# T1 Butane Conversion



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

My friend has a T1 which he really likes but he can't handle the alcohol fumes. He asked me to convert it to butane ceramic. I don't usually do these things but he is a friend so I agreed to do it. 
When I got the engine, I was surprised to see that the firebox is only wide enough to accommodate the four wick tubes which are 3/4" wide. This meant that the ceramic plate would be only about 1/2" wide and 2' long. Not nearly enough to drive four 5/8" cylinders.



















Another friend who builds ride-on engines used propane torch tips in his fireboxes to get the heat needed for his purposes. This setup wouldn't work here because of the length of the tips. I could make replicas of the tips but with the jet holder, jet, air holes and venturi length needed, I wouldn't be able to make them much shorter
Here is the tip I would end up copying









I first made a few caps for the alcohol burner to see what the flame would look like




















Lots of flame but not something that would work here. All fuel and no air

My ceramic burners have a mixing box where a measured venturi tube picks up air through the air holes and delivers the proper air/fuel mixture for a good burn. As there was no room to have individual jet setups for each torch, i decided on this setup.
I started by making a box that would fit between the frame rails with a relief for the crossmember and made four 5/16" tips with a similar pattern to the torch.
They burned nicely at low pressure but when I turned the gas up, the flame left the tip and went out. I checked the torch again and noticed that the plate with the holes was recessed so I made some extensions out of K&S tube and that fixed the problem.









This gave me a great looking burn but I felt the box could produce more heat with larger tips so I came up with this design









I made up the new tips and set them in the box to try out


















This is what I was looking for, a nice soft but hot burn.

I tried the hole plates at different heights and decided on 5/16" down from the top and then punched indentations on either side of the plates to keep them from sliding up or down.


















The tubes were then soldered on and checked for height against the wick burner










The firebox has a stainless arch which angles from the front to the rear of the firebox which keeps the heat in the firebox longer and prevents the draft from sucking the heat directly to the tubes.
I installed the assembly in place and here is where my lack of experience showed up. I had never lit an alcohol or any drafted burner before. I tried to light it through the firebox door with the blower fan on with a spark lighter but after only two tries, I gave up and unhooked the fan. I then was able to light it but flames were coming out the bottom of the firebox and the door. I got all shook up and kept fumbling with the clips on the fan but finally got it connected. It then sprang to life with four beautiful blue flames trained on the arch which started glowing red after less than a minute. I turned the gas way down and it still produced plenty of heat. The half full boiler got up to 20 psi before I knew what was happening (under 2 minutes) and the steam blower was opened and the fan turned off just to check that operation.
I took photos of the flame at the beginning and then when the arch went radiant. both photos were out of focus but the radiant one was really bad. My friend Steve said the auto focus function of the camera was probably fooled by the UV light from the arch.
The burn was also as quiet as an alcohol one.


















I will post photos of the tender conversion when I am finished .


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, Looks like a really nice conversion.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
Thinking out of the box and adapting something with a proven design to a concept of heating up an object: works great! Your efforts, once again, has improved upon the traditional approach to an application. Thanks for sharing your concept, I am sure others will like that approach for their locomotive design.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Chuck
I am curious, on the alcohol versions, does the arch glow brightly like this or did I have the gas setting too high. It seemed like it came up to steam awfully fast


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
Yes, the baffle will get glowing hot and you seem to have the fuel burn correct.


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## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

I think the "Allen" burner has just been developed.

Regards
Steve


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

When Gordon was working with me on the gas boiler of the E6 and SRRL, he said the baffle plate should be removed on the ceramic gas as the need for directing the heat wasnt important as its more forceful. Wonder if the same here. That is one wicked burner. Very cool Bill. How does it sound? What about draft? as the flue arrangement dictate the draft, do you still run the fan and blower?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes, I don't use baffles/arches on my ceramic burners as I want the radiant heat directed directly at the crown sheet
.
It sounds great as the gas is flowing at a lower velocity. The small tips I tried at first were a little loud but the larger ones are very quiet.

