# Low Tech, backsaving, semi-automatic manual switch machine



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

A piece of bent wire and a stick, add a screw for Deluxe opperation, but isn't really needed.

A tad frugal perhaps or simply cheap, that's me! 
I have a fetish for Spring switches because they allow my mind to wander as the trains run my reverse loops.
I dislike the black boxes that Aristo provides, takes me way back to Lionel tinplate trains...

The new machine .. 2 inches of spring steel wire 0.032" 










A bend in the middle and a 90 degree bend on each end.

Installed;









Above is set for both ways flop over. Both holes are drilled in center of tie and throw bar (determined with points at mid throw)
To favor one side or the other move tie hole a tad to the opposit side.

To activate open spring slightly, just enough so you must compress slightly to insert, the more you open, the stiffer to throw.

The Principle: The end of the spring wants to describe an arc as it moves from one side to the other, the travel of the tiebar forces the end to travel a near straight line compressing it at the center, movement past that allows the spring to open and push the points all the way over and lock them in place.

The stick ... I used some old 3/4" PVC about 3 feet long, make it as long as you like.
The Deluxe addition ... 2 inches of self tapping screw. 1 1/4" showing.









Operation;










Set 'stick' between points and give it a little twist and the screw will push the points over. You could tap/push the points, but too much force and the switch moves too, so I twist.
Amazingly a finger can do it too!
It would be very easy to add a target indicator; wire in tubing, a bell crank and targets on top. Your wrist can easily change the signal as it bends the iron.

My critters are mericiless so I'm cutting down on stuff for them to remove. 

I keep the sticks handy where they are needed and for me I can see which way the rails are set.

The spring design came from Model Railroader magazine, 40 or 50 years ago.

Happy Rails

John


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've long been a proponent of those kinds of switch throws. Simple, elegant, and very effective. (And most importantly, nothing to stick up above the rails to trip over.) On my dad's railroad, he uses 3/8" dowel rods with a flat blade at the end of them to throw the switches and uncouple the cars. (He uses Kadee #1 couplers). Thanks for the photos of the springs! As long as I've been using them, I keep forgetting to take good photos of them to spread the word. 

Later, 

K


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

They worked very nicely when we were running at John's last month. My Mallet ran through a closed switch at the opening of the return loops and popped it over without derailing the pilot truck. I was very impressed with the simplicity of it. Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, Tom Ruby posted that style of spring quite a long time ago, I have the picture somewhere. I think he used a safety pin for the first ones. 

Greg


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm a little slow, but I have 5 new Train li switches coming out of my train shed, and I could do something like that. I don't know what the wire is for. I could flip the switches with a piece of pvc pipe, and be done with it. So Help me out, what does the wire do, other than hold the track in place in either position.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

It is a manual switch control. It moves the points and holds them in the new position. Without the spring the pionts could move as a train traverses the switch, causing a derailment. It is an elegant and simple solution to manual switch control. In my experience, all commercial manual or electric switch controls have problems when used outside, especially in areas with a lot of rain. The springs rust and the box fills with mud and insects. Chuck


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bottino on 13 May 2013 05:20 PM 
I'm a little slow, but I have 5 new Train li switches coming out of my train shed, and I could do something like that. I don't know what the wire is for. I could flip the switches with a piece of pvc pipe, and be done with it. So Help me out, what does the wire do, other than hold the track in place in either position. 

It is nice for an automatic loopback where the train enters one direction and when it exits, the switch is thrown to allow it out and remains in that setting so that when the train returns it then traverses the loopback in the opposite direction. 

It is better that a simple spring switch because when a train exits against the setting of the switch, the switch throws completely instead of just moving over to let the wheels out one at a time. If you stop midway through the switch and back up you will split the train across the switch... the part of the train that had already passed through the switch will not return in the direction of the part of the train that didn't pass it.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

When a train is approaching the points, its a manual switch, when approaching from the frog side it's semi atuo matic and the train passing thru can either throw the points all the way over or if you prefer they can return to where they were after the train has passed the points. That's if the way was closed, if not the train simply passes thru. The action of the points is determined by the placement of the hole in the tie. 

