# New Aristo PCC car has Arrived for a test run



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Well to Aristos credit they shipped these things out quick.

They just arrived at Aristocraft yesterday and i received mine this morning.


1st observation is the Model is nicely done, The LEDs



light up really bright and the brake lights are a cool feature.

I had to call Navin quick this AM because the lights didnt work, but it turned out to be the switch.

Just wiggle it a bit and they lit. 


Runs very well and quiet.

Only thing i wasnt exspecting was that it didnt have a speaker.

I will fix that this afternoon and ad a QSI Card to it and some people and it will be good to go.

Good Job Aristo and thanks to Scott and Navin and the rest of the Aristo crew for doing a great job on this item









Looks like Aristo is turning the Quality control issues around and the've done a nice job. Fit and finish 


Greg , RJ, And myself came up with a cool sound file so all i need to do is add a speaker some were under the roof and were set.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Nick,

*Are you feeling ok?* I only see one emoticon in your post and it isn't even moving !


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the pics Nick. Looks nice. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

come ON Nick, lets see it out on your layout.....


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Nice looking trolley, Nick. Thanks for the pictures. We'll be anxious to hear how it runs after you get the sound, speaker, etc. into it.

Ed


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 07 Jan 2011 11:57 AM 
Nick,

*Are you feeling ok?* I only see one emoticon in your post and it isn't even moving !








Randy,

I give credit when credit is due









In this case job well done......


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 07 Jan 2011 12:23 PM 
come ON Nick, lets see it out on your layout..... 
Marty, 

Have your fun now why you can.....









Remember every king falls off the throne one day.............









And then the Prince takes over...........











Or the Prince removes him...













All in good fun of course.....

HE HE HE..











From the ashs of the field of Dreams,

Rises the Enchanted forest.......... of the East.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nick, please some pictures of the underside, and the socket, with and without cover... 

Also any flat place inside to lay a small speaker box? 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Sorry Greg i was in the middle of Populating the car.

An no its not done yet, will finish in a bit.





























































































And who said Nick couldn't work a screw driver.........


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Looks nice Nik. 
Don't see much room for a speaker anywhere without cutting out some seats. 
This one may have to run naturally. 
Glad I use DCC cause this will look REALLY wierd with a trailing car behind it, talk about a HUGE except









Ron


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 07 Jan 2011 02:50 PM 
Looks nice Nik. 
Don't see much room for a speaker anywhere without cutting out some seats. 
This one may have to run naturally. 
Glad I use DCC cause this will look REALLY wierd with a trailing car behind it, talk about a HUGE except









Ron

No theres not much room in there,

But we will figure something out.

Been on the phone with Axle to see what kind of speakers he has to offer for this.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

mount the speaker on the rear of the car, remove the two rear windows.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Ok some final pictures and a quick video before i go out plowing.

Sorry did not have time to Edit video.

More to come once we figure out the sound system.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Talk about a short line railroad Nick


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Man, I have to take back everything I ever said about Aristo!

What a bunch of nice guys, making a heater to keep that woman's feet warm!!!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah. I can use that heater here in my part of the country. Thanks AC for taking car of the passengers. Later RJD


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

GREAT looking model. And seeing that a slew of PCCs were used around the world (Leningrad USSR had a 2,000+ fleet) it should be a global hit!


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## ORD23 (Jan 2, 2010)

Wow a trolley from my old stomping grounds!! Coney Island!!!!!! How about pulling those last set of seats and putting in the speaker in an enclosed box. Did not see the back of the trolley, but you could probably build a grill back there and it seems as tho the lights can be rewired easily. 

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nick, I think you can fit this speaker in the roof, it's only 3/4" deep. Axel has them at Train-Li, it's 2" diameter, high performance low profile, about $14

*http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/h...-1192.html* 


Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Great looking model, hope they sell a lot of them. 

Wonder why they put those 5mm leds in for lights? They look pretty good, but they're needlessly big. I'd have used the low profile PC mount lights 

If I were trying to get sound in there, I'd take the light strips out and replace them with those flat LED ribbon lights (http://www.oznium.com/led-ribbon). Then I'd put in a two inch low profile speaker, something like this: (http://qsisolutions.com/products/techinfo/spkrs/q_spk_hb177r_pics.html). Glue it to the ceiling. If you got the right size and put it in an enclosure it could look like some piece of ventilation equipment 

A digitrax DH465 decoder and a sfx004 soundbug would take up very little space and have more than enough capacity for the car. There's a good streetcar soundfile available, and the volume is adequate. Sounds are not up to QSI quality, but not bad


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Nick,

That car looks pretty nice… I gotta get one!

The plug-n-go socket clearance to the hatch cover looks kinda shallow?

What’s making that loping noise??? Sounds like something’s out of round… Maybe that’s how they really sounded.

Are the lights the right color temperature for this era?

Adding the human-beings really brings it home IMO.

I have some nice flat lil speakers for smaller gauge trains that might work out on the floor boards or under the seats. The rear of the car does provide a plausible speaker enclosure area as George noted.

Michael


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 07 Jan 2011 07:30 PM 

Nick,

That car looks pretty nice… I gotta get one!

The plug-n-go socket clearance to the hatch cover looks kinda shallow?

What’s making that loping noise??? Sounds like something’s out of round… Maybe that’s how they really sounded.

Are the lights the right color temperature for this era?

Adding the human-beings really brings it home IMO.

I have some nice flat lil speakers for smaller gauge trains that might work out on the floor boards or under the seats. The rear of the car does provide a plausible speaker enclosure area as George noted.

Michael

Loping noise sounds like something in the motor blocks.

I hope nothing is wrong.

I will run it in and see if it gets better.

These are a new designed motor block from Aristo

Thought the loping noise was just me !!!!!!!!!!!

I really like this car and dont want to cut it up to bad,

I will find the best way to mount speaker so not that noticeble 


But still sounds good.

They ONLY reason i bought this is for show use with full sound 

So kids can play with it at the shows running under DCC.

Under car clearance may be an

issue with the QSI card installed.

I will try to fit it tommarrow and see how it works out.

I already have the card so i'd like to use what i have,

And being new to DCC, The simpler the better

to start with.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

Hard to tell from the pics of what else might be in this area, but how about those 2" x 3/4" low profile speakers facing down under the front and/or rear platform areas (where you have the tape measure)?? 
Looks like the body might hang down pretty low and give you enough room for a small enclosure ?? Crank it up! 

-Ray


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Nick, where are all of the People from.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 07 Jan 2011 10:02 PM 
Nick, where are all of the People from. 
I buy them here Mike.


http://cgi.ebay.com/100-pcs-Model-T...704360?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3ca7875e68 


I just picked up a bunch more people for my 2nd set of 13 heavyweights that i just picked up used this summer


Heres the 1st set and what the people look like in them.


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Nick that car looks great.
I am curious about how a street car gets implemented into a garden railroad? I have only seen pictures of the PCC cars and they only show them operating on streets. For the model to be in its element would it have to be shown running on a street or did these cars also run on tracks though wooded suburban areas as well? Of coarse I due believe in the motto "my railroad, I run what I want" I was just wondering about the prototypes actual environment.

thanks

Steve


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Steve,

I bought this soley to run at shows.

But there are a lot of guys with streets on there layouts,

I think it will be ok.


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Thanks Nick, guess I'll have to lay some asphalt.










Steve


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

The Mattapn-Ashmont line here in Massachusetts uses PCC's and they do not run on streets except at crossings.
LAO


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## Bill C. (Jan 2, 2008)

SEPTA's old Red Arrow division in the Philly suburbs used a double-ended PCC-style cars built by St. Louis in the post war era. They ran on private right of way and city streets, as do their replacement K cars today. Just a matter of time until someone makes an Eggliner PCC!


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill thanks for the video i noticed that the street cars could be driven in either direction. The aristo has a front end and a back end would that make it look odd running on a reversing unit.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick,
How is the gauging on the wheels? Those are some pretty wide treads.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

PCC cars were built in both single and double ended configurations. Most of the current SF cars are single ended as the Muni has turn around loops at the ends of their runs. PE typically ran double ended cars but some of the competing street railways in LA ran single ended cars, some narrow gauge.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Arent you concerned about all that crap in the Ile way? One of your passengers might trip and fall.

Nice looking car. Are you going to keep it that way or are you going to re paint it?


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I am curious about how a street car gets implemented into a garden railroad? I have only seen pictures of the PCC cars and they only show them operating on streets. For the model to be in its element would it have to be shown running on a street or did these cars also run on tracks though wooded suburban areas as well? 

As I recall from when I lived in North Versailles (pron. ver-sails) in 1969-70, the Pittsburgh PCCs ran through the suburbs which were often separated by areas that weren't inhabitable because of the forested hills (Castle Shannon, etc.). I seem to recall that the beginning and end of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood reflected that as well. Further proof that there's a prototype for everything. 

JackM


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Or to an amusement park that's a bit out of town, although not far enough to require an "interurban"???


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

speaking of inter erban lines 

I have a documentary about street car lines in the San Francisco Area 

It shows that at one time you could take a trolly from San Francisco to Sacramento to Chico california .

Look that up in your road altlass and you will be amazed how far that ran. 

This is when the Key system ran on the lower deck of the bay bridge.

