# Aristo-Craft Diesels - Relative Pulling Power?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

First let me say that this topic is NOT intended to compare any other brands to or anything but Aristo-Craft diesel locomotives with each other - IN FACTORY CONFIGURATION - ONLY. It will help if the information will include whether the optional extra Aristo weights have been added to SD-45s and Dash-9s.

I am mainly interested in Aristo GP-40 (IN PAIRS), and single unit SD-45 and Dash-9 models but if anyone wishes to add relative pulling power they have experienced with other models they are welcome to include them.

My focus is not on how long a train these locos can pull but instead for me to use other's experiences to help me decide on capabilities for pulling old Aristo streamliners up a 10% grade to the yard where I park them.

In the past I used F-1 ABBAs with traction tires (I have not found anything they cannot pull) but my current plans are to try using GP-40s, SD-45s or (hopefully not) Dash-9s. I want to use the same loco(s) as switchers and a FA-1/FB-1 would not look right to me to be used as a switcher. The Dash-9s are too big and too modern for my preferences (they look overwhelmingly large to me when pulling streamliners). 

Currently I have one of each but I don't have the extra weights for the SD-45 or Dash-9. Without the extra weights or a 2nd GP-40 there is just not quite enough pulling power to get the streamliners up the ramp without noticeable slipping.

If someone has a pair of GP-40s and a SD-45 and a Dash-9 with the extra weights it would be helpful for me to know how many more or fewer cars (of the same type) each can pull.


I intentionally did not mention the E-8s because extra factory weights are not available for them and a single E-8 is not able to pull six streamliners up the ramp. 

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll save you some trouble, use the SD-45's with the 3 weights in them. 

You think the -9's are too big, and they pull about the same, the 6 pounds of additional weight is what makes the pulling power. The GP-40 does not pull as much, and you can't get as much weight into them. 

Note well: recent weights are Zinc, and are HALF the weight for the same size as the lead ones. 

(I assume you mean F3 locos with traction tires, USAT... there are no F1's made that I know of, in fact, have never seen a prototype picture of anything earlier than an F3) 

Regards, Greg


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

I know that you have seen pics of FTs , you are well read , they were before the F3s 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_FT


http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel1.html


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Greg is exactly right on. I have additional data to support it. Our club had a pulling contest. We weighed and eventually added everything we could get our hands on to a train, this included old F1A units, Heavyweights,and lots of fishing sinkers, finally totaling 168 pounds. My dash 9 or another members SD45 individually with the full complement of lead weights were the only engines to pull the 168 pounds of train. 
Paul


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04 May 2010 01:57 PM 
I'll save you some trouble, use the SD-45's with the 3 weights in them. 

You think the -9's are too big, and they pull about the same, the 6 pounds of additional weight is what makes the pulling power. The GP-40 does not pull as much, and you can't get as much weight into them. 

Note well: recent weights are Zinc, and are HALF the weight for the same size as the lead ones. 

(I assume you mean F3 locos with traction tires, USAT... there are no F1's made that I know of, in fact, have never seen a prototype picture of anything earlier than an F3) 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

Some people object to my abbreviation as being incorrect but it simplifies my typing. By F1 ABBA I actually meant FA-1/FB-1/FB-1/FA-1 but that's too much typing for me compared to F1 ABBA.

I expected the SD-45s to be the better pullers but that creates a problem for me in that while I use knuckle couplers on my Aristo passenger cars (where the SD-45s would be OK) I've preferred to use knuckle couplers for my freight cars for easy hands off uncoupling even when the cars are at pool cue length.

I may end up using the SD-45's to haul the Streamliners home (the E-8s work OK with my Heavyweights) but I was thinking about using a pair of GP-40s if a pair of them would equal a single SD-45 because it is easier to put hook and loop couplers on GP-40s. I could put hook & loops on one GP-40 and both a hook & loop and a knuckle coupler on the other GP-40.

If I exceed six Streamliners going up the ramp the extra traction would be wasted because then the coaches tend to be pulled off to the inside of the rails (its too much for them to be pulled both up a ramp and around two curves).

Since I posted this I've started looking at a new angle of modifying LGB Uncouplers to work with Aristo knuckle couplers. If that works it may resolve the issue of needing knuckle couplers.

This weekend we are having a club meeting. I may set up one freight yard with knuckle coupled cars and another yard with hook & loop coupled cars and see how they work compared with each other. The dependability and convenience of staying coupled and of uncoupling is more important to me than the appearance of the couplers.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

the only other loco that I have experience with that pulls stumps is the original 2 truck Bachmann Shay. In a tug or war, they are about equal. Nothing else came close. Note, SD45 is an old one with all three LEAD weights. Shay was stock weight. 

See the tug of war test at 

SD45 Pulling Power


see my tractive effort tests page for more locos

Tractive Effort Tests


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

jERRY,[/b]
Just put Dash-9 weights in the E-8 and problem solved. All mine have these weights in them, they will pull anything. Thanks Rex[/b]


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry 
I run a pair of GP 40's as my road switchers. I have not tried to do a pulling test. Yet I have not had them slip or not pull what I needed to pull. 

My grand daughter and guest usually run them because they are very forgiving.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rex, I heard they will pull anything, including the teeth off the gears! 

Greg


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

Marty, do you use track power or battery power since you have such a long mainlin? 
Ron


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 04 May 2010 07:59 PM 
jERRY,[/b]
Just put Dash-9 weights in the E-8 and problem solved. All mine have these weights in them, they will pull anything. Thanks Rex[/b]


Hi Rex,

I have never seen the weights so I did not know they would fit in the E-8. That is a great idea.

Are the weights for the SD-45 and Dash-9 the same and will they also fit in the E-8 and GP-40 without modification?

I have not seen the weights. Can someone post photos of them?

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 04 May 2010 08:05 PM 
Jerry 
I run a pair of GP 40's as my road switchers. I have not tried to do a pulling test. Yet I have not had them slip or not pull what I needed to pull. 

My grand daughter and guest usually run them because they are very forgiving.



Hi Marty,

Thanks, that would resolve the hook and loop issue for me.

