# Talk about a busted week for trains....



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Here we have what is arguably one of the biggest weeks for large scale and I am completely underwhelmed! I actually am referring to the whole shebang and not just one thing. First, having the SWGRS go head to head with the BTS was.......unwise (in the extreme) and it turned out just about how I figured it would! They _never_ should have been on the same date!! What ended up happening is that the BTS, already watered down to a multi-scale show was hurt by having fewer vendors and fewer participants and the SWGRS got off to a very rocky start and all for no good reason!! The_ one_ thing that apparently went off without a hitch was the MLS run on the Fairplex Garden Railroad but that was an isolated event for MLS members (not that I'm complaining about that!) 
I'm trying to stay objective but I'm really having a problem with the "us vs them" philosophy! By pitting the shows against each other all that was accomplished was to weaken both shows, deprive the vendors of the ability to attend both and to deprive the largescale community of another show at a different time of the year! It was a bad decision and it hurt the hobby. I hope lessons will be learned from it. My opinion.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

From everyone I talked to, vendors and show organizers and attendees, lessons were learned. Never again. 

Regards, Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve and Greg, 

I received an e-mail from the BTS folks on Monday morning stating that next years show would be on May 21st and 22nd next year in the Ontario Convention Center. For whatever it's worth. This will be the first time I can recall that BTS is held this early. Ramifications of having two shows the same weekend? The vendors I talked with on Saturday were not happy with the shows on the same weekend. Just about every one I talked (vendor) with kept asking what kind of attendance was at the opposing show.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

My guess is that both of those promoters will have problems attracting vendors next year, no matter what the event dates happen to be. It's just too bad that the BTS today isn't what the BTS was back in "the good old days."


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Comments from a vendor at the BTS: my comments will likely be discounted by many but so be it. 
We are very happy with the results from the BTS. Results very similar to other recent years, which in the current economic situation, is very much OK. Saturday was an absolute blur, busy from start to finish. Sunday was not as crowded but many very serious buyers and shoppers. BTS was sold out of exhibit space allocated this year. While there is room to expand, the floor was filled well. Many many vendors have already signed up again for next year. Everyone makes a big deal about it being an all scale show. From someone who was there , 90% or more of the vendors remain Large scale. Sure , there were a lot of module railroads in smaller scales, but I do not think this detracts at all. Some of the missing vendors were LARGE SCALE vendors that did not attend EITHER event. Economics most likely. Since there is room for expansion, if other vendors pass, because they want to be " exclusively large scale"t will simply be their loss next year. Consider this. Large scale is less than 10% of the overall railroad hobby. perhaps in this economy, an exclusive show is not a sustainable business model. I do not have attendance figures for this year BTS, but if it was down, it was not by much. I was ALSO at the ECLSTS this year, changes were evident there also. The BTS will continue ,and as the new management team learns, they will grow it if the economy allows. As long as they do not mess up , future years of fun are assured. 

Jonathan/EMW


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

That was the main jist of my rant. Large Scale is only about 10% of the hobby at large. With most train shows this percentage is even smaller! The BTS and the ECLSTS have a reputation as THE show to attend on each coast! If, for economic reasons, the BTS has opened it's doors to other scales, it's up to all of us to make sure that the percentage of LS vendors and attendees remains as large as possible! This is really what I was trying to get at (I wish that edit button was available but...oh well!) I want both shows to be an outstanding success! I just didn't feel that this was the way to do it. I understand from Greg that the SWGRS is going to happen again in November abd with the BTS in May this problem _should_ be solved! Let us fervently hope so!


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Last year the SWGRS was held at the same Fairplex venue over the Halloween/All saints Day weekend. As a First time event, though attendance was lower than hoped, the show was COMPLETELY ACCEPTABLE in results and overall atmosphere etc. Since a hole exists in the calendar at this time, it is a good choice to continue this year- fall 2010- with a similar effort. The weather at that time of year is also very conducive to outdoor railroading events such as MLS enjoyed on he giant Fairplex line. The two events will not conflict as May to November is a while. The swgrs deserves and will get support from many sides as long as it provides a real service to the hobby, namely filling a schedule hole and boosting model train visibility in the critical pre Christmas season. 

Jonathan/EMw


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Good points Jonathan.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I went to the SWGRS for the MLS event, but didnt have any money to spend so the non-existant vendors wasnt too hard on me. I agree holding it the same weekend was not good, we have so few train shows out here going head to head everyone loses. I'm glad they willl try again in November, dont do it on Halloween, too many families already distracted, the prior or following weekend would have been perfect.


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## chanselman (Jan 7, 2008)

My wife and I went to both the BTS and the SWGRS event. We were very disappointed with both events, especially the SWGRS. We went with the hopes of buying some Piko buildings and figures (other than Just Plain Folks). Needless to say it was a bust. It seemed as though the venders attending the BTS were fewer and brought less merchandise than last year. The vender hall at the Fairplex was even worse. It took us less than 15 minutes to browse the tables. To make matters worse, it cost $9 to park at the Fairplex and $18 (2 people) to get into the vender hall. It was so bad I was sorely tempted to ask for a refund. Good thing when we got back home I had an e-mail from TrainWorld notifying me of their Piko sale, so I ordered the buildings from them. Next year we will stay home and use the money that we will not be spending on gas, hotel and admission to buy what we need on-line.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I fear it was not just these two shows, the SEGRS had fewer large vendors. I did find a few things tho, so not a "bust" by any measure. Just an observation.


