# Ok gentlemen - ready to go digital



## Merlin83 (Sep 23, 2011)

Well like the title of the post says, I'm ready to go digital. And I really need help. I have four engines, (2) 2156S, (1) Santa Fe F7A and F7B, and a Swiss Ge III 4/4.

I want to try just one engine and see how it goes, perhaps buy some gently used items from eBay and then proceed from there. I am really worried about opening the engines and installing the decoders. I am totally mechanically and electrically comfortable (I'm director of an engineering department for a small company) so I know my way around 'stuff'. I have researched many install diagrams of LGB work manuals, but am uncertain if I really can do it without breaking something. 

I would like to stay with LGB for now, and if I don't totally screw things up - then perhaps investigate other vendors for decoders,etc. So, what should I do gentlemen ?









Best Regards,
Merlin


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I don't think you will get the most bang for your buck if you "stay" LGB... 

Do you mean decoders in the locos, or the DCC control system or both? 

If you MUST, then put Massoth or ESU decoders in your LGB locos that don't have them... for the control system, I cannot recommend the LGB system... if you HAVE to have something LGB, at least use the Massoth / LGB hybrid. 

Cougar or Mohammed should pop in here and give better details, they are more expert in this hardware. 

Greg


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm also not sure why it would be an advantage to stay with LGB. The basics of hooking up a decoder are the same, unless you are dealing with a plug and play socket. I have nothing against LGB, but I think there are better systems out there. One of the great things about DC is the compatability across different brands. I have 5 or 6 brands of decoders running all on the same NCE DCC system


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Merlin83 on 25 Jan 2013 09:24 AM 
Well like the title of the post says, I'm ready to go digital. And I really need help. I have four engines, (2) 2156S, (1) Santa Fe F7A and F7B, and a Swiss Ge III 4/4.

I want to try just one engine and see how it goes, perhaps buy some gently used items from eBay and then proceed from there. I am really worried about opening the engines and installing the decoders. I am totally mechanically and electrically comfortable (I'm director of an engineering department for a small company) so I know my way around 'stuff'. I have researched many install diagrams of LGB work manuals, but am uncertain if I really can do it without breaking something. 

I would like to stay with LGB for now, and if I don't totally screw things up - then perhaps investigate other vendors for decoders,etc. So, what should I do gentlemen ?









Best Regards,
Merlin 
Merlin,

I agree with Greg that you won't get much "bang" staying with LGB (JMHO). AND I own quite a bit LGB. I also have an LGB ABBA Santa Fe units and I wanted to change it over to RC. But after talking it over to many off this forum, I was told "don't waste your money". I then discussed adding a battery, Airwire decoder and using Phoenix sound and was told to just gut the engines of the old wiring and the LGB sound. Everything else I own is powered by battery, Airwire and Phoenix sound.


----------



## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

g'day, I am sitting at mc d's havin brekkie whilst writing this ( do new yourkers really put sauce remulade on a breakfast bagel? ) I dont run any ddc yet myself, but in regards of your fears of breaking something, when i started out i was only just able to hold the soldering iron the right way round ( the blisters on my hands sort of pointed out the way to do it right.. Hold the cold end in your hand... ) 
Overall why dont you just get a cheap second hand loco to play with i.e. Put the decoder in, alternatively piko makes some very reasonable priced starter set locos like the mogul around the $150 mark.... 
You can pick up their dcc decoder cheaply, the locos come with good information and manuals. Just chuck the decoder in and take it along to somebody who has a dcc layout and give it a go? 
If you really want to play with this look at the merg website in the uk, they do a DIY dcc kit, once i got enough track i am getting one to put together.... 
Kind regards michael


----------



## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Hello Merlin: 

I do not think you will break anything if you were to take you time and not rush through an installation. 

LGB offers a few motion decoders but no sound decoders. The LGB sound units are OK but they are no worth what you pay for them. 

You will get a lot more for your money with Massoth decoders than you would with LGB decoders, and the Massoth Decoders are as easy to install as equivalent LGB decoders. 


Mohammed 

http://www.massothusa.com


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

There are many manufacturers of decoders and you need to start with how much you want to modify an engine. 
Some decoders are plug and play in some LGB engines, but you get standard lighting. 

I work with Train-Li and install Zimo decoders. We rewire all engine functions to control cab lights, ditch lights, pantographs, etc. A lot of work but there are customers that want this. 

Always check the specs on decoders for speed steps available (Old LGB was 14 only, (55020) newer are 14/28 (55021) most modern decoders do 128 but can be programmed for 14. 
Check that the DCC system can do 128 speed steps and that you can address CV's over address 128. (Zimo is up to the 700's on their latest decoders). 

And verify the max voltage as small engines need small decoders (read HO) and they have lower track voltage (Zimo has 50 volt ratings on the latest HO decoders, 24 volts on the older ones). 


One thing you must do is make sure the track power never goes to any other decoder function, instant smoke!! 

A test station with a 30 ohm resistor in series with the track will protect the decoder for the most part when you first test a loco. I always wire the track and motor first and test this operation to verify engine direction in dcc and analog. Then I do the rest of the wiring. 

