# LGB dual motor decoder



## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a Duel motor decoder for an LGB streetcar


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

There are a few places to get a replacement LGB onboard decoder: 

Modell-Land in Germany has these parts. For electronic parts, try their partner website, Modell-Land Service. 
http://www.modell-land.de/ 
http://www.modell-land-service.de/ 

Large Onboard Decoder at modell-Land Service 
http://www.modell-land-service.de/014100-onboard-decoder-69800s103-p-9447.html 

Train-Li-USA has access to the spare parts available through Modell-Land in Germany. You can ask them to source the parts. Axel is an MLS forum member. 
http://www.train-li-usa.com/ 

Champex-Linden in Germany also has a huge supply of parts. Sven Linden can usually supply the part if you provide the exploded parts diagram with the part number circled. 
www.champex-linden.de 

Klaus Stork, the former Massoth Electronics USA contact, may also be able to help. He has a number electronic items and common spare parts. 
http://www.traincraftbyklaus.com/Home_Page.html 

BridgeMasters purchased a large supply of the former LGBoA's spare parts from Silvergate. The balance of the parts ended up back in Germany. 
http://www.bridge-masters.com/ 
Contact Jeff at [email protected] 

In some cases, Maerklin can also provide spares. (You'll need to contact Germany.) This is typically for service of new items, so the streetcar is out of the question. I would try the other sources first. 

Please remember, there are several different 'builds' of large onboard decoder. Software revisions and default CV programming will vary. Also note, LGB would often add/remove connectors based upon the model they were building. For example, if they didn't need a rear headlight connector for the locomotive, they would often not solder it to the decoder. I found this odd, as it really couldn't have saved them any money. Don't be surprised if you need to remove a connector from your faulty decoder and add it to your replacement decoder. (Decent mechanical and soldering ability is required, but it isn't painful.) 

Good luck! 

Best regards, 
Bob 

PS - Nice picture.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

NavyTech: 

Did you actually mean an exact replacement for you on-board-decoder? I would not do it. Where would you be if you were to order one from one of the folks that Bob listed and ...? 

There are much better and more convenient alternatives to replacing an old on-board-LGB decoder with another old but "new" on-board-LGB decoder. 

The one I have in mind involves a Massoth onboard adapter. The on-board adapter allows you to preserve you current LGB wiring intact and give access a ten-pin decoder interface to which you can attach a more current decoder such as the Massoth XL decoder or the LGB 55027 decoder, or some others. 

The current cost of an on-board-adapter and a Massoth XL is about $141, both are avaialbe immediatley, and each has a 2 year warranty to boot. 

BTW: here is a link to the manual for the on-board-adapter: http://www.massoth.com/dlbereich/do...;gruppe=50

Mohammed
http://www.allaboutlgb.com 
http://www.massothusa.com


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Mohammed, 

Where would you be if you were to order one from one of the folks that Bob listed and ...? 

Maybe I am reading this completely wrong, but it seems you are trying to make a sale by discounting the above-listed vendors as 'disreputable,' 'incompetant,' or otherwise 'incapable of providing professional service.' Is there reason to believe the vendors would not stand behind a faulty/defective/damaged product or is this statement simply conjecture? The firms listed have many years experience servicing the LGB marketplace and offer tremendous product knowledge. I have had positive experiences with all of the above firms and I doubt they would still be in business if your inference was true. 

Offering an alternative solution is perfectly fine; disparaging other businesses for personal gain is rather objectionable. 

Best regards, 
Bob 

BTW - As we are quoting prices, Modell-Land sells the Massoth Onboard Adaptor and XL decoder combination for 20.65+56.91=77.56 Euro / 1.19 VAT x 1.26 USD/Euro = $82 USD + shipping.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Where would he be? 

He'd have exactly what he had before, and looks like there are several places to buy. 

And he'd be taking the advice of a person who seems motivated to help people, not make money from it. 

Yes, I took that sentence to denigrate the dealers Bob listed. 

As this forum exists because people come here to discuss, learn and get help, I get upset when the "help" has a constant bias to lining the pockets of the "helper" 

Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Bob: I am amazed that both you and Greg agree on what motivates me when I give advice; and you both inferred motive and meaning from "what I have not said"!!!

BTW Bob: I have done and in most cases continue to do business with every dealer in the list, all are reputable and most are nice but that neither here no there. 

*Let me tell you what I did not say* (I thought it was obvious, Axel has mentioned this several times). Let use* you questionable quote Bob* as the starting point. The actual cost would probably be more like $90 (when you include international transaction fees); the cost of shipping from Germany around $40.00, and turnaround time roughly 3 to 4 weeks. 

