# Reserving the locomotives you want



## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

Accucraft Trains has announced several new exciting live steam projects: the 1:32 scale Norfolk & Western J-class 4-8-4 #611; 1:20.3 scale D&RGW C-25 class 2-8-0 coal fired; and 1:32 scale Canadian Pacific T-1c class 2-10-4 “Selkirk”. Accucraft Trains live steam locomotives are limited run, built in small quantities. Should any of the aforementioned projects be of interest, along with others we have officially announced, we strongly urge you to place your reservations now! Remember, deposits are not required! Models are built *only* to the quantities of pre-orders received!

Sincerely,

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks Robert.
I have mine in for the CP Selkirk.
I assume that there would still be a minimum number of reservations required before you consider starting production.
Come on guys, get those reservations in on your favourite loco!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

I put my reservation for the J as soon as it was announced and hope that enough others are stepping up to make their reservations too. 

At the same time, Accucraft needs to realize and understand that most folks don't want to commit their money until they get to see a functioning prototype model. In many cases, Accucraft has not made an operating prototype available before reservations were required. Examples of this failure include the Mason Bogie and the D&RGW T-12, and I'm sure there were others. And displaying the running N&W J at the California Summer Steam-Up when the likely buyers are on the opposite coast just isn't enough. At the very least, a more detailed and thorough video than the one posted would certainly help folks to make an informed decision.

Ross Schlabach


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Robert,
Is their a minimum number of commitments required to put the engine into production? i, like Ross, put in my name for a 611 when announced. If that minimum is reached, how long before production is started? I'm guessing we are not near the number since you out here encouraging orders.

Sam


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

How about delivering them? The Flying Scotsman comes to mind. I have had one on order for seeming years.

Dave Johnson


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Dave, 
Perhaps one is tied with the other. Insufficient orders means it doesn't get produced until profitable to do so based on a required production number. Perhaps Robert can confirm how the process works.

Of course, you may have better luck getting the Aster version...you seem to find a lot of them.
Sam


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

That one is NEVER cheap Sam


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Let's take it easy on the poor guy, I'm sure he is aware of all the promises that turned into maybes.

I would like to hear about 1:29 stuff Robert.

Greg

(ask Fred who I am)


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

RP3 said:


> I put my reservation for the J as soon as it was announced and hope that enough others are stepping up to make their reservations too.
> 
> At the same time, Accucraft needs to realize and understand that most folks don't want to commit their money until they get to see a functioning prototype model. In many cases, Accucraft has not made an operating prototype available before reservations were required. Examples of this failure include the Mason Bogie and the D&RGW T-12, and I'm sure there were others. And displaying the running N&W J at the California Summer Steam-Up when the likely buyers are on the opposite coast just isn't enough. At the very least, a more detailed and thorough video than the one posted would certainly help folks to make an informed decision.
> 
> Ross Schlabach


Actually Ross with the Mason, I was only able to get it built because of my list of advance orders. Once the prototype was built then there was a increase in orders.

As to the J, I tried to get it to be at Jims for next week and to be here for the NJLS and PLS meets but that never went anywhere as they shipped it back to the factory just a short while ago. Would of been nice to show it off and drum up interest in the flesh.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Kovacjr said:


> Actually Ross with the Mason, I was only able to get it built because of my list of advance orders. Once the prototype was built then there was a increase in orders.
> ....


That is true, it is thanks to Jason who collected names of the folks who wanted the Mason, that the project I suggested here on MLS moved from the discussion forum onto the drawing board. Which then got taken over by David Fletcher, producing a result far exceeding expectations (at least my own). I am still hoping for a modern Mason #42 though! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a C25 on order with Jason. They are on the Accucraft web site but I don't know if they are in production. I'm keeping my fingers crossed!


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Jason, you are to be congratulated for being able to get folks to commit "in the blind" but it is foolish of Accucraft to expect that people are going to regularly queue up for an unseen locomotive. If they are complaining about lack of reservations, their failure to do a good job of making a prototype available for inspection and running in the part of the country where it is expected to sell is probably responsible for any slow rate of reservations. 

