# Help me rip the guts out of my Dash 9



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

My Dash 9 has a vibration at the front end of the loco.









It sounds like the cab is not secure but might be from the brick.

So I have it sitting on a large towel waiting to be dis-embowled.

I've checked Greg's site but found no details regarding the removal of the body and Aristo Craft's site wasn't much help.

So I need to know what screws need to be removed to remove the body from the frame?

Do the fuel tanks need to be removed?

Are there screws hidden under the trucks?

is it 12 screws that need to be removed?

Once apart, can I remove the trucks from the frame and run each one independant of the other?


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

It's prototypical. All GE locomotives begin to fall apart the minute they leave the factory. By 5 years they rattle and squeak terribly, and by 10 years parts are beginning to fall off.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

On the Dash nine you don't have to remove the tanks. They screw to the base, and only hold the weights. I would guess from all other locos, you have about a dozen screws to take out to remove the cab. The vibration is not just in the trucks/engine block is it? The motor blocks can be removed with just four screws on each truck. 
Good luck.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

First I would drop the motor block out of the front, then bench test the loco and so see if you can locate in the shell or motor. 
They are easy to take apart, just line the screws up on each end as you take it apart. I can't remember all the details. Remove the tank just to make it easier. 
I'm wonder it the metal plat that runs through it has come loose. 
sorry no pictures.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

ok, I pulled the trucks off and set one on the track expecting it to run. 

But ater putting power to the rails, the brick never moved. 

I tried the other brick and the same result. 

So it looks like I really need the rollers to set the brick on to test and that I don't have. 

As for removing the body, the gas tank does have to be removed. 

The weight it self is held in place by one screw. 

So back to removing the body so I can run the chassis


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Randy, 

The motor blocks won't run without jumping the connectors on the end of the blocks. One terminal is for power the latter is to the motor, you have to jump each pair on either side of the block. 

Michael


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I have 14 screws out along the body line and the back of the body is loose up past the weight but the cab is still tight. 

There must be hidden screws or the body snaps into place on the frame. 

I need someone who remembers what they had to do to get the body off the frame 

Anybody?


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Explosives. I usually suggest explosives. 

Sometimes the dash 9 cab gets stuck on with paint. I don't remember any hidden screws. This steam nut did once have a Dash 9 apart, without explosives.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Torby 

Guess I need to try a little prying.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Alright I got the body off. 

No hidden screws, just very tight as the interior of the cab does not come off with the body 

now my next question, Can I unhook the wires between the body and the chassis and still be able to run the chassis?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

You ask for things that I have not needed to try before. sorry. If I remember right the plugs that go to the body is for body lights smokers etc. I "think" it will still run. 
I mess with them so much in diffeent ways I have never logged the step by step info. 
Just bring it on over, I will drop what I'm doing and help you.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ha, wish I could. You're just a little too far for a quick trip.

Maybe someday.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Randy, maybe you can tell us what you are trying to accomplish. If you are going battery power, it's not necessary to rip everything apart. 

Are you going battery? Do you mind replacing any bulbs with LEDs and adding dropping resistors? 

You can do what you want, but I would not rip out it's guts as though it was a battle of wills, unless it really is ha ha! 

There should be 4 wires coming up from each truck. 2 wires are motor, 2 wires are track pickups. I believe there is a circuit board in the chassis that these 8 wires from the 2 trucks go to. So yes, it can be made to run separating the chassis from the body, but it will not run with no mods, since the pickups are connected to the motors at the socket. If the socket is separated from the trucks, it won't run. 

Hope that answers a few questions. 

Post a couple of pictures and we can point out the wires in the pictures. 

Regards, Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg 

Read my first post in this thread. 

I'm trying to find the source of a vibration or light buzzing sound. It seems to come from the cab area.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, it has been unclear to me since I first read the thread: 

The title says to "help me rip the guts out of my dash 9"... that implies a destructive removal. 

The first line in the first post says you have a vibration.. 

I could never see what tearing out (destructively) the insides of a loco has to do with a vibration, since you proceed on like you are doing a battery conversion.. 

Thanks for making it clear... 