If the product fails, the cost of having it replaced would at least be another $40.00 for shipping it back; there would be another 3 or 4 weeks for it to get back to Germany, the product or may not be available at that time (there aren’t lots of old on-board-decoders sitting on shelves waiting for eager customers); and if available another 3 or 4 weeks before it gets back to Navy Tech. 

Yes Greg, If Navy Tech followed Bob's advice he will certainly end up where had been, but he could have used the opportunity to update his decoder and be in a better place without having to order from Germany, wait for it for a few weeks , learn German just in case, and possibly save $10.00

NavyTech do not follow my advice, my motives are questionable or so they say.

Mohammed

http://www.allaboutlgb.com/
http://www.massothusa.com/


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

Let's not get crazy people. 

My decoder is shorted across the input power terminals on the CCT card. Which is very odd. I need to replace it and having trouble finding a place in Canada or USA to get one. It is my fathers streetcar and he only uses DC analog bridge works to run it so the DCC end of it is not important. I could re wire it if all else fails. 

The issue started by one of the motors shorting and died. I replaced the motor which we were lucky enough to have one kicking around. I am sure that I am not the only one out there that has had this problem.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Navytech, do you have the on board decoder manual for checking the CV's for voltage settings. 
Most of these on board decoders are set for 5 volts for lights, but need to be checked before hooking up the lights on any manufacturers decoder. 
All you need is the track power and one motor to do this. 
What do you have for a control system? 
ANd remember that a reset CV55 to a 55 will reset to mfg default values, so do this first!!


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Navy Tech: 

If you do not need DCC, the on-board adapter may be all you need. Give me a couple days to test this out. It would be a lot easier than rewiring. 

Mohammed


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Navy Tech, 

What is the model number of your streetcar? If you don't know the model number, simply describe it or determine whether it has sound. (If you don't have sound, the re-wire can be really simple. If you have sound, you'll need a decoder.) 

Here is the spare part diagram showing the wiring connections for a non-sound streetcar... 
http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_produktdatenbank/medien.nsf/medien/7010DCA936BCEB078525715E004ADCDE/$FILE/20380-1.PDF 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

I do not think Navy Tech's streetcar has sound, the image displayed above shows that the red socket, where the sound board is usually attached to the on-board decoder, is empty. It has nothing plugged into it. 

Mohammed


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

10 amp bridgeworks runs it and no DCC system used 


LGB G scale 21382 Third Avenue Transit System Perley Thomas Streetcar with sound


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Did you disconnect the sound board?


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Mohammed, 

I do not think Navy Tech's streetcar has sound, the image displayed above shows that the red socket, where the sound board is usually attached to the on-board decoder, is empty. It has nothing plugged into it. 


The picture Navy Tech posted was 'borrowed' from my MLS webspace. It shows an LGB #25510 RhB Gm4/4 Diesel, not an LGB streetcar. (Streetcars don't have orange bodies with RhaitischeBahn logos...and the streetcar decoder is mounted in the center of the chassis, not the end.) He is simply trying to show a picture of the decoder he needs. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Bob: 

That explain you postscript "Nice picture". I was paying attention to what Navy Tech was asking about, the decoder, not its context which is irrelevant anyway. 

Sincerely, 

Mohammed


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Navy Tech, 

Bridgewerks power supplies have been known to supply high open circuit voltages. Adding a small resistive load, like a passenger coach with lamps, can help pull the voltage down. Before throwing another decoder into your streetcar, it might be worth checking the power supply voltage at full throttle. Measure the voltage without a load and re-measure it after adding a small resistive load. 

The LGB onboard decoder may have failed because of high input voltage. Anything above 22VDC should be avoided. If your power supply is so equipped, use the maximum throttle setting lock to prevent overvoltage conditions.

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have to echo what Bob said, I get a lot of private communication about blown electronics from Bridgeworks supplies, many will supply 32 volts unloaded. Won't take long at this voltage to zap some electronics. 

Yes, under load it will drop down, but that initial high potential has, in my experience, damaged electronics. 

Regards, Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Greg: 

Maybe it is time to make the information about the Bridgeworks power supplies more readily available to everyone , including Dave at Bridgeworks; I do not see a reason why he would not want to know. I do have a Bridgeworks , it has some form of built in voltage limiter, and I run it through an external voltage liimter as well. So I cannot speak from personal experience but those who can should. 

mohammed


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By mbendebba on 23 Jun 2012 06:00 PM 
Greg: 

Maybe it is time to make the information about the Bridgeworks power supplies more readily available to everyone , including Dave at Bridgeworks; I do not see a reason why he would not want to know. I do have a Bridgeworks , it has some form of built in voltage limiter, and I run it through an external voltage liimter as well. So I cannot speak from personal experience but those who can should. 

mohammed 
I'm not Greg. Mohammed, but what he and Bob posted about the high output voltage of some Bridgewerks supplies has been well known for years.
I'm actually a bit surprised this is news to you.

