# Ebay and Paypal



## Michael L (Mar 18, 2014)

Hi Folks

Fairly new to the hobby and definitely new to ebay and paypal. I've come to the conclusion that there is some great stuff available for this hobby on ebay and I know ebay has been around for a long time. I have never used it myself. I was thinking about taking the leap. Just wanted to get some thoughts and experiences about using ebay and paypal. I have read some horror stories online (esp. WRT paypal). I always take these stories with a grain of salt but I was wondering about some advice from those here.

Thanks in advance
Mike


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used Paypal for years to pay for stuff - but I do NOT let them have access to a bank account. (My Paypal account charges a credit card.)

EBay isn't too scary, but make sure you know the street price of the item before bidding. It's too easy to get carried away and to pay more than retail.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to MLS Mike.
Never dealt with E Bay but use PayPal all the time both buying and selling. No real problems with PayPal except early on, and that was my fault anyway. 
As Pete said, be careful with PayPal knowing your bank details. I don't like my suppliers issuing a PayPal invoice as that took money straight out of my bank account rather than my PayPal balance. I probably didn't tick the correct box that let that happen.
I have to have them associated as I always sell more than I buy and need to transfer monies from PayPal to my bank account. That usually takes at most 3 days.


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

I have only made a few minor purchases on Ebay. When I was a child, my (now long dead) grandfather taught me that to buy something at an auction, you have to pay more than anyone else is willing to pay. He sold lots of livestock and farm stuff at auctions, but I can't remember him ever buying anything at the auction. I guess that lesson has stuck with me! BTW, my few Ebay purchases have gone very well.

As to PayPal, I use it extensively. As Pete & Tony wrote, I only link a (single) credit card to PayPal. Absolutely no problems there, and even if there was to be some kind of attack, my CC company would absorb the loss.

Linking either a debit card or a bank account to PayPal seems to me to just be asking for problems. And yes, I know that lots of people do that without problems, but most of the complaints about PayPal seem to center around some kind of banking error or fraud.

Happy RRing,

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have purchased a few items via e-bay. I seldom actually "bid" on items on e-bay, but just buy outright (if it doesn't have a "Buy it now" price, I usually skip it completely). I have never really had difficulties with anything I have purchased that way, although, like "mail order", I sometimes get something that is not quite what I was expecting from the description!


I prefer PayPal to make payments for all my on-line purchases, but there are still many web-sites that don't use it, so for that I have a credit card that is devoted exclusively for on-line purchases (it doesn't happen to be a PayPal branded credit card, but that might be a good place to get one just for on-line purchases, even though you can use it anywhere just like any other credit card).

My MAIN use for PayPal is to send Christmas and Birthday $$$ to my kids and grandkids. Sending cash to friends and family is FREE. It is also safer than sending a check through the U.S. Mail (checks to the grandkids have gone awry that way and I had to put a hold on them with the bank; one showed up 4 weeks late and one never showed up). And sending cash to my grandkids is safer than trying to remember if the "Kill Everything in Sight" electronic game they wanted was for the Y-Cube 52 or the Z-Slab 25 (or was that the "G-Hat 6&7/8").


For PayPal, I bought the "Security Key" device they sell. I am on my 3rd one now! (When it dies, you do have to BUY a new one!) 1st one was a "key-fob" sort of thing and lasted 3 or 4 years before the battery died. The other two have been credit card sized devices and the 1st one also lasted at least 4 years. These devices have a small electronic circuit in them that just generates pseudo-random 6 digit numbers every few seconds. When the button on it is pressed, the display shows the number recently generated, which is then typed into the PayPal log-in screen as PART OF of the password (or can be typed-in on the next screen if you forget to append it to the password). The computers at PayPal are also generating the same pseudo-random numbers. It is called pseudo-random because the mathematical process always generates the same sequence of numbers over time, but by just looking at a series of numbers, you cannot guess what the next number in the sequence will be. The PayPal computer and the Security Key both have the same algorithm and are sync'd to each other such that they each generate the same number in the sequence at the same time.

