# Mexican train part 4: Locomotive



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I have finally started work on the locomotive for my Mexican. You can see the car builds and history in "Mexican train parts 1 through 3. Here is a photo of the train so far with the Bachmann Connie which will be bashed to look like the N de M locomotive #291.









A photo of the #291 taken by my father circa 1946.









A similar loco that shows the side detail better.









To be continued.

Merry Christmas to All!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Been there, done that.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The domes are interesting, clearly one steam dome, and probably one sand, what's the third one?

Greg


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, The Mexican railroads often added a second sand dome due to many long steep grades. The trains I rode from Mexico City to Oaxaca City, about 300 miles in 24 hours, had to run double and triple headers through the mountains and at times ran so slow that one could jump off, run along side and jump back on!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

From what piping I see, I would guess the first 2 domes are sand.

Greg


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

My friend Wesley and both have Connies and are working together to update the drive and convert them to battery/RC. First we replaced the drive axle and defective plastic gear with an axle and brass gear from Bachmann. Here is the old axle and gear. The crack in the gear is plainly visible







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The 2 locomotives side by side. The one on the right is mine with the brass gear showing. 








Sorry about the fuzzy spot, I needed to clean the lens.

Next we tore down the tenders to install the batteries and RC. We removed the coal load and cut out the area underneath to allow easier access to the electronics.









This is the interior of my tender showing the layout of the speaker, MyLocoSound board, RailBoss4 ECS and the RCS receiver. Wesley's is similar but with a Lion battery behind the speaker and an RCS combination receiver and ECS in front along with the sound board.








The battery on mine is mounted on top of the tender and will be covered by an oil tank which replaces the coal load.









The electronics in Wesley's tender.









I will be modifying the tender trucks to look more like the Bettendorf ? trucks used on the Mexican prototype. It has standard gauge trucks using 3 foot narrow gauge wheels on extended axles. My friend Vance gave me a set of Bettendorf side frames and I found that the Bachmann trucks can be adapted to work by cutting off the arch bars and gluing the new sides to the remaining cross beam. That makes the gauge about right. The cast in coil springs were removed and replaced with the leaf springs from the Bachmann trucks.








I will show more of that operation as it progresses. That is it for now.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Remember that you want to be careful if it rains, the opening can divert water right onto your electronics.... just a tip from a friend who is in a very wet climate... you may not have this issue at your location!

Greg


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I just accidentally erased my entire post.  
My friend Vance helped me find the manufacturer and serial number of the loco 291. It was built by ALCO Schenectady as s/n 68740. The as built photos look quite different from the 291 as converted by the N de M shops. Here is a detail of the tender truck. Vance gave me a set of truck side frames which are a close enough match to satisfy me.









This view of the tender rear shows the standard gauge truck with narrow gauge wheels installed.









I took the Bachmann side frames and removed the arch bars. The new frames were then glued to the stub ends of the original cross beam. I was going to turn new axles with the extended shafts but realized I could get the same effect by just extending the bearings which was a much easier solution. Here are an original truck next to a modified one.









The tender with an original truck and a modified one. The wheel base of the modified one is .1 inch shorter than the original (2 inches at full scale). Since the photos of the prototype were taken at an angle it is hard to determine exact dimensions. Therefore I consider this to be within the margin of error.









Adios, beer time!


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

The tender is finished. I will do some weathering on it once the loco is completed.









I am not very happy with lettering which I printed on sticky back vinyl. I think it would be better if I use a mask and paint it. Sorry about the fuzzy photo. I realized that my camera had gotten switched to "soft focus" by accident.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that the tender is done I am starting on the locomotive. Here is a list of the modifications that will be made.
lengthen the smoke box 1.25 inches
shorten the stack 1/2 inch
move the boiler and cab back .625 inches
add second sand dome
add second air pump
move bell to front of smoke box
raise running boards to the centerline of the boiler
widen the pilot deck
build steps from deck to running boards
change from "D" valves to piston valves
change from Baker valve gear to Walsharts
relocate air tanks and piping 
paint, lettering and weathering


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is some of the work I have accomplished so far. The locomotive is completely disassembled.









