# Kader report show some info on the market rigth from thier website



## Daniel Peck (Mar 31, 2009)

Management Discussion and Analysis 

_(Continued)_
KADER HOLDINGS COMPANY LIMITED
*Model Trains
*The turnover for model trains for the year ended 31 December 2012 was approximately HK$693.18
million, representing a decrease of approximately 19.48% as compared to last year.
During the year under review, the Group has continued to improve the quality of the products,
develop innovative products, enrich the product line and promote the product image and brand
name. This strategy has succeeded in receiving encouraging responses from customers and
gaining their loyalty, which in turn has helped maintain our leading position in the industry. In
2012, the Group has continued to grow its range of licensed products, including the introduction
of the Chuggington™ line of train sets and accessories. The Group expanded its Ringling
Bros. and Barnum & Bailey™ circus-themed choices in HO, O and LS in 2012. The Group also
successfully introduced the Li’l Big Haulers

® (including three ready-to-run sets and a full selection
of separate-sale engines and rolling stock) with a compact size and colorful designs to act as
a gateway to LS model railroading. In addition, the Group’s Sound Value™ Digital Command
Control (“DCC”) sound-equipped locomotives have proven to be strong sellers, and the Group
continued to expand its offerings with many new models. Moreover, Williams by Bachmann line
rolled out the GP30, its first locomotive with True Blast Plus™ 16-bit polyphonic sound.
The Group is proud to announce that during the year, our subsidiary, Bachmann Europe Plc.,
was awarded “Manufacturer of the Year 2012” in the overall category and also for the OO scale
and N scale model trains category by Model Rail Magazine, RM Web and MREMAG. Bachmann
Europe Plc. has received the “Manufacturer of the Year” award in the overall category for
five continuous years. Moreover, Bachmann Branchline has received the “Manufacturer of the
Year” in the overall OO scale model trains category. In addition, our OO scale model trains,
“Branchline Pillbox Brake Van”, “Midland Pullman Multiple Unit”, “Class 85 Electric Locomotive” and
“C Class Steam Locomotive” were awarded “Model of the Year 2012” under different categories.
Moreover, our Graham Farish N scale model trains “WD Steam Locomotive”, “Class 20 Diesel
Locomotive”, “Midland Pullman Multiple Unit”, “Pillbox Brake Van”, “JJA Auto Ballaster” and
“LMS Inspection Coach” were awarded “Model of the Year 2012” while Graham Farish has
received the “Manufacturer of the Year” in the overall N scale model trains category. In addition,
our Liliput brand N scale “Karwendel DRG/DB” was awarded first place in “Model of the Year”


in the category express coaches type by German Magazine “eisenbahnmagazin”.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Nah! Too small to read. That's why I'm into Large Scale!









Andrew


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well it sounds like good news for Kader and Bachmann and this can only be good news for the Large Scale hobby.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't see where they say much about large scale and "decrease of approximately 19.48% as compared to last year" this is all about 2012. 
Richard


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

" The Group expanded its Ringling 

Bros. and Barnum & Bailey™ circus-themed choices in HO, O and LS in 2012. The Group also 

successfully introduced the Li’l Big Haulers 


® (including three ready-to-run sets and a full selection 

of separate-sale engines and rolling stock) with a compact size and colorful designs to act as 

a gateway to LS model railroading." 

It may not be much, but it's better than nothing. And the Lil Big Haulers are the future of this hobby. Without gaining the interest of the little kids now, this hobby is dead.


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

For the period ending June 30, 2013 they had a loss of HK$90 million, representing a 13.7% decline over the same period in 2012. Their current liabilities increased to HK$227 million and total liabilities include a HK$20 million "loan from director". Their only real safety net is Hong Kong real estate and not from their current operations.

If you take out the "real estate" component, the financial ratio flags are showing red.
Not good.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Not good. 

It's a good thing they already own the Aristo molds, then, and they sure won't be in the mood to spend a lot of money paying for things like the Aristo name etc. 
And... I suspect they won't retain the Aristo "race for the bottom" pricing either....


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Posted By rlvette on 03 Oct 2013 11:03 AM 


It may not be much, but it's better than nothing. And the Lil Big Haulers are the future of this hobby. Without gaining the interest of the little kids now, this hobby is dead. 



