# HOAs and Garden Railroads - HELP!!



## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

Hello everyone,

My wife and I are looking to build a new home in Fort Collins, CO. One issue that has arisen with our potential home site is the associated Home Owner's Association (HOA) for the neighborhood and the concern on the part of the project manager that my garden railroad might not be approved by the HOA board due to the noise that would disrupt my neighbors quiet backyard experience. Has anyone else encountered this situation in their homes? How does one get around this, or make the case that the trains are not that noisy? Are there examples where you beat the HOA rule or convinced the board to let you have trains (even if on a limited basis)?

I'd welcome any insights or helpful stories of similar situations.

Thanks!!

Ed


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you have sound systems in your locos, you will also have a mute in most cases. 

The trains are pretty quiet running by themselves. 

First, contact your neighbors, take them a train and show it to them, like a small loop of track on the ground. (If they have kids, of course let them know you will let them come over and play every so often) 

Next get the CC&R's and read them through. 

Then go meet in person with the Landscaping Committee or whoever approves your landscaping plans. 

Should not be a problem, if you meet everyone in person. 

Greg


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thats not what I thought HOAs was, 
I have awlays made sure I don't live where there is coventants and,,,Hoas. 
We like go karts and guns and of course trains.


----------



## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

Some tips that may help from my shore-based colleagues:

1. Always invite neighbors to a future Garden Railroad party. Invite some as special 'track inspectors' to give them 'importance'.
2. Better still, always invite their kids and leave the adults out of it. This is bullet proof. But, don't worry if the Mom shows up too. This is added reinforcement. Show all the GRR videos you can get your hands on.
3. If steps 1 and 2 fail, invite the Dads to a cookout and explain what you are 'planning'. Overload the cooler with beer. This is known to work 9 out of 10 times. We only had one problem, when the neighbor did not drink even root beer.
4. When the HOA sends a letter asking you to explain the 'need' for a garden railroad, tell them it is medical and for significant mental health rehabilitation reasons. They will understand 8 out of 10 times.
5. If step 4 fails, ask them to provide in writing, names of anyone opposed to a garden railroad so you can interview them independently (over the course of a year, when you have time).
6. When the HOA becomes pig-headed, ask them for the HOA written guidelines on noise emission and EPA threshold allowance ratios in decibels for the neighborhood zone. Indicate your attorney may need exact metrics and tolerance levels to be documented.
7. It will take them up to 3 years to come up with step 6. Enjoy your railroad.
8. If all else fails, sell the home and trade-up to a more advanced neighborhood in 3 years. Indicate that you may flag them as outdoor 'unfriendly' on your blog that is visited by many real estate agents.

Cheers,
Victor


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Our HOA has "quiet hours" after 10pm, but that's the only restriction in terms of noise. Also, check the requirements for landscaping. Most don't worry too much about what's in the back yard, but some require a certain percentage of the yard be grass. (But that "requirement" here in Colorado is fast becoming unenforceable as residents cope with drought conditions and their attendant water restrictions.) In discussions with our HOA about the landscaping in our back yard, they said their primary concern is water run-off. So long as you don't do anything that's going to cause water to pool up in your neighbor's yard, they're not concerned. 

There are a fair number of outdoor railroads in Ft. Fun, many in neighborhoods with HOAs. Judging from those railroads, I'd say you've probably little, if anything, to worry about. Oh, and let me know when you get settled. I'm always up for an excuse to hit Walrus Ice Cream. (It's on Mountan, right down from the Rio Grande (best Mexican in Ft. Collins--just be careful of the margaritas!) 

Later, 

Ki


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Me, I moved out of a HOA and will never go back to one. Though my HOA and any that I have done work for in the past could care less about whats in the backyard. You have more of an issue on a townhome community where you really don't own the property but just pay taxes on it. Get a copy of the Bylaws and review. I know a friend in NY that was denied the ability to build a track outside. Next thing you know you are not allowed to have a party and turn on a radio.


----------



## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Your best bet is to run like **** away from anyplace that has an HOA. It's totally beyond me why anyone would let a bunch of fascist busybodies take away their property rights.


