# Pictures of elevated tracks



## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

From a previous thread you may know that I am planning an elevated layout to be built this summer. To me a picture is worth 1,000,000,000 words so I'm wondering if those of you who have elevated layouts would either post some pictures of them or direct me to web sites where I can look at pictures.

Thanks,

Jack


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Go to Noel Wilson's live channel and watch his pictures, and or his video he has built several elevated railroads not only for himself but for others!! He will help you anyway he can!! Regal

Santa fe & Butthead Cove. R.R. - Mogulus Live Broadcast


His email is [email protected] He also has alot of pics of raised layouts on the OTHER train site too!! Look for pics of Joel Harrison, that is the last layout he helped to elevate.


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Thanks, but site is too complicated for me to find anything on. I'm just looking for some good still pictures of the layouts and detail pics of support systems. 

Jack


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to agree with you Jack.


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Look here.. 


http://lonepeakandwestern.bravehost.com/


Click on the "Spring '08 Expansion" tab in the upper right hand corner.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I don't understand why it's too difficult???????? If it is, how do you guys ever do trains??????????? Anyways you can still email him, and he will help you if you choose. I would be interested in knowing what your complaint or complexity to the site is. You can email me and I will try to help you, but it is as simple as anything else you guy's are doing on a computer like this site now, I'm sure it's probably just some first time visit unknown parameters, but I would be interested in knowing what you encountered so if there is a problem we could work it out!! Our site is I believe very entertaining and you could probably take away some kind of knowledge everytime you come to view our show or the site, so I'm always willing to help or educate so our hobby, and our site/show will grow also!! I know one person who visited us last nite and saved several dollars on a piece of equipment he was using and paying high prices on!!! Everyone can take away some small benefit or knowledge from the site I'm sure! Let me know if I can help or Noel will help also!! Regal 


[email protected]


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Regal, 

What I found was a site that is difficult to navigate compared to any site I've ever seen. Now understand that I am a pretty weak minded bugger and though I do have a web site, do CAD/CAM/CNC it is all pretty simple minded. Maybe if you could provide a link to a specific page? 

Jack


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jack - Freshwater Models on 06 Mar 2010 10:56 AM 
Regal, 

What I found was a site that is difficult to navigate compared to any site I've ever seen. Now understand that I am a pretty weak minded bugger and though I do have a web site, do CAD/CAM/CNC it is all pretty simple minded. Maybe if you could provide a link to a specific page? 

Jack 

*Sorry Jack that Livestream lost a bunch of clips I had on there..They change over to a new Beta program. But I found a few photos and when I have time will find more that I posted last yr.*

*[url]http://s187.photobucket.com.../*[/url]

*Hopoe this will help on what I did on another layout..This one is 4foot off the ground and using over 600 foot of track to get a 1% grade down to 1 foot off the ground.. Stanchens can be adj. anywhere on the layout and is very sturdy. later. Noel *


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I just objected to you and rivettes BLANKET statement that it was hard to navigate??????? Others reading that may be detoured around or to NOT visit the site at all with a blanket statement, like that!! All you do is pick a ficticious name and hit enter that gets you into the site and chat!! I don't see any emails telling me your specific problem, so I will just say the above. Here are the links again all you have to do after putting in your ficticious name, and hitting enter is clik on the videos down below, and or watch what is playing on the big screen. Not sure you even have to pick a ficticious name to just see what's on or watch the video on demand. Pretty Easey Peasey, but let me know if we can help you. Last thing we want is it being difficult, or a problem we DON'T know about keeping people from joining us or sharing!! We put all our old shows on there for people who can't make it to the "live" one on Friday nites from 7-9pm MSt. Check us out!! Noel or I either on will help anybody who needs it. Nuff said Regal!!

Just a disclaimer if you are reading the above posts PLEASE do NOT think "Well if its hard or difficult to navigate I won't even TRY!! Anybody who does have trouble of any kind let either Noel or I know and we will surely explain or fix the problem. We get nothing for this site, we only do it because of our love for this hobby, and Noel enjoys showing his amazing animations, and wiring abilitites. Who knows you might even learn something from popping in now and then!! Mine is the first clikable link, and Noel's is the second!! Regal 


Crazy Train Guy's Garden Railroad Channel - Mogulus Live Broadcast 


Santa fe & Butthead Cove. R.R. - Mogulus Live Broadcast


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Regal, when I said I agreed with Jack it was simply that you get a bunch of videos to pick from when you open the website and I didn't see any, that said they were related to elevated track. For someone with the time to watch all the videos, the site is great I'm sure, but I guess I'm too impaitent. Noel's link to picts on Photobucket are quick to look at and exactly what Jack was asking for. 

