# Steam Oil Source?



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Really dumb question, but it's been a while since I've been routinely burning my fingers that I've only noticed just now that my steam oil supply is frightfully low. The last time I bought some, Sulphur Springs was still in business if that's any indication. Where are folks going for it these days?

(And I REALLY wish I knew what I did with the gallon jug I had of it when I moved from Rochester...) 


Later,

K


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

K I got mine from wholesale trains. They sell the Arsito Steam oil. 
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200512324


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

The Kidman's have it too. I bought a nice size bottle from them at ECLSTS. 

http://www.reindeerpass.com/


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

This forum sponsor also sells steam oil. Royce has oil that I have been using for years now and am totally happy with it.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft also sells it.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

As does ngtmodels.com 

Larry


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 15 Aug 2011 12:14 AM 
Really dumb question, but it's been a while since I've been routinely burning my fingers that I've only noticed just now that my steam oil supply is frightfully low. The last time I bought some, Sulphur Springs was still in business if that's any indication. Where are folks going for it these days?

(And I REALLY wish I knew what I did with the gallon jug I had of it when I moved from Rochester...) 


Later,

K 


Sulphur Springs!!! That was last time I bought oil too. Better check the can.


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin , 

The new EBT " Mike" needs the best. Go here for oil. 

http://www.steamenginelube.com 

This is the website for " Green Velvet Steam Oil." We steamers at DGRS are running the 460 stuff for the last 2 years, and are very happy with it. Better value for the money than the Accucraft stuff. 

Charles M SA # 74


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks, guys. I've ordered the Green Velvet stuff, as that seems to have gotten the best reviews. Now, back to contemplating the modifications... 

Later, 

K


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin 

While ordering from GV look into the PB&J 220. its a great oil for lubing the loco. Holds the best under heat and steam. Been using GV for 3 years now and I will never go back to another.


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

a live steamer that is more experienced than I ever will be, uses only Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer for steam oil and lubricating moving parts on his engines. It can be purchased just about any place.

.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bill4373 on 16 Aug 2011 11:01 AM 

a live steamer that is more experienced than I ever will be, uses only Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer for steam oil and lubricating moving parts on his engines. It can be purchased just about any place.

.


I would bet that he is able to machine new parts to replace those that wear out because he is using a poor substitute for Steam Cylinder Oil. Any oil will work in some manner, even lard, candle wax, peanut butter, or spit. But that doesn't mean just anything is the best to use in any particular situation.

I can't make new cylinders, pistons, piston rods or valve parts, so I will have to buy replacement parts from someone with the wherewithall to make them, so I stick with real Steam Cylinder Oil for the steam oil and I use various other oils and greases for the other moving parts that are subject to wear. The longer between replacement costs the better.

Now, just to confuse you.... I don't normally change the oil in my cars! Had a Nissan Pulsar that I changed the oil in once every 7 years... that is twice in 19 years before I sold it for scrap at 115,000 miles... the engine was running fine, the FRAME of the car body was rusted away. I have a '96 Oldsmobile that I had did not change the oil in for 5 years when a gasket let go (no relation to the oil condition, it is a known design flaw in the engine block that makes this particular gasket die at about 65,000 to 70,000 miles and mine was at 75,000 when it went). I replaced the engine and put 75,000 on it with no oil changes when the same gasket went. This time I recognized the symptoms before the water in the oil destroyed the bearings and I replaced the gasket. I do not expect to get another 75,000 miles on this one as the body of the car is "weathering" something fierce now and will not last that long. Besides, mice got into it and made nests in the air-conditioning ducts that I am having trouble getting out and am not sure I want to anyway!


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

A bit of information on my using Green Velvet Steam Oil. The Denver Garden Railway Society layout is on the grounds of the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden. The Museum has D&RGW C-19 # 346 built in 1881 running at the Museum . They use Green Velvet Steam Oil too. They use the heavier grade oil , and purchase it in 55 gallon drums from the same source I buy my gallon jug from . If they trust Green Velvet Oil to keep 346 running , that is reason enough for me to use it too. They have been at this a lot longer than I have ! 

" Carl " the Engineer here recognised the aroma of Green Velvet when I was running and asked me where I got mine from . We had a good conversation about oils for locomotives big and small . 

Charles M SA # 74


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you ever heard of anyone putting "Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer for steam oil" in the larger scales??..... There's a reason for that.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles M on 16 Aug 2011 12:11 PM 
A bit of information on my using Green Velvet Steam Oil. The Denver Garden Railway Society layout is on the grounds of the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden. The Museum has D&RGW C-19 # 346 built in 1881 running at the Museum . They use Green Velvet Steam Oil too. They use the heavier grade oil , and purchase it in 55 gallon drums from the same source I buy my gallon jug from . If they trust Green Velvet Oil to keep 346 running , that is reason enough for me to use it too. They have been at this a lot longer than I have ! 

