# Not enough Loco ID's available - how do you manage yours?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

It seems to me that whether using LGB Central Station II's or III's or LGB Loco or Universal Remotes that there is no way around the 00 - 22 Loco ID limit - even when running with a Massoth Central Station 1210Z and Navigators - IF running LGB locos with factory fitted or LGB decoders prior to the 55027.

When just an ABA or ABBA and a Porter and Streetcar use up 4 Loco ID's it doesn't take much before there are no available Loco ID's without reusing them.

How do others work around the 00 - 22 Loco ID limit?

Am I missing something?


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

I thought it was only the MTS 1 and very early LGB decoders that are limited in their addressing capabilities. I'm sure I have later version LGB 55021 & 55022 decoders that support short addresses higher than 22, and indeed also support long addresses. 

I believe the LGB throttles 55015/6 are limited to 15 or 22 address respectively. 

I do have an early factory-fitted LGB Mikado that certainly doesn't support a long address, and I've never tried it higher than 22 because its road number ends in 09 (hence it's address 9 on my roster)

[edit]
onlytrains.com says this on their FAQ page:
Can LGB MTS loco decoders be programmed for addresses greater than 22 for use with other DCC systems?
Yes. Earlier LGB loco decoders can be programmed to addresses 1-99. Newer decoders (55021 Version 2.3 or higher) can be programmed to addresses 1-9999. These higher addresses can be programmed using the MTS PC Decoder Programming Module and possibly also with programming devices from other manufacturers.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hopefully I am mistaken.

The LGB 55006P Central Station III instructions say:

Expanding the LGB Multi-Train System The LGB Multi-Train System offers numerous possibilities for expanding your layout, all the way to fully automated control of your entire layout from your PC. For more information, visit your authorize LGB retailer or go online to www.lgb.com

Operation with Massoth DiMax Navigator

The LGB 55006 MTS Central Station III can be used with the Massoth DiMax Navigator (MTS III). The DiMax Navigator offers numerous advanced functions. If your loco decoder is programmed to 28 speed steps, the DiMax Navigator allows sensitive loco control with 28 speed steps.

*The DiMax Navigator allows programming loco addresses 1 - 10239 (for decoders that allow this address range).* *When using the LGB 55016 Loco Remote, the DiMax Navigator enables programming of loco addresses 1 - 15.*

That means to me that my* 55016 Loco Remotes are limited to 1 - 15 *and the 55015 instructions say:

The Universal Remote offers convenient operation of your entire layout. 

*With the Multi-Train System, you can:*
- control direction and speed
- activate MTS functions and lights in series and parallel (with MTS function-equipped locos)
*- program decoder addresses 00-22*
- set MTS Switch Decoders.
- set and program switch routes.
- operate and program doubleheading.
- optional: operate your trains with wireless control with 55050 and 55055 (in North America: 55051 and 55056).
- With the Universal Remote, you can program all MTS Loco Decoders, MTS Switch Decoders (55025), MTS Rolling Stock Decoders (55034), MTS Braking Modules (55063) and MTS Loco Number Readout Modules (55082).

*So this limits me to 00 - 22 with the LGB Universal Remote.*

The 55020 decoder instructions say:

Register Function Available Factory
values pre-set
CV 1 loco address (00..22) [3]

The 55021 instructions say:

Register Description of function area Range of values Factory pre-set
CV1 Decoder address 00-22

The 55022 instructions say:

Register Description of Range of Factory
function area values pre-set
CV 1 Decoder address 00-22

The 20570 F7A instructions say:

CV1 Loco address (00-22)

The 25570 F7A instructions call for the 55020 (00-22) decoder

The 24578 F7A instructions say:

CV1 Loco address (00..22)

The 23900 instructions say:

CV1 Loco address (00-22)

The 12194 Mogul instructions say:

CV1 Loco address (00-22)

The 22771 Porter instructions say:

CV1 Loco address (00-22)

The 21791 Corpet Louvet says:

CV1 Loco address (00-22)

Even the 21832 White Pass Mogul says:

CV 1 Loco address (00..22)

In other words about all I have found with decoders that can go higher than 00 - 22 are locos that I put Massoth or 55027 decoders into.

This is not a complaint. I am simply working on figuring out what the limitations of the various LGB locomotives, factory installed decoders, LGB decoders and LGB Remotes & Central Stations II & III are.

I have been confused because in the past I did things that I thought should have worked only to discover that the results were not as I expected.

*Now I know not to program anything outside of 1 - 15 if I want to use the Loco Remote or beyond 0-22 if I want to use a Universal Remote. I also now understand that almost all of my LGB locos (that came with decoders) have decoders that limit their use to 0 -22* as well (with or without the Navigators).

It has been a learning process and I'm wondering if anyone else came up with a better solution since everything that has a decoder will stay with the same decoder.

