# Strap Rail?



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

As I'm building a railroad from the early 19th century (1830-1850) I thought that it would be great to use straprail instead of regular T-rail. From my research I have found that maybe 70 to 80 precent of the railroads at the time used straprail because T-rail and other types were too expensive and some had to be ordered from England. Some straprail was used all the way into the 1870's in small railroads and little used tracks. First I tried to make the straprail exactly like they did by taking a thin strip of iron and nailing it to a stringer. It worked but it wouldn't have lasted very long outside I think. The biggest problem was that it was a pain to make, not good if you need a whole bunch of it. I took a look around to see if there was anything pre-made that would work. The first thing I needed was a suitable metal strap for the straprail. The smallest square steel rod I found was 1/8" square. It turned out that the origional straprail was around 2.5 inches wide and in F-scale that would be real close to 1/8". Perfect! It was too thick though, so I thought that I could put a groove into the wooden rail stringer. In that way the rail would look thinner then it was and I get a good way to support the rail on the stringer. Next I needed to shape the wooden stringer so that there would be room for the wheel flange and the groove for the rail. I made a simple scraper with two different blades that would shape the wood. It worked, sort of, I wouldn't want to make all of my track this way. Because I didn't have a means to put notches into the ties for the stringers, I instead made some brackets that attach the stringers to the ties. I cast the brackets out of white metal, which was a pain as well. Also not a good idea for lots and lots of track.  Here are some pictures of both origional straprail and my creations so far:

Here is a picture of a small section of origional straprail that has been placed next to some T-rail:











Here is a diagram of straprail from around 1839:










Next is a diagram of how I'm thinking of making the straprail on my layout:










Here is the section of straprail I made:





































In the last image above is a gauge 1 Ozark Miniatures 10' gravel car I modified to look more like the early cars. This was before I deceided to go with F-gauge. I just supported the other side with a piece of wood so it was level.


Last is another section of track I did. This one is of cast iron fish-bellied rails that were used in the 1820's for tramways. The early locomotives had a tendancy to break these rails so they were not used. I like them so much I had to do a few though. It also gave me a good test case to learn how to cast white metal. The rails are not quite long enough for F-scale, but I think they came out pretty good. I did over do the rusting on them though. 



















So what do you think? Does it look feasable? Or am I totaly crazy? B) Thanks,

Jason


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks great! I'm not so sure about outdoors though. I've enough trouble with conventional hand laid track. 
Were you thinking ground level or raised? 

Harvey C.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I think what you done looks great. If you are going to use it out side I would put some kind of metal cross strip to hold the guage. You could do this so that it is burried in the ballast. Mabye a U shaped strip that is attached to the bottom of the rail then it could be hidden.


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder if the different expansion and contraction of the steel and the wooden stringer would cause problems? 
Or moisture wicking in under the steel? I seem to be full of cheerful thoughts this morning. 
I'ld lay about six feet this Fall and see what it's like come Spring. 
Looking forward to your experiments. I do love the early period, although I model narrow gauge. 

Harvey C.


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## Webber (Sep 4, 2008)

Beautiful work. Keep going. 

The original straps on top of rails would detach, wrap around a wheel and pierce into passenger coaches killing people and wrecking the impaled trains. This was so common the strap rail was commonly referred to as "snake heads". (see following two links) 

Railroad History Story: Strap Rail of the Southern Railroad[/b] 

History of the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad
By John F. Stover[/b] 

Metal tube will make "snake heads" almost impossible on the model railroad. You might want to use marine epoxy to join the bottom of the metal tube and the wood rail. (Make sure to clean up dribbles before it sets.) 

T-rails were not made of steel in your time frame due to high cost and inexperience in manufacturing rails of that type from that material. T-rails were mostly made of cast and rolled iron imported from Europe and made in the US until the patent ran out on the Bessemer steel process. After that about about 85% of all t-rails were converted to steel within 10 years. 

Your cast attachments are very similar to prototype "chairs". Check out English wood and strap rail practices for a wide range of "chairs" to hold wood and strap rails to stone (sleepers) and later to attach to wood ties. England had consumed most of its forests by this time. North America had abundant, low cost timber and used substantially less stone than England for Railroad track support. England was actually importing timber by then. Stone was more plentiful in England which gave them a reason to develop lots of clever ways to attach the wood and strap rails when iron rails were not being used. 

The prototype often used metal bars to keep the wood and strap rails in gauge when they didn't use wood ties. Your ties should provide good service for that purpose. Just like the prototype, you will have to check and maintain gauge for all the usual reasons such as weather, seasons, use, etc. 

How far apart are your ties? Which railroad/area of country are you modeling? 

Steam was considered unreliable and so most rail roads continued to build in a way that suited having the trains pulled by teams of horses. For instance the Camden and Amboy (pre-PRR) had both horse drawn and steam service for years. C&A charged different prices based on whether it was steam or horse drawn service. 

- Web


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason, that is a very ambitious project. What you've done so far is wonderful.







If you're going to run battery power, you should have no problem with it. 

Again, a wonderful job. Very well done and Welcome to MLS...


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I really like that style of track. Looks great. For curves you could laminate 3/16 x 3/8 preformed sections over a template. That would be easier than trying to make solid squares stay curved.

I wonder of Ozark Miniatures could do a limited production run of those brackets. 


I also like the "Skaneateles Bahn" track idea. I would use 3/8 x 1/8 metal bar pressed/epoxied into grooves in the wood. Just make sure the wheel flanges clear the wood rail.


Great job. Yours is going to be a sweet looking period set-up.

Bob


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Jason,

Please go to the 'stagecoach' thread and read my reply. Thank you for posting the drawing. I'm not smart enough to move my post here. And, welcome to the board!

If you read my reply on the other thread--I'm an older guy and my mind lags, or I'dve come here first before replying--you'll be up to speed on what I'm doing. Nothing, practically speaking. I am finally nearing getting my shop & house repaired after a highwater incident, it's coming along, but slowly.

Strap iron track is what I'm going to use for my ca 1875 (that's 1834 to 1899) SL PP indoor RR. Overall, I'm new to G gauge and new to kitbashing modelling. I settled on strap rail because of the very high price of brass rail, and because I'm a retired tool & die maker, and I don't find making track a particularly overwhelming job. I described in my other post how I intend to go about it. I will repeat here that I am going to use flattened 12 ga solid copper house wiring for the strap rails.

I like the 'chairs' (already mentioned) that you've made, and the 'fish belly' rails are unique-looking. Wish I could think of an easy way to make 'em.

