# Locomotive advise



## stengertj (Feb 10, 2011)

I am looking for advice on a locomotive that has great smoke and sound; I have a Bachmann engine and am not impressed with either function. I have looked on ebay trying to figure this one out; however, not being able to test one makes the selection process difficult. This will be for an indoor setup that will eventually go outside. I have several Bachmann and LGB cars. Any input would be appreciated.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Welcome! You don't say what scale, steam or diesel. Tie it down a little more and we'll be able to offer you advice. 

Firstly I'd advise you that no models come with good sound isntalled - this can be a pretty expensive option after-market option... 

Best 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## stengertj (Feb 10, 2011)

I knew there would be more information needed, G scale and steam era locomotives.

Thank you


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

Try this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxy1TrXLMtY 1 : 32 / 45mm gauge. Smoke & Sound installed. 

Have Fun 

Juergen / Fritz


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

If you want smoke and sound out of the box, your best bet is MTH. All MTH locos come with sound installed, and with excellent smoke generators. Most of the other manufacturers include a smoke generator, but charge extra for sound or require you to buy a third party sound card. 

G scale" can refer to 1:32, 1:29. 1:24, 1:22, and 1:20 )and others). MTH is all in 1:32 scale: it's the "smallest" of the scales collectively termed "g scale" 

They offer an excellent 4-8-4 Hudson, and a few other interesting steamers: a challenger, a Big Boy, a Triplex. They also have a couple modern diesels. To get the most out of an MTH loco, you need to also buy their proprietary control syste.

I believe some of the USA trains steamers come with smoke and sound. The Hudson I think you can buy with a first rate soundcard installed. USAT's Hudson is in 1:29, so it will look significantly bigger than the MTH hudson


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you've got Bachmann and LGB cars, the MTH locomotives will look decidedly small and out of place in front of them. I agree that they've got the best sound/smoke out of the box, but the range of appropriately scaled equipment to run behind it is comparatively limited. If you want good smoke/sound in any other manufacturer, it's "install it yourself" time to get anything decent. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

After locomotive type, the next thing is the total budget for the loco. 

I can recommend nice locos from Germany that have features, sound and smoke that look MTH look like a piker. 

Give an idea of the "size" (wheel arrangement) of the loco, and the highest you would be willing to pay.. (total price) 

We need to know if you are in the $500 range or $1000 range or the unlimited range. 

Under $500 you really do not have options that match your desires, just to give you the bad news first. 

Regards, Greg


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

These type threads have the ability to rapidly disintegrate into a favorite brands push or bashing of competitors . Steam era narrows it down a little. But even within steam there is still a decent selection. Availability may be an issue with any of these engines. Aristocraft has the Pacific, Mikado,0-4-0 and Mallet and soon to be released(????) Standard Gauge Consolidation. All of these are decent engines with good smoking abilities. You will not get good sound without an after market sound card. USA Trains has the Hudson, the docksider and Big Boy. Again good selections. There are some higher end models out there but that is a considerable leap from the Bachman.

I think that you probably need to decide what it is that you wish for your railroad and then seek out advise on that particular engine. Keep in mind that none are perfect, all are decent with some tweeking. 

Aristocraft Mikado is a fine smoker and good puller. Drivers may be al problem coming loose but solution is well documented. It looks good on both freights and passenger trains. 



 



The Aristocraft 0-4-0 is a decent "starter engine" Mine has an original smoke unit which is pretty lame. These are not great pulling engines, but then remember that the prototype PRR A5 was not a big puller either. It is rugged. 





Think about what it is you want for a steam engine, look around, ask some more. As mentioned, availability may be an issue. Keep us posted on what you do. 

Tom


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

Maybe Live steam is an option http://www.summerlands-chuffer.co.u...4535190135 Not nessessarly for indoor use. 

