# Kadee Couplers vs. Aristocraft



## rbwhale (Sep 15, 2008)

If I don't care that much about remote switching (and I don't), is there any good reason why I can't stay with Aristocraft couplers on my locomotive and cars? I really like to just watch the train go around and around. Will the gods of G scale visit me with a plague of mutant moles for taking the esay way out?


Thanks
RB Whale


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## Don Gage (Jan 4, 2008)

If you are just starting out, spend the money on the Kadee's. Someday when you build your empire you'll have a great start on the right couplers. I use Kadee's, but not for remote uncoupling, they work better and give a scale appearance. 
Just my thoughts, 
Don


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought that as well. I spent eight years building a railway using Aristo. I even bought a bunch of Aristo couplers from members here just to put on cars and locomotives from other makers.

Eventually I had 40+ cars that I really used and 6 or 8 engines that spent a lot of time on the track (and not on a shelf somewhere) and I really hated the Aristocraft couplers. Not only did I find they looked bad, they didn't really work that well. USAT couplers worked better and I actually had a lot more USAT cars.

So I broke down and invested $1000.00 in Kadee couplers. I used 930's everywhere and bought the correct conversions for every engine I owned. Yes, I could have used a smaller variety but these are excellent and well worth the two weeks it took to make the fleet change.

Buy Kadee while your still getting started.

Dave


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

Kadee's work well but for just running trains without switching activity, MOST of the Aristo couplers will work well enough.

SOME couplers are bad actors. The last time I did a check was in the mid 90's and Aristo may have fixed their molds, but at that time, about 25% of the couplers were, IMHO, defective in that they would not couple well and tended to lock together so tightly that they tended to cause derailments.

If they are still that way, you can sort the bad actors out.


See http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips3/coupler_tips.html for the gory details


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I use Aristos. They work well for me and I can uncouple cars easily with my big mitts. My biggest complaint with them is the distance between cars being a bit big. Other than that I like them just fine. 

-Brian


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

The only reason I went o Kadee was because of body mounts. now if you like AC couplers and want to body mount them I can show you how. once you do a few cars you will have figured it out and they sit closer togther.


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

RB, 
I stayed with Aristo couplers for these reasons: 
75% of my rolling stock and locos is Aristo. Therefore, I only have to buy couplers for 25% of my purchases. 
75% of my purchases can be put on the track added to a train and ran, right out of the box. No mods needed before running. 
Enough people switch to KDs that with a little searching you can find Aristo couplers at $2/coupler. Pretty cheap. 

If I decided to start out with or switch to KD couplers: 
I would be buying couplers for every piece of equipment I own. 
Nothing would run out of the box. Would need to modify every piece of equipment. 
Then you need to decide whether to truck mount, body mount, are your track curves broad enough to body mount? A lot of choices need to be made. 
KDs run $6 to $8/pr. 

Operationaly, Aristo couplers do have a couple of problems. Some are made weak and pull apart without opening up. When you find a coupler that does this, either move it to a car that will never have alot of cars behind it or trash it. I put my weak couplers on Eggliners, cabooses, etc. 
The other issue with Aristo couplers is they stay coupled during derailments. If one car goes on it's side, all the cars will be pulled over. I understand that KDs do not do this. 

What is the worst case scenario if you stay with AC couplers? You change your mind down the road and have to pony up $400 bucks to switch 50 pieces of equipment. 
What is the worst case scenario if you go with KDs? You will forever be modifying your equipment before using it.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I fought the Aristo's for years, now VERY happy with Kadees. NO banging them together to get them to couple.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I started off with Aristo, trains kept pulling apart. Everything is Kadee now.


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2008)

Everything is a trade. There is no doubt that Kadee couplers work much better than Aristo and there lots of options in mounting them but Ward is correct. If you go to Kadee, you will have to do it whole hog. If Aristo couplers work for you, then they are the most cost effective solution and if you buy mostly Aristo stuff, then you won't have to mess with them either, except maybe to sort out some bad actors.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi RB,

In reading through the reply's, everyone listed the problems with Aristo couplers that they were willing to
live with. The only downside that I saw listed for KD's was the cost per car. The question you have to answer
is. What can you live with?

