# Aml gp60?????



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I haven't heard a word on these for several months. Anyone have any solid information?
The Accucraft AML website is no help. It sure seems like if they wanted to get these to market it would have been done by now.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Guess they don't think much of our hobby spending policies..
Not .. " aligned " with their profit margin...

I think all is on hold... for the count!!
. ( if ya know what I mean.. )
Like them hi-cubes..delayed. till next year... ???

We'll see......


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

They are hoping this year but... 
My guess is it will not be till next year.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

probably will become another white elephant like the Aristocraft SD9 project that never came to bear fruit. Mike


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

That failed SD9 project from Aristo has to be my biggest disappointment since entering large scale in 1995. I sure hope this isn't headed the same way. Some honesty from Accucraft with a statement on their website about where it stands would be nice. Maybe they are looking at what has been reserved with retailers and are not where they want to be? I do have one reserved but won't commit to another one or two until i get one in my hands to see how it looks and performs. I would have been good for four of the Aristo SD9's right from the start because it would have been running on their existing motor block and sideframes from their SD45, a prove product. In Accucrafts case with the GP60 it iwould be a new product design, thats why I only reserved one. Accucraft has to understand that. Put out a good runner and it will sell.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I agree Paul, At the time those were announced, the HO scale club I was a member of used SD9's as thier primary coal hauling power and I wanted to do a large scale version, still do in fact. So that was a huge disappointment for me as well. Lewis and Nat blew it on that one. I agree a truthful full disclosure on where AML/Accucraft stands on the GP60 project needs to be made. If moving forward, a firm date they will be "on the water" would be a start since we know getting thru customs ect can take time. But atleast if we know they are on the way, we can relax and prepare to spend some hard earned money. I know I want one of the NS versions myself. I worked for the NS at one time, and those were the main power on Tripple Crown Roadrailers. I want one for a mantle piece. Mike


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Larges scale MFG's need to start looking into a "kickstarter" type of funding for their projects so they can get products off the planning desk. I'm sure plenty of us would buy in if we had input to roadnames, basic quality/ detail and type of product. You deposit early and you get lowest price, the more deposits come and your price drops buy % of the lower mfg volume savings.
The problem I see with Accucraft is that they do opposite. High list price at announcement, then they discount at the end of the product cycle. So, We all wait for the close out deal. Bad business "model" in my opinion, What say you?


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Exactly, just as I have seen wishes for bearings on the axles of the GP60, quality motors in the trucks ect. Although they are covering pretty much all the bases road name wise on this model of locomotive. Not many shortlines can handle the axle loading weight of this unit. Which for those that dont know, packs as much HP as a SD40-2 in a 4 axle unit. On Roadrailers they were very fast up to road speed, but rough riding and very slippery on heavy loaded freights. Mike


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

To include a plug and play socket has been firmed up. No new information on a release date.


----------



## Mark Thomas (Jan 2, 2008)

Does Accucraft / AML Attend any shows or events where we can ask? I know I pinged via email....no response.
-Mark


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They do, they keep promising and the date keeps getting pushed back. If you ask in person you will get the answers you see posted here.

Greg


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark Thomas said:


> Does Accucraft / AML Attend any shows or events where we can ask? I know I pinged via email....no response.
> -Mark


All the time - but mostly live steam venues. Robert (Mktg Mgr) was at Diamondhead with the Co Pres, Bing.
I would ask Jason at The Train Dept (www.thetraindepartment.com). He has frequent conversations with them. Or lean on the dealer that you ordered it from. Or call the west coast office. Or email Cliff.

Just remember to ask nicely ;-)


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Fred was at York, someone will be in Denver. But don't look for a firm date yet.


----------



## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Personally I think Accucraft has too many projects on the burners and thus having to juggle timelines. Also my distinct impression is that 1:29 seems to be a low priority for some reason with them. The Hudson got pushed back and nothing new in the 1:29 live steam front. I see mostly 1:32 with a bit of 1:20.3 in American style locomotives coming from them. 

Overall though my feeling is it will come just not this year. Best guess probably about the time the Heisler makes it - sometime 2016.

