# late 19th century 3' gauge box cars



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm modeling standard gauge in HO on this particular project, but I figure this is the best place to look for people who know the answer to this particular question.

My railroad (thee Danville & Western) was originally built as 3' gauge in the 1880's and '90's, and converted to standard gauge right after the turn of the century. I have part of the ICC valuation from 1916, which lists 10 non-revenue cars (camp cars, cabooses, and tool cars) all of which were box car type, 34' long. I'm wondering if these could have been old narrow gauge cars with standard gauge trucks.


I have plenty of drawings of standard gauge wooden box cars from that era, and it's easy enough to get information on early Colorado narrow gauge cars. I'm curious to know what cars built for a line in southern Virginia would have looked like, what the dimensions may have been, and what may have happened to them. Was it common practice to re-gauge a car when the line was rebuilt, or would they have been sold? Scrapped? They would have been 10-15 years old at the time - 1/2 to 2/3 of their likely useful life at most.


Thanks, guys.
Ken


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't speak specifically as to the Danville & Western but generally 34 to 36 feet was a respectable length for a box car of the 1880's - 90's. It has been common practice to use old box cars & flats as a basis for work equipment. The 1888 Cyclopedia shows many cars of that length and also even shorter. There were also quite a number that couldn't have been more than 26 feet or so length. Early new offerings showed cars with very little difference in over all measurements between standard and 3 foot gauge and this equipment was indeed often regauged during the period. I would bet that's what the D&W did unless they were fortunate enough to find some used standard gauge cars cheap. 

Railroads well into the mid 1900's were noted for being very reluctant to modernize with new equipment until forced to. I remember wandering around rail yards and finding a lot of equipment dating from early in the century even during the 1950's although mostly in MOW or storage duty. I sat down on a rail on a storage track one time about 1958 and noted the rail had been produced in 1883!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Lengths of 34' - 36' would have been very uncommon for 3' gauge equipment built c. 1890. For that matter, even stuff built in the 1920s and 1930s seldom exceeded 30'. The D&RGW's 40' refrigerator cars are probably the most notable exception. Equipment built in the 1880s would probably have been on the order of 7' wide and between 25' and 30' long, depending on the type of car. 

In terms of standard-gauging the equipment, part of the advantage of standard-gauging the line was to allow for increased capacity cars (to say nothing of interchanging with other railroads). It's unlikely they would have just re-trucked the narrow gauge cars, as they'd still be of lower capacity and not terribly beneficial in terms of revenue-generating. The expense building a freight car was in the metal hardware, which could easily be removed either by unbolting it, or as was common, torching the cars and collecting the metal bits from the ashes. They'd then be able to re-use that on newer, higher-capacity standard gauge cars that met the government's interchange standards, which it's highly likely the narrow gauge cars did not. 

Later, 

K


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Whoops! You're right Kevin. I was focused on the standard gauge cars and neglected to differentiate them clearly from 3 foot gauge when referring to 34-36 foot cars as to length. My reference to similar measurements of narrow gauge and standard gauge equipment as offered in several early catalogs preceded the later cars. My apologies for not explaining better.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Ken; 

You probably already know this. The nickname for the Danville & Western was the "Dick & Willie." Got that from Kenny Kirkman, editor of the Turntable Times, the Roanoke NRHS Chapter's newsletter. 

Yours, 
David Meashey


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Thanks, guys! I knew I could count on the folks here to know the answer. It looks like I can abandon the idea of re-used NG cars.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sell 'em off to the natives, boxcars make great chicken coops, storage barns and sometimes shelters...., flat cars were often used as bridges, sans trucks of course! 

John


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

There is a boxcar with the ends cut out used for a bridge here in the panhandle of Florida. 

Bob C.


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