# Getting your stuff in a good museum,How to..



## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

Not everyone's cup of tea I know but a lot of us do have a wish (secret or otherwise ) to see our stuff in a museum of high reputation some day.
Here is how I did it !
Stand by one while I get organized.


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

Why am I writing on this subject ? well nothing bothers me more than seeing my fellow modelers dioramas,layouts or models etc..get throw in the garbage once they go to the "Happy Hunting (modeling) Ground,that's why !
Lets face it not everyone cares or wants models ,large or otherwise ,in their homes.After Uncle Fred or Grandpa Jones is gone many a family is stuck with the "what to do with his stuff ? " dilemma. This is especially true of large dioramas,layouts or collections of individual models.Now is the time to plan ahead and help relieve your family of this burden.One way to do this is to get your stuff in a museum before you are too far gone over the hill.
I know that I started planning for this when I was around sixty (11 years ago)and finally realized that I wasn't going to live forever. How ? well.....


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope you have found a way to do so... I have attempted to donate my doll collection to a couple of museums and gotten NOWHERE! I am beginning to think a cash endowment of 5 or more times the collection's value might get a better receiption (but if I live too long any money for an endowment will be spent).


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I did not know there were any museums that except G scale stuff or diaramas.

And quite frankly quality of anything made is subjective with likes or disslikes, making its way into a museum. AND how large would it have to be to hold all that is out there? 

Best thing to do is educate your family on prices or place them in a log so they have an idea because if your collection is large enough and it is NOT full of run of the mill stuff it should bring some return. And your family will end up with the $$ anyway. Ebay is a pretty good start.

Another option is seek out train buddies, that are known to your family and try to give or sell to them as they might have connections to clubs or such, but dealers will NOT give you crap for your stuff, so avoid them untill the very last and NO other options! 

But if it is just lower end stuff, it won't bring much anyway. 

Museums...never even thought of that.

Bubba


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's something to think about. If it's donated to a museum, then it's just a stranger's choice of what to do with it. They can store it in a damp basement, sell it, throw it away. A better option is the permanent loan scenario, where your estate or heirs retain ownership. Chances are it could still disappear, but it leaves the folks you are related to a means to reclaim it, should they desire. 

Unfortunately, most museums and hysterical societies have about 10 times more crap than display space, so unless there is some local significance attached, or easy money to be made in peddling it, or an attached endowment that more than covers it's care, they probably won't want it. 

IMO, if you family doesn't give a rip - except for the money... then give your stuff away or sell it to your friends while you are still alive, then put any money in a trust or donate it so the ne'er do wells aren't salivating as much while waiting for you to croak.


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

I guess that it all came about for me this way because I had already done the "donating it to a museum "thing years before when as executor of my fathers will it was up to me to arrange for this to be done for our beautiful '29 Beech Travel Air 4000(D4D) biplane.So contacting museums was not a big scary thing for me although there is always the "fear of rejection" thing to be dealt with.
You have to let it be known wherever you can that your stuff is available.Don't be afraid,if your stuff is good and you know it,it will get picked up.Start by saying "when my stuff goes to the museum" rather than "if my stuff goes to the museum" and your already half way there.


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 20 Aug 2011 08:13 PM 
I hope you have found a way to do so... I have attempted to donate my doll collection to a couple of museums and gotten NOWHERE! I am beginning to think a cash endowment of 5 or more times the collection's value might get a better receiption (but if I live too long any money for an endowment will be spent).



Keep trying,sometimes it is a matter of just hitting the right person.There is some luck involved with this I am afraid.


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

Posted By Madstang on 20 Aug 2011 08:55 PM 
I did not know there were any museums that except G scale stuff or diaramas.

And quite frankly quality of anything made is subjective with likes or disslikes, making its way into a museum. AND how large would it have to be to hold all that is out there? 

Best thing to do is educate your family on prices or place them in a log so they have an idea because if your collection is large enough and it is NOT full of run of the mill stuff it should bring some return. And your family will end up with the $$ anyway. Ebay is a pretty good start.

Another option is seek out train buddies, that are known to your family and try to give or sell to them as they might have connections to clubs or such, but dealers will NOT give you crap for your stuff, so avoid them untill the very last and NO other options! 

But if it is just lower end stuff, it won't bring much anyway. 

Museums...never even thought of that.

Bubba

You are right sometimes it is a matter of the person running the show but keep trying.Selling it or giving it to your buds is always an good option too.Like I said donation is not everyone s cup of tea.

