# What would you like to see made in Live Steam



## BNGP10 (Jan 4, 2008)

Ok, wish list time. For me I want to see one engine done, preferably by Aster with correct Stephenson valve motion. Aster seems to like producing engines that were notable in history. How about doing the Rodgers 4-6-0 #382 that J.L. (Casey) Jones rode into history in 1900. The engine has classic turn of the century looks, tall drivers, spoked pilot wheels, beautifull lines, the real whistle that Casey used still exhists in a museum so it could be duplicated on the model. Its a small enough prototype to fill a need for a smaller engine amoung all the monsters they have done in recent years. I know I would sell of several things to buy a kit version of this engine in live steam. I would want to see it with correct valve gear, while it makes the kit more expensive, it makes it more accurate. I am sure I will never see this produced, but I can dream!! Heck, if we are dreaming, make it have a locomotive type boiler with coal firing option! Cheers Mike


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Be nice to see a -4-4-2 also. Especially in the Northwestern version







Later RJD


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

For me, one of the most classic engines of all time is the J1e Hudson. I know Aster made one of these years ago, but they were gas fired and hard to find. Would be nice to see Aster or Accucraft make an alcohol version of this engine while incorporating all they have learned over the years.


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## Rob Meadows (Jan 6, 2008)

Most definitely a rebuilt Merchant Navy or a Peppercorn A1. It would have to be done by Aster because then it would be done right, both visually and internally.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The "General" (4-4-0 of American Civil War fame)


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I would like to see Aster re-release their Schools class. I think the best running engine ever built.

Bob


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Rob Meadows on 01/19/2009 12:40 PM Most definitely a rebuilt Merchant Navy or a Peppercorn A1. It would have to be done by Aster because then it would be done right, both visually and internally. 


Mr Rob - the first has been done by Barrett Engineering, albeit as a kit, and having spoken to the very genttleman concerned about the second in the recent past [see my post re: 'Tornado] I can inform you that it will not happen anytime soon due to a perceived lack of interest for yet another 'green British locomotive' by the US market. 

On the other paw, I would like to have seen a different 'Northern' chosen than the mummified S-2, beautiful though it is. For me, and for personal reasons, it would have to be the SP&S E3 Northern #700, as preserved in full workng order in Portland OR.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Got to agree that a tall-drivered, turn-of-the-century Rogers ten-wheeler would be my first choice. A tall-drivered Atlantic would be good, too. How about the Hiawatha 4-4-2, if it's a classic you want to see? 

Steve


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## F7 (Jan 29, 2008)

I understand that the next locomotive to be built by Aster will be a real monster and it will be a FRENCH four cylinder compound 4-8-4. It will be very expensive and cost as much as a small country.


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## BNGP10 (Jan 4, 2008)

I really think aster has forgotten those of us that cannot afford to spend what a nice car costs, on a live steam engine. Nobody will dispute that what they make are museum qualitry models that can be operated. But they really need to get back to making a few smaller engines at a price point that more can afford. My guess is that Aster is leaving the middle and bottom end of the market to Accucraft and is concentrating on those that have bottomless wallets and way to much bloody money. Cheers Mike


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2009)

>>I would like to see Aster re-release their Schools class. I think the best running engine ever built. 

This would be very difficult to argue against. The Schools is about as basic as they came but have proven to be one of the most bang-for-the-buck engines. One would expect a "new" Schools to be a different animal though. Aside from the simplicity of design the original took liberties with scale and proportion and a good scale rendition of it, especially in 10mm, would actually be a rather hefty beast, for a 4-4-0.


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2009)

>>Aster has forgotten us 

Here we go again. It's all relative. There are some "nice" cars for which the price of an Aster won't buy a tuneup and brake job. Personally I don't think Aster owes me (or you, or the "hobby") anything. A builder of big houses doesn't owe me a bigger house than I can afford or an luxury auto dealer doesn't owe me a nicer car than I can afford, why should anyone expect that of Aster? Oh buggar, I forgot, it's my hobby and I should be entitled to have anything I want available at the price I am willing to pay. I'm almost certain that's written in the Magna Carta or Rosetta Stone or Treaty of Ghent some old thing like that. 

Aster have identified their market niche, where they are very successful, and by unhappy coincidence I am no longer in their niche, just as I am no longer in Porsche's market niche. This doesn't make Aster or Porsche bad boys, no more than it makes me a bad (or lazy) boy for not earning enough to be among current owners. To blame Aster or any maker because I can't afford their product and refer to them disparrangingly, as someone has recently as "Aster Snobby", is rather adolescent.


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I love seeing this topic come up. I for one always loved the bigger engines. Now, finding my place as a wheelchair using live steamer, I have found a new appreciation for the smaller engines. My S-12 is just perfect for me to handle. I can move it safely on the table, flip and roll it around, oil, clean, fill and even carry it on my lap and lift it onto the track. I can't begin to express the satisfaction I find in being independent while steaming. I am sure had I gone after the S-2, my dependence upon other steamers; while we all know how willing steamers are to help another; would have added a layer of frustration to my new found passion.

On this same idea, I spoke briefly with Hans at Diamondhead about the possibility of a smaller engine in the future. I received a quick economics/business lesson, which was most helpful. Roughly for Aster to create a locomotive, they need to achieve $1 Million in sales. The larger more expensive engines are the safer bet for Aster.

That being said:

The thought of owning an early high speed passenger loco is very appealing. One of the ideas I had was the NYC 999. That would be sweet pulling a short consist of over weighted passenger cars.

Then again, did I hear someone say Hiawatha? Thinking it over, I'd be hard pressed to find a better choice than a 4-4-2, no matter who she is.

p.s. I think I'm gonna go and research the Hiawatha for a bit.


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

This is an interesting question. While there are numerous locomotives that have not been made in Live Steam, when I think about it I tend to come up with those already mentioned; ie, those that have already been produced but no longer available from the producers. 

To the list I would add the Berk and the Jumbo both sold of which are sold out.

This clearly means the folks that have been making the selections for production are doing a darn good job.

In addition, I would like to see the Roundhouse engines currently available with radio control only as manual engines.


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Regarding smaller engines and Aster - in 2002 and 2003 they released the B20, a small 0-4-0 Japanese prototype. So small engines certainly aren't out of the question for Aster. Now I'm not going to tell Aster how to run their business, they seem to be doing a fine job, and I do enjoy the large engines, even if I can't afford them. But, as much as I enjoy the large engines (and dream of getting more), I'm starting to appreciate small engines more....inexpensive (relatively) to acquire, easier to maintain and transport, and much less demanding on a layout - (both in terms of min radius and tolerance of track irregularities). 

Fortunately we have at least 4 large commercial manufactures of quality 45m gauge live steam locomotives - Aster, Accucraft, Regner, and Roundhouse, each with a different product offering. Then there are the small shops offering limited runs, modifications, etc. I'd have to say the hobby has probably never been better. 

Still....to paraphrase Crumudge.....I want a Porsche (Aster) for the price of a Yugo (Hartland?), 'cuz it says so in the Magna Carta!


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Would like to see Aster make the *Erie Triplex*. That my friends, would be a *BEAST*!!







