# Which scale has the most options to offer?



## SteamDome (Oct 31, 2014)

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum and to large scale trains. I've been thinking about developing a small area of my backyard (12x8) for a garden railroad. I like to know what scale would give me the most options in terms of engine, rolling stock, buildings, people, etc?

I like the idea of steam, but realize electric may be a better option for a beginner? Your thoughts about starting out with steam? I've operated stationary and mobile steam engines for over 40 years. Mainly Jensen, Mamod and Wilesco..


----------



## d_sinsley (Mar 29, 2011)

*I am no expert*

I cant wait to hear the answers to this question. With my limited knowledge (an a whole heck of a lot of personal bias) I would vote for Fn3 or 1:20.3 which is real world US 3 foot narrow gauge. The reason I would say this is because of your small area (and because that's what I model). These prototypically ran small cars, small consists, and will handle pretty tight turns if you stay with small equipment.

Even better would be to model a freelance logging railroad or mining railroad with a small 0-4-0 porter that will really take tight corners. 

As for live steam I no nothing about it and would love to tackle that. think its an advanced sort of affair and if I understand it isn't the best for tight corners.

That's my .01 worth because I don't have 2 cents worth of knowledge.

I suspect your going to get a wide variety of answers


----------



## d_sinsley (Mar 29, 2011)

*this might interest you*

This is a small live steamer project that is in the masters class section and maybe will work for you. Others maybe able to give input.

http://forums.mylargescale.com/27-m...3-masterclasses-articles-index-downloads.html


----------



## SteamDome (Oct 31, 2014)

Thanks for the replies.

I'll checkout the link. I saw from another website plans to make an engine using a Midwest Heritage steam engine kit which I own.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

With a 12 x 8 space to work with, you're definitely well-served by sticking to small locos and a light logging/industrial theme. There are a number of 0-4-0s and similarly sized diesels which would serve you very well in that space. LGB's Porter is a popular loco, likewise their Davenport diesel would work well. Bachmann makes a smaller version of a Davenport diesel which is likewise very well suited to industrial themed railroads, and also two versions of an 0-4-0, both a bit larger than the LGB Porter, but still very popular. Those models are in the 1:22 - 1:20 range. I say "range" because while the box may state a specific scale for the model, (a) the box may not be 100% accurate, and (b) the model works very well in other "nearby" scales as well, as there's little if anything that would be out of scale when measured in related scales. 

If you wanted to try your hand at live steam, Accucraft's "Ruby" and "Dora" are great beginner's locos. WuHu makes an 0-4-0 Porter which is similar in many respects to the Ruby. A Roundhouse "Sammie" is also a solid good first steamer. There's a reason "Runs like a Roundhouse" is a high compliment in the steam world. With your experience with the steam engines you mention, any one of these would pose no troubles at all. These, likewise, are in the 1:22 - 1:20 range for scale. 

Good luck!

Later,

K


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have space in my basement about 12 by 8 and I find the LGB Forney to be a great engine to run as well as the LGB Davenport diesel. I can pull 8 LGB cars about 1 foot in length with no problem with these engines, but 5 look better.


----------



## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

In addition to Kevin's suggestions of live steamers you would enjoy I would encourage that you look at Regner's basic series, Willi, Konrad and Vincent. I have had a blast bashing these simple, generic, oscillator motor locos. They are geared for low speeds, are easy to operate and, in my experience, nearly bulletproof. 
I just ordered another Willi from The Train Department to bash into a steam tram to name for my Granddaughter.
I am currently building my third portable track to take to train shows to demonstrate live steam. It is about 12' x 16' and has 6' radius curves on the outer loop. You might be amazed at what can be run in such a small space. 
Welcome to the hobby,
Tom


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

With a space of 12x8 feet, I would think 1:29th would be your best bet to start with. Not only are there far more small locomotives to choose from, but along with smaller 1:29th frt cars that are available, you can also use some frt cars from 1:32nd scale and even 1:24th so long as you're not a rivet counter. Most frt cars came in varying lengths and heights, so while the 1:24th frt cars might be 1/8th inch wider than a 1:29th frt car and a 1/32nd frt car being 1/8th inch narrower, the length and heights can be acceptable as being close. For me, a string of 1/32nd scale MDC/Piko 2 bay coal hoppers look more impressive on a small layout then does a string of 4 bay 100 ton 29th scale coal hoppers of the same train length.


----------



## SteamDome (Oct 31, 2014)

Wow! Thanks for all the replies. Very helpful info.


----------



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I'd let your own tastes be the guide, here. I like European narrow gauge, so I chose LGB product in 1:22.5 scale. This has, I'd say, good selection - if you want European meter gauge prototype, but not so good if you like US or standard gauge. LGB has been around awhile, and there's good accessory diversity.

Although LGB will accommodate four and five foot diameter curves, even the smaller models really prefer eight foot. Since you only have eight feet, you can't fit eight foot diameter curves. This limits you to small models. If you can expand your space to take eight foot curves, it's better.

If you want to go live steam, or steam and battery powered, then you can save a bundle and get a more realistic appearance by using aluminum track.

