# What's your reason for not buying?



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

With so many brick and morter and internet hobby shops closing down, obviously most of us have either stopped buying or cut back on what we would like to spend on our hobbies.


For me it's simply the price of fuel.

I travel 74 miles to work and back everyday. 

Even at 26 mpg, I'm spending $12.00 a day for fuel along.

Yes, that is for premium which my car requires, but still that's around $250.00 a month.

But, the cost of my fuel is only the tip of the iceberg.

The price of almost everything I purchase is going up do to the cost of fuel.

So why aren't you spending more money on trains?


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

Retired.
On a fixed income.
And they want way too much for trains nowadays.
After 26 years of buying, building, trading, etc, I have enough to last me the rest
of my days.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Poor grad student. Don't have the money to buy anything right now. Someday when I get a real job again I most likely will start buying stuff again, but it will be limited. 

Craig


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I lost interest and have too much anyway.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

If it would not be for live steam i would have quit long time ago. The challenge to fire up a live steam loco without burning my hands is just to great!! 

Manfred


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

I am spending about 90% less than I normally do. Impart because my seasonal business has all but dried up. Landscape construction has dropped way off! Maybe not @ 1600 penn ave. but here in Massachusetts it's almost flat! What work is to be found has many sharpening the pencil. Fuel $$$ is the knock out punch to construction........ My railroad is about where I want it. I have changed to 1:29 so I have been selling some equipment and buying some other , but I can wait till it gets better. I hope some companies can weather the storm. After all when it gets better(and it will) I need somebody to be there when I am ready to buy.


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

My main reason for not buying much, Right now the manufacturers are not making hardly anything in GN or NP. 
When they make it, I buy it. But for now it's mostly eastern roadnames and SF, UPyours and so on. I too like Marty have amassed quite a bit over the last 16 years, so I don't want other roadname cars other than what I like. 

74 miles Randy, D*mn I hope it pays well. I would not drive that for a cheaper paying job. It's not the gas that would bother me, it's the wear and tear on my vehicle that I'd be concerned about.

Rocky


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not buying for various reasons, reduced income, downsizing the layout which significantly reduced my rosters needs. Also a shifting away from the older smaller R1 based compact layouts to an industry catering to larger more spacious layouts and larger engines and larger sized roster and correspondingly being significantly more expensive. I still have plans to purchase the Piko 0-6-0saddletanker switcher later this year but thats pretty much all thats being offered that has any interest to me, maybe that's the biggest reason, nothing to tempt me.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I like to build my stuff as much as possible, so mostly buy scratch supplies. SOmetimes an old loco to bash into something else. Waiting on a SHark body, I have the frame/trucks from an Aristo FA unit that I will use on that. I'm not a collector, like to use my stuff, so not much use in getting anymore. I have about 20 cars, which is plenty, a dozen or so engines, over half I made, so some things don't get run much as it is, no use getting anymore to sit.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I pretty much agree with what has been said. I still lean toward smaller locos and rolling stock. But, as has been pointed out, manufacturers seem to be making larger models. I'm also retired, fixed income, etc. There are some British manufacturers making stuff I would like but not at my price range. Then there is the postage. Oh well. Like Jerry says, more scratch and kit bashing is always cost effective.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nothing new. Yes money is tighter, but no new locos, and have enough cars to last a long time. 

Would like some more locos. 

Going to spend money on bridges now. 

Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Laid off 2 weeks ago..I wont be spending a dime on trains for 2 years at least.. 
Scot


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Making do with what I have, personal circumstances preclude me from any purchases unless I sell something to buy something else, and that's doubtful. G-scale pricing passed me up over a year ago, unless a great bargain to be had somewhere, or a trade. Regal


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Guys: 

1) - there are no more blow out super deals at TrainWorld presently 
- when Bachmann Trains blew out their largescale inventory approx one year ago, TrainWorld did NOT pass on the savings, their web prices remained unchanged 
- the Forney reg 660.00 approx. was available elsewhere at around 330.00 approx. 

