# Automobile battery to run LGB trains...



## Sampug394 (Dec 30, 2010)

I distinctly remember reading in one of several LGB books, that some people have hooked up a fully charged car battery to a temporary outdoor G scale layout, and run trains for an decent length of time. Since LGB locomotives are pretty power efficient, I'm curious if anybody has tried this, or if its really that feasible. I at least figure that modern car batteries probably have longer charge life than the ones around in the 90s or so when the book was printed, but this would be an interesting idea for a layout in a public park or somewhere where AC outlets aren't available. With two batteries, you can have a friend hook one up to the car and juice it up for a little while, while the other one is being used for the layout.

Aside from the known dangers of batteries, (exploding, acid, electrocution, the usual...







) I could see the possibilities of this. Sure you could probably only run one train and no accessories like powered switches, but I'm sure there's still fun that can be had with the setup.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Sounds pretty simple to me, so long as you're comfortable with the speed of the train at a fixed voltage. 

Sounds like a workable method for a person who generally runs track power to temporarily power a remote railway. For longer term, I'd expect onboard battery power with a means to control speed would be preferred.


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## Sampug394 (Dec 30, 2010)

Posted By BigRedOne on 22 Dec 2013 02:10 PM 
Sounds pretty simple to me, so long as you're comfortable with the speed of the train at a fixed voltage. 
A transformer steps down house voltage for safe operation, so it work the same for a battery right? I certainly wouldn't go straight from battery terminals to rails, but I suppose I didn't clarify that earlier.


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

If memory serves, there was an article by someone who setup a layout in an area without AC power lines, and used a car battery with a solar panel to charge it to run the layout. Maybe in Garden Railways mag? 

Jerry


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

A fully charged car battery has _lots_ of amp-hours. I'm sure that you could run multiple trains on one until you were sick of running them before you would wear it down substantially. And there is no reason that you couldn't also use it to power your turnouts and accessories. You would probably want a throttle to vary the speed and direction.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Ah, you plan to connect the input of the throttle to the battery in lieu of a transformer? 

You'll be limited in speed, but should have sufficient capacity to run one train for a weekend without risking damage to the battery. 

Batteries usually have a recommend minimum charge level, drawing below which shortens their life or reduces capacity. So if a given battery is 60 amp-hours, and you decide not to go below 25%, you have 45 amp-hours available - that could be 4.5 amps for ten hours, or 2 amps for 22.5 hours. 

Therefore you can determine if a battery is sufficient to support your operational needs by knowing the current draw of your railway, and the capacity and minimum recommended state of charge of the battery. 

Since large scale models operate at higher voltage, you should see top speed reduced.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Make sure you have some kind of current-limiting device protecting your trains from the battery. If a derailment causes a shirt-circuit, you can melt the rails or the wheels! That 45 amp/hrs mentioned above is also 450 amps for 6 minutes. 

One option is an auto headlamp bulb, rated for 60 or more watts. If you get a short, it will light the bulb. Another is a circuit breaker that pops at 10 amps. You get the idea.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

auto batteries do not like to be cycled that is why they are being charged all the time but a marine battery would be fine. LGB had a out door rheostat that you would hook a battery to and the track. 
Dick


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

A DEEP CYCLE or Solar specific battery will work also... 

However an inexpensive 12volt car charger could be used to keep a normal car battery in its happy place! 

I use to build my own HO power supplies with a 10amp reostat... this would be more than enough to run 1-2 G trains on at the same time.. need more.. add a second reostat..the battery won't notice... 

Have Fun & Merry Christmas, 

Dirk


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

There have been a few threads regarding this:

Anyone using 12VDC batteries for Track Powered Operations 

Off-Grid Garden Railroad Objective 

There was also an article a couple of years ago in GR Magazine about someone doing this, though I can't remember which issue.

Probably a bit of Googling will yield more results.


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Been there, done that, works fine, great for temp layouts in locations with no AC readily 
available... Aristo used to make throttles for owner supplied power sources, sure 
somebody else makes them too nowadays... Car batteries will work fine, but big 
deep cycle batteries R better for this type of service though... Speed may be somewhat 
limited on LGB stuff, but most everybody elses stuff will play just fine... Just be sure 
to put adequate fusing between the battery and the throttle, shorting out unfused hi-cap 
batteries can ruin Ur day rather quickly...
Paul R...


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

When I first started using battery power to control trains, 12 volt gel cel batteries were a great source of on board power. The car battery certainly would be the same principle... 

Most LGB train motors will run very nicely on 12 volts.. The larger locomotives may run a bit slower, but they will run...


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Someone has already mentioned current limiting. Proper fusing or circuit breakers cannot be over stated with the use of a car battery to run your trains.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

this is, what the LGB manual has to say about batteries:

_ Can I use a car battery
to power my layout?
_ Yes. This is a good idea if your layout is far away from a house current
outlet, for example, in a community garden. All you need is a battery, a
fuse and an LGB 51120 Electronic Speed Control.
You can use a regular 12 volt automotive battery or a "deep cycle"
battery, like those made for boats and recreational vehicles. (If you need
more voltage, say for a loco with sound, you can connect two batteries in
series to produce 24 volts.) You can use a regular automotive fuse rated up
to 10 amps.
The connections are simple. Connect the positive terminal on the battery
to the positive terminal on the speed control. Connect the negative
terminal on the battery to the fuse. Connect the fuse to the negative
terminal on the speed control. Then connect the speed control to the
track, as you would normally.
Will the trains drain the battery quickly? Probably not. At full speed, an
LGB loco with a single motor requires less than 18 watts of power, far less
than a household light bulb. Problems? Batteries produce DC only. They
cannot directly provide the AC electricity you need to operate LGB
accessories like switches and signals.


http://kormsen.info/lgb-manual.pdf (at the end of chapter "More Power")

that is, what i did in the early 80s. (with a loudness regulator from an old radio and a switch for changing polarity instead of the outdoor throttle)


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I will put another vote on fusing. A 10 amp fuse or lightbulb in series is definitely a great idea. 

