# Binfordizing Drive train



## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

I am looking into giving my 4-6-0 Big Hauler a bigger motor and gear train. At the moment it has a 12v motor and I would like to put a 24v motor. I also want to replace the gears with steel ones.

I am not sure why they put a 12v motor in it when the power supply pumps out 24v? Makes no sense to me. Anyone know why? 


Has anyone done this modification?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

So I'm guessing binfordizing is a process that makes the drive train invisible?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Excellent job. Totally invisible. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

*More power!*


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Torby can't you see that it already has too much power !


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Which drive train do you want to censor? Is it emitting foul or pornographic language or images?

http://mediaverse-memphis.blogspot.com/2008/05/on-being-binfordized.html

Regards, Greg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ach, ya canna see that the wee beastie is already pushing the limits of warp technology! The Capt. asked for "full speed maximum warp" and the ol' girl flew straight into a time warp!! I canna be sure but due to the restrictions placed upon the warp field by the number of dilithium crystals in the matrix, she should be reappearing sometime tomorrow.... That's the closest estimate I can give ya without hav'n seen the feild flux read'ns before she disappeared but isn't she a bonnie piece of work!! Aye....and completely invisible without a Cloaking Device!!


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

Wow did I ever choose the wrong words for this thread. Sorry to have caused such a rant. I was referring to a Tim The Tool man catch phase. where he always has to modify something to make it more powerful. For some reason the body of my thread did not upload so I edited it for you all.


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 02/04/2009 5:04 PM
Ach, ya canna see that the wee beastie is already pushing the limits of warp technology! The Capt. asked for "full speed maximum warp" and the ol' girl flew straight into a time warp!! I canna be sure but due to the restrictions placed upon the warp field by the number of dilithium crystals in the matrix, she should be reappearing sometime tomorrow.... That's the closest estimate I can give ya without hav'n seen the feild flux read'ns before she disappeared but isn't she a bonnie piece of work!! Aye....and completely invisible without a Cloaking Device!! 





Obviously, Mr Scott, logic would show that you have mearly overloaded the Hisenberg compensators. Once the warp field decays your "Bonnie Lass" should be visible once again.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

I would think the simple answer is getting a Barry’s Big Trains drive; apparently they will pull a brick from a house. 

Maybe you could purchase a gear box and a motor from Accucraft, they have a few listed on there website http://www.accucraft.com/index.php?categoryID=41 but it’s probably easier to go with the BBT drive as it’s a drop in replacement.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There really is such a thing as Binfordizing something... funny thing that Tim TTM used such a phrase incorrectly. 

Google can be fun! 

Greg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Entirely possible that he didn't choose the name "Binford" by mistake


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

A $300 BBT drive is not an option. I am sure I can make it myself for less that $50. I have more skills than money. 

No one has yet answered my original questions.


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a bunch of like new pittmann 19v motors of a suitable size for Big haulers or other large scale locos. These are not gear head units , but are direct single shaft output- suitable for use with a normal gearbox. Cheap. Contact off list if interested. 

jonathan/ 
EMW


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Maybe some who is handy with a lathe and mill could knock you up some gears? 

Do NWSL do custom gears? Maybe drop them an email. 

Now this is a bit more of an out there solution. Could you mount a second gear box in the chassis? Then power it with a double shaft motor, essentially like an LGB loco. 

I think someone on this forum could set you up with a cheap unwanted Big Hauler gear box.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay, now we have something to work with!








A lot depends on what kind of gearing you have. Go to George Schreyer's website and read up on the different versions of the Big Hauler. Then, do a "search" on everything you can find here (and in the archives) about Barry Olson and BBT. He had some really informative threads about the development of his drivetrains. As to 24v Pittman Motors, go to Accucraft's website and look under accessories. They have replacement motors for K-28's which are 24v. As far as why they use nylon gearing with a double worm drive, it's for sound reduction in part. The early 2nd gen. Big Hauler (the first with track power) was _loud! _(I know, I had one.) Bachmann has improved the drivetrain until it's now pretty reliable and relatively quiet.


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

First, I rather doubt that the Bachmann Big Hauler motor is 12v. More than likely 18 to 20v. I would suggest that you match you motor voltage to the voltage available from your power pack or less.


