# Oxygen/propylene welding setup



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Last night picked up a set at Lowes for $65.

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I couldn't find it in Lowe's online catalog so here's photos.

I'm still reading the instructions. There are many pages of warnings I'm trying to sponge up before reading how to braze, weld and cut.

It is supposed to be able to do mild steel, aluminum (with some difficulty) and etc.


The biggest disadvantage I see is getting new oxygen bottles, which run out in 25 or 30 minutes depending on the flame. For cutting, it can last just 8 minutes! Fortunately, I'm using the setup for occasional hobby purposes.


The salesman told me it's got everything I need to get started and said I didn't need a welding mask but when I started reading instructions, it said I do need to purchase some ANSI approved shade goggles (not a full welding mask).


Since this is my first welding setup, I'd appreciate any comments on your experiences with this, strengths, limitations. I don't need long safety lectures, as I'm following the instructions precisely.

One stupid question. Is propylene the same thing as propane?

Thanks

Dave V


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## hawkeye2 (Jan 6, 2008)

Proplyene and propane are not the same. Propylene is an excelent fuel for cutting (burning) as it develops its maximum heat a little past the bule inner cone of the flame as opposed to acyletene. This means that the torch to work distance is increased leading to longer tip life and since the distance is also less critical cutting is made easier for beginners. Another advantage of proplyene is that there is less slag generated so clean up is easier. When welding it does have some shortcomings however. Since the heat is more difuse you end up with a larger weld puddle (pool of molten metal) and more heat distortion than with the intense pinpoint of an acyletene flame.
Your photos didn't show up for me and I couldn't click on the boxes and bring anything up I don't know what you have for an outfit so I can't offer advise there. What exactly do you wish to be able to do?


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Hi, Bernzomatic OX 2550 outfit. Plan to try my hand at some bridges welding bedframes and maybe cutting them, if my hacksaw doesn't do the trick (I'll still try to manually cut thing first as I realize the oxygen uses up quickly and this will cut down on expenses). I might also do some non-railroad stuff like steel rack for my kayak and some weightroom builds). Also, may weld some thin metal parts together for trains such as skip frames and maybe a metal boxcar. Also, eventually may make a motor block chassis on which to add motor, gears, axle housing. Stuff like that, maybe even some building or structure supports. 

I can see the photos OK, btw. Hmmmm


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I can't see them either, but not the typical red X box, yours have a landscape icon. 

I'd suggest a chop saw or a Sawzall type reciprocating saw for those bedframes. I have the recipro because it is more versatile, but the chopper will make cutting many parts the same length much easier. 

Hawkeye2, thanks for explanation. 

John


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

2nd try


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

ah, if you can't see my photos, I did discover a direct link to the setup I purchased. 
http://www.bernzomatic.com/PRODUCTS...etail/mid/1147/xmid/6954/xmfid/3/Default.aspx


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave

Don't know what methodology you're using in creating the image links, but base on your reply time-stamped 21 Jan 2011 05:43 AM it looks like you're pasting from MS/Word maybe. Anyway what's happening is that there are two src="" attributes being created for each image element, and that's why they are not working.


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi Dave, 
I agree with John, cut off saw or Sawzall will make short work of the type of material you are using. As far as welding goes, gas is good for some specific applications but it is much faster and I think easier to go with a wire feed welder setup. You can get a 110 volt wire feed welder that uses flux core wire (no gas needed) that is robust enough for most garden railway projects at Harbor Fright for $110. All you need is a welding helmet, welding gloves & a wire brush (to remove powder slag) and your good to go. Oh ya a 4" inch angle grinder to use as an eraser for them uh-ohs. 
Harbor Freight 
http://www.harborfreight.com/welding/mig-flux-welders/90-amp-flux-wire-welder-98871.html 
http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/grinders.html 
Best, Ted


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

thanks; eventually might move up to that. Just joined a Welding forum for therapy. LOL


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Joined the welding forum and they said to return the junk I bought. They recommended MIG or acetylene. So, no support there. Guess I'll return the stuff tonight as it's still unopened. They also said don't go to Harbor Freight. 

