# Tool for lots of fake rivets



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I want to "punch" lots of rivet heads in thin styrene, brass, or something similar. Maybe 200 rivets per piece of material, and 2,000+ in total. Material would be 5" x 12" max.

The NWSL riveter machine is a step in the right direction, but I'd like to automate it. I think I need a simple CNC mill and a punch/die combination. Or can I automate the NWSL machine?

Any suggestions?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Pinwheels are fastest, but it would take time to make so many identical imprint heads, similar to pounce wheels the smaller scales can use. Best when there is a mold to press into.
John


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

pinweels rolled on aluminum heating tape(backside) and then glued to your project!


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Pete,

I want to make something that automates the riveting process myself. I was pondering the mechanics and found the machine linked below. Its a serious approach to DIY. 

CNC Rivet Embosser

Michael


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete;

Have you already investigated the rivet decals by Micro Mark?

Best,
David Meashey


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Michael,
Looks great, but maybe a little too 'do it yourself' for me.
Something like that but RTR would be nice.

Dave,
I have tried Archer decals, but they are just not 'thick' enough for a scale rivet. They suggested putting a decal over the decal to add the thickness, but it was a bit of a hassle.

I use the NWSL rivet dies in my drill press and have made a hand wound jig so that I can do straight lines of decals, and it does have the side benefit of building arm muscles - but can be very boring!
Something automatic for a couple of thousand dollars would be great.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

It's a project for sure, but its definitely doable. I'm eventually going to build a CNC embosser, I have other small modeling size CNC equipment which will mitigate some of the cost to build the embosser.

I have tryed the Archer rivets too, I concur with David's thoughts.

Michael


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael, if you ever get your CNC embosser I'd love to hear about it. I've been wanting one for years but haven't been able to figure it out.

-Jim


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting ideas.

The pinwheels are out, as my rivets are in precise patterns that aren't linear.

I too tried the Archer rivets - they sent me a sample. (There's a thread around here somewhere.) As David says - not thick enough and not a perfect hemisphere.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Can you write the CNC G-code code for the Mach3 software? If so, I can give it a try on my machine. You don't need to download the Mach3 software to write the G-code (though it may help). You can do that in something like G-simple. The G-simple software is free. 






http://www.gsimple.eu/ex1/ex1.html


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Pete Thornton said:


> Interesting ideas.
> 
> The pinwheels are out, as my rivets are in precise patterns that aren't linear. -snip-
> 
> ...


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

toddalin said:


> Can you write the CNC G-code code for the Mach3 software? If so, I can give it a try on my machine. You don't need to download the Mach3 software to write the G-code (though it may help). You can do that in something like G-simple. The G-simple software is free.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf1a6F2tYdU
> 
> http://www.gsimple.eu/ex1/ex1.html


Is that a question for me, because I have no idea. I'm new to all this.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael Glavin said:


> Pete,
> 
> I want to make something that automates the riveting process myself. I was pondering the mechanics and found the machine linked below. Its a serious approach to DIY.
> 
> CNC Rivet Embosser


Michael,
I suppose that's the kind of thing I was thinking about. A $200 machine that operates in 2 axis and also up/down.

While I think I could handle making one, it seems fiendishly complex to get to the first rivet punch!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Pete Thornton said:


> Is that a question for me, because I have no idea. I'm new to all this.


Yes,

If you, or someone, will write the code, I'll try to run it on my CNC mill. Two hundred rivets could require nearly a thousand lines of code and could be quite time consuming.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

As an alternative...

Obtain a cheap, heavy duty sewing machine (e.g., Goodwill). Trim a heavy duty needle down in length to serve as the punch and you can adjust the "stitch length" to make nice rows of rivets, all at the same depth just by turning the hand wheel or stepping on the electric pedal.

Feed the material through as you would feed a piece of heavy cloth or leather.

May be worth a try.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I can see you guys need some more info. This riveted model has a LOT of rivets in unusual patterns.








And that's just the front. I reckon there are 1000+ rivets in similar (and more complex) patterns on the sides.

I have a CAD drawings. I can make them into just one layer of rivets-only. Just need to figure out what kind of machine will do the job.

I am not about to punch every one by hand. Or with a pinwheel!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> If you, or someone, will write the code, I'll try to run it on my CNC mill. Two hundred rivets could require nearly a thousand lines of code and could be quite time consuming.


The link Michael provided included a DXF to G-code converter. I don't have a problem creating such a file (or something similar.) I assume (being a computer geek) that rivet patterns mean repetitive code sequences. Be nice just to feed my DXK file to a CNC mill though?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

And, for heavens sake, what's with the parallel interfaces on these machines ???? We haven't used them for 10 years?

I do happen to have a working PC with MS-XP on it that has a parallel port. In fact, I have an ancient flatbed scanner that still works and gets occasional duty when the item to be scanned won't fit the Officejet. But really - can't they use a USB like everything else?

Maybe I'll wait until they do !


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

This is a product I have made professionally, but I figured out the G-code to program my machine to make the spacers.



















