# Using other peoples' layouts



## arvie (Dec 27, 2007)

Since I have no place to build my own layout, I'm thinking about purchasing a Bachmann Big Hauler trainset and a wireless controller of some sort with an eye toward running on club members' layouts with their permission. If this idea is ethical, I'd like some advice on which sets have the Annie engine. Is the Plainsman included? If not, which engines are the next best choice after the Annie? And what controller should I choose? 
Many thanks for your help.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Most people are more than happy to have you bring something to run. 

You will of course want to ask first, but I cannot see why people wouldn't want to. The only thing I have ever heard is people not wanting live steam on their tracks, because it leaves oil... (I have an easy way to clean so no big deal for me) 

What controller? That's a big question... how about filling us in on how many locos you expect to have and when/if you ever will have your own layout. 

Greg


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

We do some of that on my layout. Others bring their trains during an op session and have fun running them. One suggestion I have though is you would want to be battery powered to make it 100% transportable. Some layout's, like mine, have a constant 24 volts on the track all the time. So a person would need to be able to use constant voltage that does not change polarity, or be battery powered. Some people run track power that changes polarity and amplitude depending on how fast a train runs or what direction it's headed. So consider battery power with what ever controller you choose, that way you are not dependent on another person's track power. 

Have fun.
Mark
*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Last Saturday at my open house one of the youngsters asked me if he could run a train. It's a rare request, but I get it every now and then. I told him that the layout was running itself under automatic operation and that for him to run a train, I would have to park the others, which would take some doing, especially with a bunch of people standing around enjoying watching the trains run. But I felt bad about disappointing him.









On the other hand, I usually do an open run day the day before an open house for the club where people can bring their trains or run mine.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes and mark even lets some people crash his trains.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

If you do get to run on someones layout be respectful of his layout and trains.
And a big thank you goes a long way.

Don


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## arvie (Dec 27, 2007)

Greg asked how many locos. I anticipate only one loco (one train) until I learn more. So a simple controller should suffice.


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

You might consider changing to metal wheels. Some folks are fussy about plastic wheels. Overall I think you will be accepted. Don't be bashful about doing some of the grunt work for the owner, raking leaves, picking up sticks, mowing grass, etc.... Consider bringing some refreshments with you. Just be a good neighbor.


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Our garden railroad club encourages people to bring trains to run when we have meets at someone's home. The same holds for train shows at the fairground. We also have "fun runs" where the same holds true. I always enjoy seeing other's trains on my layout.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I often run my engines on other folks' layouts, particularly when we are on the road in our motorhome. I have had great times running my locomotive in Alaska, New England, etc. I only run with battery power and my trailing car has metal wheels, so I haven't had any problems. I have found most folks to be most gracious when I ask. In Skagway, AK, in a privately owned public garden with a garden railway, they welcomed me and had my engine running instead of their White Pass and Yukon train. In the White Mountains I stopped at a model train museum, and the owner happily pulled his 1 gauge engines and let me run mine right in his museum. It has given me a lot of pleasure, and I hope it has brought some pleasure to my "hosts" too!!! 

Ed


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Pete,
Maybe I need to include in our operating rules that if you break it, you pay for it. 
Mark


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Tom!! Offer to help ahead of time and when you offer to help ask if you can bring something out for a test run. That way you will most likely get to run something without any competition for track time and the owner will get to know you and whether your train is compatible with his layout. If everything is OK then ask it you can bring it to the open house.

Chuck


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Battery power can run on anyone's layout. All other controls systems have limitations on compatiblility. (Just say'in .... )


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

actually not true, most dcc decoders will run on DC and on DCC and switch automatically. There are other DCC decoders that work DC, DCC and interface to a wireless receiver, and can work on track power and battery. 

Nope, the proprietary controllers actually have more limitations than above... 