The Key is to OPEN the Spring after it's shaped to fit the holes. Use pliers to open the angle in the middle, then compress the ends with your fingers just enough to insert into tie and throw bar. Being under slight compression is what powers the switch after the wheels move it. 

Yes it is not a new idea and some have made it more complicated with a 270 degree loop where I have a simple bend. The more bend the less stiff the spring, the arms flex. 

Greg: I credit Model Railroader from 40 to 50 years ago. 

Modifying a safety pin is a clever solution to where do I get wire like that? 
I got mine at an Airplane R/C shop, they had a nice selection of diameters. I prefer spring wire for it's dark color. 

The spring is a safety device, when wheels pass over the heel of the points they could move the other end enough to get picked and oh here comes that huge manatee ..... 

My Tucson City reverse loop has a passing siding at the middle of the loop. The siding switches are always positioned one way, the entrance to the loop switch flops over. Two trains, a passenger and a freight. When the passenger leaves the Station it slips through the closed one way sping switch and after the train has passed the switch returns to the way it was before and then the train throws opens the flop over switch as it leaves the loop. The freight train approaches the loop switch and goes in the way the Passenger came out, except at the next switch it goes the way it was set before the passenger train passed through and stops at the freight house. The freight train does a similar dance as it leaves, slipping through a 'closed' switch and then throwing the loop switch for the Passenger train. 
Add that fancy stick and more variations can be added. 
So the spring not only holds the points closed, it can also determine where the points end up after a train has passed. Semi-auto matic as advertised. 

I'm not clever enough for electrical automation, but I can out think a piece of wire 

Happy Rails 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Semper, actually you have more choices. 
1. Line the holes in the center of the tie and the center between the points for a flop over throw. 
2. Move the hole in the tie off center and the spring will hold the points to the opposit side. 

John


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Locks like i am bagging my LGB switch machines and use Johns springs! Was to lacy to run some wires and set them always by hand(or not at all) 

Manfred


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

John, did MR use a safety pin as the source? Was trying to remember. 

Some great tips in the day.... I miss Lynn Wescott! 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Greg, 
Back then machinists were the best source of tips. I'm pretty sure they used black spring steel to hide them on the black Atlas Snap Switches. Over the years I did some in brass, (HO) always the simple shape pictured above. 
I've seen and heard complaints because 'they' failed to open the spring after fitting to the holes. The spring Must be installed under compression so it can push the points to the stock and diverging rails. 

I used the lead truck off my Jupiter and a little bag of lead shot to test the throw. My first springs for this layout were .047" pictured above. Way to stiff for semi auto action. A good snap for simple manual throw, but an excellent derailer from the frog side. 
The .032" with a near 90 degree bend creates a softer action. A straighter shape gets stiffer and may not have the range to push farther over to the side under tension. The .032 is pictured installed. There's a bit of fidling, first bend in the middle and mark ends, throw switch and check clearances on the ties and a gap away from the rail. Make sharp bends with pliers at the ends so it sits down. Now fiddle, stretch open enough for the push and hold. 
Only takes a couple to 'know' for the rest. 

I gotta tell ya, when Chuck's sweet Mallet pushed the points I was proud inside and much relieved! 

The only improvement I need to study is the slide points of aged sunburned plastic under the points. See 2nd pic. There are 2 snippets of thin metal, they allowed less resistence against the flange thus easier action. I'm thinking of slicing off the old plastic and trying teflon inserts or some other repurposed slickem. I saw how rough it was and went to my truck for powdered graphite (door locks) 8 switches were treated, but no staying power, took the bottle back then leaned on a bed wall and pondered. 
Something that I bought for The Manor, came wrapped with a metal binder, the better zip tie. Lying in the bed of my truck with other trash saved from the ground, a shiny flash caught my eye and soon snippets were slipped under the stock rail and points. Not a final solution, but was a quick fix for the day. Some points were improved, some too tight. This concern is only with the semi auto action. Those using the simple switch machine w/ stick need not bother. 

