# trains receiving heavy use



## lcaldwell (Sep 24, 2020)

I recently took over the duty of maintaining a pretty large g scale train set up at a museum. The volunteer that was in charge of the exhibit has retired. Between 7 tracks there are several hundred feet of track. The trains run on average 50 hours a week, 6 to 7 days a week, year round. The track is all indoors. Most is in a small room behind glass. (I think the circulation in the room leaves something to be desired)
In the past the museum had a large collection of trains (LGB, Bachman, Piko), but overtime the collection has dwindled. The overwhelming majority are in a state of disrepair. 
I have several questions and welcome any and all advice that seems pertinent. 
a) As we are about to invest in some new engines, I'm wondering if anyone has any recommendations, considering our set up and the amount we are running them. Any replacement parts I should preemptively buy?
b) What sort of general maintenance should we be doing and on what sort of schedule? Other forums I've read mention maintenance schedules that are just unrealistic for the amount of labor the museum is will to spend on the trains. Another consideration is that they've accepted that this is pretty heavy use and the trains need to be replaced/repaired somewhat regularly. (how regularly??)

Thanks,
L


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

I am assuming track power here. If so, keeping the track clean is paramount. Might want to look into the Piko 'Clean Machine,' a battery powered loco that polishes the rails after a few passes.

Unless you have the great good fortune to latch onto a 'Barry's Big Trains' version, I'd stay away from the Bachmann 4-6-0 locomotives - front trucks tend to derail and there are power train issues. For that matter, I'd suggest avoiding locomotives with pilot trucks in the first place.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Unless you have the great good fortune to latch onto a 'Barry's Big Trains' version, I'd stay away from the Bachmann 4-6-0 locomotives - front trucks tend to derail and there are power train issues. For that matter, I'd suggest avoiding locomotives with pilot trucks in the first place.


That's a bit of a sweeping statement. The Gen 5 and Anniversary 4-6-0s are quite reliable, I'm told. There are simple fixes for the pilot truck to make it more flexible. They are very inexpensive to buy - Goodwill had a few sets on their auction website for less than $50. And you can stockpile a spare chassis or two from Bachmann Parts.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> b) What sort of general maintenance should we be doing and on what sort of schedule? Other forums I've read mention maintenance schedules that are just unrealistic for the amount of labor the museum is will to spend on the trains. Another consideration is that they've accepted that this is pretty heavy use and the trains need to be replaced/repaired somewhat regularly. (how regularly??)


I know you've already had suggestions that only LGB will do, so I won't touch your (a).
I was a docent at the B&O Museum for many years, where they had a very large HO layout. Being a model railroader, that was my favorite spot to educate the public (at least until they built a garden RR.)

The guys who maintained the HO RR had a small workshop with a few tools set up for maintenance. A padded shelf for rolling locomotives over to get at the underside. Oil of course. And a wire brush for cleaning the wheels - in HO that was also providing power to the wheels to spin them. Something similar for large scale would be useful.

I would suggest annual oiling of every moving part and wheel cleaning at a minimum, or earlier if they squeak or slow down. Good record keeping is essential so you know the history of each locomotive and train. If you can get at the motor bearings, then oil them sparingly too.

As far as replacement - wait until they grind to a halt!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Agree with all Pete has said.... normally in this hobby, blanket statements are wrong (ha ha, that means I am wrong!!)


Greg


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## rntfrmme (May 23, 2013)

I maintain G Scale trains at 5 popular restaurants here in Las Vegas. These trains run 9 hours a day, seven days a week. A lifetime of use each month if you think about how most run their trains. We run metal wheels, usually four car trains and mostly USA trains diesels. Typically, NW2's, GP-38's and GP9's. These diesels last on average around 60-90 days before needing one or two new axles. Around the second or third axle change we find that the motors start failing so we change out the whole motor block. We do run one LGB six axle diesel. It is fairly reliable but parts are expensive and take time to get.

All trains are changed out monthly and locos are lubed regularly. At one time we ran Pico steam locos. They were very labor intensive and didn't hold up under constant use. Surprisingly, metal wheels are usually worn out after 4-5 months of run time. Flanges become sharp as a razor blade if not monitored for wear.

My opinion on cleaning track will generate A LOT of responses, i'm sure. We never clean track. Period!! With the use these trains get, we never have dirty track problems. Neither brass nor nickle silver ever seem to get dirty. This is near the ceiling in a breakfast-lunch restaurant. Surprised? My partner and I were too. 

We have been doing this for well over two years now and this is real life experience, not "well i have heard from others". Our biggest issue is a crossover at one store that will short out occasionally due to metal debris from constant use. About every six or eight months we pull it out completely disassemble and then reinstall. The first time it took a while to figure out the cause of the short.

I can talk for hours about weird issues and trouble shooting but wont bore you any longer. Hopefully, This helps a little.

Bill, AKA rntfrmme


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

When the USAT axles need replacing, what is wrong? worn gears? split gear casting, worn wheels? Just curious.


Your opinion on cleaning of course makes sense, with the virtually constant motion, no time to oxidize, and I suspect you have kept the skates on the USAT diesels, right?


When you say "crossover", you mean a "diamond" or "crossing" correct? 



Thanks for the feedback, it's real life experience.


