# New BIG BOY 4-8-8-4 Proto just arrived.



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Just showed up today at the Summer Steamup in Sacramento

Accucraft brought in the Proto for the BIG BOY 4-8-8-4. 

This on the production line now.

Real beauty! Will get some pictures and video posted soon!

Run real well this aftwenoon.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Hot off the pixels, and courtesy of SWMTP (She Who Must Take Pictures).


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## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

How much???


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By livesteam53 on 20 Jul 2012 10:16 PM 
Just showed up today at the Summer Steamup in Sacramento

Accucraft brought in the Proto for the BIG BOY 4-8-8-4. 

This on the production line now.

Real beauty! Will get some pictures and video posted soon!

Run real well this aftwenoon.
Sometimes it is not possible to follow was is and was is not being produced or on the production schedule if one looks at the website. Looking forward to the video. Maybe some details of operational setup, steam layout and running gear function...photos of the "guts" would be great. I would have anticipated the H8 running or the T1 (updated) to be on operation.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

According to a "Reliable Source", pricing on the Big Boy has not been finalized, but is expected to be in the range of $9K. They weren't showing it at their dealer table, no promotional material,_ nada_. I have the impression that this prototype had just come in from China, and they were more interested in giving it a shakedown run than marketing it right now.. They did have their own videographer taping the run, however.

Yes, they had the T1 running. SWMTP probably got pix, but I haven't seen them yet. Downloading more cards as I type this!


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## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

Who here is buying one?


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

In the $9,xxx range.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft already had the electric Big Boy. Minimal running gear changes, add a boiler and replace the diecast parts voila a Big Boy Steamer. When opportunity knocks, open the door.


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

The photo images don't "look right". I must have walked by the loco yesterday, but I never noticed it. Two thoughts: it is nice to see the exhaust stack variable position baffels that Aster ignored on their rendition, but the cylinder assemblies and all the side rods appear oversized and funny shaped as compared to the Aster Model [I held my laptop right alongside my model to compare].
About a year ago I visited a fellow who had the Accucraft electric powered version on his mantlepiece. This allowed me to get a good view of his model. I was not impressed. The model looked "fuzzy", more like a not-so-good "G" scale plastic 1:something knockoff. I had seen a 1:32 MTH Rail King plastic model of the prototype years ago, and I thought that was a better job.
Aster has yet to deliver a dead on model of anything. They always "pretty up" their models by changing the prototype's lines to fit the modelers view. Two glaring examples of this practice in my collection are the B-1 Baldwin 0-4-2T and the 0-6-0 Pannier; look swell, way out of scale. I never really thought of this practice with regard to my Big Boy, but now I'm suspicious that it has that "stalking Panther" look because Aster skinny-ed up, or stretched out, some of the fore to aft dimensions to increase its seduction quotient. 
In the end the Accucraft model may turn out to be a more accurate version, but it will never be the same machine-as-art-in-motion.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

WOW!! 

And not a single reference to having measured anything on ANY of the models to determine if they were in fact correct. "It just doesn't look or feel right". 

"Freddie Feelgood and his Nine Piece Band" is alive and well. To **** with the facts... they are clearly irrelevant in an MLS posting about a new product.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like it's on their web site now. $8995.00: Big Boy


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 22 Jul 2012 08:38 PM 
WOW!! 

And not a single reference to having measured anything on ANY of the models to determine if they were in fact correct. "It just doesn't look or feel right". 

"Freddie Feelgood and his Nine Piece Band" is alive and well. To **** with the facts... they are clearly irrelevant in an MLS posting about a new product. 
this only works with 1:29 scale (#2 scale on #1 gauge track) for me. it's easy to notice the 1/4" error without any point of reference.

i am most curious about how Accucraft handles... 1) the articulated steam lines and whether, 2) they correct the slide valve steam porting to make it appear as if it were a piston valve.

thanks...gary


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## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

Who's getting one?


