# The Art of the Slow Speed Live Steam Run



## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

There have been video clips posted to various live steam topics that show the "Art of the Slow Speed Live Steam Run". 

It would be nice if there were a sort of collection of live steam locomotive videos where the "entry qualification" is that you can see the motion of the piston and valve rods. Not just a blur of wheels and rods at 100 mph. 

This video is from the second run of my brand new Accucraft American 4-4-0 D & RG #101 Col. Boone at the Aug. 4th run of Steamin' at Steve's. No control here. The butane fuel tank ran empty which resulted in a nice low speed end to the run.



My apologies for the jet blast at the end. That was courtesy of Southwest Airlines.


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Sailor Don, Here is a slow runby of my recently built Regner TSSD Compound Mallet, running in compound mode. 




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAc3BiJNJJE 

Hope you like it.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

I'll have to wait until I get home to check YouTube videos. My employer blocked YouTube (etc.) on the office internet connection. Can't imagine why.









I'm lucky he hasn't blocked the MLS website.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Don, it is obvious that you are having way too much fun running your new engine. These 4-4-0s have real nice stack talk when run slow, and seem to be able to pull heavier loads than the prototype. A great engine. 
Keep an eye on the wristpins (that connect the front of the mainrods to the crossheads). Some of them have failed due to the original crosshead design; that's why Cliff supplies free retro kits. Mine continue to be OK, since I replaced the pins, based on Gordon Watson's design. But, I got the replacements from Cliff while still available, just in case. 
My 4-4-0 now has a Kadee coupler added to the pilot, and this afternoon when some guys come over to run I am going to see how it tracks running in reverse with its train. 

Larry 

Larry


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

I gave the Mallet another little run in the afternoon sunshine today


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's my Bark Box-equipped K-27 starting a heavy train at Andy Brauer's steamup last month...


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

In this video (please excuse the choppiness due to dirty head) are examples of realistic freight speeds. One can tell the slow realistic speed vs the"flying asters" in the last portion of the clip. If you can read the information on the cars then that is freight speed otherwise it is fast passenger or express speed.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Sailor Don
Look what you started.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Another SG start....


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay I know it ain't slow but they beauuuuutiful,


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## trainmax (Feb 16, 2008)

WOW thats the best sound I have every heard coming from a K-27!

Good work Richard


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is my 4-4-0 running slow with a light load of ball bearing equipped freight.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

That is an impressive collection of low speed live steam runs! Thanks guys.

The 3 that impressed me the most are

1. Daylight Express starting on a .6% grade. I've never seen that before. I can imagine the real one double heading up the grade at San Luis Obispo when I watched that video clip. Is that GS-4 an Aster or Accucraft? I can't tell them apart.

2. Steve S.'s Aster Berkshire starting up with wheel slip is really great. I turned up the volume but I still didn't get much stack talk. If that were my Harley Davidson motorcycle, I'd put some loud pipes on that puppy.









3. Kovac's Accucraft 4-4-0 is really nice at slow speed "see the motion". Of course I am prejudiced since I own a similar live steamer.









There are no losers here. It's just good, better, and more better.

Thanks guys. I'm really enjoying.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

If Charles could add a cylinder blow down to the start of his GS-4 Daylight Express run, it would closely resemble the real thing of the Pershing Class 2-8-0 of the Texas State Railroad.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Don
That is a compliment, " Is that GS-4 an Aster or Accucraft?" Actually, it is a reftrofitted Accucraft GS4 by Ryan and Jeff of TRS. One easy way is to look at the drivers with stars is Accucraft or the engine hand rails- silver is Aster there are several other differences visually.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 14 Aug 2009 08:57 PM 
Actually, it is a reftrofitted Accucraft GS4 by Ryan and Jeff of TRS. 
Is it the alcohol or butane Accucraft? How much retrofitting?


