# Weed cloth



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

What ever you call it? the black mate you place on the ground to stop weeds.
I used to use it but did not like it because smaller stuff washed off and rocks did not seem to set and become stable to walk on. Plus I did not want my RR to look too gardeny.

But I'm sick of it all.
OK
how do you grow ground cover with this stuff?
I don't think I can use this every place.
I don't want it to work its edges up and show.
Just tring to figure it out.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If there are plants to grow there, often landscapers just poke a hole through the "weed barrier" cloth and plant through the ground. 

You can dig the ground down deeper at the edges and cover with more dirt/rocks at these edges. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Ditto what Greg said. The biggest problem I have found with weed cloth is if a weed "roots" into the cloth then it's a nightmare to get out. when you pull the root you pull the whole darn cloth up. I finally resorted to what some one once called "full blown chemical warfare". Or in other words Roundup. 
Good luck in your endevors.


----------



## imrnjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty -- 
Greg's response is correct, but I have my best luck if I dig all the holes for plants first, lay the weed fabric over then cut an x big enough to place the plant in the hole, and finish backfilling with soil. Then I trim the points of the x just enough to allow the plant foliage/stalks about an 1" of room, then cover with mulch/stone and water them in. 

I also save some the pots the plants come in to use as covers when I need to use a weed/grass killer next to the plants. And you will have to do this even with weed cloth/fabric. Because while it keeps weeds and grass from coming up, seeds will settle in the mulch/stone and germinate after a couple of years.

I've also have just put a slightly larger pot down in the ground and stuck another potted flower or shrub in it. I do this with annuals, and tropicals that I want to winter over in the house or barn. Much easier clean up than digging up a dead plant, just pull the pot out and your done!

The edges can be trenched in like Greg suggests or edged in with commercial edging or if using a heavy mulch like cedar or pine straw just pinned to the ground and covered with the mulch. 

If you want your rocks to set up and not slip around,... till the ground down about 2", lay the fabric, spread your rocks, water thoughly and roll it with a small water filled lawn roller or just walk on them alot. And just like ballast,it needs to be broken material, round rocks don't ever really set up. They will get tight, but they still will move.

Good luck

Mark


----------



## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, getting to old to pull weeds? I also put fabric down, but I have found out that stuff does grow through some times, I have laid newspapers down first before I laid the barrier, no more weeds, unless they grow on top. I usually cover an area first, it is so much easier laying it down, then cutting holes in it for your plants, that is if they are not down already. I use rocks all the time, I am no fan of mulch, always brings more weeds, and you always have to add some, it degenerates after a while.
Rocks dont blow away either like mulch does, and if you add paper underneath, it holds moisture for your plants also.


Tomh


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I the past I have bought from COOP places and in bulk for spray. 
But like my mountains and cliff areas, I just can't believe the weed seeds that fly, and how futal our ground is around here. 
This time of the year I get discuraged. 
Yet I bring it up-on myself. 
I'm getting a ton each of 3 kinds of rock to help mix it up with multch so it does not look so "perfect".


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 04/24/2009 1:14 PM
What ever you call it? the black mate you place on the ground to stop weeds.
I used to use it but did not like it because smaller stuff washed off and rocks did not seem to set and become stable to walk on. Plus I did not want my RR to look too gardeny.

But I'm sick of it all.
OK
how do you grow ground cover with this stuff?





Put ~2" of soil on top of the cloth and ground cover like thyme can root in that. Yeah, you'll still get some weeds, but they can't get a deep foot-hold and come right out. Cut holes in the cloth for your trees and shrubs. Actually, once your ground cover is established and going, it precludes the weeds, especially ground covers like elfin thyme.


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty,
Not to be the bearer of bad news or anything but I'm familiar with your situation, I've seen what your area around the MLS canyon bridge looked like in 2004 when it was covered in weeds (as compared with the last two years when it was ready for a photo spread!) I'm (unfortunately) intimately familiar with the type of weeds you are battling! That bindweed _won't ever _be conquered!! The only thing you can do is what you are doing now (sorry, I wish I had better news for you...) The good news is that the weeding is relatively easy....unless you have a layout that is the size of half of a football field! Umm........I'm not being much help am I?


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd 
is that stuff full sun and does it have to be watered? 