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder why the price is so much higher than Accucraft's comparable live steam articulated offerings, like the $7k Allegheny or the $6k cab forward? Does this thing have lots of cool new features that the others don't (apart from just a couple more pairs of wheels), or are they just expecting us to pay more for the "Big Boy" name?


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Is UP still collecting a royalty for using its name?
Then again, if SP is being used it would be covered under the same trerms.


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By Shay Gear Head on 23 Jul 2012 02:18 PM 
Is UP still collecting a royalty for using its name?
Then again, if SP is being used it would be covered under the same terms.

does anyone know for sure if UP actually charges a fee (aside from the token $1) for use of their name? or is it just that they have to approve the use of the UP name thus preventing people from printing up t-shirts and hats and perhaps putting the UP name on a repainted K4s, but to allow its use on quality models of prototype equipment?

as any other active company would (try painting your computer IBM blue and see if you'll get away with it), they're only protecting their company name, logo and color designs.


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By Police1987 on 23 Jul 2012 01:45 PM 
Who's getting one? 
i've got an $11.5k balance coming up on the Aster Challenger, so not me.
will be nice to see some working Big Boy's, though.
does Accucraft publish its production totals?

cheers...gary


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aopagary on 23 Jul 2012 02:56 PM 
Posted By Police1987 on 23 Jul 2012 01:45 PM 
Who's getting one? 
i've got an $11.5k balance coming up on the Aster Challenger, so not me.
will be nice to see some working Big Boy's, though.
does Accucraft publish its production totals?

cheers...gary
I dont know if you have ever noticed Caleb roberts and me running our Big Boys at Zube. Take a look sometimes.


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By gibs035 on 23 Jul 2012 03:04 PM 
Posted By aopagary on 23 Jul 2012 02:56 PM 
...

will be nice to see some working Big Boy's, though.
does Accucraft publish its production totals?

cheers...gary
I dont know if you have ever noticed Caleb roberts and me running our Big Boys at Zube. Take a look sometimes.

yes, i have seen some recent video and you're right, i should have qualified "some more" working locos.
adding up both runs of the Aster Big Boy only totals 330 and i have a feeling many of those have never seen a fire lit.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary, a good visual for you as you wait.....most current run of Aster UP steam power: Big Boy and Challenger


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary
You could inquire with Hans but yes...

Negotiations with Union Pacific Railroad in Omaha NE are in progress to obtain the trademark licensing permit required for model manufacturers. 

4/13/2010 *Union Pacific Railroad Company grants Limited Production and Trademark Certificate to Aster Hobby.* Nothing in the way now to go forward with the project.




Posted By aopagary on 23 Jul 2012 02:33 PM 
Posted By Shay Gear Head on 23 Jul 2012 02:18 PM 
Is UP still collecting a royalty for using its name?
Then again, if SP is being used it would be covered under the same terms.

does anyone know for sure if UP actually charges a fee (aside from the token $1) for use of their name? or is it just that they have to approve the use of the UP name thus preventing people from printing up t-shirts and hats and perhaps putting the UP name on a repainted K4s, but to allow its use on quality models of prototype equipment?

as any other active company would (try painting your computer IBM blue and see if you'll get away with it), they're only protecting their company name, logo and color designs.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary
Im with you about the absence of Big Boys running. Thye may be running but we do not get to see them in action. I guess some believe the value is going to continue to rise but from what we have seen that is not the case. The one I own was left sitting on a cabinet for a number of years and those who got it when its owner passed away had no use for it. They knew what the individual had paid for it years ago and knew what current value should be but did not have desire to use the engine.
I know I have probably run my Big Boy as much or more as anyone except maybe Caleb and he has had his much longer than me. I get real enjoyment out of running her 
and have learned a few maintenace problem sloving things.Thye are just as vulnerable to breaks and mishaps as the real thing.
I look forward to the Challenger and hope you put it to good running. I plan on doing it with mine.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Andy got a clandestine video on his cell phone. It does run nice.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rwjenkins on 23 Jul 2012 02:05 PM 
I wonder why the price is so much higher than Accucraft's comparable live steam articulated offerings, like the $7k Allegheny or the $6k cab forward? Does this thing have lots of cool new features that the others don't (apart from just a couple more pairs of wheels), or are they just expecting us to pay more for the "Big Boy" name? 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*Maybe it actually has steam lines running through the articulated pipes like on the prototype, or like on the Aster model. That would add to the cost. My guess is that they are using "Cheater" silicon hosing hidden underneath for the steam supply. *


