# Help with LGB 2019s



## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

New to the hobby - started in March and have about 160 feet of track down so far. I recently decided to upgrade from my LGB starter Loco and purchased an LGB 2019s off Ebay - beautiful piece with what appears to be little run-time. The sound and smoke work great but the Loco does not have much pulling power. My Starter Loco and motorized tender will pull 10 cars around my layout but the 2019s will only pull 2 cars and stalls badly on the 4% grade I have in one area. This thing seems like it should be a beast - do I have a dud (and can that be fixed) or are my expectations out-of-line? Using a PIKO 5A power supply. Appreciate any guidance!


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

The motor stalls, or does it loose traction?


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## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

Thanks - the motor stalls


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Can you check voltage on the rail as it is running in the area of the stall?


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## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

OK - checked and the voltage is fine. I moved my track-connection to where it is only a couple of sections away from the slope but still stalls when I add a second car. I have a couple of 2 degree slopes where it still slows quite a bit but the 4 degree pretty much brings it to a halt.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

If the voltage is not dropping I would say the motor is bad. An easy fix, install a new one.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For your info, the Stainz and mogul have the same motor, Stainz is a short shaft, Mogul is long shaft.
When it slows does the wheels slip, or just an engine slow down?
Is the traction tire Ok?


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## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

The Engine slows down - no wheel slippage. Even on a level section of track it will only pull 2 cars - which I would expect that this beast would pull much more (or at least match my Starter Loco). The Traction tire does look to be OK - very little use on the Loco itself.

Really appreciate the help here!


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## DetailsDetails (Jul 28, 2021)

Look if the connecting rods look like if they are binding mechanically. Then, open the motor block up. It could be a bad motor... over lubricated etc. A stripped gear on the axle...
Somebody could have pushed the locomotive back and forth on a hard surface by hand
Are the pickup shoes nickel fresh or do they look like brass worn flat?
Are the wheels clean?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

motor could have worn brushes, or junk between commutator segments. to test binding, perhaps remove side rods, but as above, try moving the wheels about 90 degrees at a time, and wiggle siderods, if there is binding, it will be tight.

Also, you could check the current draw of the loco (amp meter) and see if that is high, if so that will indicate binding.

start checking things and report here.


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## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

Thanks for the suggestions! Will probably be this weekend before I can get to this but will report back on what I find.


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## JCGIII (Sep 20, 2017)

Try contact cleaner spray on the brushes and commutator in the motor. Carbon buildup could need cleaning off. Home Depot and Lowes typically have it in the section where they sell car supplies. Has a long skinny tube like WD40. Have used it to turn poor performers into "like new" performers.


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## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

Ok - I cracked this thing open last night. Have to admit it was a bit intimidating taking a screw-driver to something I had just recently dropped a few hundred bucks on. My first challenge was how to hold this thing steady up-side-down without damaging - I eventually created a rig with some foam rubber and a life-jacket that works well.

Have to say I was surprised at the small size of the motor driving this Loco. Now that I've gotten to poke around in this thing, based on the feedback received I've opted to go ahead with a full refurb and just take care of everything at one-shot since I have it disassembled. I've ordered a new motor, brushes, pickups and traction wheel. I initially thought the traction wheel was OK but re-checked it after Dan's comment. Visually it looked OK but when I pushed it with my thumbnail a piece broke off - guessing that's not supposed to happen  The gears look to be in great condition - just need to clean-up the old grease.

Here's hoping I can get it all back together after everything arrives!


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## Jason Slenker (Sep 5, 2021)

Even when new the 2019s isn't that powerful. I think we have gone through at least two motors on ours over the years.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The traction tire alone could have been the problem


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Respectfully,
While it is common to think these locos, with thier heft, are “beasts” in pulling power, simply, if the loco is over loaded, ie cars and grade, eventually there will be problems. Most common is wear, grooving of the axel and idler gears, and possibly, damaging the connecting rods. bear in mind that while 2 axels are actually geared via the motor, the center axel floats, and simply rolls along with movement of the loco, and connecting rod. However, in certain circumstances, the center axel cab bear enough tractive load to strain, crack, or break the rod.( for that matter, something as innocuous as a leaf stem which catches in the right spot can cause breakage…how might i know this?😐) always clear the line before running. Things that should push away sometimes don’t, with resulting disaster.



