# PHOENIX 2K2



## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

I want to install sound in a Bachmann G scale 3 truck Shay. TE controlled. I have the chance to purchase a brand new 2K2 kit at a reasonable price. Is this a good unit on reproduction of sound? Thanks fellas.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep one of the best sounds you can get. You can even program it for different sounds if you buy the programmer. I had a bunch of these and really like them. Later RJD


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Good choice on the 2K2, Ross. Which TE are you using?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Are you getting it cheaper than the new P8? 

(not wanting to burst a bubble, but the new units are cheaper than the 2k2 and do the same if you are running the new TE). 

Regards, Greg


----------



## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

First off, the P8 is not yet shipping. Secondly, the p8 is a change from the P5 and not a replacement for the 2k2. The Pb9 is the 2k2 replacement. The 2k2 design is now nearly 10 years old. It started shipping in 2002. Fine technology and state of the art at the time. however, it was replaced because the new design is more efficient, smaller and lower cost. Also, there a re a few components on the 2k2 that are reaching or have reached end of life in the semiconductor supplier world. This does not mean that Phoenix would not be able to repair or that your 2k2 is in imminent failure mode. What it does mean is that costs of obsolete components and availability of same goes way up and down respectively. To continue to produce the 2k2 would have required more effort to locate sources etc, hence the pb9. Track power etc, all the same features. The 2k2 would need to sell for 33% below its former common street price to be an acceptable alternative to the pb9.

Jonathan/EMW 

[script removed]


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jonathan, if he is using the Revolution TE (he says "TE" in his post), would not the P8 work fine? From my understanding, the P8 has everything the PB9 does except for the "straight DC mode", and I believe there is a small difference in the number of trigger inputs. 

My point was that if he is using the Revolution TE, all he needs is what the P8 does... (and I did ask about the "new" TE) 

Is this incorrect? 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg...... Phoenix has put the P8 manual on their website with wiring diagrams for all the "major" DC, RCC and DCC receiver/decoders. 

Sounds like a very nice, new setup. Jonathan's post is very complete and very well explained.

I do have one ordered...


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not to niggle the point, but Jonathan's post did not address the issue I raised... 

I completely understand the INTENT of the P8.... but if you are running from a revolution you do not NEED a 2k2 or it's replacement, but a P5 with enough triggers, which is what a P8 is. 

The beginning of this was more along the lines of "a big discount" on a 2k2 might actually be the same price as a P8... 

Yes I know the P8 is not shipping, in fact it seems that almost nothing is shipping from Phoenix, but that's another issue. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I heard from a dealer that the P8 is supposed to ship within a week. I sent a note to Phoenix. It appears that the P8 will be the only product. It replaces the 2K2, P5 & PB9


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

As a youngster, my Mum told me, that if I can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything. 

So I won't say anything about Phoenix.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, that makes sense, since it's obvious they have extreme difficulty producing more than 2 different products at a time (not trying to be mean, just the well-documented delivery problems for the last 2 years).

But, I wonder if they will change the feature set of the P8? Right now their comparison page shows that the P8 "lacks" DC operation and an on board charger as compared to the PB9: *http://www.phoenixsound....>*

Now, making the charger an extra cost "add on" makes sense, but it would seem that they need to add in the "DC" operation.


Hmm... a quick check of the P8 online manual, AHH!! look at page 6 of the draft manual, they jumper the motor and the power leads together, and sure looks like it runs on DC.

So, looks like the P8 can replace the P9B right out of the chute, but will need the battery charger circuit added for the DC folks.

Regards, Greg *
*

p.s. smooth move Bill, you always seem to get the "inside story"


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Could someone explain to us electronically challenged people what the difference is between the P8 and P9? Greg makes reference to "charger"... would that be some sort of "juice" storage system that enables the system to produce sound even after the "track power" has been cut off... IE shut down noises etc. and if that's the case, running battery power independent of motor power might negate the need. Have I got any of that right?
I also have been waiting for long time for a Phoenix order. It's unfortunet that this company seems to be dropping the ball. In this economy I would think everyone would be trying very hard to "do a good job and keep customers happy". "Watch out Phoenix, I'll bet the folks at Aristocraft or Bachamnn are considering a new market"


Thanks
D


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don, first did you go to the link I put in my post? That's the feature comparison from Phoenix. 

