# Aristocraft Mikado, opinions?



## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

My layout is basically fictitious but based in some fact, encompassing my area of the smoky mountain foothills. I have been modeling stuff from the 30's to 40's near my Johnson City home. I have ET&WNC stuff and Southern RR. Someday I may like to include Clinchfield. I've been considering Aristo's Southern Mikado as something to save up and acquire for my collection.

What are folks impressions of this locomotive model. I've heard some good things overall, that it runs and pulls well. Let me know what you think of it and what upgrades if any are worth the effort. And if anyone can tell me who has the best price on this model that would be appreciated as well.


Thanks,

Scott


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The upside? It's relatively inexpensive, and when it's running right, it pulls really well. 

The Downside? The wheels tend to slip on the axles, leading to jamming of breaking. It happened to me twice. It's a long story--you can see the details on Greg Elmassian's page. It's fixable, but it's an inherent weakness int he design. Aristo claims that the next batch of Mikados, supposedly due in the Spring, won't have the wheel slip problem. I fixed mine myself and I'm confident they are solid. 


The plug and play socket is wired kind of funny. For example, as wired from the factory you can have power from the loco wheels, OR the tender wheels, but not both at the same time. George Schreyer has an easy fix on his page, under the entry for the new Aristo Pacific.


It's virtually identical to the Pacific, aristo just put a different drive on it. That means that while in my opinion it looks good, it does not really match any prototype. Also the level of detail on the model is low compared to, say, Aristo's mallet or the forthcoming Consolidation. 

I ended up cutting mine down and using the frame and drive to make a couple of 2-8-0 consolidations, partly because they fit my pike better:











Now the wheels are on right and they pick up power from both the eight loco wheels and all eight tender wheels, and they run extremely well and pull very strongly.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I know AC is reproducing the Pacific and the Mallet this spring but not see any mention as to when the Mike might be run again. Do the for mention fixes for power pick up and loc tight the screws on the drivers on the first version and your good to go. Mine runs and pulls quite well since making the small corrections to the loco. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with the above, and also add the tender is part of the wiring problem AND also there is no way to power the speaker from the loco (where the socket is) without some minor rewiring. I have this documented on my site. 

Runs well, pulls well, has the typical Aristo problem of slipping drivers on the axles which often destroys rod gear and sometimes gearboxes. If you have power pickup on a wheel, you have to tear it down to the gearbox, but this is the same for all Aristo locos, see "prime mover basics" on my site. With 8 wheels for pickup on the loco, you can lose a few from the circuit and not have it really bad. 

The look of the loco is nice, but not really prototypical, it of course shares it's boiler with the Pacific, many people call it a Pacificado... 

I got mine for $269, and that made it worth it to do the rewiring, and fix the slipping drivers. 

Like all Aristo steamers, they are a good value, but be prepared to work on it to get it reliable. 

Regards, Greg


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

I appreciate the insights. I'll review Greg's website for the story there on the Mikado. It sounds like some initial mods right out of the box is the way to go with it. 
The Aristo Consolidation is the other model I was considering. I will continue to look for reviews on both engines and see if a 'new and improved' Mikado will be run in the future and get other people's impressions before pulling the trigger on either loco. 

Thanks, 

Scott


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Lewis posted on the Aristo Forum that they had fixed the wheel slip problems with the Consolidation, which uses the same drive unit as the Mikado. he didn't say how. Sometimes he's mentioned "the right kind of locktite" as a fix: I'm skeptical that this will work, but wheel slip seems to have been a bigger problem on the mikado than the pacific, so maybe it was a bad run. I'm pretty sure that unless they improve the quality of the machining in the fit of the taper, or key the axles, the problem will continue. 

While I had the thing removed I also used a dremel tool, while the drive was moving, to grind the backs of the wheels/flanges down a little. Out of the box the wheels tend to be too close together, too tight even by the aristo gage


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I've had the aristo mikado for 6 years and agree with the above comments. I had drivers slip on the axles (after I removed all the wheels for painting). It wasn't a big deal, no broken or stripped gears as a result. I have limited this engine to about 20 freight cars for its max on my railroad. Please note that I have heavy grades on my line, your mileage may vary. I bought the Aristo mike to reduce the wear and tear on my LGB mikado. I like the aristo mikado a lot, and am glad I bought one. 

