# Is anyone using MRC decoders?



## jwmurphy (Aug 16, 2008)

Hi Everyone, 

I have found discussions about several brands of decoders but nothing about MRC decoders. 

Apparently these can handle up to 8 amps and 2 motored G scale locos: 

G DECODER: 8A NO SOUND AD324 

G DECODER: 8A DIESEL AD322 

8 amps, 2-digit (1-127), and 4-digit (1-9999) addressing, advanced consisting (CV19), 14,28 and128 speed steps, 6-functions (F0-F4) with MRC Light Effects (Rule 17 lighting, ditch lights, mars light, strobe light). Easy programming. Adjustable start voltage, momentum and top voltage. Handles 2 motored G scale locos. 

Do you have to have a MRC system to use them? 

How to MRC decoders compare with other brands?


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm not out to slam anything undeserved. I have the MRC G gauge generic diesel sound decoder. I never used it. I had installed about 8-10 of their decoders in my HO engines and they started failing before I finished the fleet. I installed a HO diesel sound decoder and it failed too. I have stopped buying their decoders. It is too big a hastle to change them and they don't last for me. I have their prodigy system I and it's out of use. I used to love their powerpacks? 
Buy what you want, but first I'd buy an NCE, or Digitrax, or Lenz, or =, how about qsi with sound. I've since switched to DCS, so wait for an unbiased opinion. Maybe the newer models got better? Maybe the G gauge was built better. It's in its' box still (2 years?), and maybe when........., I'll try it. Joe


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## jgc583 (Aug 17, 2008)

MRC 8 amp decoders?


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't know how good they are but I just bought some MRC AD322's (they were super cheap) so I will see how they turn out. So far I am still testing a few of them to see what sort of results I get with them. 

Regards, 

Jerry


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## simisal (Jan 5, 2008)

I bought the MRC decoders and installed one in Bachmann Annie and another one in a USA S1 diesel. The one in the annie was giving me trouble and I replaced it with a Dgitrax decoder. I still have some problems and don't think the problem was the decoder. The usa model still has the MRC and runs great. both engines have seperate sound systems installed and they work fine.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have now installed a few MRC AD322 decoders and so far I have to say that I have been very pleased with them. 

Of course I would not compare them to or expect the same quality and features as $100 - $300 decoders but for the price I have to say that I could not be happier with them. 

I now have converted a friend's old LGB 20551 White Pass two motor diesel to run both on MTS/DCC and analog power for less than $20.00. This is a bare bones conversion with just motors and lights - no fancy DCC remote controls etc. 

Time will tell how well the decoder holds up but the friend I installed the decoder for will be running this loco many hours day after day once he gets it back so that should prove to be a fantastic durability test. 

By the same token I have no actual running experience with them so I am not suggesting or recommending that anyone should run out and buy them. 

If anyone is interested I will provide more details on my installations and results. 

Jerry


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Hi Jerry, just wanted to see how they hold up in G scale, let us know, Joe


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Joe, 

So far I am very happy with the MRC AD322 decoders. I have only had one fail and that was after I had accidentally had at least 3 major shorts with it. 

I put one in a friend's loco that he will be running for many hours so I look forward to hearing from him (I will see him today) to hear how well it is holding up for him. 

Apparently these decoders are not LGB serial capable but he has no problems running his locos including switching his lights on and off with a LGB Central Station 1 (serial only). He tells me he can even ring the bell of the AD322 sound system. He is happy with the quality of the AD322 sound system preferring it to the lack of sound he had before. Since I wired his loco conventionally I had to replace his LGB 18 volt lights with 24 volt lights. 

My primary way of using these 8 amp decoders is to insert them between the track leads from the motor and the loco track lead input. This way it tricks the loco into running under MTS/DCC as if it is running under analog track power which means I do not have to worry about excess (MTS/DCC line) voltage going to smoke units, lights or other electronics. 

One word of caution is that I am not happy with the way that the decoder switches between analog track power and DCC. It has a tendency to want to go backwards before it goes forward in analog track power mode. I believe this is a result of the decoder being programmed to NMRA specs and I suspect that if I reversed my analog track operations (physically changing loco motor polarities to NMRA standards which is the reverse of what LGB and most G Scale manufacturers use) that the decoder would default to forward in analog mode rather than to reverse. 

My solution is to disable the analog ability of the decoders (CV29=0 for LGB 14 step MTS) and to put a DPDT switch in the loco to bypass the decoder entirely when I want to run in analog mode. 










So far I am convinced the MRC AD322 decoders are the best G Scale bargain I have run across. 

I bought 28 of them for $307.72 total (about the price of 3 conventional G Scale decoders). 

http://www.modelrec.com/search/product-view.asp?ID=1271 

I ordered 14 because that met the free shipping minimum but then I ordered 14 more when I realized that 14 might not be enough for myself and for my friends. 

Regards, 

Jerry 



Posted By Enginear on 09/08/2008 3:53 PM
Hi Jerry, just wanted to see how they hold up in G scale, let us know, Joe


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I have used a few MRC decoders and the only thing I have noted is that sometimes they do not respond to the f keys well and sometimes just stop running but then after a new power up work fine again ..... so just a little flakey

I also have to say the sound is not the best .....

but at $10.99 ea how can you go wrong even HO scale decoders are $20 ea ......

and we all have a few locos that are not good enough to drop a full pop decoder and sound into ......


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up. This is a great deal. I ordered one for a USA NW-2 that is on my wish list. Should be a nice fit. Thx again.


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## eatrains (Jan 2, 2008)

What's the sound like with the AD322? I assume it's pretty basic, but how basic? Does the engine noise change with change in speed and things like that?


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Quick question guys,please. Can these decoders be used with Airwire?
Thanks 
Rod


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By eatrains on 10/10/2008 4:29 PM
What's the sound like with the AD322? I assume it's pretty basic, but how basic? Does the engine noise change with change in speed and things like that?


The engine noise does change with speed and there is a bell and horn but the results are somewhat erratic and the sound is not great.

Also I think the sounds work one at a time. There is a word I can't remember for multiple sounds at the same time but I don't think these decoders do it.

I look at them as a $10.99 motor only decoder and with that frame of mind anything else is a bonus. Lets face it, $10.99 for a 8 amp decoder is unheard of.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rod, it's a strong possibility. You might have to put a resistor on the motor outputs to simulate a motor. The DCC functions to ring the bell and sound the horn should work, since those are pretty much standard. 

As Jerry says, it's only $11 so why not try it? 

Regards, Greg


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg, I shall order some today. I'll probably get back to you on the Resistor fix








Rod


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Two comments regarding the MRC AD322 decoders.

1. The friend who has run them the most reports no problems after dozens of hours of use. He does have limitations because he is running them with a LGB MTS Central Station 1 so he only has serial capability. The good news is that he burned up the first Central Station 1 by wiring it incorrectly but at $50 each he only has $100 in the burned out Central Station 1 and his new Central Station 1.

On his locos I made a regular installation with the lights connected to the decoder and even under serial operations he has motor and light controls. As a result he had to replace all his 5 volt lights with 24 volt lights. The decoders are in diesels without smoke units so that was a problem avoided.

In my personal installations I connect everything (lights, smoke, motor etc.) to the motor output of the decoder so I have no idea what works other than the motor output. This way I don't have to change any lights or smoke units to compensate for the DCC voltage.

2. The one thing I have found unsatisfactory with the AD322 decoders is their analog track power operations. When I switch to track power the locos try to run in reverse until a few volts are reached at which time they snap to forward. I am guessing that this is because they default to reverse under track power and this is probably caused by the fact that I wire them opposite to the instructions (NMRA standard?) because if I follow the instructions on track polarity I end up with reverse directions under analog track power compared to my other locos. This results (I presume) because NMRA track voltage is reversed polarity from LGB, USA, Aristo and most of the manufacturers.

When running a diesel AB or ABB or ABBA this erratic track power switching could damage couplers etc.

My solution is to either disable the track power capability of the decoders and only run AD322 decoder equipped locos under MTS/DCC or to put a DPDT switch in the locos to disable the decoder and switch directly to track power.

Strangely I discovered a benefit I had not thought of to disabling decoder equipped locos from track power operations.

Since I run primarily on track power when I want to switch to MTS/DCC I have to play a switching game of moving (driving) the track powered locos off the mainline while driving decoder equipped locos onto the mainline. This leaves me at times with both decoder and non-decoder locos on the mainline at the same time.

The result is that analog power enabled decoder equipped locos want to run under track power when I want them to stay still while I move the non-decoder locos off the mainline.

The solution has been to turn off the analog function of any decoders that are likely to be on the mainline. That means a flip of a switch to track power disables all decoder equipped locos while allowing me full control of non-decoder locos.

After I clear the mainline of all non-decoder locos I then flip power to MTS/DCC and resume MTS/DCC operations without concern for any non-decoder locos.

When I want to revert to track power operations I drive the decoder equipped locos onto sidings where the siding can be de-powered. I then move the analog locos back onto the mainline.

It sounds a lot more complicated than it is. It is working out very well.

I mainly run MTS/DCC like I did yesterday when I had a few friends over and gave them each a LGB remote and assigned a decoder equipped loco/train to each person. After they are gone I then move the locos around repositioning them for my normal track powered operations.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The erratic DC operation may well be the reason they are being "fire saled". I intend to buy a bunch. Thanks to Jerry for the "find". 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10/12/2008 7:37 PM
The erratic DC operation may well be the reason they are being "fire saled". I intend to buy a bunch. Thanks to Jerry for the "find". 

Regards, Greg


Hi Greg,

I am glad that you are going to be buying some. I am reluctant to discuss them much because I know so little about DCC and I do not wish to give incorrect information about them to anyone.

It will be great if you get some and can then give us some knowledgeable information regarding what can or cannot be done with them along with tips on how to fine tune them for various applications. I have found that the various diesel speeds are more sensitive than I would like them to be but so far I have not tweaked them to anything different from the way they came from the factory other than changing Loco ID and enabling/disabling analog operations.

http://www.modelrec.com/search/product-view.asp?ID=1271 

I converted an Aristo-Craft F-1 ABBA (four locos, eight motors) to DCC for a TOTAL COST of only $43.96! Not even a penny for shipping or sales tax.


