# NCE 5 amp radio



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Hi guys. Does anyone here know if I can use my NCE 5 amp radio system to power a 150' loop layout, running a USA trains GP-38 and a Bachmann Thomas set? I even have some extra HO Digitrax and TCS decoders lying around and an NCE Powercab, too. I plan on beginning with electricity to the rails for now, and maybe battery power later, as the track ages and becomes troublesome. Thanks for your opinions. Ken S.


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

The NCE 5 amp system should be ok for just two locomotives as long as you aren't pulling long trains up inclines. And if you have a string of lighted passenger cars you might have trouble. I would NOT use the HO decoders in the USA locomotive. It might work in the Bachman. You should measure the current when the locomotives are stalled on DC first. I suspect the HO decoders are only good for 1 amp continuous and 2 amp peak. I would suspect the Greg and some of the others will respond on this also.
Bob


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

I wouldn't use a 5 amp system on any G Scale USA locomotive. Nor would I ever use an HO Decoder on a USA locomotive. Even if I weren't pulling any cars!! The USA locomotives are known for their high current draw, and a HO decoder isn't going to last long tring to deliver such High current demands. QSI G Scale decoders are rated at I beleave 6, and 10 Amps per decoder. So that makes it real hard for 5 amp power supply to deal with, and even harder for a HO decoder that would be lucky to deliver 2 amps. It's your time, your money, and your equipment, but I wouldn't do it. 

Loco Lee


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

All due respect Lee, the claims of the high stall current came out years ago, but it's the average current that is important, and much more "normal". I do have about 20 USAT locos, and a couple with the very early QSI board sets that run all the weird lighting circuits. No problems 

Also, I run NCE D408 decoders all the time with USAT locos and have never had a failure, and they are 4 amp continuous. 

That said, no HO decoder I know of is appropriate for any USAT loco I have seen. 

Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

With all due respect there Greg. 

A NCE 408 Isn't an HO decoder is it? I use 408's as well for all of the sweeper locomotives that I build. I'd also be willing to bet that NCE wouldn't recommend their 5 amp system for running G Scale locomotives. Now I know that if you have a flat track, and if you run small trains that you may be able to get away with it, but you know as well as I do that if you, or I, said it was OK, that someone would do it, and blame one of us for smoking their decoder. You have to remember that I worked for Motorola, and the Military. If it won't work 100% of the time, I can't recommend doing it.


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

With all due respect there Greg. 

A NCE 408 Isn't an HO decoder is it? I use 408's as well for all of the sweeper locomotives that I build. I'd also be willing to bet that NCE wouldn't recommend their 5 amp system for running G Scale locomotives. Now I know that if you have a flat track, and if you run small trains that you may be able to get away with it, but you know as well as I do that if you, or I, said it was OK, that someone would do it, and blame one of us for smoking their decoder. You have to remember that I worked for Motorola, and the Military. If it won't work 100% of the time, I can't recommend doing it.


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

I go back to what I said in my other post on this subject. The NCE 5 amp system should run his railroad just fine, with no problems. I ran my railroad for close to a year with my Digitrax Zephyr 2.5 amp system. I was able to run two locomotives at a time, on flat track with short trains. If he was going to buy a new system I would certainly recommend the NCE 10amp system. But he has the 5 amp and it should be fine at this point.
Bob


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

I'm enjoying the forum guys, lots of things I hadn't considered. I should have said that besides Thomas and his 2 crazy carriages, my GP 38 will be hauling 6 or 7 wagons at the max. I do have 2 NCE hammer head radio controllers, so, if the 10 amp system will work, I'll keep the 5 amp on the HO layout, and take a drive over to Litchfield Station and pick up a 10 amp command station for outside. 

It sounds like a 4 amp decoder is enough?

Then, in the future, if I go to battery power, can I use any parts of the NCE system? Or, must I buy something completely different at that time? I'm not clear on how all that will work. 

Ken S. (original post)


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Battery power is a totaly different animal. You will need a different command system, because you are no longer getting power, or command signals from the track. There is one system that I've seen that uses Track power, and a battery at the same time. The system charges off the track. That way you don't have to remove, or plug in the battery car 

Loco Lee


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Lee, I made 2 statements, that the 408 is fine for the USAT locos, and that an HO decoder is not. 

