# Plastic rail



## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Saw Bill Frank over at Martinsburg this past wkend and he showed me 
a 10 ft section of the plastic track... Its just the rail itself that 
their making, it was slid into A-C tie-strips... Looked real good, a 
chocolate brown in color, had a good shape to it, an very flexible too, 
won't need a rail bender with this stuff, just roll whatever U need off 
the spool and start sliding on tie-strips...hehe Besides the obvious 
limitations of being only usable for battery RC, and maybe live steam, 
the only serious reservation I had was the wear factor... How well will 
it holdup under heavy usage, and, or heavy engines ??? On the otherhand it 
ought to be a lot cheaper than metal track these days, so it could be 
replaced periodically... I had a couple other minor concerns also, what 
is the friction co-efficient between metal drivers and plastic track, 
especially after it has worn smooth & shiny ??? And what about a really 
big heavy engine like a USA BB, would axle loading be a problem, as it 
can be in the proto-type world ??? I'd guess the battery car for something 
like that might be pretty heavy too...hehe But given its shortcomings, it 
certainly could be the answer to the outrageous track prices, at least for 
a segment of the hobby... 
Paul R...


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## Zonk (Feb 20, 2008)

heck with some of the composites they have out there nowadays there shouldnt be a worry about strength. There are a few railroads that are swapping to plastic ties. I think this is a great idea. Its nice that someone has finally picked up the idea. The only downfall i see is for the guys modeling outside....there sure would be a lot of movement


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I had wonfered about plastic rail , they can do almost anything with plastic to serve in different uses , should work well for battery powered trains . 
Thanks fore the info , any chance of some pictures of it in use ?


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Given the concerns about metal track prices I guess this will arouse many folks interest. 

As a track powered operator I do see a possible use for this track, if it is found reliable and strong, and that is unpowered storage sidings - particularly those not in full view.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Sounds very interesting. 

But I'd be concerned with metal wheels picking up plastic residue. Sort of like what plastic wheels do on metal rails, just reversed.


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## Sourdoh (Jan 6, 2008)

If it's UV resistant and is relatively stable over a short length, it could be good. Of course, a composite that would answer those needs might be just as, or nearly, as expensive as metal rail. I don't think it would shred or grain off much if it is designed to be used outdoors. As far as traction loss from railhead polishing is concerned; metal rail does the same thing, so that is a wash. ****, real rail gets pretty shiny too. Just go easy on start up like the prototypes do and it should be OK. It might be the wave of the future. Or it may be a flash in the pan. Who is going to be the Guinea Pig to try it out on their layout?


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## Zonk (Feb 20, 2008)

Is anyone selling any of this track yet?


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

As far as I know the stuff is still in the testing & evaluation mode 
at this time... Didn't have a camera with me at the time, so I didn't 
get any pics of it... 
Paul R...


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

One of the fellows with the Mesa Grande layout owns a Plastics molding facility and was handing out samples of the extruded rail at HAGRS this year. The plastic is not UV protected, but he is working on that problem. He also had a section of track he was testing, inserted in the mainline of the layout. This section had a thin strip of copper glued to the top of the rail head. Seemed to conduct current okay, but he was having a problem with power connections to the strip of copper.


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## Kevin Miller (Jan 5, 2008)

Plastic rail would be ideal for for sidings and storage yards where there is little travel.


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

why not! there making snow plow's out of plastic!


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

The gentleman from Mesa Grande was Martin. I just sent him an email letting him know about the post here. I have some samples of the rail which I think would work really good for battery only users and will try to get some pictues as time allows. 

Raymond


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Just to remind all of you positive thinkers and the naysayers as well, that the plastic rail I originally produced was for “static display use only” as an alternative to the high cost of brass. Why invest in brass for display purposes unless you are speculating on the futures market on brass? Now you know what drove the cost of gas up! 

None the less I am flattered that many of you want to take the plastic rail beyond display use and actually RUN on it! For those enthusiasts I am hearing all your pros and cons and want you to know, I am listening and taking in consideration all that was said. 

First of all, you should know this, my first production run of the plastic rail was primarily a test to learn its characteristics and appeal. The first run does not contain a UV additive since it wasn’t intended to use outside. However, a UV additive IS possible and available for the next run. The first run was a PVC material, the same type of polymer used in outdoor plumbing if that indicates any idea of outdoor longevity it could possibly have and longer with the UV. 

But I am currently investigating yet another more durable material for outdoor use. If in fact anyone does actually indent to RUN ON IT. So, for those still wondering about the durability, wear and tear over the long run, these tests will still have to be made. So far I personally am using it in my yard and on sidings for storage for decorations. 