I'm surprised they have any left.










I should mention that these are relatively large decoders which is reasonable in that they are rated at 8 amps. For reference the speaker is 2 1/4" wide.

MRC Tech Support was far more responsive than I had expected them to be.

Someone else actually told me about both the inexpensive Digitrax and MRC decoders but since he told me via private email I have left his name out of my comments.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I must have just got the last four! They are now listed as no longer available. 
Jerry thanks for the heads up .

Rod


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Rod Fearnley on 10/13/2008 11:48 AM
I think I must have just got the last four! They are now listed as no longer available. 
Jerry thanks for the heads up .

Rod 




Hi Rod,

Glad I could help.

Regards,

Jerry


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

I have on G scale 8 amp MRC in a drawer somewhere. Most decoders make the locos run much smoother when starting up. The MRCs actually made the locos run worse. I upgraded it and never used it in anything else.

I also have HO and N scale trains. I've discovered a few other things about MRC decoders in my N scale locos. I think they all have basically the same code, as I see the same problems in all of them. I have stopped buying MRC decoders.
Unknown to me, Athearn put MRC decoders in their top of the line, flagship, 4-8-8-4 Big Boy.

I bought a N scale Big Boy two weeks ago. At $375.00 is is the most expensive loco Athearn sells. I did not expect them to put the cheapest piece of junk they could find in their flagship loco.

One feature missing, and this is NOT just a NMRA recommended practice, it is a REQUIREMENT for DCC decoders:
The decoder is supposed to perform an emergency stop (ignore CV04 deceleration) when you send a GLOBAL STOP out on the track.

Well. I use the emergency stop button all the time. I get a phone call, I press the Emergency stop button and ALL locos stop. Press it again and all locos resume right where they left off.

Surprise! 
Two hours after I bought the Big Boy home, I was running it and two other trains on my N scale shelf layout.

Phone rings. I press emergency stop. The other two locos stopped. 

The expensive Big Boy with the MRC decoder just kept going. Worse, it no longer responded to any commands. Before I could get to the power switch, the Big Boy turned Killer. It rear ended a train pulled by my favorite Atlas SD60 and kept going. Out of reach, it accordioned 8 cars and then used the cars to shove the SD60 to the floor and turned my favorite baby into a five foot diameter assortment of broken parts.

Had the Big Boy simply melted, smoked or crashed to the floor I would not be so upset. It was a poor runner anyway. But, it killed my favorite N scale loco. So now, I'm down TWO locos, The SD60, which can't be repaired, and the Big Boy, which I will never run again.

I can put my own decoders in any G locos and most HO locos. For N, I only buy locos with decoders installed. MRC, and now Athearn N scale are two brands I will NEVER buy again.

The only other N scale Athearn / MRC owner I know of sent one loco back for decoder replacement three times under warranty, and twice since.

And Yes, I have asked nicely. A dozen emails and phone calls to Athearn and MRC is getting no place. It's a Bachmann shay / Tsunami pass the buck thing all over again. I would not have posted this without first giving them an opportunity to correct the problem.

Don't even get me started with the other deficiencies I found in the decoder.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Please keep going Bob, it helps to know what things I will encounter, I have a few coming. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Bob,

You made some very good comments. To keep things in perspective I don't think that anyone is promoting the MRC AD322 decoders as great decoders. Their prominent feature has been their great price of only $10.99 each (they are apparently now sold out).

In my case I've used them for several projects for which they are very well suited:

1. I have a quantity of LGB 4135s type sound systems from the LGB sound cars. I buy the cars with the sound systems, sell the cars and keep the sound systems for a net sound system cost of about $50. These are analog chuff only sound units but I am happy with them. Rather than replace them with $300 sound decoders I can instead convert them to work both with analog track power AND DCC for about $12.50 per car which is about $5,000 less than sound decoders would have cost me.

2. Some of these sound units are going into Lionel 0-4-0's that cost me about $50 each. Rather than spend $100 on a $50 loco to get it to work with DCC I can instead spend $10.99 and get them to work under DCC.

3. Same thing with LGB 2-4-0's. For $10.99 I can get them to work on DCC and for another $12.50 I can get their LGB 4135s sound systems to work with DCC. Two LGB/Massoth decoders (one for the loco and one for the tender) would have cost about $200 which would have meant I would not have any 2-4-0's able to run under MTS.

4. I have some Aristo-Craft F1 ABBA's that I was not using. For only $10.99 each I can make them work with DCC ($44 for a ABBA set vs $400 or more to do it with "good" 8 amp decoders).

5. A friend had an old LGB diesel loco with perhaps 500+ running hours on it. Rather than spend a lot of money on an old loco we converted it to DCC for $10.99 and for $50 he added MTS/DCC capability with a MTS Central Station 1.

Bob, I don't disagree with a word you said and I would NOT recommend these decoders for anyone who wants to buy a serious DCC decoder for DCC applications that involve important/critical operations. If I want a decoder to put in a LGB Mogul, Mikado, F7 or Forney it will be a LGB or Massoth decoder but for applications where price is the determining factor between a loco having MTS/DCC capability or not, a 90% cheaper decoder like the AD322 makes what was previously impossible now possible for me.

Everyone needs to figure out what their minimum standards are and for some the AD322 will not meet those standards.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Rod Fearnley on 10/13/2008 11:48 AM
I think I must have just got the last four! They are now listed as no longer available. 
Jerry thanks for the heads up .

Rod 


I thought they were sold out as well as I got an "Out of Stock" message from a Google site, but I went on the MRC site last night and was able to order 2 of them.  I'd like to see how they work.  I'll be asking a number of questions about hookup when they arrive and are ready for installation...


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Well done Stan.
Between you, Greg and Bill Swindell, I should eventually be able to get them running with my Airwire..........................









Now just to put the cat amongst the pigeons, has anyone tried them with Locolinc?
Rod


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Sure enough they must have found some more because they are once again showing as available:

http://www.modelrec.com/search/product-view.asp?ID=1271

Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Good day - I received my batch of 14 decoders today and have put some notes on my web page (see: DCC Decoder Notes ). 

I put an oscilloscope probe on each of the microcontroller's pins as I ran it through its paces and have discovered some if the pin functions. This information may come in handy as I plan on "repurposing" some of the decoders by substituting my own microcontroller for the one that is there now.



The sound was much better than I expected. Almost good if you substitute a decent speaker.


So far I have tested two units with my home brew DCC controller (see: MiniDCC controller). I hope to have time to test them tomorrow with a serial LGB MRC controller.


I'll let you know what I find.

dave


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Dave,


I am sure that everyone will be looking forward to the results of your testing.


Some additional information (from MRC) about the MRC decoders:

* PROGRAMMING MRC SOUND DECODERS ON THE MAIN USING
HEXADECIMAL CONVERSIONS FOR CVs 17 AND 18
* Due to low programming track power in certain DCC systems, programming sound decoders on the
program track may not be possible, especially trying to assign the decoder a four (4) digit address. This
programming procedure has to be performed on the mainline, where more power is available for
programming sound decoders.
If your DCC system allows simple 4 digit address programming on the main or OPS mode programming,
simply input the 4 digit address and press *ENTER*.
A second step might be needed for certain sound decoders, which would be activating the 4 digit address
by changing the value of CV29. Inputting a value of *34*, a constant, tells the decoder to use the 4 digit
address.
Some DCC systems need to have CVs 17 and 18 programmed separately to assign the decoder a 4 digit
address. *You cannot simply split the four digit address in two halves and input these into CVs 17
and 18. *A conversion from decimal numbers to hexadecimal numbers is required. Once the hexadecimal
conversion for the 4 digit address is performed, this number is then separated in two halves, converted
back to decimal values and then inputted into CVs 17 and 18 respectively.
This may sound very confusing so let us explain with an example. To perform this operation, you need a
scientific calculator or the calculator accessory on your computer. _Make sure the calculator on your
computer is set for the scientific mode.
_ For example let’s say your 4 digit address is *1998*.
1. Using the _constant _number of *49152*, add your 4 digit address to this number and convert it from
decimal (DEC) to hexadecimal (HEX). You add 1998 to 49152, which equals 51150
[1998+49152=51150]
2. Under the *DEC *setting, input the number *51150.
* 3. Change the setting to *HEX. *You will get a hexadecimal number of *C7CE*, [51150 decimal equals
C7CE hex].
4. Separate this number into two sections of two characters each; in this case, *C7 *and *CE*. This
gives you separate hex numbers for CVs 17 and 18 respectively. C7 goes into CV17, and CE
goes into CV18, but these numbers must be converted back to decimal values.
5. Enter *C7 *into the calculator under the *HEX *mode, then switch the calculator’s setting back to
* DEC. *You will get *199 *[C7 (HEX) =199 (DEC)].
6. Input the value of *199 *into CV17.
7. Enter *CE *into the calculator under the *HEX *mode, then switch the calculator’s setting back to
* DEC*, you will get *206 *[CE (HEX) =206 (DEC)].
8. Input the value of *206 *into CV18.
This gives the decoder a 4 digit address of *1998
* 9. The next step is to go to CV29 and input the _constant _decimal number of *34*. This number tells
the decoder to use the 4 digit address, along with analog disable, 28/128 speed steps, and
normal direction (locomotive forward). There are other constant values that you can input into
CV29 to change the decoder’s parameters, please refer to your decoders instructions, or to our
* CV29 Table.

* 
Don't ask me to explain it (its Greek to me).


Also:

These decoders do not have a reset cv
you have to reset the following cv's to get things back to address # 3
CV1=3
CV17=0
CV18=0
CV19=0
CV29=2
and...

