# Mountains by Denray "Revisited"



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I have been ask by several to post full views and explain the double loop of the east and west mountain. My railroad is designed for short trains and mostly gear engines. 
My mountain loop has a loop on the top of east mountain and the bottom of west mountain, with 4 bridges that connect the mountains. 
The bridges now are temporary bridges, once the mountain work is all done the permanent bridges will be built.










Full View of the North side of east mountain
next view is the south side of the east mountain, the stone arch bridge and the steel arch bridge.


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

This view shows the bridge area, this is 4 levels of tracks, the top 3 are part of the mountain loop, the bottom connects the loop the rest of the railroad. The temporay wooden bridge in the background connects the loop on the bottom, it crosses the stone arch bridge and connects on the other side back to the track completing the bottom loop.


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

South side of Mashville Mountain


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

The south side of the west mountain, the track shown goes onto temporary wooden bridge, then over the stone arch bridge.


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

A view of southside of the west hall and the southside of east mountain
Dennis


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis you have a great looking layout. Your mountains have a nice color to them.Pete


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

thanks Pete, i used a new technique for me, I used the concrete color etching. The coffee color, then I highlight with a lite dry brushing with a orange/red, then white then used black the highlight water wash ways.
Dennis


----------



## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

What technique do you use to get the snow in the valley's and around the base?
Mountains and structures look great.
Alan


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

My bet is that Dennis has no control on the application or use of "snow".

....interesting technique tho....!!!

...LOL


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

YEP that is real snow
Dennis


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Dennis, mountains look great.....I haven't found your first posts of these, do I assume you are using a combination of real rocks and a cement binder? Do you have any pictures of your work during the initial construction. I would be interested. Thanks, Ed


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Dennis, your mountains look great. I haven't found your original postings, do you have pictures of the construction of these mountains available. I'm starting work on mine and like your techniques. Thanks, Ed


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Came out looking great!


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the compliments
Ed I have made several previous post and I would be glad to help guide you. The best way is to spend a little time via phone and link you onto my flicker photo site.
I have helped others via phone, and get so much more helpful info rather than extra long 
forum chats, Also check out Cliff J 's posting in the Garden forum. 
Let me know if you want to link together via phone.
Dennis


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Dennis, I got a goggle notice (via G-mail) on the Bragdon Enterprises in California. Thanks for the reference. Their web page is rather old (circa 2001) and a little awkward to use, but I did manage to get an order in for making their rock molds. I know that almost everything the publish is for resin and plaster casting, so did you have anything (other than the WD-40 as a mold release) that you used to extend the life of the molds? I also assume (I know, bad to do) that you watered down the type "S" mortar mix so that it would flow into the detail portions of the mold better? I enjoyed the You Tube videos and looking forward to your third one...my guess it will cover your staining techniques. Thanks again, Ed


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Ed
I have only used WD 40, I have poured cement many many times in the molds. The main thing I watch out for is
to not leave then lay in the sun, 
The mixture with water is not real thin, I use the same mixture that I use when I lay up the walls.
Thanks Dennis


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

I figure that you want to remove the molds in the "green" state. Found the same issues with leaving just ordinary boards against concrete or steel form supports too long. Being in Arizona (and this is the heat of the summer), I'm figuring that about 2-3 hours would be perfect for removing them. The forms arrived yesterday afternoon late. Thanks for the suggestions....I will probably test one of the molds today to see what techniques work the best here.


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Ed a friend of mine in Tulsa was pulling his out to early and had a crumble effects, i told him to wait
a little longer, solved problem. Remember this is motar mix, not sackcrete.
a little experment will provide for you, your answer, good luck, and keep us posted your results, PLEASE
Thanks
Dennis


----------



## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

Type S is a mortar mix which produces 1800 psi strength. http://www.gobrick.com/portals/25/docs/technical%20notes/tn8.pdf Table 1 is how it is mixed from scratch and Table 2 shows the strength properties. I include this just show it is a mortar versus a concrete mix. Some mortar mixes are not made with Portland cement. In either case, the best circumstances for mortar or concrete is a slow cure. This means slow the evaporation of the water in the mix. Most concrete is cured by covering it with plastic or curing compound (a commercial product) to slow the evaporation. Hot sun with cause a flash set and crumbling or dusting surfaces if not wet cured. The old way was to cover it with wet burlap fabric. Just spraying a mist of water on the exposed surface should help. Concrete reaches an initial strength at 7 days and ultimate strength at 28 days. Commercial work can accelerate the strength and curing times with various additives. I have made precast concrete buildings and wrote an article in the June 2000 issue of Garden Railways magazine.


