# Engine gets starts slow then speeds up



## jimtronic (Apr 2, 2008)

I'm trying to figure out why my engine seems to take a while to warm up. When I first bring it out, it runs very slowly and then after several runs, it eventually seems to go faster. 

I just recently installed my track. It is 75' and a mix of lgb and aristo brass. I've been cleaning the track with a pole sander and making sure the pickups are clean and shiny. I've tested the voltage on the entire system and it is consistent. 

I do have a 2-3% grade in some spots and the engine is so slow when it starts that it just can't make it up these hills. Once it has "perked" up it has no problem with these grades. 

Jim


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it would help to know what your engine is. Also, is this your only engine? If not, do all your engines do this? 

-Brian


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## jimtronic (Apr 2, 2008)

It is an LGB 0-4-0 from one of the starter sets. This is my only engine.


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## Guest (May 28, 2008)

might be, that it got thick grease in the gears, slowing it down till it warms up...


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## jimtronic (Apr 2, 2008)

It does seem to speed up faster when I use the Smoke/Cleaning fluid. Or, when I give it a little push while it is running...


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

How big is your power supply? Could also be a problem. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Odd. 

Don't think it could be the lubrication. Doesn't sound like power supply either.


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Possibly the wheels or track are slightly dirty. AS the train runs it "cleans" the contacts which makes it run better. Try cleaning track and wheels first see if it runs good when you first start. 

Tom P


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I will tell you that your loco will run different speeds on brass vs. SS. 

I have seen many posts confirming this. This is CLEAN track. The deal is that brass starts to oxidize immediately. Most people will never see or believe this until it is demonstrated for them. 

I started with a loop of track of LGB and USAT brass. I then built my layout bit by bit, and slowly got rid of all the brass. I have all SJ SS rail clamps. 

I noticed some time later that my train slowed down for just a bit on the far side of the layout. Sure enough, there was a 1 foot straight of brass still in there! 

So, you might check to see if this is a contributing factor. 

Regads, Greg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I've seen that.


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## gw (May 24, 2008)

How big is your power supply. The one that comes with the starter sets is sometimes 1 amp. THat is what I had and I had a similiar problem. I bought a bigger unit and now my loco has no problem getting up to speed and running as fast as I want it to. It will also pull as many cars as the weight of the locomotive will allow. I didn't have as much track as you have when I first started having the problem.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

In the first post, the behavior is described as: 

"I'm trying to figure out why my engine seems to take a while to warm up. When I first bring it out, it runs very slowly and then after several runs, it eventually seems to go faster. " 

If this was a power supply problem, it would be the same at first and later, unless the power supply was severely overtaxed. But if that was true, it would get worse as the power supply overheated, not at the beginning. 

He gets slow operation at first when the power supply would be at it's best. 

The problem seems to be elsewhere. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

It's doubtful it's the power supply, or the track, it's probability in the loco....I would suspect grease or binding, the thing to do to narrow down the possibilities because it's an LGB engine you can try blocking the enigine up off the track or work bench and applying power to the sliders, if it has the same symptoms it's in the loco, if not, although unlikely it's probably in the track, or power supply...


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## Schlosser (Jan 2, 2008)

Back in the 50's, we didn't have much to choose from in types of greases. I used what IBM put on sorter gears that fed cards at 600 cards per minute (which we thought was fast back then); it really STUCK to gears. I used this on my HO locos and EVERYONE of them, on start up, would run slowly bur would gradually warm up and then run normally. 

So I, too, think the problem lies in the engine's guts. Binding is a probability but I never had a bind free up and then be bad the again next day. Much more likely is hardened grease, as once it cools down, it becomes hard again. 

Art


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

My thought is that if you checked out the track and the power source well. 
Engine's wheels are clean? 
I am betting it is a binding problem of some kind...I have had those issues...when starting or going slow...you get an uneven or no movement at all untill you push it. 
Try looking over the engine very closely, putting it up on rollers and test from a stop to slow speed, and even, if noting is noticable I have even taken off the plate covering the motorblock..very carefully of course...could be something very simple to fix as the LGB 0-4-0s' are bullitt proof. 

