# Why web sites make me foam at the mouth



## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

We had an IT guy at our magazine who used to tell me that the print medium was dead and that the web would soon rule the world. Sadly, that's true. But that's not the point of this rant, which is, "Why don't companies pay attention to their websites?" I have gone to two manufacturers (I'll save them the embarrassment for now), asking specific questions about their product. In both cases, there has been no response. So I'll call them on the phone (remember that quaint device?), but I won't be happy. Along those lines, how many times have you clicked on some site, only to find out that the last time it has been updated is about the time Bill Gates and company started MS? 

Similarly, a lot of great information that was disseminated through this site would have survived if it had gone to print and not been stored on a server. This is no reflection on our owner, who has done his best, but rather, is an indictment of the medium, which is transient at best. I have shelves full of Clambake Publishing and other books and magazines that I use for reference. They take up a lot of room, but they'll never "crash" unless the house burns down. And I can read 'em on the john, which is a sight I'd rather not envision when it comes to laptops.

I've always fanatasized about taking the best work of our posters and putting it in a series of how-to books. Maybe they won't be as up to date as the latest posting on the web. But they'll be available in an instant (no log in necessary). And they won't crash, either.

Just ranting. Everyone just move along. Nothing to see here.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's a reason I put stuff on my own web site. I can guarantee it will be there. 

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What drives me up the wall is when you do a search and you click on a result and you get something entirerly different than what your are looking for. 
This come from "Sponsered sites" You get them before you get what you are orginally looking for. Case and point. I was looking for a book from Kalambach, the people who give us Trains Mag and GRRM, I ended up every where but Kalambach's website. It was like the 8 th thing down on the page. 

JJ


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## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

Its really like anything in life though. We tend to only notice the things that annoy us, which ends up making us think it is more common than not.

I challenge you to tally up every "good" website you visit in the course of a week, and compare it to a tally of "bad" websites visited in the same amount of time.

I agree, it is annoying though - I have some decent web design skills myself, and I always think how much I could help people out. But many people are very defensive with their websites, because either they typically made it, or someone they know made it.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

I still have it all, it's just not publicly viewable at the moment.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By ShadsTrains on 04 May 2011 10:26 PM 
I still have it all, it's just not publicly viewable at the moment.


Why don't you consider what one of the German Large Scale webmasters did a few years ago - not that the site went down or the information was taken off line.

He created a searchable archive of all the information, put it on a DVD and offered that for sale for a few bucks.

Sold like hot cakes. 

And it even worked on a Mac - I was impressed.

Knut


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ShadsTrains on 04 May 2011 10:26 PM 
I still have it all, it's just not publicly viewable at the moment. 
BFD


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I've tried to put most of my more useful bits on my web pages. Some times I even succeed. 

As for business sites being updated and phone or e-mail response. When I was in biz, stuff got updated when there were pricing changes or new items. I tried to get back to folks within a day.- but sometimes it would be 5 if we were at a show. (back when cell phones were an expensive luxury, and dial-up was about as good as it got outside the big cities)-- some folks understood we couldn't be two places at once, others didn't.-- And then there were the folks that if you didn't answer the phone right then, or respond to an e-mail within an hour, bought elsewhere and were outright nasty when you DID get back to them. 

Just IMO, you ain't gonna die if you don't get it RIGHT NOW. You sent an email, wait 2 days and send a 2nd one. If you can, send the 2nd one to a specific person AT the company or put "customer question; response requested" in the subject box, not just a generic whatever. After a week, call. Be patient, be polite, be persistent. Sometimes emails DO go off into about the same place as the other sock in a dryer. Sometimes folks also put off answering right away to try to get you a better answer and end up sidetracked and forget. VERY rarely is anybody intentionally ignored, unless they are abusive. They aren't perfect. You aren't perfect. You might think you could easily do better. Chances are that you'd screw up occasionally too. I did, and I still do.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Nothing in this world is truly "permanent." The magazine I produce (O Gauge Railroading) is available in printed form, in digital form (by subscription), and (somewhat later) archived on disc by an independent supplier. I still prefer the print version although I have access to all three formats. If the print version was to be terminated tomorrow for one reason or another, that would be my signal to hang it up and go into full time retirement so I could spend more time playing with my trains. That being the case, I have no worries about it one way or another. A nice position to be in--still working just because I enjoy working. Of course, the additional $ helps a bit, too!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

"Why don't companies pay attention to their websites?" 
Joe, 

The reason is that many small business owners are not 'web savvy' but their IT guy (or some so-called pal) persuades them they HAVE to have a website. So they dutifully pay to have a website, but they really don't understand what it is for or why they should have one. 

I build them for real estate agents and other small businesses, and it drives me crazy (but I'm out of foam this week,) that they don't pay attention. The links get out of date, the email contact doesn't work, or they forget to pay for the annual hosting fee.


