# Guinness: Beer-alcohol-butane?



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys,
with Betsy more or less finished (apart from new gears being cut by Mark) it is time for a new project. A planned monorail is on the back burner due to problems procuring some C-channels. Being a fan of unusual locos, I stumbled across this contraption:

* http://www.16mm.org.uk/newsite/files/default.html
* 
A picture of the prototype is here:

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Guinness_locomotive.jpg
* 
A history of the line: 


* http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/22/Guinness.htm
* 
Check out the haulage wagons. The loco is lifted into these wagons and used as a "motor" to switch standard gauge cars. I will probably make an adapter car for 45mm (the loco is "O" gauge). With the speed of this combination I will not only annoy the mainline guys, I will finally make even Shay lovers nervous. My progress so far: Wheels (finished) and steam "motor" (in progress):











Regards


----------



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

In years past there has been a 16mm version at Diamondhead built by a Brit/Canadian chap whose name slips my mind presently. Live steam of course - SteamTom1 probably has a photo in his extensive photo files!


----------



## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill Shipp is the man, and here is his locomotive...


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow,,, that is a stout little engine


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

that is a stout little engine 
A bit pale too.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I like it Henner. The cylinders on top and vertical siderod have a great appeal. It's a winner. What are the technical details? Bore/stroke, boiler type etc.

Thanks, Bob


----------



## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I *think* someone did a small run of these in the UK, was posted on one of the 16mm websites. I have always liked them, should be a great project!!


----------



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Steamtom1.

I knew you would come through.

You may be getting older but the brain cells are still firing on all eight.

Don't forget my prize from your last "contest". I'll be looking forward to my Pepsi One toast to the winner.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 
there is a complete set of drawings from Bob Bath in the first link. Cylinder diameter is 5/16" , stroke 3/8". Bob was even kind enough to send me pictures of his build. This will be a project where I can just keep making parts without having to do design work. BTW, I tested a nice trick suggested by Dennis: For centering the valve plate/cylinder assembly for silver soldering I turned little plugs from an ordinary graphite wooden pencil. The graphite could be easily turned down to 0.05" without breaking, took the heat well and kept the silver solder from plugging the channels. However, don't try high end 0.5mm refills as they contain an organic binder and explode (Guess how I know...). 
Regards


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

While I usually don't go for non-North 
American locos, this one really appeals to me. I'll bet it is very busy looking when in motion. 

I am looking forward to seeing your progress. 

Larry


----------



## Walt_Linn (Jan 3, 2008)

Bob Bath's Guiness loco in motion


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Walt_Linn on 05 Dec 2010 04:51 PM 
Bob Bath's Guiness loco in motion 

That's sweet. The exposed vertical siderods are cool. A lot of mechanical action for sure.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, due to the Xmas holidays some progress. The steam engine is finished and runs nicely on 
Next steps are the chassis and the coupling rods.

Regards


----------



## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Henner, 

My goodness that is excellent progress during the Christmas holiday. I attempted a little bit of work on the lathe, but postponed any serious work until it's warmer in my garage workshop. Today was better, but the past week's weather has caused me to find indoor projects to work on. 

Please tell me what the short rings are that appear to have been soldered onto the ends of the cylinders. Are they extensions? Are they part of the gland that seals around the piston rod? 

Regards, 
Steve


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,
I am lucky to have a spare bedroom as a workshop with Sherline mill, lathe, drill press, sheet metal shear/bend and jewelers lathe. Only the big milling machine is in the garage. The rings are indeed covers, which contain the O-rings for the piston rod. You can check out the complete set of drawings in the first link.

Regards


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Henner, 
Looks like a lovely piece of work. 
I also have a couple of questions. 
In the photo of the assembled unit: 
1) The cylinders seem to be at the same angle, as if the crank is not at 90º, or is this just an optical illusion? 
2) To hold the cylinders agains the ports, is it just the 'bent' wire? Is this solid, or are you using it's spring to do the work? If so was it trial an error to get it right? 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

David, 
thanks for the kind words. The crank is at 90º. As the photo is taken with one crank at about 45º, they seem to be at the same angle (+45º vs. -45º). The 'bent' wire is 16 gauge piano wire and is used as a spring. But again I should refer to the excellent drawings from Bob Bath, who graciously posted them on the WWW (see first link of this thread). I am just shaping his ideas into metal... 
Regards


----------



## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

At first, looking at the drawings I couldn't see how power was transmitted from the Crankshaft to the Jack Shack, but then I found it in the notes....gears. And, of course, the gears show up nicely on the video.

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Nice work on the steam motor Henner.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work Henner. A real piece of jewelry. It's hard to tell from the photo, but the motor o/a length is only about 2". Very fine and intricate work.

It appears that the Cylinder Bottom Cover is soft soldered to the cylinder. Is that correct?

Looking forward to the rest.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bob,
thanks for the encouragement. The engine is indeed just about 2" long.The rear cylinder cover is soft soldered, the front a press fit. This way I can disassemble the cylinder to replace the piston/rod O-ring. Yesterday I downloaded the CAD program Alibre and drew up the unique and complicated side frames for machining. Mark (who also acted as a help desk for this program and prepared the drawings for your Nina) will cut the parts on his CNC mill. 
Regards


----------



## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Henner, 

Did you get the Alibre "personal" version, the trial version, or the business version? 

Thank you. 

Steve


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,
it is the personal version for $99. It lacks some functionality of the professional package (mainly the sheet metal addition), but is otherwise complete. By now most of our work group use this program, so we don't have interchange problems and can share know-how.
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Here a CAD view of the strange side frames:



The real thing to be posted soon...
Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

CNC cut frames is clearly the way to go. Chain drilling and hand file is too old school. All the curves, fillets and holes will come out dead spot on. I should try to sweet-talk Mark into cutting frames for my next project.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Here are the promised frames. Mark cut them on his CNC mill:










Not everything goes well first time. Here some contents of the scrap box:










I gave Mark some sheet metal we picked up at the scrap yard. It obviously had hard spots and broke mill bits.
Anyway, now on to making bushings/spacers and a chassis running on air may be in the near future







.
Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful job on the frames and rods. They came out sweet sweet sweet. I don't recall hearing it, but what kind of mill does Mark have??


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Bob, 

I have a Taig mill (CNC ready version). Controller is a Gecko 540 with a "Smooth Stepper" USB interface. I converted Henner's Alibre drawings to DXF and read them into CamBam+ to generate G code, and then used Mach3 to run the mill. For the steel I used a 4 flute 1/8" carbide end mill and cutting oil. The 260 brass was cut dry with a 2 flute 1/16" carbide end mill. 

The picture below is my mill and lathe. Let me know if you have more questions. 

Cheers, 
Mark


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Due to Mark's CNC parts it was almost boring to assemble the chassis. I turned the cranks as blanks and we cut the outer shape also with the CNC mill, including the hole for the crank pin. This way the throw of all 6 cranks was absolutely identical. Here 2 pictures of the frame:










and










It runs already on air at less than 5PSi:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-TS37NVzXA





Regards


----------



## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner, 

I envy your "boredom". Good heavens your little Guiness is coming together quickly. I wish I had the spare time (and talent for organization) to be able to indulge in that form of boredom! Can't wait to see the Guiness. 

Mark, 

Thank you for all the detail regarding your CNC mill. Spent some time last night researching the various components. It's got me thinking... 


Steve


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Great job Henner. Looks in the video like it runs very smooth. Reverse works great. Self starting for sure.

If you would, please walk us thru how you fit the piston O ring to the cylinder bore.

Thanks, Bob


----------



## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Looks great Henner. Glad the parts worked out and I was able to help. Next time, if you want a little more excitement in the build, just say so. I can move a few of the holes around or loosen the backlash adjustment so things are more challenging to assemble  

Steve - let me know if you have any questions about CNC. The Taig has been a fantastic tool for "G gauge" projects. Before getting it I was worried I might regret not having a manual mill, now I can't imagine why I would ever turn cranks. CNC is an amazing tool. I've even cut my own gears and sprockets with this machine!


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 
to fit the piston O-rings: 
I attach a dial indicator to the Y-axis of the lathe. Then I use a parting tool to put a shoulder on a piece of scrap brass. The O-ring is pushed on the shoulder and tested in the cylinder. Once I am satisfied with the fit, I use the same setting of the indicator to cut the groove in the real piston. The groove is about 0.002" wider than the O-ring, so it can roll a bit. So far this worked pretty good. 
Mark, 
I am OK with being bored. No need to spice this up by randomly shifting holes!! 
Regards


----------



## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 

I once shimmed a too-deep piston o-ring groove by wrapping in the groove a thin strip of dollar bill (US$). I adjusted the number of wraps until, with the o-ring in place on top of the wrapping, I thought the fit into the cylinder was about right. By cutting the thin strip off the edge of the dollar bill I could still spend the dollar. Why a dollar bill? Because of the paper's durability. It makes good gasket material, too. 

I like Henner's method for cutting new o-ring grooves. Much better engineering. 

Steve


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

What's interesting is that the fit of the O ring to the cylinder is measured by "just right", "feels good" or "I'm happy". That's why they call this "Industrial Arts".


----------



## Chrisp (Jan 3, 2008)

Good video Henner, I hope to see it run in person. My late stepdad worked at Guinness in Dublin back in the sixties - probably too late to see these running around St James Gate brewery. Maybe some diesels were left.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, 
the last steam locomotive was retired in 1962. The line was finally abandoned in 1975. BTW, I found a photo of the hoist for lifting the steam locos into the haulage wagon. 
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Progress: slow but steady. The boiler is done; safety (it finally pops due to Dennis's experimental work), burner and lubricator are also ready for installation. The burner is not yet soldered as I want to test the slits in the poker. 




