# If you had to start all over again.... (remote control)



## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Now folks, I am not sure if this belongs here but it really didn't fit under one of the catagories in Remote Control (at least from what I could see).

Anyway, for those folks that have tried "one of everything", if you had to start all over from ground zero with your current knowledge, what remote control system would you pick to run your trains and why? Thanks


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

The same one I started with 18 years ago and still use today.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I started with the Aristo 27mhz trackside TE and still use it to this day. 

All engines i have purchased have worked in linear mode (Aristo, Bachmann, LGB, LGB/MTS, USA). Phoenix, sierra and Dallee sound units worked perfectly also. 

I have moved on to Zimo DCC and have installed a switch to select either operating mode. 

SO, a visitor can run most anything on my RR if it will negotiate 8 foot diameter curves.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I still use the 27MHz "Train Engineer" from Aristo. 

If I was starting from scratch today, I'd look to Aristo's Revolution, though Tony from OZ has some cool things. 

With the Revolution out, you might be able to pick up somebody's old Train Engineer's pretty cheap and they work a treat.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I'd have to say I still like the Airwire! But I also like the new Revo, but not as many buttons to play with.
 
The only problem with the AW is the T-1000 speed dial there is no stopping point...wish they would change that, out side of that I like the AW system with the P-5 Phoenix. Real simple to install, program, and use.
 
Revo is easier, I figured it out without instructions...the AirWire I needed instructions.  With the Revo and the plug and play socket make it REAL easy to be up and running in no time without all the wiring of the AW, but AW is still my fav!  
 
IMHO
 
Bubba


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristo 27MHz Train engineer in a battery car is what I started with. It has worked real nicely for me. Easy and affordable. If I were starting today I would probably go with a Revo instead. 

Tom


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to go with Bubba on this, Air Wire and P5. Very easy to hook up.
I have the cheaper A/W so I have the stop on my controller.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

DCC has been excellent for me--I'd stick with DCC


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Aristo 27mhz trackside TE for Analog trains.

NCE for all DCC Trains........


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I spent about 9 years reading forums and studying before I tried anything but analog DC.

Once I wrote down what I wanted to do, and looked what was available:

long trains 
multiple units
run trains for unlimited time
ability to remotely control small locos without trailing cars 

sophisticated remotely controlled sound
sounds tied directly to actual engine load
many options for remote control of accessories
a "foundation" that can expand....

DCC was (and still is) my only option... started there, and still satisfied with my choice 


Greg


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg raises a very good point.....the analysis. What my wants and needs are will not be the same as Greg's or yours. What features is it that you want? How big is the railroad? Long running time? Switching. Sound, special effects......_Budget _And perhaps what my needs were 5 or 10 years ago are not the same today. My RR grew, my motive power changed, my interest changed. So be a little careful by simply counting up what worked the best for you or would you do it over. 

Tom


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

For my specific needs wireless DCC (Massoth) works perfectly--wouldn't change a thing. I like it, my family likes it, and guests like it. Hardware is excellent, software is excellent and easily upgradeable, controller is in my opinion the best blend of functionality and ease of use, and support first class.

Keith


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

My pick is for DCC which BTW I currently use. Also I prefer the NCE system for ease of use.

And reason for choosing

Being able to operate multiple trains at once.

In opposite directions like the real trains

Being able to control sounds independently

Dcc?sound boards all in one

Cheap in price

Controlling of accessory's and


being able to switch in the yard while trains running on the main. 


Since I changed over to DCC my train running times are so much more enjoyable. 


