# Price increases



## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hopefully not a portent of things to come, but, we have received information about a price increase coming from Aristo-Craft, effective 3/01/11. As of this time, there is nothing on the Aristo site regarding this price increase, but, I would say that it will soon be there. The increases, based on a sampling that we have taken, will start and go up from 14%. I would suggest that you get to your local store/dealer and get what you can if you want to beat this price increase. All items that are shipped from Aristo before 3/01/11 will be at the current prices, any items shipped after that date will be billed at the new prices, including backorders. I'm sure that Lewis has thought long and hard about this price increase, particularly in light of the current economy, and I do not envy his having to make this decision.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

New prices as of 3-1-2011, which reflects an increase from their factories in Asia. 

Much of this has to do with the deterioration of the U.S. dollar and rising labor costs there.


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Yes, it does. Sadly, it will be part of the domino effect, with discretional spending taking the biggest hit. People will spend what they have for things they need, and if there is anything left over that they can "waste," they will spend it on the frivolities of life (normally the things they enjoy). With less to spend, there will be less bought, less need for employees, and so on. Effectively our Washington elitists have lost sight of the forest for the trees. It will be interesting to see how many hobby stores, hobby suppliers and hobby manufacturers/importers are around at the end of 2011.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Maybe start buying replacement parts for the things we already have!
They can raise the prices all they want UNLESS they are going to bring out NEW product nothing entices me to buy anything EXCEPT parts!
Only thing that worries me is parts.

Bubba


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Parts and accessories will also be part and parcel of this situation. Less money coming in, less R&D, less new stuff, and on and on. I can't fault businesses trying to make money, but, on the other hand, you can't trade dollars and stay in business. With Uncle Sam as a partner, you have something that has a proven record of inability to run anything correctly.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad I bought my last Eggie when I did, with yet ANOTHER price increase, I'm with Bubba, nothing but parts as needed, this is getting to be TOO expensive a hobby! I worry about the future of it with the ever increasing price of admission.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ha what else is new. No big surprise that prices keep going up. Just makes for less buying for most folks. In this hobby does not take much for a hobby dealer to go out of business. What a shame. Later RJD


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

The secret of success in this hobby for a shop is to be deversified..having other venues of bringing in the money, G scale alone is not enough for the little shop to keep in business...take Ridge Road Station they sell many things. And still offer good pricing for their G scale trains...hard times for toys, AND money for toys!









Bubba


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm, you all act as if G/large scale is the only scale or only hobby going up. Price some three rail O or H0 anymore for some real surprises...


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Sorry not into other scales so not aware of them...G scale all the way.

Bubba


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Okie Dokie Polky!!! They go by the adage, that " If I raise the price, and they want it or need it they will buy!!" Nothing new here and especially for after Jan 1. Aristo, has to make some money to pay for their specials, like the track one on now and next month on track. It will just drive savy buyers to search out the least expensive price point they are willing to pay!! Survival of the fittest and least expensive, kid on the block. If yer too high you lose business to those that aren't!! Regal 

Sellin and not buyin from West Ne. 

Oh by the way this sign will be appropriate for not only gas, but for us trainers too!!! Gas to be $5.00 predicted by 2014!! Yikes


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

We have actually diversified to the point of other interests, the model railroad business is in trouble, for a variety of reasons. If we were to start our business today, we'd probably last about 6 months. After 36 years, we own our building, our inventory, our tools, and we don't owe any money to our jobbers. Admitted, we don't have the staff we used to, but that was one of the consequences (and there are several). I just hope that when we see the light at the end of the tunnel, it's not an onrushing train.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that the USA $ has devalued relative to most all other currencies the Chinese can no longer afford the losses they face due to the rising cost of raw materials and labour. 
The low $ is a good thing for the USA manufacturers, they should once again become competitive. 
But then, what major USA model train manufacturers are there? Pretty well everything is made in China nowadays as a result of the never ending quest to obtain the lowest possible landed cost. 
The purchase price of our "stuff" in the USA has been kept artificially low for many many years. Mainly because the Chinese Yuan has been pegged low to the USA $.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

