# Climax loco progress



## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I silver soldered a tube for the whistle today, and that was the last part - the loco is complete. Here is a photo from my set on Flickr (

http://www.flickr.com/photos/edhume3/sets/72157600964223180/ )











All that remains is painting and debug. 


I'll be bringing it to John Frank's on Saturday. 

Regards,
Ed


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## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

WOW is all I can say. great job on that beautiful locomotive.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

What a beauty. Its a shame though you only made one for yourself. Hah 

Is the Shay next?


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

> Is the Shay next?

Eventually I would like to build a Shay but probably not as the next project. I have been thinking of some smaller items such as log cars. Also, I have been thinking of functional tank cars to haul water and butane. To use Kozo Hiraoka's shay plans for Gauge 1 would require some serious re-sizing and rearrangement to have the drive shaft straight for 3ft NG. Dan Rowe's Shay plans are being published in SITG and are of interest to everyone who likes the geared locos. His model is somewhat larger than 20.3 scale and would be tall compared to my Climax and Heisler. 


Ed


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ed. Everyone is looking forward to seeing the Climax this Saturday. The pictures look great.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

That, Sir, is one beautiful model and a great achievement in any scale. It would take prizes at any model engineer exhibition here in UK, of that I have no doubt. A building log of this model should be compulsory reading for anybody interested in scratch-built live steam.

The boys and I offer you our heartiest congratulations.

tac & the boys
www.ovgrs.org


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

"Water & butane??" Herb Chaudiere had several tank cars that held "grape juice", the seasoned kind. The flat car behind them held "grape juice" glasses.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful work Ed!! How long did it take you start to finish?


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed,
I really enjoyed your pictures on Flicker and got a feel for the tremendous amount of work involved. You can be proud of your accomplishment. It's a beautiful piece of work. I hope to see a movie of it running. Thanks for sharing.


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks guys!

Dwight - I started in Feb 2006, so it will hopefully be a little less than 2 years when I am through painting and through debug.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Beautiful work, Ed. I look forward to the video.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Truly spectacular work Ed. You mentioned once before that you used Kozo's plans basically scaled by 1mm=1/32". How did this work out? Hit any snags? 

Thanks, Bob


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks! 

Bob, Yes, I basically followed Kozo Hiraoka's design with each mm becoming 1/32", and 1.089" width being removed from the trucks. Other changes include o-rings instead of graphite yarn, latch plates on the trucks, and the scissor hinged roof. I also made the roof and tank from 1/16" sheet which is heavier than the plans. The photos on Flickr show how I lined the tank bottom with filed pieces instead of bent pieces. There were a few times when I modified the plans to not use smaller than 0-80 fasteners, or to provide more room around the fasteners, but on the whole scaling the plans was pretty direct. It can get tricky to silver solder pipe nozzles right near a bend, and sometimes I made the hole in a union nut larger to be able to move it further away. The dummy air compressor is from Kozo's new shay plans, except I cut 4 rings of dummy bolt heads by CNC instead of working with tiny screws.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

It is almost a shame to paint such excellent craftsmanship. I got into the live steam hobby because a friend of my Dad built 1/2" scale steamers from scratch. He steamed them au natural--don't think any ever were painted. 

Beautiful work. 

Larry


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Here is what she looks like painted and with decals -




 

These images are from my Flick page http://www.flickr.com/photos/edhume3 where you can see the photos in larger size or see other images.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice Ed


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

That, Sir, Is one beautiful engine. Would make any loggers heart race a tad. What did you use for paint if I may ask? BTW the plans that Dan Rowe has in the STIG are for a 7/8ths scale shay. You can check his progress over on the 7/8ths Lounge. 
Noel


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Noel,

I have used a bake-on coating from KG Systems called Gun-Kote. The product is #2401 Satin Black. I spray it with an airbrush and bake it on at 325F for an hour in a toaster oven. The coating is much thinner than paint or powder coat - maybe 3 tenths of a mil (.0003") so it does not interfere with the fit. Once it has been baked on, you are ready to go. Also, you can touch it up if you need to - something you cannot do with powder coat. The shiny brass was coated with a high temperature clear varnish from Eastwood. The white trim line is also a Gun-Kote 2400 series coating. Also, the Gun-Kote does not harden without baking so cleaning up your airbrush and bottle are less critical than with paints. 




