# 27Mhz TE/Switch Acessory Unit and Slow Motion Switch Machines



## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

Purchased this combination in hopes of configuring my Aristo Wide Radius switch(es) with a little remote control action. 

NOT









It appears (unless I'm missing something) that although the 27Mhz TE, links up to the CRE55475 Switch Receiver just fine, the Slow Motion Switch machine(s) ART-11298, are not designed to play with that version of the Switch Receiver.


Yikes, I didn't see that one coming.....more money on the wrong side of the tracks (LOL).


The SMS Machine's limited documentation indicates that there's a remote option CRE54576 forthcoming early 2009. Anybody seen hide or hair of such an animal?


BTW: The Slow Motion Switch machines documentation suggests using a rubber cement for water proofing, if you're leaving it outdoors! Hmmmm aren't they designed to go otudoors?

Anyway, any suggestions on what brand of rubber cement works well and what doesn't?, Or if there are better products that will do the job?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, I can recommend a better product to do the job, the original switch machine that the Aristo is a poor copy of! 

OK, I'm sure you did not want to hear that, but be careful... there's been several reports of the spring taking a permanent set after a train runs through the switch the wrong way. 

Rubber cement for waterproofing, I've seen that recommendation, use silicon... 

You might be able to use the other Accessory controller to move your switch machine, using a dpdt relay and run it off one of the outputs that stays on. 

How many remote switches do you plan to have eventually? 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 18 Jul 2009 09:15 PM 
Yes, I can recommend a better product to do the job, the original switch machine that the Aristo is a poor copy of! 

You mean the Boehler one?

Or is there another slow motion one?

BTW - Piko just started shipping their own switch motor (in Germany)

Similar to LGB but slightly larger. It will accept the LGB auxiliary switch contacts however.


Regards, Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yep, boehler one 

Greg


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 18 Jul 2009 09:15 PM 
Yes, I can recommend a better product to do the job, the original switch machine that the Aristo is a poor copy of!

Hmmm... While that question was in ref to the rubber cement and not the switch machine, I'm certainly appreciative of the info that better switch machines are out there, and since I didn't know about any other switch machines, I consider myself partially learned on the subject. Is there a link with more info, I searched "The Google" lol, and didn't come up with much in the way of bohler (sp?) switch machines.



there's been several reports of the spring taking a permanent set after a train runs through the switch the wrong way.


"a permanent set" = getting stuck in one position? or if not please explain? 

Rubber cement for waterproofing, I've seen that recommendation, use silicon...

Any particular brand recommendation?...that would be typically sold at a DIY store like, Home Depot or Lowes.


You might be able to use the other Accessory controller to move your switch machine, using a dpdt relay and run it off one of the outputs that stays on.

Ummm....that's an ideal! Thanks! Off I go searching for dpdt relays? Any recommendations?



How many remote switches do you plan to have eventually? 

I have 4 switch machines now, and I don't see adding more 2 more max! 


BTW: Thanks for the info

Stefan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The problem you will have right off is that the Aristo accessory decoders only really work on track 1 and freq 1. So, even if you got all 5 outputs to work, that would be your limit. 

If you were only using 1 switch machine, I would tell you to get the other accessory unit, use the latching output, hook it to a small $2 DPDT relay, and then feed the relay with 12v, and have the relay send the reversing DC that the motors need. Simple. I would select other switch motors that take pulsed output, or find latching relays. 

Still, you will be limited to 5 switch machines. 

Sorry, Aristo has known about this for almost 10 years and never fixed the hardware. Too bad, because with 10 tracks and 10 frequencies, you could control up to 500 devices if only the hardware worked on the other frequencies and tracks. No chance of that happening now... with the huge success of the new system, I'm sure the 27 MHz stuff is destined obsolescence. 

Regards, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

You can use the decoder to pulse a 555 chip that will hold a relay closed as long as you need for the slow motion motor to complete its throw.

I do this with two of the regular LGB turn-out motors and a latching relay on my "leap frog" to pulse them for ~1.5 seconds rather than just relying on the time that the magnet is directly over the reed switch to pulse them.

Once the 555 chip "glitches" are worked out (if encountered), this is far more reliable than just using the reed switch and relying on it to pulse the motors which may not be long enough to complete the throw if the trains are moving too fast.

The 555 circuits will cost ~$5-10 to make.


