# Why Support MLS???



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Its been a few years since I did this, but to lighten things up a bit.

I would like to see more folks renew their member ship to MLS or simply become Members just to help keep this site going.

I know that things don't always go the way we want, i to get mad, get tired of changes , etc.
But as we have learned , there is only so many folks in the busness of large scale and we have to learn to play together to keep the hobby going.
I have personally tried ,, tried , to not let any one keep me from enjoing this hobby or visiting with my friends.

What do you get out of paying to be here. The knowledge of knowing this site may still be around another year.

Its what we give to the site , not take.

We have all kinds on here , not sure what "kind" I am. 
But Carrie and I decieded this last summer after a downer year on my RR. that we will still plan to have the MLS get together each year because of our friends.

Yes there is other sites , other clubs etc.
But many of us call this home.

If you call this home, why not join for another year just to say thanks.
When it comes to money , the entertainment value of this site is priceless.

Thank you Shad


Marty Cozad


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

*Well said, Marty......*

Well.... even at our age we learn a lot here and able to share our hobby. We also get a place to store stuff for the price of a few dollars a year. 


So ya.... Guess we can call this place home..


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 24 Nov 2010 06:38 PM 
Its been a few years since I did this, but to lighten things up a bit.

I would like to see more folks renew their member ship to MLS or simply become Members just to help keep this site going.

I know that things don't always go the way we want, i to get mad, get tired of changes , etc.
But as we have learned , there is only so many folks in the busness of large scale and we have to learn to play together to keep the hobby going.
I have personally tried ,, tried , to not let any one keep me from enjoing this hobby or visiting with my friends.

What do you get out of paying to be here. The knowledge of knowing this site may still be around another year.

Its what we give to the site , not take.

We have all kinds on here , not sure what "kind" I am. 
But Carrie and I decieded this last summer after a downer year on my RR. that we will still plan to have the MLS get together each year because of our friends.

Yes there is other sites , other clubs etc.
But many of us call this home.

If you call this home, why not join for another year just to say thanks.
When it comes to money , the entertainment value of this site is priceless.

Thank you Shad


Marty Cozad


Did Shad buy you Dentures to say this ???


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

It is really very funny you should state this Marty.

It just so happen our newest member stopped by to check out my trains and pick up his trains you had from your steam up.

I talked to him about the importance of MLS to "newbies", I was making a pitch it to him as I am giving it a second chance..well I can tell you for one that there are a couple on this site that feel that their opinion is more important the most anyone elses and monoplizes answering all that post questions, and quite frankly thinks they know it all, weither he means it or not he comes accros as a "now-it-all! And is/has chased me away and has aleinated this new person from EVER wanting to join! We are not the first to state this!

Now I ask you all is this 1 person's monopolization worth chasing more people like this away? How can you get new members to join when this 1 member is able to run around here as a loose cannon?

The moderators are not containing this person when they know full well this is going on, if they do not know this then why are the moderators?

When I hear new people stating this kind of thing, and knowing myself I left once becaus of it, It makes me very mad to hear this, he is not the first member to leave because of this 1 persons always seeming to think we want to hear his opinion about EVERY subject here on this site!

So if you and SHAD and the rest of the members that are the elders of this site want to bring new blood onto this site, and truly want this hobby to grow....you'd had better throttle the 1 person I am refurring to, and we all know who that is! Or it will be a site for just you few and him, with a growth potential of ZERO!

I for one do not want to always hear from him! Some people will not answer to questions when they know they will be overpowered!

Now you might think I am trying to stur things up...I am not......but when I read this new post by one of the most respected elders on this site, and what I just had heard from a "NEWBIE" to this hobby,( and it wasn't the first time I have heard this), that I was trying to recruit...everyone that belives what Marty posted, better realize that there is a real problem here on MLS that needs to be addressed!

If you truly want this hobby and membership to grow! 


IMHO

BUBBA


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

I have learned a lot off this site and made many friends. over the years here. 

Questions or problems....This is great place to find information. 

You may get many answers but it is better than talking to just one source. Then you can decide what you want too do. 

Thanks for all the free info over the years and look to be here for many more.


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

I posted 2 things asking for help, not one response, thats OK, because I was miffed i went to another site and got the info, still dont matter, I upped for another 2 years because of the people I have met on this site and another site, I missed Martys in Sept and really missed seeing people I had met over the years, thats why I am on this site, because of the people.

There are people on this site that get annoying, so what, I dont pay attention. Focus on the good people, because there are far more of them.

I dont post hardly anymore, just my reasons, but I am on here at least once a day looking for info, and to get ideas, still the best site for information(even when noone responds to my posts, they will answer someone elses)

My 2 cents.

Tom h


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## curlyp (Sep 4, 2009)

I am now in my 2nd year of membership. I think some of the ideas and reviews from this site have saved me about 10 years worth of dues. There is also the sharing with new friends and the opportunity to run on the fairplex layout. 

Keep up the good work


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

As a Moderator my space on here is free. But I still send my money to Shad to support the Site. 

I think of all the people I have met through this site.

I have got a lot of help from the People on this side. 

I also get a lot of inspiration from the guys here.

It is money well spent. 

So I keep suporting it as much as I can.

JJ


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

Well if anyone has been on the internet and joined a forum, they need to grow a "thick" skin or ignore someone or give that person their own .02 cents simple as that. Thats the nature of it plain and simple. Gotta put on the big boys underoos on and man up. Its just the internet lol. Its not always going to be warm and fuzzy.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Madstang on 24 Nov 2010 07:57 PM 
It is really very funny you should state this Marty.

It just so happen our newest member stopped by to check out my trains and pick up his trains you had from your steam up.

I talked to him about the importance of MLS to "newbies", I was making a pitch it to him as I am giving it a second chance..well I can tell you for one that there are a couple on this site that feel that their opinion is more important the most anyone elses and monoplizes answering all that post questions, and quite frankly thinks they know it all, weither he means it or not he comes accros as a "now-it-all! And is/has chased me away and has aleinated this new person from EVER wanting to join! We are not the first to state this!

Now I ask you all is this 1 person's monopolization worth chasing more people like this away? How can you get new members to join when this 1 member is able to run around here as a loose cannon?

The moderators are not containing this person when they know full well this is going on, if they do not know this then why are the moderators?

When I hear new people stating this kind of thing, and knowing myself I left once becaus of it, It makes me very mad to hear this, he is not the first member to leave because of this 1 persons always seeming to think we want to hear his opinion about EVERY subject here on this site!

So if you and SHAD and the rest of the members that are the elders of this site want to bring new blood onto this site, and truly want this hobby to grow....you'd had better throttle the 1 person I am refurring to, and we all know who that is! Or it will be a site for just you few and him, with a growth potential of ZERO!

I for one do not want to always hear from him! Some people will not answer to questions when they know they will be overpowered!

Now you might think I am trying to stur things up...I am not......but when I read this new post by one of the most respected elders on this site, and what I just had heard from a "NEWBIE" to this hobby,( and it wasn't the first time I have heard this), that I was trying to recruit...everyone that belives what Marty posted, better realize that there is a real problem here on MLS that needs to be addressed!

If you truly want this hobby and membership to grow! 

IMHO






You are always giving a opionion but you never give a name? but yet you arent a 1st class member ?

You always seem to like to stir it up but never back up with what your saying ?

Here today gone tommarrow

MLS membership is the highest its ever been.

Wonder why HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Once again you dont like dont read to each there own

Yours is not the only opionion regardless of what you think.......


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By takevin on 24 Nov 2010 08:34 PM 
Well if anyone has been on the internet and joined a forum, they need to grow a "thick" skin or ignore someone or give that person their own .02 cents simple as that. Thats the nature of it plain and simple. Gotta put on the big boys underoos on and man up. Its just the internet lol. Its not always going to be warm and fuzzy.










100% correct sir...





Some babys that post once in a blue moon due need to man up........

And at least post something worth reading......










