# Building the Skookum in 1/32



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Skookum is the world’s only operating 2-4-4-2. Skookum returned to operating service this year after a 15-year overhaul at the Oregon railroad on the former Southern Pacific Tillamook Branch. The 1909 locomotive has an amazing story that starts with its rejection by a Tennessee logging railroad, its acceptance in the Pacific Northwest, and its tragic derailment that left it abandoned in the woods. Enthusiasts saved the locomotive and over more than 60 years moved it to safety and eventual restoration. Here is a photo of the “Skookum” unloading logs at a mill pond in 1953.










And after the derailment and abandonment.









And the current restored version now running at Niles Canyon Railroad in California










Text and photo found on the web

This is a small but complex loco. It is a true Mallett with compound cylinders. I will be building this in similar fashion to my N&W Y6 builds but will be showing more of the machining and metal working procedures. I will be making three locomotives.


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## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

This should be great, looking forward to seeing it come together!


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## Poys718 (Sep 5, 2019)

I know someone who has made a skookum out of 2 accucraft ruby cylinders and the rest was custom built. interested to see how yours turns out


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## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

Bill, You have to come to Diamondhead, All of ous Midwestern and East costers want to Meet You


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Bob
Maybe some day. 
Or, You can come to Sacramento. The meet and accommodations are great and lots of track time available.

My build will be a little different from the Ruby one as having the engine nearby, I should be able to get a real close scale model with the correct size spoke wheels and Walschearts valve gear along with the different size low and high pressure cylinders.

Searching the web, I found this pretty good spec drawing. I also have a large blue print of just the engine. Neither was absolutely correct but good enough to start my plans










From this drawing, I drew out the frame rails and gave them to Dennis to cut out on the CNC mill.
This can be done without CNC as I did before Dennis converted his mill but this makes things more accurate.


















The wheels come from Walsall and you can get them in rough castings or finished and quartered on the axle shaft. I prefer to get the bare castings and machine them myself
Below, the rough castings are on the rt and on the left are wheels which are ready for the tread profile which will be done with a plunge tool to be shown later.










I start by mounting the wheel in the outside jaws of the three jaw chuck and drilling the axle hole out to 3/16"









I then ream it to 5 mm









It is then mounted on the arbor and the tread width is cut to 6 mm wide









Still on the arbor the tread detail is roughed out leaving it .010" oversize for profiling.









finally the hub is turned to .250" 









The pilot and pony wheels are the same and are turned in the same manor









So. here is what I have so far, the frame rails and wheels for three engines.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you for posting about the details of wheel profiling. I have seen it described on the Mark Woods Wheels website but if I recall correctly, it shows a larger, more rigid lathe at work. I am very interested in how you manage a form tool on a mini-lathe for the final profile. 

If nothing else, I did not know about Walsall. At least I will be able to purchase wheels pre-machined.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Unfortunately, I am not able to do the plunge profile cut on my lathe as it is not ridged enough.
I am headed down to my friend Dennis Mead's house this morning to do it on his full size lathe


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a 20 year old skookum built by one of the pioneers in our hobby 

in 1:20.3


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

bille1906 said:


> Unfortunately, I am not able to do the plunge profile cut on my lathe as it is not ridged enough.
> I am headed down to my friend Dennis Mead's house this morning to do it on his full size lathe


That is what I had guessed. I am considering a larger machine for just that purpose. Do you do the form tool yourself? Mark Woods has form tools for sale. Given the complexity of the shape I assume they must be wire EDM'd.


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

Wow! I will look forward to following this thread. I wish you the best of luck with regard to this complicated scratch build. Will you be finished by SS2020?
Best regards,


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Kevin
Yes I plan on having them done for Sac
Jim
It would have been fun to do it in 1/20.3 but since it was and is a standard gauge we are doing it in 1/32
Our tools are just ground from 5/16" tool stock with a grinding wheel and dremmel cut off tool

Here are some photos of the process


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

The axle boxes are critical as if a hole is off center, The wheels will bind when the side rods are installed. Dennis does them on the CNC mill which gets them correct every time.

Being that each chassis only has two drive axles, I could mount the axles in fixed positions but by springing them, I ensure true tracking through the roughest conditions.
Here I set up the first one in the mill vise for drilling. They are set up so the flat is in line with the left side of the vice so that after the first hole is set up, they can all be drilled the same. First I center drill them all and then drill them out with a #30 drill bit for the 1/8" springs.










