# New Track Plan for the BRR



## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I met with Axel at the show on Saturday to pick up 3 sets of the new R7 nickle switches and 2 sets of the R3's, man they are very nice looking switches. I also picked up one of his rail benders.
He spent several hours with me and he had some great ideas for my new layout. I wanted to get your input on the latest Track plan I have for the BRR.

This is where is phase one will be built it is 64'x15'



























And this is the revised trackplan, the center serpentine will be elevated 12" and will be going around/through mountains of some kind or another. The rear part outer track is the mail line, with the two sidings/passing lane (that area is planned on being obstructed from viem from the front). The front section will have the rail yard with the outer mainline highspeed through way, and also a highspeed transition to the inner line. 










Any suggestions or tips will be welcomed.
Thanks, Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Well I guess it would help if I had posted the right pic of the track plan huh








Here is the correct pic

bods6elevated.png[/b] 

(Image exceeds 800 pixels in width changed to link, SteveC)[/i]


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Oh ok Sry let's try again,
I am surprised nobody has any thoughts on the design, is it perfect?







, or did I post it in the wrong area?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like fun, but I'd smooth out the 2 "S" curves in the middle, does not look like you have any straights in between. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That S curve in the middle bugs me--is it going around some obstacle? The whole thing looks a bit too symetrical to me--I would break up that S curve, because to my eye the layout looks too muchlike it was designed on paper rather than designed around terrain


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 29 Mar 2010 10:52 PM 
That S curve in the middle bugs me--is it going around some obstacle? The whole thing looks a bit too symetrical to me--I would break up that S curve, because to my eye the layout looks too muchlike it was designed on paper rather than designed around terrain 

Well I was planing on dropping 3 giant boulders inbetween the curves so it would look like the train is going around some mountains. The center section will be elavated 12" using a trestle system with some girder bridges where it crosses over the tracks.


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## hawkfanjohn (Nov 17, 2009)

that's some nice vinyl fence you have there~ do I detect triple crown fence?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

While your drawing shows grass on the fence side your pics don't. Are the two sidings there for making up trains? Looking over your boulders and trestle will make it hard to utilize those tracks. Access there will be hard too, I try to avoid stepping over trestles and bridges and your dual tracks around the ponds takes away foot steps. One of the most common spots for derailments is on switches. 
Geg mentioned the reverse curves; 
Reverse curves need to have a straight section as long as your longest piece of rolling stock between the curves, has to do with tracking and the way the couplers work causing derailments. 

Perfect? How you gonna learn if it's perfect? lol I've learned a lot building mine.... If you like it, it's perfect for you. 

As Lownote noted it looks like a table top railroad rather than one running through a garden or landscape. To each his own... I couldn't wait to play in the dirt! 

Stay between the rails, 

John


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Glade to hear you decided to move the yard to the front of the layout. I think you will be a lot happier with it there. I'd also question the S curves which if not done correctly could be problematic. Later RJD


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

Looks like your ponds have +/- 10' diameters. That may be too sharp a grade for your looping track overcrossings.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I think its all level flat, using X cross overs, no overhead crossings, add at the least a 12" striaght between each change of direction on those reverse S curves or risk derailments from the coupler swing pushing the cars off the track. 

It does look like fun, I like the idea of adding boulders around the curved track in the center would be a good addition and give the trains some terrain to move thru


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Personally, I think you've got way too much track, and it's very rigid. There's not enough open space for the train to run solo through the landscape. It's either on a curve or going through a three - five-track passing siding. Shorten your passing sidings to be just long enough to hold what you think will be your average train, (15' - 20' max) and give the landscape some room to breathe; space for the train to be out on its own. On a railroad the size of yours, I think a train over 10 - 12 cars would start to make the railroad look very small. My railroad is 65' wide, and anything over 8 cars long begins to look like it's taking up too much space. There's no place for the train to go--it's always "there." 

I'd also lose the 5th track in from the front. Let the inside loop connect to the outside loop on track 4 instead. This gives you more space between the front and the back for landscaping. Your widest expanse is a mere 5'. You'll be amazed at how quickly that can fill in with plants and landscaping, especially when you're planning a 12" elevation change. 

Also, put some space between the front edge of the garden and the first track. My personal pet peeve with garden railroads is track that follows right along the front edge of the landscaping. That makes the track look like it's part of the retaining wall as opposed to part of the garden behind it. Set it back about a foot or so, and put some plants between the front edge and the track. If you can work a gentle curve in, by all means do. (Flex track is your friend.) Just because the garden is rectangular and the ponds symmetrical, there's no reason for your railroad to be anywhere near as predictable. 










