# Boiler Water



## martinfbrown (Aug 23, 2008)

Hi, 
I have had the accucraft Edrig loco for over a month now. I have been using de-ionised water in the boiler, but have since been told not use de-ionised water. I have now filtered some rainwater and I now intend to use that. Has anyone any advice on boiler water. Thanks 
Martin


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

See: 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/11/postid/47000/view/topic/Default.aspx


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't know where you are, but if you are in the states, the Food Lion chain carries steam distilled water (and another processed distilled water also). You can also look in drug stores for steam distilled water used for medical purposes. If you are in England, then read about boiler water in the live steam thread on GScaleMad at: 
http://www.gscalemad.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=13


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By weaverc on 09/07/2008 5:56 PM
If you are in England, then read about boiler water in the live steam thread on GScaleMad at: 
http://www.gscalemad.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=13




No laffin, you American guys - I've just bought a distilled water maker to make my own distilled water right here on the counter top. It makes 4 litres in 4.5 hours. Sure it cost me a bunch [£145 plus shipping] but here in UK distilled water at its cheapest is around $35 a gallon plus shipping. 

I can easily go through a gallon in an afternoon with only four little steamies...and driving into town to buy costs a lot of expensive fuel. 

If anybody lives near me [and those of you who do know who you are] I'm pretty sure that we can come to an amicable arrangement.  

Best to all 

tac


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## GNSteamer (Jan 16, 2008)

FYI, Target stores in the U.S. sell filtered water by STEAM DISTILLATION for .99 a gallon.


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## topshed (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi, 
The most readily available and cheapest supply of properly distlled water has to be rain! As long as you filter out the rubbish it picks up as it travels through the atmosphere, it will do your lokies no harm at all. I take it from our water butt and pass it through an old domestic water filter and it's great. I have used it exclusively for some time with no problems at all. 
Keep steaming, 
Martin.


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## deWintonDave (Jan 5, 2008)

I use rainwater caught "mid-stream"  No need for anything else. Certainly no need to make distilled water. 
Dave.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By GNSteamer on 09/08/2008 11:04 AM 
FYI, Target stores in the U.S. sell filtered water by STEAM DISTILLATION for .99 a gallon. 


That was pretty darn cruel to remind me. You are not forgiven. 

And BTW, rainwater here in East Anglia consists of Saharan sand, lime and something else that binds it all together. A car left in the rain gets covered with white powder as it dries off. Mind you, it's been raining almost non-stop here for almost two weeks, so my memories of dry cars are a mite hazy. 

tac


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## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

Condensed water from my neighbours tumbly drying thing is free. She throws out ££££s of the stuff /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Why is Distilled Water so "restricted" or "unavailable" in the UK?


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## martinfbrown (Aug 23, 2008)

Hi, 
All I have been able to buy here in the UK is De-ionised water. Thats all car accessory shops sell for car batteries. I am going to use filtered rain water. 
Martin


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Chris Scott on 09/09/2008 7:46 AM
Why is Distilled Water so "restricted" or "unavailable" in the UK? 




Dear Mr Scott - if you ever find out, please let us know. 

I HAVE found it as low as £15.95 for five litres, but that does not include £25 minimum shipping charge. 

tac


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Rod Hayward on 09/09/2008 7:13 AM
Condensed water from my neighbours tumbly drying thing is free. She throws out ££££s of the stuff /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif" border=0>/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif" border=0>/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif" border=0>




Aaaaaaah, the idle rich strike again. Where we live there is not enuff electricity to drive a tumble drier AND one of them big wind turbine thingies...they have be to be left on all the time to make a breeze across the fens.  

tac


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 09/09/2008 11:55 AM
Posted By Chris Scott on 09/09/2008 7:46 AM 
Why is Distilled Water so "restricted" or "unavailable" in the UK? 

Dear Mr Scott - if you ever find out, please let us know. 
I HAVE found it as low as £15.95 for five litres, but that does not include £25 minimum shipping charge. 
tac 





Ya see? There's yer problem! 

If you would buy it by the "GALLON" instead of this fancy-smancy metric "Litres" stuff it'd be lots cheaper! 

