# RR Rehab in AZ



## RailPup_Design (Jul 23, 2019)

Hello

I have been asked to rehabilitate a large G scale layout in the Phoenix area. It currently has about 1300 feet of double track mainline meandering loop that has an elevation change of 10-15 feet from one end to the other. The track hasn't had any maintenance done to for 5 or more years. The track panels are all brass track, but there is no power in the track, all trains are battery driven. 

The roadbed is in bad shape, a lot of track has shifted due to heat expansion/contraction. The roadbed seems to be made of a sand/clay composition that maybe had some kind of glue or binding agent put on the top to create a hard surface. I suspect that we will have to remove all the track, remove the existing roadbed, and place a new roadbed, before we relay the track. 

I would like to hear your recommendations for roadbed construction, including materials and techniques that you like or don't like. The current owner is willing to invest in doing it the "right way" as opposed to the fast or cheap way.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Concrete is best, or I think so. 
Dennis


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I like to float mine on ballast. Since expansion and contraction are constants, I need to push it back after it has been pushed out.
I elevated my layout, so the ballast is on top of planks. 

Problem with glued ballast is cracks or rail kinks if it doesn't give.
I rake up sand on my dirt driveway after a monsoon has separated it by size in the run off.
Broken or crushed rock has sharp corners that interlock, round rock travels


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

I remember seeing a video of a cab ride on that layout which is quite impressive by its sheer size and rather generous radius curves. I would just fix the portions that need it at least from the photo you showed. Especially if it isn't track powered. As John says if you fix the track down in that kind of climate you are going to have big issues with expansion. And it will create spectacular hernias in the track. Besides with a 15' level change it is probably unsuitable for live steam except radio controled.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Been a while since there has been an update from this July posting of rehabbing a railroad layout in Phoenix area? Any progress, or did the member give up. That would be a lot of track to relay. I agree with Dennis on the base. I use concrete (I'm in north Phoenix/Glendale area). It does get hot and cold during the various seasons. What we don't have is a lot of rain. I place my rail on top of the concrete bed and use alum strips (about 1-1/2" long) and drill through the strip and into the concrete. Using an expansion sleeve and a stainless steel screw, I can adjust the pressure on the ties. This allows the network of track to move...very little, but keeps it straight. I also work on lots of shade structures to prevent the Arizona sun and UV from having a lot of affect on the rails (we often swing 30 degrees between day and night. Anyway, it would be interesting to hear how this project is coming along.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you post a picture of your "sleeve" setup?


Thanks, Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Been a while since there has been an update from this July posting


One interesting characteristic of MLS recently has been the incidence of one-time posts asking questions and then drifting away. I, too, would like to know whether our diligent attempts to help are falling on deaf ears!
Maybe MLS comes up first in all the Google searches? Maybe the other results provide better help? Who knows.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Just curious.
Do you think that this YouTube video is of the same layout?
The first rock wall and large "mushroom" shaped light, if that's what it is, look very similar to the original photo posted.
Some of the track base when the video was made looks a little questionable to me back then!
If it is not the same track then I apologize.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very likely, I forgot the name of the layout, but the "D" is Dynamite....


Famous layout where someone also tried for the longest train record, multiple locos with LocoLinc and multiple engineers, untrained... also the scandal about the USA Trains well cars... it was not the owner that did the ripoff...


I heard that this land/layout was sold recently, so maybe the new owner wants it fixed.


Greg


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg.... Yup.......... That's the Dynamite Rio Verde and Eastern. The video that David posted was back in 2003 just after the completion of the layout. 

The Arizona sun and sand has been a killer for the RR. It's a very high maintenance layout but the owner and manager are great people. 

Pup.. I hope you can help with the restoration.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

There is something strange going on at minute 13 as the train? exits the tunnel there is a piece of rail across the track and it does not derail the train. Magic I guess.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Winn,
I don't think it's actually rail.
It looks like a bit of tree or thick stem of something, so the loco just pushes it out the way.
I didn't notice it the first time I viewed it.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And the picture jumps when it hits it, and the other thing on the right side too.


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## JWLaRue (Jan 3, 2008)

Weird seeing those trains being run on the 'wrong' track as if it were British prototype!

-Jeff


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Elevate all of the layout. 
Does away with current problems, eliminates the same problems in the future. 
No crawling on the ground or bent over back pain. 
No more always looking down to watch your train. If you have to be a giant that's different.
Sit down and watch your trains eye level while enjoying a beverage of your choice.

��


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chris, this is one BIG layout, way too big to elevate I would think.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Over 1300 feet of double track does make it BIG. 
Dirk Carmichael, (passed away 2 years ago) helped build that layout and told me about it and some of the difficulties. He did that several years before I met him in 2012. Apparently there were issues with the track bed even back then. As I recall the owner was trying to set a record for a non-club layout.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

For those that don't remember Dirk his name in here was SD90WLMT and he was a frequent contributor on MLS


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

I think Greg wanted a picture of the "sleeve" or fastening clip that I use to holding the LGB track to a concrete base. The painted alum strip is made of 3/4" wide stock. I use a drill press to make 3/16 holes in the center. After the track is placed on the bed and connected to other sections via split jaws, I use a hammer drill to drill the concrete between the ties (maybe every two feet). Then I place an plastic anchor in the hole and screw through the sleeve or strip. I can adjust the amount of tension by screwing the fastener into the concrete.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Chris, this is one BIG layout, way too big to elevate I would think.



Let's talk to Jim Stapleton about elevated big layouts. 

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/p...hj-Ovhj7pZXMMBYN3Nip0Fc1S3Hly1CRrU2oHHRJ5ZBP4

http://potomac-nmra.org/LayoutTours/JimStapleton2013/album/index.html


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I am quite familiar with this layout. When visiting Arizona from 2004-2008 I would go there on friday afternoons and he would let me take a train out. I would not say this has been constructed in a cheap way. The steel bridges are all Eagle wings, and the builder has constructed some beautiful trestles. I have been following you on Face book, and you look like you know what you are doing. . It is just a big job you have taken on. I have lots of pictures of the place when it was running. 
I am curious as to where all the trains are.


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## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

bottino said:


> I am quite familiar with this layout. When visiting Arizona from 2004-2008 I would go there on friday afternoons and he would let me take a train out. I would not say this has been constructed in a cheap way. The steel bridges are all Eagle wings, and the builder has constructed some beautiful trestles. I have been following you on Face book, and you look like you know what you are doing. . It is just a big job you have taken on. I have lots of pictures of the place when it was running.
> I am curious as to where all the trains are.


Could you post some?


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