In this shot, the track is about 12" from the edge of the railroad. Not all that deep, but enough to put some landscaping in to separate the railroad from the edge of the garden. 










This shot illustrates how a gentle curve can add some visual interest to the garden. It doesn't have to be much, just enough to not be a straight line. The garden itself is very much a straight line at this point, bordering the edge of the patio on one side, and the rock retaining wall on the other. The entire scene is around 30" wide. 

My advice--loosen things up. A lot. Give yourself and your trains room to breathe, to stretch their legs. Give the garden landscape room to grow and balance the track and the trains. Put away the track templates and paper, and go out to the garden with a garden hose, some track, and some trains to see how much space they'll really take up. I think you'll be surprised at what you come up with as a result. 

Later, 

K


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By hawkfanjohn on 30 Mar 2010 12:52 AM 
that's some nice vinyl fence you have there~ do I detect triple crown fence? Nope is Bufftech fencing, style is Manchester concave.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 30 Mar 2010 01:01 AM 
While your drawing shows grass on the fence side your pics don't. Are the two sidings there for making up trains? Looking over your boulders and trestle will make it hard to utilize those tracks. Access there will be hard too, I try to avoid stepping over trestles and bridges and your dual tracks around the ponds takes away foot steps. One of the most common spots for derailments is on switches. 
Geg mentioned the reverse curves; 
Reverse curves need to have a straight section as long as your longest piece of rolling stock between the curves, has to do with tracking and the way the couplers work causing derailments. 

Perfect? How you gonna learn if it's perfect? lol I've learned a lot building mine.... If you like it, it's perfect for you. 

As Lownote noted it looks like a table top railroad rather than one running through a garden or landscape. To each his own... I couldn't wait to play in the dirt! 

Stay between the rails, 

John The drawing was centered a bit so it would be easier to see, the fence does back up to the rear of the layout. The layout has a wall unit giving an 8 or 9 inch walk way around the entire layout. 
The front sidings will be the railyard area, I was planning on using the rear sidings as just parking area's for completed trains so one can drive in while the next one departs.

Thanks for the heads up on the center curves I didn't know that. I will have to come up with something different then. 
The perfect thing was a joke, just trying to poke the bears a bit to get some input


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

The center section uses 11.5 ft radius curves is that to tight?, if so other than adding straights to it what is the Min radius curve where I wont have the derailing issues from the coupler trasition? 
Ron


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

11.5 should work fine. It's your RR as you said so make do and all is well. Later RJD


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

That depends on the equipment you want to run. All modern, big diesels and long cars? Could 'look' small. Smaller engines and cars? Mighty roomy! 

All my mainline is 10' d, but I'm running turn of the last century and in 1:24 so my shorter and narrower cars/ trains are better at stayimg over the ties than the 1:29 I have. 

Minimun radius/diameter depends on your locos.... 

I got the perfect joke, but we learn from our mistakes, I've learned a lot.... 

John


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

The Min dia curve on the layout will be 11.5FT going up to 14ft on the outside of the ponds. 
The 5 main trains will be a USA GG1 pulling a 5 car USA Congressional set, an Aristo FA+FB pulling a 5 car USA Broadway limited set, a Aristo Mallet pulling 18 3bay coal cars with caboose, and a Aristo Pacific pulling a 5 car Aristo heavyweight set, and lastly a Aristo Dash 9, or Aristo SD45, or Aristo U25 pulling a 16 car reefer train with caboose. 

All of these can be adjusted as needed of course to fit conditions. 

I think what I'll do is add that center "S" section to my indoor test track going around the basement and see how the trains react to it. 

Thanks for all the tips/suggestions so far they have be very helpful and incite full, and am sure saving me some headaches down the line. 

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you have those S curves, just try them with your USAT streamliners, pulled by your Dash 9, you will be convinced in the first lap! 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Well I did some test runs on the center "S" section using the USA Aluminum Streamliners cars and I see what you all were talking about. 
The point at which the cars transition from one direction of the curve to the next creates a jogging between the cars (they look like they are staggered side by side).
While the cars did not derail it did look very strange and could be a problem down the line. 
To correct this issue I added an 18" straight at each transition point and that fixed the problem and I think I am good to go now.

