# Train-li R7 switch



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

At the ECLSTS I picked up one of Axel's new R-7 switches in nickel silver. I have an aristo #6 which causes a lot of derailments and I'm going to replace it with the Train Li, and see how it operates.

It's a very high quality switch. The point rails fit very neatly into the rails on either side--extremely smooth, no way a flange will catch it, the transition is about perfect.










The frog has a metal point. Polarity is managed by a reed switch set into the underside of a track tie: much better I think than the microswitches on the other brands. 











Power is carried to the frog via a very heavy bare wire, and it's fused--the two tiny white squares in the middle are fuses











It's really world's better than the Aristo switch. We'll see how it holds up in use. A couple things worry me a little. The back of the circuit board that holds the reed switch is very close to the ground, and it looks to me like damp ground might be a problem. I'll cover the back of the reed switch/PCB with something, maybe that "liquid electrical tape." Second if those fuses ever blow, are they replaceable? As far as I know those are surface mount fuses, not readily available and not easy to replace. Might not be a problem, we'll see.


Also the directions say that you can't enter it in reverse and bump the points over--you have to have the switch pre-set to the direction from which the train is entering, as you would on a 1:1 railroad. Could be an issue on some layouts


All in all this looks to be a really excellent code 332 switch.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

So you're sending the Aristo switch to me?


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice looking switch. If running outdoors do you think it needs to have some of that liquid tape around the underside electronics?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes--I mentioned that in my description. It'll be added before it goes outside


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A small correction, the switch is not nickle silver (which does oxidize somewhat), but nickel plated brass, which in my opinion is superior, nickle does not oxidize from a practical perspective. 

You could also use silicon caulking to seal up things. 

Mike, when you have a chance, can you measure the frog? just go out from the point 3 inches, for example and measure outer rail head to outer rail head. Interested to see what the frog number actually came out to. I know it is sort of a "curved" switch like LGB. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have noticed a few things that may help on this new switch. 
On one of my switches the magnet fell out so I took it apart and reglued it with my hot glue gun. I put it back together but the reed switch did not throw. I had to adjust the magnet position a couple of times in order to get it to work correctly. It appears that the reed switch is very sensitive to the position of the magnet. 

Maybe a larger magnet would make it less sensitive or moving it closer to the reed switch, which is what I ended up doing to get one of mine to work correctly.

I did take apart all of the other switches and glue the magnet in more securely so the magnet would not fall out at a later date, and I also put some locktight on the 2 screws of the throw bar. The last thing was to apply Axels red laquer to the circuit boards. I think that the switches will be good to go now.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I assume the reed switch feeds the point rails and the frog? 

From the pictures it looks as though there might be metal tabs that the point rails slide on to power them. 

Interesting use of a reed switch, they are not known for high power capability. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 29 Mar 2010 09:18 PM 
I assume the reed switch feeds the point rails and the frog? 

From the pictures it looks as though there might be metal tabs that the point rails slide on to power them. 

Interesting use of a reed switch, they are not known for high power capability. 

Regards, Greg 

Talking with Axel at the eclsts that is how he explained it, you can actually here the switch throw as you move the magnet from right to left over it.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 29 Mar 2010 09:18 PM 
I assume the reed switch feeds the point rails and the frog? 

From the pictures it looks as though there might be metal tabs that the point rails slide on to power them. 

Interesting use of a reed switch, they are not known for high power capability. 

Regards, Greg 


Yes, which is why I'm worried about the fuses blowing. I'm sorry to hear about the magnet falling out. . We'll see how it holds up in use


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

I also purchased an R7 to test as a possible replacement for my Aristo #6 switches. My AMS cars regularly derail on the Aristo switches, presumably due to the finer flanges, making operation very annoying. I have not installed the R7 yet. It looks to me like the point rails are fed by metal tabs similar to those on an LGB switch and by screwed on metal jumpers where the point rails pivot. It appears that the reed switch only changes the polarity of the short metal frog. 

Where is the magnet that has been mentioned? I don't see it. Under the PCB? 

On a different, but related subject, how do rail joiners or rail clamps attach to the three rails with screws at the end? You can see one of the screws in the second photo above. Can these screws be removed to accommodate rail joiners and the plastic cut off to accommodate rail clamps? 