Later RJD


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## post oak and otter lake (Dec 27, 2007)

1] Build it elevated the first time. 
2] Not buying Aristo stainless steel switches with the intention of switching to SS track the month before the price skyrocketed out of my reach. 
3] Convert all my locos to battery/rc sooner 

Roger 
POOL RR 
Caddo Mills, TX


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thread is only about remote control, so I hope it does not turn into a debate over type of track or elevated vs on the ground. I think the results here will be interesting. 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

The same thing I am running now! QSI/G-wire and both T-9000 throttle and the NCE garden wire throttle. Once I did my first install, and heard the sounds, and experienced the control of the system,the ease of installation, cost factor, and the diversity of running multiple trains and experiencing, what I consider to be running trains like or close to real trains, having control of almost everything, I was sold, and remain sold, until something better, more cost effective, and or more enhanced comes along. Only regret is the new board (eventually) coming out from QSI is not adaptable to everything I have and will require a brand new board/decoder, instead of an upgrade of some kind to what we already have!! Oh and that USA has never come with the adapter for QSI, but found a cheap, quick and easey peasey fix for that thanks to Greg E. Regal


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I, too, waited for years before changing over to r/c battery but that was mainly because of price. Once I "bit the bullet" and had my first locomotive r/c'd, I was hooked! I use RCS Elite with Soundtraxx Sierra Digital sound. The range of TX to RX is between 75 and 150 ft. so it works well on my layout. I understand that Cordless Renovations will be coming out with a 2.4 Ghz retro fit to these units. It could be very interesting! Oh yes, I would stay with the RCS unit. It does everything I want it to do and the TX unit is small enough to fit in my pocket and easy enough to use so that I can run one in each hand if I so choose! Oh yes, the "technical assistance" (in this case, from NWRCS) is second to none!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'll echo that the RCS "elite" unit is a good basic R/C system. I used it for years before upgrading to the Revolution, Airwire, and QSI systems. (I've got two RCS units for sale! See the classifieds.) The reason I upgraded was that I wanted the more precise motor control and extra sound functions that the newer systems afford. Of the three systems I use now, I really couldn't pick out a clear "winner." They each have strengths and weaknesses, and I choose which receiver I buy based on the needs of the locomotive. (Are their auxiliary lights that I'll need to control, what sounds do I want, etc.) 

Later, 

K


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

DCC. I liked it so much I converted 3 layouts. 

What KIND of DCC?.... Actually any of the better ones. Digitrax, NCE, Massoth, Zimo, Lenz and others all work well, further, they all work together. The on board gear doesn't have to come from the same source as the fixed plant.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I started with a power pack and 50 FT or cable to drag it aroudn the laytout.. I now have 5 27MHZ aristo Track side mounted in Box cars. and I have 7 Air wire but not using any at this time. I like Ariso for push buttons and emergency stop. I like Air Wire for range. I am not crazzy abut the knob. I am contemplating a different Xmitter for my Air Wire. ( Translated When I get the money I am going to do something different with my air wire and keep the recievers. ) The New River and Western is haveing cash flow problems right now.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I did start all over again. 
After finally disposing of the old Elsema based ELITE series of R/C I used to make for 20 years, I had Del Tapparo write a new program for me that utilises the (very) low cost multi channel 2.4 Ghz stick radios currently now available. 
2.4 Ghz fixes all the range problems 27 MHz had and simplifies the installation, as motor "Noise" suppression is no longer required. 
2.4 Ghz also allows proper Digital Proportional speed control instead of Momentum only, which had to be used to overcome the "Glitching" AM & FM stick radios used to suffer from. 
Users can purchase the level of functionality they wish. From 2 channel for basic speed and direction control, through 4 - 6 channels for added sound triggers right up to 9 or more channels. The more channels, the more functions available.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Wow! What a lot of great feedback. I did start to compile my list of what I wanted and basically I am going DCC. It will probably not hurt to be running an NMRA standard when my railroad becomes part of the 2012 tour!

After reading what you and George S. are running I started looking for a good DCC system. Here is what I found. 

I went to my local *used* hobby store and low and behold he had the following: 


· 1 NCE PH Pro system (524001) 


· 1 NCE ProCab Controller (524010) 


· 1 NCE Power Supply (524215) 


· 1 NCE Expander Jack and cable 


So, I am now off to the races.....I will be setting up my one Bachmann Three Truck Shay that has DCC already built into it to try this out.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sacrilege! Burn the heretic! To settle on DCC after starting an R/C thread!









(Bet you didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition. Nobody does.)


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

DCC is remote control. It just happens to include "track cleaning".


