# HDPE products for ladder back construction



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm in the Sun City, AZ area and looking or suppliers of HDPE (composite plastic wood products) for construction of a ladder back style raised (elevated) train bed. I have one layout (small) that is made out of dimensional 1x3 and 1x4 lumber, but even after painting, sealing and everything else I could think of, it is starting to come apart in the Arizona sunshine. Water doesn't seem to be doing too much. But I would really like to find some composite plastic materials that could be either ripped to a good bendable dimension or come up with something that would last five or more years.

Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks, Ed


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I can at least suggest that you keep clear of Trex and its successor products. Had a Trex deck installed in California which lasted only a year before the surface started to crumble from sunlight. Within two most of the surface resembled rough concrete, gray and uneven--with sections that were out of the sun still wood-grained and the correct color. I don't have a suggestion for an alternative, but the Trex was a complete waste of money.

Possibly your best bet is to peruse garden/yard sites and find out what's worked for others in Arizona.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you tried the PVC board from Home Depot or Lowe's?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Get trim boards that you only cut to length. There are plastic boards at HD and Lowes.
John


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

I consider myself fairly savy with Home Depot inventory, but haven't run across PVC "board". I will inquire at the pro-desk, but if you have any suggestions of where it might be located, I will start looking around. Fully understand the issue with TREK. I have thought about Fiberon, I used it before as a decking materials, but not sure how well it will bend and not "crack" for my use with the curved sections.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Dunno about Home Despot, but I find it at Menards in the Door and Window Trim area. Especially garage door trim. It is not rigid enough for home structural use, but is very nice as Trim.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

http://www.homedepot.com/s/pvc+trim+boards?NCNI-5

note they are multipaks/ not single board prices


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

You can get plastic trim; one application is things like institutional surfaces where appearance is a minimal concern, but cost and easy clean-up are.

A product called "starboard," intended for marine applications, is another option. 

Plastic doesn't appeal to me as a railway structural material, since it is weak for it's bulk and weight. Efficient strength to weight ratio depends on how material is distributed in a beam - I beams and hollow rectangular tubes are called for.

I might try galvanized metal studs, too, as they are readily available and not very expensive.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Please pay attention here Big Red....
Have you built a system employing the ladder as a base to lay track over?....
By your comment to use a galvenized metal stud...
......my guess here....you have not...

So lets try to be relavant and helpfull....

The sole purpose of the plastic runners is such that they "can flex", thus making it possible to create curves..
Risers are usually spaced 16" - 24".
This is not too weak for G trains to be supported by...
And most will back fill with dirt...which gives more support...

Your metal studs might be great for raised layouts ...no scenery...no curves

D


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

I have used PVC trim boards, 5/4 x 4 x 18 feet which I rip to 5/4 x 2. Very flexible, yet stiff for roadbed. I use them as side rails. I drive 1.5" PVC pipe to 24 inches below grade as supports. Attach board to pipe with short deck screws with Torx heads, so much better then Phillips heads. Some is 2-3 feet above grade, some at grade depending on elevation of the RR. Last brutal winter, no shifting at all, I was pleased.
NOW where to get it, I am in Maryland, and searched quite a bit, found the product at local lumberyard chain called 84 Lumber. I remember hearing of a product called "bender board" that seems to only be available in the western part of our country, perhaps that is another option for you in AZ.

Regards

Jerry


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Found my pvc trim at Lowes, Home Depot and Menards.

Don


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks all, and armed with this information I will get back to Home Depot and/or Lowes to see where it is hidden or whether I have to purchase it on-line. I remember 84 Lumber when we lived in Arlington, VA....but that was ages ago...oh wait, I am old...Ha. Again thanks everyone.

