# Is the high price of shipping getting you down



## Guest (Apr 29, 2008)

Well i don't know about you guys but this very high price of shipping is starting to bug me.. i posted yesterday that i had found a couple of aristo signal towers at train world and i ordered them, well today they came outstandingly quick but cost 30.00 to ship to me and i'm only 2 hours upstate? shipping prices have been going thrue the roof lately because of fuel prices but i have now decided to rethink the whole ordering online thing cause between the prices of the trains and now the shipping so high its starting not to be a hobby but more of a money pit because of the rising cost of everything lately, to much to quick! i think anyway. your thoughts? 
Nick..


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't have so much of a prob with shipping from stores as the excessive shipping some people try to charge on ebay...If you aren't careful it can make what at first looked like a deal even MORE expensive than simply paying full retail and shipping from a dealer. For instance, a stupid little DVD simply doesn't cost $9-12 to ship domestically unless (maybe) you hire a private courier. 

I WAS in for a bit of a shock trying to ship an order for a customer recently. I hadn't updated my shipping chart, and a box that USED to cost $35 to ship 2 years ago ended up facing me with a choice of $56 for UPS ground or $147 USPS (it was 1" oversized) Even at $56, I LOST money on the sale because I had quoted his discount based on the outdated shipping schedule. 

Note: on second thought, there is ONE prob I have with one dealer. Their ad says "factory shipping addl." on certain items...so you not only do you pay the asking price for the item, the bill has TWO shipping charges on it. One for the shipping from the factory to them, the other from them to you.... It allows them to advertise an artificially low (FALSE!) "sale price" compared to those who include the first shipping in their price. IMO it is a sleazy practice, even if it isn't illegal.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

The high cost of everything is getting me down lately /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

diesel fuel - $4.39 a gallon 

tom h


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2008)

my hobby-budget stays more or less the same. 
shipping increases. so i am buying cheaper (not so good) products....


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Your alternative would be to drive to a store, purchase, pay tax in the store, then pay the gas both ways (if you don't count wear and tear, insurance), tolls (if you drove down to NYC). See where that puts you. Also, some stores don't offer the same price in store versus on line. There was a discussion a while back about buying at St. Aubins in Las Vegas, and how it was actually more expensive to walk in and buy it and carry whatever out. Those signal bridges should have fit nicely in to HD saddle bags, if your HD could go that far without needing a part...yet another high cost. " border=0> 

Still, $30 for two signal bridges is high. I would have expected $10-15 tops for that. Did they tell you when you placed your order that the shipping would be that high? 

Over on UPS, they have posted this regarding the fuel surcharge: 

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/find/cost/fuel_surcharge.html  


I'm seeing the cost of living increase dramatically to the point where I am not considering spending $$ on trains. I attribute that increase directly to the cost of moving product to market. Things that should have been fixed by now are in a holding pattern until things improve by either salary increases or price stabilizations. Since I cannot predict the latter, I must wait for the former to catch up.


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2008)

Mark, 
i here ya on the no spendings $ on train things its getting out of control price wise, besides i'm pritty well set have most of what i need. anything else i suppose i could drive over to penn and buy , you don't have sales tax right? well if you need some extra motive power till prices come down i can bring you a new GG1 DOES YOUR LAYOUT HAVE BIGGER THAN 8FT DIA CURVES..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif OOOO who am i kidding i cant even lift the dam thing into the back of my truck without feeling some pain between the leggs/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 
Nick..


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 04/30/2008 10:21 AM 
I'm seeing the cost of living increase dramatically to the point where I am not considering spending $$ on trains. I attribute that increase directly to the cost of moving product to market. Things that should have been fixed by now are in a holding pattern until things improve by either salary increases or price stabilizations. Since I cannot predict the latter, I must wait for the former to catch up. 


