# St. Aubins is closing



## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#

Aristo-Craft Trains
St. Aubins just announced that they will be shutting their doors.


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## digger (Jan 2, 2008)

Another giant is falling. Not totally surprising, given skyrocketing prices for "the basics", a tight economy, slow growth in our numbers, and most of us having reached the "saturation" point with too much stuff. We packrats are unintentionally doing ourselves in.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The problems at St. Aubins were different. The person who put the whole business together is gone, and the people running the company afterwards could not make it work. You could see the changes in their stocking, and prices right away. 

Buying in smaller quantities means no more huge discounts from the manufacturers. When you are the low price leader, you have very little room to play with margins... kick the prices up, and the famed poor customer service now makes it not worth buying from them. 

There's a lot more, but no reason embarrassing anyone in public. 

Greg


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Nothing on the St. Aubins web-site about it. 

Ralph


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Someone on the Aristo site had mentioned something about a vender there at York that is going out of business so I would guess that may be them.. Maybe some hot deals at the show this weekend. Later RJD


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes sad but true St. Aubins has a sign up at the show.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

It seems that this is part of a larger economic trend. In Illinois, some G gauge train stores have just vanished. The Midwestern economy continues to shrink, year after year, and one by one the G gauge trains stores disappear. Cross off Schaumburg, Park Ridge, Chicago, Berwyn, Elgin, St. Charles, Lombard, Downers Grove,…

I have always chosen to shop in person at a real, live train shop. I like the fact that St. Aubins store is such a place, and a pretty impressive one. But that world seem to be sailing away. Meanwhile, a press corps from 1000 miles away contentedly dithers about their local political rhetoric. Seems like networks won’t even acknowledge a continental winter storm until it hits Washington.

Today, more mail order/internet train stores are starting to go away, too. We seem to be sliding backwards in time, to an age when hobbyists had to make their trains out of wood and card stock. I don’t like the way things are going.


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## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm not looking to start a fight, but I think it's funny how we always blame the "supply side" of the equation - internet sales, poor customer service, bad economy, poor management, high prices...etc., but we seldom ask the question, "Is it also, or completely because we haven't done a very good job of promoting our hobby to the next generation and rather than getting out there an passing on the excitement and satisfaction of g-scale, we just log on here and complain about the prices, service, big internet stores...

It's funny, the hobby seems to be alive and well here in Europe. Shows are packed, clubs are growing, people are running trains, companies are producing new products, and all of this with higher prices. Perhaps we are missing something more close to home and simply blaming others for the trend in our hobby when we should be looking at ourselves as spokespersons for the hobby in the US.

Just a thought.

Johannes


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

St Aubin used to be the price leader and I got quite a few great deals with SEVERAL years ago. The service was always under par. The last time I ordered from them in 2005, I bought a USAT S4 when they first came out and ordered Phoenix sound installed. They charged me for it and never shipped it. I never got it and never got my money back. Maybe now they will have some blowout pricing! It's too bad we lose another giant retailer but hey, in their case I say don't let the door hit them in the back! 

It's time WE ALL start shopping exclusively at RLD HOBBIES! GO ROBBY!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Koploper on 23 Mar 2012 10:46 AM 
I'm not looking to start a fight, but I think it's funny how we always blame the "supply side" of the equation - internet sales, poor customer service, bad economy, poor management, high prices...etc., but we seldom ask the question, "Is it also, or completely because we haven't done a very good job of promoting our hobby to the next generation and rather than getting out there an passing on the excitement and satisfaction of g-scale, we just log on here and complain about the prices, service, big internet stores...

It's funny, the hobby seems to be alive and well here in Europe. Shows are packed, clubs are growing, people are running trains, companies are producing new products, and all of this with higher prices. Perhaps we are missing something more close to home and simply blaming others for the trend in our hobby when we should be looking at ourselves as spokespersons for the hobby in the US.

Just a thought.

Johannes


Glad to hear things are going well in Europe, at last years Southwest Garden Railroad Show, it was a completely different impression, attendence was very low, and sales were accordingly low, and the show was a bust, its really sad but the days of the all large scale show out here are gone, at least for the time being. Between video games, RC, other scale trains, etc,...Too many other distractions for peoples hard earned hobby dollar, especially given LS can have a fairly steep entry fee.


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

" ...Southwest Garden Railroad Show, it was a completely different impression, attendence was very low, and sales were accordingly low,..." 

It looks like they have fixed that this year: no SWGRS. Or at least, there doesn't seem to be any 2012 activity on any web site.


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Different dealers excelled at different things. There were some areas that St. Aubins did better than anyone else. Granted that when Pat died and John retired it was not the same but in the current market conditions all dealers and manufacturers are probably under a lot of pressure trying to keep their doors open. No dealer can represent all manufacturers equally to everyone. There are many things that I have purchased from St. Aubins that were unavailable from any other source just as other dealers have had things unavailable to St. Aubins.