----------



## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I guess it's all how you look at it. Seems to me that there's nothing evil about a bunch of neighbors deciding on some standards that they all agree on. Then, if you're thinking of joining in, you find out their rules, just like you find out what the taxes will be, and decide whether or not that's the place for you. If not, there'll be other nice neighborhoods with different rules, or no rules at all, and maybe lower taxes, too. Nobody can take away your property rights if you don't live there. 

For me, I'm not interested in lawns that look like a golf course (who ever heard of a train running thru a golf course?). I can't be bothered with my lawn; mow it once a week and that's it. The guy behind me mows at least part of his lawn every day. Really - EVERY DAY! 

Different strokes. 

JackM


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Salesmanship is what it's all about. I have a "new" neighbor, of about 6 years. Not only do they iask if I will be running the trains, but their friends who visit them ask too. 

Wait until I get the Lil Big Haulers outfitted and give the kids each one to run with an iPhone or iPod .... 

This usually fascinates the kids for a minimum of 2 hours.. many thankful parents... good neighbor relations.. fun seeing the excitement and creativity of kids... 

Greg


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I would carefully read the CC&R's as a starter. Then have a meeting with the current president and try to get a feel for how strict or loose they are with those CC&R's. Some can be unbearable and in some places like the one we live in are very informal. How big is the development and HOA you are considering?


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

HOAs started out with good ideas, but have evolved through over zealous members and lawyers inputs have become quite over bearing in too many cases. 

When buying a lot or house already on a lot, the written amendments of the HOA are often inacsessible before the sale as the realtor doesn't want to jepordize the sale. 

But, no matter what the board tells you, the HOA’s lawyer may think differently. 

I strongly suggest you get what ever the board says in writing and also get a confirmation letter from the HOA’s lawyer that he agrees with what the HOA Board has stated.


----------



## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I have been on our HOAs' board of directors, and we followed the covnant pretty close....EVERYTHING has to be approved by the board, or one of the governing committies'.

You will have to submit a plan and or drawing showing what your plans are. At that point the committe may have questions for you.

The only major concerns for us were sheds, fences, above ground swimming pools, and off the wall house colors......most everything that was submitted was approved, as long as plans were submitted for approval.

The major point to bring to them is that the RR is and can be removed without any problems...NOT permenant......AND you will keep it up...that may be an issue for people that are gone for a spell and do not keep their RR up to snuff..that will open the door for them to be upset, and rightly so!

If you do things without approval, they have the power to levy fines and interest, and or even place leins on your property, we did and they still do......so play ball with them and remember they are there to protect EVERYONE's investment.

Because if you have people doing what they want you will have kaos, and houses of BRIGHT greens, purples, and reds, fushia..etc. Try reselling when you live right next to a BRIGHTLY painted home, and or someone that keeps their property like the "REAL McCOYS'".

Remember that ANYTHING you do to your house has to be approved by the HOA, or needs a building permit.

Not all HOAs' are bad, but some are..are you lucky? Ours is not bad, I have worked with the current ones' and they are very nice, but slow in approving.

Or you can be like Marty and live like the Real McCoys' Hehehehehehe

Bubba


----------



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

We had an HOA in Arizona. I wanted to cut some trees that were not very healthy.

I had to submit a plot of our property with every tree marked and show which ones I wanted to cut. Then they would make a decision and let us know.

I went ahead and cut the trees anyway.

We had a retired person who did nothing but drive through the neighborhood and report any infractions he noted.

We had to get permission to paint our house and it had to be a woodsy color, nothing bright or unnatural such as pinks, reds, violets.

But the HOA did serve the purpose of keeping our house values from falling.

Outside the HOA you could have a nice house and next door a junk yard.

John


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

I guess I am lucky. Our Condo in Sun City is adjacent to the BNSF railway into Phoenix. Let me see, backyard railroad versus a four engine combine every 1-1/2 hours....who makes the most noise? LOL. Then there is the at grade crossing at Del Webb Blvd and Grand Ave (3/4 of a mile away). Did I also mention that we are in the flight pattern for Luke AFB? F-16s are the "sound of freedom".... then of course, this is a retirement community and half the folks can't hear anyway... 

Agree you need to read those HOAs and CC&Rs. Also might want to know the local noise ordinances (since in most States, HOAs and CC&Rs can't trump County, State or Federal laws, just look at those Ham Radio towers in small neighborhoods). But of course, going to the board with your proposal (and get the approval in writing and keep it safe) is a great idea. We asked for a hot tub (water usage is an issue) and out door fire pit...even though the HOA rules were mute, it was good to have approval in writing and a discussion during our quarterly home owners meeting. 

