# LGB Mogul on a 1:20.3 railroad?



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hello forum,


I recently got a lot of 8 1:20,3 scale freight cars made by Accucraft and Bachmann. I could pull them with my Bachmann Shays, but I ever had some nuts in the Colorado & Southern, so why not go for a small freelanced branchline in the garde?


What I wonder is, if the LGB Mogul would fit the large scale cars. I knew that it's in 1:22.5 scale, but how much makes it in the end?
I also have thoughts to use her on the AMS coaches some day.


Is there any other 1:20,3 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 which might work better?
I was always in love with the outside frame 2-8-0. Not perfect prototype, but a nice looking engine.



Importand to know for you, I won't go for a K27 or other huge loco. My garden railroad is short on track-length as are the stations, so I'm only able to handle short trains (3-4 cars plus caboose). So any 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 seem to make sense for me. Just as the C&S.


Thanks for tips and hints, maybe for some comparising photos. I already searched the web and forum to get ideas, but they were not what I'm looking for to find a decision.


Gerd


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Is there any other 1:20,3 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 which might work better?


Can't speak for the LGB mogul, but the little Bachmann Spectrum 1:20.3 2-6-0 loco has just been re-released and is a magnificent piece of work. Working (fake) piston rods, springing, etc., etc.
Older ones can be had for less $$ and usually just need a gear swap. (Kevin outlined it in a thread on the Bachmann forums.) Mine cost $75 as someone dropped it on a hard floor so I had to find a stack. I also substituted the Aristo 2-8-0 tender - see pic below. Cars are all 1:20.3.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Gerd,

Don't know if this will be of any help to you but at about 4 minutes in on this video the LGB Mogul has been cut in at the end of the train as a helper. The cars are all 1:20 AMS and Bachmann.
Rick


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hello Rick,


many thanks, that's a goot comparison and exactly what I was looking for.
I made some meassuremnts and calculations from internet photos of the 2-6-0 and plans from NGSL Gazette first, but concidering the video you posted, she seem to match well.


The new Bachmann Mogul is also nice.



Regrads, Gerd


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Without question, the LGB mogul will work very well in the 1:20.3 world. It's on par in size with the moguls which ran on the Waynesburg & Washington RR in western Pennsylvania. 

Here's the prototype:










These were fairly small engines--around 12000 pounds tractive effort, but for small railroads like the W&W and similar roads, that's all they needed. If the grades weren't steep, these locos could pull 6 - 8 cars without trouble. The LGB mogul measures within two or three inches of the prototype in almost all measurements. The noticeable difference is that the drivers on the LGB mogul scale too small (36" vs. 40") and the boiler is fatter. But height, width, boiler centerline above the rails, tender dimensions... darned near spot on. 

As coincidence would have it, I'm just finishing up a model based on the W&W loco using an LGB mogul.










The genesis for this project was a situation very similar to the question here. I had someone tell me the LGB mogul was unsuitable for 1:20.3 because it was a 1:22.5 model of its prototype. True enough--it's actually very accurate in 1:22.5 for the DSP&P prototype--but it scales out remarkably well when measured in 1:20.3 to other known prototypes. 

Here's a photo of it next to my C-19:










Photos of this loco under construction can be found here:
http://tuscarorarailroad.blogspot.com/2018/01/tuscarora-rr-6.html

In terms of prototypes, this isn't remotely the smallest example of a mogul, either. The East Broad Top's first two locomotives were very small Baldwins, with a mere 5,000 pounds tractive effort. 










Here's a model I built of that loco, also using an LGB Mogul chassis as a starting point. The loco was so small I couldn't use the LGB boiler or cab, opting instead for a Delton C-16 boiler and cab from a Bachmann mogul. For size comparison, that's a K-27 behind it. 










Hope this helps. TRR #6 has fast become a crew favorite. I'll be posting more photos once I'm finished weathering her up a bit. 

Later,

K


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hello,


thanks for your help ;-)
So the let's see if I can get a LGB 2-6-0 with C&S lettering which would fit nicely to the other rolling stock.


Gerd


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

The D&RGW leased three C-19s - 343, 345, and 346 - to the C&S The 346 stayed there until the end of the C&S NG operation.