I too support RLD and Wholesale just as they both support MLS but *I disagree with posting negative comments about any dealer and/or any manufacturer.*

There is a LONG list of major dealers and manufacturers who have gone out of business in the model trains hobby for many different reasons. Every one we lose hurts us all in one way or another.

Just my opinion,

Jerry


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Greetings, 

As to Saint Aubins closing, I think that it is like most hobby shops in that when the person that started it passes on or has to retire for what ever reason and if it is not sold to some one that both understands the hobby and has a love of and for the hobby then the shop is doomed. 

As someone that works in a retail hobby shop,one of the things that I have noticed about the decline is that the vast majority of modelers in large scale are in their golden years. Most of their layouts are complete and unless something new comes along that really floats their boat their are not many sales. When I first started there was about twice the wall space devoted to large scale than we have now, and the reason is that it is just not selling. I also think that the high cost of track is a major problem with large scale and I don't see any thing to improve that in the future. 

In fact the most popular thing that I have had in large scale right now has been the Thomas the Tank Engine from Bachmann, and most of my regular customers look at it and say "Why did Bachmann come out with that [email protected]*p". At the last major train show the powers that be took all of the Thomas equipment and boxed it up because "Only kids want to see it" Well the "Kids" is where the next generation of large scaler's are going to come from. Another part of the problem is that the houses people are buying today have much smaller yards or they belong to a condominium association and must get permission from the home owners association to install a outdoor layout and that permission may not be forth coming.


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

I never liked St Aubins. It always seamed to me that when I delt with the poeple there it seamed like there was something shady going on. At train shows I never really bought anything from them because everytime I found something I wanted it was "marked wrong" and they always wanted more. Usually I just put it back and did without. I would go the Big Train Show in Calif and they were always there selling. I have herd that they would scope out all the other dealers and reprice all their stuff lower than anyone elses and that if they had 7 of an item and there were only like 2 of the same items with other dealers they would buy them up and then reprice everything way high. Business is business but most of us can't afford much and it means that more and more of us will turn to another hobby or at least another scale. Still they did have their place and with them gone it only leaves RDL Hobbies and Whole Sale Trains. Hopefully someone out there will run the numbers and find a way to take their place or we will all be ordering direct from the manufactures. Till then I hope they have some fantastic going out of business sales but because it's St Aubins I'm not holding my breath.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And I disagree with only posting positive comments and hiding the truth.[/b] 

The reality in the world is there are good things and bad things. Looking at the world with rose-colored glasses only fools the wearer of the glasses, it does not fix anything, nor alter reality.


Greg


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with Greg: Caveat Emptor. 

In the past 35 years or so I've been active in the hobby, I've seen an awful lot of Hobby Shops come and go, the Denver area used to be covered by them. Now there's a handful. Most of them went away not because of the economy, indeed, many closed during the booms of the 80's and 90's, but because of competition. First from the larger shops in the area, and then the on-line presence. 

The vast majority of our hobby items, from track to locomotives are made of plastic. Plastic is made of oil. Oil prices are through the roof. Not much we can do about the prices. OTOH, when I was a kid, an HO Athearn locomotive cost $15 to $20. Now, it seems, only Bachmann and Model Power are holding the line on HO prices, how is a teenager supposed to afford a $150 - $200 HO locomotive, let alone a $600 or $700 LS loco? 

I bought three AMS switches last week at Caboose Hobbies, during their St Patrick's day sale - for less than they're going for on the web. They still carry Large Scale, and from what I've seen, the inventory changes every time I stop by. I've bought both of my K's from there, and a lot of rolling stock and track. 

As I mentioned to her, the shipping charges are offset by Denver's outrageious sales tax rates, but if you're interested in buying, check their prices. 

Robert


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Mr. Murphy--I too have seen hobby shops come and go. But, lately, I see them go --- not come. I can't blame one store for all that.


cheers
TUL


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 23 Mar 2012 03:40 PM 
how is a teenager supposed to afford a $150 - $200 HO locomotive, let alone a $600 or $700 LS loco? 


Robert 
Well the teenagers that I know get $200-300 brand video gaming systems (what every 1-2 years a new system comes out?) all the time for birthdays, Christmas, etc. If they wanted it I'm sure they would find a way to buy it...


Craig


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Quarterly Purchases!! 
Maybe some of the MLS Supporting Dealers pitch in and....... if we all get the order organized and bulk order RRstuff ...we give them a boost and ......because of the large order.....a price break!! 

I leave it up to you Guys to consider this a ...Brainstorm. 

