# Bachmann 1:20.3 Forney , your thoughts ?



## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hello:

Any current thoughts on the Bachmann 1:20.3 Forney?
Is the model selling at the current price?
Accucracy of the model ?
Is anyone kitbashing the model into a railroad specific prototype ?

Thank you

Norman


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

great looking model, but oh, expensive! Way too rich for my blood.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe there were a number of threads on this loco, here and on other forums. I'd read all of those for questions 1 and 3. 

The answer to question 2 has to be yes, the selling price is the current price by definition! 

Have not seen any bashes yet. 

Regards, Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope to someday do this with the forney: 

http://gold.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/On2-SRRL9/index.html 

Convert it into a model of SR&RL #9, probably with a scratch built cab and other details, 
Although I probably wont attempt to re-gauge it..although maybe I would.. 

Acuracy is excellent.. 
Bachmann claims it is not a model of a specific prototype, they call it a "Baldwin Catalog Engine" (they say this easily de-fuse the gauge question.. 
if its not a model of a real prototype, reasons Bachmann, then no one can debate that its the "wrong gauge") 

but apart from that whole issue, it has been very well documented that its a very close 
model of SR&RL #8 (inside frame) and SR&RL #9 (outside frame) 
quite accurate in all respects, except gauge. 

Im hoping that in 5-10 years I can pick one up for $300.. 
which is the usual pattern with all Bachmann engines.. 
until that happens, I wont be buying one. 

Scot


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

One problem witht the model is that the cylinders set too high to the drivers. This may have been caused by the need for extra space to cram all of the electronics inside thus requiring the mis-alignment of the drivetrain! Considering that the price for one is currently that of a K-27, I won't be buying it anytime soon...unfortunately! They _are_ gorgeous models!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

According to Bachmann, they added 6" (scale) to the width of the locomotive to offset the increased gauge, but other than that, it's modeled after the prototypes Scott mentions. I was also told the cylinders are elevated so they clear switch machines and other things that might go "bump." (Probably not so much the cylinders themselves, but the drain cocks underneath them.) Quite frankly, I'm not sure it's really as objectionable "in the flesh" as we make it out to be on paper (or LCD pixels). The cylinders on their 4-4-0 are similarly elevated above the driver centerline (if not more so): 



















I haven't heard much criticism of the 4-4-0 for that by its owners, and certainly I don't notice it when its running on the railroad. And it _may_ be prototypical for that particular 4-4-0, though others built at the same time have cylinders in line with the driver centers. (Technically, they're all specified an inch or two above the driver centerline to compensate for the deflection of the springs due to the weight of the locomotive.) 

Is the locomotive actually _selling_ at the going price? That's a question for the retailers. I haven't heard a lot of chatter from owners, but that's not really all that unusual when you look at past releases. If I were doing Maine 2 footers, I'd be tempted. Since I already have a 3' gauge Forney (modeled after a true 3' gauge prototype), I'm in no hurry to get one. It doesn't really fit my operations. Of course, I've got two kids in day care, so I'd be hard pressed to justify $700 for _any_ locomotive at this point. 

I do think they did a great job on it. I've always loved the Maine 2-footers (since before I started modeling the EBT), and I can definitely see one of these gracing my shelf at some point down the road. 

Later, 

K


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, it IS bloody gorgeous! When I was first blindsided by the two prototypes at the NGRC last year in Denver I couldn't wait to own one but that price is a killer! I could justify up to about $400 but $700? Sorry, no. I'll wait and see what the price does after a few years. Oh, I'll eventally get one! It's just a question of when...


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## slimgauge (Jan 3, 2008)

I've got one, but circumstances have prevented me from doing more than taking it out of the box (once) so far.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Buy them while they are cheap, Steve. 

Here in yUK they were on 'special' at two dealers at the show a coupla weeks ago at just under $1200.00. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ummm............as much as it pains me, if the price were to start going_ up _I would, regretfully, have to pass! Besides, I may be saving my money for another engine (a K-28 perhaps?







)


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

When the prices of everything start going up, which they will, the Large Scale model train business is going to suffer greatly.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I dont know.. 
history has shown that all Bachmann engines start expensive and then the prices gradually drop.. 
why would that change now? 

I bought a Connie for $225 a few months ago..I think it was $400 when it was released. 
I bought a Spectrum Mogul for $250 recently..they were also over $400 5-10 years ago.. 

yes, "prices go up" on just above everything.. 
but they always have..I think we have had endless inflation for 200 years or so.. 
and yet the price of Bachmann engines always goes down, not up.
why would that suddenly change now? 
nothing is different.. 

