# Kadee install on USAT Streamliner



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I've read the instructions on the Kadee site and they leave a lot to be desired. At least for me.

Does anyone have any pictures of the installation?

Maybe a better explanation if the installation?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy:

It is a relatively easy install to replace the USAT lower coupler with an body mount Kadee 830. I had to do this because all of my engines are at the height for body mounted couplers, not the truck mount height that comes on the cars. I only do it to the end of the car that will be directly behind the engine.


I use aluminum bar stock that is 1/8 inch thick and 3/4 inch wide. I cut it to 1 1/2 inch long. 










I then drill out a hole so that the screw that I use to hold the coupler pocket together will sit in the void and be flat with the pocket.










I then attach the pocket with 1 inch self tapping screws. I found it necessary to drill out the holes in the pocket to accept the screws with out stressing the plastic around the holes.










You will notice that I didn't get the holes drilled correctly. The coupler pocket is at a slight angle 


The aluminium spacer fits in between the two screws on either side of the pocket.


You may need to shim the pocket to match the height of your engines. 











Chuck


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Randy,

If i were you, i would only convert the front coupler on the front car

to Kadees and leave the rest of the USA couplers there. They are a real pain to convert.

Ive never had a problem with the metal couplers on the streamliners and I


pull 16 at a clip.


Chuck,

Picture looks awsome Dude......


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Randy, the two pages seem pretty detailed, especially since there is a complete drawing of the shim needed.

Did you look at this: *http://www.kadee.com/con...trong>** ? 


It's a shim like Chuck shows, the thickness is very close to 1/8", although the 0.12" they specify is .005" thinner.

They also specify the setback of the coupler from the end of the car, and also how to deal with the springs that control the vestibule doors.

They seem pretty complete.

Greg*


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have only done it to the baggage car for the "Ski Train" and a postal car for my B&O streamliner. Therefore the vestibule springs don't come into play.

In my case I might add another 1/8" shim. The coupler on the car is still a little high compared to the engine. 


Chuck 



PS I am using the USAT step up knuckle coupler on the engine. I needed to do that because all of my freight cars are body mounted.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, actually I only did my first car, and left the rest of the couplers stock. The USAT couplers are metal, stay coupled and have pretty good swing side to side. 

Regards, Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions guys. 

I am planning to replace only the front coupler of 1 car. 

Greg, the Kadee site doesn't give any illusitrations so it's hard to follow. 

I believe the Kadee instructions are similar to Chuck's install above. 

While I looked for your installation page before posting this thread, I did find it later and it looks like you did your install differently. 

I like the way you did it actually. 

But I have a question. 

You set your coupler up for wide curves. 

I have 10 foot diameter curves. 

Kadee suggest using the 906/830 straight center shank 

Can the 830 be mounted to the coupler mounting bracket instead of making a shim plate and drilling new holes in the floor? 

Randy


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy:

My curves are all Aristo wide radius (5' radius, 10' diameter) and I do not have any trouble. 


Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My curves are 10' diameter and I have an S curve in one location... with only 12" straight in the middle. It works with an 8 car consist... 

No, you can't use the existing bracket very well... the shim is simple, just as Chuck shows. 

The installation on my site is by Llyn Rice, and is an alternate way to do it, but I'm not sure it will go as "tight". 

Just make the shim and do it the Kadee way. 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used Kadee #789 on the USAT combine and it seems to work just as well. Again with the same type of shim. The baggage and postal cars are shorter than the other streamliners in the series.


Chuck


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

I've never taken my converted coaches through any turn which is tighter than 20 feet diameter. I really doubt that you will be able to run on the 10 foot diameter with my conversion technique. On broad curves the cars couple closely and really look great. If you were to do the conversion without turning the mounting bases end-for-end, the couplers might stick out far enough to tolerate 10 foot diameter curves. Converting only the head end of the first car will work. I just happen to be one of those folks who insists on converting EVERY piece of rolling stock to Kadee couplers so that any car/engine in my rail empire can be coupled to any other car/engine.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've updated my site to make it even more clear. 

Llyn's conversion is for wide curves, and it says so, now even bolder than before! 

On my page I present the Kadee conversion first with a link to the conversion document, and I also document how I added an 830 to my RPO. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s thanks again Llyn for the alternative installation pictures and text


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks everyone 

I'll go with Kadees install using the shim 

Just have to order the couplers now. 

Randy


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

OK 

I've cut out a 1/8 inch thick shim from plexi glass. 

When I took the USAT coupler and mounting bracket off, I found the floor isn't flat on the vestibule end. 

It has two ribs running perpandicular to the car. 

So with the spacer and 906 coupler and long gearbox in place on top the ribs, the top of the coupler is against the rubber diaphram slightly. 

The coupler looks to be in the right place. 

Did you guys trim the diaphram? 

Randy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, or remove it... 

Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg 

Being I was installing the coupler to the vestibule end of the coach, right where the two side screws line up, there are two holes in the floor of the coach with small plastic pins in the holes. So I couldn't use screws in these holes to secure the coupler gearbox. I used the center hole and the back center hole. 

Randy


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg 

Being I was installing the coupler to the vestibule end of the coach, right where the two side screws line up, there are two holes in the floor of the coach with small plastic pins in the holes. So I couldn't use screws in these holes to secure the coupler gearbox. I used the center hole and the back center hole. 

Randy


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I used KayDee # 789s' on my UAS UP streamliners by alternating the couplers on each car....mounted one deeperin the pocket of one car and not as deep on the oposing one. Here are the pics works fine no shimming you attach on inside of the the coupler box. Seems perfectly made for mounting this way

See the pics


























Notice the space between the diaphrams. How they look from side view.











You can see by the small space between both car's diaphrams, the little space is acceptable. If you have smaller curves on your layout it gives you just enough leway.
Once again NO shimming and the flexability of the 789's vs the 830s(?)

My 2 cents.

Bubba


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Alright 

First trip was a complete success. With the Rock Island FA1 and FB1 hooked to my 4 car consist, we headed out for our first trip. Everything went great with no problems at all. 

While the rubber diaphram on the front of the coach was rubbing the top of the coupler, it didn't cause any problems and for that I will leave it as for now. As you can see in the video the cars really track pretty good through the 8 foot diameter curves. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUFJ4-1DAg8 

Now to hook the Rio Grande F3 to the streamliners and see how it does. 

Randy


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Success for the second test. 

I pulled the FA1 & FB1 off the mainline and set the F3 Rio Grande on the track in front of the Streamliners. Backing the F3 up to the coach, the rubber diaphrams touched with at least a 1/4 inch of space between the couplers. I thought this might be a problem but it didn't turn out bad at all. I shoved the coach forward until the couplers clicked and off we went. The streamliners creak as they go through the big S turn but even at high speed they never came off the track. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaCD0TCmCTA 

Next up is waiting for darkness and turning the lights on. 

Randy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If the diaphragms touch, a bit of silicon grease on the faces will help things, if nothing else to reduce wear. 

Lookin' good Randy! 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Nice pool table guy


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