# 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log - Part 1



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I picked up my new CP #173 chassis today at GGLS. 







  Got a helluva deal on it!  It's all assembled and it runs on air (the guy I bought it from ran it while I was there).
 








 








 








 








 








 
The parts are made by Railroad Supply Corp.[/b][/b]  Here's a photo of the completed loco from their web site.
 








 
Next step - buy a boiler.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Wow! That will be a beautiful locomotive when you get it completed. Railroad Supply used to be located here in Burbank for many years until Chet Peterson sold the company. You know that loco is just chock full of lost wax castings! The original kit price for that engine for all parts was about 15K to 18K bucks! They are great running engines! Now you've joined us Big Boys. You are going to love it. There are a number of boiler builders in California. You should not have any problems getting the boiler built. Just the cost factor! Welcome to the club.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Uh,...Dwight? Think you'll need a bit more track? 

Looks good, though. 


Steve


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight,
does this new toy keep the Falk in storage forever? But nevertheless congratulations to your start into a new world!

Regards


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Yes definitely congratulations Dwight, just one question you did get a truss right??? Cause that's going to get very heavy quickly.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

does this new toy keep the Falk in storage forever?
No - the Falk doesn't need lots of money to finish.  Actually, Charlie gave me a new cab for my Falk today, and he brought his along for me to look at. She's actually next on my list of "things to do."


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Nice score Dwight! They finish into a very nice, good running engine. You should be happy with it.


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Hi Dwight,

That's a nice looking chassies you have there. Your off to a great start on your GENERAL build!!! 

Chuck


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

There are a number of boiler builders in California. You should not have any problems getting the boiler built.
Can you provide a few names and some way of contacting them? I'm looking for someone reputable who can build it to the correct dimensions so the RRSC jacket, smokebox, etc. will fit properly. Also, the RRSC drawings don't feature detail drawings - just a plan view. As I haven't yet received my drawing packet (had to order it), I'm not even sure if all necessary parts such as stays are shown, so I'm looking for someone who knows boiler construction and can provide theirself with whatever they need. 

Thanks.


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

So Dwight, 

Will it be CP #173? Or NPC? Or SPC? 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Wow Dwight!! That is super cool. I'm jealous. I think I would have gone with 7 1/2 if I had any flat land to put it on. I'll be watching your progress.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Will it be CP #173? Or NPC? Or SPC?
I'll probably keep it as #173 since it's a standard gauge loco. Though I haven't really measured anything yet, I suspect the proportions are all wrong to build a narrow gauge loco out of it. From the little I've read about it, most narrow gauge locos on 7-1/2" gauge are 2.5" scale.


The beauty of scoring this is that I don't have to spend years trying to make all the critical parts myself.  I'm still a dweeb machinist after all, with very little experience under my belt, and at this point no experience whatsoever in anything larger than Fn3 or non-CNC other than a few small parts.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Hey Dwight,
That's a serious chasis you have there. Why don't you do a big version of your cab forward creation? Chasis looks close enough to me and most of what we do is an illusion anyway.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

WOW, Dwight. Way to go! And CP #173 is a good choice. It was Walt's favorite.









Two questions:

1. Will it be operational in time for the Summer Steam Up this year?  Next year?









2. How will you transport it along with your portable track? Trailer?

I'm jealous.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight,

I just sent an e-mail off to you with some info on having your boiler made. Let me know.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Why don't you do a big version of your cab forward creation? Chassis looks close enough to me and most of what we do is an illusion anyway.

I'll probably take some measurements, but even if the proportions were close, doing #21 in 2-1/2" scale would be an undertaking I'm not sure I'm willing to undertake. hehehe Besides, I also really like the looks of CP #173 and other conventional 4-4-0's, so why not build it as is? 

Two questions: 

1. Will it be operational in time for the Summer Steam Up this year? Next year? 

2. How will you transport it along with your portable track? Trailer?


1 - That depends entirely upon time and available funds. I doubt I'd bring it to the NSS, BTS, or other small-scale steamup anyway as there would be no place to run it there. 

2 - See #1. hehehe 

Hauling a trailer is something I've been trying to avoid like the plague, especially for any great distance. Besides, a hitch for my RAV is $300.00!! I'd rather put that money elsewhere.  

I just sent an e-mail off to you with some info on having your boiler made. Let me know.
Got it Gary - thanks!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight: Check out these guys for a boiler:


http://www.boschanboiler.com/index.html

They do nice work. 



Bob


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Posted By xo18thfa on 04/06/2009 4:19 PM
Dwight: Check out these guys for a boiler:


http://www.boschanboiler.com/index.html

They do nice work. 



Bob 








Paul Boschan is a very nice guy. I spent an evening with him and some other Disney fans a couple of years ago (he does boiler work for Disney). He really seems to know his stuff and would be worth a call. BTW, he used to work for Roaring Camp so you may already know him Dwight.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Thanks Bob and Dan. I'll call him.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight, another source of 1-1/2" boilers is Marty Knox, Ridge locomotive Works LLC. www.ridgeboiler.com. I can vouch for the quality of his work--he built one for me. 
Marty recently retired as the Superintendent/Master Mechanic of the Huckelberry RR in Michigan, and was responsible for the reconstruction of their 3' K 2-8-2. 

Larry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Thanks Bob for the link to Boschan Boiler. Looks like a real clean outfit. Yes and very nice work. I'm going to pass this along to people in the hobby. Thank you.


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## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

*Dwight'* *Beside the costs you have listed above, be sure to add the trips to the Chiropractor after each steam up.*


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

A buddy of mine has a 7.5" gauge boiler for a Pacific built by Boschan. It's gorgeous. You'd think it was CNC welded.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Posted By xo18thfa on 04/06/2009 4:19 PM
Dwight: Check out these guys for a boiler:


http://www.boschanboiler.com/index.html

They do nice work. 


Bob






This guy must be out of business. No response to my email and the phone number on his web site "has been disconnected and is no longer in service." /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight, I've made an inquiry for you on the status.  Will advise when I hear back.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

I received a phone call from a steam buddy of mine here in L.A. this morning. He had dealt with Borschan personally about some boiler work about two years ago. According to my friend, he is no longer doing boiler work. He is in some other line of work now.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight, when you get a boiler on the chassis, I have 1700# of WVA Pocahontas coal sitting in my backyard, possibly free for the taking. Easy to fire and smells great. 
Don't need all of it now to make 1:20 loads. 

BTW, for anyone steaming in the ride-on scales, this coal is available from The City Coalyard, in Brazil, Indiana. They will ship in 50# bags by UPS. 

Larry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

That's where we get ours! Good stuff!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Thanks Larry!  I'm still waiting on my drawing set. I ordered it almost three weeks ago. Don't know what the hold-up is. 

I'm going to start making a list of stuff I still need today - the entire tender for one thing, plus the smokebox and door, domes, etc.


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## Ray C. (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight- congratulations on your purchase. That 4-4-0 is a sweet machine.

Gary- I see you're a 'local' guy too (So Cal area). I just finished an overhaul on my "Chloe", and am thinking about re-upping my membership at LALS, after an absence of quite a few years. I'm interested in locating some high quality Poc or Welsh. Do you guys go in on a bulk purchase to knock the cost down? I priced single #50 sacks from another source, got a quote of $59 just to ship.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Ray,

The person you want to talk to about the coal and the pricing is Dan O'Brien. He owns a forging die shop in Santa Fe Springs and also builds speeders and large scale live steamers. He also has an Allen Mogul and he and I are finishing up two Allen Ten=wheelers. He is also building a third-scale Porter.
Here is the link for his shop.
http://www.railridersupply.com/

All the phone numbers you will need are there. He and I have been members for over 29 years. Mention my name and how you got the info when you talk to him. Nice guy to talk with. He has quite a large supply of POC coal stored at the shop now, I believe. I know he can help you.


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## Ray C. (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Super. I think I've met Dan before at one of the meets and saw the Porter last year, mid construction. I'm familiar with his speeders.
There's actually me and a friend, Phil Tucker, who need a good local source, so I will get hold of him early next week when I'm back in town. 
Again, thanks, and hope to meet you sometime over at the park.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 04/08/2009 6:23 PM
Posted By xo18thfa on 04/06/2009 4:19 PM
Dwight: Check out these guys for a boiler:


http://www.boschanboiler.com/index.html

They do nice work. 


Bob






This guy must be out of business. No response to my email and the phone number on his web site "has been disconnected and is no longer in service."







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Well that's a drag. I was over to my buddy's house today slobbering over his Pacific boiler. 

I wonder who does the boiler work for Little Engines


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

I've located Marty Knox and a guy right here in the area. Just need to get price quotes, Talked to RRSC today and my drawings are on the way. In the meantime, I'm probably going to order all the tender parts tomorrow along with a few odds and ends for the locomotive. I'll probably be selling my last D&RGW loco, a C-21, to help finance things.
Doncha just love it when a plan comes together?


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight, I've sent you an email.  Paul Boschan is no longer in business.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Little Engines has a 4-4-0 American in 1.5" scale. Their catalog shows the boiler as one of the modules. I wonder if it would fit a CP173?

http://www.littleengines.com/


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight, for an engine of this size, some builders use a copper boiler, although welded steel with rolled-in flues is more prevalent now. 
Just a note on copper boilers based on EARLY Little Engines design--they incorporated bronze castings that were prone to porosity and failure. I do not know the details of boilers built from the prints supplied by the current owner of LE. 

Have fun finishing your teakettle! 

Larry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight,

I built a Little Engines, 1" scale 0-4-0, side tank switch, back about 1956. I was still in Jr. Hi school. At that time their boilers were built from large copper tube (where the flues were located) and attached to a large bronze casting. The stays were cast into the firebox area. I remember the casting was very expensive, even at that time. About $120. The rear flue sheet was another casting that was turned to fit into the firebox casting. The rear flue sheet was drilled and tapped for bronze screws and then silver soldered into place. It was a pretty ingenious idea at the time. I think Paul Burch (MLS member) remembers when we were building this engine! Goes back a "few" years indeed! Larry is correct though about the porosity problem that they found after a few years of use.

This was my introduction to live steam and my Dad's machine shop and it's been "trouble" ever since.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Gary, it sounds like you and I are of the same vintage. While in HS, I lusted after that same engine. After graduation, I signed on for a toolmaker apprenticeship so I could build live steam. Made a career of the trade. 
Dwight, sorry for hijacking your thread--I'll go back outside to work on the G1 track, now that Spring is really here in VT. 

Larry


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight, sorry for hijacking your thread
No worries Larry. I've been around here long enough to expect thread drift... been guilty of it myself on many occasions.  

Update: All of the tender parts are on order. I'm told I can expect them sometime towards the end of May. My drawing set arrived yesterday, and just now during my lunch time, I went to Kinkos and made a few copies of the boiler drawings to send off for quotes. 

Interestingly enough, I received an email from Paul Boschan saying he'd provide a quote if I sent him copies of the drawings. I got a similar email from Ed Perry. I also talked to Marty Knox via phone - helluva nice guy, but he's quoting a one-year delivery. I'm going to try for something faster than that.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

You're really rolling, Dwight!    I'm glad that Paul was able to get back to you.


Way to go!


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Nice chassis Dwight,,, don't think its going to make the curves on Marks Layout though


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Going through bridges might be a problem too.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Yeah, Mark's gonna have to do some serious rework on his layout.  Guess I better start crackin' the whip.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Update: I found a (relatively) local guy at Golden Gate Live Steamers to make me a steel boiler. He works at a big shop in Lodi and has been working on the firebox and tube sheets. He sent me some progress photos today on my cell phone...

The front tube sheet...










The rear tube sheet...










and the assembled firebox with the side stays and water jacket in place...










I had to order a piece of 7-1/2" OD pipe for the rear of the boiler and that didn't get to him yet - probably Monday. At that point he should be able to finish the rear section and begin work on the transition piece.

Speaking of which, I spent a fair part of the day laying out the transition piece (for the wagon top). It is a weirtly shaped piece, as the only section where it's parallel to the front tube is right along the bottom edge. From there it flares out all around. Here's a drawing of the overall boiler shell I made a couple of weeks back...










As you can see, the smaller front tube is non-concentric with the rear tube. Now I took a lot of drafting classes back in high school, and I did drafting as part of my job for 20+ years, but we don't do this kind of stuff at work, and high school was 40+ years ago. I had to go back to a book I have that's at least that old to remember how to lay out a transition piece like this,and inevitably I ended up screwing it up and getting it wrong (like I was taught in school, I plotted it, cut it out and folded it up, and it was definitely wrong). I figured out where I made my mistake and started over again, but the day ended so I brought my work notebook home and I'll finish it this weekend.

Despite the minor setback, things are coming along very nicely I think, and it shouldn't be too long before we can take it to GGLS and give it a hydro test.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight: Looking very nice. He's doing a great job. And moving right along.

Have you run the chassis on air yet?



Bob


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

And moving right along.
Yeah, I think Jesse (the guy making the boiler) is almost as jazzed about this as I am! hehehe 
Have you run the chassis on air yet?
I haven't personally, but the gent I bought it from hooked it up to compressed air and ran it for a couple of minutes right in front of me before I bought it.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight, the boiler looks like it is coming along nicely. The fun for you will be doing all the plumbing--don't forget Cole's Power Models for Truscale pipe fittings, scale bolts and nuts, and appliances. 

Larry


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Dwight,
the title of this thread is becoming misleading! Your progress is so fast you are talking about a builder's log of a complete loco now!

Regards


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: My New 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 (chassis only)*

Good point Henner. I'll change it.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

A couple more progress shots from Jesse, my boiler maker...

Firebox tube sheet is in.










From the inside...










I also finished the aforementioned and corrected transition piece. I plotted it, folded it up and taped it together and it came out good the second time around. 



















Like Kozo does on his 1-1/2" steel boilers, this piece will be cosmetic only and won't be open to the actual pressure vessel, so we can make it out of something thin like #16 ga. CRS. That will make it a lot easier to cut out and roll up.

More pics as I get them.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

You're  really moving on this project, Dwight.  I really appreciate all of the pictures you have been posting.  There's nothing like seeing a locomotive built from the ground (almost) up!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

You're really moving on this project, Dwight.
I'm not George - Jesse is! hehehe

More updates from him...

Firebox tube sheet cleaned up...










Firebox door opening...










From the inside...










Backhead in place... 










Front tube sheet dry fit...










Transition/throat sheet...


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Jesse is now at the dry assembly phase for the parts he's made so far. I'd ordered a foot-long length of 7-1/2" O.D. pipe for the rear boiler shell last Wednesday shipped directly to him, and he was supposed to have it last Friday. However, it got held up on the shipping dock in L.A. and didn't ship until yesterday, so he won't get it until today. That's the primary holdup right now.

A few more progress photos...


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

Is Jesse going to weld nuts on the lower side of the boiler at the mud-ring to accomodate the blowdown valves? I didn't notice anything on your boiler print. I'm not sure what the CP173 used, so maybe this is a mute question. I was just thinking that before the boiler is assembled, these holes need to be drilled or you might have a problem with the chips in the mud-ring.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I'll have to take a look at the other drawings Gary and see if there is a blowdown. There are several pipe threads in there that I don't yet know what they're for.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
do you already have some track for your first steam-up next weekend????








Regards


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 
I have been lurking on your thread since you started and thought I would chime in and say how much I am enjoying watching your locomotive take shape. I am quite envious of your beautiful loco and hope to see it in operation some day. Can I assume that you will be running it at The Golden Gate live Steamers club? Or maybe Train Mtn. this summer? (I hope to be there although I won’t be able to bring my porter.) 
Joel


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Joel.  I'll definitely be running her at GGLS. And while Jesse is seemingly confident she'll be running PDQ, that's only a test run with what essentially constitutes the boiler and the frame. I'm 100% sure the loco won't be anywhere near to "finished" by summer, or even by summer's end. I won't even GET the tender parts until the end of this month at the soonest, and I just ordered other parts yesterday (domes, smokebox shell and door, reverse stand). Getting those parts probably won't happen until at least the end of June. 

All this being the case, I seriously doubt I'll be running here at Train Mountain, at least not this summer. In fact, I doubt I'll be running her much at GGLS until she's a little further along.  

SHoot, I'm still working on my cab forward, and I started her over two years ago.  

(and before someone asks, she's getting close to paint - perhaps by BTS, but perhaps not. Still solving various small problems).


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

do you already have some track for your first steam-up next weekend???
Dreamer.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Progress on the backhead...


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

There was about a one-week delay in construction, but things are back on the fast track once again.









New pics from this morning...


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

That boiler is coming along nicely. 1 1/2 scale gives a whole new meaning to large scale railroading, doesn't it?!







Wait until you can start to build rolling stock for her. Great hobby.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wait until you can start to build rolling stock for her.
Once the NSS is over, I'm going to start building the cab and cowcatcher - both from wood.







Looking forward to it!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

More progress shots from the end of today...










With the transition piece in place...


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yer really takin' this thing seriously, ain'tcha Dwight. You'll probably gonna want to include few hundred feet of 7.5 inch track at next year's ALL Gauge BTS.....   

Sure is coming right along nicely, Dwight.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Progress as of the end of today...

The front tube sheet is in...










The steam dome is in and the drypipe sort of in...










The blowdown holes are drilled and threaded...










and she's been given a coat of primer...


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## dwegmull (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 
So this one has already more paint on its boiler than the cab forward ;-)


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

So this one has already more paint on its boiler than the cab forward ;-) 
Funny... he thinks he's being funny! hehehe


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

So this one has already more paint on its boiler than the cab forward ;-) 
Funny... he thinks he's being funny! hehehe 

Yeah he thinks...... WAIT it is funny! 

sorry Dwight I couldn't resist ! 
Larry


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## dwegmull (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 05/20/2009 12:48 PM
So this one has already more paint on its boiler than the cab forward ;-) 
Funny... he thinks he's being funny!  hehehe









I'm no better: my ten year old Vermod is still not painted...


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sorry Dwight, I was thinking the same thing, but decided not to bust you about the paint. But, you have other friends for that, it seems! 

Larry


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Re: the cab forward - I've just finished making a new manifold to connect the steam gauge and whistle steam supply. The previous one I made was clogged up and my gauge was registering zero while the whistle was weak. All other problems seem to be resolved and this is the last issue. I'm going to fire her later this evening, and if the whistle and gauge work, SHE'S DONE and ready for paint. 

I haven't been adding to the Builder's Log because I knew I'd hear about the paint.  However, I've been taking some photos and have gotten a lot accomplished. There's no point in painting it until I'm finished building and satisfied with how it runs, etc. Continuing to fart with stuff after paint would most assuredly screw up said paint. 'Nuff said. 

We now return you to the main object of this thread...


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight: What's the plan for the flues? Rolled-in?

Bob


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yeah Bob - in fact, he started flue insertion today.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks like very nice rolling of the flue ends. By now, you may have heard about using gun barrel brushes for cleaning flues between runs. When buying, make sure that the bristles are really brass or bronze, and not a look-alike plastic filament, which may melt if you find it necessary to clean out a hot flue. I always cleaned flues during startup of a cold engine, but many guys prefer to do it at the end of a run. 
Have fun. 

Larry


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I don't think he's actually rolled the flues yet in this photo. I believe he intends to get them all in first, but ran out of copper tube.  

Will do on the brush Larry - thanks. Last time I was at GGLS a month or so ago, I helped prep their 1.5" scale Pacific for the day's run. I got to do exactly what you describe - i.e. clean the flues with a gun barrel brush. This particular Pacific is oil fired, but it was still sooty as ****.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That's probably as clean as those flues will ever be. He is doing a very nice job on those flues. Yes, they can become very sooty. On our Allen Mogul and both ten-wheelers, we have smoke-box throttles and with the exhaust nozzle and petticoat in place, it can become a little crowded in there!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

we have smoke-box throttles 
Are you referring to a ball valve in the smokebox? That's what we plan to do as well.
they can become very sooty.
One of the advantages of propane.  However, I'm going to go with coal, at least initially. I also came across a YouTube video of a very similar (if not indentical) locomotive... the guy is firing it on wood. I may try that as well.



Here's a couple more - same loco, same guy. Looks like he's also burning wood here.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

"Not rolled yet"--I didn't think there was the typical slight step on the ID, but wasn't sure with the flash glare on the pristine copper. 
"Sooty"-- nobody said this was a clean hobby, like golf. But, you can look forward to a film of oily (cylinder oil) cinders on your forehead--don't forget to get a steaming cap, unless you want to wear them in your hair as well. Not that I have had the experience, or cinders on the pillowcase. 
Speaking of a steaming cap, a friend at NJLS has/had a particular cap that he always wore when running his 1-1/2" steamers. The engineer's blue-white pinstripe became totally lost under the crust (far beyond the film stage) of oily soot. But, that hat was his trademark, as we all knew. Unfortunately, his wife did not appreciate the significance and, without asking him first, ran it through the wash. He was genuinely upset with her--talk of a live steamer being 
'steamed". 

Larry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The throttles we used are Railroad Supply probably 25 years old now. The Mogul was purchased used from a man in Arkansas in 1980. The engine was a few years old then. They are great throttles. The original blueprints actually show a steam dome throttle (prototype). The kit I built came that way with the castings for the steam dome throttle. I made it and never installed it because I was concerned about maintenance problems over the years.

We fire with coal also. Use wood soaked in kerosene to get the fire started and then add the coal. Works great!


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I tried firing my 4-4-0 with cut-up hickory slabs. something about the smoke caused my eyes to sting, even with glasses. Didn't try it with other woods. The smoke from Pocahontas coal smells sweet. 
For starting a coal fire, I marinated small pieces of pine lumber in kerosene. Kept the jar filled and with my steamup tools. With a deep, narrow firebox as your engine has, my procedure was: a shovel or two of coal on the grates; a good layer of pine, dripping with kero; a top layer of coal up to the bottom of the firebox door, with some kero-soaked paper on top. The dripping kero gets into the coal and everything starts burning when the top paper is ignited. The wood burns down quickly, but by then the layers of coal are on their way. 
You will need a stack blower during this initial procedure to provide draft until the steam blower can be used. Mine, as most, was made from an old vacuum cleaner motor, with a speed control added. Another project for you. 

Larry


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The guy who's making my boiler was talking about an extra valve connected to the blower tube on one and and a compressed air fitting on the other to provide draft until the steam pressure is up and the blower can take over. Sounds like a plan. I guess that's fairly common at GGLS. He was also talking about some other sort of fan, but it was hard to visualize what he was describing over the phone... for me at least. 

Re: the special dirty hat - funny story.







Some people feel that way about their 20 year old brown stained coffee mugs too. hehehe Don't worry... I have an engineer's hat - a couple of them in fact. Had 'em for 20+ years. Luckily, my head (unlike my stomach) hasn't gotten any bigger in the interim.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The throttles we used are Railroad Supply probably 25 years old now.
Hmmmmm... the throttle on my 4-4-0 drawings (a Railroad Supply loco) is sort of a big needle valve assembly located just below the steam dome. We're not going to do that, and instead will go with a ball valve in the smokebox.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Railroad Supply should still show it in their catalog.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Re: compressed air for draft. I also made a blower tube that fit down the stack, with a valve to regulate and hose fitting for club air on steaming bay. For steaming up where there was no air, like at my former home track, the fan was necessary. So, do both. 
Gary and I will try to break you in right. 

Larry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

On our Mogul, we have an air quick-disconnect (just like you would use in a shop for an air hose-male fitting to be specific) located at the front left side of the boiler tube. This allows us to use the blower valve in the cab, to control the air or steam coming through the blower ring on the nozzle in the smoke box for draft. When we fired up at Goleta Depot to run, we used an inexpensive vacuum motor and "squirrel cage on the stack, for temporary draft. They had no air available there. It works-its just quite a bit slower to build pressure. These boilers are much larger than your American boiler.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The quick-disconnect for the air supply was just what the guy was describing (although I think he also mentioned a separate valve). I'll talk to him about it, 'cause with the quick disconnect, as you say, one valve should be sufficient.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

New progress pics from this evening...

The mud ring is in the the boiler pretty well sealed up...










All the flues are in - not sure if they're expanded yet. The rear tubesheet in the firebox...










The front tube sheet. The throttle ball valve is also in, at least temporarily until we get the smokebox and stack on and see what works.
The valve handle is the one that came with the valve and will be replaced.










In the previous shot and this one, you can also see the forward running board brackets are on. They bolt into 1/4" thick threaded pads 
welded to the boiler shell. There's still two more sets to go on the rear.










The backhead is nearing completion. Still needed are a fire door and the throttle lever and pivot clevis.










He made a throttle lever out of stainless and polished it up real nice. 










We're coming down to the wire. I'll be picking it up real soon!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wednesday I met my boilermaker up at GGLS where we hydro-tested the boiler to 200psi. I then paid the man, loaded the boiler in my car and brought it home (actually it's sitting in my office right now along with the chassis).




























BTW, the flat black ring near the front (I knew someone would ask  ) is adhesive from where he had taped over the check valve mounting holes to do some leak and minimal pressure testing. I'd ordered the check valves, reducers, nipples, and 5/16MPT tap from Coles, but they hadn't arrived yet.

Still waiting on parts from RRSC, including the smokebox and mounting ring, without which I can't even mount the boiler.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

Outstanding looking boiler! It really starts to take shape when you add all the little goodies.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Uuuu. Ball valve in the smokebox for a throttle with reach rod to the back head. That looks interesting


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Uuuu. Ball valve in the smokebox for a throttle with reach rod to the back head. That looks interesting
Yeah, I had several members of GGLS recommend I go that route. Seems it's a favoured method - easier, little to no maintenance, less expensive, etc.


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## insanerocketkid (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

In regards to cleaning flues - we had a locomotive or two with copper flues at the Wabash, Frisco, and Pacific -- and a few years back we adopted the policy of nylon flue brushes on the flues (note: copper flues), since we didn't want to scratch or otherwise promote corrosion of the boiler flues. We also clean our boilers first thing in the morning before we fire up. If we get a clogged flue, then you may be a little stuck -- another alternative is to clean your flues while running - a little sand in the firebox door while you are working hard (creating hard, hot, strong draft). 

Just something to think about. Also - what size is your throttle valve piping? If it's 3/8", consider a gate valve from Joe Tanski (you'll find him on Chaski) - he has several available, and they are much easier to operate (they require approx 20 deg of operation to get a fully open throttle, vs 90 deg for a ball valve - which you may find somewhat complicated to set up the throttle linkage with). 

Mike


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Mike.  At this point, I'm still a totally inexperienced newbie here, but the guy who built my boiler built his own locomotive (including boiler). I saw it run and it worked great. The throttle valve he used on mine is the same one he used on his own locomotive, and the same many other GGLS members use. Luckily, it's easily accessible, and easy to change out later if I decide based upon actual experience that something else may be preferable. 

Good suggestion on the nylon brush! Hadn't thought of flue scoring.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I finally got my first box of parts from RRSC today. Unfortunately, I'm too damn sick to even open it.









I came down with some sort of flu on Monday afternoon, and it totally knocked me on my butt. I haven't been to work since Monday, and I'm STILL sick! Now the wife has it too.







She stayed home today.

I've coughed so much that my abs feel like I did 20,000 crunches. My head hurts, I have a fever, I'm dizzy, and it's all I can do just to walk down the hall. In short I feel like a wrung out dishrag.

Things are improving, albiet slowly. The cough is almost gone, and the fever is lower than it was.

Hopefully, tomorrow I'll break open the box and post some photos of the goodies.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 
Sorry to hear about you sickness. Get well soon! Any idea what ir was? BTW, David bought the Alice from Cliff. 
Regards


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, sorry to hear about the sickness. Drink plenty of fluids (your choice) and get well soon. Do you have the 'swine flu'? No further comments... 


Henner, so David bought the Alice after all?  That's good. Alice looked very nice. And thanks again for the little project.


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## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By insanerocketkid on 19 Jun 2009 09:00 PM 
what size is your throttle valve piping? If it's 3/8", consider a gate valve from Joe Tanski (you'll find him on Chaski) - he has several available, and they are much easier to operate (they require approx 20 deg of operation to get a fully open throttle, vs 90 deg for a ball valve - which you may find somewhat complicated to set up the throttle linkage with). 

Mike 

Guys a gate valve is not a good choice for a throttle valve. The rule for a gate valve is fully open or fully closed. Throttling a gate valve will erode the seat faces and shorten the service life of the valve.

The advantage of a gate valve is that there is no restriction when fully open, so it is common in long pipe lines as on a tanker to select different tanks from a manifold.

This is from Marine Engineering 101.
Cheers Dan


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## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Mike, 
I just realized that you said that the gate valve only took 20 deg. for full travel....we must be talking about a different type of valve. Gate valves are either rising stem or threaded gate, but either way they take many turns to fully open. They have a wedge gate and matching seat which is the surface that gets wire drawn by throttling. 

Is the valve you are refering to operated by a lever not a threaded stem? I have seen this type of valve used as a prototypical outside throttle valve on the early Shays. 
Cheers Dan


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Little Engines also show the use of the standard ball valves for a throttle also. Happened to just be looking over the 1.5" 0-6-0 drawings on Thursday.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I finally got around to opening the box of parts I got last week.  Here are the goodies...
 








 
The steam and sand domes castings/barrells/etc.
 








 
Front L-R: Smokebox, smokebox front, number plate, headlight casting and detail parts, headlight brackets.
Rear L-R: Smokestack, petticoat, reverse quadrant, pilot braces.
 








 
Close-up of smokebox assy and headlight.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

Those are very crisp and clean castings. Railroad Supply Corporation was always known for beautiful castings. Really starting to look like a locomotive now! THX for the update.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Very nice, Dwight. You are really moving along on this. What is the projected 'fire it up' date?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

What is the projected 'fire it up' date?When it's finished! hehehe 

Actually I have no idea at this point. The throttle ball valve is interfering with the smokestack, so modifying that is the first order of business. I have to make the grate, ash pan, and rear boiler support, and a couple of sheet metal shells that slip between the firebox sides and the frame, and then I can mount the boiler. I need to make the boiler jacket and bands and apply the lagging and then I can start some basic steam plumbing. Still a HUGE amount to do before I can even think of firing for the first time.


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

It looks like the continuation of a great project with the fantastic goodies. 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I just helped a friend load his 7 1/2" gauge 2-8-0 Consolidation into his van along with two steel gondola riding cars. I'll stick to Gauge 1 thanks.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

*Saga of a Locomotive Cart:*

A couple of months back I designed what I thought would be a cool little locomotive cart upon which to build, store, and roll around my locomotive (a second cart will be required for the tender). The original idea was to make it from steel rectangular tube with four telescoping legs. There would be a small hydraulic jack in the center allowing the loco to be raised/lowered 7" to match it to the height of the transport vehicle when it was time to load it up. The telescoping legs would hold the top in alignment with the bottom.

I drew up some plans, bought the material from McMaster, and made all the pieces. One thing (among many) I don't know how to do is weld, so I had to send it out to get assembled. That turned the whole project into one long exercise in frustration!









The pieces were picked up on 09/03. Four weeks went by before I finally got the cart on 10/01... and they'd screwed it up!









Despite a full set of drawings I prepared especially for them (and I did this for a living for over 20 years), despite an overall assembly drawing showing the top fitting into the bottom, and despite notes on several sheets expressly and specifically calling out that the top section legs had to telescope into the bottom section legs and be capable of sliding up and down, and therefore the indicate joints had to be 90* and true, there was a 3/16" difference lengthwise between the top leg spacing and the bottom leg spacing. While it was possible to get the top into the bottom via flexure in the legs, it required a lot of force to get it in or out.

