# Santa Fe's F7 & E8 units Rotating light



## YBelanger (Jul 24, 2011)

I'm looking to model this type of headlights on a Santa Fe unit. Did one of you guys kitbashed one of these on a F3, F7 or E8 before? or something similar? To my knowledge, only Santa Fe had a sort of rotating headlight, is there others?

http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/photo/sf_lts.htm


As seen in action at 1:34, 5:35 and 6:47 on the following YouTube link:







By the way, don't miss the big smoke at 8:42.....

Check also the other Bob Chester Series tubes, they worth to be seen.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is what we done on a Xmas video and looks about like the same thing in the dark as the rotation lights do from a distance.
Check out the first part of the this video with Santa fe A&B running a pass train.




This was done with Sierra Sound card with both Li and L2 together with two LED's on top light.
Just an idea.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you running DCC by any chance? If so there are quite a few decoders that simulate that effect. You can also get something like one of these rotary beacons and mount it sideways:
http://www.mitosal.com/beaconmain.htm
These are nice units with multiple tiny LED's that simulate the effect. There are videos on there you can watch too...

Keith


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## YBelanger (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks Noel and Keith for your reply,

Noel, it's funny that you refer to a christmas video. You probably know that Noel means Christmas in French!

Keith, Yes I'm running DCC. All my decoders inside my locos are QSI aristos & Magnums. Shortly, I'll install my first Titan. As you saw in the YouTube and reference links, the SF type is pretty unique as the light is steady on and rotates in a circular motion, and not pivoting from its own light center (like regular Mars and/or Pyle lights). So it will ended up to use a gearmotor, and fix on it a twin headlight bucket centered: 

http://www.ozarkminiatures.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=734

that will hold 1 white + 1 red LEDs, plus all the the slip rings mechanism to deliver electricity to the white LED as it circles around the shaft. 

That's an interesting project. I have to install this set-up inside an Aristo E-8 and USA trains F-3

I'll send pictures/video when completed.


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## YBelanger (Jul 24, 2011)

This is what I've done so far, endurance testing will occur this week.







I used a Solarbotics GM2 gearmotor and some Athearn HO locomotive electrical pick-up parts.

I cut a hole in the E8 cab floor and it will fit right in.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

YBelanger said:


> This is what I've done so far, endurance testing will occur this week.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkvWcjndOAk
> 
> ...


 
Neat. Can you set the LED white up on a small angle so light will shine around over the side of the tracks? 
We put just two LED's side by side on small angle in our to give that effects using L1 and L2 on Serria sound card. Now our show coming on slowly from side to side. kind of lookslike a ocilationg light you your are doing. Nice work .

Question: Is there enough room for the motor between cab area and front of Eng front?


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

noelw said:


> Neat. Can you set the LED white up on a small angle so light will shine around over the side of the tracks?


I would keep it as is. As is, (without any oscillating angle) it matches the Santa Fe prototype rotating light.

If any angle, it would be "inclined inward" according to this:

SF Rotating Light


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you seeking the "Mars Light" or a "Gyra Light"?

The headlight often referred to as a "Mars Light" is one model of headlight (made by the Mars Manufacturing company) that moved a bulb and reflector in a figure "8" on its side pattern. Basically it swept the reflector in a horizontal path while it simultaneously moved it up and down at twice the frequency.

The "Gyra Light" just moved the bulb and reflector in a circular pattern.

Both were a mechanical contrivance to physically move the light and reflector.

The purpose was two-fold. 1) it presented a flashing/moving light that attracted a motorists attention to an approaching locomotive, and 2) it projected a tighter beam that could illuminate at a greater distance than a flood light would (for a given power/Wattage) but by sweeping the area ahead the engineer could see a larger area.

Here is a web site that describes how to simulate them both using multiple LEDs and a microcontroller.

http://www.trainelectronics.com/MarsLights/article.htm


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

*Neat stuff 
Semper V.*


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Semper Vaporo said:


> Are you seeking the "Mars Light" or a "Gyra Light"?


YBelanger is actually seeking neither. He is trying to replicate the Santa Fe rotating headlight, and I think he's got it spot on. I can't wait to see it mounted in a loco.