I hope to have her ready for the first steam test in 2 weeks.

Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: Are you drilling your own gas jets? What diameter orifice?

Great work!! It's going to run like a Swiss watch.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob,
Yes, I drill my own gas jets. I am the lucky owner of a very precise jeweler's lathe (which has a story of its own - built 1949 in Germany by Boley-Leinen, rescued from the trash in 1980...). The diameter is either 0.15mm (6mil) or for larger locos 0.2mm (8mil). McMaster carries(ed?) these tiny drills. They are almost invisible and very easy to lose. Fortunately (knock on wood) I have not yet broken one. I'll post a picture of the jet drilling next week.
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a photo of the 6mil (0.15mm) jet drill bit compared to a paper clip:


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Here some pictures showing the gas jets being drilled. The 3 jaw chuck is from Sherline. There was an adapter available between the chuck and the 1949 lathe (Another great story with the adapter crossing the Atlantic several times as hand luggage - good old times). The drill chuck is the smallest precision chuck from Albrecht (0..1/8"). 

center drill :










drilling the jet (hold your breath...) :










Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Gulp!


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner - How does the burner work with the angle cuts? Or has it not been soldered yet? Did you use a slitting saw?


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jason,
I will test the burner probably this weekend. I used a slitting saw in the Sherline mill. 










The only saw blade I had was a bit wide (0.027"), so I might have to make a new burner tube or put some mesh inside. We'll see.


Bob,
though I am now an American citizen; my English is still marginal







: What does "gulp" mean







. 

Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

"Gulp" is the sound your throat makes when you swallow real hard, and start drilling that 0.15mm hole. "Gulp" is an onomatopoeia , such as "bang", "buzz", and "hiss"

Good work on the burner. Looking forward to seeing how that works.

Bob


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

It's been a long time since the last progress report. Some parts did not turn out as expected and the job interfered. But now the gas tank/burner is done and works. It is still a bit loud, but the trusted method of wrapping the poker with steel mesh helped a lot. Currently I am working on the steam plumbing. I could not wait however to run the little beast with some temporary "plumbing" made of silicone tubing. Video of the test run to follow soon. BTW so far the only commercial parts on this loco are the gears and the Accucraft gas filler valve.

Here the current status:










Regards


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Nice job.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work Henner. Could you share some detail on the gas valve? What is the ID on the tubes and diameter on the orifice in the valve. The reason I ask is on Nina, I used 1/16" ID tube and #55 on the needle valve. I lucked out and that arrangement works perfect. There is no need to adjust the gas valve. Just open it up all the way and the burner runs fine. A choke on the burner helps a lot too.

Thanks, Bob


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 
the ID of the tube is also 1/16" (K&S 1/8" OD tubing). The valve orifice is about 1/16", but I think this is too large. Even with a fine taper it is basically either "closed" or "open". However with a 6mil jet it does not seem to be that important to regulate the gas flow. This is consistent with your findings. 
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Apart from the jack shaft bearing all functional parts are done. The "rest" will just be cosmetics, but of course as much fun as the build so far. Here 2 photos of the current status with completed plumbing:










and










A video clip:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCJGybErrR0

Guinness running


The little loco runs on very unstable and rough ground, but is powerful enough to master this situation, like the real one! The smoke box "door" is temporary (As I said, cosmetics later).

Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 23 May 2011 03:23 PM 
Here the last functional part and and and also the first detail part: The jack shaft bearing.










Yesterday the loco ran all day during the BAGRS steamup at the "Maker Faire" in San Mateo. As it uses O-gauge, I had no trouble with track sign-up sheets







. The tiny Hex head screws are from scalehardware.com


Regards


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Very nice detail. 
Seeing the 'slightly' random angles of the hex heads reminds me of a car that I was once shown. 
I can't remember what it was, but it was a superb restoration and I commented on the fact that all the bolt heads were in perfect alignment with each other, and the ground. 
I was told that this was quite correct, and that was the way that each car left the factory. 
I kind of 'don't think' that locomotives perhaps got the same treatment, but maybe the earlier ones did? 
But. like I said, very nice detail Henner. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

David, 
I just inquired: It was the apprentice! He actually intended to apply for a job with Aster, but due to this shoddy workmanship I doubt they will hire him







. 
Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice job Henner. You always build great running engines. Did you encounter any major or tricky difficulties on this plan?

Bob


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I knew I had seen this somewhere else before. Last night I was going through some early Garden Railways magazines looking for an article when I came across an article on Toucan by Tony Bird of Cynoed, Cardiff, Wales in V8 #6, November â€" December 1991. As the article states â€œAn ingenious Mamod conversionâ€�.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 
thanks for the kind words (again). No, I did not experience any problems, though the loco is a happy mix of small American type screws and larger metric ones (for the fittings). At the beginning I tried to metrify it (lathe and milling machine are metric), but soon gave up and just used the dimensions as called out on the plan (setting the dial to 3mm is the same procedure as setting it to 3.175mm = 1/8"). 
Dan, 
this model is completely scratch built using plans from Bob Bath, which are as close to scale as possible. No Mamods were hurt or killed during construction! 
Regards


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, 
this model is completely scratch built using plans from Bob Bath, which are as close to scale as possible. No Mamods were hurt or killed during construction! 
Regards 

I know that Henner and a fine job you're doing, all I was saying is that I had seen a model of this engine before but had forgotten where.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys, 
don't take my replies too seriously. Building and running this little packet is so much fun, I can't stop cracking silly jokes! 
Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: I notice the poker burner sitting rather high in the flue, I assume it points downward?


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 
yes it is pointing downwards. It took some tweaking to get the burner to work properly. First I used a 6mil jet, but it was extremely loud. Then I switched to a 8mil jet, which would not pop back properly. I enlarged the air holes, but this did not help either. I finally reinstalled the 6mill jet and wrapped the poker with steel mesh. Now the burner is almost silent and has to be turned down to keep the safety valve from blowing off. BTW the safety valve has been designed by Dennis Mead, a member of our work group. It popped open very nicely, but had a huge hysteresis. After I decreased the exhaust holes in the body it now pops open and "pops" close within 1..2 seconds. 
Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Gauge 1 live steam is a precision business for sure.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner - Looking real good. Itsa always a pleasure whewn you get something you are building up and running! I finally got my Idris going under her own steam.

Do you have a drawiong of the safety that you can post or email me?


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason, 
currently the drawing of the safety valve is a back-of-the-envelope sketch "metrified" from Dennis' drawings. I'll ask him next week for the original and will post it here. Have fun with your Idris! 
Regards 
Henner


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I ditched Sacramento this year, because I had nothing (new) to show. This was due to many events here in the Bay Area, which kept the EastDevilsHill crew from working on projects. This "stolen" free time helped me to get something done:
The Guinness can finally show her face, up to now the front was a temporary bracket:










The hinges are still missing, but Mark has given his OK to make them on his CNC mill. The shape is rather complicated, so I am glad to be able to outsource them







.

I also tackled the "fake suspensions" which are rather complicated on this loco. Bob Bath, who built the prototype could purchase castings for the leaf springs, but unfortunately the supplier went since out of business. More scratch building...BTW, up to now only the gears and the butane filler valve are commercial parts, everything else is built from scratch. I even had to make my own brass strips (Thanks Dennis for the slitting saw), as the correct dimensions were not available. Here a picture of the "fake" suspension:













I had to make various fixtures for milling and soldering. If someone is interested, I can post some pictures.

Bob Bath was so kind as to send me drawings of the haulage wagon and a flat car. So you will soon see an "O" gauge engine trundling along on gauge "1".


Jason, I have not forgotten your request for drawings of the pop safety valve. I am working on it







.

Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I would be Henner.


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Henner 
I finally figured out how to see your latest postings - page 2 - duh 
Beautiful work on the suspension. It looks like simi-retirement is agreeing with you 
Missed you ion Sac but it looks like you will have something to show next year. Cant wait to see it run on the 32 and then switch to the 45 on the dual ga track


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

More beautiful work Henner. The model darts and handles and hex bolts add a very nice look. Can't wait to see the hinges. The suspension look great too. The details like that really add up.

Bob


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Nothing exciting, just a reminder I am still kicking and working on my Guinness. Currently I am fabricating tiny parts for the dummy suspension. I almost feel I am back scratch building HO stuff. Here the brake hangers:










Some more of these small parts and then on to the front/back footplate.

Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Come on Henner. You have to show us the machine set up to do those.

Very nice, Bob


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob,
nothing extraordinary, just simple MNC (Manually Numerically Controlled). I solder 2 strips of brass on a brass block (cleaned up with a fly cutter) and then use an Excel spreadsheet with all the coordinates/paths including backlash. The main dimensions are marked on the strips using marking blue to avoid gross errors and then it's just cranking and milling. Making the 8 hangers took about 1 hour. I did not make photos but here is a picture of the brass block after the finished hangers have been removed (The additional holes are from a previous project):











Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

AHHH!


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been experimenting with MNC a lot lately. Using Excel with math functions to make X-Y lists. It works great, just takes a while to do. Also made up a quick and dirty "DRO" for the mill and lathe using dial indicators. They work great




















Henner, thanks for that picture. It went in the shop scrap book of great ideas.

thanks, Bob


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Yesterday Bill was over to discuss aspects of his quadruplex, so my Guinness project got on the back burner. However I managed to finish all the cosmetic parts for the frame: Dummy suspension (the hangers I described in the last posting were of course suspension hangers), sand boxes/pipes and some fake jackshaft covers. These covers were also made in the true MNC method using a sacrificial piece of brass and the rotary table. The final small radius was done with a filing button.