Yes, I still need a fan and blower. I believe it will operate very similar to the alcohol version but without the fumes and fire risk.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Nice work! Only down side is now he has to watch the water level like a hawk as the burner isnt going to go out/nearly go out once draft is lost due to low water level as I understand happens when running on alcohol. I never have found the fumes bad to be around, and I have asthma, wonder if it was his choice in alcohol for fuel or wick settings that made it bad with fumes. Mike


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

He has COPD and I believe he has tried other alcohols
I know it makes my eyes water but I too have asthma and it doesn't seem to bother my breathing.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Kovacjr said:


> When Gordon was working with me on the gas boiler of the E6 and SRRL, he said the baffle plate should be removed on the ceramic gas as the need for directing the heat wasnt important as its more forceful. Wonder if the same here. That is one wicked burner. Very cool Bill. How does it sound? What about draft? as the flue arrangement dictate the draft, do you still run the fan and blower?


 
but jason the SRRL was created back in the 90's by roundhouse?

kinda confused as to what you mean. but my SRRL burner works fine, but it is a poker burner???


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

bille1906 said:


> I know it makes my eyes water but I too have asthma and it doesn't seem to bother my breathing.


If burning meths makes your eyes water its usually because the wicks need re-packing. Along with a nasty smell its a sign your getting too much meths at the wick and its the unburnt meths causing the problem. Fit an extra strand to each wick and try again. If it does not improve fit another etc.

DougieL


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## joanlluch (May 20, 2017)

Hi Bill, Is this still designed as a closed bottom firebox like your ceramic burner locos, with all combustion air entering through the burner, or in this case you allowed for some air entrance around the burners?. The later is the common approach for 7.5" gauge American locos running on propane fuel with torch like burners, and it requires forced draft from the smokebox and a sealed smokebox.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Dougiel
I have never run Alcohol personally, but at the NSS my eyes water and burn whenever i am around an alcohol burning engine. Not a big deal but it seems that they all can't have the wicks wrong. I may be more sensitive than most and outdoor running doesn't seem to be a problem.
joanlluch
This firebox is open at the bottom and requires drafting and a blower fan similar to the 7.5" gauge locos


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## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

I have had the same bad alcohol fumes when the burners are first lit, then when all warmed up it goes away. The fumes are quite strong if you get a face full. My Mom when to a drag race where the one car had an issue, it gave the crowd in the stands a full dosing of the alcohol fumes. Not good.

Steve


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

> but jason the SRRL was created back in the 90's by roundhouse?


 Nate, Jay is probably referring to the 7/8's SRRL that he is working on bringing to market.

Scott


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

On a lighter note, the very worst issue I ever had with alcohol fumes happened 49 years ago. I was at the Reading Terminal in Philadelphia to interview for a railroad job, and the guy behind the fumes was asking me to help him buy another drink!

Now back to the regularly scheduled thread,
David Meashey


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## joanlluch (May 20, 2017)

What's the actual fuel that's burned?. Is it PURE ethanol, such as in alcoholic drinks, which consideration for toxicity is up to everyone, or is it a less pure sort of alcohol (fuel) that may contain some quantities of toxic methanol or other harmful aliphatic alcohols?.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

joanlluch said:


> What's the actual fuel that's burned?. Is it PURE ethanol, such as in alcoholic drinks, which consideration for toxicity is up to everyone, or is it a less pure sort of alcohol (fuel) that may contain some quantities of toxic methanol or other harmful aliphatic alcohols?.


Denatured Alcohol, or (in the UK) methalayted spirits, and its not drinkable. From Wikipedia:

*Denatured alcohol*, also called *methylated spirits* or *denatured rectified spirit*, is ethanol that has additives to make it poisonous, bad tasting, foul smelling or nauseating, to discourage recreational consumption. In some cases it is also dyed. Pyridine, methanol,[1] or both can be added to make denatured alcohol poisonous, and denatonium can be added to make it bitter.
Denatured alcohol is used as a solvent and as fuel for alcohol burners and camping stoves. Because of the diversity of industrial uses for denatured alcohol, hundreds of additives and denaturing methods have been used. The main additive has traditionally been 10% methanol, giving rise to the term "methylated spirits". Other typical additives include isopropyl alcohol, acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and denatonium.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

All of us in the hobby need to recognize and learn how to properly deal with the potential health risks of all the fuels we use.