During the HAGRS show, I did slip in a test section with a copper tape applied because we were running DC. Most of the time one of our members ran USA’s 25 pound Hudson pulling over 70 cars. A small acid test, don’t you think?! The copper tape did fail as I had expected, but lasted longer than anticipated. It took a day and a half of constant abuse. However the rail itself help up well over a continual 2 day use! 

As for the combination and concern of plastic wheels on metal track vs metal wheels on plastic track or metal wheels on metal track, In every combination you are going to be faced with cleaning dirty track, REGARDLESS. Your problem with either be dirt, plastic dirt or oxidation. The only way to to avoid this is battery operation where a dirty or oxidized track doesn’t effect the direct battery power. We just can’t seem to escape, “track maintenance.” 

For those who keep trying to match it against metal track, it’s NOT. And you still have your metal track available to purchase. Brass hasn’t been discontinued. But for those who don’t have the need for metal track, it may have an affordable niche. MSRP @$.80 per linear single rail foot. 

If you have other questions, concerns, or additions. Please feel free to contact me or respond to this post. 

Thanks guys! 

Martino


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

It could be a good seller and shift more new people to battery power, if it holds up okay. I'm sure the high rail price is discouraging some from getting into the hobby. Jerry


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Martino, 

Have you considered the market potential of those who run indoor layouts? 

I hope you come up with a winning product. 

For those who run DC, DCC, etc, how feasible is it to cast in a flat strip of copper wire in the top of the rail? Or sell an optional strip with an empty groove pre-molded and let the buyer install his own conducting surface? 

Les


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Well, Yes. 
I have thought of electrifying the plastic rail with a conductive material. 
The rail is not "cast" but extruded. 
No immediate plans but I am doing research on brass roll forming.


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## GlacierBill (Jan 2, 2008)

It would seam to me that an extruded rail could be done with a small grove in the top of it so that one could either insert a pre made plastic insert or even cheaper rail such as HO flex track tail. This is relative inexpensive, would increase the weight resets for the trains (this would especially obvious when a train sits for time on a section of track in the heat), allow very easily adjustable curves, add an option for to the track as well as keep it usable for both Live Steam and Battery. My only concern with the Live Steam is do they produce heat that may be a factor (I have never tried Live Steam so please forgive my ignorance). If this track pans out I think it will be a huge boost to the hobby.


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

I think the idea of inserting HO flex rail in the top of G plastic rail is revolutionary. It may limit the contact area and complicate cleaning a littel, but it would provide the DC continurity and save us all a fortune. I would have no problem with the track/ties all molded in one piece like the New Bright stuff. Certainly would lower the bar for entry in to the hoby. 

Peter.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I can hear the "battery mafia" drooling over the future prospect of plastic rail. Couldn't resist the urge!!!!!! It's the "Little Devil in me" LOL/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

SURVEY Question? 
Help me understand what you are willing to undergo or tolerate to achieve an economical yet durable track alternative. 
Let me begin with NON conductive plastic rail for battery op. 

If I supplied you just the plastic rail to insert into your own tie strips, would you purchase just the rail? 
Or do I need to supply the tie strips as well? 

Next survey, 
LGB & PIKO make/made euro style ties, 
ARISTO makes both EURO & AMERICAN. 
AML I believe also make an AMERICAN style. 

Would anybody be insterested in a "CONCRETE" style similiar to the CLASS I that both the UP and BNSF are using on western mainlines?


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Question 1 - Yes 
Question 2 - Yes 
With good UV durability as I live on the Western edge of Arizona were at the moment we are in a little cold snap of 110. Last week we were at 118+. I am buying the “Chernobyl” brand of sunscreen now. 
Best, Ted


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Ted, Thanks for the response, however...... 
Look, again. There are 3 questions. I'm not sure if your second answer is to my second or third question! 
Maybe I should number them, eh? 

Martino' 

I'm in North texas, you have us beat by about 13 degrees! You win. sorry about that.


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes - Yes & **** Yes! 
Ya but its a DRY heat - kind of like a blast furnace LOL!


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## GlacierBill (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd be in to try it, with or with out ties, I do not have any battery trains, but would love to give it a shot.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2008)

Posted By Martino on 08/10/2008 12:43 PM
SURVEY Question? 
Help me understand what you are willing to undergo or tolerate to achieve an economical yet durable track alternative. 
Let me begin with NON conductive plastic rail for battery op. 

If I supplied you just the plastic rail to insert into your own tie strips, would you purchase just the rail? 
Or do I need to supply the tie strips as well? 
?



Rail and Tie Strips as a Unit. 

Posted By Martino on 08/10/2008 12:43 PM

Next survey, 
LGB & PIKO make/made euro style ties, 
ARISTO makes both EURO & AMERICAN. 
AML I believe also make an AMERICAN style. 

Would anybody be insterested in a "CONCRETE" style similiar to the CLASS I that both the UP and BNSF are using on western mainlines?



