# Wiring passenger cars for battery operation?



## noela (May 22, 2008)

We are getting set to wire some passenger car sets so they can run off of battery power, as track power is not an option. We have come up with a plan that we think will work, but wanted to throw it out here to see if anybody else has had similar projects. As you may know, Dallee has come out with a long lighting board that several people have expressed interest in. These boards (there are 3 different versions) will allow for LED lighting in the longer Aristo-Craft and USAT passenger cars.
It is my intention to use power from the battery that provides power for the locomotive (battery car), and connect the cars in the consist with wires. In my applications, I do not anticipate the startup current to exceed 1 amp, and the running current would be around .2 amp. I want to keep the connecting of these cars as simple as I can, and am seeking input on recommendations on wire size, sources for flexible wire, and connectors that will do the trick without being overly obtrusive.
Thank you.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have aristo streamlinger cars. 8 in all. The ones I have have incandesent bulbs. I got plugs like you see on the Aristo Craft Engines for battery power. I got them from All Electronics. On my Aristo Craft Streamliner Cars I took the wires off the Wheel contacts on the trucks where they lights normally would get thier power. Plulled them back into the car and spliced the plugs I got from All Electronics on to the wire from the trucks. I then mued the cars like you would mue engines. This worked very well. The mue wire hides in the bellows between cars. On the new cars that have the LED strips you can do the same. 
Since the LED draws substantially less curent. You can get by with a battery under each car. Probably two double "A"s about 3 volts. Under my Aristo Craft cars there is a box that looks like a speaker box that would hold the battery easaly. So in general that is not a complecated task.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Locally I found superflex wire at the R/C airplane store. 

I think you'll waste too much juice stepping down the voltage from your loco's batteries. Instead how about a small pack of rechargables in the baggage car or one or two batts under each car? With LEDs they should last a long time between changes. 

One of my least favorite chores is plugging connectors together as I make up a train, I like to keep the wires short and try to hide them, but my fingers are fat... nuff said! With each car supplying it's own power, no mu'ing and no wasted juice. No worries about polarity (some connectors can go together backwards) and you'll see a car dim easy enough to know which gets fresh batteries. 

John


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Noel... Just another thought...

The Dallee Passenger Car Lighting Boards are rated at maximum input voltage is 25 volts AC, 35 volts DC so using the onboard main locomotive battery should be no problem at all..... 

I would think you could just daisy chain the wiring between each car and away you go. I've done something similar to this with 4 of my USA Overton coaches and it works fine. That way I don't have to mess with charging or changing individual packs when they discharge.

Just my thoughts.


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Thank you for the information.
The new boards draw initially 7 volts and .15 amps to start and 7 boards will run at .138 amps at 17 volts. Self contained AA cells would be prohibitive in terms of space and current/voltage requirements, whereas the 18-22 volt battery packs would have more than enough juice to run the loco and the cars. the connections are my primary concern, needing flexible wire and unobtrusive connectors that can carry up to 1 amp of surge current.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Try this site could be some help. http://www.girr.org/girr/


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Noel.... These are the connectors I've been using for many years with great success... 2 Pin connectors

Imagehttp://www.allelectronics.com/mas_a...ad98b697ae20fe4a4122db7a059c,1089,con_240.jpg


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Noel, I recently did what you're wanting to do. Check out this post.
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx
I used Miniatronics Connectors
http://www.miniatronics.com/Merchan...ory_Code=4


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I've no idea what Dallee charges for these, but I'm betting that at $7.50 each, this is a cheaper alternative.

24"-long, 24 volt White LED Strips


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

At that price, it's worth the trouble to color the LEDs if they are too white. 

I wonder if it would be easy to rewire them to a different voltage. 

I've decided I'm building my own using the CL2 current sources, no resistors, etc. 

Todd (or anyone else), have you found a source for those small flat pack LEDs that surface mount and have 120 degree dispersal. One thing about regular leds is they really put out a beam, not a nice diffused light like a incandescent bulb. 

Regards, Greg


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I purchased several light strips from All Electronics as noted above by Todd, last year for the aforementioned application... They are a bit bright and WHITE too. Coloring them would be a prerequisite and eliminating some of the LED's maybe be appropriate IMO. I never went anywhere with this project, put it on the back burner waiting its turn. 


How does one color the LED to emulate incandescent or warm glow lighting? 
I’m pondering replacing the LED’s with some warm glow LED’s I purchased that have a wider than typical dispersion pattern, but if I go here I may as well implement my own design lighting system, perhaps I could locate the LED's in the scale locations too.


Michael


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09 Oct 2010 07:55 PM 
At that price, it's worth the trouble to color the LEDs if they are too white. 

I wonder if it would be easy to rewire them to a different voltage. 

I've decided I'm building my own using the CL2 current sources, no resistors, etc. 

Todd (or anyone else), have you found a source for those small flat pack LEDs that surface mount and have 120 degree dispersal. One thing about regular leds is they really put out a beam, not a nice diffused light like a incandescent bulb. 

Regards, Greg 

"Dimmable."
"Use on 12V with a little modification
These strips are made up of 4 parallel strings of 6 LEDs with a 100-ohm resistor at each end. It's only a few minutes' work to modify this layout to 8 sets of 3 LEDs, so you can use a 12-volt supply."


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

WOW!! What a helpful group. I have seen many alternatives in the past couple of days, and I really appreciate it.
Now I have one final quest (I hope), finding a source for those 120 degree diodes, if possible in warm white and bright white. They would be the epitome of spreading the light over a broader area. I know it has been asked before during this particular discussion, but, I too, would love to know where to get them.
Again, thank you for all your great help.

Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You are asking for what I said I was searching for...

I'm looking for a source for the LEDs these guys use: *http://www.theledlight.c...trong>**

I have not contacted them, I have purchased the strips, they are great, but expensive:

This with the LED strips:









vs. stock lighting with bulbs










When I find what I want, I will put about 6 in series with a special IC that is a fixed 20 MA current limiter, or I may use 2 strings of 6 in parallel, since 20 ma is probably going to be too bright.

doing this might wind up using 20 milliamps per car vs almost an amp, a huge reduction.

So that's my plan. When I find the right LEDs I'll post.

Regards, Greg*


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By noela on 10 Oct 2010 09:14 AM 
Now I have one final quest (I hope), finding a source for those 120 degree diodes, if possible in warm white and bright white. They would be the epitome of spreading the light over a broader area. I know it has been asked before during this particular discussion, but, I too, would love to know where to get them.
Again, thank you for all your great help.

Noel 



You could CA a lucite rod across the row of LEDs and this will glow in all directions while diffusing the light. You could even add some "color" to the rod.


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## Don Gage (Jan 4, 2008)

I have had good luck diffusing LED's by grinding the dome using a small belt sander, or a file, or jeweler's saw and sand paper. The best results are obtained by flattening the dome then scratching it with sand paper. The flatter the surface area of the dome, the more diffusion.
Just a thought,

Don


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I wanted the fastest easiest way, but I also learned from my experience above, I want the lowest profile, notice that the stock lighting is visible through the clerestory windows? 

I just want to tack the LEDs together with fine wire and hot glue them to the inside of the roof. On the usat cars, I think I can use the existing wiring, and cut through the traces where appropriate. 

I know the dispersion of these LEDs is great, again as evidenced by the photo above, all the light goes down. Not sure how you are thinking of attaching a domed LED to a clear rod, but it would not disperse the light lengthwise the same as point source with a 120 degree conical dispersion. 

Not saying it's not a good idea, but sounds like more work than just buying the right LEDs to begin with. SMD LEDs are commonplace, now that I have done some searching between this post and my last one, now I want to find the warm white ones. 

Regards, Greg


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

Don't know if anything here would be close???

LEDs[/b]


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Back before I quit posting technical threads, I posted threads on lighting Aristo Streamliners individually using 3v maglight bulbs and batteries in the undercarrage, Lighting Aristo Sierra cars with stock bulbs by MUing together with a battery in the combine, and lighting Aristo Heavyweight cars MUd together w/battery in baggage car w/individual and strip LEDs.



















Although the OEM Aristo bulbs are shown in the below picture, they were disconnected from the truck pickups.


















Sierra's









Heavyweights













































Note warm white LED strip in cabinet drawer. Four sections of three LEDs were used in the cars.









Some of the threads were under the old Archives. Some may be in current. Feel free to search.

I hope this helps. 

Jim Carter


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice work JC! 

Steve, those are the right package sizes, but not the right 120 degree dispersion... on one of them it is indicated the light is 20 degrees... 

They are out there, I just have to find them. 

Regards, Greg


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't know if this will help or not,

But I too have been searching for LED strips with Surface Mount Warm White LEDs. After multiple Google searches I finally found some that might work and are available in warm white. They have both rigid and flexible strips. I was looking for the smallest possible strips as I was intending to do this for HO scale. I have yet to order any of these so I can't comment on how well they work. But they might be worth looking into.


Here's the link:

LED Strips 


Seems expensive, but I haven't really priced this compared to anything else.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, that's where I started, but you see they do not sell the individual LEDs, just the assemblies... 

I'll find the source... it's out there... 

Thanks, Greg


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Didn't realize you wanted just the LED.

There are tons of suppliers out there for the 3528 LED in warm white. The 3528 is the surface mount housing that has a 120 viewing angle. eBay has a bunch. Did a quick search and found 100 for 99 cents!



Just search for warm white 3528 LED and you'll find them.

A slightly larger LED is the 5050. This one has a 130 viewing angle. More expensive then the 3528 though. Found 50 for $12.99




I purchased some of these cheap LEDs on eBay before for use in an HO passenger car. I went with super bright white to simulate the prototype bluish lighting. I used the very small surface mount 1206 LED. Looked great when finished. But these small LEDs are really tough to solder. This is why I'm looking for them on the strip. So much easier.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, that's where I have been going, looks like the standard for the 5050 package is 3 chips on one carrier and 60 ma each... was hoping to find lower current and less light... 

Looks like the 3528 are what I want for brightness and low current.... I did find the strips for $5 a meter, that's pretty cheap... maybe go with that and rewire for lower current. 

5 meters is 2 amps at 12 volts.. .4 amps per car approx, but I wire 2 in series, so should be able to get it to .2 amps... my goal is much less than that... like 20 - 40 ma...

(This is because how they are wired 3 in series and a dropping resistor)... I think I can rewire to 6 in series and a current regulator... possibly 2 sets of 6 in parallel... 


The battery guys should love that... 

Regards, Greg


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

What about something like this?

5m Warm White SMD 3528 600 LED Flexible LED Strip Lamp[/b]


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,
Your link is the LED strip laying in the drawer below the car in my last picture. 

They have gone up in price $3 since I bought mine.

JimC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Like I said, I found them for $5 a meter, i.e. $25 for 5 meters, that price is $40 for 5 meters... 

http://www.aliexpress.com/product-f...-3528-Flexible-300-LED-Strip-wholesalers.html 

Regards, Greg


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