# transformers



## Caird (Dec 5, 2012)

need information on larger transforers, brans and where to purchase


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

how big do you need?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

What are you planing to run; one, two, three or more engines at a time? One motor engines or two motor? Do you want smoke, lighted cars? A little more help from you will help. Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Also this question comes up all the time, you might want to read the beginners forum to learn a bit... many Frequently Asked Questions are answered here. 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Caird mentioned brains, I assume he may be asking about control. Again more help as does he just want to control track power, or have individual engine/train control. 

AND I ASSUME track power or he would not have opened this discussion with transformers!!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*http://www.mylargescale....trong>*


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Dan, me thinks a typo and wanted 'brands'...... 
JC


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## Caird (Dec 5, 2012)

Okay, so now I feel silly about typo, thanks. Require information in regards to running two engines on same track. currently have a 1 amp transformer. engines run for about ten minutes then stops (overheating?), starts up again in 10 minutes, runs for 10 then stops.... so we are not going to use it until I resolve the issue. Was told it might need a 6 amp output transformer vs the 1amp, but would like second opinon. Thanks all for the replys.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My opinion and that of several others is on the link I posted above... please read that one. 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want to run anything other than a starter set without smoke, and lights, you need a minimum of 5 amps. My recommendation is a power supply with a minimum of 10 amps and 22volts. Bridgewerks and MRC make good units.

Chuck

PS when you mentioned bran, all thought of was Post and Kellogg, as far as I know neither makes a power supply. In a strict interpretation, a transformer is for AC power (for example Lionel). Our trains need a DC power supply. A power supply unit reduces the voltage (transformer) and then converts it to DC. We do get cheeky at times, but there is a lot of good information available here.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Caird on 06 Dec 2012 03:20 PM 
Okay, so now I feel silly about typo, thanks. Require information in regards to running two engines on same track. currently have a 1 amp transformer. engines run for about ten minutes then stops (overheating?), starts up again in 10 minutes, runs for 10 then stops.... so we are not going to use it until I resolve the issue. Was told it might need a 6 amp output transformer vs the 1amp, but would like second opinon. Thanks all for the replys.


While more amps is typically better, and necessary for lots of engines and lighted railcars, your next step up doesn't have to be that drastic if you just want to run two engines and lit cabeese.

An MRC 6200 would be the next step up and will provide over 3 amps, which is enough for most people starting out. In the future if you need to upgrade, these are great to have for back-up and on the workbench for testing stuff and cleaning wheels.

Update:

Wow! I just looked on ebay and hadn't realized these things had gotten so $$$! Used to be able to pick them up used for $25-$50 all day.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd, I had a MRC 6200 and the 60 va is pretty misleading.... It would not run my LGB track cleaning loco by itself... under 2 amps at full voltage... marginal for most anything but LGB or small locos. 

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06 Dec 2012 08:58 PM 
Todd, I had a MRC 6200 and the 60 va is pretty misleading.... It would not run my LGB track cleaning loco by itself... under 2 amps at full voltage... marginal for most anything but LGB or small locos. 

Greg 

On the other hand, mine will run my 4.47 amp Johnson hand tool motor, fan powered engine, though not to full speed. But, the Blue Hogger would not run it at all and it was rated much higher.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

the blue hogger was rated higher but was only good for about 3 amps 


the 6200 was ok but no longer made


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not to be argumentative, but striving to help not confuse the beginners: (because I KNOW you understand this Todd) 

You have a hand tool that can take a MAXIMUM of 4.47 amps. 

It CAN run at a lower amperage... so the ability to use it somewhat does NOT imply that the 6200 will put out 4.47 amps. 

This is the danger of VA rating... to a beginner, VA seems to imply that the product of the volts and amps will always be 60 in this case... so at 10 volts you would get 6 amps (10 volts times 6 amps) 

But the reality is that volts times amps only equals 60 at certain "combinations"... 

