# SECURITY?



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Is anyone doing anything about security on thier layout? 

If so What? 

Anyone doing video servalance? 

I found tire tracks in my yard. They spun donut and headed out through some cactus. 

Now that the road out front is fixed ( Sorta paved) there is no deterant for cars to drive down the road. 

I am thinking of adding video cameras to the house. Maybe even so far as a fence. 

JJ 

PS Can't use spell check cause the tool bar doint show up on the poll fourum


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

John, 

I been outside for about 25 years knock on wood I haven't had any problems. 
I have a 4 foot fence, but there are a lot of kids.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

When we bought our house it had a 6' chain link fence all around the property. After I started my railroad I was very thankful for that fence and it has kept everything except an occasional ball out of the yard - so far!! I have lots of visitors in the evenings, young and old alike who like to watch the trains go. the chain link fence is nice because you can see through it, and talk through it. 

Ed


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Back yard completely fenced and gated to 6ft. Although I think the major deterrent is my two Rottweilers, one who tips the scales at 140 lbs............... 
Rod


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

We have a 6ft chain link fence that encloses our side yard also in the summer time we have ornamental grass plants out side the chain link fence for privacy. we do not live in the best of neighborhoods.


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## Fred (Jan 2, 2008)

Yard has a 6' wooden privacy fence all around it so one cannot see in it. I don't "advertise" I have a railroad in my backyard so only my neighbors I' m friends with on the block know what's back there this way none of the local kids have any reason to try to get back there. Yea, I know, if more people knew what was back there then maybe more might also get interested, but a guy I knew 2 sub-divisions over had a visible layout in his yard 7 one weekend while away vandals came & destroyed so much of it he never rebuilt it so I'd rather not take the chance.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Video cameras 24/7, active neighbors, barking dogs, alarm system. 

Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Don't piss off your neighborhood kids, and you shouldn't have any problems. At least that has been my only concern to date. We do have a privacy fence around most of the yard, but low fence on the other. We advertise our open house in the newspaper every year and have about 350 or so folks in our backyard on those days. 

Like I say, kids are my biggest concern. When I see them racing down the street or making a bunch noise late at night, I always check my emotions and just let it go. I don't need any retaliation. No problems to date. 

JJ - I get the feeling you are out in the boon docks a bit? Probably where the kids are out messing around late at night? I would think a simple fence would do it. I doubt if they would bother to even get out of the car unless they had some personal vendetta going on.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

There are not that many "kids" around. They don't even take short cuts accross lots. There is one bunch who's boyfriends are of questionable charicture. I am thinking of a chainlink fence but up off the ground so that local gentry of the animal variety can get in and out.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

JJ, 
Similar circumstances. End of a dirt road, 2 driveways, to the right flat and you see my neighbor's home, mine goes uphill and you can't see my home. 
No fence and no desire to put one in. I've lined my driveway with rocks, one lane wide...I still get idiots looking for my secret road across the wash! 
Worst witnessed act; turned towards shed, backed up to layout and then took off, burn-out style, spraying rocks onto the track as he fled. 
Funniest heard act; didn't turn with the driveway and crossed over the rocks, found out the hard way the the rocks get bigger towards the top. Heard that idiot limp up our hill as parts fell off! 
Solution; Private Property and No Tresspassing signs where driveway enters property. 
Cause and effect.... had to place big rocks around our Water meter boxes where these folks try to turn around.... 

John


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

J.J. Unless you buy really good quality surveillance cameras and a 24-7 DVR, I would just take some of the biggest rocks that I've seen you have in some of yer pictures, and lets say maybe just well place em, where it deters the fellers, sightseers, and or other, and if not they or the vehicle will still be there when you come out after you hear the noise or not. High centering anything always works, and keeps em around for awhile!! Regal 

Although, I have only lost one case in court since 1982, and video does help when you get to court!! 
(lost case was another officer, beat me on a technicality early on in my career, came into court on crutches sympathy, with the judge at the time!


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Use you backhoe to a dig tank trap that protects your layout...and install one video camera to cover the trap...so you can get a good video to post on YouTube. Then use the backhoe to pull em out of your trap...and charge em...or just use the bucket to crush the truck down into the tank trap more. You have many opportunities for fun and getting even...think that way...and have fun.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Mikey's half right JJ 

But it's a moat you need to dig. 

Fill it with water and I'll send you up a couple alligators. 

Seriously, if you're going to put up video cameras, make sure they will provide pictures that are legible. 

it amazes me the videos you see from various businesses that are nothing but a blurr. 

Randy


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 02 Jan 2011 01:14 PM 
... 
it amazes me the videos you see from various businesses that are nothing but a blurr. 
... 


