# USA, Aristo, vs. LGB turnout



## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

Hello!

Can anyone give me the difference in *dimensions* between the Aristo 30310, USA 81205, and the LGB? I am building a new layout and the USA Trains components are not in AnyRail 4 database. I understand there are various issues with motors, so will leave that for another thread.

Thanks!

--Chris


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Chris, you will have to specify what LGB turn out you are looking at.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

must be talking 18000 

Greg


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

4 ft. turnout in either brand. Are they a 1:1 swap out or will one leave a gap or another need to be trimmed? Would road bed from Aristo fit another brand for example or have to get road bed same brand as turnout? I originally was thinking Aristo and I have already purchased Aristo track for the layout I am dismantling to build this one. I do however like the looks of the USA Trains turnout, but would need to find wiring diagram if it isn't included to connect to Massoth.

--Chris


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

I'm new to G-Scale and new to model railroading. If I am asking something obvious, sorry...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nope good question... it might take a while to get the data you want. 

Not to put a damper on your design, but those turnouts won't handle many of the more modern locos. If you can design something larger (more gradual diverging route) you will be much happier in the long run. 

Try for nothing less than 8' diameter track and turnouts, 10' and most everything will run through them. 

Regards, Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The turnout on the USA 81205 has a 4' diameter curve. This is the same as the LGB R1 curves and switches. They are suitable for starter sets with engines that have two driving axles. Larger engines with 3 or more driving axles might run on them but in the long run they will give you problems.

LGB has two other sizes of switches:

R3 (16000 series) and R5 (18000 series).

The 16000 curves are 8' in diameter and the 18000 curves are about 16' in diameter.


Aristo has 4' and 10' diameter curves on some of their switches. 


USA and Aristo have #6 switches. I can't tell you what the divergence is in those switches, as I don't have any of them.

I have LGB 18000 switches in my layout and I an very happy with them.  All of my engines and cars are also pleased with those switches, unlike the AristoCraft 10' diameter switches.

Chuck


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Unless you only have a very tiny space to work with for a railroad, like 5x10 feet, and plan to run nothing but 
0-4-0 steam engines or small industrial diesel switchers, 
do not even consider using 4-foot diameter turnouts! 
I promise, you will absolutely live to regret it.. 
Consider 8-foot diameter curves and turnouts the absolute minimum..(and always go larger, if you can) 
and even that will be tight for larger diesels and steam engines.. 
simply ignore the very existence of 4-foot diameter curves and turnouts..put them right out of your mind!  

Some people can get away with the very tight curves..but they either *want* to use them, 
(industrial "critter" modelers and the like) 
or are forced to use them due to extreme space constraints.. 

So, we need to know Chris!  
what do you like to model? 
what do you plan to model? 
and how much space do you have for a railroad? 

Scot


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

I am working in a very confined space. I am also making a modular layout that can be broken down and moved from the basement to the suspend in our front foyer for a holiday display. So it has to fit the size contraints of the foyer. The layout will be at the floor level of the second floor and go through the railing to circle the perimeter of our foyer. I removed the section that wold have passed over the stairs, putting it back would allow for use of some larger curves, but increases tecnical difficulty of set up/take down. I have the layout in a post in the Beginner's Forum. My browswer is acting funny and keeps closing window when I try to add image to this thread. I will try posting it here in separate window. I appreciate any assitance on using larger curves.

--Chris


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

The green lines indicated where the walls are, stairs being at the bottom going up as you go left. The orange lines indicate where the railing is located. The blue lines are where each section will separate. Reverse section has been cancelled. To clear the average persons head any cross over the stairs would have to be within 4-5 of the bump out in green wall at teh bottom. I don't have much experience designing layouts.

Scale each square 1'


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I use 4 foot only indoors and am able to run LGB moguls, Bachmann Annie, Aristo FA units with no issues. I run in forward and reverse with hook and loop couplers on all of these, and through both sides of R1 switches!! Make sure heaviest cars ar directly behing engines, lighter cars to rear of train. All my rolling stock has metal wheels and double hook and loops. 

Outdoors I do have 8 foot minimum and run larger locos. 

Only LGB loco that does not like 4 foot is the Genesis as it derails the first car behind it on the curve.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

On another note about the Large USA switch, it is 36 inches, real length, not a metric equivalent!!


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

I would prefer a layout using 4' radius curves. Wanted originally to run Pullman cars, being from Chicago originally. Also making it interesting enough so it doesn't just become a holiday display. Suggestions?

This uses all 4' radius curves but is a start.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The AristoCraft heavyweight passenger cars will run on 4' radius curves, but there will be a lot of overhang. If you want streamliners (pullman) look into the original AristCraft streamliners. They were shorter than the current versions available from either USAtrains or Aristo Craft. The shorter ones will easily handle your 4' radius curves. I'm not sure about the newer longer ones. The longer ones will navigate the 5'radius curves on my layout, but there is a lot of overhang.

Chuck


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

Posted By chuck n on 09 Jan 2012 02:04 PM 
The AristoCraft heavyweight passenger cars will run on 4' radius curves, but there will be a lot of overhang. If you want streamliners (pullman) look into the original AristCraft streamliners. They were shorter than the current versions available from either USAtrains or Aristo Craft. The shorter ones will easily handle your 4' radius curves. I'm not sure about the newer longer ones. The longer ones will navigate the 5'radius curves on my layout, but there is a lot of overhang.

