# Has anyone experienced crumbling metal parts on Spectrum cars?



## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Folks, I recently got a couple of Murphy roof Bachmann Spectrum cars. Both arrived with severely damaged trucks, bolsters and with broken stirrup steps. These are all metal parts which should be strong, very strong in fact.
Is this a new phenomenon on these recent cars, or have all previous Spectrum cars been produced from such extremely low quality metal?
I asked the question about low metal quality on Bachmann LS Forum, and it was deleted within minutes...
With best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I operate these cars regularly, both from the initial production run and the later side-door gons and Murphy roof box cars. So far, no sign of deterioration of the diecast trucks or parts.

I will be following your situation with interest, as the bulk of my 1:20 rolling stock is Bachmann spectrum.

Larry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've never had issues, either. I've had the stirrup steps get knocked off the cars (and lost in the groundcover forever), and the journal caps suffer similar fates, but I've never had the metal parts physically break. Perhaps call Bachmann's parts department and see if they can offer any assistance? 

Later,

K


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I've had similar experiences to Larry and Kevin. Did you get these new or were the used and possibly abused before you received them?

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

File with the delivery company.... sounds like drop-kick shipping...

John


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

chuck n said:


> I've had similar experiences to Larry and Kevin. Did you get these new or were the used and possibly abused before you received them?
> 
> Chuck


Chuck, these were brand new boxcars. Bought from a large and reputable train store. Because they were the same colour, I managed to make one out of two... Zubi


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the reply, I'm sorry that they didn't arrive in good condition. I guess if it was me I'd send pictures to the store and the shipping company.

As far as any of us know these cars are very durable. I'm not the most gentle with mine. I take them to shows and other layouts. Not always packed the best.

Chuck


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

chuck n said:


> I've had similar experiences to Larry and Kevin. Did you get these new or were the used and possibly abused before you received them?
> 
> Chuck


John, I doubt that this damage has anything to do with the shipping experience. I took one damaged truck side-frame in my hands and did a little test of strength. The slightest force results in breakage. In a matter of minutes, I had a handful of little pieces left of the side-frame. The metal used breaks like biscuit - it is unbelievable. I have experience with other trucks, Accucraft, PSC, 3-Foot, Aster, Hartford, all brass trucks are very strong. Some brasses may be brittle, but you have to exert pretty strong force to break brass. Hartford is weak and bends easily, however, it does not break. Plasticity is its strength. I have never seen anything as weak and useless as these Spectrum metal parts. They are weaker than poor plastic. At least these on the Murphy roof box cars which I just bought. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

East Broad Top said:


> I've never had issues, either. I've had the stirrup steps get knocked off the cars (and lost in the groundcover forever), and the journal caps suffer similar fates, but I've never had the metal parts physically break. Perhaps call Bachmann's parts department and see if they can offer any assistance?
> 
> Later,
> 
> K


Kevin, yes, I know the journal caps can get detached, but they can be glued on. These are plastic parts and they are relatively strong. What did you do in the case of stirrup steps knocked off? Did you manage to get new ones ordered from Bachmann's parts department? I emailed them and emailed service department and none responded. The stirrup steps are metal. Best wishes, Zubi


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Larry Green said:


> I operate these cars regularly, both from the initial production run and the later side-door gons and Murphy roof box cars. So far, no sign of deterioration of the diecast trucks or parts.
> 
> I will be following your situation with interest, as the bulk of my 1:20 rolling stock is Bachmann spectrum.
> 
> Larry


Larry, that is good news. I have about 20 cars from Bachmann, all older stock, I did not run them but they all arrived in problem free condition. But the two new Murphy roof cars were both damaged, both details and structural damage to trucks and car frame (bolsters). I analysed the problem and the quality of the metal used is appealing - this is just a joke in my opinion. Any misalignment will cause the truck frame to break... Well, the plastic rest of the cars is weak but acceptable. This could be a good 3D printing project to reproduce cast metal parts for these cars from stronger material - even cheap plastic would be (much) better in my opinion. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I think you are a victim of bad quality control.
I remember castings crumbling decades ago. Zamak when contaminated crumbled too. Here is a link to the cause... sorry no cure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest

John


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Zubi
John hit the target. The stuff is made in China and the workers do not understand that it only take a little bit of impurity to destroy the quality of the casting material. It is claimed that in the early days at Lionel employees who smoked would put their cigarette ashes into the pot metal, having no idea that they were creating a problem. 

Since you purchased from a reputable dealer... send the parts back to them and ask for a new car in exchange.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Zubi,

Anything new with your crumbling truck situation?

