# How many bays in a shop?



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

How many bays in a engine shop?

How many bays in a Car Shop?

I am thinking of out door storage connected to the layout.

I think I will make it look like a maintenance facility 

One building 4 ft x 24 FT?

Or two buildings 2 FT x 24 foot

Maybe one for engines and one for rolling stock.

What do you think. 

My one plan called for 14 tracks 12 FT long. That should hold all my roling stock 

JJ


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

I have one that is 3 bays, but no where near as long as your thinking of building. Mine is only about 30 inches long. Good luck with your project.
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*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Car shops and dismal shops were seperate...but hey! It's your railroad.... 

John


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

As many as needed for the volume of work being done 




















Allegheny Valley/ Pennsy engine backshop Verona, Pa










HK Porter factory, Pittsburgh, Pa


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By mgilger on 18 Apr 2011 08:44 PM 
I have one that is 3 bays, but no where near as long as your thinking of building. Mine is only about 30 inches long. Good luck with your project.
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*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*

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We are doing about the same thing as mgilger did. 


Ours Car and Eng. storage shed is going to be only, little over 10 foot long by three tracks wide. ( 35 inches wide.)

We still in building process yet and will be 3 feet off the ground at the end of the set up area.
It's to only get the trains out of the weather for a short time. 


TRAIN SHED 







I like the idea you may have suggested is one barn for the Eng's & one for the rolling stock.

Boy a shed with 14 track by 24 foot long........ wow.. But then J.J. it looks like you have the room for it tho. 













http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/noelw/Set Up Area/storage3.JPG


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

John,

When I worked for Missouri Pacific we had 3 tracks in the shop two for car repairs and one for engines.
When I when to Union Pacific we had two tracks in the shop and one on each side. Engines were worked
on outside. in a different area. They had about six tracks for uints.

Don


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

As big as you can get it. Because it will never be enough.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

On a practical point... how will you get the cars out? 
My simple shed is designed to back a complete train in and pull out same train as is... 
I'll be in a pickle should I ever need to extract a car from the end, before I convert the top to lift up sections.... but it sure is secure now! 

Only cars that couldn't be repaired on the RIP (repaiir in place) track, made it to the shops.. so all your cars in the shop should be blue flagged! 
I see caboose hops in that future! 

John


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

Well I added 20 ft on to my shop so I could park the train in to roll out when 
I wanted to run trains. I have 7 tracks to park engins and cars on and still not enough 
room for all of them. So I added 3 big shelves to put cars on and still not enough 
room. I just stoped buying rolling stock and engines. Never will you have enough storage 
space, I would suggest making it at least twice as much as you think you will need. 

Ken owner of K&K the road to nowhere


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Since you asked "how big". The correct answer is: More room than you've probably got...

























http://wnhpc.com/wnhpchabs104076pu-l.jpg 
The above is the V&T shop complex at Carson City. The main building had 11 bays. If you include the external yard leads and turntable it would be 51 FEET X 13 FEET in HO! (Multiply that by about 3 for 1:29, or 4 for 1:20)........


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik, you pull out the greatest pictures. Do you have any of Scottish 12 wheel dining carriages from the 20s to mid 30s?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is part of my covered RR parking area. Not shown are four parallel parking areas above this level and three more similar areas below. 
During the winter. All three above, the area you see here minus the two lines on the right and the three parallel lines below--all of which are a minimum of 30 feet long--are FULL. 
Then, I also have two additional parallel lines in the bar where the battery-powered locomotives wait out the winter, and one more in the Kennecott area that is also FULL. 
That is just enough to secure all the rolling stock used during the summer, but not ALL of the rolling stock, since there is much more in storage elsewhere that never was placed on the layout.
My point is that there is NEVER enough parking space for model RR rolling stock.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

My orginal thought was jus build one huge terminal building 4 FT x 32 Feet. Figured two tracks in every 12 inches. That was going to be 8 tracks 32 feet long. I wast thinking my longest consist would be my Conatiner train which needs aporx 12 feet for the 5 articulated cars. I have three of them and one single container car. Then there is my Aristo Streamliner with 8 Cars. some where around 30 box cars. 15 flat cars. 12 tank cars, 11 Coal hoppers, 6 grain cars. 7 car MOW train. 4 SD-45s 2 SD40-2 4 NW-2s and 3 calfs. 6 cabeese. 2 Steam engines with 5 cars, one Eggliner and a Patriage in a pear tree. Then you guys posted all these wonderfull pictuers. So now my thought are more than one building maybe in a semi circle like the old round houses but with swtich tracs instead of turn tablle. Or a turntable for the engine house. switches for the car barn. 