With regard to the J, they also haven't helped their case by posting an incorrect N&W passenger car color scheme that fails to include the correct upper and lower yellow striping. I've been told second-hand that they are going to fix it, but that is worrisome. I mentioned in a group conversation with Bing at DHAKA that it was not a good idea to release the N&W passenger cars before the engine was available since folks would be reluctant to commit a couple thousand dollars for the cars before Accucraft had a matching engine for sale, but it appears all the passenger cars are coming in at once -- well before we know if the J is going to start production. Given Acc. past actions of delaying models sometimes for years after announcing them, my confidence in them is guarded at best. 

Don't get me wrong. I like and buy their products, but some times they don't make good marketing decisions.

Ross Schlabach


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I waited till the Mason was reduced to clear out the stock before I bought one, and after modificatons am very happy with it. 
I think that strategy is a thing of the past since they now advertise that they will only produce what is pre-ordered. Good business decision, but for us that are looking for a sale, those days may be over. 
I just increased the reservation to two with Silver State for the purposed 3 truck shay. One for me and one for investment purposes. I do hope there are enough reservations to make it profitable for them to produce the locomotive. LG


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Ross,
I am not sure that I quite agree with you.
Relatively few people get to see Aster prototypes being run, yet they seem to sell out most of their models.
So, I am not sure that seeing a prototype run, or inspecting it, will, or should create reservations.
We should all by now know what quality Accucraft is capable of, so if a model is announced, then interested parties WILL make their reservations.
I am sure that Accucraft will realise that for every so many reserved, then there will also be other buyers who come in late, or need to see the product before spending their money.
Also, it should be pointed out that unlike another manufacturer, there is no money involved in making a reservation with Accucraft.
As I have said before, I think that the real issue is that the marketplace is getting flooded, and that there is only so much money for us enthusiasts to spend.
IF they choose wisely, I see no reason why Accucraft should not just be building their models 'behind closed doors' and then just announce them shortly before the final production is done, rather than years ahead of time and waiting to see what response they get before taking the plunge.
Maybe in today's world, that doesn't work, I have no idea.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

David
"As I have said before, I think that the real issue is that the marketplace is getting flooded, and that there is only so much money for  us enthusiasts to spend.
IF they choose wisely, I see no reason why Accucraft should not just be building their models 'behind closed doors' and then just announce them shortly before the final production is done, rather than years ahead of time and waiting to see what response they get before taking the plunge."

You are spot on with the marketplace influx and the shrinking funds of the hobby. I guess that the credit cards are still available. 

On the second aspect of "behind closed doors" that would be a disaster....getting feedback on the model well before production is key to a proper operational and decor of a locomotive (as was the case with the J class) otherwise there would be loss money due to improper locomotive or via having to NO SALES.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Charles said:


> David
> 
> On the second aspect of "behind closed doors" that would be a disaster....getting feedback on the model well before production is key to a proper operational and decor of a locomotive (as was the case with the J class) otherwise there would be loss money due to improper locomotive or via having to NO SALES.


Yes Charles, but do you not feel that when entering into a project of any sort, the first thing to do is research, and lots of it.
Books, plans, photos, the internet etc., and then also talk to people who 'might' know or have access to additional information.
At that point the finished product 'should' be quite correct for every rivet counter out there.
Doing a 'half hearted' model, and then wait for the buying public to point out what they see as errors is just not the way to proceed.
For example, looking at the new Accucraft smooth sided lightweight cars, as shown in the graphic examples on the web site, as has been pointed out the N&W should have stripes, but then the PRR cars should not have the stripes extended over the doors!
Little things, but easy to research if you take the time to do it.
If you mean feedback of a technical sort, then perhaps Accucraft should not be producing live steam locomotives at all if they have to rely on that feedback to get it right after all these years!
Oh well, it is what it is!
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

David
I agree that the best starting point is to determine what and when as to what era of a certain locomotive to be developed. Yet, to an untrained eye and/or interpretation of the records relative to the many, many versions through the years of a particular locomotive class can be overwhelming (well, maybe not if one is modeling a USRA engine). Then there is the language barrier relative to what is on paper and what is being done on the production line. The other aspect is the bottom dollar profit margin as to what is not to be on the model either as decor or operational.

I doubt that any manufacturer has a very knowledgeable researcher or staff that can set forth the perimeters of each and every locomotive to be manufactured. Time is money thus compromises can be made (right or wrong for whatever the reason) to get the locomotive to market. Some time research is limited to using a reference model from earlier years that could be incorrect but the compromise at that time was "good enough."