G scale stuff could also be broken up into mini storyboard vignettes that wouldn't take up much room and could be really interesting.Later I will post some examples.


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

Posted By Mik on 20 Aug 2011 09:26 PM 
Here's something to think about. If it's donated to a museum, then it's just a stranger's choice of what to do with it. They can store it in a damp basement, sell it, throw it away. A better option is the permanent loan scenario, where your estate or heirs retain ownership. Chances are it could still disappear, but it leaves the folks you are related to a means to reclaim it, should they desire. 

Unfortunately, most museums and hysterical societies have about 10 times more crap than display space, so unless there is some local significance attached, or easy money to be made in peddling it, or an attached endowment that more than covers it's care, they probably won't want it. 

IMO, if you family doesn't give a rip - except for the money... then give your stuff away or sell it to your friends while you are still alive, then put any money in a trust or donate it so the ne'er do wells aren't salivating as much while waiting for you to croak. 

Yes loaning it would be a option as well but I am not too worried about my stuff once it is there .My personal challenge was just to see if I could get it there.Nothing is forever anyway!


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

When I started building large scale dioramas there was no question about what I was trying to achieve.Huge 4X6 foot dioramas only have one destination.
Besides the museum thing, my other personal goal was to model like Shep Paine ,who's work I had admired for years and years.I had heard through the grapevine that he was retiring from modeling and he had let it be known that he wanted someone else to pick up the ball and run with it for awhile.I was one of those who wanted to take up the challenge.
My options were do it and write a book about it too,when it was finished,or take a more modern approach and do the modeling in real time and post it free on as many websites as I could reasonably handle.(this aspect now takes up a good 50% of my modeling time and is not recommended for weekend modelers.)
This approach has been more than successful for me especially when I look at the number of my photobucket hits that are recorded or the kind words of my fellow modelers that are posted to my threads on the websites.
One thing I have learned though is that "you can't please all of the people all of the time" so don't even bother to try !


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

Mission Accomplished !
How do I know this ? I have three dioramas now in the Canadian Aviation and Space Museum ,our national museum in Ottawa here in Canada, and a fourth on its way this fall.
How do I know that Shep approves ? Well ..
He appraised my work for the museum and valued it ,in dollar terms , right up there with what he was getting for his best stuff years ago.
Yes Shep the ball got picked up.....


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JohnReid on 21 Aug 2011 08:58 AM 
When I started building large scale dioramas there was no question about what I was trying to achieve.Huge 4X6 foot dioramas only have one destination.
Besides the museum thing, my other personal goal was to model like Shep Paine ,who's work I had admired for years and years.I had heard through the grapevine that he was retiring from modeling and he had let it be known that he wanted someone else to pick up the ball and run with it for awhile.I was one of those who wanted to take up the challenge.
My options were do it and write a book about it too,when it was finished,or take a more modern approach and do the modeling in real time and post it free on as many websites as I could reasonably handle.(this aspect now takes up a good 50% of my modeling time and is not recommended for weekend modelers.)
This approach has been more than successful for me especially when I look at the number of my photobucket hits that are recorded or the kind words of my fellow modelers that are posted to my threads on the websites.
One thing I have learned though is that "you can't please all of the people all of the time" so don't even bother to try ! 

There's an article in the current issue of Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette about a diorama of Ridgeway CO being donated and displayed in the Ridgeway Museum. Unfortunately, there's the little matter of "museum quality" modelling - my stuff isn't up to the standard of the railroad models displayed in the gallery at the B&O RR Museum in Baltimore, on loan from the Smithsonian.

I tried once to get the Boston computer museum interested in a historic piece of gear that would have made a neat hands-on exhibit (very early voice response system.) They never called me back even after leaving 3 or 4 messages.

Your approach of posting photos on the web is fine, but it doesn't answer the question of what happens to your models when you are gone to that great railroad yard in the sky. And websites aren't forever, as I've discovered in the past. LSOL arrived, died and trashed everything, and has now resurrected itself. No telling if they'll do it again. This site just took 5 years of archives offline so they are inaccessible. Photobucket could get bought by Flickr tomorrow and it could go out of business in a heartbeat. 
My wife says it is all going in the trash when I die. I think I persuaded her that some of the live steam locos are worth a few $$ and she should get one of my pals to help her sell them!


