# Building a rock wall..



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Im going to build a rock wall in the front of our house.. 
a short retaining wall, dry laid, to hold in a garden bed.. 
like this: 

http://www.bellewood-gardens.com/Carousel%20Lavender_Stone%20Wall.jpg 

thats just a random photo off the internet. 

I just went out and measured it to get a rough estimate of how much stone I need.. 
I would like my math double-checked please!  
I think its correct.. 

its on a slight slope, so its not the same height throughout. 
(top will be level..bottom isnt level) 
I divided it into three rough sections: 

10 feet long by 6" high. 
15 feet long by 8" high 
10 feet long by 12" high. 

all widths are 1 foot. 

doing the math, I get 25 square feet, which is just under 1 square yard.. 
does that sound correct? 

im having a very difficult time finding stone..but thats another story. 
I cant bring myself to pay $200 for a pallet of stone at the garden center, 
when there is stone laying all over the countryside.. 
im trying to find cheaper stone I can pickup myself. 
the quest continues.. 

My Dad has tons of stone just laying about his property, his entire garden railway is built of stone: 










but it would cost $50 in gas just to get down there and back with the pickup truck, 
and it would take 3 or 4 trips to get enough..which works out to the same as buying the 
$200 pallet of stone at the garden center! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/doze.gif 
so im looking into local quarries and craigslist and such.. 

thanks, 
Scot


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot, 
Back when I lived in Pa and was starting to landscape the house there I was scavenging rocks from the countryside. Long arduous task that yeilded me enought flat stone to line the creek/drainage ditch sort of. The problem being it was all different colors and textures. Getting permission from land owners was also problematic too. IF they will deliver that pallet of stone for $200 it's a deal. You get choices of color and texture that way too. 

As far as math is concerned I'd agree with you BUT find out before you spend money if they figure the "Yard" of rocks the same way and check your volume on the pallet or basket or whatever. Similar to buying a cord of wood, if they aren't as "tight" your getting shorted on volume. Therefore your "yard" may not go as far as you want. 

If you buy better to ask. They'll know for sure. 

Chas


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot, 

A typical pallet of wall stone (1.5 -1.7 tons) will give you about 15 - 20 square face feet on a dry laid wall. $200/pallet is a dirt cheap price if thats for a full pallet and not a half pallet sold by some garden centers. You would spend more than that on gas and time scavenging stone. 

-Brian


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

If you are building the garden up, don't forget to calculate the amount of dirt you will need. It might surprise you.


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## hap (Jan 3, 2008)

Scott you were calculating a cubic yard(3X3X3=27) instead of square yard(3x3=9) so therefore you would almost need 3 square yards of stone.


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

I agree about stone pricing, it's so high for the labor involved /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 

Therefore I just went to the local limestone quarry and got rocks for $6 a ton!  












I have not gotten around to building the wall yet but plan on using bagged mortor and just fill in the cracks...don't forget drainage though.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By hap on 05/07/2008 8:55 PM
Scott you were calculating a cubic yard(3X3X3=27) instead of square yard(3x3=9) so therefore you would almost need 3 square yards of stone.




but I calculated 25 cubic feet.. 
and a square yard, 3x3x3 feet, is 27 cubic feet. 
3 square yards would be 81 square feet..3 times more than I need. 
so..im not sure which of us is right!  

I think I am..but yes, all this squaring and cubicing gets confusing!  
let me try it again: 

10 feet long by 6" high = 5 cubic feet. 
(thats where I caused some confusion..I said "5 square feet" when I meant "5 cubic feet") 

15 feet long by 8" high = (15 x 0.66) = 10 cubic feet. 

10 feet long by 12" high. = 10 cubic feet. 

total = 25 cubic feet. 
one cubic yard = 3x3x3 feet = 27 cubic feet. 

So one cubic yard (one full pallet) should be enough. 
correct? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif 

I have tried one local quarry, but they wont let me pick up stone with my truck, 
because of the trucks actual weight as compared to the weight on the registration.. 

im going to try more local quarries..there are quite a few around here. 

thanks, 
Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

p.s. 
I did it again.. 
anywhere I say "square" in any of my posts above I actually mean "cubic".. 
sorry for causing confusion.. 

I am doing no measuring at all in square feet...everything is cubic. 

Scot


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot, 
Hap said it much better than I did in my post. You are concerned about the look of the outside face primarily. Therefore you need to look at the outside square footage. Similar to the way some folks sell a cord of wood or rather a "face" cord. 

When we built retaining walls at my grandparents cottage at the lake we dry stacked and back filled with gravel. The important thing was the face, what was behind was all gravel fill. Of course we were scavenging slate rocks from the lake bed too. 

Chas


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot, 

Another cheap source of rock is local building sites. The problem with this source is typically, the rocks you get are imbedded in dirt, so vehicles tend to get dirty. 

