# How is Wholesaletrains.com these days?



## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey guys.. It's been a while since I'v added a lot to the forums around here, and a while since I've needed to add anything to my railroad. But now I'm looking to add a vintage steam passenger train to the line and have been doing a bit of shopping online. 

I'm not too sure I like the new setup with StAubins.... and I'm hearing "things" from buddies in my train club regarding them as well. I've purchased a lot of stuff from StAubin in the past with good results, but today.... I'm just not sure. 

I was on Wholesaletrains.com this morning. They have what I want at a good price. I was just wondering if there have been any service or delivery issues? I know they generally have a good reputation, but I know I cna trust the feedback I get here...

So, what say you? 

Thanks guys.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

My personal experience with Wholesale trains is slow service. Partial orders shipped, a few back orders. I don't use them anymore. Neither do I use St. Aubins, I used to order from them a lot. They can suck eggs and thank you St Aubin's for charging me for an engine with sound I never received! Their customer service used to be terrible and I wouldn't know now because I haven't used them in a long time. ST Aubin's, I know you read this, I will NEVER recommend you to ANYBODY. Worst on the whole list of G dealers.

Nate


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used Wholesaletrains for almost all of my online purchases without a hitch, makes good sense to make sure your order is listed as "in stock" (IOWs in their warehouse, or "avaiable" (in the mfrs warehouse) if an item is "back ordered" or listed as "future production", forget it until its listed as "in stock" if in doubt - call, had good service by phone order as well.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Recently I have been buying sound cards and our club got the best price on Stainless Steel track from Ridge Road Station. They have been very fast in their shipping. I would recommend calling them and making the order over the phone, rather than doing it on the internet. 
Paul


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

My number one source for trains is ridge road station. Their prices are great as well as service. Im a big fan of hartland trains and Ridge road does not sell them so I go wholesales. They are hit or miss. The best thing is call them to see if it is in stock. If you go by the internet they will not send anything saying it is on backorder. Just call, you are better off. Other then that they are good. I have not delt with St aubins much but they seem good. Again I call to see whats in stock. Ridge road inventory is usually very good and if it is not they call within a day to let you know. Service is great. 

One thing I am noticing as of now is everyones inventory seems to be terrible. Nothing in stock. At least in HLW and Bachmann products I have been looking at.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Ridge Road Station has been very good in service and price.

RLD Hobbies is also worth checking out, good prices and excellent service.

Keeping with the flavor of some of the previous posts: St Aubins has not gotten a nickle of
my money for the past 3 years nor will they ever in the future.

For what it's worth.
Rick Marty


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, the last thing or two I got from Ste Aubins they really only got a nickel or so of my money, as they were drop shipped, even after I asked if THEY had it in stock?


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

I second that RLD Hobbies and Ridge Road Station are good service and pricing. A third would be G Scale Junction. At least those three in the group of "discounters" anyway.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

I second that RLD Hobbies and Ridge Road Station are good service and pricing. A third would be G Scale Junction. At least those three in the group of "discounters" anyway.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have bought (and continue to buy) from Wholesale Trains and St. Aubin and Ridge Road and RLD and Nickolas Smith and from Train World and many others.

Some do better with some brands while others do better with other brands but overall I have been satisfied with all of them (the less I pay the less I expect).

I try to buy when I can from Wholesale because they were the first to support MLS and years ago gave me a Thomas the Tank set for my autistic granddaughter when there were none for sale anywhere (Gary GAVE me the set off his display and refused to accept a dime for it - even paying for shipping. I had never even met Gary).

i consider all the dealers to be good guys but some do some things that make me happy and other things that annoy me. In the end after several years I often have forgotten where I bought something anyway.

Friday I will be picking up several cartons of brass track from St. Aubin at the the Heart of America Show in Kansas City. My last brass track came from Ridge Road. Sometimes price determines where I buy something but other times the shipping savings of getting something heavy at a show makes the difference. I also try to support those dealers who support the shows I go to.

I try not to burn any of my dealer bridges because I never know which dealer will have what I need tomorrow or next year. The same wth manufacturers. I buy some things from most of them. We need all of them and the one we dislike the most is often someone elses favorite.

Jerry


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

I notice that no one mentioned Watts.


I haven't bought anything for a while as I just don't have the space, but I used Watts quite a bit in the days I was in the buying mode. Their price wasn't always the lowest, but the quality of customer service was always outstanding.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Probably because he asked about wholesale trains..... 

I won't ever do business with them... I ordered a large quantity of Split Jaw SS rail clamps. Box arrived on doorstep, mashed up... Wholesale trains tells me I have to file a claim, I don't believe them, they insist (phone conversation)... I file claim.... almost 1 month later FedEx tells me I am an idiot because the shipper has to file the claim, and by the way, the month to make a claim is up and screw you... 

Call Wholesale trains... screw you too Greg... 

I still have the box to remind me to tell everyone I know on a periodic basis and to never buy from them again. 

Of course they KNEW that the shipper makes the claim and they LIED to me. No one could be in business for any length of time and not know how a shipping claim is made. 

Regards, Greg


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Sorry, Greg. I saw St. Aubin, RIdge Road, Nikolas Smith, Trainworld, G Scale Junction and RLD mentioned. Thus I didn't think it out of line to ask about Watts. 

