# Sources for switch building material?



## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Having a lot more time than money, I thought it would be fun to build a couple of switches. Periodically, I see a few bits on ebay like frogs, etc. Is there a source(s) for some materials...even rail? A quick search on the 'net' didn't help. Thanks, Bill


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

All of my previous switches (10 turnouts) I have built I've used Llagas creek railway products. I don't know what size rail you are planning on using, but Llagas has both code 250 and code 215 rail, frogs, and point assemblies that you can buy. All of the switches I've made so far I've used the llagas frogs and points to make building a turnout a little bit easier. Look on the llagas creek website for more info. If you want you can buy or cut your own ties. For all of my previous turnouts I've just used cedar fencing cut up on the table saw. But now that I'm in graduate school and don't have access to my shop anymore, my next turnout I'm using redwood strips from Ozark Miniatures a bit more expensive then I want, but that's the best I can do. And I'm planning on building a #9 and no one makes commercial frogs or points that will work so I'll be making my own. 
The first question to answer would be to find out what size rail your planning on using, and the turnout #. A smaller number is a sharper turnout but a larger number is shallower but longer. Most people stick with either a #4 or #6. MLS has a few different articles on turnout building so do a quick search. Don't be scared by building a turnout, with frogs and points it's a fairly easy project. Don't forget to buy spikes too. 
Hope this helps. 
Craig


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks! I did check their site and looks like they have most all the required 'stuff'. I see also on ebay, there's a source for redwood ties. I'll look for the articles, sounds like fun and fairly easy. Bill


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Bill, 
Be sure to read articles in about HO and other scale turnouts too. It's the same concepts but on a larger scale. If you have access to a table or band saw making your own ties is really easy. I've made quite a few ties in only a couple of hours with a table saw. Once you get comfortable you try you hand at making your own frogs and points, but my suggestion is to use the Llagas stuff for the first couple of times. 
Here's a PDF of a turnout build. 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/mikereilley/Track roadbed trestles bridges/turnout building.pdf 

Feel free to ask questions too! 
Craig


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Wow! That's a fantastic source of info....I love pictures, if I can see it, I can usually build it. This would be a great winter project. I also have an 'N' guage layout in my shop, so I have a number of switches.........turnouts, for examples!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

I concur with the suggestion that you try the Llagas frogs and point blades. I found them very easy to use. 

Kappler Lumber makes scale products, including ties in #1, G and F scale. (1/32, 1/22.5, 1/20.3.) 
-www.kapplerusa.com/y2k/kp-products.htm (obfuscated link so this site doesn't mess with it. Just copy it to your browser and remove the -.) 

Garden Railways Magazine has run two complete articles on making switches. The first one was all photos, but it ran several years ago. There was a recent article in the last year which you can probably get a your hands on.


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## Brendan (Jan 12, 2008)

Bill,
I've been building my own switches for some time now. It's really not that hard. The hardest part is actually making a start. What code rail are you using? Find a suitable template or plan. Try making your own frogs, they're not that hard and make sure the base it sound. I use 18mm marine ply.
Give it a go it's good fun and cheap.


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks to Craig for the PDF, I'm still digesting the info. I've managed to download one of the patterns and taped it together to get an idea of how to proceed. I'm using USAT track, which I suppose is Code 332, and have located LGB brass track at Trainz. Don't want to buy $500 worth of track. The one thing that still is not clear is 'hinging' the closure rail and/or point......if I have my nomenclature correct. The drawings nad pictures aren't really clear enough to tell. Is there a pivot point fastened to the rail, or,from the pics, it looks like 'warping' the closure rail. My little 'N' gauge switches have actual pivots riveted through the ties. Bill


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Are you talking about where the closure rail and the point rail come together? Different approaches for different people. Here's my approach. Take a standard rail joiner (covers the web of the rail) and slip it over the point rail on the end. On the closure rail drill a small dimple near the end of the rail (1/16"-1/8") then slide the rail joiner over the closure rail just like a you normally would, and take a blunt nail and tap the rail joiner into the small dimple you created. Flexible that the point rail moves, but strong enough to keep everything together. Clear as mud right? 
Craig


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The one thing that still is not clear is 'hinging' the closure rail and/or point 
Bill, 

A tried-and-true method is to use a track joiner that (a) has been loosened a bit so the point rail can swing from side to side, and (b) dimples have been punched underneath into depressions drilled into the rails. 

