# Rolling Stock for Aster Berk



## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Been thinking about getting some rolling stock for my Aster Berkshire, they dont have to be perfect, I just want her to look real nice pulling something!

A lot of people have been saying just to get those nice Aristo 2 bay coal hoppers but the Nickel Plate ones have been out of stock for a while. Then theres the missing caboose (which I dont have any issue repainting another caboose) 

Would like to see the communities thoughts on this (even if MTH hoppers will do) - its just hard to find good rolling stock for this engine!

Maybe if there was a big enough order, Aristo will do another run, just throwing ideas out.

Andrew


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

right idea, wrong manufacturer. 1:29 scale rolling stock is 34% larger than 1:32 scale which,like the Aster Berkshire, is the correct scale for #1 gauge track. i sure would like to see MTH or Accucraft produce some 1:32 scale hopper sets or frankly any non- fantasy freight cars in 1:32 scale. i'm not sure why the need isn't perceived since most 3/8" scale freight car production runs sell out rather quickly.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Andrew, any of the Accucraft 1/32 rolling stock is proper to pull with the Berk -- especially the Aar 40' boxcars. If you want hoppers, there is a project underway at Accucraft to make some C&O hoppers that I'm sure will be offered undecorated and perfect for the NKP -- which of course was owned by the same guys: the Sweringen (sp?) brothers. Can't give you a timetable for those yet. But you surely don't want any 1/29 cars cause they are just too big. 

Ross Schlabach


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

here are a couple 50-ton offset hoppers i wouldn't mind seeing in 6-packs...


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi guys, 

I made up a bunch of those hoppers when the Berk came out. I used MDC shells---painted them, adorned them with NKP decals, replaced the couplers with 1/32 Kadees, replaced the trucks with 1/32 Bettendorf, replaced with 1/32 metal wheels and added coal loads.....I still have some shells--contact me if interested. If you want me to build them, it's about $75 a car to make (not sure if my coal load source is still around tho). I could make maybe a dozen--so anyone interested should contact me. Otherwise, have a go at building one. 

Sam


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Sam

I would like some for Western Maryland Shay!


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

MTH is bringing out a new hopper this spring, saw that someplace.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Jerry, when MTH discontinued their 1/32nd scale passenger cars, it was my understanding that they were discontinuing all 1/32 scale models in favor of 1/29. Is my information correct? Just checking, cause we're advising Andrew against buying 1/29 scale cars because of the size difference. 

Ross Schlabach


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

The reason I was talking about the Aristocraft hopper, is because they actually do look good with the berk (there not that big) - then again, I know they are the wrong scale. 

I have no issue building cars, I just want to get ahold of a lot of them eventually, need something to do this engine justice! 

Would love to have something like this (and what cars are they using, looks like the aristos, ,maybe something else - hard to tell, looks great though):


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By afinegan on 07 Feb 2013 11:58 AM 
The reason I was talking about the Aristocraft hopper, is because they actually do look good with the berk (there not that big) ...
yikes... that's the same logic that brought about 1:29 in the first place.

hoppers, specifically ore hoppers are supposed to be small because they carry heavy loads.
regardless of the length, 1:29 scale hoppers will still be over a scale foot too wide.


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

Who's the owner of the Blonde Chic ? She looks 1/29th ish to me... sweet......









J.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Speeding by as they were at probably Warp 3, I didn't recognize them. But since it was on his RR, call Pete Comley and see if he remembers. But that was a nice long train -- on what looked like a very flat layout. 


Ross Schlabach


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Andrew--stick to the correct scale if possible--it isn't that hard to find these hoppers---with a bit of patience and some work on your part--you'll have all that you need.....maybe next year I'll make some up for DH.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's the new MTH hopper, maybe not what you are looking for though! Due in June, I think. Might have to join the MTH club?

MTH Car


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By afinegan on 07 Feb 2013 11:58 AM 
The reason I was talking about the Aristocraft hopper, is because they actually do look good with the berk (there not that big) - then again, I know they are the wrong scale. 

I have no issue building cars, I just want to get ahold of a lot of them eventually, need something to do this engine justice! 

Would love to have something like this (and what cars are they using, looks like the aristos, ,maybe something else - hard to tell, looks great though): 


Seems to me the first cars after the engine are 1:32 scale, but the cars get bigger, farther back in the train, many are probably 1:29 (a couple might be 1:24), then they get a wee bit smaller, probably back to 1:29, the last few cars before the caboose.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 07 Feb 2013 02:12 PM 
Here's the new MTH hopper, maybe not what you are looking for though! Due in June, I think. Might have to join the MTH club?

MTH Car 

Jerry

Love the art work and advertisement but that hopper would not been in service during the era of the Berkshire (but it would be cool to have a batch of M &M's dispensed from the bottom!).


