# Dcc advise



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

I'm looking into dcc and air wire and becoming very confused what to get. I have a dash o loco and an lgb steam and bachmann steam
And would like to run 2 on the same track and a board that supports both sound and dcc .

Any advise would be appreciated.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Since you mention Airwire, I'm going to presume you're looking at battery power? The Airwire would work with track power, but most folks who want DCC and use track power go with a "traditional" DCC system. 

With the Airwire system, you need a handheld transmitter (their T-5000 is their latest and greatest handheld transmitter). In terms of what to get for each locomotive, you have a few options. Airwire would, of course, like you to get their G3 board which has the receiver and motor control built into the same board (around $140.) That gets you motor and light control, but no sound. You'll have to add a DCC-compatible sound system to the G3 in order to get sound. Most folks use Phoenix Sound's P8 board. This combination gives you a very good level of sound and control. I run this combo in about half of my locos, and have little to complain about. 

As an alternative to the Airwire G3/Phoenix combination, you can use the G-wire/QSI "Titan" combination. The "Titan" is a motor/sound controller all in one. It's very full-featured, and the sounds are fantastic. The "G-wire" receiver is an Airwire-compatible receiver that plugs into the Titan so you can use the Airwire throttle or NCE's "G-wire" handheld throttle to control it. (You can also use the G-wire throttle with Airwire's G3 receivers.) I've got this combination in 2 of my locos, and am quite happy with it as well. 

If your locos don't draw that much current (less than 2 amps), you can also use Airwire's "Convertr" wireless receiver and any generic DCC decoder (such as a Soundtraxx Tsunami) to power your locomotive. I've got this combination in one of my Galloping Goose critters, since it draws--at most--3/4 of an amp. The advantage with this is that both boards take up very little space. 

I've currently got a 4-part series on DCC for large scale running in _Garden Railways_. (Part 3 is in this month's--December--issue.) It covers a lot of the basics for DCC both in battery- and track-powered environments. 

Later, 

K


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

I wasn't thinking of using batteries to power the locos. I just heard a lot about the airwire and was wondering if a combo could be done. I was hoping to find a company that makes a good sound decoder. It seems like it would be easier to setup as oppose to a separate sound card and controller. What do you think of mts decoders? It's my understanding that they can do both dcs and dcc. There are so many companies and i am new to dcc. I am just looking for nice decoder setup and some good sounds, something that can grow with new locos I purchase. I'm really looking forward to reading your article in garden railways. 
Is there anything that works with the iPad? 

Thanks again, 
Arnie


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Airwire does make a "traditional" track-powered DCC command station (EZ-DCC), though you'd have to read up on it to find out its capacities in terms of voltage and amperage. But in reality, that's going to be true of any DCC command station set-up. They're all "basically" the same, it's the amperage, voltage, and other bells and whistles like wireless control, the handheld controller itself, computer interfaces, etc. that make the differences between systems. For large scale, the general consensus is for 20 - 24 volts, 8 - 10 amps minimum. Do you "need" that? Maybe not. Depends on how fast you want to run your trains, and how many trains you run. I use an MRC Prodigy Advance2 system on my shelf railroad, which is what I use to test DCC installations I do for others, and to program my own decoders if necessary. It's 15 volts, 3.5 amps maximum. But my shelf railroad is all of 15' long, and I only ever run one locomotive at a time on it, so I don't need more than that. If I were to use DCC outdoors, I'd go for one of the 10-amp systems without question. Because I run narrow gauge trains, I can get away with lower voltages. Some command stations allow you to set the voltage going to the track. 

I'm hesitant to recommend a specific brand of DCC system because everyone has different needs for what they want in a system and how they interact with it. From a practical standpoint, the handheld controller is how you interact with any system. If you don't like the little black box that's in your hand telling your trains what to do, you're not going to like the system. I could tell you that I find brand X or brand Y the most intuitive systems on the market, and there's a very good chance when you try it, you'll walk away thinking I'm completely mental. If you don't have a local hobby shop nearby where you can try the various systems, see if there are clubs, shows, or other venues where you might have a chance to put a throttle in your hand to see how you like it. DCC has really taken hold in HO scale, so look to see if there are HO or N scale groups in your area as well. If there are no informal groups, check with the NMRA (National Model Railraod Association) to see if there's a local chapter in your neck of the woods. 