Bert


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By blattan on 30 Mar 2010 09:15 AM 
I also purchased an R7 to test as a possible replacement for my Aristo #6 switches. My AMS cars regularly derail on the Aristo switches, presumably due to the finer flanges, making operation very annoying. I have not installed the R7 yet. It looks to me like the point rails are fed by metal tabs similar to those on an LGB switch and by screwed on metal jumpers where the point rails pivot. It appears that the reed switch only changes the polarity of the short metal frog. 

Where is the magnet that has been mentioned? I don't see it. Under the PCB? 

On a different, but related subject, how do rail joiners or rail clamps attach to the three rails with screws at the end? You can see one of the screws in the second photo above. Can these screws be removed to accommodate rail joiners and the plastic cut off to accommodate rail clamps? 

Bert 


I think I missunderstood what Greg was saying, The reed switch does effect the the frog polarity. 

The magnet is mounted in the center of the plastic throw bar that your switch motor attaches to.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Bert, I was scratching my head there for a second. 

I think the reed just does the power to the frog. If I can get a good topside view of the points area, I believe I will see some metal tabs connected to the stock rails, and the points will rest on them, supplying power. 

By the way, you can make the #6 a lot more serviceable, what you do to them depends on the problem you are having. 

First, reposition the guard rails to be about 0.106" from the stock rail. They screw on, so you can move them a bit, you might need to take a bit off the base of the guardrail foot. 

Second, the frog is really messed up, but Axel makes an insert that reduces the flangeway depth at the frog to 3 mm... it's way too deep and the throat is so large that wheels will drop into it. 

Normally, these 2 fixes solve all problems. 

All that notwithstanding, I'm sure the switch from Axle is a superior product, just wanted to give a few tips on the Aristo #6. 

Regards, Greg


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg, 

The first picture above shows the tabs under the points. I took photos of the points and also of the metal jumpers associated with the pivots on the underside. But I can't quickly figure out how to post them... 

Thanks for the suggestions on the Aristo #6. Axel's insert doesn't solve my problem. I'm fairly certain my #6 switches are from the first run with the stubby guard rails, but maybe moving them will help. 

Ron, 

There is no magnet on my switch. When I looked in the box it was there, loose. Looks like the only way to reglue it is to unscrew it from the points. If I hadn't seen this thread... 

Bert


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Glad to help Bert, that is also how I found out about the magnets location,lol. 
I used my hot glue gun to completely cover the magnets on all my switches so that wouldnt happen in the future. 
That may be this great switch's only flaw, but it is easy to fix so no worries.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Only the frog gets power from the reed switch via the 'fuses'. 

When gluing the magnet, watch for the small star washers under the screws. Easy to loose these. 

Do not over tighten the screws, they will strip the plastic threads!!!


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

So it seems that our initial "baby" steps need to make some improvement in the area of the magnet "adhesion" As Ron pointed out (and he was so kind to test it) we will have to use a hot glue gun and make two beads of glue overlapping the ends of the magnet in the hollow space of the throw bar. The previous glue used by Meik's people in Germany does not seem to hold the magnet for a long time in place but the hot glue will. Before re-gluing the magnet it is important to test the operation. Due to soldering tolerances of the reed switch the magnet's ultimate position needs to be tested. You need to hear distinctive clicks (when you go close with your ear to the reed switch) one for engaging and one for releasing.

Yes it is absolutely correct that the reed switch ONLY powers the frog. Point rails and wing rails are powered through solid connections screwed in tabs. The power lead to the frog is a thick (gauge 12?) wire that is soldered from the reed to the circuit board underneath the frog.

On the way to York, we had the opportunity to test these switches in a customer layout and not only in our shop (a customer of ours needed an extension so we installed a cross over from one track to another constructed with two of the R7 switches). The I took two LGB freight cars (2- axle with metal wheels) and pushed them as hard/fast as I could over the two switches from both directions and was actually pleased with the operation - I am always anxious about new products when I hold them in my hand for the first time. 

So far so good with the exception of the glued ion magnets. When we inspected the first shipment we found ourselves the few loose ones in the boxes and re-glued them with Superglue back in. I guess not so super the Superglue. But one thing is certain I can count on our customers to have good ideas as well - and thanks to Ron - The glue gun is the right application.

I am looking forward to further feedback and I am certain that we can make this baby walk/run like a charm. How should I say it - baby is born to good parents but the initial steps might need re-adjustment. We are on it. Keep the comments coming. Nothing is unheard and will be taken care of.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

You guys have memtioned Fuses. Are they readly available if you bow them/ How hard are they to change. 