JJ


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Those figures inside look a lot better than empty cars. At that price you can add quite a few. I see only one G set listed, how is the seated- standing mix.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron??? Was that a little jab at us battery guys?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 08 Jan 2011 12:21 PM 
Ron??? Was that a little jab at us battery guys?


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

the obvious place for a speaker is under the raised end of the car on either end, facing down. It will be view blocked by the body skirt.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Paul Burch on 08 Jan 2011 08:49 AM 
Nick,
How is the gauging on the wheels? Those are some pretty wide treads.

Mr Burch,

I think Gauge is OK.............

By the Kadee Gauge anyways..........


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 08 Jan 2011 11:27 AM 
Those figures inside look a lot better than empty cars. At that price you can add quite a few. I see only one G set listed, how is the seated- standing mix. 
Mike,

If you check their store,

You will see 10 listed............


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Thank you everyone for the information about the prototype PCC. I enjoyed the video (and music) Bill C. posted. I was happy to learn from you all that a prototype PCC car did not necessarily run on streets. Looking forward to adding a PCC in the future.









Steve


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Tried to install QSI Today and having issues.

1st thing is they have added a jumper that sits to high and when you plug the board in it hits the metal jumper and will not seat properly.


Also they are using a round type capasitor type thing on the board and that sits higher then the plug sockets so this is an issue as

well, for either QSI or the Revo .


When to boards are plugged in they sit way to low to the track for me.

Im not happy. plus their is a issue with the motor blocks but i will 

have to call Navin on that one.



























Sorry for some reason the Camera wont focus.



















Another issue is on the sides of the trucks theres a detail part down low, looks like a skate of some sort, it hits the rail when running..











 
Will have to figure out what to do with that, as it cant be left as is.
 
And finally i found out what the loping noise is.


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Nick,

Thanks for all the info on the new PCCs. The "skate" on the truck that is hitting the rail is, on the prototype, the electromagnetic track brake which comes into play just as the car is stopped. It holds the car still while the car is sitting taking on passengers, etc. Looks like a bit of filing is in order.

Your loping sound is the same thing my RDC-3 car was doing. It ended up being a bad gearbox. Looks like a trip back to Aristo.Do these cars go around 4 foot diameter curves? Has anyone experimented with that? I want to put reversing loops on my layout and was wondering.

Other folks have indicated that they did not know how they could run these cars in the garden as they are "street"cars.PCC cars run on the ex-Boston and Albany Railroad Riverside line here in Boston which looks for all the world just like a double track mainline on any 1950's railroad. Those cars never see a street in their entire run on that line! Plenty of other cities have/had simillar runs such as Pittsburgh with the Drake and Library lines, Pacific Electric with their lines that the double-ended PCCs ran on, etc.

How many folks plan on overhead wire. I know I will be hanging some.

Mike McCormack
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Is it just me, or are the wheels seriously out of round?
Individual rollers are at times not moving. Are your rollers worn or is it the wheels?
ralph


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Ralph Berg on 09 Jan 2011 08:45 AM 
Is it just me, or are the wheels seriously out of round?
Individual rollers are at times not moving. Are your rollers worn or is it the wheels?
ralph

Rollers are new. 

Its the wheels


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By mocrownsteam on 09 Jan 2011 08:35 AM 
Nick,

Thanks for all the info on the new PCCs. The "skate" on the truck that is hitting the rail is, on the prototype, the electromagnetic track brake which comes into play just as the car is stopped. It holds the car still while the car is sitting taking on passengers, etc. Looks like a bit of filing is in order.

Your loping sound is the same thing my RDC-3 car was doing. It ended up being a bad gearbox. Looks like a trip back to Aristo.Do these cars go around 4 foot diameter curves? Has anyone experimented with that? I want to put reversing loops on my layout and was wondering.

Other folks have indicated that they did not know how they could run these cars in the garden as they are "street"cars.PCC cars run on the ex-Boston and Albany Railroad Riverside line here in Boston which looks for all the world just like a double track mainline on any 1950's railroad. Those cars never see a street in their entire run on that line! Plenty of other cities have/had simillar runs such as Pittsburgh with the Drake and Library lines, Pacific Electric with their lines that the double-ended PCCs ran on, etc.

How many folks plan on overhead wire. I know I will be hanging some.

Mike McCormack
Hudson, Massachusetts

At high speed runs fine at slow speed it very jerky

I will take another video later at slow speed.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, 
Not quite right about the rail brakes. They were used only for emergency stops. The regular tread brake (or drum brake in later models) held the car at service stops. If you needed to make an emergency stop (or if the motorman took his foot off of the deadman) then the rail brakes were activated and slid along the rail head to give the car extra stopping power. The sander was activated as well. 

Pre-trip SOP here was to put the car in emergency then walk around it and kick each of the rail brakes to make sure they were holding the rail. 

Most PCC cars were single ended. Most systems used private right-of-way mixed with street running. There are lots of resources out there and you're likely to find a prototype for any kind of operation you might want to model. You might also want to visit (either in person or via the net) your local trolley museum. If you're ever in Pittsburgh, come on out to the Pennsylvania Trolley Museum. If you're ucky, you might get to ride on a PCC, or maybe get the chaance to look at one as it sits on the inspection pit.

As to the model, it's too bad they couldn't have used warm white LEDs. The blue ones leave lots to be desired for a $240 piece of equipment. So the motors aren't quite right, and the light switch needed to be fiddled with. Sounds like normal Aristo QC issues.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Nick just some suggestions, for close ups on or with your camera, use the Macro setting, should have one,will cut down on blurriness! Also get a tripod to set camera on, no more herky jerky! And maybe Mr. Polk didn't want QSI in his new addition, if he didn't alow enuough space for it to plug in???? Maybe he just wanted to go revolutionary on prospective customers! What you tink???? Another fine Aristocrap product eh? Maybe dey got the cart fore the horse!! Just stinks when you get a new product, and out of the box, it has to go back, and all kinds of issue's with it!! Darn shame! Regal


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By John J on 08 Jan 2011 10:15 AM 
Arent you concerned about all that crap in the Ile way? One of your passengers might trip and fall.

Nice looking car. Are you going to keep it that way or are you going to re paint it? 

No paint it will stay this way...

People can fend for them selfs HE HE HE


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By blueregal on 09 Jan 2011 10:10 AM 
Nick just some suggestions, for close ups on or with your camera, use the Macro setting, should have one,will cut down on blurriness! Also get a tripod to set camera on, no more herky jerky! And maybe Mr. Polk didn't want QSI in his new addition, if he didn't alow enuough space for it to plug in???? Maybe he just wanted to go revolutionary on prospective customers! What you tink???? Another fine Aristocrap product eh? Maybe dey got the cart fore the horse!! Just stinks when you get a new product, and out of the box, it has to go back, and all kinds of issue's with it!! Darn shame! Regal 
Jerry,

Im still trying to find that setting on my camera ...........


Cant seem to locate.............


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Nick, The symbol for it is what looks like a mini tulip.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

So the new trolley won't work with a QSI card???


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 09 Jan 2011 01:29 PM 
Nick, The symbol for it is what looks like a mini tulip.

















Thanks Randy,

I found it with your help.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 09 Jan 2011 01:30 PM 
So the new trolley won't work with a QSI card???









Ron,

It works just hangs low,

So were going to take care of that.

I mean Greg is going to for me.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

the Pittsburgh PCCs ran through the suburbs which were often separated by areas that weren't inhabitable because of the forested hills 

As a lifetime member of the Grammar Police, I will turn myself in to the authorities for this travesty against the Queen Mother's tongue. I didn't mean to imply that the suburbs were sometimes separated and sometime not separated by the hills. The PGH suburbs have long been separated by those pesky hills and can be expected to continue to be separated until the next great Tectonic shift. Further, I was in error to say the suburbs weren't inhabitable; to the contrary, the 'burbs weren't habitable. 

I have been sentenced to not write any postings on Sunday mornings until at least my second cup of coffee. 

Apologetically yours, Yours for good grammar, and Yours ervant in the battle against sloppy writing, 
JackM


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Will keep a close eye on how all this shapes up. Not sounding to good so far and wheels really are wobble.







Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nick, I see the interference problem clearly now on the main board, thought it was the small yellow cap, but it's the larger 47 microfarad cap. We should be able to address that too, but I still am very surprised at all the interfering junk they put BETWEEN the socket pins. I wonder if they ever plugged anything into the socket! 

Greg


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## xtcbct (Jul 15, 2008)

Just ordered this PCC in the MBTA version from one of the big online G scale retailers. Can't wait to see it in person. 

Xian


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Seen these anomilies in other other NEW products, ultimatley OUT-SOURCING was to blame, go figure... 

Michael


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Spoke with Navin this morning and he said he'd take care of running issues for me.









AAAAAAAAAA+++++++++++ to Aristo's Service department and Navin









I fixed the clearance issues with the plastic skates by grinding them down a bit.

Got the QSI board mounted and called Axle for a speaker.

I think at this point, to get a decent size speaker in there

I will mount it to the inside rear roof and cut some of the windows

in the rear of the car half way open to allow sound out.









More to come.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick how much cleance do you have now with the QSI? I just ordered the Green Hornet one. Later RJD


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

As to the wheel performance, I have seen this on other locos.