Might also be cheaper if you spelled it "liters"?


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 09/09/2008 12:12 PM
Posted By tacfoley on 09/09/2008 11:55 AM 
Posted By Chris Scott on 09/09/2008 7:46 AM 
Why is Distilled Water so "restricted" or "unavailable" in the UK? 

Dear Mr Scott - if you ever find out, please let us know. 
I HAVE found it as low as £15.95 for five litres, but that does not include £25 minimum shipping charge. 
tac 


Ya see? There's yer problem! 
If you would buy it by the "GALLON" instead of this fancy-smancy metric "Litres" stuff it'd be lots cheaper! 
Might also be cheaper if you spelled it "liters"? 




Before Tac jumps in with his tac-ful reply  I'll provide the techical answer. 
Both spellings are correct depending...

"-re, -er 
In British usage, some words of French, Latin, or Greek origin end with a consonant followed by -re, with the -re unstressed and pronounced /ə(ɹ)/. Most of these words have the ending -er in the US. "


tac, It's all yours.


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## tony23 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 09/08/2008 6:23 AM
Posted By weaverc on 09/07/2008 5:56 PM 
If you are in England, then read about boiler water in the live steam thread on GScaleMad at: 
http://www.gscalemad.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=13

No laffin, you American guys - I've just bought a distilled water maker to make my own distilled water right here on the counter top. It makes 4 litres in 4.5 hours. Sure it cost me a bunch [£145 plus shipping] but here in UK distilled water at its cheapest is around $35 a gallon plus shipping. 
I can easily go through a gallon in an afternoon with only four little steamies...and driving into town to buy costs a lot of expensive fuel. 
If anybody lives near me [and those of you who do know who you are] I'm pretty sure that we can come to an amicable arrangement.  
Best to all 
tac 





I cannot believe you have bought one of those tac /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif have you worked out how much electric they use for 4.5 hours /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif it's like leaving your kettle on for that amount of time.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Cheap night rate economy 7, dark electricity or whatever you call it...still beats paying almost £35 for five litres, delivered. Says 580W on the spec sheet and actually starts producing in around 20 minutes....turns itself off, too. 

tac


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## Michael (Jan 6, 2008)

Sorry guys, 

I still think this is all just a big myth like the Yeti or Bigfoot. 

I have been using de-ionised water since I joined the live steamers community in 1991 in more than 20 locomotives with no problems at all. 
Quite frankly, the logic offered to explain the difference (in behaviour) between de-ionised and steam distilled sounds like nonsense to me. We all agree the manufacturing process is different - ion exchanging vs steaming and condensing. Whatever the process, it aims at getting purified water devoid of anything else than H2O, right? 
Actually, I get a spec sheet with my water that precisely lists the mineral content etc, which is virtually zero. Had the water been processed by steam destillation I would have expected the same result. 

Now, the logic to explain the "dangerous" nature of de-ionised water usually goes along the following lines: it is so pure that is wants to have something back, so it "eats" ions from copper and solder. This is no surprise -water is an excellent means to dissolve matter, even rocks as can be seen in nature every day. So, but where's the difference to steam distilled water? Since it's equally pure, it's equally "ion-hungry", hence equally dangerous (or not). 

The process of dissolving metals is the same whether it's been manufactured one way or the other. 
The process is so slow (or might even stop) that it has no detrimental effects. It's like saying - humans are aging from the day of their birth, yet they can live for 80 years or more.... 

Don't get me wrong - there have been cases where boilers ot fittings failed because of evil effects like de-zincification or the like, but to all my knowledge that can be traced back to elements that are still in the water like dissolved oxygen, minerals, etc. not to the process of how to remove these elements from the water. 

Sorry, just my two cents... 