Like i said here today gone tommarrow


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## MikeK (Jan 3, 2008)

I have to say that I am in much on much the same track as Tom H above.

Although I do not personally post too much, the new information, tips and the entertainment value that I receive from this site are truly worth the cost of the First Class membership that I have held for a number of years. And for that, I will continue to support the site with my First Class membership.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have to agree with the poster above that NIK guy is a real pain in the ASS. The NERVE of him going out of his way to help a stranger get his GG1 in working condition when the manufacturer screwed him over







.

And don't even get me started on that Greg E guy. If he gives me any more useful and helpful information, saving me countless hours of trial and error, not to mention the costs of buying equipment that will not work as intended or be more trouble than its worth, I swear to god I will hunt him down and make his kiss my signed Lewis Polk 8x10









Then there's that AXEL and RJ guy, real jerks, if they were any nicer to me I swear I would throw up









I'm sorry that I left out the rest of you that have been so helpful to me, you all suck as well.

I have to say I don't know why anyone even bothers with this site.

Ron


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Obviously you don't pay attension, as you know whom I am talking about....need a name...please! 

Look St. Nick I am stating what I have heard, not opinions and or rumors first hand info, weither YOU choose to believe or not is also up to you! Man up??? I work with women that would eat most of you guys alive! Man up...Please! 

Some of you stagnet boys here are quite happy with what membership is here right now, that is cool...your opinion, I was stating to Marty's post, he on the other hand would like to see this site grow.. 
Marty likes to actively seek new members, with responses like the above you will keep chasing people away! 

No I am not a Gold Member", what are you doing to get me to place my cash down, nothing I can see!The beauty of this site is you DO NOT need to become a gold member to post, no one dictates who belongs or not! 
I personnally like new blood not old stagnet same ole stuff! We get a chance to get new enthusiastic "newbies", like the origional post stated then they get chased away! 

My origional post states fact not fiction....sorry if you can't handle it. 

So St. Nick would you like an affidavit from the people I have talked to personnally about this so YOU belive, ya really think I care if you believe? 

Sturring things...fact is fact! 

St. Nick you are correct, mine is not the only opinion, (by the way thank you captain obvious), it's the opinion of "newbies" that I have talked to, and bad press like this spreds and effects bringing in NEW money into the site..I am sure Shad would like NEW money comming in. 

No matter what your thoughts about me are, and truly if you think I really give a S--t, you truly don't get it! Fact is fact! 

You don't want to change things.....don't....but don't complain about no youngblood. 



Bubba


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Sorry Bubba

But every time you start to talk my head starts to throbe

Maybe we can start again tommarrow and you will under stand better..........


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been a 1st class member for many years and I still feel like an outsider.

I have posted pictures which I think are just s interesting as some of the others posted here and yet I have gotten only a couple of replies.

I guess i am not considered to be an expert enough for my posts to be acknowledged. Sometimes it is irritating because I think I have something worthwhile to say yet it is almost always totally ignored.

I guess it takes a long long long time to be accepted as someone who has something interesting and/or informative and/or important to say.

John


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 24 Nov 2010 06:38 PM 
Its been a few years since I did this, but to lighten things up a bit.

.... 
We have all kinds on here , not sure what "kind" I am. 
... 

Marty Cozad

Well Marty, a LOT of us here know what "kind" you are. You're one of the most benevolent, bighearted, overgenerous, and unselfish individuals I've ever had the pleasure to meet...and a **** of a nice guy too boot. And...frankly, there are a LOT of folks on this site like that. 

This IS a good site to become a paying member...cause as we all know, nothing is free. Enough income is needed yearly to pay for the bandwidth and server costs that we all use. 

For sure this is the least expensive "entertainment" and information source I use daily. Thanks again Marty for reminding us.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

OK I paid for a gold membership......now will you listen???? 


Bubba


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Spoken as a member and not as a mod: 

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times now that when people post something and get no response, they take it personally. I understand the feeling as I often post something in my Builder's Log I'm especially proud of (since I know what it took to achieve it) and I get no response or perhaps one or two. I guess I have the advantage here of being around almost since Day One, so I certainly don't feel like an outsider. In all honesty, however, I don't think it has anything to do with being an "insider" or an "outsider." Sometimes something that's worthy of attention perhaps gets little for whatever reason - maybe it's just one of those "off days" that occasionally happens when it seems like everyone is in a rotten mood. Other times something trivial will start a 12 page thread. Defecation occurs, and it's best not to take it personally. 

Another point brought up was someone asked a question and got no answers. It's happened to me as well. Sometimes no one KNOWS the answer, so no responses are posted. Maybe we'd feel better if we got a bunch of "I haven't a clue" replies, but that would add little to the content of the forums even if it prevented some personal bruises. Again, best not to take it personally. 

Another point is someone makes a comment on a thread and the conversation dries up, and they feel like they killed the conversation. Threads dry up all the time, and someone had to make the last post before it did. If it happens to be you, once again don't take it personally. It happens and it's no one's fault. That brings up another point. The mods don't like to lock threads, delete posts, etc. though sometimes it's unavoidable. When that happens it's often the case that the thread is locked when a mod becomes aware of the problem, and that problem may have occurred several posts back. If you happen to have made the last post in a thread before it was locked, that doesn't mean it was locked because of your post. If in doubt, PM the mod and ask him if your post was responsible. 

Lastly, there's no way in **** a bunch of people, all completely different, can gather anywhere that friction isn't going to develop. This is especially true on the Net where people are isolated by distance and their keyboard, and will often feel free to say things they'd never say in person. In my 10+ years here, there's been many who have rubbed me the wrong way, as I'm sure I have rubbed many others equally the wrong way. If you dislike someone, studiously ignore them. Don't read their posts, don't respond to them, and don't take their bait. Plus that will take all the fun out of it for them if indeed they are a troll who acts out to get attention. Others may just have a different style and aren't trying to be deliberately provocative. If you don't like their style, ignore them. You sure as **** aren't going to change them, nor should you try. People are what they are... "take them or leave them" is very likely the only choice you really have, and changing them into what you think they should be isn't an option. 

People call on the mods at times via email, PM, or mod alerts to take corrective actions when in fact the person they are complaining about hasn't broken any rules. That's like asking a cop to arrest someone for being a jerk. The world is full of jerks and you'll meet some on every forum you frequent if you hang around it long enough. Additionally, one man's jerk is another man's fountain of information. Develop a thicker skin and if someone gets your goat, ignore them. Remember that you too probably seem like a jerk to someone someplace, either currently or in the past. 

Lastly, if you try and treat others as you wish others to treat you, you'll probably get along better. This is true in the forums as well as in life generally. 

Moralizing sermon over.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I too have posted something and only got one or two replies. Not only do I look at the number of replies but also the number of visitors. Maybe not everyone had some infomation to give me. Maybe some of those vistors got something out of my post and were able to use it but didn't leave a response. That is ok too. To me it is the number of people who read my post encourages me to post again


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## Trainwreckfilms (Aug 19, 2009)

I think everyone should support the site! its not only been a great resource for me but it has made me a TON of new friends. Thanks all!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

This is NOT the direction I had exspected this to go. 
But I do want those who do not get replies to know that sometimes I personally don't have an answer. Or not sure if my answer would be helpful. 
Many a time my questons on Aristo site goes unanswered , yet I don't worry about it. 
The idea is to keep going on. 

Many a times my own kids don't answer me. 

PS Colin, I really like your logo.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 25 Nov 2010 12:25 AM 
Spoken as a member and not as a mod: 

I've seen it mentioned a couple of times now that when people post something and get no response, they take it personally. I understand the feeling as I often post something in my Builder's Log I'm especially proud of (since I know what it took to achieve it) and I get no response or perhaps one or two. I guess I have the advantage here of being around almost since Day One, so I certainly don't feel like an outsider. In all honesty, however, I don't think it has anything to do with being an "insider" or an "outsider." Sometimes something that's worthy of attention perhaps gets little for whatever reason - maybe it's just one of those "off days" that occasionally happens when it seems like everyone is in a rotten mood. Other times something trivial will start a 12 page thread. Defecation occurs, and it's best not to take it personally. 

