# why buy Accucraft??



## bobsteamer (Jan 14, 2008)

The best reason to buy Accucraft is their service. When you buy a product you exspect it not to have any problems, we all know that that is wishful thinking. How ever with Accucraft if there is a problem they listen to you and take care of it. I have nothing but good luck with them and their service. Of course a lot of it has to do with Cliff, he is great when you have a problem, he listens to you and understands what you are talking about. Best of all when he says he will take care of it he does. I only wish that more business treated you the way Accucraft does. That is why I will continue to buy their products Bob


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff is definately the man that gets things down! I have dealt with him by e-mail, phone AND in person. He is great.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I also agree, Cliff is a definate asset to the company. His service and product knowledge is what keeps me comming back. 
Nick Jr.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

I hear that Cliff is as good as it gets in regards to service, and a good man too.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

No sweat Steve. Just having a little fun with you. Remember "Life is too short to take seriously".


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

There you go again Steve. Remember John is out of the hospital. 
I guess soon i'll be an ASTER /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif like you. Hah.

Hello Art, I went back and took the negative ending off my post. It was uncalled for. It's one thing to be a self proclaimed "Aster Snob" , and another to come off sounding like a jerk, and that's how I sounded. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

I just never found a reason to buy an Accucraft or there would be one in my collecton of locomotives. I suspect that if I ever do buy an Accucraft it will be because of 1) percevied quality, 2) looks, 3) observed performance. So far observed performance is a big stumbling block for me. 
Steve and Art -- I hope this does not sound too negetive. It is just my personal thoughts on Accrucraft locomotives.


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## dmk092 (Jan 5, 2008)

Service is def amazing. When I was building my kit, there were some pieces that didnt line up perfectly. Unfortunately, I have no tools and no machining ability, but they would just ship any parts I needed, no cost and no questions asked. I dont have wheel barrows full of money to spend on steam engines, and in my view accucraft engines are definitely a great deal. Without their ruby kit, I would not be in this hobby.


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## dcplasterer (Jan 4, 2008)

Who else is making "affordable" steam engines? 

Don


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

Who else is making "affordable" steam engines? 

Don 

Roundhouse and ASTER have "affordable" engines. Check their prices. Not all ASTER engines cost the same as a Big Boy. The Roundhouse basic series are all reasonably priced are great runners and have outstanding quality. 

Of course, like many things discussed in these threads, affordable is in the eye of the beholder. 

However, I would call Accucraft cheap rather than affordable and say that from what I have seen you get what you pay for from either Roundhouse, ASTER, or Accucraft.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Why is it that you Aster fans have to jump into every thread about Accucraft and start putting them down? You didn't see the Accucraft guys jumping into the S2 threads and start bashing them for the ding in the pilot beam, threaded holes full of paint, the flattened tube leading to the water glass, the axel pump with problems, etc. 

The seemingly incessant need to turn every thread into an Accucraft vs. Aster thread is starting to get old. The fact that there are literally thousands of Accucraft locomotives happily running all over the world says more about that company and their product than does the always negative commentary of a few Aster fans. Does Accucraft have their problems? Sure they do! Does Aster have their problems? Sure they do! 

Buy and run what you like and have the courtesy to allow others to do the same.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't have any Accucraft engines...yet. I will when the make a big boy. I think the rolling stock is great. I will agree with Dwight. People take this stuff too seriously.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

The ORIGINAL pretext of this thread was Cliff Luscher's great support to his customers and Accucraft's service, NOT Aster vs. Accucraft products. Come on guys, read the damn threads before turning this into another bash one over the other. Geez./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, 
I think you have voiced what many of us think about the continual manufacturer bashing. I know that lots other subscribers feel the same way. No manufacturer is perfect including Aster, Roundhouse, Marklin, Accucraft et al. But most try hard and offer very good after sales service.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

The plain and simple fact is that we all buy what we want to buy. 

When I wanted a Gauge 1 live-steam Br01 there was only one game in town - Aster. 

When I wanted a Gauge 1 live-steam S3/6 there was only one game in town - Maerklin. 

