# QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis - Correction Added 11/01



## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

I installed a QSI sound decoder in my Genesis #76.  A few weeks ago, I asked for advice on the install.  http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx
Contributing replies were made by  GregE, Bills, sLemcke, & a web reference to a QSI Solutions page was made. There were many valuable explanations and pictures shared.  Rather than place this install log at the end of that thread, I decided to report the installation in this new thread. 
During the install, I kept a log to share.


1.        I removed the side truck frames to make easier access to screws holding the shell to the chassis.  I later figured out that the side frames did not need to be removed.  


2.       The four screws holding the front apron must be removed to gain access to two chassis/shell screws.










3.       Sixteen body mount screws must be removed.  Then the body lifts off.










4.       The third [3rd] of four bulkheads is repositioned to behind the LGB PCB, creating enough room with access for batteries through the lift off smoke stack panel.


5.       Slight trimming of the LGB frame allows oversized Phoenix SP-03 OF. Speaker to be installed.


6.       The LGB PCB retaining screws are removed.   The PCB is moved to the left side of the weight to allow placement of the Gwire board.  The PCB is secured in place with double sided sticky tape.










7.       A momentary push button switch, DPDT switch, and a SPST switch are installed in the moved bulkhead for Volume, Battery/Track Power, and Gwire on/off functions.


8.       A fuse holder was fashioned inline from the positive output of the DPDT to the Track + input of the QSI Magnum board.   


9.       The Gwire board was placed after wires to the ON/OFF SPST switch  were soldered.


10.   The Allelectronics #CON-2410,  10-pin plug was installed into the LGB Decoder plug. 









The QSI Magnum board was wired, speaker and Gwire ON/OFF plugs inserted, and the battery feed/blue-brown  wires from the 10-pin plug supplying track power were connected to the DPDT switch. 









The wiring is illustrated in the following diagram.









A piece of .040 styrene was cut to cover the speaker and make battery installation/removal easier.  The LGB wires leading to the cab, motor and front lights were wire-tied to the styrene.







  

The battery supply harness/distribution block was attached to the bulkhead on top of the smoke unit mounting platform.  A pair of plugs wired in series and a single directly wired plug [green] are provided for different battery pack styles.
  









The Genesis was tested using a Gwire ProCab controller.  At first the lights didn’t work properly.  After reversing the positions on the Magnum board for the RL, FL, Pwr, and Grd, the system as pictured, now works properly.  The bell  [F1], horn [F2], crossing [F3], clank [F4], Alt. horn [F8], and headlight [ON/OFF] all function as expected.  The headlights dim when in reverse.  The reverse lights dim when in forward. The Genesis operates well in RC-Battery mode, RC-Trackpower mode, Analog DC mode, and presumably DCC mode. Overall, I am very pleased with the results.  I hope this write-up will be useful to other Genesis owners.
 Jim Carter


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Wow, you've been busy. I like the push button for sound volume in the bulkhead, it beats finding a magnet when you need one. I am concerned about the wiring information I sent you. It is odd that you needed to reverse the power and ground wires to the adapter plug. I believe that QSI has the head light /rear light reversed in its documentation and I just edit it in the CV variables.


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

The links are broken to some of your pictures


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

fixed, never mind


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Bills,
I really appreciated the info you provided. Otherwise, I probably would have started rewiring from scratch. If you look closely at the 3rd, 4th, & 7th pictures, my notes can be seen [in red on the side frame] concerning how the two motorblock plugs are wired. 
JimC.


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

What sounds are you using?


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Mike Greenwood from Throttle-UP, INC programed this board for me at NGRC. I told him it was to be put into a Genesis and he set it up completely. 

To answer your question.... I don't know for sure. However, having ridden on Amtrak, it does sound right to me.

JimC.


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Jim, 
Really like what you did. Makes me want to try a battery install in my Genesis. Do you have a better picture of the speaker installation? I have been looking for a larger speaker as mine was just 2.5in. The pheonix looks to be about 3.5in and should put out better sound. 
Steve


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Steve,
The Phoenix speaker is 3in. See the attached picture for detail of speaker installation. 










