# GP9's Reworked



## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

For some time now I've been planning to rework a couple of USA Trains GP9's to represent to NAR GP9's that used to run around northern Alberta. Dave Winter did a model of one back in 2008, (See Winter Valley Railway) this is what provided the motivation for me to finally get going on this project. I did get started last October, but have had several interruptions since then. I think I can now see my way clear to get these engines completed. I still have some detailing issues to get resolved, but I don't think I need to hold the project back any longer. So here we go...again.










I should clarify that I have nothing against the Santa Fe Railroad, it's just that I managed to get these two engines at a very good price. 










As I'll be installing a battery pack, receiver unit and a sound system, much of the electronics I remove will be redundant. I will also install LED lighting.










Bath time!! I may have saved some cash on the purchase of these engines, but I can assure you I paid the price in removing the paint.










The dynamic brake hood and fan are removed and the smaller fans filled in. These will be replaced by one of the 48 inch dynamic brake fans at each end. The steam generator breather and exhaust will also be removed and filled in.

More later.
cheers.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like an interesting project. What did you use to remove the USA paint? Eventually one of these days I'll get around to doing something similar with a GP30. 

Craig


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Craig, I use 91% alcohol to strip locos.. and cars too! CVS pharmacy sells the stuff pretty cheap too! 

Dirk


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

If there is anybody else out there who is planning to do this to a Blue and yellow Santa Fe GP-9. I'd be happy to pay the postage both ways for an exchange of bodies. I have the War bonnet colour scheme of the USAT GP-9.............................
Rod


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

I should have added Dave Winter's link for his winter valley railway. It is http://www.wvrr.ca/
Also, a very good reference I've been using is The Northern Alberta Railways by Keith Hansen, M.A.
Cheers.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Dirk,
Thanks for providing the information I should have provided. The only issue with the alcohol is the fumes, it certainly gives me a headache.
I also use a tooth brush for cleaning the hard to get to places. I imagine an electric tooth brush would work well, but I don't want to use my own and I sure don't want to get caught using someone else's.
Cheers.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Well I really have to get the lead out on this project as the engines are scheduled to run on July 1st.
Here's an update.










The inserts are 0.125" thick plasticard glued and epoxy reinforced on the inside so they stay in place during machining for the larger (ex dynamic brake) fan.










This shows one of the fans fitted. I had to purchase two more dynamic brake assemblies from USA trains parts department, who I might add were very helpful.
The original rear horn location hole was also filled in as these engines had a triple horn assembly.










The small recess at each side locates the fans. The upper one required more bondo and sanding after priming.










This shows the steam heater vent and breather filled in and the bell installed. The bell was made of brass and the mounting pasticard. 
The sole plates were not stripped of paint, but rather painted over. The yellow will be repainted a lighter yellow and the blue diamond plate painted black.
More later.
Cheers.


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## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

This looks really great! I hope to be able to the same to some of my engines to more closely match the SP's versions of engines. I stripped an SF red/silver warbonnet GP9 with 90% alcohol to make it an SPSF kodachrome and yeah...stripping the paint is a fun job (NOT).


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Harvey, your welcome! 

I built a simple long, heavy-duty card board box and lined it with a H.D. trash bag to "hold" the Alcohol ( no leaks ) - which used the least amount of liquid this way also, for stripping parts and bodies. It has a "lid,.. to contain the odor" and slows down evaporation also!!! 

Use a tooth brush, a "used" one that is, when do you replace your tooth brush,..? or just buy a new one for cleaning trains with!!!! 

I also use a wood handled Stainless steel stiff brush for cleaning tuff areas - both in the 91 % and during rinse cycles too! 

Like your work!! 

Dirk


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

These are a couple of photographs of the pilot modifications I've done.
I made the pilots late last year for another GP9, but also made some extra for these engines at the same time. 
There is quite a bit of detailing to do yet at these ends, but they're coming along.



















They use the same location posts as the USA trains couplers.
I did try a Kadee 835, but to me it didn't look right or does it look like an original as found on the full sized engines. This modification takes the Kadee 830 which i seem to have standardized on.



















Both sole plates are the same and the same at each end. The chevrons took a lot of masking tape, but generally turned not bad as long as you don't look too close.
More later.
Cheers.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

A couple suggestions for the coupler issue. 1st Kadee has recently released a more to scale coupler. 2nd (and my first choice) would be to use a Accucraft 1/32 coupler. Yes they are to big for 1/32, but they scale out right to 1/29. As an added bonus the Accucraft couplers have a top pin lifter, much like a locomotive does. It still doesn't have the interlocking shelf like the prototype, but it's the closest you can get. A 3rd option (and I don't know if these are still available) is a 1/29 metal coupler for Ozark Miniatures. They were designed by John McGuyer, but I don't see them listed online or in the catalog. 