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

It just happens to include "track cleaning". 
Fortunately, if Rich goes with the QSI decoders in the locos, he can later add the G-wire receiver and free himself from tyrany once and for all.  

Later, 

K


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## Trainwreckfilms (Aug 19, 2009)

Im doing it right now. I have sold the Aristo Craft Revo and am going with all Locolinc Systems. Leaving the 27Mhz for track power only as a back up and for visiting locos for my line.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Ok, ok all, I guess I should tell you the reason. I got all of the above for $200. If I want to I can upgrade both cabs to wireless for $190 and add the wireless base for $130. So this way I end up with a dual cab, 5A wireless system for about $500. Sorry, I guess I am just cheap!









Now I already built my track with dual 12GA wiring running underneath with mutliple taps and as I already us standard DC on my layout it should be fairly easy to convert over. I do agree, there are serious advantages to battery. (now let's not start a whole side track on battery vs track vs live steam!).


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Trainwreckfilms on 10 Feb 2011 07:14 PM 
Im doing it right now. I have sold the Aristo Craft Revo and am going with all Locolinc Systems. Leaving the 27Mhz for track power only as a back up and for visiting locos for my line.  
Your trading in 2.4GHZ reliability with a fairly small Tx for a much much older system running on 75MHZ ? I just have to ask ... why?


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## Trainwreckfilms (Aug 19, 2009)

well i didn't like how the 2.4ghz worked on battery... and how it consumed power on my engine. Also how its not friendly with a sierra board. The 27mhz TE has worked fine for me on my railroad as a reliable backup track power wireless throttle. I found that locolinc was very easy to use. ESP for my dad to operate and well i already have one Professionally installed loco from locolinc why not do the same to the rest of the fleet.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Ya know...we gotta be more "plain" to beginners. No one spoke to cost....nor to maintenance issues.

So here's the deal IMHO.

a. Forget 27 MHz systems....like Aristocraft TE. They're not made any more...and their performance was subject to a LOT of controversy (from they totally suck to wow, this is great)...but 10 years ago, they were the only choice. Cleaning the track and multipath issues became favorite subjects for years. Now with the 900 Mhz and 2400 Mhz systems...multipath is NOT an issue. Track cleanliness for DC powered locos remains an issue. 



b. Really consider track powered DCC. The new decoders really handle bad track spots...which were the bane of DCC 10 years ago. 10 years ago, it was an indoor technology only. Signal processing technology has come a long way. There are a LOT of folks that remember those days, and will tell you about sanding track to keep the current flowing. If you intend to have a LOT of engines, this will be your most inexpensive way of "remote control"....cause all you pay for is one decoder per engine...but you're limited to track powered lDCC ayouts if you intend to take your loco to other layouts...and you'll learn about running DCC locos on DC powered track...and all the limitations. Decoders per engine are in the $60 to $140 per engine price or less. $60 gets you an HO decoder that can run small G locos. $140 gets you a decoder that can run a BIG G loco...and provide sound (QSI).


c. Then there's the new Aristocraft system...the Revolution. Well, it's called the Revolution because it reduces the price per engine to the $70 range....least that's what I'm seeing now if you buy em in six packs ($420). Now, it doesn't give you all the bells and whistles of the DCC systems...but it's an 80 percent solution...maybe YOUR 100% solution. You gotta know what you want. It should seriously be considered if you haven't dumped a lotta bucks into another architecture/system. Heck, even me with both an NEC and AW TX and two AW RX's and two QSI rigs...are thinking of dumping them and going with the Revolution. But...the $70 Revo doesn't include the $160 sound board....so you're still in the $230 range per engine.


d. If you want to run your trains anywhere...then battery/RC is your game. They'll run on powered track or unpowered track because the battery is on board. Heck, they're run on your garage floor. And...there's no wires on your layout...least there's no need. There's a real cost tradeoff between wiring a layout and battery/RC...but it ends around 6 engines. Below 6, the battery/RC is less expensive overall. Over 6 engines, DCC is less expensive...no batteries/chargers, no receivers...and the Revolution version (less capability overall) is even cheaper. My typical battery/RC install per engine is $140 for a QSI decoder (sound and motion control), $100 for a Q-wire receiver, $30 for a battery, plus $10 for switching/charging jacks...that's $280 per engine for sound and power.


