# Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?



## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Hello, 

I am somewhat new to this site, been lurking. Decided to get my feet wet. 

I'm beginning to put together some beginner level projects. I'm a new modeller, but a retired tool and die maker. Don't know the terminology of the hobby all that well, yet. I have chosen to build in 1:20.3 scale running on dual gauge, 45mm, and O ga (32mm) track. I'll be building a PP indoor layout ca 1850-1899. All (or most) track will be handlaid strap-iron (actually copper) on wooden rail. All switches will be manual stub-type. Traditional DC track power. 

I haven't found a site where F scale is discussed as such. 

For the second part of my header question, I wonder if it is possible to build in 20.3"/15mm scale gauged to HO track? Anyone ever hear of this being attempted? The reason I ask is that I forsee space will be a problem and also, I want a mine site and a very narrow gauge would look good there. Across the pond there is a site with some very nice-looking Gn15 creations. I don't know what scale they model in but I think it's one or more of the smaller ones. 

Thanks, 
Les


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Gn15 is HO scale track at 1:22.5 (at least mostly.) In 1:20.3 it comes out to about 13 inch gauge which is a bit slim for most mining ... but not impossible. S might work ... you're probably looking for something between 18 and 24 inches for a mine track. 

OTOH ... if your mining entrepreneur decided to go with 13 inch gauge and made all his own stuff.... to fit through small "wildcat" tunnels ... well, why not? 

Matthew (OV) 

PS. Search the archives for "Minol Mine" (use the quotes!) ... can't remember if it was in the model making, buildings, or general discussion forum .... but there were at least two long threads on mines, mine rail equipment, and other mine making ideas, with a lot of prototype photos.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Matthew: 

Thank you for the kind response. 

I don't know what width S gauge is. If you would clue me, I'll add it to my 'gauge notes' file. Since I'll be handlaying all my track, gauge isn't so much an issue as power units. 

The one fixed item in my plan (?) is the 20.3" scale because my eyesight isn't what it once was. And building is easier, too. I am under the impression Fn2 is O gauge, which I already plan on having. 18" ga sounds good, are there commercial power units for it? 

I take it you don't think it's feasible to try to use HO ga track for F scale items? It seems the result would be unstable laterally. (Tip over). 

Any suggestion on gauge you might care to offer that accommodates available motor/gearsets would be welcome. I could build my own power units, I suppose, but I really don't want to get in that deep so quickly. 

Thank you, 
Les


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Hi Les, 

I would take a stroll over to - http://www.7-8ths.info/ 
Its mostly 7/8's scale (1:13.7) running on 45 mm (G) track as 2 foot ng and 32 mm (O) track as 18 inch ng. 
There is also a bit of discussion on other scales like Gn15. 

-Brian


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

S Scale is 1/64 .... and the .883 gauge scales out to 17.94 inches (or about as close to 18 inches as 32mm track is to 24 inches!) 

There are all manner of locomotives in S scale, so you should be able to find a power unit to do what you want if you choose it. 

Matthew (OV) 

Oh, and if you WANT to use HO, it'll work. There are a lot of folks using it, a la Gn15, and with some modification, 1:20 figures will ride nicely on them. The issue is one of scale; while you will find examples of 18 inch gauge mining equipment, 13 inches is a bit small ... and in 1:20, your HO track is about 13 inch gauge. Some folks are willing to overlook that for the convenience of having equipment available (Ozark has mine motors, cars, details, etc ready to go!) while some just "see" it whenever they look. I mention the larger track only because if you want to keep to the 1:20.3 scale, you may want larger equipment than what you'd have in Gn15 to go with your 1:20.3 people and equipment.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

I always wanted to take the other option with Gn15, not mining, but Heywood railways, but that is just me. There were a lot of park lines built to 15" gauge also. 

16mm (UK SM32) scale uses O (32mm) track for 2' gauge railways. 