A spring is checked for fit. Springs will be selected for compression later









Before I mount the wheels on the axles, I have to make the axle pump eccentric. I will be using 12x18 mm ball bearings so I turn a length of 12 mm from 1/2" stock. My axle is 5 mm and I want as much throw as I can get so I measure in from the outside .110" and center pop it there









I now mount it in the four jaw and adjust it by mounting a length of music wire which has been turned to a point in the tail stock. I adjust the four jaws till there is no wobble in it, 









I will be parting off three eccentrics so I put a dot on the piece so that each time I slide it out it stays in the same position in the chuck.


















I then drill out and tap the set screw hole. My mill is adjustable down to 50 rpm or less but it still maintains full torque so to prevent the tap from bottoming out and breaking, I put a piece of tape where I need to stop.









So here are the three finished eccentrics









Here are the front and rear chassis with the wheels just slipped on. You can see the front and rear crossmembers where the buffers will be attached and the round crossmembers I always use. These give the frame tremendous rigidity and keep everything perfectly aligned as I add other cross members. I will probably need to remove the rear on on the rear frame to fit the axle pump in but the pump itself will act as a crossmember.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I am moving about with this build. It helps in doing three so that I don't get too bored with repetitive operations.
The crank pin on the wheels has to be accurate for the cylinder stroke and the same for all wheels. I have a length of 5 mm rod pressed into a brass block mounted in the mill vise. I center on it and then go .350" out for the .700 stroke and drill and tap all wheels.









The counterweights are attached with JB weld. You can just make out that the front ones are a little smaller per the prototype









Things are tight on the rear truck. I will be using a ball bearing scotch yoke but I need a really short piston & cylinder









Here are the axle pumps in place. The crossmember on the lower frame is for the rear truck









A closeup of the bypass valve









Because of the small wheels, there isn't enough room for a long shoulder bolt and coil spring. So I came up with this spring which will keep the pony truck on the track and the two raised portions will keep it from flopping around when picked up.









The cylinders start with a square bar rounded off on one corner in the router and then cut to .020" oversize on the table saw.









Then they are trimmed to length on the lathe









They are center spotted









They are then drilled out to 3/8" and then bored out to .500 and .650"









The 2" pipe is cut to length and squared off with the 12" disk sander









A former block is cut out from a 4x4









And the firebox is formed.









And checked for square









Throat sheet and front sheet are drilled out


















Here is a video My friend took of the soldering of the first boiler. It went pretty good but I got it a little too hot on the sides and it didn't flow that well there because the flux broke down. I redid it later and it came out fine.

Not sure id MLS has fix YOUTUBE vids but if you don't see the vid click on the title and it will work. It is 6 minutes.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you for the additional detail on the specifics of your build process. This is gold. The counterweights on the drive wheels, is it just sheel metal or is there counterweight material in between the spokes also? Also, what torch are you using in the boiler soldering video?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Sean
The counterweights are 1/16 hot rolled steel sheet
The torch is a Sievert. Not sure of the model number
Here is one at Amazon but it has the air holes closer to the tip. The holes close to the handle allow you to put the tip close to the inside of the firebox. Siefert has a handle which accepts different tips. It says Siefert Pro on the handle.
https://www.amazon.com/Sievert-Indu...hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4584207577679761&psc=1

Harbor freight has several at lower prices but you would have to go down there to see the torch head size the one in the vid is 1-1/4" OD


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

The Sievert tip you are referring to is the "cyclone" tip. It is available in several sizes, the medium size is my standard "go-to" for most work.

Grainger sells them, this web page shows several sizes:
https://www.grainger.com/category/welding/gas-welding-equipment/brazing-and-soldering-torch-tips?attrs=Item%7CBurner&filters=attrs

The big advantage of the cyclone tip is that you can insert the torch tip inside of close spaces without affecting the flame. This is important for things like silver soldering inside of a boiler firebox.

The Sievert brand handle and torch tips are expensive, but work without complaint. I have never regretted the purchase.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Cliff
This is a little different than the link
Maybe an earlier model


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## steamdriven (Dec 4, 2019)

Amazing, simply amazing that you have the skill for such things. I am totally envious.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

There is a lot of machining to be done on the 12 cylinders for the three engines. I start by drawing out the dimensions and settings i will use on the mill. A couple of things changed but you can get the idea.









The cylinders flange out to support a larger valve body. I cut a 1/8" x 1/4" strip on the table saw to get the triangular transition pieces and solder them to the cylinder, I then fill any gaps in the seams with JB weld.









All of my machining will be done on the left side of the mill. I hold a parallel against the side to make sure each part is in the same position.









