# QST Titan smoke unit testing



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I hope I can keep this thread to just the QSI information. Those of you feeling compelled to talk about other equipment, please go to my old thread that became diluted.

This is a product review, so comparison with other brands is not helpful.

I have a beta unit, but production is underway, and whoever mentioned they are being built in Canada is right, QSI Solutions is in Vermont, so Canada is not far away!

I may have a production unit within a week, we will see.

I do have a board which I will install this weekend to test the high current output for the smoke unit heater.

In my current testing, I was getting up to 0.8 amps draw at 12 volts with a stock USAT smoke unit (the fan driven ones)

The new Titan has an output for the smoke fan that is at least 1/2 amp (I will get the max limit) and a heater output that is in excess of 1 amp, in fact I believe it will handle up to 5 amps.

This means that even the extreme units like the Harbor Models unit (which draws 2 amps) should be controllable.

This weekend I will hook the USAT heater element to the PWM smoke output and get settings to "regulate it down" to various amperages and see what ranges product good smoke.

I'm also going to do this for the AristoCraft unit, although I need to add wires to the Aristo unit to bypass it's electronics..

I'll also post a better video than the one below, and put the smoke through the smoke stack ha ha!

Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg, 

Is the USA smoke unit heating element good for 12V? I thought the fan was 5V and heater element was only 9V?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Good question, we are going to find out! ( I did run it on 23 volts for a short time, it did not burn out!)

I will power the stock USAT board and check what it is supplying (I have 4 of them, so will get good data) 

But, to get this level of smoke, everyone doing it is running the units hard, no question. People will need to make sure they turn the unit off if it runs out of fluid, but of course there is a switch for this on most locos (use it for DC operation) and of course it will be controlled by a function button on DCC. 

By the way, the new Titan supports all NMRA functions, 0 through 28, so you can put the smoke controls on lesser used "buttons"... it depends on your controller also... it's easy to get all 28 on an NCE, but others it is hard or impossible. 

Will be publishing all of this on my site as well, so a "quick setup" for smoke units. 

Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Great, thanks Greg--looking forward to the data. Another question: how does the QSI handle the actual triggering of the smoke maker given it has it's fan at one output and it's heating element at another? For example on your controller say you hit F6 (the one the heater is connected to), does the decoder know to control the fan through the other function output or do you have to set your mapping so the F6 triggers both? 

Thanks 
Keith


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

It looks really promising. Are all the functions going to be adjustable in the quantum manager, like the sounds are now?
I need like 16 of these, any idea on street prices and actual delivery times?

Ron


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks again Greg. I hope it ok to mention that the CVP T5000 is also pretty easy to access all the functions, for the batt guys. 
On another note I see USA Trains smoke units being a popular item once the Titan hits the market. Also, its good to see our neighbors to the north getting some work instead of the Chinese.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, will see if I can tie the fan and heater to a single "enable", I think this is possible. Will add to my list of things to try. They are both effectively "lighting ports" on the lighting processor, a dedicated processor to handle all this stuff. 

But, if not, it's not a big deal, running the fan w/o the heater does not harm anything. 

The thing that will have to be watched is running the heater "hard" and then running out of fluid. 

Yes Ron, everything adjustable... I have not loaded the latest CV manager, but the lighting processor has been in use in the HO products for some time, so it is proven. The news is that it has now been added to the G scale board, and high current outputs added, I think all the lighting outputs are 1/2 amp each except for the heater, which is at least 3. 

Yes, Tony of QSI Solutions told me he uses them for many products, he has the DCC specialties line produced by them. 

I think the production units are imminent, my second unit was shipped today, will be here Friday, and I do believe it will be a production unit. 

I think the street price will be the price advertised on QSI's site for now, like the MAP pricing that Aristo (tried) to enforce. We will see how that goes, but the initial units should be at the MAP for all dealers. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The USA unit is a 9 volt heater and the fan can be pulsed but is only 4 to 5 volts.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

So using the USAT smoke unit, then the circuit board is not used with the QSI unit? I this correct? Later RJD


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Graig,
For the record what brand of smoke fluid are you using?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

RJ, all smoke unit electronics will be bypassed to allow direct control of the fan and the heater... if you look at the video you will see that the wires going directly from the fan and heater going to power, no electronics in between. 

Simple on the USAT unit, since it can be unplugged from the USAT electronics. The Aristo unit will need to have 4 wires connected directly to the heater and fan. 

Paul, I have 3, maybe 4 brands here, but the test video uses Aristo fluid. 

