# Weatherproof DPDT with center off.



## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Hi I am wiring a wye to access my main line with Analogue track power (I gave up on DCS years ago, to stay sane) At the connection with one side of the main line I have installed a 5' long insulated section where I can stop then inverse the polarity before coming onto the main. I have wired this with a classic metal DPDT switch mounted in a PVC box and covered it with a glass yogurt Jar. After a few weeks one of the contacts seems not to work. Does nayone know of a dependable switch which permits this outdoors? With a Ten amps rating at 24 volts.
Thanks for any suggestions, Best, Simon


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## piercedandan (9 mo ago)

try this 
https://www.amazon.com/GAMA-Electronics-Waterproof-Momentary-Off-Momentary/dp/B001PNMBS0

Search for...... DPDT waterproof switch


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## Rail_Master4501 (10 mo ago)

I agree I’d rather do DC with my trains.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Side note: DCS outdoors is really tough, it's an old technology for sending signal. MTH did finally see the light and added DCC compatibility in PSIII, but now they are gone in large scale.


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## Rail_Master4501 (10 mo ago)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Side note: DCS outdoors is really tough, it's an old technology for sending signal. MTH did finally see the light and added DCC compatibility in PSIII, but now they are gone in large scale.


Its sad they had to downsize.


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

Of course, it might be suggested, in polite company, and without any insults meant; that Battery powered, radio control works Very Well too, in solving polarity problems, and rail contact weaknesses too.
Fred Mills


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And track power solves:

battery runtime limitations
paying extra for chargers
paying for worn out battery packs
being able to run smoke
having the ability to use small loco with no space for batteries
having the ability to have a nice sized speaker with baffle for great sound
And it also is on topic since the question has absolutely nothing to do with battery power.

In polite company of course....


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

You missed the most important one...

...having the ability to run trains without having to remember to charge batteries or having pre-charged batteries on hand.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

I have considered battery power, However as I have about 12 electric locomotives thats quite an arsenal of battery packs, radio control receivers, chargers and other electronic items to purchase and maintain as Greg mentioned. Added advantage though, is that it would be compatible with live steam, which track power (by two rails) is not. I must also add that having lived for many years in a world were dependable products existed, I find that I prefer relying on modern (fancy) electronics as little as possible. Todays electronics is both expensive, not dependable and there is little or no built in protection, which to my eyes is a crime. And also very little troubleshooting info. When I dabled in DCS for a couple of years, I was able to succeed thanks to Rayman (who was a terrific help) and not to any MTH notices or manuals. One of the solutions would be a battery and receiver car as suggested by Garry Raymond in Ourdoor Railroader a few years back, but for a live steam enthousiast, what would be useful is a battery run switcher to feed the road engines with cars from the yard. Unfortunatly switchers dont usually run around with a battery box cars in tow. I find that track power when well laid out (with bonding and feeders every ten to twelve yards or so) really fills the bill, in dry climate like here in the south of France, I ran all winter and hardly needed to clean the track. I have also a forty year experience in the garden.
Cheers, S Duhamel


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## piercedandan (9 mo ago)

I started in largescale with dc power outdoors and used the now very old Aristo 27mhz unit. I bought the LGB porter with DCC and also at the 2004 LGB convention bought the Mystic engine. Both are DCC and DC units. So I entered the DCC market with the DCC Zimo MX1 and used a DPDT switch to switch between DC and DCC at will. Now many years later I have a 50 /50 mix of DC and DCC engines and can reun either indoors or outside at the flip of a switch. I will NOT run DC only engines on DCC power as a constant 24 volts on a stopped engine can burn out the motor and many lights are 18 volts on LGB engines.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I like the ability to "easily" run automation with track power (e.g., station stops, leap frog, slowing, etc.).

But I don't like cleaning track and wheels and internal pick-ups continually fail and if I did it again, I would power the trains with batteries, but without the RC units.

I've come up with a way for engines converted to battery power to easily be automated to do all the same stuff that track-powered engines do, and because we always run about the same speed, there is really no need for the throttles.

But at this point, I would have to go through and rewire all of my automation features to do exactly the opposite of what they currently do. It is really just a matter of adding a switch to each that would reverse the the relay outputs (i.e., live should be dead and vice versa) but the cases are so crammed with electronic components that dissassembling them may do more harm than good.


