# Which controller?



## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

I have a Piko #38216 on order, which is supposed to be delivered next week. This loco can be operated with Analog DC or DCC.

I am considering buying an MRC Power G 10-amp to run it.

Should I be looking at a DCC system? And which one?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

https://elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=35&Itemid=65
Read the 10 sub pages, listed at the bottom of that page.

Then if DCC is for you, you can start exploring that.

Greg 1,114


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Track power DC is OK, but you are limited with sound type engines for 2 track magnets to activate sounds usually bell and whistle.
DCC engines on DCC layouts have many sounds and other capabilities such as remote control of servos, smoke, lights.

Be sure to read Greg's site for info on what different systems can do or can not do.


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Got to do some more reading today, including the link above.


Am looking at either this for DC...

https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/mrc/power-g-10-amp-pack-ag990/


Or this for DCC...

https://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/mrc/prodigy-pro-elite-10a-0001417/


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Go with a better DCC system. NCE 

http://www.reindeerpass.com/ncepowerpro-10rdccset.aspx


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Treeman said:


> Go with a better DCC system. NCE


You're paying for it, right?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

not all dcc systems are created equal

Greg 1,111


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I look at all specs for DCC. It is very important to me that I can get 24 volts to the track, and many DCC systems can not do that. If the voltage spec is missing then I always assume they are voltage limited. Just stating G scale is not enough.
Of course running older engines speed (read 24 volts) is not important, but a fast passenger train needs 24 volts. (Note the Acela in the town next to me hits 160MPH every day).


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Are you going to expand your layout and go for multiple engines to run multiple trains? DCC may be over kill. 
I have 2 trains and I have less fun trying to control 2 at a time ....
Since the passenger train stays whole and doesn't do switching I'm downgrading it's control to an automated unit that will make station stops that are triggered by track magnets. The controller can make those optional/random. The other train gets an R/C throttle and my full attention.
http://www.gscalegraphics.net/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
My layout is across the driveway away from electricity so I use on board batteries for power.
Before you spend is the time to read about other methods. R/C doesn't have all the doo dads of DCC, but I don't miss it, your mileage may vary.

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you run consists (multiple locos on the same train) that's another reason to run a more sophisticated remote control. Diesels rarely run alone (for reliability reasons and power reasons), double headed steam locos more rare, but boy does it look cool!

Also helpers, pushers, etc.

Depends really on what you run... if you run narrow gauge short line, maybe more rare, but lots of times they had steep grades and did need 2 locos.

But he also wants to run diesel.

Overkill is necessarily a bad thing, with the number of small R/C companies going out of business. DCC will be here for a long time, it is extensible and heavily supported with multiple manufacturers. Remember you are not FORCED to use extra features, you use what you want. My DCC system is easier than the Crest/Revolution system, so we have to watch some of the "old" information that was correct 20 years ago.

Greg 1,108


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Huh? What? said:


> You're paying for it, right?


I have all of my inventory paid for.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Lame attempt at a discount price?

Seriously HW: (Huh What).... a lot of people show up, want a complete education without much research, ask questions about all the options, and then after a month or so say "oh, my budget won't allow "(fill in the blank)" ....
*
It's good to list up priorities for budget, number of locos (starting and future), control system, etc. This will actually help you make a decision more easily,* and honestly lower the frustration of people helping you when they find out the detailed information and knowledge they gave you was a waste of time. 

I've had more than one new person delve into the intricacies of a particular topic, only to be dismissed later with "I can't afford that".

Why the diatribe? Because of your comment of "You're paying for it, right?"... If there are budget limitations, use those to narrow the scope of your options right up front.

For example, the Revolution system will do a ton of stuff inexpensively, but it vs. DCC is dependent on budget, future expansion, quality of sound desired, reliability, etc.

Sorry for the long post, I really try to help, but you can wear people out too!

