# cliffs, rock and wire mesh



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I may have shared this with you before but this was a simple place to show the steps
I'm tired of my cliffs looking like stacked rocks.
so








I did above the main line first.
before shot, dry layed and every few years redo them.










he I used wire mesh and my concrete mix of 2 bags gravel and 1 motar









finished it tonight and I have about 50% rock left over for other uses. And camoflage tan spray paint on the motar.
This will hold the ballast in place better and stop those *&%&^%&$%&%weeds.

If time permits i want to rework the whole canyon area so I hope to be done with it once and for all.
BTY
heres what keeps me cooler while working








sand in the bucket.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Looks niceMarty. I use Cinder Blocks on a standard Patio stand from my shade umbrella. I also mounted a pipe on my Back hoe so I can use the same unbrella on the tractor too.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

please bring on WINTER,,,,,I hate this humidity!!! 
all day working in it then come home to work on the RR..... 
Why all the injustice???????


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Welp you could always pack it all up and send it off to me? i dont mind the humidty!!!!







*


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By NTCGRR on 06/19/2009 7:00 PM
please bring on WINTER,,,,,I hate this humidity!!! 
all day working in it then come home to work on the RR..... 
Why all the injustice???????


Humidity sucks out loud. I am in chicago now. I juts finished a training class all week. Tomorrow I am going to THE ILLINOIS RAIL ROAD MUSUEM in Union. A guy from the parts department is going with me. 

Going home Sunday


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Hey JJ, how was the flight??


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 06/18/2009 6:21 PM
I may have shared this with you before but this was a simple place to show the steps



Thank you...this is VERY timely for me. I was intending to stack rock like you had...now, I believe I'll attach it a little more firmly.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Marty and others; 
Instead of painting the mortar, try mixing in stucco dry pigments. Chips don't need retouching. 
I did that when creating a 'Painted Desert' look on a hillside, I used the colors in layers. Though I used CemetAll for strength and it dries whiter. 
If you want a dirt look between the rocks brush dirt on the wet mortar mix, press lightly with fingertips or dapple with a cheap paint brush for good color. Don't overwork and cause moisture bleed turning the dirt green (no pigments), you just want it to stick. 

John


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I wish I had rocks to do that kind of stuff with Marty. Here in Delaware, we have to buy rocks. The highest point in the state is a landfill west of here, and a sand dune on the beach to the north. There are no rocks in either place. 

Paul


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

WOOW, I've always wanted to be a big rock star!!!!!! 
All these stones was brought in from someones unwanted mess. 
Free is not always easy.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

WHY DO WE PUT OURSELVES THROUGHT THIS?????

I only have an hour or so each evening in the shade to work. I'm terracing the mountain and making planter areas to control ground covers better.
I was framing outside today in the heat then come home to "play""









king of the moutain.
starting from the top down and every rock will be moved. the extras will go to the east side of the RR. for dirt control there.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

That Stacked rock look is what I tried to avoid. That is why I use such big rocks. I hope I have succeeded. I have used the mesh and stucco around my tunel portals. Now Marty has shown me that you can use it around rocks. That way you spread out your rock heard.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looks great Marty! And to answer your question: WHY DO WE PUT OURSELVES THROUGHT THIS????? ....it's because we LOVE IT!!!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Sat I after work around 11AM I picked up everything I needed.
I got serious about work and set up a cover to keep me cool while mixing and planning.









I cut strips to place the rocks








working from the top down.










I even got my cabins and bears mounted on a new CCA treated board.
I used Preen and grub control heavy then mulched the finish areas.
Newer spots need to dry bfore I bump them.

well I guess thats it till next week when I start the lower ,harder spots.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking darned good Marty.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I'm past the kicking myself stage to,, man its taking shape and looking good. 
tonight I poured and rocked the south approach to the bridge and started trans planting and removing the middle rocks . 
goal is to be done at the end of July 4th weekend.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow Marty, you _are _an inspiration! Every time I'm out in my garden making changes and I start thinking that "It's too d*mn hot to work out here and I'm too d*mn tired!" and I go inside to cool off, I get behind my computer and pull up MLS and I see your magnificent effort and I am shamed into going back out to the garden to do some more work (Marty, you're a _BAD_ influence!!)