Double clicking F0 [lights] mutes the sounds, 

If not using the speaker, do not use any resistor in place of the speaker.
you can run without the speaker and if space permits use the speaker with the sound off
Sound decoders like the AD322 need a lot of program track power that regular dcc systems have a hard time with. Most of the time you have to program on the main, [if your system supports this type of programming].
A system, [if it only has 14 speed steps] should automatically change cv # 29 to "4" during normal programming. 
Regards,

Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, Jerry, the results are in for the Serial MTS Controller and they are not particularly good.

The throttle works just fine and the motor operation is smooth but the sound does not operate properly. If I hit any of the function keys (1-9) the bell will operate but nothing else. My best guess is that the MRC decoder doesn't properly interpret the serial DCC data properly and it just takes the first part of each packet which happens to trigger the bell.

Not a big deal but it would have been nice if it had worked. 


I have access to a parallel MTS controller and may have an opportunity to test that someday soon - again, I'll post the results.

All things considered the unit is very good for the price! Thanks for the tip.


dave


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By bobgrosh on 10/14/2008 12:13 PM

One feature missing, and this is NOT just a NMRA recommended practice, it is a REQUIREMENT for DCC decoders:
The decoder is supposed to perform an emergency stop (ignore CV04 deceleration) when you send a GLOBAL STOP out on the track.

Well. I use the emergency stop button all the time. I get a phone call, I press the Emergency stop button and ALL locos stop. Press it again and all locos resume right where they left off.

Surprise! 
Two hours after I bought the Big Boy home, I was running it and two other trains on my N scale shelf layout.

Phone rings. I press emergency stop. The other two locos stopped. 

The expensive Big Boy with the MRC decoder just kept going. Worse, it no longer responded to any commands. Before I could get to the power switch, the Big Boy turned Killer. It rear ended a train pulled by my favorite Atlas SD60 and kept going. Out of reach, it accordioned 8 cars and then used the cars to shove the SD60 to the floor and turned my favorite baby into a five foot diameter assortment of broken parts.





Hi Bob,

I am somewhat confused by this comment.

With my LGB MTS operations when I press STOP on the remote the Central Station cuts all power to the tracks and it is not possible for anything to run. Even the caboose & coach lights go out.

On the other hand I do not think I would trust even the LGB STOP and walk away from the layout. I may be mistaken but I think I have had the power go back on before I pressed STOP again. Perhaps this is a LGB rather than NMRA function because otherwise if the Central Station depended on the decoder to shut the locos off it might be possible that an analog loco (one is possible under MTS) could keep on running.

In my case it is not a problem because normal operations are track power so as soon as I am done running MTS I switch to track power and be sure that the analog throttles are off. I even have a light that comes on warning me that MTS power is on the tracks.

I try to avoid using the Emergency Stop because of the potential for gear damage if trains should have power suddenly cut off. I can see how the train momentum could put damaging stress on the gearbox.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By dbodnar on 10/16/2008 7:03 AM

Well, Jerry, the results are in for the Serial MTS Controller and they are not particularly good.

The throttle works just fine and the motor operation is smooth but the sound does not operate properly. If I hit any of the function keys (1-9) the bell will operate but nothing else. My best guess is that the MRC decoder doesn't properly interpret the serial DCC data properly and it just takes the first part of each packet which happens to trigger the bell.

Not a big deal but it would have been nice if it had worked. 


I have access to a parallel MTS controller and may have an opportunity to test that someday soon - again, I'll post the results.

All things considered the unit is very good for the price! Thanks for the tip.


dave 



Hi Dave,

That is about what I expected under serial operations. I've been told that no US made decoders are serial capable.

On the other hand my friend with the MTS Central Station 1 (serial only) reports that he is quite happy because he has motor control, light control and sound (at least what he has is enough to make him happy).

On the negative side of parallel operations I installed AD322's so far in one FA-1 and two FB-1's. The FA-1 and one FB-1 continue to work fine but the other FB-1 has developed a mind of its own. Sometimes it feels like running and works with MTS/DCC and other times it just sits there.

The nice thing is that if I need to replace the decoder it will be an easy task to remove the old decoder and replace it with a new one just by unplugging and plugging cables.

I'm seriously thinking about cutting the cable plug locking bits so the plugs do not lock into the receptacles (to make removing the decoders easier).

I have a high tolerance level for what I am willing to accept from $10.99 decoders.

Regards,

Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

I rewired the circuit board a bit this afternoon to determine if you could trigger any of the sounds (bell, long horn,short horn, coupler) with a reed or other type of switch. The good news is that it can be done. The bad news is that you have to cut or lift four pins from the microcontroller to disconnect them from the sound circuitry. This is a very small surface mount device. For me this means working under high magnification - not one of my favorite things to do. 

As mentioned earlier, I found that pins 1 through 4 on the microcontroller operate each of the four sounds. Once the pins are lifted you can solder wires to the pads that were under the pins and connect them to switches that will activate he sounds. This could easily be done by reed switches or something similar. Each switch closure activates the sound only once. The bell must be held it to get a sequence of bell sounds as a brief connection just gives part of a bell sound. A latching reed switch could be used for that connection.

I put a photo and some other notes at the end of the web page that I started for this decoder. Click here: Decoder Notes



Stay tuned!

dave


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Dave,

The good news is that you may end up with a lot of people wanting you to customize their AD322 decoders for them.

The bad news is that you may end up with a lot of people wanting you to customize their AD322 decoders for them.

Cheers,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Today I came up with the idea of using the MRC AD322 decoders just to control the lights of the LGB 3080 series coaches I pull with the Moguls. These are almost all of the Moguls that have decoders but the current drain of the lights plus the high MTS voltage had me thinking twice about using the lighted coaches with MTS/DCC.

What is unusual is that most of my layout is in the dark crawl space under my home so I can adjust the lighting to simulate anytime of day or night but I mostly prefer to run trains in semi-darkness with the buildings providing most of the light. That means that I run lighted coaches most of the time.

I've tried it and I don't just like it - I LOVE it. I now have a MRC AD322 decoder in the first Mogul Passenger Train with the standard LGB decoder running the loco and sound plus an AD322 controlling the lights of the coaches (low speed = low light/low current drain). Eventually I may tweak it further to have a preset lighting level for the coaches.

Then it hit me - I might not have enough AD322's for the coaches so I rushed to the computer and happily I was able to order another batch (they still show some left).

Unlike some of the locos (especially double & triple headed) I am unconcerned about the DC peculiarities of the decoders because the polarity of the lights is immaterial as is any glitches in switching that polarity.

I'm not suggesting that these are great decoders or that anyone should rush out and buy them but for me it has been interesting just discovering things I'm willing to do with MTS/DCC with $11 decoders that I would never have done with $100 decoders.

If this keeps up I might even have to buy a Navigator to keep up with all the decoders I'm installing!

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I got my 5 MRC decoders today. They are sensitive to dirty track (no surprise) and sometimes the sound does not start up properly if the power has been interrupted. 

I ran the loco back and forth a few times to squish all the ants... then things were fine... 

The MRC decoder DOES respond to the DCC stop command just fine, did it 6 times in a row, so the problems Bob was having with another MRC decoder are not problems with this one. 

I spent more time pulling the 11 screws to open a USAT F unit than to hook it up for track, motor and speaker... 

Put it on the main line.... called up loco #3.... went to programming on the main, changed the long address, then went to config mode (I am using NCE so much simpler) and enabled the long address, worked like a charm. I figure I may never have to use the programming track... if you can change the address on the main, then I would suspect the other CV's will be fine. 

It was dark, so I did not do anything else, but I did honk the horn, ring the bell F3 did a short horn, F4 was some kind of coupler crash or air tank blowdown... 

For 11 bucks, no problem... 

Regards, Greg


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Rod's 4 decoders should be on the big bird headed across the pond...... Shipped them yesterday for him...

Mine haven't arrived yet. 

Thanks for your input, Greg. I'm going to try them with Airwire...


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 10/22/2008 11:23 PM
Rod's 4 decoders should be on the big bird headed across the pond...... Shipped them yesterday for him...

Mine haven't arrived yet. 

Thanks for your input, Greg. I'm going to try them with Airwire...











I keep hearing about Airwire and now about using it with decoders. I think I ran Bubbs's Hudson with Airwire but I was paying attention to (drooling over) the Hudson and the Airwire(?) just happened to be what made the Hudson go.

I guess I have to ask...

What is Airwire?

What's so great about it?

How is it different from other remote controls?

I thought it was just some sort of fancy Train Engineer.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Here you go Jerry, all the info you need about Airwire here.
http://www.cvpusa.com/doc_center/2008_LglSz_AIRWIRE_FLYER_sec.pdf
Rod


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Rod Fearnley on 10/23/2008 9:16 AM
Here you go Jerry, all the info you need about Airwire here.
http://www.cvpusa.com/doc_center/2008_LglSz_AIRWIRE_FLYER_sec.pdf
Rod




Hi Rod,

I looked at their web site and phoned them so at least now I have a better understanding of their systems.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you could interpret "fancy train engineer" as the difference between the train engineer and DCC, you would be right in there. 

Basically AirWire has their own receiver (for the motor control) that also will "output" DCC commands for a standard DCC sound decoder. 

So you can add on a DCC sound decoder and program and operate it like it was on a DCC system. 

QSI also has an add-on receiver that turns the QSI system into the equivalent of an AirWire "brand" receiver PLUS a DCC sound decoder. The add-on receiver is $80. In most cases this is less expensive than the equivalent (A Phoenix and the AirWire brand receiver). 

Now, what Rod has up his sleeve is an even cheaper combination, an AirWire brand receiver with an $11 DCC decoder. 

One piece of advice Rod, the sound from the MRC decoder is nowhere near in the class of the QSI. The bell and the horn are nice, but the diesel roar is just plain weird, it sort of throttles up ok, but at constant speed, it almost sounds like a muffled steam chuff. 

I only fired it up last night when I got home from work, will wring several of them out this weekend (will install all 5 of them). 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

What makes the Airwire (as with other non-LGB solutions) a non-starter for me is the incompatibility with serial operations and with my existing MTS controls etc. 

