# Make your Ruby/Shay/Forney run better than new.



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

]I will be talking about any Accucraft engine with a reversing valve when I say Ruby
I have always thought that the Ruby had too much lap but until a couple of weeks ago I hadn't done anything other than that.
I took an old Ruby valve and measured it up. The piston flange was .095 wide and the port was .053 wide. (the hole in the body is .058 but there is a sleeve inside that is .053) 
This computed to 79% lap which would be ok for Stephenson or Walchaerts but 2 -3 times what the simple Ruby should have in my opinion.
My friend Eric had an old Porter which he had run the wheels off. He added 1/2" cylinders but the performance was sub par. He offered the chassis to me for my mad experiments.
Upon inspection of the unit, I noticed a few leaks which were easily fixed and that the eccentrics were worn out especially the one on the left. Since it was now running on air I decided to leave the eccentrics alone for the experiment which was to decrease the lap by enlarging the port size.











As you can see, without making any changes other than drilling out the ports, there was a day and night improvement in the running of the engine



I then replaced the eccentrics with ball bearing followers and tested it again











I later did the same upgrade to my Ruby valved Garratt and it increased the power by about 20% and it seemed to use less steam

If you open the attached link, you will see four pie charts which represent the original Ruby valving and my changed valving. Below the link are several photos I was able to copy and paste thanks to some help from Charles. The pies don't show a complete revolution of the wheel as the exhaust on a simple valve is timed the same as the admission due to the fact that the lap is equal on both sides of the port. The forward direction is on the right and the reverse is on the left. The hand drawn lap diagram is to scale.
The next photos show the valve body removed from the chassis, the drills laid out (I only went up to .073), the drilling process, valve body face after surfacing off with 600 sandpaper on a glass sheet and finally the before and after shot of the valves
One thing that isn't shown is cleaning out the valve bore after drilling. There will be only minimal break through if you make the drillings in small steps. Start with a #54 and work your way up in one number increments to #49. Use a D-bit or just the hard valve piston to remove any burs left on the inside of the bore. if you don't have material to make a D-bit, you can just oil up the piston and push it through and work it a few times till it slides easily. Then, clean it out with solvent and compressed air or a Q-tip.

[http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_139515839103016&key=a0c9cca74e6cfd4992d233d834fbc644&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.mylargescale.com%2F18-live-steam%2F30745-make-your-ruby-shay-forney-run-better-than-new.html&v=1&libId=e405cf28-7b02-4b67-bde4-3a82591a233b&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wegmuller.org%2Fgallery%2Findex.php%2FLarge-Scale-Models%2FRuby-Shay-Valve-fix&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.mylargescale.com%2Fportal.php%3Fpage%3Dactive_topics&title=Make%20your%20Ruby%2FShay%2FForney%20run%20better%20than%20new.%20-%20myLargescale.com%20%3E%20Community%20%3E%20Forums&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wegmuller.org%2Fgallery%2Find...Shay-Valve-fix

Testing to add a photo


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

*link*

Hi Bill,
Don't know what happened but try this link

http://www.wegmuller.org/gallery/index.php/Large-Scale-Models/Ruby-Shay-Valve-fix

Larry


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Larry
That's it
I'll try again


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have several Rubys in my stable and look forward to seeing what you have done, perhaps I will follow your lead.


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## ScottB (Jan 8, 2010)

Very Interesting! I too have a Ruby and I have rotated the eccentrics 180 degrees for better performance. I am going to make this port modification to mine as well. Thanks for posting.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Very Interesting Bill. Ill have to play with a Ruby one day and see the difference. I've got my prototype 1/2" cylinders on my friends Ruby and will look into it. 

Be aware I have come across 2 different valve and valve chest setups in the last 2 years. Seems some of the newer Forney' have a different valve as they are not interchangeable.


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## Steamer91 (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm still a bit new to the hobby, but I'm always perplexed how everyone dings the Ruby for "poor performance". Mine's one of the original-cylinder versions that I built from the kit, and I've had it for 5 years now, and in that time it's ran very well, and on average, pulls 3-4 cars smoothly and powerfully, which is roughly the same as the full-sized locomotives of this type were good for.

I'll admit, I've made a bodge to the valves, ala the Hottman valve-timing procedure to get a bit better performance in forward gear, and timing the valves at all is a bit difficult, but other than this, a goodall valve, and Kadee knuckles fore and aft, mine's still mechanically a stock engine, and she runs like a stabbed rat when she's on form and warmed up after a "wake up" run.

I like the idea of this mod, but personally I'd be afraid I'd bollocks it up, and it really isn't necessary to do in order to get a "good 'un".


