# #9 Turnout Build



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

After discussing at length the idea of building correct 1/29 track (I'm calling it P:29) See the link.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...122415/afv/topic/afpgj/11/Default.aspx#248923 

I've started the first major project: a full length #9 turnout based of NP standard plans. I've got most of the rail cut now, and am working on finishing up the frog. Here's some pictures of the full plan.










I started buy super gluing tie plates to the rail to insure correct tie spacing on the turnout. I've tried to keep as long of pieces of rail as possible, but wanted to include the look of 39' sections. I cut the web, and head of the rail to represent a joint.









I then spiked the rails to the tie









Here's the progress so far









Next up building the frog. I'm trying to use similar methods that the NP used to build their frogs. A lot of filing, checking, filing, and filing more! 



















Craig


----------



## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

Very nice work! I love seeing how people tackle turnout builds...


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

More progress on the turnout build. The hardest parts are now getting over! The frog is complete. The last major hurtle is to make one more point. I'm tired of filing right now, so I think I will put that off for a while.
I added some Atlas Track Nails to one wing rail to represent bolt heads. The opposite side will get NBW detail.









The complete frog is 16' 6"









Checking clearance as I glued it to a piece of .010" styrene.



















The truck rolls through with not much else then a click as the wheel hits the frog. I may end up touching up the point of the frog slightly when the whole turnout is completed.










The next part of this project is to build tie plates and angle brackets that hold the rail near the points. I need both something that will keep the rail in gauge, but also be in scale. I may end up doing more filing this time with styrene









Craig


----------



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Close clearances there! Hopefully not too close. Who makes the tie plates that you're using? Those look really good.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

The tie plates are from Hartford products. They are the only 4 spike per plate tie plate that I could find. 
http://shop.hartfordproducts.com/ca...3997F390675B745A94.qscstrfrnt03?categoryId=61 

The clearances are tight, but I want to keep them tight! That's why I like handlaying. I know what the track will be like, and can control the tolerances. 

Craig


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What do the flangeway widths come out to on the frog? Will you do anything to control the depth? 

Regards, Greg


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Looking great. 

Where did you get that scale ruler? 

JJ


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By John J on 24 Dec 2011 08:46 AM 
Looking great. 

Where did you get that scale ruler? 

JJ 
JJ,
From The Rail Scale
http://therailscale.com/
I have 3 different sizes. One that fits in the wallet (credit card size), a 24" metal ruler that has 1/29 and 1/87 and a 18" plastic one that has 1/29 and inches. 
I've gotten a lot of use out of them, and they seem to hold up fairly well. You can customize the rules to what you want on it. 

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 24 Dec 2011 08:32 AM 
What do the flangeway widths come out to on the frog? Will you do anything to control the depth? 

Regards, Greg 
Here's the measurements Greg-
Depth .215" no plans right now to control the depth. The wheel doesn't drop between the wing and the point. The wheel is wide enough that it rides the outer part of the wing rail, and then it hits the point. At no point does it seem like it wheel drops at all. 

Flangeway width is .080" One side is slightly less at .070", but I know I need to run the file a little bit to open it up. I should have set a piece of styrene or so other spacer in the flangeway when I glued it to the styrene, but I forgot. 

Just looking at the gauge one standards-
Flange is .120", scale track is .069" 


The flange on the stock USA wheel is .082", the NWSL wheel flange is .100". So I've got to open up a little bit of the flangeway and the area where the wing rails come together. I used the USA wheel set to set the flange widths when I was glueing it up. Nothing a couple of swipes with a file won't fix.












Craig 

Edit- Add picture


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's a comparison to a Llagas Creek #4 frog 








The gap on the #4 frog is about 3/4" and on mine it's about 1" 

Craig


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, you even detail your switches. 

I figure I'm lucky just to keep the train from falling off.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm planning on making a casting of this frog eventually so I only have to detail a frog like this once. I don't know if I would do that if I had to build more then one. In the future I'll be building a #11 turnout, so the #11 frog will get the same level of detail. The area I'm modeling only uses #9's and #11's so that simplifies the process just a little bit! 
The points should have the same amount of detail too. I'm trying to figure out a way to build the tie gauges that hold the points in gauge. That may be another episode of "fun filing with Craig" LOL 


Craig


----------



## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Craig: you might want to look at microfasteners.com for hardware to attach your tie bars.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Burl, 
I haven't really looked yet at the plans to see what size I would need, but I'll keep that in mind. I'm figuring the that tie bars themselves might start out as brass rod, and then file to shape. I would like to have working bolts for those parts. 
But again I haven't really studied the point plans quite yet to figure everything out. It's a work in progress between semesters in grad school. 

Anyone one know of some high stand switch stands in O scale? I have one from Llagas but it's fairly tall (6' scale feet). 

Craig


----------



## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Craig, 

Looks great so far! I don't recall if llagas started casting there #10 and #8 frogs yet, but the ones I had were pretty nice. They also have casted point rails with bolt detail and the simply fit into the main stock rails without having to file them at all, but again, I don't recall for what size switch and what sized rail. 

Cliff Barker has a store in the UK that makes some neat stuff for prototype switches, may want to check them out (switch stands, point rails, frogs, joiners, chairs, etc): 
http://www.cliffbarker.talktalk.net/gauge1products.html 


Have fun! 
-Ray


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

The llagas points and frogs aren't quite as long as I would like them to be. Llagas does have #8's and #10's available, but I want to use #9's and #11's. I know it's not that much of a difference, but because I'm wanting to move towards prototype modeling in 1/29 (that includes the correct 56.5" track gauge) I know that I would not be happy with a #8 or #10. The points are really detailed (I have both the #4, #6 frogs and points in code 250), but again they are too short length wise. The points I need are 16' 6" long. It doesn't take to long to file the points out. I've got one almost finished, and need to start working on the other one soon. I'm not going to file the stock rail at all either. My plan is to cast both the frog and the points eventually so I don't have to continue to make them. I may end up casting the frog in resin, and then trying the points in the low temp metal that is offered in Mirco-Mark. But that's in the future.. 
I've seen the stuff by Cliff, and like it a lot, but it's all British modeling. Close but no cigar again. 

