# Aster UP aux water cars



## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

just received three; all arrived damaged. do not believe it was UPS fault, the box was in excellent shape. will post pictures later on. anyone else get theirs yet? i would definitely check them on arrival.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Assuming you contacted Hans. Just because the box is not damaged does not mean it was not mishandled. What was the damage?


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## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

here are some photos... the first two, the damaged end, the third shows the good ends for comparison...




























this shot shows another problem... missing brake piston rod.
i'd advise a thorough check on arrival.










probably the saddest part is that there was evidence that someone opened up the internal boxes after they left the factory and before they arrived in my hands. this damage would have been clearly visible through the thin internal wrap. why this was not caught in a QC check that was obviously conducted somewhere along the way and allowed to be delivered to a customer in this condition is another disturbing mystery.

i have only been in touch with my retailer.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

I found that one of mine had similar damage. I thought that I did it. I was able to take the part off and straighten it some what. There was no damage to boxes either.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Hey Guys, Her is my 2 cents on this for what it's worth. I'll start by saying my day job is designing boxes and packaging for a very large paper company, so I feel qualified to comment. I see two things that stick out to me. 1st everyone is saying the boxes looked fine and don't have signs of abuse. Second, is obvious damage, even though the packing looks good. To me this seems very much like poorly designed packaging. If a box is tilted dropped or sat on any surface other than the bottom, the packaging still needs to support it's product with out causing damage. The art to this is having the package and it's inner packaging "hold" the product in a spot for each package orientation that will still supply ample support and not damage other parts of the product that may be more fragile. From the photos it looks like they were relying on the rear "bumper" of the car to hold its entire weight in a side or "impact" scenario and obviously that part is not up to that abuse. It would have been better if part of the packaging went in and was against the tank end of the car as this is probably the strongest part. Then, area should have been left for the bumper to float so that nothing was ever to touch it. This is all hard to verify with certainty as I have no ides what the box looks like, but I have a feeling I'm not far off. It's too bad they do look like great models. As for a claim against the shipper if the outer carton is free from damage, FORGET about it. Totally the fault of the packaging. Good luck with em! Lets see those videos now....


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy
I had a failing run yesterday with my Challenger. I had maybe one round trip on Track at Zube. Little too much wind and had problems with my Kadee couplers.
I have some video of cars and will try to upload it.
I was able to remove two screws that hold the bumper in place and straighten the tabs that hold it in place. Needs a little more adjustment though.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Nuts-n-bolts ..Randy... I have to agree with your conclusions about internal package design. This is a weak area for our hobby, esp. as locos and cars increase in both size and weight! 
I believe this is the biggest issue with USA Trains new Auto rack cars. A lack of lateral, end support for a heavy car. 

Just wish we could somehow get this across to the manufactures.. 

Your right on! 

....Dirk


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 20 Oct 2013 10:55 AM 
Nuts-n-bolts ..Randy... I have to agree with your conclusions about internal package design. This is a weak area for our hobby, esp. as locos and cars increase in both size and weight! 

Just wish we could somehow get this across to the manufactures.. 

Your right on! 

....Dirk 

When I received my new Accucraft C19 back in early 2008, I could not believe how well that loco was packaged! The engine itself was packaged in a steel case mounted on a 1/2" hardwood board. The whole steel case was wrapped in styrofoam and wood. The tender was in a separate box surrounded by molded styrofoam. Absolutely NO damage. It's hard for me to believe that Aster (supposed top of the line) would be packaged this badly.







No excuse for this,IMHO.


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## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 20 Oct 2013 06:50 AM 
.... This is all hard to verify with certainty as I have no ides what the box looks like, but I have a feeling I'm not far off. It's too bad they do look like great models. As for a claim against the shipper if the outer carton is free from damage, FORGET about it. Totally the fault of the packaging. Good luck with em! Lets see those videos now.... 
with receiving three cars the box was well oversize, but here is my theory... the cars were individually in boxes with room for surrounding soft foam. i do agree that if some solid foam could have been molded to the front and rear of the car, this might have solved any damage problems of the coupler hitting a hard surface. but to add to the transmitted shock, the material surrounding the internal boxes was tightly packed hard foam boards. this box could have easily withstood a few hundred lbs sitting on it, but one good drop and the couplers would have definitely ignored the ~1" of soft foam and come in contact with internal box surface backed by the hard foam core. when i return these i believe it will be best to substitute packing peanuts for the hard foam. just my thoughts. it is a shame to skimp on such a small increase in cost that a good packing design would have saved them.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Seems like you guys agree with what I was saying, and yes it's very sad, especially on models of this caliber, when they don't spend the proper energy on protecting what they sell.

Gibs, Sorry to hear you had a though time of it at Zube. I'm sure you will get it sorted out shortly and I'll keep my eyes pealed for your videos.









Overlandflyer, Careful with peanuts too. Once the item starts to shift towards any side and the nuts compress the can the wipe out small detail like those brake pistons or handrails. You just cant control where peanuts migrate too.







I would use their package for reshipment as you know it protects 95% of things and just shove a block of foam in the weak spot. Wedge it in between the end of the tank and the wall of the box. make sure to relieve the foam where the might be a ladder or other detail so the foam wont touch it while it's still firmly held up against the wall of the tank/car. The foam should hold the coupler from hitting the end of the package. I think I might take my chances bending things back my self, as Gibs did, rather than risk further shipping damage.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By overlandflyer on 19 Oct 2013 12:59 PM 
here are some photos... the first two, the damaged end, the third shows the good ends for comparison...




























this shot shows another problem... missing brake piston rod.
i'd advise a thorough check on arrival.










probably the saddest part is that there was evidence that someone opened up the internal boxes after they left the factory and before they arrived in my hands. this damage would have been clearly visible through the thin internal wrap. why this was not caught in a QC check that was obviously conducted somewhere along the way and allowed to be delivered to a customer in this condition is another disturbing mystery.

i have only been in touch with my retailer.

rANDY
dID YOU CHECK TO SEE IF YOU CAN STRAIGHTEN THE TABS THAT HOLD BUMPER IN PLACE. The metal is very plyable. Maybe Hans then can get replacement parts for those too severly damadged. Pardon the caps I am not yelling.
Thankful that mine were no too badly damadged.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy
Thanks for the encouragement. I have not had any trouble with the Challenger except for first time firing ,when I could not figure out proper setting for fuel output.
It was just too windy to keep flame under control for any period of time.
I have a short video uploading of the tenders behind the Challenger and in front of the heavyweights. I think it looks pretty good.
Art Gibson

http://youtu.be/Oj6BXeGLl-U


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

http://youtu.be/s4GlMfFqTJk 
This was my attempt at pulling 20 heavyweights. Had trouble keeping cars connected but will find away.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Art, whose couplers are coming apart, Aristo, Kadee, or some other brand? Chuck