Hope this helps,

JimC.


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Thanks Jim. When do we get to see some pics of the finished product in action? 
Steve


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

I'd be interested too in what sound you're using? Have you posted any videos of this loco with sound?


I know you mentioned not knowing what the sound is but that it sounds like Amtrak to you. I have yet to find any sound systems in any scale that replicates an Amtrak P42 (Genesis) correctly. 

Is the horn correct? It's surprisingly hard to find any sound system with an accurate Amtrak style horn.

Another thing often missing is the distinct "whoop" sound that is made when the compressor starts up.

Engine sounds are usually close since a Genesis sounds somewhat similar to a Dash 9 or other similar GE locos.

The Phoenix Genesis sound is alright, unless you're an avid Amtrak modeler and fan like me. The motor chug and horn are close, but the bell is atrocious. I'm not sure if they have the "whoop" sound, but I bet they don't.



I wish there was an easy way to post three Amtrak sound clips I have that include the Horn, Bell, and "Whoop" to use for demonstrations of what the real locos sound like.


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Ammendment to above installation.

I have been advised to put a 1K resistor in series with each lighting feed that is installed to the QSI Magnum board. 

Per request, here is a pic taken at the Kansas Rail promo to get Amtrak from OKC to KC through Wichita. Location: Great Plains Transportation Museum on the Wichita Viaduct. #93 is an FP-45.










The Postal car was repainted from an RC Cola car. Red and Blue vinyl tape was used on the streamliner consist to cover the "Santa Fe" road names.



JimC.


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Jim 
I believe that if you're using the LGB board you do not need to add the 1 k resitor as the lgb board handles voltage regulation for the lighting. 
Does the vinyl tape damage the lettering on your SF baggage car when you remove the tape?


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Bills,
The vinyl tape does not damage the Santa Fe as long as it is not left on too long or gets too hot. Under those circumstances, you might have to use some WD40 to remove tape residue.
JimC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

The problem is that JC has had the lamps burn out several times. As far as I can figure, the only difference to the lamps is that they are getting full rectified track voltage. If they have burned out several times, the only thing that makes sense is that whatever is on the LGB board to limit the current to the lamps/leds is not working. 

JC, how did you figure the connections for the LGB pins? Can you share the schematic that told you where the pins went? 

Maybe you have somehow bypassed any voltage/current regulation for the lights? 

Regards, Greg


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Jim, 
I would be interested if you had the problem during track power, battery power, or both. Also what is your running voltage. I used the QSI and run at 20V showing on the Massoth central station. I have not had aproblem with my lights. 

Steve


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

To correct a misconception above, the lights have only burnt out once! The burnout occured during operation by track power. The Bridgeworks power supply was set at 20v. After previously working fine using 19.2v NIMH battery packs, the lights quit almost immediately when used with track power.

The cab light is an incandescent bulb. It got hot enough to cause some melting/deforming of the mounting bulkhead. The red lights on both ends of the loco did not burn out. The two headlights, two ditchlights, and one reverse light burnt out. The dash lights and number board lights were not damaged. If you read the previous thread I linked at the top of this thread, you can see where I got the wiring suggestions. Also, I looked at the LGB web page on your site, Greg, as part of my research prior to doing the install. An ohm meter was used to trace the wiring for the track pickups and motor feeds before the posts about the 10pin plug were followed.

The wiring as described above went from the magnum board to the 10pin decoder plug on the LGB main board. There are resistors on each light board so they SHOULD not be needed at the Magnum connections. At this time, I am trying to find a replacement front light board. I repaired the nonworking LED on the reverse light board. Worse case, I will use the existing board for physical placement of new warm white LEDs with all new wiring installed my me, and run directly to the QSI board rather than going through the LGB board. 

