# Unimpressed



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry, I have just quickly gone through the various menus and I am not impressed with the changes.


I am ready to take the heat for my views, but unless I see some drastic improvements over the next couple of days, I will probably visit much less than in the past./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif


I have looked for old posts anc cannot find them.  Where are all the old topics?  And why do they not appear as before?  Why should I have to go to Archives if that is the secret to seeing previous posts (I don't even know how to go to Archives).


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gifI had the devil's time getting logged in...seems the system not only changed my password to a bunch of gibberish for me, but didn't want to mail me the password either. Made me feel very loved./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


 


And it also seems you have to be logged in to contact Shad to tell him you can't log in...bit of a Catch-22 there /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Everything is working fine for me..


Must be a benefit of being a member!


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

It changed my password to something I had to write down in the hope of not forgetting it. 

And having all the old threads vanish is irksome (I had a nice one going in the 'Indoor' subforum.) 

Just have to see how things work out.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

On the positive side, I see we now have the 'sneak peek' function or whatever its called for the various threads (the little yellow box deal that pops up with the opening lines of a given post). 

It also seems we don't have to hit the 'refresh' button or 'move ahead' for new posts to show (very bad explaining there) - most recent post is there when you hit the 'back' button...I think.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck,                                        I didn't have any problem either.                                  Nick Jr


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## Mark L Horstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Me too - "Unimpressed" that is. 

So far, I see no advantage to this change, but the huge disadvantage - locking and archiving all of the old threads - is extremely, glaringly, obvious. It will be quite a while, methinks, before this site recovers from that disruption. 

Sorry, Shad, I appreciate the work that must have gone into this (and all of the work put into the site as a whole over the years), but I'm not pleased.


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll have to say that so far the the experience with this new set-up hasn't  been a fun experience at all..


I now have a new password, that I had a hard time getting, windows keeps telling me its a suspicious


website, it appears to be slower than the 2nd coming, the web space appears to have gotten lost,


guess we'll get used to it though... Sure would like to have my old password back... Maybe Shad will


get it all fixed in awhile...


Paul R...


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Please understand that this is a work in progress.  If I had waited for everything to be perfect, nothing would have ever changed.  You may think that it shouldn't have changed, but you have no idea how much easier this new system will make my life in the long run.  It's well worth a few weeks of discomfort while everything gets migrated over and sorted out.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Having done in such projects over the years when I was involved in IT I am more than willing to give it a few weeks to stabilize... 

one question - the time for posts seems to be tied to UTC (Greenwich time) - is this normal? 

dave


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By ThinkerT on 01/02/2008 1:41 AM
It changed my password to something I had to write down in the hope of not forgetting it. 

And having all the old threads vanish is irksome (I had a nice one going in the 'Indoor' subforum.) 

Just have to see how things work out.


You can reset your password to whatever you want in your profile. Click on your name at the top right hand corner and then click on 'Manage Password.'


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Change is hard and a lot of us get set in our ways and do not like change. 

I am in an industry where change takes place almsot daily and it is hard to keep up at times. 

Time does march on and we all will adjust to the change and most likely will like the changes after we tune in to the newness.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I have also gotten the warning about this being a "Suspicious Website".


Why is that happening?


 


My password has not been affected.  However, whenI log in the site does not recognize my anymore.  I have to re-enter my login and password each time now.


The main irritation is not being able to see the old posts.


I see nothing that indicates how to access the old posts.  There is no Archive button.


 


John


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## erhard (Jan 2, 2008)

happy new year to all  

anything works fine with the new forums  

i would wish a button for the archives. many of the old stuff is missed. 

greetings 

erhard


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Can someone please send me a screenshot of the "suspicious website" error? 

When you log in, there is a checkbox right underneath the login button that says 'Remember Login'. If that is not checked, the system will not save your login information between sessions. If it is checked, and it's still not working, your web browser is blocking cookies, which is another symptom of the "suspicious website" error. 

I have added a link in the community drop down menu to the forum archives.


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Shad,


 My password sure was effected, now just a bunch of numbers. Any way to change passwords back? I know, I am old and set in my ways, so change is hard. Change CAN be good, so lets give the new format a chance folks!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


Happy Rails To You,


Ted (don't know if former signature will work or not)


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Shad, 

I initially thought I was reeling from the after affects of New Year but then remembered I had very little to drink. There was now way that I could Log In, even with a new password (numbers) supplied by the Forum. I wanted to keep this Forum running - I usually ditch troublesome places lol - so I decided that the quickest way forward was to re-resister using the same Name but new password. This worked, so I guess I was one who fell down that ole crack! 

Now I am "in". so as to speak, I will mention that the appearance of the page looks clean to me: I guess it is like driving a new car. 

My site advisor gives you a green so there is nothing worrying in that direction at the moment. As with all things new - time will tell.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 01/02/2008 4:29 AM
Change is hard and a lot of us get set in our ways and do not like change. 

I am in an industry where change takes place almsot daily and it is hard to keep up at times. 

Time does march on and we all will adjust to the change and most likely will like the changes after we tune in to the newness.




Change is an evil thing It's all Bill Gate's fault. And now they're putting microsoft products in ford cars, all I can think of is firmware updates, security patches, BSODs, hotfixes and version upgrades. Sorry for that sideways rant, I can understand trying to ease the administration of systems, that's what I do for a day job, that's also why I like the less complex and more archaic side of this hobby.


As long as I can find what has become a great repository of people and information I'll be happy. And the new site will flesh out in no time.


 


Good job Shad!


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## JRT3 (Jan 2, 2008)

On the positive side... this has been my shortest visit here - not much to read. I, too, wonder about that 'phishing' reminder I got here...


 


John


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## spodwo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have also gotten the warning about this being a "Suspicious Website". 

Why is that happening?




I think this is more a feature of your windows or explorer system. 

My password was "slightly" altered. It was correct but the it didn't bleed over the "caps" I had set.... 

I did the email password and noted that....I changed my profile with no problem. 

Speed appears to be the same to me. 

Archives of all the former posts are here... 


 


archive.mylargescale.com/forum/


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## JRT3 (Jan 2, 2008)

I tried changing the numerical PW to my old, simpler for my aged noggin to recall, PW - it wouldn't take it. I'll try again later - maybe replace my missing signature, too..


