# Heavy duty track



## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

Can anyone here tell me something about the track in this picture? Seems very overbuilt.
The girl in the nightgown is Elke Sommer, but that track has bugged me for years.
Elke ( A European Model!)


Harvey C.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

track? what track?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dude, we know who Elke Sommer is.... she can hold my loco any time (well, that's what's in the picture!). 

If this track has been bugging you from this picture, I think you have bad priorities !!!!! ha ha ha 

Yes, the track does look like it has more anchors than normal... maybe heavy traffic on that line... 

OK, back to Elke !!! 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice track work indeed!


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bruce Chandler on 15 Aug 2009 07:58 PM 
track? what track? 

Ditto! What track? What picture??? More importantly, where's Elke?????









-Brian


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)




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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Biran, the word Elke in the first post is a link.. you can see it's a slightly different color... 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

AWWWWWWWWWWW YOU [email protected]!! yer way off base. Looked like that once, but she's old enough to be all yer mother's now. You do know people age right???? hah LOL


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## dltrains (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't look like she's gotten a day older in that pic to me


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greggers. All that text looks plain black on my 'puter. 

Woof! 


-Brian


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Somebody's gotta have an explanation as to why she is holding a toy train engine... yeah, yeah, yeah... I didn't notice it either until I accidently had the window scrolled down such that most of the photo was off the bottom of the screen and only her hand was visible. I assume it was from a movie she was in.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles,

Maybe it is a new LGB advertising campaign. The caption is missing, but it probably says " look, I've found an LGB loco"


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I think the photo was used in a dream theme layout in Playboy. 
But I still would like to know what runs on track like that. 

Harvey C.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

All that text looks plain black on my 'puter 

_I've been fooled a couple of times by links that look like text. I put 'bold' (b) .. (/b) only with square brackets around my links to make them pop out._ 

To get back to the question of the track, it looks like ordinary flat-bottom rail spiked to flat tie plates. Between the ties, adding to the confusion, are big black 3/4 rings clamped or welded to the rail base. Common practice in the UK, and maybe in the rest of europe - my understanding is that they are used at places where trains have to brake, and they prevent the rail from creeping in the spikes from the brake effect. Them trains are running 125 mph, remember.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By hcampbell on 17 Aug 2009 06:34 AM 

But I still would like to know what runs on track like that. 

Harvey C.



Probably nothing.

The more I look at the picture, the more I think this is just a prop.

Initially I thought the ties that close together, somehow compressed, was due to the use of a telephoto lens. but then look how far the ties (sleepers) extend past either side of the rails

I have never seen track like that anywhere.


knut


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

knut, 
That's some pretyy heavily engineered prop track, half spaced ties and extra spikes/holdowns.... 

My 2 guesses are; either heavy duty industrial trackage or a high speed line with lateral forces at play.... I'm favoring the latter. 

John


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

a high speed line 

My guess too - I asked some of the UK guys to comment.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Elke was born in 1940, so I guess the picture was taken around 1980 or thereabouts - anyone want to guess how old she is in the picture? 

That should narrow the search down a bit - there weren't that many high speed lines around 25 to 30 years ago.


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I found the picture to be dated 1966 or '67. 
Is it possible that it's not for trains but for a traveling crane or some such? Looks to me like it might be wider than standard gauge. 

Still puzzled 
Harvey C.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Definitely NOT British - the very narrow tie spacing - even allowing for the telephoto effect - is far too close together, and the track appears to be secured on every third tie. The UK uses Pandrol clips, like many other tracks in Yoorup. Elke Sommer was a 1960's movie star, at one time the wife of the comedian Peter Sellars. Morover, here in Yoorup we do not spike track to rail ties like the US used to, but used to use wooden wedges with the rail clamped in cast-iron chairs that were screwed down onto the ties.

