# What Ever Happened to the K-27 thread?



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

This thread by RGSEast was just getting interesting when the new forums started up.  I think they were getting ready to show some pictures and descriptions of the P5 and Airwire installation in the engine.


 


Since the new forums have started, there has not been any further input or discussion on this subject.


 


It seemed to me that much of the concerns about the Supersocket were not nearly as bad as we had suspected.  It looked like the conversion was going quite smoothly.


 


However, I sure would like to see the remainder of the information.


 


So, what happened?


 


John


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

John,


In chat last nite, Stan said they were all done except for the manufacturers to bless there work..  He thought they would be posting about the middle of the week..  Hope fully he meant this week..


BulletBob


PS I have slept sense then!!


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

From what I have seen so far the socket design is going to work just fine for basic R/C installations.


A basic on board battery R/C installation for any non pnp R/C like Airwire, Locolinc and RCS can be achieved without any modifications to the socket and dummy plug at all.
Once the R/C system and batteries have been installed simply connect the R/C controller output to the "BATTERY" connectors and throw the INPUT switch from TRACK to BATTERY.
That is it.
Performance will be exactly as if it was track powered.


If you want the lights etc to stay on when stationary then a different, although still quite simple, way of connecting the system is needed.
Basically it involves cutting the links on the dummy pcb between the RF chokes and the track pick up traces to isolate the motor from the electronics.
The output of the R/C controller is then fed direct to the motor, either via soldering two wires to the now isolated RF chokes to take advantage of the Bachmann suppression, or to the holes on the pcb marked Motor + and -.
The Bachmann on board electronics can then be powered direct from the fused traction battery supply if you don't care about the lights changing direction, or, they can be supplied by the fused traction batteries via a small DPDT relay the coil of which is controlled by a lighting output of the on board R/C.  This will give you constant brightness lights that change direction enabling the front light to dim prototypically in reverse.  Plus full smoke etc.
No other modifications to the Bachmann wiring are needed.
Some sound systems will need to have the chuff trigger circuit modified.
The loco itself is not touched.
I will very soon have full directions on how to do this in the battery R/C section.


Although I have not been able to run a K 27 so far, Bachmann have re-earned my respect for the way this unit has been wired to suit battery R/C. 
I do have a few suggestions for Bachmann to do with the circuit design that would improve user friendliness.  These suggestions will be forwarded to Bachmann.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony,


 


That sounds really encouraging.  How much electronic skill would a person need to do that install?


I basically have absolutely no knowledge.  I am trying to learn to solder but so far not too successful.


At least it sounds like to get a professional installation will not cost as much as other engines due to the simplicity of the operation for those who are capable of doing it.


 


John


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## Dave Crocker (Jan 2, 2008)

I would just like some information on what is needed to interface the optical sensor to the Phoenix 2K2


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi John.


Since I wrote the above comments I have had a chance to study exactly what Bachmann is actually offering the LS community with the K27.
I have decided not to detail how to modify the existing socket pcb in the tender.  There will be no need to.
Rather I will offer two ways of installing battery R/C.  Neither of which will involve any changes to the existing Bachmann wiring.


Firstly, no matter what brand of battery R/C you will be installing, the Bachmann socket pcb provides an input terminal to access the pcb.
*A.* If you are installing a PNP controller with a built in, or plug in R/C, such as the QSI + Airwire system, you can use the BATTERY - TRACK switch as an effective battery supply ON - OFF switch.  It will be up to you how you actually install the batteries and access them to keep them charged. 
*B.* If you will be installing an non PNP R/C system such as Airwire, Locolinc, RCS or EVO, that TRACK - BATTERY will not really suffice. You will have to still install the batteries plus an overall ON - OFF switch and method of on board charging if you don't want to continually keep removing the tender shell to charge the batteries.
In this instance I will offer the BIK-U3 installation kit plus a Y-CABLE harness for those want to use twin stick Ni-Cd or NiMH batteries that have Tamiya connectors.  
These two items will greatly simplify the installation for either A or B methods no matter which brand of R/C you choose to use.


Assuming you are choosing method B, RCS will detail two ways of going about the battery R/C install.
I won't get into specialist sound systems but rest assured whichever RCS system you use it will be sound compatible.


*1).* This will be a very simple method of installing battery R/C.
The dummy plug is left in place and the output of the onboard R/C controller is simply hooked up to the BATTERY terminals and the TRACK - BATTERY switch is set to BATTERY.  The track voltage is positively isolated so only the output of the R/C controller is fed into the Bachmann electronics.
Performance is just the same as it would be on track power but with a big improvement when compared to running on dirty track.
Because the lights on the K 27 will come on an instant before the loco starts to move, there is no real reason to go to a higher level of installation unless you want to have all the lights on even when stationary.


*2).* Now that RCS is confidant that Bachmann have got the basic socket design right, RCS will be offering a totally new Plug'N'Play R/C controller designed especially for the K 27.  The PNP-1.  

Simply remove the dummy plug and plug in the PNP-1.  
Plug in the suitably mounted RCS RX-8 receiver module.
Then hook up the fused battery supply, via  BIK-U3 if you choose to, and switch the TRACK - BATTERY switch to BATTERY.  (The PNP-1 is designed only for battery power.  You cannot use constant track voltage as the power source).
Then switch the BIK-U3 switch to ON.  
Link the PNP-1 to the RCS TX-24.
You will be set to go.

