# what power do i need?



## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

Hi all, this is the first time at this forum,so here goes it- I have a out side garden layout, 100' of brass track 4.5% grade , ok this is the deal- running a Bachmann 2-8-0 consolidation spectrum w/ Phoenix sound. at this time useing a LGB 1 amp power controler but with say 6-8 cars it is unable to keep up speed and on the grade it stops !!do I need to up grade to something with more amps? any thoughts on what to get ? I know that Bridgewerks 15 amp any thoughts on this and any others ? BTW this is a single train set up. send help soon ! please.H.B.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Bridgewerks would do it, but it is really expensive. For a single train, consider a 3 amp or so power pack. One of the MRC packs would serve you well.


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## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for the reply ! just after I posted this I read on for more info and I came across this - MRC 10 AMP AG990 and the MRC-power G are these the same ? I think that I need one that regulated -so what MRC is the best ..I don't want to fry my sound system...if something should hapen to go haywire if you know what I mean.!again thanks .H.B.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By deleterman on 20 Jun 2010 09:15 PM 
MRC 10 AMP AG990 and the MRC-power G are these the same ?



Yes, they are the same.
This is the Cadillac of the MRC systems, more power than you need.
MRC also has two other systems for G-scale with less power but still more than enough for your needs - as George said, a 3-amp supply would do fine, with a five amp power pack you have some room to spare.


I run LGB engines, many of those tend to require a somewhat higher voltage - up to 24 volts depending on the engine, but your Bachmann is happy with less.
I think you have to decide if you want to plan for more equipment later and buy an adequate power supply for that now.

Which Phoenix sound sustem do you have? the new ones can handle up to 30 volts, so no worries about damging it with too high a voltage. 24 or 25 volts should be the maximum of any G-scale power pack.
The older Phoenix sound systems are only good for 24 volts - if you have one of those you need to be a bit careful which power pack you chose.


-- Knut


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## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

KRS Thanks for the reply, it's aboult 4years old and it's a 2k2, in the hand book it said max track volts 24. so does that give you a tip ? BTW I do have cars that are lit if that makes a difference ? and i guess that's about it...it's 100' brass track in a compact 10x20 area and a 4.5 % grade for 10' and i would like to run 8 or so cars on this. any thoughts on what i need ...for mod # and so on in the MRC line? I think that bridgewerks line is a little over board for me ....at this time ...again thanks for your time on this..H.B.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

6-8 cars up a 4.5 grade may not be a power supply issue!!! 

You are expecting a lot from that engine and if there are curves, almost an impossible job. 

Are the cars freight with metal wheels, or passenger cars with metal wheels?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes - a 4.5 % grade is very steep. 

I don't have any experience with Bachmann engines, but when H.B. wrote the engine stops I assumed it stops - ie wheels stop turning, lights go out. 
That would mean the power pack is overloaded and has shut down. A bigger power pack them may help assuming the engine can handle the load. 

However, if stop meant the engine stopped but the light are still on, then the motor has shut down, or if it meant that the engine stopped with the wheels spinning, 
lights still on, then the grade is too steep for that engine and that load. A bigger power pack won't help you in the last two scenarios. 

A 1 amp LGB transformer is usually fine for most single engine trains, but here there is a sound system and lit cars both of which take extra current, so a 1 amp power pack may not be enough when it comes to the grade. 
Going up the grade, an engine will draw more current as well than on level ground. 

Knut


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## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

Hi guys - back again , after rechecking it's just a hair over 4% grade and it's a loop so is that a hint on what i need ? the grade is about 18' long ,hope thats clears it up some. thanks again H.B.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Sorry HB, that doesn't really help. 

Which of the three scenarios I have described applies? 
1. Does the power pack shut off (lights on the train go out or dim) 
2. Does the motor in the engine shut off? (lights stay on but motor dies. 
3. Does the engine stop because the wheels are spinning (but the lights stay on) 

Or you can measure the voltage and current on the track if you have a meter.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You need to measure the amp draw, but why are we quibbling about transformer size? 

Do you want to buy a transformer that just makes it, and then when you run 2 locos and more lighted cars need another? 

Just buy the 10 amp MRC and get it over with is my advice. 

With 4% grades, the transformer is going to be the least of your worries! 

Regards, Greg


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## ndtechie05 (Jun 21, 2010)

Hey all new here..I learned from my mistakes with power...First I was using the standard LGB starter power pack with a single starter set engine. I moved over to a USA Trains GP-9 with smoke and 4 freight cars. The power was not enough so I went to an MRC 6200...I still over loaded after about 4 times around, which is about 75ft. This past weekend I went with the MRC Power G and it works wonders. The engine handles nicely and runs very smooth. Do yourself a favor and pick up the Power G. I got it for $175 in the my local store.


