# USA Trains Bi-level Auto Rack with Kadee



## Winona (Sep 14, 2012)

The New Auto Racks from USA Trains are without a doubt a huge car and a fantastic looking model. It is great to see a manufacuter breaking the boundires of the steam era cars.
We have seen a huge change over the last few years of younger customers wanting the current locos and rolling stock, like the ones they see on the full size rails. We still sell the steamers and early diesels with 40' boxcars but the modern items is now our bread & butter. 

We run with Kadee couplers exclusively here at Winona, so I was disappointed to see that USAT did not add the conversion plate that is so easy to use on their other Ultimate series cars.
The car comes with a body mount USAT coupler at the standard height to match other USAT's products, with provisions to raise it to what they refer to as a body mount height.
After removing the coupler box and locating the coupler to the new height as per the instruction sheet, we discovered that it not matched to Kadee's height. It's too high. We confirmed this with the height gauge.
So who's height is it ???? USAT says it is their height and matches perfectly to their 60' boxcar's height. OK but it is still not Kadee height. 
This becomes an issue as lots of our customers use Kadee and without an off the shelf coupler we well be back to the old days of bashing to make one fit. 
Guess we got spoiled with their other cars ability to mount stock Kadee's without getting out the dremel.

At this point we have installed a K906 (830) by attaching it to the metal cover plate that comes with the car. We then had to dremel off half the height of the mounting tabs on the car to get the proper height.
We did only one end and decided that we better test it on the tracks before we get too carried away.

We backed in through some Aristo wide switches , the # 6s , and crossovers. One area that concerned me was entering the yard, where it takes an Aristo wide radius switch to the right with a 2' section of straight and then into a left switch. This is the closest I have to an S turn here. The Kadee 906 went right to the max deflection. Pretty much figured that was going to be the case. We added another car, but kept the stock couplers in place. Again keeping in mind the car has a 10' dia minimum requirement, the stock couplers went to almost the max this time. 

So have we found the perfect way to mount a Kadee to these cars ? Nope but I will keep trying. 
I don't have a Kadee flex mount in stock so I can't try that aspect, but I do think it will mount too low anyway.
Anyone found a better way yet?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You know there are 2 other threads on this car, and one has asked questions about couplers. 

I believe they are in the product review or public forums. 

Greg


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

thank you for your time to post this. i also like your bridge


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

enjoyed the videos of your layout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVfWtDc6lRU&list=UUAmVCUQiJgBaHOoHJb8XDng&index=4). Also, great weathering on your rolling stock.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Now see.... I thought the video would show the new cars in it. 
BTY I have been using alot of 789s for better side to side swing. New # ?don't remember


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's also that swivel mount used on Aristo passenger cars. 

Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Thank you John, again, for the roadrailers. They are a little older but a great deal! I hope to come back and get some Autocars from you and see your RR when it's warmer outside. Charlene didn't like the cold! 
You're very knowledgeable about USA trains! Thanks for taking the time, Joe


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## rocketrider (May 6, 2008)

Has anyone found a way to mount the Kadees?? So the height is correct??


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe there is another thread with more pictures and ideas. 

With the current state of the forum, too painful to search out... I believe it's in the product reviews, but could be anywhere. 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Back when I tried Kadees on my 89' cars, I found that any dip in the track at one end or the other would uncouple them. thus i use USAT tank car safety couplers. 
Other thread is just down below this thread with USA bilevel cars


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Product Reviews Forum/Topic: USA autoracks[/b]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty, I was not aware the USAT couplers were different on their tank cars from other cars? 

hmm... 

Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

yeap, they lock together.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've got several USAT tank cars, but the 10,000 gallon ones... did these special couplers come on them? 

Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

I've got older style smaller 10,000 ones without them. The newer bigger ones have them. I believe it's to recreate the shelf type that actually is used on real tankers? I've got a set in front of me. They only uncouple by releasing them. Up and down, they're locked together by the shelf. I believe that's what Marty's describing. you can see it clearly here in the video:

http://www.usatrains.com/usatrainsmoderntank.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Got it, thanks! 

I model an older period, so don't have any of these. 

Like the shelf on all Aristo couplers, and the shelf on the USAT streamliners. 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry Greg I did not even think to say which cars they came on. They really do work good. I've had a whole string of tanks hit a stick and derail and they would not uncouple even tring to get them back on the track. 
For this auto car I think they will meet the needs best.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, now I know I'm not completely nuts ha ha! 

I'll have to order a few and take a look. 

The will need some mods I guess since the car carrier coupler is so different. 

Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Hmmm, it also looks like the shorty "beer cans" have them too! I guess I should say then that all the modern tankers have them? I only have the large tank cars.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I know this is not your Kadee answer








This is the metal USAT large tank cars coupler cut off at the hump and drilled.
No center spring ability but its strong.
Make sure the head of the screw is in line with the slot in the metal chassie, it won't file down easy .

Right on the money for Kadee gauge. (with double stack truck on it)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting Marty... would think it would work well pulling, might push to "wrong" side when backing. 

Do you have a picture of the stock coupler unmounted, maybe even next to a ruler? I guess I might experiment and try to order one from the USAT parts guy. 

Interesting solution. 

Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm a big fan of KD products. However I think this is a great solution. I would build a train with these cars and probably keep them in groups locked together anyways. Reusing these couplers is great. Thanks.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Pushing, if I have problems then I may install set screws on either side of the swing, of course I would have to "test" how far the side to side is. 
For now I just look at them in the shop.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe figure out some inexpensive way to do a centering spring? 

I'm sure you will come up with something Marty! 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I was looking over Kadee site. #904 may work but you could only drill an 1/8" hole to not weaken the shank too much. Its only 1" long. You could drill a small hole in the back end and install a thin wire like (is it Aristo Engines) that goes straight back to help center it. But then, only "testing" will tell. LOL
Its like 8 degrees out now, I don't even want to walk to the shop.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I used one for the pilot on an Aristo Consolidation... never figured out why the shank could not have been a bit beefier. 










Greg


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