# Aristo Switcher ran first time and then not again



## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

I started up my Aristo live steam Swicher 0-4-0 and ran it yesterday after the first ignition burn for about 5 minutes. My pressure gauge is not working, so I waited until the butane fuel was 1/4 left before opening throttle. It ran nicely both forward and reverse with all sounds operational after discharging oily water mix from front cylinders.

I was unable to get it to ignite the 2nd time, until I removed the butane supply line from the tender and very briefly injected butane to free up a likely frozen up line there. I also had checked the jet in nozzle from the boiler and it was clear. I am using Weller butane fuel.

The 3rd time, ignition took place with butane flowing again. However first steam and then smoke arose from the smokestop, so I stopped the butane supply. This steam and smoke was repeated several times after ignitions with more shut downs and butane refills, while making throttle adjustments to get it positioned to hold steam. I decided it was time to replace the water in the well, distilled water in the boiler (verly slight oil sheen on top surface), and add steam oil.

The 5 or 6th time, ignition caused a blue flame outside the smoke stack, which I blew out to avoid damage to the plastic. This was repeated a few more times.

No more steam or smoke arose from the stack with good heat rising after ignition, perhaps 10th time. Still no pressure showing (not working?) on the gauge and no motion when I moved the throttle Fast for forward and back to Slow for reverse. Yes, the boiler was hot to the touch. I decided it was time again to replace the water in the well and distilled water in the boiler (verly slight oil sheen on top surface).

I checked the bolt holding the pressure gauge line to the boiler and found it not very tight. I took the bolt and its gaskets off, marked where the hole was located on the bolt head and tightened it all down with proper hole alignment to the line for the pressure gauge.

Once again, no more steam or smoke arose from the stack with good heat rising after ignition, perhaps 15th time. Still no pressure showing (still not working?) on the gauge and no motion when I moved the throttle Fast for forward and back to Slow for reverse. The boiler was hot to the touch. 

After several hours attempting to run it a 2nd time, I stopped trying and hope that someone here has a simple fix to this problem. 

Bryan


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Non-working pressure gauges seem to be a common problem on Aristo live steamers. Contact Aristo about that, they should be able to send you a replacement. Without a working pressure gauge, a good indication that your engine is ready to go is when the safety valve lifts. I know on the Mikado the saftey vents downwards below the boiler, instead of upwards as on most other live steamers. I'm guessing they set up the 0-4-0 the same way (the instruction manual should tell you where it is). When you start to see a lot of steam blowing out of there, you should be ready to run. 

A little bit of steam and smoke coming from the stack is normal when you're firing up, especially if the engine is still wet from the previous run. There will be water and residual steam oil in the smokebox and the exhaust tube, so the water will turn to steam and the steam oil will burn off producing a light blue smoke. You'll also hear some "snap, crackle & pop" as this happens. This is also normal. 

An oil sheen on the water in the boiler could mean that your throttle isn't fully closed. As the boiler cools and all the steam condenses back into water, it creates a vacuum. If your throttle is open, this vacuum can draw oily water from the cylinders back into the boiler. On the other hand, being a new engine, the sheen could also be some kind of residue left over from the manufacturing process. Try filling and emptying the boiler a couple times to flush it out, and see if that helps. A light sheen probably won't hurt anything anyway, but it could lead to foaming in the water, which can cause priming (water being carried into the cylinders) which will cause performance problems. 

I'm not sure why it's not moving when you open the throttle. It could just be that you're trying too soon and it hasn't built up enough pressure yet. It could be an electronics problem with the control system. I had the throttle control jam up on my Mikado. When you try to open the throttle on your remote (or the buttons on the tender), do you see the actual throttle valve on the engine moving?