Another point brought up was someone asked a question and got no answers. It's happened to me as well. Sometimes no one KNOWS the answer, so no responses are posted. Maybe we'd feel better if we got a bunch of "I haven't a clue" replies, but that would add little to the content of the forums even if it prevented some personal bruises. Again, best not to take it personally. 

Another point is someone makes a comment on a thread and the conversation dries up, and they feel like they killed the conversation. Threads dry up all the time, and someone had to make the last post before it did. If it happens to be you, once again don't take it personally. It happens and it's no one's fault. That brings up another point. The mods don't like to lock threads, delete posts, etc. though sometimes it's unavoidable. When that happens it's often the case that the thread is locked when a mod becomes aware of the problem, and that problem may have occurred several posts back. If you happen to have made the last post in a thread before it was locked, that doesn't mean it was locked because of your post. If in doubt, PM the mod and ask him if your post was responsible. 

Lastly, there's no way in **** a bunch of people, all completely different, can gather anywhere that friction isn't going to develop. This is especially true on the Net where people are isolated by distance and their keyboard, and will often feel free to say things they'd never say in person. In my 10+ years here, there's been many who have rubbed me the wrong way, as I'm sure I have rubbed many others equally the wrong way. If you dislike someone, studiously ignore them. Don't read their posts, don't respond to them, and don't take their bait. Plus that will take all the fun out of it for them if indeed they are a troll who acts out to get attention. Others may just have a different style and aren't trying to be deliberately provocative. If you don't like their style, ignore them. You sure as **** aren't going to change them, nor should you try. People are what they are... "take them or leave them" is very likely the only choice you really have, and changing them into what you think they should be isn't an option. 

People call on the mods at times via email, PM, or mod alerts to take corrective actions when in fact the person they are complaining about hasn't broken any rules. That's like asking a cop to arrest someone for being a jerk. The world is full of jerks and you'll meet some on every forum you frequent if you hang around it long enough. Additionally, one man's jerk is another man's fountain of information. Develop a thicker skin and if someone gets your goat, ignore them. Remember that you too probably seem like a jerk to someone someplace, either currently or in the past. 

Lastly, if you try and treat others as you wish others to treat you, you'll probably get along better. This is true in the forums as well as in life generally. 

Moralizing sermon over.
Dwight, very well spoken, truly words to live by.....but what about new people?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I pay because this is the best large scale site for information and solutions. 

I made a rocky entrance and regret that, but stuck it out and have made some friends here (though they may deny it, ha ha) 

For a while when I'd see a post with no replies, I'd make one and then several same heads would respond to correct me! Too funny, but I seem to have lost that touch! 

John


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

I've been on MLS for about three months now. I log on almost every day to see what the chatter is. I made a handful of posts, some have got responses and some not so much. I don't take it personally at all. I love this site and can't get enough of it. I have already learned so much from MLS and know I will for as long as the site remains. I don't mind if there are a few that seem to post on every subject. At least some one is getting a response right? Usually i feel it's a valid bit of info or opinion too. I don't know any of you personally yet but feel like I should. You are a good-natured hilarious bunch! I say don't change a thing and I'll be stepping up to the plate with a membership today. Take it from a new guy, it's a great site.


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## Mike O (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been a member since almost day one. I really appreciate the camaraderie, information, insight, and help that the community provides. I think the moderators do an excellent job. I found that many threads do indeed take on a conversational tone between a few (or many) posters - often with a good bit of humor and ribbing. These folks seem to know each other from meets and getting together. Nothing wrong there, they are fun to read - I've participated in some of those myself. Not all posts are going to rate a lot of responses, or even a lot of reads; there are a lot of diverse interests on this site and some things just might not be an area which moves people. I think the comment on "newbie's" post not generating a response is a shame if a question is posed or feedback is solicited. In the past, I often have not read those posts but will start in the oft chance that I might be able to offer something constructive. I had one case where I posted a question and a response that was posted blew me up. That's OK, I just considered the source and ignored it. Short of calling my dog ugly, I don't take much personally. And finally if a thread gets gnarly, I just stop reading it. 

Thanks to Marty for starting this thread. Some very insightful responses here. 

Mike


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Like some of you on MLS, I have been a First Class Member since day one. Never was sorry. Met some great people on here and always got sound advice. In the past few years, health issues have prevented me in finishing SOOOOOO many projects. But the camaraderie is why I stay AND will continue to support and participate.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, very well spoken, truly words to live by.....but what about new people?I don't claim to have an answer to that question Bubba. If I did, the site would have been frictionless long ago.









All I can say is that if a new person, after reading the site for some period of time, is bugged enough by one or more people posting here that it prevents them from joining, then they may be too thin-skinned to be happy here anyway. I don't think we should censor some to make others happy so long as people are staying within the rules, nor do I think we should censor people who may not possess the social skills possessed by others. There isn't a person who's ever lived that was liked by everyone they ever encountered. It's also an interesting "coincidence" that some of those who call for stiffer moderation of those they dislike are the same ones who make the most noise when they themselves cross the line and clash with a mod. 

****, there are people here who go outside the rules half the times they post, but fortunately they don't post all that often. There aren't enough moderators in the world to go through every post of every thread and edit/delete every post that crosses the line, and I honestly don't think the vast majority of the membership would want that even if it were possible. I participate on other sites that are moderated with a far heavier fist than this one, and there are still other sites that have almost no moderation at all. There are advocates for and against both views, and people have left MLS or both reasons - we moderated too heavily or we moderated not heavily enough to suit them. One guy left because the mods had "Moderator" listed under their name and didn't post a disclaimer with every post. He's now happily posting on a site that has no mods. Good for him and more power to him!

Bottom line, we've sort of naturally found our own groove here by experience and general consensus (as do all sites that are around long enough) and people will naturally gravitate to the site where they are comfortable. If MLS happens to be that site, great and "Welcome Aboard." If not, so be it. No single site will make everybody happy, and one will ever find a single site where they like and are liked by everyone. Large groups of people are just like that, whether it be a club, a church, a company, a job, or a web site. The larger the group, the sooner we find someone we don't like or don't get along with. Each of us then has to decide if the gains outweigh the losses, and whether to stay or leave. In my experience, the loss column can be substantially reduced and friction avoided by studiously ignoring those I don't like and having fun with those I do. 

MHO for whatever it's worth and because you asked.









Disclaimer: spoken as a member, not a mod. The views expressed are my own and not necessarily those of MLS, its owner, or any of the mods.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

No Dwight I asked, and am very thick skinned, you have to be to do what I do with who you do it with! 

If I did not want to know I would'nt have asked.

I am a no bullshit kind of guy that hates skirting issues or ignoring them. Some people like ignoring 800 pound gorillas in the room, I do not!

This is what makes the world interesting.

Now I know the ground rules I will pass them on to new people....no big deal.

I will continue to forwarn NEW people about the possibility of what I was trying to get addressed.....no problem....there is still many good reason's to belong.

Bubba


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 25 Nov 2010 07:27 AM 
I pay because this is the best large scale site for information and solutions. 

I made a rocky entrance and regret that, but stuck it out and have made some friends here (though they may deny it, ha ha) 

For a while when I'd see a post with no replies, I'd make one and then several same heads would respond to correct me! Too funny, but I seem to have lost that touch! 

John 





You are correct John in that this is the best Large scale site online in my opionion









Your entrance was fine









And you have more freinds here than you know.









See we can all get along.................


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Now I know the ground rules I will pass them on to new people....no big deal.I wouldn't necessarily interpret anything I said as ground rules Bubba, or as any kind of rules for that matter. As I said in the disclaimer, I'm expressing my opinions as a participant, and because you asked, and not as a mod or a representative of MLS in any way, shape, or form. I'm just sharing how I personally see things and how I personally try get along (and stay out of trouble).


