# Crusher Fines Questions



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Ok, this is a weird question. I'll try to break it down into parts.

I need some crusher fines (called "slurry" by my local quarry: http://www.luckstone.com/locations/vamd.php. It also goes by quarter-minus, magic dust, and about a dozen or so names. It's used for laying sewer pipes and subbase for roads. Anyway...

I've had some experience floating track, but over the years, it's mysteriously disappeared into the ground (it just gets sucked away somehow) so I need to buy more because my stash is gone. I just called the quarry and asked if I could purchase half a load. Why half a load?

A load would be probably too much for what I need and, my Tacoma pickup's springs would get sprung. But no, they only sell by the load for $30. Which isn't a bad price! (but used to be $20). 

Anyway, I probably will make 2 trips (the quarry already agreed to this) and get the full load. But what to do with it all?

Besides track ballast, I have a gravel pit industry I want to construct. (Got the idea from Brian, aka Allterrain, a fellow 7/8 modeler on this forum). A big gravel industry, actually. But I'm anticipating there will be some left over.

Now the question:

Most of my "soil" around the yard front and back where grass grows, consists of clay.

If I were to evenly spread the crusher fines around on the grass, would it act as a "clay breaker"? Or, would it make the yard even less amenable to grass and more amenable to weeds?

I'm trying to kill 2 birds with 1 stone; getting the crusher fines for the trains and improving my pathetic yard. This would also quell the wife when she sees huge piles of crusher in the backyard (she's out of town that day).


Oh, and btw, I'll take photos of the quarry and stuff and post them.

Thanks!

Dave V.


----------



## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

I'm no expert but I don't think it would make much of a difference in your lifetime. It just won't break down that quick. If you want a better yard add about 6 inches of topsoil to your yard and replant the grass. 
As for the excess crusher fines, I would put aside for a rainy day or project. As soon as you get rid of it you'll find a purpose for it, Murphy's Law will take over. 
Steve


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I know it won't break down but I'm thinking that if it disappeared into the ground on my layout, it might do the same in my yard, as long as it's only less than a quarter inch (I could even use the handpush spreader to distribute it). My theory is that once it works its way into the clay, it will sort of allow more air or rain to penetrate. Right now, weeds pretty much rule.


----------



## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

I think your idea will work. I guess I don't understand the time frame. It will probably take years to make a difference unless you till the crusher fines into the soil. I have found in Oklahoma clay you can spread grass and leaf clippings on your yard. They break down and act as a mulch to hold moisture and allow the grass to grow in. Helps the weeds too but that is what weed killer is for. 
I look forward to your quarry pics. 
Steve


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks Steve. Each fall my wife bugs me to rack the leaves. When she's not looking, I mow them into mulch and let them lay. It doesn't seem to have noticeably improved the ground. I've also hauled in topsoil. Darned clay!

I'll probably post my photos in the track section. I don't think we have a section for industries in the forum, e.g. gravel industries.

Dave Vergun


----------



## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

Make a trip up to Sisler's Stone in Falls Church. You can get various gravels by the bag. 
http://www.sislersstone.com/Crushed_Stone.htm 

Putting strips of landscape cloth (spun nylon or polyester) underneath will stop your gravel from disappearing. 

-Brian 

btw - that's alt - terrain (short for alternative terrain, my biz)


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

thanks, sorry for the misspelling (the letters blended together on my screen and my eyes aren't good).


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

You may want to think about using this extra to define "foot-paths" for railroad and viewing access. If you put weed cloth under your ballast, it will not disappear into the soil.


----------



## Joe McGarry (Jan 4, 2008)

Just a thought on spreading gravel / crusher fines on clay soil. I have a feeling the gravel would combine with the clay and form a mass similar to concrete.
Most gardening books recommend adding organic material to clay to loosen it up and improve drainage.

Keep us posted on how you progress with this

Joe McGarry


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

What you also need to mindful of is that some of this stuff has metal in it and you should take a magnet with you to test it before you buy it, you dont want to lay it then find out you train motors have metal rocks attached to them? ASK ME HOW I KNOW?????????
LESSON LEARNED the hard way........


