# NCE Setup help Question



## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok I have moved to the DCC world and purchased a NCE DCC system from Mike Kidman at Marty's. I'm home now trying to setup the system on a test/program track and have one small question. It shows in the setup directions forking the wire on the input plugs from the transformer. I'm using braided 14 guage wire and the plugs are not really big enough to put two wires in each port. I need to do that to get power to the control unit. So here is the question, can I put the leads from the transformer in one port each and the leads to the control unit in the other port that the directions show being for the other half of the fork for each power lead? will this work or will it cause problems/damage? HELP!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Congrats--I recently did the same thing and I really love it. It's very easy to use, the NCE handheld is extremely convenient and well thought out. It's run flawlessly for me so far. Did you get the 10 amp system? 

I'm having a hard time understanding your question, but I aslo found their diagram a little confusing. 

I have the 10 amp rig. Using stranded wire, I ran one set of two wires from the transformer to the base station, and one set of two wires to the booster. That is, the transformer has four wires coming out or it. I forked the strands on each plus and minus wire, twisted each "tine" of each fork tight, and sent one set of plus/minus to the booster, and one to the base station. They worked just fine inserted into the terminal block. So all four holes in the terminal blocks are filled, but there are only two wires going to each 

Hope this helps


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks... I think I understand what you said...  It sounds like you did the same thing I did.... There's the terminal block that has four plugs where you are supposed to insert the lines from the tramsformer, two for plus and two for minus. I inserted on plus and one minus from the tramsformer and then one plus and one minus from the box that the control cab plugs into. The way that I read the instruction diagram is that you are supposed to fork both the plus and the minus lines to each of the two plugs for plus and minus and attach the line to the control cab somewhere before the fork. that is where my question came from, can I forgo that and do what I did and have it work fine/safely?

For what it is worth, here is a rough drawing of what I have done.....


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not saying yours is wrong, you might have a newer model than mine, but this wouldn't work for my NCE system. 

What I have is on page 5 of this manual:  Basic Set Up 

Also, pay special attention to the "Fork" of the leads in the exploded diagram. Every lead is forked on the PB110 - Power Booster. In your diagram you don't have leads coming from the transformer to the Command Station, and it looks like the power leads going to the Power Booster, one of them is wrong. Slots 1 & 2 should get the power, 3 & 4 go to the track. I only see your wires for the "programming" track on the command station. This is a low voltage connection for programming decoders. The wires coming from the power booster are to go to the track you are running your trains on.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a power supply/transformer with screw terminals, and I just but two wires on the plus terminal and two on the minus, and then ran one plus to the booster and one plus to the command station, one minus to the booster and one minus to the command station. So both are getting power directly from the transformer. But each has the wires forked. Like this:













The booster and the command station communicate with each other over the bus--there's no need to share jumper the power like that. According to Greg, the forking is just so that none of the pins on the terminal plock handle too much current.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are running lots of power, I would go with Mike's diagram. Trying to run all the current into the booster with just 2 pins has overloaded my connector, and I'm changing to the diagram he has. Those small connectors don't handle quite enough current per pin to just input it on one pin in my opinion. I've run some heavy loads, and the heat has relaxed the spring tension somewhat. 

Regards, Greg


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

thanks for all the input... I have changed the wiring to the forked method.... I did also move the power out from the program track pins to the ones that are marked "to Track". this gave me more indication that I was getting power to my loco however I still must have something wired wrong or else my loco had problems I wasn't aware of before..... When I turned on the power and ramped up the throttle the sound started and then there was a pop and smoke started rolling out of the middle of the boiler.... NOT GOOD! I think at this point I have burnt the motor and one of the capacitors on the control board that runs the lights and smoke unit.... This is a Bachmann C-16 outside frame engine too so it is a nice and expensive unit. I will be looking for parts or someone to repair it for me shortly.....


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yikes! 

But now I'm confused--Bachmann doesn't make a C-16 in large scale. Did you mean an Aristo C-16? If it's an aristo, it could be a problem with having the track/battery switch set to "battery." Maybe. 

Also what decoder did you have in the loco? It's hard for me to see how you could smoke a decoder if it was installed properly 


Sorry to hear about your trouble. Hang in there--once you have it running you'll love it


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A note about Bachmann, many of the "DCC ready" locos like the Annie and the Connie have a connection buried inside the loco between the wheels and the motor, which will destroy any decoder, NCE, QSI, TE. 

If you get the schematic, you can see it, but it's tough to see it unless someone points it out. 

As always, always use a meter to verify no connection between the wheels and the motor. 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The Aristo C-16 is NOT outside framed so it's back to a Bachmann of another name....


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

ok...wrong name... it is a bachmann outside frame Connie.... Claims to be dcc ready but had to do an aweful lot of work to get the decoder installed... Using a QSI sound/dcc decoder installed in the tender. Don't beleive that has been damaged at all just the loco itself....


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Very sorry to hear that.

I've tried plug and play in three aristo locos. In two of them it worked, but the polarity was different on each. One of them was just a mess and never worked right and I ended up pulling it out and wiring everything directly. It's hard for me to understand why these things don't work better--you can buy a disposable cell phone for 10 bucks that's WAY more complicated than a plug and play socket


Hope you get it sorted out soon


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I put the wiring diagrams on my site just now.


