# Floor or raised?



## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Obviously, outdoor lines are viewed from above due to the nature of being on the ground. However, when doing an indoor layout, is it enjoyed best by looking down at it on the floor or up 2 to 3 feet off the gound. I assume maintenance would vote for it being up, but what are all the things to consider? Experiences on both would be appreciated as I begin my thought process on the project.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually there are quite a few out door layouts that are raised up above ground lefel for various reasons and the same reasons may apply to indoor layouts. 

1. Unless you are young and your knees are in perfewct condition, getting up and down is a pain. The quality of your layout will suffer if your knees give out on you and it becomes a struggle to get up and down.
2. Having your layout raised to around thirty inches still gives a great view and also allows you to store items under the layout.
3. Having your layout built on a table or some type of support system will allow you to screw the track in place, run wires under the table etc.

Currently I have a temporary layour around the pool. It is setting on the pool deck. At 56 yrs old my knees and ankles give me fits everytime I have to get down to do anything with it. Thus, the layout isn't getting much attention.

When I am able to start my outside layout, I plan to have it 36 inches above ground level minimum.

Good luck


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Mine is elevated more than most peoples ... small children often need a stepstool or a parent to hold them. (that's not a bad thing!) 

This makes it easier to duck underneath when you have to, allows items to be stored under the layout, and also makes it possible to clear some things like a sink in one corner, and to match the level of a window in the other, just in case we ever run out into the back yard someday!

For most adults, the trains are just slightly below eye level perspective here, which I like. If you sit on a stool at the controls they ARE at eye level, and no ducking down required!

So, I guess I'm probably at the higher extreme... but my vote is still definately for some kind of elevation.

Matthew (OV)


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd vote for eye level when comfortably seated.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Bingo.... eye level or slightly lower for a fuller 3D effect when seated.. 

54 years of age and yes there is a balance in life. 

gg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

mine is at 45 inches up, use the lower part for storage and theres a storage shelf above that will act as the lighting vallience


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

When I built my indoor large scale railway in the early ‘90s, I built tables with 1/2 inch plywood and 1 x 4 pine lumber. Unfortunately the tables were quite heavy and amplified the noise made by the trains. If I had to do it over again, I would build modules using rigid insulation instead of plywood. 

The tables were 48 inches off the floor so that the patio furniture could be stored underneath during the winter months. As the patio table and cushioned chairs make a great railway crew lounge, the height of a new railway would be reduced to something visitors could view from the chairs.

I have a space about 2 x 32 feet along one wall which would make a good layout for switching and testing locomotive power conversions. Shelves or base cabinets would be used to support the modules and hide all the junk that model railroaders accumulate. Enclosed cabinets would also help to muffle the train noise.

I made the mistake of gluing the ballast down. It was difficult to remove the track without damaging it when changes had to be made, and the track and switches never came clean. I would look first for soft foam preformed ballast forms to help muffle the noise and eliminate the piling gravel on the layout. A second option would be a raised fascia across the front face of the tables to hold loose ballast in place. Our club layout uses fascia for this purpose outdoors and it works very well. The fascia is only raised the height of a tie so it does not interfere with close running trains and cars.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Mickey, 

One option to consider is a suspended layout from the ceiling joists. 
This is what I did to take advantage of otherwise useless space under my house. 










If interested, see the article I wrote about its construction that is hosted for me on Greg's web site at the below link. 
Topic "Under house suspended layout article" 

http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/ted-doskaris-vignettes-mainmenu-157/teds-layout-experiences-mainmenu-175 

-Ted


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Elevated is the way to go - but watch out for the 'reach' factor. Unless you got long limbs, it can be a serious pain to reach anything past about 3-3.5 feet, and Murphy's Law dictates that is where the trouble will be.


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

My stuff is on three levels. You can stand under the suspended layout and watch the trains overhead because of an open construction.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Mickey, 

For outdoors raised or ground level is a matter of choice. For indoors I would definately have it on raised benchwork. It is easier to view, easier to work on and protected from being stepped on. This becomes more important as you add detailing to the layout. You don't want ol' Fido running off with an expensive item either or, worse yet, rushing Junior off to the hospital because he swallowed something. 

