# My experiences with Aristo's MRL "New Version" SD-45



## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Shown below is the Aristo yellow box having a sticker identifying the Montana Rail Link (MRL) SD-45 as a "New 2012 Version" .










I got this "sale" unit prior to Aristo-Craft going out of business as of year end, December 2013.
It's a 2012 production run unit.










The MRL loco I got has some changes from prior production runs I have, with my particular unit, also, suffering from some quality problems, compounded by the rigors of shipping.

*First, the obvious changes *

The "new version" SD-45 has a metal plate stack for weight. My previous version has blocks of lead. 










The "new version" has motor blocks with blackened ferrous metal wheels (looks like sintered iron). 
The wheels press fit on round axles ends having a "D" flat (rather than prior version with plated brass wheels affixed to conical shaped axle ends). The flange depth is a little less, too. It measures about 0.100 inch compared to the old wheels that are about 0.120 inch.










*Problems*:

The unit I got had the Left front hand rail assembly missing from the box









The cab window assembly was broken away from "fireman's" side (faulty gluing) Also, the engineer's side rear cab window was glued in the closed position!










The brake wheel recess assembly got dislodged from the rear body (again, faulty gluing)










The rear motor block had an open circuit on one of its electric motors due to a cold solder joint at one of the "forks" that supplies power to it. This caused only one of the two motors in the rear block to operate - resulting in delayed response, slow operation and weak performance. I fixed it by removing the center wheel that was adjacent to the problem fork and resoldered the connection. Since the fork and motor lead are a right angles to one-another, the contact surface is not very much, which may explain why these connections had a ball of solder there, but it worked.










The wheel treads shed their black finish. Not good for for track power users since rail head deposits made worse by mixing with dirt, etc. can result in poor electrical pickup .










*The biggest problem to deal with was the missing hand rail*.

No matter how many emails sent using different addresses and phone calls made to Aristo service, I got no where. None of the emails were answered, and the one of several phone calls to Navin was on hold indefinitely. I like Navin and he is normally very good, but I guess Aristo going out of business had a lot to do with it.

Consequently, I decided to try and make a hand railing assembly of maybe less than satisfactory appearance with the idea of getting the proper assembly (new or used) at some later date. However, I was able to make the assembly (with its stanchion) to look almost identical to the original. The stanchion was the most difficult part to replicate. 

To make the assembly, I used a large paper clip and rebent it to the desired shape. I then made the stanchion, using 0.015 inch thick brass sheet material purchased from Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH).










To form the stanchion by hand was difficult and time consuming, but I was able to do it.










I was, also, able to replicate the upper wrap and lower clip ends of the stanchion.
The clip end goes into the loco side frame slot for fastening it to the loco.










Once the stanchion was fastened to the railing, I painted it to match the MRL SD-45 colors.

The left front hand rail bends and stanchion size had been copied from another SD-45. When installed, it looked very much like a factory made part.



















A comparison can be seen from the above MRL SD-45 fabricated railing and the below Wisconsin Central original "master".










Shown below are more views of the loco.














































*Repairing (regluing) the Cab Windows & Brake Wheel Assy*.

I took off the body shell and removed all the parts with respect to the cab to gain access for doing the repairs.










The windows are to be placed in the slots (making sure you orient them correctly), then the lower frame that retain them (and slide against) is bonded into the cab's channels using CA type glue.










To repair the engineer's side, the windows were popped loose and lower frame reglued, so the windows would now be able to slide open as they should - shown below with everything reassembled.










The brake wheel assembly was, also, re-glued with the shell off. Shown below is the MRL SD-45 assembled with the brake wheel in place.










*Weight Added to the MRL SD-45:*

The MRL SD-45 out of the box weight measured 9.6 lbs. An "old version" SD-45 with 3 lead weights is about 14 lbs.










I decided to add more weight in the bottom of the fuel tank - keeping in mind to maintain a clearance of about 0.70 inch for the existing weight stack when the tank is reinstalled.










The fuel tank is held in place by two plastic tabs on each side of the upper part of the tank.
These can be pried and popped out by inserting a small flat blade screw driver against each of the tabs from the top side with the body shell removed.










I chose to use number 9 lead shot (obtained from a firearms store) placed in a zip lock bag repurposed from holding cough drops. Since no. 9 lead shot balls are very small, I lined the zip lock bag with another plastic bag for added assurance so the little balls would be well retained. The bag is placed in the tank and then filled with the no. 9 lead shot whilst "kneading it" into the tank's lower side crevices using my fingers and thumbs.










