# New Aristo-Craft Mallet?



## noela (May 22, 2008)

Considering adding one of the new Aristo-Craft Mallets to the rooster, but have some questions.
1. I know, that in the past, there have been some issues with this loco, and am trying to ascertain if they have all been worked out.
2. One of the first ones I heard of was that the drive wheels were falling off, is anybody familiar with this one? 
3. Another one was the inability to haul long freights (limited power), anything on this?
4. I'm watching with interest a recent post on the fire one of these units experienced lately (one of the new ones), and while one unit doesn't make for problems, I'm following it to see if the problem has been identified.
5. How difficult is it to install an on board battery pack and sound?
6. What is the current draw on the new units? 
Needless to say, any comments and/or direction is greatly appreciated.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have had one for a number of years and I run it a lot.


I have not had any wheel problems with mine. I did have to return my Mikado to Aristo for wheel/axle repair.


As far as pulling power I have pulled as many as 38 cars. It did not have any problems pulling that train. Maximum grade on the layout is 0.6 %.

This past winter I had Stan Cedarleaf help with installing a battery and REVO in a box car. I have had a Phoenix sound system in the tender since I bought it. I chose using a battery car because I am using Lighium iion batteries and I wanted to easily remove the battery from the car for charging. 


It is one of my favorite standard gauge engines. 


Chuck N 


Here is a thread with still pictures and a video (by Scott McDonald) showing the Mallet with 34 cars in tow. The box car behind the tender is the battery/control car. If you watch the video, you will see that it doesn't have any problems in the grade.


Mallet pulling 34 cars 

It is starting up the grade about 30 seconds into the video.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Noel,


1. I know, that in the past, there have been some issues with this loco, and am trying to ascertain if they have all been worked out.
I can't answer this one. Only own the 2004 run. A friend has a new one, no reported issues except he can't hear it when it is running. 

2. One of the first ones I heard of was that the drive wheels were falling off, is anybody familiar with this one? 
I did not experience wheels falling off. I did have a wheel slip on the axle, but I was aware there might have been a problem and watched out for it. I did have a bad gear on one of the gearboxes which Aristo replaced under warranty. 

3. Another one was the inability to haul long freights (limited power), anything on this?
I'm not sure where you heard it doesn't pull long trains. Mine has been spectacular at handling long trains up my rather nasty grades. On the original run, I had no problem installing sound in the tender and then in the locomotive. How long a train, how steep a grade? I did handle a 38 car train on my railroad last year, but that was not typical for me. 20-25 cars would have been more likely. 


4. I'm watching with interest a recent post on the fire one of these units experienced lately (one of the new ones), and while one unit doesn't make for problems, I'm following it to see if the problem has been identified.
Saw that too. Interested in hearing more details. 

5. How difficult is it to install an on board battery pack and sound?
In the other run, the sound went in the tender really easy. I would expect a similar ease of installation for sound in the tender, considering the speaker's already in there. Not sure about the battery, though. 

6. What is the current draw on the new units? 
No ammeter, soory.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By noela on 05 Jul 2011 07:29 AM 
Considering adding one of the new Aristo-Craft Mallets to the rooster, but have some questions.
1. I know, that in the past, there have been some issues with this loco, and am trying to ascertain if they have all been worked out.
2. One of the first ones I heard of was that the drive wheels were falling off, is anybody familiar with this one? 
3. Another one was the inability to haul long freights (limited power), anything on this?
4. I'm watching with interest a recent post on the fire one of these units experienced lately (one of the new ones), and while one unit doesn't make for problems, I'm following it to see if the problem has been identified.
5. How difficult is it to install an on board battery pack and sound?
6. What is the current draw on the new units? 
Needless to say, any comments and/or direction is greatly appreciated.

1. The main issues, as with all Aristo steamers, is the wheels slipping on the tapered axle, which can cause problems ranging from erratic running, to destruction of the valve gear, to stripped gears in the gearboxes.

Have they been worked out? I don't know yet, I have heard rumors about the "new" "bushing", "bearing", and other descriptions of a new solution, but no one has pulled a new loco apart to see what has changed, and more importantly, not enough time has elapsed to see if the problem has been fixed.

I'll be getting my new Consolidation shortly, so, I'll pull mine apart to see what has been changed.