The most common benchwork height for indoor railroads of any scale is around 40". I wouldn't go below 36" unless there is some special consideration for doing so. Heights above 42" or so will require a stepstool or small ladder to work on comfortably. Some people prefer up to about 48" for a more eye level view and of course your height whether tall or short will influence the best height for you. My outdoor RR is nominal 40" height and while I can work on it for a couple of feet in depth I must use a small ladder to work efficiently on something 3 feet or more in depth. I am 5'-11". 

Whatever height you choose build the benchwork solid and don't skimp on material. It is after all the foundation upon which your empire sits and the better it is the better everything will operate. 









*Here's my outdoor RR at 40" (nominal) height. Helen is 5'-10" tall.*


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## AppleYankee (Jan 3, 2008)

My indoor layout height is 50 inches. I used Sievers Bench work and covered it with 3/8 inch pegboard. I used "O" scale cork road roadbed (three strips) under the track. The combination of roadbed and pegboard reduces the track noise considerably.

Early Construction:









Cork Roadbed 














viewing height











Jan


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## Mike O (Jan 2, 2008)

Mine is on built up benchwork and ranges from 36" to about 72". How high to make it depends somewhat on your height. I used armpit level as the baseline for the height of the rest of the layout. That way I can comfortably reach the back of the layout in the area that is armpit level. Areas further up from the floor require a step stool to work on. Try to keep everything within three feet of the edge of the layout. Any more than that and you will need access hatches or ways to get on top of the layout to work on it. 

I put a good size loop and Christmas display on the floor around the Christmas tree and would not want to work on the floor for a permanent layout. 

Mike


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

My indoor layout is 40" off the ground... I think its a good level when sitting on a stool, and working...

Standing I can reach just about every corner...

I built it strong, so if I have to I can crawl on it to work...

I did have it all against one wall, but couldn't reach sections without climbing on it...

so one day I got tired of that, and ran a saw down it and made it loop around the room...
now it has a center access way... only bummer about this is the duck under I now have...
I am going to make that a lift out section very soon...

I also have 2 small sections I can POP out of from under the layout to get to the back corners...
Scenery hides a hole where there is no benchwork in these spots...


Also make sure you can reach all the track and switches... that's the main things you need to be able to get too...

as for the knee factor, I had great knees until last year when I blew my ACL and tore cartlidge playing baseball...

I'm only 37 yrs old...

do yourself a favor and build it raised up..


Philip


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

If you consider an overhead layout, be aware that some visitors may be taller than you. A section of Ric Golding’s Kaskaskia Valley Railway is indoors, and one track traverses an aisle about 6 feet above the floor. The roadbed is made from two pieces of 3/4 inch plywood laminated together.

While attending the Annual Fall Railway Operations, I managed to walk into the edge of that 1 1/2 inch thick roadbed and gave my head a terrible whack. After reaching up to rub it, my hand came down covered in blood. A second or two later the blood began to running down my face.

Unfortunately there were a kitchen full of ladies between me and the washroom and I really didn’t want to walk through them looking like something out of a chainsaw movie. I did find an alternate route to the washroom however, and was able to stop the bleeding and clean up without scaring anyone.


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

As Richard Smith showed, elevated railroads are not necessarily confined to indoors.









- & like Philip, I've also suffered some *serious knee injuries *







- a broken right kneecap







back in Oct. 2003, & a slip-&-fall accident on black ice early 2005 (resulting in torn ligaments in the *same knee!). *







I was fortunate to have *excellent *surgeons both times (I consider myself lucky just to be able to walk normally - & I swim 3 or more miles a week, frequently bike 18 ~ 30 miles when the weather's decent, have biked up to 61 miles in a single day after the 2 surgeries - but the right knee is still very sensitve to pressure, kneeling is something I try to avoid as much as possible.









I had a small indoor layout; but once I bought my first live-steamer (which, even with RC control, requires a good bit of "hands-on" for burner adjustment, lubrication, checking water level, etc.), an outdoor layout was necessary. The rest of the family was not enthused at the prospect of having the lawn dug up; I'll also admit a lack of enthusiasm on my part for the amount of kneeling that a conventional ground-mounted garden railway would have entailed.