Do you run them singly or in pairs MUed together?

Where do you put the batteries?

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Another possible benefit of the weights in these locos is that I have run into a conductivity issue with the E-8s and even the Dash-9 when running across old LGB brass turnouts (even with E-8's MUed together). This is after I cleaned the tracks and turnouts with a LGB Track Cleaning Loco.

I suspect the problem is that the weight of the loco without weights is spread out across the 12 wheels and is too light on the rails to maintain a really good electrical contact. Since I have not had any problems at all with the Aristo stainless steel track or LGB nickel plated turnouts it has to be an issue with the old brass turnouts.

The problem is not Revolution related in that I had the same issue before I installed the Revolution receivers.

Jerry

PS I really do not want to hear any suggestions about switching to batteries. That is NOT something I have the slightest interest in and would just result in another bunch of reasons why I hate batteries.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

I find that any of my Dash 9 locos, even without the additional weights, will haul 50 cars [with metal wheels]. Realistically, how many cars do folks, apart from Jens, actually haul anyhow? A thirty-car consist still looks mighty impressive with three or four sound-equipped Dash 9s in front, even though they might just be coasting along. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 05 May 2010 06:35 AM 
I find that any of my Dash 9 locos, even without the additional weights, will haul 50 cars [with metal wheels]. Realistically, how many cars do folks, apart from Jens, actually haul anyhow? A thirty-car consist still looks mighty impressive with three or four sound-equipped Dash 9s in front, even though they might just be coasting along. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 

Hi Cousin,

In this case apparently the pulling weight of six old Aristo Streamliners going up my ramp and around two 90 degree R3 curves exceeds the straight line pulling power of your 50 cars. A single Dash-9 (without weights) barely makes it but with noticeable slippage of the wheels.

Today I will try it with a SD-45 (I just got the Revolution installed in it yesterday.

Before anyone says my ramps are too steep, they were not an option. The grade was dictated by where they had to be.

By comparison my old FA-1/FB-1 with traction tires have always been able to haul those Streamliners up the grade and around the curves. Then too they have a combined 16 wheels for electrical contact with the rails (I MUed them together long before Aristo started doing it). The FA-1/FB-1s remain my back up plan but I do hope to replace them with single diesel units with Revolutions and keep the FA-1/FB-1s on track power.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Zinc weights? 
I'd build wood forms, line them with plastic wrap and pour in lead shot and then glue. 
Much heavier and cheaper to boot. I picked up 25#s for $20. Gun shops carry it for reloading shotgun shells. 
A big plus is being able to distribute the weight. 
You can also glue the shot into recesses for a more permanent fixture. 

In my case the batteries were half the weight of the zinc they replaced. So I addd shot where ever I could, the domes, the smokebox, in the frame etc... results in mighty fine puller. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was able to put 6 pounds in each E8 simply:










Jerry, E8's should run great over switches, but there can be some things in brand new locos that need attention. Several of my friends had power pickup problems on new E8's, some that even changed between while on the rails and upside down testing in a cradle.

Remove the motor blocks from the sideframe assembly (2 screws) and bend the 4 tabs on top of each motor block upwards to make better contact. This is very common. After running a long time, they will need it again, since these 4 tabs are not made of anything springy, so they eventually flatten back down and stop contact.











You might want to read my "prime mover basics" section on my site about power pickup problems and solutions... it's under ROLLING STOCK......ARISTO...
*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...inmenu-256*


Also, you might want to peruse the E8 section, and it's subsections:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...menu-72/e8*



Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05 May 2010 08:57 AM 
Jerry, E8's should run great over switches, but there can be some things in brand new locos that need attention. Several of my friends had power pickup problems on new E8's, some that even changed between while on the rails and upside down testing in a cradle.

Remove the motor blocks from the sideframe assembly (4 screws) and bend the 4 tabs on top of each motor block upwards to make better contact. This is very common. After running a long time, they will need it again, since these 4 tabs are not made of anything springy, so they eventually flatten back down and stop contact.

Regards, Greg 



Hi Greg,

You hit the nail right on the head. Rather than start with my E-8 Warbonnets (where I first noticed the problem) I started with the SD-45 that I just put a Revolution in. The SD-45 and even the Dash-9 have had the same problem (to a lesser extent) as the Warbonnet E-8's which I bought when they were first released. 

Just as you had described, when I tested the Warbonnet E-8's upside down (when I thought I had a wheel pickup problem) every one of the 12 wheels conducted perfectly (as per your information) yet when put back on the rails there was an intermittent conductivity problem especially when moving at a snail's pace. 

It took me a minute and the Aristo parts diagrams to figure out exactly which 4 screws I needed to remove (since this was my first six axle Aristo loco to work on).

What was and is confusing about the Warbonnets was that they ran perfectly on the layout for a long time but in retrospect that may have been because of the momentum of the six trailing Streamliners.

Thanks for providing the solution I needed especially when I was unaware I needed the solution.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 05 May 2010 08:09 AM 
Zinc weights? 
I'd build wood forms, line them with plastic wrap and pour in lead shot and then glue. 
Much heavier and cheaper to boot. I picked up 25#s for $20. Gun shops carry it for reloading shotgun shells. 
A big plus is being able to distribute the weight. 
You can also glue the shot into recesses for a more permanent fixture. 

In my case the batteries were half the weight of the zinc they replaced. So I addd shot where ever I could, the domes, the smokebox, in the frame etc... results in mighty fine puller. 

John 

Hi John,

I thought you were going to say that you poured molten lead. I used to cast my own bullets back when I did some commercial reloading (with an ATF License) for awhile but eventually I got too concerned about the toxic lead fumes even though I had a pretty good vent. I would strongly recommend against anyone casting their own lead weights.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't know what I was thinking when I mentioned using GP-40s for switching with hook & loop couplers. I thought I had put hook and loops on my CB GP-40 but when I went to get it and try it I found that it has Aristo knuckle couplers and it also has the same end as the SD-45 and Dash-9 regarding problems with installing hook & loops on it.