Being outdoors, of course, presents a whole new set of problems already mentioned that I won't have to deal with. But good luck, and I'll get started on a switch of my own from your posting--it's high time I did!









Oh, FWIW: there are no frogs on stub switches that I'm aware of. That's one of the beauties of a hand-built stub sw. 

Les


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks everyone, 

hcampbell - I'm having the same reservations about putting the rail outside, It's going to be an experiment that's for sure.  I'm not a fan of a raised roadbed so I'm planning on putting in a ground level layout. I was concerned too about expansion issues, I was thinking that I might glue the rails to the stringers using some kind of silicon cement. That way it would allow the rail to move a bit and give some water protection at the same time. I'm just not sure just how rugged it would be, or how well it would last in the sun? 


Web - My ties in the example above are 3' apart prototypically but I'm thinking of going to 5' on the layout. I'm thinking that it might help with the curves and allow the stringers to naturally widen the curve a bit. I'm thinking of basing most of my layout on the B&O and the C&A, although not exactly. I still haven't decided what I'm going to call it yet.  Thanks for the links, more data for the pile!


Stan - Thanks, I'm planning on live steam, so we will see how far I get. 

Bob - Thanks for the ideas. I'm going to need as many as I can get my grubby paws on for this project. I like the idea of laminating the curves, but I worry that it would become next to impossible to shape them after curving them. I like the "Skaneateles Bahn" track too, although I think it was hardwood rails on top of softer wood stringers. That rail I think was considered the cheapest of the cheap. 


Les - Flattened copper wire for the rails, whew that sounds like a lot of work. It should work well for you though like you said with an indoor layout. Please post some pictures when you get some of it finished. How do you plan on attaching the rail to the stringers? It's ironic isn't it, I'm mostly doing strap rail becuase that is what they used back them, but I'm also doing it for the cost. It was cheap back then and it's cheap (relatively) now too.  I understand where you are coming from on the straprail switch. I did run across this picture of a more modern stub rail switch here:


Three way stub switch


You can see the plates for the rails to slide on like you were talking about. And you can see the bars connecting the rails to keep them in gauge too. I'm not quite seeing that on the straprail switch diagram, but I can see how it would make a better switch for sure. The author who copied the diagram did say that there were parts that he thought were wrong, so I'm not sure just how accurate the diagram is. More to think about eh? 


Well, here is my plan so far:

The weather here in Fairbanks ranges from -60 in the winter to +90 in the summer so that is going to be **** on any track I put outside. I'm thinking of doing short segments of track (3 feet long) that I can take apart in the fall and store for the winter. Then in the spring I can fix the roadbed and lay the segments down again. I'm thinking of basing the track on 2x4's or plywood, using pins to keep the alignment between the segments and holding them together with some kind of latch. I would need to water proof the base with something, also the ties and stringers. The ties would have slots cut into them to keep the stringers in gauge and be nailed to the base. The stringers would be glued to the ties with some kind of water-proof glue (silicon?) and the strap rails would be then glued to the stringers. 


There are some advantages to this scheme, in that I could be fixing and maintaining track during the winter. The real pain will be having to take it up every fall and put it all back in the spring. I was also thinking I might be able to cover it during the winter but I don't know if that would help any. Any of the other methods of constructing track probably will not work here, I would have to dig down about 4' just to get below the frost line here for example. So how does this sound?


Jason


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Jason posted: " Les - Flattened copper wire for the rails, whew that sounds like a lot of work. It should work well for you though like you said with an indoor layout. Please post some pictures when you get some of it finished. How do you plan on attaching the rail to the stringers? It's ironic isn't it, I'm mostly doing strap rail becuase that is what they used back them, but I'm also doing it for the cost. It was cheap back then and it's cheap (relatively) now too.  I understand where you are coming from on the straprail switch. I did run across this picture of a more modern stub rail switch here:


No, flattening isn't much work as I have a slip roll, a metal-bending tool that, if the rollers are progressively tightened, it flattens the copper wire just fine, perhaps half a dozen passes. I do it in 18" sections, until it mikes out at ~ 0.015". I may modify that when I get started. I did it because I think it's pretty close to the cheap black plastic track that I want to build a test track from. I'm going to look up a scale length for 20', and cut 'em to that length after flattening. To solder the ends--which I will scarf first, I'll build a resistance soldering tool as discussed on the board about a year ago, if I can't get away with a soldering *iron* (not gun). I'll attach the rail by drilling small, chamfered holes for the nails. Brads, actually.

That pic of the switch network looks like a tramway, but I'm not sure what difference that would make. I don't think those are 'frogs' in the commonly-accepted term. They may be, I'm sure not an expert. At any rate, I intend to lay gaurd rails because I happen to think they look cool, not because I'll have any derailment problems, of course.









One thing I know I'll have to do is, if you look on the first switch dwg you sent over (a Godsend), you'll see the rails are cut at the end where they pivot. I'll have to do that with the copper, because I don't think it'll flex laterally worth a darn. I bet the iron didn't, either, in some cases. Since I'm using track power, there's another connection I'll have to solder with stranded, non-tinned wire.

If you're going for outside operation, I'd do what another guy suggested: lay six or 8 feet of the stuff and see how it winters over. I'm a firm believer in linseed oil, so I'd paint the wood with several coats of that.

Oh, before I forget: on that switch drawing, one can decrease the felt pressure on the switch throw by means of a bellcrank. I bet that's what I'm gong to have to do, to reduce strain on the small-gauge metal pieces. But I'll try it w/o, first.

Lastly, instead of buying chairs or making them, the drawing showed a triangular piece of wood block laid as a brace. It shouldn't be too hard to make a bunch, or make an entire length, depending on taste--though those you made are certainly eye-catchers.

Les


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice touch and looks good. Just curious as how pricey the track will be and how much you plan to lay. later RJD


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Your track looks terrific! 

Les, 

Way back when I modeled 3 rail, I built my own center rail using 14 gauge Romex grounding wire left over from wiring my basement. The wire is held up over the ties by small pieces of romex, cut at a sharp angle so they stick in the ties and then soldered to the top. The copper was a better conductor than the tinplate rails!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Another case of sheer genius.

I want to play around with minimum radius curves, initially for the 45mm gauge, but also eventually for the two smaller ones. I think I you just tipped me to a faster method of investigating this. All my stuff is light & short & will run slow, so weight and longevity are not issues.

A timely post. Thank you.









Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Oh, forgot, I've played with Romex in the past, making things like handrails, ladders, etc. I used to use a sledge and chunk of 1:1 rail and pound flat. 

