# I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

For use switch outs for sidings and any spur line. 

They are LGB, great shape... (Compared to the Aristo's I have with the gully's in the frogs) 


Sound fine for a mini 2-4-0 loco but I would like to do this with the MTH 4-6-4 Hudson with a minimum R2 curve need. (62" dia)


Now some notes: 


The Hudson would be entering the siding / spur at "yard" speeds and I would arrange for a 2' straight after the switch and then use min R2 curves to redirect the line back to parallel with the main track. 


I know, I'm cheap however I know some of you have tried this stunt. Your feedback would be great. 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't think there is anything wrong with the title of this thread.

You can be cheap and recycle.

Take each switch, and adjust a pair of vice grips to firmly grasp the rail head at one end of the switch.


Now pull, it takes a bit of strength.

Repeat on each rail.


Put the plastic parts in the "plastic" recycle bin, and then you might be able to get a few bucks for the brass from the local recycle place.

Great idea, they are really not heavy enough for boat anchors.












Regards, Greg


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

The 30 degree angle of the switch may be to much for your hudson even with the straight section.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

You guys kill me with your humor.... 

OK, it was JUST an idea to save some bucks... OK.... 

Just an idea... 


ohhh...










The R1 switches will be saved for the inside xmas tree bit... so plastic recycle is OUT... and INSIDE xmas driven switches are IN... for short beasties... if you get my drift here...









Thread offically terminated... 


gg


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

GG I could be wronrg try it, but on the ground in case you derail


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Bills on 02/06/2009 10:24 PM
GG I could be wronrg try it, but on the ground in case you derail







Correct... despite what the guru's say... I, the NEWBIE will experiment on my livingroom floor and come back to these astute, noble and forward thinking experts and PROVE them wrong !!!

How is that for Friday night umph!!!!!


gg












PS:... hope I don't eat crow on this one...


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

Don't call me an expert, I'm just giving free advice on things I know nothing about


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

If you put enough Tobasco Sauce on the crow you won't notice the fowl taste.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 02/06/2009 10:41 PM
If you put enough Tobasco Sauce on the crow you won't notice the fowl taste.







Semper, Semper, Semper.....


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

Am I the *only* mathematician here? 

If you could give me: the wheel size, axle spacings, lateral side play of axles, and bogie swing, of your 4-6-4, (preferably in metric). I will see if you could simply get away with widening the gauge on the points with a grinder/file. You would be surprised at how much you can get through a wide gauge corner that you thought you couldn't... 

GG -could I also suggest you scour eBay or Amazon for a copy of "Model Railways" by Henry Greenly. (I have a signed copy of the 1924 edition). 

I have found that in order to ask any question -you have to know at least 50% of the answer. That one reading session with that book will give you at least 75% of the answer to anything railway related... As to being a "cheapskate" well I run my railways on the strict budget of £10 per week. 

regards 

ralph


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

I can run my SD-45 on my indoor layout which is all R1 (4 foot diameter) curves. It is the over hang of the coupler that is the issue where this loco needs 8 foot diameter to haul cars. 
on 4 foot, the coupler is outside the outer rail and will derail the first car/truck. 
So, I built a tow bar and can now run the SD-45 indoors. 

Picture is SD-45 on LGB R1 track. 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/danpierce/SD45/SD45_2foot_radius.jpe


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

The real issue is, what d o you have to loose if it doesn't work? I've put a lot of big engines through those little switches over the years and all you needed to do was go slow.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

On my layout the trains all terminate in a storage barn. I have 4 track in a just over two foot wide space, thanks to using R1 switches:










There's 4 R1s in use there, and one R3, and it works fine. I can get a Bachmann Annie onto any track; freight cars go onto any siding, and I can get an Aristo RS-3 onto any track. I can't get a Pacific or a Mikado over the R1 curves, but everything else I run is fine. I think you'd be crazy not to use them in the yard, if you have them. I have a bunch more that we were given as a gift, and when I build a yard I'll probably use them the same way.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

GG if I follow you correctly, you are asking if you can re make the R1s into a larger radii ? If that is the case, then I think it would be easier to build a switch from scratch. Of course if it can be done, somebody on here will know how. I have 1/2 dozen in a box that could do with fixing.
Rod


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

Low note nice yard. Which switch is the r3 (I'm guessing the first one)? Are alll of the track peices standard LGB lenghts? I think I have the parts to build one and I need (want) a yard. I doubt a bachmann spectrum wold be able to handle the R1's


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I love it!! 


