# New to the Hobby and have a lot of questions



## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Hi all,

I have been recently been getting the idea into my head to start a garden railroad in the future in my backyard when I go to re-landscape it. Now I have loved model trains as a kid and was a collector of Lionel stuff but the fact of the matter is I will probably never have the space to setup a layout inside again so going G-Scale and having an outdoor setup sounds like a pretty good idea. I have been looking around at sites, forums and stores and I will say that this is the worst hobby for anyone in getting any explanations on anything, or maybe because I am an enginner and I just always seek more detail. My thought is to do a dual main line loops around the back yard with my yard going back about 40 to 50 feet and then seting up a railyard off of that. About the only thing I have managed to settle on is it sounds like using stainless steel track is the best way to go about having a trouble free experience but being new the hobby the powering and control of the layout leaves a lot to be desired in trying to find an explanation. 

I am planning to use track power well as I don't like dealing with batteries and if I am redoing yard I can have power anyway. What no one explains with these tranformers is after how many feet do you need to add another power connection to boost the current? If I have two main lines do I need seperate power supplies for both? Next if I am running multiple trains and assuming I am using a single power supply how do I control them? Can you have a wireless controller and install a seperate receiver in each locomotive to start and stop the trains independently if you are using a single transformer?

Also I am noticing a lack of accessories? Are there no outdoor signals I can add? Are there no stainless steel powered track switches that you can indepentently control?

I am sorry if this is a lot but again as said I am new to the hobby and finding the internet resources very much laking in these explanations. My idea is a have a wireless controller in hand and can run two seperate trains on my main lines and can control switches and such and send them into the yard if I like and even have a few signals that react as trains approach and pass. My ultimate dream is to run a nice military train around as part of the layout but thats a bit of a long shot unless USA trains takes up my idea to finally produce the governments DoDX flat cars and uses someone like the forces of valor minatures as the cargo.

Anyway, any explations anyone can provide or point me to would be greatly appriciated.


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## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

It sounds like DCC is the way you want to go for powering your layout, I am sure plenty of people on here will be able to help you with that.(I don't use it so I will let someone that knows alot more about it explain) 
But possibly if you let us know where you are located there may be someone close to you that has a layout you can go check out as there is a lot to learn! 

Have fun! 
Vinny


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Thats for replying. I am located in New Hampshire.


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## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Your in luck, you have a club in your area! 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/12/aft/127109/afv/topic/Default.aspx 

Put a post up in there, plenty of people that may be local to you and can help you out!


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## Jonnychuffchuff (Dec 24, 2010)

People's mileage varies. I find that with SS rail a feeder every 20-30 feet works fine. You can run track power which is radio controlled, BTW. AristoCraft sells the system. I prefer a separate transformer for each train. I don't use DCC. Not a fan, but many swear by it. I use both track power and radio and infra red RC. All work fine. I'm in Toronto and the stock rail joiners also work fine; railclamps are useful around switches for maintenance/liftout purposes. 

I don't use ballast. One of my best decisions. Track laid 2-3' above ground level, on fill, on concrete pavers, stonework retaining walls. Trackwork in yards is on wooden benchwork. 

No stooping, no ground-level track. Another best decision. 

Double-tracking the mainline is always a good idea, IMHO. But start with one and get it running ASAP. Don't be a perfectionist. There's time to upgrade to finer things later. Maybe much later, maybe never, depending on your personal priorities. 

Once you've got your basic questions answered you should give careful thought to whether you want a) 'roundy-roundy'-type operation - running trains in circles, basically chasing their own tails - this seems to be ok with most backyard RR-ers, but it bores the heck out of me, or b) more realistic actual railroad operations - assembling trains, running peddlar freights, switching industries, etc etc. Personally, that's what I far prefer. But once you've decided on that then you can decide whether to lay a continuous loop or perhaps a point-to point line. If you can't decide until you've experienced it all a bit more, then remain flexible. I would strongly advise you against permanently laying a continuous loop before you've also experienced a railroad built for switching operations, possibly in point to point form. I know I'll never look back. 

