# walk around systems



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello to All
  I am looking to add more power and a walk around system to my layout.  Right now I have about 125' of LGB track outside that is powered by a tech 3 transformer.  The tech 3 has just a little bit more power to it than the stock LGB starter unit that I was using.  I really like the idea of being able to follow along with the train or be able to control it from a distance so I was looking into getting a system.  What do I need and what do you guys recommend?  I was looking into Aristocraft products.  I want to upgrade my power.  The 10 amp is only about $10 more than than a 5 so I would go with that.  With an eye towards expansion in the near future I like the walk around controller over the basic engineer.  
    If I'm correct all that I would need to run one train is the 10 amp juice box running current through the unit that receives the settings from the handheld transmitter?  The engine doesn't need any mods.   Do I also need a throttle unit?   What if I wanted to run 2 engines at a time say one in the yard and the other out on the main? 
    The walk around control that I'm looking at is # 55470 and the 10 amp unit is #55460.  
  Thanks
  Todd


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## jwvine29 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have one and It works great for one train all you need is the Transmiter, Reciver and 10 amp box, If you are going to run more than one train you will need to either Isolate the two tracks from each other and you will have to get another reciver for the second track, Or you could get the onboard set up times however many trains you want to run, install them in each loco and with one 55470 and 55460 you will be able to run them on the same track at diffrent times. Hope this helps.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For Aristocraft trackside (27mhz black units)I would go with the Elite at 13 amps, not the 10 amp Ultima. 

The Ultima under load drops voltage, the Elite is a regulated supply and runs at 22 volts. There is an adjustment in the Elite and I set mine to 24 volts. 

Under full load the Elite will maintain its full voltage and have no ripple, the Ultima will lower the voltage and have ripple. 

Also, the trackside can be run in linear mode and be compatible with most manufacturers engines/sound units. 

There are other R/C units out there and this forum does have a separate area for power. Read what others are doing.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By jwvine29 on 01/13/2008 9:07 PM
I have one and It works great for one train all you need is the Transmiter, Reciver and 10 amp box, If you are going to run more than one train you will need to either Isolate the two tracks from each other and you will have to get another reciver for the second track, Or you could get the onboard set up times however many trains you want to run, install them in each loco and with one 55470 and 55460 you will be able to run them on the same track at diffrent times. Hope this helps.


Do you need the trackside unit (*55471*) to do this? I thought you could just put a 75 mhz reciever into each loco, and run them with a single transmitter. I don't think you'd need the 55471. Or am I wrong about that?


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure, the 75MHz transmitter will run a number of receivers. I thought the receiver worked from batteries only, but Lewis tells me it works from track power too. Didn't know that.


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Todd, with a 75 MHz receiver in each locomotive, you can run them independently on track power with separate transmitters. However that assumes you are running Aristo-Craft Plug and Play locomotives. If not, you must custom wire the receiver into the locomotives wiring. You should also be made aware that this receiver is plagued with range problems from radio noise generated from the motor(s). I would not recommend the 75 MHz receiver for someone beginning to experiment with radio control unless they are installing them in a tender or trailing car away from the motor(s).
 
The Aristo-Craft 27 MHz trackside receiver with the Ultima power supply is a bulletproof system and is not plagued with range problems. It is easy to install as there are only four wires to hook up: two to the power supply and two to the tracks. If you want to run a separate engine in a yard, isolate the tracks and add another 27 MHz receiver and transmitter. You must be careful however not to cross over from one block to the other with a locomotive or car with track power pick-ups or a short may occur. 
 
Another alternative is to run one locomotive with track power and the other with battery power. Many people use the 27 MHz receiver in a trailing car or tender with a battery pack. The battery pack provides the power and the receiver controls the speed and direction of the locomotive. Again there are only four wires to hook up: two to the battery pack and two to the locomotive.
 








