# Making the grade: how steep can you go?



## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

This is prolly in FAQs, but I'm lazy. So my newbie question is: how steep a grade can I get away with in say, 30 feet? Maybe by circling around for a few feet before attacking the actual grade? My track plan has trains running from the flatlands, where the station and town will be, up said grade into the mountains, then back down. The actual vertical rise is about 18 inches. Locos will be Bachmann 10-wheelers and Connies, with short (four or five-car) trains. I have a track plan laid out on a huge piece of paper, but I will have to somehow copy it (probably by taking a photo of it) to post here, so youse can ker-teek it.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

That's a 5% grade...if you keep it one simple slope...and not hill and dale it. That'll kill gearboxes real good unless you're real careful...especially going downhill. 

Try to stay under 3%...but even at 3%...sudden stops will rip up a gearbox.


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks, Mike. Hey, BTW, my Atlanta friends took their 4Runner to that dealer near Mission Bay and got great treatment. Just an oil change and a general lookover. Told 'em (her, actually, as DW took the car in) that 
the car was in fine shape (amazing, considering it was driven by their UCLA student son) and fit to be driven back to 'lanta.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

my tests showed, that a (read: my) Bachmann 10 wheeler does not tow more than just its own tender on a straight 3% grade.


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 03 Dec 2010 04:02 AM 
my tests showed, that a (read: my) Bachmann 10 wheeler does not tow more than just its own tender on a straight 3% grade. 


Hmmm, that's not good. Maybe I should use the Connies.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rule of thumb is 2% or less for standard gauge, go 3-4% if you run short trains and NG (narrow gauge) stuff. 

Regards, Greg


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

You could always retrofit your 10-wheeler & Connie locos with the the heavy duty replacement drives from Barry's Big Trains (BBT). From what I have read they will take far more punishment from grades & loads than the factory drives. Not cheap, but proven to perform & last.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

The Annie that I have pulls four cars (battery boxcar and 3 AMS coaches w/ ball bearing wheel sets) up a 3% grade without a problem. Add one more car and the wheels start to slip. Take a BBT 280 equipped Annie (this is the 2-8-0 version with turned Aristo drivers and added weight) and the load increases by 3 more cars! I'm sure that, should I add more weight to the engine, I would be able to pull one or two more AMS coaches easily.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

In case you don't understand the % thing 1% is 1" of elevation in 100" of run, 2% is 2" of elevation in 100" of run, etc... so a 2% grade would mean you would have just a smidge over 7" in change over 30 feet.... or require about 75 feet of run to accomplish your 18" climb.... and another 75 feet to get back down again if you have a loop. 

3% would be a 50 foot run on each side... steeper than that, as Mikey said, is just asking for trouble.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I have 4% grades all over my indoor layout and a spiral on 5.2%. With some weight (add at your own risk) a BH will BARELY haul 3 passenger cars on the spiral, complaining the whole way. Smaller locos can handle 2 cars at best. A Bmann Shay will handle 8. 

Don't take this as a confirmation that steep grades are good, they are not. They are indeed a PITA. As recommended by others stay well under 3% if you want something else besides very short trains. I have yet to blow out a properly prepared gearbox on my grades but that is where I learned to tie down the motor of a 3rd gen Big Hauler just before it would have exploded.


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks, all. FYI, both of my 10-wheelers have Barry's drives, as does a third Big Hauler, which Barry converted into a Connie. Unfortunately, it has yet to turn a wheel, since I was trying to turn it into something unique looking (not D&RGW) and found some plans for a Lima 2-8-0 whose boiler contours are an almost exact match for the Bachmann's Tweetsie-style boiler. I even built most of the cab--in 1:20.3--but tabled the project after the going got tough, which is the story of my modeling life. 

BTW, I looked at my designated layout area today, and it seems parts of my proposed layout's upper level are higher than the 18 inches I mentioned. However, rather than trying to deal with an even higher elevation, I think I'll run the tracks through a cut, which should make for some interesting viewing.


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## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

I was at Mizell Trains in Westminster, Colorado today. They had a cog rail type LGB that looks like it was on a 33% grade!


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Steve Stockham,

Please the wheels on your 2-8-0 Bumle Bee are not "turned down Aristocraft drivers"

Those drivers are mine, brass centers and stainless steel tires, further they are larger than the Aristo C-16, which is a 1/24th model.

Those wheels aren't even in the same class with mine.

Barry - BBT


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## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

you want steep? check out "Terror Trestle - G-scale model train" video on youtube!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmP_h6qSExE


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By Chata86 on 10 Dec 2010 11:18 PM 
you want steep? check out "Terror Trestle - G-scale model train" video on youtube!  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmP_h6qSExE 

Steep??? It's flat, the ground is steep.

Oh a sound level warning would be nice....

John


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