# LGB Mogul Variations



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

*I'd love to own one of the LGB Moguls.* 
I'm not a fan of the bear trap look.

I prefer a black or dark gray.

But knowing there are several variations, it would be great to know which are which.

Did they all have smoke?

What ones have sound?

I believe some have electrinic sound.

I've seen the Brown Penn and the blue Baltimore & Ohio

But how about the rest.

Were early releases more prone to gear failure?

Thanks


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Go to the Gartenbahn Database, Garden Railroad database, at 

http://www.gbdb.info 

Type mogul into the basic search field and you will get a good cross-section of the different moguls in Large Scale. 

knut


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy:

Only the first generation the red and green wood burner had design problems. LGB replaced those motor blocks with out question. I have 5 that represent several generations. The Bear Trap stack is limited to a few models. If you don't like it it is easily removed. My first one did not have sound, and my Lake George and Boulder yellow one did not come with sound. All the others did have a sound board. The sound from the earlier version wasn't great, but it was the best we had. 


The idler gear between the motor and the drivers seems to be a weak link. Over the years, I have had to replace several. Once I stopped putting fishing weights in the cab and pulled shorter trains, that problem hasn't come back. Now I limit it to 6 or 7 cars on a relatively level track.


Chuck 


PS since the Mogul is an American locomotive, you might get more answers in another forum, such as Rolling Stock or Public Forum.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The newest moguls produced by marklin have the bear trap as an option. Sell it on E-bay!!! 

Look at the part number for what an engine has. Old 4 digit numbers had a D for Dampf (German for smoke) or an S for Sound. 

All moguls had 5 volt lights and smoke. Some had fireboxes. 

4 digit units had Analog sound.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Better yet, save the ebay costs and sell it to me! I'll pay top dollar for them! (I'd like to have two more!)


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

randy 

youll need to look (google) " champex linden" and look over the catalog 
or gartenbahn or some other LGB cached site with the different models

when the engines had 4 digit numbers-"S" means sound-and it will mean analog sound
in ancient LGB times "d" means smoke -this was when not all LGB locos offered smoke
ALL MOGULS HAVE SMOKE-no exceptions
so when you see a 2018D
its the same as a 20181-(smoke is no longer indicated by the "D" but its there -its simply a change in the number sysytm)

when they went to 5 digits 
a 2 as the last digit means sound

so the original black c and s was a 2019 S
in the later number system if will be a 20192

if it were NON sound-it would be either 2019 or 
20191-(or 2019D (which actually never exisited-but to use as an exmaple only to clarify the suffix numbers and letters) 

now you know what to look for in the numbers
(and it is not true that all the others had sound-there were later 2001-2006 models such as but not limtied to 23191 , 24191, etc were offered without sound as were many many others (like the undec black c and s version with red window frames)

typically also the second digit and third digit change with body style varitions and paint scheme variations-

a 2018 is the original red dsp and p mogul
2028 is the russian iron blue DSPP mogul
21181 is the garrish, red drivered, silver congdon stacked, DRG version wood burner

notice all three above are identical BODY STYLE models (not paint) -in the first two the third digit changed to show a different paint-in the third the second digit changed--no i dont know why this is this way-perhaps it is also a different upgraded mechanism-but to my knowledge ( and i have all) it isnt

2119 is the bumble bee-a mix of the two body parts-not simply a repaint of the 2019S-(and not sound, 2119 no S)

there are many
not all original versions were available with sound-
so youll not see a 2018 or 2028 that came with facotry sound
-as you may see from time to time represented by the ebay thugs
there is one guy that adds old analog or phoenix sound to these old models and charges prices like the latest factory new versions
i know of nothing tha will help you know if sound is ananlog or digital from numbers-it is safe to assume that S will be analog

sound changed to digital around 1995-96 if i recall-but i havent researched my catalogs for you-only my scotch dimmed memory




none are dogs -but for owner mistreatment or 'stupid kid tricks' 
there are no quirks or bad models you need to be concerened about-(the very first red mogul version has little play in thecenter axel and binds more on R1s but not so badly as to be a problem overall-ive got one and its running fine still- )

moguls prefer R2 -all moguls will ever so slightly slow down on R1 in my experience 

most issues are 
just too much use- or 'improvements by the owner'

parts are not impossible, but not always easy and no longer cheap for the most part

ive got 6 moguls , and i like the compactness of them-
the only rival imho for a nice easy to handle US NG engine is the forney-


the LGB moguls are really nice locos, and imho,

the original wood burner is extremely close to the photos of the DSPP cooke #71 ive seen 
and the original C and S modern B-3 coal burner sure looks like #6 or 9 to me (sans classification lamps)