2) - the new models of Bachmann locos are now too expensive 

3) - the Aristo Craft heavyweights are now around 220.00 each, ten years back the heavyweights were around 95.00 

4) - Bachmann's move to 1:20.3 scale makes all of their locos, except the 4-4-0 and the Annie , too large for 1:22.5 or 1:24 locos and rolling stock 
- I am not throwing out my 1:24 stuff ( selling at a huge loss is the same as throwing the stuff out! ) 

5) - Bachmann's locomotive pricing became too high at the time of the release of their Forney loco 
- this is the time when generally all large scale product took a huge price increase 

6) - the cost of plastic body locos is now at the pricing of the former blowouts of Accucraft brass locos! 
- I am simply not interested in paying that type of money for a plastic loco for which I would later be offered absoulute PEANUTS by either a local large scale train dealer or the local large scale modellors 
- I have lost money on the Bachmann Annies (unran) to help out a large scale modellor but those were not expensive locomotives! , not a big deal ! 

7) - there is now an extremely low resale value, even as mint models, to our large scale collections 
- I don't feel like spending large dollar amounts for something that is magically worth almost nothing once it is paid for and arrives at my door 

8) - the cost of food has skyrocketed due to the high diesel fuel shipping costs 
- the American and Canadian postage shipping fees are now far higher making the purchase of a large scale locomotive or car expensive to mail 
- salaries are basically frozen despite all of the living essentials sharply increasing in cost 

All in all, I understand why the retail pricing of largescale items has increase so much due to increased China factory wholesale costs and shipping costs. When I started in largescale, the locos and cars were actually a bargain, when you considered what you got, in comparison to HO Scale. 

The present and future pricing of large scale brings an end to any future significant large scale locomotive or car purchases from me unless: 

a mfg produces something that is an absolute "Must Have" where I say to myself " Forget the cost, it is magnificent and I will buy it anyway as I am only walking around on this planet once! " 

A USA TRAINS die cast PS-1 Pacific in the "Southern" roadname in apple green with the silver smokebox is such an item. I can eat cheaply for a long time to pay for such an item and feel that the money value was there to warrant the financial sacrifice ! 

So that is the bottom line: the money value is no longer there in large scale at the current and future higher prices. 


Norman


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I note that there are multiple responses mentioning gasoline prices and plastic model prices, but no one has connected the dots yet. 

They are made of the same thing: Oil. 

And right now, there is a fast increasing demand for oil in the global economy coupled with an incoherent, wrong-headed, and worthless energy policy by the US. 

Add in the Fed's current attempts at quantitative easing, coupled with the redux of failed Keynesian economic policies from the 70's, and it's truly amazing the economy hasn't spawned stagflation again. 

Give it a couple of quarters if we don't change course soon... 

Robert


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm... 

1) No Hobby shops carrying LS closer than Anchorage, which I very rarely get too, and I doubt they have much there anyhow. 

2) I do find myself buying everything from glue to bits of balso wood at the craft stores that are close by, but that is because I am finally assembling some of the stuff I've been collecting. 

3) In connection with point two, apart from various 'fix-it' stuff like couplers and like stuff, I simply don't need to buy well...hardly anything. 

4) That said, my money situation, by my standards anyhow, is actually fairly good. 

5) Not only that, real cheap LS sets do appear on the shelves of Home Depot and elsewhere during the Holiidaze. I look them over real carefull, but so far havn't had the impulse to buy any yet.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, to be honest -I never *have* been a buyer!!! No-one seems to make the locos and rolling stock that I like -so I have been forced to make my own. Wether this is cheaper I cannot now say as I now have locos that are quite frankly unique and unsellable.... I would like to state that in the UK Petrol is currently running at around £1.70p per LITRE = *$6.43c per US gallon*. This has forced me to move over to internet shopping and courier delivery. Whereas I would have toddled don to the city centre and perused the bits on offer at the local model shops I now sit at home and wander through the pages of the catalogues and hit "DONE"... 

regards 

ralph


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Retired, fixed income
Cost to much, the price is getting a little ridiculous, 
Don't have any more room to store them, 

Don


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I still buy stuff, but less than I used to, because I have pretty much all the stuff I want. I was really excited when I first heard Aristo was coming out with a Consolidation, because I really like smaller steam locos, but then they took so long bringing it out that I ended up just kitbashing two myself. I would not buy one of the new consols because of quality control problems.