Then when surveying our backyard one day for "work-around" ideas to this dilemma, "I saw the light!"







- I could suspend a good portion of the track off our existing chain-link fence, over an existing hedge! The following 2 photos show the some of the earliest construction...





















The roadbed is HDPE decking supported by lengths of perforated angle iron for rigidity - here's a another couple of "under-construction" photos...














- On this stretch here, I actually had to cut down into







the hedges to keep the grades within reason (our property is partially on a hillside)...



















That same section (which I refer to as "Hedge Cut"







) shortly after completion...











- & after a particularly rainy spring & subsequent explosive







hedge growth! (The effect looks remarkably like Maine Central's line through Crawford Notch in New Hampshire, running along a mountainside).





















- Elsewhere, the railroad is supported by steel U-channel garden stakes (4 feet long), driven 2 feet into the ground; this is sturdier than it looks (it's survived 5 Massachusetts winters so far!).











Besides making operation a real pleasure







, having the railroad elevated makes taking dramatic low-angle photos easy!



























The basic trackplan is a bent "dogbone" shape for the mainline - this Garden Metal Models bridge unbolts to permit lawnmower access inside the "east-end" loop...











While this LGB bridge has a hinge installed at one end to permit lifting it "drawbridge" style for easy access inside the "west end" loop...










The hedges also grew up around the original mainline construction, affording "ready-made" scenery!
































- & this past year, I began adding ballast in selected areas - here's "before"







...












- and "after!"






















In short - although it was more work & expense







to build elevated, the results were well worth it!

















Tom


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Tom, your railway reminds me of this picture taken in Britain.

 
I always liked the idea as it has the best of both worlds: a raised railway and greenery.


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## Guest (Jan 31, 2009)

Apart from the question if it shall be a "walk-around" layout or a "sitt-n-watch", there is one very important point to consider: 
What do you want to show? 
in the small scales it is simple. birdseye perspective it has to be. 
in the G-scales we have three options: from underneath (the overhead layouts) 
they do not lend themselves much to advanced modelling. 
i personally think this option is only for very large rooms, to see the trains in the distance. 
the birdseye perspective: interesting if the theme of the layout concentrates on complicated track-systems like shunting yards. 
disadvantage is the fact, that half of what can be seen are roofs of trains and houses. 
the (scale)eye-level perspective: ideal for rivetcounting on bashed or scratchbuilt rolling stock. ideal for scratchbuilt houses (with interiour), ideal for foreground staging scenes with figures and assecories. 
disadvantage - while one does not see much from the track, one notices the unnatural height of rails. 

for me the best walkaround (indoor) layouts should have two levels. one about table high and one about two foot and a half above that. 
with some eye guiding feautures that should give the most interesting experience for visitors.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Tom,

It's hard to say enough good about your solution and construction techniques! Running the track above the hedges was inspired, IMHO.

Before I realized health issues would force me indoors, I was going to build on a sloping piece of waste yard overgrown with bush honeysuckle, but instead of clearing it all off, I was going to thread the track around some of it, hoping to achieve a sort of 'instant timber' effect. That all went away.

As for heights, my sooner-to-be built benchwork will be 36" off the floor x 36" wide, i.e. the common width of light steel shelving. Shelves underneath. Altogether less hassle that way. And open framework 1 x4's so I can get a 'below grade' effect.

Les


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Les, if you are considering the tin-plate style of bolt together metal shelving please consider the vinyl shelving instead.

The bolt together tin-plate shelving is a pain to assemble even with a battery powered screwdriver. The braces and the shelves are easy to dent, bend, scratch, and they will rust over time even in a fairly dry basement.

The new vinyl shelving taps together with a rubber mallet in minutes. Felt pads can be stuck to the wide feet to level the bays on uneven floors. These shelves are stronger than the tin-plate ones, won’t dent, bend, scratch or rust even if you spray wash them. If you ever have to move them, they disassemble quickly with a rubber mallet and pop together to form a rigid box with the risers inside.