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve 
I'm just ,,nuts.... 
This IS work tho...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Well I guess I will just have to go get me one of them Easy Up Doomafloby thingy things. Then I can have more shade to work in


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty's way is the RIGHT WAY (and it looks good too!).

My way is the DUMB WAY! It's taking me forever...

I thought I could do it my way (cue up your favorite song that fits here) and fit a lot of scenery into a small area. Originally I took inspiration from Bragdon Enterprises' products and thought that after reinforcing & stabilizing the slope behind my pond & waterfall, I could use wire screen to hold a basic shape and retain dirt for some small groundcovers I wanted to plant when it's all done. Well, the dirt wasn't retained all that well by the larger-holed wire screen I was using, so I had to show myself that I could do one better, and use aluminum wire screening to hold the dirt in. The aluminum screen is VERY flexible, and the dirt pushes it all out of whack, so I have to install HUNDREDS of thin wire ties so the aluminum screen molds itself to the wire mesh...otherwise it bulges out ridiculously.





















I still intend to use Bragdon's molds, resins, and expanding-foam system, as it fits well into a small area around my pond & waterfall. BUT, again, I had to re-invent the wheel and deviate from their recommendations as well, doing it "my way." Bragdon has several different ways of applying their scenery systems, but I have to be different.... *SIGH* I was concerned that the pressure & weight of the dirt behind the screen pushing against the resin rock castings & expanding foam would cause distortions.

Which begs the question: why didn't I just glue real rocks together (like I did around my waterfall, and others here have done with success) to retain the dirt, along with the wire mesh screen? God only knows...

Don't do it the way I'm doing; it takes FOREVER, I'm barely 1/3 of the way done, and I've spent 4 full days with the stupid window screen & wire ties...still A LONG WAY TO GO.

Do it Marty's way, or the way others have done it...don't do what I am doing!!!


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

And just to be clear: Bragdon's scenery systems are simply BRILLIANT, and I can't wait til I get to the point where I can start installing it. They have a couple of different ways of installing it, and they all seem pretty easy. 

Just wanted to clarify that I had to be DIFFERENT, and of course it's turning out to be far more difficult than I intended....why I'm still continuing with it is beyond me; I've forgotten already. All I can think of is that I'm so far along I have to finish....UGH. 

So please don't mistake my rant for a knock against Bragdon's products; I think they're brilliant & can't wait to use them! No, if you use Bragdon's products, PLEASE follow their recommendations!! Don't try to be different like I did... 

And I have to add: Joel Bragdon is one of the most helpful people I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with. He is very enthusiastic & generous. I love his products, and I love his customer service even more. I wish more in the hobby (and in general) were like him! 

*EDIT: Sorry Marty, didn't mean to hijack your thread....please keep up the good work!!*


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

The Bragdon stuff is a very thin layer of urethane foam. How do you expect it to hold back a wall of dirt?


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By astrayelmgod on 06/30/2009 9:02 PM
The Bragdon stuff is a very thin layer of urethane foam. How do you expect it to hold back a wall of dirt?


My point exactly.

After I finish this portion, I am going with Marty's method to finish.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Warren 
There is NO DUMB way. 
I happen to be able to get rocks free at times. One does what one has avaliable. The shade finally hit me after years of sun burns. 
Now I worry about skin cancers.


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty , do you get a discount on your cement because of the amount you bye ,or because it's you!!(contractor) You're yard will have more cement than dirt.Ha Ha Ha !! So when are you going to put in a cement pond Sean


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a rubber lined pond. 
the cost per bag is not bad. I also have agreed to buy any damaged or bad bags at their cost so they don't loss. 
Its not worth it gas wise to drive to Menards and bring a load back.


