# "Conductive" grease?



## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi, All

Would someone be so kind as to explain "conductive" grease to me?
I understand it's a good idea to use this in rail joiners even if the gaps are jumpered.

Who makes it?
Where can I buy it?
Is ordinary lithium-based grease conductive enough?

Will LGB's "gear and transmission grease" work for this?

Thanks for any help you can give.

Dawg


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's not really conductive--it's more of an anti corrosion paste. In my experience it's extremely effective. You smear it in joint and it prevents corrosion by keeping oxygen and water out. The electricl joint seems to ast longer without failing. I actually tested some and it doesn't really conduct. It's probably more reasonable to say it doesn't inhibit conduction. It may conduct across really small gaps


You can find it in any Auto parts store as "anti seize" compound.


----------



## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I used it on my first layout. Back then all there was was LGB 1600 curves and Aristo three foot straights.
I took all the jointers off that I could and used it. The layout was about120 foot of track with four power
feeders. ( Malibu low volt) I ran like that for about 18 years with no problems.
I found mine at a electronics store. I think it was Midstates electronics.

Don


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

AristoCraft also sells it. I picked up my original bottle of it several years ago and I still have 90%. It goes a long, long way. I think one of the most important points is keeping moisture out of the joint so that when it freezes, as it always does here in Northern Ohio, it will not damage the joint. After 5 years, so far, no winter damage. So I'll keep on using it.....


----------



## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

CAUTION!!!

Electralube is conductive in the Kill-ohm area.
Though it may be typically associated with use on motor blocks or track joints, be advised that this product is also advertised for use as a lube on rolling stock - including Aristo's railroad cars.

Do not use Electralube on plastic parts as you risk cracking unless you know of the type of material.
I experienced massive failures of Aristo-Craft journal boxes attributed to the use of Electralube.





















Since this experience, Aristo-Craft have changed to a nylon based material in place of the softer plastic for its Bettendorf trucks as Electralube won't attack nylon. But if you are unsure of what plastic material you may be considering for lubrication, don't use it.


In this regard, see link for topic,"Catastrophic Journal Box Failures on Aristo-Craft cars!!"

http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulleti...lectralube

-Ted


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CONDUCTIVE GREASE! Do not believe Aristo's label. 

It's use on rail joiners is to keep dirt out, metal to metal is the best, anything inbetween only hinders conductivity. 

Be sure any grease/oil is plastic compatible. The proven hobby lubes are good to use. 

One more time; 99% of all grease is non-conductive. Some have reported on a product in Europe that contains metal that fuses under an electrical load to improve coductivity, but that's it.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

John, it IS conductive, both Ted and I have measured it... It's the only conductive lubricant for trains I have ever found... 

I have no idea what Aristo's intention was, I think it was for conductive pickup in rolling stock journals... but it ate the plastic in a lot of rolling stock. 

My bottle of Electolube has actually eaten through it's OWN bottle! 

All other greases I have found do not conduct as you have said. There ARE conductive greases, used in electrical connections, usually containing particles of copper or silver or gold, expensive and of course not a good idea. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Shown below is an example having a bead of Aristo Electralube placed on a paper surface that measured about 15Kohms.

-Ted


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I used MG Chemicals Carbon Conductive Grease. It does conduct. I spread a bead on a piece of paper and set my meter to ohm, as I moved the leads closer the resistance went down. With what little will be between the track and joiner it doesn't surprise me that the track I laid last year (New Jersey) still has power all round the oval with just one connection of power. $14.95 for 2.8 oz at the electronics supply house I deal with, sure others carry it also. I can't comment on its effect on plastic. 
Nick Jr


----------



## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

The original question was about "conductive grease" and it seems different people have different understanding of what is meant by that:

"It's not really conductive--it's more of an anti corrosion paste. In my experience it's extremely effective. You smear it in joint and it prevents corrosion by keeping oxygen and water out. The electricl joint seems to ast longer without failing. I actually tested some and it doesn't really conduct. It's probably more reasonable to say it doesn't inhibit conduction. It may conduct across really small gaps

You can find it in any Auto parts store as "anti seize" compound."

In the automotive sense, conductive grease is more correctly called dialectric grease. You apply a bit onto an electrical connector in order to prevent moisture from corroding the contacts.

Anti-seize conpound is a lubricant that is used to provide easy assembly and disassembly of metal parts.I don't know how electrically conductive it is, but that's not its purpose.

Putting some dialectric grease onto a track joiner to prevent corrosion and aid electrical conductivity sounds like a good idea. Some of the other items mentioned, not so.


----------



## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi All,

Thanks for the wealth of information. Good stuff.

I'll visit the local electronics store and see what they have to sell. And thanks for the caution about the ElectraLube.