I have also read here that maybe the slider springs has something to do with it also, maybe they are sticking and not free flowing, increasing pressure on the rails, and by pussing it it sems to free them up a little...not sure..isn't it fun to problem solve? 

Hope this helps 

Bubba


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## jimtronic (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for all of your thoughts and insights. 

Dirty Track: cleaning the track definitely makes it run better, but it still cannot pull more than one tiny gondola up my steepest 3% grade. When I first installed the track, the engine could handle all three of it's cars. It still slowed down on the grades, but not nearly as much as it does now. 

Dirty Wheels: I've cleaned the pickups and the wheels as best as I can, but it's hard to tell if there was a difference. 

Power Supply: I've measured the voltage at various points on the track and it seems both continuous and consistent. 

Engine Gears and Grease: Something that I did not mention before was that this problem occurred indoors as well. When I would first start running the train on the starter circle, it would go really slowly and then perk up. This perk up would happen after half a pass around the starter set, so I ignored it. Is there something I should be doing to 'oil' my engine? Does the smoke fluid clean the inside of the engine? 

Thanks again for all the advice.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Bubba, re-read his first post. That will convince you it is not the track power or cleanliness. 

Could he have corrosion or dirt on his wheels? Not likely that it would clear up by itself. 

Thick grease is the first theory I have heard so far that fits what we have been told so far. 

Regards, Greg


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

It could be the motor itself. With my "Loco Doctor" hat on at our local show, I see this problem sometimes in the smaller scales caused by a motor that's been over-oiled and the oil has gotten onto the commutator. The brushes and the commutator get contaminated. The motor runs slow when cold until the brushes warm up and burn off some of the oil. 

Normal cure is to remove the brushes and clean these up on some kitchen paper, re-profiling the commutator end with a small file if necessary. The commutator is then cleaned and the brushes re-fitted. Apply power and let the brushes settle before refitting the motor to the chassis. 

Nick


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that sounds plausible.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/09/2008 1:49 PM
Bubba, re-read his first post. That will convince you it is not the track power or cleanliness. 

Could he have corrosion or dirt on his wheels? Not likely that it would clear up by itself. 

Thick grease is the first theory I have heard so far that fits what we have been told so far. 

Regards, Greg






Greg read my post a little further down as I feel that is potentially what is going on...sliders...maybe. 

Thanks 

Bubba


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, thought about that, he said he cleaned the sliders, so sort of assumed that any lack of spring tension would have been reported, but we need a definite "checked that" on this one I will completely agree. 

Regards, Greg


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Like Nick said, a good commutator cleaning will fix this 99% of the time.. 
Seen, and fixed this problem numerous times over the years, mostly caused 
by over-zealous oiling in most cases I think... 
Paul R...


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## Art (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By W3NZL on 06/11/2008 4:46 AM
Like Nick said, a good commutator cleaning will fix this 99% of the time.. 
Seen, and fixed this problem numerous times over the years, mostly caused 
by over-zealous oiling in most cases I think... 
Paul R... 





I have had this problem in smaller scales and learned to not oil things very much and only do it when necessary. I have a feeling this is the problem. 

Art


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## jimtronic (Apr 2, 2008)

Ok, thanks for all the help. 

I found that if I spray wd40 at the wheels, it gets up to speed quickly. This makes me think I've got some sort of gunk or corrosion or bent something. While it has no trouble with a small 20' gondola (LGB Toy Train), it still can't manage to haul my new 40' gondola around the track. 

I also found some joints that hadn't been screwed together (aristo brass). That and cleaning also seems to help.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, could be the power pickups are not working well at first... I'd pull the loco apart and check the path of electricity from rails to motor. Clean the wheels, and you should not need wd 40. Maybe your track is dirty, and fix the track. 

The things you are saying now do not really match what you originally posted, i.e. bad rail joints. 

Let us know what you find helps, then we can help the next guy faster! 