So when a number is typed in, the PayPal computer compares it to the number it came up with and if they are alike, the log-in completes.

I am fairly certain that it really checks the typed-in number against a short list of numbers that might have been generated over a several minute period and the computer at PayPal adjusts its algorithm timing to help keep the computer sync'd with the clock in the Security Key. As the battery in the Security Key wears out, the clock in it will change in frequency, [either faster or slower!], so the two can get out of sync over time. But by adjusting the computer timing, they can be kept in sync longer. I do not use my PayPal account all that often, and I have had them get so far out of sync that the log-in won't complete. When that happens, the log-in process will ask me to press the button again and enter the next number and do that up to 3 times to try to find where my Security Key is in the pseudo-random sequence, and re-sync them.

When the device goes belly-up, then I have to go through the process just like I would if I had forgotten my password, which requires providing answers to the security questions that get entered when creating the account and a special number is sent to me via a phone call. (I am not sure but I think there are other methods that can be selected for receiving the special number, such as via the e-mail account associated with the PayPal account, and maybe by a text message to a cell phone).


Another thing I did to help make my finances a bit more secure is that I opened a separate bank account just for PayPal to know about (when I joined, a credit card alone was not sufficient and I had to have a bank account). This separate account does two things for me... 1) I only keep a small amount of money in it, so if things go awry, I cannot lose much. and 2) I have to transfer funds into that account before I go off half-cocked and buy something in a fit of "gotta have it!". That 2nd one has saved me a lot of money!!!!!!


One more bit of advice... you will be asked to select a couple of pre-defined verification questions from a list, and then provide answers to the questions. Later, if you happen to forget your password (or the Security Key dies) the answers to those questions will help verify who you are. The questions are like: "What was your Father's middle name?" and "Who was your favourite school teacher?", etc. My advice is to "LIE" in your answers! Too many of the possible answers could be too easily ferreted out by a felon determined to compromise your account. Of course, this REQUIRES! that you remember your LIE, or you may be locked out of your account forever!


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## Michael L (Mar 18, 2014)

Thanks for the advice

I would only ever give paypal my credit card number but do they really want access to a bank account? The reason I ask is that I have an Aristo RS3 that I just love and I'm looking to "bank" some spare parts for it. Seems like alot of decent opportunities on ebay. I won't however, give out any serious personal banking info to get them. I'd rather kitbash some USAT trucks onto the RS3 rather than have someone "own" my bank account.
cheers
Mike, Fonthill


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't know what they REQUIRE "now" in the way of bank accounts/credit cards for establishing a PayPal account (I am sure they require at least one of the two). They did many years ago require the bank account. I'd suggest that you start the application and see what they request/require. I believe you can abort the process at any point and start over later if you wish.

Also, if you send money to a friend or family and use the credit card associated with the account as the source of the money then the transfer is NOT free. I have both a credit card and a bank account, so I just make sure to use the cash in the bank account so I don't have to pay the fee.

I will say that to verify the account, they deposited two small amounts into my bank account that they did not withdraw so I actually made money on the deal (around 50 cents if I remember correctly  )!


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Michael,
If you are going to establish a NEW Paypal account you will find a few distasteful requirements. I will elaborate with my recent personal experiences.
I have had a Paypal account for about 6 years. Several (about 4 as I recall) the bank I used to deal with started charging exorbitant fees and being as I had finished my eBay purchasing at that time I closed that bank checking account. Everyone has differing philosophies on finance so leave it to say that I prefer to attach my Paypal to a checking account totally separate from my household accounts and at a different banking institution. With no activity on the Paypal account, nothing was awry. About 6 months ago I opened a new account to use with Paypal, added the new account information and deleted the old account information. When I went to add funds to the Paypal account the transaction was denied and a subsequent email from Paypal advised that there was a problem with my account and I needed to contact Paypal, with an 'Issue Number'. A call to Paypal customer service revealed that in order for me to add funds to my Paypal account I would need to provide Paypal with physical copies of my drivers license, social security card, and two forms of proof or residence. I was informed by Paypal that these were requirements of the Federal Government. Questioning the the requirements, they sent an email detailing their position. In part the email read:

_Thank you for contacting PayPal Customer Support. My name is Trina and I am happy to assist you with your request for information about the laws and regulations that require PayPal to validate identity information.
Due to recent changes in the Bank Secrecy and Patriot acts, we are required to gather information on our customers in order to allow use of some of our products. To comply with these regulations, we must implement a Customer Identification Program (CIP) and verify the identity of our customers. CIP requirements might vary by region, but will include the customer name, address, date of birth, and National/Tax ID number (SSN). If we are unable to verify the CIP information, we cannot provide certain services and may have to place a limitation on the PayPal account. Don't forget, we're always around if you need us. Just click "Help" in the top right corner of any PayPal page to visit our improved Help Center. _

The email does not specifically state 'copy', however they have no means in place to view your information without sending them a copy. Considering past performance and horror stories of Paypal's customer service and security, I have no intention of providing that information in any form of hard copy. That being said I can still use Paypal, but only in a crippled form. Any business 'collecting' from my Paypal account is totally permissable, however I cannot add funds to my account and then send those funds to anyone for a private transaction.

I am in the process of drafting a letter to the Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Banking Commission (or whatever Federal Agency governs banking) requesting clarification as I consider this a matter of phishing, and if this is a legitimate requirement of the government, then they need to provide a vehicle or require the institution (Paypal) to provide a vehicle such that Paypal can view the required data, as I do at any bank, without having physical hard copy in their possession.

Cavaet Emptor.
Bob C.


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## Mark L Horstead (Jan 2, 2008)

That sounds like a phishing scam to me.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I shopped Ebay from their beginning and have used Papal for as long as I remember. I have my account set up to take payments directly from my checking account and to date, have never had a problem. I can't say the same with some of the banks I have dealt with in the past. Also, I changes credit unions a couple years ago and only had to change my banking info. I have never had to or been asked to provide identification, Social Security info or any other info. I buy and sell on ebay. To me, Paypal is as secure and safe as a bank.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Randy,
I too have used Paypal in the past with out issue. According to the person I spoke with at Paypal (number gotten from the Paypal site, not a like somewher) this is new legislation that anyone opening or changing banking information will need to provide to move cash into their Paypal account. As I said above, so long as the funds are in the checking/credit card account, the person collecting from my account will not have any issue. The problem occurs if you and I were to do a private sale and I wanted to SEND you the funds. It still sounds phishy to me. Asking for one piece, like a D/L I might have done, but the amount they are asking for is full on for identity theft. i trust them, but not that much. Especially when I asked what guarantee they were going to provide me that my id was safe and got no answer. Not a warm fuzzy if you get my drift. I will still use Paypal on a more limited basis than I had planned, but that is my life.
Bob c.


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## Sjoc78 (Jan 25, 2014)

If you want to bid on anything on Ebay put it on your watch list first and note when the auction ends. Also as mentioned research what you are buying and know a fair price. I recently got some good deals watching auctions and bidding at the end and setting my max bid to a level I was still comfortable was good. For Example I recently got a new in box Bachmann spectrum UTLX tank car for $60 with $20 shipping which I decided was good having seen these previously for over $100 at my favorite Train Shop. I just used my method bidding late in the auction and setting my maximum to what I was willing to pay and still feel I was getting a good value ($65 in this case).


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I occasionally buy items from ebay and others that require the use of PayPal. Though I have a really old PP account, linked to a long dead credit card, I never use it. 

What I do instead is just go through check-out and when I get to the PP account section, I choose the option that allows me to pay with a credit card. Thus far I have not had any issues with this technique. About the only down side is that it takes a bit more keying to enter the required information but I use Chrome as my browser and it fills in most all of the information automatically.

