# I GOT MY C-19



## Kurt Sykes (Feb 28, 2008)

I got my C-19, production number 16.
What a beautiful engine it is.
Now it;s straight to my dads shop, so we can put radio control in it.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

pictures, pictures, pictures, we need pictures!!!!! Want to see how neat! http://blueregal.angefire.com/


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Pictures indeed! My C19 (sparkie though) arrived at Jonathan's Tuesday afternoon. Waiting for Airwire and sound install.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Yesterday UPS stopped by and dropped off a very large box.  After doing the usual archeological dig, I came up with my live steam #346.  It is really pretty.

I do have some pictures from this morning.  However, when I tried to access my 1st class web site I got that I was not recognized and thus could not put them there.  I put in the same username and password that gets me into the restricted forums, but got back is was invalid or I was not a 1st class member.  If somebody could walk me through the sign on process I will post the pictures.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Mikey looks like a job for you and or De Right  (dewight) lol


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Come on people, where are the photos? I need something to get me to Monday when mine is scheduled to be delivered. 

Sparkies included, Gary!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott,

I WOULD post pix, but I don't have mine yet! Jonathan received it last Tuesday and notified me that it was here. But he is going to install Airwire and Phoenix P5. Just as soon as he's finished and I get it, I'll post. Tommy Mejia has one coming, too. You might be ahead of both of us.


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## Tim Hytrek (Jan 2, 2008)

Anybody else heard about getting a C-19?   Any pictures and or reviews would be nice.

Tim


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I just received an e-mail from MLS member Tommy Mejia that he was getting his today from Jonathan.


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## Kurt Sykes (Feb 28, 2008)

Now I am sad to report that I am sending my live steam C-19 back to the dealer. 
The engine is so far out of time that it barely will run in reverse. 
If I get it back and running, Pics will follow.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Kurt- 
Sorry to hear about the timing problem on your C19. Are there instructions with the engine, about the timing adjustment? You know sooner or later, it could need some re-timing and you'll have to do it anyway. It's that far off? 

How about the general workmanship on the rest of the locomotive?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

However, when I tried to access my 1st class web site I got that I was not recognized and thus could not put them there
Looks like your space hasn't been created yet. I'll put a note in the mods forum.


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

And so, now, have I as well... 
. 
Pictures below. First some comments: 
- overall, a beautiful model with a nice, satin finish and very subdued green for boiler jacket...much nicer than the K-27. Also great since when I ordered this loco 2-1/2 years ago, the real #346 was under restoration and they hadn't announced how it would be painted...it now runs again (for another 100 years?) at the Colorado Railroad Museum...with a green boiler jacket! 
- detail equivalent to the K-28 remembering that this was a much cleaner loco with less small stuff 
- solid pilot and cab rear support so this loco is easy to pick up 
- transparent number "glass" on headlight wings with hole through to headlight interior so should illuminate if headlight gets wired 
. 
OK, what are the issues? 
- first, unpack the loco very carefully 
- foam blocks are now being used inside the tape coccoon so there was no damage 
- the pop valves, whistle, cab shades and wire for mounting the cab shades were all loose 
- some of the loose parts were outside the coccoon while others were inside some layers of wrapping 
- I never found one cab shade mounting wire (though the easiest possible thing to replace 
- small bag inside the wrap had the front number plate, stand pipe and valve for the steam dome and a small screw 
- another bag had the whistle "rope" (wire) 
- Cliff at Accucraft said all the small parts that were loose in my packing were supposed to be in the bag (which was sealed so they didn't fall out) 
- unpack the tender carefully 
- here, all the parts and tools were in zip-lock bags 
- tender wobbles a lot-it needs a much stiffer truck spring at a minimum 
- rear coupler is pinned like the front, but seems rather loose and has no centering springs (but it looks like they could be added easily) 
. 
Questions I raised with Cliff and he promised to research: 
- tender comes with two rerailing frogs, but there are no hangers on the tender 
- small screw mentioned above fits in threaded hole on side of the whistle - #346 had a large lever on the whistle that arched down over the dome - screw may have been meant to attached a missing lever or just be the anchor for the whistle wire 
. 
Question that he had an answer for: 
- why put the lubricator on the RH (engineer's side)? With the steam gauge there as well, it'll be a challenge to mount an R/C servo for the Johnson bar. As I am not planning to R/C mine, it doesn't much matter, but it is hard to fathom why they changed it from there other locos. The answer BTW is that this is where it is on the prototype that has been in circulation for years so presumably you all would have complained, if needed 
. 
Question I wished I'd asked Cliff but had noticed (I will ask him when he answers the questions above): where is the water pump? In the tender interior photo below, you can see four bolts that do nothing but look suspiciously like a water pump mount. There is a hole in the forward bulkhead of the tender that can (and will on mine) take the water line 
. 
Fixable, cosmetic issue: the number plate is mounted on a long shaft and stands 5/16-3/8" off the front of the smokebox. Great as a handle, lousy for looks. Mounting shaft needs to be shortened and rethreaded for a closer mount. 
. 
Good feature: steam dome screws off at the base providing very good access to the pop valve (unlike my early run K-28) 
. 