It looks like I will revert to my original plan to put some Revolution Receivers in a few NW-2's that have hook & loop couplers for use with rolling stock that also have hook and loop couplers.

Actually after looking closer at the Aristo knuckle couplers I noticed for the first time that they have a bottom tab that will keep the knuckle coupler from lifting up and out of a mating coupler. They may have always been that way but if so I just never noticed it.

Jerry


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Jerry, I know this is probably a dumb question, but instead of trying to push them all up the hill at once, can you make two trips instead? 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They weren't always that way Jerry, but they have been that way for a number of years. I did not notice right away when the "override plate" was added. This is one of the main reasons people love the Aristo coupler. It's also one of the rude awakenings that people have when first going to Kadees, you cannot have roller coaster track or sharp grade transitions with Kadees. 

The new "Kuppler" also has the "override plate" although it's more of a small tab screwed on. 

Anyway, back to pulling power, the E8's pull great, mine all have 6 additional pounds, you can use 3 of the 2 pound dash 9 weights, or do what I did, and pour 6 pounds of lead shot into it, and soak with a white glue diluted 1:3. I lined the fuel tank with heavy aluminum foil should I wish to remove the weights. 

(funny, Rex has not come back from my stripped gears jibe!) 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote...[ funny, Rex has not come back from my stripped gears jibe!]

Yup thats funny.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 05 May 2010 03:51 PM 
Hey Jerry, I know this is probably a dumb question, but instead of trying to push them all up the hill at once, can you make two trips instead? 

Keith 

Hi Keith,

That is not a dumb question. You have never been here or seen my layouts.

For me to walk from the yard in the crawl space where I park the Passenger Trains to the screened porch where they enter the crawl space would be about 5 steps if I could walk through a cinder block and brick wall. 

I made up the following to show what is involved:

Red lines are doors
Orange lines are steps
Brown lines are walls
Blue line is where I have to walk to get from the crawl space yard (which is actually below a wood deck I have to get on my hands and knees to reach) to the screened porch on the outside deck. I cut about a 12" x 12" hole in the house wall to get the trains outside.












There are 3 sets of steps not counting the step up into the screened porch.
There are 5 doors
And I would guess around 120 - 150 steps to walk - for each set of cars I move from outside to inside.

If I move 4 passenger trains from the crawl space yard either inside or outside it normally takes an average of two movements per train or 8 trips back and forth each way. If I want to run freight trains that involves additional locomotives and rolling stock movements. 

The narrow gauge trains (that I run outside) are on the garage layouts (over and under). They run through a window in the garage and trains have to be assembled according to what can be driven up the 10% ramp grade if they are on the lower deck.

Additionally there is a pulley system to raise the garage window and two more pulley systems to raise screens to and from the screened porch plus a wood door that I made to keep critters out of the crawl space.

Its kind of complicated especially because I have to juggle two outside power supplies with two garage power supplies and a different crawl space power supply trying to keep the trains from shorting one power supply with another (add a mixture between the Revolution, MTS/DCC, track power and DCS and it can get a bit more exciting).

All turnouts are electric LGB and naturally the garage turnouts have to be controlled from inside the garage, the crawl space turnouts controlled from inside the crawl space and the outside turnouts are a mixture of controls with some out on the deck (for switching) and inside the screened porch for movements from inside to and from outside (in case I have to do it in the rain). Each turnout system has independent power supplies to try to avoid accidentally causing problems on layouts I am not actively running.

Its not near as bad as it seems. Actually it is set up in a very logical manner. I just have to do a lot of moving around to get things from one place to another.

Jerry


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

Nicholas,[/b]
*Maybe because Rex is not online 24-7 I'll come back about my gears. I stripped the gears in the motor blocks, in one of my Santafe A-units. It was bound to happen one day, concidering I have 65 Aristo engine with these gears. These engines get run the most, they have lots of hours on them. I caused the problem. I was running my A-B-B-A on battery, pulling 15 USA Streamliners, got one of the TE's in one of the B-unit out of sink, at full power. with all the wieghts, the front A-unit went into reverse, with three other engines going foward. Didn't notice until I heard the lead engine whinning very fast. Its all fixed, I had spare gear boxes from kitbashed engine leftovers. Actually, I beleave they came from Gregs, cut up engines, when I built his Santafe B-unit. The only reason Greg knew, was that tattle tell, RJ. I forgot that I had stripped the gears, until we where running them at RJ's house last week, during the SEGRS week. Rex *


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05 May 2010 04:22 PM 
They weren't always that way Jerry, but they have been that way for a number of years. I did not notice right away when the "override plate" was added. This is one of the main reasons people love the Aristo coupler. It's also one of the rude awakenings that people have when first going to Kadees, you cannot have roller coaster track or sharp grade transitions with Kadees. 

The new "Kuppler" also has the "override plate" although it's more of a small tab screwed on. 

Anyway, back to pulling power, the E8's pull great, mine all have 6 additional pounds, you can use 3 of the 2 pound dash 9 weights, or do what I did, and pour 6 pounds of lead shot into it, and soak with a white glue diluted 1:3. I lined the fuel tank with heavy aluminum foil should I wish to remove the weights. 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

As you said "you cannot have roller coaster track or sharp grade transitions with Kadees."

That is why I don't use Kadees. They could never stay coupled on my ramps. Now that Aristo knuckle couplers are more dependable I may give them a second look.

My main reservation is that I have a concrete garage floor slightly past the 10% ramp from my upper deck to the lower deck. I've had non-hook and loop couplers fail on that grade resulting in cars crashing onto the concrete (NEVER happened with dual hook and loop couplers).

I also have a 25% rack rail transition from my upper crawl space to the lower crawl space. I don't think I would trust anything but LGB hook and loops on it (the special ones made for rack rail).

I may try your fuel tank weight idea and just fill a fuel tank with .45 ACP FMJs and see how it does. I'll have to see how easy it is to remove the fuel tank (I can't tell by the instructions).

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rex, now you know we all love ya! 

I just had to pull your chain, and of course, I "hid" the explanation for the situation, perfectly understandable. 

I gotta get back at RJ once in a while ha ha!. 