Randy


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Noel, 

Thanks for the link! Nice RR ! The telescoping PVC is a concept that I will have to investigate. Up here we have frost to contend with and I have a wet backyard in the spring so being able to adjust the posts easily would be helpful. Gotta find out what sizes telescope. 

Jack


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's another option. It's worked quite well up here in the northwest.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

There are basically three kinds of elevated tracks....table top, build and bury, and raised.

a. Table top elevated tracts are basically a wider flat area supported by legs. They are typically post and beam construction with a plywood top when used by the live steamers. Most of the live steam guys use this technique. They like their layouts UP high to avoid having to bend to fuel and fire the engine. If you go to the live steam forum here, you'll see dozen's of elevated railways with liver steamers on them....search for "steamup". They are basically a wood post or posts...with a beam across and longitudinally to the next post....with a top put on. Noel's idea is a post and beam design using plastic...a PVC post with a T on top. This is basically the same post and beam idea...but using plastic. It's a whole lot cheaper and as Noel pointed out, you can fashion an adjustable version to deal with frost heave. If you have issues with the PVC post not being rigid enough, you can fill the post with a slurry of concrete. That firms it up pretty good. Here's a photo of a standard table top layout.

Then there is the steel approach. These are manufactured "tables" that are installed in your yard. Here's an example http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/mi...%20104.jpg . These are made by Eagle Wings I believe.


Then there is the table top approach used by Richard Smith. He's built an outdoor NON-garden railroad using a very elaborate table top design. Search for "Port Orford" or dig through his photos. Here's a link to one thread that shows off his layout. http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...spx#108704


b. The build and bury approaches are more often called PVC roadbed or ladder track. PVC roadbed is formed using Noel's technique for posts...except the T is use to join horizontal pieces of PVC pipe so that all the posts are tied together. After you've laid the basic single PVC pipe foundation in the shape of your track design, you then add two more pieces of PVC pipe on top, one to the left above...one to the right above...forming a triangle of pipe...and these are wire tied together. Later, when you've leveled the top two pipes...you have a flat surface to put the track on. Folks tend to put screws through the top two pieces of PVC to make it rigid. 

The more modern appraoch for the build and bury method is called ladder track. The A to Z on how you make that are here with lots of photos. http://www.donet.com/~paulrace/trai...adder1.htm This is the technique I'm using...and there are lots of photos at the following URL...toward the end on how I made the ladder. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?a...d02729837a


The build and bury approach can also be the build and NOT bury approach as you can leave the posts and ladder up without back filling with soil. 


c. Raised...raised layouts use some kind of block or rock to raise the layout UP...and the track is laid on the dirt. This may not be the kind of "elevated" you meant...but it sure keeps the amount of bending over down. Here's that idea


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Posted By Richard Smith on 06 Mar 2010 02:38 PM 
Here's another option. It's worked quite well up here in the northwest. 



*That is absolutely exquisite!* Sadly it is more permanant than I want. We hope to move in about 8-10 years! Good for the second railway I might someday build!

Jack


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Mike, 

Thanks for the useful links! I will have to see if I can find the composite lumber in our area. I haven't seen it before. The idea of filling the PVC posts with concrete sounds good! 

Regards, 

Jack


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Jack, 
Go to the live steam forum and search for Dan Pantages. On p3 you'll see a thread "A New Canadian Track Takes Shape" which will show another way to build the frame of your elevated track using metal studding. The Pennsylvania Live Steamers track was built similarly to this I am told. Instead of post holes the easiest way to go is with deck blocks laid right on the ground with 4x4 or pvc pipe posts. The post tops are cut level and toilet flanges are used with the pvc or wood cross members with the 4x4s. Ron Brown's track is supported this way as is Don Sauer's elevated portion. Chuck Walters built a large track using this method which has been dismantled but his write up in Steam In The Garden was copied by many including Bob Weltyk in MI. I understand this method was pioneered by David Morgan Kirby in Ottawa where the weather has a wider temperature swing than we enjoy here. 
If you are planning a move in 8-10 years then top the frames with plywood, treat the edges and cover the ply with roll roofing. This method has been used in Britain for years, should be about the cheapest and normal power tools will work. 
Best, 
Tom


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Tom, 

Thanks for the lead to Dan's new Canadian track" !!! Interesting to use steel studs. I would be worried about rust but at least they won't warp. Now I have to look at steel studs. 

