# Tired of living the lie.... (of gravel roadbed)



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't know about anyone else but I'm tired of saying my gravel roadbed is working great for me, or even good for that matter. Each year after we get pummeled by Northeast oHIo winters I rush outside to run some trains and find my layout a mess. It heaves, dips, buckles, twists..... you get the point. Then, when i think I get it all level the heavy spring rains come and mess it up, again. I end up with rocks and such wedged under the track to keep it level. I have "slow spots" where the track is so bad ya gotta slow down or roll trains over. "ENOUGH!!!" I say!! I know the 1:1 guys deal with it, but ya know? I'm not a 1:1 guy I'm a model railroader. I understand the elements change and nothing is perfect but if I would have done it right the first time I could be running trains right now and not messing with my layout.

Now, I know those who have track floating in gravel are gonna chime in with 'it works great for me!" and it might work for you. Or, you could be lieing like I was about the whole thing because you're afraid or ashamed to admit you made a mistake  . I say "NO MORE!!!!!" People with bad track bed unite!!!! stand for it no longer!!!! Tear it out!!! Start over!! track floating on gravel is a LIE!!!!! (at least in my backyard) 

Obviously I'm being a bit dramatic  But i did have some serious problems I just couldn't get right. I trenched deep, I tamped i ballasted and ballasted and ballasted. All to no avail. last year I was so tired of constantly screwing with my roadbed that I just gave up and let the layout grow over. Well with a new year comes new energy. I was at home Depot the other day and saw composite decking on sale, cheap. it was a bad color no one wanted. Grey, the same color as my ballast!! i bought a standard boat load of the stuff came home and started tearing my layout up. Man! i thought the thing was level..... lol not even close. 

So, I've set about tearing up my layout, building a ladder roadbed and reinstalling it. I have tried to read all i can on building it. The pitfalls and merits of doing so. if I can get my camera to work, I'll share the experience with ya'll. Then you can laugh at me, as i laugh at myself....

Pictures to follow (I hope) 

Terry


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

What kind of "gravel" are you (were you) using Terry?


----------



## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

We built a layout in Ohio using wood base back in the 1980s. The first winter (frost and warpage) did it in. 

But I agree on the gravel/float problems. 

The only way I have had to get gravel to work here in the TN heavy rains (washes the "sticky" out of crusher fines) is to cheat and mix in some Portland to help "hold" it in place.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe you Terry. 

I use large rough gravel, that just fits between the ties. I can hit it with a hose and it barely moves. We only get a few weeks a year of rain, and I levelled some track for the first time in 2 years recently (when testing some much smaller flange wheels). 

Some people have commented on how large my ballast is... I respond that the average raindrop is 8 inches in 1:29, so how can I expect scale ballast to work at all (I'm not up for gluing anything!!) 

Personally, I don't see how people have close to scale size ballast unless they do track maintenance a couple times a year. 

If I wanted scale size ballast, I would have a lot more work, and if I lived where there was a lot of rain or poor drainage I would think it would take a lot more maintenance. 

Question (just curiosity) what washes your ballast out? Rain itself, or the inability to keep water away from more of the base of your roadbed... it really sounds like you have washouts! 

Definitely not challenging your decision, but I like to find out why something works or did not work. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, 
I'll be watching your progress! 

im planning to start some ladder roadbed myself this year.. 
I have winters just as bad you you (western NY) 
(actually, most of the time I have your _actual_ weather, just a day later!)  

I like the ladder roadbed in theory..now im only worried about frost heave for the ladder supports.. 
but im sure it will be better than "gravel on the ground".. 

Scot


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I was using 4/11 for the base. it's #4 limestone and #11 limestone mixed with dust. it's the stuff that turns to near concrete when tamped. For ballast I started with chicken grit, crushed granite whatever your area calls it, but it washed away very easily. I switched to limestone dust/#4/crusher fines, again whatever the local's call it. It had much better staying power. Most of my roadbed was built up a few inches. drainage was never an issue it was washed out by rain and the occasional weed wacker assault  

I have pictures but I'm having a **** of a time with my camera. I'll have to wait till the wife gets home..... sad i know.


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, how deep and wide is your gravel roadbed? I've heard it needs to be 6" deep and 4" wide. 