Jim Carter


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Jim 
I have been using track power and Qsi and have never lost a light. my MRC DCC booster puts 20 volts on the rail and my DC transformer puts out 24volts. Perhaps swaping the position for unregulated power and ground allowed the full voltage to get to the lamps?


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Bills,
Perhaps that is correct. I'm not sure at this point. I spoke at length with Axel at Train-Li today. We talked circuitry [he is very knowledgeable] and I ordered a new front light board which he had in stock. Axel said that he had previous experience with another brand decoder being hooked up through the LGB board and blowing the light board. 
He suspects that the resistors on the light boards are insufficient to handle the output of the QSI. He suggested the possibility of putting a 5v regulator in the circuit or adding additional resistors to each set of leads. The third suggestion was to directly wire the light boards to the QSI, through resistors instead of going through the LGB board.

JimC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Go direct to the lights, eliminate whatever is the problem. The QSI does not produce weird electricity, it gives you positive voltage and sinks the other side to ground. 

Greg


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

I got a new front lightboard for my Genesis, after the old one burnt out. I need help determining what wire #4 on the 4-pin plug does. The pcb traces appear to have some sort of shunt between pins 3, 4, and the headlight trace. Any assistance would be appreciated. Ultimately, the wiring will be connected to a QSI Magnum board through additional resistors in series.
Thanks,
JimC.









Larger view of traces.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

JC, take a ohmmeter out... I think that the "shunt" was for testing the board, and then they drill a hole, splitting the traces you can see that in several locations. 

(typical manufacturing technique) 

Verify for yourself that 3 & 4 are not directly connectoe together, and neither directly connected to 2 (that looks like your "headlight" trace) 

Regards, Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Oct 2009 12:55 PM 
JC, take a ohmmeter out... I think that the "shunt" was for testing the board, and then they drill a hole, splitting the traces you can see that in several locations. 

(typical manufacturing technique) ...

Greg - I was in Test Engineering for 25 years, and I have never seen this test strategy before. Can you shed some light on it? (I don't want to derail the thread, so if you don't think it is appropriate, just send me an e-mail).


The typical test strategy for more complex boards is In-Circuit test, followed by a full functional test at either the board level, system level, or both. After final test, you don't do anymore operations because you may have screwed something up doing it, and now it isn't tested. This scheme appears to short out all or most of the components, perhaps to just do a simple continuity test of the traces plus wiring? Then you drill the holes. Do you now do another functional test? I don't get it. It must simplify the test setup.


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

To keep the thread on track.......
I tested all six of the contacts with each other using an Ohm meter. Pin4-4 did not seem to have continuity with any other pin.

I wondered if it had something to do with the dimming and brightening of the headlights while running in reverse or during very low voltage startup.

Thanks for the replies.

JimC.


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: QSI w/Gwire into LGB Genesis*

*Important UPDATE: Correction to process.*

If you use the 10pin to LGB decoder plug method described in this thread's original post, *it is NECESSARY for a resistor to be placed inline* [1k] on each of the wires going to the headlight, reverselight, and ground connections on the QSI Magnum board. Failure to use these resistors can result in melted plastic and/or burnt out LEDs in the LGB cab, front and rear light boards. Apparantly, when using the 10pin plug, the 5v regulator supplying light boards in the LGB PCB is bypassed, allowing full track or battery power to go directly to the Light boards. Addition of resistors as described above is a solution to the problem.

After burning out the headlight and reverselight LEDs, I decided to completely rewire the Genesis, eliminating the original LGB PCB. In the very near future, a report of the new install will be posted in a separate thread.

Jim Carter


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Jim,

This is a very interesting topic. Now you have me wondering what could be done with other LGB locos with the DCC Interface especially now that Marklin has announced new Forneys, Moguls and a Uintah Mallet with a DCC Interface.

Jerry


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

Jim 
I've been running the LGB with QSI in 6 Genisis locos without the resistors for over a year now with no problem. When I get a chance I'll check with my meter. I've also converted several f7s to DCC using Digitrax and the older socket without any issues. 
Bill


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