Greg


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm thinking that you won't always be able to get to visit someones layout when you want to unless maybe you join a club that has a large scale setup then you could go and run every weekend. In the mean time I would suggest that you get some track and some smaller trains. AristoCraft makes 21" and 31" diameter loops plus most starter sets come with 48" diameter loops. You coould add soem switches and get a little layout going on your kitchen table just for fun. At Christmas I set up a really cool running, 2 loops and switching setup with 5 switches inside a space about 4x8' . This little setup allows me to get my train fix while it is to cold out to run outside. 
Guys here have made what they call "pizza" layouts with lots of details. What makes this hobby so great for me is all the tinkering ie.. trains, trackwork, buildings, bridges, tunnels, gardening, etc..... 
For visiting other layouts battery is the way to go. 
Happy RRing 
Todd


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I made a circle with 2 8 foot rails. It came out to 32 inch diameter and each rail had only one rail clamp. No power loss for joiners here!!!!! 
Easy to transport also, nothing to come apart!!! 

Next will be 4 foot rail with 2 foot straights between the half circles.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I anticipate only one loco (one train) until I learn more. So a simple controller should suffice 
Arvie, 

I think you missed something. An electric loco, as it comes in the box from the shop, is track powered. Your "controller" (not sure what you were thinking here) won't work with the track system of the location you are visiting. [Were you remembereing those old Big Haulers with the batteries in them?] 

which sets have the Annie engine. 
As far as I know, none of the sets have the Anniversary version of the 4-6-0. They all have the 'rev 5' as George Schreyer calls them. The very latest sets will have the new locos with the metal gears, and i assume those will be "Annie" type engines, but I haven't seen any such set yet. 


I, too, often run my locos on other folks' layouts - as I live in a condo and don't have any track! The simplest option is to have a loco with a connector for a battery car (or a full conversion of the loco.) The battery car can provide power independant of the rails and can be controlled by your 'controller'. But you have to build or commission one - they aren't available in stores.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 May 2012 08:56 PM 
actually not true, ....

Well actually it IS true. None or your locos (DCC for those that don't know) will run on my layout (no track power available, all battery), and all of my battery powered locos will run on yours or anyone else's. So if someone like Arvie wants to get into the hobby and plans on running on friend's layouts, his best option is battery power. Of course if all of the friends have conventional DC track power. No problem. He is ready to go out of the box. If there is a mixture of systems on the layouts he intends to run on, then one nice little battery powered loco will fit the bill. (And we don't need to get into the economies of scale here. A newbie running on other's layouts doesn't need a fleet of 20 locomotives.)

I do this all of the time .... I usually bring a Critter or a Railbus to club meetings. The first question I always get from someone is "How can you do that? or "Do I need to shut off my power pack so you can run?" No problem. All I need is track (for steering).


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

As long as you are running DC it will work with any controller. If the guy is all battery then you need not think about operating on his layout. Why make modes just for one guy. Later RJD


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 May 2012 08:56 PM 
There are other DCC decoders that work DC, DCC and interface to a wireless receiver, and can work on track power and battery. 


Greg 

Not so Greg.
Actually, according to both you and Knut, there is no such thing as battery powered DCC. In a long running discussion some time ago, both of you were most insistent that to be DCC it can only be track powered. 
If and when the Massoth DRC 300 ever sees the light of day that situation may change.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I think it a good idea to build or buy something special with a couple of cars to tow behind it and use battery power. I would also suggest setting up a little switching puzzle or some type of shelf layout. I have seen some amazing setups in very tight places. I think it would be nice if you could setup something just to shuttle soem cars back and forth in between invites and visits to other layouts. 
Todd


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Arvie, do you belong to a club now? If yes, what are their policies? If not, where do you live? Someone here probably knows a club in your area that will accomodate you. If you live within driving distance of Ventura, CA, that would be the Gold Coast GRS, and you would be more than welcome to come to our meets and run your stuff.


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## arvie (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks to everyone for the info and advice. If I proceed, it will be with a local club and within their regulation. It looks like battery power will give me unlimited choice of layout. 
Now, I have a remaining question about the Bachmann train sets. I don't know which, if any, have the Annie engine. Thanks for input on this.
BR


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

it should be noted that the battery powered engines should be wired so that they are isolated electrically from the rails. I usually install a switch so I can run track (DC) power or battery power. the switch cuts the electrical connection between the wheel pickups and the motor (or motor control board.) Otherwise you will either get charge/discharge of your batteries from the track power supply or just try to drive any other engines on the track.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 16 May 2012 04:13 PM 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 May 2012 08:56 PM 
actually not true, ....