The smoke box is lengthened by cutting at the centerline of the stack and adding a piece of PVC pipe on the inside.
A couple of layers of styrene were added to bring the diameter to the O.D. of the smoke box.









The Stack was shortened and all the crevices filled with Squadron putty.









I am now working on the valves and valve gear. Many of the parts from the Bachmann valve gear are usable with some modification. I will post more on that as I progress.


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## tim.miles.uk (Oct 15, 2017)

*Mexican Train Part 4 Locomotive*

Hi Wynn

That is great progress you are making on the Mexicanisation of your Connie. Needless to say progress on mine is much slower with a lot of thought but little modification!!

One comment, and I only mention this as you mentioned that you were not happy with the tender decals, but from all the photos I have seen of these 2-8-0s the ‘DE’ in ‘N DE M’ has always been in upper case.

I have been doing some work on the decals myself and felt that Rockwell seemed a passable font using 118 pt for the ‘N.’ and ‘M.’ and 78 pt for the ‘DE’. I attach a pdf of what I have done so far.

Keep up the good work.

Tim


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Your letters could be cut out of that vinyl and look sharper. Del at 

https://www.gscalegraphics.net/custom-lettering.html

is the man to contact.

I'm enjoying the education...


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Guys. Tim. that is a great side view! I did not have one that is that close to perpendicular. Thanks for pointing out that I had the lettering wrong. I knew it didn't look right but hadn't inspected it closely enough to realize why. Also thanks for the attached file. I'm thinking when the train is complete that I will get a whole set of lettering from Del. I have bought several electronic items from him. He is great to deal with.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I am going to regress a little. Here are some photos of where I am starting and where I am headed. First right and left of the loco as it came from the factory.


















The stock Bachmann valve gear.









The ALCO valve gear.


















I am using the 2 cross beams from the B'mann, the back one in the original position and the front one moved to the space between the second and third drivers. I cut off part of each end and made new brackets for the crosshead guides and expansion link mounting.



























Here are some of the modified pieces mounted on the chassis.


















I don't know what material the original parts are made of. It is quite hard and brittle and breaks if bent much. I am working on the parts for the left side and the expansion links. More to come.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, brittle, much to the consternation of those who have snapped them easily. Must be some form of "pot metal" with zinc in it, since if left in moisture, you see that white "bloom".

Very interested to follow your build.

Greg


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## tim.miles.uk (Oct 15, 2017)

Winn

This is inspirational stuff. I can't wait for the next update.

A couple of questions:

1. Will you have to shorten the connecting rod to give enough space for the combination lever and union link? I am thinking I will have to shorten mine by about 12 mm.

2. What will you use to replace the rivets in the valve gear that you have removed? New rivets or screws?

I am thinking I might try to retain the Baker valve gear but moving it back, like you have done, as in the N de M 2-8-0s nos. 282 to 289. What do you think?

Keep up the good work.

Tim


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm... Looks great. But I think I would have gone out and bought some Walschaerts valve gear parts from the Bachmann 4-6-0, or similar, as that's what the Alco gear looks like.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, Tim and Pete, Thanks for your comments. 
Greg, The parts do seem to be some kind of pot metal which appears to be finished with a copper plating. I can solder the parts but have to be very careful not to melt them. I flux the parts and clamp them together with small pieces of solder and then heat them with a small butane torch just enough to make the solder flow.
Pete, I considered using the Annie valve gear. I have an Annie which I thought I might change to simulated Stevenson gear. Decided I would rather sell the Annie as I now don't plan to use it.
Tim, I shortened the main rod about 1/4 inch which centers the crosshead travel in the guides. I shortened the eccentric link and the combination lever and used rod from a different part of the original valve gear which just happened to be the right length. I think I can use some of the existing rivets by drilling the ends and peening them in place. I need to look at a diagram of the valve gear as I am not sure I am calling parts by the correct names.
Here are some more photos of what I have done so far. I made the expansion links from brass and modified the little forked piece to form the pivot.


















These are the parts of the valve body. The bass parts are made from 1/2 and 17/32 inch tube telescoped together and soldered. The ends are turned from steel just because I had some. They are mounted on modified original "D" valve boxes which are moved outboard about 1/16 inch. I am using styrene tube to get the final outside profile.