When I wanted an Fn30 scale three-cylinder Mich-Cal Shay....Accucraft was all there was, and I've been very happy with it. 

Same for when I got a mad urge for a BIG NG Sarth Efrican Garratt..Accucraft or nothing. 

...and then Accucraft announced the CPR Royal Hudson - nobody else has EVER built one. 

One of them is heading my way. 

Me, I love 'em all... 

Aster versus Accucraft is a record that doesn't get played in our house. 

tac


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Dont't get upset by what someone has said in the thread about Accucraft. He realized after he posted that he might have gotten carried away with the moment. I know the guy and he is well intentioned. He has Accucraft runnning at his place all the time and has nothing but praise for them when they are running there. Think he likes to prod {sic} sometimes to get some fever in the thread. He did't ask me to say these things but let's drop the comparison and have fun running steam. 
As Jerry Barnes says " Life is too short to take seriously".


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

Okay Dwight, 

No more posts from me. I thought this site was to pass on ideas and thoughts and to stimulate discussion. 

I guess not. 

Bye Bye. 

Dave Young


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Response deleted


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I must admit that I have noticeed the tolerances on parts have gotten worst from my first Accucraft loco to my recent. Started with a IDA from the first batch. Very little slop on the rods and bushings, not so good on my recent 4-4-0 or K28. They produce a great looking loco but are taking shortcuts on the building and engineering. I just cant understand why. Id expect for a 4,500 loco that the axle box bushings would be a tighter fit not as loose as I have and is the case for many other of the same locos. My 4-4-0 had a horrible clicking sound from both the main and drive rods because there is a very oversize bushing on the bolts. Now since these are built on a CNC as I am told why would the tolerances be so far off and why would the crosshead guides be hand filed on all angles to fit into a slot that no longer even touches the guides??? 

Cliff is really a big help with repairs but why should there be so many repairs on a mass production loco that has a prototype and QC.


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

I bought an Accucraft WD Baldwin here in the UK because no one else made one at a reasonable price. Unfortunately I got a loco that was not "fit for purpose". Had so many problems and faults it was not of a quality that should have been allowed for sale. And mine was not the only one. A supplier I talked to had to repair 43 of the 46 loco`s he received. Mine was in a box and packing that had not been opened since it left China. No quality control or checking whatsoever in the UK. After it was damaaged in a derailment while testing I was in a mood to put a sledge hammer through it. I was eventually persuaded to return it for either repair or replacement. I was offered a refund first but then told I would get a new loco from the next, and last, batch. Six months later and with no communication from the manufacturer or supplier I had had enough. I asked for and received a full refund. Not exactly what I would call good back up service. 
I still have one Accucraft UK loco. A heavily modified Excelsior that runs like a dream. Untill those eccentrics and piston valves start to wear. Then where will I get parts from. I feel sorry for Garratt owners. Last batch has been made. A couple of years down the road and they need spares !. Aster are willing to provide spares on a one of basis, are Accucraft ?. 
Perhaps we need some one like Cliff here in the UK. 
Dougie L


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

While I do not like to get involved with these purile debates I feel I must comment in defense of Accucraft UK. I am not an Accucraft employee just another satisfied customer. 

On reading Dougiel's comments above I was concerned that not only were such a large proportion of the models shipped faulty but that there was littlke or no after sales service. I contacted Accucraft UK immediatly and forwarded Dougiel's post to them for comment. This is the answer I received from Ian Pearse. 

The loco in question was purchased from PPS Steam Models. The first thing we [Accucraft UK] knew of his [Dougiel] 
problems was when he personally lambasted me [Ian Pearse} on the 16mm e-group. He never 
bothered to contact me or the dealer in the first place. The dealer 
offered him a full refund, but he refused and sent the loco back to me. He 
was told by the dealer he would get a new loco from the next batch. It has 
been in the model press that the next batch was due in late June/early 
July, but he finally decided to get his money back and has had a full 
refund. 

Ian also pointed out that only one UK retailer had had stock of this model near the quantities that Dougiel mentions, was not PPS, and this retailer only had 4 out of the whole batch that suffered with minor problems. 

