# A question for Richard Smith



## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard.

I (among others I'm sure) will be blatantly ripping off your wonderful benchwork structure this spring. I have a question for you. I've been going over all the photos you've posted trying to reverse engineer your benchwork. In one photo you show a "exploded view". You cna see all the layers from Track down through the fabric and hardware cloth down to the joists. 

The question I have is the joint work that you have there. In order to adequately support the hardware cloth it looks like you have wrapped it over an inner beam and secured it on the outside with another beam sistered to that. I can only assume that you then apply a flush fitting rail and caprail to that. I imagine it to be something like my 1st grade paint program art below...










The brown areas being wood structure, red line is hardware cloth, blue line is landscape fabric...


Would I accomplish the same thing in a simpler arrangement such as this..?










If you have any more photos or diagrams of your structure I'd (and I'm certain others) would love to see them. 


Thanks

Dave.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

Your second diagram is what I do except I just put the fabric beneath the "armrest" on top of the screening and secure both together. Of course I also staple the screening and fabric to the joists as I lay them. 

What's probably confused you is that in the particular application you mentioned there is benchwork on top of benchwork to accomodate the turntable on a raised area above the general level of the main benchwork. Lighter bracing was all that was needed there and everything was secured in the most expedient way (improvised). 

I assume you know of Steve C's wonderful work in putting together a pdf file on the POC's construction? Warning: a very large file for dialup. 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/stevec/POC RR/POC_Main.pdf 

I'll see if I can put together a sort of step by step for those unable to download such a large file.


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Excellent, Thank you Richard. In my iteration I was thinking of using two layers of landcscape fabric, the first layer as you stated, under the armrest, and the second layer as I have diagramed above. If you use only one as you described, maybe I'll just save the time and $$$ and go with one layer. 

Do you have any issues with the caprail (armrest) sitting level on top of the hardware cloth? 

I'll take a peek at the pdf file. I do have stoneage equipment (dialup) but I'll msee if I can get it to go... 

Thanks again. You Da Man..... (on the west coast anyway... Marty in the midwest.... )


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

No problems with the armrest on top of the hardware cloth. I use self-tapping 3" deck screws to secure them down about every 12 to 18". You might note from the early photos that originally I secured the ladder roadbed to the benchwork before laying the hardware cloth and fabric down because I was concerned that it wouldn't be level. This proved to be unfounded. I now screw the spreader blocks down right through everything with very little if any problem. Saves a lot of cutting and fitting after the fact. Not a big problem with the fabric but a bit of a hassle cutting the hardware cloth. 

As to Marty's superb railroad: I plead "no contest"!


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

How well is your hardware cloth holding up, specificaly with regards to moisture? I've looked at the galvanized cloth and it sure looks tough. Should be able to support a goodly amount of weight as well but I worry about corosion/rust over time. I did notice at Home Depot that they had a plastic variant of hardware cloth as well. I can only assume that it would be totaly impervious to water related issues, but I wonder as to it's strenth and stretch issues. 

Any thoughts?


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

The hardware cloth is as weather proof as any material I've ever used. No rust, no deterioration of any kind. I even store the unused roll outside. It will bow and sag if not supported and secured well but it won't break. I use joists on 16" centers now. Initially I started with 24" centers but found I needed to install additional support under some sections. I decided it was easier to add more joists in the first place. I don't think you'd be ahead with the plastic stuff as it'd simply need a lot more support beneath it, probably twice as much as the hardware cloth. 

The landscape fabric also has held up perfectly. It will deteriorate over time if exposed to sunlight but since it's buried beneath soil and rock there's been no problem there either. If you should tear it all you'd have to do is push back the soil about a foot or two from the hole, set a patch on top and re-cover with the soil. The weight will hold it in place as long as it's supported from beneath by the hardware cloth.


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Great, Thansk Richard, that eases my mind a lot.. The basic hardware cloth is cheaper as well..


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## Skip (Jan 2, 2008)

Hardware cloth is hot-dipped galvanized which gives it a pretty heavy zinc coating. As long as you don't flex it too much and crack the coating, its very durable.


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## Oldman (Sep 20, 2008)

I am also on stone age equipment and it took about an hour to download your file. I must say though that it is well worth the time spent. There is a LOT of great information here. Thank you for sharing it with us.


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