2. Hundreds of people have experienced this problem, and I am VERY familiar with it, right now my Mikado and Mallet are on the repair track waiting to be fixed. I have an extensive writeup on my site. Basically I remove all the "glue" that Aristo used to try to fix the problem and lap the surfaces together to provide a nice, high friction fit.

*[url]http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips-mainmenu-35/aristo-motive-power-mainmenu-72/prime-mover-basics-mainmenu-256* [/url]


3. When running properly, the Mallet is a stump puller, anyone that has one that does not pull has a problem (that can be fixed).

5. Easy, big tender, although it was easier in the previous generation of electrics in my opinion, more room in the tender, easier to put speakers in the boiler. But this is not a big deal.

6. I cannot imagine that the current draw is any different, or the motors are different. It can draw over 3 amps if really heavily loaded, but under light loads, maybe 1.5 to 1.7 amps. (not counting smoke, sound, etc.) Remember that dual motors do not pull twice the amps of a single motor, it's basically the load that causes the amps.


Regards, Greg


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

As for the tender, I put a Phoenix P8, REVO, REVO smoke control board, 6 capacitor board with minimal soldering. The new PnP board has sockets for variable and fixed current for the P8. I prefer the reed switch with magnets for speed control over the varible voltage. The varible is still required to detemine direction. The tender has a new speaker with paper diaphram, much much larger magnet. I have run mine on battery or track current just by moving the switch from batt to track, no wiring issues. When running on battery a battery car was used. Ran it across a #6 turnout with no power to frog and got no hesitation at slow speed. It seams to run smoother than the old model, particulary the side rods and linkage.

I also have two older models, both with Vandy tenders. Has slite one wheel slip with the B&O and major wheel slippage with the GN. The GN has been repaired by AC and the B&O is in AC shop at this time. Both are being repaired under warrantee. It took about 3 years for the wheel problem to occur on my units. No other problems. My grand kids and their friends probly have as much run time on them as me. Three of my grand kids ran the new GN mallet Sunday for a few hours, no problems.

AC's Mallet with a Phoenix system is a great pair and is my favorite train to run................Jim


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

Video link of Mallet pulling 32 2bay hopper with metal wheels. Advance video to about 2 minutes...............Jim


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuOb8I1kqcQ


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## Adam Anderson (Apr 21, 2011)

Noel,

The Aristocraft Mallet is the biggest piece of junk out there, My 2 broke 4 times and still hasnt been fixed rite and the new mallet has been caught ketching on fire.


I guess when Lewis Polk says he delivers, you need to take it with a grain of salt. I guess burning down your house with another one of his defective products is ok with him and his 


fanboys. I guess i Promised and i deliverd didnt include burning down your house for those of us that run indoors. I'd take a pass if i were you.


Adam


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

Nickoid


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I have great luck with both of my Mallets. Sounds like you need to rvisit AC and resolve the problem which they will do. The new one runs very well. Yep some one burned one up but AC is standing behind it and will provide him with a new one. Down side is we will never here what the real cause of why the unit failed. Basically it's probably some folks will exploit why it failed. Murphy's law always comes in to play and some times things fail. Later RJD


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Adam,

The reported burned up unit must have been an anomoly. There have been no other reported fires in mallets (and I am certain that they would be reported). I've heard of other brands of locomotives burning up, and have first hand experience with a 44-tonner catching on fire. I got a "Meh" response over the phone from the manufacturer and had to pay for replacement parts.


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## Adam Anderson (Apr 21, 2011)

I agree Mark, but then again Aristocraft hasn't sold to many of these new units yet to know.

My dealer says he sold (ONE ) of the newer units since they've been out so time will tell i guess.


I'm thinking these are going to be shelve Queens just like the older units till they cut the price 

in half to move them out. 


Adam


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Adam, I know they sold more than one Mallet at the NGRC. I wanted a UP one but I didn't make up my mind until they all sold (and several dealers had them). Now I have one on order so it should arrive any day. However I agree with you that they may have to cut the price to keep selling them. Although it's amazing how expensive all our products have become. When you consider that we're paying over $100 for some freight cars now the $550-$600 range for a locomotive doesn't seem so bad.


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## Adam Anderson (Apr 21, 2011)

Well Ben, Time will tell i guess.


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

Adm, 
Was at a club meeting this weekend discussing burning locos. One of the people in the discussion had a $1000 plus LGB ELok burn and melt. At least LGB replaced his unit like Aristo is doing for the owner who's loco burned. 
LAO


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What is of some interest is that the new Mallet has much less "electronics" in the loco itself, so I'm guessing it was a voltage regulator near the cab. 

