# lubrication grease



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

I wonder where could I order lubrication grease for the gears online. I have been searching around in Lowe, ACE and Radioshack, none has the grease for our purpose.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I use LGB Gear Lubricant (#51020). The price tag on the tube says Charles Ro $8.75. I've had it for many years, so I don't know if Ro still has it or not. Train-Li a sponcer here has a large inventory if LGB products. I'd suggest them or Mike Kidman at Reindeer Pass Railroad, also a sponcer here.

A little bit goes a long way.

Chuck


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

chuck n said:


> I use LGB Gear Lubricant (#51020). The price tag on the tube says Charles Ro $8.75. I've had it for many years, so I don't know if Ro still has it or not. Train-Li a sponcer here has a large inventory if LGB products. I'd suggest them or Mike Kidman at Reindeer Pass Railroad, also a sponcer here.
> 
> A little bit goes a long way.
> 
> Chuck


Thanks Chuck the the information; I will contact them. A few months ago, I mentioned the USA docksider kind of having a skipping gear sound when it is on a graded track. A few days ago, I opened it up and found the new gear is broken and it skipped and some teeth are damaged. I think part of the problem is that I didn't apply grease when I changed the gears.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

You can also use Mobil 1 synthetic automotive grease. It is plastic compatible and a lot cheaper than hobby packaged lubes. All the synthetic automotive lubes are plastic compatible to my knowledge.
John


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Check Ace for a synthetic lubricant called "Super Lube." You can order it online as well, but the company's web site suggests it's carried by Ace, True Value, etc. That's the stuff Barry's Big Trains uses for his drives. 

Later,

K


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, first broken driveline gear on a docksider I have heard of. Was there any lube on the gear when you inspected it?

Could you tell if the teeth broke first, and then the gear slipped or vice versa.

Also, I have written a page on lubrication that might be helpful:

http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?...e&id=20:lubrication&catid=13:trains&Itemid=50

Regards, Greg


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg, informative page (as expected), but check your history of WD-40. It was developed for use on the Atlas rockets in the 50s, not the space shuttle.  Score one for your hometown team, though. A product of San Diego! 

Later,

K


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, must have snuck in when copying it... by the way, using it on the Atlas rocket was the first commercial use, but it was NOT developed for the Atlas rocket, it was developed to displace water (WD - Water Displacement, 40th formula)... not too much water on an Atlas missle!

It was developed for the Aerospace industry... Check the name of the company that developed it:









Greg


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Wow, first broken driveline gear on a docksider I have heard of. Was there any lube on the gear when you inspected it?
> 
> Could you tell if the teeth broke first, and then the gear slipped or vice versa.
> 
> ...


Greg,
Basically, one of the screws that holds the side rod connecting to the drivewheel was broken and thus I have to change all 3 axles, as you know USA trains requires us to buy all 3. So these are all new axles, and as you know different from LGB locomotives, which have 2 driving gears, for the USA docksiders only the rear axle as the driving gear. And I didn't apply lubrication grease on the gear. After running the locomotives a few time, it was great but then it start stopping at the slightly graded track. And I heard the skipping sound. After examining the broken gear last weekend, I think the motor grinds the gear causing some of the teeth broken, and as it keeps pulling the stuck gears so powerful that makes the gear cracks open and as the consequence the gear starts skipping around the axle. Once I know the mechanism how things work, I can change the new gear easily, and infact I did last weekend, but this time I have to learn my lesson that I need to use abundant of lubrication grease though.


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

mymodeltrain said:


> I wonder where could I order lubrication grease for the gears online. I have been searching around in Lowe, ACE and Radioshack, none has the grease for our purpose.


We sell a gear lubricant that is manufactured by the same people that made the LGB gear lubricant. You can find it on this webpage, at the bottom of the page.

Mohammed
www.allaboutlgb.com


----------



## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used white lithium grease which is plastic compatible, no problems so far.

Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

since we have to buy such small amounts, it makes sense to get the best you can find, I prefer a lithium grease with moly in it.

A synthetic might be good, but I have not found the synthetics with moly. Moly works into surfaces and adds a slippery surface.

Greg


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Greg Elmassian said:


> since we have to buy such small amounts, it makes sense to get the best you can find, I prefer a lithium grease with moly in it.
> 
> A synthetic might be good, but I have not found the synthetics with moly. Moly works into surfaces and adds a slippery surface.
> 
> Greg


Thanks all for kind help. After I applied grease on the gear and lubricated the rods and other movable parts, USA docksider ran again yesterday evening after several months out of service. With my new and wider railway, it ran very nice and smooth particularly with slow speed. This is the first time I enjoyed the locomotive fully after more than 2 years since I bought it. I don't have to worry derailment or other issues, which happened to this locomotive more frequently in the past. It really requires knowledge and experience to overcome the problems and now I just enjoy it. I plan to make some movies this weekend if the weather allows.


----------



## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

I've been experimenting with bicycle Teflon Polymer grease - with very good results. It has a clean encapsulation without drip or spread around the gearing areas. And non-corrosive for plastics due to the teflon coating. 3.5 oz tube $7.99 - good for at least 15 gear box overhauls.

http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/bicycle-greases/premium-grease-made-with-teflon-fluoropolymer

There is also a second product I'm looking at but higher end from Dupont which uses fluorinated polymers for high end bicycle racing where anything that moves (calipers, cables, gears..) is lubricated.

http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/bicycle-greases/extreme-fluoro-grease


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

my experiences with early lubes with teflon was that the teflon did not stay dispersed and clumped up.