I and many others have had excellent service from Accucraft UK.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

The last two posts demonstrate better than anything why Shad has repeatedly asked that the forums not be used to resolve specific disputes between individuals and manufacturers/vendors. First off, somewhere there at least one person out there who has had trouble with every manufacturer or vendor that one can name. It's an unfortunate fact of life that it's usually these stories that get posted, while the vast majority of satisfied customers remain silent. 

Secondly, the guy who, rightly or wrongly, feels he's been burned is not going to be disposed to being particularly kind to the manufacturer/vendor whom he feels burned him, even if his case is an isolated one. 

Thirdly, said manufacturer/vendor is not going to step into the hornets nest of online forums to air their side of the story, so they can't defend themselves, and the rest of us essentially hear only one side of the argument - something no court of law in free countries would allow as a basis for a jury decision. So unless a member takes it upon themselves to research the specifics and post what they find, we only hear the one side from the original unhappy poster. 

Lastly, these comments can have a very real impact on the manufacturer/vendor in question, both in terms of their good reputation and their finances. 

Now we who moderate MLS are caught between a rock and a hard place. We try to walk a fine line between allowing for the free exchange of ideas and opinions and at the same time recognize the power of these forums to hurt people and businesses essential to the hobby. We are also keenly aware that the "howls of censorship" are always just around the next corner, and it's easy to start losing members/posters if there's too much interference from the mods. It's also true that the majority of the membership quickly gets tired of the criticism threads and we start losing members if we do nothing. So what to do? 

I've already pissed off one guy with my previous commentary (which I considered rather mild) in an effort to inject a little balance. Additionally, I posted that as a member and not as a moderator, though I didn't make that clear. How many will be pissed off by this post? 

I would ask people to consider before posting... is this post adding anything constructive to the thread? To the hobby? Am I being fair to all involved or am I being unreasonable? Could my post hurt more than help? Might my particular issue be due to something I did or didn't do? Could it be partly my fault? 

Mod hat off, member hat on... 

I currently own 12 steam locomotives. 8 of these are Accucraft locomotives and one other started life as an Accucraft Mogul and still retains its boiler and running gear. I have had no problems with any of them - at least none I consider worth mentioning and none that weren't in part caused by my own ineptitude - and I've run most of them quite a bit. I have three other locos by a different manufacturer and one has given me trouble. I have not posted about this trouble for a variety of reasons which pertain to the above. 

I have received unending help from Cliff in obtaining parts needed to build and enhance #21. 

Every steamup I attend has more Accucraft locos merrily steaming on the rails than any other manufacturer's. While I have seen folks having trouble with an Accucraft loco, I can honestly say that I have seen far more troubles with other makes. That's my first and second-hand experience for what it's worth. 

Nomex suit on...


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

We all seem to agree that Cliff is a tremendous asset to Accucraft and the hobby as a whole. 

Perhaps it is now time to put this thread to rest, and go have some fun with our toys. 

Larry


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 07/01/2008 9:49 AM
The plain and simple fact is that we all buy what we want to buy. 

When I wanted a Gauge 1 live-steam Br01 there was only one game in town - Aster. 

When I wanted a Gauge 1 live-steam S3/6 there was only one game in town - Maerklin. 

When I wanted an Fn30 scale three-cylinder Mich-Cal Shay....Accucraft was all there was, and I've been very happy with it. 

Same for when I got a mad urge for a BIG NG Sarth Efrican Garratt..Accucraft or nothing. 

...and then Accucraft announced the CPR Royal Hudson - nobody else has EVER built one. 

One of them is heading my way. 

Me, I love 'em all... 

Aster versus Accucraft is a record that doesn't get played in our house. 

tac 






Well said! I wanted a Darjeeling - it had to be Roundhouse. I wanted a Daylight and couldn't find an Aster so went with an Accucraft which pulls like a carthorse on steroids etc etc. Biggest issue for me is not the manufacturer, but finding matching rolling stock. 

