# Why 1:24 scale ?



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Every issue of GR that comes out it seems like there are X new product offerings in 1:24 scale. Why? (And don't tell me because it is so easy to work with. Calculators have been around for better than 38 years now.) There are very few 1:24 locos left. Most are 1:22.5 or 1.20.3. So why would I want a 1:24 scale building sitting next to a 1:20.3 locomotive? I guess they may be good for perspective when placed back away from the track. I do see that some bridge builders now offer plans in other scales, but the guys making the buildings just don't seem to want to give it up!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Most building parts and detail stuff likely was originally intended for the dollhouse market, which is still a larger market than trains and where 1/24 is more common. 

At 1/2 scale its also likely they are hedging there bets and going for a scale thats inbetween 1/22 and 1/29 and could therefore be used on either


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

For my uses, I like 1:24. There are a plentitude of automobiles & trucks available in 1:24 so they look right parked next to the buildings. The locos I own are 1:22.5 OR 1:29, so a 1:24 building doesn't look too out of place as the train goes speeding past. Also, for scratch building the structures (which I mostly do) 1:24 is a common doll house scale so doors, windows, and other details are readily available at the hobby shop.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Besides dollhouse (or half dollhouse, since the more popular scale for them is 1:12) it is/was also used quite a bit in real world ARCHITECTURAL MODELING...so it is just natural that many building drawings be scaled at 1:24. Detail stuff can also often be sold to architects to finish presentation models for far more than to people who play with trains. Not only are we a niche group, our niche is splintered into several factions based on a rather small difference in scale. 

And I haven't even mentioned the (rather larger than ours) hobbies of 1:24 plastic car modelers and die-cast vehicle collectors. 

If you want model in a different scale then you need to (and I quote Clint Eastwood's Gunnery Sgt Tom Highway character in the movie "Heartbreak Ridge" ) "Improvise, Adapt, Overcome"....or in prain engrish, make it yourself, make do, or live without.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Reason #2, independent from outside forces: The majority of folks in large scale are "run what I like" modelers, and don't care much, or at all, about scale. As such, a 1:24 building is a nice compromise between the 1:29/1:32 and 1:22/1:20 ends of the spectrum. Even if they run standard gauge stuff one day then narrow gauge stuff the next, they don't have to swap out the buildings to be "close enough." Now, whether building and accessory manufacturers would actually garner a larger market if they stuck to oen end or the other is open for debate, and likely unprovable one way or the other. 

Later, 

K


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

1:24 exists so you can model 42 inch gauge. I bet there was one... someplace.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 04/26/2008 6:20 PM
1:24 exists so you can model 42 inch gauge. I bet there was one... someplace.




Yep, lots of them, all over the world. Enough of them concentrated in South Africa that 42" is sometimes called "Cape Gauge", lol


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 04/26/2008 7:23 PM
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 04/26/2008 6:20 PM 
1:24 exists so you can model 42 inch gauge. I bet there was one... someplace.

Yep, lots of them, all over the world. Enough of them concentrated in South Africa that 42" is sometimes called "Cape Gauge", lol





Ah! So.... yes... now... ummmm.... 

How many 50.75 inch gauges were there for all the 1:29 scale modelers /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I have no animosity towards 1:24 scale, but I do wish they would offer a wider variety of vehicles in 1:20.3 scale /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 04/26/2008 8:53 PM 
I have no animosity towards 1:24 scale, but I do wish they would offer a wider variety of vehicles in 1:20.3 scale /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif" border=0>" border=0> 




One word, "Money"..... If they felt there were enough buyers (or buyers with deep enough pockets to make small runs worthwhile) they would. 

Having tried (and am still failing at) to make a bit of scratch selling stuff in the hobby sector I've found that you often can't make enough people happy to make it worthwhile. If you were to produce a lovely 1:20 scale model of a '48 Ford, some people would complain they wanted a '49, or a Chevy, and others would say they won't buy it because it isn't detailed enough, or if it IS detailed then it is too expensive, or it's not available in the right color, or, or, or..... 

I've met a LOT of nice people, but some days I start to wonder if you were to sell hobbyists (as a group) $1 bills for 75c that they wouldn't complain because they were wrinkled...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't cha have any Fives?


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 04/26/2008 6:20 PM 
1:24 exists so you can model 42 inch gauge. I bet there was one... someplace.

