# Water-jet cut coaches



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I will be making French coaches for my French/Algerian Garratt I just finished. I tested it out in Sacramento and it will easily handle as many cars as I would want to pull so I decided on ten second class and one diner

There is a site called Big Blue Saw where you can attach a DXF file and get an instantaneous quote on a piece water jet cut. Using this feature, I tried several scenarios till I got the right cut and the lowest cost. I then got a quote from a local shop that actually came in lower so I went with that.
20 sides for 10 coaches came to $275 including material. I then got the floor and roof material sheared at my metal supplier for $60 for a total of $335 or $33.50 per coach. The sides and floor are 20 ga. and the roof is 24ga steel

There was a little rusting and blow through that was cleaned up by sanding and here is one side.
The long tab at the bottom with the holes in it is to mount it to the floor bending it was done on my friend's brake. If I didn't have use of it, I could have just had five 1" tabs and bent them by hand, The vertical slots at the ends are so the bending will be true.










As you can see the cutting process makes every piece the same.









The sides bend in at a 45 degree angle so I cut these two blocks to get the bend right.









The first bend is made with the 2x4 as a guide









The smaller block fits in the gap between the bend lines









The bend slots are then filled with Bondo









And sanded









strips are cut for the door frame and attached with JB Weld









And primed









The floor and bows for the roof attachment are added to the pilot. I'll show photos of the bow attachments next posting. 
One down 9 to go.


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## jokensa (Dec 4, 2014)

wow!

can't wait to see the progression

thanks


JKS


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## pickleford75 (May 3, 2012)

Thats awesome..... cant wait to see the construction and finished product


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Cool! I have had parts waterjet cut. Apparently the only way to do brass except for etching. The supplier I found was happy to do small batches but you had to keep after him and he was hard to contact.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Bid blue will do only one small piece but the price is real high. I think the price breaks were at 4, 10 and 50 pieces. I originally wanted to do a one first class and a baggage car but the price for two sides was almost the same for ten.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Here is how I did the roof support bows

First I mark all of the sides for two bows each and then center drill and drill out and tap a 2-56 hole









Then screw in a 1/4" bolt to protrude to the inside enough for the bow and a nut









A snippet of 1/32" stay brite solder is wrapped around the screw


















The outside of the bolt is then cut off with a jewelers saw and it is sanded flush









The lower frame is machined out of popular on the router









here you can see the truck construction. It is made from three pieces of .050 brass. the top is soldered to one side and bolted to a 1/8 x 3/16 strip soldered to the other side

















Dennis had a European coach which had the exact trucks my prototype had and he lent me it to make some molds. The problem was that it had a lot of protrusions on the back side so I cut a piece of styrene to cover the majority of them and then used some silly putty to get a flat surface to make the mold.









And here is the result. The original on top and the casting on the bottom.









Here is the mold with the original









When the casting comes out of the mold, it is thicker than I need and the back is uneven









I tried to sand the backs off but ther was just too much to remove on 44 castings so I made this little jig to cut the backs off. I needed the backs to be parallel with the axle boxes and the two vertical bars protruded out past them so I chiseled out these recesses which allow the axle boxes to touch the wood and also allow me to push the casting through the saw









The wood on the left is the jig and the one on the right is just holding the casting against it









The casting is then glued to the truck with E6000 which is a specially formulated adhesive for gluing dissimilar materials









And the finished trucks









Test end caps are made from MDF which is easy to shape and the body is assembled and primed.









A popular block is attached to the floor with E6000 and a piece of Poly carbonate is used as a pivot plate









The coaches of the time period were a monochromatic green. They will be more glossy but similar to this









But I am thinking I may want to go with a somewhat later paint scheme with a grey or black roof and maybe a black lower frame. There will be some black storage boxes below the frame between the trucks.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ???


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,

Looks great! What are your mold and casting materials?

Steve Shyvers


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Steve
All from TAP Plastics

The mold material is their Platinum series which is more flexible than the standard silicone material but the standard would have probably worked ok
The resin is called Quick Cast Polyurethane resin which is their standard resin which I have used before.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

More progress on the coaches

now that the outside of the prototype is finished and I know what not to do to the other nine, i am ready to start the mass production phase of the project but first I have a little work to do on the diner.

I had a shell left over from another consist that I decided to make into a diner. I wanted to cover one man-door and a window with a cargo door so I cut these two out in the mill









I started to make the end caps out of popular but I had some tear out on the router when it was making the transition from cross to vertical cuts so I decided to use MDF which is more stable and easier to machine. The only thing about this product is it needs extra care in filling the cut and machined surfaces and it needs to be fully painted to withstand any contact with water.
Here is a block of MDF with a Popular strip glued on. I added a wood screw only as a precaution.









