# Tail Lights



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I was closing up my third NW-2 after installing a Airwire decoder board When I remember red lights on my SD-45 


So I added them to my NW-2

When the engine is going forward the Lights are off.

Then it is reversed The red lights come on


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Classification lights. 

Somewhat strangely implemented in USAT locos, have been looking into this myself. 

USAT uses a bipolar bicolor led, a 2 wire led that has red and green. 

Interestingly some east coast railroads did do this. 

My railroad used white or red, so I've been hunting a DCC-compatible (common anode) 3 pin red white led. 

using the stock bipolar led is a bit tricky with DCC decoders and does not always work in a convenient manner, i.e. controlled with direction. 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Very interesting seeing how the NW2 did not have these lights. later RJD


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Both Aristo and USA don't seem to kniow the difference between classification lights and marker lights.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09 Jul 2013 07:20 AM 
Classification lights. 

Somewhat strangely implemented in USAT locos, have been looking into this myself. 

USAT uses a bipolar bicolor led, a 2 wire led that has red and green. 

Interestingly some east coast railroads did do this. 

My railroad used white or red, so I've been hunting a DCC-compatible (common anode) 3 pin red white led. 

using the stock bipolar led is a bit tricky with DCC decoders and does not always work in a convenient manner, i.e. controlled with direction. 

Greg 
.........................................................................................................................................

Greg. Just wondering??? Can't you on DCC use the motor power to operate the LED marker lights? If so, use the motor pulse voltage to work the direction or White LED in forward direction and Red LED in rev. direction. Put both LED's in a tube to show thru a Fiber Optical wire to the marker light location. I've done something like this in Ho. Just wondering.
I've been looking for a Bi White/Red or White/Red/Blue that can be controlled and can't find one yet.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sure, but why would you want to? You have constant power on the rails... hooking to the motor makes the lights go out when the motor stops. 

Much simpler to get a dual color led... they even make 3 and 4 color ones. 

I found the whit/red in the 3 pin common anode which is what you want for decoders. 

What are you looking for? A bipolar (2 pin) red/white? Easy to find.. 

Greg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't know your could change polity on DCC. to change the direction of the LEDs' off of tracks with out a relay but then three pin no problem.. 
Ya . Been looking for a two pin Bipolar Red and White.. We are track power so would work for us. Got an link? I need 6 of them if I can get them.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

here is how I dood it. 


I got a voltage regulator the puts out 3.3 volts.

The regulator has three legs. a Positive lead.....A negative lead or Ground. and a output lead.

The Pos Lead gets power form the Pos lead of the Motor circuit. 

The negative / ground lead goes to the other motor lead. 

The LEDs are on the Output lead and Ground lead of the Regulator. 

In the positive lead of the Regulator I put a 1 amp Diode Silver ring towards the Regulator 

When the engine is going one direction and the lead with the diode is Positive the regulators works and the lights light 

When the Engine is going the other direction the lead with the diode is negative and the regulator is turned off.

The LEDs are out.

When the motor is given power The voltage is usually high enough for the regulator to put out 3.3. volts.

JJ


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, 
Do white/green/red LED's exist? The BN used those three colors for class lights. 

Craig


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

noel email me so we don't further derail JJ's thread 

Greg


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Thanks for the description JJ, just what I need to do the same 

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By bnsfconductor on 09 Jul 2013 09:37 PM 
Greg, 
Do white/green/red LED's exist? The BN used those three colors for class lights. 

Craig 
I have White, Blue, Green, Red, Yellow, Amber LEDs.




I also have Super White and Super Blue in packs of 100. 

I buy them in Packs of 100 on E bay

I have 3 MM and 5MM 

I have 100, 150, 460, 470, 1k, 150k ohm resistors 1/4 watt, Also in Packs of 100 

Price from 1.50 to 3.00 per hundred 

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

JJ, we are talking multiple colors in a SINGLE LED... I have to check, I know I've seen 3 colors, and I believe there were some 4 color ones. 

Greg


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10 Jul 2013 07:07 AM 
JJ, we are talking multiple colors in a SINGLE LED... I have to check, I know I've seen 3 colors, and I believe there were some 4 color ones. 

Greg 
Sorry JJ I should have clarified. Yes I was talking about red/green/white in a single LED. I've seen plenty of red/green/yellow, and plain white, but never a combination of the three. If you can find any Greg, let me know.

Craig


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

From a single R-G-B LED we digitally mix the RGB values to obtain the needed color spectrum. If you just want to toggle the RGB values on/off, the following combinations should give you plenty to play with - using a single common Anode RGB LED.










RED[] = {ON, OFF, OFF};
GREEN[] = {OFF, ON, OFF};
BLUE[] = {OFF, OFF, ON};
YELLOW[] = {ON, ON, OFF};
CYAN[] = {OFF, ON, ON};
MAGENTA[] = {ON, OFF, ON};
WHITE[] = {ON, ON, ON};
BLACK[] = {OFF, OFF, OFF}; 

We now wirelessly set the RGB values for a single LED with PWM using this similar chart. 
White is simply {255,255,255} - but we go further and add a tinge of incadescent yellow for warmth 

Cheers,
Victor


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks for the INPUT guys. I did not think of the Multi colored LEDs. They were in the back of my mind. I did not think I had a use for them . 

