# A4s Going on 2 Year Loan for "Mallard 75"



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

I know this is 1:1, but thought some of you would appreciate the news anyway. Last evening I got my copy of the May/June BRMNA Journal (BRMNA = British Railway Modellers of North America). The editor's column, The Signal Box, had information that the A4 60010, Dominion of Canada, at Exporail, Montreal and the A4 60008, Dwight D. Eisenhower, at the Railroad Museum, Green Bay, Wisconsin, will be transported back to the National Railway Museum, York, England for full cosmetic restoration to their original condition in 1937/1938 as part of the "Mallard 75" celebration. They will remain at the national museum in York for two years. Mallard 75 is a celebration of the Mallard's unbeaten speed record for steam locomotives of 126 mph, set in 1938.

I'm sure visitors to the museum will enjoy the sight of three LNER A4 class locomotives displayed together.

Best,
David Meashey


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm sure visitors to the museum will enjoy the sight of three LNER A4 class locomotives displayed together 
Dave, 

I'll bet all SIX of the A4s will be at NRM. When Mallard was rebuilt, they lined up Bittern (as Silver Fox, in silver paint) plus Mallard in blue and 60007 Sir Nigel Gresley in green. Great photo-op. #9 (Union of South Africa) is apparently almost rebuilt and ready, and Sir Nigel is running on NYMR.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"I'll bet all SIX of the A4s will be at NRM."































Huzzah!
David Meashey


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

For those not in the know, this is an A4. Aster made a model years ago, and now The Gauge 1 Model Company ( http://www.g1m.co.uk/ ) are importing a new model.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Here is a link: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:N...n_York.jpg
to what I think is more the 'correct' colour blue! 
Regards 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Kopint (Apr 30, 2008)

Another A4 will be on the market in October this year. The homepage is in German only. It says, that this A4 will have functional three Cylinder engine, axlepump, ceramic burner etc. etc.
http://www.modellbahnen-aus-metall....ive-steam/


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Kopint, 
Interesting! 
I see that it is from Bowande, the 'evil' twin to Accucraft who make the Gauge 1 Model Company locos. 
Is this 'another' case of stolen plans again, like the 4MT, I wonder. 
The thot plickens. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Kopint (Apr 30, 2008)

Evil twin ?? stolen plans ?? What are you talking about ? From my sight of view it is just another player on the market. But if you have more detailed information please let me know.
best regards


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Another A4 will be on the market in October this year. 
I think it is the same one - Gauge 1 get their stuff made in China, and as you point out, this one is being made by WuHu / Bowande. WuHu made the 2-6-4 tank for them, but Accucraft made their Brittania loco.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Pete, 
I do not believe that the A4's are the same. 
The G1MRC is alcohol, whilst the Bowande/Wuhu is gas. 
The story that went around, and has been covered here in this Forum was something like .... 
PLEASE NOTE THAT I APOLOGISE IF I HAVE MY FACTS INCORRECT AND DO NOT SUGGEST THAT THERE IS ANY WRONG DOING BY ANYONE. 
The G1MRC originally had Accucraft draw up plans for a gas fired 4MT tank loco. 
They then realised that the UK market wanted alcohol, so everything was re-worked by Accucraft and production started. 
It is then suggested that an employee left and took with him the original 'gas' plans and went over to Bowande/Wuhu, who then made their 'similar' version. 
There were talks of law suits and legal action, but I have never seen any more details at this point. 
So, my suggestion was, is it just a co-incidence that both G1MRC and Bowande/Wuhu happen to be making identical models AGAIN!!! 
I am sure that as Kopint suggests, it's just another player on the market, and what is to stop someone from making a model of their choice. 
I notice that there is also two new electric versions advertised in the G1MRA Newsletter from Golden Age and from Loveless. 
Could they also be part of the 'plot'? 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The story that went around 
David, 

I hadn't paid a lot of attention to the stories. I heard there was talk of WuHu stealing some designs when their 0-4-0 came out as it is just like the Ruby 5. 
I did notice the Loveless models. Strange coincidence - maybe everyone is rushing to get a model out when NRM starts their Mallard 75 event!


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

The Ruby 5 was simply a re-styled Ruby dressed up as a Porter. Although the WuHu porter shared engineering concepts (like piston valve reversing and gas firing with a poker burner that are hardly unique to the Ruby), it is a completely different animal, designed from the ground up to be a Porter. 

It looks like the same is true for the two A4 versions. It's hard to tell much about the G1M model from just one photo and no spec sheet on their website, but it appears to be little more than the Accucraft UK Flying Scotsman with its simplified 2-cylinder mechanism, tucked under a new A4 body. It is clearly still a work in progress too, note the exposed cylinders, for example. The WuHu A4, on the other hand, looks like a finished product in the photos. The specs seem to indicate (perhaps one of our German-speaking friends can confirm) that it is a true three-cylinder model, and from the photos it looks like it has working Gresley conjugated motion for the inside cylinder's valve gear. Some other interesting features are screw reverse, what appears to be a whistle valve, and the fuel and water lines routed under the cab floor instead of filling up the space between the cab and tender. In fact, from the backhead picture, it looks like it actually has a locomotive-type boiler with a firebox, instead of the typical single-flue and poker burner arrangement. It doesn't appear to have working cylinder cocks though, which the G1M model does have.


