# Aluminum track



## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

Hey guys, I've been searching for track to expand my layout and would love to stick with LGB or Aristo brass track but the price is too expensive for a larger layout. The cheapest I have been able to find is $6.50/ft. I've come accross the Llagas track, how does that hold up to the elements? Also, how often do you need to run the cleaner train to keep the track nice and conductive? I'm running track power and maybe some day down the road might make the jump to battery.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Isn't the Llagas track .250 high? If you are set on aluminum, you might look at Aristo's new aluminum track as it is the same height as their brass track, .332. That would make it a little more rugged.

Ed


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I have run on many live steam tracks with 250 aluminum rail, It seems to hold up well.


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## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

I just looked at the AristoCraft site and the price is definately doable. My biggest concern is how does the alumnum track compare to the brass track in terms of conductivity as I run track power. Does it need to be cleaned more than brass and how is it as far as expanding and shrinking during extreme temperatures?


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

The conductivity of Aluminium is slightly less than that of Copper. It is used for power lines on the National Grid... The toroidal transformers that I use in my designs now have Aluminium windings rather than Copper, this makes then lighter and cheaper. The Oxide layer on Aluminium is very tough and simple sweeping will be all that is required for cleaning. As to the, "extremes of temperature", I can only say that the system installed just north of Reykjavík in October is still working well at 180 Degrees C -its normal operating temperature(!) 

regards

ralph


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

The conductivity of aluminum is less than copper, but better than brass or stainless steel.
Ralph


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's not the conductivity of the metal, the differences are pretty trivial in the core metals, it's the resistance of connections and joints between rails, and removing the oxide on the rail head. 

I was reading this thread, and was worried that no one caught on to the track power requirement. 

The fact is that aluminum may need "oxidation removal" (track cleaning is not a sufficient term, you can have clean, oxidized track, and your trains won't run) much more severe that using a car with a rubber block. You may need a track cleaning car or pole with fine sandpaper. 

That's just a maintenance item, which may be no more often than brass outdoors. 

But, the oxidation in the joints between rails could be a problem. There are a few people with few problems, but by and large, you may have problems unless you use antioxidation grease (Alox is good, get from home depot), and rail clamps. 

For track power, I do not think this is a good choice unless you really have to trade cost for more maintenance and repair. 

In my mind, the track is pretty much a one time cost and foundation of your layout. Trying to save a buck normally costs you more in enjoyment in the long run. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Not sure how germane this is to the topic- 
I am no track power expert, in fact I now run exclusively battery power. But when I first ventured into large scale and put track in my basement I was running with track power-aluminum rail spiked to wood ties with home made brass channel rail joiners. As it happened the layout fell into disuse for a couple of years. One day I decided to run my Lehmann Porter around to see if things still worked. I didn't clean anything, I just plugged in the my homemade power supply/controller, put the Porter on the track and off it went, albeit with a bit of sparking, but never a "hitch in its giddy-up". 
I never had any trouble with aluminum rail. Now my stuff is inside but the aluminum rail worked fine. I also didn't have any problems with the brass joiners in contact with the aluminum (isn't there something about unlike metals corroding each other??). I think the biggest hinerance to large scale is indeed the cost of track. If the manufacturers/supplers were really smart they'd drop the price of track and get a lot of people hooked on large scale. 
Dave


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Aluminum rail seems to be the "you pays your money and takes your chances" rail material when it comes to running track power. Some folks have had fantastic luck with it. We ran it for the first 4 or 5 years of my dad's Woodland Railway without any trouble at all, just the occasional cleaning (more to get pine sap off the rails than anything else). Even 15 years after the last electrons flowed, we could still muster enough conductivity to run track power for the videos that came with Bachmann's early 1:20 stuff. The limitations wasn't the rail--a quick once-over with a scotchbrite pad cleaned things up nicely--but the joints. Many had corroded to the point where they held the rails together, but didn't pass electrons. Others' experiences weren't quite so positive. I don't know what the differences were. 

Personally, I'd have no trouble recommending it, but I'd want to use stainless steel joiners with a stainless steel screw through the base of the rail. (That's cheaper than stainless rail clamps, which would all but offset any cost savings you'd get using aluminum. I'd probably look for cheaper sources of brass rail if possible first. Perhaps Accucraft's code 332? I don't know what that's going for per foot, but when I built my railroad, their code 250 brass worked out to be cheaper than Llagas' aluminum. 

Later, 

K


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Keep going guys This is interesting.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

So is there anyone in Florida where humidity is so bad, using Aluminum rail outside with track power? 

Greg, with all the rain in Florida, how does the Alox do as far as getting washed away? 

I'm planning to have an elevated layout so Aluminum sounds like a great option if the oxidation isn't a big problem. 

I guess I need to buy a pc of Alum track and set it outside to see how it holds up. 

Randy


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

One suggestion would be, do not use stainless in contact with aluminum. The contact areas exposed corrode quickly in a humid, salty environment. Check other metals to have in contact with al in salt air to use for rail joiners and screws.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

JP, I've had just the opposite experience with stainless; in fact I'm told stainless is preferred because of the electrolysis that occurs between aluminum and brass/copper. Dad's track has been down for 30 years with stainless steel screws and I think nickel silver joint bars. (We used joint bars like the prototype as opposed to fishplates bent around the base of the rail.) There was one part where we economized and used copper fishplates. Many of them corroded to the point of being unusable within 5 years. Lesson learned. 

