# Saito LS Ship Kits have arrived



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Not a locomotive but still live steam.
The Age of Sale has finally received a container which included kits from Saito of Japan. These kits are beautiful . The Neptune Deep Sea Salvage Tug kit I have waited for has finally arrived and is on it's way to me. 
Depending on my build progress for my next birthday I will order the boiler kit and steam engine. 
I was inspired by a gentleman who about one year ago posted on this site his testing of the boiler he was going to install in a British War ship. If you see this, thank you and please post your progress. LG


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I got a Saito steam engine for one of my wooden tugboat back in the 80's and it is a fine runner...are they still available? Where would you get it?


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Phippsburg Eric said:


> I got a Saito steam engine for one of my wooden tugboat back in the 80's and it is a fine runner...are they still available? Where would you get it?


Once upon a time, there was only one easy-to-find dealer in the U.S. - Loyalhanna Dockyard:

http://www.loyalhannadockyard.com/

In recent years, a couple of Japanese entrepreneurs have been selling new product directly from Japan and the prices have dropped.

Search *Ebay* for Saito steam and you'll see for yourself.

I started to collect these fine steam engines without having any immediate use for them. Hobby interests are sometime not rational. 

I do have a T-2DR, a T-3DR and the mighty T-2GR along with the brass boilers which I may sell at some point.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I ordered mine from Age of Sail out in Ca. Last time I checked Saito web site they were the only ones in the US carrying the Ship kits. They listed several dealers but when I called them they told me they only carried the Airplane engines. loyalhannadockyard still carries the boilers and engines if that's all you are looking for. 
I have set up a separate work table with a 4' fluorescent light above just for this project, I expect to be engaged with it for some time, not a shake the box kit for sure. LG


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, those engines are beautiful:










Greg 1,002 (getting close)


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

I had a senior moment above. 

I meant to suggest searching Ebay and you'll find that you can buy the Saito products at a fair price directly from Japan - including the ships models.

If you are nervous buying through Ebay, Age Of Sail is likely a good choice.

I have had very good personal experience with Ebay and they have some good return policies for those relatively rare times when you may be disappointed.

Yes, the Saito engines are well made. 

You will note the similarity to the Aster two and three cylinder marine engines, also used on the Shays.

But the Saito is nearly all brass and no white-metal mating to brass on the manifolds, so a better design in this case than the Aster design.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I have seen a large harbor tug with two of those twin cylinder engines, one for each prop. He had seperate throttles and direction servo's for each engine. It as an older style tug with single rudder but with seperate controls, he could still turn the tug on a dime. Props were counter rotating to cancel out any torque effect when steaming straight ahead. Have a steam tug is on my bucket list. Just not sure I have the patience to build the kits anymore. Mike


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, the Neptune kit comes with a gear box so one engine can operate both props that counter rotate each other. I do like the idea of separate engines with separate controls much better. I have a long way to go before I get to that point, but you can bet I will remember that enhancement. Could probably use 2 smaller engines than the one large one recommended since each will only be turning one screw and not the gear box also. Will have to check the gear ratio's to see if the engine to prop revolutions are the same. You have added another dimension to this project, THANK YOU. LG


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Controlling 2 motors at the same time to effect maneuvering is pretty impressive, would like to see that in action.

Greg 998


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, you really cranked me up. This is also a single rudder boat. I found a whole forum of guys that do powered model Tugs. All the chat I have so far seen is of batterie powered units, but that is no obstacle. They discuss prop revs among other helpful info. I'm on my way. Already figured the additional engine and servo positioning in the ship, working on the transmitter control configuration, AND the kit won't even get here till tomorrow. Like the one you saw I'll use two 2 cylinder engines rather than the one 3 cylinder they suggest. Only hesitation point is the cost, but he** this is most likely my signature project and I expect it to take minimum one year. I'll still squeeze in train mods now and again of course. LIFE IS GOOD.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nick, I hope you will post your project progress here for all to enjoy!

Greg


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Controlling 2 motors at the same time to effect maneuvering is pretty impressive, would like to see that in action.
> 
> Greg 998


I do it on my (big) boat all the time. Makes docking easier.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I applaud your physical coordination skills, without even seeing them!

Videos somewhere?

Greg 983


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

The kit has arrived. I imagine this is similar to what an Aster kit is like. Each bag has an inventory of its parts that correspond to the build plans. I will check off the parts that I remove then staple the bag shut. You can see the size compared to the E8's on the shelf. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I won't bore you with each part of the build, but I think I have reached a mile stone. The ships frames and main deck are now installed and TRUE. The basic framing for the superstructure and deck house is now also in place.
this is construction project not an assembly kit. while the wood parts are basically shaped as they should be, there is additional fitting necessary to make it all came together and fit properly. Looking ahead in the instructions many of the ABS parts also need to be shaped. I am happy with the kit and still looking forward to many months of modeling bliss. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

During ccnstruction changes can be made. The kit was supplied with strips of PVC to apply to the Bulwark in an effort to make it smooth. That worked very well over most of the hull accept the Forecastle, (aboard ship we pronounced it Folksle) That required more bending and shaping than the PVC could stand even using a heat gun. I resorted to using Bondo, my old pal. I first used the Glass variety to adhere and fill the hull casting. Tomorrow I will use #3 to smooth that part and also smooth minor joints in other areas. Pics show the Fantail with the strips provided and the bow in its present stage of development. LG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Only use Bondo sparingly, it is very heavy, always easier to add weight to a model boat than to remove it. This should be a nice build, Saito makes great kits and engines, I have a few.

Steve


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm a bit ahead of you with the Neptune. Got mine painted and the deck planked








(before planking the deck)

As to switching out the engines, As you can see this is about as big as your are going to get in the hull. I have engines from 4 different manufacturers and I am really impressed by the Saito engines. This is more than enough to take this boat up to hull speed.


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmmm Didn't like my pictures?

http://forums.mylargescale.com/memb...uadalupe-forks-picture14226-hull-painted.html

http://forums.mylargescale.com/memb...guadalupe-forks-picture14202-boat-boiler.html


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, thank you for the tip, will keep it down to the minimum. So far I think I will only need a skin coat of #3 to smooth that area. 
Joe, your progress is beautiful, I have a ways to go to get there. I have seen a video of their engines in action, and I am very impressed. Did you use a fire retardant paint on the hull inside? The only reason I want to use two, smaller, engines is for maneuverability, and to add another dimension to the project. Since you have already been where I am headed, do you have any advice/suggestions for me? thank you. BTW, I printed your pics, on the wall as incentive.


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Modern tugs have amazing maneuverability but since this is a model of a 1930's ocean salvage tug all you worry about is raw horse power and sea keeping ability. The only engine I have that has bigger cylinders is my K28 and she only has two cylinders. I just want to see if it will pull our canoe.

The green paint is just a sealer paint I used on the plywood frames to protect them. While I was painting them I decided I didn't like the looks of the raw fiberglass and I had all this paint.....

The boiler is an alcohol burner so fire is a possibility but since one presumes you will be running it on water there is always lots of fire surpresent around.

Sending you a PM.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, thank you very much, PM to you. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, after a closer look at your pic, I can see where you succeeded using the PVC in the bow area where I failed and resorted to Bondo, just hoping the bulwark edging will stick to the Bondo. I also like your choice of green instead of the blue recommended for the bulwark, IMHO lighter colored will bring out the detail better. LG


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

On bending the PVC I learned on my first Saito boat that it is a pain without a heat gun and with a heat gun it melts in just a few seconds. I used a two part process of making a template of nails in a board to make the initial bend. Just add heat slowly feeling with your hands on how warm the plastic is to avoid a brown pile of goo. Once I got the bend close I used a hand drill and drilled through the PVC to the hull and inserted straight pins to align everything. Pulled the PVC away from the hull slightly leaving the pins in place, put on some 2 ton epoxy and pushed it back together. The alignment wasn't perfect but a little Bando and sand paper and no one will know.