Adding a radio to a car I had, I accidentally touched a long socket extension across the terminals of the battery, and in a loud flash it took a divot out of the hardened steel extension. 

Any controller that uses an external adapter / wall wart / laptop power supply kind of thing that puts out DC will run, and probably most DCC systems as long as it is rated for 12-24 volts. Since the battery can be from 15v on a charger down to 11 volts when it's needs a charge.


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## Sampug394 (Dec 30, 2010)

Digging this thread up again as I have started seriously considering temporary outdoor operation with a deep cycle battery since the small apartment layout is stifling at times... But now I have a ton of questions and would love input from those wiser than me. 

Ideally i'd like to be able to use my Aristo Train Engineer setup (with the wireless remote and receiver), but I fear that hooking the receiver to the battery's terminals would kill an expensive item rather quickly, so I do not wish to test such a setup.

I have been reading about inverters that provide a standard house outlet for electronics whilst hooked to the terminals of a battery, and such a setup would allow me to use the crest/aristo 10amp power supply that keeps the receiver safe and powered properly - But would the battery be alright powering the 10amp supply? How big of an inverter would I need to operate the setup as well?

I have tested a 10amp resettable fuse I purchased, but I have yet to see/hear it pop at 10 amps. It does provide a complete circuit though when wired up, so I know it functions. I am also considering setting up a lightbulb socket on a plank of wood to act as a big (and easily replaceable) fuse as an alternative. Are regular household 60 watt bulbs good enough to be a fuse for train operations? I've read the resistance ability of bulbs allows them to eat up the shorting voltage and thus protect the electronics to an extent. (People use bulbs to protect car stereo systems in various setups.)


The alternative to the train engineer setup is a smaller 3.5 amp crest power supply and speed dial controller. But this leads to a similar question - Is the speed dial safe connected directly to the battery? (Obviously with proper fusing on the negative lead.) Or does it still need the power supply to step down the voltage from the battery? (Thus requiring an inverter in the setup again.)

Apologies for all the questions, but I am very seriously considering setting up an outdoor operation at a public park with a friend. Would also like to prove the feasibility of temporary battery operations so others can try it too.


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## Sampug394 (Dec 30, 2010)

Went ahead and bit the bullet and accomplished a lot yesterday. Bought a used car battery, a bulb housing, a household light switch, wire, and some other bits and assembled a bulb-fuse on an old plank of wood, with the light switch acting as a master power/kill switch for emergency/safety. Hooked up the battery, and found out the 12 volts the one battery is producing is not enough to move even one little LGB locomotive over half throttle. Looks like another 12 volt battery is due to be linked in tandem, which will bring it up to the recommended 24 volt max input the rheostat speed dial (and the crest/aristo receiver, which I found out works just fine with the setup) wants.

Technically the rheostats have been hungry for 4 more volts the whole time, hence the poor performance. (Over half throttle and the power dropped to nothing for several seconds at a time.) But I've now proven the setup works, and its pretty exciting to think of the future possibilities. All I need now is another battery and proper leads, and we should be in business.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Add a simple 5 Amp car fuse and fuse holder in line..that is more than a single loco should need to run..

Look for a fuse holder at your nearest auto parts store...
And ....please...install it in series on the positive line...before or after your power lite switch...
Not the negative lead....

;-)


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

Is your "bulb-fuse" light lighting up? It shouldn't be. You will be much better off to spend $5 or $6 to put a fuse in line with the 12 volt plus lead. While the light will provide a modicum of short circuit protection, it can also act as a resistor and waste power, and it will not provide the continuous protection that a fuse provides. Additionally, when a fuse blows, it shows that you have definitely had an overload. With the lamp, you might miss a short-term overload. This means it could be very difficult to diagnose problems.

Do you have a volt meter (handheld is fine)? What voltage does your battery show (at the battery terminals) when you are trying to run an engine / train? It should show at least 12 volts. In my experience, used car batteries are a really bad deal. They might show 12+ volts when they first come off the charger, but won't keep the voltage up under load. Virtually no one replaces a good battery, thence all 'used' car batteries are suspect.

If you don't have a voltmeter, you can get a digital one from outfits like Harbor Freight for around $10. That way you can verify what your power source (battery) is putting out UNDER LOAD, determine when it needs charging (prior to it being totally run down and thus damaged by the deep discharge), as well as troubleshooting other potential problems with controllers, track, and powered equipment.

While putting a second battery in series to provide 24 volts is okay, but I have run my small LGB equipment for years on a 12 volt, low amperage power supply. They don't go at rocket speeds, but they run well at nominal backwoods velocities.

Happy RRing,

Jerry


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## djacobsen (Jul 20, 2011)

I have a 1000 watt inverter, 12V-DC to 120V AC left over from my days as an OTR truck driver that I've used with a 12V battery to supply power for a temporary layout using both lgb & aristo power supplies. I use an 8 amp fuse between the battery and the inverter. When a permanent layout is built I'll use the inverter, but with a solar cell charged deep cycle marine battery to supply my power needs for my Crest 10 amp power supply. Yes! I love seeing the sparks.......
Happy Rails!
Dave


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## hap (Jan 3, 2008)

I have used 2 12 volt marine batteries linked(jumper from + one battery to - 2nd battery then the + and - not jumped to the TE)so have 24+ volts to the trackside train engineer with a fuse inline from the batteries, works great.(I also use 5 1.5 amp Poly switches installed between TE and track so they trip before 10 amp fuse in TE blows)


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