1. Take off the blocks, jumper them so they each run by themselves... (vibration almost certainly from these) 

2. if they sound fine, put on chassis, and jumper the board on the chassis to run 

Those are first. 

Greg


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By DKRickman on 02 Jul 2011 05:20 PM 
It's prototypical. All GE locomotives begin to fall apart the minute they leave the factory. By 5 years they rattle and squeak terribly, and by 10 years parts are beginning to fall off. 

 
My engineer friend who runs them in Hialeah yard says: Whats the last two letters in Garbage?


garba"GE" lololol


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Randy if you disconnect the wires from the chassis the loco will not run. You either need to just take the motor connect to leads only to the motor contacts which are the short metsal strips, one on teach side of the brick, hold up in the air and apply the power. You should be able see any wobble of the wheels. Also since you have the unit apart check the long metal weight that is screwed to the floor and check to see if it is loose. Later RJD


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

The video at the below link demonstrates the operation of Aristo's 3 axle and 2 axle motor blocks using jumpers. 
The operational demo starts about 2 minutes into the video. These blocks are the ones that Aristo equipped with Stainless wheels, but that is not relevant to how to jumper and test them. 

*Aristo Stainless Steel Wheels sold packaged with 2 & 3 axle motor blocks*

-Ted 


http://www.youtube.com/v/O-mVqrB8f3I?version=3&hl=en_US


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice video Ted 

Thanks


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

OK 

After tearing the body off the Dash 9 and checking the body and frame for vibration noise, tonite, my sone said, why not switch the motor blocks and see if the vibration noise is still on the cab end. Not sure why I didn't think of that. So I switch the blocks and low and behold, the noise moved to the rear. It's in the motor block. 

So, I need to hear from someone who has had the 3 axle motor block apart. 

I don't want to pull the lid off and get surprised by springs flying.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Randy just jump in and "tear" that top right off. 
If I remember right there is no springs just unscrew them carefully. Once all 6 or 8 are loose get down on your knees and with two hands start to lift the cover off and duck your head down. Then you'll wake up and realize the bad part was all a dream. 

Randy Brother. 
we've all done this without any help. If I really thought you could not do this ,I or someone else would have said send it in to be safe. 
The first time I took one apart was when I saw a photo from someone on here with the axles out of the gear box. which in turn showed me what it looked like. 
Have you gone to Aristo to see if they have a blown up drawing of it? 
do like Ted said 
get some clips and jump them to run them on track power or I have made a plug that hooks into my battery car and alegator clips on other end to test stuff with. 
I don't even own a power pack. 

NO wait, Thomas sets have them. (did not what Greg to get me on that one) so I do have some.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Randy, note that Marty was the first guy to tell you to check the motor blocks. 

Anyway, one that that can cause noise is that the motors are not aligned well in the blocks, and so the misalignment between the hex shafts on the motoros and the hex recesses on the gearboxes will make noise, especially on newer ones where these two parts are metal (early hex drives on the motors were nylon, quieter, but did not last). 

One technique is to open the block, press the motor towards the bottom of the block, and hit each motor lead with a soldering iron to further seat the motor. This often works. Another technique is what Ron Wenger used to do, is to revert the system back to the way it was originally designed, where there was no solder between the motor "tabs" and the "forks" in the motor block. 

This allowed the motor to sort of self align, which was good, but the motor rocks back and forth when changing direction, and loosens the forks and the electrical contact eventually gets bad and the loco runs poorly (thus the current production method of soldering the motor tabs to the forks). 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Randy,

The two pictures below show the first generation Aristo 3 axle motor block disassembled. 











In the below picture, you can see the "forks" that engage the motor electrical contacts (having no solder) and the pads that keep the center axle rigid in this first generation motor block.











The below picture shows an example second generation 3 axle motor block. Note the "U" slots were added for solder access to the forks and motor contacts.

In this case, it looks like it's better to first pull the wheels off the center axle to gain good access. 











Pads placed for the motors were added in the lid in this second generation 3 axle motor block. BTW, there are 8 total screws that hold the lid on (2 each side & 2 each end).