The pilot modifications look great. Do you know what radius the new couplers will take now? I'll add to that O scale glad hands work great for MU glad hands. See dirks thread about his locomotive build for more information.

Craig


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

boy i like those ends


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Harvey. 

Thanks for the visit over on the DDA40X build thread. I'll add some more today! And respond to the multi-motor ideas also! 

Any recent work here? 

Dirk


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Graig,
Thanks for the information on the couplers and the lead to Dirks glad hand information. I really didn't know they were fitted in different directions.
I'll check with our local club to see if anyone is using some of the coupler options you noted. As for mine, as I said I have standardized on the Kadee 830, but will look into the upgraded version they have brought out.
All of the models I build or rebuild are designed to take a 7' 6" radius, which is the tightest radius I have on my layout and wouldn't you know it, it's on the main.
Cheers.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Craig,
Sorry about the name spelling, hopefully I can improve as this thread moves ahead!
Here are some photo's of the body painting, which is really an exercise in masking.









The whole body section is painted in a light gray primer before adding any colour.
This is the masking for the blue. You can see on the right the outline for the diamond logo.










The yellow was painted next. Unfortunately the blue is all covered with masking in this photo.










With the yellow and blue covered the gray is next. I painted right over the marker lights and scraped the paint off after drying.
Cheers.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By harvey on 14 May 2012 02:11 PM 
Hello Graig,
Thanks for the information on the couplers and the lead to Dirks glad hand information. I really didn't know they were fitted in different directions.
I'll check with our local club to see if anyone is using some of the coupler options you noted. As for mine, as I said I have standardized on the Kadee 830, but will look into the upgraded version they have brought out.
All of the models I build or rebuild are designed to take a 7' 6" radius, which is the tightest radius I have on my layout and wouldn't you know it, it's on the main.
Cheers.

I looked and looked and couldn't find the Ozark couplers listed on their website so I guess they stopped producing them. Ordered 6, and I've only completed one. They look great, but I don't think they would work good over time. Kadee or the Accucraft ones will be my main choice. If you want I can post a picture of the glad hands that I've got finished for my GP9 project (what is it with GP9's?  ? The MU glad hands are in different directions so that you don't cross them. It wouldn't be good to get 140 psi into the independent line.







That said the independent and actuating line get mixed up often as well, hence the requirement for a locomotive airbrake test.

Craig


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Those locos are really looking great Harvey, can't wait to see them when they are all painted. Keep up the great work. 

Chris


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

i like the nose did you make the bell & bracket?


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Dick,
Yes I made the bell and bracket. Originally they were made for a pair of GP-30's I have to rework, but I made six altogether so this saved some time.
The bells are brass and the ringer (gong) is a 0.032 brass rod with a lump of solder on the end. The top of the bell is bolted to the plasticard bracket with a 10BA bolt.
I've just reworked the horns so they are all facing the same direction and in the right order. I also reinforced these with a brass rod through the centre of each horn.
It seems to me I'm all over the map on this rebuild, but things are starting to come together. The devil is in the details I guess.
I have to make the Peacock brakes stands for the 'B' end as these engines didn't have the crank style typically found on GP-9's. I think when these are done it'll be a matter of completing the electronics and putting all the details on the ends. Sounds simple doesn't it.
Cheers.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Craig,
By all means post your pictures. It's nice to share our projects with other members, but I think it's also important to share the information we gather in the process of doing these projects.
With regards to the popularity of the GP-9's I think many railways would buy them again if they were reintroduced. They were as successful for the manufacture as they are for USA Trains.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

You guys "R" gonn'a make me get one aren't YOU!!!! 

But,.. it will have to be a SD-9 for the work loads here!!! 

And come in BN colors even!!! 

Can you do that? 

I also just got a GP-38 cab/hood, to be built on a SD40-2 frame, in CN colors!! Wow, different stuff here!! 


Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

GP-9 in BN - r out of stock....mmm,.. bad 

But, could get a W.P. unit, will run that here in the future also! 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's some pictures of the coupler from Ozark. 
















This is how the parts came as I ordered it unbuilt. A little bit of flashing to clean up, but if you remove to much the coupler doesn't work right. 








Out of the 6 that I ordered, I only have 1 that is completed, and even at that it doesn't open or close that smoothly. They look great, but they don't work great. Also included is a tiny spring that the pin lifter sits on to hold the coupler closed. The larger black spring is placed on the back of the coupler, and then placed in the draft gear box, and it creates a tiny bit of movement. Not alot. 
This is the one and only that I've gotten installed. Even so, I don't like the looks of it, and will be stripping it out. 









These would look much better as a trackside detail in a shop area, or to use the knuckles as a detail on the locomotive in the knuckle rack. 