I get email responses back when I make an inquiry and they all seem to be nice folks but overall it is still a small business. I do know that they have said they have discussed (not even on the consideration list yet) 1:20.3 6500 series flats and even the Silver Vista but have so many projects for the American, Australian and European market that they are a bit overextended.


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Esppe Pete said:


> Larges scale MFG's need to start looking into a "kickstarter" type of funding for their projects so they can get products off the planning desk....


I like the kickstarter idea for a helping out a new G scale product...even more so if the manufacturing was done in the United States! That said, I think this model works best for a new startup biz, but I like where you're going with this nonetheless.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Maybe its time for them to stop announcing more new stuff in any scale till they deliver whats been advertised in the modeling press. Or quite hyping product that is no where near even an engineering sample in the modeling press. Good way to Not get preorders as some folks are going to move on to something else once dates start getting constantly pushed back, or just sit back and IF it gets made then they will purchase. Not the best business model. A fresh 4 axle diesel would most likely sell well right now with nothing new from USA and the loss of the GP40 from Aristo from the market. I am hoping we see the GP60 for Christmas 2015, but not gonna hold my breath. Mike


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

There is a chance they could be here by year end.


----------



## Peter Eaton (Mar 11, 2015)

*Gp-60*

Talked with an AML rep at the ECLSTS and he indicated the GP-60 won't be here until Christmas and the Gunderson 50' box next year. The Vermont Railway System had two, one marked for VTR the other marked for GMRC. They were too slippery for the Vermont hills and were traded back for GP-38 or 40's as I understand it. Peter


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

When I worked for NS in 1998, they were in the process of lengthing how long a Roadrailer was allowed to be. The early trailers had air bag suspension for the rail bogie, and it was inflated with the air in the train air line. To much use of the horn, or air brakes could result in a deflated air bag. This also limited overall train length. Back then all you saw was GP60's on them. The trains were light and they wanted fast accelleration from the units. After the trains got longer, the GP60's showed how slippery they could really be, even with thier super series wheel slip control. These days you see them on all kinds of trains, with newer 6 axles holding down the Roadrailer assignments. Even though my line wont really support running diesels that well right now. I do plan to get a standard NS version to put in a display case on my mantle. Was going to get a Dash 9 but those are huge and take up my whole darn mantle. Keeping my fingers crossed that AML finaly delivers this item.


----------



## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Well Christmas this year would be nice. Anyway, the GP60 does not fit with my narrow gauge but the wide cab BNSF jobs are just such a favourite that I might just get one to display anyway.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> but overall it is still a small business.


And they have 7 different models about to be shipped, 5 in production (including your Heisler,) 11 under development (announced/committed but no dates,) and 9 more projects being considered. And there are 3 or 4 overseas dealers projects not even mentioned - the QJ, UK Garratt, etc. That's a lot of product going through the factory.
http://www.accucraft.com/company/ATpress.htm



> Good way to Not get preorders as some folks are going to move on to something else once dates start getting constantly pushed back, or just sit back and IF it gets made then they will purchase.


Mike,
As Robert pointed out in a recent thread, they try to only make the number of models that they have (pre)orders for. They mentioned that there are Pennsy T1s and Big Boys still in stock - they think that too many were made, perhaps?
So if you don't pre-order, you don't get one. As we learned with the EBT #12, you might have to wait a few years, but they usually arrive.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes, true, but with T1's and Big Boys, only so many can afford them or even be able to run them. Neither of those would appeal to me due to size and cost. The GP60 project should be of interest to many more large scale modelers than either of those large steamers. Accucraft is mostly a victim of thier own fast growth, so many different scales and product lines that they cannot keep up in a timely manner. Mike


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I want to hear what it will weigh in at for pulling power? Hope NO rubber tires...


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

The development and tooling is much greater for a plastic model, than for a brass one. The payback takes many, many more sales to make any profit.


----------



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Myself I would think the opposite.
Making a Brass and Stainless Steel Live Steam Locomotive has be more costly than a plastic model.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Cost vs sale price is the issue. They are OK with selling 100 brass locomotives. The molds alone for a plastic loco will run 100K+ and sell at a much lower point. These molds will make 1000s of parts in their life time, but sales are slower than desired. The demand in large scale is not that of most plastic items being made today. Thus the pay back takes too long to turn a profit.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Print the plastic, screw molds...


