# Cab Command Radio Control



## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

The Cab Command radio control system featuring Back-EMF for low speed control is almost ready for production. Kits will range from DIY solder savvy hobbyist focused to easy to assemble plug-n-play. Pricing and on-line ordering should be available later this week.

For more information please go to http://www.cabcommand.com

The detailed Operations Manual available on-line. It is a PDF approximately 2 Meg in size. The assembly manual will be available later this week as well as a very detailed product comparison sheet. Additional videos will also be linked there.

Russ McIntire
Cab Command


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Russ, looks good so far!!!

Ed


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Thanks Ed. I've put up the transmitter assembly manual on the website too. I plan on having the other manuals up by end of week. 

It was great finally meeting you at the last FGRS meeting and I really have appreciated your feedback on the system. 

russ


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

I have the operations, transmitter assembly, and receiver assembly manuals on the web site. I made a few parts vendor changes and will have pricing and online ordering next week.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Russ,

It's really cruel to tease us this way without the pricing!









Rich


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

I plan on having ordering up this week. If you look closely, initial pricing is there.









It may be slightly different based on how I set up ordering, battery vs. track and other options. I'm getting my final receiver boards this week and expect no problems with them which means I can take orders (and fulfill them).


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Russ, 
As you have listed the MSRP prices for the other three types of systems in your comparisons, to be consistent you need to add that the pricing for the 6 channel 2.4 GHz TX & RX combos required for an ESC system, start as low as US$33 + air postage or US$45 in the USA. 
Also, that the fully assembled ESC pcb's start at US$75 MSRP (depending on the exchange rate), and not the US$100 you state.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Tony, 

I was trying to stick with ESCs that offered directional lighting and some accessory control to try to keep an apples to apples comparison where possible. I didn't see those features in the entry level ESCs. It is very difficult to keep comparisons even as all the systems are quite different and cater to different audiences. If I missed those features in the entry level ESCs I will correct. 

russ


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

If the entry level ESC's did not have such features then really they should not be included in the comparisons. Including the pictures. 
I would be comfortable if you compared the OMEGA series ESC's which do have the features you mentioned. 

Again, to be consistent, will you also include the prices for the 6 channel radios I have listed above? If not, why not? 

Given that every other system you compare does not require assembling components onto a pcb, are your systems all kits, or are they available ready to go without any component assembly? 

If your motor driver is an extra cost item to the receiver, what is the total cost for a fully assembled off the shelf TX + RX + Motor Driver combination to equip one loco? 

It would undoubtedly be very helpful for a potential Cab Command customer if they could compare the total cost of say, a BELTROL OMEGA OM-3 ESC plus the 6 channel R/C which would be no more than US$ 179. It would provide reversing constant brightness lighting and two sound triggers. How much would the equivalent components cost RTR for your system?

BTW, It is not necessary to have a separate TX for each loco. You can have as many RX's bound to one TX as you like. The extra RX's cost about US$15 each.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Russ, 

What sound cards will your system support? What additionally will be needed to add sound? I guess I am looking at total cost to implement full motion and sound control. Thanks 

Rich


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

I notice this system uses the 433MHz band. Just keep in mind that this is a very heavily used band. Garage door openers, keyless entry for cars, and tons of other low power equipment all share these few channels. It would be a real pain if the neighbor's garage door opener made your train do funny things. 
Also, that frequency is in the 70cm ham band. If there is a nearby ham station or repeater using a 100 watt (or more) 433 MHz auxiliary link channel, your receivers may be swamped and never hear your flea power transmitter. 

I had an acquaintance who used a 250 watt aux link on 433 to a mountain top repeater system. You could not use a garage door opener or remote car key for about a three block radius from his house. FCC rules says any low power device used on Part 15 must accept without complaint any interference from other stations on or near that frequency. There should be a statement regarding such in any device manual. 

Just a thought.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Any sound card that reacts to PWM speed input and supports direct bell/whistle triggers is supported. At this time I do not know of any sound card that is not DCC only, that will not work. I have tested with Phoenix P5 (with P5T), Dallee and Sierra. In fact for the Dallee sound card I have added a mechanism to automatically trigger the bell at start speeds if desired, a feature that is not provided in this low cost card. This feature will work for any sound card that allows triggered bell. 

For the sound cards mentioned, only wiring to the accessory ports is required, see the wiring diagrams in the manuals for details. For DCC sound cards a separate trigger board is required. I will be adding more connection schematics. 

russ


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Michael, 

Other broadcasts on 433 MHz will not cause the locomotives to react unless they send specific data packets that pass multiple error correcting algorithms for each packet. Also, the interference would need to be continual radiators at that frequency. Most Ham interference is from 447 MHz and sloppily spreading into other bands but I freely admit I am not a Ham expert and I know for a fact that Part 15, 433 MHz equipment must tolerate this interference. I bet your acquaintance was well liked within his neighborhood, if it were here he might even disrupt the Syfy channel (59) on cable, it operates at 433 MHz. 