Here is a video that claims this is a myth;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSvevKZl-XQ

But throughout the video the Brudgewerks built in voltmeter reads voltages way in excess of what is acceptable for Large Scale.
Even the steady state voltage is 32 volts, but then the meter also shows readings like this (a snapshot of that video):


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

knut: thanks for the info, It is definetely news to me. I was being cautious with mine just for the sake of caution nothing more, After seeing this, I am glad I was. Now I need to look for a new 12-15amp regulated and stabilized power supply. Any suggestions? 

Mohammed


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Mohammed, 

Now I need to look for a new 12-15amp regulated and stabilized power supply. Any suggestions? 

Have you tried Shourt Line by Soft Works Ltd.? 
http://swl4.com/SL-PS300-1-27Fp.html 

According to his website, "The Shourt Line is Massoth's Number 1 FACTORY Authorized Dealer in the USA for the last 5 years running." 

He sells regulated power supplies and he should have tremendous experience with Massoth products. I'm sure he could help you with your specific installation. 

Plus, since he is in the US, you won't need to worry about outrageous international shipping charges, long delivery times, language barriers, or currency transaction fees!

Best regards, 
Bob


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Bob: 

The pictures look nice and the claims are pretty impressive, but isn't that the product you spoke about disparagingly on another forum a couple months back? Thank for the advice, but ......!!!! 

Please do not put words in my mouth again (where does the outrageous thing come from? ) 

Sincerely 

Mohammed


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2008)

Hilarious! I don't need to watch SNL.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Hey Chip: what is SNL? Maybe I would get better advice if I were to watch it.

Mohammed


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Mohammed, 

The pictures look nice and the claims are pretty impressive, but isn't that the product you spoke about disparagingly on another forum a couple months back? Thank for the advice, but ......!!!! 


No, I think your memory is failing. I did not make any disparaging remarks about the product. Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else? 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+snl%3F


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Navy Tech, 

If you are still reading this mess of a thread... 

I spoke to the gentleman who is the decoder installer at Ultimate Trains in Nanton, AB. He did not have any large onboard decoders in his spare parts bin. However, Ultimate Trains is a Canadian dealer for Massoth. As UT is in Alberta, you could save the Provincial sales tax, Customs fees, and currency transaction fees if you decide to go that route. Tony, the Ultimate Trains owner, is a really nice guy and his service is second to none. 

http://www.ultimatetrains.com/

Best regards, 
Bob


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hello again, Navy Tech, 
My decoder is shorted across the input power terminals on the CCT card. 

Silly question, but are you seeing the short with the motorblocks disconnected? (In other words, do you have one of the motorblocks flipped around 180 degrees? Perhaps the motorblock was flipped after you replaced the motor? This would give a short at the input terminals. Perhaps the decoder is still okay and the motorblock orientation is the problem?) 

Page #10 of the Exploded Parts Diagram shows the proper orientation of the motorblocks: 
http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_produktdatenbank/medien.nsf/medien/0E05418986F4D2498525715E004B6BA2/$FILE/21382P-1.PDF 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By mbendebba on 23 Jun 2012 11:02 PM 
Hey Chip: what is SNL? Maybe I would get better advice if I were to watch it.

Mohammed 

Chip: 
I guess he has not only difficulty with the technical stuff about LGB (AllIdontknowaboutLGB.com), but with common life as well.









SNL = Saturday Night Life[/b]


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, SNL could mean lots of things: 

http://www.snl.com/ 
http://www.snl.it/ 
http://www.sandia.gov/ 
http://www.snl-zerspanungstechnik.de/ 
http://www.snl-event.de/ 

to name just a few. 

All of those have as much to do with Large Scale Trains as Saturday Night Live


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 24 Jun 2012 11:53 AM 
Posted By mbendebba on 23 Jun 2012 11:02 PM 
Hey Chip: what is SNL? Maybe I would get better advice if I were to watch it.

Mohammed 

Chip: 
I guess he has not only difficulty with the technical stuff about LGB (AllIdontknowaboutLGB.com), but with common life as well.









SNL = Saturday Night Life[/b] 




*This is without a doubt a fiine example of Axel at his best! keep up the good work Axel and one day soon you will get your reward, and a sense of humor* 
*BTW Axel: "Liiiiiiiiiiiiive from New York, it's Saturday Night Liiiiiiiiiiiiiive"*



Guess Who!!!!