Manfred


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Posted By Jerrys-RR on 23 Mar 2012 12:38 PM 
*I disagree with posting negative comments about any dealer and/or any manufacturer.*

Just my opinion,

Jerry


There is nothing wrong with posting facts (good or bad) about products or services from specific dealers and or manufacturers. My comment was in reference to unsubstantiated or generic negative comments that reflect an attitude rather than a logical conclusion about a specific product or situation that is accompanied (in the post) with whatever situation resulted in the negative comments. Comments without facts are nothing more or less than opinions and rumors.

There are products and brands I avoid but that others are very happy with. There are other products and brands I may like but others may not. That's life.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this happens to be mine. I'm not a moderator so my opinions are worth no more or less than those of any other member.

This topic is about St. Aubin's and I have had some very good experiences and some very bad ones with them. In the end we always were able to work things out where they kept me as a customer. It would be unfair to St. Aubin's for those of us who had satisfactory dealings with them not to speak up for them just as I would for RLD, Wholesale etc. If others had bad experiences with them and wish to say specifically what they were, that is their right and I would not have the slightest objection to it.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I read basically EVERY post on the major forums, and by far the consensus about St. Aubins is what Nate said... the service was below par.

Reading your further explanation, I can agree with people making unsubstantiated claims or comments. 


Nevertheless, I'm not going to feel obligated to give the entire blow by blow history of me buying an AML K4 from them to substantiate my opinion. 


I managed to "succeed" on the transactions I made, but they could be outright rude, and getting things "fixed" could be very difficult. 

I don't expect Mercedes service from a Yugo dealer. Having the lowest prices means buying low, and having low overhead, which works on the building and the employees. 

It is what it is. I had no higher expectations of their service, but for example, classifying their service as "great" would be doing a disservice to people who never dealt with them. 

Regards, Greg


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Living in NE Wisconsin, about 200 miles N of St Aubins, has been a pleasant 3 year G Gauge buying experience. I have bought from them at TrainFest show (MKE), on
line, and by phone. In 30 purchases.... 28 phone buys were FAST & 1 day UPS delivery & Good verified prices. Only two on line buys were back ordered... a slight unexpected hic up...... and therefore I did no more St Aubin on line ordering...... In summary.... My 332 SS Track, ties, & rolling Stock St Aubin purchases were above expectations. St Aubins will be missed as a GOOD/Fair Dealer by me.. Dennis M from GBay, WI... PS: Will their Woodstock Tree Nursery still survive?? Might St Aubins "remains" appear at the mid August NLSC 2012 in St Charles... IL....???


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Wasn't ST Aubins a Nursery before they got in the train stuff?

JJ 

Speaking of Nurserys......What every Happened to Amblings Flower Land.....They use to sponsor the Thanksgiving day Parade on TV when I was a kid.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my bad sales experience at ST Aubin's. It is fact and I didn't mean anything by it except it being my reason for my opinions and decision to shop elsewhere. . That being said, I did at one time get some really good deals from St Aubins despite the service. Either way, things did noticeably change after the new ownership took over. I almost exclusively shop at RLD now anyway and occasionally Trainworld when their closeouts have something of interest to me. Does anyone think the MAP pricing thing has negatively affected sales? I would think at this point in the economy any manufacturer who still implements MAP pricing should do away with it and just let the dealers sell their stock for whatever they can get for it. It could help sales a bit, maybe regenerate healthy competition.It seems to me anything to stimulate sales would be a good thing right now and MAP pricing seems like it would just be hamstringing the dealers even more.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Here they go again,,,,,, I just simply feel bad for them. I know a number of the guys personally. 
Just sad news.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Truthman on 23 Mar 2012 10:52 AM 
St Aubin used to be the price leader and I got quite a few great deals with SEVERAL years ago. The service was always under par. The last time I ordered from them in 2005, I bought a USAT S4 when they first came out and ordered Phoenix sound installed. They charged me for it and never shipped it. I never got it and never got my money back. Maybe now they will have some blowout pricing! It's too bad we lose another giant retailer but hey, in their case I say don't let the door hit them in the back! 

It's time WE ALL start shopping exclusively at RLD HOBBIES! GO ROBBY! 



Nate,

That's a very bad experience you had with St. Aubin's. But is there more to the story? Seven years and never received a $400 locomotive and then have Phoenix sound added and charged? Did you not do any follow-up or try to get the situation resolved? Money is not that easy to come by for me. I do believe I would have been all over their case in a very short time to get my locomotive OR my money!

As long as we're talking about dealers going away because of poor customer service and a "don't give a crap" attitude, I want to give praises to a dealer with just exactly the OPPOSITE attitude! Last Wednesday afternoon, I was estimating how many boxes of AMS Narrow Gauge ties I would need to complete the last section of my layout. I called Mark Johnson at Silver State Trains, in Henderson, Nevada. We had a good half hour discussion about customer service and the trust that most dealers have with customers and vice versa. For those of you who are not aware, Mark was connected with St. Aubin's in Las Vegas.