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks Dick for the technical info, Thankfully, for at least my application, I am not to concerned about
the drying because 90% of mine is drying after sundown. But for most strength it needs to cure slowly.
Fortunately our mountains are not a stressful factor where lives are at stake.
Dennis


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks for the reminders Richard, and suggestions from Dennis. I've working with 106 o 110 degree day time temps (humidity is a little high right now in the 15-40% range), but I have found that slow drying does allow for more curing. I'm using the Type "S" Masonry/Stucco cement from Home Depot (Glendale, AZ). I have a bag of lime and Portland cement to increase the mixture ratios a tad. I did see a You Tube video where someone made a "shaker" box for his concrete roof molds....used an electric hand sander without the sanding paper to produce the shaking. Helped to liquefy the concrete into the recesses in the mold....maybe I'll try that as well. Right now I'm trying to finish up a Koi pond for my wife, so it may be a bit cooler out when I actually use the molds. Ed


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Just had some extra mortar, so I poured the first six molds.....I will experiment with this batch...remove the first one in six hours, seven hours, etc., I will see if any of them crumble or are difficult to remove.


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Always a pleasure and inspiration seeing your work, Dennis!


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Ed!!!!!!!!
You call 15-40% high humidity, wow good buddy, that would be extremely, LOW for us. 
a bladeless , saber saw works well for a vibrator also.
Please keep us posted on your work.
Cliff, thanks for the compliment
Dennis


----------



## jokensa (Dec 4, 2014)

can someone please direct me to the youtube link

many thanks

JKS


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

go to you tube, search 
concrete mountains Dennis Rayon


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

OK, it is about 105 degrees right now and 19% relative humidity. I took the first mold out at 3-1/2 hours and it crumbled a little...one edge. I just finished taking the four moderate size molds apart at 6 hours and they came out OK. I have been "watering" them to keep the curing rate the same. I have left the one large mold (going for 8 hours) and will let you know. If the other guy searches for "Mountains Building with Concrete", it is easy to find your first two videos. I am hope that your third will be about staining and coloring? Thanks, so far, everything is working as planned. I am washing the molds (found that leaving them in a water bucket for a few minutes prior to using the hose to wash out the excess) seems to work very well.


----------



## jokensa (Dec 4, 2014)

got it

thanks!


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I'll be looking forward to seeing pics of your progress Ed!

Cliff

PS, yeah, with 80% humidity out here, I kinda really agree with Dennis...


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

*Adding a new additional line*

I have wanted to add another short line to my railroad, I like having multiple lines running at one time. I have a 1-- 68 foot loop , (Track Power), a 200 ft Battery loop, and now adding a 25ft track powered high mountain loop. This loop is almost 6ft off the ground, this is the top of 3 track high.
This 3rd track has two 30inch bridges, one of the bridges crosses both lower tracks. 









Above picture has a 20 ft ring in place, so I can figure out where I want to add the 2-- 30 inch 
arch bridges.








The above picture shows the 2 30 inch steel arch bridges in place


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

This view shows the starting of placing the wooden structures to fasten the wire mesh to.
















Wire mesh on the north wall









The first evening of concrete wall added


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Concrete added to north east corner

Dennis


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Looking great Dennis! Always fun for me to see your work.

(All that is shorthand for Awesome! Incredible! Amazing! Drooling all over the keyboard so much that I had to get a paper towel to clean up! My carpal-tunnel right wrist has a hard time typing all that out each time, so thanks for appreciating my usual shorthand responses for what they're worth). 



Neat bridge-thing you have going on, maybe I wasn't paying attention to your coverage of that, I'll have to look...


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Those are some of the best looking mountains ive seen! what is your hourly rate?