No kidding. You see it on the news all the time. Convenience store robbery by two blurry guys that may or may not have guns. Why do they even bother? Save 100$ on the purchase, spend $XXX maintaining and messing with it for years, and then when you need it, its junk!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I had a friend who owned a white two car garage, with a huge blank wall facing a major street in Denver. Had to repaint the garage wall multiple times per week to cover the grafitti. Soos: I went over to help him out. Motion sensor light with an extra outlet, a lawn auto water valve, and some hose sections, and a couple of small sprinklers nailed to the underside of the soffit: Instant super soaker to anyone who crossed the chain link fence into the yard! It was wonderful, because as soon as you crossed the fence, the water went on, and then you had to climb the fence to get away from it! The comedy effect was worthwhile in itself. 

So, you do need some automatic lawn watering, don't you? And, of course, some motion detector lights always come in handy... 

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I watch my house on a monitor from work. 

Someone brings a dog to crap on my lawn, I activate the sprinklers, works every time. 

Greg


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I have a 6" fence, no very big kids...yet, and a fully loaded 12Ga with 00 buck, and some 12Ga filled with rock salt..MOST important I try not to piss the neighbors off! 

Knock on wood no troubles yet! 

Bubba


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## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Reminds me of a friend I had in Wyoming. He lived on a corner lot and the curbs in his subdivision were not the usual square step type but rather the low swale type and ease into the lawn. Every summer for 2-3 years he had his bushes driven through in the wee hours of the morning, usually 2-3 times per summer. He finally got fed up with replanting the bushes and went down to the local oil supply yard and purchased a half dozen 4' long pieces of 4" oil well casing. He then set these into cement the ground within the bushes. 

The casing was not really visible from the street and it did not pose a hazard to anyone walking on the sidewalk. One night we were watching an early football game in his basement rec room and we heard a loud screeching sound. When we went outside there sat in the street a big Olds Delta 88 with oil, antifreeze, and transmission fluid running out from underneath. There were also a track of fluid that lead from the car back into his mangled bushes. Also with the car was a 16 year old boy that looked scared as ****. My friend offered to call his father. When the father arrived he realized what his son had done and assured my friend this would never happen again. 

Funny thing, after that one night my friend never had anyone drive a car through his bushes ever again. I guess word travels among teenagers. I often wonder whatever happened to that 16 year old boy?


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ...I think your elevated track runs behind your home...so why not do some excavating for security purposes...and put the material between the house and the elevated track. That way, you'd raise the ground level leading to your tunnel...and improve security from off roaders doing donuts. You know the motto..."Have backhoe, will dig". Marty had a good idea in the other thread.


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

I live right down the street from a school, so there are plenty of kids walking by my house all the time. I have a fence around the backyard to protect the layout. I also do not 'advertise' anything about the trains in the front yard- that is, no train signs, no train mailbox, or other train stuff that might entice people to invite themselves in for a closer look! -Kevin.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

"out of sight out of mind" good theory, sometimes the best solution to a problem, but the retaliation methods some of you described above, all you need is a wise guy with a good liar, whoops lawyer, to come after you for some kind of damage, and or bodily injury!! Best method is to let the legal system handle it, although they do lean on the crinimals side usually, for fear of retaliation to themselves, so better have an iron clad case, that the judge has no way of leaning anyway but your way! Then you get a piece of paper saying you won, and nowhere to go with the piece of paper. Now called a judgement, which means "toilet paper" down the road!! Hah LOL Regal


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

12GA side-by-side propped against the window sill, .45ACP on the hip, gravel drive that you cannot be quiet on, and you let the stories out.....


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 02 Jan 2011 09:49 AM 
JJ - I get the feeling you are out in the boon docks a bit? Probably where the kids are out messing around late at night? I would think a simple fence would do it. I doubt if they would bother to even get out of the car unless they had some personal vendetta going on. 



Del.... JJ is so far from everything that even GPS doesn't know where he is. When I drive to his house, I have to follow the trail of bread crumbs...


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution. I lived in a neighborhood where one of the kids had a rather large, rather loud 4x4 pickup truck. He would stand on the gas at the stopsigns, and wouldn't take his foot off until the last second and then stand on the brakes and slide into the next stopsign. In the two blocks leading up to our house, he would hit about 55 or 60 in a residential neighborhood. I just happened to have just gotten home when he went by, drove the two blocks to his house, and had a conversation with his father. Dad took away the keys, and sold the truck. The kid used to give me the "look" as he walked by on his way to school after losing his "ride" but on the other hand, he didn't kill anybody in a neighborhood full of kids. 

Of course if Dad hadn't been as insightful and wise as his was, the next step would have been to involve the police. You'd be amazed what they can do with a license plate number these days. 

My best advice? Make sure it's legal. Make sure it doesn't hurt anyone. Make sure it doesn't create a liability. Make sure your homeowners insurance covers the railroad, just in case. 

And remember: Two wrongs don't make a right...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I am using 3 WebCams (USB interfaces) and 1 NetCam (connects to a home network just like a computer does, either wired or wireless), and a dedicated PC on that network running a program called "Vitamin D Video" (http://www.vitamindinc.com/) to monitor around my house. 