Really didn't like their color scheme so I'm using varying shades of brown and green depending on the location. It's hard to see in the picture but the hull panel above the water line is black but the panel above the white rub rail is a very dark green. The look of the boat changes when going from shade into bright sun. Stole this idea from another boat builder. One advantage of boat building over rail car building. You get to pick your own color schemes.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, your method of bending the PVC is beyond my capabilities, but I will use your color scheme to enhance it, thank you.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a very interesting kit. The build can be separated ito several different facets so if you are getting bogged down with one, just skip a few pages and move to another. I have skipped, assembled and 'fitted' the basic structures to the deck. As in real sea going vessels the deck is shaped to encourage water run off, fore, aft and center to sides. 
I can move in any direction, back to install the deck planking or forward to the placement and installation of the prop shafts and rudder. The boiler and engine are due to be delivered next week, and I'm sure to put aside what ever I am doing to assemble and test them. 
Thank you to those that have alerted me to boat/ship building sites that offer many suggestions and accessories. I am drawn to a rotating radar mast that would add movement. That added to my plan to use LED's or Grain bulbs to light the fixtures will help it stand out. Thank You


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I think going with twin engines for a twin screw tug is the way to go IMHO. While it does add some complexty to the RC control part with needing twin servos for reversing gear and twin servos for throttles on both engines, it keeps her true to prototype if it was a twin screw tug in real life. With modern Spectrum multi channel radios, and high quality metal geared micro servos, its not the huge problem it was a few years ago. I think tugs are way cool, but I am a warship fan and hope to hunt down one of the Pro Boat semi kit Arleigh Burke destroyers next year. Mike


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, I had already figured out two ways for the R/C using twin engines, but then saw a video of the tug as offered in action. I went back to the original design as it is extremely powerful and very maneuverable as designed. If it were a harbor tug, definitely twin engines and twin controls as they require much more maneuverability. How about building a harbor tug with propeller nozzles like real one's.
EDIT: some of the smallest details take a lot of time to add, each of the Fairleas took almost 1/2 hour. LG


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the size of the Fairleads you used. I had bought the size one size up from yours and yours fits the proportions better. Looking good!


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, thank you, next I am measuring where to install the Scuppers. I need to do these before I install the deck planking. I KNOW that while drilling and routing for the Fairleads and Scuppers I would mar that beautiful decking provided with the kit. All of that will be put on hold as TODAY the boiler and engine are due to be delivered. LG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Which engine and boiler did you get for the model?

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, it was delivered just a couple of hours ago. The boiler is the B3 and the engine is the T3DR. That engine is a work of art. I attached a couple of pics and you can see the mains have oil cups with wicking material. I found a conversation for kg/CM2 to lbs/sq inch and found it is designed to operate at 21 lbs of pressure and the safeties are set to off at 28.5, lower than most of our locomotives. I put something in the pic so you can see the actual size oi it.


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

The T3DR is a really smooth and powerful engine you will be happy with it.

Steve


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Congratulation on the engine!!

The only problem I had with it when I fired her up was keeping the rpm down. Wants to run fast with no load. It has plenty of smooth throttle so it is easy to control.

I'm putting the scuppers in after all of the bulwarks are in. Figure on drilling small holes and filing down to deck height by hand. Shouldn't be a problem just slow.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, we think alike, this morning's progress. I was very careful to install the basic deck at the correct height, so the scuppers came out just where they belong with the water line. The deck planking will bring them even with the bottom of the deck. I did very carefully use a Dremel. My numbers for the Bulwark supports didn't exactly agree with the diagram so I modified them just a bit to accommodate the scuppers i purchased. The inner walls do need to be dressed, but that is why 3M made Bondo. And I can easily see why the engine would run away being made to run on such low pressure.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

For those not familiar with it, attached is the burner, boiler, engine and transmission. The trans converts one engine output to two counter revolving prop shafts. For those that are, that little green bottle of oil which was provided as 'steam oil' seems much thinner than I am used to. Have you used it to any extent, does it protect the engine and do you think I can use Roundhouse steam oil?. ALSO, does anyone know the fitting size for the engine fitting or the pressure gauge fitting? thank you.


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

I just use regular steam oil in my Saito engines, it works fine, I use the Green Velvet lube oil for general lubrication of the other parts of the engine.

I can pull an engine out tonight and using my thread checker card measure the threads of the pressure port. Saito engines are all metric threads.
There is a Saito supplied pressure gauge kit available which has the needed fittings and mounting hardware included, one of the guys from Japan usually has it for sale on Ebay. 
it is not a standard model fitting so sourcing it from somewhere else may be difficult, the Saito pressure would be the easiest path. If you have a lathe then you can make what you need.

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, thank you for your response. The Age of Sail is out of stock of the pressure gauges, I didn't know they were also available on Ebay, I will check there. I had figured if I couldn't find the exact one I would make an adapter and use an Accucraft gauge. Thank you for the steam oil info also. No lathe so I'd have to purchase it.
EDIT, I think I found the size: M7x0.75. it seems others are also looking to adapt gauges to the boiler. Just need to find a site that has the fittings. I do silver solder so I can modify something to fit. Thank you again.
EDIT 2: i found a brass fitting that is just a bit smaller ID, and found that my metric tap & die set has a M7.0.75 tap. I MAY be on my way to making a fitting. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry to say, I tapped a fitting for the M7x0.75 and it doesn't fit past the first thread. So I figure the M7 is correct but the thread is wrong, back to the drawing board. LG


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I would use your favorite steam oil Nick, I use either Roundhouse or Green Velvet steam oil. I use 3 in 1 in the blue bottle(electric motor bearing oil) for the motion work on my steamers. Sounds like the supplied oil might be good for that use till its gone. Can't wait to see this on the water under steam. I hope to build something similar in the coming years. Thanks for posting the build up Nick! Mike


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, It never dawned on me, that the light green oil may just be 'break in' steam oil. Designed for the two initial runs equaling 40 minutes where the speed is kept down to between 1000 to 1500 RPM's. THANK YOU
I prefer Roundhouse oil as my Green Velvet settled out after 1 year on the shelf. It has been posted by a seller, he was told by his supplier that it should be used within 1 year of purchase, settling out is normal, not my words just a quote.
May be quite a while before it is on the water. LG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

I also measured, M7x.75 on one of the fittings I have.

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, I appreciate your taking the time to do that, only thing I can figure is my tap is a cheap set. Also maybe the first couple of threads aren't really that good, so I will grind off a bit of the fitting. With your input, I will keep trying to see what I may have done wrong. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I assembled the running gear on the bed and angled the supports. I took liberties of the support placements so I could have access to the screws. The actual placement of the gear is dependent on making sure the stack is aligned with the rear hole in the deck house. Today I hope to put the bed with the running gear on the back deck and fire it up for the first time. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't get to fire it up today. 
Steve, I did order a tap from MSC to attempt another try at threading that fitting. LG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

I had earlier tried the cheap taps with the HF cheap sets and they were good at gnawing of the metal, but not at cutting threads, might be the issue. 

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, thank you, you have given me more hope at success. LG


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

I'm enjoying the thread.

Another good source of machine tool accessories, one that maintains a large inventory and ships same day or next day is Victor Machinery:

http://www.victornet.com/


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Stack, thank you, I am enjoying the build and posting about it. Thank you for the tip, I will file it so I can retrieve it when necessary. Not all places carry metric stuff. My first place to look is usually McMaster Carr, but this time the m7x0.75 was one that was not on their inventory, unless I didn't look in the right place. 
EDIT, I looked Victor up and the tap I ordered was less in price than I have paid for it. A site well worth making note of. LG


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Nick Jr said:


> Stack, thank you, I am enjoying the build and posting about it. Thank you for the tip, I will file it so I can retrieve it when necessary. Not all places carry metric stuff. My first place to look is usually McMaster Carr, but this time the m7x0.75 was one that was not on their inventory, unless I didn't look in the right place.
> EDIT, I looked Victor up and the tap I ordered was less in price than I have paid for it. A site well worth making note of. LG


Victor Machinery is in Brooklyn.

I live in New York and often I get items from them next day or the day after. I have yet to be disappointed with the quality of any item I have received and so far, no back-orders either.

~ Joe


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a ?? for Steve, Joe or anyone else who has the B3 boiler. I mounted the sludge tank and assembled all of the connections on the diagram. There is a nipple coming from the bottom of the boiler that isn't shown on the instructions. When I connect a tube to it and blow into it the other end comes out of the stack. Can you tell me what it is for? Pics show it up close. Thank You
EDIT: the only thing I can find is a smoke generator which seems to be associated with the Saito Airplane engines. Print states 'engine exhaust'. LG


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

The nipple is a connection for the smoke unit. It's a small oil cooker that takes steam from the boiler to heat oil to it's smoke point and sends the smoke to the bottom of the stack via that nipple.

I have one but haven't hooked it up yet so I can't tell you if it worth the money.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, thank you very much, a closer look at the diagram on P29 does show it, taking steam from the other side of the fitting that the pressure gauge connects to. I made my connections from the Boiler instructions, didn't show it. Somewhere it pointed out 'engine exhaust', so I was really confused. 
Steve, the plug tap is supposed to be delivered today, would really like it before firing it up. LG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

The connection at the end of the boiler is as stated an oil burner, which the engine exhaust can be connected to. I do use a condensate tank in my installations which actually catches most of the oil, so when connected to the oil burner it really does not smoke much. I had previously ported the engine exhaust directly without a condensate tank, but on initial engine start there was too much condensate and would cause trouble with the burner. I will find the starting instructions I had previously posted to the RC Groups Steam forum which may help you.