I have a writeup on a DCC conversion there. Looking at my stuff, I see I gave some wrong information, you can disconnect the motor from the main board completely. 


It was the Annie that had a sneak connection inside the loco body. Definitely check for complete isolation. 


See if my site is helpful:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...cc_install* 



Regards, Greg 









*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...ve-power-mainmenu-73/connie-2-8-0#dcc_install*


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg. The original problem I faced/caused was that we burnt one of the black block capacitors on that smoke box board. The only thing we could figure at the time was that it controlled the lights so we by passed the board and ran the leads for the lights directly to the QSI controller in the tender. This didn't help anything but it also didn't hurt either as everything that worked at the beginning still worked, that is until the most recent loss of smoke....  Your instructions and pictures look like that may help a lot! Thanks again.


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, I sent you an email but haven't heard back... I have recently burnt out one of the capacitors on the small pcb board on top of the motor. I have been told by others that I can pull this board attach the wires directly to the motor points. Is this true? I am at the point where I can start rebuilding the loco if it is. so I just want to verify that I can do this.... thanks.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry, somewhat swamped. Yes, go right to the motor terminals. Early DCC systems hated the noise capacitors, modern ones pretty well ignore them, but I have heard they can fail in normal usage. Get them out of the circuit. 

By the way, I would give some thought of how the capacitor got burnt out.... that is a little troubling... if you know why and it won't happen again, then not troubling. 

Regards, Greg


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, Do you have a phone number I call you and talk through some of this with you? If not, no problem but just concerned and don't really want to cause more work and damage if I can avoid it.... No I am not sure what caused the capacitor on the front board to go out all we did there was touch power to the drive wheels and it smoked. the one on the motor board smoked when I turned on my transformer and powered up the throttle... so not really sure there either I guess....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

According to several of my friends, these caps can blow up on their own sometimes. 

Just bypass them, or remove them so you are connecting directly to the motor. 

I did not mean to alarm you! 

Regards, Greg


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

well here's the latest update... just finished putting everything back together. Added a line from the front of the boiler like Greg's website shows for the connie mods and ran it to the motor + and - on the DCC controller in the tender. direct connected the front and rear lights to the controller as well. removed the PCB board on the motor (I had burnt out the capacitors on that one anyway... ).... 

Got everything all back together, put it on my test bed track, turned on the power supply and ran up the throttle and got NOTHING!!!  no sound, no lights, no motor action.... Not sure what to do at this point. May have to pull it all a part again and check things out all over again.....


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Scott, was the last test on a DC track.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

might have had dc mode off... 

Scott email me again, will send you my phone number... 

It is probably something simple.. 

Greg


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

the last test was on the same track that I was on when I blew the capacitors on the motor. Still have everything (the NCE DCC system) hooked up just the way it was a couple of weeks ago so I know that all of that works. At least it did and I have all the lights on the NCE system when I power up the transformer. Run up the throttle on loco #3 and nothing happens....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I replied by email, but for benefit of other readers: 

0. Always check that there is no connection between either track pickup wire and the motor. make sure the motor is connected to nothing else. 
1. Unless someone has messed with the default programming, QSI has DC mode enabled, test on DC mode with just the track pickups and the speaker connected... 
2. If that works, then add the motor. 

If this fails at step 1, then you either have a very basic wiring issue, or the decoder is not set for DC or you have a damaged decoder. 

The speaker is the best test that the system is live, since it will go through a startup routine. 

Sometimes a QSI slips by a dealer who orders them unprogrammed and forgets to program one... rare but has happened. 

You can also put it on a programming track and see if it responds. 

Regards, Greg


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,
Thanks for all your help and encouragement. After thinking about it and getting a little nerve..  I got home and pulled apart the tender (which is where the controller is located) and found that a couple of the wires had come disconnected from the controller. Once I reconnected them I put JUST the tender on the test track and powered up the transformer and had sound!! Then I attached the loco to the tender and powered up the transformer again and had sound and drive action.... Still no lights even when I turn on the light function on the throttle but I'm thinking that the lights are burnt out.... So the only question that I have now is how can I get at the bulbs to replace them? So... once again thank you for your help and now you don't need to worry about calling me tomorrow...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They should be LEDS, you could just have them connected backwards, try reversing the wires, and remember that one wire goes to the common/plus connector, and the other to the HL or RL terminal. 

The LEDS have resistors in line with them, make sure you did not remove them, because without the resistors they will burn out immediately. 

Reference the wiring diagram on my site... 

I think you will find after reversing the wires and making sure you have the proper connections they will work. 

Regards, Greg


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks greg.... I will try that but I have a feeling that they were out when I first got the loco and ran it DC.... We'll see.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... weird, because LEDs rarely go out unless connected improperly (no current limiting resistor). 

Keep us informed, you are on the home stretch! 

Greg


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks to all of your encouragement I now have my first loco rebuilt with DCC! I finally got everything back together and wired together and tried it out and I now have sound, lights and motive power!! lights work both forward and reverse! Now I can move on to my 36T two truck Shay.... Thanks again!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great, same drill, isolate track pickups, motor, lights, test with multimeter, make sure dropping resistor for lights if they are not 18v bulbs, and away you go... 

I miss my shay... 

Regards, Greg


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