# Lightning doesn't strike the same place twice - Ha, it does.



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

They say Lightning doesn't strike the same place twice - Bullship







It can.

I didn't post the first time this happened, but this time I will. Though some of you know from being in chat. 
Well it happened again. The sewer line has backed up once again into the goat cave from that swine un-used comode down here. So once again I had Billy come in from the city maintanance dept.and blow out the line with the jetter truck AND this time I had the builder of the house here also with another guy who had worked on it to trace the line to the city line. They don't know exactly where it is, but a good idea. Either way, when the house was built, the guy they had sub-contracted to do the plumbing did everything INSIDE the house with rigid thick wall 4" PVC pipe to code, but outside the line was done with thin wall 4" PVC. I found this out when we found and dug up the drain line and blew out the line the first time, I noted when the drain line exits the house and 3 feet out this idiot downconverted the 4" rigid to 4" thinwall PVC possibliy to save a couple bucks, charge for thickwall and pocket the difference. So whatever, I will have to eventually have to replace about 120 ft of drain line perhaps at my expense







Perhaps for now, we can replace up to where the line plugged up about 25 ft down from the cleanout ( which I had to put in, it was never installed ) . The problem most likely is a break in the line or roots have intruded and created the blockage over time. THe trains are all ok, but I had alot of cardboard boxes that held parts, scenery materials, etc that have to be pitched. THis go around I have stocked up on protective gear to keep from getting sick this time. And the biggest thing I'm doing this time is removing that Flippin' toliet and capping off the line so this will NEVER, NEVER happen again !!!! Do y'all think I'm a bit pissed ??? I hope I never run into this plumber guy. If I do, .... Well, let's not go here. I just got over having this E coli bug for over a week the first time I cleaned up this mess. I should get an attorney and sue the crap outta this guy. But the way the law is no-a-days where the offender seems to have more rights than the victim, he'd probibly get off and away with it and maybe sue me just to be a jerk. Ah ****, this sucks









So if you had an order with me from my sales list and I haven't gotten back to you the last couple days, this is why. 

Well I'd better get back to work again.

Rocky


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

How old of a house is it? Looked fairly new to me. Later RJD


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Rocky...WRONG FIX DUDE!!!! Don't cap that toilet.

Sewer lines are supposed to be dry. The only time they're wet is when effluent is passing down them. It's pretty obvious that you have some form of blockage...or piping collapse...or a shifted pipe. 

You should first have the sucker truck suck it out...then have a plumber run a camera down the sewer line to see what the problem is. The thin wall tubing isn't bad pipe...but roto-rooter gear can tear it up...and that could have happened in the past. You could also have roots in it. It could also have sagged so that there's a place in the sewer line that is always full of water...which slows sewage down till it collects and clogs the line.

You NEED to find the clog...with a camera...and locate it...then figure a way ahead. Just capping off that toilet is NOT a fix...and frankly could make things worse...cause the next thing that happens is that sewage backs up through the sink drain...or the laundry drain...or a floor drain. 

You need to find and fix the reason for the clog.

And....if the line has NO PROBLEMS...then your city sewer may be backing up where you line dumps into it. That's a whole nuther adventure...


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

The house is not old. Built in 2005, RJ.
Mikey, I DO intend to find and fix the problem. Yet I want this "open toliet" capped as so it does not pukify my basement anymore







I'd rather, if it has to backup again, have it go into the tub on the main floor. At least there it is contained and can be cleaned easily. When Billy was here with the jetter truck, we measured off where the HP hose hit the blockage and I marked that spot along where the line should be. I will be digging there tomorrow to see if there is a root issue. I talked with my stepson also to "Hire" him to help me do the replacement of the line upgrading back up to thickwall PVC as weather permits. I'd rather give him the money than some plumber and it'd be a **** of alot cheaper too







I'm not paying $75+ Hr for someone who may be one of those "always on break" guys. I have the knowledge and can still do some physical work too. But I do like the camara idea. Wonder who does it here and how $$$ that is. Will have to check. BUT that toliet has got to go !!!