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Anyone know of a source for .025" square head bolts? I've found .028" simulated square bolts from 
http://www.scalehardware.com/simulated-square-bolts-c-8 
That seems to be the smallest I can find. I'm also looking for some .025" rivet heads. Or something close. 









I don't know how well you can see the details in the image, but the bolts I'm looking for are for the gauge plate, and the head rods. 


Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's the plan for the frog. 








If anyone wants a copy of the plans send me a PM with your email. 
Craig


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful job Craig. I used to sometimes think of detailing my track like you, but always managed to suppress the urge!

P.S. There are similar plans on the web for PRR engineering at http://prr.railfan.net/standards/ 
[that's prr.railfan.net/standards/ if the link doesn't work.] 

There are also plans for the D&RGW narrow gauge track which used to be online, but the 'owner' decided to sell a CD instead.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the NP plans might still be on the NP historical society website too. The I've got copies of NP, GN, BN, & BNSF plans (at one point they were open to the public on the BNSF webpage!). It's interesting to look at the different plans and see how different each turnout, track segment, etc is between the 4 different companies. I'm enjoying detailing my track as I feel it's just as important as detailing my locomotives, cars, etc. This experiment in building in the correct 56.5" gauge has proved to be fairly easy and mostly effortless. 

Still trying to figure out what to use to present the square bolts heads. I may end up looking at HO scale NBW castings again. The only other major hurtle I'm trying to solve right now is a scale sized high stand switch. Everything I've found so far is out of scale for me. This may be a compromise in scale, but I'm thinking that O scale switch stands might be oversized enough in O to work in 1/29, and still have enough throw to move the points. If worse comes to worst I could scratch build a switch stand. 

It might be a while before I post more progress shots, as the next couple of weeks look to be fairly busy. 

Craig


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Still trying to figure out what to use to present the square bolts heads 
There was a discussion on Square Nuts & Bolts a while ago - the thread is http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/afv/topic/aff/8/aft/60478/Default.aspx 
[use www (dot) mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/afv/topic/aff/8/aft/60478/Default.aspx 
if that link doesn't work.] 

Grandt Line makes a bunch of plastic bits for O scale. We found some rivets that would work on our EBT M-1 which are a scale 1.25" (approx 0.06157" actual,) so they should have something close to 0.025". http://www.grandtline.com/product_listing.htm [or grandtline.com.] 

Also check their 'augmentables - they seem to have some square nuts http://www.grandtline.com/model_railroad/augmentables_pages.htm
[ grandtline.com/model_railroad/augmentables_pages.htm ]


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
Thanks for the links. I think I may have to use the simulated square nuts that I found. Thanks again for the links as now I may have a source for rivet heads. 

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Good news and bad news. I discovered that I completely screwed up my original idea of gluing the frog together on a piece of .010" styrene, with the intention of gluing on .020" styrene tie plates to make a total of .030" height that is similar to the the hardford tie plate. After trying to cut out tie plates, and then glue them to the frog I realized I was doing everything wrong... Good news is that I have a better idea, and it will allow me correctly make flangeway depth. I'm going to use .040" (I don't have .030" on hand, and it seems that the metal tie plates vary from .030"-.036") and outline all the frog tie plates on a single piece, cut out, and then reglue the frog together. This way the tie plates are a part of the frog assembly and not separate. I'm also going to place a .100" spacer between the wing rail and the point to insure that the flangeway width is correct (NWSL wheels are .100" wide, USA seem to be ~.080"). 
Here's what I think I may use for the switch stand. 








The base is too wide, but I think I may be able to file/cut of the base and still have the stand to a more scale width. 

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

So it's been a while since I updated my progress. I ended up tearing apart the frog I had previously made, because I couldn't figure out a simple and effective way to make tie plates for the frog. After studying my engineering drawings I came up with a simple solution, much like the BN had did.









Instead of individual tie plates I would make one giant one. The BN did a similar thing but it was 4 different plates. It started with a blank sheet of .030" styrene...After drawing everything out I had something to work off of. I then glued up the frog again (using styrene spacers to get the correct flangeway depth), and drilled spike holes.


















In this picture you can see how I didn't cut the tie plates to the exact length so that I could file them nice and square after the frog was assembled.









I still have to square off the tie plates with a file but it looks much better then the first attempt, and it should hold everything together nicely. Now that I have the frog built the rest of the turnout should go fairly quickly. I still have one more point to file. I'm not really looking forward to that, but I need to start as a little each day gets it done!

Craig


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Styrene? Are you using them outdoors? 

I'm very, very impressed! I've handlaid in HO scale, and your work is some of the best I've seen. 

Robert


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the styrene should be fine once it's painted. But if not I'm planning on making a mold and casting my frogs and points so I don't have to continue to make them. Burl has cast frogs for his layout and doesn't seem to hve a problem so I thought I should be safe on that route too. For the points I'm thinking I may try the low temp melt metal that Mirco-Mark sells. Either way it's still little bit of time away as I have to finish grad school and get back all my shop equipment so I can actually do all the casting. 