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

I've never been to any of these events but personally I don't see the point of splitting off from the BTS show just because they added other scales. Seems like you'd still have all the large scale stuff you'd want, plus a chance to attract new people to large scale.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If you go to a restaurant and get a bad steak. Do you just give up and never go back? Do you give it two or three more tries? Who knows, You might have missed something on the menu you really liked. 

WE all agree that this was a bad idea to have both shows at the same time. I have put that behind me. I am looking forward to better shows and more vendors.

It probably won't happen again. 

I will go to the November show. Mainly because of the Fairplex Rail Road and their team of volunteers who made me feel most welcome.

I will go to l meet with my MLS members.

I will probably buy some stuff. I need buildings and I am looking at Colorado Model Buildings. and others Like Mike from Kansas has some nice stuff. Mike comes to Marty's ever year 

I will try the SWGRRS show a few more times. If the MLS Gathering continues to be as much fun as Sat Night then I will probable drop the BTS show from my events list. 

I think there is room from a show in the spring and a show in the Fall. 

This horse is dead. Give it a good burial and Let's go watch the others in the corral 

JJ


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Well said JJ. I'm sorry I opened this can of worms!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve I think alot of the comments being said here were things that ALL of us were thinking after the shows, in that regards it was good to get it out on the table and see that our veiwpoints were not isolated, but a common experience, so the same wont be repeated again. 

Looking forward for November. hopefully the economy will be a little better and the vendors will feel stable enought to show up in strenth.


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## tomplatten (Sep 12, 2008)

I don't attend too many train shows unless I am looking for something specific. I attended the BTS on Sunday! It was good to talk to the folks from Bachmann and Jonathan from Piko! Was the the traditional show that used to be held at the Queen Mary in July?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By tomplatten on 09 Jun 2010 10:30 AM 
I don't attend too many train shows unless I am looking for something specific. I attended the BTS on Sunday! It was good to talk to the folks from Bachmann and Jonathan from Piko! Was the the traditional show that used to be held at the Queen Mary in July? 
The Big Train Show use to be held at the Queen Mary but was always in June.

It was moved from the Queen Mary to Ontario convention Center three or four years ago, maybe more. 

It was then made a All Scale Show. 

Some Feel it lost something in the move.

In the terms of Space the move was a huge inprovment.

Being on one level was great.

JJ


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Just reading and hearing what took place was a bad decisions to do both on the same weekend. My gut feeling was both shows would not fair well. Lesson learned so now on to the next year and see how it goes. Later RJD


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Honestly for me, train shows lost the "magic" they used to have in the 1980s and early 1990s. 

With the internet coverage of new products, there are no surprises anymore, and no oddball old items, as they were sold on eBay long ago. I can remember one @ junior high school age when I showed up (broke of course) and a guy had a whole table of Egger Bahn!!! 

I can bet this will never be repeated again in the US.


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

Every show is a learning experience. I'm learning all of the time. BTS came over to visit SWGRS and we went over to BTS. We plan to work together in the future. Which means we won't be on the same weekend again. 
With all that happened this weekend and the past shows, there are certain things that seem to be constant no matter where the show is held in the country. 

1. It takes 3-4 years before a show can be considerd a success. I have been told over and over again that the ECLSTS took many years before it made money. 
2. The economy has taken a considerable toll on all hobbies and that has lowered the attendance and the vendors who attend the shows. 
3. The average age of people in large scale is at best middle age and older. We need younger people in the hobby to help it grow. 
4. Thousands and thousands of dollars can be spent on advertising and there is no guarantee it will bring in the people. 

Those who know me can attest that my primary reason for doing these shows is not for the money. I do it for the love of trains. 
Someday I hope to make some money. but this is not my real job so I still have an income. 

Yes, The show was not as big as I had hoped. I had vendors who committed to come and didn't show up. Yet, I had vendors and trains people counting on me to follow through and put on the show. 

Let's look at the positives regarding SWGRS. 

You can not find a better group of people than garden railroaders. I have made friends all over the country and they ALL want to help make the shows a success. 
The Fairplex Garden Railroad is a world class place and you can't ask for better group of people anywhere. I have their total support on any show I promote. 
MLS is a great group also. I hope everyone attending had a good time and want to come back and make this event better every time. I can't ask fro a better bunch of friends 

I have pledges from every vendor and many of the attendees at the show to do whatever is necessary to make the show grow and become something special. 

I have commitments from Bachmann, Aristocraft, Accucraft, USA Trains and other manufacturers to come to th fall show. Many vendors have also committed to attend. I think it will be a great show. 

All I can say is I will do everything in my power to make SWGRS great and I know I have a lot of help to get that done. 

Let's all just get together and have a lot of fun. 

David Roberts 
913-406-3400


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