Though the wheels may be out of round, the bigger issue is how the axle assembly is made.
If it's like other Aristo products (and other manufactures), the assembly is not a solid axle that traverses in a direction across the rails, rather, it is made of stub axles fasten to either side of an electrically insulated (nylon) gear. So tolerances are such that the axle, as an assembly, is not perfectly straight like it could be if machining a solid metal shaft.

The result is wheel wobble comprising up-down and side-to-side displacement - so the whole thing does not run true. (If you view the wheels running head on, or with the trolley turned upside down, the side to side displacement can be noticed.)

Among other things, non true running wheels can result in not all wheel surfaces touching the rail head at the same time which means intended (distributed) electrical pickup is at risk as wheel contact from the rails may be somewhat random from each of the offending wheels as the trolley or loco goes down the track. Furthermore, as wheel surfaces break contact above the rail head, electrical arcing can be expected, causing carbon or and other deposits that contribute to dirty wheels and rails, making this situation even worse.

-Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nick, while on the subject of wheels, the wheels do not look plated as the Aristo diesels are. 

Looking at the "rough cast" ends of the wheels, is the tread area the same? 

Thanks, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 10 Jan 2011 11:34 AM 
Nick how much cleance do you have now with the QSI? I just ordered the Green Hornet one. Later RJ

RJ,

This is the best angle i could get.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10 Jan 2011 03:30 PM 
Nick, while on the subject of wheels, the wheels do not look plated as the Aristo diesels are. 

Looking at the "rough cast" ends of the wheels, is the tread area the same? 

Thanks, Greg 
Greg,

Dont hold me to it but they appear to be a smooth cast finish.


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## bbenardo (Dec 27, 2007)

Nick
Are both trucks powered, and what scale is it.1/29 , 1/24, 1/32.
Bruce Benardo


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By bbenardo on 10 Jan 2011 06:20 PM 
Nick
Are both trucks powered, and what scale is it.1/29 , 1/24, 1/32.
Bruce Benardo

Bruce,

Yup both powered and all wheel pick ups.

1/29th scale


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Nick for that shot. Really close. I wonder how hard it would be to raise the car some. Later RJD


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for all the detailed info and images, Nick! I'm planning to buy several of the PCCs for my indoor (garage) layout, but may wait until Aristo has a chance to work out what appear to be some first-run bugs. I plan to purchase the San Francisco and Pittsburgh versions initially since I have ridden the real deal, and then a couple of others later on.


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

I think it is just a little ironic that while most Aristo stuff sits way too high to be prototypic, when they finally get it right the control boards don't fit because the car sits too low! Poor Lewis. Sometimes you just can't win! 

Allan, I would be careful about waiting until Aristo works out the bugs in the first run, as there may not be a second run. Ask me about waiting for the second run of RDC-1s! I learned a long time ago when I was in O scale that if you see something you can't live without you should buy it because when you are looking for it later you won't find it available any more! The issues that are being seen with the PCC are, in my opinion, pretty minor and I have gone and purchased a Boston car based on what I have read here and the fact that Aristo will repair any defects. 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Nick, 

Thank you for all the experience info. on the new PCC car. 

Subjectively, what would you say are the speed / gearing characteristics when the PCC car is run on the track- like, does it seem too fast (suffering from "Lionelism") or is it realistic? 

-Ted


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I agree with Mike,

If your going to get one, get it now.

Because who knows what the future holds.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 11 Jan 2011 08:53 AM 
Nick, 

Thank you for all the experience info. on the new PCC car. 

Subjectively, what would you say are the speed / gearing characteristics when the PCC car is run on the track- like, does it seem too fast (suffering from "Lionelism") or is it realistic? 

-Ted 
Ted,

The speed seems to be really good,

Not fast at all at full speed .


Seems very Realistic. 


Slow speed seems to be good

But because of the motor block issue i cant

Slow it down to slow or it starts to stall

Once the blocks are replaced i can let you know better.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick do you know if these trolleys will run on lgb r1 curves 4 ft. Thanks for any help.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

According to AC they should work on the 4ft Diameter curves. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By pete on 11 Jan 2011 03:51 PM 
Nick do you know if these trolleys will run on lgb r1 curves 4 ft. Thanks for any help. 
Pete,
If you check out my video 

the PCC is running on a R-1 reversing loop











Also the PCC was running at the ECLSTS on 20 inch curve track.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for answering my question i will order the mbta tomorrow also have to get some people to put inside it You putting them inside made a big difference. Thanks guys for your help.


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks Nick for the complete run down on this car.
Im new here and it's great to have people like you and others
that go out of there way to post such great threads.

I looked at the 2 other threads on the PCC car and they really weren't helpful at all.
The one with the pictures, I assume the guy works for Aristocraft since he put all
the pictures and part #s in the thread and doesnt even own one?

The other thread doesnt show it running either ?
Great videos and great info.
Thanks for helping us newbies by giving us the correct info.

I will be thinking hard about buying one. Maybe.

Fred


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

The pictures seem to suggest power pick-up through the mast is possible...true? If so, does the mast arm look like it can be used on a standard LGB catenary or is a custom built catenary system required?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

According to AC yes it can be operated with the pole system. Later RJD


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Petrosaur; 

Just thought I should note that the LGB catenary system is intended for use by pantographs and bow collectors. Its wires are not continuous; they usually have some kind of side-by-side link at each of the carrier arms. The trolley pole will dewire at the first of those junctions. Trolley poles need a continuous wire, with special types of wire frogs at junction points (as in over turnouts). 

You would be served best by finding a book on model trolley wire construction. Either HO or O scale would be fine. You could then size the system up for large scale. 

I remember that some decades ago, a former Philadelphia trolley motorman (can't remember his name - perhaps it was Bill Shope) wrote a long series of articles on modelling trolley systems in Railroad Model Craftsman. Perhaps you could research the magazine's archives online and order copies of the appropriate articles. 

Hope this helps, 
David Meashey 

P.S. The wire problem is why I chose to go with pantographs and bow collectors.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Pterosaur on 12 Jan 2011 07:29 AM 
The pictures seem to suggest power pick-up through the mast is possible...true? If so, does the mast arm look like it can be used on a standard LGB catenary or is a custom built catenary system required? 
I do not know anything about catenary systems,

But it does have a switch on the bottom for track or pole power.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick: When you were running the PCC was it always on rollers when you noticed the wobble? Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 12 Jan 2011 02:37 PM 
Nick: When you were running the PCC was it always on rollers when you noticed the wobble? Later RJD 
RJ,

I turned the car upside down and ran it and the wheels still wobble.

Same as on the roller bearing stands. By the way, the roller bearings which are mounted on the test stands. are round

Not square, so much for the ideal that the bearings on the stands are causeing the wobble 

its not true at all .......... the wheels just wobble period.


I can take a video of another loco on the stands to prove that the stands work just fine.

Vested interest comes up with vested ideals all the time........


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Is this another case of AristoCraft deciding to "fix" something that wasn't broken? 

The two axle trucks used in the RS3, Doodle bug etc are the smoothest running trucks I have ever experienced. After LGB that is. 

Will they never learn?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, to be fair, this is a brand new block, with a brand new design. It's hard to tell where the wheel eccentricity/wobble is coming from. 

My guess is, based on conversations with Nick looking at the unit running, the wheels are not well aligned with the axles. Notice the new method where they are pressed on, i.e. the axle pressed into a "blind hole" in the wheel. 

We'll have to see, and most likely only be able to discuss here, 3 posts have already been erased from the Aristo, 2 posts on wheel runout and one post where a Revo went up in smoke by contacting the jumper pins on the main board. 

I was not smart enough to save ALL of those posts, but I do have one that was deleted in 5 minutes. 

That makes it clear that someone is watching very closely all the time for negative posts on the PCC. 

To that person: You are just making people trying to tell the honest truth mad, and it will make it worse. The truth will out. Trying to stifle it will just make people redouble the effort, because it implies you have something to hide. 

These weren't bashing posts, one guy just asking about what happened to his smoked Revo, and the two posts on the wheels suggested that the wheel wobble might or might not be a problem, but it was not the fault of the roller stands used. 

Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Nick, 

Having watched your video of the PCC trolley running on the carpet track, and I noticed what appears to be light flicker directed down toward the rails & ties or possibly electrical arcing. 

I particularly noticed the effect at time points of 0:30 - 0:35 and at 1:10 to end of the video. 

Are there openings in the floor of the trolley that allow light to shine through or is it arcing? 
I think it's light, but what do you think it is? 

-Ted


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

My Boston car was just delivered by Fed-X Ground. Looks really great! Aristo has done a nice job on the car and the painting. It does have a track/overhead switch so you can power off the trolley pole. The pole might need a little work because it doesn't swivel very smoothly which it will have to do for overhead power pickup. It runs fine, albeit a little noise of gears meshing. Suspect it will run in just fine. The wheel flanges only pick one of my switches. They could be chucked in a lathe and the flanges turned down a hair, but that's a job for later when I clean up my backlog of projects on the bench. 

This is a nice product and I will be buying another when finances permit. 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick

Currently can you enclose the QSI unit? It appears from the picture the protective cover is off. Obviously this would not work for outdoor operation. 


With the reversing loop video, I am assuming you are running DCC. Have you tried adjusting QSI CVs for better slow speed performance?

