# 2008 Diamondhead Drawbar Pull Results



## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

*Diamondhead 2008 Drawbar Pull Results*
* *
There were seventeen entries in the annual Drawbar Pulling competition at the 2008 International Small Scale Steamup.
 
The results in each category are as follows:
 
*One Axle*
Sonny Wizelman          Rail Truck                   9.3 oz
John Riley                     Rail Truck                   6.3 oz
 
*Two Axle*
Dave Hottmann           Super Ruby               50.6 oz
Ed Johnson                 Accucraft Edrig         45.7 oz
Bill Boyle                      Regner Willi              42.8 oz
Larry Newman            Ruby-Mason             26.6 oz
Carl Weaver                Tram Loco                 24.9 oz
Dan Tilden                   Ruby                          14.8 oz
 
*Three Axle*
Doug Whithaus           Roundhouse Fowler   33.2 oz
 
*Four Axle*
Bob Pope                   P-1 Diesel               103.7 oz
Richard Jacobs        Accu 3cyl Shay          88.4 oz
Bill Payne                   Aster Climax             60.8 oz
Mitch Mitchell            Accucraft C-16           50.8 oz
 
*Five Axle*
Charlie Mynhier          0-10-0 Switcher        72.1 oz
 
*Six & Eight Axle*
John Garrett               Accucraft 4t Shay     108.6 oz
John Garrett               Accucraft Garratt        80.5 oz
Paul Latour                Accu Cab Forward     74.9 oz
 
Hopefully next year more entries will be presented.

The O gauge switcher had the unbelieveable pulling power of over 50% efficiency - power to weight ratio!
Prototype engines are considered good if they are over 30%.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for putting on a first class event Bruce! We all had a great time. 

Bob


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Not to be dense, but what is a Accucraft 4t Shay?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave
Here is the photo built by Ol' Fart


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Bob better savor his 4-axle victory with the Diesel while he can because Black Magic is itching to drag him around the track and show him what Made in USA steam can do!


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

Can't find a picture of it at the moment, but I do have a video that I took.  The loco is currently owned by John Garrett.
  The file is 4.6M, so make sure you have hi speed unless you want to wait a long time.
Larry's 4 Truck


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ed, 

Your Black Magic is a gorgeous locomotive - I'm honored that you would challenge my poor little Diesel Passenger Streamliner! 

But I'm afraid your beauty queen might go for a backwards spin herself behind some Made in USA Diesel! 

To be serious for a moment, you are a true craftsman and I look forward to meeting you and seeing the Black Magic in person. 

Of course I might have some new trucks with larger motors on the diesel by next year, and lower gearing, and more throttle throw, and some additional weight..... And then there's that Diesel freight locomotive I plan to build (but that will be in the 12-axle category). 

Bob


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Fred
The photo is as referenced in prior post per this thread thanks to John' coverage of DH 08

Posted By Charles on 01/22/2008 3:23 PM
Dave
Here is the photo built by Ol' Fart


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles,
  Here is the message I get when I try to follow your link.

Your client does not have permission to get URL /s912 from this server.


Can't see any picture from your link, but will post it here.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Some info on Ed's build;
http://thms.tedatum.com/BBoard/Hume01.html

Very nice work, Looks *HEAVY/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif*


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Bob,

You better work on those mods for your diesel because we are not standing still either.  Climax #3 will be blowing steam at 74# with 4 power strokes per rev cranked down an all stainless steel power train with 2.25:1 gearing to show you what for, yes sir!









Best regards,
Ed


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed, 

Very impressive! How much does it weigh? 

The overall title is what interests me - this is currently being traded between diesel and steam. 