Another couple of days was wasted in trying to figure out if it was salvageable. Our head fab guy at work and I thought of cutting the bottom apart at the two lower lengthwise horizontal support tubes, realigning the top with the bottom, and welding the tubes back together. After a closer look, the legs were off in spacing in the other direction as well, though not as bad. We abandoned that idea.

Meanwhile, I have the chassis, boiler, and other parts on a counter in my second-story office. I couldn't really start assembly as once I mounted the boiler to the chassis, the assembly would be waaaayyyy too heavy for two guys to carry down the stairs (there is no elevator).

Finally, on Friday night as I was brooding on things, one of my boss' old sayings dawned on me: _*"There are elegant ways of doing things, and there are adequate ways of doing things." *_ I always tend to go for the elegant way. However, in this case, I was wasting bookoo time on the stupid cart and not spending that time building my locomotive. When that little tidbit hit me, I decided to forget the jack, forget the adjustable height, drill a hole through each telescoping section, put a screw through it, and forget it.

This morning I went to the shop and did just that, setting the height to work with the rear cargo area of my car, a RAV4 - and here's the result... taaaa-daaaaa!!!!!!!! The once elegant, now merely adequate, one-of-a-kind 7-1/2" gauge locomotive cart...




























Once that was done, I got a guy to help me carry the chassis down and got it onto the cart...










After that, I actually (and finally) got some work done on the locomotive itself. I'd had a buddy make a ring to mate the smokebox to the boiler front (my lathes aren't large enough). I aligned these with the boiler front and drilled holes for the 24 rivets that will mount the ring to the smokebox and got the rivets installed. The guy who made the boiler forgot to put the three countersunk holes near the front to mount this ring. Doing it now presented somewhat of a problem as the boiler is too big to fit on the drill press table and is also heavier on one end, and I certainly didn't want to drill through 1/2" pipe with a handheld drill. Luckily, we have two drill presses at work with a table between them. I was able to support the firebox on the table, then raise the drill press table until the front was supported and level, so I got those holes drilled and countersunk as well.

I have a little more work to do on the smokebox and then it's ready to mount on the chassis. After that I can align and mount the boiler via the smokebox. I have to make a rear boiler support, but it's just a rectangular piece of steel with two drilled holes. Then it's on to plumbing the steam lines feeding the cylinders, insulating the boiler and making the jacket and bands, and plumbing the crosshead pump water supply lines

At last some actual progress!!! Barring further problems, more photos next week!


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I'm still waiting to see what happens when you roll that engine OFF the cart into the RAV....still think things are gonna shift in height...a lot. Also...a C clamp or two on the "rails" of the cart might keep your engine from rolling off the end. Still very impressed with your new endeavor. We got a pool going on when it will get painted....


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, There are drill presses which have a magnetic base which clamps them right to the piece being drilled. We had one where I worked and they are very handy for drilling things that won't fit in a drill press. Not sure where you might find one so I guess this is not very helpful! I guess it doesn't much matter since you solved the problem. Just a thought for possible future reference.


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## trainmax (Feb 16, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I rented a magnetic drill there not to hard to find make some calls


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the tip on the magnetic drill press guys. I'll check it out the next time I face a sinilar situation. 

Mikey - you're right... I'd already thought of the c-clamps. As to height, there will be a "bridge section" a foot long or so hinged to one end of the cart rails (angles) that should allow for slight height variations. As to paint, if you'll notice, everything so far is already painted! hehehe


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

With my experience with loading and unloading my ten-wheler and P.E. electric locos, you might think about making the bridge section a little longer than a foot or so. Make sure there is a definite way to lock the bridge securely to your rack. Let's just say I know this from some "experience". He. He. It is unbelievable how unwieldly a large and heavy loco can become. My ten-wheeler is 500# and the electric is around 400#. You CP 173 will probably be in the 375# to 425# range. Once they start to fall, there is no stopping them. They may be big and heavy, but they are also fraglie. You'll find this out with your first derailment. And believe me, this WILL happen (also previous experience). Will the tender be dis-connected when you transport?

Here's a little story about unloading my electric at home after a long Sunday at Los Angeles Live Steamers. It was in the fall and starting to lose light, when I arrived home. I was in a hurry to get everything put away on the other racks in the garage. Backed the car down the driveway and then brought my 10 foot rack up to the rear of the car. Now this rack is a movable rack vertically. Will go from ground level to about 42 inches. All done by hand cranks on BOTH ends and geared down to lift the weight with ease. BOTH cranks have positive locking devices on them AND pins on the track to lock it to the vertical frame. Well.......I was in too big a rush to use the safety devices and was holding the crank as I pushed the rack AWAY from the car. The locomotive started to move very, very slowly toward me and I put the other hand down to stop it. The hand holding the crank slipped and the handle then hit the top of my head and I was out for a second. The engine had only dropped about 18 inches. I was bleeding from my scalp and my imagination took over then. Actually it wasn't bad at all-no stitches and no concussion. AND thankfully, no damage to the engine!

You have to handle these models when you are alert and not hurried. USE all the safety items you build into your loading equipment. I had unloaded these engines hundreds of times and no problems. It just takes ONCE. Don't take anything for granted. These models are deceiving in the damage they can cause. Now off my soapbox.

That rack is looking good. BTW, we used magnetic drill presses on some of our very large die blocks to do some work when we didn't want to tie-up our radiqal drill presses. They work great and come in all sizes.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the tips Gary. I have no idea how much she'll weigh when finished, but I know what I have is heavy already. hehehe That's the reason I want to assemble it on the cart, and why it was so frustrating having to wait for it 'cause I really couldn't move forward.
The tender will be disconnected for storage and transport, and will have its own shorter cart. Once I get the parts (I was supposed to have them by the end of May







) I'll know how long to make the cart.

Actually, this whole project so far has been one big exercise in frustration.


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## dwegmull (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 
When the time comes to assemble the tender cart, I can do the welding for you...


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the offer David. I'll take you up on it when the time comes. I was going to ask you to weld up this one, but then thought rather than impose, I'd just send it out to the shop that makes enclosures, etc. for my company. BIG mistake!!


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## Ray C. (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By gary Armitstead on 04 Oct 2009 12:50 PM 
Dwight,

With my experience with loading and unloading my ten-wheler and P.E. electric locos, you might think about making the bridge section a little longer than a foot or so. Make sure there is a definite way to lock the bridge securely to your rack. Let's just say I know this from some "experience". He. He. It is unbelievable how unwieldly a large and heavy loco can become. My ten-wheeler is 500# and the electric is around 400#. You CP 173 will probably be in the 375# to 425# range. Once they start to fall, there is no stopping them. They may be big and heavy, but they are also fraglie. You'll find this out with your first derailment. And believe me, this WILL happen (also previous experience). Will the tender be dis-connected when you transport?



Hi Dwight, 
I want to second what Gary says. I too have quite a bit of experience loading/ inloading large scale equipment on the home end. I have a couple of wooden pallets specifically designed for tying down and transporting my various (3) locomotives. I would suggest a bridge piece at least a good 20" long. You can lay it over your tailgate and block/ shim it as needed to increase/ decrease height. Also the added length will help decrease the angle of approach somewhat. Your vehicle will likely dip somewhat as the load shifts from your stand on to your tailgate. This can create clearance problems in some cases, depending on your locomotive. I have a Chloe, with very limited clearance on the cylinder drain cocks. Naturally, you don't want to damage those.
Also, make sure your bridge piece has some positive locking device to the stand; I use a couple of 1/4" bolts, mounted loose enough to allow for some vertical movement, but tight enough to keep it from slipping away or tipping.

In addition, I have adapted one of those Northern Tool hydraulic jack lift tables where I can load/ offload onto that, then adjust ht. to roll equipment on to the stand. Just another way of doing it, which allows me to load onto different vehicles.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I was hoping to have new photos to post today. I got the smokebox mounted and a few other odds and ends done. I'm currently working on her at my company as it has all the larger shears, brakes, and other machines I need. Saturday I came in, fully intending to have the boiler mounted by the time I left, and ran into a major snag. The firebox is 1/4" too long causing it not to fit between the rear driver journals and the front axle eccentrics for the valve gear. On top of that, the front of the boiler is 1/2"-9/16" too short, so it doesn't join up with the smokebox.

The long and short of things is I have to send the boiler back to my boilermaker for corrections. It isn't going to cost me anything and he's committed to making it right, but it'll probably cause another two-three week delay. On the plus side, it will also give him a chance to correct a couple of places where the RRSC drawings were wrong, saving me time and effort when it comes time to mount the domes.

One step forward and two steps back. Rats!!!


----------



## terry_n_85318 (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Welcome to the 7 1/2" world! Same thing with my shay. 

Terry


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

A quick update... if all goes according to plan, I'll be driving to Las Vegas this weekend to acquire my new boiler. I'm taking my chassis with me along with all the other parts I have. The plan is to have the boiler all tacked together by the time I arrive. We'll then test-fit it and make sure everything is okay, at which point we'll pull it out and Jesse will weld it up and roll in the tubes. We'll then re-install it and plumb the steam lines and crosshead pumps.








If all goes well, we'll have fired it on coal and run the loco (stationary) by the time I return the following weekend (after Thanksgiving).









Then it will be on to making the boiler jacket, running boards, etc. and mounting the domes and headlight, pilot braces, and other odds and ends. Perhaps over Christmas vacation (two weeks) I can get quite a ways along in making the wood cab and finishing the backhead.


Still haven't received any parts yet for the tender.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sounds like a full plate there Dwight. The pressure is on. 

Stay away from The Strip buddy. You are on a mission. Focus dude, focus.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Stay away from The Strip buddy. You are on a mission. Focus dude, focus. That won't be hard Bob. Never been much into gambling anyway.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sounds like a plan Dwight. Hope all goes well.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sounds like a plan DwightWhat's that about "the best laid plans..."?


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hopefully "Mr. Murphy" has already come and gone!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The plan is to have the boiler all tacked together by the time I arrive.Well, we all know the old saying about "the best laid plans..."







However, on the bright side, I'm getting the opportunity to see how these larger parts are made. My machining experience is limited, and that mostly to my small Sherline lathe and milling machine. It's been a real education to observe how things are done on full-sized equipment... how parts are laid out and indexed to the work table and how the actual machining operations are performed. In that spirit, I'm posting some "in process" photos for those members who also find this stuff interesting.

Making the front and rear tubesheets...

At this point the tubesheet blanks are already cut, the firebox welded together, and the center two flue holes drilled and reamed. Two plugs have been machined that precisely fit into these two holes, and via which the blanks are held together and aligned.









An overall shot of Jesse drilling and reaming the tubesheets.









Here the next hole, which is already laid out on a surface place, is being indexed with a wiggler. The two plugs can be seen at center. The brass tube at lower center
is a precisely turned go-no go gauge plug used to test each hole once finished.









The hole is center drilled.









A pilot hole is then drilled...









then enlarged...


















and finally reamed to final size in a two-step process using two different reamers, the second 0.002" larger than the first. As one can imagine, this is a time consuming 
process with 20 holes to machine.

The finished firebox prior to grinding down and cleaning up the welds...









The front containing the front tube sheet...









and the rear with the firebox door.









The mostly finished front tubesheet and firebox door extension.

Next, work begins on the outer section of the boiler forming the tubular rear section of the wagontop which will house the firebox.

Again, the four holes needed are already laid out on the surface plate - three 1/8 NPT holes to mount the steam dome casting and one to pick up the turret.









Each threaded hole is again indexed with the wiggler, center drilled, and tap drilled...









Then tapped right on the milling machine.









The large hole for the actual steam dome pipe is indexed and drilled the same way, and the hole enlarged with successively larger drills...









and mills.









The hole is bored to final size in successive passes removing 0.050" at a pass - another time consuming process.









Finally, the unneeded bottom section of the tube is cut out with a slit saw on a horizontal milling machine. For safety reasons, the cut is stopped 1/4" short of the tube's
end so the saw blade doesn't "catch" and create problems.









Jesse finishes the cuts on the bandsaw.









The blanks for the backhead and firebox side walls.

More as things progress today.


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Very cool machining pictures


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Jesse has a nice shop. Cool older machinery. Those machines are "bullet-proof". You're gettin' close!


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

A great set of construction photos, Dwight. It's really interesting to see the machine shop steps to build this. Keep posting update photos.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the pics of the process. Very interesting and informative. Keep em coming. Later RJD


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It's a pleasure to see work being done in a manual shop using pre-CNC techniques, a dying art. I know, I'm a relic, I admit it! 
One thing about the pics does bother me--I hope Jesse wears safety glasses when not having his picture taken, an important thing for home hobbyists to remember. 

Larry


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Larry, 

Not jack the thread (like it would even be possible to high jack this one), you raise a vallid point regarding eye wear. My girlfriend and I watch a lot of building and car shows, and we are always miffed by the fact we never see them being used


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for posting these Dwight. It is great to see how this kind of thing is done. Our Gauge 1 stuff is a total different operation.

Please keep us informed.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It's a pleasure to see work being done in a manual shop using pre-CNC techniques, a dying art.I agree Larry!! Jesse's partner Don has been a journeyman machinist for over 45 years (or thereabouts). The guy is amazing! The adaptor ring which mounts the boiler front to the smokebox was made to size for the original boiler. The new boiler's front tube will be made from a piece of tubing that's been honed (I think it was intended for use as a hydraulic cylinder). It's ID is slightly larger than the old one, and the adaptor ring is already riveted to the smokebox. Rather than remove it, Don turned a thin bushing from another piece of tube. The damn bushing has an ID of around 5.50" and is probably less than 0.030" THICK. I couldn't believe it!! If I tried that, the lathe tool would tear through the material in a heartbeat! I think the guy sometimes amazes God!! hehehe

Cool older machinery. Those machines are "bullet-proof".Agreed! He has a couple of old Hardinge lathes unlike anything made in the USA today. One of them came from a WWII era shipyard - cool machine capable of BIG work!

Lots of fabrication was done today, but on a few parts, and not much assembly - hence not many photos. Plus I left early, and they were still working when I did. Jesse made the front throat sheet and worked on the firebox sides. He also worked on the backhead, milling out the firebox door cutout.

Here's a couple of shots of the 6" hole being bored to accept the front tube...



















In the meantime, I got to work cleaning up and buffing the headlight bracket rough bronze castings. Lotsa work with a series of files and some emery cloth. Gave me something to do.



























They aren't perfect because there were some voids in the castings which, in order to get out, I'd have had too remove too much material. Overall I'm happy with them and I plan to have them bright brass plated.

Just got this from Jesse via picture message on my phone - assembly begins on the boiler rear section...










He says we'll weld it up tomorrow. Hopefully, the boiler will be done tomorrow and we'll hydro-test it and then mount it and hook it up. Hopefully we'll be firing it for the first time by Thanksgiving!


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking great dwight. So when are you goign to buy some bigger machinery? Its addicting. I just picked up a Clausing Mill. About a 1/2 scale Bridgeport. 

On the headlamp castings if they are going to be plated why not fill in the blems with some solder or braze


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Always nice to see an expert at work.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking great dwight. So when are you going to buy some bigger machinery? Its addicting. I just picked up a Clausing Mill. About a 1/2 scale Bridgeport.Thanks Jason. It is addicting. Unfortunately, I have no room for large equipment. I do have a Prazi SD-400 7.5 x 16 benchtop lathe and BF-400 milling head...









and before I left, I was looking at buying a Wabeco F1210E CNC benchtop milling machine...








Much will depend upon funds and how much I spend here.










On the headlamp castings if they are going to be plated why not fill in the blems with some solder or brazeGood idea - I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Progress as the end of yesterday:

Here's the finished throat sheet after boring (previous post)...










The firebox and backhead...










The firebox section takes shape...



















Jesse popped me out a cool little blower nozzle...










While Jesse was working on the boiler, Don had looked with disapproval on the cheesy smokestack bottom supplied by RRSC...










He said he could make me an entirely new section if I wanted, so I took him up on it. He popped out a really nice turning to replace the section in the above photo. 

To cut the curved saddle section that fits against the smokebox, he used the horizontal mill and a big fly cutter...





































When I left last night, he'd finished this operation and turned off the remainder of the barrel (the part clamped in the chuck above), and was busy shaping the top of the saddle that fits against the smokebox.

Jesse is down at the shop making the front tube as I type this. Once that's done and welded on and the front tube sheet welded in, it's on to rolling in the tubes, and installing the mud ring. If all goes well, we'll fire her today.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

I'm looking forward to hearing how the firing goes today. Got your bottle of champayne ready?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Today's Update:

Well, Thursday's come and gone and still no fire in the boiler.







Jesse and I were there until 6:30 tonight. We are sooooo close, but it was finally time to call it a night (after all, it *is* Thanksgiving).

Today's photos:

The holes in the front tube were laid out and drilled just like the others. This tube was finished and welded in place early this evening.










Meanwhile, Don was working on the smokestack. He rough-shaped it yesterday with a ball end mill...










and this morning, finished shaping it...










with a small grinder and an assortment of hand files. I was hoping he'd pass on some great secret of black art for machining something like this. Alas, even the masters have to sometimes resort to crude hand tools, manual effort, and plain ol' sweat. hehehe

As for me, I busied myself part of the day with buffing and polishing the cylinder covers. Here's a couple before and afters...



















I also chucked the rough bell casting up in the small Southbend lathe and shaped it with some files, and did some buffing on it as well. I still need to put some more time in on it so it's real pretty.







I also worked on the bell mount (stirrup?).

What remains tomorrow... Don has some finishing touches on the throttle body while Jesse finishes putting in the mud ring, mounts the ash pan and grate, and finishes the fire door. Once the throttle body is done, that can be installed and the front tube sheet welded in. Then we can roll in the tubes and hydro-test. Then make the wagon-top transition piece,mount the boiler, and fire that sucker.

Tomorrow is D-Day. I have to leave here Saturday morning as I sure don't want to drive home Sunday when everyone else is returning from Thanksgiving weekend. Besides, it's nine straight hours of driving to get home, and I'd like a day to rest up before having to go back to work. Sure wish I was retired! Having to work is *soooooo inconvenient!*


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Awsome images of the machining, Dwight. Sorry to hear that you didn't get her fired. However, you should be real proud of your "baby".


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

.... Sure wish I was retired! Having to work is *soooooo inconvenient!* 
Dwight, I totally can relate to that. I am eagerly following the progress of your big one. Currently I am working on the engine of my ride-on Heisler. Lots of bad surprises, but no showstoppers so far. I might open a thread about the restoration.

Regards


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, you did a nice job of polishing those cylinder covers. They look really beautiful!

Henner, It would be nice to see a thread on your restoration, also. Hint, hint.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 26 Nov 2009 09:38 PM 
Today's Update:

...... Sure wish I was retired! Having to work is *soooooo inconvenient!* 
When you are retired, everyday is Monday.

Looking great Dwight. Pls keep the updates coming.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By xo18thfa on 27 Nov 2009 07:20 PM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 26 Nov 2009 09:38 PM 
Today's Update:

...... Sure wish I was retired! Having to work is *soooooo inconvenient!* 
When you are retired, everyday is Monday.

Looking great Dwight. Pls keep the updates coming. 



MONDAY??!?!?!?!? OOOOooo ICK! No, No, No!

At the least "everyday is Saturday", 

Or maybe Tuesday (remember, if Monday is dreaded because it is the first day back to work after a weekend, then Tuesday must be the best day, since it will be a whole 'nother 6 days before it is Monday again!).


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Great stuff!! Sorry you didn't get to steam it.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It's looking real good Dwight. Take a few photos of the whole engine...as you add parts to it...or set them next to the frame. I'm impressed with your vacation's accomplishments....very impressed. You've hooked up with some good machinists.


----------



## Bob Starr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks great Dwight! Makes me wish I was still machining!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the encouragement guys!









Jesse and I were down at the shop until 20 to 9 last night, the last couple of hours spent fighting two flues. All the other tubes are rolled in, but the top two on the outer edge of the firebox are inaccessible with the tools we had. Working on these things is sometimes just like working on a car - it always takes six times longer than you thought it would, you never have the right tools, and there's always one or two bolts you just can't get to with what you have.









On the bright side, I just got a text from Jesse saying he'd found another way to roll those tubes and he had one done.







Guess it sometimes *does* pay to sleep on it. hehehe

Here's what the boiler looked like yesterday around lunchtime...










it's 22.625" long btw...










On the other bright side, Don finished my smokestack section...










Here's a close-up of the section he made...










The cleanout plug is a RRSC casting. Compare this with the previous shot of the piece of crap supplied by RRSC...










He's one helluva machinist!! I've already learned a huge amount just by standing around watching these two in action!

Gotta hit the shower and get down there. More later.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

These guys know their business! Wow it won't be long now! Lookin' great.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 27 Nov 2009 08:22 PM 
Posted By xo18thfa on 27 Nov 2009 07:20 PM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 26 Nov 2009 09:38 PM 
Today's Update:

...... Sure wish I was retired! Having to work is *soooooo inconvenient!* 
When you are retired, everyday is Monday.

Looking great Dwight. Pls keep the updates coming. 



MONDAY??!?!?!?!? OOOOooo ICK! No, No, No!

At the least "everyday is Saturday", 

Or maybe Tuesday (remember, if Monday is dreaded because it is the first day back to work after a weekend, then Tuesday must be the best day, since it will be a whole 'nother 6 days before it is Monday again!).





I am working harder in retirement than I ever did when I really worked. That second cup of coffee in the morning while reading the paper is tough.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Today's update:

*







SUCCESS!!!!! *









It took us until 9:00 PM tonight, but we ran her on steam tonight!! We didn't get out of there until after 10:00. Here's how the day progressed...

The boiler just prior to hydro-test...










There were a few leaks here and there, but nothing that couldn't be fixed. A couple of tubes had to be re-rolled (luckily, not the inaccessible ones).
Here Jesse patches a couple of firebox stays with leaking welds...










Meanwhile,I was sanding the grinding marks out of the steam dome cap and filing the headlight chimney casting to clean it up, and Don was working on match-drilling 
the headlight brackets. Here, the boiler is finally tentatively set into place...










The backhead has been fitted out...



















and she's finally ready for firing...










and the proof is in the pudding (or in this case, the coal smoke)!!!!!


















A nice hot coal fire!










I took movies, but I'm too tired to convert and post them tonight, so I'll post them tomorrow.

What remains to be done:
[*]Make and attach the wagon top transition piece.[*]Make and weld on the mounting pads for the running boards.[*]Permanently mount the boiler to the smokebox and frame.[*]A few other minor odds and ends.[/list] In the meantime... *SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!! *









More tomorrow.


----------



## trainmax (Feb 16, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

*Dwight welcome to the hight rail. Looks good your doing a grate job. *

Hey Larry you have a phone number for getting the coal?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks like the damn movie camcorder crapped out... *AGAIN!!!*







I just had that sucker fixed too!! Time to deep-six the thing and get another one.









I'll get some new movies today using my other camera if we run her again. I realized this morning I don't have the conversion software loaded on this laptop anyway, so it will be later in the week before I can post them.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The last two pictures are for the ages! Outatanding photos for those not ifamiliar with large scale steamers showing the tremendous amount of work that goes into one of these gems.


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight--was the inaugural firing with the Pocahontas? 

W VA Pocahontas steam coal, available by UPS from: 

City Coal Yard--Pauline & Davis Wise 
116 N Depot St 
Brazil, IN 47834 
812-448 8128 

Larry


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
there is a rumor they have laid a 7 1/2" gauge track all the way from Vegas to Milpitas !? Anyway, congratulation on the successful first steaming! BTW, a friend of mine built an adapter truck for his ride-on loco with a variable gauge between 2' and SG. He rode his loco on abandoned 1:1 lines. Lots of fun and many incredible stories. 
Regards


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Congratulations on your first firing. Now I want to see your engine fit into your RAV. And...here I thought you loaded it big when you went to the BTS. Sure looks like you had a good Thanksgiving...


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

My son and I went to the shop yesterday and met Dwight, Jesse and Don and checked out the work. Dwight's pictures do not give justice to what's going on. Those guys are doing some really serious work and the quality is fabulous. For example, the out wrapper of the boiler started out as 8" heavy 3/8" wall pipe. They cut a section out and shaped it down to 7" diameter on a press brake that could probably fold a battleship in half. Then trued it up on a lathe. The lathe cut was so clean, like a mirror. The bulge on the upper part of the fire box done the same way. Both sides, plus a spare/practice came out perfectly identical. Jesse's welding is like artwork.

Dwight's engine is going to be sweet when it's done.

Hey, Dwight, I will do a custom wood cab for you. Any wood, any style, any finish.


Andy and I had a great time hanging out with you guys, chewing the fat. There was so much to learn, just watching. Thanks

Bob


----------



## dwegmull (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 
This is awesome! However, I can't help but notice this locomotive is not yet painted ;-) (You knew this was coming, right?)


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Andy and I had a great time hanging out with you guys, chewing the fat. There was so much to learn, just watching. ThanksLikewise Bob!! It's always a pleasure to meet fellow MLSers - especially fellow live steam MLSers. I will do a custom wood cab for you. Any wood, any style, any finish.Thanks a million Bob. I want to try building it myself (at least ONE thing will have been built by me - hehehe). I enjoy woodworking. If that doesn't work out, I'll take you up on your offer! I can't help but notice this locomotive is not yet painted ;-) Har-de-har-har David. You best start asking Henner that question about Betsy. hehehe

Today's Update:

We finished her up tonight. I'll be picking her up tomorrow morning around 5:00 AM and heading home. As good as it will be to get home again, I'm actually sorry it's over!! I've had a helluva good time the last eight days, and Jesse and Don couldn't be any better people, and I am extremely grateful to them both for going way above and beyond the call!!!!

If anyine needs costom boiler work or machining at a great price with a quick turnaround, you can get hold of them at...

JD Locomotive Works
3250 Sirius Ave. Suite H
Las Vegas, NV 89102
(209) 366-3199
jessebanning at msn.com

We also fired her for the second time tonight just before I left, and I got some more video...

* Video - Dwight's CP 173 Second Innagural Firing - 7.7MB 


*


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Your engine is definately "square". Timing is pretty good for the first time out. Everything else is "easy" from now on. Nice plume on the safety. It's like watching a new baby! Congrats. Have a safe trip home.


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, congratulations on your FIRST (and second) firing of your new baby!

How did the coal smoke smell?


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

wow! now that is stack talk. Can't wait to see her in person.


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

My goodness, Dwight. It's actually looking like a steamer.







What a feeling of accomplishment and exuberance to actually put fire and water in it and have it run.









Super job.


----------



## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
Truly stunning! 
Larry


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Just got home, tired but happy. I made good time... 8 hours. I left at 5 AM. Gonna take a nap now. hehehe


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sleep well Dwight, 
your loco sounds aweswome!!!!


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight
I can see a few shelve queens at home, nothing like a ride on experience to appreciate the art of driving a locomotive. Where will you get to run the 4-4-0? An excellent job done and seems to fire easily.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Fantastic! It really is square. 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Okay, had a couple of hours of sleep now and I feel better.








Dwight--was the inaugural firing with the Pocahontas?Sorry Larry - I missed this the first time around. Yes, it was indeed the Pocahontas. Thank you again!!!

For those who don't know, earlier this year when I bought the chassis etc., I came home to find a delivered box sitting inside the gate. Larry Green had sent me a good-sized box of Pocahontas coal with a nice note inside. This was a complete surprise to me, and the guy wouldn't even let me reimburse him for the shipping cost. You meet the nicest people through this hobby!!I can see a few shelve queens at home, nothing like a ride on experience to appreciate the art of driving a locomotive. Where will you get to run the 4-4-0?Don't count on it Charles.







I have no plans to give up #1 gauge. I will in fact be at Mark's Holiday Steamup a week from this Saturday.

There's a club called Golden Gate Live Steamers in the Berkeley/Oakland Hills about 30 minutes north of me with a good sized layout in 4-3/4" and 7-1/2" gauge (and a shorter run of 3-1/2" gauge as well). I've been a member for years - just never had anything to run.

Thanks to everyone for sharing the enthusiasm and for their interest. I hope to start on the boiler jacket soon. I already have the sheet steel. I have to seriously start thinking what color to paint her. The jacket will definitely be Russian iron.

I also took some photos of JD Locomotive Works machines, which I will probably post tomorrow.


----------



## insanerocketkid (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

A suggestion. I noticed you have a big loop leading to the top of the sight glass. I would recommend getting rid of it, and doing a combination of a shorter glass, and taking your top-glass piping and keeping it as level as possible. 

The reason I bring this is up is that I've noticed that a steam bubble will get caught in the plumbing, and when your water level gets higher than your steam port, it will trap steam in the line. As a result, you may feel/think that you have a good water level reading (it will actually likely be stuck in the same place - not moving up or down despite blowing down), but you have too much water. You'll also prove this condition by observing the stack and if you have water coming out the stack, this will likely be the condition. I know you purchased the glass as you did, but that's just my suggestion. 

I'd be willing to deal with a short glass vs a tall glass. You will also want a shutoff valve on the top of your glass so that you can blow your glass down/clean. Not a standard procedure on G scale steamers, but as you get bigger, things get more complicated. 

If further are desired, don't hestitate to e-mail me. I'm on Chaski and you can PM me there also (I don't really pay much attention to PM's on MLS). 

Regards, 
Mike Walsh


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 30 Nov 2009 06:32 PM 
Okay, had a couple of hours of sleep now and I feel better.








...I hope to start on the boiler jacket soon. I already have the sheet steel. I have to seriously start thinking what color to paint her. The jacket will definitely be Russian iron. 



Dwight, Here a link to Russia Iron, which looks pretty authentic to me: 


http://pacificng.com/template.php?p.../index.htm

See you at Mark's (we had one miserable rainy cold day while setting up the layout). 

Regards


----------



## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
Congratulations on the new "Baby". Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I noticed you have a big loop leading to the top of the sight glass. I would recommend getting rid of it, and doing a combination of a shorter glass, and taking your top-glass piping and keeping it as level as possible.Yeah, that's a temporary hookup Mike. I plan to replace it.







There was no convenient place to buy the fittings we needed at the time we were hooking it up. Home Depot barely had anything in terms of fittings, and nothing for refrigerator hookups like copper elbows, etc. I hate Home Depot!!


----------



## terry_n_85318 (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

ACE hardware has lots of fittings that HD doesn't. 

Terry


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

ACE hardware has lots of fittings that HD doesn't. Out here in CA, we have Orchard Supply Hardware. They also have a good selection of this sort of stuff.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I am thinking a quartersawn white oak cab with a good shellac finish would be way too cool. Something like this cab from a "Marie Estelle", but with some more trim and a planked roof


http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/xo18thfa/2662-h.jpg

 http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/xo18thfa/2662-l.jpg

That engine is going to be a shop piece when it's done. It will make a statement.


----------



## ChooChooMike (Oct 27, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wonderful build log !! 

Do you have any pictures of the staybolts going in and the tubes being rolled in ? Seemed to have skipped all that  Also is there any staybolts connecting the crown sheet to the boiler shell ? 

Mike


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Do you have any pictures of the staybolts going in and the tubes being rolled in?No, I'm afraid not. Also is there any staybolts connecting the crown sheet to the boiler shell?No actual stays connecting things, no. There are some stiffeners visible in this photo...