Our "alcohol" of choice is methanol at $5.00 a gallon via racing facilities.* 

Butane* is regarded as one of the more *harmful* volatile substances to inhale. So those gaseous vapors that are exiting from the fill valve and not entering the gas tank have a potential of risk if a person is over exposed to butane having inhaled too much. With incomplete combustion of butane and you get carbon monoxide and water. 

Not sure about the efficiency of gauge one locomotives relative to fuels used but I doubt it is 100%.

Bottom line is to be cautious about the breathing in fumes/vapors regardless of fuel used. Make sure you environment as proper ventilation.

Enjoy your steaming.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Good information Charles & Pete

I converted the tender the other day. It was fairly easy as I had an Accucraft butane tank that fit the bill
I set the tank in the alcohol tank compartment and determined that it needed to be raised from the floor 3/8". I took a piece of 1/8" x 3/4" brass strap and marked the tank curvature going down to a 3/8" scratch










The compartment has a square hole for the alcohol tank so My mounting bracket has the two cutouts soldered to a flat plate which will be bolted to the bottom through the four alcohol tank holes and sealed with silicone.


















The tank is mounted in place. A hole is drilled in the bulkhead for the tank valve stem and a silicone tube is routed over the now water tight compartment.









A hole is drilled and rounded off to prevent cutting or chafing of the silicone tube which is routed through the conveniently positioned tender coupler. The tube will be secured to the hole with silicone to prevent any movement or rubbing. You can see the brass bottom of the plate covering the square hole and the silicone around it.









The engine and tender are very close together which gives it a great look but there isn't much room for control knobs. The two black levers are for the throttle and blower. The brass one id the gas valve. It is fairly easy to adjust with one finger even with the engine moving.



















I ran it yesterday afternoon in the bright sunlight. 
Because the engine and tender are so close together, I wasn't able to observe the flame burn in the sunlight so i was going by the seat of my pants but it looked like 1/4 turn of the gas valve was supporting a good speed with my load car in tow. 
It didn't like my 9.5' radius track and was straining on the tightest turn so I didn't want to run it too long as it was probably wearing the track and wheel flanges.
This morning, I hooked up a long tube from the engine to the tender so I could observe the flame by looking into the firebox through the back of the cab. It seemed like it was hard to light with the strong fan draft. It has two stacks with a fan adapter which plugs one stack while the works directly on the other. I thought that I would try it on one stack while leaving the other open so I made an adapter to do this. It seemed like it worked and there was still plenty of draft to keep the fire going. I found that 1/8 turn on the gas valve was the way to light it and then open to 1/4 after a few seconds.
We will be having a steamup in two weeks where I will be able to test it out on the BAGRS 11'r track


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
Yes, that is the standard procedure when there are two stacks, normally take a coin and place over it for the initial firing until steam pressure is up and fan it off onto blower.
Are you indicating that you ran with one stack having an adapter a stack?
" I thought that I would try it on one stack while leaving the other open so I made an adapter to do this. It seemed like it worked and there was still plenty of draft to keep the fire going. I found that 1/8 turn on the gas valve was the way to light it and then open to 1/4 after a few seconds."


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Chuck
Keeping in mind that I have never run a drafted engine before, please bear with me.
The adapter on the left is the Accucraft one which plugs off one stack. The one on the right is the one I made which doesn't plug off the other stack thus reducing the draft.
I felt the strong draft was preventing the burner from lighting. when I tried it that way, the burner lit fairly easily at a low gas rate. afterwards, I increased the gas to get a good burn and experimented by holding a sheet over the open stack increasing the draft. It seemed like the higher draft had no affect on the burn so the lower draft seems to work better for this burner.
Also, being a novice at this, when I first ran it, the steam pressure started to drop. I then realized the blower was still on. I closed the blower and the steam picked up right away. so I guess the extra drafting was drawing too much cold air into the system.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
Thanks for the follow up. Seems your experimental methods again make for modifications that work.
One for the note book.