The rules are the site owner's responsibility, not mine, and he makes and changes them as he sees fit, not me. That's as it should be, as he's the guy making the financial commitment and taking the hit, not me. My personal feeling is that while nothing is ever perfect, he must be doing something right since MLS has survived for 10 years and continues to grow, while other sites have withered and died, or failed to get off the launch pad altogether.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

No--No you are not stating anthing that others an'te thinking.

I did not mean to imply these are the "RULES" of this site, I meant just that these views are shared by most of the posters of this thread, so in essence they are quite possibly what the people here think..that's all..which is cool..again no big deal. I have yet to read any agreement with what I stated...views of the many outweigh the view of the one.

Again I will still pass on, let me calarify this, what I gather from you and the other posts on this thread, along with what other new people have encountered here...let them decide....don't know how else to clarify my missrepresentation of what you said as JUST a personnel opinion and not as that of a "moderator".

Sorry for the mix up.

Ya know Dwight I do respect your opinion, weather it lines up with mine or not, it doesn't really matter. I have followed off and on some of the people that have posted on this thread and I would rather alaign up with your thoughts then theirs.

I remember another member in our club a very long time ago got torked off at something you said and I can't remember what it was but when I heard it from him along with you I couldn't understand why he got mad in the first place...what I know of you from reading your posts verses of what I knew of the member I drew my own conclusion...life is continualy reading between the line and filling in the blanks, with the infromation you are given...that is what I was doing.

Did I make it clear enough, I was not implying these are the thoughts of the site? If not I will try another way.

Bubba


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

No problem Bubba. We understand each other. 

"Obie said he was makin' sure, an' friends, Obie was!" 
_Alice's Restaurant_


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

COOL!


Bubba


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

What do you get out of paying to be here 

Well among other things I get to see things like Nick post that kiss-ass smiley....I'll still be laughing at Christmas over that one! 

Keith


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

YES SIR, Shad has a real "family" setting on this site. 
I hope Shad keeps this place going awhile longer before he pulls all his hair out. 

I still think Dwight needs a raise. $$$


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Madstang on 24 Nov 2010 10:53 PM 
OK I paid for a gold membership......now will you listen???? 


Bubba 

Its about time,























You do know i Kid cause i care, RITE.............


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Madstang on 24 Nov 2010 07:57 PM 
It is really very funny you should state this Marty.

It just so happen our newest member stopped by to check out my trains and pick up his trains you had from your steam up.

I talked to him about the importance of MLS to "newbies", I was making a pitch it to him as I am giving it a second chance..well I can tell you for one that there are a couple on this site that feel that their opinion is more important the most anyone elses and monoplizes answering all that post questions, and quite frankly thinks they know it all, weither he means it or not he comes accros as a "now-it-all! And is/has chased me away and has aleinated this new person from EVER wanting to join! We are not the first to state this!

Now I ask you all is this 1 person's monopolization worth chasing more people like this away? How can you get new members to join when this 1 member is able to run around here as a loose cannon?

The moderators are not containing this person when they know full well this is going on, if they do not know this then why are the moderators?

When I hear new people stating this kind of thing, and knowing myself I left once becaus of it, It makes me very mad to hear this, he is not the first member to leave because of this 1 persons always seeming to think we want to hear his opinion about EVERY subject here on this site!

So if you and SHAD and the rest of the members that are the elders of this site want to bring new blood onto this site, and truly want this hobby to grow....you'd had better throttle the 1 person I am refurring to, and we all know who that is! Or it will be a site for just you few and him, with a growth potential of ZERO!

I for one do not want to always hear from him! Some people will not answer to questions when they know they will be overpowered!

Now you might think I am trying to stur things up...I am not......but when I read this new post by one of the most respected elders on this site, and what I just had heard from a "NEWBIE" to this hobby,( and it wasn't the first time I have heard this), that I was trying to recruit...everyone that belives what Marty posted, better realize that there is a real problem here on MLS that needs to be addressed!

If you truly want this hobby and membership to grow! 


IMHO

BUBBA

Bubba, I believe you are talking about me. If so, have the guts to put my name here. Why did you not speak up when we were face to face?

So when I tried to help you with your 0-6-0, that was bad? Show me the posts where I'm just posting to post, not where I'm trying to give some helpful information.

No, I'm not a know it all, I learn every day, but isn't the idea to share information and help others? So damned if you do and damned if you don't?

Man up, or seriously, shut up.

Greg 


moderators: this BS of personal attacks without putting a name is BS, putting things in 3rd person but identifying an individual is a cheap lawyer's game. This is not the first personal attack by Bubba.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Nick I don't even know you..or heard about you till this....

No matter what I do, where I have go I am always notorious!

Are you guys following the Color me gone thread???









What's up with that? WOW!!! Not nice!

Bubba


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

YOU made the color of this thread WAY BACK on the FIRST PAGE Bubba... a personal attack on one person. Your words above, you singled out one person.

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Madstang on 25 Nov 2010 04:53 PM 
Nick I don't even know you..or heard about you till this....

No matter what I do, where I have go I am always notorious!

Are you guys following the Color me gone thread???









What's up with that? WOW!!! Not nice!

Bubba
UMMMMMMMMM JOKE RELAX PLEASE................


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Nov 2010 04:53 PM 
Posted By Madstang on 24 Nov 2010 07:57 PM 
It is really very funny you should state this Marty.

It just so happen our newest member stopped by to check out my trains and pick up his trains you had from your steam up.

I talked to him about the importance of MLS to "newbies", I was making a pitch it to him as I am giving it a second chance..well I can tell you for one that there are a couple on this site that feel that their opinion is more important the most anyone elses and monoplizes answering all that post questions, and quite frankly thinks they know it all, weither he means it or not he comes accros as a "now-it-all! And is/has chased me away and has aleinated this new person from EVER wanting to join! We are not the first to state this!

Now I ask you all is this 1 person's monopolization worth chasing more people like this away? How can you get new members to join when this 1 member is able to run around here as a loose cannon?

The moderators are not containing this person when they know full well this is going on, if they do not know this then why are the moderators?

When I hear new people stating this kind of thing, and knowing myself I left once becaus of it, It makes me very mad to hear this, he is not the first member to leave because of this 1 persons always seeming to think we want to hear his opinion about EVERY subject here on this site!

So if you and SHAD and the rest of the members that are the elders of this site want to bring new blood onto this site, and truly want this hobby to grow....you'd had better throttle the 1 person I am refurring to, and we all know who that is! Or it will be a site for just you few and him, with a growth potential of ZERO!

I for one do not want to always hear from him! Some people will not answer to questions when they know they will be overpowered!

Now you might think I am trying to stur things up...I am not......but when I read this new post by one of the most respected elders on this site, and what I just had heard from a "NEWBIE" to this hobby,( and it wasn't the first time I have heard this), that I was trying to recruit...everyone that belives what Marty posted, better realize that there is a real problem here on MLS that needs to be addressed!

If you truly want this hobby and membership to grow! 


IMHO

BUBBA

Bubba, I believe you are talking about me. If so, have the guts to put my name here. Why did you not speak up when we were face to face?

So when I tried to help you with your 0-6-0, that was bad? Show me the posts where I'm just posting to post, not where I'm trying to give some helpful information.

No, I'm not a know it all, I learn every day, but isn't the idea to share information and help others? So damned if you do and damned if you don't?

Man up, or seriously, shut up.

Greg 





Greg GFY!
I guess you want this to get UGLY again! OF COURSE it is you ..really I like help but not always from YOU! 
Weather you know it or not EVERYONE bad mouths you...mister know it all, 

Man up remember at the show how you were cowering from your wife??? Begging her that you wanted to by Rex's Northern, and she placed all those "conditions" on you to do so!
And you tell me to man up YOU HAVE some F---ing nerve!