 
The track power wires on the locomotive will have to be unplugged so that battery power is not fed back into the tracks. Aristo-Craft Plug and Play locomotives come with a switch to do this, and it is an easy task on most other locomotives.
 
If you tell us what locomotives you intend to run, we can provide you with more specific advice.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This is all extremely hard to follow. I DON"T want to do battery power--maybe sometime in the future, but not now--but I do want remote control in track power. 

It's very hard to figure out anything at the RCS website--things like where do you buy it, what does it cost, what do you need, etc--and it all seems to be about battery power. Could I use RCS with track power? I can't tell

Same thing with Airwire--what is it, what does it do, what does it cost--can I use track power--it's surprisingly hard to figure out.



I have an old-style aristo pacific--is it hard to install a 75 mhz in that? 

Then I'd like to install the 75 mhz TC in an LGB mogul--how hard is it? It can't be THAT hard (how may times have I said that and regretted it!!)

Aristocraft is the easiest to deal with in terms of price and also explanatory info, but even they are hard to figure out.

Range won't be a problem--my layout is roughly 50x20 feet


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2008)

Yes you can use RCS with track power, Tony has a section on the site in reference to that here is the link for the pricing:

rcs-rc.com/track_control/TITAN-10-10C_prices.pdf

below is the link to take you to trackside power, TheRCS Titan system:
rcs-rc.com/




cale



.......Call Dave Goodson for more info.....dnkgoods.home.mindspring.com/index.html


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Thank you, but I think I'm just really slow!

I'm not sure why I need the titan unit. I want to run 2-3 locos on one track with remote control, using track pwer. At present I have a 10 amp 24 volt power supply going into an aristo 10 amp throttle. 

Aristocraft assures me that if I get a TE transmitter and three TE 75 mhz. on board recievers I can do that (assuming I can wire up the receivers).

The titan seem to be a power supply--would I have to have that power supply even if I had RCS onboard decoders/receivers?

Thanks!


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Yes you can use the 75 MHz receiver in an old Pacific. The tender would be the best place to put it. The tender is large, easy to open, and having the receiver away from the motor should eliminate any range problems.
 
To install the receiver, the adapting connector for custom installations must be removed (snapped off) from the main part of the board and plugged into the bottom of the receiver. There are seven wires soldered to the connector as follows:
Red - Track Power Left Side Orange - Motors Left Side White - Rear Headlights (negative) Blue - Lights Common (positive) Yellow - Front Headlights (negative) Grey - Motors Right Side Black - Track Power Right Side [/list] 









As the Pacific does not have a rear light, you do not have to concern yourself with the white wire.


These next three diagrams show the original wiring circuits for a first generation Aristo-Craft Pacific.
































The track power buss is comprised of two long brass strips running under the boiler to a location behind the firebox wall. The portion of the power bus behind the firebox wall has four holes for screws and loop connectors.


You can connect the red and black wires from the receiver there to pick up power. 


The motor wires will have to be detached from the left side of the power buss and the right switch in the cab; and connected to the orange and grey wires of the receiver.


The headlight wires will have to be detached from the left side of the power buss and the left switch in the cab; and connected to the yellow and blue wires of the receiver.


I am not familiar with LGB products, but someone else may be able to help with them.


I would recommend you find a club or other large scale enthusiasts in your area that could help you with these projects. It would not only add to the enjoyment of the hobby, it could save you a lot of time and trouble. Most clubs have people in them that would be familiar with the 75 MHz receiver and how to install it.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's extremely helpful--thank you very much!


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2008)

"Posted By lownote on 01/14/2008 12:41 PM
Thank you, but I think I'm just really slow!

I'm not sure why I need the titan unit. I want to run 2-3 locos on one track with remote control, using track pwer. At present I have a 10 amp 24 volt power supply going into an aristo 10 amp throttle. 

Aristocraft assures me that if I get a TE transmitter and three TE 75 mhz. on board recievers I can do that (assuming I can wire up the receivers).