No Euro


American style, yes


Concrete style, yes





I run rail power. 
Toad


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi, 

Im building a battery powered RR curently have 200' of lagas code 215 allum. narrow gauge track. 
I would try it with narrow gauge tie strips if you plan on making them. 
In answes to your questions, 
1 yes 
2 yes 
3 no 

IMHO rail with sepreate tie strips that you put together your self might be a better way to go than all in one peice track. If you can ciol the rail say in 100' coils with the ties seperate, you could make 100' of track with NO rail joints and it would be a lot cheaper to ship than 6' foot peices of ready made track. 

chuckger


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

I dont think I would use the plastic rail for main line runs as I currently am only running Live Steam, but I think that this would be a great product to use for sidings and yards, where I will be using battery powered trains. With the current cost of rail, I feel that I am so limited in expanding my operations and this would give a great opportunity. 

1. No to Euro 
2. Yes to American 
3. Yes to concrete 

And that is my 2 cents


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I would DEFINITELY buy plastic rail and ties, especially if they came with turnouts! We seem to have a severe shortage of those. Even hand laying turnouts would be easier with plastic rail. I like the idea of the HO scale rail on top, I'm assuming that it would be inverted, and all of those Atlas HO flex track tie strips on eBay would confuse the heck out of people... 

Would you make more than one size, say code 332 for the mainline guys, code 250 or even 225 or 200 for the narrow gaugers? Tie strips would be good, too, or even complete flex track. 

Very nice idea! With the brass rail on top, it would wear just like - brass rail! OR, think about this guys, instead of using inverted HO Brass rail, we could use inverted HO Nickel Silver! 

Robert


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Wow! 

This is all much easier said than done. 
Currently its all experimental. 

For the time being I am afraid all I will work on is code 332. Sorry guys who wish for the other sizes. 

For the time being, no switches either, sorry again. Even I want the switches!!! 

But before anymore comes about, I have to settle on a durable rail and tie. 
Only then will the engineering of conductivity come next. 

Yup, inverted HO scale rail would certainly boggle a bunch! I do find it intriguing tho'. 

thanks for all your comments. 

Martin


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## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm all for innovation, so keep up the good work with plastic rail! Is it possible to install the copper strips used for the copper foil stained glass technique on the lastic rail? If so, how long would it last? 
SandyR


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## Zonk (Feb 20, 2008)

hey guys i reckon you could always learn something from this.... 

http://www.epsplasticlumber.com/livesteam.shtml 

Matt


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Plastic R1 switches are made by playmobil and there are adapters available for these to code 332 rail.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan. 

I think weatherproof plastic track would be a great idea. 

I can't see on the Playmobil website whether their plastic track is UV stable or not. Do you have any idea if the Playmobil track would be so?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

what was the questions? 
I'm for concrete ties, but plastic rail I'd like to test some for couple of years first.


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Sandy, I have no answer on how long the plastic rail will last outside. The first run samples were for indoor display use. So my next run will contain a UV additive. I recall my first use of my older Aristo plastic ties outside in the Texas heat lasted about 4 years. Aristo and others have improved on that over the years. So without a timed trial period yet, I can not give you a longevity response. 

Matt, That is a great link on the plastic infrastructure roadbed. I think I have seen bits and pieces in one place or another. The website is much more detailed. There are a lot of innovative guys out there trying new things with new materials. I like that. That's how we share and learn new ways. 

Dan, Plastic Playmobile switches? Can't say I've seen them or used them and seriously doubt they contain a UV protect additive. I have never heard anybody claim to have used them outdoors. 

As for the idea of using copper tape for leading stained glass, funny you should mention that. At the HAGRS show I put a two foot section of test plastic rail in our module set up with the copper tape. We ran USA's 25 pound Hudson on it for 2 days. It worked, but took a beating. I removed it before complete failure. There were 2 problems we had with the copper tape that I used. First, it was too soft. The engine scuffed it quite a bit. Maybe a harder grade can be had. Second. The only width available wasn't wide enough to give me the surface I needed to solder to on the backside of the rail. So my solder points were located where either the flanges or wheels pounded it. It was an acid test. The copper tape has some merit, but I'm not convinced its the answer in the fashion I tested it. I am also using it for yard storage where there is minimal wear. Oh, keep in mind, the Mesa Grande is an INDOOR exhibit, not outdoor. Nor have I had it in use long enough for the copper to oxidize, I'm waiting to see how long it takes for that to occur. 