Steve
my ol friend,,YOUR NOT HELPING!!!!!
I need to find an old photo of the canyon when the bridge would almost get grown over in crown vetch


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 04/24/2009 6:02 PM
Todd 
is that stuff full sun and does it have to be watered? 

Steve
my ol friend,,YOUR NOT HELPING!!!!!
I need to find an old photo of the canyon when the bridge would almost get grown over in crown vetch



Yes, full sun to part sun and yes, it has to be watered. Though they are not epiphytic, many of the thymes will grow in direct sun with very little water and I have lots on the "fringe areas" that doesn't get direct spray, but does fine.


----------



## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, I don't grow groundcover using weedcloth. Instead, use a groundcover that grows quickly and is easy to maintain. Weeds have a hard time growing thru the more dense plants. Because they struggle to poke thru, it also makes it easier to pull out. I have lived in northern Ontario where the summers are short and a bit on the cool side. I am currently living in southwestern Ontario, where the summers are long, hot and humid. These plants will grow vigorously in either location.
Yellow Acre Sedum

Irish or Scotch Moss
Red Creeping Thyme

Wooly Thyme
The Yellow Acre Sedum has a bad reputation for being too aggressive. However it is also shallow rooted and easy to remove. These low growing plants are also known to grow over the winter months when coverd in snow. If you would like pictures of what they look like feel free to eail me. Regards, Dennis.


----------



## imrnjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis--What do you consider a long, hot, humid summer?? Ontario may be humid, but I can't see hot based on my experiences. It's already hit a 100F here in west Texas with 50% humidity and only more of it to come







....probably through1st week of November!

Mark


----------



## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 

From a non-gardener..... 

I've never had much luck using weed barrier on the ground either. It always seems to get kicked up by animals and the weeds seemed to like to grow even in the small amount of dirt and mulch that was on top making weeding even more difficult than without it. Aside from the excellent suggestions about ground cover already posted there is one possible answer to _*part*_ of your problem. 

If there are areas that you don't have to step on you might try benchwork as I've done except only a few inches above the ground. You know, with hardware cloth and weed barrier over a PT wooden framework. Earth and/or rocks can hide the edges of the very low framework to blend it into the surrounding terrain and you'll never know it's there. I use 1-1/2" of strained dirt on top of the benchwork which is more than sufficient for mosses or small ground cover to grow in. The few weeds that crop up are easily removed because their roots don't have much dirt to grow in. 

While this procedure wouldn't work for areas that you'd have to step on a few hard spots could be placed for limited access and even if only 10 to 20% of the surrounding landscape adjacent to the RR were done this way it'd be that much less to cut down or weed out. I found that the hardest areas to keep neat were those immediately adjacent to the RR as care had to be taken not to damage track and structiures, etc. The frames can be any size or shape you wish according to the area they're in and also could provide good bases for townships as well eliminating heavy maintenance around structures. 

This might ease at least a portion of your RR maintenance chores which on an empire the size of yours could be considerable. Just a disclaimer.....remember that I'm not a gardener. In fact although I greatly admire a beautiful landscape and appreciate the exemplary work of those creating it I absolutely hate to pull weeds and garden generally. Even a single flower pot is more than I want to deal with. hehe!


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I forget about this form, 
I have been thinking about the 1" or so of dirt on top of the cloth. in some areas. Around the area of the new station (which is a viewing spot) would be great for a test plot. plus part shade. 
thanks for the tips.


----------



## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, it has already hit 90 degrees with 70% humidity. The nights are cool and by May everyones air conditioner will be on. Like your midwest, we have tornados and summer storms that have 80 mph winds. Plants have a tendency to dry out and die even over our winters, as we receive very little snow. The key is to provide a thick bed of good earth. I use a 50/50 mix of cow manure and black earth. Keeping plants alive under extreme conditions can be very trying. I also use a rain barrel that gives me quick access to fil my watering cans. The best advice I can give you is to ask these questions at your local nursery. They deal with these problems every day and are best able to advise you as to what to use in your layout. Regards, Dennis.


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Heres an example
I placed cloth between the tracks here at NebJct.








And it will work fine. but what about the bank along the trees line?
mulch falls on to the track and folks walk along with their controlers.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 04/27/2009 5:56 PM
Heres an example
I placed cloth between the tracks here at NebJct.








And it will work fine. but what about the bank along the trees line?
mulch falls on to the track and folks walk along with their controlers.





I pick that up by hand, but I'm only dealing with a 1,200-square foot area.