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't see molds costing $100,000.00 in this day and age. With computerization and the new tooling we have now, molds that took weeks and months to make are now being made in days. The real cost today is in manufacturing. Litterally all the big G gauge manufacturers are nothing more than distributors as they all depend on companies in China to build the product. And while the actual cost to the Chinese company to make the product is cheap, they require large orders, paid up front. This is why Aristo Craft bit the dust. They didn't have the cash and couldn't get the cash to pay up front. We as Americans have allowed China to become the Gorilla of our economy.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Even if the molds are $100,00.00, for a production run of 100 units that means $1000.- in cost has to be allocated just to pay for the molds, then one has to add all the components and assemble the unit.
And Chinese production casts have gone through the roof - higher labur costs, higher costs for transportation and quality issues which cost money as well.
Marklin has pulled back all their LGB G scale production back from China and now manufactures in Hungary; Piko never manufactured G-scale in China even though they own their own factory there (ie not contract manufacturing like Aristocraft and USA Trains).
The USA Trains "American" series of products is actually completely manufactured in the US - if you check out new, as in repaints, USAT products, they are mostly of the "American" series.
"China" manufacture of G-Scale is bad news, I think the only ones in reasonably good shape is Bachmann since they are owned by Kader, same company that owns the manufacturing facilities most G-Scale manufacturers use in China.
Knut


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Totalwrecker said:


> Print the plastic, screw molds...


If the print quality is there lets see them roll of the press.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Randy Stone said:


> I can't see molds costing $100,000.00 in this day and age. With computerization and the new tooling we have now, molds that took weeks and months to make are now being made in days. The real cost today is in manufacturing. Litterally all the big G gauge manufacturers are nothing more than distributors as they all depend on companies in China to build the product. And while the actual cost to the Chinese company to make the product is cheap, they require large orders, paid up front. This is why Aristo Craft bit the dust. They didn't have the cash and couldn't get the cash to pay up front. We as Americans have allowed China to become the Gorilla of our economy.


Place an order for the mold of your favorite locomotive. They could be assembled in the garage.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Ed in the Netherlands uses 3D printing for the G-Scale items he offers.
http://www.edgb.nl/?lang=en

Takes a very long time to print a larger item, e're talking many hours, and then requires a fair amount of additional labour to end up with an acceptable product.

Knut


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Even if the molds are $100,00.00, for a production run of 100 units that means $1000.- in cost has to be allocated just to pay for the molds, then one has to add all the components and assemble the unit.


Randy - I haven't heard that injection molding costs are any lower than they were. You basically have to make a steel 'negative' that can withstand hundreds or thousands of injections. While the machine tools for making a mold might be less pricey, the operator cost goes up!

There's no point in making an injection mold if you are only making 100. It's only cost-effective if you plan to make 100,000. [After that you can sell the mold and someone else starts making inferior copies from the worn-out mold; the Bachmann big-hauler gondola comes to mind?] Or you make a new mould if you can sell another 100,000.

The Aristo molds are a subject of some debate. Who owns them and if we'll ever see them being used again are interesting questions ?

I suspect that if you want just 100, then 3D printing will soon be the preferred solution. Not sure about 1,000 though. 

Accucraft has some experience with injection molding - the plastic rolling stock in particular is well done. Why it is taking them years to produce the GP60 is a mystery, but it is probably the lack of firm orders !!


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Treeman said:


> If the print quality is there lets see them roll of the press.



It's a young industry, advances are happening....


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy Stone said:


> I can't see molds costing $100,000.00 in this day and age. With computerization and the new tooling we have now, molds that took weeks and months to make are now being made in days. The real cost today is in manufacturing. Litterally all the big G gauge manufacturers are nothing more than distributors as they all depend on companies in China to build the product. And while the actual cost to the Chinese company to make the product is cheap, they require large orders, paid up front. This is why Aristo Craft bit the dust. They didn't have the cash and couldn't get the cash to pay up front. We as Americans have allowed China to become the Gorilla of our economy.