Greg


p.s. I would love to hear about weird issues and trouble shooting. If you don't want to post, just email me, always ready to learn new stuff.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Here in New England it is the acid rain and constant watering that does the damage to outdoor track. Winter does not bother my track, I can run November to April with no cleaning issues on my brass track outdoors. Indoors I clean once every 5 to 6 years.


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## rntfrmme (May 23, 2013)

@Greg: 

Mostly worn drive wheels, we run at a moderate speed, some would say slow. The flanges wear to almost a knife edge with 10 foot diameter curves. Yes, we also see split axles and worn plastic gears on occasion. The current axles from Charlie Ro are much better and don't seem to split like the earlier ones did. Freight cars will also wear the flanges down to a knife edge over time. Sometimes we will find grooves in the tread of the wheel making it look like a freight car has lost a traction tire.....lol 

We leave the skates on. The more pickups the better. Jerky trains cause service calls from derailments. Its amazing how few people know how to rerail a train.

You are right, when I said crossover I really meant a 90 degree crossing. The brass dust (literally dust from the track and wheels) will build up to the point where it begins to conduct across the rails. At very low power, it was fine. Turn it up to around 8 volts and the breaker would trip. Took a bit, about half an hour on 200 ft of track to figure it out. ;-)

One interesting problem we found that most will never see or experience. Inside USA trains motor blocks is a bare wire that assists in conducting current between the axles and skates. Over time the axle wears through the wire and it will pop up. We replace them with a thin piano wire, I think it is .020, and cut it too length to fit. Minor issue, but it will cause pickup problems.

rntfrmme.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks, one thing most people do not know is all the routes for power pickup.


Most have the skates and the pickups at the axle tips, but some of the 2 axle blocks have that extra wire wiper inside that picks up from the axle internally.


Interesting that you have that wire wear through... I have never had this happen, but most people do not fully lubricate the axles, not just for the brass bearings but just for this case. 



I have used the hob-e-lube heavy gear oil on these axles, and of course inside where this wiper is. There's almost no way to get this area lubricated without removing the motor block cover.


I do often find these burned, since a derailment that runs a short through the motor block can often overheat this wire, since the point of contact is so small, that concentration of current will "burn" the wire right at the axle, and it will bend/break.. the giveaway is the wire is discolored at that point from the short/excessive current.


Also interesting is that you seem to imply that if this wire has failed you have pickup issues. Have you swapped out the traction-tired wheels for "solid" ones to get better power pickup? I have done this and I can easily do without skates now (for appearance purposes, and fewer hangups on turnouts).


Thanks for the information, nice to hear from someone who has really run these hard.


Greg


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## rntfrmme (May 23, 2013)

I didn't mean to imply that we have pickup issues if the wire fails. We just believe that by replacing it, it will help with electrical pick up and help the engines run smoother. Six points of pickup per side is obviously better than two and most certainly doesn't hurt.

As far as replacing the traction tires, that is a mixed blessing. We have done it both ways. One location has tighter curves and the GP9s will slip going through the corners without traction tires and four or five cars limiting the length of the trains. The locos are very light and it does cause issues. We are reluctant to add weight due to added wear on the motor blocks, but then again it may be negligible and actually run better. I' m thinking along the lines of adding 12 ounces or so.....not a lot, but enough to probably help.

The owner likes long trains (as we all do) but three to four cars is a good trade off for longevity and reliability. It was surprising how the drag of one extra car can shorten the life and increase maintenance. We run a combination of Delton, LGB, Aristo, and USA trains railcars. We also run exclusively hook and loop couplers for reliability. He trades me kadees off his used cars for the hook and loops. I install the hook and loops for free because at home I like the kadees.  It annoys me that people use the offset kadees and truck mount them, just a pet peeve of mine.

rntfrmme


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I mount Kadee offsets on the trucks as I like to keep the cars original for a possible sale in case I find something I like better and do not need the present car.  I keep the boxes also.
But when I do the hartland mini kits, I do body mount the kadees as these I will keep forever. For fun I use the Sumpter Valley mallet to pull 30 of these cars!!.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for clarifying, we both agree the extra power pickups help. 



I hear you on the traction tires... I've given it thought, and if it was practical, I would put ball bearings on the axles and then increase the weight, that would do it.


I am loathe to add weight to the overly-light USAT locos because of the plain bearings.


Since axles are readily available, I am considering weighting down a few locos, but I normally run them in consists, so I have adequate pulling power without adding weight, and have swapped out all traction tires, which has cut down on split axles, allow wheel slippage when the load is too high.


I am all body mounted, yes the truck mounts are bad for many reasons.


While costly, have you considered running ball bearing wheelsets in the rolling stock, I would think you could double your train length, I assume no grades in the layout.


Greg


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## rntfrmme (May 23, 2013)

Ball bearing wheels were never really a consideration due to cost and the need for occasional replacement as the flanges wear. I did find some that were reasonably priced but the bearings were rough and didn't roll any better then regular metal wheels. I was told by the seller that i experienced was normal and they were fine. As a 15 year maintenance mechanic in power plants I knew better so never really pursued that option. Bearings should always spin smooth with little to no drag. High quality (ie: expensive) ball bearing wheelsets roll extremely smooth and friction free, I agree.

Rntfrmme (Bill)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm chuckling as I read that... "rough" ball bearings are fine? Like "orange peel" on a car paint job?


I just bought $450 worth of Train-Li BB wheelsets, I have the new USAT streamliners and the friction is way over the top with the carbon brush pickups.


Again, thanks for sharing your experience.


Greg


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