Craig


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's the MU hoses.This is the stock USA MU hoses









Here's mine.








The main res. line should be slightly longer then the other two lines, and face the opposite direction. I added hex nuts to represent where they get screwed into.

These are the parts as they come. I trying to decided if I want to really super detail the locomotive and add all the underside piping and valve handles.







As you can see the glad hands will stick together, but they don't come that way. Now if someone could figure out a way to make these 'live' along with the MU cable then we would be talking about prototypical modeling.








And finally the USA MU cables, mine, and then the USA brake line.









See how the USA glad hands are the same size? Now I have to figure out if the narrow gauge (1.20-24) glad hands would work well to represent the trainline glad hands.


Craig


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Craig,
I can see the last picture, but none of the others.
I think the front and rear ends on any locomotive are worth the detailing effort. Whenever I complete a project, I often give the others a critical eye and more often than not they end up being scheduled for a rework.
Thanks again.
Cheers.
Now I see them...thanks


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey, 
Yep for some reason when I first posted the HTML code got a messed up. I fixed it after a couple of edits. 

Craig 

Edit-
Here's a good view of real MU hoses. I guess I should have use a smaller hex head.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By harvey on 12 May 2012 02:32 PM 
These are a couple of photographs of the pilot modifications I've done.
I made the pilots late last year for another GP9, but also made some extra for these engines at the same time. 
There is quite a bit of detailing to do yet at these ends, but they're coming along.



















They use the same location posts as the USA trains couplers.
I did try a Kadee 835, but to me it didn't look right or does it look like an original as found on the full sized engines. This modification takes the Kadee 830 which i seem to have standardized on.



















Both sole plates are the same and the same at each end. The chevrons took a lot of masking tape, but generally turned not bad as long as you don't look too close.
More later.
Cheers.
I forgot to say before those pilots would make a nice casting. Do you have any drawings or any information about how you constructed them? Now I want to modify my pilots too!


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

These are the 'new' Kadees. 
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page900-1900.htm 
Thread about the Accucraft couplers with a couple of pictures to compare the old Kadee to the Accucraft. 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...f/14/aft/114896/afv/topic/afpg/2/Default.aspx


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Modify pilots you say! Start a "Special Interest Group" of Modified Pilots.... 

Here is a SD70, with added details as have been discussed here. I used a larger air line on the inboard line - as seen in your pic Craig. But not paying attention to the glad hands see how they turned out, but not around!! ha.. The plow was modified also, and the pilot area built up to look better. As this was my 1st loco for these efforts - I used a KD replacement unit with a off-set shank... will be the only one, it has survived dragging the loco backwards so will leave it alone... inside the mount area was beeefed up also... 

 

A better shot of the overall plow, coupler pilot and airlines. 

 

On My current SD60T, this is the rear coupler to date. The top white plastic even has the slight curve for the coupler to follow, which shows poorly here. This also uses a straight shank coupler, for better appearances and pulling...

 

Making a mold would be cool, Tho I think I would tend to want to spend mold time for difficult parts. These are pretty easy to fab out.. 

WE need more input on the airlines Craig. BIG help!!!! thx 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 16 May 2012 07:17 PM 


Making a mold would be cool, Tho I think I would tend to want to spend mold time for difficult parts. These are pretty easy to fab out.. 

WE need more input on the airlines Craig. BIG help!!!! thx 

Dirk 
DMS Ry. 

What else do you want to know? If I was to make a master it would have to be perfect!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

in the group of 3 lines, there is a main res. line, the longer line, which also appears to be a heavier hose.. 

What are the other 2 hoses for? The smaller ones... 
...& why are there two sets on each side of a loco, 

What does the train line hose do? The single main largest hose... 

Dirk


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh boy your in for a lesson.







Don't have the time to explain right now, but trust me I'll let you know. Anything and everything you wanted and didn't want to know


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Here are a couple of My research loco pics showing airlines ... 

 

This second photo really points out the facing directions of the glad hands, for both sides of a loco... not mirror images at all...both sides the same... 

 

Let the lessons begin... 

Dirk


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

That's really beautiful work. A prize winner in the making. 

Your doing far better than I ever had the patience, or the skill, to accomplish and I envy you no end. I'm afraid my sad philosophy on detail was developed over a quarter century in N scale. "Make it look ok - at first glance". I never could get out of that bad habit. 

So I've kept up with the progress on here and I finally got up the nerve to post this thread off to John Green. I'm hoping he doesn't make me do his NAR GP9 all over again. Lordy lordy! Just masking for those decals was a very special kind of ****. 

Next time then (A CN Safety cab installation) I may actually get a lot closer the prototype.

Struggle on. 

Dave


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey,
Sorry for derailing your thread!









Dirk,

I took your image and labeled the different lines. 









