# Question about scale



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi, this is probably a dumb question, but I'm trying to figure out the difference in scale with Bachmann's "Spectrum" series and the "G Scale" (Big Hauler?) loco's. I've got one of the latter, and I'd like to make my purchases compatible. Is it a simple thing, as in Spectrum = 1:20.3, and Big Hauler (or whatever) = 1:22.XX?? And is there a complete listing on the net of their products? Haven't been able to find one, and their site seems very abbreviated in its offerings.

As you can tell, I'm very much the newbie to this hobby!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If it is called SPECTRUM it is 1:20.3. Otherwise it is most likely 1:22.5. 

Chuck N


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy

The Spectrum line is Fn3 or 1:20.3 scale while the Big Hauler is 1:22.5 scale. Both are narrow gauge and the Big Hauler is the same scale as LGB and other older narrow gauge equipment. Since Fn3 represents 3 foot gauge on 45 mm track, ie 15 mm to the foot (which is the same as 1:20.3), it is correct for most American narrow gauge prototypes. For that reason, Fn3 has become the predominant narrow gauge and in fact there has been no new offerings in 1:22,5 scale for some time.

Regards ... Doug


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

The Spectrum series is 1:20.3 and represents 3 foot gauge on 45mm track. Another manufacture of this scale is AMS / Accucraft 

Big Haulers are 1:22.5 and represent 1 meter gauge on 45mm track. Another manufacture of this scale is LGB 

Because of the difference in scale the Spectrum line of products is physically bigger than the Big Hauler items. I don’t run them together because I don’t like the size difference, but many do not mind running them. 

Have a Look on http://www.staubintrains.com/ they have a nice list of products that are available. 

I seem to remember a thread on this subject not long ago? Could someone post the link? 

Hope this helps 
Alan


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Chuck, Doug and Alan, 

Thanks very much for the concise info; that helps a lot. 

One other thing, are the HLW loco's 1:29? You see, I bought my first loco from them (a 4-4-0); and my second came with a set from Bachmann (a 4-6-0 Big Hauler). The latter is fairly large in comparison; but maybe it's simply due to prototypical differences in size? 

This is embarrassing, I'm a draftsman by trade, and should know my scale factors... and I thought I had this worked out! But thanks so much for your info, and so quickly too.

Regards, 
Cliff


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff, the Hartland 4-4-0 is supposedly 1:24 scale, as are many other Hartland items.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Regardless of "said scale," some of the Big Hauler stuff looks fine with the larger Spectrum engines. In fact, I think that the Big Hauler gondolas look better and more to scale with the Spectrum engines than any of the Spectrum 20-foot rolling stock which seem small by comparison.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Tony; that explains a lot. 

And it means that the Mogul I want to get should be Hartland, vs. Bachmann (Spectrum) -- so as not to have grossly different scales. You see, it's going to take a year to prep my back yard for the layout I want; and to spice things up in the mean time, I'm trying to build up a small roster representing the V&T... and these locos I bought had that lettering. Probably a good time to learn how to re-decal an engine...! 

Cliff


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the heads up, Todd. What a beautiful layout!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By CliffyJ on 05/21/2009 6:24 PM
Thanks for the heads up, Todd. What a beautiful layout!


Thanks, appreciate it. To see more go to:

http://www.tortoiseandlizardbash.com


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy

The preceding replies have answered your question regarding Bachmann scales. The following links far exceed what you asked for, but since you are new to the railroad/way modeling hobby it may provide a reference that you can use as questions of scale come up, may I suggest that you make bookmarks of these two links on your system. These references cover the hobby on a world-wide basis and even there it's not all inclusive in it's coverage. Hopefully you'll find the information of use.

 *Rail transport modeling scales *

*Rail transport modeling scale standards*


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks very much Steve. I've seen the second article, but not the first. And yes, I'll bookmark them -- and read them  

If you all could stand another question. If I want to model in 1:22.5 or 1:24, what is the proper "code" of rail I should shop for in track and switches? Or does "code" speak to something different?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy

In large scale/G-scale or whatever term you wish to apply to it although there are multiple scales they all use a track gauge of 45mm also called #1 gauge track.

Referencing your two examples of scale...
[*] Using 45mm gauge track and a scale of 1:24, then the 45mm would be representing a prototype gauge of 3 ft. 6 in. (42 in.) also known as Cape Gauge.

[*] Using 45mm gauge track and a scale of 1:22.5, then the 45mm would be representing a prototype gauge of 1 metre (39.3701 in.).
[/list] As you can see from the above, in reality neither of the above model scale/gauge combinations actually accurately represent American prototypes using the 45mm gauge track. The actual correct model scale/gauge combinations would be as follows.
[*] For American 3 ft. gauge narrow gauge prototype on 45mm gauge model track the correct scale is 1:20.3 (i.e. NMRA S-1.2 Standards for Scale Models; Fn3).

[*] For American standard gauge (4 ft. 81/2 in., 56.5") on 45mm gauge model track the correct scale would be 1:32 (NMRA S-1.3 Deep Flange Scales; G or 3/8" Scale).
[/list]


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Roger that, Steve; but where does the "code" number come into play? Isn't this something having to do with the physical size of the rail?


