# Electrical schematics for LGB 2015D



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

I have been collecting LGBs since 1979..however, have never found a good source for electrical schematics. I have an LGB 2015D with powered tender. The smoke unit has never worked, to the best of my knowledge. After having discussions with Stan Cederleaf in Dewey, Arizona, I decided to see if anyone has found any good service manuals with the electrical schematics? I did manage to take the engine apart and finally dis-assembled the smoke stack. I believe replacements are sold with the stack already epoxy glued together to provide a "leak proof" reservior for the smoke oil. Putting the smoke unit (bare shaft) on a test bench and using two 9volt batteries in series (little less than 18 volts), the unit came to life...so it works. Now I know that these are supposed to smoke at 5 volts...but my Marklin HO trains do better than that..so, the higher voltage must be required? It appears that the LGB electrical feed for the stack is a black box resister or capacitor of some type. Marked with 30v... The engine and the lights work fine...so, I'm wondering if something else is wrong or not functioning properly? This particular engine was purchased in 1985. Thanks...anyone.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB had 3 different smoke units voltage wise for the engines that were wired and removable from the top. 
5 volt units have white/black wires These engines also had 5 volt bulbs (bulbs have a flat top) 
18 volt units have yellow/brown wires The lights were yellow and screwed into sockets 
24 volt units have 2 white wires. These are for conversions to MTS (or DCC) for conversions. 

The stacks that screw in with a nut on the bottom of the engine (2010/2020/2015) are older versions which were always 18 volts and ran directly from track power. 

There are PDF diagrams for many LGB engines/cars buit only wiring diagrams, no schematics. Do a google search for... lgb 2015 pdf


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks for the information...very helpful. I guess I should have realized it when the 9 volt battery didn't do anything until I connected it to a Titan transformer and it had various voltage options...16 volts started to get it going. Now I can tackle this electrical problem from a different direction and maybe able to get it working properly. This probably is the same problem with my 2073 engine...I will also looking into the schematics for the electrical layout of the engines.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

the stack shaft makes contact with a copper flex piece in the body-wired to the motor block pick up (brown)-typically you can see it next to the metal weight as the stack enters the body 
this copper strip hits the large stack metal shaft

the bottom of the stack has a small center contact point - 


under the loco , below the bottom of the stack, 
there is a small 'arm' which pivots on screw to make or break contact with the center point i described (the center is tiny and brass as i recall-the arm is steel with an eyelit for the screw) 
-typically there is a small wire, yellow, from the block which loops around this screw -on 2015 theres a small groove for the wire in the motor block to allow it not to be crushed when the body is fitted-


they can be a bit touchy as the stack get older -it seems that the center recedes sometimes 
while tightening the stack into the bottom screw assembly helps, it must be done carfeully, or youll essentially pull the stack shaft down too much, and you can loosene the seal which creates the reservoir
-know this first hand- idon tknwo if it is expoxied-but there is a tight fit -and its never the same if you pull the shaft down via the nut (the nut acts like a gear puller against the metal shaft , while the plastic portion sits against the body)


they are very very simple-they also take a fair amount of juice to get smoking abundantly- 
your 2015 will be flying! 

i have 5, and this is how it is 

once you get it working again, 
i have had success in simply leaving it the on position, 
as
i use smoke, 
and i tend to run around 5-7 volts
so at slower speeds there is less chance of burn out, even if dry (which i generally dont allow)
also while these units seem to take a huge amount of smoke, dont overfill-they work best with maybe about 10-15 drops max

you didnt ask, but ill tell you, do NOT mess with the center heater element-they are very delicate and very brittle-if you crush the outside tube , or break the inner center element-the smoker is finished-
only mess when your properly connected and youre sure its dead-know this too first hand

how do the elements work? as far as ive been able to determine from autopsy, theres a tiny slit at the base of the center element tube, which allows smoke from the pool into the tiny tube-the heater super heats the oil in the tube and it erupts out the top-thats all there is to it-this is the same with the separate elements as well

once the unit leaks, ie the epoxy breaks in these separate units (which yours doesnt use btw) , i have yet to have any success re-epoxying or otherwise getting a good seal-FWIW


also 
when those inner heater elements glow red, typcially the 5v versions, they are on the way out....or theres an issue with the current limiter-i know this too first hand
but...in this condition they smoke profusely and gloriously for a while-a few of mine have made it a year or more before complete failure-NOT recommended 

i would NOT recommend putting in a 5 v (if you could or wish to re-engineer the one piece stack-OY--without some sort of resistor (which will get very hot BTW) 
even before LGB went under and was resurrected by MARKLIN, the smoke units are rather pricey to simply blow out with the wrong voltage
and , running at 5-6 volts max, is , if youre like me, unlikely to be acheivable-ther will be some occassion you decide youre in a hurry


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Interesting. I was wondering where the "grounding" or negative contact was for the smoke unit. I will have to look more closely. The lead block inside the boiler appears to be fairly loose and can be rotated without much effort. It is drilled for the stack to fit through, but without a real positive hold, I'm wondering if this smoke unit wasn't working previously because the circuit wasn't completed? I may try to reassemble the engine with the cab removed and attempt to see if I can figure out why it isn't "smoking", unless it is in the test bench configuration. Will let you know what I discover.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

It is unlikely there is anything wrong other than what i have mentioned-ie the bottom contact in the smoke shaft. 

From my experience, unless someone has "improved" the loco, ie monkeyed with it, these simply dont have problems, they are built solidly and generally everything like wires etc, stays put. 

I dont think that reassembling without the cab is going to help one jot, imho. 

Snce the unit works-it must be contact.

Try to determine if the other 2 contact points are making proper contact. 

Typically the copper strip within the weight block works fine. It is, as i mentioned, typically the contact arm and the center contact that isnt making proper connection. 

What i thiink may have happened is your stack was overtightened at some point, ie simply screwing it down into the retaining nut on the bottom of the loco.
This is done by simply rotating the stack by hand clockwise.

As i mentioned doing this too much acts like a vice and draws the smoke unit (and the center contact)upward into the stack shaft, and as a result the tiny little center contact has less prtrusion and is less likely to contact the little swinging contact arm. 

The other thing you can do, is to hook up the pick up shoes to the power, and then, test the voltage to the 2 smoke unit wires -ie the brown and yellow-one on the copper strip and the one going to the swinging arm-that should tell you all you need to know. Im 99% certain this isnt the issue. 

Id be willing to bet that it is nothing more than the arm not making contact with the center point. Often it looks like there is contact but there isnt in fact. 

FWIW, you should be able to tell if the smoke unit (B&Y) wires are connected to the motor block-you need not disassemble the block.


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