I've never used MTS/DCC much in the past but now I am converting to MTS/DCC indoors as well as track power indoors and outside and mostly Revolutions outside.

I did run into some problems when I programmed locos with the 55016 and 55015 and even with the 55045 module when programming appeared to have taken place only to find that the Navigator did not recognize the address that had been programmed. Then I also had problems where locos programmed by the Navigator were not recognized by the 55016 or 55015.

Now I have the LGB 55045 both with LGB 6.0 software and with Massoth Programmer software plus the Massoth PC Module arrived today so I can now program additionally with the 1210Z and the PC Module with the Massoth Programmer software. At least when I am done now I should not have to do much in the future other than to simply run the trains that have been programmed.

Jerry


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, your Massoth navigator should be able to do most anything, but all the LGB handhelds can restrict you as you have mentioned. So, you can go to addresses over 22 if you only run that engine on the navigator. A great way to 'cheat' is to have the short address of an engine to be in the 0-15 range, but have the long address set to anything you want for the navigator.
just change CV 29 between short and long addressing to change which number/system is to be used. 6=LGB, 38 for Massoth handhelds plus this keeps DC operation on for both settings.

I just went to my system and programmed my original 22171 to address 257 and was able to run it with 128 speed steps on my system.
So, my assumption about the LGB manuals for addressing are for the LGB system limitations, not just for the capability of the decoders!!!
My all original LGB SV #251 is address 251. My Mystic porter is 26 the number on the engine.


On another note, I have a Zimo system and have programmed the following LGB decoders:
55020 lenz version serial only (most other decoders were made by Massoth)
55020 newer Massoth versions 
55021 
55027
onboard decoders in Porters, 2090.2, mikado, moguls, SV 2-6-6-2, allegra (this unit ships with 28 speed steps activated, not 14) and many others.
Also I have changed the sound function keys in the American coke car as I have 2 and needed to separate when played plus I have them on the same address.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> I just went to my system and programmed my original 22171 to address 257 and was able to run it with 128 speed steps on my system.
> So, my assumption about the LGB manuals for addressing are for the LGB system limitations, not just for the capability of the decoders!!!
> My all original LGB SV #251 is address 251. My Mystic porter is 26 the number on the engine.
> 
> ...


Hi Dan,

Following your comments I was able to program a 22171 to address 171 (28 speed steps) which confirms what you were saying.

It seems that with some LGB Locos I needed the 55045 but others needed the Massoth PC module.

While by far the most decoders are LGB/Massoth I still have odds and ends of inexpensive MRC, NCE and DigiTrax decoders that the LGB & Massoth equipment do not recognize. I may try to program them with the DigiTrax DCS200 (something more to learn). They just run the lights and analog sound systems.

Part of the problem for me is that I do not know anyone in Arkansas that uses DCC/MTS except for HO layouts with DigiTrax.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just trying to "decode" this thread, so mostly asking Dan here:

1. seems that there is no limit to highest address 16 or 22 for any of the LGB decoders, at least in short addressing.

2. seems that the limit Jerry sees in address range is entirely due to the LGB controllers.

3. I don't see that there is any issue with using the MRC, Digitrax, or other non LGB/Massoth decoders, using his system, that the limitations are not in his decoders, but the control system.

Do I have this all correct so far?

Thanks, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, you are close... The decoder rev in CV7 is the key to the decoder limits but LGB never published the info.
I have lgb decoders with higher revs that will go to 128 speed steps.
I have never made a table as there are 55020, 55021, 55020, 55027 and onboard decoders and all of these are different.
Also note that CV106 is the program load info for voltages and function settings.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

One factor is that the LGB software looks just for LGB decoders and the Massoth software looks for LGB or Massoth decoders. They both can reset the decoders to LGB defaults (which is important to me).

I have not yet looked into JMRI or Digitrax software and I have never seen Zimo, NCE or other brands of hardware of software.

My concern at this time is 100% with the LGB trains on my layout so my questions may or may not have value to those with non-LGB trains. I also plan to keep Revolutions or track power with the Aristo trains.

Depending on my competence and level of satisfaction I may eventually advance to putting decoders into LGB locos with Direct Decoder Interfaces and perhaps someday to putting decoders into old LGB locos with no interface and analog sound.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just one last question Dan, can all the LGB decoders be programed to all the possible short addresses? I know certain ones won't go beyond 14 SS.

Thanks, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a 55020 LENZ decoder with only CV 1-4 being programmable. And it is serial only.
It is the system (MTS) that is mostly limited and manuals were written for the limits of the MTS system, not the decoders. It is like LGB did not want to support other systems in their documentation.
I have not tried high numbers with the old decoders (55021) as I only have 2 and the engine numbers were under 10. On board decoders I have a Xmas engine at 1225 the Xmas date.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Dan, and I was not trying to derail your thread Jerry, it's very informative about limitations. Wow.

Greg


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