# Phase 3 Construction of the BRR begins



## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Yesterday I (meaning the guys I hired ) completed the main section of Phase 3 of the BRR. 
It is the platform for the main part of Phase 3, which will be a large rail yard / parking area, and will feature a double cross over and eventually have 2 reversing loops. 
Here is the final plans design; 





 
If you notice the outer line continues straight to Phase 4 behind the shed, while the inner line becomes a reversing loop back to Phase 3.
For the time being the outer loop is going to loop around the shed and back to the inner line of Phase 3. 
I figured that until I am ready to build Phase 4, why not make all of Phase 3 usefull and not have a 50 ft dead end  

Here are the pics of the rail yard base construction.
It is 49 x 5.5 foot long, 4 inches thick concrete pad, which has 1/2" rebar thoughout the length of the pad, and it sits on a 4" crushed rock base.
I'm pretty sure it will even support a USA Trains Big Boy or 4 


The rough out line;








Now the hard part begins (for them not me ) 


 





My back hurts just from looking at these pics, what they dug out, and what they need to fill in, 


 


 


Forms completed and base going down, once the base was installed it was level and tamped before the rebar chairs and rebar was installed. 


 


 



After lunch it was time to pour and level the cement; 


 


 


The tarp kept my white fence white










 


Looking good; 


 


 


Now the final product! It came out perfect and all in one day vs the many months it would have taken me to do, not to mention the several back surgeries  


 


 


Now it's time to start laying some track!!


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Looks great. I'd say your a cheater Rod, but I think it was a good use of your cheat. You only have 2 left though.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Haha I will keep that in mind, and be on the look out for any more on eBay.

I will be doing all the work for the lines that will attch to it though









Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Yea I know it's cheating, but my back LOVES me for it . 
To be honest with my new schedule and working in DC now if I didn't do it this way it would never get done, 
and then there's the whole digging out 45 feet of dirt and moving thousands of pounds of stone and concrete.

I ran a couple of trains on the layout for the guys After they finished, and they were blown away with them. Maybe we will have some new G scalers in the future.

Here are some pictures of how it will look with track in place; 


 


 


 


 


Tomorrow I start building the elevated section from the first phase to the rail yard.





Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Trackwork looks very nice Ron, should work well. 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I got the holes dug and supports cemented in for the rear main line today.

It's amazing how much the weather factors into the difficulty of the job.
When I built the basement exit to phase 1 of the layout it was 95' sunny and humid, thought I would die after finishing the 11th post.
Today it was 60 and cloudy, did 16 posts and feel OK, not great mind you am a little sore, but not dying either . 


Tomorrow I will do the roadbed for the track, and start on the second line.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like you are going to have some nice long runs. 

Do you run long trains? (how long usually?) 

Are you Kadee or ?? 

Greg


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

You need more railroad, you still have entirely too much grass to cut!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 Apr 2012 08:11 PM 
Looks like you are going to have some nice long runs. 

Do you run long trains? (how long usually?) 

Are you Kadee or ?? 

Greg 

I plan on running very long passenger and freight trains with multiple engine consists.
I figure they will average 30 feet long. I made the sidings in the new yard 35, 33, 32, and 30 feet long to accommodate them.
I will also occasionaly run some 80 car, 4 engine coal trains, and 25 car intermodal consists







. 
I am going the extra mile to make sure the track work is as good as I can get it and the grade as low as possible.

I have been converting all my rolling stock to ball bearings and body mounted Kadee 907's.
I have finished about 60 2 bays so far, and all of my refers, boxcars, tank and drop end gondolas cars.
I also plan on running the big USA intermodals, have 4 of the 5 car units rdy to go. 

Posted By Amber on 29 Apr 2012 09:41 AM 
You need more railroad, you still have entirely too much grass to cut!  

That is the plan, phase three is the connector between Phase 1 and Phase 4, and staging area for the rail road.
Phase 4 will be to the right of the shed and be 30' x 120' in size. It will also be much less dense track wise and much more
aesthetic in it's design with lots of tunnels, trestle's, bridges ect. (eventually







)

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Finished the rear elevated main line today, ended up with just a 1% grade in the second half of it, on to the front one tomorrow .


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

The weather turned warmer today making the work a lot harder .
I finished laying out the second main line, and digging out and cementing in the 19 support posts today .


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Wow, you got a massive backyard, Rod. You usually dont see that large of a yard in the city.


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## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for these posts. I just moved and have no room for trains for about the next 3-5 years. Everything is stored so it's really great to see someone making such progress and in such an expansive area. Thank you for keeping my dream alive while you live yours!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By jake3404 on 02 May 2012 10:01 AM 
Wow, you got a massive backyard, Rod. You usually don't see that large of a yard in the city. 

I'm pretty far from a major city, 60 miles south of Philly and 40 south of Wilmington.
I "used" to live in the sticks, was nothing around here when we had our house built, can't say that anymore though







.
Oh btw Jake it's Ron not Rod









Posted By fsfazekas on 02 May 2012 11:12 AM 
Thanks for these posts. I just moved and have no room for trains for about the next 3-5 years. Everything is stored so it's really great to see someone making such progress and in such an expansive area. Thank you for keeping my dream alive while you live yours! 

Thanks Frank glad I could help. I was in your exact shoes from 95-99 when we lived in an apartment. 
I just kept my eyes out for bargains and tried to learn as much as I could to help me plan and build my layout when the time came.
It's also a good way for me to document everything I'm doing in case I forget how I did something I can always look it up online (happens more than I like to admit







)

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished the second elevated main line today. 
Of course the weather today was cloudy and 65', yesterday it was 84 sunny and humid for the 19 holes and cement work .

I kept the first 8 feet from phase 1 level, and then maintained about a 1% and less grade to the rail yard. 
Here are the pics; 


 


 


 


 


 


Everything came out pretty nice, and I'm very happy with the result .
It's back to work for me tomorrow, god knows I need the rest, lol.
I'll start the other end next week.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron,

Great looking expansion! I'm curious about the thin pieces you used on each side of the vertical posts. I'm trying to find that material here in So. California. Lowes has vinyl based lattice boards similar to what you used, except it is special order. Their size is 1/4" thick by 1 35/64 by 8 feet long in vinyl. Is this what you are using?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

yup all the PVC boards and trims are from Lowes. 

The main road bed is made up of 3/4" x 5 1/2" x 8' "Rot Free PVC Board" from Lowe's (item #238345), 
it sits on a support track made up of 1/4" x 1 35/64" x 8' PVC trim (item #209626) with 1.5" x 1.5" x 2.5" PVC (item #15649) blocks that hold the trim strips together.
The lowes by me stocks the latice trim, its $5 a piece.

Ron


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 02 May 2012 10:47 PM 
Posted By jake3404 on 02 May 2012 10:01 AM 
Wow, you got a massive backyard, Rod. You usually don't see that large of a yard in the city. 

I'm pretty far from a major city, 60 miles south of Philly and 40 south of Wilmington.
I "used" to live in the sticks, was nothing around here when we had our house built, can't say that anymore though







.
Oh btw Jake it's Ron not Rod











Whoops, my bad,







. I'm terrible with names.

It looked like you lived in a subdivision. But obviously they allowed for large lots. Progress is looking great.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 02 May 2012 11:32 PM 
yup all the PVC boards and trims are from Lowes. 

The main road bed is made up of 3/4" x 5 1/2" x 8' "Rot Free PVC Board" from Lowe's (item #238345), 
it sits on a support track made up of 1/4" x 1 35/64" x 8' PVC trim (item #209626) with 1.5" x 1.5" x 2.5" PVC (item #15649) blocks that hold the trim strips together.
The lowes by me stocks the latice trim, its $5 a piece.

Ron

Thanks Ron. Now I can order!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

One other tip, go to your local post office and ask for a change of address / relocation kit, inside there is a 10% discount coupon for Lowes









Ron


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## Skipford (Apr 23, 2012)

This is very inspiring. Thanks for the great pictures and good chronicle of the [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

OOOHHH to be young again!!!!!!


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Bah, only as old as you feel Marty


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Well started the next phase of the phase 3 build this week.

After pricing out all the options and factoring in the amount of time, labor, and upkeep maintenance needed, I decided to go with concrete for my road beds and took the plunge.

First off shopping for materials,

Nice sale on 40 lb bags at lowes this week, $1.50 a bag with my coupon. I paid for 42 bags, got 52 because they didn't feel like unloading them off the pallet







.

 
 
And of course no concrete road bed railroad would be complete without this essential piece of equipment;


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Got some more work done this weekend. Put down the weed barrier and 2 yards of stone. 
The first phase of the BRR, with the ponds and the pink and white stone, will be Switzerland and have the RHB Glacier Express and the Bernina express running on it.
This phase is going to be the plains in the mid west so I went with pea gravel for a plains look. 
Look ma no more Grass







.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am on my third Mixer. I wore out two already on the NEW RIVER & WESTERN RR.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

That was one of the reasons I bought the Lowes mixer instead of the home Depot one.
The Lowes one comes with a 3 year warranty vs the 90 day warranty on the Home Depot one.

Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't understand??? What is a Mixer for???? 
Where is the fun in that?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty the mixer is to make drinks.







Later RJD


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 29 May 2012 02:07 PM 
I don't understand??? What is a Mixer for???? 
Where is the fun in that? The fun is the next day when I can still move around









Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm REALLY IMPRESSED with your slab, you would think it came from a truck.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Made some more progress yesterday. I finished digging out the first reversing loop it will have approximately a 9 ft diameter.
I used and 3 8ft 2x4s as a guide for the diameter of the curve. I placed them centered in a star formation and added another 6" to the end of each end,
then marked it with a stake. Then I used my trusty Mantis to dig out the roadbed. The Mantis is a perfect tool for this job because if you turn the tines 
around to the cultivating/weeding position (tines facing away from you) it only removes the top 1-2 inches, and its also the perfect width for a track road bed








Today I will form it up and get it ready for concrete tomorrow.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished framing out the loop today, and also bent all the rebar. 
I was how long it took to frame the roadbed more time involved than I thought.
It was my first time so maybe next time it will go faster. 