Regards, Stan


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## Gary Lantz (Feb 20, 2008)

Greg - I have checked our records on this and can only find one sale to you and that was back in september 2006 for 2 LGB wheelsets and a USA 40' boxcar. I keep pretty good records on that stuff. If there was a problem I would like to investigate it. It was shipped the same day it was ordered via UPS. 

Gary Lantz 
Wholesaletrains


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gary, I may have messed up... let me walk over to the cupboard where the box is.. ok, I am back, the box is in my lap.. (still have the box as I said) 

Invoice number PB29520 
sales order WR5188 
dated 10:29:50 AM 04/01/2005 
Cust ID C27821 
Salesperson TT/CW 
Cust PO 200426212 

I can see this on the invoice on the box, which is unopened (further) by me, because all the rest of the clamps fell out of end the box when I picked it up. 

Sorry Gary, but there really was no excuse for the person telling me this on the phone. Stupid me, I did not think it was right at the time, but I figured when I filed the claim with FedEx, they would have told me that since I was not the shipper I was stuck. 

My take is that FedEx wanted out of responsibility, and I will admit that I never called them back or went online to find the real rules. 

Funny, I came across the box about a month ago in my office.... and wondered why I had kept it, but then I figured (again) it would remind me of the lesson I learned. 

I hope the people who work for you now would not tell any customer the same lie. 

I'm sorry to use such a strong word, but now that I am less stupid, and working for a company that ships and receives large amounts of products, I see that ANY employee in customer service would know who had to file the damage claim. 

Bottom line is that it happened... tell me if you want further proof, but I suspect that giving you the information above will be enough. I have not pulled the invoice from the plastic envelope, I am leaving the box exactly as I received it. I believe the order was for 100 or so SJ SS clamps for Aristo track. 

I seem to remember that 2 bags were not in the box when I got it. 

Regards, Greg


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## Gary Lantz (Feb 20, 2008)

YA those look like our old point of sale numbers but 2005 has been archived so i wont find it. (and fortunately so has whoever TT/CW was). some employees will go to some wild extremes sometimes to avoid paperwork or any work for that matter ... I could write a book. But at any rate I will get you out two bags in the morning. As an aside In 2005 i was still working full time and I couldnt afford to be here all the time like i am now to watch over things so you can imagine the freedoms some people afforded themselves whenever possible. We have a pretty good crew these days without a lot of employee turnover but we have had our share of doozies.


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## Gary Lantz (Feb 20, 2008)

besides i dont want you to have to do a music video on you tube like this guy had to do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo - i see my former employees when i watch this.


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Gary.... 

Rather than jump into the forum with flames flying on a similar issue, I'd like the chance to run a problem by you off board .... but I'm not sure how to get hold of you, yourself. 
Send me a message I can respond to privately, and maybe we can make some kind of happy ending out of a customer service issue of some seven years.... 

Matthew (OV)


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Nobody would consider me a big customer, but wholesaletrains is one of my favorite places to buy trains and parts. He stocks and lists parts, not just whole products.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I, like others, have bought train items from just about all of the suppliers referred to here, but my preferred supplier recently has been Wholesale Trains. I have had very good luck with them, their prices are hard to beat, and they have always been straight with me.

Ed


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I took this photo in September 2002:










A fellow MLSer sent extra cars also at no cost. I regret that I have forgotten his name but if he reads this I wish he would remind me.

I would have happily paid for what I received but they are more valuable to me because they expressed the generosity of fellow MLSers (Gary is a fellow MLSer).

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By stanman on 12 Aug 2009 08:23 PM 

I notice that no one mentioned Watts.


I have a very high regard for Watts and got perhaps my best large scale bargain from San-Val. 

Actually the dealer I would trust the least is one from whom I bought a lot. I pushed for the cheapest prices but sometimes I had to count my fingers after the sale. We were well matched - sometimes I won and sometimes he won but we both knew what we were doing.

The lowest price and the best customer service will seldom be found at the same place (it would be economically unfeasible). I HATE Wal-Mart but I still buy from them.

Jerry


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your feedback and information. I have looked into RLD and Ridge Road. They both seem like excellent suppliers, they currently do not have what I'm looking for. 

What I'm taking away with regards to Wholesaletrains is that if I make contact by phone, confirm that they have what I need available to ship (or dropship) and know that we have a fellow MLS'er in their midst (glad to see Gary is involved here) that I can buy from them with a good amount of confidence. 

Once I get some money in the bank next week, I'll place my order.. 

Thanks again everyone.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Just make sure they have it on hand. Do not trust 'Available' I got burned twice. 
First time I ended up with 2 sloped back tenders (Aristo) because after waiting 6 months, I thought I had cancelled my order and bought one from another source, a month and a half later the second tender arrives. 
2nd; Ordered an Aristo loco from them; After 2 months (or so- foggy memory) I wrote and asked it's whereabouts and received a reply that they didn't know but were looking into it , 2 more months, get a note that the one for me was sent back damaged, but they had a line on another... 2 or more months later they offer a coal burning bumble bee instead of the DRGW wood burner that matched my wants. Oh and about $50 off. I said No Thanks, found an online ad for it and had it within 2 weeks.... after giving them 6 months to fill the order. 