Mine is basically point to point, but I do have a continuous loop as well, for testing or for entertaining visitors who want to see that. Our operating group runs things on the point to poiint principle, though; that just seems far more interesting to us.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

I agree with Vinny and see if you can find a local G scale club near by.....usually these guys and gals can provide a lot of insight; especially since you are in the northeast and probably have lots of issues with frost heave, snow and rain to contend with. The digital command and control is a good idea and yes you can install various circuit boards in each engine so they work independently through the controller. Track power will require good attention to detail for the connecting track sections to assure no dead spots. I'm sure that the track power folks are going to chime in and steer you towards a 6-10 amp system....Bridgewerks makes really good stuff, but is expensive. I have both track power and battery. For outdoors operation, I prefer the battery operation since the maintenance on track (cleaning and checking connections, etc.) goes away. But understand that it isn't for everyone. 

Stainless steel track is pricey but good....but you may find issues with getting enough for what you want and it won't show up that much at swap meets...personal experience. I like brass and since your real concern is going to be were the electrical contact is to the rails, and you are going to have to clean the track anyway, you might not want to completely give up on other solutions. Again, I would ask around. Good luck, I am sure you will find the hobby interesting and will fill any gaps between work and house chores. My wife is also involved (has her own Airwire controller and engine) and is a master gardener....so we get to spend a lot of time together. 

Ed


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Look at code 250 track, your trains look more realistic. Get a section of it and a section of code 332(Aristo/USA/LGB) and see what you think when you set a locomotive on it.


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks for replies. Ok I am happy to hear that yes it sounds like I can use a controller to run multiple trains independantly while using a single power source. What I find annoying is that yes you see controllers and the boards but no one writes any details or guides on any of this stuff. I wish I could run off and start doing this now but it will probably be a couple years before I start as I have other projects going on at home I need to complete first. Like finishing my basement. Once thats done I can look at redoing the landscaping and doing a layout, or I can do an oval on ceiling of basement as a start too. Like I said I am an engineer by trade so plan a lot of things out first before doing them but when I do I ususally go big. 

So, another question I have is with accessories, are manufacturers dying out or something because I see little in regard to signals or other items for the hobby.


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Signals Actually one of the weaker points of the hobby. Only within the past few years have some folks started producing "operating" signals. But they are mostly onamentally operational....that is they will change aspect as the train passes, but not really tied to track occupancy that regulates train movement. A single signal (say that 5 times) runs about $50-$75 http://www.sbsignal.com/Large_Scale.html#LS_BLOCK 

Stainless steel track is very hard to find right now.


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Why the sudden shortage?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice thing about DCC: reverse loops are not an issue like they are on a DC layout. 

DCC also basically is constant power, thus you can control and power your signals from the track, done right, no extra wires anywhere, connect the signal to the rails with 2 wires. 

Stainless track is also now available from several companies, check out my track section on my site. 

Also check out the "My implementation" section on my site why I went DCC... for that matter read the FAQs section.

Plenty of answers and options.

Greg


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, I have sent you a private message. Regards, Dennis


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Can't resist adding a few more thoughts.... 

You make an "interesting" comment on the lack of details....I actually find that as you look through the various forums, there are more details, pictures, links to "how to do it" sites and opinion/advice than one can digest without a lot of reading and research. Since you have some other projects, I would suggest that you start writing down on a scratch pad, sticky note above your computer or a note on your smart phone and then start asking the questsions (one at a time) to the various forums. Don't forget to save some of the answers. While you are finishing the basement, you can glean a lot of good thoughts and start working on the future railroad. I would highly recommend that your planning for the garden layout go hand in hand with the landscaping. Plants aren't as forgiving if you decide to rip them out and move them over a little...Ha. 

You actually need to make some decisions about what you want the hobby to be for yourself (remember, someone wrote it in one of the posts here, you are the engineer). Are you going to be strict in the scale you are going to build and therefore not mix and match? Do you have a particular era that you want to model? Is it going to be kid friendly or a portion to be kid friendly? Are you going to elevate it or run it on the ground? What skills do you need to learn and practice (do you build scale structures from scratch, are you going to do conversions to engines yourself, (throw the budget in there somewhere) and do you plan on having friends (fellow hobbyists) over for operational train running? The list can go on and on. 

I'm sure that if you find a local club or individuals that have been in this hobby that you'll get lots of help. I've run a very large loop around the living room ceiling for almost 9 years before I started working outside. Was great for the holiday train. 