The popular strip will be monted to the floor with screws but I need a long drill to get a true pilot hole drilled so in the lathe, I drilled a 1/8" rod with the 9/64 drill i would use and then soldered the bit in. I did the same thing with an allen wrench but ended up using something else.









I place the end cap in position and with the long drill bit, I make the pilot hole









And screw it in place









The roofs will be attached with threaded vents through two holes. I position the roof over the bottom shell and with a sharpie, make a mark where the hole needs to be drilled and tapped.

















I then secure the roof in place and with a sharp pencil, mark the roof outline on the end cap 









On the band saw, I cut to the line but try to leave some of it. I then remove all of the line on the sander









This is a 1" roundover bit which is lowered in order to get gentle slope to the roof end.









The ball bearing on the router bit will follow the cap shape but using the router table to start the cut adds a level of safety









I found a green that I like and a nice grey for the roofs. After the paint is fully dry, I will tape off the roof line and bring it all the way to the ends. 
Here is the prototype with and without pin striping.
Not sure which way to go yet.

















I am also fooling around with Diaphragms. Haven't seen anything I like that much. If anyone knows of a source for them, I would like to know.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*Diaphrams*



bille1906 said:


> More progress on the coaches
> 
> now that the outside of the prototype is finished and I know what not to do to the other nine, i am ready to start the mass production phase of the project but first I have a little work to do on the diner.
> 
> ...



Check with David Leech. He may still be making them.


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## on30gn15 (May 23, 2009)

This is quite a project. Nice looking cars.
A Garratt? Wouldn't be the least bit astonished if that thing could drag a minivan down the line.


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## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

Bill,David Leach makes the Best Diaphragms.I have them on My Penn.Heavyweights,and will put them on the new Accucraft cars when and if I get them. Here take a look,Under Parts http://www.user.dccnet.com/d.leech/


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Bob
Those are beautiful
I need 22 of them so $220 is a little rich for my blood 
I think i will try to make my own but use David if I can't get something suitable made


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
You are amazing ! You make it look so easy. Now how about a project on Pullman and other heavyweights with clerestory roofs? The 1:32 groups really need these. A very scarce commodity. 
Noel


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Very nice! 

I'd go for the extra visual impact of the roof in a contrasting color.

I've been pleased doing woodwork with Aspen. It's very easy to machine, and cuts crisply without tearing using table and mitre saw, or a router.


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Dear Bill
First of all: Fanststic work, and thanks for sharing!!
Nice to see how you solve some of the very trixy things in a straightforward way.

Anyway: look at bellows for camera, then you can make a square type of paper impregnated with oil, or soft plastic.

There are lots of info on this, try fx:


link: http://my.net-link.net/~jsmigiel/bellows.html

Best Regards
David Clement
(DENMARK)


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought Garden Railways had an article a while back on how to make Diaphragms, but a quick search through the last several years did not find it.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

In looking at David's diaphragms, I see that his construction is similar to the last ones I made for my other Garratt coaches but on those, I had more distance between cars. As I will be using KD couplers this time, the shorter distance between cars presents a problem going through switches. I see where David has a plate on the end that extends outward from the diaphragm which would fix the problem for most switches. It looks a little un-prototypical but not that noticeable. The same would need to be done for the camera type bellows or any other diaphragm.
An other alternative which I may try is to make the end frame solid which would give it a better look in running position and probably work through any switch. The front & rear cars could have the horseshoe shaped frame and a door inside.
I found something online about folding paper to form diaphragms which may have been the same as the GR article but I didn't like the look of the one I did.
I'll post some photos in a bit


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Here are the diaphragms that I threw together for a test. The material is light fabric with a rubberized coating sprayed on after assembly. It is a bit dusty as I sanded the ends down before the coating was completely dry









Looking good on a 7' radius turn









But on the #5 turnout switch, the swing would be way too much if I had an open end with frame legs which would overlap. here the flat frame just slides back and forth. Most tracks don't have such a sharp turn out and this is even at the limit of the #820 KD couplers.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

bille1906 said:


> I see where David has a plate on the end that extends outward from the diaphragm which would fix the problem for most switches. It looks a little un-prototypical but not that noticeable.


