# need some pictures of "Bear"



## spring (Apr 24, 2012)

Hi guys,]


Does anyone know the "Bear Harbor Lumber Co.#1", I am planning to build a mdel of it, and try my best to make it identical to the real loco in G scale.










I have collected someoriginal photos of , but that is not enough, I still need to know structure of classis. 

Can anyone help me by providing more photos of the prototype loco?









Thanks a lot.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you considered visiting the actual locomotive in at Fort Humbolt in Eurika, CA?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOEUQ0gfe5k


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By spring on 26 Sep 2012 01:07 AM 
Hi guys,]


Does anyone know the "Bear Harbor Lumber Co.#1", I am planning to build a mdel of it, and try my best to make it identical to the real loco in G scale.









I have collected someoriginal photos of , but that is not enough, I still need to know structure of classis. 

Can anyone help me by providing more photos of the prototype loco?









Thanks a lot.
Did'nt we have this discussion already? Bear Harbor is also a standard gauge loco, so you will have either have to build it in 1:32 or create a caricature of it. Excellent drawings were published some years ago in "Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette". Why not select a narrow gauge engine as a prototype?
Regards


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Short Line and Narrow Gauge Gazette did detailed plans a few years ago, I don't remember when but I do know they were fairly detailed.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 26 Sep 2012 08:37 AM 
Short Line and Narrow Gauge Gazette did detailed plans a few years ago, I don't remember when but I do know they were fairly detailed. That's what I already posted








Here is the index:
JAN/FEB 1993 P 6 
BEAR HARBOR # 1 AT FORT HUMBOLT STATE PARK FAHEY~BILL 1 JUL/AUG 2000 D 36 
BEAR HARBOR LUMBER # 1 LOCO 3/8 SCALE WITH PIPING ETC ARMITAGE~AL 4 JUL/AUG 2000 P 34 
BEAR HARBOR LUMBER # 1 LOCO AT FORT HUMBOLDT JOHNSTON~STEVE 4 JUL/AUG 2000 P 34 
BEAR HARBOR LUMBER # 1 LOCO CA STATE RAILROAD MUSEUM 1999 BROWN~BOB 4 JUL/AUG 2000 P 35 
BEAR HARBOR LUMBER # 1 LOCO THREE VIEWS OF THE GYPSY LOCO BERG~BERT 4 
"P" means photo and "D" means drawing.
Regards


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I think someone makes it in G scale. Recall some ads awhile back.Found it, Missouri Locomotive Works
BearLoco 

Contact info here:
ContactInfo


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 26 Sep 2012 03:35 PM 
I think someone makes it in G scale. Recall some ads awhile back.Found it, Missouri Locomotive Works
BearLoco 

Contact info here:
ContactInfo 
Like the Falk, it's also the wrong gauge. In this case the narrow frame does not look as strange as the elongated crank pins of the Falk.
Regards


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

if you want some good photos of the Missouri Loco Works 'Bear' model. 
Greg Posta has a bunch of nice images on his website: 

http://www.rgsrrhobbies.com/Mo-Lo-Co-Bear.html 

Here is one below (I'm sure he won't mind)


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I got this email back in a query I sent. 

THE BEAR IS ALL BRASS CONSTRUCTION. 

Is it electric powered, or live steam? 

IT IS ELECTRICALLY POWERED. 


WE DID SELL A FALK TO A CUSTOMER WHO COMBINED THE UPPER PORTION OF OUR MODEL TO AN ACCUCRAFT RUBY LIVE STEAM. I WOULD ASSUME THAT THE SAME IS POSSIBLE WITH THE BEAR MODEL. 
ALLEN 
MOLOCO


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, Allen is talking about Sonny Wizelman, it was written up in Issue 109 of SitG.


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

These are still distortions of the real loco like Henner points out. Since accuracy is pretty much out the window I'm going to make a Daylight in 1:20.3 for 45mm track. Hows that for a project idea? ;-)

To be fair I am okay with fantastical creations but if you worked off the drawings in NG&SLG you would have to do some major re-engineering to squeeze a "G scale" model onto 45mm track.

