# Lionel 0-4-0?



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been looking for a while for a good platform to make a 1:29 scale forney like those that ran on the NYC El at the end of the 19th century. My local rattletrap RR, the Washington and Old Dominion, bought three 0-4-0 Forneys and some coaches from the NYC El and ran them for about ten years, almost into the 1920s.

The Forney's looked like this, from Forney's book on Google Books:










Here's one of a very few photos of one of them on what became the W&OD 











An LGB Stainz would sort of work, but the wheels are too far apart. An aristo 0-4-0 might work. But scanning ebay I saw an old lionel 0-4-0, like this one (but not this exact one) for a good price











It looks to me like it might be a good platform to start from. The wheel spacing and size appears to be about right


I've never seen one of these--what can I expect in terms of running? Will it run/pull as well as a Stainz (no traction tires, I noticed). My only experience with lionel large scale is the old Atlantic, which can be made into a decent puller with some work. How robust is the drive train on these things? Any experiences welcome.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's the lionel


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Hi Lownote, 
One of my first G scale sets came with one of these Lionel 0-4-0s. It was on sale at Toys R Us, whole set for $49, this was about twelve years ago. Well the loco had problems. The worst issue was the plating on the drivers was very coarse and accumulated carbon pits and deposits on the wheels very quickly which cause intermittent running, also the brushes which rub against the drivers for power pickup also quickly deposited carbon build up. There was not much space inside the shell although I did manage to squeeze a on board TE in it (old 27, never work good). I guess if you took just the shell and merged it with a better drive like USAT it would make a nice model. I have seen your work and I have no doubt you will make it work.









Steve


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks very much for the reply--it's the drive that I want. It's hard to find a drive unit that has the right wheel spacing, and spoked wheels. I plan to junk the shell and keep the drive. USAT does not make a spoked wheel drive or a drive where the wheels are as close together as this one.

So the problems you had were with power pickup? That I think I can fix. I'm planning to have it pull two bachmann coaches which I'm lengthening and lowering. So it won't be pulling a really heavy load. And I'll rout power from the coach wheels/trailing truck wheels to the motor


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

If this topic is still open for comment?

Might I suggest an expensive approach? Take an Aristo SD-45/DASH-9/E8 brick, and cut it down to two axles. Then get four Mikado/Mallet drivers and use them for wheels. I'm certain there is sufficient room for the Mike drivers on the 45 brick, and the axle spacing is a bit closer than the 4-wheel brick, though by how much I can't be certain.


I was blessed with a Stainz as my first engine back in '86. When my brother began to show interest in trains my parents went the cheap route and bought him a Lionel starter set... granted at the time they didn't realize how cheap it would be. So I know about this engine. While it looks like it would be good kitbash fodder but the honest truth is that it isn't useful for anything, at least not anything I can think of. The drivers on this thing are (at memory's recall) in between the diameter of the Aristo Mike and Pacific... and I'd guess closer to the pacific. the drive train was pretty much crap... it didn't take long before my brother's unit began grinding its gears. And he only hauled the original flatcar and bobber caboose with his engine.


When he got into go-carts and such he sold me his set for cheap, and the only thing I managed to salvage was the caboose for bashing into a steel-clad rebuilt Russel plow.


My suggestion on the Aristo blocks will give you larger drivers than the stainz, and probably a bit farther apart than you want, but it will have the abilities of the SD-45 brick, albeit with limited tractive effort.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That is better solution, but very expensive. I don't expect to ask this thing to haul much, but you might be right that it will just self destruct. I thought I might try putting a booster drive brick in the trailing truck, and run them both via DCC so they can be speed matched. But that's pricey too. I started out thinking I would convert a Stainz into a forney, and I still might, even if the wheel spacing is way off 

Aristo claimed a while back that when the new Consolidation came out, they would make flanged drivers available--the new Consol, is supposed to have two unflanged drivers in the center. If they have those for sale, it might be a good idea--right now I don't believe you can get the wheels without buying the whole brick. 

Good idea!


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## jonathanj (Jan 24, 2008)

Posted By jgallaway81 on 02 Aug 2010 12:46 PM 
>If this topic is still open for comment?

>Might I suggest an expensive approach? Take an Aristo SD-45/DASH-9/E8 brick, and cut it down to two axles. Then get four Mikado/Mallet drivers and >use them for wheels. I'm certain there is sufficient room for the Mike drivers on the 45 brick, and the axle spacing is a bit closer than the >4-wheel brick, though by how much I can't be certain.


You can and it works - I've tried it as a mock on an SD45 brick (think the E8 is longer?) and it worked fine, though the gearing ratio was reduced. Axle spacing on the brick is about 72mm+72mm, say 2-7/8"+2-7/8" 


J.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a couple of these Lionel 0-4-0 locos. 

They do have a fair amount of pulling power - I've had the one pulling a ten car string with no real problems on level terrain; and they can pull three or four cars up a 4% grade. 

Main complaint is that wheels get dirty in a hurry; I seldom run them for more than a half hour at a stretch because the wheel grit builds up to the point where they begin to 'hesitate'. 

From time to time, I've wondered about converting them to battery power...though I don't believe there is a lot of room inside the shell.


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Lownote: Had another thought... you have the lionel unit already presumably.

How about looking at his a different way... let the drivers free-roll and use a power brick (like from the Aristo centercab/classic railbus) as the trailing truck. GThen really load the bunker down with as much weight as possible, and load the rest of the shell with the batteries, controller, etc. Just enough weight to keep the drivers on the rails. 

In this scenario, you'd be able to use the drivers you intended, get better pulling power, and would forgo any of the inherant limitations with the original lionel drive train. The lead drivers would end up giving you a 4-4-0 wheel arrangement in that he drivers would help steer the engine into the curves that the truck was motoring through.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's an interesting idea too! Thank you--hat could work. I had planned to get around the power pickup issue with either a "pusher" block in the trailing truck, or ball bearing wheels, and maybe add sliders to the engine. 

It has not arrived yet, as I'll evaluate it when it gets here.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike,

A few years back, a guy used the trucks off a USAT 44 tonner to power his Big Hauler. You might also consider that motorblock for your trailing truck.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It came today--the wheels are 2 inches at the rim,which makes them about 1/4 too big. But the gearing is the same as the lionel atlantic--the motor is smaller, but the gears are the same level of robustness, which is good. I had time to upgrade the power pickups to LGB plungers. We'll see!


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