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

Greg, acknowledged, on the 5 switch machine limit!

"other accessory unit" ??? meaning the CRE55474 Remote Accessory Unit ??? I already have the CRE55475 Switch Accessory Unit.

$2 dpdt relays???, where are you purchasing relays that inexpensive. Cheapest one I found that I can get my hands on, is at Radio Shack, for $8.49 ea., and I didn't do much better when searching the web.


http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2049722&tab=accessories

I do agree with the advent of the TE Revolution system, the chances of me seeing the remote solution for the slow motion switch machines, planned to be relaeased in early 2009, is probably nil, hence the effort to find an alternate solution.

Just curious Greg, alhtough I think I remember reading it on your site, but what method are you using to remote switch your switches? And what switch machines are you using?


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

Todd, thanks for the info on the 555 chip. I'm completely clueless about it's use though, so more research is in order. Seems pretty common though based on a cursory search on "555 chip"


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By sldozier on 19 Jul 2009 12:33 PM 
$2 dpdt relays???, where are you purchasing relays that inexpensive. Cheapest one I found that I can get my hands on, is at Radio Shack, for $8.49 ea., and I didn't do much better when searching the web.




Radio Shack is probably the most expensive place to buy something like that.

Try All Electronics - they have all sorts of DPDT relays different coil voltages for $1.- to $2.- each.

http://www.allelectronics.com//index.php?page=category&id=500

And I think a 555 circuit is overkill for what you need. 

The slow motion switch machine should really shut itself off when it has completed it's travel, but if you need to provide that externally, you can always add a simple two component RC circuit to the relay to make it slow release.


Knut


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

I was on my way go to my neighborhood Radio Shack, and figured I'd check here one more time before heading out. 

Thanks "krs", you saved me a trip.

If this one will work, I'm ordering up a few!


http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/RLY-497/12VDC-DPDT-RELAY/1.html


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

What are you driving the relay with? 
You picked a relay with a relatively low coil resistance. That will draw more current from the driver. 
That relay needs the extra power because it's moving 5 amp contacts which is overkill to drive a switch machine. 

Maybe you posted this earlier - I'm getting in the middle of the thread her. 
But before you order anything, you need to know what is driving the relay coil and what you want to switch with the contacts. 
Relay timing which is the other critical parameter, is irrelevant for your application, but you need to know the currents and voltages involved at the input and output of the relay. 

And yes - if you pick the right relay, there are many model train applications where you can use them. 

Knut


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

Right now I'm using a MRC Model 9000 power supply with throttle set to produce 12VDC out. It's my intention to use a 12VDC wall transformer that I can plug into AC power and wire up to power at least 4 relays if I can get something engineered that will work. All I'm trying to do is get the 4 Slow Motion Switch machines I purchased, installed and working with the Aristo 27Mhz TE, for a little remote switching action, as I run DC track powered trains.

You're posting right on time, not to worry, and I do appreciate the help!


In addition to the 5 amp the only other 12VDC DPDT relay I saw was this 2A version:


http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/RLY-622/12-VDC-DPDT-DIP-RELAY/-/1.html


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes, but what are you using to control the relay? 

It sounded from earlier posts that it was some sort of Aristocraft receiver so you need to know the voltage and current the output can handle. 
That in turn determines the coil resistance and voltage of the relay. 

On the output of the relay you will be driving this switch machine - again you need to know the current and voltage that device requires. 
Nice thing about relays is that the input and output are totally isolated. 

But if both the switch machine and the receiver are from Aristocraft, why do you need a relay at all? 
I would expect these product to work together since they are from the same manufacturer.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 19 Jul 2009 12:57 PM 

And I think a 555 circuit is overkill for what you need. 

The slow motion switch machine should really shut itself off when it has completed it's travel, but if you need to provide that externally, you can always add a simple two component RC circuit to the relay to make it slow release.


Knut 



Been there, tried that. Takes an awful big "C" to hold even a small relay open for more than a second.


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

Posted By krs on 19 Jul 2009 03:43 PM 
Yes, but what are you using to control the relay?

But if both the switch machine and the receiver are from Aristocraft, why do you need a relay at all? 
I would expect these product to work together since they are from the same manufacturer. 

