# Caught in a pickle...



## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Caught in a pickle and figured I see what others thought, yes its been a while since I last posted.

I love big diesels long trains and wide sweeping curves seen on today's railroads. I have a handful of equipment and only a few that can be run on my 8' suspended loop in the garage. Mostly my LGB but I have a GP40 that can run as well. I fully intended to continue building my collection towards that end.

I also love Colorado narrow gauge and am considering the Bachmann K-27.

Compiling that love is Tom Millers Fn3 layout.

I simply can't afford to build both collections. Even worse considering the only layout I have and will have for some time, my options are somewhat shifted.

In my opinion I think it's the wiser choice to stop building a modern mainline empire and stick to narrow gauge for the time being.

Not only does the equipment look better on the smaller curves but with prototypical shorter trains I can afford to have a rolling stock. I also think with three boys under the age of 4 they will get a far bigger kick out of the K-27 with a sound unit that any of the diesels.


Any one have opinions they would like to share? Anyone have issues running the K27 on LGB 16000 curves? 


Thanks in advance.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You can have it both ways, but not as much of either as you might wish to have. I started in LGB in 1979, and enjoy it very much. As different scales became available I bought what I liked, when I could afford it. I now run 1:29, 1:20.3 and 1:22.5/24 when I feel like it. If you like both there is no need to limit your choices. Careful choices in both scales will lead to a nice collection in both. While I realize that 1:32 is correct for our track, I have not entered that scale. You can't have everything out all the time. Choose to run one scale one day and another some other day, that's what I do.


I run the Bachmann K-27 on 10' diameter curves and they don't have any problems with that diameter. I have not tried the Ks on the LGB 8' diameters, so I can't help you on that part of the question. 


I think that people on this site have said that it will run on 8' diameter curves, however, there will be a lot of overhang on the front end.


Chuck N


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

As someone with models in many scales from many continents in one collection..... 

The grass can be greener on the other side of the fence, but really whatever your "first interest" is what you will generally fall back to.


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Posted By Spule 4 on 02 Nov 2010 05:02 PM 
As someone with models in many scales from many continents in one collection..... 

The grass can be greener on the other side of the fence, but really whatever your "first interest" is what you will generally fall back to. 
Yeah but if that was true than all the trains would belong to me, or at least one each...LOL

On a serious note it was always my intent to model smaller lines as the scale go bigger. Which means modern BNSF would be modeled in N scale while a main 2' logging line would be modeled in a scale of ride behind. It's by no means perfect but it was my thought.

Although on the ride to work I got to thinking that my little loop with a stub siding and a passing track could simply host different equipment throughout the year. Diesel's one quarter, LGB the next, a K-27 and a Forney, etc. etc.

I like the idea of buy what I like though...


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I understand your dilemna. I too like big engines and long trains, but my railroad, although outside, has sharper curves and the bigger trains don't work as well. Since I do like more modern railroads, and prefer diesels, what I have done is develop a branch railroad - in my case a poor subsidiary of BNSF. My engines are either BNSF, or one of the predecessors of BNSF such as Santa Fe, Burlington Northern, and GReat Northern. As a result I use smaller engines, rejects from BNSF, and it is working well for me. This is sort of a compromise between modeling big Class 1 railroads, and older narrow gauge railroads.

Just one suggestion.

Ed


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

The equipment I have beeen gathering in the modern era is equipment used or could be used by the Dakota, Minnesota and Eastern. If you look at the real railroad GP-38's SD-40's are 95% of the motive power. The GP-40 was a purchased because it will make due. In addition DM&E aquired most of its GP-38's as old Rock Island units. My GP-40 happens to be a Rock Island unit. I was intending to get another, blcak out the road numbers and give them heavy weathering. Perhaps I should get the BN on sale right now and just paint it in DM&E colors. My Santa Fe SD-40-2 are still NIB and sporting the origional paint scheme. 

So I definitly have a solid direction that I'm going. However even DM&E as a Classs 2 railroad runs MU and long trains. My intent was to simulate the appearnace with double headed units and 20-25 car trains. That's still a fair amount of rolling stock I need to aquire in addition to other motive power. Lets face it these arn't Athern blue box cars...but its large scale I understand that.

My biggest issue is the lack of a real layout and a piece of real estate to be truely proud of. Which wouldn't be so bad but I think I'm the only large scaler in Norht Dakota...

Combined with a list of wants and that's awesome, I gues I'm just trying to find a way to focus my attention. I would have serious qualms having a large outdoor layout and run mixed scales, even if 1:29 is true so long as everything is close it works for me. An occosional 1:20.3 operating session would be accepted just fine.

Perhaps I should reserve the outdoor raiload for the DM&E and let the K-27 find a home indoors. After all it's next to impossible for me to duplicate the rockies in the plains of North Dakota.

Its quite possible would be the cheaper route, considering I already have a direction I'm headed towards. Perhaps I should let the K-27 live on my Xmas list and coninue pursuing the DM&E layout.

