# So who does make good American Steam locomotives?



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

OK, for all of you with great experience and opinions. I have been collecting LGB trains (rolling stock and engines) since 1982. Very modest collection since it was even expensive back then. But as I look and review several comments on various manufacturers now....depending upon who you want to believe, and the slowly dimenishing suppliers of trains....who really makes a reliable and well crafted 4-6-0, or 2-8-0 or Shay or Climax engines? I read that Bachmann engines from 20-25 years ago were "junk" and barely made it a good starter set or through two Christmas seasons. PIKO seems to be the upcoming contender for LGB (now owned by Marklin). Aristo-craft is also in the mix. I don't mind spending say $400-600 for quality...but don't want to find myself having to change out the gear boxes, motors and having equipment that requires another $200 in upgrades to make it worth while. Not to mention that if you want DCC or battery power, you are looking at another $350-500 for the conversion.

So, if there are some folks that have had good luck with a particular brand or manufacturer of electric engines (sorry live steam....my wife isn't interested in my cashing in my 401K for this hobby), I would love some insight. My LGBs run just like the day I bought them...some over 30 years old. I'm a little disappointed that they don't offer more in the American line of steam engines...but I know there are plenty of options from other builders.

Thanks in advance for your input. Ed


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

With your requirements stated , you will have to find an LGB steamer to work for you , really , I think that you knew the answer . 
Over all the years and different mfrs locos purchased , the LGB ones have been the best for us here , and they are still operating . 
But I belive the NEW Bachmanns are really getting much better , my newer Bachmanns have just kept on working and working . 
The Annv Annies 4-6-0s have been real workhorses here , and I wonder just how long the very latest Annv Annies will last , maybe a long time . 
So you should consider a Annv Annie Bachmann 4-6-0 ten wheeler and set some new recorde yourself really , plus it looks just like the real steamer down South on the Tweetsie RR , former ET&WNC rr locomotive .


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Ed, 
Many will jump in with their opinions, and many will have more experience with myself... but for what it's worth.... ;-) I believe Bachmann has come a long way over the years, and I've had no problems with their newer equipment. That being said, I have heard mixed reviews on their 'Big Hauler' line. 
I have never heard a bad report about Hartland Locomotive Work's mechanics. They are not as detailed as many brands, but they are extremely robust, and made in the USA, believe it, or not. 
I don't have much experience with Aristocraft, so I will leave that for others. I believe Accucraft is worth the extra money, but they are above the $400-600 range you mentioned. 

Hope this helps a little, 
Matt


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Though its not a prototypical engine, the LGB 20232 series engines are decent little critter engines.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

I was very impressed with the new Bachmann C-19 coming out next month that Bachmann had on display this past National Show. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uvG6caPtrU


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

My four year old Annie 4-6-0 runs great and has needed...nothing...since taking it out of the box. 
The 3rd gen Big hauler I was given as a gift ran fine and pulled well even after sitting for many, many years in the box when it was given to me as a gift and just to hedge my bets I followed George Schreyer's suggestions on improving it by securing the motor in the frame [the adhesive Bmann used showed signs of drying and cracking and I just reinforced it with some strong adhesive I had in the shop a few years ago], and it still runs fine but the Annie pulls more cars. 
I bought a Connie used, affordably on eBay, [year? unknown] with what turned out to be a cracked drive gear and flipped it over and replaced it with an inexpensive drive gear from NWSL. It required a little effort, but looks more daunting than it was to actually do it. Don't need to be a swiss watch maker to make the upgrades. It runs smooth and pulls well... 
They released a new version of the Climax and as noted a new C-19 engine.
New climax review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtX_8vZKXAg 
Give the Bach man a try. They run as well as my Aristo and USA diesels do.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I can wholeheartdly reccomend LGB engines, many of which will exceed your $400-$600 range. The Uintah/Sumpter Valley Mallets are beautiful in operation, the Mikado had a few teething problems at frist, but LGB jumped in and corrected the issue and fixed all the early ones. Newer Bachmann's are getting better but still a buyer beware in my book.  Hartland, made in Laporte, Indiana, while not super detailed are on par with the earlier LGB Moguls. Thier 4-4-0 American may not be to scale in the length dept, but it will go around LGB R1 curves and has a bullet proof drive. They tend to reuse many pieces of thier exhisting tooling to come up with other locomotives. I have no experience with Aristo steamers as they require curves wider than I have ever been able to use, and their C16 doesnt look right dimensionaly to me. Keep in mind, prior to Bachmann and others jumping in the large scale band wagon, folks would take LGB engines and bash them into American models. Many of the 2085d European mallets became Uintah's and other logging mallets long before LGB made the actual Uintah version. Google Barry Bogs and see what he did with LGB drives, can we say scale D&RGW K class Mikado's, Shays, A D&RGW #50 long before LGB did it. Much like narrow gauge modeling in the smaller scales, there will never be the selection of USA steamers in G scale, due mostly to extreamly high cost of tooling up such a model. So that leaves kitbashing and scratchbuilding around a proven drive system. I understand not everybody has this skill, I know I do not have this ablity. So I settle with whats out there and if I want something custom, there are folks out there, that for a price, will build you whatever you want. For me its LGB all the way. Mike


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## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Bachmann gives me the scale and high detail which LGB does not. 
Bachmann are making all their latest things with brass gears, something LGB don't do. 
Climax 
C-19 
Annie 
2-4-2 Lyn 
Then there are all recent the 'non brass' locos that are perfectly fine. The ones to watch out for are plastic trucked shays, early gen 4-6-0s, some climaxes and Connie main gear (replacement brass gear $10). 