With 4 NW-2s I should be able to shuffle cars around in the car barns. I think the sides of the car barn will drop down instead of the roof tilting. but not sure. 

I thought of one huge building but was having trouble deciding where to put it so it would not be a obstruction to the layout. But your pictures made me thing of a maintainence yard and buildings

Since I am in AZ I am thinking Adobe Spanish style buildings. 

JJ

PS Forgot my 10 years of USA Banquet cars from TBS.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi JJ,

Here is a thought...

Railroads never built indoor storage yards for their rolling stock but they did build Roundhouses for their locomotives AND...

They often had Train Stations that were HUGE and COVERED for bringing entire passenger trains INDOORS to keep the passengers dry.

Perhaps a Roundhouse for your locos and a Train Station for your rolling stock with or without locomotives (I believe sometimes locos were changed while the trains were in the station).

Missouri Pacific (now UP) had/has a huge maintenance facility in North Little Rock (Arkansas of course) but while I have been through it a few times I only saw single units being worked on one at a time. Multiple units were (I believe) stored outside until ready to be worked on.

http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/facilit...ndex.shtml

Jerry


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 19 Apr 2011 03:59 PM 
My orginal thought was jus build one huge terminal building 4 FT x 32 Feet. Figured two tracks in every 12 inches. That was going to be 8 tracks 32 feet long. I wast thinking my longest consist would be my Conatiner train which needs aporx 12 feet for the 5 articulated cars. I have three of them and one single container car. Then there is my Aristo Streamliner with 8 Cars. some where around 30 box cars. 15 flat cars. 12 tank cars, 11 Coal hoppers, 6 grain cars. 7 car MOW train. 4 SD-45s 2 SD40-2 4 NW-2s and 3 calfs. 6 cabeese. 2 Steam engines with 5 cars, one Eggliner and a Patriage in a pear tree. Then you guys posted all these wonderfull pictuers. So now my thought are more than one building maybe in a semi circle like the old round houses but with swtich tracs instead of turn tablle. Or a turntable for the engine house. switches for the car barn. 

With 4 NW-2s I should be able to shuffle cars around in the car barns. I think the sides of the car barn will drop down instead of the roof tilting. but not sure. 

I thought of one huge building but was having trouble deciding where to put it so it would not be a obstruction to the layout. But your pictures made me thing of a maintainence yard and buildings

Since I am in AZ I am thinking Adobe Spanish style buildings. 

JJ

PS Forgot my 10 years of USA Banquet cars from TBS. 

The advantage to 32-foot long structures is that it allows for parking reasonably-sized consists without breaking them up. Most of my trains are passenger consists, with the longest consisting of 9 USA streamliner cars and an F3A & B unit. That works out close to 32 feet, which I have determined to be the longest-practical size to run on this layout.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 19 Apr 2011 05:52 PM 

Railroads never built indoor storage yards for their rolling stock but they did build Roundhouses for their locomotives AND...

They often had Train Stations that were HUGE and COVERED for bringing entire passenger trains INDOORS to keep the passengers dry.


Of course, what I have to protect these consists is not a dedicated model building, but a part of the structure which also protects the Cicely model town above it. I never did construct a round house or any engine house for the ALCANEX line because it was unnecessary for the ALCANEX line. Nevertheless, I cannot imagine leaving rolling stock out in the elements when not in use. I never leave anything parked where it is subject to the intense rays of the sun OR precipitation once I am done running the line. Seems like common sense to me considering how rough the weather can be on rolling stock.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 19 Apr 2011 06:14 PM 
I never leave anything parked where it is subject to the intense rays of the sun OR precipitation once I am done running the line.



Hi Ron,

I was not suggesting that JJ should not protect his rolling stock but instead I was offering a suggestion that he might consider building it as sort of a train station (I think Marty said his train shed started out as a train station).

JJ is aware that I am finishing up my own 32' x 52" train shed for my own rolling stock.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

If I lived where you do I would probably be building a snow shed.









Regards,

Jerry


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ 
Come,,,get out of the sun... 
You can weld, maybe make a raised one so you don't have to bend down. 
there again once the cars are in you don't need to mess with them to much anyway. 

I always wondered why U have not used the first 3ft under your deck and enclose it for starters. Come out each end. should be safe under there.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By CapeCodSteam on 19 Apr 2011 12:40 PM 
Mik, you pull out the greatest pictures. Do you have any of Scottish 12 wheel dining carriages from the 20s to mid 30s? 
Like this?