So, having a pilot model review by those "rivet counters" can ensure that nothing critical has been overlooked on the hundreds of items that make up a steam engine. 

As I recall....if you had been asked about the CP Hudson in advance there would could have been changes for the better that other might not be aware of.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

David, You have made a very good point about market saturation and Accucraft has been a big contributor to this saturation. On one hand, they are trying to build what we want, but on the other hand they appear to be over-ordering and then complain when the excess supply doesn't sell out. They may be learning on this latter issue; we'll see.

I would like to think that Accucraft knows how to build successful models but -- at least as far as alcohol fired models are concerned -- they have a spotty history. The alkie fired GS4 was not a great success and the Royal Hudson had to have a boiler redo courtesy of Dick Abbott. Unlike Aster, Accucraft does not have an independent distributor in the USA who troubleshoots the prototype and sends it back for corrections before reservations are due. Yes, Cliff does a lot of the same things but he doesn't control the purse strings and so he can be overruled to the detriment of the model. So I would encourage more rather than less openness so that errors can be identified and rectified before production.

I do worry about the omissions like the striping on the N&W passenger cars -- the more so because we have to buy the cars before we even can be assured that the loco is on its way. Accucraft's record on loco delivery has been irregular with some people waiting years after models are announced -- much like the vapor ware of software days past. Allegheny anyone? Yes, we haven't had to tie up our money in deposits on the loco, but in the case of the N&W J we will have to tie up over $2K to insure having the passenger train to pull when/if the loco arrives. I would much rather be in the position of those modelers who already have their engine (UP, SP, PRR) in hand and can order their passenger cars with little worry. 

So what does one do? Well, I'm still in line for both the cars and the loco, but if Accucraft does not come through in a reasonable time frame with the J, that will be the end of our mutual business. Other customers will have to make that decision for themselves.

Ross Schlabach


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

There are two very different business models here for what is a niche luxury product.

Aster does their own selection, research, design, testing and manufacturing in house, so far as I'm aware. They produce small batches of very well detailed engines and sell every one.

Accucraft selects a prototype, but everything else is done in China, so they're beholden to their manufacturers' business model. Single, big batches, big problems if AC choose a model the market isn't enthusiastic about. Big problems if the factory takes short cuts and produces a model that has to be reworked by the consumer to get it to function. Sometimes scale fidelity takes a back seat, although for the life of me, I can't figure out why the new WSL Heisler looks like a near-spitting image of the prototype, but the 28 ton Shay has some details that never appeared on a Lima product. There are prototypes of both an hour's drive from Union City...Go figure.

So one company has to test the waters before producing a model that it won't have to eat, the other makes a decision and sells nearly everything it can produce.

I guess we get what we pay for. End of rant.


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## csinc (Jun 8, 2008)

How about Accucraft actually delivers the models they announced years ago? I cancelled my order with Sunset Valley for the Alleghany a while back. I will wait till they are delivered now and tested before I consider one. Big Boy out of the blue before the Alleghany, WTF?

GWR Prairie? I got tired of waiting and got a used Barrett kit for cheaper, and is probably a better model.

Black 5? I just ordered the latest one from Wuhu who also renumbered and made me a custom name plate for it. It will be here next week.

Tornado? I remember being told over a year ago it was about done.

Sea Lion? I might be able to commission someone to make me a simple model like that and have it still delivered before the Accucraft one.

Stop announcing stuff and then never delivering it. Announce something, make it, and then move on to the next one. Also maybe talk to Wuhu on the other side of your building and see if they will make some stuff for you. Seems they are quicker? Is anyone actually working in the Accucraft factory? Also get some quality control, I still have a nice fingerprint etched into my Peveril steam dome, and I am tired of burners that are crap and sound like a banshee. Can't you guys knock off the Roundhouse burner? Or buy the ceramic burners from Wuhu?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Joel

/RANT ON
You have what I would considered an idealized view of Aster. Their "small batch" is usually on the order of 100 to 150 engines although for British or European prototypes it may represent two or three very similar versions. There are three "distributors" outside Japan; The UK, USA, and continental Europe [IIRC Germany or Switzerland]. These three individuals have to choose a model, provide ALL the research to Japan, put up $$$ to fund the development, and then commit to purchase a MINIMUM number of models at a price set by Aster Japan. AJ then determines how many additional locomotives will be produced for sales in Japan and the "other two" markets. Aster Japan is at liberty to modify designs and alter details in the name of "production efficiency" without approval of the distributor that is funding the project. To my mind [personal opinion] that is why the Challenger was such a poor kit. If parts are laser cut... there is NO EXCUSE for them to NOT mate to the adjoining pieces. The amount of filing and fitting required to make the valve motion work properly, the axle boxes fit in the frames on the tender, and other stuff was inexcusable. 

