# track to pack connection



## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

This is definitely a rookie question. What's the best way to connect the transformer wires (stranded 12 guage) to the track? Is soldering the best way and if so, do you need a fairly heavy duty iron (any suggested brand name?)? Or are there any type of clamps that could be used (once again, names and manufactureres would be helpful)? Thanks in advance!!!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes, if you use brass or nickel track, solder it diretly to the track. I use a Weller 320 watt gun, but a ~200+ watt pencil style should also work. Clean the area well and use solder paste on the brass. Also you can use 63/37 solder which melts at a slightly lower temp.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For soldering to brass travk I do the following: 

Use a brass wire brush (not steel as magnets on the train pick up the worn brush pieces). 
wet a rag with water (for cooling the track after soldering. 
coat area with solder paste (I have a liquid version) 
Tin wire. 
Now I solder the wire to the track with my Weller 350 watt iron. 
When the solder hardens, I use the wet rag about 6 inches from the joint and slowly move it across the joint to cool the brass. 

Other method is I have used the Hillman power lead rail clamp. Then I got smarter and just cut regular clamps in half. 

Indoors I use the power leads from the LGB starter sets.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I had good luck soldering a wire to a brass rail joiner. It's easier to solder than the rail itself as it doesn't soak up as much heat. Now I don't care about wires to the track


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

On Aristo track I use the screws that hold the ties to the rail. 4 years, no problems and easy to move if necessary. All wiring under the ballast/track and Outa Sight dude! lol


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## sldozier (Apr 5, 2009)

Or are there any type of clamps that could be used (once again, names and manufactureres would be helpful)? 

Split Jaw makes a clamp "power supply connector" specifically designed for connecting track power. They come in Brass and Stainless Steel. 

http://www.railclamp.com/displayCategory.jsp?categoryId=7&vId=107983


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 21 Jul 2009 08:35 AM 
On Aristo track I use the screws that hold the ties to the rail. 4 years, no problems and easy to move if necessary. All wiring under the ballast/track and Outa Sight dude! lol AristoCraft does this with their turnouts and I've had several of these connections fail requiring me to go back and solder jumpers to these turnout sections.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 21 Jul 2009 10:26 AM 
Posted By Totalwrecker on 21 Jul 2009 08:35 AM 
On Aristo track I use the screws that hold the ties to the rail. 4 years, no problems and easy to move if necessary. All wiring under the ballast/track and Outa Sight dude! lol AristoCraft does this with their turnouts and I've had several of these connections fail requiring me to go back and solder jumpers to these turnout sections.



*Correct, Plus you cant use 12 guage wire with aristo track screw holes......*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

When a "newbie" or "rookie" asks a question about how to do something, I give more conservative advice, meaning something I KNOW will work. 

For example, someone who wants track power I say stainless. It will work everywhere (except for Art Lamb's place!), whereas brass MAY work great for some people, and be a track cleaning disaster for others. 

Likewise here on connecting track power. What can I recommend that will SURELY work for this guy? I live in a place where ALL of the wiring and connections under my Aristo switches have rotted away, and the little screws and wires have rusted, rotted, etc. 

Clearly Totalwrecker lives somewhere else and has better luck. 

But, back to my main point, what is the BEST suggestion to the POSTER to most sure it will work? 

Large gauge solid wire, soldered in a crimp terminal, clamped/bolted to the track, my best suggestion. I did not even mention soldering. Many people cannot make a good solder joint. Solder joints can fatigue and crack over time. 

So, that's why I think we all need to consider who is asking the question, and how the best suggestions can be made. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Jul 2009 03:03 PM 

Large gauge solid wire, soldered in a crimp terminal, clamped/bolted to the track, my best suggestion. I did not even mention soldering. Many people cannot make a good solder joint. Solder joints can fatigue and crack over time. 


Reading through this thread, I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the importance of making a good, solid *mechanical* connection before soldering.