Do David Morgan-Kirby's or Ron Brown's tracks have any method of adjusting for settling or frost??? 

Jack


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Jack, 
I have not seen David's track and I don't think Ron's does. Chuck Walters had a provision for adjustment but it never proved to be necessary. His biggest problem was cupping of the wooden pieces he used for the decking which is why others have gone for the composite lumber. I might be able to locate the Steam In The Garden issues which have the building articles. 
I was skeptical but folks who build with that method claim it is no problem. Placing the deck blocks on undisturbed soil results in very little movement and what changes take place over winter settle down by the time spring steaming begins. I have heard of others digging a shallow hole which was filled with gravel, topped with a paver then the deck block and posts but that is more work. I usually don't pay much attention to building schemes in climates less severe than ours. 
I think the pics of Chuck's and Don's are still available at trainweb.org/gggrs Click on pictures then Scot's Train Pages, scroll down to Upstate Steamers and down that page you'll find Steamup Photos. Sorry I'm not computer savy enough to place a link here for you. 
I'd have to look back at that thread but I think Dan Pantages addresses the rust problem where cuts are made. Otherwise the studs are galvanized. 
This thread is making me itch to get out and work on the decking for my track is I could just decide what it will be. Unfortunately the snow (almost a foot deep still) is slowing me down. 
Have fun, 
Tom


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jack - Freshwater Models on 06 Mar 2010 09:14 AM 
From a previous thread you may know that I am planning an elevated layout to be built this summer. To me a picture is worth 1,000,000,000 words so I'm wondering if those of you who have elevated layouts would either post some pictures of them or direct me to web sites where I can look at pictures.

Thanks,

Jack

I found some photo of what we did at a Buddy's of mine that he wanted nothing less than 1 % grade on his raised layout coming off of his existing layout on his patio at 4 foot. So I came up with the idea of adj. two pc of PVC Scheduale 40 white pipe at a start out of 1 1/2 inch with 1 1/4 inch to start with do to the hight. The other thing do to his Sandi sh soil i had to drive the 1 1/2 in to as deep as 5 foot to get anything solid and not to move or come out of the ground. So we drove them in as far as we could and then cut to 8 inches below the total hight we need for the 1 1/4 for the adj.pipe. We just used a Drywall screw to lock the hight. It made it easy to do more adj. as needed later. Then we use a PVC Tee on top of the pipes and screw them in to the teated and oiled Redwood 2 X 6s. On the 10 R or more we cut the 2 X 6s in 2 1/2 links to make the curves with gussets to tie them together. Petty simple to do. 
I'm not sure if ice would push them up out of the ground if done in the summer time and do it when the ground is wet to Dir them down as far as they will go. That why we made the adjustments of 8 inch's or more. Can be added adj.anytime. I did about the same thing on my layout up to my set up area of 3 foot off the ground with a 100 foot run to the layout.

One thing is that the layout can be unscrewewd and moved. The gussets,the adj part of the PVC stations and track. And then get more PVC for the next place being it cheap. and just cut off the old PVC back to ground level.. 

Here are some photo off of the my MLS web site to make it easer to see.











http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/no...ng%202.JPG 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/noelw/Joels/Joel1.jpg

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/noelw/Joels/Joel3.jpg

Hope this helps.. This is a lot of other ideas out there depending on what your soil and conditions are. If you have rocky sold and bad winters, you may want to do like some other have showen on here that they have done.. Noel


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Noel, 

That's a mighty slick setup for sure. Very nice!


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Noel, 

Nice looking track!!! "oiled and treated redwood" Yikes!!!!! Here in western NY state redwood is wicked expensive. I built a red wood picnic table and it cost about $300 15 years ago. 

Jack


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

WoW.. that much to build a Table?? Must of been out of Redword hearts...(Most expencive redwood) WoW..... Guess then go with Pine or Hemlock and let it warp for the conture curver for hi speed running.. .. laf.. just kidding. but I did on my layout use a lot of pine and fur 2 X 6s being they were short pcs. I just painted my with Gray Latex paint and knew I would have to replace section every few yrs. But its was a cheap way to go out here. Also I like to make changes often so nothing is fixed for any long time standing. I'm now, in a month or so rebuilding Butthead Cove and redoing the piers and landing. But thats just more cement and a little Redwood.