Have Fun 

Juergen / Fritz


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## msimpson (Jan 5, 2009)

Or one of these? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYxDT6ySUSk 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBQ3-h4ALLQ 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R809_4ti8jo 
Cool, moist days bring out the most dramatic plumes -- actually steam rather than smoke, but quite photogenic. 

Regards, Mike


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

To add to the information that would help us help you is are you interested narrow gauge or standard gauge? Since you have a Bachmann engine, my guess is that you are interested in narrow gauge.

Chuck


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Don't forget the Aristo nee Delton C-16 2-8-0. While I can't speak to the definity of it, I always thought it was possible to kitbash an SD-45 smoker into the smokebox of the c16.

And has been mentioned, the sound is best left to aftermarket... it ensures you get what you want. 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Money talks and you get what you pay for. There are a lot of models that are reasonable in price and do have fairly good smoke and one can buy some good sound systems to install. Just depends on how much smoke you want also. Later RJD


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## stengertj (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for the great information, since I am ignorant to some of the questions, 
I'll answer what I can, as for price I understand that you get what you pay so I'll go with the 500 - 1000 mark, since there aren't good options below 500, (which is why I am here asking these questions.) 
I don't understand the narrow vs standard gauge, but will research it. Based on the what I have narrow gauge seems the way to go. 
Live steam is out because of indoor use. 
The KM-1 is very impressive but what price tag.....


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

I'd argue that the C-16 is a decent engine. Can anyone comment who has the new belt-driven [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Standard gauge is for trains that run on 4' 8 1/2 " between the rails. This is what all contemporary trains run in North America and most of western Europe. Narrow Gauge is any distance between the rails that is narrower than 4' 8 1/2 ". Typically here in the USA it was 3'. However, other gauges were also used. The Colorado Narrow gauge railroads, D&RGW, RGS, C&S etc were 3' between the rails. Narrow Gauge was less expensive to build and could handle sharper curves in the mountains.

Trains modeled for Standard Gauge are 1:32 (correct scale) and 1:29 ( not correct scale, but more popular and more available)


For trains modeled for Narrow Gauge (3' gauge) the correct scale is 1:20.3. Narrow gauge cars and engines also come in 1:22.5 and 1:24. These are not correct to scale ( on 45mm track), but they have been quite popular.


Bachmann produces models in both 1:22.5 and 1:20.3. Their 1:20.3 rolling stock is marketed under the "Spectrum line". Tell us what Bachmann engine you have and we can tell you the scale that matches that engine.




Chuck 


PS Before you start plunking down $$$, you need to know what type of trains attract you.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

I hope you enjoy getting into this crazy hobby because I started with a single set a year and 1/2 ago and now..... well needless to say my wife has no problem saying "I would like that" and she gets it! Anyway, it took me some time to understand this whole scale thing. Basically try to remember that gauge applies to the width of the track and it is commonly called gauge 1 (or G gauge). (45mm). Anyway, as very nicely put above scale is from 1:20.3 to 1:32. If you want to get a good idea of "scale" go to any hobby shop and look at the model cars. You will quickly see the lower the number the bigger the item. 1:1 scale is real life size. Either way, enjoy this hobby and enjoy the many friends you can make on this forum. They are great people (and will even pick on you to prove it!)


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By jgallaway81 on 10 Feb 2011 05:32 PM 
I'd argue that the C-16 is a decent engine. Can anyone comment who has the new belt-driven [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); I've got one and she runs quiet and is a good puller.
Scale smoke looks toylike to me so it was easy to gut the smoker and fill the boiler with batteries!
Plenty of room in the tender for elctronics and speaker.

But you will get a lot of grief from spoil sports who find glee in pointing out the odd gauge!

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So if narrow gauge is your most likely choice, then I would look at the Bachmann K27, and use the chuff "switches" to make puffing smoke. 

Now you need to talk about what kind of remote control you need, but you can keep it under $1,000 with the sound, smoke, and maybe some installation costs. 

Regards, Greg


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

If you otherwise like what you already have, gut the factory smoke and sound and upgrade them.