In my experience, it is a good engine and for the $250 I paid for it, was worth the money. The detail is based on late 80s tooling, so it is nowhere near as detailed as say the LGB mikado or the aristo mallet. I have modified mine to include a sound unit. I fit a speaker under the smokebox, where the sound would come from. Like Greg said, it was a choice between running two more wires to the tender for the speaker or fitting the speaker inside the boiler. 

My minor personal pet peeve with all aristo steamers is the wheels. I painted the wheels and side rods of my locomotive because the way it comes, it didn't look quite right to me.











I have since repainted these wheels with a flat black acrylic paint (tamiaka) that looks a lot better. I ditched the white walls in favor of just plain old black:









Now, I just paint the wheels without removing them. That's what I did for the mallet, seen below. 










Also, be aware that the rigid 8 wheel drive will work on an 8' diameter curve, but really needs like a 10' diameter. I ran mine on a temporary track that used LGB's 1600 series curves (approx. 8' diameter), and the locomotive does slow down quite navigating that kind of a curve. 

Based on your protype, you also might want to consider their forthcoming 2-8-0. Southern is not on their current production list, but you could always repaint. The 2-8-2 is getting a bit on the rare side to find. A quick ebay search showed me that current asking prices are twice what I paid. I don't know I would pay that much for this engine. The LGB mikado was done in Southern passenger green, and is an excellent locomotive, but it is a pricey beast. 

The bottom line:

This locomotive is a good value for the money, but you'll need to keep an eye on the drive wheels.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Thanks again for sharing your experience. I thought I had read somewhere that the Mike was more reliable than the Pacific. From what I'm hearing here that does not sound like the case. I am surprised to find that the axles are not keyed and hadn't seen a mention of the driver flange issue before. But that's why I like to "ask the Man who owns one" as the Packard slogan used to say. How are the drivers secured? Just set screws? I haven't gotten time to read all of Greg's fixes so I haven't gotten passed the wiring fix section to the driver upgrades. Southern had oodles of 2-8-0s I believe and I wish to have it painted black for freight service so if it gets better press I will likely go with one of those.


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I have the Southern Mikado. It is black not the Green that 4501 wore in excursion service. As others said the drivers initially slipped, but that was pretty much corrected. It is my favorite engine. It is probably realistic in that it pulls about like a prototype Mikado. I modified the pilot and a few other minor front end modifications. I also painted and detailed the cab a little. Like Mark I also painted my drivers black. 





The following picture was taken when the Mikado first entered service and still had the original pilot and "shiny" drivers and wheels. 



This engine may now be hard to find. There are still some out there, but they have not been marketed for a while. 

Tom


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

If yer a lookin for a Mikado another fine Ebay find!! Guess he heard they were "rare" well, this one is well done!! What you tink??? Just a funny side note to the thread! LOL Regal 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ARISTOCRAFT-G-S...036240?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3f0737c990


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Getting a little off topic, but there are two versions of the Pacific. The original, where a motor powered one drive axle and the other axles were moved by the side rods and the more current, which uses the gearbox like on the mikado. The older style had a tendency to strip the gear. The newer one seems to be more robust. Ok, back to mikados!


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Actually that's not off topic at all Mark and may well be what I'm remembering reading 'once upon a time' about the Mike being an improvement over the Pacific


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Pacific, Mikado, Mallet & Consolidation:

OLD Pacific: As mentioned, the old pacific had a motor geared to the last driver axle and the wheels were keyed through the use of a pin which mated to the wheel in a little groove Not a bad design as far as I'm concerned if they had used the wheel alignment design with the new prime-mover ball bearing gear-boxes. As mentioned, this design had a tendancy to strip the single gear. Also, lack of adequate bearing capacity allowed the engine to be over-weighted and cause drive train failures due to the flexing of the cheap plastic drive rods which actually provided the power to the first and second drivers. 

