# Anyone using a Revolution with a LGB DCC Interface?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

This is sort of a "what if" question. Even if I do it, it will probably be some time in the future before I get around to it.
 
I have a LGB SP Mogul with the DCC interface that I bought on eBay without a tender. I also have a spare (regular) LGB Mogul Tender without sound and neither a MTS/DCC nor a standard LGB decoder interface.
 
Realizing that the Aristo Revolution receiver will not fit in the Mogul boiler the Revolution receiver would be put into the tender along with a sound system of some type (to be determined later). I would run a DCC connector to the DCC interface and the cables from there to the tender. Part of the question is how many and which wires would need to be run from the tender to the loco's DCC interface.
 
At this point I am less concerned about the practicality of it as I am in the electrical compatibility issues. I would guess that the LGB SP Mogul's DCC interface should be pretty much compatible with any DCC product including the Aristo-Craft Revolution but my guess is not good enough.
 
Has anyone actually done it and installed a Revolution receiver in any LGB loco with the DCC interface? 
 
If so what sort of results have you had?
 
Are you happy or unhappy with the results (not with the Revolution features but the success of the installation)?
 
Thanks,
 
Jerry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Jerry, I'm a bit confused here. The Revoluton is not DCC, so it's not going to drive any electronics that are expecting a DCC signal. With the Revolution and sound board in the tender, there's no need for any extra electronics in the locomotive, so I'd just gut it and rewire it to suit the new system. 

Later, 

K


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 25 May 2010 01:05 PM 
Jerry, I'm a bit confused here. The Revoluton is not DCC, so it's not going to drive any electronics that are expecting a DCC signal. With the Revolution and sound board in the tender, there's no need for any extra electronics in the locomotive, so I'd just gut it and rewire it to suit the new system. 

Later, 

K 
Hi Kevin,

While the Revolution is not DCC it is designed to work with the Aristo-Craft DCC interface. This is what leads me to think that it should operate the same functions (motor and perhaps lights, smoke etc.) as in any other loco with a DCC interface.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx










Since LGB describes their Mogul interface as DCC and Aristo describes their interface as DCC that implies interchangeability and control of the same things. 

If a decoder would work in a LGB Mogul with a DCC interface and in an Aristo SD-45 with a DCC interface then why would a Revolution designed to be used instead of a decoder in a SD-45's DCC interface not also work in the LGB Mogul's DCC interface?

I don't know the answer - which is why I am asking the question. Hopefully someone else has worked this out and I can follow in their footsteps.

Jerry


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, 

The interface socket is for a LGB decoder or Massoth decoder.. 
Hope this hellps.. 

BulletBob


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Road Foreman on 25 May 2010 01:55 PM 
Jerry, 

The interface socket is for a LGB decoder or Massoth decoder.. 
Hope this hellps.. 

BulletBob 

Hi Bob,

That is true and I know that in the past LGB was well known for doing funny things with their decoders and decoder interfaces. There has been very little published (as far as I know) about how standard or non-standard their DCC interface (or Aristo's for that matter) might be. I believe that at the end LGB was saying that this DCC interface was supposed to be compatible with non-LGB decoders but I have not seen any LGB documentation about it.

I am getting into an area I am totally unqualified in so answers that may be obvious to others may not be obvious to me.

If someone jumps up and says they have done it and it was just a plug and play installation that will help a lot and if someone says I am thinking about something that is impossible (and tells me why it is impossible) that is good too.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry

Is there a missing connection for "Track -" in your drawing?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes Jerry, I believe it can be done. As I believe you have already surmised, the track and motor connections look straightforward. 

What I believe is the difficulty is "getting to" the lights, and making sure the lights have the proper "common", especially if they are LEDs or have a diode in their circuit to cause directional behavior. 

From Jim Carter's experience in another thread, you might be able to determine how to hook up the lights, but it appears they may have a common between them, and it's probably the "negative" lead. 

In all modern decoders, the Revo included, the "common" is positive, not negative. Some investigation would be necessary to determine this and if you are really "getting to" the lights directly from the socket, and not through some other electronics or regulators. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By N1CW on 25 May 2010 08:49 PM 

Jerry

Is there a missing connection for "Track -" in your drawing?



Hi Ray,

I just borrowed someone else's illustration to show the DCC interface. I did not look at it closely.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 May 2010 08:57 PM 
Yes Jerry, I believe it can be done. As I believe you have already surmised, the track and motor connections look straightforward. 

What I believe is the difficulty is "getting to" the lights, and making sure the lights have the proper "common", especially if they are LEDs or have a diode in their circuit to cause directional behavior. 

