# K4 oiler



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

On the Accucraft K4 which has the adjustable oiler, we seem to have a problem getting any oil through the system. After an hour run there are 3 or 4 drops of water in the tank with the rest being oil. Have any of you had this problem, if so what have you done about it? So far we have filed a flat on the needle valve but no change. We have checked to see if the lines are free and they are, if you open the oil tank with the throttle open you get a good amount of steam coming out. One fellow even drilled a second hole closer to the tip of the needle valve with no improvement.

So let’s have your ideas, we’ve run out.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't have a K4 to have experience with this, but I understand it is supposed be be adjustable. so... How far out have you adjusted the needle valve? Can you see the needle in the hole? (I don't know if anybody can see that part in the first place, but if the hole is still covered then maybe the valve needs to be opened more.) It is possible that the valve is heating up and metal expansion is closing the valve somehow?


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## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a step in the needle shaft so that you can't screw it all the way out while in steam. How ever it keeps the needle from screwing out enough to get oil as the step hits the inside of the packing gland hole and the screw stops. I added graphited string packing in the gland nut until it only would screw on about 3 threads, allowing me to back the control screw out more. Now it oils fine.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

I have had the same problem after two short runs I concluded it was not distributing the oil, I looked in the hole and it appears I am only seeing the shaft to the valve, and it will not screw out any further. It appears the shaft is blocking the hole. 
I have not been able to investigate further, since I have been on travel too much lately. 
Sounds like Larry's fix did the trick, I have some teflon tape to use as packing which I can try. 

I wonder if remachining the screw to allow it to back out further might work? 

My thought on oiling is too much going through the cylinders is better than not enough. 
Thanks 
Steve


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

After looking at mine when I first got it, it looked like the small hole in the oil reservoir may have been plugged. I took a small thin steel rod and after screwing out about 3 turns inserted in hole seem to do the trick and allows the oil to flow. Works great now. Later RJD


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## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan...I had the same problem........with the valve screwed all the way in....I marked the shaft thru the oil hole.I then unscrewed the shaft and with a dremel made the taper to extend to the mark. That solved the problem. 
To test I got steam up with no oil in the lubricator, the johnson bar in netural and the oil cap off I slowly opened the steam regulator and I then could see steam escaping fron the oil hole. Before almost no steam would escape fron the hole in the lubricator. Hope this helps.

BTW....did you ever resolve your GS4 issue ????

Merry Christmas Sal


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

So is opening the lubricator cap a good way to check for obstructions in the oil line? Steam means no blocks?


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Sal, we did what you did, no joy, we also opened the oil cap and yes steam escaped from the oil hole. I have decided that since I didn't sell this K4, I am going to suggest the owner take it to his dealer. I put the question up here hoping for a quick fix. With regards to my GS4, no I haven't even looked at it since September, we've been away in Europe and after coming home I've spent time catching up around the house. After Christmas I will have a go at it.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Out of curiosity, how much oil,would you say is needed in a run of say 45mins, to maintain an adequate lubrication process in the cylinders?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Jeremiah, 
How long is a piece of string! 
It would, I think, depend on what type of piston packing that you are trying to lubricate. 
The size of the cylinders. 
The viscosity of oil being used. 
Perhaps the load being pulled. 
But all in all, since steam is in itself a reasonable lubricant, you need very little. 
Just keep an eye on the rim of the stack and it should just show a light sheen of oil. 
Not as I found with the Accucraft Royal Hudson, oil down the first three car roofs as well. 
Now more or less fixed, it will still have oil in the tank after an hour of hard running, but is still using a little too much. 
Merry Christmas, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

David, 
that reminds me. My dad once asked me how many balls of string it would take to get to the moon. Do you know? 

Anyway, thanks. I figured as much, but hey, seeing that oil/water mix does wonders psychologically when thinking about the protection of your engine.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Jeremiah, 
Maybe just one ball IF it was big enough! 
Failing that, let me know. 
Merry Christmas, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I talked to RJ, but this small hole he found seemed to be in the needle itself. Has anyone else seen this or found it plugged? 

Greg


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Greg. Have you got yourself a live steamer yet? 

David, you are indeed correct. An alternate answer could be "as many as it takes". Now this can then be divided into what types of string. However, by now it is extremely off topic.


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## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

I have always set the oiler ( mechanical or Hydroststic) on my locos so that there is a light ring of oil around the top edge of the stack after it cools. Check it by running your finger around the rim (AFTER IT IS COOL). No oil there, no oil anywhere. To much & it will be slobbering down the outside of the stack and all over your white roofed coaches.[/b]


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

So far we have no oil anywhere.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Let's hope that the dealer will be able to fix it. 
That's why we have dealers. 
Merry Christmas, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## RDennis (Sep 25, 2011)

I've had the same issue, and ground down the needle a bit. Unfortunately when I was about to start my test run to check the modification my sight glass blew out, so now waiting to receive a replacement. More later.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By iceclimber on 20 Dec 2011 08:46 PM 
David, 
that reminds me. My dad once asked me how many balls of string it would take to get to the moon. Do you know? 





Zero. You need a rocket. Balls of string wont get you to the moon.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Posted By Chris Scott on 25 Dec 2011 11:46 AM 
Posted By iceclimber on 20 Dec 2011 08:46 PM 
David, 
that reminds me. My dad once asked me how many balls of string it would take to get to the moon. Do you know? 





Zero. You need a rocket. Balls of string wont get you to the moon.


It was more of a joke than anything else








You do need to use a rocket for the first time. After that, your piece of string will be launched.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

I finally have been home long enough to take a look at the K4 lubricator, it appeared the adjustable needle was too long and blocking the weep hole. 