I've basically found the Aristo gearboxes indestructable, as you have Rex! 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Rex: Nothing is secret with me around. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 05 May 2010 06:00 PM 
Nicholas,[/b]
*Maybe because Rex is not online 24-7 I'll come back about my gears. I stripped the gears in the motor blocks, in one of my Santafe A-units. It was bound to happen one day, concidering I have 65 Aristo engine with these gears. These engines get run the most, they have lots of hours on them. I caused the problem. I was running my A-B-B-A on battery, pulling 15 USA Streamliners, got one of the TE's in one of the B-unit out of sink, at full power. with all the wieghts, the front A-unit went into reverse, with three other engines going foward. Didn't notice until I heard the lead engine whinning very fast. Its all fixed, I had spare gear boxes from kitbashed engine leftovers. Actually, I beleave they came from Gregs, cut up engines, when I built his Santafe B-unit. The only reason Greg knew, was that tattle tell, RJ. I forgot that I had stripped the gears, until we where running them at RJ's house last week, during the SEGRS week. Rex *









What no pictures again ?







Sorry i found one HA HA HA


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 05 May 2010 05:51 PM 
Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 05 May 2010 03:51 PM 
Hey Jerry, I know this is probably a dumb question, but instead of trying to push them all up the hill at once, can you make two trips instead? 

Keith 

Hi Keith,

That is not a dumb question. You have never been here or seen my layouts.

For me to walk from the yard in the crawl space where I park the Passenger Trains to the screened porch where they enter the crawl space would be about 5 steps if I could walk through a cinder block and brick wall. 

I made up the following to show what is involved:

Red lines are doors
Orange lines are steps
Brown lines are walls
Blue line is where I have to walk to get from the crawl space yard (which is actually below a wood deck I have to get on my hands and knees to reach) to the screened porch on the outside deck. I cut about a 12" x 12" hole in the house wall to get the trains outside.












There are 3 sets of steps not counting the step up into the screened porch.
There are 5 doors
And I would guess around 120 - 150 steps to walk - for each set of cars I move from outside to inside.

If I move 4 passenger trains from the crawl space yard either inside or outside it normally takes an average of two movements per train or 8 trips back and forth each way. If I want to run freight trains that involves additional locomotives and rolling stock movements. 

The narrow gauge trains (that I run outside) are on the garage layouts (over and under). They run through a window in the garage and trains have to be assembled according to what can be driven up the 10% ramp grade if they are on the lower deck.

Additionally there is a pulley system to raise the garage window and two more pulley systems to raise screens to and from the screened porch plus a wood door that I made to keep critters out of the crawl space.

Its kind of complicated especially because I have to juggle two outside power supplies with two garage power supplies and a different crawl space power supply trying to keep the trains from shorting one power supply with another (add a mixture between the Revolution, MTS/DCC, track power and DCS and it can get a bit more exciting).

All turnouts are electric LGB and naturally the garage turnouts have to be controlled from inside the garage, the crawl space turnouts controlled from inside the crawl space and the outside turnouts are a mixture of controls with some out on the deck (for switching) and inside the screened porch for movements from inside to and from outside (in case I have to do it in the rain). Each turnout system has independent power supplies to try to avoid accidentally causing problems on layouts I am not actively running.

Its not near as bad as it seems. Actually it is set up in a very logical manner. I just have to do a lot of moving around to get things from one place to another.

Jerry

Wow Jerry, Impressive............


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 06 May 2010 02:05 PM 
Hi Keith,

If I move 4 passenger trains from the crawl space yard either inside or outside it normally takes an average of two movements per train or 8 trips back and forth each way. 

Jerry

Wow Jerry, Impressive............










Hi Nick,

Thank you for the compliment. 

The truth is that it turned out this way by accident. I started with a single track outside layout with a simple yard under the house to park the trains. Our house is on a 25% grade so the layout had to be elevated so that called for a deck. To get the trains inside meant a hole in the wall. The dirt in the crawl space did not allow for expansion which led to the garage storage yard but my wife said I could not have one more inch of garage space etc. etc. etc.

Every expansion was the result of running into an immovable object (or my wife) and the layout developed around the obstacles.

Regards,

Jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

As we say moving things around is what RRing is all about. Never any simple moves at times. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 06 May 2010 04:36 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 06 May 2010 02:05 PM 
Hi Keith,

If I move 4 passenger trains from the crawl space yard either inside or outside it normally takes an average of two movements per train or 8 trips back and forth each way. 

Jerry

Wow Jerry, Impressive............











Hi Nick,

Thank you for the compliment. 

The truth is that it turned out this way by accident. I started with a single track outside layout with a simple yard under the house to park the trains. Our house is on a 25% grade so the layout had to be elevated so that called for a deck. To get the trains inside meant a hole in the wall. The dirt in the crawl space did not allow for expansion which led to the garage storage yard but my wife said I could not have one more inch of garage space etc. etc. etc.

Every expansion was the result of running into an immovable object (or my wife) and the layout developed around the obstacles.

Regards,

Jerry




And this is why i got rid of the 2 Wifes and got Girlfreinds, Much easier to deal with when it comes to trains............HE HE HE Its all good.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04 May 2010 01:57 PM 
Note well: recent weights are Zinc, and are HALF the weight for the same size as the lead ones. 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

FYI - I just received some SD-45 weights and some Dash-9 weights. Both came in sets of two weights plus the mounting screws.

The SD-45 weights are lead, shorter, heavier and taller (square). 

The Dash-9 weights are lighter (zinc?), longer and shorter (rectangular).

The screws provided match the height of the weights.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The SD-45 ones should be lead and should be about 2 pounds each. 

The dash 9 ones are in zinc lately and are probably 1 pound each. 

The older dash 9 weights should have been 2 pounds each. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep AC still has some of the lead weights left depending on what ones you order. They should run out soon. Should you decide to throw out you locos to the local trash be reminded that I am fully certified to take any of your locos that have the lead weights and reinstate them to my RR at no charge.