I am currently getting rid of 15 bays of metal shelving and replacing it with vinyl. The costs of the good vinyl shelves at Wal-Mart or Costco is about the same or less than the tin-plate ones. Wal-Mart sometimes has them on sale. So if you are going to buy a number of them, ask when the next sale is scheduled.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Paul,

Thank you for letting me know of these shelves. It has been my experience that polymer shelves, drawers, etc then to 'cold flow' over time, and/or become brittle and crack. These of which you speak may be improved.

The thing is, and the reason I settled on steel shelves, is that I have a number of them. You're entirely right about some cheap ones being uselessly fragile. Mine are the heavy-gauge ones meant for industrial or at least, light manufacturing applications.

I will, be assured, go to Wallymart and give them a look.

Les


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Mik, you have touched on one of my favorite topics - how to construct raised level large scale layouts. While your question was directed towards indoor applications, the variety of replies re. outdoor pikes is always great to see and I'll bet are helpful to a lot of folks.


I have been planning a raised level indoor pike for a few years now and am getting closer to construction. The complicating factor for me is that my wife and I use our 28'x28'  basement extensively.  We have a library & entertainment center in one side (the stairs to the main floor act as a divider) that houses a 52" HDTV home theater with all the requisite electronics and speakers, and several sections of 6 ft high bookshelves. We have our home office on the other side with desks and file cabinets, the laundry area in the back behind the entertainment area, and the HVAC and HWH along with our storage area is behind the office area.  In short - there really isn't any separate place for trains.


So I devised a plan to install a shelf around the entire perimeter of the basement at a height of 54" high from the floor (which is reasonably level).  The shelf will vary from 18" deep at the narrowest to 36" deep at the widest point (where my main town will be) with most of it being in the 24" to 28" range.  The railroad will be double tracked for the entire perimeter and the rear track will be raised higher than the front track, except where the crossover between the two is located. 


My plan is to use wall-mounted heavy duty shelf brackets such as the 22" model from Knape and Vogt, (or a similar model made by  Stanley) which they claim will hold 1,000 lbs. per pair when mounted per their instructions (which I have not yet seen). My plan is to lag the brackets into the 2x4 studs (24" O.C.) that I will use to frame the inside of the exterior basement walls (which are poured concrete) in which I'll run the electric, cable and telephone lines, and attach pre-finished wood or composite panelling. I have not settled on exactly what I will use for shelving; 3/4"plywood was my initial choice because I did not want it too thick that it raised the surface of the RR too much higher and affect my easy access (for construction and maintenance) and viewing. If I used an open frame type of construction (using 1x4s), it would make grade construction easier but could become too high.  I'll use a lot of foam for scenery construction and even with all of the trains and buildings I plan to use (already have them), I don't see where I'll even get close to the weight rating of the shelf brackets.


The chosen height and depth of shelving allows me to use the space underneath for all of the activities mentioned above. When seated at my desk, a 54" high shelf will not interfere, and even provides a place to mount a task light over the desk. The file cabinets all fit under the 54" height; the large widescreen TV fits under the shelf and still permits viewing at eye level when seated in our recliners or on the sofa.  The 6 ft library shelves will have to be replaced by units that will fit under the 54" height but that is no problem - they are old and were cheap anyway.  The problem areas are the electrical service panel (load center), the utility sink in the back (we stand at that sink so 54" will not work there), the rear exterior door (to an areaway) which will require a lift out bridge section, and the furnace / hot water heater.  At 54" high, access to the load center (located in one corner) will be restricted unless I curve the shelf away from it, which I need to do anyway to handle the 6.5 and 8 ft diameter curves.  In front of the furnace & HWH I figure I can build some kind of roll-away sections that can be removed should something more than changing a filter be required at the furnace.


Al


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Here is my plan:
 










Here a 3D view:









 
The entertainment area  / library on the left; office on the front right, furnace & HWH back behind the office (I'll build a "wall" using folding doors around that).









 


This shows the laundry area in the left rear (with the utility sink in the corner - that's an unresolved problem because it cannot easily be moved), the outside door. 
This is all actually to scale but I still think there will need to be adjustments once I actually start to build it.


Al


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Al, 

The plan looks quite good. Just one suggestion for your consideration... 

It looks as though you are designing the RR mostly as a "run and let 'em go" type. If that is the case you might want to consider double tracking that rear bridge. It'll be a real bottleneck should you ever want to have two trains at once running around the layout unattended.