But, I found for more consistent results, I use my 6-ton shop press for flattening. This would make excellent material for strap rail, IMO, although it may turn green outside over time, unless you chemically alter it


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

What kind of 6 ton press do you have? I bought one of the HF ones a few months ago, the little bench-top one, and it's pretty handy. The only thing is lack of throat clearance, so I found a handful of old drift & center punches and used my metal chop saw to cut the 'handles' to about an inch or so, depending on how long the punch part is. They work pretty well.

The Romex I used turned out very well: it only varies ~ .002" thickness when using the slip roll. And it looks just fine. Also bends easily laterally for curves. If a guy wanted really cheap track, 12ga works out to fit nearly perfectly over the top of the rail.

Now, noting all these track benders that've been shown: why couldn't a guy take a bit heavier (but still offshore) vise, mount a pair of steel rollers and make a light-duty slip roll that way? Getting them to run true would be the trickiest part.

Les


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

That sounds great Les, I did one small section of rail like you are going to do with brads. But it was such a pain to do and it was hard to get the consistency I wanted. You are a much more patient man then me, and to make it powered too.  I have been toying with stamping spike heads on to the rail I'm using to give it a little more detail.

I'm not sure about the frogs for the switch, especially with strap rail. I did find two pictures of strap rail frogs, but these were not used with wooden stringers, instead they were used with granite stringers. 


















I suppose that they could be lain onto wooden blocks or short stringers? Either way you would need some way for the tracks to cross each other. That is true, I should just make some track and leave it outside for the winter and see how it fares. It's going to have to wait a bit, right now I'm still getting the tools that I need. I'm really looking forward to see how you make your switches and how they work. Thanks for the compliment on the chairs/brackets, but they were just too much of a pain to do. I have pretty much decided that I'm going to just cut slots into the ties for the stringers. When I think that I might ending up doing several hundred feet of track this sounds much better, even if it will not look as nice. 


aceinspp - Thanks, the price of the track will mostly be my time, although I think it will be about 2$ to 3$ a foot in raw materials.

SE18 - Thanks, I like your "third rail", for some reason it looks much more prototypical then using the normal rail in the middle. 


Jason


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Jason, 

Great photos/information. The stone sleepers are especially intriguing. If I were to do it outside, I'd build a concrete roadbed and cast concrete sleepers atop so there'd be firm foundation, set at ground level and then ballasted. You've got me thinking of the many possibilities. 

I look forward to your progress and hope you stay on track with this project. 

Les, 

It's the low-end A frame bottle jack variety with only about 4" clearance. It's probably the tool (besides the router) that I've had the most fun with. For example, in the photo, I'm flattening copper plumbing pipe to use for making some 18" gauge Horwich rotating tippers, used in the UK. I've also made different sized washers by flattening thin sections of metal rods. Eventually, I'm going to try some metal pressing operations with dies. I may even use it to squeeze some lemons for lemonade


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Jason,

Re the frogs: I was wrong about there being no need for frogs. Your switch pic was the *first* of its kind I've seen, and I failed to notice adequately the way the diverging rails are set up. This would in fact need a frog, or, as some switches do it, where the frog is located there is a short section of track that is coupled by means of bars, and pinned off center, so that when the 'main line' switch is thrown, the 'frog' piece of rail is also swung over to realign with the now-diverging track. It is a section of the main track, normally. Then there is the 'diverging' switch, where the both tracks coming in are swung the full gauge to meet the diverging track. There are pictures of both two sets of rails,and three sets (the middle one beeing the through line). Then there's another oddity of a switch that words fail me, when my daugther comes over I'll have her post my collection so you can see what I'm trying to describe.

I did start on the switch day before yesterday. That is, I figured out the dimensions of the pieces, ties, etc, and found a piece of luan to mount everything on. Then I realized I'd erred in not making the switch ties longer, so that'll be a cut-n-try operation for today. The first thing that struck me was the potential *size* of this rascal.

This is the second G project I've tried. And the first 'scale model' of something I've attempted in over 50 years. I have the HF mini-table saw and the wood chop saw, which I believe I'll try out. If they do as well as preliminary fooling around indicates, I'm going to post on them over in 'Tools'.

I am not going to use slots in the rails. Since this is the first-off, there's too much cut-n-try involved. The thing about slots in the ties that is good is, it keeps the gauge honest.

Bob *did* come up with a winner of a technique with that romex, didn't he? It has really lit my imagination, I think it would be very useful in actually doing mockups of various radii curves.

I will post my pixes soon. Perhaps I'll even have a shot or two of the switch in-work.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bob,

Yeah, I've got the same one. My first actual use was, I needed a cupped washer (lost one of the four I had) so I found an old punch and ground it to a suitable-looking profile and made the washer. Came out perfect. The only thing those presses need is a little deeper throat, and by replacing the legs with longer ones, that should fix it.

I think MicroMark sells a set of Ball 'hole closers' in different diameters, and it struck me that those would do well with that press for minor shaping.

Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Les 

I thought the same thing. I've got a ball from a trailer hitch, ready to use. I've also collected bits of steel in various shapes to be utilized as pressing masters. The 4" is problematic. I'd like to see your solution if you do an extension. 

Sorry for deviating from the main topic 

Dave Vergun 

oh, btw, 

Guy named Roger (alias Mecanotrain from France) on 7/8 forum: http://www.7-8ths.info/index.php?topic=16680110.0 which you need to join to access, has a homemade 20-ton shop press that he uses to make steam locomotives. 

Here’s some of his work: 























































in the latter example, you can see how he uses the press in place of a brake


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dave Vergun = SE18? Oops, I think I got some names swapped in my head. Apologies all around.

Lengthening the press (increasing throat) is going to be a matter of just going down to the metal yard and buying the proper size angle, drilling it, etc, and painting. The thing is, that's going to be a tad expensive, for what they charge for metal around here.

The question niggling in my head is, why not get four pieces of this holey stock from the hardware store, as is used in garage door bracing and other home jobs. If you consider that the force is all tensional above the pins--between the pins for the table and the top brace for the jack--I can't see a lot of hazard. Plus, the six tons would be divided by four legs. I don't know, I might be all wet, been down in the shop cutting stock for that stub switch and doing other things that fell to hand, and I'm wiped out.

I did discover that luan is just enough wider than the copper strips to make pretty plausible 'rails'. It has an added feature that it bends fairly readily.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Luan would work indoors for the rails cut with the grain. 