I wonder if Aster could make one that would actually run well. The real ones did not. But, they sure are something to look at.


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes Steve, a Triplex would be a Porsche I'd be happy to watch.


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## sschaer (Jan 2, 2008)

i'd die for a re-run of asters live steam bigboy...


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

It’s always interesting and useful to hear what customers really want and we do listen seriously to what we are told either off-board or on public forums like MLS. So if its British prototypes that you like then let me know.

Meanwhile the new Aster GWR Castle class loco has been a great success with many kits currently under construction. 
Andrew


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

if its British prototypes that you like 


While not an Aster, I wonder why Accucraft hasn't made a live steam version of the A3 "Flying Scotsman". They've just announced another run (go get your sparky now,) so they have plenty of chassis and detail parts. 

Andrew - why not a V2 or B1 mixed traffic loco? To me (a staunch LNER fan,) the Castles and Kings look the same. Oh, the V2 looks like an A3 to the none-discerning eye? 

I agree with a lot of sentiment that a small to mid-size engine would be nice. NYC 999 is an interesting option, as is the 'Hiawatha' (funny how I usually agree with Kent - maybe it's because my SA number is 4472 !)


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

Andrew, 
One that leaps immediately to mind is the City of Truro. A beautiful loco with a substantial history.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Saddleback. 
Challenger. 
Live Steam Combine or early steam Interurban.

_*And of course, the most obvious choice; Dwight's Cab Forward!!!*_


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I would like to see aster make a bunch of the earlier engines, The lion is a fun engine to run and I have a ball running the one I have. Aster made a ton of them and the lion is sold out, thunderbolt is still around.

Here are some fun ideas for engines not to hurt the pocketbook much that would be fun from aster,

John Bull 




Stephenson Rocket 



Planet 

Have a Victorian roundhouse full of these types would be impressive.


I wouldn't mine a rerun of the Aster Jumbo! 


I pick aster for these small engines cause they seem to have them running like swiss watches which I think is required to run a locomotive that is so small. 
Also make sure you include some type of axle pump, these boilers are very small. (maybe it runs on the axle of the tender)


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Another thought: if it's a big locomotive that's wanted, then how about a Norfolk & Western J-class? Coal-fired, of course.


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

How 'bout a Pennsy I-1 2-10-0? Or a Reading T-1 4-8-4? Examples of both are preserved. 

Or maybe a Selkirk? Or pull out all the stops and go for a Norfolk and Western Y-6b? 

If you like British prototypes, I'll guess that nobody's offered a "Clan" thus far, or a Standard 4 or 5 4-6-0 (a mite controversial, those, the design was not everyone's cup of tea). Stanier 8F's (2-8-0) are nice. 

IMHO, Aster will continue to concentrate on the higher end of the market (if it ain't broke...), so they'll stick to (big) standard gauge tender engines, that's where the money is.


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

This is all good input so let me respond as follows.

Pete T. The trouble with a LNER V2 or B1 (or later A1 and A2) is that are similar to the Flying Scotsman which we have done in both LNER and BR styles.

Curmudge. The City of Truro is an excellent choice but it has been produced in huge quantities by Barratt Engineering over the last 25 years so would be a less than good choice for Aster.

Andrew F. I like the idea of Rocket but the boiler capacity would be tiny so I think that is a non starter. Sad.

There is no shortage of Aster Schools since they made over 3000 in 1975 and so anyone who wants one can find a good example for not too much money.

Let me say again that the new


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

*The Reading T-1 could be delivered in nice C&O yellow scheme that it ran with on fan trips in the 70's.*


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

For the US prototyypes - classic US Streamliners - the Dreyfuss Hudson is pure art but I'd settle for NWW J 611, B&O Royal Blue, Commodore Vanderbilt, Class A Hiawatha, Class F7 etc etc. I know Aster did the Commodare Vanderbilt but only in an electric version.

As I now live in the pacific NW, I'd love to see some more logging locos - especially the Heisler. I drive past a small railroad museum in Snoqualamine fairly often and usually stop to look wistfully at the sad Heisler that is slowly rusting away. 

For British - I'm not so sure. I accept Andrew's analysis that the Castle is light years ahead of King GV, but they do look really similar and I've yet to be persuaded to part with my money. 

Robert


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert - Any B&O President Class Pacific would be in my book, especially the streamlined Cincinnatian or Royal Blue. Again, I'm afraid the size of the loco would be on the boarder of "Too Big" for me to handle alone. However, to have a B&O, I'll learn to ask for help.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Mr Robert - If you are not in G1MRA see iif you can borrow a copy of the latest G1 newsletter and read Dave Stick's building report on the 'Castle'.

THAT'll convince ya if nothing else does. Even better, watch it on Andrew's video on Youtube.

For copyright reasons you'll have to look it up yourself.

A LOT of technical water has gone under the bridge since KGV.

tac
http://www.ovgrs,org/


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 01/21/2009 7:42 AM
if its British prototypes that you like 


While not an Aster, I wonder why Accucraft hasn't made a live steam version of the A3 "Flying Scotsman". They've just announced another run (go get your sparky now,) so they have plenty of chassis and detail parts. 

Andrew - why not a V2 or B1 mixed traffic loco? To me (a staunch LNER fan,) the Castles and Kings look the same. Oh, the V2 looks like an A3 to the none-discerning eye? 

I agree with a lot of sentiment that a small to mid-size engine would be nice. NYC 999 is an interesting option, as is the 'Hiawatha' (funny how I usually agree with Kent - maybe it's because my SA number is 4472 !)


First of all, there is a lot of work to make an live-steam A3 from a basic electric version, but it will probably happen.

Secondly, other manufacturers already build a B1, albeit in kit form, but you could always short cut and get one of many builders to make you one.

Thiird and lastly, if you think that a V2 [a 2-6-2 ] looks like an A3 [a 4-6-2 pacific]...........

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is an unique stream line steam locomotive, just happen to come across it:
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/pics/portargentina.jpg 
Seems that there are probably much more of these that could be very interesting to hobbyists and to the business of making the hobby continue into the 
"future."


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

Andrew, 
Re Truro . . . . Ahhhhh you wanted something that would actually SELL in goodly quantities . . . My bad!


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert

All GWR 4-6-0 tender locomotives have a strong family resemblance since the GWR designed a near perfect locomotive (the Star class) in the early 1900’s and with various modifications stayed with that design for the next 50 years. 

The Castle class grew from the Star class and the King was basically a bigger Castle but lost the athletic and compact looks of its smaller brother

In the UK the Castles have always been the rail fans true icons of God’s Wonderful Railway. The Kings have always been regarded as the Castle’s overweight big brother. 

The Aster King has always been a bit of a troublesome loco; difficult to build and maintain and not always easy to drive. The less said about the Aster King's wrong colour and heavy liniing (stripping) the better. The Castle has been a complete rethink of the 4 cylinder design and kits built so far have not had the troubles that the King has faced. On the track the


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all, not sure why my notes are getting all this garbage incorporated into the text. Any advice appreciated. Here is a clean version. I Hope!![/i]

Robert

All GWR 4-6-0 tender locomotives have a strong family resemblance since the GWR designed a near perfect locomotive (the Star class) in the early 1900’s and with various modifications stayed with that design for the next 50 years. 

