# QSI Titan Sound Cards



## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Anyone have any idea when the QSI "Titan" Sound boards are going to be available?

I had ordered a new board for my K-27 back in Dec. At that point it was going to be the old Q2, but the place I bought it from said they were going to wait until the "new" board came out and send me that one, at no extra charge.

Well I know there have been delays by QSI, but boy I'd like to get it sometime soon.


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## tmtrainz (Feb 9, 2010)

According to the folks at the QSI booth at ECLSTS, the new boards will be available in June. 

Tom


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's what they told me when I asked--June


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Darn, June. Well I hope its worth the wait.


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## Harry Ballz (Mar 26, 2011)

Try next October..Maybe 

Seems that the QSI/TTE propaganda machine has been working overtime to pump people up with a product that's still in the development stage. 

Titan DCC is now scheduled for October release if we're lucky. 

Sound will not be 16bit, but 64bit, yes 64bit. It will have Stereo output (ie - 2 speaker outputs, where you're gonna want to fit if possible, one LF and one HF speaker inside. 

Overall, I was informed and impressed. Titan is still in the breadboard stage and is awaiting some further testing.


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Well I hate to bust your Balls there Mr Harry Ballz, 

But your information is far from correct. To say that the decoder is in breadboard form is far from the truth. It was in breadboard form over a year ago. Early release units are now starting to be shown at Private showings all over the country. As a matter of fact, a good friend of mine was at one last night, and people were going crazy over the decoder. People were offering $500 to $1000 for the one that was there. OEM's from around the world are lining up to install them in their products, and those production lines won't wait. There are companies who are investing millions into this, and for good reason. 

So I would suggest that you go back to whoever you got your information from, and let them know that they are way off base, and shouldn't be telling what they don't know. 

Loco Lee


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All, 

I called QSI and the standard large scale decoder will be out in late May, early June with the one that can handle the USA engines out in July time frame. Looking forward to getting one.


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks for the info Rich.
I have 2 QSI Sound Boards now, and can't wait to get some more soon, As i feel QSI is the SUPERIOR sound and control system in Large scale .

Like MTH says DCC Is the most and best used Control system in all scales.

Fred


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's god news--glad to hear they are on track, and looking forward to seeing what the new boards can [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

People were offering $500 to $1000 for the one that was there. OEM's from around the world are lining up to install them in their products, and those production lines won't wait. There are companies who are investing millions into this, and for good reason. 

You keep talking like that and we're going to have to start calling you Lewis Lee.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Loco Lee on 16 Apr 2011 09:04 AM 
... There are companies who are investing millions into this, and for good reason.;;;



Millions of what...cause it sure can't be dollars. There's no ROI that would warrant that that I can see.


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes Dollars. 

The market for decoders is much larger than G, or large scale. It takes over a quarter of a million, just to make the body of an HO model. There are over 100,000 Large scale modelers in the world, and we are just a drop in the bucket when you talk about the number of locomotives built world wide. Large scale is way less than 1% of total model sales world wide. Of all the Large Scale, or G Scale decoders sold or built by QSI. I'd bet that they are way less than 1/2 of 1% of the total production of QSI. I've talked with people about building my own locomotives, and have been told that if I don't have at least 2 million, to not even think about it. MTH has spent over 10 Million on his sound system, so for me to say that QSI, and others are spending millions, That's nothing. 

Loco Lee


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One thing that will show who will succeed in this market is the companies that are "big enough" to put the bucks in for development. 

QSI makes decoders for all scales, and as Lee stated, G scale sales are a drop in the bucket, so we get the advantage of all that development money for a larger market. (The basic development of the custom chip, software, etc.) 

The Sierra could not continue because it was large scale only. 

I keep wondering how Phoenix hangs on, they should have added a motor decoder long ago... I think their time "alive" will be short. 

Soundtraxx has clearly demonstrated the priority of large scale units, even though they are using all the Tsunami technology, the first venture lacked the proper engineering development to work well in large scale. There is a new board, so maybe they have solved those problems, but they are like QSI, primarily smaller scales. 

Regards, Greg


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I think there's a huge Phoenix fan base since they've been the leader so long in large scale. In fact, I don't know anyone in Sacramento who uses QSI or Zimo. I'm sure there are people, I just don't know them. It's all Phoenix or Sierra among garden railroaders I know. But I think QSI and Zimo will be the big players in the future, unless Phoenix catches up with their technology. 

I'm not decided between QSI and Zimo yet, but I think those are the only two practical choices. Not having a motor decoder in the Phoenix systems makes them more expensive and less feature rich.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 May 2011 10:43 AM 
...

I keep wondering how Phoenix hangs on, they should have added a motor decoder long ago... I think their time "alive" will be short. ....


Well, if you're just thinking in terms of DCC, that may be true. Just keep in mind that DCC is still just one segment of an already very small large scale market. There are still plenty of DC track power and battery power users that are more than happy to keep using Phoenix. Like many others, I've never seen or heard a Zimo or QSI, because I don't run DCC. We only have one DCC user in our club of 43.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, Del, I am looking at the entire hobby. 

Like you say, it's a very small market. So it's difficult to make a product that is an even smaller piece of a small market. 

The DCC decoder-based sound units are all (except Phoenix) more powerful output versions of the HO decoders already made by these companies. 

Therefore the R&D (except for the larger output transistors) is spread over a much larger profit base in these companies. 

Phoenix is pretty much only large scale, although I would guess some O scale too. So to redesign a new unit is a lot of R&D money for a small market, as opposed to SoundTraxx making a new Tsunami and selling it to N, HO, S, and O scales... 

That's my take... I just wonder how long they can keep profitable before they are forced to redesign fundamental parts of the product... 

(p.s. I have heard Sierra, Phoenix, Dallee, etc, and I don't run battery, no excuse ha ha!!!) 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

If Phoenix added a Susi interface that would go a long way to helping them compete with the integrated sound decoders in DCC. Massoth offers their sound only decoder for use with DC or DCC, and it has the Susi interface, but as far as I know there aren't many other standalone sound units that do this. Dietz I believe does which is why they are quite popular in Europe as well. All that being said, I believe there is an advantage to using an integrated sound decoder even in DC. You can have soft starts, proper chuff timing with things like smoke makers via Susi etc., so you don't have to be running DCC to get many of the advantages. If you ever make the switch to DCC, or want to run at a friend's place who has DCC, you're all set. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was all excited about SUSI when I first saw it in use between Lenz and Dietz years ago... 

But it's really impossible to compete with 2 separate circuit boards and 2 microprocessors when one can do the job. 

In the US, there's precious few motor decoders that have SUSI, and of those that are available, the support and documentation is usually in a foreign language. 

I completely agree that running an integrated motor and sound decoder on DC has a lot of advantages. Many people are surprised when they run their DCC decoder on DC... they know it works on DC, but all the sounds and momentum, etc also still works. 

I enable DC on all my locos... so if they must be run on DC, at least they will sound good! 

Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

You can even have the locomotive sit, and idle when using DC. 

Loco Lee


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

According to Lee, on the QSi yahoo group list, the Titan decoders are due in "any day now." I assume that's the HO decoders. 

I have a bunch of locos waiting for the new decoder...


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

HO decoders are at least 2 week, and G Scale are at least 2 months. These delays are due to changes that Tony requested. 

Loco Lee


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Two months! Too bad. Oh well.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Like I have said, especially about the USAT drop-ins... I'll be happy if they show by the end of the year. 

Not being a downer, but you always base the future on past performance... no schedule has ever been met on time. After waiting years for the drop ins, I'm being realistic. 

Lee did say AT LEAST 2 months... 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Hmmm, now I'm in a bind. I have a Titan on order for my B'man K-27. I really want to use it but have been in a holding pattern until the new decoder comes, expecting it to be end of May or beginning of June. Now I have no idea....and I'm not sure what to do. 

I could buy a Phoenix system with Airwire, (Because I dont think the G-wire will run a Phoenix will it?) and whenever the QSI gets to me I'll have an option for another loco.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

> Well here it is June. Large Scale decoders maybe in August?


It's kind of amazing, and makes me glad I'm not in business--QSI has had no product at all to sell in large scale since December. Maybe dealers had a few in stock till February? How can a company continue with no product to sell for 9 months? I wish them nothing but luck, and I'm sure they aren't happy about it either


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Not to give QSI any more pressure, but so we users can have realistic expectations: 

A few weeks ago I sent in the QSI drop-in decorder I purchased last winter for my RDC. Norm indicated he felt it was indeed defective and would either fix it or replace it, but "It may take a while to get the replacement to you. The QSI Aristo decoder is being replace by the new Titan Series decoders which are not out yet. They are expected later this summer". 

Nothing I or anyone can do about it, so I've dialed back my expectations for, maybe, Labor Day. 

JackM 

Having done a fair amount of retail in my life, I know how frustrating it is to have eager buyers but no stock. Ya gotta feel for 'em.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Zimo decoders work extremely well on DC and even on the 14 speed step MTS system. 

The newest MX695 even has sound and lights working before the motor starts turning, thus allowing 5 volt smoke units to 'warm up'.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 03 Jun 2011 04:30 AM 
Zimo decoders work extremely well on DC and even on the 14 speed step MTS system. 

The newest MX695 even has sound and lights working before the motor starts turning, thus allowing 5 volt smoke units to 'warm up'. 

I'd love to have the smoking capability that the Zimo decoder has, but I'm a Batt/RC guy. I still would love to have my Connie smoke like the one guy (sorry, I forgot his name) did to his. He used a Zimo/MTS combination. I'm not aware of Zimo setups working with my setup.

To answer the other guys, I'm in retail right now. And I know I would not be in business if I relied on a manufacture that could not keep me supplied for 6 months. 

I was really contemplating getting an Airwire/Phoenix setup put in my K-27 and when I ever get my QSI decoder, I'd just put it in another locomotive. But, I like to have all my stuff uniform. I dont want to be messing around with different operating systems and the like. I had made my decision a while back and I guess I'm stuck with it. 

I did just check QSI's website, they have the Aristo dropin decoders listed to be released 6/11... the USA dropins are still TBD. The generic wired one is listed as 5/11, but I'm not aware of anyone having any at this time...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's nice to pimp the Zimo decoders, but this thread was really about the QSI. I like them too, but what about coming into a thread specifically about a new Zimo delivery date and new features and pimping QSI? 

It's not a big deal, the thread is in a holding pattern for the QSI, but it would be nice to focus on the intent of the thread. 

(I'm a big Zimo customer too, but I'm more interested in what this thread is about, the new QSI Titan). 

Regards, Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, talked to Tony's Train Exchange. As Greg predicted (at least I think it was him), will probably be a few more months. So hopefully I get something by the end of the year. I was told the smaller scales had not shipped yet, and the large scale ones would be a few months after they shipped. 

All I can say is wow, I ordered my QSI decoder in December and the way things are going it will be backordered for almost year before I get one. The other dilemma is I need a second one, but I have no idea when I'll be able to get that one because I expect QSI's initial inventory when they finally release, will be gone filling up all the backorders.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

This may not be the case here. I have no idea (and I"m certainly no marketing expert) but ...


Some companies like to create a lot of hype about a product just to see what the response will be before they invest much time and effort in it. Software development seems to be a prime example, hence the term "Vaporware".


Other folks like to wait until the product has been fully developed, tested, and debugged (at least to the best of their ability at the time) before they even tell anybody about it. When the customer hears the announcement, it is ready to ship.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, many companies do this. What is different here is that QSI Solutions, who sells the G scale product is not QSI industries, who designs it. The software was apparently the holdup from QSI industries. 

Believe me, QSI Solutions is painfully aware of the delay to market, they have no product to sell. 

Regards, Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I assumed it was a manufactoring issue. I could have sworn there have been some test boards out there for demonstration purposes. I figured then that the operating system had pretty much been finished and they were haveing a problem with the production. 

I'm assuming that these boards are produced in China (cause just about everything else is) I know based on my profession, that some Chinese goods are having problems getting produced, especially electronics. 

I would assume that QSI needs to have so many produced before they can release. Most manufactors will do that. I figured the stock is not high enough yet and there are delays on the factory line. So they keep pushing back the release dates.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually not manufacturing in the hardware sense, but software used in the processor. The O/S has not changed, just the program code. Final tweaks, etc. They use a very powerful processor, and many things are "programmable". 

I don't know where the boards are actually manufactured, but I can find out where the G scale stuff is made (remember different companies)... 

The G scale decoders have typically been produced in batches of 500 or 1000. 

Regards, Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Since I started this I'll keep everyone up to date. Here is the latest...I've been told the delays are "basically solved" (Read, hopefully they are...) Here is the most recent release dates on the Titan.

Titan Series Products Planned (updated June 2011) Models Scale Format Release Titan-A HO/S/0 Atlas / Athearn Board Replacement Format 7/11 Titan-U HO/S/0 Universal Generic Format with NMRA 8 Plug 6/11 Titan Aristo G Aristo / Polks, PNP G Locomotives 8/11 Titan Magnum O-G Universal Generic Format 8/11 Titan-USA G PnP USA Trains Variations TBD Titan Driver HO/S/O Non sound PNP BEMF mobile decoder to accommodate the plug-in “Sound Plug” 9/11 Titan Sound Plug HO/S/O Sound Only Plug-In to the Titan Driver 9/11 Titan Micro N Narrow N Scale (0.39” W) TBD GWire Receiver-TE All GWire Wireless Receiver Compatible with “Crest” Train Engineer “Revolution Wireless Control System” 9/11 


So as we have been discussing, towards the end of the summer for those of you, like me, who are waiting on thier Titan.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The telling point is: has anything shipped? According to that schedule, the Titan-U should have shipped... once it is shipping, then I would make "my" schedule starting from that point, and going out one, two, or three months as the posted schedule does. 

Without any "first release", the schedule sort of means nothing, my opinion (and experience). 

Regards, Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I completely agree with you Greg. I was hesitant from even posting the updated schedule, because I was also told the Titan-U hasn't shipped. But I figured keep everyone up to date...


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

Tony told me on the 7th of July, about two more weeks, thats the third or fourth time I've been two more weeks or next month etc, getting ridiculous at this point. Been waiting for a replacement board since Feb or March.... kevin


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

February?? Lol You're not even close to the front of the line.
QSI owes me four boards since September of last year. 
Hopefully we're all be happy soon.

Ron


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm sure Tony is just repeating what he has been told, but the estimations have continued to be incredibly far off. I don't really know how a company can function without a better idea of when products will actually be available. I can understand a few months delay, stuff happens, but years of delays? I just searched my email and found a few quotes from when I last asked Tony about the new QSI boards: 

"Not yet but soon, several months" -3/23/09 

"Thanks for your inquiry. Expect in 8-12 weeks." -9/2/09 

"Still in design 4 weeks to prototype." -12/8/09


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well Rod has got me, I've been waiting since early Dec. But I'm ahead of the line with Kevin....









Sooooo....its July 26th and still no decoder. That October date is coming up real fast, like Greg predicted.

I'd hate to be in Tony's shoes on this. I already paid for my decoder in Dec. and I'm sure a lot of us have already paid for their stuff. He is going to get a stock of these at some point and probably all of them will go out and he wont get any revenue off them, since the money was collected long ago. Not that I think Tony's is going to go "belly-up" from this, but just an observation.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been waiting since December as well. It's sort of mind boggling. What does the entity known as QSI--meaning the entity that actually sells the boards--make any money. How long could Ford go with no cars?


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

I just need mine under warranty, it might be longer when I sent it in, Just dont care to check on it lol. Sent Tony another email, was told drum rolllllllllllll "should be in two weeks" again. I can see a delay here and there, but this is ridiculous at this point. Heads should roll! LOL. Bad business and lost sales for this.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Ok, it's now mid august and has anyone received any of these yet? Just checking.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I had a talk recently with Tony. He said the HO versions were shipping, so now we know the silicon is done (the custom microprocessor at the heart of the system). 

