# why is this an elderly hobby?



## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

Not to make fun or upset anyone here but really, even myself being 40 and "new" to Gscale, I feel like one of the younger guys. It does not bother me one bit and actually I like it this way! lol 
I would like to here some feedback as to why you think this is the case?
From more expensive to having a yard to put it in etc. etc. I would hate to see this beloved hobby of G scale somewhat die off with my generation.


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

40 here too, in part its a generation thing like models or radio airplanes which older guys tend to do. I've done trains in smaller scale for many a year, the other i think is cost or lack of interest in younger people who tend to do video gaming, computers, etc although im a big vidoegamer nut lol.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

well, I think its pretty simple.. 
generally speaking, the older you get, the more money, and the more time (especially if retired) you have for hobbies.. 

Model railroading often follows this pattern: 

5-10 years old - get a first train set. 
10-18 years old - build a layout in your bedroom or basement.
18-40 years old - drop out of the hobby all together, as other interests and responsibilities take up all your time and money. 
40-50 - some begin to reenter the hobby, as money and time reserves begin to slowly replenish. 
50-100 - hobby time and cash are at at all time high.. 

yeah, thats a generalization of course..but I bet its true more often than not!  

Scot


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

John;

I've been playing with trains since I was younger than ten. I'm almost 65 now, but those trains help keep me young. I switched to large scale in my 40's because the HO and the OO British stuff was getting too difficult to see well. Perhaps there are more older folks in large scale for the same reason I switched. It's easier to see and work with, but that's just my guess. Anyway, we don't have anyone in our local club who is in their 30's, but we would be happy to welcome some younger folks.

I also remember that I did not have very much to spend on hobbies in my 30's, as a lot of our income went into raising our two daughters. So maybe that is another factor. Probably it varies with income and other family dynamics. Just my $.02 and food for thought.

Yours,
David Meashey


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

One does not grow old. One only learns how to act in public. 

We are not elderly we only have PHDs in acting in public. 

Under this crusty outer covering beats the heart of a 27 year old. Just with a little more plaque in the veniens.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By takevin on 17 Sep 2010 08:35 PM 
40 here too, in part its a generation thing like models or radio airplanes which older guys tend to do. I've done trains in smaller scale for many a year, the other i think is cost or lack of interest in younger people who tend to do video gaming, computers, etc although im a big vidoegamer nut lol. 

I think this relates to the other thread asking if this is an expensive hobby.

Entry costs can be a killer... track and an engine CAN BE expensive. Granted you can get a plastic track set to run around the Christmas tree, but they are actually bad investments (to my way of thinking) as they are cheaply made and don't last long, especially outdoors where "Garden Railways" are, by name, located. Younger folk may be interested, but spouses and kids can (and should) be a priority and without concensus on expenditures it is not wise to jump in with both feet and the wallet. It is not until the kids are kind of on their own (maybe living at home, but with jobs that produce some of their own maintenance). That, and the experience of living within a budget means the family now has additional income available for private hobby expenditures.

I didn't get started in the hobby until my wife declared she didn't need me and left. I then began to wonder where all my income had been going as I found I could afford some rather expensive hobbies. Still the entry expense of Live Steam was very difficult, but I could see future income paying for the extreme initial outlays and that it would "settle out" after a few years... which happened the way I figured. I was actually able to idulge in two expensive hobbies simultaneously for a while and today probably could do more, but the "future income" is now very limited and health worries temper my wild abandon of spending how ever I please.

As for this hobby dying off. I doubt it. Yes, some of the hobby founders are dying off and that is a sad loss, but there are folk still buying and younger folk are entering the age where disposible income is increasing (tempered by the present economy!) and I am sure there are younger ones yet, that will develop an interest, but it may not be in 1900's steam locomotives, but in 2000's Diesel Tier III Ecologically correct rail operations.

The hobby is waxing now, and may wane in the future, but I doubt if it will die.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

G will never die as long as we are around period.............. Say what you will but we all have a stake in it. Young, old, middle aged we just Luv our G scale choo choos.................


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## IllinoisCentral (Jan 2, 2008)

Money, space, and interest. I've found that dorm/apartment living in college is not very conducive to running anything let alone building or modeling something. Money is tight between the cost of school, the obscene cost of books, and other extraneous amenities. Plus, most people I know who have any sort of hobby are more into the arts, computers, or gaming and not so much modeling of any sort (planes, trains, or automobiles). I know I'm not the only one with an interest since I've seen other colleges with model railroading clubs. But look at it this way, trains have been modeled in some form by someone for over one hundred years, it will continue to evolve but I doubt that its going to die off.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

To keep the hobby vital and growing, we have to make a concerted effort to be seen. The guys who run at non-train public venues can tell you the fantastic response you get from the general public.... Well, right up until you tell them how much the bloody things actually cost, anyway. 

I generally try to have at least one summat stock starter set loco along, so I can point it out as a 'reasonable' place to begin..... The simplest way to phrase it is to tell them, the starter loco is like a Chevy or Toyota, and the big fancy thing they are drooling over is like a Rolls or Maserati... and both can get you where you're going.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

5-10 years old - get a first train set. 
10-18 years old - build a layout in your bedroom or basement. 
18-40 years old - drop out of the hobby all together, as other interests and responsibilities take up all your time and money. 
40-50 - some begin to reenter the hobby, as money and time reserves begin to slowly replenish. 

About what happened with me: 

Lionel O-27 set as a kid, which I turned into a 'spare room in the basement' type layout that got tore down about the time I graduated high school...then twenty odd years of other things, until I got the house built and paid off, a nice big room over the garage, and a minor windfall I decided I could spend on trains. Real close toss-up though between '0' and 'G' for me though; deciding factors being that G was bigger and I didn't care for the 3 rail appearance of most of the '0' scale track. 

As of late, I've been seeing these large scale plastic track holidaze sets starting to really take off, which has me wondering - if the folks behind this start paying any attention to quality and move a bit beyond the holidaze stuff, then starter level G, anyhow, becomes a lot more affordable.