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## Guest (May 21, 2009)

CliffyJ, 

i know, most will disagree, but to my eyes the Big Hauler does look a bit bigger, than 1:22.5 
the caboose, that comes in the set must be somewhere between 1:22.5 and 1:24 
and the boxcar, well, too big for 1:29 , too small for 1:24 
and, before everybody starts scolding me, i measure mainly by the height and width of the rolling stock.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

To clarify Todd's statement (Great looking railroad!), the so-called "20-foot" cars from Bachmann are neither "Spectrum" nor 1:20.3, despite what the box says. They came on the market right about the same time as the Shay, and Bachmann for whatever reason decided to market them to go with that, disregarding the drastic difference in size. The "20-foot" cars are actually 1:22.5 models of some very early (c. 1870s) narrow gauge equipment, which measured all of 6' wide and around 23' long. 

Not coincidentally, the "regular" 1:22.5 Big Hauler stuff scales out similarly when measured in 1:20.3 (about 25' long and 6' 8" wide). The only cars that don't scale out too well in 1:20 are the passenger cars and cabooses--cars where humans typically inhabit. My rule of thumb--carry a ruler with you when you go to the hobby shop. 

Here's an example--the car on the left is 1:20.3--roughly the same size as Bachmann's "Spectrum" 1:20.3 box car. The car on the right is built from their 1:22.5 box car. Both scale accurately for prototypes in 1:20.3. Yup, the early stuff could be small. 










Here's a comparison of passenger cars--not quite so easy to disguise. 



















Later, 

K


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Code 332 is the common, which equates to very heavy rail in real life. But in the garden it’s tough and robust. I have started to use Code 250 which seems to be a compromise between scale size and real world toughness. Smaller codes do exist, eg 215.


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

Code does refer to the height of the rail in thousands of an inch ie code 332 is rail 332/1000 inches high.

Most modellers use code 332 rail because most commercial track is made with it. It is tough and durable ... the primary benefit is that it withstands being walked on for ground level track.

I personally find it objectionally large and I model in Fn3. Most narrow gauge lines used rail not heavier then 65 pounds to the yard and this is well represented by code 215 rail. Llagas Creek and others make track and rail this light. Code 250 is often sought out as a compromise and AMS SV and Llagas Creek and others all make track in this size. Lighter track looks better but of course it is not quite as robust.

Regards ... Doug


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy

The term 'code' when used in reference to model track, is addressing the height of the rail from the bottom of the foot to the top of the rail head, expressed in thousandths of an inch. For example 'code 332' track tells you that the rail measures 0.332" from the bottom of the foot to the top of the railhead.










Another problem that you have to watch out for when choosing your 'rail code' is how large are the flanges on the wheels of the equipment you have. Some flanges are very large and if used with lower code rail the flanges will hit the ties and cause problems. The reason for larger than prototypical flanges is they're more forgiving in the the track work, less likely to derail with uneven track work.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

CliffyJ, 
I run a Hartland 4-4-0 and use the Aristo Stainless steel track. The flanges are ok. Unlike other scales, G switches usually are designed for the cars to roll on their flanges through the frogs. This is to prevent wheel drop and rough riding. Too bad all flanges aren't the same..... even from the same manufacturer. 

The driver's flanges on my Jupiter are; 0.1175. 

Before you get too concerned I'd like to mention that G gauge is not the best medium for scale fidelity. I did that in On3, when I was making my move to G, I started thinking of how much more detail could be added... Until the salesman mentioned the 10' Rule... if you can't see it from 10' away don't worry about it! What a shock that was. Yet now I do have a better grip on it. 
First as an outdoor toy, there were many allowances built in, few would pursue this hobby if the trains couldn't stay on the track so oversize flanges and taller rail became the de facto standard... Another major concession is our trains run on circles tighter than my old HO did. 10' dia. = 5'r = 60" Scale 1:24, O scale 1:48; 30", HO (aprox half of O) so r =15" ! 18"r was the free in-set track which off the top of my head would be 12' diameter track, but whose average garden has that much room? 
I find I'm happiest with what makes me happy. Before a friend introduced me to the joys of exploring old abandoned mines near by, my theme was cattle and oil. Now that my rock garden road is covered with ore stained rocks and sparkly specimins of all colors, my new theme is mining and local history and my favorite mine. Thus The Vail and Total Wreck (mine) RR was born. I think I'll be buying alot of V & T rolling stock and adding an E! Already the tipple is 3/4 done and sits fine next to the track.... maybe I'll get to finish it one day, but there's still the Tucson expansion and the bat R/c conversions, sidetracked by re-doing the markers to class lights and adding a back light that I'm fabricating.... 

Yes folks will state that 1:24 isn't a true scale for the gauge, but I think the smaller standard gauge looks fine and is easy to capture the flavor of backwoods ng, even if it isn't 36" and is 42" .... that didn't seem to bother all those On30 folks! 
One more thing about 1:24; many other modeling hobbies use 1:24, such as sailing ships and doll houses which can be a fine source of detail parts.... 1/2" =1' Any ruler works. 

John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks all, for the low-down on rail code, and scale comparisons. Great info! 

Good on you John for going with the mining theme... I was a "mine hunter" and amatuer Comstock historian in years past. So the layout I'm designing has, as a main purpose, that of being an excuse to accurately model several Comstock mine works, and leverage some knowledge along those lines. 

There's so much info in all your responses that I can't reply to it all; but I sure appreciate the education. 

Regards, 
Cliff


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Cliffyj, 

Don't overlook the offerings of Aristo Classic series 1:24 
and USA Trains American series and Work train series 1:24 
Not quite the same scale but close to 1:22.5 

Andrew


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