# Anyone done a temporary raised PVC roadbed?



## hans911 (Jan 9, 2008)

I am in the process of planning my front yard Christmas display. Last year I ran a train on a large oval with track layed on the lawn directly. The uneven sloped surface of the lawn immediately became VERY apparent and was problematic since I tried leveling it with all kinds of scraps of wood, stone, etc. This year I am determined to make it more level from the start.

I was thinking of driving stakes into the ground under the oval and set the tops of the stakes level with a laser level. Then attach 2 PVC pipes side by side to the tops with drywall screws atop the stakes before zip tying the track to the PVC. I don't remember if I read about this somewhere or am dreaming it up. 

Has anyone done a temporary layout using this or any similar method? 

I am certainly open to any other suggestions. Since my lawn is very sloped part of the track will be off the lawn.

Thanks for any suggestions!!!!









Paul H.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

The "orginial " Splicer, poster here , years ago , built his railway that way , and it was on the Cicnn. Ohio NGRC conv tour , looked great , worked great , he later had to move and it was removed , he also built some large /long wooden trestles between the post / legs . I belive that he used 3 PVC pipes together under the track to support it between post . Cableland Southern Xpress , CSX . 

So it should work well for you Paul . 

And I found a link with pics , look in the background , he painted the PVC black . Splicer really had some uneven ground !

http://rides.webshots.com/album/159967857PMDltW


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Some one on here used Gutter Down Spout Pipe. 

He cut "V"'s in the pipe at the right intervals to make curves.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

In the archives there is some posts on that sort of thing.

One with a guy doing a Christmas layout in the front yard and then Ray Manely has his layout on what looks that could be a temporary layout and not just a permenent one.

Anyway you will have to search for them.

Bubba


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

Should work. I would spray paint all of the PVC pipe black so you don't notice it as much under the track.


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Your querry inspired me to post a topic on my Flexible Spine System, which you might find useful.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/9/postid/59569/view/topic/Default.aspx

A single spine is not very strong so you will need a pier or support for every span of 18" or so. If you added 45 degree braces from the pier to the spine you could reduce the number or piers by 2/3 or so.

Terl


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## Biff (Jan 4, 2008)

That Flexible Spine System is nice. I am going to try it myself. It is perfect for your temporary layout. 

Biff


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

I have. If you dig through the archives for Christmas train, or Mark's Christmas Layout there are multiple treads showing my holiday layout. 

David Wegmuller has several pictures of my layout (and even a movie) on his site. This should give you a feel for the construction method. The PVC lumber sections are 5' long and bolted together with lag bolts.




























and here is a link to the movie from 2006 - 

http://wegmuller.org/v-web/gallery/albums/Mark20061209/Mark2006.wmv

-Mark


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

I use this system. It was only temporary until I could haul in all the dirt fill and ballast. 

http://www.gardenrailwayproducts.com/

It works great but is expensive for a large layout.


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## hans911 (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks for all the suggestions and help! A special thanks to Terl and Mark for their unique solutions. 
I started working on building some pieces of the "flexible spine system" today using 3/4 inch PVC pipe in 3 foot lengths. The problem I foresee is that with my 8 foot diameter cuve the pvc won't bend that much. I decided to use pvc couplers slid on instead of dowels inside the pipe to connect the pieces. I am thinking that I may need to cut shorter lengths and not connect the spines on the curve or find something the same inside diameter of the pvc pipe that will also allow for flex on a 8 ft curve like heavy rubber hose or something. 

My mind is churning. Any other suggestions if you follow my description?? 

Paul H.


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Paul,

Think big! You can cram a fairly large temporary layout in a very small yard - esp if you are willing to cross the driveway or if your neighbors will let you encroach on their yard for the holidays (highly likely if they like decorating for the holidays and you make your layout attractive).


To give you a better idea, here is an arial shot of my holiday layout:











I don't know what engines and rolling stock you have, but 8' diameter is very tight. Still, you have to start somewhere. Here is how my layout looked in 2005 (same yard, just using the small patch to the left of the driveway):











BTW - if you want a simple track system and aren't running heavy brass trains, this is it. The track was heavy Aristo/USA trains track that bolts together, and was simply laid on top of pieces of wood. Slots were cut in the ends of the wood to hold lights. Simple, and it worked great until I started running live steam. Oh yea, and this was an 8ft diameter layout. Worked, but barely.