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 25 Jul 2012 08:29 AM 

*Maybe it actually has steam lines running through the articulated pipes like on the prototype, or like on the Aster model. That would add to the cost. My guess is that they are using "Cheater" silicon hosing hidden underneath for the steam supply. *



Dan and I were having a good look at that and could see some copper tubes at the front end that appeared to be travelling lengthwise between the chassis, so doubted that they were using the articulated pipes.
However, really needed to turn it over to be sure!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)




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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been using silicone tubing for years on steam models with good results. I have a kit built Garrett which has long steam lines and it works fine. I use the hobby shop supplied tubing which has a thick wall, I have received thinner wall silicone tubing from the UK which I would not use on steam supply line. I make tubing clamps by using stainless steal safety wire which seems to work well. 

Thanks 
Steve


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By steveciambrone on 25 Jul 2012 12:01 PM 
I have been using silicone tubing for years on steam models with good results. I have a kit built Garrett which has long steam lines and it works fine. I use the hobby shop supplied tubing which has a thick wall, I have received thinner wall silicone tubing from the UK which I would not use on steam supply line. I make tubing clamps by using stainless steal safety wire which seems to work well. 

Thanks 
Steve 
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*I am happy that the silicon hosing works for you (And Accucraft). The point I was making is about additional cost and the realization in how the models work. To set the BB or Challenger model up like Aster does with the articulating steam delivery requires much more engineering, parts, and.........cost. This is not even mentioning the additional fact that you can have cut-off to the cylinders in the Aster models. If you ever watch a Aster BB or Challenger run around turns realizing that steam is going through those delivery pipes while articulating it is amazing to behold. The Aster is not just a model, but with it's cut-off and true steam delivery, it's about as close as you can get to the real thing in a model. If Accucraft uses the silicone hosing and no cut-off, while looking great, its just a "Replica" of what the Aster's are. *


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, 

The Big Boy appears to be similar to the second run cab forward, but with the bypass moved out of the cab and the cylinders cross-ported. As an FYI to all, the second run of CFs was $8k -- in between the announced prices of $7k for the Allegheney and $9k for the Big Boy. 

On a different topic, Sacramento was hot but fun! 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## trainmax (Feb 16, 2008)

I have two on order


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 25 Jul 2012 01:01 PM 


*The Aster is not just a model, but with it's cut-off and true steam delivery, it's about as close as you can get to the real thing in a model. If Accucraft uses the silicone hosing and no cut-off, while looking great, its just a "Replica" of what the Aster's are. *



Hi Steve,
I am just curious!
Why can you not have cut-off on an Accucraft?
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 27 Jul 2012 08:56 AM 
Hi Steve,
I am just curious!
Why can you not have cut-off on an Accucraft?
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada 





----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/b]

Hello Dave. The reason that I implied that cut-off is not encouraged on Accucraft loco's is Because I have never seen an Accucraft with a screw type reverser, or a Johnson bar with any notches for cut-off like on Aster models. Please inform me, why does Accucraft not use reverser's that allow for cut-off on their loco's ? There must be a reason.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

The guys at Triple R reworked the valve gear on some GS-4s giving it a working combination lever allowing one to adjust for better fuel economy etc. I don't remember all the details but I think the worked with someone else on this project. Ryan or Charles may comment further. 
I think the key component here was a functional combination lever.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Steve S 

The Accucraft Cab Forward and NGG-16 WHR [SAR] Garratt use a screw reverser. My Accucraft GS-4 has two detent positions forward and reverse. Of course if you are using R/C you can have pretty fine adjustment even without the screw reverser. 