From Jim Carter's experience in another thread, you might be able to determine how to hook up the lights, but it appears they may have a common between them, and it's probably the "negative" lead. 

In all modern decoders, the Revo included, the "common" is positive, not negative. Some investigation would be necessary to determine this and if you are really "getting to" the lights directly from the socket, and not through some other electronics or regulators. 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

This is the sort of information that will probably convince me not to do it. I have become pretty much a "Plug N Play" guy. If the installation of something (Revolution or decoder etc.) is more complicated or will give me nothing more than motor control without me getting a soldering iron out, I usually leave things alone and run things the way they were designed to run. I will probably put a Massoth or LGB decoder in it and go with that - unless someone announces that they put a Revolution in one and everything including lights and smoke works.

I suspected that since I had not seen where anyone had installed a Revolution into a LGB loco (without modifying the LGB loco) that it would probably be more involved than I would want to bother with. Part of this is because I try to never modify the LGB electronics or remove any LGB circuit boards. I know that others do this all the time but I prefer to keep my LGB locos in factory original condition as much as possible.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Fish-T (Jun 6, 2010)

Jerry

What kind of controller are you using now with your LGB locos? I'm just setting up a new indoor layout and was thinking of the Aristo Revo with a Bridgewerks pure 15A DC for power.

My locos are all Euro models, but only one has smoke and sound. Not sure I want to be moving internals around either!

PT


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Fish-T on 12 Jun 2010 07:42 PM 
Jerry

What kind of controller are you using now with your LGB locos? I'm just setting up a new indoor layout and was thinking of the Aristo Revo with a Bridgewerks pure 15A DC for power.

My locos are all Euro models, but only one has smoke and sound. Not sure I want to be moving internals around either!

PT 


Hi PT,

My MTS equipment is pretty much basic LGB with LGB Loco Remotes and Universal Remotes controlling LGB MTS Central Stations.

When I started this topic I was thinking about trying to put Revolutions into locos I already had (mostly LGB) that were either inexpensive 2-4-0's or a couple of SP DCC Interfaced Moguls. 

I have since changed directions and instead bought several Aristo-Craft E-8's, SD-45's and a GP-40 all of which came with the Plug and Play interface. As for non-Aristo locos without without the PNP interface (and LGB Moguls with it) I have decided that since I would end up with limited functions (without doing more work than I am prepared to do) I would only add Revolutions to a few USAT diesels (for their hook and loop couplers and ability to handle sidings with small diameter curves for switching) that will have Sierra sound systems. This is working out very well with regard to what I have been trying to accomplish.

I like to have a certain uniformity with my layouts. The Caboose Layout is now 100% Revolution for my trains but I have it wired so visitors can run their trains with the Revolution, Analog Track Power, MTS/DCC, DCS or Battery Power. Yesterday one friend and I were running trains with the Revolution on the inside loop and sidings while another friend was running his Accucraft Galloping Goose on track power on the outside loop.

The main outside layout is 100% Revolution controlled when fed by trains in the lower crawl space with R3 turnouts and sidings. If instead I feed it from trains in the garage with its R1 turnouts, curves and sidings I switch to analog track power and occasionally MTS but here again I have the ability to run the main outside layout (by plugging in different power supplies and controllers) to run this layout on Revolution, Analog Track Power, MTS/DCC, DCS or Battery Power.

At first my plans were to allow live steam on both layouts but since I have some steep (10% grade) ramps to get my trains to and from the outside layout I have decided against running live steam (except mine - if I ever decide I want to run it here) because I want to avoid getting any oil on the tracks which could cause problems as that oil was tracked onto the ramps and inside yards.

I like the Revolution but I really hate to give advice to anyone because every situation is different. In most cases people seem to have a pretty good idea of what it is that they want to do so I encourage them to go ahead and do whatever it is that they are thinking about doing. My attitude is that it is a lot better to do what you want to do even if it turns out not to work out perfect than to follow someone else's advice and always wonder if you could have had what you really wanted to have.

If you are unsure of what you want, rather than to follow someone else's advice (including mine) keep your money in your pocket until you have actually seen and hopefully tried some of the options before you spend any money. For most people I think they reach a point where they say to themselves "I want that." That is when you should start spending your money.

To answer your specific question - I have a Revolution and I have Bridgewerks 15 amp power supplies (I also use Aristo Everests and 15 amp controllers). I think the Bridgewerks is an excellent power supply but there are two things you should be aware of (my Bridgewerks are several years old and I can only reference them):

1. My MAG-15 will put out around 29 volts which according to Aristo will probably blow the Revolution if used without a throttle.
2. My SR-15 has a throttle but if put to full voltage it too will put out more voltage than the Revolution is rated for and could possibly blow a Revolution.