The Castle class grew from the Star class and the King was basically a bigger Castle but lost the athletic and compact looks of its smaller brother

In the UK the Castles have always been the rail fans true icons of God’s Wonderful Railway. The Kings have always been regarded as the Castle’s overweight big brother. 

The Aster King has always been a bit of a troublesome loco; difficult to build and maintain and not always easy to drive. The less said about the Aster King's wrong colour and heavy liniing (stripping) the better. The Castle has been a complete rethink of the 4 cylinder design and kits built so far have not had the troubles that the King has faced. On the track the Aster Castle is much freer and more rewarding to run and the beat (stack talk) has been sensational. Twenty years have elapsed since the Aster King was introduced and you can really see the difference in the Aster Castle. Trust me on this one Robert, build an Aster Castle – you will not be disappointed!


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll look for the report. The KGV performs well as this video I made before I moved away from the bay area shows. She needs a little blower on all the time to keep pressure up but generally works well so I'd be fascinated to hear of the technical improvements. 


Robert


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert

A nice video but your KGV is only pulling 5 coaches whereas the new Castle will handle 10+ without a slip.

The technical improvements include 

1. A new boiler with two external water tubes. Much more steam generated.

2. Stronger valve gear and better valve events.

3. Oil tank under cab floor.

4. Removable fuel tank.

5 Better and clearer cab layout - no ugly controls outside the cab.

6. Better springing.

7. Cast iron wheels which are not insulated and not prove to loosing their tires.

8. Improved exhaust flow and so better exhaust beat.

9. Axle pump which keeps up with the steam utilised.

I am not knocking the Aster King, just saying that the Castle is 20 years better. 
Using a similar arguement we could say that Windoews 95 was a great piece of software but the world has moved on and now Windows XP is a whole lot better. Win 95 is the Aster King - XP is the Castle. Same family but now better. Hope we are not getting to set off all those Mac users!!!


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By AsterUK on 01/21/2009 1:38 PM
Robert

A nice video but your KGV is only pulling 5 coaches whereas the new Castle will handle 10+ without a slip.

The technical improvements include 

1. A new boiler with two external water tubes. Much more steam generated.

2. Stronger valve gear and better valve events.

3. Oil tank under cab floor.

4. Removable fuel tank.

5 Better and clearer cab layout - no ugly controls outside the cab.

6. Better springing.

7. Cast iron wheels which are not insulated and not prove to loosing their tires.

8. Improved exhaust flow and so better exhaust beat.

9. Axle pump which keeps up with the steam utilised.

I am not knocking the Aster King, just saying that the Castle is 20 years better. 
Using a similar arguement we could say that Windoews 95 was a great piece of software but the world has moved on and now Windows XP is a whole lot better. Win 95 is the Aster King - XP is the Castle. Same family but now better. Hope we are not getting to set off all those Mac users!!!











Sensitive subject - our most recent operating system is Windows Vista soon to be replaced by Windows 7. Problem is that a lot of our users still prefer the older Windows/XP

Robert


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all, not sure why my notes are getting all this garbage incorporated into the text. Any advice appreciated. Here is a clean version. I Hope!!
The new editor has a bug which corrupts emoticons (smileys) when one edits a post containing them. The only way around that is to either (a) delete them and re-insert them during the edit process, or (b) not to use them. It's a PITA I know, and the developer hopefully has a fix in the works.


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dwight, no more Smileys for me then! 

Funnily emough, it seemed to be the word "Aster" which set off the problems. Although I have used a few smileys since not all MLSers understand British humor. 
And hey - Windows 7 - you read it here on MLS first! Well I did anyway! 


Andrew


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Funnily emough, it seemed to be the word "Aster" which set off the problems. 
Don't say that! Dave Young will claim that I set it up that way on purpose!


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey, since we have gasoline-powered dismals and electric powered steam-otline, I vote for a Live Steam GG1.


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Since I can't afford a Porsche, perhaps Accucraft would consider taking a short siesta from west coast steam and NG, to look at the possibility of representin' the East Coast. 

Hiawatha 
Any B&O Pacific 
NYC #999 
PRR E6s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gifRR_E6s_1067.jpg


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 01/21/2009 3:16 PM
Funnily emough, it seemed to be the word "Aster" which set off the problems. 
Don't say that! Dave Young will claim that I set it up that way on purpose!










Didn't you? LOL Dave


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

This topic comes around every once in a while and is one of my favorate topics. As I think about it there are more "likeable" live steam engines already out there than I will ever be able to have. The list continues to grow and grow.

Of those now out there I would like to have (save for hurricane Ike and the current economy I would get one) are the Castle that Aster UK refers to, the Roundhouse Silver Lady Anne, and the upcomming Accrucraft K36, which I would like coal fired.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

I would love to see a CB&Q O5B 4-8-4 and a S4A Hudson. Two of the most handsome engines ever to grace the rails IMHO. A CB&Q wood waycar (yes, that is what the Q called them) would be whipped cream on the cake. 
N


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Youse Guys are something else. 

You are all asking fore a NEW US prototype locomotive. Well guess what, you need to buy up the ones that are on the shelf at Aster in Japan, the Aster UK and Aster USA warehouses before Hans is going to fork over HIS money to build another engine. You all talk about NEW engines. You brow beat Aster into believing that a USRA Mike woulsd "sell like hot cakes" if they would bring it in at a lower price point. BS!!! The last two are being shipped to the US from Japan this week; after HOW MANY years?? There are Berks available, just ask around. Probably sitting in the UK if no where else. What is wrong with the Accucraft SP F-4/F-5? It is reasonably priced so should be an instant hit, especially for those with a stable of existing SP power. You ask for a re run of the Schools; they are not hard to find. Redone with the newer technology available it is a $5K locomotive, nearly twice the price of a used one in good condition. If done by accucraft it woulld still be $3700. ALWAYS remember that the engineering design cost of a locomotive that has to be able to be assembled from a kit by a moderately skilled individual costs at least twice that of a locomotive that will be assembled ONCE in a factory setting, and eventually taken apart by someone with a high level of skill, because it was never designed to be taken apart [easily]. Add the development of the assembly drawings and instructions for a kit and you add at least an additional $30K in sunk cost. Divide that into 250-300 locos and those little books are relatively expensive. 

IF the objective is a smaller eastern road locomotive that I think would sell well [which is absolutely essential when asking someone else to fund the development of 'your' locomotive] I would suggest a heavy 2-8-0 such as the PRR H10sa or a similar NYC engine. The alternative is a 4-6-0 that was used in dual service, short freights and moderate sized passenger trains. I will NOT recommend my favorite northeast loco, the Central Vermont 2-10-4 with vandy tender, because I am not convinced enough people would buy a model of the smallest Texas ever built. I would like a PRR J1/C&O T-1 but again, we are talking a very large loco with a BIGGER tender that would not be at home on many layouts. So it may not be economically feasible unless the shelf collectors started sucking them up. Guess I will just have to save for an S-2 [GN NOT PRR] and an F-5 and quit worrying about telling Jerry and Hans how to spendTHEIR money. 