In the world outside North America it's called the Cape Gauge, invented by Carl Abraham Pihl, CE of the Norwegian State Railways in 1860's. I can't find any details of his use of this gauge in Norway, though, and I'm sure to be looking in the wrong place. 
It is in CURRENT use in New Zealand, 95% of the continent of Africa, Japan [except the Shinkansen], Indonesia, The Philippines, Taiwan, Costa Rica and Ecuador, part of Queensland in Australia. 
It was adopted in Canada by the Toronto & Nipissing Railway in the 1870's, as well as the Toronto Grey & Bruce Railway around the same time. They were incorporated into the GTW around 1881, and the narrow gauge went out of use. 
In similar fashion, the Newfoundland Railway adopted the Cape Gauge, and ran some very fine pacific locomotives on it. The lines were finally abandoned in 1988, Newfoundland having joined the rest of Canada in 1949, and joined in with the rest of the country's standard gauge. 
The Prince Edward Island Railway went the same way after joining the Confederation in 1873. 
So, Ralph, I can't find any Cape Gauge trains running in Canada, or Chile. 
Am I part-forgiven? 
tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## dhamer52 (Jan 2, 2008)

The GVR (Gnome Valley Railroad) has engines/rolling stock that are 1:19, 1:20.3, 1:22, 1:24, 1:29, 1:32. The buildings they have are a mixtue of this and that. They have some of those plastic bird house that look like buildings, piko buildings,they even found a mail box tht looks like a general store. The Board of Directors of the GVR built this railroad with the understanding that if it looks nice then they will buy it and have it moved to there land. So far the CGO (that's Chief Gnome Office) has done a great job. In exchange for the use of my land the CGO has allowed me to run my trains, as long as I don't run diesels which is no problem since I don't have any.


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

There should be more 1:20 scale items. The garden railroad hobby enjoys an international membership, thanks to the internet. What we have here is a business opportunity that is not being taken advantage of. When LGB started with garden trains and were charging a hefty price for their product, it didn't take long for others to jump on the bandwagon and manufacture their own product line. 
The thinking was "If they can get $150 for a boxcar, why can't I?" You would think that this same thinking would go further and cater to the accessories that enhance a layout. It is not like the hobby is still brand new. 
There are numerous G scale forums and magazines that service and provide information to the hobbyist. It is not like you are making a new product and are forced to find a creative way to reach your buyer. 
There was a thread in th Garden Railways Magazine forum that asked about making a G Scale themed sweat or T shirt that proclaimed that you were a garden railroader. It would also promote the hobby. They didn't think it was a very good idea and probably would not make enough money. Duh??? 
Sometimes it makes you want to take matters into your own hands and take the gamble. I have rambled on long enough. Regards, Dennis.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Mik, 
Don't get me started. 
I sell 1:20.3 scale figures. I have to agree that the money is not really there. I've heard a few grumbles about the prices, but not from any of my customers and the critism and suggestions I get is always constructive and always appreciated. In fact, I don't really care if people think my figures are too expensive. I charge what I need to charge for them. 
I don't make a great deal of money off the figures, as a matter of fact, barely enough to pay for materials and sponsor the figures and accessories forum, but thats not why I started making them in the first place. 
I just needed figures for my Oahu Railway project and there aren't any Hawaiian figures out there, as a matter of fact there are very few really good figures out there in 1:20.3 scale. 
Another thing I wanted to do was address a problem I've seen not only in Gscale but in all scales, and that is the focus on the machines and the buildings and the neglect of the people who actually played a role in building, maintaining and running the prototypes. 
When I was into H.O. I would hear arguments constantly about the position of rivet or a grab iron, while everyone ignored the fact that the engineer was just a featureless blob of plastic wearing the wrong clothing for the period being model. 
Real people ran those engines and I think that if we are going to be concerned about the size of a wheel or its flange, or the distance between the rails in the particular scale we are modeling, we should also be concerned about what figures we are placing on the prototypes. If at all possible they should be the people who actually ran the prototype or who set in those towers or ticket boths. I've made it my mission in life to try to do just that. Not just for the money (Although that would be extremely welcomed) but to honor those people and the work they did that gives all of us so much joy. 
If I ever have the skills to start making automobiles and someone expresses an interest in a different year than the one I model, then I think I would consider that a good suggestion and if possible I would try to meet that suggestion. Granted its not always possible, but I wouldn't discourage people from asking


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By DennisB on 04/27/2008 6:41 AM 
There should be more 1:20 scale items. The garden railroad hobby enjoys an international membership, thanks to the internet. What we have here is a business opportunity that is not being taken advantage of. ...There was a thread in th Garden Railways Magazine forum that asked about making a G Scale themed sweat or T shirt that proclaimed that you were a garden railroader. It would also promote the hobby. They didn't think it was a very good idea and probably would not make enough money. ... 