Glad to see another holiday layout in the making. Please keep us posted on your progress, let me know if I can help, and please post pictures of your results!

Cheers,

Mark


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## Splicer (Nov 29, 2008)

Posted By Dennis Paulson on 11/04/2008 7:23 PM
The "orginial " Splicer, poster here , years ago , built his railway that way , and it was on the Cicnn. Ohio NGRC conv tour , looked great , worked great , he later had to move and it was removed , he also built some large /long wooden trestles between the post / legs . I belive that he used 3 PVC pipes together under the track to support it between post . Cableland Southern Xpress , CSX . 

So it should work well for you Paul . 

And I found a link with pics , look in the background , he painted the PVC black . Splicer really had some uneven ground !

http://rides.webshots.com/album/159967857PMDltW



It is nice to be remembered!!! 

Just to clarify I used 2 inch and a half white PVC pipes that I strapped together and then used PVC cement between the 2 pipes and then removed the straps...Then I placed these on top of 3 inch white PVC 'supports'...I used flat ended caps and then used drywall screws to screw the 2 pipes to the support 'caps'...Spray painted the whole thing black because I ran out of time and the convention was only a few days away...It was intended to be a viaduct but as was mentioned I had to move before I got that far and it all came down...It was actually pretty easy and went together quickly...It was the wood trestle that took awhile to do correctly...

Hey Paul!!! Email me...Same email addy! Hope you and Helen are doing well my friend!!!


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark 

That is one neat Christmas layout. So how did you take the aerial picture? 

Terl


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

RC helicopter....The camera is on a gimbal below the heli and there is a video downlink so you can see what the shot looks like while standing on the ground. While I can fly the heli and point the camera, I find it a bit distracting to try and frame the shot in the monitor while flying, so I typically have an assistant control the camera and frame the shot while I fly the heli. If anyone in the bay area wants a photo of there layout just drop me a PM! 

Mark


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## hans911 (Jan 9, 2008)

As promised here are a few shots of what I came up with. A special "THANKS" to Mark S. & Terl for sharing extra insight into their temprary roadbed building experiences.
I kind of did a hybrid system. Ended up using 3/4 PVC pipe with wooden clamps as in the "flexible spine system" then secured them into the ground by hammering wooden stakes. It's not perfect and the PVC won't bend around my 8 ft. diameter curves. But you live and learn. The track is just zipp tied to the wooden block clamps. The main thing is that it is more level than last years oval directly on the grass.

Train or trolley runs in the evenings and I often walk outside to find a few of the neighbors standing on the lawn with their children watching it go and go. Makes all the work worth it. My five year old says, "Dad we're like famous so many people come to see the train!"









Thanks again to all who responded and shared ideas on this topic.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS.









Paul H.


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Excellant. I'm glad this is working for you. Just don't run the trains in high winds! 

Terl


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Well done Paul! I love the buildings - very cool! 

I'm warning you though - this is very addictive. In 4 or 5 years your holiday layout will have grown into an extravaganza. You wouldn't want to disappoint your son or the neighborhood kids would you? 

Wishing you many years of joy with your holiday layout. 
Mark


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## Splicer (Nov 29, 2008)

Wonderful! Merry Christmas!


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## bahamasboy (Jan 12, 2009)

I know this is a bit late, but this would work for a temporary or permanent layout, as I have used it to raise my roadbed with this method.
I couldn't find PVC lumber, so I searched the local big box store and found an alternative.... if you're familiar with the PVC lattice, they make an 8ft cap to match. The tops are about 3/4 in wide and thery're about 1 inch tall. Two of those with stringers every 6" works great. 2" pvc pipe works great for the supports every 18" or so! The only issue is that when you're screwing in the stringers, the gap which normally has lattice inserted pulls closed and you get a tapered support rather than a 90 degree. The top of the "cap" stays flat though. You can shape it easily enough. The benefits are that it has a wood grain texture..... a little paint and it appears that you've got bent wood supports. The other benefit is that the gap makes a great place to run wires! 

I'll post some pics of mine during construction so that you can see what I'm talking about....IF someone can tell me how to add pics.