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 21 Oct 2013 08:20 AM 
Art, whose couplers are coming apart, Aristo, Kadee, or some other brand? Chuck 
ChuckThey are the Kadee's. What I am told is that with the weight of that many cars, and they slight undulation of the track, is what is causing the separation. I am going to add the large paper clip deal on the cars that give me the most problems. I have used the coupler gadget for sizing and the cars seem to be aligned properly, but as said earlier, the weight and undulation.
I am stubborn and determined to get it done.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Art:


I assume you are using their gauge 1 as they are more susceptible to uneven track. I have a mixture of #1s and "G" Kadees on my heavyweights.

Chuck


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

My experience with Kadee #1 couplers has been that they are just the right size for 1:32 models; but, they are small enough that even minor track irregularities will displace them enough vertically that they come undone. I typically just hold my nose and substitute their "G" couplers which are bomb proof.


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## bob80park (Jan 2, 2008)

Just got off the phone with my local Aster dealer. Four out of four tenders arrived damaged. Two were somewhat minor and the other two were bent down at least 45 degrees as in the above photos.He spoke with Hans today about getting the problem resolved and Hans's reply was "if thse guys can build locomotives they can bend the tabs back themselves on the tenders". It's had to believe that the importer and /or ASTER is not willing to stand behind their product. Someone needs to be held accountable for quality control and
inspection of the products before they are shipped to the end user. Saying that the end user is responsible for repairing the problem is totally ludicrous and assinine.
It's a shame that you spend hard earned money on a expensive item and the importer refuses to acknowledge that there is a serious problem that need to be addressed.

Bob M


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bob80park on 21 Oct 2013 02:21 PM 
Just got off the phone with my local Aster dealer. Four out of four tenders arrived damaged. Two were somewhat minor and the other two were bent down at least 45 degrees as in the above photos.He spoke with Hans today about getting the problem resolved and Hans's reply was "if thse guys can build locomotives they can bend the tabs back themselves on the tenders". It's had to believe that the importer and /or ASTER is not willing to stand behind their product. Someone needs to be held accountable for quality control and
inspection of the products before they are shipped to the end user. Saying that the end user is responsible for repairing the problem is totally ludicrous and assinine.
It's a shame that you spend hard earned money on a expensive item and the importer refuses to acknowledge that there is a serious problem that need to be addressed.

Bob M 

I do not think that Hans would not accept the damage. I believe that he had not seen thedamage done because the cartons containing the tenders were not opened when received here in U.S.
I was able to correct mine very easily and I am not a great engineer. If bending the tabs does not correct the issue, I would bet that Hans would do evry thing he could do to correct the situation.
I know we all have some bad experiences in life and most of them can be handled without loosing our cool.
BTW Hans can have a different sense of humor if you get my drift.


P.S I just got an email from Hans and he ask me if would explain what I did to correct the problem with the "BUMPER". All I did was to turn the tender on its side and remove the two screws that hold the bumper in place. Gently bend the tabs back to original configuration. Hans said that if doing so the tabs were to break, he is checking with Aster Japan to get replace parts for the bumpers. He has no \replacement tenders in that all he ordered was those that were presold.
I had two tenders come in and one was damaged and as far as can tell right now. I cannot see any damaged since I straightened the tabs.
Good luck and give Hans a break. Who else do you know that has invested Probably millions of dollars in our hobby to provide us with ,what could be the best live steam around and still has inventory
that has not been sold.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bob80park on 21 Oct 2013 02:21 PM 
Just got off the phone with my local Aster dealer. Four out of four tenders arrived damaged. Two were somewhat minor and the other two were bent down at least 45 degrees as in the above photos.He spoke with Hans today about getting the problem resolved and Hans's reply was "if thse guys can build locomotives they can bend the tabs back themselves on the tenders". It's had to believe that the importer and /or ASTER is not willing to stand behind their product. Someone needs to be held accountable for quality control and
inspection of the products before they are shipped to the end user. Saying that the end user is responsible for repairing the problem is totally ludicrous and assinine.
It's a shame that you spend hard earned money on a expensive item and the importer refuses to acknowledge that there is a serious problem that need to be addressed.

Bob M 

Bob
I believe that a situation will be offered. In the history of dealing with Hans and Aster I have yet to find a problem left in the customer hands without any support, parts or replacements. Unfair to characterized Hans or Aster as not standing behind their product.


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## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

if you look at the pictures of my tenders, i do not believe a simple bend with clear up all the damage. i am in no hurry to get these into use, but i doubt if i will volunteer the hours to correct this problem. i will definitely ship them differently than received, but back they will go to get repaired or fitted with replacement parts.


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## bob80park (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck, Not Unfair! What else can you think when your told fix it yourself?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

My black/unlettered version has "minor" damage compared to the ones in the photos. Hans did tell me to try fixing it myself... and it was a simple fix for MY PARTICULAR CASE. 

IMHO, Aster JAPAN did an extremely poor job of packaging and packing on this model. I am sure Hans was not willing to unpack, inspect, and repack every tender. AND, he should not be expected to. 

This is clearly a larger problem than Hans imagined. I am sure he will get lots of "push back" from Aster in Japan if he tries to get them repaired at their expense. This is NOT the same Aster we know from 25 years ago. 

I am not making excuses for, or defending Hans. Just be aware that he is going to have to push very hard to make things right. 

Like others, I am extremely disappointed in the willingness of Aster to cut corners and risk significant damage to their product [and reputation]. I think Hans feels the same way.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob and all

I can only related to my interactions as to making things right via Aster. Recently had a part that unacceptable it was replaced by Aster of Japan. Seems that replacement will be required if it is not a minor fix of alignment. We await our tender arrival. As we all know in shipping items the combination of UPS/USPS processing and poor packing (allowing movement) will always results in damage. If the item is not acceptable and under the guidance of Aster product, "if larger and expensive parts, must be returned....for replacement. Therefore I would assume that applies here with this situation.
Finally, my experience with the Challenger tells me that Aster does and will stand by its product. Poor packing does not speak for the quality of the product only QC in its release. One cannot argue that the Challenger and the Auxiliary tender are other than quality products for the money. As per shipping process seems that the Challenger RTR and built up got here without problems (at least no outcry for poor packing).