You won't need to make your gears, I buy my many of my gears from Stock drive in NY. I specify brass hubs with an acetal gear face. Boston Gear also makes good gears similar to Stock Drive.


I have my worms custom made, but Stock Drive has the necessary worms. Specify double thread worms and worm gears to 

avoid surging on downgrades. I recommend 32 pitch gears and worms. The best overall gear ratio is 30:1 although 40:1 is a lot of fun
especially in switching and yard work.

Bachmann's biggest problem in their Plus drives (the one between the battery powered, first track powered and the current fifth generation)

was that the motor moved. The gear were fine, but the motor moved and started chewing on the gears. To fix the Plus units, simply run a hefty
wire tie strip down past the loco weight around the motor, back up past the weight again, thread the tie together as tightly as possible. That will allow
you a long life on your loco. If I can be of any help to, just ask.

Barry - BBT


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

I pretty well completely rebuilt a Bachmann Big hauler and turned a sow's ear into a silk purse. I used a ballbearing Pittman motor and running on 14v has plenty of power with a 14:1 (maybe 25:1 ?) worm drive. I found it very important to use the ball bearing version of the worm drive from Pacific Northwest engineering, because the high thrust forces on the worm shaft would wear out (bore a hole through) the plastic case with just a greased brass bearing. It was also necessary to pin with small nails all of the wheels on the axels so that they wouldn't slip and go out of quarter. These are the original plastic wheels with rubber traction tires, and I am not very well satisfied with them, because the poor shape of the sharp flanges tend to derail too easily. Maybe metal wheels with better shaped flanges (rounded flange with a rounded fillet similar to RP-25 standard) would do better. I tried to let the front wheel pivot to give some equalization but that didn't seem to help much. There is added weight on the drivers with a battery pack in the boiler.


I'm still futzing with this thing. I think that getting a locomotive to pull well and to stay on the track is as much an art as a science. I have heard alot of good about BBT drives, which means to me that Barry has spent alot of effort getting the drive to work right.

A long time ago the NMRA set 12v as the standard for model railroading, but that was for O and HO scale modeling. Basically LGB set 18 volts as the standard for G scale. I don't know why some large scale models have been made with 24 volt motors, but the higher voltage on the transformer can help for better running with dirty track.

Terl


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## david bunn (Jan 4, 2008)

Just remember what happened to all of Tims efforts in applying more power!!!!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I just want to note for the sake of posterity that when this thread first appeared there was nothing in the original post--which is why the comments about invisibility. Then, a couple days later the entire thread seemed to vanish. When it reappeared, the first post was suddenly visible. 

Fascinating thread, thanks all


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, it seemed at first as though the subject matter itself was Binfordized! 

Greg


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

I am truly amazed by this thread. I got the nexus with Binford and the drive. I also appreciate the flow of information youse guys offer, but the thing that impressed me the most was Barry's post. I have an Annie, which I fret over being robust in the long haul. I have been to Barry's web site and have drooled over his products. Barry's sharing of information here is beyond commendable. Barry, you da' man! To share your sourcing and processes is to me incredibly big hearted. I am sure we all at some point could modify our drives, but when my time comes for my motive power, Barry is going to get all my business. Thank you!


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

I really don't mind sharing what is and what can be done. My sources are not a secret, but there are some things which I don't share. I couple of years ago a guy called me and asked if he could just buy the parts; i.e.,gears, motor axles, etc. I said of course and gave him some prices. He called back a few days later and explained to me that he had a friend with a machine shop and he would have him do my frame, axles, etc. would I send him my drawings. Needless to say, NO and he hasn't called back. 




Giving information is what I have done since my beginning in the hobby, the thought is to better the hobby. Some years ago I was talking with Dick Maddox when he was at Bachmann. After telling me that Bachmann was going to be offering their new metal wheels in sets of four for the replacement market, what did I think would be a fair price?


I first had to ask if this was the MSRP price or what they would be sold for, he said the selling price. I said MSRP at $15.00 per set of four axles and sell for $12.00. I then asked how much they could sell them for. He said probably a dollar an axle, but they didn't want to hurt the hobby. That concern impressed me and made me feel like I had been doing the right thing all along. There is no point in hurting a competitor, there is enough to go around.




Barry - BBT


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