e. Then there's the "cheap" RC/battery way. This involves a "motor controller", sound board (if you want), and a commercially available RC system (really for RC planes or RC cars). The motor controllers in this set up hook to the RC system's RX....and then to a sound card. So, figure the cost per engine at $100 for the RC systems (TX/RX), plus $100 for the motor controller, plus $160 for good sound (there are $80 sound cards too), plus $30 for batteries and $10 for switching/charging...so you're looking at $320 to $400 per engine....maybe 20% less if you really dig in and work the "system". The downside here is that most of the guys I know have bought a full RC system (TX/RX) for each engine...and that drives up the cost. It's possible to buy just one TX...and a bunch of cheap RXs...and that takes $60 off each system.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Mike, 

Nice summary, thanks!


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

While the type of control has remained constant on our railroad for the past 19 years, and likely will stay the same for the next 19 years, a lot has evolved. While this thread has concentrated on the transmission of the control information from what is in your hand to the locomotive, to me an equal or more important part is the control signal from the locomotive to the motor/ sound/functions. 

On our railroad this has been where the most evolution has occurred. 

There simply is no comparison from what was available in this space in the 90s to what is available today. Announcements in Nuremburg tend to confirm that this evolution will continue as we move forward. So while the control transmission has remained constant the electronics in the locomotives on our railroad had changed considerably over the years. 

Another change that is taking place is characteristics of the device that is in your hand. Expect this to continue to evolve considerably in the coming years. For example this spring some of our operators will use their iPhones to control their trains on our railroad. Myself I like a different control device but that the nice part of this evolution, choice. 

Stan Ames


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

nor to maintenance issues. 
Mike, 

I concur that yours is a nice summary, but what about maintenance? 
(I have to say that my installations have never needed 'maintenance' in the classic sense - only when I decided to change things or upgrade.) 

I do love 2.4Ghz r/c. My live steamers operate much better. But I don't like stick transmitters and I do love Tony's old RCS Elite tx 'cigarette pack' button controllers. Put it in your shirt pocket, as he used to advertize! Can't do that with a stick tx. But the old Elite install was expensive and needed one tx /rx for each loco. 

I don't like the big multi-button DCC tx systems that I see around. Maybe I'm getting old, but the KISS rule still suits me.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The other day, I was standing in my garage. I picked up my NCE wireless throttle from the G scale layout, and walked over to the Z scale layout. I connected a USB cable between my "controller" and my pc in the garage. 

I went to the JMRI web site (10 seconds), downloaded and installed the software (about 2 minutes)... I could then open a throttle on my computer screen to run the trains. 

I took out my iPhone and downloaded and installed Wi Throttle Lite (free, 5 minutes)... I went to the options menu on my computer, selected "Wi Throttle" server, and checked the box.... The software said "I see your iPhone, do you want to use it" (30 seconds total)... 

I said yes, and took my iPhone and selected the loco (by road number on the model) and ran it.. 

So in about 10 minutes, I installed the software and was running my trains from my iPhone never looking at a manual. 

That's progress... 

Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess I'm one of those that DID completely start over about four years. I built my very small layout (150 feet of LGB brass track) in 1985. Power was a LGB Jumbo Pack. After a few years, maintenance of the track and connections and cleaning track everytime I wanted to run, became a "chore" and I lost interest. After many discussions with Paul Burch, he convinced me to go to RC/battery. I went with his recommendation to go to Airwire. I am NOT one who gets along with ANYTHING electrical, so I DON'T do my own installs! I have it done and that definately runs my cost up. I don't have dozens of engines, so for me the cost is not a big deal. I only have two engines. I have a Bachmann Connie and an Accucraft C19. ALL Colorado narrow-gauge. For me, Airwire was the answer. And thank God, no moe track cleaning!!!


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a brief comment about the I Phone connection. 