I'll probably buy the new PIKO NYC 0-6-0 when it comes out. Piko seems to be trying to make robust, simple and inexpensive models, and they seem to have improved on the 0-6-0 tank switcher they released before.
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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm being more conservative with my buying due to the economy. Spending more on upgrading what I have....sound systems, trucks/wheels, a few cattle cars and just sprucing up my railroad. Next acquision will be a NS Dash 9. Wanted one for some time. Vacation trip cancelled due to wife's new job and training so will use that $ for purchase. Other than those, will just enjoy what I have for the rest of the year. God is Good....and has allowed us to retain our low income status....better than no income status. Content (most of the time).


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

it's just priorities. 
i'm into largescale for 42 years now. even with my self imposed limit of one dollar a day for the hobby, by now i have got nearly everything i want. 
for me the fun is in making things myself. buying only, when something i want is offered really cheap - and having patience.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

2 trains, 2 hands full. 
Never wanted the most, happy with what I have. 
Let the modelling begin! 
Will always have a soft spot for More Track.... but have other prioties now. 
John


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

I've been in G Gauge for 3.5 years now. I have a 340 foot Aristo Stainless Steel rail layout operating but ruff details still need work..... Have 8 R7 Switches.. 

In the last year I purchases 5 new average $200 ea PIKO G DC engines (3 Tauruses, 1 Mogul, & 1 BR-218).. Also bought 2 MTH Tankers... 

Have now 20 Engines, 25 Passenger cars, & 45 Freight cars... Storage is beginning to be a mini Problem.... Have 3 PIKO G pass cars on Order... 

Rather than buying rolling stock in the near Future..... Labor & time to tweek the Layout & rolling stock are the TOP Priority... This Season.. 

Dennis M 

PS: Participating in mixed G Gauge Train Shows & attending G Conventions, & G Garden RR layout Tours is now part of this Summer's plans...........


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I model a specific prototype, so I've rarely been one to buy something "just because." It's got to be somehow related to the EBT (or easily made to be so) for me to want to spend money on it. (b) My railroad can only accommodate so much rolling stock--about 19 cars without filling the sidings to capacity along the way. Typically, I run 14 - 16 during an operating session. I'm already well in excess of that number, so there's little incentive for me to purchase new rolling stock. (c) I'm running out of storage space. I don't envision any of those circumstances changing any time soon, so I highly doubt I'll be doing much to keep any manufacturer in business any time soon. 

I do have "wish list" items, but they'll be purchased if/when extra funds present themselves. In the mean time, I'll certainly be keeping the local nurseries in business buying groundcovers and small evergreens. There's always _something_ on the railroad to take my extra money. It's just not always the things with wheels and couplers. 

Later, 

K


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm...the responses to this thread might not bode well for LS manufacturers, other than specialty items and cheapo holidaze stuff and followups...


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Not buying? 

How 'bout desperately clinging to middle class by my fingernails while our president stomps on my fingers shouting "TAX THE RICH!" 

Oh, I did buy a freight car in February. Robbie had an Aristo Suzie Q 40 ft box car for $41, so I swiped it before he noticed


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## d_sinsley (Mar 29, 2011)

As I read through this thread, I can't help but get a little lump. I am one of the lucky ones, I guess. I work in a job that is pretty darn secure and I can say that I haven't felt the crunch like others have. Gas sucks, but I can live with it. I don't like it but I can tolerate it. I am a scratch builder and new loco prices are just to high to spend the money on them in any economy in my opinion. Had I not been a scratch builder and HO guy I wouldn't have given G Scale a second thought once I saw the prices. I am bit by the bug though and I will spend money here and there as I always have in this and other hobbies. 

For those feeling the crunch, I pray for you. For those on fixed incomes that are suffering the effects of an very unfixed economy, I pray for you. For those who have to forgo what they love because they don't have enough for what they need, I pray for you. For me to say it's going to get better is like telling a man who is on fire that the fire truck is on the way, so instead I will pray for you. 


