# New from RCS. The Deltang based TX20-LS for Live Steam locos.



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is the first pic of the TX20-LS 5 ch DSM2 TX for Live Steam locos.










Use with any DSM2 compatible receiver. 
I am working on the website to get all the details up but basically:
1. The small knob is for setting the valve gear. It is infinitely variable. 
2. The big knob controls the steam regulator.
3. The top R/H button gives a momentary full servo throw.
4. Buttons # 1 & # 2 give half servo throw on two channels. Can be used with sound systems to trigger effects.
5. Range should be at least 100'. Maybe more.
6. Add an RCS # 2-M-F parallel to the valve gear servo to control headlights.

The TX20-LS can also operate RCS ESC's and any centre off ESC's.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Hi Tony, 
Great looking idea. Something like this might be easier to juggle than a conventional TX. My only suggestion might be the addition of two more infinitely variable knobs to use for blower and burner. I think a lot of the young up and coming tech savvy railroaders will be RC'ing their live steam to get their pikes on the ground. I know that's what I am doing. You still get the fun of controlling all those things right in the cab but you don't have to constantly be chasing and adjusting just to keep it running around your elevated circle, let alone switching a functional railroad on the ground. Good luck with this.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks great Tony! I presently run both steam and battery with a Spectrum Dx6 transmitter and receivers. I'm not sure if those are DSM2. Can you tell me if the TX20-LS would work with what I am using? I would love to get rid of my big transmitter.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you for the compliments gentlemen.

Randy.
The TX20-LS covers the basic requirements for controlling Live Steam locos. 
Unfortunately, the space in the case is limited and adding more trim pots is not possible. However, it may be possible to replace[/b] the two pushbuttons with variable pots. I will look into it.

Winn.
I am not sure, but I think the early DX6 R/C's are not DSM2. The DX6i is DSM2. In fact, pretty well all the Spektrum R/C's are DSM2. There are also a number of DSM2 compatible TX's & RX's available aftermarket. Be careful to avoid the fake Spektrum RX's that are still around.


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## DGM (Feb 8, 2008)

Tony,

Does the new TX20-LS need to be bound (binded?) each time you change the loco you are running? E.g., I want to run Loco #1 and bind that loco's servo parameters to the TX20-LS, then I want to run Loco #2 and need to re-bind that loco, then I go back to Loco #1 and have to re-bind again? I'm assuming the TX20-LS does not have the memory function that the Spectrum DX-6i has, correct?

How difficult is it to bind/re-bind and adjust the TX20-LS for servo travel (particularly the small valve gear/direction knob)? On slide valve locos (i.e., Roundhouse and Accucraft Countess) one would want the valve gear knob to be fully forward or fully reverse; for piston valve reversers (most Accucraft), a degree of adjustment might be preferable to allow control of speed using both the steam regulator and the reverser.

Thanks,

-Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg. 
The only time you will need to rebind is if the loco is swapped between different TX's. 
You can bind as many locos as you like to the TX20-LS just like you can with any DSM2 system. 
No need to bind a loco each time you want to use it. You simply turn off one loco and turn on the next one. 

The TX20-LS is not as sophisticated as a DX61 for example. I understand that having a memory to remember servo settings would be desirable. However, the trade off for having a small hand piece is that there is simply not enough room in the hand piece to fit the necessary hardware. Let alone the expense. I believe having the valve gear servo controlled by a knob is a reasonable compromise and is certainly better than having a simple direction change switch. 

In the meantime I had better start looking for a low cost servo reverser that will also set a servo travel limit. The first part is easy. Can anyone help me with the second part please?


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tony,

I've been using programmable digital servos in my locos. I bought a programming module which lets me preset the direction the servos will turn and how far they will turn. This allows me to bond all of my locos to the same DX6i transmitter without having to always switch among stored programs on the transmitter. That sort of presetting should be a good match to your system. I find the compactness and simplicity of your transmitter very appealing and look forward to buying one.

Llyn


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Llyn. 
Right after I posted the above I contacted David Theunissen from Deltang who mentioned he has been working on a smallish, lowish cost in line device that will set the default direction and extremities for one servo. So the problem will be solved very soon. 
Now I guess it will be a trade off in cost for Digital servos, versus the space required for the proposed Deltang device.


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## lkydvl (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm just fresh into RC in a live steamer so pardon my ignorance. 

Is there a control for the gas valve/burner? 