That it can control DCC is not new. 
Great idea and it does it well, but, unfortunately the I Phone has no "feel" to enable eyes off operation. 
You have to look at and touch the screen to control whatever you are doing. 
Plus, outdoors the screen is hard to read in bright sunshine.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, more of a "fun thing" than a professional throttle, but they do provide audio feedback, you can do a reasonable "eyes off"... 

Pete, you can get a DCC control with just speed, forward/reverse and bell and whistle if you want... (you need numbers to select your loco)











Regards, Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Well if I had to start over, I'd do it the same way. And that is what I also recommend for beginners in this hobby.

Start with basic DC track power and good quality track. I think the control decision should be put off until you have a nice infra-structure in place to run trains. Spend your time laying track, building buildings and bridges. You can buy a couple of locos and have a lot of fun with basic track power while you get all of this accomplished.


Then, IF you are tired of cleaning track or just want more bells and whistles to control, start researching control systems. Personally, I think battery power is the only way to go. It can be simple hands-on controls or R/C, or both. Yes, if you know this is the way you are going to go right up front, you can buy aluminum track and save some money. But, I would rather spend the money on brass because I don't like the looks of aluminum rail, I don't want to paint it, and I don't want to be afraid of stepping on it. What if you buy aluminum track and then want to go DCC? You may have problems ( I am assuming. No DCC experience here).

My point is, there are so many other things to build, buy, and worry about up front in the design and construction phase, that I think adding control systems to the mix can just be a bit overwhelming to some folks.

So which battery powered control system would I choose? I built my own. G-Scale Graphics I've been selling them now for a little over 5 years. They just keep getting better. I am having a blast doing it. My controls have a few features that you just can't find anywhere else using battery power; the flexibility of manual R/C control along with automation. My RailBoss Plus is the first control for large scale trains (that I know of) that incorporates a Lithium battery low warning system.




Enjoy those first years of designing, building, and gardening to get things established. But after that is basically "done", then you can concentrate on running trains the way you want to.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Well said, Del... Much of our hobby is a matter of personal taste and what we're comfortable with. Many things in the hobby has changed over the last 10 years and it will be very interesting to see what happens in the next 10. 

There are mighty fine products out there to choose from and run.


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, please 'splain something to me, Lucy. Because I know doodly-squat about this stuff, I'm asking: does DCC, which everyone seems so hot and bothered over, work off on-board batteries or track power? 

How many loco functions does R/C or DCC provide? I'd need throttle, lights, bell, cylinder blow off (or diesel engine rod knock, ha, ha!), and brake squeal, but maybe I'm missing something--like a cursing engineer, or fllatulent fireman function. 

Personally, track power holds no appeal to me, since it involves cleaning, etc. But most of all--and maybe because this is one of those things I know nothing about--with track power how do you handle a reversing loop without isolating rail and all that--to avoid getting a short when the red rail comes around and becomes the black rail?


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By joe rusz on 11 Feb 2011 06:10 PM 
OK, please 'splain something to me, Lucy. Because I know doodly-squat about this stuff, I'm asking: does DCC, which everyone seems so hot and bothered over, work off on-board batteries or track power? 

How many loco functions does R/C or DCC provide? I'd need throttle, lights, bell, cylinder blow off (or diesel engine rod knock, ha, ha!), and brake squeal, but maybe I'm missing something--like a cursing engineer, or fllatulent fireman function. 

Personally, track power holds no appeal to me, since it involves cleaning, etc. But most of all--and maybe because this is one of those things I know nothing about--with track power how do you handle a reversing loop without isolating rail and all that--to avoid getting a short when the red rail comes around and becomes the black rail? 




To answer your question is DCC track power or battery power, it is both or either.

Air Wire and Q wire are DCC via on board battery. Traditional DCC is track power.

Battery power has some advantages and some disadvantages. Personally I use a hybrid approach. The signal is on the rails and the locomotives automatically switch between on board power or track power when it is available. Stopped cleaning wheels and track years ago yet still use DCC via track power.

Currently DCC supports 28 functions, and I use reverse loop controllers to automatically handle the reverse loops. 