In front of everyone this took place totally making you look like a spoiled kept man!
REX had to talk her down...another man had to do that! I guess you had better MAN UP!

Make sure before you start trying to intamidate people youd had better makew sure your back yard is clean! 

I'd think you'd had better shut up untill you sprout some!


I tried to say this in a subtle way before in a post, but someone like yourself don't get it! So now here it is....Not all of want to hear EVERY 
F---ing answer you have on every subject, we have lost people cause of you...CLEAR!!!

I was going to totally drop this and ignore you completely.....but you want me to "MAN UP"...well here it is


Now GFY!

Bubba

I guess this will be locked now


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

UMMMMMMMMMM I dont think you got the topic locked..

But i can tell you this

Talkin about someone elses wife is a NO NO dude

You should know that









Thats one place even i wont go..............

You should say your sorry for that one Dude.....

No matter what, that was way uncool........


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Not talking about his wife talking about his behavior infront of his wife, you are right it is disrespectful, and I am sorry about taking it that way...he was talking about manning up that is what I was addressing..nothing bad about his wife, I liked his wife, what I heard she seemed like a nice lady! 

Bubba


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Nick Iwas working on the apology before I read your post stating it was wrong, or before I got down to apologizing!
really I was dissrepecrting him NOT HIS WIFE!

The man up really set me off!


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

I will continue to support MLS. I have gotten some helpful info here. Lots of nice people.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Ya know I was trying to avoid any more of this..knowing how people felt...this is not where I wanted to go!

I'd like to forget this even started! But can't go back...

Meant no dissrepect to anyone's wife!

Greg if you feel I personnaly attacked from the beginning then we are both even with your post...lets forget it....if you can't....then it is what it is!

Bubba


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What do you mean if I "feel" you attacked me from the beginning? 

YOUR POST IS THERE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD FOR ALL TO SEE, YOU SINGLE OUT ONE PERSON, AND NOW YOU CONFIRMED IT WAS ME. 

You talk about "not wanting to go there" but you posted that first? You WANTED to go there, and you WENT THERE by posting that. 

You need to look up the work hypocrite. 

And I'm sorry you are the only person who was present that did not know my wife was having fun and playing it up. 

Since you have shown your true colors, I would be pretty stupid to believe the "lets forget it" statement, as kind of a fake apology. 

Greg


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## reeveha (Jan 2, 2008)

As someone who has been a 1st class member for only 4 years now, mostly a lurker, I have found that this board has the least personal attacks and feuds than the other boards I frequent (especially Disney boards). 

When you post a question, usually you get quite a few suggestions on how to resolve your issue.

All people get crotchety at times,especially me, but overall everyone on this board have good attitudes and are very helpful. Sometimes it just a misunderstanding of the original question or a misinterpretation of the reply that get people going off on a tangent.

Compared to that other LS board, MLS is the best resource for the money!!!! 

imho,

Herb


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes Greg I wanted to go there because of what I had heard from "newbies" numerous times. But can see now that people here are more interested in the older members then gaining new blood...that I did not understand before I posted the origional post...had I known that little tib bit of info I would have not gone there! 
And you would have known nothing about what I stated....from me anyway. 

You know Greg, you can believe what ever you want, now I am a hypocrite..well In staying what I stated above I don't throw my apologies around lightly as I hate eating crow! And that is what I am doing right now, so how can that be fake??? 
If this makes you feel better then OK I am a hypocrite...feel better...my bad, meant NO dissrepect to your wife! I am sorry to say now it was just aimed at you! 

When I am told I am to man up, and shut up I get fired up. 
I am of small stature, but in every way more man then most men I run into! 
And how would I know how you and your wife interact, as that was the first time I met you except for online...looked real to me! 

So again if eating crow isn't enough, I don't know of what else to do. 

Bubba


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

By the way for all that are on the sideline reading all this and following it, BOY I am sure it makes for some GREAT entertainment...for them of course!!!

Bubba


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Not really.... 
kinda sad 
Happy Thanksgiving 

John


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick - for as crochety as he seems, which is all fake, he was the first one to send me something I needed, stepped up and helped, which I am very grateful for.

Bubba - when I was first at Martys he always took time to answer every one of my dumb questions, which I am very grateful for.

Greg - he has helped a lot of newbies with his web site, tried to answer a lot of questions in his way, researched a lot of things on his own time to help other people, which i am very grateful for.

Everyone has tried to help me as a newbie, and other people I know who are new to outdoor trains. I think you have to weed through all the information, and who is giving it, but it still comes down to people are trying to help other people.

I am very THANKFUL for this site, and will always try to be an ambassedor for the hobby like Marty.

Tom H


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

well I guess Dwight needs to lock another one of my threads. 

thanks alot 

Dwight 

Shad hang in there.


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

*To get this thread back on-topic that Marty originally started:*

If I had to pick two events that most affected my enjoyment, envolvement, and commitment to Garden Railways it would be an easy choice for me. First, would be seeing MLS, and becoming a member. I have learned greatly from threads on MLS. Second, would be the first time I attended Marty's "Thingy" in Nebraska City several years ago. I met people, gained ideas, saw a new perspective, and have made life-long friends. 

As those of you that read my thread last summer on expanding the Hedgeapple Rio-Gram RR 2010, I have tried to sometimes use new as well as tried-and-true methods for building the layout. I have also taken that approach with many of my RC conversions to locos. Sometimes the reader count says that many are interested even though few post. Other times, there are great interactions of posts and sharing material. Sadly, I no longer feel the desire to post about electrical mods very often. 

Right now, I am in a RRing lull. Part of it based on work, part $$, and largely health. Personal contact with other MLSers by phone, chat, email, and/or reading threads is still my PRIMARY window into the GR world during this lull.

A couple of years ago, Shad opened up the opportunity to get a life-time membership. I chose to get the life-time membership. I don't regret it a bit. I would encourage non-Gold members to sign up, support, and continue to be a part of this GR family.

JimC


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Marty

Everything is cool.............

We are back on track

No need to lock Martys thread

He's in pain this week

Be kind


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 25 Nov 2010 06:46 PM 
well I guess Dwight needs to lock another one of my threads. 

thanks alot 

Dwight 

Shad hang in there. 

Figures it's one of them there battery guys causing trouble again


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Tisk Tisk


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

I think the simple fact that one thread got 64 comments and 3182 views and this thread got 58 comments and 1931 views over two days shows how well used this forum is. This is a busy place and there are a lot of lurkers out there, but I'm sure they have gotten some good info from this site. 

I echo Marty's appeal to support the site.


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## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

Marty, 

It was real good of you to start this thread. Hope to make it to your "thingy" one of these years after I kick the kids out of the house. For the moment, I'm mainly lurking...absorbing all the data, info and techniques that I'll need for someday.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

This site is my primary reason for getting on the computer each day! It is like an extended RR club. Considering the fact that there are thousands of members, it's only natural that there will be conflicts from time to time and some of them will get personal. Personally, I have no desire to read through personal attacks and I agree that these need to be taken back-channel. Fortunately, this is a rare occurence here on MLS! The greatest benefit that MLS gives us _is_ the support and commaraderie of the membership! That alone makes it a worthwhile endeavour! Like Jim Carter (pimanjc), I also took advantage of the "life membership" renewal option a couple of years ago. I would encourage anyone that can to upgrade to 1st class (Gold) membership! The benefits far outweigh any perceived personality slights!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not going to lock this if it ends NOW! It seems to have ended, and I hope it stays that way, but in the few hours I was away eating Thanksgiving dinner with family and friends, things sure got ugly... and on Thanksgiving no less.







Why some of you guys feel the need to air everything publicly is beyond me. That's what PM's and emails are for. If you have a beef with another member, please use those resources and keep it off the public board.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pimanjc on 25 Nov 2010 06:53 PM 
*To get this thread back on-topic that Marty originally started:*


Right now, I am in a RRing lull. Part of it based on work, part $$, and largely health. Personal contact with other MLSers by phone, chat, email, and/or reading threads is still my PRIMARY window into the GR world during this lull.