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

I agree with Charles that this car was not around during the steam era at NKP. Also, this car was announced in MTH's 2010 catalog, shipped long ago and is most likely abandoned as was the rest of MTH's 1/32nd scale offerings before the 2012 Diamondhead shindig. I called MTH from there to order more coaches and was told all 1/32nd scale models had been discontinued. There may be some stuff still floating around, but not much -- not even on eBay! If you see it and want it, grab it quick. 

Ross Schlabach


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Peco has the molds for MDC, they have 1/32 hoppers.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

It's PIKO that is reproducung the MDC 2 bay coal hoppers.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Current PIKO Hopper offerings are: 

PRR in Tuscan rib side 
PPR in Brunswick Green rib side 
NYC in Tuscan off set 

There is a Santa Fe in tuscan and a NYC in Grey that came in sets only. Both offset side 

I've purchased both on ebay. 

Mainline America also made some Monon Road 2 bay hoppers. http://midwestcompanies.us/products/mainlineamerica.html


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

MDC / Roundhouse made a Nickle Plate Road hopper but these are seldom seen on ebay for sell. 

The following link shows the Nickle Plate Road hopper I have in my collection. 

http://www.carsntrains.com/MDC 2 Bay Hopper Page.htm


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

Andrew, 

The Nickel Plate was generally an East/West bridge route and is considered by some to be part of the alphabet route. The NKP was best known for its high speed perishables traffic from St. Louis and Chicago. It was more common to see a Berkshire leading a high speed reefer block (60 to 80 cars at 70 mph) with some LCL boxcars rather than a long slow coal drag. The majority of the coal drags were on the Wheeling and Lake Erie subsidiary and pulled by W&LE engines. 

Accucraft has a set of six NKP boxcars (AAR 1937 design) in 1:32 scale. There are also a set of six NYC Merchants Despatch reefers and NYC boxcars from Accucraft in 1:32 scale that would be appropriate on a NKP freight. ATSF and Pacific Fruit Express reefers are also available from Accucraft in 1:32 scale that would be apropo a NKP freight drag. PIKO has both a mint green NYC box car and a pacemaker (red and gray) box car in 1:32 scale that are acceptable. If you hunt on e-bay there are some MTH cars that are also acceptable including I believe at least one NKP Box car. 

You could probably mix 1:32 amd 1:29 cars and not have the 1:29 cars overwhelm the 1:32 scale cars as a 5-10% increase in size is difficult to discern unless you are comparing the cars side by side up close. 

Respectfully, 

NYC Buff


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Bottom of gregs page posting on those aristo hoppers:
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/rol...set-hopper


Just showing where I got my logic from (ones MDC supposely 1/32 and the other is the aristocraft ones)



















Wholesale trains has these as "available" dont know what that means, I wonder what scale they are (would have to relabel them)
Piko Hoppers a little less than $35 a pop

Would love accucraft to come out with 1/32 versions of them..... but $100 per car will hurt a bit...

Just throwing all the options out there, thats all


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NYC Buff on 07 Feb 2013 08:09 PM 
Andrew, 

The Nickel Plate was generally an East/West bridge route and is considered by some to be part of the alphabet route. The NKP was best known for its high speed perishables traffic from St. Louis and Chicago. It was more common to see a Berkshire leading a high speed reefer block (60 to 80 cars at 70 mph) with some LCL boxcars rather than a long slow coal drag. The majority of the coal drags were on the Wheeling and Lake Erie subsidiary and pulled by W&LE engines. 

Accucraft has a set of six NKP boxcars (AAR 1937 design) in 1:32 scale. There are also a set of six NYC Merchants Despatch reefers and NYC boxcars from Accucraft in 1:32 scale that would be appropriate on a NKP freight. ATSF and Pacific Fruit Express reefers are also available from Accucraft in 1:32 scale that would be apropo a NKP freight drag. PIKO has both a mint green NYC box car and a pacemaker (red and gray) box car in 1:32 scale that are acceptable. If you hunt on e-bay there are some MTH cars that are also acceptable including I believe at least one NKP Box car. 

You could probably mix 1:32 amd 1:29 cars and not have the 1:29 cars overwhelm the 1:32 scale cars as a 5-10% increase in size is difficult to discern unless you are comparing the cars side by side up close. 

Respectfully, 

NYC Buff I have looked at some old berkshire photos from the past and I see that your right, maybe Ill make up a mixed train, would be easier to get ahold of

Thanks


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

In case you want to try some of the Piko (MDC) cars Andrew, there are several on eBay right now at differing prices. They would need repainting and decals for NKP, but they are available. Looking at the Aristo car photos posted, the heights do look close but the trucks are a bit bulky and the wheel tires are huge compared to the MDC. But, when all else fails, keep in mind two rules: 

1) It's my railroad! 