Hang tough train friends


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

The problem is counter productive in L.S. as well as life in general anymore... 

The Big companies don't make enough money, and want more... 

But the customer base is drying up and getting paid less, while the paper we spend gets thinnnner - so we get even less use out of it. Inflation is going up - more than most will acknowledge... 10-11 %... not a great sign, what if it goes up more!!???? 

So it is difficult being in this hobby or anything else, like food and Gas, and still being in a position to spend freely on it all. And get what we need first and want second. 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## curlyp (Sep 4, 2009)

Ditto what many others have said. I am building kits I have picked up over the last few years. I need a lot more track for the next phase of the railroad but that may take a while to procure as I wait for sales and used track to become available. 

Paul


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I was always a selective buyer and had a plan for what i wanted. I've never "collected" trains just to have them, I use what i own and my layout is a small narrow guage line so thankfully, i don't need alot of stuff. The thing that is really killing me is having to give my hobby money to my ex. 

Terry


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Price of metal, due to inflation. 
I have about 100ft of brass track. Ill start doing my layout when i have about 300 or so ft. 
I cant afford the $5-8/ft. I keep my eyes out for $1-2/ft used track. I dont mind completely tarnished rail that i have to put a good bit of elbow grease to get running again. 

Im also looking at getting or making a roll former and die so i can get brass stock and make my own from the raw materials, including wood ties (rip down 2x4s is about the cheapest).


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am not buying because I don't much used stuff on the market at a reasonable price.

More than 90% of my RR is used rolling stock.

I have several Saved Searches on E bay watching for Used stuff I may want.

JJ


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Bills come first. Too often there's nothing left


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Still buying. But not as much as a few years ago. Got lucky years back, and bought a lot of brass track before it went completely crazy- $$$$. Over time I bought most of the 'wish list' locos and rolling stock. Now I spend the time (and money) building structures, building bridges, adding sound, and still purchase some occasional pieces of rolling stock. 


-Kevin.


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

I guess in this bad economic time it might be a good thing to do trades for getting items one needs by trading off items one doesn't need. I've got to motivate to get a sales/trade list going. I know I have a bunch of track both brass and NS that have american ties that I'll never use. Also need to get rid of these little 20 ft cars that I converted some to 4 axle and others that are stock. Won't hurt to part with all the 4 ft radius switches either. It all takes up space and that's at a premium around here. Perhaps Shad could do a section in the classified for trading besides selling and buying(wanted) ??? An idea don't you think ???

Rocky


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## general1861 (Jan 22, 2010)

Rocky, Don't forget me on your list of stuff..Travis


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Could someone explain why? when oil and gas goes up everything else goes up. But when the prices of oil and gas goes down nothing else dose.
And why gas goes down 2-3 cents at a time, but goes up 20- 30 cents at a time.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

I expect to spend a little more each year. I've been involved for about 2 years now and love every minute I can spend working on the railroad. I bought a Ruby and some used track to set up a small dog bone in the yard. Between trying to get some retaining walls built so the yard is usable and a new baby boy, I don't get lots of extra time. I intend to scratch build most things as I move forward, including most of the Live steam I will have on the roster some day. With the exception of track I won't be buying much except plenty of castings, trucks, wheels ect. I think there will always be suppliers that have ready to run items , but their price tag may convince many to start building and bring the hobby back closer to it's roots. For now I haven't used all the castings I bought at last years ECLSTS, but I'm hoping to change that soon!


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

I finally decided that I had no real interest in 1:29 standard gauge. Most of my stuff is 1:22.5 and 1:24 from 10 to 20 years ago. Sold off the bulk of the 1:29, which allowed me to purchase a 2-6-6-2t in 1:22.5. 

Most of the time in recent years, I have saved-up all year and gone to ECLSTS with a wish list. This year I actually had enough saved for the entire wish list. I did have to phone in two orders for items that did not show at ECLSTS. 

There are still a few items I would like for certain projects, plus one small live steamer - probably a Regner Willie. I will continue to save for those items, but things are pretty close to saturated for me after 27 years in large scale. 