You mention being able to use an iPad, and yes you can. JMRI (Java Model Railroad Interface) has an app that turns your iPad/iPhone/tablet into a throttle, and there are others as well. That's an entirely different ball of wax, but pretty cool. That changes the paradigm a bit, in that you no longer need to look for a command station and throttle that suits you, rather you look for an app that works for you, then figure out how to connect your PC to your railroad. Read about it *here*. One caveat; iPad control isn't as effective outdoors in bright sunlight where you may have difficulty seeing the screen of your phone. 

In terms of the decoders themselves, again, I'm again hesitant to make suggestions as to what you "should" use, but will say that I've had good luck with the QSI motor/sound decoders I use. Zimo, Massoth, Lenz, and ESU/Loksound are also highly regarded by those who use them. Most (all?) of these manufacturers have sound samples on their web site so you can hear the sounds you're getting with each decoder. For smaller "critter" type locos, you can avail yourself of the lower-capacity (1 - 2 amp) decoders meant for HO and O scale locos. I mentioned the "Tsunami" board in my earlier post, which works very well for what I ask of it. Make sure whatever decoder you use will work at the track voltage you're applying. Not all decoders are created equal in that regard. If your locos have a plug-n-play socket in them, you can use any of the plug-n-play decoders on the market for simple installation. 

When you mention "MTS" decoders in the context of DCC and DCS, I presume you're referring to MTH (Mike's Train House), and not MTS (LGB's "basic" version of DCC). The latest version of DCS is supposed to be DCC-compatible, but to my knowledge, it's only available in MTH locos, not as stand-alone systems. I have zero experience with MTH's control system, so I can't be of much more help in that regard. MTS (LGB's version of DCC) is very basic in terms of its functions and how it works, so I'd probably steer clear of it as well. There are enough true DCC decoders on the market that you'll easily be able to do whatever it is you want to do (to any extreme level of control) without needing to dip your toes into the grey area of MTS or DCS boards. 

I don't think I actually "answered" any of your questions, at least if you were hoping for a grocery list of things to buy. There's a lot to choosing a DCC system, and much of it has to do with your specific needs. It is a substantial investment (upwards of $600 - $1200 depending on the system), so it's worth taking your time and making the choice that's right for you. Any chance you can get to test drive one of these systems on someone else's railroad, by all means take it. You can read and read and read all you want, but until you get the throttle in your hand, turn the knob, and make the locomotive move down the track, it's all theoretical. 

Later, 

K


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

As with anything else, the more you spend on a digital system, you usually get more. 

Beware of pitfalls.... The LGB MTS system has 4 versions and none will support more than 14 speed steps, or addressing large numbers unless you get the latest system from LGB and then add the Massoth navigator. Even then you only get 28 speed steps. 
Most other systems will do 14/28/128 speed steps. 
I use the LGB MTS I serial only system as I fix trains for others and need to verify the operation of MTS serial. 
But my real system is a Zimo, and one of the most expensive. This system has many features. 
Other manufacturers are ESU, digitrax, Massoth, MRC, NCE, Lenz, and this is just a few. 
Make sure when going to DCC that the manufacturer supports the larger G scale voltage and current. Zimo goes to 28 volts on the command/central units and even the HO decoders are rated for 35 volts.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

All, thanks for all the great advise. Unfortunately to my knowledge there are not to many places for my to 
Try these devices out. I live on Long Island NY and only Trainland has g scale but very limited when it comes 
To g scale DCC. I Have to admit Zimo peeked my interest when I saw it and everybody I talked to seem to like it. I also saw JMRI and I heard you have to write your own programming. Which is not a problem for me since 
I work in the computer industry and know how to program. I thought digitrax was only for HO and can not be used for g scale? Decision, decision....it definitely makes it harder since I can not try them out.


----------



## RCE (Sep 14, 2009)

Kevin said 
you can also use Airwire's "Convertr" wireless receiver and any generic DCC decoder 
I am using a Gwire cab with the G2 decoder now. 
Will the Gwire cab work as well with the CONVRTR? 

