# MOW "caboose" from shipping container



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

My son and I were sitting at the crossing where the UP line comes through town. A MOW train, four or five of those specialized MOW vehicles, came by. At the tail end was, for want of a better word, a caboose--apparently constructed from a shipping container on a flat car. It looked newly constructed, with fresh paint and windows cut in the tail end corners of the container. 

Anyone else seen one of these?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan;

I have been told that it costs less to build new containers in Asia than it costs to ship the empty containers back. This has started a new small industry here of refurbishing one-use containers into other purposes, such as storage facilities, mobile field offices, low cost summer cottages and hunting lodges, and, possibly, your MOW caboose. We probably should expect to see more "recycled" containers show up in interesting guises.

Regards,
David Meashey


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,

That is really interesting!

Best,
TJ


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

What Dave is pointing out is true. Sounds pretty good to find out that a person can get a 20' or 40' weather-proof metal box with locking doors just for the cost of delivery.

OTOH, we now have a couple of these abandoned in our small subdivision with no one willing to remove them. Some renters or owners got them, then moved on, leaving one on a property and another one abandoned at the end of the road. Various government agencies deny any responsibility, but are demanding that they be removed as illegal structures! Just one more really negative effect of our demand for the lowest prices, always the lowest prices!


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Sometimes they try to send shipping containers back to Asia; the ship captain gets stuck in a right turn when everyone knows Asia is a left turn.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I wish I'd been quick enough to get a picture. I've looked around on-line but haven't seen a picture of what I saw today. It was pretty neat.

I was thinking that for guys modeling modern era, it would be a cool/unusual MOW vehicle to kitbash from a flat car and container. But I don't have a picture


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

I have seen several of them. Usually they are green cars with the container painted white. Most of the time it is a 40' container on a 60' flat car. I believe there is one here in town with the work crew, I will check and try to get a photo.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, That explains why there is a mountain of them along side the NJ TPK in or near Newark.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

up9018 said:


> I have seen several of them. Usually they are green cars with the container painted white. Most of the time it is a 40' container on a 60' flat car. I believe there is one here in town with the work crew, I will check and try to get a photo.


A photo would be cool. The one I saw had the container painted UP yellow on a black flatcar. Thinking about it, I believe it probably was a 40' container on a 60' flat.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

One varient that was in the local yard a while back. This one has a walk in door in the end of the container with a window in it. The one I'm looking for is not around right now.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

That's similar to the one I saw, but not quite the same. The one I saw the container looked like it was sitting flat on the car and it had windows cut into the rear corners. I see that they stenciled the UP logo on that one... I don't recall seeing the UP logo on the one I passed, but it was painted yellow. It's a neat idea.

Thanks for posting the picture and confirming that I'm not crazy


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

But RD, thats the point... this confirms you are crazy!!

KRAZY FOR TRAINS!!!!
....LOL!!
I'd like to order one to go please... MOW green.. with UP logo!!
...in 1/29th..... thx


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Well the one thing about MOW equipment is that it is purpose built with surplus materials on hand. Therefore more often than not each build varies from the last, so you could easily make something representative of what you saw and still be correct.

Since you said the car was yellow and not green, I started thinking maybe it wasn't a Union Pacific car but actually a contractor piece of equipment. Did some searching and found this Loram unit.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

up9018 said:


>


That's it... or very much like it. I thought it was cool how they put windows in the container, slapped it on a flatcar, and poof! like magic it's a MOW car. Far cheaper I suspect than something purpose built


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Cool, so that is a 45' container, going by that you are probably looking at a 75'-80' flat car. Easy to bash from parts.

Glad to help out,
Chris


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

Logging By Rail, by Robert D Turner, copyright 1990, pages 253 & 254, shows a transfer caboose made from a flat car with a shed for conductor to stay out of the weather (Esquimalt & Nanaimo Logging RR), photo taken in the late 60's.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

It looks purpose built rather than a recycled shipping container. Or we could accuse it of impersonating a shipping containeer? I don't think Loram Maintenance of Way Inc. http://www.loram.com/ has to dip down into the recycled bin for parts. They make some pretty increedible railroad machinery

http://www.loram.com/

Track Lifter, with shack...








...at the back end 









A RailVac(tm) ?