My Aristo RS3/QSI had terrible slow speed performance until Greg posted a fix for this.

Thanks for the great review!


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 13 Jan 2011 09:10 AM 
Nick, 

Having watched your video of the PCC trolley running on the carpet track, and I noticed what appears to be light flicker directed down toward the rails & ties or possibly electrical arcing. 

I particularly noticed the effect at time points of 0:30 - 0:35 and at 1:10 to end of the video. 

Are there openings in the floor of the trolley that allow light to shine through or is it arcing? 
I think it's light, but what do you think it is? 

-Ted 
Ted,

Yup thier are a couple of good size holes in the floor,

The light is coming from inside,

No arcing that i can see....... Buttttttttttttt

I have noticed after running this for a few hours that 

Theres a lot of BLACK on the new track rail head already........


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By mocrownsteam on 13 Jan 2011 09:21 AM 
My Boston car was just delivered by Fed-X Ground. Looks really great! Aristo has done a nice job on the car and the painting. It does have a track/overhead switch so you can power off the trolley pole. The pole might need a little work because it doesn't swivel very smoothly which it will have to do for overhead power pickup. It runs fine, albeit a little noise of gears meshing. Suspect it will run in just fine. The wheel flanges only pick one of my switches. They could be chucked in a lathe and the flanges turned down a hair, but that's a job for later when I clean up my backlog of projects on the bench. 

This is a nice product and I will be buying another when finances permit. 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts 
Mike,

It is a nice liittle car indeed.

Do you have roller stands

If so can you place the car on them and run it

I would like to see if your car wheels wobble as well.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By adelmo on 13 Jan 2011 10:07 AM 
Nick

Currently can you enclose the QSI unit? It appears from the picture the protective cover is off. Obviously this would not work for outdoor operation. 


With the reversing loop video, I am assuming you are running DCC. Have you tried adjusting QSI CVs for better slow speed performance?

My Aristo RS3/QSI had terrible slow speed performance until Greg posted a fix for this.

Thanks for the great review! 


No you cant

Aristo didnt sink their mother board deep enough to fit the QSI inside.

Greg and i are working on something though

Should have some results in a couple of weeks after my next show is over.

We will keep you informed on the fix we are thinking about. 


Back EMF is turned off in all my decoders so thats not the issue

Car was running most of the time on DC without decoder installed and still has the same issue with loping


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Nick, 

Ran on the rollers. Looks identical to what you are getting. Might have something to do with the fact the axle doesn't extend right through the wheel due to the detail on the face of the wheel casting. 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

The loping or ecentric driver activity problem is the design and implementation of the stub axle and gear-axle coupling in my opinion. It’s unlikely the stub axles/drivers are out of round, but plausible. 

More likely than not the molded axle/gear couplings are suspect, specifically with regard to pressing the stub axles into the plastic injection molded gear/axle coupling or blind hole of the couplers verses pressing the stub axles into machined pockets on either side of the coupling. What I’m suggesting is the two blind holes on either side of the gear are independent and not concentric with one another best case would be to bore a single pass opening all the way through the gear/axle coupling after the molded coupling cooled to room temperature. If one was to counter bore through the axle/coupling a spacer of some sort inserted between the stubs would be good practice to insulate the axles from one another and of course you can set the back to back wheel to your liking too. 

Michael


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Ok Gents,

My speaker arrive from Axle at Train Li today.

Very nice indeed, small 2 inch visaton Part # K-50-WP











So here we go, this is best way i could come up with for mounting the speaker

1st i trimmed the speaker tube to fit the floor contours










Then i moved the wires out of the way

Next glued the tube to the roof of the car










The glue the speaker in after sodering the wires to it 











Next i will use a black marker to paint housing so it wont look to bad.

After that i will run a plug to were the Aristo plug is for the speaker wires

Now i need to figure out what i want to do with the windows to

make to sound come out of the car.

More to come soon, Im tierd


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Great job Nick.
What kind of sound
files are you going to use ?

Fred


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

We've customized a sound file from an electric loco, no telling how it will sound yet! 

(Hint, there is only one "electric" QSI sound file) 

Greg


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks Greg,
Cant wait to hear it, is he done yet ?

Fred


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good Nick. let us know how the sound is? Later RJD


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 Jan 2011 01:49 PM 
We've customized a sound file from an electric loco, no telling how it will sound yet! 

(Hint, there is only one "electric" QSI sound file) 

Greg 

That's one tiny GG1


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's been customized... 

Removal of all non-PCC type sounds... 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Ok i was able to get a little more done tonight.

So i installed and painted the speaker and housing.

Next i added a plug so i could connect speaker

When removing shell. 











Installed the speaker wire from the board to the chassis plug installed on the rear of the car. 











I ran the wire down the center of the car and drilled a small hole in the rear bulk head and ran wire thru it.











Now to be safe you always want to make sure you give your rear passengers a hair cut before installing the shell, i also trimmed a 

couple of poles down a bit, didnt want to poke a hole in the new speaker.

Now the only issue left is what to do to let the sound out of the car.

I will deal with that one tommarrow, have to do some cutting










Then upload sound file and hopefully finish the project.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 13 Jan 2011 06:03 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 Jan 2011 01:49 PM 
We've customized a sound file from an electric loco, no telling how it will sound yet! 

(Hint, there is only one "electric" QSI sound file) 

Greg 

That's one tiny GG1








AAAAAAAAAAAAA but theres a twist, wait and see.......................


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tom Hanks...


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 Jan 2011 08:52 PM 
Tom Hanks











One of a kind it will be.......


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ABOARD!!!!


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)




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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

If any of you are contemplating bulding your own overhead, it's not too terribly difficult. There are some pictues on my website (The Ohio River Electric Railway and Power Co.) describing how overhead works outdoors. If you have any questions, please let me know via email or post here.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Is it done yet?







. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By ohioriverrailway on 14 Jan 2011 08:28 AM 
If any of you are contemplating bulding your own overhead, it's not too terribly difficult. There are some pictues on my website (http://www.orery.com/) describing how overhead works outdoors. If you have any questions, please let me know via email or post here.

Rick,

Your link is dead.

I may be interested in something

like this for our club layout.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 14 Jan 2011 12:47 PM 
Is it done yet?







. Later RJD 


Yup,

Just fine tooning, video to come


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Volume is really loud for just a small speaker..............

Nicky likes loud......


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Me thinks nick is going to make us wait till tomorrow to see and hear his creation run.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Extraneous ) attached to link. Thanks to un-known moderator for the repair job.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

(Link) View more Ted Knight Sound Clips and Judge Smails Sound Clips


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

He's doing it, we were programming the user sound earlier today. 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Ok heres the 1st video with low volume,

Dont mind the mess in the basement

its my work area till garage is fully set up.

Thanks to Greg, RJ. and to Aristo for making

This PCC car. Now all i need is the new motor blocks

that were promised to me by next week

And it will be ready for our 1st show of the year 

in 3 weeks.

2nd video uploading now at full voulume.

I will post it later


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks very nice Nick. I didn't notice any wobble like you mentioned before.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 15 Jan 2011 04:33 PM 







Looks very nice Nick. I didn't notice any wobble like you mentioned before.








Gary,

I never said car wobbles, I said wheels wobble in video.

Car has low speed loping so you have to start and stop

It quick, other wise herky jerky operation as can be seen in 1st video on rollers.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounding good Nick. Can not belive mine showed up today. Only one axle has a wobble and the gear noise not to bad. Later RJD


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

That blue-white light sure doesn't look period, does it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tamiya yellow on the LEDs? 

Greg


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick: Nice QSI sound video. 

Did you get the cover on for the QSI unit?

Love the Kool-Aid Aristo Man!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No way, but we will see, I'm going to change the caps on his board. If that does not fit, we will mod the cover. 

Greg


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Great video Nick. I think Aristocraft should be very proud that you did this and are showing it off on YouTube.
Looks and sounds great.
Let us know when you get your motors changed for the final thoughts on this baby.


Fred


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

Many thanks for sharing the great review information. I appreciate it very much. 

In looking at the track the PCC was running on, I assume it was .332. I am curious if .250 would look better given the smaller wheels and overall model size? 

Regards 
Gary


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

ALL trains look better on code 250, they look toy like on 332 is my humble opinion.


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, Thanks much for your efforts and sharing those with us. A comment or 2 on the actual sound. My memories may be somewhat faded, but I recall the sounds of PCC being more humming and grinding. I don't recall blower noise being a big part at all. They were not terribly loud, and here we run in to difficulty with scale sound. At the distances represented by where we stand on our garden railroads, at those scale distances probably the most recognized sound would be the rumbling on the tracks. Personally I would go with the low volume. 


Check out some Youtube videos of PCC trolleys. But be careful of the sounds of the PCCs that have been heavily rebuilt over the years. They do have blowers, airconditioners and heavier motors. By and large it comes down to a matter of personal taste. Realistic sound could probably be reproduced by some bad gear noise from a motor block that has not been broken in. But we like our trains loud. It will be interesting to see how the sounds evolve. Bells and whistles were pretty much unique to individual traction companies. I recall mostly a couple "clangs". But that may be different on your car. PCC sound is probably worthy of an entire separate thread. 

Thanks for sharing your efforts. 