Dave


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Well... 
I agree with them except for the Harbor Freight statement. Welding is like any other activity that requires a specific tool. As far as welders go I have a 110 volt Miller welder I bought for doing a home security & wrought iron business I had. I paid about $500 for it. But I was using it everyday - all day. I am not a shill for Harbor Fright nor do I get any kind of kick back from sending them new customers. My feeling is this, why spend a lot of money on a tool that gets light usage ( read sits most of the time)? I will say this, tools are one of them "you get what you pay for" deals. If you think you will be doing "a lot" of welding then by all means spend the bucks on a quality welder. I would recommend these brands: 
Miller, Lincoln or Hobart, all make good machines. If you intend to weld outside I would recommend flux core (core shield) wire vs. gas shield as any breeze out side tends to blow the gas away from the weld and you get a substandard weld. 
Best, Ted


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Dave, 

I concur with the Welders Forum thoughts. I believe you were going to be disappointed with this stuff based on your to do list... A small oxy/acetylene unit like what’s typically used in the refrigeration/HVAC industry would do nicely for all you describe in my experience. Essentially these rigs are miniature versions of the real thing. I think I paid about $325.00 for a set a few years ago including bottles, gauges, regulators, cutting torch, hoses, goggles and carry tote. Stay away from off brand stuff here as proprietary replacement tips and the like are not as easy to come by later. 

We've been using 120V Migs for twenty years or better, flux core wire works great for most stuff and are very handy outdoors when a breeze is present as Ted noted above. The Miller and Lincoln 120V units we have are equipped for inert gas use too. Only problem with flux core is harder to learn with IMO and its messy comparatively. My advice here is purchase a name brand unit, Lincoln or Miller would be best IMO, Hobart is doable to but if I recall it’s a lower end unit compared to years past (Miller bought them out) these units provide an entry level machine (aluminum verses copper wire transformers and more). Best case is to counsel with a Welder repair station for up to date info on what needs repair or not..... In the past I have used inexpensive imported Migs and was not impressed! Home Depot and other box stores offer Lincoln and perhaps Miller too. These are not the same units available at a welding supply, there intended/offered for the weekend warrior, albeit there a little cheaper I'd stay with the mainline stuff. 

Michael


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Harbor Freight 
For a long time I thought of them as a throw away tool store, buy it for a job, use it and if there is still life then I come out ahead. 
I will say that buying their lifetime warrantee, will get you a new unit without a lot of hastle, they know their stuff breaks, but they get it cheap enough that can replace 'em and still make money. 

I have an Oxy/Accetylene set up with full size tanks, what a relief to get through a project with out having to go buy or refill a smaller tank. I use Victor tips and handles for the same reason, they last. My J-27 handle is going on 40 years and is still in great shape... I use this for soldering more than welding. Bought my tanks from a welding supply co,

You get what you pay for... 

John


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The trouble with that little set up isn't so much that it's 'junk', but that those little disposable bottles will run you a small fortune if you use it more than 5 minutes about twice a year. 

If you buy a bigger torch, don't bother spending the extra $$ buying new bottles, either, since most welding gas places just exchange them not refill. Ask if they have used. If the salesman gives you a line about new being somehow "better" -- walk away and go someplace else. He just wants the commission. 

Oxy-fuel welding is a dying art. A real shame, as it's kind of like Zen --- Your entire world focuses down to that bright little puddle of molten metal. 

One thing others may not have mentioned is that an oxy-fuel rig is actually more flexible than a MIG for occasional light work. You can braze dissimilar metals with it. If you have the cutting tip you can cut with it. It's slower, so it's often easier to control the heat input so you don't blow through as much. You can use ANY old bit of mild steel for a rod when welding sheetmetal (I'm fond of old coathangers). It won't birdnest just as you get in the groove. and (for smaller stuff or in a pinch) you can even use it like a smith does his forge to heat things for bending or other work... 

"Pro" weldors (a welder is a machine, a weldor is a person who does it) don't often use oxy-fuel because it's slower, labor intensive, limited to lighter stuff, surface prep and fit up is more critical, and for so many jobs just plain more expensive... not because MIG welding produces superior weld. (Well I suppose it can -- in the hands of an amateur. There is a bit longer learning curve with oxy-fuel since you gotta do more than just point and push the button)


Fact: most artists that work metal use oxy-fuel. 


And yes, you'll need the dark goggles, heavy work gloves, and a long sleeve shirt...


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

I just came across this book "Welding" by Don Geary . I found a copy at my local library, so didn't have to buy it to check it out. It should have been titled "Soldering, Brazing, and Gas Welding & Cutting", because it covers those quite well but doesn't cover arc, MIG, nor TIG except for an explanatory paragraph or two. The illustrations are quite weak, but the text is good, especially in the section on gas welding. Recommended reading for a beginner. 

Re. the reference above to using wire coat hangers for welding rod: Geary mentions that, and advises strongly against it on the basis of the quality of the steel. He includes an anecdote of a friend who welded in the motor mounts for a car with coat hanger wire, and the welds promptly failed under load. Why go dirt cheap when good welding rod is the least of your expenses?


Gotta agree with the Zen comment with regard to gas welding and brazing. Wire feed feels more like a high-wire act.


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