Later RJD


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have now installed Aristo-Craft Revolution receivers and weights into four SD-45's. The increase in weight is very noticeable and the SD-45's are now able to pull six Aristo-Craft Streamliners up my ramp and to their storage yard. Since the Streamliners tend to derail when backing down the ramp and through LGB turnouts I have changed how I park them.

Now I use a SD-45 to pull each set of Streamliners up to the yard with the Streamliners lined in reverse order. When ready to bring them out I will use the matching E-8 to drive them out of the storage yard, down the ramp and out onto the layout. This way when they come out with the E-8's they will be in the proper order and ready to run out on the layout.

With the weights the SD-45's have little difficulty with losing contact with the rails in the storage yard but I have not added any weights to the E-8's and they continue to stall and stop on the layout. I'll have to see if I can add weights to them and what difference it makes. The E-8's without weights also have some problems going through my LGB turnouts and I think this too will improve with some weights added.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, I may have already mentioned this, be sure to check the 6 contacts on top of each E8 motor block, many did not make contact right out of the box. 

I have 6 pounds added (dash 9 weights fit, but you want the original lead ones at 2 pounds each), made a huge difference. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Greg,

Yes you did mention the 6 contacts and it did help but not enough. I found in one case that the strain of pulling the heavy Streamliners was enough to partially lift the wheels of an E-8 off the rails on a curve (this was about a 15' diameter curve).

I have a couple sets of Dash-9 weights and I have re-drilled one set and put it into a PRR E-8 but the weights I got are the light zinc ones. I have not tried the E-8 with the weights yet (I am in the process of installing a Revolution and Dallee sound system in it) but I hope that with the weights it will make better electrical contact in the storage yard.

I agree that the lead Dash-9 weights would have been a much better choice. I suspect that Aristo switched away from lead weights for toxicity reasons. If I am not mistaken LGB did the same thing. Lead was probably cheaper and easier to work with. I know that I found the zinc a bit more difficult to drill because it tended to clog the drill bit.

If anyone has lead Dash-9 weights they have no use for (perhaps they replaced them with batteries) I'd be happy to pay for the shipping to send them to me (please send me an email and we can work out the details). 

I think the E-8's really NEED the extra weights to maintain contact on curved track. 
You mentioned 6 pounds added but there was only room for two zinc weights. I have not seen the Dash-9 lead weights. Perhaps they were a different shape. I am pretty sure that the SD-45 lead weights would be too tall to fit in the E-8 fuel tank but I did not have any left to try. My guess is that Aristo is out of Dash-9 lead weights.


Thanks,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Turns out there is quite a story about E8's and weights.

Here's a vignette on my site by Ted Doskaris telling you all you ever wanted to know about Aristo weights:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...to-weights* 



The short story is that the E8's were one of the first locos where the weights cost A LOT, in some cases $10 each, as opposed to the promised and the previous costs.

We waited a long time after production to get the weights, and then it turned out that they were the same size as the Dash 9 weights, and were NOW made from zinc.

If we knew they used the Dash 9 weights, we could have bought the lead Dash 9 weights much earlier.

It was pretty bad, some people got weights for free, some people were charged outrageous prices. (Of course this is all on the Aristo forum for anyone who doubts me).

Anyway, I would search hobby shops and look for old stock, or do what I did on my E8, as I showed elsewhere... it's on my E8 pages.

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I am unaware of the previous situation regarding weights but Lewis' comments make sense to me.

"05-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Lewis Polk
Aristo-Craft Trains President

All loco weights are now zinc, not lead

Dear All,

I've mentioned this before, but due to the possible leakage of lead into the ground when locos are "tossed out", the law no longer allows the usage of lead in "toy" trains. Lead was efficient in that it's size to weight was the best and provided perfect pulling power directly over the wheels.

Well........it's not allowed anymore, so we have had to shift to Zinc, which is half the weight for the same size. It's unfortunate, but we share the planet with many non-train hobbyists and have to comply for the greater good.

While, you can make your own weights with birdshot, etc. it's really not legally appropriate and we need to pull less cars with our trains or double head the trains more.

That's just the way it is today and we wanted to remind you, so you could understand why our trains can't pull to the capacity we once did. On the other hand your gears will last longer and your trains will be more prototypical using m.u.'d consists.

All the best, 
Lewis Polk" 

I've seen it before when the cost of lead shot (for reloading shotgun shells) skyrocketed and lead was banned from a lot of hunting.

Rather than addressing large scale trains I suspect the laws were enacted regarding lead in cheap toy trains (along with paint that includes lead). Lead is or has been banned from just about everything including plumbers solder.

The Dash-9's and SD-45's I recently received include a letter that offers free weights (sets of two) for these locos with $5.00 to cover the cost of shipping or the weights would seem to also be available from the dealers.

The only difficulty with the E8's using the Dash-9 weights is that the length of the E8 fuel tank is short and the Dash-9 weights have to be carefully positioned and the holes re-drilled to get them to fit inside the E8 fuel tank. Also the Dash-9 must be threaded for the screws as nuts are not included with the Dash-9 weights but they are needed to put the weights into an E8.

I believe it when Aristo-Craft said they had to stop shipping locos with these weights due to shipping damage. It is easy to see how the added weight could lead to shipping damage.

Ultimately the manufacturers have to do what they need to do for whatever reasons and as customers we need to become inventive to come up with our own solutions. 
As an update, I did find that by drilling slightly larger holes in the round impressions offset from the original hole (there is a round impression on both sides of the original hole) that the spacing is just right for mounting the Dash-9 weights in an E8. I get slightly closer spacing by putting the two weights with one having the round impressions on top and the other with the impressions on the bottom.



Jerry


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 May 2010 09:36 AM 
Turns out there is quite a story about E8's and weights.

Here's a vignette on my site by Ted Doskaris telling you all you ever wanted to know about Aristo weights:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...to-weights* 



The short story is that the E8's were one of the first locos where the weights cost A LOT, in some cases $10 each, as opposed to the promised and the previous costs.

We waited a long time after production to get the weights, and then it turned out that they were the same size as the Dash 9 weights, and were NOW made from zinc.

If we knew they used the Dash 9 weights, we could have bought the lead Dash 9 weights much earlier.