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## RUDYSMALLET (Feb 7, 2011)

I like this one, Europeans are way ahead. I wish we have those here in the US. Are they available here, If you know. Give some Lead..


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Mik on 10 Feb 2011 09:17 PM 
If you otherwise like what you already have, gut the factory smoke and sound and upgrade them. 
I'd probably second this opinion. As far as stuff that will look good with narrow gauge goes, I don't know that you'll find anything out of the box that you'll like. I have the Lake George and Boulder version of LGB's Forney with the digital sound. It's scale is a little off and is debatable but I think it looks fine with LGB and Bachmann rolling stock and it will out pull much larger engines. The OEM system sounds fantastic. Not a lot of bells and whistles (no pun intended) but still a very high quality realistic sound. I have no interest in replacing it with anything else. The smoker works well enough but it won't scare an MTH, Massoth, or USA one and it doesn't chuff. I've never heard an LGB Mogul with a digital sound (only the crappy quality electronic) so not sure if that will be good enough out of the box. If you like your current locomotive except for the smoke and sound, then Mik is absolutely right, save yourself the cash and just swap out the parts. $250 (give or take) for a phoenix sound system (my personal favorite), another hundred or so dollars for a high performance smoke unit, plus install costs if you can't do it yourself, and things get pricey quick.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

You've come to the best place to help you make your decisions. 10 years ago, I was in your boat. Wondered what the best engine for smoke and sound was....sure was one of my questions. And that led to a whole lotta more questions. And....I jumped in. eBay was an easy source of stuff. Now I have about 20 cars I don't want. My recommendation...is set down and think about what you want YOUR GRR to do. Invent a theme for it. What time frame are you interested in....or not. Do you want it "scale"...or is just some train running in your basement/garden good enough? Sound...now that's an arena to really investigate...Bachmann engines come with "sound"...then there is the $300 additional board for "good sound". Smoke...well...do you really want a LOT of it....indoors? Go to a show if you can and smell the smoke....talk to the guys there that run stuff with smoke. Indoors you can see if if you can stand it....outdoors, same engine, it's sometimes hard to even see it.

Theme....what kind of model RR are you interested in? Lumber RR (Narrow gauge, NG)...Mining (either gauge)...trains in the garden (any gauge)...European or American?...tight curves (NG) or broad curves (Standard gauge, SG)...modern (SG), to scale (1/20.3 NG or 1/32 SG)....other scales (1/22.5, 1/24, 1/29 (which is REAL popular)...it goes on and on


But the theme you pick, and we all do either consciously or unconsciously, determines what you want to buy. You've said "steam"....so that means before 1960 as an example of "theme". Now if you're into just "trains in the garden", then you can do what you want....any year...any scale...you'll be happy. But do think about the other parameters of your theme....it will save you a lot of money. You don't want to buy a bunch of stuff early...that doesn't fit the theme you'll end up with. I speak from experience....


I strongly recommend you go to the FORUMS....and just read when you can. There's an enormous amount of opinions posted....some will hook up with you.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 11 Feb 2011 01:01 AM 
.... Now I have about 20 cars I don't want. ...



You can 'throw them out' over here. I might even pay postage!








Mikey has a couple real good points. A MTH or Massouth volume of smoke indoors mostly just makes me sick as a dog - Since it's generally vaporized scented oil it will mix with dust and create a nasty goo that eventually settles everywhere as well.. Also, even a good sound unit in a confined space may well get a little grating after a bit. It may not matter to you, but it may matter to your significant other. Nothing takes the fun out of a hobby like constantly fighting with swmbo over it.



Since Mikey started you down the theme and justification road, you might find these helpful: 

http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/gauge.html 

http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/tips2.html 
http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/timeline2.html

Probably a bit too much all at once, but approach all the advice you've gotten like you'd eat an elephant - take one bite at a time.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

With a Zimo MX690V decoder and a smoke unit that has a separate heater element from a fan, smoke can be had in great controlled quantity. 
Decoder can use virtual chuff or a reed sensor for chuff, and smoke will puff on steam engines. 