Regards,
Ed


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

Looking forward to seeing her in person.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

That's one georgous engine Ed. Looking forward to seeing it run.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ed, 

Absolutely incredible! Are you coming to Diamondhead? 

Regards, 
Bob


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

That's one "PROFESSIONAL" looking finish. I've got a couple of locos overdue for completion and this might help me to get them out to finish.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed, 
Thanks for the info on Gun-Kote. I have their website book marked. I know of an individual who used it on his 71/2 in gauge engine. Loves it. 
Noel


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## bfindus (Aug 17, 2008)

I tried to find a website for KG Systems but couldn't find it. Do you have a source of info for the paint manufacturer? 
Bill


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like their company name is actually KG Industries, LLC. Their website is www.kgcoatings.com 

Bob, I was not planning on Diamondhead this year, but I want to some day. Seeing your diesels would be a real highlight of the trip. 

Ed


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed,
She is abeaut. Wish you could bring her to run on Tuesday At Steve's . Suppose to be a great day.40's early and up to the low 60's later.


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## Bob Pope (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Ed - I looked at your photos on flickr - thanks for documenting everything. I would love to see your work (and you) in person one day. 

Regards, 
Bob


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed, 
I admire 2 facts especially about your excellent loco: 
#1 The decision to go from ride-on scale to 1:20.3. Most people go the opposite way. 
#2 Cutting the gears. I intend to build a ride-on A-Climax, but still chicken out when it comes to the gears, in spite of Kozo's excellent manual. 
Regards


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed: I forgot to ask you how well the Walschearts valve gear works. Kozo does very meticulous work so my guess it works great.

Henner Meinhold mentioned he wants to build a ride on Climax, but is worried of the gears. Kozo's Climax book shows how to use stock bevel gears in place of the offsets.


If anyone want to build one in 7.5" (7.25") gauge, this company sells gears:



http://www.precisionlocomotivecastings.com/


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks guys. 

I am still debugging - getting after leaks, etc, so, Art I am not ready for Steaming at Steve's on Tuesday - I hope to be there later this month. 

I have had the loco running briefly on rollers and the valve gear is working fine. I never bothered to run on air because I knew the design was sound - you can trust Kozo completely. The pumping lubricator is also working well.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

So Ed, just how durable is this Gun-Kote? How easily is it scratched, etc. with the normal handling associated with our live steamers? Does handling eventually wear it off? 

Beautiful work on the Climax!! She's a real jewel!


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 11/17/2008 4:49 PM
... 
Henner Meinhold mentioned he wants to build a ride on Climax, but is worried of the gears. Kozo's Climax book shows how to use stock bevel gears in place of the offsets.


If anyone want to build one in 7.5" (7.25") gauge, this company sells gears:



http://www.precisionlocomotivecastings.com/


A Climax without the correct gears is a no-no for me. As this model will be a companion to my 1" Heisler, I eventually have to bite the bullet and make the gears. Of course, Kozo makes it look easy (like books about golfing...), but I am still chickening out...
Regards


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner,

Don't you go changing hobbies on us now! Long live the 4L Society. The grass is always greener on the golf course but that doesn't mean the cows enjoy it anymore. The milk comes out just the same.


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Dwight, the Gun-Kote does well for wear. One thing I do to promote adhesion is to beadblast the metal before painting. This results in a matte surface that is microscopically rough and gives the coating a good surface. The product was originally developed for firearms so it stands up well to high temperature and handling. I have been using my Heisler for a couple years and it looks pretty new. Out of the oven it is hard - not like ordinary paint that may be gummy until it dries.