Larry


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Totalwrecker said:


> I think you are a victim of bad quality control.
> I remember castings crumbling decades ago. Zamak when contaminated crumbled too. Here is a link to the cause... sorry no cure.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_pest
> 
> John



John,
Thank you for providing this link to what appears to be a fairly well known problem. However, I thought that it is a problem of the past... I heard of cast metal trucks melting on Accucraft Shays, but until I experienced it myself, metal did not fall to bits like biscuit... Now, it is possible that this is an isolated issue, but cast parts are not made one by one. They are cast from a large amount of melted alloy and they are cast in a large if not huge quantity - if one wants to make a mass produced product that is. To make this long story short, yes you are right, I am a victim of bad quality control. But I am most likely not the only one who is or will be the victim of this. Please remember, I received two Murphy box cars, and both were damaged. Then I received a 'replacement' stirrup step, which apparently has been torn off one of the Murphy cars, and this too, crumbled to bits when I attempted to adjust it to the car body for replacement... So there you are, no cure is the verdict.
Best wishes from Tokyo, 
Zubi


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Dr Rivet said:


> Zubi
> John hit the target. The stuff is made in China and the workers do not understand that it only take a little bit of impurity to destroy the quality of the casting material. It is claimed that in the early days at Lionel employees who smoked would put their cigarette ashes into the pot metal, having no idea that they were creating a problem.
> 
> Since you purchased from a reputable dealer... send the parts back to them and ask for a new car in exchange.



Jim, thanks for this note. I actually forwarded the note and the link to this thread to the dealer in question. They offered a discount on another car - not a replacement. But I can still use the plastic body of the old car for some project. In my case, the shipping is dreadfully expensive, this makes things much more complicated when items arrive broken or if the quality is unacceptable (in this case plain rubbish not quality). I am still waiting for the parcel with the 'replacement' car. I guess, it might arrive broken too, but I may be able to make one car from two, or two from three... And hope that they will not fall apart if wind blows a bit harder... I sound cynical, I know, but selling parts made from metal supposed to be stronger than plastic but crumbling to bits is not acceptable. And the fact that my thread with a genuine inquiry about the quality of these castings has been deleted within minutes on the official Bachmann Large Scale Forum, speaks for itself. In my humble opinion. Anyway, I am grateful to the dealer who agreed to give partial compensation. With best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Larry Green said:


> Hi Zubi,
> 
> Anything new with your crumbling truck situation?
> 
> Larry


Larry, I had to leave this matter for the Christmas and new year break, the dealer promised to send me another car, I should receive it in a couple of weeks. But I am worried that this is not an isolated problem but a problem which affects the entire batch or maybe more than one batch. Coincidentally, yesterday I received a couple of old hoppers, they appear to have been pretty well used, and everything is there in a decent shape, (nothing broken, only paint chipped here or there as it would be on a car well used and not just displayed) Yes, there is one a minor parts missing (a latch locking the bottom dropping door - I do not know exact terminology here), but I think it was missing from moment of assembly at the factory. So my guess is that these cars are capable of enduring some stress, and that majority of the cars we own (including myself = 20+) may be equipped with decent quality castings. But there may be one or more batches, where this is not the case. One would have to carefully examine parts from every batch for strength durability etc, something that every respectable manufacturer should do before putting things on the market, of course. But as things are, this did not happen. Sadly, we do not have any other alternative but to scratch build replacement parts. There are no manufacturers who would produce compatible brass parts. And sadly, I do not see any such manufacturers entering the businesses. Our hobby is small, and although we are extremely lucky to have Accucraft and LGB still alive and managing somehow to produce quality products, small businesses essentially all went belly up. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

For you Folks who are not afraid of looking at graphic contents, here is what is left from the truck sideframe and a couple of stirrup steps... Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

https://www.flickr.com/gp/zubisan/2b6x6H

https://www.flickr.com/gp/zubisan/632ekf


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## mickb (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi Zubi
just read this. I received a couple of Murphy roof Bachmann Spectrum cars from the States some months ago in Australia , one was fine the other had three of the four stirrup steps broken off the forth one broke off as soon as I touched it. All were in little bits however the trucks were fine.
Mick


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

mickb said:


> Hi Zubi
> just read this. I received a couple of Murphy roof Bachmann Spectrum cars from the States some months ago in Australia , one was fine the other had three of the four stirrup steps broken off the forth one broke off as soon as I touched it. All were in little bits however the trucks were fine.
> Mick



Mick, Thanks for the note! Just don't touch the trucks;-)... hahaha....!!! Well, your stirrup steps story sounds familiar... Have you found good replacements? Or did you fabricate your own? In my case on two Murphy cars which I first received, one truck was broken to bits. In the other car, the frame bolster on which the truck is mounted was broken. Bachmann service was unable to send the bolster... So I decided to get the whole new car, it still did not arrive, I just hope that it will come more intact than less... Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Folks, good news. I received a replacement Murphy box car from the dealer and it arrived in a perfect shape. Although I am too afraid to brake off these stirrup steps so I will just keep the car as a shelf queen... It would be nice to have brass replacements for these stirrup steps. Hartford used to make some brass parts, but Bob sold his business. In the UK, David Bailey used to make some brass parts. Maybe I will contact him. Anyone has any pointers to how/where to get brass castings done? Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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