I am a retired Die Sinker/Mold maker.....made drop forging/press forging dies for over forty years, for aerospace and automotive. I also did plastic injection molds very similar to those molds made to manufacture your plastic diesel bodies. $100,000 is actually a low side figure, even in today's market! Sure the designer/engineer uses cad systems to draw the complicated geometry and render the "solid" or install the "surfaces" to the geometry. But the training to do this kind of work and actually produce a working mold is high-end stuff. And some of you folks are having trouble doing simple 2D drawing with Sketchup or even 3D drawings! THIS is very simplistic software compared to what is actually used in industry. Then you have to machine these molds with expensive wire or EDM machines, CNC mills with 5 and 6 axis'. Once the mold is machined, it has to be ground and finished polished. This is hand work, not machine! The actual finished cavity when it is done, actually looks chrome plated and cannot be touched (use special gloves). ANY blemish on the cavity surface will show like a spotlight in YOUR beautiful plastic diesel! Many of these molds are made of multiple pieces that all move during the manufacturing process so that the body can be removed from the cavity. Take a look at one of your diesel bodies and look at all the crevices and undercuts that are there. Sure you can mold the part, but try to remove it from the cavity when there are undercuts involved. Not so easy anymore, is it???

Maybe the next time you think you could manufacture a simple diesel OR a steam engine, you should have a "few" million dollars laying around and check on the actual cost of producing these toys.

Just adding a reality check here for those not in the manufacturing sector.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Pete Thornton said:


> There's no point in making an injection mold if you are only making 100. It's only cost-effective if you plan to make 100,000.


Pete,
The problem is that for most G-Scale items the quantities fall inbetween those numbers.
Now-a-days an intial run of 500 locos or 1000 cars are a reasonable number.
So G-Scale manufacturers create molds that can create a number of different models by small mold changes - people are getting a bit fed up with repaints of existing models.
Marklin has been pretty good at figuring that out with LGB products - using existing molds with modifications to create a new model, but they have also come up with brand new items that require new molds.

Sort of begs the question - what technology does one use to create a brand new G-Scale Diesel loco body with expected sales in the few hundred range.

Knut


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Totalwrecker said:


> It's a young industry, advances are happening....


I would love to see new G items 3D printed in the USA. The industry is sure to get better and better.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

krs said:


> Ed in the Netherlands uses 3D printing for the G-Scale items he offers.
> http://www.edgb.nl/?lang=en
> 
> Takes a very long time to print a larger item, e're talking many hours, and then requires a fair amount of additional labour to end up with an acceptable product.
> ...


These items look great. If they are printed the future is getting closer and closer.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Treeman said:


> These items look great. If they are printed the future is getting closer and closer.


3D printing is used where it makes sense - any parts that have a lot of detail ike roofs, cabs, etc. For large flat sides Ed de Bruijn uses styrene as far as I know.

But for smaller locos like that RhB switcher he has the whole chassis is 3D printed as shown in the picture.

However, before people get too exited - the items are quite pricey - two to three times the price of an equivalent LGB item and LGB is not exactly inexpensive. That little switcher with decoder, sound and powered pantographs runs 1135 Euros, that's about $1235.- and thatb with a very strong dollar right now (or weak Euro).

Knut


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

krs said:


> 3D printing is used where it makes sense - any parts that have a lot of detail ike roofs, cabs, etc. For large flat sides Ed de Bruijn uses styrene as far as I know.
> 
> But for smaller locos like that RhB switcher he has the whole chassis is 3D printed as shown in the picture.
> 
> ...


Note the resolution is not very good. But with higher resolution, comes a hefty price. 3D printing has come a long way in the past twenty years. I saw my first 3D printing over twenty years ago while taking a Mastercam seminar. This was in a university setting. Stereolithography was just beginning to come into use. Remember all these different ways of producing a model whether plastic injection molds or 3D printing.......these are all "tools" to accomplish certain tasks. You have to know WHICH tool to use and WHEN, to accomplish the manufacture of the final product.


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark Dashnaw made me this nice F40ph.








As you can see the model is not as ready for paint as a plastic injected model, but doing the finishing work is actually not all that hard. The white product is Squadron puddy for plastic filling. I'm using a small sanding tool with interchangeable heads to clean up the square corners. I will be using a self leveling epoxy on parts of the hood as a test to see if it reduces the sanding required.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Never heard of Mark before but this is his website:
http://www.kirkvillelocoworks.com/

I wonder what technology Accucraft is thinking of to manufacture a hundred or even a few hundred GP60's - I doubt it would be using 3D printing.