Scot


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

They are down to $529 at Ridge Road


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, 
Worth you looking into - the Baldwin NG 4-4-0s, including the 8-18-C , drawing 4 prototypically had cylinders above cylinder centreline, mostly to allow the truck to clear below. The cylinders however were on a slight cant, like 1.5 deg or so. But they were not cylinders bolted to the frame on an angle, rather, the whole frame on these 4-4-0s from the front of the lead driver to the pilot is on an incline. Even the pilot deck on these were not level, but angled down toward the smokebox. Its not always obvious, but thats how these engines were designed. The Bachmann 4-4-0 cylinder height isn't far off what it should be, but the cant isn't there. As for the 2-4-4T, its way off in that regard. 

David.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Last year I bought TWO Bachmann Spectrum three-truck Shays [overstock] for $600. I gave one to my pal Broos, here in yUK, and kept the other one - both are perfect in every way. I also paid $275.00 for my Connie - a second-hand one over here in yUK easily fetches $350-400. 

The Forney is priced like a live-steamer - ridiculously high priced by comparison with the K27 - in fact, it was more expensive than a green-boilered K27 on the same dealer stand at a recent show. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## samevans (Jan 3, 2008)

As a dyed in the wool Maine 2 footer fan I will not be buying a Forney because: 
1) It is the wrong gauge. Had Bachman made it regaugeable I might have considered it and ignored the 6 scale ins overwidth. 
2) The cylinder error is to my eyes rather off putting. 
3) I am not paying premium prices for a model , however lovely, that disses the prototype so much. I also do not want/need the electronics. 

Now here's an Idea. Why not sell a model without the 'bells and whistles' but sell a module with it all on that can be purchased as an add on for those who want it? 

Sam E http://www.mylargescale.com/desktopmodules/activeforums/themes/MLS/save32.png


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Fletch, I've seen photos of locos with the inclined front pilots. Definitely goes against one's sense of prototypical accuracy when you see that. It always makes me wonder how big the cow was that the engineer hit.  

Later, 

K


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, The incline is only 1.5 deg or so on these 4-4-0s, but its amazing how noticeable it is. Back to the cylinders, since the Eureka is an actual running example, it is pretty interesting seeing the main rod angle upward only a little when the cranks are at wheel top, while when the cranks are wheel bottom, the main rod angles downward a great deal - cylinders well above wheel centreline - but the actual piston line is angled to drive wheel centre. I came across this issue when building my 18C in 1:24 scale way back in 1998. Now days I have a large collection of erection cards for this type of 4-4-0 and others, the frame drawing is pretty interesting! with the whole front end bent upward is curious but normal for this 4-4-0 and many other NG Baldwin 4-4-0s, including the ones built for Auz. The T-12 D&RG 4-6-0s had the same thing, with angled cylinders above wheel centre line. A lot of model companies miss this detail, and get the front end wrong...Bachmann got it right, but not quite the intent. Their 4-4-0 is a very good model. 

Sometime I'll probably get the new Forney, I agree the cost is rediculous, considering a lot of the spectrum detail and accuracy aint there, no working valve gear, poor cab interior detail etc. The cab interior is a fizzell of spare parts from other models, and make little operational sense. When the price drops to around $300, what they're worth, I'll buy one and drop the cylinders down to wheel centre, lower the whole superstructure down by about 1/4" and then she'll start to look right. Also before anyone comes up with builder's photos showing these types of engines with piston just above wheel centre, take note that these engines were usually photographed with empty boilers in the biuilder's photos. When filled, the engines would hunker down with springs set for piston at centreline. I agree wholly that they should make the super socket an optional extra to be purchased aftermarket. It is adding cost to this engine that possibly 90% of modellers ( I dont know the figure) dont need. I sure dont need it, and dont want to pay for what I will rip out. 

Interesting discussion chaps, I hope the Forney lesson to Bachmann is not one that causes them to believe 1:20.3 is not a worthy scale to invest further in. Afterall, like the K-27, the Forney was probably the only other engine that was consistently asked for. Like the K-27, Bachmann finally listenned, and gave the market what was asked for - yet it has not yet paid off, not a good message. 
Its not that the Forney is a bad model, it has some issues that I'm sure can be made right after market, its just that its a neat $300 model. 

David.


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## Al Sauer (Jan 3, 2008)

I just read the review in GR, and unfortunately, it did not mention the one item that I had been waiting to hear - how much of a load can the new forney pull? I have some pretty stiff grades (4% plus), and would like to know how much a forney can pull before I buy one. Can anyone who has purchased a forney (or reviewed one) provide any info on this? 

Thanks 

Al


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