Since my 2 percent cost of living raise at the beginning of january was trumped by a 5 percent cost of health insurance increase and they tell us that this year to date the health costs have been even higher and to expect that cost to go up antoher 5 to 10 percent I'm expecting my 2 percent COLR next January will be at a loss again. Sicne I'm in a dead end job with no hope of promotion and no place to promote to, I'm stuck on hold as it were. Buy American made Cutco kitchen cutlery this summer folks! It's my only hope! (forgive shameless plug!) 

Chas


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I will note however that I've NOT bid on things from Ebay based on high shipping costs. 

Chas


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, 

6% sales tax. You have to go a little bit further to Deleware for no sales tax. 

Yes, I do have larger than 8' dia curves, but you wouldn't like what I want a GG-1 for. As a NH fan, I'd take the shell off, and replace it with the proper box cab, like the original, the New Haven EP-3. 
http://www.railking1gauge.com/detail.asp?item=20-5629-1 

Chas - I'd buy your knives, but then end up cutting myself resulting in higher medical costs.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

"quote:Subject: Is the high price of shipping getting you down?" 

I can't let it do so as virtually all of my purchases for hobby or shop items must be shipped out here. I don't see rising shipping costs inhibiting my purchases as I really have little choice. Even if I pick up some things myself a trip to Coos Bay is a 100 mile roundtrip and Eugene about 300 miles there and back. That's a lot of gasoline. The fact of no sales tax in Oregon offsets somewhat the shipping costs but of course price increases are still felt. I don't do ebay, at least so far.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

It seems almost every outfit I deal with has a store in Nevada. Shipping AND sales tax. 

Grumble grumble, Bob


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 04/30/2008 1:25 PM
It seems almost every outfit I deal with has a store in Nevada. Shipping AND sales tax. 

Grumble grumble, Bob




Actually, if you read the tax codes, MOST states still want the tax to be paid....You (the purchaser) are just supposed to VOLUNTARILY fill out their stupid "use tax" form, file it, and send in the payment.... any guess on how many people actually DO? 

Ohio has passed a new law that if you have a transient vendor's license (like I do) to do shows in Ohio, you are also responsible to collect sales tax on any mail orders sent there as well (each county has a different rate, and the bi-yearly tax form is 3 pages long.... just what I needed, another headache)...If you forget to file on time they send you an "estimated bill" (which is usually for about 3 times what you GROSSED there in the last 3 years), and then send you to the Atty Gen's office for collections.....I THINK Cali has a similar law regarding ALL mail order houses (whether you have a Cali tax number or not), too. 

New York, and New Jersey (and I think Connecticut) have a reciprocal tax agreement so that if you do business in one and ship to the other, you gotta collect the tax.(and do the paperwork, and if it is ONE day late there is a $50 fine-- even on NO tax due...any wonder I gave up my NY tax number?) 

The latest and greatest is a plan, backed by about half a dozen states, to require the credit card companies to collect the sales tax. Except it will (naturally) require the sellers to fill out and file all the stupid paperwork... 

Just thinking about all this has given me a bellyache and made me wonder if I shouldn't just give up and go out of business.....


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 04/30/2008 11:23 AM
Nick, 
6% sales tax. You have to go a little bit further to Deleware for no sales tax. 
Yes, I do have larger than 8' dia curves, but you wouldn't like what I want a GG-1 for. As a NH fan, I'd take the shell off, and replace it with the proper box cab, like the original, the New Haven EP-3. 
http://www.railking1gauge.com/detail.asp?item=20-5629-1 
Chas - I'd buy your knives, but then end up cutting myself resulting in higher medical costs.




you live in pennsylvania and you would hack up a beutiful GG1, shame on you... i'm not even a pennsy fan and i like the way it looks... 
Nick/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, 

I have heard some retailers have been known to charge high rates for shipping. I don't have any direct experience with them, but you may have found one. I know from experience that www.ridgeroadstation.com does not overcharge for shipping. 