I re-did my layout last year with the ladder and did not have to "tweak" a single thing after this winter. I think you will be very happy with it. I used the PVC board from Home Depot. My layout is not elevated so I didn't need the PVC pipe, I used pieces of rebar through the spacers to hold it in place (got that idea from some others on MLS).


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Terry,
Sorry you are having so much trouble this year. Is that why we have not seen you at the NOGRS meetings? It was a bad year for me also. The first year in 5 where I had about a dozen spots on the roadbed that washed away during that big spring rain that we all got. It took me about 1 week before I could run any trains, then another to make some needed modifications. I did take the time this year to make up some culverts and reinforced some weak points, so I'm hoping I don't see anything year as bad as this spring for some time. 



Mark
http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I was at least 6 inches deep at grade with 4 inches above grade and 8 inches wide.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

hey Mark! I made the last meeting, but the others have been on workdays. you got hit by that big rain too? it totally destroyed one section of my layout.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Works great for us out here in Southern California. You're not living a lie, you're just living in the wrong place.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

This is the back line in all of it's glory. overgrown and forgotten about. 

[url="


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Bummer it didn't work


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmmm. I can't fix the pics. any advice? 
got it. man photos sure got cumbersome


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Terry,
What did you have to do to get the pictures posted? I've tried the img in brackets way we used to use. Just won't work any longer.

I have several pictures posted of the washouts on my new web site at: http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/ that you can view. 

The problem I have, if you recall my layout, were you were sitting during the open house is a low spot. The east end is the high spot, about where my tunnel is is the lowest and then it goes upgrade a bit to the west end, which is lower than the east, but not lower than where the tunnel is positioned. So what happened this year is the water got high enough to get over my roadbed and washed through the tunnel down into my main staging yard. There was no ballast left inside of the tunnel, just track suspended in mid air. So there must have been a ton of water rushing through there. Never had that problems before. 

Anyway I have a fix that I'll be doing sometime this year, maybe. Since this is the only time in the last 5 years I've had this problem, maybe I can procrastinate for the next 4 years? Anyway, I plan on making a mountain range on the south side. So the lowest spot, now will have the mountain range there and will be like a big dam. The water level will eventually rise up high enough to move on down to the west end and away from the RR. Anyway, that's the plan. Hope it works. 

I have several other projects in the planning stage for this year, not sure which one will be #1. 

If you need a road crew, I'm sure I can get Gene and me to volunteer....

Mark
http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I post everything through photobucket. i used to use the img tag but now it requires the html tag. I'm sure there are better ways but it works for me. 

i was thinking of having a work day. 1 for the help and 2 so some of the new people and those without layouts can see another way to do things and maybe learn from my epic failure. Problem is, time is tight for me right now. Schedule change at work and the new volume of calls has me all messed up. I'll send out a club email when I do.


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I love the posting method using the first class web space. That alone makes it worth it for me, and that isn't even taking into account the money supports a great site


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By paintjockey on 22 Apr 2010 04:14 PM 
I don't know about anyone else but I'm tired of saying my gravel roadbed is working great for me, or even good for that matter. 
So, I've set about tearing up my layout, building a ladder roadbed and reinstalling it. I have tried to read all i can on building it. The pitfalls and merits of doing so. if I can get my camera to work, I'll share the experience with ya'll. Then you can laugh at me, as i laugh at myself....

Pictures to follow (I hope) 

Terry


I decided I wanted to avoid that from the beginning. I don't believe in 'floating' track down here in Houston where we get torrential rains all the time. The track would be 'floating' alright, right down the drain.

I use this stuff, but a ladder roadbed would work just the same.

http://www.gardenrailwayproducts.com/

I still use ballast, but it's only for looks as the track is fastened to the pvc roadbed. I use decomposed granite for my ballast as that is all that is available here. Gravel won't work very well as it just washes away.
jf


----------



## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I use ladder type roadbed but it does have one problem here in New England. Frost heaves the track up, ballast falls under the ladder, ground goes back down and the track stays up. Every Spring I fish the ballast out from under and beat the track back down. It's only a one day a year event but... 

Harvey C.


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Once you admit you have a problem







You can start the healing process









Does the stuff your using for your ladder roadbed Flex easily to make curves?

What is the sharpest curve you have made?

Keep us posted on your progress.


----------



## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

Terry.

