# Is there an easy fix for converting a loco to accept trail car power?



## noela (May 22, 2008)

Does anybody know if there is an easy fix for adapting a loco (or tender) for getting power from a trailing battery car? I know that I have to isolate track pick-up, but will be starting a project in the fall that will have me converting several locos, and am looking for a way to get them done as quickly and efficiently as possible. I don't have the wherewithal to develop circuit boards, unless the volume for such a job increases dramatically. Ideally, I would like to be able to have the finished products run on track or battery power. I have been doing this by isolating the wheel pickups and running through DPDT cnt off switches and then wiring in a jack to use the trail car. Makes for a lot of close work, and with what's coming up, a simple plug in would be great. Is it wishful thinking?
Thank you.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

a simple plug in would be great. 
Noela, 

That's how I did my first battery conversion. LGB makes a power connector for use between locos and the following train - some of their locos are already equipped with a socket for passing power for train lighting, etc. You don't have to use LGBs version - I think Aristo has something similar, as they sell battery trail cars. Any small power plug/socket from Radio Shack will do, as long as you standardise them. I use the 274-1573, or you can use the plugs that come on r/c car power packs. 

Your DPDT switch is all that is needed in the loco.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Noela. As Pete posted you can use the Radio Shack connectors but a great number of the batery car installations use the 2 pin plugs found in this link.

All Electronics 2 pin connector

They're compatible with the Aristo Craft locomotives with the MU cables.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

You may find this product helpful in some of your applications. Battery Conversion Module. It can be used in your tender or trailing car.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm reading the original post a little differently than Pete, Stan, and Del.... 

Yes, it's wishful thinking, there is no "drop in" solution to convert a loco over, i.e. disconnecting track pickups, feeding power out the back. 

You will have to do some cutting of wires, and probably some soldering. I'm assuming you want to avoid any possibility of feeding power to the tracks / the ability to withstand a direct short between any of the wheels on the loco. 

Some locos will be easier than others, but, in my opinion, you will still need to check a few things out with a meter to be sure. 


Regards, Greg


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## BillBrakeman (Jan 3, 2008)

To me it sounds like Noela knows how to do what he wants to do, but he is looking for an easier way of doing it and away that avoids working in the confines of the engine. If this is the case you might consider the following 

In the engine 
1. Cut the track pick-up wires in two. 
2. Get a 12-Position European-Style Mini Terminal Strip, Model: 274-680 from Radio Shack. Cut it into three (3) 4-position strips. If the T strip is too large for the work area you might consider screw-on wire connectors. 
3. On one side of the strip fasten the four track lead wires B-R-B-R. 
4. On the other side fasten the four wires from a 4-wire connector Catalog # CON 440 from allelectronics.com. the order could be B to B, R to R, Y to B, and BL to R. I am not real sure if the is a low-voltage wire code other than black is negative and red is positive. 

In the trailing car 
1. Fasten another terminal strip and wire it identically to the strip in the engine. 
2. To the end posts of a DPDT switch fasten the RED and Black Wires from the T strip and the battery connector wires. 
3. To the common poles on the switch fasten yellow and blue wires and run them to the T strip. Be careful to match the polarity of the wires in the car to the wires in the engine. 
4. Mount the switch and battery wherever and however it is most convenient for you. 

With this method only one small component is added to the engine, very little soldering is done and any soldering that needs to be done can done outside either the engine or the trailing car. 

Bill


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The reason I said it was wishful thinking is that separating the track pickups from the motor is not always as simple as "1. Cut the track pick-up wires in two. " 

I've found situations where the track pickup wires first "visibility" was AFTER they were connected to a motor lead. 

On LGB, you may find this a large metal rod, not a wire to cut. 

So, that's the tricky part. Adding connectors and switches is really the easier part of the deal, because you are in control of that part of the modification. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

As others have said, there is no simple explanation. 
Locos vary. Some quite considerably. 
Perhaps the best way of explaining is to suggest you ask for the information for specific locos. 
I am sure there is someone who has done it for pretty well every loco. 

My only real suggestion would be that once the wiring to the switch is done, use the connectors that Stan mentions above to connect the trail car to the loco. 
I sell them with much longer and heavier leads than normally available. But, they are expensive. As is the case with most better quality things.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

My suggestion would be to fire up those 3 new bridgewerk packs and leave BATTERYS for the remotes.......Just a thought. by the way when we gettin togeather to run? Im itchin to see what you got?