This the left side with most of the parts in place. Some of the unmodified parts are in the foreground. Unfortunately I messed up the eccentric rod and had to splice on a new piece which still needs some work to make it look right.









A close up of the valve showing the guides at the back end.









When I need to take a break from the fiddly stuff I am working on the domes. The steam dome was shortened about 1/8 inch and the whistle moved to the top. The sand domes were also shortened 1/8 and I am changing the contour of the base to look more that of the steam dome using Squadron putty.









That is all for now.


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## tim.miles.uk (Oct 15, 2017)

Hi Winn

Now making some progress on my Connie. First job is to modify the Baker valve gear by hanging it one driver towards the rear. This will mean changing the lengths of some of the rods and I noticed that you had extended some of yours with brass.

Question, did you use solder to join on the brass? If you did use solder was it low melt?

Interested to know.

How is your Connie going?

Best.

Tim


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tim, Glad to hear you are getting started on you Connie. I look forward to seeing your build log. I used 1/32 electronic rosin core solder with some rosin paste on both parts. I used a small butane to heat the joint, that way you can heat quickly and get off before things get too hot. Some of the later pieces I tinned both parts and then clamped them together with spring clamps and reheated the joint. That seemed to work best. I did have a couple of disasters where parts melted. You will notice on some upcoming posts that some of the links on one side are modified originals, on the other side they are scratch made. Some parts are scratch made on both sides as it just seemed easier than trying to modify something.
My Connie is coming along slowly with numerous interruptions, however I will be posting some progress in the next couple of days. The valve gear is almost done. The cylinder and pilot mods are in progress.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I finally have some progress to post. The cylinders, valves and valve gear are mostly done and installed. Here is the process I used on the cylinder assembly. The piston valve construction is show in some of the previous views. The guide tracks in the rear extensions are made from square tubing the I milled off one side and then soldered in place. After gluing the valves in place I used styrene pieces and Squadron putty form the shape and then covered them with .010 styrene.









Well crap! Not sure what is happening but all of a sudden I can't make photos from the gallery appear, only little black boxes with an X in the middle. What gives?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)




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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg, What did do wrong? I clicked on the photo and clicked "copy" and then tried to "paste" it in the box that comes up when I click the mountain icon. That didn't have a "paste" option anymore. Then I copied the address from the address bar and entered that but that is when I got the black box. For some reason things changed since I last posted a photo.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You ALWAYS want to get the web address of the file, and then use the picture icon in the editor and paste the web address.

All these other shortcuts (that may be easier) seem to come and go.



 Go to the gallery
click on the picture (now you are still seeing the picture on the forum page, a picture within a picture.)
Now, right click on the picture and select "View image" (you should only see the picture, no web page around it)
now right click again and say "copy image location"..
 
You now have the web address of that picture that you can paste...

5. copy this web address when you select the "insert picture" icon.

You can debug things too, by putting that address in a browser, if the picture comes up, then you are pretty well assured that using that address will work.

Greg


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I tried both of these.

"http://forums.mylargescale.com/memb...ve-picture15737-cylinder-valve-buildup-2.html"








(without the asterisks)

The first one does come up with a link, the second one still comes up with the box.

Thanks for your help. I must still be doing something wrong.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, you have not got to the image yet... you have copied the address of the page. Sounds like you missed step 3.

Try re-reading my directions and follow step by step... keep trying.

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I clicked on your link and copied it's location from the opened pic. ...
What OS are you using?


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks John. I have Windows 10 latest version and am using Microsoft Edge. I can get the photo location but when I copy it into the pop-up box it just gives a link instead of a photo. It worked fine before I had the latest version of Windows installed. After that all kinds of things changed. Maybe you guys will just have to put up with links to see my photos. Sorry!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

May be adding to the confusion...

You can have many types of links, but you want the one to a picture (normally ending in .jpg) as opposed to a web "page" which contains a picture (normally ending in .htm or .html).

Your link ended in .html, meaning that you did not "get" a link to the picture, but a link to a page "containing" a picture.

So when you tried to post a picture, you posted a web page... and it did not work.