The dimensions of the flat unsupported area of the crown sheet are about 3" x 6.5", or 19.5 sq. in. At 80psi, that's 1560 lbs of total pressure, and at 100 psi, that's 1950 lbs. The crown sheet is 1/4" steel plate which typically has a tensile strength listed of at least 58+ Kpsi. I have little doubt that there would ever be enough heat and pressure to cause it to fail - at least not in my lifetime.







Additionally, not all small boilers of similar construction have stayed crown sheets.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

My tender showed up yesterday!!







At least most of it did.









I received the frame...










end sills and associated parts (still in the wrapping)...










and the tank, water pump, etc. ...





































I'm starting the boiler lagging and wrapper tomorrow.









BTW, for those of you who only check the Live Steam forum and missed it, I bought a *new milling machine*.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Me thinks this is getting a wee too big to take as "carry on" luggage on the flight to Diamondhead, MS!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I've been on vacation for the last two weeks, and I was hoping to get a huge amount done. However, as usual, (a) things took considerably longer than I thought they would, and (b) life got in the way. Most of the first week was consumed with two trips to the vet for out cat (Mon and Tues), getting a new furnace and central air installed (Wed and Thur), Christmas Day (Fri), and the second wek was getting a molar pulled (Tues), and recovery from same. However I did get things accomplished - mainly, making the boiler jacket transition piece.

This is a somewhat strangely shaped piece - a conic section, or slice through a cone diagonally. It starts parallel with the boiler center-line on the bottom, and the angle gradually and continuously increases to the top, then decreases back to the bottom. After thinking about it for a while, I decided the best way to make it was to create a former and support structure out of hardwood. As wood was originally used for boiler lagging, I figured I could also leave the support structure in place under the transition piece sheet metal.

I laid everything out in AutoCAD and wrote the g-code for the front and rear pieces which would constitute the correct angles - a series of 1/16" deep circular cuts, each larger than the preceding one and all tangent at the bottom. I then cut them on the CNC milling machine. 

My first attempt wasn't entirely successful because I chose the wrong wood - I used red oak, which doesn't have a tight enough grain structure. It splintered too much for my taste and looked crappy. A quick call to Bob Sorenson resulted in a recommendation to use maple. The second try using maple worked out good (a big thanks Bob!!!).

Here's the basic support structure...




























I relieved the back section to clear the weld beads where the small tube meets the throat sheet.

Here's the structure on the boiler...










The next step was to make a template for the actual sheet metal. For this I used some 0.020 "Tuffquin" - a Class H insulation paper we use in transformers at work - nice and stiff, but not too stiff...










This was bent around the support structure and held in place with staples and the sides trimmed flush with the support structure. 

I test-fit it onto the boiler to make sure everything would work on the underside where it touches the throat sheet (I had to remove the staples from the bottom ends to get it on)...










It fit perfectly, so I took the Tuffquin off, laid it on the sheet metal, and drew around it with a Sharpie grease pen. For the sheet metal, I used #22 ga. (0.025) cold rolled steel. I started out using a pair of aviation snips for the top curve, but it was not only difficult to get the snips in there where I wished to cut, it also left a ragged edge full of detents and waves. I finished the outer edge on my small Grizzly shear, but I wasn't going to be able to do that on the inside curve.

The answer was a pair of nibblers I bought a while back from Micro-Mark. I just nibbled away the inside curve 1/16" at a time.


















A close-up of the edge done with the aviation snips...










I was able to take most of the waviness out with a planishing hammer, and that section will be covered anyway and sits on the underside of the boiler out of sight.

Here's the wrapped sheet metal...










The wood semi-ring at left mounted to the back of the transition piece. It fits over the large section of the boiler and mates the transition piece to it. It also will act as the front former for the large piece of jacket over the rear of the boiler. Another full ring has been made for the front.

The bottom joint of the sheet metal was affixed to the support structure with #4 screws...










Using the nibbler, I cut a series of notches in the sheet metal wrapper to allow it to conform to the horizontal mating surfaces. The sheet metal is affixed to the mounted rear semi-ring with a flathead screw, and the front ring is also in place. It tightens around the boiler...










The spaces in between the wood will be filled with 1/4" ceramic mat insulation, and the notches will be hidden under the adjoining sheet metal wrapper pieces and boiler bands.

A couple of shots of the finished transition piece...



















I started mounting it tonight and will finish it up tomorrow. Now that this piece is done, the remaining wrapper pieces are simple rolled cylinders and should go quickly. The #22 ga. crs is surprisingly strong when rolled into a cylinder - it won't be easily dented. My plan on the front piece is to make a template out of some clear sheet we plot silkscreens on at work. This will allow me to easily locate the holes for the check valves, etc.

I haven't begun to assemble the tender yet, but I talked to RRSC the other say and my tender trucks are enroute. Once the boiler jacket is on, I can plumb in the crosshead pumps and water lines. I need to make the running boards and mount and hook up the mechanical lubricator, and assemble the tender and plumb its water lines. 
I'm then ready to ride this puppy!!


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Nice job Dwight, and people were wondering what projects you'd be using all that new equipment on.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight: That transition piece turned out very nice. It was a good idea to do that piece first then work outwards. The seems will hide themselves just fine. The conical piece in 22 gauge will be nearly bullet proof.

That tender tank looks sweet. Can't wait to see that fellow under trucks.

You must be laying awake nights wondering about the paint job. 


Good show, Bob


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, I live vicariously through your posts of big steam. I have chosen to down size this year to OO live steam, at least for Janurary. Please keep the pictures coming. Doesn't suck to be you, STEAM ON


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I've finally started making progress again. I got into a slump over the winter... no desire to work out in the cold damp garage among other reasons.

Anyway, I machined the cab support brackets last week (took a day off). These were raw aluminum castings that needed to be squared, trued, drilled and tapped. It's amazing how long something like this takes. I was at it for over four hours just to machine these two simple parts...










Here they are mounted to the loco...










Yesterday I started making the sideplates out of $14 ga brass. Today I made the attached spring covers and riveted them in place. The curved slot if for the Johnson Bar connection to pass through.










And attached to the loco...










It looks like I'm going to have to pull the boiler and smokebox. There are two supports - part of the crosshead guides - which are going to foul the front boiler jacket, so I need to scribe them and grind them down somewhat, and I need to yank the boiler to do that. I need to paint the smokebox anyway. When I put it back, I can make sure it's level and true, and I can then finish the smokebox jacket pieces and start on the running boards and their brackets.

Hopefully more will follow soon.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I hear you about removing the boiler! I hate to tell you how many times I had it on and then off again on my Gene Allen ten-wheeler, just to fix things like you are doing. That's the "fun" of building one of these. It's looking good Dwight.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Gary. I got the boiler and smokebox off this afternoon, so that's done. Now I have to clean up the smokebox and stack and degrease them so I can paint them. Recommendations?


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking very nice. That is going to be a sweet machine. 

Take care lifting that boiler Dwight


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Bar-b-cue spray paint for the smoke box and stack. That's what I used.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

It looks fantastic. Keep it up! 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I was careful Bob. Wasn't as heavy as I expected.
Bar-b-cue spray paint for the smoke box and stack.I meant for degreasing Gary. I thought of using Simple Green - worked great for #21. However, I need to get the coal crud out of the smokebox first. Gasoline?


Thanks Alan. It's a helluva lot different than working on the small stuff.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Sorry 'bout that. Simple Green should work great. When I built this thing, I was still in the die-sinking trade. I had access to industrial grade solvents. Ah, those were the days!


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

If simple green does not do the trick in removing the smokebox gunk, I have often found brake parts cleaner (aka Brakleen) to be effective at degreasing heavily caked components, short of a high pressure steam cleaner. It is fast evaporating and leaves no residue. If used properly, it should have no affect on existing paint work, but since you are repainting the smokebox any way this is not a big concern for you. 

Using hot water and a scotty pad (scotch brite) before each degreaser application to help loosen the gunk and congealed oil will help speed the process up.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Ryan! I'll add that to my bag of tricks.








See you and Jeff in July, right? Is Justin also coming again?


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 26 Apr 2010 06:10 AM 
Thanks Ryan! I'll add that to my bag of tricks.







See you and Jeff in July, right? Is Justin also coming again? 
Dwight,

Jeff and I will be out there (along with Charles and Alan) to represent the east coast contingent. Looking forward to seeing you again.


Justin won't be there this year, something about playing best man at a wedding. We'll have to make sure he has his train priorities straight next year!


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, good to hear from you again on the 4-4-0. Regarding prepping of bare metal, such as those brass cab deck pieces, I use a phosphoric acid solution, available from an automotive paint supplier. While stated to be for steel and aluminum, I have found it to be equally effective on brass. I use Sherwin-Williams #W4K 263 Dual-Etch, which is the concentrate. Use the stronger mix for brass. This stuff is benign, and I keep a plastic peanut butter jar of solution on the workbench for regular use on nuts/ bolts and other small parts during assembly. 

For degreasing, I use S-W #R7K 158 Ultra Clean, one of the solvent products Gary reminisces about. Use this product under a hood or outdoors-nasty stuff to sniff! 

Larry


----------



## insanerocketkid (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Wire Wheels are a steam mechanic's best friend! Not a day goes by we don't use the wire wheel at the Wabash, Frisco, and Pacific Railroad in the roundhouse... We generally use the wire wheel to clean off components that have been caked with rust, grease, packed dirt/grease/rock combination, etc. Most don't normally hit the components with a cleaner, but I find myself reaching for the paint thinner just to wipe things down -- after you've wire wheeled rust off a surface, it tends to leave a dusty film that needs to be wiped off. Wire Wheel saves a lot of time compared to sanding/scotchbriting surfaces, and when you're done, it's just a matter of wiping things down. 

Our wire wheel is basically an old belt driven bench grinder with one wheel being a wire wheel, and the other being an old grinding wheel (that's never used for grinding anymore). It sits upon a stand made up of a pipe welded to a railroad tieplate... 

Just food for thought. 

Mike


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

A couple of weeks back I removed the boiler so I could get busy on the remaining two jacket pieces. While I was at it, I took the smokebox off as well, and took it, the smokebox front, the stack parts, and the cab brackets and side plates down and got them semi-gloss black powder coated. Here's the smokebox and stack...



















This weekend I finished up the boiler jacket and boiler bands. All that remains now is to get the jacket pieces colored and it's on to the water lines. BTW, the domes are just sitting atop the jacket here - they aren't finished nor mounted.




























Damn - just now noticed the screwdriver.







Oh well...

I'm open for ideas on how to finish the jacket. I'd like to have it professionally hot blued, but gun shops are few inthe part of California I live in, and I'm not sure they could handle pieces this large anyway. Plating, painting, or powder coating are other options. Suggestions?


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

beautiful Dwight. I can't wait to see this finished!


----------



## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wow Dwight,
It is really purty.

You mentioned Gun Blueing. There is this book - 
*"Firearm Blueing and Browning" Book by R.H. Angier*
A comprehensive manual with more than 250 formulas for *chemical* and heat coloring of gun metals and for other processes such as rust removal and nickel plating, with practical instructions and notes. 151 Pages - Hardcover. 
Tommy








Rio Gracie


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

She's really a beauty Dwight! I'm half afraid that, once you fire her up and take her out, you'll be so smitten with "Live Steam 7 1/2" Gauge style" that you'll forget about us here down in "_merely_ large scale!"


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Steve Stockham on 24 May 2010 10:12 AM 
She's really a beauty Dwight! I'm half afraid that, once you fire her up and take her out, you'll be so smitten with "Live Steam 7 1/2" Gauge style" that you'll forget about us here down in "_merely_ large scale!"









Well, Steve, he's not going to the Big Train Show or SWGR Show so he can work on the 7-1/2". I think that we're already way down on the list.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I've heard that this is like the teenager that likes cars until he discovers girls.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight: I would go with a blued finish. It would be so unique and just plain cool. With all that polished brass, what a statement.


Check out Midway USA. They are a huge gunsmith, reloading and shooting supplier. They have all the bluing chemicals. Birchwood Casey is pretty much the standard.


Midway 

CP is coming along great.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks gents. I seriously doubt that I'll lose my love for, or involvement in, small scale live steam. My reasons for not attending BTS or SWGRS this year has a lot more to do with there being two competing shows, split attendence of my friends, reduced steam track time, lack of plans to socialize after hours, and a host of other reasons. Doing a 13+ hour round-trip drive for a couple of days just seems a waste of time, money, and gas this year. 

Bob - I'd thought about, and read up some on, cold blued finishes. From what I could gather, doing it one's self often results in streaks and/or blotches, especially on a large smooth surface such as the boiler jacket. That's why I'm looking for someone I can send it to to have it professionally hot blued. Finding someone to do it is the problem.


----------



## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight - it should be pretty simple to find someone to hot blue your boiler. Look for someone who is a factory authorized gunsmith. Perrazi (big in CA) and Kreighoff dealers and/or a repair center. Even if they cant do it, they will know who can. Its a small industry, and everbody knows everbody else.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I have been off for the last week and working on the locomotive. 


I had no luck finding anyone to blue the jacket... everyone who was willing to do it didn't have tanks large enough to handle the parts. I finally decided just to powder coat it. It came out great, but the color I chose looks very different from what was on the color chart, which was a darker more metallic charcoal blue. Still and all, it's fairly close to the color on the O-scale V&T Mogul I bought, so I'm reasonably happy with it. I can always have it redone at some point in the future.
I painted the boiler proper with Rust-oleum 1200 degree high-temp paint, both to inhibit rust and to paint the backhead and portions of the firebox that are exposed...










Next I wrapped the boiler in some high-tech insulating blanket I bought over a year ago. I plan to mount my mechanical lubricator inside the cab around where the fireman would sit, and wanted to run my oil lines under the jacket like the prototype. The valve chests had some bosses in them threaded for 1/4-20. These are supposed to mount some fake oil cups. Instead, I have some M5 X 0.5 cones and nuts like Accucraft uses on their steam lines, so I decided to use those. I made some fittings to thread into the 1/4-20 bosses and accept the M5 cones/nut.










The bosses had no through holes to the valve chests which required I remove the top plate and drill them. While I had the top off, I snapped a photo of the valves...










I ran 1/8" brass tubing from the top of the valve chests up under the boiler jacket. Once hidden, I converted to 1/8" copper refrigerator tubing. This immediately bends 90* down and curves around to the underside of the boiler, where the lines again bend 90* and run under the jacket to the front of the firebox, then 90* up and around the fireman's side and one more 90* under the (future)fireman's side running board. All connections are high-temp silver soldered.










I located and drilled the holes for mounting the domes and the handrail stanchions and put everything back together Here she is as of tight now. The domes still need cleaning up and paint...










You can see the other end of the oil lines above the drivers in the above photo. They're just hanging there right now.



















I got the check valves and unions installed, but realized that while I bought a 1/4-40MPT tap, I didn't buy the frakkin' die!







Consequently I have no way to thread the brass tubing I bought for the water lines to the crosshead pumps and tender until I can order one Monday.

Later today or tomorrow I'll start on the running boards and assembling the tender trucks. I'm getting real close to being able to test-ride this sucker!


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hey Dwight: The boiler jacket turned out very nice. It looks great. Can't wait to see that baby in steam. And the boiler looks very familiar. I forgot if you mentioned it, but are you going to ride on the tender or a sererate riding car?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I forgot if you mentioned it, but are you going to ride on the tender or a sererate riding car?The tender is set up as the place for a user-supplied seat. Instead of a water hatch, there's a piece of varnished plywood.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wow! I love that blue jacket. Came out very nice indeed. Nice clean plumbing too.


----------



## Woody (Jun 6, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

My entire adult life I have wanted to build a 7 1/4" live steam engine. In fact, I have started two. One frame was lost in a move and I still have the frame for a Little Engines Atlantic. Rethinking things, I have decided that an 4 4 0 American from Little Engines may be a better starting point for me. I am really concerned why you had trouble with the boiler. I know yours is a RRSC, but there must be 100's around. Why did your first boiler not fit? Why were the drawings wrong? Did you order your boiler from RRSC or straight from Jesse? 

Thanks, 
Woody


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

No boiler is available from Railroad Supply... I suspect in part it's a liability issue. They do supply drawings for fabricating a copper boiler, but you still have to find someone willing and qualified to make it, or make it yourself. With the couple of places I found, lead times are quite long and they are very expensive to have made. I don't know about where you live, but out here, it's not like there's a boiler shop on every street corner. I had to hunt around quite a bit to find someone willing to build one at a price I was looking to pay.










I met Jesse at Golden Gate Live Steamers and he agreed to make me a welded steel boiler at a very reasonable price. The welded steel boiler also has the advantage of more weight over the drivers for more tractive effort. I made a set of drawings based upon the copper boiler drawings from RRS (I was an electromechanical designer and draftsman for 20+ years).


The first boiler didn't fit due to a mistake, pure and simple. Jesse is a great guy and to his credit, he stood behind his product and made me a second brand new boiler at no charge to me. In fact, when I was out to his shop over Thanksgiving week, he and Don did a lot of extra work on my locomotive expecting no real payment. I gave them some money anyway as I just wouldn't feel right about not doing so. It is, after all, their business and I have no wish to take advantage of their friendship.


Between the time I created the first set of drawings and the time the second boiler was made, I found a second boiler drawing in the pile of RRS drawings I'd bought. This was a much simpler drawing showing only the external configuration and dimensions - no innards on this drawing. On it however, the firebox was 1/4" shorter than on the copper boiler drawing. We incorporated that change on the second boiler. The original would still have fit if it had been correctly made, but that extra 1/4" gave us additional space between the cab floor and the backhead.


BTW, during the time of constructing the first boiler, Jesse lived in Lodi and the chassis was in Milpitas, so he couldn't test-fit things during construction. Before he built the second boiler, he'd moved to Vegas and hooked up with Don. The main reason I went out there was to have the chassis with me and available for test fitting, etc.
I don't know if Little Engines supplies boilers or not. You may want to check with them before deciding. I know O.S. does supply boilers with their loco kits, but their kits are pretty expensive.

I'd say if you want one, dive in. It will take you a while, and it won't be cheap, but in the end you'll have a ball.


----------



## Woody (Jun 6, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for your response Dwight. Yes, Little Engines offers a boiler, steel or copper, I think they are $3000 and $4000 respectively. Not cheap, but I would hope it would be a slip in situation, not everyone can spend a week at the machine shop, you were lucky things worked out well for you. Your engine looks great, keep the pictures coming. 


Woody


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yeah, 3-4 grand was around the neighborhood of the copper boilers I got quotes on. You're right about spending a week at the machine shop, but if worse came to worse, I could have shipped the chassis to Vegas and had the chassis/boiler shipped back. As it turns out, Jesse and I had become pretty good friends by that time, and just being there watching he and Don work was an education in machining techniques that made the week worthwhile all by itself. As a bonus, I got a functional steam locomotive out of it as well. hehehe 

Did you see the 2nd Inaugural Run video back a couple of pages in this thread?


----------



## Woody (Jun 6, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yes, I saw the video. It must be a great feeling to see it run on steam. I really would like to build an engine, and while I am a stair builder by trade, I have a mid size mill and 12" lathe. That doesn't mean I have the skills, but maybe. I'm also sure I don't have the money or time to build one, but if I don't start it, I will never finish it. It just seems that a large scale, live steam locomotive is the ultimate mechanical model that you can build. 
I'm old enough to remember steam locomotives on the Long Island Railroad when I was a boy. I know I was only about 6 or 7 at the time, but I remember being in awe of their size and power, and how massive they were. 
I am almost ready to call and order two sections from Little Engines and get started, I'll keep in touch. 

Woody


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That doesn't mean I have the skills, but maybe.I had almost no actual experience in machining prior to building my live steam NPC #21. I'd designed lots of stuff at work, and I'd used a lathe and mill a couple of times, but never for any precision work. I had a fair amount of experience working with sheet metal, HRS angle and channel, shears, drill presses and the like, but no real machining to speak of, and nothing with tolerances tighter than 1/32". I started off with a small Sherline lathe and milling machine, both CNC. Since '98, I've been the IT Manager for my company, and I've been programming since 1980, so CNC programming wasn't all that hard for me to learn. That, combined with my experience with CAD, allowed me to design parts, draw them in CAD, write the CNC g-code, and make the parts I needed. 

Little by little, I've been making more and more manually - without the CNC, and I've since bought larger machines. 

My point is that I have no doubt it's a skill you or anyone can acquire.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Just an FYI post (no photos yet). I've been working on making the running boards out of 1/4" aircraft plywood. Because I made the boiler jacket out of 0.025" cold rolled steel, things didn't lay down as well as I would have liked. Eventually I'll have to remake the jackets out of something thinner. At any rate, to get a snug fit between the running boards and the jacket is requiring some intricate cutting of the plywood (I'm probably being waaaaayyyyy to much of a perfectionist here). I've been using the band saw at work for two reasons... (a) it requires cutting sharp corners, impossible on a circular saw because of the radiused blade, and (b) it also requires small inside cuts also impossible on a circular saw.

I don't use a band saw all that often, but it's one of those tools that, when you need it, there's no substitute. Using the one at work (a good saw) means cutting the part, bringing it home, est fitting, taking it back to work, and if it isn't right, waiting until tomorrow. I need something HERE where I can cut, test-fit, re-cut, etc.

I had an El-cheapo Craftsman saw. What a piece of crap!! It was impossible to tension the blade enough to prevent the 3/8" blade from walking, and adjusting the guides also accomplished nothing. This morning I drug it out and grabbed the tensioning knob with a pair of channel locks so I could try for maximum tension... SNAP!! Tha damned part broke! I'mm going to throw the useless thing away.

On the bright side, it was real inexpensive. I went to Lowes today and bought a benchtop Skil band saw. While this may also turn out to be a useless piece of crap, my experience is that Skil make the top of the line in cheap tools. I don't use a band saw often enough, nor do I have the space, to justify a good machine as they all take up space. Additionally, nNo one seems to make a quality benchtop band saw. We'll see how it works out.


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

Remember that the real running boards were about 1" out from the boiler shell, so the model ones don't have to be tight up against the shell.


Andre


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Another benchtop band saw... 

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/rikon10bandsaw.aspx 

Something to consider. 

Nice loco. 

John


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Boy, o boy...... She's a real beauty, Dwight. Really taking shape nicely.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Once again, I took off all last week and I've made some good progress. Here's where she stands as of right now.

First order of business was to get the water lines made and installed. To do this, I used 1/4" and 5/16" diameter scale pipe (thick wall brass tubing) from PM Research, along with an assortment of their elbows, tees, unions, nipples, and globe valves. Each pipe was cut, bent where appropriate, and the ends threaded with dies also from PM Research. To thread the ends, I chucked the pipes up in the lathe and used the tailstock pressing against the die holder while manually turning the chuck to get the threads straight. On bent pieces that wouldn't fit in the lathe, I placed the piece in a milling vice and used the mill spindle to keep things straight.

A 5/16 line supplies water to the bottom of each crosshead pump. The pump outputs are plumbed onto a tee, one side of which feeds the boiler via a check valve. The other end runs aft to a bypass valve just under the rear cab support brackets, which will feed excess water back into the tender tank.











To connect the valvegear rocker arm to the lubricator, I went with a cable (R/C flexible pushrod). I made this bracket to affix to the rear of the rocker arm and pick up the cable.











Here's the bracket attached to the rocker arm. Another piece was made to mount to the crosshead frame and mount a cable clamp.










The cable runs aft and is secured to the rear two running board brackets with additional clamps. The water bypass lines also attach to the running board brackets with clamps I fabricated, using the same bolts used to attach the running boards themselves. Additional brackets were fabbed to secure the oil lines to the rear side of the boiler.










Here, the running boards have been attached and the lines and cable secured.










The cable feeds up through a hole in the running board and drives the lubricator arm. The oil lines were bent and terminated to the lubricator outputs. I also decided to redo the site glass plumbing correctly by adding a valve at the top and replacing the blowdown valve on the bottom with something I could get onto with a drain tube that directs the blowdown out of the cab. The Johnson Bar was also mounted and the reach rod made. I still need to notch the quadrant once I figure out where to notch it.










I made the reach rod from the same 1/4" diameter scale pipe. I made some 1/4-28 threaded inserts that I silver brazed into the ends, and made some luge out of 1/2" brass round stock that thread onto these and attach then ends to the Johnson Bar and valve gear. This allows some adjustment of the "reach."










Here are a few overall shots of her current state of completion...





































I still need to drill and tap the turret for the blower valve and cylinder cock valve and plumb them into their appropriate lines. Once that's done, the loco itself will be "ride-able." I've assembled the tender trucks, but still need to attach them to the frame along with the fiberglass tender tank, and them make those water lines and a drawbar. Then it will be off to GGLS for her first test ride.









Unfortunately, I'm plumb out of time. I'm meeting the Redekers tomorrow at Roaring Camp and them Wednesday I'm off to the NSS for five days. I was hoping to basically have her "ride-able" - amazing how long all this stuff takes to fabricate and mount.


----------



## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
Any idea when you'll take her up to GGLS? I've been following this thread for some time and would like to be there to witness its first run!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Will that cable take constant motion? 

Any way to have a grease fitting on it, or will lube just work it's way down by gravity. 

Sure is shaping up Dwight! 

Regards, Greg


----------



## terry_n_85318 (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Might want to rethink the blow down on the bottom of the sight glass. There should be a valve between boiler and sight glass. If sight glass breaks, you need a way to shut the water off. Just a thought. I redid mine. 

Terry


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Anthony - not sure exactly, but just as soon as I can get her ready - probably next month. 

Greg - the cable is 1/16 diameter of steel strand weave and rides inside a slick nylon tube. I slipped some black glass weave electrical sleeving over the nylon for appearance. The cable is made for controlling large scale R/C aircraft control surfaces which can produce some respectable forces and are in relatively constant motion. The cable is in tension when forcing oil through the rams and to the cylinders. In compression it's merely pushing the actuating arm back against a light ratchet. Time will tell how well it holds up, but I'm reasonably confident. 

Terry - there is such a valve. There are three - one at the top boiler connection, one at bottom where the glass connects to the boiler that came built into the glass, and below that, the blowdown valve.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Very clean plumbing! Lookin' good! You should be very proud of her.


----------



## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Geez dude, I gave you 2.5 years while I was schoolin' to get this thing done... I can't believe you're Still working on it!  

It is looking sharp though... You better have someone take video of her rolling when you finally get there! 

Trot, the envious, fox... (I almost picked up a CP Huntington several years back)


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
That is really looking fanstastic! I'm looking forward to videos of you riding behind it!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Gents. She's soooooooo close! I'm looking forward to videos of you riding behind it! I'm just looking forward to riding behind it!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I came in an hour early this morning so I could use one of the full size drill presses and drill the new tender deck I made from 1/4" aluminum. A couple of quick shots with my cellphone...



















With the exception of the trucks, I'm not at all happy with the tender! The tank is a one-piece fiberglass casting and the frame is made of angle iron and looks nothing like a prototypical 4-4-0 frame. The upper flange is poorly made as well. Eventually I'll make an all new tender out of brass. In the meantime, this will at least allow me to ride her.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Will you be adding baffles in the tank to cut down on water sloshing around with the movement of the engine? Gene Allen shows this on his prints for the tenders for both the Mogul and ten-wheeler. I added some to my ten-wheeler tender and it really makes a difference.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Will you be adding baffles in the tank to cut down on water sloshing around with the movement of the engine?When I make my own brass tender, definitely. On this one it will depend on how much sloshing I get. If I find I absolutely need them, then I'll make some (don't want to look like I wet my pants - hehehe). Otherwise I probably won't bother since I want to replace it eventually anyway.


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwgiht, even though you say the tender looks a bit "clunky", it still will afford you a good ride when you get it bolted to the locomotive. 

I really don't see how it will run on the live steam track at Pomona though.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

A week or so ago I got the turret drilled and tapped for the blower valve and the blower line installed. Last week I made up a pipe and fittings so I could run her on compressed air, the purpose being so that I could make sure that the lubricator was working and get the oil lines primed. I wanted to visually verify that I was getting oil to the cylinders before I tried running her on steam. I also wanted to locate and mark the positions where I would need to notch the reversing quadrant.

I tried doing it here, but my compressor doesn't have the capacity to run her for more than ten seconds or so. Last Saturday I loaded her into the car and took her to my work to use their air lines. I got her hooked up and running - and the damn mechanical lubricator wasn't putting out any oil. I ended up having to bring her home, remove the lubricator and completely disassemble it. I primed both the inputs and the rams with turbing oil (less viscous), reassembled the lubricator, and spun it with a power drill. I was now getting oil out of the outputs. I reinstalled it, hooked up the oil lines, and used the drill again to prime the lines. I now have oil at the cylinders.

Today I notched the reverse quadrant and was going to start on the tender water fittings, but I can't find a certain drill index I need with my 1/2" drill. I'll borrow one from the shop tomorrow and drill the holes tomorrow night. I need to remove the tank and gasket all the through holes with gaskets I made last week, then make the tender water lines.

After that, all that's left is to make a drawbar and it's test-drive time.









The blower line and backhead...



















The reverse quadrant...










BTW, I also drilled two new holes in the lubricator ratchet arm and relocated the connection for more travel per wheel revolution.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Took her back to the shop today and ran her on compressed air again. This time, the lubricator works.





The oil flow rate at the cylinders...



The tender is just about together. Tomorrow should see assembled and it close to finished. Two weeks to my first test ride!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight we need one of JJ's "so many days and a wake-up" countdown for your first ride behind! You should be very proud of her (and yourself) and how she turned out. Congrats.


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
Thanks for posting it's great to see the progress now you do have oil looks like water will be boiling shortly.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight: Looks great! You will be on the track any day now.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Today I bought my Vegas boilermaker/buddy a plane ticket to San Jose. He arrives a week from Thursday. A week from Friday is the big day! We'll take her to GGLS for her maiden run.


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

You got to make sure you take a good video of the maiden run. 

Oh wonder if I can find a cheap ticket...


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

You got to make sure you take a good video of the maiden run.Will do Mark! Operating the video camera is one of the reasons I'm flying Jesse out.









Finished assembling the tender tonight. Water lines are all in. Just need to make the connecting hoses, and I might just do that when we have her at GGLS to (1) ensure they are long anough and (2) ensure they aren't too long to drag on the ballast. It'll only take ten minutes to make two hoses.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Looks beautiful. I can't wait to see the video! 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That looks so cool. But are you really going to operate that tiny valve under a tender full of water and coal?


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking good. Can't wait till you get her fired up and some pics of it. Later RJD


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

But are you really going to operate that tiny valve under a tender full of water and coal?That's just the main shut-off valve Mike. Open it once prior to firing the loco - close it at the end of the day. Steaming bays are all elevated rails and the underside of the loco is totally accessible.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

This is something you might want to think about adding to the bottom of the tender.........a large drain valve to completely emply the tender of water at the end of your run. We added these to our mogul and ten-wheeler tenders after a year or two. You never know exactly how much water you will have remaining in the tender when you decide the day is done and you load-up to take her home. Just a suggestion. I'm looking forward to seeing your first run. Lookin' good!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Gary. There is currently a 1/8th pipe passthru fitted with a pipe plug next to the elbow on the bottom. It doesn't connect to anything inside and is, I guess, supposed to be a drain. I'll see how well it works as it may not be big enough. If it turns out to be adequate, I'll fit it with a globe valve. If not, I'll put in something else.