NEW Pacific: The new pacific uses a 3-axle version of the mikado design, which is functionally the same as the SD45/D9/E8 bricks except instead of motors between the axles, there are flywheels and the motor is at one end. The only difference between the pacific and mikado version of the drive is the axle-spacing oweing to the driver diameter on the pacific. 

Mikado: The mikado has a 4-axle drive train comprised of four gear-driven axles in their own ball-bearing supported gearboxes. The motor sits in the firebox and drives the individual gearboxes through a sectional driveline with solid brass flywheels connecting each drive box. The wheels are connected to eh axles in the same way as the aforementioned diesel bricks. That is to say that the wheel hub has a tapered hole which theoretically slides onto a matching taped on the axle hub. I beleive it was Greg whop figured out where the most common problem lay in the design. It was figured out that the taper in the wheels is over bored, allowing the axle to slide into the wheel further that its supposed to. Instead of the "hold-down" screw bottoming out on the wheel hub and holding the wheel to the axle, the axle protrudes through the wheel, and the screw bottoms out on the axle, leaving very little if any tension holding the wheel to the axle. Aristo's solution was to lock the wheels to the axle with loc-tite. Which as wel all know didn't work. Supposedly there is a new mechanism, I thought I saw Lewis mention they had finally keyed them together through a pin, which will debut in the next delivery of steamers this spring. If so, they will have learned exactly what I suggested above... the drive train of the primemover coupled to the old pacific axles. As long as the axles were keyed within a degree or two, the quartering would be close enough for Aristo's purpose oweing to the inherent slop in the drive rods which transmit no power, just go for the ride.

Mallet: The 2-8-8-2 mallet is simply a double mikado... the drive bricks are literally just the mikado drive, each on a pivot much like a diesel truck. This allows the mallet to use the same curves as the mikado, though it looks ridiculous doing so. Here is the only place I had the driver slip issue. I had intended to buy a second mikado to double head on NHGRS Big Green at the ECLSTS. Instead I got suckered into the mallet. While towing a modest 20-30 car freight, my mallet slipped its #2 main driver at full gallop down the massive backstretch of the layout at the show. The slip caused the entire valve gear to rip off the engine and flap about as the return crank spun. The valve gear then lodged into the ties, stopping the engine, tender, aux. water tender, and freight train dead; and nearly rolled my engine off the layout to the floor. (http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulleti...php?t=9447)

Consolidation: Aristo's second 2-8-0 offering is supposed to also use the shared mike/mallet brick. I'm not certain if ALL 4 drivers are different, or only the blind & main drivers are changed from the mike/mallet drivers. Looking at the last pictures released of the pre-production unit, it shows blind drivers on axles 2 & 3, but that the counterweight appears to be the standard weight from the mike drivers as well.

Having listed all that, my determination is such: IF you can handle the difficulties of getting a bad unit, then by all means get the Aristo Mike. For its cost, you can't beat it. If you demand perfection of the drive train out of the box, every time you run it, then bite the bullet and accept the fact that you need to dish out the cash for the LGB version... the next time one comes up on evilBay. You MAY get lucky and have no problems, but if you do, remember Aristo backs up their products. When my pony threw its shoe at the ECLSTS, Aristo backed up their product... they paid to ship an RMA shipping tag to me, shipped the mallet back to NJ, and shipped a BRAND NEW engine back to me. ANd when I inquired about paying the price for a spare cab & boiler shell in order to get the customized parts from my unit back... they shipped those parts to me free of charge and told me to keep them. I can't complain. They kept me a loyal customer. (Course, don't tell them I've been buying LGB centerflow hoppers, 50' boxcars & unibody tankers as fast as I can find them  )


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

"If you demand perfection of the drive train out of the box, every time you run it, then..." 