Regards


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 01/21/2009 8:55 PM
Youse Guys are something else. 

You are all asking fore a NEW US prototype locomotive. Well guess what, you need to buy up the ones that are on the shelf at Aster in Japan, the Aster UK and Aster USA warehouses before Hans is going to fork over HIS money to build another engine. You all talk about NEW engines. You brow beat Aster into believing that a USRA Mike woulsd "sell like hot cakes" if they would bring it in at a lower price point. BS!!! The last two are being shipped to the US from Japan this week; after HOW MANY years?? There are Berks available, just ask around. Probably sitting in the UK if no where else. What is wrong with the Accucraft SP F-4/F-5? It is reasonably priced so should be an instant hit, especially for those with a stable of existing SP power. You ask for a re run of the Schools; they are not hard to find. Redone with the newer technology available it is a $5K locomotive, nearly twice the price of a used one in good condition. If done by accucraft it woulld still be $3700. ALWAYS remember that the engineering design cost of a locomotive that has to be able to be assembled from a kit by a moderately skilled individual costs at least twice that of a locomotive that will be assembled ONCE in a factory setting, and eventually taken apart by someone with a high level of skill, because it was never designed to be taken apart [easily]. Add the development of the assembly drawings and instructions for a kit and you add at least an additional $30K in sunk cost. Divide that into 250-300 locos and those little books are relatively expensive. 

IF the objective is a smaller eastern road locomotive that I think would sell well [which is absolutely essential when asking someone else to fund the development of 'your' locomotive] I would suggest a heavy 2-8-0 such as the PRR H10sa or a similar NYC engine. The alternative is a 4-6-0 that was used in dual service, short freights and moderate sized passenger trains. I will NOT recommend my favorite northeast loco, the Central Vermont 2-10-4 with vandy tender, because I am not convinced enough people would buy a model of the smallest Texas ever built. I would like a PRR J1/C&O T-1 but again, we are talking a very large loco with a BIGGER tender that would not be at home on many layouts. So it may not be economically feasible unless the shelf collectors started sucking them up. Guess I will just have to save for an S-2 [GN NOT PRR] and an F-5 and quit worrying about telling Jerry and Hans how to spendTHEIR money. 

Regards 




I have to admit to complete astonishment as to why the Mike has not sold out. I have two and they run great. Of course, I also am in wonderment that no one has seconded my suggestion for a model of the "General"... apparently those of us with particular tastes in locomotives are few and singular.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr. Rivet......................

You start off by saying how "we" are "Something else", for stating our dream loco's. Then you explain the economics of:
Getting Aster to build a engine of which I whole hearty understand and agree with you on. (Thanks Han's for having the guts to do it). And then "you" do what you tell "us" not to do and name the engines that "you" would like to see. Lighten up, or at least be consistent.







I know Aster should never build a Erie Triplex (That was my suggestion) but it is fun to think about such things.


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## BNGP10 (Jan 4, 2008)

I am supprised that the Aster Mike didnt sell out sooner, but then again, while the price point was good for an Aster, how many home garden railways have the wide radius curves to handle an 8 coupled engine. I would bet there are far more with LGB R1 and R2 curves out there state side. Mine is a mix of both. I also prefer coal or gas firing, but will deal with meths if necessary. I would also love to see the General done in live steam along with my ICRR Rodges 4-6-0 #382. Doing the smaller engine of one that has a place in the history books, would not only appeal to the operators of smaller layouts, but to the collectors that might be into civil war era stuff and want an nice piece on the mantle. Both of those engines could be done with slip eccentric, or what I would prefer, full Stephenson motion between the frames. To bad wood burners dont scale down to 1:32nd as the General burned wood and not coal during the war years, only got converted to coal after it was rebuilt following the war. That would be interesting to keep up feeding a boiler scale split wood logs! P.S. I would love a NKP Berk, but for one I cant run it at home, and to it costs more than most of my vehicles we own. Till the global economy gets its act together, espicaly here in the states, I suspect we wont see much in new model anouncements for a bit. Cheers Mike


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Ooo yuck! Slip eccentrics? BLEAH! That'd be a complete sale killer. 

Alcohol or gas burner with a fake wood load would not bother me, but 1:29 would be a total sale killer also.

If it can't be made right, don't bother!

BTW: I have been in the cab of the General... granted it is "cold, stuffed and mounted" in the Kennesaw museum, but it was GRAND to stand in the cab and look down the boiler barrel and walk back into the tender and such. Beautiful machine and worthy of the name GENERAL.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Post deleted.


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Just for the record, the Aster USRA Mikado will run on 2 metre curves (6 foot 6 inches). It may not look great on such a tight curve but this is a powerful loco. The last few kits are nearly gone.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave -- Use Coal on 01/21/2009 7:07 PM
This topic comes around every once in a while and is one of my favorate topics. As I think about it there are more "likeable" live steam engines already out there than I will ever be able to have. The list continues to grow and grow.

Of those now out there I would like to have (save for hurricane Ike and the current economy I would get one) are the Castle that Aster UK refers to, the Roundhouse Silver Lady Anne, and the upcomming Accrucraft K36, which I would like coal fired.





Dave, I have to agree with that. Aster continues to make some beautiful models and if Accucraft makes everything they have on their plate I will be bankrupt anyway. The only thing I don't see on their list is that Westside Lumber Shay in live steam. What happenned to that? They made the electric version and all those beautiful log cars to go with it.


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Why not a 4-4-0 with a reasonable price tag. Two that come to mind are the NYC&HR RR 999 and 870 class. These have big boilers and share many parts. The 870 was a long time branch line runner and some were used by other railroads. The 999 has some history and could probably be built to run like the schools in terms of reliability. 

Jack


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

I am surprised that the Aster Mike didn't sell out sooner

My opinion is that with the Mikado, Aster delivered what was asked for. A awesome engine at a lower price point. They were able to do this because of the lack of detail. When people saw it, they did however mis this detail................thus the slow sale through. Proof of this is how the Southern Mikado with axle pump and all the usual Aster detail sold out rather fast. Aster did offer a detail kit and axle pump for the basic Mikado. This was after many had already built their kits or had purchased their ready to run and are hard to add (for most) after the original build.

All this being said, the Aster Mikado is one of the finest running Loco's Aster has ever built and will pull like a mule. The video posted shows this. The three that run at my track on a regular basis show this too. If the builder of the kit has done their job correctly, they are just about bullet proof. A great engine.


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## aankus (Jan 5, 2008)

Andrew, 
Not to get off subject..but. 
What is that green slab material that your raised track is placed on ??? 
Can it be obtained in curved pieces ?


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

OK, I'll 2nd Semper Vaporo's suggestion for a standard gauge 4-4-0 like the General. While THE General would be great, just something close enough that could be made into the General, the Texan, the Senator.....take your pic.


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## Joel779 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mark Scrivener on 01/24/2009 1:15 AM
OK, I'll 2nd Semper Vaporo's suggestion for a standard gauge 4-4-0 like the General. While THE General would be great, just something close enough that could be made into the General, the Texan, the Senator.....take your pic. 