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Richard, My apologies for not making the drawing better. That bridge is actually a double decker. Look at the 3D renderings.  There are two completely separate loops of track in this plan and the outer loop is elevated almost 10" to 12" higher than the inner loop.  The bridge at the front (the back is where the door to the outside is located) of my basement is there to span a gap between shelves on either side.  The area at the bottom of the stairway needs to be 3 feet wide at the minimum so I did not have room to do more than a single width of track there.  Yes I know - the outer loop of track appears to be floating in the air on the 3D pictures because I have not figured out how to add topography under the track at that height off the floor. (RR-Track is quite vague on how to do that...).


Al


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Al McEvoy on 02/02/2009 8:25 PM
Richard, My apologies for not making the drawing better. That bridge is actually a double decker. Look at the 3D renderings. There are two completely separate loops of track in this plan and the outer loop is elevated almost 10" to 12" higher than the inner loop. The bridge at the front (the back is where the door to the outside is located) of my basement is there to span a gap between shelves on either side. The area at the bottom of the stairway needs to be 3 feet wide at the minimum so I did not have room to do more than a single width of track there. Yes I know - the outer loop of track appears to be floating in the air on the 3D pictures because I have not figured out how to add topography under the track at that height off the floor. (RR-Track is quite vague on how to do that...).


Al 



Ahhh! Now I see the light! Very nice!


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

YOu guys have to get Joe (steam maker) to post some photos of his layout on here.... it's a lot like that, and has three tracks, two parallel and one elevated, around his rec room. 

The Slate Creek (mark I) was a lot like that too.... 

http://home.earthlink.net/~mbrown31/oldscry.htm


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Given that description, I would love to see Steam Maker's indoor layout and I'm sure Mickey would as well. Anyone know how to contact him?


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## steam maker (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi all 
Try this and see if it works. Let me know 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLn2-EE-H5E&feature=channel 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ondjnq6IqFs&feature=channel 

I need to get updates made for you guys. 

Hi Matt! - any new pics of Slate Creek? 

Joe


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By steam maker on 02/05/2009 10:14 PM
Hi all 
Try this and see if it works. Let me know 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLn2-EE-H5E&feature=channel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ondjnq6IqFs&feature=channel


I need to get updates made for you guys. 

Hi Matt! - any new pics of Slate Creek? 

Joe 






Activating links


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## steam maker (Jan 11, 2008)

Thank you, Vsmith 
That is easier than to copy and paste 

Joe


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## steam maker (Jan 11, 2008)

I have pics on this site, of my room - but I will try and get new ones


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Paul Norton on 01/30/2009 10:04 AM

"If you consider an overhead layout, be aware that some visitors may be taller than you. A section of Ric Golding’s Kaskaskia Valley Railway is indoors, and one track traverses an aisle about 6 feet above the floor. The roadbed is made from two pieces of 3/4 inch plywood laminated together.

While attending the Annual Fall Railway Operations, I managed to walk into the edge of that 1 1/2 inch thick roadbed and gave my head a terrible whack. After reaching up to rub it, my hand came down covered in blood. A second or two later the blood began to running down my face.

Unfortunately there were a kitchen full of ladies between me and the washroom and I really didn’t want to walk through them looking like something out of a chainsaw movie. I did find an alternate route to the washroom however, and was able to stop the bleeding and clean up without scaring anyone. " 
Oh the DRAMA. First off the roadbed is only two 1/2 inch pieces of plywood laminated together. Alignment of trackage was required after the Canadians left. Secondly, he was given fair warning that I was 5 foot 9 and it was built for my height. He was warned it was a hard hat area. We would have had him wear one, but the floor joist are only 7 feet above the basement floor and we were afraid he'd disturb the settling of the house. I just don't know what to say, if you give him support he will probably use it against me in court. Truely an International incident. You know in the old days they used leeches for blood letting, said it was good for the health. I offered this free and he wanted to bleed on the rugs and scare the dispatcher and yardmaster.

Rumor is, he may be back for a second blood letting this Fall. ;-) Pictures to follow if it happens again.