I'll start on the engineers side and work my way across. The first line is the independent line. This line is has air between 0-72 psi. This line controls the locomotive brakes only between each locomotive. The next line is the Actuating and Release line, also between 0-72 psi. This is the line that has air in it when you make a trainline application and release or actuate the locomotive brakes so the locomotives don't slide. The next line is the Main Res. line between 0-120-140 psi. This connects all the locomotive's air compressors and tanks in to 1 giant compressor/tank that feeds the equalizing reservoir, when then feeds the train line. The train line is the next single line and that is between 0-90psi. Then as you move over the to fireman's side the MAI lines are repeated. Now for a train to be MU'ed correctly airline wise, only 1 of each lines needs to be connected. So you could lace the Main Res on the fireman's side, and then only lace the I&A on the engineers side. In the summer time you will more often see only 1 side connected instead of both sides. In the wintertime certain restrictions apply and both sides must be connected. A locomotive air brake test tests that the A&I lines are not crossed and will function correctly. Now I've added on the engineers side of the drawing additional lines that were used on the first (and maybe 2nd?) generation diesels. They are the sandline, horn, and bell line. I could be wrong about the location and number of these lines, but these were all controlled via the air lines. Now they are controlled via the MU cable (27pin). Here's the other funny thing. The angle cock for the train line when it is 90 degrees to the pipe it's closed, inline with the pipe air is flowing thru the gladhand. The MU hoses are opposite. In line is closed, 90 degrees to the pipe is open.

The main res. hose is slightly longer, and thicker in diameter then the A&I lines. Think about why they wouldn't be mirror images...

Craig


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Well well, did we ever get derailed, but it's all good information and I will need to make up a file for the information that's been pouring into this topic.
As for Dave Winter, sorry Dave there's no sympathy for you, you started all this. 
With regards to detailing and getting it right I do try and have to admit that I do make some blunders. My locomotives are numbered #203 and #206, #206 is fine, but #203 is not, more about that later, but for the moment it looks as though they'll be a #209.
Here are some updates on the electrical side of things.










The rectangular cradle is for locating the phoenix sound system. By doing this it's held securely in place, also I drill a 7/16" hole through the base plate inside the cradle area to give some ventilation to the sound module as some parts do get quite warm. The wire connection located in the base plate is for programing the sound system. I need to delete the horn from #206 as this will be the B unit. The other supports are for the train engineer and the holes for the wiring of course. With all the light wiring installed it will get quite busy in here.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Good thinking.

A little forethought sure gets things nice and neat. I expect you were pretty familiar with both the sound and the receiver/decoder before you started this. I'm looking forward to seeing this project through to the end.

Thanks for sharing

Dave


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Dave,
I did a CPR GP9 two years ago and although I didn't post what I had done I received all kinds of feed back from those that "know about such things"
The road number is 8526, so it has the steam heater, well that's fine, but it also needs the Beaver Crest on the front to identify it as such and air tanks on the roof. Who Knew?? Certainly not me. The Beaver Crest is now on and the air tanks are in the mail from USAT. So this one is coming in for a rework which will also include new pilots. 
In the mean time the NAR units are moving ahead.










These are the horns getting switched around. I used 3/64 brass rod for reinforcements and epoxy cement to set them.











This shows the bell location and marker flag brackets that I added. On the CPR GP9 I installed green and red market lights, on the NAR's I'll use white and red as I've only ever seen one photograph of a train using the green lights.










These are still empty shells at this stage, but I thought worthy of a visit to the dining room table for an official photograph.
The decals are from G-Scale graphics and as can bee seen need a little more work to get them sat down around the vents. I don't see this as being a problem.
Can you imagine, I'm actually thinking of doing another one. I'll certainly qualify for the NUTS designation when I get started.










Still lots to do from here, but we're progressing every day.
Cheers.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

looking really good, and i really like the bell and bracket


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Those are GREAT looking locos Harvey! I really like all of the detail work you have gone to, makes them stand out. 

Chris


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yep, You do great work Harvey, nice set - and you want one more eh!?? 

I ordered some glad hands and airline parts from the mentioned P&D Hobby Shop, just to see what ya get! 

Three types we can use here, with numbers also. 

item #5676 

 

 item #4729 

 

item #4050 

 

will see what a little detail work will result from these! 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Dirk,
It looks as though the ends at least would be very useful. I would like the hoses to be flexible, so I think I'll get some and see what I can do with them.
Thanks for sharing this with us all.
Cheers


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Your right Harvey, flexible hoses are nicer to look at! 

