# newer than new pondering



## hawkfanjohn (Nov 17, 2009)

here I am in sunny Az in an Rv park thinking about starting a garden layout in Colorado Springs this spring. Only moved to Colorado from Iowa this summer so have no ideas of winter conditions there Questions that come to mind~ 

1. I've always been fasinated with logging and shays, so got too close last summer and ended up with a spectrum 55 ton shay~ just before I came here!

Do not have enough room here to set up any train so will have to content myself with just kinda looking during my time here~ except found some stuff on Craigslist interesting!

I can get some .250 track reasonably~ and would like to hear from anyone in colorado if this stuff is acceptable there or is frost heave too much there?

Also found a 2-8-0 consolidation that was batteried and RCSed by dave Goodson~ got it at a good price but I know it needs batteries~ was stored for a year by a guy that was going through a divorce. 

Can anyone on here recommend anyone close to Apache Junction, Az that would possibly take a newbie under his wing and teach me a few things I gotta know to get up and running in the hobby?

Went to Roys Train World and they informed me that G scale was dead! I know that's not right but that didn't get me any contacts. 

Also starting this thing with lofty ideas and little resourses so can't make too many mistakes~ and as I'm already retired I'm running out of time for extensive research before I plunge in!

Any more things I have to take into mind before my big plunge?


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

You've come to the right place!

"G scale is dead?" I've heard that rumor too, but there's lots of it 'round Chicago. I think your local hobby shop has a case of sour grapes.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Due to the economy, many hobby shops closed and in Garden scale many Mom and Pop shops closed due to retirement. 

Also, it is easier and cheaper with high taxes to order large scale on the Internet as shipping on a $400 engine is less than the local tax. 

I have talked to some shops and they claim Large scale is too big for their shelves and smaller scales can have more on display, thus more profit. 

Be sure to get a Garden railways subscription to find most of what is available and where to get it, also take a close look at the sponsors of this forum!!!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 26 Dec 2009 07:53 AM 
it is easier and cheaper with high taxes to order large scale on the Internet as shipping on a $400 engine is less than the local tax. 


Bad advice! Check your tax laws! 99% of the time local and state sales tax* is* still due... You're just supposed to voluntarily download, then fill in the 'use tax' form and send it in with a check..... Almost no one actually does, but you're still legally obligated to..... and many states are trying very hard to close that little loophole.

NY, NJ and Connecticut have some sort of reciprocal agreement to collect each other's taxes. Ohio insists any out of state vendors with an Ohio tax license needs to collect and remit all the taxes due them. Cali reaches out and touches out of state vendors at random with dunning notices... etc. All the paperwork is a nightmare with places like NY nailing you with a $50 fee if you file even 1 day late, so the vendors are resisting collecting foreign tax due.... The next step will probably be to hit either the CC companies or the shippers with mandates to collect the taxes. 



The tax rates that led to the Boston Tea Party were much lower than ANY of today's... and we just keep re-electing the bozos. (Note: the above statement is not intended to be political, rather is a non partisan reflection on an intellectually lazy electorate (populace) in general)


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Go out to the Adobe Mountain Railroad park. This is a huge railroad park operated by at least three clubs, one is a G scale club. Go on a weekend, and you will find lots of help. Get in touch with the AXBTO club. www.azbigtrains.org. This is a totally G scale club, and there is lots of expertise and help to be found there. I have had great interactions with them during my winter visits to Mesa. This is the real outdoor railroad season in Arizona. Also, in Scottsdale there is the Stillman/McCormack Railroad park. No gscale, but a must visit on the weekend for anyone who likes trains. The Scotsdale live steamers will give you a ride on their railroad. Oh and stay away from anyone who says G scale is dead. 
Paul


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been to Roy's Train World and the reason they think G scale is dead is the prices they charge for stuff!

If I had to pay what they charge I would quickly loose interest also. They seem to charge close to the MSRP for engines and cars.

John


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## neals645 (Apr 7, 2008)

As part of NGRC 2008 in Phoenix, there were at least 3-4 excellent layouts in the Apache Junction area. You can probably contact them and arrange a visit thru the local large scale club mentioned above. 