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

A lot of the feedback that I get on this subject especially from dioramists(word?) and the RR layout guys is that there stuff can't be moved or the museums that they have already contacted have no room for such large pieces.
Have you ever thought of breaking your stuff down into small storyboard type vignettes or mini-dioramas ?
Often there are already, within the larger piece, lots of mini-dioramas going on.Why not just isolate these into a static storyboard piece that would be more acceptable in your relatives homes or interested museums ? With a little creative thinking the subject matter could be humorous or serious depending upon your interests. Later I will post a few examples of what I mean.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I thoght about and was asked about a few finescale HO items once to be on loan. All was good until we talked about their (lack of) insurance.


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

My story.

What do they want?

Getting my stuff in a museum was a personal goal on mine that was born out of my fear of rejection.Actually rejection can be a very stimulating thing if taken as a challenge.
After completing my 1/72 scale Victory model after many years of work I thought that it might be a good idea to find a permanent home for it.I really didn't want to sell it and have it go to someones basement never to see the light of day again,after all I had built it as a diorama type model for kids and the young at heart to enjoy.
I contacted many museums and none of them seemed to want just another model of HMS Victory.But mine is different, a diorama I explained but to no avail,most were only interested in sailing ship models that depicted how they were built,antique models,sailors bone models or modern subject matter without sails.
I had experienced this rejection thing before when I was wood carving, I had tried to offer my work to galleries only to be told that they wanted in-the-round stuff, not relief carving like I was doing at the time ,as it wasn't really art.I took up the "in the round" style but this was rejected too because the subject matter was birds.And besides it was wood and not bronze or stone.
So I sat myself down and realized that if I wanted to achieve my museum goal it was going to take some planning on my part.To find out what they wanted I would have to research what had already been accepted, so I took one of the best the Smithsonian ,as my guide.First I noticed that 1/16th scale seemed to be the scale that they were looking for, as most of their single subject model were in that scale.Next I noticed that they had already broken the ice and had accepted dioramas,modified plastic kit models ,and models in smaller scales if they were dioramas.But mine would be different, mine would be dioramas in 1/16th scale that were meant for museums that otherwise couldn't be displayed in your average home setting.
I also noticed that the models were mostly all donated by the builder for the pure joy of having them accepted, I am sure.
While doing this research I had noticed that my local hobby store had 1/16th wood model kits for sale.Their other specialty happened to be doll houses.
Well that got me to thinking, why not marry up the two and call the dollhouse a hangar.I have never seen that before and here was my opportunity to add something new to our art form.
I also quickly realized that this idea could be expensive for me to undertake,the cost of this stuff is not cheap.Luckily during my woodcarving days I had accumulated, over the years, most of the tools and raw materials that would be required.However the kits alone would be a major expense, especially in the quantities that I required,so I decided to buy them only as I needed them.
Lighting and ease of maintenance are also important considerations,in order to make their job as easy as possible.

How to get it in ?
Number one,let it be known that your stuff is available ,network and don't listen to nay sayers that say it can't be done.
Be proud of your stuff and display it locally or put it up on the web wherever or however you can. Sell yourself.Know that your stuff is good, and don't be afraid to let others know that you know it is.Be confident that if your stuff is as good as you think it is,it will get picked up.Don't be afraid to get yourself called a publicity seeker or ego maniac ,if you don't believe in yourself how can you expect others to do so.
Contact the museum directly and if possible speak to someone that has Arts training.These people can be you best friend and if they like your stuff, they will sell it for you to their colleagues and the higher ups in the chain of command.
Think big and go for the well recognized museums first.You may just surprise yourself and get in.
Donate your stuff and forget about money but don't forget that some museums will give you a personal tax break if you ask for it.Even then don't expect to get more for your stuff than your personal expenses,remember most museums are on very tight budgets today. Good luck !


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

*Goal #2* My goal number two,picking up the ball and running with it for awhile.
When Shep Paine let it be known that he was retiring from active model making and was hoping that others would pick up the diorama ball and run with it for awhile, unbeknown to him I volunteered ,as I am sure many others did.
This may sound like I am comparing my work to his but nothing is farther from the truth.Even today ,I still have a long way to go.His painting and modifying of kit figures is in a class by itself.No,what I mean is his creativity and his courage to try new things,which I have always very highly admired.That is the ball that I wanted to run with.Therefore ,I will just let my work speak for itself.


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

Wrong post.