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By bottino on 06/20/2009 11:24 AM
I wish I had rocks to do that kind of  stuff with Marty.  Here in Delaware, we have to buy rocks. The highest point in the state is a landfill west of here, and a sand dune on the beach to the north. There are no rocks in either place. 

Paul 







Wow. I think I would wither and die if I lived in an area without rocks. 




Marty, your mountains are looking great!


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Here ya go Marty, these babies make installing the wire ties for your mesh a snap:









Harbor Freight Tools has them cheap ($6.99 for the 6-inchers, $9.99 for the 9-inchers). My wife & I just got back from our local Harbor Freight, where I picked up one of each size to speed up my wire window screen install.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By NTCGRR on 07/01/2009 6:02 PM
I have a rubber lined pond. 
the cost per bag is not bad. I also have agreed to buy any damaged or bad bags at their cost so they don't loss. 


A freind works for Home Depot and get's the damage bags from them Also on the pallet is Stucco. Which I get. I have three 30 gallon trash cans full of stucco and morter mix. This fall I plan on Stuccoing between my rocks too.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

well we took off work at noon for the 4th of July thing. I decided to remove one of the lower walls. dueing the 2nd batch of concrete I got rained on.







You can see here how many rocks are left over after removing the stacked wall. Now I can take these up and do the back side by Minersville where it has not been worked.I also work to step the stones alittle bacl of the lower one to give it more of a rock face.I will show you later a bad area I did when I got lazy . the nice thing NOW is I have lots of stones to choose from.In the beginning the canyon was built as the rock loads came in. sometimes weeks apart.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I always thought that was a foundation for a old barn or something. I didn't know that was stacked rocks.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

No JJ. they were all hauled in one load at a time. 

4th of July evening after a nice afternoon at Bubbas. I had an hour or so to kill before fireworks time so I 









so tomorrow I can start cementing .


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Marty You need a Web Cam so we can watch you Do this.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Weekend is finally done. 
I have 14 more feet to do but it can wait. 








I moved alot of rock up on top for the East area to begin. 
I try not to move anything until I know where its going.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, the difference is striking - your hard work is well worth your effort, OUTSTANDING!!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, Sunday evening and Monday evening was cooler so I removed the rock and dug out what I needed to clear. 
This afternoon, Tuesday was a short day at work so i came home and concreted the far back wall. And hauled the extra stones up on top. 








This is how many stones I salvaged from the canyon plus 3 other piles. 
This will go into the mud slide area behind the grain elevator. 








As of now I just have little stuff and ground covers to do on the canyon .
I also thinned out the spireas ,"trees" and will keep them trimed low to make the bridge look talled.
Plus I made sure I could get the riding mower into it.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work old man.







Shows you are still up to it. In case you folks missed it the Man had a birthday this week. Later RJD


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The bridge is tall I can walk under it with my cowboy hat on......


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I have only untill our Sept 26th open house to get all the rock work done, so Friday evening with fan I started the long stretch behind the elevator. 








any thing to help me keep working helps


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

My Marty It looks great. 

Note to self......Self get one of them tent thingies.


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, it's really coming along....nice looking results from your hard labor. 
In you pictures posted on the 25th, your railroad looks to be adjacent to a really large planted field, but I can't make out what the vegitation is??? Is that planted area yours or are you living out amounst farm land. WOW, that's a cumbersome sentence, sorry


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## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

Posted By John J on 05 Jul 2009 06:09 AM 
Marty You need a Web Cam so we can watch you Do this. 

Yup we are ready for the WIRELESS "Marty-Cam"!!

Great stuff as always Marty....


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking Great Marty, can't wait to see it in September!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Howard 
its bean field this year, corn the next. we bought 4 acres out of an 80 from an old family farm. It was a mess.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Bubba droped by and helped pull weeds which helped me get this area terraced. 









lots of ground cover yet and ballast then heading north along the highline .


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking GOOD!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Holy moly Marty........that's some _seriously_ nice terracing!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Tuesday AM we got hit with heavy rain and high wind. I was very happy with the new terracing and even with losse dirt and fresh mulch it all stayed in place.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, you have done an absolutely fantastic job! Your layout transitions into the surrounding landscaping so seamlessly, one has to ask "Is it real, or is it North Table Creek?" 