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Mohammed, 

BTW Axel: "Liiiiiiiiiiiiive from New York, it's Saturday Night Liiiiiiiiiiiiiive" 

Actually, it's "Live from New York, it's Saturday Night!" 

Maybe you should avoid attempts to make people look silly by impressing us with your pop culture knowledge. Leave it to the professionals. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Bob: Maybe this might impress you, you are starting to sound more and more like the proverbial dog with a bone, you need to let sleeping dogs lie !!! 

Respectfully,
Mohammed


P.S. Chip, are you still finding amusing? frankly, I am getting bored with it.


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

OK LETS GET THINGs On Track 

I know what is wrong THE DECODER IS SORTED and I need a new card. 

I do not need all the mumbo Jumbo beating around the bush 

Thank you rwbrashear for keeping on track


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Ship in your decoder, Dan has a 50/50 shot in getting it going again, some of the components are in stock. If not there is one just like that in stock - unless you want to upgrade to a more modern style decoder for the actually less money (and that one includes even sound), but causes some work (not a lot). At the end you love the upgrade - the trolley will run much smoother. But I have learned some poeple stick with origina LGB for the collectors - retail value.


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

How much to purchase the one you have in stock? Better yet do you have a schematic of the card? I might be able to do something with it here.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

$195.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The only schematics on LGB equipment we have found are the PDF documents you find on the wiring of the engines, not board schematics. 

I believe all distributors had sent boards back to Germany in the past for repair. 

At Train-Li we see shorted diode bridges and burnt etches and these are easy to fix. Larger mosfets that are smoked can also be replaced.


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## tommyheadleycox (Oct 15, 2010)

Ummm..... just curious...from a lurker's point of view...and I'll be blunt...

The visceral dislike and ad hominen attacks in this thread have a chilling effect on what should be a fun and productive topic.

Stop attacking each other in this open forum. It's puerile. Worse, it's completely unfair to the hobby and new folks who are just tuning in to have some fun. I promise you, they sign off thinking "Well, THAT is certainly no fun." Finally, it's unmanly. If you have a beef with a man, email him privately. 

If anybody has a beef with what I've just said, email me privately. Don't use this open forum.

Tom Cox
[email protected]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tommy, unfortunately when people are presenting "opinions" as "helpful" in the forum, and they are completely self-serving, and the presenter is a dealer of the "miracle product", there is no other place to comment back. 

Clearly contacting someone privately who already does these things publicly will have no effect. To be really clear: if this kind of action is done on the forum to consternation of many, what effect do you think a private email will do... 

In this case, I can guarantee you, nothing. 

Now, does everyone enjoy this "messing up" threads? No! 

BUT, I will submit that since MLS does not do much to police this, that we, the members need to speak out. 

Yeah, yeah, I have been told dozens of times I'm not a moderator. 

Tough, it's a FORUM and if MLS won't manage it to the members satisfaction, then the members will or they will all leave. 

Look around on the Internet, good forums are basically self-policing by the consensus of the members. 

OK, off the soapbox, and apologies to Jason who just wanted some information. 

Greg 

p.s. nice vocabulary, but it is often off-putting to others... I see you must be a student or employee of the University of North Carolina... ahh. you are in the IT department.... hey most IT guys would not have that vocabulary, congratulations! 

p.p.s. it's you with the camera on the left, correct? And that's Jane Fonda... I'll bet you could tell us some stories!

*[url]http://help.unc.edu/CCM3_006888*[/url]


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## tommyheadleycox (Oct 15, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 Jun 2012 10:25 AM 
Tommy, unfortunately when people are presenting "opinions" as "helpful" in the forum, and they are completely self-serving, and the presenter is a dealer of the "miracle product", there is no other place to comment back. 

Clearly contacting someone privately who already does these things publicly will have no effect. To be really clear: if this kind of action is done on the forum to consternation of many, what effect do you think a private email will do... 

In this case, I can guarantee you, nothing. 

Now, does everyone enjoy this "messing up" threads? No! 

BUT, I will submit that since MLS does not do much to police this, that we, the members need to speak out. 

Yeah, yeah, I have been told dozens of times I'm not a moderator. 

Tough, it's a FORUM and if MLS won't manage it to the members satisfaction, then the members will or they will all leave. 

Look around on the Internet, good forums are basically self-policing by the consensus of the members. 

OK, off the soapbox, and apologies to Jason who just wanted some information. 