I'm sure this has been improved, do you have any long term results Victor? 

Have you tried the ceramic grease? The "plating" effect sounds plausible.

Thanks for sharing this,

Greg


----------



## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

I started some tests in Dec with several outdoor Aristo pullman heavyweight passenger cars and a single old SD45. Initially the SD45 barely made it around the 280 feet of track - with a struggle and with 6 or 7 passenger cars and very gentle grades. 

https://vimeo.com/164897259#t=0s

I wanted to test through sleet, rain, snow, dirt, dust, heat and leaves Dec through April. Using the first fluoropolymer with a single application on the engine gearbox and bearings only ( I let the passenger cars squeak on without any lube), it just sailed through the layout. I've now acquired another 7 Aristo streamliners to see what happens, but I will apply to all moving wheels and add another 6 weighted coal hoppers one by one.

I have not tested the ceramic grease version found on the site. May be a good reason to compare that in the summer outdoors.

Vic


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Victor, please do not take this as I don't believe you, but did you actually open up the 6 individual gearboxes on the SD45? That's a lot of work. Some people have drilled holes in them to lube them, but STILL, it's a fair amount of work to disassemble these motor blocks... were your motor "forks" soldered?

Greg


----------



## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

At first I wanted to try what this set of video clips showed http://www.rayman4449.com/Aristocraft_SD45_Mods.htm

Then, not wanting to remove the motor blocks from the engine and didn't like the soldering iron idea, I used a thick syringe needle and simply forced the grease at anything i could get at around the bearing sleeves. Then let it run and wick for at least an hour, then applied one more time. There was no spill or spread, it appeared to have wicked in dry.

I will try one more thing though - Drill a tiny hole into the gear box plastic and force in some lubricant, then cap the hole with wax.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, I believe you can get the grease into the ball bearings, but I'm very skeptical that you got it on the gears themselves, this grease cannot wick like oil can it? It's grease.

BUT

I have never seen the gears themselves dry. The failures I have seen is that there is no lube on the axles, and that causes all kinds of issues by restricting the ability of the axle to slide side to side.

Also, you might not be aware of the internal construction, so the "pickup" ball bearing can run dry can literally carve grooves in the axle.

Also, most people are not aware that the axle bearings are hybrid, steel races and ceramic ball bearings, and I definitely thing you got grease in there.

Thanks for answering the questions without taking them as accusations... a big issue with Aristo motor blocks is the amount of labor to pull them apart.

I think a very small hole to allow your syringe to just reach the worm gear is sufficient, filling the entire cavity is not necessary, based on the typical longevity of Aristo gearboxes. 

Have you seen my page with the block and gearbox disassembled?

http://elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=215&Itemid=248

Regards, Greg


----------



## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

No, I've not seen your page until now. The ingenious spring loaded ball bearing aligner tip can certainly erode the axle as you have illustrated with no lube - I did not know that they are also not used for power transfer - thanks!

What's interesting is that I applied a fair amount of the 'gel' using this curved syringe - http://www.amazon.com/12-Disposable-Syringe-Tapered-Curved/dp/B0002YFRAW In about an hour of running the sleeve area was dry with a grayish residue. Where could the bulk of it have gone if it hadn't wicked in ? Hence my assumption its literally percolated the polymer into the gearbox.

Vic


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh, if it is a thixotropic gel (which most gel lubes are, their claim to fame is not flinging off), then "wicking" can be accomplished, sort of...

But what concerns me is dry with a grayish residue... that is just not right. I don't think that this was caused by the electrical conduction.

I'd repeat the experiment with a heavy gear oil, meaning the hobby gear lube that is typically a heavy, sticky oil... 

The residue and it being dry is not good... 

so, were you trying to get into the ball bearing? it's pretty hard since it is behind that shiny metal clip held on with 2 screws:









and the bearing is not an "open" bearing, but has a "dust shield" (as opposed to fully sealed)









so it WOULD have to wick in to get there... I suppose if you really tried to put a lot in it would get to the bearing, but that seems to fly in the face of the axle surface going dry (I assume that is what you mean by the sleeve area, since there is no sleeve, the axle rides in the inner races of the ball bearings).

These pictures show it with the gearbox out of the motor block, it's even harder to get to still in the block.

Let's investigate this more... very strange.

Greg


----------



## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

I checked with my bike shop foreman who deals with the $9K Yeti bikes and he indicated the grayish dry residue is completely normal as the polymer spreads and dry coats when frictional heat is present. Apparently for these bikes they insist that the owner never try and grease the gear components or derailleur with anything but this grease or they will charge more for degreasing and removing the grime and dust that accumulates with other synthetic greases or lubes used on normal mountain treks. A non-compliant service overhaul costs an additional $79!!


http://www.competitivecyclist.com/yeti-cycles-sb5-carbon-x01-complete-mountain-bike-2016?skidn=YTI003H-RAW-M&rec=sameCat


----------