It was pretty bad, some people got weights for free, some people were charged outrageous prices. (Of course this is all on the Aristo forum for anyone who doubts me).

Anyway, I would search hobby shops and look for old stock, or do what I did on my E8, as I showed elsewhere... it's on my E8 pages.

Regards, Greg 



If anyone wants these weights, Trainz on Ebay has a set of them for sale for 59.99 BUY IT NOW..................what a deal


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I did fit a pair of Dash-9 zinc weights into a B&O E-8 and they did improve traction and track contact quite a bit but not quite as much as I would like. I noticed that Aristo lists a different weight set for the E-8: ART29517 E-8 WEIGHTS 3 + SCREWS
[/b] 
Does anyone have these and if so how do they compare with the ART29514 DASH 9 EXTRA WEIGHTS and the ART29515 WEIGHTS FOR THE SD-45?
[/b] 
For that matter has anyone fit SD-45 weights into an E-8? I've already installed my SD-45 weights in SD-45's and I would hate to take one apart just to check the weights if I can avoid it. I think the SD-45 weights are probably too tall for the E-8 but I may be wrong.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Again on my site, another vignette by Ted Doskaris on the SD45 weights and installation:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...stallation* 


Aristo stated the E8 and the Dash 9 weights are the same... don't know why there is a new part number other than possibly the dash 9 number was lead still, from old stock.

Maybe the length of the screws is different.

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 May 2010 03:45 PM 
Again on my site, another vignette by Ted Doskaris on the SD45 weights and installation:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...stallation* 


Aristo stated the E8 and the Dash 9 weights are the same... don't know why there is a new part number other than possibly the dash 9 number was lead still, from old stock.

Maybe the length of the screws is different.

Regards, Greg 



Hi Greg,

If one tries to install the Dash-9 weights in an E-8 using the pre-drilled holes (as I did) the fuel tank will not fit. Also the E-8 requires nuts to hold the screws while the Dash-9 apparently does not in that the Dash-9 weight set includes screws, washers but no nuts.

In order to install the Dash-9 weights in an E-8 the weights have to be right up against each other. Drilling new holes in the round impression of the Dash-9 weights allows the weights to be shifted enough to fit inside the E-8 fuel tank.

Perhaps the Aristo E-8 weight set includes the offset holes and the washers.

Unfortunately Ted did not include external measurements of the SD-45 weights which would have told me if they would fit in an E-8 fuel tank. I doubt it but perhaps they would.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Dash 9 and SD 45 weights are different, i used the SD weights in my E-8s and they just fit with no problems.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The "difference" was between the E8 and Dash 9, and I think Jerry clarified what I was not able to determine firsthand, that the weights seem to be the same size, but different mounting holes. 

Jerry, on my site, there are pictures of the 29514 and the 29517 .... they both appear to have holes in the same place. 

Do your Dash 9 weights match what is in the pictures? 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Dont know about E-8 weights but D-9 and SD-45 weights are different. One is square and one is rectangler........


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 May 2010 07:15 PM 
The "difference" was between the E8 and Dash 9, and I think Jerry clarified what I was not able to determine firsthand, that the weights seem to be the same size, but different mounting holes. 

Jerry, on my site, there are pictures of the 29514 and the 29517 .... they both appear to have holes in the same place. 

Do your Dash 9 weights match what is in the pictures? 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

First let me say that I have very little experience with these weights. I just know what I have run into with s single shipment of Aristo weights.

The Dash-9 zinc weights I received were in an unmarked box and they were different from the lead Dash-9 weights in your pictures. Instead they were like the E-8 ART29517 weights on your site but without the nuts you have in your picture. Your measurements of the ART29517 weights matched my measurements of the Dash-9 weights and the holes were centered as well.

As I mentioned, when I tried to put the weights in an E-8 using the centered hole the fuel tank would not fit. Instead I drilled new holes in one of the offset indentations that are visible on your zinc ART29517 weights and are also on my zinc ART29514 Dash-9 weights 











but not the same as on your lead ART29514 Dash-9 weights.













On the other hand your SD-45 weights do match my SD-45 weights and both are lead.













Since all the weights do is to add weight I imagine Aristo may be looking for the best way to address the issue with a minimum of inventory. Aristo does not provide any pictures of their weights which may be their way of assuring that they can change them as the situation changes.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 15 May 2010 05:42 PM 
Dash 9 and SD 45 weights are different, i used the SD weights in my E-8s and they just fit with no problems.


Hi Nick,

Would you please confirm for me that the lead ART29515 SD-45 weights (as shown below) fit in the fuel tanks of your E-8's? 












Thank you,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like the "E8" set will come with different hardware, but the holes still have to be drilled. 

Aristo says that you use Dash 9 weights in the E8. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 May 2010 11:29 AM 

Aristo says that you use Dash 9 weights in the E8. 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

That may be true about what Aristo says but if Nick will confirm that the SD-45 lead weights fit in an E-8 fuel tank that will be 4 lbs instead of 2 lbs.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Sorry Jerry, i misimformed you, I havent seen these locos in almost a year so i had forgotten what id done to them. I did use the D-9 weights mounted sideways and did [NOT] have to redrill them so they would fit. they should bolt rite in.







Sorry my bad i must have had a brain fart.........


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 16 May 2010 01:38 PM 
Sorry Jerry, i misimformed you, I havent seen these locos in almost a year so i had forgotten what id done to them. I did use the D-9 weights mounted sideways and did [NOT] have to redrill them so they would fit. they should bolt rite in.
Sorry my bad i must have had a brain fart.........











Hi Nick,

It looks like we were both mistaken. It did not occur to me to try to install the weights in the E-8 sideways as you did. I mounted them in-line which is the reason I had to re-drill the holes. For some reason Aristo does not seem to have a parts drawing of the E-8 so I could not find any information about the right weights and their positioning.

Thank you for the update.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 15 May 2010 03:38 PM 
I did fit a pair of Dash-9 zinc weights into a B&O E-8 and they did improve traction and track contact quite a bit but not quite as much as I would like. 

