# To Railbender or not, That is the question???



## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I am using Code 250 brass flextrack. I put some sections together and decided to see how I could bend my curves without the railbender. I could definately get a good curve without having to use my railbender. My question is, how many of you use a railbender and why? And also how many dont use one and do they see any problems?


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Can you bend rails without a railbender? Ummm....yes _but(!)_ will you bend them to the right curvature? How do you get them to bend so that they are exactly parallel? For that matter, how do you get a continuous curve (not to mention what happens when the inevitable kink occurs)? A railbender is definitely _and most emphatically recommended!!! _If you have access to one there shouldn't even be a question as to whether to use it or not! As you can see, I have rather strong feelings about this situation!


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

I agree with Steve. You will get consistent curve with the bender as opposed to my old method of using my belly (don't try this at home kids). The kink is inevitable, the rail bender is your best insurance. 

The other inevitability is future changes and modifciations. Here the rail bender will be your friend and help you recoup your investment in track, by allowing you to reconfigure track. 

I am glad I got mine, I don't know how I put up with my old ways without it. 

Fil


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## JohnM (Mar 3, 2010)

i have a sunset valley old school bender, hated it, but it was the only show in town when Rich was still involved in that venture. A few months ago I picked an near new Trains Li bender on EBay for 200 bucks and it is the cats meow. So simple and so fast.....do not buy a bend and thread bender, buy a track-on version.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I have never used a rail bender. No kinks. I use the AMS flextrack, which keeps the rails parallel. I use the ladder method to get my curves and bent the track to fit; fastening it down every so often holds it in place. If I make a change, I just bend the track again.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The problem with bending by hand is that you don't get a consistent curve, especially at the ends of the rail. You just can't belly bend and also bend the ends. You will have straight ends where the rail sections join. 

Get a bender. Your track is the foundation of your railroad. 

Greg


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## RailCat (Apr 10, 2009)

Something I have been curious about. Do the rails stay vertical when you use the Train-Li bender or do they tend to lean toward the inside of the curve? It looks like all the pressure is against the railhead and none on the base since the cast spikes of tie strips would be in the way. I have wondered if the bender might bear against the web though. If the rail does lean, I assume it does not lean enough to cause problems? Still plan to build something indoors at some point and am debating on whether to go with sectional or flex track. If I go with flex track, I am pretty sure I will want to buy one of those benders. 

Scott


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I don’t think this question has a yes or no answer. I just put down 560 feet of 250 NS Llagas Creek track and not once used a rail bender. It is so smooth that with a good push an Aster passenger car chassis will do over 1 1/2 laps. The trick here is large curves and having the track fastened down about every foot. Also as you go around a curve the inside rail gets longer and therefore the joints are staggered, this solves the kink problem at the joints. Use a rail bender if you’re doing tight radius curves on ballast without the track fastened down. I do have a single rail bender and have used it in the past, I have seen the Train-Li bender used with track put down on bench work and it does make smooth curves. I do question if it can be used on a gravel/ballasted road bed, will the track be supported enough so you can push down while you roll it along, I have not tried it so I don’t know.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I bought a Rail bender when they first came out. It is the best investment I every made. I can now buy any bargin in track there is. I can bend curves sharper or straighten them out. The rails always remain vertical. I have custom bent rails to fit in Carters Canyon. Also on my tunnel area.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

One of my first purchases when I started my outdoor layout in 2009 was a Train-Li bender. It's not only good, helpful and necessary, it's FUN! I'm sure, to my neighbors, I look like a kid playing with his toy trains on the living room rug. My track floats on stone roadbed so anytime I make changes to the track plan, I'm down there with the Train-Li, gently nursing it into the sweeping curves I'd see if I was flying in a Cessna a few hundred feet over a Class 1 road.

When I'm laying new track (Sunset Valley stainless steel) I work it into the approximate curve I want on the patio, then take it to the roadbed and make a few more passes to get it almost perfect, connect to previous section and smooth out the join. Beauty!