Craig


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Instead of individual tie plates I would make one giant one 
Craig, 

My solution was to take a tie plate and cut it in half. Each half could be placed under the outer rail and no-one was any the wiser.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 28 Feb 2012 08:00 AM 
Instead of individual tie plates I would make one giant one 
Craig, 

My solution was to take a tie plate and cut it in half. Each half could be placed under the outer rail and no-one was any the wiser. 
Pete,
I thought about that for awhile, but quickly discarded that idea for a couple of reasons. First the frog tie plates are completely smooth and do not have a cast lip like the regular plates, and secondly my frog assembly wouldn't stay together with that method. And I was being anal and would notice that the frog assembly would then sit .030" lower then the surrounding rail. So by building a large plate out of .030" I get both the same height, and do not have any problems with the strength of the frog.

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Not the best picture, but it shows how smooth the track flows.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm very impressed. Keep the project going.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Okay, I'm completely stumped. I'm trying to figure out how to make the part circled in green. It holds the outside rail in gauge on the turnout.... 
















The problem is it's only ~3" wide at the top. 
Here's the engineering drawing. I can't get a close up of the drawing. 








I've got to make 18 of these suckers too! Argh I miss my casting stuff! 
So far my ideas have been: styrene - file to shape, sculpy clay- shape the general shape, bake, and file... Any other ideas? Not only does it have to slide under the head of the rail, but it also has to conform to the base of the rail.... 
Craig


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Craig; 

Could you adapt a plastic coffee stir tube to the required shape and cement it to a styrene plate, then use the assembly as a master for casting? 

Perhaps not the best starting point, but that was the first thing that came to my mind. 

Best, 
David Meashey


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Craig, 

As you are striving for total realism, I am reluctant to post this! Anyway, I have some tie plates for the point blades that have a rail support like the one the show, and a flat piece under the rail and inside for the point blade to slide on. I think they came from tenmille but I won't be home for another week.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Humm.... It would be interesting to take a look at a picture. I don't think I will actually model the piece under the point rail, because as of now, my points are the same height as the stock rail, and I don't think I can file anymore down without losing the strength of the point. 
My attempt to make them out of sculpy was an epic failure last night.. 

Craig


----------



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I have a couple of those for 30 pound rail, but I think they would be a bit too big for your project.


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

"Here's the engineering drawing. I can't get a close up of the drawing." 

Try this: 

http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/operations/specs/track/index.shtml 

Look down about halfway for detailed turnout plans. 

Hope that helps! 

Robert


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 16 Mar 2012 09:34 PM 
"Here's the engineering drawing. I can't get a close up of the drawing." 

Try this: 

http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/operations/specs/track/index.shtml 

Look down about halfway for detailed turnout plans. 

Hope that helps! 

Robert 


I actually have the full NP PDF, I just couldn't zoom in and copy it to post. The BNSF use to have the GN, NP, and BN standard plans online and available to the public. That's when I download everything. Since then they've been restricted to employee access (when I was at work I use to pull up the engineering drawings all the time, everything from structures to signals has a standard plan).

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Amber on 16 Mar 2012 08:50 PM 
I have a couple of those for 30 pound rail, but I think they would be a bit too big for your project. 
Just a tad bit! LOL

Craig


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I just couldn't zoom in and copy it to post 
_The trick is to zoom in on the PDF and then hit Alt-PrtScrn. That copies the current window to the clipboard, and you can paste it into some picture program and save it._ 




It would be interesting to take a look at a picture. 
Sorry but I am in FL and a long way from the box. Tenmille.com lists the part but doesn't show a picture. 

Edit: Aha - found my old trackbits photos.





























The point slider is the large brown piece with spike holes in it. It seems to have the cruved support you were looking for.

I don't think I will actually model the piece under the point rail, because as of now, my points are the same height as the stock rail 
I'm curious about your points being the same height as the stock rail. When we were helping Fred (?) with his "first attempt at turnout building" [google that title] we had a long discussion about points and prototype practice. The Pennsy drawings show that the point rail was bent upwards towards the tip (thinnest end) so the web between the top and bottom of the rail became the thin point edge, and the foot of the rail fit over the bottom of the stock rail - thus adding lots of strength. Didn't NP do the same? 
Edit: found the images we used then:


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
Thanks for the tip. Here's the NP standard plans for the points blown up. It's very similar to the plans that got talked about (I remember that thread too) 








Here's kind of what I did. 







The red being what I filed out of a piece of rail. While not exactly perfect, I think it may work. To get something exactly perfect would require setting up a milling operation. That certainly would make things easier! The base of the rail on my point is very thin at the moment, and I don't think I can get a way with filing any more off without destroying the whole point. 
I think those temile plates would work quite well. Is this the part number? POINT SLIDE CHAIR. PACK 10 - GS015 










Craig


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The red being what I filed out of a piece of rail. While not exactly perfect, I think it may work. To get something exactly perfect would require setting up a milling operation. 
Craig, 

I'm sure it will work, as I did all my points that way for years! 
However, as I tried hard to explain in the old thread, it seems the point rail was bent upwards towards the point. This allows you to (a) leave more metal on the foot, as it fits over the foot of the stocfk rail and (b) grind off to the edge of the web between foot and head.














I think those temile plates would work quite well. Is this the part number? POINT SLIDE CHAIR. PACK 10 - GS015

That's the Tenmille (10mm:ft - get it?) item, but not having them or my files with me in Fl, I can't swear to it. If you email me your address I will send you one when I get home (end of the month.) If you can't wait, I have had success phoning GRS UK and having them mail me stuff. They have the part number on their website (grsuk.com).


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's where the point rail gets bent upward. 