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

[No message]


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If'n it a been me that was injured I would'a headed directly into the kitchen, moaned and collapsed on the floor right smack dab in front of the lot of 'em! I can only fantasize about a bevy of beautiful female types converging on me in care about my welfare!








BTW: How many of you male types are gonna claim I am wrong about my description of the ladies???? Any of you that foolish?


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

My layout is on several levels. One level is at 5' 6". I bought a kit that allows you to construct a sign with a message of your choice. It flashes, turns various letters on-and-off, and performs other stunts to attract attention.

As far as I know, I'm the only person to bump his head on the layout in spite of the sign. Many, many times...


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

My indoor railroad is built on 3 levels, the lowest one is 50 inches off the floor, below eye level for a 6'4" guy. This is high enough to be able to get underneath it easily although there are no actual duck unders except to get to access hatches. The next level is 59" from the floor and the top level is 72" off the floor. This requires a two step step ladder so that I can get above it to look down a little. 

It is all build with L-girder framework and Homosote panels and roadbed. The ballast is glued but I only glued most of it 12 years after I laid the track so I could be pretty sure that I wasn't going to need to move any of it. The glue isn't really strong so that it can be broken up easily if needed. 

Pics at http://www.girr.org/girr/mtn/mtn.html


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 02/09/2009 5:21 PM
BTW: How many of you male types are gonna claim I am wrong about my description of the ladies???? Any of you that foolish?

















Me.







What *I *see happening if you did that is, those lovely ladies, being married women ... I can see one filling the mop pail with cold water while two more got you up far enough to stick your head in it.... While a fourth brought a roll of toilet paper from the head... Yeah, Semp, ol' buddy, they've had you on your feet in 30 seconds. Just my take.









Les

Chuckle.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Be neat to watch tv and have a train run by over it!


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 02/09/2009 5:21 PM


If'n it a been me that was injured I would'a headed directly into the kitchen, moaned and collapsed on the floor right smack dab in front of the lot of 'em! I can only fantasize about a bevy of beautiful female types converging on me in care about my welfare!








BTW: How many of you male types are gonna claim I am wrong about my description of the ladies???? Any of you that foolish?















LOL


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 02/09/2009 8:26 PM
Be neat to watch tv and have a train run by over it!

Well I don't know Jerry. I have a hard enough time now trying to hear the slurred and whispering dialog that unfortunately seems to be the rage in so many contemporary movies (e.g., try watching "Martian Child" and see if you can hear John Cusack's lines without kicking up the volume pretty high). I want to install sound in most of my locos and I think I will be able to hear them all the way around my basement. ON the other hand, I bought a miniature color video camera & transmitter at ECLSTS in 2007 and it may be cool to watch the "engineer's perspective" on the 52" widescreen. 

Al


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, but if you turn the volume up enough to hear the dialog during the entertainment portion of a TV show, you'd better be mighty quick with the thumb on the MUTE button or you'll be blown out of your chair by the incessant, nervous, insistent, discordant non-melodic "music" (and I use that term loosely) that is trying to drown out the words of the haranguing, loudmouthed, bellowing pitch-makers screaming their lies.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Al,

I have the same problem with hearing dialog around, through and over that stupid, blasting noise called music. My son bought me one of those amplifier doodads with about 8 or a dozen speakers--surround sound--that's it. For Christmas. I had him put two of those smaller speakers right behind my head. Now I hear louder mumblings and grunts and blasts of music fit for a Babylonian fertility rite, only louder. Still have only the vaguest idea of the dialog. I've given up watching movies on TV. If I want to see something, I wait 'till it comes out on DVD. Seems clearer.

Les


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

There are two tv's in the basement. A big one in the front and a smaller one in the shop. They are usually on when I'm working on the layout or rolling stock. Half and half when runnning trains. TV's are not usually on during an ops session, unless it is football season and then they are on. Ahh, that's not always true, sometimes they are on to the Country Music Channel for a little music between the switching and yard duties. You can always tell how good the ops session is going by how many know the score better than where the trains are. Cold or rainy days seem to attract lots of football fans. Nice day and the ops go better than the ball game. 

Jan is the big football fan. If I told her she couldn't have the game on during an ops session and that would end the trains running at this place on a Sunday afternoon. ;-)


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