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

Perhaps, throttle control is jammed up on my Switcher. When I open the Fast throttle on your remote (or the buttons on the tender), I do not know where to look to see the actual steam throttle valve on the engine moving, but I hear a mechanical noise. I searched its manual and did not find any picture showing the location of the throttle valve for steam control. I will look underneath to see if it is there.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Typically the throttle valve is located on the back of the boiler, or on top of the boiler in the cab. Looking at pics of the 0-4-0, it appears they have put it somewhere else, but I'm not quite sure where. The throttle is a valve on the boiler that admits steam to the cylinders, and it will be driven by a mechanical linkage from an electric motor. Follow the steam pipe from the cylinders and it should lead you right to it (there is a second steam pipe that leads to the lubricator, the dummy air tank on the side of the engine where you put the steam oil). There will be a "mechanical noise" when you change the throttle setting, that's the motor moving the throttle valve, but it should only last for a moment. If there's a continuous noise (maybe with a clicking noise too), then you've got a problem. On my Mikado, the throttle was in the traditional position on the back of the boiler, so when the throttle control jammed, I was able to disconnect it and run without the R/C by opening and closing the throttle valve with my fingers. It looks like that's not really an option on the 0-4-0.


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

I removed the pressure gauge and blew it out with can of compressed air, but still had no reading above zero for needle after several more fills and burns of butane. 

The safety valve never pops, although the two front pistons and boiler are both very hot after burning butane for 15 minutes after each fill and change out of well water. The flame is most recently staying in the boiler now with each ignition. 

I previously check the jet and found it clear. Given the amount and short time for burning butane after each fill, I do not believe it is related to blockage of butane supply. 

I also checked the throttle with low enough pressure for a single loop around the track and observed forwarding, stopping and reversing. 

Without a pressure reading, I am not sure what to try next? 

Bryan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Get the pressure gauge, you're pretty much flying blind w/o it. 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Call Navin at Aristo and see if they have a replacement gauge. I'm a little puzzled as to you not seeing or hearing of any steam release from the safety valve. Deffinatley need the gauge to see what is happening and we can go from there. Later RJD


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Get the pressure gauge replaced pronto! Like Greg said you are flying blind. I would also be concerned that the safeties aren't working either. How long did you wait to see if the pressure EVER came up? At what pressure are the safeties "set to pop"?


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## aankus (Jan 5, 2008)

I just ran my aristo mikado @ Diamondhead and experienced similiar problems... 
having experts available like Norm Saley et al, helped tremendously in rectifying the problems. 
Remember, this was a brand new Mikado....on first steamup it was found that after initial filling 
the butane could not be turned off.... found that the valve handle was loose, not allowing the 
valve to fully close, problematic when live fire locomotives were close by... then the butane filler 
valve tip broke off in the refill canister tip....could not refill the tank in order to run... 
fortunately found a replacement @ DH. The 'sight glass' is a total POS, not indicating whether 
the boiler was MT or full. On one occasion I unknowingly over filled the boiler thereby not allowing 
for appropriate space for steam generation. The burner was lit but no steam was generated due to it being over filled 
thus no pressure reading on the gauge...this went on for aprox 10-15 minutes...only after regurgitating thru 
the stack while pushing the locomotive forward breaking the 'hydrolock' did steam finally appear having ejected 
enough water from the boiler to allow for its generation. When I finally got it to run the regulator froze up and fuel starved 
the locomotive...warm water bath did help, but was a pain in the arse and upon consultation with the experts a direct crossover 
with elimination of the regulator and restrictive ID fuel line resulted in proper and long running performance..without a water bath ! 
I really did enjoy the piezo electric ignition however, having spent countless precious minutes trying to fire my Asters & AC Loks. 

I did call aristo twice and e-mailed them with pictures describing these problems without receiving a response to date..... 
really disturbing for a previously 'loyal' consumer. 

ENJOY YOUR STEAMING EXPERIENCE !!! I DID.... 

The Mike actually ran very well after the necessary modifications, not wihtstanding the lack of response by AC


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

aankus i thank you have hit the nail on the head over fill, he has not tested the pressure gage to see if it works but it will 
not if over filled, pop off are set at about 40 psi ,i do not have a gage on my shay works fine.


