# Polk's GeneratioNeXt - Part 2?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Back on 11-28-2013 a topic was started with the same name.

It started with: 

*Hi Everyone, I have gone ahead and started a new company, Polk's GeneratioNeXt. We will start by continuing to manufacture the full line of Arist-Craft track. I'm trying my hardest to continue the entire line of trains as well. A new website is being built and should be ready the first week of the new year but we will open for business January 2nd. There will be a lot more info to come. Spread the word. Oh yeah, I found a container of track and it should be here the middle of January. ... With your support I know this will be a success. Thank you for everything. Scott

Dick*

I just noticed an ad in the June 2015 Garden Railways (page 59) for Polk's GeneratioNeXt 0-4-0 steam locomotives.

http://polksgenerationext.com

That topic dug up a lot of old history that, as a usually satisfied owner of AristoCraft products, put a dark cloud over what I consider to be good news.

My Garden Railways subscription had expired so I don't know if this is a new ad or a repeat ad.

I bought six of the 0-4-0s when they were being closed out. They turned out to be a pretty nice little trains and the Revolution socket made it super easy to put Revolutions with sound in them. The sound was surprisingly good.

What is important to me is that AristoCraft track and hopefully an assortment of spare parts should once again become available.

I look forward to seeing what else becomes available from Polks GenerationeXt. The ad seems to confirm that Scott is continuing with the plans he stated in his post above.

I wish him luck. IMHO Aristo-Craft/Polk's should continue to be an important part of this hobby. My layouts could not exist without them and future development may depend on future products from them.

Jerry


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, I think you'll be waiting a long time. As far as I can tell, Aristo won the race to the bottom and the momentum of the debt train that followed is keeping them pinned to the tracks. He who holds the molds, holds the gold, and I don't think it's any of the Polk family.
Sorry to be negative but I think that you will have to look to others like MLGB, Piko, AML etc. as options for the future. 
If you happen to like Swiss prototypes, the last few years have been great and getting better all the time: MLGB has been coming out with very detailed rolling stock at very fair prices, now you have ESU with their Pullman brand....as far as I can tell it's a great time to be in Large Scale. We just had a large train show locally, and it's definitely a buyer's market right now...lots still out there.

Regards,
Keith


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sorry to inform you, but things aren't that rosy.
Scott is MIA and Kadar the Chinese Owner has upped production costs by 40%. 
The present GR ad appears to be old stock from Aristo, not by his hand. 
Crest Electronics owns the Revo, that's Navin's split.
We all wish Scott well, but don't hold your breath.
John


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

From all indications, Scott has disappeared.......


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

The ad in the magazine was paid for several months ago. He hardly even stayed at the ECLSTS long enough to wrinkle the covering of the table in his one table booth. Many people have tried to contact him; some with prepaid orders. This subject has been well discussed over at LSC. All that is left it seems, is a wide open door for all sots of speculation. Young Scott seemed to think he could do all his business using Faces Book, so no real contact with the general public was/is possible. He is not answering any messages.
As for parts; there is a small aftermarket industry starting. Some parts are available. Over at LSC several people have found parts by contacting Navin. Another place where some parts are listed is at the OVGRS web page. Then of course, people are becoming inventive, and finding ways to repair a lot of problems themselves with the help found over at LSC.....and here too, I guess.

Fred Mills


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Stuff happens...

LGB of course went bankrupt but at least Marklin is making an effort at a comeback and with Ron Gibson I have high hopes for them. The important thing for/to me is that LGB made their stuff so well that even after all these years 99% still runs fine and if something breaks I can usually fix it so I don't lose sleep over it. There were a few LGB products that I was not happy with but the fun I have had has made up for the few problems.

Aristo was never (in my mind) equal to LGB but they were nowhere near the price range and for the money I always felt I got good value for what I spent. Even now 95% of my Aristo stuff still runs fine. Like others, over the years there were some products that were not satisfactory so I bought something else instead.

Last week I bought 3 Bachmann and 1 Aristo freight cars. The Bachmann was what I expected from Bachmann and the Aristo was what I expected from Aristo.