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Yup, a 7' table and two benches in redwood cost about $300. I used the best redwood for the top and a lower grade for the legs and benches. It came out nice but the cost was a bit much. The lower grade redwood we see around here is full of knots! I'm still thinking about all this and will probably go for as much pvc/plastic/metal as I can. The deck may be exterior grade OSB with roll roofing over it. 

Jack


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack, 
im planning to begin some "ladder roadbed" here in Rochester this spring.. 
Im going to use the plastic lattice for stringers, and PVC tubing for posts, as described in this thread: 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx 

I found the "lattice" at the Brockport Lowes..I have since also seen it at the Greece Lowes.. 
havent looked at Home Depot yet this year, but I plan to.. 

my only concern is frost heave..im still debating if I want to put PVC tubing straight into the ground, or use 4x4 lumber for posts, and sit them on the ground with "deck blocks"..which would mean no posts buried in the ground at all.. 

the "deck block" method has been used with much success around here.. 
the theory is that the entire structure simply rises and falls as a unit, then settles back down in the spring. 

here are some photos of Chuck's old setup in Owsego, which illustrates that method: 

http://www.trainweb.org/gggrs/steam...teamup.htm

I was planning to install a few "tests posts" (PVC, in the ground) last Fall to see how they hold up over the winter, with frost heave.. 
unfortunately I never got around to doing it.. 
now I wish I had! 


Scot


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Scot, 

Thanks for the links! The lattice looks way too flimsy to me. I don't want a guest to have a train or loco knocked off the track by someone bumping the track. Chuck's track looks more in tune with what I want to build. 

I purchased track yesterday but don't know when I'll actually start construction. 

Regards, 

Jack


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jack - Freshwater Models on 16 Mar 2010 11:24 AM 
Scot, 

Thanks for the links! The lattice looks way too flimsy to me. I don't want a guest to have a train or loco knocked off the track by someone bumping the track. Chuck's track looks more in tune with what I want to build. 

I purchased track yesterday but don't know when I'll actually start construction. 

Regards, 

Jack 



Jack,
I suppose it could be too flimsy if you are planning a railroad with the tracks raised high, with only the ladder roadbed supporting it..
im planning to bury most of mine, so all it really needs to support is the weight of the trains..

I agree if you are going for a true raised railroad, raised 3 or 4 or 5 feet, then yeah, go for the heavy-duty lumber! 
different materials for different situations..

Chuck did a series of articles on building his track..in Steam in the Garden magazine..
I will check which specific issues tonight..you can probably still order the back issues from Ron..

Scot


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Scot, 

If you are going to bury it with earth and rocks it isn't elevated! You're escentially making one big fill? Wish I could do that but I don't want to do that much landscaping in my tiny yard and want to keep the track at about 30"-36" to avoid the hands and knees act for steaming. Ideally I'd like concrete but don't want to get into that big a project. A friend in Pittsford built a track with steel and a concrete road bed raised about 3' and it is very nice. 

Jack


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack,
yes, it seems we are talking about two different types of "elevated" track..
the problem is that the definition of "elevated" isnt strictly defined..
personally, I consider many of the "ladder roadbed" systems to be "elevated"..in the sense that they get the track up off the ground..
sometimes back filled, but other times left up in the air..

my railroad will be a mix..probably 75% buried, but also with sections left un-buried that will become bridges and trestles..

I see what kind of railroad you are talking about now! 
but I didnt know that initially..

Here are a few pics from other threads on MLS:

photo by "Bills"









Link

photo by "trains"


Link

Photo by Ken/RGSSJD









Link

those are all variations on the plastic "ladder method"..but are also clearly "elevated" lines..
so its all a grey area! 

Scot


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Scot, 

Thanks for the pics! I think a mix of ground level and elevated is the best way to go and wish I had the ability to do so. Don Sauers track seems to be an interesting mix allowing easy access on the elevated part and then running on the ground. Mostly I just want to be able to run a train. 

Jack


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack, 
I found the issue from Steam in the Garden, with Chuck's article on his raised track, 
I was thinking it was a 2-parter, but looks like its all in one issue: 

Issue No. 67. 

doesnt have a "issue date" associated with it..but its from 2002. 

Scot


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Scot, 

Thanks! Actually the pictures of Chuck's track are pretty self explanitory. 

Jack


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