Henner - don't be afraid to make the gears. If you can make a working Heisler, you will succeed.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Ed. Forgive me for asking yet another question, but what do you use to bead blast?


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Dwight, 

I have a large benchtop-size sandblaster that I use with 100-170 mesh glass bead media. My air compressor is 3 hp peak, and it can do 5cfm at 90psi. This is small for sandblasting but it does get the job done. I have the air compressor on a hand truck and I wheel it into the garage for blasting and back in the shop for coating.



Regards,
Ed


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## Shaymaker (Feb 15, 2008)

A Climax without the correct gears is a no-no for me. As this model will be a companion to my 1" Heisler, I eventually have to bite the bullet and make the gears. Of course, Kozo makes it look easy (like books about golfing...), but I am still chickening out...
It IS easy, just time consuming. When I started thinking about the Catatonk Climax, I reasoned that I would have to sure about making the gears before committing myself to the project. The first step was to take Kozo's formalae and convert them into a spreadsheet - I could then play with numbers until I got the diameters and gear ratios I wanted. I ended up with 12:21, which meant that, over a period of time, each tooth would have to mesh with every other tooth, thus evening out the wear. 

As I was making more than one loco (I had to make about 400 pairs of gears to allow for "scrappers") I decided that CNC was the route to go. Accordingly, I fitted stepper motors and a cheapo computer to my Taiwan miller and rotary table and simply plugged in the numbers. As a result, having done the groundwork, I could mount up the turned blank gear, press the "go" button and get on with something else whilst the machine produced swarf. 

If you're only making one loco, this is a lot of work (although the benefits of having a CNC machine in the workshop are considerable) so the time could best be spent making up the odd shaped bits of metal as specified by Kozo. Do exactly what he says, and you'll be sure of success.

Go for it! 

When you look at the finished Climax, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about. 

Good luck..... 

Mike Chaney


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: I know you can do it. If you can drill a 0.006" hole for a gas jet, you can cut some of Kozo's gears. Here is something that might help with the math

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/xo18thfa/Gears2.xls


Take care, Bob


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Here is a short video segment showing the Climax running on rollers-

The preview mode is not showing the embedded shockwave video from flickr, so I am not sure this post will work....



The URL of the video is http://www.flickr.com/photos/edhume3/3053734641/in/set-72157600964223180/


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed 
She is a "BEAUT". Your video worked out fine. Im gonna be gone for a couple of weeks, Hope to see her at Steve.s soon. Have a great TG.


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

Great Video Ed. 

By the way it looks in focus to me.

Again we hope to see her in person one of these days.


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## k5pat (Jan 18, 2008)

Hi Ed,
I looked at all your Flickr photos and videos. You do beautiful work and it runs great too! One thing I noticed is that you use a suction fan on a butane locomotive. Do you find that you need the fan to decrease the warmup time? Usually fans are only used on Alky and coal fired locos.
Great Work!


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## Ed Hume (Jan 3, 2008)

Pat, The manufactured engines that burn butane and do not need a fan or drafting apparatus typically have a single large fire tube with the burner oriented to have the flame and fumes blow down the tube, into the smokebox and up the stack. My Climax has eight 3/8" diameter smoke tubes in a 3-2-3 arrangement and a hollow wall firebox. The flame is oriented upward from the bottom of the firebox. It does need some drafting help to coax the fumes to travel across through the smaller smoketubes. Needing a blower was a surprise first encountered with my Heisler which has a similar boiler. The drafting fan also helps pull more butane flow out of the burner, so it is something a person could do to speed things up even if there was an adequate draft.


Thank you all for your kind words.

Ed


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## k5pat (Jan 18, 2008)

Ed,
After I wrote my first reply I looked at your pictures of the boiler again and did notice the eight tubes instead of one big tube for the burner. That makes sense for the use of the fan. Very nice work and I love your shop setup.