The nice thing about having the rock on a pallet is storage. When I do rock projects, I usually end up with a pile, and that doesn't usually go over well with MB. Plus, since all the rock is roughly the same size, your wall will actually look better than a hodge podge like mine!! Although, scavenging rocks is kind of fun, and then you have an interesting story to tell about rocks! 

I'm a little confused by you math. 

What depth are you assuming for the rocks? The volume is comprised of the three dimensions... 

10' long x .5' high x .3' deep? = 1.5 ft^3 etc... 

Since they are selling you rock by the cubic foot, you'll want to know how much volume you'll need.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Im using a measurement of one foot for the width.. 
I said that in the first post.  
but I then stopped referring to it.. 

10' long x 6 inches high x 1' wide = 5 cubic feet. 

15' long by 8 inches high x 1' wide = (15 x 0.66) = 10 cubic feet. 

10' by 12 inches high x 1' wide = 10 cubic feet. 

total = 25 cubic feet. 
one cubic yard = 3x3x3 feet = 27 cubic feet. 

So one cubic yard (one full pallet) should be enough. 
correct? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif 

thanks, 
Scot


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott 

Most likely any quarry wont over fill your truck. They are responsible if you have an accident from being overloaded. With that I have a 1/2 ton truck and a yard of stone is pretty much way over limit but will handle the weight, I would not trust it over few miles. All the local places here in NJ are very strict even more with non commercial trucks. You can have the stone delivered for usually a 30.00 charge Sonce you need more than one pallet thats not bad at all. They can also include the soil in the same load. They will dump the soil and stone at once but the stone would be loaded in front to dump on top of the soil. At least they do it here. 

Jay


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Hate to tell a story on someone that I am sure doesn't read this forum and thus won't be able to defend himself, but well... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif I dood it anyway. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 

I'll just say he was an acquaintance... and, NO, i'twern't me, I would never have even started the project he was a doin'! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif 

He was in the process of enlarging his garage and after he had expanded all four walls out a few feet each and re-did the roof (over the course of a year), he was ready to pour a concrete floor. He was making his own concrete in a home-made mixer. 

So he goes to the aggregate dealer with his beat-up ol' pickup and asks for a load of sand. The end-loader operator knew his business and dumped only a small portion of the end-loader's bucket into the bed. Those of you that know the weight of sand versus the volume know the very small amount in the bed and the weight it was. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif 

My acquaintance didn't, and yelled at the operator to put more in. The guy protested but my acquaintance persisted and absolved the dealer of all responsibility. So the guy put sand in until my acquaintance said to stop. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif 

On the way home he had to drive under the main multi-track underpass (hey a railroad tie-in!) in the downtown area (8 tracks I believe!). The dip in the street there to go under the tracks was just enough to cause the truck to flex in the middle and snap its back. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif 

The Police came and insisted the truck be moved! (No kidding! Who'd a thought! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif ) Anyway, the first tow service looked the situation over, said "No." and left. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif The second one didn't even stop the truck, just drove on by. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif The third answered the phone, "Are you guy on the ground under the tracks?" /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif He finally found an industrial towing service that brought out a truck that was almost too big to fit in the underpass. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif I don't know what the cost was, but it must have set his Daddy back a bit! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif Anyway, it managed to drag the whole mess out and to my acquaintance's house where he hand shoveled the sand out, jacked the truck up in the middle and welded it back together! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 

Use the same truck to go get more sand and the coarser aggregate, but made multiple trips for the amount needed.


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been to a bunch of rock yards and have been involved in some materials buying off and on for thirty plus years. In my experience, pourable soft type stuff like sand, dirt, mulch, gravel, etc. is typically sold by volume as in cubic yard. However, stacked material like flagstone, rocks and stuff with lots of air in it is normally sold by weight. So, you're not going to buy a yard of rock like Scot was looking for, you'll buy a half ton or so. Depending on the type of stone, a pallet can be anywhere from a half tone to two tons or more. Manufactured items like blocks and bricks are often sold by the piece or pallet. 

Depending on the dealer and how its loaded, you may pay by weight for sand and similar materials, especially heavier stuff and your own truck. They weigh you going in and weigh you going out and you pay for the difference. It's also to be sure you're not overloaded for liability issues. 

My $.002. 

Michael


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

try renting a trailer from your local rental place, or a dump truck? I saw that Home Depot now rents dump trucks in my area!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif


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## imrnjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Generally ...or rather in my experience/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif...a full pallet of stone will be a ton and a quarter or better in weight.... I bought 2 pallets of flag stone for walks and my tractor will pick up about 3200 on the forks, well without any counter-balanceing weight on the rear end of the an 8K pound machine I went nose down with one of them and just barely got the other off the trailer at all /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif..... 

and depending on the type of stone a pallet should build 25-28 sq ft of wall about 1 foot thick with a dry stack method... and about 325-400 sq ft of walk with 1" thick stones 

We estimate 12% loss in the material...for color, size, and cutoffs to fit. Pre-cut/sized a bit less, but uncut at least that/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif 

Good luck 

Mark


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