Tom


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

[*]First...I'd throw the conductor off the car...he's a LOUD mouth...and after his second "all aboard" (where he's obviously being goosed), there's no "stop that" or anything that indicates he minded.
[/list][*]Second...I cut the line to the bell clanger so it couldn't ring (Did PCC's really have bells?...I thought they had a horn, like a car)[/list][*]Third...I would have thought the powered sound from the car would be more hum than staccato. Does anyone make a sound file for an electric vehicle at all?
[/list][*]Adding people to the car "makes it"...what a change!!![/list][*]The trucks to me sound like an old Maytag washer...noisy. This is a car that MUST have a sound system IMHO.[/list]Really nice work Nick...she's a beauty.


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## Lawrence (Dec 27, 2007)

I noticed the axle wheels flanges, back to back, were too wide. 
I carefully removed one of the wheels from the “longer” part of the plastic piece, the wheel farthest away from the gear on the plastic piece in order to begin modifying the clearance issue. 
I used a Dremel cutoff wheel #420 thickness, as a reference for the amount to be cut off from both the ends of the wheel axle and the longer part of the plastic piece. Don’t loose the plastic spacer from inside the plastic piece, whereas this is an insulator. 

Don’t remove too much material, just the width of the cutoff wheel…. Whereas gear clearances will become as issue! 
After modifying the pieces, the wheel clearance issue is resolved. 

I have also decided to change out the front surface mount LED with a pure white LED, #5050-PW6000, purchased from…superbrightleds.com…as well as the rear brake lights with #RL5-R3545 red LED. Resistance to be determined to adjust intensity. 

Another problem was proper electrical contact between the copper bus to bearing contact on the wheel axle. 
The spring action of the copper bus did not move freely within the groove to make good contact with the bearing. I made adjustments to free up the movement of the copper bus. 

A Sharpie black pen was used to paint over the metal plates on top of the motor trucks and the voltage regulator tab to match the black plating. It would be nice if AC used black sleeve instead of white sleeve to cover the wiring to the motors. 

I too, have experienced dirt build up on the wheels after several runs on about 500 feet of track, which has been cleaned. During nighttime, I noticed small amounts of arcing at the wheels of the PCC and the only current draw is 700 mils at 18 VDC/VAC. I have modified this unit to operate on AC or DC two rail operation incorporating a Lionel solid state E unit, 5 volt regulation to the switching transistors, to drive the coils of small relays to switch polarity. One should be familiar with electronics to perform these modifications…. if not familiar, damage can occur to the circuit boards! 

Overhead contact wire voltage polarity remains the same. The PCC will conduct regardless of rail polarity when going through a reverse loop. I utilize my own reverse polarity method…works fine for the past 20 years. However the reverse unit in the video seems to be a lot less complicated. 

Where can I purchase one of these reversing units?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike. Maybe Phoenix makes one but for us folks using QSI we have to improvise such as Nick did. My next project now that I have the Green Hornet one. 

Jerry fine using 250 if your into the less than modern trains. now days Railroad use bigger rail sizes so 332 is the way to go to stay up with the times. Later RJD


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## Lawrence (Dec 27, 2007)

Nicholas Savatgy, 

I tried to send you a message, but the You Tube video was in the way of the text window. 
What is the model of the reversing unit for the loops? 

Thanks, 

Larry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Lawrence: I have a number of questions, so please bear with me. 

First you said the "axle wheels flanges" back to back were too wide. Do you mean the back to back measurement of the wheelsets was too wide? If so, what is your spec to be correct? 

If you did not mean that, did you mean the wheel flange thickness was too thick? I'm sure that this is true also, and with many Aristo locos, getting the correct back to back makes it impossible to get the right gauge (now I am talking to the NMRA target values, not within the tolerances). 

It seems as though you pulled an axle out of one side of the plastic gear carrier, took a few thousandths off both the axle end and the plastic carrier and reassembled, is my understanding correct? 

Lastly, on the reversing unit, the system shown is DCC and this is the typical use for a DCC autoreverser, many companies make them and they automatically correct the polarity with no moving parts or contacts. 

Regards, Greg


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## Lawrence (Dec 27, 2007)

Greg, 

I meant back to back wheelsets were too wide. I used Gary Raymond wheelsets as a reference. 

I removed 1 mm from both the wheel axle end and the longer plastic end away from the gear. 

I'm not using DCC as of yet. I utilize IR drop across four diodes. Two in series in one direction and two more in series the other direction, soldered in parrallel. Gives a voltage drop of 1.4 volts when conducting, be it AC or DC. 
The locos on my layout use full wave bridges (unless the manufacturer has made provisions for either AC/DC operation) onboard to provide a DC output to various control circuits. So, now one can see it makes no difference which track polarity is present. 

There are two isolated blocks (back to back) of sufficent length to allow for speed into the detection sections without causing a short circuit...detection has to switch the polarity before a possible short. These blocks are seperated in the middle with two insulators for each rail and..... one additional insulator at the ends of these blocks on one rail side only to isolate track power.This is the side that has the diodes across the insulators being fed from the track power or a common bus. 

I use two DC optoisolators, in parrallel for detection. The opto input diodes are crossed wired to allow for the AC/DC input. The outputs of the optoislators are isolated via a diode from each output to a common point for signaling. 
The logic signal then connects to a timer circuit, which, once triggred, has a delay of 10 seconds to make up for intermittent contacts of the wheels. The timer output switches a DPDT relay, crossed wired to change the track polarity. 
I use the dogbone scheme in the long run for my layout. There must be current detected from wheel sets to trigger this system. If one uses only a loco and then ten plastic wheeled cars, detection will stop until there is another wheel set which conducts current. 

Be sure the loop is long enough to prevent a mishap such as a crash. 

It is by virtue of the current draw the polarity reverses. Note, the blocks must be raised up away from the ground, on gravel to allow for drainage to prevent soil contamination which has a conductive nature, causing false triggering of detection. 

Distilled water, rainwater, snow or non-contaminated ice is not conductive. Do not hose off the detection sections or use salt to melt ice, this will cause a false detection to occur. Pour alcohol on the detection block sections to dissolve ice formations. 

I hope I haven't confused the readers with my so called technical writings. 

Regards, 

Larry


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## Lawrence (Dec 27, 2007)

Opps, 

I'm getting tired....I forgot, there are two more insulators at the other end of the reversing loop to isolate the rails. This is where the relay contacts wires connect, one pair on one side of the rails and the other pair on the other side of the rails.


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## Lawrence (Dec 27, 2007)

Members, 

I ran my PCC for 4 hours after cleaning my stainless steel track and lo and behold, the black stuff accumulated on the wheels causing intermittent contact and a jerky motor movement. 
Why didn't AC use stainless steel wheels for pick up? Perhaps there are certain metals that are best for current pick up? What causes this build up and what is the bi-product and remedy? 
I would like to enjoy watching the PCC run smoothly. 
Perhaps running a track cleaner with a small cloth that doesn't snag at joints, etc, across the rails would help to remove some debris. 

Larry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info Larry, interesting stuff, I enjoyed reading your post. 

Yes, Aristo has considered better wheels, and these seem to be worse than the normal Aristo type. Most are either cnc machines mild steel with a plating (diesels) or cast alloy plated. None of the Aristo platings are great, but at least they are plated. 

These wheels seem to be somewhat rough cast and not plated, and your reports of the wheels getting carbon accumulations are not unique, even for such a new product. 

My belief is that the rough casting accumulates carbon buildup faster than the plated surfaces. 

Do your wheels appear to have any plating on them? 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg: It appears there is no plateing on the wheels. They look totally black same as my Rail bus I got Axel. They tend to collect dirt fairly easily. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm a big QSI fan but I rode PCC cars all the time in college in Philly, and they didn't sound like that, they were much more quiet and no blower.

For anyone who's interested, there's a really excellent PCC sound file available for digitrax. You can hear it at this page (http://fnbcreations.net/projects.htm). It's really well done.


The Digitrax DH465 decoder is capable of handling the PCC car, and the sfx004 "soundbug" plugs into it. The two together are well under 100 bucks. Sound is good--not as good as QSI, and not as loud, but it's loud enough for outdoors and the soundfile itself is much more accurate. I currently have locos running this combination, a bachmann thomas and an LGB 0-4-0, and they work very well. 


The HD465 won't do plug and play, but it's a VERY small decoder and would easily fit inside the cover. You can drive a larger 8 ohm speaker with no trouble


DH465 
SFX004 

That would be about 85-90 bucks for sound that's very close to prototype. IMHO QSI's superior qualities are kind of wasted on a PCC car


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I have a PCC coming on Thursday and a DH465/SFX004 and the PCC sound file waiting for it. 

Just a note on the wheels. I have some recent experience with some high miles HO locos made by Kato. These locos ran poorly. After 10 or 15 minutes of running, they would sputter badly, after 30 min, they would just not run. The wheels were coated with black gunk that left thick black streaks on an alcohol soaked paper towel. New Kato locos virtually never need cleaning at all. The wheels are plated brass. 

The older locos had so many miles that the plating had simply be worn off leaving a roughened bare brass surface. After replacing the worn bare brass wheels with new Kato wheels, the locos ran just like new ones. 