By adding about 4.5 lbs to the tank, the weight of the MRL SD-45 is close in weight to prior production run units having 3 lead weights. There is more room in the tank to add more lead shot if so desired.










Once the tank is weighted, it is popped into the chassis and held there by its 4 plastic tabs.
Because of the extra weight, to assure the tabs would not pop loose, an object can be forced into the slot adjacent to each of the installed tabs. I used Q tip stubs.










With the added weight, the completed loco weighs 14 lbs.










For a bit more info., see Appendix A[/b] in article "*Aristo SD45 weights & railing installation Vignette*".

-Ted


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I have to say, Ted, you are awesome!! I agree that the missing railing, for me, would have been a big time serious problem. Your fabricated replacement really came out nice. If it were me, I sure wouldn't waste my time looking for an "Aristo railing". While I am sure the other problems were annoying (at least they would have been for me), the final engine when you finished repairing it, certainly is a beautiful engine. Hope you get years of good operation out of it!

Ed


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

As always nice write up Ted, I did not have glue problems wish i did since i'm repainting mine. I washed my wheels with rubbing alcohol to get the black off. Found the wheel gauge to be close, spacing out was ease my wheels were only 
light press came right off then thin spacer. I found the same with the solder my thought is they just stood back and dropped it in. 

Thanks for your time to write this up. 

Dick


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thank you Ed and Dick.

The MRL SD-45 I have wheel backspacing measured in spec. per NMRA standard, so I did not re-gauge them. The loco runs OK on my layout, maybe because I optimized all turnouts owing to the *Stainless Steel loco wheels* I had made for me by Datum Precision (having 0.080 inch flange dept).

I did clean the wheel treads using alcohol, too, and that took off more black material. After doing this at least the treads would be OK when "dry" cleaning.

-Ted


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Now isn't that great that you have the ability and desire to do all those repairs? It was much better than sending it back to be done. Good Job Ted. 
OH,OH OH, Ted buddy ol pal, can you do a thread on how you made the stanchion? That may be my answer to 1" scale stanchions?? That is why I never finished the one inch GP 40.


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Great work and pictures Ted.








I too would like to see how you made the stanchion.

Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

I did not take pictures whilst making the SD45 stanchion since it was the first attempt, and fortunately I only needed one.
Normally, I take pictures on follow-ons since I know then what to do. 

The following is the description excerpted from the Vignette that I updated on Greg's Web site (link shown in previous post).

To form the stanchion by hand was difficult and time consuming, but I was able to do it using a machinist hammer, pliers and hobby vice. I cut a 1/4 inch strip from the sheet brass and used the non teeth, reinforced edge of a worn out razor saw to shape the "U" channel of the stanchion. As it turned out, the thickness of the non teeth edge formed about 0.100 inch wide "U", so it was close to being like the factory stanchion. To do so, I was able to prebend the brass strip like a "V" and then put it in the vise and squeezed whilst the hammer was used to strike against the teeth of the razor saw to seat the bottom of brass strip, making it a "U" from the "V". It took much checking to avoid twisting the channel as I progressively formed the "U".

As to doing a stanchion for Marty's 1" scale, I would first look to see if you buy some sort of channel iron, etc. before spending the time on making one.

-Ted


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted 
They used to cast them is what I have been told. Riding rails co. I thought about cutting tubing in half because I need strong material. I may look into the brass stock. Plastic is too weak. thanks


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Marty,

I have seen hollow square tubing stock in various sizes at Orchard Supply Hardware (OSH). If you can find one that is correct for 1" scale, maybe you could figure out how to cut it in half along its longitudinal axis.

-Ted


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted, 
Nice work on the stanchion. I have bent many a handrail through the years out of brass stock which is not too difficult,but stanchions are another story. One thing that has always bothered me about the Aristo SD45's and for that matter the GP40's are the fan housings. If you look at prototype photos most all of them have the taller housings to the rear and the lower ones over the dynamic brakes. Bugs me,so I have always reversed them. Still not entirely correct but better. I ordered several replacements during Aristos sale and have swapped them on my new MRL unit. Hopefully I will get to it in a month or two for conversion to RC and battery plus a few details like a plow and reworking the sideframes. I will be sure to check the motor connections.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thank you Paul. 

I am aware of the fan height the besets the Aristo SD and GP locos. Looking in books verifies your observation about this. In some cases, fans are replaced with different height ones, but not a whole row of them. 
I am surprised you were able to get the fans from Aristo as they are not known for keeping many parts like that. 