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I started in HO and N scale when i was young and still do N scale. For a while i didnt have the space, time or money to have a layout, and everything collected dust. 

Im 27, just got started in G scale about 2 years ago, finally had the money to start collecting. Working across the street from a great large scale shop helped drastically get me going. So far ive spent about 2k on G scale, and about 1K on N. In G i got several engines Including a spectrum consolidation, a lgb thunder mountain set, accu ruby, and a few cars and couple cabooses. 

It needs 3 things at the same time to have a G scale layout. Time, Space and Money. With 2 of the 3 it can be done, but its tough.. 

Smaller scales require drastically less space and money For N Scale with engines in the $30 and cars in $5 range it was great and fairly easy to have a 3x4' layout. with several loops of track and decent train lengths. smaller layouts can be done with single loops. in the range of 2x2 or so. Lots easier to have all 3, and people can graduate from the smaller sets to G Scale when they get all 3 things. 

my 1/2c


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

FWIW, I think the biggest reason that this is an 'elderly' hobby is simple -- a reasonably stable piece of real estate to call your own! When you're starting a career and a family, you can likely predict a future in front of you that entails moving, perhaps from job to job, state to state, apartment to house (and sometimes back again!). Do you really want to transfer that 'dream layout' from your head to the yard --rocks, plants, pond and all -- if you're not reasonably sure that you're going to be there to enjoy it for the next mumblety-something years?

No, it's us old settled types who have the mortgage paid off and the kids out who actually believe we'll be around long enough to get that dream built. Until then, kitbash or weather some models, join a modular group, or (gasp) build a layout in N-scale!

Now before y'all go jumping down my throat, I KNOW that this is a big generalization. Many of us have taken the risk, and built layouts that we knew from the get-go wouldn't survive that long due to changing circumstances. Some folks on this forum have built a 2nd or even 3d iteration layout, each one getting better as we learn from our mistakes. Heck, didn't GR even do a series several years back about building your 'second generation layout'?

But GENERALLY, I think it's clear that most garden railroads get built when we're at that stage of our lives when we're settled in, and don't expect a lot of changes in our lives. (I WON'T say "lifestyle" -- I think it's a word that's been reduced to verbal chewing gum!)


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Started at 5 years old with Lionel, went to HO,N scales. Had to put in a handy cap bath room down stairs. 
Seen G scale 30 years ago, that was the end of HO,N. Been outside ever since.
I think the young kids have to many video games, cell phones, I pads, and all that other junk.


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

I am 40 and was never into trains as a kid. My father was friend with someone who build an HO set in the basement and we visited them as a kid and I was interested but just never had the money to do anything. After High school a funny thing called life shifted my interest into making money. I joined the Canadian forces and spent over 20 years travelling around the world and raising a family. When my father retired he got into the hobby and peeked my interest again. This time I had money and the hobby provided me with a bonding activity with My child. From there it continues to grow and it has provided me with a common interest between my Father and I that has flourished our relationship. 

I always looked at it like a natural progression of life we start off as a kid and enjoy playing with trains then we grow up. We reach a point in our lives when we realize it is no fun taking life too serious then we revert back to our childish ways again but with more intelligent ways to have fun. I am nothing more than a big Kid and like it.


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

* I recieved my first train when i was 6 years old, I was into it, until my teenage years. Then I found HO race car sets. I traded all my Lionel trains for race car set. Then I lost interest very shortly cause I found another hobby, Girls. Went through that phase also,"Got Married". Then the train thing was rekindled in the 70's, when my brother got an HO train for a gift, witch he was never into trains, but I had an old HO engine that was broken. I was told there was a hobby store that could fix it. So I went there, I walked in and all I saw was a fabulous Lionel Layout, I was hooked. I started buying Lionel trains, stuff my family could never aford, but I always wanted. Well it grew and grew and being a compulsive person, I ended up with one of the largest Lionel collections in central Illinois. I even opened a train shop for a few years. I only delt with old trains. I ran a repair and restoration Lionel service also. Then a friend got some G-gauge and built a small layout. I bought one engine, started going over and running every week. Well the Lionel trains where just sitting on shelves collecting dust, so I sold the whole collection and started buying G-gauge, as I said before, being compulsive, I now have a lot of G-gauge trains now. Now there is one reason we are old, it took years to get where I am now.*
* My other hobby is also a big hobby, Classic Cars. I have 3 Classic Cars. That hobby has gone the same way. Have you ever been to a car cruise? Not one person under 50 show up. *
*Thanks, Rex *


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Scot's "generalization" sums it up quite well, not just for this segment of the hobby, but for the hobby in general. 

My own involvement in the hobby pretty much follows the timeline he presented, and it has been my experience that this is pretty much the case for the vast majority of present-day participants. 

Truth is, the model railroading hobby has long been dominated by those in the 50-plus age group, and that's not at all likely to change. I'm old as dirt, but I spend a good portion of my working and leisure time striving to grow the hobby by providing, via the O gauge magazine I edit, the information and entertainment needed to inspire others to give this most creative of all hobby pursuits a try. 

We oldsters are pretty well settled in our lives; have more disposable income and time to devote to a hobby; and often enough seek to stay active and to keep our minds alert. Many younger folks simply do not have the time or the resources to devote to such activities because they are busy building careers for themselves, raising a family, and attending to life's multitude of other demands. It's really pretty much as simple as that. 

We're approaching what I call the "growing season" for the hobby. It's the time of year when many--perhaps most--of us, regardless of our age at the time, were initiated to the world of model railroading via a train around the Christmas tree. My feeling is that it's also up to each of us, as individuals already engaged in the hobby, to get out and make it a personal goal to plant that seed in at least one other individual wherever and however we best can. That kind of thing is what keeps the hobby growing better and faster than any advertisement of manufacturer's promotion could possibly do.


Instead of fretting about the demographics, it's incumbent on each of us to do our part to share this hobby's potential with those around us whenever the opportunity presents itself.