Steve


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Saito Live Steam Starting Instructions

1. Fill the boiler approximately ¾ full with distilled or filtered rain water.
2. The plug at the front top of the boiler can be used as an overflow indicator, fill boiler until it runs out.
3. Drain the water from the displacement lubricator and refill with genuine steam oil.
4. Ensure the burner valve is closed.
5. Fill the fuel tank with Methyl or denatured alcohol.
6. Lubricate the engine with 30w or similar oil.
7. Ensure the throttle valve is closed.
8. Fill the metal bottle cap with fuel and place under the burner, this is used to preheat the burner and warm the fuel tank to provide pressure for the fuel.
9. Just before the bottle cap runs out of fuel , open the burner valve and the burner should light, it will be a little rough for a few minutes until the burner gets fully heated.
10. Adjust the fuel valve to get a good flame, if you can’t see the flame then adjust so it can be heard but not a loud roar. 
11. Keep an eye on the steam plant and a head of steam should be raised in 4-10 minutes depending on the boiler and burner.
12. I would wait until 10-20 PSI is indicated on the pressure gauge if equipped. If no pressure gauge is present you might start to hear or see steam escaping from around the engine.
13. Crack open the throttle valve, most two cylinder double acting engines will self start; condensate will come out of the engine exhaust. 
14. With some engines it is better to set the engine in forward then reverse to clear the condensate.
15. Do not try to strongly force the engine to turn if it is locked up with condensate, given slight pressure it will clear the condensate and eventually start. Unless the engine is faulty if it is getting steam pressure it will run.
16. Run the engine conservatively at first checking to make sure you do not run the boiler dry before the fuel is exhausted.
17. Keep the RPM low since most model steam engines are intended to run at 1000 RPM or less. This will require running a coarser pitched or larger diameter propeller than an electric motor. 
18. There are other details if things are not working ask a question to the group and it will probably be answered.
19. Have fun Steaming


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, thank you for the instructions. I just had my first run. I had a fire extinguisher and hose at the ready, I was apprehensive since I am not familiar with meth or this type of burner. .
I couldn't see the flame in the cup, and didn't put enough in the first time. Second time it came to life. while it was running I blew the whistle, which locked up the engine, not having your instructions, I did the fwd/rev thing till it cleared, I guess it was water locked. I didn't blow the whistle again. After a 20 min run I shut it down. 
Like I do with my locomotives I attempted to suck the water from the bottom of the oil tank, and only oil came out. There was grunge in the tank that the cylinder exhaust is going to, so It did use some. 
I shut down the burner and let it slowly run out of steam, only then could I really appreciate the beauty of that engine. I wish it were Butane fired, much quiter. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

The M7 tap was delivered, and it made a big difference in the fitting, it fit. I used several fittings I had in the parts drawer that were left over from past projects The engine runs on as little as 12 lbs pressure, and the pressure relief valves do let go at 30. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a catch up on some progress. This is only one small part of the build. This is the Pilot House and the Flying Bridge. LG


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't wish to sidetrack this interesting thread, but it seems to be a place where ship modellers have congregated! I'm downsizing my home and have a ship model kit to give away (pic attached.) PM me if interested. You only pay shipping.


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

If anyone is interested in Pete's offer, Model Slipway has the build manual online at

http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Model Shipways/Rattlesnake/Rattlesnake Manual.pdf


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe Johnson said:


> If anyone is interested in Pete's offer, Model Slipway has the build manual online at
> 
> http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Model Shipways/Rattlesnake/Rattlesnake Manual.pdf


Joe, thanks for the link, but that isn't my kit. They must have updated it over the years - my hull is solid.

Nick - as this is getting complicated, I'll move to the Classifieds. See the photo over there. I'll also check my instructions are still in the box!


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, Joe Johnson is pretty deep into Boat and Ship building, maybe he can direct you to other sites where it may be marketable. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

What I find most interesting is the making of the small components. Each in itself is a minor challenge, put them all together and you have a fine model. This is a set of steps (a kit of wood from Harbor Models) going from the main deck to the 01 level, in itself a minor detail. The handrails is what really gives it substance. They are shaped and soldered from 1mm brass wire. Sorry for the poor pics. thank you.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I started to plank the deck of the 01 level. I started by using the suggested directions. It gave a 'picture frame look' (45' angles) to all the direction changes. That is not what I think a working vessel should look like. FOR ME the straight fore to aft look gave it what I was looking for. Also rubbed a pencil on all the seams to give them more definition. I used the 'Four Butt System. I also marked where the deck beams are to make the spacing for the planks easier. I am really enjoying this part of the build. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

to enhance the deck planking even more I learned on another site to dilute Poly Urethane 25% by volume with Mineral Spirits and give it a light coat, I'm liking the look. With much anticipation I drilled the new decking for the ventilators hoping I would not splinter it. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I know some long term projects have enthusiasm lulls. So far that hasn't happened, I still look forward to each step in the build. Maybe because I am not doing them int he order prescribed in the directions. I am enjoying each individual part of the process and then putting them together to make a whole piece. Enjoy


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Once again I have strayed from the instructions and this time also from the material provided. I was provided lengths of very thin plastic to cut and fashion Life Boat Winches. Knowing how poor I am with plastic, these little h'orderves are actually blocks of wood made to the exact dimensions of the finished product. They do need more smoothing out, but I am so far happy with the look. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Far too soon in the build to be doing this, but between the weather and the 'itch' to see plumes coming from he stack, I was driven.
I am much further on with the building the accessories for the 01 level, but I really wanted to see how hot the real stack got before committing to their installation as everything is really tight. Joe Johnson advised me it wouldn't get over 215'F as it is saturated steam and he is correct as I could always hold the stack in my fingers. And it also removed my fear of the paint on the stack pealing.
I have Emailed him other particulars as he is building the same boat and we have been sharing. Enjoy, I surely am.


----------



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> Far too soon in the build to be doing this, but between the weather and the 'itch' to see plumes coming from he stack, I was driven.
> I am much further on with the building the accessories for the 01 level, but I really wanted to see how hot the real stack got before committing to their installation as everything is really tight. Joe Johnson advised me it wouldn't get over 215'F as it is saturated steam and he is correct as I could always hold the stack in my fingers. And it also removed my fear of the paint on the stack pealing.
> I have Emailed him other particulars as he is building the same boat and we have been sharing. Enjoy, I surely am.


Good job and great to see steam. When I built HMS Vigilant, I constructed the boat equivalent of rollers for live steam locomotives. A wooden box about 6x1x1. I lined it with plastic sheeting and filled it with water. I connected the boat bow and stern with a pull gauge at the rear. Steam-up and it allows you to test operation with a realistic load on the propeller.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

zephyr, your posting and pics over 1 year ago inspired me to purchase this kit, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. It has already given me many hours of pleasure and I am looking forward to many, many more. Keep us posted on your progress. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I have reached a mile stone in the construction pertaining to the stacks. Joe Johnson explained the spring tension on the stack supports and how important that is not only for the real ship but for the model as well. Taking his advice I moved ahead. I used the very stiff line supplied with the kit and used some 26gauge wire I purchased and, well the pic will easily explain what I did. Today I painted the parts as he explained they were coated in tar to help keep off corrosion from the salt water. LIFE IS GOOD


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm still jumping around on the build. I would like to paint the hull, but before that I have to install the exterior running gear. I didn't really depend so much on the suggested jigs in the directions as actual measurements, they just wouldn't stay in place, I can be 'thumbs' at times.
I also didn't like the idea of a one time shot at installing the rudder correctly. I drilled and tapped the hull so the holding piece can be removed for finer adjustments. When I am satisfied with the fit and function I'll make it permanent, remove the screw and shape it to the hull. Yup I'm still enjoying the build. LG
1&2 are the prop shafts with the oil tubes shaped and soldered in place, the large bearing ends will secure the oil seals at the transmission location. I can inject oil into the tubes to keep the shafts lubricated, a nice feature I thought.
3: the shafts, seals and props temporarily in place, also the hull bracket that will fix the rudder in place.
4 the rudder. Life is Good


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Very Nice Nick. Enjoyed following the build. Later RJD


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

RJ, glad you too are enjoying it. I figure we have about 6+ months more fun. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have completed the main deck structure including all the fixtures accept for the masts. I glazed the Pilot House windows. While in the past I have used microscope slides in my locomotives this time I used slide covers. I will never do that again. They are very thin, while that is a good thing made it extremely difficult to make an accurate cut and it would shatter into such small pieces that can barely be seen, and only know where one is after it has impeded itself in my finger. UNLESS someone knows how to cut them and is willing to share.
The marker lights are the item I really like. The marker, running lights and bulbs were gotten from Harbor Models. There will be three clear lamps on the forward mast, and while not on the plan I hope to put one on the Fantail. I am hoping to cut a channel on the back of the fwd mast to some what hide the wires.
I had planned on not securing the pilot house to the main deck structure so I could easily adjust the burner. Looking further in the plans I have to abandon that idea as the fwd mast has guide wires that connect to the pilot house roof behind the flying bridge. That whole structure is taken off to service the boiler and burner. Enjoy


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the heads up on the pilot house. I too was planning on having it removable to get to the burner throttle. Takes mine a few minutes of run time for the burner to settle. I'd already measured for the guides.