(I have two NON-interconnected home networks; one for the surveilance computer that is not connected to the Internet and another one for my usual computer for Internet surfing.) 

The computer needs to be a high-end processor with a large harddrive to handle that many cameras and store the data for a long time. I am using a triple-core HP laptop with 320-Gbytes of harddrive storage specifically dedicated to the video storage. 

The software ("VDV") saves all video for 2 days (user alterable) and flags the sections when movement is detected and is designed to permanently keep video if the movement meets certain user specified "Rules" (such as size/shape, and/or only in certain areas of the view, etc.). 

The program makes it VERY easy to review the saved videos (both any movement and/or Rule saved movement) allowing the user to decide what to delete or export to keep elsewhere. Rule saved video is kept until the user deletes it or the allocated disk space is used up. 

If the computer is on the internet the Rules can also send an e-mail which can include a snapshot of the movement, or can save the video to an FTP site for you to access remotely upon getting the e-mail. 


Note: I have had a problem connecting more than 3 USB cameras at once (adding a 4th one causes a random one to not work!) but I think this is a Windows problem not a VDV problem. In addition, I was unable to connect 2 of the same model of camera of one of the brands I have... I have been assuming it is a problem with the name of the device in Windows, when the names are the same Winders doesn't know which one to access and get confused and eventually gives the infamous 'Blue Screen of Death' (even Windows 7!). Whether that would be true for other brands I cannot say, but I'd advise that to begin with, buy only two of any one model of camera and see if they will work on 1 PC simultaneously, before buying more of that model. I have had no problem installing different camera models and getting them to work simultaneously (other than the 3 USB camera limit I have encountered). 



Disclaimer: I have no financial connection with this software company (Vitamin D Video) but I was one of their Beta testers for the product. Never-the-less of the few programs of this type I have tried, I think this is the best video surveilance program regardless of price. 

BTW: If you are running only one camera per PC, the program is FREE! And the PC then need not be a wiz-bang machine.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

The four camera thing is a hardware problem. The USB bus doesn't put out enough power to supply four cameras. You might try a USB card or some other method to boost the power... 

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

He's not out of power, he's either got some limit in the driver, or the software. It depends a lot on how he's using them. 

each usb port should supply 1/2 amp. USB is not a bus. 

Greg


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## Allen B (Sep 22, 2010)

Uhhhhh . . . . USB = Universal Serial Bus. Sorry Greg, I just hadda do it!!! Hee Hee! 
Allen B.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

My property adjoins an elementary school, lots of people stop and watch when we're out running live steam. Had the track vandalized one time. It was caught on the schools security cameras (very high quality, stored for one week on DVD) I have been in the school office several times over the years and knew they had great coverage of my track. They would not give me a copy, but they did supply the sheriff with one....that was almost 5 years ago, no repeats... my tax dollars at work.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Greg, what hardware do you recomend for cameras and recording.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06 Jan 2011 08:56 PM 
He's not out of power, he's either got some limit in the driver, or the software. It depends a lot on how he's using them. 

each usb port should supply 1/2 amp. USB is not a bus. 

Greg 

.......................................................................................................................... 

I knew I had something wrong with my sys. not enough power. Tks Greg. 
So we had to go a difference way... 
Motion detector to activate the Geese that throttles the video cams to send recording to Regal in NEB. Then he activates the itching power cannon mounted up 50ft in the Pine trees above the layout that blast the intruders. 
Due to a 7 ft electrified fence around the property, the only way out and to get the burning power off is to go to the back reservoir. 
Then the Gator or the kitty fish eat them.. 
Only gun control we have is to keep the Gators and man eating Catfish down. 
Maybe that why, come to think of it, is why not many want to come over and run trains with us............


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have four pets that watch my property: Smith & Wesson Colt and Rueger


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 11 Jan 2011 05:11 AM 
I have four pets that watch my property: Smith & Wesson Colt and Rueger 


The problem with those pets for security is that, like a lot of corporate employees, they don't work unless the master is there to make them. 

I have a large collection of large dolls. They are delightful to look at, are gifted conversationalists (they will listen intently to anything I want to talk about) and they don't eat much... but they have no concept of dialing 9-1-1 for any reason, and unless I am here to demand otherwise, they are perfectly content to wander off with anyone that picks them up and carries them out the door. I suspect your "pets" are of a similar nature in those attributes.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 10 Jan 2011 03:51 PM 
My property adjoins an elementary school, lots of people stop and watch when we're out running live steam. Had the track vandalized one time. It was caught on the schools security cameras (very high quality, stored for one week on DVD) I have been in the school office several times over the years and knew they had great coverage of my track. They would not give me a copy, but they did supply the sheriff with one....that was almost 5 years ago, no repeats... my tax dollars at work. 