Ed


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I used Trex 1x6 ripped in half as the sides of my ladder and also made a people bridge using it. Only issue I had was the bridge needed braces every 12 - 14 inches to get rid of the flex during warm weather. Sections of my ladder have been in place since last Feb. with no issues. I'm located in Sierra Vista AZ so I don't get the really "warm" days you do.
Alan


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## wilbeck (Dec 10, 2008)

*Plastic Roadbed*

I have been Using AZEK Sheets, which come in 4x6 ft. sizes 1/2 in. thick, ripped to 1 in. width and secured with blocks of cellular PVC 2x2 in. ripped to size and cut to length for the spacers, glued and screwed. the AZEK I obtained from a local lumberyard and the Cellular PVC from Menards. Hopefully here is a picture of the result:


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Alan, 
Keep your Trex buried, I could have shown you sections of it failing. Always an interior surface failed.... it crumbled and split. Mine was exposed a couple 3 years.
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

TW John. I put the cut edges down since several people mentioned TREX crumbling after the exterior coating as removed. On people bridge the cut edges are butted up to the wall blocks. So far so good
Alan


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## RGSNH (Jan 13, 2008)

the most recent plastic decking I got from home depot is almost solid PVC. cur it any way you want. pebbled finish on one side and wood grain on the other.

Al P.


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Here's is a way of using PVC boards for splines.
http://largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22218/solid-pvc-spline-roadbed/view/post_id/257214


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Steel Channel;

[EMAIL="http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/8990-new-canadian-track-takes-shape.html"][EMAIL="http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/8990-new-canadian-track-takes-shape.html"]http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/8990-new-canadian-track-takes-shape.html[/EMAIL][/EMAIL]

Source for steel channel; Home Depot, (I paid) $4.57; 2" x 4" x 10'. Dan is fond of saying he weights 200# and can stand on his layout.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

HDPE:
High-density polyethylene (HDPE) or polyethylene high-density (PEHD) is a polyethylene thermoplastic made from petroleum. Known for its large strength to density ratio, HDPE is commonly used in the production of plastic bottles, corrosion-resistant piping, geomembranes, and plastic lumber. HDPE lumber is commonly recycled plastic bottles, and has the number "2" as its resin identification code (formerly known as recycling symbol). 

HDPE comes in both common dimension lumber and sheets. Sheets available in more thicknesses than plywood; 8', 10' or 12' lengths Often called plastic lumber and plastic plywood. There is no wood content in HDPE lumber products.


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## Shay Logger (Apr 21, 2015)

I too am building a raised roadbed out of pvc trim - and held up by 1 1/4 inch pvc Sch 40 --- Wondering how high I can raise the roadbed above the ground if there is a vertical pvc support every 2 feet ---- I was thinking of making a figure 8 that starts at 2 feet above the ground and goes as high as 2 feet 11 inches - and is supported partly (about 1/2) by raised landscape like mtns etc.

Is this height too extreme for a pvc raised roadbed? If so what is a recommended height max?


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Shay, I use 1-1/2" pipe as risers and mine is raised 30" (above ground) at the highest, and mine are spaced further than yours, 4' on the straights and 2' on the curve. I haven't tried standing on mine, but it's definitely more than enough for the trains - double main line.

-Jim


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Shay, I've used 2" ABS pipe for risers and like Jim, I space them about every 4 feet on the straight, maybe 2-1/2 feet on center for the 8' and 10' diameter track. I would bury them about 12" and fill the holes with concrete. After they set up for a couple of days, I go back and pour a slurry of very wet concrete into the tubes to about 4" of the top....makes the entire support rigid. Mine are running about 30" above grade as well. Ed


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## Shay Logger (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks - is that inside diameter or outside for the pvc?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I'd go with 1 1/4" pipe to keep the side rails of the ladder closer to being under the track rails. Don't depend on the ends of the ties, I think they will bend and sag with sunlight and time.
John


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Shay:

Here's a table of standard PVC pipe, most notably schedule 40 and 80, that is most commonly used - http://www.all-about-pipe.com/pvc-pipe-dimensions.html

This should answer your query.


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## Shay Logger (Apr 21, 2015)

Thanks, folks


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