Sorry..... I'm using Aristo Craft 27Mhz Train Engineer R/C system with Aristo's Switch Accessory Unit (CRE55475). They don't work together, that why I'm trying to find an alternate solution. The Switch Accessory unit is apparently only designed to work with the switch machines that come premounted on Aristo's 4ft diameter remote switches, and not the Slow Motion Switch machine, which I bought to remotely operate Aristo's 10 ft diameter Wide Radius switches. It was suggested here earlier that I could get the combo working by using 12VDC relays. The Slow Motion Switch machines are come with a DPDT switch, which when wired to 12VDC and connected to the Slow Motion Switch machine works as advertsied. I'm trying to R/C that operation using the 27Mhz TE remote, rather that seperately building a box to hold the DPDT switches, and having to operate them manually.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The 555 circuit is not tough, there's lots of examples on the web, but it's a bit of fooling around if you haven't done circuits before. 

The problem with the relay, only the other accessory controller has an output that will keep the relay set... 

See my site for the current handling, and description of the units. George Schreyer also has lots of information on the 27 MHz controllers. 

http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai.../aristo-rc

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 19 Jul 2009 03:52 PM 

Been there, tried that. Takes an awful big "C" to hold even a small relay open for more than a second.




True - but why more than a second?
I was thinking of your application and the LGB switch motors are perfectly happy if you power then a couple of hundred milliseconds.

The old ones actually have a tendency to burn out if you apply 24 VDC for too long a period - LGB recommends you power then for less than a second at 24 VDC.


Those switch motors are really designed for half-wave rectified AC.

Back to Aristocraft - so I assume you need to power their slow motion switch machine with your control signal for the whole time it's actually throwing the switch?
What kind of crap is that? Normally one provides a pulse to activate the turnout and the circuitry in the turnout motor looks after the rest.

I better read up on this Aristo product.

Knut


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 19 Jul 2009 05:32 PM 
Posted By toddalin on 19 Jul 2009 03:52 PM 

Been there, tried that. Takes an awful big "C" to hold even a small relay open for more than a second.




True - but why more than a second?
I was thinking of your application and the LGB switch motors are perfectly happy if you power then a couple of hundred milliseconds.

The old ones actually have a tendency to burn out if you apply 24 VDC for too long a period - LGB recommends you power then for less than a second at 24 VDC.


Those switch motors are really designed for half-wave rectified AC.

Back to Aristocraft - so I assume you need to power their slow motion switch machine with your control signal for the whole time it's actually throwing the switch?
What kind of crap is that? Normally one provides a pulse to activate the turnout and the circuitry in the turnout motor looks after the rest.

I better read up on this Aristo product.

Knut



I was addressing his problem with the slow-mo turnout motors and he certainly needs more than a second. Your simple RC may not accomodate his requirements necessitating the use of the 555 chip circuit that I noted.

In my case, I don't power them with 24 volts dc. I hit them (two turn-outs and the latching relay) with half wave, ~22 volts that quickly bleeds down to ~11 volts.

Sure I could have selected a shorter time, but the time over the reed switch is too short to be reliable (in my mind) requiring the 555 chip/circuit, so 250 ms or 1.5 sec makes no difference really and either way, it's the same circuit with a different value resistor. 1.5 seconds is way to short to damage an LGB turnout motor at those voltages. It works fine so there is no need messing with it.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg - 

OK, the Aristo accessory decoder outputs are clear - designed specifically for the two-wire "LGB-type" turnout motors where one reverses polarity rather than the more traditional H0 3-wire turn outs. 
I remember there was a discussion how to hook the Boehler turnout motors to that type of control - I would have to go back to refresh my memory but I don't think one needed any external circuitry. 
Is the Aristo slow motion machine not the same in that respect as the Boehler one? Any schematics and technical info on that? 
The way George commenst on this very briefly is that you not only need to keep power applied while the turnout is moving, but you also need two relays per turnout. 

This is becoming a bit messy especially for people who are not comfortable with electronics. 

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Found the Boehler slow motion drive schematic.










The Boehler drive actually comes in two versions, one has an integrated relay and that's the one you need if you power it via the normal two-wire "LGB-type" control that the Aristo accessory receiver gives you.

So I guess we're back to the relay, maybe two to at least control the Aristo drive.

What about the timing? Drives like that usually ave an internal contact that will continue to power the drive until it completes its throw.


Is that missing on the Aristo drive as well?