Getting neighbors (and their kids) hyped up about trains is good, but check your homeowners policy...you now have an "attactive nuisance" in the back yard. But then I am also not a big fan of HOAs. They have good and bad points. So as Greg put it, make good neighbors, garnish some support and see what happens..... Ed


----------



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Ray Dunakin on 24 Dec 2012 01:35 PM 
Your best bet is to run like **** away from anyplace that has an HOA. It's totally beyond me why anyone would let a bunch of fascist busybodies take away their property rights. 











Yeah, what he said.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with Bubba, have same situation, but fees are even higher... they fined one guy 500 a week for a while for moving a fence to his real property line. 

$160 per application to change anything, even in your back yard. 

I do have trains and within 12" of all fencelines. 

It can be done. Just don't call them fascists when you first meet them ha ha! 


Greg


----------



## kleinbahn (Sep 21, 2010)

If I wanted someone telling me what I could or could not do where I lived, I would live again with my folks or back in the dorms at college. 

HOAs make as much sense to me as portholes on a Buick or people that find Prairie Home Companion entertaining.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well I surely don't like the costs to have the location of my rose bushes confirmed, and it's been a pain in the butt sometimes, but the value of our houses has risen steadily, ahead of the rest of the market, and the neighborhood looks very nice. 

HOAs are a sign of the times and are not likely to go away. I prefer to "work" the system. If I walked into our HOA with some of the attitudes here I'd definitely be fighting my HOA forever and being upset, instead of enjoying it. 

Greg


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well if was me as with most here I'd look else where for a place to live. So strange how folks like being told what they can and can not do. I had to put up with that crap in the Army but not now. Pick out a good area and you don't have problems and you'll enjoy it so much better. Later RJD


----------



## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Move to a metropolitan area like Oakland, CA and the daily gunshots and killings (maybe 4 a day) will far exceed the DB meter compared to that of any running Garden RR, even with sound units at max. output. 

-Ted


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 25 Dec 2012 01:58 PM 
Well if was me as with most here I'd look else where for a place to live. So strange how folks like being told what they can and can not do. I had to put up with that crap in the Army but not now. Pick out a good area and you don't have problems and you'll enjoy it so much better. Later RJD I have to agree with you RJ (about "I had to put up with that crap in the Army but not now.") I have lived in my home since 1974. Older neighborhood, homes built 1930 to 1953 (mine). NO HOA's in sight in any areas in Burbank except farther up in the hills with the brand new homes (all in the 2 million plus range). The homes in my neighborhood are 600K to 1.5 million. All are very well kept and have been for the past 39 years. Custom homes. We don't need HOA's to tell us which tree we can remove or how many rose bushes we can have or where to put 'em. I have a hard time seeing how I could live in a country with our freedoms and told what I can do with my home AND by "Committee" yet!







My daughter and son-in-law recently bought a ten year old home in San Marcos (between Oceanside and San Diego) AND they have an HOA! I couldn't believe it. I thought they were for condos.







Learn something new everyday.


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

There have been several HOA tales of woe here. I'd say "look for another location."


----------



## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

In 2010 new neighbors "moved in" beside me. I say "moved in" because they really just came down from New Jersey periodically. About three weeks after they moved in and my family's kind welcome to the neighborhood, I received the following note in the mail from my community association. Instead of talking to me they apparently sent a formal complaint, which I only heard about, to the association demanding that my trains be removed and that all outdoor trains be banned from the community. 

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i...1e8a86.jpg


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Yup, sounds like a real nice neighbor ya got there! They sound just like the kind of people who would move to Durango, CO and complain about the trains expecting that their comfort trumps anything else (of course, most of those people are Californians!) I seriously think that these kind of people need to relocate to a tropical paradise....right before a Cat. #5 hurricane levels the place!! Maybe _then_ they will get their priorities straightened out! (Yes, I'm being b*tchy! I don't like and and am getting old enough that I really don't want to tolerate those kind of people!) From my perspective, live in a community with an HOA and you can expect to have to put up with BS like this!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rmcintir on 25 Dec 2012 06:42 PM 
In 2010 new neighbors "moved in" beside me. I say "moved in" because they really just came down from New Jersey periodically. About three weeks after they moved in and my family's kind welcome to the neighborhood, I received the following note in the mail from my community association. Instead of talking to me they apparently sent a formal complaint, which I only heard about, to the association demanding that my trains be removed and that all outdoor trains be banned from the community. 