Still debating on whether or not to light the thing but found a neat trick about grooving the mast for the wires and the using wood putty to make them disappear.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, I went to Lowes for a wood blade for my Dremel. As you can see the part I dreaded actually turned out to be pretty easy. 
My burner usually takes two cups of meth before it is ready to run on it's own, and I wanted to be able to see the pressure gauge without having to remove the whole deck structure, plans do change.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have once again deviated from the provided plans. I felt that the mast spacer/holder wouldn't really hold to the structure as it was already painted. I have had the experience where epoxy held the part to the paint. When stressed the part came off and only the paint it was stuck to came off with it, and the part had been properly primed. Knowing the guide wires would not only hold it in place, the springs would also add constant stress to this joint. I feel more secure with this arrangement. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I had hoped to wait till I was further along on the build before posting the pics of the Harbor Lamps. They are a works of art and I just couldn't help myself. Best I could with the camera I have and some detail is lost. I only post what I have or actual experience, but the web site has better pics of them, and you may see things you can use on trains, especially the red and green marker lights, come in many sizes. . LG


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very cool. I don't know any of the protocols for the lights, but the masthead lights look cool also.


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Very cool. I don't know any of the protocols for the lights, but the masthead lights look cool also.


Generally, one masthead light when not towing.

If pushing or with a barge "on the hip" or a short tow, then two lights one over the other.

If a long tow - over 200 meters separating the tug and tow, then three lights.

Info here:

Rule 24 - Towing and pushing

I too am enjoying the build, Nick.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Stalktalk, thank you for that info, I still have access and can install a rotating switch so can signal the appropriate operation. Glad you are also enjoying it. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

The pic copied from the Harbor web site is not the ones I used. A close look it appears to be only a housing with a bulb. The attached pics are the one I used, along with a boom lamp from a real war ship. Notice the lens 'carving' to defuse the light from a small source. These are closer to the real thing, first hand knowledge. LG


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, that is why I said the mast ones looked cool ALSO, meaning besides the ones you picked.

Sorry if I caused confusion, just went to the site and looked around.

Greg


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I disagree, the masthead lamps don't have a lens, one is looking at a naked bulb which isn't even close to real never mind cool. If I wanted something like that I would have used the ones included with the kit. thank you.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

For others with Saito kits: I was shorted line used for the rear boom. I found @ ACMoore a 20lb Natural Hemp Cord that to me is just right. Can probably be used in other kits they offer and found in other hobby suppliers. LG.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I did notice the lack of a lens, which was weird. I figured someone would fit a lens, but i was noticing that the lamp was designed to only emit light in a certain arc..


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Any of your nautical lights have whats called a Fresnel lens Nick. This amplifies the light, originally from a whale oil or kerosene burner, then low power electric bulbs. Be it the side navigations lights (red and green) or the mast head and such. ALL have the glass and now plastic Fresnel lens on commercial lighting for ships/boats. Even most better quality lights on pleasure craft like my boat have this type of lense. A bare bulb with no lense to amplify the light, would NOT meet US Coast Guard and other Federal regulations for marine navigation lighting. If you haven't lived around the great lakes or other shipping areas, then you do not know what your talking about. Yes many of the model lamps lack the lense, but the better quality ones do have the ribbed lense to give the proper look to the lamp.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, thank you for the proper name of the lens, did not know that.
Stalktalk: following your posting I installed 3 switches. 1: is the normal running lights. 2: is for the center fwd mast lamp and 3 operates the lower lamp. I will use a simple slide connector for power rather than locking incase I have to lift off the structure in a hurry. The bulbs are rated at 6V but ill last longer if using less. Three AA batteries will be stored under the rear most hatch where the R/C gear will be. As you can see, even at 4V with the Fresnel lens it projects plenty of light. 
The bare Cu wire will stretch between the masts and is a real antenna for the R/C system. Made a brass sleeve to go over the lower part of the fwd mast to hide the screw holding it to the deck house. It will just slide off when the house is lifted so I still have access to the screw for mast adjustment. LG


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Beautiful ship Nick, I have really enjoyed watching you build her. Cannot wait for the videos of her steaming on the water soon


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, thank you and I'm glad you are also enjoying the build. It will be a while before she gets wet. I have several smaller deck accessories to build. Also the hull needs to be smoothed before painting, and I have to wait for warmer weather as I'd like to do that outside. Right now not sure where I will run it. 'zephyra' built a nice test box that I'd really like to try before going into deep water. LG


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Nick
Are you anywhere near southern PA? Cabin Fever Expo is coming up, a fantastic model engineering show, and they setup a large indoor pond to run RC electric and live steam water craft, lots of fun to see

Jerry


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

The local scale boat club does the same in a huge outdoor fountain/reflecting pond in Carmel, IN. Its only about 2 foot deep the whole way across, so its easy to wade in wearing flip/flops to retrieve a stranded vessel. I hope to build a steam tug someday myself. Probably either one of the Caldercraft kits or one of the Dumas kits, with a Saito steam plant. Unless I stumbled upon of the nice old Chedder plants from years ago. Always wanted to build a big tug around thier Proteus slide valve engine plants.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, I have been to that gathering years ago, and had a great time. I won't be ready for Cabin Fever this year, but can always look forward to 2019.
Mike, that is a great idea and I would be very comfortable sailing in a venue where I could wade out and get a model in distress. It sounds like you have a future plan for a build, go for it. . Can you enlighten me or give me a link on the Proteus engine you mentioned? LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, found this, hope it helps in your quest:
Cheddar Proteus steam plant - Stock code 2505 - Station Road Steam
https://www.stationroadsteam.com/cheddar-proteus-steam-plant-stock-code-2505/
Brand new Cheddar Proteus steam plant comprising twin cylinder slide valve engine with tumbler-type reversing and water pump coupled to the gas-fired horizontal boiler. Designed for hulls five feet and longer, the Proteus is the largest of Cheddar's current range. The plant comes with Cheddar's rather clever Automatic ... 
I just noticed above SOLD 2005, just maybe they can put you in touch with others. LG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

The rigging is complete accept for the fwd mast to the bow, that will be done after the deck is planked and the associated equip is installed. It will be configured to be easily disconnected when the deck house is lifted for access to the steam running gear. That finished this portion of the build. The Last PIC: The year is 1965, SA Nick Jr learned about ships rigging hands on. That will be all about this for a while, Thank You Life is Good


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

This is the next complete section. it is the engine cover with hatches. Hatches have port holes with bars. I made a simple little jig to be able to align the bars and make them all the same, I was surprised how well it worked. The hatches are hinged with a bar but with no provisions to keep them centered over the hole. I used washers made from wire insulation sliced thin. In the mean time I installed the Guide wires from the fwd mast to the bow, they are on an open hook so the deck house can still be removed. Also completed the rigging on the lift boom. Still having fun. Thank You


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry to jump, but couldn't attach this to a PM. This is what I was talking about, Thank You Nick jr


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Looks like they may be simulating open grating on the stern of the tug boat, or they may be strips of steel to keep the tow line straight off the stern. As far trip hazards there are so many others on a boat or ship it would not matter.

Steve


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Steve Ciambrone said:


> Looks like they may be simulating open grating on the stern of the tug boat, or they may be strips of steel to keep the tow line straight off the stern. As far trip hazards there are so many others on a boat or ship it would not matter.
> 
> Steve


In the days before wire hawsers, when not in use the hemp rope was coiled up on the stern grate.

Without looking it up, I can think of two reasons for a raised stern grate:

* Drainage
* In the days before hydraulic steering gear, the rudder post & tiller arm would have been located under the grate and it could sweep across the stern under the grate.

Even some few modern tugs, the ones that do not carry towing machines, still maintain a rope deck.

This photo may help:



















Modern tug with towing machine:


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve & Stalktalk, thank you for your responses. NOW IT MAKES SENCE. I was not sure if I would add it to the build, but now with out a doubt. Stacktalk, liking the second pic you posted so much I am going to again stray from the directions and make mine more to reality. I have a lot of cutting to do. I can also see the steering gear under the deck, will try to add something like that. EDIT (printed the pic so I can study the detail even more). This just went from something I wasn't sure I was going to do to a whole new project. Now headed to the craft store for several different size lines. This just gets better and better with the help of others. THANK YOU SO MUCH. Life is Good


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Even in the first photo you can see the cap over the rudder post.