For a time we used the LGB 2-6-0 on our 1:20.3 railway. They are nice locomotives but do not have that US NG look. The US locomotives over time got wider and the C-19 in front of a string of 1:20.3 cars looks great.

Stan.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

StanleyAmes said:


> They are nice locomotives but do not have that US NG look.


Technically, they do, since they're models of US narrow gauge locos.  What they don't have is a whole lot of bulk to them, which if you're used to the aesthetics of the D&RGW's K-series locos or even the larger outside-frame C-series locos is a very noticeable difference. If that's the narrow gauge aesthetic you're used to seeing, then pretty much anything else is going to look small. Consider this--the W&W moguls had a tractive effort of around 12,000 pounds. The EBT mogul only mustered a paltry 5,000 pounds! By comparison, the C-19 had a tractive effort of 18,900 pounds. 

Now, let's put that in perspective. A C-19 on a 4% grade, was good for three or four loaded freight cars. That's it. A loco with only 12,000 pounds tractive effort would be good for two, maybe three at the most. That's why these smaller locos weren't used in the Rocky Mountains. The grades were just too steep for them to be effective. 

Back east, the grades were much gentler. In most cases, the grades were under 3%, so these lighter locos could pull longer trains. What they did have, though, were very tight curves as they followed twisting rivers running through the valleys. The Waynesburg & Washington had at least one 37-degree curve. That's 164' radius (about 8' in 1:20.3). Long-wheelbase locos need not apply in those situations. On the other hand, the 2-6-0s with their short wheelbases were very well-suited for those environments. 

The upshot is that whether a loco as small as an LGB mogul would be suitable for your railroad has a lot to do with the railroad you're modeling. You wouldn't see a loco like that pulling more than 6 or so cars even on moderate grades. If you're modeling a railroad with particularly steep grades, then your trains get a lot shorter. 

Later,

K


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hello,


many thanks for the details on the prototype locos, traction effort and cars per train on grades.
I'm not going to build a particular line. It's more or less running some "Colorado style narrow gauge trains" on my logging based (future to build) garden railroad.
So my trains will have to deal with 4% grades and 4-car trains will be longest which can be held in my station tracks. Now I know that 2-8-0s like the C-19 are the best for me.

Anyway, since the C19 is not cheap at the moment, I could get a cheap outside frame 2-8-0 by Bachmann for the beginning. I guess with some special attention and rebuilds, the loco will suit well into my little railroad.


Gerd


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Historically, the C&S's moguls were used on their passenger trains, which were between three and four cars. People don't weigh nearly as much as freight, so a fully-loaded passenger car weighed a lot less than a fully-loaded freight car. 

The Bachmann "connie" is a great loco; just be sure to order the replacement gear from either Bachmann (if they have them in stock) or Northwest Short Line (part #2226-6). If you can find a 2nd-hand loco with a Barry's Big Trains replacement drive in it, even better, but expect that to add about $200 to the cost of the loco. 

Later,

K


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks for the hints on the 2-8-0. I'm familiar with the "gears" on Bachmann locos, as I've a first batch Shay, still in operation with it's original gears, which I was able to fix very simple. I'll check the drive and will act as necessary.

Can someone tell me what the barrels on top of the boilers are used for on the C&S steam locos?
Are they for fuel for the lightning? I also wonder, why they're not shown on all locos.

Gerd


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

They are air tanks. With limited space they put them up on top the boiler.


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks, you won't belive - just 15 minutes later, I ran exactly into the same information on google... *lol*


Got my outside frame 2-8-0 today. Yes, shes has the well known gear issue... But also some other broken parts. And I'm also surprised how big she is. I knew that the loco is huge, I saw one may years ago, but she's still huge beside the 1:20.3 scale rolling stock. I made comparisons to drawings in the NGSL Gazettes and figured out that the loco is close to a C-25.


Anyhow - let's see if I'll spend a repair to the loco, or return it for refund, as the loco was described in better shape as she actual is.


Gerd


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

Lol. Happens. Yes it is a big locomotive. I have two.. one bashed into a 1:24 scale K27 and one I'm turning into a C25 like engine.


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## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Happy me, the seller agreed to a return, so I send the loco back today and wait for the refund.
Maybe I'll spend the money into a C-19.


Gerd


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