Greg 1,106


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Sorry for the delay in answers. I'll try to get to it tomorrow. I'm in the middle of my work week. I only work 14-16 days a month, but they are very long days. Just got home. Going to bed so I can get up at 3 Am and do it again.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ouch! Fireman? Deep sea drilling platform? 

Get some rest...

Greg 1,103


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Diagnostic electrician at a copper mine.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Stay safe, open pit or underground?

Greg 1,101


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Del has been a strong business for long time and has expanded his line just fine.
I merely offered an alternative while it's pertinent, now when he's learning. Why so defensive? Is DCC so frail?
I turn off the sound more than I have it on ... 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The OP asked specific questions about DC and DCC for a specific loco, no questions about RC and no questions about battery power.

I believe in addressing the questions asked, rather than something not asked about. 

This is the old battery power people on the track power thread thing again. 

True, battery power might be another option, but specific questions were asked about powering his new loco, and his new loco is not battery.

"Is DCC so frail?" ha ha... prove your point by denigrating the opposition? old technique, works on some people, I guess.

Greg 1,100


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Stay safe, open pit or underground?
> 
> Greg 1,101


Open pit.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm no expert, but I like it better when I can look up and see the sky! Thousands of feet down gives me the willys.

Have a good one!

Greg 1,098


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Huh? What? Where in AZ? TW is near Tucson and I'm in Sierra Vista 60 miles or so southeast.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I got this:

Huh? What? lives in "What? Where?" AZ... just makes sense!

Greg 1,087


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

When it comes to track voltages, I would agree with Dan and Greg that if you have the finances, go for a system that can provide maximum voltage to the track. At that price point, it's a significant investment, so you may as well get one that has the potential to do a lot that you may not be doing right away. 

Having said that, if you don't need it, why pay for it? Save the money for the other (likewise pricey) things you're going to need.

From a functionality standpoint, there's nothing wrong with the MRC Prodigy Elite system. It works very well. The throttle is easy to use. You can upgrade to a wireless handheld, and also a WiFi adapter to use your phone to control your trains. You can also interface it with your PC. Its limitation is its 15 volt output. You're not going to get your streamlined passenger train up to 100 mph at 15 volts. If you don't run streamlined passenger trains at 100 mph, are you going to miss it? 

One other thing to consider--the space you have available. Even if you do want to run trains at higher speeds, are they going to look "right" in the garden? Long trains running at high speeds tend to look like they're chasing their own tails on small railroads. There's an aesthetic balance between train and garden. Smaller spaces tend to work better visually when the trains are smaller and run a bit slower. 

Your money, your trains, your call. Again--I have nothing against the NCE system recommended, but the less-expensive alternatives are certainly worth looking at if they fit your needs and your budget better. 

Later,

K


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Alright, I am doing primarily steam. It is unlikely that I will be doing any really long or really fast trains for the near future. I am starting in a 16' x 21' area that is being turned into my wife's fairy garden. 

Phase 1 is an oval with a couple of sidings.

Phase 2 involves tunneling into the garden shed that the initial area backs on to, then exiting the front wall of the shed to circle the koi pond.

Phase 3 is a line out of the fairy garden and down the side of the house, around the corner to the rear of the house to a raised station along the back deck.

There are at least two more phases planned.

My only loco is a piko steam loco that is DCC. I probably could do my initial running with DC, but since I have a dcc-equipped loco, why not go dcc? I can comfortably afford the MRC unit right now, the NCE unit at an additional $125 is pushing it right now, which is why I asked about the MRC unit, and not the NCE unit.


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

fyrekop said:


> Huh? What? Where in AZ? TW is near Tucson and I'm in Sierra Vista 60 miles or so southeast.


I'm north of Phoenix.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The MRC unit will be fine for what you're looking to do. I've got an older (less powerful) MRC Prodigy Advance2 which I use as my bench test command station. I had the Elite here on loan for a short while, and really liked it. The digital read-out on the command box is nice to have. MRC's WiFi add-on makes using your phone to run your trains very easy if you want quick-and-dirty wireless control. (The WiThrottle Lite app is free to download.) MRC also makes a wireless version of the Elite. 