He said the G scale board was in layout (figuring out where the components go on the board). 

So we are getting closer. No news if the firmware for the G scale is finalized, but if it's any indication, the G scale firmware was basically the same as the HO scale one. 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well that means your October timeline is still right Greg. I hate it when your right...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

well, hopefully it will happen in that time frame... it looks do-able... I'll try to get an update soon from QSI solutions. 

I need about 10 of them right now 

Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

"check's in the mail" Don't count on anything till yer a holdin whatever in yer hands. Regal


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

The date Tony gave me came and went two weeks ago yet again, at this point its beyond ridiculous!! Quite unprofessional for a business to run...


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

This (delays) went on when the Aristo and Magnum sound decoders were to come out. Shipment from China is beyond his control and it would just be better if he just announced that they will be available "some day' and left it at that.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Why vendors announce products BEFORE they exist is beyond me. I have new stuff in the works. You will hear about it when it is ready to ship!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo normally announces a loco 6 years before it comes out, so this is not unusual.... there's lots of different reasons for announcing dates that cannot be kept. 

Anyway, I predicted October, and I think we will make it, but we will see. 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The QSI Solutions website is now saying November for G scale decoders--11/11


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Not going to hold my breath on that date either. This has been on going now for over 2 years of revisions. Sounds like AC all over again promise but can not deliver. Why bother to even post that they are coming in two weeks. Ha every time you ask it's two weeks. Better to say nothing than to keep everyone hanging.







Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I was messing with the new QSI software yesterday, and I really can't see what't different. Maybe Im just confused.

When the Titan decoders come out, will there be all new sound files? or the same sound files they used with the "magnum" deconder?

The sound files you get with the latest software are mostly the same, with some new ones available.

It's not clear how you are supposed to implement the much touted "stereo" feature. I kind of assumed you would be able to set up two speakers, and then "pan" the sounds. But there's nothing in the Q2 Upgrade software that suggests this.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 06 Sep 2011 05:18 AM 
I was messing with the new QSI software yesterday, and I really can't see what't different. Maybe Im just confused.

When the Titan decoders come out, will there be all new sound files? or the same sound files they used with the "magnum" decoder?

The sound files you get with the latest software are mostly the same, with some new ones available.

It's not clear how you are supposed to implement the much touted "stereo" feature. I kind of assumed you would be able to set up two speakers, and then "pan" the sounds. But there's nothing in the Q2 Upgrade software that suggests this.


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Yes they are recording all new sound files for their engines, they will be of higher quality and have more options to take advantage on the increased memory available on the Titan boards.
They will also have the ability to alter there sound using the new built in equalizer allowing you to add more base or treble as you like.
The new multi speaker stereo effect will allow you to direct what sounds come from which speakers, for instance if you have a Dash-9 and two speakers you can have the engine sounds coming from the rear speaker and the horn/bell coming from the front ones, I think it is a cool idea for the longer engines.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've replied to lownote's questions on the other QSI thread... look at the version 2.0 software a bit more closely, the "balance" between speaker 1 and speaker 2 is in there... no luck finding the equalizer yet. 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Greg when I was working with John at QSI industries in Oregon, trying to get my USA Trains GG1 fixed right, he made it sound like the G scale versions of the Titan boards will have more features in the new sound files, like the equalizer built into the new sound files because it will have more memory (8 megs) than the smaller boards. He also told me that they were in the process recording all new sound files for the Titan G scale boards.
I don't think any of the "New" stuff is ready yet because he said that it will be called Q3 and I only saw Q2 stuff available for DL right now.

But I may be wrong as it seams everything about the Titan seems to be a fluid situation.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's a new version of the software out just this evening 2.1.0.0 .... have not seen what is changed yet... what we need is a Titan master sound file... but none for download yet. 

I'll see what I can come up with. 

Greg


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## NANCYS TRAINS (Sep 11, 2011)

Yes I just received 4 from QSI on the 9/9/2011 the 
Gas Turbine
Medium Steam Master File
I HAD THIS ORDERD
Electric Master File
2100
730
Gas Turbine
5100
760
Small Steam Master File
3100
801
Medium Steam Master File
3100
802
Large Steam Master File
3100
803
Articulated Master File
4100
900
there no sound files listed on QSI site


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## NANCYS TRAINS (Sep 11, 2011)

Yes I just received 4 from QSI on the 9/9/2011 the 
Gas Turbine 
Medium Steam Master File 
I HAD THIS ORDERD 

Electric Master File	2100	730 
Gas Turbine	5100	760 
Small Steam Master File	3100	801 
Medium Steam Master File	3100	802 
Large Steam Master File	3100	803 
Articulated Master File	4100	900 
there no sound files listed on QSI site


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## NANCYS TRAINS (Sep 11, 2011)

There no sound files listed on QSI site YET


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I assume you have an HO decoder? 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Hows' the sound? What are the differences programing it? @import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## NANCYS TRAINS (Sep 11, 2011)

I just talked to QSI Titan all the steam sound are going to ship this weak .and THE diesel sounds in about 2 weeks. The sound files are to be on QSI web site IN A few days .Toney is checking on it I'M to give him a call tomorrow


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Was that for large scale? or just for HO?

I've got a bunch of locos awaiting cards...


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

It's probably HO here is the release schedule, and probably will be later than the release date too!!!! Regal 

http://qsisolutions.com/products/q-titan.html 

Not till Nov Dec 2011, and some 1/2012


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I have to agree. Gotta be HO. From what people have been saying here the Ho boards had shipped, so it would seem logical that Nancy is talking about an HO one. Not a Large scale one.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

HO, I talked to TTX today, and they are finalizing the features and layout of the G scale stuff. Looking at best way to map new additional features to the unused pins on the Aristo socket is one thing, for example. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg. Does that "for example" also include the possibility of applying those unused pins as sound triggers?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes tony, the current plans call for 2 to 4 pins for trigger "inputs"... 

I'm reviewing now... 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

The triggers will be nice. Too bad they dont add something to drive a smoke unit with a chuff/load capability. Its amazing to me that they haven't added this feature. Large scale locomotives are a prime candidate for this feature.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's in the plan also... 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Now your just teasing!!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nope... not teasing... reviewing document tonight, it's in there as a requested feature... 

Can't reveal everything, they are finalizing the feature list. Even though the HO units are shipping, the G scale ones have more outputs and higher current ones, and unique things like the trigger inputs. 

Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Sep 2011 08:39 PM 
Nope... not teasing... reviewing document tonight, it's in there as a requested feature... 

Can't reveal everything, they are finalizing the feature list. Even though the HO units are shipping, the G scale ones have more outputs and higher current ones, and unique things like the trigger inputs. 

Greg 
So Greg ... Just curious. What is your relationship with QSI? Consultant? Beta tester? Employee?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Unpaid consultant, sort of, I offer advice, they ask my opinion. I have never accepted anything free, except 2 items sent to me (unrequested) by Aristo (both were crap), and one switch machine for my help and work by Train-Li. My interest stemmed from wanting to improve the product and I use a lot of them, because of the price/performance. 

Beta tester? You bet, getting in early allows you to help shape the product and get one sooner, of course the beta hardware is usually worthless after the real product comes out. 

Employee? Nope, but if I could stay alive working only with trains, that would be great. 

I helped test and work with the feature set on the first version. I have some really early beta hardware for the USAT dropins, to prove how it could be made modular and fit several locos. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok so is there an update on availability?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

nope


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## WSOR (Jun 27, 2010)

So are the Titan Aristo and Magnum ready for release on Friday? Whats the status on these?


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## NANCYS TRAINS (Sep 11, 2011)

Hi just talked to Toney at QSI the Titan Ariosto and Magnum will not be out for at lees 8 weeks


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

WoW another delay, now theres a shocker








Looks like my new engines will have to wait untill next year to hit the rails.
What sucks is my new USA F3's and SD70's will be out of warranty before they are even run









Ron


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yeah I have a bachman Mallet that I've been waiting on to put mine in. Right now it is just track power.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Was there any kind of explanation for this astonishing and endless delay? Just about a year ago they were "two months away."


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yes, the manufacturer - QSI Industries had one setback in the custom silicon... that's the only one that is not attributable to bad estimates of time to complete. By the way, QSI Solutions, has not contributed to the delay... 

Greg


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

I like many have been waiting. The QSI Titan page now says Jan-Feb. 2012. 

Steve


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By RIrail on 08 Nov 2011 10:36 PM 
I like many have been waiting. The QSI Titan page now says Jan-Feb. 2012. 

Steve 
Which if experience is any guide, means that sometime in January they'll announce "March/April." And come April it'll be "May/June." By the time the thing is out it will be obsolete, and they'll pull it and announce a fantastic new decoder, the "Behemoth," which will have quadrophonic sound, a built-in bottle opener, and magic radar which can find all your lost socks. Out in 2-3 months.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Hopefully Aristo will have their sound out long before these show up. Their sound will be not as good but at least it will be sound and control all in one unit. I heard the updated steam an diesel at the ECLSTS a few weeks ago the they sound good. Jake @import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## reeveha (Jan 2, 2008)

according to the QSI website, QSI is to release a G-Wire board that will communicate with the Revolution transmitter. Release date TBD.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I think QSI would be ill advised to start selling a new product before actually having the G scale Titan boards available in the stores. Like many others, I've been waiting long enough for three G Titans. If they come up with a new product before delivering what has already been promised, any loyalty I have toward them would immediately disappear. Permanently. 

JackM


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Jack, I feel like that's what has already happened. Maybe not officially, but rumors of a drop-in board for USA Trains were already around for a couple years before they announced the Titan, with upgrades to the Aristo-Craft and Generic boards, but with the USA Trains drop-in still in the distant future. So essentially they did announce a new product before delivering on the previous product.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Guys, EVERYONE announces a new product before they deliver it... took 6 years for Aristo to make the Consolidation, Sountraxx talked about the large scale Tsunami for 6 years, and I can go on and on. 



USAT QSI board: (I have 2 of these prototypes)


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Geeeeeeeeeeeez Greg you get all the good stuff!! LOL Regal


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10 Nov 2011 01:54 PM 
Guys, EVERYONE announces a new product before they deliver it... 

Not everyone. But I'm just a little spit in the ocean.


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## keitht (Jan 28, 2010)

I am a great fan of the QSI cards but given the broken promises on availability, I was told "two weeks" some five weeks ago, and when you bear in mind the protracted gestation of the card I have to say I would have misgivings about buying one of the first ones. The last thing I want is to pay top price only to be a guinea pig for a 'work in progress'.


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## darkdaniel100 (Dec 26, 2008)

Sorry if this has been asked before but ...


Has there been any mention if the new QSI Titan cards will support synchronised smoke ?

Have been looking at those Zimo cards and the smoke feature is very interesting 

Thanks !


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I have heard that the large scale titan will have outputs to drive a smoke generator.


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

I have been searching for a QSI card that has the sound of a Porter to put in my latest LGB build. Unfortunately I am unable to play the available sound files because I only have a Mac. What is the chance that QSI will create an App for it? 

I am holding back in hopes that I can get a used one or something else That I will be able to fit in the porter so that I can have it DCC ready for the summer.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the odds of an mac-compatible program from QSI are zero--I've asked them about it several times, no interest. 

But I got around it by installing windows on my mac. I bought the cheapest available version of windows and installed it for QSI and a few other programs. It works perfectly. You can boot up in windows, then restart and be back to the mac.

QSI's sound files can be heard live, over the web, here: 

http://qsisolutions.com/sounds/index.html 

Apparently they are re-doing a lot of the sounds for the titan. What's on the web at the link above is the sounds for the magnum. The titan will involve a new version of the software programmer, to take advantage of the new capabilities, and as far as I can tell a lot of new sound files which may or may not be playable on the old decoder. It's a little unclear. 

I've gotten more and more disgusted with QSI, the company--the endless delay, but also the lack of clear information, not just about when the new decoders come out, but the lack of clarity about updates and what sond files work with what program. 

but you can hear the sound files for the older, "magnum" decoders at the link above


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## darkdaniel100 (Dec 26, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 03 Dec 2011 05:10 AM 
I have heard that the large scale titan will have outputs to drive a smoke generator. 
Thanks ! I guess I will hold off from buying a Zimo card unitl I can see what QSI have to offer


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been doing the same--I have a USAT "docksider" that I want to install synchronized smoke in. Been waiting 9 [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Greg said that the new Titan will be able to drive a smoke generator. 

As far as sound files go. Its going to be a little different. The Titan has a massive memory upgrade and so most sound files are already loaded on the board. That means you do not have to have the sounds preloaded or load a sound file off the internet because the entire sound library is already on-board. It will mean doing some programming with the QSI programmer to switch the sounds around to your liking. This is also nice because if you happen to originally put the board in a K-27, you can move it to a Porter and all you have to do is change the sounds. No need to download them.


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## darkdaniel100 (Dec 26, 2008)

Posted By jake3404 on 05 Dec 2011 02:25 PM 
Greg said that the new Titan will be able to drive a smoke generator. 

As far as sound files go. Its going to be a little different. The Titan has a massive memory upgrade and so most sound files are already loaded on the board. That means you do not have to have the sounds preloaded or load a sound file off the internet because the entire sound library is already on-board. It will mean doing some programming with the QSI programmer to switch the sounds around to your liking. This is also nice because if you happen to originally put the board in a K-27, you can move it to a Porter and all you have to do is change the sounds. No need to download them. 
Thanks for reply, guess we can only wait and see when the QSI Titan finally shows itself 

I am really hoping we get more control with custom sound files (hopefully be able to have more than just one custom sound...)


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Two days ago I was told by Tony they were due "in about eight weeks." February.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I know about the idea to put a number of sounds (or all sounds or all steam sounds) in the board, but it's not finalized, and not clear what the final outcome will be, and if you can switch sounds by CV's or have to use the programmer, so I have not commented on this. 

With all the rumors and pent-up need, I am cautious to report something that does not seem 100% solid. 


Working on the final pin out of the unit, going to have a lot more functions available, and the smoke heater and the smoke fan will be separate outputs. 

Regards, Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Sorry if I wasnt clear. Greg never said anything about the sound files. I got that direct off the QSI website. I assumed that it was finalized then.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm still trying to decide if it is marketing strategy to hype up something months or years?) before it is ready for market, or just plain stupid. Shows a lot of confidence that I will be done eventually, I guess.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I think it is a bit of stupidity, Del. But, with such limited options they can get away with it.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Read somewhere where you have to get a new programmer for the new Titan also, correct me if I'm wrong but read it somewhere possibly on their site QSI Regal


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## NANCYS TRAINS (Sep 11, 2011)

You do not have to get a new programmer for the new Titan I have programmed around 8 now no problem


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Your speaking of HO I believe, I am speaking of G-scale Titans that are not out yet!! Regal


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## NANCYS TRAINS (Sep 11, 2011)

yes ho


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

the programming is done from the track inputs, so the HO ones will program the same as the G scale ones, from the "Rails". 

Greg


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All,

Let's be realistic here, many of us are very willing to wait for the features that QSI is offering for the price/point. If Phoenix and others did not continue to offer sound systems that cost more than many engines most of us would not wait. I hope QSI is wonderfully successful in releasing this offering just to give some of the others a real run for their money.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Well here we are in January, the first part of the "Jan./Feb 2012" arrival date listed on the QSI website. Anybody have any news? 

The thing I ended up liking most about QSI was the way the engine sound/chuff varied under load. I have one Phoenix card and while the individual sounds are excellent, I find it gets monotonous and irritating. With QSI card the effect is much more realistic--on an upgrade, they labor; going down, they drift and get quiet. It makes the loco "fit" the layout much better. 