Ed


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Joseph, 

To break it down to the basic differences between the different powering systems. All can be/are remote controlled. 
You can mix battery powered with the other two systems if desired. 

Track powered. Like traditional model trains. Aristo-Craft have a remote system. 
DCC. (Digital Command Control) A digitally controlled track powered system for multiple items. 
Battery powered. Usually remote controlled. 

Track powered needs very good electrical continuity in the rails/wheels. One train per isolated section/controller. Potentially the most wiring. 
DCC, rails are always full powered by one unit. Needs electrical continuity also. Many trains and accessories run off the same track power. 
Battery power requires all locos to be fitted out unless gear is in trailing boxcar. No electrical continuity problems. Can use cheaper aluminium rail. 

If incorporated into landscaping, setting all raised with walls saves on stooping and the trains look better too. 
All or parts can run on a raised structure or 'ladder track' on posts. 

Andrew


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Signals; 
www.jptrains.com 

Small local company, I have no connection and my trains get track warrants. 

Welcome, 

John


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

"...why the sudden shortage ...." 

higher demand, becoming more of a "strategic" commodity world-wide, and when we throw our bits of steel in the garbage/landfill vs a recycling bin at the local scrap yard, it don't help 


http://www.northernironcorp.com/ind...ng-raw-material-shortage-world-steel-industry 

doug c


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## GoeringTrains (Jan 27, 2013)

I agree that their is very little info online, but I'm not so sure about the steel track. I've had plenty of luck with brass. As to the track power, if your just starting in the hobby it might be good to begin with track power, but if you are going to run multiple trains, their is a lot less complicated track wiring if you go with RC. 

Brad.


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Thanks all for the replies. Greg I plan on looking at your site as DCC is something I am researching now. I will say I agree with Goering that there is very little definitive info on this stuff. Yes you can search around and find pages on peoples experiences but there are few sites that write up how to's that say well if you are going to have a dual loop system you need to wire it say this way and if its going to be so many feet you need feederlines every so many feet if using this material track. I guess the best way for me to do all this is to drawup a line plan and post it here for advice in the future. 

As for Ed's post I know what I am looking to do with my yard and I know what I want my layout to be as like dual loops that go around that allows me to run the trains with out having to monitor constantly and ability of both to run into a freight yard for switching out stock and the like. I am not looking to do a particular era per se as I want run a classic 30-40's passenger train, a more modern freight, and would love to do a modern military train but know one makes any with the detail I want (yes there is he USA trains stuff but doesn't really model DODX flat cars and the equipment they have on board is not as detailed as their trains. Ideally I would love to be able to control it from say a touch screen device like an Ipad or Android device and be capable of running the engines, switches, and possibly the coupling if something like that exists. While I find it interesting that there is the DCC standard for train control with a lot of the new technology like the Ipad more manufactuers aren't adding this kind of control in. I saw the following system in my searching which I though was neat: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq3U3gHMVTc 

but the above thing I think is still lacking. I would love to see and overall view of layout and control switches then select say an engine get that cab view and control it. The ultime would be if there is an intgrated camera in my engine giving me a track view as I control it.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

The trouble with details that are so common on indoor layouts like signals is the outside world beats them up. Imagine installing a nice signal then the next day find a squirrel had been munching on it! I find the more details I put on the more thye tend ot get lost or damaged. If you want alot of extra details then maybe you should consider elevating your RR to get it off the ground. Being in NH you get snow like we do in MASS which also does damage. 
As for power I have about 500 feet of brass track and use a Aristo train engineer with a crest 12 amp transformer. There are 5 feeder wires spread around. I can run 3 engines at once but when I hit STOP they all stop. I have several run through sidings where I can park a train and kill the power to the track. When I first started I had 125 feeet of track and used a 1amp starter set pack to power on train on it. When I expanded the walk around train engineer was the only affordable route for me. I like that I can buy a loco and simply put it out to run and not have to do a expensive install for a DCC decoder. 
Cleaning track isn't that bad, I use a scotchbrite pad on a pole sander and it takes 5 minutes. 
I'd recommend getting some track down and a train running. as you gain more experience your interests and focus might change. for now get a electric train some track and give it a good run.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

You want on-board sights and control? 
Try here; http://www.iptrains.org/mediawiki/index.php/On_board_digital_video_products 

I have no connection with these folks. 

John


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