I think LGB filled a niche no one else will ever come close to and Aristo (complete with warts) has filled a niche no one else will ever come close to. 

I could probably name just as many problems I've had with Bachmann, USAT and Accucraft but I think they too have filled a special niche for us. 

All I am saying is that I want them ALL to stay in business and make money and continue to make new stuff for us. 

In my opinion there is too big a void in the hobby now with all the unique stuff Aristo made not to have someone eventually pick up where Aristo left off.

I wish there was still a Richter running LGB and I hope that there will be a Polk in the future running Aristo-Craft because I think family businesses tend to care more about their customers than corporations.

Perhaps most important to me is that it can be difficult to get couplers to work together when brands are mixed and some brands can be quite difficult to fit LGB/USA/Bachmann hook & loop or LGB knuckle couplers to.

Fortunately I expect my Ariso stuff, along with my LGB stuff to outlive me. What more could I ask for?

Thanks Wolfgang, Thanks Lewis.

Jerry


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't run my train much at least compared to some of you, but my biggest concern is getting parts when one breaks. I'd love to get a Mallet but there is no way I'll buy one at this point when no parts are available. While in York this past March, I bought two gear sets for my LGB Moguls. Nothing wrong with them right now but I'd rather have them sitting her for years than have the Moguls sitting here needing gears that are no longer available. I guess I really should be looking for spare parts for my FA1 and RS3s, but it's probably too late.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Tough to get parts if the manufacturer is out of business and the item is unique.
Maybe 3-D printing will be a help eventually.

Fortunately LGB mnaged to weather the storm so those parts are becoming more and more available - and there is a huge amount on ebay every day to cannabalize.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

The post today by Jerry is a well balanced review of how large scale is today. Apart from a loose wire on an FA-1, sourced from the USA as opposed to UK, I have had no issues with any of my Aristo diesels. I don;t have Aristo steam outline, just two Bachmann later version 10 wheelers which are fine - if kept within their working tolerance.

There is some Aristo still on UK dealers shelves and of course a few spares still to be had. There is a reasonable amount of used Aristo available which, providing the price wanted is sensible, can be ideal for spares. I have four or five Aristo cars that I had intended to sell but will keep for spares and the bodies maybe for kitbashing.
When Aristo announced closure I did take the precaution of ordering spares such as springs and other bit and bobs as I knew they would become scarce.

It is good to see that there are some spared being made and offered on the famous OVGRS web site.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Theres been ALOT of discussion about this on the other site, it boils down to the most likely scenario:
>Kader (99.9% probability) OWNS the tooling for ALL of Aristo products (possibly USAt btw) 
>Scott retains ownership of the rights to market Aristo named products.
This is a standard business practice for chinese mfr. the mfr owns the means of production, the client pays for the name and marketing for those specificly tooled and labeled products.
>Kader will by all appearances, NOT take any new orders for Aristo labeled products, until all of the products Kader produced for Lewis has been paid for.
>Kader also just bumped the starting price for new product 40%, that ACROSS THE BOARD and affects EVERY company that was relying on Kader to produce product for the (read USAt). 
> Bachmann, being owned by Kader, should not effected by this bump, but it remains to be seen if Kader also raises prices on its own products as well.
Basically the days of cheap trains from China are GONE! When Bachmann's street price for the C19 is $800, for an engine that's NOT that much different than the Connie which was $250 street, thats not the way to grow the hobby. In regards to Aristo, the 0-4-0/caboose set price, from Scott's site, is $320, add Kader's new increase brings it to $460.00 add shipping and taxes that's close enough as makes no difference to $500!
$500 bucks for a starter engine? LGB isn't any better, their basic Porter MSRP is $350, for an starter set engine I once paid only $75 for. The ONLY difference being the electronics boards that IMHO have done nothing but drive prices up to unreasonable levels

Sorry folks but at those prices alone, I dont see much of a broad future for Aristo, GeneratioNext, USA or Bachmann if Bmann also bumps prices accordingly. If large scale continues its going to be MUCH more like the days when LGB was the only game in town, by that I mean, EXCLUSIVE. not a broad hobby, but a specialized limited hobby for those who can afford the high price of trains, track and support. 