2) When the owner is wrong, see Rule 1! 

Ross Schlabach


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By NYC Buff on 07 Feb 2013 08:09 PM 

You could probably mix 1:32 amd 1:29 cars and not have the 1:29 cars overwhelm the 1:32 scale cars as a 5-10% increase in size is difficult to discern unless you are comparing the cars side by side up close. 
=============
lets get the numbers straight.
based on 45mm track representing US standard gauge.

linear error:

1:29 scale is 9.07% under gauged
1:32 scale is 0.34% over gauged.

volume error:

1:29 scale is 32.99% oversize.
1:32 scale is 1.017% undersize.

i find it pretty sad that a scale that is so close in accuracy (1:32) is so poorly supported by manufacturers.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

If you are a manufacturer you want to make a product which appeals to the largest audience. Unfortunately that is not 1/32 scale. If you look at the logic, LGB was here in a big way first, European narrow gauge making the track gauge 1 meter. Aristocraft, USA Trains came later and wanted to appeal to the largest crowd, 1/29 was close enough for people who ran 1/22.5 and people who ran 1/32 plus in those days 1/24 was considered North American narrow gauge so it all fit. Now as one of the posters on this site says, “Is it "REAL" or just 1:29 th”. Most Sparkies, the majority of customers in this hobby, consider 1/29 correct and they are the majority, so that’s who the manufacturer caters to. Accucraft is now making 1/29 scale live steam and they are selling very well, after all, rolling stock is easy to get for them.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aopagary on 08 Feb 2013 08:50 AM 
Posted By NYC Buff on 07 Feb 2013 08:09 PM 

You could probably mix 1:32 amd 1:29 cars and not have the 1:29 cars overwhelm the 1:32 scale cars as a 5-10% increase in size is difficult to discern unless you are comparing the cars side by side up close. 
=============
lets get the numbers straight.
based on 45mm track representing US standard gauge.

linear error:

1:29 scale is 9.07% under gauged
1:32 scale is 0.34% over gauged.

volume error:

1:29 scale is 32.99% oversize.
1:32 scale is 1.017% undersize.

i find it pretty sad that a scale that is so close in accuracy (1:32) is so poorly supported by manufacturers.
Gary
I do not think one can blame the manufacturers for lack of support....they respond to the customer as to what will sell. Look at narrow gauge and their shift. Follow the money! With that said maybe 1:32 could offer viable products for a entry level or modest priced smaller engine (we will see with the SP offering of the SG Mogul). Yes I know it is SP and limited to a particular road name but it is small and priced to encourage 1:32 ownership.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Yes, some interesting and oft-discussed topics....Of course, manufacturers are in business to maximize profit and focus on the demand pockets. One point that is well taken as it relates to this post is the lack of rolling stock in 1/32. Some demand pockets are out there that have not been exploited by manufacturers is making affordable rolling stock. David Leech, I think should have shown the way, with his smooth side cars. I would guess that if David could produce these cars and sell them quite well at his price point, that one of our manufacturers could fill nicely the void that David left. Also, instead of making brass pullman cars by J&M,etc--how about, ala David's lead--AL pullman cars with little to no inside detail. Perhaps they are already looking into to doing that...I don't know but there seems like there is less risk there than in the selection of some of the engines Accucraft is building..... Sam


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By boilingwater on 08 Feb 2013 12:49 PM 
Yes, some interesting and oft-discussed topics....Of course, manufacturers are in business to maximize profit and focus on the demand pockets. One point that is well taken as it relates to this post is the lack of rolling stock in 1/32. Some demand pockets are out there that have not been exploited by manufacturers is making affordable rolling stock. David Leech, I think should have shown the way, with his smooth side cars. I would guess that if David could produce these cars and sell them quite well at his price point, that one of our manufacturers could fill nicely the void that David left. Also, instead of making brass pullman cars by J&M,etc--how about, ala David's lead--AL pullman cars with little to no inside detail. Perhaps they are already looking into to doing that...I don't know but there seems like there is less risk there than in the selection of some of the engines Accucraft is building..... Sam 
Sam

Yes, we visited Accucraft and saw the plans. They are indicating the plans in development:

Smooth Side Passenger Cars, 1:32 Scale


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

i would have no problem with 1:29 if the wheels were gauged at the proper 1.95" (50mm).
or if you really like large models, why not go with F scale (15mm to the foot on 2.75" (70mm) gauge track).