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you really want to look into this, it would be nice to get the flangeway widths and depths, although I'm pretty sure it will be to the correct goals as other train-li products. 

I would really like to know the frog number. Many people have asked me, but it needs to be measured. All that is needed is a measured width over the "rail heads" at some measured distance from the point of the frog. 

Regards, Greg


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg, 

I understand that the diverging route is a 15 degree curve with a 2400 mm radius. I measured 75 mm from the point of the frog and then measured from the center of the outside straight rail to the center of the outside curved rail and got 112 mm. Does that give you the information you need to calculate an approximate frog angle? 

Bert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Bert, the measurement is across the frog itself, the width of the frog, and the distance from the point of the frog where you measured. 

Regards, Greg


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Does the Reed Switch system prevent the R7 TrainLine 45 Switch from being used as a spring switch?
Same as blowing fuse/ shorting when arriving from the Frog end when thrown wrong??
Is there enough rail 'meat' to place for block isolators at the Frog end???
Will a blown fuse at the Frog stop long wheel base Engines????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It has been mentioned by the manufacturer that you should not run through the switch backwards 

dunno what a block isolator is, but an insulated rail joiner can be fitted 

I really would like confirmation that it is a fuse, it may be a self resettable breakers like a polyswitch/polyfuse 

long wheelbase locos normally do not need a powered frog 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

If you never run short wheel base 2 axle engines of the switch you can simply unsolder the wire that feed the frog the track polarity. The you can use the switch as a spring switch. Alternatively I have on order (right now for testing) a fuse type that blows and is being reset again. If the documentation holds true then this would be ideal to replace the existing fuse with a resetting fuse.

Last not least you would have to use a fine tuned switch drive (stand) that allows you reliably to enter the switch from the point side (unless this is never of any concern for you). Why? Without modification any of the ProDrives (Manual, DC, DCC) have positive reinforcement - meaning the spring load is much stronger then the weight of a regular car can overcome to cut the switch open from behind (spring switch operation). Our tests have shown that engines do - cars below 3 pound+ don't. I personally modified one drive to allow car through, but then I "dirtied" the switch and now the spring load wasn't strong enough to push the switch points to fully engaged position.

This problem is not unique, I have two reversing loops for a long time, therefore non- ProLine switches, and they require regular maintenance for the spring switch to work reliably. If I would never come from the point side I would actually not care (e.g. two sidings merging into a single track) But on my reversing loops it doesn't work. I will actually install switch drives with track impulse to move the switch into the correct position.


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

Let's try the approximate frog number again. The metal part of the frog along the straight leg is 32 mm. The width of the metal part of the frog at its widest point is 6 mm. Does that make the frog about a #5? 

Bert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes! actually exactly 5-1/3 .... .. 5.33333 

Thanks Bert! 

I know a lot of people ask about being able to run through a switch backwards. I fully understand the reasons, but it's hard to make a reliable and quality product that can do everything. I don't take it as a negative. I use air motors on my switches, they give a very high and positive pressure when the switch is thrown. To get this reliability and performance, I don't mind giving up being able to run through them backwards. Just my opinion. 

Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I concur +/- 1 mm so I had it about at 33mm with 6mm width getting me a # 5 1/2 so let's say 5 1/3 - 5 1/2. Sorry I just could get quicker to the switches in the trailer







.

Happy Easter to everybody







(no egg here)


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like this turnout is a bit tight. Need to make it as a wider turnout to make it work. Back to the drawing board Axel. Later RJD


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

No it is not.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Well all i can say is NICE, Axel was kind enough to lone me 2 of these switchs for testing with my bigboy and if they work i can finally get rid of all those Aristo SS switchs and use these. Very nice Axel


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Nick S.:
I ordered 6 R(5.5) ProSwitches from Axel (3 RH & 3 LH NI plated)....... I'm waiting easily for the fixes to appear before shipping.....
I have a MTH Big Boy & 12.5 Dia Minimum Curves on my 22" elevated 327' Curved Ladder Outdoor Layout.
These switches do have a 2400 mm Radius leg(15.7' Diameter)?........ Nick, do you have a 1/32 MTH Big Boy or 1/29 USA Big Boy?? 


The Bigger Big Boy needs a 20' Diameter curve??? See my Profile here for 2 layout Photos...