Richard


----------



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Arnie, 

If you can make the York large scale show you may be able to try / see some systems. Massoth had a booth this year, and I'm sure others did too. Plus some of the operating displays probably had DCC.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

How is the Greenberg show for large scale. There is one in NJ dec 1st.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Richard, I can't say for certain, because I no longer have a G-wire cab here to test it. However, I'd presume that to be the case--at least to the extent the G-wire is compatible with the other Airwire receivers. I don't know if you've experienced any weirdness when it comes to programming the Airwire with the G-wire controller or not. I remember when I first got the G-wire, I hit some snags doing so (forget the specifics), but in terms of running the trains, everything was fine. If I think about it, I'll have my dad bring out the G-wire cab I gave him to run his center cab when he comes out to visit next month and give it a go. 

Later, 

K


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The ECLSTS in york has most layouts using DC control. Show is in Late March on Friday and Saturday. 
However, Train-Li does have a display track running the Zimo system. 
Phoenix is there with their sound decoders (these are DCC and can be tied to DCC systems as well as the Gwire DCC output). 

Be sure to look at the DCC section of this forum for lots of info on systems and post specific questions there.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

My friend told me in order to get into the York show I would need some kind of membership. Is this true?


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Not for the ECSLTS (East Coast Large Scale Train Show). That's a large scale event, open to anyone weird enough to run large scale trains. The TCA (Train Collectors' Association) show in York is the one that has restrictions on who can attend. I don't remember if it's members only, or members and guests, or... 

Later, 

K


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Today I was enlightened. I was looking into the zimo dcc unit....wow. Very nice unit and nice sound decoders.
One small problem. Very very expensive, so that is not happening anytime soon. I am now looking at the NCE units
And called the people at NCE. They are also very nice. 

Does anyone know if you can use NCE with a Zimo sound decoder? The NCE people said he believes you might be able to
configured but he didn't know off hand. Another question what would be a good unit to star with on NCE
They many versions. I would like to be able to run at least 4 trains at the same time. I also own a MRC power G, which is a 10amp
Unit. Can this be used as my power source in conjunction which another dcc units.

Thanks,
Arnold


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

You can use any manufacturers command/central station with any manufacturers decoder. And Zimo has LGB compatibility as well as run on DC. 
I have a Zimo system and presently have digitrax, lenz, mrc, LGB, Massoth, Zmo engine decoders, plus switch units by lenz, mrc, pro-drive, masterline. 
It is like you can buy a car and run it with any vendors gas and on any road. 
And others do use the NCE system with Zimo decoders. 
Biggest issue I see with decoders is LGB was 14 speed steps only and users did not remember to set their units for 14 steps when running LGB decoders, or trying to set the LGB decoders for 28 speed steps. 

For power, read the specs for both power sources and what they are tied to. 
Some power sources go over 30 volts with no load and can destroy units that are attached. 
Most HO decoders do not like the G higher voltages, but Zimo's HO decoders now have a 35 volt rating (50 volt peak) and can be used in largescale.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

So could I get the NCE PH-PRO-R and use my MRC transformer 22vdc. 
This way I could save some money as opposed to buying the PH-10R which comes 
With a 10amp booster. Also could use this with HO scale.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you want to run 4 trains at once in large scale, you're going to want to invest in a 10-amp system. That's gives you 2.5 amps per train average. If you go with a 5-amp system, then you're limited to only 1.25 amps (average). Some folks have trains (multi-unit diesels with lighted passenger cars or such) that draw 5 just by themselves, let alone in concert with other trains. This is definitely an area where you want to spend the money for something that's going to be adequate right out of the gate. It's better to spend an extra $100 or so on a more powerful system than have to spend $200 later on a booster once you realize your system is underpowered. You can use either NCE system for HO as well as large scale, though you'll probably want to adjust the voltage output down for HO. (The NCE has an adjustment where you can do that.) 

You _can_ use your MRC supply if you wanted to (it's filtered DC), though I'd probably get something like a Mean Well 24-volt regulated supply instead (around $50 or so), then sell the MRC to offset the cost of the DCC system. (The MRCs are selling for $200 - $250 new.) The regulated power supplies tend to be more stable in terms of delivering a given voltage regardless of current draw. 

