# Airwire with NCE Controller, and functionality (?)



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I just finished installing a G2/Phoenix P8 combo in a loco I'm doing for my dad, partly with the intention of seeing how the G2 plays with the NCE controller I've got, since I like Phoenix's sound library and sound functions a bit more than QSIs at the moment. (Always subject to change with new revisions.) Anyway, I know there are "known issues" when it comes to programming some of the CVs on the G2 via the NCE controller (for instance, you apparently cannot set the loco number), but I was hoping to be able to avail myself of more of the NCE controller's functions, especially the easily-variable momentum control. 

The whistle, bell, and headlight buttons all work as advertised, the directional whistles, lights, etc. all work (as is also expected). The loco is a delight to operate via that controller--much easier than either of the two Airwire controllers--but I couldn't get the decoder to respond to the momentum adjustment. I happen to really like that aspect of the NCE/QSI combination (as well as the Revolution, though not as quickly set) and would love to be able to control the momentum using that function key. Is there a trick, or is the only viable solution to program CV3 and CV4 and run the loco in 28 speed step mode? 


Related to that, what mode of programming on the NCE controller do you use to adjust the CVs on the G2 that can be adjusted via that controller? (I did my testing tonight just using the default settings.)

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin, do you have the "voice announcement" set on the QSI (where it announces the cv number and the setting)? 

28 speed step mode should have nothing to do with momentum setting at all. 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Not QSI, AirwireG2. It beeps when you program the CVs, but that's about it. The Airwire controller ignores the momentum and speed curve CVs (CV 3 - 5) when running at 128 speed steps. (I forget their exact verbiage, but it's on the lines of "direct drive." Essentially, what-you-dial-is-what-you-get.) I did get an Airwire controller to program the decoder, including momentum and headlight. The NCE recognizes the momentum settings (even at 128 speed steps, which I find nice), but you still cannot adjust them using the "Momentum" button on the NCE controller as you can do with the QSI board. I was hoping there was a convenient workaround or just something I was missing. Beyond the programming issues, I've found the NCE/AirwireG2/Phoenix combination to be one of the best running experiences I've had. Now, if only my PB9 would connect to the flippin' software, I could reprogram the board to something I like. (Phoenix is working with me to resolve that.) 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry Kevin, screwed up for some reason. 

The nce controller sends the settings for CV3 and CV4 "back to back" when setting the momentum. Rapid fire. 

Some decoders cannot handle this. (The specific case of the QSI is it must complete it's announcement before issuing another command, disabling the verbal ack allows it to work)... 

Sounds like the commands are coming too fast for the G2... I'm assuming you can set CV3 and CV4 successfully "normally" from the NCE? 

Regards, Greg


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Now, if only my PB9 would connect to the flippin' software, I could reprogram the board to something I like. (Phoenix is working with me to resolve that.) 
Kevin, when you get a solution to this problem, please let us know. Drives me nuts, if I play around with the com port assignments long enough I eventually get connected.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Thank, Jim. It's strangely reassuring to know it's not just me. I was on the phone with Phoenix (I apologize, I forget the gentleman's name), and he talked me through a few different test points to check various voltages. I read them off to him, and he said something wasn't quite right there. He was going to get together with the engineers and see if they had any ideas. This, of course, after I was able to successfully _connect_ to a P8 board I had, but in the process of downloading a new file, somehow managed to kill the board. (Why I called them in the first place...) The voltage values for the board there made no sense to them either, so that one's already slated to go back. So, I'm not exactly batting 1.000 with adding new sounds to the boards today. I'm half tempted to ship my PB9 back with the P8 and just let them load the sounds for me. 

Greg, interesting explanation on the way the NCE does the momentum control. I figured something like that to be the case where it essentially has "preset" values for those CVs to correspond to the 0 - 9 settings, and it just sets them in one instruction packet. I haven't tried programming the momentum values via the NCE specifically, because it's something I was looking to be able to do quickly. Instead, either via the NCE or Airwire controller, you'd have to individually set the CVs to change the value. 'Tis easier to just find a reasonable "average" value and run with it at that point. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A little correction.... it sends two commands, one for cv3 and one for cv4, but the difference from a human doing it is how quickly the second command follows the first. 

There is nothing different, illegal, or strange about the cv3 and cv4 commands. I believe the manual tells you what 0-9 correspond to in cv3 and cv4. 

(note, I am not aware that you can combine the programming of 2 cvs in one packet, so I believe the above is correct because it MUST be 2 separate packets)


Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Understood on the back-to-back packets; essentially a single macro that sends two individual CV programming commands. 

BTW, I just came up from the workshop where I tried to program CVs 3, 4, and 5 from the NCE under "service mode." Didn't work for me. (I believe I've heard others say it can be done, but I sure couldn't get it to work, hence my questions here.) Fortunately, Caboose Hobbies had an Airwire controller in stock when dad and I went over this afternoon. That's precisely what I was hoping to avoid having to do, but on the other hand, the Airwire controller is much simpler for my daughter to use when she wants to run, so I guess it's not for naught. 

In terms of controlling the train once the decoder is programmed, all the functions seem to be there and work well. One big difference; the "big red STOP button" doesn't quickly stop the loco regardless of the momentum settings as it does with the QSI decoder. It does bring the loco to a stop, but at the rate of deceleration dictated by CV4. So, if you're going full tilt just to ascertain what your top speed is, then have to stop the loco because of some obstruction, well, let's just say I ain't Denzel Washington, and dad's freshly-shopped Big-Hauler-turned-2-8-0 now needs a new front pilot. 

Later, 

K


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