It's interesting how somethings can be scaled down correctly, but others can not. I'm sure it's technically possible to recreate the bend, and mill out the point like the prototype, but it seems difficult at best. Looking at the llagas points (which in my opinion are great points, but are too short for me), and the point I filed the look very similar in design. The llagas ones having a slightly thicker web at the point tip. Again that's something that looks like it was milled out, rather then hand filed. The llagas point set has the web of the point rail, fit snug into the web of the stock rail, something that mine doesn't do. 

Craig


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

and mill out the point 
Mill? How do you do that? I always used a file.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 18 Mar 2012 12:31 PM 
and mill out the point 
Mill? How do you do that? I always used a file. 
If I knew someone that lived close to me that had a mill I would mill it out. For now it's just the standard file!


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm just curious, but what is the overall length of the turnout in real world feet and inches? 

It must be close to, what, three feet long? 

Robert


----------



## spincaster (Mar 10, 2012)

Craig, 

Those rail supports could be designed in CAD and the pattern could be 3D printed. The printed pattern, after a bit of tweeking, could be used to make a mold to cast Britannia metal parts. Not easy or cheap but it would result in nice parts.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Robert, 
The turnout in the real world from point to frog is 72'. In scale it's 72' actual 40.5" from end to end. 

I would love to print those parts out in 3D. I just don't have the $$ or the printer! Ideally I would like to cast the point and the frog in metal at some point. 

Craig


----------



## spincaster (Mar 10, 2012)

Craig, 

Contact please me via email [email protected]


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bnsfconductor on 21 Mar 2012 07:50 PM 
Robert, 
The turnout in the real world from point to frog is 72'. In scale it's 72' actual 40.5" from end to end. 

I would love to print those parts out in 3D. I just don't have the $$ or the printer! Ideally I would like to cast the point and the frog in metal at some point. 

Craig 

Craig,
I'm not sure there is a lot of demand for #9 switches that are 40+" long. The #6 (9.5' radius) are bad enough!


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
I was thinking about casting the parts for my own use! Burl has had resin frogs outside for a while, and he told me that he hasn't had any problems with them at all. The points would need to be a little stronger, that's why I was thinking a low temp metal. 
I know people aren't crazy enough like me to want to build a large turnout, nor have the room. Most likely it would be way to cost prohibitive for me to 3D print parts. Yikes I don't have that kind of $! So therefore I'm left to my own means. I'll figure out a way to build the parts eventually... 
Does this explain my reasoning? 

Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So If I have this right, I must be "super crazy", 'cause a no. 14 switch is 72" long .....mmmmm, works for me!!! he he. 

I like LARGE turnouts tho. 

Craig - we could/should start a "Crazy Railroad Club"...It works for US !! 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Most likely it would be way to cost prohibitive for me to 3D print parts 
Craig, 

I doubt it. You'd be surprised how economical it can be. Geoff is having a brass parts supplier make him steps and stuff from his masters. Talk to Jack at freshwater. 

'cause a no. 14 switch is 72" long 
Yes, but wouldn't that be classified as a 'high-speed' switch and you'd need 3 tie bars and a powered frog that closed the gap on the un-selected path? Sounds like a lot of work...


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Dirk, 
I've got plans for a #20 turnout it's only a mere 145 scale feet.... or 4.9' from point to frog..... What to build one of those???? 


Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
A #14 turnout is NOT a high speed turnout. A #14 turnout is still a 35mph turnout for trains less then 100 TOB & Passenger, trains over 100 TOB are 25mph. A #24 turnout is still only 50mph for freight and passenger... Trains over 100 TOB are restricted to 35 still...And that's without a moveable frog... It's fun going from 50 mph down to 25 to hit the crossover.... Or even better on Amtrack going 79 and slowing down to hit the crossover at 50...

I'm talking w/Jack right now to figure out how much it would cost. 

Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I too have plans for the #20 switch!! it's what crazy modelers do - isn't it? 

I have not spent much time considering their use on My layout however. mmm, wonder if I should have just a few of 'em tho !! I just have not seen them used locally anywhere, to really support the idea however! Everything is 14's or less.... food for thought tho! 

A number 14 is HIGH speed, just on the straight side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Your work is still inspiring too!! Keep it up Craig!! 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Pete - for pics of My #14 switch work - go to Track, Trestles, etc, and on the 4th page you'll find "DMS Ry. - One Man's Journey". It is all about my layout and switch work to date, needs to be updated sometime!! 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 22 Mar 2012 10:25 PM 


A number 14 is HIGH speed, just on the straight side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


Dirk 
DMS Ry. 


Turnout speeds aren't measured on the straight side! The speed is determined by the diverging route, so that's why I said a #14 is still a low turnout speed. 

Doesn't anyone want to know what TOB stands for??? I thought for sure someone would ask.

I can't imagine having a #20 turnout. I know a HO modeler who built a #25 turnout. That thing was huge!

We had a dispatcher that liked to cross trains over at each crossover for no apparent reason. It was so annoying! You would get up to track speed, then see the approach to the crossover flashing yellow, get a diverging clear at the cross over, and then boom the next approach signal to the next cross over would be flashing yellow again. **** it was annoying, and you would never meet any trains. At least it kept you awake at night. 

Here is Dirk's thread. 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/9/aft/121905/afv/topic/Default.aspx 



Craig


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Tons of Operable Brake. 

C'mon, Craig, everybody knows that the dispatchers have to excercise the switch points occassionally! 

Robert


----------



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

You should be able to make a couple of pattern parts from a clay that can be hardened, like sculpy, and then use those as a master to make an RTV silicone mould for casting the parts from pewter. The mould should last plenty long enough to cast enough parts for your use. If you save the masters, you can always make more moulds.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 23 Mar 2012 09:15 AM 
Tons of Operable Brake. 