I used wire with multi-strands. I would cut it over length and strip one end a bit - them pull a few strands out at a time till they got loose enough to all come out. Then cut the insulation to the size needed and glue it to a glad hand and the base fittings at the loco end sheet...Wire in different gauges can be used for large and small air hoses also! These also flex if "hit" accidentally.. :~} 

Also some of the plastic ones I just heated and gently bent into a relaxed shape, and when complete hand painted black and silver. Now I think I need to use a more grey color, rather than silver for the glad hands.!! 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

The ones I bought came with a a small piece of rubberish type of hose that I could cut to length. But stripping some wire insulation would be an easy solution if they didn't come with it. 

Craig


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## Rail Planet (Jan 22, 2012)

Or just some heat-shrink tubing, right?


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Rail Planet on 22 May 2012 06:19 PM 
Or just some heat-shrink tubing, right? 
Heat shrink tubing has too thin of a wall if I remember correctly, and the stuff that comes with the glad hands has about twice the wall thickness. Wire insulation is has a thicker wall as well.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

With regards to the Glad-hands, I've looked at the supply of P & D Hobby Shop and unless I missed something their products are O scale. These might look a little undersized I think. I'm thinking I'll have a go at making some scratch built parts for these and see how that works out.
Anyway, moving on, here are a couple of pictures of the light wiring. I've toyed with the idea of installing safety lighting, but I'm not sure if that would be going a bit overboard. Maybe this would be a good upgrade when I run out of things to do.










The head light and marker light wiring are connected with six pin connectors so that I can completely separate the body from the frame.










I do reinstall the smoke fans, but I don't wire them. My reason for doing this, is that if I'm going to have diesel that smokes I want to make sure it "really smokes" and not blow out these intermittent white puffs. 

I'm working on the handrails now and the Peacock hand brake assembly. On these hand brakes does anyone know what the big, and I mean big, slotted screw on the front is for. I'm guessing you need a four foot long screwdriver to fit this.
More later,
Cheers.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey, 
Yes they are undersized and are for O scale, but they work just right for the MU hoses, not the train line glad hand. The MU hoses are smaller then the trainline hose. So it looks right. I WOULD NOT use them to model the TRAIN LINE GLAD HAND. 


Got a picture of the part for the hand brake your talking about? I might know if I can see a picture.

Craig


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I googled Peacock and brake and came across this drawing. http://www.rpca.com/pdfs/peacockhandbrake.pdf


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

harvey 
like your wiring, 
but one thought you might want to stay away from the smoke units they can get quite hot.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting that you've got your wiring nicely tucked up inside the shell rather than spread out all over the frame. A flash of genius for sure. Wish USAT and others did that at the factory.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Craig,
I looked at the link you posted, but these are the crank type. 
This is the type I was referring too.










I'm messing around with a couple at the moment, but need to spend a little more time on them.










I don't think the big screw will look that big once they're painted. The wheel is the very top of a felt tip marker pen which gives me a three inch over scale size, but they do look alright on the engines. These marker pen caps are made from nylon so they create a lot of hairs when filing and sanding. This should come off with a couple of coats of paint then re-sanding before a final coat. I know it looks a bit rough in this picture.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey, 
I'm thinking it's an adjustment screw for the handbrake. Either to take up slack in the chain or to give more slack. Or it could be an adjustment screw not to over crank the handbrake... I know the goat chaser (guy who drives around inspecting yard engines that don't go the roundhouse on a regular basis) had to adjust handbrakes every once in a while on the SW1200 and GP's that we switched with. So my guess is some sort of adjustment thingy. 

By the way the handbrakes look really good! 

Craig


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

The photograph below shows the bodies finally attached to the base plate after several times on and off. I couldn't get the number boards to look right and try as I may with the help of both Dave Winter and Dave Meashey they just didn't look right. I turned to Stan Cedarleaf for help and he came through with a set of decals to apply over the lens. To apply these I masked off the inner and outer surface and pained the assembly black. I then removed the masking (something you get good at with these engines) and applied the decals. To me they looked great, but I still had a glare problem from the LED's. I resolved this by painting over the LED bulb with flat white paint and went further by inserting two layers of 0.010" opaque plastic between the bulb and the number board. This worked for me, but what turned out even better than expected is that as we know on these full sized locomotives they use a canvas for the number boards or at least they used to. This tends to crack over time and let the light through the black area. This is what I'm getting and it's really noticeable in the dark. So overall I'm very pleased with the result.
The handrail modifications were not as difficult as I thought they would be. I made the connection with the USAT long handrails at the first vertical post by cutting the handrail at the support and soldering the new section in. The short rails at the front are new through to the cab. I'll post another photo here when they're painted.










Cheers.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Dick,
Yes I'm aware of this and if I do ever install wiring for the smoke units I'll probably put at least some of the wiring into a conduit of some kind.
Thanks for this advise. I'm this will be useful for other readers as well.
Cheers.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

It was a while ago but I recall that getting those logo decals just right was a hellish exercise. Yours look amazing. Great work.