The titan seem to be a power supply--would I have to have that power supply even if I had RCS onboard decoders/receivers?

Thanks!"

I went back and read all the lit on the Titian...It seems to me that it works in conjunction with your Power Supply.



cale


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Todd.

Perahps a bried explanation about RCS is in order.

The RCS TITAN is not a power supply, rather it is a cordless walkaround R/C controller that varies the voltage going to the track.
The RCS TITAN range of trackside R/C controllers have been in continual production, with improvements added along the way, since 1992.  Three years before the TE, which does the same thing, came on the market.

The RCS on board battery R/C controllers, which are either BASIC or ELITE in configuration, are designed ONLY for battery R/C.  They are not designed for powering by a constant voltage on the track.
It is possible to do that with a bridge rectifier and suitable capacitance, but, the idea runs counter to the RCS philosophy of eliminating track power entirely.  
Well, for onboard Large Scale anyway.

Good luck with using the TE 75 Mhz on board.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

thank you! That clears things up a good bit


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have  Ariso  Track Side.    Two trasnmitters and   three recievers.    They are mounted in Box car as I use  battery now.    But   Did use one of the Track side as it was orginally configured to be used.
I had a  10 amp  power supply and the track side.     It worked  great.    I had not trouble.     

If you  Mosey on down to the  R/C  forum  you  will see a  question I posted.   I was inspired  to ask the question  because of this thread.   It is the general idea that you can use a  Air Wire  System as a  Trackside unit  like the Ariso.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

wow lots of info and opinions here. That's great just what I'm looking for. Right now I have 2 LGB engines both from starter sets and I have my eye on an annie that I would like to pick up in the spring. I thought I read somewhere on the aristo site that with the walk around control #55470 that an engineer could set one train to run around and then go to another while the first one continues under memory. That doesn't make much sense after reading all that is posted here. From what I understood I can run track power but need to put in the seperate 75 MHz receiver into the tender to avoid "noise" interference to be able to run 2 trains at once from the same transmitter. I don't want to have to isolate a track section. 
So if I buy a walk around control #55470 and a power supply #55460 ( I will have to check out the one Dan Pierce recomends) I will be in business to run one engine on track power via remote control. Is this true or will I need anything else?


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure, that will work fine, but I think I'd go for the 55465 power supply instead of the 55460, unless you can steal one somebody's throwing away. The elite is nicer but the ultima will certainly run trains. You connect the receiver to the power supply and to the track in place of your transformer and it will run whatever you put on your track. Your remote can operate bunches of these receivers, but you can't connect 2 receivers to the same track. At the botanic, we run 15 tracks, all independant, and any remote can operate any of them. You set a train's speed and direction, and it will continue while you switch the remote to another track, or even turn the remote off. 

When you get sucked into the dark side, the receiver is easy to mount in a car or tender with a battery


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok I think I understand it now. One transmitter can be switched to control several receivers but the receivers can only be attached to one independent track. For instance Torby's botanic and 15 different tracks. This is remote control in its simplest form. One of my engines has an on and off switch so I could leave it on the track and switch it off or have a section that is independent of the main where a train can sit and wait til the other is around and parked say at the station for example. Question with more electronics added to each engine can the walk around control be upgraded to run these together? Once again one engine going around while the other does some switching. To keep it simple and cheap I might have to make blocks and isolate sections of track or add another receiver. Sorry for all the questions but I just need to figure it all out and get the biggest bang for the buck before laying down some hard earned cash. Thanks.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2008)

I would have to agree with Torby that the elite is the way to go for power, if your going to use the track side TE. you can wire your track with a couple of blocks so you can park a engine on siding track while running another. also you could consider buying another receiver and putting it in a box car an run a engine on battery power, while your track powered engine was running on the same track!!  and you can control it by the same transmiter...
Nick.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I like that idea Nick s of running one train on the track power and another via train mounted battery and receiver from the same controller. That is definantly an idea to be stowed for down the line in the near future. I can see it now COLLISIONS!! and heaps of smoldering melted plastic!!!!! sounds like great fun Gomez. For now I think I will be happy with an upgrade to the elite and running one train around while switching off the other. Now if I can just find a place that has the items for a good price and not be sold out and backordered I will be in business.


