# 1:22.5 and 1:29 size comparison



## ARGluck (Jan 30, 2018)

As a build a few locomotives I've been itching to get a few already made so I'm not just staring at parts...so many parts.

I've searched a round a lot, through pics, forum posts, etc and I'm finding examples but was hoping before I make such an investment if someone could point me to a place with a 1:22.5 to 1:29 size comparison with pics. This is just my last step before making a large investment so I really appreciate the help.

I don't really care much for accuracy and all that I more just want my stuff to look right standing side by side.

I will mostly focus on American style trains but I really want some LGB stuff for the quality and longevity. Probably just a Stainz or Caterpillar or maybe I'll grab one of their starter sets used off Ebay.

Also while I'm here, is the Piko Mogul closer to 1:22 or 1:29? Again, same basic idea, I want my eventual 1:29 stuff to look ok with the few random things I pick up.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

They mix well together. The 1:22.5 being predominantly used by LGB to represent narrow gauge trains common in Germany and Austria, the Stainz being Austrian. The 1:29th being used mostly by USA trains and Aristocraft/REA for American standard gauge on the same track, but even that ratio isnt correct for the track gauge but has a greater "WOW" factor over the correct 1:32nd scale which is correct for standard gauge trains on 45mm gauge track. Only when one mixes say a modern smooth side grain hopper next to say, a LGB Mogul, does the size really stand out. I can pull my LGB rolling stock with a 16mm scale live steamer from Roundhouse and it looks fine. I can pull some of the older style beer reefers from USA trains with an LGB Mogul and it looks ok, same for older 1:24th stuff from Delton and Kalamazoo/Hartland Trains. Back in the early days, there was several scale ratios and it never got any better as the years went on. LGB tended to have a "rubber" ruler and mixed scale purportions to fit thier rule that everything go around R1 curves, which were very common in the early days of garden railroads in the USA and necessary in many UK and European gardens due to small spaces . Wish I had some pics, but I dont. Hopefully someone will post a few. Mike the Aspie


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

GO to this MyLargeScale page:

http://forums.mylargescale.com/29-beginner-s-forum/5787-l-g-b-scale.html

scroll down to the post by ScottyChaos of 12-10-2008, 08:46 AM and click the link in that posting.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

AR;

The size of the prototype equipment can really throw a monkey wrench into the mix. In the photo below, the locomotive is rendered in the relatively large scale of 1:20.3. The beer can tank car is in 1:29 scale. The locomotive was actually a relatively tiny industrial service narrow gauge switcher, sometimes called a "critter." The beer can tank car is a fairly small standard gauge freight car, modeled in a smaller scale relationship than the locomotive, but notice how the tank car dwarfs the locomotive. 









Sometimes one has to eyeball things to see whether they are a good match.

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## ARGluck (Jan 30, 2018)

Thanks for the info. The picture switcher and car make me worry.

Lets says we have a LGB Stainz, Piko 2-6-0 Mogul, and an USA trains GP-38 side by side. Will I noticed much of a difference?

I guess I'm a little less worried about rolling stock because at least it's costing me much less though the worry is still there.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB and Piko locomotives are models of narrow gauge equipment, and were relatively small to begin with. The USA GP38 is from more recent times, it is standard gauge, and has relatively generous proportions. It should look large next to the two narrow gauge locomotives, even though it is in a smaller scale.

Scott Lawrence's comparison illustration is really helpful for comparing both the prototypes and the various "large" modeling scales. Click on the link to see it. http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/Large-scale-scales2.gif

Hope this helps,
David Meashey


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## ARGluck (Jan 30, 2018)

Dave,
Sorry I meant to mention I had seen the picture before but I accidentally closed the tab and when I rewrote it I neglected to type that again. Sorry for making you post it twice.

I guess then I'd be OK with those 3 trains as I want the GP38 to look larger. I understand the other two are narrow gauge I just wasn't sure if they're look too large next to the GP38 because of their scale.

Now rolling stock scale seems like a whole new issue...


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

ARGluck said:


> I guess then I'd be OK with those 3 trains as I want the GP38 to look larger. I understand the other two are narrow gauge I just wasn't sure if they're look too large next to the GP38 because of their scale.


I think a very brief history of Large Scale might help.