You mentioned you're sinking your uprights about 3' in the ground. You're prboably pretty darn close to frost line at that depth. If you can get your local building codes and find out what frost depth is, you can drive your uprights below frost level and eliminate the heaving worries. My ladder roadbed failed due to heaving. If I were re-doing it with ladder, I'd probably have to do it this way.


Just a tip, but I was unable to re-sink the heaved posts after this winter, they simply wouldn't budge. That was my plan, just to relevel after the winter, but not so much.


----------



## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Hope the ladder works out for you and we don't have a "living the lie of ladder roadbed" post next Spring.

I use gravel myself. 1/4 inch, no fines. Stays put and has survived a 12 inch rain. In my" cut" the roadbed acts as a drain.
8-12 inches of gravel and the water flows underneath the track.

Ralph


----------



## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

as I set forth to build my new layout I have done the latter method and after my first winter with it I am very happy I feel it is way better then just balast and track on the ground as my last one was ... so far I feel the extra work and cost will pay out ten fold in work needed down the road ...... wellcome to your new life in g-scale


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

You don't need to have gravel. You could mix the crusher fines with concrete and sand, and perhaps some sifted peat. Experiment with it in different mixtures on a test basis. It takes a week to fully harden and for the color to "settle." 

I'm sure you won't regret it. You don't HAVE to float track in gravel to have an effective and beautiful line.


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Part of your old problem is the limestone will dissolve in water. If you get a lot of rain and snow, that's where your ballast has gone.

For me, I am getting tired of the yearly battle with the track. I am currently floated ballast. I am planning to rebuild the railroad next year, and amd seriously considering using concrete roadbed. I wouldn't call floating roadbed a lie. It is a cost effective way to get your railroad built. It costs more to maintain than other methods and requires more maintenance. That's all. Just trade offs.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

My frost line hovers around 24 inches, 3 feet should be good (i hope). JJ, The material flexes fairly well. My mainline uses 20' dia. turns which is no problem for it at all. The sidings get a bit tighter but I was test bending the material and didn't seem to have a problem. I was considering concrete but i have serious commitment issues.... The ladder base while semi permanent can still be taken up and reused. 
Mark, the whole post while true is done a bit tongue in cheek. I started with the gravel roadbed for cost reasons and because i could get it up and running quicker. But, in retrospect the amount of time i have lost in operations due to maintenance and frustration has probly cost me more.
Terry


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, looking grand thus far!


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well some day you may learn about drainage. Looks like that is your biggest problem that you are having. Bet you still have problems even with your new set up. You ever seen a real RR not having some sort of drainage? Good luck on your new adventure. Later RJD


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Some reading I just came across concerning "frost line" and post depth: 

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/123906-frost-line-depth-wny.html 

http://forum.doityourself.com/fences-gates/265247-posts-frost-line.html 

2 feet is doable.. 
I should probably do 3 feet just to be safe.. 
I dont think im going to dig 4 foot holes.. 

Scot


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By hcampbell on 22 Apr 2010 08:36 PM 
I use ladder type roadbed but it does have one problem here in New England. Frost heaves the track up, ballast falls under the ladder, ground goes back down and the track stays up. Every Spring I fish the ballast out from under and beat the track back down. It's only a one day a year event but... 

Harvey C. 


Harvey,
were you using posts? or just the ladder roadbed right on the ground?
if you were using posts, how deep were they?

thanks,
Scot


----------



## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

I will add my 2 cents, depending on where you are(me south of Chicago) I think 1.5 in PVC pipe is the way to go, I noticed you were using 2x2 or something like it, anything with a flat bottom or a lot of surface area will heave, I have noticed with the pipe it does not have much surface area, in my case has not heaved at all(2 seasons).

I understand it has to do with where you are, so that is going to be your deciding factor, I happen to live in an area that gets a lot of frost heave.

Tom H


----------



## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot: 
I've forgotten how deep I set the posts, must be about 3' with the fill. I'ld have been better off without them but I'm running in a raised bed and put the track in 1st and then filled in 
up to track level. It's interesting that the track is in good running condition during the January thaw but rather a roller coaster by the Spring thaw. 

Harvey C.


----------



## Schlosser (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, aka paintjockey, I'm too old to have an on the ground layout; never had one but having lived quite a few years in Illinois and New York, I have experienced cold weather.