John


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## Havoc (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the new layout, but a few things are rather rough edges: 
- you cannot change your password??? Or is it just hidden somewhere very deep? 
- the indicator for PM's at the bottom of the page. It was now already very low-profile, but I fear I'm going to forget to look at it completely now. 
- was it really not possible to transplant the database? 
- at least a sticky thread at the top of each forum with a link to the archive would have been nice. Now it looks like everything is just broken.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Arrived here with no problem , BUT , the letters are lighter now than they were ,which is harder for me to read the printing now , can I make the printing darker/bolder from here ?


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dennis Paulson on 01/02/2008 6:25 AM
Arrived here with no problem , BUT , the letters are lighter now than they were ,which is harder for me to read the printing now , can I make the printing darker/bolder from here ?


*Same for me....  Arrived OK and have been browsing but the font color is a bit hard on "older" eyes.*


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Chat seems a lot faster !


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

On PODS post , he had the old way saved in a link , went there , and side by side comparrison , shows the old FONT much easier to read for me than this new font/color , sure hope Shad can help us older guys with darker lettering .


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Shad, I like the web site.  I hope it gives you more time to spend with your family and run trains.  I am also having fun reading all these gripes.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2008)

I to also have a new password #'s yuck...site seems very slow... i also lost all links i had saved to this site and pictures,that sucks. overall i'm not impressed either,/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gifmore things change the more other plces there are to go go when you can't get what you had here..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Havoc on 01/02/2008 6:12 AM
- at least a sticky thread at the top of each forum with a link to the archive would have been nice. Now it looks like everything is just broken.


I will work on getting that done over the next few days.  Today is my first day back at work after two weeks off, so it may take a little time.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

at least a sticky thread at the top of each forum with a link to the archive would have been nice. Now it looks like everything is just broken.


 


I agree, I quick link in each section would be a great reference.


Yes, I know the archives have a link in the title bar.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight


Did not see your response prior, thanks for the upcoming effort to make a reference link and the steam folders.


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Come on Guys... Give Shad a break.... 


I know that he has worked and is working very hard to keep this site up and running as a place for us to share our love of Trains!


This is after all HIS site. Just remember where we would be if not for Shad setting up this site and allowing us to come here to play./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gifChange is never easy and we can either sit here and complain about whatever problems we have with it or we can help him make it better and solve the problems. I for one am very glad that I have a place that is as open and friendly as MLS and where I can share my trains and get help with the problems I run into with my trains. I get a very real sense of family here and whatever it takes for Shad to keep this site running and make his life easier I'm all for it... After all he does have a family and a really job too!!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


 


THANK YOU SHAD for all the work that you do for us and for allowing us to come play in your sandbox!!! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


 


HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

The posts are hard to read as the font size is too small and light blue in color. I see nothing on the toolbar to adjust the size. Most of us are over the hill and our eyes aren't what they used to be. Change is always dificult and we can help Shad by pointing out those differences that affect us the most.


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## Chuck K (Jan 2, 2008)

The only thing that changes is change itself. Let's kick the tires a few more times and open and close the doors. Look under the hood and in the trunk, turn a few knobs and push a few buttons, then test drive it. You have to admit the shay banner is pretty cool. Looks like there is still hope for gear heads! 

Chuck K


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

GRRRR!!!!!!!!!


Well I for one DO NOT like the fact that I will have to *REDO* my building logs from *SCRATCH*/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif


G.D.it, Its not an inconvenience, its a major PITA !    So, IOWs everything Past is DOA...we're starting over from scratch....Grrrrr


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm happy to give the new place a chance and a little time to get sorted out. Chat seems to be working. Although, I prefered the larger window with more of the previous posts showing. I also get an intermittent doorbell sound in chat? What's that about? 
My only real suggestion would be to change the gray (on my computer) lettering in the posts and enlarge the font size as well. The messages themselves are the least readable things on the page. Is there a way we can change this ourselves? 
Good luck to Shad on the improved site and thanks for all the effort involved. 
Chris


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## NW Jim (Jan 2, 2008)

I love the new look - much cleaner looking and easier to read.  I also like the fact that you can place your cursor over the topic and get a preview of the message.  If I want to read it or pass on it, then it's my choice.


Took a moment to re-log in, but everything is set for me now.


Very nice work Shad!  Thanks!!!


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## greyshaker (Jan 2, 2008)

I made  it in with no problems. It will probably take some getting used to but I'll give it a shot.


I would like and could use larger fonts. 


Frank


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

No problems here! 


all is working fine..


and as for "unimpressed"..im not seeing the problem..


everything looks fine to me.


and is it _really_ a big deal that all the old threads are now archived??


I dont think so..


the average thread only has a lifespan of a few days anyway..new topics start all the time. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif 


one odd thing..im getting a double-space when I hit enter..that shouldnt be there, maybe it wont show up in the message..


one thing I want to test is the search! I really hope we can search ALL forums at once again, rather than only one forum at a time..that was a major drawback..


im going to test it right now!


will report back..


Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Well..the NEW forum allows searching of multiple forums at once! yay! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


for me, that is probably the biggest improvement! 


the search function was basically useless before, because you couldnt find anything because you had to search one forum at a time..


im very happy to see the search fixed!


but to search all the old posts, its the same as it was../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif can onyl search one forum at a time..


all the old posts are archived in the old "version" of MLS..so the search there is the same as it was..thats a bummer.


but overall I like the new format!


I think its a winner...


can anything be done about the double-space?


when I hit enter to form a new line I get a double space instead of a single space..


the only way to get a single space is to type all the way to end of the window like this this this this this jljsfh asdkhuiu a'djfk;adsjfdk;as jdfjdfjfjfja'sd' eooeoeoeoeoe still going,......still typing there it goes, it went over the line and made a single space for me..


but I type in small lines..


like this..


any way to fix that double-space and make it single?


thanks,


looks good shad! 


Scot


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 01/02/2008 8:13 AM 

and is it _really_ a big deal that all the old threads are now archived??


I dont think so..


the average thread only has a lifespan of a few days anyway..new topics start all the time. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif 


Scot


 


Thats fine for you Scot, but several of us had ongoing building logs...plus previous threads that are frequently referenced, some that go back a long ways, what about US?