He said he had plenty in stock and would send out that day. Two days later, today, they arrived at my front porch this afternoon! He didn't even quote a price or cost of shipping on Wednesday. He said he would give me a great deal and said he ALWAYS takes care of his customers. I checked my bank this afternoon and saw what Mark had charged on my card. The price per box was the lowest I had ever seen! AND the shipping was next to nothing LITERALLY!

I had met this man ONLY once at last November's SWGRS show at Fairplex. I had just dropped by his booth and was inquiring about the availabilty of the AMS ties. He said they were hard to find, but he would make a phone call right then to find a source. He found a source at that moment and I ordered a box (to see if I wanted to use them on my railroad). It wasn't a big deal sale and not a lot of money. He had his source ship them right at that moment (Saturday afternoon). I didn't have to give him my card number.....just my mailing address! I received the box of ties the following Tuesday afternoon in Burbank. That night he called and I gave him my card number. Done!

I will remain loyal to Mark and Silver State. THIS is what the hobby should be all about.


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## Rail Planet (Jan 22, 2012)

Wow! I had never even heard about Silver State Trains... I'll definitely keep them in mind now.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Rail Planet on 23 Mar 2012 07:58 PM 
Wow! I had never even heard about Silver State Trains... I'll definitely keep them in mind now. I don't know how you could miss him!

He is a member of this forum AND sponsors the Beginner's Forum on this site!


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## Rail Planet (Jan 22, 2012)

Oops... I have an ad-blocking extension in my browser so I didn't see his logo...


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Posted By NTCGRR on 23 Mar 2012 06:57 PM 
Here they go again,,,,,, I just simply feel bad for them. I know a number of the guys personally. 
Just sad news. 
That's pretty much how I feel. The truth is that I have probably not bought anything other than at the HAGRS & NGRC since John retired and not much since Pat died. Pat was the wheeler dealer and I enjoyed jousting with him but I counted my fingers when our transactions were done. 

To me St. Aubin's was Pat and John and Matt - and they always managed to meet my expectations.

Others I know also report problems so I can appreciate it if others had unsatisfactory experiences. We always see things through our own perspectives.

We are not only losing companies but also key people who had a LOT to do with building our hobby. 

Before St. Aubin's closed we lost Ridge Road Station

Before Ridge Road Station closed we lost San-Val

Before San-Val closed the local dealers dropped all Large Scale products around here.

Then there was the LGB bankruptcy (and LGBoA, Marklin, Kalamazoo, Delton etc.)

The mail order dealers sold in house as well as on line. Who is going to show large scale trains to walk in customers to replace their in house sales?

Us older guys are probably fixed up for life but someone needs to be buying new stuff or there won't be much of a future to this hobby. Everyone I know around here that is into large scale is either retired or close to it. I am selling stuff because I bought it to attract my grandkids to the hobby but they have outgrown any interest they had for toy trains.

Good, bad or indifferent I will miss St. Aubin's and the folks there.

Jerry


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have ad blocking software on my computer, but I have excluded MLS from the blocking as I need to refer to the wonderful sponsors on occasion and I need a quick reference.

Many years ago I had an order with St Aubins. I have referred to it a couple of times without mentioning names. I think that this was before they opened the Las Vegas store. I called and ask about two cars, one was in stock and the other wasn't. I ordered the car in stock and paid for it with a credit card. The car arrived and I was a happy camper. Six months later an LGB Santa Fe caboose arrived ( the car I had ask about, but hadn't ordered). I was a little frosted that they had back ordered something that I hadn't ordered, I let it ride as I wanted the car and hadn't purchased it in the meantime. The ordering based on a question bothered me, but what really frosted me was that one of the truck posts was sheared off. Calling to ask about the replacement, they said to"contact LGB". I have rarely had problems with damaged equipment in the past, but when it happened the dealer was very helpful. I was able to repair the post with some glue and a longer screw, but that shouldn't have been necessary. For all of you collectors out there please disregard the last sentence.


Needless to say that was my last contact with St. Aubins. 

Chuck


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Posted By chuck n on 23 Mar 2012 09:27 PM 
Needless to say that was my last contact with St. Aubins. 

Chuck 



Posted By Jerrys-RR on 23 Mar 2012 05:10 PM 
This topic is about St. Aubin's and *I have had some very good experiences and some very bad ones with them.* In the end we always were able to work things out where they kept me as a customer. 
Jerry 


Hi Chuck,

Perhaps my worst experience with St. Aubin's was when I bought a new MTH Challenger from Pat at the NGRC in Chicago. Pat and I dickered at the show and it got down to just how much would I pay for a MTH Challenger? I threw out $800 (including tax and no shipping charges) and we agreed. I went to Woodstock and picked up the Challenger without opening the box (big mistake - I should have known better).