Later,

K


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Thanks.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry, the prodigy is crummy.. 15 volts to the track is 13 volts to the motor, unacceptable.

This is why I have about 1000 posts left. I completely disagree with the glowing report and there are other limitations. You can buy a much better system for less money. 

Greg 1,084


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Sorry, the prodigy is crummy.. 15 volts to the track is 13 volts to the motor, unacceptable.
> 
> This is why I have about 1000 posts left. I completely disagree with the glowing report and there are other limitations. You can buy a much better system for less money.
> 
> Greg 1,084




For instance?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would not try to use a 15 volt supply for a DCC engine. My DCC engines on DC need at least 7 volts to even start the motor. And the sound projects from Zimo can limit the engine speed to 1/3 of the top speed. Sure if you have a dcc controller these can be changed, but why bother when there are systems available for over 20 volts. I have seen used DCC systems cheaper than the new Bridgewerks/MRC/USA Trains large DC supplies!!
Go with a big robust power source and never have to buy another in the future.


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Dan Pierce said:


> I would not try to use a 15 volt supply for a DCC engine. My DCC engines on DC need at least 7 volts to even start the motor. And the sound projects from Zimo can limit the engine speed to 1/3 of the top speed. Sure if you have a dcc controller these can be changed, but why bother when there are systems available for over 20 volts. I have seen used DCC systems cheaper than the new Bridgewerks/MRC/USA Trains large DC supplies!!
> Go with a big robust power source and never have to buy another in the future.


For instance?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg, you are perfectly free to disagree with my "glowing report." (Given our history, it's quite expected that you would.) That's why this forum is so great. Multiple users from multiple operating environments with multiple experiences can all share them for the benefit of others. The reader can then learn from everyone, figure out which person's operating environment is most in tune with their own, and make their own determination from there. There is no "one" way to do anything.

The loco in question in this example is a Piko 0-6-0, running in a small space, hence slow-to-moderate (prototypical) speeds. I have that 0-6-0 (the non-DCC-equipped version). I put an Aristo Revolution R/C throttle in it with a 14.8v Li-Ion battery. There's no reason that loco needs a higher voltage, in fact, I have the throttle limited to about 75% of that, even. I also wrote a review of Piko's DCC decoder. If memory serves, they had it in their 2-6-0 for the review, but it's the same motor block as the 0-6-0. Anyway, my Prodigy system proved quite capable of running that loco at very prototypical speeds. That's why I always suggest a modeler evaluate the environment and the kinds of trains one will be running to see if the less-expensive, lower-voltage systems would be sufficient. They're not always going to work, but if they can, why not? "A penny saved is a penny spent on a new loco instead." 

I would echo Huh? What?'s request for info on a less-expensive, more capable DCC system. I've looked at Lenz, Digitrax, and NCE. None offer a 10-amp DCC system at that price point. They may have cheaper systems (NCE's PowerCab, Digitrax Zephyr) but they're all in the 2-3 amp capacity range, and even lower voltages than the MRC. (NCE's PowerCab literature expressly states it's not suitable for large scale.)



Dan, I would heartily agree that if you're running a _DCC-equipped_ locomotive in an _analog DC_ environment, then a 15 volt _analog _power supply is insufficient for the reasons you mentioned. However, I'm referring specifically to a DCC system that puts out 15 volts, and running that loco on DCC. In that environment, for the locos and speeds in question, it's perfectly suitable. 

If one were looking for a recommendation for an _analog DC_ power supply, I'd suggest 18 volts at a minimum, and at least 5 amps for a good "all around" supply. Bridgewerks is great, but pricey. MRC's big G-scale unit also gets good reviews. I think there was a thread either here or on LargeScaleCentral about analog DC power supplies recently. My "rig"--though not very attractive--consists of a regulated power supply (switchable--either 14 or 22 volts), an Aristo 10-amp controller, and an Aristo PWC/Linear converter, which can be bypassed to suit my needs. Probably $150 or so if I were to have to source all the parts today. 