One other thought; if you get a switching power supply that allows you to select the voltage out of the supply itself (The Crest "Elite" power supply is one example), then you can use that and use the high voltage for large scale, then switch it to the lower voltage for the small scale. 

Later, 

K


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

We'll Based on my review and your advise I have decided to get the NCE PH-10R. I would love to get the zimo, I really like the cab with the throttle on it, but it is so expensive (out of my reach) and seems difficult to find someone around New York if you have problems with the unit to be repaired. 

Any advise on decoders or sound decoders or sound boards. I like Phoenix because you can download any sound for the board and use it on any loco. Are there sound decoders that do that? 

Thank, 
Arnie


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Zimo decoders can have the sound downloaded also. And these also have motor and light controls, plus you can control smoke unit fans and heater elements for more realistic operation. 
Cost....Less than the Phoenix. Go to zimo.at and download the manuals. MX695 is the large scale decoder, but for single motor small engines look at the MX645 and since it is smaller, it is half the price of the large decoder.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

There's also QSI and ESU "LokSound" which allow you to program and customize sounds. I've got QSI decoders in a few of my locos, and they run very well and sound great! I've played (briefly) with the LokSound stuff at a train show, and was very impressed. Both of these (QSI "Titan" and LokSound 4.0) come in "plug-n-play" forms to plug into Aristo and Bachmann locos. 

Later, 

K


----------



## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Posted By East Broad Top on 06 Nov 2013 12:54 AM 
at least to the extent the G-wire is compatible with the other Airwire receivers.
I have read this kind of hint in some other places. Can you enlighten me what the limitations of compatibility are?


After listening to the sound sample for my new Davenport I am determined to install a Zimo decoder with this Heinz Däppen sound. Since I also want to run on battery I only have a choice of G-Wire or Airwire. The new Airwire Convrtr allows me to connect the Zimo decoder, but I fear that for programming, the NCE throttle will have problems (I don't like the looks of the Airwire throttle). If I could be certain that the G-Wire receiver works with the Zimo this would be a no-brainer, it seems. Can anybody shed some light on this?

Thanks,
Peter.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

I was just looking at MTH Protosound 3 and like the feature of the conductors voice or people going on and off the trains and doors opening, etc.. I didn't like the fact that you could not turn them on or off. 

I was wondering do any of the DCC sound decoders have these same features? The people at QSI said they could add some features if I wanted it (Like "All Aboard"). I was wondering do any or them have these features already in them and which sound decoders can be activated by reed switches. 

Thanks, 
Arnie


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Phoenix has crew chatter, hot box detectors talking, and station announcements.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I have read this kind of hint in some other places. Can you enlighten me what the limitations of compatibility are? 
I'd have to find the notes I took at the time to get specific (which--quite honestly--would be a long shot for me to actually find them), but the issues surrounded programming the decoders. In terms of _operating_ the Airwire, it's compatible. Some of the features of the G-wire transmitter like the momentum adjustment, macros, etc. aren't supported, though. I've got to replace my G-wire transmitter after giving mine to my dad to run his QSI-equipped locos. Once I do that, I'll be able to test the new G-3 Airwire and the new "Convertr" receiver with the G-wire. 

Later, 

K


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks. I'll have to look into the Phoenix. I guess I could put a separate decoder on with that. I like that it has 
Hot box detectors(is this reed switches?). Ideally I would like to setup triggers on the track to make things happen as oppose To me trying to control multiple trains to do it. Something tells me I won't be able to handle 
More than 2 trains for all the functions. Someone mention some software called "railroad" something... 
made in Europe. You can detect where the train is on the track. There were 3 level version bronze, silver and gold. Gold was approx $600 bills and bronze for $160. I know nothing about this yet and what version would be good for my purposes if it would be good at all. Any advise on this would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks again, 
Arnie