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## dltrains (Jan 2, 2008)

Possibly from a railgun installation?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 17 Aug 2009 04:30 PM 
Definitely NOT British - the very narrow tie spacing - even allowing for the telephoto effect - is far too close together, and the track appears to be secured on every third tie. The UK uses Pandrol clips, like many other tracks in Yoorup. Elke Sommer was a 1960's movie star, at one time the wife of the comedian Peter Sellars. Morover, here in Yoorup we do not spike track to rail ties like the US used to, but used to use wooden wedges with the rail clamped in cast-iron chairs that were screwed down onto the ties.

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 

Tac,

I'm not sure about it not being Yoorupeen, as you put it. In the full pic, it looks like continuous welded rail, and from this close-up, it looks pretty heavy in section with a wide base.










Seems to be spiked on every tie ? Those big reversed "C" clip thingies get in the way - as I commented before, I recall they were clamped or welded to the rail between ties/sleepers to stop it creeping in the ties under train braking.

But I also agree about shape and spacing of the ties - not British practice. Could it be a wide gauge - Spain for example, where they had (have?) 5' 6" gauge. Elke made a lot of B-movies in that area.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I think those "C" shaped thingy's are called Pandrol Clips (Pandrol is one manufacturer's name [probably the original manufacturer], but other company's similar products are often called the same even though it is a Brand Name... kind'a like calling any nose tissue a "Kleenex"). They are put on the rail and just grip it so tight that they cannot slide lengthwise on the rail and thus hold the tie that they bracket in place under the rail. The shape is such that the more the rail and tie try to slip in relation to each other the more the clip grips the rail. One side of the clip is like the curve of a "C" and encloses the entire edge of the foot of the rail (easily seen in the photo), but the other end the hook is bent back down so that it does not stick very far above the foot of the rail (cannot see that side in the photo). To put them on, the clip is slid under the rail and the hook end is slipped over the rail foot and the other end is pryed up until it just slips past the tiny bend in the straightened part of the other hook. It is just an "over center" fit. They can be knocked off with a (BIG) hammer, but in use the pressure on the clip is always sideways and that just makes it grip the rail tighter and they don't fall off.

But in the photo it appears the clips are put on wrong! The curve that goes above the foot goes outside of the gauge! The way it is the flanges of the wheels could touch the clips and cause problems (flange wear, possible derailment, or at a minimum, lots of noise!).

Given the apparent broad gauge of the track, the excessively long ties, the abundance of ties per length of track and these Pandrol Clips on backwards, and I think I see more wear on the outside edge of the rail than on the gauge side, so I would agree with the earilier assessment that this is not "railroad" (as in choo-choo train) track, but rather an industrial track for overhead or dock side cranes, etc. They might have wheel flanges on the outside for some reason.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I think those "C" shaped thingy's are called Pandrol Clips 

Charles, I think 'pandrol' clips are the spring clips used to attach the rail to the tie/sleeper. They replaced spikes - which Elke's track clearly has, so her photo predates pandrol. Here's a photo - from the Scalefour model railroad site, of all places: 










The shape is such that the more the rail and tie try to slip in relation to each other the more the clip grips the rail. One side of the clip is like the curve of a "C" 

I'm unable to persuade Google to find me something about the c-clips between the ties. Charles description seems accurate - though I don't think they are Pandrols - google will find lots of pics of them! 

This photo, from a university research project, seems to show spikes on the outside of the rail, Pandrol clips on the inside of the far rail (!) and something sticking up between the ties. 










I'm still searching...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

This is what the clips look like:

http://www.akrailroad.com/OnlineCatalog/TrackAccessories/TiePlatesRailAnchorsGaugeRodsFasteners/tabid/85/Default.aspx

(Second item down.)


I have been told the clips were "Pandrol". Maybe that company made them and the name stuck for some people. But the person that told me may have been missinformed and I have just perpetuated the error.

The above link will show what the clips look like.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Those are rail anchors as previously mentioned. 

Pandrol clips connect rails to ties... only ever seen them on concrete ties. 