This gunk is black and appears to be organic as it is soluble in alcohol. Oxides of brass would not come off in alcohol. My theory is that the rough wheels actually scrape the organic crud up off the track and then pack it into the roughened surface until there is enough to hold the wheel off the track. Due to the curves and hard axles, some wheels MUST slip allowing the scraping action. 

I've had black crud that accumulated on my indoor large scale track analyzed many years ago. The analysis came back as a mixture of plastics. This material looked and felt different from the crud on the HO track. It had finite thickness and could be scraped off with a knife resulting in actual particles of the crud. The large scale stuff formed a narrow hard ridge and didn't clean up well with alcohol. It turned out that it was plastic abrading off Bachmann and LGB plastic wheels. When ALL the plastic wheels were scrapped and replaced with metal, that crud went away, never to return. 

The source of the softer black film (actually not visible to the eye while it is on the track) on the HO track is not certain, but I suspect that it is normal indoor dust that has been burnt onto the track by the passing of trains. The HO club where this occurs does not allow plastic wheels so that isn't the source. If I rub my fingers on track that hasn't been cleaned in a couple of weeks, a similar appearing black crud will deposit onto my finger tips. 

The PCC wheels may be acting like the worn brass wheels. The roughness allows it to abrade whatever is on the track and pack it onto the wheels. I'll be watching for this when my PCC arrives.


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Guys,

Thanks for all the positive input on the PCC Car.

It was fun to do.

Now to answer a few Questions

As i said from the beginning of this project,

This car was bought soley to do shows with

I have no interest in running this type train on my own layout.

QSI has no sounds for this as of yet and i wanted something to put in it that was close.

The motor, bell, and All a board were purposely turned all the way up so you could hear it at the shows.

As you know, when at shows you have a lot of noise, Kids Mothers and Fathers screaming yelling talking and its hard to hear anything over that. 


I also wanted a custom file that was kid friendly thats why i did it that way.

I didnt know the blower was still turned on when i down loaded the file, I will have to go back

and turn it off as it wasnt supposed to be in there

QSI rite know is the only DCC card i will use. The price difference between QSI and others is so small that its not worth it for me to run any other DCC card rite now.


Also you cant load a custom WAV file into a sound bug.


The sounds are Awsome and im Happy With It

Remember was bought for doing shows, nothing else at this point.


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Lawrence on 16 Jan 2011 05:09 PM 
Nicholas Savatgy, 

I tried to send you a message, but the You Tube video was in the way of the text window. 
What is the model of the reversing unit for the loops? 

Thanks, 

Larry 




Larry,

The reversing unit is one of Tonys toy exchanges unit.

About $50.00

I was very impressed with your posts

Its great having new blood around here










to break up the old mumbo jumbo............Welcome to the Forum.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Lwnote. The web sites you list are invalid. Will not come up. Later RJD


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

We just received our trolley today so we put down some lgb track with r1 curves.My big concern was that how the trolley would run on the r1 curves The trolley ran ok on the r1 curves. We will set up a seperate set of track on our out doors layout to run the trolley on. The trolley will not fit in with our layout which is western back in the 1930s but we like trolleys and we will add track about eigthy ft that will be just for the trolley. Nick will you have your trolley ay york?


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## Lawrence (Dec 27, 2007)

I have an idea. 

I noticed the magnetic brake bars at the bottom of the plastic castings between the axles. 

Perhaps there may be a way to shave some material off the bottoms and add some type of cleaning pad to same, providing enough clearance between the pad and rail, to help keep the track clean. 

Next, the bottom part of the magnetic brake bar would have to be seperated from the molding and suspended via two small pins (needle shafts) with a stop at the top of the pins to prevent the assembly from falling off. 

Small holes would have to be drilled into the center of the vertical springs on the casting, perpendicular to the bar. 

Just the weight of these pad assemblies should not cause excessive drag on the rails. 

What do the members think of this idea? And would AC be interested in this concept?


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick will you have your trolley AT york?


----------



## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking forward to your always-valuable report on the PCC, George. Definitely will be taken into consideration before I go ahead and make the purchase of one or more of these cars.


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By pete on 17 Jan 2011 04:18 PM 
Nick will you have your trolley AT york? 
Pete,

Maybe, lets see how it does at our up coming show in a couple of weeks.

Should get some good run time on her.... 20 hours or so.

Hopefully Aristocraft will come thru on there motor blocks for me by next week.

I know many peole at the York show so maybe i can get some run time.

To be Honest i'd rather run my Hudsons though.


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You can add custom wav files to a soundbug


----------



## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

This You Tube video has some good PCC sounds. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZtrPKIydvw&feature=related 


Regards 
Gary


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks Gary,

These thing really drove fast, didnt they.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

More like Quick, jack rabbit starts and a race for a block or two then stop. 

Brings back memories of ozone.... the smell of electric motors. 

I hated seeing those electric busses, they sped up the demise of trolleys. 

John


----------



## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Lawrence, I think you have an excellent idea there. You'd probably want some sort of adhesive-backed pad so they could be peeled off and replaced with fresh ones every so many miles.

And there's even a prototype for the idea. About a half-dozen of the Pittsburgh Rwys interurban PCC cars had a "track cleaner" circuit added that would apply about 10% power to the rail brakes. The motorman was supposed to turn them on when operating thru the single track in "the Valley" in an effort to keep the rail polished for better operation of the signal system.


----------



## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 17 Jan 2011 11:00 AM 
Guys,

Thanks for all the positive input on the PCC Car.

It was fun to do.

Now to answer a few Questions

As i said from the beginning of this project,

This car was bought soley to do shows with

I have no interest in running this type train on my own layout.

QSI has no sounds for this as of yet and i wanted something to put in it that was close.

The motor, bell, and All a board were purposely turned all the way up so you could hear it at the shows.

As you know, when at shows you have a lot of noise, Kids Mothers and Fathers screaming yelling talking and its hard to hear anything over that. 


I also wanted a custom file that was kid friendly thats why i did it that way.

I didnt know the blower was still turned on when i down loaded the file, I will have to go back

and turn it off as it wasnt supposed to be in there

QSI rite know is the only DCC card i will use. The price difference between QSI and others is so small that its not worth it for me to run any other DCC card rite now.


Also you cant load a custom WAV file into a sound bug.


The sounds are Awsome and im Happy With It

Remember was bought for doing shows, nothing else at this point. 










.........................................................................................

Boy Nickie... That is some nice work you did.. BUT,,,,,,,,,,, Nickie, Nickie, Nickie.. Those darn doors are not opening???? People waiting to get off.......You get them onboard and hold them until they use up all of there fare money. 


What's that about???


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Well Sir,

You know how to make them work dont you...............









Maybe my PCC car should make a stop in Caly after Gregs done with it.


----------



## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 18 Jan 2011 04:51 PM 
Well Sir,

You know how to make them work dont you...............









Maybe my PCC car should make a stop in Caly after Gregs done with it.









Dear Sir.
laf.... Not sure how PCC/trolleys doors work, but if this helps, I could cut the door out and install a shower curtains over the hole with a push button to turn on a fan to blow the curtains outward so passengers can slide by to get off & on....


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By noelw on 18 Jan 2011 06:31 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 18 Jan 2011 04:51 PM 
Well Sir,

You know how to make them work dont you...............









Maybe my PCC car should make a stop in Caly after Gregs done with it.









Dear Sir.
laf.... Not sure how PCC/trolleys doors work, but if this helps, I could cut the door out and install a shower curtains over the hole with a push button to turn on a fan to blow the curtains outward so passengers can slide by to get off & on....










Shower curtaiins ??????

Nicky like Shower curtains HE HE HE


----------



## Andrewcp (Apr 12, 2010)

where did you get your people from?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Look at Nick's post on 7 January back near the beginning of this thread. 

Greg


----------



## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By GaryY on 17 Jan 2011 06:46 PM 
This You Tube video has some good PCC sounds. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZtrPKIydvw&feature=related 


Regards 
Gary 
Gary, thanks for the video. It brings back memories.

I grew up in San Francisco and rode SF-Muni all the time in the 1950s through '60s.

Before BART was built and was underground along with SF-Muni's trolleys under Market street, the PCC cars (and old heavyweights) would all go on the surface of Market street and then they would enter the long tunnel at Castro street (heading west), then emerge at West Portal on the other end. At the high point in the tunnel is Forest Hill Station where you could use an elevator to get to the surface. 

I recall taking the PCC cars from Forest Hill Station going east bound toward Market and Castro streets, and sometimes they would go so fast on that downgrade (easily over 60 mph) they would rock noticeably. Every now and then there would be an accident (rear ender with another trolley stopped on Castro st.) where the track use to curve on Market st. as it emerged out of the tunnel.

The "F" Market street line was reintroduced with tracks put back down on the surface of Market street sometime after the BART construction. Eventually, SF-Muni acquired all those different trolleys (not just PCC cars) in liveries that use to be from other localities, including some from foreign countries.

-Ted


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

$199.99 at Trainworld, just got the email "flyer" today... 

Robert


----------



## Lawrence (Dec 27, 2007)

Members, 

I been looking for diagrams or schematics of how does a single switch point activate from the "current" draw section of the trolley contact wire to the magnetic/motor solenoid? 

Any links? 

Larry


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

My PCC arrived and, predictably, I've written it up. 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips12/pcc_tips.html


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

George, when you have some time, can you measure the back to back, flange depth and thickness, and tread diameter and width? 