There are 6 wires between the tender and cab. Since 2 must be to track pickups, and 2 must be to the motors, then the 2 left must service both the smoke unit (which runs at track voltage), and lights (which most likely are leds). 

So I am speculating on what it is, but given no serious flaws in the design, the locomotive electrics should be MORE reliable in the new version. 

There's ample examples of Aristo voltage regulators going nuts, and killing themselves, since Aristo usually uses that little microprocessor instead of a 3 terminal regulator IC. 

Just speculation, I'm not holding my breath to learn what really happened. 

Regards, Greg


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

"and the new mallet has been caught ketching on fire."

It been determined that the reference to this event was no fault of Aristo.................Jim


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Does anyone remember the black boxed pacifics?

My very first Aristocraft was one of these. They had NO electronics. Pickups, wires to motor, smoke unit, and lights..so why do we NOW need all these electronics. That seem to be getting in the way?

Leds should have resistors wired in, my idea is to GET RID of the "junk" they place inside them, since now it seems it would be easier to "gut" them out with the electronics being inside the tenders.

As far as directional lighting if you use an R/C, the selected unit would be the polarity switch for forward and backward lighting, hense being able to remove the electronics. The Revo could still be hard wired in like with the OLD Mini-onboard.
The Malletts I have I have either removed or jumped the poly fuses so the "electronics" will not shut down interupting running of the engine, without any prooblems. Not too sure about the DCC world...

And I still have that "black boxed" engine and it runs and smokes fine..without all those so-called improvements.

Seems the more you try to improve, the more you create unforseen potential problems.

But there is also NOTHING wrong with the Aristo product(s)! I own many.

Or am I missing something.


Bubba


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Bubba, I don't remember black boxed pacifics, but I've often wondered also why so many electronics are necessary in locomotives. I have an old USA Trains 44 Toner someone gave me that was falling apart and gutted so I rewired the track leads directly to the motor blocks and it works just fine, with no fancy electronics. I don't have lighting wired up, but if I ever get a DCC board for it I will wire up the lighting. But I often wonder too if I'm missing something important.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well its like buying a new car. You get all the up dates and gadgets same for the newer locos. What the younger Generation wants. As for the fire in the new Mike it was caused by a sound board. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, the person starting the thread said Phoenix told him it was the sound board. 

Aristo says that the cause has not been determined, and sent information to Phoenix and locked the thread because Phoenix cannot come on the forum and answer to this. 

Good ethics... that is playing fair. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have two Mallets 1 old than has run perfectly for 2 years now and I just got the new version when it was released also no problems at all.
For the price of this engine $550 with 2 free freight cars, which average about 70 bucks or so each, you just can't beat it.

Here is a quote from the guy whose New Mallet caught fire just incase "anyone" has any further doubts;

Many remember my post of a fire with my new Mallet.
Lewis took full responsibility for problem immediately.
My replacement was on my doorstep 2 DAYS after receipt of burned Mallet.
An immediate investigation as to cause was intiated.
I received many real time emails from Lewis during the investigation. explaining possible causes and then testing/checking the hypthesis to see if that was the cause, ruling that one out and moving to the next. This DISSPELLED any notion that all is done behind closed doors.
The cause of the fire WAS NOT due to any fault in the Mallet.
It was due to an incompatible and/or defective Phoenix P8 sound board. The fire source was concurred by John Weaver (Phoenix Sound) in emails to me.
I am suggesting Lewis did not publish the fault as he felt the need for courtesy to other manufacturers.

I do not know what else a manufacturer could possibly do, except to visit have a beer while watching my Mallet. 


Sounds like pretty great customer service to me, AND its for five years not one









Ron


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 21 Jul 2011 03:25 PM 


I am suggesting Lewis did not publish the fault as he felt the need for courtesy to other manufacturers.

Ron
WOW! This is what we need more of! Way to go Lewis!!!!

If only we could all keep this in mind!


Im not say'in...I'm just say'in!









Bubba


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

AND


*Here is the next post on that *same [/b]thread from Lewis Polk:[/b]

"Dear Tom,

I'm going to lock this post as the company mentioned cannot answer here. We have given them test samples for them to work on themselves and I will let you know about their tests later.[/b]

All the best,
Lewis Polk" 

I think we should allow Phoenix to have a say, and agree with Lewis.

