# Just a note for visitors



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm tring to adjust my attitude at the moment. I just climbed out from under the new terminal removing all the station platforms simply because last nights test of Bubbas K-trouble engine was derailed. 
Matter of fact about every 20ft or so something came off the track. 
So if you come and think my track is perfect your wrong. So if you have a high dollar loco that you say my track needs fixed. then YOU can come a week early and go and adjust all the track to fit your engine. 
My engines and trains and many of the club memebers runs fine. 
So just keep that in mind. 
thank you. 
The thought of this being the last year has crossed my mind many times this month. 
And remember NO PETS and I hate scale flanges.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with you 100 percent. I have the same problem sometimes with out Guest with our Get-together and BBQ train runs. Our Group has no problems usually with there Eng's. Just the Guest sometimes.. 

I have re-leveled track and raised bridges to go under with there extend stacks and moved a few thing for wide tenders. Now not anymore.. I put to much in to my layout to change it. 

One other thing is nothing against Batt. people running but they sometime don't watch the signals/blocks being most of our trains are track powered. They run the Signals and run in to back of other trains.... Not sure how you handle your R.R. blocks sys. 

I don't think it an attitude adjustment Marty.. It just common sense. and ya our Kat's, Geese, Fish, Doves, Birds, and etc. don't like doggies or any other animals. .. laf. 

Good Post. Are we haveing fun yet???/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I visited Marty's layout a couple of years ago. My traveling engine, a GP-9, ran just fine on his layout. I would suggest that if you want to be invited back, you be tolerant of a very nice, real world, layout.


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Gawd, and I thought that *I* was the only one with a case of the azzz this year. 

Here's the deal, Marty. Your layout, your track tolerance requirements. 

If the finescale stuff won't or can't run on the NTCGRR, it ain't your problem, and shouldn't be your responsibility to fix it so they can. They shoulda brought a bigger flange... 

Frankly, I think you do quite enough to ensure that your annual Battery Powered Steam Up Melt Down is fun for your guests, and if they have any complaints, well, "Thanks for stoppin' by..." 

Or is that "bye"??? 

Hang tough, it'll be better in couple of weeks.


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## Guest (Sep 17, 2008)

Jeeeeez... sounds like someone had a bad day on the RR,/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif dont worry Marty, tommarrows another daytonight pick up a 6 pack and you'll never remember a thing HE HE HE JUST JOKING... but does that mean i cant bring my bigboy out to play? 
Nick...


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

These kinds of problems are common on all model railroads, even indoor ones. Of course the problems are multiplied considerably by being outdoors. An occasional problem guest engine shouldn't be cause for grief on your part or the guest's. Just enjoy the fellowship and share your wonderful RR with your friends and guests. Try and remember that someone's expressed dismay at their equipment's failure doesn't necessarily mean criticsm of your work. 

I welcome all guests to bring their own equipment to run on the POC if they wish. However I am definately not Mr. Smooth Track. So far everyone's locos have run pretty well with minimum problems, even a live steamer, but I have built the RR for me and will willingly share it and enjoy doing so but I won't rebuild it. 

Marty I think the only realistic approach is the "what you see is what you get" approach. I think most everybody is reasonable enough to accept that.


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty, don't stress the little stuff. Everything is little stuff. If it stresses you take a year off, either you will experience a tremendous load lifted meaning you should shut it down permanently, or you will miss it which means open it back up but cut out the "urgent unimportant" stuff that gets on your nerves.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

It is that time of the month, hehehe 
I was so happy to take photos of bubbas loco on the new line . But when it took 15 min just to get the dang engine to the location and then have it derail on the newly layed track. I was sooo disoppinted. 
Then with the new terminal , everyone asks, what if you have a derailment. I say you won't. the K-36 goes in and barly makes it out. 
This weekend my goal is to finish the 60 some feet of the new line. So we'll see. 
My busness always seems to get busier around the time I need to be off checking stuff. 

But I know after the open house I get pupped and change a bunch of stuff.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

PUPPED?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif How does one get pupped?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Marty....something i learned from my HO days on the club layout: 

THE PRICE OF THE LOCOMOTIVE DIRECTLY RELATES TO THE AMOUNT OF PROBLEMS YOU WILL HAVE WITH IT! 

I always ran Athearn locomotives (pre-Genesis)...why? They were rugged and reliable, the best thing you could buy for traveling layout service. A buddy ran old Life Like and Bachmann locos for the same reason. A fellow club member ran Brass and always gave us a hard time about our CHEAP locos. Well his brass couldn't negotiate switches, always derailed for no reason, was overly sensative to power and dirty track. All the while our CHEAP locos went round and round. 

Just remember, people pay good money for those derailments and problems, they deserve to have them./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 

Chris


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, Marty..... Don't stress over that. We all build our railroads to run our own stuff and run what we like. If a visiting locomotive won't run, tain't yer fault.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh yeah...... Remember, these are just toys... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

hehe Last fall, first time I met a switch, the pilot truck of my Annie came apart


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Hay Marty I may give you a hard time sometimes but its all in fun. Like most said its your RR your trains and they run fine. Same here I run my RR and maintain it to my standards for my pleasure. I'm sure not going to redo track for some loco that keeps derailing that belongs to some one else/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif Looking forward to a great time next week. Later RJD


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristo Live Steam Mikados have no problems.....now the Accucrafts......