In my opinion Bachmann had a poor introduction for reliability, but is vastly better now. LGB is far from immune for poor drives, QC... 

Alec


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Contrary to many opinions, I have had great success with the Aristo Pacific, Mike and 0-4-0. These are the older releases.


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

Posted By Bob Pero on 15 Sep 2012 11:55 AM 
Contrary to many opinions, I have had great success with the Aristo Pacific, Mike and 0-4-0. These are the older releases. 
really?????? Do tell, do you have movies or pictures? I can never get that 0 4 0 running worth a darn.

Jethro


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe Bob is running battery? Track power pickup on the 0-4-0 sucks, but maybe he also improved that. 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Maybe he hung a tender on the 0-4-0


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

A tender with power pickup will make a huge difference. I like the 0-4-0 and found it ran well if you didn't ask it to,pull more than the prototype. I ended up adding powered tender trucks to mine, and now it pulls ridiculously long trains


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed, has mentioned a number of manufacturers, who make engines in several different scales. It would help me answer his original question if he said what scale he is interested in modelling. He says that he has LGB, but that is 1:22.5/24/?. Are you interested in narrow gage or standard gage locos? 

Chuck


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I would agree in general that Bachmann seems to have gotten their act together and is making good stuff. Not my scale, but good value nd quality now


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

I also would like to add that beside the very nice details on the BMann Connie that it pulls REALLY well with the Delrin drive gear replacement. I was visiting Doc Watson this spring and he has one grade on the inner loop of his layout that I think he said may be a 4% grade. Doc's Climax engine pulled an 8 or 9 car train up that grade but spins a tiny bit near the top. I may be remembering this wrong but i think he also has a Mogul we tried that wouldn't pull the grade with the same train. My fat little Connie just walked right up it without any slipping and I think we could have added quite a few more cars without any slipping behind the connie. The Connie is also an outside frame loco and I really like to watch that model run. We didn't try our Annies on that grade but plan to do that soon. I suspect they may pull the grade with the same load but we'll see how they do. At this point I would be inclined to say the Connie is the strongest Bachmann puller.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have 4 Aristo Craft Mallets, 3 Aristo Craft Mikados, and 3 Aristo Craft Pacific's all are the newer yellow box versions and I have had really good luck with them.
They run smooth and are great pullers, especially the mallet's, the Pacific's really fly down the track.

I also have an AML K4 and a 0-6-0, but have not really gotten to run them yet, they are brass engines and do look very nice.

Lastly I have a LGB 2-6-0 mogul that runs great as well.

Ron


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

This summer I have been to two open house events and observed the Aristo Mallets running. One was running on battery power, one on track power. I concur with Ron. They seem to run very well. Maybe one day I'll purchase one of those myself as a Clinchfield locomotive. But then I'll have to also buy 30 coal hopper cars to go with it.

S


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## Krodista (Oct 3, 2011)

I purchase a lot of my train stuff on ebay as its often found at a discount compared to buying new and have been considering buying a 2 truck bachmann shay. Is there a way to know if you have a plastic trucked shay before purchasing? Tell-tale signs of the plastic trucks? I believe the 3 trucks shays are newer models going off the fact that they are the only variant sold by bachmann at this point. Is it safer to just go with a 3 truck shay? I had considered accucraft, but realized the price was a good bit out of my price range as very few seem to come on the market used.

As to the mention someone else made about Hartland, I have a few products of theirs and have to say they are build to last, but are extremely lacking in the detail department. They have a very plastic-y feel to them, but they are made in the US and I wish that more things still were.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

At Chuck, sorry I didn't provide a specific gauge for my railroad(s). I have a inside double loop layout in a space that is abour 12'x12'. This is used mostly so I can practice modeling (I did HO for 45 years and needed some experience in building bridges and structures using a table saw and compound miter saw vs. a pair of twissers and X-acto knife...Ha). I have a living room "loop" that rounds around the mid-point in our two story room (maybe 20x28 feet), even a tunnel for getting through the fire place....but will be expanding to outside. The first layout is a lumber company theme and probably will sport something more in the narrow guage arena (but I must admit that I enjoy stand-off and don't get into making sure everything is exact to a specific scale). I know I have rolling stock that I've purchased that is 1:22 and some upwards of 1:29...my bad. So I have probably insulted half the crew about now. 

When I move outside (this fall/winter) I want to get away from another with a 4 foot diameter and try to minimize the 5/6' for yards and main lines should be 8-10'....then I can look into running something larger than my LGB Mogul (2-6-0). I have a friend with #51 Uintah by LGB that is very impressive. So, my reason for asking for opinions and success stories is to try and figure outside of LGB engines, what others have found that they have good experience with in the Mogul, Climax, Shay and maybe larger saddle tank style of locomotives. Lots of good ideas so far and I'm taking notes. Ed


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

0-4-0 with tender. Power pick up on both trucks. Vast improvement over the non-temder version.