When I got home I found the "free" DCS remote was missing and when I took the tender out of the box this is what I found:













I did not even bother phoning Pat. Our deal was for an $800 MTH Challenger. Pat did not say the remote would be in the box and he did not say what the condition of the Challenger would be other than it was new. Perhaps he knew what I was getting (I suspect he did) and perhaps not.

When I was dealing with St. Aubin's or San-Val or Trainworld I was always shopping for the very lowest (closeout) pricing and because of that I my expectations were a lot lower.

Caveat Emptor? Yep! I agree that fit St. Aubin's but they frequently did have the very lowest prices.

I'm not defending them in the least. They were what they were but I think they lost who they were when Pat died. RIP Pat. RIP St. Aubin's.

There have been many problems with many products of all brands from all dealers. At an NGRC I bought a new NW-2 only later to discover the coupler mount (part of the frame) was broken and had been glued back on. The well known dealer said he had not done it and if true that would leave USA having shipped it that way. I bought USA F3's with paint chipping off the nose of one but the dealer had been unable to get USA to replace it. MTH blamed the dealer for the above corrosion but finally agreed to fix it.

I can't think of a dealer or brand that I have never had any problems with but I believe they all try to keep us happy. The cheaper we force their prices the fewer will survive. C'est la vie. 

Jerry


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Reading this thread reminded me to take a look at the poll I started regarding good and bad experiences with the various brands of G gauge trains. 

The poll shows that for the big manufacturers, even LGB, have more bad experiences than good for the most part. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx 

So there are times the dealers hands are tied by the manufacturers that won't help them help you.

Let's face it, a dealer selling a $1200.00 steam engine most likely is doing good to make 15% profit.

So if an steam engine has a major defect such as the wheels on the Aristo Craft locomotives have had, it wouldn't take refunding a half dozen customers because the manufacturer wouldn't help to cause the dealer to end up with no capital to operate with.


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## wolfganghildebrand (Mar 24, 2008)

Tried them once. Lost $ 450.-. 

Ordered 4 AMS boxcars and 4 gons at their IL nursery Oct. 2003. 
They sent the 4 gons from their Las Vegas store (Dec. 2003). 
The 4 boxcars never arrived. Sent some 15 e-mails within 6 months. The most positive (!) answer (Feb 2004): 
"It is possible that the cars were not being shipped because of the confusion with the order being split between our two stores." 
That was it. No refund, not even a proof of shipping or a copy of the custom's declaration. (International oorder to Germany 
I had a friend inquire things: Apparently their barn was one big mess, the bookkeeping anyway. No chance. 
After six month I closed the case in desperation. 

I had top service from all the other stores that got my business then.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Randy, 

I never saw the poll when it was published, but no offence, that poll is "fun" but it's meaningless. 

Meaningless for a couple of reasons: 

For one, I would expect the sample size for many of the possible responses to be too small, maybe for all of them. 
What was the actual sample size, it doesn't show anywhere I can see. 

2. For each manufacturer there are only two option for an answer, but as pointed out in the thread those don't cover the possible scenarios. 

3. Also, If I bought 10 Aristocraft items and 100 USA Trains items and had 5 problems with Aristocraft and 2 problems with USA Trains, my response to that poll would have been the same (if they were all fixed under warranty or all not fixed under warranty) but it's obvious to any one that the quality by each manufacturer is totally different. 
This is just a fictitious example, I'm not suggesting those are actual numbers. 
And if say of the two USA Trains problems 1 was fixed under warranty and one not, do I click on both boxes which would give USA Trains a really bad rating? 

4. It's also not clear what the Yes and no for each manufacturer refers to - having a problem yes/no or having a problem fixed under warranty yes/no 
And then, if the problem did get fixed under warranty but it took longer than some people expected, even the "fixed under warranty" would be answered different by two people with exactly the same scenario but different expectations. 

I have been in the Large Scale hobby for over 25 years now and have bought product from almost every manufacturer on the list and many that are not on the list, there is not a single manufacturer on that list that has shipped an inferior or defective product and each one also, at some point in time, failed to meet their warranty obligations. 
Some of the manufacturer consistently producted better products and provided better customer service, but that will not be reflected the way the poll was structured. 

Knut


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

No mention here of their web site, where you must click through many pages only to find no items listed, as I guess they are out of stock. Try clicking through Accucraft to find a live steam loco and you get nowhere. 

I never received an e-mail reply back to one that I sent St. Aubin's back in September 2011 after seeing their ads in Garden Railways Magazine (still there) for Accucraft War Department Baldwin 4-6-0 - Gauge '1', Matt Black in 1:19 scale and in live steam. I could not find this S19-1 loco in 45mm gauge at their web site. 

I have not bought on-line from St. A's for many years.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Posted By wolfganghildebrand on 24 Mar 2012 08:05 AM 
Tried them once. Lost $ 450.-. 