In our hobby, as the volts go up to a loco, the amps usually also go up, i.e. going faster draws more current. 

Just trying to forewarn beginners of this situation. 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Gentlemen, please remember the forum rules about courtesy towards all forum members... 

(mod hat off) 

If you're on a budget, get yourself a Meanwell 24-volt, 10-amp power supply and a Crest (Aristo-Craft) throttle regulator. That's probably going to be among the cheapest options out there. You can hook two or three different regulators to the output of the Meanwell, and so long as the three locos combined don't draw 10 amps, you should be good. Otherwise, the Bridgewerks units mentioned above are great (some would call them the top-of-the-line), and MRC makes a large 10-amp power supply that has received praise from its users as well. 

Good luck! 

Later, 

K


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07 Dec 2012 09:57 AM 
Not to be argumentative, but striving to help not confuse the beginners: (because I KNOW you understand this Todd) 

You have a hand tool that can take a MAXIMUM of 4.47 amps. 

It CAN run at a lower amperage... so the ability to use it somewhat does NOT imply that the 6200 will put out 4.47 amps. 

This is the danger of VA rating... to a beginner, VA seems to imply that the product of the volts and amps will always be 60 in this case... so at 10 volts you would get 6 amps (10 volts times 6 amps) 

But the reality is that volts times amps only equals 60 at certain "combinations"... 

In our hobby, as the volts go up to a loco, the amps usually also go up, i.e. going faster draws more current. 

Just trying to forewarn beginners of this situation. 

Regards, Greg 
I am not saying it will put out 4.47 amps, (but it sure can)! What I am saying is that it can drive "difficult" loads that other transformers with higher ratings just can't handle at any voltage. 
BTW, I just connected my hand-tool, fan-powered engine up to a 12 volt battery and from that source, my meter shows that it draws 9.25 amps! If you get your finger in there, this thing WILL bite you!



Greg, are you sure than on the MRC that you tested both FETs were working? It is not uncommon for one or both of these to burn out in a closed position (full voltage all the time and this happened to me), or open (half the current capacity).

Here you can see it running at ~70% of throttle at over 5 amps! Like I said, these are work horses!


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

first off like i said ..... the mrc 6200 is no longer made 

and i am amazed you got a reading like that ..... i sold lots of these and long use over 3 amps burned them out


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Piko also makes a nice 5A power pack and throttle, plus if you want you can use it wirelessly with the Piko navigator and then if you want to convert to DCC someday all you need to add to it is the central station. 

Keith


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

took a look at the website 

looks good ...... 24 volt 5 amp .... simple and 200 dollars


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Brand new it would not put out 2 amps at higher voltage. 

Show me that picture again with the volts, I think you will prove the point I have been trying to make. (you don't have to take a picture, just measure the volts) 

From brand new out of the box it would not run the LGB track cleaning loco. It's now owned by Ray Dunakin and as far as I know it's still working fine - for what it is. 

Again, the point is that VA is a misleading spec for us because the speed of the loco is dependent on the voltage, not the amps. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Soon after the 6200 came out a certain well known dealer in the SF Valley had a few modified for some extra grunt. Perhaps Todd got one of those. I don't know what the mods were.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

i did the same thing to some blue hoggers ......... added a fan and a better heat sink and some holes in the case for cooling ..

I take one of my changed blue hogger to shows ... it has done well for years and years


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

i have not tested one but sold a few before closeing 

the latest from usa trains is a revamp of the hogger .... but i will tell you this thing weighs a lot ... whole lot more then a hogger 


it is priced well and i had no complants 


http://www.charlesro.com/store/merc...gory_Code=


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

The va rating seems to be confusing, i understand that 60 va would mean at maximum output of lets say 20 volts the unit would deliver 3 amp current?
Ie 60 watts of power?
the 3 ams would then be the max current output ( constant) and the voltage is controlled by our throttle....
Would an amprating and maximum output in watt not be more sensible?
It seems va is just a renaming of the generally used description watt....
Regards michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, that was exactly my point... at SOME particular voltage, the voltage times the amps is 60.... that's ALL you are guaranteed. 

