# Buying a used 1/2" Scale Coal Fired Pacific and Tender?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I am out of my depth here but I may be considering buying a used 1/2" Scale Coal Fired Pacific.

It is home made by a machinist (I have not seen it yet) and the builder is now deceased.

I have no idea what it would be worth or how much was home made or how to tell what condition it is in or what I should be looking for in terms of potential damage.

Apparently it has been stored in a garage for several years and there is no track with it. The builder apparently died before he built a layout to run it on.

I don't know how to test it or even to fire it up or for that matter for sure that it was completed before the guy died (his granddaughter is selling it).

For that matter what would it take to make tracks for it? How difficult and how expensive?

Any comments and suggestions would be appreciated and hopefully quickly as I expect to go see it shortly.

*My phone number is 501*843*6000 if it would be easier to phone with the information. Once I leave my cell phone is 501*690*3000.*

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

This may be a dumb question but why should I want to buy a home made 1/2" scale Pacific vs running my Aristo 1:32 scale Pacific?

I found this description on one web site which gave me some idea of the size to expect (it was a lot smaller than I expected):


*SPECIFICATIONS FOR SIX DRIVER ENGINES
*Length of Engine 29.5 Inches
Length of Tender 21 Inches
Height 7.75 Inches
Weight 38 Pounds
Track Gauge 2.5 Inches
Bore & Stroke 1 Inch x 1.25 Inches
Drive Wheel Diameter 3.5 Inches
Minimum Turn Radius 18 Feet
Valve Gear Walschaerts, Reversible From Cab
Boiler 3.5 Inch Diameter
Fuel Coal or Oil 


Jerry


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, this site has a lot of info: http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/index.htm 
Their ads might give you an idea.


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## therbert (Sep 18, 2008)

Jerry, those are the specs of the Little Engines 1/2" scale Pacific. 2.5" is Gauge 3, which enjoyed fairly limited popularity here in the US in the past. It was tried to give it a new breath of life in '90s, as the standard gauge alternative to Gauge 1's 3-foot narrow gauge. It is still popular in the UK, and there have been many beautiful garden tracks and live steam locomotives built in that scale and gauge. Little Engine, under new ownership, may still be a viable source for parts (castings) if you need anything, I don't know for sure.

As for the track, it would have to be hand-laid. Code 332 should work fine.

I considered building one of these engines for years, until the price of the castings started to go through the roof. Last time I checked, which was at least 5 or 6 years ago, the cost for the castings was over $1700 for the engine and tender, and delivery times were uncertain because the owner at that time was not stocking them, he was having them cast "as ordered," and it was such a small job that a lot of foundries wouldn't touch it.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By therbert on 19 Oct 2009 12:28 PM 
Jerry, those are the specs of the Little Engines 1/2" scale Pacific. 



Hi Tom,

You are correct but they are just the specs I found on the Little Engines website and not from the owner. When I tried to phone Little Engines most times the phone did not even ring but finally I was able to leave a messageI have no idea what brands of anything went into the building of the Pacific.

There seems to be very little information regarding 1/2" scale and I have not found any prices for anything or even if anyone offers rolling stock etc. in 1/2" scale. The potential value to me has been dropping the more I learn about the scale because it appears everything is made or assembled by hand and I would not know where to go for help if I ran into any problems.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I just talked to the lady and it apparently is 3/4" scale and runs on 3.5" track.[/b]

Jerry


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, buying an old loco like this is like buying a horse without ever having seen a horse before. If it has never been steamed - however unlikely that is, and you have to take the chance, since the builder has passed on - it will need a good look over from somebody who is qualified to dismantle it and test it under air pressure, water and maybe, depending on your law over there, on live steam, and certify it with a correct boiler certificate. Else you won't get insurance for it, and you won't be allowed to run it on another society track. 


This is a VERY popular scale everywhere in the civlised world - here in UK we call it 5" from the track gauge - you call it 4 3/4" gauge. It is the smallest ground level passenger hauling gauge/scale combination. It is NOT something that can watch - you have to sit behind it and drive it. as you say, it is not a 'toy' scale - in THIS scale EVERYTHING has to be made by engineering - there are not plastic short-cuts to building a live steam loco this big without building the real thing, but smaller. Many engineering skills are needed, and even then, it will often take years to build such a model. 

THIS is one of the best sites in the USA for everything to do with this gauge/scale - http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/fo...otive.html - about 200 or so dealers, casters, foundries, builders and more.

Best 

cousin tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## therbert (Sep 18, 2008)

Everything tacfoley said is absolutely true, except that 3/4" scale runs on 3 1/2" gauge track. 1" scale equiipment runs on 4 3/4" or 5" depending on where in the world you happen to be. 

3/4" scale is also enjoying a resurgence here in the US. My new elevated railway that is starting construction at the end of the month will have a 3 1/2" gauge loop on it, as well as two Gauge 1 tracks. But, as he says, it is a builder's scale -- it's unlikely that you would find any ready-to-run models, unless they are just like what you're looking at now, something that was built years ago, that is just coming back into the light of day. Also Kozo Hiraoka's books are producing some fine locos -- two different Shays, a Heisler, a Climax and a Pennsy A4 0-4-0 switcher.

You can look at http://www.friendsmodels.com/ to see what's becoming available in this scale, and another site that will give you a feel for what is going on is http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist . There's a lot of discussion about this scale there. 

A great source of knowledge about the larger scale live steam engines is going to be your local Live Steam club, if you have one.


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## Havoc (Jan 2, 2008)

Can we first get a grip on the track size please. Each post mentions something different and non compatible. 

