# Subway legend dies at 50



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/29/arts/design/29martin.html?_r=1&hpw


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

On June 17... how about the off topic forum next time for a graffiti artist on the NY subway? 

Greg


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

We have an OFF TOPIC Forum?[/b]


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm wondering what's with people my age kicking off


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Forum police aside, the grafitti movement has relevance for our hobby, recognized by MTH, which has decorated some of their cars and evidence by the fact of grafitti spreading from Subways to trains worldwide (even saw some in Switzerland) 

photos documenting the movement: 

http://modeltrainjournal.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4589&hilit=May+1972 

There's a subway fan who actually documented the exact month it all started, May 1972. Some of the artists, featured on Wiki, who may have started the movement are Taki 183 or Tracy 168. Probably the latter, king of wildstyle. Stay High 149 might be close. 

I grew up in the Bronx in the late 50s and 60s so didn't see the rise of the movement, which I personally dislike (with the possible exception of some of the truly great artists) 

Here's further documentation from Wiki: 

"Hip hop is a cultural movement which developed in New York City in the early 1970s primarily among African Americans and Latin Americans[1][2]. Hip hop's four main elements are MCing (often called rapping), DJing, graffiti writing, and breakdancing. Other elements include beatboxing, hip hop fashion, and slang. Since first emerging in the Bronx, the lifestyle of hip hop culture has spread around the world.[3] 

When hip hop music began to emerge, it was based around disc jockeys who created rhythmic beats by looping breaks (small portions of songs emphasizing a percussive pattern) on two turntables. This was later accompanied by "rapping" (a rhythmic style of chanting). An original form of dancing, and particular styles of dress, arose among followers of this new music. These elements experienced considerable refinement and development over the course of the history of the culture. 

The relationship between graffiti and hip hop culture arises from the appearance of new and increasingly elaborate and pervasive forms of the practice in areas where other elements of hip hop were evolving as art forms, with a heavy overlap between those who wrote graffiti and those who practiced other elements of the culture. Beatboxing is a vocal technique mainly used to imitate percussive elements of the music and various technical effects of hip hop DJs." 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop_culture


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The "forum police" comment is unnecessary. Name calling is against forum rules. 

Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

The relationship between graffiti and hip hop culture arises from the appearance of new and increasingly elaborate and pervasive forms of the practice in areas where other elements of hip hop were evolving as art forms, with a heavy overlap between those who wrote graffiti and those who practiced other elements of the culture.
Personally, I don't consider it "art" but then again, I don't consider quite a bit that passes for "art" these days worthy of the title. I also don't quite get why private property one does not own should be considered one's canvas for "free expression." I have a different word for it... "vandalism." I really dislike every train I see being covered with it. Just mho.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 06/30/2009 11:26 AM
The relationship between graffiti and hip hop culture arises from the appearance of new and increasingly elaborate and pervasive forms of the practice in areas where other elements of hip hop were evolving as art forms, with a heavy overlap between those who wrote graffiti and those who practiced other elements of the culture.
Personally, I don't consider it "art" but then again, I don't consider quite a bit that passes for "art" these days worthy of the title. I also don't quite get why private property one does not own should be considered one's canvas for "free expression." I have a different word for it... "vandalism." I really dislike every train I see being covered with it. Just mho.


I subscribe to the Red Green theory of art, "If I can do it, it ain't art." (Which is why I find so much of the work of shown here on MLS to be "art").


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## Jim Francis (Dec 29, 2007)

Dwight,

I concur in every respect! It is vandalism, pure and simple!

It shows no respect for the property of others.

In our little town we report it, remove it, and if the police are lucky arrest the "taggers".

I find this whole thing distasteful.

Jim


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

*You might think.....How would you like it put on your nice new car or on the side your your home. There is a place for that art. Some are covering the road name and Frt. car nbrs. and shipments can be detained or lost... Some paintings really nice art but ....not on personal or privet property../b]*


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the title "Subway criminal dies at 50" rather than "legend".


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

A few years ago London Underground (now TfL) was plagued by someone signing himself as TOX. He was eventually arrested but until he was he cost the transport undertaking (and more directly those who paid fares to travel on the trains) mega bucks.

His work was not confined to rolling stock but included structures and the railway infrastructure in general. Incidentally some areas were not easily accessed. Whatever you think of the merits, or otherwise, of graffiti it is the substantial costs involved in removal of it that makes it such a public nuisance.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Was this guy under contract obligation by NYC to paint their subway cars?? If not, it's vandalism, a crime punishable under law.


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