Milling fake cover on the rotary table:










and










Filing the small radius:











Here the finished covers:











And finally all parts ready for installation:










Next step after the installation of these parts will be the half round foot wells, another rather complicated part. So far this little loco has been the most complicated one I built, but it was (and still is) a lot of fun.

Regards


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

These parts are even more impressive when you see them in the flesh...er...brass. 
Who needs CNC?


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

A couple more days of time off from work so I could install all the new goodies. See here the current status:























Next step are the half round foot wells, some more rather complicated parts







.


Bob, I like your setup for the mill. Is this the one you use for the Climax? 
Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Henner. The Guiness looks gorgeous. All the fine work is paying big rewards.

Have not used the mill "DRO" yet on the Climax. It's still in the "black iron" welding phase.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I thought your other stuff was excellent Henner, but this project is turning out to be more than just excellent,,, only word I know to express it is Hawaiian, 'kupaianaha!'


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
thanks for the kind words. I was actually thinking of you and your "ScaleHumans". One of your 1:20.3 engineers might fit this loco. I already use Markus for my Betsy. Would you recommend Napii for this one? A picture of the real engineer is here:










Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I still owe you one. Pick one of those dudes in the image, or if you have a better figure in my send me an image and I'll have it done for you in no time. I appreciate all the help you have given me machining parts for my various projects, so you tell me what you want.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
that would be great. A guy like this (about 3 1/2" tall and legs spread about 3/8" apart to straddle the burner) would be perfect. He could probably also be used as an engineer (driver) for other Irish/UK narrow gauge railways:











Linked from Mike's Railhistory.
Mikes Railhistory 
Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

So we are talking about the guy on the engine right. Also, do you have any better images (hi res preferably) that allow me to see his uniform? I'd like to get it right.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Saturday Bill was at my place showing off his Quadruplex. He is so fast with his projects, so I had to speed up a little too. I hope to finish the Guinness before he runs his monster. BTW, we decided to try pulling his chassis on his dual gauge track with my Guinness. Watch out for the video! Anyway, I cut, bent, milled and soldered the fairly complicated half round foot wells. Now I can at least accommodate an engineer. Rick was so kind to model one after a photograph of the brewery in Dublin.

Back to the built: Here one of the wells ready for soldering. I did it in 2 steps, first the U-shaped part and then the bent buffer plate. I put some heat absorbing putty onto the first assembly to keep it from falling apart:



and both wells attached to the frame:




Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice job on a difficult part Henner. If I was doing that I would have made it a lot more difficult.

BTW, I switched over to citric acid for pickle bath as you suggested. It's a lot better then battery acid.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

A couple of weeks ago I was in Germany and got some nice small Hex brass (down to 1mm - 0.04" A/F and 2mm for e.g. Accucraft replacements!). It is perfect for making tiny "fake screws". I made a batch of them with 1.5mm A/F (though I hate repetitive work):



I used some of them on the stanchion sockets for the hand rails: 





The stanchions proper will be another challenge: They are made of stainless steel and have little balls at the end, which are drilled through.


Regards


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Henner 
When you say small, you really mean small. 
Beautiful


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The hand rail stanchions have small balls at the end. I don't have a radius cutting tool and even if I had one I would have had problems turning 1/8" diameter balls. Dennis came to the rescue again: He remembered having seen a tool for this purpose (and of course I found it 2 hours later also in Model Engineer...). It is made of drill rod, with a bore in the center about 7/8ths of the ball diameter with a sharp edge, hardened and tempered, see:





The ball is formed roughly by filing and then the magic tool is applied, twisted and moved in an arc and lo and behold a nice ball forms:



Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Great tip Henner. No reason not to jazz up loco projects no matter the scale.

vr Bob


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Oooo! that is a cool trick...making hand rail posts is a pain-- that should make them come out better. I have made several by roughing out a blank then filing it to shape. works OK but hardly perfect with my skill level. I read a trick to pre-drill the hole for the rail into the rod stock before machining the ball. I do not think i could make them by trying to drill a hole in the ball. 

P.S. I will have to look for that new penny...With my reading glasses on. Havnt seen it before!


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric,
predrilling the holes before forming the balls is an excellent idea. Why did I not think about that! I use the self-centering 4 jaw chuck to cross drill rods by clamping them diagonally. Well either next time or if I mess these up.
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

While Bill built a complete cab for his quadruplex, I just managed to make the 4 handrail stanchions. They are made of stainless steel (which I hate) and fairly complicated. They are very slim, so I had to improvise a steady to turn the taper:



Cross drilling was another adventure; I had to build a fixture: 




Finally the results: 





I hope these shop photos are not too boring







.
Regards


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Those look perfect! 

the jig for drilling the hole in the ball looks like it will do the trick. I can see that took some time to make as well. 

How did you support the long taper when cutting it? looks like a block of brass. does it have a notch or something to support the rod? It also looks like you are cutting "upside down" on the back side. how does that figure in?


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Henner 
You defiantly go for quality over quantity. 
Beautiful work as usual 
I too hate to work with SS and find if I just catch the slightest amount with my cutting tool, the small parts will break off at the chuck. Your support tool is briliant. I think I will make one


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric,
making the jig took less than 1/2hour. A ruined stanchion would have cost me more time to remake. The upside down tool is part of the Sherline compound slide for taper turning. The improvised steady is just a plain piece of brass and supports only the side thrust. A dimple for the ball end would have been better, but the simple solution worked for me. I used lots of cutting oil, a fairly low speed and a steady feed.

Bill,
By now you achieve both, quantity and quality!
Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I can't see it very clearly but it looks like your support block is attached to the lower feed bed? Or is it on the cross slide??


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
the brass block is clamped to the cross slide because of the grooves. So I had to readjust it for every pass. This took only seconds and I needed about 5 passes/stanchion. As I said, it is very makeshift but worked well.
Regards


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work Henner. Machining stainless is always a pain. Gotta be aggressive!


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: Your fine work proves that a few well thought out techniques go a long way. Guinness and Betsy show that there are endless possibilities for the detail work

Thanks, Bob


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Any progress shots on this Henner? I want to make sure the back hasn't changed too much and that the figure I'm sculpting will fit.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
I sent you a PM. Rick makes a custom engineer (driver) for the Guinness. Check out his thread:

Rick's figures

My Guinness now needs skins, but I took a break and started with the strange haulage wagon (See link at the beginning of this thread). The locos were lifted with a hydraulic crane (next project...) into the adapter car and could transfer broad gauge freight cars (5' was "standard" gauge in Ireland) to the next yard about 500 yards from the brewery. I cheated a little and designed the car for 3' gauge. I had to use smaller "standard gauge" wheels, as the NG loco does not fit between the treads as in the 5' wagon. Bob Bath kindly sent me the plans for the wagon. To make OSHA happy, the loco now sports a hand rail:











Here 2 pictures of the haulage wagon. The loco sits on the rollers, which are geared 1:3 to the wheels:











Here the loco strapped in (temporary couplers, Mark will cut the final ones with his CNC mill) 












Of course the wagon will be detailed with a footplate, steps and hand rails. 


Finally a link to a short video clip, showing the loco pulling 3' cars.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX0EDph-ffg 

BTW, most of the scratch building projects here on MLS are from a group from within a 20 mile radius in the Bay Area: Dwight with his 7 1/2" American, Bill Allan with his Quadruplex, Rob Lenicheck and his C-25, Eric's Ameri-Krauss and my Guinness. 

Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The editor drives me crazy, I hope this link works: 

Finally a link to a short video clip, showing the loco pulling 3' cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX0EDph-ffg 

Regards


----------



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks great Henner, you definitely built this haulage wagon with Bill Allen speed. Can't wait to see it all detailed up. As you point out I feel quite lucky to be around so many talented builders here in the great SF bay area!

Regards,


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Yesterday I tried out my loco/haulage wagon combo at Richard & Melinda's steam up. I could not complete a full lap, as the wagon seized up when it got warm. The tolerances were too tight! I fixed it today and now the little loco pulls like a bear (well at least like a cub). My layout has R3 curves and a slight grade within this curve. No problem for the "O" gauge loco in its adapter car (see pictures of the prototype in the 3rd link at the beginning of this thread):




Now back to working on the skins







.

Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark cut the very complex couplers on his CNC mill. They turned out really well. He used 1/16" cutters at high speed and very conservative feed. No bit was broken:




Here a picture of the installed couplers:



Now I really need to start with the skins.

Regards


----------



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Henner, 

I follow your report of the Guinness loco since the beginning and I like the project much more from every visit. 
At least, I'm a big fan of the beer too and in live steam on 45mm and 5" gauge. 

I did some calculating today and building the Guinness-loco in 7/8th scale will bring her on approx. 45mm gauge. 
Using 7/8th scale for the 1600mm irish broad gauge will turn out as approx 5" gauge. So this may be a project than can run on both track system that I use. 

But first of all, I've to finish the big Shay, but later on, I may build a nice little Guinness train... 

Thanks for your report and please keep up the good work and photos. 

Cheers, Gerd


----------



## elsiekillen (Oct 7, 2011)

oh my. it runs beautifully!








congratulations on this. 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Henner and Mark, those couplers are beautiful 
Where does the chain go when it is hooked up?