15mm (F) scale using 32mm/O track would be a tad wider.....but O would be fine for 2' in F scale, but just a TAD wide.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Hello Les, 

I've kicked around a similar dilemma for months before settling on a "standard" for my models (on hold now that my wife lost her 13-year job & we are trying to adjust to a single income, what with a teenage daughter who was just given her own car). I like southern African steam equipment, so I've standardised on 1/24th-scale, which makes 45mm G track scale out to 3-feet 6-inches, perfect Cape Gauge! 

I'll be using 2 other gauges on my (future) layout: 32mm (0) and 22mm (S). 32mm, or 0-scale, scales out to about 30-inch gauge in 1/24th-scale, and 22mm, or S-scale, scales out darn near 24-inch (2-foot) gauge in 1/24th-scale. 

The natural dilemma for me is what several other fellow modelers have agonized over: use widely-available track & tools for dual-gauge 45mm & 32mm track, or bite the bullet and fabricate not only the track for dual 45/22mm track but also track gauges, turnouts, and the like. 

Without rehashing a LOT of info that has already been covered before, Scotty "Chaos" (an active forum member) chronicles his sojourn through this wilderness on his 29n2 website pages: 29n2. There is a wealth of info there, and he even has a 29n2 discussion forum on Yahoo Groups. 

I hope to contribute more in the near future, but at the present working overtime at my "day job" is taking up nearly all my free time.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Posted By altterrain on 06/28/2008 10:55 PM
Hi Les, 
I would take a stroll over to - http://www.7-8ths.info/ 
Its mostly 7/8's scale (1:13.7) running on 45 mm (G) track as 2 foot ng and 32 mm (O) track as 18 inch ng. 
There is also a bit of discussion on other scales like Gn15. 
-Brian




Well! The folks one runs into in a strange neighborhood! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif 

I will go to the site. I tend to get confused when scales change, but I'll at least pick up some ideas. 

The 'ol machinist in me thinks, "HOga + F scale ain't gonna hack it." Just a feeling. Some other kind soul suggested S gauge. Another suggested 15" but I'm a tad at a loss on that one, other than it's used in amusement parks and whatnot. 

Thanks for taking a moment to reply and for the site. 

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Posted By SlateCreek on 06/28/2008 11:12 PM
S Scale is 1/64 .... and the .883 gauge scales out to 17.94 inches (or about as close to 18 inches as 32mm track is to 24 inches!) 

Matt, thanks for the scale/gauge info. That sounds like it's just the ticket. As I posted another gentleman, the 'ol machinist in me thinks that F (20.3) + HO ga might be just a tad unstable. 

There are all manner of locomotives in S scale, so you should be able to find a power unit to do what you want if you choose it. 

There are fewer gauges/scales I know much about than 'S'. American Flyer was nominally that size, wasn't it? Also, I'm doing steam exclusively. 

Matthew (OV) 
Oh, and if you WANT to use HO, it'll work. There are a lot of folks using it, a la Gn15, and with some modification, 1:20 figures will ride nicely on them. The issue is one of scale; while you will find examples of 18 inch gauge mining equipment, 13 inches is a bit small ... and in 1:20, your HO track is about 13 inch gauge. Some folks are willing to overlook that for the convenience of having equipment available (Ozark has mine motors, cars, details, etc ready to go!) while some just "see" it whenever they look. I mention the larger track only because if you want to keep to the 1:20.3 scale, you may want larger equipment than what you'd have in Gn15 to go with your 1:20.3 people and equipment. 

And there, you've hit on precisely my purpose for dropping the Gn15 notion. Also, I'll now have to edumacate myself on S scale/gauge, always a pleasant, if headache-producing activity. That's one personal reason I've begun modelling: my mind was getting rusty, not to mention my skills. 

Thank you for taking time to share your thoughts. 

