# Why Two Whistles?



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a video I took of a Shay at the Georgetown Loop. The Shay has two whistles. One whistle is used when stopping and the other when starting. Was this normal practice?







-Jim


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> The Shay has two whistles.


Jim, you will have to explain that question. On the video, I see two whistles mounted next to each other. But only one is used: 1 toot for the stop and 2 toots when starting - from the same whistle.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

I see it Jim. The black whistle is used when the stopped signal is given, the brass whistle used for when starting to move.

I don't know the answer, but there's an auditory difference between the whistles, would that have something to do with it?


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

It is fun to hear the two different whistles. 

One toot when moving means apply brakes (for hand brakes) of when stopped says the train is secured. Two toots when moving is to release hand brakes or to acknowledge a signal, two when standing means the Loco will move forward. Three when standing means the Loco will move backwards. There are other whistle signals too, the most familiar being the road crossing signal, two longs, a short and another long. 

I expect the two whistles on that engine are just for fun!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Tourist RR's often have a 'Guest whistle' installed... something that belongs to a friend or major donor that is being used just for the satisfaction of the owner. Sometimes they are mounted just for a weekend and sometimes they are almost on permanent loan. The original or regular whistle if often left in place because it is the one that 'belongs' there.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah! Probably why one (most likely original) is black and the other is shiny. Thanks Charles!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I think the answer is "because we can." The engineer in the video is a friend of mine, so I e-mailed him to see if there was any specific reason. I know one of the loop's old locomotives (when the previous operators were running things) had two whistles. I think it was #40. I asked then, and the response was "why not?" 

I know historically, it was known for engineers to have their own whistles which they'd attach to the loco they were running that day. If the locomotive's steam dome was fitted with a second steam tap, it would be easy just to mount a second whistle to that instead of pulling the old one off. 

Later,

K


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

East Broad Top said:


> I know historically, it was known for engineers to have their own whistles which they'd attach to the loco they were running that day.


Is this how/why it was said that people could tell when Casey Jones came through town by the way of the whistle? Switched the whistle before running a locomotive?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, Casey was known for having his own whistle and would either install it on a separate tap or swap it with the engine's present one... and sometimes the previous engineer also had his own and Casey would have to install his because when he got the engine the previous engineer might have taken his private one and the engine would otherwise be left with no whistle at all.

Engineers could also be identified with how they blew the whistle even if it was the standard one on the engine. This was known as the 'Engineer's Fist' or "Quilling" the whistle. It was claimed that some engineers were so adept at pulling on the whistle cord that they could produce sounds that some people said were like spoken words. There are legends of engineers having a quarrel with a town and were able to express their dislike of the town folk by blowing obscenities on the whistle while going through the town. I seriously doubt the legends.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, if you get an answer I'd love to hear about it. Thanks!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

From Will, "because we can." 

Later,

K


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Some steam engines had whistle and an air horn. The air horn got used in those difficult must get their attention case. Sounds odd, but people almost become memorized by steam whistles. Then all of a sudden a loud BLAAAAH! Would scare the crap out of folks not expecting it. That was the idea....get their attention.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Mesmerized, I believe is the word....

Old tales had the company horn was a single note and the engineer would add a melodious chime whistle. Each hogger would have a signature sound. Families across wide valleys were reassured that their man was still safe on the road....

John


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

There is a company that is reproducing steam locomotive whistles and can make someone a replica of Casey Jones's whipporwill whistle. The original being in one of the museums. They have a website, just cant remember the companies name for the life of me at the moment. They have videos on youtube of all the whistles being blown on steam. Mike


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## Trainwreckfilms (Aug 19, 2009)

What I have been told from friends who have worked/work at the Georgetown Loop is "because why not? there is no real reason and that's why you don't see it many other places. Just more opportunity for different sounds"


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Not related, but I used to work in Commerce City, and there was a BNSF engineer who switched the refinery area, and he would play songs on his horn all night! My favorite was "I've been workin' on the railroad." He was good, really good at it...

Robert


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Just in case anyone is really interested in horns and whistles, there's a quarterly magazine, published once in a while, called Horn & Whistle: h[URL="http://hornandwhistle.com/"]ttp://hornandwhistle.com/ Another[/URL] obscure hobby I have a mild interest in.

I had to miss the largest annual show of horns and whistles last weekend in St. Claire, MI. Here's the flyer, to give you an idea what that six-hour show is about: http://stclairontheriver.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/2016-WOW-Brochure_bothsides0001.pdf

If you like steam whistles, train horns, fog horns, emergency sirens and the like, you might find this amusing.

JackM


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## Cataptrra (Mar 16, 2015)

Pete Thornton said:


> Jim, you will have to explain that question. On the video, I see two whistles mounted next to each other. But only one is used: 1 toot for the stop and 2 toots when starting - from the same whistle.


watch again, the black one is used for the STOP, the gold one is used for the 2 toots{which I thought was supposed to be 3 for reverse, 2 for forward?} just before starting to move.

So both are being used. 

And each has its own distinctive sound too, the black lets someone know the train is stopped or stopping. the gold for start up, which I believe would also be the same whistle for blowing for the Crossings too.

Replied before reading a lot of the other responses here first, so lots of interesting info here, and my questions answered as well.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Cataptrra said:


> watch again, the black one is used for the STOP, the gold one is used for the 2 toots{which I thought was supposed to be 3 for reverse, 2 for forward?} just before starting to move.
> 
> So both are being used.
> 
> ...


 
In that video I hear 3 toots just before the engine starts to move, but they are not as distinct as they could be.

But, yes, on most roads, one toot means either "Please stop" (some trains had a cord that ran throughout the passenger cars and was connected to a small whistle in the engine cab so the Conductor could indicate to the Engineer what was required) or "Going to stop" (so the Engineer could tell the Conductor and others what was going to happen) if in motion, and "Have stopped" if not moving (telling the crew that it was okay to disembark passengers because the train was done positioning and not going to move again.

Two sounds when stopped means, "Going to go forward" and three sounds when stopped means, "Going to go backward"...

Unfortunately, the definitions of "Forward" and "Backward" are poor. On some roads, the definition is in relation to the direction the engine is facing and others it is in relation to where the engine is in relation to the train. 

i.e.: if the engine is facing the train then which way is "Forward"? Is forward "Pulling the train" and backward "Pushing" it? What if the engine is presently hooked to the caboose but facing away from it? Is Forward considered moving the train as a whole with the caboose following or is the train actually running the other way?

Now, which way is the front of an engine? Is that the end opposite the cab? Might be true on 99% of steam locos, but it wasn't on early Diesels! (What about a Double-ended Fairly? Or a "Center cab Diesel"?)

Some roads wanted to change the meaning to compass directions, i.e.: 2 toots would be North or West and 3 toots would be South or East... but is that true compass direction or in relation to "RR North"? i.e.: the track may be a North-South, but a train facing compass North might be truly headed RR South because the track is in the middle of a gigantic "S" curve.

The meaning is often peculiar to a particular Railroad and is not something easily interpreted by the general public. But if you work for the RR, you'd better know what it means THERE!


In relation to two (or more) whistles on an engine, that too, would depend on the rules of the road... I doubt if the particular "sound" of the whistle (single note or chime... hooter, 3 note chord, 4 note chord, etc.) would have meaning in regard to indicating train control.


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