Interestingly enough, Ham radio bands also broadcast in other Part 15 radio frequencies such as 900 MHz and 2.4 GHz and require the acceptance of this interference. Other Part 15 bands also have competition within by continuous broadcasters such as sound equipment and telephones. The Part 15, 433 MHz band does not allow continuous broadcast, only brief signal transmission, i.e. car pendants, weather station temperature remotes, etc. 

Like all devices under Part 15, in all of its bands, interference must be tolerated. 

By design my system tolerates interference. In fact it is designed to support multiple transmitters controlling different groups of locomotives all on the same 433 MHz band. Each transmitter uses a different "digital" channel, basically a key within the packets sent to guarantee that only their locomotives will respond to their individual signals.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Tony,

Thanks for the interest in my system. I broke up your questions with my answers below:

"If the entry level ESC's did not have such features then really they should not be included in the comparisons. Including the pictures. I would be comfortable if you compared the OMEGA series ESC's which do have the features you mentioned."

I did not compare the lower level ESCs thus the note of higher price on the comparison page and my attempt at apples-to-apples comparison of accessories and directional lighting. I will update the picture, it was from a Google search.


"Again, to be consistent, will you also include the prices for the 6 channel radios I have listed above? If not, why not?"

My review was not intended to delve into comparing various general purpose hobby radios systems.


"Given that every other system you compare does not require assembling components onto a pcb, are your systems all kits, or are they available ready to go without any component assembly?"

Assembly for a Cab Command system with all components purchased from Cab Command requires only plugging in 4 items, the two microcontrollers, one radio, and one motor controller, no soldering. It is about as difficult as sorting out setup of another manufacturer's general purpose hobby radio, identifying all the plugs for the receiver and plugging in the ESC wiring to the correct receiver channel outputs.


"If your motor driver is an extra cost item to the receiver, what is the total cost for a fully assembled off the shelf TX + RX + Motor Driver combination to equip one loco? "

For customers not afraid to solder, a cheaper receiver option is available and the motor controller can be purchased directly from the source at a substantial savings. The manual shows step by step how to do this.


"It would undoubtedly be very helpful for a potential Cab Command customer if they could compare the total cost of say, a BELTROL OMEGA OM-3 ESC plus the 6 channel R/C which would be no more than US$ 179. It would provide reversing constant brightness lighting and two sound triggers. How much would the equivalent components cost RTR for your system?"

It was not my intent to identify potential radios and prices that may or may not work with your system. In reading through some of the hobby radio manuals, I couldn't figure out how to switch between receivers on the fly. My system with transmitter and one receiver RTR for battery operation is $305, cheaper if a motor controller is directly purchased from the manufacturer. Additional battery configured receivers RTR are $145. The transmitter provides simultaneous control of 32 locomotives each with 6 accessories plus directional lighting while displaying locomotive information on a graphic LCD screen. The receiver incorporates Back EMF for slow speed operation, can support 14 Amps of continuous power. The transmitter is purpose built for multi-train operation, right down to the familiar rotary throttle. It is difficult as I noted to equally compare the systems as they are intended for such different audiences.


"BTW, It is not necessary to have a separate TX for each loco. You can have as many RX's bound to one TX as you like. The extra RX's cost about US$15 each."

I indicated that each receiver required minimally an RX, not a TX.


russ


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

When a vendor tries to make their product look better by comparing it to others, they often don't get the facts right, or they aren't direct comparisons. I like to think my customers are smart enough to make their own comparisons and do their own homework. 

I don't know if I was included in your chart or not, as I can't find it or any prices anywhere on your website. This may make it difficult for anyone to do their homework.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Pricing added. Online ordering via PayPal available soon.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Updates to your website look good, Russ!

Ed


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rmcintir on 22 Oct 2009 07:49 AM 
Michael, 

Most Ham interference is from 447 MHz and sloppily spreading into other bands but I freely admit I am not a Ham expert 

That's a rather insulting and inaccurate accusation, especially from one who admits he doesn't know what he is talking about.

he might even disrupt the Syfy channel (59) on cable, it operates at 433 MHz. 


An equally ignorant remark.

Interestingly enough, Ham radio bands also broadcast in other Part 15 radio frequencies such as 900 MHz and 2.4 GHz and require the acceptance of this interference. Other Part 15 bands also have competition within by continuous broadcasters such as sound equipment and telephones. The Part 15, 433 MHz band does not allow continuous broadcast, only brief signal transmission, i.e. car pendants, weather station temperature remotes, etc. 