Dave


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

I think I have just about completed the front end of #206. 
One of the drawbacks of doing two engines at once is that there are four ends to complete and I only have a month to do it in.
These engines have now completed about six feet of running so I hope they don't let me down when they finally get to the great outdoors. 

















Cheers.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Your not serious about running those gems outside in the dirt are you? Wow!








Dave


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Dave,
Thanks or your comments and encouragement on this project.
My five year old grandson gave me a hand today to straighten out the coupler lifting bar. I had to plug the eyelet hole on the left side of the coupler and redrill it a little higher.
He's chomping at the bit to get them outside and run them as he was today with some of my CPR engines. So it's starting to look as though I won't have any say in the matter.
Cheers.


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## PVRR_Adam (Nov 17, 2010)

Wow, I'm impressed!


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

I think I'm done! 
It's been a long haul with lots of interruptions (including vacations) but it's time to get these puppies outside and see if they'll run. However, it looks as though it won't be this week. I don't mind getting them dirty, but I don't want to get them wet.

This is the fuel tank/switch panel and speaker housing, quite busy in there.










Starting from the top, to the right of the fuel tank is the socket for battery charging.
On the fuel tank at top is a switch to turn off the long hood head light. This allows the engine to run in a MU configuration as the second engine (long hood first) without the long hood head light on. The marker/classification lights will remain on. If the engine runs in the middle of a three loco MU set up I can turn off the headlight and classification lights with the train engineer.
I've set up #203 as the lead engine with crew. #206 has no crew.
The second switch is for sound adjustment on the Phoenix sound system. 
The red button of course is for the train engineer latching.
The bottom switch is a DP/DT for batter charging, switching off and powering up the loco. With power on the number board lights and sound system come on and stay on as long as the battery lasts. Typically on my other engines this is about four hours, depending on what they're doing.










I pulled the trucks apart last week and added air piping to the brake cylinders, sander pipes and a tachometer connection.










This is what they look like when back together.
I also hand painted the switches on the fuel tank as I didn't trust myself with an airbrush so close to the yellow side plate.










This is them done, I think. Hopefully I can get them out some time this coming week and see how they run.
I'll post another picture of them outside later, but in the mean time I would like to offer some thanks to those who commented on this post and those whose valuable assistance enabled me to complete this project, thank you all.
I would also like to thank Del Tapparo of G Scale Graphics who supplied the NAR decals. Stan Cedarleaf of Cedarleaf Custom Railroad decals for the number boards. Mike Hurley of USA Trains parts department.
And last but not least, Dave Winter for starting all this. Thanks Dave and thanks for your continued support.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, that's far and away the best job I've even seen. And NAR as well, A difficult scheme. Now everyone will be doing it. WTG ;-) Dave.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Those came out GREAT! Get a video of their first run if possible, would love to see them in action. 

Chris


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Awesome work on the engines!!!! 


-Kevin.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Very NICE work again, Harvey!! 

Say, can you take a close-up pic of your airlines work and expand a bit, tell us what you did in the detail area, since we all hashed it over before!!? 

Glad to see someone else use the fuel tank for hidden switch placement!!! Don't feeeel SO alone anymore!!! ha 

THX - Dirk DMS Ry.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Dirk,
The connectors are made from aluminum, machined to 0.125 dia with a 0.100 shoulder and a 0.062" O.D./ 0.040" I.D. socket to accept the wire. I then filed a flat on the radius part and attempted to also file a recess to replicate the glad-hand gripper. On this photo below I did the recess at the wrong end, but later changed that. I also drilled part way into the flat face to indicate an actual hose connection.
I used the USAT hose header but cut off the pipes, drilled into the ends with a 0.040" drill and inserted the wire connections with epoxy glue. On the wire connections I used a short piece of shrink sleeve at each end to act as the hose crimp when pained silver. They look ok from about twelve inches away.
On the train line hose this is a larger wire with at least 50% of the wire strands removed, but the same process except the glad-hand is a little larger diameter as well.




























On this shot you can see that I also closed the train line valve as this is the lead engine #203. I did this by drilling a 0.032" hole through the valve body then cut off the handle and inserted a 0.032 brass rod through the assembly with some glue.










The air line to the truck brakes is 0.032" brass and the nut connector is 0.062" Plasticard Hex with a 0.032: hole through it, again glued on assembly.
The sander pipes are 0.062" aluminum rod bent to fit where they can. At the bottom of the journal box support frame on the inside there is a slot which the rod when filed will fit into. No doubt USAT did this to allow for this modification!! You can just see above the brake cylinder the aluminum rod which floats above the motor block. I did epoxy the bottom end into the slot on the frame and I think this should hold it in place.
One of the drawbacks of showing someone closeup photos is that I also get to see them and I see right away where I need to touch up some paint work.
Please, no more close ups.
Cheers.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

That's so nicely done.