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

I have roller bearings that raise the engine off the tracks. I removed the pressure gauge a second time and blew it out againn with can of compressed air, but still had no reading above zero for needle after several more fills and burns of butane. I have run over 6 oz of butane through it since the first run with only the one loop of running afterwards about 10 fills ago.

The safety valve still never pops, although the two front pistons and boiler are both very hot after burning butane for 15 minutes after each fill and change out of well water. The flame is most recently staying in the boiler now with each ignition. I have blown out the blue flame beyond the top of the smokestack and always have observed an orange/yellow glow inside the boiler from this stack.

Given the approximately 15 minute time for burning butane after each fill, I do not believe it is related to blockage of butane supply, but I may be wrong here given the butane problem after my first run.

I will send an e-mail to Navin at Aristo-Craft repairs to obtain a new pressure gauge and get help to start running again.

Bryan


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## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

You may still be burning too far into the smokebox. There should be no red glow looking down the stack. You appear to be boiling water - the question is where is it going? Condensate or steam should be coming out somewhere. Have you tried the old cold mirror trick? If the switcher is like the Mikado, you should be able to unscrew the front plate on the smokebox and then see the actual flame location.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Best way to prevent smoke box fires in the Mike is to slip a 2" brass sleeve over the smokebox end of the burner. Just slice down a piece of brass tubing slightly smaller than the burner tube size.









Later on, I thought maybe this was not doing anything, first firing after removing it I got a smokebox fire, so put it back on and it has been fine since. Up to you though.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 30 Jan 2011 12:11 PM 
Best way to prevent smoke box fires in the Mike is to slip a 2" brass sleeve over the smokebox end of the burner. Just slice down a piece of brass tubing slightly smaller than the burner tube size.









Later on, I thought maybe this was not doing anything, first firing after removing it I got a smokebox fire, so put it back on and it has been fine since. Up to you though. 


Jerry
Different burner setup....if I can find it in my archives I will post the design


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## bobh5 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a 040 engine like you have and I had to send it back to be fixed two times. the first time the electric controls would not control the engine. the second time I could not get only 10 lbs of steam pressure while running which is not enough . It was all it would do was pull it self. they sent me a new engine and this one seem to run good. All I ever ran it was on roller I will be able to tell more was this snow is gone. 
Bob


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

Posted By gwscheil on 30 Jan 2011 08:37 AM 
You may still be burning too far into the smokebox. There should be no red glow looking down the stack. You appear to be boiling water - the question is where is it going? Condensate or steam should be coming out somewhere. Have you tried the old cold mirror trick? If the switcher is like the Mikado, you should be able to unscrew the front plate on the smokebox and then see the actual flame location. What is the "old cold mirror trick?"

Bryan


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

Posted By Dick413 on 25 Jan 2011 06:26 AM 
aankus i thank you have hit the nail on the head over fill, he has not tested the pressure gage to see if it works but it will 
not if over filled, pop off are set at about 40 psi ,i do not have a gage on my shay works fine. 
Good news. Tonight, I leaned the supply of butane and am now both seeing and hearing steam release from the safety valve, so it is working. I am still not seeing any reading on the pressure gauge.

My live steam switcher ran two times for 15 minutes with the butane supply set at 1 o'clock. This butane supply setting is much leaner than when it was not running during my more recent attempts. 

Bryan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My guess is that you had the fire in the smokebox, and were not generating steam, but lots of heat near the cylinders. 

There's been some great suggestions here, I learned a lot, especially about having too much water in the boiler and not enough room for steam. 

Greg


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## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

Yep, the little critters can be puzzling at times. Usually when I do discover the cause it is "duh" time. 

The cold mirror trick will show condensation if there is water vapor hitting it. A standard method in mystery stories to see if the victim is really dead. Same as the cold eyeglasses entering a warm, humid room.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bdelmo on 30 Jan 2011 07:37 PM 
Posted By Dick413 on 25 Jan 2011 06:26 AM 
aankus i thank you have hit the nail on the head over fill, he has not tested the pressure gage to see if it works but it will 
not if over filled, pop off are set at about 40 psi ,i do not have a gage on my shay works fine. 
Good news. Tonight, I leaned the supply of butane and am now both seeing and hearing steam release from the safety valve, so it is working. I am still not seeing any reading on the pressure gauge.