Regards, Greg


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## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

You know, all of my locomotives start out a tiny bit slow, even when I run them inside, and then little by little, they speed up, and I turn the power back some to bring their speed down. They're all LGB; even my starter set Stainz does this, and now it's 24 years old, and it always did it. The Porters and the little industrial steamers do it, too. Happens both outside and indoors. You know, on my railroads, I kinda think it's normal... 
SandyR


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

OK....just though of something....try a different power supply....if they ALL act the same way maybe it is the power pack you are routinely using. 

By trying a different power supply maybe we can narrow the problem down....to it being a faulty power supply. 

The give away is that they all act the same way....that is not the norm or possible, as problems with a locomotive are always associated with that one loco and NOT the whole stable of locos! 

For giggles and grins get a differnt power supply with the same rating as the one you are routinely using....making sure that it works properly for the person you are brorrowing it from....THEN get one that has, at least double or tripple the power of the one you routinely use. 

But try ALL the locos on both power supplies! 

This will tell you 2 things, by process of elimination.... 

1. If in fact you ARE having an issue with your power supply in question. 

2. It will isolate if you ARE having a problem with any of your locos....or having an issue at 
all with the locos. 


Remember that this process is only going to be succesful if you have already eliminated the track problems....dirty track, and conductivity....the sliders will tell tale when you run all of the locos...you could also remove the sliders for testing AFTER you have tested as suggested above. 


I can't wait to hear the results. 

Hope this helps 

Bubba


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

The slow acceleration sounds like that of a transistor throttle which is designed to provide slow starts and stops. Unless I'm missing something here, (wouldn't be the first time hehe!). What kind of power supply are you using? Does the engine also stop slowly?


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Depending on the age of this locomotive depends whether or not my comment is valid. 

BUT - LGB had an electronic 'delayed acceleration' or 'soft-start' system integrated into some of their earlier locomotives. 

I don't know enuff about LGB to give the correct title to this feature, but maybe an expert can name it. 

Maybe THIS is the 'problem'...it's not a problem, but is there intentionally. 

On the other paw, 'starter set' locos tend to have had a hard life, with over-oiling being just one of the hazards they experience at the hands of newbies who may be keen to 'improve' the performance of their loco. 

tac


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

From his first post, 
"I'm trying to figure out why my engine seems to take a while to warm up. When I first bring it out, it runs very slowly and then after several runs, it eventually seems to go faster." 

Possible something on the engine that frees it self up after it warms up.... 


Another of his posts, 
"Something that I did not mention before was that this problem occurred indoors as well. When I would first start running the train on the starter circle, it would go really slowly and then perk up. This perk up would happen after half a pass around the starter set, so I ignored it. Is there something I should be doing to 'oil' my engine? Does the smoke fluid clean the inside of the engine?" 

Possible thick or dry grease made worse with the addition carpet fibers, cat hair, floor stuff, etc., it's surprising what small piece of hair or thread can do wrapped around an axle(s)..? 


His last post, 
"I found that if I spray wd40 at the wheels, it gets up to speed quickly. This makes me think I've got some sort of gunk or corrosion or bent something. While it has no trouble with a small 20' gondola (LGB Toy Train), it still can't manage to haul my new 40' gondola around the track." 

Probably, the WD40 helps the above problems, but doesn't fix it, thats why it it doesn't pull like it used too....


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## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

Bubba, I've used several different power packs, the best of the lot being a PH Hobbies PS-3, and I noticed the slow start, later speed-up phenomenon with all of them. For me, the locos seem to run at a reasonable speed right from the git-go, but after a few laps they begin to speed up. I prefer a moderate pace for my trains; don't like to see them racing around, it's not prototypical. So I throttle back until they are back to the slower speed that I like. 
But your point is certainly valid, and that's a really good way to check on one's power pack! And yes, since ALL of my engines exhibit the same phenomenon, it would have to be the power pack. Unless...as the train runs, its sliders (or pick-up skates, if you prefer) actually act as track cleaners, so there is more current available to the locomotive??? 
SandyR


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## Skip (Jan 2, 2008)

I have learned that too much lubrication in the axle bushings of locos that have bushing pickups (like my U-boats) will cause a lot of problems - slow action, lurching etc. Once flushed, the loco is fine again until the bushings get dirty again. One place to use the conductive lubes...