I don't want to invest too much time or effort inth this tender as I want to build an all new one anyway at some point. I really don't like the frame and I'm not all that fond of the fiberglass tank either. I think I can do better. We'll see.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The frame looks great, it's even made in Canada> :>)


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dan, 
You seeing a Steel channel that has Canada stamp. 
If you want a piece you could even run to Home Depot and buy a 3' stick. 
Never you may want to make a bridge out of piece. 

Dwight, 
Looks good thanks for posting.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The frame looks great, it's even made in CanadaNow where did I leave my hand grinder...


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Aw come on guys, don't pick on Canada. They don't shoot at us across the border (at least not here in VT) and they produce real nice cedar scale lumber that I get from Ozark Miniatures. BTW, the steel shapes I buy here come from Canada, also. 

Larry


----------



## Woody (Jun 6, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Good luck with it Dwight.

Richard


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I twern't pickin' on Canada Larry - I twere pickin' on Dan.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

A quickie - I re-did the blower line to add a compressed air fitting and additional valve (something I forgot on the first blower line) to be used until enough steam pressure is available to operate the blower.


----------



## ORD23 (Jan 2, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wow, not only do you put out a great tool list, but you build fantastic loco's! You da man! 

Ed


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Good idea never thought about having a compressed air fitting to run the blower.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Good idea never thought about having a compressed air fitting to run the blower.Yeah, GGLS has air lines at the steaming bays. Beats the **** out of a stack fan!


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hey Dwight, when are you gonna get her dirty??? 

Larry


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Friday is the big day Larry! Her first test run and I get to ride her for the first time (God willin' and the river don't rise).


----------



## Roland Seavey (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Ok third time should be a charm at least i hope so. Dwight that is such a beautiful job, always wanted to do a 2 1/2 inch shay (lol) by the way missed you at Pomona in June and hope you come down in 
Dec. take care and have a great first steam and ride
Roland


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Roland.


BTW Larry, we'll be using the coal you sent me.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Jesse got in yesterday afternoon. We finished up several odds and ends and last night fired her on coal for a pre-flight test before today's inaugural run. Found and fixed several water leaks in the pipe joints, etc. We also verified that the crosshead pumps work great and look well able to keep up with boiler demand, and verified that the hand pump in the tender works and that everything functions as it's supposed to. We'll be heading up to GGLS around 9:00 AM (after rush hour traffic is over). Today is the BIG DAY!!! Yahoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!


08/19/2010 - A quick clip from my cell phone of the roaring coal fire during last night's test firing...


----------



## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yee hah Go have yourself a nice ride Deeeeewight!!!!
Tommy








Rio Gracie


----------



## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

O'boy.....you've got to be excited. We'll all be waiting for the videos. Have fun!!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Congrats Dwight! This is the BIG day! When I finally completed my ten-wheeler many years ago and had all the plumbing finished and tightened up and did my test firing. What a surprise! It looked like somebody had taken a shotgun blast to her. Leaks everywhere! I believe the leaks occur just to "show you who is the boss". That's why steam engines are referred to as "she" or "her". Enjoy your inaugural run today and we're all waiting for the pictures!


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Boy howdy Dwight, you must be getting excited. All the hard work, sleepless nights, planning, preparation and traveling in your case, coming down to the wire. It will run great. I know it will. Can't wait to see the videos. Have your sweetheart do the camera however, you monitor the engine. But don't keep your head buried in the cab so you run into the guy in front of you.



Eargerly awaiting. Bob


----------



## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Fantastic Dwight, 
What a magnificent project this has been....and now the big day! 

You'll have a fine time I know it. 

David.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Go Dwight!!! 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

"IT IS _ALIVE!!!_" Congrats Dwight!!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

08/20/2010 - First raw unedited video of the very first run - also MY very first run!! There were a few issues which got ironed out as the day progressed - like a super-stiff throttle which made control very difficult and caused a good amount of wheel slippage early on. By the third run that was fixed. Other things ...also got fixed except for a leaking gland nut on the engineer's side crosshead pump... too major of a repair to do there while the loco was hot. We'll fix that this evening. All in all, an eminently satisfying day. 

Tired but happy!!!


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That is really great, I'm happy that you've made it.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Great video...and I know you are feeling just as great!!!!!!!!! Congratulation on making the "long haul" come to fruition. Someday I'll get back up there...and ride behind that engine. Really looking forward to that!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Welcome to the club! Sounds very nice. There sure is a lot going on when you're running of these , isn't there? Soon you'll learn all of her idiosyncrasies and the two of you (and her) will be working together as one. I'll bet you wished you had a fireman working with you, right? No wonder you were tired-doing the work of two. Congrats to a proud papa. Only a few get the thrill of running a ride-on coal-fired steam.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Penny liked the video! 

Congrats !! (speed demon!) 

Greg


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Congratulations, Dwight. A lot of time and hard work went into the first run, but now you can have some fun!

Way to go!


----------



## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

YIPPEE! Congrats on a wonderful inaugural run, Dwight!







Of course, we all know that you just wanted an excuse to wear the outfit and blow the whistle.. and we're all JEALOUS!


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Way cool! Allison saw me watching that and said, "your wheels are turning, aren't they?" Yes. Yes they are... 

Later, 

K


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks all!! It was absolutely terrific and extremely satisfying after all the work!! 
There sure is a lot going on when you're running of these , isn't there?Amazingly so! One of the main reasons I wanted Jesse here was to nursemaid me through my first few runs. He sat behind me on one lap and filmed the entire thing, all the while telling me what to do... okay, notch her back... open the bypass... give her some throttle and notch her full forward... add a couple of scoops of coal... stir the fire... jeez, sometimes there's hardly time to look ahead! But I will say, on that run we were still popping the safety at 100 psi at top of a 3-1/2% 2% (sorry) grade. He really knows his **** when it comes to running one of these. 




More videos will follow in the next few days as time permits. Tomorrow we're going back up there.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Oh yeah... the gland nut was fixed and a few other odds and ends as well this evening.


----------



## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Far out, 
That was a magnificent run. You did great Dwight, and the engine talk sounded like you had it all set up perfect. 

Thanks for sharing mate, 
David.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Second video... Jesse taking himself and two other adults plus three kids for a ride up the 2% grade. The shot through the tunnel is where the grade crests. Lots of power in this little sucker!


----------



## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Congratulations Dwight. I can't tell you how proud we all are....it's like being witness to a birth.







You looked to be a very busy boy


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Congratulations Dwight. Looks and sounds nice. I'm glad the first day was such a success! 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Ah, the smell of coal smoke and hot oil! At the end of the day, the feel of oily cinders on your face! Nothing quite like it, is there, Dwight? 

Congratulations--that was an impressive first outing for a new locomotive and its engineer. After a few more runs, things will become second nature, and you can begin to relax and enjoy the railroad as you go. And, keep that same cap for running. We will want to watch it change color (darker) as you and your engine put on the miles. 

Larry


----------



## Jim Schulz (Aug 10, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Very nice Dwight. You are fortunate to have someone along for the ride to show you the ropes. Thanks to all those live steam mentors who are willing to give advice and lend a helping hand.


----------



## scubaroo (Mar 19, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Congratulations Dwight,
Great to see her on her maiden run.
Sounds incredible.
Enjoy Mate!!
Craig


----------



## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
The engine looks and sounds great, all that hard work (and $$$) has paid off..Congratulations on a job well done.....


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Great show Dwight!! The CP has a very nice deep throated sound to it. All the stiffness will work out and the drivers will bite better over time. Don't forget the cab!!

Super nice. Bob


----------



## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Congrats Dwight. Glad your having alot of fun









Tommy








Rio Gracie


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Drum roll please...

Part 1 of the full video of my 4-4-0's maiden run on Friday 08/20, and my first time running anything bigger than 1:20th scale and running a coal burner. A pretty stiff throttle made it very hard not to occasionally spin the drivers and hard to find the "sweet spot" (just so I don't look like a complete newbie - hehehe). This got fixed later in the day, making her easier to handle.

We took her back up to GGLS yesterday and ran her some more. I felt a lot more comfortable yesterday than I did on Friday, and was much better able to control her and keep my pressure up, water up, fire burning well, etc. We also met a very nice couple up there yesterday who were throwing their son a birthday party. They even invited us to have lunch, and we had a whale of a good time.

All told, we ran her about 5 hours on Friday, and another two or three hours yesterday. Jesse flies out this morning, ending a weekend I'll remember for the rest of my life!



If you're a glutton for punishment, Part 2 of the video will follow later today or tomorrow.


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, that's just super. A wonderful reward for all the work, sweat and joy that went into the project.









Great vids..


----------



## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Awesome project. The video is evidence of spectacular results. Congratulations Dwight.


----------



## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It gets better and better. Your excellent work shows. Keep the video's coming, they're priceless. Dwight, you've got to be jazzed.


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That's really cool! Looks like it ran beautifully. Hot steam in the face looks like it could be an issue--or part of the fun! 

Is that at the Golden Gate live steamers in Oakland?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Gents... here's Part 2...



Mike - the steam isn't hot, but it completely fogs my glasses making it so I can't see. I'm gonna get a pair of over-the-glasses goggles.

If you watch Jesse's run in the second video, you'll see there's very little smoke - much less than on my run. He knows how to properly maintain the fire and gets a good, hot, clean burning fire with very little smoke. Hopefully, I'll learn to do that with time and practice.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Very cool Dwight. Looks like you done well. Sounds good and looks good. Looks like in the first vid you got to rolling at a pretty good clip. Yikes. Well done Dwight. Later RJD


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Outstanding video! Recorded for posterity. You have a strong little engine there and it sounds "healthy'. You did incredibly well for the first time out. IMHO coal firing is the most difficult firing to learn. Once you get really proficient with your engine, it will be become like a Sunday drive and you can enjoy the runs, the breeze and take in the sights along the railroad. GGLS reminds me a lot of LALS track. BTW, we will be having our Fall Meet October 1st, 2nd and 3rd 2010. How about loading her up and trying out our railroad. Love to have you and congratulate you in person. Project well done! Thanks for posting the videos.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Once again, my thanks to everyone for all the kind words! I was hoping to post a 3rd video of my "coaching lap" where Jesse sat behind me and told me exactly what to do almost every minute... unfortunately, I discovered this morning that *we forgot to record it!!!*







Not only am I pissed because I can't review it myself, but also because it gave a real insight into what's involved in running one of these things and all the stuff one has to constantly pay attention to... stuff I figure the folks here would find of real interest I'm *REALLY* disappointed!!

Anyway, some final photos from Friday's maiden run...























































My good buddy, boilermaker, and steaming mentor Jesse Banning of JD Locomotive Works, Las Vegas, without whom none of this may well have been possible.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

During the time Jesse was running the engine and you were videoing behind him, he was constantly doing something to the engine we can't see. What is it that requires all that fiddling? I know part of it must have been messing with the fire because he always had full steam. What else was he doing up there?


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 22 Aug 2010 11:16 AM 
..... BTW, we will be having our Fall Meet October 1st, 2nd and 3rd 2010. How about loading her up and trying out our railroad. Love to have you and congratulate you in person. Project well done! Thanks for posting the videos. 
Gary...is the Fall Meet open to the public?


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hey Dwight,
Look'in good there! I notice that, for operating sessions, you remove the cab for access to the controls. Was this a decision that you made or was it part of the design? The reason I ask is that I have seen 7­­½" gauge engines at the Colorado Live Steamer's Open House that had the cab sides still attached but had a removable roof to allow access. I assume it's a matter of aesthetics but I was curious. (Heck, who am I kidding? I'm jealous!!)


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I would think that the reason for no cab at this time is that it's a shake-down run and having open and easy access to everything was more important than anything else, and after all the kinks get worked out and it then becomes the routine matter of running the engine it'll be time then to seat the cab.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Mikey, 

Regarding the Fall Meet, usually it is NOT open to the public-ONLY to those members of other live steam clubs. You can tell them at the gate you are a friend of mine or if you know when you are going to be there, I can meet you there. E-mail me and I will get you the particulars. 

Mike, there IS an awful lot of "fiddling" going on when you run these. In a coal-burner, there is more to do because of the fire. Oil burners, you get the fire "set", atomizer working good and a very, very faint hint of smoke haze at the stack. With the coal fired loco, you are almost constantly doing something with the fire-distributing the coal over the grates, checking for "clinkers", putting a scoop or two in the firebox to maintain the pressure and adding water to keep the water glass at "half-glass". When to turn on the injector to add water-so it at the wrong time and you will lose pressure. Maybe Dwight will join in to answer some of these questions. When I run a coal-fired engine now, much of thid is automatic for me. It's difficult for me to point to all of the things going on. Depends on the railroad also-grades, drifting downhill, etc. Also the traffic on the railroad-keeping your eye on the signals and switches AND other trains. Now you can understand why Dwight said he was happy BUT TIRED that first day. 


Steve Stockham,

Dwight mentioned he was building a cab for his "baby". Usually the cab foof is hinged up and totally removed while running. On my friends Mogul and my ten-wheeler, the roof stays in place with a large opening to get access to valves, throttle, Johnson Bar and the firebox door and be able to see the pressure gauge and sight glass.


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Ahh! That would explain it! I jumped the gun...


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Mikey - as Gary says, there's a lot of stuff happening all the time. Raking the fire to clear ash and clinkers so it can "breathe" and distributing the coal so it's even, adding a scoop or two of coal, minding the throttle and blower for the changing track conditions, and minding the water gauge. Mine doesn't have injectors - I have two crosshead pumps, each with a bypass line. Whenever the loco is moving, those crosshead pumps are pumping water into the boiler. While the prototypes would control the water input to the pumps, mine uses bypass valves instead to direct some or most of the output water back into the tender. With both bypass valves closed, all the water goes to the boiler. 
These pumps don't just affect water level. After running her, the problem isn't overfilling the boiler as I originally thought, but rather the loss of steam pressure due to constantly lowering the water temperature in the boiler with fresh, cold water. Partially or fully opening the bypass valves redirects some or most of the water back to the tender and allows pressure to rebuild even though you are running, so as you approach a known grade, opening the bypasses will alow you to build a full head of steam necessary to take the grade and have good pressure as you crest. Jesse is constantly fiddling with the fire and the bypass valves, and the result is still popping the safeties at the top of the grade instead of ending up with 40 psi as was happening to me.







Between you and me and the lamp post, Jesse is also a "tweaker" and likes to stay occupied - hehehe.







Whatever the cause, the results speak for themselves.

Steve - while the loco is now operational, she's still far from finished! First thing is tender brakes, as I can't run at most places (even GGLS) without them. I need to make the shoes and brake beams, clevises, and the mounting fixtures, install them and hook them up, and get them functional.

I haven't even begun to design the cab or cowcatcher yet, much less start building them. I want to play with her for a while, not only for inspiration to keep going, but also to see what I may want or need to change or modify. When the rains come, I plan to tear her back down. I want to make another boiler jacket as I'm not 100% happy with the current one, and that will affect the boiler cutout in the cab. I will need to make new running boards after making the jacket as the fit of the boards against the jacket will undoubtedly change. I also want to edge them with brass half-round. The domes need to be smoothed, buffed, and painted.

There's a slew of parts I want to send out for plating - either brass or gold (doesn't tarnish) - all the parts such as handrail stanchions, headlight rim, headlight brackets, crosshead pumps, etc are cast bronze, as are all the tees and elbows, and the globe valve bodies. While the handrails, dome centers, boiler bands, water pipes, turret, future half-round edgings, etc. are already brass, gold plating would cut down on polishing maintenance as well (I'm essentially lazy). 

Eventually, I want to make an entire new tender with a brass tank and wooden frame that more closely resembles the prototype. As I've already decided not to make her a "CP" locomotive and instead to "Baldwin-ize" her, I want to try and make the arced angle cowcatcher as is seen on Sonoma in the California Railway Museum.

Still a buttload of things to do.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Oh yeah Gary - if I have the brakes installed and the vacation time, I wouldn't mind coming down in the Fall. I do want to attend the Nov. SWGRS though since I opted not to go to the one in June. Thanks for the invite. If I can't make this one, I'll surely make a future one.


----------



## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

*Congratulations, Dwight! *







(& like Steve, I'm jealous!







). Appearance-wise, what you've done so far on her looks *great. *







Definitely looks like she's cut out for *express passenger service *







- looks like you and Jesse both had her up in the range of a scale *60 ~ 100 MPH! *














Love that *"stack talk" *







as well - she's got a *"bark" *that would give a pit bull envy!









A couple of questions, just to satisfy my curiosity - about how much does she weigh (I'm going guess at least a couple hundred pounds







), & how do you transport her







I know a lot of the larger live-steam clubs have hydraulic lifts to facilitate loading/ unloading these beasts.

Keep the photos & videos coming, looks like you've got a winner there!







*Tom*


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Tom. I think I've posted all the vids and photos for a while.









Your guess pretty closely matches my guess. From carrying the original parts, I'd put the chassis around 125 pounds or so, and the boiler around 75 pounds empty. That puts estimated empty weight somewhere around 200-225 pounds (allowing for other additional components). Not sure how much water the boiler holds, but it's at least several gallons, and water is heavy. The tender weighs probably another 50 pounds empty, and it also holds several gallons of water (not to mention my fat ass).

She fits comfortably in my RAV 4 with the rear seats removed - the loco lengthwise on one side and the tender on the other. I still have room left over for a couple of toolboxes, a sack of coal, cameras, and other odds and ends.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
It's always great to see something after spending many many hours building a dream. Looks like you had the time of your life! 
I do appreciate you posting your video's it gives all of something to see that is you dream coming true. 
It was the right thing you having Jesse come out.
So you go a new nick name CASEY?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight Ennis: Well done! Keep that smile as long as you can get it to last! You are also allowed a few popped buttons off'n yer shirt! Proud of ya!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks guys 
So you go a new nick name CASEY?Blame the stiff throttle (that's my story and I'm stickin' to it)! 
You are also allowed a few popped buttons off'n yer shirt!My stomach perhaps. hehehe


----------



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

my deepest congratulation to your very succesfull maiden run as I see it. 
I'm sure you enjoied the moment your steamer comes to live. Isn't it a great feeling to run such a steam engine? 

I'm very impatienly for my first steam up of the Shay. I hope it will happen next spring or maybe even this winter. 

All I can say is : enjoy the big steamers and keep an eye on your smaller stuff. I lost most fascination for Fn3 scale since I'm working in 2"-scale. 

Cheers, Gerd


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Gerd! I've been following your Shay build with great interest.









I know many lose interest in Fn3 after moving to ride-ons. I don't think that will happen to me, but I learned a long time ago never to say "never."


----------



## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

August 25, 2010

Hi Dwight:

Are 3-1/2" and 5" gauge track locos ran at your club?
Does your club have a web site?
Do you live near Accucraft, could you speak with Bing regarding the possibility of Accucraft producing 3-1/2" and 5" gauge track locos ?
OS engines no longer produces the 3-1/2" gauge track Porter. Maybe now too expensive to build in Japan. But the Porter and an American 4-4-0 in 3-1/2" gauge track would be affordable if produced by Accucraft of China.
Is there a demand for 3-1/2" and 5" gauge track locos at your club and elsewhere in the United States ?

Thank you for posting the videos of your 4-4-0. I really enjoyed that.

Norman


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Norman - the GGLS club has 2-1/2", 3-1/2", and 4-3/4" guage track on a good-sized elevated loop, and 4-3/4" and 7-1/2" gauge track on the ground. Their web site is *http://www.ggls.org/*.

I do live near Accucraft, though I don't get up there much. They are planning to produce a 7-1/2" gauge Forney similar to the Ruby Forney in 1:20.3, and they already produce a 4-3/4" gauge Hunslet {sp?} and a 7-1/2" gauge Plymouth electric. I'm not sure how popular 5" gauge is in the U.S., and 3-1/2" gauge seems to be falling out of favor as well here. Maybe that's why O.S. stopped making them - poor sales. At any rate, it may be Accucraft will produce those sizes for markets other than the U.S. As for speaking to Bing, I've been after him to produce the live steam Heisler for a decade, so you can see how much pull I have. hehehe


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight:

Great club track layout. 

An Ottawa local magazine dealer "advised" Accucraft to build the Royal Hudson instead of the Canadian Pacific 2816. I understand why as he is an immigrant from England to Canada. However, the result is Accucraft _still _ has Royal Husdon locos in stock. The Canadian Pacific 2816 would have sold out. Bing is getting his advice from the wrong source!

Aster is of no use to me due to their product pricing levels.

OS Engines already produces product for 7-1/2" gauge. 

Accucraft builds a high quality product at an affordable price.

I could have bought a used 3-1/2" gauge Hudson but the loco alone weighs around 120 lbs empty.
A 2-1/2" gauge Hudson weighs only appox 60 lbs.

My desire is that I can personally carry my locos to place on the track or store away. 
Personally I can see a market for 2-1/2" guage mainline steam and 3-1/2" guage narrow gauge 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 locos as both sizes are still manageable and both sizes can pull their operator. If the product existed, it may eventually out sell Guage 1 as the operator can ride behind the loco just as you can with your 4-4-0.

The present problem is custom machining is required to obtain these 2-1/2" guage mainline steam and 3-1/2" guage models which is of course cost prohibitive.

If Accucraft offered a 2-1/2" guage track line, a NYC J1e 5343 Hudson would be an easy sell.

Norman


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Quickie update: Spent the weekend designing and making making brake shoes. Three shoes done so far to this point - five to go.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Those are beautiful shoes! Isn't the NC mill nice?!!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Gary. For a pattern, I used a Hartford Products 1:20.3 shoe and scaled it up.










Yeah, CNC is a Godsend. Still, the part must be drawn up and the g-code written and debugged, the material secured and the machine set up, so even with CNC it isn't "wham-bam-thank you ma'am."


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight
Great engineers outfit!! I am anticipating rides and/or engineer for the day sessions at next year's NSS: the parking lot out front is just right for a circle of track- sign me up!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

I agree it's not "wham bam-thank you mam". But it sure beats the old fashioned way! When our customers sent us drawings for forging dies, they always were interested in just how fast they would be ready for production. The drawing and surfacing on MasterCAM, running the toolpaths and verifying AND set-up were never completely understood by our clients. They always thought because it was done by computer, that they could mail the prints and a day later, have the dies delivered. Yeah, right! MasterCAM runs post-processors embedded in the software to generate code for the particular machine and controller. NO handwriting of the G code. For a very short program I could write the code, but for a complicated surface or solid model die, you could be looking at 100,000 lines of code or much more!

The scaling factor is a BIG plus in NC machining.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The scaling factor is a BIG plus in NC machining.Not sure what you're referring to, but I just took a pair of calipers to Hartford's brake show and multiplied everything by 20/8.







Most of my routines are pretty short - less than 100 lines.

Charles - playing adult dress-up is all part of the fun!! hehehe







As for next year's NSS, I just need to see if Cliff will supply the track and maybe one or two riding cars.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

I probably misunderstood what you did. I thought you were saying you drew a 1/20.3 shoe and then scaled that drawing to 1/8. This is how I made all my rolling stock for my ten-wheeler. Scaled HO models up to 1/8. Most cad programs can do that as you probably are aware. I'm doing that now with my 1/20.3 stuff off of drawings in some D&RGW books I have. "A Century + Ten of D&RGW Freight Cars" by Sloan.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gary - in retrospect, it would have been easier to draw it 1:1 (1:20) and scale it up. For a guy who used AutoCAD daily for 20+ years, you'd think I would have thought of that.







However, all's well that ends well I suppose. hehehe

To get coordinates, I use a series of ID commands tracing the desired tool path (maybe 20 at a time). I then pull up the text screen and copy the results, then past them into a notepad file that looks like this...

*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.365 Y = -0.057 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.365 Y = -0.414 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.328 Y = -0.767 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.328 Y = -1.053 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.548 Y = -1.383 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.778 Y = -1.383 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.778 Y = -0.980 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.965 Y = -0.980 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -0.965 Y = -1.280 Z = 0.000*


*Command:
ID Specify point: X = -1.215 Y = -1.280 Z = 0.000*

I then run a little VB program I wrote that extracts the coordinates and gets rid of everything else, and saves that to another text file. I end up with this...

*X-0.365 Y-0.057 Z0.000
X-0.365 Y-0.414 Z0.000
X-0.328 Y-0.767 Z0.000
X-0.328 Y-1.053 Z0.000
X-0.548 Y-1.383 Z0.000
X-0.778 Y-1.383 Z0.000
X-0.778 Y-0.980 Z0.000
X-0.965 Y-0.980 Z0.000
X-0.965 Y-1.280 Z0.000
X-1.215 Y-1.280 Z0.000

*It's then a fairly simple matter to add in the G-commands on each line and edit the Z-axis cut depths as required. Arcs require additional offsets which I get with Acad's dimension commands.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I gotcha. Seems to work well. I became very spoiled when I started to do toolpaths on MasterCAM. The software runs the cutter size you choose (even off-the-wall sizes of cutters we re-sharpened!) around the center/line or offset eithe right or left. If you like it and looks good, you then run the post-processor (in my case it was either a Haas V2 or Haas V4 mill or our huge Seaburg with the 180 inch X axis! Done! But I've been retired now for over seven years and things have changed I'm sure!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

When I first started making parts for #21 on my Sherline, I tried out several "freeware" CAM post-processors. None did a very good job as far as I was concerned, and the parts were simple 2D cutouts of sheet brass. That's when I abandoned CAM packages and started coding more or less by hand. I'd love to have a good software package that would generate code from a drawing, but they are expensive - far more than I'm willing to pay at this point. Mark Scrivener seems to like CamBam. The trouble right now is I want to make parts, not learn a new software package. 

Mach3, which came with my larger CNC milling machine, had "wizards" which can generate code for some common tasks - bolt circles, circular and rectangular pockets, etc. Other than to play with them while testing out the machine, I haven't fooled with them much.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

If you can break down your drawing into ciircular sections and straight line sections, an inexpensive post would be very helpful. It's when you start getting into splines and more complicated geometry, that the post is really needed. The posts we had for the Haas was about the price of an Accucraft live steam K36! The Seaburg post had to be "built" by a post-processor consultant-a few thousand bucks! Posts to process 4-axis and up, are tremendously expensive. All part of the industry.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The posts we had for the Haas was about the price of an Accucraft live steam K36!That's just what I'm talking about! 

When I was making the cab for #21, there's a 1/4 ellipse/spline curve where the angled cab wall meets the roof radius. As the part was small and the curve even smaller, I just used a series of short straight steps about 0.020" long each. No point in laying out a series of arcs on something so small. You couldn't have told the difference anyway.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Even the post for the Haas CAN be forced to generate ONLY small straight line segments if you want it to. Generating arcs makes for a smaller program. Sometimes we would run a program through a "filter" to clean up some of the smaller line segments (.001-005"). You will never see that difference to the naked eye. But for Nurbs Surfaces, on a large surface (6" square or 3 feet by 5 feet) , you would be surprised how they show up. AND when the inspector is using a CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine) to check the surface to 3 to 5 decimal places, then it can be the difference. Another world.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The locomotive had her second run yesterday and I had my first "Solo." I took her up to GGLS to get her boiler certification and safety inspection. She passed both with flying colors. Afterward I took her for a run - several laps around the inner loop with the 2% grade. I'm learning to manage the steam pressure - properly tending the coal fire and managing the Johnson Bar and bypass valves. By the second lap I was still popping the safety at 100 psi at the top of the grade.









Since I was by myself, I only took three photos with my phone after the run while she was cooling down...










I really need to cut down that water pump handle. It's far too long and right in the way.

A fellow member, John Smith, had his gorgeous "Tahoe" there yesterday. His father built it back in the 60's and it's all polished stainless steel. I love the pin striping on the tender and cab! Just beautiful!!










John is the guy on the right.










I hope mine looks half as good someday!


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Both are beautiful, I would love to have a ride on engine, just dream 
I quess, for I couldn't even aford the track to run it on.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Beautiful shots Dwight!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Making Brake Shoes:

Here's the process involved in making the brake shoes so far. The first part was done using CNC capability. After designing and drawing up the shoes based upon scaled-up Hartford Products 1:20.3 shoes, the g-code was written and machining begun.

I made four shoes at a time to reduce the setups required, and made them from a piece of 0.375" x 3.00" 6061 aluminum which was drilled to mount to the milling table. The material was indexed to the central hole using a center finder. The first step involved drilling out the shoe mounting holes and milling out the shoe face (as opposed to the brake pad) to a depth of 0.050" with a 0.250" mill on the first side. Two passes were made, each removing 0.025" of material. The second step was to mill out the detail section to a depth of 0.060" past the face (total depth 0.110") with an 0.062" mill. In this case, only 0.010" of material was removed on each pass due to the small diameter of the tool, so six passes were required.

At this point, the material was flipped over and re-indexed to the same hole with the center finder. The first two steps are repeated on Side 2 (except for drilling the holes).

Step 1 & 3 - milling out the shoe face...










The shoe mounting holes drilled in Side 1 aren't visible because I didn't drill them through initially. This required finish drilling the completed shoes. On the second set of shoes, I modified the code to drill all the way through.

Step 2 & 4 - milling out the detail cut...










Step 5 is to actually cut out the shoes from the solid piece of material. This was done with an 0.250" end mill, again taking 0.025" of material off per pass. The last two passes took off slightly less. Total passes per shoe was 16.










The first set of shoes were made on my small Sherline milling machine, but partway through cutting out the first set, the stepper controller board crapped out. This forced me to use the larger newer machine. I've been avoiding that because it uses completely different software, and I've been more interested in making parts then in learning to use a different program. However, having no choice, I bit the bullet and plunged in. It turns out that Mach3 is very easy to use and learn, and after solving a few initial problems with the machine settings, I actually like it better than the program that came with the Sherline. In face, I'll probably switch the Sherline machines over to using it. For one thing, it runs under Windows, so all my Acad drawing, g-code writing, and machine execution can be done on the same machine. It also runs on my notebook under USB control, so the computer takes a lot less space and is completely portable. I can draw parts and write code on the couch in front of the tube, and simulate the machine operations and debug right then and there. When everything is correct, I can carry the notebook out to the garage, plug in the milling machine, and I'm off and running.









Anyway, back to the shoes. After some cleanup with small files, the finished shoes at this stage look like the photo previously posted...










Next, the notch where the shoe mounts to the brake beam needs to be squared up. Because of the profile of the shoes, this notch isn't straight up and down with the shoe sitting on the corners of the brake pads, so I needed to make a couple of fixture plates with the correct profile.










These fixture plates align two shoes side by side when clamped in the milling vice, allowing me to do two shoes at a time in "matched sets." This operation was done manually...



















Here are two shoes finished to this point...










The last step to complete the shoes will be to taper the pads to match the wheel treads. This will require an additional fixture. I already have it drawn up and the g-code written to produce it, so I'll probably start it tomorrow.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*








Outstanding Dwight!

That Mach3 software worked pretty nice for you. Ran your toolpaths, debugged AND beautiful parts!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Damn Dwight! from raw metal to real stuff! Looking good! 