I have used KD's through 40 plus years and 3 scales. They work!
Later
Rick Marty


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I just got done running trains on a friends layout today. We had a good time but i must say that the aristo couplers failed miserably. We were running a large consist (over 30). The cars couldn't make it around the layout once without an aristo coupler coming undone. The ones that didn't were permanently fixed closed or coupled together with zip ties.. My kadees worked flawlessly. The average kadee set is $5.88 from Ridge Road station. To me, to have rolling stock work and not have coupler failure, thats a small price to pay. Truck mount conversion takes about five minutes and that includes a two minute break. Body mount can be more in depth, but i have rarely had one take more than twenty minutes. You also don't have to do them all at once. If you already have the cars buy a few when you have some money. Convert one end of a car so it will have your aristo coupler on one end and a kadee on the other that way you can use both couplers. If you got into switching that would be a problem but if you just want to run trains it works fine. 

Terry


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## Chris France (Jan 3, 2008)

I've stayed with Aristos and don't regret it at all. Granted I run shorter trains for the most part, but I even put Aristo couplers on my USA streamliner set. There is a negative to Kadees, if your trackwork has any horizontal kinks (quick changes in grade) the kadees have a tendency to bypass each other when one rises while the other stays at the same level or drops. This is just what I've noticed on my own layout.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a cheap option that no one seems to have thought of or are simply not mentioning. Please forgive my bringing up the past like some ol' fart!  

Many moons ago in HO before Kadee couplers attained their modern design, and even before the NMRA grappling hooks, there was a multitude of couplers. Most didn't work well at all. The ones that looked good were either dummy couplers or required 10 lbs of force to couple and the ones that worked fairly well looked....well awful! 

The idea below is for the roundy round runners that just like to run trains and aren't interested in switching very much. I would assume that many if not most of those using Aristo couplers fall into this category. 

A trick used in those days was to install fiber drawbars between passenger cars in a train. One end would be screwed beneath a car and the other with a hole drilled in it secured to a lug, or screw beneath the next car. Since the drawbars were homemade they could be of whatever length desired that was compatible with looks and the track curves encountered. It was necessary to have operating couplers only on the ends of each string of cars. Thus a passenger, or freight if you run that way, train of 12 cars for example would need only one pair of couplers to provide automatic coupling on each end. The middle cars could be added to or removed by hand which is what most using the production couplers do anyway. As to looks, the closer coupled cars with drawbars (painted black) would look a lot better than the same string with the humongous blobs of plastic called couplers between them and will stay coupled. Cost for couplers becomes a non-issue since only a few pairs of your favorites would be needed for the engines and individual strings of cars. 

Personally I use Kadees on everything and have for years back to when the uncoupling pin on them was just a straight steel pin hanging down. I like switching ops so the investment in good operating and good looking couplers is well worth it to me.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I use nothing but Kadee's and usually bodymounts.
You can play "real" trains with Kadee bodymounts by pulling out the slack to get a long freight train rolling and when stopping a long passenger train, trying to keep the train from bunching up so as not to upset the passengers...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

All good comments, and Chuck brought out a unique advantage with the prototypical slack, although this is only in the 830/820. Stick with the G scale versions if you have more abrupt vertical transitions. And, no, the Aristo coupler has not improved, recently virtually all GP-40's have been shown to have defective couplers, i.e. pull apart under load, 24-30 cars. With Aristo's change to a new factory, it seems there are more problems than before. (Funny though, USAT stuff has not suffered the same way, even though both are made in the same factory AFAIK by Sanda Kan). 

If you want to run long trains, get Kadees now. At under $6 a car, and cars about $60, you are only adding 10% cost to your rolling stock. If you do it as you go, it won't hurt much. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

While I and others consider Kadee's to be the best, they do have one small issue. 

If not body mounted, they will come apart on uneven track due to the trucks making the coupler flex up and down. 

If body mounted, this just can not happen. 

Unfortunately on some engines this will require hacking of the body to get the coupler mounted properly.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I use all Aristo couplers. There are pros and cons to both style of couplers. Being that I have minimal grades and 8 and 10 ft curves I can run 40 car trains without problems. By using Kadees' then one can run steeper grades and sharper curves with out problems's also.