I will say however, I have no clue what will happen with this method should I ever have a dispute and need to get a return credit. I assume (you know what that word means) that I would handle this in the same manner as I currently do with my existing credit card for non PayPal purchases.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have been Buying on E bay and using Pay Pal for years too.. Pay Pal is attached to a Checking account that I keep 30 bucks in all the time. When I pay for something with Pay Pal I put that amount of money in the checking account. I have never had any problems with Pay Pal. 

JJ


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

I have used eBay and Paypal for years but had not used eBay for some time until recently.

In January I purchased a fairly expensive MTH Premier locomotive from a new seller on eBay. The price and description was good but I was uncomfortable buying from a new seller. Still the price was attractive so I bit the bullet and bid (expecting to be outbid).

I believe the sellers intentions were good but she did a poor job of packaging the heavy locomotive which was significantly damaged by the post office in shipment.

EBay and PayPal always say to try to work with the seller before final filing a complaint. The seller filed an insurance claim with the post office and I took the damaged Loco to the local post office for inspection.

For whatever reasons the claim was denied by the post office and the seller is filing an appeal. Meanwhile the seller has my money and I have a damaged locomotive. EBay and PayPal buyers guarantees are worthless because the eBay buyer guaranty is only valid for 30 days and the PayPal guarantee is only valid for 45 days. Add to this the ability to file negative feedback expires at 60 days.

I am still inclined to think the seller has good intentions but this is what happens when you trust eBay and PayPal to make things right.

In my opinion the biggest risk with eBay is when dealing with an new seller because there isn't a lot to keep them from disappearing with your money if an expensive problem develops.

Up until now I've never had any major problems with eBay or PayPal and this may still work out but I would always be extra cautious with any new sellers.

Jerry


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

I've had good results with eBay/Paypal. To throw in my 2 cents, becareful of how much you bid. Do your research so you know you're getting a good price and set your limit in your mind that you will not go above. Also, previous message said becareful of new sellers, but also becareful of experienced sellers. 

I bought some used brass track that was listed as "C-8 good condition" with only minor dirt amounts. After winning the item and receiving it, the track was popping off the ties and there was lots of green tarnish on the rails, as well as other damage. I've learned to ask the seller additional detailed questions about their item.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Eric, etal,
I also shy away from any seller who is evasive when asking questions. Some years ago when I was doing a good bit of buying on eBay, I asked a sell who had just listed a loco for some additional pics on a listing with something like 20 days out and was told that was impossible the item was already packaged for shipping. I didn't bid.
Bob C.


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## JohnKK (Jan 15, 2014)

I have been using eBay (buying and selling) and PayPal (sending and receiving money) for years. I have not had any problems with either. I was never asked to send ID verification until about a month ago when, for some reason, I decided to "Add Money" to my PayPal account (I had never added money before, all transactions went directly through my hobby bank account). Then I got the same request, to send a State DL, SS #, and proof of residence. I sent an email asking why, and got basically the same response as above. I tried to cancel my request to "Add Money" but was unable to do so. I was still able to use my PayPal account the same way I always did before, but kept getting the annoying message that I had to provide ID verification. At one level I had seen a notice that I only needed to send them one of the three methods they were asking for, so I emailed them a copy of my DL. In about a week, I received notice that my ID was now verified. I am fairly certain that I would not have had to go through this ID verification if I had not tried to "Add Money" to my account.

My 2c,
John


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, I bought an RS3 and received it with a cracked frame even though it was shipped in the original foam lined box. All the shipping companies drop the boxes on their ends. So, they all hit coupler first unless Styrofoam is wedged between the end of the loco body and the foam liner. I shipped a toy Corvette to a guy in California. Even though I packed it very well, it arrived with the plastic windshield and dash crushed. The buyer accused me of shipping the car broken. I ended up refunding the guy before I even got reimbursed by USPS. Still the buyers complained. Luckily, in close to 20 years of buying and selling on Ebay, I've had very very few items damages in shipping.