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks Cliff and Nate for your kind compliments.
Nate, my pay is I get to see them everyday. 
Dennis


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Prolly your wood stick support idea may not work so well near termites!! Lol

Impressive..that help if I type for your car-pull-tunnel Cliffy?!

Thanks..SD


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Is that just pure concrete Powder? There is no stones in it are there ? I have tried stucco/ mortar mix with Fiberglass Particles in it. 

JJ


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

SD I use treated wood, it reduces the termite appetite, and we have termites. but if the wood disappears it will stand on its own. 
JJ I use type S mortar mix, so it does have sand
Thanks
Dennis


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

denray said:


> Thanks Cliff and Nate for your kind compliments.
> Nate, my pay is I get to see them everyday.
> Dennis


if you ever get in the york area, stop by... and bring some concrete!
is there any specific brand/ type of concrete you reccomend?


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Nate, I just use Type S motar mix, i buy from a local lumber yard and also from Lowes, because I drive by one occasionally. two different brands
Dennis


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Actually I have mentally pictured your basic base frames built from both a steel rebar affair.. Or plastic pipe..as I do my roadbed structure..to create supports for mountain work in cement.. And I do intend some rocky mountains to be hollow cement designed.. While most will be full dirt filled mountains...

Thanks
SD


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

SD
As a steel fabricator I could easily use rebar, considering my roadbed is steel, using the treated lumber is easier for me. Dirt filled mountains, will create problems, if you live in an area that has freezing weather. They will get the dirt wet, then expand. I have done this, and replaced them with hollow mountains. A lot depends on the height you want to achieve, the mountain in the latest addition will exceed 8 feet.
Thanks for your input
Dennis


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Dennis.. By way of clarifying... My layout is that huge bare spot in the desert... Some winter rains or snow .. Barely..little freezing.. 
My open expanses will survive being dirt.. Right of way berm fills.. Low hills..flowing into larger scenic vistas..
I in no way want the cement bill for acres of crete mountains here..
Pehaps you n others may consider donation tho! Lol...

SD


----------



## jimhoot (Mar 21, 2015)

Nice work Dennis
I was wanting to start my mountain this week but life got in the way.
We are going to try this weekend.

SD are you shipping free sand? (donations)


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Jim how big are you planning on making?
Dennis


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Funny Jim..seriously... Sand is rare in my close vacinity.. In washes in the area..my wash has some..
A huge pile.. Not gunna happen!
Good luck on your mountains!

SD...hiding in AZ!


----------



## jimhoot (Mar 21, 2015)

Dennis

It will be about 12' long 6' high in the corner of our layout were the 2 decks meet.
It will have 2 tunnels with a water fall coming down in the one area.
I just have to get my truck running better first.


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Wow Jim That is pretty good size, hope you post on the forum and keep us posted
Dennis


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Here is 32 sqft of latex rock molds sprayed with WD 40 ready for the cement










Here they are filled, I like to fill them in the evening so the can cure slowly all nite


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I break most of the large ones up into 2-4 smaller pieces










Took the tractor and moved several of the cement molds closer to the mountain


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Standing on my patio looking at the mountain, still have a long ways to go


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

very very nice. only problem is when you want to sell your house, it will be pretty hard to dismantle and/or salvage the track!

nate


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Nate
I have thought of that, and take all the track and structures off and take a backhoe load onto a dump truck and in 8-10 hours, have the ground slicked off and reseeded. I probably will never have to worry about selling the house.
Of course if someone offered the right amount of money I will move. 
Believe it or not, my most enjoyment is building mountains, then structures, then running trains. So my most rewarding thing is what you see in this forum..
Thanks for you compliments
Dennis


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I agree... Creating is where its at for me!!!

Enjoy Dennis...

We are watching ya!!

SD


----------



## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

denray said:


> ...
> Believe it or not, my most enjoyment is building mountains, then structures, then running trains...


 
yes, building a world is much more satisfactory, than running trains.


