# Weathering a Live Steam Engine



## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

So here I have my nice new Accucraft Mogul that has its perfect Museum Quality Finish and although it looks nice on a shelf, it looks pretty out of place running on the track. I would like to do some weathering like I have seen done by Jack Thompson (aka Big65Dude)my only fear is that with the high heat of the engine, any paint may just flake off. Now before you post any responses, please note that my resources are very limited as I have a very demanding household (a wife and 4 kids) so if your idea would envolve spending lots of money on fancy equipment then the process most likely wont work for me. I apologize if this question has already been asked, but I have searched the forums and archive and havent seen anything about the particular weathering techniques for live steam engines. Thanks in advance for your help. You guys always have great ideas!  

JT


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## Havoc (Jan 2, 2008)

Run more, clean less...


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

I completely agree, however, I also want to get rid of the DARK BLACK and get it to more of a sun bleached faded black color.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I use a scotchbrite pad (the maroon one) cut into 2" squares to dull the Accucraft and Roundhouse paint before repainting. It is tedious getting into tight places, which I don't worry about for refinishing. If you have patience, you should be able to dull the finish nicely. Try something like the cab roof to see how it goes. 



Larry


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## GNSteamer (Jan 16, 2008)

First you must realize that you will need an airbrush in order for you to achieve the desired effects. 

Begin by first degreasing your locomotive with hot water and a solution like Simple Green. Alllow things to dry thorughly. Go to your local hobby store and purchase some Floquil paints, Buy colors like Engine Black (Matte Black) , Grimy Black (Matte Dark Gray almost black) , Rust (Matte Orangy Brown), and Grime (Matte Beige). With these few colors you can mix and simulate just about any type of weathering condition out there. 

Practice on something like an old model car or something that you don't care too much about. 

What you want to do is to layer on your weathering with thin paint washes. Like each successive rainstorm or season 
a layer of soot, dirt, grease, and grime builds up. Layering also allows you to control the level of filth on the piece, it's personal preference to how little or how much. 

Begin by spraying on a light mist of Engine Black, thinned 2 part thinner 1 part paint over the areas you want to weather if it's the entire locomotive. Spray lightly just to knock the gloss down. This will provide the base coat for each successive layer. Use vintage photographs to reference where water scale and stains and drips. Details like chains and rusted fittings can be sprayed with a mixture of rust and grimy black, there's no right way as it's your interpretation. 

Thin washes sprayed of Grime, knocks down or provides a faded appearance to anything that is new, bright or newly painted. You'll find that you once you have weathered every thing you can always go back and reweather or increase the amount of layers of weathering.


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

GNSteamer, will I have any problems with the floquil paints being effected by the heat of the engine? Today I ordered a Badger 100G airbrush because I have some rolling stock that I want to weather. I know that the airbrushing will be fine on these. I just worry about taking all of the time and effort weathering the engine just to have the finish come off as soon as I fire up the engine. I am really looking forward to weathering the engine, I just want to be sure that I do it right. I have seen on the forums some guys talking about "baking the finish". I am not sure what exactly this does and how to do it with what I have available to me. Can anyone give more detail? Keep the comments coming! This is great! 

JT


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

JT, I would not advise you to use Floquil paints on your live steamer. Another steamer used those paints on his K-27 and when he steamed it up at Diamondhead, the heat caused the paints to change color and left his engine a sickening green tint. Original Scalecoat paints (not Scalecoat II) are designed to be baked on and will probably be a better choice. 

Good luck, 

Ross Schlabach


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

Thanks Ross, I have looked at the Scalecoat paints, and they look like just the right thing. Thanks for the tip! 

JT


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Like this? 









Or how about this? 



























Gee, I did this engine about 5 years ago and it still looks like it did when I took these photos. Using Badger model flex acrylic and a acrylic clearcoat to set them in and there have been no ill effects because of oil or any other item. The key is to clean and clean the surface til it is is better than new. Any oil trapped underneath the paint and it will wipe off without a second thought. 

