# Deeply confused beginner seeking guru advice



## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Hi all,

I'm Tanner, I have been an active modeler in the radio control hobby for nearly 20 years and do it as my profession (if you frequent the larger radio control forums you will have undoubtedly stumbled across me). Since I'm a big tinkerer, I thoroughly enjoy playing with different hobbies and have always had a captivation in railroading. Due to a truly unfortunate circumstance of stopping by the local model railroad shop to pick up some general supplies I needed, my girlfriend decided she wanted to poke around the store and was instantly enamored by the G scale trains they had on display  I have been tasked with doing homework on this scale of train (1:29 scale?) and thus my endless days of internet google-fu in order to satisfy the better half were started. 

However, it seems as though this scale is not overly popular and there is little local support or use outside of the LHS (speaking in my area). I spoke very briefly with the hobby shop owner and didn't get that great of a vibe from him, he seemed to be more fascinated with the HO or N scale trains and not overly up to speed on the tech surrounding the larger scales. The internet does not seem to be turning up as much info as I was hoping for to answer even some of my most basic questions like _Are brands interchangeable, I.E. can I stick a Piko car behind an MTH loco?_

Any guiding hand the experienced conductors and/or engineers can offer a beginner in need would be greatly beneficial. Ultimately, the goal would be to assemble a garden-esque (probably more than likely a rock garden, due to ease of maintenance  ) type of layout in a small 10x20ft area with hopefully 2 separate loops, powered rail would be nice as would the realistic sounds but these are not totally necessary and ultimately longevity and durability is the end goal. I'm not after total realism either, though modern diesel electric loco's are my favorite. Thanks!


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## greghile (Jun 10, 2008)

Welcome Tanner! First of all, consider yourself blessed to have a girlfriend enamored by model trains. That's a very good start.

G scale, aka large scale, is somewhat of an anomaly in model railroading in that, unlike, for example, HO being 1:87 scale, there is no one precise scale in large scale. It ranges from roughly 1:13 to 1:32. Many of the trains produced by major manufacturers have fudged their scales anyway. As for myself, I like to build model structures and I do so in 1:24 scale but my trains can vary either way. Unless you are a rivet counter, and it sounds like you are not, don't get hung up too much on scale. What's more important is the width between the rails, which is pretty much standard at 45 mm, and that is what makes different brands mostly interchangeable.

Where in southern California do you live? The reason for asking is that there are a number of clubs, people and LHS around that you might want to get in touch with. I live in the Bay Area, but was born in Long Beach, grew up in Orange County, and still visit family down there several times a year. In any event, all of your ideas are definitely doable.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

This might be helpful:












All "g scale" track is 45mm gauge. You can also find a plethora of threads discussing the topic by googling "site:mylargescale.com scale gauge".


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> The internet does not seem to be turning up as much info as I was hoping for to answer even some of my most basic questions like _Are brands interchangeable, I.E. can I stick a Piko car behind an MTH loco?_


They all run on 45mm track. Whether you like the look of a 1/26th scale Piko car behind a 1/32nd scale MTH loco is personal preference.

In general, models of narrow gauge equipment are interchangeable. Bachmann, LGB, Aristocraft, Accucraft and others all make cars in 1/20 to 1/24th scale. As ng equipment varied in size, it all looks good together.

In standard gauge or modern railroading, MTH stuff looks smaller than the 1/29th scale stuff of Aristocraft (now long out of business) and USA Trains. LGB scales are flexible, so again it's a matter of personal preference.

A more pressing problem is couplers. MTH and Piko do not use the same type (as far as I know.) Most people have to standardize - at least within any given train consist.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Thanks, the particular compatibility issue wasn't so much as the gauge of the track but more with the couplers themselves. I had another post typed up but it seems to have disappeared... I stumbled across Charles Ro and it looks like they have all that I would need. USA Trains is very interesting to me as well as AirWire control, I believe I will be going those routes as radio controlled battery powered toys is right down my avenue.

USA Trains has a starter kit with an NW-2 loco that appears to have support from AirWire for drop in RC conversions. Given the cost and these other factors, I may just start with this to gain experience with installing AirWire and expand as needed.


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## greghile (Jun 10, 2008)

both are excellent choices!


