# Nickle-Silver Track Outdoors?



## mvogt1 (1 mo ago)

Years ago, it was the opion of most of the people on this site that nickle-silver plated track was the way to go outdoors. I bought a decent amount, but have never put it into service. A friend in our local club is telling me that the common opinion now is that corrosion over the years eats throught the coating, and it shouldn't be used outside. Does anyone have first or second experience with this track over several years? If this is not a good choice, I am assuming SS or track power would be best?

Thanks!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This seems to be common, mixing the idea of solid nickel silver rail with nickel plated brass track.

One supplier also really confused the description on his site also, adding to the mess.

So, you mention plating several times, if the surface is shiny it is most likely the nickel-plated brass, once made by LGB, also supplied by Train Line 45, and Theil in Europe and sometimes sold by Train-Li in the USA.

Nickel silver, like used in smaller scales will weather to gray-ish silver and is solid nickel silver all the way through.

So based on all of this, can you tell what you have? 

You last sentence was also confusing, are you asking SS vs nickel plated brass or track power vs something else?

2 questions...

Greg


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## mvogt1 (1 mo ago)

Thanks, Greg. I had honestly forgotten that there was a solid nickle-silver rail. After reading your reply, it seems like people did point out the obvious drawbacks to plating, so I am 
hoping I went with solid. I will cut a piece soon to see if it is plated or solid.

I should have reviewed my post before submitting. My apologies. The last sentence should have read "SS or battery power," however, I would be open to other suggestions. My 
friend is a Piko dealer, so he is suggesting nothing beats brass. 

Thanks again for your time!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, if you have had it in the air for a while, if it is still shiny, it will be that nickel plated brass. Very common and popular, and great outdoors, actually a bit better power conduction than stainless steel. Easier to cut and form, popular as the high end for track in Europe.

I have solid stainless steel, and have had it almost 20 years, and it is great. Saved a lot of money going track power, 100-200 per loco.. I'm very pleased. 

There are a few manufacturers that make nickel-silver for G scale, it does not hold up as well as in indoor layouts, being more sensitive to moisture and pollutants.

At the bottom of the food chain is brass, since it oxidizes, and needs physical "scraping" with an abrasive to keep best conductivity, and also you need rail clamps with brass since the simple joiners supplied will oxidize also.

There's many ways to mitigate the conductivity issues, grease in the joiners, rail clamps, bonding wires between track sections. 

If you already have nickel-plated brass, then you are golden, use it and enjoy! Do you remember where you got it?

Greg


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Greg gives great advice as usual. SS 332 also has advantages for handling weight. My brass track I used on the ground for years but it took a beating as people and machines travelled over the surface. No such problem with stainless. I only had nickel-silver for some switches--it has been great long-term. I used alum on elevated sections only on my railroad and stainless on the ground....kinda used them all for various utility and cost reasons. If you have nickle-silver you should be fine as Greg has pointed out.

Sam


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, I forgot to mention that, I have the old Aristo code 332 rail, and it is stiff! Takes a **** of a rail bender to bend it, but as Sam says, really resistant to people stepping on it. My gardeners have to be admonished every so often, but no damage in all these years. Best choice I made for my style of running I ever made. Had some illnesses in the family, and did not run for entire year. Hit the track with a hose, pulled some weeds and ran a train, no track cleaning. Not possible with brass.

Track is the foundation of your layout, you appear to have a good start.

Greg


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

I've had nickel-silver track out in the backyard for over twenty years. Many others of my acquaintance here in UK, for over forty years - PECO, of course.

Aristo s/s WAS on sale here in UK, but unlike the home market, we never got iany of your 'buy four boxes, get one free' deals - it was twice as much as brass anyhow and switches were THREE times the price of brass.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

I have Tenmille nickel silver track for over 30 years outside in the garden running live steam and rail-powered electric (and clockwork 😉 ) trains in gauge 1 and gauge 0 and S.
Regards
Fred


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, I am interested in what track cleaning you both need to do for track power, and what you use, and if your locos have skates.

We have found here in the US that NS track oxidizes less than brass, but it still needs some oxide removal, i.e. some kind of abrasive cleaning after sitting for a while.

Does this parallel your experience? Clearly if you run every day and have skates you may never "clean" track.

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have about 2400ft of Train-Li NPB track down for about 12 years now and have not had any issues whatsoever, even the ties are still in perfect condition.

It requires almost zero maintenance, once a year at the beginning of the season I run a maintenance train pulling 4 Aristo track cleaning cars with white scotch right pads with some cleaner on it for about an hour and that's about it.

While it's more expensive than brass its well worth the cost.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, the Cadillac of track pretty much. Likewise I use a wet swiffer, which takes about 5-10 minutes to walk around the main. No abrasives or scrubbing ever needed.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Greg Elmassian said:


> So, I am interested in what track cleaning you both need to do for track power, and what you use, and if your locos have skates.
> 
> Greg


I use the LGB track cleaning block 50040 to clean the track everytime before I run any electric train. I have already wore down a few of these through the years 😉 Most locomotives I ran do not have skates. See here a KISS railcar with only 4 wheels and without skates running with DCC on the outside track, a live steam Glaskasten on the inner track. After a clean with the LGB block a Märklin electric Glaskasten, also 4 wheels but with skates, had a run on the inner track.