...Then Large Scale Model trains is not the hobby for you. At least not from my experience so far with engines from USAT, Aristo and the B-Mann. It would seem that it's not a matter of 'if' your nice, new, large scale engine will need to be tinkered with and repaired but 'when'. The more I tinker with mine as they crumble and break though the easier and less intimidating the repairs are getting. It's just part of the hobby. One day out of the blue your toy costing hundreds of dollars fails catastrophically. First you blow your personal safety relief valve and then after you've cooled down you have to just say "Okay now, we can fix this darned thing, let's just have a look-see at it here." Still, I like to pick my poisons so it's great to check forums like this to see if a certain model has a few quirks or is an engineering or quality control nightmare. 
Thanks for the insight on Aristo's locos. I think from what i saw in your post is that they may have admitted to some flaws and taken possible steps to correct them. I'm not going to buy anything for a quite a while so I have time to read people's experiences regarding the new consolidation and if they re-run Mikados. I'm sure, like in most manufactured items some of the changes will have been improvements and something unforeseen will rear it's head.
Thanks again.


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

...I'm not going to buy anything for a quite a while so I have time to read people's experiences regarding the new consolidation and if they re-run Mikados...
It's definitely wise to read people's experiences first, but don't wait too long. My advice, having been around this hobby for awhile (although just getting started on the layout), is that you should buy when you find what you're looking for. Sometimes the manufacturers don't make a second run, and other times they change things (like roadnames) for later runs. (It's not that much of a rush, it's just that I've run into the situation where two or three years after a model is released I finally decide I want one but then it's hard to find.)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To answer a question earlier, the gearboxes have a nylon gear and two metal "half" axles are screwed to it with very tiny screws. The ends of the half axles are tapered and the wheels have a matching taper in the centers to match. Except the taper rarely matches. My fix is to lap the two parts together with valve grinding compound. 

Anyone who tries this will see how small the contact patch is before it is lapped. After lapping the fit is right, and only the screw on the end of the axle is needed. 

But the poor fit from the factory and also the situation where the axle may protrude too far through the wheel, so that the screw and really the lockwasher do not bear on the wheel but the end of the axle. 

The idea is the screw is in the end of the axle, then the screw head bears on the lock washer, and the lock washer bears on the outside edge of the wheel, thus clamping the wheel to the axle. Often times the axle sticks through the wheel so much that the screw and lock washer bottom on the axle, and there is no clamping action. 

Aristo uses "red" loctite, the strongest locking fluid, intended for permanent assemblies, but they use it as a glue. The problem is that it is not intended to be a glue or a gap filler. An additional problem is that it is normally "glopped " all over, and gets in the screw and lock washer, and basically the screw and lock washer "set up" before the screw can be completely tightened, and again, you are not properly clamping the wheel to the axle. 

After lapping my drivers to the axles, I need no glue or fixative at all... the fit is so intimate that friction alone works, as it's become obvious what the designer intended. It's just poor machining of the mating pieces. 

Anyway, an inexpensive loco that can be made to run very well and pull like a son of a gun and will go around 8' diameter curves. 

Regards, Greg


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Yeah Ben, I've seen what you mean. I wasn't aware that apparently the Mike is not currently in production when I started looking. If you have your heart set on Southern Passenger Green or another rail line with difficult graphics then you're right, the window of opportunity is small sometimes. I have a family member who is really into rather obscure narrow gauge stuff and he has to pounce on anything he wants fast or it's off the market quick and only available from re-sellers. Southern's freight locos were basically just big black things so undecorated will work fine for what I'm looking for if necessary. I kind of prefer buying a Mikado but I'm also interested in the Consolidation that I believe is supposed to be released soon. 

Thanks for explaining their design some more Greg. I read your fixes on your website. Lapping sounds like good advice. Others sound like they've been lucky and the loctite has held or their particular model was machined better. I would be inclined in that case to not mess with it until things start to slip but others have reported some rather nasty damage to the valve detail/rods if things spin apart. The axle protruding too far through the wheel sounds like a harder problem to fix. 
Does anyone know for sure how Aristo has addressed this issue in future models? Keyed axles and drivers maybe? Or are they continuing to do what they have done in the past.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's not clear what Lewis meant when he claimed they had fixed the wheel slip problem. I'd be stunned to see they'd keyed the axles--I suspect it just means they yelled some at the factory manager. 