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a great discussion.  I am also learning a lot.  This is convincing me to convert to TE.

Am I correct therefore in assuming the 55465 elite power supply will handle more than one receiver?  If so how many?   
Thanks
Gary


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure, the elite can power bunches of receivers. There are 2 considerations here:

Wiring: If you do the old "Cab Control" system where you use electrical switches to connect different throttles to different sections of track with a common rail, each receiver MUST be powered by a separate power supply or you short the whole works out as soon as you reverse something. If they are running entirely independant tracks, you won't have this problem. You can get away with using insulated joiners on both rails so you don't have a common rail, but if you make a mistake with your "block" switches and run onto a reversed block, things come to a sudden stop and you can burn up a wire in the loco pretty easily. It's an easy mistake to make, so I'd stay away from this idea.

Load: Each train draws some "Current" depending on the size of the engine, who made the engine, what kind of load it's hauling up a grade and what accessories like smoke or coach lights you're running. Each TE receiver is fused at 10 amps and if you put 10 amps of load on one of them, the fuse will go. Now 10 amps is a PILE of current and you're not likely to hit this unless you drop your pliers on the track.  If you have 1 power supply good for 13 amps running 5 receivers, and try to run a 3 amp train on each, you're asking your power supply for 15 amps and it's going to turn itself off.

Don't overlook the electronics parts market. If you know your way around electronics at all, you can find nice power supplies there. I have 2 6 amp and one 5 amp supply that run trains very nicely.

Sure you can run a battery powered loco on a powered track with a track powered loco. I do it all the time. Think about this: You can have your  Express running on track power while you run your switcher around on batteries. The best of both worlds! Since you can never get 2 trains running the same speed, on a loop one will always catch up to the other. So you can set your track powered train running and use your remote to maintain spacing by adjusting the speed of your battery train. I often do this at the botanic or on the Gateway Garden Railroad club's modular layout. 

Hey, if you're ANYWHERE within a few states of St. Louis, don't miss the winter meet Feb 9 and 10. There will be lots of experienced guys there who would be delighted to show you how they do things, and there are *lots* of good ways to run your trains.


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

That's good information and I appreciate the reply!   I like the idea of running a combination track power and battery, but first have got to get the TE and get the track walk-around part sorted out.  

At the moment my layout (outdoors) is basically 2 large loops joined by a 4 switch/turnout crossover arrangement for switching between the loops.  I use just the one power supply at present and run only one loco at a time but would like to go to 2, one on each loop....and in opposite directions at times.  It sounds like an extra power supply may be the easiest approach.  Thanks for the tip on the Cab Control system it is a good warning for me to avoid getting caught in.... for sure I'll heed your advice and not set it up that way... 

I won't be able to get to St Louis (drat) but I know some people that can give me helpful advice when I start this in spring.  My electric skills are okay but I sadly lack electronic skills...so thanks to yourself and others I've picked up quite a bit reading about all the solutions on this site and others which gives me some good pro and con information.   It's lots of fun learning the different techniques.
Thanks-
Gary


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure, that will work with 2 power supplies and 2 TE's.  I had my shop set up that way. I divided each loop into several "blocks" with insulated rail joiners like Aristo ART11901's.

Then I used 3 position switches so I could select which throttle connected to each block. I usually operated 1 train on the inside and one on the outside, but flipping a few switches, I could cross from one to the other or park on the sidings. I could also set up so one train would run once around the outside, cross over, once around the inside, cross over, once around the outside.

