# LGB 49180 Roll Car (transporter) Set



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

At the 11th Marklin Days in Göppingen, Germany, LGB yesterday (Sept. 15, 2017) introduced a really brand new item - a DR Rollwagen or roll car.
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=8864

The one somewhat innovative feature of this car is a mix of plastic and metal construction to increase its weight and lower its centre of gravity.
The middle part of the car is a diecast piece.

These cars were used on narrow gauge railroads to move goods that were initially loaded into standard gauge freight cars without having to unload the goods from the standard gauge car to the narrow gauge car.

The standard gauge car would just roll onto the narrow gauge roll car and continue its journey to its destination.

Modelshop Boerman of the Netherlands actually offers a working model of the prototypical arrangement allowing a gauge II car (64mm gauge) to be pushed onto the roll car.

I'm not aware of any similar arrangement ever being used in North America - ie a standard gauge box car or gondola being transported on a narrow gauge car with a section of standard gauge track on it.

Maybe someone can enlighten me.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I'm not aware of any similar arrangement ever being used in North America - ie a standard gauge box car or gondola being transported on a narrow gauge car with a section of standard gauge track on it.


I've never heard of one, but there are a lot of alternate solutions. Most USA cars use trucks to deal with rough track, which was common in the early days. Hence it was easiest to swap the trucks on a std gauge car for narrow gauge trucks.

One such interesting system was the Ramsey Transfer:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/153074.aspx

Another was the 'Timber Transfer' overhead crane on the East Broad Top, which was repurposed to lift std gauge wagons and insert/remove EBT ng trucks.
http://www.totalracing.com/ebt/ttoperation.htm

And of course, this EBT fan just had to have a std gauge boxcar running on the narrow gauge. That's a 36' Southern boxcar behind the mikado:


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Knut;

I have seen a system by some manufacturer (perhaps Brawa) in HO that would set a two axle standard gauge car onto a bogie that secured the standard gauge car by its axle. The bogies worked similar to logging disconnect trucks, as they used the larger car for a frame.

I concur with Pete. I am unaware of any system for transporting standard gauge cars over three foot gauge other than truck swapping. Speeds on the narrow gauge were usually slow enough to keep the standard gauge car from wobbling alarmingly.

Yours,
David Meashey


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Dave,

Modelshop Boerman in the Netherlands introduced these bogies you're thinking of two years ago for G-Scale.
Unfortunately his website is just in Dutch and German
http://www.modelbouwboerman.nl/0005-0101_de.html

When I think of railroad methods to change gauge, it always reminds me of the trains that change gauge on-the-fly, both in Spain and in Russia - going from Standard gauge to broad gauge and vice versa.
But I haven't seen that in a model of any scale

Regards,
Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

There was also a video posted of the 11th Maeklin Days show that ran this weekend, Sept 15-17


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So those allow narrow gauge cars to be loaded on trucks running on a standard gauge railway.

Your opening post talks about the reverse, but I don't see any examples you posted of this, i.e. standard gauge cars loaded on trucks to navigate narrow gauge railways, although the post by Pete shows this.

So, is your first post "backwards", that you are showing a truck for transporting narrow gauge cars on a standard gauge line?

Greg - 769



krs said:


> Dave,
> 
> Modelshop Boerman in the Netherlands introduced these bogies you're thinking of two years ago for G-Scale.
> Unfortunately his website is just in Dutch and German
> ...


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> So those allow narrow gauge cars to be loaded on trucks running on a standard gauge railway.


No,the opposite.
Standard gauge cars loaded on the roll car so they can travel on narrow gauge lines.
At least that is the LGB model.
The gauge of the rails on the roll car is adjustable so the roll car can accomodate different gauges if need be - not just Standard gauge.
But transporting Standard gauge cars is the most common arrangement



> Your opening post talks about the reverse, but I don't see any examples you posted of this, i.e. standard gauge cars loaded on trucks to navigate narrow gauge railways, although the post by Pete shows this.


Here is a prototype picture of a standard gauge car on a roll car:

For our trains (scale 2) standard gauge would be 64mm gauge.




> So, is your first post "backwards", that you are showing a truck for transporting narrow gauge cars on a standard gauge line?


No, my first post is correct - standard gauge cars on narrow gauge line.

Greg - 769[/QUOTE]


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Great looking car by LGB--no doubt the RhB version will follow since they are still using this system too. I seem to remember seeing a picture of one in Canada--think it was in Newfoundland on their narrow gauge line but can't find the picture now. They did truck swapping as well.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I was actually surprised and disappointed about this "Überraschung" (Surprise) by MLGB.
For one it's the DR version of which there are several already by other manufacturers.
It's also a "shorty" version compared to the TrainLine one for instance - but then again it's cheaper.