----------



## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Arnie I will give my story on my entry into this as I am new to DCC as well. Right now I do not have my own layout but wanted to get into the hobby so I joined a club and realized I wanted my trains to be flexible so that I can run both battery and track power and be able to run no matter where I go. I ended up choosing the QSI system myself as it has a lot of features and was one that could hold up to doing both track and battery power. I have mine engines rigged with switches underneath to switch between the two power systems. I do like the QSI as it is one integrated board and its capabilities. I will say though its not without its trials as well. DCC can be a somewhat complex program to understand unless you are a programmer. On top of that QSI's documentation had issues and was lacking but in talking with them they are working on fixing that now. Also I didn't get the programmer and one of my cards sound files wasn't loaded properly so I am having an issue in getting that reprogrammed as I need someone with the QSI programming capability. Like you I wish I could use an Ipad or smart phone in controlling my trains but sadly all the systems require somesort of base station or computer wired to the tracks for that to work which doesn't work for me when I want to use others layouts. Course it is also my gripe that the maufacturers of decoders haven't been moving forward to integrate Bluetooth onto decoders and creating better apps that do a lot of the DCC functions for you so makes it easier for people to do and get into and use but I digress. Anyway, I have found that in choosing a system it really comes down to how you want to use your trains. If you really aren't going to take them anywhere and just going to run on your layout and use your IPad go for it and find an old computer to use to do it. As for cards I can't say I love one over other I think they are all quite capable but I will say having a seperate sound card that costs more then ones that go in your PC does irk me.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

I like the guys at QSI. When you call them they will work with you, which is important to me. Since I have worked on computers most of my life I'm not to worried about the networking multiple layouts with this stuff. 
From what I see so far you should be able to hook up a computer via RS232 port into most central stations. 
As for Bluetooth I haven't seen that yet and wouldn't be inclined to use it since there range limitations. 
QSI does make a 2.4ghz receiver which is real nice but that can start to add up on multiple locos. 

I like what I am reading from Railroad & company. They have a really nice piece of software, but it is pricey. 
I am also reading up on JRMI which is free. I would would like to setup a Layout with train detection and have 
Triggers on the layout were I can program an event. I would also like to run multiple trains on the same line and run it unassisted. There is just a lot to read and many choices that can be so overwhelming. That's why I'm here reaching out to the pros who have been down this road and hopefully save me from becoming broke from all my mistakes. One thing I'm learning really fast is that this is an expensive hobby and addicting.


----------



## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Posted By East Broad Top on 18 Dec 2013 10:05 PM

... but the issues surrounded programming the decoders. In terms of _operating_ the Airwire, it's compatible.

Thank you K, for confirming that. I will not mix and match, then. Now I have to decide between the NCE with the nicer TX, but complicated receiver connection, or the CVP, which seems straight forward to connect.

Kind regards,
Peter.


----------



## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Arnie, yeah the guys at QSI are starting to up their game now. Apparently someone new from QSI took over from who use to run their large scale division and is really working to fix some of the short comings of their documentation and programming, hwich I know I look forward to. I am using their wireless receivers now in all of my Loco's and agree while it's a great system it does get expensive, but I have found that is true for any of the systems out there sadly.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Peter, I'd consider getting one of each transmitter, that way you can use whichever system best fits the needs of the particular installation you're doing. That, and unless you're _always_ going to be running by yourself, there will be times when a 2nd transmitter will come in handy. (Or, perhaps you keep one in the workshop for testing, and one where you store your locomotives so it's easy to grab when you go to run.) Keep an eye on the classifieds here (and at Large Scale Central and other sites) for used Airwire transmitters. As folks upgrade to the latest T-5000 throttle, they're selling off their older throttles. They're not quite as intuitive, but for programming, they're pretty reliable. I'd probably keep the Airwire throttle in the workshop to get things set up, then use the G-wire transmitter in the garden. 

I use both QSI and Airwire. I base my choice of which system I want to use on the space I have available and--more importantly--the sounds I want to hear. If the whistle I want for a particular locomotive only exists on one or the other, that's the one I go with. Motor and light controls on both systems are reasonably similar, and using Phoenix's PC programming interface, I can adjust the response of the sounds on the Phoenix to changes in speed to be on par with that which I get from QSI's integrated sound/motor control. 