Rail Handling

















This is what happens to laying rail when your Rail Handler has had a little too much to drink


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, no retailer of anything makes everything that goes into their product, in fact most of it is outsourced, so why not dip into another possible resource of inexpensive parts to fill the bill. The reduced cost of the part will ultimately reduce the cost of the end product. That doesn't mean the reduced cost will be passed down to the end user.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks for the additional photos, Chris. That is indeed what I saw.

I wish we had a clearer/closer view to confirm if it's purpose-built or not. But its cool, either way


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> Chris, no retailer of anything makes everything that goes into their product, in fact most of it is outsourced, so why not dip into another possible resource of inexpensive parts to fill the bill. The reduced cost of the part will ultimately reduce the cost of the end product. That doesn't mean the reduced cost will be passed down to the end user.


That's no way to run a business, a transportation company and a public utility. Anything used or recycled would morally, ethically and legally have to be disclosed. Disclose or failure to disclose either is an absolutely guaranteed go-out-of-business and much worse move.

Let's put it this way. It's your company or you're the CEO, or VP of Sales&Marketing. The customer is BNSF, CSX, maybe UP, (EU, Asia, etc. rail carrier ?) for that very specialized and very expensive machine. Your job is to go tell them you used recycled parts, a shipping container. "If you have the kahunas for that well good luck and God bless. That's the last place you want to go." (Stolen from Michael Cane movie.)

The company also has to warranty the equipment. So the exposure and liability rests with your company. If you're firm is publicly traded the exposure is to stockholders as well since stockholders own the company, plus there's the SEC, etc. 

I think it would be fair to say, in that application the specs for that corrugated steel box are significantly tighter than those for a shipping container, new or used. More evidence it's not. 

Extending that point. You're judging a book by its cover assuming what's inside can be contained in a used shipping container. Consider the machine is a track lifter (photo above), a lot of risk to property and life if not properly put back. I think the box contains the equipment that examines (by X-ray, sonic, etc.) the track and roadbed integrity. Highly sensitive stuff, sophisticated mounting, platform stability and isolation. A purpose built containment apparatus.

More to point, would you buy a new car with used and or recycled parts? If they inform you? If they don't and you and you find out sometime later? Nick, this answers your own premise.


End of rant.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, I guess you straightened me out. Do I dare suggest that they liked the design and may have copied it?? LG


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> Chris, I guess you straightened me out. Do I dare suggest that they liked the design and may have copied it?? LG


Can't see any way around that. We all gotta have a nice box to keep our toys in.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Might be considered "hijacking" the thread but it does relate to the use of shipping containers for other items. 

When I spend a couple of years working with Food for the Hungry in Kampala, Uganda back in the late 80's... (1980's that is).. We had medical supplies, clothing and other donated items shipped directly to our compound in 20 and 40 foot shipping containers. At that time, some of them were constructed from aluminum laminated plywood. We would purchase those plywood containers and convert them to housing for our personnel and local families... 

In the long run it was much more financially beneficial for the shipping company to do that rather than truck them back to Mombasa and transport them by ship back to the port of origin. 

The local carpenters and craftsmen did a wonderful job with the conversion. 

Some images of the conversion from those 25 plus year ago... (from transparencies)


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

They do look like they'd make a nice garden shed also, and I think the door can be made high enough where I won't have to remember to duck when I walk in, I don't always. LG


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick... The containers are standard sizes at 40 x 8 x 8 or 20 x 8 x 8 feet....

There is plenty of clearance for normal 6'8" doors.......


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan, thank you, the smaller one will fill my bill perfectly. I will now go to that mountain of them that are near the NJ TPK in Newark and see what it takes to get one, I'm tired of banging my head on the tin one I have. LG


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

That car is made with a shipping container. If you look in the middle of the window you can see the heavy post with the container locks on the top and bottom. Those locks are set a 40' apart on containers so any size can be locked together.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, were your statements fact or just conjecture, I anxiously anticipate your response to the above.
I expect anymore statements to be backed up with formal documentation, thank you. LG


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

For whatever it's worth to this discussion, I used to work for American President Lines and we purchased new containers, lots and lots of containers. From my experience with the StackTrains and the land-bridge service this sure looks like a shipping container.

What's to say these are necessarily used and Loram isn't buying new?