BTW - is anyone building coaches for the CPR Hudson? 

Robert


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

I wasn't going to comment as it just adds to the list, but... 
I support Dwight. The chat is best when it is talking about solutions to problems or issues (and showing videos!) 


jim


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Robert - the only person building cars for the Accucraft Royal Hudson is Alan Wright in Ontario - an infrequent but more than welcome poster here in this very forum. 

I won't pre-empt him telling you all about these beautiful cars, but point you instead to his web-site, where you will see a clip of the RH steaming like a crazy thing and hauling a nice long train of these beauties - 

http://www.wrightwayrollingstock.com 

You will have to join the line, and the line is long. I'm in it someplace.... 

tac


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Funny, I have NEVER seen the mods come to the rescue of Roundhouse or Aster, 
Why is that..... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 07/02/2008 7:02 PM
Funny, I have NEVER seen the mods come to the rescue of Roundhouse or Aster, 
Why is that..... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif" border=0> 




They did hire a guy specifically to put down any Roundhouse-bashing threads that appear on here, don't know much about him since he never actually posts anything, but I hear he used to be a repairman for Maytag...


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jeff 

The reason the moderators "never" have to "come to the rescue" of Aster is because most people who drop $7000 for a kit and have problems are too embarrassed to publicly complain about it. They just go back to their dealer or Hans and take care of it. This is what the moderator(s) wish the rest of the folks would do instead of going into "full public whine". 

You will also notice a common situation; the individual usually raises a fuss on MLS BEFORE they try to get resolution of the problem with the seller or manufacturer. After all, if it got taken care of, they wouldn't have anything negative to post. Of course, they might make the mistake of saying something nice and then get beat up for that too. 

I am pretty sure this mini-rant doesn't qualify as "contributing positively" to the public discourse on this topic, but I couldn't control myself. 

Cheers 

Jim


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, the smoke stack just fell off my DRG 4-4-0 this weekend. The engine was hot but it was not a smoke box fire. I think this is funny. 
There is not much of a lip for the stack to mount on. I will fix it and go on... 

jim


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

ROFLMAO/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 
sorry Jim, but that was funny given the thread you posted it in /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif hope you getter fixed and steamin again.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jim / Jeff 

With the high price of metal (even in China) they probably don't use silver solder (or even high temp) on anything they don't think needs it. The assembly guy probably came of the electric loco production line. Roundhouse and Aster don't usually make electric drive locos, so they aren't as confused over such details. 

I have heard of engines assembled with the cylinders soft soldered. That is far more exciting than some old chimney falling off the top of the loco. 

Cheers 

Jim


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Robert, 

In answer to your question 'is anyone building coaches for the CPR Hudson?' the answer is an emphatic 'yes!' If you Google 'Wrightway rolling stock' it will take you to Alan and Phyl's website where you can see what's available. If you go to Youtube and type in Accucraft Royal Hudson you can see them running behind the first Hudson alcohol fired prototype on a 34f day back in 2006(!) 
As regards the RH Accucraft are saying October, but insert the usual 'fudge-factor' and I think you will find that to be early December! They are determined to get it right by following Dick Abbott's instructions, and the result should be the most powerful Accucraft ever. The second prototype was handling 18 coaches in 26f weather and running only stopped because the water in the feed pipe from the tender was freezing. 
For you 1/32 runners who are looking for boxcars, Accucraft will start delivering the 40'AAR cars before the end of the year. (that's 2008...I wouldn't BS you about such a serious matter!) 

David M-K 
Ottawa


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I talked to Cliff today about the stacks. He says that, according to Bing, all their stacks up to this point have been soft-soldered, including balloon stacks, etc. on previous locos like the Moguls, and there has never been a problem. They are at a loss to explain why suddenly this has become an issue - perhaps the factory got hold of some lower teperature solder than had been used before - but are taking appropriate steps (as mentioned above) to make some new silver soldered stacks which they will send out free of charge to anyone who has a problem. The new stacks will take about a month to get. 