AC did make a slite changes several years ago and put a shelf under the knucle to help elemininate the uncoupleing problem. Seems to work. I have started a project of shorting up the distance between the crs and works quite well even leaving them truck mounted. Takes about 15 min per car. sure makes a difference. I like being able to switch in the yard and use a LGB uncoupler which works great. 


I like most did the HO trains and converted every car to Kadees but when I got into G scale I said not this time. I will run with AC and save the money for other things I need for the RR. I have plenty of other projects to do without having to keep modifing cars also. So I prefere AC over Kadees. bottom line for consideration for Kaddes if you like long trains then that is most likey the way to go. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo couplers work extremely well for me. They never come uncoupled in normal use, and they are very easy to work. They aren't too expensive. I've put them on everything. But then I'm not running a finescale operation--I have a motley collection of stuff running and some of it is more "cute" than prototypical. I usually don't run really long trains either, because I have a nasty grade I can't get rid of. I can see the attraction of kadees though


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

*I switched to Kadees sometime in the mid 50s and never regretted it, so when I came *
*to LS in the early 90s and found a hodge-podge of oversized, non-compatible, an *
*unreliable junk being used for couplers, I knew right where to go to solve that *
*problem... Besides all the above good reasons to switch to Kadees, let me offer *
*another... U've all no doubt noticed that the 2 major 1/29 mfgrs R putting mounting *
*pads compatible with 830 Kadees on their rolling stock these days, do U really think *
*that their only intention is to accomodate Kadee ?? Could it be that Kadee's patents *
*R expiring on their LS couplers, and we'll soon see a flood of Kadee compatible *
*look-a-likes from the mfgrs and the aftermarket ??? Just like we did in HO 10-15 years 
ago!!! The sooner **the better as far as I'm concerned...*
*Paul R...*


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 11/10/2008 4:28 AM
While I and others consider Kadee's to be the best, they do have one small issue. 

If not body mounted, they will come apart on uneven track due to the trucks making the coupler flex up and down. 

If body mounted, this just can not happen. 

Unfortunately on some engines this will require hacking of the body to get the coupler mounted properly.

--- 




This is true, if the truck mounted couplers are not properly mounted, then the coupler tang can move upwards or downwards under load and the couplers will slip under/over each other. This particular problem is worse with the #1 Kadee couplers. However, most truck mounting configurations can be easily constrained such that the coupler is fixed in height similarly to a body mount and then this problem does not occur. The solution is different on every kind of car and loco but it can and should be done.

Body mounts just do not work in some track geometry situations. The obvious solution is to fix the trackwork, but in some cases this is not practical. Truck mounts can be made to work and are more tolerant to some particular track geometries.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By W3NZL on 11/10/2008 7:04 AM

* Could it be that Kadee's patents *
*R expiring on their LS couplers, and we'll soon see a flood of Kadee compatible *
*look-a-likes from the mfgrs and the aftermarket ??? 
The sooner **the better as far as I'm concerned...*
*Paul R...*


Paul,

You may know about the new "Kuppler" that Aristo will be introducing in the near future. I, for one, am very interested in its appearance and it will be interesting to get to know how well it works. You guys Stateside will probably have given your verdict before it hits my shores. 


I stick to Bachmann, on my Big Hauler stock and Aristo on Aristo stock, Issues are rare - usually operator generated!







The replacement of couplers has had a low priority on my RR.


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## Fred (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a LGB, Bachman, USA. and Aristocraft (more than 50% is Aristo). Since the different mfgrs don't mate with the others I chose Aristo knuckle couplers. When I would go to my local hobby shop to buy some Aristo knuckles I was told I should go with KD's (I had experienced KD's for 40 yrs in HO, knew they were good) because the KD's worked better and he sold the KD's for less than the Aristo's but I thought I would stick with the Aristos but after a couple of years I found the Aristo's to start failing in either trying to couple or uncouple. As a result I then replaced all ( lucky for me I only had about 30 cars) the Aristo knuckle couplers with KD 831's (due to some cujrves & turnouts), more $$$$ wasted. I should have gone with KD's from the beginning, I'm so much happier now with the KD's, both coupling & hand uncoupling is so much easier.