This can be installed in any engine that has room for it in the boiler and for under the $500 Greg mentioned. Of course this does not include the cost of the engine!!! 

So, it is easy to go over the 1000 dollar limit mentioned above.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The USAT dockside switcher comes with smoke and sound. Not very good sound, but sound. It's made of die cast metal it's heavy, and it pulls like mad. It's scaled in 1:29. 

Also I agree that you can save a lot of money if you figure out what "theme" you want ahead of time. Choosing standard or narrow gage simplifies your choices a lot


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Stengert: Well if you have an extra four grand then you can have the KM1. I now someone who has one and it's for sale. We have run here on my layout and it sure is one fine running loco. Later RJD


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## stengertj (Feb 10, 2011)

Thanks for all the help, I would rather stay on the lower end of the 500 - 1000 mark, I found an Aristo Craft 2888 locally, but I don't have a model number so I am not sure if it is in the line of what I am looking for, I will try to post a picture and see if someone can tell me about it. 
[url="


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Start watching the video I have included here at 3:14 and watch this is an MTH Triplex. You will notice that the front smoke unit is NOT working!! I sent it to Ray In Kansas and he repaired for me now the front smoke works fine and you will see the whistle smoke and the smoke out of the stack on the back of the tender. NOW if you can find a MTH smoke unit I would guess you could install in something else. They are very desirable, so you may have trouble finding one. The second link is to Ray's site, you might contact him and he may be able to help you find one!! So watch the first link check out the second and check with Ray too. Regal 

http://www.youtube.com/user/7485jerry 

http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/Gardenrr2004.htm


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

USA Docksider is a greet loco.
Best 350.00 ive spent so far in this hobby.
Very heavy and pulls fantasticly.
Im saving now to Own a USA Hudson.
Good luck and enjoy the hobby.

Fred


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

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Thanks for all the help, I would rather stay on the lower end of the 500 - 1000 mark, I found an Aristo Craft 2888 locally, but I don't have a model number so I am not sure if it is in the line of what I am looking for, I will try to post a picture and see if someone can tell me about it. 
http://s1103.photobucket.com/albums...rs0672.jpg" target="_blank">







http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums...rs0672.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket">

It's a model of a standard gauge Pacific type (4-6-2) locomotive, which was typically a Passenger engine, in 1:29 scale. I think Aristo has two different generations of it, but I don't have one and am not an Aristo expert at all so someone else could better talk about that than me, so hopefully they have better information about running characteristics, reliability, etc. It looks to be lettered for Union Pacific. depending on your preferences, it may or may not look right with your LGB and Bachmann rolling stock (most or all of which I'm assuming is around narrow gauge 1:22.5 scale). What model Bachmann do you have? I'd still suggest just upgrading your current one. If you do a here search there's no shortage of discussion about smoke units and you can just listen to all the different ones out there till you find one you like on the manufacturer's websites (phoenix, soundtraxx, massoth, zimo, mth, etc) and looking them up on youtube to see models already equipped in action (the sound samples on their websites are not usually very high quality).


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## stengertj (Feb 10, 2011)

I found a locomotive based on the advise given, I didn't want to upgrade one of my current locomotive because I think they were cheapo from a Bachmann starter set. So I purchased a used LGB 2028d for a reasonable price. It is pictured below, I want to add a better smoke unit and sound card, is there someone on the forum that does this?


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## stengertj (Feb 10, 2011)

One more thing, it came with a Mogel bag, not sure what that is, so if anyone can enlighten me....... Now what transformer is recommended?


