# RLD Hobbies Layout Build



## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

Here are some photos of our store layout we are working on.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

WOW Robbie, that sure looks great. Some really nice long runs. What are the straight lengths?


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Aluminum track? How much expansion do you expect?


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Lookin' good, Robby.... 

Hope you don't get any of those twisty things coming down from the clouds blowin' through there...


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Mike, that was kind of the point behind my question. I sure hope Robby has allowed for some serious expansion in those long straights.


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

The long straights are 60 ft long. I have 1" split jaw Aluminum expansion joints in the middle of each run. the curves are loosely attached for expansion as well. we'll see what it does as it is headed into the 90s this week


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Your mileage may vary of course Robby..
dependent on your yearly extremes...
But. ..I used rough calcs..and concluded you'll be using every bit of that 1" expansion track section.

Two may be a better solution in the end....for a 60' run...

Watch n wait..!!! Good luck ..n Have FUN!!

Dirk


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Robby,
Was there a reason to build an Indianapolis 500 track, rather than a more relaxed shape?
It's always hard when presented with such a large open area to decide what to do.
Should be a real race track depending on the corner radii.
What is the radius?
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

Looks great, looking forward to seeing more.


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## Henson (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for posting the pic's it's looking good. Looking forward to more.


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

The radius is 10ft (20ft circle) I plan on making it bigger in the future. I open to any ideas. I like running wide open. this is being built for anyone who wants to stop by and use it.


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

Rob,

Do you still have the indoor layout? If so, can you connect the outdoor and indoor layouts? Will you have any provision for switching other than the sidings shown in the photographs? Would it be possible for you to add the Timesaver and Inglenook switching problems to the outdoor layout? Do you plan on having scenery on the layout?

What is complete so far is very nice! Good luck with this layout. I will have to visit sometime to see it in operation.

Respectfully,

NYC Buff


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

I still have the indoor layout. some day I'll connect them. I will be adding more to it in the future.


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## Daniel Peck (Mar 31, 2009)

no bridge picture


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Robby,
Not to tell you how to run your railroad, but I would suggest you read a post I made for another modeler laying track some time ago. It explains the required calculations you will need to properly allow for thermal expansion.
http://forums.mylargescale.com/16-track-trestles-bridges-roadbed/25407-laying-track.html
This thread only pertains to the rail itself. If my assumption that you are using aluminum track is correct (and worst case scenario), and assuming a 100 degree total temperature variation from winter to summer, that 60ft of track is going to do a total expansion of 7/8 of an inch. Using only one 1" expansion joint might be risky, I agree that two would be better. My recommendation to keep track from buckling would be to anchor the two tie strips adjacent to the curves and leave them screwed to the rials. Remove the screws from all other tie strips anchoring them to the rials. Align and anchor the tie strips to the sub road bed. This will allow the rial to slide in the tie strips. If you then center the expansion joint half of the total expansion will come from either side of the expansion joint.
If you are laying track at or near your high temperature, install the expansion joint near closed (minimum overall length) all your expansion will be negative (contraction of the rail).
Personally I would anchor the ends of your curves and allow the middle to 'float' with expansion and contraction. Again, if you are laying track at maximum temperature, bow the center of the curve slightly outward so when the rail contracts there will be enough give to not pull the joints apart.
FWIW.
Bob C.


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

Thanks for the info. none of the ties are connected to the rails. it is all 8ft rail with flex ties. the curves are free floating. the only thing that is solid is the #6 SS switches I used. its going to be in the mid 90s this weekend. I should be able to see what will happen. when I put the expansion joints down it was in the 60s


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## trainsbt (Jan 11, 2008)

Looking good!


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

What a wonderful thing to do for the live steam community!!!!!!!

Dave


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

Installed an 8ft Aluminum Bridge









Another angle


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Robbie

It is probably too late to tell you that your 8 foot unsupported span made with 2x6 is probably going to develop a sag after the second winter, based on the weight of your decking and the probable snow load of your area. Speaking from personal experience.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

On a more positive note... the track looks really nice and tthe workmanship is first rate.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good so far Robbie. Only question I have is you said the turnouts are fixed in place. I hope not secured to the layout as this will now cause track to want to buckle up at the turn out. This happens in the real world unless you figure out a way to prevent rail movement.

The name of the game is to prevent the movement not to let it happen as you have done so this worries me. I know your RR is raised but it just takes a little different approach to keeping the rails from track buckling. Seeing what you have done so far, the movement will happen and so the rail expansion joints are now a must. It will take at least 8 spaced equally around the layout and using the 1inch approach should work. 

