# Powering an LGB Mogul by Battery



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, today I finally put DC power to my used #10 LGB Mogul and it not only runs, but has nice sound and whistle.

Originally, I planned to gut everything out of the loco and install a battery, my Revo receiver along with a Phoenix sound card, but after hearing the loco and how it works, I'm thinking of only adding the revo and battery.

I insulated the pickup shoes from the track and the loco still is getting power from the rails.

So to go Battery, it looks like I'll have to take the boiler apart to isolate the electronics from not only the pickup shoes, but the drivers also.

So without taking the tender apart, does anyone know if there is room in the tender for a battery if I leave what ever is in there?

Anyone have info on taking the boiler apart?

What is involved with isolating the electronics from the drivers and removing the sliders?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe you will find that the motor block is the "3 wire" one, where the motor is tied to the wheel pickups inside the motor block. 

You can isolate this pretty easily within the motor block with a piece of heat shrink, but you need to open the motor block. 

If your motor block has 4 pins, instead of 3, then you don't need to open the motor block. 

Did you remove the motor block yet? 

Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

No, I haven't taken anything apart yet. 

I was hoping to get some guidance in taking the loco apart, before tearing into it.


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

Pull the bottom off of your motor block. Remove the 2 brass straps that connect all of the wheel wipers together. Remove both sliders. If you want to, you can also remove the wheel wipers. 

After you have removed the sliders and brass strips, there will no longer be any track pickup.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

What Bill said...... 

you've got mail....


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the help guys. 

Tomorrow I'll pull the bottom off the motor block and take the tender apart and see what I'm in for. 

I want to us an 18.5 volt battery with 5600mah if it will fit. 

# CR1705 size 92mm x 74mm x36mm


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

You're not going to need 18 volts for the mogul. It's gonna run plenty fast with 14.8. I've got my top speed set at 60% of that, even. I don't know how much room you've got in the tender with the electronics, but you should be able to fit a 4800 mAh 14.8 volt pack in there without much difficulty. (That's assuming it's the digital sound, not that analog sound. But since you said it sounded _good_, I have to believe it's not the analog sound. 

Later, 

K


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin I appreciate the suggestion, but I'd rather have too much voltage than not enough. 

Tony feels the LGB electronics needs the 18.5 volts and I'm going to go with that if at all possible. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

What battery voltage to use depends on how you wire it up. 

If you are going to power an LGB Mogul with the stock wiring in place, I would use 18.5 volts, as the first 5-6 volts is burned up switching on lights and smoke etc. 
If you are going to do this be careful that you do not power an LGB digital sound with a pwm output ESC. The sound will not like it. Neither will a DCC decoder, if one is fitted. 

If you are rewiring the loco and powering the motors direct from the speed controller, then yes, 14.4 volts is completely adequate and no problem with pwm.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

If this is the #10 LGB Mogul you have..... 
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=2486 

There is all the LGB documentation available for download at the bottom of that page. 

Knut


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB had 2 different digital sound systems, plus the original analog version. 
Earlier versions had all sound in the tender. Bell and Whistle reeds are under leading tender truck. 


On board MTS had the sound unit under the decoder in the firebox, only had a speaker in the tender. Coke Mogul is this configuration. Reeds were under rear engine axle. 

You can never use the MTS type tender with other moguls or vice versa as the wiring is completely different and can destroy the mogul sound board.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

The motor block has 26192 stamped on it.

For those who have never taken the bottom motor block cover off one of these locos, be warned that the pilot truck on the loco swivels on a stud under the motor block plate and is spring load. 

So while removing the 4 screws, the pilot truck frame will most likely pop up out of place. 

Not a big deal so long as you understand that it will have to be placed back where it belongs and held in place while re-installing the motor block cover. 

The cover itself is removed from the front first and re-installed by fitting the back end of the cover in place first,

The sliders if you are keeping them have to be worked into the sides of the motor block.

Then work the cover into place as it needs to seat itself into the axle slots for the drivers.

No real pressure was needed to do this, just wiggling the cover back and forth a little till it dropped into place.

Another thing to note is the screw lengths. 

The screw closest to the front of the loco is the longest followed by the next longest screw. 

The other two screws are both the same short length.

The front truck on the tender has a square box mounted to the bottom.

I couldn't figure out how to get the plug out of the tender socket without pulling on the wires.

Surely this isn't the only way to do this as the wires will fail in time.