The only thing left is to tie the rebar together, install the rebar chairs, and start mixing and pouring the concrete. 


 
 
I am so ready to fire this puppy up







, any last words of advice, or tips before I jump in nows the time.

Thanks, Ron


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## Skipford (Apr 23, 2012)

Two questions out of pure helpfulness/curiosity.. 

1. Why do you have a form at the end of the track where you are going to connect to the existing concrete? You should either install a piece of redwood or bitumen expansion material onto the surface of the existing concrete and not put a form, or hammer drill holes and put the rebar into the side of the concrete and let the forms die into the concrete and just tool a control joint. 

2. You may want to consider adding conduit under the concrete for wiring to pass underneath, if you don't want to dig under the new concrete when you are done. It may not be necessary but just a reminder that now is an opportune time.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Skipford on 01 Jun 2012 06:51 PM 
Two questions out of pure helpfulness/curiosity.. 

1. Why do you have a form at the end of the track where you are going to connect to the existing concrete? You should either install a piece of redwood or bitumen expansion material onto the surface of the existing concrete and not put a form, or hammer drill holes and put the rebar into the side of the concrete and let the forms die into the concrete and just tool a control joint. 

2. You may want to consider adding conduit under the concrete for wiring to pass underneath, if you don't want to dig under the new concrete when you are done. It may not be necessary but just a reminder that now is an opportune time. 
Thanks for the question and the tip,

I was originally going to connect the 2 pads, but then I didn't want to drill into the new pad. 
I thought it would just add more stress to the pad leading to possible cracking down the road.

I plan on having the track rest on a thin layer of ballast to hide the concrete and make it look more like a real.
I didn't want to place the two sections closer because if there was some heave it would be much harder to compensate for it if the pads are right next to each other. 
The gap will be filled with stone ballast and it will be very easy to adjust the level of the track if there is movement.
The gaps on both sides of the pad is also where I plan on attaching the power feeds for the track.

Thanks for the conduit tip, I will add a couple.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished the first reversing loop this past week and it came out pretty good. 
Less than 1% grade going to the rail yard, and I was able to keep a .5% level in the curve ( has a slight bank to the inner rail for stability and drainage).
The entire road bed came out pretty smooth as well with only some minor flaws that will never effect operations.

I also learned a few things that will help make building the other end much faster and easier.

Here are the completed pics of the first reversing loop;

Ron

Starting the pour, I got it down to about 20 minutes per each 200 lbs of concrete/mortar mix (120lbs concrete + 60 lbs mortar)


I was able to keep it level and relatively smooth the whole way around, no missteps so to speak, lol



All the cement is poured and smoothed.

 

The finished product with all the forms removed and stone going in, the wife wanted to keep the little "Island" in the center of the loop.
So for now it will stay, maybe not after trying to cut it a few times, lol.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, that is very, very nicely done. It's great to see how your stuff turns out...


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks for sharing Ron. 

I really like how the roadbed looks. I put a small stretch of concrete bed down a few years ago as a test and your work is pretty inspiring. 

I think there is still waaay too much grass tho. Looking forward to watching phases 4 thru 10 taking over the whole yard! 

Cheers 
Neil


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks for all the kind words guys.
Just so you all know everything I have done so far I have learned from all of you, with a little of me mixed in. 
That what makes these forums so great. If you take the time all the information you'll ever need can be found on great sites like this one.

I will start the on other end next week, need give my body a little time to recover








I am planing a double line up to and around the back of the shed, 
then it will probably be another PVC ladder across the front of the shed, and back to the double line.
I will depend on how the road bed will lay out because of uneven ground.

One quick question, did you guys take the time to seal the concrete, or just leave it as it was finished?

Thanks again, Ron


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## RickV (May 25, 2012)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 05 Jun 2012 02:13 PM 
One quick question, did you guys take the time to seal the concrete, or just leave it as it was finished?

Thanks again, Ron


I thought about this too as I re-do my track beds with concrete and I came to the conclusion that unless the concrete will be exposed for people to see then there is no real point as the ballast will hide any colour change or moss growth.

However, thinking back to high-school geology and how water that seeps into rocks then freezes tends to crack said rocks, if you are in an area that suffers from frosts and your concrete is wet, would it do similar and crack when frozen?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

It looks great. I can't wait to see it with all the track down. 

Is there going to be a second Reversing loop? 

JJ


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Yes there will be another reversing loop on that end as well. 
If you look on the first post second picture you'll see the plan for that end. 
If you notice the outer line continues straight to Phase 4 behind the shed, while the inner line becomes a reversing loop back to Phase 3. 
For the time being the outer loop is going to loop around the shed and back to the inner line of Phase 3. 
I figured that until I am ready to build Phase 4, why not make all of Phase 3 useful and not have a 50 ft dead end








Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Did you decide on your autoreversers Ron? 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05 Jun 2012 11:46 PM 
Did you decide on your autoreversers Ron? 

Greg 

Yes, I'm going to use those PSX-AR units you mentioned, I have a couple of questions about them,
I know I will need another power supply and booster for the new section, (I use the same exact set up as you have) how will that be wired? 
Do I connect it like I have on the main layout? Or do I have to run power to the auto reversers directly and also to each isolated section?

I sent you an email today about the new changes I made with pictures.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

First, adding autoreversers has nothing to do with adding boosters, the autoreversers are powered from your booster or the track itself. They have 2 input wires and 2 output wires. You could locate them right where you put your insulated joiners right out on the layout, just put in a weatherproof box. This keeps the wires short. To repeat, they are "self-powered". Connect 2 inputs to the 2 rails of the "supply" section, and the 2 outputs to the rails of the "insulated reversing block". 

You can also "nest" reversing loops "within" reversing loops, and the PSX-AR units have a special provision to accomodate this better than any other autoreverser in my understanding. (if you have a "loop" within a "loop" theoretically both autoreversers could try to operate at the same time, this eliminates that). 

So, isolate a section, and right there, put an autoreverser, and nice short wires, meaning no significant voltage drop or extra wiring. 

I'm looking at your pictures for the correct placement, but remember it's pretty flexible, since you don't have to do any "home run" wiring to power them separately, they will attach to the rails basically right at the insulated joints. 

Now, the bigger, more fundamental question is do you need another booster? 

I would say yes. This really depends on how many trains are running at the same time. With the size of your layout, I would say you should put it into 2 separate "power districts" and have 2 boosters. The Command station will "power" both boosters, i.e. you only need to buy another 10 amp booster. With 2 power districts, you should be able to run 2 trains on each mainline, or one big, heavy current one on each mainline at the same time. Lighted passenger cars can really suck current. Also, don't underestimate the draw if you have several locos idling in your switchyard with sound on. I have a separate 10 amp power district just for my switchyard. 

The power districts should be broken up along where the trains are, so the most logical division would be the 2 mainlines, not one end or the other. 

This is actually easy to do, just where you put insulating joiners. The autoreversers will handle all "polarity" issues. 

Hope this helps. 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

OK here is how I am understanding how to wire the new section for DCC with auto reversers.

I isolated phase 3 from phase 1, I then isolated the first reversing loop and added the first auto reverser and the first power feeder.

pic 1;




This is where it gets fuzzy for me, the insulator for the first reversing loop I am sure about, but the double cross over is where I'm not sure.
I think this is how it would be done.


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ron 
From what I'm seeing you forgot the insulator in the double crossover between the two switches on the track by the auto reverser #2 and another one in the loop around the shed just past the feeders. Maybe I'm missing something but that what it looks like to me. 

Greg will know for sure. 

Rodney


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished the first 2/3 of the expansion today, it came out really nice. 
I will start the other end next week, I hope it goes as smooth as the first part did.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

ron, your are close... 

first, your insulators are in fine positions, I like how you maximized the length of the reversing loop 

the way you have the autoreverser #1 is fine, but normally you try not to "nest" a reversing track on a reversing track, but the psx-ar's can handle it. 

now you need to handle the reversing from the crossover, but the southern yard tracks are already powered, so they will power autoreverser #2... the northern track. 

You can use a second power feed at the right hand end of the yard... so just move that feeder to the yard tracks (and the autoreverser output goes to the top track) 

So basically your feed power to the yard tracks... the yard tracks power the autoreversers, one to the reversing loop, and the other to the "top" track. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 08 Jun 2012 07:52 PM 
ron, your are close... 

first, your insulators are in fine positions, I like how you maximized the length of the reversing loop 

the way you have the #1 is fine, but normally you try not to "nest" a reversing track on a reversing track, but the psx-ar's can handle it. 

now you need to handle the reversing from the crossover, but the southern yard tracks are already powered, so they will power auto reverser #2... the northern track. 

You can use a second power feed at the right hand end of the yard... so just move that feeder to the yard tracks (and the auto reverser output goes to the top track) 

So basically your feed power to the yard tracks... the yard tracks power the, one to the reversing loop, and the other to the "top" track. 

Regards, Greg 

Ok I see what you mean about the reversing loop nested so I changed it around a little.
I isolated the first loop from the yard, powered the yard and isolated it from the second reversing loop.
I also added an extra feed for the top line and isolated it from the 2nd reversing loop.

I am also going by the wiring diagram you sent me so that when I do connect it to phase 4 there will be less rewiring.

let me know what you think.

