# "Abuelo" Locomotive Bash



## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Hey guys!

Well, FINALLY, it came in. The Echo "Classic Rail" battery train set I had ordered came in last Wed. and now I can commence my complete and total rebuild of this beloved toy.

The goal of this project is to make a half way decent, believable looking locomotive. Unfortunately I was so eager to start the bashing process I neglected to take any "Before" photos of the locomotive. Sorry about that, but I do have some progress pics.












This is an overall view of what I've done thus far. After fiddling around with the body shell I figured out how to dismantle the thing... sort of. I discovered enough to know how to take apart the body shell, but I'm still trying to figure out how to the "guts" of the toy.

The smoke stack, headlight, and pilot are all scrap parts from an old MPC "General" locomotive kit. I modified the pilot to have an actual Link & pin coupler and coupler rod; which I scratched from some brass tubing. The pilot is not attached to the locomotive yet. I've elected to scratch a whole new pilot frame/deck and mount the pilot to.










The pilot itself still needs a little finishing up before I can call it "Finished". Of course the whole project has a long way to go!! My eventual plans include, but not limited to:

Full cab interior and crew, new piping, air pump, air tank, bell, running boards, larger steam dome, RC/Sound, smoke, new tender frame and wheels, link & pin couplers, flickering firebox/ashpan, as well of a number of other things that I can't think of off hand, but may list later.

I'm still fairly new to large scale modeling so I'll be asking a lot of questions and advice along the way. So feel free to comment, leave tips and tricks, or even make suggestions. All of which would be greatly appreciated.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Paint the whole thing black then it will look like a Bachmann. Ha! 
Enjoy it while it lasts... 

Andrew


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

What do you mean by that?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I don't want to spoil your fun but it is unlikely to last for a very long time. It will simply kick the bucket one day. 
If you really like the top bit though you could invest in a Bachman chassis with metal rods etc. for $50 from bachmann spare parts on sale at the moment. 

Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

It may indeed crap out sometime in the future, but the skills you learn bashing this will stay with you forever. I used these as bashing fodder to cut my bashing teeth on, they are cheap and far easier to cut up than a $200 locomotive. Back before KB Toys went under I would pick up a Scientific Toys set every Xmas and redo the cars for the layout and bash the first couple engines, but after that I just scrapped the engines out for parts, got a lot of material out of those sets. 

Personally I prefer the Scientific Toys version, it doesn't have the sound slates cast into the boiler so when its painted it looks much more realistic. 

And yes, you SHOULD paint these, if for anything to get rid of the semi-transparent sheen of the stock plastic.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Vic, it's not that I want to discourage anyone's passion but it would be a shame after doing a lot of customizing for it to carc it. 
Those Bachmann Annie chassis for $50 are a good investment so a transplant can be made later. Far better than trying to rebuild the internals to these things. 
I bought something very similar years back just for the bits. It had the same hot rod grills in the boiler and had a loud tick, tick, tick sound. One thing that impressed me with the thing I bought is that it had a motor driven bellows and real air whistles inside! I think it was a different brand though but very similar moldings. 

Andrew


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey garratt some of the Bachmann stuff does not last that long either, ask some of the owners of the early shays.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By pete on 25 May 2013 05:27 AM 
Hey garratt some of the Bachmann stuff does not last that long either, ask some of the owners of the early shays.


OK, nothing less than a pittman motor, new gearbox and wheels from Accucraft then. That may get rid of the tick, tick, tick. perhaps... 
You should see my Emily wheels. She is one very warped lady, but amazingly she doesn't walk with a waddle.

Andrew


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

This project is still in its infancy, relatively speaking. The "vents" I plan on filling in with putty before I move on to painting the locomotive.

I'm still trying to figure out how to disassemble the locomotive so I can get to the motor, gears, axles, ect... and hopefully get rid of said clicking sound. Though another thought I have been playing with is to scratch a whole new frame entirely! Add scale drivers, 24V motor, gears, ect... I have an adage I like to live by, if anything is worth doing do it with excellence or don't do it at all. 

This is a project that will be stretched out over a period of time. Right now I'm focusing more on the engine's aesthetics and details. Once that is done I'll start focusing on the loco's performance. I'm used to small scale and even with them I went the whole nine yards, so why not do the same to this locomotive? Or at least that's the question I ask myself.