I once lived in Millbrook NY and drove on Route 82 down to Verbank. In the cold of winter, those concrete slabs would sometimes be inches out of line vertically, making the drive much slower. Frost heaves (water expands when it turns to ice) and it doesn't care who or what is on the surface. But when spring returned, the pavement was heavy enough to drop back down and assume its original position, and so the road was level again. 

Now your roadbed is not heavy enough to push back at springtime. Your stakes going past frost level MIGHT work, but from what I have heard they have to be embedded in something BELOW the frost level to stay where you want them. That way, the dirt above keeps the anchor from moving upward when the frozen soil expands, grabs your post, and lifts it upwards.

Posts should not be set in concrete, though; that makes them rot. Collars are needed to surround the post to let moisture pass through. Fence posts only need a collar at ground level as the fence is heavy enough to keep the post in position. But an unloaded post needs a collar below frost level to keep it in position the year around. _Caution_: do not put nails in the posts so that the concrete has a better hold. Nails rust, expand, and will split the concrete. Instead, notch the posts, or use non-rusting gadgets to make the post irregular in shape.

Heavy rains pose another problem. Water will not be denied; it _insists_ on flowing down hill. You can reroute it, or provide culverts, but you must provide for the flow if you don't want washouts. But if the culverts or channels are not large enough, flooding and washouts will continue.

The additions to the forum above indicate this info may be too late. But if something needs to be readdressed, the info might be of value.

Art


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The picture with the bridge over an open area which would funnel water to the track on the ground makes me completely believe the problems with washouts. 

I would not, though, call "gravel roadbed" a lie, it's just that for your drainage (or lack of) and your surroundings (looks large and flat and no natural watercourses) and the way you built it, it does not work. 

I did find the post where the heaving upwards of ladder track allowed ballast/gravel to go underneath and require later removal and pounding the ladder back down interesting. 

I'm thinking that if you have a frost heave situation, maybe you always need air space under your ladder. I know this is not what you are doing, and might not be applicable, but just interesting learning from the other experiences here. 

I know you did not ask for opinions on how to do your new layout or admonitions on what you did wrong, but it's a great thread to share experiences. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

So, I've set about tearing up my layout, building a ladder roadbed and reinstalling it. I have tried to read all i can on building it. The pitfalls and merits of doing so. if I can get my camera to work, I'll share the experience with ya'll. Then you can laugh at me, as i laugh at myself....

This is your layout and, why would anyone laugh at you? You want to keep your layout in a good state so you can run trains. Be proud.

Regards, and good luck, Dennis.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

OK Terry, I figgured it out, I think I'se knows what happened! 

G stands for Garden, what you need is a Lawn RR, I think those start at 7 1/2" ga.!!! 

Best of luck with your ladder. 

John


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Man o man I would love a ride on 7 1/2 guage train. I'm pretty sure my wife would end my existance though. Greg, the low spot under the bridge is a pond. It's the lowest spot in my yard and my layout drains into it. 

It's still rainy and miserable outside. Maybe some work tonight....


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 25 Apr 2010 07:25 AM 
OK Terry, I figgured it out, I think I'se knows what happened! 

G stands for Garden, what you need is a Lawn RR, I think those start at 7 1/2" ga.!!! 

Best of luck with your ladder. 

John 

I think tha tis G to the 7 1/2 power. 

Sorry can't do scientific notation here


PS Use your Slide Rule


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I used to have all kinds of maintenance woes each Spring using floating track on a gravel roadbed. No longer! I utilized bricks rather than poured concrete but the result was essentially the same. I found that the bricks don't "heave" the way posts do and the #2 poultry grit seems to allow for decent drainage without the hassle of major washouts on a regular basis! Case in point: Yesterday, I got the F-Scale trains out on the layout for the first time this year. I decided to run my BBT 2-8-0 "Bumblebee" Annie (which I had just finished re-painting the lower half silver which really helps!) The train ran the entire layout with only one derailment (which was due to debris on the track - I should have checked first! My bad.) Next, I ran my regular Annie and Connie double headed around the high loop and I only had one disconnection and no derailments due to a track leveling problem and this was after a winter without doing _any_ leveling! For me, at least, floating ballast works!