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

The customer received damaged items, asked for repairs and was told to fix it himself. How has this now become the customer being unfair? 

He has a legitimate complaint, any customer would. 

I have customers, I do not tell them to fix my mistakes. 

Steve


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## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 21 Oct 2013 04:07 PM 
.... I am sure Hans was not willing to unpack, inspect, and repack every tender. AND, he should not be expected to. ... 









like i mentioned, someone along the way opened up the inner boxes. the factory put some instructions right on the top of the foam liner. i use a very light touch with a razor blade when i open up boxes to avoid just what is shown here. all three inner boxes showed this type of scoring of the instruction sheet (the others not ripped as this one was) and it wasn't me. although there was a light foam and plastic final wrap around the tender that appeared to be untouched, the damage was clearly visible through those layers.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

I received mine last week and was just as "bad" as the photos. Took all of 3 minutes to remedy similar to Arts explanation. I understand if you're not willing to try and fix it yourself, but would probably find someone in the local vicinity willing to give it a try rather than taking the risk and shipping them again. Just food for thought!


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## pogsteam (May 23, 2013)

Don't think its right that people who have paid a lo of money for a product should be asked to fix it. If it were a TV or a microwave you wouldn't! (and they are cheaper!) 
Having said that one of my tenders was perfect, but the other had bent handrails and the removable "roof" was also bent. No big deal and wouldn't have thought to mention it 
til I saw this. 
But there is obviously an issue. When I received my Challenger kit the tender ladders looked like they had been sat on by a sumo wrestler. They were replaced in time, 
along with a few missing parts. This from Aster UK, who were very helpful and maybe a little frustrated by Aster Japan's tardiness. 
Overall though, I am not sure the tenders have the same feeling of overall quality, design and detail as the locos... especially considering the price (same in UK as US). I've thrown that out there , so feel free to shoot me down.


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## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

the response from Hans Huwyler, Aster representative...




Gentlemen 

I am very sorry for the unfortunate situation you encountered with the purchase of the 3 auxiliary tank cars.

I have no replacement tank cars in inventory (sold out). Aster Japan reports they currently have no replacement coupler beams which will have to be manufactured first. Therefore I will refund your money for the 3 tank cars including shipping cost. AH USA LLC will issue a refund check to your Aster dealer/service provider Bob Moser as soon as the cars have been returned. Your dealer will have to issue a refund check to you since you purchased the goods from him. Please return the cars in the original packing the way you received them via UPS grnd.

I honestly don't understand why you do not feel qualified to straighten the bent tabs on the buffer beam which would be a very easy and painless fix. Two screws have to be removed to disengage each coupler beam to straighten the tabs. This fix is accomplished in five minutes. After all you have the qualifications to assemble a complex Aster Challenger locomotive kit ?
Another option would be to wait until replacement buffer beams become available from Aster Japan. These will be sent to you at no cost as warranty replacements for the returned defective parts. However at the moment I do not know how long it will take until these parts are supplied from Japan.


Hans Huwyler
AH USA LLC

=============

wow... fix it yourself?
nice customer service.

i declined the offer.
i will wait for replacement parts and at that time send the tenders back for repair.
i have no desire to fix a factory built item for Aster.


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## k5pat (Jan 18, 2008)

Posted By overlandflyer on 22 Oct 2013 05:21 PM 

=============

wow... fix it yourself?
nice customer service.

i declined the offer.
i will wait for replacement parts and at that time send the tenders back for repair.
i have no desire to fix a factory built item for Aster.


_*So you're going to risk sending delicate assemblies through the UPS/USPS system Again??? TWICE??? 
*_
_* I would try to fix them myself first with the factory replacement parts. Your choice.....*_


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

After being in this hobby for over thirty years, I have received damaged but easily reparable equipment. Calling the dealer never worked. Their answer was to contact the manufacturer and return it to them. It is easier to fix it than to fight it. Chuck


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

It is interesting to me that you and your dealer think that putting out a high pitched whine on MLS will fix ANYTHING AT ALL in regard to Aster. I say that because your dealer knows full well that Hans has almost no leverage with Aster Japan to get things fixed. The only possible motivation is to make Aster USA look like the bad, unresponsive importer who refuses to wave his magic wand and sprinkle fairy dust on your water cars. 

The models were produced under contact in KOREA, not by Aster in JAPAN. They are clearly not the same quality as other Aster models I have... going all the way back to the original SR Schools class 4-4-0. I am not convinced that anyone from Aster Japan even saw the cars destined for North America except to put a new shipping and customs document pack on the pallet in Yokohama. 

I suggest that if you and the dealer are not satisfied with Aster USA, you contact Fuji directly at Aster Japan and demand that they take immediate corrective action. 

BTW, I have NEVER seen an Aster Factory built locomotive that ran properly straight out of the box. Every one needed adjustments, one needed major work. 

It is admirable that you are standing on principle, but I also think you are flogging a very dead horse, and Bob Moser knows it too. 

Regards


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Overlandflyer, 

I think your "heart's in the right place," but these are virtually bespoke products made by hand to your order. Heck, you can probably fix them faster than packing them back up. All I'd like to see is some assurance that any damage I did in attempting a repair would not then be used as a basis for declining to honor a warranty. 

I received one LGB beer wagon smashed in pieces, but thankfully it all snapped right back together in just a few minutes. 

Just a thought regarding the opened packaging ... perhaps it was some kind of inspection, like US Customs didn't like the paperwork or picked it at random? 

Not trained customer service at Aster - but I like the "fix it yourself" snark a lot better than the rehearsed platitudes and recited corporate junk I hear most of the time!


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## Hiawatha Gent (May 6, 2011)

I just received mine. Same problem. Of concern is the fact that the screws holding the ladder and hand rail to the bracket are probably stripped as well so it isn't a matter of straightening out the walk bracket. It looks like the part was painted that way as there is no paint chip from the bend.

Is there supposed to be a chain connecting the pin on the coupler to the bar?

Thanks for the heads up. It appears to be a general problem. 

Dennis McLain


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## jobusch (Feb 29, 2008)

If you expect everything you receive from a shipper to arrive in pristine shape then don't purchase stuff that has to be shipped ... 

You should see the number UPS did on my inch scale locomotive kit ... and I know who did it because I watched the driver drop the (couple hundred pound) crate out of the truck while I was getting my lift table down to the street to properly handle the unloading. 