The difference is most ham and other communications at 900 MHz, 2.4 GHz and many other frequencies are often brief, lower powered transmissions. Usually not much of a problem to adjacent channel users. However, ham operations on 433MHz may be auxiliary or control links running at higher (200-300 watts) power levels and longer, sometimes continuous transmissions. They also are often in a residential area, which may be very near to a Garden Railroader.

By design my system tolerates interference. In fact it is designed to support multiple transmitters controlling different groups of locomotives all on the same 433 MHz band. Each transmitter uses a different "digital" channel, basically a key within the packets sent to guarantee that only their locomotives will respond to their individual signals. 

Tolerating interference from short digital bursts from adjacent channel low power equipment is no big deal. Easy to do with today's technology. In fact it is pretty much a given in almost any digital control system. Stating a digital control system tolerates interference well and allows multiple users or actions is kind of like saying a car comes with wheels and tires. 

Where the problem arises is from a very high RF level signal overloading the front end of a receiver to the point that the desired signal cannot be received. This phenomenon is sometimes referred to as "swamping", "overloading" or "saturating". I did not intend to denigrate your system. I'm sure it is quite robust. I only wanted to point out that 433 MHz is potentially subject to other services that may reduce the usable range of low power equipment. Much the same as few people use 27MHz R/C equipment anymore. There are too many opportunities for problems. There are many ways RF signals may be affected. Granted, the chances of experiencing these problems are probably slim, potential users should nonetheless be aware of the possibilities.


I do wish you well with your new system. It is always good to see new vendors entering the hobby.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Michael, 

You are completely right, if I was a Ham operator and was accused of interfering with radios 13-14 MHz away I would be upset! My 447 MHz statement was completely inaccurate and ignorant and I'm sorry I made it. Although the channel 59 statement is accurate but was meant as a funny since channel 59 is a cable channel and if someone had interference it would be because of a problem in the cable itself, it really does sit across 433 to 434 MHz. 

I did a little research on the repeaters because as you accurately pointed out I don't know enough about possible Ham interference. They look like they operate between 431.0 and 433.0 MHz in 15 and 20KHz bands. Also between 435.0 and 438.0 MHz. I'm not sure if they intentionally jump the 434 MHz area because it is FCC part 15 or whether they are just working to coexist with the 433.92 MHz low power transmitters on their own. I saw a few articles from Ham sites that were reviewing new policies about sharing space with the 433.92 MHz radios and some restrictions about how the repeaters must operate but I don't know what the impact will be. If I had to guess I would say the situation was generally improving rather than getting worse but I am sure there are still problem areas. 

When there is interference it certainly looks to be unintentional side band interference and as you also said, saturates the receivers so they can't pick up anything because Ham signals are orders of magnitude more powerful. I haven't seen this yet but am going to get to know a few local Ham folk to try to recreate this interference so I will know symptoms and have some kind of a plan to work something out. About 2 weeks ago I found a new source for my radio receivers that is advertised to be much better at rejecting unintentional interference and has a much narrower receiver bandwidth. I received them a week ago and have tested them. They are the same price but much better per their spec sheet and seem to operate quite well. They are also offered in other frequencies but I would need to do a lot more research before heading down that path. It could be something to do on a case by case basis. 

I certainly hope none of my customers run into this problem. If they do at least after this discussion I won't be surprised and may even have a game plan to deal with it. Thanks and I'm sorry I got off on the wrong foot but I think I am the better for it because you did make me open up to other possibilities. 

russ


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

I notice your web page says: 
"Did I mention Cab Command is Made in the USA? Unlike other manufacturers, Cab Command is made in the USA with US suppliers and designers for its components." 

While I suppose technically this is a true statement, wouldn't it be ethical to mention some parts like the transmitter radio, receiver radio, LCD display, keypad, etc. are actually sourced out of Asia? Most are actually manufactured in China and shipped out of Thailand? They may have been designed in the US and sold through US suppliers, but are actually built and shipped from Asia. 

Many of Futurlec's products are made in China and none are stocked in the US. They primarily ship out of Thailand. 

You also mention "If for some reason Cab Command ceases to exist, the technical details of the system will become public domain, guaranteeing the system can continue on." Isn't it difficult to speak on behalf of modular assemblies provided by other vendors? 

Just wondering.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Michael, 

My system is designed and manufactured in the USA. I deal only with US suppliers, not overseas middlemen. My system is not designed or assembled overseas and shipped to the US. My statements are NOT unethical. 

The modular assemblies are ALL generic, except for the motor controller. The motor controller is based on a widely used and extremely rugged automotive motor controller. There are MANY sources for ALL the other components. If the system is no longer offered, then the microcontroller code will be released with the PCB layout files, schematics, and even G-Code for the case cutouts.


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