# Attention fellow eBay sellers, feedback change



## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

All:

Having bought and sold on eBay for nearly ten years of everything from a $1 CD to automobiles,  I had a bit of a surprise in the in box:

Anyone else catch this?

http://pages.ebay.com/sell/update08/rewards/index.html?ov=004KO

Edited to my point below:

_Feedback Changes_
_The eBay Feedback system was designed to provide a simple, honest, accurate record of member experiences. Focusing on customer service includes doing everything we can to grow customer confidence in our sellers. _ _-Buyers will only be able to receive positive Feedback. 

_It appears that sellers will have no recourse or no warnings now of buyers who do not pay, make demands after the sale, have excessive chargebacks or are a general PITA to sellers.

I have e-mailed eBay wondering what was the logic behind this, I wonder if I will get an answer./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting comment about feedback.  

I am growing increasingly disgusted with sellers that hold positive feedback hostage to buyers until positive feedback is given the seller [FIRST].  My way of thinking is that if I pay promptly, I have completed my obligations for receiving positive feedback, no matter what feedback  the seller should receive.  
I recently purchased a computer power adapter.  I paid by PayPal within 24 hours.  When received, the AC power input cord was significantly different than pictured.  I wrote to the seller questioning the difference.  Seller replied to my first query that the picture would soon be changed and what I received would work [true, but not in the environment I bought it for].    The seller did not respond to second query.  Seller has not given me feedback [and neither have I, to seller] as of almost three weeks.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif  As a result of the difference in the item [no long cord] I will have to buy the extended cord somewhere else.  

Jim C.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, 
You can complain to PayPal, works pretty good. Jerry


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's more information about the changes.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2008/tc20080129_981043.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_businessweek+exclusives


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## jaycosnett (Jan 4, 2008)

Garrett, 

On the face of it, you're right, this change doesn't seem fair. 

But the feedback system has long been biased in favor of large (full-time) sellers against every-day buyers. A commercial seller may have a feedback score in the thousands or tens of thousands--that's how they make their living, year after year. So, to them, a single "negative" might bump their score from 99.9% positive to 99.89% positive--not a big disincentive for them against making an unhappy customer. But a "regular Joe" buyer (who does not make his living buying or selling stuff), might have a score in the tens or hundreds. If I have a positive 20 score and I get a negative feedback from a professional seller (maybe in retaliation for a negative I gave them), my 100% positive plummets to 95%--which might give a buyer serious pause if I decide to sell something at a later date. So the system tends to encourage buyers to "make nice" with sellers, even if they feel they've been dinked around--I know I have not given any feedback after a sour transaction because I didn't want to risk a negative spoiling my 100% positive. 

To my mind, the Positive/Negative black-and-white nature of feedback is what should be changed. I'd like to have the ratings that buyers now give sellers (1-5 on various aspects of the transaction) be the actual feedback--that way, people can see what I liked and didn't like about a transaction, AND there wouldn't be a way for a seller to say "they said bad things about me so I'm going to say bad things about them," at least not as brazenly. In Jim C.'s example, he could clearly state that there was a problem regarding "item matched description" without having to rate the entire transaction a "negative." If the seller had a problem with Jim (other than Jim's rating of the transaction) he would have to specify what that was. 

Not that they'll listen to me, but...


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jay- good ideas there, not that they will listen.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif

Wow, by that article, looks like they want to be the next Amazon.com?!?!

eBay has changed big time from in the 1990s when I dumped a buch of car repair manuals, parts and tools.  Back in the days of cash and money orders, no automated check out, and no picture hosting, it was actually kind of fun....

I am sure something else will come along and fill the void for litlle stuff.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

This is fantastic!!! Now i can buy stuff, hassle the seller, complain about shipping, claim the item is broken when i get it (even though i refuse insurance) or claim i never got it (because i refuse to pay tracking) then cancel my money order or claim fraud to paypal!!!!! And the seller will have no recourse other than the craptastic claims dispute that ebay and paypal have that cater to the big sellers and forget about the "little" guys. 

What a crock of $h!']['. 

As a seller i am soooooo tired of these third rate human beings that try to scam me. You hear every sob story that has existed, about payment, shipping you name it. Jim, i understand your plight with waiting for positive feedback. For me the problem arises when i ship an item which i now have to force insurance and tracking on people which takes away from my total sale because no one wants to pay that extra cost (even though if you bought it at a store the cost of shipping, overhead etc etc etc is added to the cost) They pay on time, i leave them positive feedback and i ship, the post office destroys the package enroute then i get negative feedback for something i had no control over. Or better yet, someone buys a loco from me then when they get it they claim it is the wrong color even though it's the same EXACT loco as in the picture. It Turns out they had me confused with another seller. Ever read the part of feedback where it says it is permanant? So now I get negative feedback because someone is a moron. 

