# Kadee New Generation Couplers



## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

Kadee has just announced a new type of G scale couplers in their October newsletter. There are/will be 5 different types numbered 900-904 for various configurations for both body and wheel mounting.
You may wish to have a look.

http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/newprod.htm

I do not have any G scale rolling stock with Kadee couplers, so I am anything but an expert, but would like to read of anyone else's interpretation of what these will be like, based on their present use of Kadees. 

Kadee does not mention what 'scale' size they are, 1:29-1:20.5... but do mention they will be forthcoming with a 1:32 size in the future.

Thanks
Gary


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

They are the same size as the "G-scale" couplers, so suitable for 1:24 - 1:20.3 in terms of overall scale appearance. You can put them on your 1:29 stuff, too, but they'll be oversized. From what I've heard, they work very well with Kadee's current couplers as well as Accucraft's 1:20 coupler and Bachmann's coupler provided it's mounted in the high position. Glad to see a bit more realism to their couplers. I don't know how compatible they'd be with Accucraft's "1:29" coupler. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I will publish pictures this weekend, I have the 830 type and the 789 type. I will also test them with the AML 1:29 coupler, but I can tell you that they look much better, more realistic casting, the knuckle hinges at a more prototypical place the knuckle spring is now hidden! 

Also the shank of the coupler is thicker and stronger (although I have never found that to be a weak point). 

For me, a very important improvement is that the inside of the knuckle face is no longer bowed or convex, which should help keeping couplers from overriding in extreme cases (very long trains, or sharp grade transitions). 

I hope to have a youtube also by the weekend. 

Regards, Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

In using the current Kadee couplers, the one thing I like more than anything is the ease of coupling. While all the other couplers require a pretty good hit between both cars to cause the couplers to close and lock, the current Kadees can be coupled without even making a complete hit of the knuckles. I can only hope these new couplers have the same ease of coupling. Looks are great, but if operation is sacraficed, then I'll pass on these. 

Randy


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Same here Randy. I like the look of the new Kadees but would never trade the ultra smooth coupling I get with the present couplers just for a little better looks.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, _something _needs to be done on my railroad as the Bachmann and Accucraft couplers I am currently using go together about as well as Felix and Oscar! I never went with Kadees because of their looks. If this has changed then it might be time to reconsider.....


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07 Oct 2009 07:26 AM 
I will publish pictures this weekend, I have the 830 type and the 789 type. .....

Regards, Greg 
Aren't those the OLD couplers? The new ones are 900 series I thought.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Randy Richard, I think you will be pleased with the new couplers, based on what i saw they have been using them in HO for years and just upsized them for G


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike, there will be new versions of the G scale coupler, I referenced the models to give you the "style" of the coupler.

Ignoring the draft gear boxes, there are basically 4 couplers made: the "830" style, and the "short shank" style that comes in zero, medium, and large offset.

Here is the picture of the new style zero offset "short shank" style, from their web site: (the last picture is a 789 unit, coupler and draft gear)


















Regards, Greg


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

So will draft boxes be made available with these or do you have to purchase those seperatly.

Forgive my ignorance but up until know I never ran knuckle couplers, just hook and loop. 

I'd like to convert my stock to something more prototypical but just as durable. Still don't know if Kadee is the way to go...but I'm looking.


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

Kadee has indicated these will be packaged in the future with the draft boxes etc. This is just the first batches that are individual. They say the old style are completely compatible with the new style....which is good news.

Gary


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I can confirm what Gary said, I received my couplers from Sam Clarke of Kadee, and he told me the same. I don't have prices yet. I have test mated the couplers old and new style, no problem at all. 

Again, will torture test this weekend on very long trains with steep grades. Will report back. 