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Knut, you missed when I said use the other accessory controller, it has one latching output... and I said only one... but not a good solution since only one... but it would work. If you followed my link you could see it was the number already referenced... 55474, output C.., you can put a relay right on the output, and a snubbing diode... I've done this already... but again, only one output is this easy. 

Better to put one-shot 555 (actually use the dual 556) on the 55475, which only has pulse output, but 5 of them, and then make 5 timer circuits that stay on long enough to travel as you said. 

Aristo machine works same, drive it with DC voltage, it throws, hits the limit and basically disconnects the circuit... nothing will happen until you reverse the polarity of the input to it, then it repeats the cycle in the opposite direction. 

Yes, Aristo came out with a switch they cannot control with their existing electronics. Surprised? 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg, 

I should really read the whole thread carefully before shooting my mouth off. 

I looked at the first post and I thought the OP already had a ART 55475 so I didn't check any further. 

What I'm missing is the information on the Aristo slow motion turn out motor. I looked on the Aristo site but didn't see anything - they show their regular turnout motor and manual control - the manual contol I suppose will work on the slow motion one as well, one just needs to keep the button down until the turnout has thrown completely. 
Reminds me of my old H0 layout when I was 20, quite a few years back. 

So, back to the OP - what parts have you actually bought? 
Is using the Boehler motor with the integrated relay an option? 

If not, I think you either need two relays per turnout plus the times - and yes, for a time longer than several hundred milliseconds a 555 ot dual 555 is the way to go, or..... 
if the Aristo motor does have a limit switch integrated, then a single latching relay should do as well with no timer required. 

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If he has to use the Aristo slow motion motors (and it's worth doing some research on people who have had them for a while), then the simplest setup would be to use some latching relays that can be set and reset with the existing outputs on the 55475... I think it can be done... but, the latching relays might be more expensive. 

That's one idea. 

Regards, Greg


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

I looked at the first post and I thought the OP already had a ART 55475 so I didn't check any further. 

So, back to the OP - what parts have you actually bought? 
Is using the Boehler motor with the integrated relay an option? 

I've bought the following items: CRE 55475 Switch Accessory Unit, and 4 ART 11298 slo-mo switch machines. 

Yes, the Boehler motor is an option. Where can I find more info on the Boehler. 

BTW: Wow, I never envisioned the thread getting this detailed. I've picked up a lot of solid information here today, and I can't thank you guys enough!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's a cost vs quality thing... the Aristo switch motor is a blatant clone/knockoff of the Boehler motor. You will have to decide for yourself if the higher cost for the higher quality is worth it. 

There is a thread with pictures comparing the two somewhere, search for "boehler" will probably work. Train-Li USA is the sole importer of the Boehler. 

Since you already have them, we should try to find you a solution with what you have. 

I think someone had a line on latching relays... I'll look around... 

Regards, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

You can use these guys. At 2 amps and $1.50 a pop, they'll handle your needs.

http://brigarelectronics.com/mm5/me...ory_Code=R










ALLIED CONTROL T351X41 MAGNETIC LATCHING RELAY DPDT 24VDC - DUEL COIL OPERATING COIL: 600 OHMS - 24VDC RELEASE COIL: 1600 OHM - 24VDC CONTACTS: GOLD PLATE, 2 AMP - 28VDC FOR USE WITH SOCKET OR PC BOARD MOUNTING 3/4"x15/16"x1-3/16"


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

According to George's site, the accessory receiver can't handle 24 volts. 
We need a 12 volt relay. 

And before we go hunting for a latching relay, someone should draw out a schematic to see what kind of latching relay we need. 
I was thinking more of a single control latching relay rather than one with a reset coil like this one.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Jul 2009 07:42 AM 

Since you already have them, we should try to find you a solution with what you have. 

Agreed..........

Greg, do you have any information on these Aristo turnout motors? 


I assume they use only two control leads and one reverses polarity to throw them in either direction.

The only issue is that they require a solid control input for say a second or two.

There must be an easier way to do that than adding a bunch of relays.

Any idea how much current these Aristo tunouts draw?

Knut


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 20 Jul 2009 10:46 AM 
According to George's site, the accessory receiver can't handle 24 volts. 
We need a 12 volt relay. 

And before we go hunting for a latching relay, someone should draw out a schematic to see what kind of latching relay we need. 
I was thinking more of a single control latching relay rather than one with a reset coil like this one. 