Ordered 4 AMS boxcars and 4 gons at their IL nursery Oct. 2003. 
They sent the 4 gons from their Las Vegas store (Dec. 2003). 
The 4 boxcars never arrived. Sent some 15 e-mails within 6 months. The most positive (!) answer (Feb 2004): 
"It is possible that the cars were not being shipped because of the confusion with the order being split between our two stores." 
That was it. No refund, not even a proof of shipping or a copy of the custom's declaration. (International oorder to Germany 
I had a friend inquire things: Apparently their barn was one big mess, the bookkeeping anyway. No chance. 
After six month I closed the case in desperation. 

I had top service from all the other stores that got my business then. 


I thought I was the only one..


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Too bad we've lost another dealer, does not bode well for the hobby. 
They filled the one small order I placed with them. But I always wondered about their tie-in with LSOL. 
One might a thunk that the buyer's club shoulda coulda sent them enough biz to stay afloat.... 
Nope doesn't bode well for the hobby. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That tie-in with LSOL was a joke.... I'm a member of LSOL, and besides being fabulously hard to find the special discount page, when you got there, there were only a few items on sale, and it was only a few bucks off the normal St. Aubins price. Funny, there was also a "Team LSOL" T shirt... as time passed, there were fewer and fewer specials until the only thing on special discount was the T shirt. 

You could see that the setup never worked... 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I was a member, but it seemed to be a buyers club and I was done buying.... 

John


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

I don't know how many manufacturer's are enforcing MAP pricing but with these closings of major retailers do you think it might be time to end the MAP policy? I think the remaining dealers should have every tool at their disposal to increase sales. I think whichever manufacturers are enforcing it should seriously reconsider it. The cost to dealer would be the same but the end user cost would be lower.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Rather startling news to me. 

I never ordered from St. Aubins, but Madam Mallet came from there and a couple of my freight cars. I'd make his picnic almost every year and would usually buy a freight car.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate unfortunately the mfrs were the biggest boosters of the MAP. I suspect that the loss of independent dealers selling at discount vs getting the most profit per unit even if that means only mail order direct from mfr at full MSRP. Money will always win, even if the dealers and the rest of us lose.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Looks like the website is down. Wonder if they are going to have a clearance sale?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Truthman on 25 Mar 2012 11:00 AM 
Looks like the website is down. Wonder if they are going to have a clearance sale? 
I doubt it.

Latest information I have is that Matt, the manager at St. Aubin, bought the remaining inventory and the name and will open a store under the "St. Aubin" name in a different location.
Cost of the 'St. Aubin' property was too high.

That is the status of right now - that could change.

Knut 


PS: What would make sense to me is that Matt sells off the slow runners be "inherited" to start the business on a solid footing.


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## adlereins (Jan 4, 2008)

Probably go to an on-line store only to eliminate the overhead.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

That happens with a lot of "sold" businesses. For instance, a hardware store where the owner sells the business but not the building. The new owner has to rent the building, an expense the original owner didn't have. The rent is in reality the "profit" and the second owner can't make it with the added expense the first owner never had. And either goes under, or moves somewhere cheaper. 

Robert


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By adlereins on 25 Mar 2012 03:03 PM 
Probably go to an on-line store only to eliminate the overhead. 
Actually - no.
Matt has already found a nw suitable "store front."


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

I purchased many times from St. Aubin's at the ECLSTS. Last September they Matt and Lyle helped my wife with some purchases. Matt Was kind enough to call me in regards to when I ordered 7 K4's rather than one which is all I wanted. They could have just sent seven of them to me but they took the time to call me to check the order. A few years back I ordered an item that came damaged. The boxes were fine and it was probably a manufacturing problem. I followed their instructions to get the box sent back at no cost to me and I had a replacement less than a week later.
I won't go into problems I have had with other resellers or what I had to do to resolve the issues. I have learned from experience that if you don't get something you paid for with a credit card then you put a claim in by phone then write a letter. You might not get your product but you will most likely get reimbursed.

LAO


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## tbar (Jan 26, 2009)

Posted By bnsfconductor on 23 Mar 2012 04:32 PM 
Posted By rdamurphy on 23 Mar 2012 03:40 PM 
how is a teenager supposed to afford a $150 - $200 HO locomotive, let alone a $600 or $700 LS loco? 


Robert 
Well the teenagers that I know get $200-300 brand video gaming systems (what every 1-2 years a new system comes out?) all the time for birthdays, Christmas, etc. If they wanted it I'm sure they would find a way to buy it...
 
 
Craig


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have recently been invited to some local "operating sessions" on an HO alyout and on an N scale alyout last Friday and the topic of discussion was "track prices" and on one of the local hobby shops (one I used to work at) that ahs become more of a Toy store adn has less and less hobby itmes in stock. Shelves that used to be 6 foot high are now 4 foot high. Show cases that were full and crammed 4 foot apart are now gone and aisles re-arranged to be 7 foot wide. What is on the shelf is only one or two deep now where they were crammed full before. The G-scale selection alone was sizable but not ever huge as with Ridge Road Station an hour drive away it did not make sense. I fear they too will be gone soon. I almost never stop there anymore on trips to Buffalo NY as there is so little in stock there I need. and ordering from them is a trial in patience. 