Our layout has evolved many times over the years and continues to evolve. 

Stan


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, you asked for it. Here's the inquisitor's explanation









DCC is a remote control system where a signal is sent through the rails with the power to a "decoder" mounted in the loco that controls the motors, lights, sounds and whatever else anybody has been clever enough to dream up. It's very popular in small scales. The trick is to get a big enough unit to provide enough power to run all the locos you intend to run at once since the track provides power and signal. Also, like any track power setup, you have to be careful that the right rail never meets the left rail or you blow fuses.


To confuse the issue, in the garden we also have "Air Wire." This uses a 900MHz RF link instead of the power on the track to send the signal to the DCC receiver in the train. Air Wire is battery powered not track powered. I've only gotten to play with one of these Air Wire controls once and it's pretty cool, especially is you have the QSI sound board and decoder.


So, DCC lets you run track power and have individual control over each loco. The advantage to running on track power is you don't have to mess with batteries. The advantage to battery power is you don't have to mess with track power, wiring, continuity, reverse loops, solid metal axles, and so on.


*Now, back to the comfy chair with you!*


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom.
Therefore, with hybrid you have to mess with both.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As much as I like DCC, if there needs to be a DCC tutorial thread, or what is better thread, let's have someone start it... 

This is a nice thread with a clear question, which is NOT "what is better".. 

Joe, if you really want to ask what is DCC or what are the differences or what is better for you given your personal needs, I'd love to see a new thread in the DCC forum where all your questions and answers can be focused. Air wire is not strictly DCC, and not fully DCC compliant. It's mostly DCC over the air but there's more to this. 

Regards, Greg


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 11 Feb 2011 08:08 AM 
nor to maintenance issues. 
Mike, 

I concur that yours is a nice summary, but what about maintenance? 
(I have to say that my installations have never needed 'maintenance' in the classic sense - only when I decided to change things or upgrade.) 


Pete....good point...what about maintenance? Ok, here's my two bits.

a. DC powered locos...that means putting straight DC power to the rails. This is real simple until you have reversing loops...but HO guys used this for years till DCC. Outdoors...it's a bitch from all I've heard. It means cleaning the track tops with a wall board sander...and it means checking continuity between track segments. If you use just the track clips that come with the track sections...meaning rail joiners OR the screw thru thingies that come from Aristo....you gotta work on em to keep current running around layout. If you use rail CLAMPS AND you put anti-oxidizing fluid/grease in each one, you'll have continuity a lot longer than with the standard rail joiners....at about $2 per track section. It's not cheap. And then there are the places where you solder the power wires to the rail...you gotta check them too. This, without a doubt, WAS the bane of GRRing 10 years ago.

b. DCC...well, if you use track power, you still have the rail joiner issue to deal with to keep the power flowing, but the newer decoders handle the oxidation on the top of the rails better. Better doesn't mean you don't have to clean the rail tops...it means you do it less often. The new decoders allow the engine to keep working if it passes over a SHORT section of oxidation...but if the DCC signal, and more importantly the track power, can't get to the loco...it stops. And....there's the installation issue. If you get a modern engine with a plug N play capability, the decoder installation is just that...plug it in. If you add sound there's more plugs to deal with.


c. RC/battery...now the maintenance shifts to the engine/battery car. You gotta recharge the batteries. If they're NiCad or Nimh, you can put a plug in the engine/battery car and recharge em while they're inside it. Easy. If they're Li ion or LiPos, you really should take the battery pack OUT of the engine/battery car and put it into a ceramic crock pot or outside your house to recharge it. Lots of folks do not do this, but they're taking a risk. The lithium batteries can burn...big time fire too. But in either case, there's this extra step....charging the battery. And...there's the swapping the battery issue if you run a long time. They do run down like any battery. And, since nobody sells and engine with RC/battery already in it...you got the same installation issues as DCC...cept you gotta find a place for the battery AND a charging plug and switch.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the input but we seem to be getting "off track" here. I have been able to find the pro's and con's of many of the systems but I was just looking to see which way you would go if you had to start all over again. Thanks again.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Easy....I'd go track powered DCC. Now that the decoders handle bad spots...it works real good. And...it's cheap compared to the other ways. Then again...I live in the San Diego area.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By TonyWalsham on 11 Feb 2011 07:08 PM 
Tom.
Therefore, with hybrid you have to mess with both.