A couple of years ago, Shad opened up the opportunity to get a life-time membership. I chose to get the life-time membership. I don't regret it a bit. I would encourage non-Gold members to sign up, support, and continue to be a part of this GR family.

JimC
..............................................................................................
Boy Mr. Jim C. There must of been two full moons in the last few day as these so called train postsssssssssss went wild. 

Can't believe the personal hits that came about on here. But. If I was able at the time that Shad posted the Life-time membership and I had the money at that time I would of done it with no questions asked. 

This is one of the best links for Our hobby to share and learn from people around the world..
That is a big improvement over the years... Try to do this....... what we can do here back in the 50ths or 60ths. You were luck to even find a hobby shop or any one to talk to of our hobbys. 

Sorry to single you out Jim, but we both have the same ideas and couldn't resist quoting part of yours. 
Sure hope this get back to the original post started by Marty or just lock it and everyone start over on a new day. 

Back to trains and fun.. That my six bits worth and sorry that some just have to destroy a good thing.. 
Boy , We sure got sucked in to this one before it closes. You all have some great coming Holidays........


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Why Support MLS??? Because this is the "Gold Standard" of Largescale Train Forums, period.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

You know I belong to a couple of forums beyond this one...Posting is never an issue there like it is here. My browser, the forum software, or a lack of my understanding, reason unknown. I can run all sorts of complex engineering software but have yet to figure out how to complete a proper thread response or post a pic. The "preview" tool does not appear to work. Quoting a previous post often results with your response within the original posters text block (I have noted this in other members posts too). A recent response of mine showed the "quote" but dropped my entire response. Posted a pic once, could not preview it, it failed to show up after I submitted the post. Log out, log back in...red "X-box". 5 minutes later and it shows up, way to big of course. I share very little of what I'd like because it is too cumbersome to do so. 

Using the forum should be a lot easier than it is. Other forums are a breeze, here you have to jump through hoops. I would consider supporting MLS with a contribution if the site was more "user friendly". 

Just my opinion, no "flame" intended.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pterosaur on 26 Nov 2010 07:13 AM 
You know I belong to a couple of forums beyond this one...Posting is never an issue there like it is here. My browser, the forum software, or a lack of my understanding, reason unknown. I can run all sorts of complex engineering software but have yet to figure out how to complete a proper thread response or post a pic. The "preview" tool does not appear to work. Quoting a previous post often results with your response within the original posters text block (I have noted this in other members posts too). A recent response of mine showed the "quote" but dropped my entire response. Posted a pic once, could not preview it, it failed to show up after I submitted the post. Log out, log back in...red "X-box". 5 minutes later and it shows up, way to big of course. I share very little of what I'd like because it is too cumbersome to do so. 

Using the forum should be a lot easier than it is. Other forums are a breeze, here you have to jump through hoops. I would consider supporting MLS with a contribution if the site was more "user friendly". 

Just my opinion, no "flame" intended. 


Honestly, like Pterosaur, the format is why I let my first class-member status lapse. Nothing to do with content or membership.


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## jamarti (Jan 2, 2008)

I was a lurker, looker and poster a few years back. Work got in the way but I maintained my 1st class membership, hoping the resources would be here when I retire in January. Great source of info.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 24 Nov 2010 06:38 PM 
Its been a few years since I did this, but to lighten things up a bit.

I would like to see more folks renew their member ship to MLS or simply become Members just to help keep this site going.

I know that things don't always go the way we want, i to get mad, get tired of changes , etc.
But as we have learned , there is only so many folks in the busness of large scale and we have to learn to play together to keep the hobby going.
I have personally tried ,, tried , to not let any one keep me from enjoing this hobby or visiting with my friends.

What do you get out of paying to be here. The knowledge of knowing this site may still be around another year.

Its what we give to the site , not take.

We have all kinds on here , not sure what "kind" I am. 
But Carrie and I decieded this last summer after a downer year on my RR. that we will still plan to have the MLS get together each year because of our friends.

Yes there is other sites , other clubs etc.
But many of us call this home.

If you call this home, why not join for another year just to say thanks.
When it comes to money , the entertainment value of this site is priceless.

Thank you Shad


Marty Cozad


Marty: It's good to hear that you and Carrie plan to continue your annual "thingy". Those are a lot of work and require a great deal of planning and resources. I follow them very closely here on MLS. My involvment in this hobby is migrating to "chewing the fats" with the boys. Events like yours are important part of the hobby. I hope to make it to one of your get-to-gethers someday. Burn, oil and water up that new steam track you are building. Have to stay close to home these days, however.

vr Bob


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Jim Agnew on 26 Nov 2010 06:23 AM 
Why Support MLS??? Because this is the "Gold Standard" of Largescale Train Forums, period. 

Amen Jim.... I would be lost without MLS and the friends I have made on here. I would probably not even BE in this hobby anymore. Can you imagine... only having Garden Railways magazine to learn from? Every 2 months! lol 
I'm a lifer! Now, just don't piss me off.


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

You guys talk about Marty's thingy waaay to often!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I suppose it's different for those that have been there and beheld it....









John


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

You know I belong to a couple of forums beyond this one...Posting is never an issue there like it is here. My browser, the forum software, or a lack of my understanding, reason unknown. I can run all sorts of complex engineering software but have yet to figure out how to complete a proper thread response or post a pic. The "preview" tool does not appear to work. Quoting a previous post often results with your response within the original posters text block (I have noted this in other members posts too). A recent response of mine showed the "quote" but dropped my entire response. Posted a pic once, could not preview it, it failed to show up after I submitted the post. Log out, log back in...red "X-box". 5 minutes later and it shows up, way to big of course. I share very little of what I'd like because it is too cumbersome to do so. 

Using the forum should be a lot easier than it is. Other forums are a breeze, here you have to jump through hoops. I would consider supporting MLS with a contribution if the site was more "user friendly". 

I have to say that I totally agree. I have to use my HTML coding just to get photos and links to work - which takes a two-step process. Unfortunately it never used to need such a hassle, and the idiots [sorry for the personal attack, but they are losing clients for Shad,] whp produced this forum subsystem yet won't fix the stupid bugs are making it difficult for me to continue. 

Yes, this is a great big friendly club, yet in all large clubs there are people you try to avoid, and people who pop in, drop a bomb, and then disappear. Maybe I'll just read the Live Steam forum, where the people seem to be more rational than average for this forum.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe I'll just read the Live Steam forum, where the people seem to be more rational than average for this forum.Do duh phrase "Aster vs. Accucraft" strike a familiar note?


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, Thats like comparing Mercedes to KIA...... DUCK 

disclaimer: Dwight started it this.... hehe


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

See???


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Heck we can't even agree which steam oil to use.

But we are a Fun Bunch to hang out with.


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

10W40 - 20w50 for those HOT summer days!


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 27 Nov 2010 11:20 AM 
Dwight, Thats like comparing Mercedes to KIA...... DUCK 

disclaimer: Dwight started it this.... hehe Careful, Jeff







..... I just bought an 2008 KIA Sedona EX with all the bells, whistles and buttons and love it..









No diesel horn though.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 27 Nov 2010 07:29 PM 
Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 27 Nov 2010 11:20 AM 
Dwight, Thats like comparing Mercedes to KIA...... DUCK 

disclaimer: Dwight started it this.... hehe Careful, Jeff







..... I just bought an 2008 KIA Sedona EX with all the bells, whistles and buttons and love it..









No diesel horn though. 




You need to change the sound card Stan







Then you can get the Diesel Horn.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I just bought an 2008 KIA Sedona EX with all the bells, whistles and buttons and love it.You sparkie guys and your buttons!! hehehe


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 27 Nov 2010 07:43 PM 
I just bought an 2008 KIA Sedona EX with all the bells, whistles and buttons and love it.You sparkie guys and your buttons!! hehehe It even starts with a battery....







and I don't have to worry about burned fingers or other extremities.