R&D continues 

Thanks guys, keep the comments coming!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Martino on 08/14/2008 7:06 PM
Wow! 
This is all much easier said than done. 
Currently its all experimental. 
For the time being I am afraid all I will work on is code 332. Sorry guys who wish for the other sizes. 
For the time being, no switches either, sorry again. Even I want the switches!!! 
But before anymore comes about, I have to settle on a durable rail and tie. 
Only then will the engineering of conductivity come next. 
Yup, inverted HO scale rail would certainly boggle a bunch! I do find it intriguing tho'. 
thanks for all your comments. 
Martin




I forgot to mark the 'mail' box on this thread and am again late to the party. I will run indoors, so UV is irrelevant to me as are ties. I'd make my own, most likely, unless they were cheap to buy. I'm already planning on stub switches--my layout is a special case, early--so switches don't mean that much. I'm assuming your track will be flexible to some degree. 

The guys who mentioned 100' rolls/coils with a section on top to insert HO rail had excellent ideas. I have no idea if N would work or be cheaper, but all one needs is the conductive property, little matter how it is arrived at. 

I really think you're onto a winner of an idea if you can bring it off and want to offer all the encouragement possible. 

Les W.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I think this is a great idea--plastic rail would have been perfect for my train shed, which is mostly for storage of cars. But if it could be made to conduct, that'd be great. It would be really nice to have an alternative to the high price of track.You could maybe insert HO flex track upside down into the plastic track head, increase the contact area--that might work. joiners would be tough. I'd buy some non conductive even though I use track power, and put it in my storage yard. 

I think it's an intriguing idea.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

This thread has been "sanitized." Keep the politics and discourtesy out of it or I'll shut it down. A couple of you guys participating should already know better.


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Thank you Dwight, 
I haven't participated in blogs too much and guess I took petty comments to serious to defend. 
I have also removed the signature and avatars due to size complaints. How they work is also a small mystery to me. 
So, I just keep it down to text only.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Good job Dwight! Jerry


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Martino, 

How possible is it for me to buy a short length of a rail of that track, say six feet? I used to make my living designing/fabricating/dreaming up ways to make things work the way some engineer envisioned. (Stealth technology implementation). I am a retired tool & die maker, not a chemist or college boy, so your proprietary info would be safe with me. I'd like to fool with a piece of it to see what exactly it might take to get a conductive strip induced into the track. If you'd rather pass, I'd understand. 

Les W.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I wanted to bring this back to the top. 
I wanted to up grade main #1 in places with concrete ties.
I'm still not for sure if I like it. Take some getting used to. Plus i want to see how well these ties stay in gauge over time.










Maybe its the color???
what do you think?????

Photos later.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, Marty, I have to say your concrete ties, both in shape and color look just like the ones I have seen on the 1:1 railroads!

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty, is that plastic rail in the concrete ties, or other rail? 

Thanks, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

its brass rail, I just chanced out the ties. 
I measured them last night, at 44.45 on the micro. 
I always wanted concrete ties but their alittle "bright". I don't know.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the look of the ties as well. 
The mainlines of Australian RR's are being changed to all concrete ties which may of course become discoloured over the years. But, at the moment they are quite light grey.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Tony 
This should have been track VS battery then I would get hundreds of thoughts. 
Now that I want them,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 
not that this is totally relevant but I've noted in teh past that I've got a LOT of the track from A! line or TDV that ahve "simulated concrete ties. Those will look very strange indeed as they will present to the eye once ballasted separate ties on each rail seemingly to be unrelated. 

I I 
n__n 

So if the spacing stays once I post this the rails sit atop what seems to be individual Concrete ties and they are joined by a section of plastic that will be underneath the balast once it's balasted int o keep them "in gauge". Does that make more sense? It's not North American as far as I know? I will use what I've got however. It too is VERY light gray in color. Honestly if you only focus on that section with now comparison then it looks fine it is the transition between that makes it look abruptly different. 

Chas


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

I thought someone was doing a wear test on a circle of plastic track. Are there any reports on how it held up?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have installed a strip of the ties on my new track that goes to the covered storage area as I wanted to see how well the ties will stand up holding my curve in gage at the start of my removable section of track. The AC tires tended to come loose from rail at this location. Later RJD


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

I like them, but I am used to seeing them in the new Railyards being built in Joliet, thats all they use now is the concrete ties. 

Tom H


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I recieved the rest of my ties from Kidmans today. I got smart and while they were still in the package I took them into the band saw and cut off that fat square thing on each end and made the cuts to free one side of the ties so i can use them on curves. Then I opened them uo and spray painted them light concrete gray. The factory plastic is just too blue-ghray for my liking.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Some not all RR use concrete ties. The cost verses wood is still a factor plus the the durability is also a question unsolved. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

You know me, I just want to try something different. In my hast I forgot to spray paint the rail. I hate shiny brass. 
I just ballasted the area . so maybe a photo tomorrow.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty, I really like the concrete ties. Looks great with your pink ballast. Looks a lot like the BNSF mainline here in Southern California.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

You can get matching pink ties american style now at Train-Li.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

well,, I'm going to have to get used to them.









But I got my ol buddy RJ watching over them.


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