Never much looked for them. Try here to start? 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...&q=lms+dining+car+12+wheel&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By John J on 19 Apr 2011 03:59 PM 
My orginal thought was jus build one huge terminal building 4 FT x 32 Feet. Figured two tracks in every 12 inches. 

JJ

PS Forgot my 10 years of USA Banquet cars from TBS. 


Hi JJ,

You have probably thought of this but, just in case you have not, there are a few things worth mentioning:

1. "Figured two tracks in every 12 inches" - that allows only six inches between tracks center to center (only 3 inches center to outer limit). This strikes me as being too close both because of the width of some cars and because in a 32' siding the tracks may shift a bit due to heat etc. forcing them closer together. Six inch siding clearances suggest to me sharply curved turnouts which can be a problem by themselves with some locos and rolling stock.

2. Allow for overhang as cars enter the sidings where they are likely to hit other cars already on an adjacent siding. The middle of long cars can also extend the car far enough to hit a car on an adjacent siding as it swings into the siding.

3. I have found cabooses with side marker lights (such as LGB 4065's) are the worst offenders in that the side marker lanterns hang out quite a bit more than other rolling stock. Two side-by-side sidings that both have such cabooses will often have the side marker lanterns of one caboose hit the side marker lanterns of the other caboose.

4. If there are any curves on the mainlines next to the sidings there can be a clearance problem when a large loco such as a Mikado enters the curve where the front or rear (especially the cab) swings out and can hit a car parked on an adjacent siding.

5. If you have a shed with entry and exit on one end only (such as mine is) there can be a strong tendency - especially for heavy passenger cars and long cars - to derail when being backed into the sidings. This is especially a problem when the car is forced through an "S" curve without at least one straight track equal to the maximum length of the car going through the "S" curve. This can be very tough if not impossible to do in some circumstances. Sometimes I just live with the occasional derailments or by trial and error I find combinations of locos and rolling stock and turnouts (or operating techniques) that minimize the derailments.

6. Some locos (especially large steam locos like LGB Mikados) don't like being backed into sidings especially when backing heavy consists into the sidings. The locos frequently derail or force the first car behind them to derail. For this reason it is a good idea to be sure to have quick and easy access to the turnouts feeding the sidings.

I suspect that with a 48" train shed, after allowing perhaps 8 inches for the walls, that six or seven would be the maximum number of sidings that will work safely but your circumstances may be very different and what works for me may be very different from what you are able to do. I often break my own rules and sometimes I get away with it and other times I have to make adjustments (such as re-railing cars and locos).

Good luck,

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Jerry 

Thanks for you list of "conciderations" Some I thought of Some I did not. It was a good refresher. That is why I like topost here on MLS. The Insite I get from the members saves me a lot of pain and agony later on.

What I pland on doing was laying one track next to the wall for clearance. Then the next one with clearance and so on. 

My bridge accross Cozad Crossing is 12 inches wide ( inside dementions) and Yes It is a little close. I use wire anchors like I do for my Concrete road bed and just before running I have to check the track.

The "tracks" are going to be 1/2 x 1/2 angle iron. I was thinking wood like Marty but I think the dry desert air will be a problem. 

All my couplers are Body mount which allows me to back up long trains. I have backed up a 35 car train at Marty's the length of it's self with no problem. 

If you think of any more pit falls let me know 

JJ


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By John J on 20 Apr 2011 10:11 AM 
Jerry 

Thanks for you list of "conciderations" Some I thought of Some I did not. It was a good refresher. 
If you think of any more pit falls let me know 

JJ 



Hi JJ,

My list was simply a confession of my own mistakes. Everything I mentioned was referring to something I did that did not work out the way I had expected.

In most cases I left everything the way I did it because the reality was that I did not have enough space to redo it "correctly" so I am in the position of being constantly reminded of the things I mentioned.

The reality is that I let the turnouts determine my siding spacing. LGB R1 turnouts with LGB R1 curves determine one set of spacings; LGB R3 turnouts with R3 curves have determined the rest. 

With the new train shed the Aristo wide (10')' turnouts with the Aristo matching curves are determining the siding spacings for me. That is how I came up with my 6 - 7 sidings for my sheds.

Sometimes I had to change the rolling stock to fit it on particular sidings such as trying to avoid putting two LGB Drover's cabooses on adjacent sidings.

Oh! there IS one more...

7. Rolling stock with ball bearing wheels are like the 1:1 caboose I am in which also has ball bearing wheels. No matter how flat you think your sidings are, rolling stock with ball bearing wheels WILL probably start rolling on it.









