# Philosophy - To Gut or Not To Gut



## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I will be converting all of my Bachmann engines to RC/battery and have no intention of ever running again with track power. These are mostly the older, non-DCC ready, ones that I bought as the infamous "New Old Stock" from Ebay and Craig's List. Its the usual suspects: 2-Truck Shay, Heisler, Climax and rail bus.


I am leaning towards removing all of their existing electronics and rail pick-up contact mechanisms. I also doubt that I will ever have any engine sounds beyond a possible bell and whistle.


So what are others doing? I would appreciate hearing your experiences and opinions.


Thanks, Mark


p.s. Not that it should make much difference, but this is for indoor operation.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I would gut them.. 
remove everything, and wire up the motors and lights from scratch.. 
remove all track pickups..IMO, thats the best way to go for your situation. 

but people might think: "but what if you want to sell them? shouldnt you keep the track pickups in that case?" 
my answer would be..No, because im not going to sell them!  

I say, do what works best for you.. 

Scot


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## Tom Hite (Dec 27, 2007)

I would also gut it. I just bought the LGB Genny and rather than try and figure it out I am going to gut it. I am going to lay the whole circuit out on the bench and test it first before installing it. This way if I have a smoke show It will be easy to replace the bad part. If it were all together it would just complicate matters. Then once everything works the way I want it to it is just a matter of assembly.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

I,m a diesel fiend. Gutted a couple, then along came AirWire drop-in. No need for gutting now. However, with no drop in,s available for the loco,s you have, Gut em.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

It does depend a bit on what the actual loco(s) are being converted but in general, I do not gut, even older non PnP locos 
Unless you particularly want to have individual lights etc controlled from the ESC, I leave the wiring intact and use the constant traction battery voltage fed through a small relay to control the polarity of the loco wiring. The relay coil is controlled by one of the lighting ouputs. Much easier to do than rewiring.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm a rather notorious gutter.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are handy with an ohmmeter, and won't ever sell them, then do whatever you want. 

In my case, I review each loco separately. If all the connections are easy to get to, and space is not a problem, why rip things out. 

But if it has weird electronics or space is at a premium, then remove it. 

gutting it just to gut it could be wasted energy, or maybe removing some wiring you may have to replace. 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I gut the engines I work on as I wire up lights for individual control. 
The Zimo decoders I use can control the engineer light, ditch lights, marker lights separately. And with motorized pantographs more control can be added. An engine can be parked with both pantos down.


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## apo234 (Aug 14, 2013)

I use the aristocraft revolution and I gut USA trains locos because its easier that way... but newer engines with the sockets i leave in and re wire the way i want... i like separate control of the headlight and ditch lights and other lights


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

For the early Bachmann locos (back when the wiring was simple) I generally remove the rail contacts, at least. On some, I've completely gutted things--usually because I'm doing a major renovation of the loco anyway. Others--if the boards aren't in the way--I leave them in place and feed the main board with power from the battery. That way when I turn the power on, I can see the cab light (if equipped) and firebox to know things are getting power. If it's an "early" locomotive (pre-electric headlight) I'll keep the headlight wired to this as well, so it's always on when the locomotive has power. Otherwise, I'll wire the headlight separately so it's either directional or at least I can turn it on and off via a function button on the controller. 

With the newer (socket-equipped) locos, I leave the electronics in place. The socket makes it easy to install either the QSI Titan or Aristo Revolution decoders that I use and be off and running without much trouble. (I usually have to make a jumper to get power to the lights with the Revolution.) 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I know this is not a DCC forum, but one example stands out in my mind, converting a loco to use track power and a decoder, you MUST separate the track pickups from the motor connections. 

We did a conversion of a Bachmann Connie and had all kinds of issues, even though a wiring diagram was supplied. 

Somewhere hidden inside the loco was a cross connection between one track pickup and one motor lead. So on track power DC everything was fine, but the DCC conversion went nuts. This is where I learned to double check even the "obvious" with an ohmmeter to be sure that the wires I was dealing with were actually connected (only) to what I thought they were. 

Over the years, there have been these kinds of issues, in some production runs... I've encountered it in Bachmann and Aristo and AML locomotives, so some people espouse "gutting" to make "absolutely sure"... 

Regards, Greg


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks to all that replied. It pretty well confirms my planned approach of gutting most all of the "superfluous" electronics and wiring. Given their age, and mine, I doubt that I'd ever attempt to resell them. And if I did, I'll have at least saved all of the guts and let the purchaser deal with it.


As we say in my business (and probably others) "No guts, no glory!"
Thanks again.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I wouldn't worry about selling or buying a gutted loco. A fine running model is a fine running model whether it has the original electronics or not. 


So what did the bug say after he attacked your windshield? "I'd do it again if I had the guts."


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I disagree, if you remove a plug and play socket from an Aristo loco, it will reduce it's value, with the success of the Revo and QSI. 

Greg


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## Tom Hite (Dec 27, 2007)

It boils down to what someone want's, if it is gutted and has the system you want then it is worth more to you then someone else.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Gut them. Leave flicker boards and lights...altho I replace the usual wimpy yellow LEDs with 14V GOR bulbs. 
I rip the Ames Super Sockets out of all of mine. Back when I did this, customers demanded the Ames Super Sockets come out, and I have a box full of the stupid things. 
Once you remove them, you can easily fit all your batteries and electronics in a Meyer, a bit more work on a Forney. K's.....I balance my batteries side to side, putting a brick in the back is deadly stupid. 
Throws the balance off and lifts the nose of the tender when backing a train. 
There was no reason for those things, other than possibly ego. Every manufacturer of aftermarket equipment, sound, r/c, even dcc I talked to 9at the request of the nmra) said screw terminals, full stop, yet someone looked for "consensus" and seemed to control the input to gain the desired output. 
I rip the optics out, use magnets and reed switches. 
My avatar is a dinosaur for a reason. 
TOC


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