I spent 43 years in the rail industry with my expertise being in track. I have done my RR like the 1 to 1 RRs and have made sure the rail stays where it is put. As you know we also hit 100 degree days. In 10 years have not had any issues. 

Hope to see the RR in person soon and running some trains with you. Later RJD


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr Rivet said:


> Robbie
> 
> It is probably too late to tell you that your 8 foot unsupported span made with 2x6 is probably going to develop a sag after the second winter, based on the weight of your decking and the probable snow load of your area. Speaking from personal experience.


If you do have to make repairs DR. Rivet suggests to your layout you might consider increasing the curve radius to 15-20'. 10' radius is the minimum radius spec'd for most if not all large live steam locomotives (BB, CF, H8, Challenger, GS-4/5, T1, etc.) Accucraft's are all 10' radius. I think Aster spec's 12'. I believe the same is true for electric versions of the same locomotives. 

Even then many are slightly to very uncomfortable even at 10'. My experience, the evidence of the trouble is you'll notice the loco will slow through the curve as its drivers are binding against the rails. Over time both the loco and rail may suffer additional wear. AL track being relatively soft all the more so with stainless steel loco tires. The effects are proportional to speed. If the trains run at moderate speeds then the effects will be less noticeable. Fast (150-200 scale MPH (as some like to run)) and they might, worst case, derail.

I'm afraid the same is true for #6 turnouts. All loco's will of course be ok through the straight but the curve for larger locos will have to be taken slowly and even then some loco's wheels can foul or jump the track. I've been told the Accucraft GS4 is particularly sensitive needing #8 or better turnouts at a minimum.

I sure others have much more experience than I do and could offer their knowledge, experiences and opinions on this.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I find it curious you "plan to make your radius bigger?" That seems like a huge unnecessary extra work, especially since you appear to have sufficient space to have gone larger from the outset.

Though, I suppose you could build an inner track at a larger radius, which would also give the sensation of diverging tracks, with the additional switching options that allows.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr Rivet said:


> Robbie
> 
> It is probably too late to tell you that your 8 foot unsupported span made with 2x6 is probably going to develop a sag after the second winter, based on the weight of your decking and the probable snow load of your area. Speaking from personal experience.


 
Yep had the same problem here with a steaming bay we built. 2x6x8 spanning 8' with trex decking. After 3 years it is a hump yard, literally. Id add a brace at the centers that just rests on a block while its all straight still. I will have to help him yank it all and rebuild to 4' OC. My own RR the yard is 4' centers after discussing options with Dr Rivet but I am supporting 5' wide on 2 posts 30' apart. Those have 2x6 lagged but I should of sat them on top of the posts as it would of supported them better. 

Its a pretty dam big track Robbie, how about some 20' radius curves in there. When is the open house?


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

we only get on average about 23 inches of snow a year. I am 270 miles south of Chicago. some winters it doesn't snow.


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

The curves are 10ft radius(20ft Circle) we plan on having an open house. but I don't think I'll be ready this year. I want to put in a shed for car storage. and in the future we will expand and make it larger.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Robby,

Looks really great, lots of room for expansion.
Is shade for operators a concern?
Having a tabletop outdoor railroad in operation since 2005 I very firmly 
concur with the folks telling you to go to at least 4 foot centers on your vertical
supports or you will eventually have a roller coaster rather than a railroad.

My centers are 8 foot with 4x4 posts concreted in the ground with alternating 
centers of 8 foot using 2x4 verticals resting on a concrete brick pad. This Creates 
4 foot centers and even so I still get a small amount of sag/twist/movement and 
we get basically no snow each yaer.

Maybe I can come and see it one of these days.
Rick


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Robby,

Thanks so much for posting your nice and cleanly done new layout. You even painted the structure!

-Ted


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Robbie, check your business mail--I sent you something.

Larry


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Robbie,
Two alternatives to additional posts:
1) Add a 2 x 4 vertical in the center of the 2x6, making a 'T' cross section. Use construction adhesive and ample 3" screws and it will hold fine, even in your local climate.
2) Some short blocks, cable and turnbuckles, ala truss rod style.
Both of these solutions will allow you to mitigate sag without doing major reconstruction. Both of these may also be incorporated 'on the fly' so to speak.
Great looking loop with lots of room to let a loco stretch.
Bob C.


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*I was the first to run on Robby's layout, in a straight line only cause the curves weren't done yet.*


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

"...* in a straight line only..."

Presume it was a good run !

Ahhh some railways start (and still are) as a point to point 

A lot of excursion railways are that way !! 

doug c 
*


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