Installation of either system is pretty much the same also. If the loco has a "plug-and-play" socket, the QSI plugs right in for most of the important connections. Airwire just introduced a plug-in interface for theirs as well. If the loco does not have a socket, both companies offer easy-to-follow wiring diagrams for which wires need to go where. Airwire also includes wiring instructions for Phoenix and other sound systems. 

Later, 

K


----------



## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

RR&Co TrainController is great software, that work well with large scale. I use it, check out ytgeorgc on You Tube. I wouldn't get too bothered about going for this manufacturers equipment or that manufacturers equipment just yet. First decide what you want, not what they can provide. Buy equipment that is compatible with TrainController, almost all is but check before buying. If I can help let me know.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi John, I'm 99% sure I will get NCE PH10-R unit. I could use lots of help with this. What version of RR&Co TrainController are you using? (Bronze, Silver or Gold). The Gold is so expensive(over $600) especially when you add the NCE PH10-r on top of it. 
Are you using train detectors ands switches on your layout? 
Thanks, 
Arnie


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Arnie, in case it hasn't been mentioned yet, check out Greg's site: 
http://www.elmassian.com/dcc/my-implement 

I have pretty much the same setup (NCE PH10-R, Meanwell 10a supply), and am very happy with it. 

Good for you, digging in and doing the research! You'll be glad you did. 
Cliff


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

You say you want a modern system, yet the NCE is about the most out of date out there. Have you checked out this one:? 

http://www.z21.eu/en


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Thanks, I just reviewed the z21. From what I read this would now be your central station and you could use your iPad or smartphone to operate the trains. It looks nice but I have concerns with the wireless frequency. I can not find out what frequency they are using(2.4,5.8, etc..) the camera technology is ok. I also run RC airplanes And we use FPV(first person view). To give you a full effect they have special tv googles and it feels like you are in the plane flying. That uses either either 2.4 or 5.8. Most of the radios use 2.4ghz so if the camera is operating on the same frequency you get a lot of static or white noise. I wonder if you can use your own router with this? Do you have any idea what this cost? I noticed they had beginner and expert but who sells this in the states.


----------



## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Arnie, I have been interested and have seen the stuff for the Z21 as well but not sure it works with large scale. You would need to find a away to run the signal through a power booster since base system is not very powerful and meant for smaller trains. At the same time not sure their software is setup for US trains either. Also don't know of anyone in states that sells it but you might inquire with the folks at Train LI as they seem to deal mostly in European items so they may be able to get it if you are that interested.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

I found a place that sell it in ohio. DCCTrains llc for 399.99 it has a3.1amp booster and you can get 
boosters but they recommend only 3 amp boosters because of short circuits.


----------



## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Posted By East Broad Top on 20 Dec 2013 10:21 AM 
Peter, I'd consider getting one of each transmitter, ...
Thanks again, K. Your advice makes sense, but it probably doesn't fit my situation: I'm only starting out and there won't be too many locos in the foreseeable future. Here in NZ we pay about double, so it will have to be one or the other, for now.

Regards,
Peter.


----------



## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

Arnie,

I use Gold, it is not so expensive when compared with just one large scale engine and is well worth the money.

Any train automation is going to require feedback, so yes I've got some occupancy detectors. Yes all of my points are controlled automatically.

I wouldn't get too hung up about what hardware to use just yet.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

John, in my case I need to get a dcc unit plus the decoders for 4 locos and I would like to get the train controller. All together it's killing me or I should say (My wife is going to kill me if I buy all this together). 
I guess I'll have to acquire a little at a time....


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Arnie, there's a thread in the DCC called "Sprog 3"--that's another option you may want to investigate...lots of choices! 

Keith


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi Keith, 
Thanks, I looked up the Sprog 3. This would be almost perfect for what I am looking for, but the specs say 
It can only go to approx 3.5 amps. I believe I will need more than that if I am running multiple trains at the same time. I would like to run approx. 4 - 6 trains at the same. What do you think?. 

I would like to automate my entire layout. I like the railroad & company and JMRI software and would like to play around with these.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Sorry I meant that it does 2.5 amps. Is there a rule to follow on how many amps per loco? 
I'm going based on 1 amp per loco without a load.


