# Treadle sewing machine power?



## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

I have an old treadle sewing machine that I plan to remove the top wooden portion, keep the bottom metal portion, and put a new wooden top on that will house some of my manual controls for some of my garden railway lines. For those who may not know, these old treadles have a platform for your feet which rocks forward and back, spinning a large wheel, which in turn spins a smaller wheel on the sewing machine above so it can operate. I thought as long as it'll be out there I may as well try to use it. I wonder about the possibility of it generating enough power to operate a G scale loco on a small loop of track? I haven't the slightest idea what pieces I'll need to make it operational but if there are any experts out there that feel like giving me a list of items to get me started, I'll give it a try. I can probably handle the fan belt portion but will need help picking out the proper generator, any additional items needed, and perhaps the wiring. Will I need to produce 120 volts AC? Or can I bypass all that and just go straight for DC? I'd like to limit the amount of power that it can produce, so the speed of the loco will depend on how fast the foot pedal is moving. LET ME KNOW. The other thought I had is a stationary bike to do the same thing. This would be another popular item if you post a sign with the fastest time and who did it. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP, FESTUS


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I once talked with a man that had a bicycle tied to a battery to run his only TV for the whole family. 

Kids gave up watching programs very quickly.


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## pethia (Jun 10, 2011)

My take is that you would be best off using a DC generator and definitely and voltage regulator. You might even consider visiting an auto salvage yard.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Cheapest way is a GM one wire alternator, but you'd need a 12v battery for it to work. 

You'd probably have to go to a tractor salvage yard to find a 12v generator. But with so many guys converting grandpa's old 6v tractor to 12v, they're getting fairly scarce


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd agree, a small automotive alternator and battery would be the simplest way to go to run a train, 
however I don't think the sewing machine treadle arrangement would give U the mechanical advantage 
U would need to power it under load, alternators and generators get difficult to turn under load... a 
bicycle pedal, chain, and sprocket(s) arrangement would be more suitable I'd think...
Paul R...


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

An alternator would not work very well as it uses power to magnetize the field. A generator has permanent magnets for this and does not need a battery to run. 

You can jump start a car from the 50's and earlier as they have generators and start with completely dead batteries, no so with the new cars with alternators!!!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 06 Feb 2012 07:04 AM 
An alternator would not work very well as it uses power to magnetize the field. A generator has permanent magnets for this and does not need a battery to run. 

I don't disagree mechanically. BUT from a cost standpoint $25-40 for a used alternator vs $100+ for a decent 12v generator makes a pretty big difference. Also in this application you aren't going to be charging from dead stranded 100 miles from nowhere, but just keeping it "topped off" at home. 


If you get carried away and accidentally deep cycle the battery, you'd simply put it on a trickle charger overnight.


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

I've imagined the track hooked up to this gizmo would be just a small circle of track, and if the treadle machine can't handle it, then I'll switch to a bike, but would still like to use the treadle for something. Could I hook all the lights to my buildings up to it? Or a sound system? I'd like kids to be able to sit and pedal away, knowing what they're accomplishing as they do so. A train, lights, or sound would be great. Try to make it a learning experience, and possibly a contest for a couple of adults. How about a circle of track AROUND the treadle machine?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you will be VERY surprised at how LITTLE power a human can generate, or conversely, how MUCH power the little train requires just to move or light the headlight.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 06 Feb 2012 04:01 PM 
I think you will be VERY surprised at how LITTLE power a human can generate...

You're right, he needs to train guinea pigs like that guy in the commercial... "Row!, Row!" lol!


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 06 Feb 2012 07:04 AM 
An alternator would not work very well as it uses power to magnetize the field. A generator has permanent magnets for this and does not need a battery to run. 

You can jump start a car from the 50's and earlier as they have generators and start with completely dead batteries, no so with the new cars with alternators!!! 
That is not correct. Automotive generators use wound fields, not permanent magnet fields. And the generator or alternator has nothing to do with the ability to jump start or run the engine - the ignition circuit on every engine except those that use magnetos uses external power provided by the battery and/or the charging circuit. The ignition circuit doesn't know or care if the power is coming from the parent vehicle or the jumper.


There are small engines with permanent magnet generators, found on equipment like garden tractors and construction tools. They use magnets on the flywheel moving past stationary coils.