Have fun, 
David Meashey


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 09 Apr 2012 08:24 AM 
Could someone explain why? when oil and gas goes up everything else goes up. But when the prices of oil and gas goes down nothing else dose.
And why gas goes down 2-3 cents at a time, but goes up 20- 30 cents at a time. 




Not sure where you are located, however our gas prices do not jump 20 to 30 cents at at time. Over the last few weeks, we have gone up 2 or 3 cents a time, but have been holding at 3.64.9 for about 2 weeks now. Same is true of other suppliers in our general area. We have two Murphy Oil Stations within five miles of our station. One is sitting at 3.77 and the other at 3.69...go figure. Both are located at a Wal-Mart Super Center in the same town...one on the south side and the other the north. I do know that in many parts of the country stations are well over $4.00 per gallon. That's a shame. No reason other than greed in my opinion. Of course that will get some negative feedback I'm sure. Then again supply and demand has a lot to do with pricing.


It is a fact however that when things go up due to fuel costs, they usually don't come back down regardless of what oil prices do. We are very fortunate that our vehicles are paid for and in good shape. Hope to make them last a few more years....then when we need to replace them I will probably be complaining about gas prices too!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave Meashey on 09 Apr 2012 10:07 AM 


There are still a few items I would like for certain projects, plus one small live steamer - probably a Regner Willie. I will continue to save for those items, but things are pretty close to saturated for me after 27 years in large scale. 

Have fun, 
David Meashey I'm pretty much in the same boat. I've been in the large scale hobby since 1984. LS has had it's "ups and downs" during that time (a couple of bad recessions in there). Laid-off a few times during those recessions! But large scale survived and so did I. I have a very large collection of LGB stored.....a couple 2018D moguls, few LGB J&S cars, LGB American NG freight, ABBA F7's, loads of Aristo streamline cars, few USA diesels and USAT freight. I'm saturated, too! I also have a few hundred feet of used LGB brass 332. Another 600 feet of NEW LGB brass track. Saving all this for my grandchildren. Lost interest in 1/29. Started doing 1/20 Colorado NG about 6 years ago and building a NG layout using code 250 aluminum rail. Am I real happy about the cost of LS going up, especially track? NO!!! But I have been retired for almost ten years. We have a fixed, but very comfortable income due to careful planning many years ago. NOT easy, but doable. This recession has made me more careful about spending, but has no way stopped my spending.

As far as the price of oil and gas is concerned, we still drive as before. It pinches the wallet, but doesn't stop us. Oil and oil products are definitely raising the cost of LS items. Plastics contain oil products. Trucks and ships that carry LS products to market, use oil. It's got to have an impact on prices. I don't think the "green"folks have figured out how to run a semi on lettuce leaves yet. It's going to take a good many years for all this to evolve. This is a rough recession, no doubt and I feel very sorry for you have lost jobs. The ones who I really feel for are those that just stopped looking altogether. That's the worst feeling of helplessness there can be.


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## H-man (Jan 4, 2008)

Price isn't the problem, room and selection is, How many 40-50' boxcars can you have and use. need more selection of steam era cars, gons, hoppers, boxcars. AML made a nice wood reefer and have a few. maybe shorter runs with varied selection of wood mainline cars in 1/29nd 

howard


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## RailCat (Apr 10, 2009)

Have around 30 1/29 scale freight cars which is a large enough assortment for a 44-ton switcher to work with. 

Need a little more track and switches. Want to get an NCE Cab 06PR and another repeater. I need figure out the best way to sell my Aristo Revo transmitter and receivers and accessories which I no longer need. I find my 44-ton runs just fine on the same 12 volt setting I use with my HO so I will use the NCE system for both. 

Not doing much with my LGB since I seem to have motors dying left and right for no apparent reason. They all go bad in the forward direction and they all have very little use. They are kept and run indoors so I assume it is an age related problem. I think the Porters use different motors since they seem to be unaffected so far. I'll probably just use them when I want to run LGB stuff. I have considered purchasing one of the new Porters this year but am reluctant after my one Marklin-LGB diesel ate both axle gears the first time I ran it on the test track (discovered afterwards that the gearbox cover was too tight and journals were not lubed). 

