# Accucraft Axle Pump Bypass Questions



## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Observations:[/b]
My Mason Bogie is my first axle pump on a locomotive and I would like to find out more about its workings or not working. Here are some of my observations:
Accucraft’s manual does not mention the bypass in the axle pump descriptions.
The factory bypass operates by turning the bolt on the top clockwise to close and counter clockwise to increase the water to the boiler. My unit was factory set at 180 degrees counter clockwise.
When firing up the Mason the tender needs to have water in it and you need to prime the pump with the manual pump handle.
There is a relief pipe that returns over flow water back to the reservoir from the pump. I assume that less overflow means more is going into the boiler.
If adjusted correctly the sight glass should show a center level of water and the Mason will approach the 40 minute operating time.
Problem:[/b]
My sight glass water level went down in 15 minutes of running on the bench despite my tinkering and increasing the rotation of the bypass adjustment bolt. Hand pumping only seemed to return water to the reservoir and not to the boiler. The water level in the tender never went down like the Climax.
Questions:[/b]
What needs to be done to get the bypass working? (I did read where some of you tapped it to free of the valve.) What needed to be tapped, the pump, the bypass, or the workings on the axle.
What rotation degree setting satisfies your mason water level?
Is a constant stream from the overflow reasonable?
Can you see a noticeable change in overflow as the bypass is adjusted?
Thanks:[/b]
Please add all the information you may so this thread will help me and any future steamers that are searching for the same answers.
I am looking for many hours of enjoyment from my Mason and thank to all the MLS members that got it into production.
Wesley 
SA #212


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Wesley, 
With the bypass open, all water will return to the 'tender'. 
With the bypass closed, all water will go into the boiler. 
Depending on the efficiency and size of the axle pump, you may or may not need to allow a few drops of water to return to the tender. 
So, make sure that you can indeed 'close' the bypass so that NO water is seen to return to the tender. 
You will then know if the bypass control is functioning before you need to look any further. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If you can close the bypass completely as evidenced by the lack of water flow back to the tender tank and yet the level of the water in the tender does not go down then there are a couple of possible problems.

It is possible that the intake valve of the axle pump is not sealing well to prevent water from backflowing from the pump to the tender. Given that you have a hand pump in the tender tank then there are actually two more one-way valves in it that are also not sealing. This is possible since these valves are not all that perfect in the first place. A small amount of debris on the valve seats or on the ball (or plunger/flapper, etc. what ever is the movable portion of the valve that covers the valve seat) is keeping it from sealing against the back flow of water. Or a scar on the ball or seat is allowing water to get through the valve. But all three of them would have to be leaking.


If the outlet valve of the pump is frozen to not let water out of the pump or the clack valve (the inlet valve on the boiler) is stuck such that water cannot enter the boiler and the bypass is closed so it cannot return to the tender then where is the energy going that should be moving the water?

If the inlet valve(s) are sealing well, but water is still not leaving the tender, then the pump itself must be not working. There are several possibilities as to why:

Is the eccentric on the axle turning with the axle or has it come lose and the axle is spinning inside the eccentric and thus not moving the pump piston?

Is the axle bending as it rotates such that the piston rod is not moving? (Not very likely!, they are probably much too thick and rigid to flex that much!)

Do the axle bearings have so much slop in them that the axle is moving forward and backward by being pushed by the rotation of the eccentric? (Should be very noticeable to move enough for this to be the problem.)

Is the piston rod from the eccentric to the piston in the pump flexing and thus not moving the piston in the cylinder? (Probably too rigid to flex enough, but maybe the joint where the rod connects to the piston is sloppy or the journal where the rod slides on the eccentric is too loose.)

Is the cylinder support flexing such that the whole pump is moving with the piston? (Not likely as the chassis is probably too rigid to flex much but are the screws tight that attach the pump to the chassis?)

Somewhere along the line of transfer of motion, something is "giving" to absorb the motion instead of applying the motion to the movement of water. If not, the engine would "lock up" and not move at all.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley - Clockwise closes the bypass diverting all the water to the boiler. Close it all the way and open just a crack. Should maintain about a 1/2 boiler. Unles you started with a full boiler then you will have to wait for it to drop down before using the pump to fill or maintain th eboiler level.

Youc an also grind a slot on the pump handle to control the valve as it is in a hard area to reach.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

On my Catatonk Climax, as you say, the axle pump and associated water lines sometimes needs to be "primed" with few strokes of the hand pump before it starts working properly. The factory bypass operates by turning the bolt on the top clockwise to close and counter clockwise to increase the water to the boiler.I believe you have that backwards. As Jason said, full clockwise closes the _bypass valve_ sending all water to the boiler. Counter-clockwise rotation starts opening the valve, allowing more and more water to flow back into the tender. Hand pumping only seemed to return water to the reservoir and not to the boiler. The water level in the tender never went down like the Climax.That will happen if the bypass valve is open. Water from the hand pump is being returned to the tender, not injected into the boiler. That's also why the tender water level never falls. 




