# LGB MTS III w/Electric Switches Help



## xclnce (Dec 13, 2014)

Morning all, new to the forum and to the hobby.

I'm having a couple challenges and hope you all can help. 

I've just hooked up my LGB MTS III 55006p MTS with 55016p remote and I'm trying to get the LGB electric switches 12050 and 12150 to operate. 

I have the switches connected to the 51750 Control Box and power run from the transformer. The problem is as soon as the switch is thrown the MTS unit thinks there's a short and shuts down (red LED starts blinking) and I've got to hit the restart button. 

I thought it might be caused because I had the same power running from the MTS to the 51750, so I used another transformer and ran 'fresh' power right to the 51750. That allows all three switches to operate perfectly but the MTS problem still exists. As soon as I throw the switch it forces me to restart the MTS box. 

Please help! I'm hoping it's something simple to fix. FYSA - My setup is simple less the 10 yds of track, currently on clean hardwood. 

Thanks in advance!


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Welcome to the hobby and to the forum.

First thing I would do is operate the switches manually - just push the movable rail of the switch to the opposite position and then back again without any power going to the switch drive but have the MTS system connected to the switch.

If the MTS still shuts down then there is a momentary short when the switch operates, if te MTS system does not shut down the problem may be related to the powering of the MTS and the switches.

Which transformer are you using to eun the MTS system?
And which transformer to power the switches?
The switches take a fair bit of current when they operate so with a "weak" transformer that can't supply the current the transformer voltage will drop.

Unless someone has encountered this exact problem before, you need to go step-by-step to home in on the problem.

Knut


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Is it one LGB switch or all 3 causing the problem?
Are the LGB switches controlling a siding? A drawing of the layput could help us.


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## xclnce (Dec 13, 2014)

*MTS III Problem Solved 51750*

Dan and KRS --

Thank you both for the suggestions. I received a call from LGB VP Sunday evening and he too was perplexed. 

We did find a solution, but i want to answer your questions below before providing the answer... just in case anybody encounters this issue in the future. 

1) All three switches (didn't matter which one) would trip the MTS when I would push the rocker on the 51750. 
2) Moving the switch manually did not cause the problem.
3) I ran power for the 51750 initially from the Marlan transformer that also powered the MTS III and it caused the issue. So, I thought of that potentially being a problem drawing power so I used a second LGB transformer I had laying around to power the 51750 still encountered the same issue. 

Problem solution:
Believe it or not the LGB rep asked where they were plugged in (as did you). When I explained I tried having it plugged off the same transformer and then a seperate transformer he was stumped. Then he suggested trying a different outlet. 

Even though I'm using a 20amp circuit breaker on the outlet run to the set it WORKED! The 51750 with switches must draw just enough power to make the MTS III system think there's a short or draw in the line in which case it requires a reset but does not completely shut down. 

When i put the 51750 in a different power outlet with the seperate transformer and ran the MTS from a second power outlet seperate transformer it has worked perfectly. 

So problem resolved:

Requires two seperate transformers (1 for switches and 1 for trains) and a seperate power outlet for each (not in same junction box). 

Thanks for all your help again.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback.

Can't find a "Marlan" transformer, did you mean Marklin?

If so what model number?
That's on the nameplate of the transformer.

And what make and model is the other transformer you are using?

I can see the problem happening with both the MTS system and the switches powered by the same transformer, especially a toy train one like the Marklin (that's why I want the model number), but the problem should never happen if you use two transformers even if they are plugged into the same 115 AC outlet.
The fact that it does happen points to a problem with either the transformer or the outlet wiring itself which needs to be corrected.

Knut


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Does the outlet have a GFCI? If so, then this unit could be causing the reaction.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Hello xclnce:

The LGB 51750 is not suitable for use with an MTS/DCC system. By connecting it to a separate transformer, you have separated it completely from the MTS system, hence it works. If you wish to operate the switches remotely using your MTS system, you need to connect the switches to a digital switch decoder instead or the LGB51750. 

Mohammed

http://www.allaboutlgb.com
http://www.massothusa.com


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> Does the outlet have a GFCI? If so, then this unit could be causing the reaction.


