# Oil Well Fire



## trainmaster1989 (Jan 4, 2008)

Hey all,

I am trying to build an Oil Well firefighting scene in g scale (think HellFighters or that one episode of MacGyver). However I am at a loss as to how to simulate the rather intense column of fire encountered in a wellfire. I did think that the flame might be similar to what would be seen on a flame thrower only larger, however I haven't found any resources for how to simulate flamethrowers either.


The display will be viewed both during the day and at night and will be located outside for a month every year during the summer.


I have considered orange colored streamers, but I would like to find a few more options before going with that idea.


Any suggestions on how I might simulate the flames?


Thanks in advance.
Scott


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

acetylene with a carburizing flame? Lots of realistic yella/orange flame, smoke and soot.... Might cause a nosy neighbor to initiate a visit from the VFD, tho


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Scott,

Two possibilities come to mind: First and prob'ly less hassle would be these 'strobe' LED lights in flasher circuits. Second would be a common propane tank nozzle, like for plumbing, a long buried hose and a tank. You'd have to fiddle with the air mixture, maybe by blocking some of the air holes in the nozzle. If you *really* want a flame, get a propane weed-burner nozzle and incorporate it somehow. Bet that'll put the 'gosh' factor 'way up there. If you really, really want to get a show, run a secondary line supplying used motor oil under compression so it sprays into the flame. (This is my favorite.)

That's more than two, but I get carried away.









Les


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 06/02/2009 8:23 PM
Scott,

Two possibilities come to mind: First and prob'ly less hassle would be these 'strobe' LED lights in flasher circuits. Second would be a common propane tank nozzle, like for plumbing, a long buried hose and a tank. You'd have to fiddle with the air mixture, maybe by blocking some of the air holes in the nozzle. If you *really* want a flame, get a propane weed-burner nozzle and incorporate it somehow. Bet that'll put the 'gosh' factor 'way up there. If you really, really want to get a show, run a secondary line supplying used motor oil under compression so it sprays into the flame. (This is my favorite.)

That's more than two, but I get carried away.









Les


*Les... I like your stile and imagination... Who said you can't make black smoke ! ! ! ha ha ha ha








*


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Les, 

> If you really, really want to get a show, run a secondary line supplying used motor oil under compression so it sprays into the flame. 

Yee-haw! I'd pay a dollar to see that. Awesome!


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## wildbill001 (Feb 28, 2008)

Was thinking along the lines of Les as well,i.e., propane fired weed burner. Can get 'em cheap at Harbor Freight.


Other thought I had was maybe contact the local community theater or high school drama dept., and see if they had any ideas.

Could also investigate some of the "fountains" that are for sale around July 4 so see if they produce the effect you are looking for. I've also seen some of these lights/lanterns that use a combination of streamer, light, and fan to simulate fire.


Keep in mind that a blown well generates a lot of a roaring noise because of the pressure. If you simulate fire, you may want to consider sound as well. 



Would love to see video if you get it going !

Bill


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Obviously the best simulation of flames is actual flames. The Clarksons have a propane feed to their "cracking tower" that puts out a nice verticle flame ~12". I've seen burning trees and other similar use of propane flames on other garden railroads.

I originally wanted to have live flames in my volcanos. However, with no real place to put a propane tank and not wanting to run a natural gas line under the existing concrete, I considered a fan with streamers blowing vertically. This proved unsatisfactory as there was not enough air movement available in the volcanos' cauldrens. But, there are several nice lamps that now do this more realistically than I was able to achieve and could potentially be adapted if you want to run 120 volts out to it (ouch).

Ultimately for safety, I settled for lighting, water, and mist to simulate the volcanos and their smoke.

















If I were trying to do a fire as you propose, I would also use lighting, water, and mist. I would put a bunch of bulbs within and along the length of clear/red-orange/whatever tubing enclosing and sealing the ends. The bulbs would flash either through the use of individual flasher bulbs (lots of cheap X-mas bulbs) or via an electronic flame/flicker circuit.

This tube would be placed within a larger diameter clear/red-orange/whatever tube and this tube would be fitted with a bottom fitting so that water will rise along its length and simply cascade down the exterior. The whole thing would be over a grate/catch basin with a recirculating pump. A mister could be placed in a shallow camoflaged dish at the base or something to that effect for smoke. This could all run on low voltage or the commercially sealed pumps are certainly safe.

