# Sound systems?



## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

I guess one of the main features of the large scale is the sound. I see a number of systems on the market, what to get? Are they versatile? That is, can you run diesel and steam off one system. I have a fairly well know brand for my N guage.......ho-hum! The diesel doesn't sound like diesel and the chuff is steady unless you adjust by hand. I've seen videos on YouTube of some G diesels that absolutely sound real! Also, I know often one gets the "starter" system, then the add-ons cost a fortune. Do you add sound, or buy one with it, in terms of price. Lest I bore someone with my questions, maybe there's a thread here somewhere.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I use Phoenix Sound, lots of diesel and steam sounds. You can check the sounds out on their website:  Sounds


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

There are several large scale sound systems offered. A few that I know of are Phoenix, QSI, Sierra, Dallee and Protosound. I choose QSI because of its current plug and play compatibility with Aristocraft locomotives and soon to be compatibility with USA Trains stuff. I swear by QSi because it's price point is where I can afford to buy two sound boards for the price of one Phoenix board. Some will say Phoenix is the best, but it costs almost twice QSI. QSI is full digital sound and the revs (or chuffs) correspond with the rpm of the motors. You can control bells, whistles, separately with a controller. Some G scale equipment comes ready with factory installed speakers others do not. Protosound is available pre installed on MTH 1:32 locomotives. Sound is an add on for USA and Aristocraft products and most LGB. Some LGb comes with sound already installed.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I have Phoenix P5 sound in two of my steam engines. It's a great system that you can customize ALL of the sounds to your liking through the computer interface. No need to take the engine apart to program. It's all done with a plug-in interface cable, through the computer to the card. Diesels are just as easy to do. Great system!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You're really stirring the pot! These are all subjects that get people's dander up

There used to be two main players in the high end larga scale sound market, Soundtrax/sierra and Phoenix. Sierra is gone, Phoenix just came out with a new card 


Phoenix cards have very high quality sounds and offer a high degree of control. They have software that lets you change any phoenix card to any soundset


The new player on the G scale block is QSI. QSI makes a decoder that includes sound. So a QSI card will control your DCC functions, or your battery functions, while also providing very high quality sounds. To me QSI is a no-brainer-it's cheaper than buying a decoder and then a phoenix card, and if you get the optional airwire card and an airwire throttle you have all the capabulities of DCC on track power or on batteries. QSI also lets you set any sound file in any card, so you can change a diesel to a steamer. With both Phoenix as QSI you need some software and inetrface cable. 


There are a couple other choices that are less expensive. Dallle makes sound cards that are inexpensive and sound that way. People like their diesel better than thier steam, from what 've seen--I've never actually tried one. 



A small company called "Small Scale Railways" makes a good sunding, inexpensive card. It sodns good but the chuff stops whent he whistle blows. You can hear samples at their site


MRC makes both a diesel and a steam soundcard for very little money, but I've never tried one


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Bill, Bill, Bill, Bill,
Now you like starting crap for a new guy!!!! he he he







just kidding of course... all of the above sound systems are good with QSI being the best sound in my opinion, i have a bunch in some of my track powered diesels and they sound great for plug and plays. now saving the best for last is DCS sound and control..in all my steamers cause it also controls the smoke units, witch in g scale mth are the best ive seen... i thought i reed you wanted a mallet so take a look and listen to my dc operating DCSed mallets you be the judge.. and no im not the big guy......
Nick


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There are several other good sound systems, mostly DCC. 

You need to break your choices up into categories. 

If you run DCC, then Phoenix, QSI, ESU, Digitrax and others make what you want. 

If you run DC, then it depends on features you want, like being able to trigger sounds with a magnet between the rails. 
Phoenix, Dallee and a couple of European brands do this. 

If you run an R/C system, then it depends on what your R/C system can control, trigger inputs, DCC triggering, etc. 

I would suggest learning what "control system" you want to use first, and then picking the available sound systems that will interface to it. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I bought a separate sound tender for my LGB starter set and the chugging is sync'd with the voltage I believe. I trigger the bell and the whistle with the use of magnets set on the track orientation of which triggers either the bell or whistle reed switch on the tender. 

Question: With the Phoenix system these noises can be triggered at will with the right control and remote (DCC). IN ADDITION to this can one install track magnets and reeds in the sound car to "automatically" trigger the whistle and/or bell . Point in case would be the approach to the train station (bell). approach to a crossing (whistle). 

Naturally I watch the automatic part, however would want to push a button to scare the dog (or my wife) when I need to.... 

gg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have use four of the sound systems available. Dalle,Phoenix, QSI and Serra. The best so far are the QSI and the Phoenix. I use the Phoenix on DCC with NCE 408 boards when installing DCC in non plug and play units. The reason for using the Phoenix boards is I had quite a few left over when converting my plug and play with QSI. As they say you get what you pay for. Later RJD


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Nick, Nick, you some guy! Double mallets with Vandys! Be still my heart! I don't hear so good, how about you send me your address. I have my cousins Vinny and Guido come to your place and listen.......say about 2 or 3 AM....so as not to disturb. This seems to be a main component in getting into the G scale venue. A lot of this info, the manufacturers aren't telling. I see the value in selecting the control system first. This stuff is expensive....for me, and I'd rather make a semi-informed decision than just what sounds like a good deal.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Bill, stuff is expensive for all of us,what i would say is buy your loco and a little track and run it as is and enjoy then read all the threads can and make your pick. they all have there own advantages, you just need to figure out whats best for you!!!! but at the end of the day enjoy the trains...
Nick..
P.S. If your hearings not so good why bother with sound? he he he just buy some extra track with the $ you saved from the sound system.....


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Cap'nBill. 
Personally I don't like sound at all. 
You are now probably aware I make R/C control systems. 
I have no financial interest in sound systems at all. Other than to make my R/C stuff work with what is on the market. 