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i...1e8a86.jpg Wow! I can't believe that a committee, made up of YOUR neighbors, have this kind of control over Your rights to YOUR private property! What in the **** is the advantage to "living" in this kind of community?









Steve,

"(of course, most of those people are Californians!"

Not ALL Californians, I hope. I love Colorado and I think my days are numbered out here. I think me and my next door neighbor, are the "only ones" paying for the other 99.9%!


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

When the city folk moved in above and behind me I didn't care until I confronted them as they started to build a barbed wire fence between us. Notified they wanted to park a horse on that hillside, I said 'no way will my yard be your horse's toilet.' 
I went on line and printed the county ordinances out and made them stop. They left within a year when they found out that the laws applied to them 'way out here'. Had they persisted the Health Dept was my next call. 
I left the herd and can protect my interests as needed. 
I took 6 months to find the property I liked, out in the country away from the sheperds. 

Ya roll yer dice and take yer chances..... 

VSmith great pic, got me giggling.... 

Happy New Year! 

John


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

People from Colorado have always complained that Californians were ruining their state, since I started working and visiting there in 1975 or 6... 

I finally got fed up hearing this on evening and turned to a person there complaining and said: 

"I promise that not one more Californian will come to Colorado if you promise to keep all the other idiots out that are moving to California" ... he shut up... 

It's easy to blame others for your problems... 

Greg


----------



## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

I forgot to mention the best part of the story and it has nothing to do with HOAs. The "new" neighbors moved out. Now I have better "real" neighbors that like trains!


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary: Right on with your statement also. I agree they should move some of the folks out and put them on there very own Island and then they can do what ever they want. Ya it's pretty bad that they even tell ya you got to paint your grass green so it's not brown in the winter and you can not leave your car in the drive has to be put in the garage. It just goes on and on. Later RJD


----------



## Joe Mascitti (Oct 30, 2008)

Tell the head of the HOA to "F" off....but do it politely......


Joe


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I live in Fort Collins. We have an HOA. It really never occured to me that I should ask about building a garden railroad in my backyard. We have annual open house events, so it is common knowledge by many in the neighborhood what lives in my backyard. My backdoor neighbor, who was on the HOA board at one time actually brought up my railroad as an example of how some "odd" improvements can be done behind a fence, and not bother anyone. ANyway, I have never had a compaint about the RR. My next door neighbor doesn't really care for the the sounds, but it is only minor grumbling.

Welcome to Fort Collins. Contact me. We have a very nice club here: Northern Colorado Garden Railroaders.

And by the way Kevin, The RIO is absolutley NOT the best mexican food in town. Not even close.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Before deciding to buy land in AZ. we looked in many locations first.... Prior to here I lived in N. NV. I have traveled to S. CA to visit family, or from S. CA to Nev. for holiday visits when I was younger.

So I took a liking to the Eastern Sierras, and Bishop. I love this area...

We started looking at different areas that were for sale, on one trip we would talk with people to get more feed back and ideas... 

Then it hit... We talked with a young couple building their own home North of town, you had to have a huge garage...for your cars, trucks, RV's, boats, race cars, trailers. What ever could roll 'could not be parked in front of the garage overnight.............' 

never went back........... 

John, Marty and others like Myself have 'found' what we want in open country and land that suits us!! Better, than being controlled by others... 

Dirk ...


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

When Jo Anne and I were looking to buy a home in No. VA, we looked at several places in Reston, since it was where we both worked. When we found a place we liked, I asked to see the covenants of the "Reston HOA". I was told that they would be provided at the time we closed on the house. I went to the main office and asked to see a copy of this voluminous document and was met with stares of disbelief. It took a lot of fussing to get the office manager to finally allow me to sit there and read parts of it. We ended up NOT buying there... the realtor said "If you are that concerned with the restrictions, then we would not want you living here". Things may have changed, but I heard far too many painful stories during my 35 years working at USGS. I discovered that Reston neighborhoods were often very different in their enforcement approach, as long as people from other places could not see what was there from the street. 