This too is a personal confession from when I stupidly pulled out the 2" x 4" that was acting as a wheel stop. I thought my track was perfectly level only to watch the 52,000 pound caboose start rolling - and I had removed all brake rods etc. preparing the caboose to move it here.









Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 20 Apr 2011 06:49 AM 
Posted By John J on 19 Apr 2011 03:59 PM 
My orginal thought was jus build one huge terminal building 4 FT x 32 Feet. Figured two tracks in every 12 inches. 

JJ



Hi JJ,

You have probably thought of this but, just in case you have not, there are a few things worth mentioning:

1. "Figured two tracks in every 12 inches" - that allows only six inches between tracks center to center (only 3 inches center to outer limit). This strikes me as being too close both because of the width of some cars and because in a 32' siding the tracks may shift a bit due to heat etc. forcing them closer together. Six inch siding clearances suggest to me sharply curved turnouts which can be a problem by themselves with some locos and rolling stock.Good luck,

Jerry




Hey JJ,

I was wrong and I owe you an apology for giving you incorrect advice. [/b]









Six inches spacing between tracks sounded way too close to me but I just finished straightening the tracks in my new train shed and - boy was I surprised - the track spacing (as determined by Aristo-Craft Wide (10') turnouts with matching Aristo curves) turned out to be SIX INCHES!

I checked, rechecked and checked again but six inches it is and six inches is what it will remain. 

I even got a couple of Aristo-Craft Long Steel Cabooses with side marker lights to check the clearance of the side marker lights and there was plenty of room to spare between the marker lights of cabooses on adjacent sidings.

It turns out that my advice was totally wrong. It looks like your original plan for 6" track spacing was right in the first place.









Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Jerry 

I just asked what our spacing was in your thread on your car barn. That was before I read this one.

This is my 12 inch wide bridge accross Cozad Crossing.












Some times it gets a little tight when the tracks shift.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

JJ,

If I knew how to weld I might have tried to make a bridge like that. Unfortunately the last time I tried to weld something I fried two DirecTV recorders and some other stuff. Fortunately the recorders were under a service contract and I guess they assumed there was a lightning strike nearby (close enough).

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 24 Apr 2011 11:28 AM 
JJ,

If I knew how to weld I might have tried to make a bridge like that. Unfortunately the last time I tried to weld something I fried two DirecTV recorders and some other stuff. Fortunately the recorders were under a service contract and I guess they assumed there was a lightning strike nearby (close enough).

Jerry


Welding is not that diffacult. I taught myself how to weld and that bridge was the first thing I built.

Then Denray and a bunch of other MLS members help me inprove my skils. 

JJ


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By John J on 24 Apr 2011 09:57 PM 
Posted By Jerry McColgan on 24 Apr 2011 11:28 AM 
JJ,

If I knew how to weld I might have tried to make a bridge like that. Unfortunately the last time I tried to weld something I fried two DirecTV recorders and some other stuff. Fortunately the recorders were under a service contract and I guess they assumed there was a lightning strike nearby (close enough).

Jerry


Welding is not that diffacult. I taught myself how to weld and that bridge was the first thing I built.

Then Denray and a bunch of other MLS members help me inprove my skils. 

JJ 



I bought a small Harbor Freight MIG welder from a surplus store and a friend was helping me with it to weld a new smokestack to the roof of the caboose. There must have been a poor ground or perhaps the caboose itself is not well enough grounded because several electronic items in the caboose were fried. Now I'm too leery of the welder to try it again (not knowing for sure what was wrong).

The problem with welders is that they can do some serious damage to people and things when the owner does not know how to confirm that they are safe to use..

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 25 Apr 2011 05:32 AM 
Posted By John J on 24 Apr 2011 09:57 PM 
Posted By Jerry McColgan on 24 Apr 2011 11:28 AM 
JJ,

If I knew how to weld I might have tried to make a bridge like that. Unfortunately the last time I tried to weld something I fried two DirecTV recorders and some other stuff. Fortunately the recorders were under a service contract and I guess they assumed there was a lightning strike nearby (close enough).

Jerry


Welding is not that diffacult. I taught myself how to weld and that bridge was the first thing I built.

Then Denray and a bunch of other MLS members help me inprove my skils. 

JJ 



I bought a small Harbor Freight MIG welder from a surplus store and a friend was helping me with it to weld a new smokestack to the roof of the caboose. There must have been a poor ground or perhaps the caboose itself is not well enough grounded because several electronic items in the caboose were fried. Now I'm too leery of the welder to try it again (not knowing for sure what was wrong).