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Xpress said:


> Thanks, the particular compatibility issue wasn't so much as the gauge of the track but more with the couplers themselves. I had another post typed up but it seems to have disappeared... I stumbled across Charles Ro and it looks like they have all that I would need. USA Trains is very interesting to me as well as AirWire control, I believe I will be going those routes as radio controlled battery powered toys is right down my avenue.
> 
> USA Trains has a starter kit with an NW-2 loco that appears to have support from AirWire for drop in RC conversions. Given the cost and these other factors, I may just start with this to gain experience with installing AirWire and expand as needed.


We can supply any thing that USA has in stock at a little lower price, we also keep all Air Wire products in stock. Would look forward to any help that we can be.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

It's always been curious to me, how you can dig for days looking for info and not find anything, then miraculously you find a random link to one little item and suddenly you are engorged with all of the information you can handle because of that one little item. Looking forward to this new adventure.

Don't hold your breath though, with us looking to move out of California I may be holding off on this until we situate ourselves into our new home. Doesn't mean I can't window shop and start collecting up front though


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Treeman said:


> We can supply any thing that USA has in stock at a little lower price, we also keep all Air Wire products in stock. Would look forward to any help that we can be.


Thanks! I was actually looking your site over earlier!


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The NW2 is fine locomotive, but personally I would go for a GP9 or GP30/38 as they have very nice motors/gearboxes. You may appreciate that if your into switching cars at scale speeds etc...(plus more room for electronics and batteries)
If it's just going to run in circles, then the NW2 will work just as well.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Not to sound frugal but I'd like to start on the inexpensive side of things to gain experience. Messing up an inexpensive unit is much less damaging to the pride than screwing up a pricey one, not to sound anal-retentive...

Thinking ahead on what I want to ultimately achieve, I may not start out with a starter set at all as it seems like there would be wasted components that would wind up in a parts bin, never to see the light of day again. Having giant scale model airplanes as my primary interest, there are a lot of parts hanging around!!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Since you are still in the thinking stage... another option with options..
Very trust worthy;
https://www.gscalegraphics.net/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

Don't let the name fool ya, he gave his wife top billing. She started the graphics while Del is an Electrical engineer. Nice R/C and critter controls.


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I'd add my satisfaction with G Scale Graphics' RailBoss4 product. I have seven of them installed in various Bachmann engines and am more than satisfied (almost ecstatic). 

I have a reasonably clear vision that DCC is too much for my current and future needs and the RailBoss4 has all of the capability that I will ever use. Also, though barely needed, I am really satisfied with Del's support and responsiveness.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Seems to be a very nice and simple unit but, pardon my lack of knowledge, wouldn't these cut out a lot of options down the road as far as controls go? I don't mind spending _some_ coin on things here and there especially if it will allow me to expand down the road, it's just huge price tags up front are less attractive to the beginner (for example the Big Boy Loco just ain't ever gonna happen).


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Sure it does but my needs are rather simple. It does have options for sound, multi-unit operation and such. While it is always difficult to predict the future, I've been in model railroading since my teens and now retired and have seen lots of technology changes over the years. While these features are pretty amazing they are just not a facet of this hobby that interests me nor where I wish to spend my dollars. It is not that I'm some type of Luddite as my entire career was in information technology and that is surely one that continues to be in a constant state of flux.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

I looked into it a little bit more and it doesn't appear to be a drop in fit. Being a newbie, the simplest is the best to prevent further confusion so I think I will stick with AirWire for physical hardware but I appreciate the information. As for confusing programming language, I am no stranger to this, some of the things I do for work is definitely not straightforward!


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Depending on the manufacturer, engine and year of manufacture there may not be connections for a drop-in. Of my seven engines, only two of them had these connectors. I have purchased a number of these as "new old stock" from online sellers (eBay and such) so they were built before these connectors became relatively standard.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

2 loops? Why not leave them as track power? Most come that way.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

**** Habilis said:


> Depending on the manufacturer, engine and year of manufacture there may not be connections for a drop-in. Of my seven engines, only two of them had these connectors. I have purchased a number of these as "new old stock" from online sellers (eBay and such) so they were built before these connectors became relatively standard.