John


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Order online or go to a local Dental Lab,they are using inexpensive 3 prong pliers,makes bending more precise! 

manfred


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the 2 snippets of metal are to conduct power from the stock rails to the points. I have seen corrosion and rust on these myself. I spray them with a marine grade anticorrosion spray. 

Are yours corroded or rough? 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I added the snippets to lessen drag at the point end (see 2nd pic) not those at the heels. There are molded in pads for the points to slide on, I tried the snippets here to smooth the travel.. Mine are sunbaked rough. 
The snippets lifted the points, some needed filing to lower, so I'm thinking inserts of teflon or.... romove pads and replace with glide strips 

The above is solely for semi auto matic operation 

My test truck with lead weights wasn't 100% opening closed points, thus my concern. 
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the great idea John!


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## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

I am not having any luck finding 0.032 (1/32") "spring steel wire". The closest I've found is 1/16" (0.0625) stainless steel rod at a hobby store, which seems to work but is very stiff. This is for outdoor use so needs to be rust proof. I'm also wondering how "spring steel" and other types of small wire/rods will resist rust. Has anybody tried different sizes of aluminum or brass rods? 

Since I haven't found a local source, ANY SUGGESTIONS ABOUT ON THE NET? 

the other Rodney


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I always go to Amazon when I'm trying find unusual stuff...I hate going store to store to find they don't carry what I need. Here's just one of the vendors on Amazon that carry spring steel. 

http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Unp...=1383264949&sr=8-7&keywords=spring+steel+wire


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Look for "Music wire"... .032" is not the smallest size... 

Add a coat of paint..... 

I have used music wire for R/C aircraft for like 20 years or so... 

Dirk


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## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Thanks Mike. Took a quick look at the website on amazon. Looks like my order will need to be for 30 feet of the stuff, but I see there is free shipping for orders of about $35 or more so I'll see if they have any more odds & ends I might want. 30 feet should be enough to last me a century or two! Still cheaper than burning up gas and time looking for something I couldn't find locally. 

I also can experiment with copper electrical wire that I have on hand (#12 or #14) to see if it has the right amount of spring/stiffness.

the other Rodney


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I wonder how well brass wire would work for this? It wouldn't rust, just corrosion on the surface. 
Would thin copper strips work for the slide plates?


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

copper and brass will not work there is no spring to it I have tried it. 

Dick


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like a great idea


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The simple spring wire trick is one of my favorites...I like to call them "flip-flop" switches. 
Most of mine were made from brass coat hanger wire, many of which are about 10 years old.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

You can get plain spring wire from 0.008 up to a stiff 0.026 for guitars in single packets from music stores. Acoustic slide players like a plain 'G' string and use the 0.026 for that. 

Andrew


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Help me out, what does the wire do, other than hold the track in place in either position 
You don't need help - that's precisely what it does. 

You don't need it if your trains always pass through from one of the arms - but going the other way towards the diverging paths you'd better have the points held in place against one rail or the other.


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## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Tried 12 gauge copper wire but Dick was right, not enough stiffness. So I got to thinking - what else did I have laying around? How about barbed wire! Lots and lots of short scraps from building fence. Took a short piece, unraveled it and threw away the strand with the barb on it, was left with 12 1/2 gauge galvanized wire. Just now made up a sample spring using a small vise to help bend. Stiffness is somewhere between #12 copper (bends really easy but doesn't hold it's shape) and 1/16" stainless steel (really hard to bend and really stiff). Looks like it might work OK. This winter I'll be putting together a small indoor (attic) layout and can try it out there. 

the other Rodney 

P.S. There are a lot more farm/ranch supply stores where I live than there are guitar stores.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

LOL ..."the other Rodney".... 
You won't get any where using guitar strings for this..they are only good fer stretching and bang'n on!!!! 