So you CANNOT pick a voltage and assume that the amps is 60 divided by the volts, ESPECIALLY at maximou um voltage. 

There's the rub. Read what I wrote before again... I did write it as clearly as I could... 

Yes, all "better" units rate max voltage and max amps. VA is kind of renaming watts but really a pretty worthless rating. 

As I stated before, in our hobby we are normally interested in the amps the pack can sustain AT all voltages, or more importantly higher voltages. 

If Todd repeats his test above with the 4.2 amp draw, you will see it's not at 24 or 20 or any higher voltage... the voltage will drop significantly under load, and the speed of our locos is determined by VOLTAGE, not current. 

Hope I did a better job explaining this time. 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought the VA rating was similiar to watts and that is what the power pack gets from the power company (input power). 
Now take away the efficiency of the transformer and circuits (even the fans power if present) and your train gets what is left. 

So, the train can not get the full VA rating as other things are taking power and if there is an A/C output with a load, even less power available!!


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Short answer:

*Volt Ampere (VA)* = Apparent Power
_Volt-amps represents the capacity of the transformer core and wiring_. The transformer is rated in volt-amps rather than watts because the current can be out of phase with the voltage and the power transferred can be much less than the product of volts and amps, but the transformer can't transmit any more without saturating or overheating.

*Watts* = True Power
What the transformer is actually providing (i.e. amperes @ specific voltage) at any given point based upon the calculations using the actual parameters of a given load.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Watts is not what the power pack delivers, it is what the power pack draws from the input power line. Transformers create eddy currents which creates heat in the core, thus a loss of energy!! A fuse has a slight resistance and creates another power loss. 
The loss mentioned here can be small as in the fuse, or more than 5 per cent as in the transformer core. And there is the diode bridge as diodes have resistance and hcreate more loss. This is power that does not get to the track but is part of the transformer/power pack watts rating.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

If I 'm not mistaken, a power supply can not provide more than it consumes, regardless of how that is distributed internally and externally to its load, and that would be ideally into a purely resistive load without any reactance, thus keeping the voltage and current in phase.

If the VA and watt rating of a power supply are equal that would be reflected in a Power Factor rating of 1, i.e. a VA of 60 would equal 60 watts. Even modern day switched-mode power supplies (i.e. capacitor input) have Power Factors of anywhere between .55 & .75 (usually discounted at .6) unless they are of the newer still, Power Factor Corrected variety (i.e. PF rated at .99 to 1.0).

So for example, if you have a power supply that has a VA rating of 60, but it also has a Power Factor of 0.5. That means that the true power max consumption would be 30 watts, so it can't supply more than 30 watts.

And in my opinion that is where problems arise, because while the VA is provided the Power Factor and/or the watt rating of power supplies are not usually provided, so a proper evaluation of the fitness of a particular power supply to a given task cannot be made.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Watts is watts. You can measure the watts drawn from the 110v line, or the watts provided to your track. 

Most ratings you see are on the input side, i.e. max power consumed from your house wiring. 

Bottom line, VA does not give us the information we need to know clearly how the power pack will perform under heavy load. 

Greg


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## Don Trinko (Nov 9, 2012)

most industrial motors do not have a power factor of 1 and are inductive thus "VA" has some meaning. I'm guessing that our train motors ( especially the AC ones) are inductive also. 
Good point abought voltage and max current not necessarily the way you want them. I have a 100mw hogger; Yes it does put out 5 amps, at 5 volts,(5 volts 5 amps = 25 VA) At higher voltages it does not put out near as much current. (15 volts/1 amp= 15 VA) Don


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

So just to get my head around this... 
A transformer rated 5 amp does supply constant 5 amp to the track with a varying voltage depending on the throttle setting? 
Regards michael


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael: A 5 amp power supply will only put out only the power needed up to a maximum of 5 amps. If you have a train that requires only 1 amp that is all that it puts out. I believe that the amp rating is for the components. If you exceed that rating you will damage the unit if it is not protected by a fuse or circuit breaker. Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, you are getting confused. 