On the lathe, I turn out a tool used to center the cylinder bore in the mill. It is exactly the samd diameter of the bore so it gives me a true center.


















The circle program on the DRO is used for the end cap bolts. You can see the mounting and exhaust holes on the left side of the cylinder also.









Then the holes are tapped out on my Micro Mark Tapping tool









I want the cylinder drains to be as close to the end of the bore as possible to ensure total drainage so I first drill a .040" hole .040" from the end









I then center drill and then drill a 4-40 tap hole(.093) at a distance of .080" from the end.









This solves my problem of having a hole at the end without having the drain mount hole too close to the end.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, sometimes your photos are as amazing as your machining!


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## bobrstrong (Mar 25, 2013)

Bill, again you continue to amaze with your team. Now you and Henner have more to Joust about, LOL


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Working around putting up Christmas decorations, I was able to get some work done on the Skookum

I took this shot to show how the steam flows into the cylinders. you can see that the outer ports go at an angle to supply steam to the cylinder and how the middle one goes through the block to what will be the exhaust pipe.









Here are the cylinders showing the various holes that have been drilled in them.









The side rods for the chassis need a bolt which has a low profile head for clearance and looks. 1/4" stainless hex is turned to 4-40 for this









I finished up the boilers. Here I am ready to solder the inside of the firebox and boiler mount studs. Although all three boilers are almost exactly the same dimensions, I have them numbered for the best fit.









Here they are after soldering









Two boilers were leak free after the first soldering but one had two leaks and had to be resoldered. This shows the before and after pickling and clean up.









And the finished boilers









The cylinders have covers on the end caps. I turn them out to .050 over the cylinder diameter and bore them out to the diameter. this gives a .025 thickness to the cap material.









I check the bore diameter and depth on each cover.









Before I fully part them off, I round the end off with a file.









Here I am drilling out the valve body which has been milled to accommodate the valve.









So here is a good day's work of milling and drilling.









And a box of parts for final assembly which will probably be after the holidays


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

How are the rear cylinder end caps held in place in the assembly? Also, how do you produce enough threads in the front cylinder head for the single screw that holds on the front cylinder end cap?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Sean
Thanks for asking
I will take some photos showing the setup


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Here is a photo of the front of the high and low pressure cylinders, The LP cylinder had a front piston rod guide which I don't need here because of the crossheads but I duplicated the look. The cyl cap has a stud turned to 10-32 which received the extension an holds the cover in place. the HP cyl cap has a raised portion which equals the cap bolt head height thus giving me enough room to tap it to 0-80 and use the 1/8" long screw to attach the cap.


















The rear covers will be held in place by the piston rod gland nut. the two extra holes are for the crosshead guides.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you. And the crosshead guide, how is that mounted? I see the holes on the rear cylinder head.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

yes, the cylinder end of the guide goes into the hole in the head. I haven't designed the rear attachment yet. I usually have similar holes drilled into the bracket or sometimes I drill a hole through the guide and attach it with an 0-80 stainless screw.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Here is the crosshead guide on the prototype









And mine









Front attachment









Rear attachment









This bracket holds the crosshead guides and the expansion link. It is cut out on the mill and the tabs for the guides are silver soldered on. Ceramic blocks keep the tabs in place









The blocks for mounting on the frame are soldered on also. I used oversize blocks as they are easier to keep square during the process.









Here they are blasted and ready for paint.









The bracket for the expansion link is curved and irregular so I start with rectangular pieces and drill the holes in the mill. On the lathe, I drill out some 1/4" stock and part it off. I then slide a piece of copper tube through the drilled hole and into the hole in the rectangular piece. this centers my piece and the hole in the tubing acts as a pilot hole for the next operation.









They are then drilled out to 7 mm to accept a 4 x 7 ball bearing. A notch is cut with a 1/8" mill as a registration point for the mounting holes


















Finally, the shape is cut out on the band saw using the 1/8" blade









Dennis made these beautiful expansion links on the CNC mill which were exact scale dimensions of the prototype, but unfortunately they didn't produce enough valve travel so he will be making some a little longer. I hadn't considered why the link was so small till after I tried it. The prototype had long narrow valve ports which would have scaled down to under 1/32". I used my standard 1/16" ports which need more travel.









So here are the two chassis in various states of completion. I made a brass block with the dimensions I calculated and drilled two holes at the top and bottom of what will be the link slot to check the valve travel which is now perfect.


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

Thank's for sharing yet another build!

