# Does anyone have more info on this NCE throttle?



## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

This looks great!

QSI NCE GWIRE PRO CAB WIRELESS THROTTLE

Product Details 
This is the next generation wireless G scale Throttle loaded
with features at a comparable cost to the current Air-Wire™
products!
Most User Friendly Format!
Runs 4 locomotives or consists at one time!
Operates 29 Function Controls!
Operates Stationery Decoders without any special accessories!
Instant Push Button Control of Locomotive Momentum!
Large 32 Character, Easy to Read, LCD Display gives you
Address, Speed Direction and Active Functions and more!
Discreet Push Button Control of all the Popular Locomotive
Control Functions!
Thumb Wheel or Push Button Control of Locomotive Speed
and Direction!
Rugged, Quality Ergonomic Design!
Compatible with al QSI,l Quantum, DC/DCC Sound Power
Decoders and all Air-Wire™ Receivers/Decoders!
Operates also as a DCC Pro-Cab for all NCE, DCC Systems. 
Here is the link


http://www.rldhobbies.com/ProductImages/qsi/GWire%20ProCab%20Promo[1].bmp


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Sorry I grabed the link to the picture of the throttle not the main info. Here is the correct link:

http://www.rldhobbies.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2141


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like my NCE wireless pro cab, but different label. Since the NCE pro cab already works on 900 MHz, just some simple software changes to transmit to AirWire. 

I use NCE wireless, and love the product and the company, so sounds great. 

Regards, Greg


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

How about the display is lit also.

I talked to Josh at Tony's Trains and they are the ones that got NCE to produce it and it should be in in about 30 days. They wanted something better for their users of the QSI/G-wire sets. If you ever had to call and deal with CVP on a maint. item on the t-9000 like me you would know what I mean. Its like dealing with cable tv customer service. Jake


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

I think this will be an excellent combination, QSI and NCE. I am very excited about this. I just recieved a QSI magnum board for my older U25 and hoping QSI will get thier USAT board for my (opened and waiting) GP7/9 on the market soon! I like what Tony is doing. I'm also hoping that the NCE repeater system will work with this throttle for really long range battery operations or trouble spots. I would love to run traditional DCC outdoors but I started collecting track a long time ago so it is all brass. I like to think QSI, NCE and battery will get me a complete, dependable, expandable system. Here's to the future of large scale trains and hopefully a better economy!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

RIrail: Just as info I just finished up with one of our club members laying 160 ft of brass track and using the NCE wireless DCC system. Right out of the chute we had 20 volts to the rail all over the layout. Some of his track was brand new some used and not so cleaan. Ran his RS3 and my USAT S4 with no problems. I also use the NCE wireless system and really like it for operating all my QSI equip locos. So far have 25 units operating with QSI. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The throttle will transmit DIRECTLY to the loco, just like the other AirWire systems. 

So you will not have the ability to have several base stations and unlimited range. 

Why, if you will run track power, do you want to spend $80 more per loco for less capability? 

Run DCC to the track.... 

Regards, Greg


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

The NCE gwire hammerhead and the qsi motor/sound decoder is what I've been waiting for for a while now!! Sweet setup.... 
However, why is QSI ripping us off on the Gwire board?? 108 bucks now?? come on... its a $44 dollar chip (not in bulk) and no more then 5 bucks for the rest of the parts. Maybe its time we start building these ourselves... 

-Ray


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Greg, I thought the same thing g-wire =$96 + battery = $40 totals $136 extra or equal to another QSI card. But what I did gives me the best of both I have the engines that I usually take to other layouts with the g-wire and no battery. This way if they have DC I can run or if they have DCC I can run, both ways using the g-wire and T-9000 using the power off the rails of both. On my home layout I have NCE DCC and just switch off the G-wire and use the NCE wireless controller unless I want to use or need to use two controllers for switching operations in the yard then I will turn on that G-wire. I have 7 engines with the g-wire and 12 without all QSI and have had no issues other then senior moments when I forget or transpose an engine number. I even have a double door box with 2 18v 3.0 batteries for a total of 6 amps for the g-wire units for I go to the only layout that I know that is pure battery. 