It wasn't really designed for "operations," but to have something going on while I was working to keep my ADD mind occupied. It was fun to bring the long passenger train into the yard and take the little one out, or switch some freight cars from the outside into the yard. Also worked for amusing customers and family. 




















"Block" switches:


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Posted By GaryY on 01/20/2008 12:18 PM
That's good information and I appreciate the reply!   I like the idea of running a combination track power and battery, but first have got to get the TE and get the track walk-around part sorted out.  

Thanks-
Gary

Gary, the TE only has four wires: two for input and two for output.
 
For track power the input wires are connected to a power supply like the Elite. The output wires are connected to the track. The Elite provides the power and the TE will controls speed and direction of the locomotive.
 
Battery power with a TE is just as simple. The input wires are connected to a battery instead of a power supply. The output is connected to an MU plug instead of the track. When a locomotive is plugged into the MU plug, the battery provides the power and the TE will controls speed and direction of the locomotive.
 








 
Aristo-Craft Plug and Play locomotives have MU plugs and a switch to toggle between track power and battery power. The switch in the battery power position isolates the track power pick-ups so that battery power is not fed back into the tracks. That enables any number of battery powered locomotives to run independently on the same tracks as one track powered locomotive.
 
Now that inexpensive 2-pin plugs are available from All Electronics; the same plugs can be added to any USA Trains diesel.
 








 
This USA Trains GP38 -2 was an easy conversion. Isolating the track power pick-ups was just a matter of unplugging them.
 








 
All the USA Trains diesels I have seen so far are wired the same way. The MU plugs are then just plugged into the power distribution board instead of the track power plugs.

Wiring in a track power/battery switch is not really necessary, unless you intend to run long, lighted passenger trains for hours; because once you try battery power you will never use track power again.
 
If you have an interest in radio control, have a look at the *Battery Power Section** *on our club web site. If you intend to run multiple trains on the same layout, you may find it beneficial just start with battery power.


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

Torby and Paul
Thanks very much for the information.  You've made it seem very straightforward. The pictures are actually a great help and gives me a better insight.   
I think I'll go with the track power setup first as pictured and get comfortable with it and then move over to battery power...as Torby says the best of both world's...  I have some insulated rail joiners (Aristo) and will block the crossovers and go from there. 

Everything I've read or seen regarding battery seems to makes sense and I just like the flexibility and mobility it provides.  I've been able to see battery power in operation at a club operation a few times and I really like the way the trains run more independantly using the walk around.
I have never needed to take the shells off any loco as yet but the way you guys talk it's almost second nature to you all, so I'll have to get over my 'nervous nelly' feeling and just do it. . 
I'd like to convert my Aristo RDC first to battery as it seems to have the most space available.  I assume recharging the batteries in the RDC wouldn't be any problem and all I'd need is a recharge plug from the battery pack.

Thanks Paul for your club's info.  I'll read up on it.  Valuable help!

Cheers
-Gary


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Another thing i do is run a slow engine on my mainline with my track power 27 mhz unit. 

Then I run a 'fast' engine equipped with a 75 mhz receiver. 

Now I can run 2 trains on a single track with no problem. 

Fastest running engines I have are the LGB rail truck (i placed the HOTE in the box behind the cab). and an RDC (houses the standard 75 mhz receiver with a black kat antenna under the RDC. 

On another note, the Ultima power supply output under load is not enough voltage for some newer LGB engines with all the electronics using the first 7 volts internally. 

Many of these do not start to move until there is more than 12 volts on the rails. This is why I like the Elite and adjust the output to 24 volts. 

Also, the older LGB track cleaner just barely works with an Ultima and the trackside receiver. With the Elite, no problem. 

Of course the older Bachman engines with 12 volt motors can run fast, just control yourself and go slow, or switch the lite to the 13 volt mode, or better yet get the newest supply due shortly which has 15 amps at 24 volts and an 18 and 13 volt setting!!!.


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