I liked the idea with an off-center draincock hole entering the cylinder.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

So the turned end of the crosshead guides just slip into the holes in the rear cylinder head? Is there anything else holding that joint (loctite) or is it only held in by the single screw to the bracket?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Just the rear screw which will be set with thread-lock


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I made a ceramic burner box for testing. This will also be used for the rear boiler mounting so it needs to be strong. I start by ripping some 1/16" brass to 1" for the sides. i need to have a bevel on the front to clear the rear drivers so I cut it from the strips before soldering. I solder all four sides together and then cut out the bottom to be soldered on. I use snippets of silver solder and heat from the outside.









I then tilt the box and solder on the transition piece.


















Here is some of the techniques I use for the valve gear. I get 1/16" x 1.8" tool steel strips from McMaster. It comes with a black coating which is easily removed with the bench top belt sander.
For the combination levers, I calculate the hole distance needed and then on the mill, I drill the holes in a strip before cutting to length with a hack saw









Stainless rod is used for the pivot pins. I peen the ends over with a small ball peen hamer


















I use the edge of the 1" belt sander to form the ends around the holes which is needed for clearance.









Here is how the levers come out









Here they are in place. You can see where the valve rod yoke is contoured on the sander at the combo for clearance. the prototypical reverse arm and link are installed above the expansion link.









The cylinders have covers on the front and back as well as over the valve body. these are made from 3/16" brass bar milled out to 1/8" deep which is the thickness of the valve body cover. I mill the perimeter with a 1/8" end mill and hog out the center with a 1/4" end mill.









I check the fit with a cover and then cut to length and sand to contour.









So the first HP chassis is ready to hook up the steam lines, air test and then paint the cylinders,


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

More great looking jewelry!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I didn't show the ceramic burner completed boxes last time. Here are two ready to assemble boxes and one installed in the boiler









The chassis have been tested (both HP & LP) and the first HP chassis is painted.









[


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

Bill, Where do you get your ceramic material from? And beautiful work! 

Jason


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jason
Bruce Engineering in UK

Here are some videos I took this morning











This was in compound mode at 25 psi. The front (LP) engine always lags the rear as it is getting its steam from the rear engine. It also runs a little slower as it is using the same volume of compressed air but moving bigger cylinders.

The rear engine has two needle valves attached. The top one will be for the adjustable lubricator and the bottom one is a bleed valve which passes a small amount of high pressure steam to the front cylinder which warms it up prior to start up by cracking the throttle while building up steam pressure.
This is a set-it-and-forget-it valve









Here are the six chassis. The front two are a little advanced in the build.
You can see the linkage between the two chassis which needed to have an idler shaft on the front chassis to go around the boiler mount and still have the long rod going from center to center.










And with the boiler set in place


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

That is really some fascinating valving and piping. Looks like it all operates very nicely. I wish my scratch built Mason Bogie would run that well!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Winn, I was happy with the performance on air and hopefully it will do the same under steam.

One thing that I feel is required on a compound engine is cylinder drains. I don't like the manual ones as they are usually hard to get to and hot to handle. I have been using automatic drains for a while and I like the way they work.
Here is a diagram of the one I use.









After parting off the bodies from 3/16" stock, I make the mounting studs on the lathe









The body is drilled out on the side and the mounting stud is silver soldered on









and they are pickled in citric acid.









The body is then drilled out and finished off with a D bit









The plug is turned out of 3/16" stock. i use hex because that way it can be removed with a pair of pliers if cleaning is required.









You can see at the bottom of the photo how it goes together. The seat is set with a sacraficial ball and then a new one is inserted and the plug is pressed in.









I got some headlight castings from Trackside details that need a little adaptions. First I contour the base to fit the smokebox diameter on the drum sander.









this model didn't come with side number boards so I cut some to size and then used a 5/8" end mill to match the headlight diameter


















I made the cab out of 1/32" brass sheet stock and cut the sides and front out in the mill using a 1/8" end mill









I did the boiler wrap out of 1/32" stock also but annealed it before bending.
As you can see the domes and headlight bezel were turned from Aluminum bar stock. The bell is Trackside detail.


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Love this build!!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I have been using automatic drains for a while and I like the way they work.


So how do they work, Bill? I couldn't figure it out. Surely the ball seats firmly whether there is water or steam pushing on it. Or do they just drain when there is nothing pushing?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Pete
Have you ever noticed a clack valve leaking back while the boiler is coming up to steam?
The reason for that is water is getting into the valve and the valve doesn't have the proper design

The rule of thumb is that the amount of lift of the ball should be no more than 1/6 the ball diameter or it will leak when there is turbulence of boiling water.