Thanks, 

Andre`


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I am not familiar with all live steam locos and please correct me if I am wrong. Whilst some locos will have a facility for controlling the gas valve/burner with R/C, but, as I understand it the vast majority do not have such a facility. They are usually controlled manually. 
So sorry, but no, for now there is no way of controlling the gas valve/burner from the TX20-LS. Once again the problem is space inside the case and on the label for the extra hardware involved.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

With the live steam segment, what functions are controlled are very much subject to the owners desire. For simple butane fired locos, you could just get away with controlling the Johnson bar and throttle. But for more advanced alcohol locos You would have to also have the blower on a infinitely variable control. For my self even on a simple butane fired loco, I like having control over the burner too. Other things to control would include feed water pump/bypass, drain cocks and whistle. Unfortunately (or happily in my case) live steam controls can be involved and numerous, since you may need to control so many valves and mechanical linkages to make it run like the real thing. How many "bells and whistles" you need depends on your taste and locomotive choice.

Tony is off to a great start with this controller which is good for 5 R/C'd items. It definitely seems to be a bit more friendly than a conventional TX that needs to be held with both hands to use. Also Tony's TX20 would be much less prone to "accidental adjustment" or bumping those joysticks on a traditional TX out of the position you had them in.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony, 
Would this TX be a good substitute for controlling servo's on other than LS locos? Say like a servo powered crane, or MOW car that has servos to operate different functions? 
Craig


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## lkydvl (Jan 2, 2008)

could not the valve control be used for the burner control? The top two buttons could be used to throw the bar one direction or the other by limiting the servo throw for each to the one direction and travel to move the bar?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Craig. 
Yes this would be ideal for what you want to do. 
There are two independent fully proportional servo movement controls via the two knobs. 
Plus one momentary action full movement servo with the bind button and two momentary half servo movement via the other two push buttons. 

lykdvl. 
Sorry but I am not sure what you mean. I have never seen a loco equipped with a burner control. 
The top two buttons are the ON-OFF switch and the Bind/Ch# 5 button. 
The other two buttons give momentary half servo controls.


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## lkydvl (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.co...ckhead.jpg


There is a shot of an Accucraft Ruby with both the burner/gas valve and steam valve controls visible.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

OK. Thanks. 
I guess what I should have said was I have never seen a burner valve controlled by R/C. 
I can see the desirability to have the gas jet variable on a layout with grades where extra steam at will could be handy. 
With all the live steamers I have seen the operators leave them manually controlled because most layouts for Live Steam I have seen in Australia are flat, meaning once set they rarely need adjusting.. 
Thank you for raising the question. 
It would really need another Digital Proportional control capability, a total of three, to do that and the TX20-LS has only two. 
It may be possible to change the TX design to accommodate three. Probably at the cost of the two half servo movement functions. 
I will look into the possibility and keep you all informed.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I double checked with Michael and Gordon at Argyle as to how many Live Steamers in Australia have actually fixed a gas burner control. The answer was one. Their suggestion was that operating drain cocks or a blower control would be much more likely to appeal. 
So, it will be possible to have at least three Digital Proportional knobs on the case instead of the two accessory function buttons. One big knob for the steam regulator and two smaller knobs for the valve gear, plus gas regulator, or blower control, or drain cocks. 
I should be able to fit another small knob. Meaning, with the Ch # 5 whistle, control the TX20-LS will in effect be a simplified DX4e or DX5e. 

Thank you for your input. Stay tuned. I should have a working sample by the end of next week.


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## lkydvl (Jan 2, 2008)

Excellent! Thanks Tony


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

as I understand it the vast majority do not have such a facility. They are usually controlled manually 
Tony, Andre, 
Most butane-fired locomotives have a gas valve with a knob, and we have been known to occasionally adjust it for changing track conditions. I can't speak for the alky crowd. 

However, I have never seen anyone bother to add a servo to it (though Kevin talked about it once!) Usually we set the gas and forget it. 

My only suggestion might be the addition of two more infinitely variable knobs to use for blower and burner. 
Randy, 
At some point, you are going to want the big DX6i TX with all the knobs, bells and whistles. This is a little guy for those of us with only two servos.


