# Cement or Pier Blocks



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Are both of the following staements true about buiding a elevated layout?

Buidling a ladder frame out of wood covered with 5/8 exterior plywood and composite roofing you can use 4x4s and pier blocks becasue of the weight of the wood frame the pier blocks will be stable.

Building a ladder frame out of 25 guage steel studs with 5/8 exterior plywood and composite roofing the supports have to be cemented because the light weight of the steel ladder frame is not sufficient to keep the layout stable using pier blocks.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it really has little to do with the weight of the layout. It depends more on where you live and the soil conditions and weather conditions you have to deal with. Does your yard naturally heave in the winter? Do you have extreme weatehr conditions that affect the stability of your yard? Regardless of what is over them. The best rule of thumb I've heard is to build essentially to the requirements of a deck or porch in your local area. 

Hopefully someone with a little more experience will chime in. 

Chas


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Scott, 

Your question is rather open ended and missing considerable information. Chas has hinted at the missing data. Are you in a dry desert climate or a moist rain forest? Is you available space flat or hilly? Are you planning a large standard gauge layout with long high speed freights or a small narrow gauge with short trains and tight curves? Is you available budget limitless or, like mine, what's left over after everyone else has spent your discretionary spending? Do you object to a layout close to ground level, or do you wish it to be elevated to a more comfortable maintenance level? The list can go on and on. 

As Chas has also commented, there are many great modelers here that will be more than willing to help you obtain your goals, but help them out with a bit more of a direction. I would also recommend digging around in the archives of this site and the other fora online, there is also a wealth of information there. I have been here for a couple of years and still have a lot to learn and a lot to offer. 

Bob C.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Several layouts built in western/ central NY state have used deck blocks successfully with little shifting due to frost heave. One of them (Chuck Walters) has been copied by many around the country. For decking he used 2x6 lumber, some have used synthetic lumber (trex type). One I know of (Ron and Marie Brown) used an aluminum framework on pvc pipe set on deck blocks, again with no frost heave problems. Their deck was exterior ply and they took great pains to seal it- including the edges, and it delaminated in a few years. They replaced it with Dibond. 
The PA live steamers built the elevated portion of their Ga 1 track with steel studding but I don't remember what the top was made from. 
My layout is built on Eaglewings frames with their "spike" system. The frame has been up through one winter and didn't heave but the completed layout will see its first winter this year. 
I seem to remember you moved to St Louis? There is a large, active live steam contingent in that area which could be of help. Larry Herget had a very innovative layout with rebar supports if I remember correctly. 
Tom


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