I for one now have to recreate the building log for my layout, I dont want to just post a link to the previous, only a few day old, and now archived original topic.  Theres a discontinuity to it, and thats a pisser for me. All my past building logs, including projects that I havent finished yet, will end up with having a link to the archived posts but that often makes for some very inconvenient reading. Plus I dont know if the search option will automaticly reference the archive. theres a wealth of information in there that will not be readily apparent to newcomers.


I know alot of this will eventually work itself out but for the meantime, please excuss me if I seam a bit P.O.'d till I get my past posts in order.


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## Henson (Jan 2, 2008)

I too am having trouble reading the small gray printing. I changed my computer from larger to largest setting but not much help. I'm sure I would like the changes but just to hard on my eyes to stay logged on for very long at a time.  Also I have never had trouble with speed like some have and now it is real slow.  I mean real slow.

Henson


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Not to sound like a grumpy PitA, but the pages seem to be loading rather slowly (up to 20 seconds to load) when you click on a new item or forum (Okay, I'm on DSL so I'm probably spoiled) Is this something that will go away?


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

I also am finding the small, gray text hard to read.  Also, I'm finding that navigating through this website is even slower than before the change.  I seem to be spending quite a lot of time looking at the little "Waiting for WWW.Mylargescale.com" at the bottom of my screen.  When this changeover is finalized, will the speed be improved?


Llyn


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## Havoc (Jan 2, 2008)

Other less desirable things: 
- slow... the old site wasn't a speed devil, but that hasn't changed. 
- no list of previous posts when using the reply button at the bottom of the screen. Very difficult to reply and paste in a piece of some posts with a quote in order to make it more readable. 
- when I use the "add reply" button at the bottom of the list, I cannot post the reply. I get a screen with my reply gone and a red * next to "body". Using the "quick reply" works. This on Opera 9.22/linux. 
- the grey text is hard to read, plain black please like in the reply window. 
- for some reason I now only have smilies at the side in the reply window. No more buttons for quote, bold, etc.


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

*SLOW, SLOWER, and SLOWEST!    *Is this something that will work itself out?  The pagest take forever to load.   Had no problem loading the old forum.  I'm on DSL with AOL.


Is this an AOL issue, DSL issue, my clunky old computer, or a web server issue on the opening days?  Hopefully the speed issue can be worked out.  It's not enjoyeable clicking on a forum and waiting for a screen to pop up. 


Tom


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been emailing some of the members and have "Sort Of" discovered the problem.


It is the BROWSER.  We don't all have the same one.


When some post a message they have a font size and text size box. Some Do Not.


Some have a small Font Size and some Don't.


I believe Shad already knows this and is probably working on it.


No doubt, it will take time to iron out all the quirks.


Hope this has been of some help.


Regards, Dennis


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I just attempted a search and it didn't return either a 'nothing found' or anything from the archive.  If the archive will in fact remain disconnected from the main site a tremendous amount of information will have been lost.  


I would like to recommend that a sticky be made somewhere that points out that newcommers should go to the archive to search old posts for information if this hasn't been done already.


Raymond


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## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. So far it is slower, harder to navigate and has lost a lot of info. Sorry you spent so much time and money. 

John


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I find it just as slow as the old site. And that's not good. I'm on cable at 10 megs per second using BOTH Firefox and IE7. So I don't believe it is the browser OR the connection. Something going on in Utah.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Shad, 

Not only am I Impressed with how smoothly things seem to be progressing here, but considering where the site started all those many years ago, I can only imagine the stress involved with keeping us train nutz pleased. Thanks for all the hard work, it's really looking good.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Shad,


I like the revamped look and feel of the website.  I like the button bar at the top of this post.  Keep up your good work, it will get worked out, I am sure!


 Hey, and now we get to have the 'post' challenge again!  Anyone remember the folks that used to post just for the sake of increasing their 'status'!!


Mark


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## eddie (Jan 2, 2008)

the only problem I had was tryng to login


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok so far I'm getting used to this brave New World, I can still access my web storage, upload pics, search and find old topics and link new topics to them,


BUT... the lack of a easy way to post pics is going to be a *real pisser* till that gets straightened out, we need an *IMAGE ICON* in the posting toolbars ...*PRONTO!*


If I have to hand type the image brackets for each picture I want to add to a post I fail to see the advantage.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to say again, the MS Office style of writing replies and topics is a definite plus to help others understand the intracies of url posts.  Coming from other fourms, this is by far the best laid out system for writing a reply.  Also have to agree with Mark, it's nice to have the qick-pick-link bar spread out right at the top of the post.  A definite thumbs up, this will make posting those build logs much easier. 


 


One question though, do we still have a time limit on editing our posts, or is that lifted?


 


Let the post battles begin!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Might want to re-establish the last post link on a thread. We use to be able to click on the arrow once onto the topic and  it would guide us to the last person's input on a topic. At this time one must click on the title and scroll through all the replies. Yes,- spoiled are we not!!!


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey,


I like the 'builder's log' page.  That's kind of cool. I might use that to have a running log on my railroad status and ongoing projects.  That way, its a record for me and for the masses of what's up at my railroad!


Mark


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Place looks fine to me. The gray type would be better black for me. Like the way things look for right now. Will explore some, but looks like it will work, down the line. Hard on us old folk!   Wonder if posting pix will be a pain again?


Jerry


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## bearswood (Jan 2, 2008)

I am impressed on the work that has taken place to create the new site. I have waited til now to add my builder's log even though this builder (myself) leaves a lot to be desired.. In technology, changes can be daily, much to everyones chagrin, just like the weather everything will become calmer as the wind settles down. Looking forward to next phase of changes. Great work so far Shad.


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## The Kritter (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to agree with John McGuyer. If it ain't broke, Don't fix it! Yes, you can recreate the topics that were being followed, but why do extra work when this is supposed to be a relaxing hobby?


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Regardless of the bugs, stuff that doesn't work and non existent links to my old posts, how is this better? Ditto on the *Unimpressed*! 

-Brian


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

What time zone is this in?


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, the name is still "myLargescale.com" so I aint a bitchin!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif (Gads! I _love _these new smileys!!)/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/satisfied.gif


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## Havoc (Jan 2, 2008)

Font seems to have been changed for the better!!! Thanks. 

I still cannot reply using the "add reply"...this really puzzles me. I'm going to delete all cookies. I changed my password but the site never asked me to login again. So maybe it doesn't know that I'm logged in when I get in the reply page.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

I really like th option of either old/new replies. I rather go to new replies once I have begun the topic of discussion than have to scroll through or be directed to the original post


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## OzarkRR (Jan 2, 2008)

For me the site is faster and I do like the new font.