That was actually a wise decision on their part, if you think about it. Not that you or I or anyone we know would do it, there are those that would use the security camera footage to exact their own retribution or revenge. One of the nice things about living in Colorado is that anyone convicted of a crime that causes damages is required to pay for those damages before being released from either probation or incarceration. 

But your post does bring up a point, just a short story about a Denver Police officer. A neighbor had mentioned to me that he had witnessed someone break into the pop machine and had a license plate number, but hadn't done anything. Later that week, a Denver officer appeared on my door, told me that my upstairs neighbor had been burglarized, and if I knew anything. I told him I wasn't home, but mentioned about my other neighbor and the pop machine. He went over to talk to that neighbor, who gave him the license plate number, long story short, the Officer made the Denver papers. Turns out the pop machine heist was related to the burglary, and sixty-some others. 

So? Even a minor incident like this, report it to the cops. Especially the one on your beat. Even if they "can't do anything" about it, if something else happens the next day to your neighbor, then down the block at the school, they can often connect the dots. And if they hear of things happening, they can also step up patrols in your area.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I haven't had any problems to date with people but I have thieves of another sort. 
Something keeps eating my fish from the ponds  !! 
I had thought at first it was a Blue Heran but after covering the ponds with fine nets and still losing fish it must be something else. 

I also plan to start adding structures and such to phase one of my layout which I would also like to keep an eye on. 

Anyone have any recommendations for a good, wireless if possible, camera system. It needs to have high enough resolution so that I can see what's eating my fish and range so I can mount it on my house. 

Semper I checked out that video software you linked, looks nice. If I start with the middle version ($50) can I upgrade to the pro later on if needed and get credit for the mid version (not sure if I need 3 camera's right now)? Also what type of camera do they recommend for use with their system? 

Thanks, Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes Allen, it does stand for Universal Serial Bus, 

BUT 

The connections between the different "ports" are not shared, i.e. on a bus. 

each individual connector should supply 500 ma, and it is not directly electrically connected (the data lines) to the other units. 

That is why you have USB "hubs" instead of splitters like you use on a phone line. 

The "bus" part is not at the physical interface. 

That's why saying 4 devices is over the limit is wrong. 

Greg 

Oh, what cameras? I prefer the professional cameras and then to have a computer digitize and save as motion jpeg or mpeg4. That way you can have many cameras. I have 2 video systems at home with the capability of 16 cameras that are recording all the time. 

For individual "movies" I would use a nice handycam or a professional camera and a pc digitizer. 

I handle our corporate stuff, and am about to investigate what I can do locally, I want to make better movies. I'd like a HD handicam that can also stream from firewire or usb too. 

I've got to learn a lot more.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 11 Jan 2011 12:02 PM 
I haven't had any problems to date with people but I have thieves of another sort. 
Something keeps eating my fish from the ponds  !! 
I had thought at first it was a Blue Heran but after covering the ponds with fine nets and still losing fish it must be something else. ... 


Does your netting completely cover the pond, or just most of it? All that Heron needs is a small opening. He has all the patience in the world. It is just a matter of time until the fish are under the opening. 

How big are the fish? Do you have snakes?


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 11 Jan 2011 12:02 PM 
I haven't had any problems to date with people but I have thieves of another sort. 
Something keeps eating my fish from the ponds  !! 

Anyone have any recommendations for a good, wireless if possible, camera system. It needs to have high enough resolution so that I can see what's eating my fish and range so I can mount it on my house. 

Thanks, Ron 


Hi Ron, 

You might want to look into Game Spy Cameras such as those by Moultrie: 

http://www.moultriefeeders.com/catalog.aspx?catid=game spy game management system 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Deer/Deer0.JPG 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Deer/Deer1.JPG 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Deer/Deer2.JPG 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Deer/Deer3.JPG 

These have been reduced to 640 x 480. The original photos are 5 MP. 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Deer/2011-01-07 026.JPG 

So far this camera has taken well over 1,000 photos (motion activated) and I am only on the 2nd set of six "C" cell batteries powering it. 

The camera cost around $125 plus a couple of GB memory cards. I rotate memory cards putting a new one in as I take the old one out. 

I believe 2 GB of memory will hold at least 900 5 MP photos so they are never near full when I swap them out. This is taking up to several hundred photos per day. In normal use one memory card could last for many months. 

I believe the motion detection range is around 50 feet. 

The cameras are camouflaged to make them hard to detect so they double for security as I move them around from time to time. I often put this one under an outside light but it does have an IR flash which is not very detectable other than red LED's that light up. 

In my case I go out of my way to attract the critters. I put out corn every day during the winter months mainly for the deer and raccoons (I recently had 6 deer and 3 raccoons at the same time) but also for birds and other critters. 

Jerry


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

Costco has some nice survilance camera systems. I am thinking of investing in one. John, with all the boulders it appears you have on your property. I would think you could stratigaly relocate some to make your property less attractive to 4 wheelers.