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm..... I kinda feel sorry for Bubba! (No, I _completely_ agree that you shouldn't have to guarantee that your line will work for everything!) Here he has a really nice, expensive, brass K-36 and the bloody thing keeps derailing! Moreover, it keeps derailing on a pike that is perfectly acceptable for _most_ locomotives and rolling stock! Yep, it's an unfortunate truth but there _is_ a dark side to "finescale!" My AMS coaches have all been retrofitted with (*gasp!*) _LGB_ roller bearing wheel sets specifically _because_ of the larger flanges! I may love the look of prototypical finescale but I'm a realist and reliability and _runability_ trumps prototypicality (is that a word?) every time! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif


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## Kevin Miller (Jan 5, 2008)

Marty, 

You could always post this sign. 

Kevin


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Kevin, I presume grabbing a copy of that notice is okay? I like it. Nick


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## Dan Moore (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty i wont be able to make it but i will be running my Accucraft engiines with there fine scale flanges at my house where i dont have derailments. Fn3 all the way !!!!


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Only a week to go! Marty, it doesn't make any difference to me if your track is 100% or 30% or whatever. I'm just looking forward to the time off, looking at all the goodies, wandering around the track, and having great fellowship with a great bunch Garden Railroaders.

Rule # 1:

Don't sweat the small stuff.

Rule # 2:

It's ALL small stuff.

See ya in a week.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 09/17/2008 4:55 PM
I'm tring to adjust my attitude at the moment. I just climbed out from under the new terminal removing all the station platforms simply because last nights test of Bubbas K-trouble engine was derailed. 
Matter of fact about every 20ft or so something came off the track. 
So if you come and think my track is perfect your wrong. So if you have a high dollar loco that you say my track needs fixed. then YOU can come a week early and go and adjust all the track to fit your engine. 
My engines and trains and many of the club memebers runs fine. 
So just keep that in mind. 
thank you. 
The thought of this being the last year has crossed my mind many times this month. 
And remember NO PETS and I hate scale flanges.





WAH! WAH!!! WAH!!!!!!! 

Not to mention I took it over to Marty's KNOWING that his trackwork was what it is, and KNOWING that the K-36n has those STUPID prototypical flanges...he wanted me to tkae it over to test his track..and low and behold..it was EXACTLY what we ALL KNEW! 


And all he kept saying is...glad he didn't own that engine...is that gratitude? **** I knew it was not going to like his layout..it doesn't like ANY LAYOUT..unless of course it is an inside perfect layout!!!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 

But it sure looks pretty sitting on my dusty shelf!!! 

It's not the flanges but his trackwork that is the problem!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue2.gif 

Does ANYONE know what a big hassle it is to transport that K-36? hum? 

But for Marty all he has to do is ask me to do something and it will be done! 

All joking aside, we both knew what a hassle it is to try and have fun with that K-36..the BIGGEST mistake Accucraft made was make the flanges prototypical...yes I know it is made to museum standards but please..how many people that buy it have a museum layout??? 

If I wouldn't have gotten such a deal I would not of bought it!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif 


What I am looking for is an after market set of NORMAL TOY drivers to REPLACE the factory ones so I can run it and ENJOY it!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 

Does anyone know where a guy could find a set or normal larger set of drivers..or know of a guy thast could machine them down??? 

But really marty..wah! Wah!...Wah! 


Bubba


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Do you guys want an Cheese to go with all the wining?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif I can stop along the way and pick some up?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif It's no trouble.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

While frustrating, working on the track with the K would probably smooth out things so even longer trains could operate. 

But trackwork maintenance is a bunch of work, especially where you get heat, rain, snow, frost, etc. 
Just how "high" are those flanges? I thought they were "semi-scale" not actually scale. 

Regards, Greg


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Aristo and alike have about .125 flange and the Accucraft, AMS and Berlyn 20.3 have about .060 flanges. 
This is why the finescale stuff like almost perfect trackwork. 

Rodney


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Bubba, 

That's not Marty complaining is it? I thought he didn't do that, and he said I complain to much!


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 

Totally understand your frustration. I even had a "Guest" tell me my switchbacks were too short and that he had to uncouple a number of his cars to make it through. Can you imagine someone bitching like that on a layout setup for switching? People in **** want ice water, it comes with the territory. 

Look forward to being with everyone next week and enjoying your railroad as you designed it.


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 09/20/2008 6:22 AM
Bubba, 
That's not Marty complaining is it? I thought he didn't do that, and he said I complain to much! 




I've got a number of those "shelf queen" cars sitting around waiting for a cottage industry to start up to make wheels that fit with descent flanges. Anybody looking to start a business?