I'm hoping they improved this feature, but I thought it was excellent already.


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

So why not engage the drifting function for steam or the working load for diesels? Has been on the phoenix systems for YEARS. Johnson bar adjustment for steam on teh 2k2, pb9, pb11 and p5/p8 works just like the real thing. Or perhaps we can talk about QSi vaporware FOR another 18 MONTHS, and get DCC experts to suggest and recommend to all they should use QSi . The Phoenix can be set for amount of compensation, and the speed of change from power to drift and back again. 
To each his own.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The QSI card does it automatically, in response to load on the motor, and its doing it right in all the locos I run that already have QSI cards in them


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

The beginning of this thread said "June." It just didn't say which year...


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

..............Or decade??


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Lownote wrote: "The QSI does it automatically." 
I am well aware of this arcane point. I sold a great many QSI decoders- when you could actually get them as a real product. The statement was made that Phoenix is monotonous. This is only true if you choose not to engage the available functions, a user choice. Real engines do not drift automatically, they require Johnson bar movement, an action by the engineer. Do you want to simply watch your automatic trains or actually operate them? One simple sound effect, auto load compensation, does not make for a realistic sound file when so much other stuff is missing, or not controllable The Phoenix has a great many "automatic" functions, far more than most folks realize. These can be chosen to be manual or auto, left as functions, or left as background. Pretty far from monotonous. Will the vaporware QSI perform a rod clank startup function? Does the vaporware QSI have startup and stop , or even directional toots, whether manual or automatic? Will it offer randomization functions for Airpumps, both slow and fast? Does the QSI airpump sound exactly alike on all 4 or 5 American steam sound file they actually offered, or is it different on a selective sampling of a large steam library? Does it allow blowdown sequences controlled by the operator and change the blow down sound as the function shifts from one side to the other? Real is real. Not an interpretation of functions not used. If you do not know how or what a real steam loco does or sounds like,, including all the background stuff then go and hear a real one , listen carefully and learn.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I did that. I went to the CRRM for their Halloweed train special, and stood and listened - and recorded - D&RGW 346, from the ground and from just behind the tender. 

I observed a number of things, including her slipping coming out of the "station", the sound of the compressor, and the one thing that really sounds bad on the Q-2, the generator "whine" is too loud. It should be much quieter, something I plan on adjusting in my Q-2's. 

As for the other observations, the QSI does work off of back EMF, so when you let off the throttle after cresting a hill and start coasting, it starts the rod clanking, if you don't back off and accelerate, it continues to chuff, albeit without as much effort in the sound. I went back to my videos, and I never heard nor saw any kind of rod clank starting out on 346. 

I've heard the "slipping" sounds in the QSI, but I think it would be better if I used the chuff sensors instead of the calibration, I'm going to try it on one of my K's and compare. I fully realize that 346 isn't a K-27, but OTOH, it's probably closer than a standard gauge loco would be. 

I don't think it's fair to compare the automatic whistle function, since the QSI's have that feature disabled - due to threat of a lawsuit by Phoenix. In addition, on one hand you criticize the automatic functions in the QSI while praising the Phoenix automatic functions. 

My comment about "June" was kind of tongue in cheeck. Everything in the modelling world, from cars to planes to trains takes 2 years to come to market after it's announced. Sometimes longer, depending. 

I only wish they'd continued marketing the Q2 while waiting for the Titan to come out, but OTOH, how many people would have "settled"? 

Robert


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

OTOH, how many people would have "settled"? 
Likely many--the same folks who have said "next time, but for now I'll try someone else because I want sound and control _now,_ not at some date in the future." I can think of close to a dozen folks I've talked to over the past year or so who would have bought QSI if it were available, but went with another manufacturer instead. Money lost, and "loyal" customers forced to try the grass on the other side of the fence. Maybe they'll come back, but maybe not. Not everyone needs or wants all the "bells and whistles" that many of these boards offer. Also, you've got folks who have sent their QSI boards in for repair only to be told "we'll ship a replacement once the Titans ship." On one hand, sure--it's great they're "upgrading" the customer at no cost. But on the other hand, the customer is now out the locomotive waiting for the board to come back when??? So what happens? If the customer wants to run that loco, he's now looking at greener pastures as well. 

Now, I don't know the circumstances behind the delays, and perhaps they were fully prepared to have some overlap when the timeline was originally set in motion, so I don't want to heap too much criticism on them. Still, not having a product to sell is generally not a good thing for businesses, and if it can in any way be prevented, I think it behooves a company to take those steps. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Trust me, QSI Solutions was not happy about not having product to sell either. You will hear differing stories on why the delays, but I know it's not from lack of effort on QSI Solutions' part and that's all I will say on that subject. 

This thread is on the QSI, but now it seems to break down into a comparison with the Phoenix. I don't want to get embroiled in that either, the facts are there, and for people really interested in the differences, I suggest you take a look at the respective manuals for each product. One is a pamphlet, the other a huge book. (Hint, the one with the huge book has many more options and configurations). 

I've been participating in the final configuration, from the standpoint of the number of pins, screw terminals and compatibility, and Stan Ames was tapped for his intimate knowledge of the "Bachmann Socket"... It's been quite a while, but it's going to be worth the wait, at least for me. 


Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By K27_463 on 07 Jan 2012 08:20 PM 
Lownote wrote: "The QSI does it automatically." 
I am well aware of this arcane point. I sold a great many QSI decoders- when you could actually get them as a real product. The statement was made that Phoenix is monotonous. This is only true if you choose not to engage the available functions, a user choice. Real engines do not drift automatically, they require Johnson bar movement, an action by the engineer. Do you want to simply watch your automatic trains or actually operate them? One simple sound effect, auto load compensation, does not make for a realistic sound file when so much other stuff is missing, or not controllable The Phoenix has a great many "automatic" functions, far more than most folks realize. These can be chosen to be manual or auto, left as functions, or left as background. Pretty far from monotonous. Will the vaporware QSI perform a rod clank startup function? Does the vaporware QSI have startup and stop , or even directional toots, whether manual or automatic? Will it offer randomization functions for Airpumps, both slow and fast? Does the QSI airpump sound exactly alike on all 4 or 5 American steam sound file they actually offered, or is it different on a selective sampling of a large steam library? Does it allow blowdown sequences controlled by the operator and change the blow down sound as the function shifts from one side to the other? Real is real. Not an interpretation of functions not used. If you do not know how or what a real steam loco does or sounds like,, including all the background stuff then go and hear a real one , listen carefully and learn. 


Listen carefully and learn, indeed. I've spent a great deal of time with the one Phoenix card that I have , and I stated my experience. I don't need you to tell me that my conclusions are incorrect, nor do I need you to tell me what level of "real" I should aspire to. 

There's nothing "arcane" about the automated sound I mentioned--for the way we like to run, it makes a big difference in effectiveness of the sound card. It's a remarkable useful and attractive feature on our small line. For some reason, my interest in that feature offends you, and you feel a need to belittle it. Please let me know through what retail outlet you sell "lots of decoders," and I will make sure to have nothing to do with it. Listen carefully, and learn.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow Mike, Jonathan SELLS QSI along with about every other sound card available and RC systems. He's been doing this for over twenty years. Seems a little harsh to come back at the man who was just trying to help and give his opinion on QSI. Gone are the days apparently, of having discussions without drinking the Koolaid.









I have two Phoenix systems-BOTH steam. I have been doing more tweaking on these since Christmas when I truly found out just what these cards could REALLY do.

And as for doing all these sounds automatically by whatever the locomotives motor is doing..........I'm not really a steam loco expert, but I have operated many ride-on live steamers for over thirty five years and believe me, there is NOTHING automatic with these remarkable beasts.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

While I am friends (I think so, ha ha!) with Jonathan, and purchase everything I can from him when I see him at shows, I think a number of his statements are out "there" and don't blame Mike at all.


To wit:
"I am well aware of this arcane point." 

huh? This is a great feature, embraced by all top quality decoders. You cannot do anything but poorly simulate the load on a loco by monitoring speed. The ability of the ESU, Massoth, Zimo, and QSI sound (and motor) decoders to use BEMF to read the real load on a loco and change the sound is a fantastic feature. I heard the Lenz-DEITZ combo years ago, and then waited 6 years on empty promises by SoundTraxx to produce a large scale Tsunami.

This is one of the most appreciated features, and, like most things in the QSI, you can tune it to your liking to the nth degree.

The automated drift sound when you throttle back sharply is also great.

I don't understand belittling the features that many people like AND you can tune AND you can turn off if you wish. (and Phoenix does not possess)


Other than the automated whistle when starting off, I cannot think of ANYTHING the Phoenix can do that the QSI does not do better, with one exception, at the current time, I believe that the Phoenix sound files on certain locos are superior. QSI has recorded new files, and has a new system of playback, so I don't believe this advantage will last long.

QSI has many different air pumps available, as well as whistles, horns, prime movers, etc, AND you can configure them yourself, rather be STUCK with a fixed configuration (albeit usually accurate) from Phoenix.

Maybe Jonathan has not delved into seeing how you can change the automated sounds, the individual volumes, and soon the balance between speakers on the QSI.

In terms of flexibility, ability to configure, and number of options, the QSI is so far ahead of the Phoenix, I cannot understand why this is not clear to people who have read the manual. 


I find it hard to believe that Jonathan has not, so I'm a little surprised at the response. 


Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 08 Jan 2012 07:58 AM 
Wow Mike, Jonathan SELLS QSI along with about every other sound card available and RC systems. He's been doing this for over twenty years. Seems a little harsh to come back at the man who was just trying to help and give his opinion on QSI. Gone are the days apparently, of having discussions without drinking the Koolaid.









I have two Phoenix systems-BOTH steam. I have been doing more tweaking on these since Christmas when I truly found out just what these cards could REALLY do.

And as for doing all these sounds automatically by whatever the locomotives motor is doing..........I'm not really a steam loco expert, but I have operated many ride-on live steamers for over thirty five years and believe me, there is NOTHING automatic with these remarkable beasts.










He won't be selling any of them to me. 

No "kool aid" has been drunk. Could we have a moratorium on that idiotic phrase? If you like, I could send you a long chain of irritated emails I've sent to QSI, or you could look back and see the many many time here where I've been critical of their delays, and/or noted shortcomings in the product.

What I was offered was neither "help" nor "discussion" --read it again and see.

As to automation, yes, I've noticed significant differences between actual steam engines and the small toys that run in my garden. Thanks for pointing the difference out anyway-a very useful addition to the discussion indeed.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

"As to automation, yes, I've noticed significant differences between actual steam engines and the small toys that run in my garden. Thanks for pointing the difference out anyway-a very useful addition to the discussion indeed." Lownote

Mike, 

I hope you meant this as a compliment.







I took it as such. Good luck with the QSI product. Like Greg mentioned above that HE has heard the latest sound files from QSI and they are superior to Phoenix. But a promise to consumers that they will show-up in our homes is just....a promise. I am not a computer geek. So when I download various ROM files to use on my locos, I'm a little leary to do much tweaking of various aspects of the software. After e-mailing Paul Burch and exchanging various configuration files between us, I see just how "powerful" the software really is. One thing I saw in the latest ROM from Phoenix, was to include the sound of the injector working. Could be AUTO or done manually. Those are the kind of sounds I enjoy having BECAUSE I do operate the real thing.

Now off my derailing of your thread and back to my corner of the room.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Both Phoenix and QSI have their individual strengths and weaknesses. (I sincerely hope QSI figures out with the Titan that rod clank does not drop in pitch as the speed of the locomotive decreases.) I run both, I love both. I'd readily recommend either to anyone looking for a sound system. Both systems are very "vanilla" by factory defaults, needing the software interface to get the "most" out of them. True, there are subtle differences in the mechanisms each board uses to vary the chuff based on load, presumed load, etc., but in all the playing around I've done with both boards, both are surprisingly similar in performance. I think the QSI is a bit more "predictable" in how it responds, but the Phoenix has a richer variation (and more customization) in terms of cadence. 

The reality is that it's the ancillary things that typically tip the tables one way or the other. If you're running DCC, then you're likely to go with QSI because it combines motor and sound for less than the cost of the Phoenix, let alone whatever motor driver you'd need in addition. If you're running analog track power, then the Phoenix is designed to work very well in that environment without the need for additional electronics. Those aspects weigh into the decision as much, if not more, than the quality of the sounds. Battery power? When you factor in the G-wire receiver that's needed with the QSI, the Phoenix plus whatever throttle system cost is very comparable. 

How do I choose which system to use? I listen to the whistle. I find a whistle that "fits" the steam loco I'm installing it in, then buy whichever system that happens to be. I know that I can go into the software and tweak each board's performance to be highly realistic in terms of how it responds to changes in speed, etc. I know that I can pick and choose (to varying degrees) the specific chuff, bell, and other sounds that go along with it. The truth is, I like the variation that having both systems gives me. No two steam locos--even of the same design--were the same in terms of how they sound. Running both systems broadens the palette in terms of the variation and personality I can impart to each of my locomotives. I don't really understand how anyone can support the claim that only one of these two boards is "realistic." They're both "A" boards in terms of realism. 

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing/hearing what improvements the Titan brings to the table. Quite honestly, I really don't know how "hearable" some of these talked-about improvements in quality will be listening to them through 3" speakers in less-than-ideal enclosures (let alone 3/4" speakers in an HO-scale loco) but hey. More power to 'em for making them. In the mean time, I'll buy what _is_ on the market, as it's 95% satisfactory for my needs. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A couple of niggles/corrections/comments Kevin:

Cadence is normally defined as the "beat".

Both the phoenix and qsi can use a chuff switch, which will trigger at the same rotation each time, so there they are exactly the same.

In terms of "autochuff" when the chuff is determined electronically, the QSI is far superior, haveing not only a coarse and fine adjustment, but it actually counts motor rpm.


Now if you meant cadence other than the standard definition of the word, like the "coloring" of the chuff, again I would maintain the QSI is superior, since there are several factors that can affect it, and they are adjustable.

If you mean more like the drifting sounds, I'd say they are close to a wash, but the qsi does it by load and can be controlled manually, the phoenix, of course cannot since it only senses speed.

By the way, I know you are a steam guy, but you seem to forget diesel sounds on most of your sound posts. The diesel side, specifically notching, is very adjustable on the qsi, I don't think it is adjustable at all on the phoenix.

Another comment is that while you state you have a DCC system, you don't seem to use it, since you can adjust all the sounds and volumes, and virtually everything on the fly on DCC... the only people who have to rely on the software for adjustment are DC only folks.


Lastly, while changing whistles needs the software, the best way to choose a "sound set" is to select the prime mover first, steam or diesel. Then you can select the other things afterwards, also remembering there can be a whistle and and alternate whistle, so you can pick 2. 


I'm not giving you a hard time, but your statements seem based on a very limited use of the real capabilities of the QSI. That's ok, but making comparisions on the capabilities should be based on the actual capabilities.

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm not giving you a hard time, but your statements seem based on a very limited use of the real capabilities of the QSI. 
Funny, considering over the past three or so years, I've become very well versed in the capabilities of the QSI pretty much at your prompting--mostly as a result of your tireless promotion of the QSI's functions which I enjoy using, but also as a result of similar criticisms you've launched at me over that time prompting me to read more just to counter your criticisms. You really should give yourself more credit for inspiring others to dig deeper into the board's capabilities on their own. If there's anything in this discussion that I don't understand, it's the perceived need for such fierce brand loyalty. I don't think anyone in this discussion has remotely come close to poo-pooing QSI, so there's no need to defend it against "the others." Both Phoenix and QSI are top-drawer systems, and to be able to choose between them on features as esoteric as which whistle you like better speaks volumes to their mutual quality. 

