# Scale 1:20.3 couplers



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

In anticipation of getting larger live steam engines, and the finishing of our outdoor layout, we are planning to convert our collection of LGB/Bachmann cars and the couple electric engines we have to knuckle couplers instead of the LGB type.

Since I know narrow gauge has been made to slightly different scales depending on the manufacturer, it doesn't have to be exact. But I want to get a good quality working scale coupler for all our car (it doesn't have to have a realistic opening mechanism, just realistic look and size).


We were looking at the narrow gauge couplers Accucraft sells at their estore, they look very nice. 


Any suggestions?


----------



## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

The Kadee couplers have a good reputation, they come in two sizes G scale and #1, the #1 is the smallest and can represent a 3/4 sized narrow gauge coupler. Accucraft couplers are a great option and also and feature an operating trip pin- but I heard they can get rusty if they are wet. The Accucraft also have a full sized 1:20.3 coupler and their 1:32 coupler looks like a 3/4 coupler in 1:20.3. Hope this helps. 

Alec.


----------



## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

The Accucraft coupler's aren't bad, but IMHO, Kadee's are better. Even if you *don't *use the magnetic uncoupling feature on Kadee's, they couple *easier than virtually any other coupler. *







I've got equipment with both; the Accucraft's certainly aren't bad, and the will mate with the Kadees. I use the larger "G" gauge size Kadee's since I've got grades on my railroad; they're a bit more tolerant of vertical curve transitions than the slightly smaller "1" gauge size (which many people consider a bit more "correct" from a scale standpoint). The "G" gauge Kadees are also closer in size to the Accucraft's. Most of the Accucraft couplers I have are on their cars, & work well enough that I haven't been in a rush to change them out. The working "cut" levers on the Accucraft cars (& the newer Bachmann "Spectrum" 1:20.3 cars) are perhaps the one advantage over the Kadees. However, I've also had occasional *unwanted uncouplings *







with the Accucraft's; this virtually *never *occurs with the Kadee's.







*Tom*


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you are going to model RGS and D&RGW, those railroads used standard gauge couplers on their narrow gauge rolling stock. This is unlike many other NG railroads that used 3/4 sized couplers. The Accucraft 1:20.3 and Kadee "G" are both suitable for Colorado NG models. The Bachmann Spectrum couplers are a little oversized (too tall).

chuck


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

The Accucraft 1:20 couplers are designed to be fastened directly to the end beam or sill of a car. Unless you modify the ends of the LGB cars this will be problematic at best. 
Kadee has a wide variety of choices for truck mounting on LGB or "Big Hauler" Bachmann cars. 

Most LGB and Bachmann truck mounted H&L replacements would use the Kadee 831 or new 909 with a large vertical offset. 
If you want to body mount couplers to these cars, build up a mounting pad on the bottom and use Kadee 830, 900, or short box versions if you need clearance for the wheels. 
The Bachman Spectrum [1:20] cars can use either a Kadee 830 in the box or the new E coupler [more realistic] 900 in the box / 916 coupler head attaches to Bachmann coupler shank. 

This page has pictures of the couplers and a conversion chart ==> http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/1gcouplers.htm 
There are other pages on the site with specific coupler conversions based on particular LGB car series #s 

Good luck.


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

Wow, thanks a ton guys, lots of good info!

We are not sure how we want to do the couplers yet, use the current truck mounted setup, or use a more realistic car mounted setup. 


And more of just an FYI, although many of our cars are not lettered for it, if we were to give an official name to our layout, it would either be the Oahu Railway or the Ohio River and Western.


I will have to look through everything to make up my mind, lots of options.


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 03 Mar 2011 12:17 PM 
If you are going to model RGS and D&RGW, those railroads used standard gauge couplers on their narrow gauge rolling stock. This is unlike many other NG railroads that used 3/4 sized couplers. The Accucraft 1:20.3 and Kadee "G" are both suitable for Colorado NG models. The Bachmann Spectrum couplers are a little oversized (too tall).

chuck 


I think your statement that the D&RGW used "standard gauge couplers" is a bit misleading. I'm not saying you're wrong, they weren't necessarily "narrow gauge couplers" but they were definitely different. In reality, they were smaller, simply because the narrow gauge cars came from an earlier era, in the 1880's, when they started out, the Type D coupler was in common use for both standard and narrow gauge cars on the Grande. By the 1900's, the most common coupler on the standard gauge cars were the Type E, and you can clearly see the difference between the two on these photos.

http://ghostdepot.com/rg/images/rol...0jrprn.jpg

And more clearly in this one:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1389...a0.jpg?v=0

In addition, most couplers require you to grasp the knuckle and pull it open after the pin has been pulled, the narrow gauge Sharon couplers are a different design, they "spring" open themselves when you pull the pin. I've compared both types at the Colorado Railroad Museum.

Also, most folio drawings of D&RGW cars show that they used a Sharon Type D coupler, with a 5x5" shank and a 9 1/4" head. Type E heads are 11" and are based on the MCB standard gauge couplers. The converted 40' steel flat cars used Type D couplers.