C'mon, Craig, everybody knows that the dispatchers have to excercise the switch points occassionally! 

Robert 
I know it as Tons per Operative Brake, but same thing. Oh ya, the train crews called the dispatcher some mighty fine words some times.... "XXXX is playing with his train set tonight" The only other thing worse then that would be when he would forget to line up the crossovers, so every approach your getting a hard yellow, and then you creep up to the block (why is that MOW always installs signals behind bridges, around curves, behind hills?), you come to a complete stop, and then click seconds later you get a high ball... 

As long as you stayed moving it wasn't too bad, but that stop and start business got really old after about the 3 or 4th block... And when you knew you were the only train one the line too...

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Amber on 23 Mar 2012 09:54 AM 
You should be able to make a couple of pattern parts from a clay that can be hardened, like sculpy, and then use those as a master to make an RTV silicone mould for casting the parts from pewter. The mould should last plenty long enough to cast enough parts for your use. If you save the masters, you can always make more moulds. 
That's kind of my idea. I haven't really played around too much yet, but sculpy does seem to have the best 'workability'. 

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)




----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

The frog end of the turnout is almost finished. Only a couple of more tie plates to go, and I think I'm going to call it good. Not to sure if I want to add NBW detail on the wing rail as the only areas it is at, will be seen, and the flange of the wheel needs to go through... 








For instance the first and last tie plates for the wing rail have the end block detail and bolts, but it would be in the way of over deep flanges.


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm impressed. I've always been of the opinion that "track is a model, too!" And should be treated as such. I love N Scale, but I can't stand rail that's knee high to a grown man. HO is marginally better. Even for Fn3, code 250 is slightly oversize, 115 lb rail, D&RGW used mostly 90 lb or smaller. I think RGS used 30 lb rail in some areas. What's interesting is on the C&TS, all of the turnouts are either #8 1/2 or #10. I suppose since they were running standard gauge locomotives on the narrow gauge track. 

Robert


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

The sub I model used 90lb rail and then mostly 110-115lb rail, so that works out fairly close to .215. The 90lb rails is ~.180" I don't think I want to get that small as I would have to turn down all the oversized flanges... 
They also only used #9 turnouts and in one spot there was 2 #11 turnouts also. So one of these days depending on how long it takes to model that portion I'll be building a #11 too. 

When I finish I'll have to weather the rails and ties and then it will look complete. 

Craig


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Looking forward to it! What part of the country do you live in? 

Robert


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 24 Mar 2012 06:37 PM 
Looking forward to it! What part of the country do you live in? 

Robert 
Robert,
West Coastish. From the Seattle area, but living in Bozeman, Mt right now for grad school.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I need some opinions here, as I'm still undecided on what represents the prototype photo the best. 










Option 1. 









Option 2.









Or Option 3.










I haven't figured out a way to model the angle bracket piece, but this is at least a step in the right direction. 

Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey, I thought You were working on Home work... hehe 

My best news is the NEW 12K gen. arrived yesterday!! Lots of work ahead now!! 

Switch looks great BTW!!!! 

Now, since our model spikes are not the same oval shape as a real one, the center pic looks the best to ME!! IMHO!!!! Ya! 
Still trying, to come up with a way to model the shoe shape on the side however... 

Make a mold and cast small parts that glue in place. 1 part 

cut a 1/2 round plastic rod to length, angle the ends to fit and give under support with a rectangle of filler plastic block.. 2 parts here... 

Use a heavy body fluid, and just lay in a glue deposit that conforms to the shape in general.... probably not the best idea.. not too controllable 

I'm throwing stuff out, I find I never know when I will "trip over" some idea that has nothing to do with what I might be working on and come up with a solution to another, different problem!! 

Dirk 
DMS Ry. 

back to breakfast!! :~}


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I need some opinions here, as I'm still undecided on what represents the prototype photo the best. 
Didn't we talk about this a few weeks ago? The Tenmille parts seem to be an exact model of that bit. Would you like me to send you a few - I have more than a dozen ? 









_P.S. Do I see spikes that aren't perfectly aligned at 90 degrees to the rail ?







_


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 13 Apr 2012 10:22 AM 
I need some opinions here, as I'm still undecided on what represents the prototype photo the best. 
Didn't we talk about this a few weeks ago? The Tenmille parts seem to be an exact model of that bit. Would you like me to send you a few - I have more than a dozen ? 









_P.S. Do I see spikes that aren't perfectly aligned at 90 degrees to the rail ?







_

We did, I just forgot. Here's the problem I see with the tenmile part. It doesn't go the full length of the tie so I would have to try and either cut out the rail bracket, or try and splice a filler piece in as well. Yes you do see a spike or two off. Just walk down a yard track some day and you'll see lots of spikes like that or even pulling off the web of the rail. I was playing around last night with it and that's what I came up with so far.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 13 Apr 2012 10:04 AM 
Hey, I thought You were working on Home work...
Now, since our model spikes are not the same oval shape as a real one, the center pic looks the best to ME!! IMHO!!!! Ya! 
Still trying, to come up with a way to model the shoe shape on the side however... 

Make a mold and cast small parts that glue in place. 1 part 

cut a 1/2 round plastic rod to length, angle the ends to fit and give under support with a rectangle of filler plastic block.. 2 parts here... 


Homework? What's that? Actually I was taking a break last night, but yep the semester is coming to a close in 2 1/2 weeks so it's crunch time. Only a 10 page paper, and a small project left to do...







Research time this afternoon.








Half round rod sounds like a possibility. I might even have some in my scrap box. If not, I know I have a few sizes of round rod that can be easily made into half round.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I finally made some more progress with the turnout.



