Neal


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

It amazes me when I go to a train show and hear dealers complaining how no one is buying anything. Yet other dealers are selling lots of stuff. Look at their prices. it's not hard to see why. Yea, just like the sucker pricing you find on Ebay, their might be some who buy the first thing they see without checking pricing of other dealers, but the majority of hobbyist look for reasonably priced stuff. I think the problem with these dealers crying G is dead is because the lack of LGB stuff twindled to about nothing and they were used to selling it at list. Just look at the LGB stuff on Ebay. It's all priced well over all the other brands and while there are those that think it's supperior because it was made in Germany, the fact is a lot of the stuff is no better quality than what you can get from Aristo Craft and USAT. Of course the LGB purist won't ever agree with that statement but it's my opinion.


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Some of the comments here were the subjects of some conversations I just had. An acquaintance noted that model rr'ing is becoming a very expensive hobby. Perusing ebay I've found that the smaller scales have really escalated in price to the point that its often as expensive if not more expensive buying things there in HO as it is in "G". Even new stuff showing at the LHS is becoming expensive. One owner told me he actually makes more profit from the used stuff he sells. 
I don't know the hobby shop mentioned in the thread but I've often found that shops tend to get myopic for a number of reasons. The good ones will say "No we don't carry that but if you go to ...... they carry that scale, or gauge or hobby genre". The owners or employees who become too self absorbed make kind of dumb blanket statements about stuff they don't carry like "That's junk" or case in point "G scale is dead". Unfortunately these types do a disservice to the hobby in general and hurt themselves by discouraging novices. 
While MIK brings up some interesting tax issues, I've yet to find an online vendor out of state who has made me pay taxes. NY state vendors often do because I'm in NY but others haven't. I've discussed this issue with a friend who owns a local hobby shop and he keeps saying "They're going to tax internet sales" and I keep replying "How are they going to enforce it?". I feel bad for brick and mortar shops as they definitely are getting beat up by online competition so I try to support them with purchases when I can. 
Hawkfanjohn, I hope you can expand your hobby endeavors. This and other forums have a lot of good modelers with a broad knowledge base so enjoy the camaraderie. 
Dave


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, If you like, I'll dig out the notices I got from Ohio and NY directing me to collect their bloody tax (right about the same time I mailed back their danged vendor numbers with a huge 'cancel' written across it). The bill for $700 and change from Cali might take a bit longer, as I think I circular filed it.

Unless you've spent a few years on the other side of the counter, there's lots of stuff you haven't heard about. As for whether a vendor has charged you or not... some ignore the law, some just eat the tax.... rather than lose the sale.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

LHS's Can't compete with the internet and the pricing there!! You just have to be an informed buyer, and hope that after you do make a decision to buy something that you don't find it way less somewhere else. Ask questions, do your research, and then make an informative decision based on what you have researched. Even experience sometimes comes around and bites you in the bee hind sometimes!! Regal


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

It's also harder to stock the larger trains. For example, on a section of shelf, a hobby shop can display a hundred HO freight cars in different styles and road names. In G scale, that shelf displays 2.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Roy's Train World has several G scale engines on the shelf the last time I was there. They looked like they had been there a long time. The reason is simple: They are at least double what you can get them online for. That is why they are saying G scale is dead.

John


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## Robbie Hanson (Jan 4, 2008)

The shop here says G scale is dead. 

They have several LGB F7s--a bargain at $1500 apiece, and a STEAL at $3000 for an A-B set!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Since G is dead, please send me all the corpses for proper disposal, thanks!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

and would like to hear from anyone in colorado if this stuff is acceptable there or is frost heave too much there? 

Absolutely no problem with this stuff in Colorado. I've had it down since 2005. I don't float mine, but there's no reason floating it wouldn't work. (I've got small kids who would otherwise pull up floating track.) 









*Click here* for other photos I took this summer of the line. When you get to the Springs, drop me a note. I'm just an hour or so north. 

Later, 

K


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Welcome to AZ and MLS

I live in New River on the North West side of Phoenix on the way to Flag Staff. AZbto is the place to go. Those guys will help you a lot. the Adobe Mointian Rail Road park is at 43 AVE and Pinical Peak 

Take I 17 to Pinical Peak and go West to 43 AVE. Turn left on 43 ave and everything on your right is the park. The entrance is about two blocks down.

Sadly most of the Brick and Motar shops are very pricy here in AZ. and they do not carry a large invatory. I do most of my buying On line or On E bay. I look for used rolling stoc 

95 % of my rolling stock is used.

Another one to cotact is Dan Hoag of EAGLE WINGS IRON CRAFT. He is a great guy to talk to. He holds a open house every spring. He knows just about every Layout in AZ. He also is very active in AZBTO.

E Mail me if you have any Questons.


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