Also, when the pole is used for power pickup, is the other "side" of the circuit both rails, or one? 

Thanks, Greg


----------



## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks George !!


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the article, George. Very comprehensive and informative. 

I just received an SFO model and it runs very nicely on my "to and fro" trolley lines. I like your solution to dimming the LED's. 

What size figures did you order????


----------



## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

As usual, George, a very fine and comprehensive review. Thanks very much!


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Stan, the 1:30 figures that Nick used. Link maybe in this thread


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan here is where Nick got them. I think it list the scale. Later RJD

http://cgi.ebay.com/100-pcs-Model-T...704360?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3ca7875e68


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

I got some unpainted figures a while back from this place. Decent quality, and shipped directly from Hong Kong!!


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Greg, dimensions have been added to the web site. I bought a book this weekend that describes THIS VERY CAR in pretty good detail so now I know that it is pretty close to 1/29 scale except for the gauge. The LARy is 42". 

I put the jumper plug back in and tried to measure for continuity, the readings were weird and didn't make sense. Also, when switched to Overhead, it still runs from the track so that the issue of returning on BOTH rails is settled.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

With the jumper removed and a QSI installed the brake light functions on Nick's car. I don't believe he has tested the pole. 

Yes, I agree, something not exactly on running from pole... 

Thanks for the info George! 

Greg


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the information, George and for the link, RJ...


----------



## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Hey Nick any update on the QSI install fix? 

Ron


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll be doing the fix... Nick is going to ship the car to me. 

He's not going to do that until he resolves his poor running issue... and it's not the wobbling wheels, as Aristo has misinterpreted, it's the uneven running that you can hear on his video. Since it does this on rollers, it's apparently not the same as George experienced on his PCC, where the uneven running is basically a mismatch between motors. 

Regards, Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Further, the uneven SOUND made by the gearing doesn't have a significant impact on the way it runs. It responds to the sound slightly, but not to the degree that Nick's video showed.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry, was not meaning to confuse.. your PCC has some bucking, Nick's runs unevenly, on rollers or track, and the uneven running keeps pace with the tempo of the grinding sounds. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Anyone run their new PCC trolley(s) on code 250 track ? Or don't bother, best/better/only for 332 ? 

A couple months bk i accidentally adopted 105' (20straight lengths) of used AMS39-101, and ever since was trying to 'flip' it to a more appreciative home (as in hard core NG enthusiast up here) . . NOW I'm thinking maybe when I'm done with new fenceline this spring, use this track (as a elevated trolley line along the "propertyline"), which I believe is the best use of 250 since the hold downs (sim'spikes) would definitely not like to be walked on like 332 can be when young and on fairly solid roadbase !? Of course will have to save the $$ for a PCC trolley, L brackets for fastening to the fenceposts, intermediate support channel . . . LOL  


thanks for any info, 

doug c


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

The PCC seems to be more sensitive to stuff near the rails than other stuff. It rocks at spots where some ballast got near a rail. The flange isn't actually larger than other LS flanges so I don't know what the issue really is. Smaller rail would likely make this worse.


----------



## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Well i bit the bullet and ordered one,
My Dealer had all RD names in stock.
I saw on they Aristocraft forum that they were sold out
This is NOT true, Dealers have plenty.
I will update you guys when i receive mine.









Fred.


----------



## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Fred, 
I believe that the post by Lewis on the Aristocraft Forum said that Aristo was sold out, not the dealers. Although one person at the Springfield show was reported to have purchased SIX of them. Must be a mass transit modeller! 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

True, it was misleading, but true what was said on the Aristo site. Aristo tries (and I don't blame them) to ship out all new locos and cars as soon as possible. Nothing wrong with that. 

But the implication that there are no more because they are "all out" does not mean that the dealers don't have them. 

But in this case, my understanding is that there were only 80 of each roadname made, as opposed to the typical 100. 

Regards, Greg


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Always a great thing to hear, the manufacturer clears out their warehouse of their latest production item ! For them it means a product that certain consumers want and subsequently the manufacturer has said (in this case) willl be doing a second run asap and a third run of new 'roads' (with the other 2 Cdn 'roads') on that list ! If the rumours are true they slightly low-balled their production numbers for the first run, kudos to them in the (seemingly) still lingering poor u.s. economic times they could not be sure of how well the G-gauge consumer (directly or thru their fave reseller) would react. 

doug c 


p.s. thanks george for the feedback on the unit indicating a a bit of lightness or is that a . . . lack of surefoot-it-ness







it will be at least a yr. before my idea becomes fact so maybe a cure will come about by then !


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The comment about lower production numbers was not meant as a negative, it was meant to help supplement information about the "real" availability of the product from dealers. 

I'd much rather Aristo sold out, then not sell out and have a bad taste in their mouths and not want to produce that model again. For about 4 years in a row Lewis told me he was very disappointed in the sales of the Mikado and Mallet and would not produce them again. When I asked why he thought sales were poor, he was convinced that it was because they were too big and would not work on the curved of many layouts. (Now history and all the saved posts in the forums tell a different story, tremendous problems with slipped drivers often causing lots of damage to running gear and gearboxes). 

Now, the Mallet and Pacific will be reissued, and I hope they sell well, so we don't have this situation again. I'm all for Aristo selling like hotcakes. 

Regards, Greg


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

For those of you who have decided to become traction magnates, I recommend the largescaletrolley form on Ya-hoo. Lots of good tips from traction modelers, good pictures and many folks willing to share experience. And if you're serious about erecting trolley wire for your PCC, lots of help in that area as well.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

I, too, hope Aristo does very well with the PCC. I'm planning to purchase a couple of versions, but will wait for the second run so any first production glitches (if indeed there are any) can be worked out. I've waited this long (I'm primarily a traction enthusiast and have all the LGB U.S.-style cars, along with a number of Hartland models), and don't mind being patient. I learned to exercise some patience by being in the O gauge world in recent years.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, wait much more and you will need to get one from the next run, supposedly 6 months away. The success of the PCC (successful definitely from Aristo's point of view) has already secured a second run. 

Since this motor block is supposed to be the foundation for the S1 switcher that Lewis has been mentioning for some years, I'm glad on both fronts. 

My only concern is the motors, the PCC does not pull anything. You do expect a switcher to pull a load. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Well i received my PCC car today,
I was going to post about it on this thread
and the other PCC thread,
But it seems all the origanal poster over there wants to 
due is brag about how he was the 1st to post
about a PCC car and didnt even own one at the time.









Anyways i ran mine today and it does have the wobble in the wheel issues for sure,
but seems to run OK.
I like the paint job nice and clean 
But dont care for the blue LEDs
i will need to cover them with some paint.

Thanks to Nick and Goerge for doing a great job
in reveiwing these and telling the truth.
And not just trying to sell me a car with part #s without even
owning it 1st or AVOIDING hard questions when asked.


Fred


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So Fred, no surging when running slow or medium? 

One thing you might check is wheel gauge, some people have reported the car "wobbling" and there are some wheelsets with apparently overly wide gauge. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

The wheel gauge on mine is a little wide, sb 1.575 and is closer to 1.59. It shows as overgauge on an Aristo wheel gauge. This might be some of the issue, those sections of track may be just a bit narrower than the car can handle.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And, a lot of sectional track is out of gauge, my 10' diameter track is all tight gauge. Noticed this when my Northern tried to walk up out of the rails. 

Greg


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I only notice one wheel having a slight wobble. Have not had time to set up out doors and run. Slight gear box noise but no real run time as yet. Later RJD


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll be interested on how the wheel material performs. George has already established the friction is much greater with his 14 degree hillclimb. I hope the surface does not trap a lot of goop. 

Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

so far, it hasn't seemed to have loaded up with crud. Time will tell


----------



## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03 Feb 2011 02:47 PM 
Well, wait much more and you will need to get one from the next run, supposedly 6 months away. The success of the PCC (successful definitely from Aristo's point of view) has already secured a second run....

That definitely is good to hear!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, after talking to several retailers, the PCC car has been very popular. 

To generalize, the new drive systems seem to be ok, except Nick's which definitely has problems. The wheel wobble has been exhibited on most units, but seems not to affect running significantly. The socket was poorly done, with the jumper needing to be bent over or removed, and not allowing enough space (there is a specification of room supplied) for the QSI, and barely enough for the Revo. (you cannot tell me that Aristo is ignorant of the other products using their socket). 

The flanges on the wheels are too thick, and possibly a little deeper than needed, and the wheel gauge is usually off. 

The looks are very nice, don't play with the doors too much, and the lights too bright and wrong color. 

That would be my "quick take" on the product. 

Things that will be interesting to watch long term: wheel wear/conductivity, motor longevity, and how the gearbox stands up over time. I suspect the last 2 will be fine in the PCC, but I'm a little concerned about using them in the S1 switcher that Aristo has promised, where the loads will be much greater. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Greg any update on the QSI install?

I have held of buying on because of the problem.

Ron


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Hold your water Sir,

Im in the process of shipping it to him.

I wanted to run it at this weekends show,

But we had to cancel due to the weather


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By fred j on 03 Feb 2011 07:04 PM 
Well i received my PCC car today,
I was going to post about it on this thread
and the other PCC thread,
But it seems all the origanal poster over there wants to 
due is brag about how he was the 1st to post
about a PCC car and didnt even own one at the time.