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## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

KRS thanks for your responce - this is what happens ,at the top of the grade the train stops and no lights..is that a hint ? any thoughts on this problem ? Greg your probly right just buy the MRC and get it over with. the lay out is 4 years old and in the begineing there was no issues ,with the speed or the grade ...and i just had the locomotive gone through not to long ago , and it has all medal wheels. at first i ran a LGBporter with all the cars and had no issues at all except that the gear box had to be replaced , but that wasn't the grade that caused that ..does that help ? H.B.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By deleterman on 21 Jun 2010 12:11 PM 
KRS thanks for your responce - this is what happens ,at the top of the grade the train stops and no lights..is that a hint ? any thoughts on this problem ? 



This could be nothing more than bad continuity at the track. How are you _electrically_ tieing your track together? If you are just using the supplied joiners, perhaps you have corrosion and when the train passes on to a certain section of rail, it "tweaks" the track joiners just enough to loose continuity. I've seen this happen all too frequently on railroads where the owner just used the stock joiners, or did jumpers, but simply twisted the ends of teh wires together without solder.

*The best way to ensure good continuity is to solder jumper wires to the rails across your joiners.* This just happens to be about the cheapest method also.


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## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks Toddalin,now thats a idea -very good ,it to hot out right now but later i will check it out. I do have the jointers screwed to the track and used that LGB black goo in side to help.again thanks. also thanks Ndtechie 05 your story sounds just like mine...thanks for all the great help guys it wount go to waste i tell you that much..I love my setup and just want it to be all it can bee. Just my luck !!! looks like all MRC controls are out of stock .....for over 2-3 months...any thoughts on a different brand...?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By deleterman on 21 Jun 2010 12:11 PM 
KRS thanks for your responce - this is what happens ,at the top of the grade the train stops and no lights..is that a hint ? any thoughts on this problem ? Greg your probly right just buy the MRC and get it over with. the lay out is 4 years old and in the begineing there was no issues ,with the speed or the grade ...and i just had the locomotive gone through not to long ago , and it has all medal wheels. at first i ran a LGBporter with all the cars and had no issues at all except that the gear box had to be replaced , but that wasn't the grade that caused that ..does that help ? H.B.


I think the chances are very good that the power pack is overloadedand the internal circuit breaker trips and shuts off the power.
Before you had an LGB Porter which in itself draws less current than the Bachmann engine you have now - you also have sound which I assume you didn't have with the Porter, that's more current and the lights.

There is a remote possibility that you loose power because of a track joiner but I think that is unlikely with the scenario you describe.
If you have a voltmeter or multimeter, you can always hook it across the track near the power pack or connect it across the output of the power pack.
If there is still the full voiltage when the engine stops, then you have a track joiner problem - if the power pack did overload and shut down, there will be no or very little voltage at the DC termials of the pack.

As to which power pack to buy?
The big 10 amp MRC is certainly a good supply - but I would be a bit cautiousbecause it is spec'd to put out up to 22 volts.
In practice these power packs often put out a somewhat higher voltage with a light load which would normally not be an issue except that your Phoenix Sound is rated at 24 volts maximum.

If you have kids running the railroad you want to make sure you limit the voltage somehow to protect your sound unit - kids love to just crank the throttle up full bore.
A higher voltage is usually better (up to the 24 volt limit) but there are other considerations.


I thought this 10 amp MRC unit had an adjustable mechanical throttle stopthat allows you to limit the voltage when the throttle is at maximum but it says nothing about that in the on-line manual.

Must have been a different unit.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By deleterman on 21 Jun 2010 01:05 PM 
Just my luck !!! looks like all MRC controls are out of stock .....for over 2-3 months...any thoughts on a different brand...?


MRC is out of stock at the factory but hobby stores might have one and there are three or four new ones on Ebay.


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## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for the great info-just a thought ,how would the MRC20 work out ? it has a walk around set up..? its called MRCAA444. and i think its up to 20 volt's. it looks good but what do i know ? thanks for any help on this one.H.B.


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## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

boy all very good replys. i was just thinking i seen -i have crs BTW. BUT ALL I NEED IS SOME ( SPLIT JAW) CLAMPS. i have the track that has little screws that lock the track together but it looks like some joints could need some help.have anyone used these split jaw clamps with the astro type track that have the joints that have the tinny screws .I just might have read that in the new issue of Garden Railways.so if anyone thinks i'm on the right track let me know ok? thank for all the halp so far on this snag i have .have a great 4th.H.B.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Save yourself the trouble and buy a good pack, A Bridgewerks 10AMP wil do nicely and they are made here in the USA......


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, I have all Aristo track. You remove the stock joiners and screws, and then put the split jaw clamps in place. 

Don't try the "over the joiner" clamps, because the conductive path is still from the rail to the joiner, where the problem started. 

Regards, Greg


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## deleterman (Jun 20, 2010)

Thanks for that neat bit of advice -so don't use the over the conector split conecters ??yikes i just got some looks like i will have to get the others .i haven't used the others yet good thing huh ??again thanks for all the help.i think i will run my out fit going the other way -it's a beter run as far as the grade .howard


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