In 2007 Diesel barely won: 
One Axle 
Neshkin Woods Loco 14.8oz 
McHale Wood Thing 2 Disqualified in Tech Inspection â€" Too Wide 

Two Axle 
Martocci Sammie 3lb 1.7oz 
Joslyn Willi 3lb 0.5oz 
Simpson Edrig 2lb 15.6oz 
Bailey Cedrig 2lb 8.7oz 
Sheehan Bettyâ€™s Willi 2lb 8.0oz 
Jacobs Forney 2lb 2.9oz 
Riley Lumber Jack 1lb 4.1oz 
Simpson Cricket 1lb 3.2oz 
Weidner Billie 1lb 10.8oz 

Three Axle 
Coghran Cheddar 3lb 11.8oz 
Pope Fowler 15.8oz 

Four Axle 
Bednarik, R Daylight 4lb 12.8oz 
Quirk, P Aster 141 1lb 8.0oz 

Six Axle 
Barker Garratt 6lb 1.2oz 

Shays 
Sortino Accucraft 3 Cyl. 6lb 2.4oz 
Garrett Class D 4lb 15.5oz 

Diesel 
Pope P-1 Homebuilt 6lb 6.2oz 

In 2008 the title went back to steam with a win by John Garrett. 

So who will win in 2009, Steam or Diesel? You seem to have some tricks up your sleeve. No telling what John Garrett's shay will pull with some more weight in the water tank. Charlie Mynhier's switcher pulled half it's weight. Accucraft has the new K-36. And I'll have a freight Diesel with 3-axle trucks and an alternator instead of a generator for next year. I think the days of an overall win in the 6-pound range are over! 

2009 should be an interesting year for the drawbar competition. 

Bob


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce,
Thanks for the fun time....


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Carl,

Glad you had a fun time, even though I didn't have a special "Tram" class just for you.  If your loco had been an internal combustion prototype it would have fit in the "Truck" catagory and wiped out the competition!


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ed, 

The new trucks with larger (550 size) motors for the Diesel should be here next week! 

I hope things are going well with Climax #3 - that is going to be one beautiful locomotive. 

Bob


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anyone know the all time record for the draw bar contest? 

We need to get one of these draw bar contests at Cabin Fever!! Sounds like fun.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

To Bob Pope and all past winners,

There will be a new rule added to the competition next year if Jerry sees fit to adopt it.  The rule is that any locomotive that has won a past competition cannot compete again.  This will keep things fresh and keep the the walls from filling up with certificates and trophies for the same locomotive!  Any locomotive is welcome to pull, to compare past results, but past winners will not be considered for the trophies awarded.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

David Rose asked,
_"Does anyone know the all time record for the draw bar contest? 
We need to get one of these draw bar contests at Cabin Fever!! Sounds like fun."_

My records show that John Coghran (somewhere in his eighties?) has the record for the heaviest pull on record.  It was in the "One Finger" class.  Using the index finger he pulled 8 lbs. 4.6 oz (132.6 oz).  This was a special class instituted due to a lack of locomotive entries in 2007.  The 4t "Herget" Shay of John Garrett appears to be the strongest in recent recorded history at 108.6 oz.  The Shay design is fittingly a good one for this static pull.  If someone could come up with some form of dynamic pull device it would probably be a different story.

You could do this at the Cabin Fever show by using the article from _Steam in the Garden_ to construct your own equipment.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce - I'm happy that you are willing to let past winners participate - even if not for the trophy. 

I'm also planning to build a freight locomotive. 

Will there be a class for an A-B unit with 3-axle trucks (for 12 axles total)? Could it compete as an A unit in the 6-axle class and as an A-B unit in the 12 axle class? 

I'd hate to go to all that effort and not be able to compete. 

Thanks, 

Bob


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## wboylejr (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 
why don't you just make a model of a Baldwin Centipede and get it over with! How many driving axel can one man build?
Bill/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce
If someone could come up with some form of dynamic pull device it would probably be a different story.

Like that concept....train pull, similar to tractor pull.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

A Baldwin Centepede - I like the way you are thinking! But for now, I think 12 driving axles is enough in an A-B unit. Maybe it will look something like the early Krauss Maffei diesels (in Lake Hall & Highgrove black and tan, of course): 

http://www.divisionpoint.com/D+RGW_K-M.html 

Bob


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_Centipede

Interesting lolol, long engine with perpendicular sliding powered trucks. The front and the back trucks are non powered Then add lots of weight.


-Andrew


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

I think what Bob has in mind may be more like the Union Pacific Gas Turbines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_GTELs

There were several different variations to choose from. I personally like the Veranda models like #68.

