# Beware of the Harbor Freight Chainsaw Chain Sharpener!



## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

I picked up one of those saw-chain sharpeners awhile back and yesterday I finally got around to setting it up. Kinda chintzy overall, but you can--or at least I can--hold the side angle on a tooth better than by hand.

It has a serious flaw: the hub to which the grinding blade attaches comes off the motor shaft. It's just sorta lightly pressed on there, with a flat on the shaft. It looks almost like they forgot to put a setscrew on that hub, which I'll do tomorrow. I'll have to drill it out and thread it. It also looks possible to drill out the end of the shaft and put in a L/H cap screw. It's already got a hole in in it.

Anyway, I'd done one chain to get the feel of it, and while I was doing the second the whole hub assy came off the shaft, hit the machine, my forearm (no blood), my chest and went over my shoulder and landed on the floor where it chipped itself. Don't know if it's still useable. Those disks look like regular cutting disks except for a 7/8" arbor hole.

I'd left the side guard off because either the wheel/disk is not true, or the hub face isn't, and I was playing around trying to figure out which was the culprit causing the disk to wobble while working on these old saw-chains. As it stands, I wouldn't recommend buying one, even though they're on sale for ~$26.xx unless you don't mind doing some truing up and putting in a retaining screw.

I also had to put a spacer in the swinging arm that backs up the tooth under work to keep it from rocking backwards. (It still doesn't if you're not careful, but that's something I can live with.) Altogether, not enough 'meat' for the job and a poor design on that hub.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I stopped buying things at Harbor Freight.. 
I discovered they are the Walmart of tool stores..nothing but cheap Chinese junk.. 

Scot


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Scotty,

Eeeehhh ... that's a debatable issue. I happen to like their tools (save for edged tools of any kind except sawblades). A purchaser does have to keep in mind that the given machine will need some 'help', it's not a out-of-the-box proposition, ofttimes. Other times, they're good and last a long while. I think it helps if a person is a tool person, rather than one who views tools as a means to an end. The major advantage is the savings over places like MicroMark, etc.

Les


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm with you Les, HF does have it's place... but remember what you're paying for, less than first class. 

I'm a handy man for my sister, sometimes I need a one time tool and a HF wonder goes for the same as a rental. 
When the job is done I still have the tool, what ever further use I get is gravy. 

I'm not expecting a 'last a lifetime' tool, rather one good enough to do the task. 

John


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, generally no problems with HF tools. My wet stone/paver saw cost less than $300 for a full set up. Surely beats a $100/day rental. My wrench sets have been very durable (from small to 2 inch+ plus sizes for working on the tractor). Would I buy HF tools for everything? No, but at 1/2 to 1/5 the price for some items, it surely pays! 

-Brian


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

From the sound of the above post's 
Harbor Freight could be owned by Kadar Industries. 
That is tounge in cheek gentlemen, don't blow a gasket. 
Rick Marty


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm with John, they are not super quality, or super accurate, but for a one or 2 time use, good idea. 

Regards, Greg


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Rick,

I'm pretty difficult to insult. But, who the heck is 'Kadar Ind.'? I'm thinking Aristo, but that can't be ... can it?









Les


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Les, 
I think parent of B'mann 

John


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

John,

I didn't post this to Scott because I'm not into trying to change anyone's mind, but I have a Buffalo 1/2" drive impact wrench (air) which is almost 30 years old. For about 15 of those years, I had 22 wheels on the ground, my own balancer and tire changer. That wrench is still in good shape. My son has my old Buffalo 1/2" floor drill press, multiple speed, that is near the same age, and I used it on a job for a year where I did light production-type work. It's still just as good as ever. I did have to replace the belts, once.
















Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Brian,

That's another good point: your paver would cost how much from a stateside industry? That chainsaw sharpener cost $36, while a new Foley--the only one I know of who builds saw sharpeners, is in the thousands of dollar range. At $20/chain, I've almost paid for it already, and I have reason to suspect, now that I can hold at least a minimal repeatable tolerance from tooth to tooth, I'm sort of underwhelmed by the quality of whoever sharpened that chain the last time.

Les


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Les, 

Is Buffalo a subsidery of Chicago Electric? 

Don't those names just reek American Quality? lol 

I wonder how many name brand name tools are coming from China or being assembled from Chinese parts? I was looking inside my crashed Dell and many components are chinese made... 