Your rock retaining wall is an absolute masterpiece, the end result looks like the work was well worth the effort. 

Just gorgeous!!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, Warren, now I have a big head. 
I just came in to cool off. I'm working just north of the gazebo on the Scenic High Line. 
Its the home stretch. 
Man am i tired. 
Next weekend is the HGRAS show , so maybe that will pump me up to finish. 
The High Line Bridge by Duncan will take some time getting that all figured out.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Gee I did not think Mary knew what ballast was







. Later RJD


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking better and better all the time Marty


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I can see the end .










working on the north higline area.








This weekend isclub meetings and one pinic.
3 weeks left


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## Henson (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good Marty, also looking forward to seeing it again.


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good Marty.


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## dltrains (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good Marty. Maybe you should contact Sean Mcgillicuddy to get that trestle back in use.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

well we had around 70 folks here today for the NE/IA Mixed scale train club. all went well. Not sure if any converts yet. 
I think my RR looks very small compared to Ron Senek's thousands of feet of track spread out over his vast state.


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

Mine is not bigger I just don't have all the trees and rocks. Mines au natural


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Well thanks to Bubba helping a couple of afternoons pulling weeds and cutting bushes. I think i will be ready for the open house. 









I can see the end now. I probably will run out of rocks but thats OK. 









The North Highline really looks different w/o trees "bushes".


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good. Marty are you being paid by the hour? You are sure stretching it out







Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

As the sun has set, so is the last of the construction photos. 









I have the 15ft GMM High Line Bridge all screwed and wired together and it needs alittle leveling. 

Tomorrow should be the last of the concrete work. 









I'm very happy witht he way its turning out.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I think you should be happy, Marty. I think it looks VERY nice, and very natural.

Ed


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

The day i took this photo I had no idea for sure what I could do. 









today the cat walks and rail is all in and I was out watering to get the soil to settle and start packing it in. 








I had to lift the curve to the left og the photos because the dirt had settled to much when the support rock was weak. 
Now I need to rest to work this week. 
Bummer.


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, Am looking forward to seeing it in a few weeks....


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Back side of this Highline is simple and easy to maintain. The blocks was a buck each and I can mow and water can drain. 
Whos going to see it? its all "pretend" tunnel. 









I also have a fainly living in this area . Heres to two kids.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

See, What did I say in that other tread. All the more reason to bring Sunglasses.....Dazzling


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

"Pretend tunnel"? Looks like a good spot for a snow shed to me.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

The sad part now is, a friend," Landscaper" called today saying he has some large stackabout natural stones if I wanted them. I could have concreted them. OH well.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By NTCGRR on 14 Sep 2009 03:10 PM 
The sad part now is, a friend," Landscaper" called today saying he has some large stackabout natural stones if I wanted them. I could have concreted them. OH well. Haul them home you will eventually find a use for them. 

They don't eat much and are not expensive to store


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By John J on 14 Sep 2009 05:14 PM 
Posted By NTCGRR on 14 Sep 2009 03:10 PM 
The sad part now is, a friend," Landscaper" called today saying he has some large stackabout natural stones if I wanted them. I could have concreted them. OH well. Haul them home you will eventually find a use for them. 

They don't eat much and are not expensive to store 




Heck include pick up and delivery of one stone each as part of the directions to the shindig.....


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't wait to see it Marty, maybe make a vow to just leave it as it is for the next year and take it easy.  You are getting 
older ya' know?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry 
Carrie asked about the same thing Sunday evening,"you shouldn't have to do this much work on it next year, will you?" 
this fall I want to make more videos for You-tube. 
and I want the highline to run as well as the lower lines and be trust worthy.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,

I've been hearing that from Marty for about six years now. I done, I done, not going to change anything or buy trains.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Don you crack me up!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well one thing about it you always get to see something new. No wounder Marty gets nervous he has to always try to change something before the next opern house.







Later RJD


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