Very impressive. I'll bet you sort of wished you went to the new machine sooner, now you know it was not that big a deal! 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks guys. I do like the new machine and Mach3 a lot! However, there are still places for the Sherline equipment which is exceptional at making small parts. As I said, I will probably switch the Sherline stuff over to Mach3 - basically I just need to make up some mating connectors when I get a chance. The EMC2 software which came with the Sherlines has several drawbacks. Two of the main ones are (a) it runs on Linux, which I can't stand (with all deference to you Greg), and which requires an entirely different and dedicated computer, and (b) it has very limited subroutine capability. It was great software to learn on, but I think I've gone a bit beyond it now.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight: The CNC work on the brake shoes is gorgeous. You CP will be "jazzed" better then the "Tahoe" before long. Are you going to do some fancy pin stripe on the tender tank?

Now that it's got a few hours of running, does everything seem to be "wearing in" OK?


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

See Dwight a Old Dog like you can still learn New Tricks.....LOL


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Bob!







Yeah, everything seems fine! I've already decided I need to move the main water supply lines on the tender "outboard" more towards the front corners, and I want to make a longer throttle lever. One of the advantages of "playing with it" for a while before doing any final finishing is to see where changes are either necessary or simply desirable. Eventually I'd like to do Baldwin "Style 1" pin striping on the tender, domes, and headlight at least, and perhaps on other parts like the cylinders, pilot deck, etc. Vinyl lettering and striping may be the way to go here, and I've heard others use vinyl in this scale with great success. Suggestions?


See Dwight a Old Dog like you can still learn New Tricks.....LOLKinda gives even an old fart like you new hope doesn't it?


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 10 Sep 2010 06:35 PM 


Thanks Bob!







Yeah, everything seems fine! I've already decided I need to move the main water supply lines on the tender "outboard" more towards the front corners, and I want to make a longer throttle lever. One of the advantages of "playing with it" for a while before doing any final finishing is to see where changes are either necessary or simply desirable. Eventually I'd like to do Baldwin "Style 1" pin striping on the tender, domes, and headlight at least, and perhaps on other parts like the cylinders, pilot deck, etc. Vinyl lettering and striping may be the way to go here, and I've heard others use vinyl in this scale with great success. Suggestions?


See Dwight a Old Dog like you can still learn New Tricks.....LOLKinda gives even an old fart like you new hope doesn't it?












Good news on the mechanicals. GGLS has a lot of expetise, you'll be getting a lot of ideas as you snoop around the steaming bays.

My buddy over in Pahrump put vinyl letting on some rolling stock about a year ago and he says it holds up very well in the hot/dry climate. It should work just fine in your area. He used some kind of cutter/printer thing attached to the PC, not sure what however. 

The way Jesse welded the boiler, it should last a century.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The way Jesse welded the boiler, it should last a century.So long as it outlasts me, I'm happy. hehehe


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

*Tapering the Brake Pads:*

The last step in making the brake shoes was to taper the pads. As the taper needs to form a cone, one can't just carve it out with a simple 3-axis CNC million operation such as I have because the shoes themselves needs to rotate. Fortunately, I had purchased Sherline's rotary table some time back which I have never needed until now. While it _IS_ set up for CNC with a stepper motor on it, I haven't yet replaced the stepper controller in the Sherline computer. Luckily, only manual operation was needed for this operation and I used the big machine.

The first step was to make a fixture that would bolt to the rotary table and securely hold two shoes aligned on the correct arc and at the correct radius away from the center. I designed up a little fixture and used the CNC to pop it out. It has holes for bolting to the rotary table, two threaded holes to bolt down the shoes, and pockets to accept the overhang of the brake pads.










Two shoes sitting in the fixture.










The fixture mounted to the rotary table and milling machine. The wheel drawings say the wheels are tapered at 2°-50'. I had originally planned to tilt the milling head, but while buying some mills from Rutland Tool, I happened upon a 3° tapered mill... close enough for government work!










The fixture was centered with respect to the spindle with a center finder (the mounting bolt was center drilled in the lathe)...










And we're all set to taper the brake pads...










The finished pair of shoes, except for drilling and tapping the brake beam mounting holes. I numbered them in sets - 1-2-3-4 - and each set will mount to one brake beam.










Next on the list are the brake beams and hangers.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

Just a quick question, wouldn't it been better to have the shoes removable from the brackets so replacing them is easier? 


Andre


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Not sure I understand your question Andre, but if you're referring to removable pads, I don't expect to ever wear these out. The two runs I've made (well over a couple of actual miles now minimum just on the first day) have been made with no brakes at all. They aren't used often enough to inflict any great wear on them, and when they are used, it doesn't take much to stop this thing, so again, little wear will result. While I could be wrong, at this point I'll be real surprised if I ever need to replace them.


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Those brake shoes will outlast the engine and the engineer. On my 4-4-0, the engine brakes were operated by a lever in the cab, with a 7/1 lever ratio, and could lock the drivers with one finger pulling. 

That tapered endmill must be for putting a draft angle on molds/dies? Whatcha think, Gary? 

Dwight, you aren't gonna abandon the rest of us with the wee steamers now, are you? I no longer burn the Pocahontas coal in my engines, but do haul a gon full of it, crushed to 1:20.3 scale. 

Larry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yup Larry, that was a common cutter for our use daily. Spiral cutter to boot!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, you aren't gonna abandon the rest of us with the wee steamers now, are you?No Larry, I don't think there's any danger of that. hehehe It is an unfortunate fact that the only steamup I've managed to attend this year was the NSS, but that was due to a variety of reasons, and not because I no longer have any interest.I no longer burn the Pocahontas coal in my enginesAny particular reason for that? After I went through the Pocahontas you sent me, I've been burning Australian Char that I had a buddy bring back for me from Train Mountain last year. It seems to burn a lot hotter and cleaner. I'd like to get some more of it if I can find some.


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight...in your statement "I had originally planned to tilt the milling head, but while buying some mills from Rutland Tool, I happened upon a 3° tapered mill... close enough for government work!"

Is this actual Rutland Tool listing with their sometimes criptic descriptions, does the "3 Taper" in their description, "Prestige Plus 3/16" Mill Dia. x 3/8" Shank Dia. x 3-1/8" OAL Uncoated High Speed Steel 3 Taper End Mill , mean 3 degrees? Just wondering?

BTW, clever holding fixture and superb work!! FWIW...I get nearly the same satisfaction in designing and making the fixtures as machining the final product.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, a few years back, I sold both of my 1 1/2" steamers to friends. After 40-some years in the ride-on scales, my back and joints made moving the engines and rolling stock no fun any more, and the nearest club track is 85 miles away from where I now live. By contrast, I was only 13 miles from NJLS. So, that is why I no longer have a use for the Pocahontas coal. 

Never heard of Australian Char. Where does Train Mountain get their supply? How does it smell? Over the years, we experimented with coals from various sources, and some of the smoke would choke you. The Pocahontas has a pleasant sweet smell, part of the fun of coal firing. 

Larry


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Howard - I have no idea if the description you posted means a 3 degree taper - it could refer to shank taper. At any rate, I have one of their paper bound catalogs, and on a page are tapered end mills with the taper listed. I prefer to hunt for things in the catalog, then search for a known part number when ordering online. Their online search function ain't the best unless you know the part number.


I agree, designing and making fixtures can be more challenging than making the actual part.










Larry - I have no idea where Train Mountain gets it or where it's from. I got a tip from a friend last year that another friend was up at Train Mountain and they were selling coal, and I should call the guy and have him bring me back a 50 lb bag, so I did. It was Jesse who told me what kind of coal it was. It produces very little smoke and very little ash, and I have yet to see a clinker using it (though in all fairness, I've only fired a few times so far).


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Maybe I can help with this. The cutter in the photo is a straight shank cutter. Therefore the taper noted is a 3 degree draft cutter (talking about the cutting angle only). That's what they mean in the catalog. IMHO


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gary, the description I quoted was Rutland Tool's internet site description. The internet descriptions, as I stated earlier, are somewhat criptic. Sounds like you have their catalog in front of you, so if you would please, give me the Part number of a cutter that has the 3 degree taper notation and I'll tie it down it that way. 

Thanks


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Howard - Rutland has an online Flash version of their catalog (in addition to their web site). Go to the *online catalog* and in the navigation bar at top, put in page number *247* and hit *Enter*. That's the page with the tapered end mills I used. They also continue on pg. 248. You'll need Adobe Flash Player to use this (I'm sure you probably already have it). Holler if you have problems.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Howard,

Here is the page I'm looking at right now. Pretty easy to find the cutter you may need. You are correct that the catalogue number has absolutrly no relationship to the draft. Hope I can bet this link to show for you.

Rutland Online Catalog - Page 247[/b]

Go to page #247.

Apparently, MLS in it's infinite wisdom wants to shorten the link. If you click this link above and look at the box to the left, click on CUTTERS. Then go to page 247. Good luck. Let me know what you get and if you can make this link work. Its frustrating on here!!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Beat ya to it Gary.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I gotta quit typing with ONE finger!!! You got it Dwight. Thank you.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I gotta quit typing with ONE finger!!! Try using both index fingers. hehehe


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Gary & Dwight. That solved the problem.....the internet descriptions for tapered mills show a 3 and the same part number in the Catalog says 3 degrees. Probably they ran out or room in their internet description field. Again thanks for your efforts.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Happy to help Howard.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

*Brakes - con'd:*

With the brake shoes done, it was time to make the beams to mount them to. When I scaled up the Hartford Products Fn3 shoe, the beam mounting notch came out to 7/16,so that's what I made mine. When it came time to actually make the beams, I discovered that the aluminum I could get in 7/16 was somewhat limited, so I decided to start with 7/16 x 3/4 6061 bar stock. That meant I had to shave it down 1/16, so I used a fly cutter to take 1/32 off each side.










Next I made a jig to hold the material so I could cut the profile.










The beam stock was drilled for the shoe and clevis mounting, and I drilled the holes undersized and tapped them 5-40. That let me bolt them to the jig.










Then on to cutting the beam profile. Taking 20 mils off on each pass, it took a while to cut through the 7/16 thickness, but resulted in a nice finish on the cuts.










While each beam was still in the jig, I swapped to a 1/16th corner rounding mill and milled the radius on the outside edges.










When all the machining was done, I opened up the three holes for a 5-40 clearance.










Lastly, I milled a 3/8 wide by 15 mil deep slot on each end to locate the shoes. A finished beam...










Here's a finished beam brake beam with the shoes temporarily mounted...



















I'm going to mount the shoes with 5-40 threaded rod and make some wedge washers and square nuts out of brass. Once that's done it's on to the brake hangers.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 


It keeps looking better and better each time you post the latest up dates, keep up the beautiful work. 



Just wondering, wouldn't it have been better to make the brake shoes out of something a little harder than aluminum? Or make the shoes them selves separate from the bracket so that they would have been easier to replace? I was just wondering on the logic behind the use of aluminum for the shoes them selves rather than something harder such as steel or iron.

Andre


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Andre!








Just wondering, wouldn't it have been better to make the brake shoes out of something a little harder than aluminum? Or make the shoes them selves separate from the bracket so that they would have been easier to replace? I was just wondering on the logic behind the use of aluminum for the shoes them selves rather than something harder such as steel or iron.I already answered that on the last page.








... but if you're referring to removable pads, I don't expect to ever wear these out. The two runs I've made (well over a couple of actual miles now minimum just on the first day) have been made with no brakes at all. They aren't used often enough to inflict any great wear on them, and when they are used, it doesn't take much to stop this thing, so again, little wear will result. While I could be wrong, at this point I'll be real surprised if I ever need to replace them.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Aluminum shoes work very well. On our Allen mogul, we used alum shoes. They WILL wear. But we pulled the public at LALS every other weekend for four to five hours each day and probably heavier trains than you will have with the American. Remember you CAN use the Johnson Bar to control a lot of you speed. I remember when we first got the mogul and we were brand new to running large scale trains, we were running at night. Coming down the long trestle, on a 3% grade with a heavy train, we found that the engine brakes just were not holding the train back. Talked to an old-timer that night and he said to use the Johnson Bar to assist the engine brakes. Just notch it back, past neutral toward reverse. Worked like a charm!
Damn you do fine work! Very nice!


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

BE EVER SO CAREFUL.... Putting the johnson bar into reverse while moving forward is a great way to blow a cylinder head off... or bend a main rod.

More than one 1:1 engineer found homself trying to explain why the main rod of the engine was bent into a horseshoe shape...

A better idea would be to increase the valve opening. At higher speeds, the reverser was brought closer to top dead center. This was to reduce the amount of time steam was being admitted into the cylinders. While this harnessed the expansion power of steam over the pressure, it also reduced the back pressure in the cylinder when it went into the exhaust stroke. 


By opening up the reverser towards full stroke, the pressure in teh cylinder remains higher, and the amoun t of work needed to exhaust the steam becomes more higher, causing the rods to steal momentum from the wheels, acting much like a diesel's dynamic brake, or the Jake brake on a truck... in effect you ARE down-shifting the steamer.


Keep in mind, my knowledge is 1:1 based, not model, so your ability to use the reverser in reverse MIGHT work without damage... but I personally wouldn't try it with such a beautiful engine.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I NEVER threw the bar into into FULL REVERSE. On a small engine like I'm talking about, you won't blow a cylinder head OR bend a main rod. You're explanation was much better than mine. What you do have to be careful of on a model, is the tendency to have steam lift the slide valves off the ports in the steam chest. Even a model can be damaged that way! You should have put a caveat with my explanation to use finesse when using the Johnson Bar along with a gentle touch to the throttle AND to do these things WAAAAY before you need to. Plan ahead so to speak.


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 20 Sep 2010 01:39 PM 
I NEVER threw the bar into into FULL REVERSE. On a small engine like I'm talking about, you won't blow a cylinder head OR bend a main rod. You're explanation was much better than mine. What you do have to be careful of on a model, is the tendency to have steam lift the slide valves off the ports in the steam chest. Even a model can be damaged that way! You should have put a caveat with my explanation to use finesse when using the Johnson Bar along with a gentle touch to the throttle AND to do these things WAAAAY before you need to. Plan ahead so to speak. 
What could cause of the slide valves to lift off the ports in the steam chest? This happened to my engine once, but it happened seemingly out of nowhere. About 3 weeks ago I let my friend take my 1" pacific for a run, and while going uphill the steam suddenly started going straight to the exhaust. Someone suggested that the slide valve lifted from the port, so I let the engine sit for probably 20 minutes. It had about 20psi left afterwards - enough pressure to see if the problem was still there - and everything was working normally. It was both the first and last time i've had the problem.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Anthony, 

I have heard that a sloppy packing gland for the slide valve rod can cause this problem.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight 

Sorry about asking the same question twice, I looked at the shoes bolted to the beams and thought "why aren't they removable and why aluminum" so I asked the question my only excuse was I had a brain fade. Again I apologize for the same question twice. 

Andre


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Don't worry about it Andre. I have brain farts all the time! hehehe


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Fly-cutting is what stripped the gears in my mill. I figured if I was taking a big bite it would stop the head (and possibly break the gear train) but I didn't think it would do so when I was just barely scaring the surface on a first pass to see if I had everything aligned. The "interrupted cut" done when fly-cutting is really hard on the machine; your's is obviously much better made than mine. I hesitate to even try it anymore.

I have rounded a rectangular aluminium bar on my lathe without problems (well, except for the hideous noise and shaking tools off the bench!) and I think the gear train is very similar in my mill and lathe, so I am not real sure what happened on my mill.

At any rate, what you have made is looking REAL GOOD. Congrats on it all.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Semper. What kind of milling machine was/is it? 

I used a new carbide tool in the fly cutter and was taking off 10 mils per pass, three passes per side, and one last pass of 1 mil for finish = 0.031" per side.


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight....back in one of your messages discussing Mach3 and your larger Mill, dated 8 Sep 2010, you said "For one thing, it runs under Windows, so all my Acad drawing, g-code writing, and machine execution can be done on the same machine. It also runs on my notebook under USB control, so the computer takes a lot less space and is completely portable. I can draw parts and write code on the couch in front of the tube, and simulate the machine operations and debug right then and there. When everything is correct, I can carry the notebook out to the garage, plug in the milling machine, and I'm off and running". 

So, when you stated that it, (the Mill)" also runs on my notebook under USB control"....does this mean your new mill's driver board doesn't require a parallel cable to be connected to the computer? 

I'm about to add a 4-axis CNC capability to my Sherline 5400, but not Sherline's upgrade. I have only found driver boards that require a parallel cable for the interface with the computer. I happen to have a spare notebook (USB only) on which I currently do all my CAD work and really like what you described. 

Any driver board brand names would be appreciated. 

Thanks


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Howard - the driver box I'm using came equipped with the *SmoothStepper board*, which sits between the actual driver board and the computer. The *SmoothStepper* board takes input from Mach3 via the USB port and generates the correct parallel signals for the driver board. It's also powered by the USB port, so no additional power source is required. Works pretty darned well.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 21 Sep 2010 06:16 AM 
Thanks Semper. What kind of milling machine was/is it? 

I used a new carbide tool in the fly cutter and was taking off 10 mils per pass, three passes per side, and one last pass of 1 mil for finish = 0.031" per side. 
The mill is a Cummins (now known as ToolsNow) 7877 Mini-Mill (R8 spindle). Just like several other brands all made from the same basic design (Grizzly, Micromark (original one they sold), Homier) mostly made by Sieg. 

When I broke mine I was just barely scratching the surface of the stock piece, still checking if I had it perpendicular to the mill axis (or parallel to the orbit of the fly-cutter). I am assumming the cutter caught a large-ish blemish/extrusion on the edge of the raw material where it had been roughly treated (dropped on a sharp edge). Either that or the table wobbled as I was turning the crank (due to poor gib adjustment). It just made no sense that it went "bang" and the motor sped up as the fly-cutter slowly reversed about 1/4 turn and stopped. I had just finished smoothing the opposite side of the piece without a problem, taking just a few thousandths off in 4 or 5 passes (I don't remember just how much as I was just removing some scratches that I thought were too deep to buff out and I kept at it, a few thous at a time, until they were gone).

Although I had the replacement gears on hand it still took me a couple of days to figure out how to get the main bearings out of the cast case/housing. My son and I finally decided I just had to pound on the shaft and hope that I didn't damage the balls or races in the process. Putting it back together I was able to pound on the edge of the outer race to get it seated back in the casting. The mill still works and is no noisierthan it was before so I am assumming I did not damage it much. It sure was a complete dissassembly of the main mechanicals; the gear that was broken was on the main spindle.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gotcha Semper. I was just curious if it had metal gears or not. I've seen ads in Mirco-Mark saying, "Now with metal gears on the spindle!" which led me to wonder what they used before. I'm real down on using plastic on stress-bearing parts. The door latch on our microwave broke last night - for the THIRD time! The spring which pulls the latch down to engage when the door is shut hooked to a cheap, skinny little plastic tab molded into the door frame. This time I fixed it PERMANENTLY with a 2-56 stainless steel screw and nylon insert lock nuts. That part of the latching mechanism at least will last until **** freezes over!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Making Clevises:

I made a total of ten clevises for the brake system. I opted to use the Sherline equipment on these because (a) they are small and one can sit reasonably comfortably when machining them, (b) they lend themselves nicely to small parts, and (c) I already had all the tooling needed.

The first step was to turn the shape on the CNC lathe...










The bullet-shaped nose was turned first. The parts were then cut to the same length on a small Harbor Freight chop saw with abrasive cutoff blade and stops clamped in place. While the lathe was still retaining the same settings and coordinates used to turn the noses, and the cutting tool set to 0,0 (dead center), the parts were reinserted and butted up against the tool.










For those that are curious, this video shows the lathe turning the rear profile of the clevis in several passes. The first half is close up, and the second half is more of an overall showing the working of the lathe...



After all ten clevises were turned to shape, they were reinserted one last time to drill and tap the end for the 5-40 mounting studs. I realize this is less precise than doing it while they remained in the chuck from turning, but this was easier, required less re-indexing of things, and precision of that sort wasn't required here.

The nex step was to move over to the milling machine and slot them for the levers using a slitting saw...










While still in the vice, the clevises were drilled for a 4-40 screw - tap drill all the way through and clearance drill through one side. Doing this while the part was still in the vice insured the hole would be perpendicular to the slot.










The last thing to do was to clean up burrs and sharp edges with a needle file and tap the hole. I opted to tap them manually as the clearance hole on one side guided the tap to insure it went in straight.

A finished clevis...



















(Mikey suggested I include a ruler/scale in some of my photos).

Earlier in the week I made 12 square nuts from 3/16 square stock and washers from 5/16 round stock. I intended to make wedge washers to mate with the slanted brake beams, but after cutting one to the required 4.4*, the difference in thickness from one side to the other was so negligable that I just made them all flat. The shoes are mounted with 5-40 stainless threaded rod cut to length.



















A finished brake beam...










Next up - brake hangers.


----------



## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 26 Sep 2010 06:20 AM 
Howard - the driver box I'm using came equipped with the *SmoothStepper board*, which sits between the actual driver board and the computer. The *SmoothStepper* board takes input from Mach3 via the USB port and generates the correct parallel signals for the driver board. It's also powered by the USB port, so no additional power source is required. Works pretty darned well.








Thanks Dwight....that should do the trick.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, that's just too damn pretty.... I apologize for thinking making a clevis was easy, he he! 

Greg


----------



## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

She's looking great there Dwight! I just joined the riding scale fraternity this past weekend myself, taking my first run behind my 3 1/2" gauge LNWR "Jumbo" 2-4-0, running on the highline at the Waushakum Live Steamers in Holliston, Mass. 











Unfortunately, I don't have a lot to show photographically for the historic first run, except for a few blurry pics my girlfriend took on her iPhone. This pan shot was the best of the bunch... 











Some on this forum may remember this engine as the one that turned up on Ebay a couple years ago listed as an Aster Jumbo. Of course most of us gauge one guys saw it and realized right away it wasn't an Aster, and the ride-on guys missed it because it was listed as a gauge one engine, so the bidding never got very competitive on it. I had always wanted a ride-on engine, and never thought I could afford one, but I figured I'd put in a lowball bid and dream for a few minutes until somebody came along and outbid me on it. Well, nobody did! Considering the guy who had it had no idea what he had, I really lucked out with this engine. Not only did I get an amazing price on it, but it really is a quality piece of work too. The model is built to LBSC's "Mabel" design, lettered as LNWR 790 "Hardwicke" (the sole surviving engine of this class preserved in the National Railway Museum in York). The seller said he had picked it up at an antique shop in England about 5 years earlier, and had never run it. The only missing pieces were the handles for the smokebox door and the hose connections for the tender. The throttle was seized in the open position, all three check valves (tender pump and two injectors) were stuck, and the sight glass blowdown valve was leaking, but those were all minor issues, all easily remedied, and nothing at all unexpected for an engine that most likely hadn't run in almost 10 years. The boiler and running gear were sound, and when I tested it on air, the engine ticked over like a sewing machine. Still, it took me a couple years before I finally got around to taking it down to Waushakum (about an hour's drive from here) and joining the club.


Considering she's really not all that much bigger than my Accucraft K-27, it's amazing what a different experience it was to drive this engine. Coal firing is definitely a learning experience, and getting a relatively small engine like this to haul a big guy like me up a grade without spinning the drivers takes a very light touch on the throttle. Can't say I fully mastered either of those skills before it was time to pack up and go home for the day, but I was starting to get the hang of it by the third lap around, and I'm looking forward to spending a lot more time with this engine. But no, I have no plans to give up my gauge one stuff either!


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Good for you Richard!!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The Brake Hangers:

These are the parts I made to comprise the brake hangers. The parts shown are for one hanger - a total of eight are needed.










At left are two of the actual "hangers." These were made from 5/32 thin wall brass tubing. The ends were flattened for 3/8" on each end by squeezing them in a milling vice. A jig was made to hold these while the ends were drilled so all the holes would be equidistant. The ends were then rounded on a belt sander.

The 3/4 x 1/2 angle bracket at top right was sheared and bent from 1/16 brass sheet. Holes were then drilled on the milling machine for precise location.

Finally, the hanger hub at bottom right was made from 3/8 x 3/8 brass bar that was flycut down to 0.275 on one side to match the width of the shoes. The end was rounded on the milling machine and the hole drilled for the hanger pin. The end was then drilled and tapped 1-72 to mount to the angle bracket.

The assembled hanger...










For the pins, I used 3/32 x 1/2 aluminum rivets (the prototype used some kind of rivet or carriage bolt). The rivet was drilled for a cotter pin, also as on the prototype.

A finished brake beam with hangers...



















The angle brackets will mount to the tender frame. I have three more to assemble. At the last minute I decided to use rivets and cotter pins instead of my original intention of 4-40 round head Phillips screws. Also I originally drilled the shoes for 5-40's. This means that in order to take up the slop, I have to make bushings from 1/8 thin wall brass tube, so assembly takes a little more time, not to mention having to drill the rivets for the cotter pins. Still, if all goes well, I should have them all assembled by the beginning of next week, and possibly the brake beams mounted to the frame as well.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking good Dwight. Later RJD


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Don't remember if this has been discussed before, but an excellent pre-painting prep for bare aluminum, steel and brass is a solution of phosphoric acid. I get the concentrate from an auto paint store. While it is specified for use on ferrous and aluminum alloys, I have found it works equally as well on brass. It is ideal for assemblies like your brake rigging, as a warm water rinse neutralizes the solution. A friend who restores 1940's airplanes told me about this stuff. 

Pretty nice machining there, Dwight. 

Larry


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the tip Larry. I'll look into it.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Or just soak the parts in coca cola (read the ingredients it has phosphoric acid too)... ha ha... I have used it in a pinch to etch stuff... just leave a penny in some coke sometime... 

Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Well, the brakes are finally hung!









I had to make a couple of horizontal frame members for the inner brakes to hang from...










These actually gave me more trouble than other things I've made which were far more complex.







I first made two from 1/2 x 3/4 aluminum bar. I got them cut to 12" long, and got the holes drilled. However, when I was tapping them 5-40, I broke the tap off in the 4th hole on the first piece.








I went on to the second piece and managed to tap all the holes without mishap. Since there was no way I could get the tap out of the first piece, I made another part. This time I broke a tap off in the 8th and LAST hole!!









At that point, I decided to **** with it and made new bars from 1018 steel. This was duck soup compared to the aluminim. The steel didn't stick to and gum up the drill bit and tap like the aluminum did. Lesson learned!

Anyway, once the holes were tapped, I mounted the inner brake beams...










The frame was then set sideways on a drill press to drill through the frame's sides and into the horizontal members. These were also tapped 5-40 and mounted using stainless hex head screws and washers. The frame ends were drilled to pick up the 8 holes in the hangers on each side. These were tapped 5-40 and the brake beams mounted from the inside so as not to interfere with the actual end sills.










Finally, I made the rods to connect the beams together. These attack with square nuts and washers I also made.





































Next up are the central lever (fulcrum lever is it?) and the rods that connect to the truck levers. Then comes the brake staff and wheel, ratchet, and pawl, and that should finish the tender brakes.


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Nice work Dwight! 
I am sure a few words where flying around in your shop. 
Thanks for the update.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking great Dwight! 

Quite an assembly, forgot all 8 wheels! 

Greg


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Beautiful work!


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

For model machining, an excellent tapping lube is Acculube, either the paste or in a block--itwfpg.com. It is non-toxic and can be used on all materials (not sure, but I think it is vegetable-wax based). I also equipped our mills with the spray applicators, but that is pricey for a home shop. Great stuff. 

You are correct that aluminum can be ornery to tap, especially the softer alloys found in hardware stores. Best choice is to use 6061 or 2024 if you can get it. As with all materials, in deep holes keep backing the tap out and remove chips before they pack the flutes and cause jamming. 

Good progress!


----------



## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

If I see this right, the brake hanger is mounted to the tender frame?

If this is correct, before you go much further, I'd take the tender frame to your track, put it on the tightest curve that you can go on, and apply the brakes. 


I have a feeling that there will be uneven wear in the brakes, or lower total braking force available due to uneven torque on the wheels from the trucks being rotated without the brake being equally moved out of alignment from the tender frame.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

If I see this right, the brake hanger is mounted to the tender frame?

If this is correct, before you go much further, I'd take the tender frame to your track, put it on the tightest curve that you can go on, and apply the brakes. 

I have a feeling that there will be uneven wear in the brakes, or lower total braking force available due to uneven torque on the wheels from the trucks being rotated without the brake being equally moved out of alignment from the tender frame.
I'm not at all worried about that. First off, this isn't a multi-ton machine trying to stop from a rolling speed of 35+ mph. It's a couple of hundred lbs max stopping from a max speed of 10-12 mph. I can stop it by putting my feet on the ground. Consequently, my gut tells me, and other people's experience verifies, that there will be minimal wear on the shoes, and they will probably outlast me. If the club rules didn't require them, I wouldn't even be putting them on in the first place.

Second, the curves this will run on are prototypically broad, not unprototypically sharp as is true with the smaller scales most of us are used to. The trucks don't actually pivot much on such broad curves.

Third, it was not uncommon for the prototype to hang the shoes from the frame.

Finally, the brakes will be self-equalizing via the rigging, just like the prototype, ensuring fairly equal pressure on all shoes. While the photos may make the assembly look fairy rigid, there is actually quite a bit of play on the beams both side to side and in the ability of the beam to pivot. As the shoes ride against the tapered tread, they should more of less self-center.

I appreciate the comment though.


----------



## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

For drilling and tapping aluminum (or any cutting, really) I use alcohol. Standard rubbing alcohol will get the job done. I learned of this from out machinist and so far I haven't even set myself on fire while using it. } ; ] It actually does a better job than the oil-based fluids we have available here so long as you keep it away from DC lathe motors... (WHOOSH!) 

Just an FYI, 
Trot, the somewhat flammable, fox...


----------



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Trot is right. Alcohol makes great cutting fluid for Aluminum. And the best part is it's nice and clean and non-oily. That's nice if you are going to be painting your parts!

Regards,


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Trot and Eric - I'll try it. Does it work for milling aluminum as well?


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 21 Oct 2010 01:59 PM 
Thanks Trot and Eric - I'll try it. Does it work for milling aluminum as well? 

Be sure to use it sparingly, or at least have a goodly-sized CO2 extinguisher right handy (pin pulled and pre-aimed... at your pants!







).


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

20 years ago, when I worked at Hewlett Packard, I was told early on that you need specific tapping fluids for specific metals, and I was told about aluminum first, since it is soft and seems to be "Easy".

I have had a bottle of this stuff for 20 years (although it came in a metal can at the time):










Needless to say, it works great now as it did 20 years ago.

Regards, Greg


----------



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Tap Magic works really well. I have some of that stuff too. But it smells pretty bad and leaves your parts all oily. I have used alcohol, either isopropy or denatured, for ALUMINUM ONLY and generally on smaller jobs, but yes it does work for milling, drilling and tapping. It does evaporate fast though which tap magic does not.

Regards,


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Tap Magic is what I have and what I was using. Mine is not specifically for aluminum though.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Ahh Grasshopper, you are close, but no cigar! 

ha ha... The aluminum fluid is definitely different. 

Man, that company must have been around forever. 

Greg


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It's been a long time since I have used TapMagic, but aren't there two versions, one specifically for aluminum, and another for other metals (labeled as NOT for aluminum). Dwight, would you look at the info on your can, just to satisfy my curiosity? 

After reading a couple of these posts, another good feature of AccuLube comes to mind---no fire extinguisher needed! 

Larry


----------



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I just grabbed both versions from my shop. The regular tap magic says it works with a variety of metals. There is a big list of metals on the front of the can that you can use the product on and aluminum *is included* in the list. It also states: "Effective on ALL metals" (including aluminum.) The color of the liquid is light caramel and it is somewhat viscous-- like gear oil. 