I thought the Mikado was coming back into production this year, but I may have remembered wrong. You can buy an Aristo Pacific, and just swap out the drive unit for an Aristo Mikado drive unit, and voila, instant Mikado. Then you could sell the Pacific drive unit on ebay or keep it for kitbashing. Aristo's Mallet is a really nice model, and though it's big it will handle the same curves as the MIkado


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well as long a your not a rivet counter the Pacific boiler has different sand and steam dooms than the Mike. No boilers available from AC neither I need a replacement and non to be had. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The axles are not keyed on the Consolidation. It will come with all drivers flanged. Whether the blind drivers will be packaged with the loco, or they will be available "free" by mail (i.e. $5 shipping or so) is not determined. 

Luckily Scott Polk prevailed and it will be shipped with all flanged drivers. 

Mikado not coming back into production this year, or at least no mention at all. Funny thing though, the Mallet is 2 Mikado motor blocks, so why not? Same tender between Pacific and Mikado (and same boiler ha ha). 

The Pacific and Mallet are next, with the socket moved to the tender, and then the Consolidated. 

Regards, Greg


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

_Mikado not coming back into production this year, or at least no mention at all. Funny thing though, the Mallet is 2 Mikado motor blocks, so why not? Same tender between Pacific and Mikado (and same boiler ha ha)._

I think the main reason for not issuing the Mike at this point is that it would essentially compete with the 2-8-0. The same people that buy a Consolidation probably would be interested in the Mike and vice-versa. I think that's what Lewis said either on the forum or perhaps at the Fall show. 


Wouldn't you just love that they could sell components separately. Mix and match. Yeah I understand that they could wind up with a thousand boilers or bricks or cabs or tenders that don't quite sell as well as the other parts. Really I can't see a dealer stocking any of those pieces. 

Tom


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Could be, but I suspect it's Lewis' personal decision. For 4 years in a row, Lewis told me personally, face to face, that he was very disappointed in Mikado sales. He blamed it on the loco being too large for the curves people had. He wanted to concentrate on smaller locos. 

Now, history tells you that this is a good loco, and suffered greatly from the slipping driver syndrome, as being the first steamer with the new prime mover gearboxes (at the time, the Pacific was still on the old style gearbox). Many people were very unhappy and the Mikado got a bad reputation. Lewis' insistence on wanting blind drivers on the Consolidation also fits right in, as well as the shorter wheelbase Pacific. 

The Mallet actually tracks better than the Mikado, because the 2 motors follow uneven track better. With the Mikado, and it's long wheelbase, it's the most sensitive to abrupt vertical transitions, in fact it's my major test loco to check my trackwork, you just watch the boiler pitch forwards or back to see a bad spot. 

Regards, Greg


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

I can see how marketing a 2-8-2 and your brand new 2-8-0 at the same time might compete with each other. I'm going to wait and see how it looks first. The only photos I've seen so far of the new Consolidation the gap between the boiler and the drivers just seems too large to me and the boiler seems to float high above the wheels instead of how it appears on the Mike.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, and that gap is prototypical. This will be Aristo's most "close to prototype" loco so far, at least for the steamers. 

It looks weird at first, but there's been countless pictures displayed showing that's how it is. 

Greg


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Southern had all types of 2-8-0s from what I've seen on the archives. All of them are different some have flared boilers some straight some have a larger space in there than others. some the space is larger but appears less so because the spring leaves come up high....I heard it mimics the proto engine they copied quite well. I look forward to checking it out in real live plastic.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, the gap looks a little funny. Looks funny on the prototype too







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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

We'll just have to wait and see. I was reviewing one of the Southern Railfan photo archives, don't have the link handy but you can find it easily enough. It has about 100 photos of Mikados and 230 some photos of 2-8-0s. Many from a profile that shows the space under the boiler. Most are not that large and the ones that are have springs, sand tubes, supports for the boiler and other piping in that area so it just doesn't look quite so empty as the sample photos I saw of the aristo consolidation. I'll see what the real deal looks like and what others do with it and how it runs compared to the Mikado and then maybe....


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The Consolidation should pull just as well as the Mikado if the weight is the same. The two consolidations I made pull as well as the mikado did. The Consol is also a much better detailed model.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Posted By lownote on 12 Feb 2011 11:46 AM 
The Consolidation should pull just as well as the Mikado if the weight is the same. The two consolidations I made pull as well as the mikado did. The Consol is also a much better detailed model. 

