# Soldering Tin



## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

I bought some .008 Tin sheets and cut it to 3/8 strips. It seems to solder ok with rosin core solder. would Silver be too hot to solder tin? Would acid core work better? Msking a bull wheel for a derrick. Brass was too stiff to form, copper may work but the tin worked well.


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

In addition to the above questions about tin, is it possible to solder brass and tin together?
Thanks,
JimC.


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## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

Thats what I'll be doing and I would thing you can as 95/5 solder for plumbing is almost all tiin. I suspect that the tin sheet will melt before the silver solder does. That was basically my question. I'm trying to stay away from lead solder when i can. When would you use acid core?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Chrisb,
This may or not be correct!
I don't know what 'tin' you have, but the way I understand it is that the normal tin plate sheet is actually a steel sheet which is then tin plated.
All the 'old' toys and trains from the early days were made of tinplate, and they were mainly soldered together.
I would imagine that a good clean joint, some flux and the solder of your choice will make a good strong joint.
I still usually use 50/50 on all my soldering, but I guess when that runs out I will go lead free too.
Now you are possibly using the K&S sheet, which says that it is 'solid tin', and I know that my brother in the UK uses it as he finds it nice and soft to 'form' into shapes, and I also know that he solders it.
Like I say, I don't know if this helps, or not.
All the best,
David Leech,
Delta, Canada


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Come on Chris. Put some lead in your pencil.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris.

Tin sheet or tin plate they will solder very much the same, small heat difference, and you should have no trouble soldering to brass.

The best solder is probably 60/40 but 50/50 would also work fine. Solid core or rosin core, don't use acid core as it leaves a gummy 
residue that is corrosive and hard to clean out of small crevices and corners. 

You would have to develop way to much heat to flow Silver Solder or one of the "Silfloss" variations. You would probably burn your project up before you had flow.

The real secrets of soldering any material are the correct flux and a clean well tinned iron of the proper size.

For flux I highly recommend Superior #30 Liquid solder flux you can get it here.

H & N Electronics
California City, CA
760-373-8033
http://www.ccis.com/home/hn

This flux is non-corrosive and non conductive and has worked very well on everything I have tried it on; brass, galvanized, black iron, stainless, tin plate,
and copper. ( No interest in the product other than a satisfied customer)

You can probably pick up a product locally in a hardware store called "Tinners Fluid" that should work but not as well. 

Rosen core solder can be used with either of these fluxes. For most smaller jobs up to and including .332 rail solder of .010 is plenty big enough.

If your iron tip is not solder color shiny all over when hot, it is not good enough to solder with. Soldering iron tips "burn up" from the heat and scale over, turn dirty,
you can not solder well with a dirty iron. I keep my irons off the fire or unplugged except when rising to tempture or actually soldering, when they just sit while you
do something else they overheat and burn up.

Hope it helps some.
Rick Marty


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## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I should note that I'm not using a iron but a butane torch which is the size of a magic marker. I'm careful with it around tin. Anyone else use these micro torches?


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

well, sanded away the dirt from the iron. 
by the looks it must be copper. 
how do i get it "tin-colored"?


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Good morning,
To dress an iron, by the way "irons" are copper doesn't make much sense does it, you can file it to a good flat surface or any shape surface you need.
Then "tin" it by heating the iron and applying flux and solder and rubbing on a surface such as a block of wood. The iron will "pickup the solder and leave a
shiny liquid looking surface on the "tinned" area. This is the back woods way to do it, to correctly tin an iron go to the hardware store and pick up a 
block of Sal Ammoniac. Using the same process, heat the iron, rub it on the block of Sal and add solder. The iron should instantly start to tin.
Use the Sal Ammoniac outside as it produces really stinky smoke when tinning an iron. 

Remember a dirty (oxidized) iron can not pick up solder nor can it transfer heat to the piece being soldered. I think this is the real reason behind so 
many soldering problems and myths. An iron left on the fire or the power left on to it over an extended time when it is not being used, heat drawn off, will 
overheat and burn up the tip (oxidize). Re-tin it. Best to put an electric iron on a rheostat that way you can turn the heat down between solder joints 
but still keep the iron semi-ready.

