# LGB 20283 Mogul Steam Locomotive - Underweight



## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

Hello Fellow LGB Trains Hobbyists - If you're thinking of buying the newly produced and beautiful LGB 20283 Mogul Steamer, you'll probably need to add some weights to the engine to improve its traction/pulling power. See my email to Marklin/LGB Service Department below.

"Hello Marklin/LGB Customer Service – A long-standing customer of mine who recently bought from me an LGB 20283 Mogul says that the locomotive has poor traction/pulling power with 4-axle LGB passenger train cars using metal wheels……..the locomotive’s wheels spin in-place when starting to move, and sometimes the locomotive derails on track curves.

The approximate weight of all LGB Mogul locomotives produced since 1985, such as the LGB 29182 Mogul locomotive, is 7 pounds My customer weighed the LGB 20283 locomotive and it’s only 5 pounds. So it’s highly likely the LGB 20283 is seriously unweight and that’s causing the poor traction and pulling power of the locomotive. The metal weight in the LGB 20283 locomotive’s front smokebox/boiler has been reduced to make space for the installed pulsed smoker, but that removed material has not been repositioned within the smokebox/boiler. Additionally, the metal material now used in all LGB locomotives weighs less than lead material previously used. As a result, the LGB 20283 locomotive weighs 2 pounds less than older LGB Moguls, and this weight loss is causing the traction/pulling power problem.

Recommendation: The metal weight in the LGB 20283 and future LGB Mogul products needs to be redesigned to increase the weight back to 7 pounds so the locomotive will have adequate traction/pulling power. And the redesigned Mogul weight should be produced ASAP and placed into Marklin’s LGB Parts Inventory System so that LGB Service Centers and LGB hobbyists can order replacement weights for correcting the LGB 20283 Mogul locomotive’s traction/pulling power deficiency. This is an important quality improvement action required to ensure LGB locomotives will continue their high reliability reputation and purchase and use by large G scale trains hobbyists."

Thomas White
Old Dominion Railways - LGB Trains
McLean VA USA


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

Funny that your "Beloved" LGB Mogul at 5 pounds of weight has trouble pulling that train.
Our Bachmann "Annies" (4-6-0's) regularly pull up to 6 or more LGB 4 axle passenger cars without additional weight added, and their centre drivers don't even touch the rails, and that's not on level track. I guess LGB in their GREAT (?) wisdom have stopped adding their traction tires to the Mogul's drivers. Bachman doesn't use traction tires...go figure....and LGB Prices are beyond reason, in my opinion...others are free to differ...
Our ten wheelers are also carrying a load of batteries in their tenders...and the R/C receivers too...
Fred Mills


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think you missed the point that the weight reduction of this particular loco is an issue.

comparing the Bachmann to the LGB, while an interesting discussion, is not the point here, but the changes LGB made to an existing loco.

(p.s. I think your layout is also flat, without grades)


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

I didn't miss the point....I was just passing on an opinion, as stated.
I did address the "Problem" when I "Suggested" that LGB may have neglected to include "TRACTION TIRES" on their latest edition of their MOGUL. It was not mentioned whether there were traction tires on the locomotive in question, or not. Not having them on a three axle, unsprung drive train, would cause much loss of traction power, especially with the middle axle contacting the rail.
So, Mr. Elmassian; pardon me for cutting in on your area of expertise.
Our railroad here, is anything but "Flat" our grades can be up to 3% in places, and some on curves.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, it was the out of the blue comparison to the Bachmann injected into the thread on an LGB locomotive and changes to it.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

Fr.Fred said:


> Funny that your "Beloved" LGB Mogul at 5 pounds of weight has trouble pulling that train.
> Our Bachmann "Annies" (4-6-0's) regularly pull up to 6 or more LGB 4 axle passenger cars without additional weight added, and their centre drivers don't even touch the rails, and that's not on level track. I guess LGB in their GREAT (?) wisdom have stopped adding their traction tires to the Mogul's drivers. Bachman doesn't use traction tires...go figure....and LGB Prices are beyond reason, in my opinion...others are free to differ...
> Our ten wheelers are also carrying a load of batteries in their tenders...and the R/C receivers too...
> Fred Mills


Fred - The new LGB Moguls do have one traction tire on one of the rear wheels sets. By the way, some Mogul models produced by the former LGB company had two rear traction tires on the rear wheels set. I don't know why this added a second traction tire on those models. So, besides adding more weight to the new Mogul, adding a second traction tire to the rear wheels set could provide additional traction power.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

Here's an update on the Mogul issue:
Marklin responded to my email complaint about the Mogul's traction and pulling power issue and they replied: "After consultation with our quality assurance department, the locomotive can pull up to 2,900 g at a maximum gradient of 5%. If this does not work with your model, we assume it is an individual case and you must send us the locomotive with a good description of the error." I provided this Marklin response to a person who was a technical consultant for the former LGB company in Germany who now lives in the USA and repairs LGB locomotives. He states: "I have found an article of Garden Railways and a guy named Bill Zuback measured the pulling power of 16oz on a level track. That is quite a different story to that what Maerklin told! I think 2.9 kg is more than wishful thinking. Or their measuring procedure is different. Maybe they mean that the engine can pull a weight of 2.9 kg on a 5% grade and this weight is easily reached with 3 cars. But I still doubt that. The fact that the engine derails in curves points to a center of gravity that is way to far in the rear (because the weight was removed from the front). Maybe I will call the [Marklin Customer Service] lady on Monday."

I also contacted my Massoth supplier in Germany about the unweight problem with the new Mogul and he was already aware of it, and advises the fix is to add 2 pounds of weight back into the Mogul. So, that's the solution for hobbyists who own one of these new Moguls, but Marklin needs to recognize they've seriously unweighted the Mogul and needs to fix it for their future productions. It also seems to be a systemic issue for some of the other LGB locomotives they're producing except for the ones constructed of metal.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

Update: I'm helping my customer who bought one of these new Moguls from me to fix the under-weight problem. I measured the space available in one of my Moguls inside the smoke box in front of the pulsed smoker, and in the rear of the boiler. I then took a used Mogul lead weight I bought on eBay last year and cut two pieces that would fit in both locations. I sent those two pieces along with some 1 oz self-stick automobile wheel weights to my customer for him to install. The self-stick weights can be fitted inside the smokebox around the pulsed smoker and inside the front-end of the boiler. The lead pieces I cut weigh about 1 pound, so add as many as possible of the self-stick weights to the smokebox and front boiler. See the below photos. 

There are only four screws that hold the Mogul's smokebox/boiler and cab onto the motor block. And then you can pull off the smokebox and add the weights. If you remove the existing zinc weight inside this new Mogul, you could even add more weight to the center of it.


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## DanielBrasil (Oct 19, 2019)

Well my 1988 Mogul can pull 10+ plastic wheeled cars in a 3% gradient uphill, so something is not right as the new one has a much improved motor as far as i know. My model has two traction tires. I run straight DC and only have wide curves i guess this makes a difference too.


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## Turbo4whl (5 mo ago)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I think you missed the point that the weight reduction of this particular loco is an issue.
> 
> comparing the Bachmann to the LGB, while an interesting discussion, is not the point here, but the changes LGB made to an existing loco.
> 
> (p.s. I think your layout is also flat, without grades)


I agree with you Greg. Although I am new to this forum I read several truck forums. On one of them the hate posts are usually unwarranted. 

@LGB333$$$$ 
Thanks for posting this info. Good to know for someone like me getting back into garden railroading.


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