There is a breaking point for everyone. With gasoline it seemed to be $3.50+ that triggered people to start thinking about grouping errands or not even going out at all. Or maybe even trade in the SUV for a Prius. When the prices hit the peak last time I was living part time on an island and paying $4.90 for the cheap stuff. I drove as little as possible and never was able to fill the ole F150. Supply and demand was in full effect. 
I hope our trains don't go the same way because unlike gas that people need no one really needs trains. I think when the prices do go up even more people will be left wishing they could afford them. In the latest GR mag is the new Bachmann Climax. This fine engine has a MSRP price of $1250 - $1400. I couldn't even think about laying down that kind of money for a train however sweet it is. I just couldn't justify it. Seems the same engine from one of the BIG retailers in the magazine goes for $650- $740 still a tidy sum but a wee bit more affordable but still out of reach for most. Many will have to wait for a huge sale or even finding a used one. Looking at my G stuff I have a considerable collection collected over the past 4 years and I figure that close to 90% of my stuff is preowned. As long as there is a used market I think we will be ok but what will happen to the manufacturers when no one can afford what they are selling? 
It is a sad state when it seems everything we hold dear is being outsourced, over priced and made ultimatley unatainable.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Just like houses, We bought couple of "cheap" rentals that need fixed up. I can handle it. Got them fixed up and appraised, can't sale them now. Won't brake even. I'm a "land lord"... 
When I bought them ,it was about 60% of what I could have gotten for them. If I sale them now, I will have worked for free .

In this hobby you need to KNOW your market (self prices) Keep an eye out for deals, keep an eye out for close outs.
I have found that even if I over buy at a reasonable price.
I can always get my money back if I don't use it , because the prices keep going up.

This is a good topic, I keep thinking of things.

Awhile back I changed to alumin track becuase of cost and shipping and the fact that I am batt/RC I am FREE to use what ever rail I want.
Reguardless of what ever problems I may have with it, it will be fine once I solve the issues.

Once you get past sticker shock in this hobby you learn to play the games and get what you want.

I'm done.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Oddly, oil costs about the same in gold that it did in 1970. I think we've been doing in our dollar.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

between helicopter Bernake, who is creating dollars by the billions and the chinese, who no longer hoard dollars, but spend them all over the world, the dollar can't keep its value. 
i think that most manufacturers and retailers will end with their belly up. 
but the hobby will not end because of this. as was mentioned above, there is always the second-hand market. it will never dry up, because ours is an old men's hobby. 
the one thing that will change is the speed of fullfillment of our wishes. 
waiting patiently for a bargain will replace buying by the dozen. and Altoid boxes, twigs and sticks will be in higher esteem - scrapbuilding will be "the thing" during the next years!


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I'm already looking at picking up a good sized mill and lathe from a local used / scrap machinery shop. As long as it runs true, I don't mind putting in lots of elbow grease to get them goin. And also picking up good sized scraps of metal to do scratch building and parts making. I've been tight on $ but know there's a lot to be said for making your own equipment.


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## White Deer RR (May 15, 2009)

At the risk of setting off a tangential discussion, long term the manufacturers need to make it easy for morons like me to slap a battery into these things, because I don't see stainless steel prices coming down in the future. The cost of track is prohibitive. 

I'm pretty much stuck running on 4 foot diameter curves until the youngest kid outgrows the swing set, and even then negotiations for right of way with She Who Must Be Obeyed may or may not prove fruitful. The only way to break my little bitty railroad free into the Wild, Wild Yard is down a 60 foot fence line and back. That's a lot of other doo-dads, like shorty cars and say even a new Rodgers or something. Ah, the pain of opportunity cost.... 

Silver lining=small is beautiful. But yeah, the cost of conversion to battery becomes more attractive all the time, IMHO.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I had a new customer come in to the shop today that thought the large scale looked like a bargain compared to 0 scale.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

I fully agree.. 

I have had many customers that were in HO and O Scale and can't believe you can get into G scale this cheap.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Here in yUK the rate of Value Added Tax - VAT - went up at midnight to 20%. On most goods and services. On importations, say, from the USA, it works out like this - 

Stateside cost of Item = A$ 
Shipping to UK = B$ 
Insurance of item = C$ 
Import levy on items over $400 = D$ 

The VAT is then assessed by adding up the cost of EVERYTHING = A+B+C+D = Total +20% 

Plus a $12 'handling charge' 

As for merchandise that is already in the store, the hike applies equally to that, too. Needless to spoge, the retailer does not benefit ian nay way from this hike, only the gubmint. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I can tell you it is not the declining dollar value (which is currently stronger then we have seen it in spring and summer). The costs on the world market including Germany have gone up everywhere. Here are some of the real backgrounds:

[*]Cost of raw material (plastics and Metal) have gone by 20% up. The steady increase in track prices is due to the fact that China is aggressively building out their infrastructure and their demand for raw materials has been responsible for the drastic increase of raw material prices. But I have also observed that e.g. the Copper prices were extremely high 4 years ago and they have not reached their levels yet. Prices for plastic have gone up becasue the cost of oil has gone up, but also the demand has gone up, while the production capacity was low due to the economic turmoil. This is similar to airline prices, because airlines reduced capacity and have been flying closer to the magical 100%. There will a a future date when one airline will increase capacity again and others will follow and the hole price/demand spiral will start all over again. So copper mines will increase output again, plastic manufacturers will increase capacity. [*]Due to the economic times manufacturer and suppliers alike had reduced capacity. Middle of last year all in a sudden big orders from industrial companies came in (example automotive industry) which emptied the market e.g. of plastics. Those are the signs that the economy will turn up again. Of course as stated above the current labor shortage and production shortage is immediately answered by a price increase.[*]Due course of price development. I don't know anything which didn't become more expensive over the last 20+ years. Wages go up, hence prices go up. In the long run that seems to be the way of life. I remember my first visit in the US at $1/gallon for gas (of course some of you remember 25cents