Years ago I built a plank on frame Tug Seguin model and added the grating similar to what you see here:










The wooden "trunks" running fore and aft had the cables within that ran under the deck and up to the pilot house to move the steering quadrant mounted to the rudder post.

Have fun!

~ Joe


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Stalktalk: after printing and seriously looking at the pic, I realized my Bollards are lacking some detail. I got some #6 washers, drilled and pressed them on the the ends, IMHO looks much better. Paint will cover the minor irregularities. LiG


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Those bits are looking good, Nick!

Cleats, Chocks, Bits and Bollards: Securing Your Vessel

It's really easy for a modeler to get drawn in deeper and deeper into adding fine detail.

I started reworking a Chapelon Nord a couple years ago and slowly, as I feel I've finished one small area at a time, I discover more detail to add. It's all good, though. 

Edit: As a young marine electronics technician, I spent a lot of time on tugs, mostly in New York, but elsewhere as well. I would say that I've been aboard a couple hundred tugs though I never really counted them. I have a special fondness for workboats. All but one of the boats I attended to were either Diesel or Diesel electric powered.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

"It's really easy for a modeler to get drawn in deeper and deeper into adding fine detail." I'm finding that out for sure, and it is good. Thank you for your guidance. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

This is the next part of the build: I didn't know what the bar across the beam was until Staktalk advised me it is a 'chaffing bar'. Also shown the painted modified Ballard. In one photo you can see what the directions and pieces at the fantail which represents a Drying Rack. After seeing the pics Stalk posted I am re-doing that assembly to more represent the real thing. Right again, finer detail. LiG


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Looking good, Nick.

For the benefit of others, on a "short tow," the tow line often goes obliquely up toward the bow of the higher towed vessel, but when the line slacks, there is danger of fouling the bits, and/or other items that project from the aft deck. The bar is meant to reduce the likelihood of fouling the tow line. Not all vessels carry such an anti-chafe bar, but in such cases other guides are employed.

On a "long tow," as the tow line slips over the stern, the line points down into the water due to catenary forces. Again, the bar lifts the cable or hawser off the deck, reducing the chance of fouling.










"The curve a hanging flexible wire or chain assumes when supported at its ends and acted upon by a uniform gravitational *force*. The word *catenary* is derived from the Latin word for "chain." In 1669, Jungius disproved Galileo's claim that the curve of a chain hanging under gravity would be a parabola (MacTutor Archive)."

In practice, a long tow looks something like this:










It's important to keep the stern clear.

There is a lot more to running a proper tow than meets the eye. The length of the tow must be frequently adjusted to meet sea state conditions. Also, the tug must be able to release the line quickly if for any reason the tow founders. On occasion, tugs are "tripped" and dragged to the bottom by their tows.

Cheers,

Joe


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

One time as I was leaving the port in San Pedro, and witnessed a tug in tow of a barge with a slack towline. A sailboat chose to make it course between the tug and the barge, it made it through, but I bet the tug crew was cursing. See some real stupid stuff on the water sometimes.

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Stalktalk, thank you for the compliment and for the detailed explanation. 
Steve, I guess the sail boat took 'right of way' to the extreme, yes very stupid. While serving on a service ship we were conducting an emergency towing excersize. the ship was not fitted with an Anti Chafe bar. Despite warnings to stay clear of the line, it whipped and sent a Boatswains Mate over the side. A Liberty launch was dispatched and took him to a hospital in Puerto Rico, don't know the outcome. LiG


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve Ciambrone said:


> See some real stupid stuff on the water sometimes.
> 
> Steve


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

I was going to respond to Steve yesterday, but I hesitated because I didn't want to contribute to the the thread drifting a little off course, pun intended, unless that was OK with you, Nick as I respect that this is your build thread. When I start a thread, I don't mind in the least that a lot of "color" is added. Meandering is OK with me.

Thankfully, the sinking of a recreational vessel when it crosses between a tug and tow is rare, but it does happen and can result in tragedy as was the case for the "Karen E. In Long Island Sound in 1981.

Here is what really happened:

The Cautionary Tale of the Karen E.

There were five people on the 36-foot boat and four died. The guy who lived was the boat-owner.

He lost his wife, daughter and another couple who were out on the water with them.

His side of the story told in his own words as reported by the New York Times just after the incident was mostly false and was repudiated. He tried to blame everyone but himself. Lot's of time and effort was spent by investigators demonstrating that his own incompetence and state of panic had resulted in loss of life.

Most states within the US do not have any licensing requirement and many do not even require a Safe Boating Certificate available after completing a course from either the U.S. Power Squadron or the U.S.C.G. Auxiliary. Unlike driving an automobile, there is only minimum enforcement of "the rules of the road," on the water for recreational boaters.

Imagine what it would be like if we could drive a car or fly a plane without having to pass any sort of minimum competency test?

Edit: I should add that the story of the *Karen E.* has been made part of the curriculum in boating safety classes. I doubt that anyone who takes a safe boating course will ever approach a tug while it is towing astern.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Stalktalk, thread drifting is fine with me, I have even added to it once or twice. YOUR contributions are always informative and appreciated. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I liked one of the pics posted by Stalk talk and tried to emulate as much as possible. The drying rack was easy and really enhanced the boat. I also wanted to include some of the on deck steering details. I used bottle caps that vaguely resemble the shapes under the rack. Found some very nice scale 'line' at a craft store. With more patience than I thought I had, and using a tooth pic for a Marlin Spike, i was able to make eye splices in the white and brown line that will ultimately be faked down on deck and grace the drying deck. Still havin' fun. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

To Date: this is just a test fit as I still need to finish the hull before making it permanent. Placement of the running gear is correct when the boiler exhaust lines up with the aft stack.Wasn't happy with the stack ending 20mm below and all that wet steam gathering below deck so I extended it. I was glad to find the flat ends milled on the transmission shafts and joining attachments had enough lateral adjustment so I had some 10mm to play with. I am happy with the way it all fits together. LiG


----------



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> I liked one of the pics posted by Stalk talk and tried to emulate as much as possible. The drying rack was easy and really enhanced the boat. I also wanted to include some of the on deck steering details. I used bottle caps that vaguely resemble the shapes under the rack. Found some very nice scale 'line' at a craft store. With more patience than I thought I had, and using a tooth pic for a Marlin Spike, i was able to make eye splices in the white and brown line that will ultimately be faked down on deck and grace the drying deck. Still havin' fun. LiG


Nice job on the splice! You have more patience than I do. I just spliced some dock lines for my 1:1 scale boat and it took forever to get them looking good. 

Robert


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert, thank you for the compliment. Time (age) has forced a trade, patience replaced dexterity. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Being satisfied with the position of the propulsion gear I adhered wood blocks to the hull so I could put it back in the exact location and use Epoxy to permanently secure. The temp blocks can be easily removed. In the future if I want to remove the gear I can just remove the 5 screws holding the platform to the strips that are adhered to the hull.
Sanded the hull to prepare for painting. Not knowing how or where to base the the water line, I leveled the keel and went from there. The laser level is marking where the lower color will be and marks the water line. A black is applied above that. I haven't started to spray, going to wait and see if those that have more experience will advise me. Thank You


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

The best way I found to check the water line was to pick spots along the hull and make sure the water line was the same distance from the gunnels on opposite sides of the boat at each point. The biggest problem I had was insuring the boat was level side to side when I drew the water line. Surprising how much one degree of list can move the water line. 

Like the laser idea. I used the old fashion method of a machinist square with a pencil glued to it with the boat sitting on the keel. Too easy using that method to bump the boat and knock the level off..


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe appreciate your input as always. This method also has it variables. Don't know if you noticed that the hull casting in the kit is actually slightly twisted, or the installation of the deck may have caused that on my boat. Level port to starboard at the bow first quarter is slightly different at the aft quarter. I have compensated for that and am masking it, with reservations as I go along. Also, decided not to use lacquer based paint as from what I have seen on the net could attack the FRP. Spoke with Rustolium tech support among others, and was advised that what ever paint I used, give ti at least a 14 day curing period before applying the lacquer clear coat. Still haven't started to spray, allowing for more input before I do. Life is Good


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

On one of the boat sites I follow one guy recommended sanding all of the gel coat off before painting. I didn't go that far but I did leave the surface a bit tougher than normal before spray painting. On one small spot on the rub rail I missed some thing on the top and a 1/4 inch long sliced popped off a week later. 