PS, the 2156 may have a 3 wire motor block and the motor needs to be isolated from track power and converted to 4 wire.


----------



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Merlin83, 

I'm at a similar stage regarding looking at digital. 

In addition to what's been said, you'll need to select a control station / power supply capable of enough current to run your trains, plus features like sound and lights, and switches if you intend to power them. At least one amp for each drive motor. 

I want to run four small (single motor) and two large (dual motor), and I am looking at 12 to 16 amp systems. With your large diesels, if you want to run them at once, it seems you'll be best served to select a system in the same range.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are trying to keep a large layout with many loco running from a SINGLE booster, I might agree, but newer thinking breaks the layout up into more separate "power districts" of 8-10 amps. Better design for debugging, short detection and more importantly protection of rolling stock when there is a derailment. 

Having a train that by itself draws in excess of 8 amps is pretty darn unusual, and I know from experience. 

Also, trying to calculate the draw of a train with multiple locos is not as simple as multiplying the max load of one loco by the number of locos in the train (or by motor) 

I think we should establish just what the OP wants to be able to do before telling to decide between a chevy pickup and a mercedes sports car. 

Greg


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

It is not necessary to figure an amp for each switch motor. I would think that most any one would operate one switch at a time. Same with locomotives, how many will run at the same time. Many LGB's draw less than an amp each. Lighted passenger cars can add up. Always consider LED's to conserve power load.


----------



## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

First check if your F7's or GE III 4/4 have onboard decoders (analog& digital sticker). If so you can run DCC digital with any systeavailable. If they have the DCC interface you have multiple decoder options. 

The 2156S will need to hard wired as Dan indicated. I have the non sound version and went with ESU Loksound XL for power and sound and very happy. This is more complicated project and would not start with this engine. 

My DCC set preference is the NCE 10 amp Radio version and they run the LGB onboard decoders well. 

Good Luck and keep us posted. 

Alan


----------



## Merlin83 (Sep 23, 2011)

Greetings,

Ok - so I have done some more reading. Is it then best to go with the Massoth decoders ? and as far as a system to control things - do most people run the NCE system ? Sorry I am confused. Any chance someone could list out exactly what I should get ? Sorry to be a dumbie, but I am happy to follow a list of items that are proven and recommended. I just need to know what they would be.

For example, I want to start with one of the LGB 2156S I have: I would love to add a smoother 'step' to how the motor responds. I have heard 14 and 28 steps, are these PWM steps ? Like a switching power supply ? that ease power in small increments to the motor ? Looking at the NCE system (and others) I like being able to trigger the horn whistle and lights whenever I like, that sounds really neat ! I have looked through many YouTube posts with various sounds decoders onbe was a Tsunami decoders: here it is


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Everyone has opinions, and these vary. People are very passionate about the choices. 

Personally, I pick the decoder I want based on the loco and what I want from it. I like certain features that only the higher end decoders have, and I also prefer manuals that are written in clear English and all the details I could want, not glossing over the functions. 

Do most people run the NCE system? I don't know, I'm not sure of the actual sales statistics. For my, it was a superior control system with everything I needed and I prefer the throttle over all others for a number of reasons. 

In my opinion, 14 steps sucks, and so does 28, I run everything in 128 mode. These "steps" are indeed PWM steps, so the control of the loco is very "coarse" with 14, and for me 28. 

All the DCC systems will allow you to control the horn/whistle and bell remotely, very standard functions, there are many more sophisticated functions, and also the capabilities of the decoders vary. 

If you buy an "upper end" control system, you'll most likely be able to do anything you can conceive of, at this point it's more how you like the throttle, etc. I run my trains outdoors, so a fancy color display showing a little picture of a train is a waste and the color displays are hard to read in full sunlight. Once I started considering things, the answers came pretty easy.


----------



## Newsted (May 29, 2012)

I have several Bachmann locos that that were set up for PNP and I installed the QSI decoders. It was simple to install the decoders, and it has been fun to enjoy all the features that DCC offers. I finished the programing of a new Bachmann Spectrum Baldwin 2-6-0 that I installed a QSI Titan Magnum in. This was my first hard-wire install on a locomotive that was "DCC Ready". I was quite frightened as I have not worked with solid state electronics since I was in school. Due to space limitations in both the tender and the boiler; I had to gut the factory boards and start from scratch. 
I allowed myself all the time I needed to become familiar with soldering again. I asked questions along the way. I broke some solder connections and repaired them. I used track power for some lighting functions that were not important to me. Finally! I did not know the best was yet to come! I used the QSI programmer to create the sound and motion that made the loco come alive. It required multiple attempts to get it set up the way I wanted it, but the results were magnificent! It was well worth the time and effort! I am using Bachmann Dynamis DCC for indoor/bench work. I am going to purchase the NCE system shortly for outside this spring. The only hesitation I have is that I am trying to understand the amp/power district issues. I will be running double headers (usa Macs to Berlyn K37s). It's time for more education! DCC has been an investment that has brought my favorite hobby to life!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Newsted, start a new topic with your questions about amp/power districts.... with the NCE system it will be a piece of cake... and I'd be happy to help, but I don't want to derail this thread topic. 

Greg


----------