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

up908, **** Habilis and Stan, since you gentlemen seem familiar with the containers and I am going to purchase one I need some advice. 
I can't imagine a once used container be subject to much wear. In the hold of a ship, none at all and on deck only subject to salt water and weather. What else should I be looking for in my choice, if I am able to pick the one I want. thank you nick jr
And Chris??


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Nick Jr:

My American President experience was with the IT portion of the business (stowage plans, routing, trailer and container tracking) so I have little experience with the physical containers.

They can lead a rather hard life as they are often mishandled, such as being dropped from various heights, in road accidents, warehouse fires, hit by forklifts, sinkings, etc. 

All I can really recommend is to look for obvious signs of damage, rust, broken welds and such. Probably one of the more important considerations is to ensure that the doors and latching mechanism operates smoothly and can be fully closed/locked.

Good luck!


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

**** Habilis, WOW, I never would have thought, I will take your advice when looking, if they give me a choice.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Here is another angle of that car, it should show you better that it is indeed a container mounted on a flat car.










One thing you have to remember is that Loram is foremost a contractor. Many of these machines you see they are running themselves. As all good contractors, they are out to make money. That is why you see a lot of converted cars. Here are a couple of other examples of surplus equipment they have converted into a "caboose" for use on their trains.

A bay window caboose that has been Modified:











And a converted boxcar:


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like they are making very good use of used equipment to fill their needs, and probably at a much reduced cost.
Thank you
Chris, on another thread you said "I am back" so I anxiously await your response to the past postings on this one. 
I doubt I am the only one on this forum that is willing to MAN UP and admit when I think I am wrong. thank you


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Some time ago they stopped shipping heavy machines in wooden crates. They now make the crates out of steel. About 9 years ago I installed a printing press here in AZ and I took the steel crate( which bolts together) home and made the following by bolting two together. 

They are about 9 ft wide and make a room about 20 ft long and about 8 ft tall. I lined them with OSB and built shelves They can be moved because they are bolted together. 






























I have since replaced these doors with ones made of steel


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Very nice JJ.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

It is amazing what can be done with a creative mind and material that has once served it purpose. LG


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, for landscape and farm use we use these containers all the time. They make great storage and are completely weather tight and can be broken into very easily. They are pretty cheap to obtain when you know where to get them. My friend has a 20' one and picked up for 800.00 Another has 2 40' ones for farm storage at his farm. The issue do have with them is you better have some equipment to locate them where you want. I've also seen some cool cabins and remote homes built from containers.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have contacted the owners of the pile of containers near Port Newark, and I can have my pic of them, from the top of the pile for just a little more than the cost of transportation. I anxiously await my appointment to be approved.
LG


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick;
I've been away and just to catch up, what is it about the Loram big yellow box that makes it a recycled shipping container?


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, please go back over the thread and address it to those (two people) who made the statements, although I thought they made it very clear in the postings. thank you


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick;
You know you could have saved us all a lot of trouble and typing if you had just taken the direct approach. But that's ok, I took care of it for you. And, you're welcome.

__________________________________________________________
From: Chris Scott <[email protected]>
To: [email protected],
Date: 04/29/2015 09:25 AM
Subject: Loram - Product Information Request


[email protected]
7:58 AM (7 hours ago)

to me 
Chris,

The container is a re-purposed container and it is used as a mobile office and storage.

Collette Caskey
Loram Marketing
Hamel, Minnesota
Phone: 763-478-2627
[email protected]
___________________________________________________________


I hope you've learned from this experience.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Chris,

So let me get this straight, you are the only one arguing it wasn't a recycled shipping container; and now you want to act like you did Nick a favor by proving what the rest of us already knew? That Loram themselves, in fact told you what we said was true.

Maybe you should stop and investigate FIRST before you go jumping in telling people they don't know what they are talking about.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

up9018 said:


> Chris,
> 
> So let me get this straight, you are the only one arguing it wasn't a recycled shipping container; and now you want to act like you did Nick a favor by proving what the rest of us already knew? That Loram themselves, in fact told you what we said was true.
> 
> Maybe you should stop and investigate FIRST before you go jumping in telling people they don't know what they are talking about.





It's complicated. I think if I tried to explain the reverse psychology and the best defense is a good offense strategy as a means of self deprecating admission by confession of being sardonically ironic you would not believe me. So maybe someone else can help. 

If not, well there you are....



Then there's that thing about the shoe on the other foot or is it the foot on the other shoe?

