# Pond auto fill question.



## Ron99 (May 7, 2010)

I use my auto sprinkler valve (solenoid) to fill my pond. It is on the timer for all the other yard zones (has its own zone). But now I want it to fill automatically through the same mechanism, but switch it on and off using a reed switch float in the pond. I've experimented with hooking up the reed switch and proceeded to burn one out before I saw a circuit diagram with a varistor in parallel with the solenoid. So I bought another switch and put in the varistor. No luck. It won't turn on the solenoid valve. I know the reed switch idea has been in the forum before, but I need help with the circuitry needed to support it. Thanks.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Reed switches typically don't handle enough current, and inductive loads (things with magnet wire like motors and solenoids) cause problems, even with "snubber" diodes and running on DC. 

Leviton makes a professional unit with a 2 prong sensor that conducts and triggers the unit when the water contacts them. 

Not cheap but reliable. 

I can get the part number if you want to spend $$, have 2 for my fountains. 

Regards, Greg


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## Ron99 (May 7, 2010)

Sure if you wouldn't mind. I need to do something pretty soon.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

oops, it's levolor, not leviton... but found it:

*http://www.westsidewholesale.com/ja...-220v.html* 


*http://www.jandy.com/pdfs/L1057_Levolor_SellTech.pdf* 


Guess it's more expensive than I remember, although I think this one included a valve, I got the one with just the electrical outputs to drive a valve/solenoid.

This should get you started.

Regards, Greg


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## Ron99 (May 7, 2010)

Thanks Greg,

Yep it's pricey, but it looks like it will do the job quite well. Now I have to figure out how to get the wires from the sensor to the solenoid valve....hmmmm. One bore question. Do you use the skimmer sensor or the standpipe? I'm thinking of using the standpipe as I wouldn't have to run a new line from the skimmer sensor to the solenoid valve, as I already put one in last year. My solenoid valve is about 30' from the pond - straight through the railroad.

ron


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## bvdrr (Jan 3, 2008)

I was thinking I saw a device at a Farm and Home Store that was used to keep a horse tank full.It was more or less just a float and valve combination. Would something like this be of use? sure would be alot cheaper and simpler.
Fred


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe mine is the K-1100 model, and I use a single sensor to stop the fill. I have an overflow system so any overflow goes into the drain, so I don't need the dual sensors or the more complicated setup.

The unit merely adds water when the level is low. The sensor is the black one in the illustration with 2 stainless steel "fingers", and I have it out in the open near the surface.

These are the 2 fountains:


















I brought a pvc pipe into the interior of each one to run the sensor wire, then have the sensor wire come out, and "hang" the sensor from the pipe with a clamp to adjust the level.


Regards, Greg


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## Ron99 (May 7, 2010)

the K1100 looks like it will fit the bill. I need to add water to keep the pump submerged. Living in NM there's a lot of evaporation. I also get some "splash" from a fairly long stream. During the summer, I have to be careful and keep increasing the duration of filling as the evaporation goes up. Overfilling is not really a big problem, as it will run over the edge of the pond and water the grass (more like weeds). So now, I need to drive a pipe under the walk to put the low voltage wires from the control module to the valve. Oh, and buy the unit! 

Thanks Greg, 

Ron


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I gave up on timers to fill my pond. Last year I simply ran a hose from the hose bib to a toilet tank fill valve in the "Pump House" of my pond. No batteries to replace. No buttons to push. All I need to do is adjust the float elevation with the turn of a small knob. And thats rare.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

I have also used float valves designed for cattle water troughs, with excellent results. I would think that reed switched, sensors, solenoids, etc. are just ways to make a simple solution complicated. Rube Goldberg would approve.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I use a reed switch as a float sensor to drain my lake from standing sprinkler water twice a day.

The reed switch triggers a 12 volt relay that switches on the pump. At first I kept burning out relay contacts even though they were rated well in excess of the pump's rating. Then I put a 2.5 ohm inrush thermistor in series with the pump lead both coming into and going out of the relay (probably overkill). I've not burned out another relay since.

These are what I use. I also use them in places to slow trains and where trains pause to slow them a bit and reduce the inrush current as they restart.