all light, all smoke (smoke units now, are expensive-you need a 5v -to replace a broken unit is super easy-the cost is about 30-35 -simply pull out the old cut the wires and wire up and slip the new one in the stack)
all have a traction tire-as i recall some had 2 

some have lighted fireboxs-usually the sound versions (even the later undec modern all black model) and

for most sound models 
the digital sound is very good IMHO- (i run analog) -

the analog sound is fine, but for the synth whistle-even the synth bell is accpetable if not great-the whistle is ....not like a train whistle 
would not pay a premium for analog sound-you can do better after market if you wish

early sound versions use a 9v as a the 'capacitor' for standing sounds-they work great and sometimes better than the later capacitor versions -there is no battery drain when turned off
digital (DCC) versions , i believe, will not have any capacitor so no standing sounds if you run analog unless you add one (which they are desinged to accept) i dont know of any in this catagory unless ther are very very late LGB or current marklin DCC equipped sound versions

(btw) in the transition years between analog and DCC-you may see a like silver sticker with a circle of balck dots on it-like the cylinder on a revolver- on the loco -this means that you can simply pulg in a chip-no re-wiring-
when a loco is chip equipped it will state digital on the sticker-all LGB will run analog-no exceptions no hassles


beartraps are easily removed-they are a simple clamshell molding that fits onto the lip of the standard stack-i routinely add and subtract my extras from a variety of my LGB engines just for fun 
and the real metal screen inhibits flow of smoke-sliding the screen up so theres a sliver of opening at the bottom really helps flow 


since about(???) 1993-4 all moguls have a lead truck that will accept a plow -much older units need a replacement pilot whell "arm" in order to take a plow -there a difference in the molding that allows the plow, a later feature-to simply be screwed on 

plows are not exactly functional for all but the lightest and shallow snow-but 
they tone down red pilots when replaced, and look more business like to me 
and best of all 

they accept a front coupler-typically a knuckle 

as an overview 

the chassis is more or less the same 
then LGB has mixed and matched some of the various compenents among various offereings 

the first was the DSPP wood burner-wood cab-point domes, short smoke box, long pilot, box lamp-etc 
the second style was the C and S B-3 -more modern coal burner-steel cab, back up and front modern visored lights, different dome spacing, long smoke box, modern road pilot, etc 


so lgb has mixed and matched these components to create a wider range of its Mogul type over the years, as well as the paint schemes: 

a short and long smoke box 
wood burner versus coal 
wood cab versus steel 
domes on boiler-some have pointed caps some have rounded domes 
placement of domes -back like a modern C and S B-3 
or apart like the old time orignal Cooke prototype 

road pilot (modern) butterfly C and S style plow, lonng old time pilot with link and pin style draw bar 
headlight variations are either box or modern with visor 



moguls all have a 3 or 4 postion off-on smoke/lights/on motor/on sound-depending on era-early sound versions have the sound switch on the tender and only a 3 position in the cab 

they track well and can handle r1-depending on the tender weight and the size of train-they back pretty well 

the congdon stacks (big DSPP style 'balloon' can often be removed and a trackside details or other stack (straight or diamond) fitted without hassle-reallly changes the look 

i have moguls of several eras including i think the first version -only my first version seems to bind slightly on R1-the first version has boiler grab rails of a single piece of flex plastic, super shiny, real gold platied,-it is not the real brass of later versions 

these are truly a wonderful locos 
buy one in good condition, without issues, 
as mentioned keep the trains relatively short (per prototype) 
you will love the loco-it is an excellent smooth performer, delightful to watch, robust 

always support the loco from the underside when transporting- a top grip-for me at least-creates a grip on the side boards which might not be strong enough to carry the loco- 

good luck 
youll love it if you get one
i strongly suggest a good reputable dealer that buys collections to get a nice used or NOS one-


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, thanks Steve! That's about the best summation I have ever heard on the LGB Mogul!


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

also in the archives -thanks to jerry 
there was a good list and pic of moguls-but i don tknow if it still there with pics 
thanks steve! 

i might add on second thought
there is only i version LGB mogul i would think twice about

(the engine itslef is is fine and high quality)

it is the SP vandy tender version

the loco will give you the same great running aspects smoke etc

altho i love vanderbuilt style tenders and this is meant to mimic the whaleback SP version (of a 4-6-0 out in Nevada as i recall) 

the vandy tender is from the 'starter ' US series 2-4-0 and 0-4-0 stout ugly steam engines 
the sound is not synched
the whislte is ok but stingy in the number of blasts-one thats it thats all you get-but its unique and nice)
it does have bell and uses the magnet reed triggers 

and worst 
the plastic used on this chinese made tender (dont know if mogul is chinese but i suspect so) is brittle

and it is easy to break the stirrups and damned near to impossible to get replacements and they are expensive if you can

otoh-price is everything and a good price on this particular loco ( highly unlikely since it a late make) would be different
and
you might love it-to me i could love it easily -at the right price-say about$300-maybe even $400 or so in new condition-(no gonna happen btw) 


i would NOT pay anything close to the price of a real LGB digital mogul for this single SP vandy version-because of the sound-the chuff is fine-just not synched and MOST importantly -there is no standing sound -just isnt there and cant be made to be there -and this adds a lot-none of the more modern later digital features like brakes or coal shoveling or air pumps-so youre getting a really basic kid sound system-at an adult price-that the crux of my opinion 