Knut


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

They will be injection moulded.


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Since a lot of folks here are G/F scale only, they probably don't follow what's going on in other scales, such as N, HO, and O. Specifically, Atlas Model Railroad, CO, 

I received this by email last December. A Game Changer in the Hobby?

*An Open Letter to Atlas Dealers, Distributors and Consumers* 
December 16th, 2014 
Dear Atlas Customers,
In this season of caring, giving and hope, I would like to sincerely thank you all for the past and continued support you have given to Atlas Model Railroad Company during recent turbulent times.
As many of you know, Atlas dissolved its relationship with a primary overseas supplier due to their request for excessive, across the board price increases. These increases would have placed Atlas and our dealers and distributors in a no-win competitive position, resulting in more severe business disruption, and potential business failure for Atlas. We, of course, could not allow this to happen.
Following this decision, Atlas needed to transfer thousands of its proprietary molds and tools from multiple factory and warehouse locations to multiple new supplier locations. This was easier said than done. Mold transfers were delayed, incomplete, damaged, etc., which necessitated Atlas to remake needed molds and tools, acquire new machinery, and in some cases go through a steep manufacturing learning curve.
The chosen path, while painful for Atlas and our customers, has eventually allowed Atlas to reconfigure its supplier base and resulted in a stronger and wiser Company. At this point in time, Atlas is close to the healthy production levels reached prior to market disruption. Dealer and distributor fulfillment is currently averaging 70% and many of our products are at much higher levels. 2015 will be better, as our new suppliers work smarter and more productively to deliver needed products.
Let me be crystal clear regarding any rumors about the imminent demise of Atlas Model, Atlas O, and our products. Setting aside the wishful thinking of a few competitors, these rumors are baseless and without merit. I will admit that some of the O scale product re-development efforts were more difficult than some of the N & HO. This was caused by complex and lengthy re-creation of needed molds and tools, as well as the additional opportunity to upgrade all 2 & 3 rail switches. Be assured that the added time to market for any Atlas product is well worth the effort.
Atlas has re-established consistency in the production and shipment of HO & N track and accessories, and a 100% effort is now being given to O scale 2 & 3 rail track and accessories. We are totally committed to the complete return of all scales in all categories, including rolling stock, locomotives, track and accessories. The overwhelming majority of all Atlas product categories in every scale have had molds and tools fully restored to equal or better quality. Initial production and reproduction is proceeding on schedule, and an active new product development plan is being carried out.
The resolution of the above situation could not have occurred without the hard work and dedication of all Atlas team members, as well as the understanding and continued loyalty and support of our customers. I sincerely apologize for the effects this disruption may have caused your business and, or hobby pursuits, and I look forward to increased mutual development and growth in this great hobby of model railroading both now and in the immediate future.
Happy Holidays to All,
Thomas W. Haedrich
Executive Chairman
Atlas Model Railroad Co. Inc.


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

That was very intersting reading. Unless I missed it they didn't say who or where the manufacturing is now being done.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Same thing that happened to Atlas and is described above happened to LGB.
Except that the LGB molds are much bigger - but otherwise pretty much the same situation....
Even after the molds were brought back to Europe - many were in terrible condition and had to be reworked and of course adapted to the different machinery there.

Knut


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Paul Burch said:


> That was very intersting reading. Unless I missed it they didn't say who or where the manufacturing is now being done.


I was wondering about that myself.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Japan? 
There's a bad component in the iWatch, production (of that part) is shifting to Japan.
John


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't get it. Over on LSC there is a long post string about Polks GenerationNeXt. Kader seems to control the Aristo and USA product line so I asked who makes AML for Accucraft. If I read correct they make their own products. If they make and control their production why the heck can't they get the GP60 to market? There has to be something going on that hasn't come to light.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Too much money in a tight market?

Making a small run of brass locos seems to be easier than the costs or setup to make the molds...

But, they seemed to do pretty well with their 1:29 cars.

I can't figure it out either. I have heard the motor blocks are in the prototype phase.