Pat


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Hi Ed,
I hope you are still using this forum from time to time.

After seeing the photos of your locomotives, and reading your article in the cnc magazine, I knew I had to buy Kozo's book! I'm starting to build an FN3 Climax using your 1/32 method and truck width subtraction. One question, did you make the wheels 1-7/8 in dia? The wheels seem a bit large, as compared to my Accucraft 3 cylinder Shay. Are they supposed to be big...or am I supposed to have a wheel diameter change for narrow gauge?


Thanks in advance for any help or opinions from all.
Jeff


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

So...if you scale up Kozo's dimensions to full size you end up having 36.5 inch wheels. Divided by 20.3 and you get 1.8 thus, the math is correct in the scale/units conversion. 

While I still think 36 in wheels may be improbable for a 3 ft gauge Climax, I'm starting to think it's how I'll roll. It's going to be a large locomotive anyways....we're taking an F scale standard gauge locomotive and putting her on FN3 trucks. The frame itself is over 20 inches long. 

Already I can see that my Acc 3 cylinder Shay was made from a much smaller sized prototype (specifically sized for narrow gauge)! I don't know how great these two engines are going to look when paired up....but oh well, just and excuse to build the Heisler later on!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, just take Kozo's metric dimensions and divide them by 32 and use that number in inches. That's a conversion scale of 1mm = 1/32 inch. For example, if Kozo's dimension is 10mm, divide 10 by 32 and you get 5/16". Too easy. You will convert everything to inch, use all inch materials, taps, dies, everything and the model will convert from 1:16 scale to 1:20.17 (close enough for this town) 

I think Kozo's Climax will scale fine to 3 foot. Lima built 70 ton Shays for 2 foot track, so Kozo's 50 tonners will scale to 3 foot just fine. In Kozo's Heisler book there is a 50 tonner with 36" wheels running on 3 foot gauge. It will be a big engine for sure. You going to cut the gears??


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bob, 
I was aware of the 1/32 double conversion factor, but I started to have my doubts when I noticed how much larger this locomotive is than the other geared engines in FN3. I checked it out by scaling up to full size and then going straight to 1:20.3. As you mentioned, the results are similar. So unless Kozo's dimensions are off...it's simply going to be an terrifically large loco. You can see some evidence of this in Ed's photos where the engine is coupled to FN3 rolling stock. This engine is going to be more on the size-realm of EBT 12 and the D&RG Mikes (which I believe were also built on standard gauge designs). 


My concern is that in NH we have all 3 types of the geared engines in standard gauge....and the 3 cylinder Shay is by far...far...far the largest of the 3. http://www.whitemountaincentralrr.com/RailroadLocomotives 


Not sure if I'm going make the gears or not..if I can buy them, then no. 

Here's how its done in full scale: http://www.whitemountaincentralrr.com/EventClimaxDriveShaft


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I've often wondered the size too. Kozo's are in the 50 ton range. They are big machines. Here's an interesting chart on Shay classification. http://www.shaylocomotives.com/shayclass.htm In the 18 ton range the loco's are the size we're used to. Get to 40 to 50 tons and its a different story.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Are yu the famous Ed Hume from the Pacific Northwest?

I have bought several of his gardening books and usually use his seeds for planting my garden.

I see him on TV occasionally.

John


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bob, 
So it seems we really have an extreme of both types. The 50 ton Climax B was nearly as large as they came, while the Mich-Cal Shay was on the smaller end. I did some research on the M-C shays...although I couldn't find info on Mich Cal #5, I did find the data for #4. http://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/dataframe.htm 

My Shay likely would have been 33.2 tons and rode on 29in wheels. I'd love to find a Climax data base to see how the climax LoCos were equipped. The trend for Shays were 36 in gauge locos rode on 29in wheels while the STD gauge versions mostly had 36in.


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