And perhaps deserving of a topic of it's own; How many people cut the metal pin off their couplers because they don't use them anyway? And why have it there? Your's stand on their own.

Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Beautiful work! Of course you know that the model is closer to a GP7 than a GP9, right? 

I see your removed the GP7 louvers under the cab, but not the triple louvers on the long hood near the cab. I cannot see if you modified the GP7 style louvers at the end of the long hood.

But, I love your level of detail (and hope you take all the comments as in fun, not criticism)


Greg


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## Flyfabio (May 21, 2012)

Really to a great job. I love the details and how you made ​​them.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

fantastic work!


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Greg,
Thanks for your comments on these engines. I think with all these builds or rebuilds we do we are faced with compromises. Having worked in both the aerospace and nuclear industry this is not a word I could or would ever use, however, with garden railways I think I'm making acceptable progress with this word and its definitions. My wife always wants to know why I can't take something out of the box and run it, apparently like everyone else does. Do they really?? I think not.
What I've done with help from others is take two USAT GP-9's and modify them to an "acceptable" level for me at this time. Mark Horovitz the editor of Garden Railways magazine wrote an excellent article in April 2012 issue about our models being "Good Enough". That's where I'm at with these two GP9's. However, this is not necessarily where they'll stay. Already I'm making plans to rebuild another one due to the mistakes I made on #203. I could have easily changed the number and name to #209 and moved on, but thats not me. I may at the same time modify some of the louvers, especially removing some, but I'm not so sure about adding them. There should be another triple set under the side logo, but I can tell you that getting these logo's on with the louvers already in place was no picnic.
I think the one big compromise we all make in modeling 1:29 scale is the track of course, but we, well most of us know this before we make this leap. One other thing that irks me is that my F7's are four scale feet short. We look and we know and we move on.
When I get to paint my next GP9, I may make some modifications to these two as well and bring them up to the next level of Good Enough.
Again, I would like to thank you and everyone else who have made comments on this post.
This is a photograph (not mine) of a NAR GP9 which clearly shows the louvers.










Cheers.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

great work, thanks for sharing and will said


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey I totally agree, removing those louvers was enough work! I've got a page on my site as a result of trying to find out which was which, and with all the phases of each it's confusing at best. 

You really have to be experienced to spot the differences I found. 

If you get a chance, would you mind looking at my page and see if the information I have collected makes sense to you? 

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains/mot...-power/gp7* 


Thanks, Greg


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg,
Have you thought about adding a link to this page on your website? http://trainiax.net/mescaleloco36-r...drawing=undectype&type=GP9&rebuilt=N&lrtype=L These drawings seem to be fairly generic and not road specific, but it would be easy to use the GP9 drawing for a comparison to the GP7 USA drawing.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

What a great lookng pair, Harvey.... Very, Very well done....


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Harvey, 

What a great effort, very nice work and execution. 

I have a USAT GP7 evolving into a GP9 low hood project I started a while back, and of course the louvers presented themselves front and center immediately. Removing the louvers is easy IMO, ideas for new or replacement louvers needs more research. I’d be interested in suggestions for suitable replacement louvers. I have considered molding my own louvers to get exact matches or maybe there are commercially available alternatives via doll house and or scale building parts suppliers for window surrounds. The other side of the louvers quandary; I’m assuming will require recessing the louvers into the body shell to make them look right… 

Michael


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Greg,
I've looked at your information page on the GP7/9 and while you've noted several differences in the 7 and 9 models, I have found that there are many more north of the border. Mine do have the three radiator louvres at the top of the long hood, but I don't have the additional three sets in the engine room doors at the side, just the two sets they came with. I have made some louvres before for baggage cars and I can tell you it's a lot of work. For me to have done this on the GP9's and then covered them with this large NAR side logo just seemed to me to be a bit nuts. However, I've done nutty things before and this may happen on the next one. Below the yellow line on the long hood is a small louvre that I should have removed as with another one within the yellow line about four inch from the end. These are certainly improvements I'll look at when doing another one. When I set up to paint I usually get carried away and paint or repaint everything I can find.
When I started these two engines I found several photographs of the hood tops, but apparently all from the later batch of GP9's that the NAR purchased. (There were two batches of five engines) Later in the build I did find a photograph of #202, which clearly showed the four 36" fans with a winterization hood. By this time I had already plugged the holes, remachined the hoods for the 48" fans and had them painted and numbered. So what to do? I decided that I would proceed to complete them and then rebuild another one as #209. Then all I had to do was change the cabs and the number boards. Certainly it'll be a lot more work and expense, but I also have to build a caboose or two to go with these engines so I reasoned that being as I would have to paint them I may as well go ahead and paint another engine.
The data you have collected is impressive, but I think if you started to include data from Canadian engines you might be surprised at the many more differences. The CPR ran some GP9's up in the mountains which had extended fuel tanks and because of this had to mount the air tanks on the roof next to the 36" fans near the cab so as not to interfere with the dynamic brake hood or the winterization hood. This was quite a busy roof arrangement and one that I want to replicate on my CPR GP9. The were also equipped with steam heaters.
Thanks again for all the information. Its a help to me and I'm sure it will help others.
Cheers.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey, 
I would say that every locomotive model is slightly different, and evolves over it's lifetime. I'm trying to pin down a couple of GP7/9's in either BN, or NP paint schemes to model. As you said it's easy to look for a specific model and notice a bunch of details that need to be changed. What is interesting to me is that railfans and modelers refer to different phases of locomotives, but yet the manufacturer just calls it a single thing and doesn't really account for all of the changes that you make. 