Lastly, while changing whistles needs the software, the best way to choose a "sound set" is to select the prime mover first, steam or diesel. 
I sincerely hope you're not presuming to tell me how I should pick _my_ sounds for _my_ locomotives on _my_ railroad. Because if that were the case, I'd have to tell you to go soak your head. I'm sure, however that what you _really_ meant to say was that choosing sounds as you describe works well for you personally, but how I best choose mine for my own needs is entirely up to me. 

...In terms of "autochuff" when the chuff is determined electronically, the QSI is far superior, haveing not only a coarse and fine adjustment, but it actually counts motor rpm. 
I've not used Autochuff on the Phoenix (to be honest, I couldn't even tell you how to turn it on, it's such a non-issue for me), but I'm here to tell you QSI's leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accuracy. I've played a lot with it on various steam locos which didn't have reliable triggers, and I've gotten it to work well exactly once. And when I took that sound file and applied it to a QSI board in an identical installation on an identical locomotive, it behaved entirely differently. I also have one whose rate varies relative to the input voltage. (i.e., as the battery drains, the frequency for a given RPM of the motor changes.) Maybe it is better than Phoenix's, but it's a L-O-N-G way from perfect. Give me triggers any day of the week. 

...since you can adjust all the sounds and volumes, and virtually everything on the fly on DCC... 
Fair enough, but I was coming from the perspective of customizing entire sound files, not just adjusting the volumes and their behaviors. (Could have been stated more clearly.) Now, the Titan looks to have multiple sound files all on the board, if I'm understanding things correctly, you can switch sound files (i.e., GE to EMD, etc.) with just reprogramming a CV. If that's the case, I like that. (One could argue it's a long time coming, since other decoders have had that level of functionality--though usually because their libraries were very limited and they didn't offer software-based sound file swapping.) Still, a welcome advance over the old. Besides, if you've got the programming software, why would you use the CVs? Even with the most user-friendly of hand-held controllers, it's still a comparative pain. 

...Now if you meant cadence other than the standard definition of the word, like the "coloring" of the chuff, again I would maintain the QSI is superior, since there are several factors that can affect it, and they are adjustable. 
"Color" is a much better word, you're right. Now whether QSI is "superior" to the Phoenix or not, that's very subjective. No doubt you believe it, and no doubt I have a differing opinion. I find with the way I run my trains, I can get greater variation in the chuff from the Phoenix. Its behavior is a bit more erratic than with the QSI, but neither is remotely objectionable. And neither performance "issues" are the result of a lack of understanding of the mechanisms in play. 

By the way, I know you are a steam guy, but you seem to forget diesel sounds on most of your sound posts. 
I don't "forget" diesels. I make it a point not to write definitively about that which I have little experience. Simply put, I've only heard Phoenix's diesel sounds at shows, and beyond hearing QSI diesel sounds at shows, I've only done one QSI diesel install, and that loco/installation isn't complete yet so I haven't had the chance to properly "tweak" things to the loco's performance. I have no basis upon which to offer any kind of qualitative comparison of the two systems in that arena, so I'm not going to mention it. The best I can offer is that they both sound great at shows. What does that add? 

Bottom line, we all have our own personal needs for what we want out of a sound system, how we "hear" what it does, and how what we hear equates in our minds to what happens on the prototype. Since no one of us can tell what another is actually hearing, we cannot by any means tell someone else what they're hearing is in any way "wrong." It's purely subjective. The reality is that we have a plethora of very high-quality sound systems on the market today that do things we were only dreaming of 20 years ago. They're all very similar on many fronts, and they're all markedly different as well. Which one we use for what situation cannot be dictated by anyone other then ourselves. 

Later, 

K


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, regarding the notches and the Phoenix board. Through the computer software you can adjust the volume for each notch on a diesel engine, and the voltage level at which you enter each notch. 

Ed


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 09 Jan 2012 05:48 PM 
I'm not giving you a hard time, but your statements seem based on a very limited use of the real capabilities of the QSI. 
Funny, considering over the past three or so years, I've become very well versed in the capabilities of the QSI pretty much at your prompting--mostly as a result of your tireless promotion of the QSI's functions which I enjoy using, but also as a result of similar criticisms you've launched at me over that time prompting me to read more just to counter your criticisms. You really should give yourself more credit for inspiring others to dig deeper into the board's capabilities on their own. If there's anything in this discussion that I don't understand, it's the perceived need for such fierce brand loyalty. I don't think anyone in this discussion has remotely come close to poo-pooing QSI, so there's no need to defend it against "the others." Both Phoenix and QSI are top-drawer systems, and to be able to choose between them on features as esoteric as which whistle you like better speaks volumes to their mutual quality. 

Lastly, while changing whistles needs the software, the best way to choose a "sound set" is to select the prime mover first, steam or diesel. 
I sincerely hope you're not presuming to tell me how I should pick _my_ sounds for _my_ locomotives on _my_ railroad. Because if that were the case, I'd have to tell you to go soak your head. I'm sure, however that what you _really_ meant to say was that choosing sounds as you describe works well for you personally, but how I best choose mine for my own needs is entirely up to me. 

...In terms of "autochuff" when the chuff is determined electronically, the QSI is far superior, haveing not only a coarse and fine adjustment, but it actually counts motor rpm.
I've not used Autochuff on the Phoenix (to be honest, I couldn't even tell you how to turn it on, it's such a non-issue for me), but I'm here to tell you QSI's leaves a lot to be desired in terms of accuracy. I've played a lot with it on various steam locos which didn't have reliable triggers, and I've gotten it to work well exactly once. And when I took that sound file and applied it to a QSI board in an identical installation on an identical locomotive, it behaved entirely differently. I also have one whose rate varies relative to the input voltage. (i.e., as the battery drains, the frequency for a given RPM of the motor changes.) Maybe it is better than Phoenix's, but it's a L-O-N-G way from perfect. Give me triggers any day of the week. 

...since you can adjust all the sounds and volumes, and virtually everything on the fly on DCC... 
Fair enough, but I was coming from the perspective of customizing entire sound files, not just adjusting the volumes and their behaviors. (Could have been stated more clearly.) Now, the Titan looks to have multiple sound files all on the board, if I'm understanding things correctly, you can switch sound files (i.e., GE to EMD, etc.) with just reprogramming a CV. If that's the case, I like that. (One could argue it's a long time coming, since other decoders have had that level of functionality--though usually because their libraries were very limited and they didn't offer software-based sound file swapping.) Still, a welcome advance over the old. Besides, if you've got the programming software, why would you use the CVs? Even with the most user-friendly of hand-held controllers, it's still a comparative pain. 

...Now if you meant cadence other than the standard definition of the word, like the "coloring" of the chuff, again I would maintain the QSI is superior, since there are several factors that can affect it, and they are adjustable.
"Color" is a much better word, you're right. Now whether QSI is "superior" to the Phoenix or not, that's very subjective. No doubt you believe it, and no doubt I have a differing opinion. I find with the way I run my trains, I can get greater variation in the chuff from the Phoenix. Its behavior is a bit more erratic than with the QSI, but neither is remotely objectionable. And neither performance "issues" are the result of a lack of understanding of the mechanisms in play. 

By the way, I know you are a steam guy, but you seem to forget diesel sounds on most of your sound posts. 
I don't "forget" diesels. I make it a point not to write definitively about that which I have little experience. Simply put, I've only heard Phoenix's diesel sounds at shows, and beyond hearing QSI diesel sounds at shows, I've only done one QSI diesel install, and that loco/installation isn't complete yet so I haven't had the chance to properly "tweak" things to the loco's performance. I have no basis upon which to offer any kind of qualitative comparison of the two systems in that arena, so I'm not going to mention it. The best I can offer is that they both sound great at shows. What does that add? 

Bottom line, we all have our own personal needs for what we want out of a sound system, how we "hear" what it does, and how what we hear equates in our minds to what happens on the prototype. Since no one of us can tell what another is actually hearing, we cannot by any means tell someone else what they're hearing is in any way "wrong." It's purely subjective. The reality is that we have a plethora of very high-quality sound systems on the market today that do things we were only dreaming of 20 years ago. They're all very similar on many fronts, and they're all markedly different as well. Which one we use for what situation cannot be dictated by anyone other then ourselves. 

Later, 

K Interesting discussion here. I guess I stepped in it when I made my statement to Mike. Hey, it's all good.









I'm not familiar with QSI at all. But I DO have two steamers with the Phoenix system installed. I've had both for over four years and only now have I really started to experiment with the sounds. I ran at the Fairplex SWGRS show. Paul Burch was running my Accucraft #346 C-19 with his new T5000 throttle. After just starting, we noticed that the chuff was actually skipping a beat, almost like the timing was way off. I had never had this kind of problem before...ever! We kept running for a hour or so and then we both went in to the show to talk to Jonathan Bliese. He said that the way an Accucraft loco is set-up, it's almost impossible to have this happen. Well, long story short. It was the way I had set RANDOMIZATION in the "chuff" mode, in the software. Since Paul finally has two steamers to go with his myriad diesels and his pretty knowledgeable with Phoenix and Airwire. He sent me HIS configuration files on the set-up of his two Aristo consolidations. I set the RANDOMIZATION to Paul's settings and the timing is now right on. Very pleased. The point I'm making is that I don't think anyone truly knows just how powerful ANY of these systems can be. You could literally tweak Phoenix or QSI for months and not realize the full potential of either Phoenix or QSI. You know a funny thing though. BOTH of my engines, the Accucraft and a Bachmann Connie are C19's and yet I have the K487 ROM files installed. A K37 yet! I just like the whistle ending sounds (Kevin) and the heavy chuff sound of that particular file.

There's more than enough tweaking available to the average garden railroader in either system, to keep us happy for a very long time! Some like classical and some like jazz. It's all very cool.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin, your ability to write tombs based on a single sentence of mine just flat amazes me. 

Since apparently you did not consider anything I said if it implies that you are wrong, and instead of considering the facts, you brush off my statements by virtue of my "fierce brand loyalty", it's most likely stupid of me to continue to actually bring the real truth out with facts. 

I'll leave it to people to read the manuals and see what the capabilities are. You have garbled up the clear points I was trying to make, and your experience with the autochuff alone shows you are having some kind of problem no one else seems to have. If that simple function is too much, and you are assured you know all about it, then there's no hope of convincing you that it works. 

Have a good day... I'm going go out in my back yard and take a hammer and smash all my QSI units that don't work at all, even though it APPEARS to me that they are chuffing exactly every 90 degrees. 

Since I'm completely wrong on every point again, I'll also check myself into a sanatorium, and rid the earth of another person who does not agree that the Phoenix is superior in every way. 

Greg


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## Jim Francis (Dec 29, 2007)

Stop with the personal attacks! NOW!


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been at a train show, did not monitor yesterday, but here are some comments. 
Lownote stated the Phoenix is monotonous, he has posted this at least 5-6 times over the years, and it is that way in his opinion, because he chooses to use it that way. 
It was also stated that auto is better than manual, so i listed some additional auto features, hence Mr. Murphy's confusion over my points. 
The admitted sample by lownote is huge, one board, a 10 year old design, loaded with 10year old software, a literal eternity in software design. 
My sample base with Phoenix is somewhat larger than lownote's ,more than 500 plus larger. 
It does not matter what the capabilities are of QSI,present or future, they do not reliably deliver product, and have not delivered anything for well over a year. Even when the old decoder was being sold, they did not deliver reliably, far too many backorders and delays. 

In m y humble experience, users - customers- simply will not and do not take the time required to adjust , use, fix or otherwise employ the huge number of adjustments available through DCC/QSI. The do not even use Phoenix software to its full capabilities, and it is far easier to use. 
The customers that do use QSi fully, such as Greg, are by far the rare exception. 
Phoenix can engage drift manually. Phoenix can adjust volumes of sound individually.The statements by Greg in this area re inaccurate. 
Any new features of QSI are a complete unknown, whether easy or hard to use since they do not sell anything to large scalers, and have not done so for a very long time. How long do you wait to enjoy your hobby??Constantly recommending a vaporware product is a disservice to the user and the hobby in general. 
Phoenix has had for over 2 years, a feature that allows by far the best chuff available anywhere, It is called alternate chuff, and has three modes. No steam loco is perfectly square at all valve position settings, and the alternate chuff feature allows 2 additional chuff rhythms to be faded in and out. Each alternate setting can be set to accent or suppress chuffs in specified sequence, can be adjusted for duration, and also adjusted for fade in /out timing sequence. 
\I have never heard anyone talk about this, even mention it or make notation. It is amazingly real, can be set up without learning software or modifying CV's, and can produce a very satisfying result. QSI has nothing like it in the past, and i have seen no notation of this in the future, since the emphasis is on auto chuff 
Excessive complexity to adjust and set up is actually an obstacle for hobby enjoyment, and to get QSI to do all what Greg says can take excessive amounts of time , effort , and learning. If doing it for yourself and for enjoyment, fantastic, have at it, but to get max performance out of QSI software on a commercial basis where in the customer is paying for programming time , well, that is a non starter. 
As indicated above, 99% of users will employ the QSI file as issued, or with only the most minor of changes. When the standard as issued sound files become part of a large enough and qualitative enough library,and they actually deliver in my lifetime, then QSI will be onto something. 
Until then, only the few folks that are willing to spend hobby time on their computer will get the full benefit. 
Jonathan/EMW


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If that simple function is too much, and you are assured you know all about it, then there's no hope of convincing you that it works. 
Quite the contrary. I'd love to be convinced that it _does_ work consistently throughout an entire speed range. I think it's a great solution for locos that lack reliable chuff triggers. Am I "assured I know it all?" I'd sincerely hope not, since I can't get the darned thing to work consistently. I'd really hope there's some bit of tribal sorcery I haven't mastered yet. But all the times I've asked you (and others) about the specific issues I described above, I'm met with "read the book." When I suggest that's not terribly helpful because obviously I _have_ read the book and I'm still not getting consistent results, I get no further input. Lacking someone willing to impart that sacred knowledge to the masses, what other conclusion can I draw but that which I've stated? If the "experts" have nothing to add to the discussion, maybe I _do_ "know it all" or at least have done everything others could suggest because it's as much a complete mystery to them as it is to me. I'd love to think that's not the case--that someone, somewhere has a simple answer to the strange behavior I'm seeing, but until someone steps forward with such advice, I remain "soundly" unconvinced. If you want to make me really happy, prove me wrong. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to finally elicit _productive_ advice to solve these issues. But I've made identical pleas in the past which have gone unanswered, so why should I expect this time to be any different? 

I'll also check myself into a sanatorium, and rid the earth of another person who does not agree that the Phoenix is superior in every way. 
Far be it for me to stop you from checking yourself into a mental institution if you feel it necessary for your well-being. You gotta do what you gotta do. But please don't take such draconian measures solely on my part. I have no preference towards either system. Instead, I'd suggest a tall glass of wine in one hand and a remote control in the other (and in your case, a nice cigar--maybe brandy instead of wine for that "old boy's club" feel.) Sit back, relax, and enjoy a train running around your back yard with whichever flavor of sound system you personally feel meets your specific needs. So long as you're happy with your own choice, what else matters? Trust me, it's far cheaper than therapy.  

Later, 

K


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I have never understood why, in this hobby, preference for one or the other product has to be attacked. There are many reasons to prefer one feature or another. There are few reasons to insult someone because they prefer something different, or to assume that their preference is rooted in ignorance. In this case, the fact that I like to have the "drift/load" feature automated has been taken to mean that I'm insufficiently trained in the features of the Phoenix card. I know perfectly well that I could trigger these effects myself with a Phoenix card, but I don't want to. The fact that it WILL NOT DO what I want it to do is taken as a fault of mine, not of the product. It's further assumed that I haven't investigated the features of the QSI card or the Phoenix card in depth. Annoying, and wrong.