2.5 ohm Inrush Thermistor

This is how I did the float switch:


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, startup inrush on motors can be a lot higher than the constant amps. Everyone is familiar with lights dimming when a motor starts up. The choice of a current limiting device can be tricky if a motor is trying to start under a heavy load, i.e. you limit the current enough that there is not enough current to overcome the static "stall" condition. 

I'd guess in a fountain pump, it's not a problem, since these are not positive displacement, but normally a vane type impeller. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

I believe in the_ "KISS"_ principle so to maintain the water automatically I use a swamp cooler fill valve, it's been in the pond for about 10 or11 years


















The fill valve is disguised as a floating dock with a fisherman on it (the the frame work and the netting are to protect the Koi from the Heron)









I use a similar floating dock to disguise a floating under water light.


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## LogSkidder01 (Jul 30, 2009)

Check your local hardware store or farm coop for Stock Tank Floats. Small, inexpensive and no electricity. I have used them for many decades for the designed purpose and for garden ponds. 

Probably available at your local ACE Hardware: 

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=4096707 

But if you are into heavy duty stuff: 

http://www.deanbennett.com/windmill-catalog-page65.pdf 

And for about $7.50 you can get a cheap toilet tank float valve assembly at Home Depot. 

Ken


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

At my sister's million dollar remodeled home they put in an electrical leveler device for the swimming pool, after 4 service calls I told them to take it out and put in a mechanical device (re; toilet bowl float), been working fine ever since.... 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, and at my friend's 1.5 million dollar home, they put in a toilet bowl float valve, and it kept going out of adjustment and flooded the backyard several times, and they put in an electronic one that has the failsafe, the high water sensor as well as the low water sensor. 

One back yard flood cost the equivalent of two of the electronic devices. 

I can find examples of mechanical devices that last a long time, and ones that fail soon too. 

Whatever is reliable for you is what is best. 

I like systems with a fail safe. My waterfalls have an overflow standpipe that can handle the situation if the water does not shut off. 


Regards, Greg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dean Whipple on 09 May 2010 07:53 PM 
I believe in the_ "KISS"_ principle so to maintain the water automatically I use a swamp cooler fill valve, it's been in the pond for about 10 or11 years




The fill valve is disguised as a floating dock with a fisherman on it (the the frame work and the netting are to protect the Koi from the Heron)


I use a similar floating dock to disguise a floating under water light. 
..................................................................................................



We do about the same as Dean W.

We have a sprinkle valve with a timer and set to fill at night with a swamp cooler float valve hidden under a 6 foot wide walk bridge. Been there for over 15 yrs and only had to replace the cooler valve twice.
Our ponds are auto fill and cleaned to the back resovoir once a day.. This keeps the Koi 35 foot fish pond skimed and clean for yrs. 
Works great for us and now over 70 Koi in it. Most are around 1 to 2 foot long.
Another way is like our Irrigation ditches are set up using a wet / dry sencer at close to the end of the ditches that operaters a relay to a gate valve to drain off the Resivor. Find them at farm supplys 

PS...Dean W. Sure like that dock set up.. Neat idea..


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm afraid I'm just not that fancy. I have a pond with a waterfall in my garden and there is a very small leak that drains the pond in around a week if I don't fill it (my pond is quite small.) It takes 10 minutes to fill with a garden hose and the new water keeps the pond relatively clean. The garden hose is already there as I have to bring it over to water the flowers on a daily basis in the summer. I don't trust automatic things. Too many chances for "Mr. Murphy" to show up!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

"Yep, and at my friend's 1.5 million dollar home," 

Ooooh up the ante! Nice Greg! lol 

I just threw that in to counter recent hoof in mouth disease! Actually ... stoopid word sometimes! Seems I forgot my Jeopardy Protocol! 

In our case, too much water is way better than running 2 massive water pumps dry. A below deck tank supplies water for the Boarderless Pool effect in a tile patio. They wouldn't hear the differance 'til too late, but could easily see extra water. I live 30 miles away so it's set up as fail safe as possible... for them. The over flow pumps are user activated, by remote. 

But hey! I'm just offering advice on a take it or leave it basis. 

Have a great day. 