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## Art (Jan 3, 2008)

I use Kadee and Aristo couplers at the same time. They couple together with no problems and although I like the Kadee best it is easy to use either.


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## fildowns (May 17, 2008)

Posted By Fred on 11/10/2008 11:40 AM
...so much happier now with the KD's, both coupling & hand uncoupling is so much easier.

Fred makes a good point here and it's why I particularly prefer KDs. Just being able to lift out a car from anywhere in the train without having to click the couplers open or disturb surrounding cars is something I like.

Unless your track is really flat though, I would say stick with G couplers. I started out with KD #1 and they uncoupled all over the place....luckily for me I switched to G after about only 6 cars and never looked back.

There's a lot of talk about being able to play with stuff straight out of the box. And that's maybe very important for some I guess. But there's also something to be said about the fun that's to be had 'tweaking'. If I never had to adjust/add/file/tighten/glue/swap/lube/solder at least half of the stuff I buy I wouldn't have anywhere near so much fun! I don't enjoy buying KDs. But the enjoyment fixing them to a new car and the smoothness of it's operation outweighs that for me.

We may all moan about stuff that needs fixing out of the box - and sometimes it is serious and has to be sent back. But don't think for one moment that these guys that take all the pictures and then update their websites with advice don't take some satisfaction from finding that fix. And both theirs and our hobby-time is the richer for it.

Just ask GregE, RayM, PaulN to name just 3 - if they didn't have all these fixes to help us all out with what would they do with their website space and all that time eh? LOL!!


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

I am slowly converting all my rolling stock to Kadee. I have done all my motive power and am slowly working on my fleet of freight cars.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

as you can see its a "stage" or growth of your RR. I remember finally going for the steel wheels VS plastic. 
I used to never buy buildings because of the cost. Now , I'm to lazy to build them.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Another little-know tip on Kadees, is that the molds to make them meet along the horizontal center of the coupler. The inside of the knuckle is slightly "humped" in the center. This makes the couplers "overriding" themselves on vertical transitions even greater, because when the couplers get slightly one above the other, this "hump" can cause them to lift apart under great stress (like 30 cars up a 3.4% grade, don't ask me how I know!). 

Anyway, a small needle file on the inside of the coupler to flatten out the inside makes a large difference. 

Regards, Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, That's a good catch as it's something I've seen but it never dawned on me as being a factor..









Couplers failing happen in the 1:1 world too..









Al Krug


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Spent many an hour watching them, and I torture test stuff, I keep adding cars until something derails or disconnects. I stop when 40 cars runs for 7 hours straight... 

Of course, long passenger cars with body mounts added a new dimension over 40' freight cars! 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

I now have more than 300 cars & locos - mostly Aristo with their standard knuckle couplers - so changing to anything else is not too inviting.

But like Greg pointed out much earlier in this thread, I have found Aristo's more recent products to be very frustrating in that the couplers tend to pull apart (not unlatch) much too soon.
I first noticed it on the relatively new GP40s. Aristo's quality control seems to have worsened to the point of retrograding to old problems. 
The same is with the 40 foot type freight cars now reverting to their floor assemblies being wrongly oriented (installed backward), too - a practice that had gone on for more than a decade and for awhile - it seemed Aristo fix it until the latest factory move took place.

The next time Aristo makes a change to these floor assemblies, they should key them so this can't happen - and hopefully the key would be put in the correctly! 


-Ted


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, I guess even after 5 years, I'm still in the "beginning" stage with my railroad. I have converted some cars from plastic wheels to steel wheels, and will over time add more, but not real rapidly due to the cost. Regarding couplers, I early learned that mixing manufacturers' couplers was not real successful for me. Since the majority of my rolling stock is Aristocraft, I basically standardized on the Aristo truck mounted coupler. They work very well for me. I rarely have a problem with up to 35 or so cars, which is about as long a train as I pull. On the rare occasion that do have a coupler start disconnecting, I just replace it. For me with my rather poor trackwork, the Aristo's work well and are very "forgiving"!

Ed


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Hay Ed welcome to the forum. Glade to see you are having good success with your AC couplers. BTW the you can mention any manufacture you want with out having the thread locked.