If you wanted a hobby where tweaking is not required, you have this isn't it. 

What a bunch of whiney b.......s .... and to think Dr. Rivit wonders why I don't follow MLS more closely.


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## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

the only way things get damaged in normal shipping is when the sender does a horrible job of packing it. i have gotten hundreds of delicate items shipped to me and only a handful have arrived damaged and every one of those was not packed well enough to avoid damage. anyone claiming you cannot ship fragile items with any shipper does not know what they are talking about or is speaking from little experience.

i actually gave Aster my other option.
a 30% refund for the purchase of damaged merchandise.
i've yet to hear back.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Overlandflyer, yes, you received damaged merchandise, and that is regrettable and is beyond Hans' control. He has offered to refund your money and you have declined that. But to offer to keep the damaged merchandise after the payment of a 30% fee just makes you look like you are trying to financially benefit from this unfortunate situation. And your railing about it on this forum is just excessive and non-productive. We need to move on to having fun with trains and leave this sad saga behind. 

Ross Schlabach


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## jwalls110 (Dec 12, 2012)

All I am hearing are multiple people complaining about a valid issue and others making excuses for Aster. And some blaming the people that received the badly packaged items as somehow at fault for not fixing it their selves. 

Kinda like buying a new car and finding issues with it and the dealer telling you to fix it your self. 

Overlandflyer as far as I can see you have a valid complaint. THEY need to fix it or make it financially attractive to you to fix it yourself. 

Glad I can't afford this stuff.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jwalls110 on 23 Oct 2013 01:23 PM 
All I am hearing are multiple people complaining about a valid issue and others making excuses for Aster. And some blaming the people that received the badly packaged items as somehow at fault for not fixing it their selves. 

Kinda like buying a new car and finding issues with it and the dealer telling you to fix it your self. 

Overlandflyer as far as I can see you have a valid complaint. THEY need to fix it or make it financially attractive to you to fix it yourself. 

Glad I can't afford this stuff. As an outsider listening to this sad saga (never purchased a "high-end" Aster model), I have to agree with Jeff in his quote above and others here siding with the OP. The most I have ever paid for a model was from Accucraft......a C19 sparkie. Amounted to a couple of thousand dollars. After I received the engine, I happened to break a small water spigot off on the tender. I went to Cliff from Accucraft (this was during the BTS at Ontario, CA in 2008). Cliff didn't tell me to fix it myself! He took me over to meet George Konrad MMR and introduced me to George and asked him to repair the tender for me. That's exactly what George did and it looked better than new. That's how I would expect Aster to handle this situation! With an attitude such as Aster has with this problem, I surely don't know where Aster earns the so-called "Aster Snobbery".

My OTHER hobby is 1.5" live steam locomotives. I have one. AND the rolling stock. The prices I have paid for these items are far more than ANY Aster model and no snobbery involved. Bottom line for me is that when I have a few bucks for a smaller steam locomotive, I will think twice before investing in an Aster. Their attitude is beyond the pale.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

*My gosh..........Aster USA offered to give you your money back. What else do you expect them to do ? Hans is not Santa Clause or the Tooth Fairy.*


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## pogsteam (May 23, 2013)

I think a lot are missing the very valid remarks of Dr Rivet... 
If it is correct that the tenders were built in korea then it explains a lot. Don't know about you but I thought mine would be made by Aster japan, and the photos on their website 
inferred that. If you lift one up and look at the end, holes are visible. The detailing is far from what should be expected, verging on the amateurish in parts. 
What I don't understand is the irrational defence of Aster and Hans (I don't really know his part, but as agent he has responsibility for the product he sells) 

But to sum it up I am happy to have the tenders, but a little saddened by the fact that they could have been better.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

It is unfortunate that many of you want to deal in the "theoretically perfect" universe instead of putting this problem in the specific context of small scale live steam models manufactured by any number of builders. This is NOT stuff being sold in the thousands at Home Depot, Lowe's and Wal-Mart. It is completely unrealistic to expect any of these folks to have a "surplus inventory" of "factory built" models sitting on the shelf so that if one is damaged in shipment, it can be immediately replaced. It does not matter who the builder is... if the production is sold out, they cannot conjure another out of thin air. POGSTEAM... it is NOT a microwave or a TV, that analogy is totally unrealistic. Also, look at the bottom of YOUR tender. The serial number plate says KOREA on it. It is not speculation, it is fact. And Aster probably did not use a "known name" builder like FM Models, or there would be a builders plate on it. 

I am not defending Hans... I am simply pointing out FACTS as they are. IF there are NO parts at Aster Japan, he cannot fix it either. Hans's point to Bob M, me, and everyone else is simple. If you can fix it as quickly and easily as he can [and Pat Darby said this already], WHY RISK the possibility of further damage shipping it across the country TWICE. It was not an attempt to avoid responsibility, it was a solution that almost every live steamer has been given at some time by a supplier. Hans might have said something different if he did not believe the customer could rectify the problem. 

GARY A - You cite Accucraft as a sterling example of "customer service". In general, if an experienced live steamer calls Cliff and says there are broken or missing parts, his first question is..."If I have the parts and send them to you, can YOU fix the engine?" If they say yes, he sends the parts. If they say no, then they discuss other options. If Cliff has no engine in the warehouse to steal parts off of... you are done PERIOD. BTW, Accucraft does not produce any spare parts for its live steamers. If they are sold out, and Cliff does not have parts from a "scrapped" engine... you are in the same place as those who want new parts for the aux water cars. BTW, you were at a show and George was willing to fix it for Cliff...note that Accucraft did not fix it. If these water cars had been at Diamondhead or some other place where Hans was present, he would have fixed them. He has repaired engines for people at my meets and at Cabin Fever for no cost. 

In the world of electric locomotives, if an Aristo or USA Trains diesel ends up with a fried [or just DOA] electronic circuit board, MOST do not send the engine back to the manufacturer[importer], they get an RMA, and exchange the defective board. Aristo and USAT seem to prefer that the customer do as much as they can to reduce both shipping cost and risk of damage. 

One final observation... since these water cars were purchased through a dealer... it is actually the dealer's responsibility to be representing the customer to Aster USA. If the customer is being asked to deal directly with the importer, then he has abrogated his responsibility as the Aster representative to the end user and should refund ALL his profit from this transaction to the customer, since he has provided nothing of value in the transaction. Maybe that is where a portion of the 30% refund that was asked for should come from. 