Michael


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## tony23 (Jan 2, 2008)

tac, have you got a link to your distiller I did see one at last years Harrogate engineers show but he had no brochures, 
Micheal I can see your point, a friend of mine has a total of 25 Gauge 1 loco's not one an Aster all built by private builders here in the UK he aways leaves the boilers full when he puts them away some of them do not get run for over a year he tells me I should do the same but I'm not sure, I run a 5" loco and always empty the boiler after a days running what's the best advice?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Michael on 09/10/2008 5:24 AM
Sorry guys, 
I still think this is all just a big myth like the Yeti or Bigfoot. 
I have been using de-ionised water since I joined the live steamers community in 1991 in more than 20 locomotives with no problems at all. 
Quite frankly, the logic offered to explain the difference (in behaviour) between de-ionised and steam distilled sounds like nonsense to me. We all agree the manufacturing process is different - ion exchanging vs steaming and condensing. Whatever the process, it aims at getting purified water devoid of anything else than H2O, right? 
Actually, I get a spec sheet with my water that precisely lists the mineral content etc, which is virtually zero. Had the water been processed by steam destillation I would have expected the same result. 
Now, the logic to explain the "dangerous" nature of de-ionised water usually goes along the following lines: it is so pure that is wants to have something back, so it "eats" ions from copper and solder. This is no surprise -water is an excellent means to dissolve matter, even rocks as can be seen in nature every day. So, but where's the difference to steam distilled water? Since it's equally pure, it's equally "ion-hungry", hence equally dangerous (or not). 
The process of dissolving metals is the same whether it's been manufactured one way or the other. 
The process is so slow (or might even stop) that it has no detrimental effects. It's like saying - humans are aging from the day of their birth, yet they can live for 80 years or more.... 
Don't get me wrong - there have been cases where boilers ot fittings failed because of evil effects like de-zincification or the like, but to all my knowledge that can be traced back to elements that are still in the water like dissolved oxygen, minerals, etc. not to the process of how to remove these elements from the water. 
Sorry, just my two cents... 
Michael 





I take it you haven't been chased through the north woods by Bigfoot? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 

I won't deny that some cases of de-zincification were caused by oxygen and minerals, but I have read of cases where the damage was "decided" (by someone) to be caused by deionized water. My Mother's steam iron fell apart and she only used dionized water in it, AS WAS RECOMMENDED BY THE MANUFACTURER!!!! (How about that?!) /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif 

Yes, you may have been using dionized water since 1991 and have no problems. It is my understanding that sometimes it can take 20, 30 or more years for deionized water to cause a problem. But, IF one were to have used only distilled water the boiler may be useful for an additional 20, 30 or more years. 

I bet I will be dead, and the celebration of my leaving the scene long forgotten, before my engines would be damaged even if plain ol' municipal tap water was all that was ever used in them, but when my great-great-grandchild finds one of them packed away in a trunk someplace, it would be nice if it could be fired-up and work, rather than fired-up and dribble hot water all over the place. It may make the difference between: "WOW! These things are neat and still work!" and "Oh! Well, I guess this was just some junk somebody had."


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By tony23 on 09/11/2008 5:12 PM
tac, have you got a link to your distiller I did see one at last years Harrogate engineers show but he had no brochures 




Dear Mr 23 - details here - 

www.justmagnotherapy.com - the proprietor, a gentleman called Jim Lewis, is very helpful indeed and has had a lifelong professional interest in water purification as a scientist for a number of water companies, so he knows what he is talking about. He is also very keen to talk to folks about any local difficulties with water supply if you care to - 0115-920-2810. He recommends using pre-heated water to save electricity, in fact, using hot water right out of the tap/faucet saves at least an hour of V, W and A. 

I am VERY happy with the service I got from him and his willingness to discuss my local area water problems. 

If you are following this on the G1MRA Yahoo site, you'll have noted my responses there, too. 

I, too, run a LARGE scale loco, a 7.25" Romulus, but we use filtered rainwater and a once a year washout with FEROX...the loco is now fourteen years old, and is in prime condition, in fact, we run most every weekend throughout March - October and around christmas for the ever-popular Santa specials, on our little track not far from Ramsey, Cambs. My 1/3 scale Baguley-Drewry 'Harlech Castle' doe not use water, of course. You can find us in the 'Tiny Trains' annual under 'Fenland Light Railway' - I am the secretary. 

Graders 

tac


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