Either way I'm hoping to get a semi perminant ladder track layout of some sort setup in the spring, assuming we move to a larger home. 

Then who knows maybe I'll have both inter-twined like that of the fairplex layout I grew up with as a child.

Jeremy


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Im having it both ways too.. 
im building my railroad to 1/29 scale, standard gauge, in terms of track and structures. 
I have a 14-foot diameter outer loop, for my Alco PA's with Aristo heavyweights, and other standard gauge diesels and trains. 
but I also have some steamers I love (Big Haulers, a Spectrum mogul and a Bachmann "connie") 
even though I plan to build all structures to 1/29 scale, (and eventually have "standard gauge profile" track) 
I will simply run the steamers with some 1/24 scale rolling stock and simply not worry about the mis-match.. 

I dont think anyone has ever seen a real 1875 Baldwin mogul next to a real Alco PA.. 
even though the steam engine is quite a bit "too large", most people simply cant tell its too big.. 
it looks fine.. 

Scot


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

I really don't see this as a pickle. You can have it both ways. Besides, it is your railroad, and you are sharing it with the kids. The kids really won't care. The K-27 along with the GP40 are fun trains to run in their minds. Their imaginations will more than make up for any rivet counting discrepensies that may be aparent to more structured and regimented hobbyists (no feelings were intentionalyy maligned in the making of this post contribution). 

I am envious. I want it all, steam, diesel, and doodlebug. I am not proud, I just like trains. 

Fil


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Lots of things to consider. I don't think your boys are going to care one way or the other whether it's a 1:20.3 steam loco or a 1:29 diesel. They're just going to want to play with something that's big and runs around the garden. I was 5 when we started in large scale, and I didn't give a fig that the models we bought were European narrow gauge, bearing little--if any--resemblance to anything that ran in the US. I knew the roofs came off and I could put my Star Wars figures inside. My 4-year-old daughter loves her Playmobil train as much as she loves to put stuff in my 1:20.3 hopper cars as they run around the railroad. So, buy what you like--the boys won't be too picky. 

I agree that tight radius curves don't lend themselves aesthetically to long trains, so the narrow gauge stuff would probably be better suited. Having said that, the B'mann K-27 is a BIG locomotive, and while it may be capable of going around a 4' radius curve, will look a bit out of place doing so. I've got one myself, but seldom run it on the home railroad because it's really aesthetically "too big" for the railroad. It visually dwarfs it. I run mostly smaller locos 2-8-0s and 2-6-0s that are a bit better suited to the short sidings and 5' radius curves on my line. I take the K-27 to club meets and displays where it has the room to stretch its legs with a decent train in tow. Your GP-40 with a string of 40' cars would probably look a bit "better" on the tight curves, though you'd still probably be well-served to keep the train length down. 

If you like both pursuits, there's nothing keeping you from buying both. Run them on different days as the mood strikes. Some guys use a "compromise" scale on the buildings (typically 1:24) so they look okay-ish with both scales, instead of perfect for one, and way too large/small for the other. Other folks use different scale buildings in one town vs. another, so the trains match the buildings at one spot or another. Or, do the railroad to one scale, and run the other at club displays, etc. 

My personal choice was to focus on one specific scale, but I'm as much historian as I am modeler, so I'm looking to recreate a specific region and era. That's really what drives my choices. In many respects it's quite liberating in that I can appreciate the models in the other scales, but feel no compulsion to add them to my roster. I enjoy them through others' models in photos and at shows. 

Later, 

K


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeremy,

I'm in the same boat as you, family wise. I've got a 3 year old boy and a 6 week old girl. I've got mostly 1/29 trains, but have some old LGB 1/22.5 and a single bachmann 4-4-0 in 1:20.3. That 4-4-0 looks fine with the 1/22.5 cars and even the 1/29 cars. I've been tempted to add a 1/24 C-16 just because I like the paint schemes. I'm a run-what-you like kind of guy, though. 

My 3 year old prefers steam engines, and that's what he usually wants to run. All of my equipment can operate on 8' diameter curves, even the massive 2-8-8-2. We're looking forward to the aristo 2-8-0 that's coming out 'soonish'. That might be a good one for your indoor line. It could pull short trains or even an excursion train on your modern railroad. Luke likes to carry the freight cars and tenders. I suspect the 2-8-0 will be just right for him to pick up, too. 

Anyway, enough rambling. It is your railroad and your money, you get what you like and have fun!

Mark


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

What do _you_ prefer? That's the only questionthat really matters because that's the one that'll determine whether you run trains or not! Go with what you like best.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

If you are caught in a pickle then it is certainly a sweet one. 

I'd agree about the kids. From my own experiences and that of others as reported here and elsewhere the kids seem to be more interested at first in running and playing with the trains. That is important. The details will come from your's and their intereaction with the trains later. 