The cylinder drain design is to have way more than the 1/6 diameter which allows the ball to be knocked off the seat by the water turbulence.
Thus water present and it leaks, no water and it seals


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

I assume the D-bit is to create a flat bottomed hole? Or should the hole bottom have a slight reverse angle like your sketch shows?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Flat is good, reverse angle is better
The sharp seat makes for a better seal when the sacrificial ball is tapped down with a hammer.
I try to do this on all of my ball valves - pumps, safeties, etc


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

In the past I think you made referance to this design also. Is one or the other better?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

The second one is the same but it lists the step by step procedure so you get everything done in the right order.
The one you just posted is just the original converted to CAD.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Have you ever noticed a clack valve leaking back while the boiler is coming up to steam?


Bill, when my clack valves leak, I have no idea why. I have to admit to no proper engineering education, so your posts and descriptions are extremely edifying. Thanks.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

The Skookum received steam directly from the dome. This was a flaw in the design as the compound engine really needed superheated steam to start up and run correctly.
My model will have a superheater but I will have faux steam pipes coming from the dome.
The prototype has steam pipes with insulation covered with sections of thin tubing.
I get this look by turning the shape out of 1/4" brass stock.









An elbow which took about eight milling procedures is then attached to the dome with a concealed 0-80 socket head screw and the brass bar is annealed and bent to the correct curvature.
Here you can see the unpainted setup with the painted version in the background.
You can also see the running boards and the power reverser.









The cabs receive arm rests, grab handles. and rear roof supports before priming and painting.


















Doors and window frames are cut out on the laser by Dennis and painted greeen.









I then cut polycarbonate squares that have a 1/16" overlay and attach them to the frames with canopy glue.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I got most of the parts painted and one engine mostly assembled.
I still have a few detail parts and the front and rear deck & buffers but here it is
The photos don't really do it justice as they seem very bright



























Here is the power reverser









And the clack valve- there is one on each side









The faux steam generator does emit steam









The air pump and piping The long pipe from the pump is the exhaust which goes into the smokebox on the prototype.
note how the hand rails stop at the steam pipe and have round knobs at the ends.


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

Beautiful!


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

I am curious as to why the real locomotive was considered a failure. I am going to guess that without superheating the "wetter" steam caused more condensation in the steam lines running to the LP cylinders which if I understand steam locomotives (and I only know the very basics) would cause problems. I know a bit off topic but curious.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Another great locomotive from the Billy shop. I love all the cool working parts on the drive train.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Lorna
I wouldn't consider it a failure as it is still running today. However, quite a few compounds were considered failures and were converted to simple because of the startup problems and complex simpling valves.
The mechanic at Niles canyon railway where it is running today told me that they actually have to pull it a ways to get it going where as they have superheated engine which starts up on its own but takes a while till it is running smoothly. They double head both mallet engines when they run them.

You are correct that the wetter steam which causes problems in a normal engine, really makes things bad in a compound. Think about when you see one of our models squirting water out the exhaust stack on startup and what would happen if that water was piped directly into the LP cylinder. I guess it was so bad on the Skookum which doesn't have drains on the LP cylinders that they had to retrofit pressure release valves in the cylinder heads to keep them from blowing the heads off.

So far, I have built four compound engines - the four-cylinder Heisler, the Triplex and two N&W Y6 's. 
All are superheated and have automatic cylinder drains on all cylinders. They all start up on their own and pull well.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

bille1906 said:


> Thanks Lorna
> 
> All are superheated and have automatic cylinder drains on all cylinders. They all start up on their own and pull well.


Bill, I would love to see you apply your magic to my Aster SNCF 241P. It is a compound, has manual cylinder drains and super-heating but takes an awful long time to get going and certainly doesn't start by itself. Once it is running it will pull a decent load but doesn't compare to, for example, the four cylinder Aster Duchess.

Maybe when the current crisis abates, I can bring it round for you to have a look at. 

Robert


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Bill, thank you for answering my question. I had forgotten that some mallets had special start up valves to allow HP steam into the LP cylinders for starting. 



Anyway, beautiful modeling.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Lorna
Robert
I believe the Aster superheating which runs a tube half way down the flue from the smokebox and then back again produces a lot less heat than my version which goes through the firebox
However we should be able to at least get it to start on its own
I'll email you when things are safe and I have some free time. I want to look at your shay too if it is still not pulling


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

bille1906 said:


> Thanks Lorna
> Robert
> I believe the Aster superheating which runs a tube half way down the flue from the smokebox and then back again


Correct - most newer Aster takes steam from the front of the boiler into a tube that is routed half way down a flue before going to the cylinders. The arrangement for the 241P is similar but uses two superheater tubes. 