I used luan to make ties for an abandoned railroad (I think I may be the only one who ever did a complete layout of an abandoned RRâ€"no operating hassles like power or derailments or pesky trains to buy). I dyed the luan with black coffee 














































notice that trucks have replaced trains, just like in real life 

the advantage of using lauan for the rails below the straps would be as you mention, the quarter-inch height, as well as the low cost of lauan at the Big Boxes


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## Treeline (Sep 7, 2009)

http://www.dochemp.com/switch.html 
http://mysite.du.edu/~jcalvert/railway/amwood.htm 

I do not know if you have looked at the above sites. They also have references to other sites that may be of interest. 
I am new to this(first post), but the topic of RR history interests me. 
Though I have not used it would any of the new pvc wood or trim be ripped to size for outdoor use 

Roger


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

That's some excellent work. An abandoned RR would be about my speed, come to think of it.









Black coffee, huh? I'm thinking the luan rails would have to be soaked to be bent, or at least wetted, and black coffee would about as cheap a coloring agent as one could hope to find, I think.

Thanks for the great pixes.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Roger,

First, welcome to the site!









Are you a modeller, or going to be one? Tell us a bit about your layout or plans, in the event you don't have one up yet. RR interests, whatnot.

Thanks for the links, I'll go have a look.

Les Whitaker


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## Treeline (Sep 7, 2009)

From what I've read on one site or another: Frogs were made of oak or other hard wood (too soft): 
from cast iron(too brittle); or formed by mitering to shape and bolting or riveting together. 
Any bending or metal work could be done by a blacksmith with a forge. 
From the photo posted it looks like angle iron for rail head with the L protecting the flange way, I think 
I see the bolts and the holes to connect to the next rail. 

For modeling file the rail ends to shape, cut a piece of tin or brass to shape and solder it on, be sure to cut 
the flange ways deep enough. 

I hope I'm adding something usefull 

Roger


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Treeline,

I see you're new to the board. Welcome!







This is a friendly place where I believe about any question can get an answer in different forums.

About the stub switch: Grimm posted that last week. It was the first of its kind I'd seen, and I have several pixes of stubs in my file. It is a hand drawn one and has a few iffy places. But it's a great advance over what I had. It served to get me started, at any rate.









Les


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## Mark L Horstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Grimm on 10 Oct 2009 01:28 AM 
Or am I totaly crazy?
Yes, you are.

And thank-you - this is a fascinating thread.


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

SE18 - Very nice, I like your layout. What did you use for the water? 

Roger - Thanks for the links and your insight on the switch frogs. I'm going to need as much help as I can to do this project. Looks like Les agrees too. 


Mark - LOL  Thanks.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Grimm & Roger,

Those are nice pixes, and the dwg G. posted broke me free, I'm now in the process of building my first strap-rail switch. (I've been busy getting my son married off, but now maybe I can submerge back into my pool of peace 'n quiet).

Speaking of which, G., I think there's more to the placement of those rivets on the sliding plates: I _think _they might be offset enough on each tie to help the curve form as the rail is bent, and stabilized on both rails. But I've got to build one and fiddle with it.

I will post the pixes I have once my daughter flits back into realtime. What is it about weddings that send females into erractic orbits?









Les


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Sounds good Les, I'm really anticipating your pictures. It's going to be a while before I will be able to start work on any more track. I am going to start my snowplow now that I have the wheelsets. Lots of fun!  


Jason


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Mark, thanks, epoxy. 

Les, I too looking forward to your project. I'm guessing you'll be rolling Romex with your roller dealy.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Jason,

Well, so far I've gotten the rough stock cut to manageable lengths, then things came to a halt while I got my son married off. (Whew!)








'Bout time, he had life too good. On the morning of his wedding, the tranny shot craps in his 4 wheeler.

Again, as soon as I can toss a net over my daugther, I'll have her send every pic on switches I have, perhaps 5 or 6. Right now I'm stopped because the weather has been good and I've been outside.

Re the frog question: I have one that shows how a frog was more or less eliminated by a swivelling piece of track connected to the main throw, but a pic is worth many words in this case.

I am somewhat surprised (amazed?) at the sheer size of this thing.

You'll need that snowplow.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

SE,

I have a sliproll that works just fine, but think I already said that. (Memory). Yes, the flat stuff I've already rolled looks very good on the top edge of a piece of luan. It's I/W, but slowly. Since I've never even built and laid a piece of track in this scale (I doubt Lionel 027 counts ) there's a lot of guessing and fumbling.

One thing I've found on the romex is, if you can get straight, unkinked pieces they roll out much more smooth-looking than if the length has been wadded up, as with my first tries. The next will also have some bends, but I'll take more effort to straighten them on the anvil, or maybe use the new HF small press I got the other day.

Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Les,

For your curved sections, you'd probably first curve the romex to the desired radius then run it thru the roller as it might be hard to bend the flatten romex sideways. 


I'd like to try some strap rail outside but haven't yet considered how to adhere the strap metal to the wood rails. I'm thinking that caulking would eventually lift up. It would be hard to countersink screws as the strap metal would be thin to begin with. Indoors would be pretty easy with glue.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Actually, bending the romex after flattening isn't a big thing. I ran a few pieces at ~ 18" and carefully curved them using thumbs and fingers, and a single piece of plastic track as a guide. Worked like a charm. I just took it slow.

I intend to use countersunk nails to hold mine down. I may add glue, but I want to see how well it works w/o. I will dip the nails in glue before putting them in. It may not work. Small nailheads (actually tack heads) aren't very thick. But I'll have to see. Also, I'll scarf the edges of the two meeting copper tracks and solder them at the scarf. It may be too fragile and I'll have to add a piece of wire underneath, which would mean a clearance groove along the rail which likely can be pressed in since it's the rough edges of the ply, not the finished surface. It'll depend on the glue and lamination at that particular spot. If too hard, I'll touch a Dremel to it until it the track & wire lay flat.

The surprising thing is the bigness of it. I tossed down some flat stock just to get an idea. If I build the switch to use as a passing siding, I'll need abt 8 inches between centers--all my r/s will be small, no huge passenger cars. Before I go much further, I've got to get a wider piece of luan for the base.

On outside track ... I don't know. I think red or white cedar or the like would be almost mandatory, not my humble furring strips. If you flatten copper, I don't see any worse problem than the brass track. I think using steel is going to cause grief, if you're depending on electical p/u from the rails, as I am.

Les


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I look forward to seeing pics of how your curve track comes out, I've always wondered how strap rail track was curved


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Vic,

Well, 'how strap was curved' was by muscle.







Seriously, I'm glad you chimed in. I need to know two things: 1) how small a radius have you successfully run through switches on, and 2) what is the overall len/width of those (lovely) steam critters (sans tenders)?