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 23 Apr 2010 06:53 PM 
Some reading I just came across concerning "frost line" and post depth: 

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/123906-frost-line-depth-wny.html 

http://forum.doityourself.com/fences-gates/265247-posts-frost-line.html 

2 feet is doable.. 
I should probably do 3 feet just to be safe.. 
I dont think im going to dig 4 foot holes.. 

Scot 


As I recall there was a fellow here (Mark you out there somewhere?) that I've met from the Toronto area in the Canadian Gaurd stationed overseas for the last few years or so that had built a line on a pseudo deck and ran into frost heave issues and was digging underneath to a greater depth with great difficulty by hand to por true footers and set proper posts. 

Chas


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Finally some progress!! Every day I have been able to do som ework it has rained! BOOOOOO!!! At any rate I got a bit of work done in Amboy. The main has made it through. Hopefully I'll get to some sidings tomorrow.

The hard part of what I'm doing now is makin the roadbed fit the track. I figure it would be much easier to bend the track to the roadbed but I like my yard the way it was.... Here I'm trying to line up the switch.

[url="


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking grand! I had the same issue about getting the ladder to "fit" the track where I had some pre-curved track. Much easier if you can use flex track and make the track fit the ladder. I did like you also, got the idea from someone on MLS, to attach the spacers on one side before laying it out.


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Yes it is really nice and taking shape.


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking real good. 

You can make track into flex track just simply take out the screws on the bottom side on the ties. I taken curved track all sizes and made them into straights or a new size curve. I use Aristo-Craft dual rail bender. You don't even need a bender if you not making a big adjustment.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

livesteam, thats exactly what i did. my problem is that I already had the thrack the way i wanted it so now I have to make the ladder base match the track instead of bending the track to match the ladder bed. I didn't get anything done today Daughter's feild trip in the AM and rain this evening. 

Terry


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Look on the bright side Terry, if you had laid concrete, you would be jackhammering the roadbed out, rather than "tweaking" your ladder track. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah the joy of track maint. Later RJD


----------



## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Follow up on the gravel with Portland post the Nashville floods..... 

Despite nearly 20" of rain in 36 hours, the parts that were "cemented" have done well. Cannot say the same for the other bits. 

Guess what the next step is?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 22 Apr 2010 04:46 PM 
We built a layout in Ohio using wood base back in the 1980s. The first winter (frost and warpage) did it in. 

But I agree on the gravel/float problems. 

The only way I have had to get gravel to work here in the TN heavy rains (washes the "sticky" out of crusher fines) is to cheat and mix in some Portland to help "hold" it in place. 
Unless I need new glasses, the only post you have made on this thread is the one above, 1 month ago.

So is this what you are referring to, mixing in some portland cement? How much, how do you do the mixing, how did you wet it down, did you use a wetting agent?


Regards, Greg


----------



## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, I think I remember the post where they talked about this!! They mix a mixture which is light enough consistency , to be able to put in a spray bottle and then spray the ballast after it is set the way they want it, spray it, and let it set and set up, and what I have read it holds the ballast in place. Regal


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have posted this before. I use a cement mixer. I put in about 5 or 10 gal buckets of ballast. I add about two 2lb of portland cement maybe three. I mix it dry. Then I ballast. After everyting is in place I wet it with a fine spray from the garden hose. Ihave a canyon that sometimes turns into a creek when it rains. The ballast withstands that. Got for a bout 3 years before it may need touching up. Sometimes the portland cement makes it too gray so I add color.


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

John,
Can you post a few pictures? I would be interested in seeing a closeup of the roadbed. I never thought of doing it this way, but it seems logical. I have one area in particular that I might like to try this on. So please post a close up picture, or two. 

Oh ya, did you tint the mixture, or just go with the strait concrete color? 

Thanks.Mark

http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Terry,
It looks like you have made nice progress. Don't do it all or there won't be anything for the work crew to do when we show up, except run trains. Darn....

Mark
http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/


----------



## 3lphill (Feb 22, 2008)

Good Afternoon, 
Re: your need for quick clamps. Have you tried cutting "C"s from plywood that you wedge on? the spacing is constant so they could be cut with a tight fit or you could tap some door shims in to make them very tight. 
Phillip


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I thought of that but it would have involved buying more wood. The clamps were on hand, they are actually for holding together my modular layout and i got em real cheap at harbor freight $.99 a piece!!