JJ.... I could put one of the new Phoenix PB11's under hood and surprise a whole bunch of folks.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys, it’s true, in the live steam form we do start posts about Aster verses Accucraft and which steam oil to use. If you read the posts as they’re meant you’ll see why, we get along so well we need to make up things to complain about and egg each other on or it would be a real boring form. All we would be able to do is tell each other how much fun we had steaming up and post pictures to prove it.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Stan, 
Maybe you could get PHX to program one for Hemi with straight headers.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 27 Nov 2010 08:07 PM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 27 Nov 2010 07:43 PM 
I just bought an 2008 KIA Sedona EX with all the bells, whistles and buttons and love it.You sparkie guys and your buttons!! hehehe It even starts with a battery....








and I don't have to worry about burned fingers or other extremities.










JJ.... I could put one of the new Phoenix PB11's under hood and surprise a whole bunch of folks.












If it has all the "bells" and "WHISTLES"... Who needs a silly ol' "horn" at all?


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

(*Whew!) I just now had an epiphany! I know what's going on! We're (collectively) BORED!!! The economy has been in the doldrums and not much new LS has shown up. It's almost a kind of "cabin fever" where we're starting to get on each other's nerves (hence the atrocious behavior of some whom I would never have guessed would do so!) This would also explain the dogpiling on a guy that well, probably had it coming but that's beside the point! He made one post that said in essence "Goodbye" and then the thread came alive with recriminations! (Yes, 67 posts in a 34 hr period as a total count may be a record but what did it _really_ accomplish?) WE'RE BORED, WE'RE MAD AS **** AND WE AREN'T GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!! (or some such expression...) As to how to fix it? Don't have a clue! (I just have the epiphanies. I don't do the miracles!)


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

If it's cabin fever already, I can't wait to see what February brings!!!!


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Stan we have the same taste in Cars, I have the same "Old truck", a Kia Sedona EX. love it, have never used the DVD player yet! but it pulls our camping trailer up hill and down dale.
Mmmmmh, have to think about a diesel horn sound card though..........................








If it was easier to upload pictures I would re consider 1st Class membership. Not all of us are computer experts. Just my 2 cents worth on the prime subject.


Rod


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Gee, Stan, some of us "battery guys" are so gung ho, we even drive cars that run on batteries some of the time!!!!!

Ed


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By eheading on 28 Nov 2010 06:14 AM 
Gee, Stan, some of us "battery guys" are so gung ho, we even drive cars that run on batteries some of the time!!!!!

Ed
Yes, ED.... Tech-in-ology has come a long, long way.... It will certainly be interesting to see what the future holds. 


Rod, thanks for the comments with the post about your "Truck". Ours has the 3.8 V6 and it does a great job coming up the hills out of Phoenix headed back to Dewey. Don't have a tow package on it though. 

Sempro.... That really was a very bad slip of the tongue. I should have said it has all the "bells, HORNS and buttons."


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Cabin Fever???? 
I don't have enough time to work on the RR, etc. Inside or out. I can't get enough done.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 27 Nov 2010 11:44 PM 
(*Whew!) I just now had an epiphany! I know what's going on! We're (collectively) BORED!!! The economy has been in the doldrums and not much new LS has shown up. It's almost a kind of "cabin fever" where we're starting to get on each other's nerves (hence the atrocious behavior of some whom I would never have guessed would do so!) This would also explain the dogpiling on a guy that well, probably had it coming but that's beside the point! He made one post that said in essence "Goodbye" and then the thread came alive with recriminations! (Yes, 67 posts in a 34 hr period as a total count may be a record but what did it _really_ accomplish?) WE'RE BORED, WE'RE MAD AS **** AND WE AREN'T GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!! (or some such expression...) As to how to fix it? Don't have a clue! (I just have the epiphanies. I don't do the miracles!)









Steve you are too funny!! Aren't epiphanies great!?

Bubba


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I drive a Hyundai Elantra Limited and it has been a great car, but what I really want is a STEAM powered car.... What that has to do with supporting MLS, I have no idea


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 28 Nov 2010 07:41 AM 
Well I drive a Hyundai Elantra Limited and it has been a great car, but what I really want is a STEAM powered car.... What that has to do with supporting MLS, I have no idea 
That would be really cool...

I myself want to build a Diesel Chopper, mainly because I drive a F350 daily and well Diesel seams to be in my blood!

Steam would be really cool, particularly if you heated it with pellets.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Jeff, 

This is why MLS is great where else can you go anytime during the day and learn new idea's, read posts that change subjects and have a lot fun with fellow modelers.


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Rod,
Is the steering wheel in your truck on the right side? (Or is that the wrong side?)









Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Tommy, you Tinker







I'm ambidextrous, whether I am driving in the States or England it's always on the right side







That is, for where I am at the time.
See, forever the diplomat......................
Rod


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Rod Fearnley on 28 Nov 2010 09:30 AM 
Tommy, you Tinker







I'm ambidextrous, whether I am driving in the States or England it's always on the right side







That is, for where I am at the time.
See, forever the diplomat......................
Rod 





I thought you went to the Hospital to be cured of that Ambidextrous suff. They were suppose to amputate your left side. They said you woud be ...........All Right










HE HE HE HE HE HE HE HE HE


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm ambidextrousGod, I love it when you talk technical!!!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 27 Nov 2010 11:44 PM 
(*Whew!) I just now had an epiphany! I know what's going on! We're (collectively) BORED!!! The economy has been in the doldrums and not much new LS has shown up. It's almost a kind of "cabin fever" where we're starting to get on each other's nerves (hence the atrocious behavior of some whom I would never have guessed would do so!) This would also explain the dogpiling on a guy that well, probably had it coming but that's beside the point! He made one post that said in essence "Goodbye" and then the thread came alive with recriminations! (Yes, 67 posts in a 34 hr period as a total count may be a record but what did it _really_ accomplish?) WE'RE BORED, WE'RE MAD AS **** AND WE AREN'T GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!!! (or some such expression...) As to how to fix it? Don't have a clue! (I just have the epiphanies. I don't do the miracles!)








I haven't been around much, but I've seen the same thing on other forums, membership shrinking, people losing interest, going away, and well, I agree with you. I've been laid off from 3 different jobs in two years. It's almost impossible to find one, and it's not getting much easier. I'm afraid to buy anything, because what happens if I get laid off again, or if I show up and the door's locked at work? I hate to be discouraged, but it's hard not to. I just bought a K-27, something I've been wishing for since they came out, by selling a bunch of stuff off on Ebay, from another hobby, and seriously, I went back and forth over the decision at least 100 times, and it still kind of sends a shiver up my spine when I see the box, or take it out to run her. Did I make the right decision? Should I have kept the money in the bank, just in case? 

I guess it's just kinda scary right now, you know? And then, I think, well, worst case, I can sell it, but then, will there be a market for it? I dunno? I want to make some modifications to it, and make it mine, and unique, but again, what if?

Just my two cents...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 28 Nov 2010 06:36 AM 
Posted By eheading on 28 Nov 2010 06:14 AM 
Gee, Stan, some of us "battery guys" are so gung ho, we even drive cars that run on batteries some of the time!!!!!

Ed
Yes, ED.... Tech-in-ology has come a long, long way.... It will certainly be interesting to see what the future holds. 


Rod, thanks for the comments with the post about your "Truck". Ours has the 3.8 V6 and it does a great job coming up the hills out of Phoenix headed back to Dewey. Don't have a tow package on it though. 

Sempro.... That really was a very bad slip of the tongue. I should have said it has all the "bells, HORNS and buttons."



















J. C. Whitney (mail order car parts) used to sell a small box with 4 pushbuttons and outdoor speaker for your car that sounded 4 RR sounds. Two -- a Steam Locomotive "chugging" sound and a Diesel Locomotive "idling" sound -- were almost identical and were completely non-realistic. The 3rd was a "bell" sound and was not too bad. The 4th was a "steam whistle" sound that was just two short identical toots that were completely lifeless.