Ron

Here is the rewire picture (I shortened all the trackage up so you could see it all in one picture);


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One picture really helps. Still does not work though, since you have a reversing loop on the right side that cannot reverse... because the track is continuous. 

Take out the insulator you added next to the crossover assembly, the one on the top track, just to the left of the "assembly". now you need to allow the top track to work independently of the bottom track, but they are continuous. Put an insulator at the extreme far right of the loop, the part that is out of the picture. Now the top track is independent of the bottom track, and autoreverser #2 can do it's job. 

You see how it was impossible to change the polarity of the top track independently of the bottom, because they are still electrically joined via the loop on the right? You basically did not isolate the reversing section, it was still one big piece. 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

AHHHH now I see it, makes perfect sense.
Here is the corrected schematic, I think I got it now







.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have a question about the operation of the sections.

The way I understand it you can only have consist within the section at one time. 
It can't be any longer than the isolated section, meaning the train cannot cross both of the insulators at the same time.
The length of the reversing loop will effectively be the max length on the consist, if that consist has powered or lighted cars in it.
Is that about right?

One question i do have is what happens when I have a consist going though the auto reverser #1 towards auto rev #2 an they span both sections and continue around the shed on the lower track?
Or the same scenario but then take the first left turnout through the double crossover (going around reversing loop auto #1 towards auto #2 and then taking the crossover to the top track) 

Ron


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## spincaster (Mar 10, 2012)

Looking at all this makes me glad I'm doing live steam rather than electric power! NCE DCC time?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If I understand what you are asking, is it ok for the train to be in both autoreversing sections at the same time. 

Since both autoreversers can operate independently, and they are not "nested" they will work fine. 

Also the "rule" you stated is not precisely true, but the discussion is pretty long. Suffice it to say that you should not worry and hook it up. 

If you have any trepidation, then just temporarily wire the feeders and the autoreversers, EVERYTHING can be moved or changed by just moving a wire or insulated joiner. 

Trust me, it will work. 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Good Job Bob


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By spincaster on 10 Jun 2012 03:59 PM 







Looking at all this makes me glad I'm doing live steam rather than electric power! 

Really? Really??? Live steam is all easy peasy no issues or anything? Runs perfectly right our of the box? Hmm maybe I'll just scrap all my sparkies and go live steam







.

Ok back to reality, Thanks Greg I am all set then I'll wire it up just like that and hit you up when I start the next phase, thanks for the help.

Thanks Marty you gave me the confidence to go concrete and I followed your advice on it's construction, and so far so good.
I would like to know if you happen to have your thread on building a concrete roadbed saved anywhere though, the mod was unable to retrieve it from the archives?

Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, You can write one now, I have no idea after Shad updates stuff. 
I just feel sooo outdated...... 

I still can't believe your slab looks so good using bag mix.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks Marty,
Oh btw, It's B o d as is BodsrailRoad , first name is Ron







.

The slab was from a truck though just brought over in a buggy, you'll see it in the pictures at the beginning of the thread.

The reversing loop is from mixer using your recipe


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 10 Jun 2012 06:40 PM 
{snip...}[/i] I would like to know if you happen to have your thread on building a concrete roadbed saved anywhere though, the mod was unable to retrieve it from the archives? _{snip...}_
Ron

Is this what you're looking for?

 Concrete Roadbed: Not as Hard as One Thinks - Marty Cozad (PDF 407KB)[/b]


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Yes thats it thanks a lot!! I will save it.

I read it over and it brings up a question, I did my roadbed mix 2 bags concrete + 1 bag of Mortar mix per this post I found from Marty, 

04 Mar 2011 10:41 AM personally 3/8" rebar bends easy to install, we are usually talking only a 3" wide X 2" deep ribbon, which 3/8" is fine. 
I've lifted 15ft sections and moved them to other places because I'm cheep. 
again this is one you can over think. 
I started using 3/8 rebar , two bags concrete mix and 1 bag mortar mix for strength. gets about 25 to 30 ft strips. about 13 years ago and 4 layouts ago.







*Marty Cozad
North Table Creek GRR
Nebraska City, NE*


But after reading the guide it says in there that its 2 bags of concrete + 1 bag of Cement. I Hope I didn't screw up. 
I know mortar is cement mixed with sand will it make any difference? I used 10 60lb bags of it mixed with 30 40lb bags on concrete.

Ron


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## Rail Planet (Jan 22, 2012)

I just started following this, and it looks like you got a really solid railroad in the works! Keep up the good work, and I'm enjoying seeing your progress.


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ron 
The Portland Cement adds strength to the mix. Most bagged concrete is about 2500 psi (unless it is marked otherwise) and by adding the bag of portland in Marty's mix, puts the rating up around 7500 psi to 8000 psi (guessing without figuring it all out) concrete. You will be OK since you added to rebar to it. Most residential sidewalks and patios are either 2500 psi or 3000 psi mix. Most basement walls and foundations I have poured use 2500 psi mix. You'll be OK and don't worry about it. 

Your RR is coming along very nicely. Be nice to see trains running on the whole thing when you get that far. 

Rodney


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yeah, I cant imagine you needing 7500 psi concrete for your railroad Ron. Unless you plan on putting 1:1 stuff on it. The morter mix has more sand it so it should result in a smoother finish, which from the pictures looks like it did. 

I think it will be just fine. The addidtion is looking great.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

OK thats good to hear I was worried I comited a fatal error. For furtue pours should I take back the mortar mix and get cement, or will it be fine?

Here is what I am using for mortar - mortar data sheet, 
 Here is the concrete mix - concrete data ,


 
It's to late to change whats down, but for future pours just want to be correct.
Thanks guys, Ron


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ron 
I would just keep on what you are doing. Looking at the data sheet, it says that the concrete is a 4000 mix at 2" to 3 " slump (dry). What it doesn't say is how much strength you loose when you add more water to get it wet (6" slump) enough to pour. This is why I said it is a 2500 pound mix. If you do anything different, you might just take back the mortar mix and just use the concrete mix. 

Rodney


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I concur with what Rodney said.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I just heard back from Marty and it is supposed to be Mortar, not cement.

"Mortar is right. makes it more sticky.
thanks
Marty Cozad"


It was just never changed in the guide, so we are good to go







.
Thanks again guys for all your help, on to the other side.

Ron


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

This is a cool post to follow. Thanks for sharing all the steps. Very nice! Now if I could get someone to mix all that concrete for me ............ Urgggg, Joe


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Made great progress today on the last part of phase 3 today. I finished digging out the road bed base of the double main line to phase 4, and the 2nd reversing loop back to the rail yard
It really helped that it poured on Tuesday made the ground much softer to dig in.
I will frame it all out tomorrow and do the concrete work on Saturday.

Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

That will be a great run, hope folks who live by you come and run also.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I got my shopping done today, boy are those 80lb bags HEAVY!!!, but since the 40lb bags only cost 70 cents less than the 80 lb bags my cheapness overruled my laziness







.


 
I also started framing out the last section, should be finished tomorrow and pouring concrete Monday.


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey Ron 
Is that a Vet under the dust cover in the garage??? It looks like it could be a C4,5 or 6. 
BTW your roadbed is looking first class and it going to look awesome. 

Rodney


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Rods UP 9000 on 16 Jun 2012 08:39 PM 
Hey Ron 
Is that a Vet under the dust cover in the garage??? It looks like it could be a C4,5 or 6. 
BTW your roadbed is looking first class and it going to look awesome. 

Rodney 
If that is a vet under that tarp better not let Randy Stone see that stuff piled on top. He will come up there and make derogatory remarks about your parental origin.










JJ


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Is it going to be a Double Mainline all the way around the shed?

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No... track plan is on previous page JJ 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Rods UP 9000 on 16 Jun 2012 08:39 PM 
Hey Ron 
Is that a Vet under the dust cover in the garage??? It looks like it could be a C4,5 or 6. 
BTW your roadbed is looking first class and it going to look awesome. 

Rodney 

No it's a Porsche GTR track car, one of my old hobbies







. 
Posted By John J on 17 Jun 2012 08:43 AM 
Is it going to be a Double Mainline all the way around the shed?

JJ 

It is a work in progress, originally there is going two be dual mainline around the shed with the inner line looping back to the rail yard, the outer to phase 4. 

I changed it up for now to make use of all the track I start phase 4. It will be a single line around the shed and back to the yard.

The final construction will be a dual mainline to phase 4 with a turnout behind the shed leading back to the rail yard.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished installing the rebar, and tieing it all together, and started pouring the concrete today.


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## RickV (May 25, 2012)

That last photo contains a very good tip for those who are going to do some concrete mixing on grass - put a plastic sheet down to catch any spillage as it is pretty painful to try and get it out otherwise. I tell this from experience....


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I poured 4000 lbs of concrete/mortar today. I made a lot of progress only have about 25 feet to go.
I had wanted to get it all done in one pour but wasn't able to, both time and soreness were against me







, not to mention 95' temps








Will have to finish it next week.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

And some people make this sound so hard..?????


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By NTCGRR on 21 Jun 2012 04:26 PM 
And some people make this sound so hard..????? 


Amen and Amen Brother Marty.









JJ

Rod? Are you done yet?









Where are the ding dang Pictures









JJ


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished the rest of the road bed for phase 3 today, everything came out really well. 
Next I'm going to build a ramp for the tractor to get in and out of the shed.
Then I have to finish the edging and lay the rest of the stone then it's time for track work.

Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Is Phase 4 in the middle photo??? What a great run.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 26 Jun 2012 07:46 PM 
Is Phase 4 in the middle photo??? What a great run. 
Nope everything in this thread is all part of phase 3, phase 1 is the section with the ponds, phase 2 is the basement elevated rail yard and elevated connector to phase 1.