The tie plates on the bottom still need to be trimmed up, but it looks like everything is holding together in gauge. After adding the .010" slider pieces (small 3"x8" pieces on top) I discovered that I needed to make a vertical bend in the point rails. Guess what? It's in the exact same place as the drawing shows...

Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Having gotten the points sliding right last night and trimmed up to their final lengths, I quickly came to the conclusion that before I can determine how much spread (and therefore build the tie bars that hold the points together) is between the points, I'm going to have to figure out the throw of the switch stand. 









Having yet to find anything that will work for me, I've relegated myself to building my own so I can control the height, width, and throw of the stand. I'm thinking something like this, as it might be easier. That said it would be easier to use a commercial product instead, but who said I was going the easy route?  

















I'm trying to figure out if I should attempt to mill this stand out of solid stock, or try and build up individual pieces? I'm just trying to make a master here, not expecting it to be useful or strong. I would like to cast the stands in a low temp metal or something stronger so they would be functional.
Any thoughts, ideas?

Craig


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By bnsfconductor on 04 May 2012 02:28 PM 
before I can determine how much spread (and therefore build the tie bars that hold the points together) is between the points, I'm going to have to figure out the throw of the switch stand. 

I think you're going about it backwards. If you're going to go to the trouble of making accurate track for 1:29, you might as well go Proto:29 and use accurate (or at least not toy train) standards. Make the switch stand fit the track, not the other way around. Define the gap (and thus the distance between the points) and them make or modify the switch stand to suit.

You've come this far, why stop short?


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By DKRickman on 04 May 2012 02:38 PM 
Posted By bnsfconductor on 04 May 2012 02:28 PM 
before I can determine how much spread (and therefore build the tie bars that hold the points together) is between the points, I'm going to have to figure out the throw of the switch stand. 

I think you're going about it backwards. If you're going to go to the trouble of making accurate track for 1:29, you might as well go Proto:29 and use accurate (or at least not toy train) standards. Make the switch stand fit the track, not the other way around. Define the gap (and thus the distance between the points) and them make or modify the switch stand to suit.

You've come this far, why stop short? 


I've been using pretty much as close to Proto:29 standards so far. The drawings show 4.5" gap between the stock rail and the points. What I have is very close to that as well. The reason I was thinking about making the stand first is, because the movement of the points is similar to a triangle. When solving for C in Asquared + Bsquared =C squared you need to have two known measurements. On most commercial stands there is some sort of adjustment screw to allow the points to fit the movement of the stand. It looks like a similar screw type adjustment in my photo as well. I figured it would be easier to determine the spread based of this formula in case during the manufacturing/construction process the two legs of the triangle get slightly off. 
If the throw of the points is .1548" - C then you have to have at least A or B to solve? So why not start with A & B and solve for C?


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Craig, 

I was going to also mention not to "Mix" your projects together here, 

Points and stand.. 

Stand throw can always be adjusted to match the points - longer or shorter. Just move the pivot hole in or out on the throw arm... 

Check your wheel clearance and roll thru - could be around 100 tho clearance - but not hard and fast rule here - why? ponts flex over their length, this was my problem on my points, too much flex, so I had to make it work and get a truck to roll thru clean and clear!!! 

Again, take your time on this aspect of the turnout build and get it right!!!!! 

Good luck, it's fun rolling a truck thru....!! over and over on your own hand made switch... :~} 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

A little spring loading of the throw rod helps also, both ways to add some pressure to either point, holding it tight to the rail..


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 04 May 2012 03:02 PM 
Craig, 

I was going to also mention not to "Mix" your projects together here, 

Points and stand.. 

Stand throw can always be adjusted to match the points - longer or shorter. Just move the pivot hole in or out on the throw arm... 

Check your wheel clearance and roll thru - could be around 100 tho clearance - but not hard and fast rule here - why? ponts flex over their length, this was my problem on my points, too much flex, so I had to make it work and get a truck to roll thru clean and clear!!! 

Again, take your time on this aspect of the turnout build and get it right!!!!! 

Good luck, it's fun rolling a truck thru....!! over and over on your own hand made switch... :~} 

Dirk 
DMS Ry. 

My clearance is around .150" or so. Prototype shows 4 3/4" gap which would be .163". I haven't noticed a problem with flex in the points at all. Maybe mine are short enough so they don't flex as much?
Mixing projects? What I've been doing that all along since the very beginning!  
Craig


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 04 May 2012 03:06 PM 
A little spring loading of the throw rod helps also, both ways to add some pressure to either point, holding it tight to the rail.. 
Or if you had the adjustment of the throw rod correct then you wouldn't need a spring in the throw rod!  I'm looking at this in terms of a math problem. The pivot point is 1 point of a larger triangle. Thus with 2 sides of the triangle know (the length of the pivot bar from the pivot point to the connection to the throw rod), it becomes a mathematical equation to solve for the missing solution. 
To me this would be a lot better then trying to guess exactly how were the pivot point should be and the length of the pivot bar...











Following my train of thought? How can you solve C (blue) without knowing A & B (green)? Now algebra isn't my strong suit, but isn't it a lot easier to solve for 1 missing factor instead of trying to solve for 2 missing factors (even though A & B will be the same length)


Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I under stand your thoughts - yes.. 

However your stand will turn 90 degrees in use. no more and no less .. Which is not accounted for in your drawing above... 

Using a little spring against the rail insures positive seating to both rails... and allows for minor adjustment in use also. 

meaning,.. I would consider the Stand throw to be longer than the Point throw.. 