I truely kid cause i reallly do care...............


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Good morning Nick,
Love to get together as soon as we can. I was supposed to start treatments again today, but it has been re-scheduled for September. Tomorrow won't be good because we're getting ready to have our driveway done. I'm actually doing these conversions for some clients, and figured that I would do a few of mine also. The idea is to have the ability to run track power or battery power, giving much more flexibility in operations. Also a move on the economics side, cheaper to set up several locos for trailing car service than it is to have it self contained. Even if I provide a couple of trailing cars (complete set ups) it would be cheaper than creating just self contained engine units. Let me know your sked, and we'll figure out when we can get together.

Noel


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Thank you so much for everybody's help. I will be doing quite a few of these conversions, different engines, but the final product will be an engine that will be switchable from track power to battery power, utilizing trail car or tender for the battery/sound/receiver placement. I am sure that I will need help on specific engines, and I will be seeking it when I do. Personally, I still have a few completely self contained units on the bench that need completion, but have been put on hold for quite a while. My goal, as has been mentioned here, is for standardization wherever possible. Some of these conversions will be for multiple units, and as such, will require a beefier electrical set up. I am also considering making the batteries replaceable in trail units, so I could just swap out the batteries to charge them, rather than disconnect the car and put a new one on. Bad thing about getting up early is that the mind tends to be very creative, when the body is less than willing. Again, thank you. If you're in the area, let me know, so we can commiserate and run. My layout is now up and running, albeit with a few minor glitches, and they're being adjusted every time we find one. We can do track power, steam (the layout is virtually level) and battery/Radio Control (I do believe that we could also set up for DCC, but haven't looked into that, would need an expert in this area to do so). There are two 750' loops with sidings and a classification yard (which still needs some work) that can handle 100+ cars along with two set-up/break-up tracks. There are also 4 "industrial" sidings (although they are just that right now, sidings) that can handle about 50 cars


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

By the way, I answered your question, the first question to say "yes, it's wishful thinking to easily convert all locos to power from trailing car"... 

It's definitely more complex to make them switchable. Now you need to understand more about the specific wiring of your locos, not just cut wires until the track pickups are disconnected. 

You also really need to sit back and determine what control system you are going to use, since that will affect how you do your conversions. 

I know you said "My goal, as has been mentioned here, is for standardization wherever possible." this will be tough, but it can be done, but remember your costs will mount. 

Most people go to battery power because of cost issues. Either it's cheaper to not power the track, or the r/c system seems to be less costly over other track powered systems. 

By wanting both, in my mind, you are throwing cost out the window. When you mention you want multiple unit lashups, and long trains, I question why you are considering battery. 

When you get to a number of locos all running at the SAME time, battery power easily costs more, especially if you are capable of long trains... just too many batteries in use at the same time and too much amps, too many chargers, etc. 

If cost is no issue, what you want can be done, but I think you are making it too complex. 

I'd go either battery or track power for your own locos. You will also want to consider if trailing cars will be your standard way to power things... if you have a lot of locos, that will keep costs down (again, a lot of locos points you in the track power direction) 

Regards, Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Greg, 
Thank you again. My choices are based on my situation, as well as those that come to run on my layout. I have 37 locos, some of which can never have anything other than track power, and I run them for show, rather than service, my Grand Kids love them, and they can run them with hand held units. I have some completely self contained units, and they are nice, but, they are expensive. I can't possibly consider having a fleet of 33 locos costing over $1000 each, just for the sake of maintaining self contained. Likewise, I have units that will need to be converted to battery power, but until then, I will be running them on track power. Cost is, of course, a serious consideration, and while I do have many of the supplies needed to do the job, I must make sure that I use them wisely. I can, if I so choose, make a multiple unit lash-up and run for quite a while using LiON batteries with all kinds of current capacity, or, if I choose, I could merely run the unit on track power, and do the same thing. I run multiple trains on the same track, and the flexibility of battery power and track power allows for switching operations, as well as make up and breakup operations. I have kept the wiring part of the layout simple, two 750' loops, and one 200' classification yard. Each of the loops has two sidings totaling 100', and they are wired to the loop they are on. I just removed the two reverse loops I had because they were creating some problems that would have required some extensive work to fix, and I just wanted to keep it simple. Effectively, with the double dog-bone, I will have very little need for reverse loops as the two continuous loops are easier to run than a point to point or point to loop configuration. Perhaps when I add the twon part of the layout, I will consider adding reverse loops again, but that's not going to happen til at least next year, possibly later. 
Thanks again. 