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually Don, it's not an 'art' as we do it all the time on my railroad. If you can make it next time, probably this Fall, you can see a lot of slow speed running.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Here are some more examples.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Don
The best cylinder show we have is the Berkshire:











Actually, if we could duplicate that sound of the steam pressure when clearing the cylinders our GS4 would sound like this( goes very well with this topic):




The Accucraft GS4 in the video is butane fired. It has improved steam lines, cylinder ports, exhaust lines, combination levers and much more. Check out our website the retrofit section, there is a link to modifications on this and the numerous other Accucraft GS4's both gas and alcohol.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Charles, 

Thanks for the GS-4 Daylight Express cylinder blowdown. I'm no expert at this, but didn't the engineer do an exceptionally long blowdown in that start up sequence? I wonder if the last part of that was "just for show".


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By jfrank on 14 Aug 2009 09:35 PM 
Actually Don, it's not an 'art' as we do it all the time on my railroad. .


John,

Thanks for the excellent slow speed live steam video clips.









I have to disagree with you on the 'art' issue. Running live steam models at low speed is an art. The point being, anyone can turn on the fuel to the max, light the fire, wait for the boiler to build up pressure to the max (like when the safety valve is continuously blowing off steam), put the direction lever in forward, and open the throttle to the max. Let 'er rip. 200 mph. If the engine is out of tune, it might only go 100 mph in a blur of rods, wheels and ..... But it still runs. 

But to keep a live steam model locomotive at an "idle", without stalling and starting, jerking to a halt, etc. ..... now that's an _art_ in balancing fuel, steam pressure and throttle. Sort of like the real deal, don't you think? Of course we don't have the full control of variable valve timing while running, but there are enough variables to make model live steam interesting.

Just because you "do it all the time" at John's Place doesn't make it any less of an art.







(and I'm not referring to Art G.)


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Don
You can be the judge.....seems to be part of Doyle's routine as one looks at the various videos (keep in mind that this is a huge 4-8-4 locomotive):


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Here's a video clip of 2 Aster Big Boys at Steamin At Steve's on Dec. 27, 2007.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Larry Green on 14 Aug 2009 07:21 AM 
Hi Don, it is obvious that you are having way too much fun running your new engine. Definitely way too much fun with the new 4-4-0, so yesterday I bought this brand new "Bad Boy" (since I couldn't afford an Aster Big Boy).


















It sure ain't live steam, but it is definitely another case of way too much fun!


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Don, I don't know about it being an art, but radio control certainly helps and adds to the fun. All of my rod engines are rc. Both Dennis' and my new 4-4-0's are rc and we can make them just walk. My suggestion is that you get one of the new Spektrum RC units and fix yours up and convert the Sandy River also by just replacing the receiver. You can mail order them or get them at the RC Hobbies store in Sugarland. Most of the Aster locomotives you see are passenger or fast freight engines and they have to run at track speed in order for the axle pump to keep up. They will run slow for a while, but then the water starts to get too low. Accucraft's 1:20.3 ng stuff seems to be tuned to run much slower. Most of them don't have axle pumps so you have to make water stops. Roundhouse engines seem more comfortable running a little bit faster. Like your new motorcycle.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

John,

I know I need proper R/C for the Sandy River #24. The glitches make the runs somewhat uncertain. R/C for the Baldwin 4-4-0 would be nice too.

Now all I have to do is find the time to do all that stuff.

It's going to take me about 6 hours to install the forward controls on my new motorcycle. I can't ride it like it is. My legs are too long. So priorities right now are motorcycle first, live steam second.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/v/CSyMq0xEaqE&hl=en&fs=1&"> name="allowFullScreen" value="true">


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SailorDon on 15 Aug 2009 07:08 AM 
Posted By jfrank on 14 Aug 2009 09:35 PM 
Actually Don, it's not an 'art' as we do it all the time on my railroad. .


John,

Thanks for the excellent slow speed live steam video clips.









I have to disagree with you on the 'art' issue. Running live steam models at low speed is an art. The point being, anyone can turn on the fuel to the max, light the fire, wait for the boiler to build up pressure to the max (like when the safety valve is continuously blowing off steam), put the direction lever in forward, and open the throttle to the max. Let 'er rip. 200 mph. If the engine is out of tune, it might only go 100 mph in a blur of rods, wheels and ..... But it still runs. 

