# How to Model Chain Hardware for Logging Flatbed?



## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay, it's another basic question...

I've got several flatcars, and some styrofoam 'logs' I want to put on them. But prototypically speaking, what holds the chain down? And what's the best way to model it?

More details: I've got two A MS (Accucraft) 1/20.3 flats, and a Bachmann 1/20.3 as well. The Bachmann has stakes & pockets. The pictures I've seen so far are unclear about how the chains holding the logs in place are fastened to the flatcar. In some pics, there seem to be small winches, kind of like a come-along, attaching the chain to the frame. Can you get this kind of detail item from Ozark or Trackside?

Thanks in advance,


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Most of the flat cars I've seen used for carrying logs are fitted with some sort of log bunk. If you want to take the high road, Ozark Miniatures sells a pair of Hercules Log Bunks *here*. These required no chains over the logs themselves as the bunks held the logs securely. This is the type of bunk used on the Accucraft Skeleton Log Cars. In reality, they were used throughout the logging industry.

You could also fab something up from strip wood.

If you want to use chains, Ozark also sells a set of *chain binders* used to tighten the chains.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Looks like short stakes in the pockets and the chain tighteners/adjusters were hooked to the bottom of the sill or the chains went across underneath.
Some folk use the pockets to attach the adjusters to the body.

There were many stories of logs falling off trains in the woods when chains would break

John


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary

You may find the following of use and interest.









Seattle Car and Foundry Co. Catalogue No. 503 (PDF 9.67MB)[/b]


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow,it looks like I've got a lot to learn! Dwight & John, thanks for the help! Steve, that catalog is tremendous!

Before, if somebody talked about logging bunks, I 'd imagine the type with the high side arms, so they looked maybe like a slingshot? Ozark's bunks are clearly quite different. And it seems to me that they might be used in conjunction with chain binders, rather than instead of. Maybe that makes me a belt AND suspenders kind of guy?

I also looked for Wikipedia images, which led to several pix of smaller scale models. Looks like there were several ways to use the chains. I was thinking that there was a generalized 'best practice', but maybe I should decide what logging line to use as a prototype and research that. Any further suggestions, drawings, pix of your owbn logging flats, etc. would be greatly appreciated as research continues!

Again, thanks guys!


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary

I'm no expert on the subject, but if you look at the picture that John (Totalwrecker) posted, notice that the chains that secure the lower logs in the pyramidal stacking run over those logs. While the upper most log lying at the top rests on top of the chains causing any slack in them to be taken up. After seeing this same thing in many photographs I've arrived at the conclusion that this was a common practice of helping to keep the chains tight too.









Here is a link that may be of help in your research.









University of Washington - Digital Collections - Logging Search Value[/b]


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Remember logging bunks and other things are basically chocks to keep the logs from rolling. If you want to keep your car or trailer from rolling, how high a chock do you use? The critical thing is to fill the lowest level as full as possible so the logs do not have room to roll and pick up momentum. Given enough room the log will just roll over the bunk. 

Some of the log cars have adjustable chocks for just this reason. If the chock is tight it works. 

Hope this helps.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary - The Hercules bunk is made from a steel i-beam. One chock is fixed to one end and the other slides. A chain runs through the bunk itself and is affixed to the sliding chock, and there is a keyhole shaped cutout in the steel through which the chain passes on the fixed chock end. The chain can be "unlocked" by pulling the links into the round part of the keyhole. The chain is pulled to adjust the sliding chock on each end of the car so they make firm contact with the bottom logs to prevent them from rolling off. Once the desired chock position is achieved, the chain is pulled into the "slot" of the keyhole, thus locking it in position. A second shorter chain with a hook is on the keyhole fixed-chock end. Once the tensioning chain is locked into the keyhole, the hook is slipped over a link just outside the keyhole to act as a second locking mechanism - an additional safety feature. Once the train gets to the log dump, the chocks would be released and the logs would roll off into the log pond. The Hercules Bunk therefore requires no chain over the load. 

On other types of non-Hercules Bunk cars where the chocks are fixed on each end, chains over the loads were common. Sometimes a chain was used over the entire load and chain binders used to tension them. Other times, it was common practice to chain over the bottom logs and allow the weight of the upper logs to act as chain tensioners. As the upper logs sat in the "valleys" between the lower logs, they would depress the chain into these "valleys" and thereby tension them against the lower logs. The "valleys" themselves acted as chocks for the upper logs.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dwight, I even was able to see the chain coming out through the bunk on one of the pix that I found. I think I'm finally getting my head around the mechanics of the design.

So here's the next question - a cosmetic one. If these beams are steel, not iron, what color should they be? Rusted? Painted black, or red oxide, or...?

Seems like there's always a next question! But then, that's one of the things I like about this hobby..


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

They were often painted if the car itself was painted, but they're naturally going to get scuffed up pretty good from the logs. I used Ozark white metal bunks, and I've had good results with Blacken-It on white metal. The part comes out a rusty brown if you leave it in the solution for a bit. Experimenting with it will let you get the results you want.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I've been wondering how those Hercules log bunks work myself. I have 3 skeleton cars that I built last year, but I don't have any details on them yet. I was trying to figure out how to build those Hercules bunks, but it would probably be easier to just buy them.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Amber, I ordered a couple of pair and they're supposed to show up Monday. I'm trying to get them done for the Sacto Steamup in a week & 1/2 -- I'll let you know how it goes!


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