# Track spikes



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I don't know if this information would be useful to you, but I can never find this kind of information when I'm looking for things like track spikes. I ordered a 500 count package of the Micro Engineering large size track spikes, hoping they were large enough for what I wanted. The only information I could find for them was that they are 1/2 inch long. I got them in the mail today, so I got out my handy-dandy micrometer to measure them. They measure just over 1/2 inch long from the point to the top of the head, from the point to the underside of the head, they run about 10-15 thousandths less than 1/2 inch, so they shouldn't go completely through a 1/2 inch thick tie. The spikes are round, and about .050 diameter, the heads are about .035 thick, and about .085 to .090 long on the underside of the head, the part that contacts the foot of the rail. I checked the heads against a piece of code 332 brass rail and they almost touch the web of the rail, but not quite, when the shaft of the nail is up against the edge of the rail. The spike head fits about the same way on the code 250 aluminum rail that I have. On the back of the package, it recommends pre-drilling the ties to avoid bending the spikes. It recommends a 1/32nds or #68 drill bit for softer woods and a slightly larger drill bit for harder woods.
These spikes are pretty large for G scale, but I don't think they're too large to look good on the rail. They're just what I was looking for to spike down my code 332 brass rail pieces for my 4 inch gauge mine tram in 2 inch scale. That's 2 foot gauge in G.I. Joe scale.  I've been working on a small mine car for the G.I. Joe figures to push, and a slightly larger one to be pulled by a Johnny West horse. I'll probably also use these rails on the 1/2 inch or 5/8ths inch aluminum rail for the display track for the 3 foot gauge combine car that I'm building. I'd prefer the 5/8ths rail if I can get it, it's about 40-45 lb rail in 2 inch scale, and the 1/2 inch rail is about 30 lb rail, if you use the height measurements of the real D&RG narrow gauge rail.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

though you are not outside where you have to worry ..... if used outside water the track well after you spike it so they rust into the wood or they will back out over time


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Good idea! I wonder how the stainless spikes work for that? I've seen them listed on a couple of websites, and it was tempting to get a package to try, but they cost a bit more than the regular ones.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Hey Amber, Ive heard for out door track stainless spikes are a bad idea. They never rust and "stick" to the wood. You will have to go and re-seat all or most of them every year. Seems like for most of you applications you may just have a short piece of track that stays indoors? I think stainless spikes would be fine then, but why bother since regular ones are cheaper. We would love to see some pictures of your builds.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I'd like to post some pictures but I'm not a paid member so I can't, at least not that I know of. I have a number of projects in various stages of assembly, a couple of G scale things, and the new "obsession" with 1/6th scale. It occured to me today that I could probably use the 4 inch gauge rail sections as an excuse to build a couple 60 cm "trench railway" freight cars from WW1 for the G.I. Joes. More ideas than time to do them, as usual.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

As long as you host the pictures on another website; flicker, facebook, etc you can post pictures. It's fairly easy (







) No () on the actual link. It's also listed under the FAQ. 

Craig


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

I can confirm that the stainless spikes can back out. A friend and I built a bunch of turnouts for an upgrade he was doing, he had stainless and I had the black ME spikes (both 1/2") - perfect time to experiment.. 

After less than 2 years the stainless are lifting and the black steel ones are fine. I also bought some 3/8" ME spikes once to lay track on a trestle and they were too short to be useful. 1/2" are definitely the ones to get IMHO. 

Cheers
Neil


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I built a little jig tonight to use for pre drilling the ties for the spikes so that I could try out the spikes on a few ties. I used a piece of 1/8th inch by 1 inch aluminum that I had sitting around from some other project. I cut it off to 10 inches, 5 scale feet, and then cut 3 pieces of code 332 brass rail 1 inch long, from a short piece of rail, and superglued them to the aluminum strip at 4 inch gauge and 3 inch gauge, just in case I want to lay some 18 inch gauge rails for the mine tram. Then I marked the spots along the foot of the rail that I thought looked like the right spacing for the track spikes and drilled the pilot holes to use to drill the ties. I have some ties that I made from cut off ends of trex porch boards, they're cut to 3/4 inch by the thickness of the trex boards, 1 inch, so they're about a scale 4-1/2" by 6" by a scale 5 feet long. I drilled a few of those to see how the ties would look with spikes and rails. It will be interesting to see how the spikes do in the trex as opposed to regular wood ties. 
I read somewhere that the Maine 2 foot gauge railroads used about 21 inch tie spacing, center to center. There's a lot of space in between the ties at that spacing with 6 inch wide ties, and I read somewhere that there was 5X5 ties as well as 6X6 ties. It seems like that 20-22 inch tie spacing is fairly common, even on the wider gauges.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I guess my original attempt to explain how to post images didn't work. Here's the link the to FAQ, its about 3/4 of the way down the page. 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Resources/FAQ/tabid/80/Default.aspx 

Do you really think its necessary to predrill spike holes? I ask this because I've hand layed over 250' of track and never once predrilled anything. I was spiking into cedar, and redwood. I use the 3/8" spikes from ME. 