I like to look into the various choices but its not unlike sticking with DOS when everyone is switching to Windows. Once DOS has been learned it can take a lot of selling to convert to Windows. Sometimes it was most efficient to run both systems as long as possible.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

I will eventually get around to the QSI sound cards Greg. I have an old RS3 with a PH card in it. For the non purist, ie, my neighbours, who think it is the "Bee's Knee's" (super) It also has a weired sound similar to your description. But the horn and bells sound ok.

With using these El Cheapo's, if I blow one or two up, it's cheaper than a QSI or Phoenix. I am not very gifted electronically even when reading the instructions, so it will be a steep learning curve.
I shall post my experiences on trying to fit them and getting them to work when they arrive. Any tips, greatfully accepted.

Rod


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I've just added a MRC AD322 to a friend's LGB ATSF F7 Warbonnet.

My installations are simple insertions of the decoder between the track contacts and the loco circuit board. The result is that the only functions are motor controls and the decoder sound but the advantage is that the existing lights don't have to be replaced.

Two things I ran into.

1. after I installed the decoder into the F7 the motors did not run but the sound did. It turned out that I had not connected the shell wiring to the circuit board so the power was not able to get to the motors (my fault). Once the shell wires were connected the motors ran.

2. My LGB 55045 Programming Module was unable to program the MRC AD322 decoder (even after I removed the speaker from the circuit. Apparently the two motors of the F7 (perhaps also because I did not have the shell wiring connected) did not allow the programming (too much current draw?).

I thought the decoder was defective but I then connected it to a small loco motor (drive unit from USA NW-2) and I was then able to program the decoder without any difficulty.

Once again I was reminded of the desirability to cut the plastic hooks that are molded into the decoder jacks to make it far easier to remove the jacks from the decoder board. I don't think I have ever installed one of these decoders without having to unplug it at least once.

I opted to leave track power disabled (I think the decoder is a bit more reliable that way).

The bottom line is that for $10.99 his LGB F7 now has MTS/DCC capability and sound. He runs strictly with a LGB Central Station 1 so his operations are serial with no parallel capability but these decoders seem to work just fine when they do nothing more than to simulate analog track power functions but with MTS control.

The world of DCC gets a new loco and no one lost any sales because of the cheap decoder used. He would never have bought a standard priced decoder or any sound system and I would not have been willing to install a decoder that was more complicated than the 4 wires I cut and the 8 3M UY telephone connectors I used to make the splices.

The fact that MRC provided two each track and motor wires really made the installation simple.

Jerry

*NOTE: I reverse the decoder instructions in that I connect the right track to the black decoder leads and the left track to the red decoder leads. This is to compensate for LGB locos not being wired to NMRA standards. *


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, I use QSI decoders quite a lot. They have a programmer for downloading new sounds, etc, that works very much like the DCC programming track. I always make sure that I can turn off the smoke (duh) and the lights, and in many instances the motors. 

At one time or another, I've had to shut these off to get a good "reprogram". 

One thing is general, if I can "program on the main", I do that since you will not have any of these issues. So far, the MRC programms on the main just fine. I will try advanced consisting this weekend, but everything else has worked fine on the main. 

Does your MTS system program on the main or is it programming track only? 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10/24/2008 9:45 AM

Does your MTS system program on the main or is it programming track only? 

Regards, Greg


Hi Greg,

By" programming one the main" I assume this means programming using the Central Station. As far as I know it is only possible to program with LGB on a programming track but I could be wrong.

I'm still really a novice at this MTS/DCC thing.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Guest (Oct 24, 2008)

As far as analog conversion goes, MRC has had a spotty history. The AD320 does analog convert, but it needs DC to do it. PWC on the track will freak it out. Further, it doesn't always pick the right direction.

I usually don't bother to try to get the gray/orange and black/red polarity. I cut and try. If the engine goes in the right direction according to the throttle, the orange/gray are correct, otherwise reverse them. Once that is correct, if the loco goes the same way as an analog loco, then the red/black is correct, otherwise reverse them.

Does anyone hear a pronounced motor growl or grumble with these decoders? I see nothin gin their data sheet about high frequency or "ultrasonic" motor control.


- gws


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By gwschreyer on 10/24/2008 4:45 PM

Does anyone hear a pronounced motor growl or grumble with these decoders? I see nothing in their data sheet about high frequency or "ultrasonic" motor control.






Hi George,

I think some people have reported some motor noise. I usually am using some sort of sound system so I have not really noticed - but then I have been spending more time installing these decoders than running them.

I have had my first defective decoder. I was puzzled because it seemed to accept the programming and work sometimes but not at other times. I finally decided to replace it and try it as a coach lighting control. 

When connected to a single LGB coach (2 lights) it would work but when connected to six coaches (12 lights) the lights would not come on.

I suspect the problem may be bad or dirty relay contacts since the relay does seem to be flipping. I might figure out how to get the relay cover off without breaking something and then clean the contacts.

Today alone I've installed 5 of the AD322's (mainly for coach lighting but also in a FB-1 and LGB F7).

One nice thing was that after I put the defective decoder into a baggage car (to try it) I was then able to remove and replace it through the door by just unplugging the defective decoder and replacing it with a good one.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

George, yes, the low freq pwm is noticeable, I ran one without the sound on and you can hear it. 

I have 2 installed, and plan to get to the 3 left this weekend, and will test advanced consisting... 

Jerry, have you run these on DC yet? Is there a way to do the horn and/or bell on DC? 

Regards, Greg


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, so I'm impressed. Of course for $10.99 it doesn't take too much to impress me....









Just received my 2 MRC AD322's and decided to hook one up. It took 3 minutes and I had sound. Run up, horn, coupler, bell and a few sounds I didn't recognize or care about.









Just hooked the red and black track hookup wires from the decoder to pins 4 & 5 on TM4 in the Airwire receiver, hooked the red battery to #1 on TM1, black to #2, programmed it to locomotive #622. Addressed to back to #622 and away she went...... 

Soooooooooooooo..... For 10.99 I gots reeeeeel gud dismal sound.









Oh yeah, I forgot to say that I did plug the speaker into it's own socket.... No soldering required.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I haven't tried the lighting outputs yet, will do this weekend... but seems to have ditch lights and a strobe light as well as front and rear lamp. 

Documentation does not indicate voltage, will have to measure. 

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

voltage should be full pop ...... you have to watch current draw though


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yeah, the MRC "manual" shows the lamps connected directly to the outputs and the common... hah! 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10/24/2008 8:01 PM

Jerry, have you run these on DC yet? Is there a way to do the horn and/or bell on DC? 

Regards, Greg


Hi Greg,

No, I have not run the decoders much at all so far and very little on DC. I doubt the horn and bell can be triggered on DC but perhaps someone smarter than I might figure out how to do it.

So far my DC installations have only been with LGB 4135 type sound cards that do not have a bell or whistle/horn.

Regards,

Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg / Jerry - unless I am missing something the decoders are not designed to work on DC only - I have tried it and nothing much happens - at about 5 volts the engine sound kicks in but stops when it reaches a few volts higher - I tried reversing polarity and still nothing.

I'll be interested in finding out what you discover.

dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Was just asking Dave, I did not see anything in the "manual" that says anything about DC operation. But you never know what is "hidden" in some of these units. 

I actually read more of the "manual", it does say lights get full track voltage. Will play with it today. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By dbodnar on 10/25/2008 6:50 AM
Greg / Jerry - unless I am missing something the decoders are not designed to work on DC only - I have tried it and nothing much happens - at about 5 volts the engine sound kicks in but stops when it reaches a few volts higher - I tried reversing polarity and still nothing.
 
I'll be interested in finding out what you discover.
 
dave




Hi Dave,
 
As they come from the factory the DC function is disabled.
 
Change CV-29 to 4 to enable analog operations.
 
Under DC the sound will not work and the loco wants to default to one speed (reverse in my case but I wire reverse to NMRA standards). In my case the loco tries to go in reverse up to about 5 volts and then kicks into forward.
 
I have found the DC operations lacking and tend to leave it turned off. Instead when I want both DCC and analog operations I put a DPDT switch in to bypass the decoder for track powered operations.

Regards,
 
Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll have to give that a try, Jerry - on second thought, after seeing your observations, it may not be worth the effort!

dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I might try it, just to document it's behavior on my site, but sounds like leave the function off for sure! 

I've always been in the habit of turning off DC mode, since early decoders seemed to be more sensitive to noise and to "take off"... I was advised years ago to leave DC mode off, and I do now, even though more modern decoders are much better behaved in my opinion. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Once I get past the installation stage I will be doing some experimenting. I think that the DC functions will work a lot better if I get the default to go forward rather than in reverse - and also if I use them in single trains rather than with MUed diesels.

For me this whole DCC decoder project is as a visitor option to enable multi-user operations. 

The few times I have actually run MTS by myself it gets complicated pretty fast. If I try using one remote I forget the Loco ID when I want to switch to the other loco and if I try using multiple remotes I find I am not ambidextrous enough.

At least when I am running on track power one throttle setting controls everything. It may not be as slick or have many of the functions but the bells ring and the whistles blow while I am trying to figure out why my smoke is not working, my firebox light is out and what numbers I need to push to get them back on.

It looks like I've installed about 20 of the MRC AD322's so far including one I fried and one bad one. Another batch arrived yesterday.

I keep telling myself how much money I am saving.

Actually they are helping pay for themselves. I've (reluctantly) started to do a few installations for friends and for a total of $50 they get a sound decoder installed (no guarantees or encouragement of any kind) so for each one I install I just about get four free. 

The ones I've installed for one friend now have many hours on them and he is extremely pleased with them. 

Jerry


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Jerry, I ordered five of the decoders. Unfortunately, when they show up I won't have time to do anything with them. However, I will have them and eventually will get to try them. I'll probably end up loving them and won't be able to get any more.  Thanks for the info on them.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By GrizzlyFlatsFan on 10/25/2008 11:57 PM
Jerry, I ordered five of the decoders. Unfortunately, when they show up I won't have time to do anything with them. However, I will have them and eventually will get to try them. I'll probably end up loving them and won't be able to get any more. " src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/smile.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" /> Thanks for the info on them.