I took a look at the RhB version when TrainLine came out with their roll cars - the RhB roll cars are quite a bit longer so just adding the RhB logos and running numbers doesn't really cut it.

I would have thought it would have made more sense for MLGB to do the RhB version instead of another DR version considering they spent the money on tooling.
As far as I know, nobody has ever made the RhB roll car

PS: Turns out that is wrong - Scheba offered an RhB roll car years ago.
It was 625mm long - almost twice as long as the new LGB one
http://www.schurer-online.de/scheba/wagen/ua8314.htm


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

krs said:


> I was actually surprised and disappointed about this "Überraschung" (Surprise) by MLGB.
> For one it's the DR version of which there are several already by other manufacturers.
> It's also a "shorty" version compared to the TrainLine one for instance - but then again it's cheaper.
> 
> ...


I too was surprised they would do it right after Trainline--as you say the RhB version would have been better. We will see what they come up with for the big 50th anniversary--Sieber was alluding to many new items next year.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, taking me a little time to spin up.

So if the model is supposed to be narrow gauge, what is the prototype gauge? European NG can be a lot of things, I'd guess it's 1000mm or 750mm?

So depending on which it is supposed to represent, what is the scale then?

Does that match the scale of a normal German standard gauge car that would ride in the roller?

The example given in post #4 is the other way, clearly the wheels of the carried car sit inside the wheels on the rails, so at least this one is "backwards" from what is described in post #1.

Please help clear the confusion, and I'd be interested to know the answers to the scale and gauge questions above.

My guess is this is 1000mm gauge prototype, which on 45mm track should yield a scale of 22.2:1, so I guess this is just right for LGB, so are there any 1,435mm gauge models made in 1:22? I guess that would require about 65mm model track.

Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> OK, taking me a little time to spin up.
> 
> So if the model is supposed to be narrow gauge, what is the prototype gauge? European NG can be a lot of things, I'd guess it's 1000mm or 750mm?
> 
> ...


Hi Greg,
The example in post #4 is also carrying a standard gauge car--look at photo 7 in the link where you can clearly see the standard gauge wheels outside the ones below--it's the axles that sit in those saddles, not the wheels--maybe that's what is confusing on those ones.
Have a look at the LGB flyer--it shows the new car pretty well:

http://www.champex-linden.de/download_fremddokumente_2017/2017_lgb_flyer_49180.pdf

Regarding the 64mm track...have a look here at Bertram Heyn's website--he makes dual gauge track:
https://www.modell-werkstatt.de/gleissystem


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Questions, always questions.  


> are there any 1,435mm gauge models made in 1:22


There was a hint in his earlier post, where he mentioned the 'carried' standard gauge item would be 64mm gauge. 
[And if you Google 1,435mm, which I did inadvertently, you find _"The subsequent Gauge Act ruled that new passenger-carrying railways in Great Britain should be built to a standard gauge of 1,435 mm (4 ft 8 1⁄2 in)" _]This is Gauge-3, which has been the subject of several threads in the past. The Brits have a supplier of "G64" standard gauge equipment which matches the scale of the LGB stuff, which is meter gauge in the G-3 scale of 1:22.5.
For example: http://www.grsuk.com/GWR-MANOR-78-XX-CLASS-TENDER-LOCO-M2500

I do not know of any German supplier of std gauge equipment in 1:22.5, or "Spur 2" as they call it.


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

KRS -

A possible RhB snow blower forthcoming? Wow! I know Ed's Gartenbahn showed a prototype a bit back.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Lorna said:


> KRS -
> 
> A possible RhB snow blower forthcoming? Wow! I know Ed's Gartenbahn showed a prototype a bit back.


Where did you hear this?

This is supposed to be a BIG secret!

I actually thought the RhB XRot wa going to be the "surprise" at the Marklin days - but it was not to be.

In the meantime you can save your pennies - you have until the Nurnberg Fair to order one.
But it won't be cheap - it's all brass construction.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Pete, now THAT'S large scale!!

Greg - 764


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

To try to answer Greg's questions a bit more and hopefully cause more confusion. 

The LGB model of the roll car is the type Rf4 which was used a lot in Saxony - their narrow gauge was typically 750mm.
TrainLine has a roll car, several versions actually, some are HSB, so 1000mm for the prototype.
All 45mm for us of course.

