# are there still any Ruby oversize cylinder options?



## voxnut (Jul 16, 2008)

hi guys-

I know this is one of those posts where I feel like I'm late to the party- everyone was goofing around with Rubys en masse 5 or 6 years ago and have moved on since. But I'm finding that I don't run my Ruby nearly as much as I would like to because of the high speed running/inability to pull any kind of grade characteristics. With the economy being the way it is, for me, buying a new loco isn't an option for the forseeable future. I also rent, so that means occasionally setting up an oval of track on the driveway. I have the track to make a portable layout, but did the measuring, and storage would be a problem for even a small track- so I'm stuck with the gentle grade of the driveway when the urge hits.

I know the old sources of oversize cylinders have dried up- I've had my name on a list from the outfit in the UK for over a year now, and from other posts I've read, they haven't really responded to requests or inquiries about them.

I'm holding out some hope that Accucraft's new Forney will have cylinders that bolt up to the Ruby, but it hasn't been released yet and Cliff isn't sure if they will fit right up or if they will even be made for separate sale.

Does anyone else know of other options? I'm no machinist or fabricator, just a mechanic. So I can install, and bolt together, and tune, just not create.

Thanks!
Dean


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Royce, at Quissenberry has some 1/2" cylinders left, he is an advertiser here. Dave Hottman may convert it to larger cylinders for you also. I don't have Dave's address, but he posts here sometimes. 

jerry


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## voxnut (Jul 16, 2008)

Thanks Jerry- I talked to Royce, and he was pretty sure he didn't have any more 1/2" cylinders but I'll see if Dave Hottmann is making them.

All the best,
Dean


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## rivets (Jun 17, 2009)

Is it the cylinder size, the steam pressure or the steam volume that makes Ruby a weakling? I find my kit runs well but on my newly-laid loop a 2% grade will stop her without a running start. I plan on changing her to inside admission soon since she goes uphill better in reverse. But it seems the safety valve stops venting when the throttle is open and she is standing still on the grade. Any other less drastic directions to go before a cylinder transplant? Thanks.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have plenty of material to make more of them but unless there is enough interest it won't happen. You can search in the old forum for the log of when I made the 1st run of 25. Probally need to make at least 6 or so pair. Of course I have other projects that I need to finish first though. The reason I made the cylinders in the first place, for the Porter masterclass based on some ruby parts..


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Rivets,

I've had the same question regarding the Ruby's performance. I don't know the whole answer, but suspect it has to do with steam pressure at the cylinders. Assuming that the pistons and valves seal properly, I haven't found any references that say that 3/8" diameter cylinders shouldn't develop adequate power for the loco plus a reasonable load. However I have read one source who discussed gauge 1 locomotive cylinders as "high pressure" or "low pressure" based on piston diameter, and for gauge 1 locomotives 3/8" diameter would have fallen into the high pressure category. I interpret this to mean that a 3/8" diameter cylinder needs higher pressure steam to generate power. On the other hand if the boiler is delivering only lower pressure steam to the cylinders then a larger diameter cylinder is needed. Of course the boiler would always need to deliver a sufficient quantity of steam at the desired pressure too. 
I am not advocating to increase Ruby's boiler working pressure as a cure for poor steaming. Instead I'd try to understand causes for and how to reduce steam pressure drop between boiler and cylinders. I have seen Rubys run quite respectably while hauling a number of cars, and these Rubys were built "to print", except perhaps for adjusting the eccentric to change the admission.

Steve


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## voxnut (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm not much of a theorist on steam engines, so I'm not sure if my basic understanding is correct, but at least how I'm imagining it is transposing theory from my internal combustion engine experience; larger displacement will create more torque, allowing the engine to create ample power at low RPM- in the case of the Ruby, allowing it to run with plenty of power at low RPMs (giving it the slow running that is seriously lacking with the stock setup), with the added benefit of torque to pull a grade (the benefit of the larger cylinder- a greater volume of steam pushing on a larger diameter piston). This may be oversimplifying things, and I'm not sure if it's a direct correlation, but that's how I figure it on a basic level. Feel free to correct me if I'm not getting this right.

Jason- if 5 other guys contact you wanting them, please let me know. If I can ask, how much were you charging for the set? 

Thanks, 
Dean


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Probally in the range os 175-200. You could check with Milton Locomotive they relisted a new run this year. They make then CNC I made them all manually.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

One more thought: Larger cylinders improve the volume/surface ratio, which in turn reduces condensation. It seems as if this condensation is an important factor in keeping locos from running slow. My friend Eric has a steam tractor with the cylinder mounted on top of the boiler, so it is always heated. This engine can be run very slow. 
Regards


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## hawkeye2 (Jan 6, 2008)

Jason,
If you decide to make another batch I'll take a pair for my Ida. Did you make the ones that Royce was selling? I was one of the first to place an order but never did get a set. Definatly want a set.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes I did make the run for Royce.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd be interested in a pair as wel.