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Gerd, Elsiekillen,
thanks for the kind words. Gerd, how about building the Guinness in 1:12?
Bill,
the couplers are another clever invention from Mr. Geoghegan. The coupler drops down to engage and is lifted by the chain to uncouple. This could obviously done by the driver without having to step off his loco. See a picture of the engaged coupler (again the haulage wagon as I have not yet built any NG freight cars):



BTW, here a nice picture of one loco being loaded into the haulage wagon: 











linked from 

http://www.ngrm.org.uk/Collections/...lway/GS001 

Regards


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking great Henner! What are the couplers machined from?


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight,
we used flat brass 360 stock: 1" x 1/8". 1" was just tall enough.

Regards


----------



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Well, I just used the calculator... 

My first thought was while using 7/8th scale, it's a standard model railroad scale. 

Let's look at the gauges of the Guinness tramway. 

Prototype Gauge "Guinness Tramway" = 558,8mm (22") 
Prototype Gauge "Broad Gauge" = 1600mm (5' 3") 

Setting the "Guinness" onto 45mm gauge will result in 1:12,4 scale 
Using this scale for the broad gauge will result in 129mm gauge, what is 2mm more than 5"gauge. 

As you'll know, I actually drive on both gauges at home, so building this Guinness train set will give me the chance to operate it on both layouts. 

So, I'll go for 1:12,4 scale and will build the Guinness in this scale. Euroepan std. gauge cars on 5"-gauge are build in 1:11 (1:11,3) and they may fit to the guinness loco. Otherwise, I can build 2 broad gauge cars too... I start to really like this project (at least, I'm a big fan and sponsor of Guinness beer "cheers" ;-) ) 

But for now, back to Henners great model. I'll watch the next steps until completition and I'm interested in details about the bogie flat cars used with the Guinness. Do you have some good photos or drawings of those cars too? I couldn't find any helpfulll in the internet. 

Bye, Gerd


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful work Henner. To lay some dual gauge track.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Henner. Doesn't look like brass in the photo (to me at least). Must be the lighting.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Gerd,
there is some information in a "Google" book, page 367

This is the Link to book about Guinness 


Hope the link works. 
Regards


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a link to a PDF file on building the Guinness loco on the 16mm NGM site 

http://www.16mm.org.uk/newsite/files/default.html 

Nice model by Bob Bath. 

Charles M SA # 74


----------



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Henner, 

I couldn't find any helpfull on this link. Are you sure that it's correct? 
Or maybe I'm blind and doesn't see it... 

Bye, Gerd


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner et al,

You may already have the following, but I ran across it while rummaging around in old books on the Internet and thought you and others my find it of interest. There are 10-15 drawing plates at the end.

Guinness Brewery Tram (c.1888) - PDF 10MB[/b]


----------



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Thanks Steve. 

These might be the book that Henner mentioned above, but the link doesn't show it to me... 

Bye, Gerd


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Gerd

The information that Henner is referring to in his link is located on pages 143-144, 249-251, 298-301, & 366-368. Most is the same thing that is in the PDF that I created, but there may be some additional information too.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,
thank you very much for the .pdf. It seems to be the publication mentioned in the book and has much more information and larger pictures.
Gerd,
it is possible Google blocks these books for use outside the US.
Charles,
these are the drawings I am working on (see link at the beginning of the thread) and my loco is an exact replica of Bob's. We are in touch.
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a short update. I got some beautiful builder's plates from Bob Bath. I also needed some 5/32" brass angles to attach the skins (yes, I finally started making them







). K&S does not produce them any more, so I had to make my own. I used my trusted Profiform sheet metal brake/bending bench and within less than 10min I had my angles. Here a picture of the plates and angles:



and here evidence that I started with the skins (for a change they are cut out with a jeweler's saw and cleaned up with the trusty file - so no CNC there)



Rick made the beautiful engineer (or driver in UK English) for me. For those who don't look at the "Figures and Accessories" page, here a picture from this thread: 




Rick is just short of 4 more pre-orders to start a production run. It would be a shame, if this gorgeous figure would disappear







after a short run. The figure would look at home on any British outline narrow gauge/branch line/quarry loco.


Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the plug Henner, I am now just one shy


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The most dreaded part is over and it turned out quite nice: Cutting/bending and soft soldering the water tanks. This time I used a jeweler's saw and files to shape the tanks, so no CNC







. I tried Dave's method of using a 80W soldering iron but returned to my trusted torch. I made little aluminum brackets and bought some hair clips from the "girlie" department at Walmart ($1.98 for a sixpack) to keep everything in place. I fluxed with Rubyfluid (from McMaster - not made from freshly squeezed Accucraft Rubys !) I did not make a photo of the actual soldering event; it was too stressful to take photos. Dennis was an excellent assistant nurse, handing me the right tools and keeping me from doing silly things... 










and here the result:










Next up some extensions to the foot plate with mysterious rectangular cutouts. We identified them as part of the lifting device, which allows the locos to be hoisted into the haulage wagon. As I plan to also build the hoist, I need to make the cutouts.


Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Today I got Rick's fantastic engineer (driver) figure and I also attached the builders plate. As the smokebox can get pretty hot, I silver soldered 2ea. 00-90 studs to the back of the plate and then bolted it down.























For the rounded parts of the foot wells I need some diamond tread plate. It should be brass about 0.025" to 0.05". I ordered some from a place for military models, but the plate did not look right in this application. Does anybody know of a source?

Regards


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

If you etched that name plate you can certainly etch diamond tread plate. I recently purchased the Pro-Etch Kit from Micromark If you can draw it on a computer you can etch it! With all that said...I havnt tried it yet perhaps it is not as easy as all that.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good Henner. Good job!


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Henner. I use photo etched diamond plate from E.M.A. Model supplies Ltd in England Email: [email protected] 

My preference for 1:20 is the F-58 which has raised squares of .050. the F-57 has a much finer pattern that I was afraid paint would hide. 

I can mail you samples, if you would like. 

Larry


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric,
the name plates were a donation from Bob Bath, who built the first loco and made the plans available. However, I own the Micromark kit and have done a lot of etching in my "HO" days. I found it always challenging to get a deep consistent etch over a large area. But you are right, may be I should bite the bullet.
Dwight,
thanks! 
Larry,
thanks, the link looks interesting, but I think the Guinness had depressed diamonds (makes not too much sense to me with all the rain in Ireland, many little rusting puddles...). If however the diamonds turn out to be raised after all, I will order some of the stuff. I might then also take you up for the offer to send me a sample.
BTW it is a shame that scratch building supplies keep dwindling away in the US. 

Regards


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

My hardware store carrys K&S brass but more than most hobby shops I've visited ...they have some preferated sheets. Perhaps if you can find those, one would work for you if the right size could be found. laminate it with another sheet with solder to get depressed "dimples"


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric,
I ordered some nice diamond plate from Germany. No big deal, as my son adds it to the Xmas presents







.

The few missing parts to complete the Guinness are the hinged hatches on the top. Of course, none of the doll house ones are small enough, so I had to make them too. Here how it was done:
First a reference edge was milled into a brass block. Then a strip of brass was silver soldered to a 1/16" brass tube (from K&S!):




The whole lot was then soft soldered to the brass block and drilled/milled using a CAD drawing/Excel spread sheet as reference: 




The embryo hinges were then heated again, peeled off the brass block and cleaned up. The last photo shows the finished working(!) hinges ready for installation:




Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm off to the shop to make hinges!!!


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob,
do you really need hinges or are you just making them for fun?
Regards


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Very cool Henner. Not the easiest thing to do and very well executed. Kudos!


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Awesome Henner !


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 23 Nov 2011 09:52 PM 
Bob,
do you really need hinges or are you just making them for fun?
Regards


Oh, they will get used -- eventually. The process looks fun.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

More hinges! I promise, this is the last post about these tiny parts. The ones at the smokebox have a different shape, kind of trapezoidal. I started out with square ones and then made a little tool to mill them all to the same shape:









Regards


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Very clever


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Using an Excel spread sheet for repetitive work is a great tool. Recently I had to turn two 1/2" radius on a 4" diameter steel disk. Used Excel to calculate the X-Y values for the lathe. Light buffing with a file and sandpaper, it turned out perfect.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The build is gradually coming to an end. The hinges, hatches and grab irons for the smoke box/engine compartment are done, see:











and 











I also added some stainless steel studs which will be used together with hooks to lift the loco into the haulage wagon. They can be spotted between the frame and the curved skirt. The only parts missing are the diamond tread plates covering part of the foot wells. I also want to modify the burner. Currently I have to disassemble the loco partially to clean the jet.




Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I have decided to etch my own tread plates - as Eric suggested. First step was to design the shapes with my CAD system and test print them on paper. They are slightly oversize so I can file them later to a good fit. The rectangular cut outs are for the hoisting hooks to lift the loco into the haulage wagon. Here a picture of the mock-up:



The black lines will stay, the white areas will be etched. I have the etch kit from Micromark, but have never used it so far:


http://www.micromark.com/micro-mark...,8346.html 

I'll report about my progress - success or failure







.
Regards


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks great Henner. Those details are stunning.