Jerry


I need to correct myself. My claim that the E-8's were not making good contact with my inside crawl space layout turns out to have been more a result of my failure to properly clean the LGB brass track. Even though I had run a LGB Track Cleaning Loco over the LGB turnouts and they looked good to me, today I got on my hands and knees (not easy) and crawled to and cleaned those turnouts with a LGB 50040 Track Cleaning Block. As I did this I realized that my old eyes had not been showing me (from 10 feet away) that there remained a lot of imperfections (tarnish, corrosion etc.) that I had not removed with the TCL.

Once I re-cleaned the turnouts by hand the Aristo E-8's no longer seem to have a conductivity issue with the turnouts.

In fairness to the Track Cleaning Loco I bought these LGB turnouts used 15 years ago and it has been years since I've cleaned them properly. They sit on a plywood platform less than a foot above the dirt in my unheated/uncooled crawl space within a few feet or less of the outside brick wall of our house so they are subjected to dirt, dampness, extreme temperature changes (for Arkansas) etc.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, one picture is worth 1,000 words. 

So 3 dash 9 weights fit without drilling the weights. 

Good. 

Maybe the hardware is different, but if you can find old stock dash 9 weights, you might get lead ones. 

Jerry, are you going to try all 3 weights? 

Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 May 2010 04:22 PM 

Jerry, are you going to try all 3 weights? 

Greg 

Hi Greg,

It depends on the cost. As far as I know the E-8's do not include the offer for free weights that the Dash-9 and SD-45 do. I have used up all the Aristo weights I had.

I have a sheet of lead somewhere around here and I may end up just cutting that up in pieces to fit inside the E-8 fuel tanks.

Unlike the Dash-9 I would not want to lay weights inside the E-8 fuel tanks where they would depend on four tiny screws to hold them in. If the Dash-9 weights fit I could have used them and replaced them in the Dash-9 fuel tanks with lead bullets. In effect I would have had SD-45's with Colt 45 weights (.45 ACP actually).









Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The E8's were supposed to ship with one weight as I remember... then they shipped with no weights. 

You remember my big post about the "story" before. Supposedly you can get the weights for $5 including shipping from Aristo, but several friends were charged $10 each. 

You might do what I did with glue and #9 lead shot, that came to an even 6 pounds. 

I don't like the 4 small screws either, I was careful to re-thread them back into the existing "threads" in the chassis. 

I have 3 units all with 6 pounds added and no problems, though. 

Regards, Greg


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Greg, Jerry,*
* I used 3 Dash 9 lead wieghts in all my E-8's They work great. Thanks Rex*


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Rex,

The question is not whether ART29514 Dash-9 weights lead weights will fit under the E-8 fuel tanks (I am sure that they will) but rather if the ART29515 SD-45 lead weights will fit under the E-8 fuel tanks. The SD-45 fuel tank extends about 2" below the frame while the E-8 fuel tank extends about 1 3/4" below the frame. The SD-45 lead weights are taller than the Dash-9 and E-8 lead or zinc weights and the 1/4" height difference between the fuel tanks just might be enough to prevent the SD-45 weights from fitting under the E-8 fuel tank. 

I just want to be sure the lead SD-45 weights will fit in the E-8's before I order any. 

BTW those E-8B's look fantastic. I had not seen any Warbonnet E-8B's. How did you make them?

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't believe they will. 

I'm missing something, why are you fixated on using the SD45 weights in the E8? In hopes of getting lead ones? Lewis just announced they are all zinc now. (Of course Lewis is never wrong) 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 17 May 2010 10:23 AM 
I'm missing something, why are you fixated on using the SD45 weights in the E8? In hopes of getting lead ones? Lewis just announced they are all zinc now. (Of course Lewis is never wrong) 

Regards, Greg 

Yes, it is in the hopes of getting lead weights.

Even if Aristo is out of lead weights in all sizes there remains the possibility that a dealer may still have some lead ones. Since we know the Dash-9 weights fit in an E-8, that confirms that lead Dash-9 and lead E-8 weights will fit. Once I confirm if SD-45 weights will or will not fit that will tell me if I should bother considering SD-45 lead weights if I find any.

I am not fixating on it as much as trying to clarify the issue IF someone happens to know the answer rather than for me to take one of my SD-45's apart to find out for myself. I will have to do that soon enough when more SD-45 sound systems arrive but there is a possibility I may run across some SD-45 weights before I get more SD-45 sound systems. 

I try very hard to avoid taking any locomotive apart any more than absolutely necessary as it often happens that something gets broken in the process.

Typing a question is a lot easier and safer than disassembling a loco.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,[/b]
Yes the SD-45 wieghts will fit in the E-8's. If you can't find what you need, e-mail me and I'll check and see what I have stashed. I should have both Dash-9 and Sd45 wieghts. 
I have made 3 Santafe B-ubnit and 2 B&O B-units Thanks, Rex[/b]


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 17 May 2010 05:41 PM 
Jerry,[/b]
Yes the SD-45 wieghts will fit in the E-8's. If you can't find what you need, e-mail me and I'll check and see what I have stashed. I should have both Dash-9 and Sd45 wieghts. 
I have made 3 Santafe B-ubnit and 2 B&O B-units Thanks, Rex[/b]


Hi Rex,

I sent you an email (any Aristo lead weights would be greatly appreciated) but I read that you have not been feeling well. There is no rush at all.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

How many do you need ? Right now I have 4 extra dash-9 wieghts [/b]


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 18 May 2010 04:17 PM 
How many do you need ? Right now I have 4 extra dash-9 weights [/b]


I will probably need between 6 and 18 lead Dash-9/E-8 weights (units not sets). I may get by with one lead and two zinc weights per E-8 which would reduce the lead weights I will need to 6 (I have zinc weights coming). If that does not work I may need as many as 18 lead weights (3 per E-8). I won't know until the zinc weights get here and I get them installed.

Thanks,

Jerry

PS Did you get my email? Sometimes there is a problem with some servers rejecting emails from my phone company's server (CenturyLink).


