# Generation NEXT



## yardtrain (Feb 18, 2008)

Does anyone know Polk's phone number. I called (908) 834-2139 number posted on their website http://polksgenerationext.com/pages/contact-us/ But i get a recording stating unable to complete call. I also contacted them thru their contact us page with no response.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

not surprising, the facebook page seems to be the only place there is any action.

I've put out several emails to Scott and no response.

There are also people having problems with orders.

oh well

Greg


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Not sure if others got it but I received an e-mail a couple of days that Crest was closing as of 31 July. I figured that all other efforts associated with AristoCraft would go at the same time.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

fyrekop said:


> Not sure if others got it but I received an e-mail a couple of days that Crest was closing as of 31 July. I figured that all other efforts associated with AristoCraft would go at the same time.


I don't think Crest and the rest of what spun out of Accucraft's crash are linked anymore, so it's hard to tell what might happen to Polks. About six months ago I ordered one of their smallest circles of track to use for a project and got it right away. However, lately I've noticed that most everything on their site is listed as "Sold Out" so I wouldn't be surpised to seem them go belly up. I strongly suspect they might be being sabotaged by their Chinese supplier, but that's just speculation.


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## yardtrain (Feb 18, 2008)

riderdan said:


> I strongly suspect they might be being sabotaged by their Chinese supplier, but that's just speculation.


Can you expand on this ?


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Someone else more "in the know" can probably give all the gory details, but my understanding is that all the means of production is controlled by a Chinese firm. Again, I'm not clear on all the ins and outs, but if PGN owns the rights to the molds or even just to distribute those items in the U.S., it wouldn't take a genius to decide that letting PGN go under might open an opportunity to either pick a different distributor and set their own terms, or sell directly to the U.S. market. Or even perhaps to gain control of the molds, if they're lucky.

Of course, it could equally be a case of once bitten, twice shy, and they're insisting on payment up-front before shipping what they've produced. Possibly this is a vicious circle, where PGN's low sales volume makes the Chinese firm reluctant to ship before payment, the lack of product contributes to PGN's problems, which make the Chinese more nervous about shipping... That could easily spiral into big problems for Polk.

Either way though, they seem to be having inventory problems. And the problems seem to be getting worse rather than better. 

Polk's lack of communication doesn't give me confidence they'll survive... I find it interesting that they seem to have completely stopped answering phones and email and have apparently switched to a "Facebook only" mode. I'm thinking that shows a lack of understanding of their target audience (hint: their main customers are likely not Millennials or GenX'ers)


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Adding to what Dan said, factor in what has suddenly appeared in Bachmann latest announced releases, without even bothering to change the original name even! ....Does sound like Kader may be playing extreme hardball regarding future market share.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

riderdan said:


> Someone else more "in the know" can probably give all the gory details, but my understanding is that all the means of production is controlled by a Chinese firm. Again, I'm not clear on all the ins and outs, but if PGN owns the rights to the molds or even just to distribute those items in the U.S., it wouldn't take a genius to decide that letting PGN go under might open an opportunity to either pick a different distributor and set their own terms, or sell directly to the U.S. market. Or even perhaps to gain control of the molds, if they're lucky.
> 
> Of course, it could equally be a case of once bitten, twice shy, and they're insisting on payment up-front before shipping what they've produced. Possibly this is a vicious circle, where PGN's low sales volume makes the Chinese firm reluctant to ship before payment, the lack of product contributes to PGN's problems, which make the Chinese more nervous about shipping... That could easily spiral into big problems for Polk.
> 
> ...


I have to burst some conspiracy theories but here goes.

One of several model railroad manufacturers in Hong Kong and China is Kader.

Most of what Generation Next has been importing lately is track and this is not produced nor has ever been produced by Kader.

I am not sure which manufacturer is currently producing Crest but the problem with Crest is not supply, it is that the market is currently not large enough to continue as it is currently structured.

China has some interesting methods of producing products. You can pay to own all the molds needed to produce your product. If you do so the cost of the first production is higher because you have to pay the full cost of producing the molds but future production is less expensive and you can move the molds from one production shop to another.

You can also pay less up front for the first production and have the China mold manufacturer invest in your product and own the molds. You still can have exclusive use of the molds if desired but you pay more for each production run as the mold cost is spread across productions rather then paid up front.

This flexibility offers a lot of advantages and disadvantages. I know manufacturers who have chosen both approaches dictated by their specific business model.

The real problem we face in this hobby is that cost of production is increasing, and the market is decreasing. I am still very optimistic long term but short term I suspect we will continue to see changes in the manufacturing community.

Stan Ames


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I don't believe the Revolution was ever made in China.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Treeman said:


> I don't believe the Revolution was ever made in China.


I just checked photos on ebay..every Crest Revolution product on the site, both current auctions and ended ones, all say: "Made in Korea"

Scot


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Treeman said:


> I don't believe the Revolution was ever made in China.


Yeah--I was referring to Polks, not Crest. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

When I made my above comment, I was specifically thinking of 


fyrekop said:


> I figured that all other efforts associated with AristoCraft would go at the same time.


 in relation to the apparent dearth of inventory available from Polks currently. Which led to my speculation on why it might be that they're having trouble getting product.

Stan, when you say


StanleyAmes said:


> China has some interesting methods of producing products. You can pay to own all the molds needed to produce your product. If you do so the cost of the first production is higher because you have to pay the full cost of producing the molds but future production is less expensive and you can move the molds from one production shop to another.
> 
> You can also pay less up front for the first production and have the China mold manufacturer invest in your product and own the molds. You still can have exclusive use of the molds if desired but you pay more for each production run as the mold cost is spread across productions rather then paid up front.
> Stan Ames


I've heard that, too. 

That's what I was referring to in regards to whoever is producing this stuff putting pressure on Polk. It would be interesting to know if Aristocraft's bankruptcy meant that the largest "creditor" (who I assume would be the Chinese producer) got ownership of the molds or not. If they wound up holding the bag when Aristocraft folded, that would explain any possible reluctance to supply items to Polk (which really is just Aristocraft with a new name)

Anyway, I appear to have completely hi-jacked this thread with my comment--which wasn't really my intention. I apologize.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

riderdan said:


> That's what I was referring to in regards to whoever is producing this stuff putting pressure on Polk. It would be interesting to know if Aristocraft's bankruptcy meant that the largest "creditor" (who I assume would be the Chinese producer) got ownership of the molds or not. If they wound up holding the bag when Aristocraft folded, that would explain any possible reluctance to supply items to Polk (which really is just Aristocraft with a new name)
> 
> .


Again to dispel rumors, most of Aristocraft production was done at Sanda Kan, a company that was near bankruptcy in 2008. What was left was bought by Kader but run as a separate division.. Lewis took the track molds and machines and moved them to another factory. I have no idea what deals were made on the molds used to produce the locomotives and rolling stock or deals made when Aristocraft folded.

Scott purchased the remaining inventory that Kader had and imported it several years ago.

I am very confident that Scott could produce any former Aristocraft product that Kader has the molds for.

The problem however is that prices have increased substantially and the minimum quantities for a product have gone up.

I seriously doubt that Scott has the resources or desires to make the investment needed to produce Locomotives and/or Rolling Stock in this market.

Stan Ames


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