Investigate? Hmmmmmmmmm 

Should have included the entire email exchange with my question to Loram:

_____________________________________________________________________
Chris Scott
7:25 AM (15 hours ago)

to Sales 
RE: What is it?
Can you resolve a debate among railfans? It concerns the Loram Track Lifter Series equipment. 
1. Is the big yellow box on the trailing flatcar a recycled shipping container or a custom built container for Loram's Track Lifter equipment package. 
2. What is it used for? General storage or for specialized equipment such as instrumentation? 

Thanks,
Chris Scott


[email protected]
7:58 AM (14 hours ago)

to me 
Chris,

The container is a re-purposed container and it is used as a mobile office
and storage.

Collette Caskey
Loram Marketing
Hamel, Minnesota
Phone: 763-478-2627
[email protected]



From: Chris Scott 
To: [email protected],
Date: 04/29/2015 09:25 AM
Subject: Loram - Product Information Request
_____________________________________________________________________


Chris (up9018);
Collette wrote it is a re-purposed container. No mention of recycled. I did specifically ask her if it was recycled. 

In my last post it could be said that I'm guilty of being too clever by half. I thought the 're-purposed' stuck out pretty clearly. Leading me, and I thought others, to the conclusion the debate is a draw; each side of the debate can claim being (half) right - not necessarily having to admit being half mistaken. Anyone could have written to Loram.

Quite a conundrum.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

up908, thank you for coming in to my defense, I am only seeing this for the first time this morning. 
One thing I did learn is not to go down that Chris Scott very windy and muddy (at least I hope it's mud, it is brown and gooey) road again. 
For those that want to model this, containers are offered by USAT and Pico. Enjoy.

EDIT: Chris, I see you edited your post AFTER I posted mine, what are you trying to hide? You sure do think a lot of your self, "too clever". 
You have now joined the esteemed few of those that do not respect a response, from me anyway. As you said, waisting key board strokes. Thank you.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> up908, thank you for coming in to my defense, I am only seeing this for the first time this morning.
> One thing I did learn is not to go down that Chris Scott very windy and muddy (at least I hope it's mud, it is brown and gooey) road again.
> For those that want to model this, containers are offered by USAT and Pico. Enjoy.


That's a bit unfortunate. I apologize if any thing here offended, frustrated or exasperated. Never my intention. It appears you took this more seriously than I did.

The post with Loram's email was not intended to be real. It was meant to be absurd and ridiculous - of course the compete opposite could only be rationally true - "I" could have saved everyone a lot of trouble. Obviously, it failed. 

My only defense. Yesterday I learned there are different types of shipping containers, constructed differently. I did not know about those in the top 2 photos. Living on the west coast across from one of the largest sea port I only see the containers on the bottom build for grappling cranes


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

!?!


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Speaking about shipping containers. If you don't live on a coast with a major shipping port, like LA, Oakland, Seattle, you might not get to see how those giant (Praying Mantis) container handling cranes come from. They're not built in place. Their built in Korea or Japan (they specialize in building, make the most and biggest) and then shipped by sea to the port.










This photo is from several years ago and shows, what were at the time the largest cranes built, passing under the Golden Gate Bridge. The passing was timed to maximum low tide having (if I remember correctly) only about 30" clearance. The ship moves slowly enough the tide rises and clearance shrinks during the passage. They had to pass under the SF Bay Bridge next, but had to park in the bay until the next max low tide. There was less than 20-24" clearance and the tide rose so at the end of transit they clearance had shrunk to about 17" The most important guy on the ship during transit was thee guy sitting at the very top of the highest point. Interviewed afterward he said he was literally sweating during the whole thing. 

The cranes installed at the Port of Oakland, CA.














There are much larger cranes now and I sure there shipped in pieces. But they still ship cranes by sea.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

up9018, OR ANYONE Please help me here, is this real or just a figment of someones imagination. It is beyond me. thank you.


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Chris:

Note that your second picture of three cranes all have the APL logo on them. 

Here is a site that shows a good selection of 48' APL containers from multiple builders.

This appears to be similar to the Loram one, minus the doors and windows.










You should get out more if you've only see two types.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm bringing this back up cause I saw on another forum about someone that has USAT containers for sale at a discount and I asked him to post it here or for permission for me to post it here, and I am waiting for a response, if anyone is interested.
thank you


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