Raymond


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

The high price of shipping????? That's assuming you can afford to buy the product just to have it shipped in the first place./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I ordered a $15 book from New Zealand (Cane Trains), a prototype to base my models on. Shipping came to $19


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Overseas shipping is a who nudder kettle o fish. Used to be that if you weren't in a hurry you could specify "surface"...which sometimes actually went by air anyway, but could take as long as a couple months....but it was inexpensive for heavy low value stuff like small iron castings, etc. NOW, your choices from the USPS are "Global Priority" (the old air mail) or "Global Express" (which gets it there in about the same time due to customs delays, but costs twice as much) 

I import cast iron steam engine kits from England. It used to be I could order 3 kits, pay about $40 and have them in 3 weeks via surface...now I order 3 kits, it costs me over $100 and I have them in about 8 days via DHL.... faster yes, but it takes a BIG bite out of my already slim margin.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 04/29/2008 4:08 PM
I don't have so much of a prob with shipping from stores as the excessive shipping some people try to charge on ebay...



My son is of the mindset that when he sells on e-bay, the shipping charges should cover his actual shipping costs, e-bay costs, and PayPal costs, plus some. Apparently others think the same way. I just stay away from e-bay unless it is a commercial item that I can Buy-It-Now for a price I know is good.


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## VillageRail (Apr 25, 2008)

The local stores carry very little in G scale, so I have no other options. I always add in the shipping and then decide if its a price I can afford. On ebay auctions, if no shipping is listed in advance I don't bid. They may be still only charging you their cost, but that can be pretty high if they take it to some local box and ship shop. Due to budget contstraints, I tend to end up with the broken, worn, used pieces from estate sales. Knowing the passion and work we put into these garden railroads, its kind of depressing when you think of what happens after we're gone. Relatives rip it up, pack it as "junk", and dump it for some quick cash. 

I saw an auction recently on some really nice vintage O scale Lionel trains. An elderly neighbor no longer healthy enough to use them had given them to a lady as a gift for her son. Something I would consider as a precious gift for a young boy (that's similar to how I got started many years ago) Instead of giving them to the boy, she sold them on ebay for the quick cash. Sad, just sad.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By nick s. on 04/29/2008 3:34 PM
Well i don't know about you guys but this very high price of shipping is starting to bug me.. i posted yesterday that i had found a couple of aristo signal towers at train world and i ordered them, well today they came outstandingly quick but cost 30.00 to ship to me and i'm only 2 hours upstate? shipping prices have been going thrue the roof lately because of fuel prices but i have now decided to rethink the whole ordering online thing cause between the prices of the trains and now the shipping so high its starting not to be a hobby but more of a money pit because of the rising cost of everything lately, to much to quick! i think anyway. your thoughts? 
Nick..







I just got a big box from TrainWorld here in Nashville for $10....


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 05/01/2008 4:32 PM 
Posted By Mik on 04/29/2008 4:08 PM 
I don't have so much of a prob with shipping from stores as the excessive shipping some people try to charge on ebay...

My son is of the mindset that when he sells on e-bay, the shipping charges should cover his actual shipping costs, e-bay costs, and PayPal costs, plus some. Apparently others think the same way. I just stay away from e-bay unless it is a commercial item that I can Buy-It-Now for a price I know is good.