I wonder if the OP actually is building a Challenger kit... if so, the poor fit and finish of the entire tender underframe must be making him insane, or he is lining up lawyers to discus QC issues with Aster Japan.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

wonder who "overlandflyer" is?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jeff 

Not really relevant.... if he was willing to stand behind his convictions with his face instead of a computer screen, he would have signed his post. Maybe this is too close to 'fill in the blank" and Dwight will decide this thread has served its purpose and run its course... and should die a frightful death at the hands of a moderator. HINT!


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

I though the rule was, no excuses, no exceptions, no forgiveness. The brand is 110% responsible for the product (Aster, Accucraft, etc.); design, manufacture, materials, quality control, delivery, and service and support. The manufacturer (in house or contract), point of manufacture, shipper, etc., was irrelevant to the customer expectation of a quality product. IT's been beaten into our heads in my experience since I was captured and assimilated into the collective in 1996. 

Has there been a change?


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 23 Oct 2013 04:56 PM 


You cite Accucraft as a sterling example of "customer service". In general, if an experienced live steamer calls Cliff and says there are broken or missing parts, his first question is..."If I have the parts and send them to you, can YOU fix the engine?" If they say yes, he sends the parts. If they say no, then they discuss other options. If Cliff has no engine in the warehouse to steal parts off of... you are done PERIOD. BTW, Accucraft does not produce any spare parts for its live steamers. If they are sold out, and Cliff does not have parts from a "scrapped" engine... you are in the same place as those who want new parts for the aux water cars. BTW, you were at a show and George was willing to fix it for Cliff...note that Accucraft did not fix it. If these water cars had been at Diamondhead or some other place where Hans was present, he would have fixed them. He has repaired engines for people at my meets and at Cabin Fever for no cost. 





Rewrite:


Jim: You cite Aster as a sterling example of "customer service".


In general, if an experienced live steamer calls Hans and says there are broken or missing parts, his first question is..."If I have the parts and send them to you, can YOU fix the engine?" If they say yes, he sends the parts. If they say no, then they discuss other options. If Hans/Aster have no parts and no engines in the warehouse to steal parts off of... you are done PERIOD. BTW, Aster does not have every spare part for every live steamer they have ever made, Aster runs out of parts. Aster periodically announces they will no longer stock spare parts for older locos. If Aster is sold out, and Hans or Aster does not have parts from a "scrapped" engine... you are in the same place as those who want new parts for the UP spare water tender. BTW, if you were at a show and Ryan was willing to fix it for Hans ...note that Aster did not fix it. If your broken or damaged Accucraft brass caboose had been at Diamondhead or some other place where Cliff was present, he would have fixed it. Cliff has repaired or had someone like George or Dave Hottmann repair engines or other items for people at Diamondhead, National Summer Steamup, other shows or private steamup get-to-gethers for no cost.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

You are correct


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Posted By overlandflyer on 23 Oct 2013 01:03 PM 
i actually gave Aster my other option.
a 30% refund for the purchase of damaged merchandise.
i've yet to hear back. 


I'm not surprised you haven't heard back. To say that a $1350 refund would make your pretty simple (from photo evidence) problem go away perhaps reaveals more than anything, your undue avarice. I cannot understand why you haven't just given the three tenders back to Bob Moser who I'm sure could repair the damage in three shakes of a lambs tail.......I say this as an Aster Dealer myself of 29 year's standing. It strikes me that once again in this modern society, common sense is found to be in extremely short supply as parties involved become totally intransigent rather than using their heads and doing the smart thing which is to follow Hans' advice. If Hans' advice on the 'fix' doesn't work THEN go to Plan B and wait for the replacement parts which you replace by removing the two screws........as Pat and Jim say, why risk more damage, twice? 
David M-K
Ottawa


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

""GARY A - You cite Accucraft as a sterling example of "customer service". In general, if an experienced live steamer calls Cliff and says there are broken or missing parts, his first question is..."If I have the parts and send them to you, can YOU fix the engine?" If they say yes, he sends the parts. If they say no, then they discuss other options. If Cliff has no engine in the warehouse to steal parts off of... you are done PERIOD. BTW, Accucraft does not produce any spare parts for its live steamers. If they are sold out, and Cliff does not have parts from a "scrapped" engine... you are in the same place as those who want new parts for the aux water cars. BTW, you were at a show and George was willing to fix it for Cliff...note that Accucraft did not fix it. If these water cars had been at Diamondhead or some other place where Hans was present, he would have fixed them. He has repaired engines for people at my meets and at Cabin Fever for no cost."" 
Jim, I never stated that Accucraft and what Cliff did for me at BTS in 2008 was sterling. I said I would EXPECT it of Accucraft and any other high-end manufacturer to do. BTW, Cliff IS Accucraft because he represents them in the company and at the show! Therefore Accucraft or their representative (Cliff) DID FIX my engine!









Let me explain MY incident a little more. I broke the spigot off my tender by MY clumbsy handing of the tender while dis-connecting the electric plug from the engine. It was MY fault. BUT, because I was new to Accucraft and wasn't quite sure if I could even get this repaired, I called Cliff at Accucraft before he came down for the show. On the phone, Cliff explained there were no parts available at that time, but that he would find me someone who "might" have a part and get it fixed. I met Cliff at the booth a week later and he hauled my butt over to the Del Oro group, where he introduced me to George Konrad. Cliff then left the conversation and I continued to talk to George. He told me he had the parts and would return the tender as good as new in a week or so. That is exactly what happened. I didn't get a remark from Cliff saying "you screwed up your tender with rough handling and you need to repair it with what you can find laying around your "bash stock". I WAS a newbie" at owning a brass locomotive that cost a couple of thousand dollars, but these two guys bailed my a** out!







That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.









What I find unusual in the above conversation is how defensive Aster folks can be about Aster products, even when they don't work out of the box OR expensive items of three water tank cars are shipped with such lousy packing that the damage to these cars is UNIVERSAL to all who received them. I'm not blaming the dealers for this at all and they should not have to be involved with the refunds.....Aster SHOULD, the company and manufacturer! Just a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about Aristo going under....no replacement parts or service. Wow! What's the difference in talking about the loyal fans of Aristo products OR the equally loyal fans of Aster products? OR Accucraft for that matter? In my first post on this thread, I remarked about how well my locomotive was packaged from its trip from China. Nothing was bent or broken on my engine on its arrival in the US at Jonathan's EMW. Many of us on MLS received those C19's from Accucraft in that same time period. All of us had NO damage.