I'm not sure if any other roadnames used the rotating style. But it was a staple on Santa Fe passenger F units. Some other Santa Fe passenger locos, such as the Alco PA, had the more typical Mars Light.

As a side note. When I did some research for my HO Santa Fe F3s, I found out that the red portion of the Santa Fe rotating light activated when an emergency brake application was made.


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## YBelanger (Jul 24, 2011)

Noel, Yes I made it as per Santa Fe's specs. The 2 LEDs are slightly incline so their light beam will meet together. I had to partially cut the engineer cabine floor and wall to fit the whole thing inside. My plan is to fix the whole thing on the engineer' cab front wall, slightly inclined as per Matt's link.

Matt, You're right. To my knowledge, only the Santa Fe had this type of light. As you can see in the video, this system had only 2 slip rings....so my red LED is totally dummy. This one will go inside an Aristo E8. My next one will go inside a USA F 3 and it will have 3 slip rings.....

I'll be back home Saturday .

Yves....currently connecting in the city of lights (what a coincidence!)


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## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

YB that is awsome! Be sure to post a pvid of it when installed! Does anyone know of a G scale Mars light like this with an actual physical movement as opposed to an LED simulated movement?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

San Juan said:


> YBelanger is actually seeking neither. He is trying to replicate the Santa Fe rotating headlight, and I think he's got it spot on. I can't wait to see it mounted in a loco.
> 
> I'm not sure if any other roadnames used the rotating style. But it was a staple on Santa Fe passenger F units. Some other Santa Fe passenger locos, such as the Alco PA, had the more typical Mars Light.
> 
> As a side note. When I did some research for my HO Santa Fe F3s, I found out that the red portion of the Santa Fe rotating light activated when an emergency brake application was made.


 
Then he is seeking to replicate the Pyle-National "Gyralight". (Mars Signal Light patented the horizontal figure 8 pattern light so Pyle National's just went in a circle.) There were several other manufacturers that made headlights that moved in some other pattern (Oscitrol was a horizontal sweep in a slight arc), but none were as successful as the Mars Lights and Gyralights.

BTW: "Mars Lights" were also used on Fire Engines!

The Gyralight came in all sorts of configurations... some had a single clear or amber or red lens over the housing and some had two reflectors inside the case that aimed diverging or converging beams, each with a color or clear lens (and a clear lens on the housing).

The Mars and Pyle-National catalogs often didn't list many of their products since they were designed for a particular model of locomotive for a particular RR. And every RR had a "Ford complex" (had a "better idea"!) for what the light should do and when... thus the different color lights, and the Red light that turned on when in Emergency braking, or only when stopped. That red light that came on with the emergency braking application caused some concern with the FRA since it would be on while the train was still moving forward, though in the process of stopping, and the FRA rule is that there be no red lights on a train on the end that is moving 'forward'.

Being mechanical contraptions, they were a bit of an ongoing maintenance headache (and replacement parts were difficult to get since so few of some models were made) and there was an FRA rule that if the headlight was designed to move then it had to be in working order before the locomotive could leave a terminal, which is why the RRs began to replace them with fixed position headlights.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting stuff. Semper V. Tk's for the post. I was about to maybe do a change or something with mine. Now keep the two WB. "A" units the way they are.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

YBelanger said:


> my red LED is totally dummy.


Probably a good thing. Hopefully you won't need to go into emergency 

I'm not 100% sure if the Santa Fe E8m's had the top rotating light. They might have had a different style since they started as Santa Fe E1's. I'll check some photos to see. Doesn't really matter though. Your rotating light will look cool in an E8.

*UPDATE
*Yep Santa Fe E8m's had the rotating light. Not sure if they all did, but some for sure did.


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## YBelanger (Jul 24, 2011)

I just completed the installation inside the cab. Here's a small preview:







In the upcoming weeks, I'll hook it up to a QSI Titan.....To be continued...


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

YB;

Excellent job.

Please don't take offence to this, but the motion makes me think of Gordon rolling his eyes over something Percy said. ;>)

Best,
David Meashey


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, that is cool, neat job! I just used a blinking LED. It is fixed in position.


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