I'm not attacking anyone but thought i would voice my opinion. As an Ebay seller i agree with your son. Why should I have to shoulder the cost of selling? I know the drill that if it's too much you won't buy it. But most people won't hesitate to go into a store and buy a product. When you do do you realize that you are paying all of their fees. You pay fuel to get it there, overhead, employee wages etc etc etc.... But on eBay it is considered "wrong" for the seller to that. The days of eBay being an internet yard sale are long gone (sadly) and people are being forced to "pay to play". 
I was selling scratch built brass signals on ebay. They cost me $7.00 to make. Normally they went for about $15. My listing fees were $.60, final value fees were $1.79, then the paypal fee (which reflect the cost plus the money they sent me for shipping as well) was $.88. That's $3.27. So, wow i made $4.73. Now add in my time to make it, deliver it (carrier pickup isn't an option for me right now) and fuel cost, plus packing material, thankfully the boxes are free for now. It just isn't worth the time. If i add that into the shipping fees people won't buy it and will actually send me nasty emails about "raping" them or "gouging" or "how dare you!!!". I know i don't have to use paypal as well but many people won't even look at it if i choose not to accept it. I tried that and my sales fell right through the floor. So i'm supposed to give it away to keep folks happy? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif" border=0> ummmm ok. Again i'm not attacking anyone just giving another side of the story. So, I choose not to sell signals, my loss i guess. 
As far as shipping costs go, it has hurt me greatly. It has about come to the point for me to order from the LHS and pay retail. Ridge Road Station still has fair shipping prices and if you order online their prices are lower than the store. As far as I could tell though St. Aubin's prices were the same from when i was in there to their web prices. But their shipping kills me if it has to come from Vegas cause I'm in oHIo. Anymore i wait till i'm on a trip on a sale comes up to defer the shipping costs. Otherwise i just don't buy.


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## Guest (May 3, 2008)

QUOTE.. 
I just got a big box from TrainWorld here in Nashville for $10.... 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Garrett 

It must have been and envolpe!!!! 10.00 doesnt get you much shipping anymore... 
Nick


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By paintjockey on 05/03/2008 9:13 AM
Posted By Del Tapparo on 05/01/2008 4:32 PM 
Posted By Mik on 04/29/2008 4:08 PM 
I don't have so much of a prob with shipping from stores as the excessive shipping some people try to charge on ebay...

My son is of the mindset that when he sells on e-bay, the shipping charges should cover his actual shipping costs, e-bay costs, and PayPal costs, plus some. Apparently others think the same way. I just stay away from e-bay unless it is a commercial item that I can Buy-It-Now for a price I know is good.

I'm not attacking anyone but thought i would voice my opinion. As an Ebay seller i agree with your son. Why should I have to shoulder the cost of selling? I know the drill that if it's too much you won't buy it. But most people won't hesitate to go into a store and buy a product. When you do do you realize that you are paying all of their fees. You pay fuel to get it there, overhead, employee wages etc etc etc.... But on eBay it is considered "wrong" for the seller to that. The days of eBay being an internet yard sale are long gone (sadly) and people are being forced to "pay to play". 
I was selling scratch built brass signals on ebay. They cost me $7.00 to make. Normally they went for about $15. My listing fees were $.60, final value fees were $1.79, then the paypal fee (which reflect the cost plus the money they sent me for shipping as well) was $.88. That's $3.27. So, wow i made $4.73. Now add in my time to make it, deliver it (carrier pickup isn't an option for me right now) and fuel cost, plus packing material, thankfully the boxes are free for now. It just isn't worth the time. If i add that into the shipping fees people won't buy it and will actually send me nasty emails about "raping" them or "gouging" or "how dare you!!!". I know i don't have to use paypal as well but many people won't even look at it if i choose not to accept it. I tried that and my sales fell right through the floor. So i'm supposed to give it away to keep folks happy? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif" border=0>" border=0> ummmm ok. Again i'm not attacking anyone just giving another side of the story. So, I choose not to sell signals, my loss i guess. 
As far as shipping costs go, it has hurt me greatly. It has about come to the point for me to order from the LHS and pay retail. Ridge Road Station still has fair shipping prices and if you order online their prices are lower than the store. As far as I could tell though St. Aubin's prices were the same from when i was in there to their web prices. But their shipping kills me if it has to come from Vegas cause I'm in oHIo. Anymore i wait till i'm on a trip on a sale comes up to defer the shipping costs. Otherwise i just don't buy.




I can understand the desire to recover the costs of shipping and the fees for selling on the part of the seller... kind of silly to sell something for a dollar and have to spend two dollars to get it to the buyer without the buyer paying for those costs. 