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By John J on 02 Jan 2011 05:32 AM 
Is anyone doing anything about security on thier layout? 

If so What? 

Anyone doing video servalance? 

JJ 

Hi JJ, 

I was burglarized about 15 years ago but now I am home almost all the time. 

Still, I use a combination of video and game (trail/spy) cameras both when I am home and especially when I am away. 

The problem with any camera system is the maintenance and assuring everything is pointed where you want it and that there is sufficient lighting for the cameras. I'm still looking for some good but relatively inexpensive video cameras to add to my system. 

The more I use the game cameras the more I like them. There is little maintenance involved and they are self contained and can be placed just about anywhere. 

As for spell checkers, I've used ieSpell for years - even with MLS because as you mentioned, the MLS spell checker does not work with the polls. 

Best of all its FREE. The only glitch is that it does not seem to keep the new words I put in but that may be my computer. 

http://iespell.com/ 

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am looking at putting up a fence. Probably chain Link Fence. I think It will be like 12 inches open on the botom to allow our local gentry in and out. 

JJ


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11 Jan 2011 03:04 PM 
Yes Allen, it does stand for Universal Serial Bus, 

BUT 

The connections between the different "ports" are not shared, i.e. on a bus. 

each individual connector should supply 500 ma, and it is not directly electrically connected (the data lines) to the other units. 

That is why you have USB "hubs" instead of splitters like you use on a phone line. 

The "bus" part is not at the physical interface. 

That's why saying 4 devices is over the limit is wrong. 

Greg 



It depends on your computer. Some computers have several USB sockets wired to the same port, ie, a "hub" on the motherboard. Individual USB ports on motherboard will have the spec output, IF the power supply is up to the task. For instance, on my case, there are four USB sockets, with two sets of wires, so each pair is connecting to one port on the MB. In addition, I have a four socket piece that sits in the back, and it only connects to one port. So, if too many devices are attached to ONE port, that 500ma will be divided four ways. I've had to move certain devices to the four individual sockets that are part of the mainboard itself due to their power draw. In the BIOS itself, it lists a total of 8 ports on the MB, and it has four on board, and four connectors for add-on sockets, of which I'm using 3, for a total of 7. I have, however, seen MB's with only two USB ports, yet having quite a number of sockets in various locations. In addition, if all four devices are hooked to a hub, there will only be that 500ma available. 

In addition, some people connect really strange things to their computer, including *GASP* USB port lava lamps... 

Robert


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 11 Jan 2011 12:02 PM 
I haven't had any problems to date with people but I have thieves of another sort. 
Something keeps eating my fish from the ponds  !! 
I had thought at first it was a Blue Heran but after covering the ponds with fine nets and still losing fish it must be something else. 

I also plan to start adding structures and such to phase one of my layout which I would also like to keep an eye on. 

Anyone have any recommendations for a good, wireless if possible, camera system. It needs to have high enough resolution so that I can see what's eating my fish and range so I can mount it on my house. 

Semper I checked out that video software you linked, looks nice. If I start with the middle version ($50) can I upgrade to the pro later on if needed and get credit for the mid version (not sure if I need 3 camera's right now)? Also what type of camera do they recommend for use with their system? 

Thanks, Ron 


I had a pond at one time, but even at $1.99 per dozen for goldfish to stock it I could not afford to continually feed the "sewer-bears" (aka: raccoons) such lavish late night repasts. 



As for video surveillance... 

Yes, I believe you can upgrade the program for only the difference in the prices between the 2 and 3+ camera versions â€" at least that is what I did. 


If you are rolling-your-own like I have, you need to consider the camera capabilities in several realms and how they relate to the computer capabilities necessary to utilize them and the expense of both. I'll see if I can point out some here: 

For the cameras; image resolution and frame rate, light sensitivity, power requirements and connection methods are important criteria. Each of these will have some impact on the end result and there are trade-offs with the computer capability (speed, storage, etc.). 

Vitamin D Video claims that you can run one or two cameras per CPU in the computer, but that is only a vague rule-of-thumb that is affected by several factors such that you might be able to run 3 or 4 cameras on a cheap 1-CPU computer or need a quad-core wiz-bang computer to handle just a couple of high-end cameras. Also the speed of the storage media (hard drive), amount of memory (RAM) and what other programs are sharing the computer affect the processing capabilities needed to do it all. 


The higher the image resolution, the better you are able to recognize things in the videos. A High Definition (HD) camera, say with a resolution of 1600x900 could produce images where you could recognize facial features of someone 50-ft from the camera, whereas with a low resolution, such as 320x200, you might not be able to distinguish a dog from a raccoon at 25-ft. So one would think you want an HD camera; but remember, the higher the resolution the more horsepower the computer needs to be able to process the images for motion detection and the more space the videos require to store them. 

