# MTH F3's and Aristo Cars



## TundraSpyder (Jun 9, 2015)

New here, and starting a garden railroad around my pool.

Anyone have a photo of the MTH 1 guage F3/F7 with aristocraft cars?

I know the scales are different, but I wanted to know how far off they are?

thanks


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't have a picture, but the loco will look tiny.

Greg


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Tundra,
Welcome to MLS.
Are you talking about the Aristocraft Heavyweight cars?
If so, I think that you can probably get away with it.
The F3 is 3 3/4" wide x 5 1/4" high, and the Heavyweight about 4 1/4" wide x 5 1/2" high.
From one web site I found the following statement about the Heavyweights.
It says "They also look good with the MTH 1:32 stuff"
Oh! It's Greg's site!!!
I know several people who run them with Aster 1/32 live steam locomotives, and they don't look too large.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Its a subjective personal call on whether they "look ok" together or not..
IMO, its not even close.. I don't think they look good together at all..
the size difference is too extreme and they simply dont match:










full size drawing:
http://scotlawrence.smugmug.com/photos/i-vnWdcn8/0/O/i-vnWdcn8.jpg


Scot


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

We are assuming that you are talking about the Aristo heavyweights. If you are talking about a different type of car please clarify.

It might work if you separated the engines from the heavyweights with one or two 1:32 headend freight (REA) or express cars. 
Everyone has an image in their mind how a train should look. Scott's first illustration shows how they should line up. Express cars would break up the expected line and wouldn't make the height difference between the heavy weights and the engines that noticeable.

I vaguely remember that someone a while back said that the heavy weights were based on Central of New Jersy cars and that those cars were a little shorter than standard heavyweights at the time. This might make the cars, lengthwise suitable for a 1:32 train.

I have the heavy weights, but I don't have access to any 1:32 stuff to see how they look as a train with some headend express freight cars.

Just a thought.

Chuck

Scott, can you put a 1:32 REA car (box car or a reefer) in your second picture?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Scot,
I'm not quite sure what you based the scale of your drawing on, but as I pointed out, there 'should' only be a difference of about 1/4" in height between the MTH F3 and the Aristo Heavyweight.
Measuring your drawing, it shows more like 1/2" difference.
Now, I know that these are not drawings of the actual models, but I think that the height difference might show up less than you have shown.
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Tundra, if they look okay to you, that is all that counts.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

David Leech said:


> Scot,
> I'm not quite sure what you based the scale of your drawing on, but as I pointed out, there 'should' only be a difference of about 1/4" in height between the MTH F3 and the Aristo Heavyweight.
> Measuring your drawing, it shows more like 1/2" difference.
> Now, I know that these are not drawings of the actual models, but I think that the height difference might show up less than you have shown.
> ...


I based the drawing on prototype measurements. F-unit heights vary slightly, I have seen 14' 0.5" and 14' 1.5", to the top of the roofline, not counting horns and fans..the height of the heavyweight roof is 14' even.

14 feet in 1/29 scale is 5.79"
14 feet in 1/32 scale is 5.25"
(the 0.5" or 1.5" of additional prototype height wont make any meaningfully difference)

Thats a difference of over 1/2 inch between 1/29 and 1/32 scale, not 1/4 inch.

im confidant my drawing is accurate! 
If you measure from the top of the F-unit fans, you might get the 1/4 inch difference..
but its a full half inch difference from the main rooflines.
and a full half inch height difference between 1/29 and 1/32 scales.

Scot


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

TundraSpyder said:


> New here, and starting a garden railroad around my pool.
> 
> Anyone have a photo of the MTH 1 guage F3/F7 with aristocraft cars?
> 
> ...


I agree with Jerry, 

"Tundra, if they look okay to you, that is all that counts."

I understand your question - you want to see for yourself how they look together.

I don't have an MTH F3/F7 but I do have an MTH Hudson and MTH passenger coaches plus some Aristo Heavyweights. I could take and post photos of them together if that would help. 

Couplers are considerably different but I have not tried coupling MTH & Aristo-Craft hook & loops or knuckle couplers. Do you have a coupler preference?

Jerry


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Scot,
What I was trying to point out was that whilst you based your measurements on the 'real' thing, the models are not necessarily to scale.
My Heavyweight is only 5.62" tall.
The 5 1/4" for the MTH unit was from their catalogue, so I assume if to be correct, but it may not!
Also, I wonder if you have an A and a B unit, whether it would look different?
As Jerry says, if they look okay, then that's fine.
Regards,
David


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

David Leech said:


> Hi Scot,
> What I was trying to point out was that whilst you based your measurements on the 'real' thing, the models are not necessarily to scale.


maybe..
although it is believed that Aristo and MTH are both quite accurate as to dimensions and scale..
but even if our measurements are slightly different, I dont think that impacts the overall "look" very much at all..

Scot


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

This might help a bit:

MTH coaches with MTH caboose on one side and Aristo caboose on the other side - then LGB coach.