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

WOW I was impressed to see 15 replies this morning in my inbox! And not one single negative comment, which is appreciated. 
I want to thank all of you for your valid comments and do want to point out.... That timeline in which Scot posted really puts it in persepective. (sorry I do not know how to quote someone) 
As for my story, it is similar... 
My father was born in 1913 and was 56 when I was born, although he never had a layout with me, he did have an HO one before (must have been 40's/50's?) Because I found little boxes of figures and old cars that I used to play with. (still have some of them old cars) I got a small HO set for Christmas maybe and built a 4x8 layout in my bedroom when I was in grade school (still have that too, now being converted to N scale by the oldest boy). I remember seeing G scale ads in my train mags way back in the day and fantasized about having it "some" day. Well... now I am 40 with a 5 year old and a good 3-4 years into G-scale. A great "bonding activity" for sure and is what drives me mostly at this point. 
I remember when I found my current (hoefully last) home I remember dreaming of an Expansive Railroad Empire and how I would plan it into the yards. Before I even purchased the home, I could see it! Now 3 years after living here it is finally starting to take shape and the dream is slowly being fulfilled! 
What worries me now.... is not being able to share it anyone. I need some more G scalers in town! Maybe it's up to me to present the hobby at local events with small displays etc. In another life I would be a landscaper that offers G-scale as an added feature!


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

BTW, I was BIG into Mopars like forever. Last year I sold my very 1st car it was a 68' Plymouth GTX and ALL my car stuff (tons) then spent the money on bills and trains! Things DO change as life lives along eh?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Any hobby can. I think economy, life, etc., get in the way of many at any age, it seems that the volume of posts here went down about the same time the economy got rocky in 2008.... 

Also for the younger guys like myself, there is the pull of family duties and other family hobbies such as travel, boats, etc. 

As for selling the old car stuff John....yes, did that, and that was an expensive hobby compared to this one. Boxes of large scale trains from Europe are cheaper to ship than boxes of car parts from Europe too!


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## darkdaniel100 (Dec 26, 2008)

Im 23 so guess one of the "younger ones" ..I guess "younger folk" are rare in the Gscale world .. Im not 100% why that is ... Im hoping if Bachmann push there large scale thomas range then it will boost the numbers?.. Currently I dont have a "fixed" layout but I buy locomotives/rollingstock/track/controllers as and when I can .. My view is to get the locomotives I want .. get them converted to DCC and buy all the bits I need so when I can setup the layout I want I will have already got the "expensive" bits 

Just my 2pence worth


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Space...and time 

When working fulltime in SoCal I had neither. Also moved from Apt to apt too often as life evolved. Most times I could barely fit in an On3 pike. It was small enough to pack up and move as necessary and projects could be continued. 
Economics plays a big roll too. 1 $200 passengr car vs. 6 $35 car kits... 1 car vs. a train! Back then I had a social life..... 

I look at the videos and think to myself; these guys are old! Then I look in a mirror and see my father! 

John


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Easy to explain: 

The young are usually into cars, girls, sports and the like. Then you have a family and your disposable income is disposed.


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

I think others are correct when say other factors are involved. When younger I was focused on girls , cars etc. Got older and had work , family issues to deal with. I have been in G since I was about 32, I am almost 40 now. I am staying with G. I was an "HO " guy before leaving the hobby to pursue family things. When I reentered model railroading I knew I would stay with G as I got older because of size. As I get 
older my sight is probably going to give out. So tiny details in " HO" would not be a 
joy to work with. Obviously G is easier to work with. 

What I am amazed @ in this hobby is how many lonewolf modelers there are. By that I mean how many people are into g in my area, but do not belong or form clubs. In other scales there are many module clubs , traveling spreading the joy of there particular scale. Here there are few if any. Just by chance working in the landscape construction field I have met a few modelers that I would have never met. I think "g" will always be around. However if we want it to grow, we have got our work cut out for us.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

First of all, that word "elderly" is in itself misleading.  From my standpoint, my fellow large-scale model railroad enthusiasts are often "seniors," but RARELY "elderly" (late 70s and up) unless one is looking at them (not me of course) from the perspective of a twenty-year-old when anyone from forty on up would probably qualify. 


Regrettably, from my experience, those same younger (and often immature) people RARELY show any interest in trains of ANY scale because it is not a part of their life experience nor are trains ever included in the pop culture which tends to drive everything on the younger end of the spectrum. Trains are rarely seen at all  in anything but "classic" movies that only we more mature people view. When was the last time you saw an ad with a train in it except for that one Coors Light train ad of a few years back that went nowhere ? Would you give a train-related gift to a younger person unless it was somehow directly connected to YOU and was seen in their minds in that light ("Oh that's uncle Joe's gift. He is into trains") ?  You KNOW that gift will probably end up in the bottom of a closet somewhere.  What about all those train songs referred to in earlier posts here on MLS? You know of any NEW ones ? If there are  any out there, I certainly have not heard them. The newest ones I know are Johnny Cash songs from the 1950s and early 1960s describing a generation of people living a way of life that is now largely passed on.  If you grew up after the 1950s you probably have little in common with trains.  I don't see trains in the way WE relate to them coming back because those trains have become all but invisible to MOST young people or are otherwise seen as about as sexy as an oil rig.  Any young train enthusiasts would probably be seen as somewhat "strange" or "nerdy," and who wants THAT label as a young person? 