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jason
I don't remember exactly but I think the difference is in the length or width of the body. I remember being surprised when the 1/2" kits came with new valves but on further inspection I believe I found a mounting difference. As long as the same valve pistons and valve body are used you should be ok
Steamer91
If I sounded like I was knocking the Ruby, I am sorry, but that was not my intention. Like you said it is a great little engine. If pulling 3 - 4 card is all you need, so be it. The fact that you had to modify the valves just shows that it is not a perfect scenario. I believe that with this mod, the Ruby will run fine in either direction with the valve timing just close. if you look at Test Three and four, the eccentrics on the test engine were just set up per the factory specs by eye balling the set screw positions. It didn't even need air tuning.


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill and Jason ,

I have after 3 hours of work completed the modifications to my Mimi. WOW. What a difference it makes in the operation of the locomotive. It starts better, and runs down to a tick over on the rollers now. My engine has Jason's 1/2 inch cylinders on it , so have the best of both worlds now. I have hope now that my oldest model, with the least run time will become a star performer. ( 7 years old, less than 5 hours run time. ) Thanks guys. 

One other modification I had done earlier was to open the passage in the valve spool. I drilled down the length to open it up. I then polished the passage opening where it came out onto the valve body circumference to allow a smoother flow of steam. When I installed the valve the polished port is turned at 90 degrees away from the valve block opening . This maintains the original dimensions of the valve spool slots. Don't know if it makes a difference, but every little bit helps.

Charles M SA#74


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Billie, Yes they did new valves but they are not needed. They just did that to give the offset of the raised cylinder deck height. When you installed my cylinders that I built you had to bend up the chest to match the new height. I think it was about .050" taller due to the bore and the bolts. The locos with the different valves were Forneys, they are not interchangeable with Ruby/Shay versions.

Id like to play and try out your mods but I only have a new demo Ruby to use, don't want to really play with that one. 

I also had built 2 sets of the new cylinders for 2 people. These are ones that bolted in from the side.

Here is also a photo of the original early and the later bolted on OE cylinders.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I didn't see those new cylinders listed on the website. Do you have a link to them, or is that just a special order item?


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Where would I go to get parts for a Ruby?


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## Steamer91 (Oct 13, 2011)

bille1906 said:


> Jason
> I don't remember exactly but I think the difference is in the length or width of the body. I remember being surprised when the 1/2" kits came with new valves but on further inspection I believe I found a mounting difference. As long as the same valve pistons and valve body are used you should be ok
> Steamer91
> If I sounded like I was knocking the Ruby, I am sorry, but that was not my intention. Like you said it is a great little engine. If pulling 3 - 4 card is all you need, so be it. The fact that you had to modify the valves just shows that it is not a perfect scenario. I believe that with this mod, the Ruby will run fine in either direction with the valve timing just close. if you look at Test Three and four, the eccentrics on the test engine were just set up per the factory specs by eye balling the set screw positions. It didn't even need air tuning.


No worries, mate. Like you say, the Ruby isn't perfect in the engineering department, but I sort of figured that had to do with the fact that they were mass-produced to begin with, and small errors crept into the machining of the cylinders and/or valve ports because the works was cranking out parts so fast and not fine-tuning them. Just an educated guess on my part, I'll admit....

As I wrote, I think it's a brilliant mod, but I'd have to see about getting a spare set of valve ports before trying this myself, but that's purely because I'm pretty green in terms of my mechanical ability (although I am learning), and is not meant as a slight to your idea. 

By the by, anybody know where you can get a new valve section? I hear Accucraft's discontinuing the Ruby 1, although as far as I know you can still get parts for them....


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft e store has the cylinder kit on ebay http://www.ebay.com/itm/ACCUCRAFT-A...267840?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item417f19be80


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Did Bill talk about how he did the ball bearing followers on the eccentrics in some past posting during a build? 

I think this modification should be made a "sticky" as it makes a great improvement in Ruby models operation. 

Charles M SA # 74


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

*eccentrics upgrade*

Hi Charles,

"_Did Bill talk about how he did the ball bearing followers on the eccentrics in some past posting during a build?_" 

Yes he did! Very good about sharing with us all! THANKS Bill!
Larry 


http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/27174-ball-bearing-upgrade-accucraft-eccentrics.html


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
today I worked on Eric's Shay after David had disassembled it. On this loco, the piston valve was 0.095" as expected, but the holes in the valve chest were already 0.066". I opened them up to 0.073" as you recommended. I wonder if earlier Shays/Ruby's had larger port openings. I will check later (in a couple of months) with my Shay, which is much newer than Eric's.
Regards


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Henner and all
Today Ron and I worked on his Ruby which is from a fairly recent kit.
The port holes were .062 so I guess the port hole varies by batch
we tested it out and it pulled seven AMS cars at popoff pressure for a couple of feet and then pooped out
We dropped a car and with six cars it took two minutes to make it around my 20' x 30' oval and needed a slight push over one uneven section
We then did the retrofit
I decided that his valves were tight so we drilled the ports out to .080" and tested it again
To my surprise and delight, it pulled all nine of my AMS cars at good speed, probably 30 seconds for a round trip 
There was some wheel slippage so Ron ran it at a reduced throttle. He plans on adding some shot to the side tanks


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