Phase 4 will be to the right of the shed. It will be a 120' x 30' area and will have 3 or 4 independent lines.
I want to make this section much more scenic and plan to have mountains and tunnels and stuff like that.

You can see the connector to phase four in this picture on the left. 
I will have a double main line going to it, with the reversing loop going around the shed back to the rail yard, until I build phase 4 
I will just run a single line going around the shed back to the rail yard.

Ron


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

WOW you did a really great job on that road bed.

What part of the country are you in ?

JJ


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks JJ. I am in Middletown Delaware.
It wasn't to hard to do (technically that is, but it is labor intensive though







), I just used what I learned from you and Marty's thread and posts about concrete road bed and went to town.

The one question I have for you guys, do you do anything special at the joints were a cured section is added on to?
What I did was to make a nice taper so the new concrete would have something to cling to.
I did find it some what a pain to get the road bed surface exactly smooth at the joints though.

Ron


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

The concrete is going to crack, so the cold joints would have made a good location for control joints.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

To the left of the shed is what I was reffering to , great. 
PS.I just leave about 10" of rebar sticking out to tie the next section to. Even adding switches i drill a hole to stick the new rebar into so they stay level with each other.

I've had very little if any cracking on mine over the years.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By NTCGRR on 27 Jun 2012 03:12 PM 
To the left of the shed is what I was reffering to , great. 
PS.I just leave about 10" of rebar sticking out to tie the next section to. Even adding switches i drill a hole to stick the new rebar into so they stay level with each other.

I've had very little if any cracking on mine over the years. 


Me Too.

I just continue on where I left off. I wet the dry part before I pour the new part 

JJ


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

That's one **** of a lot of track. Did you inherit the track or just win the lotto? How many feet of track are you planning n?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have been acquiring track every year for the last 5 years or so to spread out the costs. The track is all bought for the rail road now (at least I hope it is







)
This section will have about 500 feet of track or so with the rail yard, there is about 700 feet in the first phase, 
and am figuring about another 600-700 feet for the last phase give or take a few feet.
I'm guessing the total for everything will be about 2000 feet or so.

Ron


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## Cyborg1 (Jun 16, 2009)

Hi Ron, 
Other than the slab, how wide and how deep did you pour your concrete roadbed? Also, what did you use in your forms to make such smooth curves? Definitely looks like your doing everything right the first time!! 
Joe


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

This is really coming out nice with some great train run... Keep up the photos.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Cyborg1 on 28 Jun 2012 03:41 PM 
Hi Ron, 
Other than the slab, how wide and how deep did you pour your concrete roadbed? Also, what did you use in your forms to make such smooth curves? Definitely looks like your doing everything right the first time!! 
Joe 

The double track sections are about 15" wide and range from 3 1/2" to 6" think depending on the grade. The single track sections are about 6" wide and again range from 3 1/2" to 6" think depending on the grade. 

For the curved sections I used 4ft X 8ft x 1/8" think plywood sheets and had the cut into 4" x 8ft strips.
I got 12 4" X 8ft strips per sheet of plywood. It works out to about 83 cents per strip which is pretty cheep.
The 1/8" plywood strips were flexible enough to form all the curves with no problem and made it easy to adjust for grades.

Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I think what is encouraging for Bob is that Phase 1 proved; its worth the time and money to build it this way.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

This a great project but my biggist concern in the long run is the stabilization of the track on the concrete. This will get tricky in the long run. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

"stabilization" 
?? please explain. 
I use exspantion joints on long runs.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I would guess that over time, you will have to ballast the track, i.e. ballast between the track and the concrete, since the concrete will eventually move... although maybe nothing moves in the desert. 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

To compensate for track expansion on the long runs of straight track I plan on using the 1" Split Jaw expansion joints on each line.
I am using Train-Li Nickel plated brass track with Pro-Line ties, they don't use screws to secure the track to the ties.
They will move freely in the ties and the split jaws should prevent any buckling.

I tend to agree with Greg that over time there may be some shifting off level center, and it will be corrected using a thin layer of ballast as needed.
I do think that it will be much less and much easier to correct, especially in the rail yard, than if it was all free floating.
Time will tell I suppose and that is all part of the hobby









Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I started the final push to finish the construction part of phase 3 on Friday.
The first step was to build the ramp from the shed to the road bed.
It took 20 80lb bags on concrete and 4 60 inch 1/2 rebar bars for strength.
I then filled in all the gaps on the sides of the roadbed and removed the sod around the curved section behind the shed to level the grade.
Then I started to put down the commercial grade weed barrier. I will start moving the 7 yards of pea gravel on Sunday.

Here are some pics.











Not looking forward to moving these seven yards on stone,lol.


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

I've been monitoring your progress as I live vicariously thru your build to get my fix as mine is slow in progress. Gonna be really nice but I've had one really curious thing I've been thinking about. I noticed you had a crew come in for that early pad but since then have been busting your balls on the rest and now the drive pad. Why didn't you just have the crew do the rest and save your back, time, etc for ALL THAT CONCRETE. It hurt my back just watching the post as I've done concrete work and it's not fun doing by yourself.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I guess the main reason is that I really like doing things myself if I am able to and it is feasible. 

I had the main pad done by a crew because of the sheer volume of concrete needed for it, almost 7 yards,
would have been to do by myself in any realistic time frame. I also didn't have any experience working with concrete.
The other factor was the cost, it was only a couple hundred more for them to do it vs myself.

In hindsight I guess I could have also had the rest of the layout planned and formed out and just had them pour it, but to be honest I really wasn't sure how I 
wanted it to look yet and I needed to see how everything would fit together after the pad was in place.

Once I had it all figured out the cost was much higher for them doing it than doing it myself, because of the low amount of concrete and the complexity of it vs just a pad.

On a positive note I am now a concrete laying machine and have really gotten very good at it







.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I got 5 yards of stone moved today and finished up 3/4 of last part of phase 3.
I only have to finish up the front boarder tomorrow and I'll be done with the foundation for phase 3.

Here are some pics of my progress;


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

please keep the pics coming, great job!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished the construction phase of Phase 3 today, everything came out really nice and I like the product.
I am going to take August off to relax a little bit and recuperate







. I am also going to the GRRC in Chicago to get some more idea's for detail work.
I will start laying track for phase 3 in September.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I started laying track today on Phase 3 of the BRR







.
I finished the splice from Phase 1 to Phase 3. 
More to come next week.

Ron







I also started laying the track for the first reversing loop.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Is there any reason why you did not line up the track from the existing layout to the new addition? This track guy does not miss much when it comes to alignment. Later RJD


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

The big rail yard pad couldn't come out any further from the fence because of the septic field, and I didn't feel like moving phase 1 closer to the fence to line it up better, 
, so I had to adjust the raised sections to compensate. 

Ron


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## FHER_operator (Sep 7, 2012)

Keep up the great work, Ron! This is very impressive, and it'll be a beautiful sight to watch electrics dashing across such long stretches of track.


-Steven


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

RJ, you better never come and look at my layout, you'll have a heart attack. Mine works very well, almost never a derailment, but if you spotted that alinement issue on Ron's you'd be very busy writing up all my track work issues.








Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm sure RJ wouldn't have commented except I think I feel the same way, Ron's layout is pretty basically perfect trackwork, so was surprised to see the misalignment. 

Regards, Greg


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 Sep 2012 04:00 PM 
I'm sure RJ wouldn't have commented except I think I feel the same way, Ron's layout is pretty basically perfect trackwork, so was surprised to see the misalignment. 

Regards, Greg 
I'm not complaining about RJ commenting on it, Just pointing out that I've seem much worse that don't cause problems. I'm just amazed that you and RJ can spot those things so easily. I have a friend who comes over to my railroad and adjusts things that I can't see. After he's done everything runs much better. I get my eye ball down there and see nothing wrong. Some of you guys spot it all. It's a very useful talent. I just don't seem to have it.
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have steep grades and little space for vertical transitions, and learned to be more critical of my trackwork... it has paid of in spades. RJ came over my place and "straightened" me out and I have "got my mind right" (remember cool hand luke movie?) 

that track alignment is cosmetic only given the long distance for the transition. 

Greg


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

So any updates with pics?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By mickey on 31 Mar 2013 07:29 AM
So any updates with pics?

Just waiting on the weather to turn so I can get started laying the rest of the track.
I have acquired all the electronics needed for this phase over the winter, and once it's installed then I just have to wire everything up.
I hope to be up and running by June or so.

Ron


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

So now I'm gonna play the role of "my wife". WELL, HURRY UP AND GET IT DONE. I'M TIRED OF WAITING. 

;-)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mickey, you been listening to Marty "is it done yet?" Cozad!


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Just yesterday, the wife had the audacity to say to me while I took a break to take a pic, "boy is this thanking more time than you ever imagined"......translated meaning "when are you gonna get this finished as I have things for you to do". I told her "Texas is a right to work state and that means I get to decide for myself when I want to get right on her list of things." But I waited for her to go back inside before I said that. ;-)


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I keep checking for an update photo. I'm pouring concrete Tuesday around 10 AM for my pad.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Marty do you seal your concrete roaches?
Everything made it through winter ok no cracks or heaving so far,
just wanted to ask before I finish laying the rest of the tracks. 

Ron


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Marty.....Get Will To take video of your concrete pour and post it 

JJ


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 01 Apr 2013 08:44 PM 
Marty do you seal your concrete roaches?
Everything made it through winter ok no cracks or heaving so far,
just wanted to ask before I finish laying the rest of the tracks. 