I would not have gotten into this hobby had I not had a strong interest in things historical. I have very little direct experience with real trains in my background. Although I did have a Lionel train set at one time, and definitely appreciated it way back then,  I moved well beyond that by the time I was into high school and would have never returned had it not been for a historic project that peaked my interest in trains in the early 1990s. Even then, had I not planned on purchasing a large property and then integrating a large-scale model train into my new business back in 1996, I would never have committed myself to this hobby. Given what I know now about the costs involved, I would NOT recommend model trains  of any scale to anyone who does not already have a strong interest in trains AND possesses the necessary space, time AND resources to commit to something as all-encompassing as this particular hobby has become.  
I would not do it again because of the  excessive cost involved, but I must say that I appreciate what this hobby has done for me. Additionally, had I not integrated my trains into my business, I could never have justified the expenditure and the time involved.  I would NOT recommend this hobby to ANY younger person.  I believe the commitments involved are simply too great AND on top of that, it would be excessively difficult to find others  almost ANYWHERE except maybe southern California or a few places in Arizona and a few other limited places who would be there as fellow model  railroad enthusiasts to help share the experience. It is a lonely hobby if one is not prepared to travel hundreds of miles to attend to those few events (perhaps one or two a year MAX for most) where the "elderly" CAN get together, such as the annual Marty's Battery-Powered Steam-up event.  THAT is a social event that helps make it all worthwhile, but such opportunities to share in this hobby are few and far between. Why do you suppose MOST younger people involve themselves PRIMARILY in video games, pop-music and pop-culture movies and events ? Because they can get together with each other and SHARE those experiences.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Aw come on guys! Don't ya know its a way to get back to our childhoods!! Also a way to play with trains and not have people think you are senile or crazy, even though I am accused of it everyday by my life long partner!! I started trains when I was 5, got into Largescale in the 90's after being in 027, Ho, N, Z, prior! LOL Regal


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## chanselman (Jan 7, 2008)

Don't know why but it seems that the up and coming generation does not share in our love of trains. Maybe it is because trains were not as much a part of their lives as they were with us. In talking to my local (AZ) Hobby Shop owner, he told me that he hardly sells anything in G scale anymore. For all intents and purposes he considers it to be DOA. He said that O scale does a lot better. He also told me that for the first time N scale has taken a dramatic drop in sales. Something he finds surprising.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Get back? 

My sister will claim I never let it go.... 60 going on 5.... funny the first # goes up, but the 5 is constant! 

Lionel 1954-1960, HO -1975, On3 (some Nn3 too) -2005, G- infinity and beyond! 
Dad gave away the Lionel, The Pennsy Turbine! I've kept all my other scales, including the brass GN S-2 Tenshodo Dad brought home from Japan and the On3 K-27 that cancelled my On3 outdoor plans. Too precision for dirt! Then the G bug bit. 

Sometimes I don't want my rivets counted..... in my world my trains are dang near perfect, flaws and all! 

John


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## Big65Dude (Jan 2, 2008)

All this just goes to prove that it's never too late to have a happy childhood!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm 67 and been involved in model trains for as long as I can remember. My first recollection was in the middle forties when my grandfather set up his Lionel trains around the Christmas tree every year. NO other time of the year, just Christmas. That was always a treat! He bought one of the first Lionel steam turbine locos, #671, just at the end of the war (early 1946 I think). I STILL have this engine AND it runs! I even have the smoke pellets in the original bottle. How toxic can that be?!! Has the 8-wheel whistle tender. 

My grandfather and I collected Lionel up until his passing in 1960. I went into HO about 1955 and built an 8X12 layout in the garage. Paul Burch (here on MLS, Sierra Cascade and Pacific RR.) and I passed a lot of time on this layout before I had to dismantle it for a move to a new house. Bummer. 

In the early eighties, after college and the Army, I got involved with 1/8th scale ride-on stuff. Still involved. Lgb came along with the 2018, red and green mogul in 1986 and I got sucked into that scale. Doing 1/20.3 Fn3 narrow gauge now. 

I believe the older folks can identify more with traditional trains and the holidays. I stays with us. Hopefully along the way, we can get some younger folks to pass this train tradition along.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Technically my model railroading started at age 43. That was my dad's age when he bought me my first Lionel train for Christmas, 1940 when I was 4. Dad never got officially into the hobby but enjoyed seeing the trains run and always saw to it I had a space for them everywhere we moved. By the time I was ten I was the "rich kid" on the block with four train sets and numerous accessories. Dad just couldn't pass up something neat or a good deal for my trains. hehe! 

After that I was in the hobby in various scales for all my life one way or the other except for a time in the USAF in the 50's. 

As to this being an elderly hobby I think a lot of it comes from the fact that the early impetus for "G" was not from model railroaders but from grandpa's building to entertain the grandkids and gardeners looking for a novelty to enhance the garden that reminded them of happy days past watching the obligatory train around the Christmas tree. Too it's a great family endeavor that is more easily exploited by those retired than by working couples raising families whose time and money are limited. 

I don't think our hobby will disappear unless model railroading and/or toy trains themselves disappear. It's just that the newcomers will continue to be mostly late 40 - 50'ish instead of much younger as is the case with N and HO scales. There will also always be a few younger entrants too. When I was 25 I had more friends in their 50's and 60's than I did my own age in HO scale. 

So I wouldn't worry. There are enough aspects to railroading to satisfy a myriad of talents and interests.


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## Darkrider (May 21, 2010)

Elderly? I'm 18 and just getting into Garden railroading! Plus a few of my little relatives seem to have an interest with trains.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

... those same younger (and often immature) people RARELY show any interest in trains of ANY scale because it is not a part of their life experience nor are trains ever included in the pop culture which tends to drive everything on the younger end of the spectrum. Trains are rarely seen at all in anything but "classic" movies that only we more mature people view. 

I have to laugh a bit at this because it's precisely what "they" were saying about my generation when I was growing up. But when you look at the respondents to this thread, a good number of us are in our late 30s/early 40s, and have managed to find our way to trains after plowing through life's little interruptions--despite those sentiments expressed 20-some-odd years ago (and likely 20 years before that). I don't know how big the seed needs to be in order to become "planted," but don't think it needs to be much; a friend or relative who was into trains, a train display at a show... All it needs to do is tap into that sense of romance and excitement that I think is really inherent in all of us at any age. I don't think it's a matter of our interaction with the prototype as much as it is our interaction with the toys and models. How many kids love Thomas without ever having seen a real train? (And what resemblance does Thomas even _have_ to a modern train?) My fascination with steam locomotives is as much--if not more--a product of my interaction with the models and miniature live steam than riding behind the prototypes at Strasburg, the EBT, and wherever else. 