Les W.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Posted By Spule 4 on 06/29/2008 6:23 AM
I always wanted to take the other option with Gn15, not mining, but Heywood railways, but that is just me. There were a lot of park lines built to 15" gauge also. 
16mm (UK SM32) scale uses O (32mm) track for 2' gauge railways. 
15mm (F) scale using 32mm/O track would be a tad wider.....but O would be fine for 2' in F scale, but just a TAD wide.




Spule, I've read a little on Heywood railways. You're right about Fn2 using O ga is a little wider, I think 25.x", but hey, I can live with some fudging./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif 

Thanks for taking a moment to share your thoughts. 

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Posted By silverstatespecialties on 06/29/2008 11:43 AM
Hello Les, 
I've kicked around a similar dilemma for months before settling on a "standard" for my models (on hold now that my wife lost her 13-year job & we are trying to adjust to a single income, what with a teenage daughter who was just given her own car). 


A)Brakeman, 

I'm sorry to hear of the job loss. Sorrier to hear of the teen daughter driver. (I raised a daughter ... sheesh, they all drive like nutcases, IMNSHO). /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif (I'm kidding, in case it doesn't come across.) 

I like southern African steam equipment, so I've standardised on 1/24th-scale, which makes 45mm G track scale out to 3-feet 6-inches, perfect Cape Gauge! 

A) You know, I'm glad you mentioned S. African equipment. I am a true admirer of British Edwardian era locos/rolling stock. They have this massive, stately, if ungainly, awesomeness our more practical American stuff lacks. And the S. Africans--while I'm not widely read on their RR's--took improbability to an extreme that is challenging. If I find success at modelling, I'm going to do one of each. 

I'll be using 2 other gauges on my (future) layout: 32mm (0) and 22mm (S). 32mm, or 0-scale, scales out to about 30-inch gauge in 1/24th-scale, and 22mm, or S-scale, scales out darn near 24-inch (2-foot) gauge in 1/24th-scale. 

A) I chose F because of the size and my eyesight. 

The natural dilemma for me is what several other fellow modelers have agonized over: use widely-available track & tools for dual-gauge 45mm & 32mm track, or bite the bullet and fabricate not only the track for dual 45/22mm track but also track gauges, turnouts, and the like. 

A) Well, I agonized all right: at the prices for track and said rolling stock. Three gentlemen and expert modellers over on the GR board made me seriously think, and what I thought was, wooden rails w. strap-iron (copper, really) and handlaid and handmade stub switches. Set the era pre 1900 and I'm pretty much in a builder's world. It all just sort of fell together in my mind. The single scale decision came a bit later. 

Without rehashing a LOT of info that has already been covered before, Scotty "Chaos" (an active forum member) chronicles his sojourn through this wilderness on his 29n2 website pages: 29n2. There is a wealth of info there, and he even has a 29n2 discussion forum on Yahoo Groups. 
I hope to contribute more in the near future, but at the present working overtime at my "day job" is taking up nearly all my free time.




A) I certainly thank you for the entertaining post. Good luck on your projects. 

Les


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Posted By Les on 06/28/2008 9:41 PM
I'm sorry to hear of the job loss. Sorrier to hear of the teen daughter driver. (I raised a daughter ... sheesh, they all drive like nutcases, IMNSHO). (I'm kidding, in case it doesn't come across.)

Thanks, 
Les 




 No worries Les, I consider this sage advice from a peer. So far my daughter is a better driver than my wife! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif 



The myriad of different scales and gauges all lumped into the terms "G" and even "F" "scales" make for a fascinating variety of creativity that is unmatched in any other scale/gauge combo, IMHO. There is a LOT of uncharted territory to explore, and there are some very talented and creative chaps on this site who are more than willing to share their wonderful creations (one of my recent favorites is Kevin Strong's downsizing of a Bachmann Connie from 1/20.3 to 1/22.5 - WOW!). 