Noel


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

It would still prove helpful if we knew which locos you are contemplating converting.


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Tony, 
The list will be extensive, although they will all be USA, Bachmann and Aristo-Craft units. As far as I know, there will be no LGB conversions. This is the list: 
1. Aristo-Craft units 
Pacifics 
Mikados 
FA's 
Dash 9's 
RS3's 
SD45's 
GP40's 

2. USA Trains 
S4's 
SD70MAC's 
GP30's 
F3's 
GP38-2's 
GP7's 
GP9's 
SD40-2's 
NW2's 
44 Tonners 

3. Bachmann 
Original Shays 
Prairie's 

These will be clients and personal units, and I have been asked to start on them as soon as the weather gets to cold to run (which I expect to be around the end of November or in December). I service based on receipt of units, and while most of them will be trailing car orders, there will be quite a few self contained. 

As of this time, like I mentioned, I do not have any LGB locos lined up, and have not had any additional Aristo Doodlebugs come in for conversion, perhaps later in the year. No Aristo Mallets or E units either. I have no USAT PA's lined up. Being the pragmatist, I would like to think that this is going to be a good conversion season, but I also know that the economy is not great shakes, and many of the people that want these things done may not be able to have them done due to financial restraints. I am hoping to get at least 20 units over the winter for conversion. I sure am glad that the economy is improving, just wish that I could see it, rather than hear about it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you used QSI, you could convert all to DCC with sound for about $150 each. The conversions of the USA trains units would be the "quick and dirty" method to power the internal board from the QSI, so the lights would not be constant brightness. 

The Aristo locos would be constant brightness. 

You would have complete remote control of 30 sounds under DCC and the SAME number under DC, although you can only control the sounds of single locos on DC when they are on the same track. 

The DC remote control of sounds is $45 for 1-2 locos. There is a much higher power unit that will handle about 30 amps that you can get if you are running a bunch of locos on DC on the same track and circuit. 

With the number of locos you have, and again, the implication that a number of them would be running at the same time, the most economical and flexible answer in my opinion, with remote control and sound would be DCC (but remember that all locos so converted would still operate on DC too). 

DCC wireless coverage can be extended to cover an area the size of a football field. Any wireless unit can control any loco/locos. 

Again, the Aristo conversions would be plugging into the Aristo socket, and in some cases, 2 wires to a speaker, although most Aristo's connect the speaker with a supplied cable. 

The "quick and dirty" conversion of USAT locos takes 4 connectors and NO soldering and the original wiring can be restored in about 30 seconds once you have the shell off. 

Regards, Greg


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Noel, here are some of our battery-powered trailing cars. The first to can plug-in with QSI, Aristocraft, RCS, & Locolinc.

1. C-10L - 18.5V @ 5200mah Lithium-Ion battery-powered trailing-car with 5 cells lithum smart charger, 5W 8ohm, 7oz. magnet speaker, with QSI Magnum installed.









2. C-10NM - 18V @ 3800mah Nimh battery-powered trailing car with 15 cell nickel smart charger, same speaker but installed with Aristocraft Revolution and Phoenix's P8 Sound System. Below, the picture shows Dallee Diesel Sound System, but we have replaced that with the P8 from Phoenix.










We have many more designs on our website at: www.cordlessrenovations.com Any questions please give me a call,

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Greg,
Thank you again. DCC does sound nice, but I am taking care of several people and while I can decide on my layout function without much conflict, the majority of them are into R/C and Battery, probably because this is the area that I am specializing in. Coming from N and HO, I am familiar with DCC, and I'm sure that the problems of pickup are not an issue with G-Scale, although I would imagine that extremely dirty track might make a liar out of me. Again, DCC would also solve some of the problems associated with crossed polarity operations (reverse loops, etc.). My layout environment is subject to extreme temperatures, which I think we have finally gotten a handle on, but also to leaves, twigs, and tree sap (the last one makes for fun with track power). I have take steps to correct the debris problems that actually make it fun to clean the track, and I hope to make the two units I built self contained this winter. The tree sap is another issue, and as long as I can stay on top of it it's manageable.
I have seen QSI and it does look very nice, but, at this time, I haven't done any conversions for anybody using that system, so I really can't compare operations. 
On my own layout, while it hasn't happened yet, I have planned on multiple operators, allowing for thru trains and car movement at the same time, while the multiple number can vary from 2 to 15, depending on what's going on. If I so choose, I can make up a 50 car freight (again, haven't done this yet), pull it out on one of the mains and let it run. I can also make up another train, passenger or freight and pull it out on the other main, and let it run. Then I can move cars from one or more sidings to other sidings or the main yard while the two trains are independently running, with plenty of time to spare between units, and there's always the 0-5-0 switcher if there is a problem that needs to be addressed immediately.
I am still a "newbie" when it comes to G-Scale, but I am learning quickly, thanks to the many fine people on this forum. I really appreciate the suggestions and direction that are offered, as well as the rationale behind them, which allows me to make much more intelligent decisions regarding my applications.