The paint will also be sensitive to any knocks for awhile. I'm holding off on my final sets of clear coat until I finish construction.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

yesterday I took it outside so I could use the compressor to blow it off. I did give it a good sanding with 600 paper, got all the gloss off. I was lucky as my hull had no irregularities that needed to be filled. This morning gave it several coats of the below water line red, it is now curing. It is also my first attempt at painting anything this big. and as we all know the camera can hide small goofs, but over all I am happy with it so far. The color is actually named Wine so more burgundy than the pic shows. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

The hull was painted indoors. This morning I brought it out in the day light and saw two areas where there was an over spray run. Using 600 paper brought the high part down and gave the whole hull two more coats. Now it looks good in the sunshine.
My next paint part will be the area above the red, which is black. Having never painted two colors on the same surface I don't know how to make a crisp and yet smooth line of the colors. Any suggestions or directions where I can find instructions will be appreciated. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I once again wandered from the directions. There is a whistle provided. It is connected to the valve that controls the steam to the engine and is designed to direct steam to the whistle when the throttle is beyond fully opened. While it makes a nice sound the engine is revving way too high for my liking. I decided to tap off another port of the boiler and install a whistle valve, which would also require another servo and I can activate the whistle without effecting the vessel speed. Ordered a full whistle and valve from PM Research, who BTW are great people and will answer and explain, far beyond my understanding. Very glad I ordered the valve with the whistle instead of just the valve as there is so much more than just bringing steam or air to the opening on a pipe to make the sound. Other more 'in tuned' hopefully will chime in. Anyway, using the whistle openings provided with the assembly and making a Whistle Bell I was able to produce a very nice sound. Another great learning experience for me. As you can see the Bell does need some refining. Life is Good


----------



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> The hull was painted indoors. This morning I brought it out in the day light and saw two areas where there was an over spray run. Using 600 paper brought the high part down and gave the whole hull two more coats. Now it looks good in the sunshine.
> My next paint part will be the area above the red, which is black. Having never painted two colors on the same surface I don't know how to make a crisp and yet smooth line of the colors. Any suggestions or directions where I can find instructions will be appreciated. LiG


I took a very simple approach - I first painted the entire hull black and then masked off for the under water section. This actually mirrors real life where the anti-fouling paint is applied many times over the life of the boat building up a layer that stands proud of the underlying hull color.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert, sure wish I had your understanding of proper painting technique earlier. I have made a little progress. Taking the advice of Sean I purchased the Frog tape. I found it much easier to use than the old blue masking i have been using forever. The tape is translucent so I can easily see where it is really stuck, and the manufacturer says it can be easily removed even if left on over 24 hours, we'll see. Also found a source of sunlight that I carry every morning when I walk Ms Maizey, my small LED B & H flash light with the beam opened up all the way. Again drifting from the directions, I decided to go with Dark Grey instead of black for the upper hull, I think it will show the detail better. So far painted the upper bulwark and when that cures I'll flip it over and paint the remaining hull. Life is Good


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Took me 4 separate maskings to get the hull like this. With my finger I can feel a sharp difference at the Red/Grey line, that I hope to remove with 1500 paper. Also going to use the same to try to correct my error in properly covering a couple of areas. I still haven't applied the clear lacquer coat. I'm going to wait longer for the cure than the manufacturer recommends, I'll hate myself if it wrinkled after all this. Again, I do like the Frog tape.
As you can see comparing these with previous pics, and drifting from the directions, I've made the rudder removable.
I also see where I have to touch up the Starboard propeller shaft support bracket.


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

*Saito Neptune*

The Saito Neptune with the TD3R engine and B3 boiler works very well and generates a surprising amount of thrust. As an inexperienced modeler, I found the kit quite tough but fun and interesting to build.


----------



## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

https://www.rcgroups.com/steam-boats-656 Don't want to hijack this thread just pointing to another steamboat website with beautiful builds!
Manfred


----------



## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

CGJ,
The vessel is cool [reminds me of my 'yout'], but the carpet and the hearth are elegant.
KO-5


----------



## se38005 (Oct 18, 2010)

Looks great CGJ


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

CBJ, looks beautiful. I have now clear coated and am ready to apply the decals. I see there are several that have measurements to put on the hull. Pic provided with the kit shows one set on the bow as you have, but there are several others. Any advice you can offer will be appreciated. 
lotsasteam, I would like to build another one when I finish this one, will look there for another one. thank you.
Life is Good


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Just learned something new. While trying to get familiar with the markings as none were provided with the kit. Cut an unmarked piece of the card supplied, placed it in water and nothing happened. What I thought were decals appear to be  peal and stick labels. I am not familiar with them as I have never used them before. I'd be grateful hearing from anyone with experience with them. They are much thicker than what I am used to with decals and don't know if they need some sort of softening medium as decals do. Thank You. LiG .


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Controlling 2 motors at the same time to effect maneuvering is pretty impressive, would like to see that in action.
> 
> Greg 998


Do it all the time when I am docking my (big) boat.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Since I am considering building another boat. I would like it to also be steam powered and probably from the same manufacturer. I cut the base plate of the running gear so the burner, boiler and engine can be lifted out leaving the transmission in place as the others offered all are single prop. The angled timbers will remain adhered to the hull. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, Glad you brought it up. I had already planned and mapped out servos and engines to do the individual control on each prop. Here is why I didn't. Following was posted by Joe Johnson page 3:

"Modern tugs have amazing maneuverability but since this is a model of a 1930's ocean salvage tug all you worry about is raw horse power and sea keeping ability". 

That made more sense. If I were building a Harbor Tug, I would have gone with what I had configured. Life is Good


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Nick, 
This is the first model I have built in 30 years. I have tons of advice of what not to do and several somewhat funny stories that detail them. So please take any of my comments or suggestions with a grain of salt. First of all I used laquer paint and I clear coated the hull first. Then I trimmed the decals as close as possible with scissors, then applied to the hull. Keep a credit card handy to work out any bubbles. Afterwards I used a brush to apply clearcoat over the decals. Note: the decals are thick and the edges will show as it is not a smooth transition from hull to decal.


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Nick,
I see your oil separator in the pic, How are you mounting that in the boat? I did not seem to have room to access mine so I had to create a separate hatch in my deck. Just curious


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

To be honest, I just looked very carefully at the photo on the box to find most decal locations


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

CGJ, thank you for your response. I checked the web and saw many suggestions of how to deal with the markers provided, and none worked. Your explanation of what you did really answered my ??. I took another way around it. Not liking how thick they are I sent Stan Cederleaf, his work is excellent, a scan of the sheet provided and he is making Decals like I am used to using. I assume you are referring to the drain tank. I made a little bracket and mounted it to the base plate, attached 2 pics. Feel free to share any experiences. LiG


----------



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

CGJ said:


> Nick,
> I see your oil separator in the pic, How are you mounting that in the boat? I did not seem to have room to access mine so I had to create a separate hatch in my deck. Just curious


I have an oil separator on Vigilant mounted to the side of the boiler. I do wonder at how useful this is - it seems to fill with condensate pretty quickly which then gets in the way of the steam. Is there a downside to venting up the stack and bypassing the separator all together?

Robert


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

zephyra said:


> I have an oil separator on Vigilant mounted to the side of the boiler. I do wonder at how useful this is - it seems to fill with condensate pretty quickly which then gets in the way of the steam. Is there a downside to venting up the stack and bypassing the separator all together?
> 
> Robert


You probably need a bigger oil separator/condensate tank, the down side to not having one is the top of your boat might look like it was attacked by sea gulls with big blotches of oil. I added one to my boat because after an initial run the boat looked horrible. Also it keeps the oil out of the lake or pond your running the boat in which is a big plus for continued use.

Steve


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Looks very nice, and you are able to get it to fit in the boat and still be able to get the top off to empty it? 

I could not find the Saito condenser/drain tank so I had to have another one made for me and perhaps the size of mine is what the problem was.

BTW, if you have not already, make sure your decking is water-tight all around. I ran my boat two weeks ago in about 15 gusting to 20mph winds. The Neptune laughed at such puny wind and made excellent headway. It did take splashes over the bow and my non-watertight spots (around the new condensor hatch) took on a good bit of water


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert, I got the largest tank Saito offered, and after a 30 minute run I am able to suck out about 75mls of water, still plenty of room left. 
CGJ. I use a syringe with a long snout to empty the tank, it is tight getting my fingers down there to take the top off so I use a very long nose pliers with a rubber bank around the handles holding them closed. The hatches and structures on deck have a lip all around, and I will also coat the deck and the 'lips' with the Polyurethane. I used a diluted solution of 75% poly and 25% mineral spirits on the deck over the pilot house and will mix more for the main deck. Where did you locate the hatch for the tank, and I'm glad to hear they are very seaworthy. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

CGJ, had an Idea that I am going to implement and it may help you with the plug on the drain tank. I am going to solder a small nut to the cap and using a nut driver with a dab of grease in the head to loosen and lift it out. Another idea is to cut a slot in the plug and use a spreading screwdriver to lift it out. Just thoughts at this time, sure others will come up with ideas. LiG
EDIT: slept on it a bit, may use JB Weld to adhere a ferrous nut to the cap so in case, or when, i drop it I can use a magnet to get it back out. LiG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

For my own tanks I build, I install a brass tube that goes to the bottom of the tank and then extend the tube to where access is available. I cut the brass tube that will be inside the tank at a 45 degree angle and then the tube can be on the bottom of the tank and still be able to suck up the water and oil.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, that's a great idea. The tanks offered by Saito are brass so that can be done with them also. The JB is hardening right now, but never too late to make that conversation, and aids removing the spent oil and water is much easier. Did you cap it in some way to keep the pressure from blowing out the water/oil mixture?
Pic please. THANK YOU. LiG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Forgot to mention since the tank was in a hull with a superstructure I just made a cap with a short length of silicone tubing approx. 1" then stuck a small brass rod 1/2" long in it to plug the end. Simple and cheap. 

