# Annie Prototype



## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

This is actually rather embarassing, but.... the standard Bachmann `Annie' or 'Big Hauler' 4-6-0 that gets released in huge numbers every holiday season and is a stock feature in most Bachmann starter sets - is the 'prototype' for that standard guage or narrow guage? 

I'd always assumed it was narrow gauge, but I have a sneaky suspicion that there might have been something very very close to it in the standard guage department as well.  Just drawing a blank here.

Also, now that I'm thinking about it...about when did these proto-types go out of service?  I have this vague idea they were pretty much history by the end of the 19th century, but then again, I have this vague suspicion some of them might have been running around on isolated branch lines and the like into the 1930's or so.


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, 

The prototype, built by Baldwin, in 1917 and is on the Tweestie, and is still running - its narrow gauge. Bachmann have all sorts of variations to it, but that it to be expected! 


Here is a whole raft of photos of the real thing - http://www.steamphotos.com/gallery/3358008#212977080 . 

A bit more is at http://www.tweetsie.com/about_us/trains.html 

The other and larger loco on the tweestie is from the White Pass & Yukon, (that is one of the orther names that Bachmann uses - BUT that loco has Walschaerts vale gear (Tweetssie #12 has Stephenson's) .


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

A quick clarification to Peter's comments--all of the Tweetsie's (or more formally the East Tennessee & Western North Carolina RR) 4-6-0s had Walschearts's valve gear, except for the first one. That one--built in 1907 as ET&WNC #8--had Stevenson's valve gear. "First" number 8 was actually a "catalog" Baldwin loco. Subsequent 4-6-0s on the railroad were built to their specificaction--with larger boilers, cylinders, and newer valve gear. First #8 was sold off the railroad in 1924, and replaced two years later by "2nd" number 8--another 4-6-0 originally built to ET&WNC plans for another railroad. So if you see a photo of ET&WNC #8, you'll see two similar--but different locomotives depending on when the photo was taken. These locos were the Tweetsie's mainstay power up until the railroad shut down in 1950.

Other narrow gauge railroads operating 4-6-0s include the Rio Grande Southern and Southern Pacific. Accucraft has just announced plans to produce the SP's 10-wheeler in 1:20.3!) These locos lasted until the end of operations on those railroads as well. RGS#20 is currently at Strasburg, PA being completely restored. I don't know if any of the SP 10-wheelers survive--hopefully someone can chime in if they did. 

On the standard gauge side of the coin (and the B'mann loco can be rebuilt into a rather convincing standard gauge 4-6-0 with just a little work), these locos were typically used on passenger runs, and would likely be found on branchlines and lesser-traveled intercity routes right up to dieselization or cessation of passenger service over those routes, whichever came first. 

Later, 

K


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

The 4-6-0 was a pretty generic design. The CB&Q had alot of standard gauge Ten Wheelers built at the beginning of the 1900s and used some of them on branch lines up until the end of steam about 1959. 

http://castlegraphics.com/photo/displayimage.php?album=10&pos=18

Terl


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

Tinker

Here is a link to my webhots...there are may pic's of Tweetsie there!

http://community.webshots.com/user/revcale


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## Guest (Feb 7, 2008)

for more background history, I forgot this link

www.urbaneagle.com/slim/etwnc.html


cale


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

But just to add to the fun - although the prototype was built as a narrow-gauge loco, its tender is a 'catalog' standard gauge tender running on narrow-gauge trucks. Hence it is quite wide, compared with tenders built specifically for the ng.  [There's a drawing of it in MR's Cyclopedia in sg form.]

Here's a photo of the tender, next to the ng tender of a C-16:











The Annie looks pretty good with the C-16 tender.  Unfortunately, I can't afford to put a $500+ brass tender on a $70 plastic loco!


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanx for the input, everybody. This was one of those 'dang, I *really* should know this' type deals, but I just kept drawing a blank.


