# 1st post. Seeking advice



## Bill H. (Nov 5, 2012)

Greetings, all! 

Having been an "HO SCALE" modeler for years, an upcoming relocation allows consideration of a scale change. Have long admired the large scales, but lacked sufficient room. That is about to change.

I am, however, confused as G SCALE seems to be inclusive of anything from 1:20 - 1:32. ?????

I am thinking of a Bachmann 4-6-0, (91607), as first purchase. Advice?

Any brands/items to avoid?

Power recommendations for long term? I like DCC / sound.

Did a lot of hand laid track and turnouts in HO. Feasible in G? Rail supplier?

G scale exclusive publications?

This will do it for now, but rest assured, I'll have more to ask. LOL.

Thanks in advance.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

First, Welcome! 

Next the scale thing... here's a brief explanation: 
http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/gauge.html 

Third, WHICH Bachmann 4-6-0? There have been 6 generations of the things. The later ones are great, the earliest ones.... not so much. The Big Haulers are all nominally 1:22.5 scale 

Yes, you can handlay track in Gauge 1, Try Train-Li for the fixins A table saw with a rip fence and redwood boards is the most cost effective (if tedious) way to make ties

Garden Railways from Kalmbach is large scale specific, but if you like building stuff Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette has a lot more "meat n potatoes" that can be rescaled to work


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Bill, 

It will be a big change going to G-scale, but easier on eyes and hands as we get older!! hehe, & not admitting anything here. No, not at all!! 

Most of us started in smaller scales, but grew U P!! 

How much area - land room do you have now?!! Hand laid works, is far less costly and does obviously take more time! How large of a layout do you have in mind, now and for later,, B-mann Annie to start, but what follows after that!! What size switches are you interested in building? Kits are available also - just add ties and spikes, I use a custom switch for My layout, The DMS Ry. see My thread at... http://dmsry.blogspot.com/ 
it comes back to My thread here... 

Good luck! As always - Have fun!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome Bill! 

Lots of good advice here on MLS. I like the Bachmann steam engines (electric, track powered) which I think are the best bang for the buck (at least for the few bucks I can spend on my hobby.) 

Best, 
TJ


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Addition to the other post: I really, really don't like telling folks "don't buy this" -- Because all too often personal opinions get involved over actual truth. 

There are a few factual exceptions... The first battery op Big Hauler sets (the first track powered weren't a whole lot better, either), the Bachmann set transformers (just HO/N ones with a G on the case) and sheetmetal track (OK indoors, will last about a month outside) are, for the most part, total crapola. The Lionel battery op large scale stuff is pretty cheesy (about the same as New Bright or Scientific Toys, which is a shame), and Aristo-Craft's quality control on the low price items can be hit or miss. The truth is, EVERY manufacturer has made some gems, and some turkeys.... and sometimes you can't tell which you've got until you put it on the track. 

My personal opinion only; The old 4 digit LGB 0-4-0s with the clamshell motor bricks and metal siderods (Stainz variants)-especially the 2017/2015 with power tender are as close to bulletproof as anything we have in this hobby. You CAN kill them, but you really have to work at it. - the downsides are they are now 30+ years old, and even the "Americanized" versions are still Euro outline. 
The best newer production bang for the buck is the 5th and 6th Generation Annie/Big Hauler. (Look for the offset gear blister and rubber lubrication plug on the bottom) - The main difference between an "anniversary edition" or Annie and a regular 5th or 6th generation "Big Hauler" from a set is the trim level.... the driveline is the same. 

Beyond that, it's easier to answer specific questions


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## Bill H. (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks for replies.

1st locomotive I'm considering is BACHMANN 4 6 0, unlettered, e1607. Anniversary edition with metal gears.

Will have approx 1800 sf to use, indoors and several outside acres available should I "need" it.

Time frame, mid 1930's or so.

Planning also for a "Thomas & Friends" area for grandson.

Everything in planning stages for a while yet.

Thanks again!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to the forum Bill. Lots of good help here so pick there brains. As for down the road and DCC I would use the newer QSI Titan boards as they are a decoder plus have sound and are programmable. Choice of power system, I'd read up on whats available. My preference is NCE. Later RJD


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Bill 

LOTS of answers are dependent on your geographic location... if you move outside. You need to think about a couple of things in advance, since the costs are somewhat higher than H0. Are you wanting stuff that is just "visually compatible" and not necessarily "true scale"? Are you looking for modelling narrow gauge, or standard gauge, or "it floats my boat"? Is the track there just as a guide-way for the trains, or is the track going to be a model too? 