Later RJD


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## Joe Mascitti (Oct 30, 2008)

Yes, the GP-40's are a nightmare....what solution did you come up with Ted....


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

None so far, Joe.

What I have been considering doing is to try Kadee couplers on the loco providing they will mate with the Aristo ones.
(Can anyone who has retrofitted Kadees to the Aristo GP40 identify the best one (number) to use and what other parts - if any - are needed?)


But my trains are waiting until I finish with my Kitchen bay window project. Working on the house is like that PBS James Burke Connections series - one thing always leads to another, and another, etc.

Anyway, the bay window will enhance the viewing of my eventual outdoor layout - which is one of the reasons why I decided to do it. I envision sitting at the Kitchen table with an Aristo Train Engineer controlling the trains outdoors.





















-Ted


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

Last year, in response to some questions on Kadee's, I produced a couple of "YouTube" video's demoing their use on Large Scale equipment







- so here they are!














Hope those will answer some of your questions!







Tom


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

One concept on coupler types is the amount of slack action.


As mentioned earlier having couplers with slack can add additional enjoyment to operations.

Many do not like coupler slack but I love it. Therefore I use the body mounted 830 coupler. This is especially useful when you have pusher service as you can easily judge where the slack is and therefore how much work the pusher is doing.


Stan Ames
http://www.tttrains.com/sjrp/


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I have had no problem with Aristo knuckles. I also like LGB's knuckles, but they are hard to find now. The only experience I had with Kadee couplers on my railroad showed me that unless I wanted to rebuild the whole thing, I should stick with what works for me. Truck mounted, oversize knuckles. Not impressed with the USA knuckles, had a pair of USA 44 tonners keep separating when trying to handle a long train.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

having come from smaller scales the Kadee is it for me .......


the video is good but on manual uncoupling rather then lifting the car I use a long reach flat blade screwdriver ... you just stick it in the center between the to couplers and give it a twist and they pop apart with out the car ever leaving the rail or touching anything but the screwdriver .... so you can spot a car anywhere you can reach.....


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

With having about the same amount of cars over 300 like Ted and over 50 engines, i have found kadees the only way to go. aristo couplers always failed for me when pulling more than a couple of cars, USA worked much better but when backing a train they derailed a lot of the time. the only factory installed couplers that seemed to work for me were the USA diecast couplers,they stayed coupled and you could back a train without problems, i have kept them on all my USA passenger cars because they work and the passenger cars will always run together.by the time i sold most of my aristo couplers to people that wanted them i was able to kadee a car for under 2.00 a car. kadees are the best for running train hassle free, not very hard to install, i use the larger kadee







.
Nick..


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Ted,
You can use a kadee #787 thats a g scale coupler on your GP-40 its the same as an sd 45. also if you want to try out kadees you can make a transision car with a kadee on one end and a aristo coupler on the other until you convert more of your fleet to kadees.....







Welcome to the world of flawless car operations...

Nick


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Nick,

Thanks for your help and encouragement and particularly for the coupler number.

I would prefer not to have a transition car with different couplers on it.
In this regard, I have read that some folks say the kadee coupler will mate with Aristo's standard knuckle coupler and some say they won't.


I also understand that there is a kadee gauge of sorts that is used as a reference to determine the proper coupler installation height above the rail head. Do you know the part number of this item, too?


I am willing to give the kadees a try. 

I usually do these kind of tasks during the rainy season, so I could order a few sample parts. Of course, converting to body mounts vs. truck mounts will be another issue, too.


The first thing I want to do is to see for myself if the kadee will couple to the Aristo coupler. Then see what the kadee coupler will pull apart at under a measured / destructive stress load.


Before I ever get involved with the expense and time to mass convert well over 300 items - I want to be damn sure it's all worth it. 


-Ted


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## Rookwood Central (Jan 2, 2008)

Am I the only person who has standardised on Bachmann Knuckle couplers? With over 100 items of rolling stock, I have retrofitted Bachmann Knuckles to all other manufacturers equipment, Aristocraft, USA Trains and LGB, with great success, virtually no unintentional uncoupling. And as for remote uncoupling, the LGB Manual ot Electronic uncouplers work great with Bachmnann Knuckles. Granted Kadees work great, but Bachmann is more economical, I have run trains up to 40 vehicles with no uncouplings enroute.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

As to the the only person who has standardised on Bachmann Knuckle couplers? Maybe not as respondents to this thread have mostly been with respect to its subject, "Kadee Couplers vs. Aristocraft".