I would add that it isn't necessarily required to maintain a steady water level in the boiler - desirable perhaps, but not necessary. Periodic adjustments of the bypass valve will allow the boiler water level to rise and fall, but never deplete. This is akin to the fireman using the injector to maintain water level via periodic monitoring and maintenance. Where the bypass is set to maintain water level will also depend upon how fast the locomotive is running and how much it's pulling - in other words, how much steam, and therefore water, it's using. During the initial stages of a run you'll probably find yourself making periodic adjustments of the valve setting until you hit the sweet spot for that particular run. If you ask me, it's all part of the "hands-on" fun of running a real steam locomotive.


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

As Dwight points out, it is all part of live steam. 
It depends on what type of track you are on, and what load you are pulling as to how much water the boiler will be using, and therefor how much will need to be replenished by the axle, or hand pump. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## Don5 (Nov 25, 2009)

Sure can't beat the timeliness of this thread! I recently received my Accucraft Mason Bogie. Being totally new to live steam, I was wondering about all of the new axle pump plumbing and how to use it. Thanks very much. Any other operation thoughts from your steaming experiences and expertise are greatly appreciated. I haven't had the confidence to fire mine up yet. Too bad Accucraft couldn't update their operator manual, or just add a supplement. I'm still in the process of figuring out how this stuff works. Guess they assume all customers have steam experience. I tried to email "Cliff" at Accucraft, but received no response. Maybe I bit off more than I can chew. Oh well, even as a shelf queen, it's still the prettiest engine I've ever seen........


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Don5
"Maybe I bit off..." best thing to do is to got to a steam up or find a fellow live steamer in your location to help with initial firing session(s). Just remember we all have to learn the in's and out's of running a steam engine.


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Don, 
We are all different, and you may be confident enough to do it alone. 
But if not, may I suggest finding someone to show the ropes the first time, or just watch someone else with a live steam loco. 
Where in the world are you? 
It's not 'rocket science', but I think that it helps to have someone who can explain what to do, when to do it, what to look out for and certainly what NOT to do. 
Anyway, like I say, we are all different and I am sure that many live steamers have just jumped in the deep end by themselves. 
Have fun and enjoy, 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Don, 
You can call me anytime and try and do it over the phone if no one is in your area.


----------



## Don5 (Nov 25, 2009)

I realize this steam stuff is not rocket science, but this was a major investment for me, and I don't want to unknowingly screw it up. I have been unable to find anyone locally with experience, just one responder that is a couple of hundred miles from me. And we are still in the grip of winter here. I will work it out sometime, though. Meanwhile, I will continue to learn from you guys. Probably should have started out with a Ruby. Thanks for your offer, Mark! I was keeping this in mind when you made the same offer to me on another thread. I might take you up on that when I get things set up. Right now I am assembling a roller platform for stationary operation since I don't currently have a layout.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Don, you have been given a lot of offers for help, here is one more. I am not sure who the author of the video is, but here is a link to part 1 and from there you can find part 2. While not a Mason Bogie, it still is an accucraft engine that runs off butane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLblRBwg2lQ


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Don 5
Start with what you do know based on the manual, the you tube video


1- Read manual, if indoors vent the area. The rollers setup are a good platform to practice from

2- Locate the basic operating components (throttle,reverser). Might want to do first run with cab off. Easier to see and get to items

3- Water, oil, fuel (water into boiler leave enough room for steam via fill cap in cab area, oil in lubricator leave room for displacement, fuel in tank-be careful once fueled moved engine to another spot to prevent lighting the escaped gas)
4- light lubrication (machine oil)of moving parts 

5- prime the hand pump by pumping some water into the boiler 

6-open fire box door, light the torch and crack the gas valve (do not open all the way) once lit the flame should kick back into the firebox area (might have turn the gas valve down a bit) then close the smokebox door. Turn the gas valve up some (maybe 1/2 turn more)

7- About 20 psi pull up on the safety tip to make sure the safety will vent
8- Not necessary but around 40 lbs open throttle a bit to clear the cylinders (might want to cover the stack to lessen the wet exhaust from spilling over onto things)

9- At 60 psi crack the throttle , practice throttle and reverser

10- Pump with hand pump when throttle is closed
11- Utilize the axle pump by turning the by pass valve (should be on side of loco) one direction will have water going back into the tender the opposite to boiler.