Regards,


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

None of our models are perfect. As a very good friend of mine, a fellow who was a prolific builder of steam engines from a Challenger in 1.6in scale on 7 1/2" gauge down to 0-4-0's in 4 3/4" gauge, always said "you can't scale fire and you can't scale water so except it". If you look at Sonny's model it's very well done so if "spring" wants to do it to fit 45mm track I say go for it.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan,
Spring explicitly wrote:

"I am planning to build a model of it, and try my best to make it identical to the real loco in G scale"

If he changes the gauge, then the main proportions are off. If he wants to build a nice looking and unusual free lance loco, he can of course pretend the prototype was narrow gauged at some point and go for it. This happened in real life quite frequently. I disagree with the scaling: Of course you can't scale the inside of the boiler/cylinder but it is still possible to retain a scale look from the outside. The opposite approach is to design a miniature steam locomotive from scratch and make it somehow a look-alike of a prototype. This is what LBSC did in the old days. BTW, the haulage wagon of my Guinness loco is also the wrong gauge, but I never insisted on this being an absolute scale model (though I did not change the proportions). LGB is (was) a master of rubber gauge. The scale is typically different in all 3 dimensions...
Regards


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

The Missouri Locomotive works Product looks to be narrow gauge and looks great! I would say build what you want some of us might grouse, but then, it isn't our engine. 
Being a two footer at heart, the broad gauge "Bear" prototype proportions look off to me!


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I seem to have missed something, why can't a 4' 8.5" gauge engine be built to run on 45mm track? 
The gauge 1 folks and Aster have been doing for years in either 3/8" or 10mm to the foot. 

Harvey C. 
SA1838


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess I missed something also. You have to work with 45mm track so what ever gauge the real one was, scale the model to represent 45mm to the real one's gauge. 1/32 for 4'8 1/2", 1/20.3 for 3' and so on.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, 
as I understand spring (what is your real name?), he wants to build in "G" scale, which I interpret as 1:20. If he builds it in 1:32 it gets really tiny and it will be hard to turn it out as a live steamer. When I searched for a prototype of a logging locomotive some years ago, I also looked at the drawings of Falk and Bear Harbor. "Narrow gauging" them would have changed the proportions too much. So I settled for a 3' prototype - Betsy from Madera Sugar Pine: 



So spring has 3 options: 
1. Build it in 1:32 
2. "Narrow gauge" the design for 1:20 
3. Select a 3' prototype 

If he wants scans of the drawings, send me a PM. 
Regards


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

The issue is that Bear Harbor (and the Falk for that matter) are incredibly small and light standard gauge prototypes. To build a working live steam model in 1:32 scale would be a monumental challenge in miniature mechanics. It can definitely be done but it would be a tiny tinkerbell of a model. Mr Spring keeps asking for "accurate" drawings of these prototypes. In the case of the Falk he wasn't even satisfied to reference the Bill Harris book on the 7.5" gauge model because of "inaccuracies". The issue is that he wants to build in "G scale" for 45mm and yet somehow remain accurate. If you look at the MOLOCO model of Bear Harbor it has a gauge inaccuracy of greater than 30% so it is essentially a freelance narrow gauge model. Freelancing is great. I am a HUGE fan of Sonny Wizelman's work. Most of my modeling is freelance so I am certainly no stickler for historical accuracy. What Henner and I are commenting on is that there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the scale/gauge relationship going one here. My comments are in no way meant to attack or discourage. I apologize if it comes off as hostile. I hope that Mr. Spring can build a model inspired by one of these fascinating prototypes. I just hope he understands that he will not be able to attain full accuracy (which seems to be his desire) if he builds one of these in narrow gauge.

Regards,


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, I now understand, of course you're correct that in a scale of 1/32, to make the track standard gauge, the engine would be minuscule. Some of the Aster models of Japanese engines are made to 1/30 scale for this very reason, because the prototypes are so small.


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