I know I ordered from St. Aubins in the past but have no re-collection of good or bad service. What I did not like has been discussed already was the join the club to get discounts thing but nothing I wanted was ever discounted. No thanks. I belonged to the old LGB Frequent Buyers Club back in the day and took advantage of that back then! 

Chas


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Let me set the record straight before this "runs a muck." 

Matt "has not" made an offer to purchase the remaining stock, business name, website or the property to continue on with the St. Aubin tradition; nor has he found a suitable place to lease and start his own business. Matt loves this hobby, Matt and his wife Lynn have very close family ties to the Chicago area and do not want to uproot their family and move to a new location. I'm sure whatever Matt decides to do after his employment with St. Aubins it will be closely tied to this hobby. I think sometimes, some of us like to be the first to "spill to beans," before an announcement has been made by that person or company. In this case, the comments made by "Knut" are not accurate. Please be mindful of your comments before the Sullivan family and all of their employees have had a chance to decide their next course in life. 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations, LLC 
RCS America


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Well stated Rick.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By izzy0855 on 26 Mar 2012 08:54 AM 
Let me set the record straight before this "runs a muck." 

Matt "has not" made an offer to purchase the remaining stock, business name, website or the property to continue on with the St. Aubin tradition; nor has he found a suitable place to lease and start his own business. Matt loves this hobby, Matt and his wife Lynn have very close family ties to the Chicago area and do not want to uproot their family and move to a new location. I'm sure whatever Matt decides to do after his employment with St. Aubins it will be closely tied to this hobby. I think sometimes, some of us like to be the first to "spill to beans," before an announcement has been made by that person or company. In this case, the comments made by "Knut" are not accurate. Please be mindful of your comments before the Sullivan family and all of their employees have had a chance to decide their next course in life. 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations, LLC 
RCS America 
The information I posted came directly from people at the show, but I appreciate being corrected when I'm wrong.
St. Aubin taking their trainshop web site off line also seemed to suggest that the existing inventory was no longer available for sale.

Knut


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Rick.... 

I'm sure we'll be well aware of what happens as the whole situation unwinds. 

Generally tain't as it first appears.









The best in the future for all involved. Changes like this are just some of the hard places in our lives. 

as a recent Thought for the Day stated.......... 

"We may encounter many defeats but we must not be defeated."
*
Maya Angelou*


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

The Official Statement from Jason at St Aubin's[/b]


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 27 Mar 2012 12:58 PM 
The Official Statement from Jason at St Aubin's[/b]


Thanks Stan,

Jerry


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 23 Mar 2012 06:57 PM 
Here they go again,,,,,, I just simply feel bad for them. I know a number of the guys personally. 
Just sad news. 



I feel for them as well. My experiences on the most part has been good. I also talked to Matt this morning via telephone. I think we should be 'watching' as something else may pop up. At least that is the impression I received from him today. 


Just remember guys, everyone has a bad day now and then. It's hard loosing a job (or business)....even harder to find a job. 


My thoughts and prayers are with those affected by the closing.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, the rumors that Matt wants to buy it are all over, from the first time I heard over a week ago. 

The thing that would be tough is to correct what made the company untenable. Yes the market is smaller, but dealers smaller than St. Aubins (meaning buy for the same price or MORE) are doing well. I believe that there are factors that need to be changed, and not just the ownership... I'd bet that the heavy discounts from Aristo and USAT have evaporated, and cut into the profit margins. 

St. Aubins made it's "name" on low prices as Jason stated... and raising the prices would lose their main clientele would be my guess. 

going to be tough for someone to make a go of it... 

Greg


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Greg, 

You are right, it is going to be a tough go. But I beg to differ from the view that "..dealers smaller than St. Aubins (meaning buy for the same price or MORE) are doing well." In Europe they are doing well with large scale, but not in Illinois, they aren't. After Monday there will be only a couple of such places left within a half day's drive, selling dwindling stocks of G scale at retail. Those are the signs of the times.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was referring to the larger internet sellers, not jsut brick and mortar dealers... sorry... Talked to RLD and the show went well for him, talked to a few other dealers and it went well for them. 

I'm comparing St. Aubins to their peers, other large dealers that do much of their business online or by phone, not brick and mortar. 