Right-hand Front View - note stand off distance of number plate 








Right-hand view 








Left-hand view 








Right-hand Tender View 








Top View - note placement of stand pipe, pop valves and whistle on steam dome 








Cab View - note lubricator and steam gauge on right side 








Tender Interior View - note 4 mounting bolts on near side for water pump?


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott- 
Very nice! Jonathan e-mailed me saying he would have the Airwire and sound installed in about a week or so on my #346(sparkie, you know). That number plate is definately going to be fixed. I have a machinist that can fix that quickly-no trouble. Mine will have a little more detail in the cab. How well do the tender trucks roll? The air tank on the tender looks more squared off than the prototype model on Accucraft website. The green shade of the boiler jacket looks very nice-subdued. I'll see if the sparkie tender has hangars for the re-rail frogs. All in all, pretty nice!


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

I spent Saturday with C-19 serial # 015. Scott is right on with the comments he has made. New owners should also look at the spring on the Johnson Bar to see if it jammed up against the boiler. We removed the piviot and turned it around so that is goes left to right looking down from the top. The brake shoes on the last pair of drivers were touching against the 3rd and 4th pairs of wheels. The brake hanger on the fiirst pair of wheels may contact the rocker for the valve gear . Check this out , ours did. Eccentric straps between the frame rub the boiler insulation and needs to be cut back to clear. The gas feed line in the tender was kinked and no gas flow , plus a plugged jet. When we got it running , we discovered the same problem , it is out of time. Arrangements have been made with Cliff to have this sorted out . A very nice model , most problems can be fixed with a little effort . We decided to let the pros handle the timing issue as it was not my engine , just helping the new owner get it running. 

Charles M SA#74


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Update: 

A friend reports his C-19 came with the whistle lever that I speculate was a missing item on mine (I have the mounting screw and the whistle rope/wire...no lever). 

He also reports he has hangers for the rerailing frogs on the tender. Soldered on, so it isn't just an issue of forgeting to bolt something on my loco. His version is #340 and has no cab window awnings nor the mounting loops on the cab so it doesn't appear to be an issue of missing parts but one of a different cab/era. 

Further on my remarks about an apparent water pump mounting: same friend reports it is the same (mounts but no pump) on the C-16. What it looks like is a pre-configuration for an add-on kit...which I don't think they offer. I'll do some measurements, but it looks like the same pump as in the K-28 would fit. There is a plug on the backhead where you'd want to add the check-valve. Maybe an opportunity here for an after-market kit. 

Charles: good info...I won't be running mine until Dr. Rivet returns from the West. Which version do you have and does it have the whistle lever and frog hangers? 