----------



## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dennis
Took your advise regarding the "S Type" mortar mix. It seems to be much "stickier" than the Topping Mix I was using. A major improvement as the topcoat is added to Wolf Mountain. I saw some screen with black plastic behind it on the lower level of your site in that last photo. Future water feature??
Alan


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Wow Allen you have very sharp eyes, I never noticed how that showed up that way, but there is no plastic in that picture. I have no Idea how it came out that way. I like water features but they usually leak and require more work than I want to put into it.
Glad the type S is working good for you. Enjoy watching your progress on your mountains too. Please keep posting.
Dennis


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Alan's "Wolf" is becoming alive!!!

SD


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

fyrekop said:


> Dennis
> I saw some screen with black plastic behind it on the lower level of your site in that last photo. Future water feature??
> Alan


Yeah, if it weren't for the stucco mesh, it looks to me like the gorge in the foreground continues past the track. But sounds like it will all be stucco'd up, right Dennis?

Looking wonderful!!


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks Cliff, Yes it will be all walled up, it is a quite complicated procedure with 3 tracks, and the top one is over the other two. Some serious thinking time spent pondering. I like it though.
Dennis


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

denray said:


> Thanks Cliff, Yes it will be all walled up, it is a quite complicated procedure with 3 tracks, and the top one is over the other two. Some serious thinking time spent pondering. I like it though.
> Dennis



Did someone mention Pondering? I am very good at that. 

I am quite sure you will figure it out. Your RR always looks great. 

JJ


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

any more progress?? those mountains sure are neat!!
nate


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

The picture below shows how I have to prop up or hold in place until the backing mortar sets up.
The outcropping is about 8"












Wider shot of bridge 1
Can see both tracks under the bridge


----------



## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking really good Dennis.
Chris


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Beautiful Dennis!
I like your trick of propping the slabs up as needed, as the mortar cures.


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

*Back Mountain Building*








[/url]IMG_4897 by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]

Building in around the bridge and Tunnel opening

Coming around towards the second bridge








[/url]IMG_4948 by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

IMG_4947 by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr

Adding the mountain that is above the track

IMG_5237 by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr

Granddaughter photographed Papa working on the top of the 9.5 foot tall mountain

IMG_6013[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

[/url]IMG_5241 by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]

The first coat over the wire mesh








[/url]IMG_5249 by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]

The second coat has been added

Working on the back side








[/url]IMG_5885[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]

More on the backside








[/url]IMG_5902[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]

All the bottom area is placed in 2 coats, second placed over the first one after it has set for about 30 minutes








[/url]IMG_5893[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

*Back Side Of 10 Foot Mountain*








[/url]IMG_5896[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/img]


----------



## MikeMcL (Apr 25, 2013)

Looking good! I like your rock work.

Sure looks like a lot of concrete to move and mix though!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, but looks like they can withstand the Korean nukes... 

Good timing.

Greg 913


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

The concrete is all done








[/url]IMG_0356[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]

Now for coloring to be added, I use Valspar concrete coloring etching. It is some sort of acid, because it is quite caustic, I use the Coffee color, it produces a quite reddish brown color, I first did not care for the color, then when I added the thin acrylic black wash, it turned it just as I wanted it to be. 








[/url]IMG_0362[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]


Test fitting my mine Rabbit Mountain Mine








[/url]IMG_0539[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]IMG_0543[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Mike and Greg, Thank you for the compliments, And yes Mike my concrete is thicker than you and others place on your mountains. I require thicker because in order for me to get the results of the deeper details, the concrete must be thicker. Concrete is a quite inexpensive product and mixing for me is quite easy.
Dennis


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a final compliment: just plain gorgeous!

Greg 899


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

[/url]IMG_0558[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]IMG_0553[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]

Now the top tracks have been installed








[/url]IMG_0613[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

[/url]IMG_0670[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]IMG_0661[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]IMG_0602[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]IMG_0641[1] by Dennis Rayon, on Flickr[/IMG]


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)




----------



## MikeMcL (Apr 25, 2013)

Very nice, absolutely gorgeous Dennis!


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Thank you Gregg and Mike for the kind words and compliments . I love building mountains, and have a few more to build
Dennis


----------



## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

Love your videos


----------



## Johnmillner (Jul 19, 2018)

Mmountains have a nice color to them.


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks John


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hey Dennis, wow, drool all over the place, now I have to get a mop.

You keep outdoing yourself, which is really hard to imagine in advance, but then you do it. and...

CJ


----------

