# Ore vs Hopper Cars for Zinc and Lead? Old Mines?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

As I read up on the history of railroading in Arkansas it is apparent that there were a lot of small coal, zinc and lead mines. 

This leads to a few questions:

What would the entrances of small coal, zinc and lead mines look like?

How would the railroads have transported zinc and lead? I would guess in hoppers just like coal but I would like to confirm it.

If the mines brought the ore out in mine cars, how did they transfer it to main line railroad cars? Same question if the local short line was narrow gauge and the ore needed to be transferred to standard gauge cars? 


Was the ore typically transported a long distance to be processed or would it have been processed near the mines and some sort of finished product then shipped elsewhere? 


Is there a common (cheap) material that looks like zinc or lead ore that could be loaded into hoppers etc.? 


I am thinking in the era around 1920 - 1945. 


Any other general (underground) mine operation type of information would be appreciated. 


If anyone models this type of mine I would appreciate any photos and or descriptions of how they are simulated.

Also it is puzzling to me why there were so many such mines in Arkansas in the past but they seem to be no longer in existence today. Did they just run dry or did it become uneconomical to mine them?


What would have happened to those abandoned mines? Is it likely that there are old mines that may still be accessible and if so how would one go about locating them? 


Thanks,

Jerry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, 

Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette (I think) ran an article about the desert wooden monorail that was somewhere in your locale. It transported ore from a mine and had lots of photos of the mine, the interchanges, etc. 
It was a magnesium mine if that's any good. *The American Magnesium Company Monorail * Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette January/February 2008. http://www.ngslgazette.com/issue.htm (Amazing what Google can do. Hint.)
Or you could try Google Books - or even your local library!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry:

As to the probable locations for the lead and zinc mines in Arkansas you should contact the Arkansas State Geological Survey. Most state surveys have a good handle on historic mining activity. There are still some very large lead and zinc mines operating in southern Missouri. You might be able to drive by some of those and see how they are currently handling the ore.

For the larger mines, my guess is that the ore was dumped directly into rail cars at the mine and the rail cars were probably gondolas. The cars would not be filled because the lead and zinc ore is very heavy. The smaller mines probably moved the ore to the railroad in wagons and trucks. The ore would then be shipped to a smelter. I think that there were some smelters in the Miami, Ok and Joplin, Mo area.


Current mines are for the most part very large operations, small mines have to be incredibly rich to make any money. 


If you have access to any books on the Rio Grande Southern and the Denver and Rio Grande Western, there will be pictures on mines and mining operations in Colorado. The mines in your area wouldn't be much different. You just wouldn't have the high mountains. 

As for possible loads, if you can find out where some mines are located, there will be dumps near the old mine site. If you can safely get into the dumps you might be able to find some ore to crush up for your loads.

Chuck 


PS The ore cars sold by MDC, LGB, and USAT were all used for hauling iron or in northern Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. They were not used outside that region. They hauled iron ore out of that region to steel mills in the midwest, but they were never used for other types of ore in other parts of the country.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have no idea what the garbage above this comment is or how it got there!!!

Jerry:

I just went to the Arkansas Geological Survey's web site and here are a couple of links:

This link talks about the various metals that are found in Arkansas, but may have not necessarily been mined, scroll and click on Zinc/lead. 


Metal mining in Arkansas


Here is a map of Arkansas showing regions of the state where different geological materials can be found.


Map of Geological materials found in Arkansas

If there is a college or university near where you live, you might stop by and talk to the faculty in the geology department about locations of lead/zinc mines where you could possibly collect some of the ore.

Chuck


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry

Here's a link to a book I ran across using Google books. Starting on page 438 is a listing of Arkansas mines.

The Mines Handbook Vol. XV[/b]
1922[/b]


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 18 Mar 2010 10:36 AM 
Jerry, 

Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette (I think) ran an article about the desert wooden monorail that was somewhere in your locale. It transported ore from a mine and had lots of photos of the mine, the interchanges, etc. 
It was a magnesium mine if that's any good. *The American Magnesium Company Monorail * Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette January/February 2008. http://www.ngslgazette.com/issue.htm (Amazing what Google can do. Hint.)
Or you could try Google Books - or even your local library! 