I have used and recommend Sierra (no longer made), Phoenix (both the P2k2 & the P5) & Dallee. 
Dallee is OK for the money. I can say the diesel sounds are not bad, but the steam I just don't like. I guess I am spoiled with full digital sounds. 
The P2k2 (now being replaced with the P9) will work with any RCS/EVO systems but it does cost more than the P5. 
Currently the P5 has only two triggers and requires the P5T add on pcb for extra functions. 
Phoenix will shortly have a new version of the P5 with 4 triggers which means they will not need the P5T. This will result in a considerable saving in cost. 
I like Phoenix. They only need one piece of hardware for any sound. This lowers inventory cost for dealers. They are highly programmable for steam or diesel or electric etc. The volume control is manual using a spring loaded centre off SPDT switch. 
The P5 is Plug'n'nPlay with the RCS BASIC series and EVO B series. No wiring other than the speaker connection. 
Like all sound systems they do benefit from good quality speakers and well designed enclosures. 
There is one other low cost steam and diesel sound system available from MyLocosound. These are not digital. However they do work well but are really for small locos and not the big locos mainly sold in the USA. Ideal for critters. 

I have no experience with QSI at all. Other than their H0 versions which I quite like. Whilst they do "work" (as in they will ramp up and down) with pretty well most R/C control systems there is no control of the whistle and bell etc. They really only work properly with DCC or AirWire and the G Wire receiver. Perhaps one day they can be made compatible with other systems. Unless you are running a QSI on DCC or AirWire they should only be powered by a linear controller. Otherwise the DCC component can become "confused" and lose programming. 

Once again, keep asking questions and Caveat Emptor.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Tony, very good and well appreciated. 

Note that I love "stereo". and the doppler effect of a passing object. 

DCC is best here yes? 



gg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GG on 01/05/2009 6:46 PM
Tony, very good and well appreciated. 

Note that I love "stereo". and the doppler effect of a passing object. 

DCC is best here yes? 



gg



I think Mr Polk would disagree with that last comment.









He claims the new TE REVOLUTION is "Better than DCC", so I guess you need to ask him that question.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The QSI has controllable doppler shift on the horn/whistle. 

I do have experience with the QSI. (Tony for a person who has no experience with the QSI, you have a very strong opinion on it! )









Regards


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

I just sit there and make all the noises myself... My wife and kids get really annoyed when I'm not running the trains..


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

umm.... 

I have a parallel issue and can use this to justify the cost and real estate of "trains and sounds" with my wife yes? Issue however is how do I explain the "diesel smell"? 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Indigestion?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg, 
I do have experience with the H0 QSI stuff. 
I like it. 
I am advised (mainly by you) the LS version works very similarly to the H0 version. 
My comment about using only linear DC is common to all DCC systems running in analogue mode.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Dave F on 01/05/2009 7:05 PM
I just sit there and make all the noises myself... My wife and kids get really annoyed when I'm not running the trains..


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just yanking your chain Tony! 

There is extensive control on analog, mostly with just reversing the direction. The Quantum Engineer will do that for track power, and I have set up a couple of relays to reverse the polarity fed from an Aristo accessory controller for remote. I suspect that would also work with your contollers. 

There is an analog manual for the QSI and it's a BIG manual, so I would not sell the analog control short. From your statement, I'm guessing you have not used any of the analog controls on the HO unit? 

It's not great, but it's inexpensive and there was a lot more than just the bell and whistle, I was surprised. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

LOL


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
Please feel free to yank away. It just gives me a legitimate reason to explain how the RCS systems work. 

Actually I have used the QSI analogue controls in H0. 
I even have a program that is specific to the H0 version. It sets up an idle voltage on the track so that the H0 sound stays alive. 
I can easily trigger the long whistle, the short whistle and the bell. 
Any other analogue sounds will require the QSI trackside trigger device. 
I can program the H0 QSI sound in analogue mode with judicious use of the function triggers on the RCS TX-24 handpiece. 
I know the RCS system can trigger QSI using the same method as I do with H0. 

The reason I have not bothered promoting the RCS capabilities with QSI for LS is because when there is enough voltage available for LS use, the idle voltage is too high and the loco will start moving. This may be able to be changed in the future by making the idle voltage adjustable.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

QED my friend.... 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hehehe!!!


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Good stuff guys. The problem with being a beginner and looking at a control/sound method is that everyone, even the manufacturers, explain everything at a much higher skill level. This often leaves newcomers either too frustrated and scares them away from the hobby, or just gives them an incredibly steep learning curve to deal with. To the seasoned veteran, it may sound redundant to have to hear the basics multiple times, but it would also help the newcomers to the hobby adjust to things faster, giving the seasoned pros a wider and more appreciative audience. This is actually a problem that is shared with most hobbies. Pick up a hobby magazine about something you know nothing about and you will think you are reading Greek! I don't know enough about the various control systems to help you Bill, but, check out Ray's site on DCS. It is a cheap system and can do everything you can possibly throw at it. Not to mention, you can download updates for it to keep it a current system. Watching Ray explain it in his videos was great, he explains things very well. What Ray has done to make DCS easy for beginners to understand is what every manufacturer should be doing. It's much easier to buy a product when you are aware of what all it can do. Otherwise you are just taking a costly financial gamble. Good luck on your choice though and hope to see you at some of these upcoming TN events! ^^ 

-Will


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think I will concentrate on making a good explanation on my web site, and then point people there for FAQs.... instead of writing it new every time in a forum, I can just keep fine tuning it until it's really good. 

The basic problem is that people want simple answer to a complex question. There are so many choices out there, it's just not simple. 

If you try to give unbiased, objective information, there is just no short story. 

Regards, Greg


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