The old saying " You learn something new every day." Well I increased my knowledge with this post....Thanks ......JJ


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I recently purchased 5mm Red, Green & White Common anode (Positive / Bipolar) LED's from the UK. I'm hoping the white is really white and hopefully offers an incandescent warm glow look, we'll see. 

http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_260_26_146&products_id=916 

Michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, they are pretty expensive. Look around a bit and you will find who actually makes them. 

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 12 Jul 2013 09:25 AM 
I recently purchased 5mm Red, Green & White Common anode (Positive / Bipolar) LED's from the UK. I'm hoping the white is really white and hopefully offers an incandescent warm glow look, we'll see. 

http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_260_26_146&products_id=916 

Michael 
Why buy the three color Diode? Why not just a warm white diode?


JJ


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

JJ
I model Southern Pacific in the steam diesel transition era. SP used multi color classification lights; or more specifically interchangeable white, green and red lenses. 
Espee’s class lights were defined as follows:
Lights out - scheduled train on the time table
Green - Scheduled train with a second section following
White – Extra train or not on the time table
Red - Used as rear marker lights when moving light; i.e., no freight cars

I’ll be installing the tri-color LED’s on a trio of engines I’ve been modeling to emulate SP’s early fleet of GP9’s, two low nose hood units and a third high nose in scarlet and gray livery.

Michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... was not white used on the last section of a multiple section train? 

Also, wasn't green defined as scheduled train section with one or more sections following (multi-section train and not the last section) 

Greg 

update: just went to the link on the leds, see they have the Santa Fe rules... so SP was different?


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Jul 2013 09:19 PM 
Hmm... was not white used on the last section of a multiple section train? 

update: just went to the link on the leds, see they have the Santa Fe rules... so SP was different?

Greg,

Every railroad had different rules about class lights and the colors. For the BN it was White is extra (un-scheduled train), Green scheduled train with following section, and Red was the tail.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By bnsfconductor on 12 Jul 2013 10:06 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Jul 2013 09:19 PM 
Hmm... was not white used on the last section of a multiple section train? 

update: just went to the link on the leds, see they have the Santa Fe rules... so SP was different?

Greg,

Every railroad had different rules about class lights and the colors. For the BN it was White is extra (un-scheduled train), Green scheduled train with following section, and Red was the tail. 

Tail was the last train in a multiple section train?

Or Tail as the rear end of a train ? 

JJ


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Could be either depending on the railroad. Most of the time red signified the end of the train. When running a cab hop (loco + caboose) or light power the class lights would need to be red. For my loco's I may just end up with solid white class lights as my territory I'm modeling only ran 'extras' as no scheduled trains were listed on the timetable.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ,
Here are a few shots to show class lights and marker lights using my steam locos. 
This one has white classification lights indicating an extra or non scheduled train. If they were off it would mean a scheduled train.









This one shows a helper at the rear with red MARKER lights. The sun faded this shot some but they are red. This is where S.P. had them on vanderbilt tenders.









This one shows a caboose with what they called frog eye markers. They could show red or green. Normally red at the rear of the train.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very interesting... would the caboose show green if it was coming towards us in the picture? 

Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,
Not sure about the green on the caboose. Just know thats the way the frog eyes looked. Someone else might know. Also if the loco was added at the rear as a helper and didn't have marker lights it would probably be cut in ahead of the caboose.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 Jul 2013 09:28 AM 
Very interesting... would the caboose show green if it was coming towards us in the picture? 

Greg ..................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Greg.. In the old days talking to a switchman oper. at the Elves Tower here in Sacto. The green marker light was showing the end of the train to the tower coming at him on a turn.. If the caboose was turned around, it was the same way as Green forward and Red showing from the back of the caboose.
Besides Elves, other towers I guess did the same thing. The Elves tower is a dbl. track wye. and lot of traffic mainly during the 40 and 50ths. 
Dad would take me on evenings to watch the trains being we lived not to far form the Elves Wye. I was a train nut most of my young life and liked to see trains at night, watch the wheel spark on the tight turn and waiting for the green light on the caboose. Not sure why they still didn't have the green marker on the side of caboose like most R.R. after few years of WW-2. 

So tower had a lot of close and fast switching to do and need to see the end of the train coming towards them to make the track changes. That one reson why they started to put the back to back red and green markers on top of the cabooses on the S.P. 

Didn't Santa fe have one all around vision Yellow and Red markers on top of there caboose? 

Anyway back to J.J. I'm going to start doing like he did and start getting marker on some of my Switch Eng. too. Really looks great J.J. 
I always want to do my Aristo S.F. Center cab, but not to sure how to do it yet with out extending the markers out on a bracket off the reset hoods and walkway.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Noel, interesting information.


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