Regards, Greg


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## Trainwreckfilms (Aug 19, 2009)

As Greg stated I will do a torture test my self. I will be receiving mine in a few days. Ill be testing them on a 10-15% grade with 24 cars. I will try to do a test to see how much it will weigh too... Sam was super cool and told me that he will be matching the couplers with the draft gear boxes for a few dollars more. I will be posting a video on my site when I get it all done! Also will be showing off my new SD70MAC from Gold Coast Station with the new couplers.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By Trainwreckfilms on 08 Oct 2009 01:18 AM 
As Greg stated I will do a torture test my self. I will be receiving mine in a few days. Ill be testing them on a 10-15% grade with 24 cars. I will try to do a test to see how much it will weigh too... Sam was super cool and told me that he will be matching the couplers with the draft gear boxes for a few dollars more. I will be posting a video on my site when I get it all done! Also will be showing off my new SD70MAC from Gold Coast Station with the new couplers. 
24 cars on a 15% grade? Ouch! You have some kind of anti-gravity ballast under your track or something?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think there is an error in one of those numbers. I don't know of any G scale loco that can do that, only an LGB rack loco will climb a grade like that, never seen 24 cars on one! 

Maybe he meant 1.0 - 1.5%... 15% would be almost 1 foot up in 7 feet! 

Regards, Greg


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Question, do these new couplers have the metal knuckles like the 820 series come thru with these days ?? My last couple
of orders of 820s that I've gotten have metal knuckles including the 10 sets of 820s I got today... Haven't bought any 
830s lately so I don't know if the metal knuckles R now used there too... Have to think this new coupler is more about 
aesthetics than any real improvement in the coupler itself... Been using Kadees for well over 50 years, including somewhere 
between 450-500 of the 820 series in the last 18 years or so, an I've only ever broken 1, an I pull heavy trains all the time...
Paul R...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No all plastic. I know about the #1 scale having metal knuckles. 

The operational improvements as far as I can tell: 

1. elimination of crown in back of knuckle face, helps prevent overriding, especially on looser mounts and/or long cars on sharp grade transitions. Long trains make this happen more fequently. 
2. Internal spring on knuckle should reduce any one having rust problems. 
3. The shape of the "loop" on the end of the 830 coupler seems to me to center the spring better, I'm expecting more consistent spring forces on the return to center, and delayed uncoupling positions. 
4. I think the newer design should be a bit more resistant to dirt in the moving part of the knuckle assembly, this is speculation based on where I "see" dirt or grit could enter. 

So, looks like a lot of positives to me. I have never had a Kadee coupler fail. I have snapped a post off a draft gear box when ramming an inanimate object though! ha ha! 

Regards, Greg


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been waiting to get my hands on some of the new 820 metal couplers. Tired of replacing them because they split where the pin is pressed in.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe that is why they are on the #1 scale... There seems to be less "meat" around the pin. I have a couple of hundred 830's and 831's, never had a coupler failure or split. 

Regards, Greg


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Splitting around the pin on an 820 ?? thats a new one on me, never had that happen before, did break a knuckle on one 
once, but it was further out the knuckle, nowhere near the pin... Wonder if its a type of service or conditions related 
problem ?? FWIW, I heard that the metal knuckle was done to correct a heat related failure in the southern latitudes, 
don't know how much truth there is in that though... I have several sets of the metal ones in service now, and they 
work just about as well as the plastic ones did with one posible exception, they don't seem to couple quite as easily 
as the plastic ones do, not enough experience yet to be sure of that though... 
Paul R...


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

if you never had a coupler break it might well be because the consists you pull are shorter than Mr. Runge's. Couplers break. It happens. I see it nearly every time I bother to put a serious load behind my locomotive. Its not that big a deal. But it does happen. 

Seems like the newer version is an improvement, which is welcome.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't think you were directing your reply to me John, but sounds like breakages in the #1 couplers and the whole thread is about the new G scale design. 

I have never seen a G scale one break, but I have heard of it. I run very long trains up very steep grades. 45 cars up a 3.5% grade is pretty nasty. 

Jeff, are you running more than this? (this is not a competition, but it's nice to see what each person's definition of long trains, steep grades are). 

John, are you running 820's or #1 scale? If it happens nearly every time as you state (and I am not in the least disputing you), where are the failures? 

I know Kadee reads this site, so the information you present will most likely benefit everyone. 