Back in my HO days, I tried forming brass flextrack across my midsection. Made a lot of V's.

JackM


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

on a gravel/ballasted road bed, will the track be supported enough so you can push down while you roll it along, 

Actually, you don't push down, just glide from side to side. Couldnt' be easier. 

JackM 

I should be a songwriter: glide from side to side.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That looks REALLY nice Jack! Really shows the advantage of flex vs. sectional. 

How do you like their track? I'd like to change over. 

Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I think you all have great points. I'm using brass and it bends easier than SS. I was able to get a pretty consistant curve with bending by hand, because I took great care when I set the curves on my ladder. However, I was thinking that the curve may not stay in place as good if I dont use the bender. I just bought a Train-Li bender, it is being shipped and is not here yet. I was curious if I might have not needed it.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

One inportant thing.....DON'T FORGET TO REMOVED ALL THE SCREWS FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE TRACK BEFORE BENDING. and CUT EVERY OTHER PLASTIC JOINTER BETWEEN THE TIES ON THE OUST SIDE RAIL.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jake, you don't have to remove ALL the screws, there's several different camps on how many to remove, and of course curvature will tell you how many straps you have to cut. I advocate leaving a few of the screws in, and in worst case, leave one screw for each plastic tie section... otherwise (and your experience may vary) you might find that expansion and contraction caused everything to gap at one end, and bunch up at another. 

The point I was making is worth checking.... look at the rail you jsut bent, were you able to bend the last 6-8 inches as evenly (or at all) as the rest of the curve? I'll bet not. That's the tricky part, and it can really affect how your track looks, and how it operates if your curves are not very broad. 

You might be able to hand bend evenly at the ends if you clamp 2 rail sections together with a rail clamp and then bend at the joint, that I have not tried, but it seems possible. 

Regards, Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Do to the shape of rail if you bend a piece of rail without a bender it will deform and tend to lean inwards. Much more pronounced when bending a single piece of rail than when bending assembled track. All my code 250 rail was done with the Sunset Valley bender. I found that I only need to get the inside and outside rail fairly close in diameter. When assembled the tie strip will take care of the rest. My oldest track has been down 6.5 years now. It's really nice on a curve using flex track to be able to transition into the curve. A much more realistic look.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Apr 2011 08:31 AM 

You might be able to hand bend evenly at the ends if you clamp 2 rail sections together with a rail clamp and then bend at the joint, that I have not tried, but it seems possible. 

Regards, Greg 

Actually Greg thats what I did. I used that trick in building my HO layout to get good transitions into my curves. I didnt notice the tilting inward of the rail. I will have to check that when I get home. Anyways, I'm getting a Train-Li bender so I will use it, hate to spend all that money and not use it.

As for the screws, I'm not sure what you mean. I'm using Sunset Valley flextrack, the connector strip for the ties is down through the center. I dont have to cut any ties apart as far as I understand it. I have to say, working with the strip down the center is a lot easier, than how most flextrack manufactors do. I am also using the railjoiners, I'm using battery power and there wont be any track power. I went this way instead of spending money on the rail clamps. If this doesnt work then I'll buy the clamps later.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

how are Li benders on handlayed/spiked to wood ties rail? I've been using a single rail bender on brass rails. Aluminum rails don't need.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

The easy way is to join a club that has a rail bender and lets their members use it.

Our club bought a Train-Li two years ago with the optional attachments and it is there for any members to use as needed.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The train-Li bender is great for tuning up the tracks when doing modifications, or after winter repairs!!


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Greg - thanks for your kind words. I have to admit I often just stand and take in the gracefulness of those curves (not being married any more I didn't have to worry about someone looking over my shoulder as I wrote that), not because I built it, but because I'm a sucker for trackwork. I'm pleased with how the earlier owners of this place arranged their plants. Like a 1:1 railroad, I let the topography determine the course.