The culture of this hobby is very strange, and more and more I find that I want little to do with most of the people involved in it. 

I've gotten a great deal of help from this forum, for which I'm extremely grateful and I've tried to give that help back in terms of my own experiences. So I'll try again. 

*On our railroad, we like to have the train run while we chat with the neighbors who drop by. In that context, the automated response to load that the QSI cards produce is really delightful. It avoids the monotony that results when you do not choose to try to simulate these effects yourself as with a Phoenix soundcard, because you are enjoying a beautiful day and chatting with friends and neighbors. If you do not enjoy chatting with neighbors, or perhaps do not have friends, this monotony will not trouble you, because you can concentrate on triggering the appropriate sounds at the exactly appropriate moment.*

And just let me add that the delay in the appearance of the QSI cards has been inexcusable, and I'm extremely annoyed about it. I've been looking at alternatives, but they do not include Phoenix, for the reasons mentioned, and I have found the claims for what the new Titan can do to be absurdly overhyped.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 01 May 2011 10:34 PM 
Posted By Loco Lee on 16 Apr 2011 09:04 AM 
... There are companies who are investing millions into this, and for good reason.;;;



Millions of what...cause it sure can't be dollars. There's no ROI that would warrant that that I can see. 
OK...so way back when I made the remark above and folks said "oh no, it does cost millions". Well, I just looked at one of my QSI Industries board for my K27 and what I found was ONE chip made by QSI...the microchip that is the heart of the decoder...and a bunch of regular PC board chips...they look like amplifiers, capacitors, and resistors...no other "chips". If I understand the manufacturing process for the LS boards, QSI Industries places an HO QSI decoder chip on a board they designed to handle the higher voltage and power requirements of LS engines. That doesn't sound anything like the effort to make the actual chip that's produced for the other scales....least to me. As I understand it, QSI, the chip maker, and QSI Industries, the LS board maker, are separate, unaffiliated companies.


So, where is the difficulty? Or is it that the new QSI chip isn't available? What am I not seeing? The market for a new power and sound chip seems solid...given that they support multiple scales and are DCC based.


I, like Jonathan, am pretty disappointed when products continually miss their release dates...not by a little, but by a LOT. I could say the same thing about the Aristo unit that was supposed to come out with built in sound. More and more it's seeming to me that the companies competing for the surge in electronics to put into model trains are pushing vaporware to get folks to "pause". That's just NOT good for our hobby...especially when we have the whole industry doing it.


Making it worse...they appear to be rationing their existing products...not even producing them. Why can't they just keep selling the old versions till the new one comes out? Makes no sense to me...and it pisses me off.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Mike,

I am in technology as a manufacturer (SAN, Virtualization, Backup/Restore) and trust me there are no 100% solid, right answers. While I do agree that it is very frustrating from an end users perspective on the constant delays let me explain some of the reasons why they do get delayed or limited production, etc.
[*]Scaling larger is not always as easy as "adding a few components". Many things can impact the overal scaling of something. Why do you think there are not 2" wide LED's? Most LED bulbs are made up of many small ones.[*]Putting early notice out is quite often done to "save" market share (stop others from buying competitive products), although not always. While we don't like it, it is a fact of life.[*]Sometimes we all get excited to release a new offering only to find out when you get enough testers that the final has "bugs" and/or features that you really want in them when you release the offering and this causes delays.[*]You can run into legal issues when you announce the initial offerings (Phoenix legal issues for example) that you need to "work around" before you actually finalize the product.[*]Mass production can be an issue expecially if you have high infant mortality on the initial runs or the production facilities are limited.[/list] Now some things that manufacturers should NOT do are:
[*]Stop producing the older versions until the new is in full swing (this can be limited by production contracts however - example: you must take orders for 50 of your boards per month or we will stop production). You can also run into issues if you only have one main production line and it needs to be "retooled" in order to produce the new boards. In that case the manufacturer should produce enough of the old product to hold itself out until the new is ready.[*]Limit the number of these "false starts" to two at maximum.[/list] 

I hope this helps.


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, for someone on the supply side of this equation, and as one who is expected by the customer base to know things, it goes far beyond disappointment in delayed delivery. It can cause actual hardship. There are far more casual users, and casual visitors/ readers of this forum, than those that are members or read every word. 
My view is never that of a single user, but always that of a customer base, sometimes many folks, sometimes few When someone like Greg endlessly hypes a product, folks tend to believe it.When a newbie asks about control, or sound, or whatever, and forum members jump in with "Buy QSI", that just screws things up. It is on the internet, it must be true kind of thinking. So they call or email to order it or learn about costs etc. When they are then told, none available, none delivered, no cost info , and so on, I either look like an idiot or they assume I have an agenda and am trying to sell something else. 
For us , customer service and tech support are job one. Nothing is easier than providing exactly what the buyer wants, and I would certainly be happy to take and ship the order. Offering an alternative that is actually available is not viewed favorably in many cases, for reasons just cited. 
In the same manner, no one is telling lownote his use or opinion is wrong. He certainly has every right to do what he wishes, how he wishes. But there is a very large difference in the statement" Phoenix is monotonous" or " it cannot do this or that " or some other quote , than from saying "The way I use it does not work for me," or " I prefer automation because of personal use patters and situations". When A customer that is new tells me that he read on MLS that the Phoenix chuff is poor and lacks variety, then that becomes a problem. The challenge is to blanket statements that are inaccurate, not to the actual person or user ,and their personal choices. 
I really have no dog in this--discussion... 
I did cease sponsorship of this forum after a great many years because of issues with the culture here, among other reasons, much as lownote commented, and do not post much here anymore either. I have already said far too much in this thread, so will return to visiting once in a great while and reading what all the experts have to say. 
Enjoy the hobby... 
Jonathan/EMW


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I too have no dog in this debate. However I do sell Phoenix sound systems here in Australia and have had one QSI through my workshop. 

Mike Reilley. Your comment that there should be no real hold ups with the Large Scale (LS) Titan as the chip is the same as the H0 one, may not be correct. 
As I understand it, the LS Titan has features not available in the smaller version. Such as externally triggerable sound functions. These differences alone may make the use of the same IC not possible. I don't know the specifics but, The same analogy does hold true in other areas of business. You have to have a decent potential market. Plus, you have to have a decent sized production run to spread the costs over. In todays financial climate I doubt there are too many DCC manufacturers willing to take the plunge in what is an ever shrinking market. My guess would be, that is why there is still no sign of the integrated REVOLUTION/SOUND ESC. 
Then again the threat of the REVOLUTION/SOUND ESC as a competitor to QSI may also be a reason for the late appearance of the new QSI. Who knows? 

The QSI fans seem to be citing the features of the old (no longer available) QSI, and pushing what the "possible" features of the new (as yet unavailable) QSI will be. 
How can any fair comparison of a non existent QSI product be made with Phoenix, which does exist?


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By K27_463 on 10 Jan 2012 03:06 PM 
Mike, for someone on the supply side of this equation, and as one who is expected by the customer base to know things, it goes far beyond disappointment in delayed delivery. It can cause actual hardship. There are far more casual users, and casual visitors/ readers of this forum, than those that are members or read every word. 
My view is never that of a single user, but always that of a customer base, sometimes many folks, sometimes few When someone like Greg endlessly hypes a product, folks tend to believe it.When a newbie asks about control, or sound, or whatever, and forum members jump in with "Buy QSI", that just screws things up. It is on the internet, it must be true kind of thinking. So they call or email to order it or learn about costs etc. When they are then told, none available, none delivered, no cost info , and so on, I either look like an idiot or they assume I have an agenda and am trying to sell something else. 
For us , customer service and tech support are job one. Nothing is easier than providing exactly what the buyer wants, and I would certainly be happy to take and ship the order. Offering an alternative that is actually available is not viewed favorably in many cases, for reasons just cited. 
In the same manner, no one is telling lownote his use or opinion is wrong. He certainly has every right to do what he wishes, how he wishes. But there is a very large difference in the statement" Phoenix is monotonous" or " it cannot do this or that " or some other quote , than from saying "The way I use it does not work for me," or " I prefer automation because of personal use patters and situations". When A customer that is new tells me that he read on MLS that the Phoenix chuff is poor and lacks variety, then that becomes a problem. The challenge is to blanket statements that are inaccurate, not to the actual person or user ,and their personal choices. 
I really have no dog in this--discussion... 
I did cease sponsorship of this forum after a great many years because of issues with the culture here, among other reasons, much as lownote commented, and do not post much here anymore either. I have already said far too much in this thread, so will return to visiting once in a great while and reading what all the experts have to say. 
Enjoy the hobby... 
Jonathan/EMW I have been a customer of Jonathan's for five years, mainly on the recommendation of Paul Burch (MLS) and I had no knowledge what so ever regarding wireless RC and sound. Jonathan and I discussed what I wanted in my loco's and how best to achieve it. After a few months of pondering, I went with Phoenix and Airwire. Because I have had no problems with my two installations (except for me not understanding exactly how everything works), Jonathan has ALWAYS been forthright with me on what he says AND does. It is really a terrific loss to this forum to lose a person like Jonathan, with the vast experience he brings to this group. I, too, also believe that a very combative and confronting culture has begun to permeate this forum for the past few years. I know many who have left this site and moved on, for the same reason. It's really a sorry thing to have happen.








AND I have been a paying member (First Class) for at least ten years.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Jeez, this went a whole different way. 

Stop hyjacking my thread!!!  

As of today QSI is still saying Jan/Feb as shipping date. We shall see.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Makes me want to run out and buy one!









I appreciate your input Jonathan. This forum does get pretty testy at times. I probably don't help that any myself. But within all of the "battles", usually lies some good information. Have you guys ever been to forums on other topics? They just flat tell you to go to He** for asking any kind of a question that has been answered at least once in the past 10 years. It is your problem to find it! (I guess this is derailing the topic again .... just consider it a comment).

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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By K27_463 on 10 Jan 2012 03:06 PM 
Mike, for someone on the supply side of this equation, and as one who is expected by the customer base to know things, it goes far beyond disappointment in delayed delivery. It can cause actual hardship. There are far more casual users, and casual visitors/ readers of this forum, than those that are members or read every word. 
My view is never that of a single user, but always that of a customer base, sometimes many folks, sometimes few When someone like Greg endlessly hypes a product, folks tend to believe it.When a newbie asks about control, or sound, or whatever, and forum members jump in with "Buy QSI", that just screws things up. It is on the internet, it must be true kind of thinking. So they call or email to order it or learn about costs etc. When they are then told, none available, none delivered, no cost info , and so on, I either look like an idiot or they assume I have an agenda and am trying to sell something else. 
For us , customer service and tech support are job one. Nothing is easier than providing exactly what the buyer wants, and I would certainly be happy to take and ship the order. Offering an alternative that is actually available is not viewed favorably in many cases, for reasons just cited. 
In the same manner, no one is telling lownote his use or opinion is wrong. He certainly has every right to do what he wishes, how he wishes. But there is a very large difference in the statement" Phoenix is monotonous" or " it cannot do this or that " or some other quote , than from saying "The way I use it does not work for me," or " I prefer automation because of personal use patters and situations". When A customer that is new tells me that he read on MLS that the Phoenix chuff is poor and lacks variety, then that becomes a problem. The challenge is to blanket statements that are inaccurate, not to the actual person or user ,and their personal choices. 
I really have no dog in this--discussion... 
I did cease sponsorship of this forum after a great many years because of issues with the culture here, among other reasons, much as lownote commented, and do not post much here anymore either. I have already said far too much in this thread, so will return to visiting once in a great while and reading what all the experts have to say. 
Enjoy the hobby... 
Jonathan/EMW 
I hear ya Jonathan! I understand the hardship part...from my point of view (you haven't got the system I want)...and your point (tired of telling folks that want a QSI that you can't get them anymore)...and that you don't know when they'll actually be released. I've learned to NOT chase technology...unlike some folks that want to chase technology. I have a 5 year old cell phone. My DVD player is still a regular one. My truck is now 11 years old. Heck, most of my GRR gear is way over 6 years old. What I want is something I know will satisfy me...and frankly, most of the new technology (to me) is overkill. I know I don't need stereo sound (woof)...I'd just like another QSI device...even with their ridiculously expensive G-wire addition. 

Elsewise...I'm gonna sell all the RC stuff I have (brand new Airwire and QSI stuff) and invest in the Aristo system...if IT'S available. Price point is my interest....not technology.


See ya at the next show...


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

OK, tomorrow is February well past the 8 weeks promised in October. So now whats the DATE...............................................Jack


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Actually, I did think they said the end of February, but who's keeping track! LOL


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I posted this elsewhere--according to the latest news on the Yahoo QSI forum, Tony says "four weeks," which would be the end of February. Is it true? I have no idea.


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

LOL, I'm not getting my hopes up. Tony said four weeks in 2009. I just want to hear that the boards are shipping!


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Well, QSI has 13 days till the end of February with the bonus leap day of the 29th. Will they make it (if I count correctly since annouced) or have to do the 9th







date expected change. Jack


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

They will arrive on Febr. 30th prolly!! Regal


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

QSI, 6 days left.............till another date??????


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

If they don't make it this time, after all the posts and hype, I think a lot of folks will just say forget it and go with what ever is available now no matter what the bells and whistles are. After all we're not getting any younger.
Fingers crossed

Steve


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not optimistic, but I hope they appear soon. About ten days ago I heard from my favorite DCC retailer that QSI was "giving them the runaround" about when the large scale titans would be out. 

In the meantime, I've been extremely impressed by ESU's Loksound line. Excellent sound quality, better low speed performance than the older QSIs (none of that chattering at slow speed). The sounds are really well recorded and well reproduced, but they are more "generic" than what QSI offers. For example, QSI has actual prototype whistles, ESU mostly doesn't. The ESU Loksound 3.5 is more expensive than the old QSI cards, but it comes with screw terminals and it has a five lighting/accessory functions in addition to the headlight/reverse light, which QSI never got around to offering.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

QSI.............tick tick tick tick .............15hrs and counting till the new date????????????????


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Just don't hold yer breath!! Regal


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

OH well,,,,,,,just got an email from QSI and guess what, it will be another 4-6 weeks till their release. So lets start counting again Till April 12 only 43 days and counting.......LOL


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

That's disappointing, but not surprising. I was hoping to hear a number less than four weeks since that's what they always say. If 4 weeks = infinity, then 2 weeks = infinity / 2, right? Not that that's much better, but it would at least make it sound like they are making progress on this. Better yet, they could tell us specifically what is going on and not pretend to have any concept of time.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

what exactly did the message say?

It's remarkable--strangest way of doing business--or rather, not doing business--I've ever seen.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Any update on a release date for the Aristo Titan. Thanks Jack 

REPLY "About 4-6 weeks"


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Tony at Tony's Trains told me six weeks about a week ago via email.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's been the same reply for over a year

Maybe we should introduce it as a phrase: "a qsi" equals "four to six weeks," as in "baseball season starts in a qsi," or the "election will be over in a qsi."


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

It's a shame really. But it might not be all that bad. My backyard grading work begins this month and hope to have trains running late spring, early summer. I will have to choose another system if the Titan is not available in a "qsi".And by then, they will have lost another customer permanently.


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I just sent an email and asked what the specific status was (e.g. Is the engineering done? Is the board layout done? Has it been sent to manufacturing yet?) and Tony replied "Prototypes in production.". I'm not exactly sure what that means though. Anyone have any idea?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By benshell on 01 Mar 2012 04:16 PM 
I just sent an email and asked what the specific status was (e.g. Is the engineering done? Is the board layout done? Has it been sent to manufacturing yet?) and Tony replied "Prototypes in production.". I'm not exactly sure what that means though. Anyone have any idea? 