To answer your question, Jason Gibbs (may have that last name wrong--apologies, memory of the aged) sent me a photo of a drawing that shed an entirely new light on moving stub switches. This one shows metal straps under the rails (including the wood). A careful study of the drawing tells me it is incomplete and has some possible errors and certainly some omissions, but the general idea is pretty plain: the wooden rails, not including the ties, slid on iron strapping--as opposed to a plate switch, with its bottom plate. What is left out as far as I can tell w/o building one is a method for holding the gauge, namely, iron bars w. bolts between the rails. Also, there needs to be a way to 'set' some kind of curvature along the radius. Lastly, there's the problem of the frog, from the way the drawing is--it does not depict a 'Y' (wye).

Second, the rails appear to be single pieces of lumber, rather than layered as in the later logging roads, but this is a very early switch. Yet, bending even three 4x8'x ?L (the unplaned dims) isn't as hard as you'd think, I've worked with pieces of oak that size and it's easier than you might think--single pieces. With multiples, I'd have had to have help. 20 ft and up are better than short, under that length. But there's no data suggesting multiple layers on a switch in the logging industry, either.

Which causes another problem: short lengths of wood don't bend well. That's one of the tradeoffs of scaling down. My original thougth was to pin the wood rails so they'd rotate at the mainline, but the drawing also shows cut switch rails with blocking.

You might be wondering, "what about the copper? How often will it flex?" Ans: I don't know. I'll have to build one and see. But cutting the rail and joining it with a loop of stranded wire seems a good option. If I were to anneal it after flattening, it might last.

I haven't decided on a radius yet. I think for the first one it'll be a nice, safe 24". 

Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Les, 

I've got an idea for securing the copper straps (flat Romex) to the wood rails. Get some copper nails or make your own like I showed on one of the previous pages of this post. The twist would be to turn the nails into screws. Screw these into the wood rail. Then, drill a hole in the copper strip at the point of the hole and solder thru the hole to the nail head. The solder will bond the nail head to the copper strip. Any excess at the top can be filed off. The wood rail may be too narrow to take standard copper roofing nails so might be better to make your own with the romex by using a die at one end for the screw and flattening the other end by holding it in a vice, so there's some surface to solder. You could probably get away with securing the copper strips with the copper nails every 8-12 inches. And, for good measure, you could add some adhesive. 

Another option might be to simply solder copper roofing nails to the outside of the strip, away from where the flanges need to go, and then pound (or gently push) these into the ties.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Les, the smallest switches I have are R1 LGBs, the steam critters are built on HLW Mack chassis, I'll have to measure a Mack and get back to you.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

SE,

That is an excellent suggestion, using copper nails soldered to the rails. Certainly that's worth trying. What if one splayed the 'head' of the spike with a center punch? All one would need is a blind hole in a piece of metal. Now that I think some, the ctr punch wouldn't even be necessary: just get some kind of flared or partially-flared head on one end of the nail, then insert into the copper rail and push into the wood rail. Then solder. If the flare were small enough and sharp enough (a tricky thing, I concede) it'd tend to force the hole in the copper rail enough to get mostly level. THen solder and file if necessary. With a simple jig, a whole length of rail might be made up with soldered nails, then applied to the wooden rail with or w/o adhesive. Yes, a really great idea. 

Les


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Les, 
Consider small brass tubing, Ace carries it, and being thinner is much easier to solder to, than wire. You could punch thru your strap into the tube for a physical bond inforced with enough solder to seal the hole. 

I'm finnishing up om a steam tubine water pump with a fire monitor mounted on my water car. Except for the copper water pump, which I formed in 2 halves by dapping in a carved fibre board, it's all brass tubing and brass sheet and Special Shape's brass diamond tread 'n structural shapes... pics will be in the proper thread. 

John


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

John, 

Good idea. I've found, however, that soldering to Romex is quick and easy too, as you can see from my track pictures on a previous page in this post. 

I do, OTOH, have small copper tubing for other scratch-building products. Got it from the plumbing section of Lowe's. Not too expensive, considering the price of brass from a hobby shop.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Ace carries the K & S tubing at more reasonable prices...pretty sure Home Disapointment does too. 

Les had mentioned the centerpuch and I thought the tubing would work, the copper tubing is probably too soft to hammer into. For part of my project I flared and compressed tubing for a cast metal look. It withstood working between a steel hammer and my polished steel dapping set. What I mean is only the area I was hammering or dapping moved and the tube stayed true. 

For those that don't know what a dapping set is 1. a steel plate or block with a variety of half round holes and half round grooves. The other parts are nearly full profile round balls on steel shanks. The shanks are used in the grooves. Tempered masonite makes a good base for carved shapes. 

Funny thing about Romex, from what I've heard, is it's the plastic coating that gives the name, not the copper wire! Unless free, bulk electrical might be better. 

The tubing I use ranges from 1/32nd" to infinity and beyond... er... largest I've used is under an inch, but there may be more. I like it for plumbing, because it telescopes snugly. Slice and dice some elbows and tees solder 'em up and slide the pipes together. Brass washers drilled and pinned make good flanges... 

I like your solution, nice and neat! 

Except you have space aroud your joints, I think tubing can be soldered in place. If Les uses a narrow taper punch with a sharp flat cuttiing edge on it, it should stretch some copper into the hole as it punches through, the taper will stretch it to hug the tube. A tinned narrow round tip on a small iron stuck in the hole should solder it up and not burn the wood under it. Drill holes for the tubes, file flush. Best if you make a jig so the hole and punch line up. The torn part should be less than .005"thick, like a burr left behind. If that is too dicey, drill the hole in your strap first and then use each strap as a jig to drill your wooden rails, then insert tubing and use wire to fill tube and hole in strap, solder. File and burnish smooth, whether or not the tube gets soldered depends on the size of your iron, this way bigger is better as the plugging wire must carry the heat. Pick your tubing by the size of the wire, snug fit is best. Are you listening Les? 

I'm assuming that Ol' Vulp the machinist can visualise what I'm saying...lol 

John


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

John

Pictures usually help. Here are some examples of dapping blocks and punches





































They come in wood also.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

John,

There's only one small flaw in your suggestion of brass over copper: the copper is free. Certainly if I had no scrap copper wire lying around, I'd probably go for brass.

But, hey, thanks for thinking of me!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 22 Oct 2009 02:27 PM 
Ace carries the K & S tubing at more reasonable prices...pretty sure Home Disapointment does too. 

Les had mentioned the centerpuch and I thought the tubing would work, the copper tubing is probably too soft to hammer into. For part of my project I flared and compressed tubing for a cast metal look. It withstood working between a steel hammer and my polished steel dapping set. What I mean is only the area I was hammering or dapping moved and the tube stayed true. 

