# Magic Carpet drive, or similar



## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been looking at NWSL's Magic Carpet drives... the only model the catalog says is currently available is the motor block style. I see they used to sell nose hung units, but not any more. Are there any other sources of nose hung drives in #1 scale? 

I remember talking to a guy several years ago that got into live diesels. He said the traction motors on his unit (can't remember the brand), worked like prototype traction motors, in that they rolled free when no current was applied. Does that ring any bells for anyone, and if so, where could I get some?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

I have no idea as to what the quality is, but see FOSMOTOR
http://www.peterspoerermodelengineers.com/90275/info.php?p=7
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Have a look here
http://www.abcgears.co.uk/html/traction_motors.html

Alan


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Alan,
Whilst it doesn't say so, I think that your page link is Gauge O.
Here is the Gauge 1 page:
http://www.abcgears.co.uk/html/gauge_1_traction_motor.html
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks guys.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

YOu might call NWSL and see if they will make what you want. They have done that before.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Burl,
That may have been me. Wada Works live Diesel GP-9. Has fully functional brass truck frames with lightly sprung journals and swing link bolster (if that's the proper term). It's like riding on a cushion of air 

Each axle has a mounted Faulhaber coreless motor (about 20 by 25mm I believe) with a 1:8 gear ratio to the axle. The coreless motor and light gearing arrangement make the trucks roll easily on there own. Quite interesting to control as when you let off the throttle the unit continues to roll like the real thing.

Will try to take a pic later. Have 2 of the NWSL units and altho cool, not quite the same.

-Ray


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

After I stewed on it a while, I was thinking it was you, Ray. Would love to see some close-ups of the trucks sometimes, if you could do that.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

I got a reply back from ABC gears, and they said around 90 euros, per motor. But, they don't have the size wheels I want - I'd have to send them a set. That's about $500 a loco, just for the traction motors.

I'm tempted to try making my own. Does anyone have a source for miniature gears? I did a cursory search, but I'm a little out of my element here. Maybe someone with an ME background can point me the right way.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Burl,
Do you have a PSME catalog? They have a bunch of different gears in their catalog. Or if you know what size you might try making a phone call. The PMSE website only lists the catalog, they don't show what is in stock.
PRECISION SCALE MODEL ENGINEERING 
Craig


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

You want some gears?

http://www.sdp-si.com/Miniature/index.htm



Trot, the well-meshed, fox...


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Pardon my ignorance here... but when I'm looking at gear specs, they don't list a set screw. I'm planning on using a motor with a 1.5 mm shaft, so I assume any gears that might fit are too small for a set screw. So, how do you attach the gear to the shaft?


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

An "easy" way is a slip-fit with Loctite 609 bearing adhesive. Think of it as a 'week' superglue so that the gear can be removed later. 

The better answer is to press-fit it. The bore should be about .002 undersize for a good, tight, fit.

I'd just use superglue if I was doing it. If your shaft is clean and reasonably polished it won't grip very well anyway. ;]

Trot, the hillbilly, fox... (Git 'er dun...)


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> So, how do you attach the gear to the shaft?


 The other way is to make the shaft grip the gear, by adding a ribbed section. In practice, the axle can be 'damaged' to make a raised bit which the gear hangs up on and is thus held tight. I used to use pliers at an angle - which doesn't work on stainless or hardened steel !

There's an official engineering term for this. . .


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

That week..does it take a week to dry...
Or is it just a weak glue, as in not very strong.
You could kick it and get it to set sooner!!

sorry.....

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Does "knurling" come to mind....?

Dirk


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

SD90WLMT said:


> Does "knurling" come to mind....?
> 
> Dirk


Yes, I guess - though I was thinking of the low-tech way using whatever was lying around.

When I googled 'knurling' to confirm it was what I thought it was, I did hit on a "Universal Mounting Hub". This isa hub with a set screw and lateral bolts for attaching your gear, wheel, or w.h.y.










http://www.servocity.com/html/hubs___adaptors.html

Incidentally, Servocity has lots of gears - I use the chain for driving the throttle on my steamers.