I am looking forward to your report on the etching kit.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, the etching process does not seem to go smoothly. After I read the manual for the kit, I realized that it was not the toner transfer I thought. It is actually the conventional and probably more precise method of laminating the metal with a photo sensitive layer, expose it to UV light through a printed mask and then develop and finally etch it. After some trial and error I was able to create the negative of my artwork. My CAD system (Qcad) allowed me to export the .dxf file as a .bmp and IrfanView could invert to a negative. If someone knows of a program which allows negative printing of a .pdf file it would eliminate this intermediate step and be more precise. So far so good but the next roadblock came into view. The kit uses an office laminator to apply the photosensitive layer. Unfortunately the thickness of the whole stack is limited to less than 0.4mm or a thickness of the brass sheet of 0.015". This would be too flimsy for my tread plates, especially with a reasonable depth of the diamonds. So I took the laminator apart (warranty has expired long ago) and checked if it could be modified for thicker stacks. It is possible, but I would have to make new side plates with a greater (adjustable?) distance between the rollers. I still want to go the DIY route, as we need lots of etched parts for our current/future projects.
Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, 
When I saw your photo I thought you had choosen a simpler method for etching. In other workds I thought you had taken some screen and used it like a stencil to spray paint your positive spaces on. Paint will resist the Ferric Acid (?) and any unpainted surfaces will be etched. You don't really need photo etching for simple patterns like that. I have even used blue tape to cut patterns into and etch because the photo etching materials are cheap and you do need a little practice and patience when using them.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
unfortunately I am bad at eye balling (you and Eric M. have a magic sense for this), I always need some tooling to get things right. So I decided instead to modify the laminator for thicker brass. This will also help in making builders/name plates.











We'll see if it works. In my HO days I etched all the bodies of my locos and by far the best results were achieved with photoresist. But now I have to go back designing/machining cylinders for a guy who sculpted/painted excellent engineers for my Guinness







. May be he also needs etched plates for this project!

Regards


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner - is the light emitted from a standard copier/scanner UV? My thinking is to lay the materials face down in a flatbed scanner/copier rather than laminate them together (if the light is the correct type). Thickness would be far less of an issue here.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 19 Dec 2011 04:13 PM 
Henner - is the light emitted from a standard copier/scanner UV? My thinking is to lay the materials face down in a flatbed scanner/copier rather than laminate them together (if the light is the correct type). Thickness would be far less of an issue here. Dwight,
The thin photoresist layer is laminated to the metal. It is superior to spraying, as you get much less variation in film thickness. The idea with a flat bed scanner is something I might try. It may be necessary to make several "scans" to get the exposure right.
Regards


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I think the resist is heat laminated to the metal then a picture on clear film is laid over the resist and then it is exposed to UV. I have the kit too but havnt done anything yet.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Bummer, 
I wish I had caught that post before you started in on the modifications. You have two alternatives here. 
1 - If you insist on photo resistives, you can buy the brush on type at any art store. I used to use them for silk screening and for thicher brass etchings. 
2- You don't eyeball patterns like that, you make a stencil either on your computer or on a drafting table, apply two sided tape to it, and then tape it to the brass and cut it out with a razor knife. 
there is also some screen material that you can get at HD that looks like that pattern. You could have put that over the brass and spray painted the pattern on and then cleaned out the over spray.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
as I mentioned, I did a lot of photo etching in my HO days, see:










To get these fine details, you need a very precise thickness of the photo resist. Neither brush nor dunking worked for me in the past. I had some success with spray, but the laminated film is by far the best for really precise and crisp etchings. I am not sure how to make a stencil for this shape, as the diamonds are inverted and the stencil would fall apart because the lines need to be etch resistant.:












Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 20 Dec 2011 04:11 PM 
Rick,
as I mentioned, I did a lot of photo etching in my HO days, see:


To get these fine details, you need a very precise thickness of the photo resist. Neither brush nor dunking worked for me in the past. I had some success with spray, but the laminated film is by far the best for really precise and crisp etchings. I am not sure how to make a stencil for this shape, as the diamonds are inverted and the stencil would fall apart because the lines need to be etch resistant.:




Regards










Henner I did the front plate of Lanakila with the brush on photo resist. You just have to be very careful and follow the same clean procedures you need to follow for the film. If the surface is very clean, you can get a really flat thin finish. Notice the lettering in the plate. The whole thing is about the same size as a nickle.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 27 Nov 2011 11:43 AM 
Using an Excel spread sheet for repetitive work is a great tool. Recently I had to turn two 1/2" radius on a 4" diameter steel disk. Used Excel to calculate the X-Y values for the lathe. Light buffing with a file and sandpaper, it turned out perfect. 
Bob,
Can that be your next tutorial? Explain how to set up/use excel for making parts. I'm new to this whole idea of machining my own parts, but it looks fairly simple to do. I'm assuming what workings in milling brass would also work in milling styrene? 


Craig


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

As I got stuck with the loco proper (need to make a UV LED box) I continued with the haulage wagon. Mark cut the floor with the intricate cutout for me on his CNC mill, while I made gazillions of stanchions (I hate repetitive work):





















The wagon still needs some detailing: steps, fake journals, skirt. I also got nice brass I-beams from Germany and will soon start with the hoist. Bob Bath sent me another picture of the loco being hoisted into the haulage wagon, which will allow me to estimate the dimensions.

Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric ordered some nice pressure gauges for all of us from England. The smallest one with 1/2" diameter is perfect for the Guinness. I made a banjo fitting and Eric bent the copper tubing for me (he has calibrated eye-balls). I also made the buffer beams. The narrow gauge museum in Talyllyn sent me an excellent photo of the hoist which shows every detail up to the last rivet. Unfortunately I can't post it here due to copyright. But now I can start the hoist project. First the current status of the loco/haulage wagon:



Regards


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful critters--engine and wagon! It will be a shame to paint them. I have enjoyed watching how you do things. 
Larry


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry,
thanks for the compliment! Both critters will be painted. If I were on my own, I would leave them as they are, but with Eric as a paint/weathering wizard I will turn over the job to him. He will make them look real. Progress was slow during the last weeks due to a cold (yes, it happens even here in CA), but the haulage wagon is almost finished. The skirts are soft soldered to spacers which in turn are bolted to the frame. The fake journals are gauge 3 (which is standard gauge for 1:20.3) GWR tender castings from Walsall

http://www.walsallmodelindustries.co.uk/ 

Here how it looks like as of today:



To complete the wagon I need to fabricate diamond plate steps and a safety board to prevent the driver from getting caught by the vertical side rods.

BTW, some readers down rated this thread by reducing the number of stars (though most people ignore them anyway). I would be interested to know the reasons for this.

Regards


----------



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

I can't believe anybody would give this lousy thread anything more than one star! What we really want to see is endless threads showing photos and videos of stock, off-the-shelf Accucraft and Aster locos driving around in circles on large, elevated, un-landscaped and un-interesting tracks! That's what we want! I demand it! ;-) only kidding of course. I only wish there were more threads that were HALF as good as this one.

I crave the topics on good scratch builds and your Guinness loco has to be one of the best. The amount of craftsmanship you have crammed into such a small package is truly remarkable. I have told you this before but don't pay attention the those stupid stars because I sure don't. They hardly seem like an accurate measure of what is good or interesting. For example Bill Allen's build log of his incredible Quadruplex only has THREE stars!!! (?) I mean, SERIOUSLY? People must be freaking insane to not give that five stars. It is 32 wheel drive for petes sake!!! On that same note I would sure love to hear an honest explanation from anybody who sincerely believes that Henner's Guinness thread deserves anything less than five stars...


Rant over.

Regards,


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Great Erics...er I mean minds think alike! I find this one of the coolest threads along with the other building threads. 

I do not tend to give any stars one way or the other but not because I like one thread better than another just cause I never really thought about it until now! FIVE bright and shiny stars to Bill, Shawn and Henner and Dwight, Richard and the others! Please keep the posts coming. 

I most enjoy the the building and modifying threads because I can learn better ways to do stuff and how things work so I can improve my own work. I enjoy building models and sharing what I have learned too. I do enjoy seeing those big engines that i cannot afford pulling mile long trains I cannot afford on more rail than I can afford but just for the eye candy of the sight and to see how others enjoy themselves!


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Images don't do it justice Henner. Seeing it close up and personal reveals so much more detail


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Is it just possible that the stars are related to how many posts the author of a post has made? I notice that Eric has 3 stars and 426 posts, Richard has four stars and 1557 posts, and Dwight has 5 stars and 4313 posts. 

Just a thought, 
David Meashey


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay, just by dumb luck I proved my own theory. When I signed on this morning I was at 996 posts and had three stars. I just rolled to 1000 posts, and Behold! - four stars. 

So don't worry about the stars. They are related to the number of posts a poster has, not the appreciation of the topic. 

Best, 
David Meashey


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

That doesn't jibe David 
Henner has over 24,000 hits. 
Eric, Thank you for your kind words. 
Henner, perhaps we should corner Dwight if he is at the BAGRS meeting this weekend and get him to post some instructions on the informative threads site


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave

The problem is not in your observation but is in which group of stars that you are looking at.

You are speaking of the six stars that are located just below the User ID/membership area in the "Author" column for each posted reply, and the number of gold/yellow star present does in fact depend on the number of posted replies a user has made i.e. the more posted replies the more stars that are gold/yellow.

However, the group of five stars that are the object of this discussion are located just above the "Sort" field in the upper-right of the page above the first displayed reply on each topic page; they are also displayed on the respective pages listing the topics in a particular forum, just to the left of the "Replies" column, and they may be seen on other pages too. This group of stars is not dependent on the number of posted replies made by a specific user, but are a method for rating each topic by the individuals reading it.

This is accomplished by being on any of the pages in a given topic and moving your mouse pointer over the group of five stars located just above the "Sort" field, and left-clicking the mouse. Depending on just which of the five stars the mouse pointer is over when clicked (indicated by how many stars have turned gold/yellow in color), will determine the rating you are assigning i.e. the more gold/yellow stars the higher the rating. The sustained number of gold/yellow stars displayed depends on the aggregate of the individual ratings.