Aristo Heavyweights next to LGB coaches:








Aristo Heavyweights are clearly smaller than LGB European coaches and closer in size to MTH coaches. I don't think either the Aristo Heavyweights nor the MTH coaches are really "to scale" because the MTH coaches are Rail King (Premier is not available in G Gauge).

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you put the MTH 1:32 passenger cars next to the Aristo 1:29 passenger cars?

We know that the MTH cars will look "right" next to the MTH passenger cars... so if the Aristo's are close to the MTH's, then that can answer the question.

(assuming that the OP was asking abotu Aristo passenger cars, and the heavyweights... we actually are all GUESSING here until the OP confirms)

(Notice the OP has only made ONE post total on the entire forum)

Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> (assuming that the OP was asking abotu Aristo passenger cars, and the heavyweights... we actually are all GUESSING here until the OP confirms)
> 
> (Notice the OP has only made ONE post total on the entire forum)
> 
> Greg


Its also been less than 24 hours since that first post..
I dont think we need to jump on him about that quite yet.

Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You are right Scot, we are indeed a bunch of eager beavers!

Well, it's nice a newbie gets lots of responses right away!

Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

yeah, its always nice to see so much talk on a newbie question so quickly..
sometimes that can be 'information overload", but its usually better to have too much info than not enough.

Scot


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I did not see that he specified pass or freight. If it looks good to you then it's good. Later RJD


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## line_engine (Jul 11, 2012)

*MTH F3 vs Aristo streamline*

A friend was going to purchase and asked the same question. Picture gives a good idea of how they differ. Hope this helps. New here so I hope the pic shows up. 

line_engine


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, Aristo streamliners with MTH F units no good... same with Aristo 1:29 box cars and MTH F units.

MTH F units and Aristo heavyweights might not be too bad, and Aristo heavyweights with MTH Big Boy did not look bad either.

Again, we are speculating wildly, so we need the OP to come in and further define the question.

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The Aristo stream liners can be lowered to where they are the same height as the USAT cars and the Aristo heavyweights. This makes a big difference in the overall look.










Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's right, just by sliding out the floor and sliding it in "lower" (actually higher in the shell).

Well, if Tundraspyder reappears, we'll have lots of info for him.

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

I did it by using a different bolster(?) plate between the truck and the bottom of the car. Someone's son, I think, made and sold them a number of years ago. They are significantly thinner than the original plate.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, George Schryer designed them, and his son cast them.

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like a potential 3-D printer project. Unless everyone has already lowered them.

Chuck


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## TundraSpyder (Jun 9, 2015)

Wow, such response and so quickly. I am sorry for the delay in replying. 

I decided to hold off at they were the aristo Streamline cars. Had they been next to a GP or a different engine it would have looked ok, but next to a covered wagon, they were way off. Or if the engines were bigger than the cars would be ok, but not the cars bigger than the engine. 

A buddy has this set pulled by an ABBA LGB power train, and they look and sound awesome together. 

Oh well. 

The Caboose photo was a real eye opener as well, thank you for that. 

Again sorry for the delay…

TS


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

TundraSpyder said:


> The Caboose photo was a real eye opener as well, thank you for that.


Speaking of caboose photos... 

Here is a photo I took years ago of some cabooses to show the difference in scales within G "Large" Scale:








Jerry

OK. I cheated. The bottom left is O Gauge. 

This is an actual photo with no tricks. The MTH and LGB really are that different.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

For what it is worth, I regularly pull Aristo-Craft Streamliners with Aristo E-8's (these replaced Aristo F-1ABBA's) or I use USAT F3-ABA's. A friend used to pull his with LGB F7ABBA's.

Aristo Heavyweights are pulled by LGB Mikados which swap out with LGB F7ABBA's.

I find the Aristo, USAT and LGB covered wagons look good (to me) with Aristo Streamliners. It might make a difference in that my Streamliners are original rather than newer (I think) lowered Streamliners.

In my case I just pull the MTH coaches with an MTH Hudson, Challengers or Big Boy.

It really does depend on individual preferences. If you look at old photos Mikados etc. were just wheel arrangements and they came in many sizes.

One of my favorite locos is the LGB F7 See-Thru but who ever saw a see-through locomotive?








How does one measure scale anyway? True scale can be important or unimportant depending on personal opinions and perspectives. I'm the guy on the left. Someone took the photo years ago at Diamondhead and sent it to me.

Cheers,

Jerry


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## TundraSpyder (Jun 9, 2015)

True Jerry, and this "scale" seems to allow certain flexiblities not award other scales. So the result is for me if it looks good together, go for it.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*Aristo Lowered Streamliners, Compare, etc.*

I lowered the Aristo Streamliner and Smoothside cars using replacement truck bolsters of my own design. 

Shown below is how the lowered Streamline car looks on the left and the original factory Streamliner car looks on the right.











Shown below is how the lowered Smoothside car looks on the left and the original factory Smoothside car looks on the right.










To lower the cars,what I describe in an article as the Basic Type bolster with nylon ball bearings is the easiest to make. 
For all full info., see article hosted for me by Greg E. on his Web site:
"Aristo Streamliners - Lowering & Body Mounting Kadee 907 Centerset Couplers"


-Ted


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