The steam then routes to the HP cylinders which are contained within the frame about 3 inches back from the smokebox. Steam then goes to the LP cylinders which are external to the frame and alongside the smokebox. Lots of metal to heat up and the cylinder drains don't seem terribly effective.

I look forward to chatting about how to improve it - hopefully soon! 

Robert


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

zephyra said:


> Correct - most newer Aster takes steam from the front of the boiler into a tube that is routed half way down a flue before going to the cylinders. The arrangement for the 241P is similar but uses two superheater tubes.
> 
> The steam then routes to the HP cylinders which are contained within the frame about 3 inches back from the smokebox. Steam then goes to the LP cylinders which are external to the frame and alongside the smokebox. Lots of metal to heat up and the cylinder drains don't seem terribly effective.
> 
> ...



At the risk of derailing the Skookum thread, the fundamentals of the Aster 241P can be made to work very well and the loco can indeed self-start without the use of cylinder drains. The twin rows of superheat work well enough, but a better use would be to put a drier in place for the HP-LP receiver. There are a few key components that are worth making doubly sure are correct, but there are 4 locos running that have passed through here with no faults using the stock fabric, with one or two changes to some design specifications...mainly adding gaskets where there were none and making sure everything is well insulated on the HP and LP receiver lines. 

In fact, on one loco, I eliminated the HP drains altogether and found that the parasitic losses from them was hampering the compounding performance altogether. 

Please reference the following self start video here: 



 (Notice; to control wheel slip the throttle is manipulated as the load is quite heavy and the loco is on the foot of a grade in that position. It is NOT being pushed)

I look forward to seeinng what improvements are made, regardless. Great progress on Skookum, Bill.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

rbednarik said:


> At the risk of derailing the Skookum thread, the fundamentals of the Aster 241P can be made to work very well and the loco can indeed self-start without the use of cylinder drains. The twin rows of superheat work well enough, but a better use would be to put a drier in place for the HP-LP receiver. There are a few key components that are worth making doubly sure are correct, but there are 4 locos running that have passed through here with no faults using the stock fabric, with one or two changes to some design specifications...mainly adding gaskets where there were none and making sure everything is well insulated on the HP and LP receiver lines.
> 
> In fact, on one loco, I eliminated the HP drains altogether and found that the parasitic losses from them was hampering the compounding performance altogether.
> 
> ...


Ryan - great video. I had an unfortunate experience pulling a very similar load of Wagon-Lit coaches. The coupling between the first coach and the tender failed. Free of the load, the engine took off faster than I could run and came off the track at the next corner. It landed on soil so the damage wasn't too bad - a bent deflector and some scraping. Hans was able to get me spares and it is now (cosmetically) in good shape except for the mysterious loss of the steam dome cover.

Sorry for the thread creep....


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## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

Bill, you do nice work. Thanks for sharing it


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I finished the front decks and pilots this week
There is a tricky step on the front of the running boards which Dennis offered to cut out on the CNC mill.
On the left are the sides which are curved down, Dennis put groves in them to locate everything during the solder process. He also put bending grooves in the step/back portion.









The pieces are then cleaned up, soldered together and to the running board from the underside with an 0-80 screw and a touch of E6000


















So, all three engines are finished to the same point. I still have a few minor things to ad but this is about the final look. The headlights are warm white LEDs. A 1/16" tube holds two 30 ga. magnet wires for the headlight power. The center engine has RC for the throttle and direction.


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,

They look beautiful!

Best regards,
Alan


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

Absolutely beautiful looking!

Jason


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll echo what Alan and Jason said Bill. Gorgeous!!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight Ennis said:


> I'll echo what Alan and Jason said Bill. Gorgeous!!


And me - great work!