A transformer rated in VA will not give the same amps at all volts. 

A transformer rated in amps and volts typically will. 

So the MRC 6200 is advertised as 60 VA... the max current will vary (and become less) as you increase the voltage. Not good for trains, because a train's speed is controlled by voltage 

The MRC "Power G" is advertised as 10 amps.... it will put out 10 amps up to it's maximum voltage. 

This is as clear as I can make it. 

Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

I think it is time to take things back to basics... 

There are (normally) THREE types of transformer. These are commonly referred to as E+I, Toroidal, and "C" core. Each one has its own pluses and minuses. 
By far the most common is the E+I type which have grain orientated Silicon Steel laminations. One of the problems with this type is that they lose flux at the "corners" of the Es and Is and thus the transfer of power. They are rated at 85%. 
The Toroidal type is more efficient but is by far the hardest to build. Normally these have "clock spring" laminations and the laminations are then bonded together. The torus then sawn in half and the pre-wound coils slid on to the torus and the two halves bonded together to complete the magnetic circuit. The transfer of power is superb -but the one problem you do have is mounting the toroid in such a manner that you do not produce an external loop that the flux transfers into producing in effect a perfect short circuit... Another major hazard in their use is the "cold rush" current as the torus "energises" which can be 1.6 to 1.9 times the normal draw from the AC mains feed. They are rated at 93%. 
"C" core transformers have bent steel foil laminations with rounded corners hence they do not lose flux as in an E+I core transformer. They are normally expensively hand made... That are rated at 97%. 

If you take the idea that the VA rating of the transformer is the amount of waste heat from the power transfer that the INSULATION of the winding can take -then you begin to see some of the variations required. 

In the centre of each transformer is fusable one shot link. This "blows" at 180 degrees Centigrade. The transformer is now scrap. 

If you look at the VA rating of the transformer you will now see that it could be increased by either cooling the core or altering the shape of the core. 

A far better idea would be to use the JOULE rating of the finished smoothed DC supply than the VA rating of the transformer. The Joule rating of the supply is found by multiplying the storage capacitance in Farads by the Voltage and (Voltage divided by 2). 

If I take apart my sons Hornby train supply I find the following: 20,000uF x 18V x (18V / 2 ) which is 3.24 Joules. Since the SI definition of a Joule works out as one Watt per second... 

This gives him a working current of 3.24 / 18 = 0.18 Amperes. Which is sufficient to move his OO "Javelin" and "Virgin 125 set" around his track. 

Given the figures above and reversing through the maths -we get the following: 

10 Amperes at a supply of 24 Volts = 240 Joules 
Farads x 24 x (24 / 2 ) = 240 Joules 
Farads = 0.8333R Which for ease I will call 0.84 Farads (!) 

Rectification Voltage DC = Root 2 x Supply Voltage AC 

24 Volts DC = 1.414 x 21.03 Volts AC 

So, it looks like we are looking for a transformer with a VA rating of 210VA -but we are not.... 
In an E+I transformer we would be looking for 210 x 100 / 85% = 247VA 
In a Toroidal transformer we would be looking for 210 x 100 / 93% = 226VA 
In a "C" core transformer we would be looking for 210 x 100 / 97% = 216.5VA 

I have ignored a lot of things like the fact that as transformer get larger the % power rating increases and I have ignored rectification and smoothing losses etc. 
But hopefully you will have gleaned some information from the above. 

regards 

ralph


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Mhh ok now it makes a bit more sense. i think i will wire a voltmeter and an ampmeter into ,my throttle so i can see the actual output. This way i can run my trains at least over christmas and then i can start on the dcc decoder.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael, if or when you are in the market for a new power supply, some come with volt and amp meters. I think that it is a good idea to be able to monitor the amps and voltage. They are a little more expensive, but I think they are worth it. Chuck