It is still a math problem if you need it to be tho!! have'n fun yet!!? 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 04 May 2012 04:11 PM 
I under stand your thoughts - yes.. 

However your stand will turn 90 degrees in use. no more and no less .. Which is not accounted for in your drawing above... 

Using a little spring against the rail insures positive seating to both rails... and allows for minor adjustment in use also. 

meaning,.. I would consider the Stand throw to be longer than the Point throw.. 

It is still a math problem if you need it to be tho!! have'n fun yet!!? 

Dirk 
DMS Ry. 


It was a quick sketch, no intended to be 100% accurate! I was just trying to get a visual reference for those who need it.  If I could figure out a way to build in to the stand a screw adjustment that it would allow for minor adjustments, much like the tenmile throws. The tenmile stands aren't sprung and I've never had a problem keeping the points tight without using a spring in the throw bar...










Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

For an adjustable using the screw tip idea shown, you could make the Stand "arm" - adjustable, make it move in or out to change it's length, thus affecting the throw of the lever and rod to the points. 

follow that..? if the arm below the stand could be moved some, the effective point will also move thus making the needed throw shorter or longer to match the points. 

Dirk


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Look closely to this picture you can see an adjustable screw type thingy... 








The problem I see with actually using it to adjust the throw length, then it would only be affective at 1/2 turns and full turns... That 'might' be close enough depending on the thread diameter.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Your picture brings up my next point for us, the tie spacing, and the space between ties for the throw arm to fit inside and work ...you arm needs to fit inside your given tie spacing... 

A fine thread will help make adjustments easier - yes 1/2 or full turns only, to get the proper position.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 04 May 2012 05:10 PM 
Your picture brings up my next point for us, the tie spacing, and the space between ties for the throw arm to fit inside and work ...you arm needs to fit inside your given tie spacing... 

A fine thread will help make adjustments easier - yes 1/2 or full turns only, to get the proper position. 
The tie spacing is exactly what got me thinking in the first place... Head blocks are on 18" centers. Nothing currently is that small.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So like your using maybe a 3/8in tie, which gives about a 1/8 in arm for throw, eh!?? 

Figure a 1/8in pivot for 90 degrees and compare it to your point spacing and movement.. 

Where does this get you? 

Dirk


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 04 May 2012 08:26 PM 
So like your using maybe a 3/8in tie, which gives about a 1/8 in arm for throw, eh!?? 

Figure a 1/8in pivot for 90 degrees and compare it to your point spacing and movement.. 

Where does this get you? 

Dirk 
You want me to do math this late at night?







I'll look at it tomorrow and figure it all out to see what the throw will work out to be. Thanks for thinking about that!


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Quick calculation I just did. Check my math here... 
C= Throw distance of 4.75" or .163" 
A & B = .115" 

Ties on 18" centers leaves 10" of room between ties= .344" 
0.344- 0.115" = 0.229" of clearance to be of set back? 

Or is my brain playing tricks on my this late at night? Now I can go to sleep!  

Craig


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Craig

Don't know if the following will be of any help, it's old technology c. 1921 but what the heck.

















And I ran across this and thought you might find it of use.

LB Foster Rail Products Catalog c. 2008 (PDF 4.31MB)[/b]


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Craig, you may have been tired, but the calculator seems to work just fine.. 

I used a simple drawing of same, and came to about .125 in. throw for the arm pivot center - 2 - center.. 

Your .115" looks to be right! 

Dirk


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Latest photo dump...




























One point 90% finished, one more to go. I finally found some brass stock that should work for the tie bar/throw bar. So after I get the new point to this stage, its on to the throw bar. Hopefully I can use the 3 holes in the transit clips in a functional manner, slightly adjusting the width of the points. Theory and reality are sometimes different. 

Craig


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

You're insane. You know that, right? 

And I LOVE IT!!!


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By DKRickman on 16 May 2012 08:34 AM 
You're insane. You know that, right? 

And I LOVE IT!!! 
I'm glad someone was able to confirm my suspicions!







Looking at my points, and the ones I have from llagas creek, they don't seem that much different detail wise. When I get my drill press set back up, I have a funny feeling I'll be doing this whole process over again so that the NBW, are in exactly the right place, instead of eye balling. An X/Y table make things so much easier. That said I've done everything by hand so far, with the only power tool I've used is a dremel. My point being that someone with a limited tool budget could make nice looking turnouts as well








Hopefully later today or tomorrow I can get started on the throw bars. Have to get my chores done first before I can play trains.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Thank God for limited train budgets............ hehe 

I'm still having FUN, too! Money - what's that?

Naw - na'thunnn' wrong wit You there Craig!! school dun? Ditch the chores Man!!!!! get on with the trains!!! 

I want to see some more metal fillin's soon.... 

Your doing a great job, I don't care what they say... mmmm 


And, I would like to see a #11 switch this summer from you.. 


....Dirk


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Okay after only losing 1 nut and crushing 1 nut..







I've got the first tie bar throw mostly completed







A few styrene details still to be added but the mechanical aspect of it seems to be working just fine. The bolts and nuts are from scale hardware. They look great, and work well too. Now I only have 2 more to make. I have to assemble the whole point assembly off the turnout, and then after I've got all the holes drilled then I can go back and remove the tie bars, slip the points in place, and then rescrew the tie bars into place. 









The transit clips (the piece that goes from the point to the throw bar) is suppose to have 5 holes for adjustment, but I couldn't get more then 3 equally spaced with my hand tools.







So I have a feeling like I mentioned before that I'll be completely making a new master when I can get all my workshop tools set back up. If it's going to be a master for a mold it needs to be perfect.