Maybe in the long run, that's the ONLY way large scale will survive. Because maybe the ONLY way we are going to get rugged reliable outdoor quality trains who's wheels don't fall off like my goddam Aristo 0-4-0 did, is to pay threw the nose. But that goes back to the manufacturers, IF they produce rugged LGB quality products then paying top dollar may not be a bad thing, but if they keep making the same cheap questionable quality product that breaks or has QC problems out of the box like we've been plagued with for over a decade, something AC & Bmann have been notorious for, yet still claim the higher pricing we are seeing today, then the gauge is doomed to retract to a couple brands that people will trust, because people will NOT pay top dollar for problem plagued product.
All this is just my personal observations.


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## mjltuk (Jan 3, 2008)

Does anyone have an email address for a real person at Polk's GeneratioNeXt? I'm getting nowhere trying to use their website to progress a parts order placed weeks ago.


They have the money and I am not impressed.

mike


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

Maybe if you posted a note telling what parts you need, here and over at LSC, you might get some help. It would also help if you used your real name, and gave some indication where you live....just a hint.

There are lots of helpful people around, but you have to help a bit too....

Fred Mills, Ottawa


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

A C19 is not much different from a Connie?

I own a C19 and owned a Connie - there's a world of difference!

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Seriously, with the lack of response, I'd get my credit card company to reverse the charges.

Try getting your parts from Navin at Crest-electronics.com

over and out...

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I would agree with Robert with respect to comparing the Bachmann "Connie" to the C-19. There's a night-and-day difference between the two. That's not to say the "Connie" isn't a great loco in its own right (known foibles notwithstanding) but the C-19 is leaps and bounds ahead of it in terms of detail and engineering. Bachmann's recent production stuff is every bit as reliable as LGB. I've run the snot out of my C-19, Climax, and (kitbashed) 45-tonner. They are in my opinion very much in the same league as LGB with regard to value for the dollar, and arguably superior with regard to prototype accuracy and detail. 

Whether the hobby can "survive" with models at just that price point is an interesting mental exercise, but I don't see that as a practical reality. I just bought a new LGB loco (made in Hungary) from Trainworld for $160. (Vic, they have the Porter for $140!) There was a Piko catalog included in the box with some pretty cool US-prototype stuff. $260 for their mogul, with cars around $80 give or take. Hartland's producing much of the old Kalamazoo stuff, with cars in the $30 - $60 range.Bachmann's "Big Hauler" stuff is still rolling off the production lines, too. That's all stuff that's currently being produced, not old stock sitting unsold. What you get for that money is no less a good value than what you get at the higher price points. It's not as "scale" or as detailed as the higher-dollar stuff, but it's not designed to be. It's targeted at the entry-level hobbyist who wants to have some fun, or perhaps the modeler who wants to start with some basic building blocks and go from there. 

What's this got to do with Aristo? "Value." Whether or not Aristo can get back on its feet will depend almost entirely on whether a re-invigorated Aristo can convince the consumer that its products are a good value for the money. It doesn't really matter where on the price spectrum they fall, they have to be perceived as worth the money no matter how much or how little. 

Later,

K


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I bought a Piko starter set for $350 (shipped) and it was pretty good for what I paid (in my opinion). Having Piko start producing large scale I think says that the hobby has a future. As far as Aristo making a comeback, we'll have to wait and see.

The manufacture of trains in China was always going to be problematic, and not just for Aristo. Think about the hit LGB's quality reputation took when they moved production to the PRC. And letting someone else hold the means of production hostage is not a good thing. How do you survive the ups and downs any industry experiences if someone's got you by the short and curlies and won't let go?