----------



## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

I was actually thinking about just laying some of these plastic boards down on the dirt flat. The only issue would be the bends which I had planned to cut strips. Your method actually looks better though. I will have to give it some thought. The stuff I have seen is like 1 by 6. Are you ripping it in half to get each side?


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually I rip it in thirds. 2 for the sides and 1 for the middle.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Progress slow but sure. The work is easy, I just haven't had any time!

The passing siding at amboy being roughed in. as you can see I have 'acquired' my sons radio flyer for a work cart. I paid him in popcicles for it today, my price will prolly go up though.

[url="


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Almost have amboy done. A little more work on the house track and i'll be ready to move on. 

[url="


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice progress, how many feet of track do you have?


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good but sure a lot of work. Later RJD


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Hah! It's only work, if you get paid for it. 
Tis a labor of ....like. 
Sure would 'like' to see trains run again! 

Looking Good! 
John


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not sure how much track i have, I've never measured it. I'll put that on my to do list. 
As far as work, yes it really is. But I enjoy it and i hope the big effort will be a big payoff in the end.


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Havign had to recently move all my track again from one storage unit to my garage and "shoe horn" it in there, I'm sure I do not have enough long pieces to get all the way around my yard and back?


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

When you work hard and don't get paid for it. It is called a "Labor of Love" All the volenteers at the Fairplex may come under that heading ( Just a Example)


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Some more work done.... 
I'm not sure if I'm going to quit here for the year or keep going. Doing all this work i find it amazing how much the ground has moved and just how 'unlevel' i thouht my immaculate track work was. At any rate the North end of the layout is done! Now on to the easy part!! 

Here is Amboy. Kinda hard to see and that's a good thing, the decking material blends in nice! This was a real pain to do because I had to match the existing track and switches. The other half of the layout should be quick and easier because it's a single track main line. 

 


This is the connecting track off Buck's curve. You can see where the back line will intersect with it. if you look iin the distance you can see where the back line has heaved and looks like a roller coaster. My sons trusty radio flyer sits at the ready. 

 

Hopefully I'll get some more done today or tomorrow. 

Terry


----------



## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

I had a section of "gravel" laid track running toward the house. The biggest problem I had was actually the dog cleaning her feet after doing her business and sending the siding completely off the roadbed. There were a couple of sacrificial Aristocraft track joiners in the run instead of having broken ties and stuff with the Split Jaw ones. 

Most of my layout is actually 2x6 treated lumber with some form of support underneath it. A few weeks ago I implemented that approach and then held that in place with the gravel. The track is screwed in 2 places to the wood road bed using SS screws. Actually I haven't used real gravel, up to now it has been paver base because I found stuff that looks sort of prototypical and after a few rain storms it builds up a bit of a crust. 

I do have to admit that I don't have to worry about frost heave. On the other hand I often get a river running under some of the track and the paver base and the roadbed has stayed in place. 

If I still lived up north, I would bury stakes a few feet into the ground and anchor the roadbed to that, back filling it with the gravel.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Some more work completed. Working the single line is so much faster and easier than trying to fit roadbed to the track. 

Here is the switch to the backline. The switch leads to the south end of Amboy.

[url="


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

lookin gooooood!

The heat and humidity here in Virginia is a B.

BTW, I can't get the title of this post "Tired of living the lie" out of my head. Plays like a song.

Keep up good work!


----------



## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Well, I may be one of the lucky ones. I searched many gravel pits until I found what I felt was the ideal ballast. It is definately larger than scale but it has packed down VERY well for my first year out in Michigan weather. Here is a link to the post:

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

Hopefully you can get an idea of how I ran my track. Average ballast depth is about 2". I do know that the ballast has all sharp edges and tends to lock down in place. I suspect that the aluminum metal drip edging (from Lowes) that I used may have helped quite a bit to in keeping everything together. Because the edge of the drip edge is black and the insdie is grey it made it was natural to run the ballast just over the top of the edge which gave it a fairly good look but allowed everything to stay in place during heavy rains. 

This past weekend we had about 4" of rain in just over an hour and the track is still happy and all there.

This year I simply had to add some ballast to several areas that I did not tamp down (come to think of it, I didn't tamp ANY of it down!







Either way I have had very little maintenance on the track.