If I can answer a few of the questions in this thread -
I'm very pleased with Sunset Valley stainless. Tough stuff. The track that runs out of sight at top center curves to the right (15' diam.) and ends up the track seen on the right. Originally it curved back to become a simple flowerbed loop. Last year I opened the loop and added the 200 feet that go around to the front of the house. We haven't had much of a Spring, but last week I turned on the DCC and plunked my S4 down on the track. It stalled only a few times, mostly because the trucks got stranded on top of a stone or twig between the rails. The flowerbed loop has been through two winters - months of two or three feet of snow sitting on top of the rails (I live not far from the edge of Lake Ontario) - and I have never cleaned an inch of it. I couldn't ask for more.

The Train-Li is easy to use. You just swipe it a couple times side to side, adjust it a bit, swipe it again, etc. A few tweaks and you have the curve you want. As I mentioned before, it's easy to use right on ballasted roadbed. Up to this point, I've used only the connectors SV includes with the track. It's been a year since I used the bender, but I don't recall the connectors being much of a problem. I'm switching to clamps this year so I expect it'll be a matter of loosening it to take it off and put it back on, then re-adjust and continue. The adjuster has a micrometer (I guess it qualifies as a micrometer) so you can re-adjust to the previous setting. You can't do the last couple inches of rail, of course, but with an adjacent piece of track, particularly if the joints are staggered, it's not a big problem.

As has been mentioned, SV track is joined at the middle of each tie. It's simple to use a pair of diagonal cutters to separate the ties as needed. I do have two curves where the track has a definite "superelevated" tilt, but I don't find it offensive or unrealistic. Those are places where I had to fudge my rigid 16' diameter rule to maybe 14feet and on a grade to boot. I suspect I could have avoided the tilt if I had simply cut the joiners to allow the ties to separate naturally. It's also possible that I should've done the bending operation on a more solid surface to keep it flat.

Yes, borrow one from a club if you don't expect to need it again next year. I bought a nice little aluminum suitcase for mine; I've got plans.

JackM


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The reference to screws is probably from JJ using Aristo track, which holds gauge not by the "spikes" but by screws from the underside through the ties. They are the only people that do this. 

Also, I believe JJ was again referring to Aristo track on cutting the connecting webs that are directly underneath the rail, not down the center of the ties. 

Of course, since you are not using Aristo track, you don't have to worry about these items. I only responded back to JJ because there's several (successful) camps of thought about the screws and the web on Aristo track. 

I love good looking trackwork, I'm coming over your place to run trains Jack! 

Regards, Greg


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

If it ever stops raining here (two or three times our normal April rain this month), and I can get the topsoil I need (landscape place can only supply mud at this point), I'll get the rail yard and train shed installed. The pneumatic actuators are already installed on the switches - I had to do something last weekend. 

Then convert to Kadees. 

THEN the fun begins!


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack, 
I really want to come visit! 

Chas


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well there is really no large scale club around my neck of the woods, so I'm a lone wolf. However, there are a few guys in the area that dabble in large scale and I will take your advice and offer my Railbender to them to use if they need it. 

The suggestion to readjust the curves after winter ravages is an excellent idea I had not thought of. The Train-Li bender will definately be good for that. 

Jack, its good that someone else is just using the rail joiners. I was a little leery of that because of expansion and contraction. I wonder why your deciding to switch?


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Chas - I'll put the word out when it's more or less ready. More a matter of having some dry weather. I'm taking off from work the first and last weeks of May; sure hope I'm not sitting inside watching still more rain. 

Jake - I don't _hate _ rail joiners but, once they get somewhat corroded, separating two sections of track becomes a three-hand job: hold track in place, put tip of screwdriver against joiner, tap with small hammer. The upstream section of track moves away, bends, etc. Clamps will make it easier to open a joint for whatever reason without causing any complications. I particularly regret not having used clamps on track switches, and I'll be a lot more generous with the No-Ox even though I've had few conductivity problems with the connectors. I'll be installing 20 switches in the train shed and yard. Clamps will make all that much easier, and allow for adjustments, modifications, and radical redesign if necessary. 

