# Massoth Automatic Uncoupler



## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Massoth Automatic Uncoupler, 2 Pack[/b]
Product number: 8414002 


I just noticed the above on the All About LGB website at http://www.allaboutlgb.com

Does anyone have personal experience with this unit?

I would be especially interested in installing these in various locos from LGB Moguls (tenders) to Aristo GP-40's and USA GP-38's & NW-2's.

Along with this I would be curious if and how they might be activated not only with LGB's MTS but also with the Aristo Revolution.

I like the LGB 21900 & 23900 but need to double head them because they do not have enough traction for switching larger trains.

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Hello Jerry: 

The Massoth automatic uncoupler is designed primarily for installation in some LGB Locomotives. It can also be fitted in some Piko and Train-li locomotives. You can download a copy of the user's manual here: Manual. It can be controlled via any NMRA compliant decoder with Dec+, Dec - and an amplified >50mA function output terminals. 

Mohammed 

http://www.allaboutlgb.com/
http://www.massothusa.com/


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I like it! Nice and simple. Open collector output (on/off). Why does Kadee need to use a servo? Slow motion uncoupling?


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jerry! 

I have quite a few of these now and really like them. I am using/triggering them on DCC using LGB, Massoth and Zimo decoders. 
Installs are super easy. If you have loco specific questions look on the Massoth forum as they have lots of examples or can help with any others. You have to be consistent with coupler height to get optimum performance. You can trigger two at once using a single connection too if you are short of functions. 
Del, I suspect Kadee uses servos because a) they are cheap and readily available, b) easily controlled by most 
modern decoders often with direct plug in. 
Jerry, I see no reason why you couldn't trigger them with the revolution too. 

Keith


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I looked at the manual and saw that you should not run with the coupler down. Why is this? Also one needs no load? 

I installed a servo and programmed my Zimo with the waltz and the decoder does everything for me, when I stop the engine automatically reverses, drops the hook, stops and goes forward uncoupled. And I can stay with my hook down and just push cars without ever being coupled unti; I deactivate the uncouple mode. 
Perhaps this is why a servo is used, they are sent to a position and then power is removed from the motor. 

PS, this waltz function of the zimo decoder works with with the MTS system at a friends home but does not work with the Massoth system.


----------



## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Hi Guys,

As you probably know I have always been primarily a track power guy. While I have a Massoth Navigator with Central Stations 2 & 3 and LGB Remotes they are primarily for use with LGB locos that came with decoders preinstalled. I did try to install some decoders in Forneys along with LGB 41352 sound boards but I think I gave up on it. I never did learn much about MTS and DCC. About all I ever did was to control speed, bells and whistles and it has probably been at least a couple of years since I last ran anything under MTS.

I like MTS and have nothing against it but I run trains so infrequently these days that I cannot remember what the loco ID's are and what controls what. When LGB went bankrupt and Aristo came out with their Revolution with Plug N Play everything new tended to be Aristo and Revolutions.

Even so it may be a year or more since I last ran anything.

That said, the Massoth Automatic Uncoupler has me excited as I have always considered switching to be the best part of running trains. I love my LGB Auto Uncoupling Switchers but they are too tiny to have much pulling power.

Having read the Massoth instructions this is what I have found so far:

US Moguls - requires significant modifications (nothing explained about what these modifications would be)
Forney - NO for front and rear can be mounted directly (I guess it can be connected to an LGB decoder if I can fit one in)
Corpet Louvet - easy modification front and rear can be mounted directly (I've never tried to take the CL apart)
USA NW-2 - nothing
USA GP-38 - nothing
Aristo GP-40 - nothing

I did check the Massoth Forum but did not find anything about installations in these locos.

On the decoder side I have some MRC AD322's, Digitrax DH123D's, and a Digitrax DG583S that are left over from some never attempted installs I had once planned. Since I already have them and they are paid for I would like to use them before buying anything new if possible but I did not see any reference to Dec +, Dec - or FA in their instructions.

My thoughts are: 
1. it would be easiest to put a cheap decoder in the Mogul tenders if the factory decoder is in the loco. 
2. I can't remember if any of the Forneys have a factory decoder. I think not and that probably disqualifies the Forneys.
3. The Corpet Louvet may be the best choice to start with as I think it came with a decoder but I would be somewhat reluctant to disassemble it as I never have taken one apart before.
4. I would really like to put Uncouplers (front & back) in one or two NW-2's (my favorite switchers) but with their unique swinging couplers I suspect it would not prove practical.
5. The GP-38's should make great switchers and I would not mind putting a good decoder in them if I felt the installation was not too complicated and that it would work. 
6. The GP-40 has a Revolution in it (as do other Aristo locos) so it would be great if I could fit the Uncouplers to it and plug them into the Revolution. If that worked well I can see putting Uncouplers on SD-45's and even E-8's.