Ray, I agree you now we need some of the electrical experts to look at and come up with a how-to. Jake


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

So let me get this straight in laymens terms? 

I ca now get a NCE controlelr that will broadcast both to a Gwire reciever running a QSI decoder or an Airwire reciever (either running on batteries) AND to a "traditional" DCC equiped loco running from track power? Giving me the flexability to run my trains with one controller no matter if they are track or battery powered? 

Chas


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By wchasr on 02/20/2009 8:53 AM
So let me get this straight in laymens terms? 

I ca now get a NCE controlelr that will broadcast both to a Gwire reciever running a QSI decoder or an Airwire reciever (either running on batteries) AND to a "traditional" DCC equiped loco running from track power? Giving me the flexability to run my trains with one controller no matter if they are track or battery powered? 

Chas 


You could do this with an Airwire throttle right now.

But I'm delighted to see this--Airwire is working well for me but it's great to have more choices and competition


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By ConrailRay on 02/19/2009 9:08 PM
.....SNIP...... 
However, why is QSI ripping us off on the Gwire board?? 108 bucks now?? come on... its a $44 dollar chip (not in bulk) and no more then 5 bucks for the rest of the parts. Maybe its time we start building these ourselves... 

*OH, yea - how about the "AUX LIGHT" board due out next month...next month...next month...next month...??*
Which MONTH of WHAT YEAR??[/b]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I share the frustration, I want the aux light board, but I have posted several times that the board, while designed quite a while ago, would just have to be too expensive, since it requires an additional lighting controller, street price might have to be 70-80 bucks. 

I agree with Tony Parisi that this just does not make sense at this time. Tony is working on integrating the lighting controller into the QSI boards proper to reduce the overall cost. I agree, no one will buy an extra lighting board for $70-80 bucks. 

The Gwire cost seems high also, but remember that it does cost some money to put it on a board, and the couple of components and the little cable. I believe it could be cheaper, but perhaps it's the volume the product must be purchased in. We have to remember that when you say it's a$40 chip, what quantity are you talking? If you are talking 10,000 unit quantity, then that's not realistic. 

Maybe the price can come down. 

One small clarification on the NCE throttle: It works as a NCE wireless throttle in the NCE system, i.e. it communications to base stations, which then connect to the DCC command station, which puts DCC signals on the rails (through a booster). 

The other mode is DIRECTLY from the throttle to a receiver in a loco, either a "Real" AirWire receiver, or a QSI/Gwire combination. 

Regards, Greg


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
That's what I was getting at. If I've already got a loco with an Airwire reciever (or a QSI & Gwire) set up I can control it on my DCC layout with my NCE controller as well? Sounds liek the simple answer is yes? The real answer is likely a bit more complicated though I'm sure. 

Chas


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not Greg but I believe you would have to install a cutoff switch to disable the Gwire card (not hard to do), but would the existing NCE wireless base station work with the new NCE wireless throttle? Hmm. If it did, I'd expect the Airiwre throttle to work as well. I'm guessing you need a dfferent wireless base station, or this new throttle, or a software upgrade. Hmmm. That suggests to me that Airwire throttle could work as well. Interesting


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chas: 

The way your question is worded, it makes it ambiguous to me. 

1. you use the term NCE controller.... I will assume you mean NCE cab, the hand held unit. 

2. A "real" AirWire "brand" receiver is a wireless receiver, it picks up it's commands from the air. This new NCE cab will transmit directly to it. 

3. A QSI board can work just like (2) above with the addition of the Gwire radio receiver. ALSO, if you "turn off" the Gwire, it can pick up DCC from the rails. 

4. If you have a QSI in the "pick up from the rails" mode, then a NCE cab of ANY type will be able to control the QSI equipped loco. In this case the NCE wireless cab transmits to a NCE base station, and then that goes to the NCE command station, and then to the rails. 

