# Getting Rid of microswitches on # 6 switches.



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I have Aristo's and I suspect that they are popping my blade fuses, be it 5 amp or 10 amp. Polarity issues? 


When I first got these switches and looked at the frail design of the microswitch I knew up front that they would give me grief ! 

Any solutions out there and can I just simply get rid of this microswitch? I hear Train Li has a solution. 


gg


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Read my site on the #6 switches, there's several things to be done. 

There are 3 versions of the switch, and the latest version is somewhat improved on the activation of the microswitch, but I think it is still a poor design because of no adjustment, and very little movement is used to trip the switch,(back to the adjustment problem) 

The wiring has dissimilar metals touching, and I had mine rot away in a number of years. There is a supposedly waterproof microswitch available from Aristo, but of course not out long enough to tell if they work. Since they are about $2.50 each, it's hard to believe they are as good as a $10 waterproof switch from a known manufacturer. 

Train-Li addresses another problem, the depth of the frog. The geometry of the throat of the frog is bad, and wheels will drop into the frog which causes excessive wear. It's often unnoticed by people until there is a huge amount of wear. It is also noticed when a loco wheel drops in and a slider gets caught, usually with catastrophic results. 

Train-Li makes a precision cut SS insert for the frog which makes it "flange bearing" so that wheels cannot drop in. I'm outfitting all of my #6 switches with them. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yes, I have all 3 switches outfitted with Train Li frog inserts and trust me a big difference. 

What would happen if I just "snipped" the wire and deactivated the microswitch? I think that my frog would have no power for a second or so..... not good I guess. 


Forget Aristo $2.50 specials... 

Who out there makes a decent switch that I can retrofit. Mount on the side of the switch, waterproof, Manual operation etc. 


gg


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You could bypass it altogether. I'm using LGB turnout motors on my switches, and I also managed to get two of the LGB "EPL supplementary switches," Which fit onto the end of the switch motor housing. It's basically a DPDT switch that's activated by the turnout motor. Waterproof

I have been using #6 switches outsidewith the original miscroswitch and it's been fine so far. when theu fail I'll go to the LGB solution


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I use air power switches with an integral waterproof micro switch. I power the frogs because I do have some short wheelbase locos. 

No manual on this. 

If all your locos are pretty long wheelbase AND all the pickup points work on your locos, you might not even notice that you have "dead" (unpowered ) frogs. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

SHAY ?????


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Shay waht? 

ha ha, will get my act together... 

Greg


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

LOL

Will a shay get across a "dead" frog on a #6? 

Or is the wheelbase too short? 


gg


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

If you toggle your turnout electrically, you can use the LGB EPL attached to the LGB turnout motor. But a more reliable method is to trigger a latching relay at the same time you toggle the turnout. I find that while the EPLs work OK, they do on occasion foul or fail to throw all the way due to dirt/moisture intrusion. I use these on my non-critical turnouts to park trains at the ends of sidings. But I use dpdt latching relays on two of my critical turnouts. They are foolproof and/but if a train pushes the points over (rather than being toggled) the relay (and track electrial orientation) doesn't change.

The 24-volt latching relays will latch on the same voltage used to drive the LGB turnout motors and you can simply run them in parallel with the LGB turnout motors with the addition of 4 diodes across the relay coil terminals. An alternative would be to use latching relays of any voltage and trigger them off a different pole of the turnout toggle than that actually used to toggle the turnout.


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Shay waht? 

Toggle my moggle? 

Let me digest this information here for a while...


gg


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... I would prefer contacts that are moved/set by the actual location of the points. 

Are you driving the latching relay in parallel with the activation of the switch motor? 

If so, then if a train goes through the switch the "wrong way" won't you have a short? 

Regards, Greg


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Let me reflect on this concept.....

gg


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 06/15/2009 3:31 PM
Let me reflect on this concept.....

gg 






I depower all my aristo #6 frogs just to many issues with the micro switch. i run all 4 axle and larger locos so no power issues going thru switch, but i do need to pickup some of them Train Li frog inserts.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/15/2009 3:29 PM
Hmm... I would prefer contacts that are moved/set by the actual location of the points. 

Are you driving the latching relay in parallel with the activation of the switch motor? 

If so, then if a train goes through the switch the "wrong way" won't you have a short? 

Regards, Greg


Due to reliability, I prefer them to be electrically toggled. Another advantage is that by removing the EPL, the turnout motor has an easier task of moving the points. This is a big advantage on the Aristo 10-foot diameter turnout I use associated with the one of these relays as these are harder to throw reliably than the LGB 8-foot turnouts to begin with. Put the EPL on these and it's almost a crap shoot!

Yes.

No, not in my use of them. One is used on the "leap frog" that kills a block/livens a block with out the necessity of the EPL. The other is used on a siding that when toggled lets a train run P-T-P along this siding and a portion of the mainline while killing the access for other trains to the siding/main line.

If they were used for frog polarity, yes there would be a short if you went through backwards and the turnout were thrown against you. But even if the switch were connected to the points motor (ala EPL), there would also be a short if the points were thrown against you even if pushed over by the wheels as soon as the wheels contact the points, so this is really no different.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By GG on 06/15/2009 2:35 PM
Let me digest this information here for a while...


gg











Don't choke on it.


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By toddalin on 06/15/2009 3:55 PM
Posted By GG on 06/15/2009 2:35 PM
Let me digest this information here for a while...


gg











Don't choke on it.












Trust me, I won't. Sir Nick has a beautiful solution. Read above. Call this a #6 vasectomy. SNIP goes the power to the frog. 

A Classic KISS approach.


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Snip Snip All done...*


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

American History? No.... 

I want your smilie... 

Now getting back on track. #6 vasectomy's are in.... 


gg


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I for one to date have had no issues with the micro switch. They have been out doors now for 4 years. of course i use silicone to cote the under side and protect all the electronics.







. Got to just love it when folks have problems. Me I just keep them trains a running. Later RJD


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote of course i use silicone to cote the under side and protect all the electronics.







.


Nothing like sharing that piece of info RJ before i snipped the wires, HE HE HE







i had 2 fail shortly after removing them from the box so i figured snip snip would save me greef...........


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Actually, on receipt, I siliconed all electronics underside. 

Bottom line: The microswitch is not designed for outdoor service and frankly I would not trust this particular manufacturer's switches even for indoor use. This for the risk of shorts and associated fires. I have seen the sparking and fuse blowing. 




My LGB switches will continue inside the house and I will be seeking out quality #6's for both in and out. The #6 switch is a great switch for larger (or smaller) locos. 


As people say.... the detail is in the track and making sure that the manufacturer is meeting or exceeding customer expectations. I make no bones here. Some manufacturers are clearly deficient however yet get away with this lack of product design for the service. And yes... in relation to other threads on this forum re product and manufacturer quality.... we the consumer simply keep on buying... 



Bad rap for them if they try to solve outdoor issues with $2.50 replacements. The cost tells me EVERYTHING. 

gg


----------

