# Misc thoughts on track laying



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought I'd start a thread on ideas , hows whys of track laying.

I have always used concrete roadbed because:
1 Moles
2 worms
3 heaving of others types.
4 walking on
5 termites
6 because I had the tools.

But I have changed methods of laying track over the years.
when I come home from work in Aug and find this









then there s problem.
where you live and how much work you want to go through determans how you do it.

I like straight, level (level meaning flowing track) on my RR.

so to acomplish that I have to seek out what works in my area.
in the old days my straight aways was around 15 to 20 ft, now they are 60 to 70 ft runs.

I used to run 7 to 10 pound locos and now run (or have run) 25 to 45 pd locos.

Larger switches take more room.

Like most of you I work with in the area I started with.

For many of you seeking the "best " way. its up to you to find what works "best " for you.
My brain hurts so off to bed.

BTY 
OUR SON BEN COZAD ARRIVED TODAY IN iRAC,, ARMY RES.
Hes in transportation Div and drives one of those 12 ft wide semis that hauls M1 tanks.
Hes very proud of it.









I thought I would share this because you ALL are my friends.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Marty... I am not a priest. 

looks like you are about to hit a curve.










gg 



PS: just saw the photo... I retract all comments and beg forgiveness. ...


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Thank Ben for his service, he is appreciated, and wishes for a good tour and return home.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

My track is constantly moving (floating in the ballast) because of the temperature swings here in the Arizona high desert. When it does start to wiggle, I just tap it back into "straight" with a broom handle. 

Concrete roadbed would be super but I can't physically handle it anymore and the union boss for Marty's Elves won't let them leave the southeast corner of Lower Nebraska.

Ben looks great, Marty. Send him our thanks as well.

We're praying for him....


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I know you love your concrete, Marty, but I'm sold on ladder support. The first section I put in two years ago and it has held up perfectly. Its needed ballast added where it had settled underneath but no problems beyond that. Same with the new 7/8s scale layout. It has over wintered great. 
The ladder system is relatively lightweight, strong, flexible, adaptable, and doesn't require any special tools. It does add the cost of about a buck a foot to laying track but its a lot easier on the back. I have done enough flat and masonry work to know I'm not crazy about it. 

-Brian


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty,

Please thank Ben for his service to our country. We here at the Armitstead house wish him a safe deployment and a safe return home. God Bless him.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I love concrete too









I am on my third mixer 

Wore two out. 

Tell Ben I said Hi.


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Marty thanks for any and all concrete tips ^^ Tell Ben thanks from all us folks back home and we wish him a safe tour of duty. Also tell Wil hi from Will, though he doesn't know who I am ;-P 

-Will


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I use concrete and battens, but in different sections. They all work equally well.


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## Joe Mascitti (Oct 30, 2008)

Thank you Ben for your service to our country. May the lord keep you safe.

BTW...I like concrete as well...


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Many heart felt thanks to Ben. Stay safe and come home when they let you. Many thanks to You too Marty. You venture where some of us have yet to tread and publicly document your thoughts and processes along the way. Right or wrong you help us all figure it out eventually. 

Chas


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Our thanks and prayersto Ben .


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

It's great to hear all the ideas. Some work some don't thats the fun of the hobby, the challenge. Ben thanks for you support to our country. May you stay dafe. Know Pops is proud. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

When I'm learning to do something, I try to find someone who does it well and imitate them. Cozad does it very well. 

A fine son.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, I'd have to agree that a firm, level roadbed is one of the most important aspects of trouble free running. The problem I have with concrete is it seems too permanent. But I believe that is because my layout is small. I recently took up my layout to rework it. If I had put down concrete it would have been a lot more work. The ladder system is going in pretty quick and easier to remove or move than concrete. However, in the case of large layouts that have room for expanding or being reworked without taking up existing rails, or even a smaller layout that you sure won't ever move, I think concrete would be great. 

So bottom line is, I think you are right, different situations warrant different solutions. 

My first layout I screwed the ties down. I didn't have much trouble with rail expansion, except in one section where the sun hit the rail early and hard all day with the adjoining sections being in the shade most of the day. This time I'm going to try free floating the track on the roadbed and see how it goes. If I find it moving too much I may screw some sections down. 

The switches (#6s') I put in at first caused me some problems, but I tweaked them to work exceptionally well. I learned a few things, like make sure they work really good before you put them in. Also, don't have a curve coming into the switch, it caused me a lot of grief with some locos and rolling stock. My new layout has at least as long a straight section as the longest car before hitting the points of the switch. And if you can have the direction of the train running primarily so that it comes in through one of the tops of the switch 'Y', thus not relying so much on the point to do the switching, they work better  

Oh, and speaking of problems, the other was the S curve. Worked great until I had some long cars go through them, derailing every time. I found anything less than a 20' diameter S requires a straight section in the middle. 

Again, different situations warrant different solutions. Someone running shorter locos and rolling stock, or slower trains could probably handle a curve coming into a switch or a smaller diameter S curve without a straight section in the middle. 

For running track power I can't say enough good things about good clamps, much better than the joiners that typically come with track. 

I owe a lot of what I learned to folks here on MLS. 