GG - If you went with all LGB, you would be able to use all the R1 curves you have!! All of their locomotives run around R1, even the huge 2-8-2 Mikado and their large J3A Hudson!! As for your real question, saving money and being 'cheap', why not do this right and build your own switches instead of trying to shove 10lbs of crap in to a 5lb bag? After all, you are spending a lot of $$ on the trains themselves, don't make the mistake of skimping on the supporting cast, the track itself. It is February, and just FYI, aristo has their 'buy 4 get one free' thing. That includes switches. That's how I saved some cash when I built my RR. And, like you, I used some R1 curves. All they did was cause me grief and headaches, and they were just yard switches. If you are thinking of body mounted couplers, R1 switches are a no-no. And shoving long cuts of truck mounted couplers through R1's is also a headache inducer. 

Sure, the aristo switches are not the best, but they aren't that bad and I think the wide radius switches are reasonable. If I had more money, I would have gone for the #6 switches, but that's life. Think of your time, is it free? How much time and effort are you willing to spend on modifying switches when you could just buy new ones, tweak if necessary, and be done with it? I say 'if necessary' beacause I haven't had any problems with mine. Or you could do like my good buddy Pete and build your own switches. I think he even casts his own frogs. Then again, he is also all battery powered, so he doesn't care about insulation, etc.. 
http://www.geocities.com/eggink806/Turnouts.html


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Bills on 02/07/2009 7:10 AM
Low note nice yard. Which switch is the r3 (I'm guessing the first one)? Are alll of the track peices standard LGB lenghts? I think I have the parts to build one and I need (want) a yard. I doubt a bachmann spectrum wold be able to handle the R1's




Bills, the R3 is the first one. Since I did that graphic I added a long staging track that's outside the barn. They are mostly standard LGB lengths but I used a bender on the track that goes to the siding at the bottom of the graphic, the last one from the top



I have to admit, I expected these R1 switches to be a headache, but they operate really well. I regularly back a train of 12 cars onto the second siding from the bottom--through a ferocious S curve that's all R1. It's true, the couplers are truck mounted. Sometimes the pilot on the Annie wants to derail coming out--but not backing in. But they are remarkably trouble free overall for me. Partly I suppose its because thy are on a dead level piece of plywood?. They don't look prototypical, but they work well.

I doubt a Bachman spectrum could negotiate them, but the freight cars definitely could. You could use the money saved on switches to buy a little porter to bring the cars out....

aristo says the RS3 needs a minimum 5 ft radius curve, but I've been backing it into the third siding from the top, with a string of ten cars, smooth as glass, no troubles whatsoever. It does tend to want to pull the first car off the rails coming out though


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

Gents, 

I thank you for your input and I am encouraged. Message is try it... nothing is going to blow up here. 

Greg, your recycle idea has been put on ice. 
' 
Ralph, At 10 quid a week, that should translate to approx $100 CAD per month. I, as CEO and President of the GR&G RR will need to meet with my CFO and CMO to evaluate if this type of construction can be done on this type of budget. I suspect that the Railway will need to issue 30 year bonds to cover construction costs, so ..... this weekly budget will simply cover operations and maintenance. I will report back after the next board meeting. 

Mark, I'm heading straight for MTH and starting off with a Hudson.... any MTH Hudson guys out there? 

Lownote your schematic reminds me of my layout in the livingroom a few years ago... we had NO PLACE to walk!!! 

gg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By lownote on 02/07/2009 6:15 AM
On my layout the trains all terminate in a storage barn. I have 4 track in a just over two foot wide space, thanks to using R1 switches:










There's 4 R1s in use there, and one R3, and it works fine. I can get a Bachmann Annie onto any track; freight cars go onto any siding, and I can get an Aristo RS-3 onto any track. I can't get a Pacific or a Mikado over the R1 curves, but everything else I run is fine. I think you'd be crazy not to use them in the yard, if you have them. I have a bunch more that we were given as a gift, and when I build a yard I'll probably use them the same way. 












Brain wave here










Nice layout and great for shunting... Keep the mainline Hudson OFF the switching yard... I need a shunting engine with a flywheel!!!!!!
Now, would that be prototypical or what.. R1 switches are IN... Here I assume that my 1:32 rolling stock can handle the switch.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a couple MTH cars, they navigate the R1s just fine

Truck mounted couplers though 




Take the money saved on switches, buy a USAT dockside switcher or an Aristo 0-4-0...... Actually the aristo 0-4-0 does not have a flywheel, I don't think, although it's supposed to be upgraded to their prime mover drive, which does have a flywheel. Options for a 1:29 steam switcher are pretty limited. USAT is supposed to be producing a PRR B6, an 0-6-0 switcher. Don't know when. There's an AML 0-6-0, all metal, I don't think it's been released yet either and I'm not sure either one is officially R1 capable. There's lots of choices in diesel switchers though.

I ended up revising that yard slightly by adding a staging track. Make sit very easy to have a switcher pull an assembled train out for the mainline locos to take


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yes and build a shed on some of it for storage. 