The specific aluminum Tap Magic mentions no other metals-- obviously the formula is intended only for aluminum thus it probably preforms better on aluminum as well. The color of the Tap Magic for aluminum is clear and it is less viscous-- more "watery". Like I said the smell of the aluminum stuff I find a bit objectionable. It has a sickly sweet odor that is almost cinnamon like-- but not in a good way. I keep a bottle of alcohol near the cutting fluid because I prefer that for aluminum. But I will admit that tap magic works well.

Regards,


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I will check and confirm Larry, but I'm pretty sure mine is the general purpose Tap Magic.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

*Tap Magic Metal Cutting Fluids*


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, would you look at the info on your can, just to satisfy my curiosity? Verified Larry. The can of Tap Magic I have is multipurpose. It lists its use for an array of both ferrous and nonferrous metals including steel, stainless, brass, copper, magnesium, cobalt, aluminum, and a few others. It is NOT specifically for aluminum.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I was only "warned" about 2 types of metal being a pain to work with in tapping, SS and Aluminum. I was instructed to buy a special fluid for aluminum. Mine is exactly as Eric stated, sickly sweet, clear, and low viscosity. 

Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Time for a new update...

The brakes are coming along, albiet with a problem here and there. In order to make brake tension adjustable, I decided to incorporate turnbuckles on the main brake rods. I ordered a left-handed 5-40 tap and die and made a set of turnbuckles...










The left-handed die turned out to cause me some grief. I had to order one (obviously) and when I received it, it has a very small taper on the input side. Try as I might, I could NOT get the damn die started on the 1/8 diameter brass rod. It simply refused to start. If it grabbed at all, it would twist the end off the brass rod, leaving a piece stuck in the die that I had to drill out and pick out the remains with tweezers. VERY frustrating!!!









Finally I was griping to Jesse about it on the phone one night, and he said, "Take a file and put a nice taper on the end of the rod first. The die will go right on there." Duhhhhhhhhh....









He was right - that solved my problem. Sometimes you need a buddy to point out the blatently obvious! hehehe

At any rate, one rod on each turnbuckle has a hole drilled through it to accept a small cotter pin. That will prevent the turnbuckle from loosening up in use.

The brake rods connect to a central lever...










The fireman's side end of the lever has an additional hole for another rod that will run to the brake handle. I'm waiting on the US Snail to deliver a stainless steel brake staff that Jesse made up for me (I suck at machining stainless). It will have a lever on the bottom that connects via this rod to the central lever in the above photo.

A couple of overall shots of things so far...


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking good, is the rebuilt tender frame or is it the tank that you are going to rebuild?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I'd ultimately like to rebuild both. Right now I'm using the stock kit frame and tank.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Beautiful assembly Dwight. Where did you order your left handed tap and die?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Rich!








Where did you order your left handed tap and die?
I got them from the DNC... which is probably why I had such problems with the die (get it? LEFT-handed? yuk yuk yuk!). Well... it was funny to me anyway.









All kidding aside, I got them online through an outfit called *Victor Machinery Exchange*.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

You guys need to learn to use your right hand.


----------



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 

first, great work on your tender stuff. But I've a questions for that brake rigging. I saw this type of brake hangers, body mounted instead of truck mounted, on many rolling stock, but I've a simple problem with that : 

When the tender bends around a curve, the trucks will pivot to negotate the railbend. But at this time, the brake shoes will not be alligned with the wheels. So how can you ensure, that the brake shoes will hit the wheels in fact of a twisting truck??? I hope you can understand what I'm thinking about. 
May the wheel flanges will guide the brake shoes? 

BTW there are good news from my Shay-project, I'm going to order the boiler next week and will recieve him in spring 2011. 

Bye, Gerd


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gerd,

I will answer this for Dwight, most tenders and a lot of cars were set up this way with the brake beams hanging from the car frame rather than the truck frame. On the real cars and tenders the amount of rotation of the truck was so little that it did not matter and did not affect the workings of the brakes. I can't say for sure but I would bet that the trucks on his tender don't rotate much more than half an inch either way from center. that is why the brake rodding is set up the way it is as it pulls tight it will make up for the slight angle and the brake shoes lightly ride against the flanges to keep the bake beam ans shoes aligned with the wheels / truck. Did I get this correct Dwight?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That's essentially correct Andre. Gerd - We in the ride-on scales don't have to contend with the kinds of sharp curve radii so common in the smaller scales, so truck rotation isn't nearly so big of a concern. Additionally, there's a certain amount of lateral play in the hangers allowing the shoes/beams to swing slightly side to side. That, combined with the small amount of actual truck rotation, the taper on the flanges and mating surfaces of the shoes, and the wheel flanges, all combine to keep the shoes relatively centered on gentle curves.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Does the send message option not work on the forums anymore? I just tried to send Dwight a message and the box for email came up with a blank to field and a blank subject line.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That's how it comes up here... I don't use it... 

I put your mls name in the to field, and a subject in the subject line and the message text in the message box. 

See if you get the email. 

Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Rick - it does work so far as I know. You just need to type in the username of the person you wish to PM. I just sent you a PM, so in this case you can simply reply to that one.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The question of how the body-mounted brake hangers will function on curves has come up more than once here. As it turns out, in the course of designing and laying out the brake system, I made the following AutoCAD tender chassis drawing...










As I already had this drawn up, I decided to lay out a curve and see just how much truck deflection there was.

According to RRSC, the manufacturer of the CP-173 kit parts, the absolute minimum radius this locomotive is designed to run upon is 25 feet (I just looked it up, so when I did the following layout, I thought minimum radius was 20 feet). Accordingly, I laid out curved 7-1/2" gauge track lines in AutoCAD with a 20' radius at track center. I popped the appropriate part of the tender chassis drawing, rotated the trucks so the wheels roughly aligned with the curve, and measured the brake beam deflection at truck centerline.










As it turns out, that deflection is 0.197" (a hair over 3/16") for a 20' radius curve, which is 20% tighter than the locomotive is designed to run upon, and far tighter than any of the curves I believe one will find on most club layouts. It will be less than 3/16" with a 25' radius, which in and of itself is probably pretty tight for a club layout.

I'm not out to prove anything here - i just thought it would be interesting to see how much deflection we are actually talking about given that this has come up a few times, and once I had the results I figured I'd share them. Andre and I were just estimating 1/2" deflection maximum. It would seem that he and I were grossly overstating the problem by a factor of around 300%, and even that is under the absolute worst case conditions.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

A picture (or drawing, in this case) is worth a thousand words. Outstanding!


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Excellent explanation, Dwight. You and your project continue to amaze me!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks guys. While I was home at lunch, I also took a couple of photos. The first is with the trucks aligned relatively straight as it would be on straight track...









The second is with the truck pivoted for a deflection of about 3/16" as indicated by the previous drawing...










I didn't even try to align the shoes here - just pivoted the truck against a ruler to the proper deflection and let the shoes fall where they may. As you can see, there certainly isn't anywhere enough of a mismatch to be cause for concern (imho at least).


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Gerd on 12 Nov 2010 03:01 AM 
Hi Dwight, 

first, great work on your tender stuff. But I've a questions for that brake rigging. I saw this type of brake hangers, body mounted instead of truck mounted, on many rolling stock, but I've a simple problem with that : 

When the tender bends around a curve, the trucks will pivot to negotate the railbend. But at this time, the brake shoes will not be alligned with the wheels. So how can you ensure, that the brake shoes will hit the wheels in fact of a twisting truck??? I hope you can understand what I'm thinking about. 
May the wheel flanges will guide the brake shoes? 

BTW there are good news from my Shay-project, I'm going to order the boiler next week and will recieve him in spring 2011. 

Bye, Gerd 


Gerd,

The shay as was most logging equipment had its brake hung from the trucks because they were designed for much tighter curves than regular main line trains.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gerd,

The shay as was most logging equipment had its brake hung from the trucks because they were designed for much tighter curves than regular main line trains.That's true Andre. Additionally, model 4-4-0's are notorious for not negotiating tight radii turns because the cylinders fall right between the pilot wheels and the pilot truck hits the cylinders if they have to swing too far to either side. That's one big reason why Bachmann chose to model that tiny little rat 4-4-0 in On30 - so they could produce something that would negotiate 18" radius curves. Larger scale 4-4-0's are no different.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Update: Brakes Essentially Finished...

Before showing the brakes, I also made and installed a fitting to connect the bypass lines to from the crosshead pumps...










I made this from a 3/8-16 silicon bronze bolt I got from work. It's slightly crooked 'cause I didn't get the die started straight when threading the 1/4" brass pipe, but since it's inside the tender tank and won't be seen, I decided not to worry about it.

Inserted through the bottom of the tender deck...










And the view from inside...










Once plumbed in, this will take water from the bypass valves and divert it back into the tender tank.

On to the brakes. Here's a lousy photo (taken with my cell phone) of the brake staff I had Jesse in Las Vegas make up for me. It's turned from stainless (which I still suck at) and is 3/16" diameter. The top has a boss and a square shaft on top to match the brake wheel casting, and a 10-32 thread on top for a nut.










The bottom 2" are 1/8 diameter which fits into the ratchet and pawl assembly and out the bottom. The 3/16 section bottoms out inside the tender deck, preventing the staff from falling through.

The ratchet/pawl/baseplate assembly is a set of three castings I bought from Jack Bodenmann. These are fastened to the tender deck with 0.062 aluminum rivets to simulate carriage bolts.










A 3/4" diameter collar fits over the 1/8" diameter section of the bottom of the staff and tightens with a set screw. An arm is affixed to the collar to which the brake rod attaches via a clevis.










Turning the brake wheel clockwise rotates the arm, pulls on the brake rod, and tightens the brakes against the wheels.

The top of the staff is secured via a small aluminum bracket I made based upon a drawing in "Modern Locomotive Construction" circa 1900.










This bolts to the top of the tender tank on the Fireman's side. Bolting this in place was one of the biggest headaches of the whole project! First off, the top of the tank casting is a lot thicker than the sides or bottom,so once I drilled the holes for the bracket, I had to get in there with a Dremel and a carbide cutter and hog out some material. It's also way forward towards the end of the waterleg aside the coal bunker so the area is highly constricted and visibility is non-existent. Access is through the water hatch in the rear of the tank, so it was at the extreme limit of my reach. To make a long story short, there was no way to get nuts on the damn bolts. I literally tried for hours over the course of a couple of days, holding the nut in a hemostat clamp because the space was too narrow to get my fingers into (not to mention just barely being able to reach it). I finally gave up,and cut a slot into the tank top to allow access. I'll cut a recess around the notch and epoxy in a styrene or brass cover, then putty over everything and sand it smooth.










The brake wheel and a homemade square nut finishes everything off.










All that remains is to reinstall the water feed lines and make up the lines for the bypass, and I'm back on the rails... just in time for the rainy season!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I've finally completed the tender mods I started on August 30th - only took me a little under four months. hehehe

The boiler feedwater lines on the tender are modified and reinstalled. I needed to move then further out to each side to accommodate the new bypass lines and connections. The bypass lines are also made and installed.



















I also opted to make new longer truck-mounted brake levers, allowing the central brake linkage to be moved closer to the tender deck. There is now more clearance above the railheads and less to get snagged/damaged in the event of a derailment.




















The next thing I want to do is make a couple channel-type supports for two or three boards at the front of the coal bunker. It's completely open at the moment requiring reversal of the shovel to get a scoop of coal. I also want to make the tender's grab irons.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*








Outstanding Dwight!


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking wonderful Dwight... Now kick back and have a wonderful Christmas.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It's beautiful Dwight, but aren't the wheels supposed to be on the bottom? 

I'm so confused! 

(seriously, what nice work!) 

Greg


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 24 Dec 2010 08:43 PM 
It's beautiful Dwight, but aren't the wheels supposed to be on the bottom? 

I'm so confused! 

(seriously, what nice work!) 

Greg 

No, no, no, you're not confused... Dwight has been reading all about the folks that have indoor tracks that run around the ceiling and HE is the one that is a wee bit confused about it.

Dwight: Now that I have insulted you... (sorry 'bout that!)... I wonder; could you provide some object of "standard" size in some of the photos so I can get a better feel for the actual size of this sweet bit of machining? Of course, that is one of the neat things about it... I have no idea if it is full sized 1:1 or some scale model... just can't tell!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thank you gents.









Semper - the tender is 32" long end sill to end sill. Also, in the last photo, those are standard toothpicks lying in the table in front of the tank.


----------



## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Very nice, Dwight. You gotta be getting anxious to try it out again Have a good Holiday!!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

On Thanksgiving week of 2009, I took my chassis and all my parts to Las Vegas, NV, where Jesse Banning, co-owner/operator of JD Locomotive Works built her steel boiler. After a week's worth of work, making and mounting the boiler, plumbing the steam lines, etcetera, we fired her and ran her on steam for the very first time. I recorded this historic event on a Samsung Digital Video Camera that burned video direct to DVD. Unfortunately, the DVD wouldn't finalize correctly. Now, well over a year later, I've managed to salvage some of that video. Unfortunately, over half of it is irretrievably lost.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Glad you could salvage some of the video, because that had to be a really exciting experience in your life.


----------



## R Snyder (May 12, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
That is really Great!


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 

Thanks for the alas foreshortened video - your loco is both looking, and sounding very good!


----------



## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, thanks for sharing. It really sounded great. What a memorable experience.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

because that had to be a really exciting experience in your life.You have that exactly right Steve. I was really bummed when I discovered that the camera had screwed up the first recording. While we did a second firing that night, and I had that on video (I posted it back in August of 2009), it just wasn't the same as the *first * firing - the first time seeing steam coming out the stack and safety valves, the first time seeing her wheels turning under steam pressure, and the first time hearing her chug.







To be sure, a rush not to be repeated.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I finished a couple of final little touches to more or less complete the tender. The major one was the addition of a couple of "boards" at the front of the coal bunker to both prevent coal from spilling out the front, and to give me something to shovel against. Up to now, I've had to scoop coal backwards against the real bulkhead, then turn the shovel around to stoke the firebox. Easy enough perhaps, but not as easy as scooping and stoking in the same direction. Besides, the prototype had such boards.

"Modern Locomotive Construction (J.G.A. Meyer - 1892) shows these boards held in place by a couple of angles riveted to each side of the coal bunker forming a channel into which the boards insert. With the one-piece resin casting tank I have, there's no way to get in there to buck the rivets. I decided to mill out a channel from 5/16 sq. brass and silver solder it to a flange into which I would also silver solder rivets. These rivets were then cut off and the back side round flush. I would in that way simulate two "angles" on each side holding the boards. 2-56 flat-head stainless screws would secure each bracket to the tank casting.

The raw fabbed pieces for one bracket...










All soldered up...










And in place. The "boards" are 3/16 6061 aluminum.



















I'm now ready to start on the cab. I found an online supplier this morning of 1/16, 1/8, and 1/4 inch thick cherry hardwood. Just need to design the cab and draw up the plans.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Now that is a really creative (for the aesthetic look and feel of a period locomotive) and down right practical solution.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Looking great! 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I enjoyed reading most of this thread except the last few pages, after recently visited the auction at Cabin Fever in York, PA. I can much better understand why Little Engines 1 1/2" scale 0-4-0 cost $12000 ready to run. I also know now why boilers cost $2000 and more. 

I found two older 1 1/2" live steam engines for $6500-$7000 that may need new boilers. Has anyone reading this posting heard of these steam engines with roadname of M. Hale RR?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Now that is a really creative (for the aesthetic look and feel of a period locomotive) and down right practical solution.Thanks Steve - sometimes ya just gotsta think outside the box.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Bryan - I saw your post over on the Chaski forum (Home Machinists Forum). I suspect you may get your answer over there, but you never know.









I would suspect that "M. Hales RR" is the name a guy came up with for his own railroad. Hopefully someone from the East Coast will recognize the name or the locos and be able to tell you a little more about them.

A big part of what makes these locomotives so expensive is the fact that they aren't mass-produced. Even most of the raw castings and kit parts are sold by small garage operations who either order or cast the parts in small quantities. Then add to that cost the time it takes someone to machine them, and it adds up pretty quickly. I've seen several locomotives like mine at the local club, and though produced from the same kit/parts, no two are alike - each is a one-of-a-kind locomotive, lovingly hand-made by someone, someplace.

Anyway,welcome to the boards, and I hope you get the info you're seeking.


----------



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Very cool Dwight. I have been watching your progress from the beginning, almost finished.







Are you going to paint the tender blue like the loco?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Grimm. Actually, the "blue" was a mistake. The color of powder coat I picked out on the color chart looked far different than the "Thomas the Tank Engine" blue I ended up with. It was supposed to be more of a metallic grey-blue and look more like Russian Iron. I'm going to redo that the next time I strip her down - either have the boiler jacket redone or start over and make a new jacket. 

My ultimate plan is the loco pilot and pilot deck, the domes, and perhaps the cylinders wine colored in the old Baldwin scheme, the jacket Russian Iron, and the driver and pilot wheel centers red, with a polished cherry wood cab. The tender will also be wine, and the whole thing done up in Baldwin Style 1 lettering and striping.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Is the actual "Russian Iron" treatment impractical? I thought it was some combination of paint or oil or something with graphite... 

Greg


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Greg

On the "Russia Iron" maybe the following would be of interest.

American Patents Relating to Planished Iron[/b]

"Russia Iron" Research[/b]


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I did a search at Google Books and quickly found _The manufacture of Russian sheet-iron_ By John Percy, published 1871. Here's a link.

On page 5 he writes "A Particular kind of sheet-iron is manufactured in Russia, which, so far as I know, has not been produced elsewhere. It is remarkable for its smooth, glossy surface, which is dark metallic gray, and not bluish gray, like that of common sheetiron. On bending it backwards and forwards with the fingers no scale is separated, as is the case with sheet-iron manufactured in the ordinary way by rolling; but on folding it closely, as though it were paper, and unfolding it, small scales are detached along the line of the fold.
In the following pages this kind of sheet-iron will be designated Russian sheet-iron. This sheet-iron is in considerable demand in Russia for roofing, and in the United States, where it is largely used in the construction of stoves and for encasing locomotive engines. I am informed that it is there named stove-pipe iron."


That seems to me to be pretty definitive: Russia Iron was a distinctive gray color, and NOT bluish gray


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Greg - as explained above, Russian Iron was made by a special process and isn't available anymore. Many now use a hot bluing process to simulate Russian Iron, but to my eye it looks far TOO blue. I will probably end up going to an auto paint shop and having a special color mixed. The same goes for the wine color. There is an auto paint shop not far from me and I've already approached them about painting the locomotive. They expressed an interest. Besides, a good automotive acrylic, professionally applied, would be a very attractive and durable finish.


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Greetings,

I am going to weigh in on the proper color for Russian Iron. First off yes there is no blue component in Russian Iron till you look at it on a real loco motive until you view it out doors on a clear day and then it picks up the blue from a clear sky, so when I model Russian Iron on scale models I add a little light blue to give it the blue cast from the sky that doesn't exist in my train room. This why most models that have a "Russian Iron" boiler have a bluish gray color. With most models you have to adjust the color slightly to take in to account the size and ambient lighting. I had a friend paint a GS-4 with paint from he got from the real loco and it just did not look right even though it was the "correct" paint.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
I've seen some of your pics of the Engine and the painted boiler here and on face book, and I gotta tell yo; that is one of the most beautiful things I've seen, hands down. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about the color,,, those things were change so often and sometimes by amateurs, but I can not fault to for wanting to get it right seeing the amount of detail you have already put in to it. Sometimes though you gotta settle for what looks right to you, and when you do, I guarantee that is going to be one fine engine,,, it already is  Can't wait to see it all come together.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, you might try Testor's "Model Masters" buffable paints, particularly the "Gunmetal" shade. That's what I use on my models to simulate Russian Iron, after reading Jim Wilke's recommendation of it being the closest paint to give you that finish. My concern would be how well it would stand up to the heat, but if it's being applied on top of the powder coating, it'd probably have a good surface. Alternatively, you might want to try blackened brass sheet. It's a little less "blue" than what you typically find with blued steel. 

Later, 

K


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the comments and recommendations Gents.









Right now I'm looking at two different options. The first is to have it blasted and re-powder coated with a gunmetal shade. I've seen some colors that may work, though this time I want to see an actual sample (considering what happened last time). This is do-able as the company who supplies the powder coat to the guy I use is local, and will provide a 2" square of metal with the coating applied.

The second is to take it to an auto body paint shop and either select a color from the catalog, or have them special mix something. We have such a shop a few miles from the house, and I've already approached the owner about painting the loco. He already expressed interest in doing so. It is in fact my intention to employ this shop to paint the tender, cowcatcher, pilot deck, etc. when I'm ready. As the tender tank is a resin casting, powder coating it is already out as a choice there.

To my mind, the advantages of either of these approaches are durability and quality of finish. In the case of the paint shop, the other advantages are flexibility of color choice, as they can mix just about anything, and the fact that they can paint any surface/material.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

As some of you know, I have never been happy with the "Thomas the Tank Engine" powder blue of my boiler jacket. When I opted to powder coat it, I picked a color from a wall chart which was a metallic gray-blue and looked fairly close to what I'd seen on Sonoma. What I got back didn't look anything like what I picked out, and I was determined to eventually replace it.

A couple of months back, I was on McMaster's web site and stumbled across some polished, blued spring steel in 10 and 15 mil thicknesses. I picked up three sheets of the 10 mil and fabricated a new boiler jacket from it. I just got her all back together again (to the point I was at before). Additionally, I did some polishing, and sent my domes to Jesse to be buffed.

Here she is this morning...




























Quite a difference!!! I am sooooooo much happier with how she looks now!! She looks almost like a completely different locomotive!


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks amazing Dwight. Now if only you could convert that fridge into a box car.


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 

WOW, that looks a 1000 times better. 

Chuckger


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 

WOW, that looks a 1000 times better. 

Chuckger


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hey Dwight, That looks great but do you really mean the material is 10mil (mm ?) thick ? how do you form it ? 

Rod


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hey Rod, 
Odd as it sounds, over here a "mil" is .oo1 inch, so the "10 mil" sheet is .010 inch thick. 
Larry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

WOW!!!! Dwight, she is a beauty.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wow!! That is one heck of an upgrade, that is really looking great. And when you get the cab finished its bright work will fit in very nicely. Way to go Dwight.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks gents. I think she looks great too.









Rod - Larry nailed it. 10 mil is 0.010" - and I discovered very quickly that the spring steel doesn't form. Trying to bend it in a pan brake merely breaks the stuff, and when I tried to roll it into a cylinder it just sprang back straight as soon as it exited the slip rolls. Luckily it does curve fairly easily, and a few judiciously placed screws plus the boiler bands keeps it in place.

Steve - the cab will be polished walnut.







Should contrast nicely. The current Eureka also has a blued jacket and a walnut cab. In fact, the only real difference between Eureka and mine when it's finished (other than Eureka being NG) is that Eureka is painted in Baldwin Lake, and mine will be the earlier Baldwin Wine with red wheel centers on the loco.


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
That is real purty. Thinking I might have to drive up when she is done and see her in person.









Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

If I make it to Ontario I'll have her with me as I intend to leave from there straight to Vegas for a week. When I leave Vegas, she'll REALLY be purdy!!!


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Way to go, that as the other posters says it looks a 1000 times better than the Thomas the Tank blue that it was before. I would make bands of metal to go around the domes so you do all of the fancy striping that they had there.

Andre


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, Larry, Thanks for the clarification, over here .001 is a "thou" in engineeering circles  So your material would be 10 Thou.


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Very impressive Dwight!







I agree much nicer then the other color. It is going to nice to see what you do with the cab. 

Jason


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## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks even better! 
The finish looks great, an excellent locomotive! 

Alec.


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Holy crap... My Ruby may get some of that spring-steel sheeting! 

She looks Awesome! 

Trot, the appreciative, fox...


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Holy crap... My Ruby may get some of that spring-steel sheeting! 

She looks Awesome!Thanks Trot, but based upon my experience with the stuff, I can tell you that you will NEVER get the 10 mil wrapped into such a small cylinder. My smallest boiler section is roughly 6.50" OD. However, McMaster sells it down to 4 mil thick in widths adequate for a Ruby boiler. That may work, but it may not (again due to the small OD).


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, the new boiler jacket looks truly SPECTACULAR! It really looks like a prototype. That was a great choice on your part and I look forward to seeing it in person.


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight:

What is the web address of: McMaster's web site ?

Is there a specific product order number for the spring steel sheeting ?

I guess you need to keep the boilet jacket lightly oiled to prevent rusting of the finish?


Thank you

Norman


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Here are a couple of links Norman...

* McMaster's home page
*

*The blued spring steel section*

and yes, I am keeping it lightly oiled. Some sort of clear coating may also be an option.


----------



## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

http://www.mcmaster.com


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

BTW, for those interested, jacket construction closely followed how the previous one was done (documented earlier in the thread). In fact, I was able to place stiff paper inside the old cylindrical sections and draw through the holes and slots creating templates for the new pieces, making the new one considerably easier to make than the original when it was all fit and cut. Additionally, I had saved the original template for the transition piece.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

WOW! I just nownoticed that you painted your cab forward


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

WOW! I just nownoticed that you painted your cab forwardYeah I did... two years ago. hehehe


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I'm finally getting around to starting my cab. I've ordered the walnut and some special tools.

The first thing to do was generate some drawings. I have the cab restoration drawings from the Sonoma done by the Sacramento Railway Museum. The first step was to redraw the overall in AutoCAD in 1:1. I also have the Carolwood CP-173 drawings, so I drew a rough template of the cab front - also in AutoCAD. Once the Sonoma cab drawing was done, I scaled it down to 1/8th scale.

Another wrinkle is that Sonoma is a narrow gauge Baldwin while the CP-173 was a standard gauge locomotive. By overlaying the Sonoma cab over the CP-173 template, I was able to stretch the Sonoma drawing as needed to correct the proportions. I had to do other stuff too - like add a radius to the inside of the cab front doors,and some other tweaks. Then I adjusted the dimensions of individual plank widths and the like... 0.837 became 0.875, etc. to make it easier to actually build.

What I ended up with is a Baldwin-ized cab of the correct proportions which also has the full Baldwin prototype construction methodology. Once I get the walnut I can start making some sawdust.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight

The cab is looking good, can't wait to see it finished and installed.


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## Olbuddybert (Mar 10, 2011)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight... just got down to reading all of this post. An amazing record of the creation of this locomotive and even more amazing how wonderful it looks. Congratulations and I hope I can ride behind it up in Griffith Park very soon!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Bert. Not sure when or if I will get down to LA with her anytime soon, but you never know.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I have also enjoyed reading your building log. I think I spent one evening back in October of 2010 reading it. Thanks.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I've spent the last several days beginning work my cab, starting with the front and rear vertical posts and the cab front pieces. Everything shown here has been hogged out of 1/4" x 6" x 24" solid walnut sheets which I purchased with all sides finished and squared.
These three pieces make up the front post and door jam, and the horizontal piece below the door...



















The rabbit on the top piece is for the window frame. The rabbit cuts on the middle and bottom piece will accept the door.

A close-up of some of the bevel work...










Most of the time so far has been spent on making the individual pieces. There's a lot of mortises and tenons to make, as well as some rabbits and bevels. Actually, I think this may be harder than making a 1:1 cab as the precision required is much higher. A 1/32" gap between pieces on a 1:1 cab would go unnoticed, but in 1/8 scale it would stick out like a sore thumb and be equivalent to a 1/8" gap on the 1:1.

Anyway, today I finally was ready to glue up the first sections...





































Obviously, there still some finish sanding to do. Both these sections are now assembled. I also have the top front piece cut out with the roof peak, but there's still a lot of mortising and rabbiting to do on it. I also have the lower side rails made - the ones above and below the recessed piece where the name goes. Still a whale of a lot to do, but I now feel I'm making progress.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That is going to really set off the rest of the locomotive when it is finished, walnut is really beautiful wood.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I have no doubt this cab is gonna be a masterpiece. I've watched over three years as you've mastered milling and turning and sheet metal work. I've always been scared of that. I'm a wood working kinda guy....give me wood or plastic and all is easy. Not metal. But...I'm guessing you're gonna become an expert cabinet maker level wood worker soon...so don't be shy about posting your work. 

Oh...and WALNUT...jees...talk about a wonderful wood to work with. Hope you figure out how to NOT paint it when you're done.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I sort of figure that we'll see skills like applying goldleaf and lining added to Dwight's skill-set in the not too distant future.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks guys, but you give me too much credit.









If I were to make those sections over again, I'd make the mortises smaller on the inside corners of the door rabbits. But I'm not going to make them over again just for that as it won't be visible from the outside anyway. I do want to hinge the doors, and have to slot the jams for the hinges before I go too much further and they become inaccessible.


Jesse suggested I try using the end mill again. My previous experience with the transition piece form left a lot of wood fiber hanging out at the edges of the cuts. This time however, it worked terrific. I used the mill to cut the rabbits for the windows in the vertical posts, and they came out nice and clean. The difference is I used a router bit instead of an end mill - seems to make all the difference.
The cab will be natural - no paint. I don't plan to stain it - just clear coat it with something - polyurethane perhaps. I'll have to do some tests to see what looks right.

Here are a couple of shots I took this morning with most of the pieces made so far. This is a "dry fit" and nothing is squared up, but it gives an idea of where I'm going with this...



















Onward and upward...


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*








Dwight,

I have to agree with Mikey about your skills with this engine! BTW, we had an expert cabinet maker make the doors and window frames using mortise and tenon, for our Baldwin Electric Project at L.A. Live Steamers (1985). I don't believe HIS work was as good as what you are doing. Very nice work indeed, my friend.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight

I agree with Gary & Mikey, but you see it's not us that gives you the credit, it's the product you turn out that does that. We merely echo appreciation for the accomplishment.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

More cab parts...

Top horizontal member - inside...










Overall - outside...










These eight pieces, together with the top horizontal member and the outer posts previously posted, comprise the basic cab front wall.
Top center -outside...










Door jamp - outside...










I'll start gluing them up tomorrow. Still needed to finish the front wall are the window frames and moulding strips, but I'll get back to those. Once this is glued up, I'll start on the side walls, some parts of which are already partially done.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Great progress on the cab Dwight. Looks like a piece of furniture. Really first rate.

This is a work engine right? Not just a prize winning show piece 


vr Bob


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Bob! Coming from you, that's a real complement!









You can probably help me out here by recommending a finish. I don't wish to change the color of the wood much as with a stain as I don't want it too dark. I'm more looking for a gloss or semi-gloss finish that will be water and oil proof. Something along the lines of the color of Eureka's walnut cab is what I'm after.

Thanks bud!