)[/list] In another post poeple are even questioning the longevity of our hobby. Our hobby is not going to die because of increased prices - that will lead only to more selective buying (quality over quantity) - hopefully, but what is the real challenge is the lack of the young successors, and I don't mean short term interest at the age of 8 but longer term even through their teens







. For one we need to create more interactive - technology driven - -playfulness compared to trains just running around in circles. Switching yards, loading and unloading stations with real actions, coal mines "producing" coal which will be unloaded from the mine into big cars and transported to power plants







, computer interaction, game challenges. I just read in a German garden railroad magazine about this cool layout with "play cards" that created freight schedules, emergencies,..... just let the fantasy have its way.

A positive trend going forward is that I am seeing and hearing more train infrastructure here in the US again. This is good, this will lead to more interest of imitating life in real layouts.

While unpleasant let's not get bogged down by price increases - they are happening everywhere - and used to happen everywhere (or did we stop driving cars?). Let's look positively into the future and be good role models to the younger generation by creating something that not only peaks their interest - but builds the foundation for the desire to be more involved!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I raised my rates for service. Figured I would get on the bandwagon too 

JJ


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

So J.J., how much do you charge to talk to dogs?








Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 03 Jan 2011 09:37 PM 
I had a new customer come in to the shop today that thought the large scale looked like a bargain compared to 0 scale. 

Yep, if you are buying Lionel or MTH, I've been delving into O but collecting old pre and post-war Marx stuff, and I'm getting away with murder for the prices I'm paying compared to Lionel of the same era, runs the same, just as reliable, but I dont have to deal with as many of the rabid collectors. I think there are more guys 'collecting' the latest releases, hence the insane asking prices for new O stuff, not to mention all the electronic sound and control stuff on new engines driving prices up (just like in G)


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Very well said Axel.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By John J on 04 Jan 2011 08:04 AM 
I raised my rates for service. Figured I would get on the bandwagon too 

JJ 


See J.J. is living proof of the domino effect!! hah LOL no really, once several people see price increases, they figure, whoa pardner, I better jump on this bandwagon if Hermey down the street raises his prices, why should I lose money too!! Domino effect!!

Oh and on track prices will someone please find a way to bend cedar strips into 10-20ft curves please!!! I can run trains in a straight line now, but need to curve em back around again!! Hah Regal


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I seem to be hearing a belief that "no one can afford these prices", but that's not true. It seems that most people pick hobbies just beyond their budget. The cost of this hobby is nothing compared to collecting rare sports cars, for example. Or even more common hobbies like buying $30k boats or $100k motorhomes. And if my budget was 10x what it is, then I'd be into 1-1/2" scale, not G-scale. 

I'm disappointed to hear about the price increases too, especially that they will affect the long awaited Aristo-Craft 2-8-0 and other re-releases (a terrible marketing decision in my opinion... they should have held back the 2 free freight cars deal, kept the previously announced prices, and everyone would be happier!). And yes the price increases will force me to make more difficult decisions. 

But my point is, if the key to long term health of G-scale is getting new people into the hobby, so let's not tell them it's "outrageously expensive"... because it might not be for them. There's always someone who can afford it. And there's always someone getting out of the hobby selling their collection cheap to those of us who are willing to wait for it.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Seeing how the younger generation of the Chinese are demanding the higher wages due them prices will increase so now is the time for the go old companies to come back to the good old USA and make there products. Can't be much worse making here now than over there. Later RJD


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I'll second Axel's financial comments. And also his thoughts about the future of our hobby.

I was an active participant in Amateur radio for twenty years as well as a dealer and manufacturer of a number of ham radio products sold at their shows all over the NorthEast. I had a clear view of that hobby dwindling to a shadow of its old self as the oldtimers drifted off to build the great Heathkit in the sky. It had become an old man's hobby and I saw little effort to make it exciting and technically challenging to young people. I saw different types of ham clubs; their attemtps to make the hobby involving to new people were typified by activities I saw at three hamfests one summer not too many years ago.

Club A - partnered with a local science museum to set aside a space for a few tables where kids of any age could sit down and, with a little guidance, build their own crystal radio. You wouldn't believe how excited they got when they actually heard a local radio station on something they built themselves - and didn't have a battery. And they took the radio home and showed it to their friends.

Club B - Had attendees register for two special prizes. One prize for the oldest licensed ham there; another prize for the youngest licensed ham.