John


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ken, thanks for the link to the product at Ace. I've been following this thread because I'd like to do something similar with my pond and I think that will do the trick for me.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually John, it was not to up the ante, it was really funny because he had such an expensive setup, but the pool guy sure went on the cheap on the auto fill. One time the valve shot right off the supply line (it was running at full street pressure, not reduced pressure from the house)... a nice little fountain. 

Like I said, you can find examples of success or failure in the mechanical and the electronic solutions. My solution at my house was because a mechanical fill float valve would have been unsightly, and I DO like gadgets! 

Not a competition my friend. 

Regards, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Mine fills the need to get it to fit in a very tight space. Originally, I was using boat bilge pump float switches, but they were far more $$$, larger, and kept failing. This way I can take it apart for cleaning or repair. Theirs was a sealed unit and required an extra wire to run to it.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

The 500 gal fish pond has a toilet float. The 60 gal railroad pond just uses a chunk of buried hose connected to the hose bib on the house. The creek leaks a tad, so when the railroad is running, the pond pump is running and the fill hose is trickling. Keeps the fish happy, the water fresh and nothing to explode/flood, etc.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Greg, ' ad you seen me smiling you woulda known I was a laffin it off! ...at my $65 billion undersea floor well







....we tried the toilet float.... ...too sad to be funny.








And I took an opp to regret my use of 'Actually' elsewhere...









We know you Love gadgets!......Yours are Edison inspired while mine are Rube Goldberg's.









John


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## Ron99 (May 7, 2010)

Actually, the original idea of filling automatically came from toddilan's post about his autodrain system last summer or fall. I thought I could do a similar thing with my solenoid valve semi-automatic fill system installed and functioning for the past three years. What I'm trying to avoid is the variable evaporation rate over the summer resulting in low water and the pump triggering the internal breaker (can't be a good thing). I was figuring I could add the small reed switch float to come on when the pond level dropped too low: all within the time frame of of the daily fill cycle of my auto timer system for the garden (being of the lazy sort, without it everything croaks). I had purchased the inrush transistors, reed switch, pulled a wiring diagram for the inrush transistor from the internet, and was ready to go. Trial wire-up: bingo "fault" indicating a short. Reviewed the wiring diagram, everything was ok, hence the post. Then, the reply indicating the inrush transistors needed to be in SERIES with the solenoid valve. Hmmmmm....wiring diagram was wrong..or operator error. Either way (there's a reason I'm a civil, not electrical engineer - long story...lots of smoke and sparks in the EE lab) IT WORKS. Thanks so much.

So now I don't have to replumb the whole back yard. I've got both high and low level control backup if the system stops working (high level is the pond overflows and waters the grass); AND I've got s sensitive fill system that will handle the evaporation issue.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Ron99 on 14 May 2010 03:49 PM 
Actually, the original idea of filling automatically came from toddilan's post about his autodrain system last summer or fall. I thought I I had purchased the inrush transistors, reed switch, pulled a wiring diagram for the inrush transistor from the internet, and was ready to go. Trial wire-up: bingo "fault" indicating a short. Reviewed the wiring diagram, everything was ok, hence the post. Then, the reply indicating the inrush transistors needed to be in SERIES with the solenoid valve. Hmmmmm....wiring diagram was wrong..or operator error. Either way (there's a reason I'm a civil, not electrical engineer - long story...lots of smoke and sparks in the EE lab) IT WORKS. Thanks so much.

So now I don't have to replumb the whole back yard. I've got both high and low level control backup if the system stops working (high level is the pond overflows and waters the grass); AND I've got s sensitive fill system that will handle the evaporation issue.











I think that you are confusing a metal oxide varistor (MOV) with an inrush thermistor (they look similar too). Both are used in circuit protection. The MOV would typically be used to suppress voltage spikes in the line while the thermistor protects the circuit from the spike during the turn-on inrush.

While the varistor would be wired in parallel, the thermistor is in series. If you had the thermistor in parallel, you had a 2.5 ohm path directly to ground and that's why stuff didn't work. Glad you got it figured out.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Why not use a sump pump float switch. I have one in my "pump house" to protect the pump from low water, if it should occur. The float switch is equipped with a cord long enough to reach the outlet that your present pump is plugged into. The plug on the end of the float switch has a male and female makeup. Simply plug the float switch into the power receptacle then plug the pump into the back of the float switch plug.


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