I think if you look at the age "bell curve" in the hobby over the past 40 years, it hasn't shifted much at all. It's always been heaviest in the 50 - 70 year old range. That's a product of folks in that age bracket having the time and income to spend on the hobby as opposed to raising a family, etc. Those of us in the 30 - 50 range may have the extra income and a bit of time for the hobby, but it's balanced against soccer, weekend camping trips, ballet, and other things. It's the "nature abhors a vacuum" theory. The hobby is always there for us to enjoy when there's nothing else competing for the resources. I think those who are active in the hobby in the younger ages (teens through 30) are there because they genuinely enjoy the hobby the way others enjoy the "hobby" of bar-hopping, etc. Speaking from my own experience, I was never "in" to the club scene as a young adult, partly because I hate loud places, and I can't dance for ****. So it wasn't a sacrifice on my part to spend an evening at home in the workshop blowing off the steam of the day instead of spending $20 in bar tabs to do the same thing. Since "most" of my peers did enjoy that, I had no problem occupying myself with other interests and other social circles more in tune with how I enjoyed spending my time. The local train club was one of those groups. 

Later, 

K


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

When I got into this hobby 30 years ago I was one of the young ones (40 years old). I got my first train (Lionel) when I was six months old in 1940. That first Lionel included some standard gauge engines, cars and track as well as the traditional O-27. I guess technically it was my fathers, but that was the start of a life long fascination with trains, real and models. Over the years I have had layouts in HO, N, and Z. I have even used "Z" as a garden railroad for my "G" gauge trains.


Being a "senior" now I have more disposable income available than when my kids were growing up, so I have been able to add to my collection over the years.


The bottom line as others have said is that it is time and money, neither of which were available in my 20s and 30s. 


Chuck N


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't worry there's plenty of younger train modelers out there. 

I'm 30 and plan to keep going with G scale. Sure I don't always have time or money for trains, but this is my hobby and I don't plan on abandoning it.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chanselman on 18 Sep 2010 10:03 AM 
Don't know why but it seems that the up and coming generation does not share in our love of trains. Maybe it is because trains were not as much a part of their lives as they were with us. In talking to my local (AZ) Hobby Shop owner, he told me that he hardly sells anything in G scale anymore. For all intents and purposes he considers it to be DOA. He said that O scale does a lot better. 

Same story from many dealers, three rail O is at an all time high now and large/G sales are gone....but the flip side is how many dealers have stock of large/G? One of the biggies that always advertises in Garden Railways had a smaller LGB inventory than I have here at the house when I visited their store in May. Cannot sell what is not available or in your store?

Dad tells me a story of nipping in a hobbyshop in CA back in the 1960s. The guy was "dumping" train stuff as "slot cars are the hobby of the future". Well....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

As most said as we have gotten older and have less family responsibilities due to retirement we now have a little more of the green stuff to work with. I've been in to trains since 1955 and started with HO. My parents bought my first set a Tyco 0-4-0 steam loco and 3 cars and a caboose (BTW still have it) I moved many a time and tore down many a RR due to my dad being transferred. (he worked for a RR). When I got Married I continued in the HO size all the way to 1992 and also had to tear down and move as I worked for the RR also. Then I ended up in the EX mode. After being transferred to Georgia I no longer had a basement so in 1995 I decided to go G scale after sitting out for a couple of years. My trains and layout have exceeded what I had originally tended to have. Gets in your blood just like the HO did. 

My kids loved the trains when I had them set up. But as they got older boys came over trains. It's funny that neither one of my daughters have had any interest in passing this on to the grand kids. Guess cause I live to far to enjoy the kids growing up. I guess in a way my trains bring back the kid in me. I'll have them till I drop dead. May even take a few to the pearly gates.







Later RJD


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By todd55whit on 18 Sep 2010 09:12 AM 

What I am amazed @ in this hobby is how many lonewolf modelers there are. By that I mean how many people are into g in my area, but do not belong or form clubs. In other scales there are many module clubs , traveling spreading the joy of there particular scale. Here there are few if any. Just by chance working in the landscape construction field I have met a few modelers that I would have never met. I think "g" will always be around. However if we want it to grow, we have got our work cut out for us. 
I doubt if the ratio of lone wolf large scale modelers is any different than that found in smaller scales. Yes, you see the N and HO modular clubs, as well as fixed-location clubs, but the total number of N and HO modelers is huge compared to large scalers. Plus, large scale equipment is not as easy to transport, so there is one detractor right there. Throw in the mix of scales all running on gauge 1 track, different couplers in use, and a variety of control/power systems, and it (clubbing) becomes less attractive yet.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Im 31, already have a nice elevated layout in the backyard, live steam engines, regular sparkies, starting the new elevated club track footers next weekend, and a baby in the oven. So basically, I have the larger expenses out of the way before the family lol. 

My father did help me through christmas's and birthdays on starting my collection though, on a good note - most of the gscale members of Tradewinds and Atlantic railroad are between 20-40 years of age (even a beginner machinist that just bought a lathe (cjsrch)). So I wouldn't worry about it, just need to have local club tracks to help the starting cost so that a beginning can buy a starter set or a few engines, have fun and work on the money for his personal layout. The community of large scale will grow this hobby, I wish my local hobby shops felt the same way but they don't, hopefully the large club track that I am starting to physically build will change that! 

Work on the real benefits of largescale. Outdoors and Livesteam!  (just pointing out what largescale has over the other scales! I love my sparkies too)


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 18 Sep 2010 09:20 AM 



Regrettably, from my experience, those same younger (and often immature) people RARELY show any interest in trains of ANY scale because it is not a part of their life experience nor are trains ever included in the pop culture which tends to drive everything on the younger end of the spectrum. Trains are rarely seen at all in anything but "classic" movies that only we more mature people view. 








I dont really think thats a factor..
My 3 year old Neice is 40 years younger than me..she sees trains all the time and loves them.
Trains havent been part of *anyone's* life experience, in an overall cultural sense, for 50 years..not since the end of commonplace passenger service.


Things are no different today than they were when I was a kid in the 70's, as far as "cultural access to trains" is concerned..
There were no trains in my pop-culture of the 70's and 80's either! 

in that sense, I dont think anything is different since about 1960..