I don't want my world down here to be a shiddy place to be. Cleanin' this crap up is really for a bunch of .... Well you get the idea. So now tonight the wet stuff is cleaned up and I'll be scraping the floor tonight and tomorrow I'll be cleaning the floor with bleach to "Sterilize" it again. and oh yeah, cappin' off the and removin' the crapper









Now I'm going to start runnin a train. Keeps a nice atmosphere while doin' da work









Rocky


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I wouldn't dig till you know where the clog is. Call a plumber...ask who has the camera rig. I had one house done...and the rig looks like an electronic roto-rooter. The camera is on the end of a stiff cable that is pushed through the drain...and there's a little TV that shows what it sees. The cable is marked in feet so you know how far out the camera is when it you find the problem. That tells you where to dig. I had about 150' of pipe done...and it took less than a half hour...found a small low spot with about 1/2" of standing water. Decided that wasn't enough to justify digging up the pipe. I don't recall the camera scoping to be expensive...but it sure tells you what's going on.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I had the camera scoping done about five years ago, roughly 125 feet and it was about $200.









You will find the EXACT problem and where it is located precisely! Makes everybody's job easier, INCLUDING the plumber and he will know exactly where the digging has to be done.


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

That's what I'll do then, but they'll need a locator to figure out where exactly the pipe is buried.
Will keep y'all informed









Rocky


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Something i saw on Holmes on Homes that would probably help you is a back-flow preventer. It looks similar to a giant one-way valve that goes on your main sewer line out so that in case the city sewer itself gets backed up of flooded the stuff wont flow back into your basement again. I have seen above street level drains / tubs overflow from the backup pressure.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

About 7 years ago I was going to bed one night around 1 AM (I'm retired so bed time is whenever I am sleepy) and was "checking the house" in my normal routine (checking doors to be sure they are locked, lights are off, etc.) and switched on the basement light and glanced down the stairs just out of habit. The floor didn't look "right"... kind of "glassy"... and a plastic gallon milk jug that I had tossed down there to use later was moved to the middle of the shop floor... and "bobbing"! 

I went down to the bottom step and peered around the corner to see the floor drain and there was a MOUND of water directly over it; the water was coming in that fast! This here "totally panicked homeowner" waded through the water to the main water valve and shut off all water to the house and it made no difference, so I grabbed the phone book in a frantic search for a phone number to call... could not find a City Sewer Department emergency number so I called the City Water Department emergency number. 

The lady that answered the phone did not want to believe it was water coming back into the house from the city sewer line. "Who would be up at that hour in a residential neighborhood using enough water to have it mound up over the floor drain? Go shut off the water to your house." I said I had already done that. She finally forwarded the call on to the Sewer Department. The fellow there said there would be some one out to check the line, "soon". 

I went back to check the basement and noted the water was almost to the other side (the high side where the previous owner had installed a sump pump... which I have only heard run twice... once when the house inspector I hired before I purchased the house, tested it by pullling up on the float, and once when I dumped 8 gallons of water into the sump to see if it worked). At the base of the stairway there were about 2 inches of water, a foot or more over the floor drain and it was still mounded up from the in-flow. I then heard a truck outside and the City workers were there opening a manhole and dropping a probe in. I went out to see what was going on and they rather cheerfully said, "Hey, go check your basement now! Bet it is draining!" I went back and there was no standing water anymore! But a lot of stuff was ruined!

It never reached the sump to get it to run.

I went back outside and chatted with the workers (and thanked them profusely!) and they said a camera truck would come to check the line later that day. I spoke to that crew as they ran the camera in the line. I stood at the back of the truck and watched the monitor and could count the openings from each house on the street as the camera went past them. They said that this portion of the line would be put on a list to be checked annually from now on.