Ron 
Roaches>???????


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 02 Apr 2013 04:24 PM
Posted By BodsRailRoad on 01 Apr 2013 08:44 PM 
Marty do you seal your concrete roaches?
Everything made it through winter ok no cracks or heaving so far,
just wanted to ask before I finish laying the rest of the tracks. 

Ron 
Roaches>???????



LOL, supposed to be Roadbed, stupid auto spell correction on my phone. 
Sooooo the question is do you seal your concrete roadbeds?

Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Answer is NO to both.LOL 
As RJ knows, I don't use spell check.LOL


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for asking him Marty, I went all over the net trying to find "Concrete Roaches" ...... thought it was a secret term for G scale concrete roadbed parts ha ha! 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Had some really nice weather the last few days and made great progress laying the rest of the track for Phase 3.
I finished the yard and the forward reversing loops, as well as the track around the shed. I only have about 20 feet to go and the track work will be finished.
Then all that's left will be ballasting and securing the track, installing the power leads, Auto-reversers, and DCC switch drives.

Here are some pics;


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm surprised you did not maximize the length of your yard, and add about 10 more feet to it by moving the crossover further away. 

How long is your shortest yard track? 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I can see two long parking sidings for visitors in the space not used yet.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, although I prefer to have a real siding vs. a spur (which is what I think you are saying)... at RJ's I learned how nice it was to have a 40 foot passing siding! Mine are only 30 and 34 feet. 

You can always "commandeer" a passing siding for a makup track, or storage track... 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm going to guess aprox 20' on shortest yard track, if fence panels are 8' long... 

John


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, John 
I'll match you, 
and say 16ft shortest siding based on switch sizes and each square of concrete is 4ft each.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

HA! Your guess is as good as mine! 

John


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06 May 2013 07:48 AM 
I'm surprised you did not maximize the length of your yard, and add about 10 more feet to it by moving the crossover further away. 

How long is your shortest yard track? 

Greg 

I was originally going to make it the length of the slab, and put the double cross over on the other slab at the end, but decided to change it up after giving it some thought. 
I wanted to keep all the switches of the yard on the same slab so it would remain the same from one end to the other.
I have read double crossovers are prone to issues if not level and both side to side and back to front.
I also wanted to have some extra footage of track from the end of the crossover to the end of the slab to allow for adjustments in case of heaving.

I have 4 sidings and a long reversing loop/storage siding.
The sidings are 34ft, 29ft, 26ft and the shortest is 24.5ft long (which can actually be 36.5ft if you park a train all the way around the outside of the yard, 
if you want you can also use the outer main line, 2nd track from fence, for a 38ft siding if you go around the outer track of the yard.), the reversing loop/storage siding is 108ft long.
I have a 3 siding rail yard in the basement, they are 34 ft long each, that act a storage for the active consists.

I also want to have some extra space for future projects, such as a Train station/terminal building, a round house, maybe a nice coaling facility or container yard.

I live in a populated area and don't see myself leaving my trains outside overnight any time soon.
I was going to use them mainly as a parking area, stop over, for active consists between Phase 1, and not yet built Phase 4 which will attach to the end of this current phase.

Ron


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Your layout is really getting more impressive Ron. You will be running trains soon. Are you going to have an open house this year? I just assembled those Train li switches I got from you, and they are really fantastic. Now all I got to do is get my HOA to approve a train storage building. If I ever get one, I will post a photo. Carry on. 

Paul


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

24 ft, John was closest, he won,,, 
A trip to Ron's Railroad...LOL. 
Ron, who lives close to you to play trains? hours? days?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By bottino on 06 May 2013 06:57 PM 
Your layout is really getting more impressive Ron. You will be running trains soon. Are you going to have an open house this year? I just assembled those Train li switches I got from you, and they are really fantastic. Now all I got to do is get my HOA to approve a train storage building. If I ever get one, I will post a photo. Carry on. 

Paul 


Hi Paul,Thanks, Phase one is active right now and I usually have some trains running around while I'm working on Phase 3, sort of a little motivational factor.
I hope to have everything running by the end of summer at the latest, and might have an open house in the fall when the other guys have them.

I'm glad you like the switches, they made a huge difference for me as well and most likely kept me in the hobby, 
it's and whole other world when everything just works out of the box without issues or mods.

I am looking forward to seeing some more pictures of your layout as well, just a shame you moved away.

Ron

Posted By NTCGRR on 06 May 2013 07:48 PM 
24 ft, John was closest, he won,,, 
A trip to Ron's Railroad...LOL. 
Ron, who lives close to you to play trains? hours? days?



LOL he gets a free cookie and a bottle of water when he comes over









Paul used to live pretty close to me, but he moved out west, there are several guys the live north of me in New Castle and Ken Donahoe in Wilmington.
I like to visit their layouts when they have open houses. 

Marty you can come over anytime, just bring that welder with you and we can build a train station









Ron


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ya Ron, Paul wanted to run his 4 wheelers in red dirt!! 

& he wanted to be closer to AZ, .... so he could come run obscenely long trains .....!!! 

....now Paul lives well North of me, with a growing contingent of modelers here in the southern part of the state. 

Greg, I distinguish sidings as either spur sidings, single ended, & passing sidings - being double ended.... 

Glad to see your moving forward more also Ron, looks great btw!!!!! 

Dirk - DMRR & DMS Ry.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dirk, is the difference between a spur siding and a single ended siding that the latter is parallel to the main line? 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

See I never could get that name siding stuff straight.???


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Greg, mmmmmm now!?? 

forgive my mind here, been up all night in the ER with a kidney stone, kind of distracting now just in pain and bored.................. 

I have never read or heard of any distinction regarding a tracks position to a mainline... 

could become an interesting topic of discussion.... 

Do you have any info to support this - where's Craig?, he will know and now He's done with school, 
..... ha - My wife went to graduation this weekend !!!! we're nearly done too!!! wheeew! FinnnnnnaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllY..over... 

searching - I found this definition .... http://modeltrains.about.com/od/glossary/g/spur.htm 

Dirk.....


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Marty - does a siding need to be straight or bent!?? 

''what is a bent siding?'' 

Dirk


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Dirk, Don't be surprised to see me coming up your drive one day. If trains are running, I will come. I can't go out the the Dynamite and Rio Verde any more. Dennis closes down for the summer. Where can I go. I am also making some contacts further north in Utah. They close down in the winter. I am open all the time, just early in the AM in the summer.
I hope you are recovered from the Kidney stone. My wife has had several. It's not pretty.

Ron,
I can't wait to see the trains running. I could show up in your driveway some day too. 

Paul


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Further reading leaves me with the thought that there is more confusion than clarity on the subject... 

So - 'we here' should reach a conclusion regarding a great definition and solve the problem for the entire community at large, ha,.. large scale!! 

We could try.... 

Dirk - DMRR


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Paul, ..well I could get You on the DRV&E Paul, but having been there a few weeks ago, well I'll just mention the track is not in great shape, worst I have seen it in 5 years I have run there..... 

I have not heard from Dennis for a while...??? 

Why I'm working on the smaller loop on My layout most of the time here!!!!!!!! 

And you'll notice I had My road access back into my place groomed this week!!! better to travel on now!! 

We'll stay in touch Buddy!! 

Stones come and go, this one is starting.... yuc!! THX, had worse ones, I re-numbered the pain levels, they now include a number 11 for pain distinction!!! Ouchhhhh, but that's been many years ago.... 

Dirk


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 08 May 2013 02:11 PM 
Dirk, is the difference between a spur siding and a single ended siding that the latter is parallel to the main line? 

Greg 
Greg,

Per Dirk's request: I'll add my two cents and information.
Per the GCOR (General Code of Operating Rules; in use by railroads west of the Mississippi, east of the Mississippi is a similar set of rules).

A siding is defined as:
"Siding
A track connected to that main track used for meeting and passing trains. Locations of sidings are shown on the timetable."

From this definition a siding is a track that is used to meet and pass trains. It does NOT say anything about having two turnouts, or one. It simple says "a track connected to the main track"
I would define the following terms this way:
Passing Siding: Siding used to pass trains on the main track
Siding: Single or double ended track connected to the main track that can be used for passing trains
Spur track: A track connected to the main track that allows access to a specific location (ie; industry)
Industry siding: A siding or spur track used to access a single industry
Other than main track: Any track not considered main track. Main track is defined as having some sort of control (edit: some sort of authority to occupy) (CTC, TWC, OCS, DTC (edit add: Restricted Limits, Yard Limits)
Edit: Two types of tracks exist: main track, and other than main track. Sidings can only be on main track.
On the subdivision I model, both double ended sidings and single ended sidings exist. 
http://www.fobnr.org/timetables/phase1/Pacific/tt/PACIFIC-01-030370.pdf

Craig


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks Craig!!!!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Anyhow back to the thread .....

I finished laying all the track and after a day of sunny 80' weather (much hotter on the concrete for sure), I know where I have to add expansion tracks







.

Here are some pics of the completed track work, for now ...

Aerial view of the current layout, for some perspective the fence line is 210ft long. 





Length wise view, total laid track outdoors is about 987 ft, with an additional indoor rail yard of 118 ft, for a total trackage on the BRR of about 1105 ft.





Phase 3 track work stats;
total length of track for this phase is 553 ft, the main line loop to phase 1 is 335 ft; a 108 ft forward reversing loop, and 4 sidings of 34 ft, 29 ft, 26 ft and 24.5 ft long,


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

That top photo shows that Ron has vision and a future. I can't wait for him to place a mountain in the center of the yard. OOOHHH his wife will kill him..LOL 
See the nice thing about MLS is that those who can make bigger railroads do so and make them for others to play trains on.
So please , if someone offers to invite folks over , take them up if you can.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 10 May 2013 05:16 PM 
That top photo shows that Ron has vision and a future. I can't wait for him to place a mountain in the center of the yard. OOOHHH his wife will kill him..LOL 
See the nice thing about MLS is that those who can make bigger railroads do so and make them for others to play trains on.
So please , if someone offers to invite folks over , take them up if you can.