I would really like to hear from someone who has installed Uncouplers in these locos or other Aristo locos with Revolutions.

Sending the locos off for someone else to install the Uncouplers would be an option except that I am extremely reluctant to box up and ship any loco anywhere. About the only option here would be if I could have a loco worked on at a train show I happened to go to.

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

here is a picture of A Massoth Automatic uncoupler installed in LGB's latest Toytrain diesel locomotive. The uncoupler is attached to a Massoth M Decoder. 

Mohammed
AllAboutLGB.com
MassothUSA.com


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Mohammed - please remember the 800 pixel maximum width for images posted in the forums. Thanks.


----------



## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

The links below show the Revolution connections. I may be missing something but I do not see where the Massoth Automatic Uncoupler could be connected.

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/je...arness.jpg 
 http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Aristo-Craft/Revolution/Adapter%20Plug.jpg

Has anyone successfully operated the Uncoupler with a Revolution?

Also, how about with any of these decoders:

Digitrax DH123D or DG583S
MRC AD322

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry FYI The AD322 does have F1 to F3 at 100ma capability but they do not tell you how to move the sounds to another function. 

The 583 does allow functions to be reprogrammed but I do not have one and I have no experience with it. 

The 20780 has a 3 wire motor block and needs to be converted to 4 wire for a decoder. 

LGB decoder I would use for full MTS compatibility is the 55027 which has 6 function outputs, but for less money, there are much better decoders out there.


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 25 May 2013 02:15 PM 
Mohammed - please remember the 800 pixel maximum width for images posted in the forums. Thanks. 

Dwight - I was unaware of the 800 pixel limit; thanks for bringing it to my attention, and for modifying the image to conform with the limit. 

Mohammed
AllAboutLGB.com
MassothUSA.com


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

For everyone's information, *The Rules*.


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Here are the before and after pictures - LGB ToyTrain Diesel Locomotive with a Massoth Automatic Uncoupler.

* Before* 











*After
*










Mohammed 
AllAboutLGB.com
MassothUSA.com


----------



## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 26 May 2013 05:05 AM 
Jerry FYI The AD322 does have F1 to F3 at 100ma capability but they do not tell you how to move the sounds to another function. 

The 583 does allow functions to be reprogrammed but I do not have one and I have no experience with it. 

The 20780 has a 3 wire motor block and needs to be converted to 4 wire for a decoder. 

LGB decoder I would use for full MTS compatibility is the 55027 which has 6 function outputs, but for less money, there are much better decoders out there. 



Hi Dan,

I usually do not use the sound function of the AD322. I got a bunch of them on closeout and normally just use the basic stop & start controls. If they can work with the Uncoupler it would be great. They would possibly be a good (cheap) choice to put in the tender of a Mogul so I would not have to mess with the factory decoder. The AD322's proved totally unsatisfactory when I tried installing them in ABBA consists (terrible motor controls as they use electrical/mechanical relays).

The Corpet Louvet I have is the 21791. I believe it should have a built in decoder (and 4 wire motor block) but if so I don't know which decoder as I have never had it apart. 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/je.../21791.pdf


I used the LGB 55027 for most of my MTS installations and had intended to use it with the Forneys but it proved too tight a fit for me so as I recall, I gave up on it.

Both the 21791 Corpet Louvet and one of the Forneys (none of the Forneys have factory decoders) would be good places for me to put Uncouplers if I could convince myself that I could do it.

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Jerrys-RR on 26 May 2013 01:48 PM 

The Corpet Louvet I have is the 21791. I believe it should have a built in decoder (and 4 wire motor block) but if so I don't know which decoder as I have never had it apart. 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/je.../21791.pdf


I used the LGB 55027 for most of my MTS installations and had intended to use it with the Forneys but it proved too tight a fit for me so as I recall, I gave up on it.

Both the 21791 Corpet Louvet and one of the Forneys (none of the Forneys have factory decoders) would be good places for me to put Uncouplers if I could convince myself that I could do it.

Thanks,

Jerry 



Hello Jerry: 

The Corpet Louvet 21791 has what LGB refers to as a large on-board decoder. To Connect a Massoth Automatic uncoupler to an LGB large on-board decoder, you just plug the wire attached to the uncoupler to a socket labeled F1 on the decoder.

As for the Forney, I have installed both Massoth L and LS decoders in them, and they both fit well. The L decoder will work well for you. Attaching the uncoupler to an L decoder is child play.

Mohammed

http://www.allaboutlgb.com/
http://www.massothusa.com/


----------



## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Hi Mohammed,

I emailed an order in for a couple sets of Uncouplers. As long as I've been requesting that LGB or Massoth come out with them its time for me to show that I was serious when I asked for them.