We bought a home on the north side of Herndon in a small development [136 homes] that had an HOA. I became a member of the ARB to facilitate the approval of my railroad. I had to submit a site plan, list of construction materials, and types of plants. Everything was fine until the lady behind us decided to sell her house. The FIRST thing her [no offense {female}] agent did was go to the president of the HOA and demand in writing that my "eyesore" be removed as it detracted from her client's property. She was refused... the house did not sell. Her next agent [male], saw me in the yard and asked if I would mind running trains on the days when he scheduled an open house. I said sure. Almost every family that stopped by ended up with the kids watching/running trains. My neighbor sold her house in 18 days. Our railroad was finally removed when I sold MY home. 

When we looked at buying the property where we now live, there was no HOA, but there were some covenants attached to the deed. We read them in advance... no more than three dump trucks at once, NO PIGS, and a couple of other minor things. Since we knew we wanted to build a 7.5 in ride-on RR eventually, I met with the neighbors with a small bobber caboose in tow. No one had any objections. So the gauge 1/0 has 3800 feet of track and the 'other' project [still in work] extends about 2000 feet. 

Even with Del T's experience in Ft Collins... beware, not all HOAs are the same. AND it only takes one or two people who don't share your interest to try to poop in your mess kit.


----------



## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

The secret to a railroad in your backyard is to use the clause "Children's Playground". My father used this and it got approved because most HOA's have clauses to allow children's playgrounds. I also have gotten my garden railway approved with this method. 
They made a few funny faces but allowed it. 

Make sure you get everything in writing, HOA's change people all the time, you dont want to get approved only to just get "disapproved" by the next management group.


----------



## neals645 (Apr 7, 2008)

My worst mistake ever - agreeing to run for President of HOA when we lived in CA. Two kinds of homeowners always expected me to take their side - those that wanted to do whatever with their property, and those who wanted neighbors to stop doing whatever. Now we live in OR with no HOA. It's heaven!
Neal


----------



## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Something that was not touched upon here that is a very serious matter...The HOA is not the only one to worry about.
ANY home owner can take you to court, start ANY legal action against you if you are infringing on their rights, likes, or disslikes, and most importantly their money from selling their house or you keeping them from getting their house sold because of a fushia painted house.
When I was part part of our HOA, we hoped that neighbors would step up and take their troublsome neighbor to court, file suit, what ever so we did not have to go down that route and spend HOA money on it...noone did, so we did it... but it could and does happen.

So if you think the HOA is the only one that can take you to court, better think twice, and get along with your neighbors' or you might just find living next to a pissed off neighbor worse then ANY HOA could ever be!

Remember court fees and lawyers shark fees can become a monumental drain on your finances if you have limited funds in the first place..
Just because you THINK you own your land, doesn't mean you can damn well do what you want to on it.....

You only lease your land from the USA, in the form of taxes....try not paying your house taxes and see just how quick Unkle Sam evicts you and your family..

When dealing with the HOAs' and neighbors' it is better to use honey then bitters...

OK Ed try deleting this big boy!


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

And by the way Kevin, The RIO is absolutley NOT the best mexican food in town. Not even close. 
Where would you recommend? I frequented the Rio (mostly for the margaritas I must admit--and after a few of those, Taco Bell tastes authentic) and the Armadillo. Outside of that, it was mostly the local sandwich shops near campus, most of which have come and gone multiple times since I graduated. Always up for good Mexican, and since I'm usually the one driving when we head up there, the Rio's margs are decidedly out of the question. 

HOAs, out here at least, are mostly a necessary evil. Most, if not all of the newer communities are planned developments with their own parks/recreation facilities and other common areas, hence the need to at least collect some kind of "dues" to maintain them, and some kind of governing board to keep things being maintained. So, with that in place, it's generally accepted to add by-laws and other covenants to govern individual landscaping and other things so to match the character and upkeep of the common areas. Yeah, on one hand, you surrender some of your "freedom" to do your own thing. The trade-off is that your neighbors do the same thing. The key is--as has been said--to work within the confines of the system. "Children's Playgrounds," "Lawn Ornaments" and similar things are often exempt from needing HOA approval provided they don't violate the overall guidelines. Ours, for example, has a height restriction on play equipment, but beyond that anything goes. 