Chuck 





Thanks for the reply! When I originally thought about the Pullmans I also wanted to go with a Pacific 4-6-2 or something similar and be true to form. 6 cars plus loco. I think that dwarfs this layout.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, 
how important is it to you that part of the layout be modular and movable to the foyer for the holiday display? 
I ask, because looking at your trackplans and the space you have available in the basement, it seems to me it 
might be easier to design a basement layout with 8-foot diameter curves (or wider) and just forget about the modular thing.. 

then maybe design a much smaller layout for the holiday display.. 
Two seperate layouts, that fit both spaces very well, with no compromises. 
rather than one layout that doesnt fit either space very well, because you need to compromise to force it to do both? 

Maybe im misreading what you are trying to do, but thats just an idea that popped into my head!  

Scot


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

Posted By Scottychaos on 09 Jan 2012 03:58 PM 
Chris, 
how important is it to you that part of the layout be modular and movable to the foyer for the holiday display? 
I ask, because looking at your trackplans and the space you have available in the basement, it seems to me it 
might be easier to design a basement layout with 8-foot diameter curves (or wider) and just forget about the modular thing.. 

then maybe design a much smaller layout for the holiday display.. 
Two seperate layouts, that fit both spaces very well, with no compromises. 
rather than one layout that doesnt fit either space very well, because you need to compromise to force it to do both? 

Maybe im misreading what you are trying to do, but thats just an idea that popped into my head!  

Scot 


It's the layout fits the foyer and would be set up most of the year in the basement. With as much land and we have outside I'll stick to the original layout. I guess in my mind I was trying to justify some of the costs by making it dual purpose.





--Chris


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

I also mixied up radius and diameter, seems to happen a lot on this board


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

So what is it that you are planning on doing, radius or diameter? It really makes a big difference if we are going to try to help you.


Chuck


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

Original plan above used 4' diameter curves of which I own a few from current layout. In order to use the Pullman and the Pacific 4-6-2 would need 8' diameter. Second layout above (green) contains 8' diameter curves, but I suppose I could keep this train on outer loop and use the 4' diameter curves to build something interesting as an inside loop? 



I already own an LGB Mogul (md), Aristo Sierra coach (md), a few narrow gauge freight cars, a USA shanty (md). After this layout is complete plan is to get second loco and complete the Seirra set. At that point I would be starting on the Pacific 4-6-2 and so on. Massoth Central Station and Navigator.
Original layout idea was to have passenger trains do a timed stop and departure triggered by the other trains arrival at station. The freight would contnuously run the layout. If I must rethink the whole thing maybe just stick with the two locos and call it a day. Consider a layout outdoors for Pacific/Pullman much much later.

More related to OP If I put in an Aristo switch is there going to be an issue swapping a USAT later or do I need to stick with original and change motor?

--Chris 


(md) massoth decoders


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

In keeping with being safe than sorry I went ahead and continued with that layout and came up with this. Will have to make the station (brown), inner loop and siding more parallel in real layout. Shanty (red)


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the new plan. It keeps trains on separate tracks and eliminates the reversing loops, which while can be made to work, can be a unnecessary complication. You can now run two trains. On one of your earlier plans they would of had to share a section of track which would require blocks and signals, another complication.


Chuck


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

Since I am buying all new track for this layout saving money and going with aluminum is OK? Is aluminum DCC compatible? Aluminum has higher conductivity than brass just didn't know of any reason to avoid it for indoor layout?


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

OK, this is becoming too confusing. Aluminum wire is used for electricity all the time second to copper. However, Aristocraft on their site says it's inferior to brass, so much so it shouldn't be used for anything but battery powered???


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Dawktah;
I think the problem is that outdoors aluminum oxidizes much quicker than brass, and that the oxidation on the aluminum is a stronger insulator than the oxidation on the brass. My local club constructed a modular display layout using aluminum rail for indoor displays, and we experienced minimal trouble from oxidation. One of our members (now deceased) had a layout with aluminum track in an outbuilding for at least 10 years, and had very few problems from oxidation in that time - even though the structure was unheated. Both layouts were track powered.

Outdoors its another story, just like the cautions against Bachmann's tinplate sheet metal track outdoors (the track will turn into a pile of rust in about three-month's time outdoors).

Hope this helps,
David Meashey


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

I called Sunset Valley and will be attempting to build this entire layout by hand. In the long run will look better and I can also bridge from panel to panel better than with track sections. Also going to use Code 250 brass. If there is a project section will post pictures as I go.

--Chris


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## dawktah (Dec 29, 2011)

After some looking onto building the support structure for the plan I found the need to modify. Below you will find the new plan. With initially only two switches the cost will be a lot lower as well. The hash marked portion will be built as phase II if at all. I will have to do my due dilligence in order to make the curves that can be swapped out for the curved switches, dark blue hash marked. I will also need to find these curved switches in code 250, or just use the joiners on SVRR. 

As far as I can tell there is not a reverse loop in this layout. The timed stop will be in the dark green area. I will still be able to run two trains.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Add 2 switches to the red portion for a third circle in the future and run 3 trains!!!


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