Until recently (since Aristo came out with the GP40s) I was reasonably happy with Aristo's standard knuckle couplers. I had found that on my layout- that is very circuitous - the couplers would typically begin to distort and pull apart (not unlatch) with about a 45 car or greater train consisting of Aristo 100 ton hoppers. (With layouts having more straights - a much larger train size should work.)


I wrote an article about it that is hosted on Greg's web site at the below link
"Aristo-Craft knuckle coupler tests & a test train" 
http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/ted-doskaris-vignettes-mainmenu-157/aristo-knuckle-coupler-tests-mainmenu-206 


But it now seems Aristo's quality has retrograded such that the couplers are inconsistent in performance, and that is why I am now considering an alternative.


-Ted


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I will not desert the AC coupler and have installed there coupler on every car that I have. It's now to great of an expense to think about even the 100 cars I have. Ted you expense now be comes a burden as far as I'm concerned. Later RJD


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

RJ,

Yes it is an expensive burden (and worse, time consuming to retrofit everyting) - but I have not yet decided to go the kadee route yet.

I merely want to try and test them at this time. If it turns out kadees would pull apart not much differently than Aristo's - or if they are inconsistent, I won't use them.


-Ted


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 11/13/2008 3:28 PM
Well I will not desert the AC coupler and have installed there coupler on every car that I have. It's now to great of an expense to think about even the 100 cars I have. Ted you expense now be comes a burden as far as I'm concerned. Later RJD


Not expensive at all, sell your old couplers to pay for the new ones...







by the way a little birdy told me you have a lot more than a 100 cars sir.....








Nick...


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Ted.
The guage you need is a kadee #880 i wil try to snap a few pictures of my sd-45 w/kadees next too a aristo car with there couplers for you to look at, may save you a couple of bucks if you dont like the looks. this weekend i had a chance to run my bigboy for the 1st time with 53 cars on tight curves, never had a problem running or backing the train all day. thats the only reason why i use them. they really do work well..and in my opinion they are worth the extra $ the keep the cars going..but thats only me, others may have good luck with other brand couplers i havent....Also when you buy kadees in bulk you get a much better price, i try to buy 40 to 50 at a time and i get them for well under 5.00 each pr.
Nick...


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Hay Nick: Maybe you could float a loan to to Ted to do the conversions.







. He has lots of cars as I do but as I mentioned I'll stick it out as I do not run more than 30 cars at a time. Later RJD


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2008)

Here you go Ted, some pictures for you. i does appear that a kadee will hook up with a aristo coupler!!!! go figure...








Nick...


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks Nick, 

That looks encouraging. 

Have you tried to pull a train with that kadee & Aristo coupler combination to see if the couplers will not separate - including going around curved track? 

-Ted


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 11/14/2008 11:05 PM
Thanks Nick, 

That looks encouraging. 

Have you tried to pull a train with that kadee & Aristo coupler combination to see if the couplers will not separate - including going around curved track? 

-Ted




Yes, the Aristo/Kadee combination works fine. A railway I visit for running ops has only Kadees and I can hook up and pull cars all around without a problem.


-Brian


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2008)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 11/14/2008 11:05 PM
Thanks Nick, 

That looks encouraging. 

Have you tried to pull a train with that kadee & Aristo coupler combination to see if the couplers will not separate - including going around curved track? 

-Ted





Ted,
no i never tried to pull cars with aristo couplers only because usually no one including my self ever has any, we convert them rite away, but the car you see in the photo was a ebay buy for 25.00 w/metal wheels and i havent figured out yet how to mount kadees on it. Last weekend though we did a train show and i ran my bigboy with kadees and a large train and they performed perfect in forward and reverse......
Nick


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I tested my E8s and several other Aristo locos with the Aristo couplers before conversions. All the rest of my cars and locos were Kadees. No problems other than occasionally the Aristo loco had a slightly different height centerline. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Shame on you Nick for not converting car before putting in train.