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, I suspect you are right. The two sites I mentioned (OK, I'll name them--Grandt Line and whoever is selling Precision Plastic, I think it's Ozark Miniatures) are not participatory sites like MLS, but rather, business sites, where the firm's products are on sale. So I guess, no one there is minding the web store, so to speak. 

Rambo person, I visit mostly my favorite sites, so I can't comment extensively on the good ones and the bad ones. Among the best, and my personal favorite, which I visit often, is Strobist, which was started by a news photographer named David Hobby, who essentially tries to teach you how to take better synchro-flash photos and better pictures in general. I have learned so much from that site and have been inspired (and awed) by what I see. Go there and see for yourself. 

Finally, Knut, I'm with you. Put all the good archived sutff like the Master Class series and various members' special projects such as loco bashes, etc, on a DVD. I'd buy it.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Keeping a website updated is a full-time job. It really is! (to do it right anyway)


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

> There's a reason I put stuff on my own web site. I can guarantee it will be there. 

I have followed the same path and created a site just to post pictures and how-tos that got lost in the archives. 

Best,
TJ


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 05 May 2011 10:10 AM 
"Why don't companies pay attention to their websites?" 
Joe, 

The reason is that many small business owners are not 'web savvy' but their IT guy (or some so-called pal) persuades them they HAVE to have a website. So they dutifully pay to have a website, but they really don't understand what it is for or why they should have one. 

I build them for real estate agents and other small businesses, and it drives me crazy (but I'm out of foam this week,) that they don't pay attention. The links get out of date, the email contact doesn't work, or they forget to pay for the annual hosting fee. 

Or even worse, there is a "public agency" that I deal with which was locked out of their own website by the contractor that maintained it over some strange reason....oy.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, The information is there only as long as you maintain the site. Loss of interest, illness, or even death usually means the site is neglected and then gone. Not arguing with you, just pointing out nothing is permanent. 

Even big companies such as Best Buy have confusing sites. Wanted to order a game for a gift, just finding it took time. Then went to the order system. Clearly said the shipping address was here. When I checked the order later, my son's address was listed as the shipping address. Have to put some of the information in 2 or 3 times to get it right. Just frustrated this AM.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Keeping a website updated is a full-time job. 
Well, most of mine are part-time jobs (I don't take on big jobs!) The income pays for my trains. With real-estate, the good news is that they are always removing one property and adding another. The bad news is that in a recession the removals are mostly 'withdrawn' properties and there aren't many new ones.


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

what is the best method for a newbie to create a site to begin with?


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

I suppose I should just start another thread on my topic, sorry 
In reference to crappy websites..... there loss, plenty others to pick from that DO want your business


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

what is the best method for a newbie to create a site to begin with? 
John, 

IMHO, The easiest way to prodiuce a (non-crappy, non-foam-inducing) website is through Google Sites. They offer free hosting and a useful utility to build your site. Being google, you can incorporate other Google stuff, like a Picasa slideshow, or a map. Check out www.ebt-in-fn3.info, which cost me $.99 for the first year of the site name (URL) from GoDaddy, which I directed to the full site name at Google. Pretty easy stuff.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Biblegrove RR on 06 May 2011 07:46 AM 
what is the best method for a newbie to create a site to begin with? 





John,
if you want to create a personal garden railroad website, you already have a place to put it! 
being a first class MLS member gives you space to host a webpage and photos..

To actually build a page, I highly recommend "seamonkey"

Seamonkey

It also has a browser, but I dont use that..(I use firefox) I only use seamonkey for the webpage editor..

Back in the 1990's the webpage builder portion of seamonkey was "Netscape composer"..part of the netscape browser package.
It is now updated, and is run by Mozilla, the Firefox people..

I found a youtube video (not mine) that explains the basics fairly well:

Youtube seamonkey demo

I have been using it since 1996 to make all my webpages..(both the original Netscape version, and now the seamonkey version)
its a free download, and pretty easy to use..
the program does 95% of what I need, to make webages..once in awhile I need to actually dig into the HTML code and do some editing, but that is rare,
and most people will never even need to do that..

My MLS webpage started out very basic, and has been evolving for 10 years, and is now:

Scot's webpages



If you have any specific questions, just ask..


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Trains make me froth*, web sites, not so much.... 


*froth.... not a true foamer, but not 'normal' either! 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I use Joomla, a free software, used by many businesses as well as individuals. Very easy to maintain, create, change, and expand. Everything is via web interface. 

I do pay a company to host my site, they have a co-lo (on one of the a main internet backbones) so I get good response. They also back up my site for me. 

It's worth the $100 a year (especially considering the large number of pictures and the 350 pages on my site). 

For me, using something that is proprietary to Google or someone else means I am at their mercy if they want to give up. I have all the HTML code for all my pages. 

Regards, Greg


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