# Rebuilding garden railroad



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys,
This is a crude drawing of my current layout:









The circles are trees. The single lines are the railroad. I drew the rough property dimensions and the general location of the house, driveway, patio.

We are planning to replace our sewer line, which runs along the back of the house and then diagonally out to the street at the bottom of the sketch. I am thinking about relocating the patio north to closer to the L part of the house. If I did that, I could relay my entire railroad and use the existing track I have to build a two track loop for the safe operation of two trains simultaneously. I'm looking for input from the class for layout ideas. So far, this is what I have come up with:










I have outlined the area that is most likely to be used. The outer loop and interchange track are black and the inner loop is blue. Since these are free hand drawings, they are not really scale by any means. I have one circle of 20' dia, one circle of 16.5' dia, and one circle of 12.5' dia. I have 24 two foot sections, 12 three foot sections and one 5 foot section. Additionally, I have a 10' bridge that can be broken down to two 5' bridges (one is a trestle, the other a steel truss). I have wide radius switches, 2L, 3R. I would need to buy two switches to complete the above. 

One feature I am toying with adding is a sand box at the north end of the layout with a siding for loading and unloading cars. I think this would be fun for Luke and his cousins/siblings and am thinking about mounting sand toys as loading tipples...

For the layout, the general idea is to have the two loops operate independant of one another so that a 2 year old and a 5 year old can run the trains without running trains in to one another. Also, while I would like to add tons of track, I am trying to keep this simple and use the track I have. I would like to be able to cross over from the inside to the outside and using the aristo wide radius turnouts, I am planning a 2' section between the interchange switch and the outer loop on both ends. That works on my current layout and allows safe operation of USA Trains streamliners and close coupled heavyweights. 

Access is key. I am thinking I need some sort of pedestrian bride in to the layout. Possibly an earth ramp with grass would work. Also, for plantings, MB has expressed and interest in having a vegetable garden in this same area. I'd like to accomodate her with that, and think it could be a fun way for us both to enjoy the space. Need to plan access on both the North and South sides. 

Rough dimensions of the space are: North side: 50 East Side: 80 South Side: 15 West Side: 90

The area is sloped slightly from West to East with the lowest point being the red line (roughly the location of the soon to be replaced sewer line). 

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

So you are converting to a Point to point with no continous loop?


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

John,

Sorry, I meant to be clear that I want two continuous loops, but that's the station area-interechange I'd like to have as a part of the layout. From the ends of the black and blue lines, I don't really have much of an idea of what I want to do and am open to suggestions. Two simple loops is possible, but then it might get a little boring, know what I mean? I have enough space that I could probably get one track up and over the other, if one stayed flat. Just interested to see what others might do if they were in my situation.

Mark


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Just for grins look at the new GR mag and look at the Hoot and Holler RR. Double track running with also and upper level. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark 
think outside the box "layout,,NOT". 

think Railroad. spread it out. I think you have a fence so use up 2 ft along it. wide curves, long sidings and easy to mow. 
stand on the roof of your car and give us an overal view.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

RJ,

The GR article is what got me thinking. Thanks for bringing it up, though. A key difference between the two layouts is the way they interchange. I am planning a fairly long interchange track that can als double as a passing siding for the outer loop. 

Marty,

Just for you, I took some pictures of the actual space I have available. As much as I want to have long long runs of track, the reality is that is not possible right now. What I am attempting to do is build a two loop railroad. I would like to be able to run from one line to the other directly. 


Standing on the grass, looking South, the current patio and railroad can be seen. This brick patio will move North (to my Left), opening up that space. Based on my previous experience, I need to have a spot where I can load and unload trains without stepping on the grass. My property line runs along the tree line, parallel to the neighbor's driveway. 









Looking North, my property line is about 5 feet to the left of the shot. We don't really know where exactly the line is, so I am planning to stick close to the trees, which are on my side. This castle is one of the reasons for rebuilding. Luke and his cousins like to play on it. However, it is out of eye sight from inside the house. They also like to play on the hammock (way in the back of the shot, if you look real close), which is inside the North Loop of the current layout. That means crossing tracks, something that was not really planned on the current layout. My plan is to move the castle closer to the hammock. 

The railroad will occupy a lot of this space in this shot. All that stupid grass will go bye bye. I hat mowing that part of the lawn. The sewer line that will be replaced runs along the gravel walkway, and turns toward the camera to run out to the street, so this whole space is going to get torn out anyway. 









Some shots out of the second story window:










In drawing my sketches, I think I didn't take in to account how narrow the space gets. The tree to the left of the castle is about as far as I really want this to go at this time. It will be clearly visible from both streets (I live on a corner) and don't want to invite vandals. 













Another alternative would be to push the trains back in to the treeline more.









I don't really know which direction to go here... I guess I'll just keep thinking about it for now...
Above is the current North Loop. All of this would be removed.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Any chance to modify the inter change track to work with the mentioned layout. i saw it and thought this would be a RR to build. Later RJD


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, 
Rebuilding can be a daunting prospect. Cannot remember now if you mentioend it over lunch or not? It makes sense though. Got to make space for the important things like kids and pets. It's a balancing act that meant for me that I've not set up anything since we moved. I know I'm not going to get anyhitng set up this summer either. Right now I've got enough outdoor projects to keep me busy until snow flies in the fall. Rebuild the swingset and build a deck for the pool. On top of the addition on the house AND the thoughts of a new roof on the garage. 
For you at this point with the new sewer drain going in you've got no choice it sounds like? A good share of the layout will have to be torn up? A prime opportunity to rebuild with an eye towards making it even more friendly for the kds to use. Sounds like that where you are headed? a smaller more manageable layout for now that you can share with Luke and still run what you already own without dominating the whole yard. A winning solution. At least for now. 