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Ed,
with the locomotives that you're talking about I think you'll be real happy with the 8' or 10' diameter curves. I have an Aristo Mallet and it runs fine on my railroad. Most of my railroad is 10' or larger curves, but I do have some 8' and it's never caused me a problem. I also have three of Aristo's 4' diameter turnouts and I can run my Mallet through those if I'm careful and go slow. I have a friend with a MTH Triplex that he runs on mostly 10' curves, but he has some smaller curves and it runs through them fine, it just looks ridiculous. The front end swings way out to the side and makes my Mallet on my 4' turnout look good. Obviously larger is better, but if you need to go with 8' diameter I think it will work fine and if you go with 10', even better.
Bob


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed

I doubt that you have insulted anyone. I have and run 3 of the 4 common commercial scales available in "G"; 1:20.3, 1:22.5/24, and 1.29. I do not have any 1:32. I run them all, but not at the same time.

From what you have indicated Bachmann Spectrum engines are probably best for a logging operation in 1:20.3 scale. I have a Bachmann Shay, Climax, Connie and 2 K-27s. My 2-truck Shay is one of the recent versions, I have heard that there were truck problems in the earliest version. I have not had any problems with either the Shay or the Climax. I have had Barry at "Berry's Big Trains" add his revised gear train to the Connie and R&K's new gear train added to the Ks. Both of these additions improved the performance of the engines. I do not have the new Bachmann logging mallet, but I haven't heard about any problems with it. 

If you have a lot of LGB (1:22.5/24) their Mogul and Forney would provide decent logging locomotives if you don't want to go into a new scale. 

Accucraft also makes logging locomotives. They have a Climax and a 3 truck Shay listed on their web site. They are more expensive than the Bachmann engines. I have several of their rod locomotives, and I am very pleased with them. I did have to remove 2 of the 3 springs in the suspension of the trucks on my K-28 to get it to go around my outside layout. The suspension was very stiff. Other than that I have been very pleased with them as well as the Bachmanns.

I'm not going to discuss USAtrains or Aristo at this time because they are 1:29 and you are interested in a backwoods logging operation and these are modern standard gauge products.

But what ever you do when you go outside use the largest diameter curves that will fit into the available space. Everything will look and run better.

Chuck


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Since you have a bunch of 1:22 stuff already, if you decide to go with a B'mann Connie, it CAN be rescaled (It's kinda huge right out of the box) with a Bug Mauler cab and tender (plus narrow the pilot and shorten the domes and stack). It isn't real hard, and it changes the whole profile from a midsized locomotive into a real heavy looking beast. 








http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/connie.html 

oh, and the gear change gota lot easier, B'mann finally came up with a decent replacement axle, even though the NWSL gear change isn't that hard, either.
http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/gear.html


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I have 2 aristo 040's, a Bachmann Annie and an Aristo Mallet. 


My Mallet is a high-mileage workhorse.


My Bachmann never gives me trouble. Though it has plummeted twice, it runs fine and smooth.


Only trouble I've ever had with 040's, and I don't have the tender, is it's easy to overload them. They'll pull 7 or 8 cars easily, but if you leave them doing that for a few hours they overheat the little motor. Then they don't have any torque. Of course, it's only a few minutes to change the motor. My 040's are very old. Always wanted to hack one up and put in the prime mover drive.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

My basement layout at my last home was 8' radius curves. My 4-6-0 Bachmanns ran fine on them. My 1:29 Aristo RS-3 and USA F3 A/B also ran fine on them and they didn't look silly. When I bought my Connie I had to rip my two bridges apart and widen them so it would clear the bridges. My RS-3 barely cleared them as it was...so...it needed to be done anyway. When I build the new layout at this home i just bought i think i will try and build 10' radius and greater because i may wish to someday purchase larger 1:29 steam engines. If I was only going to buy other 1:20 narrow gauge though 8' would work fine. I just want to leave myself room to run bigger engines just in case. You may want to keep that in mind when you build bridges and tunnels.


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

Bumping this older thread because i had a similar question.
And there are some good insights here.
So the general consensus thus far seems to be LGB and possibly newer Bachmann?


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed,
You mention in your post both narrow gauge and standard gauge locos. No scale preference?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, in the Shay and Climax, Bachmann is really the only avenue.

For the others, the C19 turned out to be a great loco.

Greg


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Hartland does a quasi Dunkirk geared engine that with some good weathering and redetailing, really fits the part of a logging engine. Seen a few nicely done versions here on the site. Shawn has one I believe, hiding among his live steamers! I put Hartland right up there in the dependablity column, and made right here in Indiana. Mike


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## Sampug394 (Dec 30, 2010)

Mike Toney said:


> Hartland does a quasi Dunkirk geared engine that fits the part of a logging engine.












Delightful monsters, these Dunkirks...










They look good pulling all kinds of stuff honestly.


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