Indeed. Never figured out why anybody would want to do that.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By Greg Elmassian on 11 Feb 2011 07:49 PM 
As much as I like DCC, if there needs to be a DCC tutorial thread, or what is better thread, let's have someone start it... 



Make it a page on your site. You're a DCC expert. Better to have a DCC user explain DCC than us RC guys


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tom it IS on my site, as well as FAQ's and lots more stuff there. There's 350 pages on my site. 

Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Here we go again - the track power monster (an urban legend) has come to destroy everybody's fun









When starting all over again, it goes back to the original question:

[*]Tell me more about your layout and your desires[*]Do you want to have point-to-point operations with 1,2,3,4...... stations[*]Shunting operation[*]How many switches[/list] As a general rule DCC of the air is an oxymoron - a nice mark ting ploy by distorting the reality and confusing the issue. Granted RF solutions whose receiver send a command via SUSI to controllers or even might generate a rectengular wave in form of a DCC signal to feed a DCC decoder use the DCC protocol, but they are not a DCC over the air system. Why, because DCC is more than just the ability to remotely control an engine and its function, but it consist of the ability to have situational awareness and the option of taking advantage via computer control. DCC has the functionality to stop trains through asymmetric track segments as part of a train automation capability. Additionally once you have switches involved you are going to go around and deposit little batteries to every single switch drive so that you can start having an action. And how do you throw the switches operation dependant? 

And the irony, in my eyes, these so called Battery Powered "DCC" systems don't require Battery power, you can easily run them over track power too, with the difference to true DCC that the track only carries the Analog Power (DC) and not the command signal which is now generated over the air to little antennas inside the engines (some of them - the brass models - are all metal enclosed).

I'd rather deal with the urban legend, where there is not much difference in required track maintenance to Battery Operated systems. There are methods out there that mitigate the cleaning problem:
[*]Use oxidation free track (NI plated Brass, Stainless Steel)[*]Use good rail clamps that don't bend apart and fully support the rail underneath[*]Use an antioxidant paste in the joints (into the railclmap before it goes onto the track)[*]On large layouts carry a second (10 gauge) disitrbution cable in the trench and refeed every so often into the track. Should a joint have lost conductivity you might not experience any degredation, because there is a re-feed beyond the broken joint. (Technically you wouldn't need to do this and the advantage of not doing it, is the immediate indication thart a joint went bad, which would cost you 2-3 minutes to fix).[/list] Now in terms of handhelds the more visual you can get the better a handheld becomes. I have to say that the new MX32 is very impressive in its flexibility. I love it - just played this weekend with it. 









And what the picture doesn't show is that the display can also display the fnction keys with variable pictorgram assignments for the function type that is on this function key, e.g. Bell, Horn 1, Horn 2, Smoke, Interior lights, Mars Light, red rear light, Mute button. This accomodates various decoder programmings and makes it visible to the user - engine dependant. Of course it is nice that the engines can be represented in graphical form rather just by a CV value and/or its name. The speedometer is cool too.

More to follow.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

And Axel gets pleasant music as well as the comfy chair!

NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Umm... the original question was: 

Now folks, I am not sure if this belongs here but it really didn't fit under one of the catagories in Remote Control (at least from what I could see). 

Anyway, for those folks that have tried "one of everything", if you had to start all over from ground zero with your current knowledge, what remote control system would you pick to run your trains and why? 

Greg 

p.s. Axel, where is my big booster?


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Gee Greg, I got what the thread is about before your first of three posts telling us what the thread is about.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The comment was not for you.. it was for Axel, the post immediately preceding mine. 

The combination of mistakenly stating what the thread was and the post was just a little more commercial than needed prompted my response. 

I'm glad you are not confused CCSII. 

Greg


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