# Bearing/Bushing help needed big time



## noela (May 22, 2008)

Not sure if this is where this should be, but then again, couldn't find another forum that it would fit in to.
I need help in a technical area, that of installing Ball Bearings, particularly in USAT Corrugated Passenger Car Trucks.
I have been doing this for a while now, and what I have been doing is working well, BUT, it is very time consuming to do so, and I am trying to figure out alternatives that would allow for ball bearing installation without a highly labor intensive process.
Right now, to install the bearings, I cut down the shaft of the USAT axles so that I can install a brass shim tube over it, and then recut it to the dimension I need to fit into the ball bearings I use (3mm). I also have to remove the bushing on the side frame because its ID is 2.60 mm, and I am using a Ball Bearing that is 6 mm OD. I have found Ball Bearing equipped wheel sets, and would much prefer to use them as it would get me away from the labor intense part of this, and, hopefully, cut down on the expense related to that. The problem with the ball bearing equipped wheels/axles, is that their axle ends are 3 mm. this leaves me the choice of going with them, and milling down the shafts to 2.60 mm to fit the existing bushing, or some other way, perhaps of pulling out the present bushing and installing an alternative bushing that would fit in the journal as well as allow for inserting the axle ends directly into the new bushing. Another possibility is to try and use the existing USAT axles and somehow get bearings and insulators and fabricate them, but again, that may not be cost effective.
Has anybody run into this problem?
Yes, I know that there are those out there that question the need for ball bearings, I just happen to be one of those that finds them very beneficial, and have performed many conversions with USAT Freight Cars, and Aristo-Craft freight and passenger cars. 
Needless to say, I am grateful for any and all suggestions, as I have a few projects now (only had one to start with) that make it an almost necessity to come up with a viable alternative, if that is at all possible. 
Thank you.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There used to be a guy that did this for you, or sold you a kit.

He used 6mm bearings too, but also pulled the plastic insulator from one wheel and put a metal one in, so then he could pick up power from the ball bearing through the axle.

I've saved his instructions from his web site on my site: *[url]http://www.elmassian.com/tr...e*[/url]

I don't his method was any simpler, except that he apparently found ball bearings that fit the axle tips, which should save a bunch of time.

I'm looking to do the same conversion myself.

Regards, Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hiu Greg,
Needless to say, thank you, AGAIN! I won't need to deal with the pick up portion for the wheels, as I do battery powered lighting, eliminating the dreaded brush pick up that also creates drag. I will be doing a 12 car set for a client, probably in January, and I am trying to keep costs down, without affecting the quality of the work, and I know there are a few more in the area that are considering this conversion, so, my need to see if I can streamline this procedure. If I were able to find BB that actually fit the axle tips on the USAT wheel sets, I'd be in heaven, but I haven't been able to find one, yet. That would probably be the best answer, although the axles with ball bearing wheels on them do eliminate any drag caused by running through curves and switches.

Regards,
Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm looking for the bearing too, but apparently it does exist... all you need is a ball bearing with a 3mm id... and 6mm od from the notes I have.... 

Did you check the boca bearing people? 

I'll look too, maybe we can buy a bunch together to get a better deal. 


Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Greg,
I stock those bearings, work in almost all of the apps that I do, except the USAT Corrugated, I have to build up the axle tips so they'll fit in the 3 mm ID, this is time consuming, as I end up cutting the tip down, and then adding a sleeve of brass, which I then cut down to 3 mm. Perhaps I should try to find a brass tube with an ID o 2.60mm to go over the USAT axle tip, and then just have to cut it once. I'm still grabbing at straws to get this done the easiest way possible. I used the flanged/sealed version from Boca for these apps, never added washers, but it does sound like a good idea, will have to check out a source for them also. Would you use nylon or delrin?
Thanks again.

Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh, misunderstood your post... so the tips of the axles are what dimension? You stated the sideframes are 2.6 mm, and the axles are 2.6mm, surely one of those dimensions are different... 

What is the exact diameter of the axle tip? Is it perhaps metric? 

Regards, Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Greg,
The actual dimension of the axle tip of the USAT is 2.60 mm (.102")
The OD of the journal on the truck is 6.77 mm (.266"), the ID of the journal bushing is 2.65 mm.
Ideally, the axle tip of the wheel set would be 2.60 mm, with the wheels themselves insulated and having ball bearing between them and the axle shaft insulation. Right now the only thing that does come close has an axle tip of 3.00 mm, which could be cut down, but that would add to the expense. 