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

bahamasboy lookunder website information on how to post pictures and also the sticky post at the beginning of beginners forum. Personally I find it easiest to write up my post in Word, reference my pictures posted to Photobucket, copy the letter and then paste it in the reply box. Too many times when I attempted a long reply in the Forum reply box I screwed up and lost all my work. 

Terl


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## bahamasboy (Jan 12, 2009)

OK, trying to post some pics here.. hopefully this will work.


 
This is the close up. notice the closed "gap" in the "cap" closest to you. This one was early on before I realized I could back out the screws enough to run wires through them, up and over the screws.



 

2 inch PVC pipe supports. These make adjusting height VERY easy. I just adjusted some yesterday with track attached due to a new engine not being able to pull enough cars without wheel slipage. Just back out the screws, lower roadbed, and re insert screws...voila!!


 
Still early on in construction. This 8ft curve was EASILY made and I was by myself. Notice in the upper left, how it starts to curve back to the left! Also, easily accomplished. Jack, the dog, was no help at all!

 
With track! This was the rise that I had to lower yesterday! Being a "Newby" and wanting to run trains, I didn't paint it before adding track. I have a big task ahead in painting! Live and learn.





 
Overall layout with about 30% being on this raised bed! 

Let me know if you have any questions about this. I basically used the method described when I googled "Making a PVC lumber, raised roadbed". Ill try to find the link if anyone is interested.

Regards,
Phil


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks darned nice, great setting there!


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good. No need to paint the track since you have brass track. Eventually it will weather to a dark shade, but if it's Aristrocraft that may take a while longer. You might research blackening chemicals used on gun barrels, but beware as they may cause corrosion in your railjoiners. 

Terl


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## bahamasboy (Jan 12, 2009)

Thanks Ya'll.

Teri, I'm talking about painting the white PVC. It's just too stark in the landscape. Bought a nice brown today and will be dipping paint for ages....(between ties, under ties, the outside of the pvc and the inside of the pvc! If I hadn't been so impatient, I could have sprayed it all before actually laying the track! Oh well.. life really is to short to take seriously!! Therefore .... " a painting I will go... a painting I will go....I just impatient so a painting I will go!"

Regards, happy choo chooing

Phil


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## devrayfan (Dec 29, 2008)

I like that idea..I might have to make a run to Home Depot...


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## devrayfan (Dec 29, 2008)

How deep in the ground do you bury the PVC pipe where you make the curves?
Florida soil tends to be pretty soft with the high sand content...


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## bahamasboy (Jan 12, 2009)

I drove mine into the ground about 12 inches. In your sandy soil, I'd use a post hole digger to about 12 inches, set your post in the hole and add about 4" of conrete just to give it a footing. Then backfill. There really is no side to side pressure, only straight down. Here's the link to the site where I got the idea. Make sure you also watch the video demonstration at the bottm of the page. 


http://www.btcomm.com/trains/primer/roadbed/ladder1.htm


If you try it, let me know how it turns out! I'll be interested to see what you come up with!


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## bahamasboy (Jan 12, 2009)

Oops..sorry,, not a video demonstration any more. There are mroe pics and explaination on construction and installation... 
Phil


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## johnnyboy (Jan 25, 2008)

Phil, how much did you pay per cap? On-line I found 97" length for $6.78 does that sound close to what you paid? If it is that cheap you my friend are a genius. 

Johnny


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## bahamasboy (Jan 12, 2009)

Johnny,
THANK YOU!!!
It's not often that I come across a good solution that is also CHEAP!!! But, this just happens to be one of my better moments! Yes that price is about right. I think I paid about $7 for an 8 ft length. Remember, each length only handles one side of your support so you'll be spending about $14 per every 8 feet of track. 

Helpful hint when creating your "ladders"..... Make sure you stagger the caps so that each 8 ft length overlaps the other side by 4ft. This gives much greater stability. I've also seen them in a dark brown color, but this was after I did my installation. Be sure to view the link above about cutting the "rungs" that go between the "cap rails". They are basically 1x2 and 2x2 pieces.