Probably "4 to 6 weeks."


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Well having been in the business for a few years (40+), that could mean just about anything, but here is my guess ....

"Prototypes in production" means we have done enough bread boarding with hardware and written enough software that we now have enough confidence to commit some money to a PCB layout. Once we get that PCB, we will test it. Undoubtedly, we will find something wrong with it. If it is minor, we will patch it up with some minor rework and sell it anyway. We will also find a bunch of bugs in our software, which may or may not be easily fixed. In summary, if all goes really well, we will order more boards for the production run, and start selling product. But most likely, it means another revision to the PCB layout, another round of testing, and release of the initial product. That product will be sold, and the customer will find all of the problems that we didn't, and then we will try to fix them on the next go around. 

The products that I develop are simple enough that I usually get it right on the first try. I am just guessing (again) that the QSI product with sound is complex enough that it can have many potential problems. (This post is NOT trying to put down QSI, nor is it to promote my own products. Just trying the answer the question that was asked.)

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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 01 Mar 2012 04:41 PM 
Well having been in the business for a few years (40+), that could mean just about anything, but here is my guess ....

"Prototypes in production" means we have done enough bread boarding with hardware and written enough software that we now have enough confidence to commit some money to a PCB layout. Once we get that PCB, we will test it. Undoubtedly, we will find something wrong with it. If it is minor, we will patch it up with some minor rework and sell it anyway. We will also find a bunch of bugs in our software, which may or may not be easily fixed. In summary, if all goes really well, we will order more boards for the production run, and start selling product. But most likely, it means another revision to the PCB layout, another round of testing, and release of the initial product. That product will be sold, and the customer will find all of the problems that we didn't, and then we will try to fix them on the next go around. 

.... 
That sounds like a pretty good synopsis of the real world.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I subscribe to a number of news groups that have also been discussing the non appearance of the LS Titan as well as the already released small scale version. 
Seems like there are a few slow speed performance issues with the small scale version that were also (allegedly) manifest in the earlier LS version. 
Given that the LS version is supposedly going to have some external sound triggering, hopefully including mechanical chuff and diesel roar timing, I can understand why it is taking so long to get right. 
With those features it should enable QSI to sell the Titan as an affordable stand alone after market sound system, not just a combined DCC decoder/sound device. 

As to "Prototypes in production". Del said it pretty well.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Del I like your answer and I sppreciate your expertise on the subject. 

For me QSI just lost out on another one. I just couldnt wait any longer for the Titan and bought yet another Phoenix PB8.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

This is really getting ridiculous I have at least 13 engines just sitting there now because of this crap.

I understand that delivering a new product sometimes has hiccups and issues and delays.

BUT why in gods name would you not continue to produce the Magnum card??????????? 
There are no extra costs, the product is great and you would not be throwing away your market share
I would have gladly bought those in a heartbeat. It makes no not to have a product to sell for TWO YEARS!!

If anyone has any qsi boards they would like to sell please drop me a line and we will work out a deal for any and all you have to sell.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Already ahead of you, buying up all the QSI from disgruntled users... bought 6 recently... shh! don't let anyone know that you just have to keep your ears open and you can buy all you want. 

Viva La Revolution! 

(just be sure you get them quick, before all the people switching to the Revolution wise up!) 

hahahahaha! 

Greg


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

By the time the Titan comes out Phoenix will have a new, better sound card to compete with QSI. I can understand wanting a new and improved product which is even better than the old product and I can understand not wanting an inventory of old products in stock. I have been in G scale for almost 10 years and I have never seen a product come out on schedule or budget. QSI should have predicted this and made allowances for it. I am installing Revolution receivers in all of my other locos and when that is done I am pulling my QSI equipment and putting it up on ebay!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09 Mar 2012 09:10 AM 
Already ahead of you, buying up all the QSI from disgruntled users... bought 6 recently... shh! don't let anyone know that you just have to keep your ears open and you can buy all you want. 

Viva La Revolution! 

(just be sure you get them quick, before all the people switching to the Revolution wise up!) 

hahahahaha! 

Greg 

Sure could use a few if you have any to spare greg, pretty please









Ron


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Greg, 
You just gave away the secret! Now what am I going to do!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Like others, I got tired of waiting and ordered a competitor's board to replace the belly-up QSI in one of my locos, as well as for another loco I'm working on now. I really didn't want to go _two_ seasons without EBT #3 turning a wheel. Wish I had the new board to choose, but "four to six weeks" late and $160 short. 

 I suspect, however, that many of us will likely have short memories once the new board is out, and will readily add it back to our range of boards we regularly use. I think that's what QSI is banking on at the moment. Consider the fact that this thread exists--it shows that there's a strong demand for a product of that quality, and we're anxious to use it. Even those of us who have gone on to other products in the interim are still following along, keeping an eye on when our "old friend" will return. Unfortunate delay? Sure. Costing them in the short term? Most likely. Long term, I think it's going to be a blip on the radar screen. 

What's going to be more interesting to watch is how the market reacts to some of the developments introduced on this board. How many modelers are _really_ going to use 2 speakers in their locos? It's hard to judge by the small-scale response given that space is such a higher premium. But for large scale where space is certainly more available (in most locos), how many are going to take the time to use a second speaker and then map sounds accordingly? Heck, how many modelers take the time to really customize their sounds beyond the factory defaults even now? It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out 3 to 5 years down the line... 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, some people will use all the options, some will only use a few. What's nice about having a wide range of options available (as in the ESU, Massoth, and Zimo also) is you can pick which ones are important to you. 

Putting in a second speaker will be something I will definitely do, the woofer in the tender and a tweeter in the smokebox. I'm looking forwards to having both killer bass and the chuffs coming out of the stack. 

The QSI software is one of the easiest to use to configure sounds, so I think many people will have fun with it. 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The long delay, and the endless "4-6 weeks" BS, have kind of soured me on QSI. The old decoders were very good: it's insane that they stopped them before the new one was ready. I've found some viable alternatives and that's just sales lost for QSI. 

The most amazing thing is that the new titans are still using the old sounds, for the most part. The sound database hasn't been updated to take advantage of the Titan's capacities. So as far as I can tell, the new Titans in Ho sound almost exactly like the old Quantums. When will the sound database be updated? Answer seems to be very much like "4-6 weeks."

But if the new decoders are as good as they say, or even just as good as the old ones, they'll win market share back. And I'll go back to using them. The stereo sound feature could be really excellent in large scale and I'll definitely want to try it out.

I've been following reactions to the HO titans, and it mostly seems to be "meh," largely because they sound like the old decoders (see above) 


If it's as good as they claim it will do well


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

I think Kevin is right. We'll all forget about this '4-6 week' (4-6 YEAR) fiasco....... eventually. I must admit that QSI's sound library, affordable price, and their ability to trigger sounds via reed switches (yes, reed switches. No fancy controller for me) has kept me on the line for over a year. But how much longer do you gamble and wait? Will it really be another 4-6 weeks or 4-6 months, or another year? QSI hasn't been very honest so far and probably hasn't made a lot of new friends by crying 'wolf' for the last year. At some point you just can't wait and wonder anymore. Naturally, they'll release the new Titan the day after I invest in a simpler sound card like the Dallee (no offense to Dallee, of course). Just my thought. 


-Kevin.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I agree with you kevin. I have no plans to cancel my backorder with Tony's. And when the board eventually comes I will use it and probably enjoy the heck out of it. But, for now it is frustrating.


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Okay guys the wait is almost over. I've been working almost nonstop for the last three days to adjust the levels of the new sound files for the QSI decoders. Currently I'm working on the EMD 567 like was used in the old F7's and early model switchers, as well as the EMD 645 E3, which is EMD's Turbo charged motor like they used in the GP 40, SD 40 and others. There'll also be a GE FDL 16 that I recorded several months back. It has a pretty nice bark and I'm sure it will sound good in most any locomotive. In addition to those sounds, they will also be releasing the sound set for the RDC. There will be plenty more to come, but these will be the first ones out of the gate. Also, keep in mind that these are not the final sound files, and they will be keep being upgraded as time goes on. 

Just to be clear, I have nothing to do with when Tony will release the decoders, nor do I have any influence with him to speed that process along. Just like most all of you, I too have been waiting for the new QSI G scale decoders. At present, I have well over 30 locomotives awaiting new sound decoders. I too am anxious to see these decoders hit the street, and I'll be more than happy, to help any of you guys get your decoders tweaked, so they sound perfect for your locomotive. 

Loco Lee


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

I was wondering if anyone has used one of the HO versions (they are rated to two amps) in one of their engines to see how they run?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Good news lee, thanks for posting, and for the offer of help when they finally come out


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

You could use the HO, but you wouldn't be able to pull hardly anything. I did it in one of my switchers once, but it didn't last too long. Once I get done with the sound files, I'll let yopu guys know where to get them. I'll also be putting together some video's on how to program the new Titans. I'm very happy with the ones that I have, and the sound is better than I'd hoped for. The 645 sound set will let you go from any notch to any notch, without stair steping. I.E. you can go from notch one to notch 8, and rev straight to that notch, and back down again. It's sooo cool that it acts just like a real one. I love it, and I'm sure you will too. I'm going to try to take some video tomorrow, and let you guys hear what they sound like in a G Scale. I think you'll like what they did with the decoder, and the sounds. It's not perfect yet, but it's getting there. 

Loco Lee


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Well QSI has responded on thier website with some updated information and details of options but no relaese dates.


link http://www.qsisolutions.com/news/12/titan-large-scale-031812.html


Steve


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, because of the endless debate between Stan and I, there are 2 different versions, one Aristo, one Bachmann..... ha ha... 

The extra lighting capability one will be fun. If you have ever read the QSI manual, there are TONS of different things you can do with lighting, it's pretty amazing. 

Greg


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

To bad. I got tired of the wait and bought all Revolution stuff to install!


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

OK Guys, Here is a link to a QSI Titan that I've been working with. You can hear the engine change as I have to change the notch settings. I'll try to have the G Scale posted before Monday. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywOCDQ_EUeU&list=UU1tCGhDuAXuAjmDz4u0PZIQ&index=1&feature=plcp 

Loco Lee


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Wouldn't it be rather simple to use an HO - or even N scale decoder by using it to control a circuit using a power transistor to handle the voltage to the motor, and wiring the lights, etc directly to the decoder? 

I believe the old MRC decoders did just that... 

Robert


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

You Could. However, there would be no BEMF, and I also think it would create trouble for the PID's. The fact of no BEMF would be the main problem that you would run into. It can't be that much longer untill Tony releases the G Scale decoders. From what I've heard, All of the Engneering work is done. 

Lee


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I wonder if this topic will hit 20,000 views before the decoders come out? 

Robert


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Loco lee 
What did you use to record the sound and video?


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Just a Cheap Go Pro Video Camera. The mic leaves allot to be desired. 

Lee


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Posted By rdamurphy on 21 Mar 2012 06:48 PM 
I wonder if this topic will hit 20,000 views before the decoders come out? 

Robert


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Well the specs and features sure look good. But they've been 4-6 weeks away since November of 2010. I'm not holding my breath.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

On a positive note (since I'm finished with complaining, will not change the situation) 

I was talking with Lee, asking about the differences in the sound files (there are 3 different "resolutions") and also where you can change some of the "new" settings. 

You can see these settings in the current version of the Q2CVmanager (not the sound download program)... 

You don't need to have a programmer or a Titan to see this... 

Run the q2cvmanager, then select file...new (to create a new file)... a window will pop up making you select diesel, electric, steam etc. 

Pick what type you want, but pick one from the bottom of the list you have (so you get the titan stuff) 

now close the "test cab" and the window you are left with has a bunch of tabs... try the "feature config" one to see some of the really fun things you can do. 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Well there are now pictures of the large scale card posted at the QSI website:

http://qsisolutions.com/news/12/titan-large-scale-031812.html


Maybe it really is getting close to release.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Got a call today from Tony P. 

Got some more information, not all that I can share, but yes, getting close, and the USAT version has some more "horsepower" behind it (the specialized outputs for the lighting circuits, matching the factory switches, etc.) 

We went over the testing I will be doing. I'll also be working with the trigger interfaces, and will arrange to get loans of some of the more common R/C systems to prove out the triggers... Thinking now on talking to Del, Tony, Rick on their systems, and also give Scott a call for the Revo, since I returned my evaluation units. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
I will be delighted to lend you an RCS system to check it out with the triggers. 

The way I read the options it seems it might be useable as a stand alone sound to compete with Phoenix. 
One question though. Will this new version be able to read a PWM motor output?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And since you have consistently asked about this feature, I will give priority to testing with your system. 

Yes, the triggers are existing to allow the application, and honestly, give people an alternative to only Phoenix for quality sound with trigger inputs. 

I'm not 100% sure on how the PWM will be interpreted. It might require one of the filters like Aristo makes, a simple 2 pole LC filter... This usually depends on the PWM frequency. Right now, there is not a separate "speed" input. 

I'll give you a heads up as soon as I know when I will be getting the first prototype to test. I'll email you my home address now... 

(is your email still through optusnet?) 


Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the info Greg. 

To contact me it is best to use the RCS addresses. 
[email protected] or [email protected]


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey! I was right: 20022 views and counting... 

Robert


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

So here we are, almost out of April.

Any word on production?

Also Im wondering about the smoke unit interface. I'd like to set up a chuff synchronised smoke unit. What smoke units will work what voltages are available, etc etc. Is there any detailed word? 
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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Look for reusing an Aristo unit or buying the "dumb" one from Train-Li. 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a couple aristo units but have had all the problems you can have with those. Is the Train-Li unit significantly better?


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

There are currently several good large scale options to the Titan. 
What is the big attraction for QSI? We don't even know what market price will be? 

Alan


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm well aware of the other options out there--I've got four ESU cards, for example.

They are all significantly more expensive than the old QSI cards--ESU is the cheapest, Zimo is next, and Massoth is the most expensive. They have less extensive sound files, and less specifically American prototypes. For example, QSI has PRR specific whistles, which appeals to me for PRR models. The old cards were an excellent product at an excellent price. 
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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

Yea your are right, QSI does have an extensive sound library. I am happy with ESU sounds for now.

Alan 
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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

The question that I have with the Aristo Titan is: 
What are the 7 pins on the 10 pin connector useage?[/b]

The only new Aristo loco that I know with etch/solder pads for the 
10 pin connector is the 2-8-0.[/b].......(other than long ago the RS-3 board).....[/b]
Ray[/b]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

more lighting outputs and some other stuff... 

Greg


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg[/b]
But for something that has been comming 'just around the corner',







[/b]
it is the lack of ANY details from VT (or NJ) that makes me wonder.







[/b]

So much so that I am revisiting the QSI Aristo board with my scope and the 383 page DCC manual.[/b]
Now all I need is a steady hand on the iron and some 30 gauge wire.....DANG SMD stuff.[/b]
Ray[/b]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's a lot better to reveal details when they are solid. 

There's also a lot of competition in the DCC market... 

And after promises broken in release date, why would releasing details that could change be smart? 

Just another opportunity to get hammered in the market where everyone is waiting already and feeds threads like this? 

(of course if this was an Aristo product, we'd all be labeled "haters") 

Greg


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## Todd (Mar 23, 2008)

I think this thread seems more like "jilted lovers" than "haters". I've been waiting for over 2 years now. Just can't seems to move on LOL.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Well here we are, halfway through May. Anybody have any updates? Tony's Trains says "availability May 2012."


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, I am told I will receive a prototype for testing in a couple of days. 

The hardware design is completed as far as I can tell. 

Down to some tweaks in firmware, now to beta testing. 

I will announce as soon as I have the unit physically in my hands. 

