# Hudson



## adlereins (Jan 4, 2008)

This one is going to get interesting! EvilBay Item number: 190697138182

Allen B.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Now that I have finished LAUGHING!!! I am in the first stages of building a live steam version of the NYC J3A with the streamlining in Gauge '3'. At the moment my expected build cost is circa £750 = $1,200... 

http://www.cabbagepatchrailway.co.uk/464pic5.png 

regards 

ralph


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe I am being dense, but why are you laughing Ralph? For what he is offering, the 2k bid is reasonable.. 

Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok -I will explain it simply for you... 

The completed NYC J3a will be 133cm long in Gauge '3' scale. 
It will be made of brass and steel -not injection moulded plastic. 
It will be live steam -not electric motors. 
The build cost will be US$1,200 -not US$2,000+... 

So, the completed loco will be 135% larger, made of metal, run like the original -and be 40% cheaper. 

Now do you understand(?) 

regards 

ralph


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yeah, you are comparing the raw materials cost of something you are building with a production piece. 

silly... 

Greg


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

and the USA Hudson is die cast metal, not plastic, extremely finely detailed and a very fine piece. Pricey, but a good price for what it is. 

David.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I dont understand the point of the original post in the first place.. 
I dont understand why "this is going to get interesting".. 
and I also dont understand why Ralph is laughing.. 
this entire thread makes little sense..its just an average, unremarkable ebay auction.. 

Scot


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok Scott I will explain further. 

There are a group of ten people building their own NYC J3a all over the world. The sum cost to build these ten models is £7,500. This gives each "partner" in the syndicate a bill of £750. As in the construction of the "Nautilus" each member of the syndicate produces ten of the parts required for the complete loco. The copper water tube boiler is TIG welded in Abingdon England. The body work is being rolled on an "english wheel" by a guy in Birdwood South Australia. The on board electronics and FIG-FORTH programming of the PICs is being done in Derby UK. The wheels and Baker valve gear are from Pacific Loco Works. Other parts are being RepRapped in a cellar on the south side of Medicine Hat -for casting in Chatsworth New Jersey... The steam motors are being made by a member in Napier NZ. Each member of the syndicate makes what they are best at. 

I am laughing because my loco and her nine sisters will each have part of me and the other nine in them. 

regards 

ralph


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

It is great when a few talented people can band together to utilize each others best efforts to produce such a thing. My problem is that the only things I could add to such a project is that my best efforts are at "making a mess" and "making mistakes". So I feel that the group would request a bit more cash out of my pocket as offset for my "contributions". When you figure in the man hours put forth by the individuals in the group the cost is considerably higher and the item for sale on E-bay has to recoup that part of the manufacturing cost.

My sister collects brass object d'art and saw some of the small brass bells I have made. She requested that I make one for her. She is a pretty nice sister so I have started making one. I am turning it from a solid brass bar about 2.5 inches in diameter and 3 inches long. The raw stock weighs about 3 pounds... the semi-finished bell now weighs 8.5 ounces (a bit over 1/2 pound so about 80% of the stock is in chips on the floor). I purchased the brass bar several years ago when brass was about 85 cents per pound so the bell has about $2.55 worth of brass, and I am attaching a faceted crystal (chandelier bauble) as a handle that cost me $5.35. 

So far I have spent about 15 hours twiddling with the knobs on the lathe to cut away all the brass that doesn't look like a bell and I have yet to make the clapper hanger and the method of attaching the handle (still working on HOW to do that). I figure I have another 4 or 5 hours in that work. Then I need to spend time polishing the brass to a mirror finish. That'll be another 3 or 4 hours. So I will have a total of 22 to 24 hours of manual labor. I am sure a fine machinist could turn a bell out in just an hour or two, but I will never sully the "Machinist" profession by applying the name to me.

