# Ffestiniog Coaches



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I just completed two 14 door coaches to go with my Double Fairlie consist. Next will be two Bug Boxes.
I started this on my Double Fairlie thread but it is getting too big so I am starting a new one.
After advise from you all, I decided to make them out of wood rather than brass
My internet explorer will only allow me to post pictures in the edit mode so the pictures will follow in a few minutes.








Here is the prototype








Here is the model








At the top is my jig which I cut out with a scroll saw. The white strips are to keep the work piesc perfectly centered during the router process
below is a cutout. I used 1/8" Luan pluwood from Home Depot.








This is the patern making setup in the router table









Using this setup gives me sides which are exactly equal to each other and allows me to sandwich the glazing between two sides.









Another view








Inside and outside pieces








Door glue up








Doors fitted to sides









Completed sides








Door handles turned on the lathe. Ends were rounded over on the grinder










This is the jig I made to bend the grab handles








The wheels are some old Bachman ones I had laying around. I turned the flanges down on the lathe. The sides are 1/8" bar stock and the top 1/16"










This is a resin casting I made from some Bachman trucks










Here is the best picture I could come up with of Chopper couplers. Note the ball and chain to keep it hooked up








Here is my copy








The chopers are cut with a band saw










The buffer ends were turned and cut on the lathe then milled. The sides were cut from 1/16" on the band saw. The shaft is 3/16" square stock









Here is the setup. The spring keeps the coupler centered and provides a buffer action. The slot allows horozintal movement and keeps the coupler from twisting









The coupler is mounted and the truck mount is in place. The truck is mounted with a shoulder bolt and spring








Two coach set

Next up - two Bug Boxes


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work, the cars look good, I like the colors great workmanship.

chuckger


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

The coaches look gorgeous, the color is perfect and and I just love them. Just a quick question, I thought that there would have been two chopper arms, what happens when a car gets turned around and you have blank plates with out chopper arms next to each other> Or is this a case where the cars never get turned around?


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

Very nice cars!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Andre 
That is a good question and I thought about it myself. As you can see from the prototype, there is only one chopper lever. The other photos I saw also had only one. 
I assume if a car gets turned around they remove the pin for the lever and put the lever on the other end. 
This question would probably be better answered by one of our friends across the pond.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Chuck


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
the coaches turned out really nice. I think, the couplers are asymmetric, as neither FR nor WHR seem to have a wye, at least for normal operation. Did you use a form tool for the door handles? One of these days we have to talk you into building freight cars. A mixed train with some slate wagons would look great!

Regards
Henner


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## HeliconSteamer (Jan 2, 2008)

Typically, the Welsh lines didn't turn their locos or coaches. On the Ffestiniog, the really isn't a facility for turning coaches other than Bug Boxes. I believe that those could be turned on the wagon turntable, but certainly not the bogie coaches. The Fairlies are double ended except for Taliesin which faces Blaneau Ffestiniog. Some of the George England locos ran facing downhill about 1900, but in recent times, they have run facing uphill. It seems that keeping the crownsheet covered is a bit important.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Great work as always! 

Steve


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

Verrrry nice!!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Very innovative techniques. This is a great lesson in model building. One for the old shop notebook.

Second Henner's request for more info on the door handles. 


I really like those couplers.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

That's me, green with envy at your locomotive and your coaches, as well as your ability to make such magnificent creations...










Job well done!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Tom 
Henner 
I will submit this and then edit in a photo of the form tool 









These are two form tools I made. I learned this skill from Dennis and it is really quite easy.
These are made from 5/16" lathe tool stock.
I mount a dremmel tool in a vise with a cutting wheel on it. The angle for the flange is done on the grinding wheel and the radius is cut with the cutting wheel.
The large turning is cut from 3/16" stock and is drilled out for 3/32" rod. I use this for grab handles on Locos. The thread is 2-56
The smaller one is cut from 1/8" stock and is drilled out for 1/16 rod. The lowest piece is the stock from the lathe. The next one up is for 1/16 grab handles with an 0-80 thread and the top is a door handle.
The door handle is done by grinding the nub off the top and a slighe flat on the side to accomodate the drilling process. It is then mounted in the mill vise and the hole for the handle is drilled.
The handle is set with epoxy. This one was a reject because the handle was not perpendicular


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## Chrisp (Jan 3, 2008)

Bill - outstanding work. They will look royal behind the Fairlie. I'm on a Welsh kick myself, in the midst of a batch of Dinorwic slate cars. Maybe I'll have some to show at the BAGRS meeting. I hope you can bring the Fairlie to the steam track.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Bill, 
A great piece of coachbuilding. 
I'll look forward to seeing them in Sacramento, assuming that you are going to be there! 
If I may point out one error (I only 'think' it is one, as I am not a Festiniog aficionado, although I WAS a member of their preservation society in the late 50's). 
Anyway, most of the railways that I have come across used 'T' door handles, pivoted in the centre, and not ones with 'one arm' as you have made. 
Mind you, perhaps they would be too hard to make. 
Guards vans did however use one arm types. 
Even earlier handles were with round handles to turn. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks David 
I will be in Sac. 
See you there. 
It is hard to do these just from photis from the web 
Maybe I'll try some T handles on the bug boxes


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Very cool--and old school to boot. (Nothing against laser cutters, but there's something to be said for a band saw biting into brass.) 