Trains are still out there, its just a matter of noticing them or not..no different than always.
I was doing a genealogy interview with my Great aunt recently..she is 85 years old..
During the first 20 years of her life (1925 to 1945) her living room window looked out onto the Lehigh Valley Mainline.
as a kid and a teenager she had about 40 trains a day go by literally across the street.. 

I asked her what she remembured about the trains going by.."oh nothing really..they were just trains..I never really paid any attention to them" 
*sigh*..

So IMO things really arent any different "with these kids today"..
nothing has changed for 50 years really..
and new people still always seem to find the hobby! 


there seem to be a ton of teenagers on all the railfan forums..
im not worried! 
I think the hobby is secure.. 


Scot


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

while I agree with many observations as well as a bit of the time lines 
and the comments about stability and money 

im not sure i agree with the premise 

i am in my mid fifties-have loved trains and models and all things miniature since i can remember 

i did take a hiatus from many interests after law school and for some time thereafter 
 but was able to rekindle my interest starting in n scale (when they were so improved and no longer stalled and jerked-sometime in the 80's-and then 
 into g scale courtesy of my wife and my first gift of a single LGB red and white coach 

there are some things you just like-regardless of age 


 and i find that many of my friends, younger, as well as non-male, also love the hobby but its not familiar or easily entered into for the novice   - going into a real train store can be overwhelming-like going into an art supply store-i recall old model railroader mags and simply looking at the perfect cover shots blew my mind on how to get THAT look-how could i ? i used to make a 'pile' of sand out of a cone of sandpaper! my point is it takes some base of knowledge or a leap of faith


AND



now it may be old fart memory -but even when i re-started with n scale i was thinking that the hobby had become much more expensive than it was in the 60's-


there was more of a specialty, collectors mentality and less of the 'everymans' hobby i think that marked the the 50's (although historically trains have always been expensive to some extent)


so 


if i didnt love trains, im not sure id develop the pricey habit-it seems to be a great deal more of a plunge now (but alas-please sir may i have another! we kinda learn to bite the $$$ pill)


the real problem is that g scale is far less popular and thus more pricey than HO or N -and it translates to cost-and narrow offerings


i see lots of people from teens on up in my local train stores -and at the train shows


so im not sure if its an old guy hobby per se-


it just can be mighty convenient to sit on your butt playing trains rather than getting out for a run or a bike or hike methinks-there is a point of loving time in a project-and -not always havnig a gaggle of friends to go out with at a moments notice-'text me and well meet'-doesnt happen to me too often now-everyones often booked way down the road-one grabs spare time for what you like to do-run? OR -run trains


too-so it could be a result of changes in life


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## JonScott (May 12, 2010)

My wife and was asking me this same question just a few days ago, now I have something too say! I'm 42 and just started and to be honest I thought everyone had a beard! 

John


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ha out grew that years ago.







. Maybe someone should do a poll for the age bracket. Later RJD


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## GaryR (Feb 6, 2010)

Don't know many of the younger set that have either the money, or the skills, or the time, for this and a lot of other hobbies. 

GaryR


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By stevedenver on 20 Sep 2010 03:58 PM 
while I agree with many observations as well as a bit of the time lines 
and the comments about stability and money 



if i didnt love trains, im not sure id develop the pricey habit-it seems to be a great deal more of a plunge now (but alas-please sir may i have another! we kinda learn to bite the $$$ pill)


the real problem is that g scale is far less popular and thus more pricey than HO or N -and it translates to cost-and narrow offerings


i see lots of people from teens on up in my local train stores -and at the train shows


so im not sure if its an old guy hobby per se-


it just can be mighty convenient to sit on your butt playing trains rather than getting out for a run or a bike or hike methinks-there is a point of loving time in a project-and -not always havnig a gaggle of friends to go out with at a moments notice-'text me and well meet'-doesnt happen to me too often now-everyones often booked way down the road-one grabs spare time for what you like to do-run? OR -run trains


too-so it could be a result of changes in life




The problem as I have stated a few times is hobby money_ should_ be the last buck after monthly bills, school tuition, tithes, food, etc. I shudder at the couple people I know that "finance" their hobbies, but they have a couple bankruptcies also.

In these days of "keeping up apperances", many folks my age are more worried about what cruise they went on, or what the Mrs. parks in the garage while pulling 60+ hour weeks. So some of the "spare time" and spare income that Steve speaks of is gone.

But then, as several people have told me since childhood, never trust a grown man without a hobby!

But not just this hobby is getting old....another observation a longtime friend gave me just last month when returning from the national Packard (car) meet, the meeting was more like a nursing home than a car show.

Not just us eh?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 20 Sep 2010 07:30 PM 
Posted By stevedenver on 20 Sep 2010 03:58 PM 
while I agree with many observations as well as a bit of the time lines 
and the comments about stability and money 



if i didnt love trains, im not sure id develop the pricey habit-it seems to be a great deal more of a plunge now (but alas-please sir may i have another! we kinda learn to bite the $$$ pill)


the real problem is that g scale is far less popular and thus more pricey than HO or N -and it translates to cost-and narrow offerings


i see lots of people from teens on up in my local train stores -and at the train shows


so im not sure if its an old guy hobby per se-


it just can be mighty convenient to sit on your butt playing trains rather than getting out for a run or a bike or hike methinks-there is a point of loving time in a project-and -not always havnig a gaggle of friends to go out with at a moments notice-'text me and well meet'-doesnt happen to me too often now-everyones often booked way down the road-one grabs spare time for what you like to do-run? OR -run trains


too-so it could be a result of changes in life




The problem as I have stated a few times is hobby money_ should_ be the last buck after monthly bills, school tuition, tithes, food, etc. I shudder at the couple people I know that "finance" their hobbies, but they have a couple bankruptcies also.

In these days of "keeping up apperances", many folks my age are more worried about what cruise they went on, or what the Mrs. parks in the garage while pulling 60+ hour weeks. So some of the "spare time" and spare income that Steve speaks of is gone.