To make a QSI+Gwire system to work this way, you add a SPST switch to the "radio disable" pads on the Gwire board. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, the part that's unclear to me is how the new Cab speaks to the existing NCE wireless base station. Or do you need a new, different base station?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The new cab speaks to the existing NCE base station just like they used to. I believe the transmission mode is one or the other, not both at the same time. 

Look, the "standard" wireless cab system is 900 MHz on the NCE... the AirWire interface is 900 MHZ, so just a difference in transmitting protocols. 

I think you are thinking that the new cab transmits to BOTH different protocols at the same time... I would venture to say no way. 

Is this what you were thinking? Both protocols simultaneously? 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, just wondering. If the transmitter communicates with the G wire card, AND with the NCE base station....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, but most likely not at the same time. 

I'll research this and get back to the thread. 

Regards, Greg


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Thanks for the info RJ. I have become somewhat frightened from what I have read here and elsewhere about keeping brass track clean in the outdoor environment for running DC or DCC. Between wheel arcing of high current draw locomotives like USAT, normal oxidation, micro scratches on the track from daily cleaning, rail clamps for conductivity and multiple wiring points it becomes a little overwhelming.








After all, this project started out as "hey wouldn't it be great to run trains outside"! After 14 years of accumulating enough track, acquiring enough rolling stock and locomotives, and explaining to family and friends why I want to do this, I thought battery/wireless on my brass track would be my best bet.
I like the technology and I'm glad to see all the choices that are becoming availible. Everyone needs to find out what works for them in thier environment, I'm just trying to avoid screwing up too much so I can continue in the hobby without alot of frustration. 
Thanks for everyones input!









Steve


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's important to realize, I think, that most of what people write here is based on the pursuit of perfection. You don't have to have rail clamps, you just have less trouble if you do. Brass track is fine, it just takes a litle more effort to clean. I had track down for over a year with just plain old slip joiners and it was fine. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good!


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg,
I understand about higher costs because of low volumes, but I mean this practally off-the-shelf board costs almost as much as the motor/sound decoder (with all the design work and components on that)?!?
The Gwire board uses a linx rxm-900-hp3-ppo. You can get these from digikey. 1 for $43.40 each, 25 for $39.68 each, 100 for $30.47 each, and 200 for $29.76 each. I was going to order some to play with, but apparently they are out of stock. They have smt version available for the same price, but talk about a soldering job!! The ppo chip is a 8-parrallel channel chip, which is why it has the 8 channel selector on the board. They also have a pps version of the chip (in stock) which is 8 parrallel channel/100 serial channels, but the serial channels need to be controled from a uproc (doesn't matter as it still has the 8 parrallel channels that are used in this system). 

The CVP T9000 uses the pps version of the transmitter chip, and the older throttle uses the ppo version. I'm wondering if NCE had to add a linx chip to the controller or they were able to use what's already on board? I would assume they used what's onbaord as the cost is still low, but I thought the linx chips were designed to specifically communicate with each other (SAW filters, FM/FSK demod, etc), but maybe those are standard practices...

And yes, there's no way a $70 lighting board will sell. If I remember the original design, it did have some crazy features on it, which I thought was overkill. Tony needs to also hook up with digitrax, lenz, dcs, etc and get an altered version of their lighting decoders (or does he also make a version?). These can be easily modified to plug into the gwire board and accept the DCC signal. I did something similiar about 2 years ago with a funciton only decoder, and about this time last year, I walked someone through on this website how to hack into a soundtraxx DSX chip and connect it directly to the Gwire board and powered from batteries, and it worked very well from what I've heard.

Also, I emailed QSI when the gwire first came out, asking them if you can hook 2 or more QSI decoders to a single gwire board, and they said this was possible but not tested. If the 5v pulse becomes too deteriorated, it would be pretty easy to build and optocoupler circuit to buffer it up. This could save some cash for people that keep there locos MUed, since the amperage is so low on the decoder, you need one for each loco anyway. Might as well save some cash and use 1 gwire board....