Have all the Bachmann metal wheelsets I need for the LGB cars. I need a few more sets of metal wheels and a few more sets of Kadee couplers for my 1/29 scale stuff. 

I am fortunate to be employed now and into the foreseeable future so money really isn't a factor. I simply have enough already for my space and do not wish to buy a larger house. 

-Scott


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

****, I'm still buying, make me something that I need, or want, an I don't mean another 40 ft boxcar with another hokey 
paint scheme either, got plenty of that already... The mfgrs have almost quit bringing out anything new for a long time 
now... Somehow they can't seem to get thru their heads that "Ya can't sell from an empty wagon", an all I see out there 
is empty wagons... How about some 50-60 ft gons & flats for starters, an I'll take a whole bunch of 2 bay rib-side, strainght 
sill or fishbelly hoppers too... I build and kitbash most of my engs & rolling stock anymore, not because I really want to, 
but because thats the only way I'm gonna get it....
Paul R...


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Not buying trains 'cause I have all I need for a small railroad that at this point, is a track plan and a bed of posies. I do spend money on modeling supplies, such as paint and tools (as needed) to help me construct yet another building I probably won't need. But hey, it's fun! Now if Bachmann--and that's about all I can afford--came out with a nice loco, say a turn-of-the-century mogul or, a 10-wheeler or connie in 1:20.3 (no more geared, logging stuff or saddle tankers, please), I'd buy it. Ditto, a nice sidedoor caboose, although I have the platform (an Accucraft flatcar), siding and plans to make my own if I ever get off my butt and away from this computer. 

I think this malaise is a large scale thing. I read MR regulary and I don't see those guys slowing down much. There's a huge inventory of locos, rolling stock, buildings, etc and new stuff coming out every month. And the stuff ain't free, so it's not a cost issue. Maybe some of our guys--the ones without genuine problems like unemployment, debt, health issues--are just bored.


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Money is tight and prices are rising. I have a mini storage (10x20) full of trains and track waiting for me once I build a new home. I have all I need for now.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By joe rusz on 10 Apr 2012 11:33 PM 
Not buying trains 'cause I have all I need for a small railroad that at this point, is a track plan and a bed of posies. I do spend money on modeling supplies, such as paint and tools (as needed) to help me construct yet another building I probably won't need. But hey, it's fun! Now if Bachmann--and that's about all I can afford--came out with a nice loco, say a turn-of-the-century mogul or, a 10-wheeler or connie in 1:20.3 (no more geared, logging stuff or saddle tankers, please), I'd buy it. Ditto, a nice sidedoor caboose, although I have the platform (an Accucraft flatcar), siding and plans to make my own if I ever get off my butt and away from this computer. 

I think this malaise is a large scale thing. I read MR regulary and I don't see those guys slowing down much. There's a huge inventory of locos, rolling stock, buildings, etc and new stuff coming out every month. And the stuff ain't free, so it's not a cost issue. Maybe some of our guys--the ones without genuine problems like unemployment, debt, health issues--are just bored. 

Piko has come out with a dandy little Mogul, under $200 even, and will be releasing an 0-6-0 switcher version later this year, which I'll probably buy somewhere down the line, and so far my Piko 0-6-0 saddletanker runs well but then I'm also not trying to pull 10 full sized cars uphill with it either.









I firmly beleive the time out by LGB during the bankruptcy and the rebooting really has had a lasting ripple effect throughout the hobby as they were the main face of large scale, couple the economy and the non-stop price increases and its easy to understand why things are slow. Hobbies need new membership to keep the ball rolling as they tend to buy the most stuff to get established and for newbies its hard to plan when you dont know how much your track or trains will cost when you finally get around to building. So all were getting left with are already established layouts and we're not buying because we've already bought most of the stuff we need so its kind of a vicious spiral, rising overseas costs drive newbies away leaving oldies who dont buy alot of new stuff or track leading mfrs to raise prices again to cover lessening profit margins because no newbies are entering the hobby to buy lots of new stuff or track which makes everything more expensive so even oldies buy less and on and on....


