# Up grade to Atisto Wide radius turnout



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Finished doing an up grade to an Aristo wide radius turnout out with Train-Li frog and additional hardware. Have not installed in the track as yet but did notice that it still ends up being a flange bearing frog. We shall see how it does once installed along with the mods to the guard rails. The turnout looks cool with the addition of the guard rail and frog plates.


















I like the metal frog and it can be powered if need be. I choose not to at this time. Takes about 1 hr to due the converstion. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Nice job RJ...


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

RJ,

Looks good. I think I might investigate these a little. One of my wide radius switch's points don't push up against the rail tight enough. I think it might be due to some twisting in the switch itself (may need to relevel). Did the hardware for mounting come with the kit? Did you take pictures of your progress? I'm interested to see what (besides the frog) is different.

Mark


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark: all the hardware you see in the photo comes with the switch. Got to excited when doing for got to take addtional photos. Hardest part was milling a litttle of the frog rails to get them to line up with the holes for the jumper wires. 

Check your switch points carefully to see if possibly the back side of the points need a little grinding to get them to fit snug up against the stock rail. If you have some of the older turnouts then you need to grind a little off the switch point to get rid fof the blunt part of the point. Later RJD


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks RJ. The weird part is that last fall, this particular switch worked OK. I think too much winter snow running caused some problems with this one. I might need to install some "Eggink" switch throws (window latches) for a more positive throw, since the switch box arm broke off during a cold day of running. None of the other 5 switches seem to have this problem. That's why I suspect the level is off.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark: You can order replacement parts like the one that broke. If not let me know I have extras. Later RJD


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a couple of those Train-Li frogs....yet uninstalled. I understand that Aristo will sell you a replacement frog for $1 as well. Can someone explain the difference in the two frogs? Side by side photos would help too.


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

I second Mike's request.
JimC.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike: The biggest difference is that the Train-Li has a metal frog and can be powered if you use a micro switch. The frog as I mentioned is a flange bearing frog as compared to the replacement frog from AC which it is not, due to increased flange depth on the AC frog, I have installed 18 of the new AC frogs and I do prefer the non flange bearing type of fog. Smoother operation. However I wanted to try the conversion to see how well it preforms. To date i have not installed in track to make a compairison for a less trouble sum turnout. They sure look cool tho with the added detail. Later RJD


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

The problem I have with the Aristo Wide Switches is when you throw the bar, the points do not move. I have to move the points on most of my switches by hand.

I just bought four of the Train-Li R3 switches to see how they compare to the Aristo switches. If they work and are reliable I will slowly replace all the Aristo swithches.

I thought about going with the Switchmaster switches but they were just too expensive.

John


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

John if your switches are outside and on the ground possible obstruction in the trow bar area, may need some lube to free them up. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

RJ, I measured my 2 Train-Li frogs, and about 6 of my 20 Aristo "new" frogs. 

The Aristo frogs measured from 3.17mm to 3.28mm in my measurements. 

Best case, the Aristo ones are .008" deeper and worst case, they are only .004" deeper. The flangeway depth is varies all over the place on the Aristo units, by location and by frog. 

The Train Li units are very consistent, from 3.01 to 3.02 mm (I use mm because the NMRA standard depth for the flangeway is 3mm minimum). 

So, I don't see how such a small difference between the 2 frogs makes one flange bearing and the other not. 

If EVERY flange on EVERY wheel was exactly 3.17 mm, then theoretically, they would ride up .16 mm (0.006") on the Train Li frog and not at all on the Aristo. 

I think this is not realistic, that flange dimensions on locos and cars vary all over the place. 

So, I'm happy with the Train Li, and also that Aristo finally improved their frogs, although the big improvement in the Aristo design is just the matching of the rail heads in my opinion, the "old" flangeway depth was 3.3 mm. 

The Train-Li is a more solid construction, and very consistent manufacture, and of course you will not get wear of the frog point since it is stainless steel, not pot metal or plastic. 

Of course you pay for quality, but on my mainline, there are 2 Aristo WR switches, and this is where my Train-Li frogs will go. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Greg maybe you did not get the right AC frogs as mine measures 3.33mm. So now no longer a flange bearing frog. Train-Li measures 3.10. Flange now rides the flange depth. Later RJD


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Just an observation ... the Aristo frog for its wide radius switch and the frog for the small radius switch appear to be exactly the same ... is it possible that Aristo used the same frog for both switches instead of a larger frog on the wide radius switch? 

I use Llagas Creek track on my own railroad but the IPP&W uses almost all Aristo switches so I get to see them in action there.

Regards ... Doug


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... a real difference in our measurements... why don't we both re-check our measurements? We should be able to get the same readings, especially since both of our digital calipers came from the same store!. I'll check again when I get home. .23 mm difference is 0.009" so you still say Nine Thousandths of an inch makes the difference? I still believe that variation of .009" is within the variation of flanges on your rolling stock. 

Doug, I heard someone say that the frogs appear the same, but I find it difficult to believe. I do not have any of those 4' diameter Aristo switches. We need someone who has both in hand to shoot pictures to see. It is certainly possible, but at more than double the frog angle, it would not make a good switch I believe. 

If no one has the 2 side by side for pictures, I'm sure I can shoot some at the BTS next month. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I have the 4 ft and no pics but I can tell ya the frogs are not the same. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's what I suspected RJ, the frog angle would have to be really wrong on the 4' diameter one if it used the same as the 10' one. Do you remember that posting a while back about the guy who was having all kinds of trouble with the new Aristo frog, saying he had to grind the rails, etc. I think he had the 4' diameter switches. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes I remember that topic. He forced it to fit and really made a mess of it. Just a thought could it now be a baby wide radius







Later RJD


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