Being a small time seller these things hurt me badly. People won't buy from you if your rating is below 99%. Most people won't read the feedback where it states i'm not guilty of anything they just see the negative and pass me buy. Thats why i now wait to post positive feedback. In the very least it can force them to talk to me. They say it arrives damaged I say send a picture of it. They say it didn't arrive i check the tracking. True it may not be right of me to wait but i'm tired of being held hostage over negative feedback as well. The only difference is I state it directly in my auction listing so anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to bid. 

Ebay used to be fun. I used to make some extra cash selling stuff so i could put it into my hobby. Anymore it's a PITA 
Terry


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Fascinating. I am just a buyer. In fact, since joining MLS, I have purchased many railroad-related items from Ebay. Feedback has never been an issue for me. And last ime I checked 
I as a purchaser had a 100 per cent rating. I have only had one negative experience in that time--and never with individual sellers. My biggest concern has been exorbitant shipping rates to Alaska via UPS and FedEX, but I have alleviated that somewhat by using the Ship-to-Alaska company service in Tukwila Washington.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, I am in total agreement with you. I barely squeaked into the "Power Seller" program but probably won't hold that title for much longer (I'm almost out of all our spring-cleaning items that got me the title in the first place). 

I am lucky if I can get HALF of my buyers to leave feedback for me; I have a 100% POSITIVE feedback rating that I have worked very hard to maintain and I really bust my rear end to get items shipped out in a timely manner. Yet too often I get no consideration or respect for my hard work when the buyer is too lazy to leave feedback. So, I have adopted the policy of making the buyer leave feedback first, before I leave feedback for the buyer. This has actually worked to my advantage. 

For a while, I adopted the policy of requiring insurance on all packages sent through the US Mail, due to the amount of complaints I received about packages being damaged in transit (and I pack my boxes VERY well). However, I noticed a drop-off in bidders/buyers, so I dropped the insurance requirement in favor of a strong recommendation for insurance, and the bidding level came back to where it was. 

One of my pet peeves involves shipping. I am VERY accurate and specific when it comes to packaging & shipping, and I go to great lengths to get box sizes & weights JUST RIGHT for each listing, to reflect ACTUAL SHIPPING CHARGES. I regularly get angry messages from bidders such as "TOO MUCH SHIPPING!!! I REPORT YOU" (no kidding!). What do they expect me to do, hand-deliver the item to them? Sometimes I even have to hand-cut a box to size in order to get it under the "Oversize" designation by USPS, but I receive nothing for the time it takes to do this...I don't charge any handling fees like other sellers do. 

Lately I've received a slew of messages from European bidders about shipping charges to their countries, when RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE is a shipping calculator; all you have to do is plug in your country or ZIP code, and you are given the ACTUAL SHIPPING CHARGE. So, when I reply to them, I use the same shipping calculator on the page and let them know about it. 

Lastly, I don't know why it is so hard for buyers to read my auction listings; I don't add a bunch of superfluous text or nonsense, but my listings CLEARLY state that I happily combine shipping on multiple items. Yet I still get tons of inquiries regarding whether or not I actually do this (no, I just say that I do when I really don't....PUH-LEAZE). 

I've had many deadbeat bidders, invariably using the old excuse "my kid got hold of my username & password and bid without my knowledge" or "my kid used my credit card to register as a user and bid on your items, but I'm not paying for anything." What a bunch of crap!! I still get charged fees because someone is too dishonest to honor their winning bid, and I have to go through the long, drawn-out PITA Non-Paying Bidders process. I've had to leave negative feedback for several buyers (which I don't like to do) because they won the auction, but that was the last I ever heard of them and they never paid. They deserve negative feedback!!! As I understand it, a buyer can be booted from the eBay system if they are found guilty of not paying for winning an item, but I still like to have the option of leaving negative feedback.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Just another reason to stay away from the place. We do have classified ads here, you know!!!


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

knowing the feedback situation just to add a little fuel to the fire about "EVIL BAY" IN a conversation with one of they're representatives the other day i asked the question " is'nt ebay and paypal owned by the same guy"? the response i got was well yes they are owned by the same person but they are seperate companies. Well i guess then when you pay your ebay fees insertion and final, and then you get hit with paypal fees when you sell and if you sell you are getting a double whammy from both sides and the money is going into the same guys pocket. Tried to point out this fact to the person a ebay, but they werent willing to agree! Simply if you own several companies even though they are seperate companies after expenses doesn't the money go to the same guy???????? it would if i were the owner how about you? Heh guys give me your comments or advise on since this is owned by the same guy how can a guy reclaim some of the money fees and such without upsetting the buyers???????? I'm thinking about starting to charge a 3-4% charge on final invoice to just cover the paypal fees, i know this will probably upset the buyers, but im tired of selling things trying to be fair, and then getting hit from both sides by the same guy, and then when figuring all the costs and fees not counting time supplies gas materials to ship end of selling an item that is $200+ retail and i get $132 net after everything and the buyer is complaining about the shipping costs and or the price of the item! I know its my choice to sell or not to sell, but there has to be a reasonable way and a way in which to reclaim all these fees and not turn off the buyers to your site! Let me know what you guys think I am only in the model train site pretty much dont sell anywhere else "By the way some guy paid $432 for a lgb dome car last night i sold fact brand new ones for $159 "Where are these guys when im selling????????? Would like to meet them as i have some Lgb things i would like to sell them now! ho ho