Well actually it IS true. None or your locos (DCC for those that don't know) will run on my layout (no track power available, all battery), and all of my battery powered locos will run on yours or anyone else's. So if someone like Arvie wants to get into the hobby and plans on running on friend's layouts, his best option is battery power. Of course if all of the friends have conventional DC track power. No problem. He is ready to go out of the box. If there is a mixture of systems on the layouts he intends to run on, then one nice little battery powered loco will fit the bill. (And we don't need to get into the economies of scale here. A newbie running on other's layouts doesn't need a fleet of 20 locomotives.)

I do this all of the time .... I usually bring a Critter or a Railbus to club meetings. The first question I always get from someone is "How can you do that? or "Do I need to shut off my power pack so you can run?" No problem. All I need is track (for steering). 
..............................................................................................................................................................................................

Like De T. said.. All work great being batt. powered until some one ask you a question and you turn and look at him.. Then you head a plunk. Swing bridge opened up and you went thru a track powered blocked signal.. Just kidding you Del .. Just had to put that in.. lol. I have extra hair dryers.. 

BR.. If you go to someone else's layout, make sure they show you how there layout operates. We alway have new people running on our R.R. with no problems that we can't fix. Still... extra blow dryers if needed for there trains... lol.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a remaining question about the Bachmann train sets. I don't know which, if any, have the Annie engine.
Yes, I'm curious about that. I have never seen a set with an Anniversary engine in it. 

Wouldn't you be better off just buying the engine and a train to go with it? The track isn't very useful.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't believe any Bachmann train set comes with the Annie locomotive. Just so you know (in case you weren't aware) the Annie is an upgraded version of the 'standard' Bachmann ten wheeler. 

Scratch that. Some of the christmas sets came with an Annie in them but that has been a few years since they were released. 

Terry


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, 

> Some of the christmas sets came with an Annie in them but that has been a few years since they were released. 

Yeah, I think 2005 or 06 was the last one I saw. 

Best, 
TJ


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## arvie (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks so much to all for the info and advice. 
Now, I'm looking for a Bachmann train set with an Annie engine. Is there such thing?


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## arvie (Dec 27, 2007)

Sorry that I duplicated here. Guess I'll go with a separate Annie and some stuff for it to pull. Will the J&S cars match with the Annie?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Curious here, why are you stuck on a "Annie"? 

I understood the latest Bachmann locos to be even better locos - with improved gear trains...!! 

Build the train as you want it, a loco, and a set of cars!!! go have fun!!! 

Buy what you need ( and will use ), don't spend money on stuff you will not use or get lasting enjoyment out of for years to come... 

My thoughts, ... 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## arvie (Dec 27, 2007)

Dirk, I'm finding it difficult to sort out the Bachman engines. I would favor a set because of the cost factor, except I seem to read that the Annie is superior. I won't be running it hard nor often. Are the current sets equipped with an improved engine? Any further input is appreciated.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Get your self a current generation of the Annie. Put couplers on it that are either body mounted or truck mounted with a raised offset to match body mounted. The set will give you things what will not be very helpful in the future; weak power supply, track not suitable for outdoors, (and a radius that is too tight for the engine). If you want to go with battery get a car that you like, not ones that are forced upon you as part of a set. If you have an engine with suitable couplers you will be able to find a train at most layouts to pull. If you came to my layout you would be able to pull any of my narrow gauge cars. As a beginner put your money into the best engine you can afford. That is not usually an engine in a set.

Chuck


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## curlyp (Sep 4, 2009)

If your ever on the Central Coast of California, Come to Paso Robles and you can run on the D&P Mountain RR. Battery or live steam only, I don't have track power

Paul 
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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