Greg


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## RGS K27-461 (Jan 8, 2008)

Greg, just a quick question, Are you using the QSI programmer or another method to program the decoder? I only ask as I already have a Loco Buffer II, J.M.R.I. & Digitrax (works a treat on my Digitrax Decoders) - do I need to invest in a powerpax and/or the QSI programmer?
I checked your website but couldn't find anything about it....may have missed it though. A very helpful website









Keep the info coming. 

Great job









Thanks

Phil


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just setting CV values like any other DCC system... 

the QSI programmer is required to change sound files/firmware. 

They do supply nice software to customize the sounds and to set the extensive set of CVs... if you have more than a few, then I would buy it. But, if you order the sound you want in the first place, you can do everything else with any DCC system. If you look in the video, you will see an NCE throttle used to program it. 

I do have the programmer to allow me to change sound files, customize bell, horn, whistle, chuff, etc. 

Programmer mentioned on this page: *[url]http://www.elmassian.com/trains/dcc-battery-rc-electronics/dcc/specific-manufacturers/qsi-equipment* [/url]

Greg


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## RGS K27-461 (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll order a programmer as well.









Got a few Locos that need custom sounds. RGS Goose 2, 5 etc.

Thanks again

Phil


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Unfortunately there is no goose file... yet... but I've been harassing the "recordist", he will get one. They have been re-mastering their sound files, which were recorded in much higher resolution than the older hardware could handle. 

The sound file for the New Haven RDC is particularly cool. 

the current programmer hardware will program the new Titan and the existing QSI Quantum 2 units. It has firmware in the dongle (usb one side, and 2 leads to the programming track) The programming software will also check and update the firmware in the programmer hardware if needed.

I've used my old programmer and it works fine on the Titan.

Greg


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## RGS K27-461 (Jan 8, 2008)

Thanks Greg, I'll order one from TTX


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## RGS K27-461 (Jan 8, 2008)

Hi Greg, did the new Titan Decoder arrive?? Was it a production version?? anymore updates???

Excited









Thanks

Phil


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Apparently production, but the units are "customized" with jumpers for Bachmann and Aristo. Mine was customized and sent to me. 

I think we are a week or so away. 

Greg


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## RGS K27-461 (Jan 8, 2008)

Greg, that's great news for everyone








Thanks

Phil


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

"A week or so away?" Where have I heard that before?









Hoping for August


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yeah I know, I hesitate to say, but there were only 2 units, Stan Ames has one and I the other, needed a second one and this one is clearly not built by hand. 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The check is in the mail. Later RJD


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 

Thanks for the review. 

Best, 
TJ


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I got an email from Tony stating they had them boards and were customizing the sounds and wanted to know if I wanted the "latest greatest." or a board equivalent to what I ordered. Obviously the latest greatest cost more, but I knew that tracking the latest info on the board. 

I only add this to confirm that the boards are very, very close.


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

Jake, I also got the e-mail from Tony regarding if I wanted to upgrade to the Titan (think it was an additional $50, if I remember correctly) to replace a fried earlier Large-Scale QSI decoder (removed from my Bachmann 2-6-6-2T Mallet, which has been out of service nearly a year since the decoder fried!







). Called Tony the day after I received the e-mail & told him I wanted to go for the new Titan decoder (hopefully it will be a bit more durable!







). I temporarily rewired the Mallet for straight DC operation (motors *only, *no lights or smoke unit) & "ran the pants off it"







for about *3 hours straight *a couple of months ago while monitoring the current drain of the motors while pulling a typical "tonnage" train for it (a 7-car consist of mixed Accucraft & Bachmann Spectrum 1:20.3 rolling stock). Rather than using a modern DVM (I have several), I used an old reliable *analog Simpson 260 Volt-Ohmmeter *







to monitor the current consumption; the idea being that the analog meter made it easier to watch for any potential current-drain "spikes" as the train ran up & down my 3% mainline grade. I was seeing typical current draws of @ *4.5 amps upgrade, 3.5 amps downgrade; *hopefully the new decoder should be able to handle that without difficulty.

Diverging a bit from the thread, here's a bit of useful info I'd like to pass along. Using the old analog Simpson VOM turned out to be useful in another regard; on one of my curved passing sidings, I had been having problems with my Bachmann 3-Truck Shay (with the factory-installed "Quasinimi"







sound decoder) *jerking intermittently *







, with the headlight flashing indicating a decoder error.