Llagas sells stainless fishplates for use with their aluminum rail. I used them on my previous railroad. Neither railroad is in what I'd consider "salt air," but both were back east in VERY humid environments. 

Later, 

K


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Gents, 

There is very little in the way of 'salt resistant' materials. Brass and Bronze are the best, that's why the marine industry uses it so much. As for the electrolysis that occurs between dis-similar metals, that is going to occur no matter what materials you use, however the salt will expedite the process. 

JP, I disagree with your synopsis of Stainless Steel mated with Aluminum. I have used these two materials in conjunction with each other for years around the wet end of a paper machine with moderately good results considering the chemicals involved. You will also find that most boat manufacturers use stainless steel hardware to fasten their aluminum accessories to the hull. One of the negative properties of aluminum in general is that it oxidizes almost immediately on contact with oxygen. That is one of the reasons it is almost impossible to solder to aluminum. That same property is why aluminum stands up well outside, the oxides are harder than the base metal. They also impede conductivity, or why some believe it to not be a good choice for track power railroads. 

Comments from the 'For What it is Worth' department. 

Bob C.


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

I have about 300 feet of aluminum track down, outdoors, using track power. I'm using 1 foot sectional track, so I have a lot of joints.
I've only had conductivity problems in one area where muddy water washed over the roadbed. I fixed the drainage problem, cleaned the track and all is fine now.
I have had a few areas where expansion/contraction played **** with the joints. The Aristo joiners were replaced with rail clamps in these problem areas.
Now I don't recommend using 1 foot sectional track. I only did so because I bought it on closeout from Aristo-Craft at about $1 a foot.
But oxidation hasn't been a problem. I've been able to run my Aristo 0-4-0 with the track cleaning car after a month or two of inactivity with out any problems.
I did have to use rail clamps between my brass switches and aluminum track. If money was no object, I wouldn't mix brass and aluminum. 

Ralph


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## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

I looked for the accucraft brass track and was able to find it for a decent price. I live in Colorado so humidity isn't that big of an issue although the track will see a good amount of snow. 

Thanks for all of the responses with loads of good info, keep this thread going!


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I've used track power on aluminum track for twenty years and here's my insight. Aluminum cleans easy enough with a green pad on a drywall sander. The key is making good conduction at the rail joiner. I drill through the rail joiner at a 45 degree angle so that the hole goes through the groove next to the web and foot and comes out the bottom of the joiner. Then I put in #4 Philips head stainless steel flat head screws, two per joiner. The cost is about 20 cents instead of $2 for fancy railjoiner, which also work well. You want the hole to be smaller than the threads, so that the threads bite into the joiner and rail, making a reliable contact. I have also used copper wire and stainless steel screws as jumpers around the joiner with good results. Dipping the screw in a little bit of conductive grease hepls it screw in alot easier. Aluminum is pretty soft compared to brass or stainless steel. I would recomend code 332 aluminum as code 250 would get kinked alot easier with foot traffic. Because of the oxide issue, I would rate stainless steel track the best conductor outside, brass second and aluminum 3rd. I live in pretty dry Colorado, and I would hesitate to use aluminum rail close to the ocean where you get more corrosion because of salt in the air. 

If I were starting out now I would be tempted to try that plastic rail system from Train-Li, because it is so economical. You'd have to use a good subbase system to support it because it is so much more flexible than metal. There might be heat expansion issues to deal with. Battery power would be a necessity, but would probably be more economical when you consider how much money you could save compared to metal track. 

Terl


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Zoro, 

Both Greg and Teri brought up some good points. One thing not mentioned is that aluminum does not like to be stepped on. While any track needs adequate support beneath it aluminum needs it even more so. Initially on my present RR I was at ground level using aluminum 250 rail. I lost 80 feet in one night from deer stepping on it (tiny feet on large animal = a lot of weight on a small point). For a combination cost/durability I would once again use 332 brass for a ground level track powered railroad. My first outdoor RR was done with LGB brass track and it held up beautifully. If cost was no object I'd use nickel-silver (1st choice if I could find it) or stainless (2nd choice) for your particular situation. 

Aluminum is very durable otherwise. I am using Llagas Creek code 250 aluminum on my present raised railroad and it is absolutely excellent. The plastic ties are UV protected and the oldest switches and ties are 10 years old (the undamaged parts from the initial ground level RR) and still in use. I am close to the ocean, on the Oregon coast, and have had no trouble at all with corrosion or deterioration on the Llagas aluminum rail. I run all battery power now so rail cleaning isn't an issue for me beyond the usual leaf or twig. 

If your track will be safe from intruding feet then I could highly recommend Llagas track and switches although you would have to experiment to see if you had any trouble keeping it clean for track power in your location.


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## Skipford (Apr 23, 2012)

Is there a newer thread about this topic? Did anybody ever use the Train-Li plastic rail as a layout track material?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, there's nothing wrong with the information and opinions in this thread... no reason to repeat it. 

Yes, a friend has used the Train-Li plastic outside... it's slippery when wet and on a grade. 

I don't know anyone who has used it in high heat and high uv yet, like in Arizona. 

Greg


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