"Music wire" is spring steel rod..... 

I get mine from "Tower Hobbies", online...they have a vast selection... Tower is never far away, fast shipping ...in time for your attic wonderland any way... 


Have fun! 

Dirk


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Y'know guys, I kept this as simple as I could, but when you change the recipe, you takes your chances. 
I got my Spring steel wire (tangent straight) in 4' lengths at a R/C airplane hobby shop, cost a few dollars each size diameter. Think landing gear and control rods that must keep their shape or crash... 24 for a couple of bucks, let 'em rust. 
Google Spring Wire, I bet some hardware stores will carry it too. 

I suppose if you knew and could do the proper tempering techniques you might get barbed wire to behave for some time.... I know the 'straw red color' required to make the wire springy after it's been taken to brittle hard, where a file can't scratch it.... I learned how keeping my engravers sharp. 
But gee that wire is too thick. The wire shown in the pic of them is too thick, but photographed better. 

In a pinch you can cut the tip and catch off a safety pin, but good luck finding a dark one. 

Remember to open the spring so at rest the bent tips are wider than the hole gap. 
This a machine, you supply the energy when you compress the spring to fit, the spring stores the energy until called upon to carry the points over and hold 'em there. 

That's all. 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

In the wisdom of this site they long ago dumped my pics and now they have inserted pics with no business being here...
So this is my high tech spring machine as I learned in Model Railroader a lifetime ago;









As set it holds the same side as a Pass through switch. Moving the leg up to the centered hole makes it a flop over switch. Use the lightest spring wire that will make the throw and hold the points closed.
Start with the hole on the lead in track in the center, hold the points at the mid point for the flop over and center the hole between the points.


Experiment, holes are cheap.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Its a great technique as simple as pie and very useful in certain places, especially if you use the switch blades to direct the curent in the proper direction. it makes for positive locking in of the blades too.
Since my points are polarised by the blades I cannot use spring switches. I have found that the ideal is the Sunset valley levers. For me at least.


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

Totalwrecker said:


> In the wisdom of this site they long ago dumped my pics and now they have inserted pics with no business being here...
> So this is my high tech spring machine as I learned in Model Railroader a lifetime ago;
> 
> 
> ...



I was wondering what was going on with the pics on the OP. Nice of the Admins to screw up a perfectly good Modification post. Re-posting this current pic again, maybe it won't disappear again...

What is the problem with this Forum, are the Admins trying to move everyone over to FarceBook?
Getting more and more postings over at LSC, while this page slowly dies...


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

I like using spring switches for passing sidings. Then I can set one of my manual engines to run around the loop in one direction, and then run a R/C engine in the opposite direction. Make the meets by stopping the R/C engine at the pass sidings before the manual engine gets to the siding and runs right thru. No switches to throw, its all 'automatic'.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Road Ranger.
The man that started the site had to adjust to life and under pressure tried to find a site that would host the site. As it was, it was cobbled from odd programmers and took a knowing hand to keep it functional.
Being an ad driven platform with a disjointed group of technicians, odd changes have happened without anyone knowing how to undo their fiddling ... 



Del at Gscale graphics makes a critter control that will do station stops with gentle stops and acceleration. Don't let the name fool you. Like you I control one and let the other go.


G-Scale Graphics - Home


I'm flattered you re posted my pic.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Totalwrecker said:


> In the wisdom of this site they long ago dumped my pics and now they have inserted pics with no business being here...
> So this is my high tech spring machine as I learned in Model Railroader a lifetime ago;
> 
> 
> ...



I add this example of a Spring Switch, not to antagonize Scott, but to show a working set up.
Regarding light pony trucks, I added lead bird shot until they were heavy enough to throw the points. I also use the lightest spring wire that can move the points over to the rail.
Cleanliness is important.


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