Last weekend, I started painting my white caps brown. I simply unscrewed the track, left the track all connected together and lifted a section at a time to paint under the rails and the inside parts of the cap supports, along with the verticle 2" pvc support pipes. Did about 1/2 my layout in about 2 hours... LOOKS MUCH BETTER PAINTED!! If you have to paint yours, paint BEFORE you install your track. Do NOT use a heavy coat of paint as the simulated woodgrain looks GREAT with just enough paint to discolor the white. I found that applying the paint as you normally would, then going back over it with the side of bristles lifts off just the right amount of paint to give an uneven color, similar to real wood. I'll post some pics of my painted sections hopefully this weekend.

I've also found that the scrap pieces of the caps make GREAT beams to set your structures on, keeping them off of the ground. You can semi-drive them into the ground with the gap facing down (similar to an upside down U shape). It will keep your wood off the ground and allow air and moisture to flow AROUND, not through,your structure's floor. Just make sure you heavily paint the bottom of the structure to help protect from ground condensation.

My mind whrils every night as I'm going to sleep. I HAVE to do my planning on a very tight budget. I'll let you know if I come up with anything else that I think may be of use.

Choo Choo at you soon,

Phil


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## johnnyboy (Jan 25, 2008)

The beauty of this 'lifestyle', many different solutions to many different problems (I am a brainstormer by nature). Phil, as I was drifting off into slumber last night I was wondering if your wood block stingers would hold up to the elements? I am afraid of the wood rotting over a short amount of time given weather and irrigation of plants. I have some scrap Trek decking lying around for stingers and if I get a chance this weekend I will try that. We are all working on a budget and I know the composite wood will cost a little more, but the value lies in less maintenance and down time. Again, cheers on what appears to be a great and easy raised railbed. 

Johnny


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## bahamasboy (Jan 12, 2009)

Your thoughts have been my fears too! The best part is that they can be replaced from underneath the track, one at a time w/o disturbing bend etc. I just haven't gotten around to changing them out yet. They've only been up since July of last year, but have been through numerous rainstoms, snow, and even a hurricaine. Yes, my whole layout was PERFECT after Ike. I didn't have to re level ANYTHING! So at least we know the construction method wiill hold up! 

I've been keeping my eyes peeled for alternatives, just haven't run across the "perfect" solution.....YET!! 

Phil


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## johnnyboy (Jan 25, 2008)

I went to our local big box and found brown 'redwood' that did look very nice and would not require painting. It looked good for plastic and for using as roadbed. I had about 100' loaded on the cart as my daughter and I walked by another product. Lets say I unload the 100' and picked up the 16' package to test; the picture on the package looked liked track . I will let everyone know how this new product works seeing I didn't have time this afternoon to install outside and living here in AZ tomorrow, Sunday, is busy with cooking and parties(Go Cardinals). I will try it out later this week. It is a one piece snap together edger that per foot is cheaper than Phil's system. It dose not require stingers. Playing with product in the house tonight I think that setting 2" PVC at 4', product length, will allow great strength. Google Snap Edge and you will all see what I am talking about. 

Johnny


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## 6323 (Jan 17, 2008)

Posted By jfrank on 11/30/2008 7:37 AM
I use this system. It was only temporary until I could haul in all the dirt fill and ballast. 

http://www.gardenrailwayproducts.com/

It works great but is expensive for a large layout.



I've tried a small loop using this system.
Roadbed is NOT level, in any direction!!
Curves, I found, also don't fit quite right.
I get a slight overhang, with an 8 foot diameter curve.

No matter what I did, it just didn't work as was expected.
Seriously doubt I'm gonna try it again.
Was a $250+ waste of money.


My opinion - Useless.


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## hans911 (Jan 9, 2008)

I changed my last Holiday front yard layout to the bahamaboys system. It worked pretty well.
The hardest part I had was to get the radius of the curves correct. It seems I had track overhanging on both ends of my oval.
Any tips on getting this radius set then connecting the track to the temporary trestle?? 
I just cant seem to get it right and have to re do a few times and still isnt quite right.

Thanks for any tips.

P.H.


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## DMS (Dec 17, 2021)

bahamasboy said:


> OK, trying to post some pics here.. hopefully this will work.
> 
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> ...





bahamasboy said:


> OK, trying to post some pics here.. hopefully this will work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

That's an 11-year-old thread you are resurrecting. No problem, as the photos still work. Just don't expect too many replies from the original posters.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Bahamas boy last posted in 2009...

Greg


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