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## Bcurtis (Jan 2, 2008)

In the past couple of hours the site has improved 500% !!!  At first it was way slow... not it is much better.  Links to the Archived posts are a good idea as there is a storehouse of info there for us relative "Newbies".  Thanks for the hardwork Web Meister.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm seeing black again, instead of gray font.  Easier to read!


Dang, where's that post count at now?


/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## David Hazel (Jan 2, 2008)

No problems here.Re-set my password and then re-set back to my prevoius one. 

Thanks


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Jury's still out on the site so far as my poor ol' dialup is concerned. Seems a bit slower though. Hopefully that'll improve. 
Managed to get logged in and post a test photo. Only problem thus far is when I used the message preview button the preview came up okay but then when I hit the return arrow everything disappeared including my most witty and knowledgeable post. [] I don't see a preview button here now. just a submit button. 

I'll go slow for a couple of weeks to see how it all works out. Don't know yet if I like the changes but I think we owe it to Shad to wait a bit before we get all worked up. Also becoming more familiar with the new format will make it look better too.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm! Wonder what happened to my logo? Oh well!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

You get to start your profile, including your logo,  from scratch.  Not much to that, though.


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## Becky Francis (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard, you will have to re-enter it in your profile.  Go check out "Website Forum" for info on "signatures".


Becky


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I do like the fact that you can have a small photo for a personal picture separate from your signature.  Pretty cool.


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## CJGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Rayman, where do access this feature? I was un able to locate it


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Weird....post didn't work for me the first time...anyways.... 

To access the Avatar feature, go to the edit profile link under Members. It is the last option on the page. I could only upload one from my HDD, wouldn't link from my 1st class space (again, weird). upload it, update your profile, and go to town! The signature option is in the same place. 

In short: 
Members ->select your name ->edit profile.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well here we go again start from scratch and learn new tricks. Man its heck getting old and have to learn all over again. Later RJD


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## Boiler (Jan 2, 2008)

Much nicer, thanks.


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## wmumpower (Jan 2, 2008)

So far this is a great improvement for me.  I was one of the ones having a heck of a time with the old site.  It was slow as all get out, hung up on posts, hung up trying to go from one article to another and just a royal pain.  That's a major reason I have not been so active here the last year.  I just got tired of fighting with it.  At this point this new software is operating smoothlessly.  I did have to change my password and then change it back but that went smooth.  I have not had a chance to play with all the toys yet, but that will come.


Hopefully some of the builder's logs etc. can be migrated over to this site.


I see that Vic made the change ------>/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif but where's Marty----->/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


 


/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


----------



## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

I sometimes fall into the "I don't want to change" side of things, but they usually work out and for the better.  Site changes are always tough but are usually well thought out and give us all more to work with.


We all work hard to make our railroads work the way we want them to - so let's do the same here.


----------



## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Well it is going faster then it was earlier today,/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif But  do you mean to tell me it's an improvement to manually type in the comands to post a picture?  Oh Great a spell checker that not there!
If I were going to post a picture I woud have to open a 2nd MLS page select the picture and "copy the URL like before, but then remember all the commands with the correct bracketing to post.. 








lets see how this works/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif
Hope they can restore the command short-cuts
Jeff


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh well guess I'm not posting pics any more/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif  That why I became a paying member well this sucks./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif


up date:


Ok I found what was wrong. What has changed is the "center" command is no longer needed.


Is it safe to load the spell check program?


----------



## Robert Fasnacht (Jan 2, 2008)

*From the thread commentary, "smoothlessly" might well be the operative word, if, indeed, there is such a word.  Being unable to reach archived posts certainly falls into the category of "smoothlessly"  Perhaps, in due course, "smoothlessly" will change to "smoothly."*


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff


Have been able to post from my 1st class file, but as you indicate having to open a second page.












 


Along with the "browse" limited size photos that require a size reduction in advance


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Robert Fasnacht on 01/02/2008 5:45 PM


*From the thread commentary, "smoothlessly" might well be the operative word, if, indeed, there is such a word.  Being unable to reach archived posts certainly falls into the category of "smoothlessly"  Perhaps, in due course, "smoothlessly" will change to "smoothly."*



 


*Archived posts are totally "reachable"..that is not one of the problems with the new forum.. all old posts are all still there, just as easy to find as they ever were..it now takes two extra clicks to find them.. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/doze.gif oooh..so difficult. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif

*


* And as for the IMG tags..it... will.... get.... fixed.....! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif*


 


*Scot
*


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## bryanj (Jan 2, 2008)

Geez Louis, Lets give it more than one day to work out the bugs, Why dontCha !


----------



## bryanj (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff, I want to know more about that picture, WOW.


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## Rookwood Central (Jan 2, 2008)

Change for change sake is never good. Hard to navigate. Font is all different sizes. We will wait and see if this all works out, but so far, not impressed


----------



## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

was wondering if it works












tomh


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

This has been fun so far checking things out.  So far I started a blog, but I need to edit my updates, so I haven't made it public yet.  I also added an avitar (my picture) to my post.  I'm wondering if this Topic will have the most views in a 24 hour period.  It's over 1572 now.


Thanks Shad,


Tommy


Rio Gracie


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a test.  About an hour ago, I was attempting to post a msg, and kept having it dissappear into the ether.  Tried on my wife's machine as well.  Both Macs running Safari.  So I thought I'd com back & try with Firefox.  But even opening this window, I get this big blue toolbar I didn't have before, so I suspect Shad's been sawing & nailing in the background.


So let's see if this works..


 


_Sonofa.._


_I just logged out and logged back in under Safari.  Could *NOT* see blue toolbar, & could *NOT *post!_


_So *Attention Mac Users!  Please switch out of Safari now!  *Firefox works, don't know about any others!!*/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif*_


_And hey, howcum we're all starting numbers & classifications all over again?  I blathered LOTS to earn my engineer's badge!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif_


_ PS > Preview button also works in Firefox, not in Safari.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif_


_ Gary, who used to be the garden rail hobo..._


_ _


_Oh.. SHUCKS  Submit is now not working.  Hello out there....?_


 


Okay... even under Firefox, I could not reply to myself!  So I cut and pasted everything you see in italics above, and now we'll see if I can submit this edit!