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 09/20/2008 6:22 AM
Bubba, 
That's not Marty complaining is it? I thought he didn't do that, and he said I complain to much!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Ok I never paid attention to flanges. I sort of make everything work not really knowing why I have to do this. 

That being said, my question is..... Are the flanges we are taling about too short or too high?


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By rgolding on 09/20/2008 6:32 AM
Posted By Trains on 09/20/2008 6:22 AM 
Bubba, 
That's not Marty complaining is it? I thought he didn't do that, and he said I complain to much! 

I've got a number of those "shelf queen" cars sitting around waiting for a cottage industry to start up to make wheels that fit with descent flanges. Anybody looking to start a business? 




Geez...I wish I could do this...I most certainly would as it is really needed! 

Bubba


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Would be nice if Accucraft would offer their engines both ways. Maybe someone should bring that up to them?


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By John J on 09/20/2008 6:50 AM
Ok I never paid attention to flanges. I sort of make everything work not really knowing why I have to do this. 
That being said, my question is..... Are the flanges we are taling about too short or too high? 




Their not big enough like the USA or Aristo or thre NEW Bachman so it doesn't take vety much side to side track varience to make the driver come off the track...so if you tighten the screws down tight on your trackage, or your roadbed is not PERFECTLY flat and straight, you get the occasional dip on either side of the track, and the drivers do not have the side to side play as the other engines do..they are pretty ridged, so when the track dips the driver carrage does not...couple that with the shallow flanges and..boy do you have NO fun running it!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 

BUT it sure is pretty sitting collecting dust on my shelf. 

Bubba


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By rgolding on 09/20/2008 6:32 AM
Posted By Trains on 09/20/2008 6:22 AM 
Bubba, 
That's not Marty complaining is it? I thought he didn't do that, and he said I complain to much! 

I've got a number of those "shelf queen" cars sitting around waiting for a cottage industry to start up to make wheels that fit with descent flanges. Anybody looking to start a business? 




Now you have proof that it is not you that always complains but Marty! 

Bubba


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Dan Moore on 09/18/2008 8:52 PM
Marty i wont be able to make it but i will be running my Accucraft engiines with there fine scale flanges at my house where i dont have derailments. Fn3 all the way !!!! 





No that's correct you go to OTHER peoples houses and wreck, and derail their stuff!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 

Don't you think your box full of old parts came from SOMETING? Oh yea that's right it just appeared on day./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 


You know I love ya Dan!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/kiss.gif 


Ya know since you really haven't made MANY meetings, don't ya think you should drop by Marty's so's we remember what ya look like...even with homely a guy starts to forget what that looks like:/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 


Forgetful in Bellevue 
Bubba


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, Dan who? We have a Dan in the club?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

You want to run the good stuff. Track work track work is all I can say Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

any one can get 300 ft of track to work good, try 2300 plus hand made switches etc. 
enough said about that, run what you want. 
I got the shop cleaned up now , and clearing parking space.


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

It seems that we could get Gary Raymonds to produce a large flanged wheel that fits AMS stuff, but he is too much a purist for us rable. Bachmann did it on their 1:20.3 stuff, you'd think AMS or Accucraft would. And I agree Marty, the more track you have the more it has to take care of itself. All tracks get at least stepped on once a year. What more does it want?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I was out "switching" cars into storage to make room for visitors. Only two derailments and I think it was because of light bulk head flats pushing USAT tankers etc. I also realized I do need that other double cross over at the south end of Golding. Going all the way around is a pain.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, this thread got me thinking (a dangerous pastime!) and I decided to check my track's levelness. Hmmm..... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif methinks we _might_ have a slight problem.... Marty may be right in that anyone can level 300 ft. of track but it still takes an effort _especially_ if you want it level enough to run Accucraft flanges! Considering the effort it took I don't envy Marty! It's level now but I had this one curve that my Connie's tender just wouldn't go through without derailing! I couldn't figure out what was wrong! I tried everything and nothing worked! The Connie's tender was the only piece of rolling stock that wouldn't navigate that curve. It was maddening!!! I finally decided that it was easier (and probably better for my sanity) to just replace that section of track. Afterward, no problems! I still say that replacing the wheels with overlarge flanged LGB ones made more sense!


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Just wanted to point out ... if the roadbed is built of something solid (like a pt 2x6 for example or a strong ladder), that it is a lot easier to level the track and once level it tends to stay level. Notice how folks always say that a switch should be placed on a hard surface to keep it nice and level laterally? If the idea is good for switches think how effective it is for all the track! 

Of course, the track should be fastened to the roadbed to get the greatest advantage. You say you need for heat expansion so the curves have to float??!! Clearly some expansion joints at the rail joiners do the trick easily but you are concerned about electrical continuity across those joints? Hmmm ... you do use battery RC don't you? 

Those semi scale flanges should not be any problem on properly installed and maintained track. 

Regards ... Doug


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Flanges? Flanges?! We don't need no steenking flanges!!!!








BTW nice to see the new post format is up. Wooo Hooooooooo!!!!!!!


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