I could be mistaken here but AirWire appears to have a drop-in for the USA Trains NW2. According to documentation on the decoder, it just plugs into the loco.

http://www.cvpusa.com/doc_center/web_r0_NW2_Install_n_User_Gd.pdf



Totalwrecker said:


> 2 loops? Why not leave them as track power? Most come that way.


The thought was simple behind battery power: I don't have to maintain the track to keep good contacts, which will likely never get done once it's been laid out. I don't know the size just yet, but I tend to over-do everything


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Xpress;

Just beware of the Dark Side of large scale trains (live steam). Since you already do radio control, you are susceptible to it.









It took over twenty years in large scale before I gave in to the Dark Side, but it finally happened.

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

There is a couple of local live steam clubs around me that I visit on the occasion but my interest remains with smaller, more manageable toys since I can use them whenever I want. The live steam clubs meet only once a month and run for a handful of hours.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I recently bought a Ruby live steam loco kit for my G empire, she'll run anytime I wish. 
Live steam to run on 45mm track ranges from 1:32 to 1:13.7 (7/8thhs scale)
http://www.gardenrailwayclub.com/7-8ths-scale-1 
found on the net...


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Live steam is the main reason I got into large scale. Took awhile to afford that first engine but that gave me time to build a railway and so forth. Most garden railroaders mix the scales and have since the beginning. If it looks good to you, then all is well on your railway. Excellent running live steam can be had for much less than some new electric powered engines. Roundhouse's Sammie and the Accucraft Ruby(and its many varients) are excellent first engines. I also can highly recommend going with onboard battery power from the start. I went the track powered route for many years, but over time I got tired of cleaning track, and dealing with rail joints that decide to stop working. Granted this was after 10 years of the track being outside. But after making the change to battery power, I was like, why didn't I do this sooner? Battery power also plays better with live steam operations. I have a mix of LGB and Kalamazoo engines with onboard battery power, and 2 Bachmann Big Haulers waiting for thier turn to get batteries in their tenders. Live steam power is a LGB/Aster Frank S, Roundhouse Bertie and a very old Hyde Out Mountain 2 truck Shay. Whatever route you chose, make sure your having fun with it. Thats what its all about. Excellent shops out there that cater to this scale such as RLD Hobbies, The Train Department(Live Steam dealer), Zionsville Train Depot, Silver State Trains, Reindeer Pass and others. Mike the Aspie
Quick pic of my small raised railway


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Mike,

Please reduce the size of your images to 800 pixels wide.
Thank you,

-Ted


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Checked out the local model railroad consist, since it consists of 4 clubs  Lots of O, HO, and N scale but they only had a tiny G scale section that consisted of a couple of trolleys on an automated 'push button to go' circuit. Still on the hunt for an experienced local to show me some stuff in person.


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## greghile (Jun 10, 2008)

Tanner, you still haven't mentioned where in southern California you live. Someone here could no doubt put you in touch with the right people if we knew ...


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Sorry, I thought I mentioned it. I'm in the San Diego area.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Xpress said:


> Sorry, I thought I mentioned it. I'm in the San Diego area.


Go over to LSC and talk to Greg E. He's in that area.

And there are lots of folk at the Balboa Park Model Railroad Club, like this guy:
http://bluerailtrains.com/2016/07/01/user-showcase-steve-seidensticker/


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Pete Thornton said:


> Go over to LSC and talk to Greg E. He's in that area.
> 
> And there are lots of folk at the Balboa Park Model Railroad Club, like this guy:
> http://bluerailtrains.com/2016/07/01/user-showcase-steve-seidensticker/


I'm sorry but "LSC" doesn't seem to be ringing any bells.. (pun intended?)

Balboa Park is what I visited on Saturday, I chatted with a few of the guys in the various clubs but none of them seemed to know much about garden scales.


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## greghile (Jun 10, 2008)

LSC is another active forum at largescalecentral.com. You’ll find Greg E. there as well as a whole lot of other helpful people ...