Craig


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

it seems to depend on the age of the wood, if predrilling is necessary. 
when i use fresh cut ties, no driling is required. 
but if the cut ties lie around for a year or longer, they tend to split, if not predrilled. 
this happens with cedar and other wood types. (we got no redwood down here)


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Idecided to pre-drill the trex ties for 2 reasons, the package recommends predrilling so as not to bend the spikes when pushing them in, and the trex is quite different from wood, it's as much recycled plastic as it is wood fiber, and I didn't think I could push these little spikes into the stuff without bending them. Also, I pre-drilled so that I wouldn't have to use any track gauges to lay the rail, with pre-drilling, the gauge is already set. If I end up using some wood ties, I might just spike them without pre-drilling, but then I'll have to make a couple of track laying gauges for the 4 inch gauge. Making accurate track gauges with a hack saw and a file can be a bit frustrating.  
I don't know if these spikes will work for 1/2 inch or 5/8ths rail, but I'll try them on the display track for the 3 foot gauge car once I get a couple of rails to work with. I haven't found any place in the U.S. to get spikes bigger than these ones. There's a place in the U.K. that has all kinds of bigger stuff, but the shipping might be more than the spikes. They even sell steel rail in the small sizes, but can you imagine the shipping charges on that?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Amber on 04 Dec 2011 10:01 AM 
{snip...}[/i] Making accurate track gauges with a hack saw and a file can be a bit frustrating.  {snip...}[/i] Have you ever considered using all-thread rod, and nuts and washers to create your "track gage"? Using a 1/4"-20 all-thread rod gives you 20 threads per inch so, one full turn of a nut will move the nut 0.050" along the rod, which should give you the adjustment accuracy you are looking for.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I used Trex when building switches, it is stainable. It can get wavy and soft when riped thin. If not on a good base.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Well Steve, I hadn't thought of that, but now that you've put up a diagram of one, I know I'll be making several of them! Great idea, Thanks! 
Marty, the trex ties that I'll be using are 1 inch by 3/4s inch by 10 inches long for the 2 foot gauge. They're supposed to be 4" X 6" X 5 feet long. Hopefully, I won't have any problems with warpage on those. I found a couple of sources for the size of the Maine 2 foot gauge ties, one said they used 6 X 6s, the other said 5 X 5s, but I cant verify either of those sizes. Of course, for the mine tram, the 4 X 6s will do.  
Eventually I'll have to cut the ties for the 3 foot gauge. I plan on cutting them 1-1/4 inch by 1 inch by 12 inches to approximate the size of D&RG NG ties. I think porch deck boards should work for that.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I,m in the process of making one of those "track gauges, and I've run into an interesting problem, getting the right thickness of washers to fit down on the rail snugly. If it's too sloppy, the track gauge will be off. I'll either find the right combination, or I'll have to make a shim for it.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Amber on 06 Dec 2011 09:06 AM 
I,m in the process of making one of those "track gauges, and I've run into an interesting problem, getting the right thickness of washers to fit down on the rail snugly. If it's too sloppy, the track gauge will be off. I'll either find the right combination, or I'll have to make a shim for it.
Amber

Hehehe, now I know that you really didn't think you were going to find washers that were going to measure out to exactly what you wanted.









First off, you want to make sure that the washers that you are using are not bent or warped, then make sure that you use a flat file to smooth both sides. You'll find that washers are not the most precision made items, since the common washers are usually punched out of a sheet of metal, maybe tumbled to knock off any sharp edges, but they surely aren't precision ground and if you run across ones that are they'll be costing you a lot more.









With the washers you have see how close you can get on the low side of the desired measurement, then use shim stock to get as close as you can. Shim stock, you say!!! Where am I going to get that??? Have you got a soda/beer can in the trashcan? Well the aluminum that the can is made out of is approximately 0.004" in thickness and is easily cut with scissors, or if you want brass how about your local hobby shop they likely have a K&S brass assortment of sheet of various thickness. If you strike out at the hobby shop then try an automotive parts/supply (NAPA, Advance Auto Parts, Pep Boy's, etc. etc. etc.).