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, but he does not need a 10 amp unit, 5 is probably fine for what he has described. In that range there's a wider selection of better quality equipment.

MRC has a reputation for poor quality DCC stuff. Would you like a handful of blown up MRC AD344's? Which would you like, the ones with blown regulators, blown output transistors, or locked up microprocessors. Have a stock of each.

Greg 1,079


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Yes, but he does not need a 10 amp unit, 5 is probably fine for what he has described. In that range there's a wider selection of better quality equipment.
> 
> MRC has a reputation for poor quality DCC stuff. Would you like a handful of blown up MRC AD344's? Which would you like, the ones with blown regulators, blown output transistors, or locked up microprocessors. Have a stock of each.
> 
> Greg 1,079



So, you are completely against the MRC. That is clear.


What components would you suggest in it's place? Keep in mind that the MRC Prodigy Elite Pro 10 amp can be had for as low as $289. And my cap on the budget is around $350.

Give me some examples of specific systems you would suggest that are better than the MRC, and not much more money.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

MRC's decoders are a different story. No need to send me your dead ones, I've got my own stash.  Their command stations are of far better quality. Mine's certainly given me no grief, and I've since expanded its usefulness to my On30 line. I also operate regularly on a large HO line which uses MRC's Prodigy system. I can't think of any limitations in either of those environments. We recently added MRC's WiFi interface there, so I use my phone as my throttle. 

With regard to the command station specs, would you agree that for a given voltage need, it's more advantageous to have a higher current capacity than extra voltage? If I recall, you recently replaced your venerable 10-amp NCE system with a 20-amp Zimo system (at significant extra cost). That tells me you definitely see value in having extra current capacity. Lights and accessories don't care how fast they run (if they move at all), but they certainly add to the potential current draw of a system. I can tell you my money would go towards the system with the higher current capacity. My battery stuff runs off of 15 volt batteries, and I've modified the speed curve on almost all of them to limit the top speed. Higher voltages would be worthless; I'd just end up programming my decoders for even lower speed curves. What advantage would I gain?

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I give up, it's too much wasted energy fighting a moderator on this site. Twisting all the facts to support a part of the hobby that he has little experience in.

For the people not drinking the Kool-Aide, my reasons and needs are different from HW's, so bringing what I did for myself as an argument AGAINST me is not necessarily HW's needs and wants.

You can find me on other forums where the moderators do not attack the members.

Greg, 1,076 - counting down


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg, you have an unfortunate habit of misinterpreting my questions as attacks on you. Nothing could be further from the truth. You stated there were alternatives to the Prodigy Elite at its $300 price point. I--and HW--asked which ones, as my searches for a comparable 10-amp system have come up quite empty. Your response was that since HW didn't really need 10 amps, a 5 amp system would work. (Though you still stopped short of actually identifying which systems those might be.) 

Let's stipulate that I wouldn't need more than 5 amps (small railroad running one loco at a time), and that my speeds are slow, so I don't need more than 15 volts. Let's say I have two choices--Brand X: 10 amps at 15 volts and Brand Y: 5 amps at 20 volts. The prices and functionality of the two systems are the same. Let's also stipulate that the quality of the two brands is equal. 

Which would you choose? Is it more important to have added capacity for current (more locos and lights) or more voltage (higher speeds)?

My take is that the DCC architecture is framed around the probability of running multiple trains at once, therefore a higher current capacity should be the paramount consideration. If the voltage is sufficient for my needs, I should opt for the system which provides greater current.

Later,

K


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would caution all that running a DCC equipped engine on DC power that I have experienced that those with a pulsed power output will confuse the DCC decoder in that it will not know if the power is DC or DCC.
I did create a filter much like what the Crest/Aristocraft revolution had for diltering out the pulses and then the DCC equipped engine ran on a DC system.

Note that momentum features are pulsed power.