----------



## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

You can use a pre emergence herbicide like preen ect... But it won't help with weeds that have already sprouted. Roundup on a 2" paint roller works for that! The ground has millions of seeds in it, but the good news is the germination rate drops each year and fewer of them will sprout. If you can keep it weed free for a few years you should beat the cycle, don't you ever wonder watching all of the gardens shows how their gardens never have any weeds? Never let the weeds go to seed! 

p.s. cyprus mulch will stay put better on slopes if you don't mind the color of it. 

Good Luck 
Johnny


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

well this is going to kill me. I get about 20sq ft done in around an hour. very slow but hopefully it will save time later. I am puting grub control under the cloth to help there and keep moles from wondering in. 
Photos are under building forum


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

by Sept the RR will look alot different. not sure if its all good . But hopefully I can do more running. 








concreteing all stone walls to stop mud slids. 










the only bad thing is a friend said over the years the mulch will turn to mud and weeds will grow there also. 
bummer


----------



## Joe Mascitti (Oct 30, 2008)

Marty...I have used Preen with good results...

Even with all the rain this spring, I have just had a FEW weeds...and I just hand pull those..


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

As they say its a constant maint problem. The joys of RR out doors. You can always move inside and end your problems.







. Later RJD


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I, like several of the others here, am BIG on prevention of weeds. Weeds grow from seed. Preen, and preemergent products like that, interrupts the ability of seed to germinate. So, for any areas where you are not growing annuals (the flowering plants that reseed themselves), Preen is a good choice. I use Roundup to kill the active weeds and then pull the weeds out by hand when they're mostly dead. I do that all year long. 

Preen is a late winter, early spring kinda thing. You apply it per the recommendations, and no weeds grow. I have NOT seen it interfere with any plantings that came from a nursery either. I think you can apply a preemergent any time, but it's the spring time when you want to get control over the weed problem...NOT summer.


As a sidenote, there is one version of Roundup that contains both the weed killer and a preemergent. I use that stuff when I find a weed somewhere that has gone to seed. It kills the weed and applies a preemergent to the ground around the weed. I've found it NOT as good as the bagged preemergents I buy at the local ag store, but it does help. Another sidenote...I have NOT used Preen as it is most expensive. I use the preemergents that I buy at a ag store. Look around for where you can buy it outside of the Home Depot/Lowes/Walmart/Target world. AND, be sure to read the application instructions...it may be more potent.


If you have weeds in your lawn, a Feb/March application of a preemergent powder followed by several liberal lawn fertilizings will keep the weeds from germinating and stimulate the grass so that it grows dense, which in itself prevents weeds. If you want to plant annuals in your garden railroad, raise them as seedlings in flats or pots. Once they are about an inch tall, you can transplant them to the layout...and the preemergent won't impact them.


The really great thing about using prevention is that after about two years, your weed problem is minimal. Weeds that begin growing are from wind blow seed and birds for the most part and they're not hard to keep up with.


One last recommendation...I was TERRIBLE on remembering when to do stuff to the yard area. Now, I've begun putting calander entries into my computer, set with a yearly reminder...and when I need to do something, the calendar program reminds me. I now have yearly calendar entries for fertilizing the lawn (including the kind of fertilizer to use), fertilizing the different kind of plants in the yard, applying preemergents, dethatching the lawn, changing the irrigation timers, checking and lubricating yard equipment, the yearly tuneup of the John Deere, etc. Ever since I did this simple act, I've found that the plants are much healthier and that I'm using less water.


It's all about getting ahead of the problems....


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm in such a grumpy mood.
I was sick Friday/Sat so I mised the joint club meetings with the ride on folks. now today I feel great and doing track side weed cloth control.
I've done over 120ft guessing, and almost to Minersville








 
Been think'in, the last few years i have let all this go and now its really bad.
BTY don't ever wish for a large RR.
This is really a pain.
 
This is only one half of one line , I have the whole RR to do.
The roadbed is in great shape.
 
I'm think'in I have over two months and every-other evening to get it all.     wooo is me 
OH Stan where are you???


----------



## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

check out this site, I am sure you have heard of these. I think they would work great as a ground cover that chokes out weeds, similar to what Todd mentioned. www.stepables.com


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

John 
I know Bubba has lots on his RR, maybe he will sale a few starters. 
I have a sack of Preen now. I'm tring to do what ya-all sayin...


