# Rail Clamps



## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Opinions on using.  Necessary?  Only good for problem areas?  Wouldn't lay track without them?  Waste of time?  Are they worth the expense?

Which is better, Hillman or Split-Jaw?  Hillman is cheaper.  What about quality?   Is there enough difference between them to care?  Is there enough difference between them to worry about mixing them on a layout?

Richard and Carol Hillman want to retire and are trying to sell the business.  Concerns about viability of the product in the future?
Have there been any failure or warranty issues?  Can the tiny screws be readily obtained?  They are easy to drop and lose if you accidentaly take one all the way out.

All my track is  well used.  Some Aristo, some LGB.  Some have stock slip joiners, some pretty badly bent up.  Some have rail clamps, brand unknown.  Would it be better to get some that fit over the joiners, or to take the effort to remove old slip joiners and go with standard rail clamps?

Thanks for your comments.

Michael


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael,

 I went for about 18 years with out needing them. But all my track was new when laid. I used a conductive grease when
laying the track.  With used track, I think I would use them if you are going with track power.


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

michael 

You didn't state your power/control approach. Those who use track power are the main users of railclamps. Those of us who use batteries save ourself the expense (and it does add up over a fair sized railroad). 

If the movement is toward battery power then perhaps there is a long term viability issue. Recently, i was invited to vist a rather large HO home railroad - and I met the owner and one of his regular crew. After they found out that my primary interest was large scale, they bombarded me with questions about batteries and when the technology might be useable in HO. They seem convinced it is the future ideal as did the editor of MR in a recent editorial as he mused on the use of batteries to eliminate the wiring complexities and track cleaning inherent in HO. 

Regards ... Doug


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

As others have said....If you are  using  battery power  you really don't  need  rail clamps.

I use them anyway.   I think they make a better joint.

I use both  Hillman and  Slpit Jaw.

I prefer Hillman.  I think they  are easier to put on and blend better.  

I never had issues with lost screws.  They are  large enough to  find in the dirt.   Or  drag a magnet through the dirt.   

Which ever one you choose.  Find  a  hardware store that sells   individual allen keys.   Buy  6  keys with balls on the end to fit  the clamp screw.

Buy a  five foot  length of  the  heavest loging chain you can find for each  key.       Weld the  Allen key to the end of the loging chain   Then  Paint them  birght orange. 

  There have to be at least  150 lost allen keys some where  rusting away on my  layout.


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## Joe McGarry (Jan 4, 2008)

I put together 100' of aristo track last year using Hillman clamps, found them easy to install and really keep rail ends in alignment. Resistance measures less than 1 ohm end to end over 100'of track. Unfortunately Hillman is no longer producing clamps the last I heard. 

Plan to try some split jaw clamps as they seem similar in design.  Hope someone will start producing Hillman clamps again of the same quality.


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## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

I've used both Hillman and Split-Jaw and they both work very well. You can tell them apart by the V-Groove in the Split-Jaws -vs- the square notch of the Hillman's that fits over the foot of the rail. I've had a few of the Hillman clamps break when the track has been inadvertantly lifted and twisted by wayward feet. They replaced them for me when I contacted them about the problem. Be aware that the two companies use diffeerent size allen head screws. By all means, remove the stock slip joint railjoiners and just use the clamps. They do get expensive, I reduced the cost somewhat by soldering 3 or 4 sections of track together and then clamping those groupings together. Be aware that the clamps (and soldering) do not allow for expansion and contraction like the slip joints do. If you have a long straight or have experienced these problems, I would suggest using their expansion track insert. They are expensive but they work great. 
Russ


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Micheal 
Just talked to the Hillmans they have shut down. And they have no more clamps and they are not going to make any more. 
Matt


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Wouldn't lay track without Spit-Jaw railclamps, even on battery power.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By cabforward on 03/02/2008 5:55 PM
Micheal 
Just talked to the Hillmans they have shut down. And they have no more clamps and they are not going to make any more. 
Matt


/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By cabforward on 03/02/2008 5:55 PM
Micheal 
Just talked to the Hillmans they have shut down. And they have no more clamps and they are not going to make any more. 
Matt