I can't speak for others, but I gave 'em their second chance already. When asked I will give this honest account. 

John


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

I guess that something Wholesale Trains (or any dealer for that matter) could take away from these posts.....update your stock availability notices with more accurate and less broad "wool over the eyes" terminology. Either you have in stock or you don't.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I learned that when Wholesale Trains says "available" on-line, that means they know they can get it. If there is a shipping interval, like one or two days, that means it is in stock.

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I received a Fed Ex overnight package today, with my 20 SS SJ clamps. 

THANKS GARY! 

As far as my past experience this zero's it out, especially since it was in 2004. I'm glad Gary now has the helm firmly in hand, and thank you for listening to your customers. 

I will try Wholesale trains again for a purchase in the near future. 

Gotta give a guy credit when he makes a gesture like this. 

Regards, Greg


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Greg

That's very good to hear. I hope it was a genuine move and not the fact that they are getting flacked by this thread and opportunity presented itself to make a public gesture of goodwill. If it is genuine then fantastic, I think all manufacturer's and retailers especially need to take notice, crappy service as usual ain't gonna cut it anymore. People are spending less and being more selective when spending it. If those retailers want some of the shrinking pie they better be working for it and not ticking everyone off. 

Nate


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 13 Aug 2009 07:31 AM 
The lowest price and the best customer service will seldom be found at the same place (it would be economically unfeasible). I HATE Wal-Mart but I still buy from them. Jerry
Maybe we are more fortunate this side of the Atlantic Jerry.

Both of the dealers, from whom I have purchased 99% of my requirements, not only had the lowest prices but gave exceptional service. They also gave quick, straight answers about stock positions.

Those who frequent a UK Forum will probably know who they are.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Good for you Greg. 

I wonder if you weren't such a name here if he would have done it. 

You get railclamps and I don't even get a freakin apology. 

Somethin' ain't right. 

John 

John


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

You have to know the code:


Next Day - Means they have it right on the self ready to send.
Available - Means they can get it from Aristo. Usually in a couple days.
On Order - Means they'd like to have some if they could get them. 


I had Elite power supplies listed as "Available." Somebody ordered one. It didn't come. It didn't come. I called, "I've got them but they're missing a connector." Everything's subject to a goof up. Once listed UP Heavyweights as available and I was flooded with orders. Turns out, all they had on hand was 2 broken ones that got listed as onhand. 


My 3 rules of life helped a lot:


1. Trust God.
2. Be flexible.
3. Maintain a sense of humor.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Torby, 
You talk in days, my experience was months and the two experiences several years apart. 

I did not go on a board and flame them, but when folks ask, I share my experience. 

I was flexible, but the Calendar wasn't, a promise made in November was coming due in March, by mid Feb., I finally get an offer for a different era and $50 off or cancel the order. I canceled, found another internet ad, ordered it and had it as soon as ground delivery could get it to me. I've ordered from 6 or so different companies and only Wholesale has let me down.... twice. 

Screw the code either they've got it or they don't. I got the standard broken part delay too. Well that's how it felt. I never felt I got a straight answer from them except the first from the second go round. When I asked where my order was they replied; 

'We don't know, but we are looking into it.' 

Now that's customer service eh? A real confidence builder and ever so hard to explain to a 4 year old train buff. 

John


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## Gary Lantz (Feb 20, 2008)

Totalwrecker - I cant guess who you are. Since you have choosen to keep your identity a secret and not use your real name my only option was to send you a message through the forum e-mail system wich i did a couple days ago with the details on how to contact me. I have not heard from you and I dont know what else i can do.


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## Gary Lantz (Feb 20, 2008)

Torby - sometimes....maybe and not always. If your confused yet Let me explain. Our inventory is handled by 3 servers that back one another up on about 15 minute intervals. So the web changes every 45 minutes after a part is hit by a bar code reader. It varies about 1000 SKU's a day during summer and three times that many during the holiday season. We use the same system as companies like Aristocraft and others in our business. It's close but it does not reflect what inventory that may be already committed to someone else or the fact that someone ordered the item in a prior order that may not have been pulled yet. And sometimes "available" is shipped the same day if we have time to pull it from the storage building. It depends on the circumstances. Its not perfect but its the best software thats been offered our industry today. Thats why you may notice Polks have a little blurb at the bottom of thier in stock list page (In-Stock does not indicate what is available for sale. In-Stock indicates what is listed as on hand in our warehouse. This includes but not limited to items that are dealer returns, show stock, reserved items, damaged product, and otherwise unavailable for sale items. Therefore, not all items listed as in-stock are available for sale or distribution.) Someday (if the employees will go along with it) i want to get a webcam system going so customers can see how thier shipments progress from the staging and sorting area and then moving down the package line and being checked by the packer and boxed. Then watch them go to the shipping label station and then on to the credit card processing station. Then sorted into piles for the differnt shippers to load up. Some of you have been here and watched it but its not something that you get to see everyday.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gary, I manage the operations side of our company, we have 30 locations and I've put camera systems in about 20 of them, showing customer service, and more importantly where customers are loaded up and get the product, as well as a fair part of the process of retrieving the product from our warehouses. 