I believe the company in Japan is living on its past reputation. There are at least a hundred people who would by almost anything with the BRAND on it and make excuses for why it took 400 hours to build the kit, 20 hours of which was sorting out all the screws nuts, washers and bolts that are in one bag instead of packaged and labeled for each section of the build [the way it was until recent times. This is not a blast at the distributors; I don't think they like the current "business model". 

Regarding David's comment about not many folks seeing the pre-production Aster models run, Hans usually brings his models to Diamondhead, the IE&W Ry meets, and/ or the Summer Steam Up. I have seen videos of the 241-P and the Rebuilt Merchant Navy under test posted by their respective sponsors.

Just like there will always be a market for Ferraris, there will always be a market for GM cars. It is just that the GM of live steam is putting out too many models and they are competing with themselves... to my mind a poor marketing strategy. /RANT OFF


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

CSINC

Is your Barrett Engineering GWR Prairie tank still a kit? IF you are in the USA do not call them for support. They refuse to sell to customers here. Apparently scale is not an important issue, as the Barrett is 10mm and the Accucraft UK is 1:32.

As I have posted many times before [HELLO Rob S.] I think the owner of Accucraft has far too many pies, not enough fingers, and even less funding to spread around. I agree completely that they are doing the live steam hobby in general, and their customers in particular, a great disservice with the current business model in which the order of production is moved around "willy nilly" [as viewed by customers], and an unrealistic production list is posted for public view. This behavior is detrimental to whatever credibility the company has remaining with its long time customers.


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

Dr. Rivet,

You're absolutely correct, I had a naive and idealized view of how Aster does business. Sincere thanks for showing me (and, I'm sure, a few others) a different perspective.

I also think that the pies-and-fingers analogy is pretty apt. Yes, the number of folks who have been brought into small-scale live steam is growing, in no small part thanks to Chinese imports, but live steam is still a niche within garden railways (itself a niche) and the pie is only so large. Read: "market saturation".

<rant>
Is it me, or does it seem like there are more Accucraft models in various stages of the pipeline than are actually available for delivery, with new ones being announced all the time? Unless there is continually expanding capacity in Chinese factories to produce all these models, continually adding new ones to the research and design queue is going to create a backlog somewhere along the way, even where parts (e.g. running gear) are the same as on previous models and no re-tooling is needed.

That's the main part of the problem for me -- the long and continually extending wait times between announcement, appearance of an engineering model and the finished goods being shipped. The other part is the lack of clarity around the process. I can better deal with the frustration of waiting when I better understand what's behind it.
</rant>


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## csinc (Jun 8, 2008)

Dr Rivet said:


> CSINC
> 
> Is your Barrett Engineering GWR Prairie tank still a kit? IF you are in the USA do not call them for support. They refuse to sell to customers here. Apparently scale is not an important issue, as the Barrett is 10mm and the Accucraft UK is 1:32.
> 
> As I have posted many times before [HELLO Rob S.] I think the owner of Accucraft has far too many pies, not enough fingers, and even less funding to spread around. I agree completely that they are doing the live steam hobby in general, and their customers in particular, a great disservice with the current business model in which the order of production is moved around "willy nilly" [as viewed by customers], and an unrealistic production list is posted for public view. This behavior is detrimental to whatever credibility the company has remaining with its long time customers.


The locomotive is not a kit anymore and runs and looks quite good. Nice try though.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Csinc

Glad the loco is together. I will agree that they are good runners when properly assembled and tuned. More than a few of us have tried to purchase kits from Mr. Barrett and been rebuffed. he told one MLS member who is a competent builder of boilers that he could not possibly assemble the kit without assistance from him. I really wanted a GWR City of Truro as a kit.

Just curious, did you get it as a finished loco or build it yourself.


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## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

So some of you guys are complaining that Accucraft is producing too many live steam models.

Do you also complain that your ice cream is too cold?