Later, 

K


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

well Kevin, so much for tall mountains in the back yard, eh! 

:~} 

A big part of one's life to help with this are simple "priorities"... 

What do you want? 
Are you willing to give up anything for what you want? 
How will you choose to balance the priorities in this or any other situation...? 

Dirk


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Avoid HOA's at all costs -- period. The fact that they will screw with your garden railroad plans is the least of your worries. Many states have heavy bureaucratic laws that require frequent inspections and audits of HOA's. The HOA business entity has to pay tax based on the number of homes as well. The HOA simply passes the cost off to the home owners. Most HOA's around here have raised monthly fees ten fold in the past 5 years to meet all the state bullshirt. It will only get worse.

If they balk at your garden railroad plans, they will screw with you on EVERYTHING, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING. Forget this idea of telling the HOA to blow off. They have more ways to make your life miserable then you can imagine.

CCR's are pretty much meaningless. They mostly cover new construction, and after the project is built out they are interpreted by the BOD's as they see fit. BOD's come and go. They can be decent people or real pricks. Don't spend 100's of K's on your dream home and then risk dealing with a jerk HOA.

Build somewhere else

Bob Sorenson
Secretary, Maui One Estates Homeowner's Association


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Rocky ( a MLS member) had a absolutely horrible time with a HOA in Florida. 

He had a layout in his back yard. He had to take it up for some reason.

Then they would not let him put it back

They serve no good purpose as far as I am concerned.

They are nothing abut a bunch of control freaks.

My sister lived in a gated community for which he had to pay for a HOA. 

Then she had to pay for a HOA in the community that the gated community was in.

So she had to pay for two HOAs 

They suck big time 

I wish you the best of luck and hope they will work with you 

JJ


----------



## HampshireCountyNarrowGage (Apr 4, 2012)

JackM 
(who ever heard of a train running thru a golf course?) 
Well it just so happens, the New Haven RR had a branchline in northern Massachusetts that ran thru the middle of a golf course in Millers Falls, MA. When the New Haven pulled out the Boston & Maine took over the branch. All gone now. 
You did ask. 

Chester Louis SA #64 
Hampshire County Narrow Gauge


----------



## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

In Massachusetts we have a trolley line that goes through the middle of a cemetery. 
LAO


----------



## HampshireCountyNarrowGage (Apr 4, 2012)

OOPS. Wrong town. The town is Turners Falls MA. It's just north of Greenfield. 

Chester Louis SA #64 
Hampshire County Narrow Gauge


----------



## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Wait just a darn minute there, buddy. I have a '55 Buick with THREE portholes on a side, AND I think Garrison Keeler is the best story-teller in America today (outside of politics). 

I've got an HOA in Palm Springs, and none at home. You've got to play by the rules, whether they are the county's or the HOA's. Read 'em and work with 'em. I set up a loop on my patio in PS, and it extends into a common area on blocks. Nothing permanent, and I take it down when I leave. I've not asked permission, but I've gotten no flack -- about that!


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

As I recall, the main line of the Milwaukee Road from Chicago to Madison, Wisconsin ran through a golf course just northwest of Janesville. Chuck


----------



## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

In Florida the HOA's are too dictatorial. The court cases involving them and homeowners are in the papers on a daily basis. My last home had one, but the rules were reasonable, and I had no problems building a railroad in my back yard. We are looking for some land to build on (smaller home)so we can have a new railroad. Most HOA's down here will not let you have an outdoor railroad.