Adding the cameras helped a lot. It not only reminded people not to mess about, but let me see where procedures were wrong and avoid future problems and in a number of cases, life-threatening accidents. 

We only have cameras in large general areas, not trying to watch people at their private desks, and I strictly control who gets to see the cameras. 

We likewise have an inventory system, and there is ALWAYS a discrepancy between the real inventory and the one in the computer. Someone always screws something up, it's just human nature. 

Regards, Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary,

The use of handles instead of names on this forum, has bugged me ever since the first software change about a year or so ago. The great percentage of folks who joined here nine years ago, used NAMES not handles. ****, we don't even have locations shown anymore nest to names on the left!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Unfortunately this topic is an excellent example of why (in my opinion) forums are not a good place to discuss dealers (any dealers).

At times I have been upset (outright mad) at MANY dealers and manufacturers - always for very good reasons (to me).

Given time and the opportunity every dealer and every manufacturer has eventually done something that restored my willingness to buy from them.

Some times it has taken years (as many as five years).

There remains a significant list of things I will not buy from some manufacturers and some brands that I will not buy from some dealers but overall I have come away from this hobby satisfied that most people who sell their goods and services to us are doing the best they can.

I just got back from the HAGRS where I bought something (perhaps little or perhaps large) from at least seven dealers involving at least LGB, Aristo, USA, AMS, AML, plus a few others. The only item I mentioned on MLS happened to be the AML wheels because they replaced Bachmann wheels that I could not find.

The 7+ dealers that I bought from don't get mentioned because they treated me well and things went well. The other dealers who I did not buy from don't get mentioned because although I did not buy anything from them nothing unpleasant happened.

There are enough brands and enough dealers to keep all of us happy.

Forums have a tendency to bring out our strongest emotions whether for or against a particular brand or dealer.

Even when we state our position with perfect accurately it only reflects our personal situation at one particular moment in time. We have no concept what the particular reason was for why we may have not received the service we were entitled to.

It does not matter who we are talking about. No dealer or manufacturer would survive long at all if the vast majority of their customers were not happy.

Forums are like families. It is natural for all of us not to like or dislike everyone and everything that everyone else likes or dislikes.

Some of the people I get along best with now are exactly the same manufacturers and dealers that I had reason to dislike in the past. When we slam a door shut we make it impossible for them to fix the problem and sometimes the problem is not something that can be fixed at the moment it created a problem for us.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Great Western on 15 Aug 2009 07:09 AM 


Maybe we are more fortunate this side of the Atlantic Jerry.

Both of the dealers, from whom I have purchased 99% of my requirements, not only had the lowest prices but gave exceptional service. They also gave quick, straight answers about stock positions.

Those who frequent a UK Forum will probably know who they are.










Hi Alan,

I totally agree. Your situation is different because of where you are and you solution is whatever works best for you. 

I once sold and shipped some trains to 5 countries which left me with a new awareness of the complications of international shipping. 

If I lived in the UK I would not have a clue where to buy from aside from that forum.

On the other hand I have no sympathy for you since you probably have more Garden Railroaders per square mile (kilometer?) than any other place on earth.









Cheers,

Jerry


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## DDB (Aug 28, 2009)

I have had good experience with Wholesaletrains.com when they have product in stock or can order it easily. Their problem is customer service and I have concluded they would rather loose a customer than provide service. I have placed many successful orders but two have given me fits. One time I wanted a second Aristo diesel and wanted the second road number. They told me there was no way to tell and sent me a second one with the same number. The number is clearly on the outside of the box. The second frustration was I ordered an Aristo Dual Rail bender in January for a great price. When Aristo said they were in stock, I called and they told me Aristo was giving them problems. I called evey two weeks and last month was told by "the supervisor" my credit card expired so I would have to re-order at a substantially higher price. I attempted to discuss this with the supervisor and all she would say is you have to re-order and I do not have time to discuss this, we do not have time to call customers when a credit card expires and I am going to hang up. I sent a follow up e-mail which was ignored. I vote with my feet and I have stopped purchasing from Wholesale trains.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I would have escalated your first problem to Gary, clearly he does not want a bad reputation. Sometimes the boss has to hear secondhand how his employees are doing. 

Not to take sides, but your second problem... well, Aristo is often out of stock on items, they only make them in batches, they are out of SS switches until next year... so, I think you need to give Wholesale trains the benefit of the doubt there. If your credit card expires, I know of NO ONE who calls you to re-up their information. The final comment on this problem is that a radical price increase from Aristo is not uncommon, I have been tracking the prices of parts and you should see how the price of a smoke unit has risen almost double in the last few years, and that there are often 20% price increases on parts several times during the year. 

So, escalate.. Gary came on this thread to solve a problem, give him the opportunity in the future to be the "buck stops here" guy. If fails, then, you vote with your feet, if he follows up like he did for me, then great. 

Regards, Greg


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## DDB (Aug 28, 2009)

Greg,

I kept checking in to do "my part" so the CC answer was frustrating and then the cold shoulderfrom the supervisor was the " icing on the cake". I absolutely hate to bad mouth companies when they seem to be basically honest which is exactly what Wholesale trains seems to be. I would like to communicate directly with Gary.