As a picture is worth a thousand words: (red arrows point to dimples, circled yellow on left side.)


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks, clear, guys! I hadn't noticed the 'break' on the plan I downloaded, so, the explanation is clear. I had planned on going up to the town near my house and taking some pics of a newly installed switch when the resurrected the railroad was brought through here. Years ago, the town, up on the Plateau here in Tennessee, was big timber and coal mining country. The RR wound up the mountain and there was, still is, parts remaining of a huge 'Y' in town. BNSF, extended the rail up into Kentucky recently to haul sand, I'm told. They run excursion trains up here, too, from Nashville, but 'back up' down the mountain.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Check out SwitchCrafters for supplies too:

http://www.switchcrafters.com/

They have rail spikes and ties. They sell tie kits or in lengths too. Also they have a composite tie option. I just order lots of material from them and was very impressed with their service and quality. I'm planning to build my own switches too. I'm too cheap to spring for tie so I will be cutting my own from oak or cedar. I also plan to create my own frogs as well. This may present special challenges as soldering aluminum (what I use since I run live steam) rail is not an option. There are several ways around that though, so don't be afraid of aluminum switches. Keep us posted on your build!


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I haven't tried it yet but an easier solution to soldering frogs and making points (if you wanted) would be to use a nickel silver. It's more expensive but remember your not building the whole turnout, just the frog and/or the points. I wouldn't use oak for ties. In the GR issues back an article "if I had only known" was about someone who used oak to make a bridge, and it completely failed because of the way the oak absorbs water. Have a lot at it before committing your self to oak! 
Craig


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Thus far, seems the two sources for rail in short lengths are: Trainz-59" piece for LGB, and Sunset valley brass 250 in 6' lengths. So, the question is since my track is brass USAT....I assume 332, does that work together or problem?


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

USA rail is code 332. If you have a caliper measure the height of the rail and that will tell you 'what' code it is. The rail code is simply the height in decimal inches. You can use different size rail but you would need transition joiners which would make building a turnout more difficult. Stick with what you have for now. So if you have 332 use 332 for the turnout. If you've got scrap rail laying around use that instead of buying new stuff. 
I uploaded a picture of one of my points. Here's the link 
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150298441821912.360834.838651911&l=0f189681a7&type=1 
Craig


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## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

I don't know how good you are at changing scales but even with trial and error it is pretty simple. I cannot think of a better selection than these. And they are all free. You would just have to find what you like and then scale it up. They have "Y"s, and three ways and double... well you will see. 

http://www.handlaidtrack.com/Fast-Tracks-Printable-Track-Templates-s/11.htm


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

If you look at the subject for "Leveling Turnouts" - I posted some pics of my switch build in progress there! I used rail joiners, drilling a interference hole to press in a brass pins for each part - but did so in a horizontal fashion. Works far better than I hoped for or could imagine, the point movement is slick!! I used parts from Switch Crafters also! The rail was milled for me, for all needed parts, using Aluminum code 250 rail. Hope this gives some more ideas. I also added brass spacer bars behind the throw bar to add spacing control over the long floating point assembly, which extend under the stock rails and help keep the points from floating up during movement. Looks like the real switches near me on UP's main line in S.E. AZ also. Redwood ties - hand cut & hand laid.. 

Thanks - Dirk 
Dragoon Mountain Scenic Railway


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks for the reference pics, very clear! As I study this, appears one could write a book on 'Switches'. I've been looking at materials...and pricing! I haven't noticed any tie plates being used in switches, is there a reason? I see there's a variety of ties from plastic, 'composites'...whatever those are and wood. Which wood is best? I see some neat tools, also....pricey too! If you guys could tell me what roughly sizes/ wood types for ties, I might try 'rolling my own'. I have a table saw and time......once it cools off. My wife has had me laying tile outside...and it's HOT! Bill


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Ties are typically 7" x 9". Turnout ties range from 8 1/2' to 15' with a variety of number and lengths. Why don't people use tie plates? Three reasons I think, First most people are modeling narrow gauge which generally didn't use tie plates. Secondly it's pricey to use tie plates (a switch uses over 100), and thirdly no one makes longer tie plates that you need for certain areas of the turnout. My first turnouts I built I used cedar fence boards that I cut into 5/16" square and then left cut them to length as I went. The basic tools that you would need are; track gauge, file (if making your own points & frog), pair of old needle nose pliers so you can grind out a slot to hold spikers (or buy a pair of track laying pliers that are preground), table saw. I think that's about it. 
Craig