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I think this malaise is a large scale thing. I read MR regulary and I don't see those guys slowing down much. There's a huge inventory of locos, rolling stock, buildings, etc and new stuff coming out every month. And the stuff ain't free, so it's not a cost issue. Maybe some of our guys--the ones without genuine problems like unemployment, debt, health issues--are just bored. 

I wonder if this malaise you speak of is more common in large scale because we tend to be more 'loners' than the small scale guys? I think we shouldn't underestimate importance of the social part of the hobby--it's a big part of what keeps those small scale guys interested. Everything is more fun when you have someone to share it with and that's harder to do with large scale because we tend not to have club layouts like the small scale guys. Maybe what we need is a better approach to how clubs run or how we can improve the social aspect? I hate to say it, but maybe there is something to be learned from the small scale guys? 

As for buying new stuff....I'm out of shelf space but since I model the Swiss RhB there has been a real surge of excellent products in the last couple of years which is making it hard to resist. For ages there was very little available except from LGB, and even then it was expensive and not that detailed. With Maerklin there has been a change to much more detailed RhB models and Kiss is making some excellent products at a reasonable price too. So I'm still buying, but more focused on quality instead of quantity. Fortunately it's a good time to be a RhB fan. That being said, when I see the prices of things like the Dash-9's I don't think price can be an issue. The small scale guys pay that much for some of their locos! I think if we're motivated we will find the money one way or another and give up something else. So I think we need to figure out how to increase the social/team play aspect to keep the hobby growing. 

Keith


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I think this malaise is a large scale thing. I read MR regulary and I don't see those guys slowing down much. 

Consider it the "economy of 'scale.'" 

I think part (much?) of that lies in the fact that it's called "small scale" for a reason. It's easier to store, maneuver, pretty much everything (except see). You can build an 8' long, 7-track siding in HO scale, and store 70 - 100 cars easily on that. Take that same footprint, and you'll be lucky to fit 7 - 10 large scale cars. Small scalers, if they have "off-railroad" storage, typically have that storage in a display shelf or cabinet right in their train room. We schlep our stuff from basements, workshops, garages, or--if we're lucky--a nearby garden shed. If we're _really_ lucky, we have a track that leads into that garden shed, but typically, we're carrying cars out to the railroad two or three at a time. And most of us do that every time we want to run. I'm reminded of this every time I roll my big wagon full of one locomotive and 10 cars to a train show, and the guy next to me has a shoebox with an N-scale 100-car coal drag inside. It's a lot easier for us in large scale to say "ya know, I've got enough" simply because of the logistics of storing and handling it. 

Later, 

K


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## Ken101Ward (Jan 1, 2010)

I lost my job 13 months ago when my former employer went out of business. I saved enough to survive the 7 months of unemployment but my new job pays 22% less than the last one. I'm at the point where I have to saveup for rail clamps. 
I brought my track during Aristo's January track sale in 2010, and if I had not, I would have decided to get out of the hobby. 
All my rolling stock and two loco's were brought used off Ebay. This hobby is very expensive, but I wanted something fun my Daughter and myself could do outside, and she's so excited to start laying track this summer. So hopefully the cost of the hobby 
does not keep rising cause I would like to be able to afford some switches in the future.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I know I'm over the hill, well... past 60 at least, the hands and eyes do not and can't do what I did in HO years ago!! 

There is the "WOW factor" in LS that will never be in HO either. But another thing not really mentioned is the value factor. HO has gone up in prices also, everything has gone up,... only way commodities go is up!! To me tho there is a much greater "value" for what I spend in having something I CAN work on and see. If I was still in HO, I would maybe just not be into trains at all.. :~{ That is not a great option for a hobby lover is it! So G-scale it is!! I can old em, when I'm not dropping stuff?? I can see to work on 'em! They look so much cooler running in a natural space outdoors even. By volume - they might even be less expensive than HO is...? 

What I find is it is difficult to buy in the present tense and current price structure we are in today. Yet, the future is also becoming very unpredictable / very unclear. That said I have found myself shopping out of "desperation", I can't afford to buy stuff in today's market. But worse,.. is that I can't afford it in the coming market of higher prices, So I'm buying anyway....even tho I really can't afford it! 