Now onto the topic of paint. I'm still discerning a paint scheme for this engine and I'm working on a concept drawing of the completed locomotive, or how I hope it will turn out. Once it's done I'll post it along here in the thread.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Only nine yards? I would hope it goes further than that!









Andrew


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gunslinger87 on 25 May 2013 08:37 AM Though another thought I have been playing with is to scratch a whole new frame entirely! Add scale drivers, 24V motor, gears, ect... I have an adage I like to live by, if anything is worth doing do it with excellence or don't do it at all. 


Well...thats an interesting idea, and nothing wrong with it if you are really into the idea..
but being new to the hobby, im just wondering if perhaps you arent yet aware that you have *much* better options for such a project! 

IMO, if you are interested in scratch building or kitbashing with new drivers, motor, frame, etc..you really shouldn't use this locomotive at all..
it would be sort of like putting expensive mag wheels, a fancy paint job, and a V8 engine into a Yugo..
the platform isn't worthy of the project! 

I would start with a Bachmann Big Hauler..one of the best and least expensive "kitbashing platforms" in the Hobby!
they can be found new for $225..(and used for much less) (there are several different "generations")

and Bachmann is currently selling a running Big Hauler chassis for $50 on their webpage!
an excellent deal.. 

Even the new Bachmann "Lil Hauler" loco would make a nice starting platform..
those are new for about $70.
There are a lot of options that arent very expensive..and are much better quality than the loco you are working with.

I suppose you could put the boiler of this loco on the Big Hauler chassis..
that might make an interesting project..
but still, you are working with a $10 locomotive..with about $10 worth of quality! 
nothing wrong with that really..just be aware that its probably not worth spending much money to soup-up this particular locomotive..
the expression "you cant make a silk purse from a sows ear" comes to mind! 

Its a fine loco to paint-up and add some detailing to, if you like..nothing wrong with that at all!
but for more "advanced" projects, you can do much better, for not a lot of money, and end up with
a much more satisfying end result IMO...just don't want you to be disappointed!

thanks,
Scot


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to large scale railroading you've created a great looking model, and it looks like your having a fun, and that's what what it all about.... 
Make sure and check out my webpage at *4largescale.com* and enjoy seeing what many other like minded large scale bashers have done, *most of all keep having fun....*


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Posted By Scottychaos on 25 May 2013 10:02 AM 
Posted By Gunslinger87 on 25 May 2013 08:37 AM Though another thought I have been playing with is to scratch a whole new frame entirely! Add scale drivers, 24V motor, gears, ect... I have an adage I like to live by, if anything is worth doing do it with excellence or don't do it at all. 


Well...thats an interesting idea, and nothing wrong with it if you are really into the idea..
but being new to the hobby, im just wondering if perhaps you arent yet aware that you have *much* better options for such a project! 

IMO, if you are interested in scratch building or kitbashing with new drivers, motor, frame, etc..you really shouldn't use this locomotive at all..
it would be sort of like putting expensive mag wheels, a fancy paint job, and a V8 engine into a Yugo..
the platform isn't worthy of the project! 

I would start with a Bachmann Big Hauler..one of the best and least expensive "kitbashing platforms" in the Hobby!
they can be found new for $225..(and used for much less) (there are several different "generations")

and Bachmann is currently selling a running Big Hauler chassis for $50 on their webpage!
an excellent deal.. 

Even the new Bachmann "Lil Hauler" loco would make a nice starting platform..
those are new for about $70.
There are a lot of options that arent very expensive..and are much better quality than the loco you are working with.

I suppose you could put the boiler of this loco on the Big Hauler chassis..
that might make an interesting project..
but still, you are working with a $10 locomotive..with about $10 worth of quality! 
nothing wrong with that really..just be aware that its probably not worth spending much money to soup-up this particular locomotive..
the expression "you cant make a silk purse from a sows ear" comes to mind! 

Its a fine loco to paint-up and add some detailing to, if you like..nothing wrong with that at all!
but for more "advanced" projects, you can do much better, for not a lot of money, and end up with
a much more satisfying end result IMO...just don't want you to be disappointed!

thanks,
Scot
Ok, I've tried to hold my tongue, but I feel something need be said. I joined only a few days ago and the first responses to this project have been rather pessimistic. One does not need to shell out 200 or more dollars on a locomotive or chassis alone to have a good bashing project. To say that this isn't even "worthy" I honestly find offensive and discouraging . Posters to this thread say that you wish to not disappoint or discourage me but you are achieving that quite well. 

