# Best DCC system for beginners



## mjll1958 (Jan 2, 2016)

I am trying to see which DCC system I should buy as a beginner. I need something simple yet robust enough to run trains on 4 different sets of tracks, including consists. My fleet consists of LGB FA and FB units ungraded with Zimo and powered B units, LGB Diesels ungraded with Zimo, LGB diesels and steam engines with modern LGB decoders, 2 LGB Diesels with ESU Lok Sound 5 units, a new USA GG1, and older LGB units with older LGB 1st generation decoders and LGB and USA analog engines. I know I can't run the analog units or even the 1st generation LGB decoder engines with a modern DCC unit so I will set aside part of the layout for them or wire it so I can switch it easily between analog and DCC. This system is for my indoor layout and I may use it too replace the Zimo I have outdoors.

I actually started using a basic 3 amp Digitrax system on part of the indoor layout. It worked well for about 5 months then started having all sorts or problems. It turned out those units were defective and I sent it back under warranty for repair. I actually bought the part to upgrade that system to a 8 amp but I am going to sell all those components when I get the repaired unit back from Digitrax . It turns out many of the cases were defective and also the B key which is used to lock in programming was defective too. I lost the programming on 3 locomotives and since I don't have a programer they are just sitting. That defective unit made me crazy and I thought I was just an idiot but after following all advise and instructions from digitrax and other competent people, I realized the unit was junk. 

I was looking at the Massoth system and the Roco system. I currently have the Zimo system on my outdoor layout but I need a local friend t help me with it since I find it so complicated. I can only get the trains to run and if anything stops working he has to fix it. I just find that system too confusing. When it breaks.I just return to analog. I have read a great deal of the manuals for both the Roco and Massoth system and actually can understand much of it, unlike the Zimo manual with reads like Chinese to me. 

I also have a layout at my home in FL which is mostly battery powered RailPro but I have some conventional engines using track power so I may want to add DCC at some point. 

I appreciate any input. I find that all the manufacture have limited US service and it is all on-line and some is better than others.
thank you
Michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The Zimo system is indeed complex, a lot of options, which means a lot of stuff. But to just run trains I find it pretty straightforward. If I can help there, let me know. I assume you have read some of my getting started pages on the Zimo system already.

On a starter system, I would try NCE, the menu system is straightforwards, you can hook the system to other control systems for automation, and You can start really small and then add in 5 amp increments.

If the Zimo is complex, the Massoth will be maddening... go read GscaleCentral.com and see all the arcane things you have to do if your Massoth system does not like you. I can give you some great examples.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Which Zimo system? I have both the MX1 and MX10. Greg has the MX10. I have used the MX1 for more than 10 years and find it easy to use.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

mjll1958 said:


> I am trying to see which DCC system I should buy as a beginner. I need something simple yet robust enough to run trains on 4 different sets of tracks, including consists. My fleet consists of LGB FA and FB units ungraded with Zimo and powered B units, LGB Diesels ungraded with Zimo, LGB diesels and steam engines with modern LGB decoders, 2 LGB Diesels with ESU Lok Sound 5 units, a new USA GG1, and older LGB units with older LGB 1st generation decoders and LGB and USA analog engines. I know I can't run the analog units or even the 1st generation LGB decoder engines with a modern DCC unit so I will set aside part of the layout for them or wire it so I can switch it easily between analog and DCC. This system is for my indoor layout and I may use it too replace the Zimo I have outdoors.
> 
> I actually started using a basic 3 amp Digitrax system on part of the indoor layout. It worked well for about 5 months then started having all sorts or problems. It turned out those units were defective and I sent it back under warranty for repair. I actually bought the part to upgrade that system to a 8 amp but I am going to sell all those components when I get the repaired unit back from Digitrax . It turns out many of the cases were defective and also the B key which is used to lock in programming was defective too. I lost the programming on 3 locomotives and since I don't have a programer they are just sitting. That defective unit made me crazy and I thought I was just an idiot but after following all advise and instructions from digitrax and other competent people, I realized the unit was junk.
> 
> ...