As far as I can tell, the only way to get any quality out of PRC manufacturers is to have a westerner on-site (or regularly visiting) doing the quality control. Cutting corners, loose adherence to specifications, and ignoring contracts seem to be a cultural thing there (see: lead paint in children's toys, melamine in milk, counterfeit products, and so forth) 

However, it seems unlikely to me that Bachmann, Aristo (or any Chinese-sourced product) is going to be able to charge LGB prices for New Bright quality. They may _want_ to charge those prices, but why would anyone pay $350 for a something of questionable quality when they can just buy Piko/LGB for the same price? The reason people accept Harbor Freight quality is because the get Harbor Freight prices. While some stuff (the C19 referenced above) is doubtless better constructed than others, most companies can't survive by selling a premium product if their overall reputation of quality is low. Would you buy a luxury Yugo, even if you knew that particular model was well made?

Rolling stock I think is the exception. With no moving parts (except the wheels/trucks) quality is somewhat less of an issue. And as a basis for kit bashing, it makes sense to chop up a Newqida car rather than an LGB one. When it comes to something with a gear train, it's trickier to sell questionable quality.

Honestly, I don't see this situation lasting. Either the quality gets better, the prices go down, or the manufacturers of low-quality stuff eventually go out of business.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

East Broad Top said:


> I would agree with Robert with respect to comparing the Bachmann "Connie" to the C-19. There's a night-and-day difference between the two. That's not to say the "Connie" isn't a great loco in its own right (known foibles notwithstanding) but the C-19 is leaps and bounds ahead of it in terms of detail and engineering. Bachmann's recent production stuff is every bit as reliable as LGB. I've run the snot out of my C-19, Climax, and (kitbashed) 45-tonner. They are in my opinion very much in the same league as LGB with regard to value for the dollar, and arguably superior with regard to prototype accuracy and detail.
> 
> 
> Later,
> ...


Usually I agree with you and overall my repair experience with Bachmann has been good but to say "Bachmann's recent production stuff is every bit as reliable as LGB."my experience with their Connie has been very different. I don't know what is meant by "(known foibles notwithstanding)" as I was unaware of any problems when I bought a Connie.

The Connie was used when I bought it but it looked and ran fine. Unfortunately, along with the rest of 1:20.3 stuff, it did not fit on my layout so I ended up selling it to a friend.

He had it less than a week before the drive system failed. He sent it to Bachmann and the new drive gears failed again. There was something I read about metal vs plastic gears and he hoped to get the metal gears but when it arrived with new drive gears they failed once again and I think he got the last set of replacement drive gears.

Even my LGB Mikados with the original drive gears have never failed but at least I knew of the problems so bought replacement gears when I heard LGB was shutting down.

Since we are only comparing experiences with two Bachmann Connies (one good, one bad) I have no idea how this reflects other Bachmann Connies. I believe Bachmann intends to continue providing good service but my impression is that some parts may be in short supply.

Bachmann Spectrum probably will always outshine LGB when it comes to detail but I suspect LGB will always outshine Bachmann and others when it comes to the quality of materials used and the ability to survive for decades in a damp environment. We just have different preferences. I prefer high quality plastic with fewer parts to break or lose and less detail that means more common parts shared between various models. It all depends on how we choose to define "best."

I no longer own any Bachmann locos or Aristo C-16s or Delton C-16s - not because they were not good (their new owners love them) but because they were not designed for my damp environment with some R1 curves and turnouts. A couple of Aristo Connies remain. They may all be Connies but In my opinion they are Apples, Oranges, Peaches and Pears. Even the Delton C-16 was very different from the Aristo C-16. The Delton was metal while the Aristo was plastic.

Everyone wins.

Jerry


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, Kevin referenced the C19 as a comparison to LGB. I have both and Kevin is correct, the quality and running characteristics of the C19 matches or exceeds that of LGB.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Vic


Indeed products produced in China are going up as the country changes. Just read the news, the cheap labor pool is drying up, wages are increasing, social security and the like are now part of life and companies are competing for workers. Factories used to make the trade for more workers rather then automation. Now automation is becoming more cost effective then more workers.


LGB for example now produces in Hungary because it now costs less to produce outside China.