Sorry to stray from the nce throttle topic...

-Ray


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Ray! 

I think you still have to add the cost of assembly, the board, the rotary encoder, and the little cable. Probably another $10-$15... so $40-$45 cost to the manufacturer... so 80-100 bucks street price does seem high. 

I'd hope the Gwire would be more like $60-65. 

I'll bet there's enough oomph to run 2 QSI's from one Lynx. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerryj (Jul 29, 2008)

Will the new NCE throttle [G cab] be out befor summer is over this year ? 
Thanks,Jerry


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

So Greg any more news after some time to research this? Can I control a DCC equipped loco AND a Gwire or Airwire equipped loco at the same tiem for this transmitter? Perhaps almsot even MU'ed (Yes I realize that's a real stretch as the protocols MUST be different enough that it isn't possible.) But can I say blow the horn on a Airwire/Gwire controleld loco start it moving and then start the NCE DCC controlled loco the same way? Perhaps flipping a switch or something? Heck I'm still trying to figure out my Airwire system.

Chas


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

I have not heard anything new on a delivery date (if any). I check Tony's Trains, OSI and NCE sites daily but no news. I even joined the NCE forum and asked around but no one responed. I shot NCE an email today asking for some info, hoping but not expecting some news. I know how companies don't like to talk about there unreleased projects but it sounds like people are really interested.

Steve


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Chas, 

I understand that the G-Wire NCE Pro-Cab wireless throttle is not capable of linking up with the standard NCE wireless RBO2 base station as a wireless device. However you can pair the G-wire Pro-cab throttle with a hard-wired or tethered connection without issue. Now weather or not you can operate these two protocols simultaneously is unknown to me at this time... I'll see if I can get an informed answer from Tony ASAP. 

Regards, 
Michael


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

For those interested, the NCE "G-Wire" wireless Pro Cabs are shipping, mine is in transist as of today. 

Michael


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

I did notice that one online dealer was showing them in stock but the NCE and QSI websites did not list them. I am glad to see they have finally arrived.







Now its time to start sneaking money from the cookie jar!

Steve


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

I received a e-mail notification today from Tony's that mine was sent by UPS today. My tracking number shows delivery is scheduled for the 10th.
Bob


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## Jerryj (Jul 29, 2008)

I received the new NCE G wire very nice had the cvp air wire and this I think is a lot better. Is there a back light on it ? 
Jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Should have the back light but does not stay on very long. I can not get it to stay for over 10 sec. Later RJD


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## Jerryj (Jul 29, 2008)

I called NCE no back light to save power


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That is weird, the "normal" DCC wireless throttle has a backlight that stays on for a while, but switches off after 6 seconds or so. 

So they left it off completely? 

hmm... maybe the AirWire protocol transmits more often/continuously. 

Regards, Greg


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 

A friend has the AirWire throttle & I think it barks all the time.. When he hooks up a booster to the CVP receiver to run his track powered loco's every thing is good until he turns off the throttle, then he does not know what the loco will do.. Some times it will stop, some times it will go forwards @ full speed & some times it will go backwards @ full speed.. This is with QSI decoders & Digitrax decoders.. 

BulletBob


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting--The Airwire throttle is not backlit. But I've gotten six-nine months out of four lithium AAAs. In fact I don't think I've had to change batteries once since I got it. If it's signaling all the time it's not using much power to do it. 

That NCE throttle does look good. I'm very tempted


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

lownote, 

Do you turn your throttle off & let the train run or do you stay with it all the time with the throttle on?? 

Ray, 

I think the NCE system is about the same as the Lenz system.. CVP makes a radio control that will work with either system.. There may not be that much difference between the systems.. The NCE system uses RS-485 for talking between units.. 

BulletBob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can set CV29 so that the loco will keep running in the absence of a signal... standard DCC stuff. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I usually hang around with the throttle turned on. But I'm often running two trains with the same throttle, and they both stay at the same speed when I switch the address the throttle is commanding. I'll try turning it off completely and see what happens--I think the trains just keep running, but I'm not sure


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Been doing some testing with the new NCE transmitter... Works right nicely with gwire receivers and QSI Magnum decoders. 2 train operation is a breeze using the "RECALL" button. Switching back and forth without speed change is nice.