Hope this explains where I'm coming from here. No reason for the Aster folks to become so sensitive and defensive of their product OR the few dealers that are in this country. In my opinion, it takes a special person to buy a locomotive for $5000 to who knows what.....$25,000+ to take on the "repair" of such a locomotive. I mentioned my 1.5" steamer....I built the engine myself, so anything broken or bent OR destroyed, I could fix myself. But there is a BIG difference in my live steamer weighing 500+ pounds and not fragile to a small intricate model with fragile details weighing less than fifty pounds. My story DONE.


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## pogsteam (May 23, 2013)

Why should someone ask the moderator to shut down this thread (and then continue to post in it)? 
This thread has attracted more comment and lively debate than many, and that's what a forum is for. I think it's highly entertaining, as well as 
informative, especially about people's attitudes, prejudices , likes and dislikes. 
Threads die a death naturally... on any forum. 
Did think to look underneath at number and saw "made in Korea"... made my day ... 54/150 and 56/150.... is that 150 all up or 150 of each? 

Mike Mcleod 

Thought Id better sign it


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Mike 

Do you have Up Armor yellow or black unlettered? My black one is Ser #149/150. IF yours are lettered UP, then 150 is the total production.


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## pogsteam (May 23, 2013)

Think you are right... mine are one each of the Armour yellow... pretty sure there only a few of your black unlettered so 150 it is


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pogsteam on 24 Oct 2013 12:34 PM 
Think you are right... mine are one each of the Armour yellow... pretty sure there only a few of your black unlettered so 150 it is 

I think I was told that there were 55 that were shipped in U.S. and the other went to the U.K. and Europe. I am going to try to find out. Not that it makes any difference but I am curious.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, our black version arrived. The bumper ( the locomotive end) was tilted slightly. No need to unscrew just push down on the coupler box to straight out the "L" brackets. Here is our thoughts....it was not shipping damage. The tender was packed in such a way as to prevent movement. In doing so the probably is that the damage occurred in placement into the box. More than likely the tender was place in the box with one section of black foam in place. Then the second piece of black foam was pushed down the inside of the box end and in doing so bent the beam (harder the push the more damage done). 

As to quality and Aster standard of production....we are satisfied with our purchase. Based on the history of Aster non-locomotive productions this offering meets if not succeeds the historical runs of coaches, cars, etc.

Finally, an easy fix is to put a block between the coupler box and the underside of the floor. This will prevent the beam/bumper from folding upon contact. There are several ways to mount a block and prevent movement that would bend the beam. When we do it we will post photos of our suggestion.


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## KD Rail (Feb 27, 2011)

Wow... touchy bunch.

This post returns us to a friendlier time







concerning Art's comments from the first page and his 20 car consist uncoupling at Zube last week.

Art, as always I enjoy seeing you each week at the mall layout and was delighted to see your tenders. They are indeed beauties. Any time that is convenient for you, feel free to bring a couple of your 20 cars and the tenders (including the Challengers) over to my place and we can explore options for the couplers. Like others mentioned, if you have Kadee 1 gauge couplers we should look at putting Kadee G gauge on them as they are indeed bullet proof. I noticed that the couplers on the tenders are non operative and look like they are 1 gauge, so you might want to consider upgrading those as well for the sake of consistency. Given some of the 'peaks and valleys' at Zube, I think body mounted G gauge is the only way to go.

I have been exploring a method to convert a Kadee 830 into a shelf coupler and that could certainly have some appeal in this instance. Challenges and experimentation are the fuels that peak my interest and curiosity...

Keith Stratton - CCO (Chief Custodial Officer)
KD Rail, a Division of Creakin' & Leakin' Garden Railway Adventures

"I used to be imprecise, now I'm just out of tolerance"


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By KD Rail on 27 Oct 2013 04:20 PM 
Wow... touchy bunch.

This post returns us to a friendlier time







concerning Art's comments from the first page and his 20 car consist uncoupling at Zube last week.

Art, as always I enjoy seeing you each week at the mall layout and was delighted to see your tenders. They are indeed beauties. Any time that is convenient for you, feel free to bring a couple of your 20 cars and the tenders (including the Challengers) over to my place and we can explore options for the couplers. Like others mentioned, if you have Kadee 1 gauge couplers we should look at putting Kadee G gauge on them as they are indeed bullet proof. I noticed that the couplers on the tenders are non operative and look like they are 1 gauge, so you might want to consider upgrading those as well for the sake of consistency. Given some of the 'peaks and valleys' at Zube, I think body mounted G gauge is the only way to go.

I have been exploring a method to convert a Kadee 830 into a shelf coupler and that could certainly have some appeal in this instance. Challenges and experimentation are the fuels that peak my interest and curiosity...

Keith Stratton - CCO (Chief Custodial Officer)
KD Rail, a Division of Creakin' & Leakin' Garden Railway Adventures

"I used to be imprecise, now I'm just out of tolerance"

Keith,
I may just take you up on that after you get you layout the way you want it.
Are you saying we can convert the couplers I have now tobody mounted couplers.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So what is KD Rail 'land' doing to HIS layout now????? 

Curious minds... ha!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## KD Rail (Feb 27, 2011)

Art,

Probably not, but once I get a chance to look into what you currently have, and then do some homework, I'm sure between us we can come up with something that should improve your runability (is that even a word?)... 

Keith


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

... mmmm. perchance -- 

is it... 

PHASE II,.... 

on the KD Rail.... 

D


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Art, Why not fix the "problem" which you believe is the track? Or do you also have this problem at Steve's also?


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## KD Rail (Feb 27, 2011)

Dirk,

Getting the layout ready for an open house as part of the San Jacinto Model railroad Club - Layout Tour for 2013. I'm not a member of the San Jac club, but being a member of the HAGG (Houston Area G Gaugers), we always get invited to participate.

Installed a crossover between the two loops, currently replacing all of the rubber edging with mini-paving bricks, adding another yard in the back corner of my yard, re-bending a couple of curves, etc. etc. etc. All that and a myriad of other 'details' to get things back in shape after a hot, hot, hot summer of neglect!

But getting back to Art, let me tell ya, that rascal has got a couple of years on me, and about 10 times the energy! One thing I love about this hobby is that you meet some great people along the way!!!

I'll try to get out your way in the spring...