No..... it won't! what do I do now??


----------



## Eric Cooper (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm ok with the new format, but then change has never been a big deal to me.  It'll all shake out in a few weeks and we'll be happy as clams again.  I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and chill for a while.  I don have one question that was asked and not answered earlier:  What time zone is this in?  The last post before mine was sometime around 3 am, yet here in the Pacific Time Zone I am posting this at 7:42pm.  Huh?


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I don have one question that was asked and not answered earlier: What time zone is this in? The last post before mine was sometime around 3 am, yet here in the Pacific Time Zone I am posting this at 7:42pm. Huh?

You should be able to set the time zone in your profile. As I understand it, that will display all times in the time zone you select.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Bryanj,


 The photo I posted above is of Jim Stapleton's track in Va. It's a super track to run on. Over 560ft  long tripple track main line, and enough sidings to hold hundreds of cars.


Jeff


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

I think that I'll take a "wait 'n see" on how things shake out here before I commence to any neggative commentary.


Like someone else said, "It's only been a day" (or so), so I imagine there are things that need a good shaking out...  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

I like it so far. 
LAO


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Duncan, 

Are you spanking the monkey in your avatar? 










-Brian


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

At  the moment, a half-hour after logging on, I am unimpressed. To me, what a site looks like is not important. It's the message that counts . After logging on (finally) I felt like I was in a room full of strangers. Sure, there were some familiar names--when they finally fought their way through the electronic thicket. But every familiar site I couldn't wait to visit was now in purgatory. Yeah, I could visit it, but I'd have to drop dead, metaphorically speaking, to get there.


Based on what I know about each of our members (I read their personal histories), it appears the love its and hate its are pretty much divided according to age. The younger, tech-savvy guys thinks it's great, the older and computer-impaired guys like me think it...er, leaves a lot to be desired.  I'll get  back to you on that.


Regarding spellcheck, or the lack thereoff: whoa (pronounced "ho," in spite of the way it's spelled) is spelled w-h-o-a. "Whoah," as it appears in the new welcoming screen looks like it sounds out as "hoo-ah," which is OK if you are doing an Al Pacino impression from "Scent of a Woman."


----------



## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

So far the site ain't bad!  Still a bit slow to my estimation even considering my dialup. I hope we don't lose too many members getting "lost" trying to navigate around. I had a devil of a time finding the right trail to edit my profile. *A preview button is sorely needed to check our posts before hitting "Submit" though. I never use spellcheck so I need a preview look at what I've done especially on captioning photos. I trust one will be forthcoming?*


*There is a preview button on the Reply page.  There is none on the "Quick Reply" at the bottom of each page.*


Test:*[red]Test*[/red][/size=6]​


Why won't this work?


*Most of the old forum codes don't work right now.  One has to use standard HTML.  The Reply page has buttons to allow formatting of text.  Again, these don't appear on the "Quick Reply."  These buttons work just like MS Word.  Highlight the text you want to change, then click the appropriate buttons to center, change the color, size, format, etc.  It's actually much easier.   Play around with it a little.*
*example:*
*Test*
*Sorry Richard... hit "Edit" when I meant to hit "Quote" /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif Dwight*


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Brian,


That would be simian primate discipline.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm! Okay. I'll try in a few days. I got a lot of gibberish when I edited the previous post. Probably either work in progress glitch or i need a personal navigator. hehe!


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Duncan,


How did you get ahold of my driver's license photo?


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks much *Dwight for the info! */DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/satisfied.gif


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 01/02/2008 9:14 PM
Duncan, 

Are you spanking the monkey in your avatar? 










-Brian 




Could be a whole lot worse .../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/animated8-KubricksGhost.gif


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like child abuse to me./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif  Someone may turn ya in.  Later RJD


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## Big65Dude (Jan 2, 2008)

Took a little while to traverse the "learning curve" but I finally got my signature to look and work the way I wanted. Still haven't figured out how to submit, preview or edit my postings, however. 

I'm beginning to like the new format, nevertheless. I guess time will tell. 

As the fella who fell off the roof of a ten-story building said as he passed the second floor: "So far, so good..."


/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm... if you "haven't figured out how to submit... postings" how is it that I am reading them?


As for "preview", the "Quick Reply" does not have one.  Only if you click "Quote" or "Reply" in a previous post or "Add a reply" at the bottom of top of a post can you preview a "Reply".


As for "Editing", *your* postings should have a button in the upper right (where "Quote" and "Reply" are) that you can click.  (You won't find that button in anybody else's postings/replies.)


To start a new topic, go to the content page of any forum and clckc the "Add new Topic" button just above the list of topics in the forum.


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## Big65Dude (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 01/03/2008 3:59 PM


Hmmm... if you "haven't figured out how to submit... postings" how is it that I am reading them?



As for "preview", the "Quick Reply" does not have one. Only if you click "Quote" or "Reply" in a previous post or "Add a reply" at the bottom of top of a post can you preview a "Reply".



As for "Editing", *your* postings should have a button in the upper right (where "Quote" and "Reply" are) that you can click. (You won't find that button in anybody else's postings/replies.)



To start a new topic, go to the content page of any forum and clckc the "Add new Topic" button just above the list of topics in the forum.









That's exactly what I'm doing without success. I get the edit window, I make my changes but when I hit the submit button the body section goes blank and has a red asterisk next to it. Nothing happens after that. The only way I've found that works is to paste my edited reply into the "Quick Reply" window and it shows up (as I have done here.)


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## Big65Dude (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe Shad or Dwight can figure out what's going on, or what I'm doing wrong. 

BTW, I'm using a Mac (OS 10.5.1) and my browser is _*Safari*_.


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack: 

Same platform & same problems here. I just put this on the "Feedback" page, but it is asking for suggestions and I don't have a suggestion, so I guess we will just have to wait someone is able to make a suggestion. 

The behavior is similar using Opera on a PC. It shows Javascript errors such as "Void 0" in reply to the "Submit" button. 

Happy RRing, 

Jerry


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Big65Dude on 01/03/2008 4:15 PM
 my browser is _*Safari*_.


Therein lies your problem.  Safari is notorious for not supporting many features that other better web browsers do.  I guarantee that firefox would work well for you.