The P9b has a charger for an on-board battery. When running on DC, and coming to a stop, there is no power on the rails, thus the sound would quit. So you have an on-board battery to keep the sounds going for a short while. You also need a battery charger to recharge it. 

When you run battery power, you have a constant power source available, so no other "backup battery" is needed, nor a charger for the "backup battery". 

If you run constant track power, like DCC, again you have constant power available in the same way. 

I think this is a good decision by Phoenix, dump the older hardware design, and make just one good product. It's clear trying to have several products at once was beyond their capacity. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Don. 
You have the explanation. 
The PB9 has an on-board charger for the battery back up system. The P8 does not. 

It would be a very simple matter when used with regular track DC, to power the P8 with a battery for the Steam & diesel sounds. The steam chuff and diesel rumble can be timed from one of the 5 trigger inputs. 
You would of course have to replace or recharge a flat battery. 

When the P8 is to be used with battery R/C for example, the diesel rumble can be varied using the discreet motor reference voltage input. 

So the story of the P8 replacing everything else does make sense.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well if it was me I'd go ahead and buy the 2K2 as it's available may or may not be a good price but it's sound and you can get it now. Who knows when the other boards are going to show up. later RJD


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh yes, and Greg, I did look at the Phoenix link you posted...thanks...It still left me a little unclear..."DCC & Remote but not DC"... If I run Battery and one of Dels "Critter controls", that would be DC (battery) and not DCC or remote and yet as I understand it, the P8 would do the job. When Phoenix says DC, I think they are talking track power control er straight voltage with no embeded code. Hows that for a wacky car mechanic explanation


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

DC = analog track voltage that can go to zero, no main on board battery to run the loco. 

Remote = remote control = onboard battery and R/C system 

Basically the only time you need a backup battery is when the supply voltage can be zero, that is traditional, track power from a throttle that can go to full off... 

Regards, Greg


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I believe we are on the same page. Do you see my point that a battery powered non-rc controlled train is still technically DC? but the P8 would still work fine as the supply voltage (from the battery) would be "more or less" constant, never getting anywhere near "0". Unlike DC track voltage which I would call "control" as opposed to "supply" voltage. 
D


----------



## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

Evening world! (well it is here (UK) anyway). 
I should have said in my original post, I was going to run everything on the Train Engineer 55470 setup (27mhz) (having bought before 2.4ghz was announced. 
I am not clear on whether the new Phoenix gear will be ok for this setup and I am not going DCC until I have wrung operations out..being new to all this new fangled electronic wizardry! But I follow your comments with interest and note them and I am obliged to you all for your posts, Every little helps in the learning process for us oldsters (76). Thanks guys..look forward to more comments. 
Seems that Phoenix are a bit slow on supply of goods. Unless this can be sorted out then I see no future for Phoenix. But then..who else produces quality sounds to equal them (as I have been told, time and time again) THEY are the best.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ross One thing is if you do get the 2K2,(and it will work fine with the AC 27 mhz) is that down the road if you do go to a DCC system these boards will function with it. Later RJD


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I just thought id bring you guys up to date, I spoke with PHOENIX a few minutes ago and they do have now and will still make the p-9 board, so the p-9 and p-8 will be the only boards produced. I dont know were Bill got his info but it is incorrect so PHOENIX says. I thought something didnt sound rite because # analog power layouts far exceed the battery RC and command control layouts hands down so it would have been a foolish mistake for PHOENIX to make only a RC board.







Now lets see how long it takes to ship the p-9 boards to there dealers at least the ones that dont talk bad about them..........he he he


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So Ross, are you running the train engineer connected to the track, and unmodified locos (except for the addition of the sound board) 

OR 

Are you running the train engineer in the loco or a trailing car with battery or constant track power? 

Regards, Greg 

In the first case, you want an onboard backup battery (2k2 or PB9), and probably reed switches and track magnets 

In the second case you might do well with the 2k2 or the PB9 or the P8. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

I'll run with track power..Got stacks of rechargeable batteries if/when required! A few of them 12v 4 amp type Lithium Ion with safety cut-out pcbs fitted (model aero setup retired.)
Might launch out and buy the 2K2 in view of the adverse comments about long wait for newer Phoenix gear. Can always buy newer later.








