# NGRC 2011 refund problems



## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

Unfortunately I cannot go to the 2011 NGRC convention in Kansas City this year because my daughter is getting married. I requested a refund a month ago from Dave from Small Rail Productions; the company managing the registration process. I made my reservations back in October of last year. 

Dave has made multiple promises to send me my $300+ refund but I have not seen it. I emailed and then called him tonight. He was short with me and seemed upset that I would ask for a refund. I was not pleased with the service. Is this the way the the NGRC wants the organization represented?

As Clark Howard says - the NO CUSTOMER SERVICE, customer service of this company is very discouraging.

I am said to say that I may not attend another of these conventions if we continue to get treated like this. 

Has anyone else had issues with refunds or with Small Rail Productions?


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

Send the request in writing via registered email. If you paid by credit card contact your credit card company. 
LAO


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

In terms of future conventions, each convention is run individually, so a bad experience at one does not mean all will be bad. It's simply the specific group of individuals who are coordinating that specific convention that will make/break it. 

Later, 

K


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## neals645 (Apr 7, 2008)

Your daughter scheduled a wedding without taking NGRC dates into account? I'm shocked, shocked!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Read what Kevin has said very carefully as truer words have not been spoken! There's more to be said but posting it here on a public forum is not appropriate.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

No, but it is sad that you are having such problems... Also, I have been to many railway historical society conventions over the last two decades, the amount you list is a LOT for attending a convention!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The amount he paid not only covers the admitance for the week but also for any added side trips,show car and banquets and such. So the price is not out of line. Shame that he has to fight to get the money back tho. I guess a wedding does not count like a death in the family. Diffidently get your money back then.







Later RJD


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

Update - I called Dave from Small Rail Productions again on Tuesday. He stated that he was traveling for 3 weeks and the check was now in the mail. That was 5 days ago. Hopefully the check is really in the mail. 

Has anyone else experienced this kind of service from them? 

Waiting through the weekend to see if the check is really in the mail....


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Every dealing I've had with David have been excellent. He is first class people. 

As Steve Stockham posted, "There's more to be said but posting it here on a public forum is not appropriate."


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

I have an unrelated question...somewhat.... 
Does anyone know when the DVD will ship? I had originally thought of attending then other obligations arose and I will not make it. Looking forward to the DVD. 

Thanks!


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I must agree with Stan! David is honorable man.

I have never gone wrong dealing with him. 

Bubba


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I agree with the others. David is the sort of person who will see that the right thing is done.

Right now is probably the very worst time to try to get a refund as David is fully occupied with getting ready for the NGRC. Since the refund involves multiple events it may be that multiple people/organizations have to be coordinated with to get a refund for everything.

I also have to agree that "There's more to be said but posting it here on a public forum is not appropriate." The fact that a single refund was not made promptly does not seem (to me) to justify a post on an international forum questioning David's integrity.

Jerry


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Well said Jerry.


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

dperrott, did you ever get your refund? The problems you experience concern me, and since it's been over a week since your last post here I wanted to follow up.


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

Update...

I do not agree with the comments posted that this is the worst time - I sent him an email and left a voicemail at the beginning of April - 2 months ago. Dave did not respond - plain and simple. Multiple times I was told that checks were in the mail. No matter how you look at this, I was being completely misled. I trust that Dave would be honest with me but in this case it was not there.

When I spoke with them early this month I was told the check was in the mail - but in fact it had never been sent. His excuse was that he had volunteer staff working. My comment is that I do not care if they were volunteer or not. They are representing his company. I would never let volunteers manage my company's finances. Final excuse given was they were out of checks.

Dave did do the right thing and took care of express mailing a check out to me. For this I say thank you. 

Issue has been resolved but I do question the integrity of Small Rail Productions when dealing with people. I appologize if people think I am slamming David and SRP but I have not made any false statements in these postings. This was a simple version of *customer NO service*.

Final comment is that I feel that the only reason that there was a response from David was because of this forum posting. He mentioned it multiple times in our conversation about this situation. I waited for a month with multiple phone calls before I posted to this forum. It took 2 months to get a refund that should have taken no more than 2 weeks if not 2 days.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I have talked to David...And my opinion of him still stands. I feel he stands by his word...always done right by me.