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Not sure what the Mogul bag is. Older LGB Moguls are like the 1990's japanese cars of model railroading. You pay a lot up front but they run like stink, are rock solid reliable, require little maintenance, and aren't particularly choosy about anything, including power packs. I think a standard starter set transformer should be fine for it. Far as sound and smoke install go, kinda depends on what brand of smoke and sound you wanna go with. I know Axel from Train-Li is active on these forums, specializes in LGB, and does sound, smoke, and DCC using Zimo units. Other people will probably have referrals for guys who work with the others.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

We do high installations as you can see here:
Train-Li-USA examples of smoke and sound installtions


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

While great runners and lots of space in the tenders. there is not much room in the front of the LGB moguls due to the weight in the boiler. 

A zimo sound/motor decoder fits in the rear in front of the fire box and a large speaker fits nicely in the tender. 

So, adding a large smoke unit means removing the large weight and cutting some of it off, thuds greatly reducing the pulling power. 

However, you can control the voltage to the heater element better with the Zimo decoder esp if DCC operation.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

if you send the locomotive to Axel (and even if you don't) get some of his Ball Bearing pickup wheels installed on the tender and a traction tire on the engine. With those modifications (plus some non pickup BB wheelsets on the other two axles) my Moguls will now outpull my Bachmann Annie. a bit pricey but I'd consider it a mandatory modification if you plan to do any sort of heavy hauling with your Mogul.


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## stengertj (Feb 10, 2011)

I have already contacted Axel about the upgrades, I will have to look into the additional upgrades, thank you for the advise.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

if you do the full smoke and sound, post a video. trying to decide on some similar upgrades to my fleet and would love to see how yours looks in action.


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## stengertj (Feb 10, 2011)

I will do that, it is the least I can do considering all the help I received here.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

My LGB stock mogul (C&S #7) would always outpull my annie. My LGB mogul was the older version that had traction tire and lead weights!! LGB costs more money, but much better sound!!


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 18 Feb 2011 01:36 PM 
My LGB stock mogul (C&S #7) would always outpull my annie. My LGB mogul was the older version that had traction tire and lead weights!! LGB costs more money, but much better sound!! 


I never did a level ground comparison but when it came to challenging our layouts difficult area (a series of uphill esses) the Annie was able to pull more cars than any of my 3 Moguls (original 2018, LG&B 2119 and C&S Beartrap 23192), and all have traction tires. The difference is that on the Annie, the tender wheels aren't pickups so they don't generate that extra drag, and removing that drag with BB wheels has made the difference. Interestingly, I noticed that the 2119 was out pulling the 23192 and after examining the tires, realized that 119 had its tire on a different wheel and axle than 192 did. I'm thinking that might explain the difference since theoretically the engines should pull at equal strength. BTW is there a reason you only put a tire on one of the six drivers?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I believe that only one side should have a tire due to traction on curves. Smooth wheels will slip on non traction tire side. My theory!!


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 20 Feb 2011 07:16 AM 
I believe that only one side should have a tire due to traction on curves. Smooth wheels will slip on non traction tire side. My theory!! 
good theory. so theoretically one should look at the curves on the layout and figure out which side will be on the outside in the most curves, or at least the most difficult ones from a pulling perspective, and put the tire on that side where it will have the greatest impact?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

HMMMMM which side slips the most? inner or outer. Inside needs less distance on curves. Traction tire would most likely make opposite side slip. 

I do not have an answer for this and perhaps it is chicken and egg syndrome, which came first???


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"I do not have an answer for this and perhaps it is chicken and egg syndrome, which came first???" 

Don't have a clue for wheel slip either, but the above answer is easy. Since lots of critters laid eggs before chickens arrived on the scene (insects, fish, crustaceans, anphibians, reptiles, dinosauers), the egg came first. I would guess that other track and train conditions could also affect the chance for slippage: drawbar drag from the cars' resistance to the curve, percentage of grade, solutions (oil, dew, etc.) on the rail head, and the severity of the curve, itself. 

Now, how many angels can dance on the head of a crankpin? Probably the safest thing is to be mindful and watchful of the performance of the locomotive and make throttle adjustments accordingly. 

Yours, 
David Meashey


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