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve;

Sorry, I usually click on the latest post arrowhead and go into the topic. I must confess that I have never seen the stars you referred to before today.







So naturally I thought the reference was to the stars by the poster's name. My apologies to all, I may be computer literate - but just barely so.

Regrets,
David Meashey


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Steve 
Thanks for the info. 
In Henner's case the thread was at five stars for a long time and then droped to three. 
Would that be because people who had previously rated it at five viewed it again and didn't rate it so the machine registered it as no stars or maybe three?


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bille1906 on 07 Feb 2012 09:59 AM 
Steve 
Thanks for the info. 
In Henner's case the thread was at five stars for a long time and then dropped to three. 
Would that be because people who had previously rated it at five viewed it again and didn't rate it so the machine registered it as no stars or maybe three? Bill

While I have no documentation on just exactly how the aggregate topic rating is computed, my impression from watching it wax and wane on various topics I believe that is what happens. It seems that the aggregate rating is based on the number of views and the topic rating given by each view, so each time you take a look-see you need to give the topic a rating again, or the overall rating will start to decline over time.







Which is why I personally don't really put that much importance on the star rating, I go more on the number of posted replies and the number of views a topic has.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner, perhaps we should corner Dwight if he is at the BAGRS meeting this weekend and get him to post some instructions on the informative threads siteI don't think I'll make BAGRS this year Bill... I'll probably hit O Scale West instead as I've missed it for the last three years or so. What is it you want to know?


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Dwight 
I think Steve answered most of our questions 
It would be nice if someone would post instructions on posting threads and photographs. 
I had just about given up on it until Henner showed me around the site. 
I still have some problems due to my lack of knowledge. 
I just found out last month that if you want to post pictures, you should use the "add Reply" button vs the "Quick Reply". I was replying and then going in the edit mode to post the pictures. 
Maybe this info is already somewhere on the site and we just dont know where it is. 

By the way, your informative threads is great. I go there all of the time when I am not sure about something.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill

Most of the answers you're looking for are contained in the FAQ section, you can follow the path below or just click it it's a direct link.









MLS Menu-bar >> Resousces menu >> FAQ[/b]


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: This is fabulous. Real work of art. Thanks for the tips on hinge making, ball turning, forming tools, "MNC" and for the overall documentation.

Bob


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, it's not you. It's this stupid forum software. I had no idea there was a 'rating' system for the threads.

Every other site puts up a little prompt "if you like this article, rate it above" or similar.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I think David is just taling about the stars above our membership status (conductor, Foreman etc...) not how Henners page is rated. I'm not sure how he managed only 4 stars for his rating, obviously someone came in and decided to put in a low rating because they don't like Stout, or steam engines or just felt moody one morning/day/night or just by accident. Heck, I thought they were generated automatically for a long time till I clicked on them and found out we,,, the members who decide who gets top ratings. I gave his topic 5 stars, and no matter what the interface shows, it is a 5 star project and after seeing it live in person, I'd say it was 10 stars. Amazing workmanship and research.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

There have been no posts for a long time. I had completed the safety boards (wood cut/painted by Eric) and the diamond plates for the steps. This completed in my mind the haulage wagon:












and I handed it over to Eric for painting and weathering. He examined it, gave me a stern look and said: No it is not finished, there are a lot of details missing. Oh well, peer pressure







. First up on his laundry list were the intricate gear covers. I milled the side frames on my rotary table (Check out the 2 holes for the centers of the 2 radii):










I then made little spacers out of aluminum and attached the side frames with super glue:










Next step was to make the covers with fake rivets and soft solder them to the sides. While everything is clamped down and the solder penetrates, the super glue burns (as I was not sure if any nasty byproducts would do some harm, I did this outdoors) and the finished gear cover can easily be taken out of the spacers. Here the finished parts:










I added some more details like front covers with rivets and some unidentified wood boards as well as fake hex bolts. Now it is really ready for painting:










Next up: back to the Guinness proper, add the diamond plate covers and modify the burner for easy removal.
Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Now, that's what I call attention to detail! Adding detail in places that won't be seen when the haulage wagon is being used is dedication above and beynod the call of duty, but it will look that much cooler when you use the scratch built lift you are planing to build to lift the engine into the wagon.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The Guinness is finally done. Last rather complicated parts were the diamond plates covering part of the frame. The small rectangular cutouts in these plates are the spots where the hoist attaches to lift the loco into the haulage wagon. I intended to etch them but then milled/hack-sawed and filed them by gluing all 4 together.












and











The burner has been modified, so the jet can be taken out easily without having to partially dismantle the loco. Loco and haulage wagon will now be painted and weathered by Eric. My next project will be the hoist for lifting the loco into the haulage wagon. Thanks for reading this thread and stay tuned. 


Regards


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Wow, phenomenal! I've watched this project from the beginning and am blown away by the craftsmanship. I can't wait to see it in it's proper colors. Oh, and we can't go without a video of it running on it's own and in the wagon. 
Great job!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Outstanding job Henner! She looks fabulous!


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Real nice wish I had that talent like a bunch of you on this forum.. 

Great you did Henner!


----------



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Excellent job Henner!







Any chance of showing more of your rotary table setup? I'm very interested in how you set it up for the center holes. I have been thinking of making a jig for my table to index center holes and also make some different sized mandrels for different sized center holes. 

Jason


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner, here's the latest email from Ivor....

called into the musuem today and took some photographs along with a few measurements for Henner, unfortunately because the musuem was having an exhibition marking the 100yr Anniversary of the sinking of the TITANIC (which was built just 3 miles up the road) floor space was at a minimum and our little car and loco had been shunted below a dark circular staircase, so excuses for the quality. When I have a camera in my hand I tend to get caried awayso I have also included some other interesting railroad equipment if you wish to browse, Stan I will draw a little diagram with measurements and send them on with the next e.mail.
A musuem staff member did add that this car is NO.3 of 4 produced & would ask the curator to contact me if they had any more information available like plans etc.[/i]_

_ 

If you would like, you may contact him directly... ivorsnoddy dot hotmail dot com

He can send you a link to the latest images from the museum.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan,
thanks again for making the contact with Ivor. If it is not too late, please edit your post and delete his E-mail address or make it unreadable for automatic spam searchers! I will send Ivor an E-mail.
BTW, MLS obviously crashed today and the only way to get it stable was going back to April 17th. So some postings are lost. 

Regards


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 22 Apr 2012 09:41 PM 
{snip...}[/i] BTW, MLS obviously crashed today and the only way to get it stable was going back to April 17th. So some postings are lost. {snip...}[/i]
Henner, just a FYI on the lost replies (i.e. between April 16 thru 22) they have been captured and saved and will be included in the PDF of your topic.


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); @import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By SteveC on 23 Apr 2012 06:38 AM 
Posted By HMeinhold on 22 Apr 2012 09:41 PM 
{snip...}[/i] BTW, MLS obviously crashed today and the only way to get it stable was going back to April 17th. So some postings are lost. {snip...}[/i]
Henner, just a FYI on the lost replies (i.e. between April 16 thru 22) they have been captured and saved and will be included in the PDF of your topic.









Note, if you are subscribed to this topic, all of the lost replies will be in the notification emails that MLS sends out.

Beautiful work, Henner.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

As some of the photos were "lost", I asked Ivor if I could re post them. Here is the picture of the little Guinness:










What really caught my eye was the little passenger car which is just visible on the left of the loco. I have seen a blurry photo of one of them and was thrilled to learn that at least one of them survived. Ivor was so nice as to return to the museum and make some more photos: Here the car in all its beauty:











Due to the very sharp curves all cars had one loose wheel/axle. Here a picture of the axle:










But before I make a start on the passenger cars (or the freight cars for that matter), I want to build the hoist. I started with a baseplate (donated by Eric) and made some tram track, using the trusted method invented by HO trolley fans. They solder two pieces of rail in a T configuration together:










Here finally the dual gauge track with adapter rails to attach the "diorama" to LGB track on one side and "O" gauge track on the other. The hoist will straddle the section where the 2 tracks overlap. David volunteered to build a concept version in LEGO to check the feasibility of the hoist mechanism. Here the baseplate:











The track will be filled in with cobble stones. 

Thanks again Stan and Ivor for the information.
Regards


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

That's a great looking passenger car, Henner. Will you have yours' ready for the Summer Steamup in Sac., or will you still be working on the crane?


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

George,
the priority is on the hoist. But if I get the information I need I might have a passenger car ready too. Actually I am waiting for replies on both.

Regards


----------



## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Henner, I'm looking forward to seeing the finished Guinness, even if you don't have the hoist or passenger car completed. It's an amazing piece of machinery and beautiful workmanship.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys,
it's been a long time since I posted some progress. I started with the hoist, but the H beams for the A-frame did not look right. I could not get anything suitable here in the US (the Special Shape beams are way too small) and even the ones I got from Germany had to be milled down. The first attempt failed, as they turned out to be slightly twisted and so got odd-legged after cutting them down. Even the T-beams had to be cut out of H-beams as nothing suitable was available







. Anyway, here is the result so far:










The spreader bar is temporary; Mark will cut it on his CNC mill after the Sacramento event (we will be there on Saturday). I also ordered the non-rotating air cylinder for the lifting; unfortunately the vendor let me down and I won't get it until end of July. But anyway, the scene starts to look like the real thing. By the way the same scene has been set up at the Amberley Chalks Pit museum in the UK. You can actually see the haulage wagon by entering the following coordinates into Google map: 50.900766,-0.534766 (the green arrow points to the wagon). The Guinness hoist as seen at Amberley has been converted to electric operation at some point during its life.
Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Beautiful!