Bill,
I'm not sure I like your suggestion that my diaphragms are not prototypical.
As far as I know. all regular diaphragms had face plates (rubbing plates) so that there was something solid where the two separate diaphragms meet in the middle.
Not too sure what type of cars you are building, so maybe Algerian ones were different.
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

David
you are worlds ahead of me as a coach builder and I meant no disrespect
I did look at many photos of Diaphragms and although they all have plates I didn't see any that protruded as far as yours do. Please don't think I don't like yours as I think they are great.
Am I right in thinking that the protruding plates keep the frame legs from overlapping and catching on each other through switches?
I would do that to mine but they would still catch because of my small switches.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I have been assembling the 10 sleepers and finishing up on the paint this week.
I think I have a pretty good handle on the diaphragms

There will be three plates with the bellows glued to two and the third which will be similar to David's which will protrude slightly on the outside and prevent catching on the turnouts. I also moved the bogies out a little.
The inside plate will have a door which I will cast. I start with a brass door on a piece of MDF. and place it in a styrene box









Then pour the mold material









A urethane casting is then made. Mold is on the left









It is then painted the same color as the coach









Black antiquing glaze is applied and then wiped off to accentuate the door features









Dennis is cutting the outside plates on his laser cutter and I will assemble them next week


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I need 160 benches so I will need to do something of a mass production
I start with some poplar sticks that I rip to the outside dimensions of the benches. I then set the fence at 1/8" and adjust the saw blade height to be able to cut out these angle lengths. I then round off the seats and backs on the belt sander









The bottom and backs don't need to be painted so I just paint the inside of each piece









Using my cross cut slide, I cut them to length









I take some 3/4" thick poplar and rip it to the bulkhead size on the table saw. Then on the band saw with a new blade, I rip the pieces to .070" thick. Sanding with an 80 grit paper on the belt sander between cuts. and then trim to length on the table saw.









The benches are then glued to the bulkhead with wood glue










The corridor panels are from the same material I ripped on the band saw. A dato blade and the cross cut slide is used for the slots. The windows and doors are laid out for Dennis to cut with the laser









As you can see, the slots make for perfect positioning and easy assembly









Everything is put in place for one last check before sending the pieces to Dennis.









I picked up the pieces this morning and am finishing them here. two coats of Lacquer sanding sealer and two coats of gloss laquer give it a nice natural look. The panels may have been a darker wood but I tried some with a walnut stain and it was so dark with the roof on that you could not see any detail.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Very nice! You just can't beat the look of real wood.

I think it will darken a bit with sun exposure.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

With all those seats you need lots of people! Looks great. No compartment doors?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jason
I just ordered 100 people which will be a start. I am thinking I will need 50 or 100 more after that.
Still contemplating lighting. maybe just a few compartments in each car
The compartments will have door outlines in ink. (nitpicker)


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

The compartments are finished and glued into the cars
Here is a bird's eye view of the interior









And the view through the window from the corridor side









I decided on ribbon from Michael's. I went with the ribbon verses cloth because of the consistent width of the ribbon. I used Quick hold and glued each side and the top & bottom separately to get it even









I cut out this height gauge to get the same height above the track for each car









This is the sharpest curve on my track. It is 7' radius. I used 820 KD couplers vs the shorter 821 because of my tight curves. The cars look pretty good. I still need to do some under carriage work but the hard stuff is finished









The diaphragms seem to work just right


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

A beautiful set of cars.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Winn
I took them to a Steamup today and ran all 11 behind the Garratt and they did look awesome
I still need to add some decals and under-carriage luggage compartments and people and then possibly lights.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

With over a month of away vacationing time, I didn't have much building time but I was able to take 245 little people with me and Virginia and I spent our dead time painting them.
There are not a lot of choices for seated 1/32 scale people. the best deal I have found id on eBay but there are only seven different people available at the price I wanted to spend and if I ordered them pre-painted, I would end up with 7 groups of 35 identical people.
here are the seven characters










And here is my variation on one of them. I tried to have no more than three with the same clothes and hair colors. as they will be spread over 11 cars I should be fine. I will have about 35 in the diner and 21 per compartment car


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Those cars really came out nice.

One thing to consider with the figures is that you can modify them to make them less alike. I added hats to some bare-headed figures (men and women both--in the 20s and 30s, a lot of ladies work hats), cut a couple off at the neck and switched heads (so for instance I wound up with one hatted fellow in the same pose as six without hats), cut arms to change positions, etc. If you putty up the cuts before repainting, it's not noticeable at all, especially inside a car.