Just have your axle count ready before the competition as I may run out of fingers and toes!


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce, 

I plan to build a separate A and B unit, with each unit electrically connected to operate as one, each having an engine and alternator, each having two 3-axle trucks. Something like this: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_E1 

Bob


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## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

H'mmmmm'
Let's see ,  That means I need to built another 2 truck trailer unit for the 4t Shay.  
Making it a o-4-4-0-4-4-0-4-4-0,  6t Shay.  Being external combustion we could also raise the boiler pressure, probably to 150 PSI or so & put in a High lift cam.  Maybe 3 more cylinders on the left side. With John's permission we could also 'KNURL" all of the wheels.  Then there are 4 more 4" long Berilliam copper slugs (6 lb's each) laying around that could be installed in the tanks to add to it's gripping power. Wadda ya think ???
  








LS-2173


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry, 

That sounds reasonable to me. 

Bob


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry, I think some of you guys have too much spare time on hands


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Rod, 

Actually, I already have most of the parts for the 12 axle A-B unit. I will begin tests with the new alternator in the next week or so. 


Bob


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## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

*Rod,
I'm retired as you are & my favorite place is in the shop working (FOR MYSELF FOR A CHANGE).
Havin fun & on the run.








LS - 2173*


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob,
  Looking for ward t o seeing your provisional testing results with the alternator, if all goes to plan you should have a real load hauler .


Larry,
     Good things come out of your shop so it will be something to see next year when your 6 truck Shay faces Bob's A+B unit, that will be some showdown/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif  How about couplingthe two contestants back to back with a spring balance gauge between them ,  then the big pull off.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

The Judge Sez,

An "A" and a "B" unit to me equals two units.  The results will need to be divided by two.  Now if the second unit is a slave or slug that is permanently coupled, as per several prototypes, then OK.  I guess the tech inspection guys will need to talk to NASCAR and F1 for help in writing new rules to cover any and all loco designs.  As there were NEVER any real 6 truck Shays then this loco would have to be entered in the fantasy class and would receive, you guessed it, a fantasy trophy.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce, 

Something for the Judge to consider: The B-unit will not be capable of operating on its own - It will not have a radio, batteries, or direction control switch. The B-unit will only have a throttle servo that is controlled from the A-unit radio. The A-unit will operate independently, but the B-unit can only operate if connected to the A-unit. 

If you still consider these to be two units, I'll just create a permanent span bolster between the A and B units just like the diesel guys of old did to avoid having a union fireman on the B unit! 

The reason I'm asking is I'm about to head out to the garage to start working on this thing! 

Bob


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Bob,

It all comes down to is there more than one motor-generator/alternator in the units.  The 4t Shay only had one set of cylinders or power source!

See the definition for slug here:   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slug_(railroad)

If the second unit is self-powered (motor-generator/alternator inside) even though it has no controls other than a MU connection of sorts, it is additional unit.  Most railroads numbered their units separately even though they were permanently coupled.  I.E. CB&Q #134A, 134B, 134C, and 134D, all permanently coupled but all had power with MU operations from the first unit. 

I've got to go to the fishing supply house and look for some stronger leader as the 15 lb test line is getting close to the breaking point.  We need more of a safety margin.  Or, we may need to add a catcher at the end of the track as we had when we ran the "Go Fast" races in St. Louis.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce, 

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe I'll just build a twin-engined locomotive (6-axle) and if I have enough time add a non-powered slug unit (attached permanently with a span bolster) for a 12-axle unit 

My last question, and then I promise to leave you alone! Could the locomotive run in the 4-axle class, then change the trucks to run in the 6-axle class, then add the slug to run in the 12-axle class? 

Thanks, 

Bob


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Bob,

MY HORSE IS DEAD!  Sent him to the glue factory!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif

Yes, yes, yes, anything you want at this point.

I'm filing with the authorities for a judgeship in another territory - maybe Tallahassee.
The people down there can't be that bad can they?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce, 

Sorry for killing your horse, and for bothering you. That wasn't my intention. 

Bob


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