Greg 

p.s. nice vocabulary, but it is often off-putting to others... I see you must be a student or employee of the University of North Carolina... ahh. you are in the IT department.... hey most IT guys would not have that vocabulary, congratulations! 

p.p.s. it's you with the camera on the left, correct? And that's Jane Fonda... I'll bet you could tell us some stories!

*[url]http://help.unc.edu/CCM3_006888*[/url] 









HAW! I've been caught! Yep, that's me with a Honeywell Pentax in the fall of 1972 with Jane Fonda. Interestingly enough, that was my SECOND encounter with her. 

I understand your points about the emails......no other place to comment back... etc...

I just find it a bit.....unusual...

Oh well. I'll just ignore it.

Tommy


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Tommy I think you'll find that in the DCC section there are lots of people with strong personalities who thrive on a challenge, and a little head to head sparring is sometimes the by-product of too much time and too little challenge. I think you will find, though, that when someone poses a challenging problem, everyone pulls in the same direction and there is very little that goes unsolved. 

Keith


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## tommyheadleycox (Oct 15, 2010)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 28 Jun 2012 02:17 PM 
Tommy I think you'll find that in the DCC section there are lots of people with strong personalities who thrive on a challenge, and a little head to head sparring is sometimes the by-product of too much time and too little challenge. I think you will find, though, that when someone poses a challenging problem, everyone pulls in the same direction and there is very little that goes unsolved. 

Keith 


Well said, Keith. I'll just skip over the sparring and continue to enjoy the problem solving. Which I do, very much.

Tommy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

By the way Tommy, I did peruse a number of the pages for the IT department there, looks very well organized and helpful. One of my responsibilities is running our IT department in our company, wish my help pages looked as good! 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, I still have that Pentax and with the original light meter!!!!


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## tommyheadleycox (Oct 15, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 Jun 2012 10:40 PM 
By the way Tommy, I did peruse a number of the pages for the IT department there, looks very well organized and helpful. One of my responsibilities is running our IT department in our company, wish my help pages looked as good! 

Greg
Thank you! (Not that I write the web pages). IT Support is a difficult profession, IMHO, because you're only noticed when things break. Still, I like helping people and solving their problems - as you obviously do too, Greg.

Tommy


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By tommyheadleycox on 29 Jun 2012 01:51 PM 


....IT Support is a difficult profession, IMHO, because you're only noticed when things break. Still, I like helping people and solving their problems - as you obviously do too, Greg.

Tommy

While of topic, but the problem is more complex. Not only is your existence only noticed when things brake, no you are actually the presumed origin of all problems (in particular the networking guys):

- The user poured coffee over the keyboard and nothing works - its the network
- New update on the intranet server and there are missing links - its the network
- Slow response time of the server due to capacity sizing - its the network
- Patch on your PC and you can't go anywhere afterwards - its the network
..............


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Give Ross a call at Watts Train Station in Zionsville, Indiana. He is very good with LGB digital, as is the owner Dave Watts. Watts was and still is for the most part a LGB powerhouse for out of production stuff and repair of LGB, as is Klaus Stork.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

huh?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 Aug 2012 11:00 PM 
huh? 


Mike's reply was his answer to the original question:

"Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a Duel motor decoder for an LGB streetcar"


This thread has gone so far off topic that it's not even funny.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And a month and a half later... and by reading his other thread, that dealer really gave a poor set of options (in my opinon) for his LGB locos, the Revo with drill batteries, or full on Massoth.... where's the "middle ground"? Just 2 "etremes" 

The huh was for coming back and reviving a long since dead thread.... yeah I know, the mods will say this is cool.... when a thread goes into a tailspin, it becomes worthless later because of the weak search function and now all the "pollution" in the thread. 

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 17 Aug 2012 07:27 AM 
And a month and a half later... 

The huh was for coming back and reviving a long since dead thread....
We just look at this a bit differently.

On other forums I visit people sometimes revive two and three year old threads which is really useless since those are high tech type forums and technology has moved forward way beyond the original topic, but with Large Scale and especially now in the Summer months where people tend to spend time with their trains rather than reading and posting on MLS, I didn't really consider commenting on a 6 week old thread out of line.

Just my optinion.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have nothing against reviving and substantially contributing to a thread. 

I do think poorly of reviving a thread without helping it. 

I think of MLS in 2 ways, one way is the "current" discussions, ongoing information. 

The other way is as a searchable database, where many answers can be found by looking, and nice discussions where lots of data and points of view are present. 

Reviving an old thread to recommend a dealer long after the problem has been dealt with does not contribute, especially since there are several such posts for the dealer all out of the blue so to speak. 

That's what I was going "huh" on... 

Greg


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