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tony,

I assume that you want to sell only one version of the TX20-LS. For one of my locos, I'd like to have one with toggle switches rather than push buttons so as to control the lights. For another loco, I'd like to have one with push buttons to control bell and whistle sounds on a Phoenix sound card. I could foresee needing two small knobs to control accessories on other models. The Spektrum DX6i gives quite a lot of latitude to do all these; but, I really want to try using your very compact, simple transmitter. If only one choice will be available, I'd prefer to have two knobs rather than two buttons for the accessory channels. I look forward to seeing what you settle on and I'm eager to give it a try.

Llyn


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 06 Nov 2013 08:04 AM 
Randy, 
At some point, you are going to want the big DX6i TX with all the knobs, bells and whistles. This is a little guy for those of us with only two servos. 
Hey Pete, you are absolutely right. That's why I already own one.







But I would interested in a unit like Tony's if it was able to cover all of the functioned of the Dx6i. I wouldn't even mind if it were much larger. Granted I haven't even used the DX6i but once or twice with a crude RC set up on my ruby, but I fear the Joy sticks would be easily "bumped" out of the setting I had them in during running, where tony knobs would not. 

Also, I am one of those weirdos that wants the burner on a servo. You can see the start of what I'm up to here: Ruby Bash I was actually planning on doing some more work on her tonight. Final touches on our house and having a Kid have slowed me down some, but I seem to be finding more time these days. Updates to come to the thread soon.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the input gentlemen.

Pete, Llyn and Randy.
I understand the need to keep the system simple for the majority of Live Steamers hence my introduction of the TX20-LS.

I was originally hoping to have just one TX20 to do everything. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how you look at it) that is simply not possible. Battery R/C requirements are quite a bit different than Live Steam requirements.
It has only been as I discover the capabilities of the Deltang RF equipment that I realise it will be possible to satisfy most users, at the cost of making an extra variant. Mike Ragg and Gordon Watson of Argyle have suggested I make two TX hand pieces. The current TX20-LS and an all servo one. There would still be a whistle control of course.
It is no big deal for me to make a third variant with all servo outputs instead of push buttons. In effect it is a DX4e or DX5e 5 channel TX in a small case but without any servo reversing or trimming hardware. It is certainly not a DX6i or the Orange clone, as it has not got any model memories. However, I think it may be possible to reprogram a DSM2 RX that can then be user programmed for servo reversing and servo throw limitation in the loco itself.
I design and make the labels and install the pre built CE approved TX RF module.
I guess the only problem is the confusion that can be created by a Live Steamer being offered multiple choices. 
In the meantime I put together a mock up of what the all servo output hand piece would be like.










The ON - OFF switch and bind button have not been installed.
To me it is a bit crowded with knobs, but useable.
What say you all?

Llyn. Regarding the loco lights. To replace the push buttons with switches on the TX would not be possible. Would it be your intention to manually control which were on from the hand piece? If you would be happy to have them come on and change automatically with direction it is easy to do. I have a small inexpensive decoder pcb that is wired in parallel to the valve gear servo with a standard servo Y cable that does just that. The only downside I can see is the lights would be off when the valve gear is in neutral.


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tony,

I think that your latest proposal would work well for me. I have one loco on which the front and rear lights are controlled by circuits which plug into the receiver. I use the channels which are controlled by the toggle switches on the Spektrum transmitter. Turning the Aux 1 and Aux 2 knobs to control the lights will be quite straight forward and I would be happy with that. I really do crave the small size and simplicity of your transmitter. Because I have gone over to digital servos which I can program for direction of rotation and amount of angular throw, your offering becomes very practical. I look forward to seeing what your final offering will be.

Llyn


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

To me it is a bit crowded with knobs, but useable 
Knobs are good for trains. Sticks are good for aircraft. [Cars use steering wheels and triggers!]


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Pete. 
You are quite right about knobs being good for trains. Sticks for aircraft etc. A slide pot for speed would be good but the cost of the case hardware to suit would be prohibitive. 

My concern is that the small knobs are a bit close together for big fingers to access easily. However I can imagine that once the settings on the two small knobs in the middle are made you would not need to be continually varying them. Positioning the valve gear knob at the top makes it a bit more accessible. The big knob for the regulator will be clear enough for one handed operation if necessary. 
I will probably omit the red ring around the big knob in the final label artwork but leave the rings around the small knobs as they are centre off in function. 

It will probably be called TX-5s. Meaning it has five servo functions. Price would be a little more expensive than the other TX20's and that is because of the extra pots and knobs. 

Thank you all for your contributions. I will keep you posted as to progress.


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