John


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Anybody tried their router bits, 1/2" shank?? 
They've got a set of 24 for around $60 with tungesten carbide cutting tips that sure looks inviting, but if they're likely to be junk, I'll pass...


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

John,

A short list of once-American tools that are made in China/India/Taiwan that I know of personally are: Craftsman & Stanley.

I've had excellent luck with Buffalo power tools. Now, I'm not at all in favor of Chinese hand tools, and I'm getting to where I'm suspicious of these 7-1/2" saw blades that HF sells, I've had two break at the slots.

But hey, with all the good old US sawblades to be found in garage sales for 50 cents, and my new (though untried) HF saw blade sharpener, I'm set for the rest of my life.









Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Duncan,

I know which ones you're talking about because I bought an identical set at Home Despot on closeout for under $30. The clerk assured me they were American made. About a month later I saw the same set at HF.

Short answer: I don't know if they're any good or not, I haven't tried mine. But, I've used a lot of the 10" carbide tipped blades on my table and chop saws, and they give acceptable-to-excellent service. The 7-1/2" blades for circular saws are a different matter: I've had two crack, one jammed the saw.

The biggest question we all face is: "Do I buy cheap bits often, or expensive bits less often?" Few people trouble to resharpen bits anymore, insofar as I know.

Les


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Duncan on 07 Aug 2009 10:48 AM 
Anybody tried their router bits, 1/2" shank?? 
They've got a set of 24 for around $60 with tungesten carbide cutting tips that sure looks inviting, but if they're likely to be junk, I'll pass... 
I have the set with 1/4" shanks...painted in blue paint. ( http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...mber=46832 ) They work great. Have used them multiple times on different projects. 

Someday...I'll get one of those 4HP 1/2" routers...I drool over having one.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

I use this set of pliers all the time.. I think I got it on sale for $4 or something.. Best $4 I ever spent.. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...mber=31675


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## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

I saw one of these and decided not to buy it. I cut and split about 6 cords each year. I use a stihl 440 with a 20 inch bar. 
The wood I cut is all large hardwood butt ends dragged out by a skidder. First I clean or debark one side with an axe. Then i cut so the teeth go into the clean side and out the dirty side. Roll with a peavy so I don't cut into any dirty bark or the ground. I can go along time between filing. 
I see the macho guys bull right into the dirty log, not me. I get a new file quite often. Having a spare chain is better yet. I use a Carlton "file a plate" as a giude and for the rakers i use a raker guage and flat file. Take care of the chain and filing goes quick. This is what works for me..


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

I'm with chrisb - forget the motorized grinder sharpeners and use a simple saw file and filing guide. You can touch up a whole chain in a matter of minutes, right on the jobsite if necessary.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Jim,

I gave up on those clamp-on file guides a long time ago and just free-handed it. But now my eyes and wrists don't do so well and I found I was rounding the corners. I got the sharpener because I got tired of paying $20 for a custom sharpening job.

Anyway, I got the thing fixed today: a setscrew in the hub and off we went. I figure I've made my investment back and have saved some money. I have a spare sharp chain for my little Stihl, and on rare occasions I switch out. Now I won't have to take the other to the shop.


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## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

I have not had good luck with the clamp on guides, one end of the plate I use sits in the gullet and the other on top of the tooth in front. The files rides on top of the plate. It maintains the hook angle. I used to file by eye but with large wood, the saw would cut at an angle as not all the teeth were cutting the same. If I used the saw more I might buy a shapening machine. The one I looked at was at a tool sale and was all plastic. I didn't think it would hold up. But at the sale I bought a micro lathe. The price was less than HF. Its a 4 x 5 or something like that. I figure iI can always get a bigger one if I need to.


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 07 Aug 2009 12:03 PM 
Posted By Duncan on 07 Aug 2009 10:48 AM 
Anybody tried their router bits, 1/2" shank?? 
They've got a set of 24 for around $60 with tungesten carbide cutting tips that sure looks inviting, but if they're likely to be junk, I'll pass... 
I have the set with 1/4" shanks...painted in blue paint. ( http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...mber=46832 ) They work great. Have used them multiple times on different projects. 

Someday...I'll get one of those 4HP 1/2" routers...I drool over having one. 


These were the bits I was referring to...


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...mber=90298

Will go into this:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...e+Trimmers

Not a 4HP, but pretty nice for the coin (even better if you can catch it with the $20 Craftsman Club discount)...