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is the finished cap for the drain tank, I also added a piece of ferrous metal to the bottom to aid in picking it up. BUT, I liked Steve's idea much better. After I apply the decals, which are to arrive today, I will slide the running gear back into the hull and take measurements. Hoping to drill a hole in the top of the tank, insert a piece of copper tuning to the bottom, with an angled cut as Steve suggested and solder in place. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Decals are on, and I can't say enough about Stan's work. He had to do some re-configure work. The depth markers are very small, but crisp. I'm very happy with them. Life is Good


----------



## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Looking good, Nick!


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Stack Talk, the coudos go to Stan, I just followed his directions to the letter. I have enough decals left to do another boat. Anyone interested send me a PM and I'll post them to you. Life is Good


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

*Hatch*

I installed a hinged hatch in the deck. It has trim pieces that clean it up when closed


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Very nice! blends in much better than factory decals


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

CGJ, I see you have a connection to the bottom of the boiler which instructions state is for the smoke attachment. Do you have that option and how do you like it?? LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Made a 90' fitting for the connection from the tank to the stack. Cut an angle on the bottom of the tube that is inserted into the tank then soldered it in place. As Steve did I added a short piece of tubing with a screw to close it. Now I just have to remove the screw, insert the syringe and suck out the water/oil mixture. 
CGJ, is it too late to do the mod, seal up the deck? LiG


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

*Smoker*

Yes, I absolutely love the smoker. Attached is a picture of it in action. It is controlled by a valve so can control the level of smoke that comes out. This pic has it on a very low level. Fill the smoke tank and it generally lasts as long as the fuel. The smoke gets a lot of positive on-looker comments. I am using the Saito smoker that you can see online at various places.


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Well I wish I had seen these posts when I built the ship! Really this is the only blog I have seen on this model and it would have been most helpful when I was building. No, its not to late and I can repair and rework the hatch and probably will do so at some future point. Have started a new boat model and I am unlikely to work on the Neptune, other than minor repair work until the new boat is finished. BTW... I am really enjoying watching your progress!


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

CGJ, the smoke attachment is really impressive, even on the low level. Sent you a PM. LiG


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Turn the valve up and it will generate a huge amount of dense white smoke. Ever so often, when the boat get's rocked by a wave, an extra amount of the smoke liquid enters the boiler and a sort of mushroom cloud will occur. While not realistic in any manner, I find it highly entertaining. The smoke also interacts nicely with the steam whistle. Keep the valve slightly open and the effect is more like the picture I enclosed earlier


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

CGJ, You've got me curious about the smoker device., but more curious about the whistle. Did you find when activating the whistle as kit provided the tug accelerates? I haven't run it in water, only on a stand so far and when I advanced the throttle to activate the whistle the little engine just raced wildly out of control. Your experience with that is appreciated. LiG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

My experience is with boats similarly equipped, you will get some acceleration while underway but if the whistle blow is kept short it is not an issue, but if your trying to dock the boat that would not be a good time to blow the whistle. With a load on the engine (propeller in water) the engine will not race too quickly. The throttle/whistle valve may have, well actually was designed a long time ago, with the intent of running the boats on smaller radio sets with limited channels.

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, I thought about the water drag on the Props but didn't think it would add that much resistance to the engine, I guess I was wrong. Learning from your experience I will seriously consider disassembling the 'Rube' device I put together and go back to the original design. Accept for the actual whistle, I do like the sound from the one I got from PM. I appreciate your advice or any more you have for me. LiG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Steam Boats require different propellers than electric powered boats, most model boat propellers are designed for direct drive electric motors, which normally have low pitch propellers allowing the electric motor to run faster and in its normal power RPM range. Steam boats are low RPM and run better with high pitched propellers and the high pitched propeller can take advantage of the high torque low RPM of a steam engine. I have found the Brass propellers from Rivabo work really well, the pitch is not identified but adjustment can be done according to diameter and the number of blades. Saito and others have similar propeller designs. Low pitch propellers are pretty useless for steam engines, the engine would be screaming and the boat moving very slowly in the water. Water does provide a significant load for the engine, it does reduce some when running underway but at the slow speeds for steam boats its insignificant. My discussions above are in regards to the typical scale steam boats low speed and such. There are exceptions to the above discussion for flash steam and higher speed engines.

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, I very much appreciate your explanation of the different propellers. I'll be able to see the differences in props soon as I have an electric Harbor Tug on order. LiG


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Nick,

The boat when completed and ballasted and loaded with fuel and water is very heavy (about 21 lbs). So when you accellerate the throttle, you see a lot of turbulence in the water aft, but it takes a little bit to actually pick up speed due to the mass. So thrust is steady and powerful, just not instantaneous. So going from half throttle to steam whistle activation does not materially show in the maneuvering of the vessel unless you are doing a long blast, versus a peep.. peep kind of whistle. That said, I find that I am usually driving it at max speed, just shy of whistle activation. When the B3 boiler is really going, it often is still throwing off some steam through the blow off valves. It's a little tricky getting the burner valve at the right spot. You have probably noticed by now that the burner intensity increases, the hotter the burner gets. Subsequently, I have not noticed any difference in speed when the smoker is on, or between max speed without whistle and when whistle is activated. Hope this helps.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

CGJ, thank you for sharing your experience. I have noticed that the burner just keeps getting hotter and hotter. I have yet to experience actually running in water, probably still about a month in my future. I am looking forward to that. Any other experience will be appreciated. LiG


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

CGJ 

How much ballast did she take? I will need to be ordering in a couple of months.


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

The Saito burners really roar when the warm up, they can be turned way down before launching the boat and they may still get stronger and need to be turned down again. They can be set so the safety valves are not lifting so a long run can be achieved.

Steve


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Took close to 2 lbs but I did not weigh them. Needs ballast in the bow to keep it level and enough to keep the props fully submerged. I tested in the bathtub, but in the field I found the props were not submerging in the water. Minor tale of caution, If you add ballast to the bow, make sure the ballast does not interfere with moving your burner in and out of the restraining clips (like I did).


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

So, your bound to float the boat in some sort of tub of water to install the ballast, when you do, run the boat but only connect the pressure valve of the burner to the exhaust and leave boiler pop off valves uncovered. Run the boat through a whole 120 ml of fuel. You then can get a good idea of where to set the fuel valve for a long run, by seeing how much steam escapes once it gets very hot. There is generally a happy spot on the valve that is reasonable for the early part of the run till the end when the burner runs super hot.


----------



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve Ciambrone said:


> The Saito burners really roar when the warm up, they can be turned way down before launching the boat and they may still get stronger and need to be turned down again. They can be set so the safety valves are not lifting so a long run can be achieved.
> 
> Steve


Have you thought of using an automatic steam pressure regulator for the gas supply. This a valve that is activated by steam pressure and can be used to control gas flow. It takes a lot of fiddling to get it set up correctly but does a good job - the key is to make sure it is set such that the burner remains just alight as the safeties blow.

Robert


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

zephyra said:


> Have you thought of using an automatic steam pressure regulator for the gas supply. This a valve that is activated by steam pressure and can be used to control gas flow. It takes a lot of fiddling to get it set up correctly but does a good job - the key is to make sure it is set such that the burner remains just alight as the safeties blow.
> 
> Robert


The Saito burner is not a gas fueled system, it is alcohol that is in a vaporizing burner. It is like a very old blow torch. The burner is first preheated with a small cup of alcohol then when warm the fuel valve can be opened, it spurts a bit and is very weak at first until it gets hot, then it is like a blow torch, the hotter it gets the more pressure is generated inside the tank and more fuel flow, then higher heat output.

I have not found a sweet spot method, since the output can vary so much during a run, once into the run 5 min or so then the heat is stabilized and the burner turned down to a mild flame and little noise, then it runs well through out the run of the boat.

Warning in a closed boat always run a tube to vent the burner relief valve to the outside of the boat, the escaping fuel will be ignited inside the boat, the boat will then have smoke coming out of it where it is not wanted. No need to ask me how I know this.