I emailed Milton Loco works and they said they do not have any and would let me know when they made a new run--who knows when that might be


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## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

Add one more to the list.


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## voxnut (Jul 16, 2008)

Looks like there are four guys who want them (inclulding me), perhaps we can come up with 2 more and it will make another run worth Jason's time... fingers crossed!


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## dwegmull (Jan 2, 2008)

I could use two sets (for a Ruby Garratt).


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I am in for 1 set for Betsy, please
Regards


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like there's plenty of demand for these things, how hard would it be to get Accucraft to produce a run of extra Forney cylinders? Even if they aren't an exact fit, I'm sure they could be adapted about as easily as installing the aftermarket cylinders. The Forney crossheads and guides would be nice to have on a Ruby too.


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## rivets (Jun 17, 2009)

I had good success this week improving my Ruby's performance. I made three modifications- 1) I changed the valve gear to inside admission in forward per http://www.accucraft.de/Produkte/1_20_3/Dampflokomotiven_1_20_3__Live_/Ruby_-_Adjustment.pdf. 2) I cut a long angle in the top of the small brass exhaust pipe so it is more open. 3) I confess to stretching the pressure relief valve spring a little by pulling open the last couple of windings on the spring. 

My Ruby could hardly make it up the 2.2% grade on my loop before. Now she can start from a standstill right on the grade with a hefty flatcar in tow. She and the flatcar will also get over my "root lump" which is a short 4% section. The stack talk is nicer too. So with the R-C I put in Ruby has turned into a fun runner and I don't have to rebuild the loop. I believe the valve change made the biggest difference. 

Now I suppose big new cylinders would really make her a hauler but I will pass for now. And thanks for the previous answers folks. 

John


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

The main issue with the Forney cylinders is if they adapted the ones from the euro locos they bolt up from the inside of the frame unline the ruby with bolt up to the frame spacer on top. There were also runs of Rubys prebuilt with this way towards the end of the runs. Not sure why but thatsthe info I got from Cliff and Dave H.


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## btrippis (Sep 8, 2008)

Add my name to the list for a pair of oversize cylinders for my Ruby.
Brian Tripp. New member btrippis


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## voxnut (Jul 16, 2008)

Jason-

It looks like there are a half dozen folks interested. Woudl you consider doing a run of them? Would you like a commitment with a 50% deposit for each pair?

Thanks,
Dean


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I would be able to make them. As I stated before I need to complete some other projects first, mostly the pair of Porters that I built the cylinders for in the 1st place. Having a contract on selling my townhouse and moving into my inlaws till we find something puts a damper on getting work done too. If you all are willing to wait until the winter or spring for them it can happen. I had one pair left for myself but they had been sold. Also because all my drawings and paperwork/notes are all packed up in storage and not easily accessible.


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## voxnut (Jul 16, 2008)

Jason-

You are offering to do something that I am unable to do for myself, so whatever works timewise for me. I've only run my Ruby a couple of times this year because of the qualitites I don't like. I can't get another steamer for $175-200 and this will make the locomotive so I can really use it and enjoy it. I'vew been on Milton's waiting list for over a year and it doesn't look like they will do them , so another 6months is no problem in order to get the Ruby to where I can really use it. Just let me know when you are in the position to do them. I'm sure the other guys will contact you as well.

All the best with the move n' stuff-

Thanks,
Dean


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

What Dean said!


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone interestind please PM me so I have your name and email. Ill keep a list so I know how many are needed. Im sure there will be extra made too for any latecomers.


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## hawkeye2 (Jan 6, 2008)

Jason,

Sent you a message re Ida cylinders.

Doug


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Sooner? Would Dave Hottmann make some?


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

If I were looking for an item dealing with live steam, I'd go to www.steamup.info and have Ron Brown put your request in Swap Shop. Someone out there might have a pair that they want to sell. Who knows, if you mention that others are looking, maybe some machinist might be interested.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I received all your messages and so far there are 8 pair spoken for. Anyone else that is interested can PM me on here. Also the cylinders will have a 1/8" piston rod and if you have the 3mm version all you need to do it take and drill out the connecting rod. Can be done by hand with the bit in a hand chuck. Only a difference of .007"


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I received all your messages and so far there are 8 pair spoken for. Anyone else that is interested can PM me on here. Also the cylinders will have a 1/8" piston rod and if you have the 3mm version all you need to do it take and drill out the connecting rod. Can be done by hand with the bit in a hand chuck. Only a difference of .007"


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