The cameras was a 4 inch diameter "torpedo" with six knobby metal wheels (3 on each side). The cable off one end was about 1 and a quarter inches in diameter! The operator could control its motion forward and backward and stopped it periodically to adjust the view.

They have been back every year since then to inspect the line and about 4 years ago they then ran a cutter down the line and re-ran the camera. In talking to one of the fellows then, he said they will continue to do this every year until the line needs total replacement, which might be sometime in the next 50 years.

My kids came the weekend after the "incident" and we tossed a lot of stuff from the basement, but took some items (rubber floor mats, etc.) to a DIY car wash to used the hand wand to clean them. Then we vacuumed up the remaining water with my Wet/Dry shop vac, and then swabbed it all down with bleach and vacuumed it again. (The Lord has blessed me with 3 great kids!)

I really wonder what would have happened if I had not checked the basement when I did! What if I was on a 2 week vacation! UGHH!

I bought a small "water detector" device (beeps Morse code "SOS") to put on the floor in an attempt to notify me sooner if there is ever a problem again. It has gone off a couple of times due to my sewer line to the street clogging while I am doing laundry ( I have a plumber to my house about once every two years to run a cutter in my line to the street... costs about $125 each time). I have also heard it go off due to water running across the floor from normal (for that basement!) seepage after a heavy rain. 

I test the unit every time I do laundry to be sure the 9-V battery is still good. The only problem with the device is that the ". . . - - - . . ." is just a high pitched irritant noise if I am upstairs, until I suddenly realize just what I am hearing. It is not loud enough to wake me up at night. Needs a remote "klaxon" that could be mounted upstairs near my bedroom.

Replacing my sewer line would be at least $10,000 because it runs directly under my porch and walkway to the street... it would not just be digging a hole, laying pipe and refilling it. It would entail replacing the concrete slab porch and the entire length of the sidewalk. Cheaper so far to just deroot the line every couple of years. I have considered having a liner installed in it, but have not priced it.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Interesting topic. 

Sorry for your troubles Rocky. As a certified sewer installer I can give you some advice. Mike is right, capping the toilet will not solve the problem. To be honest I would not cap the toilet at all. If your concerned about another backup then I would create a dam in your bathroom to keep the water in that one spot. I'd probably place plastic on the floor and then seal around the toilet so the water stays on the plastic. The other question is, do you have any floor drains in your basement? If your house was built in 2005 it better. Pretty much every munipal building code requires it and has been for a long time depends on your area but I could say that International Building Code (Most municipaities use it) adopted the requirement in the 90s. So if the toilet is capped then you will get water in from the drain. 

The camera is a great idea and you should do that. If you have a local Roto Rooter in your area they usually have the camera. Since your house was built in 2005, I cant believe you have a root problem already. If you do, then you have some really aggresive plants growing around the pipe. 

I would agree that the thickwall pipe is better but that doesnt mean the thin wall stuff is crap. The advantage of the thickwalled stuff is it resists collapsing due to heavy weight. However in most residential applications the thinwall stuff is just fine. Someone mentioned that it could be damaged by the Roto stuff and that is definately correct, however, so can the thick stuff. 

My opinion is you have a low spot somewhere or you have an issue with the city sewer backing up into your house. Check with your neighbors and see if they are having any problems. 

Lastly, and I hope this isnt the case, the plumber could have installed the pipe and didnt glue it. It has happened before and it can happen again. If thats the case I'd sue the building contractor. He in turn can go after the plumber. I sue the building contractor because he is ultimately responsible for the build and he has more to loose than a little sub contractor. It would be a pain but you need to do those things, its the only way a contractor can get in trouble with the state. Who, if severe enough, will pull his license.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Youch.


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

I had tried to post before with some pictures, but the forum library blew up and I lost the post








So I'm not typing alot this time. So in a nut shell a few pictures...

One, this was the thing that caused my headache and sickness.










During the cleaning process this 2nd time of flooding, I removed this thing and capped it off.










So now the new extra space can be used for better things


















Rocky


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