These are the bolts I used. http://www.scalehardware.com/product_tech_info/threaded-hex-bolts-c-1/1-0-mm-threaded-hex-bolt-p-24


Craig


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Craig, 

Really nice stuff! 

These are the bolts I used. http://www.scalehardware.com/product_tech_info/threaded-hex-bolts-c-1/1-0-mm-threaded-hex-bolt-p-24 

I have some 1.2mm, 1mm and 0.8mm hex-head bolts which I got from an O-scale parts shop in NJ - Lee Models or something? I found taps and nut drivers at NWSL. They've been very useful for actually holding things together and looking scale-sized, like yours!


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Okay so it's been a while since I updated this topic. But progress has been made...

















I was going to say it is done, but then I realized that I needed to add 6 more joint bars to the rail. I think I will just use the llagas ones as they look better than anything that I can make. Then other than paint it should be mostly completed. The switch stand to make this thing actually function as a turnout might be next on my list of things to do, but I'm still stumped on how to build the thing.


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Spectacular work! Thanks for reaffirming my belief that track is a model, too. 

Why stumped on the switchstand? There are two types: Cast and fabricated. Considering the quality of your work so far, either one should be a breeze. 

AMS makes some pretty nice ones for their turnouts, you may even consider using one of theirs. They're cast metal, heavy, and look great. 

Robert.


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

If anyone is interested, I own this switchstand: 




























Its dated 1897! but it is the style im used to seeing on current "manual-throw" switches.. 
this is the only style I have ever seen here in the north-east..(in use during the 20th century anyway) 
Im not sure how old that "tall" switchstand (in the photos above) is, 
but it seems like an "older" style than mine...unless different parts of the US, and different railroads, used different styles of switch stands.. 
But if anyone wants any detailed photo and measurements of mine, let me know.. 
in the Mid-20th century, to today, it would have had low "direction" indicators, like this: 




























or going back further, (early to mid 20th century) lanterns: 










currently I have a "tall" mast/indicator/thing on mine: 










but I don't think the two pieces are necessarily contemporary.. 
the "short" style is what I am used to seeing..at least around here, 
but of course there is a lot of variation.. 

Scot


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

This is the stand I'm trying to make 









It has to be strong enough to handle the point movements, but small enough that it looks right. The problem I have with all of the commercial stands is they have way to wide of a head block spacing. My head blocks are on 18" centers, and the movement of the points is just enough that it should work. I've crunched the numbers once already and I would have just a little bit of clearance from the headblocks to the throw bar. 

The stand may end up being built of styrene and then cast in metal. Much like I'm planning on for the points. 

Craig


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

The Sunset Valley units are too wide? I just measured one at 34" side to side. That could be narrowed a little. If you could kitbash one of those it sure would be easier than scratch building.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Paul Burch on 18 Jul 2012 12:12 PM 
The Sunset Valley units are too wide? I just measured one at 34" side to side. That could be narrowed a little. If you could kitbash one of those it sure would be easier than scratch building.

Yep the Sunset Valley ones are too wide. I'm measuring ~28" from the end of one head block to another. And I think the throw arm of the Sunset Vally stand is too much as well. It might be possible to cut it down, but that seems like it would be just as much work as trying to scratch build something. I have two ideas on how to approach building the stand. One start with a solid block of styrene and carve/file everything out, or build up the pieces with strips. I think using the solid approach might be harder, but would result in a stronger stand. I have the engineer drawings for this stand and another type of stand which should help in the building process. I would try making it out of brass strips and soldering the pieces together but I don't have my soldering stuff with me.








Or another possibility is to look around at O or S scale stands.. But most of those are just for looks and not operational.








Or find someone with a machine shop and have them mill me out a stand of solid stock


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

My only problem with styrene would be strenght. I have several of the Sunset Valley switch stands on my layout and no matter how carefull I am around them,every so often one will get hit. They are tuff,usually just requires bending the mast straight.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Paul, 
If I built it out of styrene I wouldn't use it for much more than testing to make sure the parts all work together. Instead it would be a master for a metal casting, or alumlite casting. Styrene wouldn't hold up at all to regular abuse! 
BTW I've been meaning to ask, are you in Gig Harbor or outside of town? My wife and I have a house in Port Orchard. 

Craig


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Craig,
We are in Rosedale on the west side of freeway. Short drive from Port Orchard. You are welcome to come visit and run trains anytime. Just let me know.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Okay will do. We are in Bozeman, MT right now while I'm in grad school, but we might end up back on the other side of the pond. Going home in Aug, so maybe I can run away for a while and run trains.


----------



## Dennis Cherry (Feb 16, 2008)

This was posted back in 2010 on this forum. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/9/aft/118365/afv/topic/Default.aspx


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Just for your info BNSF the green item you circled is called a rigid rail brace also they make an ajustable rail brace which is more common on main line turnouts. Apparently you have been looking at yard turnouts and not main line turnouts. Later RJD


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 19 Jul 2012 07:14 PM 
Just for your info BNSF the green item you circled is called a rigid rail brace also they make an ajustable rail brace which is more common on main line turnouts. Apparently you have been looking at yard turnouts and not main line turnouts. Later RJD 
Thanks for the proper name. This turnout is on an old NP branch line so I would imagine it was build to non mainline standards..

Craig


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Craig: Let me clarify a bit further on the braces. The rigid braces where the first to ever be used on any RR. No matter main or yard. Over the years RRs keep improving the components of the turn outs. The adjustable rail brace became the new standard as now the stock rail could be adjusted to tighten it up as components wore where as the rigid brace had no adjustment. As the RR renew turnouts they will install the adjustable braces. Just a little extra info for ya. Keep up the good work on your turnout. Later RJD


----------