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

No woories there the local jayco sells lab spec varibale power supplys with volt and amp meters for around 250 bucks.
I found the blueprint for an 5 amp throttle online, i just want to add an overload protection and fuse into the throttle as well as a volt and an amp meter... So i can see what the powet supply spits out and what the throttle supplies to the track....
Once i moved in a year or two iwill upgrade to dcc, somebody send me a link to a uk page who sell kits for dcc control for about 200 bucks.
Till then i will run analog and get more locs and rolling stock and track....
Regards michael


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

MERG are here: 

http://www.merg.org.uk/kits.php 

You have to join in order to get the kits but the cost of membership is normally returned after the savings made by purchasing 2 or more kits.... 

regards 

ralph


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Ralph, looking at the MERG site I see 15 volts and 2 amps. Is there a unit that will do more than 8 amps at 24 volts?


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

*No.* 

However you could stack FOUR 771 boards (2+2) and give yourself a PSU rated to 12 Amperes at 30 Volts. Which in itself is not a bad idea. You would purchase and populate FIVE boards and then have a spare board to slot in incase of failure. You would have to build or obtain a case to hold this collection of PCBs. What I am not sure about is the US Mains supply system? Here in the UK we have domestic 230 Volts AC 13 Ampere supplies on mainland Europe this is increased to 19 Amperes. I am not sure about how much "drop" your domestic supply board will take before it starts blowing fuses or tripping Circuit breakers(?) 

The MERG kits are well designed and very sturdy however I would recommend that you buy the best quality solder and a new temperature controlled iron (or bit) before assembling one of them. 

regards 

ralph


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Thank you very much Ralph, MERG was the one i finally choose, thank you very much also for the multiple board suggestion, i need a transformer that can handle 12 amp at 30 volts then...I have not joined yet so i did not have all the details.
Kind regards


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I missed something, why do you want 30 volts? 

Certainly you are not running trains with it? 

Greg


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

No i am not putting 30 volts onto my train track, thats just the transformer spec, i can adjust voltage and amperage, but the only model with a high enough output goes up to 30 volt but it can be adjusted at the power supply...
Regards michael

( in saying so there is that bullet train idea...)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Michael, when running heavy loads (which you must be since you want a lot of amps), a regulated DC supply works best, i.e. the number of trains running and their loads will not affect the other trains. 

This is where our terminology really needs to depart from the simple description of "transformer" 

A power supply that consists merely of a "normal" transformer (covering my bases with Ralph, no autotransformers allowed here!) will have an output voltage that will change with load, and it can change a lot if you are running near rated maximum current. 

In a "train transformer" most people have a transformer, rectifier (change to DC), electrolytic capacitor (filters the pulsating DC from the rectifier) and then some circuit to vary the output voltage, from a simple rheostat/potentiometer, to switching circuits to pulse width modulation. 

All of this said, the output voltage will drop under load... in a simple situation a person normally just is running one loco and just gives more throttle... like a car going up hill, you push the gas down more to maintain speed. 

But I recommend a regulated power supply, and there's a ton of reasons. Many lights and electronics will burn out at voltages over 24 volts. DCC is specified as max of 24 volts. 

Another example of danger is say you are running 3 trains from a 10 amp supply that is a simple transformer... and you are using your 30 volt transformer and all of a sudden, 2 of the 3 trains hit a "broken" part of powered track. Let's assume you are running them near max voltage, like 24 volts. 

The output voltage will not shoot up way over 24 volts because of the sudden decrease in load. You might pop some lights or electronics. 

This has happened, a very well respected "transformer" and "throttle" supplier has systems that will deliver pretty darn high voltage when the load is very light, even though under load they are at the desired voltage. That caused burned out bulbs in passenger cars and some damaged electronics. That manufacturer now does not support using their supplies for DCC for example. 

