# LGB DSP&PRR caboose?



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Other than the hard to find Drovers caboose, did LGB ever do any other Denver South Park and Pacific RR cabooses? Like the bobber ect. I cant seem to find much and am guessing I am left to strip one and install new decals.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I don't know if it's helpful, but I didn't see anything in the database (http://www.gbdb.info) Of course, I'm not sure that's an exhaustive list. The ones there all seem to have been part of a set...


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Then I think I will pickup one of the redish DRGW bobbers with the brass trim and see if I can strip off the lettering and re decal it for DSP&PRR. I am torn between making the outdoor line Austrian, which is what I had planned on doing. Or go with what my wife wants and go with a wild west theme. Solving the issue of the mogul getting thru the covered bridge helped the wild west push. Anybody got one of those cabooses that needs a new home?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike;

The 1997 LGB catalog lists a #43650 C&S yellow bobber caboose. Since the DSP&P became part of the C&S, it could be a good starting point, providing you can find one.

The HLW bobber is 1:24 and comes in red paint, but undecorated. It is also based on the Delton Locomotive Works' C&S bobber. It should be current production, so if you don't mind the slightly smaller scale, it would make another good starting point.

Hope this helps,
David Meashey


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## morrjr (Jan 14, 2015)

I have a like new in box yellow LGB C&S bobber caboose that I would be willing to sell. I bought it new in box about two months ago, and it has only been run around an indoor layout about three times. Email or PM me for details.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Yellow cabooses just dont sit will with me. Thanks for the offer, rather find one of the red DRGW bobbers that have the nicer brass trim work as a starting point. Mike


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

there was no lgb dsp caboose

lgb did make thick weatherproof stickers that match the drg red, and had the south park line logo and letters to cover the printed drg markings. i have them, and they are crude in thier thickness and obscurring the wood slats. the lgb bobber doesnt have the fascia boards under the roof, an important detail for dsp ,imho. the bachman logging cabbose does, but the window spacing is off, but kinda similar.

fwiw, hartland and stan cedarleaf can supply bobber decals

i painted a bachman logging caboose dsp, white, using hartland decals,and its plausible.

an lgb bobber would be great, with flat roof, and a couple of other mods if youre fussy

fwiw, current informed belief indicates dsp ran red brown shortly, number only (no arced 'Way Car") , then the butter yellow Way Cars. These were formerly thought to be white, from b&w photos. for me, if white, they match the tiffany reefers, so its ok.

dsp never had cupola cabooses as far as i have read and researched. 

the prototype c&s bobbers from dsp way cars were all rebuilds adding the cupola. 

The lgb under carriage detail is about right for early DSP, and, in an average way, depicts a "median" length way car. All C and S bobbers were different lengths, (and so must have been the DSP way cars, I speculate), and none are actually identical in wheel base length to the LGB 'scale' center cupola bobber or even the offset C and S version!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

To stray from LGB for a moment. Accucraft made a brass DSP&PRR way car that was sold as 1:20.3 but I have checked it against the original plans and it is much closer to 1:22.5.

Andrew


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I hate to say it but I've never cared much for LGB's Bobber Cabooses. Usually I've bought the USAT Woodsided Cabooses instead and I like their DSP&PRR caboose as it looks good to me behind a 2018d or 2028d Mogul.










If you do go with the D&RG 4065 it might help to know that it was so popular that LGB made at least 4 generations of them with variations such as cupola supports being molded in or separate pieces, European style bumpers/buffers on the ends, molded vs brass curved side rails and I think there were a few other variances I've run into. Also some of the ones I've bought used had been butchered or glued in some strange ways.

It seems to me there were some variations in the windows and possibly in the roof as well but its been a long time since I paid attention to it. None of this may be important to you but if they might affect what you are looking for.

Good luck,

Jerry


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Jerry, is there any difference between the USAT caboose you have pictured and AristoCraft's Delton Classics long caboose? The ladder is the only obvious thing that looks different.
If it is much the same, it is 1:24 so a tad smaller than 1:22.5.