Higher frame rates also create more data to process and store. But, lower frame rates make it harder to detect motion and will produce jerky (like stop-action animation) video; It can even completely miss a fast moving object, or miss some rapid action, (like you see someone standing there with a sledgehammer and the next scene a part of your layout is demolished, but the person does not seem to have moved!) 


Most "WebCams" have very little (near non-existent!) low-light capability. More expensive cameras do better, but unless you have some sort of illumination for the area you will get no video at night (maybe a swinging dot of light from a burglar's flashlight?). Some cameras have built-in infrared LEDS that come on at night and the camera switches to a "night mode" to show the scene in black and white (B&W); of course these cost more. Also, using the VDV software, they claim that dark scenes take more computer time to process than brighter ones (just something to consider in the whole scheme). 

Many cameras also have only a narrow range of brightness where they work well. My WebCams get washed out in bright sunlight so I put a sunglasses lens over them and that helps during the day, but makes the low light capability even worse, so I lose video coverage earlier in the evening than if they were not wearing cool shades. Polarized lenses are also a good thing. 


USB "WebCams" usually obtain power via the USB wires so there is no need to run power to them in addition to the data cable. But USB cables cannot be very long! The upper limit is about 10-ft without some sort of intermediate amplifier. For 2 of my USB cameras I am using a 10-ft extension cable on the end of a 16-ft cable that has a built-in amplifier on the end. The amp derives power from the port on the computer but the power it uses plus the power used by the camera does not exceed the 500-mA the port can provide. You can supposedly run these amplifier cables in series up to 80-ft (5 cables). My other USB camera is on a 10-ft cable. This does limit where I can put the surveillance computer! It has to be in one particular place in my house for where I want the cameras located. 

NetCams need power, too -- even if they are "wireless". Wireless only means the data needs no wires! Personally, I would only use a wireless camera where electricity is already available and running a signal wire would be difficult. Wireless has less bandwidth for the data than wired and it is all shared with everything else on a wireless router (multiple laptop PCs, wireless printers, wireless games, etc.), possibly including your neighbor's wireless router with all of their devices too, unless you take the steps to figure out which of the 11 channels your neighbors are using and pick a different one! And some channels, although they are different numbers still interfere with each other. 

Some Net-cams have what is called "Power Over Ethernet" (POE) and that makes it easier to wire the camera as you only need to run one cable to the camera for data and power. You get better bandwidth this way (and depending on how close your neighbors are and how many have wireless routers) you won't be crowding your neighborhood airwaves with constant video signals. But, of course, you need to run the wires which can be a problem depending on where you want the camera and where the router is that all the cameras are connected to and where your computer is. 


VDV does not work with analog cameras unless you get an analog to digital device to convert the signal to either USB or Firewire. I noted in my other posting that there may be some limit as to how many USB cameras can be connected, but I know that 3 work just fine! There may also be a problem with connecting multiple cameras of the same model (I only have one pair of identical cameras and they will not work at the same time on one computer, but I really attribute that to the software driver being a kludgeâ€¦ the cameras are â€œKeychain Spy Camâ€�s and the software came from a Chinese web site where I was just told to click on the middle button to download the software! It works but, wellâ€¦ it is an unknown entity and may not really conform to all the Windows specifications! Other, more mainstream products from well known manufacturers may work better!) 

Wireless Ethernet can probably handle 4 or 5 cameras per router but that depends on the resolution and frame rate of the cameras. Higher resolutin and frame rates make for cleaner motion detection and smooth motion in videos, but takes more bandwidth and that limits the number of devices that can make use of a wireless connection. Not that additional cameras won't work at all, but that all devices will be sharing the bandwidth so they all start to miss frames of data and that affects motion detection and gives jerky motion in videos. 

Wired Ethernet can handle at least 10 times as many cameras as Wireless. 


Some cameras have low light capability but in the process cause moving objects to "smear" badly. Some smear no matter what! 


All of my cameras are inside my house viewing the outdoors though windows. This can present problems in several ways. The view can be obscured if the window fogs up due to cold outside and moist air inside. I cannot use cameras with infrared lights built-in because they reflect off the window glass and washout any image of the outside. I also have one wireless camera that loses the wireless connection when the temperature behind the curtain gets low due to the outside temperatures going down in the winter (so I shut off the wireless option and have it wired to the router. 

A lot of the high-end cameras have remote tilt and pan capability. You sit at your computer and command it to look left or up and then back to some other direction. Nice to be able to take a look around. It can also be set to constantly pan back and forth. Nice feature but counter productive when doing motion detection because panning the camera is seen as motion (it seems a computer could take panning into account, but I know of no programs that do this). 


