# MTS decoder installation?



## tjquigley (Jun 1, 2012)

Hey 
I'm new to the site - so this may be old hat - I searched and couldn't find any mention of this. Basically, I bought a beautiful LGB locomotive that doesn't have an MTS decoder or even an interface in it - I thought it did but I was wrong. So I would like to add a decoder so I can get it to run on my MTS layout. Is it hard to do? Are there any "how-tos" anywhere that show what is to be done? It is a 21510 diesel loco. It has two motors. It looks like the Decoder III would be the right choice, but do I need a cable too? Will there be a real wiring diagram in the kit? So far, the LGB documentation has been awful - incomplete and aimed at idiots. I could sure use some info that assumed basic electronics knowledge. Oh well.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance...tjq


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

What digital system do you have to run this engine? MTS, parallel or serial only, or some other system? Can make a difference in decoder selection. 

You need the 55027 if you want to stay with LGB original parts. 
The motor blocks are 3 wire and you must isolate the motor from the track to make the blocks 4 wire for any decoder installation. 
I have done this many times and when isolating the motor blocks, use a meter when done and make real sure there is no connection between either motor lead and track power. 
Check and recheck as you will destroy the decoder if there is a connection between motor and track. 

For the $$$ spent on the 55027 and work involved, I would go with a combo motor/light/sound decoder. everything in one package, one address. 

Zimo has one for around $200 and has programmable sound, and there are others from other vendors. Zimo has the best low speed control. 

You could go the Phoenix route, but you would need about 200 for sound and around a hundred for a good motor/light controller.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Hello TJ: 

There are 2 variants of the LGB 21510, one with a decoder interface (LGB 21510-2) and the other without (LGB 21510-1). Installing a decoder in an LGB with a decoder interface is relatively easy to do particularly in large locomotives like the 21510. Installing a decoder in an LGB locomotive without a decoder in a bit more difficult especially if the locomotive does not have "D" gearboxes, also known as 4-pin gearboxes. 
A "D" gearbox is a gearbox with a "D" engraved on its bottom to indicate that the motor is electrically isolated from the track; the gearbox has 4 pins, 2 for track and 2 for motor. A gearbox Without the "D" marking may have to be converted to a 4-lead gearbox to become suitable for DCC (MTS). Converting a gearbox requires taking the gearbox apart and a bit of soldering. 

Are there 'D" markings on the bottom of your gearboxes? 

Since your 21510 does not have a decoder interface, the LGB 55027 would not be my first choice, it is intended for LGB locomotives with a 10-pin DCC interface. I suggest using the Massoth XL decoder (massoth make the LGB 55027 for LGB), less expensive than the 55027 with more features, and easier to install. The Massoth decoder comes with a good set of instructions. 

I cannot tell from your post whether or not you want sound, but if you do, I would suggest the Massoth XLS decoder instead, equally easy to install in LGB locomotives. 

Mohammed 
http://www.allaboutlgb.com 
http://www.massothusa.com


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## tjquigley (Jun 1, 2012)

I guess I don't know. The system is, as I said, an MTS layout. LGB central station, handheld controller, switches, locos. All are, from wht o can tell, lgb brand. How do I tell if it is not really an lgb MTS but something else? I have read about Massoth and their relationship with LGB. I have not heard of zimo. 

So LGB analog trains are bonded to one rail as return and take control and dc from some on board control. Yes removing the bond would be critical. If that is done, then, How does one get that rail connection to the decoder? I assume the truck (that's the wheel carriage?). Has two contacts, one of which was bonded to the motor? 

Do the decodes, zimo especially, have electrical diagrams? I think with the right level of documentation, I'd be fine. 

Thank you soo much for your reply. I am really enjoying these trains and this site and forum seem great! thanks! 

...tjq


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## tjquigley (Jun 1, 2012)

Oh wow, thank you Mohammed. 

I'm afraid my ignorance is apparent here. I haven't opened up the train, so I don't think I can see the gearbox. The under belly of the train does not have a "D". So I assumed it had neither a decoder nor an interface. I should take it apart and see, but I have been reluctant to mess it up. I will verify the model #.

Yes the Massoth with sound sounds great. As to soldering - I can definitely handle that. I have just been struck by how poor the documentation is on these things so far. Just figuring out how to hook up the central controller, handhelds, lgb bus I/f etc was not clear. But, I've figured it out and successfully programmed switches and a loco and got things working. The train was a gift and mostly used. Maybe I'm missing documents, but the ones I've found online are not all that helpful either. Oh well. 

Thank you so much for your reply.

...tjq


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

hello TJ: 

It probably does need converting to a 4-pin gearbox. If can solder, you can do the conversion if your are patient and methodical.

If you want to get the service and user's manual, you should visit this link: 
http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_pr...0467cf6/453a863bf4467cf8c12568ee00377556.html 

Installing the Massoth XLS once you convert the gearboxes would be as easy as installing the Massoth XL. The locomotive has a speaker cut-out.

Mohammed 
http://www.allaboutlgb.com 
http://www.massothusa.com


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Look at the central station and let us know the model number. 
MTS central stations are : 
55000 Type I serial only and came with a train mouse 
55005 Type II serial only, but upgradable to parallel and a P was added to the model number 
55006 Type III parallel and serial compatible. 

55015 and 55016 were originally serial but parallel versions were made and upgrades were avbailable, again a P was added to these. 

Serial means that function key depresses were sent at 1 second intervals so F7 took 7 seconds to make a function occur. Parallel was almost instant, no delays. 
If you only have a serial command station, then this info can be important for what can be run on your layout (read visitors and non-LGB purchases). 

Any decoder you purchase must be able to perform with 14 speed steps for MTS operation, and possibly serial depending on your model numbers. 

PS, the train mouse is always serial as I understand it.


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## tjquigley (Jun 1, 2012)

I have a: 
- 55000 central station with a 55010 mouse (??) 
- A 55015p hand held controller 
- a 55016 hand controller (unused) 
- A crest 10 power supply and train controller (analog) 

The crest is a ac to dc converter basically and the controller has two outputs- dc and variable dc. The straight dc is connected to the 55000 

- I have an lgb bus unit that connects to the central station for the 55015p to connect to. 
- I've installed 3 switch decoders and 8 switches. 

Althought irrelevant for this discussion, I've just completed the outdoor track with a mountain tunnel, waterfall and lake, two trestle bridges, a cable car skyway to the top of the mountain, and a train station. Pretty cool! I have a track cleaning loco at mts address 3 and a small switcher loco at address 1 and a few sundry cars. 

It appears that the system operates serially, since when executing a switch route command (F3) with multiple switches, the switches are addressed one by one at one second (approximate) intervals. 

Does this help? 

Thanks again for your thoughtful replies...tjq


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Hello TJ: 

It makes no difference if you choose to go with Massoth Decoders. All massoth decoders including the XL and the XLS are fully compatible with all MTS generations; they can handle both serial and parallel control and will operate at 14, 28 and 128 speed-steps. 

BTW, if you need help converting the gearboxes, please fell free to contact me privately; I will gladly guide you through it. 


Mohammed 
http://www.allaboutlgb.com 
http://www.massothusa.com


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Since your system is the 55000, you are serial only and any decoders you buy must be able to do serial. 
MTS, Massoth and Zimo can do this. I hope someone chimes in with others that can do serial communication.


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