First, Garden railroading international?, Yes, 1:20.3?...... um, nope, not really just an odd bird here and there. It's mostly (re-read the word mostly) a North American thing. A 1:20.3 ANYTHING will have less international appeal than a T-shirt or sweat shirt (which still aren't uber popular with people older than teenagers in many other cultures). 

One constant I've read so far is a lot of "They should make", and "There should be" and very little of "I'm going to make", or I'm going to have produced"..... WE (and I'll include myself here, just for the sake of argument, cause I ain't gonna do it, either) are very good at gambling with somebody else's money. -- Think there is money to be made filling this great need? Then take the risk yourself. -- Rubber molds for casting resin aren't very expensive. If that is too hard, then there are about 1,000 places to be found just on the net of fellows in China willing to contract to custom build just about anything... if you've got the cash to pay them. (If it's such an obvious sure thing, then take your business plan to a bank, or get an equity loan to cover it.) I'm also certain GR and the NGSLG will adore the idea of taking your money to run your ad, and may even offer to feature it for review! 

Can't do it all by yourself? Then sell subscriptions, pre-orders or stock... After all there is this great untapped, unfairly ignored market slavering for your product. 

Yeah, I thought not. NEXT!


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Errrmmm.... 

Far be it from me to correct you Terry -but Cape Gauges come from NORWAY as does the most common type of coupling used on it.... It was the invention of Cap Phil. And in your list of countries you forgot to include Canada, (*shame* on you!), Chile, and New Zealand!!! 

There is also a healthy group of people modelling Cape Gauge locomotives on Gauge 1 track at 1:24 scale. As far as I know I am the only person modelling 16mm scale Cape Gauge locomotives on Gauge 3 track(?) 

regards 

ralph


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard, sir. I thank you for trying. 

I have a friend and supplier who makes model steam traction engines for me. They are about 1/25 scale because that is the size the first one was made in back in 1958, and he feels newer products need to maintain the "family" look (there are a few of them on my layout. They work well enough in 1/22.5, 1/24 and 1/29 to represent a larger or smaller machine) These items sell mostly to people who have an interest in antique farm machinery and toy collectors rather than model railroaders because they (purposely) resemble vintage cast-iron toys more than scale models. 

Nevertheless, the point I have to make is that people have been clamoring for years for their favorite marquee/brand to be added to the line-up. (there are currently 9 different ones) Last year he added the first new model since he bought the company, a Minneapolis, available in a couple different variations. He had a bit of initial 
interest (for about 4-5 months) then sales tapered off to a trickle. Bad timing? maybe. Bad choice of prototype? Well he had collected and filed all the new model requests for several years while trying to decide which one to produce, and the Minneapolis had the most requests (followed by Keck-Gonnerman, Peerless, and Advance...Names which probably don't mean much to most people here). Will the more or less commercial failure of the "Minnie" affect the production or postpone the release date of the other planned models? Take a guess. 


I also tried. For about 5 years I custom built a limited edition model using his castings. Original plans called for making only 50 pieces, for a 25% premium over what the regular off the shelf models cost...if you counted my time it was a bigtime money LOSER, but people had asked for it. I sold 16 before I threw in the towel. Still want one? I have parts leftover, but the enthusiasm is gone. 