----------



## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

Well, I received word from the HOA Board and President that I can have a garden railroad in my backyard at our new house. Here are the conditions under which I must build/operate it. They seem a bit excessive, but I can live with them. I just wanted to have my cake (a beautiful home, boarding a natural area, with a mountain view) and eat it too (have a garden railroad).
Do not alter drainage swales or fall away from the home. Do not create a dam or block drainage from surrounding properties. If the downspouts are buried they must daylight in the yard. All plantings adjacent to the open space area must be plants selected from the city of Fort Collins Native Plants List and will occur in loose massing’s to mimic nature as closely as possible. Per the soils engineers recommendations no high water plants should be planted within 5' of the foundation. Drought tolerant or drip line only plantings must be installed in all areas within 5' of the foundation to prevent excessive wetting in the backfill zone of the foundation. Extreme care must be used when installing a patio, sidewalks or stepping stones in the backfill zone around the foundation. These areas will experience settlement particularly within the first 5' out from the foundation wall. The homeowner assumes all costs associated with any settlement in this area once a patio, sidewalk or stepping stones have been installed over the backfill zone and is 100% responsible for all costs associated with any repairs needed to the patio, sidewalk or stepping stones related to settling soils in this area. Builder strongly recommends special care be taken in the compaction of the soil under the paver patio to limit the amount of settlement under the paver patio after installation. Wood retaining walls and planter boxes are not permitted at this community. All retaining walls, steps and raised areas must be constructed of cement block, poured concrete or stacked stone. Per the city approval final plat the developer will install the appropriate street tree(s) in the tree lawn area, between the sidewalk and the curb and gutter. The type, size and location of the street tree is established by the city on the approved community landscaping plan.The area between the city sidewalk and the curb and gutter must be irrigated sod. Small islands of mulch around the street trees are permitted.All landscaping rock install in the rock bed areas must be of similar size and color of the rock installed by the builder as a standard feature on all homes at the WaterLeaf community. White chipped rock and lava rock are prohibited at this community.The operation of the train in the rear yard of the home must be limited to the hours of 8:00 AM to 8:00 PM provided daylight is available during those hours. The train must not be run after sunset.No bright lights on the railroad that would cause light pollution, or that would impact wildlife and birds in the marsh, will be allowed with this installation. No loud noises made by the trains, or the railroad, will be permitted with this installation. All tracks for this installation must be laid no more than 12” off ground level and landscaped to make them “blend” into the rear yard landscaping.No model buildings associated with this installation may be in excess of 30” tall or grouped in large numbers.Homeowner agrees to submit a formal proposal for approval showing location of the train track and landscaping plans for the rear yard. [/list]


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very weird about sunset and running in the dark... can't imagine why that rule... maybe they thought they could limit you because it does not make sense to them to run in the dark?ar 

I'd counter that... no other activity in people's back yards are limited to different times whether it's light or dark are they? If so, this is an unreasonable discrimination. 

Also there MUST be a sound limit for EVERYONE in terms of decibels... the sound limit from the trains should be the same as anyone else's limit for other things, like fountains, water features, AC units, etc. 

Our rules do not treat outdoor layouts any different than kind's swing sets or other non-permanent things, as it should be. 

Greg


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The only thing I can think of relative to the restrictions to daylight hours only would be in conjunction with their concerns about light pollution. I might be inclined to press them for their reasons for such a restriction--especially if they don't single out other similar activities (fire pits, back-yard parties, etc.) to daylight hours. Most of us who run at night do so with little more than maybe a back porch light or a string of party lights along the fence for illumination--far less light, in fact, than many neighbors' patios. On the other hand, if you don't foresee yourself running at night but once in a while, I wouldn't worry about it. Chances are good that your neighbors will love the railroad and not give a fig if they see trains running after the sun sets on occasion. Mine don't, and I'm typically running as late as midnight. (I do keep the sound turned way down after 10pm...) 

Later, 

K


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

I don't know how I missed out on this one ...
JJ was right, I had one H*ll of a time with the HOA Nazis. Can you tell I don't like them !?! 
The present board of directors where you want to go might let you build, but the next time after the elections and new folks get in, that can all change. 

When I first built my layout, I went and got permission in writing from the board and the property manager. All was good, there were rules, but I had no problems with them. THEN a couple years later, a new board was voted in and EVERYTHING changed. As stated before, these folks were all power freaks and were "yes" men and women to the property manager and would do and agree to everything he said. Now HOAs are suppose to work for the home/condo owners and the property manager is suppose to work for the board. Not the HOA working for the property manager and the home owners working to support the board, this is what happened where I used to live. So I had to remove my layout even though it was "Grandfathered" in writing. I was told if I didn't take it down I would be fined, taken to court and the layout bulldozed at MY expense. HOAs get worse too, if you get the wrong people in, things can change like at my old condo community. It used to be the condo community had amenities such as free basic cable, free water, use of the clubhouse, etc. for the ASSociation dues you paid, But that all changed. The free cable was taken away, when I left they were starting to install water meters on the buildings so folks had to pay for their water. THey also raised the dues like 15-20% too. All the finances of the HOA became secret. They kept saying they were broke and had to raise the dues because of foreclosures and that over a 1/3rd of the units were not paying dues. I tried to run for the board along with some other condo owners, campained and looked as I would get in, but when the time came for voting. The property manager sat at the door and said who could and who couldn't vote. He said you needed some sort of voting certificate - WTF ??? I'm sooo glad we were able to move out of there and to our own home that DOES NOT have an HOA.