Regards, Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I guess you could call me a "jilted lover" HA HA. I'm looking forward to when I finally get my QSI Titan. Until then i have been "cheating" on QSI with Phoenix.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Also, thanks for the "inside" info Greg. It at least gives me a tidbit of knowledge.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Lee Wheelbarger just said, on the QSI Yahoo group, that the large scale titans will be available "in a few weeks. We are working on the sound files now."


sigh


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

lownote lee wheelbarger is "loco lee" on here!! I believe. Regal


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you guys familiar with the expression, "...and the farmer took another load away..."?  

Keith


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## keitht (Jan 28, 2010)

Does anyone believe that the Titan G Scale card will EVER appear?
Even if it does with this length of gestation I have no intention of being one of the first gullible guinea pigs.

What a way to run a railway!!!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm pretty confident about Greg;'s opinion. He hasn't shared everything he's learned, but he thinks its very close to being out. 

I'm guessing mid-August

And yes, it's been completely ridiculous


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I had a personal call from Tony P. last week about another issue. He told me the titan's were shipping out that week, so I guess the long waited arrival for a lot of you is finally here! Regal


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The goal to ship was last week. I believe some have shipped. 

I'm real happy with mine. 

Here is one in a new Dash 9 graciously loaned to my by Scott Polk. Motor control problems solved, the loco below is running with BRMF on... I can set the start speed even slower CV2 is 6 here... will move down to about CV2 = 2.

This sound file is the new Dash 8 one, not on the site quite yet.


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## keitht (Jan 28, 2010)

Thanks for the post Greg.
Yes the sound is impressive - and I am not much of a diesel fan - however, here again we have this sound file "not on the site quite yet"!!! 
Sorry, I do not wish to be cynical in the past I have been v impressed with others QSI cards but the litany of 'just around the corner' is never ending. 
Odd that if the cards have shipped nobody has posted any steam or other sounds.........


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There are a number of Titan sound files on the site already, but it's a chicken and the egg thing, needed the hardware to "tune" the sound files somewhat. There's a lot of control over the sound and getting the volume levels right for the "stock" recordings is what I think they are doing. There's also fine tuning of the chuff going on as I understand it. 

The Titan has been out in HO scale for some time, but there's extra stuff in the G scale unit, and there's been firmware updates adding features all along. 

We've all been waiting for them for some time, but there's very few products in G scale that don't have a long gestation time. 

Greg


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, you're absolutely correct. In any scale, in the modelling world, 2 years between announcement and release isn't unusual. In fact, in the 80's and the 90's, it was the norm. Especially in HO and N scale... 

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was going over some timelines between announcement of the intention to build a loco and when they came out, many were 5-7 years... 

Many of us think that QSI could have continued production on the old units to not have so much of a gap in availability, but there were reasons, and I understand them. 

Greg


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm also waiting on one; got an e-mail from Tony a few weeks ago regarding a replacement for a QSI Large-Scale decoder I had in for warranty repair / replacement, giving me the option to upgrade to the latest version of the Titan for an additional $50. Called him the very next day & told him I wanted to go for the newer decoder, hoping the motor control transistors are heavier-duty







than the older decoder (fried







in my Bachmann Mallet!). Checked out the Mallet's motor current on straight DC power a couple of months back to make sure the loco wasn't the culprit, intentionally used an old Simpson 260 analog VOM rather than a modern DVM to measure the current consumption (the idea being that it's far easier to view a sudden "spike" in current on a sensitive conventional analog meter needle







). Running a typical "tonnage" train for my 3% - graded mainline (7-car consist of Bachmann Spectrum & Accucraft 1:20.3 scale cars), the Mallet drew 4.5 Amps upgrade & 3.5 amps downgrade; the only current spikes I noted were *downward *







rather than upward, showing a couple of rail joints I have to re-do on 1 of my passing sidings (the "downward" spikes showed rail joints which were exhibiting signs of *high *resistance limiting current draw; I've already re-done 1/2 the rail joints on that siding, which showed definite improvement







). Hope the new decoder gets here soon







so I can return the Mallet to *"revenue service". *







Tom


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The output transistors are indeed heavier duty. If you are drawing that much current all the time, you might want to go to the heavy duty one, that will handle even more amps, like 10 or 12... the "normal" one is good for 6 I believe, but it's all about cooling too... no heat sink... I assume you have seen the pictures on the site. 

Greg


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I might have a Titan in the mail from Tony. I wish I could be more confident of this though. I have two decoders on order (one for Aristo-Craft, and another with screw terminals). Last week he billed for for ONE of them, and gave me a USPS tracking number! I asked which one he shipped, and why it wasn't both, and he didn't respond. Also, the tracking number still says "Electronic Shipping Info Received" on July 27th. So did it even ship? LOL, I guess I'll know in a few days.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The shipment was delayed... one of the Bachmann socket variations had a problem (why the heck copy the Aristo socket and then change the pinouts? jeeze) 

Even though you might have ordered an Aristo version, TTX decided to do the mod on all the decoders, so in case you used it on a Bachmann later it would be fine. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 30 Jul 2012 04:57 PM 
The shipment was delayed... one of the Bachmann socket variations had a problem (why the heck copy the Aristo socket and then change the pinouts? jeeze) 

SNIP
Greg 

Because as I understand it Aristo stuffed up the original DigiTrax designed socket pin layout and Bachmann corrected their mistake.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's been delayed? Shocking. I never would have expected that.

Meanwhile on the QSI yahoo group LocoLee is claiming new features that will "completely revolutionize model railroading." He posted a video showing these incredible new features, except the video has sound but no image. The longer it's delayed the more incredible it seems to get.

Delayed how long? Last week I predicted mid August, but this does not sound like a trivial change


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Simple trivial change, the decoder is designed to be able to decouple the pins from the interface for this kind of thing, has jumpers to connect the pins. Screw terminals are always connected. 

Tony, really wrong thinking on the socket. 

Digitrax and even Aristo had the simple 12 pin connection. I do believe that the motor leads were swapped in the Aristo implementation. But then Aristo made thousands of locos to that interface, which BECAME the standard, whether or not it exactly matched some proposal long ago is moot. 

Then Bachmann comes out and changes the Aristo one... with lame claims that they got it wrong. Well 40,000 locomotives produced with the only standard that exists is not wrong, it is the de facto standard. 

Then Botchmann comes out with more changes... this is just arrogance on Bachmanns part masked in attempting to drive a better standard. They could have left the existing 12 pins alone and done virtually anything with the 10 other pins. 

Naw, if you believe what you have said really characterizes what happened, I'm afraid you have been at some Kool Aid stand. There was no reason to change the 12 pins at all, and then to not even be consistent loco to loco... Botchmann is a good monicker. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 31 Jul 2012 07:36 AM 
SNIP
Then Botchmann comes out with more changes... this is just arrogance on Bachmanns part masked in attempting to drive a better standard. They could have left the existing 12 pins alone and done virtually anything with the 10 other pins. 

SNIP
Greg 


After Bachmann had added the smoke - and chuff - to the original AristoCraft socket, they had used up all the 12 pins on the K-27. 
Can you please enlighten me as to what the "more changes" were that Bachmann made on the 12 pin socket Bachmann they had originally fitted to the K-27?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ask Stan, I'm so done with the variations, and of course Tony is too. Don't forget the 10 pin side. 

Anyway, this is the reason for the delay. 

Greg


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

So, Greg, in your opinion, is it worth upgrading my current K-27 QSI decoders to the new Titan ones? 

Robert


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 Jul 2012 08:59 PM 

Here is one in a new Dash 9 graciously loaned to my by Scott Polk. Motor control problems solved, the loco below is running with BRMF on... I can set the start speed even slower CV2 is 6 here... will move down to about CV2 = 2.
This sound file is the new Dash 8 one, not on the site quite yet.



Greg,

Have you ever tried running this on straight DC?
I assume that is an option with the QSI Titan.

Knut


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I just checked my tracking number again and it says my package from Tony actually shipped today and will arrive Aug 2nd! I don't know what's in the package though since he only billed me for one decoder (and the QSI programmer). My guess from reading above is that it's the one with screw terminals, not the Aristo-Craft one. This would be unfortunate since I'd really like my Aristo-Craft Mallet to have sound in time for my first open house on Aug 11th. But I suppose I could make a wiring harness to adapt the Aristo-Craft socket to the screw terminals.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 31 Jul 2012 01:28 PM 
Ask Stan, I'm so done with the variations, and of course Tony is too. Don't forget the 10 pin side. 

Anyway, this is the reason for the delay. 

Greg 

Greg, with the greatest of respect and correct me if I am wrong, but given that the two pins (J1-5 & J1-9) of the 12 pin set had never been designated for anything before, it could be argued that Bachmann have actually set the de facto standard for that row of pins. 
Now to the ubiquitous row of 10? pins. If you are referring to the row of pins marked J2, there are in fact 11 pins. Not 10.
So, again, correct me if I am wrong, but up until Bachmann assigned each of them to various functions for the K-27, I don't believe there had been any assignment for them. So, again, Bachmann had set a de facto standard.
The only change I am aware of that Bachmann made to the J2 row was to reassign one of them as chuff # 2 for the Mallet. I could of course be wrong but I believe that was originally J2-2 the "Reed Switch" pin, which of course would be logical and really just a relabeling. I am not aware of that, or any other changes, being modified again later.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 31 Jul 2012 05:37 PM 

Now to the ubiquitous row of 10? pins. If you are referring to the row of pins marked J2, there are in fact 11 pins. Not 10.
So, again, correct me if I am wrong, but up until Bachmann assigned each of them to various functions for the K-27, I don't believe there had been any assignment for them. So, again, Bachmann had set a de facto standard.

Actually Aristo in their original run SD45 used the 10 pin plug to bring out sound and I believe regulated power. When I asked them if it would be continued in other locos I received no reply.

russ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's a lot more changes to the "standard" than just 2 pins... re-using the smoke pins, changing the logic levels of the chuff... on and on... 

J2 can also have 10 pins, 11 pins or 12 pins depending on where you go... but the Aristo standard has ALWAYS been 10 pins for YEARS... 

So, don't try to muck me up, I've been over and over much finer details... the 2 main inputs were Stan and I, so you can imagine the chaos. 

Russ is right, there were sporadic attempts at use of the 10 pins by Aristo... but you were always safe in ignoring them... 

Anyway it is what it is right now, until Bachmann brings another variation on the socket. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I stand corrected on the J2 row of pins. I have never seen a 10 pin set up. Only 11 pins.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony, you have never looked at an Aristo Craft loco? One of the tens of thousands? 

they have all had 10 pins for years... maybe all you have worked on is Bachmann? 

Really unbelievable. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg. 

Sad to say I have only ever installed one PnP ESC in an AristoCraft loco. A GP-40. I have just checked the pics of the installation and yes it had a 10 pin J2 row although I did not notice it at the time. There is no indication on the socket pcb as to what the J2 pins were assigned to, if anything. All the other Aristo installations (and there were not that many) were not PnP and the J1 dummy plug was left in place. The Aristo wiring was modified to suit an RCS non PnP ESC. 
Otherwise, the many dozens of PnP installations I have done have been in Bachmann locos.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 31 Jul 2012 02:52 PM 
So, Greg, in your opinion, is it worth upgrading my current K-27 QSI decoders to the new Titan ones? 

Robert 

I'm not Greg and you didn't ask my opinion, but I'll offer it anyway, even though I have not seen or tested the new large scale titian. I'm writing this partly to clear it up in my own mind.

Ok, right now, the advantages of the new large scale titan--which exists but STILL isn't shipping:

1. Lots more lighting outputs
2. Outputs for driving a pulsed smoke generator 
3. Higher amperage rating 
4. ability to tweak the sound file eq.
5. Ability to run the sound files "in stereo," which as I understand it means the ability to send different sounds to different speakers. 

Did I miss anything? 

One thing to remember with the new Titan is that it's still playing the old sound files. QSI says they are updating their sound fles to take advantage of what the Titan can do. But it's not at all clear when new sound fles will be available. Given QSI's track record, I'm inclined to say it will be quite a while before the new Titans sound dramatically different than the old QSIs..

For the future? Two things are apparently coming

1. the new sound files, recored at higher resolution and processed to take advantage of the Titan's greater memory
2. a new "operating system" (see below) 

On the QSI yahoo forum, LocoLee has been hyping, and I do mean hyping, a new software operating system which he says will make the Titan into not just a decoder but an "emulator." It's entirely unclear what this means. Lee no doubt has many talents, but writing in clear, straightforward prose is not among them. He posted this video to demonstrate the miraculous new powers of the operating system, which should be available and announced on the QSI Solutions web site "in two months." (LOL!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0IDitcXVXU&list=UU1tCGhDuAXuAjmDz4u0PZIQ&index=1&feature=plcp

I'm not sure what this video is supposed to demonstrate, although it does seem like the sounds are varying in a realistic and sophisticated way in response to changes in current draw. 

I'm really looking forward to getting one. Someday.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Lee just posted a new video that gives a much clearer sense of what QSI is working on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0isUAPu7DI&feature=youtu.be


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I will tell you all, from Tony Parisi, the owner of QSI Solutions and the manufacturer of the G scale Titan, that while the technical interpretation of the architecture of the Titan could be construed as an "emulator", the Titan is an incremental improvement over the "original" QSI unit. 

There are just many more "tweaks" available to you in terms of "modifying" the sounds of the prime mover. There is no huge difference in what will be available in two months, and QSI has always offered incremental "improvements" on it's features over the years. 

If anyone is really twisted up over this, then I encourage them to go right to the manufacturer and ask there. Tony Parisi is very accessible and up front about what is in the decoder and what are the plans. 

I've been involved in the design and development and testing since the original G scale QSI units, and work with the engineers at QSI Industries as well as the owner. All of these things are facts that can be validated with the principals of the companies. 

Sorry for all of this, sometimes you have to understand how exuberance can be transmogrified into confusion. 

(transmogrify is a fun word) 

Anyway, I've had the new Titans for a number of weeks, and I'm really excited to have them on the horizon. I expect them next week unless we get another "Bachmann surprise". 

Regards, Greg


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Greg, without having to find the surprise in this vast chain, could you summarize what the Bachmann surprise was?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Basically one pin on a certain loco was not "right" and it's electrical "sense" needed changing. That's the gist of it. I'm not going to ferret out which pin, which Bachmann and what voltages were involved. The Titan has jumpers soldered to the board to "enable" different pins on different versions. 

The saving grace is that all the screw terminals are always active... it's handling multiple versions of "plug and play" sockets. 

QSI modified the entire production run to make sure nothing could be damaged on one particular combination of "ingredients"... 

Greg


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Greg, 

Thanks for the update. I do see some site as advertising them for sale now, is that true? 

Rich


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are referring to Litchfield, I have seen them advertised too, if you want to know for sure, call the dealer in question they would be better to answer the question than Greg!! Regal


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yesterday Lichtfield told me they would be shipping in two weeks, according to Tony:


They said: "Thursday we were told 3 weeks from then." 

That is, two weeks from today


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I just got a Titan Magum in the mail today from Tony! So here's proof that they really do exist, and are shipping. I'm just disappointed that the Aristo-Craft one I ordered hasn't shipped. That's the one I needed first.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Ben, You must have the only one.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok, now we need a report!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm, just in time for the release of a certain Bachmann 2-8-0... 

Robert


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All, 
I went to the National Train Show in Grand Rapids today and I actually purchased on of the Titan units from Tony's Trains, so yes, they do exist and are finally in production. Looking forward to putting the unit in my Heisler. 

By the way, they had about 15 of the units above what they have reserved for previous orders! $200 each.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Two of the units I had on order arrived today. 

do I need to post a picture? Were in the same packaging as Ben's. 

Ben, do yours have the screw terminals numbers with little labels? Sure beats counting screw heads! 

Mine are the "magnums" also... Must have been the first in production. 