A solder joint is meant to provide an *electrical* connection, never to provide a mechanical connection. Even when components are wave soldered on a printed circuit board, the componet leads are always first crimped to provide mechanical stability before they run through the wave solder bath..

I don't know how many solder connections I have seen fail after several years because the connection wasn't properly mechanically secured first.

A crimp terminal like Greg suggests is great - you get the mechnical connection and then you can solder to get a more reliable electrical connection.


I know - I can hear it now. Comments like "I just soldered and it has held for seven years". On the other hand, a friend of mine just had to rip out all his switches because he just soldered jumper wires, underneath no less, and the connection that was just soldered, not mecchanically secured, eventually failed.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, I have 4 crimping tools, I learned from a guy who designed stuff that goes into space about mechanical connections BEFORE soldering! 

I have a friend that has soldered jumpers on his brass track sections. There is ALWAYS a broken one when I go to his house, they are just "lap soldered" to the side of the rail. 

Crimping is an art also, not just crushing the round barrel on the wire, but a crimper that makes the square indentation into the barrel that makes the mechanical and gas-tight connection to the wire. 

Regards, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Jul 2009 03:03 PM 
When a "newbie" or "rookie" asks a question about how to do something, I give more conservative advice, meaning something I KNOW will work. 

For example, someone who wants track power I say stainless. It will work everywhere (except for Art Lamb's place!), 
Regards, Greg 



Not so.

Dave Bodner is having a devil of a time using stainless track at the indoor set-up at the Children's Hospital. Seems like no matter how clean he gets the track, when the engines receive electricity to start their run, they don't move untill they receive a physical nudge.

The probable solution..., replace this section with brass or nickle-silver track with a direct soldered connection.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Oh yeah, I live somewhere else..... ???? Kinda glad I do. 

Been 4 years and no problem, so when I report what HAS worked for me..... all y'all get to say what you want? 

Granted the screws are small and I soldered the wire ends in a loop... but dang it, it does, has and will continue to work. These are the screws on the underside that secure the ties, not the joiners, I wanted them hidden. 

My track free floats in rock ballast, it does not sit on a wooden board nor concrete. I get torrential downpours and an hour later there is no standing water to destroy my track, magically it all drains off. I run SS track and use those tiny screws to hold it together. No conductive grease in the joints, the screws provide mechanical connections as well as electrical. There is one power hookup on an 80' loop. Plus spurs and passing siding. 

I screen my own ballast and roadbed rocks here on my property; larger below and finer over the ties. I winnow out the dirt on windy days... most any day here.... dry cleaning rocks.... 

Y'know the 1:1 guys wash their ballast too? Water and fertilizer salts can cause you guys other complications.... and dirt holds it in. 

I'm wondering what you guys are doing wrong to make it so complicated! lol 

Why would you imply that I was trying to lead somebody astray? If you think your way is better say it, but it was my BEST suggestion. It's my first connection and is still strong, I get 24v through it. 

Sorry you guys haven't been as lucky. 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Re; Dave B., 

What brand wheels (locos) is he running,? Some arc badly and leave black carbon deposits (well I think it's carbon) that breaks the conductivity of the track. 

One trick I used to beat that was I glued small sections of scotch-brite on the frame to wipe the wheels and track, also helped with black ants! I sprayed it black. 

John


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 21 Jul 2009 05:44 PM 
Re; Dave B., 

What brand wheels (locos) is he running,? Some arc badly and leave black carbon deposits (well I think it's carbon) that breaks the conductivity of the track. 

One trick I used to beat that was I glued small sections of scotch-brite on the frame to wipe the wheels and track, also helped with black ants! I sprayed it black. 

John 


As I noted, the track can be totally clean to a polished finish and it happens.


In your case, you've been lucky. But 4 years is not long in this hobby. It took about 10 years for me to loose my latest connection under an AristoCraft turnout. Give it time.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 21 Jul 2009 04:54 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Jul 2009 03:03 PM 
When a "newbie" or "rookie" asks a question about how to do something, I give more conservative advice, meaning something I KNOW will work. 