When I mentioned scratching a new frame the only thing original would be the body shell. Again, it may be cheap, but I am lead to wonder if some of you modelers underestimate what can be achieved with an "El Cheapo" toy train. Forgive me for actually having a creative freelance vision for a kitbash. Granted not all of you viewers and posters are like this, but I am now reconsidering my membership to this forum.


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Posted By Dean Whipple on 25 May 2013 10:35 AM 
Welcome to large scale railroading you've created a great looking model, and it looks like your having a fun, and that's what what it all about.... 
Make sure and check out my webpage at *4largescale.com* and enjoy seeing what many other like minded large scale bashers have done, *most of all keep having fun....*

Thank you, sir. I will be more than happy to oblige your offer.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Click, click, click!


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Posted By Garratt on 25 May 2013 08:47 PM 
Click, click, click!








I don't understand why you are trying to sway me from my endevour, but look what was done with a New Bright toy train and caboose.

http://4largescale.com/chris/c63.htm


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I haven't tried to sway you. I just gave you a source to a chassis that will make your project more worthwhile in the long run which you have also indicated to be your intentions. You have only had the truth put on the table by encouraging people that do know what they are talking about. 

Andrew


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

No one is trying to sway you, or discourage you.. 
people are simply trying to educate you.. 

going back to the automobile analogy..if a new member joined a car restoration forum, 
and said "I have this cool idea for a project! I bought a junked 1974 Ford Pinto and im planning to do (all this complex and expensive stuff) to it".. 
you wouldn't be surprised if people generally thought it was a bad idea! 
and "discouraged" the poster from going forward..and gave him suggestions for something better to use than the Pinto.. 
and telling the person all of that would be doing them a favor.. 
of course, the person can then go on and do whatever they like with the Pinto..but at least they were warned.. 
they simply might not have been aware..no one is born knowing everything about a hobby..mistakes can be made.. 
thats actually a primary reason why these kinds of hobby forums exist..education.. 

thats all this thread is.. 
it has nothing to do with money..some things are simply not very good ideas.. 
(or *in the opinion* of many, its not a good idea..it might still be a fine idea to some! that's fine..) 
but if lots of people think something isnt a good idea, there is nothing wrong with them saying so.. 
if I was hatching a potentially bad idea, I wouldn't be offended to to told about it.. 
now that you know, you are still free to do whatever you like!  
people are only trying to help... 

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I actualyl had this happen to me!  
here on MLS..about 10 years ago now! 

I started a complex project..converting two Bachmann Big haulers into a 2-6-6-2 articulated.. 
a few people tried to gently warn me that the big-hauler might not be the best base material 
for the final locomotive I was envisioning.. 
I listened, but forged ahead anyway..spent a few years on the project! on and off.. 

Today the two Big Haulers remain in pieces in a box..the project abandoned, uncompleted.. 
they wont become a 2-6-6-2..because the people who said it might not work..were right! 
it was a bad idea..it just took me awhile to figure out for myself what they already knew.. 

Scot


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I still say go for it. Even if it only lasts a couple years the skills learned will stay with you. Also the Scientific engines I bashed I alway kept the bits and details and used them on other bashes so have at it.Sure you will add other engines and stuff down the line but you always remember that first big bash. Successful or not it is a great opportunity to learn a few tricks. BTW I currently have *none* of my first engines,they have all been recycled into later projects.


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Posted By vsmith on 26 May 2013 12:24 AM 
I still say go for it. Even if it only lasts a couple years the skills learned will stay with you. Also the Scientific engines I bashed I alway kept the bits and details and used them on other bashes so have at it.Sure you will add other engines and stuff down the line but you always remember that first big bash. Successful or not it is a great opportunity to learn a few tricks. BTW I currently have *none* of my first engines,they have all been recycled into later projects. 
Thank you, and I shall!

Right now the goal is to get the body shell to resemble a legitimatet, believable locomotive. Whereas later down the line I would like to transplant the body shell to a more reliable chassis, whether I build it myself or not. "Abuelo" will continue to evolve into something greater as time progresses. This is a project I'm not in a hurry to built. I want to take my time to really bring out the potential that I see in it that others don't seem to see. It's a shame that as many of us grow older we loose that child like imagination, which is so rich and resourceful. I like challenges and given the position that this project has I look forward to showing what can be done with "$20 investment".


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I too look forward to see what you make of this cheap toy, much more than hearing a lecture about our less than equal excitement. 