My live steam switcher ran two times for 15 minutes with the butane supply set at 1 o'clock. This butane supply setting is much leaner than when it was not running during my more recent attempts. 

Bryan


Bryan

"I leaned the supplly of butane," not sure what that means but might be that you bled of the liquid gas prior to engaging the flame (Y/N)?


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

Posted By Charles on 31 Jan 2011 08:08 AM 
Bryan

"I leaned the supplly of butane," not sure what that means but might be that you bled of the liquid gas prior to engaging the flame (Y/N)?


I will try to provide a clarification on what I meant above.

I opened the valve in the tender for controlling butane supply to the boiler only a small amount, perhaps 1/2 inch or less, to "lean the supply of butane." This is where I ignited the butane each time. After the first run, I kept gradually opening the butane value more to approximately 1 inch trying to get more supply of butane to heat up the water in the boiler to make steam and get pressure for running. However, richening the supply of butane with yellow/orange color in the stack did not help, as there was inadequate steam to run it.

The butane value position is now at approximately 1 o'clock looking at the side of the tender with the well drain facing me for proper heating with no observable color flame inside the stack. Previously, the butane value position was moved open counter clockwise over many attempts to approximately 10 o'clock, which did not work.

This information would be helpful for a newbie like me if presented in the instruction manual or elsewhere for troubleshooting.

Keeping a lean supply of butane for a hotter flame in the correct location of the boiler worked!

Bryan


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bryan
Suggestion, prior to lighting the gas jet, remove it (especially after a fill of gas tank) and bled to accumulation of liquid which will because the flame not to pop back onto the burner in the fire box.


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

Posted By Charles on 31 Jan 2011 08:44 AM 
Bryan
Suggestion, prior to lighting the gas jet, remove it (especially after a fill of gas tank) and bled to accumulation of liquid which will because the flame not to pop back onto the burner in the fire box.


Charles, I removed the gas jet from the boiler and bled it with small supply of butane after filling the tender with butane. It gave me two more nice runs this afternoon. I just need a replacement pressure gauge to completely resolve everything now. I checked your TRS web site and see that you (Mt. Holly, NJ) are not that far away from me (West Chester, PA). I lived in Marlton, NJ for 5 years before moving 14 years ago acroos the river. Bryan


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bryan
Most of us in the eastern coastal region will be at the steamup in Scranton PA @Steamtown located in the Trolley Museum on President's Day weekend. Come by with the switcher and we can check it plus you'll have some run time and meet quite a few hobbyists in and around your location...


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

Charles, 
I was just in Scranton this past Thursday evening for stay over at the Radisson Lackawanna Hotel and Friday visit to Steamtown for first time after a ski trip in upper NY. I have been a member of the SEPGRS for over 10 years and have attended several Large Scale Shows in York. 

Where could I find informaiton on the Pennsylvania Garden Railway Society, which I am not familiar, so I could join you over President's Day weekend?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bdelmo on 31 Jan 2011 04:13 PM 
Charles, 
I was just in Scranton this past Thursday evening for stay over at the Radisson Lackawanna Hotel and Friday visit to Steamtown for first time after a ski trip in upper NY. I have been a member of the SEPGRS for over 10 years and have attended several Large Scale Shows in York. 

Where could I find informaiton on the Pennsylvania Garden Railway Society, which I am not familiar, so I could join you over President's Day weekend? Bryan
The Aikenback Live Steamers is a loosely organized group of live steam hobbyists (PA, NJ VA, MD, NY) that do not require membership. There are various ventures the group comes together at to enjoy our live steam engines. After Steamtown our next gathering will be at the Pennsylvania Live Steamers in Rahn Pa. just outside of King of Prussia. You might consider joining that organization. Mike Moore is a member here on MLS contact him.


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