I first shortened the needle valve by cutting it shorter and just deburing the cut, I figured it would still have some adjustment since it could then just partially block the weep hole. 
I tested this and is still did not seem to pass any oil, after a short run the oil was still clear and no evidence there was any water in the lubricator. 

I then hollowed out the cap about a 1/4" deep, since I figured it did not have any gap or space for the steam to enter the lubricator. 
I tested this and after a short run I shutdown the engine and the oil in the lubricator was light brown as normal and there was water in the bottom also. 
Also during the run I started to get the oil smoke after lowereing the regulator to low and then to high. This is a tell tale sign there is oil going into the superheater. Superheaters that are in the flue will get hotter at low or closed throttle and then when the regulator is opened the oil contained in the steam will flash into smoke eventually coming out the exhaust. 

I think I am getting good lubrication now. 
Thanks 
Steve


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Steve, 
I hate to suggest this, BUT, if the oil in the steam is flashing into smoke, how exactly is that going to help lubricate the cylinders? 
As I have said before, I feel that the lubricator does not belong BEFORE a superheater, it belongs after! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I suspect that the "Smoke" is oil vapor which will condense given the chance and will help the cylinders. Also the rest of the time the oil is not vaporized as much because the steam actually keeps it "cool" relative to the temperature it gets in the super heater when no steam is flowing.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

In a butane fueled engine the superheater can actuall glow red when no steam is flowing through it. After the steam starts to flow it will cool the superheater tube and you will get normal oil flow. The little bit of oil first introduced will flash into smoke. A little bit of oil can create a large amount of smoke. 

Cooling of the superheater is relative since it still remains hotter than any other part of the engine and it still reheats the steam. 

I agree, I think the oiler should be after the superheater. 

Thanks 
Steve


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I remember Dwight did a test on a few brands of steam oil to see which one can tolerate the heat they are exposed to when being run through a super heater. Some turned to carbon which would score the cylinders and valves and some were OK ( did not turn to carbon) I don't know if the lubricating properties or the ability to be carried by the steam were still there ???


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## nsimpson (Mar 15, 2010)

Steve - thanks for your excellent post...! I have been wrestling with the K4 oiler for 3 months trying everything, finally cutting the needle off completely, trying different oils, and even trying a larger oil cap and holding an ice cube on it (on rollers) to try and make the steam condense and displace the oil. I have now drilled the cap on my small lathe first 1/4 x 1/4, then 1/8 x 17/64, then 1/16 x 9/32, and finishing with a 5/16 drill to champfer the edges as the weep hole is very close to the edge of the cap. I tried the engine Wednesday night after work managing a half run before complete darkness and the oiler produced just over 1/3 full of water. That is more water than I have ever drained even after a full 75 minute run. I think the problem is solved...! Cheers and thanks, Neil.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

Your welcome Neil, I am delighted it has worked for you also. 

Steve


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

Below is the Youtube link to the video I took last weekend. It is my K4 pulling 6 Aristocraft coaches, I am delighted with the performance. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6xeclosI3s&list=UUXBnvAPrxSsJijIQ-3YbemA&index=1&feature=plcp 

I opened the drain cocks to start the engine, these allowed the engine to start smoothly while backing out of the steamup bay, I then closed the drain cocks after the first lap. 

Thanks 
Steve


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## nsimpson (Mar 15, 2010)

Nice run, Steve...! All you need now is a 'chuffer'...!! 
This may look familiar.... - 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMDjgRb39sk&context=C34592a3ADOEgsToPDskJDZiyTR62a0HLIcsXGzSLW 
I too, am vey happy with the K4, especially now that it is getting oil to the cylinders.... 
Cheers, Neil.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I would love to get a K4 one day. Good job and good to see you guys getting oil to those poor cylinders finally.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Steve, 
What a great and neat looking track. 
I see from one of your other videos that it is Eric's. 
Which Eric is that? (Unless he rather us not know). 
Is he a member of MLS? 
Anyway, nicely built track and hedge and everything. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

His name is Eric Strauss, a very fine gentleman and skilled engineer, he has inspired me to rebuild my layout with better attention to details. The results are worth it, his track is the finest in SO CAL. 

I am not sure if Eric is on MLS or not. 

Steve


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## grumpfuttock (Jan 2, 2008)

I have had the same problem of too little lubrication on my Accucraft Mogul "Poncha" since last summer, although it didn't seem to affect running, and the piston rod did have a thin layer of oil on it after a run and oil would accumulate under the cylinders, so it must have been getting some lubrication. But like others in this thread, after a 45 to 60 minute run, there was never more than 3 or 4 droplets of water in the lubricator, even with the adjustment fully open. Another thing I noticed was that the steam oil when I drained the lubricator was light brown and very finely emulsified, nothing like the state of the oil I drain from my other locos. 

I tried Larry Hergets fix with the graphited yarn, and when I tested it with the lubricator cap off, I got much more steam jetting out of the hole than before. Convinced that the problem was solved, I ran the loco on blocks for 45 minutes- the result was no condensate and weird looking steam oil. Puzzled, I measured the distance from the bottom of the cap to the O ring, which was 6.9mm, I then measured from the top of the lubricator to the top of the pipe and discovered that it was the same distance, so I guessed that the flat bottom of the cap must be pretty well blocking the hole. I fitted a thicker O ring and hollowed out the bottom of the cap. After running the loco for 45 minutes this weekend, I can happily report that with the lubricator adjustment open approx 4 turns, I now get a third of the lubricator filled with water, and the remaining oil in the lubricator looks normal.


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