When i took the plunge a few years ago into large scale I decided to model RRs that ran around the Johnson City TN area that I was living in at that time. Started out buying the latest ET&WNC Annie that was out at that time. I think it was in the 130 dollar range from Trainworld or st. Aubins or somewhere. Very affordable and it's been a very nice running engine. I bought the Bachmann rolling stock i wanted individually over the years. I can recommend that route over buying a 'trainset'. but some of the sets give you a few cars to get started and for the same price as I paid for the Annie. I prefer the Annie myself for the nice valve gearing and detail that comes with it though. 
My brother gave me an older train command controller he had laying around and a power supply that works well with it. I was living in a condo at that time so no place to set up outdoors. I built a rectangular loop about four feet off the ground around the perimeter of the 11' by 20' basement room and away I went. It wasn't a garden layout but it was a nice place to run my trains all year around and I could concentrate on the trains instead of the learning curve with building an outdoor layout. I continued to purchase Southern diesels and rolling stock in 1:29 and bought a Connie and other rolling stock on eBay etc. over the years. 
I also have a third generation Big hauler that my Uncle gave me that I modified to look like ET&WNC's number 11 loco. I made the modifications that George Schreyer recommends on his website regarding securing the motor better in the frame and weighting the lead truck for that generation and it runs great but the Annie is still superior amd pulls more cars. i have not gotten around to putting Kadee couplers on my Bachmann stuff yet but I did, and do recommend buying their metal wheels and replacing all the plastic wheels on the rolling stock. it's an easy modification and makes the cars roll nicer and if you visit someone's outdoor layout they will likely appreciate the fact that you have metal wheels on your rolling stock. If they don't run track power you will be SOL. If they have other couplers on their stock you will only be able to pull the cars you bring with you with some exceptions as many couplers 'sort of' couple up with stock couplers but not very well. 
I think I read a review recently in Garden Railways by Marc Horowitz that said the new Annie now has metal gearing. Finally. If you buy one of those you should have a locomotive that will run well for many, many years.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

taken from Wholesale Trains listings.... 

D&RGW (Bumble Bee) #178 4-6-0 Anniversary Edition, Bachmann BAC91602 

description of latest, improved "Anni"- versary loco, by Bach-Mannnnnn!! couple hundred dollars, add - coupler, batteries, and radio and have fun!! 

"With its operating headlight, smoke, and speed-synchronized sound, the 4-6-0 has long served as the backbone of our Large Scale line, providing motive power to Bachmann Big Haulers regular sets for over two decades. With more than 1 million sold, the 4-6-0 has helped bring the hobby of model railroading to people around the world. Bachmann is happy to offer this improved anniversary edition of the 4-6-0 Steam Locomotive with new metal gears and an updated lead truck. Combining these new features with metal siderods, separate piping, and all metal handrails, this 4-6-0 is a locomotive that Mr. Baldwin and Company would be proud to call their own." 

What do you think your favorite line might be?!! 

Anyone else care to add to this?!! 

Dirk


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The Bachmann Big Hauler 4-6-0 has for a long time been a good value for money loco. Especially the Anniversary edition. However, one thing it is not, is a Plug'n'Play conversion to battery R/C. 
Although not as difficult as some locos to convert to batter R/C, nonetheless, some modification is required. 
If this latest version with metal gears has been modified and a PnP socket fitted, I for one will be very delighted.


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## arvie (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By chuck n on 24 May 2012 08:52 PM 
Get your self a current generation of the Annie. Put couplers on it that are either body mounted or truck mounted with a raised offset to match body mounted. The set will give you things what will not be very helpful in the future; weak power supply, track not suitable for outdoors, (and a radius that is too tight for the engine). If you want to go with battery get a car that you like, not ones that are forced upon you as part of a set. If you have an engine with suitable couplers you will be able to find a train at most layouts to pull. If you came to my layout you would be able to pull any of my narrow gauge cars. As a beginner put your money into the best engine you can afford. That is not usually an engine in a set.

Chuck 
Thanks, Chuck, for this convincing and practical info. My hand's-down 1st choice is the Eureka & Palisade 4-4-0. But the cost is a deterrent so I may go with the Big Hauler Annie since it is also in the same time period. Staying with Bachmann for economic reasons. My 'first love" is the V&T Genoa, but I can't find it in large scale. 