The one thing I splurged on was a couple of Preiser figures--a waiter and server for my dining car.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

That is the look I am hoping to get.
I never thought about switching body parts. Mine are all painted but I guess i could still do the same thing
The lighting really makes them pop
I am fooling around with lighting levels now. trying to get everyone lit up without it being too bright.

I looked up Pressier online for 1/32 waiter and found none. They did have a Kurt the waiter in Gauge 1 but it didn't note the scale
Are yours 1/32?


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

These guys were 1:22.5. It's Preiser set 45144--I'm not sure if there's a comparable set in 1:32. I didn't see one in a brief search.

The guy with his arm on the table, holding his glass, is one where I cut and repositioned the arm. My molding and painting skills aren't terrific (which is more obvious in these close-up shots) but from a few feet away it all looks fine. And I agree that the lighting really helps make things look better. I think mine might still be a bit too bright...

Another thing I wanted to mention was that some of my accessories (silverware, food, plates, ect.) came from miniature/dollhouse suppliers.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes
Unfortunately, there is very little available in 1/32. I checked the dollhouse supply and they only have 1/2" (1/24) and 1/4' (1/48 - O gauge)
Luckily, the Garratt I am pulling them with goes really fast so onlookers won't be able to scrutinize them closely.
I have settled on a warm white LED strip (12v) which I will be running on a 9v battery. Even still it is too bright so I have it pointed up and reflecting off the roof. I think it is about right
I'll post some photos shortly.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Unless you have them displayed on a shelf, no one will really notice when they are outside going by. Looks nice to have them and you did a good job.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Jerry
Here is the setup I used for the lighting
I got a 16' roll of 12v LEDs from Amazon for $5 including freight which cut into 10 19" lengths
I cut some popular strips to attach them to with the self adhesive backing 









I found that a 12v power source was just too bright so I tried 9v and it works fine. I tried several instalations. Pointing down, pointing up with aluminum foil on the inside of the roof and finaly with the roof painted hi gloss light grey. I then moved the strip around and found that right above the corridor wall was the best so I glued the strip there.









Here is the strip lit up









And you can see the warm glow you get with the reflected light









In a well lit shop, the people show up fine. there is a bit of glare on the window.








And fully lit in the dark









I will have a 9v battery box under the carrage of each car. I couldn't believe how cheap they are on eBay. $3 for five


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Those lights look great, Bill.

Nice and even after bouncing them off the roof.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, you may want to do a "run time" test on the LED strips connected to the battery. I can't tell from the pic above, but some of the newer strips have multi-segment diodes that draw more power (3258 strip vs 5050 strip).


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Dave
We checked the draw and it is 35 ma hours and a 9v battery is 200 so I should get about 5 - 6 hours of life per battery. I ordered some Duracell Procell which are suposed to be better but I don't know what the ma/hr rating is.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow bill they are great. Looks complete with the full interior.

As to batteries, if you can fit a pack, I can have my vendor build you a pack of NiMh rechargables. Would be AAA at 800ma or AA up to 2400ma. But then you have to charge them all. Or one large battery in the head car and small connections to the rest. Could do Sub C up to 4800 I think. 

Minitronics 2 prong plugs are micro connectors.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Jay
I already have everything ordered and set up for 9v 
I was thinking about one battery car but I really like the ease of hooking up and disconnecting with the KD couplers and my fingers are too old and fat to be doing the wires on 11 cars.
A friend said your connectors are great and easy but it's not for me on this train.
I have so many trains now that I don't get much run time on any of them, Five hours of lighting should be good for a couple of years the way I use them. That is assuming I don't forget to turn them off.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

My standing people and transparent red paint for the lamp shades came in this week.

I added one to two people walking in the corridors of each coach

















Next the diner
I cut some mahogany table tops and glued them to 3/8" dowels and then set them in the lathe to drill a hole for the lamps

















The lamps were turned from clear acrylic rod. The bases were painted with gloss brown paint









The lamps were pressed in to the tables using a block as a guide to get then all the same height. The lamp shades were painted with translucent red paint. a 3 mm warm white LED bulb is pressed into the lamp hole in the table from the bottom.