Also, the tender weighs a ton because it actually has a weight that is the inside with of the tender shell by a good 1/4 inch by 1 1/4 wide.

The coal load used 2 screws to secure it to the upper section of the tender which uses 2 screws to secure it to the tender shell which is secured to the base or floor of the tender by 4 screws.

The main tender shell is filled with the electronics, weight and speaker, so if a battery pack is to be used, it's going to have to fit under the upper part of the tender.

The room available is 3.5 inch wide x 4/75 inch long x 7/8 inch high.

With the two studs for the screws to hold this section to the main tender shell centered lengthwise, they will most likely have to be removed to get a battery in place.

At least the front stud will have to go.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Another thing about nthis loco, when you throttle back and come to a stop, it still is making noise out the speaker. 

Even with the transformer shut off, it still make the noise. 

I thought it must have a battery, but no battery was found inside the tender. 

So it must have some type of compacitor.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

That looks like a DCC decoder sitting on top of the speaker. 
If it is, do not attempt to power the loco with a PWM output. Although many DCC decoders are capable of running on regular linear DC, they cannot tolerate pwm power. You will "confuse" the decoder.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Tony, but what is PWM? 

I've been running it back and forth on a 5 foot straight section of track using a MRC Power G 10 amp transformer


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The MRC 10 amp transformer outputs what is known as linear DC. This is safe for all locos and electronics. 
The track side TE, not the current version, is normally a PWM output that can be switched to DC. 
The decoder in the loco was designed to handle regular linear DC but not PWM. 
In very simple terms, PWM works as a speed control basically like a light switch that is turned on an off rapidly. The more the light switch is ON than OFF the light appears brighter. The problem is caused mainly because the pwm output signal is rapidly tuning ON - OFF. To the LGB decoder it looks like a sort of fake DCC signal that can disrupt the brain of a DCC decoder. 
Sometimes there are high voltage spikes in PWM that can exceed the voltage limitations of a DCC decoder. 
To the best of my knowledge there are NO on board battery ESC's available with a linear output. They are all PWM so don't use them to power the electronics in an LGB loco. 
PWM is safe for most motors, with the exception of so called "Coreless" motors such as those made by Faulhaber and Cannon. Although that depends on the frequency of the PWM signal.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Humm 

So what you're saying is that I need to gut the LGB Mogul of all the LGB electronics if I want to power the loco by battery.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Not necessarily, but it does get a bit more complicated leaving the LGB electronics in place. 

I would separate the motor from the electronics and power the motor only with the REVO output. 
You could then connect the old isolated track pick ups direct to the fused battery supply. This would enable the sound etc to work but the lights would not change. To have directional lights you would feed the battery supply through a small relay wired as a DPDT switch. The coil would be controlled by a REVO lighting output. The sound would always be on but that can be worked around as well using two relays. 

Other than that, yes, you might have to gut it.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well thank you very much for the info Tony. 

Guess for now the Mogul will stay track powered, as my home layout will be track powered. 

The amount of work to switch to battery for one weekend a year isn't realistic at this point. 

Humm, so what else do I have that would make a better candidate for battery power?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

What else do you have?


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah, I've got Aristo RS3s, a USAT F3 & NW2 Cow and Calf. 

Right now I'm leaning towards the Aristo Rock Island RS3 

I'll have to think about it.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The Aristo RS3 is one of the smoothest running locos they ever made and would definitely be the easiest to convert. Providing of course, the REVO will fit under the fitted speaker. Aristo made some of them with the body on backwards on the chassis. Meaning the speaker magnet occupies some of the space where the REVO would go.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The picture above does show the digital sound unit with the super caps for approx. 20 seconds of sound after power is turned off. And there is a decoder on top of the speaker. 

The tender does have power pickups from the track, so this unit has had the wiring modified for the decoder. 

Decoder looks like the LGB 55020/55021 series. get the manuals for these and compare them to your decoder on top of the speaker. Massoth also made one.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dan 

Right now I'm undecided as to wether I will proceed with modifying this loco to battery.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If the decoder is LGB, then it is already ready for analog DC operation. You just have to have an analog linear input for all the power connections in the engine and tender. 

The tender has 2 reed switches on the bottom for whistle and sound track activation magnets, and the engine has a wheel sensor tied to the tender sound board for chuff.


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## brentcd (Jun 30, 2012)

I also have an LGB Mogul I want to convert to battery and remote control. I already have an Airwire G2 decoder and T5000 throttle.

Is your engine an older West German made engine or a newer one?


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