*AROMAT 5 VDC LATCHING RELAY*







Quantity in Basket: _None_ 
Code: *ST2E-L2DC5V*
Price: *$2.00*
Shipping Weight: *0.12* pounds
method="post" action="http://brigarelectronics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?"> Quantity: STE series ic drivable pc board relays for switching power supply - 2 coil latching type relay - 5vdc, 110 ohm, 240 power mw OK, how about 5 volts?

*AROMAT 5 VDC LATCHING RELAY*







Quantity in Basket: _None_ 
Code: *ST2E-L2DC5V*
Price: *$2.00*
Shipping Weight: *0.12* pounds
method="post" action="http://brigarelectronics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?"> Quantity: STE series ic drivable pc board relays for switching power supply - 2 coil latching type relay - 5vdc, 110 ohm, 240 power m http://brigarelectronics.com/mm5/me...ory_Code=R
*ELECTROL RR MAGNETIC LATCH RELAY*







Quantity in Basket: _None_ 
Code: *R4860-1*
Price: *$1.00*
Shipping Weight: *0.15* pounds
method="post" action="http://brigarelectronics.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?">  Quantity: ELEC-TROL R4860-1 3 - 18 VDC SPDT TYPE RR MAGNETIC LATCH RELAY 330 OHM COIL PC MOUNT MOLDED PLASTIC PACKAGE 1-1/2"x1/2"x1/2" 

Or even 3-18 volts?


http://brigarelectronics.com/mm5/me...ory_Code=R

The 24-volt latching relay I showed previously works exactly like an LGB turnout motor with the dpdt accessory switch attached except:

It has two +'s and two -'s. You need to use 4 diodes to differentiate the pulse so that it is properly routed to the +'s and -'s. 


BTW, George ran the accessory drive at 22 volts without problem. Though noted at 24 volts, these latching relays will trip at ~18 volts.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

What's the problem with the mls forum software? 
It just lost my rather lengthy post. 

In a nutshell it was that the manufacturer specifies 16VDC as the maximum and George found even going above 12 VDC in a specific mode causes problems, so from my point of view one shouldn't exceed 12 volts with the accessory decoder. 

George's post (bold is mine): 

The instructions indicate that the 5475 can run from 5 to 18 volts DC. *The unit itself indicates that it can run from 5 to 16 VDC* or VAC. I tested it only with DC. 

I found that the unit worked from 4 to 18 volts in the independent mode with no apparent loss of motor power even at the very low input voltages. One of the Aristo motors was typically balky and I found that if I held the control button down, it would kick over in pulses a little at a time until the motor finally made it all the way. 

In sequential mode, the story is a little different. *At voltage above 12 or 13 volts, the unit became unreliable, see the comments on unusual behavior below. Sometimes it would work and sometimes it wouldn't. Between 4 and 12 volts it seemed to work fine.* 

I did test a production 5475 on DCC track power (at 22 volts) and it ran fine in independent mode even though this is above its rated operating voltage. The sequential mode didn't work well at the high input voltage. 

The unit draws between 10 and 15 mA while idling, but it draws about an amp for half a second or so while the internal storage capacitors recharge.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

The 24-volt latching relay I showed previously works exactly like an LGB turnout motor with the dpdt accessory switch attached except: 

It has two +'s and two -'s. You need to use 4 diodes to differentiate the pulse so that it is properly routed to the +'s and -'s. 

Can you sketch out the schematic and post it? 

And the last 3-18 volt relay you recommend only has a SPDT contact - I thought you need a DPDT contact to reverse the polarity to the turnout.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Knut, I keep relying to you and this site keeps deleting it! (This is my 7th attempt.) 

Two wires come off the turn-out toggle switch. Place two diodes in opposite directions on each of these two wires. For one wire, align the positive end of its diode with the + of one of the relay coils. Align the negative end of the other diode on this leg with the - of the other relay coil. Vise versa for the other leg off the toggle switch.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

As to the 3-18 volt relay being SPDT, you can always use two with the coils in parallel to attain a DPDT. 

BTW, this software is truly bonkers and the ONLY WAY I CAN REPLY IN THIS THREAD IS THOUGH THE USE OF THE Quick Reply. I can't use the quote or even edit my own posting. It goes through its "Submit" as normal, but then goes to "Submit" again and bombs.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm glad Todd popped into this one, he's the master of "relay logic" among other things.... 