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## JohnReid (Aug 31, 2010)

I have been asked why do I not write a book about my stuff and stop cluttering up the forums with "How to...." ?
My reasoning is basically as follows.
I consider the art of the diorama, just that an art.Art is a living thing and anything you may contribute only is relevant for a short time.The important thing is not the finished piece that your work represents but the influence that it may have others imaginations while you were contributing your little bit to the evolution of the art form that you are involved with.Artists have always been influenced by their peers and always will be but it all is constantly evolving in new and wonderful ways.
Most "how to's... are out of date sometimes before they are even written.The only contribution you can really make to your art form is in the here and now. If I can reach the imagination of just one other artist ,especially a young imagination and they are influenced by my work, and then they build upon it and add their contribution and pass it on, then it has all been worthwhile.That is the same reason why I donate my work to museums where they will be seen, and later if they are sold off the money will go back to support the museum so that future artists will have the same opportunity to influence the young minds of their generation.
However today we have a new way to influence things.Even if someone acquires your stuff and puts it in his basement never again to see the light of day,by your having used the internet to get your ideas out there it really doesn't matter anymore as your have already accomplished your goals.


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## catherine yronwode (Oct 9, 2013)

I just found this brilliant thread. First, i want to thank John Reid for writing it. 

Next, i want to parse his content versus some of those who responded to him. I find this important. He had a goal, he had skill and dedication to his task, he figured out how to overcome his fear of rejection. He modified his work methods and his subject matter to make accomplishing the goal more likely. He used both old and new technologies (including the internet) to assist in making many people aware of his skills and talents and to further his objective.

The biggest problem i see in comparing the goal of having one's dioramas in a museum versus preserving a garden railway is the question of weather and entropy. Garden railways do decay. Unless an individual, a family, or a club take on their maintenance, they will rot and rust away, just as will any historic building or locomotive. Few museums have enough roofed space to cover a G-Scale layout. The issue of museum donation thus primarily applies to dioramas and indoor layouts, i believe

I have been in small county museums that do include HO or O scale layouts of historical (local, regional, or thematic) interest -- with or without running trains. Some of the exhibits consist primarily of models of local landmark buildings and it is noted that they were originally built for use on a model train layout -- but only the buildings are shown, or the trains are static while on display. 

As John and others mentioned, there is a line to be drawn between model-building and buying a whole lot of what most museum directors would perceive to be "mixed media children's toys." 

We need to be honest with ourselves. 

Is my cute garden layout, featuring Bachmann Annies and Danbury Mint die cast trucks and a whole lot of amazing scratch-built structures really "museum quality"? 

Certainly it photographs well now ... but after ten years in nature, will even the best and most hand-made parts of it still be "museum quality"? 

And are there actually museums that care about gardens? 

The answer to these questions is "mostly no and probably not." 

Garden art is perishable. It always has been. Only the photos remain. So take as many as you can! Those are your heritage. 

Now lets talk about photos and the decentralization of image-banking.

First, get the best camera you can afford, even if it is just a smart phone.

Second, film both stills and videos. 

Third, include descriptions of what is in the pictures when you post them online.

Now to address a point brought up due to the disappearance of LSOL, and the subsequent loss of its archives. This forum too has recently been sold, and if it had not been, its many accumulated archives of text and photos would have been lost as well. 

Do web sites disappear? Only if you and your heirs don't own them. Do not rely on free or low-cost services to store and display your photos. Including this one. They do go away -- and when they do, your archive goes away with them.

Instead, buy a web domain and upload your material there. Pay for ten years of registration renewal and web hosting. Post the site's registration and hosting information, expiration date, login, and password on a note where your heirs can find it. Put aside money in a bank account to pay for the next ten years -- or more -- of registration and hosting after your demise. 

Make it known to your heirs that you wish your site to remain online and that if they cannot pay the upkeep, you would like them to contact people from a list of folks, who may be able to take on the very small financial cost of re-registration and hosting out of love for the hobby. 

Make it also known to your friends and club(s) that you wish your site to remain online and send each of them the entire contents of the site on a thumb drive or CD so that it can be re-uploaded if it goes down due to negligence on the part of your heirs. Make MULTIPLE copies and put the names and contact information for each person in the list that you send to all. 

We may not be able to preserve a large garden layout against entropic damage by donating it to a museum, but when it comes to the art of photography, WE ARE EACH OUR OWN MUSEUMS in this brave new world of the internet. 

A word to the wise is sufficient, i hope.

cat yronwode
East Tennessee and Western Northern California RR
"The Shortest Route Between Johnson City and Forestville"


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I love your "Manfred von Richthoven" diorama John. Not all of us are museum-quality modelers, but you sure are.


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