----------



## Big65Dude (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Big65Dude on 01/03/2008 4:15 PM
Maybe Shad or Dwight can figure out what's going on, or what I'm doing wrong. 

BTW, I'm using a Mac and my browser is _*Safari*_. Mac OS 10.5.1


Okay, I just tried to do the same thing (edit) on  - _*Firefox*_ - and the edit, preview and submit buttons now work fine.


Also, this time I got the tool bars above the edit window, which I never saw when I was using _*Safari*_.


Go figure.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack, Gary & Any Other Mac Users (Along with Anyone Interesting in Helping): 

I'm not absolutely certain, but it appears that the way the "Feedback" page works is that people have to vote for whether a posted "suggestion" is addressed or not. I don't understand why a website problem report requires suggestions and voting to get fixed, but that is the way MLS is now setup. 

Please go there and vote to fix the Mac + Safari platform problems, or they might not ever rise to the top of the barrel! 

Thanks for the Support & Happy RRing, 

Jerry


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

Shad: 

I can guarantee that firefox does not support many (as in can't read the address) of the several thousand bookmarks I have, along with demanding (actually 'suggesting') that I update it virtually every week. Since I am on a dial-up connection, this becomes a royal PITA. No thanks. I'll stick with software that was written by someone paid to do it, is sold as a product, and has technical support rather than free opinions to fix problems. 

For your information, I participate in dozens of web groups addressing model and prototype RRs, recreational vehicles, tools, construction, CAD support, technology, etc. and Safari does not have a problem with any of them. Also, my current version (3.0.3) of Safari did not previously have any problems with MLS. 

I would truly appreciate any effort you could make to get this simple (apparently JavaScript) problem addressed. 

Thanks & Happy RRing, 

Jerry


On Edit: Just trying to be part of the solution rather than the problem, I have now downloaded the latest version (2.0.0.11) of Firefox. The previous time I tried it, I had something like version 1.0.x.


I am going to try using it to access MLS, with my first trial being this edit. So far (other than it being very slow) it looks like it works. One small bug is that it always double spaces when hitting return. I guess I'll get use to that.


One thing I have forgotten to mention: Although I have posted several times in this "Unimpressed" thread, *I am definitely not in the unimpressed group*. Overall, the new forum and tools look pretty good. Just different, and when all the corners of the box are explored, probably a significant improvement.


More later.


Happy RRing,


Jerry


----------



## Michael Tollett (Jan 3, 2008)

There is one thing I noticed in the Dispatch thread that I for one don't necessarily agree with, but then this isn't MY site to make those kinds of decisions.


It is made very clear in the New and Improved thread, that there are some additions and "plusses" that are only available to 1st Class membership. So in essence it seems that other than the new skin, losing all the "now archived" posts, and an overall purging of past material, the momentum towards the "added improvements" was targeted mainly towards 1st Class members.


I have to say this: I was a 1st Class member for a time. I have since let me 1st Class membership expire, and I didn't really see a need to renew it at this point. The "extras" that were available were not really something that I found useful.


An MLS email address? I don't need ANOTHER email address to check.


Storage for pictures? Got that on two other sites, for free.


Now I read there are going to be builders logs available for 1st Class members only? So the majority of the membership will be cut away from seeing some of the great things that some 1st Class members work on, only becaue they choose not to spend their money towards the upkeep of this site?


I'm not saying this to be mean, argumentative, and I understand that many will disagree with me, and that's ok. What I would ask is those who are dying to type "well...if you don't like this site, go find another site to post on....etc." please refrain. I have a few other sites that I do post on and those sites include a majority if not all of their content free of charge.


I applaud Shad and the others for putting time and effort into the upgrades of this site, and bringing it forward in technology and aesthetics, etc...Just not sure the wording of the "cause" for improvements was well meant.


Just my $0.0000000002 cents worth, since others have put theirs in here as well. 


Michael


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Now I read there are going to be builders logs available for 1st Class members only? So the majority of the membership will be cut away from seeing some of the great things that some 1st Class members work on, only becaue they choose not to spend their money towards the upkeep of this site?

So far as I know, any member will be able to view the blogs, so no one is being cut away from anything. I believe creating a blog is limited to 1st Class members, tough I'm not sure yet.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Michael, just a few quick counter-points... 

1) Builders logs are viewable by everyone. _Creating_ one is a 1st class perk, but you don't even need to log in to view them. 

2) The old posts are archived and still viewable. They're not going anywhere, and are searchable using the old search engine. You just can't comment on them anymore. All threads eventually get archived and locked, the changeover just accelerated the process for the active ones up to the cut-over. In a year's time this thread will probably be archived and locked. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a deal. 

3) There are numerous "behind-the-scene" changes that really only affect the administration of the site, making it much less of a time-hog. This goes a long way to make sure MLS continues to be here for all of us.  

Later, 

K


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## Michael Tollett (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin,


Thanks for the clarification; then by that I do stand corrected and I publicly apologize for making claims that were not true!! (What I get for not reading the small print thoroughly...you should see some of my modeled structures.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif)


 


Michael


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## hap (Jan 3, 2008)

when i first got onto this new version my password did not work so I  had it sent to me.  It was the original one from when i first started using MLS so I went to My profile and changed it back to what i was using recently then I was able to get into my web space here and got my sig which was still stored in it . I had to use the imaging tags to get it to appear correctly. There is one thing i would like and that is showing who is using the chat room. I still have super speed on this site as long as i keep cleaning out temporary internet files every day just like i had to do before the change. thanks Shad for the improvements /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

It looks like the item I posted on Jim Carter's first dude hear thread might have happened... 


*Something new, for the most part is a bit "uncomfortable."  *


*As the jeans get worn and washed, they fit and are as comfortable as the old ones...    *


*That's a Yogi-ism....   /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif*


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JerryB on 01/03/2008 5:11 PM
Jack, Gary & Any Other Mac Users (Along with Anyone Interesting in Helping): 

Please go there and vote to fix the Mac + Safari platform problems, or they might not ever rise to the top of the barrel! 

Jerry


-----------------------------------------------


I believe that you would need to convice Macintosh to fix their browser..versus fix MLS. 


What Shad was referring to in his post about Safari not providing the capabilities of other modern browsers is correct.  If you are using Safari, you are frequently NOT seeing what others see of a web site using another browser.  IMHO, Safari is a poor choice as a browser because of this.  Mac needs to fix their product.


