# Can't keep my spikes down



## tblack007 (Apr 1, 2010)

I built a few turnouts last year and after only one season in the garden some of the spikes have begun to rise up. I'm using cedar for my ties and gave them a good application of a water sealant before I spiked the rails. The ties are weathering nicely and aren't splitting but a good percentage of the black, 1/2" spikes aren't sitting nice and tight anymore.

I was hoping someone out there might have found a way to avoid this problem. I'm planning to build a few more turnouts over the winter months but I'm reluctant to finish them.


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

if you can use "spikes" long enough to bend them over on the bottom side they cannot come loose. I have actually used mini nails which are longer. one trick I have seen is to use staples of a suitable size driven up through and bent over the rail flange


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Use steel, not stainless steel and water them until they rust into the wood. 

From the other current thread on Track Spikes. 

Happy Rails 

John


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I personally wouldn't put the water sealant on before you spike the rail either. I've had a few spikes pop up over 3-4 years, but nothing to major. As John pointed out, be sure to use steel spikes so they rust into the rail. After 6 years some of my old track had quite a few spikes that were rusted in pretty good. 
I use 3/8" spikes from ME. 

Craig


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

When I built my switches i predrilled the holes then put a touch of glue on the end of the spike then drove it in haven't had a problem with them coming out.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Use steel 
I agree. They rust and grab the wood. 

Llagas uses plastic ties which are slippy, so they use long spikes and bend them over underneath.


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## tblack007 (Apr 1, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice. Are there any spikes longer than 1/2" available for code 250 rails? I've tried bending the ends over but haven't had much success as the end doesn't protrude very far. The spike tends to just push into the wood without really bending over. 
The black spikes I've been using are rusting nicely but up here in the Pacific Northwest, I'm wondering if the amount of rain we get is a factor in this problem.


Again, thanks for the feedback and advice.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

How much are your spikes coming up? My layout was in the Bremerton,WA area so I know what your talking about regarding a lot of water. I found that the areas that didn't drain well seemed to be the areas that the spikes came up. How are well is your drainage? Are you predrilling your holes at all? If so that might be why they are tending to pop up too. Are you worried that the spikes will take the track of of gauge as well? 


Craig


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## tblack007 (Apr 1, 2010)

My drainage is pretty good. Lots of gravel for the steer all the rain into french drains. With the rainfall totals in Portland, OR, I spent time planning a drainage system before I began building anything. 
The rising spike issue seems to be spread out sporadically through most of my turnouts. The spikes have risen anywhere from becoming loose to approx 1/8". I haven't noticed any issues with the rails coming out of gauge so far. This has me perplexed as bridges and structures I have built using small nails have not had this issue and they have been in the outdoors many more years than my turnouts. 

Tim


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

When I was using spikes on my track and switches, they always popped up on me, even if they rusted. I think the main reason is that spikes didn't go all the way through the wood tie and out the other side. There is enough area on the spike end with ice and water to push on to push out the spike. I understand that for the same reason, when new roof shingles are put on a roof, it is important to use nails long enough to go all the way through all the roofing layers and the wood so the nails don't pop out. 

I went to a different system using flat head nails. I actually drill a hole through the foot of the rail and halfway through the tie. Then I drive a nail through the rail and tie and it pokes out long enough on the underside and I Clinch it over. I only need to use two nails per tie instead of four spikes. In my semiarid climate, this type of track construction lasts about 20 years until the redwood ties rot away. The ties spend most the their time on top of the ballast not down in it, or they would rot away much faster. The clinch nails never really let go. 

Terl


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I pre-rusted my spikes and then put a dab of E-6000 on the end before spiking. These haven't budge in 3 years. Others that I did not rust and did not glue come loose every year.


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