The SPEC sheet for the Big Boy on the Accucraft web site says: "Walschaert's in correct orientation for forward/reverse with screw reverser in cab". 

EDIT: Look at the right hand photo on Mark's post of 25 Jul at 10:54. The screw reverser is in the middle of the cab. It is the round thing with a hole in the center and a cross slot, the "steering wheel" [sorry...reverser] has a little rod that engages in the slot to operate the mechanism. This is exactly the same as the CF.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

The Accucraft Walscherts valve gear is a simple gear. If you look at the connection from the valve rod to the radius link you will see that it is tied directly to the radius rod instead of being connected to the combination lever. The combination lever basically is sitting there for cosmetic reasons on the models. ONLY the 2nd version of the Cab Foward and the Royal Hudson have a correct Walscherts gear from Accucraft. Ryan has modified some of the GS4 and also the early CabFowards to have a full working valve gear and I have also modified my K28 to have a full working valve gear. 

The changes required are:
New combination lever with seperate radius rod and valve rod pivots
New union link
New valve with 1mm Lap

Here is a photo of the Accucraft setup, notice that the valve rod is pinned to the radius rod










Here is the corrected setup on my K28 - essentially the same on a GS4 but smaller











Though as you see in the last photo once its all assembled you dont know the difference. Most likely reasoning whey they decided to simplify it for less parts and less accuracy needed.










*I GIVE UP WITH POSTING PHOTOS HERE - COPY AND PASTE THE LINKS* 
here is a link to my photo page with the same photos.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 28 Jul 2012 04:45 AM 
The guys at Triple R reworked the valve gear on some GS-4s giving it a working combination lever allowing one to adjust for better fuel economy etc. I don't remember all the details but I think the worked with someone else on this project. Ryan or Charles may comment further. 
I think the key component here was a functional combination lever. Jeff
We have worked on nearly several dozen origina GS4's which have improved over time (at this time we have 7 others on the work board) based on good principles of purpose of a Johnson Bar. Originally, Gordon Watson did the research and initial work as a project to better inform Accucraft of the proper setup. Accucraft has made strives with proper setup in particular with the CP Hudson that we recently convert to coal fired. 
The first run of Accucraft GS4's were designed with non-functional combination levers, as such had no effect on timing of steam events. On fast running locomotives this will cause back pressure to the boiler. To avoid unnecessary back pressure, cut-off is reduced so that steam is admitted for only 20% of the piston stroke and the remainder of the stroke is due to the expansion of the high pressure steam. The installation of working combination levers gives correct admission for cut off using the notches on the reverser. There by providing an "overdrive" for steam locomotive for better efficiency. Along with the combination levers there were other factors such as proper exhaust nozzle, steam lines, port sizes, cross porting, axle pump, wicks, timing, valves, valve stem support, better bearings (roller), handpump, We do install screw reverses if asked to do so.among the many enhancements.


GS4 Part 1 
GS4 Part 2


The Cab forward required cross porting and combination levers for the "screw reverser" to work properly:

AC12 combination levers/Crossporting


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 28 Jul 2012 07:17 AM 
Steve S 

The Accucraft Cab Forward and NGG-16 WHR [SAR] Garratt use a screw reverser. My Accucraft GS-4 has two detent positions forward and reverse. Of course if you are using R/C you can have pretty fine adjustment even without the screw reverser. 

The SPEC sheet for the Big Boy on the Accucraft web site says: "Walschaert's in correct orientation for forward/reverse with screw reverser in cab". 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Thanks Jim, I learn something new every day. 


*So..........................Back to the articulating steam delivery pipes*,







.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 28 Jul 2012 07:43 AM 


Posted By Dr Rivet on 28 Jul 2012 07:17 AM 
Steve S 

The Accucraft Cab Forward and NGG-16 WHR [SAR] Garratt use a screw reverser. My Accucraft GS-4 has two detent positions forward and reverse. Of course if you are using R/C you can have pretty fine adjustment even without the screw reverser. 