Cleaning is just like before, a micro-fibre towel and some elbow grease to lift off the oil residue.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Always enjoy a weathered engine much more than the shiny out of the box. Can't wait until Ryan does our AC-11


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## Zonk (Feb 20, 2008)

JT, 
save yourself the hassle of using an airbrush unless its solely for minute detail. It seems to me that you want to knock down the shine on the entire boiler, my advice for you is to take the time, mask off everything around the boiler and spray it with Rust-Oleum's Specialty High Heat. I've used it on all my engines it looks outstanding. It looks better on even the plastic engines than any other black or engine black or coal black, you name it, it looks better. Not only did i completely redo an entire boiler on my accucraft live steam engine, i use the paint to weather the rest of my engines and rolling stock. Ill spray it as overspray to simulate soot on the boiler jacket and on the cab roof, ill also completely spray down the running gear. It gives the engines that "worn" and "used" look which is what i like. The paint is not going to flake off, its good up to 1200 degrees. I've used the BBQ Black and the High Temp Green. Both have come out great and have held out great. 
Here is an example of the green with a little overspray of black on the smokebox and boiler 
 
Matt


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

THERE IS A PRODUCT AVASILABLE CALLED "RUST ALL" IT IS A FOUR PART POWDER AND LIQUID PROCESS THAT WORKS FINE. I USED IT ON MY ACCUCRAFT SHAY AND I THINK IT LOOKS PRETTY GOOD.


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

The question is whether you want a well used look or a well cared for newer loco. 

On my Mogul I used some of the Branagean (SP) weathering powder to add some grime look and then run the loco a bunch 
The combination of steam oil keeps the shine off


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Speaking as a professional model builder, there is no substitute for a skilled weathering job to give the correct scale look. Sure our steamers produce their own grime but our engines are still scale models and the only way to give the impression of the full size locomotive is by applying weathering artificially. That said, I have weathered at least five live steam locomotives. I use primarily Floquil paints. I have no explanation for why the other guys paints changed color. I have never experienced that effect with Floquil. I have always found them to be the highest quality, most stable, and lowest sheen scale paints around. In my experience the Floquil paints can withstand all the punishment that live steamers can put out, including high temps. 

Here is my Mich Cal 2-banger Shay sporting a weathering job that was about four years old at the time the picture was taken: 









Just make sure to clean your engine within an inch of it's life before painting. No grease or oil can be on any surface you are painting. Your prep time should far exceed your time spent painting. If possible a light scuff to the surface with a fine grit scotch brite pad is a good idea-- I think someone else suggested that too. 

Good luck.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I am probably going to go down in flames for this, but I will still post this here.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif... 

I have been told by more than one person, from those that (comercially) model steam to those that operated it in the 1:1 world that most steam locos got wiped down and oiled/polished regularly, until their later days. 

But why the weathered steam we see in models? Many photos were taken in their "last days" by fans, hence the amount of over weathered steam locos that are modeled based on photos of equipment in such a state. 

Also, a lot were sitting, so you end up with a nearly uniform "chalky flat" looking loco with very little oil or grease shine on fittings due to sitting with no operation. 

I was told to look at a loco owned and operated by a museum for guidance on how to model a loco that was in regular service. There will be grime and dirt, but not uniform wash of it, and some shiny bits too. 

Looking for the asbestos blanket now.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif..


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Garrett, 

Museum engines are always over-glossed and kept way to spotless. The real things to look at are locomotives doing long cross-state railfan trips, like the 3751 through the desert on it's way to the grand canyon. 
Engines always collected a gathering of calcium streaks (hard water), dirt/dust, and oil stains/soot from the fire. 

Here's a link: 
Click here 
Click here


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Garrett 
Would rather model the "road warrior" over the museum piece any day. Most of the time a revenue loco was in the yard, out in the elements and probably not wiped down unless it was in for maintenance. 
Museum engine do not represent the daily work horse of freight which had to keep a schedule nor does it represent the express that did not have time to set still to be cleaned. A museum engine goes out once in a while on excursion. 
Think of it this way, look at the fleet of trucks on the road running daily. I doubt that they are clean or get clean daily when doing a haul across many states or a long interstate run. 
That said, all of us are free to choose the era and characteristic of a given engine according to its service.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

A few options come to mind. First is using weathering powders followed by a coat of matte finish to seal them in. I've actually used powdered tempra paint with a good degree of success to get that slightly faded look you're thinking of. I mix a bit of white into black so when it is sealed, it's just a darkish grey. 










Another option would be do use a wash of acrylic paints as I describe in the current (June '08) issue of Garden Railways. This lets the dull greyish-black paint settle as needed, but still lets the slight gloss of the boiler (or whatever surface) show through--something that you can't get with a matte overspray. 