Scale of the car? "G" of course

As to the standard gauge car that would ride on the roll car?
That would have to be "Spur 2", 64mm gauge and 1:22.5 scale which is fairly common in Germany - assuming you have deep pockets.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, the Trainline model would be 22.5 scale assuming 1000mm narrow gauge on 45 mm track. That makes perfect sense, you have 22.5:1 ng models running on 45mm track, and you can find standard gauge models in 1:22.5 running on the appropriate 84mm track.

Now if you have a 750mm prototype on 45mm track, then the scale should be 16.6:1 and the model gauge of a standard prototype would be about 86mm track.
So, is there someone who makes this scale on this gauge? 

Seems pretty strange to make a model that is way out of scale compared to what else is running on the 45mm track and there's no scale standard gauge equipment to fit on the rollers. Or maybe I don't know about 1:16 scale stuff from LGB in 750mm and 1435mm gauges.

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg,

Scale fidelity was never LGB's strong point.

I think from a scale perspective, the Stainz at about 1:19 was the largest they ever made.
But of course that is a NG loco.

There is NEM "III" - scale 1:16 with 89mm gauge model track - but I don't think the LGB roll car would be able to handle that wide a gauge.
Not actually having seen one of these, it sounds as if a 64mm gauge car is the most this roll car can handle as a load.
Remember L*G*B - G for Gummi or Goofy

Lately, LGB has been focusing on locos and cars from Saxony - all 750mm prototype gauge and 45mm model gauge, but I don't think the scale is much bigger than 1:22.5


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, there is a BIG difference between 1:22 and 1:16 for sure... it's an interesting model, but I would want to have at least one "load" for these rollers.

I'm looking at that Spur II stuff with 64mm track... My wife is English and there seems to be some stuff out there, but hard to believe that there's no German stuff....

Greg - 762


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg,

There is actually a lot of German stuff that runs on 64mm track - but....
you have to search on google.de (not google.com) and then for Spur II
Standard gauge in German is Normalspur or Regelspur

We ended up with enough 64mm products on the GBDB database that we added a separate category for those products.

And when you google for Spur II items, this will also include Spur IIm which is essentially LGB


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Knut, the snowblower can be seen in this video--it was apparently at the LGB table so not so secret, but others have said this is one of Ottmars and not going to be made by LGB. I would love to see them make it though...I hope you're right!


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I didn't mean the snow blower in the video - I meant the old steam powered XRot (picture below)
I would love to get the new, modern snow blower in the video as well since I have the old Xrot already.
But maybe my contact at LGB is confused and she did mean the modern one - it's just not what people refer to as XRot normally


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I normally think of the Xrot as the old steam powered one too--just figured they must have meant the modern one because it was the one at their table. LGB certainly has had prototypes of the old Xrot built for them over the years so in a way that one would make more sense.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> hard to believe that there's no German stuff....


From KRS:


> As to the standard gauge car that would ride on the roll car?
> That would have to be "Spur 2", 64mm gauge and 1:22.5 scale which is fairly common in Germany - assuming you have deep pockets.


So a quick google turns up zenner.de, which seems to specialize in coverting LGB cars to Spur (gauge) 2 (=64mm)










https://www.zennershop.de/shop/en/g...-dr-reconstruction-of-lgb-car-on-scale-2-64mm


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes, Zenner offers a number of cars and locos that he converted to 64mm gauge.

Works reasonably well if one picks the right model.
His items are very inexpensive in comparison to the more traditional "Spur II" manufacturers like Magnus, Scheba and Strauss.
There are probably more small manufacturers but I'm not into that scale/gauge.
Magnus has closed shop; Scheba I'm not sure and Strauss is still in business.

But there are a lot of Magnus locos and cars running on 64mm track available both on line and at the various Large Scale events in Germany.
Pricing of 64mm cars by the last three manufacturers run several hundred Euros up to close to a thousand just for a car.
Zenner's conversions start at 99 Euros and go to about 160 Euros for a car.

Strauss' current offering of 64mm cars is here:
http://www.strauss-modellbahn.de/Spur2.htm

Scroll to the very bottom


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Came across this video with RhB and some of the roller cars with standard gauge cars riding on them.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Here are three more German manufacturers offering 64mm gauge cars

http://modellbau-uwe.de/wagons-spur-2---64-mm.html

http://www.mw-altenweddingen.de/4.html

http://www.eisenbahn-fleischer.de/index.php/produkte/category/view/1


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

One more making some really nice items:

http://feld-grossbahn.de/produkte/spur-2/spur-2-regelspur.html


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