Don


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

He watches this thread, but you can send him a private message by clicking where it says send message, it's Gary Lantz, he posted above....... or you could call him directly. I'm not sure he follows his private messages here on a real regular basis, I know I don't, and I'm not running a business. 

I believe giving everyone the benefit of the doubt a few times... 

Regards, Greg


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Since I started this thead I have swapped a couple of E-mails with Gary. My impression is he's a real stand up guy and really want's to provide excellent service. I found out through Gary that they have what I'm looking for at a great price and I'll be placing my order shortly....though Gary.. 

I'll keep you all posted on how that transaction goes... I've also noted a few items on WT's webiste that show "Next Day" or "Available" availability at some GREAT sale prices.... so my order may be larger than first anticipated... 

Thanks to everyone for their postings on here.. they have been very enlightening.. 

DF


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

The other side of the story:
I have owned and operated a retail store for 32 years, some of the things the retailer has to put up with................. we sell high end baseball and softball equipment........
Customer trying to return something not purchased from you
Customer trying to return something without a receipt
Customer trying to exchange a item not purchased from you (Buys bat in wrong length from competitor on close out, tries to exchange for length they really want from you) Customer turns their younger children loose in your store allowing them to trash it 
When you ask them to supervise their children, they tell you to mind your own business 

Did I say that customers lie too??????????
Customer breaks product one week before warranty is up and tries to return it (light pole puts a different dent on bat then a ball)
Customer picks your brain for hours on product then drives across town to save a nickel at big box store (where he receives no service or info)
Customer always tells you how much they can save somewhere else, (I have called the other stores to prove they are lying)
Customer expects you to open early
Customer expects you to stay late
Customer could care less that you too have a life and family
Did I say that customers lie too?????????
I could go on and on..........................................

Now before you say, man he sure is burned out and needs to get into another business please realize. We have survived well in the fourth largest city for over 32 years for one reason and one reason only. That is because we give our customers the best service and selection in town. We are a one store operation in a jungle of HUGE box stores and discounters. We have not had to advertise because the best advertisement is word of mouth from happy customers, and...........we bend over backwards for our customers. Have we ever angered a customer? YES, but............. 95% of the time it has been after the customer has been totally unreasonable. The other 5% of the time WE should have done better, but retailers are human too. 

P.S. Did I say that Customers lie too???????


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I placed my order today, we'll see how things fly. I'll try to keep everyone updated on the delivery proceedings..


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By Gary Lantz on 15 Aug 2009 12:29 PM 
Totalwrecker - I cant guess who you are. Since you have choosen to keep your identity a secret and not use your real name my only option was to send you a message through the forum e-mail system wich i did a couple days ago with the details on how to contact me. I have not heard from you and I dont know what else i can do. 
I'm sorry Gary I didn't get your message and I really disliked the Sentiments this kind of thread generates... Blood pressure and all...So I stopped reading it.

Maybe it was sent when we got improved.... a lot got misplaced then.

At this time I wasn't really expecting anything from you. 

The compensation offered wasn't anything I could use so I rejected your offer, my other option..

Found another store carrying the item, paid $20 more and had it in 2 weeks. Much to my relief I was able to keep a promise.

I don't think thr group could endur another round of of why I follow my security's advisor's advice on nicknames. Me neither!

I finally found a use for the sloped back tender that came 4 months after I thought I had cancelled the order after waiting 4-5 months...

I'm glad to hear that you are working to improve the store, I'm pretty much done buying trains stuff, but should another 'gotta have it' come along I will check to see if it is stock, but at this time Available means; never mind.

Sincerely,
John Caughey


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

OK.. The nice FedEx man just left and I now have TWO big boxes of stuff. Looks like all arrived in great condition and everyone is present and accounted for. Based on this experience I'll certainly give the fine folks at Wholesale Trains my busines again. 

Gary, thanks for your feedback earlier and your communication with me prior to the sale. 

Now !!! (rubbing hands together excitedly).... The next big project bgegins....... 

Thanks everyone for all you feedback, I truly appreciate it all. 

DF


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Facts: 

You can't sell empty shelves unless you BS. 
They want your money, they want your credit card. 
Once they have your CC but don't have the stock they think they legitimatly have all year to somehow supply it. 
They think substitution of stock is good enough. 
They do not indicate handling / packing charges prior to the deal. 
If they offer USPS they use a middle company to pick it up so the good value is taken by someone else. 
They use those corporate shipping companies that the customer has no way of calculating the real shipping cost which aparently is always at a unspecified discount. 
I would assume those corporate shipping companies have bonus incentive deals which are good only for the seller not the person that pays the unspecified bill. 

I think they are scum and do nothing to assure the customer they just want to be empowered and have your credit card to charge. 
Grow a spine and do the deal where nothing is hidden like a man instead of the convoluted bundle of knitting under the table. 

None of the larger suppliers are innocent of at least some of the above. 
I only give my business to smaller honest businesses run by individuals these days as I care less for the corporate 'Arseholes R Us' mega blonks. 

Andrew


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Andrew, calm down your going to have a stroke..................


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

LOL, 

Calm blue oceans, calm blue oceans, calm blue oceans ... 
Big black locomotives, big black locomotives, big black locomotives ...


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh Boy, Wholesaletrains.com is really beautiful people..just the absolute best in the country to deal with!!