JackM 

Has it stopped raining yet?


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Ah, I see. I also understand the switch now, you are using track power. I will probably use the claps around the switches to keep alignment. 

Hope it stops raining in your neck of the woods.


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## johnsteam (Feb 16, 2008)

I have AMS 332 track and made my own (train-li style) dual rail bender and works great. 332 track without a bender just would not easily take and keep shape. So I went on a bender and made one. 
John of the 
CHUFF n STUFF RR


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jake3404 on 24 Apr 2011 07:35 PM 
I am using Code 250 brass flextrack. I put some sections together and decided to see how I could bend my curves without the railbender. I could definately get a good curve without having to use my railbender. My question is, how many of you use a railbender and why? And also how many dont use one and do they see any problems?

.................................................................................................................. 


Were all for the rail binder. 

Now that we have access to a Train L track bender, I don't think I could lay track with out it again. We use just about anything we can get in Brass tracks.( Aristo, USA, & LGB. ) 

Most of our Tracks in these small projects, are used stuff that most people didn't want and a lot of it were in 3 to 6 foot dia. curvers.. So we just make streights out of them with the Train L binder. 


Here is a project that we are working on now at our set up area with boxs of scrap brass tracks to get what we want in this 40 foot area. 
Note: Just about all of the track was curves at one time in these photos. 










This is what we layed out today with the binder. 
Track Layout for set up area. 



If we had the extra money and times was better, Ya... we would buy long flex track section to do the Job. So for now we go this way and love the binder.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well, I'm convinced by your comments that I definately did the right thing by getting the Train-Li bender. It should arrive either today or Monday. I was hoping it would come before the weekend, but I really dont need it. I have a lot of dirt moving to do before I start putting my track down.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Yep you did. 
The bender works with the Laws of Physics rather than against them. 

Many many years ago (1974) I fabricated a cylindrical Pill box in Sterling Silver. The catch for a good grade was the top had to go on in any orientaion... so the cylinder had to be round.. 

Once the teacher explain 'the Law' I understood. Equal tension all around would spring it to perfection. Soldering the seam softened the edges so they stayed flatter until I could harden them. 
After a heck of a lot of pounding with a leather mallet over a round steel stake I had it. 

What does this have to do with track, you ask? Well the bender will put equal pressure against the railhead as you use it and the rail will take on the smooth curve and that is the whole purpose of the bender. 

If you take the way back machine and can remember the first Atlas HO flex on fiber ties (60s I think), you'll remember how hard it was to bend code 100 smoothly, lots of variations. Would have loved to have had a bender for that stuff! 

As always we'll want pics! 

Happy (bender) Rails 

John


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

_If you take the way back machine and can remember the first Atlas HO flex on fiber ties (60s I think), you'll remember how hard it was to bend code 100 smoothly, lots of variations. Would have loved to have had a bender for that stuff! _

Boy John did you bring up the old stuff from the 50ths... I had to laf and do you remember after bending it and then put some ballast on, and spraying it with Elmers white glue. Then leave it out in the sun to dry.. Mine went narrow gage.. What a mess to get it back up to re -do it. 

Sure wish we had a binder for that suff .. Mine always kinked, but sure was glad to have some flex track.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, the Atlas HO flextrack was bad, but I learned that the GarGraves S gauge flex track was even worse. That tubular rail was made from thin stock that made it a bear to cut without mangling it. Their wood ties were pretty flimsey, too.

David Meashey


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

Everything I do is hand-bent. Granted, I have no track on the ground but I have built a couple of switches now and several feet of mobile track which is hand-spiked and done in Aluminum code 250. IMHO, unless you're modeling a high-speed train the prototype rails aren't perfectly evenly bent and having that unevenness in your model lends a certain amount of character and realism. 