If you use a Bridgewerks and it does not have a voltage meter (mine do not) I would buy an inexpensive volt meter and keep it permanently where you can see it near the Bridgewerks. Your Bridgewerks probably has an adjustable lock to keep the max voltage down. You may want to glue or otherwise seal it so it cannot be accidentally disabled.

One thing to keep in mind is that since the Revolution is designed to allow multiple locos to be under full track power at all times an accidental over voltage by not keeping the throttle lower than 24 volts could blow ALL your Revolutions.

Additionally (and I AM NOT slamming Bridgewerks - I like Bridgewerks) most Bridgewerks are not regulated power supplies (I am not qualified to discuss and I will not get into an argument about whether regulated is better or not). This means that to some extent your house voltage has a direct bearing on the output of (at least my) Bridgewerks power supplies. If you set your Bridgewerks to the max rating of the Revolution and the power company ups your line voltage you may find yourself over the Revolution max.

Personally I do not think this is a big deal. I have a lot of old coaches with 18 volt lights in them so I always keep my throttles down to 18 - 20 volts to protect those lights and I have never noticed any difference. 18 - 20 volts is a lot faster than I run my trains anyway.

On the other hand you mentioned Euro models (LGB I presume). This may change things a bit in that some of my LGB locos need quite a bit higher voltage than other brands of locos. You don't want to find yourself needing 24 volts and not having it available. Again I would go to that inexpensive voltmeter and see just what the highest voltage you might possibly want to run your locos at (with some weight behind them - not just a loco). If you find yourself edging toward 24 volts you might be asking for trouble with a need for 24 volts and running an unregulated power supply.

This is not a disaster in making. Most of us end up needing more power supplies than we start with. You may start with the Bridgewerks and never need anything else. If you eventually need something else that will probably mean that you have fallen in love with this hobby and would have bought another power supply anyway.

Have fun,

Jerry


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## Fish-T (Jun 6, 2010)

Hi Jerry 

Thanks very much for the advice ! Lots of valuable info to digest. Due to space constraints, I have two separate loops, one elevated and completely isolated from the 0 grade loop, which has five run through sidings, three dead end sidings, and the LGB electric turntable. I have twelve LGB electric switches in the yard and one going to the turntable. I'm just looking for the best way to control all of this remotely, and be able to run several locomotives at the same time in the switching yard as well as on the loop(s). I haven't looked or investigated the LGB controllers. My LGB power pack made a big "pop" last year and fried itself, but up to now worked fine when running a single train on an extended loop during holiday time. Now with this permanent lay-out, I'm looking to do more with moving freight cars, etc. I have four LGB locos (based on the European prototypes) and one D&RGW Mogul (which will probably be relegated somewhere else) aka display case .... 

Regards 
Peter


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Peter,

It sounds like you have a very interesting layout. If possible how about posting some photos of it?

You are in an area where I am uncomfortable which is when it comes to putting a Revolution into a LGB loco. You did not mention if any of your locos have decoders. If they do that might influence you to go with MTS/DCC but either way you have the option of going with the Revolution.

In the past when I have asked questions about MTS/DCC I was often advised to remove the LGB circuit boards and rewire for conventional decoders. If you follow that sort of advice (I do not but that is because I like to keep my trains as factory original as possible) you would have the same freedom to rewire for the Revolution.

Your light bulbs and smoke units are issues that may need to be dealt with as they may or may not be voltage compatible with the Revolution (I don't know). 

When in situations like yours I tend to just put the Revolution (or a decoder if wiring for DCC) between the track pickup and the motherboard and I let the motor output of the Revolution (or decoder) feed everything just as if it was still running on track power.

A big question is just what you hope to end up with. If you want the most features and capabilities MTS/DCC may be your best choice. If you want ease of installation and fewer choices to be bothered with, the Revolution may be a better answer. I am sure that everyone will have a different opinion of what is best here but often it is not too hard to figure out what you really are looking for. It sounds like you have already looked into the situation to some degree.

Unless you are comfortable with taking locos apart and working on them, you perhaps may want to find someone locally to help you with your project. This is a problem with the Internet as I don't know you or what your talents and experiences are so I don't want to be talking down to you but I also don't want to be talking over your head.

It sounds like you have a fairly good idea of where you want to go.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Fish-T on 13 Jun 2010 11:30 AM 
and one D&RGW Mogul (which will probably be relegated somewhere else) aka display case .... 