I wish that every dealer was as good as gold as Mr. Lantz is..


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

As usual.................................you hear one side of the story. I know, these mega - conglomerate - Evil "Toy" train suppliers are out to get us all. Give me a break, it's a hobby, stuff happens.

SOLUTION:[/i] Put enough cash up to cover the minimum required opening dealer orders for all these products and start your own hobby train store. Then hammer out a deal with a bank for your credit card machines. Thats a lot of fun. With so much credit fraud now you just about cant get one not to mention the charges if you are allowed one. Next, you can set up an account with UPS. You know, the company that says that you have never packed a package correctly. The same company that can break an anvil while its in route. Next get your phone operators. Most show up late each day or not at all. When there, they tell the customer just about anything that the customer wants to hear to make their job easier. Kind of like, "Of course it's in stock" when they are really to lazy to check if the computers inventory is correct...............or my favorite, "Yes.............. it will still ship today" when they saw the UPS man come and go two hours before. Of course its all worth it. You get to hear people complain about so many things that are out of your control in the first place. Like when a supplier lies to you about your delivery time or as you check an order in you realize that a two year old could have pulled it better because they have shipped you so many wrong items and left others out. I could go on and on but I realize that to most around here its a bore.

P.S. Did you know that customers lie too


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)




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## juddweiser (Jun 17, 2008)

My Wholesaletrains.com experience described as factually as possible: 

I was looking for a set of the new Aristo Streamline Passenger Cars that have the recent improvements of being lowered, ball-bearing wheels, detailed interiors, battery capabilities, etc. I was only interested in the new versions. I shopped around online and found a set at wholesaletrains.com with features in the product description consistent with the new versions, like ball bearing wheels, rubber diaphragms and detailed interiors. They were a good price so I ordered them. When they arrived, I opened them to find the old version cars with stickers reading 1998 as the year of manufacture. I called them the next day and told them I was expecting the new version and would not have ordered the set had I known they were the old version. Their sales manager told me that there is only one version and that the set I was sent was the newest version. I'm not sure if this inaccurate statement was because of ignorance or deception. I said that I do not want the old versions and would like an exchange for the new versions. She told me the only versions they have in stock were the ones I got but that she would call Aristocraft to find out if they have any of the new models in stock and get back to me. I never received a return phone call and only spoke to them on calls initiated by me. 

In the meantime, I called another retailer asking about the new Streamline sets and was informed that they sold their last set 3 days earlier and that AC is also out of stock. I called AC at 5:30 EST on a Friday and, on my first attempt, was informed that they were indeed out of the new Streamliners and it would be at least 6-8 months before they expected more. I called wholesaletrains.com back and informed the sales manager of this and was told that they would give me a refund after charging me a 15% restocking fee and I was responsible for return shipping. I offered to take store credit and pay for both return shipping (~$100) and replacement shipping if they would waive the restocking fee. That way they would still be making a $722 sale and I would get some merchandise I actually want. They declined and have offered no flexibility or willingness to try to come to a solution acceptable to me. The return shipping and restocking fee will total a little more than $200, so, while I don't really want the old versions, I haven't decided whether to return them. Since my order, wholesaletrains has changed the description of the Streamline set to be consistent with the old versions. I have since found a retailer (Charles Ro, ironically) that had a new set in stock and have ordered them. 

I think I have been reasonable with wholesaletrains.com in trying to come to a solution but I have been stonewalled the entire time. As I said, I only bought from them because their product description indicated that the Streamliners were the new versions. To me, this was the root of the problem and I had hoped they would be a little more flexible. I am interested to hear what other think about this situation or if anyone has any suggestions. Thanks for reading, 

Judd 

PS If anyone is interested in a brand new set of old version SF Streamliners (baggage, diner, dome and observation), let me know.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)




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## juddweiser (Jun 17, 2008)

Should I have started a new thread?

Judd


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's always a tossup, the problem with a thread 3 pages long, is will people just skip to the end, or start reading from the beginning. It's a source of neverending debate! 

Do what you want, my personal observations are that you don't normally get as good response tacking on to an old expired thread.... 

BUT 

Your post fits right in with the thread. I added the phoenix rising from the ashes as a bit of levity, and also, a trick... sometimes people see that the rest of the thread is old and ignore it, but now there are TWO current posts, and often that gets more response (correction THREE new posts) 


Sorry about your experience, ensuring that you get the newer version is usually virtually impossible with the larger discount houses. A while back Aristo re-did their heavyweight passenger cars, making some significant improvements in the trucks. I had to search for a dealer that knew the difference and guarantee I would get the new ones. 

I bought my stuff from G Scale Trains ... they were very accommodating, and I understand the new ownership is "keeping the faith". 

I'd either return them, or ebay them, since then you can sort of "recoup" your shipping. 

Regards, Greg


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

They falsly advertised, hang them.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Whenever a particular brand (any brand), dealer (any dealer), or product (any product) is brought up there will always be someone who was treated very well and someone else who was treated very poorly. The difficulty is determining on a forum made up of thousands of MLSers which opinions and experiences reflect the majority. 

I have no reason to question or doubt anything that anyone has said here about Wholesale Trains but I would like to offer what I think about Gary Lantz and Wholesale Trains (which is not intended to suggest that everyone else is not entitled to having and voicing their opinions whether they agree with me or not).