Hi George,

Like you I was concerned about not being able to get more but I wanted to give others a chance to buy them as well so I bought mine in batches (they still have some left).

The cheap price has led me to looking for other things to do with them including perhaps building lights as well as coach lights. Later I might look into remote triggering of sounds or other actions around the layout - kind of like Lionel action buildings. I know I will need some sort of power and triggers but if all the decoder does is an on/off function it should be able to be powered by the track but if the track is limited to 23 ID numbers I might even hard wire power to the decoders with an inexpensive central station capable of handling high numbers (if such a thing exists).

It is fun and interesting.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2008)

the descriptions in this thread of flakey operation analog converted are in line with my experience on an older version of an MRC decoder, the AD320. It basically doesn't work well enough to use.

- gws


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

DC operation is not mentioned in the documentation, so maybe it was never supported. I certainly cannot expect it if it is not in the docs. Maybe the lack of this feature is what caused them to close them out. (or maybe they tried to make it work and failed and "removed" that feature)


(By the way Jerry, the site says the sales are final, so if you have a defective one, don't know what luck you may have... ) 


Ran an advanced consist today with four USAT F3's , consisted in a snap with my NCE system. (have a 5th one ready, but need couplers!)


Have not hooked up lights yet, but do not expect any problems since will only be using forward and reverse.


Got the hang of the mute function.

They default to all decoders responding to the mute and the horn and bell.. weird, but man you can hear the horn(s) when you blast!


Ordered 6 more a couple of minutes ago. Need one more for a 6th loco and for a set of 4 USAT F units in freight colors, never run!


I may go completely nuts and put them in a few other locos, as a holding pattern for the QSI units, still have an NW2 cow and calf, SW4, etc, never run.

Anyway, have added a page to my site that I am updating as I learn more. *http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/dcc-battery-rc-electronics-mainmenu-225/dcc-mainmenu-29/mrc-equipment/mrc-ad322*


Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10/26/2008 11:34 PM

(By the way Jerry, the site says the sales are final, so if you have a defective one, don't know what luck you may have... ) 






Hi Greg,

With one failure out of 20 decoders (so far) that only amounts to a 5% failure rate. Perhaps it is naughty of me to mention it but I've had one defective LGB decoder in a new Mikado so even the good ones are not batting 100%.

Fortunately my LGB failure was back when there was LGB and LGB of America to take care of it so it was replaced free.

I'll check with MRC to see if there is a warranty but I will not be particularly annoyed if there is not.

While I cannot give any sort of testimonial on my MRC decoders because I have not run any of them much, a friend has been running his every day without any problems.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Since my last post I happened to look at the MRC instructions.

They say decoder returns should include a $15.00 check for handling and shipping fee. If I add the cost of my shipping the decoder to them I will easily be at the $10.99 plus $8.00 shipping cost of buying a new AD322.

I think that I will forget about contacting MRC about replacing my defective AD322.

Besides, I now have spare wiring harnesses and yet another spare 2" speaker. Every decoder I install without sound gives me an extra 2" speaker. I need to figure out something to do with all of these spare speakers.

Cheers,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Some interesting new developments...

First let me remind everyone that I am just reporting experiences a friend and I have been having with the AD322 decoders. I am definitely not making any recommendations or suggestions that anyone should duplicate what we do and if you do and something goes wrong please do not blame me. On the other hand I think what we experience is worth reporting.

1. As I was returning an older LGB F7A ATSF Warbonnet in which I had installed a MRC AD322 decoder my friend asked what would happen if he plugged his LGB F7B See-Thru with LGB factory sound into the F7A with the AD322 decoder. My response was that I had no idea what would happen and that it was possible he might fry something so I was certainly NOT going to recommend it. He decided he was willing to risk it.

Today he phoned to tell me that the F&B was working just fine with his F7A and that he was getting the LGB Factory Sound along with the track magnet activated bell and horn - and he was doing this with a LGB Central Station ONE with serial only capability!!! I will admit that I was quite surprised to hear it.

2. I was putting a AD322 into a LGB Combine for coach lighting but I was getting strange readings from the LGB 55045 PC module programmer. I could not reset the CV's to factory standard and they seemed to keep changing after I had programmed them. I had about decided I had a bad decoder but I decided to just set CV-1 to #1 and CV-29 to #4 and see what happened.

The lights in the LGB Combine worked just fine with ID#1 selecting the decoder and setting the power to step #4 the lights were the same as my other LGB coaches at that setting. For whatever reason the decoder seems to be working fine even though it did not seem so when I programmed it.

3. I had just about decided to put AD322's into all of my LGB 3080 type coach consists but after I put the first one into a coach trailing a LGB Forney without a decoder and ran it under track power I noticed that the Forney took off noticeably before the coach lights came on. This is in contrast to my LGB Moguls with decoders where under track power the coach lights (powered by AD322's) came on about the same time as the Moguls start to move.

As a result I've decided to restrict my installations of AD322's in coach consists to only those trains that are or are likely to be run under MTS/DCC or at least with locos with decoders.

4. There is definitely a noticeable flickering of the coach lights when powering the LGB 3080 series of coaches with LGB 68333 (and older style) lighting systems. Rather than trying to "fix" the flickering I've decided its not a big deal (for me anyway) and I am not going to concern myself with it. I am confident that it could be fixed for about $1.50 per decoder with a Koopmann circuit if it eventually bothers me enough to do something about it.

The AD322's seem somewhat quirky but that may be due in part to my using a LGB 55045 to program them as LGB Sound Decoders which is not what the LGB software was designed to do.

I am looking forward to more extensive results from those who know what they are doing with DCC and have the proper equipment to program and test them accurately.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have installed a few more AD322's and have some additional observations about them.

When I use them in LGB Sound Cars or to power their LGB analog sound systems I have placed in tenders the AD322's seem to do pretty well both under MTS/DCC and under track power.

I can hear the relay switching and if wired so that the default is analog forward the decoder works quite well but if the default direction is reverse (I just have to play around to confirm analog default is forward) the decoder will start up in the wrong direction (not a problem with chuff only sound boards) but when it reaches a few volts the sound momentarily stops and I hear the relay click and then the sound starts up again. I am sure that if a motor was attached it would (as I reported earlier) start in reverse and then snap to forward.

It turns out that the same is true with MTS/DCC. If the default is forward the MTS/DCC starts quicker than if the relay has to flip to opposite the default direction.

I'm sure newer decoders with electonic switching are far more precise than electro-mechanical relays but as far as I know no one offers then amywhere near the $11 price of the AD322's.

One other thing is that the decoders (at least the two that I have tried it with) do not seem to like setting CV-29 to #6 (analog enabled with 28 steps). At first I thought I had a defective filtering circuit because the sound unit kept wanting to start at full throttle. After I went back to CV-29 setting of #4 (analog enabled with 14 steps) the sound board started functioning correctly both under MTS/DCC and track power.

The LGB 55045 PC Programming Module (using LGB Sound System setting) seems to indicate that it will not program CV-29 to 28 steps but the programming does seem to take effect.

I've saved enough with the AD322 decoders that I've decided to take a chance and I ordered a couple of the discontinued MRC AD501 Power Station Eight Power Supply Boosters. I wonder if I will be able to get them to work with LGB Central Station 1's.

Jerry


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## Guest (Nov 1, 2008)

I've got 5 of these puppies.... well, 4 now as one exploded. I've written up what I've found at 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/fa_tips.html#dcc 

also posted a short video showing the sounds that it makes, both good and bad 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/AD322.mov 

- gws


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry - I am intrigued by the MRC AD501 Power Station Eight Power Supply that you mentioned - please let us know how it works out - did you order it from TrainWorld? They seem to have the best price.

thanks
dave


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By dbodnar on 11/01/2008 8:08 AM
Jerry - I am intrigued by the MRC AD501 Power Station Eight Power Supply that you mentioned - please let us know how it works out - did you order it from TrainWorld? They seem to have the best price.

thanks
dave




Hi Dave,

TrainWorld did not have any but I was pleasantly surprised to find that Gary Lantz (Wholesale) has them at a great price:

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200407077

I ordered a couple that should get here next week.

To be honest, I have no idea if they will work with LGB MTS Central Stations or not but I figure it is worth a try - especially with my $50 LGB MTS Central Station Ones that have no provision for LGB boosters.

I'll try anything if the price is cheap enough. Both Gary Lantz and MRC have saved me a lot of money so I am willing to take a risk with products from them that are beyond any reasonable warranty expectations.

Bear in mind that these MRC boosters (like the MRC AD322 decoders) are discontinued. Once again I have a fellow hobbyist to thank for my information - in this case a HO hobbyist. Many times folks are willing to share information off line that they do not wish to post on a public forum.

Information about the AD501's is not easy to find on MRC's web site but it can be found at: 

http://www.modelrec.com/catalog/item76.html

Once again we are talking about 8 year old MRC technology so I am not making any recommendations to anyone to do anything.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

George, did you try the analog conversion after setting 14 speed step mode? 

I will try it tomorrow. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I had a strange experience with a AD322 equipped tender that I think is worth reporting.

When I put am AD322 into a LGB 2-4-0 tender that has a LGB 4135s sound card in it the sound kicked off at high speed. Eventually i decided I had a defective decoder and replaced it.

Later I tried the "defective" decoder with a motor block from a USA NW-2. At first it seemed to run fine but then it again went to full speed. I then hit the STOP on the LGB Universal Remote - nothing happened and the motor kept running. I then switched to a LGB Loco Remote but the same thing happened. The motor block was at FULL SPEED and the STOP BUTTON DID NOT SHUT THE MTS CENTRAL STATION III OFF!

I then pushed the reset on the Central Station but nothing changed. I pushed it again and held it and the Central Station then reset and the decoder started functioning properly and the STOP button on the remote started functioning again.