Rail anchors are between ties... 

The ties look narrow, the tie plate seems to only have room for one spike.... weird... 

Regards, Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

This is what the clips look like: 

That's the pic/info I was looking for! Thanks, Charles. I didn't search for 'rail anchors'! 

The track in the photo looks like all the welded rail continuous track I used to see in England before I emigrated in the '70s. They were just starting to run High Speed trains, and hadn't started using the concrete ties/sleepers and Pandrol clips, but I remember seeing the rail anchors in stations - where the trains did a lot of braking/accelerating. 

I'd date the Elke photo to the 60s, and to Spain or Italy. Spain because of the broad gauge!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Okay, I brought the photo into Photoshop and did some measuring. (36-24-...)  

Okay seriously... The photo's shot through a very long lens, so the distances are going to be compressed. Looking at the width of the tie compared to the width of the space between the ties, there's more space between the ties than the width of the tie, which is consistent with standard track construction. Going by how her foot is positioned on the tie, it looks to be a normal 8" tie, assuming she has average size feet. That, and the distance between the ties, puts them on about 18 - 20" centers, which is just a bit tighter than US practice (20 - 22"), but isn't anything unusual. The rail is not continuous welded rail, as you can see the end of a joint bar just under where her dress is blowing off to the side, and the blurry outline of another one just under the locomotive she's holding. 

The tie plates do look to have only one spike in the center of the tie on the inside rail. Alas, we can't see the outside rail, but I'd bet there are two. I've seen tie plates like that before, though its far more common (in the US at least) to have 4 holes per plate, whether there's a spike in all 4 holes or not. 

Elke's 5' 7", so by comparing her height to the width between the rails, the gauge is definitely wider than 4' 8.5". Extending the right hand rail out and measuring height vs. width at the point she's standing, the gauge measures very close to 5' 6". 

If I had to draw any conclusions, I'd say Pete's presumption that the photo was taken in Spain is probably close to the mark. I was a bit concerned because the track construction (spikes instead of chairs) looks decidedly US, but I was able to find a few photos of similarly constructed track in Spain. The clamps could be there for any reason, my guess would be that there's a good deal of thermal expansion, and the clamps keep the rail from sliding on the ties. Spikes located in the center of the tie as they appear to be in this photo have a greater tendency to let the tie twist under the rail, which has the effect of narrowing the gauge. (That's why it's common to see rail spikes on the lower edge of the tie on the outside, upper edge of the tie inside. It counters twisting in either direction.) 

Later, 

K


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Pandrol rail clips. 

http://www.pandrol.com/html/products/eclip.htm 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The only thing NOT in the picture is a pandrol clip... you have ties, tie plates, spikes, rail anchors, a O scale loco and Elke Sommer... 

A picture has already been supplied to show there are no pandrol clips in the picture. Boring. 

Did you find any examples you can show us of broad gauge in Spain? Any better pictures of Elke? What brand of loco she is holding, and if this was an advertisement? All of that would be fun to know. 

Put that big brain into gear TAC! I know you can find some of this out... 

Regards, Greg


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks 'K', I hadn't even heard of Spanish broad gauge. 

Harvey C.


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi,

If the picture is from 1967, Mrs. Sommer spent most of that year filming in Yugoslavia. A western with a railroad theme as a matter of fact. Her partners were Lex Barker and some French bloke, Pierre Briece. 

The track does not look very broad gaugish. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Sommer looks a bit braad around the hips. 

The black thingy in her hand is a piece of soap, she was doing advertising for soap in Portugal the same year. 
She probably invented the term "Soap Opera" and brought it to Hollywood.

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Fritz on 19 Aug 2009 02:02 PM 
Hi,

If the picture is from 1967, Mrs. Sommer spent most of that year filming in Yugoslavia. A western with a railroad theme as a matter of fact. Her partners were Lex Barker and some French bloke, Pierre Briece. 

