# Hartland Big John question



## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

Just bought a Hartland Big John locomotive. Have seen others customize the loco and remove the board panels on each side of the boiler. What were those panels for? Protect the boiler or perhaps help air flow move the smoke away from the cab? 

Also looked at pictures of the Dunkirk locomotives that seem similar to the Big John. See items added to different customizations that don't seem to fit the original pictures. Wondered what alterations are really appropriate?

Any good info on taking the unit down to wash before painting?

Doug


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I believe the boards were there to hold a fuel supply of wood. 
There was no speed to those beasts... 
There doesn't seem to be any restrictions on how you want yours to look. 










Happy Rails 

John


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bmwr71 on 05 May 2013 09:43 AM 


Any good info on taking the unit down to wash before painting?

Doug

Doug... I remove the lettering by sanding if off, wipe the locomotive with denatured alcohol and prime it with Rustoleum 2X black primer. 10-15 minutes later apply the color coat, waiting 10 minutes coat the entire model with Krylon Crystal Clear Acrylic Satin, allow to dry for 30 minutes and apply the new decals.... Let dry for 24 hours, coat the decals and the whole model with Krylon satin.....

Before's and After's..


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

Stan, wiping with alcohol may be a good idea. I will admit that i usually disassemble the whole model and spray down parts to be coated with detergent and then hose down very good (just like model railroading, do my model work outdoors in all weather). I learned a lesson many years ago when I spent a bunch of time on a Delton work car but didn't clean it before hand and later the paint started flaking off while being handled. 

Regarding the decals, guess I can never come up with any cleaver names for any railroad companies for my locomotives and cars so they remain nameless unless they are for some usual company (like L&N that I still need to get with you on the decals). 

And regarding the looks of the locomotive, I posted looking for information on the locomotive on the yahoo early rails group and a guy that seemed to know about these locomotives included a photo of what he said he thought was the proper corresponding Dunkirk loco and he said the model looked pretty correct. I assume those round things under the frame between the trucks are supposed to be the ends of the cylinders and according to this guy they are in about the right position but the real cylinders I think would be canted to maybe a 45 degree angle and there would be linkage under there to drive the gear system. I saw one of these with some conversion work on the Hartland site from their photo contest and the owner added some items and I believe they were not appropriate for the loco (sorry to any reader who made that loco and correct me if I am wrong on the added items). 

And Stan, one more question. Noticed you left those board panels next to the boiler in place. I see that some remove them and didn't see them in the original picture of the Dunkirk locomotive. Any great insight as to why you kept them? 

Doug


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bmwr71 on 06 May 2013 11:23 PM 
{snip}

And Stan, one more question. Noticed you left those board panels next to the boiler in place. I see that some remove them and didn't see them in the original picture of the Dunkirk locomotive. Any great insight as to why you kept them? 

Doug 
I really didn't think about removing the side panels, Doug. I guess I thought it was a nice place to put the RR name. Removing them would certainly change the appearance of the locomotive.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Doug;

The Dunkirk used an opposed-piston steam cylinder configuration, much like the 4 cylinder air-cooled VW engines of the 1960s and 1970s. Those cylinder ends are displaying correctly, although they did have a shallow "V", I suppose the clearance under the cab kept them close to horizontal. I imagine that the configuration probably shook the wisdom teeth loose on the engine crew. One of Dunkirk's last design engineers was credited with designing the first Heisler geared locomotive. After Dunkirk's demise, he started the Heisler geared locomotive works.

I consider my Big John my favorite sparky steamer. The locomotive is deciptively strong for its size. When I still had my Bachmann Heisler, I would occasionally engage the two locomotives in a tug of war. I would set the Heisler's polarity switch to "NMRA," then couple the two locomotives back to back. The Dunkirk would drag the Heisler backwards (kicking and screaming) every time. 









I left the storage boards on my locomotive. All the ore cars had loads in the photo above. On that day I was running on a friend's garden railroad that had some grades in excess of 3%, yet the locomotive never slipped under load.

Best wishes,
David Meashey


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I took the side boards off mine. The Big John is not really a prototype. Its a combination between and Dunkirk (and true Dunkirk engine did not have side rods) Its also part Heisler (it has side rods) and a climax. If you ever read the Phil Jensen Story it tells you the idea behind the Big John. Very good read. 
Mine is slowley being converted into Dunkirk. I want to take the side rods off and make the cylinders on the sides.


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