You want kids in this hobby. Then the decoder people need to step up their game. It's not enough to run around a train in a circle anymore. You want to get kids attention you need to have the ability to allow kids to control a train through their Ipad and Anroid devices while getting a camera view of the train running the track like you can do with the European Z21 system. That gets kids attention!


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Then the decoder people need to step up their game 

They're trying, but the battery mafia keep trying to block their way! Of course it would help to agree on some standards...that would be a start... 

I totally agree, though, that kids much prefer the interactive DCC compared to battery. I have found that even really young kids quickly learn which function button triggers the various lights and sounds, and they spend a lot of time doing that. The technology is no barrier to them anymore, and as you say systems like the Z21 go along way to draw kids in. If you look at the major players still surviving, they are all heading in that direction; Bachmann (if they would just comply with current NMRA standards like voltage etc.), Maerklin/LGB, Piko etc. 

Keith


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I posted this on LSC, guess I can repeat it here: 

Interesting, we knew the timeframe from '08 to '12 sucked. an almost 20% drop in sales from '11 is scary but we have all seen it in some form, very curious to see if sale rise this year, it sure feels better than '11 or '12, AC's druthers aside. the two shows I did this year were way more crowded than years past if thats any sign. 

I wish I had some way of knowing just how well the Lil Big Haulers have been selling, I haven't seen them anywhere other than at Gold Coast and of course the online stores. I always felt they were exactly what LS needed IF they could get them into the Big Box stores like Target or places like OSH or Home Depot during the holidays. I'm think they would do well there, but of course thats just me. 

If the mfrs keep relying on us long time old pharts for new sales, they are doomed, as most of us are already saturated with stock. They REALLY need to go after the new blood, and that means focusing on SMALLER starter layouts maybe even encouraging small INDOOR layouts, to GET PEOPLE INTERESTED, and I'm sorry but as nice a model it is, a $1500 C-19 that needs half the yard just to turn around AIN'T going to do that. Thats why I love to see the Lil Hauler line in more mainstream stores. 

****, I am really surprised they haven't been pushing the new upgraded Annies as fodder for starters, maybe now they are TOO reliable....?


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

It's not enough to run around a train in a circle anymore. You want to get kids attention you need to have the ability to allow kids to control a train through their Ipad and Anroid devices while getting a camera view of the train running the track 
Two points here:
1 - train in a circle. tThat's not controllable by the manufacturers of rollingstock, etc. It's up to US to provide an interesting layout (our own) on which they can run a train.
2 - Ipad/Android control isn't necessary or even desirable. They're used to remote controllers for TVs, ceiling fans, etc. The various systems we have right now (DCC, etc.) have remotes any kid can figure out.

I just happen to have this photo of my 2-1/2 year old granddaughter with the NCE secondary controller. And this year (3-1/2) has been even more fun.


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Posted By JackM on 03 Oct 2013 01:09 PM 
It's not enough to run around a train in a circle anymore. You want to get kids attention you need to have the ability to allow kids to control a train through their Ipad and Anroid devices while getting a camera view of the train running the track 
Two points here:
1 - train in a circle. tThat's not controllable by the manufacturers of rollingstock, etc. It's up to US to provide an interesting layout (our own) on which they can run a train.
2 - Ipad/Android control isn't necessary or even desirable. They're used to remote controllers for TVs, ceiling fans, etc. The various systems we have right now (DCC, etc.) have remotes any kid can figure out.

I just happen to have this photo of my 2-1/2 year old granddaughter with the NCE secondary controller. And this year (3-1/2) has been even more fun. 



Thank you for proving the point of the old man mentality of not driving things forward and not keeping up with technology. You are right its up to the person who owns a layout to make an interesting layout but that is not going to capture kids attention. Yes to a two and a half year old yes the buttons and controlling the engine are neat. By the time they are 5 they have graduated to touch devices and pretty pictures that your 1980's TV remote do not provide so it's no where near as interesting. I would love to me able to revisit this topic in a few years and see what your granddaughter has her eyes glued to then? Her smart phone or your 80's train remote? You may not think its desirable cause it's not what you want, plus I am betting you don't have an Ipad or smart phone. To me I desire that control and want that capability and see it becoming the norm, it is also what captues kids attention.