The track does not look very broad gaugish. As a matter of fact, Mrs. Sommer looks a bit braad around the hips. 

The black thingy in her hand is a piece of soap, she was doing advertising for soap in Portugal the same year. 
She probably invented the term "Soap Opera" and brought it to Hollywood.

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


If that is a piece of soap, I want to know the brand! I'd like to add it to my collection of Steam Locomotive models and trinkets. It sure looks like a Steam Locomotive... either an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0. Either that or the trailing truck got broken off (maybe someone got violent in lathering up with it... or maybe Mz Sommer dropped it when she stepped on a ballast rock or got a creosote soaked splinter in her foot or stubbed her cute little toesy-woesy while failing to step completely over the rail).

Oh yeah...PLEASE... EVERYBODY... I HUMBLY APOLOGIZE FOR MENTIONING "Pandrol"... MY MISTAKE. There is no need to continue saying that the object in question is not a Pandrol clip. That was decided very early after my comment that I thought that was the name. Please also note that I said it was something that I had been told by someone else and I have already apologized for perpetuating that error.

Oh yeah, one more thing... those black curved piece are not Pandrol Clips.

Did anybody notice that there are no Pandrol Clips in use in that photo?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, a bunch of Pandrol-monium ! 

I was hoping to galvanize TAC into diving in to the research, but at least we have an idea where she was in 1967.... although I cannot find a movie with her and Lex Barker in it... know the name of the movie? 

Regards, Greg 

p.s no pandrol clips were harmed in this movie or post


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to completely derail this thread, I looked up movies made by Elke in 1967 and NO Les Barker anywhere. No western-no railroad theme, ANYWHERE.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 17 Aug 2009 04:30 PM 
Elke Sommer was a 1960's movie star, at one time the wife of the comedian Peter Sellars. 



tac 
www.ovgrs.org 


Stared along side her in A Shot in the Dark, (Maria Gambrelli) but never married to her. In related news, Seller's Radford Mini from the movie with the infamous Peter and Elke nudist scene was up for sale again:

http://boxwish.com/blog/view/930-pe...or-auction

Now, if anyone can find some railway related pix with Ursula Andress, Capucine, Paula Prentiss or Romy Schneider, do feel free to post!

Boy was I born in the wrong era....


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 19 Aug 2009 09:10 AM 


Elke's 5' 7", so by comparing her height to the width between the rails, the gauge is definitely wider than 4' 8.5". Extending the right hand rail out and measuring height vs. width at the point she's standing, the gauge measures very close to 5' 6". 





I did some measurements and estimates just before the above was posted and came to the same conclusion.
This is 5' 6" gauge track or very close to it - so if it's not a prop, that would make the country Spain or Portugal since I think we can rule out India, Pakistan and the South American countries that use that gauge.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

As has been already stated those thingys (on the track







) are rail anchors. I've seen these a lot on Santa Fe (now BNSF) tracks. Especially in high speed ATS territory. 


Found a good link if anyone ever wanted more info on anchors.


Rail Anchors


And a photo










Now back to that original photo of Elke


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rail anchors are not just for curves. In fact their major use is to keep the rail affixed to the tie along it's length. This is the main way that railroads handle expansion. 

(yes you see them on curves, expansion can be a bigger problem in curves) 

By anchoring the ties to the rail, the rail cannot slide in the ties, thus the expansion effects are distributed evenly. 

(This is why removing all the screws from our rails makes the expansion and contraction "collect" in different spots, and then people have to put expansion tracks, etc) 

By anchoring the rail to the tie, then the expansion works against the tie (the rail does not slide in the chair/plate) and then it works against the ballast. 

Back to Elke, Knut has shared another picture that makes me believe Spain or Portugal... unfortunately it cannot be posted here, it has another scantily clad woman (high heels only) but the rails, anchors and tie lengths match (THANKS Knut!). 

Regards, Greg


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