# My 2-4-0 LGB Steamer doesn't smoke



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Everyone

Today I've got the train running around under the bottom of the Christmas Tree, but cannot get it to put out any smoke.

I've read the directions but they are not clear about where to add the fluid or how to know when the reservoir is half full as they say that will allow the best results.

I added three drops down the stack but get nothing. 
The switch is set in the 4th position

Any help would be appreciated.

Randy


----------



## Sesh1975 (Aug 25, 2008)

The smoker might be no good anymore. It happens. You can remove the unit and test it with a multimeter. You can replace them easily enough.


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

How do you remove the unit? 

Do I need to cut the wires off to test?


----------



## Sesh1975 (Aug 25, 2008)

You shouldnt need to cut any wires. You will need to find the screws that are holding the body on and undo them. Im trying to find the parts sheet for that engine but cant find it so far. But you want to start by testing the wires to see if your even getting power to the smoke unit. Once you have determined if you are then you will need to find a replacement part and replace it. I will try and find the parts sheet for you. Someone else on here might have it too. Hopefully they will chime in.


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I found a sight that listed 15 drops as a good starting point, so I put 10 drops in figuring 'd put 3 in this morning and the smoke started lazily rolling out. Nothing like my American Flyer, but some smoke. But after about 10 revolutions around the 4 foot circle and thesmoke quit. So now I don't know how longthis engine should smoke but I would think it would last more than a few short minutes. A couple more drops and the smoke started back up but again quit after just a few trips around. Maybe 15 drops isn't enough?


----------



## Sesh1975 (Aug 25, 2008)

K well your smoke unit is working. I have an older LGB engine and it takes a bunch of oil to get it started. The other thing about the older LGB's is that they like a bit more voltage to have the smoke work properly. If you have a small oval or circle your probably not turning the throttle up very far and therefore your not getting the ideal voltage. Give that a shot too.


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Sesh

I think I'll put 15 more drops in it and see how it does. At worst it will have to evaporate off if I put too much in.

Randy


----------



## Sesh1975 (Aug 25, 2008)

Good luck!


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

(written before you mentioned its working however....)


ok lets slow down before you start cutting wires or anything


there is no trick to the units -often they work or they dont-read on please


first -empty the smoke stack by turning over the engine-(you can disconnect the tender-it does not need to be connected for this test)


secondly remove the small round plastic disc with a hole at the top of the stack-this is a guard and is not necessary except to protect tiny fingers from 900F elements--do this gently -you can either gently pry it off from the outside edge-- gently or youll mar the edge of the stack  -not a big deal but just so you know


eyeball the bottom of the smoke unit when its empty-use a flashlight if you need-half fll is optimum for smoke production and longevity of smoke


add five drops of fluid-start with this for the time being-smoke units work with varying amounts of fluid-even 50-75% full-but it will reduce output until the fluid level drops from evaporation-just five drops should work quite well to start


second-smoke units need a bit of voltage to operate-about 10-so if youre running very slowly they may not smoke-


the manual will show you the switch positions for the engine-its in the cab-the positions are: 0 for off; 1 for smoke and lights no motor; 2 smoke lights motor-3 for smoke lights motor and sound (if you have-otherwise 3 will function the same as 2)


the first and easiest way to check is to switch the engine to position 1 -smoke and lights -no motor-put the throttle to full - the unit should smoke in about 15 seconds at the most-obviously the lights will be on and the engine will stand still if youve correctly selected the "1"  position-


note that constantly over filling the unit acts as a heat sink and the smoke oil cant evaporate-the oil can get very hot-in some cases constantly overfilling and running has resulted in melting of plastic


i have the exact  type of lgb engine you have-mine is a sound version -mine smokes profusely-however-some times the LGB Seuthe smoke units simply vary-i have a few new engines that simply dont smoke as well as others and one that smokes dismally-only a wisp at best-i attribute this to tolearacnes in manufacturing-the center portion -the heating element of the smoke unit-is very delicate -it is a hollow tube with a heater in the center-it is fed fulid by a tiny tiny slit in the base of the center tub around element- dont monkey with it


if your unit is not working with full voltage as described above -then it unfortuantely needs to be replaced-they are pricey -massoth sells them ( i believe they are simply re-packaged Seuthe units- ) and you can get one from watts train shop-about $32


to replace -the 'correct' way is to disassemble the engine body from the chassis-unplug the smoke leads from the board and plug in the new one-this may be your only option as i have noticed that the chinese built engines sometimes have very short electrical wire leads-there are no issues with matching the wires-the unit has no polarity issues-the unit has a black and an white wire