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## jwalls110 (Dec 12, 2012)

Take your phone or tablet outside in the sun. Look at the screen. Mine are hard or impossible to read. In the shade not a real problem, dim but readable. Until they start making the screens readable in direct sunlight buttons and knobs make more sense. 

It has little to do with keeping up with technology and more to do with usability as far as I'm concerned. 

BTW if there was something in Google Play store I would download it in a minute!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes my phone is hard to read in the sun. 

Then look at all the thousands of people using their phones in the sun. 

They will do it anyway because they are having fun with their phones. I prefer black and white displays in the sun, higher contrast, but younger people don't care. 

On one hand we talk about getting young people into the hobby, and then we put all our opinions in our own personal "constraints", instead of putting ourselves in the shoes of the younger generations who are the future. 

I have all kinds of kids run on my DCC system, not ONE complained about screen readability... they were all way too busy controlling all the different sounds (way more than just bell and whistle) throwing turnouts, etc. 

And when I gave them an iPhone instead of a traditional controller, they were in heaven! The iPhone is harder to use, but it is way cooler.... 

At shows, running our dedicated NCE throttles, no one ever wants to see the throttles, or ask anything about them.... but we also use iPhones and iPads... wow, everyone is amazed we can use them... 

Put yourself in the shoes of our future railroaders.... 

Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Not interested. I saw a very large (and expensive) HiRail basement pike a while back. Had to "dock" your tablet to download the controls. 
NOT interested. 
I've had two year olds running and switching. My granddaughter isn't even two yet, and she blows the whistle and rings the bell. 
I don't even own anything on the new generations of phones. 
I have a cordless. 
Somewhere I have an emergency cell....and it's just that. 
Not interested....in seeing folks running my railroad using a phone....since they're on the Gawd Darn things all the time anyway staying "connected"...and crashing. 
I have dial phones that work. Vacuum tube radios that work (including in the dashboard of my Ford), cars almost as old as I am that still run....all the time. 
I have a .45ACP that is over 100 years old, still does the job. 
I refuse to embrace new technology for technologies sake. 
If it truly is better, I'll look into it. 
Until then, I turn the key, pull the manual choke out, and press the starter button on my six volt positively grounded Ford, and drive off. 

No power steering, no power windows, no computers, no automatic chokes or fuel injection, no ac.......and nothing breaks.


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## jwalls110 (Dec 12, 2012)

The most important part TOC? 

Technology for technologies sake. 

I agree 100%. 


And I do it for a living.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

"Technology for technologies sake" 

Now that is where the art of spin truly comes in. How to convince the Hoi Polloi that they *have* to have the latest and greatest gizmo just because it is the latest gizmo.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony Apple sure seams to have figured that one out ...if the lines of sheep waiting outside their stores every time they issue an iphone in a new color are any example.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You don't have to convince them, look at cell phone sales, people are trading up every year just to get the latest. 

Don't fight them, embrace them and bring more people to the hobby. I like my NCE throttle better, but I bring 3-4 iPhones to the shows to let people control trains. 

Gre


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Thread 'em and their phones, Greg! 

My control system for my 2-rail 0 is...Marn-0-Stats...6-1/2 feet of them.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

....One man, against the world... 

No, I know what you mean. It's like paddle shifters...a downshift isn't a downshift unless a double clutch is involved. 

Keith


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 03 Oct 2013 11:52 AM as
.......

They're trying, but the battery mafia keep trying to block their way! Of course it would help to agree on some standards...that would be a start... 

I totally agree, though, that kids much prefer the interactive DCC compared to battery. I have found that even really young kids quickly learn which function button triggers the various lights and sounds, and they spend a lot of time doing that. The technology is no barrier to them anymore, and as you say systems like the Z21 go along way to draw kids in. If you look at the major players still surviving, they are all heading in that direction; Bachmann (if they would just comply with current NMRA standards like voltage etc.), Maerklin/LGB, Piko etc. 

Keith 
Please tell us uninformed hobbiest what in the world makes DCC more kid friendly than battery power? Pushing stalled locos across a turnout? Pehaps letting them clean track? Just because DCC has 20 functions instead of 4? Does DCC have any form of automation, such that a kid can actually observe a train doing something other than running in a circle? Are there any DCC transmitters that you can give to a 2-3 year old without the fear of wrecking your train?