The points you make have become popular internet comments but perhaps under closer examination yield different results.


Molds for example. When you produce a product in most places who owns the molds is a point to be negotiated. If you own the molds you have more up front cost but lower repeat use cost. LGB for example owned their own molds while other companies have decided not to own the molds. And I know of several cases where molds were purchased at a later date and moved to a different production company and other cases where is was less expensive to make new molds.


Another example of a popular comment is quality. LGB made its mark with quality products but at a price. Other manufacturers now make products that far exceed the LGB quality standards. For example lets compare your example of the Bachmann Connie with the Bachmann C19.


Put a big load on the Connie and you can and do burn out the motor, the gears have a long history of cracking, the pilot derails, the stock couplers do not work very well, the chuff sensor is not that reliable, ..... Good example of the cost quality tradeoff made many years ago and clearly not up to the LGB quality standards. Now put a BBT drive in it, fix the problems and replace the couplers and you have a great running locomotive but also at a much greater price.


Now look at the C-19. A totally different class of locomotive. Large 19 volt Pittman motor, Great gear box, chuff that actually works, Plug and Play electronics, Runs like a champ right out of the box and requires little maintenance. Yes it costs more but its quality out of the box exceeds LGBs quality.


The hobby is changing. With the low price option fading companies are now investing more in quality to attract the consumer. The future, who knows but I suspect the place of manufacturer over time will change again and with production standards changing I suspect that once the transition takes place a lot will change.

I truly hope GeneratioNext survives. Likely to do so they will have to invest in increased quality and that takes money and likely new investors.

Stan


PS contrary to popular belief Kader did not produce all Aristo products. Track for example (and the corresponding molds) is produced at another company.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

OK Stan thanks for the clarifications, 
Yeah the C19 is way better built than the Connie, I wanted to make a point about how much prices have gone up for plastic engines, the C19 is skirting brass prices. Its good but I'm uncertain if it's worth a 3x price increase though but then I'm poor and can't afford much of anything anymore. I think the best screaming deal out there are the newest Annie's and the Lil Haulers, which I've been making a small stockpile of.

Kader's future business moves are a bit like watching North Korea, you never know whats going to happen next except that I'm sure it will be surprising.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

vsmith said:


> OK Stan thanks for the clarifications,
> Yeah the C19 is way better built than the Connie, I wanted to make a point about how much prices have gone up for plastic engines, the C19 is skirting brass prices. Its good but I'm uncertain if it's worth a 3x price increase though but then I'm poor and can't afford much of anything anymore. I think the best screaming deal out there are the newest Annie's and the Lil Haulers, which I've been making a small stockpile of.
> 
> Kader's future business moves are a bit like watching North Korea, you never know whats going to happen next except that I'm sure it will be surprising.


Indeed prices are going up including brass prices. New Acccucraft electric locomotives are approaching 3000 and live steam 5000 and alas the discounts are not large.

Stan


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

StanleyAmes said:


> put a BBT drive in it,


Hi Stanley,

That was my 1st thought after the Connie failed the 2nd time.

I called Barry but found that he is/was semi-retired and did not have any drives available for the Connie.

Sometimes the greener grass does not turn out to be so green. 

I bought an 1:29 electric Accucraft/AML 0-6-0 and AML stock cars to go with it. They are very nicely made but I have yet to figure out how to get either the 0-6-0 or stockcars to accept LGB or USA or Bachmann or Aristo-Craft hook & loop or knuckle couplers. Kadees might be made to fit but that is of no value to me because body mount couplers would never work on my layouts.

If I recall correctly I never did get the 0-6-0 to fit well with the stockcars. I talked with Cliff and it seems their market has moved away from electric and from 1:29.

There is no point in getting upset. The 0-6-0 was at a great price as were the stock cars. I don't regret buying them - I just need to adapt to their limitations (from my viewpoint). 

Not only is there a shortage of new Large Scale products but there is also (in my opinion) a dwindling number of folks willing and able to do the repairs, modifications and construction to keep the existing Large Scale trains up and running.