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Duncan...note in the set you are looking at that the title says 1/2" shank...and the detail says 1/4" shank. Something is not kosher...


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Chris,

Is that micro lathe by any chance painted red? Is it made in China? The reason I'm asking is that I have a Chinese 7 x10" which I've not gotten cleaned and set up yet although I've had it since early last spring. I went down to HF looking for something else and saw a new model lathe, a little tiny thing also made in China: it has no half-nuts, thus no thread cutting. But for a small lathe for model work, it looked great. It was $235, best I can remember.

On mine, to be able to cut Imperial (SAE, or American) threads, I'd have to buy a new leadscrew and half-nuts and indicator. For metric threads, it's fine the way it is. But it occurred to me that for the very small diameter screws used in model RRing, it's just as easy to get a button-die attachment for the tailstock and cut threads that way. Probably a lot easier for a non-machinist type.

Had I seen it before I got my 7 x 10, I'd have gotten it. But two lathes are kinda hard to justify, even to a tool nut like me. Anyway, I need a mini mill worse. I'm thinking I'll get the MicoMark one, also Chinese but with some extras that'll make it easier to use. But that's far in the future.

The saw sharpener from HF _is_ pretty far down the scale, but it has one thing going for it: it does the job. I fixed it today and finished sharpening that chain, I have three more to go and I think I'm caught up.







Point of fact, I don't think I'd recommend it to a casual user. Better to pay $20 and have someone else do it once every year or so. In the meantime, keep it dressed lightly with the file.

If I hadn't pigged out on chili & tamales, I'd go down to the shop and set up my new hydraulic bench-mount press that I got a couple of weeks ago. (HF, too.) I pinched the snot out of my fingertip trying to straighten a bent axle (out of an R/C car) and I decided 'no more of this crap.'

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Mike,

Maybe they included a bushing?









Les


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 07 Aug 2009 05:30 PM 
Duncan...note in the set you are looking at that the title says 1/2" shank...and the detail says 1/4" shank. Something is not kosher... Mike,
Picture appears to indicate 1/2 shank...
I haven't gone up to see 'em yet, but figure that my eyesight should be good enough to discern the delta...









Les,
Sorry, didn't intend to hijack your thread...


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have two tools from them that are a bit of an enigma. 

One is a fine tooth 1/4 socket handle. 

The other is a Central Pneuatic 3/8 air ratchet. 

The 1/4 fine tooth could be mistaken for my Facom unit if I were not to look closely. 

The CP wind ratchet is identical to a high dollar Japanese one, the brand eludes me (Koken?) at the moment however.... 

Copycast, cast of dies, seconds....not sure.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Duncan wrote " Sorry, didn't intend to hijack your thread...









Duncan,

This isn't 'my' thread. I don't own it and don't care the least if it wanders around. I learn lots that way. Plus a few good chuckles along with.

Les


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 07 Aug 2009 06:13 PM 

Copycast, cast of dies, seconds....not sure. 
NOT copies is what they are...intentional reuse of the molds and dies...and made in the exact same factory I might add. All (that might be an overstatement) of the tool companies that USED to be in the US...have sold out and moved to China. Black and Decker is now owner of MANY of the ex-midwestern tool companies...and I think it's headquarters is now in Hong Kong. DeWalt now has it's tools made in China. Production in Canada has been reduced substantially. Milwaukee is still headquartered in the US...but I think like DeWalt, many of their tools are made in China now. 


THAT MEANS...the molds and dies are in China...for the cases and for the metal structures within the tool...and the motors...and the switches...well...the whole tool. The day when parts used to shipped to the US for assembly is pretty much over for most tools.


It's NOT an accident that many of the HF tools looks exactly like the "American" manufacturers tools...they're using the same molds. The difference is further inside. Cheaper bearings that fit the same mold lines are being installed by just changing how the frame is machined. The good stuff has ball bearings...the HF versions have sleeve bearings. Cheaper motors with smaller armatures and wire are made. Cheaper cords that are less flexible are used...something very obvious if you look. Cheaper switches...often lacking the rubber dust covers. Cheaper brushes...like half the size of the professional versions. 


And...this is being done by the tool makers themselves. It's NOT the "Chinese" illegally copying the tools. This is all about intentional cloning...to get several tools out of one set of engineering drawings and molds.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting Mike. 