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's some pictures I found of one of the turnouts I made. The turnout is a #6


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Posted By bnsfconductor on 01 Sep 2011 07:06 PM 
I haven't tried it yet but an easier solution to soldering frogs and making points (if you wanted) would be to use a nickel silver. It's more expensive but remember your not building the whole turnout, just the frog and/or the points. I wouldn't use oak for ties. In the GR issues back an article "if I had only known" was about someone who used oak to make a bridge, and it completely failed because of the way the oak absorbs water. Have a lot at it before committing your self to oak! 
Craig 

Another way to get around the soldering issue when using aluminum rail is for the frog, construct as usual just be sure to spike it together tightly and don't solder. If you want you could "JB weld" them. For points you can dill a hole through the bottom flange and use a bolt and nut to attach to the throwbar. You can also use a small nail or pin and fold it over once it passes through the throwbar. 


Craig, I have heard a lot of different ideas on wood ties. Some have told me they have had success with oak but it has to be a small tight grained oak. I really like the idea of cedar too. but all I could seem to find available would be what you say you are using fence slats. I was just worried that this might not be a great grade and want to twist or warp with time. How long have you had you switches down? How are the holding up? It's not to late for me yet!


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 03 Sep 2011 10:55 AM 
Posted By bnsfconductor on 01 Sep 2011 07:06 PM 
I haven't tried it yet but an easier solution to soldering frogs and making points (if you wanted) would be to use a nickel silver. It's more expensive but remember your not building the whole turnout, just the frog and/or the points. I wouldn't use oak for ties. In the GR issues back an article "if I had only known" was about someone who used oak to make a bridge, and it completely failed because of the way the oak absorbs water. Have a lot at it before committing your self to oak! 
Craig 

Another way to get around the soldering issue when using aluminum rail is for the frog, construct as usual just be sure to spike it together tightly and don't solder. If you want you could "JB weld" them. For points you can dill a hole through the bottom flange and use a bolt and nut to attach to the throwbar. You can also use a small nail or pin and fold it over once it passes through the throwbar. 


Craig, I have heard a lot of different ideas on wood ties. Some have told me they have had success with oak but it has to be a small tight grained oak. I really like the idea of cedar too. but all I could seem to find available would be what you say you are using fence slats. I was just worried that this might not be a great grade and want to twist or warp with time. How long have you had you switches down? How are the holding up? It's not to late for me yet!









I had my track (all laid on cedar) down for about 6 years in the Pacific Northwest area. I had to pull it all up this summer in preparation for renting our house and moving to Montana so I could go to grad school. When I pulled up the track I noticed that the older stuff (track I put down 6 years ago) was starting to rot from the bottom up, but it was still holding the rail really well. I wish had took some pictures but I didn't! I was really amazed at how well the cedar held. As a note I had my all of my track floating on compacted 1/4" minus roadbed.I think if I was going to keep my RR and not move, I would have slowly been replacing some of the older ties this next summer. But in a dryer climate they might last longer then 6 years. 

This is what I used for making ties. (I bought at a local hardware store not Lowes) 

http://www.lowes.com/pd_149376-43656-149376_?PL=1&productId=1018277 
I just dug through the piles of boards until I found ones that did not have any or very few knots and were tight grain. I never had a problem of the wood warping. When cutting ties it just makes a lot of sawdust! My next layout I build it's not going to be on the ground level so the it will be interesting to see how the ties hold up in comparison. Dipping the ties in a preservative might make them last longer. I stained all of my ties with a mixture of rubbing alcohol and black leather shoe die, but it didn't last outside to long (about 6 months), so I let them weather naturally.

Interesting idea about JB weld. I might have to try it. I never had any problems of track coming out of gauge, but some of my spikes began to loosen, but they still held the rail quite well.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the insight in to your experience. It certainly serves to dispel some of my fears. I may have to get some cedar. One thing that you mentioned and I think has a lot to do with tie longevity, is proper drainage. I have seen some layouts that you can tell that it must take days for an area to dry out. I think even in the shadiest and flattest of areas if you are willing to dig and put in some french drains beneath troublesome areas you can get things to dry pretty quickly. I would suspect the amount of ballast you prefer around you ties has some bearing on their life span. If you like the look of a spartan roadbed where a lot of the tie protrudes verses a large main line style were only tie tops are visible the would effect how long ties stay wet. Thanks again!


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