None of them were nearly loud enough, but it was fun "blowing the whistle" when driving through construction zones and watching the reaction of some of the workers.

The best time was when I saw a young couple out walking a very small child. The man had hold of the child's hand, stopped at a RR crossing. The man was bent over at the waist and stooped down at the knees over the child and was pointing up and down the RR tracks, obviously imparting some safety instructions to the child about RR's.

Right when I got to the crossing I pressed the Whistle button to give the two utterly lifeless and weak whistles toots.

The man stood up so fast he nearly jerked the arm off the child, his head swiveling back and forth looking up and down the tracks.

In my rear-view mirror I could see the young woman clutching her side with one arm and pointing at me with the other, and laughing so hard she nearly fell down! The man's face will shear dissappointment. I don't think the child had any idea what had happened.

Unfortunately, I blew it so often on a trip one time that it let all the magic smoke out of the output transistor (whew -- stink!) and I haven't seen a replacement for sale since.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm, horns...just do what I do, every new car I buy gets a 1980s-1990s Mercedes horn. 

I do miss from my college days my big Citroens with town-country horns, with the country horns being true air (compressor and all) horns. Scared the snot of more than a few with those.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Funny, you should mention horns and whistles... I was endur...er.._attending _my wife's family reunion this past Thanksgiving weekend and I got into a conversation with my wife's third cousin's husband? (I think that's right...) Anyway, he's a trucker and he was able to acquire an old 3 chime whistle off of some steam engine that he managed to make work on his truck. He said he doesn't use it too much due to the amount of air pressure that he loses each time he blows the whistle (something like 40psi.)


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 28 Nov 2010 02:05 PM 
Funny, you should mention horns and whistles... I was endur...er.._attending _my wife's family reunion this past Thanksgiving weekend and I got into a conversation with my wife's third cousin's husband? (I think that's right...) Anyway, he's a trucker and he was able to acquire an old 3 chime whistle off of some steam engine that he managed to make work on his truck. He said he doesn't use it too much due to the amount of air pressure that he loses each time he blows the whistle (something like 40psi.)


Yes, it is not necessarily pressure that makes a whistle work; even just lung pressure can make one sound off. But they take tremendous volumes of air/steam to operate and lungs do not have enough capacity to produce more than a split second of sound.

Need large pipes to get the quantity of gas to them, too.

I have a 5 tube exhaust whistle I tried to fit to a 4-cylinder car and it sounded TERRIBLE due to so few cylinders "pulsing" the whistle. I suppose it would sound better on a V-8 or at least an engine that is running faster than just at idle, which is all I ever got a chance to do.

I have a small air pump for running a cheap set of add-on air horns. It can create lots of pressure (200-250psi) and runs the air horns just fine, but it cannot produce enough volume (capacity/quantity of air) to make any but the smallest of my whistles work at all. I have a 5gal air-pig (tank) that at 80-psi at start can sound a single chime whistle for just less than 3 seconds before it is empty, and the last second or so is pretty anemic.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 28 Nov 2010 01:21 PM 
I do miss from my college days my big Citroens with town-country horns, with the country horns being true air (compressor and all) horns. Scared the snot of more than a few with those. Ah...... Yes. I had the priviledge of driving a big Citroen for a year while in Belgium in 82-83. What a wonderful automobile!!!!!. Driving on the Continent was great. Crossing over the Channel to the UK for the first time and driving it at night was a [/b]REAL experience.[/b] Coming off the ferry at Dover, then driving into London and doing roundabouts. Oh my.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 28 Nov 2010 03:09 PM 
Posted By Spule 4 on 28 Nov 2010 01:21 PM 
I do miss from my college days my big Citroens with town-country horns, with the country horns being true air (compressor and all) horns. Scared the snot of more than a few with those. Ah...... Yes. I had the priviledge of driving a big Citroen for a year while in Belgium in 82-83. What a wonderful automobile!!!!!. Driving on the Continent was great. Crossing over the Channel to the UK for the first time and driving it at night was a [/b]REAL experience.[/b] Coming off the ferry at Dover, then driving into London and doing roundabouts. Oh my.











Yes, a lot of fond memories for me too. And honestly, of all the cars the ones I have owned, the most indefatigable, especially going faster than anyone should on two lane highways. They did get a bit warm in the inside during the summer tho!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

As Murphy shared about his job situation, the site needs to stay free to encourage those like him. 
But for many of us who are busy and have work and use the site daily, then support is good.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I can proudly state that my very first car was a light fifteen. 
Then I got lucky and my dad handed his Brit built Big 6. He had bought another one. 
They went like shells. At one stage I believe our Victorian Police used them as pursuit cars. 
Unfortunately I didn't show wither of them the respect they deserved basically running them into the ground. 
Again unfortunately, I traded the Big 6 in a few years later for a Mini Cooper. Which I also ran into the ground. 

As to horns on the Citroen's. I didn't have airs. Just the sickly little tooter. 

Now my current car, a long wheelbase 1976 Ford LTD, has a magnificent 3 chime set up. They sure make people sit up and take notice. 

Oh!!! and by the way, I support MLS with a paid membership and shortly by renewed RCS banner advertising. Shad should have the new artwork by now.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Want train horns? 

http://trainhorns.net/ 

Um, no, that's not spam, just a site I happened to know about...


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 29 Nov 2010 05:35 AM 
I can proudly state that my very first car was a light fifteen. 
Then I got lucky and my dad handed his Brit built Big 6. He had bought another one. 
They went like shells. At one stage I believe our Victorian Police used them as pursuit cars. 
Unfortunately I didn't show wither of them the respect they deserved basically running them into the ground. 
Again unfortunately, I traded the Big 6 in a few years later for a Mini Cooper. Which I also ran into the ground. 

As to horns on the Citroen's. I didn't have airs. Just the sickly little tooter. 

Now my current car, a long wheelbase 1976 Ford LTD, has a magnificent 3 chime set up. They sure make people sit up and take notice. 

Oh!!! and by the way, I support MLS with a paid membership and shortly by renewed RCS banner advertising. Shad should have the new artwork by now. 

Oz, one other place that likes big engine cars and taking cars at speed. You all also got some Stude Lark police cars too. R1/R2 spec if memory serves, Ford was not the only one to give us 289s. 

And those Oz model LTDs are sharp cars too.

What this has to do with large scale choo choos? I sold my Citroens and Mercs to get back into trains!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been with this forum almost from the beginning. MLS has undoubtedly cost me a bundle because through its members I was encouraged to continue on with a model railroad system I had already completed about the time MLS came into existence. But I don't regret that at all. It has been a great run. 

Of all the online options for large-scale model railroaders, MLS is by far the best one because there is so much activity that there is something going on here for anyone in any aspect of the large-scale model railroad hobby. Sometimes these threads become just a bit tangled and mangled , but that is part of the charm of it all. One just has to learn to go with that flow.


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll freely admit that I haven't been as active on here in recent months as I once was. Lots of reasons for that, most recently is because my RR is now under 14" of snow.. 

That being said, this is a wonderful and amazing community of people. I have had the great fortune to meet many of you face to face and develop "online friendships" that I know will last. Two of you in particular I plan on meeting face to face in the coming year. 

This site is an invaluable resource not only for beginners but seasoned garden railroaders as well. As Martys stated, support MLS to assure it's continued availability for us all.. 

DF


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

This has been the best inspiration & resource I've found in one spot on the Interwebs. Life has kind of overtaken my family & I, as we had to downsize just when I was preparing to lay track in our previous home. But now things have worked out for the better, as we have a MUCH larger yard and much greater potential for our (future) outdoor railroad. 

But all along, nobody has said anything derogatory about our lack of a completed layout, for which I am grateful. We'll get there someday. I have never regretted my First Class membership and my wife has never questioned it, even when she was unemployed for nearly a year.


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