Let me know if for any reason the order does not show up.

I think I have a lead on how to make them work with the Revolution so I may be ordering more of them. 

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Jerrys-RR on 26 May 2013 07:24 PM 

Hi Mohammed,

I emailed an order in for a couple sets of Uncouplers. As long as I've been requesting that LGB or Massoth come out with them its time for me to show that I was serious when I asked for them.

Let me know if for any reason the order does not show up.

I think I have a lead on how to make them work with the Revolution so I may be ordering more of them. 

Thanks,

Jerry 




Hello Jerry: 

I am glad you decided to give them a try; please call if you need any kind of help with the installation.

Mohammed

AllAboutLGB
MassothUSA


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, I believe that LGB F1 is used for smoke in many LGB decoders but is controlled by F5. Not sure about Jerrys engine, need to verify cv settings for function control and this is best done with the computer interface if Jerry has it. Original programming should be in the manual that came with this engine. Perhaps Mohammed can help here as he has the same engine.


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 27 May 2013 06:47 AM 
Jerry, I believe that LGB F1 is used for smoke in many LGB decoders but is controlled by F5. Not sure about Jerrys engine, need to verify cv settings for function control and this is best done with the computer interface if Jerry has it. Original programming should be in the manual that came with this engine. Perhaps Mohammed can help here as he has the same engine. 


Dan, Jerry:

I do not have the same engine, but the parts diagram shows an on-board decoder that look like this:










As you can see, there is socket labeled F1 right next to the blue socket; the automatic uncoupler should be connected to socket labeled F1. The smoke generator is usually connected to the 2 pins above the F1 socket.

Mohammed


----------



## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Hi Mohammed and Dan,

Thank you for the information and I will eventually use it. FYI (so you don't expect too much) it may be months or more before I get around to installing the Uncouplers into anything.

I still have a number of locos, Revolutions and sound systems that I never got around to finishing when I bought the last batch of Revolutions. At least I've started by blowing the leaves off the layout and hope to burn them before long.

It takes a lot longer to get things done these days.

Jerry


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

FYI Blue sockets are track power and go to the sockets at each end of an engine for passenger car light power or sound cars. 
red socket is sound board connector 
M1 and M2 are Motor blocks 
SW it the SWitch in the cab. 
2 pins in the middle are track power 
2 pins on upper left are the smoke connectors and are usually tied to F1 and sometimes F2 but programmed to a different function number.


----------



## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

If F1 is usually used for the smoke generator what happens with the smoke unit if F1 is instead used for the Uncoupler?

Even if I use a 2nd decoder for the Uncoupler would it not create a cconflict if the factory decoder is using F1 to turn the smoke unit on and off and a 2nd decoder is using F1 for the Uncoupling functions?

I think some of the cheap decoders may only have an F1 function.

It would not be a major problem if I could leave the smoke unit turned on permanently as I seldom turn it off.

As I said, I really don't know much about decoders. LGB must have had people like me in mind when they came out with their dumbed down version of DCC.

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 28 May 2013 05:21 AM 
FYI Blue sockets are track power and go to the sockets at each end of an engine for passenger car light power or sound cars. 
red socket is sound board connector 
M1 and M2 are Motor blocks 
SW it the SWitch in the cab. 
2 pins in the middle are track power 
2 pins on upper left are the smoke connectors and are usually tied to F1 and sometimes F2 but programmed to a different function number. 

Dan: 
On large LGB on-board decoders function output 1 and function output 2 are always separate and independent.

Mohammed
AllAboutLGB.com
MassothUSA.com


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Jerrys-RR on 28 May 2013 08:52 AM 
If F1 is usually used for the smoke generator what happens with the smoke unit if F1 is instead used for the Uncoupler?

Even if I use a 2nd decoder for the Uncoupler would it not create a cconflict if the factory decoder is using F1 to turn the smoke unit on and off and a 2nd decoder is using F1 for the Uncoupling functions?

I think some of the cheap decoders may only have an F1 function.

It would not be a major problem if I could leave the smoke unit turned on permanently as I seldom turn it off.

As I said, I really don't know much about decoders. LGB must have had people like me in mind when they came out with their dumbed down version of DCC.

Thanks,

Jerry 


Jerry: The following pictures show the Massoth Automatic uncoupler installed in an LGB 22711 with an LGB large on-board decoder, like your Corpet Louvet. 






























The middle picture shows the uncoupler's 3-lead wire (black, brown, red) plugged into the F1 terminal of the LGB on-board decoder.

A Massoth S sound is also connected to the LGB on-board decoder via the white and red wire seen in the center of the picture. 

Mohammed
AllAboutLGB.com
MassothUSA.com


----------

