# Pulling power?



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello All
I have spent all summer adding too and rebuilding my RR while keeping a close eye on the grade. I have a difficult backyard to conquer but I was able to keep the grade 2.5 % and less over about 400 feet of track. I ran my LGB 2 4 0 yesterday and was only able to manage 3 average boxcars before it started to slip. I also have a LGB Forney which handled about the same. I have seen videos of engines pulling alot more cars comfortably (probably over very level track) and I wonder what you guys use for engines. I'm not a lover of diesels so what would you guys recommend as the best engine to pull the most cars without stripping gears up my 2.5% grade and without robbing the bank. I'm slowly replacing plastic wheels on rolling stock since I know the metal ones roll better so that could help. I really like the geared locos but don't like that Bachmann has scaled them so big compared to my mostly LGB equipment. 
Any tips ? 
Thanks, Todd


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

My Dunkirk with Bachmann shay trucks and a bit of extra weight added managed to pull 20 cars (all metal wheeled and one battery car) up a 2.5-3% grade on stainless track - 











Its only 1/24 scaled. The Hartland Big John would be a good equivalent and it known to pull pretty well.














-Brian


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Pulling power in large scale is very much like pulling power in the real world--it's closely related to weight. Generally heavier locos will pull more, although it often depends on the number of wheels as well. On my layout, the Aristo Mikado is the king of the strong pullers, followed by the Aristo Pacific and the Aristo RS-3. You could try adding a little weight to the 2-4-0, like maybe 8 ounces? Geared locos like the Shay are really strong


Those LGB X-4-0s are not very storng pullers, but you can make them very good by adding an LGB powered tender. You can find them on ebay--it's just a tender with a motor and power pickup shoes. I put one behind a little LGB 0-4-0 and it became a very effective puller. 











There are a couple motorized tenders on ebay right now--one wuld need repainting, probably. But that seems to me to be the cheapest, esiest way to stay with the LGB look and scale and not break the bank. 

Also as Brian said Hartland locos have a very good reputation


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd 

Don't expect the metal wheels to save the day as they add a lot of weight. 

Here is my 2-4-0 pulling a string of hoppers on pretty much level layout. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay-YRA-FPp8

My hoppers all have plastic wheels 

Randy


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## on30gn15 (May 23, 2009)

Posted By cape cod Todd on 07 Sep 2009 02:38 PM I ran my LGB 2 4 0 yesterday and was only able to manage 3 average boxcars before it started to slip. 
Todd 

Hey there;
Don't have tips, but can say that situation is just like lownote said, pretty much "real world" - quoting a book of steam locomotive drawings, _"A typical cut for an 0-6-0 was about six cars while an 0-8-0 might shove some 20 cars . . ." _ 

With that 2-4-0 having only 2/3 the drivers of the 0-6-0, and with 2.5% to 3% grades being pretty steep in real RR terms, that sounds pretty good actually. 

Guess what is intended here is to say, don't be disappointed that's all it did.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I agree with Randy, as I have converted some of my cars to steel wheels, I have not seen much difference, if any, in the drag of the cars. The steel wheels track better, and push their way through switches better, but that is about the only advantage I see.

Ed


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Todd, 

Something no one seems to mention - Grease the journals! I have had good luck (on advise from an old time G scaler) using white lithium grease found at any automotive supply store (Permetex is what I use). This can significantly reduce the drag. 

Bob C.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Free rolling helps, but when you are going up grades, the major component is lifting the weight of the cars... just cannot beat physics. 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you're looking for compact power, I'll echo Lownote's suggestion of the LGB 0-4-0 plus powered tender. The thing's a stump puller. I used to move 14+ cars up a 4% grade with that thing--far, far more than an 0-4-0 would ever dream of pulling. Bachmann's Climax is also a good bet, but good luck finding one. They've been out of production for quite some time, and tend to go rather quickly when they come up for sale on the secondary market. The ubiquitous LGB mogul is another good puller. Not quite the 0-4-0 plus powered tender, but will still move far longer a train than the prototype loco could. 

Later, 

K


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB powered tender can help, but it is not geared to help with the 2-4-0 (this engine has an idler gear like the moguls and mallets). Also, the tender behind the 2-4-0 has a lot of weight (69232 sound version). 

My LGB forney will out pull my LGB 2-4-0 by a factor of at least 2. Perhaps your forney has a problem. 

You could use 2 engines of the same type and double your pulling power. 

Also note that a 2.5 grade is tough, and if it has R1 curves it is doubly tough!!!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

You have a small loco that wouldn't be pulling very many cars.

I put metal wheels on all my cars because they're nicer and add some weight. Of course, you may not want the extra weight.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

My little USA trains diecast docksider so far has pulled 28 cars up a 2.5 grade with no wheels slip. it pritty heavy rite out of the box, no extra weight needed..


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks guys Nice photos and videos. I like that big John. My cars with meteal wheels do roll alot easier but yes there is added weight so I guess that is a double edged sword. My LGB 2 4 0 does have sound in the tender which makes it extra heavy so that equals a couple of cars. I also think the traction band on the wheel might be getting worn out. It does make sense that the more driving wheels and weight of the engine like the USA docksider would pull a longer heavier train. I knew that going outside would be more like a running a "real" RR in dealing with the elements I also should have figured that the grades would also pose a REAL world challenge. Luckily I do like my smaller engines and rolling stock but it would be nice to drag along half a dozen cars or so. The curves of my RR consist of LGB R2 and R3 and until next season one R1 half circle through a tunnel which I wil change out for R2' s . Thanks for the tips and ideas such as adding lube to the journals. 
T


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I think too much is made of the weight of metal wheels vs; plastic. 
As a percentage of total weight (of the car) the added bit is small, the rolling characteristics far outweigh that little bit of weight. Plus oce inertia is overcome you have momentum helping out. 
Most cars are too light out of the box, shove one down the rack. Does it ride smoothly or jump on imperfections? 
A lower center of gravity is a good thing too. 

A 2-4-0 is avery small engine, it's doing what it was designed to do, pull a small train. It was designed in the infancy of railroading and was fine for converted horse carriages, but as rolling stock grew so did the demand for larger locos. 

While a Pacific and Mikado may have similar boilers (steam generators) they had different sized wheels for different purposes. The Pacific had large drivers for speed, the trade off was less pulling power, the Mikado had smaller wheels for greater tractive effort and reduced speed. Hence the drag freight, big tonnage creeping at 10- 25 miles an hour. 

I recently bought the Aristo C-16 new version and even though I removed the lead weight and relaced it with batteries at half the weight it pulls more than I thought it should. Best of all it looks great with the Classic 1/24 cars from the old Delton line. She's a small 2-8-0 and sits low on squat drivers... pics on my MLS page. I never intend to run any trains longer tha 8 -10 cars, anything longer would look too long for my railroad! I want the train to be part of the layout not the sole focus. The C-16 won't break the bank and you get a matching caboose. Mine ran fine out of the box. 

John


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

I have come to exactly the same conclusion as John regarding metal wheels. The easy rolling and trackability of metal wheels far outweighs the advantage of lighter plastic wheels. Of course I *do* lube the journals once a year or so.


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