But to keep a live steam model locomotive at an "idle", without stalling and starting, jerking to a halt, etc. ..... now that's an _art_ in balancing fuel, steam pressure and throttle. Sort of like the real deal, don't you think? Of course we don't have the full control of variable valve timing while running, but there are enough variables to make model live steam interesting.

Just because you "do it all the time" at John's Place doesn't make it any less of an art.







(and I'm not referring to Art G.)


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Just because you "do it all the time" at John's Place doesn't make it any less of an art.







(and I'm not referring to Art G.)









Don are you implying that Art G. does not apply art to his engine running.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, "sort of the real deal" has more to do with operations rather than either fast or slow. Secondly, running fast(as in fast freight or high speed passenger) also takes the"art of engineering" as one cannot just build pressure, crack the throttle and off the engine goes. A good engineer must maintain proper fire (especially if coal fired), water level and boiler pressure throughout the schedule. Just wondering how many lack the "art" of balance a bypass, throttle setting along with managing a 150lbs of train running a prototypical speed. As mentioned before there is a limitation of design that requires water input given we are not utilizing injectors.

I have seen too many "artisans" who could not keep a fast freight or passenger locomotive going for more than one lap due to lost of fire, out of water situations. So in some ways running slow is much easier especially with RC and the fine control it offers.

As to having an engine run 100 smph "out of tune" probably but the wear and tear on those moving parts will result in a premature breakdown. BTW- Do not underestimate the design required to run 200+ smph as not too many have be tuned and balanced well enough to achieve this (kinda of like the real deal did to establish speed records and performance output).


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 15 Aug 2009 06:25 PM 
Actually, "sort of the real deal" has more to do with operations rather than either fast or slow. Secondly, running fast(as in fast freight or high speed passenger) also takes the"art of engineering" as one cannot just build pressure, crack the throttle and off the engine goes. 
I never ment to infer that imitating the "real deal" had anything to do with operations. In this topic, I was just talking low speed, nothing else.

Your video clip of the highly retrofitted Accucraft GS-4 Daylight Express running at 200 mph (1:00 min into the clip) seems to be blowing off significant amounts of steam at the safety valve (implying max. pressure). I wasn't there, so I have to ask. Was it full throttle? Was it max. butane flow? I think most of the skill contributing to that high speed run was the many hours spent retrofitting the model before taking it to the track. But maybe I'm wrong.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By gibs035 on 15 Aug 2009 04:17 PM 

Don are you implying that Art G. does not apply art to his engine running. 

Not at all. What I am saying is that Art G. doesn't have a monopoly on said art just because your name is Art!







Just a play on words to try to liven up this mundane topic. 

To set the record straight, IMHO Art G. has the art of the Slow Speed Live Steam Run.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Don
Not to continue the tangent and thereby go off topic....I will email a response to the inquiry...


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 15 Aug 2009 06:58 PM 
Don
Not to continue the tangent and thereby go off topic....I will email a response to the inquiry...




Leave it to Charles to always get the 'last word' lol.







Such a heavy response to such a lite topic.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

John
To all due respect to Don and the premise of the topic:
"I never ment to infer that imitating the "real deal" had anything to do with operations. In this topic, I was just talking low speed, nothing else."


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

My K27 running slow.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...&hl=en


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

I'm going to let y'all take this topic to where ever. Hopefully some more video clips with slow starts and slow runs where you can "see the motion".

I spent about 10 hours today converting my new Harley Dyna Street Bob to Foward Controls. The photos are pre-conversion. My legs are too long for standard. Tomorrow ( Sunday) I plan to let off some steam with some biker buddies. Maybe even get one of those 200 mph runs.


















Just kidding about the 200 mph.









Maybe a ride to Rusk to see the Texas State Railroad. They steam slow .... 25 to 30 mph I think. Helps protect the equipment.

Keep on steamin'! 

I'm outta here......

Biker Don (a.k.a. Sailor Don)


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Slipped Eccentric on 15 Aug 2009 09:38 PM 
My K27 running slow.