 


the easier way and just as effective, is to gently extract the smoke unit from the stack-gently remove the small smoke guard on the top of the stack (little black funnel shaped opening-removing this may improve smoking!!!! (older LGB engines were not fitted with them at all-they are simply a new addition for child protection- i always remove them-they are simply a guard for little fingers) 


gently remove the unit by using a needle pliers to pull the center stem -it should come right out-they are not glued in and are designed for replacement--if so-then simply cut the leads and splice in the new leads-be sure to either use shrink tubing to insulate the wires or cut uneven lengths and offset the splice-wrap with electricians tape (you dont want any shorts against thr electrical board inside-stuff it gently back into the stack-(part way and test as above-if it works -all the way in)  you should be good to go-imho no need to replace the black guard insert unless you have toddlers


 


important note for LGB engines of all types and disassembly- all procedures are gentle-most items fit beautifully and DO NOT need pressure-there are very few exceptions 


-if you need pressure-i have almost always found i do not fully understand how the thing is put together and i have missed something


these are not snap together and are designed for easy assembly by line workers-sometimes things are complex-sometimes things are interlocked or there are hidden screws-or you need to remove something to get to a screw, latching peice etc-do not force things -the plastic is very strong -but with enough force it can break and is very  very difficult to re glue efectively due to its composition


-work methodically and without interuption so you can remember where everything goes 


do not open the gear box unless you know how to and know how to re-quarter the wheels-


 


hope this helps-now youre an expert


----------



## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

STEVE 
(do not open the gear box unless you know how to and know how to re-quarter the wheels-) 

I need these instructions please! A gear stripped in my buddies Mikado and one of the side arms broke! I had some machined out of alluminum (beautiful) and he fixed the gear. He's running it without the side arm until I can get one to him. It will need synchronized...help!


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the info Steve


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Please note that the 2-4-0 engine has a smoke unit with black and white wires. This means it is a 5 volt unit. 

LGB runs many of these at 6 volts to get better smoke. 

So as long as 9 volts is on the rails, these units will have all the power necessary to operate. 

Older engines had 18 volt units and needed higher track voltage to smoke. These wires were yellow and brown.


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Dan while you are technically correct-having watched the voltage meter -many of my lgb 5 v type engines will not smoke without more voltage than say -5 or 6 -often it is 9-10 -


i find this to be the case on the chinese forney-supposedly with constant lighting 5 v -so its flying before it smokes and lights are at full brightness- i presume the board has far less electroincs than its german counterparts and as such is more efficient 


the german forneys -both of mine sound, are very different they smoke well when barely moving 


-sound equipped non mts engines-and others-i dont know why but there is a variation in smoking voltages-probably the configuration of the electrical boards


i have one older 20801 the harz 2-6-2 -in superb condition and with little run time-it wont even move until it has 10 volts-but will stand and light and smoke-(possibly the older LGB 'switching' board-


i have a spremberger that wont smoke at 12 volts-merely a wisp


yet i have the earlier black version 0-4-0 of the same engine-which smokes hugely


the last version porters with built in decoder will smoke and light before they move


my chinese sound 2-4-0 smokes at very low speed-cant recall voltage





they seem to vary a lot


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

regarding quartering


well my best and simplest advice is to line up the attachment points for the rods on one side, ie 12 o clock-or 6 oclock- (what ever you choose) -


lay it upside down in it cradle -and carefully align the rod attachment points -so that each one is precisely aligned at 12 oclock


 


-i do this by eye-


close up the box


then attach the rods and run-if theres any lurching you have a bind-you need to look and try to see it and 


you will need to be prepared to re-do until perfect-it can be time consuming and frustrating (not so much with lgb i have found) 


-as in some cases being off by one tooth can cause very slight binding-thats why the lgb rods often have an oval in the rod where the screw pasess through to allow for some play in this regard-test both directions


i have found that sometimes the older lgb engines may have issues when using newer lgb parts-maybe a slight difference in gear-or gears for one style gear box-say the old clamshells versus the d types-the newer parts wont work well with older parts and the entire set must be changed out-i had this problem with one older engine and even with entirely new parts it would not stay in quarter but slipped-had to send it to LGB 


you might want to search this topci here on the forum and outside too for explanatory pics if my explanantion wasnt crystal clear


----------