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Large Scale Central - *LSC*


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

If you develop an interest in live steam, be aware that if narow gauge manufacturers do cater to all the narrow gauge scales running on gauge one track; but for standard gauge engines most models offered are to the exact 1/32 scale, smaller but more correct to the real scale to gauge ratio. Piko has reissued the ex MDC cars which are very close to 1/32 scale (their US prototype cars only the rest is very large scale, or narrow gauge). these can be used effectively behind MTH locos, I do it all the time.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Pete Thornton said:


> Go over to LSC and talk to Greg E. He's in that area.
> 
> And there are lots of folk at the Balboa Park Model Railroad Club, like this guy:
> http://bluerailtrains.com/2016/07/01/user-showcase-steve-seidensticker/



What a crazy suggestion to send a battery man to Mr. DCC .... nothing but grief ... from my experience being battery positive, meaning I use 'em.
Greg is very knowledgeable, but opinionated and ...
Greg is in Carlsbad in the north county.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Funny enough, I work about halfway between home and Carlsbad. Unless you mean Carlsbad, NM 

Mainly what I think I need to learn now is how to lay down track pieces, and how to build a solid foundation beneath them to keep them from shifting or moving much over time.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Another subject with many different opinions. Today the ladder method gets a lot of attention. Is it possible to drive PVC pipe into the ground in your location?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Here's a link to an article on building a ladder-style roadbed. I recently re-built one section of my railroad with this system, and it's proven stable--certainly an improvement over what I had been using. I am likely to re-do another section of my line this summer with this system, too.

Also, at the risk of tooting my own horn, here's a book I wrote on getting started in the hobby.

Later,

K


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

I can do basically whatever I want at my current home, but I thought I mentioned that I'll be moving out of state in short order. Right now I'm just gathering information- no sense in throwing something down only to have to pull it up in a years time..

Funny enough, I nearly purchased that booklet at the railroad museum, if it weren't for the fact that they didn't have any more copies left..


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## mendoFrank (May 2, 2015)

*Maybe battery power & RC*

Another neat approach would be the battery power and remote control setup. This way there is no need to clean tracks and wheels for electricity/ pickup. With the new(er) Li-Ion batteries, they ar extremely safe and dependable. Our club has converted everything we can. We still have many conventional locos, and on nice, dry days we spend the time cleaning. 
We keep our systems fairly simple, and that makes things easier. Check out our site, and then follow the Facebook link to see the videos. Almost everything you see is battery/ RC. It all fits in either the diesel loco, or in the tender of the steamers. Smoke units, sound cards, LEDs, speakers, it all fits.
As far as coupler compatibility, you will learn how easy it is to change couplers to the style you like best.
The main thing is “run what you like”.


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## Michael789 (Sep 3, 2016)

*If in San Diego...*

why not stop at the piko office/warehouse? They can probably get you a catalog for free??? 

Plenty of retail shops online, or in San Diego I think there is only one that sells G-Scale. (Could be wrong?) Reed's Hobby Shop is in the La Mesa area and actually has G in stock. (Though I don't know their prices as well, I have bargained for an older used item from them while in town.)


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

mendoFrank said:


> Another neat approach would be the battery power and remote control setup. This way there is no need to clean tracks and wheels for electricity/ pickup. With the new(er) Li-Ion batteries, they ar extremely safe and dependable. Our club has converted everything we can. We still have many conventional locos, and on nice, dry days we spend the time cleaning.
> We keep our systems fairly simple, and that makes things easier. Check out our site, and then follow the Facebook link to see the videos. Almost everything you see is battery/ RC. It all fits in either the diesel loco, or in the tender of the steamers. Smoke units, sound cards, LEDs, speakers, it all fits.
> As far as coupler compatibility, you will learn how easy it is to change couplers to the style you like best.
> The main thing is “run what you like”.


I am fairly dead-set on radio control battery operation as that is essentially 50% of my other hobby (airplanes). I'll check out your site, thanks! 



Michael789 said:


> why not stop at the piko office/warehouse? They can probably get you a catalog for free???
> 
> Plenty of retail shops online, or in San Diego I think there is only one that sells G-Scale. (Could be wrong?) Reed's Hobby Shop is in the La Mesa area and actually has G in stock. (Though I don't know their prices as well, I have bargained for an older used item from them while in town.)