Greg


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Greg, yes, the terminals have number labels on the sides. 

I just wish I had time to try it out. I've been working around the clock trying to get ready for my first open house next Saturday, and installing the Titan isn't the top priority, yet.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I will have a few in Chicago for the National.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've ordered 3 more, of the "socket style"... hope to hook up several different smoke units in "direct smoke" mode this weekend. 

Be sure to turn RTC control on, now that the motor control works perfectly with 1, 2, and even 4 motor locos. 

Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Tony tells me that Loco Lee will be in Chicago. I hope that he will be running demos.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wild horses could not stop him ha ha! 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Well I got an email yesterday from Tony's Trains, saying something was on its way. I assume its some titan decoders. I'm expecting another one from Lichtfield. With luck, I'll be reporting back soon


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Should be the "Aristo or Bachmann style" with the pins for the socket. Mine are in the mail also. 

Greg


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Tony said my Aristo-Craft QSI decoder should be shipping this week too, although I haven't gotten a confirmation yet. I'm having second thoughts about it though, and wondering if I should call Tony and request another screw terminal one instead. It's for an Aristo-Craft Mallet, but I'm wondering if it would be better to install the decoder in the boiler instead of the tender, because otherwise I'm going to have to add another connector between the locomotive and tender for sound and smoke. 

Greg, your site has specific instructions for a QSI install for the original Mallet which had the Aristo-Craft board in the boiler... but mine is the new Mallet, with the Aristo-Craft board in the tender. What would you recommend? I think I have three choices: 
1) Run another set of wires 
2) Move the Aristo-Craft board and QSI to the boiler 
3) Abandon the Aristo-Craft board and wire everything to a screw terminal QSI board in the boiler 

I'll start another thread if I need specific install help, but right now I just need to know which QSI board I should order... thanks.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Look on my site under motive power.... aristo.... 2-8-0 consolidation.... there is a whole section on rewiring the consolidation and putting the decoder in the boiler... 

You can do the same thing.... 

Greg


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## RGS K27-461 (Jan 8, 2008)

It's Christmas time!!!! well it feels like it.. I ordered 4 Titan Magnum Decoders plus a QSI programmer plus other DCC stuff from TTX 2 weeks ago and it all turned up today! Well almost







Didn't get the Titan Bachmann / Aristo Decoder.

But I've got 2 Bachmann 2-8-0s to do plus a Aristo C16. Just waiting for a few new stickers for the decoders to arrive first.

Hey 'Fletch' might finally need a hand to put my 'Fletch' K-27 back together. (once i get the decoder in and working) Oh and a hand pulling apart the Bumble bee you built me.

Greg watch out - going to bombard you with a few questions as my instal/s go forward.


Really excited.....calming...







no rushing calm .....calmer......ahhhh
time to read the manual....

Like a big kid again.










Phil


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No problem, when you start the questions, let's start a new thread, so that it may help others by having specific information on specific issues.... 

Working with mine today too... 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I just got a box from Tony today. I had time to install one in a steam loco, just a basic install, no lighting control.

As far as I know, none of the QSI steam files have been updated. The sounds were basically the same as before for steam, with a few new whistles.

But there's a LOT more to configure, even on the old sound files. I did a quick and dirty chuff sync and within a short time got it close.

Had an odd problem with QSI's CV Manager program--it would not let me change CV 1. I switched over to decoder pro and it worked just fine. Not sure what was going on. 

If I'm going to make the most of what the titan can do, I'm going to have to strip some locos down and rewire them.

I have a USAT F3 on my bench that will need a complete overhaul--that will be next I think.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike, read my site on the Titan... you want to set the wheel diameter first. I have the exact settings for a consolidation/mikado. 

On the cv manager program, were you in service mode or ops mode? If you were in ops mode, you should not be able to change the address of the loco, because you are using the loco address to program it (make sense?) 

If you are doing an F3, get some bicolor leds with red and white, the green and red is bogus, never happen... but red and white makes sense... green and white would make even more sense, but never seen them... 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I got up early this morning and started in on the f3. I bought this used, with a Sierra card,and when I opened it up part of the wiring was fried, something to do with the Sierra battery.

So I gutted the thing and now I have to figure out the lighting. I've always found DCC lighting very confusing. this will have a lot of lighting options too. 

But I tried the stereo feature. Very cool. I have one speaker in the fuel tank and another just behind the cab, and have the horn adjusted to be all up front. Nice effect!


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## RGS K27-461 (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks Greg, I'll start a new topic soon.. I've had minor a set back







the 2 power supplies I got with the PowerPax & QSI Programmer are both 110 volts only...no good here in OZ!!! So I've purchased a Step Down Transformer via Evil Bay, should be here later in the week. So no Programming of the Decoders just Yet







.

Wiring diagram in supplied manual not to clear for my eyes, so I download it from QSI and I put the diagram up on my 55" LCD TV - can see it perfectly now. TITAN Large Scale Steam Manual

On my 1st Bachmann 2-8-0 (K-27 Fletch modified) I removed my Digitrax Decoder & Sierra Sound System from the tender. I've installed a large speaker in the tender and a 2nd speaker in the boiler. The decoder has been installed in the cab.

No light on tender so just used the 4 pin plug for speaker & wheel pick up so I removed the 2 pin plug from between the loco & tender to use on the next project.


On the next 2-8-0, I will install the decoder in the tender as there is just as many wires to go between the loco & the tender - unless some can tell/ show me where Bachmann thought a decoder should go/ plug into the loco.

Thanks

Phil


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just had the tender vs boiler discussion yesterday. 

Normally, if you use something more than just a headlight, there is less wiring between the loco and tender if you put the decoder in the boiler. 

in tender all you need is 6 wires, 2 track pickup, 2 speaker, 2 rear headlight. (assuming decoder in boiler) 

In boiler, you need 2 motor, 2 track pickup, 2 headlight, 2 speaker, 2 cab light, 2 smoke unit (assuming decoder in tender) 

If you use smoke or second speaker or more than just headlight, it's pretty clear leave the decoder in boiler... (wish Aristo had) 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm having a terrible time with the QSI CV manager. I can't make head or tail or the light management scheme, and I'm giving up and switching to JMRI. I've said it before: QSI really needs to hire an English major or two


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

what do you have to do? The head and tail are already assigned to ports, wires, and functions. 

What are you changing? 

did you read my Titan page, at the end, specifically about lighting ports?

*http://www.elmassian.com...trong>** 

Greg*


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, I've been trying all day to map the functions. I've got the single headlight and whatever you call the two lights above the marker board working when I press "headlight." But I'd like to be able to have the cab light and the number boards assigned to a different function, say, F3. I cant figure out how to do it. 

I've done this on many other decodes--I'm about ready to give up on the Titan lighting effects altogether. There is absolutely no reason it should be this difficult. 

I understand that you can group the lights, but there's no indication what function works what group of lights.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Why don't we start a new thread? 

Then you can put down what you are changing and I can take a look at it. You are right, should not be difficult... probably just a simple misunderstanding. 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Will do--it's probably some very simple dumb thing.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm jealous. My Titan has not arrived yet. However, mine is a bachmann plug so I guess they are a little delayed.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

When you get it just be aware that it doesn't act like other DCC decoders. It won't let you do some of the function mapping that you can do with other decoders. If you don't normally remap functions them it won't matter. but see my thread on QSI lights for an example of whats puzzling about it. I'm working on a review of the Titan that I'll post soon


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey Lownote, 

Where did ypu come up with "It won't let you do some of the function mapping that you can do with other decoders" There is nothing different about the Emulator funtions that is different than any other QSI, other than the Emulator has More functions to choose from. 

Loco Lee


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

If you read through this thread you would know the answer 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/afv/topic/aff/34/aft/125659/Default.aspx


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

The Cab light function is being added to the function list, for those of you who want to be able to control every light on the locomotive. There will also be 2 engine room lights that can be controled as well.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Lee it seems to me that it's difficult, if not impossible, to map a single light to a specific function key, other than either F0 or F12. Let me give an example of why I would want to do this.

I have a small 0-4-0 steamer with a powered tender. There's an NCE decoder in the loco and a Titan just installed in the tender. I've got them speed matched and ready to go. The tender has marker lights, and so does the loco. I'd like to have the key I assigned to the marker lights in the loco ALSO turn on the marker lights in the tender. This is a trivial thing, true, but with other decoders, making this happen is a trivial thing. I cannot figure out how to do it with the Titan. 

The titan is wired in accordance with the manual, so that the marker light is in J3 #11 and J2 #8. 

I'd appreciate any help you could offer, so that I can understand this thing better.


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

To makes sure that I give you the correct answer, I have forwarded your request to QSI's top software guy . 

QSI is tring to think of everything, but from time to time we find that we can't think of everything. So when people like you, bring up things like this, we figure out how to do it, and add it to the software. So if it doesn't do it today, we will figure out how to do it for you tomorrow. I'm not a steamer guy, and I've never tried to do what you want to do here. QSI will get back to me, and I'll let you know if we can do it now, and if not, we'll add it for you. 

Lee


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Keep in mind guys. QSI's goal is to make your locomotives as much like the prototype as possable. So if any of you find something that you don't think matches the prototype, please let me know, so QSI can change it to make it correct. 

Thanks in advance for your help. 

Lee


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Lee, 
As I understand it, QSI will also be offering another card that can be used just as a stand alone sound system. Sort of like the Phoenix P8 is. Some time ago I asked if this forthcoming version will be able to read a PWM voltage from an existing ESC (such as Revolution or RCS etc) to determine engine revs just like the Phoenix P8 can. 
Any answer to that question yet please?


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

There was talk of such a device, but that is all I ever heard about it. At this time there is no production plans for it in the near future.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

OK! Thanks.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Loco Lee on 22 Aug 2012 09:56 PM 
Keep in mind guys. QSI's goal is to make your locomotives as much like the prototype as possable.
Exactly! That's the message QSI has been preaching from day one.
So it's a bit hard to understand that with the new Titan decoder one can't control at least all the functions individually that a REAL locomotive engineer can control.

I find the few controls that lownote wants to program very basic.

Knut


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I figured out how to do it--more or less. See my post in the other thread, "puzzled by qsi lighting."


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes, 

You can map any light to any function key. The only exception to that is the truck, and step lights, and they are being added.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Important finding I am posting in every QSI thread: 

You MUST have a motor connected to the Titan when programming. The original QSI did not require this. The Titan does. Just spent quite a few hours with someone who used his existing bench programming setup that did not include a motor connected. 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

So, anyone heard anything on the Bachmann version of the Titan. Is it still being worked on?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They have shipped.... did someone tell you otherwise? 

Greg


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

"So, anyone heard anything on the Bachmann version of the Titan. Is it still being worked on?"

Greg, you said they're *finally







*shipping the Bachmann version of the Titan







I hope I'll be seeing mine sometime in the near future, then







- my B-mann Mallet has pretty much been a *"shelf queen"







*for the entire summer waiting for the Titan replacement for it's original QSI decoder. I did talk to Tony a couple of weeks ago & he mentioned the software issue concerning the B-mann version of the Titan holding things up; may try to give him another call this coming week. 

By the way, may take me a bit of time to get back to any replies on this - my main desktop PC croaked







on me about 2 weeks ago (naturally during a particularly crazy time at work







- was doing a lot of OT, was too tired most nights after getting home to get into it much







). Looking like a motherboard issue







at this point. Either going to replace the motherboard or may speed up the planned purchase of a Macbook Pro







I was planning anyway for the holidays. Currently on with the VAIO laptop my "significant other"







normally uses (managed to pry it off of her for a few hours!).







Tom


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I may have misspoke, I will confirm next week. 

Save your money and get a windows 8 tablet, I love it. 

Greg


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

"Save your money and get a windows 8 tablet, I love it."


Not to hijack the thread, Greg,







, but a tablet's not gonna cut it for what I want (mainly editing HD video shot with the pro-grade Sony HD camcorder); spent some time at one of the local Apple stores this past weekend viewing some railfan video I shot down at Valley RR







in nearby CT on one of the Macbook Pro's (& playing a bit with their professional editing software, Final Cut Pro). Right now my video editing (& I shot a *lot







*of both model & full-scale railroad video this past summer!) is on hold until I get another suitable PC here (& a $300 ~ 400 laptop won't be up to the task either).







Still haven't entirely given up on the dead desktop PC, going to price a new motherboard & CPU sometime this week.

Getting back to the thread subject, hear anything from Tony yet on when the B-mann version of the Titan will be out
















Tom


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, you can only get i3 and i5 on tablets this month.. you will be able to get an i7 one soon... basically same as your macbook pro.. 

Don't equate a tablet with only lower power processors... and of course they aren't $300-$400, the higher power ones are more... 

Anyway, Tony has shipped some of the Bachmann units, and is filling backorders on them. 

If you want one, you need to get an order in so you get yours sooner.. there are backorders on all of them.. 

The bachmann version has some extra software tweaks to deal with the variations from the standard Aristo socket../ 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well they (Tony) contacted me at least a month ago about the upcharge with the new Titan. I assumed that they had them in hand, but I have not seen anything since. I thought someone said QSI was having problems with the Bachmann version of the Titan and assumed there was a delay. But, like Tom I have a Mallet sitting on the shelf waiting for a decoder and that loco is planned for a museum display over Christmas. 

So here's hoping.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jake, did you order one? 

What one are you wanting? (Aristo, Magnum, Bachmann?) 

6 or 10 amp? 

Greg


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

I received today 

8 Gwire receivers 

2 USA 10 amp boards 

1 Mag 10 amp board


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I ordered a 6 amp Bachmann or at least that is what it turned into. 

My order dates back to Dec 2010 when I ordered an older style one and was placed on the bubble. 
I have to say that I'm not surprised by the delay after QSI didnt produce a product for almost 2 years. There has to be a large backlog of orders. My concern is the Bachmann version even shipping yet?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 08 Oct 2012 08:50 PM 
Yeah, you can only get i3 and i5 on tablets this month.. you will be able to get an i7 one soon... basically same as your macbook pro.. 

Don't equate a tablet with only lower power processors... and of course they aren't $300-$400, the higher power ones are more... 

Anyway, Tony has shipped some of the Bachmann units, and is filling backorders on them. [/b] 
If you want one, you need to get an order in so you get yours sooner.. there are backorders on all of them.. 

The bachmann version has some extra software tweaks to deal with the variations from the standard Aristo socket../ 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yay, got notice in my email that my Titan is shipping this morn.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are programming new sounds, be sure to download the latest software from the site the Q2Upgrade and the Q2CVManager .... 

Also, check to see if your programmer firmware is up to date. 

Greg


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07 Sep 2012 09:47 AM 
Important finding I am posting in every QSI thread: 

You MUST have a motor connected to the Titan when programming. The original QSI did not require this. The Titan does. Just spent quite a few hours with someone who used his existing bench programming setup that did not include a motor connected. 

Greg *Greg
OK about the Titan and the Motor (or a sub load) vs older QSI prog difference.*

*Do we still need to remove/disable the lights, G-wire rcvr and SuperCap*
*to be able to program the TITAN boards?*

*PS: Thanks Robbie (Mr RLD) - 1st TITAN arrived quick......*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Disable lights? I recommend it because some are way too much load... (you can measure the baseline current in the programmer diagnostics screen... keep it under 100 ma) 

Gwire needs to be disabled, I think you can do it with a CV... 

Yes of course on the supercap... you are filtering the programing signal! 

By the way, be sure to get the latest, they fixed a small bug that caused programming to fail if you played with the sound file settings.... it's on their site. 

For all of you that needed a railbus sound... get the "Winton" sound file, and change the engine to "Rolls Royce 8" .... not bad... 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, they do exist. I received my Bachmann style Titan today. It is in my grubby little fingers.


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