# Stationary steam engine modeling questions



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I'm contemplating a build of a model walking beam steam engine, and have a few questions for those that know how this stuff works. This isn't going to be a live steam model, but I'd like to motorize it.

Anyway, this is the pump engine for the Savage mine on the Comstock Lode, ca. 1860-1880. 
- Single vertical cylinder, acting on the walking beam above; about 3' bore x 6.5' stroke
- About 18' dia main flywheel, driven by the vertical drive arm on the other side of the beam

[oops, ran into the fact that I don't know how to load pics anymore, gotta look into that]

Here's a clip of the computer model:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISF6JAPhb5s&feature=youtu.be

My main question, how fast (as in RPM's of the flywheel) might this beast have run? I've looked on youtube, but haven't seen a similar working 1:1 machine yet (on this scale). 

My other question, can someone point me to typical valving / plumbing for the simplest kind(s) of this sort of (early) engine? The only drawing I have shows a bare cylinder, no valves or pipes or nuthin, but that can't be right. No cams off the flywheel shaft, either. 

Thanks,
===>Cliffy

[edit: this is for a non-live-steam model, but maybe some day that'll happen...]


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

12 strokes per minute in 1905.... 24/7

http://books.google.com/books?id=PQ...w#v=onepage&q=walking beam pump mines&f=false


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Good ol' E&MJ! Great catch John, thanks!


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sure good buddy, happy to help.
Posting pics takes 2 pages or tabs open, your 1st class space, a album in the gallery or at a hosting site. From one of those save the URL and then paste it in using the yellow sky icon ... or look below and click on Go Advanced... 
Now you have smiley and more options, scroll down and see Attach Files and click on Manage Attachments a new side box opens where you can add 110 attachments straight from your hard drive. A clickable Thumb gets posted, they are bigger than the old 800 wide and auto sized.
I've posted examples else where, I won't clutter your thread.

John


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks John, I'll look into that. 

Here's a re-do of the video, now running at 12rpm. I added the main pump rod and counterweight tank to the bob. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv1m1h1hDW0&feature=youtu.be

[edit]
Tryin' out the new way of pic insertion...

http://forums.mylargescale.com/memb...re1450-hague-146f-savage-works-elev-mach.html

Well, the yellow sky icon doesn't do anything at the moment...

[nuther edit]

Still not working. Well, maybe tomorrow. 

The above link goes to the main drawing I'm working from. I'm having to really shorten the assembly, because there was no room for a full-size mine facility footprint.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

See, Cliff.
This is why you need to move West young Man...

We have plenty of room for "Full Size FEET PRINTS"...
No shrinkage...
No selective compression..
Real one ta one size buildings and structures.
In 1/29th world...

So many reasons...
Dirk


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

So, just hypothetically, if one consumed a double-shot of Johnnie Walker and followed that with a double-shot of Jim Beam, would HE turn into a Walker-Beam engine? 

Ducking & weaving,
David Meashey


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

He might have beaming smile, but he probably would not walk too well.


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

*rim shot*


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

another photo attempt...










Well John, I opened another MLS tab, uploaded this photo to my new album, copied the web address, went back to this window / tab, and pasted in the box that comes up after clicking the yellow sky thing. But no workie, just this icon.

Another try, using the "Picture URL" at the bottom:
Another try, using the "BB URL" at the bottom:

[edit: those did visibly come in, but I had to remove the links because the pics were too big.]

[edit: well, I got this far (thumbnails):]


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

must be a jinx


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Kevin posted another way...
http://forums.mylargescale.com/11-public-forum/29105-first-post.html


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks John, and I did use your method and then Kevin's.
Slowly getting it.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Arf?
If nothing else the ol' Internet keeps teaching this old dog new tricks!


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Yeah, really -- especially when everything's a moving target! 

Here's my next progress shot on the model. Next will the three hoist engines.







[edit: wow, that's the FIRST TIME i've gotten a video to preview / run on the post (vs. just a raw link), and it happened automatically. The mind boggles!]


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Very Cool, Cliff!
Jerry


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Jerry. It's been interesting to learn more about how steam engines work, and what the components are called. I've sure a long way to go!

For example, I started learning yesterday a little about crossheads, and the rails or guides (?) they run on. I put some rudimentary ones in the model. Eventually they'll be more detailed, but for now I'm mainly getting the basic elements in.






Next comes the bullwheels (main sheaves) and cages, and the (flat) cables. The latter would need to be an endless loop, for the sake of a motorized model. 

It would be fun to put 4 motors in, with the winch motors on semi-random timers. One of the winches should make a cage pop up on occasion. 

Well, that's the idea anyway.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy,

Your first link is the web page which includes your pic, not the picture on its own. I copied the link (right-click/properties which showed it was an html, not a jpg.) I then right-clicked in the picture and selected 'copy'. Then I came back to this thread and typed this text then did a 'paste' of the picture from my clipboard.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> It's been interesting to learn more about how steam engines work


How about making a moving beam engine, like the Stourbridge Lion ?


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Pete. 

I've heard about the Lion, but didn't realize its beam "moved" (as in translated, forward and back with each piston stroke, as your pic seems to suggest?). Very cool! 

However, I've bitten off enough I think with this Savage prototype, as basic as it was. 

Here's an example. I can't yet figure out its main valve yet... its rod is shown right above the piston rod, and (from the plan view) it seems centered over it. But that doesn't make sense to me, because where would the valve cam go? Or maybe they used some other means of actuating the valve rod. Unfortunately, the drawing isn't clear. So unless someone can tell me that this is the good ol' XYZ valve linkage method, or find an example in my web searching, I'll have to conclude that the drafter got lazy with the plan view drawing, and just didn't detail the valve rod, cam and housing. 

As you can see, I'm really green on all this.

===>Cliffy


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

This is the closest example I can find for a valve rod centered directly over the piston rod.


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Ooooooo000ooooh....

I just discovered you can rename a thread (which I just did to this one), and edit even your earliest posts!


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

At first they were slide valves and later improved to piston valves.
Some were controlled by governors, a common variant was the flyball Gov. As it sped up the balls would lift and extend by centrifical force and change the setting ...


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Do you have a diagram or pic of the slide valve? All I'm familiar with is the round(?) piston-like spool that slides in and out.

Yeah, the governors are cool. But unless it was because of drafter's license, they're not shown in the Savage drawings (as far as I can see). 

Nice shot of the Mud Hole Mine.


----------