Are you an "out of the box, on to the track", a kit basher, or a kit builder/scratch builder? 

If we have a sense of what phase on modeling you are in, or what your focus is, the MLS crowd can help provide much food for thought. Without this information, you will be inundated with "this is the answer" based on the personal experienced, interests, and prejudices of the posters. Much will be chaff, and a few grains will slip through. 

Your secrets are safe with us. 

As my moniker implies, I am personally a scale modeller who values fidelity to prototype and PREFERS 1:20.3 for 3 ft, 1:32 for 56.5", 1:22.5 for meter gauge, and 7/8in/ft for 2 ft. That does not preclude us from owning 1:29 American standard gauge and all the other variants. 

Welcome to MLS... Ask away!!!


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## Colormepearl (Jan 25, 2009)

Mik, In reading the thread you responded to, since you seem to know more about Bachmann, a subject that I have been recently investigating, than anyone I have conversed with to date. I have had a lot of 4-6-0 Big Haulers when I first started G scale, some 20+ years ago, and consider them all fairly good looking junk. However, I am, once again thinking about purchasing a newer type Bachmann. I find that no one yet, is really clear about the differences from the original Big Haulers, the Anne and the different upgrades of the Spectrum, and I can not find any specifics on how to tell the differences in some, between the Anne and the Spectrum. You mentioned something that I had never heard of, "an offset gear blister, and rubber lubrication plug". The reason I am considering a Bachmann is I fell in love with the looks of their "Spectrum" Baldwin Industrial 2-6-0 Mogul. There is one listed on ebay right now, as such, but I don't think it is a Spectrum. Did they do the upgrades on this model, like the lubrication plug and gear bliste, and are any of the Bachmanns metal gear drive now. If you get a chance, could you check listing number 281012435654 and see what your thoughts are?
Thanks, Ron


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## Colormepearl (Jan 25, 2009)

*Mik, In reading the thread you responded to, since you seem to know more about Bachmann, a subject that I have been recently investigating, than anyone I have conversed with to date. I have had a lot of 4-6-0 Big Haulers when I first started G scale, some 20+ years ago, and consider them all fairly good looking junk. However, I am, once again thinking about purchasing a newer type Bachmann. I find that no one yet, is really clear about the differences from the original Big Haulers, the Anne and the different upgrades of the Spectrum, and I can not find any specifics on how to tell the differences in some, between the Anne and the Spectrum. You mentioned something that I had never heard of, "an offset gear blister, and rubber lubrication plug". The reason I am considering a Bachmann is I fell in love with the looks of their "Spectrum" Baldwin Industrial 2-6-0 Mogul. There is one listed on Ebay right now, as such, but I don't think it is a Spectrum. Did they do the upgrades on this model, like the lubrication plug and gear blister, and are any of the Bachmanns metal gear drive now. If you get a chance, could you check listing number 281012435654 and see what your thoughts are?
Thanks, Ron
*


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, George Shreyer's page is the most definitive I've seen on the various incarnations of Big Haulers. the rest I've picked up over the years... mostly from guys here on the boards. I also had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd gen big hauler before I stayed away from them for a loong time. But I have a 5th gen drive here and it's pretty nice. The Annies are just bug maulers with some extra piping and metal siderods to justify the extra $$. 

The Mining Mogul (or Indie) OTOH is a completely different beast than the Bug Maulers. It was a mongrel from the word go. They started with the older 2-4-2 Hawaii #5 shell and stuck a 6 coupled drive under it. The original Columbia drive was made of cheese, so they made this nice, rather stout drive in the Mogul revamp... Then they took all the weight out of the boiler to fit a circuit board - ensuring it still couldn't pull it's own shadow anyway. B'mann recently released a new(er) version... I haven't gotten my paws on one yet mostly because I'm cheap/broke/frugal


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Welcome. I think you will really enjoy the large scales and the challenge of being outside operating trains. I started with a LGB starter set, American style engine with sound, tender, 2 flats a caboose and a loop of track also a 1 amp power supply which was good for the 125' of track I went to when I first stepped outside. In the long run you will probably want a 10 amp with some type of walk around control like a train engineer or the new Revolution. It is fun to follow your trains along the tracks. 
For track I would suggest sectional either Aristo or USAT which comes in many lengths and radii andat code 332 very robust if anyone or anything should step on it. Code 250 looks more "real" but I like the 332 adn I think it is more available. 
For reading you cannot go wrong with Garden Railways Magazine and forum websites like this one. Kalmbach the publishers of most RR magazines print books as well which will give you lots of ideas in any scale. 
When starting I would stick to electric powered engines since you cna run them right out of the box. You can explore battery adn live steam later. If you like steam outline engines the newer Bachmann lineup is great and dependable. For Diesel I like USAT and Aristo Craft. 
When planning your layout it is easier to maintain and easier to view a layout that is built up off the ground. Guys achieve this in many ways with bench work, building walls out of wood and stone or taking advantage of a naturally sloping yard like I did. It all depends on where you want you train to go and when working with the land you will need to do some engineering to keep your grades to an acceptable percentage. 
To start your collection / adventure look to the classifieds right here, ask questions and above all HAVE FUN 
Todd