How many USAT locos do you own, and how many have you installed 408's in? I would not try to compete with me on numbers. Not arrogance, just fact and a few years of doing it (I have 20 USAT locos) I also run a rampmeter at all times on my layout and know what a brace of F3's up a 3.4% grade draw. (Just under 5 amps with a long train). Never had a 408 fail from over current. Yes, NCE won't recommend the 408 because they make the 808... and George Schreyer scared the poop out of them by locking the wheels of a USAT loco and measuring a huge number of amps. (But the wheels will slip long before that). 

By the way I have melted an 808 running at 5 amps too, so, while I love the NCE system, I'm not writing love letters about their decoders. 

Come by my place after the November show, and I prove every last word to you in person. (You can come by for any other reason too ha ha!) 

And 5 amps is ok for 2 locos with mild grades and medium trains... longer trains and grades over 1%, I would not recommend anything less than about 8 amps for 2 trains. I do have one train, but with lighted passenger cars and it draws 9.97 amps. 

I always recommend at least 10 amps. 

Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Greg, 

I only have 38 G Scale locomotives, and about half are USA. As far as installing 408's in locomotives, I only use them for sweepers, and I've only done around 20 of those. So relax Greg. I'm sure you know the difference between AC, and DC by now LOL. You don't have to prove anything to me. I know that you know a little something about trains. He asked for advice, and I gave him mine. If he's like any of my customers, his layout will keep growing, and the power demands will keep growing as well. 

Lee


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

There,s no need to switch to battery. DtCC works just as well outside as inside. The 408 decoder has worked fine for me in three USAT locos, and as mentioned, you can get away with the 5 amp system if your needs are small, track is level etc.



As far as battery, you can have batteries and DCC control, but you would need a different throttle/cab. NCE makes a "gwire" throttle, which communicates with a gwire card you connect to each decoder. The gwire receiver card adds about 100 bucks to the cost of each loco. There's also the Airwire system of throttles and decodes, which allow you to send DCC commands to battery powered locos


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Lee, what king of decoders do you have in those USAT? I guess they (the decoders) will be on the market soon? 

I put a bunch of those super cheap MRC ones while waiting for the QSI drop-in. When they blow up I just put in another one.... I do have 3 of the early QSI prototypes. 

Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey Greg, 

Most all of my locomotives have QSI in them. I do have 2 Zimo decoders as well. One of them is in my LGB Grinder Locomotive, and the other one I was testing out to see how well I liked them. The rest of them are waiting for the new Emulator. I only use the Digitrax 408 for the Sweepers that I build. 

Sweeper Video 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcJvAuI2B5A&list=UU1tCGhDuAXuAjmDz4u0PZIQ&index=2&feature=plcp 



Loco Lee


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So you are running the "original" QSI in your USAT? Since we are friends, I'm entitled to yank your chain a bit.... 

You are running 3 amp decoders in USAT after lecturing about the high current draw in USAT? 

(yes I know the QSI have 5 amp FETs, but with no cooling they won't run 5 amps in my experience) 

"you better 'splain yourself Lucy!" 

I think you have proven what I said, that the ACTUAL current requirements of USAT locos have been exaggerated, true, they can have some humongous stall currents, and high inrush currents (I'm not saying George Schreyer is wrong) but the average currents of the motors is no worse than Aristo. 

Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Good Try Greg, 

People call me "Loco Lee" for a reason. I own very little rolling stock, just Locomotives. I have just 2 depressed center flats, and a few regular flats. I use those to haul candy at Halloween, and for hauling bricks around the layout when I test the locomotives that I build. The old QSI will do 5 amps no problem. We are aware of the USA's higher current draw, and that's why the Titan is available in the higher current units. 

Loco Lee


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

We can agree to disagree.... I can't get them to sustain 5 amps continuously, no heat dissipation. Now the new Titan's that come with a fan, no problem, and the higher amp version no problem. 

Also, my impression that the higher amp units were also to accommodate the people that run 2 locos from one decoder, like many battery operated airwire users. 

But we are derailing the thread... my apologies to the op... 

Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Greg, 

I don't think we disagree. We both know that the old QSI's needed higher current capabilities, and now they have it. 

Loco Lee


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