i do not add weight, generally, to moderately weighted locos so that they can slip, as opposed to grinding down the internal plastic gears. Others think differently. Given the price and scarcity of some parts, I’m more cautious than when parts were a part of the lgb service and sales philosophy.

in real life, ng moguls did not have long trains, other than empties down grade. Most photos show them with 3-5 cars, tops.

if you enjoy longer trains, id respectfully suggest double heading with locos similarly geared.
if you love the loco, avoid “seeing what she’ll do” in terms of pulling. Or, in the alternative, stock some spare parts.

stuttering…as greg said , track skates, back of wheels must be clean, and even contact plunger pressure, (check that these travel freely, and the carbon inserts are of even lenght, as well as the plunger springs) and clean track. The latter, imho, is often a culprit. I clean mine each time before i run. It makes a big difference, and importantly, reduces or eliminates micro arching, which eventually pits the wheel tread plating.

as bulletproof as lgb is, i find periodic cleaning of all the items mentioned above helps.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Another thing to check while maintenence is performed on the LGB mogul is to pick up the engine to insure the tender can supply power. Only exception is the Mogul with the 5 pin connector (read oil tender) as the oil tender does not have track power pickups.


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## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

Ok - new parts arrived today. From the posts here it sounds like swapping motors, gears, etc are basic maintenance items that I need to learn in order to enjoy this hobby. I'm pretty average when it comes to mechanical aptitude so hopefully this goes well. 

Plan to tackle this weekend and will keep you updated as to how it goes. I do think my expectations may have been out-of-line based on the info provided - really appreciate the feedback!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually normally motors last a long time.

Well treated gears too, except for Bachmann... 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

(Early) Bachmann. Once they got wise and started putting brass gears in their models, things improved tremendously. 

To the topic at hand, when you reassemble the locomotive, make sure to pay attention to the position of the drivers. It's easy to reposition them so the forward and rear drivers are just slightly off by a tooth or two, which will lead to binding with the siderods once things are put back together. Use the wheel spokes as a guide.

You can add a fair amount of weight to the mogul, but you will put more strain on the gears--particularly the idler gears. Stock up on those if the mogul is a regular runner on your railroad. Having said that, I've got one of the original (c. 1985) moguls with a lot of weight added to the boiler (8% grade it has to climb), and I've only had to replace the gears once in all those years.

Later,

K


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## DetailsDetails (Jul 28, 2021)

Take pictures of everything before you take it apart. 
Absolves your brain from having to remember where everything was


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## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

Installed the new motor, pickups, brushes & a traction wheel and have 100% improvement. My Piko Transformer has 28 settings - the Loco would previously start to move on setting 20 and now starts to move on setting 14 (Steam sounds kick-in on setting 10). It also will now handle my 4 degree inclines - does not stall-out anymore. It does run a bit jerky on low settings in forward mode (14-18) but then runs smooth as I increase power. It runs completely smooth in reverse regardless of the power setting. I may tinker a bit with this later but am extremely happy with how it runs compared to before.

Really appreciate all the advice - I took dozens of pictures during the process to make sure I could get the pieces back together. I would not have attempted this project without all of your help - nice to be part of the community!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad it is fixed. I believe you have learned a lot on repairing this engine and next problem should be easier to fix due to this experience.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The difference in forwards and reverse may be gear wear, often what is called worm lock.

Probably not much you can do about it... 

greg


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## BubbaPompano (Sep 14, 2021)

Wanted to ask how much these Locomotives should weigh? The one I recently purchased weighs 7.5 pounds - much heavier than my other Loco's. 

Is this standard for this model?


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## DetailsDetails (Jul 28, 2021)

The instruction booklet lists 10.1 pounds. But models from different production runs can weigh different. 
Furthermore modifications. 
If you install a different steam generator you may cut or eliminate the boiler weight for instance.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The original LGB Mogul had less weights but had 2 traction tires. Now they can no longer use lead weights so the newer engines are a little lighter.


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