Picked up a Piko catalog from Reeds just last weekend, they stock G scale (mostly Piko) but were shocked to hear USA Trains is still in operation.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

We deal with USA Trains on a daily basis. They are about the only game in town for a American diesel, that is not previously owned. There is a lot of used on the market due to the ageing of us still in the hobby.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB does make the F7, gang car, and Alco type diesels, but each in only 1 or 2 road names.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

The F units came in several road names, Santa Fe warbonnet and NYC lighting stripe were the first run, kind of like Lionel. They also did UP, SP Black Widow, New Haven, ATSF blue bonnet, PRR Tuscan, Clear/undec, B&O, old style Canadian Pacific, Great Northern Empire Builder and recently did the Rio Grande. The Alco is only correct for the White Pass, but back in the day they offered what became known as the "Queen Mary series" as they were introduced at the huge G scale show held on the Queen Mary ship in Long Beach. They put an EMD style long hood on the Alco cab/frame. Several road names were done from ATSF in both classic warbonnet to the later yellow/blue bonnet, SP bloody nose, Coke, Christmas ect. I think Depot G did a run of Black Widow on that foobie. While it might be a foobie, those 6 axle LGB diesels do pull well and can handle any curve radius right down to R1, same for the big F unit. They also did the Alco in CP Rail action red colors. And those F units are big, have nice "WOW Factor", espically in Santa Fe Warbonnet. They are nicely lighted with headlights, number boards and yellow LED class lights, the newest version in Rio Grand has a working Mars light. The older runs had the sound boards in the non powered B unit and the sound came from both the speaker in the B and the A unit attached to it. Ebay is your friend as well as the Facebook LGB sales and trades group if you want any of those engines.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

What LGB used to make in F7's years ago and what Marklin now makes is totally different.
The latest Marklin F7 units are different from the older versions and even the cables are different.
Now the F7A has the audio, and the B dummy is just a speaker. If buying one of these I would just go with 2 A units as both would have separate sound units.


So, used and older F7 road names can be found, but new production is what I stated in my first reply. On Ebay you can find the following F7 road names
SF passenger and freight
SP
NYC
New Haven
UP, penn
Canadian 

coke
Great Northern
And even the whimsical see thru's.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

There wasnt much road name selection from the new MLGB Dan, thats why I gave him the list of the older Lehmann built F7's. They are also cheaper on the wallet but you are correct, they will not mix and match sound wise with the new ones. But they all "should" run together in a consist, just not being able to be connected electricaly between the LGB(Lehmann built) and the new MLGB(Marklin built) versions. Personally, I prefer the older Lehmann built LGB trains Mike


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

All Marklins have dcc and will not run with the older LGB DCC F7 units!!!! And only DCC users can program the speed difference CV's of incompatible engines.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Hi all, just poking my head back in here for a minute. The annual NRHSA show occurred in Las Vegas the past few days and my company sent me out to exhibit. With the 2nd day of the show being relatively slow, and with a number of train exhibitors on site, I got the bug again. Stopped by the LHS today and picked up a Piko starter set, plus an additional car. It's not much, but it'll get me tinkering.


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## on30gn15 (May 23, 2009)

Xpress said:


> It's not much, but it'll get me tinkering.


You have been assimilated, resistance was futile.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Tanner;

That set is a very nice start. One thing concerns me; the outer edge of the ties are right at the edge of that table top. Things can topple, and I would hate to see you lose part of your investment due to a hasty trip to the floor. Little unnoticed objects can make trains derail (usually when you are not looking at them run). I try to give myself some room to allow the locomotive and cars to remain on the table, should they happen to "go on the ground."









Best wishes for your new set,
David Meashey


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Thanks. Yes, the table is barely big enough to fit the rails, I only put it up there to test it out.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Does that Piko set have DCC?

If so it is a easy job to add an AW converter for battery, RC control.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Treeman said:


> Does that Piko set have DCC?
> 
> If so it is a easy job to add an AW converter for battery, RC control.


It does not have DCC, but it is DCC ready with a plug in module available for it. Which, if I understand correctly, I just need an AW G3 X unit to wire into the loco and I can operate it remotely?

I also made my first purchase from Reindeer Pass. A USA Trains box car and some more track. Oh boy!!


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

You may want to try a complete decoder like WOW, Zimo. Then add the AW converter to get RC control with sound. The G3 is a very good receiver, decoder but has no sound. We often sell them with a Phoenix P8, but the cost goes up.


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## Xpress (Apr 25, 2018)

Got my rails in today, a test run was mandated to ensure they worked. Train car is taking a little bit longer than anticipated. Will definitely be expanding, and buying more from RP!


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