If you use HO ready-made track for your F creations, be sure to snip away every other tie so it doesn't look out of place...really narrow track gauge users were known to run their rails on 18- to 24-inch tie/sleeper centers. I've even recently been in some old abandoned mines where I measured 30- and 36-inch tie/sleeper centers, and these ran fairly heavy & long electric trains on them (18-inch gauge)!! One example is Delamar, Nevada; we recently took a trip there, and with a combined total of over 20 hours' worth of exploring the underground mine workings, I've NEVER found the end of the primary tunnel! Rails are still in place inside, and in many sections 30- and 36-inch tie/sleeper centers were common. Most of the rails' crowns were worn down to the webbing, and this was on fairly robust (at one time) 20-pound & 25-pound rail. Heavy stuff! Electrical insulators and other detritus made it obvious that electric locos were fairly extant in use at one time or another (probably the late 20's/30's revival). 



Good luck, and don't get discouraged! I can't wait to see some of your creations!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Matthew (Slate Creek) 

Thanks for the info on the S scale. .883 gauge, or 18" in 20.3 scale sounds very good to me. 

If I understand correctly, that would be the next gauge wider than HO that still has commercially available motor units, correct? (I'm still pretty new at all this scale/gauge concepts.) 

Now, does one look for "S Scale" engines and rolling stock, or will the old American Flyer stuff work? I don't know a thing about S scale/gauge. (I intend to scratchbuild everything possible but the power units). 

I'm contemplating the extensive transfer operations that might take place on my RR: S to G, (mining) O to G (Logging). That's what I like best, switching and whatnot as opposed to running. I think I'll be very short on space when I start to build. 

If you would be so kind as to verify the above, I'd appreciate it. 

Thank you for taking time to reply. 

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

I agree that the range of experimentation is unmatched, insofar as I can tell. The kicker is, a newbie goes nuts trying to figure out what's what. To add to the difficulty, 'F' is rarely mentioned as a scale, a specific one, that is, namely 1:20.3. It took me months to deduce that F was about the largest I could hope to go with an indoor layout, even a PP one. 

I'm also very impressed by Kevin Strong's conversions. I think he also kitbashes awesome critters from Hartland motor blocks. (That may be Vic Smith I'm thinking of, however). Both were very helpful getting me started. 

I'm going to do S scale for the NG mine site. I've never even seen an S scale piece of rolling stock, so there's a something else to learn. I want to scratchbuild, but not motor blocks. Not yet, anyway. 

By the way, I AM posting on the right forum, aren't I?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif 

Thanks for the kind help. 

Les


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Regner also have their 30mm offerings to further confuse things!!


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Have you looked into this website? 
http://www.gn15.info/about-15in-gauge/


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Posted By Richard Weatherby on 07/01/2008 7:25 PM
Have you looked into this website? 
http://www.gn15.info/about-15in-gauge/




Richard: 

Yes, I have. There's some outstanding work being done there. That's what initially attracted me to the notion of 16" ga for the mine. Trouble is, they seem to model in 1:22 scale, generally. Much more regrettable, I posted asking about 32mm gauge and was invited to go elsewhere. (Very politely). They never did answer my post re the scale of Gn15. My scale of choice is 20.3 for all gauges. I tend to now think--because it was pointed out here--that HO gauge track isn't what I want for a mine, anyway. 

Thank you for taking time to post. 

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Garrett 

Thanks! Just what I need, more confusion! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif Heh. 

Actually, I'd like to know if American Flyer is true 'S' ga (.883)? Sometimes I run across really dead ones /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif that can be k-balled for parts. 

Les


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

G (for the most part) is 1:22,5 per the old LGB days. 

I would avoid AF, too tinplate for finescale modelling purposes. There are a few finescale S vendors, try Ron Sebastian at Des Plaines Hobbies, he has a website.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

And for Regner: 

http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de/feldbahn/produktliste.php


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

I was thinking of the wheels and motor units, not the shells. I want to scratchbuild as much as possible, and I have a lathe to 'flange up' the wheels if needs be. 