I never was qualified to do custom work but even if parts were available my fixing stuff days are coming to an end and I suspect the same is true of others in the over 65 age group.

I'm afraid to run my metal locos because I have no idea how I would fix any of them if they derailed or I dropped them and they were damaged. 

Just picking them up to carry them down and put them on the tracks is more risk than I am willing to take.

Marty is the only one I've ever seen actually run his USAT Big Boy outside with any frequency. He has a lot more guts than I have.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Jim Agnew said:


> Jerry, Kevin referenced the C19 as a comparison to LGB. I have both and Kevin is correct, the quality and running characteristics of the C19 matches or exceeds that of LGB.


Hi Jim,

Apparently I missed your point and Kevin's.

I don't know much about Bachmann products and I did not realize there was a Connie and a C19.

I guess one may be an inside frame and the other and outside frame but frankly I don't know what that means. I don't know the difference between a K27 and a K28 or an LGB or Aster Mikado. 

I apologize for any misunderstanding.

To my mind 2-8-0 is a Connie and a Connie is a 2-8-0.

It never occurred to me that a Bachmann C19 was not a Bachmann Connie.

In my case anything that is 1:20.3 will not fit through the hole in my house to get to the outside layout so I pay no attention to anything that is 1:20.3

It's kind of like a Hummer. Years ago I looked at one and immediately realized that as fantastic as it was, I did not fit in it and it was too wide for the trails in the Arkansas woods I used to hunt from.

I just play with toy trains. I don't pay much attention to whether they are accurate reproductions or just toy trains.

Regards,

Jerry


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> 
> In my case anything that is 1:20.3 will not fit through the hole in my house to get to the outside layout so I pay no attention to anything that is 1:20.3
> ...


Jerry

A C-19 is a small narrow gauge 2-8-0 locomotive. A C-19 is much smaller than a K-27 which is smaller then a K-36 which is tiny next to a Big Boy.

I have a photo of a very large 3 truck shay at Cass next to a huge 3 truck shay.

A C-19 in 1:20.3 is likely smaller than a 2-8-0 standard gauge locomotive in 1:29

My point is that scale is only one indicator as to whether or not a locomotive will fit on a layout.

Send me your minimum clearance and minimum curve and I will let you know if a C-19 would work on your layout.

Stan


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

StanleyAmes said:


> Jerry
> 
> A C-19 is a small narrow gauge 2-8-0 locomotive. A C-19 is much smaller than a K-27 which is smaller then a K-36 which is tiny next to a Big Boy.
> 
> ...


Hi Stanley,

Most of my trains are 1:22.5 (LGB) 1:24 (Hartland and Pola & Piko & Model Power buildings I think) to 1:26 (LGB) to 1:29 (LGB, Aristo, USA, Accucraft) to 1:32 (MTH). I have never measured the scale of anything but this is what I have read.

To my eyes both MTH & Accucraft 1:32 or Bachmann & Accucraft (?) 1:20.3 are too small or too large to look right or intermix with my other toy trains. This is not to say there is anything. wrong with them.

I bought into LGB's floating scale of from 1:22.5 (Moguls, Forneys & Stainz) to 1:26 (F7 & Mikado ?) to 1:29 modern rolling stock (with matching Aristo & USA rolling stock). Now I simply want anything I buy to look right when it is next to comparable LGB stuff.

One of the greatest trains I've seen was a 1:20.3 D&RGW K something pulling matching coaches at Diamondhead. I think it was Accucraft. My reaction was "Wow - That is fantastic" and "Wow - that would never fit on my layouts." 

I don't claim to be right. I just have a visual impression when I look at something new that it will either look right or not look right (to me) on my layouts. 

I have enough trouble coupling LGB to a Aristo to USA to even think about coupling anything to 1:32 or to 1:20.3.

My building and buying days are pretty much over so (from a manufacturer's/seller's viewpoint) the truth is that really doesn't matter much what I think anymore.