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have helped to re-lay (after 80 years) some Maine Two Foot Gauge track on the WW&F Railway, We have been using used standard gauge ties cut 5 feet long and spaced on 24" centers. The original track was laid on rough cut cedar ties...I cannot speak to the length or spacing but I am sure it varied. We use two spikes per rail per tie. they are set to one side of the tie on the outside of the rail and the opposite side on the inside of the rail to avoid splitting the tie. We then alternate the side we start on from tie to tie. 

If you use your gauge to pre-drill, be a little sloppy as to how you position it on the ties so they come out a little random.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Eric, just out of curiosity, what size rail are they using? Those spikes look new. 
When I set up my tie drilling guide, I set it up with 4 holes per rail on the tie, but I only drill 2 holes, in an offset pattern. I use the same 2 holes for each rail because after I made the guide, I realized that all I had to do was turn every other tie around to get the opposite spike hole offset. Duh! Oh well, it works quite well anyway. This evening, I drilled all the ties that I have cut so far for the 2 foot gauge. I have 30 ties that are a scale 5 feet long and 10 ties that are a scale 4 feet long. A couple of the cutoff scraps that I used to cut the ties from weren't long enough to make 10 inch long ties, so they got cut to 8 inches. The rail that I have is code 332 brass in 12 inch lengths, I bought used sectional track from e-bay, and the 12 inch pieces were all I could get a good enough deal on. I pulled the rails off the plastic ties to use for this project. I haven't decided if I'm going to use 3 ties per section, or 4. 4 ties per section is roughly 3 inch spacing, center to center, 18 scale inches, and 3 ties per is roughly 4 inch spacing, 24 scale inches. That's probably better spacing for a mine tram. 
Oh ya, Steve, I was kinda hoping that I'd get lucky with the washers.  I think I found a solution that will work. I found some wire connectors with the ring terminals that seem to give the right spacing, 2 washers and 2 ring terminals. It's close enough to be snug, but not tight on the rail head.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Amost forgot, I'm making the rail gauges with a piece of 10-24 threaded rod that I scrounged up in the basement. I went to Home Depot and got the nuts and washers for it. Once I get this figured out, I might get some of those locknuts with the nylon inserts to use on it, but that will depend on how well the regular nuts stay tight. The ring terminals that I found just fit on the threaded rod that I'm using, they wouldn't fit on anything bigger.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Amber-- 

The rail we have been putting down is 60 pound rail...all used from various locations. the last batch was dated 1890(ish) cant remember the actual date. The original rail was 30-35 pound rail a couple of sections of the old rail have been uncovered...they look tiny. The spikes are new. they are smaller than standard spikes...I'll get you a photo of them if i can.



On each tie, we have the out side spike on the same side of the tie so that we do not tend force the tie out of square with respect to the rail.










here is a section we trimmed off the new rail next to my 1:20.3 engine.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

That's a nice size rail for 2 foot gauge, the railroad shouldn't have any equipment weight problems with that rail. It looks like you didn't pre-drill the spike holes on the ties, must be interesting pounding those spikes into the ties. I would imagine that the ties are wide enough, and the rails heavy enough, that there'd be no reason to use tie plates. 
I have 4 pieces of 25-30 pound rail, about 16 feet long each, that were used in copper mining operations in Michigan's Upper Penninsula, up in the "copper country" around Houghton. I traded a standard gauge ground throw "switch stand" for them. I had no use for the switch stand, they don't make much of a display, but the rails I can set up for a small mine car display. That rail is pretty small compared to anything in use on the standard gauge. It's buried under the snow right now. 
The rail diagram is how I pre drill my little ties, it's interesting to get the rails on the ties if you put the spikes in first. I push the spikes about half way down and then slide the rails between the spikes. If I had longer rails, that would be a lot trickier. I'm going to try just putting the outer spikes in the tie and then put the rails on, and then put the inner spikes on, that'll probably be easier.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

We start one spike first. its location marked with chalk using a little gauge. a few good whacks with a hand sledge hammer to start them. When we put the rail in place, we can line it up with the line of spikes. we have to adjust the location of some of the ties. 

then the "fun" begins. the spikes are driven in using a spike maul (Big hammer) and some of the old ties are OAK!!! Swinging for all you are worth gets them in in 10-20 blows! 

We generally spike the "East" rail first (our line runs generally north and south) then we use a track gauge to set the west rail and spike it down.


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