I need to research the switcher... need steam and "class" in this puppy. 

gg


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

I run indoor and I use all r1 switches on my layout...

I use the Aristocraft ones...

I have no problems with any of my locos going through them (some I run slowly)

Here is a list of what I have...

LGB 2-4-0
Aristo RS3, FA, critter, Pacific (older style)

USA GP7 , GP38, NW2

I do have to take it slow with some of the locos...

And I did have to file down some of the plastic "guides" as they stick above the rails and the steps on the USA locos would hit them..

ALSO... I had to remove the jeweled indicators and they would get hit by the locos too...

AND... you have to be aware of what side the switch machine is on as they sit high and some locos can hit them also...


Philip


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

Well either my memory or maths are wrong as I think UK£520 Sterling per annum equates to about Can$950 Loonies per annum? I think I do this rather cheaply -but then I did have a very restrictive childhood during the period of "Sanctions". 

regards 

ralph


EDIT: 


The £10 per week also covers the cost of building new track, locos and rolling stock -as well as on going maintenance or improvements... I believe I get more enjoyment and satisfaction out of my planning and spending on a tight budget. 

My other hobby is seasonal and VERY expensive...


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Ralph, budgets work, just the capital outlay for startup. 

I bet you are a glider or pilot. 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

I'm not aware that the Aristo 0-4-0 is going to be updated. I was pretty sure Lewis said no a number of months back. Tom Ruby, surely you know? 

The USAT docksider would be a reasonable choice, and I think it has a blind center driver, but not sure. 

The USAT 0-6-0 switcher has not been mentioned by USAT in any releases for some time. It was to come out quite a while ago, then no news, then the docksider appeared... do not hold your breath, and if it ever surfaces it will be EXPENSIVE, you could have replaced all the switches in cost easily. 

The AML switcher is about $1200, and I have been waiting almost a year for mine. Again, not the alternative if the point is saving money. 

I'd consider the docksider, or kit bash a bug mauler to an 0-6-0 switcher, 2 people have done that on this forum. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. you might consider a runaround on one of the tracks, or an engine escape... 

take a look at this page: 
*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/planning-aamp-design-mainmenu-55/designing-a-yard-mainmenu-56*


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

I think I need to start a thread on designing a new yard. first an inventory of track and switchs at the MOW depot(closet)


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

GG did you test your R1?


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Bills on 02/07/2009 5:30 PM
GG did you test your R1?





I will once I get the "beast"... 
Patiently waiting... 


gg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Regarding the Aristo 0-4-0, I asked about it on the Aristo Forum and Lewis replied on 06-13-2008.



"


Lewis Polk said:


> D
> 
> The plans are done to upgrade the 0-4-0 to the Prime Movers in 2009. The price is higher for our starter sets, but it's too good of a product this way to worry about the starter set prices. I will argue that the Prime Mover blocks are as near perfect as we can get and have not had a single problem in several years of sale. Yes, industrially it's possibly not a perfectly designed product, but we built it to be affordable for a consumer product that did not need to be mil spec. I don't think it will provide that much more pulling power as a short 2 axle model does not have the capability of pulling like a double truck loco.
> 
> ...


"


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

"Am I the only mathematician here?" 

Apparently, yes.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

QUOTE.. I will argue that the Prime Mover blocks are as near perfect as we can get and have not had a single problem in several years of sale...
TIME TO GET THE BOOTIES ON!!!!!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

"CHEAP" is such a crude and uncouth word









One should use the term "COST EFFECTIVE"









Yes I want to be Cost Effective when I build my rail road.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

Well, since Lewis posted that almost a year ago, before things really tanked, you can take the delivery of the new 0-4-0 with as many grains of salt as you desire... ask him on the AC forum when it will be out... 

Regards, Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

From what I remember (from back in 2001) my start up capital was £70 and I spent that buying track at £5.25p per length, The remainder was spent on 2 sheets of A3 ABS sheetings and 5mm sq pine strip. I then began construction of my first loco using the kitchen knives the contents of the recycle bin and a ruler. The rest as they say is history... 

My other hobby is "Gertrude" -she is a 1956 Morris Minor Traveller and she has been mine since I was 17. She previously belonged to my favourite Maiden Aunt who gifted her to me as something a young man could go "to and from his college" in. Gertrude came complete with the engine my Aunt had had fitted during the mid 60's - an 1150cc Formula Junior Engine with Shorrock C75B supercharger which blows through dual 40dhla Dellortos into a Welland 8 port cross flow head... 