/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gifSorry to hear that because they do make good stuff. I use some of their specialty clamps; expansion rail and bridge clamps.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Sunset Valley Rail has some nice brass Hillman type clamps. Have to ask Peter there if he has any for the larger codes of track, I know he has Code 250-that's what I use, his rail/clamps. http://www.svrronline.com/TrackandRail.html


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Matt is right guys, I also talked with Carol Hillman on Friday.  They are done.  They don't have any more clamps that I need, after four years of using just Hillman clamps.  So there is no choice for me, its Split Jaw.  Even if they sell the business, if whoever buys it can't make the clamps themselves, and has to outsource them, the price will go up.  Too bad for us. 
Paul


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Quite simply no matter who picked up the line the price would go up. Cost of materials etc.... 

Chas


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've found that with aristo track, which has the little screws that hols the joints together, I don't need rail clamps, But with LGB track i do. I laid a lot of LGB track, some new and some used, using LGB conductive paste, and while I never get completely dead sections i do get little flickers and slowdowns here and there, and it's always on sections of LGB track. Putting clamps in solves the problem for me

Aristocraft makes a  rail clamp now, a different design than ether hillman or split jaw. It's considerably cheaperr. I picked up 100 of them for under 70 bucks. I just started installing them yesterday here and there. So far so good.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

I bought some clamps on Ebay. Have no idea who made them. I use them only on switches so I can remove the switch for maintenance. The rest of the track has the as-supplied Aristo joiners. Some have been soldered, others just use the damnable little screws. And yes! Multiple wrenches are a necessity. Even when painted bright red, they have a habit of disappearing.


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## N.S. Rob (Jan 2, 2008)

If you can afford them use them. The clamps allow you to take a section of track out without disturbing the rest of the laid track. This is nice for re-ballasting a trouble area.


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## bryanj (Jan 2, 2008)

Crap !      /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif   Is it because of material price ?



Posted By cabforward on 03/02/2008 5:55 PM
Micheal 
Just talked to the Hillmans they have shut down. And they have no more clamps and they are not going to make any more. 
Matt


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## jaycosnett (Jan 4, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the Hillmans. 

Jerry and his wife (who run Split-Jaw) are local here in Portland and are great folks and terrific to deal with. They will certainly do whatever they can to earn the business of any former Hillmans customers. I also know that they produce all of their product in their own shop, with local workers. Made in the USA!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

One thing a rail clamp does for al users is align the rails to give a smooth joint. There is a lot of sideways play in slip joiners and the rail clamps eliminate this side play, makes the 2 adjoining rails appear as solid rail at the connection. 

Also, for long straight stretches you nbeed an expansion joint and the clamp manufacturers offer this as well as LGB (10090).


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, as a part-time Oregonian, I have a distinct penchant for Split-Jaw products, in spite of having to use the opposition's lift-out items.

As for the fleeting hex-keys, the chain attachment seems pretty reasonable until you realise that chain just blends in to any ground level railroad scene.  In my backyard track, we use the chain, as recommended above, but weld it to a garbage-can lid.

So far nobody has walked off with it.      

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By tacfoley on 03/04/2008 4:07 AM
Well, as a part-time Oregonian, I have a distinct penchant for Split-Jaw products, in spite of having to use the opposition's lift-out items.

As for the fleeting hex-keys, the chain attachment seems pretty reasonable until you realise that chain just blends in to any ground level railroad scene.  In my backyard track, we use the chain, as recommended above, but weld it to a garbage-can lid.

So far nobody has walked off with it.      

tac
www.ovgrs.org

All I could find was  Rubbermaid  trash cans .   Plastic don't stand up to welding too good.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe the thing to do is put the key on one of those retractable key chains that you hook onto your belt. Instant access -- until you misplace the holder as well as the key!


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 03/03/2008 7:02 AM

Aristocraft makes a  rail clamp now, a different design than ether hillman or split jaw. It's considerably cheaperr. I picked up 100 of them for under 70 bucks. I just started installing them yesterday here and there. So far so good.