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I finally got the air cylinders and Mark cut the spreader bars on his CNC mill. Tests with air showed two problems: 1. Due to the compressibility motion is slightly bouncy and 2. even with a 0.006" restrictor I could not run it slow enough. I will convert the system to hydraulic, reusing the air cylinder. But anyway, it starts to look like the real thing:

Loco with the straps attached, waiting to be lifted:










Lowered into the haulage wagon:










Straps removed and spreader bar turned sideways, ready to roll:










Once the system is fully functional, I will make a video of the loading/unloading procedure.
Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Awsome!


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner, your project just gets better and better! Do you imbibe of the prototype beverage at all? 

Larry


----------



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Henner, 

I read and visit your posts at Buntbahn but I'm not able to write there. So I use this board to say : 

AWSOME AND GREAT WORK !!!! 

We spend our summer vacation in Ireland and yes, we've been to the Guinness store house too (I love Guinness). I was able to see the loco there and she's a real little beauty. I download the plans and maybe I'll build my own Guinness loco one day. But actually I', still busy with my Shay project. 

So please keep your good work comming up and I look forward to see all the models painted and the video of the hoist system. 

Regards from Germany, Gerd


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

When ya going to paint her?


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Had a chance to see Henner's Guinness run at the NSS. It's a work of art. Pictures do it no justice. 3 minutes to warm up and take off. Ran like a fine Swiss watch. Great work by a great builder.

Henner: Andy and I enjoyed meeting you and Mark at the steam up. Hope to see you again soon

vr Bob


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,
thanks for the kind words! Your custom engineer/driver was the icing on the cake, though I use the painted one only for special occasions.
Larry,
of course I had to vent some bottles, as I needed the labels for the future tank car







. 
Gerd,
Well, it is nice to get a favorable comment from a master-Shay-builder. By the way, Model Engineer currently runs a series about the Guinness as a ride-on loco. Unfortunately the gaps between the installments are agonizingly long...
Dwight,
I will never stop by your place any more, except for one of Cathy's delicious dinners







! I still need to do some tweaks, before I can have Eric paint the Guinness...
Bob,
thanks for the compliments. Meeting you and Andy was one of the highlights of the day at Sacramento. There is now a face behind the MLS threads.
Regards


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Always remember... what goes around COMES around!


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I started with the animation of the hoist. It is trickier than expected. When I ran it on air, it was very bouncy and I could not position the loco very well. I should have thought about the compressibility of air







. Also even with a very fine restrictor the speed was way too fast. In our Saturday meeting we came up with the idea of using a second cylinder (donated by Dennis) with a crank for precise movement. I would also switch from air to oil. I figured out that the oil for air tools should be compatible with the gaskets/materials within the air cylinder. A quick setup confirmed the feasibility:



However, though the movement is nice and slow and without jerks, two problems are still to be solved:
1. Due to the viscosity of the oil and the weight of the loco the force on the crank bearings are pretty high. The E-clips I used start to wear out. I will probably switch to ball bearings.
2. Both lines cannot be completely filled with oil. The reason is the asymmetry of the cylinders (piston rod on one side/no piston rod on the other side - different volumes), which is not a problem with air, but does not work with an incompressible fluid. I need to include an air cushion for the down stroke.
3. Filling and venting is fiddly. I need to include some valves.

I would appreciate any input from someone who has experience with "hydraulics"
Regards


----------



## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hydraulics do not work in a closed loop. There is a tank, pump, valves and cylinders. How about using a hand pump like filling a boiler and a two position valve. You change the valve to raise or lower the carrier. The end of the cylinder that is going to the tank has a flow control valve to control speed. The valve could be a rotary valve like a Mamod uses or a piston valve from a Ruby to change direction.










http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_machinery


----------



## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

In your picture it looks like the top line off of your pump goes to the lift end of your cylinder. I'd try putting the lift line on the bottom of your pump and completely disconnecting the "lowering" (top of the cylinder) line. From what it sounds like you have more than enough weight to retract the cylinder with the loco attached, and without it, the pump should still draw enough of a vacuum to lower your lift harness. This would keep both lines from fighting each other.


----------



## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

It looks like your supply cylinder is larger in bore than your lifting cylinder, this would be similar to gearing a motor up instead of down. So you experiencing higher force at the supply side, and less control on the lifting cylinder. 
if you had a smaller diameter bore Pump with a simple reservoir to pump to check valve to lifting cylinder. Add a small needle valve on a T connection in between the check valve and lifting cylinder. The needle valve should vent the oil back to the reservoir. Automobile automatic transmission fluid is closer to hydraulic fluid in viscosity. The other end of the cylinder can be vented to atmosphere. if the lifting cylinder still drops to fast you can add restriction on the vent valve. The hydraulic system I am describing is similar to a engine hoist or cherry picker for car engines. 
Hope this helps 
Steve


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the input. I should have explained in more detail how I came up with this solution and what my open questions are:

I found the idea of using 2 cylinders with a small air cushion somewhere on the internet (forgot where). I chose the larger cylinder because my friend Dennis donated it and it makes for a very compact unit. The piston rod has a 3/8-24TPI thread, so I need about 20 crank revolutions for a complete stroke. Moving the crank is not very hard, just the force on the bearing is pretty substantial. Positioning with the crank is very precise. Top and bottom of the "pump" cylinder are reversed to give an up stroke at the hoist with a clockwise rotation of the crank. I tried using fluid only from one side, but even with the loco the down stroke was jerky. So I decided to use the oil/air cushion on the down stroke to assist in the downward movement and at the same time prevent a lock-up. We briefly considered a pump, but a ram pump would not give a smooth movement, while a "real" hydraulic pump would be too expensive. After all, this hoist is just a little gag. Using the control cylinder as a pump and adding a reservoir/valves/restrictor is an option I will look into. As I said, the current setup works actually pretty well, apart from the fiddly job of filling/venting/creating the right amount of air cushion (too little -> lockup, too much -> jerks). This was my main question on where to put valves for filling/venting. I used the air tool oil, as I was not sure if other liquids would attack the piston/gland seals. Is transmission fluid compatible with buna/urethane?
Regards


----------



## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

I am not sure of the compatibility, in our industry a simple test is to soak the material in the fluid for a week or so. We also add heat but for this I would not. 

Steve


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys,
I am not sure my humble ramblings are still in line with the grand new direction of the forum







. But there still seem to be a couple of hard core scratch builders, who are interested in some how-to-do. My last addition to the Guinness diorama is a ladder. This is how I made it. 
First up I made a fixture to get the holes lined up:










The upper part was bent using this jig:









The parts were soldered together using spacers and a tiny drop of solder paste:









Here the finished ladder:









By the way, the air cushion assisted hydraulics works perfectly. Rick will come over next weekend and shoot a video of the loading/unloading of the Guinness loco.

Regards


----------



## Gerd (Jan 7, 2008)

Hi Henner, 

the ladder looks good and I can't wait to see that video *hehe* 
Keep up the good work and show us your details in How-To - we all can learn from the others ideas  

Cheers, Gerd


----------



## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner, 
Please keep the details of your projects coming, many of us still like to build and modify our engines. 
I have so many ideas for future projects I started exercising and eating better just so I live long enough to build them all. 

Thanks 
Steve


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

...I started exercising and eating better...I donno... the cure sounds worse than the disease.















Looking real good Henner!! Nice work!!









As I don't wish to upset you so I'm not going to ask when you're going to paint her. Moooooohahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## nsimpson (Mar 15, 2010)

Awesome post...! 
I totally agree with the sentiment, as I think many would on this forum.. I plan to do the same - at least it is a plan! 
There is also the mental factor of playing with trains which increases both the quality and term of life expectancy...! 

Cheers, Neil. 
Eat, drink, and play well...!


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Saturday Rick came over and made a video of the loading/unloading of the haulage wagon. Main purpose was to demonstrate C&F of the hydraulic/air system:





Before I forget: Rick also donated the beautiful figures, so the diorama won't look deserted!
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

It's been ages since I posted news in this thread. Some changes in life (good ones) caused me to slow down and focus on other activities. But now I am back







. I started detailing the hoist. As I do not yet have the permission to publish the high resolution picture of the Guinness yard, here a low res sample:










The location is:
http://www.ngrm.org.uk/Collections/...lway/GS001

I started with the railing. This has little balls where the rods are connected. I used 1/8" brass balls from McMaster and drilled them in the self centering 4 yaw chuck:










Next step was cross drilling at exactly 90Deg. This was done again in the 4 jaw with a piece of wire and 2 posts. Wire and posts were of course removed before drilling:










and the finished joint:










The railing looks like this:










I also detailed the spreader bar with gazillions of rivets. I punched rivets to the edge of a wide brass sheet and then cut the narrow strip.










Currently Eric is working on the wooden tower which houses the hydraulics. More next week!
Regards


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Henner 
I haven't been tracking this like I would like to because the sorting on the main Live Steam page is off and they took away the subscribe to function. 
I am lucky to be able to see your work in person but these postings on how you did everything is something I will be able to go back on and use these techniques on future projects. 
Hopefully Dwight or someone will put this thread in the Informative threads index when it is finished.


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

That lifter is really neat and has that steam era look down perfectly! 

I have often puzzled over making neat ball and tube railings ... you have a very clean system there, easily repeatable and accurate!