Club C - Had a prize for the oldest licensed ham in attendance.


If we want this hobby to exist, much less grow, it's up to all of us to spread the word. Show 'em what we have and what we do. Get your club to go all out at the local show; not just Tommy on a loop of track. Have open houses, let them know that large scale trains aren't just LGB pufferbellies (not that there's anything wrong with that). Large scale is modern diesels, complex steam engines, container trains, multiple lash-ups, radio control. G scale doesn't have to dwindle and die - unless we let it.

JackM


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack;

My local club does just that at least once each year. We are trying to find ways to do it more often.



















Yours,
David Meashey


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

We can all spread the word but as said prices go up your even going to loose the young folks. Our club spends numerous hrs on the weekend with an open house to our Vines Garden RR and lots of young folks show up with there parents but when you start talking money things change in a heart beat. Later RJD


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

This situation is a fact of life. 
The greater the USA national debt gets and the more diluted money value becomes, because simply printing it does that, the greater unemployment will become. The inhabitants will then have less disposable income to spend on our hobby. 
The available consumers in the market will decrease (already happening), the number of discount dealers will shrivel (already happening), Marginal manufacturers who depend on high turnover to stay afloat will disappear and the hobby will go back to the semi cottage industry it was before the 1980's. 

We will all have to stop living on credit. Surely the GFC should have taught us that. 
But no, we let the crooks (as in the ratings agencies) off the hook and they still run the show. 
Get rid of them and in the long term it may come good. 

The only short term hope y'all have to maintain lower prices, is for China to go off and exploit some other bunch of ultra low paid workers.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

People think first about what the priorties are in life and G scale trains are just not one of them! Weather the costs of necessities of life go up or not G scale trains is not one of those necessities, and will be the first thing cut from a household trying to make ends meet. Higher prices of necessities will CUT into my train slush fund...

Gas going up in price is bad but we will always make the adjustment to make sure we have anything that is needed to support family and life ....no amount of rationalization by ANYBODY will change that fact! 
The only people that will keep purchasing frivolous things, (and any scale trains is just that), are people that have good incomes, if you do not have that you will not spend foolishly, rather thoughtfull purchases, maybe few and far between looking for the best prices shopping around untill you find just that! That is not good for businesses that depend on a steady monthly income.... 
If I was to loose my job tomorrow guess what is the first thing to be cut from my budget...G scale trains. Not to mention the possibility of having to sell some of my higher priced items to fill the gap! Not what I would want to do BUT a necessity.
As long as I can afford to spend money on G scale trains I will, but unless they come out with something thrilling, all I need now is parts and smaller things like that.

I highly doubt that young people OR younger people have money or extra money to burn after the necessities are taken care of..I know when I was younger I did not...making it tough to draw them into the hobby.
I asked my wife why do you see all these OLD geezers driving sports cars...she stated it was because when they were young they could not afford them BUT now because they are older and are comfortable financially they can and do. 

Running trains like real trains, just like live steam..either you like doing that sort of stuff or you don't...trains are meant to go round and round. First thing kids want to do is race them...when they find out they are not for that..they loose interest...either they want to run trains round and round or they don't. Hard to keep them interested. I have found that my grandson would rather push the trains around the rtack rather then use R/C, or track power....when I was his age I liked pushing them around rather then watch them go round and round. 

IMHO
Bubba


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## Ken101Ward (Jan 1, 2010)

What manufactures are gonna take the risk of developing new train technologies in this economic environment? It seems the manufactures
are carefully considering which products to put out, thinking about the now and not the next generations of railroaders. It's going to 
take a miracle for trains to compete with Nintendo, PlayStation, or the boatload of toys and technologies marketed for kids. Trains are going
to be a niche hobby because of the start up cost.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I guess it takes more than just product diversity because Ridge Road Station is, according to what I read on the Public Forum of this site, closing its doors.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By livesteam53 on 03 Jan 2011 10:15 PM 
I fully agree.. 

I have had many customers that were in HO and O Scale and can't believe you can get into G scale this cheap. 

Agreed. I went shopping with a friend and his son to buy some of the Lionel Fastrack. $4.59 for each 10" piece, and it is all steel and plastic, no stainless or brass.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 10 Jan 2011 04:08 AM 
Posted By livesteam53 on 03 Jan 2011 10:15 PM 
I fully agree.. 

I have had many customers that were in HO and O Scale and can't believe you can get into G scale this cheap. 

Agreed. I went shopping with a friend and his son to buy some of the Lionel Fastrack. $4.59 for each 10" piece, and it is all steel and plastic, no stainless or brass. 

Fastcrap? Bah humbug!, I'm using O-27 track and only paying about a buck and a half per piece!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Tubular (dude) O-31 here myself, stuff runs a LOT better on it than Fastrack IMO...


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