Harbor Freight sells underwater low voltage fixtures for under $10 complete with transformer and one of these could also shine up from the base. I use one of these underwater to shine up on the water as it cascades over the rim and produces the bright orange glow in the second picture.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bill wrote:

Keep in mind that a blown well generates a lot of a roaring noise because of the pressure. If you simulate fire, you may want to consider sound as well. 





That's a good thought, Bill.

I forgot to mention--but probably don't need to, that you'd want a checkvalve in the oil line, to prevent (a very unlikely) flashback.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Les on 06/02/2009 8:23 PM
Scott,

Two possibilities come to mind: First and prob'ly less hassle would be these 'strobe' LED lights in flasher circuits. Second would be a common propane tank nozzle, like for plumbing, a long buried hose and a tank. You'd have to fiddle with the air mixture, maybe by blocking some of the air holes in the nozzle. If you *really* want a flame, get a propane weed-burner nozzle and incorporate it somehow. Bet that'll put the 'gosh' factor 'way up there. If you really, really want to get a show, run a secondary line supplying used motor oil under compression so it sprays into the flame. (This is my favorite.)

That's more than two, but I get carried away.









Les





LOL, I would suggest strobe lights for the livingroom setup...


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Gasoline, of course - 










-Brian


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## pcentral (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Scott, 
John Wagner told me there is a pipe line in place already to the site. Is this pipe set up for gas or propane? If so, a small burner from a lighter or handheld propane torch could probably be adapted to work. My biggest question is 2E cool with open flames??!! If you can get it worked out it will be an awesome sight, especially at night. The oil field is looking good from what I saw of it. I was pretty busy with the hot metal glue gun so I didn't get much time to check things out! 

Steve


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Now, the geyser at the Chicago Botanic has gotten me a few times. I think I'd be frightened of an oil-well fire


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 06/04/2009 6:55 AM
Now, the geyser at the Chicago Botanic has gotten me a few times. I think I'd be frightened of an oil-well fire










//// Torb:


Ya can't sweat the small stuff!









I wouldn't be a bit scared of an oil-well fire, because I'd be watching it either on TV or from about five miles away!

Les


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## 3lphill (Feb 22, 2008)

Good Afternoon, 

I have to stick my foot into this. As  background, I have spent the last 20 years working in the technical side of live theater, most of that building scenery and effects. So I would like to offer a couple of suggestions: 

Think really hard about whether you really want to use a live fire. 
If you do want real fire spend the time and money to consult with a Pyrotechnician.  
Talk to the city and the fire marshals office to see if it needs a permit, design review and inspection. 
Talk to your insurance broker about adding more insurance to cover your exposers. (Having a permit makes this easer.) 

Fire is risky enough that were I work we subcontract the pyro to specialists, and it is not used much by our customers. 

Given that it sounds neat. The last time we did a big on stage fire what we did was: 
The following is for informational use only. It in no way represents instructions that should be used to build with. If you light your self or anyone else it is your own fault.  

Methane for the fuel. It is lighter than air, will dissipate with out forming puddles of flammable gas. To get the yellow flame you have to have incomplete combustion so the nozzle does not want to mix air in the gas. 
A solenoid operated valve to turn it on and off. 
A oil burner igniter and transformer to light it. I called the person that we use as a subcontractor for pyro and he suggested that a model airplane glow plug will work for a smaller fire. 

I have my marshmallows ready and await further developments. 

Phillip


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Like the volcano at the Chicago Botanic. When somebody asks, "that's all it does," I reply, "The Horticulture club wouldn't let us blow up the garden."


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

What about calcium carbide, a la a miner's head lamp? Can you get enough volitile gas for a decent column of flame? I know we used to get 1" flames out of the lamps we used to wear when caving, and that was just a very small lamp. (Hint - don't have the lamp on when using ropes.) 

Later, 

K


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## trainmaster1989 (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks for all the suggestions guys.  

Unfortunately, open flame probably would not go over well with Fairplex, at least not in this context. So I am restricted to non-flame ideas. 

Bill, 
The sound is a good point. I may be able to come up with something for that. I'll keep it in mind. 

Toddalin, 
The water idea is an interesting one. I will be looking into it for sure. Those volcanoes look excellent. 

Steve, 
There is a small copper pipe about halfway up the hill. Right above the old tunnel portal. Bob and I have possible plans for a small refinery with a live burn-off flame, so the pipe might feed a wellfire in the future, but for now I'm planning on going with fake flames. 

Thanks very much again, 
Scott


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

The Botanic volcano scared the bejeebers out of a little tyke yesterday


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