The PNP-1 will be capable of a genuine 3 amps continuous and be plug compatible with the Phoenix P5 + P5T sound systems.
It will also have options for use with other brands of sound systems.  Because of the way the Phoenix will be wired to the PNP-1, I see no problems using the built in K 27 chuff timer, as it comes from Bachmann.
The RCS PNP-1 controller will have built in motor "noise" suppression so that long range is assured when the system is correctly installed.
Subject to successful testing of PNP-1 prototypes, the PNP-1 will hopefully be available at the end of Feb or early March.

RCS is not in the habit of announcing vapour ware. 

Rest assured, it will happen.

BTW.  This new PNP controller will also fit most AristoCraft PNP locos.


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## Tom T (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice, and timely work Tony! 

I received my K-27 last Thursday (green boiler, no logos), and had a chance to run her on the analog conversion from my older LGB MTS system on Saturday for about two hours. A sweet and powerful engine, and aside from the AC induced buzzing all went well. I discovered lots of areas on my railroad that had rocks that needed to be 'eased' with the trusty 4 1/2" grinder. Fortunately Bermuda limestone shapes easily! 

While she is about the same width as my Connie, she is about 4" longer from back of tender to front of pilot. Most of that is the longer length of the locomotive itself. This longer wheelbase throws the pilot beam somewhat wider on my mostly 10' diameter curves. It is not too bad looking, but one can appreciate the comments about wider being better! I do have one helix which is about 8 1/2' diameter, and she deals with this no problem, but still looks much better on 12'+ diameter curves. BTW, on 10' curves, the outside overhang at the pilot beam is just over 3" from outside of outer rail to beam end. The inside overhang is not appreciably greater than the Connie. 

I discovered a latent design flaw that I built into the layout with the placement of switches being too close to curves: I had two pairs of switches connecting two main lines which were too close to the curves leading into them. The effect was creating double 'S' bends which the 'K' didn't like one bit: She'd just quietly derail in the upright position and trip the breaker! Needless to say, switches are now being moved away from the curves. 

While I realize that Tony is referring to R/C & battery power, I will be going the DCC route (have a 583S in stock), and possibly adding sound at a later date. My gut feeling is to use the solder pad for my connections, but I am confused about if I should remove/modify the dummy board. There seems to be some conflicting information about this, and the Bachmann instructions are not as abundantly clear as I would like. Gut says remove it. Any thoughts anybody? Additionally, has anybody done a Kadee conversion yet? 

Regards from Paradise,


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

John, 

I know Rog (RGSEast) is a bit busy this week, and probably hasn't been online. May be distracted running his new K-27 ??


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom T,


I would remove the analog bd & use a Digitrax DG 583AR decoder..  Should be a "P-n-P" install..


BulletBob


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## Dave Crocker (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony, You wrote _"Because of the way the Phoenix will be wired to the PNP-1, I see no problems using the built in K 27 chuff timer, as it comes from Bachmann."_ 

Could you pass on how this is accomplished. Is this the transistor circuit that was eluded to or away around that will allow any of us to connect a Phoenix 2K2 to the optical sensor?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave. 
I am pretty sure RCS users will not need any extra parts for the chuff timer when fitting the Phoenix P5 + P5T sound system. 
I believe the P2K2 will also work as well. 
It is to do with the way the sound systems are wired to the RCS. 
I cannot speak for any other brand of R/C.


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## Dave Crocker (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony, What I'm looking for is if there are any parts required between the Bachmann optical sensor and the 2K2. I don't want to use auto chuff.


Evidently, your RCS will interface directly.


So far, no one (but Roger Cutter & Stan Ames) has posted that they have made this interface functional, and they are keeping the details a secret.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Dave. 

The P5 + P5T chuff trigger can be assigned to read either high or low. In this case it will need to read low. However, for it to work at all it must have a common ground with the source of the chuff. Something it will have with the way the P5 + P5T will be wired to the RCS PNP-1. Or any other RCS for that matter. 
In other words the power supply for the sound system must be the same power supply for the RCS and the loco electronics. 
I have never tried a P2K2 in any situation so I don't know how it works. Although, I daresay it isn't too different from the P5 + P5T set up. 
As I understand it the chuff "contact" is actually very brief and may need a small capacitor to lengthen the chuff signal. This may impact as a blur of sound at higher speeds.


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## Tom T (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey guys, 

BulletBob kindly made a suggestion that I use a 583AR. Thanks Bob, but as posted I have a 583S 'In Stock'. Since I live outside of the U.S.A. it is not practical or economical to make an exchange or purchase an 'AR' unit. Soooooo, my question remains unanswered: If I hard wire the 583S, do I remove the 'Dummy' or leave it in, or 'Modify' it? Does anybody have a definitive answer? 

BTW, to give something back, The K-27 takes Kadee 830's front and rear. Both line up perfectly with the Kadee guage. You will have to either bend, or cut off the Kadee uncoupling loop as it fouls the pilot. 

Regards,


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

here is some more K stuff 

http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=8242 

cale


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom T,

You are going to have to remove the analog bd..  You will then see the solder pads for the track & motor plus the lites..  Short wires from the pads to the screw tirminals should get you fixed right up..

BulletBob


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