Do you all realize that this is a side business, NOT his main one. He does his main job and takes on this because he likes to promote the hobby, profit, I doubt there is much to be made in this hobby as it targets ONLY a small portion of all the scales that are more popular. So I lean toward it being more a love of the hobby and bringing this nitch out to people that enjoy it....I stand behind this convention as it brings it closer to home that no one would care about bringing to the center of the US.

Being a small company, and side job, if you can understand this takes money to make this happen, depending on money that comes in. In the form of pre-registers and such...money in...money out!

I fully understand this...am I critical of the time frame or response time? No not really because I have never put on a show but I know damn well it takes not only a lot of time but also money, then factor in volenteers, gog bless them, but that is a whole nother issue, that cannot fully be controlled.

Do I also understand having to cancel...yes I do **** happens, but also remember the cash paid in advanced probubly has been earmarked for putting the show together..again money in money out!

If the cash has been paid, it was gone in the first place, as long as you get it back, again time frame, what is the hassle, again it was gone anyway...no hurry to get it back...remember your time frame is not others time frame.

They could have and SHOULD have made any fees non-refundable, then there would have been no issues at all. (Food for thought), then everyone would have given better thought before placing any money down beforehand...again I am not a businessman.

I think they are doing us a great service bringing this convention to the midwest, because no one else would have cared to take on such a monstrous job in doing do! Thanks David and company!

Sorry david I had to state this, I can only take so much bashing, hope you are not upset, but this also has to get out! (and you probubly cannot state what I just stated)

I really do appreciate this very large hassle you have taken on to bring this convention to our area...no one else care about us here in this area to do it! Everyone should also maybe be a little more appreciative of this effort.

This is why I have jumped on the band wagon to help any way I can

Sorry Dave don't be mad.

You and your wife are good people!

IMHO

Bubba


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Madstang on 09 Jun 2011 05:16 AM 
I really do appreciate this very large hassle you have taken on to bring this convention to our area...no one else care about us here in this area to do it! Everyone should also maybe be a little more appreciative of this effort.

This is why I have jumped on the band wagon to help any way I can

Bubba




Perhaps Bubba has said it best for the rest of us.

We speak up for David out of appreciation for what he has (personally) done (along with his many volunteers) to support and promote garden railroading in the Mid-West.

If David was doing this for personal profit he would make more money flipping burgers at McDonald's and he would not have been writing his personal checks to pay for the burgers.

No one is attacking anyone. Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion and to post whatever that opinion happens to be. By the same token, friends speak up for friends.

The question WAS asked "Has anyone else had issues with refunds or with Small Rail Productions?" This in effect invited comments both negative and positive regarding David and his Small Rail Productions.

"I do question the integrity of Small Rail Productions when dealing with people." That statement invited further comments. I have enough trust in David that I would have written a personal check for the $300 to back up my belief in the integrity of Small Rail Productions when dealing with people. Many volunteers have donated their time, services and money (their expenses) that would far exceed $300 to make the 2011 NGRC a success. 
"I feel that the only reason that there was a response from David was because of this forum posting." Those of us who know David would take very strong exception to this. The internet has made the world a very small place. The fact that this has been the one and only time such a comment has been made suggests that it is a comment without any supporting evidence of anyone ever having been left with an unpaid debt owed by Small Rail Productions.

"I appologize if people think I am slamming David and SRP" I for one did come away with the impression that David and SRP were being slammed.

Perhaps once again Bubba said it best "They could have and SHOULD have made any fees non-refundable, then there would have been no issues at all." 


A full refund has been made. $300 would be a lot of money to lose but not a penny has not been lost. Perhaps now things can settle down and those who are going can look forward to a great NGRC 2011 in Kansas City. 
Enjoy your daughter's wedding.


Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I never once doubted that David would refund the money. 

But the points of how long it took, and what SEEMED like excuses are valid. 

This forum has often "helped" move things along in the world that otherwise seemed to be "stuck".... 

Look at all the major improvements and announcements from a major manufacturer that can be correlated exactly with "lively" discussions here. 

I'm sure it was uncomfortable for David having this aired here. But it was MORE uncomfortable for the person owed $300, and who had to repeatedly request his refund. 

Regards, Greg


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes I agree Greg, but everyone's time is not always to our liking. 

Like I stated in a seperate post it took PayPal weeks to get my money...again not my time their time...did I like it **** no, but it came back to me just the same.

And it wasn't money ear marked for necessities..it was play money, (in my case).

Patience is a virtue I sometimes also lack....money is back....no loss no foul.

Thanks Jerry. 

Again IMHO

Bubba


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