The smaller brick and mortar guys have been in trouble for a long time for other reasons in my opinion, the biggest problems they have is more overhead for lower total volume of sales... their cost of sales is higher, and the Internet sales so easy, how can they compete? They can do well with "impulse" items and supplies, like you need some more paint for the weekend... but the purchase of a large loco will be shopped. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Tom Leaton on 28 Mar 2012 11:19 AM 
Greg, 

You are right, it is going to be a tough go. But I beg to differ from the view that "..dealers smaller than St. Aubins (meaning buy for the same price or MORE) are doing well." In Europe they are doing well with large scale, but not in Illinois, they aren't. After Monday there will be only a couple of such places left within a half day's drive, selling dwindling stocks of G scale at retail. Those are the signs of the times. 


Makes one wonder why Large Scale sales in Europe are booming.
I don't think the economy there is so much better than in the US and prices are definitely higher.

European dealers I spoke to tell me last year was their best year ever in the last 10+ years and this year is also shaping up really well.

But then again, there don't seem to be any "Super Discount" dealers in Europe, partially because of the discount structure set by the manufacturers.
There isn't such a large gap between dealer cost and MSRP so the price flexibility they have is a lot less.

Knut


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## Elcamo (Dec 10, 2011)

Consoles (xbox, playstation, Nintendo Wii) tend to come out every 6+ years, and most kids typically get a game or two a year (at 60 bucks per game).


Even if money wasn't an issue, there just isn't a demand or interest in model trains or any other models anymore amongst teenagers. I know that personally, I would get so much crap if anyone found out I was into model trains. This is why I've lost interest in G, the trains are too big to hide inside, unlike N scale where I can make a nice 1x3 layout with everything I'd ever want or need.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Our layout sits in a very public spot, a pathway into park and shopping area. When I run the trains, people stop all day long. The response looks like this 

kids under 10 love it, especially little kids if Thomas is running 
kids between 10-12 like it but don't want to admit it. 
kids older than 12 can hardly even see it, it's so lame 
Young adults without kids can't really see it either. 
Parents with kids love it because it reminds them of their childhood and because their kids love it.

I'd say there's plenty of interest, but as everyone else mentions, the initial cost is a shock


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Most hobbies are pricey, if you want to do it, you will find a way to get started. I had an engine before I bought track, that was my stumbling point, but I made it work. After that, the price can be spread out. I started out with 130' of code 250 that I still use. Added to it years later. I think some plan to big of a layout to start with. Start small, then add as you can. Seems too many want everything at once. Kids want a house like their parents, forgetting they used to live in a smaller place that was not nearly as nice. A new car instead of a used one/etc....


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Got post card in mail today, everything must go including store fixtures and layouts, 30-90% off, will be out of town, not a happy camper. 
Tom h


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Just received this: 

Greetings, 

St. Aubin originally advertised a warehouse clearance sale for 3/31 and 4/1. 

We are completely sold out of ALL inventory as of 3/31. 

We will be closed to the public on Sunday 4/1. 

Thank you for making our Saturday sale an overwhelming success and thanks for your years of support. 

Jason Sullivan


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

* I am glad I drove up there on Friday. There where three guys buying truck loads. Including layouts. I ended up buying all remaining E-8's and several other items.It was sad to see the place then, I amd glad I didn't go yesterday.*


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## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

I went up there Saturday morning, going Friday would have been a better choice. I was there 30 minutes after opening and it was already picked over with a 2+ hour checkout line. I would have purchased a bunch of Kadee but it wasn't worth the wait. Sad to see it go, I usually stopped by there every 3-4 months to pick up a car or something. On to all internet ordering now. 

Kevin


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## kleinbahn (Sep 21, 2010)

Surprised they had inventory, the few things I bought from them were dropshipped from the mgr/distributor.


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## baxters4 (Mar 11, 2012)

well I guess I won't call today to see if they have any Aristo Mallet's left... 

Wonder if there will be a flood of stuff showing up on ebay or elsewhere.....


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder how the closing will effect GR magazine, they were one of their major advertisers. Something tells me its going to get thinner and not just from less advertising.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, if you have been following St. Aubins ads in GR, I believe you will see that they were shrunk to a single page, if I am not mistaken. RLD and Train-Li figured in much more prominent positions in the last issue. 

Of course GR needs all the advertisers it can get... that is the name of the game (although it would be interesting to see the split in income between ads and subscribers) 

Regards, Greg


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Don't count your chickens until their? http://www.staubintrains.com/ 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations, LLC 
RCS America


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By izzy0855 on 09 Apr 2012 05:45 PM 
Don't count your chickens until their? http://www.staubintrains.com/ 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations, LLC 
RCS America 


I know what he told me on the phone. Hope things work out for him.


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## Rail Planet (Jan 22, 2012)

Hmmm....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I hear the rumors that it might rise from the ashes, and Matt is interested.. ok ok... 

But with no inventory, and more importantly, not having the buying power to buy in large amounts and thus get killer discounts from the manufacturers, how could this succeed? 

It's going to be starting from scratch... 

I wish anyone luck starting a business, but it won't be easy... 

Greg


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