Thanks
Steve


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Steve,
Yes, sometimes, in the summer, it could be a little colder...don't they realize the mess it creates...have they not tested the ice cream at summer temperatures?....and frankly, there are too many flavors...they're deliberately flooding the market with too many choices...Chocolate or vanilla is all we need for god's sake....and what's with them not allowing me to taste a new flavor before i buy? 

They all must be in the live steam business! **** Commies!!

By the way, when is my J going to be here.....!!!

)
Sam


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys;

Couldn't resist the temptation to toss this one into the thread, sorry. Here in Roanoke, VA we are anxiously awaiting for our J (the real one) to be ready. Should get back into town (under her own steam) around Jan. or Feb. 2015. 

Can't wait to hear that deep and melodic whistle echoing through the valley!

Best,
David Meashey


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, you're missing the point. The problem is being told there are going to be 5 new flavours, when you go to get one you're told there are none yet but a new flavour is on the way.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> a great disservice with the current business model in which the order of production is moved around


 Jim,
While they have been guilty of all the things said on this thread, I have noticed the 'News' on their website gets better every year. Now things are "under consideration" and not "in development" as they were last year. They do seem to be trying to set expectations realistically.
Mind you, they are a long way from getting it right. I'll bet many of the "2014 Release" models don't actually arrive until 2015. [Do we care that 'release' is when the factory finishes making the first 20 ? No - we care when the first 20 arrive at the dealers. ]
Bachmann keeps very quiet and then sprngs new models [if any] at the Toy Trade Show ready for the Xmas shopping season. They usually manage to deliver the models for Xmas too, though I recall one or two 'missed' dates.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, I hate to be proven right, but Accucraft has reverted to its old, maddening habit of switching production plans. No longer is the N&W J shown as being in line for production. Now it is "Under Development" with no production date to be made God knows when!

So now any of us with plans to buy a J have to decide whether to go ahead with my planned purchase of the passenger and have to hope that they come through with the locomotive? This will be a tough decision since Accucraft again can't be trusted to carry through with announced products in a timely basis. Sad!

Ross Schlabach


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Well, obviously not enough people who plan to buy it, actually put in a reservation.
Since the reservation has no deposit, and as far as I can tell, non binding, I would suggest getting 10 or 20 of your friends to all put in reservations so that it will be built.
Then they can just not follow through with the purchase, you get your loco, and then in a year Accucraft will sell the rest off on ebay at a discount for those who can't afford the full price anyway.
Now, that sounds like a win win situation for us all, doesn't it?
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> we strongly urge you to place your reservations now! Remember, deposits are not required! Models are built *only* to the quantities of pre-orders received!


 I did wonder why Robert included this statement. Until now, we've had to put hard cash down on a loco reservation - which I think is a Good Thing. Letting people make a reservation without a commitment is a recipe for disappointment: Accucraft finds that half the people didn't really want to loco in the first place, and the ones who did want it don't get one as the orders disappear.
_Who wants me to "reserve" a J for them?_


> then in a year Accucraft will sell the rest off on ebay at a discount for those who can't afford the full price anyway.


 David,
I understand dry humor, but I doubt most of the readers here, or the Accucraft folk, realise you had your tongue firmly in yur cheek.
After all, we want them to be successful, so they keep making stuff for us. Don't we ?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Pete,
I am glad that you recognised my strange sense of humour!
Of course we want Accucraft to be successful and build the models that we desire, but I'm sorry, as I said before spending time and money on building prototypes and then waiting to see how many orders they get is not the right way as far as I am concerned.
Do the homework first, to see what models people might want.
Only then build a prototype once you establish the need.
I would love to have the Canadian Pacific Selkirk, but as I said as soon as it was announced, it is a very strange choice, and would probably never be produced.
Canadian Pacific is probably a hard sell as they seem to have lots of Royal Hudsons still for sale on their web site, and you would think that that would have told them something.
North America is a very difficult market for model railways in general as there are so many different railroads, and very few locomotives that have 'global' appeal, maybe more so in standard gauge than narrow gauge.
I guess time will tell how it all works out.
Maybe they will be down to building batches of 5 or 10 locomotives and selling them for $12,000.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Pete, they have not required cash deposits on lots of engines, so this is no different. What I really hate is that with this change in scheduling, anybody wanting to have a N&W passenger train now has to take a real leap of faith and buy the passenger cars when they show soon and just hope Accucraft makes the engine in his lifetime!! Not sure I'm that trusting!