Thanks for the help guys, Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Well changed a few things on the layout to free up some space. I moved the cross-over to the rear of the layout and moved the the highspeed bypass a little closer to the railyard.
I also added the boulders with more features/obstacles comming as I think them up


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Here is the revised track plan, it will allow more space for acents to the layout, and still keep the seperate lines I wanted.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Am getting closer to a final design now, after further observations with test track placement this weekend I think I am almost there.
Here is where I'm at now. I moved the highspeed bypass further from the railyard and added a little town in front with a train station, and changed up the crossover in the rear (may or may not stay that way).










Here is a view in 3d with RR track, note those are all piko/pola buildings from aristo.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Ron:

This is nicely shaping up. I love the looks of the town, and potentially one could even consider PVC board (sign board) behind the house row, which is painted to give the town even more depth, and I would actually cut a silhouette in the board. So one set of houses and then a fake set through a backdrop mounted at poles that are set into the ground?

In the back, I still believe for a high speed interchange I would seperate the switch section out - one in the beginning of the parallel tracks and one at the end. This eliminates the "suspender" setup. I see cross overs more used in stations then in the running track and I know that I have a cross over in my section and if it is not 100% level it is a point of concern (and I wish I could eliminate it out of my plans - but that doesn't work). 

So how do others feel? I think "If you don't have to - don't do it". And oyu have enough room to seperate it out.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Nice design. I like the town in it's location between the high speed siding and the railyard. Axel's idea for a backdrop is a good one. My own version of a backdrop would be plantings of some sort. Large enough bushes and/or flowers to obscure the tracks near the fence, but no taller than the white fence.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Here is the other way I am thinking of doing the rear crossover. I am leaning on doing it this way for ease of operation and less maintenance as opposed to the standerd double crossover.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Ron:

This is my preferred implementation.


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Just a quick note to Bob about the fantastic work you have done with the foundation, fountains and layout! Gives me some ideas that I had not considered too.

Very







,


Rick


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I layed out my roadbed today after much thought, research and advice from people like Axel from Train-li. 
In deciding on what type of roadbed I was going to use it had to meet several paramters. I wanted something that wil last a long time, be relatively low cost, and not require constant work to maintain.
After trying out several meathods for a road bed I went with a 3 inch crush and run base with a 1 inch cruser fine leveled top. The roadbed area was preped using a powered tamper and leveled. I then put down several thin layers of crush and run, being wet and tamped inbetween layers to give me a solid base about 3" thick. The last part was a 1" layer of crusher fines that was tamped and leveled, givng me a a solid firm roadbed that you can walk on. It should be more than enough to support my railroad for a long time to come.

Here are the pics,


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## Robert (Jan 2, 2008)

EBT - Kevin 

You make a great point about not following the perimeter of the garden. I'm not agreeing with you because I was also that clever but rather so others will consider this point. I have an extended length of my railway that did exactly that, followed the edge of the garden. For the longest time I couldn't understand why I didn't like the look of the railway as much as I thought I should. One day my wife insisted on adding a specimen in the middle of this right of way. It was therefore necessary for me to rip up some rail. While it was up, I took the opportunity to address another issue. The track in one spot was stepped on regularly when tending to part of the garden. It wasn't really being damaged since it was just my wife who would typically step there and she is quite carfeful but it wasn't ideal for the trackwork or her footing. So a new plant and a new stepping stone forced the track to angle away from the edge of the garden for a while then arc back. This very simple change greatly enhanced the visual effect of the railway in this area. The plant and the stepping stone gave the curve a reason for being so it doesn't look contrived. Sorry I have no before and after photos. To all those in the planning stages can I strongly suggest heeding Kevin's points.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

To each his own I suppose. 
I'm not really into gardening and want the focus of my railroad to be the trains themselves and not the garden. 
Eventually there will be a full town with a station, along with a mountain with a tunnel and waterfall that will run into the left most pond. 
I also plan on building a cable car system that will span the entire lenth of the railroad crossing both ponds with pillers on each of the boulders.


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## Robert (Jan 2, 2008)

"To each his own.." You are so right BodsRailRoad. I would never suggest anything but. Looks like your making great progress too.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks, I have been taking my time asking questions and soaking up all the advice and suggestions I can from everyone here and in the business.
I am trying to get it right the first time around


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm? Stone Mountain park? Tram and trains! Was there last summer for a short visit. Could not stay for the laser show but got to ride the train! That may be a neat idea for your tramway! 

Chas


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