(btw i have the starter sound engines with a vandy sound so i am familiar first hand-i guess to me the mogul is only worth slightly more than the 2-4-0-id rather buy a non sound mogul and add a nice system because i think they will ultimately cost about the same in this market

the tender is interesting-but even by my very very low standards for looks, its pushing the limit in terms of proportions and overall aesthetics-but it does have a rear light!!!

the tenders track well and run fine-they are just odd in height and just dont look as harmonius/appropriate with the mogul as the mogul tender does

now we need to wait for jerry mccolgan to add his expertise and thoughts for you Randy!

oh you didnt ask and i dont know if moguls were ever made in china
but i have several chinese LGB items and they are very very good, the major difference i have found is metal weights are lighter alloy and the plastic, while close, is a bit more brittle and less forgiving of rough handling and accidents-keep those speeds down on the curves and bridges ! 

i think he owns most of the moguls LGB ever produced LOL


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks all 

Your info really helps


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I bought a an LGB Mogul w/vandy tender last year from Trainworld. Mine has standing sound and synchronized chuff. Yes, I would love to replace the sound as it has the same sound as my LGB Southern 2-4-0. I paid $700. Regards, Dennis.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Humm 

I rather like the sound of my 2-4-0. 

Another questions, all the different model numbers. Were the numbers on the cabs different for each model number or did they use the same cab numbers on different model numbers?


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

The same Vandy tender and onboard sound system is utilized for both the 2-4-0 and 2-6-0 Moguls of later productions. 

As far as I know each LGB part number was run with the same cab ID number. 

Randy if your looking to purchase a Mogul, contact me via PM, I maybe able to help. 

Michael


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 09 Apr 2011 05:53 AM 
Were the numbers on the cabs different for each model number or did they use the same cab numbers on different model numbers?




Different cab numbers for each of the different model numbers as you can see on the database:
Maybe a bit hard to see here.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well done! 

Randy -not in the great pics above 
is the first bumble bee -the 2119 with grey drivers and yellow boiler


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

KRS that is a great addition to the info so far. 

I really like the one with the Vandy tender. I've never seen it before.

Steve thanks


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By stevedenver on 09 Apr 2011 11:46 AM 
well done! 

Randy -not in the great pics above 
is the first bumble bee -the 2119 with grey drivers and yellow boiler 


I didn't know there was a version of the 2119 with an all yellow boiler.
Doesn't show up in any of the LGB collector books - does anyone have a picture of one?

There is also this versionof the 2119 which didn't come up in the search earlier because "Mogul" was nowhere in the description.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

DOH! 
my mistake - i actually have it 
i meant the domes as compared to the last version


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the rounded domes. 

There is a Baltimore & Ohio Blue Mogul on Ebay To bad the pics aren't of the loco and tender put together like it ran.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By stevedenver on 09 Apr 2011 02:04 PM 
DOH! 
my mistake - i actually have it 
i meant the domes as compared to the last version 
Ah... Ok, the one with the black domes is a much later version:


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The SP with a vandy tender is wired differently than all the other moguls. Connector for the engine to tender is a 5 pin!!! Also, no power pickups on the tender. 

Most moguls has a 6 pin connector and only three pins were used on the non-sound older models. New models do have all 6 wires, 2 for power, 2 for speaker, 2 for rear light. 
If no sound board, just no tender speaker. 

Also, the 2028 had 3 wire plug and socket, not 6 pin compatible.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

likewise the 2018 

and FWIW 
when unpluging the plug from the tender, it is advisable to pull the plug not using the wire-i use a dental pick 
with handling the flat wire will eventually have one or more wires brak at the point of flexion 

the plug can be carefully prized apart 
it has tiny teeth which piere the wire insulation 
by trimming the broken portion and re clamping things can easily be repaired 

i really like that second bumblebee 


not at all prototypcial -a use of the K-28 paint on the mogul-but it just looks nice to my eye 
i like the crisp contrast of the black engine and the yellow 
not as washed out as the 2119 

the first version was closer to #268, but the domes (and of course wheel arrangement_ among other things were wrong )

still i like aspen gold 
and you dont see many yellow locomotives!


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