Kadee has now banned you from converting any more cars. HeHe. Later RJD


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Shame on you Nick for not converting car before putting in train.







Kadee has now banned you from converting any more cars. HeHe. Later RJD


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## Sourdoh (Jan 6, 2008)

I use Accucraft couplers and have no trouble at all. I think they look better than Kadees. When I was in HO I used Kadees exclusively. When I switched to 1:20.3 I bought some AMS rolling stock and liked the Accucraft couplers looks. I tried them out and they were operationally good, so I never converted to Kadee. I bought Accucraft couplers for my Bachmann locos as well and almost never lose a string of cars. If I do, it's usually due to track issues.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They are nice looking couplers, but of course the thread is about Kadee vs. Aristocraft. 

Another issue that is often overlooked, I have never seen a weatherproof uncoupler for Aristo couplers. I have heard about and seen a picture of an LGB uncoupler, but not weather proof as far as I can tell. 

Has anyone had experience remotely uncoupling Aristo couplers? 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have no experience with uncoupling the Aristo knuckle remotely, but their site says the LGB remote unit will do this.


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## Tom Thornton (Nov 18, 2008)

Hi Ted I use a mix of Aristo and KD. They work well together. My layout is small with ten foot curves and I like the KD body mount so I can back twenty car trains into the yard. I will some day have all KDs but together they work fine.Why not mix the two for now with the KDs in the front of the train and the Aristos on the back. Tom Thornton


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg I found some LGB(yikes) uncouple ramps that fit in between the rails and work for the Aristo couplers. They have been out in the weather for a couple of years. Work good . they are hard to find but I bought all that the hobby shop at the time I saw them. Listed as LGB 1052. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you shoot some pictures? Are these manual or the electrical ones. I should have been specific, the remote control ones are not weatherproof I am told. 

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I have had the lgb ones on a layout outside for 18 years and they still work .... if you get the dirt out of them ....


I would rather have the dcc trigger the coupler on the loco then a part on the track


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Me too, but the cost per coupler would skyrocket! 

Scott, are your LGB uncouplers manual or electrical? 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg they are manual. Later RJD


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

they are electric ....... If I was to mount any again I would put a paver or something to help keep the dirt out as they get jamed up easy ....


ya at 20 to 30 dollars a coupler you need to pick what is going to get them ....... but then I have loads of fun with my RDC that I added a automatic coupler to drop a mail car ..... and it worked well even if it is a little hoky setup ..... of course then we will need brakes on the cars so we can cut them on a grade


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You know that Kadee showed a prototype of a remote controlled coupler, right? 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Tom Thornton on 11/22/2008 9:05 AM

Hi Ted I use a mix of Aristo and KD. They work well together. My layout is small with ten foot curves and I like the KD body mount so I can back twenty car trains into the yard. I will some day have all KDs but together they work fine.Why not mix the two for now with the KDs in the front of the train and the Aristos on the back. Tom Thornton


Thanks Tom,

Good info and that was my thought, too.


-Ted


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

MTH listed one also at one point but never made any ........

had not heard about kadee but a prototype is not a product I can buy and put on .........and it could be years or never depending on intrest


you can use a lionel electrocoupler if you are doing number one couplers from kadee as they hook right up but if you run a big coupler like I do you have to modify them to make them couple ......


or you can rig something to a LGB or Accucraft coupler to trip it Like I did on my rdc


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

When I first got started, about 4 years ago, I visited several layouts of our club members.The one thing I found out was that the ones that were using Kadee's were always having problems with cars coming uncoupled. At first I thought it might have been a fluke, but after seeing more and more of this I finally came to the realization it was common to all the outdoor layouts. The answers I received as to why this was happening was that "it's just something you have to live with" or "that unless the roadbed is perfecly flat, you will have this problem". 

The one's with the Aristo and USA couples seemed not to have as many problems and the ones using Loop & Hook did not have any. Well I went with Loop & Hook with the intent of changing everything over to one or another later down the way after the MM&G was fairly complete. Well it's been "Fairly" complete now for a couple of years and I'm still using Loop & Hook. I understand that Aristo is coming out with a new design for their knuckle couple. I'll be taking a hard look at upgrading at that time. 