That's a great live steam run. Thanks for the Video Clips.

Are there some missing pilot wheels or are my eyes just going bad?


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks! Missing pilot AND trailing trucks. That was in the middle of my coal conversion and I was still looking for parts.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey there Slipped Eccentric, those are some very nice slow runs. That's what we are talking about.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 15 Aug 2009 11:02 PM 
Hey there Slipped Eccentric, those are some very nice slow runs. That's what we are talking about. I'll second that (slow) motion.


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks again guys. I really like putting a load behind and running slow.


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## Garratts (Jan 15, 2008)

A small clip from Germany.... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpxw-KsK3SU 


Regards 
Ralf


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Ralf,

Thank you for posting your video clip. Nice looking model and the slow speed control of your Garratt is very good.









The rocks in the gondola cars look heavy. That must be close to the maximum load for pushing through the switch-out in reverse. Lots of wheel slip there, but it finally got traction. Some of the guys here in Houston occasionally use chalk dust to get more traction. I personally would be concerned about chalk dust working into the open axle bearings and other exposed parts of my live steamer. 

I was also impressed by the good quality of the video clip.

I hope the rivet counters amongst us don't ask you what scale the rocks are.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Ralf, I love the way you made that engine work. Looked awesome.


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## Garratts (Jan 15, 2008)

Posted By SailorDon on 18 Aug 2009 04:03 AM 

... 
The rocks in the gondola cars look heavy. ....


If you look closer, you see all 5 coaches are load with these rock .....
One rock is1,5 to 2kg. The tankcars are also loeded with water.....


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

While watching that video I had both feet on the floor "pushing"... trying to help that engine get those cars up that hill.... whew, that is hard work!


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

What a great collection of live steam video, for a fairly new comer to the hobby. Thanks a lot. 
Paul


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Garratts on 18 Aug 2009 08:05 AM 
If you look closer, you see all 5 coaches are load with these rock ..... One rock is1,5 to 2kg. The tankcars are also loeded with water.....








Ralf,

I viewed your video clip again, and saw the rocks in the coaches. That explains why the coaches didn't derail while pushing back the rock loaded gondola cars through the curve of the switch and up the incline. I wondered how you could do that without derailing when I watched it the first time.

Once again I say that is a fine display of slow speed running. Thank you for sharing it with us.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

This MLS website is painfully slow today. I tried unsuccessfully to load video clips onto my webspace about an hour ago and it ended in error messages after several tries. Now, an hour later, they loaded OK.

I visited this morning's session of Steamin' at Steve's I had the opportunity to get video clips of Caleb running his Grasshopper as slow as they can be run.
(If these links are broken, look further down the replies for YouTube updates.)

*Grasshopper Slow Speed Run #1*

*Grasshopper Slow Speed Run #2*

*Grasshopper Slow Speed Run #3*

After these wonderful slow speed runs, Caleb did one of those "200 mph" Grasshopper runs. It wasn't intentional. The little locomotive was possessed.









Bill showed excellent slow speed form (and precise R/C) with his Smokey Jo #2.

Smokey Jo #2[/b]


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By trainmax on 14 Aug 2009 05:41 PM 
WOW thats the best sound I have every heard coming from a K-27!

Good work Richard

Call me a very satisfied customer!









The only thing I did differently from the basic Bark Box installation instructions was to put a slight taper on the top of the shortened Accucraft exhaust tube before I slipped the Bark Box over it. I did the taper by annealing the cut end of the exhaust tube, chucking it into an electric drill, and squeezing it gently between a pair of round-nosed pliers while I turned it in the drill (a few drops of oil prevented the pliers from grabbing and twisting the tube in the process). I figured the taper would act as a nozzle to give the steam a little higher velocity going into the Bark Box, maybe give a slightly sharper chuff that way. No idea if that has actually made a difference though, or if I just have a particularly good Bark Box.


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## SailorDon (Jan 6, 2008)

This is a YouTube replacement for the Smokey Jo #2 video clip that was removed from the previous reply.


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