# Electric vs manual switches



## daveroesler (Jul 25, 2009)

I am going to run battery powered trains. Don't want to run pnuematic switch motors. Any thoughts on electric switch motors vs manual. I have 20 Train-Li switches to control.


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

If your Railroad is inside, electric switches machines would be OK, however if it's outside electric switch machines can be a lot of trouble.....I've found that water, dirt, ants, etc can get into the mechanism, and the switches, if you walk around with your engine the use of manual switches enables you to operate like the fullsize RR and clear the switch if it needs it....









Here is a picture of some switch stands that I made, *there is a how-to on my website.....*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I run pneumatic because I deemed electric motors too much maintenance and repair. Go manual with ground throws. 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'll echo the above comments. If you control your switches remotely, you're going to need one of two things; either a central panel from where you throw the switches, or some kind of way to throw them from your remote handheld control. Yeah it's possible, but you'll either spend a lot of time walking back and forth from where you are to where you can throw the switches, or a lot of time pushing buttons to throw the switch. It's far simpler to just reach down and throw the switch. 

Also, regardless of how you throw the switches, the points seem to attract any kind of debris that will keep them from closing all the way, so you're best advised to always check your switches before you run over them anyway. If you're going to walk over to inspect the switch, you may as well just reach down and throw the switch. 

Later, 

K


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Use manual switch levers that way your railroad will qualify as an exercise device.


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

All of my turnouts are manual, for the couple out of easy reach, I used old style cable throttle or choke controls..


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

It all depends upon whether you live in a wet or dry part of the country. I had remote electric switches in Denver and I didn't have much trouble. When I moved to Virginia I quickly replaced the electric ones with manual, for all the same reasons that Dean mentioned.

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I converted my switches to Spring Switches with the V spring on top of the ties. As I walk with my train I need only align moves facing the points. I move the points with my walking stick or a stick parked at a handy spot. The spring switches also allow me to let it run unattended. 
I iuse a cheap 4" paintbrush to clean the frogs and flangeways before starting my run. 

John


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

I to used manual switches be for I converted to pneumatic, if you want long distance control the air operated ones are the only way to go. So I ask the question "Why no pneumatic?" They are simple to install, water does not affect them and they don't have all of the problems that electrically controlled switches have.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

My sets of points are electrically operated and I use a simple system that seems to be immune to most climate problems except ice.... I use what is called "Memory Wire" to pull the blades of the points across. It is "stupidly simple" as all I have to do is connect a 3.3Volt source across the 10cm length of wire and it "shrinks" by 5% this then pulls the blades across and a return spring of 200 Grammes rating stretches the wire back to length and forces the blades back into position. 

http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/display.html 

I originally saw the system demonstrated on the "Fine Scale" stand at the NEC. I buy my lengths of "Memory Wire" from eBay. The last pack I bought was about £12 for 5 lengths. 

regards 

ralph


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## daveroesler (Jul 25, 2009)

Thanks for the answer. I would have a very difficult time getting all the pneumatic tubes to my switch locations now. I have 20 switches and some of them in hard to reach places. I used the ladder system for roadbed stability and to be able to wind my way through natural rock formations so putting the tubes in now might be a chore. I prewired all the switch locations and ran wires back to my deck through conduit so getting tubes in that might be hard to do. I actually thought of it at first but decided on electric to try and remote control them. Maybe down the road if the manual method doesn't prove workable. Thanks again.


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

Checking/clearing points on a regular basis is needed outdoors due to debris, snow, grit or bugs whether manual, pneumatic or electric - at least a weekly check - goes with the outdoors lifestyle as EBT implied. If you are going electric, pick up a couple of 'weatherproof' switch machines and try them under varying conditions before a full investment. Only ice has caused occasional issues where we have had to wait for the mid-day thaw or use a hair-dryer with a long extension cord. No issues with heavy downpours. 

Cheers 

Victor


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Never seen a truly weatherproof switch machine... and have seen them all... the ones that seem to hold up the best are the old tried and true LGB, but still need cleaning inside as the weep holes let small bugs in, or they get in somehow. 

To make something really weatherproof, you need real hermetic sealing... nothing we could afford... plastic cases move and warp and expand and contract... especially black in the sun. 

I power my pneumatic solenoids with local power, meaning I put a cluster of control electronics in a good spot, and run a single "pressure hose" in and the hoses from there to the switches. I use the 1/8" line which fits in conduit easily... some of the line is exposed to sun and has lasted many years where it was not practical to bury it. 

All of that allows the minimization of the length of the hose runs. The only disadvantage of what I am doing is the cost, total cost for each switch counting the air motor, 24v solenoid, and DCC accessory controller is about $75-100 depending if you go top drawer or not. 

I'm happy I spent the money, the convenience and relaibility is great and maintenance is maybe once every 2 or 3 years on a switch, if that. 

Greg


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

My last layout had 21 turnouts. I used manual throws since they work the best in Florida with "monsoon" rains during the summer. We ran freight operations once a month, and everything worked just fine.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I have 21 turnouts both LGB and AristoCraft, but all with electric LGB switch motors. Most of these have been inplace since 1997 without failure. When I'm not using the railroad, I place clay pot "saucers" over them to keep the water out (twice daily watering), but it also protects the points area, including from UV. These actually clear the LGB turnout "lanterns."

Recognize that if you don't use some form of electric or electrially-activated air solonoid motor, you won't be able to do "automatic activation" for things like a "leap frog" should that become of interest. With the LGB motors, you can have as many different "trigger" sources as desired. For example, all of my turnout motors are activated at the control panel individually or in multiples using a diode array included in the panel, but some are also tripped "in the field" by approaching trains using reed switches and magnets when desired. Due to their design and ability to use half wave a/c, the LGB system PROBABLY best lends itself to this sort of operation.


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

After reading all your opinions, I think I'll go with manual turnouts. Does any manufacturer make a manual turnout that has a spring that will hold the points to one side, even when a train runs through it the "wrong" way? I bought a Piko manual turnout but the points will throw under a train running into them from the "wrong" way, and not spring back.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB manual throws return to the set position. That being said, some engines, nonLGB and lighter cars may derail as there isn't enough pressure to push the switch over. I have this problem with the pilot trucks on Bachmann and Accucraft steam engines. Adding weight or a stiffer spring to the pilot truck may solve the problem. Metal wheels on the cars will also help.

Chuck


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

On the bench without any dirt you need about 2.5 Lbs axle pressure to push the points over. With increasing time in outdoor operations this will go to 3-4 Lbs. While engine (except those with pilot trucks) may not be the problem, cars actually for the most part are. Metal wheels don't weigh enough to get to that weight.

Additional if you are using a polarized switch which gets the voltage information from the position of the points, the you will actually create a short circuit before you even reach the points, and even if you reach them they might not push far enough over.

There is nothing better than correctly positioned switches. Of course with electric drives you can throw them automatically so that would be a non-issue.


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

My Sunset Valley switch stands lock the points in position. There is no "spring" action, so like the prototype, if you hit a turnout that is set against you, you will derail. The big advantage of the points not moving is that a locomotive or car will not "pick" the points of the turnout and derail. I have used them for 10 years with no problems. I have the high switch stands on the main line, and the ground throws in the yard. See these two links from my web site which show how it was done. 

http://www.liveoakrr.com/tips/t&t6-sv.htm


http://www.liveoakrr.com/tips/turnoutlinkage.htm


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Bottom line is your doing battery so why mess with electronics. Just do manual and figure to get some excersize. For years I operated this way but I'm DCC and found a way to do remote for my turnouts. Later RJD


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