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

My question remains the same. It has been said that there are better systems out there for the same or less money. 

So, which are they? Specifically.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you want my opinion "Huh What", read my signature. I'm no longer responding in this thread.

Greg 1,084


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

I've read your site. It has a lot of good information, and I learned things from it. 

It did not, however, answer my question, which was simply this.

What better systems are there out there right now that I can get a power supply, command station, and controller and not be out of my budget, which is, right now, $400 more or less?

Trust me, I've been looking.


Is anyone willing to try and give me an answer to that question?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Here's what I've been able to find: 

*MRC Prodigy Elite* - 10 amps, 15 volts $300

*Digitrax EVO Evolution Advanced* - 5 amps, 15 volts $350 (8 amps with additional power supply purchase)
*
NCE PH-Pro Power* - 5 amps, 20 volts $400, plus cost of power supply (not included)
*
Lenz Digital Plus 100* - 5 amps, 16 volts (literature says it's adjustable up to 22 volts) $420

(Prices are from the web.)

The MRC is the only 10-amp system right out of the box. Digitrax can be increased to 8 amps with a new power supply. NCE can be increased to 10 amps with the purchase of an additional 10-amp booster and power supply. Lenz Digital can be increased to10 amps with the purchase of an additional Lenz power station. In all of those cases, increasing to 10 amps will put you over your budget. 

Of those, I have used NCE and MRC. I like them both. I know both of these systems are easy to integrate with a PC and/or WiFi control. I have not used the Digitrax or Lenz systems. I've heard mixed reviews on Digitrax, with most complaints centering around the user interface. There are plenty of folks using it who seem perfectly happy with it. I've not heard much about the Lenz stuff. They've got an overall good reputation for quality, but I can't speak to how widespread their command stations are in use.

Piko makes a DCC system (5 amps, 22 volts) but it's not exactly budget-friendly. 

You could also go the DIY route. If you've got a PC, you can interface it with a Sprog3 interface, which gives you (for the large scale version) 18 volts at 3.5 amps output. The Sprog 3 will run you $138. Download the JMRI software (free), the WiThrottle Lite app to your phone (also free), and run your trains from your phone through your PC. If you're leery about the 3.5 amp limit, you can run the output of the Sprog through a Tam Valley Depot booster (5-amp peak) for an extra $50 plus the cost of the power supply for the booster. You may be able to use a 10-amp booster (NCE makes one), but you'd have to research how to wire it. That, and by the time you add the cost of the 10-amp booster and power supply plus the Sprog3, you've got a 10-amp system that can be driven by your phone--the same thing you've got with the MRC system, which still costs less, even with the extra cost of the MRC WiFi plug-in.

If there are other systems out there, they are doing a tremendous job of keeping themselves hidden. Some of the manufacturers do have "very basic" starter sets (NCE's PowerCab, Digitrax's Zephyr, and similar) but they're very low current, low voltage products--not suitable for large scale. I suppose you could hook their output to a Tam Valley Depot booster as well, but--again--to what advantage? 

Later,

K


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

Thanks for the reasoned response. That gives me some options to look at. I've looked at the NCE setup. If I put off buying for another two weeks (_whimper_) I could afford it, even with the extra cost of the power supply. I've done some reading on the Lenz, as well, but it appears to need to buy a separate power supply, which puts it above my budget.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Good luck, whichever path you follow!

Later,

K


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would go with a system that can go over 20 volts. You can get 24 volt 6.5 amp supplies that are adjustable by +/- 2.4 volts from mpja.com for under $30.00
http://www.mpja.com/24-Volt-Power-Supply-65A-150W-Switching-Hengfu/productinfo/16032+PS/
Of course the best ones are meanwell but do cost more.3

On Ebay is a new NCE system at $385 with free shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NCE-PH-PRO-...879183&pid=100677&rk=1&rkt=14&sd=122359624001


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## locomansounds (Jul 7, 2017)

That's a great system.


