# Lionel vs MRC Transformers



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi, all! I'm looking to purchase a new power supply for my trains that will not cost me an arm and a leg. I'm considering the Lionel CW-80 80 watt transformer. It is simple, and I found several at a price range that I can easily afford as I have a large credit on Ebay that I'll receive on July 3rd. Here is the link to the Lionel website: CW-80 80-Watt Transformer
I'm also considering an MRC 1310 9900 throttlepack unit. It also claims 80VA,and has momentum, and brake controls, but will run a lot more money,since it is not on Ebay and I will not be able to use my credit to purchase it. This link will take you to the MRC website: 0001310 THROTTLEPACK 9900 POWER PACK
I'm buying a new transformer primarily for my Piko and LGB Mogul locomotives. I did talk to Jonathan at Piko,and he wasn't to sanguine about MRC power supplies.
Your thoughts on this transformer will be greatly appreciated , gentlemen!
Thank you!
Andrew


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Andrew;

Just note that Lionel transformers are just that - AC power output only. You will require another device to convert the output to DC current, suitable for running large scale trains.

I originally used my 1955 American Flyer dual throttle transformer, with Friko Converter electronic DC converters, to run my large LGB locomotives. So, I am NOT knocking transformers, just remember the additional step.

Regards,
David Meashey


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## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Then I'm back to the MRC.My Lionel #4060 transformers have both AC and DC terminals on them. Probably because they both came in Large Scale train sets. I can get the MRC for $148.00 with free shipping on a train stores' website. It's a great price, but , unfortunately, I will not be able to use my Ebay credit.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Just remember the 80 watts in HO will get 5.5 amps. In large scale divide the 80 watts by the voltage (21 volts perhaps) and you get less than 4 amps when running a fast loco. Also in the past, MRC used pulsed power output which confuses some sound and DCC units unless you added the linear converter.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

The MRC power packs mention only put out 18 VDC.
I think that is really on the low side for G-Scale; Dan mentions 21 volts in the post above which is much more reasonable.
I tend to go for 24 volt supplies even if most small G-scale locos run too fast at that voltage.
But I can always turn the voltage down to reduce the speed - if the power pack only puts out 18 volts and at that voltage the loco is too slow, there is nothing I can do easily to fix that.


But if you think you're fine with an 18 volt supply - there are older versions of the MRC power pack on ebay at $45 to $60.-
They don't have momentum, maybe only 60 VA instead of 80, but they might do what you need and you can use your ebay credits.
Or look for other sources of used G-Scale power supplies.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with 24 volts, but for my R1 indoor 18 is more than enough, outdoors I am 24 volts DCC on the track (30 volt supply to the command station), 24 volt input to my DC receivers. Steam runs slow, modern diesels get the full voltage at times.


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## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

I'm good with 18 volts. All of my locomotives run well at that voltage. Especially the HLW's, Kalamazoo, and the Lionels(I do love the simplicity of those locos!). The Bacnmann 4-6-0's all do well, as do the 2 Piko loco's, while the LGB Mogul is kind of slow, but that may well just be how that loco is made. 

I did find a couple of interesting transformer/power supplies on Ebay. The Bridgewerks is new, while the Aristocraft is used.Can anybody please tell me how an 10 amp power supply like the Aristocraft works, and what else that I would need to buy to make to compatible with my indoor layout? 

Thanks!
Andrew
UPDATE: I just talked to Jonathan at Piko. He highly recommended the Bridgewerks unit.His advise was to avoid the Aristocraft unit, even referring to it as junk. So, I've decided to buy the Bridgewerks.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Be very careful with Bridgewerks power supplies. There are identical output jacks on the rear and one is a solid 36 volts on some units. The other is the variable DC. 



Electronics in our trains do not like 38 volts instant magic smoke and expensive repair!!
I would block the 35 volt output to prevent this form occuring!!
How do I know this, it happened to a friend and he lost his LGB track cleaning loco with MTS. 

Also note that the speed control slider if pushed to the top will also output 35 volts on some units, and the power supply is not regulated.


How does one get 35 volts? a 24 volt transformer is really 25.2 volts and when rectified you get 25.2 times 1.414 which is 35.6


Why 25.2 ?? this is a multiple of 2.1 volts which is a lead acid battery. Cars originaly had 6.3 volt batteries hence 6.3 volt tubes in radios, then 12.6 came along and tubes were 12.6 volt filaments. 25.2 is double 12.6!!
Transformers were made to match the tube voltages in radios and tv's.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

RkyGriz said:


> UPDATE: I just talked to Jonathan at Piko. He highly recommended the Bridgewerks unit.His advise was to avoid the Aristocraft unit, even referring to it as junk. So, I've decided to buy the Bridgewerks.



I'm wondering why Jonathan would not recommend a Piko power pack.


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## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi,Knut. He did,but I wanted to get a power supply that puts out more than the 1.6 volts that their basic power supply does.
He actually agreed with my decision to get the Bridgewerks power supply,as it was priced between their basic power supply and this one:https://www.piko-america.com/collec...gital/products/analog-throttle-22v-5a-g-scale
which is more power than I actually need. 

There's also my currently limited budget to consider. I'm buying this on Ebay, and my Ebay Bucks credit will cover a nice portion of the cost.Which definitely helps!

The Bridgewerks Mini-Mag 3-S is perfect for my needs, and will supply enough DC power for my locomotives and track lighted cabooses, and passenger cars.
Piko does have a very nice 3 amp R/C analog power supply coming out in September: https://www.piko-america.com/collections/g-scale-power-digital/products/35028-r-c-analog-power-set
But I don't want to wait until then. In the interim, I have decided to go with the Bridgewerks power supply, as Jonathan said that it's very decent, and will provide my trains with the power they need.
It also does come with a built in manual speed governor that I can set to protect my trains from being overloaded.
So, I think that I'm good here. I can always resell it on Ebay if I decide that it want the new Piko R/C controller when it comes out,as I do like it.
We'll see.


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## Mark_s (Jun 24, 2013)

Dan

You are correct - the accessory power output on the bigger Bridgewerks power supplies is 36V with no load. The smaller supply, which is a closer comparison to the MRC controller would be the 'Morrison' which does not have the accessory power output.

If interested, I did a comparison between the MRC power G and the Bridgewerks Magnum 5 SR - drop me a line if you want a copy....

Mark
Bridgewerks


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

I always wondered if one could make a power pack using an automotive battery charger? Seems there used to be an Aristocraft one that sure looked like a battery charger.

Doug


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The Aristocraft 'Ultima" was a 21 volt no load and as the current use rose, the voltage dropped to about 16 volts. This was partly due to the use of a selenium rectifier. I changed mine to a full wave diode bridge when it failed. When it was first sold it was great as there were not many engines made nor wide radius track to need anything better. Times have sure changed and for the better for our trains.


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## mjll1958 (Jan 2, 2016)

*Power supply*

Look at the USA transformers. They have 10 amps and can be found on eBay.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Folks, remember that Lionel used transformers and these are AC power. We use DC power and these are Power supplies for a more correct term. you can not use Lionel 'transformers' for our DC requirements unless you add a diode bridge and filter capacitor.


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## mjll1958 (Jan 2, 2016)

*Tranformers*

I have both USA and MRC transformers. The MRC 9900 and 9950 can run multiple locos. The little green connections they use for the wires are problematic. If you add accessories they don’t provide ac power. I can use them electric switches to work properly. The USA units have tons of power and can run 3 or 4 locomotives and provide tons of ac power. All 3 transformers run around 200


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