It is hard to get a well focused photo but here is the finished interior


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice touch. You having a bit of fun finishing these up. Takes your mind off the Triplex?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Jason
Yes the people and lighting was fun. Soldering all of the lamp wires and resistors was a little tedious but still much lighter work than building chassis for the trip which I got back to today


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Very cool Bill! They look great...I guess with the lights installed you will have to run in the dark some times


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes Eric
A friend has a Holiday steamup that goes into the night. I may try to run it then
I did find that even in broad daylight, you can see the interior better with the lights on.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Great interior! Are you going to include dinner settings on the tables?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

You know...I looked for some but the only thing I could find was Doll House stuff which is either too big or too small for 1/32. I was even thinking of turning out the plates and glasses in Acrylic but maybe another day


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

placitassteam said:


> Great interior! Are you going to include dinner settings on the tables?


Bill did a great job on those coaches, and looking through the windows, it is also clear that he caters to a well-dressed, well-heeled traveler.

To insure customer satisfaction and continued patronage, I do believe there should be linens on those tables as well. 

Cheers,

Joe

*Edit*: Further to the above. Good serviceable table linen may have a thread-count as little as 50 threads per inch. Scaling to 1:32 results in a fine fabric with a thread count of 1,600 filaments per inch. I reckon Bill will have to dispense with "true scale" when it comes to table linens, don't you?

But there are some fine 1,000 thread per inch fabrics available if one looks around a bit.


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

dinner and salad plate can be from paper punch of thick paper stock


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Bill:

It looks very nice. I think your interiors are especially well done.

Something I forgot to mention in my earlier post: in each car I wired up the LEDs to a latching reed switch mounted on the roof under a vent. I have one of those telescoping magnets and I wave it over the roof of the car (in the correct spot) to turn the lights on or off. So there's no visible toggle switch... and if I'm running the cars and I want to turn the lights on because the sun went down, I don't have to fiddle with them. The magnet doesn't even have to touch the roof, it just has to come close to where the switch is mounted.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Mate, that is truly beautiful work. I'd love to see the looks on all those people's faces as it comes round the track and goes by. Job well done.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

riderdan said:


> Bill:
> 
> It looks very nice. I think your interiors are especially well done.
> 
> Something I forgot to mention in my earlier post: in each car I wired up the LEDs to a latching reed switch mounted on the roof under a vent. <snip>


Dan, a latching magnetic reed switch under a resin or wood roof sounds like a great idea. I imagine it is the sort of thing one can order from Digikey or Mouser. Do you have an O.E.M part number for the switch that you used?

Maybe something like this:

Standex switch

Also . . .

In case anyone missed it, my suggestion to cover the tables with 1000 thread cloth to simulate 1:32 scale linen . . . was a joke. 

Those coaches look splendid!

Cheers,

Joe


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I wonder if that switch would work under a steel roof


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

StackTalk said:


> Dan, a latching magnetic reed switch under a resin or wood roof sounds like a great idea. I imagine it is the sort of thing one can order from Digikey or Mouser. Do you have an O.E.M part number for the switch that you used?
> Joe


Hey Joe--I looked back and I bought one set from eBay, so I don't have a part number. Dave Bodnar (who posts here and maintains his trainelectronics site) also sells them (or sold them...) 

As I recall, the little/inexpensive glass ones are somewhat hard to find. You could search for "bistable reed switch" and see what you come up with. I don't think either Digikey or Mouser carries them.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

bille1906 said:


> I wonder if that switch would work under a steel roof


Bill, I have a couple spares somewhere... when I get a minute I'll put one under a piece of sheet metal and see if a magnet will still throw it.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

riderdan said:


> Bill, I have a couple spares somewhere... when I get a minute I'll put one under a piece of sheet metal and see if a magnet will still throw it.


The reed switch may work OK initially under thin steel, but what about after the coach roof becomes somewhat magnetized? There may be an unintended latching effect if/when the roof becomes magnetized?

Bill may have an accessible alternative location though, where there is either wood or brass under which the switch may be installed.

Cheers,

Joe


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

No, the whole thing is steel
I guess I will just stick with the switch under the floor


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

I am also looking for those latching mag reed switches, so far only found them on ebay, not sure if those are the fragile ones Dave Bodner spoke of

Jerry


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I took this video at a steamup last week
The train was actually going too fast to get a good shot of the coach interiors but I like the way the long consist was snaking around the bend in the track.


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## pickleford75 (May 3, 2012)

Great video.... those coaches look great!


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Nice work! That string of coaches look amazing with your Garratt. How do you post large photos on these forums?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

It is not easy
First you need to put the photo on the web somewhere like Picasso 
Then you rt click and copy the URL
Then on MLS klick on the icon that looks like a camera back lit symbol
A box will come up and then past your URL there and hit return.
Make sure you move your cursor to a spot under the URL before typing or hitting return or you will erase it


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