Original items first produced in 1958 









New 'Minneapolis' model 









The limited edition model I tried to market 









One of the pieces on my layout 









And another


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Mik, 
I like the stack cap on it. What size is it? Would you consider trading a figure for the stack cap? I been hoping someone would offer those type stack caps in various sizes for a long time


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 04/27/2008 12:15 PM
Mik, 
I like the stack cap on it. What size is it? Would you consider trading a figure for the stack cap? I been hoping someone would offer those type stack caps in various sizes for a long time " border=0> 




The top of the stack is cast as an integral part of the roof on the Minnie and the body castings on the Russell. I can get the castings if need be, but it's probably cheaper and easier to just stick a bit of brass (or even aluminum) in the lathe. (My lathe is still in the trunk of Kim's car, but it's better than my ex's basement)


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## DrVibes (Jan 3, 2008)

WOW Del, Look what you have started! 
If 1:20.3 gets much more commercialized, I'm going to switch to 7/8n2!!!!!! 
Actually, that is not likely to happen, but 1:20.3 is the scale that forces me to be more inovative and because of that I have learned so much more and enjoyed many hours of spare time in my workshop constructing items that are not readily available. I still have to try my hand at making people, but I have downloaded the master class. It's just a matter of time.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Ralph - here is the list of current and former Cape/Cap Gauge from Janes Railways of the World - figures are kilometers of trackage - X means that the track is no longer in use - 

Angola 2781/2879, Australia 16307, X Barbados 1900-1937, X Belgium (Antwerp), Botswana 712, Canada 1120 (Newfoundland, Toronto & Nipissing, Prince Edward Island, Lethbridge Mining etc.), Chile (Tocopilla, X Taltal), China (Taiwan) 4600, Congo 797, Congo/DR 3968, Costa Rica 950 (San Jose), Dominican Rep., Ecuador 965 (Quito), Estonia 39 (Tallinn tramway), Ghana 953, Guyana 29, Haiti 180, Honduras 508, Hong Kong (tram) 16, Indonesia 6389, Isle of Man (Snaefell Mtn Rly) 8, Japan 25315, Liberia 152, X Malaysia (Penang streetcar 21), Malawi 789, Mozambique 3140, Namibia 2341, X Netherlands (RTM Interurban, Arnhem), New Zealand 4716, Nicaragua 373, Nigeria 3505, Norway (Sulitjelmabanen, etc.,X everywhere else before re-gauging), X Panama (Panama City), X Peru (Arequipa), Philippines 378, Poland (Czeremcha sleeper factory), Russia (Sakhalin, X Livny), Sierra Leone (Marampa) 84, South Africa 20324, South Korea (Pusan streetcars 9.5), Sri Lanka (Colombo), Sudan 4800, Swaziland 297, Sweden (the Blekinge system, Sundsvall-Torpshammar, Matfors-Vattjom 608, Tanzania 960, UK (East Cornwall; Caldon Low Quarries; Severn & Wye; Wolverton & Stony Stratford Tramway; Southend Pier 2; Snaefell Mountain; Rothesay & Ettrick Bay; Jersey; trams), X USA (logging lines; trolleys in Portland, Tacoma, Denver, and Los Angeles, Oakland and San Francisco cable cars), X Venezuela 506 (Bolivar, Tachira, Central, Gran, El Palito), Zambia 1266, and Zimbabwe 2745. 

That should do it 

Graders 
tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Mik, 
I was talking about the image under the caption " The limited edition model I tried to market" the one with the red cap. I thought that was the limited edition you modeled, but it doesn't look like the cap is part of the roof.


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## MarkLewis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 04/26/2008 3:57 PM
Every issue of GR that comes out it seems like there are X new product offerings in 1:24 scale. Why? (And don't tell me because it is so easy to work with. Calculators have been around for better than 38 years now.) There are very few 1:24 locos left. Most are 1:22.5 or 1.20.3. So why would I want a 1:24 scale building sitting next to a 1:20.3 locomotive? I guess they may be good for perspective when placed back away from the track. I do see that some bridge builders now offer plans in other scales, but the guys making the buildings just don't seem to want to give it up!




Oh yeah of narrow vision. The majority of traction modelers work in 1:24 scale. Clearly their needs outweigh those of the narrow guage persuasion. 

Mark


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The cap is part of the body castings (2 parts left and right to make up the boiler, dome, stack and firebox)...just painted another color. Sometimes the silly things warp when they cool so getting the seams as small as possible is ...interesting. 

If it was an add on I'd just give you one.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Too bad /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif Guess I'll have to turn my own.


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## BigDigger (Jan 3, 2008)

Del, 

A good example of "why" is the featured railroad in this months Garden Railway magazine! 

David


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