Ahh... Todd, you are not a 1st class member, so the quick reply sometimes kills posts if 2 people are trying to use it the first time... make a short reply, just a few words, then edit it... I thought Shad mentioned this before. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I keep losing this post - luckily I saved it on my Mav so posting it over and over again is no problem - 

Isn't that a pain!! 
Same thing happened to me earlier. It looked like the post went but then the subject line turned red and everything was gone. 

Even with all the changes, this forum software is still by far the worst I have even encountered. Posting here always becomes an exercise in frustration. 
When I tried to bold part of the text earlier, I found out that if you use a regular reply field the selected text actually does become bold as expected but if one uses the quick reply field, clicking on "B" for bold only generates the tags (or whatever you call it, the command in square brackets tha the software recognizes) and to top it off, the tags are placed at the end of the text not at the beginning and end of the text section one wanted 'bolded'. 

This software is just full of quirks like that - developed by a real amateur, I'm sure. 

Now - on to bigger and better things. 
You're wiring - we're actually not coming from a toggle switch but from the accessory decoder, but regardless, looks simple enough and should work just fine. Only thing I'm not sure of is what happens on a power up situation. That depends to some degree also what the Aristo receiver does when power is first applied. 
But you do need a DPDT relay to reverse the polarity to the turnout and the turnout should have the limit switches to cut the power or be designed to be powered on continuously. 
Sounds like a simple, robust and cost-effective solution. 

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

ooops - spoke too soon. 

I lost the quote I was replying to in the first section.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Third attempt! 

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Jul 2009 01:24 PM 

Ahh... Todd, you are not a 1st class member, so the quick reply sometimes kills posts if 2 people are trying to use it the first time... make a short reply, just a few words, then edit it... I thought Shad mentioned this before. 

Regards, Greg 


Greg - I hope you're joking but it doesn't sound like it. 

Why the heck doesn't someone fix the software? These problems have been around since forever it seems and I post here very seldom because of the problems. 

Imagine if every site required these work-arounds....it's like...where is my little black book so I can check all the work-arounds required for the next site I'm planning to look at. 

And Todd - now that I think we're clear on how this could work, I'm sure we can find the appropriate relay somewhere at a reasonable price. 
8 or 12 volt latching with a set/reset coil and 1 or 2 amp DPDT contacts should be readily available. 
The trick is finding one for less than $2.- 

Knut 

PS: I'm a 1st class member and I'm having the same problems.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

What about a single coil latching relay like this: 

http://www.memotronics.com/product?pid=80 

You wouldn't need any diodes and you sure can't beat the price. 

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not joking, I feel your pain... the reference to 1st class member was a red herring, it is that you cannot use the wysiwyg editor, which I was about to recommend, but remembered that is only for 1st class members, so you're stuck with the other editor. 

That being said, the quick reply is the problem... for everyone, stay in it too long, and someone else uses it and saves before you, you are toast... 

I thought this was fixed in the new software. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Fifth try 

Fourth try 

Third try - 

I think it has something to do with googleleads g doubleclick. 

Greg - there is more to that. 

I just used the regular reply window with this message and it was wiped out too, 
This is not just a problem related to Quick Reply. 


Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Jul 2009 02:13 PM 

That being said, the quick reply is the problem... for everyone, stay in it too long, and someone else uses it and saves before you, you are toast... 


But if I save before the other person does, he is toast? 
Sounds like fun - almost like a game, except I wouldn't know if I wiped someone else out. 

This is hilarious............


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 20 Jul 2009 01:44 PM 
But you do need a DPDT relay to reverse the polarity to the turnout and the turnout should have the limit switches to cut the power or be designed to be powered on continuously. 
Sounds like a simple, robust and cost-effective solution. 

Knut 


Actually you could use a SPDT relay if you run a common ground. The SP of the relay selects the + or - relative to the ground that does not change so does not need to be switched. Just like I do with SPST switches on my control panel to run my 21 LGB turnout motors. 

Had to do this in Quick Reply and could not quote you. Software is screwy.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Should have said SPDT (not SPST) switches on my control panel to run my 21 LGB turnout motors. 