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys,

nothing exciting, just puttering along. On top of the hoist is a tank, may be for water. I tried to make it out of brass, but it did not work very well. So I decided to use Styrene. Here the result:



Eric made a wooden tower for the hydraulics:



It does not yet fit as I have to reroute some of the hydraulic lines. When he gave it to me, he said: "A functioning lock would be nice". When he is right he is right so I started building some "jewelery" 



Top row shows some brackets for guy wires, the bottom row hinges and a lock, all in 1:20.3 and fully functional! If someone is interested in how I build them, let me know.
Regards


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Always interested in how you build stuff Henner, as I'm sure are most others. Show us.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

If someone is interested in how I build them, let me know. I'd venture that a goodly number would like to learn how you made them.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

$*&^, I had hoped to get away not having to explain how I made the lock, as I did not take enough photos







. But here goes:
First I cut a strip of brass and drilled 2 holes for a piece of 1/16" brass tubing, then bent the ends and pushed the tube through the holes. I did this to keep the tube from moving during silver soldering:









After soldering I cut off the ends and soft soldered the remaining piece to a sacrificial piece of brass, similar to what I described previously with the hinges. Then I cut slots with a 0.04" (1mm) mill bit, cutting only a couple of 1000ths each pass:










Slot 1 and 2 go to a depth just shy of the brass strip. #3 removes 1/2 of the tubing. 4, 5, and 6 cut into the sacrificial brass to separate the parts. Making the bolt was tricky, as I could not cross drill 0.032" brass rod. I ended up silver soldering pieces of 0.010" brass wire to the 0.032" rod. I have a fixture to hold things in place:










The 2 finished L shaped pieces were fiddled into the body of the lock and a smaller piece of tube pushed over the two thin pieces of the L. I attached the little tube with Loctite, drilled the bolt holes and finally dunked the completed lock into blacken-it. 
Regards


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Holy cow Henner---that is neat but what a project in micro work!


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I saw this little jewel last Saturday and this picture does not do it justice. It is so small you can not make out any of the detail with the naked eye. You literaly need a magnifying glass


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Amazing Henner. I can't believe how small they are. I've got to try this out the next chance I get


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

what form of silver solder did you use on this bit? I only have 1/16dia wire which would probably not work on so small a part.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric, Bill, Rick,

thanks for the kind words (Scratch builders need some encouragement every once in a while...).
Eric, I use the standard 1/16" silver solder, squeeze it in the (machine) vice, cut off tiny slivers with a cutter and place them on the joint together with flux. The trick is to warm the joint very slowly and intermittently, so the flux does not bubble and shift the sliver of silver solder. 
Regards


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have done similar and it does work well! but you have gone to the extreme!


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Henner, I had not been following your log but just finnished reading the whole thing. Wow! What a neat little critter. Your work is simply amazing! I just hit the 5 star botton about 10 times. Until I read this thread I didn't even know where the stars came from or what they meant. Thanks so much for posting.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Winn,

thanks for reading through the whole story. I promise to bring it to an end, once the hoist is done. But currently this project is on hold, as Eric (mostly) and I worked on a different type of steam train. I am trying to condition my little granddaughter to become a train fan (I hope the moderators will tolerate this little detour):










So no Guinness updates for some weeks as I will be baby-sitting







.
Regards


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Well done as usual Henner ... If she doesn't get into trains it is not from lack of a proper introduction! 

That is a sweet little tank engine, and my favorite is the "caboose"


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, I think you are going to confuse her on the scale of things though


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

OK,

finally I got back to my Guinness project. Eric build a wooden hoist tower for me and painted/weathered it. He might tune in on how he did it. I added the hinges/lock and the roof. The roof was made out of tin sheet from K&S treated with blacken-it. To my surprise it turned out a nice rust color. And of course the door opens and can be locked:




























The brackets on top are for the guy wires.
I decided to rework the hydraulic lines, so the tower is not yet mounted.

For my next projects I need 3D models, so I practiced by designing the flat cars for the Guinness:



















Some parts (axle boxes, wheels) have been printed and will be cast in Zamac (Thanks to my friend Dennis for 3D printing and working on the moulds), the frame and the truck plate laser cut and the rest humble hand work.
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The tower is now mounted. Eric suggested to use piano wire for the guy wires. This worked pretty well. The original hoist did not have turnbuckles to tension the wires. So I annealed 00-90 screws, squeezed them in the machine vice and drilled them. I also redid the hydraulic lines. They are now all plastic threaded through brass tubing for looks. With the tower safely attached I am seeing the end of the tunnel with this project. Still to do: Some fake control valves and cobble stones and then -> Eric for painting. 





The screws will be shortened a bit. 

Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis and I tried to figure out, how the valves for lifting/lowering the loco work. By blowing up the picture and guesstimating, we came up with the following solution:










The upper valve seems to be a shuttle, which pumps the hydraulic fluid into the lifting cylinder (up) or drains it (down). The lower valve seems to be a throttle to control speed. Almost like a steam engine







.
The lower valve is made of bits and pieces from the PM Research castings tree, while the rest is mostly K&S rods/tubing. This setup is of course just for looks, as the hoist is controlled by a hidden cylinder with a crank handle.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, 
You just raised the bar on modeling once again... I half expected the valves to be working... 

Craig


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Craig,

With an outer diameter for the pipes of about 1/16" a functional pump would probably need a superfluid like Helium at close to absolute zero, too chilly for me







. Today I installed the fake valves/piping:



Next step: cobble stones.


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Slightly off topic: Every Fathers Day weekend we (BAGRS) are invited to run our trains at Roaring Camp near Santa Cruz, CA (Google coordinates 37.040834,-122.062856). This year we set up our new layout again right near the tracks of the 3' tourist line. As we added a third rail for 32mm (on our layout of course







) I could run my Guinness without the adapter car. This is how the following photo was shot (no editing!) with the Guinness and former West Side Lumber #7. In the background you can also see Ron's almost finished Nina (designed by Bob Sorensen): 










Of course we rode the train up the mountain. The big Shay struggled to get the heavy long train up the almost 10% grade.
Regards


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric helped me with the cobblestones. He had some 6 year old Magic Sculp epoxy putty as leftover from his job. We used this material, as it will not be affected by oil/water from the live steam loco: 

http://www.magicsculp.com/

I made some stamps (I had to force myself not to make them too precisely):









The material was tinted grey to give it a base color in case something flakes off:









This is how the real track looked like:



I need to add some more details and then everything goes to Eric for painting.

By the way, Rob ( he just finished his coal fired C-25), Bill (Uintah build) and I live within a 10mile radius and meet regularly to exchange information. Rob and Bill posted here in MLS. We will also be in Sacramento.
Regards


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Wow... always a big Wow with your work... 

"...I had to force myself not to make them too precisely." Something mystical about that, like, what sort of force is required to extract randomness out of orderliness? And how would you know if it was successful?  

Awesome work...! 

===>Cliffy


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The project is almost done (it took too long anyway). The last entry will be pictures of the finished diorama/loco after painting. This will be done mostly by my friend Eric. I never liked the "gas lights" which I had acquired at a swap meet. So I decided to make my own and also make them functional. Here the result: 



The "gas lights" proper are flickering warm white LEDs. The leads are hidden in simulated gas lines (1/16" K&S tubing). I got the LEDs here: http://shop.evilmadscientist.com/co...rticle/189
Regards


----------



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Neat! The lighting really makes that picture.


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Henner-- 

This has been a really neat project! that photo is fantastic. If it were mine, I would have to think long and hard before covering the brass with paint, it looks great as it is!


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

With some renewed interest coming up about the loco I found, that some of the most important pictures have been lost during the last software upgrade. Here 2 pictures of the loco and the hoist which was used to lift the loco into the adapter car:









and









Regards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks even better than the last time I saw it.... but when is it going to get painted?


----------



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys,
it's been a long time since I posted something here. Also my host for pictures is no longer available for new photos. Anyway, here some updates: I built 4 flatcars. The steel parts are water jet cut, the wheels cast in Zamak in a steel mold and the axleboxes 3D printed:










I then built 3 of the charming passenger cars which were used to show visitors around the brewery in Dublin. One of the cars survives in a museum in Belfast. The bulkheads are cut with a CNC mill, the frame is wood, the axle boxes are 3D printed and the bench parts laser cut. By the way, my friend Dennis owns this 40W CO2 laser, which is now available for less than $300! The support of the canopy is made of 1/16" brass rod and silver soldered.









and









The canopy was made by laminating cloth on tissue paper and then laser cut:










Finally the completed train on the BAGRS (Bay Area Garden Railway Society) 
portable layout:










This Guinness build is featured in the September/October issue of "Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette"
I hope I got the sharing options right so the pictures are visible.
Regards


----------



## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Henner, pictures 3 and 5 are not displaying.
You have now made me thirsty for a black n' tan. 

Andrew


----------



## Bill C. (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner, I enjoyed reading the article in the most recent copy of the Gazette. which arrived just a couple of days ago. When I was in Dublin I took a picture of the builder's plate on one of the locomotives, which I believe was number 17.

Amazing project!


----------



## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I just realized that an earlier post, from way back to 2010, had a link that was no longer valid, to the picture of Bill Schipp's magnificent scratch built Guinness locomotive. I'm not sure anyone ever goes back that far, but to correct things, here it is...


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Henner
I just checked to see if I may be able to see the two missing photos as we are both on Google+ but no go
Why don't you try starting over with the two photos to see if they will take the second try


----------