Remember, the Master Car Builder Standards desigated the early coupler designs, up to the Type E, when the AAR took over in WWII.

I've mentioned Sharon couplers, and most people are familiar with Janney couplers, and perhaps Tower, Climax, and Simplex couplers. These aren't coupler types, these are the brand names of the companies that made the couplers. All standard couplers from Type D through Type H are fully compatable with each other.

I don't know if any Type E couplers were in use on the Narrow Gauge, but it would have worked fine if it had been, so I have no reason to believe that they weren't. I suspect some of the tank cars may have had Type E couplers since they were marked with the 3"x7" shank sizes on the end.

Interestingly enough, today's coal trains, 125 cars, and 9 locomotives, weighing a million tons, use a coupler designed in 1873.


OK, onto the uncoupling problems with AMS couplers. I have found that if you actually use the cut levers, like I do, that sometimes they "hang." I always make sure there's slack in the chain to the lift pins. Usually, a "failed coupling" is the result of the lift pin not being all the way down. 

Thanks, Robert


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The Ohio River & Western used a 3/4-sized coupler, so either the Kadee #1 scale or Accucraft 1:32 coupler would be nearly spot on for that one. I believe the Oahu RR used a full-sized coupler, but without my books with me at the moment, I can't be certain. 

Later, 

K


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

Posted By East Broad Top on 03 Mar 2011 05:51 PM 
The Ohio River & Western used a 3/4-sized coupler, so either the Kadee #1 scale or Accucraft 1:32 coupler would be nearly spot on for that one. I believe the Oahu RR used a full-sized coupler, but without my books with me at the moment, I can't be certain. 

Later, 

K 
Hehe, thanks.

My dad has many books on both. Our 7.5" gauge, 2.5" scale steam train is built from OR&W plans. We have a box car, two flats, a 4 axle caboose, and two drop center riding cars built to narrow gauge with similar design to narrow gauge cars to give the same "feel". (steam engine is still under construction and is a model of the Rio Grande #20)


We are not modeling anything in specific, nor are we super anal about what was really used versus what we use. Since our cars are lettered for an assortment of railroads, it really doesn't matter.

Anyway, thanks again for all the info, going to look through all this material and we will probably get started on this once we near completion of our first elevated outdoor loop.


----------



## pfdx (Jan 2, 2008)

A couple of comments. 

"Full size" and "3/4 size" refers to the dimensions of the mating profile of the coupler. It has nothing to do with the actual head size or shank size or draft gear systems or the gauge. The MCB profile which dates back to the adoption of the Janny as the standard automatic coupler. the different sizes are scaled down versions to fit different applications. 

All three of the modern couplers have a knuckle thrower to open the knuckle with out having to do so by hand. Most of the older designs do to some work better than others. The throwers are susceptible to rust and debris and may not work. 

Very few narrow gauge cars used a type E, I think the 6500 flats may have used them, and some of the equipment that was converted to NG for pipe service. The type E is too big to fit in an old wood car, and by the time E's were becoming common most of the NG was gone or on the way out. The D&S has converted some of the Janney equiped cars to type E's as they wore out and the conversion is impressive. 

Another interesting point, many of the older designs: Janny and climax, use the knuckle pin to pull the car. E F and H in addition to Alliance and simplex only use the knuckle pin for support while it's open. When closed the pin can be removed with no change in performance. There was a brief spat of plastic knuckle pin use in the 1990's to save fuel. Work great untill a couple of bad joints broke the plastic. 

While the type E can be used as either a top or bottom lift coupler the bottom lift is most common since the weight of the cut lever hold the lock in place. 

One more snide remark. Kadee couplers are too perfect in their operation. Ask any railroader the real own never couple every time. 

Use what you think looks good.


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I checked, the 6500 flats were built with Type D's. Which are based on the earlier MCBS couplers. I think the only cars that would seem to have the Type E's would be the later tank cars. I would be curious to know if the K-37's used Type E couplers, although they were converted out of older locomotives. 

However... I bought a pair of Accucraft 1/32nd scale couplers, and they mate perfectly with the 1:20.3 couplers, are very slightly smaller, and are of a different design, most likely as 1/32nd "standard gauge" couplers, they're probably Type E's, and would probably "translate" into Type D couplers in 1:20.3. I'll have to some checking on that. The Warrior Run 6500 kits come with AMS 1:20.3 couplers, I may have to check the books on that, and see if that's accurate. If not, I may switch over to the 1:32nd scale couplers... 

Gosh, who the heck thought couplers were so darn complicated, LOL! 

Robert


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Robert, are you sure you got the Accucraft 1:32 couplers or their 1:29 couplers? The 1:32 couplers are decidedly smaller and do not mate with the 1:20 couplers. The 1:29 couplers are similar in size to the 1:20 couplers. 

Later, 

K


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm, good question. I don't know, I threw away the package. 

Robert


----------