Anyways i ran mine today and it does have the wobble in the wheel issues for sure,
but seems to run OK.
I like the paint job nice and clean 
But dont care for the blue LEDs
i will need to cover them with some paint.

Thanks to Nick and Goerge for doing a great job
in reveiwing these and telling the truth.
And not just trying to sell me a car with part #s without even
owning it 1st or AVOIDING hard questions when asked.


Fred 


Fred,

Im glad you receive your car and are happy with it,

The paint and finish are great.

The running issues still continue 


I spoke with Aristo and they said they would replace the trucks.

Now they have back pedaled and said this is normal operation ? and will not replace them.


As far as your other comments im being Quiet for now,


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ron, it can be made to fit, but the first whack at it Nick did, still leaves it where the cover will not fit back on. I'm going to try some ideas Nick and I had. 

I'd buy it and figure the worst case is to make another cover. Remember that I believe there are holes in the cover underneath, so even with the cover on, it's not protected from the elements in any case. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks for the info Nick,

Any ways ive been running my PCC
car having some derailment issues.
About every 3rd or 4 th time around the track
it comes flying off.

Never in the same spot either.
Is there a way to ( EASY) to tighten
up the guage of the wheels.
For the life of me cant understand why
when i buy something from Aristocraft it
doesnt work without issues !!!!!!!

Is it just me ?

Fred


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

There does not appear to be an easy way.... yet. Working on it. See PCC page updates by tomorrow.


----------



## bcer960 (Dec 27, 2007)

Has anyone figured out the minimum turning radius?? 

Ray


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

it handles 24" diameter with some truck rotation left over BUT the drag is really really high. This is probably an impact of overgauge wheelsets and the high traction wheel material.


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Big thank to Greg E.


I sent my PCC car to him ans he was able to turn 


the wheels down and make them round.

He also move somethings on the stock Aristo Board to make

the QSI fit lower in the Chassis.


He also made the Lights look better by tinting them to a amber color.


Thanks Greg for workin on it







when Aristo wouldnt...........









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogqrs-AEsS4


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Let's keep the personal attacks and innuendos out of the discussion gentlemen. Thx.


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

With the wheels regauged it does better on 24" track, but it is still not real good. The regauging process does eliminate the issue of slightly undergauge track and it also fixes the issue of the drag increasing in 4' (R1) track curves. 

see http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips12/pcc_tips.html


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dwight, to be fair, Aristo (one person) promised to replace the trucks on Nick's PCC... after a while, Aristo (another person) said they would not and that there was nothing wrong with his PCC. I cannot see what was personal here except the failed promise to Nick.

There were several things "wrong" with his PCC and I cannot say which thing I did was the magic bullet, but it runs well now and was surging and noisy and derailed before. I only worked on the trucks and axles. 

There's nothing personal I see in Nick's post (perhaps you just meant to warn not to go there), and I submit the GG-1 thread by Ron Bodnar where he recounts Charles Ro Jr. reneging on his promise to repair his GG-1. This thread was allowed to move to entropy, and it was WAY more personal and "attacking" than "Thanks Greg for workin on it when Aristo wouldnt........... " 

The refusal of Aristo to work on it is factual. I present the information and method to repair on my web site. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. I agree no personal attacks so I hope none follow.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 17 Mar 2011 10:18 PM 
There's nothing personal I see in Nick's post (perhaps you just meant to warn not to go there), 

Perhaps that's because I did some selective editing before you saw it, and perhaps you should trust my judgement. I've been doing this far longer than you have (with all due respect).


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, I can believe that, but how was I to know? My ESP meter is down to zero apparently.







(you are supposed to laugh and cut me some slack here) 

Yeah, I've only been moderating forums since 2003, I'm sure you have me beat... 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. back on the subject of the PCC car, I am working on a second PCC car, and will be trying out significantly reduced flange depth, will keep the data flowing.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, I can believe that, but how was I to know? My ESP meter is down to zero apparently.
That's where the "trust" part comes in isn't it?








(you are supposed to laugh and cut me some slack here) 
Ok.







Better?


----------



## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 18 Mar 2011 02:15 PM 
OK, I can believe that, but how was I to know? My ESP meter is down to zero apparently.
That's where the "trust" part comes in isn't it?








(you are supposed to laugh and cut me some slack here) 
Ok.







Better?









Hate to be stuppied or something, but what the heck is a ESP Meter.. Is that something I need on my Outdoor Main R.R. Console to keep guys from running in to each other and before they kick some ones train into the pond? 
Ok someone open up the Swing Bridge and go have a Hot doggie and say sorry that was a Aristo. Do I need a ESP Meter????


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't have and ESP Meter, but I do have ESPN! 

Thanks! Robert


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

I thought I' d give a up date on my PCC Car while this thread was up. I can't seem to keep it on the tracks, it runs for 5 to 10 minutes and the
derails every time. The guage on the wheels is way off i know, I called Aristocraft and told them about the issue and all they would say is that they never 
heard of any problems with the PCC Car. 

I'm a little fustrated that i spent all this money on it and it doesnt work properly and Aristo cant or wont fix it. This REALLY STINKS.
I guess i will have to look for someone to turn the wheels down as others have done.
I don't think I will be buying anything more from Aristocraft if this is the kind of products they produce on a regular baisis.

Fred


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Fred, fixing the gauge is easy. All you need is some hand tools. If the thing hops on your track, this is a likely source of derailments. 

see either Greg's site or mine (his linked there) 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips12/pcc_tips.html


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Two questions...

What did you use for figures?
Did you cut some of them down, so as to appear seated?


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I bought the figures on eBay for about $48 for 100 inc shipping. Search for 1:30 scale figures. You'll find several listings 

I used some of the seated ones and cut some standing ones down.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Fred, that's very interesting... I've been running my PCC on a loop with 4 foot diameter curves for quite a while and on a "to and fro" trolley line for 4-5 days straight without incident.

Mine is a great runner. Put people (riders) and sound in it and it runs like a champ. 

A point of interest posted on the Aristo Forum at noon today EDT...

Dear All,

We got an early report that the PCC did not have round wheels and we checked and they were well within our specs and had no running problems. We had run a few for months without a glitch and by the time we got any other comments they we all sold out.

We've had some more recent comments that the gauging was not correct and there seems to be a variation in production. None of the ones we checked had that condition, but if you have one that does just e-mail me at [/i]_[email protected]_ and we will send a pickup tag from UPS and fix the gauging.[/i]_

_Obviously, in the second run there will be a q.c. check on this point that we did not specify as the early samples were right on a back to back wheel measurement at our specified 39.8mm to 40mm. 

We apologize if you've had any working difficulty with the PCC coming off the track, but we will make it right!

All the best,

Lewis Polk

The PCC motor is an H.O. motor from Sanda Kan that has been long used in H.O. loco from the major brands. We needed this smaller motor due to the space requirements of this low profile loco.

The lighting is the same LED arrangement from the RDC-3, which was received with much acclaim. We will try to use a golden color LED on the next run, but personally I think the super bright white shows off the interior much better. We will look at the golden color option again and then make a final decision. [/i]


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom i made the mistake of ordering 1/24 scale and they were all to large. Had to go to surgery and buzz off their legs. I think stan used 1/32 and they fit alot better. Look at older pages and stan put the ebay site where you will find them. They come from china.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom go to stans thread and go to page two and you will find the email address for ebay.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

UMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Posted on page 1 here.


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## FRedner (Mar 20, 2011)

Interesting post Stan.


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

I dropped off my PCC Car to Nick at the show, He offered to help me fix it now that he has is Garage set up and will give it back to me in a few weeks.
Thanks for offering Nick. Thats what i like about this site, people seem to go out of there way to be helpful to each other.


Thank You
Fred


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Hi,
Just an update, I received my PCC Car back from Nick this weekend at the NY show they were doing and it now runs great .

Nice and smooth, Nick and his Club members let me run it for a while at there display, and it ran perfect.
Thanks Nick, Now all i need to do is to get some of those little people to put into it and i will be set.
I also called Nick today to thank him for helping me with it and His Girlfreind told me he was in the Hospital, I hope all is well and Thank you again. 

This Forum and its Members are great.

Fred


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Your welcome Fred, Glad you liked it and it was nice to meet you and your wife.









Heard you had some fun around here with a couple of the KoolAders while i was gone.










Dont worry im back now that wont happen again i CAN assure you of that............










Thankfully the post was saved for me and i'l respond to it shortly you can be sure.

You BETCHA............LOL...........SUGAR SUGAR SUGAR


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, the others I have worked on myself are all running smoothly, the picture below was a friend's unit where trying to adjust the back to back resulted in cracks in the plastic gear castings.

After truing the wheel surfaces (eliminating wobble) and machining the backs (to correct overly thick flanges that would not allow proper gauging) it runs smoothly, like your's Nick.

More details on my site.










Greg


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Yowser ! Those look like heavy duty axles ! 

Too bad some wheels need some seemingly major facelifts done, but shucks ehhhhhh, my 1:1 2008 (american built) CUV req'd more tweaking than that (still on warranty), tooo. Which cost the manufacturer at least a couple grand in parts and labour !!


doug c


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