----------



## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Marty, take a quart jar, fill it with 1/3 Roundup, 1/3 Tordon, and 1/3 2-4-D (Anamine) - get the good stuff from the Co-op or Tractor Supply, not the Walmart stuff - put that in a 2 gallon sprayer filled with water, and spray it on the stuff you want gone, and it WILL kill it, even the Bineweed. BUT, don't spray it on what you want saved, don't spray it on a windy day, and don't spray it less than 24 hours before it rains. 

Good Luck and see you in September 
Chris


----------



## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

AND, don't forget a Military grade gas mask! lol


----------



## imrnjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty -- 

The mixture of 8 ounces of Roundup, Tordon, and 2-4.D in 2 gallons of water is way over the recommended mixes that the manufacturers, USDA NRCS, Texas Ag extension agency or TAMU research lists and in my opinion since this stuff is not cheap a waste of dollars. Mix them at the recommended rates to get the best kill per dollar. I don't use Tordon, so really don't have any experience with it by itself but the other two target all grasses and soft stemmed broadleafs (RoundUP/Glyphosphate) and some grasses and all broadleafs (2-4,D). 

However, if you do try it, mix in about an ounce or ounce and a half of a non-ionic surficant to allow the chemicals (some which may still be petroleum based) and the water to really mix in the spray tank. Almost any dishwashing liquid will do the trick, I generally use the house label from Wallyworld or the big grocery chains. And use a good chemical glove and an appropriately rated mask when mixing and spraying. Remember this stuff can be very dangerous. 


If you want to target woody stemmed plants like vines and small trees try a product like Reclaim (very expensive) or Remedy. I use a 2.5% foliar spray mix of Reclaim and Remedy in water (with a surfacant) to kill mesquite regrowth in the pasture , and that same mix in deisel fuel as a basal spray on larger mesquite, huisach, blackthorn, elderberry and bois d'arc in my fence lines. I have used the Ortho Brush be Gone product with success on trumpet vines and wisteria in the yard and around the barn, but it's just too expensive for general use on the ranch

When I'm spraying brush or noxious weeds in the pasture I also add some colorant/dye so I can see where I quit for lunch and what I have done or in my case missed. The local Coop/feed store should have some small bottles of it. Just don't get it on your hands ....it takes a day or two to come off.

I generally dedicate and label hand/backpack sprayers to specific jobs like herbicides/insecticides/fertilizers, but if you don't want to or can't then when you get through clean out your sprayer with a solution of 20%+ strength ammonia and plain water, so the next time you or your wife uses the sprayer to kill the aphids on the roses or fertilize the vegetable garden you won't kill everything. Be careful the ammoniafumes will burn your eys and nose so do it outside in a well ventilated area.

Good luck
Mark


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

This year I can't get round up altra so they sold me something else. 2 4 D usually speeds up burn down time. And I use it in my gentral purpose sprayer. 
the other in the "kills grass" sprayer 
I also have a bug sprayer for the bag worms that hit us hard this past year. 
tordon i only use it on trees stumps and small trees. never thought about mixing it?? 
I also use rubber gloves and wash my hands and arms under running water .


----------



## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

Just a suggestion, the scalp and the wrists are points of easy entry of chemicals into the body. Another place is kinda private so don't do any scratching.....Also take a permanent marker and label that sprayer you used 2-4-D in with WEED KILLER and only use it for that, alot of plants and trees are really sensitive to that stuff. 

Johnny


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

heres the after photo 









I have to work on a system of knocking out all the work so i don't get burned out. 
The switch laying on the main is for the two new sidings yet to be installed. 

I also transplanted some of the bushes to hide the RR ties.
this should make it easier to mow and spray.


----------



## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking good Marty, can't wait to see it in September. 

Chris


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't see the end yet, but on the lower areas I'm over 50% done. But lots of rock cliffs and retaining walls to build.


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Man this is an old thread. 
I'm all the way around and just noth of the gazebo now. FINALLY!!!! Am I there yet?????


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Just a reminder you got only 47 days till we all arrive.


----------



## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Marty. 

This loose ballast has been down 3-4 years now and it sits on weed matting. No weeds to speak of, once in a while I have to pull up a small sucker, but as said above, they have given up trying as I get to them before they seed. I use bark chippings at the edges and this slows them down too. If they do try and take hole then its easier to pull them outta the bark than soil. Good luck.


----------