Ah, so now we are kitbashing Asters, That takes a lotta nerve. Seriously it would be interesting to hear how many Aster designs have been 'bashed' into other locomotives. I know there was Jim Hadden's 'Frank the Tank' built from a Frank S, and Ross Schlabach's C&O Kanawaha built from a Berkshire. How about others?


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey Joel - its Saturday and you're in France - why are you on the internet? 

That said, turning a standard gauge 4-4-0 into the General or any other famous 4-4-0 from that era would hardly be a bash...simply a paint and detail job. Kinda like (dare I say) Aster's black Mikado that could be made into any number of Mikados. 

Oh, and turning the number plate upside down on your Berk doesn't count as a kit bash ;-)


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

aankus, I am not entirely sure which 'green slab' material you are thinking about. However, a lot of the track is laid on Roofing Felt which is bitumen based flexible material which is water tight and used to cover the roofs of garden sheds and similar buildings in the UK. I don't know whether this stuff is available in the US but it is very popular here for garden railways since the surface can be purchase with a fine green / grey or brown grit which kinda looks like track ballast. Andrew


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The difficulty in bashing any of the present 4-4-0 in live steam to be the General would be fitting the large drivers. The drivers of present locos barely reach to the bottom of the boiler, but the General the tops of the drivers is even with the center line of the boiler. The cylinders would also have to be repositioned to allow larger drivers to keep them in-line with the axles. I am sure someone could do it, but it is not just a paint job and decorations.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Russian P-36:












Regards,
Bob


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

WOW That blue can't be right, I need to re calibrate my monitor !!!


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 01/24/2009 1:46 PM WOW That blue can't be right, I need to re calibrate my monitor !!! 




I assure you, Sir, that the shade of blue you think it is is exactly what it is. 'Hurt-the-eye' blue is how it translates into English.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

The P-36 comes in a more sedate green - but why be sedate? 

Bob


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## Joel779 (Jan 2, 2008)

Easy cheezy. Just grab me a Reno, get out the lathe and torch, and vola....


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Amazing how well that lathe and torch work on ink on paper.


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 01/24/2009 12:51 PM
The difficulty in bashing any of the present 4-4-0 in live steam to be the General would be fitting the large drivers. The drivers of present locos barely reach to the bottom of the boiler, but the General the tops of the drivers is even with the center line of the boiler. The cylinders would also have to be repositioned to allow larger drivers to keep them in-line with the axles. I am sure someone could do it, but it is not just a paint job and decorations.




Agreed. That is why I suggested a "standard gauge 4-4-0. The only live steam 4-4-0's I'm aware of in 45mm gauge are narrow gauge models - which would present a challenge for most of us.....Joel obviously excepted ;-)


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

That there 'General' would be a pretty small model in 1/32nd gauge 1 scale.......

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2009)

I would like to see more British tank style engines made. And at a good price!


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, this would be my number 1 pick:

DB 05 001:













Bob


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2009)

Now thats an interesting engine! I bet you could make a wood form of it, then use the wood form to make a fiber glass shell. Cut out the windows ect. Then add brass details. That would be sweet!


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

*This could be Bob's steam project for next year! Tender powered of course!*


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## Joel779 (Jan 2, 2008)

This makes the 'Spam Can' downright ornimental! I am HOPING those are sliding windows along the drivers for oiling and inspections. Maintaince must be fun.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

The 'Flying Frankfurter'............trouble is, there's zilch to show that it's a steam locomotive......where are all those lovely wiggly bits? 

BTW- a Swiss member of the G1MRA has actually built the blue version of this record-breaking loco... 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

"I am sure I will never see this produced, but I can dream!! Heck, if we are dreaming, make it have a locomotive type boiler with coal firing option! Cheers Mike"





Mike, you query about steam dreams and coal firing fits into our next project. The reality in making this dream come true starts today. We know of one other conversion from electric to steam done in England (alcohol), this one will be coal fired :

Gone are the electronics, next the cam and gear box. 











Background 



The Class J's could pull a 15-car passenger train at 110 mph across level terrain. The Class J #611 was built at a cost of $251,544 and began service on May 29, 1950. Class J's could pull a 15-car passenger train at 110 mph across level terrain. It pulled the last steam passenger train on October 24, 1959 from Roanoke, VA to Bluefield, WV and back. 
The J's operated daily for 18 years between Cincinnati and Norfolk, pulling the passenger trains The Powhatan Arrow, Pocahontas, and the Cavalier, and between Monroe and Bristol pulling the Tennessean, the Pelican, and the Birmingham Special.
Statistics:
Engine and tender length: 109 ft. 2 in.
Height: 16 ft.
Engine weight: 494,000 lbs - 247 tons
Horsepower: 5,200 Maximum
Tender coal capacity: 22,000 gallons
Engine and loaded tender = 436 tons
Grate area: 107.7 sq.ft.
Driving wheels: 70 in.
Tractive effort: 80,000 lbs.

The most modern, most powerful, and strongest of all Northerns built into the 1950's


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 01/25/2009 1:08 PM
The 'Flying Frankfurter'............trouble is, there's zilch to show that it's a steam locomotive......where are all those lovely wiggly bits? 

BTW- a Swiss member of the G1MRA has actually built the blue version of this record-breaking loco... 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


WOW! I didn't know the Guiness Book of World Records had a category for Ugliest Locomotive!


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## Joel779 (Jan 2, 2008)

For all you 'Cab Forward' buffs out there, we could do this version...


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

And you guys thought the first one was ugly!


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## rusty1219 (Jan 17, 2009)

Anything Australian particularly New South Wales, granted we already have the AD60
but for something a little smaller a Z12 class is hard to go past


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Mark Scrivener on 01/26/2009 1:18 AM
And you guys thought the first one was ugly!


Hah! Call THAT ugly?

Sir, I have not yet begun to ug. Take a lool at THIS baby and THEN talk to me about ugly.

http://www.bulleidlocos.org.uk/_ldr/ldrClass.aspx

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob
I would of thought you might have chosen:
http://www.germansteam.co.uk/FastestLoco/fastestloco.html



Posted By Bob Pope on 01/25/2009 8:57 AM
Actually, this would be my number 1 pick:

DB 05 001:













Bob


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

This has been an interesting thread, however for me it casts too wide a net. It's not just what engine in modeled, but how it's offered. Kit vs only RTR, fuel type, and price. I would like to see, if I were in a position to add to my collection, A kit with duel fuel alcohol and coal, Maybe a Hudson, Mountain,a Heavy Mikado, or another Northern. The coal firing option will limit the choices. Back to reality, I hope to snag an S-2 before they are all gone.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles, 

I'm not sure what color the 05 002 was when it was in service. The red on the 05 001 looks great to me. 

Bob


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Joel, your CF
and 
Bob, your BF 05 001 nominations
both surprise me because one of the fascinations of a steam locomotive, is that the mechanics are on the outside so their movement and interactions can be observed when in motion. Although both your nominated locomotives are unique and fascinatinating in their own way, having their mechanics in a shell takes away my enjoyment of a steam locomotive. Most mechanical things have their moving parts hidden and lack character, but not a moving rod or geared engine. I vote for a 7/8ths scale locomotive with no aerodynamic shell to hide the guts.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Carl, 

Remember that I like Diesel Streamliners and these German locomotives are close cousins. All my current steam locomotives have exposed mechanisms. It would be nice to have something different - something that makes you look twice to see what makes it tick. 