Before I again get accused of "being a moderator defending Accucraft", let me say that I'm merely passing along what I was told as general info, and am posting this as a member, not a mod (as I did most, but not all, of my previous stuff in this thread). Fire away Jeff.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Sorry about losing your stack, Jim /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif. At least you took a reasonable approach to the problem. If Jim is the only one who has lost his stack out of all of the locos Accucraft has shipped, that is a very small percentage. And once again, Cliff and Accucraft offer to make things right. That's great Customer Service!


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GaugeOneLines on 07/07/2008 6:05 PM
Robert, 
In answer to your question 'is anyone building coaches for the CPR Hudson?' the answer is an emphatic 'yes!' If you Google 'Wrightway rolling stock' it will take you to Alan and Phyl's website where you can see what's available. If you go to Youtube and type in Accucraft Royal Hudson you can see them running behind the first Hudson alcohol fired prototype on a 34f day back in 2006(!) 
As regards the RH Accucraft are saying October, but insert the usual 'fudge-factor' and I think you will find that to be early December! They are determined to get it right by following Dick Abbott's instructions, and the result should be the most powerful Accucraft ever. The second prototype was handling 18 coaches in 26f weather and running only stopped because the water in the feed pipe from the tender was freezing. 
For you 1/32 runners who are looking for boxcars, Accucraft will start delivering the 40'AAR cars before the end of the year. (that's 2008...I wouldn't BS you about such a serious matter!) 
David M-K 
Ottawa




Thanks! I didn't know this vendor but I'll certainnly follow up - I like the Thompson LNER stock although can't undertand why they should be UKP450 = USD 880 while the RH stock are 'only' USD 650. But I guess that's a topic for another forum! 

Robert


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By GaugeOneLines on 07/07/2008 6:05 PM
Robert, 
In answer to your question 'is anyone building coaches for the CPR Hudson?' the answer is an emphatic 'yes!' If you Google 'Wrightway rolling stock' it will take you to Alan and Phyl's website where you can see what's available. If you go to Youtube and type in Accucraft Royal Hudson you can see them running behind the first Hudson alcohol fired prototype on a 34f day back in 2006(!) 




Bump. 

I posted this information a week ago - see above. 

tac


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Dear Mr Zephyra - the answer to your question is simple. 

The Thompson coaches are far more complex to make than the comparatively simple Canadian Pacific coaches. 

The Thompson coaches have a full-lengh side corridor, are divided into many compartments, each of which has mirrors and teeny replicated scenic prints on either side of the mirrors, replicating the sea-side views of the many destinations available to an island race. 

They also have buffers instead of knuckle couplings, and a complex paint job that I am glad to let Alan do, rather than me. The trucks are also rather more complex than you might imagine as well. 

All-in-all they represent remarkable value, and having seen the GWR stock ar first paw, they will look great behind ANY LNER locomotive. 

tac


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## Alan Wright (Jan 9, 2008)

Well Terry thank you for your kind and candid comments about our coaches. 

You are correct about the amount of work that goes into the Thompson coaches as compared with the CPR cars for the Royal Hudson. Phyl is in charge of the interior details and they have to be Wright!!! 

Our aim has always been to produce a quality scale model that is ready to run give many years of reliable service and pride of ownership at a resonable cost. 

I am sorry that Phyl and I missed this topic on the forum as we could have commented earlier but the coaches and cars keep us very busy. 

We look forward to hearing from members in the future. 

Regards 

Alan and Phyl Wright 

Wrightway Rolling Stock 
Orangeville 
Ontario 
www.wrightwayrollingstock.com


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## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

[I still have one Accucraft UK loco. A heavily modified Excelsior that runs like a dream. Untill those eccentrics and piston valves start to wear. Then where will I get parts from. I feel sorry for Garratt owners. Last batch has been made. A couple of years down the road and they need spares !. Aster are willing to provide spares on a one of basis, are Accucraft ?.] 

Hi, 
No need to feel sorry for me. My Garratt has run many 'miles' in the eighteen months I have had it. It is superb. The only time I needed any spares they were with me in 3/4 days. 
Just ring up Ian Pearce.. 
Thurnby


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