Regards 
Peter 

Hi Peter,

PLEASE do not do that. The LGB Mogul is my all time favorite loco. In my opinion it happens to be the very best large scale loco ever made (except perhaps for the Stainz - but that is a Euro model and I don't model Euro - OK I know that you do







).

When it comes to ability to run anywhere (sharp curves, irregular track, humps and dips, flat out durability, ease of repair (and lack of need for such) and ability to run and be stored in unheated, uncooled environments (in my opinion) the LGB Mogul is unequaled. 

It is too good a loco to be relegated to a display case (that's what I did with my LGB/Aster Mikado for all the reasons that don't apply to a LGB Mogul).

Of course it is your loco so do whatever you want to do with it.









Jerry


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## Fish-T (Jun 6, 2010)

Ha ! Well, I wlll have to run it sometime !! I have a full set of rolling stock including the Drover's caboose, pax cars, etc .... but it would probably look out of place in this new layout. 

I like doing things with my hands, but I don't want to take the guts out of these LGB locos just to be able to run the Revo. I would prefer to leave them as close to factory specs as well. What would you recommend for DCC, the LGB equipment? I have no experience with any of this new control gear. We have a very small group (chapter) of Florida Garden Railroad Society here on the Treasure coast which I recently joined. I've had a few tips from one member, including this forum. 

Again, I'll have two separate loops, the 0 level with five run through sidings, all electrically switched. Would just like to run one loco on the elevated (isolated) circuit and three of four locos in the yard switching or running through on the big loop through the station siding, etc. 

I have my 0 level benchwork completed, just started on the two higher elevations, track plan is finalized, many structures completed, and others under construction, but still a very, very long way to go ! 

Again, thanks so much for your help and advice. 

PT


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Fish-T on 13 Jun 2010 04:11 PM 
What would you recommend for DCC, the LGB equipment? I have no experience with any of this new control gear. We have a very small group (chapter) of Florida Garden Railroad Society here on the Treasure coast which I recently joined. I've had a few tips from one member, including this forum.PT 

Hi Peter,

Massoth is the most compatible with LGB locos because they made most of the LGB MTS electronics. http://www.massoth.com/index.usa.html LGB did not always follow normal DCC standards. Beyond that it would be unfair for me to make any recommendations because my MTS/DCC knowledge is of a very basic level.

Both here on MLS and in Florida you have access to a lot of folks with far more MTS/DCC knowledge than me. 

One suggestion I would offer is that the products are no better than your understanding how to get the best from them. I have often found MTS/DCC instructions confusing. For that reason someone locally who has installed and programmed decoders can be a very important source of information on what may be best for you because they will be there to help you if you run into difficulties.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Just an update...

Has anyone in the 3 years since I started this topic managed to install a Revolution into an *LGB Mogul or Forney or 2-4-0* (any LGB Mogul, Forney or 2-4-0) without gutting the loco?

If so, which Mogul, Forney or 2-4-0 and how did you do it?

I still have not tried it.

I don't think LGB or Marklin ever got around to putting the DCC Interface exclusively in the tender (AKA Aristo-Craft) but if they did I would be tempted to try it. I think all of my LGB Moguls, Forneys and 2-4-0's (if they have a DCC Interface) have it under the boiler where there would be no room for a Revolution. I would prefer to work with the LGB DCC Interface rather than to rewire the loco. 


A side issue is how a Revolution would affect LGB factory sound and or lights?


If I cannot use an LGB Mogul with a DCC Interface, I might consider rewiring a 2019s C&S Mogul which brings up the question of how the LGB analog sound of a 2019s would work with a Revolution's PWC. 

I already have the Moguls, Forneys, 2-4-0's and Revolutions so this is not a question of whether it is a good idea or not - just if anyone has accomplished it and if so how they did it and how it worked out for them. No opinions please. I already have my own opinions - what I really need are facts based on personal experience. 

I should be able to check out the PWC issues with an Aristo Super/Base Receiver under track power. I just have not gotten around to trying it yet.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, since the older LGB moguls analog sound units have a 9 volt battery and the chuff is from the engine rear axle, pulsed power should not bother the sound. 
And the newer sound units have super caps for stabilizing the sound and should not be a problem either. You might lose the 2 vs 3 toots for direction on start up. 
But it would be nice if someone can confirm my assumptions.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Jerry, years ago I wimped out with my LGB Mogul. It is an older model without any DCC connections. I first did the change with the old 27 MHz Train Engineer. With that arrangement I put the TE receiver in a trailing car and ran it on linear power for the LGB old sound board. Eventually the sound died. Now I use the Revolution with a Phoenix sound. It is not wired "into" the engine, but rather in a trailing car, so that the engine thinks it is track power, but actually the power is coming in via a connector on the tender rather than through the track pickups. It is a fine running and sounding engine, though.