As it was never a 'beloved toy' by me I don't share your .... joy, I see the reality of the futility trying to make a toy into a model. 
My guess it that in the end there won't be anything original left.... 

We hear these 'big plans' all the time, but the posters tend to fade away before fruition, I dare you to be different. 
Please don't write essays about what your gonna do, please show us pictures of what you've done. Big, big difference. 

Best of luck 

John


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I'm with Vic on this one. You may finish the project and have a beautiful, reliable engine for years. You may finish it and watch it fail catastrophically the next day. You may never finish it. But no matter what happens, you will get some excellent experience working on and kitbashing or scratchbuilding large scale models. If you can turn this one into a silk purse, you'll feel much more confident hacking up a $500 locomotive in the future. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with this one.


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Thanks, and I'll will post as many progress pictures as I can. 

Right now I'm working on scratching a new pilot beam out of wood. Any suggestions on how to do so and how to mount the pilot to the pilot beam?


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Check the Coke Master Class. It should give you some ideas on the pilot and the beam. 

Chuck


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Posted By chuckger on 28 May 2013 06:44 PM 
Check the Coke Master Class. It should give you some ideas on the pilot and the beam. 

Chuck 
Ok, do you have a link to the article?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

AJ

You can find a great deal of information on scratch-building and bashing various locomotives in the following topic.









MarterClass & Articles Forum/Topic: MasterClasses and Articles Index and Downloads[/b]


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Ok, sorry I don't have a photo, but I have been working on the pilot beam. Unfortunately I may have to make a new one because I think it isn't wide enough. Partly due to when I was rounding the edges with a sander. The adhesive holding the sanding belt together gave out and caused me to 'dig' a little deeper than I wanted to. Not to mention gave a nice flat spot on one side. 

Again, sorry for no photos, but I'll keep you posted!


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

Hmm....I haven't ripped apart an Echo or a Scientific Toys engine, but I have torn into my New Bright Battery operated 2-6-2. The little bugger also makes the clicking sound. For me, it turns out to be as simple as four prongs on the middle driver axle that strikes a small metal strip as the wheels turn. It could be the same thing, but I'm not sure.


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## Sampug394 (Dec 30, 2010)

Probably a higher likelihood that its the craptastic internals of these impish beasts making all kinds of foul noise. I've torn into my friend's ancient S.T./Echo 2-6-0 and seen what the insides are like... No grease can help the noise. I did however want to steal the extremely bright headlamp bulb for an engine of my own. Worked impressively in the dark. (As opposed to the smoke unit that spat out little puffs of decades-old neurotoxin. That's a story of its own.)

Going to second several people on here, you'd probably be better off with a more reliable chassis that actually, _you know_, works well and can operate at different speeds.  Even modern bachmann bug mauler chassis are fairly reliable if you don't run them into the ground. Have swapped out a dead chassis with a new one and brought my same friend's mauler right back to life...

However, all the power to you if you wish to keep chugging on with this one. Source a replacement S.T./Echo engine in case this one craps out. They're a dime a dozen on eBay.


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## Gunslinger87 (May 14, 2013)

Yeah, I've been doing a lot of pondering about that. Swapping out the original chassis for a new one. The main issue being finding one small enough. The engine is fairly small with 30" diameter drivers in Fn3. I think the closest thing that would work would be the Bachmann Indy 2-6-0 chassis.

I just don't have one to compare this engine to. It may be too long, but I'm not entirely sure. 

Of course there is the lack of funding to. If anything, I may try to remotor the original chassis and eventually set it up for RC/Battery Control. I've been bouncing between a lot of projects and in various scales, but I've made some external progress. I've made a paper mock up of the cab and I've been debating on replacing the stock, old time cab with a Bachmann "Bug Mauler", as Sampug quite amusingly put it! 
Or if I want to try scratching one from wood. I have some F scale plans of the Cooke mogul cab and I've thought about making a hybrid between the Cooke design and Bachmann cab in their dimensions. The Cooke cab is wider, but the B-mann cab is longer. And the longer length and large windows look pretty good, and the width of the cook cab would certainly help sell that "Narrow Gauge" feel.

In short, for now I'm focusing on the aesthetics of the engine, rather than the mechanics. But at some point I'll get around to them. Whether I use the stock Echo chassis or use Bachmann one. I'd like to get the engine in a more presentable appearance before I post another photo of it on this thread.


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