-Ted


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I did not have glue problems wish i did since i'm repainting mine 

I second Dick413's emotion. Undecs are hard to find as it is. As a repainter I love finding a window that falls out when you just look at it. I wish the manufacturers would give us a box filled with the pieces; it'd be a lot easier than having to mask all the windows, number boards, headlights, etc., etc. 

Beyond that, I'm amazed that Ted could figure out a way to make the missing stanchion. Actually, I've learned plenty from his various vignettes - I shouldn't be surprised at all. 

JackM


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice write up Ted. I also had the glue problem on my High Hood SD 45 that I had posted here back in Jan of 13. Also had other issues. Interesting about the truck pick-up. Thanks for that tip. Later RJD


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## mwbridgwater (Jan 11, 2014)

Hi everyone â€" I just joined today, and what inspired me to do so was this thread; thought Iâ€™d add my two cents worth. Iâ€™m a little on the odd side, having spent literally hundreds of hours measuring and drawing locomotive construction details (particularly EMD) from actual units (emphasis on SP) for the purpose of scratch building. 

As pointed out above, the Aristo fans have always been placed backwards (dynamic/radiator flip-flopped). Strange, that they went to the trouble of making them different, then still got it wrong. For those interested in getting the nit-picky details just right, Iâ€™ll offer the following information: 

Besides the miss-placed locations, another error Aristo made was in how they rendered the height difference. The difference between the two is actually in the base (called the â€œfan frameâ€�) and not the upper ring which is part of the removable grille assembly. One can see that Aristo did this the other way around: the upper section is where they added the extra height. 

The radiator and dynamic fans are of very different designs (internally) which contributes to why they are different on the outside, as well. The radiator fans are AC powered, from the auxiliary generator (AC, but referred to as â€œgeneratorâ€�), and the dynamic fans (actually called â€œdynamic brake grid blowersâ€�) are DC powered from the traction motors acting as generators when running down-grade. 

Getting to the point, the fan frame height for the radiator is 5â€� from the top of the hood, for the dynamic brake is 2-3/8â€�â€¦ thereâ€™s the difference (Also, the radiator fan frame is one piece with a large radius in the corner between the vertical and horizontal portions (1-3/4â€� radius), and the dynamic frame is two pieces welded together (a horizontal ring and vertical shroud with sharp corner at their intersection.) The grille assemblies on top are interchangeable, and the height of the side shroud (that the grillwork is welded to) is 4-3/4â€� for all. 

I hope this makes sense, thought some might be interested. 

Mark


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## mwbridgwater (Jan 11, 2014)

I just happened to run across these two photos that illustrate the radiator and dynamic difference pretty well, courtesy of Don Strack:

Radiator (top of the photo)
http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Locomotive-Details/Locomotive-Details/i-Rv9HB3s/A

Dynamic Brake
http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Locomotive-Details/Locomotive-Details/i-bfTfWRR/A

Mark


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm just glad I'm getting backed up on the fan height and placement. I mentioned this more than once on the old Aristo site several years ago and got nowhere. They easily could have at least reversed them on later runs. Oh well,water under the bridge now. At least I have some spares in case I need them for a future purchase. 
Here is my kitbashed SD40R. A kitbash of a SD45 and GP40,kind of like what EMD did to come up with an SD40. Don't confuse a SD40 with a SD40-2,different animal. Notice fans and modified sideframes.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Nice work Paul I like it. as far as vents go i think it depends on R.R. look at ft. two vents and rear vents in this pic. 

 


Dick


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Non - Original replacements ... 

....so it also allows modelers license to use fans from other locos to depict an aged loco that has seen parts changed over it's lifetime..and several owners 

Dirk...


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree Dirk. Two of them have been replaced. Fairly common through the years for repairs and such.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted 

How did you determine the which motor wasn't pulling? 

I have a Dash 9 that has never seemed to have the power or speed I expected. I've tried both a 14.8 and a 18.5 volt battery. 

Randy


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## mwbridgwater (Jan 11, 2014)

Nice looking job on that SD40, Paul.

As for the fans on #681 above, it's likely that the only grille, or cover (not the base below) original to this unit is the one in the front radiator position. The style over the dynamic fans was definitely the production standard by the beginning of the -2 line, but may have started just a little earlier than that... I haven't pinned down the exact change-over date yet. It's very possible that all, or nearly all SD45s were built with the grille that has the cap in the center (This particular style of the center cap grill was introduced with the GP/SD/DD35). This cap is essentially the same diameter as the fan hub, so no airflow is occurring in that area anyway. The change to the all-steel rod style we see over the dynamic brake in this photo was a cost cutting measure; more expensive to produce that cap than just continue the grillwork right to the center. By the way, as a point of interest, these fan covers were not made by EMD; they were outsourced to a company that specialized in making spot welded, wire formed products like these.