For those that don't know what a dapping set is 1. a steel plate or block with a variety of half round holes and half round grooves. The other parts are nearly full profile round balls on steel shanks. The shanks are used in the grooves. Tempered masonite makes a good base for carved shapes. 

Funny thing about Romex, from what I've heard, is it's the plastic coating that gives the name, not the copper wire! Unless free, bulk electrical might be better. 

The tubing I use ranges from 1/32nd" to infinity and beyond... er... largest I've used is under an inch, but there may be more. I like it for plumbing, because it telescopes snugly. Slice and dice some elbows and tees solder 'em up and slide the pipes together. Brass washers drilled and pinned make good flanges... 

I like your solution, nice and neat! 

Except you have space aroud your joints, I think tubing can be soldered in place. If Les uses a narrow taper punch with a sharp flat cuttiing edge on it, it should stretch some copper into the hole as it punches through, the taper will stretch it to hug the tube. A tinned narrow round tip on a small iron stuck in the hole should solder it up and not burn the wood under it. Drill holes for the tubes, file flush. Best if you make a jig so the hole and punch line up. The torn part should be less than .005"thick, like a burr left behind. If that is too dicey, drill the hole in your strap first and then use each strap as a jig to drill your wooden rails, then insert tubing and use wire to fill tube and hole in strap, solder. File and burnish smooth, whether or not the tube gets soldered depends on the size of your iron, this way bigger is better as the plugging wire must carry the heat. Pick your tubing by the size of the wire, snug fit is best. Are you listening Les? 

I'm assuming that Ol' Vulp the machinist can visualise what I'm saying...lol 

John 


John,

I understand what you're saying. The reason I was thinking of a center punch is, I was going to chamfer a nail-sized hole in a piece of steel, (after selecting the nail, of course) and 'bap' it with a center punch so the head flared upwards somewhat like an inside-out umbrella. Then I was going to drill the copper track which is .015" T, and insert nail into hole, and press into wood rail, (with or w/o glue) an then 'set' it with a flat punch. The nail of course is a copper or brass one, I have a wide selection of each. Then SE mentioned using lengths of copper wire for nails and a light bulb went off in my head: why not cut short lengths of copper, set them in a hole as one would with rivet-making, oversize the hole near the top a few thou (some experimentation here) then slip the 'spike' that now has a golf-tee shape (hopefully) into the track, and press it into the wooden rail. It'd swage the hole in the copper rail just enough for a firm fit, could be soldered. Or, solder a series of them on the strap on the bench and then press into the wooden rail.

'Ol Vulp' gets your drift just fine. Thanks.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Steve,

Again, thanks for posting pixes. I'd really like a set of dapping blocks and tools, but yo, I bet they'd cost a bunch. I've toyed with the notion of making a block and tools out of some walnut I have, I'm sure for very light metals they'd work okay.

Les


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks Steve, 
I haven't mastered posting pics yet, no matter what I try they come up in reverse order.... besides didn't have a pic on hand. 
The wooden ones are mostly used to get dents out of watch cases. 
Les, 
you're not working with precious metals... google Discount jewelry supplies. There are less expensive ones from india than those shown, plus smaller sets. Old ball point pens used to have brass tubes of ink.... just thinkin' ....lol 

The only problem I foresee is when you flatten the nail head, the strap will bulge around it, might need to drag a file along the sides to take off the bumps... 

Alternative; Drill your straps, use as guide to drill wooden rails, solder copper wire in holes, press into wood, file flush. 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Les, 
Use Stay-brite silver bearing solder if you can, it's stronger and should help cope with pounding drivers. Can be used with a torch. 

John


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 22 Oct 2009 07:10 PM 
Les, 
Use Stay-brite silver bearing solder if you can, it's stronger and should help cope with pounding drivers. Can be used with a torch. 

John 



John,

My little 0-4-0's aren't going to do much rail pounding.









Les


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I know you are more critter motivated... but you did express concern over the strap joints and I wanted to point you to a stronger solder than rosin core.. 

Take it or leave it... buddy. 

John


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Steve, 

Thanks for posting those photos. What are they used for and in what instances would model railroad scratch builders use them? I'm guessing for stuff like steam locomotive sand domes and the smaller ones for rivets, especially large rivets like those found on compressed air steam locomotives (fireless)


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 23 Oct 2009 11:12 AM 
Steve, 

Thanks for posting those photos. What are they used for and in what instances would model railroad scratch builders use them? I'm guessing for stuff like steam locomotive sand domes and the smaller ones for rivets, especially large rivets like those found on compressed air steam locomotives (fireless) They are mainly used in jewelry making (e.g. forming hollow beads etc.), and most likely many other uses I'm not aware of. Since John spent 20+ years in that occupation he'd likely have a much better explanation than I.

As for their use in scratch building relative to model railroading. I guess, as with most tools it depends a lot on the task at hand and your inventiveness on applying the tools available to accomplish the task.

While the smaller sizes might be used for creating embossed simulated rivets. I think you'll find that there are more ways of doing this than there are 'ways to skin a cat' as the old adage goes, and those methods will cover a very wide range.

For example...
[*] The creator of the MLS MasterClass scratch building articles David Fletcher one very fine modeler, uses nothing more than a blunted nail and a wood backing to do much of his rivet detailing on styrene.
[*] Then there's the Drop-Hammer type that Peter Bunce uses.
*Drop-Hammer Rivet Maker*

[*] Then there's the semi-automated type that I and Bruce Chandler have.
*NWSL - SensiPress & The Riverter*

[*] Then if you want to go 'All Out' you can go CNC.








Computer Controlled Rivet Embossing Machine[/b] 
[/list]


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Hmmm don't remember ever making a bead... 

I only identified them because I was suggesting that a tube would withstand Les' building plans. This was the Thread connection. 



I was making a tube round ended on one end and flared on the other, I drove (hammered) the tube down into a tight circle depression and uniformly bent the edge inwards on a smooth radius, 360 degrees.. I was making a reduction for a smaller pipe to be soldered in the end. If I wanted a half dome the I'd saw out a rough circle to barely drop in a hole and using a ball less than twice the thickness of the metal (2 sides) to the hole, I'd hammer the ball in. A file or sand paper will true the edge, then solder to the tube If you want it smaller drop in the next size down. On the other end I used a progression of larger balls, I only went two sizes so I skipped anealing the brass. Too much and the metal tears... Practice will tell you which hole and the size ofthe metal disc, from low dome to half round... I'll use a felt tip pen on a ball to visualise the dome. Plastic circle drawing guides (archetectural / mechanical drawing aid) makes that even faster... 