I'm sure a model of the 05 001 will never see production. As with the diesels, if I want something out of the norm I'll just have to build it myself. 

Regards, 
Bob


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Bob Pope on 01/26/2009 7:37 AM Carl, Remember that I like Diesel Streamliners and these German locomotives are close cousins. All my current steam locomotives have exposed mechanisms. It would be nice to have something different - something that makes you look twice to see what makes it tick. I'm sure a model of the 05 001 will never see production. As with the diesels, if I want something out of the norm I'll just have to build it myself. 

Regards, 
Bob


If I'm going to fork out $5000+ for a steam locomotive, I sure as **** want to see what I'm paying for with LOTS of wiggly bits and pipework, pumps, and all the usual steam paraphernalia. A streamlined steam locomotive could be driven by electricity for all you know, and with a half-way decent sound system and one of Mr Wolf's chuff-in-time systems, who would know?

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac, 

Please recall that the name of this thread is 'What would you like to see made in Live Steam'. 

It would be pretty boring if we all had the same answer to the question. 

Regards, 
Bob


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob. 

You build what you like  

I'd love to see that big streamlined monster thundering round at DH and maybe taking the pulling prize as well. Don't let these guys "shoot" you down


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Bob Pope on 01/26/2009 9:26 AM
Tac, 

Please recall that the name of this thread is 'What would you like to see made in Live Steam'. 

It would be pretty boring if we all had the same answer to the question. 

Regards, 
Bob


True.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Rod, 

Glad you made it back safely, and thanks for the gun reference. 

The steam locomotive will be streamlined, but will have one powered axle (spun by a geared oscillator). We'll see if I can pull this off! 

Bob


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 

I believe 005 02 was painted in blue when in service. Although I don't recall ever seeing a colour photograph of the engine.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the information Ryan. 

Actually, anything I make will be in the Lake Hall and Highgrove black and tan. I'm not making another set of passenger cars! 

But the red on the 05 001 looks great - I almost painted the diesels red. 

Bob


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 01/26/2009 9:50 AM
Posted By Bob Pope on 01/26/2009 9:26 AM
Tac, 

Please recall that the name of this thread is 'What would you like to see made in Live Steam'. 

It would be pretty boring if we all had the same answer to the question. 

Regards, 
Bob


True.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/



Yes, that is true, but if everybody listed the exact same locomotive, some manufacturer might get a burr under their blanket and make it! ))


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## vmsysprog (Jul 2, 2008)

It's nice to dream, but the reality of things is - what can be produced that will sell? My understanding is that Hans is the guy in the U.S. that has produced or at least had significant input into the last two or three US prototype engines. From doing a high percentage of the research to fronting the money. In these economic times whose going to take a chance on a maybe? I think the Mikado's are a case in point. One of the engines I'd like to see made (and previously mentioned) is a N&W J. Some consider this a streamlined engine. I don't. I think there is enough moving parts to make it interesting. With all due respect to Hans, it's my understanding that stream line engines are not his favorite. (Although, I'd consider a SP 4449 about as streamlined as a J but I don't know if Hans was involved with the 4449). That leads me to my 2nd choice the UP 844. There has been enough knowledge gained from the previous engines, x-8-x wheel arrangement that this would fit with the current pattern of what is being produced. ( I LOVE that GN S2 Vandy tender). A 3rd choice, which had it's seed planted within the last 6 months or so, is the NYC Niagara with long distance tender. What would really be neat on this engine is if the S2 version (with real working poppit valves) would be produced). It's a tough decision but I'd go with the 844 in two-tone gray. Oh, and an aux. water tender painted in armour yellow would be the icing on the cake, but also adds more to the price. It's always something.  
Steve


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## Joel779 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By weaverc on 01/26/2009 7:26 AM
Joel, your CF
and 
Bob, your BF 05 001 nominations
both surprise me because one of the fascinations of a steam locomotive, is that the mechanics are on the outside so their movement and interactions can be observed when in motion. Although both your nominated locomotives are unique and fascinatinating in their own way, having their mechanics in a shell takes away my enjoyment of a steam locomotive. Most mechanical things have their moving parts hidden and lack character, but not a moving rod or geared engine. I vote for a 7/8ths scale locomotive with no aerodynamic shell to hide the guts.





Carl and all,

Sorry, didn't mean to hit a sore point, I think we should have re-named the thread 'truely unusual locomotives'. As was stated, if all we built were the 'normal' stuff, this hobby wouild get pretty boring pretty fast. The NG guys pull out all the stops when it comes to 'unique' engines to model, while us SG folk have to follow the standard rod driven format of the big heavyweight machines. While creating a kit of the BF 05 would certainly have limited appeal, I can see where this could be a very unique scratch build, and with the 'windows open' there would be wiggly bits for all to see. That would just add to the mistique of this engine. I personally think some of the streamliners of the 50's were works of art and would be quick to nominate any of them.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Joel779 on 01/26/2009 10:58 PM
Posted By weaverc on 01/26/2009 7:26 AM
Joel, your CF
and 
Bob, your BF 05 001 nominations
both surprise me because one of the fascinations of a steam locomotive, is that the mechanics are on the outside so their movement and interactions can be observed when in motion. Although both your nominated locomotives are unique and fascinatinating in their own way, having their mechanics in a shell takes away my enjoyment of a steam locomotive. Most mechanical things have their moving parts hidden and lack character, but not a moving rod or geared engine. I vote for a 7/8ths scale locomotive with no aerodynamic shell to hide the guts.





Carl and all,

Sorry, didn't mean to hit a sore point, I think we should have re-named the thread 'truely unusual locomotives'. As was stated, if all we built were the 'normal' stuff, this hobby wouild get pretty boring pretty fast. The NG guys pull out all the stops when it comes to 'unique' engines to model, while us SG folk have to follow the standard rod driven format of the big heavyweight machines. While creating a kit of the BF 05 would certainly have limited appeal, I can see where this could be a very unique scratch build, and with the 'windows open' there would be wiggly bits for all to see. That would just add to the mistique of this engine. I personally think some of the streamliners of the 50's were works of art and would be quick to nominate any of them. 



Oooo now, if'n ya'll wants UNUSUAL... then I'd vote for either of the following:

Fontaines Folly (aka Fontaines Fiasco)

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/fontaine/fontaine.htm

Holman Absurdity (aka Holman Horror)

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/holman/holman.htm


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## Rob Meadows (Jan 6, 2008)

As was stated, if all we built were the 'normal' stuff, this hobby wouild get pretty boring pretty fast. 