For 0 gauge I found out that 3-rail runs generally better i.e. with hesitating, than 2-rail.

Regards
Fred


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## mvogt1 (1 mo ago)

tacfoley said:


> I've had nickel-silver track out in the backyard for over twenty years. Many others of my acquaintance here in UK, for over forty years - PECO, of course.
> 
> Aristo s/s WAS on sale here in UK, but unlike the home market, we never got iany of your 'buy four boxes, get one free' deals - it was twice as much as brass anyhow and switches were THREE times the price of brass.


Thank you for your response! Could I ask if you have plated or solid nickle-silver? My fear is that if abrasive pad cleaning is necessary (even if less than brass) the plating will eventually wear through.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

My Tenmille nickel silver rail is solid, not plated, and as said I have it in the garden for already more than 30 years. It stays good while I use the LGB cleaning (abrasive) block.
Regards
Fred


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## mvogt1 (1 mo ago)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Well, if you have had it in the air for a while, if it is still shiny, it will be that nickel plated brass. Very common and popular, and great outdoors, actually a bit better power conduction than stainless steel. Easier to cut and form, popular as the high end for track in Europe.
> 
> I have solid stainless steel, and have had it almost 20 years, and it is great. Saved a lot of money going track power, 100-200 per loco.. I'm very pleased.
> 
> ...


The track is in my attic, so I am not sure of the condition yet. I will check in the next 24 hours. 

I installed Aristo SS in my tunnel, and have always been glad to have done that. No maintenance is a wonderful thing. 

I am fairly certain I bought the NS from Llagas Creek, and that is a concern because their text-only website is not reassuring that they are still available. I have emailed them to find out. I think at the time of purchase I had crazy, naive plans of hand laying all track, so I am not sure I bought ties for it. I'm 95% sure it is code 250, but I do know all rail brands do not fit in all brands of ties. They don't mention plating anywhere on their website, so I am leaning toward the believe that mine is solid.

Thanks again for your always valuable responses!


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## piercedandan (9 mo ago)

I have been told nickel does not stick to brass and the process was the brass is coated first with copper and then coated with nickel over the copper. Therefore never use any abrasive method to clean this type of track (no lgb track cleaner loco), just wipe clean with a rag.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

mvogt1 said:


> Thank you for your response! Could I ask if you have plated or solid nickle-silver? My fear is that if abrasive pad cleaning is necessary (even if less than brass) the plating will eventually wear through.


*WOAH WOAH WOAH !!!!!*
1. NEVER use abrasive on plated track
2. nickel plating will NEVER need abrasive cleaning

All the other metals, other than NICKEL or STAINLESS will REQUIRE abrasive cleaning. Yours and mine will NEVER need it.

I askes SEVERAL times if it is shiny, and you have never replied. If it was stainless or nickel plated it would still be shiny. Nickel Silver would be more of a matte light gray

LLAGAS CREEK NEVER SOLD PLATED TRACK.

Their site is not text only:








Llagas Creek Railways


Manufacturer of the world's most complete line of Code 215 and Code 250 track and switches for Gauge 1, 1:20.3, 1:32 and G Scale garden railroads.




llagascreekrailways.com





They sell code 215 and 250 in brass, aluminum, and nickel silver.













I have never seen brass plated with nickel silver, since I have modeled, from the 50's to present.

Greg


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## Chistech (Dec 19, 2019)

I had a full tube of LGB brass rail nickeled. It is holding up fine so far (outside for a year) but I haven’t run a bunch of trains on it yet but it is seeing use. I the plating didn’t stick well in any area you will find it during the bending process. I am currently contemplating disassembling all my brass switches and sending all the rails to be plated. I’m lucky that I have access to a plater that doesn’t charge me much. I’m thinking it will be worth the effort in the long run as I live less than two miles from the ocean. My current temporary loop of SS that is connected to the nickel rails that I nailed down to my trestle and Howe bridge by only rail clamps with no feeder wires. The feed is at the beginning of the dual track 18’ trestle on both sets of rails and the loop is 30’ in diameter. I’m pretty impressed with the conductivity of the SS rails, the rail clamps, and the rail ends. After running the temporary loop all summer I never had one power issue.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

mvogt1 said:


> Thank you for your response! Could I ask if you have plated or solid nickle-silver? My fear is that if abrasive pad cleaning is necessary (even if less than brass) the plating will eventually wear through.


Don't recall EVER seeing nickel-plated track here in UK, although it may well have appeared at some time.

