# Pondless waterfall pump



## ClassTimeSailer (Aug 10, 2008)

I am building our first water feature. (Koi pond and stream will come later.)I would like a 4 inch wide stream of water falling 18 inches just behind a short truss bridge into a 18 x 24 inch "pond" and then pumped back up. I have no idea how many gph I need. I want it to run 24 hours some days. Any recommendations of pump models, sizes, etc. would be appreciated. 

Thanks, 
Jeff


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Check at Lowes or Home Depot as they both have an extensive selection of water pumps for the garden. From what you have described it sounds as if you won't need a very large pump. Each pump has a recommended amount of flow based upon height and hose capacity and you can get this from the side of the box. Good luck!


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 08/25/2008 9:10 PM
Check at Lowes or Home Depot as they both have an extensive selection of water pumps for the garden. 




The stores in your area sound like they are much better stocked then the ones is this area. The stores in my area have next to nothing in selection. Anyway back to topic - 

A 1000 gph pump will suit your needs. I have a smaller version of one of these - 
http://www.pondliner.com/Surge1000F.htm and its a nice little pump for the money. I get most of my supplies from the pondliner folks. There have been couple of minor screw ups with orders and they were promptly fixed (a sign of good customer service). I also get pond supplies from Drs. Fosters & Smith - http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/shop.cfm?c=5163. 

-Brian


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## Greg Vocks (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.yourwatergarden.co.uk/waterfall-flow-rate.htm


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## Greg Vocks (Jan 2, 2008)

Also: 
http://searchwarp.com/swa13676.htm 
http://www.pond-waterfalls.com/artwaterfallflowtest.htm


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## Greg Vocks (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't limit yourself to just fountain pumps; a sump type submersible pump will often be less expensive. Just make sure it is rated for continuous use. I have had several water features over the last 15 years, and so I have several pumps around. The ones I use the most are the little giant sump type utility pumps. 
The best looking streams (IMO) are a series of pools with a few inches of drop between each step. A steady downhill stream will tend to dissapear into the rocks. I know. I am working my stream out of this phase right now. 
The tricky part is getting it to look natural. 
Good luck with your project.


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jeff, 
I see your from Redondo Beach I grew up in Redondo (a long time ago), I now live in Corona. 
As for your pump, if your going to use your pump for Koi you use should consider an oil-less pump, because any oil leak could kill your fish. 
To size your pump go to Choosing the Proper Pond Pump....for a 4" spillway on waterfall you will need a flow of 500 GPH...but remember the total lift of the water will also affect GPH, so again if your going to use it for a future pond you should take that into consideration. 
I have about 50' of stream with a 5'x 10' pond, and a lift of about 8'...the pump I currently use is probably bigger than you will need is the Pondmaster Mag Drive Pump model PM 24...I've had this pump almost 2 years and it runs 24-7....


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff, you said "pondless" so I assume you just want the stream, but don't forget about a storage tank. When you turn off your pump all that water has to accumulate somewhere or it will flood your downstream G scale town


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Choose what you will but I found our pump with our first pond a couple years ago. We installed an Aquascapes Designs Micro pond. We liked it so much that when we moved to the new house and found that the pond that was already here needed to be rebuilt, we purchased the same pond kit. The pump that we have (link below) was in both pond kits. 

http://www.pondappeal.com/aquasurge-asynchronous-pumps-2-500-gph-5-000-gph.aspx 

Cost to run 24/7/365 is has been about 20 buck a month. The one we had here prior cost 60bucks the three weeks we tried to run it. 
They also make a pondless water feature kit. 

http://www.pondappeal.com/nurserypro-micropondless-waterfall-kit.aspx 

Well worth the investment IMHPO. 

Sorry you have to cut and paste but until we can get our icon to add links back.... this is all I can manage just to put them in the post.


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

As stated before....http://www.pondliner.com is a great company to do business with. Now 100% with them for supplies and equipment. Customer service is exceptional. Thought my pump went out, they sent new one before they got the old one. Paid shipping both ways. They have it all and a great website for information. If you need to call, they are always happy to answer questions.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have always used www.azponds.com 

As for pump sizes depends on the width of the falls. Usually 100GPH per 1" width taking into consideration the head height variance too. Usually pumps are rated full open pipe you can loose quite a bit with height of the waterfall. 

Also keep in mind that a 4" wide stream is around a 6-8' scale stream or river depending on the scale.


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2008)

I have used both magnetic drive and direct drive from www.wholesalepumps.com 
See Jack Verducci's book for some brand names and other information. 

Chip


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## Big John (Jan 4, 2008)

I used to have a fish pond but I just got tired of all the maintenance. I now have a pondless waterfall and would never go back to a standard pond. Mine has been running for three years with no problems. My waterfall is 5 feet high and the stream is around 6 inches wide where it flows out of the rocks. I have a pump I purchased from Home Depot that was rated for 850 gpm and it has plenty of volume to keep the stream flowing. You will definetely need some sort of burried container to set the pump in and hold all the water in the system when you shut it off. I buried a 55 gallon drum and my stream runs into it. Good luck.


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## Greg Vocks (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Big John on 09/03/2008 8:33 PM
I used to have a fish pond but I just got tired of all the maintenance. I now have a pondless waterfall and would never go back to a standard pond. Mine has been running for three years with no problems. My waterfall is 5 feet high and the stream is around 6 inches wide where it flows out of the rocks. I have a pump I purchased from Home Depot that was rated for 850 gpm and it has plenty of volume to keep the stream flowing. You will definetely need some sort of burried container to set the pump in and hold all the water in the system when you shut it off. I buried a 55 gallon drum and my stream runs into it. Good luck.




I did the exact same thing this year, John. The fish pond was a full-time hobby on its own. It was taking away time from the RR. My sump is 2/3 of a plastic 55 gallon barrel. 
The pond was about 8' by 18'; now it is home to the sump with a fancy grate over the top, and a fountain head, and a small patio area for viewing the stream, the fountain, and the trains.


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