I'm currently building 4 #8 switches and a diamond to go between them out of code 332 brass and I see no issues with hand-bending the stuff as desired. 

Granted, I'm an engineering-type and I like to make all my trucks and locomotives have working suspensions. Cross-leveling is much less of an issue when you do that due to the flanges not being as likely to rid over a dip in the outer rails.  

Trot, the somewhat ballanced, fox...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Trot, you sly fox, aluminum is like bending a noodle vs. a brass bread stick!. 

Per your switches short, broad arcs are much more do able than long even curves, some do like 'em! Besides it would be harder to use a bender on a numbered switch which should be an angle of deflection vs. a radius or arc. What curves? The points which are half ground away? Oh my... 

That said, hopefully in a playfull way, there is nothing wrong with hand bending, as long as you like the result. Some prefer a modern mainline look. 

Me? I'm playing with trains and regressed to sectional track! That's all the jerkiness I can handle!  

John


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

John, 

I'm just sayin', that's all. } ; ] The rail I'm building the switched from is mostly used and very little of the long pieces start out straight... You think bending a smooth curve is rough, try getting a perfectly straight rail from one that's been abused.  

Also, I have some experience working on the club's code 332 track. Mostly in flattening vertical bends where people aren't careful enough while moving the scale buildings around.  

Trot, the light-footed, fox...


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Can you bend without it...yes but like stated above you will not get consistency in your bends....do I bend without it..yes, but I follow up with the bender and the result is perfection!

Best thing I purchased was the Train-Li bender! It has become the club bender. In fact just used it this weekend to rebend some flex track..best money I have spent.

IMHO

Bubba


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

At the risk of embarrassing Jack, here's that picture again from his earlier post. I challenge anyone to hand bend to get this look. To me trackwork like this is great to just even look at! These sweeping curves duplicate the prototype.


Greg


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Blush.....


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

You are correct Greg, 

Those are definately great looking curves...(we are talking about track right?!?) 

Now Jack dont try to use sand in place of dirt and your expansion will look as good. (From another post).


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I like to think my hand bent stuff turned out well.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Well I the gauntlet has been thrown in, rather nicely I might add! 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It all depends on what you are modelling, and what is acceptable to you. I model mainline track, so I appreciate smooth, flowing curves.

In a small branchline, kinks and irregularities may "build character"... I see 3 "kinks" in your trackwork Bruce. Not saying it's bad, but it's not in the same class (and AGAIN before I get flamed all over the place, you probably don't mind).

(the original is duplicated below for reference) (you may have to enlarge the picture to see the "top" one)


Greg


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Um...I think I'm going to have to purchase a Train-Li Matheson Textiles unit.


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## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Here is mine... 




















Alec.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

I finally got of my wallet and ordered an RLD bender, some rail, spikes and rail clamps today. I think in the long run it will make life much easier. Getting pretty excited about getting track down this spring.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm...never noticed those before.


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## WSOR (Jun 27, 2010)

To all you code 250 guys,

Does the Train-Li-Bender work with the sunset valley track? Would/Could it also do code 215?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yup notheing beats a good rail bender. Even if you are modling a branch line RRs years ago took pride in that track also looking as good as the main only with lighter rail. I know back in my days of RRing I had a branch that looked as good as my main track It was over time and RRs neglect of these branch lines that they quite maintaining to the high standards of the RR. Hence it was called deferred maintenance and it also applied to the main tracks. I prefer good looking track including the branches. So I use a bender. Later RJD


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Chris - I use my Train-Li with Sunset Valley Stainless code 250. The same Train-Li does 215.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By WSOR on 02 May 2011 04:52 PM 
To all you code 250 guys,

Does the Train-Li-Bender work with the sunset valley track? Would/Could it also do code 215? 


We done both gages by changing out the washer for the hight needed. If want, add more washers and can bend wire., We going to bend some S.S wire for our 4 foot turn table rollers.


The binder can't be beat...


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