So my experiance with HOAs has been a bad one. I'll NEVER do it again. 
If you like having others tell you what you can and can't do, then go for it. I've heard of HOAs telling people what color they HAVE to paint their houses too. I like my freedoms to do what I like, what plants I can plant, etc. My advice for someone who wants to do garden railways - Avoid HOAs at all costs !!! 


They may say yes right now, but like I said before, that can all change in the future... 

Take it from someone who's been there









Rocky


----------



## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

It's my plan to observe my other neighbors and see what level of light and noise they have and then reapproach the board if need be. I know that the after dark rule is related to both light and noise - but mostly to light. The light restriction is related to the fact that our new house backs onto a natural wetland area that is controlled by the city of Fort Collins. They have pretty strict rules about natural areas. The city actually dictates the lighting situation in the backyards of the homes on this area. So, this requirement is not from the HOA, but rather from the city. Our back porch lights (installed by the builder) are a special low level low luminosity kind that will not impact birds and wildlife in the natural area. The noise worry is less clear to me. I think they believe that these trains make a lot of noise (I mean hey, they are "trains" right?). I have one video of my old layout where the birds are actually louder than the trains. Since I don't run with sound cards, my trains are very quiet. I suspect that once they see/hear one actually running that this will not be a problem. I could probably run at night and no one would know anyway (though I seldom run at night) My neighbor's lawn mower and crying two year old kid will be louder - so I think I can win this battle (or make them look stupid and clearly unfair if I don't). I'll let you know how it all turns out, but for now, I'm planning to build in late spring early summer.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Sounds great! Yell if you need some help. 

Later, 

K


----------



## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Ahhh....all this talk about HOAs, just makes me like my 40 acres out in the middle of the woods, that much better. I do have to say that I had to get permission from the Land Baron and she can drive a hard bargin but it was a win, win. She is happy and I'm happy.


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Funny, 
The Omaha World Herald just had an article a few days ago about a guy and him fighting with his HOA. Same thing, board had some new members and was bugging him some. Now in court.


----------



## Joe Mascitti (Oct 30, 2008)

Ask them if there are restrictions on when you can go to the bathroom, and if the person who wrote those restrictions will come to your house and wipe when your done....


Too much control...


Joe


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

Same here, so happy to have my own place now and nobody to come and tell me what to and not to do with my property








Many here remember my fight with the ASSoc. people. It was not a good time







I wanted to make war with them, but settled on modeling 1/18th scale WWII models and figures with LGB Euro trains indoors. THis is when I dropped off the radar here for a couple years. But now I've settled into my own zone, still indoors, but alot more space !!! I can run fair sized trains again (40-50 cars) and not have to pull weeds either. Perhaps a person has to go thru h*ll to gain a better understanding of being happy, but being in a different (non HOA) place sure helped out alot too. I'd rather do all the outside chores - mowing, trimming etc. myself then have zero minded zombie day workers (that's what the HOA used, the cheapest way) to come and cut my bushes into square boxes, scalp my grass, etc. No more HOAs, EVER and happy for it









Rocky


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Get a cheap DB meter so you can give readngs of the birds, and of the trains... MAKE them give you a measurable limit in db for sound, rules have to be applied fairly to all... it does not matter if it is a train, dog, hvac unit... 

You'll be able to prove you trains don't make too much noise. 

With light, you should be able to prove that your trains make less light than your porch light. 

Make them put the rules in an objective, measurable state... then you can prove you are within the rules. 

You'll win... 

My HOA tried this with my fountain... saying it was too noisy... sent them a video of complaining neighbor's dogs that showed the db meter... they went away. 

Greg


----------

