# tree drama



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Saturday night, we had quite a wind storm. And in the middle of the night, one of our large pines snapped, taking out two more pines, all of which fall on our neighbor's property. We and our neighbors are really thanking God, because all three trees fell within a tiny slot where no damage was done. One of the trees could have, for example, crashed through their nursery... I shudder to think about what might have happened.

This was the first time one of these pines had fallen, but neither I nor Curtis (my neighbor) wanted to take further risks. It was a nice grove, but time to thin it out.

I got a great quote from a local tree company, and they responded the next day. It was a two-day operation to clear the 3 fallen trees, and remove 5 more. We may decide to remove more later, but this seemed enough for a first pass. 

So, it cost some money, and some shade. But no one was hurt, no property was damaged. And I have tons (literally) of wood "edging" disks (they chopped the logs into 1' sections for me), and 2 huge piles of pine chip mulch. And, I'll have a lot fewer needles to blow off the layout.

If anyone else has had tree drama this spring, feel free to share.

Cliff


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

It's sad to see mature trees down. I'm in southern NJ, and one of my coworkers told me a bunch of pines were knocked down recently. Seems like this is happening more often than I remember.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I agree, I definitely had mixed emotions when I saw these trees felled. They were part of a windbreak planted by a farmer a century ago maybe (reminds me, I need to count the rings), and that old thick line of pines is quickly disappearing from our neighborhood.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Plant replacements, keep it going for future generations!
Rick


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Last year in the wind our big pine tree blew over and was on/against the neighbor's house/roof at the new picture window. It did no damage and the house was being remodeled so the neighbor wasn't living there and never knew it happened until I told him.

I had a clean-up crew out the next day.

Squirrels can add to the problem as they undermine the trees.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

You bet Rick, we'll be working with our neighbors to figure out what to plant instead. At a minimum we'll need a new sight block row between our homes. But we'll be avoiding species that can grow to over 4 times the height of our houses, haha!

Todd, that sounds like another close call that turned out well. With us, it was my neighbor who heard the wind, crack and crash; I slept through the whole thing. He knocked on my door the next morning to point out the matter.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

They look like they were very crowed, grew tall with small diameter, look like White Pine, can grow pretty quickly.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

I agree with Mike, they look like White Pines. I have five similar trees on each side if my yard in Virginia. My guess is that they are closer to 40 years old rather than 100. The answer is in the rings.

Glad there was no damage other than to the wallet.

Chuck

Note added.

White Pines have branches that come out at regular intervals as you go up the tree. Each year a new group of branches sprouts out. It is similar to counting rings. The gap between each group of branches represents one year of growth. By counting and estimating the number of branch groupings going up the tree, in your second picture, to the right of the one with the tree surgeon I estimate about 35-40 branch intervals. This fits with my earlier estimate, of about 40 years old.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a place in Wrightwood, CA in the San Bernardino Mountains here in So. Cal. Built by my grandfather in 1924 and had it in our family ever since. I have a tenant in the cabin now, 70 yr. old lady with two old dogs. Real mountain person from Montana. Well this last year just before Christmas, we had very strong desert winds blow through the canyon where Wrightwood is located. About 5 AM on the 22nd of December, one of my neighbor's huge pine trees was blown down. The tree is at least ten feet INSIDE his property line and the top of the tree fell across two 50 foot lots I own and into the third lot by more than 30 feet (according to So. California Edison who had a few power poles and lines taken out by this monster. Edison estimated the tree was over 140 feet tall and about 4-1/2 to 5 feet in diameter.








In this Google Earth ground level shot, look in the center of the picture, up the dirt drive and you can see very tall, majestic pines (almost twins). The one on the left is the one that fell. On the extreme left hand side of the photo, you see just the corner of one of my second floor bedrooms. The fallen tree stretched across my one vacant lot (50 feet wide) from the house right ahead in the Google shot. Fell through and destroyed my fence in that yard, across another 50 foot wide lot behind my cabin and then came to rest with it's tip 35-40 feet inside the third lot. Power was lost to over 400 homes in the Wrightwood community with the loss of these power lines. You can see how close the cabins are to each other and everyone was occupied that morning.