Andrew


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Garratt said:


> Jerry, is there any difference between the USAT caboose you have pictured and AristoCraft's Delton Classics long caboose? The ladder is the only obvious thing that looks different.
> If it is much the same, it is 1:24 so a tad smaller than 1:22.5.
> 
> Andrew


Hi Andrew,

They are very similar in appearance. Here are some photos for comparison (USA Woodsided on each side of a Delton/Aristo):

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c1.JPG
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c2.JPG
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c3.JPG
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c4.JPG
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c5.JPG
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c6.JPG
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c7.JPG
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c8.JPG
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Layouts/c9.JPG

Note: I've had some of these a lot longer than others so the wheels, markings etc. may be a bit different due to when some were manufactured.

I can't say why but the USAT Woodsided cabooses seem to me to be larger than the Delton/Aristo. I put a yardstick in the background but I have not measured them.

The main difference to my mind is that the Delton coupler mounting can be problematic for anything other than Aristo/Delton rolling stock. I sold off my Delton and Aristo Classics years ago because they (especially the Delton and Aristo C-16's) could not handle my LGB R1 turnouts. I forget who bought them but they loved them.

I agree they are more likely 1:24 rather than 1:22.5 but I am more leaning to what I like the looks of rather than what may be correct or prototypical. Its just a personal approach to the hobby.

I put this together a few years ago (all are G Scale except for the O Gauge MTH). 










You could say that I am hooked on cabooses (no idea why).

Jerry


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks Jerry

Yes, the ASAT caboose looks a slightly larger scale than the AristoCraft Delton Classic. 
I was wondering if they were virtually the same thing. Apparently not.
The AristoCraft Delton Classic caboose looks a little small next to 1:22.5 cars.

Andrew


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Andrew,

Curiosity got the best of me:

Length of roof: same
Delton: 14 1/8" long
USAT: 14 1/8" long

*Width:
Delton 3 5/8":
USAT: 4"*

Height:
Delton:
USAT: 1/8" taller

The width difference may not sound like much but that extra width makes a HUGE difference when you FEEL IT between your thumb and fingers as you pick it up.

*By comparison, the LGB 4065 Cabooses are 4 1/8" wide.*

Now I know why I've always thought of the Delton cabooses as too small for my LGB Moguls and the USAT Woodsided Cabooses to be just right for the LGB Moguls.

After all, its all in the head and imagination isn't it?

Jerry


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Jerry, I could see the slight differences from your photos. I can just see the height difference but mostly the width. The side boards seem to drop lower on the USAT one too. The Aristo sits high on it's bolsters, whatever. I don't like that look, especially on narrow gauge.
I have mainly 1:20 but also have a small range of Big Hauler stuff (I don't need to be so gentle with it). I noticed the Aristo caboose doesn't look quite right with it but I like the caboose style with lights. Now I may get rid of it and get a USAT one instead. Thanks for clearing that up. Going by the USAT image all by itself, it looks almost the same thing. 

Andrew


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Andrew,

Sometimes our layouts evolve as the result of the environment including track, turnouts, heat, dampness etc.

I ended up with mostly LGB because my main layout is in the unheated, uncooled cramp space under our house. The brick/cinder block walls etc. dictated a lot of R1 & R2 curves. That caused me to move away from the Deltons and Big Haulers (nothing wrong with them - they were just not designed for R1 curves and LGB turnouts). 

Since the indoor layouts are still 100% LGB brass track and turnouts I wanted the extra contact of sliders (shoes) and I soon discovered that LGB stuff was far more resistant to dampness and rust than the other brands (and priced accordingly). 

I also quickly noticed that things like metal springs look nice and are realistic but plastic molds don't rust - another difference I noticed between the Delton and USAT cabooses. The Delton/Aristo cabooses have metal springs in the trucks and the USAT are molded plastic. In fairness, although I've never oiled those springs there is no rust visible on them.

The difference to me was that my outside trains that got damp and possibly wet did get rust on the springs and metal wheels.

A good friend simply leaves his trains (and locos) outside 24/7/365 and he does not worry about the rust. He runs his trains more than anyone else I know of and even bought some Lionel/MTH O Gauge track and trains from me and he has run that outside as well (in sort of a tent) including his locos, transformers etc.!!!

I would never have believed it and I would certainly never do it or recommend it but he is the proof that many rules can be ignored and broken if you are willing to accept the risk.

Cheers, 

Jerry


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