1. Gary Lantz and his Wholesale Trains has been a Supporter and Sponsor of My Large Scale from its very beginning. I do not think there is another manufacturer or dealer who comes close to Gary Lantz and Wholesale Trains in terms of their length of support for MLS, their Involvement in actively supporting MLS and their Financial Contributions to MLS. I have no way of knowing if it is true or not but it might be possible that MLS would not exist as it does today if it had not been for that early support Gary gave to the fledgling My Large Scale.

2. Wholesale Trains is not a huge mail order distributor. I have never been to their store but I believe they are much more of a traditional mom and pop hobby shop than a faceless international distributor. As such it is logical to assume that their inventory might include some items that are not the latest off the boat from China (which could be good or bad depending on the buyer's situation).

3, Wholesale Trains has always given discounts to MLSers when possible.

4. Wholesale Trains was the original sponsor of and funded the Photography contests and even now sponsors the Photography Forum.

5. MLS has lost participation by numerous manufacturers and sponsors understandably as the result of attacks on them (right or wrong). Do we want to keep on biting the hands that feed us?

6. I don't know if I have ever met Gary Lantz but several years ago when Gary assuredly did not know me at all I had posted a question on MLS that I was trying to locate a Thomas The Tank train set for my severe autistic granddaughter. I was not asking for anything other than where I could purchase it.

Gary Lantz contacted me and over my objections he took the only Thomas the Tank set he had - which happened to be a set that he was using on his store display and at his expense he shipped that set to me refusing to allow me to even pay for the shipping. Another MLSer (I regretfully have lost his name and wish I had it) joined in and sent his Annie and Clarabel coaches to me - also at no cost.













Lets be careful and reasonable with what we say when it comes to judging others.

"hang them."

Over my dead body. (neither statement is intended factually but both are indicative of the emotions that can be raised)

Jerry


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I have to say that I have had excellent service from Lantz Hobbies/Wholesale Trains. I currently have an order coming from them expected to arrive tomorrow. As is usually the case with them, they shipped the order when I expected it, notified me of the shipped date, gave me a tracking number so I could follow the progress of the shipment, and their prices were very competitive. I really can't ask any more from a vendor. At the current time I am making all of my purchased from Wholesale Trains and RLD Hobbies. Very happy with both.

As others have said, we each develop opinions from our own experiences. I have had excellent service from both of the above mentioned dealers. It is just like with manufacturers, if I had had the problems that a number of members here have had with Aristo, I would be upset with them too. However, my PERSONAL (and I emphasize personal) experience has been excellent with them. In general I buy products from them, put them out and run them and they run with no problem. So, guess what, I like them! Again, my personal experience has not been good with USAT products. In general I have been disappointed with them. Does that make them a bad company? Of course not. It is just my personal experience.

Ed


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## DDB (Aug 28, 2009)

It would be great is civil discourse was the rule. Sadly it is not. If Wholesale trains was routinely abusing customers I bet these pages would be full of stories. I am one of the customers who has walked away after many purchases and what to me is a significant amount of money. I experienced two cases of what I believe were extremely uncaring customer service, the second example with a woman who said she was the manager who I think was extraordinarly rude. Greg E. suggested I contact Gary. My e-mail went unanswered. The good thing is there are lots of vendors with good pricing. My dollars are now going elsewhere. 
Don


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By DDB on 22 Feb 2011 08:19 AM 
It would be great is civil discourse was the rule. Sadly it is not. If Wholesale trains was routinely abusing customers I bet these pages would be full of stories. 
Don 

Hi Don,

That was my point and you said it well.

If someone has a problem AND has made a serious attempt to resolve the problem without success, makes a clear and accurate comment about his experience and elects to move on, in my mind that is a valid complaint followed by a reasonable solution for that individual.

The simple fact is that every company screws up and unfortunately it seems that some individuals have the unfortunate bad luck to experience multiple bad experiences with the same product or company. I have had terrible experiences with Ruger firearms but virtually everyone else I know has had great experiences. The same with gun dealers. I don't do much with guns anymore and it has probably been 20 years since I last bought a Ruger but even though they have had 20 years to improve their products and service I would (dumbly perhaps) not consider buying another Ruger.

No manufacturer or dealer could survive long at all in todays economy if they were not producing products and or services that kept the vast majority of their customers happy.

Ed mentioned USA trains and his experiences have been such that he does not buy them but I buy NW-2's knowing they have weak drive systems because I use them very occasionally and as switchers that do not pull or push heavy loads. I buy them and the PA-1's less because of their drive systems as much as their appearance and road names.

Ed and I can talk about USAT and Aristo-Craft and learn from each other's experiences so we can both be happy with our favorite brands and models. 

Often it is not what is said but how it is said.

Jerry


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Jerry,
What's this about NW-2 and weak drive system? Mine is 6 years old and use it all the time with no problems. Is there something I should be on the watch for in order to prevent future problems?


Thanks,
Mark

*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com*


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By mgilger on 22 Feb 2011 08:58 AM 
Jerry,
What's this about NW-2 and weak drive system? Mine is 6 years old and use it all the time with no problems. Is there something I should be on the watch for in order to prevent future problems?