I am planning Phase 4 which will attach to Phase 3 just to the right of the shed, it will be about 35'x120', I have to wait for the wife to get over phase 3 first though








I plan on having open houses in the spring and fall once I get things presentable.
I was also thinking of having my own little G-Scale event/show featuring our Train-Li equipment 
and rolling stock, as well as some other equipment, sort of like what you do but on a much much smaller scale









Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I did some testing this afternoon on the double crossover using 3 Aristo Craft heavyweights.
I also added another turnout at the end to create a double "S" just to be sure of the track work.
Everything worked perfectly I think it should be good to go now









Here is a picture of it and a short test video;


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like it works just fine.............. Very smooth...


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for showing the crossovers at speed. Very impressive how smooth the Train-Li switches are with your long cars.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

WOOOW, cool engine. 
Ron, really the test will be how well they work with the coupled car to the engine, that is where binding usually is hardest.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

and under tension also, and a longer train... 

Not giving you a hard time Ron, but since the Aristo passenger cars have truck mounted couplers, when they are being pulled, the tension of the train pulls or pushes the couplers. 

Also, clearly the angle of the trucks have to change with the curves. 

So, under pressure and tension there are additional forces applied to the trucks and of course the wheels. 

This is what helps cause derailments, where the wheels splits the switch, or climbs the guardrail, or misses the frog point. 

So, I'm not demeaning your video, but as Marty says, the real test is in the real situation. 

I've had a bit of experience with the Train-Li switches, they are nice, but they also have some issues... nothing seems to come from the manufacturer "perfect" as all of us long-timers know and accept. 

Run a 10 car train through the "s" at speed and run it 50 times without a derailment, then I will be impressed... 

Regards, Greg


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Morning Ron, and others!! 

After viewing your vid. of the free roaming cars I clearly see that I 'Strongly Recommend' moving your double crossover away from all yard switches by 24''-30''... 

You have created the proverbial short "S" curve always in discussion here, without a straight section between the two curves - in this case the curves of two facing point switches. 

Dirk


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

Totally Agreed. Bod isn't modeling NASCAR on rails so the consist should have slowed, traversed, then resumed speed. Or is the objective modeling high-speed rail with passenger cars ? Then have a cup of coffee in your right hand while sitting inside those pax cars. The coffee will land right between your thighs by the time the car resumes normal direction. Sometimes it will splash the co-passenger at the same spot.


Or, place a boiled egg on the roof of the car when traversing the 'S'. If it stays on, you've got prototypical speed control on these non-prototypical transitions. Great clip though ! Beautiful Train-Li/Thiel design capability.


http://www.europakorridoren.se/spargeometri.pdf 

Cheers,
Victor


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's a difference between the Train-Li(ne 45) switches and the Thiel switches. 

Perhaps Ron already identified which these are, I thought they were the Train-Line 45 R7's .... about a #5.5 frog. 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

All the switches in Phase 3 are Train-Li R7's as is the double crossover with a Theil 30' crossing.
All my heavyweights are body mounted with ball bearings so I am sure there won't be any issues, was just a quick high speed test to see how they would
handle a double "S" that you get when going that way through the reversing loop.

Our R7's work great I can run my USAT GG-1, pulling a string of USAT Streamliners, through a passing siding at full speed without a problem.

Once I have power on the new phase I'll post some video's of my GG-1 going through all the transitions.

Ron 

here is short clip of GG-1 going through my R7 parking siding at speed, (gives an idea of how smooth the R7's are)


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By VictorSpear on 11 May 2013 10:19 AM 
Totally Agreed. Bod isn't modeling NASCAR on rails so the consist should have slowed, traversed, then resumed speed. Or is the objective modeling high-speed rail with passenger cars ? Then have a cup of coffee in your right hand while sitting inside those pax cars. The coffee will land right between your thighs by the time the car resumes normal direction. Sometimes it will splash the co-passenger at the same spot.


Or, place a boiled egg on the roof of the car when traversing the 'S'. If it stays on, you've got prototypical speed control on these non-prototypical transitions. Great clip though ! Beautiful Train-Li/Thiel design capability.


http://www.europakorridoren.se/spargeometri.pdf 

Cheers,
Victor



To funny Vic.

I always test my track work at high speed and adjust it as needed until it works perfectly.
I figure that once it's able to handle trains at high speed I wont have any issues at all at normal speeds.
I also like to make sure that anything I have rolling stock wise can go anywhere on the layout, which is why the smallest switches
I use outside are the R7's.


When I run trains I don't want to have to babysit them, I have found that this method makes for trouble free operations.

Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

OH, I think that video is Photo shopped,,, My granddaughter loves your puppy in your sig.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Ron, so I did not know your Aristo was body mounted... Good! 

did you use the "stock" Kadee mounting "kit"? 

I run my trains at full speed also to find weak points, so if the train runs at 125 mph, it is dead reliable at a prototype 65. I've left a 45 car train running for hours, and went to home depot and left it unattended, and that is saying something on a train that is going up a 3.4% grade and down a 5.5% one. 

I did use several R7's at RJ's when I was on vacation, and they were MUCH better than his Aristo wide radius switches, but of course they are closer to a #6... I also like that at least part of the frog is metal, but they do still have overly wide flangeways, I know that this stuff has to run with LGB... 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 11 May 2013 06:20 PM 
OH, I think that video is Photo shopped,,, My granddaughter loves your puppy in your sig. 

LOL I get that a lot, people don't believe me when I tell them about the USAT GG1 going through the passing siding at full speed until I show them the video, or they see it themselves.I use the GG-1 as my main tester because it's such a beast, if it runs cleanly through my project, then Anything will







.

Her name is Angel, everything you see was only able to be built after she consented, sometimes it takes a lot of cookies to bribe her though.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11 May 2013 07:39 PM 
Thanks Ron, so I did not know your Aristo was body mounted... Good! 

did you use the "stock" Kadee mounting "kit"? 

I run my trains at full speed also to find weak points, so if the train runs at 125 mph, it is dead reliable at a prototype 65. I've left a 45 car train running for hours, and went to home depot and left it unattended, and that is saying something on a train that is going up a 3.4% grade and down a 5.5% one. 

I did use several R7's at RJ's when I was on vacation, and they were MUCH better than his Aristo wide radius switches, but of course they are closer to a #6... I also like that at least part of the frog is metal, but they do still have overly wide flangeways, I know that this stuff has to run with LGB... 

Greg 

I used the Kadee kit with the flex brackets on my string of B&O heavyweights but I didn't like the way they worked.
They allow for much tighter turning at the expense of the cars being coupled further apart.

On my string of PRR heavyweights (the ones in the video are from that set) I only used the kadee 881 mounting pads, and mounted Kadee 906's directly to them flush with the end of the car.
While I lose the ability to run on tight radius curves, which I don't have anyway, the cars couple much closer together and look a lot better.

Ron


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I think the speed at which you can traverse the switch is partially due to the solid base that they sit on .....JJ


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Well it can't hurt, that's for sure







.
Phase one though (the one in the video) is fully free floating.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Hey Rj you can see the switch covers I use for all my switches in the picture below.
Mine have been outdoors for over 2 year now with no issues at all.

I use the white 3/4x10"x12' PVC Boards from Lowes and cut them into 2ft sections per R7 switch, comes out to $10 per switch.
They are rot free, and heavy enough to not blow away, they will last forever.
Lowes PVC Switch Cover boards

I make the feet for them out of the 2"x2" PVC stock.
I cut each foot about 1" wide and place one at each corner, for longer covers like the 8' ones for the rail yard I add extra feet as needed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So you must have made these covers right around the time you converted from Aristo to Train-LI?


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Ron, why do you cover them. I left my Aristo stainless switches out for 7 years in Delaware. Does this now mean that I will have to cover my Train li ones here?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ron , I noticed your switch covers previously, thought they made great "Pet covers" - for when your pets are very energetic, and help you with your ballast relocation.... :~} 

Dirk


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By bottino on 15 May 2013 09:14 PM 
Ron, why do you cover them. I left my Aristo stainless switches out for 7 years in Delaware. Does this now mean that I will have to cover my Train li ones here? 
The reason for the covers is to protect the DCC Switch drives from the elements.
It stops UV damage and keeps them from getting full of water.
It also helps keep the switch itself free of debris, and cuts down on maintenance.

When I want to run trains I just remove the covers and I'm ready to go.

Ron


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I use the saucers from flower pots to cover mine. They stick up high enough to clear the LGB turnout lanterns and are impervious to the elements. These are from Michaels and they were mostly "seconds" with small chips selling for under $1 each.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have about 9 years on my Aristo switches, an occasional shot of Armorall (or equiv.) keeps the ties black, also the track. Also my EZ-Air pneumatic switch motors. 

What part of the Train-Li switch fills with water? My Aristo switches have no cavities that hold water that I am aware of. 

Not trying to bust you, but: 

If someone says they are having problems with a product
and you talk about how great a product is and you have NEVER had a problem
and then it is revealed that you (have) to take all kinds of precautions to protect them 
then maybe the plastic and construction is not as great as compared to other products that need no such protection.


I'm very happy you are being forthright, but I believe that covering the Train-Li switches and the Train-Li switch motors was not required by the manufacturer at time of sale. I know they are advertised and sold for outdoor use.