Those are all good points in the 2-8-0s favor as well as the possible ability to handle curves and transitions better than the Mike.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, so we know the drivers are an issue. 

And we know there are ways to fix the issue. 

But is there someone that will fix these for buyers. 

Those of us on here know the Bachmann Annies have week gear boxes and we know there are better gearboxes available, but how many of us would like a Annie or Mike, but don't have the ability to fix the problem ourselves? 

Once again, a FAQ section could list these problem locos and the availability of better partys and even people or businesses willing to do the labor. And I'm not talking about free. 

Free is good, but I think we all realize that everyone has to put food on the table. Maybe some of us good do with a little less food on the table but there are trains to buy. 

Randy


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Good question Randy, I have no answer. I own a 3rd gen and a Annie Big Hauler, everyone hates them, personally mine have run flawlessly. Best engines I own simply because I have never had to do anything other than lube them, put them on the track and watch them go. I have a USAT F3 that everyone here loves and mine had umpty-seven issues right out of the box that I had to fix cosmetically but overall RUNS great now, my aristo R-3 that people love to 'hate on' here, has also been a flawlessly good running engine which creeps smoothly along at proto speeds but this year I had to finally do something to it. I had to soften the spring to the coupler because it started to pull and derail the following car on tighter corners and other than some slight pitting on the chrome wheels otherwise shows little of the other issues I have heard of. I guess it's the luck of the draw. The eBay Bachmann Connie I bought had virtually all the known flaws imaginable. I asked for people's advice here and over a two month period fixed each and every issue and the d--ned thing now looks and runs great...for now. It's just a matter of time before something else crumbles, breaks, smokes...I'd be willing to bet on it. 
Overall, I have come to accept that if you want to play with large scale trains, you'll have to get your feet wet with learning how to tear into and repair them. For what they cost i wish they ran more like swiss watches but, then again, I have friends with Swiss watches that no longer run right so...I guess it's an imperfect world and that certainly seems to apply to large scale trains.There are people out there who will fix your trains for you but they charge a profitable price for their service which will divert more money from your food budget. I had no choice but to attempt to fix the toys I threw good money away on myself. So far I've been successful at it. I hope you will be as successful in your attempts to rectify the issues with the toys you've bought as I have been so far. I found it much more expensive and frustrating to try and get someone else to repair my trains than it turned out to fix them myself.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

So no one knows someone that will fix the drivers on these Aristo Locos for a fee?


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

eePosted By rlvette on 13 Feb 2011 09:34 AM 
So no one knows someone that will fix the drivers on these Aristo Locos for a fee? For a fee, ( shipping)
You can send it back to Aristocraft to be repaired.
The only thing mine still slips every time it comes back
And these always some sort of cosmetic damage to the loco
when i receive it back. 


Now mind you the slipped drivers are not the only issue with this loco.
Mine had wiring issues and a bad switch as well
I also had to have power pickups added to the tender
cause operation was eratic at best till this was done.

The only way i personally would buy another Aristocraft Steam loco
is if they were in the 200.00 range.
To me they aren't worth anything more because of all
the continuing issues with it .


Fred


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I know you can send them back to Aristo, but that is like sending a Bachmann loco back to Bachmann. 

It might be cheap, but it won't really fix the problem. 

I'm looking for someone that can really fix the problem. 

Not for myself, but for those that want one of these locos, but don't have the knowledge or tools to do the fix themselves. 

Fred, as for your not buying any more Aristo Craft locos, I fully understand your position, but there are those who would love to buy one as it may be the only game in town for that paticual type loco, and they are willing to spend the extra bucks to make it right if only there was someone that can make the mods required. 

I think a good machinist could drill and pin the drivers. 

But then I'm not a good machinist. 

