# Alder Gulch Shortline. Anybody been there or know anything about it?



## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Pretty Locomotive in the photos.

"Engine No.12 was one of four 30-inch gauge outside-frame consolidations (2-8-0's) built by Baldwin for the Ferrocarril Mexicano in 1910. These were class E-2 engines rated at 134 tons for use on the Zacatlan Branch."


Sounds like they're broke maybe. First announcement said the steam engine wouldn't be running in 2010, second announcement made it sound like nothing would be running this year. It's a beautiful outside frame Connie from their pictures, I'd love to see it run. 

http://aldergulch.com/html/photos.html


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Might be moving to Montana soon...gonna be a dental floss tycoon... 

Anyhow, the loco is the influence for the Bachmann On30 2-8-0 reportedly, depending on who you listen too. Indeed a nice loco.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 01 Jun 2011 08:12 PM 
Might be moving to Montana soon...gonna be a dental floss tycoon... 

Anyhow, the loco is the influence for the Bachmann On30 2-8-0 reportedly, depending on who you listen too. Indeed a nice loco. 
Long live Zappa


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I spent a whole day there two years ago. The engine was in it's engine house, and they let me climb up and look around. 

This engine looks IDENTICAL to my Bachmann Connie...and some have said it was the prototype after which the Connie was modeled. Don't know whether that's true or not...but to my eye, "identical" is the word. The engine looked brand new too...freshly shopped is the proper term. It was in very good shape externally. Alder Gulch Connie


The Alder Gulch Shortline ran between Virginia City, MT and Nevada City, MT. The RR barns and cars are in Nevada City. When I was there, the state would NOT allow them to run the Connie because of the fire danger. They were running a motorized track maintenance car with a "cover" over it to make it look like a steam engine...pretty hokey.


Even though I was pretty disappointed in not being able to ride behind the Connie...the trip was a good day trip for me. Virginia City was the center of the vigilantes movement back in the 1880s...so the history is RICH there. Virginia City looks like an old west town...with cars parked on the street. Their Masonic Building is really cool...so cool, I'm using it to model one of the buildings on my layout. The food was great...plain, good ole American food.

Nevada City looks like the dumping ground for all the old settler's homes in the area. It's really neat to walk through all these buildings and see how small they are. There must be 100 buildings there and LOTS of old stuff sitting around to just look at. When I say dumping grounds, what I mean, is that it's an area where buildings were moved in for historical purposes rather than being burnt or torn down outside of town.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

You can really see what Virginia City and Nevada City look like today by using Google. Just go this the following link (to Virginia City...Nevada City is a mile west)....then zoom in on the main drag...then drag the "street view" icon (the yellow man above the + and - bar on the left) onto that street...and then you can go up and down the main drag and see the buildings. If you've not done this...once in "street view"...click along the yellow line in the photo to move down the street (you'll see an oval where your mouse is)....and at any point, you can pan left and right with the mouse to see the buildings along the street.


Virginia City Map


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks Mike. I was struck by how my Connie looked like an exact reproduction of their engine as well. I saved about a dozen photos from the photo section where they have nice clear pictures of it from all angles. I'd easily believe Bachmann could've used it for protoyping if this engine was restored somewhere in this condition when they tooled the prototype. 

Those engines are so labor intensive that I've seen other scenic railroads have to let them set when they needed maintenance and run small diesels instead to pull excursions until they can rebuild their steam loco. I was wondering if that was what happened at this RR. 

Scott


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

When I was there, the staff told me the state wouldn't let them fire it up because of the severe drought. The land there is all ranch land as far as you can see...so a brush fire would move pretty good. Then there's the problem with the fact that Virginia City and Nevada City were also (almost) all wood cities...old wood too...120 year old wood. Those buildings would have burned fast. And, there's only two ways in and out...so getting any help in there would be limited.

But I was there in mid summer....when the tourist population should have been high. It wasn't We had no trouble moving around in the shops...or getting served in a restaurant...nor parking. Now, if the Alder Gulch was running, maybe more folks would have been around, but I'll bet the tourist count was under 100 folks.

My take...it's just too remote from civilization to make it go. We intentionally stopped by after staying in Yellowstone for a few days...and even then, Virginia City was out of the way. It's not on the way to anything.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

"The state won't let us run the loco because of fire risk" makes a plausible and certainly a convenient excuse not to run it but to go that far out of the way to be pulled along behind a speeder that's got a fake boiler taped to the front end isn't much of a draw. 

Steam excursions seem a tough way to make money unless you're in a really high traffic area. The three guys who originally bought Tweetsie's No. 12 took it to some place in Virginia and built a looping track back in the 50's I think I read. It was too far off the beaten path and after the locals had all ridden on it once and the railfans had all travelled there once...that was pretty much it. They then sold it to the folks in Boone NC area [arguably still in the middle of nowhere back then] but apparently it made more money there. Of course you also have to do silly things like have the train held up by bandits or Indians or paint the engine to blue with a smiley face on the front of it or some other tacky Dollywood sort of sideshow to really make money. Just riding on a steam train isn't enough apparently. 
Kind of like going to Cass you really have to want to go there to see the trains because there's not much else out there.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SRW on 02 Jun 2011 10:24 AM 
... It was too far off the beaten path and after the locals had all ridden on it once and the railfans had all travelled there once...that was pretty much it. ....[arguably still in the middle of nowhere back then] ....Kind of like going to Cass you really have to want to go there to see the trains because there's not much else out there. 
Hah...far off the beaten path....well, Virginia City, Montana is about as far off it as you can get IMHO. I guess in the center of South Dakota might be a bit more....


Locals...what locals? Population in a 60 mile radius is WELL under 1000 folks...maybe under 500 folks. 


Hah...middle of nowhere...yep, it's in the middle of nowhere...literally. You can drive over an hour from Virginia City in any direction before you reach another town...but it's a pretty drive. Just watch for deer and elk. When I drove around there, I thought about what it took to move herds of cattle to market. Damn big valleys...damn long drives. 


Yep...just like Cass...only way more driving involved to get there...except once you're there, you find out they cancelled the train...


Did learn one thing...great fishing is to be had there. Next time, I'll take a fly rod.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Alder Gulch have an appeal for $130,000 to inspect the boiler on #12. See http://www.virginiacitymt.com/Includes/train.pdf.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

That's an interesting article Pete. Thanks 

Says in there: 
"Goal: Our goal is to raise $300,000 for the maintenance and operation of the steam train and railroad. The first goal is to raise enough funds to complete the maintenance required, and seek an on- going maintenance reserve for the long term needs of 
the railroad and steam train." 

Ambitious goal in these economic times. Hope they're successful.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Our goal is to raise $300,000 for the maintenance and operation of the steam train and railroad 
Sounds way under-funded to me. I would be surprised if the boiler doesn't need some work, and that means they'll have to think about a $500,000 overhaul. 

P.S. Note that the local tourist operation, the Montana Heritage Commission, (a government agency - Montana Dept of Commerce,) is running the appeal. They've paid for glossy ads in NG&SL Gazette. Most private railroads would have saved the money and put it in the boiler fund.


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