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## Kopint (Apr 30, 2008)

here is the specification for the Bowande A4 translated from German.
1. 3 working cylinders 
2. Silver soldered copper boiler with 4 tubes
3. Ceramic burner
4. Gas fired 
5. Fully functioning Walschaerts valve gear 
6. Slide valves 
7. Sprung axles locomotive and tender 
8. Sprung buffers 
9. Axle pump and hand pump 
10. Etched brass boiler casing, cab and tender 
11. Lubricator 
12. Dummy cylinder drain cocks
13. Stainless steel frames, motion and wheels 
14. Functional / workable Whistle
15. Turbo & Worm forwards and backwards fitting

best regards kopint


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Turbo & Worm forwards and backwards fitting 
I guess that would be a 'screw reverser'.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Kopint on 16 Jun 2012 12:35 PM 
Another A4 will be on the market in October this year. The homepage is in German only. It says, that this A4 will have functional three Cylinder engine, axlepump, ceramic burner etc. etc.
http://www.modellbahnen-aus-metall....ive-steam/


This is pretty fascinating. The german MAM site is clearly showing WuHu locos - the 2-6-4 and Jubilee are also shown. Incidentally, you can full-screen the photos on the website and they are gorgeous! As David says, they seem to be putting the pipes under the footplate. A welcome development!


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Pete, 
Actually, it was Richard! 
Alcohol locos have had their 'pipes under the footplate', well, for ever!!! 
I think that the difference is in boiler and burner design. 
The 'gas' ceramic type burners that I have seen really duplicate the 'alcohol' style burner with the fire going UP (if you see what I mean), so the boiler design can be similar, or identical, to the alcohol one. 
The centre flue with a poker burner is just an easier boiler to make. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Nieuport 16 (Jun 19, 2012)

As to this A4 being a copy of the Aster A4, I 'd professionally say "Unquestionably so." Burner designs are no more than minutia. The engineering costs of doing models (all models) is a rather high percentage of tooling costs and Chinese manufacturers are not exactly known for their honorable intentions. I see this one is something less of a scale model (many bulky details) than the Aster A4 of almost 30 years ago. Pity, as the Aster A3 of 2003 was heading towards far more of a true scale model, tapered side rods and the like. To get things "right" is considerably more expensive than not, but that is what it does take. 

I have designed and developed a number of commercially successful and well known HO locomotives. So far the "Knock-off" count off of my work is up to five. All of those were done in China and I am powerless to stop that. Had it been the case in the U.S., I'd be resultingly comfortably retired. The U.S. Government does not do too good of a job of protecting patents and copyrights as far as China is concerned.


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## 4MT (Feb 28, 2011)

I can categorically say the G1MRCo A4 and the Bowande A4 are not the same locomotive. The G1M model has been designed in the UK by a very well known Gauge 1 designer to be an excellent running model much like the Britannia before it. The pre production engineering sample shown in the photo is not a finished example which has gone through painstaking effort to make it visually correct. The Bowande A4 has also been marketed by Kingscale and while it is a nice looking loco I cannot vouch for the quality of the build or reliability of the design. As has been mentioned before the Chinese business ethics do not resemble our own and therefore I would be unsurprised to find elements of G1MRCo design in this loco as has been the case with the Standard 4 Tank and the LMS 8F. Personally I cannot speak highly enough of the G1MRCo products and would have no hesitation reccommending the finished loco to anyone! 

Regards to all 

Stuart


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I can tell you that the G1 A4 is NOT produced my WUHU.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Some of you may be aware of the failed attempts to purchase either of the 'on loan' A4's currently in the UK, as reported here.
http://tinyurl.com/qg4l2sr
So, further to that, did any of you read the BBC report yesterday that said:-
"The NRM announced today that they had reached an agreement with EXPORAIL of Montreal, Canada to make a trade of locomotives.
This trade will see the Gresley class A4 "Dominion of Canada", that had been brought over to the UK for the 75th anniversary event of Mallard becoming the world's fastest steam locomotive, stay at the museum in York, and will see the British built Chinese 4-8-4 KF class on it's way to Canada in exchange.
The Museum said that they were very happy that the arrangement was worked out, and that they intend to return Dominion of Canada to steam as number 2509 Silver LInk in it's original silver/grey livery.
No expected completion date was given, but it is expected to take a few years."
I kind of wondered if it would ever get back to Canada!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

DAVID!!!!

Go take your medication!!!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> read the BBC report yesterday


 And yesterday was what date ??


> the British built Chinese 4-8-4 KF


 The WHAT ??

Aha. NRM does have such a beast.
"The *Class KF* (聯盟型, 'Confederation class', transliterated to ㄎ ㄈ 1) was a 4-8-4 mainline passenger steam locomotive type built in the UK by the Vulcan Foundry for the railways of China between 1935 and 1936."

Never heard of that one, and I don't recall seeing it when I was at the NRM.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

The two ex-pat A4's are still in York, England. They will be returning after EASTER 2014.
I am sure yesterdays date had a great deal to do with the exchange story

The Govt. of China 4-8-4 KF7 No. 607 is there, I saw it last October and I also saw Dwight D. E and Dom. of Canada. In fact I made a special effort to see the two A4 ex pats.

Pete: Sometimes, for varying reasons, locos are removed from the main hall so maybe when you visited it was in hiding, so as to speak.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Dr Rivet said:


> DAVID!!!!
> 
> Go take your medication!!!


Sorry Jim,
Too busy building PRR cars right now to find time for my pills!
I had to try something for my annual April 1st attempt at humour.
Oh well, maybe I'll give up.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

David,

I got a good chuckle out of the "trade". 

Maybe those deficient in humour grey matter might have been better prepared if it came after page 3 of the Sun


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

It will be interesting to see these models. The Aster A4s look dated compared to newer models and some of the detailing is pretty crude . The way the 'skirts' attach on Mallard for example irritates me every time I look at it  

Another project..........


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