Teenagers may be attracted to the overly complex DCC transmitters with all the buttons, displays, and layers of menus. They can pretend it is as much fun as a cell phone. Now if you can just get them to look up ..... at the TRAIN?


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## jwalls110 (Dec 12, 2012)

I deal with users on a daily basis. 

They want something that works, works well and is easy. 

Toys only occupy their imagination for a short time if there is an easier way. 

Day to day reality vs What I Think the World Should Do.


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## ScottyB (Jan 14, 2008)

FWIW, I have my indoor On30 layout set up with DCC and controlled entirely by Android phones. My 6 and 3 year olds love it and it works great. Additional phones - er, throttles can be bought used for less than $20. No layers of menus to go through... Each function is clearly labeled on the touchscreen. So they know exactly what button sounds the bell, horn, etc. They LOVE the technology. (As do I.) 

My small loop of G scale track uses the same system - I only have 2 DCC locos, but it is easy for the kids to use. And JMRI has put an end to figuring out CVs. Now it's just point and click. 

Cost of track is the primary reason I stopped buying G scale, but my desire for this type of simple, cheap control system and the inability to easily DCC many LS locos sent my hobby dollars elsewhere. 

Perhaps I'm atypical, but that is my 2¢... 

Also, Victor is spot on as usual. All this stuff that needs 8 foot curves puts it out of reach for us indoor guys. My biggest fear is that in 10 years everything made in this hobby will be in HO and N since that's all newcomers will be able to afford. 

Scott


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Keith wrote: 
I totally agree, though, that kids much prefer the interactive DCC compared to battery. 
I don't think you can draw that distinction, though. "Battery" includes Airwire and QSI/G-wire, which use the same kinds of throttles and decoders being used in traditional track-powered DCC environments. It's just that there are "simpler" forms of battery control for those who don't need the sophistication that one who uses the DCC protocol (in whatever environment) can avail themselves. With DCC, if you don't need 28 functions, you simply don't use 28 functions. With battery R/C systems, if you don't need 28 functions, you've got an array of other control systems that you can use to match the functionality that you desire. 

As to what kids prefer; my kids like to ring the bell and blow the whistle. That seems to be quite adequate for them and their friends who come over. They're not the least bit interested in the differences between command protocols. So long as they can figure out how to speed the train up, slow it down, change direction, ring the bell, and blow the whistle, they're happy as clams. 

Del wrote: 
Does DCC have any form of automation, such that a kid can actually observe a train doing something other than running in a circle?


Lots, with or without external electronics. Some decoders allow you to program automation directly into the decoder itself, so no external wiring is needed beyond creating individual blocks to create the various means of triggering these events. There are also things like NCE's "Mini Panel" which is essentially an executable list of instructions that gets triggered by external triggers. Each time one is triggered, it executes the next batch of instructions. Add to that products like DCCBitSwitch's automations, and you can do a whole lot with automating traditional through-the-track DCC. When it comes to automating an entire railroad, it's probably the most flexible means of doing so. 

Del wrote: 
Are there any DCC transmitters that you can give to a 2-3 year old without the fear of wrecking your train? 
While I agree simple is better in terms of the really little ones, by the time they get to be in the 4 - 6 age group, they understand the concept of "don't push that button." (Which is reinforced by "if the train stops because you pushed a button I told you not to, it's the next kid's turn.") In addition, some DCC manufacturers do make "simple" handheld throttles for their systems. I've been told by folks in clubs who run DCC that these simplified throttles are more for the older, technophobic members than the younger generation who seem to adapt very quickly to the multi-button throttles. Speaking only for my kids (and their friends), they adapt very quickly to whatever little black box I stick in their hands, whether it's my Airwire throttles, Revolution, RailBoss, or any other flavor including whatever comes with the el-cheapo battery R/C train sets from Toys R Us. For them, it's the train running on the track that's important, not how you make it go. 

I suspect as my kids get older, their tastes for sophistication will develop as mine did while growing up. In another 10 - 15 years, I think the thought of using anything _but_ a smartphone or tablet to run our trains will seem quaint at best, if not outright barbaric. Then, you can tailor your user interface to match your desired level of sophistication. You might even have a photo-realistic interface where you move the appropriate knobs and levers in a locomotive cab to make the loco respond. You could combine it with a miniature camera in the cab of the model feeding back real-time video so you can see out of your "virtual" cab what your locomotive is really seeing on the railroad. 