Ross Schlabach


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> take a real leap of faith and buy the passenger cars when they show soon


 "When" or "if" ;-)
They have done several runs of the J&S Fn3 coaches, so if these are successful I imagine they will re-run them.
Of course, the obvious thing to do would be to offer a particular livery along with each new loco. So when the Allegheny ships, they offer B&O + C&O coaches. When the J ships they offer the N&W colors. Seems a bit too obvious maybe?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

What I find to be most interesting is the silence of the AC "Marketing Director" would should be in the forefront of the situation and express confusion that has resulted. A sudden change in a product's determined date of issue needs to be dealt with to re-assure those that have expressed interest and prevent those who might have an interest in reservation from not doing so relative to a particular Accucraft locomotive.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Reading these posts confirms my feeling that Accucraft just does not get it. I fail to understand their business plan, if they even have one. I speak from first-hand experience, having been a financial backer and consultant on the Baldwin 4-4-0, and it seems nothing has changed since that project.

So, I act accordingly. When a model interests me, I make the decision to buy ONLY after they are in dealer's hands and have been reviewed for quality (or problems). After all, they are just toys, guys.

Just another 2 cents of mine--

Larry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> buy ONLY after they are in dealer's hands


 I agree Larry. However, you wouldn't have a Belden Falls #13 if we hadn't coughed up our deposits to get EBT #12 on the table.


> What I find to be most interesting is the silence of the AC "Marketing Director"


 My 2 cents - he's new and thought posting here would be a good idea. Cliff (who does read these threads occasionally) had a quiet word and now he is just lurking, never to be heard from again. . . 
I don't blame him. This forum is not exactly a scientific poll. He got the message out, so all the rest is just idle chatter. My posts included.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, I understand your point. Accucraft had my significant $$ (nonrefundable--we tried) for far too long. I'll never do that again with this firm. Also, not that it matters, my mike is one that had been preordered early on by a dealer.

BTW, I expect to be in FMB after DH, thru mid/late Feb, so lets plan to get together to run.

Larry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> BTW, I expect to be in FMB after DH, thru mid/late Feb, so lets plan to get together to run


 Sounds like a plan . . .


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete
I have to disagree, " so all the rest is just idle chatter". The concerns and uncertainty of the customer base voicing their need for assurance cannot be "idle chatter."


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Charles,

In my original post, I was asking the Accucraft rep to explain the process they use. Clearly, it should not be too much to ask for some clarity on when products are announced, developed, manufactured and distributed to their dealer network and then to the customer.

So, let's assume that the 'J' , for example, is now in the announced stage in the life cycle. If we assume it takes 'n' months to develop the prototype, then let us know it's there. Once the prototype is complete and Q/A is finished, then indicate that. If there is a minimum number of "orders". required before being released to manufacturing, then say so. For example, this engine will not be produced until 'x' occurs. If that minimum number for manufacturing is reached, then the engine is produced or it is not. Tell us when you know. If produced, then let the dealers know the product will be shipping on 'n' date.

Sometimes, your process happens as described above. But too often it does not. As the marketing rep, you should try to make sure your customers and dealers understand in what stage a product currently is. I understand some of the difficulties involved, but a better job needs to be done here.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Big concern I see is that there were many people asking for the J to be built both online and offline at shows. Now how many I don't know, were they serious to buy one or just wanted to see it built? Lots of questions there and no one kept track. So they took the plunge to build it just by the vocal response to built one. By the amount of preorders once the prototype was out its very much a disappointment and seems that many were just not serious to buy one. Once all the changes are made and the prototype is all corrected and shown how many more will offer to buy one? That's the real question, if there is no serious interest why build it at all.