If this is now a requirement for them to last outside, it's news to many of us. 

I'm very familiar with both products, the switches and the DCC switch motors.

I have 28 switches outside, I'm not buying any product that REQUIRES me to cover them. 

Thanks, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

In addition to protecting the turnout motor and lantern from water or accidental BUMPING/STEPPING ON, they keeps ballast and debris out of the points, cut UV damage leading to cracked ties, keeps hard water deposits from forming on the rails/point where covered, and inhibits plant growth into the turnout by blocking the light.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not the point Todd.... I am fully aware of what a cover does to something outside. 

The point is something completely different.. the suitability of the product outdoors, especially in this case where RJ has problems and Ron has none on the same product. 

To reiterate: 

Dear Ron: 

I have about 9 years on my Aristo switches, an occasional shot of Armorall (or equiv.) keeps the ties black, also the track. Also my EZ-Air pneumatic switch motors. 

What part of the Train-Li switch fills with water? My Aristo switches have no cavities that hold water that I am aware of. 

Not trying to bust you, but: 

If someone says they are having problems with a product 
and you talk about how great a product is and you have NEVER had a problem 
and then it is revealed that you (have) to take all kinds of precautions to protect them 
then maybe the plastic and construction is not as great as compared to other products that need no such protection. 


I'm very happy you are being forthright, but I believe that covering the Train-Li switches and the Train-Li switch motors was not required by the manufacturer at time of sale. I know they are advertised and sold for outdoor use. 

If this is now a requirement for them to last outside, it's news to many of us. 

I'm very familiar with both products, the switches and the DCC switch motors. 

I have 28 switches outside, I'm not buying any product that REQUIRES me to cover them. 

Thanks, Greg


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

could it simply be just 'personal preference'....? 

Dirk


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I bought the Train-Li turnouts as they where advertised to be able to handle the out doors. Now it should have stated if only covered to protect them from the elements. So Ron has had good luck with them but now he has stated they are covered. kind of defeats the purpose of having them. Mine have never been covered have worked fairly well once Axel and I figure out some changes to be made. However now it appears that the casings also need to be UV protected. Lately have had a lot of issues with the inside mounting cover lugs denigrating. Also over a period of time the motor arms now will break due to the screw that had been installed on them..

Ron I guarantee if you operated you RR switch machines as much as I do you would also start to,see issue. The motor arms are not as robust as they should be and the motors like wise. 

Craig reading your post about siding it appears you contradict yourself. There really as you said there are no single ended siding they are known as spur tracks. This is true but now You say on your RR you say siding. As you mentioned siding are just what they are, a place to meet trains with turnouts on each end. Just trying to clear up a few things. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 16 May 2013 02:52 PM 
could it simply be just 'personal preference'....? 

** I don't understand, can we do that??**

Dirk


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 May 2013 11:53 AM 
I have about 9 years on my Aristo switches, an occasional shot of Armorall (or equiv.) keeps the ties black, also the track. Also my EZ-Air pneumatic switch motors. 

What part of the Train-Li switch fills with water? My Aristo switches have no cavities that hold water that I am aware of. 

Not trying to bust you, but: 

If someone says they are having problems with a product
and you talk about how great a product is and you have NEVER had a problem
and then it is revealed that you (have) to take all kinds of precautions to protect them 
then maybe the plastic and construction is not as great as compared to other products that need no such protection.


I'm very happy you are being forthright, but I believe that covering the Train-Li switches and the Train-Li switch motors was not required by the manufacturer at time of sale. I know they are advertised and sold for outdoor use.

If this is now a requirement for them to last outside, it's news to many of us. 

I'm very familiar with both products, the switches and the DCC switch motors.

I have 28 switches outside, I'm not buying any product that REQUIRES me to cover them. 

Thanks, Greg 

Easy there Greg no need to go all crazy.The switches and drives do not NEED to be covered to be used outside.
The switches do Not fill with water or anything like that. They work right out of the box, do not require mods and adjustments to get them to operate correctly,
and I have not had any problems at all since making the change.
I also have not had any problems with our Nickel Plated Brass track. 
It's been outside now for over 2 years, no wear issues with the plating, and no problems with the ties (no I don't cover the entire railroad







)


I cover mine to keep them free of dirt and debris and all the normal crap that you get when things are left outdoors, 
it also helps to keep the ballast in place and my dog does not like to walk on them







.
It is not necessary just how I prefer to do things to cut down on maintenance.
Just like it is also not necessary the build a concrete pad for my switch yard, or to make sure all my track is level and secured on a solid roadbed or concrete,
or to remove all the grass around my layout and lay down 60mill weed block and stone to keep from having to constantly cut and weed the area, 
I do it because it makes my life easier in the long run.
Just personnel preference nothing else.

I was just trying to give Rj a suggestion that could help him out, nothing more.
I didn't think it would turn into this and take my build thread in a totally other direction.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry Ron, I misread your post which I have quoted below. Good, it's not the switches that have a problem with water, it's the switch machines.

I heartily agree, RJ has had significant issues with them, and early ones had a lot of issues with moisture.

RJ was fundamental in a number of revisions to protect from moisture trashing the electronics, from the different coatings of the motors and electonics, to adding drainage holes, to pads under the circuit board and motor.

But now it seems that the units cannot take the elements, and not just the sunlight but being outdoors. I personally held 2 of his (he has at least 12) and the actual case has split in the corner, literally coming apart.

I also know that RJ has basically replaced every one of his units at least once. I will be looking to see if you have the same issues as he does when you take one of yours apart.

It's not meant to be a downer, but RJ is not the only person with such issues, so when you report 2 years with no problems at all, I would like to find out what "magic" is working here. I find it impossible to believe it is UV alone for more reasons, but I want to stop derailing this thread, and apologize. We could start a separate thread for that.

Regards, Greg

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 16 May 2013 10:25 AM 

Posted By bottino on 15 May 2013 09:14 PM 
Ron, why do you cover them. I left my Aristo stainless switches out for 7 years in Delaware. Does this now mean that I will have to cover my Train li ones here? 
The reason for the covers is to protect the DCC Switch drives from the elements.
It stops UV damage and keeps them from getting full of water.
It also helps keep the switch itself free of debris, and cuts down on maintenance.

When I want to run trains I just remove the covers and I'm ready to go.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

No Magic that I know of.
I did the same things to all my drives as RJ did, which btw is how the new generation of drives all come from the factory now.
I do lube them from time to time as part of general care, but other than the covers that's it.

I would appreciate it if you started a new thread and continue this discussion there, I will help with it however I can.

Thanks, Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

We now return to construction;

I started securing all the track this week.
I thought making all the concrete road bed was hard work until I spent last 
two days using a hammer drill and getting all the track straight







.

I dont know how Marty does it.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So are you using the "JJ method" to secure the track? Clearly you are drilling holes for screws or anchors. 

Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I glue mine with Liquid Nails heavy duty construction adhesive.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Now if you change your GRR much, don't glue it. But if your a retired guy who travels the country and has a LIFE, then glue it.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

The glue really is not hard to get loose if changes or repairs are needed. I just slip a putty knife under the ties and tap with a hammer. Easily pops the track loose.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a friend with track glued to concrete. Over time huge rail gaps have developed on some areas and kinks in the other. The ties have not moved, but the rail sure has. All LGB track. 

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Awesome work, Ron! 

As I recall, you're using Train-Li track, correct? Do you also use their switch machines, and if so, how are they holding up for you? 

Also, like Greg, I'm wondering if you're using the "JJ method"? If not, you might want to consider that, since the wire clips allow 1) lateral adjustments and 2) expansion. 

Looks great!! 

===>Cliffy


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have secured the track ties directly to the concrete with concrete screws every 4ft or so. Yes I use Train Li nickel plated brass 8' flex track, which is not screwed to the ties, and Split Jaw 1" and 5/8" SS expansion tracks.
The free floating rail and expansion joints allow for the track to move freely and thus not kink or warp. 

So far I haven't seen any issues, I also use this setup on Phase 1 and although its free floating I still notice the track expansion joints get larger and smaller depending on the temps, 
and have not had any problems in two years.

Yes I also use the Train Li DCC switch drives on all my switches, and Me Personally have not had any problems so far, 
save one broken servo arm caused by a bug building its nest inside the drive.
I do keep the drives covered when not in use, and perform routine maintenance and lubricate the throw area with graphite from time to time.

Ron


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Oh, you're using expansion tracks... I'm not real familiar with those, but now I get it. 
I've only been using the TL manual machines thus far, and after a year outdoors they're binding up a bit. So thanks for the feedback. 
How are you controlling your DCC switch machines, if you don't mind an off-topic question? 

===>Cliffy


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Cliffy, 
Ron has very long tangents (straightaways) and when he encounters expansion his track can only grow in 2 directions. Your layout has many more curves which allow lateral movement. Think of an arc across a ballon as you blow the whole circumferance grows. Ron doesn't want or need bulges, so he needs the expansion doohickeys, oops I got technickle ... heatstroke ... yeah that's it. 

John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Roger that, TW. So is he controlling his switch machines with a handheld remote, a 'puter, or...?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The DCC switch machines are "accessory" decoders, controlled by the same throttle that controls the trains. The switch machines have addresses just like locos. 

I have quite a bit of experience with these particular ones. 

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04 Jun 2013 07:26 PM 
The DCC switch machines are "accessory" decoders, controlled by the same throttle that controls the trains. The switch machines have addresses just like locos. 

I have quite a bit of experience with these particular ones. 

Greg 
I have a few questions 


1. Is there one board for each switch or does one board control several swtiches?




2. So you have to run wires to each switch motor? 


3 The control boards are not that far from the switch motor?

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The entire unit is self contained, decoder, servo and mechanicals, only controls one switch 

The unit has 2 wires, connect to the rails. 

