# looking for functions



## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I am looking for a fuction decoder that goes above f-12

I don't think there is one but thought I would ask .....


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

ZIMO support 20 functions. So if you are tight for application space I move the sound function on the functions that don't have any physical output requirement that leaves me with all the physical functions. In addition to function outputs you can also assign 4 SERVO outputs to the function keys as well. Sounds like you are having a more challenging project.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Be interested to know the application. If you are talking function only decoders, I think you are right. But doing what Axel says (on most decoders) would free up a number of function outputs. 

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

it is a Bachmann k-27 that I has phoenix sound and airwire with battery

the airwire has 19 fuctions and phoenix sound has a lot of sounds but only goes to f-12 

I am tring to run the markers and smoke and cab light without giving up a bunch of sounds 

but all of the fuction decoders I find only go up to f-12 even looked at the zimo mx680 

or am I missing something


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

well, you could use another function decoder at a second address, not pretty, but it would work. 

Reading the manual, I'm a little confused... I see that you can map things to function buttons 1-12 in the G2, but it seems there are only 2 function outputs. 

Can you point me to where there are actually 19 different functions that can be mapped to the function buttons? 

I looked at the user manual, it only references function outputs A and B... so maybe you can tie some of the configuration stuff to them? 

Thanks, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

no you miss understand 

the controler will put the dcc data out for 19 fuctions but you have to add a decoder to the reciver to use them the drawback is all of the decoders stop at f12

I was thinking of adding a fuction only in the boller to run the leds and just run the two leads form the reciver with the dcc out 

on the reciverr I have used the two outputs for headlight and taillight and high curent to run the smoke on f6 but I need more outputs and they need to be up higher like f13 to 19 

right now I have 
f0 lights 
f1 bell
f2 whistle
f3 generator
f4 air pump
f5 brake
f6 smoke chuff markerlights and cab light 
f7 vol up
f8 vol down
f9 station anounce
f10 shutdown
f11 coal shovel
f12 blowdown


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yep, a relatively thorough search yields no function decoders over F12. MRC is one of the few sound systems that uses up to F28. 

If you can find a function decoder that lets you program the lighting functions based on whether is is moving or not (some allow you to do this), then maybe you can "double up" functions, i.e. F5 for example could have your brake sound, and also a function output that only operates when the loco is standing... so when moving, F5 would do the brakes, and stopped it would do a light output. 

I hope you follow where I am going with this, have not investigated it deeply but think you might be able to do it with the right combination of decoders, not necessarily the Phoenix... but other decoders "understand" the "state of motion".. 

That, and my previous suggestion are the best I cam come up with right now. 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I am looking for a fuction decoder that goes above f-12 

I don't think there is one but thought I would ask ..... 

Scott the Massoth 8FL function decoder can map it's functions from F1-F16, which should work fine for you. You can read the manual online from the download center on the Massoth website. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I am reading the manual, it looks like the "switch function with light"? 

So for example CV51 = 16 means turn first function on and off with F16? 

This is pretty cool, how much are these? Looks like $50 each. 

Well, a pretty unique product, the only one I have seen so far that can give you function outputs controllable over F12... 

Thanks for the tip Keith! 

Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

yes A bit up there in price but it is just what I was looking for 

bigest drawback I see is that they do not have them on hand here in the US 

may have to wrap this loco up with just the 12 fuctions and order out a 8fl for down the road 


thanks


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott, what makes you think they don't have them in stock in the US? Did you contact Klaus directly at Massoth--give him a call because I'd be surprised if they didn't have them in stock. Shourtline might also have them in stock. I really like the 8FL, especially the servo control. 

Keith


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

just going buy what the web site said 

was going to call today but never got the time but it is now at the top of my todo list


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

The better solution for the future is the use of an MX690V which delivers sound and DCC in one great package. The library has an excellent K27 sound done by one of the real enthusiasts, and you can put sounds all on higher functions which leaves you all function outputs for physical functions. At $199 MSRP beats and Phoenix, +, +++ solution.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I like the 690V, that is my decoder for "problem" locos as well. Of course maybe Axel will tell me the price on a 690VEX (with the 10 watt amp!!) 

But in this case, since Scott is running Airwire, I think it would be a waste to add a full function decoder to the already existing Airwire decoder. 