Something to watch out for, is that many brands and models in "large scale" are not actually a correct scale or size, and will look weird together.


----------



## d_sinsley (Mar 29, 2011)

BigRedOne said:


> I'd let your own tastes be the guide, here.


 This is the best advice so far. Size does limit you but at the end of the day you have to find what's right for you. 

Hey this is a generic question but is O suitable for outdoor use? If so maybe going down to O will open options for you.


----------



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

In O track, 32 mm instead of the G 45 mm, you can run the Roundhouse steamers. This is two-foot prototype gauge in 1:19 scale. Very common in the UK, and particularly suited if you like small narrow gauge UK models. I think these are often called 16 mm scale. These models are often found as kits, so if one is comfortable building from kits, there is a wide selection.

I believe Regner and Accucraft also make small steamers with gauge-adjustable wheels, to run on either 45 mm or 32 mm track.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Randy, 1:29 might fit the space, but while the scale is smaller, the physical size of the individual locos and cars is likely to be larger than the industrial-sized equipment available in 1:20/1:22. I personally find that it's important--especially in small spaces--that trains not take up a lot of the space so there's the appearance of them having somewhere to go. You could use small locos like a 44-tonner, or maybe USA's or Aristo's "Critter" style locos, and some of Aristo's "shorty" type cars. I'd worry, however, that the typical 2-truck diesels (RS-3, GP-9, etc.) with 6 or 7 40' cars in tow might visually overpower the space. If you keep the trains short (3 - 4 cars) and locos short, then I feel it would be a better visual balance for the space available. 

There's also one other consideration though. With a 12 x 8 space, the biggest you could fit would be an oval of 4' radius curves (which are actually just under 4'), with 4' of straight track between the curves. There's no room for a passing siding with that configuration, and the best you could do would be a few short spurs. If you're looking for operational interest or to create a sense of two destinations, that's very limiting. Going with tighter curves (2' or 2.5') would give you the flexibility for a more complex track plan with a few passing sidings and industrial spurs. Curves like that look most realistic when the equipment running over them is of a very short, industrial nature. Small 1:29 locos like the "critters" and short (20 - 30') industrial-themed rolling stock would work well in this environment, but the larger diesels and 40' cars don't look very good on curves that tight.

Later,

K


----------



## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

SteamDome

With your smaller area one scale you probably want to avoid is 7/8n2. While the rolling stock is impressively large in this scale your space is a bit small. Also you really are limited as to available equipment and most modelers end up scratch building all of their rolling stock.


----------



## SteamDome (Oct 31, 2014)

I have much to learn, but that's a good thing. I think my initial idea of 12 x 8 space is too small. I'm now thinking of running track around the perimeter of my backyard. The spacing between lawn and fence and house and lawn is approximately 30". I just wonder if this new idea of mine isn't more than I can chew at least in the initial stage? What are you thoughts for someone starting out? Are there books or articles on the topic you can suggest? I don't want something so small and limiting that my interest fades yet I don't want to go overboard and become discourage.


----------



## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

One very succesful layout of the type that might appeal to you is Kevin Strong's (East Broad Top) in Colorado. Keven and Alison have two young children so there is plenty of play space and plenty of railroad for Kevin. I don't know the dimensions of his back yard or railway but I'm sure he will chime in now that I've given him a compliment. 
Best,
Tom


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

SteamDome said:


> ...I don't want something so small and limiting that my interest fades yet I don't want to go overboard and become discourage.


That's a healthy attitude from which to start. I've been there with the "bit off more than I can chew" railroad, as Tom can attest. He used to run on my topsoil dragon that never really developed into the railroad I wanted it to. When I moved to Colorado--into mass suburbia--my space available became a lot smaller, as did my railroad. It became much more manageable as a result, and I get a lot more enjoyment out of it.

A perimeter-style railroad is fairly common, as it gives you space for trains, a little bit of border interest for a garden around the main living space of the yard, and--perhaps most importantly if you go fully around the back yard--the ability to use fairly wide curves. (To say nothing of keeping the yard open for kids and dogs.)

As Tom wrote, my railroad is built in that style, except that I'm using two reverse loops on either end so it's more "U" shaped than a closed loop running around the entire yard. (There was just a bit too much elevation change between the back corner of the yard to permit a closed loop and keep my grades under 2.5%.) 










My back yard is about 30' x 60', so I'm guessing probably very similar in nature to yours. If yours is such that you can go with a closed loop around the perimeter, I'd probably build a 3' deep garden area around the perimeter for plants, track, and scenery. That's pretty manageable in terms of landscaping, and gives you enough on either side of the track where you can have a good mix of plants and still have room for the trains. 

In terms of books on building a garden railroad, why yes... yes there is!  (Gratuitous self promotion)



*This is a book* I released last Summer. It's a compilation of some of the "Garden Railway Basics" articles I've written for Garden Railways over the years. It covers different construction techniques, maintenance, control systems, etc. 

Later,

K


----------



## SteamDome (Oct 31, 2014)

Thank you Tom and thank you Kevin. I was thinking in terms of a circular layout, but Kevin's layout has opened my eyes to other possibilities. I just ordered the book.


----------

