# Could B units be moved by themselves?



## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

I've been reading an old railroading book and it was mentioned that they had a B unit go bad while part of an operational train and a replacement was set up for them to swap out with.

Could B units be moved by themselves (I know they did not have cabs etc.) to get them to where they might be needed or was an A unit needed to get the B unit positioned and then the A unit returned to the yard leaving the B unit and the train that needed it then used its A unit to get to the B unit?

Jerry


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Depends, Jerry. The early B uits (FT-B and the like) did not all have hostler controls. Some did, and some (most?) had them retrofitted later. In general, if the B unit was designed to be semi-permanently coupled to an A (as in the FT), there were no controls. Later models did have them. The controls themselves were pretty basic, and I imagine running with them was no picnic, but it saved having to use another engine to move it.


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Thanks Kenneth,

If I recall what I read correctly (some time ago) many AB units were hard linked together partially so the railroad could call them a single locomotive and not pay the engineer extra for running two locomotives.

In retrospect this seems somewhat illogical because a failure of one would put both units out of operation and double the operational loss per failure. 
I also seem to recall that the first diesels had enough failures that it was not uncommon to include an extra locomotive in a consist to insure having enough power if one locomotive should fail.


Jerry


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 02 Aug 2010 06:30 AM 
Thanks Kenneth,

If I recall what I read correctly (some time ago) many AB units were hard linked together partially so the railroad could call them a single locomotive and not pay the engineer extra for running two locomotives.


Jerry



It wasnt a question of "paying an engineer for running two locomotives"..the issue was actually "paying for a full crew for each locomotive"! back in the steam days, naturally steam locomotives didnt MU together, so whenever you ran two (or more) steam locos together, you had to have a crew for each loco (engineer and fireman).. during the early diesel days, the union rules stated you STILL had to have a full crew for each seperate diesel locomotive! even if they could be MU'd together and operated together from the lead unit.. so management got around this rule by ordering early cab units, such s the FT, in attached AB or ABA configurations, attached with a drawbar rather than a coupler, so they could be considered "one locomotive".. eventually the rules were simply changed, and it was no longer an issue.. Scot


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

That was part of the reason why the cabless B units were built as well, because without a cab they couldn't be considered a full locomotive.


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## Big John (Jan 4, 2008)

Just think. if it wasn't for uniions we would not have the need for A and B units on early diesel engines. They could have all been A units running in consists. The unions gave us more variety in our trains. I guess that isn't all bad. 

Big John


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Just when you think you have it all figured out, along comes somebody who screws it all up, in this instance, it was the Rock Island, who converted 2 E6Bs to have controls of their own. Here's the story: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMC_AB6 

Have fun, 
Chris


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Big John on 04 Aug 2010 12:31 PM 
Just think. if it wasn't for uniions we would not have the need for A and B units on early diesel engines. They could have all been A units running in consists. The unions gave us more variety in our trains. I guess that isn't all bad. 

Big John 



Well, I dont think the union rules were directly responsible for the creation of B-units..
I think the railroad management was able to use B-units as a handy way around the union rules,
but that was just a coincidental bonus.. 


B-units were likely invented because early road diesels (cab units) were designed to be multiple unit sets from the start,

and if you had 3 or 4 units in a set, you didnt need a cab on each of them..and B-units were somewhat cheaper, while still offering full power,

plus they looked good in ABA and ABBA sets.. 


B units were still being built, new from the factory, into the 1960's and 70's: 


http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/pc3835.jpg 

http://www.sdrm.org/roster/diesel/e...f-5501.jpg 

Scot


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Generally there was a small control stand in the end of the B unit. It had reverser, one or two notch throttle, and an independent brake. The Hostler would have to look out the end door. Basic but it could move the B unit around the shop complex.


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By up9018 on 04 Aug 2010 08:38 PM 
Just when you think you have it all figured out, along comes somebody who screws it all up, in this instance, it was the Rock Island, who converted 2 E6Bs to have controls of their own. Here's the story: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMC_AB6 

Have fun, 
Chris 

That is weird!

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Tom Parkins on 04 Aug 2010 08:59 PM 
Generally there was a small control stand in the end of the B unit. It had reverser, one or two notch throttle, and an independent brake. The Hostler would have to look out the end door. Basic but it could move the B unit around the shop complex. 

Thanks Tom,

Jerry


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