On the other page, I started to talk about the E6 more formally, kept records of who wants one and had been showing it off with the color renderings that David Fletcher produced in CAD. With that I have over 20 reservations and growing, granted its half the price but still east coast. Is it because you would rather see a PRR loco or rather buy a lesser expensive model today? After all it is a hobby and our money seems to be worth less each day. Either way that project will still move on and is in the development stage. Hoping for DH for a sample but its going to be close.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

One thing that we all seem to forget is that this is a *business* to the manufacture's, not a hobby. They are going to make decisions based on what is best for their company. Now if they make to many bad decisions that upset their customer base, then that opens the door for more competition as in Wu Hu (or what ever they are called). We look at our prized engine and think of all the past nostalgia and romance of the great steam era of the past. The manufacturer looks at it as how can I make this look the best I can (maybe even run good) for the least amount of cash outlay. They do not get emotional about it until they are eating engines that they have over produced.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

To throw fuel on the "J 611" rumor mill here is what I believe to be true [this week]. I took the re-striped and lettered J to the N&W Historical Society Convention in Roanoke in the last week of June. The model was critiqued by several N&W retired employees who worked in various departments, including one who worked all the excursions as a maintenance troubleshooter. This information, along with comparisons to the J when still on site at the VMT and lots of photos from the N&W HS archives formed the basis for a comprehensive "punch list" of prioritized fixes. This information went back to Accucraft as a large number of annotated images and a set of spreadsheets. This was reviewed by Bing, Cliff, Rob, and a senior production manager from the factory during the Summer steam Up in Sacramento. Nearly all of the requested modifications changes were approved. The two models have returned to China and I expect we will see the "NEW" J running at Diamondhead in January. 

I spoke with Hans yesterday when he brought out the FEF prototype and we agreed that getting a "proper" model to market is a strenuous and often frustrating exercise that would make most people walk away from the project. We got some great video of steam plumes in the cold damp weather. Hopefully one of the guys will post it to YouTube.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Very true Jim, not many people saw the thick book you supplied of changes/corrections. Another reason for the major delay and push back in line is the H8 in production finally along with a good number of the streamline cars, not all roads at once but about 3/4 for delivery end of the December/January and are focusing a lot of the manpower there to bring the production in. Also the 3cyl Shay is due in the same time. Bing told me the factory is running at 100% and still trying to catch up because UK,AU and DE projects that all run parallel to the US projects and all funnel out the same door. Hopefully with more being done in house as far as individual parts and an additional facility to separate the plastic they can work to produce faster and more efficient. I hope, its in the best interest for all us in the hobby.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete Thornton said:


> Cliff (who does read these threads occasionally) had a quiet word and now he is just lurking, never to be heard from again. . .


I'm pretty sure it isn't Cliff, but another member of the staff.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles said:


> Pete
> I have to disagree, " so all the rest is just idle chatter". The concerns and uncertainty of the customer base voicing their need for assurance cannot be "idle chatter."


Charles,
You are suggesting that this MLS group is "the customer base". Surely we are just a small part of the total group who might buy an Accucraft loco?


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone who is running small scale live steam, who isn't part of this group, really should be.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Several seem to want to be the 'voice of authority'. I will only rely on what I see on the company web site, and when that changes, so will my expectations of production. But it is fun to watch the posturing.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

I would them to build a Class M-68.Denver & Rio Grande Western 4-8-4 

D&RGW #1802


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

livesteam53 said:


> I would them to build a Class M-68.Denver & Rio Grande Western 4-8-4
> 
> D&RGW #1802


 



*Get about 3/4 of a million bucks together along with the drawings, sketches, and schematics of the prototype and then sign a guarantee that you will sell about 3/4 of the Loco's made (any paid for but unsold will sit in your garage) and Aster will be happy to do a production run for you.*


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Did you se the 1:20 M68 built?? Its available for sale. Sadly its electric but what a model it is.

http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/HemmeterGalleryM68.html


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Beautiful it is, 
I would have to be built in a 1/32 scale do to the size.


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## wayne Robertson (Oct 27, 2015)

RP3 said:


> Well, I hate to be proven right, but Accucraft has reverted to its old, maddening habit of switching production plans. No longer is the N&W J shown as being in line for production. Now it is "Under Development" with no production date to be made God knows when!
> 
> So now any of us with plans to buy a J have to decide whether to go ahead with my planned purchase of the passenger and have to hope that they come through with the locomotive? This will be a tough decision since Accucraft again can't be trusted to carry through with announced products in a timely basis. Sad!
> 
> Ross Schlabach


Why waste your money on the N&W J loco. It is the ugliest loco, which has no character at all. Just a round tube with a point at the front on wheels


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## wayne Robertson (Oct 27, 2015)

*Accucraft N&W J loco*

Why would anyone waste their money on the Accucraft N&W J loco. It is the ugliest loco, which has no character at all. Just a round tube with a point at the front on wheels.


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