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## jimtronic (Apr 2, 2008)

Ok, I think I have some helpful results. 

1. I just received a new aristocraft Eggliner and when I set it loose it runs fine. Fast, steady on the up grades, and has no trouble pushing a little gondola. 

2. When I tried to run both trains on the track at the same time, things just did not work right. The trains went very slowly and would simply stop for periods before moving forward a little again. As soon as I took off the LGB 2-4-0 starter engine, the eggliner did great again. 

So, this would seem to eliminate a few possible problems because they would have had the same effect on the eggliner, right? 

- it can't be joint continuity 
- it can't be brass track cleanliness (i didn't even clean it tonight) 
- it can't be the grades 
- it doesn't seem to be voltage drop due to my long power cord 

In fact, it would seem to point straight at the lgb engine itself. The other night I did some tests on that engine. I turned the engine upside down and using small jumper wires, applied power to the pickups and it sped up quickly and whirred away nicely. Then I took the engine out to the trackside connections and applied power to the engine there. Again, slightly slower, but still fine. In both cases, it went slowly at first, but then sped up after a few seconds. That may be normal lgb behavior. 

Given all this above, I have three possible culprits: 
- for some reason when on the track, the pickups/wheels are not conducting properly. 
- there's something wrong with the innards of the engine that is preventing it from operating under any weight 
- something is wrong with the electronics that is causing a significant voltage drop. 

Thanks for all the help! I realize this is going on for much too long, but I'm hoping it will help someone else someday... 

For reference, here's my layout stats: 
75' of brass track, mix of aristo and lgb 
5-10' radius curves 
2-4% grades 
using aristo train engineer (not basic) using linear mode 
20v 1A lgb starter set controller


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim, you cannot expect that transformer to run both locos... In fact, you really should get another one, 1 amp is marginal on one loco... 

Try a larger capacity transformer, and then report back... 

Funny, none of us guessed this.... 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The Aristocraft train engineer even in linear mode has pulsed power internally and this is why the eggliner runs OK but the 2-4-0 does not as the 2-4-0 needs more current than the eggliner at low speeds due to the 5 volt internal regulator circuit for the smoke and lights. 

You need a good DC power source for the Train engineer, I suggest at least 3 amps at 20 volts for running the 2-4-0. Look at the Aristo Elite which can meet present and future needs.


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

I run one of the LGB 0-4-0 engines under the Christmas tree, and have for several years with Bachmman's cheap little power pack, runs fine, pulls several cars, will start slipping it's wheels before it stalls....


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The older 0-4-0 LGB engines without smoke and electronics will run great on the small Bachmann power pack. The newer 2-4-0 that comes with a tender, smoke, 5 volt lights needs more power than that supply can create, plus some of these have sound units.


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## jimtronic (Apr 2, 2008)

Hooray! My problem is finally solved. It was indeed a power supply inadequacy. I'm happy to say I'm sitting outside on a beautiful summer night, drinking wine, and watching my little black engine pull all four cars up and down the grades with no problems. 

I upgraded my starter set LGB power supply (20V 1A) to the MRC Power "G" (22V 10A). I chose the MRC instead of the Aristo Elite (recommended above) because I could get it locally and had read online that it worked well with the Crest Train Engineer and specifically LGB trains. 

Thanks for all the help. Sorry for not understanding electronics. 

Jim


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By jimtronic on 07/13/2008 8:07 PM
Hooray! My problem is finally solved. It was indeed a power supply inadequacy. I'm happy to say I'm sitting outside on a beautiful summer night, drinking wine, and watching my little black engine pull all four cars up and down the grades with no problems. 
I upgraded my starter set LGB power supply (20V 1A) to the MRC Power "G" (22V 10A). I chose the MRC instead of the Aristo Elite (recommended above) because I could get it locally and had read online that it worked well with the Crest Train Engineer and specifically LGB trains. 
Thanks for all the help. Sorry for not understanding electronics. 
Jim







I think I stated this solution on June 26th....better late then never. 

Bubba


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