If you think of other shapes than circles they can be dapped too. The grooves should be self explanatory. Flat curves and other shapes.

Cut out an 'O', center open and make the transition between boiler courses.

Reflectors, tank ends, banding, water pump.... a water pump? A cast iron centrifical pump on a modified Turbette steam turbine...stay tuned... not sure I like the steam exhaust yet... dang inspiration rarely arrives on my timetable! 

You can make a free form depression in masonite (tempered masonite if making more than a couple) and use the balls to drive a soft metal into the void, I like copper sheet... it was free. I used a ball burr in my foredom (similar to Dremel, cept variable foot controled speed and jacobs chuck) to carve out the shape. Use a sheet bigger than the hole and clamp down the edges.. I get lazy and hammer the sides flat as I work the metal, instead of clamps....comes with experience... when satisfied I cut it out of the sheet with a ....jeweler's saw of course! 

If you are going to make beads drill at least 1 hole before soldering, helps during soldering, hot air goes out the hole and not through hot solder! 

The wooden set is primarily to remove dents from watch cases, doesn't affect engraving, harder to use for shaping. 

Hope this helps all you modelers... there are enough jewelers! lol My shop is dual purpose.... 

John


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 23 Oct 2009 11:12 AM 
Steve, 

Thanks for posting those photos. What are they used for and in what instances would model railroad scratch builders use them? I'm guessing for stuff like steam locomotive sand domes and the smaller ones for rivets, especially large rivets like those found on compressed air steam locomotives (fireless) Oops, here's one I forgot to include in the above reply. It's a copy of a reply posted by Howard Maculsay on making a fixture/jig to be used with a drill press for embossing rivets.

Rivet Embossing Fixture
For Use With A Drill Press
File Type: PDF - File Size: 3MB
Left-click to open / Right-click to download[/b]


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 23 Oct 2009 08:24 AM 
I know you are more critter motivated... but you did express concern over the strap joints and I wanted to point you to a stronger solder than rosin core.. 

Take it or leave it... buddy. 

John 



John,

All advice I get is welcome. Now, is that 'critter motivated' or 'a motivated critter'?









Vulp


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Les, 
Ask your better half.... lol


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## Treeline (Sep 7, 2009)

Just a thought ; drill the through wooden rail for copper wire spaced for anchors, chamfer holes top and bottom, cut 1 to11/2"" lengths of wire, insert in holes, solder to copper rail, pull copper anchor tight from the bottom, cut anchors to length and crimp or peen the bottom to hold. 
This method would leave the top of the rail smooth for easier cleaning and less arcing and pitting with electric power. If wanted the copper rail could be dimpled with a center punch to simulate spikes. 
For an alternate rail material check the welding supply section of the store for 1/8 x .050 flat brazing rod, I found 10 18 in. pieces per pack for $20, a bit pricey but maybe for an inside display. 

Grimm, sorry I didn't say this earlier, what you have done is great work, gives me something to work towards. 

Roger


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Roger wrote: "Just a thought ; drill the through wooden rail for copper wire spaced for anchors, chamfer holes top and bottom, cut 1 to11/2"" lengths of wire, insert in holes, solder to copper rail, pull copper anchor tight from the bottom, cut anchors to length and crimp or peen the bottom to hold."

Roger,

There's a good thought. The only problem I can foresee is that the copper 'through-rods' might split the wooden rail material, in this case Luan when they got peened.

OTOH, take your idea and go the other way: first, cut the copper rods, leaving enough to bend on the bottom. Or bend 'em first on a jig. Shove them through the rail and the copper strap, and solder, then smooth with a dremel or file. Then go back and 'clinch' all the bends into the wood to snug the copper down.

That's a very good idea, thanks for posting. I've decided to build a length of straight track and a length of curved first, wading off into that switch is a tad deep for me. Heh, I laid it out and realized a day later it was the wrong 'hand', the turnout was facing wrong for its place on the board.

Les


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a thought(I seldom have them!!), I've been using aluminum foil duct tape on my rotary plow project, it has an adhesive back, you peel off the backing and press it on. Some companies make some that is pretty thick(Vulcan). Mine is quite conductive and I know copper foil tape is made also. You could cut it into strips and lay it onto dowels/wood strips, with small locos it would probably last quite a while and it's cheap/easy to replace. Might give it a try, just for grins.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Jerry,

Yes, I thought of that right away, but a method of soldering to the stuff escaped me at that time. Also, connecting the strips together. I figured that as soon as heat hit the adhesive, it'd all shrivel up. Maybe not, though.

Incidentally, that idea might work really well on pole roads, for anyone who wanted to try. I hit on the smushed copper while eyeing a bunch of it lying in a box for the recycler. I thought, "Ah, ha...." and the rest is history. Up to this point.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Les, 
I came up with an idea for a frogless switch...with 2 rails but one point rail...  

IF you make your switches with diverging angles instead of curved rail you can use a single point rail that is hinged (pivoted) near where the frog would have been, but not at the end. Figure where the point rail touches the outside rail and bring your inner rails in like they were mated to a frog, just omit the frog. Draw the X from each closure point to a rail end, where they cross is your pivot point. This will probably require an Armstrong throw... stop get out and push the rail over. Or bring in the 0-5-0 big hook! lol If you notch and taper you can smooth out the bumps..... 

John


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Les et al:

Don't know if any of the following will be of any use, don't even know if any of the designs were ever used, but here are some U.S. Patents for RR switches.

U.S. Patents - RR Switches
File Type: PDF - File Size: 3MB
Left-click to open / Right-click to download[/b]


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 26 Oct 2009 07:07 PM 
Les, 
I came up with an idea for a frogless switch...with 2 rails but one point rail... 

IF you make your switches with diverging angles instead of curved rail you can use a single point rail that is hinged (pivoted) near where the frog would have been, but not at the end. Figure where the point rail touches the outside rail and bring your inner rails in like they were mated to a frog, just omit the frog. Draw the X from each closure point to a rail end, where they cross is your pivot point. This will probably require an Armstrong throw... stop get out and push the rail over. Or bring in the 0-5-0 big hook! lol If you notch and taper you can smooth out the bumps..... 

John 


John,

Here's my frogless switch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3XCTgyo-OE


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Steve, 

Looks to be some overly complicated automatic switch designed to be used without stopping for the throwbar exercise 

Here's a simpler design, although somewhat limited in directional usage 










I believe it was in use for trolleys


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

"0-5-0 Big Hook." Heh heh. That's good.