I've found I like using the Loop & Hook over the standard Aristo and USA knuckle because:

- I nevering have problems with accidental uncouplings.
- They are easy to couple when backing in at normal speeds. With the Aristo you could hardly ever get a couple at normal speeds.
- I can the majority of my time operating verses leveling the roadbed. 

Ya I know, they look terrible, are not prototypical, but they work. With about 1000 feet of track on the ground, I could not spend all my time making the right of way perfecly level. So until the coupling and unintentional uncoupling issue is resolved, I'll probably be staying with the unprototypical Loop & Hook. 


Regards,
Mark


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

RE: Kadee Couplers vs. Aristocraft: Kadees are more sensitive to being at the right height, and many people do not purchase the coupler height gauge or set them correctly. Many people will just bolt them on and go. When used as truck mounts, the height variations can be quite a bit, sometimes a sprung truck is weak, or the "talgo arm" is bent or deformed. 

I have also found that in long trains, it's important to remove the "hump" inside the knuckle at the mold lines. A few swipes with a needle file is all it takes. 

Regards, Greg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, were you using the #1 or G gauge Kadees?

I've gone with all body mounted kadees for a number of reasons, some that have already been stated:

- to run and backup long trains without derails
- to ease removing of train cars as they back in my basement as you can just lift a car straight up and off the tracks without jacking with levers

Side benefits I realized:

- if a gust of wind knocks a car over that one or two cars will just tump over not taking a bunch with them because of the way they couple
- strength, these couplers are very strong
- elminated accidental uncoulpings because of coupler arm mechanisms opening the knuckle.

I also went with the G gauge size coupler and not the 1 gauge for the same reason as Greg said to allow for more variation in the track without them coming uncoupled. Was a good decision as the never come uncoupled. Don't regret the decision at all and love my kadees!

I mean if what you have works and you're happy with them as far as stock couplers then stick with them. 


Raymond


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## fildowns (May 17, 2008)

I wouldn't say I ever planned to do a lot of switching, so that wasn't the main reason I went kadee. But I if I leave a string of cars in a siding I like to be able to send an engine to go get them, without having to bump them too much to get coupled up....ok, so to leave the cars there in the first place I would have to be there, or leave a magnet...anway I like the soft touch.

On Aristo heavyweights I have body mounted KD 789s, but I have had to remove the pin, even if track is slightly uneven on a curve the pin can sometimes go below track level - the soft heavyweight truck springs contribute to this. I first thought maybe I don't need the suspension, but when I temporarily disabled the springing the trucks derailed on my bumpy track haha! So I lost the pins, I thought if I do any real amount of switching it will much more likely involve frieght cars anyhow...

The heavyweights are quite close and yet will go round 10ft curves, plus pull and push through my undiluted (as in no transitional straight) ess made from 12.5ft curves. so you can still have tighter curves + KD + body mount + long vehicles.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Kadee's work great on my outdoor track. Most are body mounted. 

If Kadee's uncouple on my RR, then my SD-45's and my RDC will derail at the same place. 

Level track is necessary for the long and 3 axle equipment to run properly as well as the kadee couplers.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have the Aristo HW's and USAT streamliners. If your trip pin is dipping below railhead height enough to cause a problem, I would endeavor to get rid of the humps, since you should have cleared the rails by 1/8" already. I do have 10' diameter curves, and one grade is 3.4%, and another is 5.5% (used downhill only), so trust me, I know what sharp vertical transitions are all about!! 

So, I really think if I can do it so can you. The first time I ran these cars I had problems, but I got the "bumps" out, and now they run great. An added bonus is that I can now run really long trains of 40 footers! 

Regards, Greg


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Raymond,
I've never have gone with any type of Kadee. When I first got started, I saw too many things going on with them at other club members layouts that convinced me to go Loop & Hook until some future date. I like the ability of the Kadee's to uncouple using the magnet. I also liked how easy they couple together at normal speed. So they have a lot going for them, but the unintentioanl uncoupling was my biggest issue. Plus if I went with truck mounting, the #785 or 831 cosmetically are a distraction. I know, picky, picky.


At some point I should get a half dozen car's converted to 'G' kadee's and see how they do on my layout now that it's well established. 


Thanks,
Mark


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