# dcc power requirements



## domer94 (May 4, 2015)

for a decent sized basement layout, with possibility of two trains running simultaneously , plus another doing switching, will an NCE system with a 5 amp smartbooster be enough? or should I be looking at adding another 5 amp booster to handle the duties.

thanks


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Three trains on 5 amps would likely be pushing it, especially if the trains have multiple-unit diesels and/or lighted passenger cars. A single 10-amp system may be better, or divide the railroad up into two power districts each with a 5-amp service. 

Later,

K


----------



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

It's based more on the amperage of the locomotives than on the layout size. Big two-motor engines draw more than little 0-4-0s. One possibility is to start with the 5 amp system and just add a second booster if needed. Or, if you have specific locomotives that you're planning to run, someone on here probably has a pretty good idea of the amperage required to run them. 

Like EBT mentions, you also need to keep in mind lights in passenger cars (if they're track powered) and smoke units, if you're running those. It also depends if you're running anything else on the track power--like DCC turnouts, etc.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I would not run 3 "normal" locos from 5 amps.

A smoke unit running hard (like what we call direct drive) takes over an amp itself, but since this is a basement layout, you probably are not running smoke much, if at all.

Turnouts on DCC are a different story, depending on the actuators you use, most switches only use power when moving, so that is normally not a concern.

Greg


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

You can start with the 5 amps, add the booster later if needed.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Be sure you plan for the second booster, not all boosters can be paralleled, and not all systems have a bus to control boosters, yes, the command station can tell the booster to shut down.

Research and plan ahead.

Greg


----------



## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

domer94 said:


> for a decent sized basement layout, with possibility of two trains running simultaneously , plus another doing switching, will an NCE system with a 5 amp smartbooster be enough? or should I be looking at adding another 5 amp booster to handle the duties.
> 
> thanks


It sounds like you already have a 5 amp booster. I'd buy a new 10 amp booster for the layout and keep the 5 amp for the workbench. It's really nice having a separate booster for the workbench. Not having to decide how to divide up and wire your layout into districts will make the single 10 amp booster well worth it.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Need to know more about the original posters rolling stock.
If he runs single motor engines and only a couple of short passenger cars then 5 amps is OK, however, I would always plan on going as big as possible in case of future expansion and/or more and bigger engines.
I plan on getting the 20 amp DCC system even though I have a 8 amp system presently and it does all I need it to do.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think that's enough info, "decent sized", up to 3 trains.

Remember that when a loco starts from a stop, there the stall current is drawn for an instant.

I'd get over 5 amps... I went to Zimo, 12 plus 8 amps or strapping to 20 amps.... 8-10 amps is what I think you need.



domer94 said:


> for a decent sized basement layout, with possibility of two trains running simultaneously , plus another doing switching, will an NCE system with a 5 amp smartbooster be enough? or should I be looking at adding another 5 amp booster to handle the duties.
> 
> thanks


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Given you are running two and having a third switching, I can't see you needing more than 5A. I have to work pretty hard to get over 5A running three large LGB engines, but I guess it will depend on what make your locos are etc. 

BTW Greg, why does your website try to access my clipboard every time I go there?


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

You can see that opinions are all over. Give what you have a try.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you only have LGB locos you can stay under 5A for sure. But few locos use as little current as LGB. 

But if you add lighted cars, run smoke, etc. ...

I don't believe my web site accesses your clipboard, in fact the opposite, you cannot cut and paste from my website unless you are a registered user. I had some issues with people copying things from my web site, and I'm sure that you will understand that with 650 pages, it could become a non-trivial problem.

What browser is giving you this message?

Greg




Cougar Rock Rail said:


> Given you are running two and having a third switching, I can't see you needing more than 5A. I have to work pretty hard to get over 5A running three large LGB engines, but I guess it will depend on what make your locos are etc.
> 
> BTW Greg, why does your website try to access my clipboard every time I go there?


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg: I'm using explorer from a PC when I get that message. It seems odd that it wants to access the clipboard. I don't get it when using Mac IOS


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, well, trust me it is not accessing the clipboard, so the message is related to what it is finding, that the clipboard will be inoperable on my site. Leave it to Microsoft to try to use the clipboard as soon as it hits my site. If you try to cut with a browser, you will see a message "Stop copying .... something".... the default message from the web site plug in.

Try to copy some text with your Mac browser and see what it says, or try FireFox... both should let you know that you cannot do copy...