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

SD90WLMT said:


> Does "knurling" come to mind....?
> 
> Dirk


Yep, that's the term for "damaging" (aka distorting) the surface of a shaft in order to make it grippable or increase its effective diameter. Any time you see a metal part with raised ridges for gripping either by finger, or a plastic part, chances are it was knurled to make it that shape.

Trot, the deformable, fox...


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

SD90WLMT said:


> That week..does it take a week to dry...
> Or is it just a weak glue, as in not very strong.
> You could kick it and get it to set sooner!!
> 
> ...


Weak, not week. Sorry, I'm on the good drugs due to a pain in the neck... ;]

Trot, the nervy, fox...


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Better than being a PITA...

sorry....too much fun!!!

Watch that neck Trot....twisted or otherwise.....its the only one ya gots!!

UP Heritage Passenger train came thru, headed to Tucson this morning!!! Weee ..hoooo!!!
...18 pretty yellow ones....

Dirk - The layout builder - DMRR


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So glad we all got knurled......!!!!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Now....

....we ....fit better ..


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

SD90WLMT said:


> So glad we all got knurled......!!!!


Actually, it occurred to me that knurling an existing smooth shaft isn't going to increase its diameter, so it won't grip the gear! Sorry!

"Damaging" is what I do to make them stick.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Well...knurling is the correct process...

It does not "cut" theads like a die...leaving the original size shaft...
It deforms the material and "raises" the metal to create a larger size...

Dirk


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## virgal (Sep 25, 2009)

Like all of you, I have been interested in a powered axle for a while now.

If you would like to assist me, I will design and laser cut a framework to hold it together and take care of the assembly. I will also help draw up the specifications.

I would need some help in the sourcing of an appropriate motor and gears. 

If you are interested, contact me and we can start putting this together.


Alan -thegalline
[email protected]


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## DTI356 (Jan 3, 2008)

Burl,

If the hub of the gear sticks out enough you can just drill a hole thru the hub and axle and run a pin thru them. That's how I did them on my 'O' scale engines that used gears on shafts.

Brian


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Brian: the motor I'm looking at using has a 1.5mm shaft. If yours were that small in O scale, you have way more patience, and a better drill, than I do!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

You could also cut a groove with a thin separating disc, I have some .009" thick, in the shaft. With a jeweler's saw you can make a matching groove inside the gear hole and use a 'key' to hold the two together... the key could be a flattened section of wire


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

The result of my latest scheme: 



















I printed these in nylon, thinking they'd just be a prototype to see if everything would fit together, then I'd print them in steel later. After looking at them, I think they'll almost work as the finished product. I still plan on doing the gears in brass or steel. The side frames seem stiff enough to support a loco, even if they are nylon. Now I'm just waiting on bearings and springs.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Assembling the parts reveals several issues:



 1) The springs are way too strong. OD, length are alright. May have to go with a smaller diameter wire.


2) SLS nylon has too much flex for a final product – will have to go with steel for the frame, and lower arm. Nylon would have been nice, especially where the brass plate bolts underneath the journals (self-tapping screws vs. drilling & tapping for machine screws).


3) The journal & the swing arm were printed separate. I’m wondering now if it wouldn’t be better to print it all as one piece. Assembly would be much easier. I was initially thinking about casting the journal in resin to get better detail.


4) The gearbox cover (not pictured here) needs some registration tabs. Also, the gears would be much easier to assemble if they had some spacers added to them. 


5) I’m also considering making nylon spacers to gauge the distance between the inside of the wheel and the big gear. Hoping to keep trial and error fitting to a minimum.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

Lookin real good man! Would love to have more similiar to the wada unit!




















https://www.dropbox.com/s/gj7etjqfj5npivs/2014-03-31%2013.13.37.jpg


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)




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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

Hi Burl, I found a good source of gears is Muffett Gears in the UK. www.muffettgears.co.uk . They are very economical and come with a substantial boss on the side of the gear for drilling and pinning, although so far I have found that simply roughening the shafts with sandpaper is enough to prevent slippage because the gears are a snug press-fit anyway.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Burl, once again top stuff. The frames look excellent. I have this as a future task on my list. But mine was for the frames to fit the Alco S-4 / FA series motor block. Quite an inspiration.


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