Scott wrote: 
My biggest fear is that in 10 years everything made in this hobby will be in HO and N since that's all newcomers will be able to afford. 
Have you priced HO recently? Good LORD! They're paying almost as much for a locomotive as we are! The days of $30 Athearn locos and $6 box cars seem to be long gone. The hobby overall is just getting expensive, regardless of scale. If I were to recreate my old HO collection at today's prices, it would exceed the cost of my large scale collection by a very wide margin. If anything, I think today's prices effect the quantity of models bought, but not the quantity of people doing the buying. People are buying, just not in multiples as they used to. There's a good side to that; it fosters the perception that you don't need a large collection to "properly" enjoy the hobby. 

When my family and I got involved in large scale in the mid 70s, the prices (adjusted for inflation) were on par with or higher than they are now. Modelers were very happy with only three or four locos and a dozen cars or so cars. Then things got cheap and we grew our collections exponentially. Not so much because we needed the cars, but because we were so used to paying $100 for a single box car that $40 was great. So instead of just buying one, we bought three! Within a very short span of time, our collection doubled! How we enjoyed the hobby, however, stayed largely the same. We just more stuff to enjoy it with. 

I think that kind of a "get back to our roots" thing is healthy. I think it keeps things in balance. The more stuff you have, the more time you need to keep on top of it, and the more time the hobby consumes. Then it becomes overwhelming if you don't have the time to devote to it, or--worse--becomes all-consuming to the detriment of other things. I think the hobby is strongest when its participants are balanced in their approach to it. How many people have heard someone say "I used to do that, but it started to take up too much time, so I sold everything and got out of it." I think higher prices are more of a governor than a restrictor. They don't keep us from getting involved, but they do keep us from going hog wild. 

Later, 

K


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

*To Keith:*

Double clutch is better and faster









Those people still ignore that the fastest technology in today's race cars and some of the faster street cars is electronic shifting. You know when you can't hold your hand on a stick shift it can't be good.


*To the question of train and function operation:*

But of course DCC offers the ability to operate and control fully automatically functions other than start and stop of trains. To the maximum this is being done in commercial layouts. But most of the people getting into the hobby are happy if they have a loop around and pond, start the train and drink their beer. That is nice and dandy for them, but doesn't keep a kids interest fro more than 2 minutes.


*Keith's comment of Race to the bottom:*
The Internet has changed a lot of things. The decline of the hobby is coming from the fact that we don't have many accidental newcomers into the hobby. Think of the millions of baby boomers that are coming of age and need a hobby. If we can interest them and only convert 5% of that group this hobby would easily be a $250M hobby (instead of its measly $30M). There is not enough volume in the market to introduce much new because for break even you need to sell at least 1500 at an affordable price level or the prices have to go up 3x - 4x. Which brand new engine do you know sold 1500x in the last years?

So accidental sales, such as ie. some one walks through a mall and see a large scale train shop. Nada, and more and more train shops have gone out of business, due to Keith's comment "Race to the bottom" fueled by the Internet. Dealers no longer sell service and advice, the sell price. The remaining business are not enough to make accidental sales happening. Additional we don't have any HG-TV shows on a regular basis. One time there was a large-scale video, LGB received 1000s of calls of people interested in it.

The industry needs to drastically rethink their model. Maybe the remaining hobbyists need to become Avon like door-to-door sales consultants and go into the neighborhoods and demonstrate and entice. This is completely independent from Battery and DCC, it is about the desire about the hobby itself.

*Therefore - to all:*If you want to become a LargeScale spokeperson and earn extra income for your own train hobby, you should talk to Train-Li-USA. My wife will be more than happy to work with you. If one existing hobbyist can get annually 10 new interested people spending $500 each, that is about $100M back into the industry and roughly $20M into the hands of the SpokesPoeple in either the form of cash or the form of products.
Now let's start our own rejuvenation, because if we pump up the industry more new product will become available. Also if we find sponsors, there are over 1000 canned TV shows about the hobby available that only need to be synched in English.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Del, besides the fact that you have a chip on your shoulder for DCC and honestly any track power, and that you are indeed a manufacturer of battery operated systems, and a proprietary system to boot, let me answer your question.
First a word... pushing stalled locos across a turnout or cleaning track. You cannot be objective, both battery power and track power can work very well, I don't clean track nor do I have stalled locos. You could use the same technique against battery power: pushing stalled battery powered locos because the battery went flat, removing batteries from the loco to make sure you won't have fires when a charger fails... you should be fair, ESPECIALLY since you are a vendor...