Crossed my mind as well but I would think that the OP would have mentioned that he had to reset the GFCI (or at least that he had to push a button on the outlet to power it up again)


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

mbendebba said:


> Hello xclnce:
> 
> The LGB 51750 is not suitable for use with an MTS/DCC system. By connecting it to a separate transformer, you have separated it completely from the MTS system, hence it works. If you wish to operate the switches remotely using your MTS system, you need to connect the switches to a digital switch decoder instead or the LGB51750.
> 
> ...


Mohammed,
Please read the whole thread - you're confusing the issue.
The switches are operated directly via a transformer and the 51750 not via MTS.
And this arrangement only works if each of the two transformers, the one powering the MTS and the one powering the 51750 are plugged into DIFFERENT outlets, ie not even into the two different outlets of a duplex receptacle but two physically separate outlets. At least that is my understanding.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Mohammed, your typo is confusing to newcomers.
you need to connect the switches to a digital switch decoder instead or the LGB51750.
Replace or with of OF


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## xclnce (Dec 13, 2014)

Dan Pierce said:


> Does the outlet have a GFCI? If so, then this unit could be causing the reaction.


Nope, no GFCI. However it is run to a wall switch, so not sure what else might be on that existing circuit pulling power.


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## xclnce (Dec 13, 2014)

Dan Pierce said:


> Does the outlet have a GFCI? If so, then this unit could be causing the reaction.


Dan,

Nope no GFCI. There is a wall switch connected. So, there could be additional draws on that circuit that I'm unaware of. (Just moved into the house in August).

Cheers.


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## xclnce (Dec 13, 2014)

mbendebba said:


> Hello xclnce:
> 
> The LGB 51750 is not suitable for use with an MTS/DCC system. By connecting it to a separate transformer, you have separated it completely from the MTS system, hence it works. If you wish to operate the switches remotely using your MTS system, you need to connect the switches to a digital switch decoder instead or the LGB51750.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the heads up. I being a newbie didn't realize that when I ordered the 51750 and got it all connected. I will order the digital decoder switch to operate in the next few months. Of course, the downside is I will have to also pick up a new remote. My understanding from research is the LGB Loco remote I have 55016 will not support the switches (I will need the Universal Remote 55015 to control everything). 

Is that correct?


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## xclnce (Dec 13, 2014)

krs said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> Can't find a "Marlan" transformer, did you mean Marklin?
> 
> ...


KRS - sorry for the typo -- yes, the MTS is running on Marklin 60065 and my 51750 is running on LGB 50171


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

xclnce said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I being a newbie didn't realize that when I ordered the 51750 and got it all connected. I will order the digital decoder switch to operate in the next few months. Of course, the downside is I will have to also pick up a new remote. My understanding from research is the LGB Loco remote I have 55016 will not support the switches (I will need the Universal Remote 55015 to control everything).
> 
> Is that correct?


Yes, that is correct. if you really want to get fancy, you would get a Massoth Navigator and a Massoth 4-channel switch decoder.

Mohammed
http://www.massothusa.com


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

Unless you really want to control your switches with the remote, I would stay with the 51750 and manual control. Just personal preference and depends on the size of you layout and location of your switches. 

Not sure on either remote controlling the switch decoder. 

Before you order an LGB switch decoder or 55015, I would look at the Massoth or PIKO switch decoders and Navigators. They both will work with the LGB MTS III 55006P central station. Both navigators have more features, can control switches, and might be comparable in price compared to features.
Steve


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If you get the Navigator, you will no longer be restricted to 14 speed steps, you can use 28 steps. Other features may be available like long addressing (I use the engine 4 digit numbers for my addresses with my non MTS system).


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

xclnce said:


> yes, the MTS is running on Marklin 60065 and my 51750 is running on LGB 50171


The Marklin 60065 is a switched-mode power supply providing 19 volt DC / 50 watts.
It would have plenty of power to drive both the MTSIII and the switches however with the LGB 51750 you need AC as the input, not DC which is what the Marklin supply provides.
That's why your original set up did not work.
The LGB 50171 is an AC transformer providing 20 volts AC at 28 VAs so that is fine.

Still doesn't make sense that you have to connect the 120 volt side of each power supply/transformer to a different outlet - are you bridging any terminals at all between the two units - the Marklin 60065 and the LGB 50171?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

19 volts at 50 watts gives only 2.5 amps, the MTS system is rated at 5 amps and to get that amount of current one would need a heftier unit. I would go with 24 volts and at least 5 amps to supply any MTS central station to get max output.


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