- first post: 1/2" scale = 1:24 = 60mm track gauge for standard gauge prototype. Never heard of that before, that will have to be hand laid. Unless it is a 3.5' proto, then it is 45mm gauge 1 model track. 
- second post: 2.5" gauge = 64mm track gauge (2.5"). This is rather large live steam, the smallest you can sit behind if you have a raised track. Pre-made track available. 
- before last post: 3/4" scale = 1:16 = 89m track (3.5") for standard gauge proto. Comon ride-on scale on the raised track. Larger engines can pull a few people. Make - your own track. Could be 64mm track if a 3.5' proto is modelled. 
- last post: 5" gauge = 127mm track gauge (5") for standard gauge prototype. This is the larger ride on scale, can be on ground level, can be on raised track. Easy to pull a few people with it. Make your own track. 

Now what is it?


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Havoc on 19 Oct 2009 02:55 PM 
Can we first get a grip on the track size please. Each post mentions something different and non compatible. 

Now what is it? 

*The loco is 3/4" scale and the track is 3.5" gauge.*

To avoid confusion I have restarted the topic at: http://www.mylargescale.com/tabid/5...fault.aspx

Thanks,

Jerry


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By therbert on 19 Oct 2009 02:52 PM 
Everything tacfoley said is absolutely true, except that 3/4" scale runs on 3 1/2" gauge track. 1" scale equiipment runs on 4 3/4" or 5" depending on where in the world you happen to be. 

3/4" scale is also enjoying a resurgence here in the US. My new elevated railway that is starting construction at the end of the month will have a 3 1/2" gauge loop on it, as well as two Gauge 1 tracks. But, as he says, it is a builder's scale -- it's unlikely that you would find any ready-to-run models, unless they are just like what you're looking at now, something that was built years ago, that is just coming back into the light of day. Also Kozo Hiraoka's books are producing some fine locos -- two different Shays, a Heisler, a Climax and a Pennsy A4 0-4-0 switcher.

You can look at http://www.friendsmodels.com/ to see what's becoming available in this scale, and another site that will give you a feel for what is going on is http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist . There's a lot of discussion about this scale there. 

A great source of knowledge about the larger scale live steam engines is going to be your local Live Steam club, if you have one.


Doh.

I hold up my paw to this one.

It's been a loooooooong day paiinting six doors, two coats, both sides, and I'm tired. That's MY excuse. If there was a 'delete' button I'd use it, prolly on myself, the way I feel right now.

Of course, none of you guys have ever made a mistake, right?

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 19 Oct 2009 01:15 PM 
Jerry, buying an old loco like this is like buying a horse without ever having seen a horse before. 


Hi Cousin,

Perfect analogy. 

I once bought a couple of quarter horses never having ridden one and I soon discovered that the were a lot smarter than I was. They were better at knocking me off their backs than I was at staying on.

I soon learned far more about horses than I ever dreamed or wanted to. I don't know what horse meat tastes like but I was tempted to find out.









They arrived when my daughters grades went up and they departed when her grades went down.

Jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry how about a 1 inch scale loco gage 4 1/2 inches and it is coal fired also. Engine, Caboose track and some extra truck $3000.00. All hand built 4-4-2 Later RJD


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 19 Oct 2009 06:57 PM 
Jerry how about a 1 inch scale loco gage 4 1/2 inches and it is coal fired also. Engine, Caboose track and some extra truck $3000.00. All hand built 4-4-2 Later RJD 
My wife would probably kill me (or make me remodel her ****** kitchen) but go ahead and tell me about it.









Hanging around you guys is like dropping into a bar at Happy Hour to ask for directions to church. 

Jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Not much more to add. It was last run about 5 years ago and he made the loco and caboose, Had one heck of a shop.Has a couple extra pair of trucks so one could build some cars. Also some Aluminum track goes with it. The train is located about 6 miles from where I live. So its probably come get it thing.





























If your interested I can provide you with the persons name and number. Later RJD


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

It is probably a great deal but I am on the downside of having decided against the Pacific and realizing that I would probably not have the energy or enthusiasm to pursue another gauge layout to fund and build.

My wife is planning to retire in 1 1/2 years so our spending has to be adjusted to be out of debt by then. The Pacific caught my attention because it was only about 30 miles away. I think I had better pass on it.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok Jerry you posted about being interested so now you just change your mind. Why ask the question other than for others, Maybe info to what the price should be. Maybe trying to give the gal an Idea what price it should be. Strange. Later RJD


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 20 Oct 2009 06:14 PM 
Ok Jerry you posted about being interested so now you just change your mind. Why ask the question other than for others, Maybe info to what the price should be. Maybe trying to give the gal an Idea what price it should be. Strange. Later RJD 

Not so strange. I was curious rather than interested. 

I had already phoned her and ended the discussion about the Pacific. The Pacific was old but virtually unused. The Northern looked to be in great shape. Both were clean looking and seemed to show little wear and tear.

The 4-4-2 wheel arrangement is of less interest to me and with my size would probably be less suitable for me plus it showed evidence of a lot of wear and tear and not having been cleaned up the last time it was run. I also have no idea where it is located but moving it would probably be a major additional expense.

It just did not appeal to me and the whole concept of a ride on live steamer is not something I have a strong interest in but that does not keep me from being curious.

Rather than pursue it further and waste your time and that of the owner I simply expressed a lack of interest.

I did not ask if anyone knew of any other live steamers or say that I wanted to buy one but rather I was responding to a suggestion you made to look at the 4-4-2. I am curious about many things but I only buy a tiny percentage of what I look at. I don't understand why you seem upset about it.

Jerry


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