Rich


----------



## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

So I went to Home Depot and started looking at what to do. The plastic wood stuff here is $35 for 16 foot. This approach really starts to add up. What was the cost per board you had?


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I use the Veranda decking I believe it's the Home depot brand, normal price of $20 for 12 foot piece. But, they put it on sale frequently. Also sort through the pile if you can they have alot of pieces with bad color spots in them. The store mngr sells them to me for 50% off.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Finally!! More work done. A friend came and helped me finish the back line a week or so ago but i forgot to post the pictures. Today I rounded the back curve and I'm almost on the home stretch. I also got some much needed weeding done today! 

here's the back line done, the track is just laying there waiting for me to install it...

[url="


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well as they say slow but sure. Your getting there and lots of work to do. It will all pay off in the long run. Later RJD


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

There must be a future tunnel in the works? I see some drainage tile in the back of several of your new pictures. 

Very nice progress so far. 

Mark
http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

That tile is from an old tunnel but is gonna be used again. The portals need redone though. But, I need to come up with about 80 billion tons of dirt to build my mountain, the tunnel will be part of that.


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Maybe a pond would be in order. Dig a big hole, take the dirt from the hole and use that in the mountain. The bigger the pond, the bigger the mountain.....

Simular to what I just did. For the last 20 years, my burn pile has been getting higher and higher with left over ashes. I also needed some dirt to build a new mountain range, which also is helping me with my flood control problems. I dug a hole next to the burn pile large enough to put all my ash into. The dirt was more than enough for my mountain range. I now don't have a burn pile issue, but do have a mountain range. The side benefit was a nice supply of ash for my plants. 

Mark


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

FINALLY!!! The bas for the mainline is done!! This project has taken much too long. Not from the scope of work but from weather, life lil problems etc....
At any rate I finished the mainline today! Now i can start to lay some track and run some trains. 

Here's the finished curve at Shady Pines

[url="


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

SUCCESS!!!! I started two days ago putting track down. this afternoon I completed it and ran my first loco to see how it would work. Other than 1 dirty switch it went through flawlessly!! Here's some pictures of the track work. I still have a ton of fill (literally) to put in but the main is up and running!!

Here is Amboy yard-

[url="


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Terry,
The seaons getting short now. How are the changes coming and are you running trains yet?
Mark


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark, I'm far from done but i am running trains. I didnt get to many of the sigings yet but the mailline is complete less ballast. I get most of my work done in the spring and fall but funds are low at the moment, bummer. But, little by little i'm getting there.


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Everything looks great so far Terry. Let us know how you make it through spring. I guess that is the true test on how your changes worked out. 
Mark


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, we have had some really wet weather than some really cold weather which i would assume effects the frost line. I checked the layout today and it appears nothing has moved yet! The jury is still out though until spring. Keep your fingers crossed!


----------



## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Good to hear on the wet/cold thus far. I think a lot of the problems we had in the 1980s were also due to warpage of the PT, which the plastic should not do. I just bought a bunch for another project (formal covered front porch) and have found that it is MUCH cheaper (and better grade) from a supply house or lumber yard Vs. the big box stores. I got top grade Trex stuff for less than the base stuff sold by Lowes. 

My Portland/Crusher Gravel has done well except a few cracks after a first frost, but no major wash-outs. Going to re-work the rest of the line when it warms up.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Success!! The frost has broken in the area and the track base appears to be unmoved! Aside from a small area where the track base warped in which was due to my error, the track is unmoved!! I was hoping for this. I'm hoping to start the sidings soon and get all my ballasting done.

Terry


----------



## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

What was your error that caused the heave. I'm about to start my building and I dont want to repeat it. My ladder building method will be very similar to yours.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

it didn"t heave, it warped from the pressure of the decking material trying to straigten. When I installed the stakes i didn't put them on edge with the turn in that area so they warped and bent over. Not a huge deal and easy to fix. 

Terry


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Little more work done. This is a cross over and when finished it will be a small town or industry. The track bed has held up great I think all my effort has paid off. 

 

The switch is home grown and works like a champ. I'm a little leary about the frog as it has no mechanical connections it's only held together with the track spikes. I may have to replace it with one of my new switches, we'll see.


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

More work on the layout. This is the spur off the home grown switch above. 


[url="


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's the pic i accidently deleted above of track being laid and the train li rail bender.

[url="


----------