Hi - The ESU 50310 CabControl DCC Digital System is a good deal for $400. It comes with a 7 Amp Power Supply that connects to the Command Station which has adjustable output voltage from 14 - 21 Volts for use with mutiple scales..........use 18 - 21 for large scale. It also comes with a wireless handheld throttle with touch screen that looks like a large cell phone design. Many DCC systems can cost $500 to over $1000. Of couse, ESU does have the EcOS DCC Digital System with five control technologies, mfx, dcc, etc, with a large touch screen and also uses the same wireless throttle for $915. If you're interested, there's information on my Website: ESU & MASSOTH DCC Decoders| LGB Parts & Accessories | (olddominionrailways.com)


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> DCC Digital System is a good deal for $400.


No wonder I stay clear of DCC. You need a big wallet for that stuff.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

Pete - Correct, an investment is required! But what fun..........closest thing to feeling like you're a locomotive engineer being able to control multiple trains and track switches with a wireless controller. The biggest cost is converting a hobbyist's existing locomotive fleet from DC Analog to DCC Sound............averages $350 - $550 per locomotive parts and labor. My basic labor fee is $150 for installing the decoder and speaker and setting all the CVs. Additional accessories is extra such as installing a Massoth Pulsed Smoke Generator. Of course DIY hobbyist can save the labor costs.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You do NOT need a big wallet! You can buy a basic 2 amp system for $159









NCE 5240025 Power Cab DCC Starter System


Our #1 Selling DCC Starter System is Packed with Value and Easy to Use!




tonystrains.com





It does everything.... has consisting, POM, NMRA service mode with paged/register/direct CV programming

You can add a 5 amp booster for $55



Tam Valley Depot



the power supply appropriate for large scale is about $15...

I really wish people that do not know would not make assertions that EVERYTHING in DCC is expensive.

This system can be expanded to wireless inexpensively, and you can use a free cell phone app to control your trains.

Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I prefer to keep my electronics below $150 per loco. Including sound. The Tam Valley is nice, but a wireless interface is about $70-90 so you are looking at over $200 plus parts.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, are you talking about the subject, DCC starter system? It sure does not seem that is what you are talking about.

Are you trying to change the subject to the per loco price? and not DCC? Why?

(by the way, on a per loco price, small locos can use HO decoders and that can be in the $70-80 range, but this is not what the thread and the OP are about right here).

Greg


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

mjll1958 said:


> I am trying to see which DCC system I should buy as a beginner. I need something simple yet robust enough to run trains on 4 different sets of tracks, including consists. My fleet consists of LGB FA and FB units ungraded with Zimo and powered B units, LGB Diesels ungraded with Zimo, LGB diesels and steam engines with modern LGB decoders, 2 LGB Diesels with ESU Lok Sound 5 units, a new USA GG1, and older LGB units with older LGB 1st generation decoders and LGB and USA analog engines. I know I can't run the analog units or even the 1st generation LGB decoder engines with a modern DCC unit so I will set aside part of the layout for them or wire it so I can switch it easily between analog and DCC. This system is for my indoor layout and I may use it too replace the Zimo I have outdoors.
> 
> I actually started using a basic 3 amp Digitrax system on part of the indoor layout. It worked well for about 5 months then started having all sorts or problems. It turned out those units were defective and I sent it back under warranty for repair. I actually bought the part to upgrade that system to a 8 amp but I am going to sell all those components when I get the repaired unit back from Digitrax . It turns out many of the cases were defective and also the B key which is used to lock in programming was defective too. I lost the programming on 3 locomotives and since I don't have a programer they are just sitting. That defective unit made me crazy and I thought I was just an idiot but after following all advise and instructions from digitrax and other competent people, I realized the unit was junk.
> 
> ...