Greg


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

I think AML has gotten themselves into a catch 22 with their pricing. They charge full retail at product announcement, then lower price at distribution and then blow out price once line is out of production. With the 1/29 scale market having an abundance of USAt, Aristo, and some LGB floating around, these newer products don't support that type of pricing structure. They are NOT must have products! A GP60 is not that different than a GP35 from USAt. So pre orders are not that strong, hence they see a weak demand and drag their feet on production. Plus you have a consumer who has seen AML drop prices (aka 0-6-0, stock cars, 40fters) and will sit on the sidelines waiting for a deal (again this is not a must have Loco for most of us). It still perplexes me as to why 1/29 MFG's produce so many similar products. Especially when there are "must haves" still not on market. I'm talkin 50'+ flat cars, SD9, 4-8-4 steam, Amtrak double-deckers, ect. Those items could demand a great preorder market!


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Pete. If the promised SD9 were ahead of the GP60 I would have pre-ordered three instead of one GP60. Only ordered the GP60 out of curiosity for a new product and its engineering.


----------



## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Esppe Pete I couldn't agree with you more. AML makes a great product and certainly not going to knock them there but their choices to bring to market have been poor. The Dryfuss and this GP60 they are nice but one doesn't have broad appeal and other is like what I already on the market. Your list of other products I agree would be something people in the hobby would be more willing to pre order for. I know I would love to see a new large steamer for the market beyond the USA ones.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I disagree, the GP60 is a much more modern high horsepower 4 axle engine, A GP35 is a 1960's early turbo charged 4 axle. You don't see to many GP35's on class 1 railroads or even many shorlines, but you do see GP60's on most any type of freight, atleast on the Norfolk Southern. They were front line power for Roadrailers before train lengths shot up beyond what they could start on thier own. Now you see them in tandem and tripple lash ups on rail trains, ballest extras and sometimes on stack trains. Thier high hp makes them slippery but they are good for pushing the GE's up to track speed quicker. Aristo should have produced the SD9 years ago, but they dropped the ball then. I think if Accucraft/AML was more upfront with the buying public and showed proof of trucks in the prototype phase and showed they are actualy proceeding with production, more modelers might preorder. But they have a track record of shoving product off and postponing indefinatly. This does not go over well anymore with modelers. The lack of any new diesel models leaves the market(what market there is)ripe for a fresh model. USA hasn't really done much beyond a few reruns/road names on exhisting models. Who knows if we will see the Aristo GP40 back again, that was fairly modern 4 axle power. USA could set up and chop the nose on thier GP9, that would open up the whole shortline and regional road name market, along with the GP10/11 rebuilds of GP7/9s only a slight tooling change to the cab and short nose would be needed. I am guessing the new 3D printing market will make a round roof cab with numberboards/headlight assembly and low short hood in the near future. MIke


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Mike,
I think you are way more learned than the typical 1/29 buyer. My point is about the general appearance of the GP60, 4 axle road switcher. As you point out GP40 also produced. I think "must haves" usually define a type of loco or stock car that is missing from production. The SD9 for example was one of the first mass produced 6 axel diesels, has a defined look that differentiates it and even a nickname "Cadillac". I'm not saying the GP60 isn't a good loco to produce, I'm just saying it isn't going to generate sales or preorder numbers like a "must have"! What do you and others here think are "Must Haves" for the 1/29 scale market?


----------



## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

I think the Texas class would be neat.


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Agree with Pete again. I think it is just the general look of the GP60. Get 10 feet away and it might as well be a GP38-2 or a GP40. I certainly hope they sell enough to move ahead with the SD9. I would hope that anyone who is thinking of buying a GP60 would go ahead and reserve with one of the sponsors on this forum. That would probably help more than anything.


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

and I do have one reserved in the common NS paint scheme to go on my mantel. I will also get an SD9 if it gets produced. And I think most modelers in this scale are well versed in diesels, not so much a few years ago, but with the amount of detailed and customized USA/Aristo diesels I have seen, I think your not giving the large scale diesel modeler enough credit. They both need to be made and hopefully they will be. Next diesel I am trying to find is a Aristo/REA Burlington Northern GE U25-B, older version with sprung trucks. Mike


----------



## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

Speaking of sponsoring. the morons that run this forum never contact us when our ads run out to renew them. they are no where as easy to deal with as chad was.


----------