When I ran the Mallet on DC power over that *same siding, *I noticed that although the Mallet continued to run smoothly (the Mallet motors are *flywheel-equipped), *the Simpson's meter needle *flickered erratically *







, indicating that I most likely had a *high resistance in one or more rail joints *







on that siding. (The power feeder for that particular siding was at the *far end *from where both locos normally entered it (although I've never used the capability, I built the "Watuppa Railway" with *insulated blocks with individual power feeders, *as would be done on a *conventional DC "blocked" analog layout). *Shortly afterwards, starting from the power feed point, I pulled up about 1/2 of the track sections on that siding (Aristo brass track), cleaned the rail joiners & ends with a motor-driven wire brush, & reassembled them with fresh LGB conductive paste. Now although the Bachmann 3-Truck Shay still "misbehaves"







over the remaining portion of the siding that I haven't re-done the joints on, as soon it as it hits the first section of track that had it's joints cleaned, *it settles down & runs normally. *







I intend to re-do the remaining joints on that siding as soon as I get *"a round tuit"! *









Back to the QSI Titan - Greg, out of curiosity, have you played at all with one new feature the Titan is advertised as having - adding "dirty track" protection by adding Lenz capacitor banks or backup batteries? Also, how large is that new smoke unit? The original smoke units in both my Mallet & the 3-Truck Shays have burned out, might consider the QSI unit as a replacement.
















Tom


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The "standard" QSI Titan will handle 6 amps. There will be a 12 amp version. 

If there are no further issues, we should see shipments to dealers start next week. 

I'm finishing up my testing and have been very happy about the low speed performance improvement and the ability to have the BEMF system handle 2 and 4 motor locos. 

I have not found that a larger capacitor than what is on the stock board has been needed (there is one there already)... but you CAN add one if you want. 

That is not a QSI smoke unit, it is a USA Trains one... the big news is the ability to modulate the fan in sync with the chuffs, and to set the power level to the heater in ANY smoke unit. You can use USAT, Aristo (simple mod), MTH, and others. 

The smoke units you mention are not fan driven I believe. 

Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, more progress.

Basically I have figured out why I was not controlling the fan as I wanted. It turns out that some parameters have changed from the original QSI Revolution. These are documented in the QSI documentation, but their settings needed a bit more looking at.

How the fan works, background for the curious:

QSI has used the "firebox flicker" feature that would normally go to an LED to run the fan.
The flicker has 2 components, and several CV's to "tune" it to your liking.
One component is a brightening (increase in fan speed) during a chuff. The other component is a random brightening simulating a fire.
By clever settings, the random component is turned off, and only the chuff is affecting the fan speed.
By setting the "ramp up" and "ramp down" settings, and max speed/brightness, you can make the fan follow the chuffs very well, and you can tune the chuff smoke volume.

Settings:
I have all the settings detailed on my web page:
*http://www.elmassian.com...trong>** 

And rather than duplicate all the writing, I ask you go there. Also you will want to set the chuff rate to your liking. This involves setting the scale wheel diameter, and then the "gear ratio" between the motor rpm and the final drive.

Sounds like a bit of a bother to do two settings, but after you do this, the scale miles per hour and the scale "odometer' are also set, and there's a lot of benefit to know how many scale miles your loco has run, for maintenance, etc.

I have the exact settings for an Aristo Consolidation, you can email me or start a new thread if you want to do this for another loco. 

At this time, you will have 4 chuffs per driver revolution (you can tell it to do 2 also if you want).

Now all you have to do is hook up the smoke fan to the correct pins, and the heater to the right voltage.

I'm still experimenting on the heater voltage, but so far, the Aristo and USAT smoke units are fine with the fan settings and voltage.

Smoke units:

The USAT smoke units are simple, because they have separate wires for the fan and heater already:









Just unplug the 2 connectors from the small board and connect to the QSI.

The Aristo unit needs modification, since the electronics are integral with the wiring for the fan and heater.

I have directions on my site, you have to cut 3 traces and add 4 wires.










Again, see my site for complete information.

Heater setup:

Right now, I am testing "reasonable" voltages to drive the heaters. I get great smoke at 12 volts, but I want to do long term testing to see if this is too much. I think the USAT units will be more rugged, but the Aristo ones seem to have a larger reservoir.

The Aristo unit draws close to an amp at 12 volts, which means a hefty regulator with a heat sink... the standard 1 amp regulators will not cut it.

More to come...

Greg*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Important finding I am posting in every QSI thread: 

You MUST have a motor connected to the Titan when programming. The original QSI did not require this. The Titan does. Just spent quite a few hours with someone who used his existing bench programming setup that did not include a motor connected. 

Greg


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