Treeman said:


> Go with a better DCC system. NCE


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

MERG is another DCC system that can be had on the cheap, and can handle 24 volts 10 amps as well, plus computer control and all.


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## Huh? What? (Jun 20, 2017)

It's running!

I ended up with the MRC 10-amp setup, for now. by the time I need more, I'll be able to pick up more.


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

*Oh help*

Jumping in here and hoping that it is appropriate 

Just restarting my LGB 'train set' giggles

I have miles of track and I do mean miles BUT for now this will be one or maybe two indoor tracks eventually a big garden layout.

MOSTLY little trains BUT with a few LGB hill climbing rack locos the steam and the electric versions.

Also I have a few Stainz locos that need a total refurb. 

Also I have some old Playmobile DC locos running on Hornby Zero One

Also I want a track cleaning loco and a Crocodile just because I can and want one.

Also I expect to run a few trams, LGB ones probably . 

Hopefully a few scratch built kit built Glasgow trams (I need to find 45mm tram bogies) and a modern flexy tram are planned IF I live that long.

THE QUESTION(s)

I am NOT sure about going DC or DCC? 

DCC

I have looked at the Massoth kit and there is a possibility I can buy a used one with two controllers at a very sensible price . I have also looked at the Z21 system which looks great, doubly so price wise and is much cheaper than the Massoth kit. BUT using my iPhone or iPad as a loco/ train controller seems to lack something, the tactile element. 

DC

In the good old days of OO gauge I built my own controllers with momentum acceleration and prototypical braking.

Now I am wondering short term if I should 'initially' use LBG controllers OR others? I would have thought they need to be around 5A or more I think.

OR should I build my own controllers and just use a switched power supply

RC

I have a few Playmobile RC trains too and was thinking maybe long term out in the garden Battery and RC might be less of a problem with track continuity issues, with live steam being an option too.

OBVIOUSLY  I want all singing dancing Locos with syncro sound and syncro puffing smoke too plus electric points which is where the DCC seems to win.

thanks


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As you were answered on other threads, you should NOT use the LGB controller, since you already exceeded your 1 amp unit with your LGB F7 AB ...

If your priorities are cost, sure go ahead and build controllers.

If your priorities are time, or a professional looking cabinet, but one.

The question of track vs. battery power is a long argued one, if you are going to have a lot of locos, track power will be cheaper, since you already have track.

If you are only going to have a few, and are not willing to invest in good electrical connections between track sections, go battery.

And your last statement does not fit what you are willing to do, clearly you want things cheap, but you want sound and puffing smoke...

Set your priorities and budget. I noticed on another forum you were debating on buying a bunch of track, but you never came back to that thread and indicated if you did or did not.

Bottom line, there are logical ways to get to the answers you want, but the decisions depend on you setting priorities that are real. Don't set any and you will twist in the wind not being able to make up your mind, investigating endless options that are a waste of your and other's time.

Greg 833


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> As you were answered on other threads, you should NOT use the LGB controller, since you already exceeded your 1 amp unit with your LGB F7 AB ...
> 
> _Confused is me, and you obviously too, assuming that you are replying to my post (always dangerous) I have never said NOR do I want a LGB F7AB....loco. I am not into America diesel locos I am a STEAM GUY have driven full sized BR locos when I was young Black Fives and Jubilee's All my relatives either built steam locos (NB LOCO AKA DUBS) or drove them even my father, step father and uncle were 'steam' engine drivers. My uncle a main line Glasgow London express train driver.
> 
> ...


So there you have it my logical reply to your post

again kindest regards


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

*Having my cake and eating it*

WOW it looks like I can have DCC and R/C battery

http://forums.mylargescale.com/40-rc-battery-operations/73954-simple-battery-conversion.html


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Yes, you can most certainly have DCC in a wireless "deadrail" environment. The Airwire "Convertr" series of receivers are very good, as are Tam Valley Depot's "DRS1 Hi-Power" receivers. I've pretty much settled on using them as my main means of control, pairing them with whichever flavor of DCC decoder best fits the loco I'm working on. 