So, when you get up in high amperage, multiple trains, and running near max voltage our trains can take, I cannot stress enough that you should consider a regulated power supply. 

I use a Meanwell 11 amp, 27 volt supply. After the voltage drop from my DCC booster, it puts 23.8 to 23.9 volts to the rails, basically right at the DCC maximum. 

Hope this helps. 

Greg


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

"Meanwell 24-volt, 10-amp power supply"

Is that a build-your-own power supply? Then you just hook up a compatible throttle? I'm trying to understand this power supply/transformer thing. My Piko 1amp transformer/throttle can't run my LGB Mogul around the truck, much. It is very slow and just plain stops after a while.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Meanwell is a brand name... google it, you'll find information. 
i'm afraid that we/I may have drifted from the original question by the OP and am really sort of tapped out writing on this thread. 

Might want to read some beginners books about power, throttle, DC filtering, etc. 

Short answer: power supply then connect to throttle then to DC loco. 

Greg


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Ok, just to quickly pacify some concerned people, no i am not putting 30 volts onto my track, i was just poking fun... My apologies if that was misunderstood. I have got an variable volt power supply that supplies 4.5 amp at 18 V. I have throttle build plan which u can find here: 
www.awrr.com./throtl_ hi.html 
Please note this is not designed by me i just downloaded it. 
Today i bought the components for a total of 150 bucks including power supply. I will add further components such as an voltmeter an ampmeter and an overload warning circuit as well as a resettable fuse link. 
I want to get my soldering skills back up to scrach before i start the merg dcc kits... Which is a bit in the future anyway due to the fact that i only own 2 locos at this stage and barly enough track to put my 6 carriges on.... I will spend funds on track locos and rolling stock first as i want to play with the trains as well as learn about things like electronics and cad design to 3 d print my own loco parts. 
I am aware that this is a lot to learn and i also know that i can buy ready to run systems but for me it is just as much about learning the skills required for those projects as it is about the trains itself. Hence i will continue to asked plenty of questions here and hope people continue to be as forthcoming with information and help as they have been in the past. Kind regards 
Michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I used to love buying kits and assembling. 

New stuff is surface mount and microprocessor driven... so will be buying built up stuff. The MERG stuff looks ok, but simple... more sophisticated DCC stuff has more smarts, even in the booster/circuit breaker... smart interpretation to distinguish between inrush current for caps in decoders vs. real short. 

Greg


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

Can I use this: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...osed_Panel_Mount_(RHINO_PSS_Series)/PSS12-100 with an appropriate controller, like the Aristo-Craft 5401? I'm trying to find out how to build my own power supply. The 1amp Piko isn't enough...... 

Thanks.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, voltage too low... it's 12 volts. Shoot for 24 volts.

You won't be able to build a power supply of the same quality, regulation, and overvoltage protection for less than you can buy it already made.

Get a Meanwell, from J&R electronics.

Greg


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks, Greg. Being rather new to this power supply thing (I've just used the supplied transformer in the past) I'm trying to absorb what you guys already know. That said, I would need a Meanwell SP-320-24 with an appropriate controller such as the Astro-Craft 55401, is that correct. I'm sorry if this has been covered but I got lost with all the "electrician" talk.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By ezaircon4jc on 26 Dec 2012 08:22 PM 
Thanks, Greg. Being rather new to this power supply thing (I've just used the supplied transformer in the past) I'm trying to absorb what you guys already know. That said, I would need a Meanwell SP-320-24 with an appropriate controller such as the Astro-Craft 55401, is that correct. I'm sorry if this has been covered but I got lost with all the "electrician" talk. 

If you want a MeanWell, ebay is the place to get it. I got three brand new S-320-24s for $50.01 and $17.12 for shipping for the whole lot a couple months ago.


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

I found one or two, I just need to know what I need as a controller/throttle.