For example, someone who wants track power I say stainless. It will work everywhere (except for Art Lamb's place!), 
Regards, Greg 



Not so.

Dave Bodner is having a devil of a time using stainless track at the indoor set-up at the Children's Hospital. Seems like no matter how clean he gets the track, when the engines receive electricity to start their run, they don't move untill they receive a physical nudge.

The probable solution..., replace this section with brass or nickle-silver track with a direct soldered connection.


I doubt that has anything to do with either the soldered connection or the material the track is made of.
Based on what you posted, I think it is a problem with the engine. 


Easy enough to test.

Knut


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Hey guys- just wanted to say thanks for all of the info. It is definitely appreciated! I'll be laying track (hopefully) in mid August, and all of these rookie questions need to be answered before I start. Thanks again.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 21 Jul 2009 07:09 PM 
Posted By toddalin on 21 Jul 2009 04:54 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Jul 2009 03:03 PM 
When a "newbie" or "rookie" asks a question about how to do something, I give more conservative advice, meaning something I KNOW will work. 

For example, someone who wants track power I say stainless. It will work everywhere (except for Art Lamb's place!), 
Regards, Greg 



Not so.

Dave Bodner is having a devil of a time using stainless track at the indoor set-up at the Children's Hospital. Seems like no matter how clean he gets the track, when the engines receive electricity to start their run, they don't move untill they receive a physical nudge.

The probable solution..., replace this section with brass or nickle-silver track with a direct soldered connection.


I doubt that has anything to do with either the soldered connection or the material the track is made of.
Based on what you posted, I think it is a problem with the engine. 


Easy enough to test.

Knut




Nope.

Same engine runs fine on other track. He is going to change the 2' section to NS from the old layout that will better match the stainless. This was actually my suggestion with brass but NS is a better match.

Dave is an electronics whiz and knows what he's doing! We'll know soon.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Hard to rationalize why this would have anything to do with the material the track is made of - be really interesting to hear what comes of it. 

I assume the engine lights don't come on either until the engine gets a little push and starts to run.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As has been stated earlier, there will always be someone bringing forth the exceptional case, rather than the greater average experience. 

The whole point of my last post was to recommend things that have a better statistical chance of working to newcomers. 

So, of course someone JUST HAS to bring up the rare, unusual case. 

Regards, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By krs on 21 Jul 2009 07:33 PM 
Hard to rationalize why this would have anything to do with the material the track is made of - be really interesting to hear what comes of it. 

I assume the engine lights don't come on either until the engine gets a little push and starts to run. Right.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Jul 2009 08:23 PM 
As has been stated earlier, there will always be someone bringing forth the exceptional case, rather than the greater average experience. 

The whole point of my last post was to recommend things that have a better statistical chance of working to newcomers. 

So, of course someone JUST HAS to bring up the rare, unusual case. 

Regards, Greg I don't know...









Makes me kind of not trust it in situations where trains could continually stop and start day in day out year after year out. Brass is a proven commodity.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So one layout and one experience cancel out the huge experience with many other people? 

So, if I jump off a cliff and live, it proves that everyone should jump off a cliff? 

Are you telling me you want to take this exception and base your entire opinion about stanless steel rail on it, and throw away the hundreds of people that use stainless after switching from brass? 

I give up, your response and reasoning is exactly what I am trying to get people to not do for people new to the hobby, go with the larger experience, not the exceptions... 

sigh... 

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Jul 2009 08:48 PM 
So one layout and one experience cancel out the huge experience with many other people? 

So, if I jump off a cliff and live, it proves that everyone should jump off a cliff? 

Are you telling me you want to take this exception and base your entire opinion about stanless steel rail on it, and throw away the hundreds of people that use stainless after switching from brass? 

