# Steam Track at NGRC 2013



## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

I just got a call from some live steamer from michigan that ran a train on the live steam track at the national convention in Cincinnatti.

I understand that a mishap happened and a locomotive fell off the track and hit the ground. I'm so sorry that happened. I took the track to the convention because I was asked to and was happy to do it at my own expense so all live steamers could enjoy it. I am personally not into live steam but most of you know I am really big into the overall hobby.

I was told by the gentleman that my live steam track was crap and prominent people in the live steam manufacturing would recommend that no one run their trains on that track.

For those of you who don't know, this track was built by Eaglewings and I think it is well constructed. I had it built with wide curves so anything could run on it. I have carried it all over the country to shows and haven't had any complaints.

You can imagine my surprise when I was told a incident occurred at the Chicago Convention also. I wish I had been told so I could correct the problem.

In both instances, I agreed to bring the track as long as others who know about live steam would set it up. It has been that way at all of the shows.

If it needs to be improved, I am more than willing to do so. I just need some guidance instead of some one I don't know calling me to rant about my inferior steam track. 

It was originally put together by people I trust and hold in high esteem in live steam.

If any one is familair with my track and know how to make it better. Let me know.

As I said before. I only had it built and bring it to shows for the live steamers to enjoy.

David Roberts


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

David, 
Sorry to hear about your issues with the track and other steamers. All I can say is that anyone "using" a track to run their engines should understand that they are using the equipment at their own risk. You and others are not charging for use of the equipment, and therefore should not be held responsible in any way for mishaps that happen.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

I helped set up the track. Actually I held the section up while the Michigan guys set the supports underneath. I did notice that the supports did not have any way of adjusting for uneven ground. there is a height adjustment but no way to adjust for slope. I say this because the ground was very wavy there. They were going to level it thoroughly. Did not stay to see the final arrangement, but did see it the next day and it looked really good. 

Perhaps somebody could bring some 1X2s and 2X4s to help level the supports on wavy ground. My only suggestion.


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## NeilK (Jun 17, 2013)

Hi Dave: 

I'll start by saying I have not run a steam locomotive on any of the tabletop tracks (so far). I have, however, run large gauge steam locomotives at several tracks around the country and even worked several summers running an oil-burning steamer hauling passengers for our city. At any track, the first matter of safety is to run your locomotive at a very slow speed over all of the track you'll be using. Only then would I feel that a faster pace could be safely attained. Each track has its dips and kinks, wide spots and tight spots. You just don't want to find them by dumping a load of passengers (or yourself) on the ground. The frustration experienced while trying to put a thousand pound engine back on the rails by yourself is huge...that is a first-hand account - tight gauge/no passengers. 

Having said that, I feel the onus lies with the owner of the locomotive. He should have checked to see if there were any "trackage" situations that would compromise the operation of his engine. I don't know if that is Gauge 1 Track protocol or not, but I do make it mine. 

Neil


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave.... For you to get all the grief is a real shame... 

Just my 2 cents.... 

I've helped set up your track at a numbers different shows and know the "issues" that come with the all day job. Dan (Eaglewings) built the track so it's adjustable for a very rough surface. Inside or out. There are 3-4 guys who willingly volunteer to come to the show a day or 2 early (extra hotel and meal expense) to help set up the track so the live steam guys can run. When it comes time to run there are a dozen or more that show up, but it seems that many of those faces are nowhere around for setup or teardown.

According to your report, for someone to cry "foul" when they are not willing to help or be a part of the project is not politically or reasonably correct.... 

Just my two cents.....


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Neil, I agree. I am not a live streamer, but I enjoy watching them. It seems to me that the engineer is responsible for the safe running of the locomotive. Where I have enjoyed live steam, the engineer either walks along with the engine or he has it on a radio control and is close by. If only one engine hit the ground I wouldn't look at the track. Chuck PS. While it is really immaterial, what was the engine that hit the dirt?


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## GaryR (Feb 6, 2010)

As it happens, I was there. IMHO, it was not a result of bad track. Even if it were, if I was going to run a mega buck engine on it, I'd certainly check every inch. 

GaryR


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## bob80park (Jan 2, 2008)

David, 
I've had an Eaglwings track for over 7 years. It's located in my backyard and stays up all year round. We've NEVER had any locos fall off and crash. It sounds 
as if the problem might have been caused by the "Nut Behind The Wheel". It's the Engineers (operator) responsibility to check out any track before using it and operate 
in a safe manner (appropriate speed for the given conditions). A few years ago I remember hearing about someone else ifrom Michigan who had the bad luck of crashing an 
Aster K4 in a similar manner. 

Bob


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

ok, now I'm curious - which engine what it?