" Carl " the Engineer here recognised the aroma of Green Velvet when I was running and asked me where I got mine from . We had a good conversation about oils for locomotives big and small . 

Charles M SA # 74 
Amen! You get what you pay for.







I have NEVER understood some live steam hobbyist's having engines worth many thousands of dollars and trying to "save" a few bucks on steam oil. I have seen it many times!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

The only thing that concerns me running steam oil designed for larger locos in our smaller stuff is our "superheaters." Larger steam locos don't have the steam lines glowing cherry red, especially after the oil has already been injected into the line. Several years back, Rob Lenicheck and I did an experiment. We had three different steam oils - including one used in 1:1 steam locomotives - and we poured a small amount of each into a tablespoon and heated it from the underside with a torch. Tow of the oils - including the 1:1 oil - carbonized and left gunk on the spoon. The third didn't (I believe it was Accucraft's steam oil). That carbonized gunk is what clogs steam lines over time. 

Not sure what the temperature rating is for Green Velvet. I use it in my ride-on which has no "superheater." 

Anyway, just an FYI.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Green Velvet spec:

Sapon-A-Max 320 (ISO460) is the lightest of the true cylinder oils. It is intended for steam pressures under 160 psi, saturated steam conditions and smaller cylinders (typically under 8" bores). Live Steamers this is your oil! It has plenty of soft, smooth lard oil compounding and tough glazing additive to lubricate wet cylinders and prevent rust after shutting down.


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## Reg Stocking (Sep 29, 2010)

As noted, several possibilities for lubrication exist. In the early days of American railroading firemen were called tallowpots. A pot of tallow was kept liquid with heat from the firebox, and every so often the fireman would go from the cab onto the footboards and apply tallow to the places requiring lubrication. Somehow I suspect that this quaint custom would be outlawed today.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, Some manufactures ( Aster) don't run the steam oil through the super heater. I can think of no benefit to doing so, But I know that kind of heat will break down conventional ( petroleum based) oils.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Reg, Tallow is also the ingredient in steam oil that allows it to be carried by the steam and coat the internal surfaces. exposed to the steam.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 16 Aug 2011 12:58 PM 
Dwight, Some manufactures ( Aster) don't run the steam oil through the super heater. I can think of no benefit to doing so, But I know that kind of heat will break down conventional ( petroleum based) oils. 

The only reason the steam oil is in the line to the front is because of the expedience of putting the oil reservoir in the cab where there is room. The only reason there is anything resembling a superheater is because of the expedience of routing the steam line through the burner flue to get from the throttle in the cab to the front of the loco.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Whatever one feels about the merits or drawbacks of a "superheater" (I prefer calling it a steam drier), or the reasons for their existance on some models, the fact remains that if you run, or are planning on running, anything that has one, temperature rating is something to consider when selecting a steam oil.


Aster Snobs need take no notice.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 16 Aug 2011 11:50 AM 
Posted By Bill4373 on 16 Aug 2011 11:01 AM 

a live steamer that is more experienced than I ever will be, uses only Lucas Heavy Duty Oil Stabilizer for steam oil and lubricating moving parts on his engines. It can be purchased just about any place.

.


I would bet that he is able to machine new parts to replace those that wear out because he is using a poor substitute for Steam Cylinder Oil. Any oil will work in some manner, even lard, candle wax, peanut butter, or spit. But that doesn't mean just anything is the best to use in any particular situation.




I've heard the creamy-style peanut butter works best. The chunky stuff tends to clog up the tubes. Choosy steamers choose Jif.


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## Reg Stocking (Sep 29, 2010)

Has anyone tried suet or lard in a displacement lubricator? In the interest of science....


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

A word to the wise. Don't drink the leftovers that come out of the lubricator.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"Has anyone tried suet or lard in a displacement lubricator?" 

Yeah, about 170 years ago. Animal fat was all they had back then. I seem to remember reading that mostly sheep fat was used, but I am not sure of my source anymore. Somebody already mentioned above how the term "tallow pot" got its name - and how that got passed to the jargon name for the fireman. 

When I worked for the publications department of Mack Trucks in the mid-1970s, the oil spec for the differential unit's gear oil still required a certain percentage of "edible goose tallow."









Yours, 
David Meashey


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I use Green Velvet as well! 
Great company to order from. They're always very friendly and helpful on the phone. 

I don't know of anyone who has ever worn out a part on their engine as a result of poor steam lubricant. I think you are more likely to have problems with cylinder gaskets and piston O-rings. However, I think the chemistry of the GV tends to "condition" these items. 
I do notice that my engine tends to lose some power after 20-25 minutes of running time, but seems to recover after re-fill of the lubricator.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

a freind of mine makes "oarsmans" tallow for lubrication of oarlocks and oar leathers for serious rowers of classic row boats. I have a little tin of the stuff- looks like chapstick It is pure white and quite firm at room temperature. He renders it himself from Beef suet I think. I am not sure I have the guts to push some into my lubricator though.


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