Again, the bulletproof method is to get to a point where all you see is the picture on the screen (step 3)... then copying the address gives you what you want.

I believe if you get the "concept" down, you will continue to succeed. Trying to memorize a method without understanding what is happening usually works for a while and then fails and you don't know why... (and this is where we are, apparently)

Greg


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

OK Greg, I seem to have found the magic formula although my photos are GIF rather than JPG. Thanks ever so much for all your patience with me. I will now finish posting what I am up to now.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, I have the cylinder/valve assemblies formed with styrene and Squadron putty and continue by wrapping them with .010 styrene sheet as shown it the next 2 photos.


















I also added the access port covers on the sides. Some more smoothing of the front and back of the assemblies and they will be ready for paint. The cylinders assembled with the pilot deck extensions.









I thought I had the valve linkage pretty much done and but I was not happy with some of the parts so am considering redoing some of it. Here is what it looks like now.

















Sorry about the washed out photo.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Here are some of the new and added parts sitting in place. In addition to the new valves and valve gear, widened pilot deck, there is the lengthened smoke box, shortened stack and 2 domes and the boiler moved back 5/8 inch. Also the running boards are raised to the center of the boiler and a second air pump added. The generator is rotated 90 deg. so that the exhaust is toward the cab.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That is nice looking valve gear... going to be a helluva model.

Greg


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

The chassis is now mostly done including the oilers and linkage.








Some of the pivots I was able to peen the ends, others I used a dab of J-B Weld. Everything seems to be working smoothly.Here is a closer view.









I am now moving on to the cosmetic stuff. The domes have been shortened and the bases reshaped. A second air pump has been located for mounting. . Here is the left side.








The headlight bracket was huge and ugly so I narrowed it from its original size. The bell has been moved to the front of the smoke box. Here is the right side.









Now I am bending pieces of wire to make all the plumbing. Figuring out the order of assembly is pretty much a trial and error processes requiring numerous assembly's and disassembly's.
It has been said before but I will repeat it, "Take lots of photos of the donor model before disassembly, you will be glad you did when it comes time to reassemble."


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I now have most of the piping bent to shape ready to paint and install. Here is the right side.









And the left side.









We have a show at the Botanical Gardens this week end, both sparkies and steamers on separate layouts. I will try to get some photos worth posting on the events forum. Next week I hope to start putting the boiler and its appliances together.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I was asked today about all the lines that appear white. Actually the only ones that are white are the 2 steam lines that feed the air pumps and the line that feeds the generator. the rest are copper and the camera made them look white. All the new lines that I made are #14 or #12 electrical wire. The three white ones have the insulation left on the simulate the insulated steam feed lines. The rest had the insulation removed and have now been painted black.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

A couple of the last parts I needed to make were the steps from the pilot deck to the catwalk. I made a small jig of wood to hold the parts in place while soldering them together. A torch set the jig on fire so I reverted to a small soldering iron. It barely had enough heat to tack parts together but that was enough to hold them while taking them out of the jig and clamping together for heating with the torch.
Here is one in the jig and one after final soldering.









After painting they were attached to the catwalks with Kwik J-B weld. I used that to attach most of the detail parts. I was careful to fasten all the details only to the boiler and cab so that they can be separated from the chassis as with the stock model.

The locomotive is now done including the vinyl lettering which Dell Tappro "G Scale Graphics" made for me. Here are several views of the finished locomotive.













































I also redid the cars with lettering from Dell. If the weather cooperates, tomorrow I will post photos of them and of the entire finished train on the railroad.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Wow!
Amazing job, been fun to follow along.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks John, I appreciate the complement. It has been a fun and sometimes frustrating trip.
Here are the finished cars. The baggage car.









The second class car.









The first class Pullman car.









You can see the build logs of these cars and lots more photos in Mexican Train Parts 1 through 3.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I just hit the wrong button and lost my whole post. 
Here are some photos for comparison. First the locomotive as it came from the ALCO shop.









Then the stock Bachmann Connie.









My Dad took this a photo of the train that we rode from Mexico City to Oaxaca City when we lived in Mexico. I was 9 or 10 years old at the time.