LGB started this in 1968 with Narrow Gauge equipment scaled roughly at 1:22,5 running on 45mm track which equates to Meter gauge at that scale.
So scale and gauge matched at that point.

Large Scale business took off, so Aristocraft and USA Trains decided to get into the business.
They decided that American prototype standard gauge products would sell better in the US than the mostly European products LGB had so they both initially came out with a few US standard gauge box cars.
Since people already had layouts with 45mm track and narrow gauge equipment (which in real life is smaller than standard gauge equipment, both Aristocraft and USA Trains came out with a few *standard* gauge boxcars that ran on 45mm track and were the same size (as a model) as the LGB narrow gauge boxcars.
That way these new Aristocraft and USAT boxcars could run in the same consist as the already existing LGB boxcars and it would all look fine together - a straight business decision.
It was only a couple of years after the US prototype Large Scale took off that the new manufacturers went back and came up with the scale of 1:29 when they compared the size of a standard gauge prototype boxcar to the models they had created copying the LGB 1:22.5 scale narrow gauge boxcar.
So initially the intent was to make the standard gauge US models the same model size as the narrow gauge models even though in reality a narrow gauge boxcar is a lot smaller than a standard gauge boxcar.
Things have of course evolved since then, but 1:29 scale stuck for Large Scale standard gauge running on 45mm track.

If you really want to run both narrow gauge and standard gauge on the same layout at the same time and you want the scale ratios to be correct, you have to pick one scale and adjust the gauge and size of rolling stock accordingly.
Most people run either narrow gauge or standard gauge; and if they mix them they make sure the rolling stock fits well together sizewise.

I run mostly Swiss RhB and some German Harz - they are both Meter gauge in the prototype, so their scale of 1:22.5 and 45mm gauge track works perfectly.
I'm also getting as few standard gauge cars as loads for the narrow gauge roll cars that carry standard gauge freight cars. Those cars willstill be in scale of 1:22.5 but will be larger since they are scaled down from a standard gauge freight car and the track gauge is 64mm which is the correct standard gauge scaled down by a factor of 22.5.
Lucky for me, I can but these 64mm gauge freight cars so I don't have to build my own.

I hope this is not too confusing and helps you understand how Large Scale ended up with multiple scales.


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## Michael789 (Sep 3, 2016)

I say run what looks good to you. I have seen larger LGB F7's (I believe 1:25 scale?) with Piko roughly 1:32 hoppers behind it. Not the best look, but if you put a flatcar or 2 between them you wont notice it much. That is one of the bigger differences I have seen. 

I believe Piko and LGB oversize the steam engines a little because many real life steam locos were not that big. Modern diesels dwarf them in size. (Please don't mention Challengers and larger steam... I'm talking about smaller models like what LGB and Piko American products are.) Though some of those newer Piko European steam locos are getting to be bigger locos! (and nicely detailed too... some even have real Buhler motors, even after EVERYONE else no longer uses them.)

I have been told the Piko regular cupola caboose is a 1:22.5 scale caboose. The real thing must have been quite small! It looks fine next to most brand products.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

ARGluck said:


> Thanks for the info. The picture switcher and car make me worry.
> 
> Lets says we have a LGB Stainz, Piko 2-6-0 Mogul, and an USA trains GP-38 side by side. Will I noticed much of a difference?
> 
> I guess I'm a little less worried about rolling stock because at least it's costing me much less though the worry is still there.


Where would you see a Stainz and a GP-38 next to each other.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike;

I think he just means the models. It would be very difficult with the prototypes.

Regards,
David Meashey


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

ARGluck:

Great software tool:

Handy Converter for Model Railroaders:
https://stanstrains.com/SoftwareHandyConverter.htm


Here's another site with a really good and practical way to compare scales:

Sizes of model trains or model train scales:
[url]https://dfarq.homeip.net/sizes-of-model-trains/#ixzz56ugVLeM6[/URL]


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Take a look at a real mixed freight today. You will see many different car heights, lengths and weight capacities. Much of this is when they were built. My point different sized cars can go together. You just need to run what you like the look of.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

ARGluck, did you ever "decide" on your scale preference?

You also referred to building locomotives, just curious as to what types, and if any pictures, we are always interested to see these things.

Greg - 78


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