----------



## MarkLewis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 01/05/2008 12:45 PM


Posted By JerryB on 01/03/2008 5:11 PM
Jack, Gary & Any Other Mac Users (Along with Anyone Interesting in Helping): 

Please go there and vote to fix the Mac + Safari platform problems, or they might not ever rise to the top of the barrel! 

Jerry


-----------------------------------------------


I believe that you would need to convice Macintosh to fix their browser..versus fix MLS. 


What Shad was referring to in his post about Safari not providing the capabilities of other modern browsers is correct.  If you are using Safari, you are frequently NOT seeing what others see of a web site using another browser.  IMHO, Safari is a poor choice as a browser because of this.  Mac needs to fix their product.



 



Baloney! I've been a web developer since the early 1980s. Safari, like Firefox, conforms to web standards> What doesn't conform is Microsoft's Internet Explorer. Not only doesn't it conform to standards, IE uses a great many proprietary codes that screw up standards-conforming products. As a result many sites have to adjust their codes in non-compliant ways to gett them to display properly in IE.


If MLS uses non-standard coding or any of Msoft's proprietary codes, then MLS is not compliant.


That's a big IF and I haven't examined the coding on MLS' pages. I have, however, had no trouble viewing MLS  in ANY of several standards-compliant browsers.


I understand there was a problem with MLS coding that screwed up posting of graphics &/or signatures on January 3. That was most likely the cause of the prolems, not the choice of browser.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

While the above may be true, market share in any thing is what drives things.


While I'm sure that it's not 100% accurate the stats don't show Safari as being all that prevalent.
*W3C
Browser Stats*


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Lotsa new smilies, more options, and a ton of new things to get aquainted with. Great Job Shad!!!!!!! I'm looking forward to getting to know the in's and out's all over again/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


 


For what it's worth..... Ifgetting to know all about the changes that have been made here are the toughest thing any of us have to endure this year.....We should all be so lucky. Just hope we can get our stars back. Took a good amount of effort to make Engineer and unfortunately there's way too much going on in real life to allow me to make another 1400posts anytime soon.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif Not that position/ranking matters/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif it's just that I'm a blasted passenger again with only one post,/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif But I'm sure I'm not the first to mention this./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


----------



## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Michael Tollett on 01/04/2008 4:53 PM


There is one thing I noticed in the Dispatch thread that I for one don't necessarily agree with, but then this isn't MY site to make those kinds of decisions.


It is made very clear in the New and Improved thread, that there are some additions and "plusses" that are only available to 1st Class membership. So in essence it seems that other than the new skin, losing all the "now archived" posts, and an overall purging of past material, the momentum towards the "added improvements" was targeted mainly towards 1st Class members.


I have to say this: I was a 1st Class member for a time. I have since let me 1st Class membership expire, and I didn't really see a need to renew it at this point. The "extras" that were available were not really something that I found useful.


An MLS email address? I don't need ANOTHER email address to check.


Storage for pictures? Got that on two other sites, for free.


Now I read there are going to be builders logs available for 1st Class members only? So the majority of the membership will be cut away from seeing some of the great things that some 1st Class members work on, only becaue they choose not to spend their money towards the upkeep of this site?


I'm not saying this to be mean, argumentative, and I understand that many will disagree with me, and that's ok. What I would ask is those who are dying to type "well...if you don't like this site, go find another site to post on....etc." please refrain. I have a few other sites that I do post on and those sites include a majority if not all of their content free of charge.


I applaud Shad and the others for putting time and effort into the upgrades of this site, and bringing it forward in technology and aesthetics, etc...Just not sure the wording of the "cause" for improvements was well meant.


Just my $0.0000000002 cents worth, since others have put theirs in here as well. 


Michael



Michael,


The reasons for the upgrade were numerous.  But here's the thing..  You complain that the upgrade had a lot of pluses for 1st class members only.  Then you go on to mention that you didn't renew before because you didn't find the benefits that useful.  A big reason for the upgrade was that I recognized the need to add value to the 1st class membership so people like you would find it worth their money and renew after their first year.  I recognize that the warm fuzzies some people get knowing they help me pay the bills isn't enough..  Adding value with the old system was very difficult to do.  I was at a crossroads so to speak.   I've had a good number of people tell me that I should charge for even the forums.  I'm not going to do that, I promised when I started the site that the forums would stay free forever, and I intend to keep that promise.  So, how do I add value to the 1st class membership?  By adding other features into the forum, and providing other content to 1st class members only while still keeping my word.  This new system allows me to do both things easily, something that I could not do with the old system.  There are a lot more cool features that are coming down the pipe that only 1st class members will get, and why shouldn't they?  They help financially support the site.


In reality,  the largest benefactor of the upgrade is me..  Yes, it was a little selfish.  With this new content system, I'll be able to publish new content, manage user accounts, and do all the day to day management of the site in less time, with more features.  I can more easily delegate responsibilities to others as needed.  I expect things to go a lot more smoothly from now on.


As others have pointed out, reading the builder's logs is free, but only 1st class members can create them.


----------



## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By MarkLewis on 01/05/2008 4:14 PM


Baloney! I've been a web developer since the early 1980s. Safari, like Firefox, conforms to web standards> What doesn't conform is Microsoft's Internet Explorer. Not only doesn't it conform to standards, IE uses a great many proprietary codes that screw up standards-conforming products. As a result many sites have to adjust their codes in non-compliant ways to gett them to display properly in IE.


If MLS uses non-standard coding or any of Msoft's proprietary codes, then MLS is not compliant.


That's a big IF and I haven't examined the coding on MLS' pages. I have, however, had no trouble viewing MLS  in ANY of several standards-compliant browsers.


I understand there was a problem with MLS coding that screwed up posting of graphics &/or signatures on January 3. That was most likely the cause of the prolems, not the choice of browser.