But then, as several people have told me since childhood, never trust a grown man without a hobby!

But not just this hobby is getting old....another observation a longtime friend gave me just last month when returning from the national Packard (car) meet, the meeting was more like a nursing home than a car show.

Not just us eh?




I can understand a national "Packard" club dwindling. The cars are getting scarcer as the cars and owners wear out. Few people want them because few people have any idea what a "Packard" is. But "car meets" are not dying. My son just got back from a somewhat impromptu Dodge Intrepid meet with lots of attendees and they all worked on several cars to fix them up and modify them to their liking. There are still active car clubs for the Ford Mustang, but I suspect they will be next in line for dwindling membership. My grandson's will see the Intrepid membership dwindle, but they will have some car they lusted after as kids and that will be their club.

I would suspect that the Live Steam hobby might get pretty small because children of today (even of my son's day) just never saw a steam locomotive and so have little desire to replicate it for nostalgic enjoyment. I see an increase in Diesel models in the hobby now and I suspect it will continue to increase and maybe someday in the not too distant future there may be some successor to the Diesel that will catch the public's eye and kids will remember going to see them or having them pointed out as being something new and special and will thus in another 40 to 60 years will want to replicate them in model form. There will still be the old steamers modeled and there will be commercial live steam available, maybe fewer companies and fewer home machinists (how many machinists have had to pick a new carreer in the last couple of decades as the national need for the occupation has dwindled), but there will still be people making/buying the models and running them.


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## HeliconSteamer (Jan 2, 2008)

I think that Kevin Strong has hit something squarely on the head. Some people (like myself) are innately attracted to a certain interest and tend to keep on with that interest. At age 21, I am one of the younger live steamers in the small scales, and I am okay with that. Like Kevin, I have no taste for the interests of my peers and am quite happy to spend a quiet evening at my workbench progressing on my latest modelling project. 

In instances like this, I feel that interests and clubs die off largely because of a failure to cultivate the future membership. In response to Charles' and Garrett's comments about car clubs, I went looking at the membership pages. Of the ones I looked at (Pierce Arrow, Bentley, Dueseneberg, all high end, I admit), only the Bentley Drivers' Club offers a benefit to younger joining members. Of all the rail-related clubs I've looked at and been a member of, the best one by far for junior members is the 16mm Association. They offer youth membership benefits, model construction opportunities at the AGM, and a youth section of the model building competition. There were 4 entries this year, all of which were very impressive. One of the entries won one of the general membership contests, which I find very impressive. 

I must say that I left N scale not because I didn't enjoy running trains, but because I found the modular and club layout people to be less than entirely welcoming to me as a young teenager. When I encountered the live steamers, they were cordial and open to having someone in a younger age group become a part of the steamers group.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

My own interest in trains stems from some interactions as a child. Some models and some real. I can remember being a toddler bundled up and strapped into a runner sled as my father dragged me down the street to the small PRR yard and I seem to remember a bunch of old steam engines long cold awaiting the scrappers torch covered in snow? I also remember going with my father to his old high school buddies house to sort out whose trains were whose and get some for me to "play" with when I was a little older. At one point in my lifetime there were at least two major railroads that ran thru my town and I can remember the Erie passenger depot being torn down. There was a Shawmut depot too but I do not remeber that just my grandfather telling me that the Leo's Market where he took me to buy elephant ears (donuts) then stood. It's still a local grocery store. I can remember counting train cars as a child at crossings. i still live in the same town but the amount of rail traffic is much reduced thru our little town. Mostly at nighttime now with the exception of a small regional railroad that is now in town. When I was into the trains my dad retireved from his High school days I'd also inherited my uncles old slot cars most of which were older aurora model roadways cars in HO. I ran both for a quite a while. In Jr high the library had a subscription to Model Airplane News which also covered other RC models at the time. I fell in love with the RC cars. Got to know the local Hobby shop owner and with my leftover book money my freshman semster bought my first RC car. The Radio came at Christmas time and the batteries and charger at Easter time. My senior year that first RC car was sold to pay for books. As I got out into the workforce I bought a replacement for it and when I moved to Buffalo I got engaged (sigh) and got a part time job at Niagara Hobby & Craft Mart to help pay the expenses of the wedding. I ended up working there over 15 years. At some point my RC hobby transitioned into the large scale trains hobby. I started to buy used RC cars and boats fixing them up and re-selling them to pay for more trains. Lots of layaways and an employee discount got me started. Since I bought that first LGB starter set I've been divorced (she misses the trains) and remarried, had 2 kids, 4 jobs, 12 cars, and moved no less than 8 times, moving my growing collection of large scale trains each time. As I child I also spent a good amount of time travelling around the northeast with my grandparents who took me to now mostly defunct tourist railroads to ride the trains among other things. Tunnels and bridges were cool as a small kid. 

I laid away my first starter set of Large Sale trains in January of 1992 I believe? So I started collecting large scale trains when I was 26 and am now 44.... and STILL do not have a layout! I am working on it though and will have trains running outside before snow flies this winter! Nothing grand for sure but someting I can run one of my smaller trains on at least! 

So my kids will have grown up knowing about trains but have shown no real interest in them other than daddy likes them. At least so far. There are others here that will have children that are exposed (maybe over-exposed?) to trains. I have no fear...there are always seeds.