This is the code required to make the shape less the two slots, threaded hole in the center, and ball-mills and grooves. You can see why I was hesitant to try to program hundreds of rivets.



% 
O1 
(G-Simple, Version 2.05) 
(Created: Mon Feb 11 12:13:41 2013) 
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N354 G01 X0.4497 Y0.15 F3.937 
N355 G03 X0.9063 Y-0.004 I0.4566 J0.6 F3.937 
N356 G01 X5.4063 Y-0.004 F3.937 
N357 G03 X5.8478 Y0.4375 I0. J0.4415 F3.937 
N358 G03 X5.7089 Y0.2534 I0.0526 J-0.1841 F3.937 
N359 G03 X5.3537 Y1.4966 I-0.1776 J0.6216 F3.937 
N360 G03 X5.4063 Y1.3125 I0.1858 J-0.0465 F3.937 
N361 G03 X5.4063 Y1.504 I-0.1658 J0.0958 F3.937 
N362 G01 X0.9063 Y1.504 F3.937 
N363 G03 X0.4497 Y0.15 I0. J-0.754 F3.937 
N364 G00 Z0.9842 
N365 G00 X5.7414 Y0.15 
N366 G00 Z-0.8577 
N367 G01 Z-1.0083 F3.937 
N368 G01 X6. Y0.15 F3.937 
N369 G00 Z0.9842 
N370 G00 X-0.3885 Y0.45 
N371 G00 Z-0.8577 
N372 G01 Z-1.0083 F3.937 
N373 G01 X0.2146 Y0.45 F3.937 
N374 G00 Z0.9842 
N375 G00 X-0.3885 Y1.05 
N376 G00 Z-0.8577 
N377 G01 Z-1.0083 F3.937 
N378 G01 X0.2146 Y1.05 F3.937 
N379 G00 Z0.9842 
N380 G00 X-0.3885 Y1.35 
N381 G00 Z-0.8577 
N382 G01 Z-1.0083 F3.937 
N383 G01 X0.4497 Y1.35 F3.937 
N384 G00 Z0.9842 
N385 G00 X-0.3885 Y0.15 
N386 G00 Z-0.9493 
N387 G01 Z-1.1 F3.937 
N388 G01 X0.4497 Y0.15 F3.937 
N389 G03 X0.9063 Y-0.004 I0.4566 J0.6 F3.937 
N390 G01 X5.4063 Y-0.004 F3.937 
N391 G03 X5.8478 Y0.4375 I0. J0.4415 F3.937 
N392 G03 X5.7089 Y0.2534 I0.0526 J-0.1841 F3.937 
N393 G03 X5.3537 Y1.4966 I-0.1776 J0.6216 F3.937 
N394 G03 X5.4063 Y1.3125 I0.1858 J-0.0465 F3.937 
N395 G03 X5.4063 Y1.504 I-0.1658 J0.0958 F3.937 
N396 G01 X0.9063 Y1.504 F3.937 
N397 G03 X0.4497 Y0.15 I0. J-0.754 F3.937 
N398 G00 Z0.9842 
N399 G00 X5.7414 Y0.15 
N400 G00 Z-0.9493 
N401 G01 Z-1.1 F3.937 
N402 G01 X6. Y0.15 F3.937 
N403 G00 Z0.9842 
N404 G00 X-0.3885 Y0.45 
N405 G00 Z-0.9493 
N406 G01 Z-1.1 F3.937 
N407 G01 X0.2146 Y0.45 F3.937 
N408 G00 Z0.9842 
N409 G00 X-0.3885 Y1.05 
N410 G00 Z-0.9493 
N411 G01 Z-1.1 F3.937 
N412 G01 X0.2146 Y1.05 F3.937 
N413 G00 Z0.9842 
N414 G00 X-0.3885 Y1.35 
N415 G00 Z-0.9493 
N416 G01 Z-1.1 F3.937 
N417 G01 X0.4497 Y1.35 F3.937 
N418 G00 Z0.9842 
(FINISHING LEVEL 0) 
N420 S1000 M03 
N421 G00 Z0.9842 
N422 G00 X5.7593 Y0.0769 
N423 G00 Z0.059 
N424 G01 Z-0.3667 F3.937 
N425 G01 X5.7078 Y0.2572 F3.937 
N426 G03 X5.3548 Y1.4928 I-0.1765 J0.6178 F3.937 
N427 G03 X5.4063 Y1.3125 I0.1819 J-0.0455 F3.937 
N428 G03 X5.4063 Y1.5 I-0.1624 J0.0938 F3.937 
N429 G01 X0.9063 Y1.5 F3.937 
N430 G03 X0.9063 Y0. I0. J-0.75 F3.937 
N431 G01 X5.4063 Y0. F3.937 
N432 G03 X5.8438 Y0.4375 I0. J0.4375 F3.937 
N433 G03 X5.7078 Y0.2572 I0.0515 J-0.1803 F3.937 
N434 G00 Z0.9842 
N435 G00 X5.7593 Y0.0769 
N436 G00 Z-0.3077 
N437 G01 Z-0.7333 F3.937 
N438 G01 X5.7078 Y0.2572 F3.937 
N439 G03 X5.3548 Y1.4928 I-0.1765 J0.6178 F3.937 
N440 G03 X5.4063 Y1.3125 I0.1819 J-0.0455 F3.937 
N441 G03 X5.4063 Y1.5 I-0.1624 J0.0938 F3.937 
N442 G01 X0.9063 Y1.5 F3.937 
N443 G03 X0.9063 Y0. I0. J-0.75 F3.937 
N444 G01 X5.4063 Y0. F3.937 
N445 G03 X5.8438 Y0.4375 I0. J0.4375 F3.937 
N446 G03 X5.7078 Y0.2572 I0.0515 J-0.1803 F3.937 
N447 G00 Z0.9842 
N448 G00 X5.7593 Y0.0769 
N449 G00 Z-1.041 
N450 G01 Z-1.1 F3.937 
N451 G01 X5.7078 Y0.2572 F3.937 
N452 G03 X5.3548 Y1.4928 I-0.1765 J0.6178 F3.937 
N453 G03 X5.4063 Y1.3125 I0.1819 J-0.0455 F3.937 
N454 G03 X5.4063 Y1.5 I-0.1624 J0.0938 F3.937 
N455 G01 X0.9063 Y1.5 F3.937 
N456 G03 X0.9063 Y0. I0. J-0.75 F3.937 
N457 G01 X5.4063 Y0. F3.937 
N458 G03 X5.8438 Y0.4375 I0. J0.4375 F3.937 
N459 G03 X5.7078 Y0.2572 I0.0515 J-0.1803 F3.937 
N460 G00 Z0.9842 
N461 M09 
N462 M30 
%