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

OK, here's what I'm getting. A Meanwell SP-320-24 power supply and an Aristo-Craft 5401 controller. I believe at 10amps that should supply my needs for a while.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, right model number. If you can't find Todd's deal, then J&R had good prices, but Google is your friend. 

Greg


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

Thanks. I got the Meanwell for ~$44 shipped off ebay. Still working on the throttle....


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

So, I scored the Meanwell for $42.35 and a new (from Aristo-Crafts web site) CRE-55401 (Aristo 5401) for $70.90 delivered. I'm thinking that $113.25 isn't half bad! It's definitely cheaper than most of the used stuff on ebay.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great! Good to add a fuse in the output to the track.. start with a 5 volt automotive fuse. 

Enjoy! 

Greg


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

THANKS!!!! I think I may even have one of those laying around.......


So, you're in San Diego? Me too, north county....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you need a fuse holder, pick one up at Pep Boys. 

Carlsbad, Poinsettia offramp from the 5... where in N. County are you? 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg stated Great! Good to add a fuse in the output to the track.. start with a 5 volt automotive fuse. 

I know you are an electronics whiz, but where the heck did you ever find a 5 volt fuse!!!! And for cars that have 12 volt systems!!!! HE HE HE we all make mistakes!!!!


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm pretty sure he meant 5 amp. Its easy to make mistakes typing on the computer, i do it all the time. Good dig though. 
The Roundhouse RnR


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

San Marcos... Shank the 3rd hole at the Twin Oaks Golf Course, clear the row of houses (or bounce the ball of the roof) and you hit mine!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You will have to drop by sometime... Although we might wind up installing a DCC decode ha ha! 

You can bring your clubs, I'm on the (Aviara) golf course too. Found a few balls near the back fence... 

email me... 

Greg


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

So I got the Meanwell with no instructions. Do I hook up the controller with one lead to a +V terminal and one to the -V terminal?


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

That would suit me just fine!!!! I'm always looking to learn new things!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, and be sure to hook up the 110v power correctly.. 

you should have L(ine), N(eutral), GND .... be sure your power cord has black connected to line, white to neutral, and green to ground... proper connections are a good idea. 

Greg


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

Yup. Did that. I tried and tried to find a "how-to" online and found nothing. I then looked at how the house is wired (as you said, grn-gnd, wh-neutral and blk-load) and wired the transformer that way. I still have the 1amp Pico controller so I don't get the full benefit of the unit. I am only getting 12V-16V (I don't have an ammeter yet) at the track. Maybe this is normal, but I get higher voltage between my two connections than I do where the wires connect to the track. 

And you said that with a straight face .


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sound like your controller is limiting the output voltage too... weird... but you will be getting a better controller soon, right? 

Greg


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Ezaircon, i thought you said you scored an aristo controller for around $70 delivered? If something fell through with that, i have one brand new in the box just sitting on a shelf i bought from a hobby shop going under. If your interested.... let me know. Email is MLS account name @gmail.com. 

The Roundhouse RnR


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## ezaircon4jc (Mar 31, 2012)

Got the controller yesterday. After wiring the new plug from Radio Shack backwards I promptly blew the fuse...GRRRRRRR...... Well, a new fuse and correct wiring (I also had to replace a bad smoker) later and this train runs like gangbusters! At full throttle I'm pretty sure I can tip the engine on the curves! I can even get it to creep a little. It still wants almost half-throttle to run, but that's OK. I would assume that's normal with this engine.

I CAN'T thank you guys enough for your help! Especially Greg! What an asset! 

Now I can start planning my outside layout.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If I remember correctly Aristo has wired some controllers backwards with black for positive and red for ground... so don't feel bad! (There's a reason the fuse is there ha ha!)... 

Glad it worked out. You don't know how common this question is and I'm glad you now have a robust and capable system, rather than trying to squeeze performance from underpowered hardware. 

Regards, Greg


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