Later, 

K


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rbednarik on 06/06/2008 11:55 AM
Garrett, 
Museum engines are always over-glossed and kept way to spotless. The real things to look at are locomotives doing long cross-state railfan trips, like the 3751 through the desert on it's way to the grand canyon. 
Engines always collected a gathering of calcium streaks (hard water), dirt/dust, and oil stains/soot from the fire. 
Here's a link: 
Click here 
Click here







Those pix show exatctly what I am talking about. Sorry, I should have been clearer on "museum" locos, not those on display, but used in "preservation service". 

Note that there is some shine, some dust and some "watermarks" as you say. Not uniformly dusty.


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Garrett, you are correct-- and I think that it is easy to over weather something. There are many times when I have to tell myself to "step away from the airbrush". I also have a rule; there is no amount of work that I can invest in a project that will make my use it, if it looks like crap. In other words, I don't care how much time I have invested in a paint job, if it looks bad I always repaint it. FYI, for me, the extreme weathered look is appropriate because I am modeling a logging company in the mid-late 50's, right at the twilight of steam. I use many of the photos of West Side lumber as reference because West Side was in operation until 1959. There are actually many color photographs of West Side equipment in operation in the late 50's. 

Regards,


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## Havoc (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, in Europe engines were kept rather spotless. Crws were assigned "their" engine and responsible for keeping it in order. Even freight engines look clean on duty. They were far cleaner and nicer than what is running around now.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Early American RRs, the Locomotive actually BELONGED to the "Engineer" or at least was designed and built by said Engineer... that is why he was called the Engineer. Thus they tended to keep the loco in tip-top shape and spent lots of time wiping it down and polishing the brass... a matter of pride. 

As time went on "Engineers" (by title only, really "drivers) were assigned locomotives, and took pride in their charge. Later the job of "Engine Wiper" was invented and the job went to that roundhouse employee as the company saw the locomotive as a visible representative of the railroad. 

Then around the 1930's, the jobs of "Engine Wiper" were eliminated as too expensive for the return on investment in the job. Locomotives still received an automated washing IF it was in Passenger service and thus visible to the public more than a yard goat or switch engine. But the time between washings varied by the road and cash to pay for the employees to do it. 

Now-a-days, Steam locos are again a focal point of the owner and is usually kept neat and clean, but on the real railroads a loco only gets washed when it is in the shops for either scheduled maintenance or repair... except maybe some passenger locos that might get washed in a washrack at a terminal between runs as time/schedule allows.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Ross said - "I would not advise you to use Floquil paints on your live steamer. Another steamer used those paints on his K-27 and when he steamed it up at Diamondhead, the heat caused the paints to change color and left his engine a sickening green tint." 

I believe what actually happened was that the Dullcoat overfinish was the culprit in turning green. I have used Floquil on many engines with no change in color over years of use. I regularly paint the smokebox, the hottest painted part on many locomotives, with Graphite and have never had any discoloration. As you know Dullcoat is not a lacquer base like Floquil because it needs a different thinner.


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

I've used a "cowards" type of weathering on one of my engines, since I don't have much skill or practice yet. 

I just used some black grease and a stiff brush, smearing the wheels, framework and any bright colored parts, looking at a photo of a prototype engine in regular use. It's great fun, and causes no anxiety, since it can all be washed away. Only drawback is, you have to take a little care not exposing the engine to excessive dust, as it should stick... - however, that has actually not been a problem so far! ;-D 

The prototype engine color photo is from the last days of regular steam operation in Germany (1970's) - the engines are definately not spotless :-D But engine crews tell me, it depended on the workgroup around each engine. Most of the engineers, firemen and servicemen in Germany, were proud to operate steam locomotives to the very end, so motivation doesn't seem to have been the issue! 

However, for my early Preussian engine(s), I've chosen a clean look, with shiny brass parts. In the early 1900's, labour was still very cheap / poorly payed. Also, these engines were high-tech showpieces of that time. Each German kingdom developed their own engines... much like the USA and Russia used to develop separate space programs :-D 

Thus, I find it most likely, that engines in the early 1900's were kept "spotless"!


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## F7 (Jan 29, 2008)

Dear All, 
I have weathered my Aster SNCF 140 C with ZEBO./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif" border=0>" border=0> 
ZEBO or wood stove blacking is the stuff for the total knocking back of the toy like finish on Aster body work. It works a treat on the silver stainless steel wheels as well. 
Dry brush it on very carfully and if you think you have overdone it? Wipe it off. 

http://www.ukclassifieds.co.uk/stovax_black_grate_polish_zebo_zip_zebrite_replacement-o32321.html 

Here is snap I took and submitted to the July/August photo competition. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Features/PhotoContest/tabid/78/ViewEntry/158/Default.aspx


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