Note the second generation motor block includes peg and arrow so it only fits in one direction when put in the truck's "A" frame. 











The electrical contacts for wheel pickups and motor supply is shown below. The left side of the motor block (not identified with post-it) is like the right side.










When you put the motor block back into the "A" frame, make sure the contacts stick up some. They are often flatten down with factory installation!




















I hope this helps;

-Ted


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted, the pics and info is great 

thank you


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Randy,

To get good access to soldered forks, the center axle wheels can be removed. 
Described below are some pointers and cautions when removing the wheels. 

I have an Aristo Dash-9 and E8s that have factory applied red Loctite to the screws that hold the wheels to the axles! Why Aristo decided to do this is puzzling - maybe owing to phasing problems with steam engine models. Anyway, these can be very difficult to remove with high risk of rounding out the screw head.

Valve lapping compound can be used to help remove the little M3 screws that retain the wheels by putting some on the screw driver tip. This gives good grip to the screw driver tip.











Once you get the screw loose, it's important to use a wheel puller to remove the wheel from the axle.
Do not attempt to pry wheels away from the motor block as you will certainly damage the gear box half shaft retaining mechanism. 

I used a Craftsman battery terminal puller as shown in the example below. This worked very well - though it requires the wheel retaining screw be left in place but backed out some for the puller to work against. Once the wheel is snapped free from the tapered shaft, completely remove the screw so the wheel comes out. 










-Ted


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

well, I took the lid off the brick tonite. 

Put a straigh edge accross the top of the gear boxes and they seem pretty much in line. 

Eyeballing the two motors, they looked to be inline with each other. 

I pressed down on them and they didn't budge. 

so I'm at a loss as to what might be wrong. 

Also of note, the brick has 1 fixed axle while the center and one end axles can swivel.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11 Jul 2011 08:01 PM 
Randy, note that Marty was the first guy to tell you to check the motor blocks. 

Anyway, one that that can cause noise is that the motors are not aligned well in the blocks, and so the misalignment between the hex shafts on the motoros and the hex recesses on the gearboxes will make noise, especially on newer ones where these two parts are metal (early hex drives on the motors were nylon, quieter, but did not last). 

One technique is to open the block, press the motor towards the bottom of the block, and hit each motor lead with a soldering iron to further seat the motor.[/b] This often works. Another technique is what Ron Wenger used to do, is to revert the system back to the way it was originally designed, where there was no solder between the motor "tabs" and the "forks" in the motor block. 

This allowed the motor to sort of self align, which was good, but the motor rocks back and forth when changing direction, and loosens the forks and the electrical contact eventually gets bad and the loco runs poorly (thus the current production method of soldering the motor tabs to the forks). 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Randy, 

In spite of your observations of straightness, I think Greg E. believes the soldering whilst pushing technique should be done. 

As to, "Also of note, the brick has 1 fixed axle while the center and one end axles can swivel." This is the typical current practice where Aristo desires that the "fixed" axle face the pilot end of the loco; hence, the peg and arrow on the newer generation motor blocks helps assure you can't install the motor block backwards. 

-Ted


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Also a word of caution when removing wheel with lock tight. The screw head can also break off. I preheat the screw with a pen torch and that seem to work very well. Even heating the motor leads that are soldered is no guarantee that you will eliminate the noise. At least in my case it has not. Later RJD


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

This is why I am hesident to tear into the brick any further.

In doing so I'm taking the chance of messing something up to where it doesn't run at all andlikely not get it to run quietly in the long run.

Without a set of those test stands where you set the brick on it and run it in place, I would be forever messing with it.

Guess it's time to call Navin. Is it better to call him or email him?


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Randy, 

Good idea to call Navin. 
Aristo has stood behind their products. 

-Ted


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I emailed Navin and got an email back that they were on vacation. The email said to go ahead and send items in for repair so that is what I will do. 

I jumpered the contacts and rand the brick. 

You can definently hear the gear whine. 

So I'll ship it off to Aristo Craft on Monday and we'll see how long they take to fix it and send it back. 

The wheels look like new, so maybe they will fix it under warranty.


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