I give up, your response and reasoning is exactly what I am trying to get people to not do for people new to the hobby, go with the larger experience, not the exceptions... 

sigh... 

Greg 
Sorry, but I think that the larger experience supports brass.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm not quite sure what you two are arguing about. 

The problem of having the nudge the engine to get it to run is obviously not an inherent characteristic of stainless steel rail. There are thousands of people using it both in Europe and North America - and the stop and start theor trains all day long. 
I still think the problem is engine related - every problem like that which I have ever seen was traced back to the locomotive itself. 

But we shal see what the verdict is. 

Knut


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

When it's waiting for a nudge, are the lights on?


I'm guessing the motor has a burned out winding causing a dead spot.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Gosh I'm Exceptional! What flattery! 

Greg, no offence, but I thought these forums were open to all suggestions and when one offers a valid method that has been proven to work (albeit not as long as some) why must the poster be thrashed? There are nicer ways to say; hey we've had trouble that way than a disertation that implies (this) one would want to lead another astray, while puffing your own chest, (this is how I do it). 

Greg I apreciate all the quality advice you freely give and I thank you for the help I've gained from your posts. 

Yet in this country we often have more than one way to skin a cat.... let's look at the conditions that can cause those screws to corrode ...water, fertilizer salts and perhaps a high constant voltage, ( I believe you stated that you left the power on 24/7) yep all those could contribute.... Whereas, a dry roadbed that drains properly, removes the salts ability to disolve into the connection.... so perhaps more time spent under the track (self draining roadbed) can help it survive ... my way. 

NOT ALL STAINLESS FROM CHINA IS OF EQUAL QUALITY 

I have 2 -2' sections of SS that always slow the trains down, it is just not as conductive as the rest of my rail, I'd be really pissed if the rest of my track was like those two sections and I would never advocate Stainless. These sections do cause arcing. Once more; these two sections of track DO CAUSE arcing, doesn't happen anywhere else on my layout of 200'. I suspect that they are caused by quality fade that China is infamous for; looks ok on the outside, but no one knows what's in it. 

If Dave has a layout of this track, he's in for a tough job, I've not found anything to cure the effect. They're placed in slow order country; leading into a curve and leading into a switch so it looks like I'm paying attention to the throttle.... 

Just another reason I'm converting to batteries and R/C ... makes all track equal. I'm still going to have track power; to recharge my batteries and to power lights around the layout, but not to control the trains. 

John


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 22 Jul 2009 07:47 AM 
When it's waiting for a nudge, are the lights on?


I'm guessing the motor has a burned out winding causing a dead spot.


Something like that was my thought as well.
But that question was already answered, see the first post on this page.
Posts on this forum don't have sequential numbers - another small deficiency that I'm not used to.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry, I'm too ADD to dig through all the aruging over who suggested what and who said what first to find the important details.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Too ADD ??????????

I'm waiting for Todd to post back with an explanation how SS track somehow caused that problem.

I think we're done with suggestions.


Knut


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## robroy (Nov 17, 2009)

My out door railway is subjected to all the weather extremes that Australia can dream up, like every thing from Arizona to Florida to Washington often in one day.The stress placed on electrical connections is considerable, soldered joints can fall apart. we have had 4 failures during public displays to much embarasment.To get round this problem I have used "Split Jaw" joiners item # 40059. I know they are for joining track ,BUT if you cut them in half with a 32 tooth hack-saw & file the cut smooth, you have a first-class clamp. put a crimp terminal under the head of the locking screw.It may be a bit expensive,but it saves on stress. Temp ranges from -10 degrees C to air temp 42 degrees C metal temp of the track in the sun 60 degrees plus. The track bed is 100 year old Douglas Fir planks 14 inch X 2 inch impregnated with creosote. They were the deck of a barge in Sydney Harbour, got them cheap as the recycler didnot know what todo with them.
I wish this site had spellcheck.
robroy


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