The SPEC sheet for the Big Boy on the Accucraft web site says: "Walschaert's in correct orientation for forward/reverse with screw reverser in cab". 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
You mean like this:









I have been told that the prototype Accucraft BigBoy does have a similar setup, if so Bing and Company have been noticing others efforts to improve the product.





Thanks Jim, I learn something new every day. 


*So..........................Back to the articulating steam delivery pipes*,







.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Steve 

Regarding the swiveling joints on steam pipes... 

A "very reliable source" told me that "although Aster Japan had an excellent design" that was used in the H-8, the engineer working on the Challenger project declined to just "re-use the design that worked" and wanted to invent their own solution. As a result, much time was spent reinventing the wheel. It was hard to make these work well at 1:1 scale and worse at 1:32. We accept that we don't have working feed water heaters or injectors in this scale. I am willing to accept that the physics of a "steam tight" multiple-axis swivel joint in a pipe is such that manufacturing one that will have LONG TERM RELIABILITY without significant maintenance MAY NOT be worth the cost to the importer of the model. 

My view is that people willing to buy the Accucraft model versus Aster are willing to sacrifice some of the "authenticity of design" for a locomotive that is visually correct, runs well, and costs less. 

More than one Aster model of a three cylinder locomotive was delivered without the inside cylinder and it was accepted. 

Just my opinion.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

To those who have done a retrofit to have a correct walscherts gear, Do you see a noticeable increase in performance. Or better ability to control smooth slow speed? Fuel economy? Was it worth doing aside from the fact that you know the vale gear is modeled correctly in you own mind?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 28 Jul 2012 08:08 AM 
To those who have done a retrofit to have a correct walscherts gear, Do you see a noticeable increase in performance. Or better ability to control smooth slow speed? Fuel economy? Was it worth doing aside from the fact that you know the vale gear is modeled correctly in you own mind? Yes, on models such as the Accucraft Cab forward and GS4's otherwise we would not offer the services which requires extensive shop time and labor for the retrofits. The combination lever cannot operate properly without other components (redesign valve, cross porting, exhaust, steam lines, etc). So it is more that just the position of valve gear.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 28 Jul 2012 08:03 AM 
Steve 

My view is that people willing to buy the Accucraft model versus Aster are willing to sacrifice some of the "authenticity of design" for a locomotive that is visually correct, runs well, and costs less. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







Jim, I totally agree with you. This is a large part of why Accucraft can put out so many more different models at a lower price. This is a good thing in that it has helped many more get into this great hobby.

Charles has shown (His and Ryan's work never ceases to amaze me) that anything can be done to a Accucraft Loco for a price. Some require more, some less to get to Aster's "Authenticity of Design".

A Accucraft has all the bells and whistles along with a great finish at a better price then Aster. This attracts many to their Loco's. After you get past the great looks, in many cases, you have a base line Loco that if you want it to be as "Authentic" as an Aster in all other aspects, you will have to pay much more for it to be done. And, as Charles has stated, some Accucrafts would cost so much to convert to "Authenticity" he recommends not to even do it. 

Jim, I know that you understand all of this but many new to the hobby do not. Because of this they think that Asters are way over priced when they are not. Accucrafts are good, but they have to compare Apples to Apples.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

For those that missed this thread......................here it is.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 28 Jul 2012 08:08 AM 
To those who have done a retrofit to have a correct walscherts gear, Do you see a noticeable increase in performance. Or better ability to control smooth slow speed? Fuel economy? Was it worth doing aside from the fact that you know the vale gear is modeled correctly in you own mind? 

That's kind of my read on this. Some of us like to count rivets, have totally correct working valve gear and steam pipes that function like the real one..................and some of us just like to run steam. In this scale, accurate cut off generally means nothing.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

For all of Steve's 'Aster Snob', 'holier than thou' posts, the only engine I see him run consistently when I go to his house is his Sandy River #24. "Nothing runs like a Roundhouse".







His Asters are just shelf queens.


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