Parts are expensive, but I have improved and worked on Gertrude and I campaign her in Group "B" modified division in the Classic Saloon Car Racing. This has been fitted with gas shock absorbers, dual circuit brakes, elecktron wheels and slicks. She is also my daily get to work transport and looks totally normal in her 50's powder blue and white. The only give away is the small wreath of blue Speedwell flowers on the back LHS door and my blood group. I love it. The rules are simple -you set your own time for 5 laps after 2 test laps. The one NEAREST the stated time is the winner, you must do a minimum 30mph and a maximum 60mph break the limits and you are disqualified... 

There is also the Le Mans start -the drivers stand across the track from their motors and the cars are ordered in time -the slowest being at the front... During the season of 10 races I will spend about £2,000 mostly on inspection fees and tyres 

regards 

ralph


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, all I wrote is that an upgraded 0-4-0 is "supposed to be" coming out. I gave you my source, which was Lewis writing seven months ago, which is not "nearly a year." Will it actually come out ? Who knows? not me. All I know is that according to Lewis, it is supposed to come out this year, which is what I posted earlier. I have no further info than that and didn't suggest otherwise. I have no idea how or if the economic downturn will affect this plan, nor, I assume, do you. I was only offering some info to GG, who was looking for a small switcher with a flywheel. If they do, as lewis suggested, adapt their prime mover to fit the 0-4-0 then bingo, there's your 1:29 steam switcher

I've been thinking about buying one of those 0-4-0s for quite a while now, but I've been waiting for the upgrade. It might never happen, it's true. I just posted the question again. I'll post a reply if I get one


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By ralphbrades on 02/08/2009 1:54 AM
From what I remember (from back in 2001) my start up capital was £70 and I spent that buying track at £5.25p per length, The remainder was spent on 2 sheets of A3 ABS sheetings and 5mm sq pine strip. I then began construction of my first loco using the kitchen knives the contents of the recycle bin and a ruler. The rest as they say is history... 

My other hobby is "Gertrude" -she is a 1956 Morris Minor Traveller and she has been mine since I was 17. She previously belonged to my favourite Maiden Aunt who gifted her to me as something a young man could go "to and from his college" in. Gertrude came complete with the engine my Aunt had had fitted during the mid 60's - an 1150cc Formula Junior Engine with Shorrock C75B supercharger which blows through dual 40dhla Dellortos into a Welland 8 port cross flow head... 

Parts are expensive, but I have improved and worked on Gertrude and I campaign her in Group "B" modified division in the Classic Saloon Car Racing. This has been fitted with gas shock absorbers, dual circuit brakes, elecktron wheels and slicks. She is also my daily get to work transport and looks totally normal in her 50's powder blue and white. The only give away is the small wreath of blue Speedwell flowers on the back LHS door and my blood group. I love it. The rules are simple -you set your own time for 5 laps after 2 test laps. The one NEAREST the stated time is the winner, you must do a minimum 30mph and a maximum 60mph break the limits and you are disqualified... 

There is also the Le Mans start -the drivers stand across the track from their motors and the cars are ordered in time -the slowest being at the front... During the season of 10 races I will spend about £2,000 mostly on inspection fees and tyres 

regards 

ralph 






Interesting Ralph, you are indeed involved. Doing what you are doing costs money. I can relate with a different venue, Sailing... I wouldn't post a pic of your car on this forum as A) It is not a train and B) Everyone on the forum will be looking to redesign your 1956 Morris Minor Traveller and refit it with rail wheels. 

That would destroy the essence of this fine vehicle. Nor would it be considered a "Loco" but simply an "engine" with a posh Engineer's cab. 


Thanks for the info. 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: I want to be cheap and recycle my R1 switches (48" dia)*

Sorry Mike, what we are missing is the timeframe. I may be misinterpreting the time frame to do this. I've been waiting for several locos for over a year myself. Right now, I am looking at promised delivery dates with a more skeptical viewpoint, no matter who the manufacturer is. (I believe I mentioned AML, USAT and Aristo). 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Bills on 02/07/2009 5:29 PM
I think I need to start a thread on designing a new yard. first an inventory of track and switchs at the MOW depot(closet)






This is what started this thread, I did an inventory after hauling EVERYTHING out of the closet.... I have a couple of Aristo cars that need metal wheels etc and I never really realized that I had so much brass 332 track. Must make use of it. 

gg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

GG,

I would recommend that you stick with the locos from MTH. Forget the rest. You are going to be getting their DCS system to control your Hudson (and ring bells, blow the whistle, etc.. - You need the MTH DCS system or to use an AC transformer). Unfortunatley, they haven't brought out a small steam switcher. But who knows. Maybe in time, they will.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

GG 
You can buy anything you want, it a simple task to have it converted by Ray or yourself. you dont need to be limited,and also all MTH locos run on DC as well so they will run with anything..


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Gents, so correct. 

I'm counting on Aristo to bring out a switcher with a flywheel

gg


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