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Polaris1 on 07 Apr 2010 02:42 PM 
Nick S.:
I ordered 6 R(5.5) ProSwitches from Axel (3 RH & 3 LH NI plated)....... I'm waiting easily for the fixes to appear before shipping.....
I have a MTH Big Boy & 12.5 Dia Minimum Curves on my 22" elevated 327' Curved Ladder Outdoor Layout.
These switches do have a 2400 mm Radius leg(15.7' Diameter)?........ Nick, do you have a 1/32 MTH Big Boy or 1/29 USA Big Boy?? 


The Bigger Big Boy needs a 20' Diameter curve??? See my Profile here for 2 layout Photos...



I have the USA version and i was hoping i could use them for single sidings and squeek by with them, my main switchs will be #10 or12 SS custom made for the main line to keep the Bigboy well happy. It does go thrue the # 6 but i like the bigger is better thing for the mains and Axels switchs for the secondarys and they are made much better than Aristos............ thanks for the tip.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Axle has brought it to my attention that the way I was measuring the frog was a bit off. He was right. I believe the error is small. 

We need to remeasure BOTH switches, since both were measured the same way. 

What is strange is that Bert measured a shorter distance along the frog rail, and Axle measured a longer distance, which seems backwards. 

Anyway, I'm going to use the prototype railroad method, which is easier to do in a way. 

Regards, Greg


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Just talked to Axel T of Train-Li about the R7 TrainLine45 switches. Batch #2 has arrived from Germany with 3 Engineering changes included. The 3 updates include: Insulation on the tie underside which protects the Printed Circuit board, Super glued on reed relay magnets, and a resettable Poly switch to minimize polarity shorts in the Frog area. The Poly switch replaces a 1 shot fuse that was triggered by bad Frog polarity. Hopefully I'll have 3 updated R7 NI plated pairs for install on my elevated Bear Board, Curved Ladder 330' 45 mm layout in Wisc. I'm starting with manual throws.


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Not really to revive a dead thread...
But... does anyone know the radius of R7?
I am looking to replace Aristo wide radius (10' diam) with something a bit wider to accomodate longer locos, like the USA SD70.

I am rebuilding the layout with #6 and larger switches, but in two places need a "regular" radius switch.

So, please, what radius is R7


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not really to revive a dead thread? But you did! 

It seems to be closest to the LGB R5, about 7.5 foot radius. 

Regards, Greg


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07 Aug 2010 11:56 AM 
Not really to revive a dead thread? But you did! 

Bit of a rebel I guess








It was not to resurrect the thread, it was to get an answer to a question regarding these switches. 

I searched all over, but there was no mention of the actual radii, so thank you Greg 
(it was not on your site either, that was one of the first I checked, only went up to R5 there) 

This was the closest thread I found


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just yanking your chain!









I agree most logical place to ask, for sure!









Axel is at the convention in Washington, so maybe when he gets back home he can confirm. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I replaced my 6 #6 switches with the Nickle R7's from Axel and couldn't be happier. I use them for highspeed crossovers and bypasses and can run the longest car and locomotives through them at full speed with Zero issues. I highly reccomend them. 
I also reccomend the ProDrive DCC switches as well. I have 10 of these on all my switches and they have worked outdoors perfectly. 

Ron

Here is some pics and Video of them in action.
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Sorry for the redundancy -See next post.
-Ted


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 08 Aug 2010 12:18 AM 
Shown below is a comparison of the TrainLine 45 "R7" turnout in the middle with Aristo no. 6 on top and Wide Radius on the bottom.










The TrainLine 45 "R7" turnout is close to 12.5 foot diameter from what I have determined as can be seen in the below, middle picture.












The below pictures show the TrainLine R7 turnout placed on top of the Aristo 12.5 foot diameter stainless steel curve track section.










As can be seen, the Train Line R7 is not a direct replacement for the Aristo no. 6 turnout because its diverging path curvature falls somewhere between the no. 6 and the Wide Radius' 10 foot diameter











I hope this is of help,

-Ted


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks Ted
That is also very helpful, looking for something to replace Aristo Wide that is a nudge wider than "wide"


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Nothing to confirm when you have brilliant poeple like Greg guessing right, right out of the box


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, it's REALLY hard to actually "measure" the curvature of a switch. So, I will bow to Axel in this case for sure! 

Are you back from Washington Axel? 

Regards, Greg


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