In this photo, you can see just a sliver of the tree showing behind one of the trees in my front yard.









This is near the base of the tree that extends about 15 feet into the neighbor's property to the right. The diameter at this point was about 4-1/2 to 5 feet. Definitely took out a portion of my chain link fence !









This is where the tree went through my wood fence at the rear of the property and the little two foot diameter tree that is cradling the large tree, according to the power company is probably what saved a few lives that morning, because as the large tree fell, it glanced off to one side and into my rear neighbors yard and kept the tree from taking out my cabin and probably would have killed my tenant in the upstairs back bedroom.









In this photo, the larger branches probably 70-80 up the tree, took out more of my fence and just missed my large storage shed. All in all, we were pretty lucky with this one. I think Rick Marty would comment God did a pretty fair job laying that tree down where He did.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Gee...that's some "Tooth-Pic" maker Gary....loggers delight

Thx


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the insights Chuck and Gary. I've sure noticed the intervals between branch groups, but didn't know about their being 1 year apart. 

My wife, Linda, and I just went out and counted rings on the biggest one, and they were about 48 in number, so nice deduction Chuck. 30" across.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

My neighbor paid for an assessment of our pines by a professional arborist. My last two big pines are, in the arborist's opinion, now much more likely to fall because of no partner trees to break the wind. 

Since his house is at risk, my neighbor wants them out. I don't blame him. So, they'll probably have to go, bummer. I like trees, and these pines reminded me of where I grew up (near the Sierras, in CA). But, safety first and all that. I'm sad to see them go though.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

White Pines grow fairly fast, about a foot a year in our mid-Atlantic climate. If you planted about half the number of pines you cut down with 6' trees in the same area, you would have a nice group in a few years. 

If after a few years, the lower branches are dying, remove a few trees. My understanding is the the more viable branches, top to bottom, the better. I'm not an arborist, but this has been my observation over the years.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the advice Chuck. I didn't know the white pines grew that fast, hence my gross over-assessment of their age. To your point on re-planting, I, my wife, the neighbor, and his wife, had our first talk today about what should be planted as a sight & sound barrier between us. And, we decided that only one more tree would come down -- so, 9 altogether since the wind storm.

Again, it's sad to see all those trees go adios. But, on the bright side, maybe I get to revise my "Phase II" layout plans to occupy the additional real estate that has suddenly become available...


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Mixed blessings..
More..improved layout designs...ahead!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff, if you can measure the vertical distance between several sets if branches coming off the side of the trunk, you can get an average growth rate for those White Pine trees in your yard.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That's a fast rate Chuck, about 30-36". Thanks for the tip.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I laid out some tree slices yesterday, here's how it's looking. The big tree at the left is coming down. The far side of the log edge will be chips, while the near side will be "lawn" (mowed weeds).

Linda, my wife, liked the look, and said I should keep going with the same treatment up the hill... And, we'll have the additional tree's worth of disks and chips... So, rollin' rollin' rollin'...


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## on30gn15 (May 23, 2009)

I grew up in places in the south where when you drove the Interstates there were miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and ... and ... and ... of tree farms.
I think they were white pine.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

Those disks look great. I think you will need to treat them with something. In the old days, I'd suggest creosote, but I think that is a no-no now. Untreated pine doesn't last very long in our damp mid-Atlantic climate. Bugs will also speed up the rotting. 

Ask the arborist if he has any products that he recommends.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Chuck. I was thinking they'd just rot in place, but good point, there may be some sort of cheap preservative.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought that they looked nice. If possible, to easily extend their life might make life a little easier for you down the road.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Chuck, you were way ahead of me. I'll look out for some sort of preservative.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

After a bunch of thinking and talking between we and our neighbors and an arborist, we decided that the remaining white pines were no longer wind-shielded, and therefore likely to fall sooner rather than later.