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Thanks Bill another piece of great work and I learnt something from this build posting ( as I always do) this time info about automatic cylinder cocks and why they work with the clearances you suggested and also info on clack valve balls and their clearance as well 
Russell


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Guys
It was a bug job doing three of them but it is worth it when you can finally sit back and enjoy the sight of them
Now, on to the tenders.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, Another great set of locos. I really appreciate you posting the work you do and explaining the science and engineering that goes into it. You are a great asset to this site which has lost some of the best of its contributors. I hope you can keep it up.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Hi Bille!
Longtime no news! I decided, as it would be a pretty long post and with more to follow, not to polute your build post on Skookum. So you can see how I am getting along in a new post called : SNCF De Casoi mikado tank build.
I don't know if I managed to include my photos OK, but will keep trying.
Anyways I wanted to thank you and congratulate you for another great build saga, Keep up these fantastic and informative posts.
By the way this confinement thing is great for us modelbuilders, in our small french group we all send ourselves photos of the various projects we are working on. It builds a great emulation like your posts do here.
Best to all.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I am working on the tenders now
I started with the trucks which are a little different from anything I have seen in the past
They are a standard arch bar construction but rather than coil springs, they have leaf springs with a double set of box frames connecting the two.
I used an arch bar truck side frame I had and made the changes out of brass for a master and made a silicone mold to cast the new ones in Urethane. I then backed them up with brass and used a brass flat bar as the cross brace.









The .032" sides are rivet embossed. They are then annealed and bent to shape. the front and back are soldered on and then the bottom base. The frame is silver soldered together and attached to the base with four 0-80 screws. They are on the deck end of the base so nothing penetrates the water bath.









The top frame will be soldered on after the fuel tank and hand pump are fitted in.
Here is the RC version with a dry compartment in the front and the cut-out top frame for RC access









Here is what it will look like when the top is soldered on. the rear buffer is painted and ready to install.









A cylindrical fuel tank is the easiest to make as you just have to solder a disk at each end of a pipe but a rectangular tank offers more capacity. As this is a small tender, I decided to go with a square one and have all of the valve mechanism inside the tank giving it more head room.
Here is the design I started with. You may note that the valve drawing at the bottom is different from that at the top as I decided on this arrangement instead.









MY table saw cutoff sled allows for precise cuts and perfectly square pieces.
I silver solder all parts of the tank. I start by soldering the four sides together. I check the squareness with a piece of brass sheet I have cut before.









Then the bottom goes on. I made the tops and bottoms .050 larger in order to have a lip for soldering and also in case I am off slightly on the squareness of the sides.









The top is drilled out for a stay and the valve. The fill valve hole is also drilled and tapped.
Then from the bottom, I solder the inlet and outlet tubes to the valve and the valve to the top piece.









Finally, the top is soldered on. The tank is checked for leaks by adding some butane and submerging in warm water.









The front number plate was a real hassle for me. It seems like no one will do custom etchings any more. I had to order blank plates from Trackside Details and then when I went to paint them, I couldn't find them so I had to order an other set. They came in yesterday. Dennis had CNC'ed some #7's for me which I attached with JB Weld. I first painted them black and then with a hole punch, I made some round pieces of masking tape and painted the red for the outside.
My red can clogged up so I need to break the Sanctuary-in-place order to get another can of red engine enamel. After everything is painted, I will sand the raised brass with 320 and the 600 sandpaper


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Lovely work, Bill.


> It seems like no one will do custom etchings any more.


I think the EPA doesn't like the chemicals? There are still several people in the UK doing etchings - I get mine from Narrow Planet.









https://shop.narrowplanet.co.uk/collections/custom-etched-products/products/npp-424


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Pete
I get them from Steven too but he won't do bespoke orders any more.
Only what is in the catalog


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

What about Robert Dustin? I know he stopped silkscreening decals, but I thought he was still doing engraved number plates.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I tried him on my last build and he was not interested in doing anything.
It would sure be nice to have a source of custom etchings


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Here you go Bill. I asked the UK guys on Facebook.

http://www.rhoshelyg.me.uk/MDC.html

https://www.facebook.com/BustedBric...GRNiIS5R9dmRggUGAsT2apWTlwDITZqR6oBs&fref=tag


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Awesome
Thanks Pete


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Re: Narrow Planet. One UK guy said
_" I just checked the Narrow Planet custom plates webpage, and what they actually say is "our etching supplier has suspended production for the time being, so lead times will necessarily be extended on these products." So long lead times, rather than "isn't doing custom work." Just thought I'd offer this clarification."_


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Pete
This happened over the last several months when via email he told me more that once that he no longer does bespoke (custom) plates.
He does have several what he calls custom plates on line which you can put in your number or name but you can't change the font or number size. Nor will he make a custom shape or builder plate.

I guess because of the virus, he is on hold on everything now


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Might be faster to make your own with photo etch. Print black ink on copper and etch the clear parts away.

