# LGB vs DCC



## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

I recently unexpectedly acquired an LGB 040 (22232) at a good price, as in free.

It says it is decoder ready on the bottom, but the wiring is inscrutable.

I realize that I could just rip the PWB's out of the tender and loco, but I would like to retain the sound board if possible. The thing is apparently set up to take two doecoders, a function decoder in the tender to control the sound system and a motor decoder in the loco. However, the connection points between a DCC decoder and the loco PWB's are not at all obvious.

Does anyone have interconnection diagrams for this loco?

- gws


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Gerorge

Does the Locomotive have a circuar 5 pin logo on the bottom of the locomotive? If so I can send you a pdf which explains the connections.

LGB used toggleing the F1 function to as a sort of protocol to trigger the various functions.

Stan

http://www.tttrains.com/largescale/


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Massoth can supply a plug and play decoder of that type.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2008)

yes, both the loco and tender have a sticker on the bottom which says "Direct Decoder"


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2008)

thanks Treeman

I've sent an email to Massoth and scoured their webside. I think I've found the decoder recommended for that loco but it's kind of expensive however less so than a QSI. The sound that is in there is basic, but fairly good. 

I would hope that I can find some documentation showing the exact pinouts on the two boards because just blowing the whistle isn't worth a 2nd Massoth decoder but a cheap function only Digitrax decoder in the tender could do that job.


Cost is indeed an issue.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2008)

Stanley, I would appreciate the pdf file. 

thanks

[email protected]


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I was hopeing that someone had better info then what I have ......

but I do have some notes 

when adding a decoder to a LGB loco you can hook the wires from the power truck to the decoder then power the board up to run the lights and sound 

my notes also say when adding a decoder to the lgb board you have to throw all 4 switchs on the board 

on some boards the LGB decoder plugs in on others you need the wireing adapter 

and to trigger the sounds I use 12v relays that come off the function output of a stanard decoder to complete the loop like the reed switchs ....


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2008)

thanks, this is useful 

- gws


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hello George,

These may help:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/2x232%202-4-0.pdf

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/22232%20Great%20Northern%200-4-0%20Sound.pdf

You would need LGB 55020, 55021 or Massoth L decoder(s) for a plug in connection (no adapter is needed) and you MUST throw the 4 switches to the decoder position or you will probably damage the decoder.

There are some reasons why non-LGB or Massoth decoders may not work right (notice there are no inputs for smoke, bell, whistle etc.).

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/2-4-0 Board.JPG 










Also bear in mind that LGB sold these locos both with and without sound (the sound board from your tender could add sound to someone else's 2-4-0). 

This happens to be a project I am working on. Feel free to contact me off line.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2008)

Duh.... I have never seen an LGB decoder and I just realized that it is designed with pins on the board to plug right into the loco board. However, the lighting is still weird. If all 4 switches are in the "forward" or DCC position, I get no lights at all. I assume that there must be a jumper on the decoder that reroutes the lighting power.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi George,

There are pins on the LGB and Massoth decoders that are apparently for the front and rear lights. They work with LGB and Massoth decoders but I would not suggest how to use them with non LGB/Massoth decoders.













This is how Massoth recommends installing their XL decoder (not into a Direct Decoder Interface). It may help understand how the circuit boards work.










I suspect that installing anything but LGB or Massoth decoders into a LGB decoder ready circuit board may prove problematic.

Good luck,

Jerry


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2008)

After starting to comprehend what LGB did when they designed MTS, I want NOTHING to do with it. That lets out the Massoth decoder which is too expensive for just a small decoder anyway. 

The option for a DG583S is still in the running, but basically the sound will chuff and not much more. I don't care for track magnet triggered sounds and it appears that the existing sound system cannot be played to make legitimate whistle signals. 

I am most strongly considering putting a QSI with a 500 sound file in the tender. There is room for it there and I'd junk the existing sound board. I'll retain the track magnet pickup assy because I am using it to support a set of power pickups. The 3 middle wires of the 5 wire harness will be reassigned. Two will be used for motor power going forward and the middle wire will be for the front headlight. The speaker will get changed out for a much better one. I could retain the existing front headlight by installing a 330 ohm (or so) dropping resistor. I will make 20 volts for the headlight from two diodes soldered to the track power sockets that were intended for the LGB decoder. I may also change it to an LED which will fit nicely if I drill out the headlight hole in the smokebox to allow the LED to be inserted from the back. I could also drill out the white plastic diffuser cup inside the headlight and insert the LED directly into the headlight housing, six of one, half dozen of the other. The rear headlight will probably be left as an incandescent. The way that it is mounted, a 5 mm LED won't fit and a 3 mm LED would be less bright than the bulb. 

The QSI is about $30 more expensive than a single Massoth decoder and $75 more expensive than a Digitrax decoder, but I'll get excellent sound that works. 

I've found that if I leave switch 4 in the track power position, then the cab light and smoke can be controlled by the switch on the backhead. The position of switch 1 won't matter.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

you can trigger the bell and whistle on the lgb sound board ..... you just need two 12 volt mini relays and two dioides 


the relay will act like the reed switch that triggers with the magnet but it will be triggered by the decoder fuction you want I use F1 and F2


these can be piggybacked on the reed switch wires if you want magnet trigger also 


you can also add one more to turn the sound on and off using F8


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2008)

thanks Scott. I realize that I can do this, but I don't just want to trigger a crossing sequence, I want to play the whistle to make any signal I want at any time. It doesn't appear to be possible with this board.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

to play a whistle you need a real time whistle like the one in phoenix sound ......


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## Guest (Nov 8, 2008)

There are other systems that play well 

Sierra does not "play" well, but the automatic whistle signals at start and stop do reasonably well 
DSX does well 
Amazingly, the MRC AD322 does pretty well, but in a non standard fashion 
P5 does well 
QSI does ok, but the short toot often sounds quite different than the longer toots 
Soundbug is not so good, the shortest signal is too long 
I have no experience with a 2K2, but I assume that it similar to the P5 
Dallee does well on the whistle, not so good on the chuff


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

I used a Digitrax 583s to drive a LGB F7a. when I hooked the F7b sound unit to the a unit I was able to control the bell and horn through my cab by using the serial comands ie: press f1 once for horn and twice for bell.


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