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

You're trying to put me off, aren't you ?

Actually, the link that Michael gave to the 'homemade' CNC mill was equally off-putting. He was creating a G-code file, and then editing it in MS Word to replace half the commands with something suitable for his punch, which is not a drill.

Guess it's back to laser-cutting rivet holes and inserting individual rivets. . .


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Pete Thornton said:


> You're trying to put me off, aren't you ?
> 
> Actually, the link that Michael gave to the 'homemade' CNC mill was equally off-putting. He was creating a G-code file, and then editing it in MS Word to replace half the commands with something suitable for his punch, which is not a drill.
> 
> Guess it's back to laser-cutting rivet holes and inserting individual rivets. . .



While some CAD programs can produce the g-code, most require at least a bit of manipulation to make it "machine specific." This is easily done, post processing, in Word, Notepad, or any other text editor.

I don't have a CAD program and use the G-simple program (freeware) I linked too, but the free version has some limitations (can't pause during the operation and limits on the number of lines of code), but this can be gotten around by running multiple programs for the same piece and I don't run sophisticated programs.

If you want to give it a try, download the G-simple program and give it a try. The hardest part is getting the "tool post" set up properly, but once you get beyond that, it's not difficult, though it is time consuming.

You are not dealing with any curves. It is simply a matter of telling the machine "where to go" in the X-Y planes. Then tell it to "drill" a hole too a depth (e.g., 0.0025" deep) for the Z-axis, but leave the motor turned off to use the bit as a punch. Then you tell it to lift the bit.

Then you repeat the process for the next rivet. Don't worry about feed rates and the like, I'll take care of that in post processing.

Not that difficult to understand for what you want to do. In my case:

N11 G00 X-0.3885 Y0.15 
N12 G00 Z0.059 
N13 G01 Z-0.0917 F3.937 
N14 G01 X0.4497 Y0.15 F3.937 
N15 G03 X0.9063 Y-0.004 I0.4566 J0.6 F3.937 

Commands are executed by line number. If you want to drill/punch a hole/dent, you need to first place the tool (bit), lower it, raise it, then move to the next position and repeat the process. One could save countless lines of code if there were "do loops," and there are probably ways to do this in subroutines, but I've never needed to and don't know how.

N = Line #

Gets you started:

G00 = Rapid Positioning to the coordinates:
X=-0.3885", Y=0.15"
Z = 0.059"

Moving on:

G01 = Linear Interpolation to the coordinates:
F = Feed Rate (inches per minute)
G03 = Circular Interpolation, Counterclockwise
I & J are used in making circular cuts, (X and Y set where it starts, and I and J set the radius and how many degrees of the arc), but I don't think that you would need to deal with this.

You could even take the commands I've provided above, figure out where all the rivets are to be, and do the programming in Word allowing you to "cut and paste" from position to position by simply changing the line numbers and X and/or Y position values.

Or even better..., put it in a spreadsheet and let it calculate the X-Y values and Line #'s for you, then just cut and paste the spreadsheet into Word with no table format. Rows of rivets should be relatively easy to figure out and any "odd" rivets can be added into the sheet manually. That's probably the way I would do it.

If you want to give it a try...


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