This is my attempt at recreating that photo with my model. I may try to get a better angle and light but here it is for now.









Now a couple of photos of the entire train on my railroad.


















That is about it. I may add some more photos if I can get some good ones. Thanks for looking.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Winn, very nice train. I have enjoyed following your posts.

Larry


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Amazing finish. Huge leap to completion since I last saw it on your bench. I now know why you have been scarce the last couple of weeks. Wonderful train.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is another photo that I tried to match the original. Closer but still not quite there.









My wife took this so I figured I might as well post it.









Well I need to get back getting ready for a steam-up/open house and some honey-dos.


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## Crisolite (Jan 9, 2008)

It's looking real close, just a couple minor details.
Good work. I like it


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## tim.miles.uk (Oct 15, 2017)

Hi Winn

Just caught up with your latest posts. The 291 is looking really great and makes a fine sight with the authentic baggage and passenger cars in front of your Alvarado building.

Still working on my No. 287. A bit hung up on the valve gear changes at the moment and not so much time for modelling now that Spring/Summer is with us.

Did you remove the back-wall on the Connie cab? All the photos I have seen of the G030s show that there was no back-wall.

All best and a great conversion. What's next - an HR01?

Tim


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tim, Thanks for the compliment. No I did not remove the back although I did enlarge the opening around the backhead. I know that there are a number of details that are not quite correct due to lack of information or just the fact that I was going more for the look rather than an exact scale model. The back of the cab does make it much more sturdy. I am not familiar with the nomenclature you mention, but no, I do not plan any more Mexican trains. Everything else I run is Colorado or New Mexico.


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## tim.miles.uk (Oct 15, 2017)

Sorry Winn, I was being a bit frivolous!! I attach a photo of an HR01 - it's a big loco!


All best


Tim


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I had not seen that one. Gerald Best's book has a photo of #368 on the page opposite the contents page. I think I read somewhere that it was originally a Uintah loco. Bachmann has a couple of models of that but I think they are either 1/24 or 1/22.5. Either of those would be a real beast in 1/20.3 scale.


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## AlaiNdeMexico (Aug 22, 2018)

*Ndem locomotive 279*

Dear fellow American modelers, this is my first posting I am a Mexican fan of all these types of trains, and I really regret not having been able to know the time in which they served in my country, however I have spent all this time looking for information and data about the fleet of railway material that existed in Mexico of narrow-gauge trains, I will leave here a sample of a model that I built on paper from one of the locomotives that until recently was still in operation as a living museum exhibit to the south of the country, it is the consolidation locomotive 2-8-0, class G-030 no. 279 that was built by Baldwin in 1921


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to MLS. I lived in Oaxaca from age 6 to age 13 and loved riding the little narrow gauge trains from Mexico DF. I have a photo of 279 but it is not clear and hard to see the details. Where was it running?


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## Joaquín FCM (Sep 2, 2020)

[QUOTE = "placitassteam, publicación: 1137482, miembro: 1166"]
Bienvenidos a MLS. Viví en Oaxaca desde los 6 hasta los 13 años y me encantaba viajar en los pequeños trenes de vía estrecha desde México DF. Tengo una foto de 279 pero no está clara y es difícil ver los detalles. ¿Dónde estaba corriendo?
[/CITAR]
¡Hola! Hello! My name is Joaquín, I am from the city of Aguascalientes, Mexico, I have some photos of the NdeM 291 in Buenavista and photos of the locomotive already on standard track as number 904! Here I attach them, I hope You answer. By the way there are some photos of the 291 still like 300 inside the factory, could you please attach them to me Cheers! Joaquin Chavez Salabert


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Winn is still around here and will be pleased to see your photos.


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## Joaquín FCM (Sep 2, 2020)

[QUOTE = "Pete Thornton, publicación: 1161723, miembro: 260"]
Creo que Winn todavía está por aquí y estará encantado de ver tus fotos.
[/CITAR]
hopefully! Cheers


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Bien venido a MLS Joaquin! Mi Espan~ol ya no es muy bueno, por eso voy a contiuar en English. I am sorry it has taken so long to reply to you. Here are the ALCO Schenectady shop photos of #300 (N de M 291) as built.


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