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's my take on the situation as I posted on another forum: 

As I see it, the problem with feedback from either direction is that emotions tend to override common sense and civility. Heck, you see that on this and other forums all the time--even daily. My personal feeling is that a good many people get caught up in the "freedom" they feel with the Internet and have little regard for the impact of the words they pound out on a computer keyboard with nearly complete immunity and virtual anonymity. 

Just my personal opinion. 
------------------- 

Doesn't affect me one way or the other since I long ago gave up buying and selling on eBay after it became too costly and too complex. It was fine back in the early days.


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

*Ironically, after having done little or no selling on eBay for about a year/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif, I had recently started selling again there.  Part of it was due to a MAJOR cellar - cleaning project /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif to get space to build a new workshop in; I finally convinced my 88 - year old Dad (who, though I love him/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/doze.gif, defines the term "pack rat"!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif).  In cleaning out that cellar room (which turned out to be a "time capsule" from around 1950 ~ 1965!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif), I came across some toys that dated back to when I was around 5 years old!  (& I just turned 55! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif).  I've listed two of them on eBay so far - a cap gun & a small tin bank - & got nearly $100 total for them!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif

Then, 2 weeks ago, I purchased a complete USA Trains New Haven 5-car streamliner set from Charles Ro at the Amhearst Railway Society show in Springfield ($$$$); to make up for what I spent there, I decided to put some of my older O-scale (2-rail DC) equipment up for sale on eBay (a 5-car PRR passenger train of super-detailed Walther's cars), & 2 brass O-scale locomotives, an Overland Models E8A & an older KTM PRR K4s Pacific (the listing on the K4s starts tonight).  I've already got a decent bid on the E8, & a lot /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif of interest (although no bids yet- I think everyone's waiting until late in the auction to bid/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif) on the passenger set.  I had received the e-mail from eBay regarding the fee changes, just saw "lower listing fees", & thought "cool"!
   
THEN I began seeing articles on CNN's financial site about an "eBay seller's REVOLT!"/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif

I read a bit further & found out what's getting seller's up in arms/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif...

Buyers can still give sellers negative feedback, but sellers will be UNABLE to give negative feedback to buyers who don't pay/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif or are otherwise obnoxious!

The initial listing fees WILL be lower; but the "bite" eBay takes at the auction end will be BIGGER!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif

& this to me is the most objectionable of all!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif...if you have less than 100% feedback, PayPal will withhold payment to you for up to 21 days!!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif  - I'm fortunate to have maintained a 100% feedback rating to date, but all it would take is ONE disgruntled or sleazeball /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/doze.gif buyer to RUIN that!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif

I'm seeing calls from sellers for a "strike" against eBay/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif  (NO new listings or buying!); I think the date I saw mentioned was Feb. 18th, 2 days before the new rules are to go into effect.

At this point, my auctions are scheduled to end by Feb. 14th - & BOY am I glad!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif

There is lots of chatter about eBay sellers defecting to competing sites - I think their management may have killed "the goose that laid the golden egg"!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif                                                                                        Tom

*


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## sschaer (Jan 2, 2008)

now this sucks big time ! 

i recently had a buyer who claimed heavy shipping damages two weeks after he received the loco ! obviously not a very honest person. if i can't leave negative feedback in such a situation i probably stop selling on ebay.


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## MasonsDad (Feb 7, 2008)

I buy and sell on Ebay and have had 2 " gentlemen" persay leave negative feedback one was because he wanted a Rolls Royce on a Volkwagon budget and the second Jerk ripped me off by not sending the item I purchased and then left negative feed back,he took the money and ran , i still keep plugging away at it though until something better comes along , but now as a seller I found out that thru the postal system and FBI can get involved with any transaction on Ebay mainly to Check complaints of Fraud, identity theft and the like so as sellers we have that on our side now too and as a seller DO NOT hesitate to use that right. and when wording your auction ad be sure you dot ever I and cross every T and cover your hind end  . for instance your return policies, shipping policy, payment policy word them so that even a complete idiot can understand them, anyways that my take on the situation, Take care
Ben


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