easy to cut tubing to length with scoring as described, but very difficult to get square ends. I had breakage when I tried different techniques to sand or machine true ends. Your design depends on mostly squared-off ends (squared tubing pressing against o-ring in bottom of channel). You may want to set it up to seal against the OD of the glass tube instead. You could use a keeper plate at both ends. I can't say most, but the past few Aster engines I have built or rebuilt use a seal against the OD of the tubing. The horribly disfunctional yet steam tight sight glass on my 7 1/2" engine also seals against the OD. Something to thing about given that I could never get suitably square ends on tubing. The techniques described here by others may very well compensate for my lack of skill in that department though. 
-Richard




Richard, I appreciate you sharing your experience. Here's what I'm expecting to see in the lubricator's sight glass (of course, time and testing will tell)....a separation between steam oil and the creamed-coffee brown emulsification of oil and water. When the emulsified oil and water reaches the top of the glass it's time to replace it will new oil. 

I've added keeper plates for sealing the OD of the tubing like you suggested. If I can't achieve a seal with the o-rings in the channel, I'll add o-rings to fit the exterior of the tube and retain them with the keepers. Great idea, thanks. I changed my drawing and updated my earlier message.


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