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Regarding pulling power I've been playing with the SD-45's lately and I have been impressed with their pulling power. One SD-45 will pull 22 freight cars including a caboose UP MY RAMP and the other surprised me in that it will BACK UP the ramp with 12 reefers (with ball bearing wheels) and a caboose into the crawl space yard.

Impressive.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 18 May 2010 04:17 PM 
How many do you need ? Right now I have 4 extra dash-9 wieghts [/b]


I think I am going to be OK on weights. UPS dropped off more SD-45 lead weights today. As long as they fit in the E-8's I should be in good shape.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rex, I will take any lead weights you have off your hands.... bring them out with you to the coast. I prefer the Dash-9 ones, but I will stock up on the SD45 ones too, if nothing but for the future. 

Regards, Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

They're probably Greg's weights any way so make him pay for them Rex. 

Randy


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I can see it all now. We will start buying old SD45s and Dash 9s on ebay just for the lead weights. That is if any of them ever show up again. SD45s are very scarce.
Paul


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Why not use a few rolls of pennies?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Zinc is lighter than lead... in pennies, or new Aristo weights! 

Regards, Greg


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 21 May 2010 09:39 PM 
Regarding pulling power I've been playing with the SD-45's lately and I have been impressed with their pulling power. One SD-45 will pull 22 freight cars including a caboose UP MY RAMP and the other surprised me in that it will BACK UP the ramp with 12 reefers (with ball bearing wheels) and a caboose into the crawl space yard.

Impressive.

Jerry
Hmmmmmmm, just reading this post to see how you fellows are sorting weights out between you, and would just like to point out that a single SD-45 hauled 100 cars, on live TV, at the QM show just before they were shipped. The video was also posted here as well as on the AC site. I have five of them, and any of them, weights or not, will easily haul fifty metal-wheeled cars.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By bottino on 01 Jun 2010 08:17 PM 
SD45s are very scarce.
Paul 



I guess it depends on which SD-45's folks are looking for. I just checked the Aristo in-stock list and they show a lot of SD-45's.

http://www.aristocraft.com/instock/instock.pdf


ART22403 SD-45 DIESEL - ATSF/SANTA FE 480.00 
ART22405 SD-45 DIESEL - UNION PACIFIC 480.00
ART22406 SD-45 DIESEL - ERIE LACKAWANA 480.00
ART22409 SD-45 DIESEL - PRR 480.00
ART22425 SD-45 DIESEL GN 480.00 
I was mainly looking for UP and ATSF so in my case I was OK.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 02 Jun 2010 01:48 AM 
Hmmmmmmm, just reading this post to see how you fellows are sorting weights out between you, and would just like to point out that a single SD-45 hauled 100 cars, on live TV, at the QM show just before they were shipped. The video was also posted here as well as on the AC site. I have five of them, and any of them, weights or not, will easily haul fifty metal-wheeled cars.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund



I may have made an issue where none existed. In my case I just happen to have an unavoidable 10% ramp that I need to push/pull heavy streamliners and long trains up and into my crawl (storage) space. If it was not for that I would not need the lead weights - the zinc ones would have been fine and actually preferred.

Since I was able to get lead SD-45 weights, although I would have preferred lead Dash-9 weights I did not want to ask for them if I did not need them. I got an E-8 out but I have not taken it apart yet. I will know for sure this morning if the SD-45 weights fit in the E-8's.

In my opinion (based on limited experience) my E-8's and SD-45's need some weight (I'm not sure exactly how much) to maintain good contact with brass track and to go through my LGB R3 turnouts without any problems. I had poor track contact and derailments without any weights. If I recall correctly the SD-45's came with a single weight and the E-8's came with no weights. An E-8 with no weights will try to tilt when pulling heavy streamliners around a R3 curve - especially around a R3 curve when the rest of the train is being pulled up a 10% ramp.

If it were not for my 8' diameter curves and 10% ramp I would not want any unnecessary weights in the locos because more weight = more drag and more drag = more stress on the gears. 
I believe Lewis when he says that he had little choice regarding removing lead from the (toy) trains. That is the sort of law that would make sense to me. I doubt a law would make an exception for toy trains used mainly by adults. A few days ago I watched a video about repainting Tower Bridge. The painters had to create an airtight working area and vacuum up every bit of the old lead paint they removed from the bridge.


Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 17 May 2010 05:41 PM 
Jerry,[/b]
Yes the SD-45 wieghts will fit in the E-8's. If you can't find what you need, e-mail me and I'll check and see what I have stashed. I should have both Dash-9 and Sd45 wieghts. 
I have made 3 Santafe B-ubnit and 2 B&O B-units Thanks, Rex[/b]


Hi Rex,

I am very happy to confirm that the SD-45 lead weights fit nicely in the E-8's. 

With 6 lbs of weight in the Warbonnet E-8's they should have plenty of traction for each to haul six Streamliners up the 10% ramp.

The other E-8's won't be pulling as much weight so I will just put 4 lbs in them. 

It looks like I should be OK with the weights I now have.

Many thanks for your kind offer for your spare weights.

Regards,

Jerry


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I just found on ebay something interesting.
http://cgi.ebay.com/15LBS-LEAD-ALLO...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58880224f5
These are approximately one pound or "lead alloy" each. They look small enough to fit in an engine. I just searched for lead weights, and I got a lot of interesting lead items.

Paul


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Lead is (or at least used to be) available from a lot of sources. Back in the days when I cast my own bullets I often got lead from X-Ray departments of hospitals, lead weights from tire shops (they just threw them away) and various other sources. With today's restrictions of what can and cannot be put into landfills I suspect a lot of places with lead they want to get rid of would be happy to give it away. 

Any place with an X-Ray machine is going to have lead around. Some of the lead I got came from containers they shipped radioactive isotopes in. A hospital (even a doctor's office) with an X-Ray department that is being remodeled can be a gold mine as their walls are lined with lead.

With the current cost of gas and my low mileage vehicles it was easier and cheaper for me to just pay Aristo for the cost of shipping their lead weights to me. They came with the screws and washers I needed so that was one more thing I did not have to get somewhere.

Back when I had a company car (company gas) I would probably have looked around for free lead somewhere since I was going a lot of places anyway.


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