Very helpful, thanks again.

Dawg


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Son of a gun... I stand corrected 
Thanks guys. 

John


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

John: 99.9999% of the time in our hobby you are right, and this topic comes up with regularity. 

The LGB "conductive" paste says "conductive" on it and starts all kinds of arguments. It really gets funny when people start arguing the laws of physics, (or so they think) postulating that the grease MUST be conductive because electricity flows "through" it. (The answer is that no matter how much grease, you have SOME metal to metal contact. 

"Dielectric grease" is indeed used to NOT conduct electricity, most people remember it used on spark plug boots. The whole idea is to keep moisture and dirt out of places so that conductivity CAN be maintained, since. 

There are real conductive greases, like the ill-fated Aristo Electrolube (which is a lousy grease, it washes off and eats plastics), the stuff that Nick Jr. mentioned, and the metal-bearing greases made for this (which are expensive because they typically have silver or gold, although some have copper). 

Anti-sieze, by the way, although it has bits of bright nickel in it, is NOT conductive. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Just for reference, the LGB "conductive" grease has no conductivity at all. Two probes stuck in the can indicate > 20 meg.


----------



## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Steve,
If you are going to "jumper" the connections with, I assume, soldered jumper wires I see no reason in the world to use any kind of paste or grease in the rail joiners other than for some extra work to do. If the jumper wire is the route of the electrical power than the rail joiner is nothing more than an alignment bracket for the rails. 

For rail power connections using rail clamps such as SplitJaw or Hillman I have found that plain old NOALOX anti-oxidant joint compound sold very cheaply in electrical supply houses and big box locations works very well.
I just polish the rail end and the clamp with a brass wire wheel in the Dremel and apply a small amount of the paste with a tooth pick. What your really trying to do is stop the oxidation of the brass. The oxidation is what prevents the transfer of the power. 

Just my opinion, I have been doing it this way a dozen years or more
and in my climate have never had a glitch.

Good luck
Rick Marty


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Yea, too bad I didn't wait for this thread before wasting $10.00 on a can of LGB conductive graphite lubricant. 

Holding the probes between my finger and thumb of each hand shows better conductivity then this stuff.


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Randy, the stuff works well when used in a rail joint because it excludes oxygen and moisture. If you're not going to use rail clamps or solder jumpers, then use the stuff. It does actually work.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, more water in your body than the grease! 

Wait until you get into the argument with someone that it HAS to be conductive because it says so on the tube! 

Or the argument that it HAS to be conductive since the electricity is still going through the joiner. 

I was confused about this when I was 18, but had it explained to me, and there's some interesting physics that goes on when you are conducting from one piece of metal to another. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I do find that the LGB "conductive paste" is effective in keeping the joints working longer, no doubt because of its anti-corrosion properties


I recently bought a jar of permatex copper anti-sieze compound at an auto parts store. "Hmm, thought I, let's try this. It's cheaper than that LGB stuff" I've been using it for a while now. It is certainly copper colored. I have no idea if it actually conducts--haven't tested it. It does seem to keep the joints working nicely


copper anti-sieze 

The manufacturers data sheet says it it 15-25% copper by weight, and says "This product contains encapsulated metal powder which contains copper and/or zinc." It does not give any rating of conductivity, though "provides good conductivity" is listed on the jar. "encapsulated metal powder" is an interesting phrase--encapsulated by what? By the grease it's suspended in?


So it's kind of interesting--why bother to put copper in it? Unless it's all just hype--which it certainly might be--one is led to suspect that the small amount of copper might aid in conductivity to some degree. Or maybe people won't buy paste to smear on the battery terminals in their car unless it appears to have metal in it?


maybe I'll test it tonight


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have used anti-seize coatings for years... the one I use has nickel, yours has copper.. Encapsulated normally means that it is non-conductive. Encapsulated in an insulator film, probably. Copper is used for good thermal conductivity and also apparently the metal particles help in the anti-seize properties... 

I like anti-seize, but it is messy and gets all over stuff... I brush it onto metal parts that will be exposed to the elements with a toothbrush, keeps threads from rusting. I also use it on the surfaces of disk brake rotors (where the wheel bolts, not on the pad area! Keeps surface rust down, looks nicer. 

Been using it since about 1967. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I see that some of these anti sieze and so called conductive greases do not conduct electricity. Is there any product similar to these that will conduct electricity?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes Dan, the Electrolube (can eat plastic), the carbon compound that was mentioned earlier, and EXPENSIVE silver or gold bearing lubes. 

All in the thread already. 

Normally you do not want a conductive grease, too easy to get shorts. 

Greg


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Quite some time ago I read on the old LGB web site that their conductive grease contained particles of graphite, and when crushed under pressure made the connection conduct better.


----------