Um..  If Safari, like Firefox, followed all the standards, why do things work fine in firefox and not in Safari?  Your argument fails to hold water Mark.  I'm not here to debate which browser is better etc, but I'm just saying that Safari is notorious for not working on websites where every other browser works just fine.  I deal with web developers every day and hear stories frequently.  About 4% of the visits to MLS are using safari.  It's a little higher than the internet average, but not a really big number.  I've got the issues on my list, but there are a lot more issues that need more immediate attention.  The users of safari can download firefox for free and have immediate releif to their woes.  For me to fix it, it could take months of research and work.  From what I gather, a large part of the problems are linked to the text editor, and I will be upgrading the editor sometime in the next month or two, perhaps some of the problems will be resolved then.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Shad, i just want to say thanks. I like the site. True i have to find my way around again, but i had to find my around when i first joined. The site holds waaay more potential. I kinda like the fact that the old posts are gone I got tired if sifting through them to find new content, but the search works good so if i need to find something it's there. 
Thanks again


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By MarkLewis on 01/05/2008 4:14 PM


......I understand there was a problem with MLS coding that screwed up posting of graphics &/or signatures on January 3. That was most likely the cause of the prolems, not the choice of browser.


-------------------------------


Mark....I wasn't trying to start an argument....I was just pointing out that in some cases Safari does NOT display stuff that other browser's display.  I mean DOES NOT DISPLAY....versus display differently.  The problem with the compliance standard, as you point out, is that is sets a floor...not a roof...in capability.  


In my career in the Navy, we had lotsa cases where pretty complicated graphics (maps mostly with overlays) on web based C4I systems showed up differently on different browser platforms...even though what was being served didn't violate the web coding standards.  There's no way those maps should have showed different data sets...and after the Chinese Embassy debacle way back when, certifying that everyone sees the same thing became a requirement.  The solution was to "officially" prohibit certain browsers from being used...and implementing code so the server could sense the kind of browser being used.


I'm not a web designer, and like I said, I'm not trying to start an argument, but users of Macs need to understand that they "may" not be seeing all that is available from a web site based on my (several years ago) experience with Safari in the Navy systems.  And yes, perhaps MS is pushing the envelop too hard.  I'm not defending anyone here...just trying to illuminate.


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## baron67 (Jan 5, 2008)

What happened to the printer friendly icon?  I used it frequently to print/edit forum items.


 


Jerry Barnes


Plano, TX


/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

This Jerry Barnes misses the little yellow picture posting icon. Jerry


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

Shad, Mike, All: 

First of all, the failure to post a message on MLS is not limited to Safari. Using the latest version (2.0.0.11) of Firefox, I wrote a detailed reply to an item in the "Tools" forum yesterday afternoon, pushed the "Submit" button and it just disappeared. This is exactly the same behavior I was experiencing using Safari. It just doesn't seem to happen as often. No, I didn't put it on the "Feedback" page as there are now ~50 open items with only 1 "Resolved". That looks to me like a convenient way of pigeon holing stuff with an ". . . Its in work . . " refrain. I've also found that asking to see beyond the first page of "Feedback" results in an error: "Server Error in '/' Application". This error shows up in Safari, Firefox and IE, so certainly is not the fault of Safari. 

Second, when trouble shooting my original problems with both text handling and replying / editing / posting using Safari to access the new MLS, we tried Opera on a PC as well as IE, Safari and Firefox. Although the results were different from browser to browser, only the latest version of IE on a PC seemed to solve or at least not exhibit most of the problems. This is to be expected when using SW that has been developed on a PC by MS fluent developers, but that platform doesn't define the internet. 

I guess the next post here will tell me I need to use IE as all other web browsers are defective. I just don't buy that and it really doesn't matter as the version (5.2.2) of IE I have is the latest available for the Mac. The message on the Microsoft site actually reads: 

". . . as of January 31st, 2006, Internet Explorer for the Mac is no longer available for download from Microsoft. It is recommended that Macintosh users migrate to more recent web browsing technologies such as Apple's Safari." Even Microsoft recommends Safari!! 

And the reason I don't use my version 5.2.2 IE is because of other incompatibilities with sites I commonly use. 

The thing I find most interesting is that Safari works just fine on all the other sites I visit, including the previous MLS. I look at many hundreds of sites / month, most of them new to me. In my job as a researcher, I frequently download all manner of files and provide links to other technical personnel. You are seriously out of touch if you believe for a second that I'm not seeing what is on those sites. 

The current problem is not a matter of not seeing something. It is a matter of what we (my SW engineer and I) believe are JavaScript handling errors and are specific to the new MLS software package. At least that is the indication we get from trying a PC+Opera platform. We also believe it can / will be resolved, but it takes some time to get it done. I fully understand that with the Mac+Safari platform only constituting ~4% of MLS users that there are other more urgent matters demanding the developer's and Shad's time. I will wait in line, but absolutely do not accept the premise that Safari is the problem. I also believe in helping myself, so have downloaded the newest version of Firefox and have found that it is significantly better on MLS, appearing to not experience most of the problems I previously reported, with the above noted exceptions. 

The attitude ". . . of course you are experiencing problems because your browser is defective" doesn't go over here. Mike, I'm sorry you had problems with Safari in the Navy, but I'm reasonably certain it was a very early version. Safari, like all other browsers has come a long way, plus I don't see that response on any other site I either visit or post on. 

And lastly, I am in the high technology business where there is always a new requirement, new version, new problem, new solution. When a customer calls with a problem, I don't start by attacking what he ate for breakfast!! 

I wish those smiley faces were available here on Quick Reply, as I don't want this to be taken as a mad rant, but rather (hopefully) as a constructive discussion. 

Happy RRing, 

Jerry


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Whoah, wait a minute.  You never mentioned that this was the quick reply you're using.  (Of course I never asked either.)  I guess you haven't read the other threads where they're talking about quick replies not working.  I'm looking into the problem and am trying to decide what to do.


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

Shad: 

Sorry. I did think I had made this clear in some of the previous posts, but perhaps not. My bad. Yes, I have read the other threads about this and in fact posted to one. And I do know you are working on it. My comment above was only to illustrate that Safari is not the only browser that is seeing some problems. 

"Quick Reply" actually worked some (or perhaps most) of the time with Safari. Using Firefox, I have only had one instance where a "Quick Reply" post disappeared, so don't feel comfortable with declaring a 'bug'. 

I'm certain this will all get straightened out in time. The learning curve extends to all corners of the box. I'm really more interested in model trains than computers and software. I get enough of that in my day job! 

I am going to MacWorld S.F. next week and will bring some of these questions up with the Safari developers. I know they won't be able to offer definitive solutions, but at least they should be able to tell me if I am expecting too much of their SW. 

Thanks again for all you efforts & Happy RRing, 

Jerry


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## Jim Kelly (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the new look...lot of work but nice job.


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