I am not even going to venture a guess as to what happened. I cannot see how the decoder could override the STOP function of the MTS Central Station but whatever happened I think it is worth mentioning that it did happen and it it had happened with a locomotive out of reach and the plug to disconnect the Central Station was not handy there could have been an expensive accident.

Whether it was the decoder or the Central Station is somewhat immaterial regarding precautions that should be taken to assure that there is an emergency shutoff handy - even if it is nothing more than a nail or chunk of metal to lay across the rails.

Jerry


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Jerry, no way to shut everything off? That's pretty scary.

It looks like a fail-safe power shut off is needed for the track power. I'll remember that when I finally get a layout set up.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

the MRC booster should work just fine with the LGB MTS ........

it just takes track power as a input and uses that to drive a amp that mimicks the input whatever it is .....


I have had one of these in the store for year and years and could never sell it ....... not shure why most people do not like it


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Trains West on 11/02/2008 5:39 AM

I have had one of these in the store for year and years and could never sell it ....... not shure why most people do not like it 



For whatever reasons people tend to prove to be smarter than expected. The AD322 decoders seem to have significant limitations but at $11 each they suit my limited purposes.

I suspect that the same is true of the MRC AD501 booster. There are probably reasons that will show up that are perhaps limitations which make other products better for most people (and that sell for higher prices).

My hope is that the MRC booster will satisfy my limited expectations which do not go much further than motor control plus triggering sounds such as locomotive, bell and whistle/horn.

As long as I don't burn up any LGB Central Stations I hope to find some useful applications for the MRC booster because an 8 amp booster that includes a power supply sure sounds like a bargain to me and if it will work with a LGB Central Station 1 (which has no output for a booster and only provides serial operations) it will be fantastic.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By GrizzlyFlatsFan on 11/01/2008 11:56 PM
Jerry, no way to shut everything off? That's pretty scary.

It looks like a fail-safe power shut off is needed for the track power. I'll remember that when I finally get a layout set up.




I'm glad I found out the way that I did. The decoder wires were enough to hold the NW-1 motor block and keep it from going anywhere. In my case I just flipped a switch putting the layout back on track power and since the track power transformer was at its lowest setting no power was going to the track and everything stopped.

I remember Bob Grosh reporting a runaway train with a decoder that did not shut down and resulted in the destruction of his favorite loco so it seems (to me anyway) that a power shut off of some type would be a good idea for any MTS/DCC layout. For that matter even track powered layouts should have an emergency cut off because a track power remote that has a battery or signal failure can also result i a runaway train. A nail across the tracks would work but depending on the amps and electronics that would be not as good a choice as a power switch to turn off the AC power to the Central (Command) Station.

I guess a battery powered system remote control with a signal failure would sort of be like a lot of live steamers - with the operator running to catch up with his train.

This is one feature I don't care about with a lot of remote controls. Many of them shut off automatically if a button is not pushed in a fixed amount of time (to save batteries). I have chased too many trains because my remote stopped talking to them and I only found out when an accident was about to happen. This is one reason I personally prefer tethered remotes (I may be the only person in the world who does).

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Today's AD322 conversion: 










Regards, Greg


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11/02/2008 7:12 PM
Today's AD322 conversion: 










Regards, Greg
Wow, Greg..... that's quite a conversion..... A decoder in each unit? How does it sound?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

LOUD! Actually the diesel roar is kind of crummy... but for $11 who is complaining? The horn and bell is ok... 

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I think if you turn the sound off that the diesel roar will go away but the horn and bell will still work ..........


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Greg,

Your ABBA looks great!

I had started building a F1-ABBA but after I got the 3rd decoder into the 2nd "B" unit everything worked great at first but before long the AD322 in one of the "B" units got temperamental and worked less and less often. I quickly pulled it from the ABB configuration and replaced the decoder so it works well now but I don't think I am willing to trust the AD322's in more than a AB configuration (especially since my F-1's have traction tires).

I have a feeling that these AD322's are like some of the first computers - if you make it through the first 30 days they may last forever but perhaps it is not a good idea to trust them too much until you have a few hours on them.

There may be a different potential issue with ABBA's in that the decoders have a default relay position and if wired the same I can see how the first "AB" units may have a different relay default (motor polarity) from the second "AB" units. This could result in one set of AB starting before the other AB units. My installations and experiences are not far enough along to have provided any verification of anything - just impressions so far.

There may be some logic to using a different wiring polarity for half of a ABA or ABBA configuration but if so I have not yet worked it out. There does seem to be some benefit to paying attention to using the default relay position to put the locomotive in the forward drive polarity. It is easy to hear the relay clicking when it changes polarity either under MTS/DCC or analog track power. When out of the default position the relay will click (off) when removed from the MTS/DCC powered tracks. For me it seems logical for the unenergized relay to default to the forward direction (which could be the visual reverse for the 2nd half of a ABBA set).

Installing the decoders to control lights in coaches (where there are no sounds) makes it easy to see and hear the results of the relays clicking with the lights going out momentarily as the relay changes polarity. It is easy to visualize the loco reversing direction when the lights go out.

It occurred to me that (I believe) most of my factory decoders do not start to move the locomotives until 5 volts is reached. Since 5 volts seems when the AD322 relays do their switching, perhaps much of the problem could be avoided if the AD322 decoders could be programmed to not move a locomotive until more than 5 volts had been reached with the throttle.

Hope this makes sense.

Jerry


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Well thanks to all here, and particularly Stan Cedarleaf, I now have a fully functional USA Trains Alco S-4 with MRC sound via AirWire control. To some of you the sound may not be of high quality, but to me, it is very loud and quite good enough for me for the time being. At $10.00 a piece, I'm more than happy.
Until I can get some more AirWire receivers (next BTS) I shall experiment with attaching them to a Locolinc receiver, when I have time.

Thanks again for your patience.
Rod


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By dbodnar on 11/01/2008 8:08 AM
Jerry - I am intrigued by the MRC AD501 Power Station Eight Power Supply that you mentioned - please let us know how it works out - did you order it from TrainWorld? They seem to have the best price.

thanks
dave




Hi Dave,

The MRC AD501's arrived today. I will try them tomorrow but in the meantime I think this is interesting:










It seems clear that the booster should be usable without any direct wiring from the Central Station (using the Central Station to power Track 1 and Track 2 being powered by the booster which is getting its signal from Track 1.

I have copied the manual at:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Power%20Station%208-1.jpg

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Power%20Station%208-2.jpg

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Power%20Station%208-3.jpg

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Power%20Station%208-4.jpg

and it looks pretty simple.

I will let you know what I discover.

Note: I scanned the 4 page manual and ran it through an OCR so there may be an error or two in the images of the manual.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, a booster just takes a low level (low voltage and low current) DCC signal and makes it higher voltage and current.

Looks like the MRC boosters will ACCEPT a higher voltage signal. Cool, then your wiring is simplified.

Regards, Greg


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry - It looks like Greg is right - if so the wiring will be trivial - let me know how it works for you.... fun stuff! 

thanks 
dave


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Now I have to wonder about the specified input of the AD501 being 12 - 18 volts DCC signal. I've sent an email to MRC to check on it. If necessary I guess I can use non-LGB power supply with a throttle to lower the voltage coming out of the Central Station.

As a side note I found that by using a AD322 decoder to limit the voltage to the lights in six coach consists that it cuts the amps drawn by the lights down from about 1 amp to about 1/2 amp at step 4 (of 14 steps). This can make a huge difference in my ability to run multiple lighted passenger trains under the MTS 5 amp limit.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, is the output voltage of your LGB MTS system adjustable? 

Also, you could try a couple of diodes on the input to lower the input voltage from the MTS 22V to 18v.... it might be worth experimenting... 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11/04/2008 4:31 PM
Jerry, is the output voltage of your LGB MTS system adjustable? 

Also, you could try a couple of diodes on the input to lower the input voltage from the MTS 22V to 18v.... it might be worth experimenting... 

Regards, Greg


Hi Greg,

No, the LGB MTS voltage is not adjustable (other than by using a variable AC or DC input voltage to the Central Station).

On the other hand I discovered this from MRC (I'm starting to sound like a MRC rep):

 UNIVERSAL VOLTAGE REDUCER (AC/DC)
Brand: MRC
Item # AT880

Price: $9.98
  





*Capable of lowering a power pack’s top voltage output by 4 volts*

If you’ve been having top voltage issues, here’s a solution. The Universal Voltage Reducer lowers the top voltage output of the unit by approximately 4 volts. It works for any gauge and is especially useful with N Scale applications where top speeds are too fast. Installs in series between the power source and the track.

For the price I could hardly buy the parts and make it myself (by the time I paid for my gas etc.).

Jerry


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

Jerry, I've used the MRC 8 amp booster with an MRC Prodigy wireless setup with great success. As someone else pointed out, it will work between the track and base unit on any DCC setup. The drawback is, no automatic reversing capability, and I did have one go bad on me and waiting to be returned to MRC. 

As you say, wholesale trains has a great price on it. 

Peter.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Peter Osborne on 11/04/2008 8:39 PM
Jerry, I've used the MRC 8 amp booster with an MRC Prodigy wireless setup with great success. As someone else pointed out, it will work between the track and base unit on any DCC setup. 

Hi Peter,

My primary concern with the MRC Booster was whether it could process (pass through) the LGB MTS Serial Pulses. 

The LGB Central Station 1 was my primary purpose for buying these boosters both for myself and for a friend. Since the Central Station 1 does not process parallel (NMRA compliant) signals I did not expect the MRC Booster to be able to process the serial pulses which are needed for many of my LGB locos, sound systems etc. Additionally the LGB Central Station 1 does not have a connection for a LGB Booster so it cannot be used beyond its 5 amp maximum.

Another factor is that the 5 amp MTS limit applies even to the LGB boosters so if I want more than 5 amps I cannot get it with LGB MTS products. I was/am also unwilling to risk my more expensive LGB Central Station 2's and 3's trying out the MRC Booster.