Now I'll answer your questions:

1. Kids would like 20 functions over 4? YOU BETCHA, THE MORE DIFFERENT THINGS TO DO, THE MORE FUN. Remember being a kid? 

2. Does DCC have any form of automation? You ARE kidding, right? Yes, because DCC systems normally have a computer interface somewhere, there are TONS of different options and many are free software. By the way, kids love computers and software.

3. Yes there are plenty of DCC "transmitters" that you can give a 2 or 3 year old, this feature is not Tappero specific. Also you can have an INSTANT "all stop" command accessible from any transmitter... you CANNOT do that on any current battery system.

4. Yes kids ARE ATTRACTED TO OVERLY COMPLEX THINGS ESPECIALLY WITH BUTTONS, LCD SCREENS, ETC. Again keep fighting reality and it will pass you by. Why fight it, embrace it if you really are thinking about keeping the hobby alive.

Again, look at the sales of smart phones and tablets, people are buying technology for technology's sake.... ask any person under 70 what version of Android they are on, most know to the 3rd level. (4.2.1 on one of mine, just got 4.3 on my new note 3)

Really, you are fighting a losing battle, because you are not fighting the people on the forum, you are fighting people who ALREADY have embraced technology.

Greg


Posted By Del Tapparo on 03 Oct 2013 08:16 PM 
Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 03 Oct 2013 11:52 AM as
.......

They're trying, but the battery mafia keep trying to block their way! Of course it would help to agree on some standards...that would be a start... 

I totally agree, though, that kids much prefer the interactive DCC compared to battery. I have found that even really young kids quickly learn which function button triggers the various lights and sounds, and they spend a lot of time doing that. The technology is no barrier to them anymore, and as you say systems like the Z21 go along way to draw kids in. If you look at the major players still surviving, they are all heading in that direction; Bachmann (if they would just comply with current NMRA standards like voltage etc.), Maerklin/LGB, Piko etc. 

Keith 
Please tell us uninformed hobbiest what in the world makes DCC more kid friendly than battery power? Pushing stalled locos across a turnout? Pehaps letting them clean track? Just because DCC has 20 functions instead of 4? Does DCC have any form of automation, such that a kid can actually observe a train doing something other than running in a circle? Are there any DCC transmitters that you can give to a 2-3 year old without the fear of wrecking your train?

Teenagers may be attracted to the overly complex DCC transmitters with all the buttons, displays, and layers of menus. They can pretend it is as much fun as a cell phone. Now if you can just get them to look up ..... at the TRAIN?


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

My colleagues last month sold a complete 200x30' railroad automation layout to a University robotics club with 700 members and student body of 36,000. All members have access to the layout at any time 24x7. There was never any doubt what the controller should be since they all carry one at all times even if they are just passing by the 'yard'.

Cheers,
Victor


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 04 Oct 2013 12:20 PM 
*To Keith:*

Double clutch is better and faster









Those people still ignore that the fastest technology in today's race cars and some of the faster street cars is electronic shifting. You know when you can't hold your hand on a stick shift it can't be good.



Kieth Double-clutching? are you driving something from this era???










In a high performance car the paddle shifters are a must, on the latest Ferrari shifts can be accomplished in 1/100 of a second, thats faster than you can blink your eye. Such technology is an absolute advantage as you can progress up and down thru the shifts far faster than by hand. But unless you are making your living racing or have a race course in your backyard with open track days, they are for the most part a useless and very very expensive option.


What gets my goat and makes me laugh though is seeing paddles in what I consider stupid situations like luxury and sports cars where you know the driver will NEVER go more that 80mph yet they have racing paddle shifters so they can get from 0 to 30 faster than anyone else in the parking lot, but of course they wont even do that based on the observation of how they pudder along. I'm convinced that like most similar options on most luxury and sports coupes (like ceramic brakes), they are there simply to rescue more money from the buyers bank account. 

BTW thats one of my lotto lust car


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