Chas


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

I’m still young – at least in my own mind. I got my first starter train set for Christmas 1949 … an American Flyer S scale from Sears & Roebuck. Spent most of the 50’s and early 60’s modeling the B&O in HO standard gauge, mostly with Marx and Athearn equipment. Got into narrow gauge in the late 60’s and switched over to HOn3 to model the various Black Hills lines controlled by the Burlington. Spent most of the late 70’s and early 80’s modeling the SP in HO standard gauge with my kids, but still had time to build a HO standard gauge logging line (Cass, Aurora & Spruce Creek RR), based loosely on my childhood memories of growing up in West Virginia. Caught the narrow gauge bug again in the mid 80’s and switched over to Sn3 to model the RGS. I’ve been pretty much addicted to the RGS and all things Colorado since then. I still go by the nickname “Sn3nut” on many web sites and have more Sn3 RGS equipment than anything else. I built my first outdoor G scale layout in the late 80’s, mainly to keep the kids away from my good stuff in the house. Started with cheap Bachmann big haulers that I modified for battery operation and radio control using radio controlled race car components. Have been seriously playing with 1:20.3 stuff in the garden for the past couple of years, and so far I really like it. 
Early on when I was in high school and college, I never had much money for the hobby, so I tended to scratchbuild most things. I started hand-laying track in the 60's because I didn't have the money for prefab sectional track. I devleoped a passion for modular layouts during my years in the military, with all of the moving around. During the middle-to-later period of modelling, I developed the "brass collector" syndrome and spent way more than I needed to, especially when the six kids grew up and started moving out. In the mature modelling years, I have thinned out the brass collection and become more selective on what I buy. 
I guess the trains kind of rubbed off on the kids. Two of them now work on 1:1 scale stuff. One is an engineer and the other a conductor, both on the southern CA commuter lines. And the grandkids sure like running trains in the back yard and in the house! 
So far it has been lots of fun, but I’m not sure yet what scale I like best or which prototype line I want to model when I grow up.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

There are quite a few young people at Marty's every year running their trains. I helped a new guy in his mid-20's with his Aristo Mike live steamer last year. I was in my mid-40's when I started out in G scale. I like to make my own stuff and have not bought very much stuff, heck only had the FA set for several years. 

I know Wichita and Iowa have very popular Garden Rail tours and generate lots of interest. The G1MRA Journal had an article on this and they continue to grow every year, so I don't think anyone has to have a doom and gloom attitude.


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

Not having skills isn't necessarily a young thing, it goes both ways to the old too. Seen that enough in many areas not just to trains. But money or time i can agree on. Still say it is a generation thing, just like model making which is has been dying over the years since most kids today are doing videogames or on the computer, watching tv etc. It's a shame.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well as said its the young folks that are so rapped up in video games that the can not see the forest for the trees. Later RJD


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 21 Sep 2010 09:28 AM 
There are quite a few young people at Marty's every year running their trains. I helped a new guy in his mid-20's with his Aristo Mike live steamer last year. 
Thanks for taking time to help the guy, the live steamers around these parts are downright rude and unfriendly....maybe part of the perception problem?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

All I know is, most club meetings "looks" like a rest home work release program. 
At our open houses they all keep an eye on each other to see if someone "can't " get up off the ground.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay, grandpa!


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

The future of this hobby is not the only thing at risk. 

For those of us who grew up before Atari and the rest of the electronic games to follow, we played outside, got cuts and broken bones. We looked out the window of the car as we rode down the rode looking for different color cars or license plates from other states. When we seen a plane or train we were thrilled. 

Today, too many children grow up in front of the TV or more often a Game Boy or what ever the latest game machine is called. They don't go outside to play. They don't fall down or get into fights. When they go in the car, their nose is stuck in the battery powered game. The have no idea what was between their drive way and the store down the street let alone anything along the way when they rode along to see Grandma 2 hours away. 

What we have growing up in society today are children totally blind to reality. 

They have no interest in anything but playing the electronic games. 

16 year olds could care less about getting their drivers license. Can you amagine feeling that way when you turned 16? 

So where is this hobby going? 

Like so much of life as we know it is going to be lost to children growing up with no internest in anything but playing electronic games all day. 

We have twins that are 9 years old. They've been around my trains. They've run the trains. but niether spend 10 minutes before running back to the tv or the games. 

Sure, those of you with kids at home may well pass your love of trains off to them, but percentage wise, you're talking a drop in the bucket here. 

They say the Computer is one of the biggest inventions ever. Yet, in some ways, it is also one of the worst. 

Life is outside that window. 

If you don't look out the window, you will never know what you've missed. 

Randy


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thus Randy makes my point quite well, I might add. Protestations and exceptions posted here to the contrary notwithstanding, there are simply not that many young people coming into maturity relative to those of us from another ear who will EVER take up this hobby. There will ALWAYS be the exceptions. Some of them have already posted here because those few WOULD be computer-savy and thus much more visible relative to the older hobbyists, but very small in relative number nevertheless. How many of THEIR friends and associates have taken up the hobby ? Any at all ? Probably not. The culture has drastically changed since we grew up in the 30s, 40s, 50s & 60s. Realistically, the current period--the 1980s through today IS the high point of this hobby. Look at any large-scale hobby gathering. You can see it for yourself.  It is not YET an "elderly" hobby, but it is danger of becoming exactly that.  Posted By rlvette on 21 Sep 2010 07:40 PM 
The future of this hobby is not the only thing at risk. 

For those of us who grew up before Atari and the rest of the electronic games to follow, we played outside, got cuts and broken bones. We looked out the window of the car as we rode down the rode looking for different color cars or license plates from other states. When we seen a plane or train we were thrilled. 

Today, too many children grow up in front of the TV or more often a Game Boy or what ever the latest game machine is called. They don't go outside to play. They don't fall down or get into fights. When they go in the car, their nose is stuck in the battery powered game. The have no idea what was between their drive way and the store down the street let alone anything along the way when they rode along to see Grandma 2 hours away. 

What we have growing up in society today are children totally blind to reality. 

They have no interest in anything but playing the electronic games. 

16 year olds could care less about getting their drivers license. Can you amagine feeling that way when you turned 16? 

So where is this hobby going? 

Like so much of life as we know it is going to be lost to children growing up with no internest in anything but playing electronic games all day. 

We have twins that are 9 years old. They've been around my trains. They've run the trains. but niether spend 10 minutes before running back to the tv or the games. 

Sure, those of you with kids at home may well pass your love of trains off to them, but percentage wise, you're talking a drop in the bucket here. 

They say the Computer is one of the biggest inventions ever. Yet, in some ways, it is also one of the worst. 

Life is outside that window. 

If you don't look out the window, you will never know what you've missed. 

Randy


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