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## Bob F (Mar 18, 2021)

toddalin said:


> You missed the most important one...
> 
> ...having the ability to run trains without having to remember to charge batteries or having pre-charged batteries on hand.


Why not both? 

Battery clearly solves the polarity problem which is how the thread began. But as mentioned, does have it's limitations and expense.
DC is simple, dependable, predictable, but it also has it's downsides as we all know. 
DCC outside is out of the question - at least in New England where weather and foliage/trees are a bane to keeping rails clean. Again, a plus for battery operation. 

Properly installed, meaning isolating the wheels/sliders from rail power, battery powered engines can run right along with their DC cousins, same rails, even different directions with the proper care and attention. But we all know that already. 
Back to the thread:
The switch (link above) is a momentary, probably not what you want for reversing, unless you plan to hold down the button while working the throttle. 

I've tried a couple of automotive switches from the popular parts shops and they proved to NOT be water/weather proof despite the packaging. 

I would suggest checking Boating suppliers and maybe PowerWerx. 

Anderson Powerpole, DC Power, Wire & Cable, Two-Way Radios | Powerwerx

Long Live DC (and Battery)! 

Bob F


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## piercedandan (9 mo ago)

I am in New England and run DCC on 300 feet of brass track outdoors (been down for over 18 years) and I have no issues. I do use a trailing car with power pickups behind my single engines. For the stainz, engine and powered tender are electrically tied with wire and I use a single decoder to run both motors. I also will drag the LGB 4021 gondola loaded with golf balls for weight with the 50050 track cleaner at times behind the engine. I do run the LGB track cleaner once every month in the summer.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I run stainless steel, after all the horrible warnings in 2000 that DCC could not possibly work outdoors at all. (In fact the constant voltage of DCC is much better than DC)

(so much for "common wisdom" about DCC needing super clean rails)

You get what you pay for.

Greg


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Actually the reason I dropped using DCS (Please note that isn't DCC) was the obligation to observe very strict protocole starting up in the yard (Indoor terminus) and frying the boards too often on an ABA F3 set by MTH. Once when I had not closed the toggle switch powering the indoor yard track where that unit was standing. At wich point it trundled away until it reached a turnout set the other way at which point the lead unit shorted out while the rear one kept pumping away; all of this while I was outdoor, and couldn't know it was happening: result shipping both A units to Raymond Manley who changed the boards and the fried motors cost= over $500 plus shipping and thankfully no custom as this was repairs not purchase - I was lucky on that one!) 

Then two years later the same unit drove off on the main and at one time I passed onto the other track at a crossover, but did not check the polarity between track one and track two. (which would have been as simple as pie just uncouple the lead unit and with the "big hook" put it on the other track). Stupidly I rearmed the receiver which was protected by a 10 amp two times in a row, result I fried the two boards again and changing them would have cost me another $500 bucks. I decided then and then to abandon DCS, which had worked quite well for over two years. It just cost me too much for electronic hardware.
For those interested, I still have a couple of crossovers and I will install some light boxes which show the polarity of each track at each of the crossover so that I can change it now before taking the crossovers; when I install the second receiver on the second track (Right now for testing all was wired to one receiver). The toggles I mention are used on a wye which links the indoor terminal with the outer oval. The other two toggles are used for crossings on a two track to four track yard throat at both ends of a long station which will be four track. The other four track section does not use crossovers. This secod one does because I wanted the main to flow like the "cosmetic curve" it is.


















The photos show these sittuations and the toggles installed in a PVC box right next to the turnouts.
Thanks Bob F for the suggestion to try a boat supply shop, especially since I am going to Toulon next week and should find one easely. Best to all,
Simon


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

By the way Peircedandan I wanted to thank you for suggesting this switch manufacturers, we had a very rainy autumn and my toggles are giving trouble again.
Cheers, Simon


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## piercedandan (9 mo ago)

One other thought for people considering battery operation. I know of 2 people losing their homes due to not monitoring the battery charging properly. I strongly suggest battery users to place batteries/charging away from their homes and garages!!


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Yes Peircedandan, I didn't want to start a polemic about battery versu track power, but your point definitly hammers that nail in. Although battery power would let me use my electrics in conjunction with live steam, I stick to analog track power as it is the simplest for me.
Best,Simon


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