For me I started buying what I could afford and deciding to "collect" all the LG & B roadname stuff I could as well as all the roadname "stuff" that might have run locally in Western NY state. I am certain I've failed on all those points. When I started in the early 90's USAT was Charles Ro trains adn limited products at first. Aristocraft made Radios control accesories adn such and Polks with REA made trains. LGB was king and Lionel had a few odd items. Then there was the brass and high end stuff that I rarely if ever saw locally. Had I not worked at a local hobby shop I'd have no clues that LS even existed. I still buy what I like and that now includes battery and radio control as well as live steam and a whole lot of stored trains that ahve only been out of teh box for inspection when I recieved tham and then returned to storage. My first semi permanent layout is underway and hopefulyl will be operational before the snow flies here in the Ski country of western NY. If not I'll get it running when the snow clears. This hobby has always been about "someday" for me with a huge collecting aspect versus running trains so far. 

Buy what you like for the future and run what you can for now. Make sure it is fun for you and the kids and it will all work out. 

Chas


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Sweet, Dill or Gherkin?









I just couldn't resist

JJ


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 03 Nov 2010 10:08 AM 
Sweet, Dill or Gherkin?









I just couldn't resist

JJ 

Some might even relish it.


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

I realize this is almost a year old but as man of many hobbies each gets it's season. Seams large scale is on my thoughts as the weather cools, not sure if it's all those years with a train around the tree or something else. As a result I've been back on MLS a fair bit as of late definitely lurking but commented here and there. 

Took me a while but I finally came back to my pickle, yes it's still a pickle. The original bug was the "The Chili Line" by Steve Amitrano presented in MR's Great Model Railroads 2008. The following year "Denver, South Park & Pacific" was featured. The combination helped lock in the notion of time long past, and history. A great many modelers on MLS have also caused me to look into the allure of narrow gauge. 

I guess my thinking is that these smaller NG lines did it with one or two locomotives and dozen or so pieces of rolling stock where the current short lines move tons of material, with MU'd locomotives. I guess I'm finding the delusion I can mimic current railroad activity in large scale not a possible solution. And that by bashing my 10 wheeler into 1:20.3 and collecting a handful of 1:20.3 rolling stock, and maybe a K27 I can have a piece of history up and running vs an attempt to collect something I may never achieve. Certainly I will keep adding to my collection in an attempt to one day have a Class I large scale railroad in the backyard. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is my current collection can't represent anything. Where as I could if the same pieces where NG. 

I guess I'm having a hard time composing my thoughts as I've had a really bad day and just trying to compose myself.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

You know what Big, you sound like me about five years ago. I started in this hobby in 1985 with the old LGB 2018 D&SP mogul and some LGB narrow gauge passenger cars. I didn't have a big layout...only about 120 feet of LGB brass track with a little reversing loop. Then I started collecting USA diesel locos...a couple of SD40-2's and some rolling stock appropriate to the 1960's and 70's. This stuff gathered dust for quite a few years when I became involved in my 1.5" live steamer build and added rolling stock for this beast. But in late 2006, I stopped by Jonathan Bliese's booth at a train show and was bit by the 1:20.3 narrow gauge bug. I started rethinking my layout and what I wanted to model. So now I collect JUST 1:20 rolling stock appropriate to the D&RGW in the 1930's and 40's. I only need a couple of steam locomotives (Accucraft C19 and a Bachmann Connie), a couple dozen varied freight cars and 4 or five passenger cars. My point-to-point layout I'm building is ideal for NG operations.....short freight trains and short passenger trains. We all have to come to your decision sooner or later because we don't have the real estate for 50-100 car 1/29 trains pulled by 4 unit diesel consists with 1000-2000 feet of track. This NG stuff keeps me very busy. Good luck with your "pickle". We all have 'em.


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Gary, You don't by chance have a website or PDF of your layout do you? 

As much as I hate point to point it's all I have space for atm. But would love to have a pair of reverse loops to let her run so to speak. I just think even a K27 would look better on 10' diameter curves vs the big diesels. I like the Connie, out of production but the Forney is quaint as well. 

Thanks 
Jeremy


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

No website, but I DO have a pdf of my layout, but no way to post it here. If you send me your e-mail, I would be very happy to send a pdf along with some pdf's from variuos views along the route. I used MasterCam to design the layout.


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Well I got my annual Great Model railroads 2012. 1:29 large scale layout by Bob Spring inspired by Lance Mindheim Miami Rail Service East Switch. Very nice layout but alas it's gone as the owner has moved and is working on another indoor 1:29 scale layout in the attic of a barn, approximately 29'x28'. 

Both very nice layouts, I've always been fond of Lance's Miami based layouts, for the complex switching achieved with a minimal amount of trackwork. 

Honestly I think this maybe a better direction to go for now. Already having a collection of diesels and a handful of cars I really don't need anymore loco's to operate a small switching layout, for the price of a K27 I can purchase additional cars to that end. This pickle isn't over I'm sure but for this period of large scale interest. 

It would be interesting to take Richard Smiths layout concept into urban design.


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