Gary: no info on setting timing. Accompanying booklet is very eneral procedure for running the loco. It would be a challenge for someone unfamiliar with live steam to use it as their sole source of instruction. The only Accucraft loco I have that descibes setting the timing is the Mimi.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chama on 04/01/2008 4:48 AM 
Update: 
A friend reports his C-19 came with the whistle lever that I speculate was a missing item on mine (I have the mounting screw and the whistle rope/wire...no lever). 
He also reports he has hangers for the rerailing frogs on the tender. Soldered on, so it isn't just an issue of forgeting to bolt something on my loco. His version is #340 and has no cab window awnings nor the mounting loops on the cab so it doesn't appear to be an issue of missing parts but one of a different cab/era. 
Further on my remarks about an apparent water pump mounting: same friend reports it is the same (mounts but no pump) on the C-16. What it looks like is a pre-configuration for an add-on kit...which I don't think they offer. I'll do some measurements, but it looks like the same pump as in the K-28 would fit. There is a plug on the backhead where you'd want to add the check-valve. Maybe an opportunity here for an after-market kit. 
Charles: good info...I won't be running mine until Dr. Rivet returns from the West. Which version do you have and does it have the whistle lever and frog hangers? 
Gary: no info on setting timing. Accompanying booklet is very eneral procedure for running the loco. It would be a challenge for someone unfamiliar with live steam to use it as their sole source of instruction. The only Accucraft loco I have that descibes setting the timing is the Mimi.

Wow, what a great looking engine. 
Accucraft has done the missing hand pump thing on the C-16 & Mogul as well. The holes are there in the tender, and the backhead has either one of the glorious /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif" border=0>" Accucraft check valves, or just a bushing. The thing that really bothers me is this loco was advertised has having "Water tank with hand pump" /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/plain.gif" border=0>" 
http://www.accucraft.com/index.php?show_aux_page=46 
On the other hand, I have not found Accucraft hand pumps or check valves acceptable in stock condition (my opinion, others may vary). 
I can live with some of the detail issues, but shipping engines to customers that have timing issues is pretty bad. Accucraft should get on the ball and get something posted ASAP on how to tune these. Most people that run live steam (again - IMHO) are somewhat mechanically inclined, and would probably rather tune their engine than ship it around the country to get it tuned.


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Folks, 
. 
The burning question is: has anybody been able to run their C-19? So far we have two reports of suspiciously similar timing issues and the concern is that someone on the assembly line was carefully setting each loco that came by in exactly the same (incorrect) way. I don't know when I'll be able to steam mine but it may not be until the weekend after next. It doesn't seem to push smoothly in either direction regardless of the Johnson bar setting. 
. 
Another thing to check (if you have some calipers) is the diameter of the drivers. My center pair do not sit on the rail and I can't determine if it is becasue of intentionally undersized drivers (I hope not) or overall stiff springing. 
Dave: damn, I missed the refernce to the hand pump (which is still posted on their web site as you noted)! I actually think the pump in the K-28 works pretty well and would like to get what was promised. 
. 
Update as of a moment ago: Cliff has noted the items I mentioned and is researching them all including the tender pump. Since the small items like the whistle lever and frog hoohs don't affect the ability to run the loco, I suggested that he just take the bits and pieces input he is likely to get a the locos arrive and send out the parts later. I didn't want him to strip another loco as he offered to day. I wasn't making his day when I pointed out the missing, but advertised tender pump. 
. 
Bottom line is that Accucraft is on the case and will work to make everyone happy...and it is a beautiful loco!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting that in the new catalog there is no mention of the hand pump but there is mention of a fitting for check valve (why?). As with all companies and so stated on the back of the booklet, "...subject to change without notice." 
As to the quality of the hand pump relative to operating, I would reflection on Accucraft commitment to excellence: "we are not satisfied until you are."


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott, 
The model I saw was the same as yours, it had the rerailing frogs, but no whistle lever was included that we could see. You might look at the top of the eccentric straps between the frames. They may be rubbing on the insulation on the underside of the boiler. Number 015 was very stiff when we tried to roll the wheels over and this was part of the cause. The removal of the brake shoes also helped. However they should clear on this model and do not. There was not enough clearance between the wheels for the curved brake hanger and brake shoe . It is a puzzle how it was intended to work. 

You may find that you will have to straighten the gas line out for it to work. No. 015 was kinked just like yours and nothing would work. 