I'm glad Ben is proud of what he is doing. Thanks for posting his picture. He should be proud that he is serving his country and making the world a better place. My thanks to him.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim 
good point, but the words "seems too perment" is just that seems. i have cut ,lifted and moved it around. If you see my gold file on photos this RR has changed more than most GRRs ever do in the same spot. 
Thats why i started this thread to share ideas but let folks know, they themselves need to know whats best for them. 
There is no "right way". its whats reasonable for you.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Having been reading about laying and the issues encountered with railroad track, in the various places on the net, I am grateful that living in a temperate climate little occurs to my track to cause me loss of sleep.







The only issue is scattering of small amounts of ballast by my dogs when they chase off herring gulls.









I take it your son is in the Middle East now Marty? May he be safe, and like many on here and elsewhere, I wish him a safe return.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to go with Brian on this one, ladder is the only way. Concrete is for the young guys!


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 04/14/2009 5:07 PM
I have to go with Brian on this one, ladder is the only way. Concrete is for the young guys! 


Don.... The older we get even the ladder is struggle. I need one ( a ladder) to get up when I work in the track.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I prefer to forgo the latter's at my age. As this can be dangerous to ones health. RJD


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, tell Ben I'm proud of him for serving his country. I was a Transportation guy in Nam, so I know what he's facing.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I agree. I move concrete as well


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 04/13/2009 7:44 PM
I thought I'd start a thread on ideas , hows whys of track laying.

I have always used concrete roadbed because:
1 Moles
2 worms
3 heaving of others types.
4 walking on
5 termites
6 because I had the tools.

But I have changed methods of laying track over the years.
when I come home from work in Aug and find this









then there s problem.
where you live and how much work you want to go through determans how you do it.

I like straight, level (level meaning flowing track) on my RR.

so to acomplish that I have to seek out what works in my area.
in the old days my straight aways was around 15 to 20 ft, now they are 60 to 70 ft runs.

I used to run 7 to 10 pound locos and now run (or have run) 25 to 45 pd locos.

Larger switches take more room.

Like most of you I work with in the area I started with.

For many of you seeking the "best " way. its up to you to find what works "best " for you.
My brain hurts so off to bed.
That track problem looks familiar. It happens up here too--big time. I have so far shied away from using concrete because of the nature of the ground here, but once I start my Phase III (on the ground) project, I will probably give it a try. Thanks for your observations. 
Posted By NTCGRR on 04/13/2009 7:44 PM

BTY 
OUR SON BEN COZAD ARRIVED TODAY IN iRAC,, ARMY RES.
Hes in transportation Div and drives one of those 12 ft wide semis that hauls M1 tanks.
Hes very proud of it.









I thought I would share this because you ALL are my friends.



I see that the American spirit is alive and well in your son. We ALL owe him and the many others in the military service our undying gratitude.


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Misc thoughts on laying track huh?

Well first off we also have the moles, and squirrels and birds and weeds and branches falling from the trees and........well the mole issue I think we took care of fairly well. As I explained to Marty while I was there, we went back and trenched each side ot the road bed. This made the track look mor like a mainline in grade but I called it a main narrow line 'cause it's not the same layout we once had or I wanted. I also installed hardware cloth in the ground to keep burrowing creaturs out from under the track.....or at least so deep they wouldn't disturb the track. Walking in the track is not possible but it's easy enough to move aroung things without being tempted to step on the track 

We don't have to deal with frost heave in the way that most of you in the North do but we do get a certain amount of movement. This year we had a freeze to 4 inches but it only lasted for a week or two. I think that the most durable road bed would be the one Marty uses and since he has the materials and abilities (more physicaly) it works best for him in his area. I once said we were toying with the concrete bed but that changed and I have to say I'm happy. Ladder bed could always be used but we have so much dirt and other resources available to us for free (ie dirt, old actual railroad ballast and even more dirt.....) bulding things up to create hills and such is not an issue. Then again one wold need more track to expand but I don't see any new track in my future. Heck I can't even get that dang RH #6 that I nbeed to complete the latest phase of the project. Doohhh!!!!

The floating bed has always been out bed of choice even when we lived in Western New York. Ot does take a bit extra maintenance on a per run basis but it's actually easy. Just sweep and resettle in some cases, reballast in others. A fa cry easier to me than lugging, mixing and pouring the concrete in addition to the rebar and other things needed to pour concrete properly. I'm sure that may don't but my personality would make me and if any of you rememebr the tunnel I built on the last layout......you understand. Anyhow trenching os no issue in the sandy loam we have but sometimes that is a big challeneg for me as well.

I think that if I had the ability to do it all over again I would have just removed everything and raised the bed so I can have an easier time of it as my back issuse progress. Someday I won't be able to, even on a good day which are few and far between even now, do anything at ground level. But that is just the way it is and now things have progressed too far to redo things I just have to hope that I get my staging table built to avoid not being able to use the layout at all. At least all it takes is a broom to make the bed look good so that can be done regardless of things by even Martha. 


About Ben.....you know where I stand since we talked. I would add that when he does come back to the States and if he finds himself at Ft Lee........make sure he looks us up. Plus you'll have a helluva good reason to get to the area so consider our home open to you and Carrie. We're only 4 miles from Post. Lord knows you've opened yours up to us (and a coup,e hundred other folks) more than a couple times!!!!!


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Wow, things don't change much. I looked at the photo of your son again and notice the bunk bed. Same looking folds and wool blanket they were using 35 years ago. Congrats. I know you're a proud dad.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

You Know I was thinking I should have made my layout a raised bed. But I don't want to start all over from the begining. Mybe I will take my backhoe and dig a trench all the way around the outer track


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