Regards, Greg


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 820's are #1 gauge couplers, used mostly on 1:32 . As to the number of cars, 20 to 40 is typical, but sometimes they end up as part of something much larger, they have been part of 60 plus car consists, grades are slight 1% or so.. Some of these have been on cars for 10 to 12 years and have over 5,000 scale miles on them ( I know this because I have a speedometer car and when I replaced the battery a few rears ago it was well over 4,000 and it does not see as much track time as most of my other cars) I have worn out the side frames on the trucks on some, and the flanges right off the plastic wheels, which is why I run all metal wheels. 
I was just happy to hear Kadee made the part that cracks out of metal now, instead of plastic.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Jeff, I thought my previous posts did show that I not only know the 820's are #1, but trying to clarify that the report of split couplers was apparently the #1's not the new "G" ones... 

But if it was not clear, I guess it is now. ;-) 

I would submit that my consists are worse than your normal ones, since my grade is 3.5% for about 40 feet, but this is NOT a competition, just a response to John that maybe you are working your couplers harder than me. 

With all the mileage you have, I think that is the major factor. 

I will be interested to hear how John has a problem that occurs "nearly every time" on a serious load. 

Not that I am waving a "Kadee" flag, but they have performed much better for me than Aristo or USAT couplers. 

Regards, Greg


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, In your previous post you said "John, are you running 820's or #1 scale?" that is why I started my post with that, I was really just clarifying. 
I was not complaining, just saying I was happy about the "improvement" they made, I think hehe I agree on the milage which is why I mentioned it. 
I doubt I would get enough traction with a live steamer to pull even 20 cars up a 3.5% grade !! maybe with a good running start.. hehe 
Jeff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gotcha Jeff, thanks! 

Jeff when you have had problems, was it the same, plastic splitting where the "uncoupler rod" enters the knuckle? 

Just curious. 

Regards, Greg


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok I'll do my best to describe what cracks. The section that moves when you couple and uncouple, cracks where the curved metal tail is pressed in. (I think that is what you are describing Greg, so yes that the location) After it cracks it no longer stays coupled reliably. It does not close completely and a close look shows a small crack running vertically . I'll look around to see if I have one I can take a picture of. ( I usually throw them away) 
Jeff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very good Jeff, and I think you might send any pix to Kadee. My impression is that they want to correct problems, not ignore them or deny them. 

I appreciate the info. There are not a lot of people really stressing things, so your information and experience is valuable. 

Regards, Greg


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

A serious load is 40-75 cars for me. because thats what I have. For others that I know, its closer to 100. The length of the train is more dependant on your pocket book than on the power of the locomotive. Its good to have friends like Jeff with several dozens cars apiece. Then you can pull 150 cars. I have a solid replacement coupler that goes on the tender. It doesnt open and doesn't break. Seems to be the best solution, though I don't know where to get one now. (mine's from Aster, I bet accucraft's would be cheaper and work just fine.) 
I have both G and #1 couplers. Both will break or fail when load on them heavy enough. You have to be very gentle in starting a long train. Interestingly, the non working accucraft #1 scale couplers never fail, though they are a real pain to couple. Another problem with all couplers except aristocraft is that they all move under load. Even body mounted Kadees. So my experience is that after a year or two some kadees are a bit cranky, and need to be at the back of the consist so that they will not let go under load. Im pretty sure its because they are a bit dirty/worn and dont swing or close well. But the way to fix that is to replace them, which to me means they are broken. Changing the springs does not help. 

Jeff - I have sawed off the silly magnetic hose on some of the kadees I have. I dont care to switch them, and I thought that in a accident the faux break hose maybe the culprit that cracks the coupler. Naturally, since I have done that, I havent had an derailment with those cars. So I don't know if that will help yet. If you want to come to Stapletons, I am going next week. We can bring all the cars and break a few couplers for fun.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

John, I have to be in NJ for a wedding so I can not make it to Stapletons. One of these days I'll make it back up there.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have Kadees on my E8's and all other locos, except for an AML K4 and an AML 0-6-0, which have the stock, operating metal couplers. 

I have never broken a G scale coupler, and have never changed a Kadee out. I don't leave them out in the moisture though, and I have seen the uncoupling pins rust. 

I do have Kadee 830's on all rolling freight stock, and I pull out the slack on the train prototypically, so maybe that's my secret! 

Regards, Greg


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