Charles M SA#74


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

It didn't take Accucraft long to take the "tender with hand pump" off the website! It's gone..... They still have the blower valve listed LOL


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Another update: Cliff called me today to follow up on some earlier questions 
. 
First, no definitive answer regarding the tender pump. As was pointed out by others, the printed catalog doesn't mention a pump though the web site clearly did until today. There was a disclaimer onthe web site about changes (this is my observation, not something that Cliff was emphasizing). My suggestion to him was that some might like a pump and some could probably care less. Since other models (Mogul and C-21?) were similarly set up for a pump that wasn't included, why not offer a modestly priced (IMHO = $50-75) add-on kit with pump, hose and check valve. The thing about this that strikes me as kind of backward is that the really large locos (K-27, K-28) go the better part of an hour on a boiler fill. Pumping them up makes for a very long run. The smaller boilered locos run dry in 15-20 minutes and , for me at least, would benefit from a pump. Also, my 3-cylinder Accucraft Shay (2/3 the price of the C-19) has a pump (and needs it). 
. 
Second, Cliff would like to hear from you directly about specific problems you may have with your C-19 since they can't/won't try to glean the details here. Send him an email or call. 
. 
Finally, and probably first in importance, is that there is a timing problem with some number of C-19s (how many? Cliff won't know unless you contact him directly). Setting the valves is more complicated with slide valves, but I think we'll see a how-to instruction offered soon so that most intrepid fiddlers can get it corrected without packing it back up and sending it off.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott, 

If you really want a hand pump and check valve, then get the 3cyl shay hand pump and check valve off of Accucraft's website (listed in the online store). All their pumps/check valves are the same for any engine, save for the one's that use a barbed hose fitting (ala the k-28). I think I still have a spare pump form a GS-4 if you would like it. Shoot me a PM.


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan, 
I had, in fact, thought of looking for an add-on pump in the Accucraft store. I tried every likely category and didn't find one. After your assertion that they are offering one, I paged through 33 of the 34 pages of parts in the full listing to find both the 3-cyl Shay pump ($99) and a yet-to-be-released or photographed second pump (also $99). 
I'm not in a screaming hurry to add a pump until I get the loco running and find out what it does on a boiler full of water. Thatnks for the offer. I might take you up later (assuming you still have it), but not for now. 
Maybe the solution for those expecting a pump with the loco is to offer the add-on at a discounted price?


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Of course if you want another option for a hand um and a firect bolt on look at the Aster Trackside pump. While a few dollars more you get a pump designed for small scale boilers not 3/4" scale...I look foward to Daves loco running soon


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

I finally got a look today (black #340) and I think this engine is absolutely gorgeous!! The paint and details look as good as or better than the K-28. The pipe work and detailing looks great and seems very sturdy. The suspension seems to actually work (not super stiff like past locos), and each driver has 3 springs over each pedestal binder, which should help in tuning it if required. I was also pleasantly surprised the smokebox door had ceramic insulation AND a brass shield, finally our doors may stay silver! Also, the 340 number plate is spaced very nicely, not too long as with the 346 engine. The engine to tender spacing is nice and close, and the diamond plate foot board reaches across from cab to tender easily. 

As previously stated, one issue is the tender springs are way too weak, and it wants to almost tip to one side and stay there. The other very annoying thing (although minor) is the way the whistle, safeties, and other accessories were just thrown in the box loose, not even in a bag, You could hear them rolling around in there before opening, Come on….. 

The real test will be the run on roller tomorrow…. Now for a few pictures.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 
Nice locomotive. I did not realize the detail would be so good. I can't wait to see one close up. I'm also eager to read your report on how it runs. Thanks for the pictures and comments.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

I ran my C-19 on rollers... and the verdict is: Runs fine in both directions!! 

Video evidence: 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DavidRose/C-19/C-19-1st-run.wmv 


I did have to fix the gas hose in the tender (crimped shut on the curve). The problem here is the spring Accucraft used was oversized. I had some correct size spring to put around the hose and it work like a champ. 

So far I am very pleased with the engine.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

One other thing worth mentioning.. Obviously the engine will run better once it's broken in and running on track (with the inertia (sp?) of the engine). I just put the rollers under the engine loose- better to put on track for alignment. I was operating around 35-40 PSI as seen in the video.