Never was there an untruer staatment! I love the sound of steam and the visual delights of seeing the wheels turn and the running gear in motion. This hobby will never be boring, no matter what is produced.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that we know Canadian engines will sell, not just in Canada but everywhere else including the US, look how the Accucraft CP Hudson is selling, I think a Canadian Pacific Selkirk would be a nice engine.  It is better looking than a Texas but with the 2-10-4 arraignment it could be "kit bashed" into a Texas for those that wanted to.  Early on in this thread a Selkirk was mentioned so there must be other people out there thinking about it.
Then of course there is Canadian National’s "Bullet-Nose Betties”.  This is a Mountain class locomotive, 4-8-2.  Hans has said others have asked for this engine.  Neither of these have been made before, another plus.  Either of these engines would easily fit the million dollar number Aster seems to need.


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

Posted By vmsysprog on 01/26/2009 12:41 PM
It's nice to dream, but the reality of things is - what can be produced that will sell? My understanding is that Hans is the guy in the U.S. that has produced or at least had significant input into the last two or three US prototype engines. From doing a high percentage of the research to fronting the money. In these economic times whose going to take a chance on a maybe? I think the Mikado's are a case in point. One of the engines I'd like to see made (and previously mentioned) is a N&W J. Some consider this a streamlined engine. I don't. I think there is enough moving parts to make it interesting. With all due respect to Hans, it's my understanding that stream line engines are not his favorite. (Although, I'd consider a SP 4449 about as streamlined as a J but I don't know if Hans was involved with the 4449). That leads me to my 2nd choice the UP 844. There has been enough knowledge gained from the previous engines, x-8-x wheel arrangement that this would fit with the current pattern of what is being produced. ( I LOVE that GN S2 Vandy tender). A 3rd choice, which had it's seed planted within the last 6 months or so, is the NYC Niagara with long distance tender. What would really be neat on this engine is if the S2 version (with real working poppit valves) would be produced). It's a tough decision but I'd go with the 844 in two-tone gray. Oh, and an aux. water tender painted in armour yellow would be the icing on the cake, but also adds more to the price. It's always something.  
Steve


I certainly undurstand comercial considerations and what is necessary for the major producers like Accrucraft, Aster, and Roundhouse to prepare and engine for sale. However, I believe, the thread is about What would you like to see made in Live Steam without reguard for who makes it or necessarly commercial viability.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

What the heck, why not...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

AH! Ye old Russian Rail Spreader


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

OK 

Let's knock off one set of axles and just go with the UP 9000 class 4-12-2 three cylnder with Gresley conjugated valve gear on the pilot deck where every one can see it working. I am not sure what radius it would require. My O scale MTH with "scale" flanges uses 75 inch [ 6 ft 3 in] MINIMUM radius. Has a nice vandy tender too. 

Regards


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## Joel779 (Jan 2, 2008)

Is this for real? Tell me this isn't somebodys bad joke with Photo Shop....

Looks like non-articulated 4-14-x. Guess somebody figured if 4 was good, 6 outta be better and heck just throw in another axle for grandma and the kids.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

A real engine, one of a kind, built in Russia for a particular line. It tended to spread the rails when it entered curves. It was known both as "the old rail spreader" and "the old curve straightner".

See:

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/russ/russrefr.htm


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## Joel779 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 01/28/2009 11:51 PM
A real engine, one of a kind, built in Russia for a particular line. It tended to spread the rails when it entered curves. It was known both as "the old rail spreader" and "the old curve straightner".

See:

http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/russ/russrefr.htm



Very interesting page. I think that one quote about sums it up: "The results were unhappy."

Thanks.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Ah, that expression of surprise means that you probably haven't heard of Herr Hilter's proposed 3m gauge, double-storey trans-Caucasus and central European railway...

http://www.robinbarnes.net/broad1.jpg

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## jonathanj (Jan 24, 2008)

PRR t1 4-4-4-4, preferably the later look with steps on the front end. Not exactly a successful class, but iconic with love-it/hate-it looks. Some surrepticious articulation (so that it's like a pair of back-to-back 4-4-0's) between the two sets of drivers should help with curves a little, it could always be designed so that purists with mile-wide yards could tighten a few screws and lock the coupled wheelbase solid.

BTW, in case Aster are actually listening, should point out I probably can't afford one, whether they make it or not. 


Jonathan


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe we should have two threads. The first thread should be those crazy no-hopers like the Russian 2-14-4 and then a second thread for the sensible ideas that might make commercial sense. 

Andrew


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Andrew
Sensible such as a Mountain: such as PRR M1-a (at least sensible in terms that someone else through it was reasonable to make a limited run and it SOLD OUT!)


PRR Mountain with long haul tender 

Later version of M1a

Here is a gauge one Fine Arts production model:
Fine Arts M1a


My cracked crystal ball....UP FEF will be the next one pending the completed sales of S2


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## nickco201 (Jul 1, 2008)

How about some Southeastern stuff..... such as primarily a 
Southern Ps-4 4-6-2, 
Southern Ms-4 2-8-2, 
Southern Ks 2-8-0, 
ET&WNC 4-6-0, 
N&W Class A, 
N&W M2 4-8-0. 
- Andrew


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles, It is not me that you have to convince of the merits or a particular North American locomotive. It is Hans that decides these things with Aster. All I do is stir the pot now and then and throw in my unhelpful suggestions (N&W J class, Dreyfuss NYC Hudson). 

Another thing to keep in mind when thinking about possible models (apart from commercial viability) is whether the chosen loco is preserved or not. If there is an actual example which you can measure and photograph then that does help greatly. So no Dreyfuss anyway. 

As far as your crystal ball observations are concerned, I cannot comment since I do not know.

Andrew


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By AsterUK on 01/30/2009 4:05 AM Another thing to keep in mind when thinking about possible models (apart from commercial viability) is whether the chosen loco is preserved or not. If there is an actual example which you can measure and photograph then that does help greatly. So no Dreyfuss anyway. 
Andrew



So many US and Canadian locos can only be seen as models now.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 01/29/2009 10:41 AM

Sensible such as a Mountain: such as PRR M1-a (at least sensible in terms that someone else through it was reasonable to make a limited run and it SOLD OUT!)





So it seems, but have you ever seen one running on a track anywhere....?

I have NEVER seen a Fine Arts locomotive model actually turning a wheel with a train of cars behind it, unlike all the Aster models I have EVER seen..

Plus, the M1-a was electric, not a live-steamer [stir stir stir stir].

tac, throwing cat among pigeons.
G1MRA #3641


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

tac
More than one way to skin the cat...."it is electric" well that can be changed.

Similar to Asters(steam or electric) in that there are many shelf queens among the purchases.

Maybe Dr. Rivet will comment on his M1a running experiences.

Existing/surviving steam locomotive....Steam locomotives so many to choose from, so little time and even less ...money. Such are our dreams of steam.


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

Existing/surviving steam locomotive....Steam locomotives  so many to choose from, so little time and even less ...money.   Such are our dreams of steam. 
 
 Amen to that!
 
Like most livesteamers, I have numerous books giving the history of steam locomotives from all over the world.  There are not many (any) of the engines depicted that I would not like to have (coal fired of course).  Also, like most live steamers I cannot afford, nor do I have room for one of each that are currently available let alone one of each in the books.
 

As Andrew and Hans make their decisions, I will keep dreaming that I can have one.  

So for me "What would you like to see made in Live Steam" boils down to just pick any page of one of the books and then any locomotive discussed on that page.