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Hi Randy,

My problem was that the seller just put wrapping paper around the MTH box and did not tape the ends well. The loco came out of the box & I got it with about half the styrofoam missing and damage to the top, rear and both sides.

IMHO both the seller and USPS were negligent but since USPS accepted and insured it they should pay the claim.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't use anything heavily, but as both a buyer and a seller, I've never had trouble with paypal. Used it for years.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

armorsmith said:


> Michael,
> If you are going to establish a NEW Paypal account you will find a few distasteful requirements. I will elaborate with my recent personal experiences.
> I have had a Paypal account for about 6 years. Several (about 4 as I recall) the bank I used to deal with started charging exorbitant fees and being as I had finished my eBay purchasing at that time I closed that bank checking account. Everyone has differing philosophies on finance so leave it to say that I prefer to attach my Paypal to a checking account totally separate from my household accounts and at a different banking institution. With no activity on the Paypal account, nothing was awry. About 6 months ago I opened a new account to use with Paypal, added the new account information and deleted the old account information. When I went to add funds to the Paypal account the transaction was denied and a subsequent email from Paypal advised that there was a problem with my account and I needed to contact Paypal, with an 'Issue Number'. A call to Paypal customer service revealed that in order for me to add funds to my Paypal account I would need to provide Paypal with physical copies of my drivers license, social security card, and two forms of proof or residence. I was informed by Paypal that these were requirements of the Federal Government. Questioning the the requirements, they sent an email detailing their position. In part the email read:
> 
> ...


 
That email is a scam, if you call that number or reply they will just use that info to seal your identity. If anything is in question go to the Paypal site and get a phone number there, they never ask for that information and anyone that does I never give to and hang up anyway.

As to passwords always use a capital letter, numbers and letters. At least 8 digits.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Jaosn,
I assure that email is no scam. It was received after a 30 minute conversation with PayPal after hunting the customer service number on their web site after I logged into my account. The only people who could have possibly sent that email directly addressing my question about why my account was flagged when I went to deposit funds, would have been PayPal customer service.
If you doubt me, make a change to the financial account tied to your PayPal account. I was advised that the accounts established prior to the changes to the laws referenced would not be required unless they made a change.
Bob C.


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

First, the email Bob C. received is a classic phising letter. I find it very hard to believe it is really from PP, and really question why all the deep information is necessary for simple transactions. I don't have to provide that information for any banking transaction I have ever done.

I am not challenging whether it is legitimate, as Bob C has written that he is satisfied that it is legit, so no further discussion on that.

From my standpoint I can not imagine the reasoning behind linking a PP account to your bank account. That is just asking for fraud, misuse & theft. Once the money is gone, it IS GONE!

I only link a single credit card to my PP account, and have the protection of the CC company against fraud. Researching the facts behind PP's preferences, it appears that they would much rather have access to your bank account as opposed to your CC. The reason is that it costs them more to do business through the CC. TOUGH STUFF for them!!

Can anyone explain why in the world they feel safe in giving a third party access to their bank account??


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Jerry,
The logic behind the checking acct in lieu of a CC is two fold. First, I hate to admit this, but the missus and I got in credit trouble when we were quite young and spent years digging out of that hole and repairing the damage. We are somewhat credit 'gunshy' shall we say. Yes I have credit cards, and use them very sparingly. A separate and dedicated checking account with little to no balance allows for little damage to be done.
As for the letter, I agree Jerry that had I NOT followed the sequence of events I had, I would have surely tagged it a phishing letter also.

Follow the sequence:

1. Logged into Paypal account and changed banking information, followed confirmation procedures.
2. Attempted to add funds to Paypal, was declined the ability.
3. Received an email from Paypal with a case number.
4. Logged into Paypal to retrieve customer service number - NOT from any email.
5. Spoke to customer service representative, referencing case number, requested documentation of 'what laws required Paypal to request said information'.
6. Received email with 'in part' posted above.

I don't wish this on anyone, but will challenge any non believer to change banking status (change bank) on their account and I believe the results will be the same.

Bob C.


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