So, two more big trees can down today, plus 3 small ones. Kinda bare, sad to see all the pines go. But, we'll plant shorter-growing stuff in place of them; and we have a younger stand further up the hill.

I probably have a month of moving log cookies (Jerry B's term) and chips before I get to the layout work, but at least things are settled and my neighbors are happy.

Cliff


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Sorry about this not being train-related, it's just that I've got to get this heap dealt with before getting back to layout stuff.

Here's a shot of the front-yard redeployment of the erstwhile trees. 










Got a LONG way to go though...










Trying not to be bummed about the lost month or two, and to just enjoy being outside and working with raw materials God gave. And live in the moment, smell the wood chips, all that. 

CJ


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Today witnessed the final log-moving and debris cleanup ceremonies.











The final act of this tree drama will be hauling and spreading chips. My neighbor and I will be going in on hiring a crew for that (at his suggestion). I'm kinda done with this cra-- uh, fun, and I hear the labor will be cheap for this. 

So I'm looking forward to this Thursday, hopefully the chip throwing day. I'll be watching. As Jerome K. Jerome said, "I like work; it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours." 

===>Cliffy


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff the last picture you posted makes your yard look rustic. I think that,s a good thing. Pete


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Pete!


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff if you boiled linseed oil that will keep the pine long from rotting for quite a while. I used on a wood carving about 15 years ago and it is still looking good. You can get it at lowes or home depot. Pete


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Pete, I'll check it out. But I'd probably have to get a drum of it.... Well, maybe a 5 gal bucket would suffice.


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Hmm pete is correct, linseed oil used for decades as wood treatment, it reminded me I used to mix linseed oil with beeswax to make a preservative for my maple butcher block kitchen table, and a little searching yielded

http://www.instructables.com/id/Wood-Preserver-Home-Blended/

Done in Brit-speak but you get the idea. So head for the local farm store, Cliff see what you come up with


Oops, but here is a more "scientific" discussion of linseed oil use on wood, Pros and cons...of course so far no one is talking about many square feet of freshly cut end grain pine....well have fun anyway Cliff

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infpai/inflin.html


Jerry


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Guys, I see a few places that sell 5 gals of it for 70-120 bucks + shipping. Need to find it locally I suppose.

But, here it is for $100 with free shipping:
http://www.amazon.com/SUNNYSIDE-COR...8&sr=8-1&keywords=boiled+linseed+oil+5+gallon


Question, is this any better than cheap deck stain?


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Linseed oil is sold as Raw or Boiled. 
Raw is better out in the weather, Boiled mixes well with other oils.
Raw takes a much longer time to cure, I've used some around animal pens that always seemed tacky for years.
Maybe this quick link will help you decide. 
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/boiled-linseed-oil-vs-raw-linseed-oil
I'm just making sure you know what your getting.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yea Guys..the sticky lasts a good long time..no need for post its..

Having used it on wood planks for a trailer..it was thick...and runny..I'd look into thining it some..probably mineral spirits..enough to help it sink..or soak into the wood grain..the stuff is so thick it tends more to sit on the surface...

Now..a word of caution..brought to you by MLS experience.
I have had a black metal can sit in the sun...a soaked rag on the can..in the sun...ya there yet?!
Spontaneous combustion is highly possible. I was present when it occured..no biggy..yet..lesson learned directly..works for me!

Always use your thinning cap gents!!
Dirk


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

One of my wood chip mountains was smoking one weekend, it was quite warm in there. But no spont-comb yet! It's gonna all get spread tomorrow hopefully.

Sounds like boiled linseed oil would be better for me than raw.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff boiled linseed oil is what I used on the wood carving. After 15 years it still looks ok. Pete


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the tips Pete. I'll probably get that 5 gal drum of it from Amazon.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Something you could do is buy a quart and apply it to the ends of a few logs and see how it works. A paint roller should work for you. If it turns out ok then go with a larger amout of the boiled linseed oil. Pete


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Good idea Pete. Maybe give it a month or so?


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