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I always buy more rock than I need as it's cheaper in the long run. Whats left over I have built a storage type bin to hold the extra rock. Its located at the very edge of my lawn in the back yard. Never notice its there unless you really look. Sure comes in handy when I need to do some resurfacing of track once in a while. Later RJD


----------



## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 17 Dec 2009 12:51 PM 
What you also need to mindful of is that some of this stuff has metal in it and you should take a magnet with you to test it before you buy it, you dont want to lay it then find out you train motors have metal rocks attached to them? ASK ME HOW I KNOW?????????
LESSON LEARNED the hard way........





The local gravel here is bluestone limestone and is quite magnetically inert. No worries.

-Brian


----------



## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 17 Dec 2009 01:13 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 17 Dec 2009 12:51 PM 
What you also need to mindful of is that some of this stuff has metal in it and you should take a magnet with you to test it before you buy it, you dont want to lay it then find out you train motors have metal rocks attached to them? ASK ME HOW I KNOW?????????
LESSON LEARNED the hard way........





The local gravel here is bluestone limestone and is quite magnetically inert. No worries.

-Brian


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks all. I can't recall, but I think our crusher is made from granite. I don't use power to rails in any case. I may just get a truckload and try and hide what I don't use from my wife behind the mulch pile. Don't tell anyone please.


----------



## docwatsonva (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd like to add a comment based on my experience using crusher fines over a period of 10 years.

I believe that crusher fines don't necessarily disappear into the soil. What I think really happens is that, over a period of time (rain and all), the fines work their way under the ties and actually lift the track (frost heave contributes a little). When I built my first layout, I used landscape timbers as edging for the raised part of the layout. I laid the track on about a 3 inch layer of fines. At first, the top of the rails were about 3 inches lower than the top of the timber. After about 5 years, the top of the rail was about 1 inch higher than the timber.

I generally added more fines at the beginning of each season as part of the routine maintenance schedule.

BTW, I prefer letting my track float on crusher fines.

Doc


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Doc, I don't know. Mine just seems to disappear and the tracks don't get any higher. In any case, they're forecasting a foot of snow and I will probably be too snowed in to do anything. Anything over an inch in Washington DC area halts traffic.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

they only sell by the load for $30. 
You could pay the $30 and only take half of it. 

I got my landscaper to drop off 1/2 a load - he used it for path bases, etc.


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

We had a lawn service for a while come out and do all the grass stuff. I mowed it, but they put something down on it and aerated it once a year. Our soil is mostly clay here. I put down some rhyolite we had left over from a grinding test a few years back. Not sure if it did anything much. Green stuff grows. You can buy pellet lime and put that down to help sweeten the soil. Most of the old retired guys have nothing to do, so they mow their lawns every other day. Drives MB nuts! I mow once a week, or 10 days, if I can get away with it. Stupid grass! I'd rather have a huge garden railroad.

Limestone breaks down and dissolves in water over time. That's why we who use the floating ballast technique using limestone must replace stone every year. It is strange your quarry calls their crusher fines 'slurry'. Everyone else refers to a water/stone mixture as slurry.


----------



## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

I always have a pile of crusher fines out back for repair just like the real railroads. There are always places that need to be re-ballated on my layout, so none ever goes to waste. I have also used it to make gravel roads and parking lots when mixed with mortar mix to hold it in place.


----------



## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Mark

Limestone will not dissolve in water of normal acidity, at least not in our lifetime. Many limestones have thin layers of clay or shale interbedded with the lime layers. The clays may hydrate and dissasociate the chip making it appear the limestone has dissolved.

Rhyolite is an extrusive igneous rock with the same chemical composition of granite but without the large crystals. It too will not dissolved in water nor will it act as a soil amendment.

The best way to loosen a heavy clay soil is to add orgnaic material, lots of it. A bit of sand could be added wit the organic material but adding onlyl sand will only yield an adobe which is not much better than a heavy clay soil. Some gardeners add powdered gypsum and/or vermilculite as a soil amendment.


----------



## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 18 Dec 2009 08:50 AM 
Limestone breaks down and dissolves in water over time. That's why we who use the floating ballast technique using limestone must replace stone every year. It is strange your quarry calls their crusher fines 'slurry'. Everyone else refers to a water/stone mixture as slurry.




Ditto that on dissolving limestone. Much of the gravel and flagstone found in the mid Atlantic is blue stone a type of lime stone. Plus many famous buildings are built of limestone from Indiana including the Empire State building, the Pentagon and many of the federal buildings in downtown DC.
That is odd about them calling in a slurry. Must be a Virginny thing. Coal is also loaded into hoppers as a slurry these days.


-Brian


----------