Hi Michael - If you're still interested in getting another DCC system, the ESU Cab Control Digital System is a very economical approach. It comes with a 7 amp DC power supply, the command station which has outputs for both your layout and a programming track, and a handheld Mobil Control II wireless controller/throttle with touch screen screen for $400. The system has the RailCom2 feature which provides for automatic population of locomotives with DCC decoders that are Railcom capable such as ESU DCC decoders and the latest LGB/Marklin DCC locomotives. You can also add an ESU Booster unit for extra large layouts operating many locomotives. And, of course, if you need a large capacity command station, there's the Massoth 12 Amp Central Station but has no Railcom features. Check out my Website for addtional details.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The Zimo DCC system will run the older MTS serail only decoders (55020). You just have to set the handheld unit for 14 speed steps on that engines address. I have done this many times. I have several friemds that have the MTS II parallel system and program their engines with my zimo system and verify the running and then reverify on their MTS system.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So Dan, if I change to 14 speed steps on the Zimo MX32, does it automatically change function command output to serial?

If so, can you override this and run in 14ss and parallel functions?

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I never tried to make the zimo system system send serial functions at the press of one key. I always verified the MTS serial customers with a real serial only MTS system.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan, under the E+1 menu, you will see Pulse Chain = no, but I cannot enable it. That will do serial. There must be a trick but there it is per loco in the Zimo system.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If you can not enable it then my guess is it may be available in future updates.


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## ansleyl (Dec 27, 2007)

Greg Elmassian said:


> You do NOT need a big wallet! You can buy a basic 2 amp system for $159
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been looking for another booster, I have a Procab with a Bachmann 5 Amp booster now, but it only goes to 18v and my LGB Mikados and a few other engines run very slow, even a max speed, but my DC transformers in DC mode they are fine. I usually don't run my trains very fast, but on occasion it would be nice. I've looke at these Tam Valley boosters before, I'm a tinkerer and these look t obe perfect. I have several 6 A 24v power supplies, I assume if I use 24V input I will have higher power on the DCC output? I think I might try one of these, do you have experience using one?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Some decoders have separate DC and DCC max speed settings. My Zimo decoders have this for sure!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I use the 5amp tam valley, works well, yes your trains will run faster, the speed vs voltage is nonlinear, all the speed is in the last few volts. If you are feeding your booster with 18v DC, then you are getting probably 15v DCC on the rails, and then the motor is getting a bit less than that, probably about 2 volts less (the decoder)... so now you are getting about HO scale voltage (13v) on a G scale loco.

To get 24v DCC on the rails, your booster would need 26-27 volts DC input. At that point, you still would be getting maybe 21-22 volts to the motor.

There are always voltage drops from the power supply to the booster output, and the decoder input to the motor output, caused by the transistors making DCC and the decoder motor control.

Greg


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## ansleyl (Dec 27, 2007)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I use the 5amp tam valley, works well, yes your trains will run faster, the speed vs voltage is nonlinear, all the speed is in the last few volts. If you are feeding your booster with 18v DC, then you are getting probably 15v DCC on the rails, and then the motor is getting a bit less than that, probably about 2 volts less (the decoder)... so now you are getting about HO scale voltage (13v) on a G scale loco.
> 
> To get 24v DCC on the rails, your booster would need 26-27 volts DC input. At that point, you still would be getting maybe 21-22 volts to the motor.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply!
I've been considering a new ESU DCC sytem, either one looks very nice. However, I decided to order an NCE Mini panel this week, and a 2nd CAB, got a great deal on a Procab on eBay so I guess I'm sticking with NCE for now. I also have other boosters, old MRCs, boxed up for a while. They worked fine when I last used them like 12 years ago. I have another one I bought from someone (another MRC) with a modified power supply, I haven't tried it yet, but saw it in use from the guy I purchased from, he had a wonderful DCC setup with lots of powered routes and switches setup using Lenz LS150 accesory/switch machine controllers. I purchased his entire collection, just haven't tinkered with it yet. I ordered the tam valley, it's on the way, I really want to try it and hard to beat for $60, I'm a tinkerer so I'll just put in a box and I have several 6 Amp 24V power supplies lying around. I've been really ramping up my DCC use lately, installing new decoders, and just purchased a few more locos with DCC. I plan to program the mini-panel for some automatic operation of 2-3 DCC trains on a loop, not hard to so with a reed switch, a few push buttons, and switches for options. Looking forward to this. Then when I take my modular layout to the train show in June I cran run 2 DCC trains on the outer loop of track automatically. On the inside loop I run 3 DC trains with a siding via an Auto Control board using LGB EPL circuits. I've been busy working on a lot of new train stuff, after not working on much the last several years. Now I just need to get my garage and out bulding cleaned out so I can build the new G scale and O scale layouts I've designed!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