An automatic system for this burner would need to be developed, or just simply change it over to gas, (butane or propane) burner.

Steve

Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

CJG, I will take your advice on the burner test to see about where the sweet spot is. 
And Steve, you are right, it does remind me of a very old torch that my father had, just kept increasing the flow, flame and heat. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I drifted from the actual boat build. Having learned the hard way what simple household dust can do to a model, that may have taken months or more to build, I decided to be pro-active and make a cover for my Tug. Local big box store and had 3/16" acrylic cut to my dimensions. Only after I started to work the project a couple of days later did I see the cuts left a lot to be desired. I couldn't use the solvent weld products that I have in the past. After trying several adhesives on scraps I found a fish tank adhesive that was better than any others I tried. I will keep the tape on for a while longer to make sure it has plenty of time to cure. LiG


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Was the problems with the cuts that they were not accurate, or the finish on the cut?

Greg


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

It was brought to my attention that I forgot to include the product I did use for the adhesive, sorry. LiG


----------



## CGJ (Mar 9, 2018)

Steve,

It sure is important to vent the burner's relief valve. Also it's best to not ask me as well why I know this.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Securing the anchors be it for a little while. I have broken one of my basic rules: not starting another project while one is in progress, and I have. The one I am keeping is: not to do something just to get it done. I hope to resume in the near future and at that time to plank the main deck, which I will take my time and enjoy each plank. Thank You.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Back to the Salvage Tug: Started the main deck planking, this is a part of the build that I really enjoy. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

For those familiar with 'The Four Butt Shift' system of deck planking can see where I made a mistake. No fun pulling the planks up, but I corrected that today. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

In the hope of not making the same mistake and having to pull up deck planks, instead of keeping progress notes, I am marking the base deck with the rib letter and plank number. Also going down the side I'm using the provided strips in the full length scoring and marking the plank lengths. LiG
EDIT: the second pic shows the area where the battery, receiver and servo's will be placed, can just see the arm that controls the rudder. You can also see the small red wire that goes to the top most antenna wire for the R/C and the bigger red wire to power the mast and marker lights.


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad to see you working on your boat again

I'm on doing the rigging and going slowly and steadily


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, thank you. I imagine you have also made progress on yours also, Please post some pics. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Finished the main deck planking. The kit doesn't say what kind of wood it is, but plenty of it is provided. Smoothed the deck of minor irregularities and gave it a coat of satin polyurethane diluted to 70% with mineral spirits. After drying gave the deck a rub with 1000 grit, a good vacuuming to get all the dust from between plank seams. Another coat of the poly. I am very happy with the results. Next is the receiver, servos and battery installation. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I realized I forgot about the small steps to the drying deck. As you can see as in other places where there wasn't much joining area I used straight pins to give the adhesive additional support. Drifting once again from the procedure I noticed there weren't provisions for handrails, so for crew safety I fashioned some for these and the other small steps near the engine compartment. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Made the hand rails for the amid ship steps. Slightly different profile, altered the ones on the drying deck to match. I like this look a bit better. Also, going to modify the rails on the drying deck to make them removable so they don't interfere with towing. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

It was suggested on another forum that since I put hand rails on the steps, I now needed them on the sides of the raised deck. First I wanted to continue the brown boarder so it matched the decking above. Made a small form so I could size things up for fitting. These are small enough so I may be able to fully assemble and paint them before installing them. Found stanchions @ Harbor Models that needed a slight mod to match to the ones that came with the kit. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Before the addition of the railings that part of the boat just faded as the eye mainly went to the main deck structure. They bring out the detail on that part of the boat. LiG


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

The details make the model stand out. Good job.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Nick Jr said:


> Before the addition of the railings that part of the boat just faded as the eye mainly went to the main deck structure. They bring out the detail on that part of the boat. LiG





I don't think the hand rails on the vertical ladders are functional. Out that far they would make a better cage than hand hold. I would extend the ladder side frames up as pipes to be the hand rails.
Just my thoughts as a ladder climber.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Winn, yes they do, thank you.
John, From several years at sea I can tell you that the handrails on vertical ladders are functional, more for downward movement, hold the rails and just slide down, much faster getting to battle stations. All the hand rails for the ladders do reach to the upper handrails to facilitate that. Any rail that you can grab onto a rolling deck is better than just flailing around and possibly being washed over board. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Started the installation of the receiver and servos. I got a very strong servo, 9.6kg/cm (133.32oz in) for the throttle as the valve is located above the boiler and was fairly hard to operate while the it was generating steam. Tested the operation using 20lbs of air pressure to make sure I had the full throw of the valve. After the other two servos are installed I'll test it on steam. Merry Christmas to all. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Completed the receiver/servo installation. I still need to test the battery life. While doing that I slightly modified the frame work above the drain tank to make removal and installation of the boiler platform easier. LiG


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice to have so much room to play with!


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, it is a well designed model. My next test will to make sure the uppermost antenna is really connected to the receiver and the distance it will receive. Then unless I get side tracked for another detail it's time to balance and trim the boat with weights. It will just fit in the bath tub so I can do that indoors. LiG


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

The newer radios like the ones you have come with very short antennas and very long ranges. On mine I just dropped a hole in the hatch cover and disguised it with a short stack just long enough to hold a styrene tube. When I run I just stick the tube in the in the stack and run the antenna wire up the tube. That way I avoid adding any extra contacts in the antenna leads.


I'll try to post a picture today.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, thank you, I'd be interested in seeing that. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe sent the pics directly with permission to post them. You can also see the excellent deck planking he has done with the outline of the hatches as described on the procedure. He sent me links to learn about the Butt system of deck planking. System would only allow me to post 1 pic, if i tried to add it would delete the previous one, but I think this one best explains it. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Small addition: The bulbs are rated for 6v and advertised as having a 5K hour life. Dropped it down to 5v using diodes so they may be less likely to pop on initial start up. Lights will mostly likely be used for display but are still visible in bright light. LiG


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I found a weight I removed from an old Aristo track cleaning car that I transformed into a Rail Broom, it weighs 240gm. Instructions didn't say to but I added 400ml of water to the boiler. 1ml of water weighs 1gm so will make a difference. The strips added 784gm so the total metal weights is 1024. I was surprised the weight needed to be that far forward to get "lateral inclination". Pics of the water line are with will all running gear re-installed. 
Going back I used a screw in the keel plate so the rudder could be removed if necessary, and I'm glad I did. Had to apply some epoxy to the inner bottom of the keel to seal a tiny weep I caused. I was tempted to add alcohol and boil some water, didn't.
I just learned that different receivers are rated for different distances. Will be very important with a boat that can just wander off where as a train is mostly predictable where it will go. Any advice in that area will be appreciated. LiG


----------



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> I found a weight I removed from an old Aristo track cleaning car that I transformed into a Rail Broom, it weighs 240gm. Instructions didn't say to but I added 400ml of water to the boiler. 1ml of water weighs 1gm so will make a difference. The strips added 784gm so the total metal weights is 1024. I was surprised the weight needed to be that far forward to get "lateral inclination". Pics of the water line are with will all running gear re-installed.
> Going back I used a screw in the keel plate so the rudder could be removed if necessary, and I'm glad I did. Had to apply some epoxy to the inner bottom of the keel to seal a tiny weep I caused. I was tempted to add alcohol and boil some water, didn't.
> I just learned that different receivers are rated for different distances. Will be very important with a boat that can just wander off where as a train is mostly predictable where it will go. Any advice in that area will be appreciated. LiG


Nick, I use a spektrum system and have tested the range out to 500 yards and it still works well even without an external antenna.

One of the things you might consider is building a custom testing tank. This allows you to fire the thing up somewhere more 'home friendly' than the bath tub. I built one from perspex (TAP Plastics) and it is allows me to run my boat on the workshop bench - a bit like using rollers for live steam. The perspex also gives you a side on view of what is happening under the water.

I am working on a new power plant for HMS Vigilant - will post here when I make progress.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

zephyra: for testing my barge I copied the pool that you posted with your boat being steamed for test. I had hoped to use it again testing the tug and using a submerged mirror to watch the props. 500 yds is about 1/3 mile, should be good enough especially using the long wire antenna at the top of the masts. Thank You. LiG


----------



## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Radio range is more important with model airplanes that can crash. A model boat will just be a spec on the water at the max range of your radio, you should be fine. But with model boating find a small pond free of full size boats that will remain calm, can't control the wind but in open water or in a river with current your boat can be lost quite quickly, so best to avoid them entirely.


Steve


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, thank you for the advice. I have also been advised to bring a fishing pole, if it is close enough possibly cast out and hook it. I'm sure no one wants to loose a model they worked so hard to build. I understand there are drones that have a device that returns it to where it was launched, interesting. LiG


----------