Well, now I have done it. I hooked up a LGB Central Station 1 powered by a LGB 50111 power supply and connected it to one track. Naturally everything ran fine.

Then I got concerned about the LGB power supply putting out too many volts for the MRC booster so I replaced the LGB unit with a Bridgewerks and lowered the throttle to 18 volts DC and used it to power the LGB Central Station 1. Again everything worked fine.











Feeling brave I connected the MRC Booster to the MTS powered track and fed the MRC Booster power to another track (crossing my fingers and not expecting too much).

SURPRISE!!! EVERYTHING WORKED!!!

Even the lights and more important the smoke unit could be turned on and off via the Function Keys on the LGB Remote proving (to me anyway) that the MRC Booster was passing the LGB serial signals to the locomotive.

This was with a LGB Corpet Louvet that has a LGB Factory Decoder. 

I needed to see how it worked with non-LGB decoders so put a LGB 2-4-0 on the track that has a Digitrax decoder in the loco and a MRC decoder in the tender (for the sound unit).

Everything continued working just fine for the LGB Corpet Louvet and the 2-4-0.

My friend is powering his LGB Central Station 1 with a 15 amp power supply. I suggested he might as well use that for analog operations because he does not have access to 10 of his 15 amps. He said he only wants to power a single track but needs more than 5 amps.

I decided to try something so I went and got a LGB 50081 - ONE amp power supply and used it to power the Central Station 1 (keeping the volts down to 18 VDC).











The 2-4-0 ran fine on the track with 1 amp power and the Corpet Louvet ran fine on the other track with 8 amps.

I did this because my friend just wants 8 amps for a single main line so this confirmed that he should be able to use an inexpensive starter set power supply to generate the MTS signal from the LGB Central Station and to actually get the track power from the 8 amp booster.

This does not represent any sort of valid technical in depth testing and there is no way of knowing if there may be some sort of weird electronic interactions taking place that could eventually prove harmful to any of the equipment so once again I am not recommending anything to anyone.

As for my friend and I - we are extremely pleased with the results and he will soon be placing his order for a MRC AD501 Booster. We are both aware that we have ventured into untested applications with products that were neither designed or intended to work with each other. I figure that the MRC Boosters as well as the MRC decoders and the LGB Central Station 1's are discontinued and relatively obsolete so they make perfect (relatively inexpensive) subjects for compatibility testing.

If everything continues to work well we will have achieved an LGB MTS compatible 8 amp central station for a total of less than $200 that can be extended (boosted) to a multiple main-line system for less than $120 per main-line! Of course there is the built in limit of 7 loco ID's but my friend is now going to buy a LGB Central Station 2 which will increase his loco ID's to 22. 

Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry - you certainly had a busy day, and a very successful one at that! I appreciate your detailed report as it will help many of us to incorporate such boosters into our systems.

Good work!

Thanks... 


dave


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By dbodnar on 11/05/2008 2:25 PM
Jerry - you certainly had a busy day, and a very successful one at that! I appreciate your detailed report as it will help many of us to incorporate such boosters into our systems.

Good work!

Thanks... 


dave




Hi Dave,

You are welcome.

Actually until I tried it I had never given any thought to powering a LGB MTS Central Station with a 1 amp LGB 50081 Starter Set Power Supply (the idea still seems weird to me).

Once I did it and discovered that it was working my mind went into overdrive and I realized that I have several LGB 50081's that I am not using so I am going to use two LGB 50081's each with a LGB Central Station 1 and two MRC AD501's which will give me two main lines per Central Station and each main line will have 8 amps of power. Since the Central Station 1's are serial only I'll use a couple of LGB Loco Remotes that do not have the "P" upgrade to run them.

These in turn will be used primarily for my trailer (portable) layout and my outside layout for visitors to run primarily non-LGB trains with non-LGB locomotives with non-LGB decoders.

Additional (mine or friends') non-LGB locomotives can be added to the MTS roster with $11 MRC AD322 decoders.

Heck, if all I get is motor control I will be perfectly happy and if I get more than that it will be a great bonus. 

G Gauge MTS on a super low budget - I like it - its my kind of railroad.

Regards,

Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry - I love it when a plan comes together! 

FYI, I have run an LGB Central Station 2 (serial - might get upgraded when parts are around again) with an old laptop power supply (19 volts DC @ 3 amps) and with a "recovered" AC only power transformer from an old computer UPS (Uninterruptibile Power Supply) that puts out 18 volts AC @ 20 or better amps - in both instances the Central Station works perfectly.


Seems that the power is conditioned inside of the Central Station no matter what you feed it.

If you ever have a need for a smaller booster (2 to 3 amps) I can recommend the circuit that is used with the MiniDCC system (see: [url]http://www.minidcc.com/ [/url]and http://www.trainelectronics.com/miniDCC/index.htm )

I built up a few of them last week when I was debating about ordering the MRC Booster - they work well with the system I have so I decided to stick with them for now.

Have fun!

dave


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Dave,

That makes me feel a bit safer as our next project is going to be to try using a LGB Central Station 2 with a MRC 8 amp booster.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

Just completed installing the MRC decoder in a USA NW-2 that I stole on eBay. 

Project went very except that the USA blocks used only black and red wiring and were installed in mirror format which confused me until I realized I needed to wire red to black etc. What pleased me most was that by using the "special light effects" I was able to get F5 (ditch lights on/off) to control the smoke output via a RS relay. The diesel sound is prety basic, plenty loud but no comparison to the Loksound XL which I use when funds permit. The horn and bell are really decent and as someone else pointed out, still operate when the sound is muted which is nice. 

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this post to make is so succesful. I have a spare unit in case the original goes south or a SW-4 comes my way. 

Peter.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I think that what is very special about this topic is that so far there have been 2,081 views of the topic and it has remained free from the all-too-frequent "my brand vs your brand" type of arguments.

Instead we have all been able to discuss various products of known limited capabilities and even questionable dependability in a variety of ways to get maximum benefits from some of the lowest cost products available today - in spite of the knowledge that there are far better products of newer designs at significantly higher prices.

It is kind of like a guy with a very old Bachmann 10 wheeler having a friendly discussion with a fellow with a brand new Aster something (I don't know what Aster makes because they are out of my price range) with each person respecting why the other is happy with what he has and not getting into arguments about which is more important - price or features.

If anything I have learned to appreciate how much better the more expensive decoders can be and why they are often worth their higher prices. I for one have bought more of the expensive decoders than I ever would have if I had been unable to find inexpensive decoders to handle projects that would never have been worth the price of better decoders (to me).

Regards,

Jerry


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

I think that what is very special about this topic is that so far there have been 2,081 views of the topic and it has remained free from the all-too-frequent "my brand vs your brand" type of arguments.

Jerry, Thats because I have been bitting my tongue!!!! Kidding.
I'm glad that its working out for you. Th LGB stations as I understand them are DCC systems right? So they should interface with other DCC products/boosters like the MRC booster.
I applaud you for your efforts. It's great that you are sharing for others who are struggling through these systems and their architecture mismatches. I think that any dcc system should interface easily so the customer who has to do the install, then is not left with a pile of things that won't work together. For a cheap decoder to power a G scale engine is amazing. I'd still stay with the NCE 4amp myself. I never considered all the other uses for the MRC.
One thing about the MTH DCS system that stands alone. It upgrades for free, keeping it up to date with just a download. The old MRC prodigy I own just sits there waiting for a test install. The old MRC ho decoders have left me with a pile of engines that are shelf queens. I don't own the patience to reopen them for a second and third time. Maybe you find it easier because of the size and durability of the larger equipment.Joe


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not sure I would sat that the MTH system stands alone because it upgrades for free. My QSI decoders that cost much less and work in more locos and install more easily, do have free upgrades, and you can program them from the rails. Also my NCE system upgrades are free or nearly, and I get new features to boot. MTH does not stand alone in this respect, they stand well with other quality systems. 

Comparing MTH with MRC is just not apples to apples. MRC is a low cost, entry level system. MTH is a pretty well worked out high functionality system. 

Not trying to give you a hard time, just keeping the comparisons in perspective. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. Ran 5 USAT F units in AABBA consist this weekend all with AD322... all the bells ringing were wild.. (not prototypical I know)...


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Enginear on 11/09/2008 7:35 PM

The LGB stations as I understand them are DCC systems right? So they should interface with other DCC products/boosters like the MRC booster.


Hi Joe,

I am not qualified to clearly state all the differences between LGB's MTS and NMRA standard DCC components but I do know that there are many differences in how some of the MTS signals are processed such as serial vs parallel commands. I think it would be accurate to say that a factory installed LGB decoder in a LGB locomotive would respond properly to a non-LGB DCC system but many non-LGB decoders could not be as easily installed into LGB locomotive circuit boards without the potential for problems, incompatibilities or limited functions. I think many people who install non-LGB decoders into LGB locomotives first remove the LGB circuit boards and use the decoder to run everything - which can be a significantly more complex installation.

The fact that LGB 55020 or 55021 or Massoth L decoders are almost a plug and play installation make their use attractive to me for my LGB locomotives with decoder interfaces. They may not be better than other brands but they are better suited to my limited MTS/DCC skills.

To my way of thinking I no longer consider MTS and DCC to be the same thing. It is easier for me to think of them as totally different (even though this is not actually true). When I approach a LGB locomotive with a LGB circuit board having a decoder interface I approach it very differently than how I would approach a non-LGB locomotive without a decoder interface.

While I like DCS for what it does I dislike it for the complexity of it in that it takes someone like Ray Manley to have the skills to install it in anything other than a MTH loco and when it fails everything fails - no motor, no sound - nothing. With MTS/DCC a decoder can fail but the decoder can usually be removed and replaced by many different people (often the owner) or the loco can often be run without a decoder under track power.

The way I see it MTS, DCC and DCS are like apples, oranges and peaches. I like them all but while they are all fruit they have many dissimilarities.

For me what is important is to be able to discuss the good AND the bad of each one (none are perfect) without getting into trying to conclude one is better than the others.