To get 24 volts to the rail I went for the Zimo system. I had the MX1 Zimo of old and that had 25 volts DCC to the track. Only drawback as due to its age it only had 20 function keys. SO now I have the Zimo MX10 which has 28 functions plus forward and reverse and a colored touch display. Expensive , yes but well worth the price to me.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I went Zimo also... it's all Dan's fault!

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Zimo is more $$ but many more features than most systems. I like the fact that there are 2 separate outputs and since I do repairs and run outdoor trains, my bench is the programming output of 8 amps and the outdoor track is the non-programming track. I can never have a accidental programming issue!!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I also like the fact that it is in a continual state of improvement and additional features. Other systems seem to only have an occasional bug fix or very few updates.

Greg


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## ansleyl (Dec 27, 2007)

I bought a Tam Valley Depot 5 Amp booster, came yesterday. Very tiny, I have a board where I mounted my NCE Mini panel, and switches and buttons to control my prograns I wrote for Auto Controlling my trains. So I mounted my Procab panel ant the booster to the board too, came out nice. I have a 6A 24v power brick is used that w/booster. Ran Dash-9 and LGB Mikado. Probably hit the limit around 20 on Mikado and 16(28 steps) on Dash 9, it heats up but booster handled it. I ran the Mikado by itself, runs so much better now! I have 2 SD45S but don't think 5 amps is enough. If I can I'll attach a photo of my DCC board 
Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mount the board so there is an air gap underneath it to keep it cooler.


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## ansleyl (Dec 27, 2007)

I meant to post the photo that showed the booster more closely....
Ted


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## ansleyl (Dec 27, 2007)

One other question, donI need to ground the booster board to the Powecab board? If so, I couldn't figure out where to attach the ground on the Powecab.
Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

no, don't do that... grounding is not normally needed, multiple command stations and/or boosters separated by a significant distance is what can call for grounding between units.

Greg


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## ansleyl (Dec 27, 2007)

Greg Elmassian said:


> no, don't do that... grounding is not normally needed, multiple command stations and/or boosters separated by a significant distance is what can call for grounding between units.
> 
> Greg


I didn't, and I didn't before when I used my Bachmann booster. However, I plan on building a layout with 3-4 districts each with a booster, but all indoors with the total area less than 30 x 14 feet. What about then as I may have 4 boosters then.?

Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

you probably want to ground the boosters together... and ground is really the wrong term, because you don't want them connected to ground, just a common between them.

Greg


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## ansleyl (Dec 27, 2007)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Mount the board so there is an air gap underneath it to keep it cooler.


It's not obvious but all the PCBs on my board have plastic spacers underneath them, with about a 1/8" air gap. I also recently bought some stackable metal open-air cases to hold an Aruduino, Raspberry PI, and more if I need. I'm building a DCC++EX system right now, and I'm also building my own adjustable booster, up to 10A, just ordered two PCBs. We'll see how that all works out. I'm in a big DCC experimental state right now. 

Ted


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## gerard143 (10 mo ago)

Dan Pierce said:


> Zimo is more $$ but many more features than most systems. I like the fact that there are 2 separate outputs and since I do repairs and run outdoor trains, my bench is the programming output of 8 amps and the outdoor track is the non-programming track. I can never have a accidental programming issue!!!


So what can zimo do that ESU cant? I am researching all the options including railpro. Trying to decide which route to take for the long haul. Just getting into this.


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