Apply some minor wage to my time, say $5 per hour, and I would have to charge my sister $122.90 (if I wasn't such a nice guy doing it just because I like my sister). I am sure the people in your syndicate are worthy of much greater salaries than a home shop fool like me. Even if they can work faster as well as smarter, the cost of the manufacturing of the items would be much more than the cost of the materials.

One more point... your syndicate members are producing 10 identical parts... I have yet to make TWO identical parts! (I made 6 train wheels (3 axles) and when assembled to a chassis I could not get more than 3 to touch the rails at a time.)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So what does your personal steam loco have to do with the ebay auction of an electric USA trains hudson? 

And what does the cost of your personal steam loco have to do with said auction? 

And what does the laughing part have to do with said auction? 

In other words, your post had nothing to do with the topic, and you managed to mislead people by putting the "price" of your loco in which is a parts cost not the much higher cost of a finished product. 

(and why is this laughable: "I am laughing because my loco and her nine sisters will each have part of me and the other nine in them" --- have you implanted a small tape recorder playing jokes in the cab of the loco???) 

You are not explaining anything at all except that you wanted some personal "air time".... 

(and issued your statements like some of your other posts - condescendingly: "now class attention", "i will explain it simply") 

(If you want to dish it out to others, you gotta be able to take it yourself) 

Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

1: So what does your personal steam loco have to do with the ebay auction of an electric USA trains hudson? 
This is a mass produced item. I am a modeller i.e. I make models. 

2:And what does the cost of your personal steam loco have to do with said auction? 
It will be in my view superior in that it is a true steam engine, with on board control systems. It is technically far more advanced loco and cheaper than the one on E-Bay. 

3:And what does the laughing part have to do with said auction? 
Being a Rhodesian I am somewhat cautious with my money. US$2,000 for a model when the original was sold for less than that as scrap -positively HYSTERICAL. 

4:In other words, your post had nothing to do with the topic, and you managed to mislead people by putting the "price" of your loco in which is a parts cost not the much higher cost of a finished product. 
No, £7,500 is the cost of the ten locos *finished and shipped to each member of the syndicate*. This is up and coming trend amoungst modellers. It is becoming accepted that "not everybody can do everything". Since the labor is free the only real cost is the shipping. Each member of the syndicate draws their cost from central fund (Swiss Francs) and the completed batch of parts shipped to the member charged with construction (just outside of Cork I.R). 

5and why is this laughable: "I am laughing because my loco and her nine sisters will each have part of me and the other nine in them" --- have you implanted a small tape recorder playing jokes in the cab of the loco???) 
For the same reason my brothers DB8 has a plate on the engine "This Engine assembled by James Fairchild". Each member has a place to mark the model with their seal. Thus the model contains a part of them carried with them. It is not a "soulless piece of metal". Mine is on the PCB for the main traction feedback to boiler. No, I have not implanted a tape recorder a ten inch NAB spool would ruin the looks. 

6:You are not explaining anything at all except that you wanted some personal "air time".... 
So, what am I doing now? No, I don't need personal air time -*I have a web site for that*. Though don't feel the need to constantly remind everybody of it.... 

7and issued your statements like some of your other posts - condescendingly: "now class attention", "i will explain it simply") 
Well I am a former teacher -some habits take a lifetime to fall away. I am used to operating in a multi lingual society. Some words do not translate easily or the "map" of the language is different -so simple is better. Highly technical explanations are a problem in that unless the person involved have a knowledge of Greek and Latin -words get mangled. I only use my full list when I am authoring a paper. 

8If you want to dish it out to others, you gotta be able to take it yourself) 
I am so glad you see it that way. In the "English Manner" I give all my locos name plates. I have ordered the name plate OSMIUM for it. 

Yours Respectfully 

R.Brades B.Ed B.Sc M.Sc M.I.A.A.P. Ph.D.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, I do thank you for your response, it gives me a complete calibration. I do understand the logic of each part now, although #3 can be true for many things, given enough time, most all items have little scrap value. 

SMFH 

Greg


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