But the software would not allow me to edit my post and again, I have to do this in Quick Reply to get it to post. Software is screwy.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Todd - 

You can use an SPDT relay with your arrangement because you use a toggle switch as the control element and you have a ground reference from your power supply. 
The Aristo receiver doesn't have a ground reference shown and I don't know if you can tie one of the output leads to ground to make a ground reference because I have no clue what the drive circuitry inside the receiver looks like. 

Knut


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

KRS.. 

When Aristo states 16 volts AC, then it goes to a diode bridge with a capacitor filter, the DC level is approx. 22 volts.(16 times 1.414 minus the diode drop). 

There own Ultima supply outputs 22 volts at no load and I have used this unit for 7 years on my 55475's with no problems. 

All of my 55474 and 55475 (5474 and 5475) have the diode bridges and can run on AC or DC and are not polarity sensitive due to the input diode bridge.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Dan, 

There are many ways to design power supplies and convert AC to DC, using a diode bridge is just one of them. 
And there are also many factors that determine the maximum voltage and current ratings of a product. 
Has Aristocraft actually told you in writing that you can run these receivers at a higher voltage than specified? 
George's tests on his website show that the Aristocraft receiver will not even perform one of the specified functions unless the input supply voltage is dropped to 12 or 13 volts where as other functions woek fine at 16 volts and possibly higher. 
That alone should tell you that things aren't always that simple. 

I always take the manufacturer's specification at face value unless there is an obvious typo. 
When we design circuits in our company, we make sure the design meets the specification, but we also don't design much over any of the spec parameters because that costs real money. 
I'm sure Aristocraft does the same. 
With the final product coming off the production line, some or even many may exceed the spec simply because the components used exceed their own spec, but that's no guaranty that this happens on an ongoing basis. 
When a component manufacturer sells you a product that is rated at a maximum voltag of say 24 VDC, then they should all handle 24 VDC, some may handle only 25 volts, others 35 or even 45 volts, but there is no guaranty. 
If these Aristo units can really handle either 16 VAC or 22 VDC, then I wonder why the manufacturer didn't specify that...........oh, I forgot, they don't even handle 16 VDC in certain cases. 

Anyway - it's your product - you do as you wish. 
Just don't expect the manufacturer to honour the warranty if you operate the device beyond it's stated limits. And I can assuer you, the manufacturer can tell what caused the failure - they just often honour the warranty anyway to keep customers happy. 

Knut 

PS: In the situation we're discussing in this thread, there is absolutely no reason to operate the Aristo receiver at the higher voltage, so why take a chance?


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

What about a single coil latching relay like this: 

http://www.memotronics.com/product?pid=80 

You wouldn't need any diodes and you sure can't beat the price. 

Knut 


Sorry guys for disappearing for a moment there, but life and work seems to always get in the way of the fun of "running trains"! 
Anyway based on thread to date, the latest suggestion from 'krs" above seems to be the consensus "latching relay" that should work with the slo-mo switch machines and the Aristo 27Mhz TE. 

Not that I'm questioning your suggestion "krs", it's painfully obvious that you're way more knowledgeable about this subject than I am, but that relay is only 5 volts, and most of previous suggestions referenced 12 volt relays. Is a 5 volt relay going to be enough to get the job done?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Relay voltage refers to the nominal coil voltage. 
As long as that's within the voltage range provided by the drive circuit, your OK. 
The only other thing to watch out for is the coil resistance and thus the amount of current the relay will draw from the control unit - ie the receiver. 
This particular 5 volt relay has a coil resistance of 250 ohms nominal, so it will draw roughly 20 ma at 5 volts which the Aristo receiver should be able to handle - I haven't checked. 

But that same type of relay also comes in a 12 volt version with a 1440 ohm coil, that relay will only draw just over 8 ma. 
Contact rating is 2 amps carrying and 1 amp switching - again, I don't have the Aristo switch machine specs but that seems adequate to me. 

I was focusing more on using a single coil latching relay which would not require any diodes than this particular relay I linked to. I was just amazed at the low price - probably because it's manufactured in huge quantities. 
There is a detailed spec sheet available on that link I posted which makes it easy to design this part into any circuitry. 

Do you have any of the larger electronic distributors near you? 
I would get one single coil latching relay to try out this approach to make sure we're not overlooking anything before I buy a whole lot. 
Relay design is very straight forward especially when one has a detailed spec - the thing that worries me a bit is that there is no spec on the Aristo stuff you're interfacing with. 

Knut


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