For example, I just checked and it apears that Facom are now part of Stanley, and I know a lot of Stanley stuff is made in China. A use of "The Google on The Internets" turned up this: 

http://www.asianproducts.com/produc...913624.htm 

All my Facom stuff is ten plus years old, and was made by cheese eating surrender monkeys. 

I will give up working on stuff if I find out Stahlwille has stoped production in Germany. Maybe I should replace those missing/broken screw drivers soon......


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Horable Fright is a mixed bag of fecal matter. Some of thier stuff is good for the price and some of it is no good if it was free. I have a power hacksaw I bought over 6 years ago. It sits out side nakid in all weather. It sill cuts well with a sharp blade. I am thinking of gettina another one and set it up for angle cuts. I burned up one motor because I left it un attended and it jamed. The replacement motor has a thermal over load on it. I was using thier Chicago Electric cordless drill batteries for my battery power on my trains. The last batch I got wont hold a charge. You just got to pick and choose what you get there. It was thier engine hoist/cherry picker that I used for years to move rocks for my layout. I even used it to move the 480 LB tunnel in place.( You all remember that feasco.)


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

John wrote: "You just got to pick and choose what you get there."

That's right, and it helps if you have some knowledge about the job a given tool is going to be expected to do. Looking at the welds under that orange paint is a great idea, some look like 'cat turds' (a welder's term) and others look like whoever laid 'em knew his stuff.

Two things I've learned from this saw-sharpener episode is: 1) I'll never buy another power tool w/o taking it out of the box and looking it over. I bought one of their mini-table saws with the 4" blade, got it home and it was a bring-back and the blade was dulled in one quadrant on one side. BUT. The table lines up perfectly with the blade, and so do the miter gauge slots. Though the miter gauge itself is a tad tiny for my tastes, it is after all a saw for cutting small things. I'll post on it one of these days with some pixes. It cost me ~ $30 with my preferred customer (me and a million other guys) 20% discount. 2) I might've passed on this chain-sharpener if I'd seen how really flexible the case is, but probably not. After all, once I got the hub where it'd stay on the motor, it works better, less disk cutter wobble since I put in the setscrew. That flex is actually rather handy when you hit a tooth that's really bit a nail, you can press sideways and grind another .015" or so. Definitely not a tool for impatient beginners, however, or the non-tool person in general--I wouldn't recommend it. For those who pretty much know what's going on and are not fashion conscious, it's an okay tool.

I have one of their power hacksaws, a floor mount, that's a dead-ringer copy of a Rockwell we had at work. Mine is approaching 30 years old, and maybe 10 years ago I found a big puddle of fish gut oil under the gearbox. I thought about it for awhile, wondering where I'd ever get another seal, then cleaned the gearbox as best I could and packed it with lithium chassis grease. I used it a lot, after, in blacksmithing. The worst thing was, on a cold morning I'd have to roll the motor over by hand to get it running. 1/3 hp motor. Mine looks exactly like the ones you see offered new at HF, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Mike posted: "...but I think like DeWalt, many of their tools are made in China now."

Y'know, I've wondered about that. A few years ago, if you didn't have DeWalt you weren't with it. In the last few years I've seen 'em for sale in Sears/K-mart and the chatter has gone quiet.

We had DeWalt in the shop at work until I got high enough in the ranks to get rid of 'em. I've never been around a more unhandy, dangerous bunch of tools in my life. The only one I can still remember was the contractor's radial arm saw. It seemed to live to bite people, and to use it was like standing in front of an endless shotgun, the way it threw chips.

So, DeWalt is now an official Offshore Tool, too? Pleased to learn that.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Clarifying and amplifying information....

Black and Decker is a US corporation...and is NOT located in Hong Kong...it's in Towson, MD...and looks to be managed by Americans from the names they list on their Board of Directors....so I was wrong to say they'd moved to Hong Kong. 


From their comany site.... 


"Corporate Profile

Black & Decker is a global manufacturer and marketer of quality power tools and accessories, hardware and home improvement products, and technology-based fastening systems. Our products and services are marketed in more than 100 countries, and we have manufacturing operations in 11 countries. Throughout our businesses, we have established a reputation for product innovation, quality, end-user focus, design, and value. Our strong brand names and new product development capabilities enjoy worldwide recognition, and our global distribution is unsurpassed in our industries.

Vision Statement

Black & Decker's objective is to establish itself as the preeminent global manufacturer and marketer of power tools and accessories, hardware and home improvement products, and technology-based fastening systems.