Regards,
Noel


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi again Rick,
Sent you an e-mail regarding info on current orders.

Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Noela, I re-read your posts, and I see I misunderstood, you are making these changes for clients, not yourself. I had misunderstood that these were your locos. 

Of course many different locos owned by different people is another situation. Sorry about that. I was thinking that you wanted this "dual" capability for all your locos (and a large number of them) on your layout. 

When you just power the loco from a single connector to enable a trailing car, you give up the ability to use more sophisticated features like constant lighting, remote control of smoke, etc, UNLESS you standardize on a connector that can "communicate" these functions between the loco and trailing car. 

Add in the "dual power" capability and you could complicate the wiring further. (for example bring the motor, track and lighting and smoke unit wiring "back" to the trailing car with a multipin connector, like between a steam loco and tender) For example, Aristo is standardizing the "socket" in the tender from now on, and there's apparently a 6 or 8 pin connector between the two. On my DCC steam locos, I have a 12 pin connector.

I'm thinking that cost of conversion may be uppermost in your client's minds, so "fancy" conversions, that while yielding more functionality/flexibility might be nice, it might not be worth it to your clients. 

All that conjecture aside, what might make sense, from functionality and cost (just my wild thoughts) is to put the "brains" in each locomotive, and just have the trailing cars have batteries, and have a switch that just changes the power input from track to the battery car. 

Done with the right hardware, then ordinary DC operation on the tracks, and wireless R/C operation, powered by a battery car could both be achieved. I'm of course thinking both remote control of the loco and a sound system in the loco. Using the right hardware would also allow remote activation of sounds in "DC track power" mode. 

Just thinking, not sure it's helpful. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Perhaps Noel could give us an idea of the brand of R/C equipment he is contemplating using. 
Once that is known the degree of difficulty, and cost, can be estimated with more certainty.


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Greg,
As always, your posts are very helpful, and I appreciate your comments. I were several hats, one of which is personal, but others that serve the hobby (and golfers). If I had all the answers, I certainly wouldn't be here, but I learned early that, while I do know a lot about a lot, it is always best to draw on experts that have experienced more than I have, and to be grateful when they share their knowledge. Bottom line, after getting all of this information, I can make a better decision on what I have to do.

Regards,
Noel


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Good morning Tony,
I use RCS and Revolution for my R/C systems, depending on the client, and primarily Phoenix Sound Systems (although I will use Dallee, again, if the client wants it, or it is a best fit). I try to give the most bang for the buck, particularly in these financial times. I am not adverse to using others, but right now this is what is being used.

Regards,
Noel


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Noel.
If you are contemplating using the small handheld RCS equipment for installations you will need to contact any of the authorised USA dealers.
In the meantime at the RCS and RCS - BELTROL websites there are links to many published articels on various fora showing how to do many of the installations.

*Published articles.*

There are parts readily available for a trail car installation that will easily plug into an AristoCraft loco that has the socket pigtails at either end.
There is one particular *installation kit* I make that includes all you will need.

USA Trains locos can be easily converted to battery power with this kit[/b]. Adding a track power capability is quite straightforward. A DPDT switch is added to part of the circuit. I could provide the extra diagram with any kits purchased.


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Noel,

Assuming you come up with an easy way to switch between track and battery power, here is the way I wire my locos to switch between an internal battery (in the tender) and an external battery (in a trailing car.) This allows me to use the same jack for both charging the internal battery or running from an external battery.


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Tony,
Thank you. 
I already have established an account with RCS and Don Sweet.

Regards,
Noel


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Bob,
Thank you for the schematic. I haven't done any QSI conversions yet, but hopefully, the time will come to do so. I appreciate your taking the time to send the info.

Regards,
Noel


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