After all my â€œplayingâ€� with this, my recommendations would be the following: 

Of course it depends on how many cameras you want to run and what their resolution and frame rates are, but -- The computer should be at least a dual-core PC with 4 Gigabytes of memory and at least 320 Gigabytes of disk space on a 7200 RPM hard drive. At least this is if you are using Windows as the operating system. If you are using a MAC then I have no idea what to use (I havenâ€™t used a MAC since they looked like the self-aware computer in the â€œBloom Countyâ€� comic strip). 

Get NetCams for the cameras. The Vitamin D Video web site has some recommendations for â€œgoodâ€� cameras, but I donâ€™t have any of those models so I canâ€™t say anything about them. My one NetCam is a TrendNET â€œTV-IP-400Wâ€�. It is okay, but the â€œWâ€� means it is a wireless version and I am not using it wirelessly so it was an expense I didnâ€™t need. It does not have great low light capability but with a 100-Watt light bulb on my garage it does okay at night viewing my backyard. Of course, this camera and its non-wireless version are no longer made by TrendNET and I know nothing of the newer models. 

USB WebCams are probably okay for indoor use where the lighting is more easily controlled. 

I have found that mounting the cameras higher so they view the area to be monitored at an angle of between 30 and 45 degrees down works better than a totally overhead view or a totally horizontal view. Monitoring from a totally overhead view makes it hard for VDV to tell the difference between an animal and a human (looking down on a personâ€™s head and shoulders is just an oblong shape in the video, not much different than the shape of a dog).. A totally horizontal view can create useless motion notices of things outside of the area of interest (like cars on the street or the neighbor two houses away out mowing the lawn). There is also the concern of the legality of what you are viewing of your neighborâ€™s property! 


I hope you can gleen something useful from my ramblings.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, for now I think I'm going with Jerry's suggestion. 

I think the spy cam will catch my thief and at least let me know what I am up against. 

I found this great trail cam shootout online and am going to go with the Bushnell one. 

http://www.trailcampro.com/2010trailcamerashootout.aspx 

It's the second rated camera (at more than 1/3 the cost of the top rated one, fond one for $145 shipped vs $500), 3 second reshoots, 45 second video clips, 45ft night vision flash range, and its really small 3.5"x5". 

If the need arises I will check out Jerry's set up for sure, looks very cool indeed. 

One thing is for sure my thief's fish eating days are numbered, I hope  

Thanks again, Ron


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Ron, 

I am sure that you will be happy with the Bushnell camera. 

One suggestion is that when you get it be sure to set it up for multiple shots. 

Since it is motion activated it is not unusual for the 1st photo to be blurred as the critter is moving (which is what triggered the camera). With multiple shots (I set my camera for 3 multiple shots) the 2nd and 3rd shots are automatic (no motion needed to trigger them) so there is a good chance the critter will be photographed while standing still. 

Night shots are much more likely to be blurred because the camera slows down to get a better exposure so especially with night shots the multiple shots work well. In my case I've added an automatic dusk to dawn light to extend the range of the camera. 

Also the IR LED's seem to annoy the buck but not the doe and small deer or the raccoons. The buck will keep his distance(about 30+ feet) from the camera at night but would walk right up to it during the day when the LED's are not flashing. You may find that if your culprit is a bird it too may shy away from the flashing LED's so at least at first I would suggest that you do not put your camera much closer than 30 feet from where you expect the critter to be. 

All the critters seem to notice the flashing LED's but other than the buck they soon get used to it and ignore it. 

The flashing LED's could be noticed by and alert a burglar but as I suspect most burglaries happen during the day (as mine did) the LED's would not be flashing then. I anticipate buying another game camera to be positioned so that it photographs every vehicle (and possibly the driver) that enters our driveway along with recording the exact date and time the vehicle (and driver) was here. Possibly a 2nd camera could be positioned so it would photograph that vehicle as it departs which would document how long the vehicle was on our property (long enough for a burglary to debunk a claim that someone was just driving through). A secondary benefit might be that if one camera was noticed and destroyed or stolen the 2nd camera might not be noticed and in either case the burglar may decide our home is not worth the effort and risk and go look for an easier target. 

I don't think it is possible to really burglar proof a home but it is possible to raise the risk factor of your home so that it is someone else who is the one who ends up paying an attorney to explain to a judge why they shot the SOB. 

Good luck, 

Jerry


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

After over twenty years living in the same house here in UK - part-time, anyhow - I'd bet that only my immediate neighbours care that I have a layout in my backyard at all. In spite of making a lot of noise with whistles, horns and general dieselly-and steamy-type sounds and having a ton of kids in the neighbourhood, as well as three or four times a years signs -TRAINS TODAY!', nobody that hasn't been invited has ever come near. 

But then, this IS the UK. 

I'd bet that even fire-fighters would wait until they had been properly introduced before they proceded onto your property to put out a blaze. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By John J on 02 Jan 2011 05:32 AM 
Is anyone doing anything about security on thier layout? 

If so What? 

Anyone doing video servalance? 

I found tire tracks in my yard. They spun donut and headed out through some cactus. 