A safer acid:
https://www.instructables.com/id/Stop-using-Ferric-Chloride-etchant!--A-better-etc/


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

You can also make your own with this...

https://www.micromark.com/Micro-Mark-Pro-Etch-Photo-Etch-System_2

I have done a few plates for myself and others with mine (including the number plate on my Accucraft prairie below). It's pretty easy to use and gives good results.


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## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

i have done it myself with materials intended for circuit boards that was iron-on and it was tedious but the end results were OK. The system and materials mentioned above look far better to use.

Steve


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Here is the number plate with the two tone paint job









The base for the hand pump needs to be soldered on. As the tender is soft soldered, it is important to keep the heat concentrated on the plate and surrounding area and apply just enough heat to melt the solder snippets around the plate so that the solder joints at the bottom of the tender don't melt.









The top frame is secured with spring clamps made from close hanger wire and then strips of 1/32" staybrite are laid in the joints and soldered in place.









The top plates are fitted in. The fuel tanks are in the background and a hand pump in the front.









Here is a closeup photo of the hand pump









I want the water hatch, which is also the knob for the fuel valve, to have a handle matching the Ozark Miniatures oil hatch. I tried to bend a couple of .047" pieces of brass rod but I couldn't get the bends small enough so I made this jig for bending them.









And here is the finished knob









Finally, here is what the final look will be. I am in the process of painting the tender and parts today and should be doing the decals and clear coat tomorrow.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I finished the tenders and am now in the middle of making the carrying cases.
Here is the coal version in front with the oil burner behind in in the lower portion of the case with the full case in the background.








]










There is one coal and two oil tenders. Here is the coal tender.


















On the oil burners, the oil hatch is from Ozark Miniatures. The round water hatch is the gas valve knob which I made to match the look of the oil hatch.









The coal burner is RC so the water section is smaller than the non RC units so the hand pump is mounted transversely. The tube on the rt side holds the pump handle 









And here is the non RC version.


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## sakumar (Jul 1, 2019)

Fantastic model, Bill!

Here's a picture of the full size prototype:

https://i.imgur.com/fcoMEAF.jpg

Edit: converted very large photo to a simple link. Click the link to view the photo. Mod.


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

Beautiful! They turned out absolutely beautiful.

Jason


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, Bill They look great........


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

On the photo Sacumar posted, I noticed a pump on the tender I hadn't seen before.
I went through the book I have and finally found this photo of the oil tank with the pump on it.
Due to my limited knowledge of logging engines, I was unaware that this pump was used to pump water from streams into the tender.
Because this was part of the story, I decided to do my best to duplicate it.
Here is the photo









You may notice that the cylinder covers are bigger than the cylinders and one cover is made for both cylinders thus converting two four bolt covers to one seven bolt cover.
To make this, I parted off slices of 1/4" rod and then on the mill drilled four bolt holes, On the 1" belt sander, I sanded down to one hole on each piece and silver soldered them together and later drilled out the center hole.









The water pump body was cut from 3/8" square stock. The steam cylinders were made by turning 1/4" rod down to .200" and then milling one side of each piece by .020" They were then silver soldered together. The water body tops were cut from 1/32" sheet stock and sanded to shape.









The valve body for the steam cylinders was cut from 1/4" square stock and drilled out to .032" at .050" in from all sides. a base was cut from 1/32" sheet and rods and piping was cut from .062" and .047" stock









1/32" rivets are set in place with loctite as well as the inlet and outlet water spigots.









It is then painted and set in place on the tender. The paint was fresh and it will tone down in a day or two. It is semi gloss


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice looking looking pump. I love interesting details like that. Question: Why does this thread come out 4 times wider than the page?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill;

I think I may have an answer for you. Three posts above yours there is a photo of the prototype in a very large format. Until the entire photo loads (depending on the speed of your web service) , the page will be four times wider. Once the photo has loaded, the page will jump back to a reasonable size. Aren't computers fun?

Best, David Meashey


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

placitassteam said:


> Question: Why does this thread come out 4 times wider than the page?


I fixed this by converting the very large photo to a simple link. On my system, the auto-resizer didn't work on this photo, and I ended up with the same result you got Winn.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Great job, Bill.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Here is a video if the train in action on my track. This is the RC version one thus the slowing down and speeding up. You can see that it has plenty of power and is running here with the butane valve at about 50% and the maximum throttle at about 60%


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Beautiful job as usual Bill!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful video and loco. Bill. (I bet it never ran that fast in real life!)


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

Man, This is Absolutely beautiful!! I wish i could do work like this!


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