Mark


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 12 Jan 2014 02:29 PM 
Ted 

How did you determine the which motor wasn't pulling? 

I have a Dash 9 that has never seemed to have the power or speed I expected. I've tried both a 14.8 and a 18.5 volt battery. 

Randy Randy,
[*]First, I removed the bottom cover from the motor block. [*]Then I connected clip-on jumpers from the motor block's bright metal center strip on the top side (includes "forks" hidden in motor block) to a bench power supply so I could run the motors.[*]Then I used a small metal paper clip bent out end that I ground a pointed tip on so it would fit down in the crevasse where the motor leads connect to the forks.[*]Whilst poking the metal clip at each motor / fork connection, I knew I found the bad connection (cold solder joint) when the wheel speed increased.[*]I removed the center wheel to gain access to the "U" slot provided on the side of the motor block so I could insert the soldering iron tip to resolder the connection.
[/list]-Ted


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ted 
did you do any thing to center the axles like you did with the 40's? 
thanks Dick


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Dick413 on 13 Jan 2014 08:52 AM 
Ted 
did you do any thing to center the axles like you did with the 40's? 
thanks Dick 

If what you mean is using the nylon spacer washers between wheels and motor block like I did for the GP40's 2 axle motor blocks, the answer is no. Unlike the USAT 3 axle blocks that are comprised of a short wheel base 2 axle block and articulated "floppy" 3rd pony axle, the Aristo 3 axle motor block needs notable axle displacement so its wheel flanges won't bind up against the rails when going around 8 foot diameter curve tracks.

-Ted


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted, I'm thinking that if I anchor the Dash 9 in place and throttle up, both trucks should break traction if all motors are pulling. If one motor is not, then only the truck with both motors would break traction or at least break traction before the other. Wouldn't this tell me if I have a truck not working properly and also which truck has the problem?


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Give it a try Randy. Though if both trucks have a problem, it may confuse the issue. 
With my MRL SD 45, I put the loco on rollers and noticed its rear truck was late in starting - so I removed that block and trouble shot from there. 

-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Hi Ted,
Nice work as usual.
I was wondering if you have ever try to get the wheels from Aristo, or anyone else for that matter,
replated. If so how did it turn out and what was the cost?
Thanks, Ron


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Yes Ted that is the answer i was looking for 
Thank you 
Dick


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 13 Jan 2014 03:25 PM 
Hi Ted,
Nice work as usual.
I was wondering if you have ever try to get the wheels from Aristo, or anyone else for that matter,
replated. If so how did it turn out and what was the cost?
Thanks, Ron

Thanks Ron;

No, I did not try to get Aristo Wheels re plated since I had *new stainless steel wheels* made for me by Datum Precision.

-Ted


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks for the great write-up (terrific pics) on your experiences (and fixes) with your MRL unit. 

I always figured it was only USAT' that had the problems with inferior glue jobs on the add-on parts {based on my two undec'd GP-9s(2) and 44Ton' We'll probably see more of this 'quality' considering that reportedly the majority of MR product is generated using the same workforce wearing multiple caps !! 

2001 SD-45 HM one window assembly did come loose but that was due to a couple winters on snow plow duty !! 
I know that 1 of 2 MRLs that arrived up here last month had a problem with window assembly collapse. 

Inevitable that any plated/coating material will rub-off at some point. 

Novice when it comes to this . . . . . . . I presume I need rollers for all 6 axles to really qc them ? 

Thanks again ! 

doug c 


p.s. be interesting to see when our PARs SD-45s are finally unpacked.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used just four roller blocks on the six axle trucks will work fine that way also. Later RJD


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks RJ !


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope to have a supplement to this topic up in a few days. I have a MRL unit from the same run as Ted's that I have been working on for RC conversion, detailing and weathering. Just a couple more small things to complete.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

I updated the *main article* on Greg's Web site to include more material, including the 3 axle truck motor forks and that the MRL SD45 back to back wheel spacing can be way too tight and how to fix it! 

The following illustrations show some of the material:
(Note: Since VBulletin automatically seems to size reduces even off site 800 wide pictures, at least they allow you to click to enlarge to see it better, so do it here.)

Motor block shown below:










Back to Back wheel spacing shown below:










-Ted


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