# Issue with Piko Mogul ...



## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Morning All,

Yesterday I received my Piko Mogul steamer, which is a great little loco with both sound and lighting. Needless to say, I had to run it as soon as I could, and that is where I noticed what seems to be a problem with it.

The further the engine got from where my power connects to the track (one feeder at the moment) the more the lights "flickered" and it began to run with a lot of hesitation.

Why I see this as a possible problem is because my GP38-2 (without sound) runs smoothly all the way round the layout even when pulling rolling stock. Could the problem with the Mogul be that it requires more power, due to the sound, to run smoothly than the GP38-2?

If that is the case, will adding additional feeders (my intention anyway) resolve that issue or do I need to up my power from 5 amps to 8 amps? Or, could it be another issue entirely?

Thanks in advance guys.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I would start buy cleaning the track. Every engine will run different. I had a LGB mogul that would run outside after winter with no track cleaning. While the others did not.

Don


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd check your rail joiners. Have you put in the rail clamps you ask about?

Your current travels in both directions in your loop. Therefore you have at least two problem joiners. To find them, run the engine slowly in one direction and as soon as you see a change in speed, stop it and mark with a stick or something at the rail join immediately behind the engine. DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO THE JOIN YET. Pick up the engine and put it down on a good section do track and reverse its direction. Again note the track section where there is a problem. Now you can check the joins. Back before I started securing my track sections, I used a pair of pliers to slightly squeeze the open end of the rail joiner so that there was a tighter fit. Do this on both rails at each place there was a problem. Now run the engine again and see if that solves the problem. If there are more bad joins it should go further before a problem occurs. Keep doing this until the engine goes around with out a problem. 

A test like this should be done whether or not you add a feeder line to the other side. If you have more than two bad joins you will still have a problem.

it takes two or more bad joins to have an effect on performance, but one will never show up by running a train. You might be able to find it by checking the resistance across each join with a meter, but on a large layout that is a PIA and other places.

Chuck

PS. Is your track new, used, or a little bit of both? If some of it is used it wouldn't be surprising if some of your rail joiners are looser than others.


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks guys,

First up, all of my track is new, as are the trains - nothing used at all. 

The track was cleaned using the drywall sander pole and scotch brite pad with a little alcohol prior to running the engines so the track "should have" been clean. That being said, and with the number of changes I have made to the track plan, cleaning the track doesn't clean between the track and the joiners. Looks like I am going to have to check the joins and joiners.

Chuck, no I haven't gotten the rail clamps yet. The diesel ran nicely so I didn't see any urgency in making the change to the rail clamps. That degree of urgency may have now changed though.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

WB457

Another easy test is to run an engine and note as before where it slows down or stops. Insert a small bladed screw driver in the gap between the rails just behind the engine and make contact with the two rails. The train should start on one or the other rails. Watch how far it goes that will tell you if you have other gaps.

Chuck

It doesn't take too many taking the track apart episodes the start loosening the joiners.


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## tomplatten (Sep 12, 2008)

I would add a warning about Piko locomotives. I have three of them! Two out of the three have had drive gears replaced! I spoke with Piko's dealer in San Diego-I know him from his LGB days--and told him these little 0-6-0 do not benefit from heavy trains and uneven outdoor track. I suggested he contact the factory and see if they can use brass gears! When I switched from Lionel to LGB track out doors, all of my trains ran better including my Bachmann "Annies". No more front truck derailing!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

It maybe that your diesel has a higher current draw. Two motors draw more than one, even if it has sound. A higher current draw might be able to pull more current through a poor contact. I seem to recal that I have had occasional problems with one motor engines, while two motor engines ran just fine. I do not pretend to understand the movement of electrons. So my musings on this could be all wet.

Chuck


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Chuck, this is incorrect. More current draw will give a higher voltage drop. The diesel will have more track pick-ups that will help to get over bad spots.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Mike, I knew some one would correct me.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Since the diesel runs fine, and it probably draws more current, the track joiners and power is not the issue.

My guess is that the Piko has fewer power pickups... I would test it to see if all wheels are picking up properly. 

I don't know the power pickup system of the Piko.

Also, check the wheels, possibly they are picking up contaminants sooner, although it sure sounds like you have the track nice and clean.

Greg


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Thanks All,

I really don't know what the issue was but today, the Mogul ran nicely. With that being said, I did do the following things before I tried running it again:

1. Checked all of the rail joiners and discovered there was one missing (?) exactly where the Mogul was failing in the first instance. Other than that, all joins were or seemed okay with gaps (in places) no more than 1/8" wide. Most of those were reduced or eliminated altogether.

2. Gave the track another good clean with the drywall pole and scotch bite pad.

3. Put in an additional 7 feeders around the track work.

I don't which of the above solved the issue of yesterday, or if it may be a combination of all three; however, this afternoon the train ran well - not with standing gradients and still wobbly track, as can be seen in the following video:

https://vimeo.com/134374972


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## WillemD (Jul 23, 2015)

tomplatten said:


> I would add a warning about Piko locomotives. I have three of them! Two out of the three have had drive gears replaced!


To put things in perspective: I have five PIKO loco's (1 Mogul, 4 German prototypes), all of them still have their original gears in good condition.



Greg Elmassian said:


> My guess is that the Piko has fewer power pickups... I would test it to see if all wheels are picking up properly.
> 
> I don't know the power pickup system of the Piko.


Power is picked up from all three axles.


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Willem,

Thank you for explaining that now I know what to look for with respect the Mogul should I ever have a power problem with that engine.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It would be worth an inspection to see if the pickup surfaces are clean, and the center axle is making good contact.

Willem does not state this, but the means only the 3 drivers, no other pickups... that's a lot less than the 6 axle pickup on the Aristo diesel. Also, heavier locos tend to have better pickup, because all wheels are in firm contact.

I don't know if the Piko axles are all sprung, it looks as though the middle axle is not. That can affect wheel contact, and thus power pickup.

Is it possible the distant part of your layout also has "rougher" trackage?

Greg


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Grteg,



> "...Is it possible the distant part of your layout also has "rougher" trackage?..."


That is a possibility, yes. While the joins are "good" and the tack is clean, it is rougher than the area closest to where the power connects to the track work. There is a possibility that one of the Moguls wheel sets are lifting from the track in places. Something I didn't think of until your post.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, with what appears to be unsprung drivers only picking up, track with cross level or dips could affect pickup.

Greg


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Greg,

Think you may well be right. I did a lot of work on the gradient and track itself today, getting it much more even in all directions and now both engines run flawlessly.

This is what I have done:



Basically this is luon form work with pieces of 1" X 4" pine lengths every 6" for support of the framework and the track. My intention is to pour cement into the void to a depth of 2" then cover that with dirt and gravel thereby creating the sub roadbed and roadbed proper for ballasting. The tunnel is being covered with fiberglass for obvious reasons.

I fully expect the wood work to rot away in time, and that it what I am planning on, leaving the cement, gravel and dirt behind but packed down and supporting the track work.

This may not be the 100% perfect solution, but I think it is workable.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, a successful ending at last!

Good for you!

Greg


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## wombat457 (Jul 15, 2015)

Greg,

Thank you - guess I have the Aussie "never back down and never give up attitude"  Either that or, I am just one heck of a persistent son of a cow - or both


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