Regards, Greg


----------



## domer94 (May 4, 2015)

what type of power supply do you guys use to power remote turnouts and layout lighting? one of those MTH z-750's? something like that?

thanks


----------



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

domer94 said:


> what type of power supply do you guys use to power remote turnouts and layout lighting? one of those MTH z-750's? something like that?
> 
> thanks


My layout lighting is powered by a 12v transformer, separate from the train power supply. It's just the cast-off power supply from an old laptop. I light my buildings with LEDs, which I buy in bulk from eBay with leads and resistors for 12v already soldered on.

The switch motors (for the few that currently have motors) are powered from the DCC bus, from a 10-amp booster. Since they only draw current when actually switching and I only run at most two locos at a time, I don't see this as an issue.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

How you power a switch motor depends on the spec of the motor. LGB has a DC motor and can be controled by a short polarized pulse, or add a switch decoder and run it from DCC.
I have the LGB EPL 4 switch box with optional booste and the Aristo 27mhz receiver for my outdoor switches which I installed 12 years ago. I can run DCC but kept the switches for running DC or DCC.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If your switch machines only draw current when moving, then you can consider running them from the rails.

I have a 12 amp system, so I hook the switch machine decoders right to the rails, and mine are solenoids which draw current when thrown. All of this works fine from the rails, saving a lot of wiring.

Greg


----------



## domer94 (May 4, 2015)

thanks I think I have an idea of how I will set up. I have already a 5 amp SB3A smart booster, so I think I will just pick up another 5 amp power district booster and separate the layout into two districts for 10 amp total. on a DCC related question... what type of phone wire can I use to link the NCE power cab plug-in panels? im going to need some pretty good lengths and was hoping to pick some up at home depot or something cheap.


----------



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

domer94 said:


> thanks I think I have an idea of how I will set up. I have already a 5 amp SB3A smart booster, so I think I will just pick up another 5 amp power district booster and separate the layout into two districts for 10 amp total. on a DCC related question... what type of phone wire can I use to link the NCE power cab plug-in panels? im going to need some pretty good lengths and was hoping to pick some up at home depot or something cheap.


The NCE cable (connector) for the cab bus is an RJ-12. NCE states the max distance is 40' for this cable type. I bought the Ethernet adapter and panel and connected it to a 100' Ethernet cable and it seemed to work OK. It's not in the ground yet, but I think this is probably the best way to get a long run for your cab. 

Mark Gurries page here has good info about the NCE cables.

I also have the NCE wireless setup, bit find it's not extremely reliable (probably because it's in a metal-framed shed) and uses batteries at a prodigious rate.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The NCE-supplied cables are flat cable, not twisted pairs. By substituting twisted pair, you increased the noise immunity of the system.

I believe the NCE system uses RS-485, which is actually designed for long distances.

Greg


----------



## domer94 (May 4, 2015)

plans have changed. I have decided to sell my SB3a booster and go with the single 10 amp powerhouse. now my question is about the feeder wire system. I will be running a 10ga buss under the whole layout with 18ga feeders. now, do I need to create "insulated blocks" with each feeder? or can I just space them out as I feel necessary to provide good juice to the track system and treat the whole layout as a live unit.
thanks for all your patience with the questions.. its been a big help. im making good headway and should be able to lay track soon!


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

You do not have to divide into blocks. With good connection from rail to rail you should not need many feeds. I ran 500 feet outside with one feed for three years, it is 8 foot rail with split jaws.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I created several blocks, so I could isolate issues with power/joiners.

It's easy to do when you are putting things together... it's WAY easier to isolate poor joiners, shorts, opens.

Just buy a few insulated joiners. I have blocks about 40-60 feet long.

Also, no one has quizzed you on the type of trains you run.

I will guarantee you that my trains would not have operated well on Mikes layout, I run trains that draw up to 10 amps. No matter how good your joints are, they are still a bit of resistance compared to solid rail.

Also, as I often repeat, the track is the foundation of your layout, if it is crappy, then no matter how good your rolling stock is, it won't work well. That goes for power, alignment, level, etc.

Greg


----------



## domer94 (May 4, 2015)

I have a couple of aristo FA diesels, an RS3, some smaller LGB stuff, a bachman 4-6-0 , and some smaller aristo steams. I don't plan on running any lashups or anything. my trains wont be excessively long due to its indoors. I would however have two trains running at one on separate areas though.. and maybe one doing small swithing ops as well. that would be my max scenario


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, just as an exercise, would you figure your peak amps? This is not meant as a challenge, but exercise to help determine needs.

Remember also that with DC, if the train slows down a bit, you just kick up the throttle, a single train on 500 foot of track.

Whereas, an advantage of DCC is multiple locos at one time, constant voltage lighting, full voltage all the time for smoke units.

(so comparing running a layout on DC vs. DCC is really not a comparision at all).

Greg


----------