But, when I go into a store and buy an item, I pay the price listed on the price tag. When I get to the checkout, they don't add on the costs of shipping to the store or the wages of the checkout clerk and a dozen other "fees and costs". Granted they do add the State and City "Sales Taxes" and "Local Option Taxes", but that doesn't mean I "like it"! 

In general, I expect to pay the price I see labeled on the product. When "bidding", I expect to pay the amount I agreed to pay in my bid. 

I know that real Auction houses (the kind where you stand in a crowd in front of a guy yelling unintelligable and when you scratch your nose you find you just bid $1,000 for a broken crock pot) are now charging a "Buyer's Premium"... which is THE most VILE "Madison Avenue" phrase ever invented... it ain't a "Premium" FOR the "Buyer"! It is the Auctioneer's wages, period. The seller likes it because they then get the "bid" price and do not lose some portion of it to the Auctioneer (well, they also had to pay the Auctioneer a fee that will come out of what is sold). 

What bothers me most about these those things is that the "fee" is based on the selling price, not the "work" accomplished. It doesn't cost any more to sell a dollar item than it does to sell a ten thousand dollar item, but you pay just a few cents for the dollar item and MANY hundreds of dollars for the higher priced item. If it is a "FEE" it should be a FLAT FEE, not a percentage. 

If you think that these "fees" are an okay thing, then I'll tell you what... I have an Aster USRA Light Mikado that I will sell you for $37.50! It is a fine locomotive and comes complete and in working condition, and all original documentation and paper work. Since I am selling it so cheap, I expect you to pay all shipping costs, including insurance and the materials I will have to purchase to wrap and box the locomotive and tender, the packing peanuts and such. You will have to pay the EXACT price charged by the shipping company and you can select either USPS, UPS or Fed-Ex as your shipper. Unless you send me cash via bonded courier I will wait 21 days after your personal check clears my bank and then send you the item. I do expect a small fee payable to me for my trouble of having to go to the store to get the packing materials and my time spent making sure your excellant purchase will arrive at your location in good shape. Send cash or make your check payable to me for $10,037.52 and the loco is yours! 

Sound "Fair"? 

Well, tough pachookies... my time is valuable and you are just going to have to pay me a fee for it and it is NOT negotiable! This is a limited time offer and my fee will go up if you try to trick me into accepting some lower amount by supplying your own packing material or come to my house to harrass me by getting the loco yourself. I won't put up with that kind of shennanigans!


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I understand hidden fees suck as well. But the shipping and handleing has a place to be listed, the people who don't use it need drug out in the street by their hair and beaten'. If you read my auctions it has the bid price and right underneath it has the shipping cost with included handleing fees. There is nothing hidden. Go to wal*mart, target, K mart or your other local rip off chinese product establishment and look for the price break down on the tag. Obviously there isn't one. if there was we'd probly stroke out. 
I don't ask for gas money or hourly wages, or for that matter even the total amount of ebay fees, it was simply a point. People want a $2000 loco for $50 and want you to cover the costs. (yes this is an exaggeration) then gripe and complain when you charge $.86 for delivery confirmation. I can understand, it just sucks thats all. If I was sellin something for $1000 I probly wouldn't even care about absorbing part of the cost. 
But, i was charging an additional dollar, a freakin' DOLLAR!! and people were so bent outta shape. I got one email saying that retail stores don't do that why should i. HELLO?!?!?!? Why do u think milk is $4 a gallon? The farmers sure ain't gettin rich. 
So, that whoppin' dollar covered a 6 mile round trip to the post office, (in a 3/4 4x4 I know, my fault, but i bought it before gas was over $1.50 a gallon) hopefully i can combine trips into town, a $6.00 box of packing peanuts which i can do about 10 boxes with, delivery confirmation at I believe $0.86 and a roll of tape (don't trust the post offices self stick boxes they'll get ya when ya least expect it). 
gas $1.75 
packageing $0.60 
confirmation $0.86 
tape $0.05 (i really have no idea here) 
This is cuttin into my $4.73 profit pretty quick. Add up the three hours of labor to make it, even at or below minimum wage, and it is so not worth my time. I could spend the time and money on my trains, or to pay for shipping which is what this thread was originally about " border=0>" border=0> 
oh, Charles, if you do sell that loco for ten grand, lemme know i'll buy a few for resale on ebay too! (But i'll undercut you and sell for $3.00 less so mine sell first!!) 
Take care 
Terry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