----------



## HeliconSteamer (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
You could post a question over on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum. Mr. Dan Markoff (Eureka's owner) reads the forum and posts from time to time, especially on Eureka.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

When ya get to the finishing part...things to keep in mind.

a. If you plan to put ANY stain or sealer on the cab, be sure you work very hard to wash any wood glue away as you glue things together. Plan ahead...leave spaces between clamps and the wood to get wet rags in. Have multiple rags. Have lotsa water. Have a toothbrush to get into cracks. Keep the rags clean of glue residue. Etc. Nothing makes a staining job worse that having an area where the glue has sealed the wood from the stain...or a sealer.

b. Your walnut looks like it might need to be sealed...I can see pores in the photos. Sealing doesn't change color (much)...but it sure will improve the look of the final finish. Be SURE the sealer you choose is compatible with the ultimate exterior finish you intend to apply.

c. Your engine will be outdoors some of it's life...so, you should consider a finish that blocks UV. Interior finishes do NOT block UV...so examine all the exterior finish options....and think about the final look you want...shiny or flat...because the final finishes come in gloss to matte. If you got the money...buy small cans of the sealer and finish...and experiment on scraps.


d. If you pick a water based sealer...pick a water based final finish....or vice versa. Same if you select a NON-water based finish. The sealer and finish need to match chemistries. Did I mention that you need to choose compatible sealers and final finishes???? From personal experience, I can tell you that you cannot kick yourself in the butt long enough after having made that mistake.


e. Me...I love the MinWax collection of finishes. Haven't used em for years...and the EPA rules have really caused a lot of change in these chemistries...so do a lot on online research. Look for reviews that ARE CURRENT. 


f. And one last recommendation...spent $20 (at least) on tac rags. I swear the difference between a good finish and a great finish is often based on how clean you get the surface before you seal it...or finish it. Tac rags ARE THE SECRET...they pull all dust and crap off the wood...and it's worth spending a good deal of time cleaning before you apply a finish. And you need to use CLEAN tac rags...so buy a bunch. 


Oh...and did I mention that you need to choose compatible sealers and final finishes????


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

HS - thanks. Actually, my buddy Jesse knows Dan. Hadn't thought of asking him.

Mikey - thanks bud. I had no idea you were such a "wood guy" until your last few posts.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Mike is right about glue. Glue will resist any finish you use. Got to get it all cleaned off before it dries. Where two pieces of wood come together, mask the joint as closely and tightly as you can with masking tape. Glue the parts and wipe off squeeze out immediately. The tape will protect the wood. Pull the tape off and let the joint dry. 

I think shellac is the way to go on the finish. Shellac is a natural polymer resin. Nature's plastic. It's actually a special bug poop. Real shellac comes as plastic looking flakes. The flakes dissolve in alcohol and is applied to clean, bare wood. The alcohol dries and the shellac is left behind. The shellac chemically bonds with the wood. A few coats leaves a very hard, smooth, shiny, golden surface. Shellac was often used on hardwood flooring. It's very durable and resists staining. Paint stores would have shellac mixed and ready to go, or you can order the flakes from a woodworkers supply house. It's a gorgeous finish.


Stay away from poly urethane. The formulas have changed so much, it's not what it used to be. The stuff now will peal off of a finely finished hard surface. I've seen guys use it on oak around here and it's gone in a few months.


I will bet you $10,000 those original, old timer cabs were shellac.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Bob. I'll buy some and try it out on a piece of scrap. Sounds like just what I'm looking for! Tell me, is it a thick stuff that will hide small bevels and the like? Sounds like it can be thinned with alcohol.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 04 Jun 2011 05:26 PM 
Thanks Bob. I'll buy some and try it out on a piece of scrap. Sounds like just what I'm looking for! Tell me, is it a thick stuff that will hide small bevels and the like? Sounds like it can be thinned with alcohol. 
BTW, thank you for your kind words earlier Dwight.

I should warn I have not actually tried shellac myself. Just see it on a lot of old furniture and like the look. The golden color is very nice. Can't imagine it's that difficult to apply. It's been around for a zillion years. The thickness depends on how much you dilute it and how many coats you want to apply. The test is a good idea for sure. Hit the test piece with oil and water as would happen during a run. I know you will wipe down the cab after a run so it's not like oil and water will sit there for long periods of time. Also hit the test piece with lacquer thinner or some other fairly aggressive solvent. Need to know what might damage the finish.


Was down at Jesse's shop the other day. We kicked around some ideas for rounded trim on that Eureka he's doing.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yeah, the moulding is going to be a challenge for both of us due to size. I bought a couple of sets of special miniature routing bit sets designed for making dollhouse moulding, but of course the specific shapes I need aren't in there. So I'll either have to substitute a different profile I have a bit for, or try and use a combination of bits and passes to get what I want, or make (or have made) some special cutters.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Okay, I have the major components for the front cab wall glued up...










Naturally, a few mistakes were made, and a few things didn't come out as well as I'd hoped, but overall I'm happy with it. I still need to make the semi-circular cutout for the boiler. Even then, there's still plenty to do - making the doors and window frames, and making the moulding... but progress is progress.


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Just keep working away and you have it done...See you next month for the summer steamup....


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Made a little progress yesterday. I got the semi-circular cutout made in the cab front to straddle the boiler...



















The side sections are just sitting in place for the photo. Looks like I may want to lengthen them anyway as the cab is about 1/2" to 3/4" shorter than I would like. No big deal to remake the four rails as nothing much has been done to them yet anyway. I'll probably do that this afternoon.

I don't mind saying that I was nervous making the semi-circular cutout. If that got screwed up I'd have had to start over. I cut a test piece out of plywood and decided to increase the radius by 1/32" for a better fit. When I was ready to do the actual cab front, I must have checked my setup four time for squareness and the center point before starting (I did it on the CNC milling machine with a 1/8" straight router bit). Even then I was off center by around 0.020". Luckily I started cutting from the backside, so it was easy to nudge it over a little after the first cut and start again.

Just took off the domes, headlight and pilot deck and packed them up, along with the bell and yoke. I'm meeting Jesse at GGLS this morning. He's going to take the parts, along with the tender, back to Vegas and paint them for me. The locomotive parts he will ship back, and the tender he will bring back when he comes back out in July for the GGLS 75th Anniversary meet. 
Looks like I'm going to get most of her painted after all.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks good Dwight. Good idea to practice difficult cuts on plywood. By now you know woodworking is a zen. The kami flows from the living force. You have to feel each part. Visualize each part in the raw material and free it from captivity.

Seriously, you don't have any idea what it will look like until the finish goes on. Painting metal is a no brainer. Paint covers the metal completely. Wood finishes highlight features in the wood you don't see at first. It's nerve wracking wondering what it will look like.


This project will turn out sweet. I feel it.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That is looking really nice, glad all went well with the boiler cutout. That brightwork of the cab is going to look really sharp against the French steel boiler jacket.


----------



## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight: 

The spring steel boiler covering is perfect. 

While you are at it, why not build a second cab out of butternut wood? 
Easy to build two cabs at once. 
Easy to add a clear coat finish to butternut wood which really brings out the grain. No stain required. 

Finishing wood is an art. I have done lots of cabinet work as a hobby. Machining wood is easy. Finishing wood to look as you wish is NOT !! 

Take your mahagony cab to a local furniture refinisher. These folks specialise in mahagony woods and can spray finish your cab with a combination wood dye finish and clear coat in one step. A cherry wood finish on that mahagony would look like a million! 

Mahagony is one of the more difficult woods to finish as it takes stain unevenly. Maple is another problem wood. One solution is to clear coat the mahagony wood first and then apply the stain finish for a more uniform look. 

The best finish is by a furniture refinisher. Well worth the money! 


Norman


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Now I am confused, is it mahagony or walnut? It's got that deeper purplish hue that makes me think walnut. 

Greg


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Make sure the furniture guy knows what you are doing, as some finishes will not stand up well to heat, sun and water.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 14 Jun 2011 05:17 PM 
Now I am confused, is it mahagony or walnut? It's got that deeper purplish hue that makes me think walnut. 

Greg Greg

I believe what you are thinking of is Black Walnut, as far as I remember there are three types of Walnut (Butternut, English Walnut, & Black Walnut), here's a link where you can see the differences.

Black Walnut[/b]


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Cool, did not realize Butternut was a reference to a type of walnut (sounded like something to eat!). 

After reading that site, Butternut walnut is also called white walnut, and the nuts are more valuable than the lumber, interesting. 


Thanks Steve, learn something new every day! 

Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I'm definitely using walnut - not sure of the variety. I found a supplier online who sells it down to 1/16" thick in 6 x 24 sheets, finished both sides and edges square cut, so that's what I bought in 1/16, 1/8, and 1/4 thicknesses. 

As to the finish, I had Jesse get in touch with the owner of the Eureka. He used a particular type of spar varnish on his full sized walnut cab, so that will probably be my first choice. It is moisture and UV resistant. Second choice would be the shellac that Bob recommends as I trust his judgement. Whatever I use, I will buy some and test it on a piece of scrap first. I plan to finish it myself, or at least try. Failing that, the furniture finishing guys is a good idea. Thanks!


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The fruit from English Walnut & Black Walnut are both also edible and high value cash crops. Again if I remember correctly, Butternut is the mildest, Walnut is in the middle, and Black Walnut is the most intense in its flavor.


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sounds like your getting your ducks in a row to finish this one. See you soon at the summer steamup.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sounds like your getting your ducks in a row to finish this one.Still a long way to go and much to do. However, the domes, headlight, bell yoke, pilot deck, and tender are in Vegas as we speak to be painted. Should have the loco parts back in a week or so and the tender back in early July.


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yeah! FREE RIDES at the Summer Steamup!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sure Dan. We'll just set her up on the Paso Robles track.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Spar varnish, did not think of that one. That's a good choice. Spar varnish is very water resistant, used on boats a lot. It's also elastic, so it won't crack. I read that newer blends have good UV protection


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

This is the stuff... *Z-Spar 1015 Captain's Varnish*


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I also build small boats which are finshed bright and use spar varnish for them, thus it is the natural choice for me in my models...I think that is the right choice all around...it will last well, protect the wood and look great! it comes in gloss or satin finish. I always choose gloss. the satin will look good on a locomotive, but the shine will be effected by oil.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I received the glass the other day and it looks like it's going to work just fine.







I bought some special tools - an oil-dispensing glass cutter (you put the oil in the handle) and a pair of glass-cutting pliers...









These things work terrific!!! This is the first time I've ever been able to successfully cut glass!!









I cut the glass for the cab front windows and the cab doors. Then I made the window frames today. I got really lucky in that the 1/16 walnut I bought is more like 0.05" - almost exactly the thickness of the glass. That gave me an idea, and I decided to try making the frames in three interlocking layers rather than try and route a dado in a thicker piece to accept the glass. This turned out to work really well. The bottom and sides are all glued together (I used thick CA for this), the glass slips into the resulting three-sided frame, and the top slides on. This allows everything to be removable in the event I ever need to replace the glass.



















I glued a runner inside the cab - made from two pieces with a flange to hold the bottom of the window frames - and slipped the windows into place. A second runner on top that's screwed to the cab will allow easy removal if it's ever necessary.










On to the doors.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Nice work Dwight. There is some nice looking figure in the cab front. That will really stand out nice when the varnish goes on.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Well, she's finally sporting a brand new coat of paint.








































































I decided today I want to do the tires in white.


----------



## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks wonderfull with the new paint! 

It is a work of art! 

Alec.


----------



## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Looks great. "Awesome" in its true meaning.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yes sir! That sure is a beautiful sight.

And to me provides a pretty good example of where the "blue"/"green" color of Russia iron comes from, just look at that blue sky being reflected off the French steel boiler jacket.


----------



## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wow Dwight!
She's looking purdier and purtier









Tommy








RioGracie


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I like the picture of the proud papa! 

(and it's quite an accomplishment) 

Greg


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By tmejia on 10 Jul 2011 09:57 AM 
Wow Dwight!
She's looking purdier and purtier









Tommy








RioGracie

I'll ditto that....


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 10 Jul 2011 03:13 PM 
Posted By tmejia on 10 Jul 2011 09:57 AM 
Wow Dwight!
She's looking purdier and purtier









Tommy








RioGracie

I'll ditto that....







Ditto twice!!









Beautiful!


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Pictures don't do it justice Dwight. 

Are you planning the rounded wood detail trim on the cab as the "Eureka"? What size would it be?


Bob


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Now, the big question, what's next, since you are getting close to finishing? 

You talked about a different tender once if I remember... or will it be rolling stock? 

With all the wood work you have done, I'd like to see maybe a killer caboose, or ?? 

Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Are you planning the rounded wood detail trim on the cab as the "Eureka"? What size would it be?Yes... and small. I bought a set of moulding router bits designed for making doll house molding... hopefully those will work. Actually, the current hangup has been figuring out how to route the curved angled part of the raised door panel on the front doors. I have a plan of attack now, but with the NSS coming up next weekend, it may be a couple of weeks before I can try it. 
Now, the big question, what's next, since you are getting close to finishing?I'm still a looooong way from finishing Greg. Gotta finish making and varnishing the cab and then I have to make the cowcatcher. Then I have to make and install the brass half-round on the running boards. I need to install the drain cocks and make the mechanical linkage to operate then, and that will require once again removing the boiler. Eventually I want to take her to Vegas again and Jesse and I will tear her apart, repaint the frame and cylinders to match the Wine color, and reassemble. And I'd still like to make another tender... at least the trucks/frame/deck portion. The tank looks okay now that it's painted, but I still think I could possibly do better. 

However, I may make a caboose or combine in the interim - just to take a break from the loco if nothing else. Even that wouldn't happen for a while down the road.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That reefer looks like a great idea also. 

What would you have to do to make it ride-on? Outrigger foot plates? 

Greg


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight: I think I cracked the code on the rounded trim. At least we have a working proof of concept. I did 2 experiments. The first had some bugs that got worked out the second time around. Here is the result of the second experiment.










The trim piece is 4-1/2" long, 1-1/2" total across, 3/8” wide and about 1/4" tall. The wood is cherry. 

The process requires a pattern of the trim piece you want. Cut it from 1/2" thick MDF. 










Glue the pattern to a larger board so you can clamp the assembly to the bench. Lightly glue a sheet of newspaper on the pattern. Trim the newspaper to the pattern










Mill out the blank stock.








P4

Glue the blank stock together. Lightly glue the blank stock assembly to the newspaper.








P5

Chuck up a straight pattern following router bit.










Rout off the bulk of the stock. The stock ends up the same shapes as the pattern.










Switch over to the final forming bit on the router. 










This bit is a small, 1/8” radius roundover bit. It has a ball bearing follower just as the straight bit. The bearings come in 2 sizes, 1/2" and 3/8” diameter. The different bearings give different profiles. The 3/8” turns a regular roundover bit into an ogee cut with a lip.

Chuck up the bit and rout the final profile. Use a sharp, thin ex-acto knife to slice thru the newspaer.










The ex-acto knife will go cleanly thru the newspaper without damaging the finished trim.










Lightly sandpaper the trim work and pattern to remove the newspaper.

I had trouble routing the final profile with this arrangement. The router wanted to get a bit “tippy”. So I remade the pattern by adding rails along the sides. 










The router rides on the rails rather the stock. This is a much better arrangement. Glue the stock to the newspaper as before. Straight cut first, then final profile.










The added rails made controlling the route easier and gave a much smoother cut. Cherry can be difficult to rout. It likes to burn. The first attempt burned a lot. Second one came out clean. The newspaper “chuck” idea worked great. Use a very very thin coat of glue to hold the work piece. Don’t need much. The knife blade pops the final trim nicely off the form.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the tips Bob. Looks like it came out great! Good job!









I have the advantage of a CNC milling machine so I suspect I'll have an easier time of it and won't need a pattern. The idea of gluing down the piece using newspaper will come in handy though.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Forgot about your CNC mill. That will make it a lot easier. The bit does not need to turn as fast as a regular router. Reduces the chance of burning the wood.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The Sonoma cab I'm working off has a rectangular name area as well. Haven't really decided yet if I'm going to go that route or make mine with radiused ends as you did. I like them both. 

Got my special routing bit last week for making the raised door panels. Gonna try it this weekend if I have time. As I've been gone the last couple of weekends (GGLS 75th and NSS), the list of things that need fixing at home has grown. Hope to get all that done today and out of the way.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Options, they make you lay awake at night. The newspaper "chuck" migh work to secure the raised panels.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Finally got my cab doors done...










The darkened door has been hit with a tack cloth - the other has not.

Finally decided to abandon the raised lower panels and just go with flat panels for now. The sections are so thin that the angled raised panel router bit chips the wood. I can always add them later. In the meantime, I'm tired of being held up by them. Realized after looking at the photo that I managed to get the grain in the panels oriented 90* from each other. Oh well...


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gorgeous!! She will really be struttin' her stuff at Golden Gate L.S.


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, the "machining" of the wooden pieces is fabulous. Great job.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Tack cloth is designed to clean dust off wood. They used to be ordinary cheese cloth with turpentine or paint thinner with a little shellac. Now they use different chemicals that are not as volatile. Yours is doing its job.


The cab is looking super. Wood takes a lot of work. But it has the real "uuuu and ahhhh" factor. You'll be turning heads up at GGLS


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Knocked out a quick'n'dirty tender stand yesterday out of some spare wood I had in the garage overhead.



















Not exceptionally pretty, but functional.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks fine to me.


----------



## c1run1 (Aug 4, 2011)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight ,
Simply outstanding ! I'm in complete Aw .


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Today I semi-finished the major components for the cab sides. Still need to cut the top side rails to match the angle of the roof and mill out the slots for the rear sliding windows. I need to actually make the front and rear windows before I can do that. The stock for those is already cut to width. I just need to cut the glass and make the window frames.

Anyway, here's the engineer's side temporarily clamped together...



















Hopefully I can start on the windows tomorrow morning. Got some stuff to do around the house as well, and Lon is coming down in the late morning with my Inyo.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);
You can store your Aster Reno in the tender.


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
She's looking great!! What stain will you use for the cab? Or perhaps, a clear coat? The woodwork is too good for paint!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Steve.







I bought a pint of the same spar varnish Dan Markoff used on his full-sized Eureka walnut cab. No other stains... the photo a few posts back showing the door I used a tack cloth on gives an idea of how the walnut will darken a bit.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Made the first two types of necessary moulding. These go in the recessed "locomotive name area" in the cab sides below the side windows. The left profile goes inside the recess and the right profile frames the outside of the recess...










Already have the inner ones miter-cut and glued in place, and currently working on fitting the outer pieces. Pics soon.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Wow! that's some small stuff... looking forwards to the results! 

Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Outer moulding installed...




























On now to make the window and door mouldings.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking nice. A hand rubbed oil finish is going to look real nice. Now I do expect to see a smaller version on the Reno....


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gorgeous Dwight. Has that "just perfect" look


----------



## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Geesh! That looks nice. Good find. Matches the good work!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks gents.








Good find.It wasn't found... I made it.


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
I gotta say that your cab is really making that engine come alive! Heck, the whole thing is a work of art!! It's really looking great!


----------



## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I actually read that you had made it... but the drool in my eyes made me forget.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight: Where did you get the mini router bit set?

Bob


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Here ya go Bob. It's the *MRS-2000* at the bottom of the page.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Amana makes the best router bits in the world. I bet they were sweet to use. The trim look gorgeous.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Amana makes the best router bits in the world. I bet they were sweet to use.They are indeed Bob. Ever since I discovered I coud use them in my milling machine, that's what I've been doing. Far better control of where the cut takes place.

Just made the moulding strips for under the doors and windows. This was a tricky one... two separate passes with two different router bits and a pass through the table saw with the blade tilted at 10 degrees.


----------



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hey Dwight can you stick a penny in one of these shots of your trim to give an idea of scale? 

Regards,


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hey Dwight can you stick a penny in one of these shots of your trim to give an idea of scale? Look back a few photos and the loco name area trim is laying behind a machinists scale. It's roughly 1/4" wide at the base. The stuff I made for over the doors and windows is almost exactly the same and is also around 1/4" wide - just without the flat area on the front. The current piece in the last photo is around 3/8" wide at the base.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I took this week off and have been working on the cab. The front and side walls are now attached and all the moulding affixed. The fixed windows are mounted and the runners made and attached for the sliding rear windows, which are also mounted. The doors are hinged in place.























































Whew!!


----------



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Excellent Dwight! That is really coming together.


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

GREAT progress, Dwight. It is beautiful!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

She's beautiful Dwight! Gets better and better every time.


----------



## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

She's just plain drop-dead gorgeous, [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
admit it: Deep down in your heart you are a woodworm. Making metal chips seems to be almost like work for you, while woodwork is definitely fun. Beautiful cab!

Regards


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thank you guys.







Here's a few photos of the prototype btw...




























I counted up the number of pieces of wood in what I've done so far - 172.

Henner - I do really enjoy working with wood. But I also like metal working. If it "seems like work to me" it's probably because I'm still pretty new at it.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Now THAT looks like a locomotive! 

Greg


----------



## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I think you are doing a stellar job. I am truly impressed. Wish that I had the ability for that kind of detail. I get to the point of running and then I tend to cease progress and just run until I change something. I admire your tenacity. Truly amazing and thanks for the continued documentation.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Truely amazing! You need a 1:8 scale engineer now


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight, 

The cab, and the rest, all look quite superb - your latest photos of cabs have some lovely work in them - thanks for all the photos. 

To say the very least I'm impressed!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By rkapuaala on 27 Aug 2011 05:09 PM 
Truely amazing! You need a 1:8 scale engineer now  
Maybe something like my brakeman........made by Chris Walas many years ago, for my 1:8 wood caboose.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Truely amazing! You need a 1:8 scale engineer now Is that an offer Rick?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thank you everyone for the nice compliments. They are truly appreciated. I have some woodworking experience, mostly building basswood structures from scratch and from craftsman kits, but nothing to this level of construction and joinery. So when I started the cab, I was somewhat apprehensive as to how it would come out. It's been enormously satisfying to see it take shape and begin to "match my vision." And isn't that why we all build models in the first place?


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Nice figure Gary, 
Dwight you have a CNC machine right? Maybe we could work something ouit.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sent you a PM Rick.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I responded.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gentlemen: I can assure you that the "engineer" of this locomotive will be 1:1


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By xo18thfa on 28 Aug 2011 07:08 PM 
Gentlemen: I can assure you that the "engineer" of this locomotive will be 1:1 
Thats going to take a lot of resin!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, if you ship it out here, I'll be happy to weather it for you.  

Later, 

K


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Kevin, but I'm doing an era when railroad crews took care of their equipment. hehehe


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

An aside: got the to basic back walls made this weekend, and the carlins made for the roof. Waiting for more 1/16 walnut to make the back windows. I need to sit on the loco and see if a complete back wall will interfere with my access to stuff when running, or if I need to make part of it removable.


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, my 1 1/2" 4-4-0 was similar in design to yours (but nowhere as beautiful), and the rear cab wall was complete. For visibility and access, many builders include a large lift-out(or hinged up) section in the roof, towards the rear, which aids in operations. Then the roof itself can be fastened to the sides for rigidity. 

Do you have your leather engineers' gloves yet? 

Larry


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks for the info Larry. I still want to set things in place and sit on the tender before I make any final decision. I plan to use a removable roof section - just need to figure out if having part of the rear cab wall remove with it will make it easier to get to things on the backhead. 

For gloves, I have a long cuff set I bought mail order from Train Mountain - part leather and part denim.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Got the rear vertical cab walls finished and installed...



















Up to something like 200 pieces of wood in it now. Today I'll start the roof and removable section, along with the removable section of the back wall.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Beautiful work Dwight,,,, just one tiny thing I wanted to point out about the panels. When I learned cabinetry (I was a journeyman cabinet maker for a decade) I was taught that the grain should run the longest length of the panel. So the sides have panels that are long horizontally and the grain is running horizontally, and the back panels have panels that are long vertically so the grain should run vertically. This is to keep the least amount of cupping from happening. Also, it would have been nearly impossible to find that width of walnut in a single fletch.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

But your craftsmanship is still superb


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

... and the back panels have panels that are long vertically so the grain should run vertically.Artistic license. I like the way it looks better this way.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight. The looking sexy bro. Are you doing all the routing work on the mill?? What RPM's on the spindle? The cuts are coming out so clean.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Bob. Yes, all the routing is being done on the milling machine. I'm not using CNC, but I am using the computer under manual control to traverse the axis under stepper control for a constant feed rate. RPMs are maxxed out at around 3300. It also helps that the router bits are brand new and sharp.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It's taken me a little while to figure out exactly how I wanted to make the removable roof section. I want it to completely slide out from the rear, as opposed to hinging up either a section of the roof or the entire thing as Disney did. This leaves a good portion of the roof intact during running, and to me looks the least funky.


I made some brass channels from 1/8" square brass stock with a 1/16" groove milled down the middle. Then I made some narrow slides from 1/16" brass sheet. The frame pieces for the removable section has grooves routed to accept the slides, and the frame sections for the stationary section have grooves routed to accept the channels. Here's a photo of all the primary pieces laid out...









The channels are the vertical outside pieces, and the slides are the vertical inside pieces. The right vertical frame pieces show the grooves to accept them, and the left vertical pieces show the mortises on the other side to accept the peaked pieces.

Here's a couple shots of the removable section frame glued up as well as the some of the stationary frame mating pieces...



















More tomorrow.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Now she will be too pretty to steam...she is not going to be one of those Aster collectors style models and live out her days on a display wall I hope!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

More tomorrow.Well, that has to be one of the longest days on record.









Got the roof framing done for the slide-out section. Screwed up a piece or two and had to remake them. All that remains for the roof is to make the rear piece and sheath the roof with scribed wood that I need to mill/route, then cover the outside with brass pieces to simulate the tin (?) covering on the prototype.

Fully in place...










Partially removed...



















Fully removed...



















Once the roof is sheathed, about all that remains is to make and install the top and bottom moulding and she's ready to be varnished, and then the outer roof covering applied and painted. A few odds and ends after that (door latches and the like) and it's done.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking great Dwight. That cab will turn some heads up at GGLS for sure.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Beautiful work Dwight!


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Fantastic looking cab. Now that I see it nearly complete, the slide out section makes all sorts of sense, and will have it looking very smart going down the track! 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Bob, Gary, and Alan. It's coming into the home stretch for sure!









Milling/routing the roofing with a 1/32 router bit...










These sections are done...










Part of each piece will sheath the removable section and the rest will sheath the proportional section of the cab roof front. I'll need to make two more thinner sections of the same approximate length to finish it off.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, I have thoroughly enjoyed this ongoing thread about your progress. One thing about my Mikado is I feel I am looking for things to tinker with as I am not happy that my build is finished. Sometimes I go up and put some oil on the running gear just to have some excuse to look at it without my wife thinking I am obsessed with it.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Jeremiah. I understand what you're saying. I have to make sure I stop a few hours before going to bed so I'll be able to get to sleep. Otherwise my mind is still spinning and planning how I'll approach the next step. This is particularly true at times like now when I'm essentially designing and planning as I build. It's very easy to become temporarily obsessed with a project. 

Having built #21, and now working in 1-1/2" scale, there's a big difference in building in the two sizes, but the essentials are the same. Both projects have provided me the opportunity to develop all new skill sets and learn, and I suppose that's what I really love. I'd never done any real precision machining prior to starting #21, and certainly never any CNC of any kind. Similarly, while I've worked in wood before - especially scratchbuilding HO structures and HOn3 rolling stock - I've never done anything like this which requires precision routing. I'm enjoying the **** out of it - even the mistakes and remaking of parts I screwed up. It's all a learning experience for me, and I've always been more the builder than the operator - ever since I was a kid with erector sets and tinker toys. Simply, I love to make things... always have, always will as long as I'm waking up on the correct side of the grass. Sharing it via posts and Builder's Logs on MLS and elsewhere adds to the enjoyment, and gets me a lot of tips from those more experienced than myself in a given area. Got a good tip on Facebook today on finishing the cab in fact. I may change my plans - at the least I'll run a test. 

You know, I'll bet if you put your mind to it, you could design a hollow pillow that would hold your Aster Mike. The wife would never have to know. LOL!


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
See you proved a Old Dog like You can learn new tricks........


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## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, I have to say that you, Bob (xo18thfa), and Henner are who I look up to. Thanks for taking us on the ride, rough spots and all.  

Jason


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Good to hear from you Mark. Thanks for the call back. Sorry I missed it. See you proved a Old Dog like You can learn new tricks........Hmmmmm - what's that say about you bud?







Dwight, I have to say that you, Bob (xo18thfa), and Henner are who I look up to. Thanks for taking us on the ride, rough spots and all.  Awwwwww shucks. Thank you Jason.







What can I say that won't sound trite? As Dave Hottmann likes to say, "Never fear to fail." Bob and Henner are people I also admire, along with many others here and elsewhere.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

A quick update:

The roof is now sheathed. A view from the inside...










The 0.25 x 0.50 lip piece is also made and installed...










Had to buy a special beading router bit to put the 3/16 bead around the edges. Got enough pieces made for all four sides and had the pieces mitered and glued onto the front and back and was starting to make the radii on each end of the side pieces. Had the piece in the milling vice and the bit all registered in to the existing bead, etc. CNC right? Duck soup... EXCEPT the first time I ran the program I forgot to zero the X-axis in the program. Consequently the program thought it needed to move over 2" to the left instead of 9/16. As a result I crashed the spinning bit into the side of my milling vice. Chewed a nice gouge out of the side of the vice and bent the shank of a $40.00 router bit - ruined it. I had to order another. 










Anyway, here's where she now sits...




























What remains is the two pieces of stacked moulding below the lip and the single moulding strip around the bottom... then it's ready for finishing. After finishing, I'm going to cover the roof with thin brass sheets and paint them gray to look like Sonoma's roof.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
a good alternative to brass sheet is galvanized sheet. The Home Depot sells roof fittings made out of very thin sheet metal with enough flat areas to make patches. It cuts beautifully on my metal shear and is a lot cheaper than brass. I used it e.g. for shutes for a mine.
Regards


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

At this point, I think any consideration of cost is way down on Dwight's list ha ha! 

Dwight, looking at the picture of the prototype, it looks translucent white... is it the picture, the angle, or what is it made from? 

Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Henner. I already have a large sheet of 0.025" #260 brass left over from when I was making #21. 
Dwight, looking at the picture of the prototype, it looks translucent white... is it the picture, the angle, or what is it made from?Which picture - the one of the roof I just posted? Must be partly the lighting (The CSRM is notorius for bad lighting when it comes to photography). The roof is a gloss gray - a little lighter than battleship gray, and a little darker than the gray used on fighters.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks, was trying to figure out if it was some kind of polished metal... so you will paint your "roof sheathing" the same color? 

Shame to cover that lovely wood, but I guess on the real thing cinders could be a problem? (or is it clinkers?) Heck, I run sparkies what do I know? 

Greg


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Lightly sand the brass sheet and prime with self etching primer. Perhaps powder coat??

Cab looks sweet Dwight. You've done a top notch job.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It probably had more to do with rain, snow, and moisture resistance and runoff. Old boxcars and passengers had canvas roofing (you can see this on some old SPC boxcars at Ardenwood). Later they went to the tin covered roofs. I haven't seen very many cab roofs on vintage locos, but my guess would be that they followed the same construction techniques. Besides, the metal covering will hide a couple of mistakes. hehehe


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 Oct 2011 03:12 PM 
At this point, I think any consideration of cost is way down on Dwight's list ha ha! 

Dwight, looking at the picture of the prototype, it looks translucent white... is it the picture, the angle, or what is it made from? 