By the same token an $11 MRC AD322 decoder is a bargain today but a $80 MRC AD322 today would probably qualify as a lemon - and yet a $80 MRC AD322 in 2001 was probably considered to be good value at the time.

My original challenge was to find a cheap decoder to do nothing more than to get a chuff only LGB analog sound car to work under DCC. The MRC AD322 along with $1.50 worth of resistors and capacitor have done that. My next challenge was to get a $50 LGB Central Station 1 to run two mainlines with 10+ total amps and a $120 MRC AD501 booster has done it for me.

Some of my sound systems cost me $10 each on eBay. Many would find them unsatisfactory but my standards may be lower than theirs. What is important to me is to be able to find products that meet my sometimes lower standards and prices I am willing to pay.

Tomorrow I might run a MTH Big Boy with DCS, the day after I might run a LGB Mikado with MTS, the next day I might run a Aristo F1 ABBA with DCC and the day after I might run a LGB Stainz on track power and for Christmas I might run a $10 battery powered train. I like them all - I just run different ones at different times.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Enginear on 11/09/2008 7:35 PM

The old MRC ho decoders have left me with a pile of engines that are shelf queens. I don't own the patience to reopen them for a second and third time. Maybe you find it easier because of the size and durability of the larger equipment.Joe



Hi Joe,

I meant to add that I agree with you.

I have had to take some engines apart to reprogram or replace MRC decoders (sometimes to reprogram them when I could not program them while installed). I am willing to do this because (as you said) the size of the larger equipment makes it easier. I even cut the tabs on the MRC decoders to make it easier to remove them from the locos.

I have other locos such as LGB Forneys and USA locomotives that I have had apart several times (with non-MRC decoders) that have really frustrated me because I really hate to take them apart - partially because I often break something when I disassemble them.

I have several of them that have been waiting (for months) for decoders or sound systems because I keep procrastinating about taking hem apart again.

Some people (like me) with big hands and little patience are well served with products from LGB and MTH that came ready to run with all the goodies already installed by people who knew what they were doing. Even my $10 radio controlled trains ran perfectly right out of the box once I put batteries in them.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2008)

I am beginning to not trust these MRC AD322 decoders. I had another one go weird on me today in that same B unit. 

This time it was running MU with the A and it just stopped. The A unit couldn't drag it. I took the body off expecting to find a nuked decoder, but it was visually fine. I put it on the programming track and it reported it's address. Hmmm... put it back on the main, dead. 

I put it back on the programming track and sent it's address again, seemed fine. Put it back on the main, it worked. It appears to be running ok again, but the pair of locos draw more current that they should, almost 3 amps on the rails while running light.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By gwschreyer on 11/10/2008 12:03 PM
I am beginning to not trust these MRC AD322 decoders. I had another one go weird on me today in that same B unit. 

This time it was running MU with the A and it just stopped. The A unit couldn't drag it. I took the body off expecting to find a nuked decoder, but it was visually fine. I put it on the programming track and it reported it's address. Hmmm... put it back on the main, dead. 

I put it back on the programming track and sent it's address again, seemed fine. Put it back on the main, it worked. It appears to be running ok again, but the pair of locos draw more current that they should, almost 3 amps on the rails while running light.


Hi George,

I would tend to agree that these MRC AD322's would not be my 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice for a loco I would plan to run a lot.

Like you I installed them in A and B units (Aristo F1's) only to find that two ran fine but the 3rd ran "occasionally" and at other times it did not run at all yet it kept its programmed address and when it would not run the B unit it would still power one or two LGB coach lights but not 12.

On the other hand I've installed them in a friend's 3 locos and he now has many hours on them with no problems to report.

I can hear the relays clicking even when I do not get power which makes me want to take the relay cover off and clean the contacts - just to see if that might fix it.

So far I have installed about 20 of them and have had two confirmed bad (one was my fault - I fried it) ones (I am NOT saying that the other 18 are OK - most have not been run more than a few minutes).

I am inclined to think of these like the old IBM PC clones - if they ran 30 days you were probably home free.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think these decoders can glitch every so often. if things seem strange, I just reverse direction or interrupt power. I had my first erratic one last weekend, direction was fine, but in a consist it ran the wrong direction. Will play with it this weekend to see if it's just got something wrong in the consist registers. No failures yet. Will torture test them in a consist and see what happens. 

Regards, Greg


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

There is one really usefull thing about the MRC AD322 decoder. The connector that connects the wiring harness to the decoder can be unpluged and use on an LGB circiut board that has the newer 10 pin mts plug. This alows you to wire a non mts decoder with ease. and at 11 dollars it is alot cheaper than Massoth's adadpter.


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

Back to the AD501 booster. I will have two when the one that went south returns from MRC. 

I had originally planned to stay with just one AD501 to connect my second loop which has a cross over track, currently switched manually via a DPDT switch, but replace the DPDT with an automated reversing unit. I know that would work. But now with two AD501, I was thinking about hooking the second (one as illustrated in the diagram in the manual) directly to the isolated second loop. So when a train traverses the cross over, the ploarity would not match, creating a direct short. So would I need an automatic reverser for both boosters or just one of them? I think one, as the solid state reverser I'm going to use would probably detect and switch polarity before the second (unprotected) AD501 detected the short. 

Opinions? 

Peter.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The autoreverser should be connected to the insulated "reversing loop" track. It should detect and reverse "polarity" before the booster shuts down. 

Quality autoreversers can be set/configured to do this. I like the PSX-AR from DCC specialties. 

Regards, Greg


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

The PSX=AR is the model I will be using, so I like your opinion. Guess I'll need to wire them up and test it. Peter.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Peter, be sure to get the heat sinks from Tony's when you get the PSX-AR... they are recommended when you go over 9 amps... They are cheap, but hard to find in the right size, but Tony has them in stock. 

Here's the stock unit










Here it is with the heat sinks and the optional sonalert (beeps when there is a short)










Regards, Greg


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

I already have the PSX_AR collecting dust, and since the AD501 is limited to 8 amps, I may be safe without the heat sink. I tend to run 2-3 locomotives at most, so I doubt if I'll be taxing the unit. But next time I order something from Tony, I'll try to rememeber to add them to the order. 

I see you live in sunny (smokey?) CA, but does you unit reside outside in a project box? 

Peter.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, it is out doors, it sits in the electronics stack:










Which sits under an inverted landscape drain "box", (I forgot the correct term):











Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Greg,

That looks like it might hold and protect a car battery which I will be using to power my railroad crossing lights and bell (my other project).

Can you give me the rough dimensions and where you got it?

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

12 x 12 by about 18", it's in the irrigation section in home depot. it normally goes upside down from the way you see it, and the drain grate on top. You can see where drainage pipes connect to it. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

In case anyone is interested I found that there is a MRC-DCC forum (perhaps for technical help with the MRC products). It is at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MRC-DCC/

Jerry


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## pohlmeyr (Nov 16, 2008)

Well this has been a great thread for me. I stumbled across these cheap decoders and thought i would give a few a try. I had problems with previous version of the MRC decoders (AD321). So far i have ran this little engine with 3 LGB cars with metal wheels behind it for 2hrs. At the end of the 2hrs it was running a little slower and could not climb the 1-2% grade. I gave it a little more on my throttle and it evened out. I also increased the starting voltage and CV29 is set to digital only. Here are some pics to enjoy. 

Thanks 
-k


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## pohlmeyr (Nov 16, 2008)

One more picture


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Keith,

Did you use the MRC AD322 or the Digitrax DG583S?

If using the AD322 I think it is a very good idea to disable analog operations (as you have done).

I installed another AD322 in an additional Aristo-Craft FA-1 and before I turned analog off I found that it would go all the way up to 10 volts in analog going forward before it finally decided to put itself into reverse.

I think they are at their best with single loco digital only operations and while I have now set up two PRR FA-1/FB-1 sets I don't think I will trust the AD322's enough to run them as an ABBA set.

Have fun,

Jerry


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## pohlmeyr (Nov 16, 2008)

Yep i used the MRC AD322. I am going to put another one in today when i get a chance.


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## Guest (Dec 7, 2008)

The AD322 uses a relay to control reversing. There has to be sufficient track voltage in analog most to close this relay, so at low track voltages, it will run only in the direction in which the relay is relaxed.

In my installations, the relay seems to want to click in going forward, so that the locos will analog convert defaulting in reverse until the track voltage gets high enough to activate the relay

- gws


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> I've just added a MRC AD322 to a friend's LGB ATSF F7 Warbonnet.
> 
> My installations are simple insertions of the decoder between the track contacts and the loco circuit board. The result is that the only functions are motor controls and the decoder sound but the advantage is that the existing lights don't have to be replaced.
> 
> ...


This is funny...

As it turned out my friend ran the heck out of his F7's eventually to the point of giving them to me. Then his MTS stuff gave out.

Now I was going to set the F7s up for MTS but did not know how to do it and just found this old topic of mine telling me what to do - complete with my old pictures.

AND I STILL HAVE SOME OF THOSE AD322's left!!!

Funny,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I do too, but they don't live very long, they often latch up and kill themselves. I use them for temporary installations, often on USAT with the quick and dirty method.

Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have never recommended the AD322s other than to say that for 10 bucks or so they were worth playing with. I now have two *free* extremely heavily used LGB F7AB's that I hesitate to put expensive decoders into. The rest of the F7s have or will have LGB or Massoth decoders In them.

I have very low expectations for the AD322s in these F7's but it is so easy to take an F7A apart and put in an AD322 that I am willing to try it even though I fully expect it to fail.

I still have a Thomas the Tank and a Lionel 0-4-0 that have AD322s in them that still work (not well) but they are used so in frequently I wouldn't even care if they were damaged.

Perhaps the best use for an AD322 is to use it to learn a bit about DCC without worrying about damaging an expensive decoder.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree Jerry, we have the same expectations, and they were indeed a good deal.

At 10 bucks a pop, worth it, although that diesel motor roar is pretty weird sounding ha ha.

Greg


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