It is a "mindset" that has to change in the "Buyer". But that is gonna be a hard thing to do. I gave up going to auctions when when the "Buyer's Premium" came into vogue. I had to pay to get into an auction once and they then wanted a variable fee per won item PLUS a 20% "Buyer's Premium". There was only one item I was interested in, but it sold for 10 times what I was willing to pay, and NO I am not a cheapskate... it was just really, really wanted by two members of the family holding the auction (and I think they even had to pay the entrance fee!). So for the priviledge of watching a family rift I paid $5.00. (Never again!) 

If I know, upfront, the total cost if what I am bidding on, I can decide if I want to pay 3 dollars for an item I am bidding 1 dollar for. But when the item is only worth a dollar people should not be bidding (nor selling!).


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

As i have said many times before "Ebay" a sometimes good place to "Buy" but not so good to "sell"!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

If I think shipping is to high I will not buy from them. Some guy's on e-bay want more for shipping then the car is worth. I will not pay $30 for shipping on a car! 
I just received two from a dealer and the shipping was $10.00.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

When a seller is listing an item on ebay they set the starting price. The starting price should be what the seller is willing to accept for the product including the overhead, projected ebay fees, PayPal fees, etc. While this raises the starting price for the item it keeps the shipping charges reasonable (sic.). This is what I do if I am selling something on ebay. 

If I am buying I am more put off by high shipping fees than I am by a higher starting price and may not bid if the shipping is too high. If I am going to bid on an item I decide what the maximum I am willing to pay for that item. I then subtract the shipping fee and place my maximum bid.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

George, you bring up a very good point about the starting cost. But it didn't work that way for me. I started listing my signals with a starting price of $10. This was before i did the math on what they cost me. But nobody bid. I listed it again for a $.99 starting price, which buy the way is the highest price you can start at without a fee, and it went to $15 and some change. Go figure? It must be because people get caught in the bidding war or something. 

On another note, i just ordered a battery from batteryspace.com, a 2"x2"x4" 4oz. battery cost me $8 plus a little change. My only shipping option was for UPS. It sucks cause the post office could move it faster for cheaper. But, then again maybe the post won't ship batteries. I would guess the real reason though is that UPS will come right to their store and pick up. Oh well. 
Terry


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Well folks it is and can be a lot worse. 

Try living in Australia and pay shipping from US! 
A Bachmann loco will cost around $100 by USPS. 
There is no longer surface freight option with USPS. 
Some US vendors still have the 'We love UPS and Fedex' thing going because they get tracking at my expense. 
Tracking all the way to my carport which is where UPS and Fedex usualy leave items. 

EBay - Policy is to not exploit with the shipping. 
Covering your eBay costs by including them in the shipping is: 

1/Not within the policies of eBay 
2/Dishonest 
3/Self justified rubbish. 

PayPal - Well eBay is trialing a 'PayPal only' system in Australia very soon and they intend to impose this on you guys too - Hello hello, $12 eBay/PayPal fees on a $100 item. 

Like most good things these days, all will get reamed, screwed and shredded untill it is totaly disfunctional. 

Cheerio for now


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

What they charge will continue to go up until profits go down. Then they will stabilize. Kind of like a "Supply and Demand" sort of thing, but more a "Desire vs. Expense". What "WE" need is a large alternative venue... i.e.: "competition".


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

All eBay changes are to impress stockholders, not users, this has been made clear several times. 

And yes Nick, I was wrong on the postage, it was $12, not $10. But still a LARGE box complete with Bachmann engine.


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