The problem with welders is that they can do some serious damage to people and things when the owner does not know how to confirm that they are safe to use..

Jerry
I wonder if the caboose it's self has a ground problem. You may want to check to see of the frame of the caboose is grounded. It if is you may want to check the ground connection


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By John J on 25 Apr 2011 08:38 AM 


I wonder if the caboose it's self has a ground problem. You may want to check to see of the frame of the caboose is grounded. It if is you may want to check the ground connection 




I suspect you are right. I "grounded" the caboose with #2 cable to a grounded meter pole about 50 feet away but that may not be sufficient with the amps from a welder.

I bought a new ground rod about 6 months ago but I have not yet put it in the ground.









A funny thing is that I have had phone or satellite TV people ground their systems to the track rails - never noticing that the rails are insulated from the ground by the railroad ties. 

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I wish you should look into it soon Jerry....There is some potential danger there.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By John J on 25 Apr 2011 04:06 PM 
I wish you should look into it soon Jerry....There is some potential danger there. 

You are right JJ and since my career was based on electrical products for so many years there is no excuse for me but I have so many projects up in the air lightning usually has to strike before I do what I know I need to do.

Right now that "lightning strike" is in the form of a guy who just left after telling me he would cut the two trees down that are dead and overhanging the caboose - for $500. 

Actually that is a lot cheaper than I was told to expect and I may have to pay it.









I believe what happened was that when they dug the water lines for the caboose and camper they cut the roots of the trees killing them. I just happened to look up a few days ago and noticed the leaves on those two trees are still attached and dead.

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/je...0trees.jpg

Now I guess I have to do something before the trees fall on the caboose and or camper with me inside. You can tell by how much taller than the caboose they are that the trees are big enough to do some major damage. There is no way that I can cut them down without them falling directly on the caboose and or camper.

When we live in the country (as you know) there is always something coming up that is totally unexpected.

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By NTCGRR on 19 Apr 2011 07:30 PM 
JJ 
Come,,,get out of the sun... 
You can weld, maybe make a raised one so you don't have to bend down. 
there again once the cars are in you don't need to mess with them to much anyway. 

I always wondered why U have not used the first 3ft under your deck and enclose it for starters. Come out each end. should be safe under there.
Well Marty you are close. The inside rail is going to be 1/2 x1/2 angle iron with welded spacers to give me the right guage. 

I keep coming back to this thread to view the great pictures that were posted. 

Yes it is going to be elavated. The engine shed is going to be smaller than the rest.

I am going to have battery charging capabilities in the engine shed. 



JJ


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By NTCGRR on 19 Apr 2011 07:30 PM 
JJ 
Come,,,get out of the sun... 
You can weld, maybe make a raised one so you don't have to bend down. 
there again once the cars are in you don't need to mess with them to much anyway. 

I always wondered why U have not used the first 3ft under your deck and enclose it for starters. Come out each end. should be safe under there.

I come back to this thread often and review it.

I am working on a elavated car barn so I don't have to get down on the ground to do things. 

I am still leaning towards a adobe style building. I would like to do a flat room with parapets and scuffes for drains. ( I think that is the term for roof drains) 

The hang up is Hinging the roof so I can open it. 

JJ


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

'Scuppers' I believe is the word. 

Consider a folding panel roof like the old closet doors. Roller tracks along either end and rods with wheels running length-wise. You only have to lift a section just enough to push it open. 
Using this type will allow you to keep it recessed below the wall tops. The acordian top keeps the weight on the rollers. Thin sheet metal welded to the rods forms the roof. 


OK this should be less than a 10 day project... git crackin'! lol 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Was thinking about hinges for that top and sections of pipe alernating between two panels over the rods would work and you'd weld your panels to the pipe... other wise I ws thinking folded over straps. 
Might not be water tight, but would be easy to lock. 

John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 15 May 2011 10:42 AM 
Was thinking about hinges for that top and sections of pipe alernating between two panels over the rods would work and you'd weld your panels to the pipe... other wise I ws thinking folded over straps. 
Might not be water tight, but would be easy to lock. 

John 

Good ideas. If the two panels were joined in the middled of the roof a strip of flasing over the crack could look like a seam in the roof. And would allow the bi fold to open.

JJ


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

A better ideal would be EagleWings Iron Crafts


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Minamum demention is 4 ft x 12 ft. Comtemplating 2 or 4 ft wide and 24 to 32 feet long. 

JJ

PS My plan is to put everything I have in rolling stock in these buildings. There thay have to be huge or many. I got several good Ideas from this thread.


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