Business Segments

Power Tools and Accessories

The Power Tools and Accessories segment manufactures and markets power tools, lawn and garden products, portable power products, home products, and accessories under the Black & Decker®, DEWALT®, Porter-Cable® and Delta® names, as well as other trademarks and trade names. This segment also provides product service and operates factory outlet stores. Headquartered in Towson, Maryland, this segment accounted for sales in 2008 of more than $4.3 billion...." 

I also learned from one of the general contractor sites that the label on a DeWalt tool tells you which division of DeWalt is responsible for the tool...and NOT where it's made. So, if the tool says Germany, it means the German division of Black and Decker was responsible for developing and building the tool. It does NOT convey where the tool was made, as it could have been made or assembled in any of their plants..and the parts could have come from any of the B&D plants.


Now...regarding Chicago Electric tools...I found VERY little about this company. From what I can piece together, this outfit buys knockoff tools from tool manufacturers...but doesn't actually own the factories. They sell their product to Harbor Freight...and to other discount companies where they affix the discount companies "brand" to it...places like Target, K-Mart, etc. There's a pretty good discussion about Chicago Electric tools on the Do-It-Yourself forum at http://www.diyprojects.info/bb/ftopic6143.html . There was substantial discussion regarding several of the Chicago Electric tools being a dead ringer copy of Mikita tools. 


I recall several other forum posts I've read where there is discussion of Chicago Electric tools being dead ringer copies of Porter Cable tools. Now...with the B&D statement "...as well as other trademarks and tradenames" in their own literature...my guess is that Chicago Electric might be one of the buyers of these "knockoffs". 


MORE...regarding Black and Decker...from the company history (my emphasis added):


"Black & Decker continued to churn out new products in the early 2000s, but sales and earnings growth stagnated in the sluggish economic environment. A number of cost-saving measures were enacted, including a three-year restructuring plan launched in early 2002. The key objective of this plan was to reduce manufacturing costs by shifting production from the United States and England to lower-cost facilities in Mexico, China, and the Czech Republic; and *by sourcing more products from third-party manufacturers*. Several U.S. plants were closed that year and the following one, including the facility in Easton, Maryland, *the last of B&D's home-state plant**s.* Restructuring charges for 2001, 2002, and 2003 totaled $99.7 million, $46.6 million, and $31.6 million, respectively. The company estimated that over the three-year period it eliminated 5,200 positions in high-cost manufacturing locations and added 4,500 replacement positions in low-cost locales. By 2003 the restructuring had already yielded $50 million in annual cost savings, and B&D expected to achieve $130 million in yearly savings by 2005."


The whole history of Black and Decker is at http://www.answers.com/topic/the-bl...orporation . It's an interesting read on how they got where they are.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I still love the story of the Black & Decker Sales VP addressing the sales force: 

"People don't buy Black & Decker saws because they like Black & Decker". 

The audience gasped.... 

"People buy Black & Decker saws because they want shorter boards."


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

When I opend the box, I was surprised that my Hitachi ($$) framing nailer actually was made in Japan! 

I am thinking next of replacing a Bosch (Mexico) 1/2 Drill with a Milwaukee (Czech Republic). 

I used to buy some Husky wrenches from Home Depot. I don't buy them anymore because the tools are now made in China and I have given up on Big Orange for a few reasons, and according to dad's stock quarterly reports, I am not the only one. 

Kobalt (Lowes) mechanic's tools were the same as the Snap-On Blue Chip line (J H Williams), not sure if they still are or not. 

Napa and Craftsman were Western Forge (USA) back in the day, both US. Now? 

But then, I was using these tools to work on our Dodge D50 (Mitsubishi of Japan), Geo Metro (Japanese Suzuki Swift, built in Canada), AMC-Eagle Medallion (A Renault 21 in France). At least the two Toyotas were made in the States!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bruce,

Right on, right on! (Funny, too.)

I've felt for a long time that most big corporations feel that 'you need us, we don't need you.' Except possibly QT. That's one reason I buy the HF stuff. It's like, in the case of US corps', you're dating a girl who's unfaithful at every opportunity. With HF, you're dating by the hour, so to speak.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Final note on the saw-chain sharpener:

I have done up four chains now.

The flex in the case can be made to work for you when you hit a tooth that's really been abused: you just push left a tad and grind out what's not right.

Investment: ~$38 incl tax; a set screw; a couple of hours of learning.

Return: Saved $80 in sharpening fees. ($20/chain around here). So far.


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