Outdoor 0 and 00 gauge, although rarer, is still with us, with the appearance of high-quality UK outline rolling stock in the larger scale. One track of my acquaintance is still running trains on track that I helped install in 1985.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

I use both nickel silver and brass rails, my older pike of whose track I salvaged a good deal is brass (I use it mainly in the wye between the indoor terminus and the new main line) and the new track uses Märklin nickel silver rail (their new track originaly Hübner) I find that the nickel silver portions work better after a rainfall than the brass which oxidises very quikly. However the nickel silver does also. It is solid Nickel silver, I dont think nickel plated brass rail would stand up with time as the plating would wear off (especialy if you clean the track with an LGB abrasive eraser bolck) Another issue is the oils that steam locos project on the track which has to be cleaned off before good reliable electric operation can begin. Like Greg I saved a good deal with track power (having over 12 electrics to operate) however it is not compatible with steam (during steam operations because they cannot be insulated and after steam operation because of the grease and oils it projects on the track creating gunk very quickly.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

TAC: LGB sold it for a while, and you can find it from the major European suppliers, mostly in Germany.

Yes, back in the day, the 1960's, nickel silver rail was touted as never needing cleaning, the story was that the oxide was conductive itself. Baloney.

d-b: do you have the equivalent of a swiffer there? small mophead perfect size for 45mm, and disposable wetted pads, which have a degreaser on them, works perfectly on grease and gunk.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks Greg : I will try and see if i can find it or an equivalent here in France.
Merry Christmas, Simon


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## mhutson (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all,
I have used NS code 250 rail for many years outside. My rail is from LLagas Creek and Sunset Valley with AMS (Accucraft) ties. One of my sidings is NS code 215. All of my locomotives are battery powered. Track has held up great lo these many years later, even with direct impact from deer hooves from time to time!

Cheers,
Matt Hutson
Nathrop, CO


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> *WOAH WOAH WOAH !!!!!*
> 1. NEVER use abrasive on plated track
> 2. nickel plating will NEVER need abrasive cleaning
> 
> ...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The Train-Li people used strange words to describe the Nickel-plated brass track early on, and it caused a lot of confusion, since the word "silver" was used, when there was no silver, no nickel silver either.

Anyway, if you bought it from Llagas Creek it was most likely nickel silver. Fine outdoors. You will still have to use abrasive cleaning to remove oxidation periodically.

Greg


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Yes, back in the day, the 1960's, nickel silver rail was touted as never needing cleaning, the story was that the oxide was conductive itself. Baloney.
> 
> Alas, this is what I was told years ago. I guess I will probably sell the nickle silver track. It is too daunting to change all motive power to battery..


Thanks, Greg!


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> The Train-Li people used strange words to describe the Nickel-plated brass track early on, and it caused a lot of confusion, since the word "silver" was used, when there was no silver, no nickel silver either.
> 
> Anyway, if you bought it from Llagas Creek it was most likely nickel silver. Fine outdoors. You will still have to use abrasive cleaning to remove oxidation periodically.
> 
> Greg


Do you think NS requires less cleaning than brass?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It appears so, but there is so little real data on people using it for track power, all I can do is go by what the smaller scales find indoors, and of course that is very different.

If you have it, use it, I'm a solid SS man myself, still can be found on used market, and it's the single best decision I made for myself.

One other thing is you have a lighter gauge rail, and it is more susceptible to physical damage, and there is less of it out there on the used market. 

How big are you planning to build? I have had this discussion many times only to find the person wants 100-200 feet of track, which is silly compared to how long track can last and how important it is to your fun factor.

Greg


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## Chistech (Dec 19, 2019)

How is the HR Trains10’ SS flex track. I know it’s expensive at $135 a section with ties and 2 rail clamps but I’m currently visiting my mother in law down here in Florida and I’m only an hour and a half away from HRs store.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It is fantastic quality. A bit different cross section. It was the first track I purchased.






My Layout Development


Greg Elmassian web site on large scale trains and garden railroads, cigars, and computers




elmassian.com


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## mvogt1 (1 mo ago)

Thank you all for your help! I apologize for the confusion, thinking that there was a nickle-silver plated option. While I have stainless steel in my tunnel, I will probably convert one robust engine to battery to power a track cleaner and keep using brass until funds allow changing out the rest to SS.


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

I read in the past thatn the nickel silver LGB track had problems with the plating flaking off. Not sure if it is true, but makes me not buy that track.

Doug


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It was not nickel silver, but nickel-plated brass.. yes there were some bad batches.

nickle silver rail is NEVER plated...

Also, using the LGB track cleaner car could grind off the plating.


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## Chistech (Dec 19, 2019)

Had a nice visit with HR trains and checked out their 10’ section of SS rails. The price was $138 including 10 of the long Piko ties and a pair of SS split jaw clamps. The rail is very nice and while expensive, is priced accordingly with Piko 10’ brass rails as they pointed out to me. 
We were discussing me buying some rail and having a try at machining the rail to fit switch ties. I have a lot of LGB 1615’s -1605’s that i could convert for my outdoor or nickel plate as I mentioned earlier.


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