# Gas fired live steam locomotives



## robtom (Jul 15, 2009)

*Hi guys,*
I have two live steam locomotives. The first is a Beck Helene Zilertall which I have mentioned before. The second is a Roundhouse Anna. Someone told me that the loco's
should only be run on butane gas! Would there be any problems running loco's on a butane/propane mix or propane ? as I find it quite difficult to source pure butane.
Look forward to your help.

Steve


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Most steamers use the mix. I always have. My shay I made uses a Roundhouse boiler/fuel tank and has always been run with the mix. 
I have found the big butane cans at Cabelas. Some find it in oriental stores(none here in central Neb!), you then need an adaptor 
to hook to the tank. Royce sells them on here through his Quissenberry store.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve
In the future you might consider making inquires about live steam in the forum for live steam. Those hobbyists that post there are more likely to respond to you in the live steam section. Jerry's reference will help but there might be someone in your area that is a live steam that could give you more supply information; where are you located?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

No worries with the 70/30 Butane/Propane mix. In fact, if you're running anywhere where it gets remotely cold out (50s or lower) the pure butane really doesn't work all that well. It just can't maintain sufficient pressure to keep the flame going without a warm water bath of such. (That's why they add propane, because it has a higher pressure at lower temps. Can't have your camp stove not work for you first thing in the morning, right?) 

Later, 

K


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

The only real concern would be if you were trying to elevate the fuel's temperature by adding hot water (which is usually not needed anyhow beacuse of that nature of the propane in the mix).


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## msimpson (Jan 5, 2009)

Propane expands dramatically when heated, much more so than butane. Please don't use it, particularly not in an older, possibly weakened engine. (Yours are probably 25-30 years old.) Cheap surgery is more expensive than expensive butane. 

Here is what Roundhouse says on their website: 

Ordinary Butane or Iso-butane gas (as used in gas cigarette lighters) is the preferred fuel, though for economy, the larger canisters as used for blowlamps or camping stoves etc. are better. The larger canisters have an EN417 threaded self sealing valve on top and require a special adapter to couple up to the filler valve on the locomotive. 
Mixed gasses, i.e. Butane with a proportion of Propane mixed in, are available, and may be used on current models (see details below) if straight Butane is unavailable. These come in a variety of mixes ranging from 90/10 to 60/40 with one of the most common being 70/30. The figures refer to the proportions of the mix i.e. 70/30 contains 70% butane and 30% propane. If using mixed gasses, always choose the one with the largest proportion of butane. The addition of propane slightly alters the gasses properties. This can make the burner a little more difficult to light when cold or after filling the gas tank. Always open the regulator very slowly when lighting, and only just sufficient for ignition to take place. Opening too much too soon may extinguish the flame until the burner reaches normal operating temperature. 
Due to the higher storage tank pressure of mixed gasses, they should not be used in the following models. 

(1) All Roundhouse Beck locomotives. 
(2) Early 'Lady Anne', 'Dylan', 'Old Colonial' and 'Charles Pooter' models with external gas firing, 
(3) Early 'Lady Anne' and 'Dylan' models with rectangular gas tank in the right hand side tank. 
(4) Any models with 1" square, vertically mounted gas tank in the cab. 
(5) Early 'S.R. & R.L #24' and 'Fowler' with one piece rectangular gas tank. 

You Anna is a Roundhouse Beck. The Helene is (I think) even older than that. 

There are a number of articles in magazines and on the web giving precise temperature/pressure gradients. I don't remember all of the specifics but you really, really don't want to put propane in a gas-fired engine that is not specifically designed for it. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/11/aft/32367/afv/topic/Default.aspx 

Regards, Mike


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## robtom (Jul 15, 2009)

*Hi Mike,*
Thanks for the information. Would you clariffy If a butane/propane 70/30 mix would be safe. I have no problem with cost but with availibility. As I steam engines with my two boys safety in my main concern.

Thanks again

Steve


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## robtom (Jul 15, 2009)

*Hi Charles,*
thanks for the help.Whilst I love this forum. My experience's are most members are in the united states (no problem with that) had my first holiday there in march. booked up again straight away for next year. My location is tyne and wear north east england. If there are any local members close to me. I would be pleased to hear from you. 

Thanks again

Steve


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