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## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

You can do alot with them tho, here is an Annie Rio fashion


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## D-n-H - Kirkville Branch (Jan 14, 2008)

Rod hate to change the subject but.. nice bridge, is that standard pressure treated lattice? 

most people think that ET&WNC is East Tennessee & Western North Carolina RR 
but really ET&WNC is Eat Taters & Wear No Clothes RR


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Pete, not quite. Baldwin had a "formula" for tender sizes, and the 4-6-0 tender is quite in proportion for its narrow gauge size. It just looks like the standard gauge tender because the formula is based on proportions. If you want a "standard gauge" tender on narrow gauge trucks, look at the K-37. BIG difference. The C-16 tender dates from the 1870s, when narrow gauge equipment was built much narrower than the "modern" (c. 1900+) narrow gauge equipment. It's going to look narrow when compared to later equipment, but it's not because it's "narrow gauge" vs. "standard gauge." 

Johnny Graybeal's "Along the ET&WNC, Vol 2" covers the 10-wheelers in incredible detail. 

Later, 

K


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## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes it is a pressure treated job, a bit greener now. Two pieces with a 4.5" gravel board between them on top. 

On the subject of tenders the one on #36 is taller than the orignal as it has another slice of Annie tender added to the bottom as RGS #20 did, which this is based on. On reflection this tender is a tad too long. I'll try harder next time


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

While we're still discussing tenders, (not Annies or bridges,) you may note that my tender has one improvement - I deleted the two center rows of rivets with a small chisel. As they are oversize, losing half the rivets improves the look, I think. [You can see them in the first of my tender pics.]


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## jaycosnett (Jan 4, 2008)

SP #8 is on display in Nevada somewhere. SP #9 is on display at the Laws Railroad Museum, just outside of Bishop, California. Laws was the northern terminus of the SP narrow gauge from 1941 (?) until the end of operations in 1960. 

SP #18 has been on display in Independence, CA (Inyo County seat, south of Bishop), and there was a group working on restoring her. They got as far as a low pressure boiler test, I think, but I haven't been able to find out anything since then. I think they were looking for a location where they could work on her out of the weather. 

"Slim Gauge Through the Sand" is, I think, the title of a very complete book (out of print, I'm sure) about the Carson and Colorado and later SP narrow gauge line. 

The "Slim Princess" 



My first narrow gauge love!


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

There are some Baldwin 10-wheelers on display at the Nevada State Railroad Museum south of Reno (I forget the town) and at least one is a runner, as I recall. I have photos, but not at hand right now. BTW, that is a pretty neat museum with lots of other, older locos, plus rolling stock that's either restored or under restoration. They have steamups around many major holidays, but I'd go on the museum website if ya really want to know.


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's some stuff on the Nevada museum loco. It's ex V&T and is on dispaly in Carson City. It's not a runner, though. 

No. 27 pictured inside the museum. 


Virginia & Truckee No. 27 was the last new locomotive purchased by the V&T, arriving in 1913 from the Baldwin Locomotive Works factory in Philadelphia. Like the other V&T locomotives acquired in the 20th century, No. 27 was not named. It was built as a freight engine, but in typical V&T fashion it found itself pulling all types of trains. After the mid 1920s, mixed passenger and freight trains were the order of the day on the V&T, frequently pulled by No. 27 and her twin sister, No. 26. 

No. 27 was well liked by the V&T crews, and worked hard over the years. Its last major overhaul was at the Southern Pacific Sparks shops in 1940, where it received a steel cab from recently scrapped SP locomotive no. 1458. By 1948 No. 27 was in need of another major shopping. Short finances lead the V&T to retire it instead. 

No. 27 pulled a number of special trains over the years, the earliest known being the Victory Loan train in 1919. In 1938 it doubleheaded with 4-4-0 No. 11 "RENO" on the Railway & Locomotive Historical Society special to Gold Hill and Virginia City, marking the end of that line. No. 27 returned from retirement for the last weeks of the V&T, including the last run on May 31, 1950. Donated to the people of Nevada, it was displayed in Carson City and Virginia City over the years. It has been cosmetically restored to its appearance in 1941, and is presently on display at the museum.


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