Magnetos are found on small engines, old tractors, and airplanes, to name a few. They haven't been used regularly on automobiles since the days of the Model T.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 06 Feb 2012 04:01 PM 
I think you will be VERY surprised at how LITTLE power a human can generate, or conversely, how MUCH power the little train requires just to move or light the headlight. 


Time for a little reality check. A human can easily power a treadle sewing machine or a scroll saw, or even a wood lathe at levels rivaling small fractional horsepower electric motors. Those machines were very common before electricity was available. By "small", I mean 1/6hp or less. (Top athletes can produce 1/3-1/2hp over an hour period.) 1/6hp=124W What power does your little train draw? [email protected]? (not counting multi-motor locomotives, double-headers, etc.) That's 72W. The headlight is going to be way less than that, somewhere around 10W.

Or how about this: how can moving a small garden railway train along mostly level track be any harder than riding a bicycle up a slight incline?


Of course, all bets are off for the physical fitness of some people, but generally they aren't the ones asking about the feasibility of such an idea in the first place.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

your little train draws one amp... and not full speed running, so maybe 14v, that's 14 watts... this reality check is that if you are going to do this, you will choose a small, short train with an efficient motor and not run at full speed. 

Greg


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

*Time a real reality check here, who in the name of h--l is going to all the *
*trouble and expense to cobble up this "generating plant", and sit there *
*for hours on end, pedaling his butt off, to save a measly 50 cents worth *
*of **electricity ?????? Just WHO is gonna do that anyway ??? Lets not *
*everbody volunteer all at once now... hehe*
*Paul R...*


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

This is a macho thing. Imagine us all walking (strolling) into my garden railway, the MIRR, and there sits a treadle sewing machine hooked up to an 8' circle of track surrounding it, and a huge sign nearby that reads: "THE CURRENT RECORD FOR THREE LAPS AROUND THIS TRACK IS 56 SECONDS, HELD BY DUDLY HUNKERBUNS of PEASTICKS. KENTUCKY." Who among us could/would walk past it without giving it a shot? Answer: NOBODY. You might only get it halfway around the first lap before you huff and puff and give up rather than blow it down but I GAR-ON-TEE we'd all be arm wrestling each other for a shot at it. At least I think so. And I promise to post a video on You Tube for us all to watch when the first person (probably me) gives it a shot. I'll keep you posted.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

I understand why you want to do it, even if some people don't. And it should be fun for kids to try. And I don't think it is going to be as exhausting as all that. I can turn a hand crank sewing machine, with one arm, and produce the same output as the models that were equipped with an electric motor that is considerably bigger than that found in most garden train locomotives, and I can produce more with both legs working a treadle than with one arm on a crank. 

I think the first thing to do is make a measurement of the voltage and amperage you need to run your train. Be sure to do this with whatever load (cars and grade) you plan to use. Once you have those, you can look for a generator to match. If you're good with 12-14VDC, then your odds are better than if it is some less common voltage. If you find a generator in the range you need, you shouldn't need anything else electrically. The treadle can be run backwards, so that takes care of reversing if it is a straight DC generator. The generator will have a speed at which it produces full voltage; estimate max speed on the treadle and then use pulleys to convert appropriately. You should be able to use a brush-type DC motor as a generator. It will need to to have sufficient capacity to prevent overheating and burnout, and the right voltage and current characteristics. Do a web search on that concept and you will find lots of info.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I dunno, that Hunkerbun boy is a big lug in his own right. 
I think I'd be more inclined to goad a friend into giving it a try. I don't mind my fun at his expense! 

It will be fun to see what you make. 

Happy Rails 

John


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## ddevoto (Jan 22, 2008)

I dunno, that Hunkerbun boy is a big lug in his own right. 
I think I'd be more inclined to goad a friend into giving it a try. I don't mind my fun at his expense! 

It will be fun to see what you make. 

Happy Rails 

John 

John, 
That sure sounds a lot like Tom Sawyer tried get'in Jim ta white wash dat ole' fence!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I had a treadle style sewing machine. I used it to make Leather Chaps and vests. It was exhausting. My legs would cramp up from working the treadle. 


It was difficult even with just ordinary cloth material. 

I quickly converted it to a DC electric motor.

JJ


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