Later, 

K


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice coaches.. What blade are you using on the brass?? I usually end up cutting the brass with a piece of wood underneath, it keeps it from grabbing.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jason 
This is just a 1/4" low tension wood cutting blade (high quality). It is 8 TPI which is multi use for wood but a little coarse for brass. I will probably get a 12 TPI or finer next time. 
I have a metal cutting blade that I use for big projects but because of the set in the wood blades, it is easier to make sharp turns as you can almost go sideways with it. 
This is a Jet 16" wood band saw. If you look at the throat plate you can see that it is one I cut out of 1/8" brass. It is vertually zero clearence. This keeps it from grabing and also alows cutting of very small parts which would fall through a regular band saw. 
Speaking Of grabbing, I have never had a problem with the band saw but when I tried to cut some window openings out on a loco cab on the scroll saw, I found it impossible to keep the thin brass from jumping up and down. I then made a jig out of masonite similar to the one in this thread and mounted an end mill in the router table with the same patern making setup. This cut like butter and a few minutes with the corner file and I had perfect cutouts which were all the same size.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Chris 
I hope you have something I can see by Saturday. 
Henner keeps pushing me to add some slate cars to the consist. He sent me a drawing of one which I can share with you if you don't already have one. 
I will bring the Fairlie but will probably enter it into the model making contest so it will probably be setting on a table all day. I will probably bring the Garratt to run. 
See you there.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill: Thanks for showing the forming cutters. That's a great tip.

Bob


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Beautiful work and a real credit to your ingenuity, too! The poster who mentioned the lack of turning faciities is quite right - there are none on the FR, and never were. Simply put, in the early days there was no need, since only tiny slate wagons were the traffic, and later on, when passenger haulage began in earnest, the line had been 'set in concrete' and it was not possible to construct a turning wye or a turntable either. Look at the stations at either Blaenau or Porthmadog and you'll see what I mean. Not even Boston Lodge - the shop - has a turning facillity long enough for a coach like yours, AFAIK. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Bill - have a look here - there are 12 pages of stuff that might be of some use. 

www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/3 

Whinemeal, we are off to Wales - my B-in-L lives there and my wife is Welsh - for easter, and I promise I'll get some pics for you! 

Best wishes 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 

Bill - edrychwch ar y wefan hon - mae 12 tudalen o wybodaeth a rheilffordd Ffestiniog a allai fod o ryw ddefnydd. 

www.narrow-gauge.co.uk/gallery/3 

Yn y cyfamser, byddwn yn mynd i Gymru dros gyfnod y gwyliau Pasg. Mae teulu fy ngwraig [sydd yn y Gymraeg] yn byw yng Ngogledd Cymru. Rwy'n addo y byddaf yn cymryd rhai ffotograff i chi! 

Iechyd da! 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Tac, 
Beth mae hynny'n ei olygu i gyd? 
Mae'n swnio fel enw gorsaf reilffordd y Gymraeg. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

A Mr Leech, Pob yr wyf wedi'i wneud yw i gyfieithu testun Saesneg i'r Gymraeg. Rhaid i mi ymddiheuro am unrhyw gamgymeriadau fy mod wedi gwneud, ond rydym ni nawr yn siarad Cymraeg bob dydd. Mae fy ngwraig cymraeg wedi anghofio y rhan fwyaf o'r iaith. 

My deepest apologies to all of you who are not lucky enough to speak Welsh, the oldest language still spoken in the British isles and the original language of the Britains before the Romans turned up and ruined the whole place. I have to admit that I'm a bit rusty these days - my wife, in spite of beiing Welsh, is not a speaker, but I grew up with it from my taid, who was not an English speaker unless he had to be.

I won't do it again.

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"original language of the Britains before the Romans turned up and ruined the whole place" 

Tac; 

As I was struggling with Ave Verum in choir practice last evening, I mused to myself "How were they (the Romans) able to conquer the known world when they had such a clumsey language?" In some way, I feel your pain, but I'm as lost with Welsh as Samwise Gamgee was with Dwarfish in The Lord of the Rings. 

Best Wishes, 
David Meashey


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave Meashey on 24 Feb 2011 11:04 AM 

"How were they (the Romans) able to conquer the known world when they had such a clumsey language?" 

Believe it or not, I was forced to take two years of Latin in high school. I was always amazed at how structured it was, and how it could have developed that way.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom; 

I had to take two years of a language too. Since I did not think I was going into science, medicine, or would become a pastor, I chose German. Since I lived in Pennsylvania Dutch country, I thought it might at least help me understand some of the things my "neighbors" said. (It did, but just a little.) My struggles with Latin are further aggrivated because our choir director insists that we use the "Church Latin" pronounciation. 

I'm sure the language is quite structured, but since my only excursions into it are music selections - it's a chore. I'd probably feel the same way if I had to sing a rather involved piece in German. I'd just have a better clue on how to pronounce the words. Not trying to insult anyone else's training, just expressing my own frustration while trying to make things "just so" for a fairly demanding choir director. 

Yours (and back to trains), 
David Meashey


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

"the original language of the Britains before the Romans turned up and ruined the whole place" 

I thought we made it more civilized. You brits never did learn how to cook well. 

By the way the coaches are amazing. 

Steve Ciambrone


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Your work is fantastic. The way you present each step is easy to understand, which makes the thought of eventually starting my project list less daunting


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Are those "chopper" couplers unique to Ffestiniog? I don't recall seeing them anywhere else. I really like them.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Bob 
I believe they are unique to narrow-gauge European railways. They were used during the link and pin USA days and were proven to be safer. 
I believe Accucraft has something similar in 16mm for about $10 per pair


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, 

Ther coupling is called a 'Norwegian; coupling and was also used in Australia. 

Wiki provides a good article on them at the following link 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(railway)#Norwegian


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Peter 
I followed that link and it led to the couplers I used for my prototype. 
Here it is. The couplers are at the bottom of the pictures. 

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~telica/Norway_Setesdalsbanen.html


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