The control board is 1/16" from the motor


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That looks like the Train Li units I bought. Haven't installed any yet, but the time's a-coming. 
I understand how to wire/program them, but I don't have a "feel" for operating them, hence my question. 
I guess you have to memorize switch numbers, to punch them in to your hand-held? 
If so, do you make numbered markers beside the switches, in case you forget? 

====>Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, I put a label on each unit to indicate the address... DCC allows 999 addresses for accessory decoders. 

I usually remember the switch numbers. 

Greg 

(notice the bottom of the case is warped?)


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Please note that the picture above was the first batch shipped and now all the train-li drives have a coating on both the servo and circuit board for protection in case of water getting in the drive. 
These drives can have an indicator light installed, and direction and speed are programmable. A micro switch (SPDT from train-li) can be added for a remote display.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, I have the blue coated ones too. 

The opaque blue coating is better, and it is on top of the clear silicon you see in the picture above. 

This is indeed an older one... thus proving I've been involved with these units early on. 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I made a lot of progress this past week off.
I finished securing all the track to the concrete and well as installing all the expansion tracks.

All that was left to do was modify all 16 Train-Li DCC switch drives and install them, build up and install the 2 PSX-AR auto-reversers 
(they are Awesome btw Greg, that's a ton for the heads up on these) and lastly run and hook up all the feeder lines.

I decided to use 4 feeder lines for the entire 553' of track, I placed one at each end of the rail yard on the outer line,
and one at each end of the inner line. I used 12 gauge external low voltage lamp wiring for all the feeders.

I did some initial testing a found out that I needed to extend the isolated length of track in the reversing loops to eliminate the
possibility of spanning the zone and causing a short circuit. Originally this did not pose a problem when I was running the Aristo E-8 and the Heavyweight cars.
But it did short out using a long string of the USA Trains Streamliners. I think it was because the USAT Cars are all metal with metal couplers which conducted the
current when the cars had bridged the isolated section at both ends.

I corrected the problem by lengthening each section to that the longest streamliner consist fits in between the isolated section and the PSX-ARs worked perfectly.

Here are some pics of the modded Drives and them installed;







I then moved onto testing of Phase 3.
I ran the consist around the entire phase and found no issues with grade or concrete work.
I then ran the E8 forwards and backwards through the double crossover at speed many times without issue.
The next test was to check the operation of the PSX-AR auto reversers, both of which worked perfectly!
Lastly was the operation testing of the rail yard and reversing loops, again everything was perfect.

Here is a short video of the testing (and no it's not edited Marty,







)


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## Ted Nordin (Feb 27, 2008)

Impressive, especially given the speed in both directions. Proof that prep time is well spent Ted


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Just 2 quick questions that I'm sure is answered earlier in the thread. What is the center-to-center measurement of the parallel tracks into the double cross-over? And did you have to modify the switches or crossover to make things fit? Thiel (spelling) crossover if I recall correctly.
I'm looking to do something similar on my layout.
Thanks
Alan W.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Looking great Ron. 

I'm a few months behind you, but on a much smaller scale, so I really appreciate all your posts. 

BTW, I don't know if you have deer or whatever, but maybe something I did has some application for you. A switch machine I installed last year was hanging over the concrete roadbed, and I procrastinated on making its support. 
The machine got stepped on... I'm blaming deer... Anyway, it and a switch tie were broken. 

So I put in the supports a couple weekends ago. They were just gray concrete bricks, cut in half, and glued to the roadbed side with concrete construction adhesive. The trick was to have the switch laid first, because that's the only way I had to determine proper position of the machine. 

====>Cliffy


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I made some final modifications to Phase three this week after some extensive testing with 4 long trains running at the same time.
I found that the auto-reverser in the crossover was shorting out when I had a train going through the upper block and the lower block of the crossover at the same time, 
and both trains crossing into the next zone. 

I had to move the block back to just the lower track to eliminate the double short with two trains running through the crossover zone.
While this fixed that issue it caused another. There was not enough space to prevent trains from spanning the blocks when going through the 
the crossover from the upper track heading towards Phase 1 and into the rail yard. 
That left two options;
1) extend the crossover block halfway into the rail yard which would be a total pain in the butt.
2) Move the crossover.

I chose the second option and moved the crossover to the right of the yard pad about 20 feet.
This would allow trains in excess of 30' long to traverse the crossover, heading into the rail yard towards Phase 1, and still not span the block.
It also allowed for multiple trains to run through the phase without the possibility of causing a short.
(No I won't be extending the rail yard as this would just put me back into the same situation I had before with long trains.)

I tested it using multiple long trains in every way possible and no longer had any problems.

Phase Three track work is now complete and ready for operation. 
I am very happy with the results and it will be a great transition area into Phase Four.
I will post some videos of operations once the weather clears up.

Here are the pics of the reworked section.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

So clean! Beautiful!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you don't have anything going in the left foreground, I'd make the reversing loop longer and put the switch near the end of the concrete. A longer holding track if needed and it never hurts to increase the lengths of the reversing loop.

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I Haven't decided what to do with it yet, am mulling over a couple of possibilities.

One thought was some kind of terminal building, also covering the rail yard, 
the other was a couple of long parking sidings and a coaling station or something like that.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep you could still do that and increase your reversing loop length too. 

That empty place is begging for track! 

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Ron, 
I noticed your indicators on the switch machines. Those were your add-on's correct? And if so, would you mind telling me what product you used, and how you wired them in? 
Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Train-Li sells them for their switch motors... they are on the site. 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By NTCGRR on 16 Jul 2013 06:52 PM 
Very nice. 

Marty had a double post with this one so I deleted one of them 


JJ


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished up all the final track adjustments of Phase 3 the last two weeks. I had to shim several areas on the layout and secure the track more around the shed to better handle track expansion.


The next step was to test it all out so I brought out the USAT GG-1 consist, as well as the new USAT Bi-level Auto Carriers 
and put everything to the ultimate tests. The GG-1 is notorious for finding any defects in track work and switches. 
I also used the Auto racks because they are the longest rolling stock I have, and if they can traverse the different areas of Phase 3,
then anything I have will as well.

I tested all the areas of Phase 3 at speed and had zero issues. I was very happy how the Autoracks handled the 9.5ft reversing loop 
without incident. The Kadee mods I did really made a difference with those cars.

Ron

Here is a quick video of the testing.

(hmm for some reason I can't embed the video so here is the link)

Phase 3 Torture Test


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Once I was happy with the track work I moved onto the final ballasting of the track.
I used the same crushed stone as in Phase one I finished the rail yard and the loop around the shed.
It really makes a big difference on how the rail yard looks, and also helps to stabilize the track on the concrete.

The last thing to do is cover the remaining exposed concrete with more pea gravel and that will take care of Phase 3.
(for now,







)

Ron


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Beautiful, Ron! 
Are you adding any kind of binder to the ballast? Just curious.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks Cliff, 
I don't use any type of bonding agent. I use jagged washed #8 stone which clings together pretty well (its used to make the black top roads).
I ballast the track with the stone and work it into the ties, water it to help it settle, and then work it in some more.
Once I'm done with that I butt up the ballast with the decorative stone and that helps hold everything in place.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I completed Phase 3 today







.
I finished the rest of the ballasting and smoothed out the surrounding stones.

Phase 3 construction was my first attempt at concrete roadbeds and it went very smoothly.
I had never worked with concrete before and learned a lot while building the roadbeds.
It is very labor intensive but the results are well worth it. 

Now that Phase 3 is complete its time to start planning Phase 4








It's going to be about 120ft x 35ft and it will be much more decorative with an abundance of tunnels, bridges, trestles,
and elevation changes. I hope to have 3 or 4 independent lines as well as a main city area and possibly a mine.

Ron

Here are the pics of the now completed Phase 3; 











I really need to power wash the back of the shed,


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ron, I'm curious about how you attached the track to the concrete, or did you float it a bit above the concrete? 

The reason for asking is when I did not completely secure the track to concrete (board in this case) the ballast slowly worked it's way underneath and raised the track. 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good Ron, I should have made my roadbed wider as you did to keep weeds down. I to would like to know how you attached the track down?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I used the blue 3/16" x 1 1/4" flat head concrete screws and a stainless steel washer.
Originally I had them spaced about every 5 feet, but I doubled them up to about every 2.5 feet.
I did this to keep the 8' flex track straighter as it tended to "wiggle" a little with the expansion from the heat.
I do have expansion tracks on all the long straights to prevent buckling and the extra securing points make them work that much better.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Here are the final test runs of the double crossover, rail yard sidings, and reversing loop.
I used the longest cars I have, the USAT Autoracks, and the switch eating USAT GG-1 with a stream liner consist.
Everything worked really well.
Ron



Here is the vid, (unfortunately the embed feature is Still Not working, sorry.)

Phase 3 Torture tests


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron, 

A super clean layout - well done. 

-Ted


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron

Embed works fine as long as you manually edit the src=[/b] attribute (see arrow #1) and put the http:[/b] (see arrow #2) back in the URL address that YouTube decided to leave out of the code they now provide.


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

What is the black ballast you used and how are you keeping it from spreading out to the rest of the cement? I'm looking for some black too , but all I find in the San Antonio area is the Texas redish/orange stuff.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By mickey on 25 Aug 2013 10:03 PM 
What is the black ballast you used and how are you keeping it from spreading out to the rest of the cement? I'm looking for some black too , but all I find in the San Antonio area is the Texas redish/orange stuff. Mickey,

Did you see Ron's post of 23 Aug 2013 04:20 PM?

Cliff


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