1:29 will always look like awkwardly balanced toys to me and probably to any scale modeler. 
...and for toys, i'd rather stick to prewar Wide Gauge.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Charles, 

Thanks for the info...I take back some of the nasty things I've said about Accucraft...... Sam All kidding aside, hopefully more manufacturers see opportunities in 1/32 scale rolling stock! Perhaps then the 1/29 guys can go there way and run what they want and we can do the same. We can laugh at how big we think they're stuff is and they can laugh at how smallish ours seems...as long as we're having fun.....Sam


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I have over 50 MDC size coal hoppers and two Aristo Craft 2 bay hoppers. There is for sure a size difference. But, there were several manufacturers of coal hoppers and they all were not built exactly the same size. I stood a MDC hopper upside down on top of an Aristo Craft 2 bay hopper.

The Aristo hopper body is 1 3/8 inch longer than the MDC hopper body.

If my math is correct, that is 39.87 inches in 29th scale and 44 inches in 32nd scale.

The Aristo Craft hopper body is 7/32 of an inch wider in the middle of the car body compared to the MDC hopper. 

That is 6.34 inches in 29th scale and 7 inches in 32nd scale.

Also, the ribbed MDC car body is the same width as the MDC offset body.

So, to me, if you have a string of Aristo Craft 2 bay hoppers behind the Berk, I don't think anyone can honestly say they don't look right running around the layout.

Stick some MDC hoppers in the mix and then the difference in length is obvious.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree that some 1/29th scale cars look way too big for 1/32 usage, however these are hoppers! And we're assuming the "1/32" mdc hoppers are truely 1/32 scale to begin width....

Anyway, I wonder which are the true 1:1 scale cars in this photo, cause the other cars clearly weren't build by 1:1 scale people 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...556407.jpg











http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...556407.jpg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

That is a great photo Ray. 

The width might all be the same, but height and length sure varied. 

I sure filled a few of those in my time.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

The rivets appear to be under-size on the Aristo car or are the rivets on the MDC over-size?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ConrailRay on 08 Feb 2013 05:17 PM 
I agree that some 1/29th scale cars look way too big for 1/32 usage, however these are hoppers! And we're assuming the "1/32" mdc hoppers are truely 1/32 scale to begin width....

Anyway, I wonder which are the true 1:1 scale cars in this photo, cause the other cars clearly weren't build by 1:1 scale people 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...556407.jpg











http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...556407.jpg
Ray
Different hoppers (1:1) different eras represented in the photo. The point being that the Berkshires would not have had this mix of such production years of hoppers during it's service. Put aside the size different of Aristo/MDC then focus on what best represented the hopper used when steam engine was in service. With that said, we all know that an owner has the right to run what he/she wishes. We have run 1:29 heavyweights, etc with Aster but that is due to lack of roadnames for particular herald car availability (J&M/D Leech have/had limited runs of specific RR's).


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles 

Just what eras do you see in this photo? 

The hopper lengths all look close to the same. 

I don't see any long hoppers in the photo. 

The car on the right side of the photo looks to be a mid to late 70s Ford.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 09 Feb 2013 05:51 AM 
Charles 

Just what eras do you see in this photo? 

The hopper lengths all look close to the same. 

I don't see any long hoppers in the photo. 

The car on the right side of the photo looks to be a mid to late 70s Ford. Seems to me a few clues based on non-railroad items such as the 70 Ford Torino, and the 60's Beetle . I am guessing that hoppers cars in the photo include some 
offset-side, extended-height cars acquired in time frame below. Thereby the photo would have hoppers represented outside the era of the Berkshire:

15000-15321 50 ton 1956-1967 (rebuilt) 
15500-16236 50 ton 1957-1970 (rebuilt) 

Bottomline, one cannot present this photo as representing a yard of coal hoppers during the era of steam for the Berkshire or any other steam engine in freight service.

Here is a true repesentation of the Berk pulling era correct freight cars with hoppers:


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Charles, 

An important point there--again, if you don't care about accuracy or "it's my railroad, and I'll run what I want", then by all means save you money and wait or look for the manufacturers to reproduce your engine or rolling stock in whatever scale makes you happy. Today, products appear to be more plentiful and less expensive in 1/29--so if you adhere to the the 10 ft rule,etc then have at it. Again, that logic can be carried to the extreme--I remember Dan Liebowitz running his Aster Daylight with southern coaches much to the horror of a few Brits in attendance....again, his railroad, but think of the money you can save with a common consist behind every engine!  Sam


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Period photos of Berkshire in 1944 with coal and freight cars for those who would really like to understand what be like in the era of steam during operations (run what you wish but at least acknowledge the true history of railroading to those wishing to understanding the difference over time):


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By boilingwater on 09 Feb 2013 10:28 AM 
.... Today, products appear to be more plentiful and less expensive in 1/29--so if you adhere to the the 10 ft rule,etc then have at it. ...sorry, but being 33% oversize, i can see the error at well over 10' away.
i suppose i'm not too surprised; the US ranks 25th in math skills worldwide.


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