As for the louvers could it be possible to take the USA louvers and create a mold from them without removing it from the shell? I'm thinking a press type mold would work, but then the casting would be really thin. The only other way I could think of a way to make it work would be to cut out a whole section of the body (maybe a door), make a mold, recast and then cut out and replace the shell in all of the places you need a new louver. It would be a lot of work, but it might be easier then trying to scratchbuild a matching set of louvers to the USA molded on ones. 

Craig


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Michael,
Thanks for your comments on the GP9's. 

Hi Craig & Michael,
With regards to adding louvres I've tried 0.040" and 0.060" quarter round plasticard. They're a lot of fiddling to get them lined up, but look good when finished. The 0.060 is a very close match for those used on USAT. The 0.040" size tends to flood when painted especially if primed first so you need to be selective as to where you use those. Good luck.
Cheers.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Harvey - Please don't 'stop' with the close-ups. I like them and they help each of us build better models, "Close Enough" with room to grow & keep reaching,.. for better built models!!! 

There are many portions of model modifying we can all help each other with. I certainly have room to learn more Myself! What was a big boost of all things in my life was working in a CNC machine shop for 2 years. This exposed me to many more options and ideas for building than I might have realized to start with. Being able to remove and then 'mill' parts in my drill press is fairly basic stuff, esp. compared to the CNC work I was accustomed to doing. But I see this will lead to making parts and even patterns for later mold making - still to be learned at this point ( good enough ), but the future is wide open!!! 

So thanks for sharing this build with us here, and 'WE' look forward to your next bashing & detailing project! 

Now,...mmm,... if I could just find some more time for detail work on My locos! 

Thanks again Harvey, 
Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

The great outdoors...at last.




























The bridge and the track are level....the photographer is just trying not to spill his drink.
Cheers.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Now the train is straight and the bridge is twisted.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

looks great and thank you for posting


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 24 Jun 2012 10:13 PM 
Now the train is straight and the bridge is twisted.










It's a twisted world out there but the pics are great and those engines are works of art. Congratulations.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

harvey said:


> Hi Craig,
> I looked at the link you posted, but these are the crank type.
> This is the type I was referring too.
> 
> ...


Harvey,
I ran across a drawing of a Peacock Handbrake assembly in a 1931 Car Builders Cyclopedia. It's not quite the same as your picture, but it might give an idea of what that screw is for. Along with some general dimensions.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Craig,
It's been awhile (two years) since the last response on this forum. I kind of gave up on it after the comments about the bridge....Twisted indeed? a lot of things get twisted up here when the frost level is seven feet and the temperature is minus 36C. Fortunately the water line to our home comes in at eleven feet below grade, so at least we get cold water year round.

I was over at the railway museum yesterday, but never thought to ask about this screw, I have to make a point of finding out, for all of us.
There was a contractor crew there working on the upgrade of four GP38's, nice to see that these units are still serviceable and worth renovating for further use.

There has been lots of feedback on this post which I think has not only helped me for other projects, but also the one's I have that have reached the "Good Enough" status. I really like this description it fits well with my modeling results, Marc Horovitz of Garden Railways Magazine coined this phrase in one of his editorials.

While I do have another GP9 waiting to be renovated, I've now committed myself to finishing the cabooses I started over two years ago. It's hard when you're not disciplined and you're surrounded by distractions, as I certainly am.
Thanks as always for your comments.
Cheers.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The 'screw' is probably a split pin used as the center bearing for the lower wheel. Should be lower on Craig's, the brake wheel covers the upper pin.

John


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey,
I too have a bunch of projects half completed.... GP30 rebuild/detail, 3d design/print some turnout parts, GN Snow Dozer build, a feed mill that has sat halfway done now for 4 years...
When I was flipping through the Cyclopedia, my eye caught the word "Peacock" and I remembered this thread. I hope this picture helps out in some way to get motivated to work on the GP9's again! 
Craig


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