(It does give rise to what it would take to interface the Zimo to the Airwire receiver, but at $114 for the receiver, again things don't really add up well) 

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

ok i got a massoth emotion 8 fl decoder 

hooked it up with a test light on f1 thru f4 and the controler turned the lights on and off 

so I moved the decoder to the zepher I have on the bench to work on programing 

and again tested the lights All good

tryed to then program the decoder to move the fuctions and though I can read back the number I entered ( so it took the programing) it did not change what fuction key works the light 

ie I was trying to make the f2 fuction work insted with f6 so I changed cv56 from 2 to 6 and nada it still works with 2 and not with 6 

any ideas or did I spend big money for nothing becouse you must have massoth to program it ?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So function outputs F1-F4 are what you are checking. 

They are tied by default to functions 1-4. 

Did you notice where a minimum load of 60 milliamps needs to be connected to either F1 output or F2 outputs to successfully confirm programming? Might be worth hooking up LEDs here just to see the confirmation. 

I'd use POM since their "register programming" mode might not be standard, and it might be confusing if you have never done it with cv's 5 and 6. 

OK, reading the manual, looks like registers 51, 52, 54, 56 related to programming outputs 1-4 

So register 56 should control what happens with output 4. Looks like you were talking about output 2 and 6... 

So I would suggest a full decoder reset (CV7 = 77) 

Then check that function 4 controls output 4. 

Then I would set CV56 to something OTHER than one already assigned, like function 9 or above (assuming worst case that functions 1 through 8 are ALREADY assigned to outputs 1 through 8), i.e. CV56 = 9. 

This is how I would start. 

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

ops mode programing helped to a point 

I was able to move a2 output to f6 and a1 output to f0 fwd 

but a3 and a4 outputs will not work above f12 when hooked to airwire ( cannot test with the zephyr becouse it does not go above f12)

also in ops mode programing cv113 will not take ... when I read it back it is still 3 I am trying to make it 13 or 14 

also I am not sure if anyone has used an airwire above f12 

I say this becouse when you talk to him he only hooks up f1 f2 f3 on his installs and says that he knows of no decoder above f 12


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

hmm... 

you don't state this explicitly, but you imply that you got an output to work at f12. 

I guess I would first verify that the decoder is functioning well.. you don't have a buddy with an NCE or other system that works above f12? 

Kind of difficult if you don't know for sure the Airwire system works over f12. 

If you get stuck, you could stick the thing in an envelope and I'll check it out on my NCE system and program it up (if it programs)... looks like register programming for the higher CVs... 

Man, what a pain huh? 

Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I am going to take it to work tomarrow and check it out on the new zephyr as it goes to f28 mine is just old 

and yes I got a3 to work on f12 with the zephyr and airwire 

a4 output is cv113 and I have not had it work on anything except defalt f4


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

set up my laptop and pr3 with jmri 

to my suprise 8 fl was listed and that showed i did get cv 113 set 

so I will test at work and let you know


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I see my mistake on the CVs... oops 

so the CVs are sort of out of order... 

51 = output 7 
52 = output 8 
54 = output 1 
56 = output 2 
113 = output 3 
115 = output 4 
117 = output 5 
119 = output 6 

looking at the reset command, outputs 1 though 8 respond to F1 though F8 

strange also that F7 & F8 seem to be allocated as front and rear light, but they are also the 2 outputs chosen to operate servos. 

someone was standing on his head when he figured out the cv allocation. 

My guess is your system did not like the higher CV numbers, strange, should have been good up to 127 you would think. 

Well, will be interested to see if the system at the store has no problem programming. 

Regards, Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

The ESU LokSound Select will allow 29 wires/sound functions to be mapped to 21 function buttons.... however, it won't work in your case because it NEEDS to drive a motor for the sound to work properly. 

I am assuming that other decoders can do the same. To actually see what individual decoders can do, try using JMRI and selecting an arbitrary decoder and look at the function tab in Service or Operations mode programming. There will be a matrix there that shows what outputs/sounds can be mapped to what function buttons. 

The definitions of the decoders were written by volunteers, not the decoder manufacturer, so they follow the published documentation which MIGHT not be the same as the decoders actually work. To discover that, you have to cut and try.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

decoder worked fine at work with new zephyr


but airwire does not go above f12 it does not have the data for it 

not sure why cvp did not tell me when I talked to him the first time 


so even if you put a decoder in that goes higher alls you have is up to f12 


this has been a grand waste of time and money 

not sure what I am am going to do now


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe dumb question, but if you are using AW decoder, what happens if you use the NCE Gardenwire cab? It should be able to transmit up to F28 and I would think the AW decoder would pass this through. 

I looked back, did not see the specific models of what you are using, maybe I missed a gotcha. 


Greg


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