Regards,
Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... will look for bearings, this guy implied that he had bearings that fit the stock axle tips. 

Regards, Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Thanks Greg,
I'm still looking too. If I find out anything, I will let you know. From what I have gleaned from a few others, there is a possibility that the axle tips on the pass. wheel sets are different than the freight ones.
One alternative I am considering is to remove the USAT wheels and insulating bushing and coming up with a insulating bushing and BB that would fit between the insulating bushing and the wheel, with the ID of the new ball bearing matching the insulating bushing and the OD of the bearing matching the ID of the wheel..
Thanks again for your help.

Regards,
Noel


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi again Greg,
If you were looking for bushing material and insulating material, what would you use?
I meant to ask this in my last reply. I presently use brass to build up, but was considering Delrin or something like that, along with nylon washers to use as spacers. 
Maybe I am making a mountain out of molehill. Just try to o the best that I can so there's no kick back.

Thanks again,
Noel


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Try these people 

http://www.avidrc.com/

They have bearings for a buck ($1.00)

I use their bearings on Aristo Trucks.

Some times I have to put the axel in a drill and use a small file to turn down the journal till the bearings fit snugly on the journal .

I think is use a 3MM x 6MM

JJ


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi,
Thank you. 
Like you, I have used the BB in Aristo trucks and there aren't to many problems. I have also used them in USAT freight trucks, with minimal problems. The problem that I am having is with the USAT Corrugated Car Passenger Trucks and wheel sets. While I have been able to solve this problem by a labor intensive operation, I am trying to cut this down so I can do these conversions more efficiently, as I now have several jobs that I have been asked to do that involve these fine looking cars. 

Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Noel, I see id of 2.5mm is also a standard size. Have you ever checked to see how close these are to fitting the stock axles? 

Maybe that would save some work? 

Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Greg,
Thanks again.
I haven't been able to find that bb with the 2.5mm ID. The only ones that I was able to find had either 2mm or 3mm ID's, but they did have thicknesses of 2.5mm. Virtually all of my apps with these BB's are 2.5mm thick, and with rare exceptions, they are all flanged.
Can you point me to the BB with the 2.5mm ID? These would still require some machining, but I could probably make the cut with one or two passes, certainly a lot better than the many cuts I have to make now.
Thanks again.

Regards,
Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was thinking with only a tenth of a mm, which is about 4 thousandths, maybe even chucking up the axle and running a little emery paper on it would do. Hmm, they are SS axles though, I believe. 

Bocaberarings.com 

metric series, no flange, SS balls and races, but about $9-$10 each! you can get them 1.8 mm thick.. 

(sorry, did not look at the price before!) 

ahh...

*http://www.vxb.com/Merchant2/mercha...Code=2-5mm* 


10 for $40, all stainless, double shielded, 2.5 id, 6 od, 2.6 thick... 


$4 each that way

Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Greg,
Thanks.
At $4, it may be prohibitive to do the install and the milling, but I do appreciate the source information. I've been using the chrome BB's and they seem to be holding up.
I'm still looking also, and will let you know if I find anything.

Regards,
Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Me too, now you got me started ha ha! 

Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Greg,
I may have found a source for the bearing, I'll know in a few days, I hope. Before I get you excited, I will do at least one USAT conversion with the Standard USAT Passenger Wheel sets (will have to cut them down .10 mm, and will go from there, I'll try to take photos. Looks like the cost will be $1.25, and not sure of the minimum other than 10 pieces to a sleeve.
I'll keep you informed.
Merry Christmas!

Regards,
Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's great. I need to find a way to make metal bushings for the axles, so that you pull out the insulator and "ground" one wheel to the axle. 

Then, put a wire in the sideframe (make a little groove in it first for the wire), press in the bearing and you have nice power pickup. 

That's my goal. I do have a small lathe so I can make these up I guess. 

Regards, Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

I was originally thinking along those lines, but that's when I decided that battery power and LED's would be the best way for me to go, just to much current draw for a really long passenger train. Once I solve this issue with the BB's I will have to deal with the LED issue of how to go about that, asa well as which "color" white I want to use. I've been looking at a bunch of different "strips" of LED's, and they offer different options, and, amazingly, different prices. Have you addressed this area at all?

Regards,
Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Going LEDs on the passengers, stay tuned for an article on them and an inexpensive way/place to get them. 

I have found the warm white ones in the surface mount, but want to modify the strips for lower current and higher voltage, the ones that most people find are sections that run at 12 volts. 

Drop me a private email, the data is not quite ready for prime time, but Nick and I are working on a cool solution. 


Regards, Greg


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