Keith 
KD Rail


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 27 Oct 2013 06:30 PM 
Art, Why not fix the "problem" which you believe is the track? Or do you also have this problem at Steve's also? 
Jeff
Will find out this Weds at Steve's. I plan on running the Challenger with the cars that I have. Track at Zube would be impossible to correct. It does not give the slower engines any problems and when I get the coupler deal settled I believe all will be well.
Keith I do have body mounted couplers. Just got mu "G" scale from Kadee to check height and stuff of the couplers.

Jeff
Also the guys at Zube run mostly Narrow Gauge stuff and have no problems. My patience has not completely been shattered.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By KD Rail on 27 Oct 2013 06:33 PM 
But getting back to Art, let me tell ya, that rascal has got a couple of years on me, and about 10 times the energy! One thing I love about this hobby is that you meet some great people along the way!!!




Yes, I believe that Art has found that elusive "Fountain of Youth". I have said it before, nobody....and I mean *nobody has more fun in this hobby then Art.* He is more fun to watch then the engines themselves.


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 27 Oct 2013 06:30 PM 
Art, Why not fix the "problem" which you believe is the track? Or do you also have this problem at Steve's also? Jeff, I agree 100% with you. I have a 350' long garden track in the harsh climate of Ontario and have been running my 1:32 scale homebuilt 80' streamliners with little problem for well over 20 years, they are equipped with Kadee 820s. Time spent on levelling track not to have sudden 'humps' is time never wasted, decent running starts with a decent base on which to run and using G scale couplers is a really coarse and inelegant solution to a basic inadequacy of initial track design and construction, attacking the cause rather than the result is the way to go.
By the way this has NOTHING to do with UP water cars.......who hijacked the thread? 
David M-K
Ottawa


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GaugeOneLines on 28 Oct 2013 07:32 AM 
Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 27 Oct 2013 06:30 PM 
Art, Why not fix the "problem" which you believe is the track? Or do you also have this problem at Steve's also? Jeff, I agree 100% with you. I have a 350' long garden track in the harsh climate of Ontario and have been running my 1:32 scale homebuilt 80' streamliners with little problem for well over 20 years, they are equipped with Kadee 820s. Time spent on levelling track not to have sudden 'humps' is time never wasted, decent running starts with a decent base on which to run and using G scale couplers is a really coarse and inelegant solution to a basic inadequacy of initial track design and construction, attacking the cause rather than the result is the way to go.
By the way this has NOTHING to do with UP water cars.......who hijacked the thread? 
David M-K
Ottawa


David
The track at Zube is left alone for most of the time and has served its purpose. It probably could be be fixed the way you have your garden track. As far as highjacking the thread if you go back to beginning
I put my video on that had the UP water cars , thus I guess I highjacked it. Put me in jail.


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

I received two customer UP water cars today, one of which had a bent drag beam. The fix as suggested by Hans was very simple, the hardest part being to get the ladder bottoms and handrails back in their holes, but the whole operation took me maybe 15 minutes and I'll deliver them to my customer in the next day or two. 
I honestly don't understand what all the bleating as well as wailing and nashing of teeth is all about, I've had to fix far worse problems in the past on locos and rolling stock damaged in transit. I see it all as part of the service a responsable Dealer (me in this case) should be expected to provide, if yours isn't, I would suggest getting a new Dealer that does offer support. 
David M-K


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David M-K 

If that happened we would have missed all the whinging. For those unfamiliar with English English [as opposed to American English], please look it up and increase your vocabulary.. LOL


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

whinge *: to complain in an *annoying[/b]* way............... Key word here is * "ANNOYING"[/b]


*whinged **whing·ing* _or_ *whinge·ing*

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/afv/post/aft/129497/aff/11/javascript:void(0);
CloseStyle: MLA APA Chicago

>>> id="EBwidget_export" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: right; display: block;" action="http://www.easybib.com/cite/bulk" method="post" target="_blank">






Full Definition of _WHINGE__British_ *:* to complain fretfully *:* whine


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

An·noy·ing[/b]
/
_adjective_
adjective: *annoying*

*1*. 
*causing irritation or annoyance*.

"annoying habits"
synonyms:irritating, infuriating, exasperating, maddening, trying, tiresome, troublesome, bothersome, nettlesome, obnoxious, irksome, vexing, cursed, vexatious, galling; Moreinformal[/i]aggravating, pesky; 
informal,[/i]cursed 
"what are these annoying little insects


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay,
Finally had good run with the UP aux water tenders today at Steve's. Video later in new thread "Steamin at Steve's" in the rain.


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

I was in touch with Overlandflyer (aka Gary Miller, if that makes you feel better knowing a name) this past weekend. He is recovering from surgery and when I gave him an update, he wanted me to pass on his apologies for not being able to contribute any "whining" in a more recent response (though I'm sure I cannot even begin to capture his sarcasm at that remark).

There is no doubt that Aster has taken a sharp turn in their quality with the release of the Challenger kit. I started buying Aster American prototypes with the NKP Berkshire. I cannot say enough great things about that kit as well as the next offering, the GN S-2. Though both these kits contained hundreds of parts and were certainly not one evening projects requiring upwards of 40-50 hours to complete, assembly was relatively easy when it came to part sizing and alignment. I doubt if I had to bring out the file for more than two or three parts and that was usually only to make a part fit just a little better. Coming in at the tail end of the Berkshire kit sales, I also had the good fortune to be able to read through one or two completely documented construction series which only increased my respect for the quality product the current (then) Aster company was producing.

When it came to the Challenger kit, however, Aster had no choice but to count on their customers relying on its past reputation, an assumption I did not have a problem with, due to the new policy of only producing the number of kits pre-ordered. No longer could a customer wait to see how the kit was received, it was pre-buy or pass. But I don't want to change the point of this string to another discussion about how disappointing the Challenger kit was. Overlandflyer's only point was to test the customer response by Aster which apparently also started with the Challenger kit. When Hans was asked, "Why not publish his construction notes?" I saw his response which was basically, what is the problem?, if a part doesn't fit, file it down until it does and if a hole doesn't align, get out a drill and tap and make a new hole.

I personally find this string informative from the standpoint of any future relations with Aster. Had things not taken this sad turn in quality, I would have probably continued on with the next American prototype, the FEF. However, given the current state of Aster quality and customer support, i cannot see ever blindly purchasing one of their kits again. And if the current system of pre-order remains, it looks as though i've purchased my last Aster model. The arrogance shown with the almost total lack of helpful response with the water tender only managed to amplify those feelings.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

aopagary, 

I certainly understand your sentiment, but what other options are on the market for the person who wishes to buy a highly detailed US prototype steamer in kit form? 