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Arnie, are you still planning on NCE PH10-R? If so, I'm not sure what else you need, beyond decoders and a 10A power supply... but I've probably overlooked something in the thread ...


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

I not sure, I'm just concerned if the automation programs work with there stuff. Then when I read about the Sprog interfaces I realized that this would work fine for my purposes because I could tie my computer to the tracks. The bottom line shopping for dcc units is like picking out a paint colors, way to many to decide. 

Being a computer person I know I will want to do automation and there will be times when I want to run them on my own, But mostly automated. I notice the European market appears to be big in this. 

My real concern is investing to much we're I can not expand the system. Any advise it really appreciated.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Arnie, I have some advice for you - email me 

(note my signature) 

Greg


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm really interested in automation as well -- eventually -- and that's why I went the DCC route. 

But I'm really green on the controls end, so please post on what you learn & decide on. And yes, email Greg! 

Cliff


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi Cliff, 
I emailed Greg, He was helpful, I realized that it would be pretty safe for me to get an NCE unit to support my DCC and my automation. Right now I have the NCE Power Cab for HO and based on my email with Greg I pickup an NCE USB interface 
yesterday for my computer. This weekend I plan to load JMRI and start becoming familar with there software. after emailing Greg I realized I need to first crawl before I start running with this stuff. 

I also corresponded with Jürgen Freiwald who makes the software (RAILROAD & CO) Train Controller. There sofware will only work with a serial port and they plan on releasing a USB version. Being a computer guy I wonder if I can use a USB to Serial adapter and tie it into the NCE Power CAB. I'll have to play around with this and see. They have a free download of there software for an older version 5.8 which should be fine for me to get an idea of what it can do. They lastest is version 8. here is the link for there free version http://www.freiwald.com/pages/download58.htm. 

I'll keep you posted on my progress after this weekend. 

Thanks all for your help and advise. I surely appreciate this website.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

If you go to the link make sure you do not include the last period. Otherwise it takes you to the wrong place. 

http://www.freiwald.com/pages/download58.htm


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Good deal, Arnie. Greg's helped me TONS. 
I have the interface cable and software, just haven't gotten around to playing with them though. So feel free to post on what you learn!


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Is anyone familiar esu ecos 50200 central station. This system appears to do everything I'm looking for. 
Just looking for some feedback on this unit. Thanks Arnie


----------



## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Posted By Arnie on 06 Feb 2014 08:36 PM 
Is anyone familiar esu ecos 50200 central station. This system appears to do everything I'm looking for. 
Just looking for some feedback on this unit. Thanks Arnie 
Hi Arnie,
I got the ECoS2 about a month ago. So far great. Track diagrams for control require time to input but you can do almost everything.

My shadow station plan in Photoshop 












The switchable touchscreen layout










Fairly steep learning curve but goods documentation in german and english. Support forums as well.

TOM


----------



## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

G'day Arnie, 
If you want to safe some bucks and you are comfortable building and tinkering with electronics, you might want to try this... 
http://www.merg.org.uk/index.php 
Kind regards Michael


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Tom. - Your layout looks amazing. You really seem to get a lot of features with this unit. One of the main reasons I am looking into this unit is for its train identification (rail com). Just curious how many trains can you run at the same time without a booster. 
Looks like a really sweet unit. I am meeting the sale rep for North America today. 

Michael - thanks for the link . I actually ran across this some time ago when looking into train automation. My biggest issue is getting enough time building all these units. I have looked into JMRI and railroad and company which I would like to interface with these trains 
But the key component for me is train identification. I've looked into RFID and that is pretty costly as well, plus I do not know how well it would do left outside in the snow. And this year we have been getting pretty of snow. I have come to the conclusion 
Just about everything is expensive in this scale.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Tom, 

Can you tell me what are the unit you are using in your photoshop design. I can't really make out the names. 

Thank you, 
Arnie


----------



## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Hi Arnie,
The included transformer is 15V -- 21V and 5amps.
I will be adding additional Lenz boosters which can easily be attached for separate track segments.
The plan is only the shadow station on the floor. More at: Layout post

Not sure which units you mean. The layout is about 22 X 23 feet.
LGB & Piko track and LGB switch machines for the hidden areas.
ECosDetector and Extension. Lenz LS150s and SwitchPilots for switching.