Thanks to everybody for the useful inputs.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 Feb 2010 06:40 PM 

So Ross, are you running the train engineer connected to the track, and unmodified locos (except for the addition of the sound board) 

OR 

Are you running the train engineer in the loco or a trailing car with battery or constant track power? 

Regards, Greg 

In the first case, you want an onboard backup battery (2k2 or PB9), and probably reed switches and track magnets 

In the second case you might do well with the 2k2 or the PB9 or the P8. 

Regards, Greg 
So, you are running the train engineer connected to the track, and (as yet) unmodified locos?

Yeah, if you can get a 2k2 at a good price and while it is larger, you should have room for the battery too, since you have a 3 truck shay... maybe put the battery and electronics in a different place than the speaker... space can be a bit tight on the 2 truck shays.


Regards, Greg


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm wondering if I'm the only one that finds it odd that we call conventional track power "DC"? What does the DC stand for? I would think it stands for direct current as opposed to "AC" which would of course be alternating current. But that can't be the answer because Phoenix says their P8 will not work in a "DC" set up, and yet their P8 does in fact run on "Direct current"?? perhaps we should call conventional track power VDCV for variable direct current voltage......curious minds need to know. 
D


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Don, 
Even though battery power is of course DC, to differentiate it from regular DC track power, it would probably be better to call on board battery power, "Self contained DC". 

Actually, as discussed earlier, it would be a quite simple matter to make the P8 work on regular DC track power. To do so would require on board batteries which would of course not be rechargeable form the track.


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Yet another phoenix question is: What are the 5 triggers for? Speed (chuff or engine sound), bell, and whistle....ok that's 3 the other 2 would be for ??? coal shuveling? taking on water ??


----------



## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

There are a myriad of things you can use the triggers for. I am more familiar with diesels, but with diesels you can have: auto horn play (2 longs, short, long), manual horn (toots while button is held down) bell, motor under load, rev up, rev down, dynamic brake, and on and on. When you install your 2K2, if you get the computer interface, you can go into that interface and you will see lots of triggers that can be actuated. My guess is that after you have had the board for awhile you will probably attach a function to all the triggers.


Ed


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The GP9-6 sound my P8 sample came with had cab chatter.


----------



## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

I've missed cab chatter since PH Hobbies is gone. That was fun to listen to even if it did become a little boring if continuously activated!


----------



## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

I can live with out cab chatter. It makes the trains seem more like toys; I hope it can be turned off. 

Alan


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

What is cab chatter? 
I do like the "ALL ABOARD" I've heard on some of the phoenix samples. Do all of the Phoenix "sounds" have it? 
D 
Tony, I think you missed my point. I was talking about track power. (like a starter set)


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Don I know exactly what you were saying. 
I agree it would be better to separate the definitions. Because it would be way too difficult to get the manufacturers of starter sets, for example, to change their nomenclature from something as simple as DC, I am suggesting battery R/C people call their chosen form of power *S*elf *C*ontained *DC*. Or *SCDC* for short.


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

AH, OK Tony I'm with you. SCDC it will be for my battery trains. 
D


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

SCDC was just a suggestion. 
There could be an even better way of describing it.


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

OK How about just BP and for track power TP? Eliminating "current" terminology confusion.


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 18 Feb 2010 01:00 AM 
AH, OK Tony I'm with you. SCDC it will be for my battery trains. 


D Or here's a thought ... we could call it something everyone in the world is already familiar with .... "Battery Power"


----------



## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Uh Oh the "forbidden" two words!! Hee hee LOL Regal Here we go!!


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

When I first started posting here I wanted to run on track power, via remote control. I was constantly having to point out that remote control, did not mean automatically mean batteries. Just saying "track power" implies the old "transformer with rheostat wired to track" model, and misses things like track power and wireless DCC, via Airwire, or conventional DCC, via the track.

"Battery Power" could mean "battery powered, DCC controlled" or it could mean battery powered, 2.6 ghz controlled, etc.


----------