Arvie


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

The Annies are good engines and they'll look fine pulling the Bachmann J&S passenger cars. I have one that I got a year or two ago. Haven't run it a ton (it was intended as a backup engine), but it's run great every time I've taken it out, looks allright, and pulls well. LGB Moguls are smaller, pricier, and not the best pullers, but look good and the older ones are built like a Tiger tank and will keep running through a nuclear war. I at one point had mine in storage for 10 years, pulled them out, put them on track, and they ran just fine without any service needed.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Posted By TJH on 29 May 2012 01:23 PM 
The Annies are good engines and they'll look fine pulling the Bachmann J&S passenger cars. I have one that I got a year or two ago. Haven't run it a ton (it was intended as a backup engine), but it's run great every time I've taken it out, looks allright, and pulls well. LGB Moguls are smaller, pricier, and not the best pullers, but look good and the older ones are built like a Tiger tank and will keep running through a nuclear war. I at one point had mine in storage for 10 years, pulled them out, put them on track, and they ran just fine without any service needed.
I concur, as I pull a mixed train usually of ET&WNC freight cars and the Bachmann J&S passenger cars behind and it looks well matched for a starter railroad. The Annie pulls more cars from my experience than the standard Big hauler and has the nicer piping details and some valves in the cab and metal valve gearing that's fun to watch and for the price of a 9 V battery you get the bonus of basic steam chuffing sound. It doesn't compare to a real sound card but for just starting out having any sound on your railroad adds a nice touch. For a two hundred dollar locomotive plus some matching scale Bachmann cars it's a pretty good place to jump into large scale trains.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By arvie on 28 May 2012 08:01 PM 
Thanks, Chuck, for this convincing and practical info. My hand's-down 1st choice is the Eureka & Palisade 4-4-0. But the cost is a deterrent so I may go with the Big Hauler Annie since it is also in the same time period. Staying with Bachmann for economic reasons. My 'first love" is the V&T Genoa, but I can't find it in large scale. 

Arvie




I wouldn't get too hung up on road name. that's something that can be changed pretty easily. My Annie started life as a WP&Y loco, but it's now lettered for the D&RGW (actually all my Rio Grande lettered engines started life as another road name). Yes Bachmann makes one, but I'm not a fan of the Annie as a bumblebee, not to mention I already have a bumblebee LGB Mogul, so I wanted a black and silver one. I just took off the lettering on the tender, the white border around the number on the cab, and applied some microscale D&RGW decals. It gets the job done. You can always look to see if the decals are available commercially or there's people on here that will custom make them for you.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

I saw this week on Trainworldonline that the current "Annie" for ET&WNC appears not to be the traditional green boilered Number 12 but the number 11 from the years they had black boilers and less Southern RR look alike paint schemes. There's also an unlettered black Annie for 219 bucks. Buy one of those, a little paint and some good decals, and it can be anybody's 4-6-0 that you want since it seems to be a pretty 'nebulous' scaled engine anyway that nobody can seem to really nail down what scale the model actually is. With parts available from Bachmann you can easily change the stack and some other details and there's other mods available out there for the Annie.


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## arvie (Dec 27, 2007)

Wow! All of your responses are great. Many thanks to everyone. I think my premise is well supported; and yes there is a club in my area. I'm leaning heavily toward the Annie - perhaps an unlettered one that I can paint to my preference (that's a risky idea). 

While I have y'all on the line, my next question has to do with battery operation. I would prefer that route if it can be done rather simply and easily. Don't want to get into dcc or elaborate sound at this point - just good reliable power and a easy control. Look forward to your suggestions.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Arvie:

To paint or not to paint is the question. If you are not worried about maintaining "collectors" value, go for it. If it doesn't work out try again. Most if not all steamers had more than one coat of paint. You have no idea how much angst I went through before I bashed my original red and green Mogul. 


The diesel pushing the rotary is an LGB WP&Y engine. It came with sound and the D&RGW didn't. I got a good price and out came the paint and decals. The D&RGW never had this engine on NG or SG, but since my railroad is a museum, not anything real, what the he!!. 











Chuck

PS The body of the rotary was a Delton caboose whose roof was trashed in a hail storm. 


Batteries are great and give you more options. But before you go that route, spend some time with your local club and see how many layouts require battery. For the initial price of a good battery setup, you can get a car or two. Spend some time with your engine and learn what is best for you in your area. My experience is that many garden railroads have track power. There was a poll in the poll section awhile back on power used by members here on MLS. Look at it.


On my computer there are 3 pages of comments and tables, the bottom line is that most railroads run both battery and track power. There are a few battery railroads that don't have track power, but not that many.


type of power


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By arvie on 07 Jun 2012 04:07 PM 
...

While I have y'all on the line, my next question has to do with battery operation. I would prefer that route if it can be done rather simply and easily. Don't want to get into dcc or elaborate sound at this point - just good reliable power and a easy control. Look forward to your suggestions.

Please start a new topic Arvie. Best place would be in the battery power section.


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