Randy


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well It will be a wait and see if they truly have corrected the driver problem. When I here the reports comming in after folks have purchased then I can decide if I should buy. Later RJD


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Randy, maybe nobody is looking on this thread that knows large scale repair shops. I've got no clue but do a quick, cursory google search on model train repair and you come up with links like this: 
http://www.railmodeling.com/repairs/NORTH_AMERICA/more2.html 

Folks claiming to repair assorted gauge/scales. 
I sent my Bachmann Connie to NWSL for an estimate because they said they would not even give a ball park quote without seeing the engine. That cost me 40 bucks shipping, plus 35 bucks to look at it for an estimate only to have them tell me they wanted about twice what I could still buy a Connie new to fix it. I told them "no thanks". They sent it back with a few parts missing, the pilot snapped back and the smokestack knocked loose. I used CA to fix the pilot, snapped the smokestack back in place and decided from here on out...I'd attempt to fix things myself. They did look around for me and sent my missing parts back. In the end I bought a 12 dollar gear, carefully disassembled the engine and using the free advice I got here on line. Made it run great. Had I done that from the git-go I'd have saved myself close to 80 bucks.

If you need something machined or drilled to fix a problem I'd look around in my own neighborhood for some machinist type to take a stab at it before I'd send it back to the manufacturer to replace it with the same faulty parts at their leisure or to another repair place and hope to avoid like Fred said about the model coming back home with..."some sort of cosmetic damage to the loco when i receive it back."
I'd have to try and fail a couple of times from here on out following folks like Greg Elmaissian, George Schreyer, et. al.'s advice before I'd ever admit defeat again and pay to have someone fix one of my trains. I certainly don't begrudge someone making a decent living fixing them but like fixing most things [stereos, computers, motorcycles, lawn mowers....] you have to charge a pretty penny to make it worth your while. Most folks balk at what repair labor is really worth on most stuff which I guess has lead us to the disposable society we live in.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, when I suggested the need for shops, businesses or individuals to fix trains I was referring to people that work on G gauge trains and no how to fix the paticular issues on a paticular piece of equipment. 

For the Annies by Bachmann, Barrys Big Trains has gears that fix the problem for good. 

I don't know if he will fix the loco or only sells the parts, but if you want something fixed right and at a reasonable cost, it has to be by someone that has performed the repair before. 

This way they know what it's going to take in parts and labor. Yea, they may get into it and fine more wrong, but seldom is there more broken in the Annies that Barrys gear kit doesn't fix. 

But, I guess there is no one else. 

Randy


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Since it seems the only places to build these toys at a profit is in what we used to call "third world" countries then I can only speculate that to REPAIR them at a profit would also be in 'third world' countries. Are there 'fourth world" countries? Maybe that's the place to set up Large Scale train repair facilities.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

How do you compete with the OEM's?

Aristo doesn't charge you if the item is less than 5 years old. 
Bachmann will fix big haulers and spectrum equipment out of warranty for nominal fees, too. 

I'm not sure how PIKO or LGB will do repairs these days, but LGB's old service was excellent. For $50, they replaced sound boards and parts. 

Looking at setting up a repair facility to do non-OEM, out of warranty repairs would be very difficult, I think. The only thing that is cheaper is the labor. You'd still have to get parts from the manufacturers and have the trains themselves shipped over. Air freight is the only way they let you ship small packages these days, so there's a huge cost associated with getting the stuff wherever. Then, you'd need to have some technical people along with some customer service types. I think it would really be more hassle than it was worth for the lower labor rate. Plus, I think that the percentage of folks willing to pay for "upgrades" is very small. For example, the wheel slip on the aristo steam engines is really easy to fix. Not worth sending in. Gearbox replacements might be easy too, I have no idea. I sent mine in for repair when I discovered a gear was damaged.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I did repairs for a dealer at one time. Only problem was I lived to far away and the mailing fees got out of hand. I use to work on repairing a lot of locos. Even thought about doing it out of home but the head aches from folks not being truly satisfied can be a big issue so I drop the thought of doing this type of business. I still do it for folks I know and that's it. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy 
I did not read all the above, but e-mail rex A., maybe he can give some advice. I'm learning the world of motor blocks but not there yet.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Of course, State Farm was a little confused with an item I couldn't take to 3 repair shops and get 3 estimates.


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