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with the folks above. When ever I go to a track (even a permanent one) I * ALWAYS* walk with the engine for at least the first lap or two. You never know if the last operator left a switch in the wrong position, or left debris on the track or even burned some track ties that may have got the track out of gauge. Actually you should be near your loco at all times in case of issues such as couplers letting go or what have you. 
That being said, I was once running on Mike M's track at the ECLSTS in York PA. It was nearing the end of my time slot and had been a completely uneventful run. Water level fine, fuel fine, I settled down and started talking with one cheek on a table in the center of the track. and *BOOM! *The loco for what seemed to be no reason did a catapult style launch onto the concrete floor. (Roy G. was standing close by was shocked and shouted "I didn't touch it!") Investigation revealed that the pin holding the drive rod into the crosshead had come out on the right hand side and the rod dropped down catching a tie. The engine had effectively pole vaulted onto the floor. Only if I had been walking backwards, in front of the engine with a large catcher's mitt would I have been able to prevent damage. (which actually was minimal and had the loco running again later that day.)

Shiznet happens.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John Allman on 26 Jun 2013 05:07 AM 
ok, now I'm curious - which engine what it? 

I heard it was a Accucraft T1 but don't know who. I also heard that he complained to everyone that would listen so his complaint seems to be in line with these posts. 

David, as others have said having a track to run on is a luxury. The track is there to run and their responsibility to first look and see what they are running on. If the track was such crap as he put it why did he run in the first place? I would just ban this person from running on your track. I've run on Eaglewings tracks in the past before and there does not seems to be anything that would make it crap? Maybe too heavy to be portable but has nothing to do with running. 

I personally have helped set up and break down various tracks at various shows. I know its always the same people that set up and break down and everyone else is mysteriously gone when its time. I'm not saying I am able to do it every time but I do make a point to help out when I can and time allows. Many that come to run have never thought to offer to help. 

There are certain people that just like to hear themselves complain about everything and nothing will ever be good enough for them anyway, I've learned that a long time ago. Not just in this hobby but in general.


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Jason, 

Spot on! It's your locomotive. If the track didn't pass your inspection why did you operate on it? Seems to be the trend in general today, no personal responsibility. 

I always walk with my engines for the first loop around (and sometimes the second). They take too long to build and I've got enough projects on the bench without another repair job! 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

The track itself was of a great quality. The setup area was the issue. The ground was extremly uneven which left large twists in the track structure. I chose not to run my lococ on it. I felt terrible as I know the effort that went into bringing it and the attempt to set it up as best as possible. The only parties at fault were the ones who deemed that the location chosen was acceptable. There were acres of pavement nearby. I for one wish to thank Mr. Roberts for bringing the track in the first place and attempting to provide a place to run. 
David Johnson


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Funny, I have not heard of anyone else having dumped a loco at the show on this track. If it was so bad, how come it did not happen to others? 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I was there when the folks were setting up the track. The person that help set up the track is the one that dump his loco. This track was set up in a hurry on Friday and should have been done when the track arrived. Sounds like it was put together in a hurry and not checking the level. I also understand this person loves to run trains fast. I agree with the folks above that one should walk there trains around for a lap or two to make sure track is fine. If the person felt the track was not level and stable enough then he should have not run. 


I have run on this track before and never had an issue as I was careful. The only thing is there is an opening between the two tracks but have not heard of anyone derailing and falling through. Later RJD


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I am a live steamer and do follow my engines around the loop several times, or constantly if its manualy controled. At the RLD open house last year, Robbie still had a few gauge issues to work out, while Emma didnt care about the gauge issues with her wider tread drivers. The more "to scale" Fairymead with her narrow tread drivers and finer flanges would drop off the rail in several places. Had I just turned Fairymead loose, it could have been a big mess. When I watch others steam, some folk I get the feeling have enough wallet depth that they just dont seem to care, even if they do the attitude they give off says otherwise. Where as my Fairymead was a gift from a dear friend and I watch it like a hawk. Lord knows I could never afford to buy an engine of that cost myself. That policy almost needs to be required at any steamup on a raised track. Pace your engine at slow speed the first 2-4 laps to inspect track and running qualities before picking up speed and settling in for the run. Mike


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Mike

Why didn't you start a NEW thread. This one is TWO YEARS OLD and unrelated to the subject of the thread you added too.

THE SHORT ANSWER [like it or not] is that most live steam locomotives that run on 45mm gauge track have wheel treads and flanges suited to code 250 rail and not code 332. This is very well known, but often ignored because the track is built for "G" electric trains. The frogs on 332 switches can be modified so the problem is not so great... but then the guys with 'mud cutter' flanges complain because THEIR stuff goes BUMP.


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