Thanks,
Mark

*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/* 

Hi Mark,

This sort of falls under the "I did not know I had a problem until someone told me I had a problem."

Unfortunately it happens to be true. I have a number of NW-2's (I like them) but after someone mentioned a problem with them having split gears I discovered that something like 50% (your mileage may vary) of the plastic gears in my NW-2's are visibly split. In all cases the NW-2's were running without any noticeable problems.

Greg has information on his site with information about the problem at http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...inmenu-164

While I have documented the problem with my own NW-2's to be honest I have not done anything about it. I expect that USA Trains will replace any of the defective gears - I have not asked them anything even though I am aware of it.

If you are not experiencing a problem I would not worry too much about it other than to be aware that there is a good chance that at some point (maybe tomorrow or maybe 20 years from now) you might find the gear is slipping around the drive shaft. On the other hand if you have the gear in one motor block slipping and the other is not slipping you might be putting a lot of pressure on the good gear. 

This is not i(n my opinion) related to use or abuse as I have one new/unused (I've had it several years) NW-2 motor block that when I opened it to check the gear was split.

If I did not buy a brand or model that had a potential (or even a confirmed) problem I would not own most of my favorite locomotives. I buy what I like and in most cases the manufacturers eventually make my problems go away.

Jerry


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## juddweiser (Jun 17, 2008)

Jerry,

My intention when I posted a couple of weeks ago was to get some feedback from others on this forum and also to maybe illicit a response from Mr. Lantz, who I know is a contributor to this site and has participated in this thread. The only way to get good feedback was to tell the entire story. Greg offered his opinion (along with a pretty cool picture of a phoenix), which I ultimately agreed with so I returned the set to Wholesaletrains and ate the return shipping costs. I have had no contact with them since and I am still waiting to see how this plays out with the refund. As I said, I was trying to get feedback and direction from others that may have had experience with the Lantz's because the way my situation was handled wasn't consistent with the way others, like yourself and Greg, were treated. I hope to continue to use them for future purchases, which, as a newcomer to the hobby, will probably be numerous, but I will only do so if I am satisfied with the way this is resolved.



Incidentally, the set I ordered from Charles Ro are indeed the new version streamliners.

Regards,

Judd


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By juddweiser on 08 Feb 2011 02:07 PM 
My Wholesaletrains.com experience described as factually as possible 



Hello Judd,

I was not responding to your comments. Your statement above was clear enough and I had no reason to question or challenge your comments. It is not my job to defend Wholesale Trains or anyone else.

I did not read your comments because I already have my own opinion about Wholesale Trains (as I mentioned) and I had no intention of making any further comments on this topic.

My attention was drawn back to this topic when the comment "hang em" was posted. Whether the comment was whimsical or purposeful I think it harms the hobby and MLS when such comments are made about any person, manufacturer or dealer.

Comments are often made about the need for courtesy and respect but if we as individuals as well as a group say nothing when a person, manufacturer or dealer is spoken to or about with flippant disregard for the importance and seriousness of their reputation we end up with the sort of forum we deserve.

I don't know anything about the person who made the comment and I am not singling him out for any reason. I just happen to take this hobby seriously and I think we owe it to ourselves and to all the participants of this hobby to be respectful even when we are upset with them.

Jerry


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## juddweiser (Jun 17, 2008)

I agree, Jerry. I actually didn't think you were responding to me, however, I did want to make clear the reason for my initial post. Unfortunately, I was never given the opportunity to speak to Mr. Lantz and perhaps the situation would have been handled differently if I had. As I said, I am still waiting to see how this will play out and I'm hoping that Mr. Lantz is still monitoring this thread because he sounds to be more reasonable and more concerned with customer satisfaction that the lady I dealt with. 

Take care,

Judd


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

I use Wholesale Trains mostly for R/C aircraft parts (some trains too!). I recently purchased some spare parts for an out-of-production airplane. Always been a pleasant experience for me. One of my "go to" internet sources.


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Perhaps just a horse whipping would be in order, I was a little harsh. LOL 
I have had no bad experiences with Mr Lanz because he uses a very expensive shipping company and I have therefore never placed an order. 

It all comes down to who has the power, once some vendors entice you with false advertising and have your credit card they don't give a hoot, don't quote up front, don't communicate and it is common for them to profiteer on shipping charges. 
To supply stock that was not the same as advertised only to then charge a fee is a crime in my country. 
Who do they think they are, St Aubins? That's right it is covered in the fine print the lawyer drafted up. Plain old middle class manipulation for the pork bellied set. This town ain't big enough for the two of us and showing your back is the best way of getting the deal done right. 
Give your money to who deserves it and none for the shifty. (Axe rests on block).


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## lawken2001 (Oct 1, 2012)

I ordered 20 1500mm LGB Flex Track along with the 50 ties that would be needed for my garden project. They had the best price that I could find and indicated that they were in stock. The order shipped in 2 days and I received it in about 7 business days (I am accross the country from them). Had no problem and I was able to track the shipment throughout the process.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)




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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL... that's just perfect Greg...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, surprisingly, there's a number of funny ones on the internet...


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks Greg,
You're two posts made it worth my wasted time clicking on this thread. They gave me some good laughs. 
Bob


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