Check out the Dead Rail Society's web page for the latest on wireless control systems--not just DCC-based, but many different protocols. They cover all scales, and many of the lower-current systems can be used in large scale locos which will be used in light-duty situations. I use 1- and 2 amp boards in my smaller large scale switchers with no problems at all. They'd be fine for small trams as well. 

Enjoy the journey, and feel free to ask whatever questions you may have along the way.

Later,

K


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

THANKS looking at balloons and Y track configurations and a turntable plus all the necessary electronic trickery it looks like for 'ME' with a complex and 'complicated' layout DCC- R/C -battery and dead rail are the way to go.

Still a bit misty though but learning lots more and I found a lovely web page 

DCC for DUMMIES (like me) 

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/track.htm

Years ago I used good old Hornby Zero One stuff on LGB/Playmobile locos with some success, lacking in Voltage and Amps of course as it was designed for OO gauge locos. It is all in a box in the loft somewhere


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

In the above reference, it pertains mostly to the smaller scales and unfortunately for large scale one would need a head light (24 volt or wire the dual beam light with the elements in series) for a current limiter instead of the brake light (1156) bulb.


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

East Broad Top said:


> Yes, you can most certainly have DCC in a wireless "deadrail" environment. The Airwire "Convertr" series of receivers are very good, as are Tam Valley Depot's "DRS1 Hi-Power" receivers. I've pretty much settled on using them as my main means of control, pairing them with whichever flavor of DCC decoder best fits the loco I'm working on.
> 
> Check out the Dead Rail Society's web page for the latest on wireless control systems--not just DCC-based, but many different protocols. They cover all scales, and many of the lower-current systems can be used in large scale locos which will be used in light-duty situations. I use 1- and 2 amp boards in my smaller large scale switchers with no problems at all. They'd be fine for small trams as well.
> 
> ...


 I flew R/C Helicopters slope and thermal glider and a few electric jets both ducted fan and pusher props so have two nice programmable Futaba T9CP transmitters laying about. As well as lots of servos big and mini and a few mini up to 9 ch receivers so all I would need would be a 14.8 V battery and a bigger ESC and I could make a cheap and cheerful 'power/control' wagon as a starter for ten

Both the Airwire and the Tam Valley Depot's kit look interesting BUT I note that the TVD kit comes in a Euro frequency whereas the Airwire is as far as I can see only available in 915MHz 

I have also found someone doing 2.4 GHz receivers with built in ESC so assuming they would bind to my Futaba TX that maybe a good starter option 

http://www.micronradiocontrol.co.uk/product/deltang/dt_rx65.html#dt_rx65-1-n

DelTang Rx65 DSM2/DSMX Receiver for Land-Based Vehicles
Print version

_Click on image for a larger version._
Rx65 DSM2/DSMX 18V Receiver with 3A Bi-Directional ESC

thanks


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

David;

A few of us here have tried ducted fan drives on rail vehicles.









The main problem is that we never seem to have enough straight track to really open the throttle.

Best,
David Meashey


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

HE HE only Missing Wings  

Remember take-offs are optional landings never are 

Crosswind Thread Drift 

I just remembered I have twenty lengths of five foot track BUT how do I save the ducted fan driven 'vehicle' at the end of that track......mini parachute?

YOU ARE WICKED for diverting me in such a way 

View attachment 45921


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"IF the answer is 42 what is the question?"

And I see that you have also read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

Best,
David Meashey


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave Meashey said:


> "IF the answer is 42 what is the question?"
> 
> And I see that you have also read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
> 
> ...



The question is known, the mice settled on: "How many roads must a man walk down?"
the answer: 42.

Scot


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I will just FLUFF this one off!!


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

Dave Meashey said:


> "IF the answer is 42 what is the question?"
> 
> And I see that you have also read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
> 
> ...



YES and NO *4*.*2* Million Pounds 

Is the cost of refurbishing the Flying Scotsman .


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