Hi Pete,

Thanks, I will check the libraries.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 18 Mar 2010 11:36 AM 
Jerry:

As to the probable locations for the lead and zinc mines in Arkansas you should contact the Arkansas State Geological Survey. Most state surveys have a good handle on historic mining activity. There are still some very large lead and zinc mines operating in southern Missouri. You might be able to drive by some of those and see how they are currently handling the ore.

For the larger mines, my guess is that the ore was dumped directly into rail cars at the mine and the rail cars were probably gondolas. The cars would not be filled because the lead and zinc ore is very heavy. The smaller mines probably moved the ore to the railroad in wagons and trucks. The ore would then be shipped to a smelter. I think that there were some smelters in the Miami, Ok and Joplin, Mo area.


Current mines are for the most part very large operations, small mines have to be incredibly rich to make any money. 


If you have access to any books on the Rio Grande Southern and the Denver and Rio Grande Western, there will be pictures on mines and mining operations in Colorado. The mines in your area wouldn't be much different. You just wouldn't have the high mountains. 

As for possible loads, if you can find out where some mines are located, there will be dumps near the old mine site. If you can safely get into the dumps you might be able to find some ore to crush up for your loads.

Chuck 


PS The ore cars sold by MDC, LGB, and USAT were all used for hauling iron or in northern Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. They were not used outside that region. They hauled iron ore out of that region to steel mills in the midwest, but they were never used for other types of ore in other parts of the country.


Hi Chuck,

Good information. I know a guy who has a 12 book set on the RGS.


Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 18 Mar 2010 01:47 PM 

I have no idea what the garbage above this comment is or how it got there!!!

Jerry:

I just went to the Arkansas Geological Survey's web site and here are a couple of links:

This link talks about the various metals that are found in Arkansas, but may have not necessarily been mined, scroll and click on Zinc/lead. 


Metal mining in Arkansas


Here is a map of Arkansas showing regions of the state where different geological materials can be found.


Map of Geological materials found in Arkansas

If there is a college or university near where you live, you might stop by and talk to the faculty in the geology department about locations of lead/zinc mines where you could possibly collect some of the ore.

Chuck 


Hi Chuck,

GREAT Links!

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 18 Mar 2010 05:53 PM 
Jerry

Here's a link to a book I ran across using Google books. Starting on page 438 is a listing of Arkansas mines.

The Mines Handbook Vol. XV[/b]
1922[/b]


Hi Steve,

I may end up spending a lot of time with that book.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 18 Mar 2010 01:47 PM I have no idea what the garbage above this comment is or how it got there!!!

Same sort of appeared on one of my other posts. I composed it in wurd 2007 and pasted the text into the add reply box - is that what you did?

Never had that trouble with Word 2003..

Another great q Jerry. I was wondering the same thing about the difference between ore and coal carrying. 


Cheers

Neil


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Neil:

That's exactly what I did. I copied and pasted the links into a word 2007 document to save them so that I could easily copy and paste them into the thread.


I haven't figured out how to copy and paste links more than once and keep the MLS connection alive. Perhaps the best way is to paste the first link in to a comment and then submit it and then do an edit to paste in the second.

I thought that using word as a deposit for the links I could easily copy and paste. Obviously, that was not the best choice.


Chuck N 


PS this is totally off topic, but where in NZ is Tuahiwi? My wife got her PhD at Victoria University in Wellington and lived there for nine years. It is a beautiful country. We were there in the mid-80s. My first trip and her return trip. My other vice, in addition to garden railroads, is fly fishing. The largest trout (27 inches) I ever caught was in the Taupo area of the North Island.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Apologies for the derail... 

Chuck, 

We're about half an hour's drive north of Christchurch in the South Island. Don't worry - most of the people I meet in town say Tua-where?! when I tell them where I live. 

Cheers 
Neil


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By wigginsn on 18 Mar 2010 08:57 PM 
Another great q Jerry. I was wondering the same thing about the difference between ore and coal carrying. 

Cheers

Neil 


Hi Neil,

Thanks, I am always amazed at the knowledge (of both facts and how to find stuff) available from fellow MLSers.


Regards,

Jerry


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