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## Skeeterweazel (Feb 11, 2014)

Thx for sharing your project. 
Hope you are able to get some video at your next steam-up.
Marty


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Happy Father's Day to everyone except Nate

I took the T1 to Roaring Camp yesterday to test it out on the BAGRS track. 
The burner is a little tricky to light. Finding how far to put the sparker into the firebox and where to have the gas level will be a learning experience but once lit it came up to steam quickly and took off after spraying everyone with steam oil.
Things went down hill fast. About half way around the track the safety went off but when it came around I saw that the pressure was only 30 psi. next time around it was at 15 psi so I shut it down.
The Accucraft safety had backed out and luckily I stopped it when I did or all of the guts would have gone airborne. Bob Trabucco had a tool to adjust it so I screwed it down to the same depth of the other one and fired it up again.
The second test was much more successful. It was able to maintain steam at speed and in fact, I kept turning the gas down till I got a nice run at 50 psi.
The site glass is small and hard to read and it looked like the tender was out of water which it was but when I tried to get the coal load off in my excited state of mind, I couldn't.
When I got it home, I checked the lubricator and it was full of water and void of oil.

This is nothing scientific just what I have found in the past, making displacement lubricators.
The amount of oil displaced is a factor of how fast steam comes into the chamber above the entry hole and the volume of that chamber.
This is a large box shaped lubricator with the entry hole considerably below the top of the box. Nothing can be done about that short of making a new one. 

If you look at the photo below, you can just see the hole below the fill hole.









To determine the size of the hole, I bent various music rods to get a go-no-go measurement, A 0.032" rod was too big and a 0.025" slid in with what seemed like a few thou play.









Sliding a rod in the hole wouldn't work because it would slide out or back into the large supply tube. I wanted something permanent but removable. So, with a needle nose vice grip I bent and tried again and again until I got this shape.









I then pushed it in and then to the side to be out of the way but still accessible with needle nose pliers.










The next problem was the tender coal load. It is beautiful looking but not very functional.








I decided to add a handle to lift it up. i wanted it inconspicuous so I used some of the .040 music wire I was testing the hole with. The handle behind the coal load is .600" wide so I made mine the same. I scribed the drill positions on the underneath of the coal load and drilled the holes out from that end. Coal is actually easy to drill out. 









I then bent the wire to the shape I wanted and pushed it through from the top and bent the legs over and secured then with JB Quick which is black. The photo is a little out of focus and the reflections hid the look but you get the idea.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

When I did the conversion I only had a couple of small jets which didn't work so I took one and re-drilled it out to #80 which is .0135". It worked well except for the hard to light problem.
I made a bunch of Jet blanks today and drilled some out to .010" and .012"
I removed the burner and bench tested it with the .010 jet and it couldn't keep the four torches lit. I then tried the .012 and it lit up right away and burned evenly.

Now the acid test is in the boiler so I put it back in, crossed my fingers and it lit on the first try. I tried it with and without the blower fan and it did just fine. A little better burn with the fan but it didn't go out without it. I had made a special exhaust stack adapter to reduce the blower fan draft for easier lighting. I felt I didn't need it any more so I replaced it with the factory one and it still lit up just fine.

As it has been said before the key to butane running is jets, jets and more jets

It's about 110 degrees today and supposed to remain hot all week so I will probably wait till it cools down to give it a track test. I still need to check the oil usage to make sure the wire I used is the right size.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I ran the engine today to check the oil usage
It used 90% of the oil in the lubricator after about 45 - 60 minutes of run. Not great but a lot better than the 100% after five minutes before.
I was actually thinking that the .025 wire was too restrictive and would rob the four cylinders of some oil but the opposite happened.
For now it will bee good as long as it is refilled after each run but since I know the hole is less than .032, then I guess a .028 or .029 would be the next size to try. 
I am nor sure of the available sizes between .025 and ,032


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bill,

Could you fit a screw with a fine point that came in from the opposite side of the lubricator body?

 Steve Shyvers


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Steve
I don't see any easy way to get the lubricator out or even access the front of it.


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