# Planning my first outdoor layout - which power option is best?



## Daddio (Jan 1, 2013)

Have DCC on my HO but not thrilled about laying all the wire or dealing with keeping the outdoor tracks clean. Researching RC for the garden layout. Can anyone make suggestions on brands, configurations or point me to places that already contain that info? Many thanks in advance.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I have had Air wire and battery car for about 12 years been very happy with it. I just switch to batteries and A/W into one of my 
GP-7"s haven't really had a opportunity to try it out. 

Don


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Go for code 250 track, trains look a LOT better on it, less toy-like. SVRR sells it as does Llagas Creek and AML.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I have had Airwire and Phoenix sound for six years. Love it! Batteries are in the locomotive. Accucraft C19, Bachmann Connie and Berlyn workgoose #6. Planning to do a USAT SD40-2 very soon with Airwire, Phoenix sound and batteries in the engine. 

I also agree with Jerry. I use Sunset Valley RR, code 250 aluminum rail. Trains look much better on it. Aluminum is a great deal cheaper (less cost) than brass or SS.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I use battery a lot. Some are setup with just an on/off switch and a 9.6 battery pack, if you are a guy that is content with them going round and round as I am. A few have a knob to adjust speed. I have some old Aristo Craft TE's that I use also, have one MTH engine with the proto-sound setup, but that is track power. 
The Ottawa Garden Rail club has some good info on battery powering engines, might check it out. Click on this: Battery Info


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## Daddio (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks for the input. Glad to hear Air Wire and batteries is a workable solution. I'd love to go RC if I could. I will also check out that track, too. Good feedback - thanks. Just a quick follow up, is it hard to install the battery systems and recievers in engines? Or is it rather straightforward?


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

If you have some basic electronic and soldering skills it's straight forward enough. However some locos are harder than others, and others you can get a drop in option or just plug it in. 

All depends on the loco 

RCS make some great bits which can be used for all battery conversions and some excellent How To's http://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/how-to

Alan


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Daddio, 
The degree of difficulty of installation pretty well depends on the loco and what you expect to be able to do with the loco itself. 
For example if all you want to do is battery R/C what was a track powered loco (that is, it performs the same way) then it is quite straightforward. 
If you want to have constant brightness directional lighting that can mean rewiring, but again depending on the loco. 
Those locos with the standard Plug'n'Play (PnP) sockets are really easy, but only if you are using PnP ESC's. If not using PnP ESC's they can get complicated. 

Tell us what locos you intend using, whether you want directional constant brightness lighting and or sound systems, and we can guide you as to what is the best way of wiring them up. 

Bear in mind how much you want to spend when selecting the brand of R/C equipment. It can get quite expensive when combined with all the bells and whistles.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you're used to DCC, then I'd definitely recommend the Airwire/Phoenix combination (Airwire for control, Phoenix for sound), or the QSI "Titan" with the G-wire receiver. The Titan is a motor/sound decoder, and the G-wire receiver turns it into a wireless unit for battery R/C. Both combinations will run you between $300 - $325 per loco for all the electronics involved (minus the transmitter, c. $150 which you only need to buy once--and the transmitter will operate both systems.) These two systems are probably the most expensive combinations, but offer you the most control and best sound--and given that you're used to DCC, you should find programming them familiar territory. (Though I do heartily recommend getting the programming software for the QSI and Phoenix.) 

And presuming you're used to doing the DCC installs on your HO locos, I think you'll find it pleasantly similar, with one signficant difference--ROOM!!! Even with fitting batteries onboard, you need only a very small amount of space for the electronics. Internally, the locos are pretty similar. 

Later, 

K


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## Daddio (Jan 1, 2013)

Ha - looking forward to that room!


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Check us out for some unique options: Automated station stops, low battery warning, and some low cost solutions.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Morning Daddio. The guys have covered the issues of "room" and ease of operation for battery operation versus track power. Type of track of course can be a whole different discussion and I liked one thread I read that indicated it was "your empire and you are the engineer, so if you like it, it must be right". The one thing you also have to add is the cost factor. Above the cost of the locomotive, you are looking between $300-500 per engine to convert (battery, receiver, speaker, sound card and controller). Of course with Innovation or Airwire (just to name a few), the controller or transmitter can handle multiple locomotives...but if you want to have friends run on your layout...you'll probably need two. I actually have both (track power for an indoor layout) and battery as I build the outside one. What I enjoy most about the battery operation is the ability to follow the train around the layout, somewhat hands free and don't have to be close to the power source (which you can obviously also do with DCC and handheld controllers)..and then do a lot of the switching using manual switches...so I find it very interactive. I'm sure you'll find that the first conversion is the most stressful (cutting wires and making sure it still works). Good luck, I'm sure you'll enjoy your decision.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have outdoor DCC. 

All stainless track.. feeders every 30-40 feet, but works fine with half that number. 

No maintenance, no track cleaning, except an occasional degreasing of the rails from dead ants mixed with sea air and carbon.. my major problem there is traction. 

My per loco cost for TONS of features and up to 28 commandable functions per loco is $200... (and don't forget the cost of chargers)... 

I have a fair number of locos... track power and DCC is much cheaper for me, plus I can always fit the control system AND a speaker in any loco... I have too many small and unusual locos that battery power just would not fit. 

I'm very happy with my decision, it's cheaper, less hassle, trains always ready to go, and installations are easier. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Greg, 
What happened to *"you battery guys stay out of DCC threads and the track powered DCC guys will stay out of Battery R/C threads"*?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Because he asked for power options... although now re-reading he said RC... oops... 

Oh well, since the battery guys ALWAYS comment in track powered threads, one small transgression on my side is way less that the battery comments on track power threads... 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, you are incorrigible.









Why not set an example to others and stay out of the battery stuff and refrain from promoting your beloved track powered DCC in the battery forum. That would put you on the moral high ground and win you some friends for a change.









I have no problem with those who mix DCC with battery power posting here.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You can run using DCC protocols and batteries by using either Airwire encoders or qsi decoders. In both cases, batteries supply the power and the DCC command set is sent over the air. Qsi decoders have motor and sound combined, but you need to add a small wireless receiver card, called a gwire card, to each decoder. Airwire decoders don't have sound, and you would need to add a separate sound card. 

You get the full DCC command set, with all the tweaking that implies. The disadvantage compared to both track power dcc and other non-dcc remote control rigs is the significantly higher per loco cost. I looked at it and decided to go with track powered DCC, for various reasons. But I still have a few of the g wire cards in case I ever want to set up battery power.

Aristocrafts revolution system now offers a very basic sound and motor card for relatively low cost. It's not DCC, but is has some DCC-like features


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