I'm sticking with LS !!!! 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

Keith, your "loners" comment raises an interesting point. I think that to some extent, all hobbyists tend to have a bit of loner in them. That's why they live in a dream world (usually a perfect one) in which they escape from reality. Now some of us like to find others like ourselves to share our fantasy, while others don't. You can tell from some of the threads and the respective posts, that some people do not play well with others. I've read that the legendary John Allen was a loner who was very demanding with both himself (he once tore apart an engine house he had scratchbuilt because he thought it didn't live up to his high standards) and with his few friends, who he shared operating seeions with. 

Kevin, your comments bring up another point: that the sheer size of large scale may simply overwhelm many of us. Ya build stuff, collect stuff, try to find a place for it, and sometimes just can't cope anymore, If we're persistant enough to hang on, then we press on. Otherwise, we throw in the towel and say, "I've had enough." 

Speaking for myself (again) I love to make buildings and as long as there's a house, store, factory out there that's begging to be modeled, I'm a happy guy. Now if I can find a place to put all that stuff...


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have restrained from adding to this thread, but I feel the time has come. I have been in this hobby since 1979. I have a lot of cars and engines that I acquired from LGB in the early years. and in the later years I have acquired Delton, Usat, Aristo, Accucraft, and kits from NENG, Sheridan, and Phil's Narrow Gauge. I have probably left someone out. My collection is as complete as I want at the moment. I have items that I recently found that tweaked my interest. It has to be something special and at a good price. That doesn't happen often, so I don't buy much. Until there are new offerings, I'm not going to be buying much. 

In the past year I had two major purchases. The first was a USAt GG1 with 5 passenger cars for the price of the GG1, and the second was a very good deal on a latest model Bachmann Shay. While we were in Tuscon last month I got two cars at the Ace Hardware store on east 22nd.



For me to get something it has to be special and at a good price. Like others have said, space for storage is a limiting factor. We have inherited a house in Arizona, so some of my rolling stock has migrated west to keep me entertained. My layout out here is a loop with two passing sidings. It does the job. We have added buildings, people and animals to the patio and it looks **** a western railroad, sort of.


Since at home in Virginia I usually run 1:29 or 1:20.5, the Arizona house lets us run the LGB, Delton and USA (1:24).

When new items that attract my interest come out, I'll consider additional purchases. Until then purchases will be few and far between. 


Chuck


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

The main reason I don't buy much is the cost. The price of freight cars that I would like to have are beyond my price range now. I have started scratchbuilding the freight cars that I cannot find and are enjoying it. They are also less expensive than they ones I would buy. The onlything I would like to have for the layout is a USA smoothside passenger train in City of New Orleans colors. 
Ron


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Chuck, 

How much time are you spending in Sunny AZ. these days? 

Dirk 
Dragoon, AZ 
DMS Ry.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

A couple of months this year, We're heading east in a couple of weeks.

Chuck 


PS, I just looked up Dragoon. We've been close in passing on I-10, but I'm not familiar with your town. A couple of years ago a snow storm on our usual route (I-40) dictated a more southerly route. We stayed overnight in Wilcox. I have to admit that the only Large Scaler I knew about southeast of Tucson was John in Vail. 


Nancy and I have enjoyed the Tucson GRS open houses for the past two years. Perhaps you and John could add an interesting detour.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Just when it gets nice, you leave, hehe!! 

I'll be at the Dan Hoag open house the weekend after next - Sat.. 

Meet when you come back this way maybe!?? 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk:

We'll be at Dan's Saturday morning. I need to see a man (Rick Isard) about some batteries and a charger. Perhaps we'll cross paths (Or in this part of the country wagon tracks).


Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Chuck, 

John and I still have not met face to face... 

I'm 10 minutes off I-10, exit 318!! And I'm new on this station here, keep my head down - sort of - and am starting a layout also!! 
Have you seen "DMS Ry. - One Man's Journey?" ....under track work, etc. I have been updating my progress lately... 

Look for you at Dan's then!! I tend to be on the tall side...Or send me a pm next week... 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk:

I've seen your thread, but now I'll have to take a closer look.

Got your PMs. Not PMS. Hope to see you at Dan's.

Chuck


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