Greg It's not really about cost, but galvanized (thin) steel cuts actually better than brass and takes paint/glue better. But as Dwight has already a large sheet of brass, it is a moot point.
Regards


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## R Snyder (May 12, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
I have really enjoyed watching your build. I do hope that sometime I can see it in person. If you do come to Marty's, there is a nice 7 1/2 inch track at Waverly, Nebraska.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Henner, I'm curious, I've cut both thin galvanized and thin brass... thinking back on my experience, steel seems to cut with more of a "Snap" or more positively, while brass "feels" softer when cutting (of course I know it is softer) 

But how would you characterize this, or can you shed more light on "steel cuts better" ... (I know about galvanizing taking paint better) 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I've found that brass cuts just fine if one has a shear (not hand shears - a shear). For 5 mil stuff I use a paper cutter. If the blades are sharp on either, cutting brass is no problem. 

As for paint, I pre-etch the brass in the same Sparex pickling solution I use to clean up silver solder joints. I then let it soak in vinegar followed by a soak in Simple Green, followed by a warm water rinse and air dry. Overkill perhaps, but it's worked well. 

Also, the Scalecoat 1 paint is made for painting brass and other metals, and is (so far as I know) self-etching. If baked on per directions, the stuff is quite durable. I used it to paint #21 which gets a fair amount of handling, and it's holding up very well indeed. Hasn't scratched or worn through yet. Just MHO.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I found some interesting stuff about the effect on aluminum by simple green, "hydrogen embrittlement"... I know it does not affect brass, but some interesting stuff on how it affects aluminum. Just google "simple green hydrogen embrittlement"... 

Anyway, an interesting bit of data on cutting and preparation. 

Did you determine the construction of the Sonoma roof? I took another look at your picture, looks like "lap seams" now... dunno why I thought there were rivets... 

With brass you could solder up the lap seams easily I guess. 

Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I haven't finalized anything yet. I thought about making a basic sub-roof from the 25 mil stuff and sweat soldering 5 or 10 mil individual plates to it. As it needs to fold halfway around the beading, 5 mil would make that relatively easy, as well as reducing the brass wanting to "spring back" and come loose from adhering to the wood bead. I'm going to need to figure out what adhesive to use here. Anyone have any good ideas? Thick CA may work, but it would require care not to slop it or squeeze it out where it isn't wanted and mar the wood.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

If you could hold it till it dried, PL 3 would do the job, forever!


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I would use and adhesive with some give to it so ithe brass doesn't flake off with changes in temperature and humidity. Humidity will swell the wood heat will swell the brass the fire in the fire box would dry the wood expand the brass and you might loose adhesion with a rigid glue. 

Silicone caulk is the most basic product that comes to mind but there are also marine sealants which would not let go ever! 3M 5200 sealant is one such. it can be messy to apply though, but does clean up with paint thinner. I guess PL3 is a Loctite company product...I am sure they have a suitable adhesive for the job too


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

What about a marine grade contact cement? That would eliminate the need to clamp the panels in place while curing. 

Greg


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I'd thought about contact cement. Eric makes a good point about flexibility - one I hadn't thought of. I'm not sure how much of an issue that actually may be over so small an area. Is contact cement flexible? 

I'd also thought of Liquid Nails. The one big drawback I see with both Liquid Nails and contact cement is that both are very thick and difficult to apply with any degree of precision. 

Dan - do you know the viscosity of PL3? Is it a thick goo or is it liquid like Loctite thread lockers? 

Still seeking info/suggestions...


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Contact cement is a temporary adhesive in most cases. the flamible type is better. the waterbased stuff not so good. YOu will not have the engine out side for long periods and probably will not use it in the rain so there will be less swelling and shrinking of the wood than there is in an outdoor building. Good contact cement well applied should work well enough, though you may have to re-glue peices down the road. it is probably neater to apply than the thick caulk like gunk I reccomended as a perminent never coming off adhesive. dried contact cement may roll up into balls when rubbed off.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I've had contact cement hold up for 50 years (Weldwood solvent based)... never heard it is a temporary adhesive.. in fact there's a ton of warnings about trying to move the assembly after contact.. 

But, the manufacturer is the final authority... and yes, the water based stuff is junk... definitely... 

Greg


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I was going to say that once Formica is glued down then nothing including an atom bomb could remove it even with the water based contact cement.

Dwight

One other thing you might look for is aluminum printing plates after they have been used. Soft enough to cut with scissors and easy to burnish down to form seams.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

PL 3 is a LePage product. It is like sort of a goo but it can be spread thin enough, here it's about $2 a large calking tube. I have used it to glue some parts of my railroad structure and I glued a 2x4 to the stucco wall of my house which I hung a gate which is 6ft high and 3 1/2ft wide. it will move with the expansion and contraction of what it's holding.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

How was the original attached?

Another option is to soft solder flathead screws underneath and bolt it on.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The addition of the top moulding around the underside of the roof overhang and the moulding strips around the cab bottom pretty much finishes off the woodworking on my cab. She's now ready for finishing...




























Here it is sitting in place on the locomotive...



















And here's an "Engineer's view" of her operational configuration with the roof section removed...










Plenty of access.

I have three different finishes I'm going to apply to some scrap wood today - two polyurethanes, one gloss and the other semi-gloss, and a spar varnish.

Thanks for looking.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Friggin' thing should be in the Smithsonian... too pretty to run! 

Greg


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

You know, it's really a shame. That gorgeous cab doesn't get due respect when you put it on the gorgeous locomotive! 

I think you ought to finish it and leave it on display as a piece of furniture... 

I vote for spar varnish, by the way.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

It IS gorgeous. I got to finally see it a couple of weeks ago. For the sake of the tender though, Dwight needs to build a nice fixture to sit on the top of the tender that holds a nice lawn tractor seat for his touchie. 

I was flabbergasted to learn from him that he's gonna take the entire engine apart soon to repaint the loco frame a different color. Talk about a lotta work! Woof.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 23 Oct 2011 12:41 PM 
Friggin' thing should be in the Smithsonian... too pretty to run! 

Greg I have to agree with Greg. Too damn pretty to run!!


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Cab looks stunning. Time to get nervous awaiting the final finish.


I vote spar varnish.


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Cab looks really good.

In all the years I have been around live steam engines I have never seen anyone with a wood cab on a steam engine, especially a coal fired one. You sir, are very brave!


----------



## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hey Dwight, The whole locomotive and especially the wooden cab look absolutely amazing. A credit your your skills and workmanship. Like the guys already said above, seems a shame to get her dirty by steaming up.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Uhh... knowing Dwight, the maintenance crew will be under strict orders in the "spit and polish" area! 

Greg


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 23 Oct 2011 01:30 PM 
Uhh... knowing Dwight, the maintenance crew will be under strict orders in the "spit and polish" area! 

Greg 
I was not so much talking about dirt and grime as much as hot coals, sparks, burning coal falling out of the firebox.

I was just at a meet yesterday running one of my friends locomotives and had a burning coal fall out of the firebox while I was stoking the fire. Also had some good spark shooting out of the stack going up a steep grade right after I had put more coal in.

Nothing is more fun than running a coal fired locomotive


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Time to get nervous awaiting the final finish.Believe me Bob, I am. I have half a mind to send it to you and pay you to varnish it. hehehe 
In all the years I have been around live steam engines I have never seen anyone with a wood cab on a steam engine, especially a coal fired one.I have... there were a couple at GGLS's 75th Anniversary meet. Don't know if they were coal fired though. Anyway, hopefully a good coat of varnish will protect the wood from coal dust, etc. I also plan to glue a thin layer of Fiberfrax around the area where the cab touches the boiler jacket. 

Thank you all for the nice comments. Bottom line is I've always been far more the builder than the operator, even in the smaller scales. Building things and making things is what I truly enjoy and always have, even as a kid.


----------



## DTI356 (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Boy, 

I keep forgetting to keep checking up on this....She just keeps getting better and better. 

Dwight, You are a gifted craftsman. 

Brian B.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Fantastic! Beautiful work. 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight--- 

I clicked back to the first post...Wow-wee what a great job you have done! You must be having a ball!


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, I keep checking back now and then to enjoy the progress. 

I couldn't agree more that it should be in the Smithsonian. It's getting fabulouser and fabulouser....


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

Looking better every time you post new photos of your progress. I hope you don't get mad but I posted some of the photos over on the Pacific Narrow Gauge Web ( http://www.pacificng.com/template.php ) site in the forum for your locomotive build. While I was there I noticed that there was some photos of another 7.5" American with the very same pilot as the one you want, granted it is for a model of the Eureka but it should not be to much different than the one you want. ( http://www.pacificng.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=355 ) You might be able to talk to the builder and they might be able to help you build yours.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Andre. I don't mind that you posted the photos. As for the pilot, that's my buddy's 2-1/2" scale Eureka. He's been held up waiting for his second cylinder casting for like six months. Supposedly it's finally on it's way to him now via UPS. 

He built that pilot by rolling small brass angle after machining a slot in his slip rolls. I have the same drawings he used, but again, they are for a narrow gauge loco like Eureka/Sonoma and I need to design a standard gauge pilot.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Well, I ran some color tests on a few different finishes. The following photos don't show the color distinctions nearly as well as the eye.


This is the stuff I originally intended to use - Captain's Varnish - the same stuff Dan Markoff says he used on his Eureka cab...









It makes the wood far too dark for my taste.

The second photo is a different spar varnish from Minwax...










Same piece of wood - just the other side. Not quite as dark, but still too dark.

The third photo has an application of Minwax Wipe-On Polyurethane - 










Satinon the left and gloss on the right. I like this a lot better. Trouble is the poly isn't rated as outdoor use and has no protection from UV. Still, the stuff on the right was also given a coat of spar varnish after the poly dried, and it's still considerably lighter in shade - presumably because the poly has already sealed the surface. This may be the route I end up going.

Finally, here's a piece of scrap I did with a spar varnish that comes in a spray can...










This one isn't bad either, especially the top section where the wood is naturally a lighter shade.

Comments/suggestions welcomed.

BTW, none of these scraps were sanded or cleaned prior to the test coat - just something quick and dirty to get an idea what each might look like.


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I like Spar varninsh! The wood will be darker than it is now but will look great! it is also good with water, oil and sun...dont know about coal dust and soot.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I like pure tung oil. My experience with any urethane product like spar varnish is that once it starts going bad, it is a pain to restore. Tung oil lasts just as long and instead of flaking in places and adhereing to others it simple starts to vanish. Any tung oil left is easily removed with denatured alchol or paint thinner. Then a new coat can be rubbed on to acheive the desired luster and then honey waxed.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

You really have to test a variety of finishes as Dwight did. They all have subtle differences. Some will suppress grain, some darken more then others, some soften, some exaggerate differences. Wood prep is the key to success. It's gotta be clean.


Dwight, whatever you go with will look stunning.


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

I would not worry about the UV protection, this will only be problem if the locomotive is left out fro long periods of time in the sum. Most of the time the locomotive will be stored indoors and if you are like me it will be under a cloth cover to keep the dust and dirt off of it. 

So go with the color that you like the best, remember to look at it out doors in strong sunlight to see which one you like the best.


----------



## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight: 

The furniture finishers use spray on varnish, with colour dye in it, such that the colour is uniform and does not sink into the grain unevenly. 

BUT the first step is to seal the wood ! 

Try to find a varnish as clear as possible to seal the wood so that subsequent coats will not soak into the deep wood grain and sit on the surface of other areas resulting in an even finish as the wood will soak in the finish unevenly. 

So the plan is to apply, by spray, a clear coat to seal the wood and later apply subsequent fiinish wood colour coats from the SAME MANUFACTURER ! such that no chemical surprises occur. 

Personally, I like "cheery" wood colour finish the best which is clear varnish containing red dye. That is a popular finish for grandfather clock cabinets. 


Norman


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

If you are worried about grain then use a filler. You can add oil base pigments in the fill to match the walnut. I've seen really good finishers do this. (not me) you apply the fill first and work it into the pores. Then you wet the wood a little with a damp cloth and let it set and wait for the grain to stand up. Then you sand with a fine grit usual above 120. Then you apply the first coat of finish. This really hides the pores in the walnut and brings out the natural color.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I finally settled on Minwax Fast Drying Polyurethane in a spray can. It is super easy to apply (especially to all the complex surfaces, etc.), dries fast, and requires no sanding between coats provided the recoat is done within two hours. Yesterday I took the fireman's side door and windows out and removed the glass. I scrubbed each part with a brush and denatured alcohol, then applied three coats of the polyurethane.










Really brings out the different colors in the individual pieces (just like Eureka's cab). This morning I removed the engineer's side door and windows. I'll scrub them and apply the first coat shortly.


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, That is the most beautiful large scale loco I have ever seen! The workmanship is simply mind-blowing. I tend to be like you in that I enjoy the building and the running is just "proof of the pudding" or a social event. I hope I can get to see your creation in person some day.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I'd pay a million bucks to see the looks on everyone's face at GGLS when you roll that baby out on the steaming bay. You'll need to bring some extra foam rubber pads to put on the ground for all the jaw dropping.










Lookin' sweet Dwight.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

You guys are too kind.









Thank you! I sincerely appreciate your comments.


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

We all know how hard you have worked on this project and you deserve a ATABOY


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The polyurethane finishing is done and everything reassembled. As I started the cab in early May, it's taken about siz months to get this far.

All that remains is to make and paint the metal sheathing/cladding for the top of the roof and the lettering, and then it's time to mount that sucker.


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Classic. 

Larry


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That cab is stunning Dwight!







Walt Disney would have been proud to have your engine run with his "Lilly Belle" on his Carolwood Pacific Railroad.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Turned out excellent Dwight. It's the cat's meow for sure.

How are you attaching the roof?

How are you doing the lettering?

Bob


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thousands of people will see their own smiling faces reflected back to them when they peer into the lustery finish of that cab. Great job.








How does the slide out portion of the roof effect your tin work? Were there seams in the tin in the same relative positions as the seams of the pull out roof?


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

Phenominal. Makes the Sonoma look second class.... 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Great work, Dwight! It's just beautiful!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks guys. The spray-on polyurethane turned out good. I don't mind telling you I was nervous to start it. This was again another thing I had no experience doing, and it would have been a really bad time to screw things up! hehehe 
How are you attaching the roof?Not sure yet Bob. Probably either contact cement or thick CA. Definitely thick CA at the edges where the cladding wraps around the roof curve. I have stuff I built over 20 years ago using it and it hasn't come loose yet. 
How are you doing the lettering?Again, not sure yet. Either dry transfers or decals. 
How does the slide out portion of the roof effect your tin work? Were there seams in the tin in the same relative positions as the seams of the pull out roof?For the most part the seams do line up. There will be three rows (actually, more like 2-1/2) of cladding on each side with the slide-out seam within the top two (or 1-1/2). I can arrange it so one of those will line up, but not the other.


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

YA done yet?? 
That Poly with dry and crack out in the sun if left too long. Flack off like sunburned skin. 
Need an exterior tongue oil or boat sealer.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That Poly with dry and crack out in the sun if left too long.How long is "too long?"


----------



## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
I can supply you with some vinyl lettering or even better still, you can use the vinyl negative as a stencil and paint the lettering on. Come see me when you get to that point...
Russ Miller


----------



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, I wouldn't sweat Marty's threats about the poly too much. I have had some pieces with the wipe on stuff outdoors in the sun everyday since mid summer and no peeling yet. Somehow I don't imagine you storing your loco outdoors for months at a time. I recon that finish will last a lifetime. 

Regards,


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Eric. You're right - her time in the sun will be a few hours here and a few hours there. Most of her time is spent in the garage. 

Russ - thank you... I'll keep that in mind. I'm having Stan make up the locomotive name decals for the cab. It may or may not work out due to the texture of the wood. 

Just ordered some 0.002" copper foil for the roof cladding - at least the parts that halfway follow the curve around the roof edges, and the pieces that will cover the rain gutters.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Maybe put the lettering on a thin piece of model aircraft plywood and apply to the cab. That would be easier then getting inside the trim work. Plus, if it does not look good you can abort. 

How about routing out a brass plate on your CNC mill?? Enameled brass --


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight 
I have had trim layout side for a week or so and it looked bad. any train stuff i try to use exterior stuff just to be safe , not cheap. 
I had customer think its a nice day out and put sealer on their own trim so the house does not smell, and later come out to see the wood bow and worp. 
Just sharing some thoughts.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Maybe put the lettering on a thin piece of model aircraft plywood and apply to the cab. I would hesitate to take that approach as the wood would in no way match what's already there. Stan is making me up a few extras and I plan to do a test on a scrap piece of walnut sprayed with the same polyurethane. If worse comes to worse I can always sand the nameplate area smooth and respray as required to get it smooth. I also want to spray some of the stuff over the test decal and see how the decal holds up with a polyurethane clear coat - and just how clear the "clear" polyurethane is. 
How about routing out a brass plate on your CNC mill?? Enameled brass I'll do that for the number board.  

Marty - maybe the thing to do is to make a test piece and leave it laying out for a few weeks - see how it holds up. Couldn't hurt.


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I like to use contrasting woods for my cabs ( smaller of course than yours ) with numbers also of contrasting colors. My cab "frame" is walnut the panels are birch plywood. I used walnut for the number also.

My number "9" is too small for me to CNC cut so it was hand cut from walnut...bandsaw and needle files. The spar varnish emphasizes the contrasting woods.

Your CNC machine will cut larger wood letters just as well as metal -- in any font within reason. the letters could be temporarily glued to something else as you cut them (use amberoid or Duco cements, desolve the glue with acetone when done) then glue the letter in place or pin it with small brass pins.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks terrific Eric. Not appropriate for what I'm doing though. Baldwin standard practice of the era (at least for their spiffy passenger locos) was a polished wood cab, either painted the same color as the base locomotive color (Wine, Lake), or natural wood varnished with a gloss sheen. The locomotive name was then painted on in gold letters with red multi-shade drop shadows. 










This is the effect I'm looking to achieve.


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Ooooo! that is really nice too! 

I hope the decal works... 

...other wise try a sign maker---they have vinyl material which is quite weather proof and should hold up fine...probably could do matching lettering and pin striping for the tender.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Well that sure is impressive. I like it. Later RJD


----------



## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
I have seen decals applied to wood before, and they look great. You might know this already but 4-5 coats of poly with light sanding in-between, the last coat should have a nice gloss, then the decal should adhere nicely. One final gloss coat should finish it well. 

I have used oil based polyurathane on my model steam boats and they last forever. Might you guys be talking about water-based vs oil-based, I have only used oil based poly but have seen and heard of negative experiances with water-based poly. I would also expect water based to warp wood terribly. 

Thanks 
Steve


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight when I did the cab for my Montezuma bash I stained the wood then shot it with clear to apply the decal. I would make up a test section stain and varnish how you will and try out sample decals. The real test will be to stick or not to stick. 

Id look around for a furnature restorer as they use a spray finish coat and I think its usually enamel to get they nice smooth sheen. Ive had a couple end tables redone that they have the finish you are looking for.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

*Making new handrail stanchions:*

I've never really liked the handrail stanchions supplied by Railroad Supply. They are bronze castings, not brass, and rather crude castings at that. By the time they were all cleaned up, polished, and brass plated, it's just as easy to make some new ones. Besides, they're the type that sticks out from the boiler at an angle, and I want the type of stanchions that mount to a horizontal bracket affixed to the boiler or smokebox. So while waiting for my decals, I made some new ones from 3/8 brass round stock.

Here's the AutoCAD drawing I did for the stanchions...










Dimensions are for relative, as opposed to absolute, coordinates. More on that later.

First, I cut some blanks 1.50" long. I then faced both ends and center drilled one end to accept the dead center on the lathe. The profile on the stanchions is rather thin, so turning between centers provides more support so the part doesn't break off.

The next thing to do is srill the hole for the handrail itself. Once the part is turned, it sould be very difficult - if not impossible - to get the hole centered in the ball and perpendicular to the stanchion center line. I took the first blank and chucked it up in the milling vice with the center drilled side facing outwards. Then using an electronic edge finder, I indexed to the rear surface...










and the end...










Once the part is indexed to the milling head, it's easy to come in the required distances to locate the hole center and center drill for the hole. As I am making multiple parts, I set up a stop touching the end of the indexed blank.










The hole was then drilled 0.125" diameter for the handrail...










The stop made it easy to drill matching holes in the remaining blanks.

The blanks were then turned in my Sherline CNC lathe to the correct profile. Each stanchion required 27 passes removing 0.005" of material on each pass. The actual profile cutting code was written in a separate subroutine (hence the relative coordinates). The main program would feed in 0.005" and call the subroutine, which would cut the profile and return to its starting point, then return control to the main code, which would feed another 0.005" and again call the subroutine, etc.










Here's a video of the lathe cutting the profiles for those interested...




Once all the stanchions were turned, the center drilled end was carefully turned and filed off and the end rounded by eye. The part was then sanded with 600 grit wet/dry. Then ,with the lathe running in reverse, a Dremel with a buffing wheel and some jeweler's rouge were used to polish the stanchion....










The part was then reinserted into the lathe chuck the other way around and the bottom center crilled, drilled, and tapped 2-56 for the mounting bolt...










Finally, the part was again turn around and parted off...










Four stanchions ready to go.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,
did you see the procedure I used to make stanchions for my Guinness? There is a handy little tool which makes the balls at the end. 

Regards
Henner


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

LOOKING GOOD Dwight.........


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

did you see the procedure I used to make stanchions for my Guinness? There is a handy little tool which makes the balls at the end.Yeah Henner, I did see that. Good stuff. Here, I didn't need it. CNC did the majority of the work, and the little boss that was left after turning was easily cut away and the rest removed and the end shaped with a jewelers file. Probably would have taken me longer to make the ball-shaping tool.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Your to much Dwight. Better retire and start your own business. Later RJD


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Believe me RJ, retirement is always present in my mind these days. As soon as I can swing it, all they'll see of me as a little Roadrunner dust trail heading off in the distance!







As for going into business, I've already had a hobby turn into a job once. Don't think I want to go that route again as it takes all the fun out of it.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking good as usual Dwight, how are you going to attache them? If it was me I think that I silver solder or braze a nut to the boiler shell and then put a stud in the nut and screw them on to the stud.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

how are you going to attache them?The stanchions themselves will be bolted to horizontal brackets with 2-56 scale hex head stainless steel screws. The front brackets will bolt to the smokebox like Sonoma and Eureka...










The rear bracket will be tack welded to the boiler proper when I go to Vegas at the end of the month, located immediately ahead of the boiler band. I'll have to make a new front boiler wrapper section that's notched to slip over the rear brackets.










BTW, while Sonoma's stanchions are painted, Eureka's are brass. The horizontal brackets are painted black on both locomotives, so mine will be also.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Absolutely gorgeous!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Boy! I'll sure second that! You've got a stunner there!


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

And this up to 70 pages!!! 
Dwight this must be a record here.....


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

And I'm sure there's more lurkers like me that have been following but never have posted anything! 
That locomotive looks great, almost to good to run. I'm amazed at the craftsman that Dwight is. 

Craig


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

And this up to 70 pages!!! You must have your "preferences" set to the default 10 posts/page. I see only 35 pages.









Once the cab is finished, I'm going to close out Part 1 with a link to Part 2 and start a "second section" (a little train humor for ya). Due to how the MLS software does things, it's starting to get unwieldy with long load times just to post a new reply using "Add Reply" (convenient for posting photos).

Look for some new video clips when I hit Vegas the first week of Dec. I think I'll give wood firing a shot for the first time.







Should be fun!! Plus I'm promised a cab ride in Eureka - God willing and the creek don't rise. Have camera, will travel.









Thanks Greg.







It's certainly cool to get nice feedback, but it's also very cool to know that people are enjoying the thread whether they comment or not.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 18 Nov 2011 11:49 PM 
And this up to 70 pages!!! You must have your "preferences" set to the default 10 posts/page. I see only 35 pages.









Once the cab is finished, I'm going to close out Part 1 with a link to Part 2 and start a "second section" (a little train humor for ya). Due to how the MLS software does things, it's starting to get unwieldy with long load times just to post a new reply using "Add Reply" (convenient for posting photos).

Look for some new video clips when I hit Vegas the first week of Dec. I think I'll give wood firing a shot for the first time.







Should be fun!! Plus I'm promised a cab ride in Eureka - God willing and the creek don't rise. Have camera, will travel.









Thanks Greg.







It's certainly cool to get nice feedback, but it's also very cool to know that people are enjoying the thread whether they comment or not. 


Ha ha ha... I see only 7 pages!

And, Dwight, please don't let this go to your head, but I have to replace my keyboard every time you post new photos or if I go back to look at them again. Drooling on the computer is really hard on the electronics. I am not astounded that YOU can make such a work of art... None the less, I am astounded at the work of art it is. If it works even only half as good as it looks it will be a million dollar machine, worthy of display in a national galery (I'm thinkin' Smithsonian at the least!). But that would be a shame, as any machine such as thiis NEEDS to be in use and on a shelf behind bullet proof glass is not "in use".


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Museum Quality 
A Romantic build, there's a lot of love in her. 
Are you sure you want to fire her up? All that soot and oil! 

Congratulations on a job Well Done. 

John


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight look forward to seeing you in Vegas....


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight look forward to seeing you in Vegas.... Looking forward to connecting up with you as well Mark, and Bob Sorenson too. I should get in late Thursday evening Dec 1. I'll be at Jesse's shop on Friday the 2nd, and out at the Boulder City Railroad Museum over that weekend. The following Monday thru Thursday I'll probably also be at Jesse's shop, and most likely leaving on Friday the 9th. There should be plenty of time to hook up. It'll also give you a chance to meet Jesse and see what he has going on right in your own back yard. Start saving your money bud!! hehehe

You have my cell number right?


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 19 Nov 2011 06:01 PM 
Dwight look forward to seeing you in Vegas.... Looking forward to connecting up with you as well Mark, and Bob Sorenson too. I should get in late Thursday evening Dec 1. I'll be at Jesse's shop on Friday the 2nd, and out at the Boulder City Railroad Museum over that weekend. The following Monday thru Thursday I'll probably also be at Jesse's shop, and most likely leaving on Friday the 9th. There should be plenty of time to hook up. It'll also give you a chance to meet Jesse and see what he has going on right in your own back yard. Start saving your money bud!! hehehe

You have my cell number right? 

I'll definitely stop by Jesse's for a visit. Was out to Boulder City Thursday. Road bed is all done and track about 2/3 down. They've run steam out there already. CP173 will be right at home.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

That's terrific Bob! ****, it could turn out to be like old home week! hehehe


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight,

She's looking purtyier and purtyier everyday. I'm thinking late Jan or Feb I'm gonna have to take a road trip to come an see you and her in person.

Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Sounds like a plan Tommy.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The roofing progresseth...










The center panels are 0.005" brass affixed in place with contact cement and sweat soldered together at the overlapping seams and where they overlap the rain gutters.

The rain gutters and outer edges are done in 0.002" copper. It forms real nice into the sharp corners and around the edge beading. Where the beading is radiused at the corners, the copper was annealed prior to installation and the complex curves formed by tapping with a planishing hammer. These are held in place with thick CA. and go on first under the panels. All copper overlaps are also sweat soldered together.










Since these were taken earlier this evening, the front rain gutter had been applied. I have two more small panels left at the front to finish the second row which I should be able to finish tonight. Then tomorrow it's on to the top and final row. It should be ready for paint tomorrow evening or Tuesday.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Like Tommy says, this thing gets "purty-er and purty-er"!


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking good Dwight the corner piece is just beautiful, the craftsmanship is out standing. I hate to be the one to ask the question but here it goes, shouldn't there be a notch somewhere in the gutter so the rain can drain where you want it to? How are sweat soldering the panels?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I hate to be the one to ask the question but here it goes, shouldn't there be a notch somewhere in the gutter so the rain can drain where you want it to?Great question Andre. I stewed over that one myself. Nothing in the drawings indicates any such notch. So when Jesse was going over to Dan Markoff's to crawl all over Eureka and take photos, I had him ask Dan. Turns out there are drain pipes on the rear inside corners...










The pipes are about 3/8 to 1/2" in diameter and exit through the rear corner top moulding...










(crappy iPhone low light image). Not sure if I'm going to bother including this detail as the pipe would be pretty damn small in 1/8th scale.

How are sweat soldering the panels?I don't understand the question... are you asking if it's difficult? Not really. The material is really thin for one thing so it heats up fast. I applied rosin solder with a small paint brush and tinned along each mating edge. Once the panels/gutters were glued in place, I went over the seams with a clean tip of a small iron, adding a little flux if necessary. The solder from the tinning flowed together... done.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 

You answered the question, what I was asking but didn't say was what kind of heat source were you using, torch, iron or what. Thanks for the answer on the scuppers (drain pipes), I was look at your wonderful work and the small voice in the back of the head (the one I should listen to more often) asked how does the water get out of the center. As you say it will be awfully small and you won't be running her in the rain so why put them in. I sure wished I lived closer so I could see it in person. 

Andre


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Gee-- With all the fine workmanship, adding a 3/32" copper tube is easy enough and should look all the better...Just have to blow out the cinders after the run...probably had to on the 1:1 scale engine too!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

the small voice in the back of the head (the one I should listen to more often) asked how does the water get out of the center.Great minds think alike. hehehe


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

So, when you die your wife will sale it for?????millions??? 
Man its perfect, can't believe you will take it out and run it. 

I am on my knees right now ,humbled by the master as I type....


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks Marty. You're doing a damn good job yourself (other than your choice of prototype).







I'm super impressed with your diesel frame! Wish I knew how to weld. No small trick to do it well.


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## R Snyder (May 12, 2009)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Dwight, 
Your loco just keeps getting better and better. I disagree with the people that are saying it looks too good to run. I think the patina that will develop with use will make it look even more outstanding.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

All the panels are now in place and the sheeting is done. I need to turn and mount a little tapered boss for the whistle rod to pass through, and it's ready to paint. 

I think the patina that will develop with use will make it look even more outstanding.Thanks, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. The roof will be painted gray.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

SO Richard 


when will you start your steamer???? 
I am locating all the resources plus my neighbor just bought a big milling machine to make everything I need.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

The cab roof is done.






















































Onward and upward.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight,
can't wait to see her tonight in person! When do you switch to 12" to 1' scale?
Regards


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Took these to post elsewhere in response to a question from a buddy. Figured I may as well post them here also for the sake of completeness.

Slide-out section fully removed (operating configuration)...










Slide-out section partially removed...










Slide-out section fully inserted (display configuration)...


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looking real nice can't wait to see this one.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I should get in late Thursday evening or early Thursday night Mark. I'll try and call you on Friday sometime.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Fabulous Dwight, Penny is impressed too! 

Great job on the sliding top, the best of both worlds! 

Greg


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Looks like a 1.5" scale coppersmith with a soldering bolt did the job. Very nice. The look on people's faces at GGLS will be priceless.

See ya next week.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Bob, 
Dwight will be here this week. Will be running in Boulder City this Saturday so I will not be at Clark Lords this weekend. Got to see this one run.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

I've said it before, I just have to say it again with more zeal. Awsome job Dwight, you really created a Master Piece there.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Thanks again gents. As always, I appreciate the kind comments.


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Hi Dwight: 

I really like the spring steel boiler cladding. 

What is the colour of the tender? Maroon? 

Norman


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log*

Yeah Norman. The tender, domes, and pilot deck are Baldwin "Wine" which was used up until around 1875, when they went to Lake. Eventually, I'll tear her completely down and repaint the cylinders, saddle, and frame to match.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: 7-1/2" Gauge CP #173 Builder's Log - Part 1*

Due to the sheer length and number of photos, and the consequent long load times to post anything new, I've concluded *Part 1* of this Builder's Log. It continues in *Part 2 here*. Please make any future comments there.


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