Some of the instructions don't match up with the actual procedures, but I've only used it for about 2 hours....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob i've found out using the DCC decoder boards if set to run on DC will at time make the train a run away when first turning on the power. I have gone in and switch off the dc mode. Later RJD


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

RJD, 

Makes it hard to run DC track power if you do that!! 

BulletBob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Damn straight! Sometimes I forget to re-enable the DC mode when taking my locos to another layout. Actually the QSI seems to be pretty well behaved with the DC mode enabled, I've had glitches with NCE decoders. Not saying my DCC "noise" situation is optimal, I've never done anything to keep the noise down, like twisting the power feeders or putting a resistor and cap at the very end of a run. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerryj (Jul 29, 2008)

I always turn the transmitter on first and then power on, to turn off power first transmitter last. 
jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Just have to remember to enable the DC wfhen taking to another layout.







Later RJD


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## Jerryj (Jul 29, 2008)

I have the new NCE throttle and it works great. Problem I have an AC dash-9 with QSI PnP and G-wire it all works but after shut down the number board, marker lights, and cab,ditch lights stay on. they are when power is turned on track or battery. Could the wiring be wrong.
Thanks Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

In the Aristo locos, those lights are often connected directly to the track. As long as you have power on, they will run unless your lighting switch will turn them off. 

The current QSI only controls what is available from the Aristo socket, only the front and rear headlights are connected to the socket. 

Can't really blame the QSI, it's a limitation in the interface socket. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerryj (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks Greg and only the headlight turns off with the switch. Not blaming QSi they have a good product and NCE G-wire is a lot easier then Airwire. I think the speed control is great along with recall and you can talk to a" person" when you call. One last thing I have been reading the forms and I don't see much about USA trains always AC I am planning on getting a SD40 Milwaukee Rd to run with AC D-9. I also asked on AC form why AC didn't make the REV. work with the AC PnP from QSI Lewis said QSI didn't make their boards work with REV. no comment 
Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

USAT has not had the "DCC" socket like Aristo has. Yes, the original purpose was for DCC. (Funny now since Aristo never misses a chance to take a pot shot at DCC while promoting their TE)... 

Unfortunately, USAT has not seen any "advantage" to this. The current Aristo socket, which has been copied in some Bachmann units does not have definitions for the second row of pins, which could be defined/used for cab lights, marker lights, ditch lights. 

QSI makes stuff to fit the locos that are out there. A long time ago Aristo wanted this, and QSI did a lot of work figuring out how to make units plug into the Aristo sockets, the effort was due to the variations in how Aristo wired the socket over the years. 

Then Aristo decided they wanted a sound board, but they wanted the socket for their motor control, and the QSI should plug into the Aristo board. This was way too limiting, it made it so QSI could ONLY work in an Aristo loco if the proprietary Aristo R/C unit was plugged in first. 

So QSI decided to market the board with sound AND the standard DCC capability themselves. Aristo was not real happy, torn between trying to control the market in their locos, and the obvious incremental sales that the QSI brought, since it is truly plug and play. The Aristo 75 MHz was not a success due mainly to range and noise problems. 

This is how this product developed. 

Now, there is no socket in USAT, so QSI has had to develop a complete replacement, plus their 2nd generation units for Aristo. This is taking some time to get right, since there is a redesign in the system. 

So, the real reason again that the new TE does not work with the QSI is that Aristo did not want to make the effort to integrate with the existing product. AirWire did come up with a way to integrate DCC sound systems, and I advised Aristo to do this. 

But Aristo sees DCC as the "enemy", as evidenced by the continuing pot shots and misleading information about DCC. So, Aristo did not put any effort forth to integrate with ANY DCC sound boards, especially the QSI. 

Regards, Greg


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