I got the switch parts mostly cut. I won't try to explain but when you see it you'll say, "Oh, ---!" Not that I can't make a frog. I never tried, therefore it oughta be a piece of cake, right?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 27 Oct 2009 06:12 AM 
Steve, 

Looks to be some overly complicated automatic switch designed to be used without stopping for the throwbar exercise 

Here's a simpler design, although somewhat limited in directional usage 

I believe it was in use for trolleys There's about 10-15 different switch patents in that one file, somewhere towards the end there are a couple of single moving part ones.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Steve,

Thanks for the PDF file. I just glanced through it, but already I see one I'm going to use @ the engine shed.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

John,

There's a similar switch on this guy's 3.5" ga mining layout. He's got a regular switchyard full of 'em, I think three sets of rails to switch through. Google 'kick switch
and you might turn it up.

I believe the action of a stub will be very similiar to the way yours looks, because the wood doesn't seem to want to bend very well.

I got the tie blanks cut out and a 24" set of points using an old Stanley set I've had for years. Now I'm looking for a bigger piece of base to start it on.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

SE,

You know where that'd work well? In a mine, for a loop (obviously). Thanks. It now rests in my file.

Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's another completely different variation, posted by someone on the SE (7/8ths forum)


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks for the pic. It's an interesting variation--I think on the plate switch idea. Not sure, but it's in my file now. It'd be difficult with strap rail, I think, but would certainly work in the mine part I want to build.

Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Les, 

Here's 2 more mine turnouts from folks at SE Forum. To get to that forum, you might need to register: http://www.7-8ths.info/index.php?action=forum


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bob,

Is that _ice _on the ties in the first pic?

Thanks for posting the photos.









Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Dave here, sorry for not putting that in. 

It's from salt mine, I think. IMO the design of a curved rail on the curve is the most optimal. 

Cheers 

Dave


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I can't take credit for the Big hook line, but thought it was good enough to pass on..

None of the pics showed what I had in mind... I wouldn't bring the rails to a point (froggy) but stop short and then use the short side of the lever to make the connection on that side of the ribbit er frog.

I've made frogs in On3 and I'm no machinist... If anybody could I would think you could.... but if that's not fun, then carry on!

Only s Stub switch 'bends the iron', the rest move fixed (bent od straight) rails.

You know the drill.. we want pictures!

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Les, 
Will your mine cars be hand pushed or loco powered? 

For push carts, they often omitted the points and the pusher would simply push the car towards the desired route, making the switch. 

John


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Re: pushing mine cars, would it be like this? 

Apologies if you've seen this video, which I got from the 7/8 forum I mentioned. I believe there's a post on the forum, which shows how the Frenchman who designed this made the articulation/servos etc 

I suppose the original topic of this post got way off track. 





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSYD98Wv66c


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dave,

Sorry for the 'Bob'. Done it again.







I did see that vid before. Now, that's cool.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dave & John,

All of my cars will be pushed/pulled by a critter-type loco. My crew is the laziest bunch in town.









Pix to follow when I get something worth showing. Just now all I have is a pile of sticks and a flat piece of luan. And a broken compressor. I did get that valve assy apart today, and I think I'm going to try epoxy. WTH.

Les


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Hi Les, 

I just wanted to ping you and see if you have had any progress on your track? Got pictures?  

Jason


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Jason,

Thanks for your interest. Several things converged on me: my daughter is moving back in with us, so no train room no more.







That is the big kicker at the moment, shuffling her stuff in and mine out.

And then our wettest October on record kept me from doing badly needed yard work. And I think you already know about the compressor.

Sooo ... Daugther will move in this weekend. Rain is predicted for most of next. That means I get to pick up where I left off, which is a pile of rough, ripped furring strips. I want to take some pixes when I use the little HF minisaws (chop and table saws) just to show folks what they look like in action and point out one or two things. I also hope to have my compressor successfully fixed. I bought a pin nailer courtesy of John's enthusiasm concerning them--hey, any excuse is good to buy another tool--and so then, I think I'll have something to post. I've already found that thing is going to be one big sucker. I've never done anything in F scale 45mm gauge, so it is suprising, the actual size.

What I'm going to do is content myself with a piece of flat track, the switch, and just make models and whatnot, and do a diorama about 3 x3 ft and work with that until things shake out here. I'm thinking of selling off the metalworking tools in my garage, but it's kinda painful to contemplate; I wish I could find someone who'd give me a price on the lot and haul it away.

Les


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Hey Les,

I understand, family first, hobbies second.  Sorry to hear about your metal working tools. I can't imagine that at all, it's taken me 30 years just to get mine. F-scale is large!! I'm doing standard gauge for mine and it's huge. My "little" four-wheeled snow plow already weighs more then my old HO scale locomotives, and it's not even finished yet. I'm looking forward to see what you come up with, even if it's not a full-scale layout. 


Jason


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## Webber (Sep 4, 2008)

Hi Les,
Best of luck.







I understand. My plans have been slowed this year by my basement flooding and family situations too. Your approach sounds good, except if I were in your soggy shoes I'd drag my feet on selling the tools as long as I could. It's really hard to recover from something like that. I'm heading in a similar direction to build F scale in a really small space to get things started until the rest gets sorted out.It won't stop me, just change the shape of things to come. - Web


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Les, 

Have you considered putting the tools in storage in lieu of selling them? 

Bob C.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Guys,

Thanks for the kind words. Because age is creeping up on me, I keep telling myself I'll never use 'em again. But I haven't used 'em in a long time, either. I'm going to try to get some bids, but I'm in no hurry either, with this economy. They aren't eating anything.

I think my best path is to build models & such dioramas as I can find a place to keep, as I started to years and years ago. I've got an awful lot of learning techniques ahead of me. But if it turns out my health keeps sagging, then out they go and in a trainboard goes.

Les


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Gentlemen

I found the following while rummaging around and thought you might be interested, it's in PDF format and the file is only 3.5MB in size, feel free to download a copy if you like, it's an extract that I made from a...

Annual Report
of the
Board Of Regents
Smithsonian Institution
Year Ending June 30, 1889

Development of American Rail & Track[/b]


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Steve, 

Thanks, interesting stuff--invaluable. I'm downloading to study. 

Dave


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Steve,

Thanks for gathering that up and posting it. I'd read it before, but it's nice to have a file copy. Did you notice how the switches shown (the straprail ones) don't bend, but pivot from a bolt? That's mining-type usage, I think, as opposed to 'bending the iron'. I have no difficulty with either type, but I'd like to try making a radius by bending the rail somehow. It may not be possible, as the timbers would take a set if left in the 'bent' position. But some extra pins should take care of that.

Les


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