# Sources of Butane



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

Hey guys,

We have just been buying the small butane canisters from walmart that are used for refilling lighters, and I was wondering where you guys get your butane from. I am also looking for some butane that will work in cold weather (I heard you needed a different type).



Thanks ,


Patrick


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Patrick
Try camping stores, Dicks,REI or a "Chinese" super market etc that would carry Coleman, Gaz, etc for gas supplies


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

It depends where you live what stores you have around you. Most use a mixture of butane and propane that you can find at Cabelas or Big 5 sport store or Cal ranch stores. Some find it at Asian markets.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm one of those that buys it at Asian Supermarkets. Cans the size of a a large can of spray paint cost just over a buck each.


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

Last Coleman gas I bought was at Walmart. My sports store seems to have stopped carrying it. 

Harvey C. 
SA1838


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

The lighter refill butane is 80% Butane and 20% Propane. Everything else, campstove fuel, Chinatown fuel is 70/30. I don't think there is a noticable difference in cold or warm weather. Chinatown fuel is the least expensive and works fine.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

I get mine from the Chinese(or Asian) food market. My brother gets his from the Dollar store. Some get it from Tobacco stores. The mix comes from the camping supplies at Academy or other sporting goods stores. Or you can pick up a case at Diamondhead in January.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Everything else, campstove fuel, Chinatown fuel is 70/30. 

Hmmm... guys - Patrick is new to this, so we gotta be careful about pure butane or butane/propane mixes. If for no other reason than the Accucraft gas tanks say, in large letter, BUTANE ONLY. (Now, where's the FAQ when you need it . . ) 

"Camping Gaz" is a mix, as the propane makes it work better a low temps (e.g. top of the mountain.) It produces higher pressures, hence the warning - Accu doesn't want you to split your gas tank. Despite the warning, many of us - myself included - have run our locos on camping gaz. Incidentally, you need an adaptor to use the cans to fill our ronson-type-valve gas tanks. 

Bob - I think the stuff used on asian gas stoves is 'pure' butane, not a mix (though it has oderant added and possbily other impurities.) I get mine from a Korean market in Philly, as mentioned above, it's a six pack and about $1 can. Works fine, but again, you need an adaptor. Royce at Quisenberry Station sells a neat one. 

Patrick - do a Google search using "site:mylargescale.com asian butane gas" and you'll get a half-dozen useful threads. [Almost as good as a FAQ system!]


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't know that the Chinese (or Korean) was a mix. I had a problem once where the fire wasn't burning and I was having so many issues, that I removed the filler valve and looked into the tank and saw water! It wasn't really water, it was just so cold that the butane wasn't boiling into a gas. (It was about 40~ degrees outside.) I now use the camping gas mix almost exclusively. I also have found the camping gas at Wallmart (the small cans).


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Good reference article:

Gas fuel live steam


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Used for other purposes I've found the Asian gas burns hotter. Oh it's stinky too. 

John


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Someone posted here recently on some gas tests he had done and he claimed all of them were actually mixes, NONE were straight butane.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

This is the temperature/pressure gas test I did last summer. My conclusion based on the test is that they all mixes. Most of them 70/30.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

Bob


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been buying mine at Walmart. It's a mixture 70/30 and reasonably priced for a can a little over 7oz. Works good and they will order it for you. I did this a couple of weeks ago and just bought a case. Later RJD


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## mack505 (Jan 2, 2008)

Since Patrick is new, we should probably mention that most of these cans require an adapter to be useful to us. Some of the Asian cans will fill some locos, depending on the location of the gas fill. In my experience, all of the 'camping' style cans require an adapter. 

And of course, the fitting and adapter types vary from brand to brand. Screw fitting, slip fitting, 'bayonet' style, I carry one of each in the bag.


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## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

Apparently any gaseous fuel used for cooking, heating, lanterns, etc. MUST contain a foul smelling odorant to detect leaks - usually a mercaptan, but many other possibilities. So they will burn to produce small amounts of sulfur dioxide, a weak acid. Butane marketed as lighter fuel refill only can skip the odorant simply because a leaking lighter doesn't contain that much fuel when full.

Second, some butane sources claim triple, quad distilled, etc. In practice most will simply use the refinery fraction that has the desired vapor pressure range at the lowest price. Further separation to produce higher purity simply adds cost for little value - you are going to burn it in a flame, not make a reference standard. So stuff sold as butane will be a mixture with small amounts of lighter and heavier hydrocarbons - a little propane, a little isobutane, and even a little pentane mixed with the butane. No refinery or gas well has separate taps marked - pure 100% butane, methane, etc. They start out as a mixture and are only separated enough to provide useful fractions. Some fractions are valuable if the separation cost is not too high, the rest stay mixed.

To be sold in commerce, each fuel must not develop enough pressure at normal temperatures to rupture the tank. A butane tank has much thinner walls than one for propane. Go to pentane and it is barely liquid at room temperatures. Go the other way to ethane or methane and you need strong, thick, heavy wall tanks. The practical question is how much safety margin is hopefully in your engine design? If you ONLY use the propane mix at cold temperatures it may not matter. But if you manage to fill your loco all the way full with ANY cold liquid fuel and let it then warm up with valves all closed then a tank rupture is a good possibility. Fuel expands as it warms. With zero head space you suddenly shift into hydrostatic test mode. So I always try to remember to press the filler valve briefly to provide some head space. It keeps the tank from rupturing and prevents liquid fuel from going into the jet where it flashes to vapor while leaving behind all the grease, oil, etc. it happily dissolved from your tank, valve, etc. Instant plugged jet.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

There are frequent discussions about fuel, cannisters and adapters. I'd like to remind everyone that back in the November/December issue of Steam in the Garden (Number 102), I tried to reduce confusion with my article titled _"The Great Fuel Container Adapter Mystery."_ 

In the article, I discuss types of fuel, the variations in cannisters, the myriad of adapters, and sources for all. I recommend this article for all newcomers. If anyone who doesn't have issue 102 and wants a copy of the article, just email me and I will send you one.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

We here in the cooler climate use Primus Power Gas 4 Season Mix, product #2202, the 450g/15.9oz cans. 

Anyone interested in locating a dealer in their area can contact Paragon Sports of Williston VT, the importer. 

Larry


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Problem with ordering the gas is the Haz Mat fee the tack on top of the shipping. If at all possible find it locally. Isn't there a local train club around you could consult with?


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

I bought a case of King butane via eBay. Even with s&h and Haz Mat, it was still cheaper to pay the fees than driving all over the country to buy the cans cheaper.

.


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