TOM


----------



## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Hey Arnie, I've recently upgrade most of my layout to DCC. I have a digitrax command station and Zimo decoders. If I can be any help, let me know.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi Tom, 
I think it's the detectors that I am seeing on your diagram. I wasn't sure what the grey units were. I assume those are the Lenz units. 
I ended up meeting Mat from esu this afternoon. I bought the command station and the detector and the programming unit. He has no g scale decoders and has put an order in which will probably take 4 weeks. I also realized I will need the switch pilots. 
I'm curious ...why Lenz boosters over ESU? 
Arnie


----------



## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Posted By Arnie on 08 Feb 2014 02:24 PM 
Hi Tom, 
I think it's the detectors that I am seeing on your diagram. I wasn't sure what the grey units were. I assume those are the Lenz units. 
I ended up meeting Mat from esu this afternoon. I bought the command station and the detector and the programming unit. He has no g scale decoders and has put an order in which will probably take 4 weeks. I also realized I will need the switch pilots. 
I'm curious ...why Lenz boosters over ESU? 
Arnie 
Hi Arnie,
I had a Lenz control unit from a previous layout and was going to go with Lenz until I found the ESU.
I found a very good source in Germany for ESU and other stuff.
Their prices are the lowest I've found in Germany and don't charge the VAT if sending to the USA and have almost everything you need.
Shipping is reasonable and very quick.
Check it out: Lokshop

TOM


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Beautiful.....thanks so much. I will look them up tonight. Trains seem really popular in Europe. The sale rep from ESU showed me a 
Train ESU sells in Europe, when hard braking is performed sparks come out (which is really a light flickering) and sounds on hard turns 
And when it goes over switches. Very realistic. He mentioned they cannot sell them here because of patent infringements from MTH. 
Go figure, who thought you could patent a sound from a train.


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Tom, 

I checked out that site and they seem pretty high in price if I am converting my euro's correctly. You should try Trainland in lynbrook, ny 
I was there this weekend and they gave me a much better price almost 30% difference than lokshop. The only thing is if they run out of stock, reorders seem to take around 2 to 4 weeks is what the sales rep told me. 

Thanks again, 
Arnie


----------



## Arnie (Jan 2, 2013)

Hello,
I bought an ESU LOKsound XL 4.0 decoder and would like to install it in an Aristocraft DASH-9.
Has anyone worked with this before? I'm just a little concerned about wiring the lights to the decoder
since they are led lights.
Thank,
Arnie


----------



## Gtrainsde (May 6, 2013)

Hi Arnie,

connect all led with + to the 5 Volt output so you will have constant brightness even if track voltage is unsteady.

Connect - to the function outputs by adding a resistor for EACH led (best is soldering it directly at each led).

At 5 Volts, for white led 100 Ohm is the required minimum, for colored led 150 Ohm. Higher values are possible but light will be less bright.

br
Wolfgang


----------



## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Hmmm, interesting... on my Bachmann railtruck I wired 1k to the tail light and a single 1k to both headlight LEDs. The tail light is really bright, while the headlights are very dim. Could be my dodgy soldering. :-(


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

BEDDhist in DCC you can use 1 resistor if the leds are in series.
2 leds give around 6 volts ( I am assuming the led has approx 3 volt drop), and a 910 ohm will give approx 18 volts drop at 20ma on a 24 volt DCC system.

Be sure these leds are 20ma max.
The tail light if red may be a lower current device (10ma) and if so, a larger resistor must be used to prevent the led from burning out.

Do you know what your system output voltage is?


----------



## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Thanks Dan. The h/l LEDs are wired parallel. They are fed 5V by the decoder, through 1 1k resistor.

12V battery > Airwire Convrtr > Zimo decoder > 5V to LEDs.

Regards,
Peter.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

At 5 volts, you only need 100 ohms for 2 leds in parallel to get approx 10 ma per led.
The 1k resistor is limiting your current way too much. The tail light can use 330 ohms assuming this led is 10 ma max, but you can run leds at lower current without much light loss and a tail light should not be as bright as a head light.


----------