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## morganstapleton (Mar 14, 2008)

I would like to see a VR NA class tank engine. AKA puffing Billy. To the best of my Knowledge
the only examples were made in a limited run by Gordon Watson ( who, by the way lives right
on the Puffing Billy line). Someone , somewhere asked to see a pure example of stephenson 
valve gear. Well here it is. Further more, it might be quite affordable as it is a small engine with
little detail too model. Also, having no tender would keep down the cost. I have one Aster and
have been priced out of the market on all exampples of the last five years 




Best wishes;
Morgan


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By morganstapleton on 01/30/2009 9:07 AM
I would like to see a VR NA class tank engine. AKA puffing Billy. To the best of my Knowledge
the only examples were made in a limited run by Gordon Watson ( who, by the way lives right
on the Puffing Billy line). Someone , somewhere asked to see a pure example of stephenson 
valve gear. Well here it is. Further more, it might be quite affordable as it is a small engine with
little detail too model. Also, having no tender would keep down the cost. I have one Aster and
have been priced out of the market on all exampples of the last five years 

Best wishes;
Morgan





Sir, I think it's unlikely that Gordon will be making any more, but I applaud your choice. A more evocative-looking NG loco would be hard to imagine for a 16mm/Fn3 audience, I'd bet.

With Roundhouse's habit of building furrin' locos, THEY would be the ones to do it, and make a fine job of it too, of that there is no doubt. AccuCraft could also have a go at it - I'll mention it to Mr Pearse next time we meet up and see if it sparks any interest there. 

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## morganstapleton (Mar 14, 2008)

Tac;


It is exactly because Gordon won't be making more that I would like to see Aster do it. 
It is similar in size to one or two tank engines that they made earlier. RoundHouse would
be fine, except that it is not Aster! 



Regards;
Morgan


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By morganstapleton on 01/30/2009 11:23 AM
Tac;


It is exactly because Gordon won't be making more that I would like to see Aster do it. 
It is similar in size to one or two tank engines that they made earlier. RoundHouse would
be fine, except that it is not Aster! 



Regards;
Morgan




Sorry to reiterate a point made by the US Aster man to a poster on this thread - but Aster have given up on tiny locos to concentrate of making big oens that will give them their million $$$ back in sales.

Besides, when was the last time that Aster made a tiny narrow gauge loco? And what gauge track would it run on? To be correct re. scale and gauge in 1/32nd , it would have to run on the so-far unheard-of gauge of 23.8mm. The previous Aster tank locos were both standard gauge, I recall.

You and I will be very old men, or dust in the wind, before we see Aster make a little loco again.

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac, Aster has in the past done a few NG engines, C&S Mogul, Old Faithful, and Reno, to name a few I remember, they also do 1:30 for some, this is to keep the scale correct for gauge one track. Not just 1:32, Aster's business approach is to offer both ready to run and kits. This is a large added expense. They have been in this business for over 30 years. I think they have found there is little point in making 400 smaller less detailed engine for maybe $5000.00 that will take about 10 years to sell out ( think Mikado here)( and it would cost more then that if made today!) VS making 250 units that will sell for just under $10,000.00 for a RTR, If were lucky, that may sell out in 2 to 3 years ( think Berkshire and S-2 size and type of engine here) They may make the same amount of profit, but it takes 3 times a long to get it. That also means your money it tied up longer, so there is a longer lag time between engines. They also make extra parts for each engine, which adds to the final price, some of which hang around and collect dust for 30 years, and some they run out of. I think they have even re-produced a few parts, like fire grates for their coal fired engines. But they do not keep their old tooling so if they would do a 2nd run of something, they are starting from scratch again. Yes I know they did 2 runs of the BIG BOY, and are doing a few more Garrets but those are rare exceptions. This is as I understand it. 

Roundhouse choses to make the same engine available for many years, make a few small changes over the years and not overly concerned with "scale accuracy", but rather making very sturdy engines, all NG I believe. 
This goes a long way to keep cost down but is not much interest to the " Fine Scale Collector" But it works for Roundhouse, Has for a long time. 

I'll just wait and see...


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Mr Runge - thank you for re-explaining it, but living in the heartland of live-steam gauge 1 I am well aware what models Aster has made over the last thirty-something years, and how the financial costings function in order to get an Aster model made, from having lived in Tokyo and having the pleasure of talking to Aster employees at first hand. 

Additionally, I have been running two Roundhouse locomotives of my own since the early 1990's, so I am also well-acquainted with Roundhouse history and build philosophy as well. 

The fact of the matter is that the Australian Na locomotive runs on 2ft 6in gauge track and to my recollection, Aster has NEVER made a locomotive of any kind to fit this tiny gauge in either 1/32nd or 1/30th scales. 

Assuming 45mm track to scaled to 2ft 6in would need a model aN scaled at 1/18th scale to look right. 

Roundhouse make models in about 1/19th, or slightly larger, to run on 45mm and 32mm track - can you see Aster making a model to this scale?

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/
G1MRA #3641


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac, No I could not see Aster doing that, I think your options would be scratch building your self or having someone do it for you... making it a "one of a kind" thing. I guess I did not understand your original post.. I took it to mean Aster only ever made 1:32 for gauge one track, hence my reply. Hopefully my reply was helpful to some. 
Jeff


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

who did that?????


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Not to beat a dead horse, I want small engines. The S-12 is excellent. Yes, while mine wasn't perfect out of the box, she proved herself at DH. I don't hold Accucraft at fault, it was a shipping issue. Cliff went above and beyond to get me fixed. Special note goes to Norm Saley and Tom Meyers for their assistance in the final tuning. 

At $2k, the S-12 is a bargin, and as I understand, she sold out quick, or is damn close to being gone. The best run at DH was with 15 cars and a brass caboose on the green track. Coming around the back corner she crawled and barked up the hill. A very impressive site. 

I know Accucraft and Aster both did a Daylight. I'd love to have two S-12s, one Accucraft and one Aster. Or better yet, the first company to offer a Hiawatha, I'll pre-order, even if I have to sell the wheels off my chair.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Maybe I shouldnt stick my oar in..but..we did build the Nas and after a long hiatus built one final one for client in Melbourne in 2007..it was interesting to look and realise how much we had learnt in 15 years since the originals..this one was not aproduction model except in the frames /chassis area as we had no etches left the body work etc was hand made completely..Id like to do more but ageing legs and alist of custom orders 3 or 4years long will see me finished! 

As too what prototype for USA easy Large: UP FEF 4-8-4 or L&N M1 4-8-4 mid size CNW 4-4-2 or SP A4 4-4-2 small NYC 999. 

Gordon


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Mr Runge- no problems this end, and yes, your response was useful to many others reading this thread, I'm sure. Aster also made most, if not all, of their Japanese outline locomotives in 1/30th scale because they are, effectively, narrow gauge prototypes running on the principal Japanese Cape Gauge [3ft 6in], and look VERY small compared with US/Can stuff. In fact, the C61 'Swallow' looks like a 5/8th scale model of the full-size US Hudson, even down to the Scullin-type wheels. 

tac
www.ovgrs.org
G1MRA #3641


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