Later
Rick Marty


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

thanks. 
i will try the back woods way.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Chris,

I have one of the 'pencil' torches, but I haven't gotten out to buy a can of butane for it. Keep forgetting.

If you have acid flux, and if you use it, you really should get a can of 'acid core flux remover'. It cleans the residue up okay. I happen to prefer acid flux on non-electronic soldering because it appears to clean the material better while soldering. This is just a personal foible. I image rosin flux will do just as well.

FWIW, I've been soldering for half a century or more, and so far as I can discern, it hasn't affected ... what was I saying?









Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By R.W. Marty on 01/10/2009 8:58 AM
Good morning,
[edited]
Best to put an electric iron on a rheostat that way you can turn the heat down between solder joints 
but still keep the iron semi-ready.

Later
Rick Marty








Rick, I wonder if a light dimmer would work, providing the iron's wattage didn't exceed the dimmer's capability? This came up today in connection with a thread on resistance soldering.

I had no idea externally-heated irons were still being used. Bet I have 25 lbs of them, from tiny up to weapons-grade.

Live 'n learn, huh?

Les


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Les,
I'm sure a light dimmer will work as long, like you said, the iron wattage doesn't exceed the dimmers rating.
I have a light dimmer I rigged up to use on my electric pencil iron for working with foam. Works great.

Not only are externally heated irons still being used you can still buy them brand new. Granted most use of them
is now limited to the sheet metal/ tinners shops, where it is not at all uncommon to see 10-15 pairs hanging in the racks. 

Irons are traditionally sold in pairs based on weight. For example 3 oz, 6 oz, etc. and as some may not know they are 
actually copper not iron so the common name doesn't make much sense. It always cracks me up to go into some antique shop and 
they are asking two small fortunes for some old wore-out iron, when I tell them I can buy them brand new for 40$ a pair they think 
I'm fulla ****. O'well.

Your comments about acid flux are true and I agree with you IF we are talking about large items like roof jacks, gutters, cornices, etc.
but for model work I still recommend the flux I listed earlier. No corrosion and no cleanup and works on all surfaces I have tried (for model work)
not roofing or water tanks.



Later
Rick Marty


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Rick,

I certainly didn't know you could still buy those iron new. I thought they went out with the blowtorch.

Point well taken on rosin flux for model work. The cleanup certainly would be easier.

I'm going to try to find my dimmer switch this afternoon, then tomorrow perhaps I can start on my Resistance Solderer.

Les


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

There's a product called "Stay-Brite" that's 4% silver bearing solder. It has a slightly higer melting temperature than tin/lead solder (430* as opposed to 361-364*) but I've used it with a soldering iron. It will certainly work with a small torch. Its advantage is a much stronger joint. Stay-Brite is rated at 14000 psi shear strength (copper sleeve joint in tension).


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dwight,

How's it flow? Assuming the other 96% is lead? This is a new one on me. (Like most things nowadays). And, as Rick wondered, is it necessary in the modelling world? Does it clean up as easily as rosin flux? And, where do you get it?

Les


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

It is a good solder and is much stronger than 60-40 normal solder. I am not sure what the percentages are when the silver is part of the content. I am sure a google of the name will produce the appropriate tables. 

It must be noted that it is NOT to be considered the same as "silver solder" and is NOT to be used for boiler work. "I" would not trust it for fuel tank work either, (well, except alcohol  )


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Les,
Actually Stay-Brite is silver and tin, not lead. 
It flows well and is more suitable for some uses than 60/40 or other soft
solders as has been mentioned.

An example of use for me would be a locomotive frame or car frame. Do the main joints with 
stay-bright with it's higher melting temps, then do additional work with 60/40 with it's lower
melting temp. fine details can be applied with lower melt temp solders.

Chris is right, Stay-Bright is a low temp "soft solder" and not suitable for any kind of pressure vessel,
be it boiler, fuel tank, air tank, etc. 

I still believe that soft solders and irons, electric or external heat, are all that is really required for
99% of all modeling in large scale. I specifically exclude live steam modeling in my remarks as I do not 
do much work in that area and have no practical knowledge.

Later
Rick Marty


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