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## danielstroka (Jan 10, 2008)

Dave, 

Too bad the weather here is not exactly cooperating today. I would like to see it running outside with a string of cars in tow to see what she really can do. 

Bring it on Sunday, it should fit within the clearances and run on the ground layout just fine. If not I can sacrifice trying to grow grass and we can run it on the elevated track.


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## turbohvn (Jan 7, 2008)

If anyone is interested, I still have a few of the C-19s available, and they are at the old price! Call me if interested 703-799-9643 

Royce


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

I just got a call from one of my train buddies (Bob Root) who also ordered a live steam C-19 (#340 serial number 61). He reports it runs fine in both directions as well.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

I finally just had to have one brought RGS #41 last week. Packaged well and ran right out of the box. So now I have taken out the lubricator trying to fiquare out if it should placed on the other side of the cab. It may be the easiest way to mount an R/C servo for the Johnson bar. Maybe I'll have it done in time for AZ.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, 

I have a nice solution for J-Bar R/C on the C-19 that does not require moving the lubricator. I will post a few photos shortly.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

This is still very much a work in progress on the C-19, but here is the basic concept. I made a bracket out of brass to hold the servo over the J-Bar, and the bracket is held to the far side of the J-bar with two 2-56 hex head screws. I painted the brass plate black but had to do additional work (servo was to high) after it was painted, so it's not real pristine anymore, but the black helps camouflage it in the cab. I used some components from Servo City to attach the J-Bar to the servo (a type of ball joint). I set the travel adjust on the Spektrum and all works well. 










The pipe work runs to a check valve, but that's a topic for another day (like when it's done)


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nicely done, David!


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice job Dave. I see some plumbing work as well...


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 
Another nifty solution and the bracket will serve as a heat shield, also. Where did you locate the battery and did you go for a higher capacity rechargeable one this time?


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looks like a better idea guess I will be using yours. Thanks for posting!


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## Kurt Sykes (Feb 28, 2008)

Well,here it is, 
runnin on the rail. 
here is the link on youtube. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQFangFqgRw


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott/Justin/Mark - Thanks! 

Carl - Actually, the fact that the lubricator is on the engineers side opens up the entire Firemans side for a battery! Turns out it may not be a bad thing at all! My install is on hold while I catch up with real work (IE my job that pays for this stuff . I'll post more when I get back on it. 

Kurt - Very nice run... Nice layout too. 

-Dave


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, after having my #346 C-19 for a couple of months now, I finally got a chance to steam it up today (April and May were really busy months...no time until now). Had a lot of initial problems getting the burner to fire evenly at a fairly high intensity until I cleaned the jet (for the second time). Now all is well with it burning rather quietly at a setting that keeps up 60#. Haven't seen the safety valve pop yet (heard from others it is set to ~65#). Mechanism runs smoothly forward and reverse. I'm quite happy. 

Issues noted along the way: needed to trim the in-tender fule line to remove the kink. Then needed to trim it again after finding it had a pin-hole puncture that was notice because of gas bubbling up through the bath. Bath by the way can't be filled to surround the gas tak because it runs out the forward bulkhead hole that appears to be designed for a water line coupling to the provided-for-but-missing water pump. 

Also broke off the number plate using it to open the smokebox door (and not with excessive force). However, its mounting post needs to be shortened and rethreaded any way since it stood about 5/16" off the smokebox. 

Second C-19 #346 (Dr. Rivet's) also enjoyed its maiden run today, so there are two more that work more-or-less right out of the box. Of course, Jim's came with a whistle lever (mine may have been the only one where this was missing?), but no tender hangers for the rerailing frogs. Precision offers such and I think that will be the faster/better route to get this fixed. I've already made a whistle lever which is bright brass like #346 and not black like the Accucraft version. 

All-in-all, a nice loco!


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

further on the broken number plate issue from my 5/26 post: 

I threaded the large portion of the shaft with a 3mm die and drilled and tapped the smokebox door for the same. This allowed me to thread the stem to a depth tha brings the number plate closer to smokebox door instead of the original, ridiculous standoff. Also, since I threaded the larger shaft than the original smaller diameter end, it should be much stronger. A touch of JB weld and I think this is the final fix.


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