I looked at the Aristo clamps.  The screws directly hold the rail.  Looks a little chintzy to me, but hard to tell with the small pictures.

Let us know how it goes with those clamps.

Michael


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Anybody have any experience with the Train-li clamps?  It looks like you tighten them from the top instead of the side.

User reviews?

Michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have not tried them, expensive, very neat looking with the little bolts... they are plastic, and the conductive path is a plate you put in the clamp.... leave it out and you have an insulated joint. I don't think anything can beat SJ or Hillman on the ability to clamp on the rails and that strong clamping action ensures conductivity. 

The Aristo ones with the screws on the top are less expensive, they drilled the holes so close to the outside of the plate many had the screw tear right out. The current run are better, but they do not align the rail heads like SJ and Hillman. 

Sure sorry to see Hillman go, what nice folks, and I got some of his nickle-plated stuff. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've put just a few of the aristo clamps down so far. They're easier to put on, but they don't tighten down as convincingly as the hillmans--the only other kind I've ever used. I read on the Aristo forum that some people had problems with the screws stripping out. The ones I bought are the 2nd generation, but I still think it'd be easy to overtighten them. I'll report back when I've used them all.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I use mostly 60'' rail and double track rail bender made in europe and I solder my joints, I can solder the joint with the standard rail joiner using no screws faster than I can screw the joints together. I use a propane torch after pushing the ties away from joint, solder the joint and pull the ties back to the joint, With the aristo rail joiner filled with solder is a very strong joint that is trouble free. I use the rail clamps on all switches. This has worked very well and very easy for me.
Dennis


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## deeredaze (Mar 10, 2008)

Has anybody thought of going to your local machine shop to get rail clamps made? There isn't much to them.  I'm sure you would have to order  a good many for it to be practical. Nobody is willing to do  a dozen at a time. You can get the socket head cap scews in boxes of 100 from suppliers like Enco or MSC for around $5 or$ 6.  These  supplier also sell allen wrenches in bulk for those of you who keep losing them. As to the chain and garbage can lid, well, you'll have to add that yourself !
Kris


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

As a Hillman fan, I was thinking the last three days as I have used about 65 split jaws, I wonder if there were any dealers for them who might still have some inventory.  Does anyone know if anyone else sold the Hillman clamps or did we always just buy from Dick and Carol?  Just curious.
Paul


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By deeredaze on 03/10/2008 11:28 PM
 Has anybody thought of going to your local machine shop to get rail clamps made? There isn't much to them.  I'm sure you would have to order  a good many for it to be practical. Nobody is willing to do  a dozen at a time. 
Kris


Kris,
  As someone that works in manufacturing i can say at first glance these look pretty simple BUT there are several step and how and when those steps happen can affect the overall cost.

Say you order material in 10 foot lengths. You program your CNC machine to drill and tap one side of the clamps continuously and then to mill out the slot or bevel depnding on type of clamp. You've got nother machine doing the same things only instead of drill & tap it is doing the counterbores (now you've got 2 expensive machines running). Not you've got two "sticks" of clamps all milled out "except" they are all still joined. Now you cut them apart on a  CNC cutter. If they are split jaws they get an extra cut on one side. Now you still need to assemble them and for that it is all by hand. Pay someone minimum wage or do you do it in front of the TV at night? Lots of steps and lots of set ups. IF you are not using CNC machines it is even more steps and set ups. the more you ahve to handle the material, the more it costs, and the more steps there are, the more you have to handle the material.

Still you MIGHT get a local shop to set up to make these for you. AND you might get them cheaper if you assemble them your self and provide your own screws.

Someday I might even try it.

Chas


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Why use brass?   Is it because it is softer and easier to mill?   Is brass the most expensive material?


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

John J, 
As a clamp I'd think that aluminum would be WAY too soft. Even some brass is too soft for some clamps depending on how they are cut/cast as evidenced by some folks having isues with the old Aristo clamps that I think were cast(?) with sharp interior corners raising the stresses and cracking? I'm not sure but I think that is what was reported at some point? Steel would rust away. SS might be too difficult to work for some folks at home? 