Ed


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Ed and Dan,

How about the loco's lights? As you probably know I've had problems with USA NW-2 lights where the USA NW-2 boards did not like PWC. 

I am guessing that since (I think) PWC is not totally unlike DCC (pulsed power) that the LGB circuits should tolerate PWC. 

I actually have two options I am considering:

1. can a Revolution be used (with a non-PNP adapter) via a Massoth 8150501 DCC adapter to connect with an LGB loco with a DCC interface?

This image suggests it would be possible but I don't know if a full installation would be compatible or just track and motor connections. 










2. a simple input to a Revolution from the LGB 2019s and tender track pickups with the output of the Revolution (motor out) feeding everything in the loco (lights, motor and sound).

Ed, I think you are using battery power. In my case it would continue to be track power. 

Thanks,

Jerry


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

You're right, Jerry I am using battery power. I keep forgetting that little detail since I have been "battery" for so long. FYI though, the headlight on my installation works exactly like it did on DC track power. Light comes on and is ALMOST full bright by the time the engine starts moving.

Ed


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Ed,

I guess that for me the big question has always been not wanting to rewire a steam loco for the Revolution. In looking at the LGB DCC image it suggests that it might be possible to leave the jumpers in place except for the motor and track and to run 4 wires to the tender (2 for the track & 2 for the motor). I think this would disconnect the Mogul from the track and motor contacts allowing the Revolution to control the motor. If I am not mistaken the LGB locos with a DCC Interface do not have a DCC Interface in the tender as well but I might be wrong and I don't want to risk burning up LGB electronics.

For now I am just playing with the idea. I was going to put a Revolution into an AccuCraft 0-6-0 but I ran out of space in the tender (for Sierra board, Aristo PWC adapter board and Revolution) so I left it on track power. 

As you know, I have Aristo diesels with Revolutions and Aristo Connies and a Mikado with Revolutions but no steamers that can pull 6 coaches around R1 or R2 curves. LGB Forneys would not have the space for a Revolution and LGB 2-4-0's would not have the pulling power I need.

I was really hoping to find someone who had installed a Revolution into a LGB Mogul via the DCC Interface and was using track power.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 04 Sep 2013 09:44 AM 

I was really hoping to find someone who had installed a Revolution into a LGB Mogul via the DCC Interface and was using track power.

Thanks,

Jerry 
Jerry... I've installed a REVOLUTION receiver in a LGB 26192 C&S #10 Mogul wiring it directly from the motor output on the receiver to the motor inputs to the main board and have been able to trigger bell and whistle by tapping into the reed switches that operate from track magnets.. The REVOLUTIONS will work with the Moguls that have digital sound.. But as you've found, PWC does not work with the analog sound tenders... 

If you want to use DCC track pickup, you will need a bridge rectifier on the input side of the REVOLUTION receiver.... 

To my knowledge, it's not a plug n' play situation...


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Stan,


I figured that if anyone had, you would be the one who would have installed a Revolution into a LGB Mogul. Since I was still trying to figure out what I really want to do I did not want to contact you until I had a better idea of what direction I was heading.

As I was typing this, I finally decided I was making a simple problem complicated and I just got off the phone with Aristo where I ordered a couple of the UP 0-4-0's. 











ART21306C 0-4-0 SWITCHER UP W/CABOOSE -Brand New Smoke Unit -All New Gear Box -Power Pick-Ups on the Tender -Electronics are all now in the Tender -Front/Rear operating AAR Knuckle Coupler -Firebox red glow and interior cab detail -Painted brass grab railings 4Ft Minimum Diameter Length 12" Tender Length 9.5" Scale 1/29


With all of the improvements to the new 0-4-0 (and a great price) it was too hard to resist. 

When Aristo gets more Revolutions with steam sound back into stock everything should work out fine.

The double headed 0-4-0's should give me the traction I need.

They will go with an older Aristo UP 0-4-0 that I had installed an LGB Mogul drive unit into (making it into an Aristo Mogul). 













He will now have a couple little brothers. 
Thanks,

Jerry 

NOTE: This topic may not currently belong under DCC in Large Scale but back when I started it on 25 May 2010 there was nowhere else to post topics regarding the Aristo-Craft Revolution which is why it is here. If a Moderator wishes to move this topic to a different forum I have no objection to it being moved. It is 3 years later and I still have not figured out what to do with the LGB SP Mogul with the DCC interface.


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