12- Finished turn off gas flow, open throttle to release the steam pressure (plus best not to close throttle all the way once finished keep it from getting stuck- mainly front in throttles) cooling down, clean


Enjoy


----------



## Don5 (Nov 25, 2009)

Nice checklist, Charles! Just about have the roller setup done, and am looking forward to trials. Again, thanks to all for the helpful input. That is what is nice about this website! I apologize for coming off as critical of Cliff at Accucraft - I am still in awe of this beautiful loco, and am just a bit hesitant in my lack of knowledge. I am sure that they might assume that their market for an engine of this sophistication is probably more experienced in live steam. But thanks to you guys, information and encouragement is building fast, and I am sure I will soon be stinking up the house with steam oil, much to the chagrin of the wife.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I apologize for coming off as critical of Cliff at Accucraft - I am still in awe of this beautiful loco 
Don, 

Cliff is usually pretty good at replying, and we all find him a great resource, so phone the office if he doesn't reply and make sure you have the right address. 

The 'Charles Checklist' is great, but be aware that Accu's locos often don't have accessible safety valves so they are tough to test! 

My C-19 don't need 60 psi to get moving. They'll run at 20 psi. 

I am sure that they might assume that their market for an engine of this sophistication is probably more experienced in live steam. 
Well, I haven't heard of anyone getting started with a Daylight or the Cab-Forward, but I'm sure it happens. 

The good news is that the Accucraft locos all have the same basics, they just add more features as they get bigger and more complicated. The K's have dual burners and room in the tender for a hand water pump, for example, but otherwise they are just like your engine.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

A minor corrections to Charles list (to avoid confusion)... 
11- Utilize the axle pump by turning the by pass valve (should be on side of loco) one direction will have water going back into the tender the opposite to boiler. 
On the mason, the bypass valve is in the center directly in front of the water bunker. Clockwise closes the bypass directing all water into the boiler. Counter-clockwise opens the bypass, directing some water to the boiler and some back into the water bunker. The end of the bypass line is on top of the hand pump's front end. When the bypass is open, you'll see water jetting from this line, both when the loco's wheels are turning and when you use the hand pump. 

Additionally... 
5- prime the hand pump by pumping some water into the boiler 
Have the bypass valve closed when doing this (fully clockwise) to prime the lines all the way to the boiler. As for testing the safety, as Pete mentions, it is pretty inaccessible making it hard to test. If pressure rises to 60 psi and the safety hasn't lifted, turn off the fire and let her cool down. Once cooled, the safety will have to be serviced.


----------



## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for the great answers. I did get the engine running longer and the pump to draw water out of the tender. 
I will elaborate just in case it helps someone else to understand the bypass valve. 
Several of you had the same excellent description of using the bypass, but it finally sank in when *Dwight* suggested I was looking at it backwards. “_I believe you have that backwards. As Jason said,_ _full clockwise closes the bypass valve sending all water to the boiler. Dwight_ “. 
I also read in another thread by Jason that the ball appeared to be stuck and tapping it unfroze it…So I broke out my trust 3oz bass hammer and tapped away humming Maxwell’s Silver Hammer. I did notice that the bypass valve would now turn clockwise an additional ¼ turn. 
I put the Mason back on the Rollers and refreshed the gas, water, and oil. Fired up the boiler, primed the axle pump and waited 7 minutes to get to 50psi. Once there was pressure a steady stream of water was flowing from the open overflow and I could adjust the flow. By turning all the way clockwise the flow decreased to a very small drip. I ran the engine for 28 minutes (great improvement) until interrupted. The bypass almost emptied the tender and when cooled down I still had 100ml in the boiler so I call this exercise a *SUCCESS!* 
*David*, great dissertation with a way to differentiate problems in different parts of the system. I hope I never need to know that much but I do know who to ask if I do. 
*Jason*, I had picked up your suggestion to grind a slot on the end of the pump handle in your other thread and had done so with a hacksaw and file. Found only one side needs to be notched since the bypass adjustment cap is asymmetrical. Yes thanks it was a great help. 
I will share a tip I discovered. On the solid end of the axle pump handle I cut/filed a notch 1/8” deep. I then soldered a ½” by ¼” by 1/16” brass bar stock in the notch length wise and “Voila” you have a screw driver to tighten/loosen the oil filler and boiler caps. 
*Charles*, nice check list and video resource to learn from. 
*Don*, I read you now have run your Mason with the help of the above Gurus giving you the courage to test the water. Every one of us has had those intimidations. I am glad you overcame them; you will have many years of enjoyment like I have. 
Thanks all, 
Wesley 
SA #212


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Remember when your engine cools down that it will suck in the water from the tender through the check valves as the boiler goes from hot to cold. Its usually how I refill my boiler after a run.


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

OR OVERFILL!!!!!! 
Always a nuisance. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------