Chas


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

RJ,

I am wide open to ideas right now. Since I am probably looking at rebuilding this some time next spring, I am now entering the design phase. I do like that layout in GR. I wrote a longer response, but as I was typing it, I decided to go outside and take some measurements. Since it is about 60 here and beautiful, I decided not to worry so much about what I am going to do next and instead ran some trains. Took a bunch of videos..uploading now...


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chas,

This wasn't part of my plan until a few weeks ago. Only a small part of the existing railroad will have to be removed for the new sewer line (and that's the branch line headed toward the house behind the grill. 

Another thing I am wondering is if I can comandeer the entire side yard. If you take a look at the original picture again, the whole bottom of the picture is nothing but a sea of grass. There are some wild cherry trees not shown, but we've been talking about taking them down anyway. The only thing that gives me pause with that side of the house is the two streets. There is no privacy fence there, so the trains would be wide out in the open, not behind the house, sort of hidden away under a tree line. If you look at that sketch again, imagine a backwards letter C. That's what I picture when I think about my 'dream' layout here. It would return the entire backyard to the kids, and possibly create a natural barrier to the street. All of the buildings for that dream layout would be on the inside part of the C, with the outside being just track probably running under some kind of shrubbery and picture a large mound in the center of the C.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Good, one more shot is needed, climb up the tallest tree and take some shots looking down. 
To be honest i don't like all the ballast build up. looks like it could wash. 
Don't be afraid to do some cuts in your yard. Move that dirt over for fill. Some grades are OK. 

Your on a corner lot, your driveway is behind the house? garage???
I'm drawing up something but need more detail.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty,

The driveway you see is in my neighbor's yard. 

All that stone does wash down. I keep adding to it, there are several layers of 5-8" stone under that part of the layout. 

Just had a meeting with MB about the new patio and also where the railroad will likely go. She put the ki-bosh on a layout in the side yard. 

I will try to get you an overhead shot.


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## shaneclara (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi Mark, 
I am doing a whole rework on my layout. One previous version of my design was 2 independent lines for the same reason, I had a little neighbor girl (5 yrs old) totally obsessed with trains ... bad influence  . Anyway, I had switched off my mainline to a dogleg. The reason I was going to switch instead of totally isolate it was that I am soooo tired of taking cars on and off the track. I'd get the locomotive she wanted to the loop, shitch it offline and she'd be there all day long and I'd run the mainline. 
They have just moved across town this past fall and that plan was no longer necessary but might be an option for you. 
This winters' project is a massive one like what you're looking at doing. I noticed that your property slopes, use it to your advantage and the wife's. To get from outside the line to inside the line for the garden, you might use a small tunnel covered with earth so that section blends in with yard and your track is protected from foot traffic. A nearby water feature like a small pond form like Lowe's has for $35 can help break up some scenery and give you a disappearing transition effect as well as supply water for her garden. 
As far as planning goes, this might help - might not but here it is. I use Microsoft paint. Just like Chas said, I mapped out the important things first, home porch, property line, etc. then it went to the layout. It's really given me a great perspective over last 5 years and when I change the layout, I just use the same bmp and draw over it to see if it will work. When I see it won't work .... I make it work  Here's some pics of our layout, might give you some ideas too, who knows. http://www.flickr.com/photos/shaneclara/


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Shane,

Thanks for the ideas and the link to the photos. Have to check them out.

Later,

Mark


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty,

I climbed up the japanese red maple in the backyard and risked my neck to take this photo. 










Hopefully, that gives you a sense of the bottleneck between the path around the house and the property line. That line is just to the left of the treeline.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tear out the path, it's in the way of the trains! 

ha ha! 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

Actually, maybe I can take that bush out and move it somewhere else, to move the path a little to the left. I may not be able to eliminate the path, but I can think about moving that bush...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I did not say that completely tongue in cheek, easing the bottleneck should make things easier and broader curves. 

Interested to see the progress. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I found it funny that when Marty told you to climb a tree you did.......







Just kidding, Why not just leave it alone for now and enjoy what you have? you said you have fun running on it as is.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick,

I do whatever Marty says. Besides, climbing trees is fun, too. Tortures the dog and her no opposable thumbs. 

The reasons for rebuilding are:

1. Yield more of the back yard for little ones to play. They climb up and over the railroad now and that's not good for anyone.
2. I'd like to have a double track mainline, even if I have limited track available. Fewer, longer trains out. Shorter, more frequent trains IN. On a 2 track loop, I could have 2 trains on each line for a total of 4 trains. Currently the railroad will allow for 2 trains operating at a time. 
3. We have other projects happening here, so I have a new space to work with. 
4. Every once in a while, you have to shake the ant farm.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 23 Mar 2010 01:56 PM 

4. Every once in a while, you have to shake the ant farm. 
That is funny as heck! I want to use that quote!

Chas


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chas,

You are welcome to it!! I think I picked it up in Stephen King's _UNDER THE DOME_ , which is an excellent read, by the way.


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