Les


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Speaking of wheels I have some I need to send you to poke a hole dead center. 
I have a slouch for a machinest and my stuff is not set up yet. 

Toad


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Hold off until I get my new lathe cleaned, adjusted and set up. 

Les


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Les, 



I'm not sure from your postings if you are aware that Fn3 is 1:20.3 scale equipment running on 45mm (Gauge 1) track representing 3' narrow gauge. While this is too large for mining equipment, it is just right for the road that services your mining company. It has the advantage of several large scale manufactures making ready-to-run and kits for equipment in your chosen time frame. It also makes many of us Fn3 builders, even if we don't specify it. 



Dave


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Dave: 

Oh, yeah, I'm aware.  I spent days putting numbers, Fn3, Fn2, to my proposed layout and bugging the guys (nice ones, lucky for me) to help me with the proper teminology. 

There are several reasons for the multi-ga setup: I'm an ORG /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif (Old, Retired Guy)and I've wanted to build a RR for decades. (Literally: we had to tear down our nice Lionel when the first baby came along.) So for years I'd think about a layout when I had time to do so. Retired tool 'n die maker. 

I stumbled across G Gauge by accident after having sold a collection of HO put away 'for retirement'. I couldn't see the stuff! So tiny. So, what to do? HO and downward was too small. S? Pretty expensive. Lionel? Nah, been there, done that. I want to build my stuff. O ga? Ehh... ouch, the prices. Then I saw the G stuff and as soon as I realized I could actually build, oh boy. 

I had to move indoors due to health reasons before I ever got a start, the first year. So I'll have a small PP layout. I've always wanted dual gauge, and the Gurus of G Scale assure me O is the way to go. I got some O track and laid it inside a piece of G, and, yep. Then I got to thinking about a mine. I wanted narrow NG. Some more asking, searching and I came up with S ga (18" @20.3) 

So, would that be Fn18, or Fn1-1/2? I haven't asked yet. (Letting 'em rest.) What do you think? 

Oh, FWIW, I toyed with the notion of tinplate Lionel O ga, but in the end I didn't. The desire to scratchbuild won out. 

Thanks for the headzup. 

Les


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?

if your hands can manage it, it IS possible. 
it's a hobby, and it is your layout. 

for my part, i am building a layout in more or less 1:29, that uses G1 45mm for the mainlines, O gauge for the rural sidelines and HO going into the mine. 
for my N gauge rails i found only one use so far - in the sawmill.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

Posted By kormsen on 07/10/2008 8:27 AM
Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?


if your hands can manage it, it IS possible. 
it's a hobby, and it is your layout. 

A) I was concerned about lateral instability (tipping over sideways). Since I first posted, I've decided to go with S scale. I just bought a beat up old AF engine on Ebay and hope I'm able to get the wheels off and scratch build. It occurred to me that they might crumble. 

As for it being my hobby, I appreciate the reminder. I'm a newbie and am trying to figure things out. 

for my part, i am building a layout in more or less 1:29, that uses G1 45mm for the mainlines, O gauge for the rural sidelines and HO going into the mine. 
for my N gauge rails i found only one use so far - in the sawmill. 

A)Now, there's a thought. I'm planning a sawmill based on one I used to haul logs to as a young man. Those rails would work pretty well, I think. 

By the way, where are you located, again? This format does not carry sender's name over into the answer window. Somewhere in Paraguay? 

Les


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2008)

*RE: Are there any Fn3 or Fn2 builders here?/ Is it possible to build F scale to run on HO track?*

where are you located, again? 

western paraguay. the Chaco. 
that is a dry place. a lot of ranching, and some farming we got here. 
about 2% of the countries population on about 60% of the land. 

concerning the chance for the roling stock to tip over, i just build the things so, that they dont hang over more, than 50% of the width between the rails. 

korm 
.


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