Now that the road out front is fixed ( Sorta paved) there is no deterant for cars to drive down the road. 

I am thinking of adding video cameras to the house. Maybe even so far as a fence. 

JJ 

PS Can't use spell check cause the tool bar doint show up on the poll fourum 



Just put up a sign 'Authorised CLAYMORE Anti-personnel mine test location'. 

That might just do it. 

tac


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"Just put up a sign 'Authorised CLAYMORE Anti-personnel mine test location'. " 

Probably could use that backhoe to dig a few random holes around the property to make it convincing! (And don't forget to add some char marks in and around them.) ;>) 

Just kidding! 
David Meashey


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Ron, I am betting its a Heron. Bob Johnson down in Milton had the same problem, and it always was a heron. Those guys will clean your pond out very fast. Paul


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have no idea Paul but thanks to this thread I will find out this spring, unfortunately it will be to late for the next group of fish  

Ron


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Another option is the X-10 line of security cameras etc. 

http://www.x10.com/homepage.htm 

I have used X-10 stuff for over 20 years. I would stop short of recommending it because some of their stuff works great and other things perform marginally. One "trick" is that after you place the first order you get flooded with additional offers with major discounts so it might be best to get on their email list first (but you will get a LOT of email on all sorts of their stuff). 

As an example I am sitting in the lower part of the caboose and although I cannot see outside (no windows) I know the moment the deer or even a baby raccoon shows up to feed on the corn because they trigger the motion detectors which turn on a chime and a light inside the caboose. I also have their motion detector floodlights with built in video cameras that can film anything that moves outside. 

Additionally I use their cameras with RC swivel mounts to oversee operations on the sidings that I cannot see from the central operation station. This lets me back trains into their sidings getting them all the way in but stopped before they reach the end of the sidings. 

There can be a lot of false alarms in that the motion detectors can be triggered by branches moving in the wind. 

I use their remote controls to turn lights on and off and when I am in the crawl space running trains I am alerted by chimes and or video whenever anyone drives up in the front or rear. 

I would not put X-10 in the class of a professional security system because you could fill up a lot of surveillance tapes but I am gone so little that it works for me and if I am going to be gone longer I switch to the other systems. 

Jerry


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Good Fences Make Good Neighbors. Robert Frost


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

Not if they climb over them lol!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Or through and under them!!! 

I'm pretty sure that's it not the neighbors that are eating my fish, LOL


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I am truly blessed. I live down the street from a school. There is a sign in my yard. Every year our club and my address is listed in the paper when I do an interview. My yard is only fenced on two sides. I have lived in Chatham, Ont. for the last five years. Nothing goes missing or gets broken. 
My secret is that I invite the kids in to play with the trains. Let them run a controller, handle a few cars, and see everything closeup. I get tremendous joy from sharing this hobby with people. I find it a shame that it may be necessary to hide it all.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Dave Meashey on 28 Jan 2011 07:17 AM 
"Just put up a sign 'Authorised CLAYMORE Anti-personnel mine test location'. " 

Probably could use that backhoe to dig a few random holes around the property to make it convincing! (And don't forget to add some char marks in and around them.) ;>) 

Just kidding! 
David Meashey 






Do you think it will be better if I put some circles on the ground with the picture of a boot. Paint a red circle around the edge, Put a slash through it and the words "Don't Step Here" The on one close buy I could put " Here too"


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I just received an email announcing this new X-10 system. 

Over the years I have used various X-10 products. Some I liked (and still use) and some I have not been particularly happy with. 

Judge for yourself: 

http://www.x10.com/promotions/sc1200_security_lcd_new.html 

This is just an FYI for anyone who might be looking for choices in security systems. 

Sometimes you can get a discount on your homeowners insurance if you have a security system but I found that over the past few years this has changed where the system must have a means to phone an alarm company of the police. As far as I can see this system does not include that. 

Jerry


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Do you think it will be better if I put some circles on the ground with the picture of a boot. Paint a red circle around the edge, Put a slash through it and the words "Don't Step Here" The on one close buy I could put " Here too" 

JJ; 

Sounds pretty good, but then both of us are supposing the culprets can actually read. Makes me think of the sign in the Athletic Department of my old college. It read "Trespassers will be VIOLATED!" Caused one to stop and ponder. Then after many dateless weekends, one was almost ready to risk it! 

Anyway, hope you really do find a deterrant. 

Best wishes, 
David Meashey


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Ok here is the clencher. 

My 1978 Honda Goldwing that I put 210,000 miles on, that was in the shed because it had bad carobrators was stolen. 

I have no Idea when. I have no had a reason to go in that shed in months. 

Of course the lock was busted. 

The doors even face the house. 

JJ


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

"..watch my house on a monitor from work. Someone brings a dog to crap on my lawn, I activate the sprinklers, works every time. Greg" 

LOL !!!


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