It doesn't surprise me Aster may have cut a few corners to help hold down prices - something I am seeing a lot of as a consumer - especially in response to a sharp recession. It seems many companies in the hobby industry got hit pretty hard. Hopefully better days are ahead for people, and the firms which depend on people having - and feeling confident spending - money on recreations.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

BRO 

IMNSHO, I don't think this has anything to do with a"recession". It has everything to do with the attitude of the current owner of Aster Japan and his desire to maximize profits without regard to either [a] continued high quality, or maintaining the "Marque". I believe he has a soured relationship with his importers and doesn't care if Aster continues far into the future. He has shown NO PRIDE in producing the best kit-built models available in Gauge One. I am truly disappointed tin his obvious disdain for continuing a well established tradition of the Aster name. I wish some one could kick him in the back side, but I am afraid he would not understand why it happened. The Challenger and the Korea Brass auxiliary tender are the most recent manifestations of his attitude. 

Most on this forum seem to refuse to accept that the three importers have only a small amount of influence over the current owner of Aster, and he will do as he pleases regardless of the advice of the importers in the USA, UK, and continental Europe. If this were NOT true, the Challenger would not be a DOG to assemble, the French 4-8-2 would be on the street, and the BR rebuilt Merchant Navy would be nearing completion for delivery. 

I too was looking forward to the FEF-3, but now I am on the fence. 

I blame NO ONE except Aster Japan themselves. It is too bad as they produced something that used to be highly sought after, but now many are waiting to see if they self destruct. The UP water car debacle is symptomatic of this attitude. It is beyond the control of the dealers and the importers.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The operation of Aster with Fujii-san at the helm has brought the hobbyists over a dozen live steam locomotives. I do not see a flood of Asters being re-sold or returned to for performance. While I agree the Challenger has its "challenges" has anyone tried early kits (K4, NYC) and completed kits without a bit of frustration or tweaking. I cannot speak to Aster management motive or profits but the cost of the Challenger was a good valve for the money and the proof is in the performance. For me that is the bottom line, once all said and done is it does get the job done....as evident by pulling 18 cars (approximately 250 lbs) up grade on a wet rail without slipping or stalling...with ease. Having the Berk, S2 and now the Challenger it seems their performance output has not been affected by the cost cuts of the components. One perspective could be that Hans and Aster Japan might have set a ceiling on cost to the consumer in order to make it reasonable due to Yen to the Dollar and offer a reason price large locomotive (compare to a relative price of Big Boy, Garatt, Allegheny at those market exchange of the Challenger production) thereby had to do what was necessary to make it for that price.

Finally, having built several Challengers there is nothing major wrong with the design or components but a bit of QC with suppliers could have solved the minor problems. I believe that the 241 P will be the most complex locomotive on the market and if it runs as well as it looks in accordance to the prototype Aster will being offering an amazing gauge one operational steam locomotive (and it coal fired!)

http://youtu.be/TtJRxbh7HdY


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## antonyprokrulio79 (May 2, 2020)

Very interesting


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

antonyprokrulio79 said:


> Very interesting


That thread is 7 years old. Many things have changed, including Aster, since then.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

He is a spammer.. yes many changes, most notably the merger with Accucraft I think.


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## Aster Japan (Nov 24, 2011)

Even with my poor English ability, the exchange of pages here is sad. Is it my lack of effort What disappoints you. But this is the limit of effort. I'm sorry...Fujii


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## Eric Bowles (Jun 8, 2014)

Hello Fujii-san and Shigenori-san,
I am sorry that you happened upon this old thread (exchange of papers as you call it) per your comment of sadness. In My Humble Opinion as a runner; The day is coming soon where the past commissions from Hans, Pullen and Twerenbold will be considered as the benchmark for future Aster quality with superb fine detail and finish (a bit too much for me) and especially strength of engineering for steaming at comparably low prices to the early eighties. Yes, I love my early Asters for their "cost is no object" build quality but how many could afford such eccentricities in this day and age of multiple global crisis. I felt for the young designer as the Challenger was a complex feet to take on so early in his too brief career with Aster.
These sort of collaborative commissions has to be fraught with all sorts of headaches and cost over runs for all involved and you had to over come each of those. It would drive most individuals to drink. To your teams credit along with the exacting contributions & expectations of each Aster stakeholder the past criticisms have all vanished into thin air from the errors of the Challenger assembly and packaging of the Aux water tenders. 
Hopefully my meager abilities to attach a YouTube clip of the FEF-3 with Aux tenders in action will allow the past to rest in peace.
Domo Arigato,


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes
The FEF is a great performer
I could not believe my eyes when I saw it come up to steam in Sacramento in what seemed like only a couple of minutes. As you can see in the video, it was constantly blowing off while pulling that load.


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## Aster Japan (Nov 24, 2011)

Zubi san reported in a previous thread that the OS gave up on continuing the live steam business. 
I also had shocked. Because we have same roots.
How many times did we even think so? 
The demands of European distributor after the late Count Giansanti-Coluzzi were to make our brand as shameful as it was to cut our profits. It was tough. 
Lemaco’s Egger san who is my father in Europe and Hans who is American stubborn our uncle are different. 
Hans san was at the top of his homepage telling us that the exchange was being changed by a politician, making us suffering.
They are like a Cosimo de' Medici for ASTERHOBBY.
But it was the limit. I have had enough...

Why do Japanese love Americans? I think that is the inclusiveness that comes from the diversity of Americans. Accucraft and Bing san has given us the courage to work hard again. 

However, I would like you to understand that... Is it a 21st century trend of deflation?
The price that customers can buy is the price that we may sell! 
It is said that "exploitation" is plainly claimed as "customer's right" and that "corporate efforts are not enough", and then closed. 
Cheap things must be a cheap. 
You will need to pay a certain amount of money for the finish to be satisfied.
Young Japanese talented industrial designers can easily make money. It is hard for us to nurture designers in this era. 
The key is how to get interested in young designers and enjoy their work. 
And today's young Japanese are vulnerable to criticism. 
I think this is due to the lack of diversity in Japan.

The advice of Eric san Charles san and his son, Rayan and many Worldwide customers have always encouraged me. 
Thank you. I look forward to your continued advice.

Fujii,


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Fujii-san, I am currently building Heavy Mikado, it is still a wonderful locomotive, cant wait to complete it and run it with my S2.

One word of advice if I may: 頑張ってください


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