Let's not all start thumping our chests just yet. If all the Phoenix systems can catch on fire, it's not good news either!

Greg


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## Johnn (Jan 5, 2010)

Your info incorrect.
Heres the post you should have read

Johnn..






Dear Tom,

I'm going to lock this post as the company mentioned cannot answer here. We have given them test samples for them to work on themselves and I will let you know about their tests later.

All the best,
Lewis Polk


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And again, I applaud Aristo and Lewis for that statement... now, let's not misquote him... or misrepresent this as Phoenix's fault until everyone has had a chance to address it. Some people at Phoenix were surprised that people were blaming them for a fire. 

Greg


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## Johnn (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes i guess they were informed today as to the lies posted on that site and i guess Legal action could be forth rite.

Johnn


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I do know 1 thing for sure. I have delt with Phoenix for quite sometime. And if there is an issue they will make it right..and I say if...their customer service is one of the best!!!

Bubba


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Jul 2011 03:40 PM 
AND


*Here is the next post on that *same [/b]thread from Lewis Polk:[/b]

"Dear Tom,

I'm going to lock this post as the company mentioned cannot answer here. We have given them test samples for them to work on themselves and I will let you know about their tests later.[/b]

All the best,
Lewis Polk" 

I think we should allow Phoenix to have a say, and agree with Lewis.

Let's not all start thumping our chests just yet. If all the Phoenix systems can catch on fire, it's not good news either!

Greg 



I agree things happen and it could be any number of things that caused it. 
I wasn't bashing phoenix in anyway, was more of a counter to the guy that keeps saying don't buy one it will burn your house down









Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Madstang on 21 Jul 2011 03:58 PM 
I do know 1 thing for sure. I have delt with Phoenix for quite sometime. And if there is an issue they will make it right..and I say if...their customer service is one of the best!!!

Bubba


agreed Bubba great products and great customer service, 
I'm sure that the parties will figure out what happened and fix it if it was a defect that caused this to happen.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Absolutely Ron, and the upshot of my first post on this thread was basically positive, except that I could not confirm that the new wheel attachment system fixed the slippage problem. 

Well, update, there is definitely something very different on how the wheels attach now, and there is a "serrated" bushing pressed into the wheels. That part, from looking at the size and the "teeth" would never slip in the wheel. Never. I do want to investigate how this bushing connects to the axle, but if Aristo has done as good a job there, then it's got to be a dramatic improvement, and looks to completely cure the problems in the earlier drives. 

Now if I could only get the @#$#@ screw out of the wheel... it's in really tight, may have to try the Torby Torch Technique on the screw. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

There's something weird about the burned up mallet. The sound board was reported as the likely culprit and it was near the aristo board. If this was a NEW mallet, that's all in the tender, from the factory. What is unknown and strange is the locomotive is the reported burned item. Not the tender. So, the question becomes was this a complete modification and that may have led to the fire? It appears to be authentic as Lewis keeps posting about it, so I'm not saying it didn't happen. But, I have some question about this being a new or old Mallet. Did any of you guys catch that aspect?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes Mark, you need to read all the posts on the Aristo forum, and I think one may be deleted by now. 

The guy that reported this has changed the story a couple of times... originally he said the loco caught fire... people thought that was strange, very little electronics there... 

Later he says the tender caught fire, and the fire jumped to the loco. 

Too many changes to the story. Will wait for the official and final information. Will also contact Phoenix again after this to hear their side too. Very weird. 

If I was a betting man, it would be an operator mistake in the wiring. Phoenix has been out there too long to all of a sudden have a problem. 

The user also stated that the loco continued to respond to control after the fire was under way, that would indicate it was not the revolution, or the wiring to supply it. 

There could be a design flaw or a wiring error in the new mallet, but since this has not happened to anyone else, I would suspect a factory wiring error, or wiring error from adding the sound unit. 

Regards, Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A month later and no news on any forum. 

The last I heard, the owner of the burned up loco claims that Phoenix says it's their fault, and posted a nasty message because I did not believe him, I wanted to wait to hear from Phoenix officially. 

Oh well, as a friend said, we'll never get to the bottom of this one... but it's a rare occurrence for sure, although the owner also told me that this is a known problem with Phoenix. 

Geg


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