Kris PM'd me offlist and we discussed being able to do this at home. Easy wnough it si. and some folks may be lucky wnough to find a local shop to do them cheaply too. There is ALWAYS more than one way to skin a cat and my process was only partially thought thru and dependant on MANY various factors. I knew as soon as I posted someone would come up with a better way. LOL! It's all good! 

Chas


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

We run track power and have had some trouble with current flow. We installed split-jaw rail clamps and no more prodlem. Rail clamps go on pretty easy and are well worth the extra time/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, to the question as to whether the Hillman clamps were sold at hobby stores. I saw this thread and was dismayed as I started with Hillman clamps and prefer them! By the way, don't bother trying Caboose Hobbies if you want regular brass code 332 clamps as I just purchased the last 12 bags of  10 clamps each! They still have code 250 clamps and assorted specialty clamps so if you are needing some _call today!!!!_  My guess is that we have about a week before the supply is _GONE!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif_


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Sunset Valley Rail has brass clamps for $1.78, nickel plated ones also. May only be code 250 though.  I'll try to add a picture to this of them also.   Jerry
http://www.svrronline.com/TrackandRail.html


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Would Not assebling the clamp  save that much money?    Would the customer object that much taking it out of the bag and having to put two screws into a brass plate?    The on the other hand   would   counting and baging   the item be just as expensive as  assembly? 

When I found out  that   Hillman clamps business was for sale .   The thought of owing  the business  crossed my mind.  ( It's a short trip to get from one side of my mind to the other)    Then the big brass   price hike hit and  I gave up on that thought


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## Pete Comley (Feb 28, 2008)

This is Pete Comley of Sunset Valley Railroad. 
Thank you Jerry for your posting showing our clamps. Yes, we make clamps for code 250 track and also converter clamps from 250/332, which are useful for those folks who buy Aristo track but prefer our switches. We sell direct or through dealers such as Caboose hobbies. We do brass clamps for brass and nickel silver track, and nickel plated brass for stainless steel and aluminum track. 
Hopefully these will substitute forsome of the lost Hillman clamps! 
[email protected]


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## etrains (Jan 16, 2008)

I bought 20 of the Aristo clamps with the verticle screws. On these the screw head holds the foot of the rail. They are solid brass. I used conductive grease at all contact points. I used them to hold two new wide radius switches for ease of removeal. So far they work great. At $7.95 for 10 they are not too expensive. The shiny screw heads can be painted black to be less conspicuous.


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## srs007 (Jan 4, 2009)

another brand of joiners

http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=g-...ksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=track+joiners&_osacat=0


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By barnmichael on 03/02/2008 1:09 PM
Opinions on using. Necessary? Only good for problem areas? Wouldn't lay track without them? Waste of time? Are they worth the expense?

Which is better, Hillman or Split-Jaw? Hillman is cheaper. What about quality? Is there enough difference between them to care? Is there enough difference between them to worry about mixing them on a layout?

Richard and Carol Hillman want to retire and are trying to sell the business. Concerns about viability of the product in the future?
Have there been any failure or warranty issues? Can the tiny screws be readily obtained? They are easy to drop and lose if you accidentaly take one all the way out.

All my track is well used. Some Aristo, some LGB. Some have stock slip joiners, some pretty badly bent up. Some have rail clamps, brand unknown. Would it be better to get some that fit over the joiners, or to take the effort to remove old slip joiners and go with standard rail clamps?

Thanks for your comments.

Michael


Have used them since 1994. Would not use anything else. Richard and Carol have sold the business and retired as far as I know...unless something fell through. New owners still
using same name I guess. As far as better, for me the Hillman's are easier to get on the track and tighten down. I removed the manufacturer's joiners and went straght HRC. Never
looked back. Will be ordering a new batch for my expansion this spring.

I've used them over and over. Had to replace some screws, but that's about it. When I reuse we usually use a Dremel wire brush to clean them. Other than that, they last and
last.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Silvergate took it over, bought the company. No more nickle plated stuff off the shelf. 

Regards, Greg


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