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## Colormepearl (Jan 25, 2009)

mik, Thank you much, for your reply. I looked up George's threads, under Bachmann and the like, and came up with nothing like you mentioned. What you gave was good stuff, however, when searching Ebay, I would not know how to search for the next to last produced Bachmann Mogal, that you say, has the weight, without the circuit board. (I run DC so don't need the boards, besides I rewire all my engines anyway for special stuff like home made circuit boards for remotes, custom smoke and the like.) These are small engines, and no room for much, so I can see how, if they pulled the weight, they would sit and maybe wheel slip, at best. Is there some marker or identifying characteristic of the good ones? Are they considered Spectrums? I would like to be informed when looking for just the right one, and know what to ask the seller. Again, thanks Mik!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

George's tips pages: http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips.html 

The mining mogul had no boiler weight (the crumbly geared 2-4-2 version did, but still wouldn't pull the skin off pudding - typical older B'mann) just the circuit board (during the first run. As I said, I haven't got to play with any of the brand new ones.) I think the board drives the LED directional lighting. If you're gonna void the warranty by performing a cut n toss, then ANY chunk of weight that fits will do


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Bachmann has now switched to metal gears, biggest problem in the past was the plastic gears would strip. 

And the 4-6-0 would derail the pilot truck, just fix that by adding 1 oz fish weights near both pilot axles. Mine now runs on 2 foot radius!!


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Bill - 

Looking over what's been posted so far, I think we've missed several important questions for you to think about. 

There seems to be an assumption that you're interested in steam, as opposed to diesel. As a former HO guy myself, with about 20 years gap since then, I have no intention of ever buying any engine that chuffs. I do more or less modern diesel, which seems to dictate 1:29 or 1:32 scale (Aristo-Craft, USATrains, RailKing, etc.) I haven't seen a lot of LGB product that I felt I wanted for my layout. Not a lot of pre-contructed buildings available these days, but there are some kits available, or buildings that aren't too far off scale that you can use if you locate them right. Scratchbuilding is always an option. 

Of course, if you model the transition era, from steam to diesel, you can have the best of both worlds and all the headaches, too. 

JackM


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Is there a club near you? That is how I transitioned from HO to G. I model as close to scale as possible, which is a carryover from my HO days. Some of my club members do follow a prototype and some do not, but many have been quite helpful when I first started and had questions. Greg Elmassian has a good TIPS section on his web site www.elmassian.com


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Bill, 

I too had moved from HO to G-scale. Really like what Bob had to say and that is to visit layouts. Like any business or hobby, being able to "network" with others in your local area will give you lots of advise and good tips. I started a notebook very soon after converting and clipped articles, wrote down email addresses (web sites), visited 3-4 local layouts and started to find that anyone who had been working in large scale for more than 3-5 years, had lots of opinions on "does and don'ts". There are also lots of different forums on MLS that can help you glean ideas. I have both an inside layout (mostly used to test trains and practice building structures/scenery) and in the middle of construction of an outdoor layout. Having homes in both FLagstaff and Sun City, Arizona....there are plenty of environmental challenges as these climates are very different. I'm assuming that your 1800 sf is a large basement area?, but it should give you lots of room to experiment with. I use trackpower inside (no problems with expansion, pine needle debris or having to bend over...Ha). Don't like to do a lot of wiring, so my friends convinced me that moving to battery power for outside was the way to go. (Of course there is some wiring with the conversions and you can easily tack on another $350 per engine for a conversion) You'll see lots of arguements on MLS for both. Probably the one thing that most will agree on is that this hobby isn't cheap....so, take you time, explore what you like and remember to have some fun building and running your trains. Also, if you move outside....maybe get your better half involved in the landscaping (my wife is a master gardener) and I just bought her her first engine (Bachmann Connie) and we are converting it to battery, sound and fun!!!! Welcome.....Ed


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I like to trot this out for newbs occasionally.... Sometimes it helps. Guys who've been in other scales already know most of it. 
http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/tips2.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice page Allen... 

Greg


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