Jerry


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Jerry, you are in the same boat as many large scale modelers in this country IMHO. Layout originaly built around LGB scale with a tough of Aristo and USA thrown in. At this stage you are "tapped out" in there is nothing you really "need" to buy to enjoy your trains unless something breaks or wears out. While parts isnt a huge business right now, I think it will grow into one in the near future for one or two companies. We saw this for most of the late 80s, 90's and early 2000's for Lionel/American Flyer when that collecting and operating craze was in full swing. Worn out trains were coming out of the attic or closet and needed reworked to run again. I think we will see some of that again, but instead of coming out of the closet, it will be just wear and tear of running them. Original CAD drawings or even the original company isnt needed, wasnt need for the Lionel reproduction parts. Just someone able to afford and willing to duplicate common wear parts and sell them at a price that the modeling public can afford. Maybe with a steady full time job, Scott should look into that in a year or two, producing the parts to keep the trains his family produced/imported running for years to come. While it wouldnt be a huge cash cow, might just break even, it would preserve the legacy started by the Polks so many years ago. Mike


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Mike,

I think you nailed it. As a kid I had an American Flyer steam loco and the wiring between the cab and tender became frayed and damaged from so much use. I had neither the knowledge nor tools (or any money) to fix it so it went into a closet somewhere never to be used again.

With the limited parts situation I am sure that an ever increasing number of trains will be damaged by wear, operations and physical handling. Unless there are (reasonably) economical services, parts and service, those trains will probably end up in the trash.

Others (like mine) that are in a small or rural market area will probably be lost because the family will have no idea what things are worth and what to do with them.

I have a friend Al, who has the best idea. He runs his trains eight hours a day every day. He is the only one I know who literally wears his trains out.

My trains have had very little running time. I intend to reverse that and, over the next few years, run the wheels off them.

Aside from breakage, I probably have enough parts to keep things going a long time. My greatest fear is dropping something and breaking irreplaceable parts. 

Perhaps 3-D printing will make it possible to create replacement plastic parts but what the heck do people do when they damage or break parts to their metal locos? I doubt there are many replacement metal parts available - especially for discontinued metal or live steam locomotives? I hardly run them anymore because they are too heavy to carry up and down the stairs. Even with the original shipping cartons I'd be afraid to ship them anywhere either for repair or to sell them on eBay.

I guess it's supply and demand. Is there enough shortage of supply to create a sufficient demand to motivate someone to address the demand?

Time will tell,

Jerry


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry

My solution to the Aristo coupler problem, was to remove them and use either a USAT or Kadee. I have a mixture of couplers; Kadee "G", Delton, Bachmann, USAT, and LGB knuckle couplers on my 1:22.5/24 and 1:29 rolling stock.

I do not have any problems with them coupling. The only problems were with the Aristo ones.

Chuck


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,
I have inventoried my train stuff, mostly and given it to my wife with phone numbers of places that buy trains. Trainz is one, Kidman's does as does Silver State trains. The local club could be a good place for selling estate items. My kids want one for themselves and maybe the grandkids as a reminder.
Like Chuck I am all Kadee, could not stand the Aristo couplers-although they sell well on ebay. I have quite a few trains, so if one wears out and I can't fix it, can just run another. Some people already make some Aristo parts and I'm sure more will spring up as 3-D printing(them mold/cast from them.) 
I think you and I are of the age(71) that our stuff will last as long as we do. Plus, we may move in a couple of years and I would not rebuild a layout, too old. Having troubles maintaining the one I have.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

chuck n said:


> Jerry
> 
> My solution to the Aristo coupler problem, was to remove them and use either a USAT or Kadee. I have a mixture of couplers; Kadee "G", Delton, Bachmann, USAT, and LGB knuckle couplers on my 1:22.5/24 and 1:29 rolling stock.
> 
> ...


Hi Chuck,

I usually have few problems coupling LGB, USAT and Aristo trains until I get to the newer ones (almost anything relatively new from Aristo) that will not even accept the manufacturer's hook & loop couplers. Hook & Loops handle my curves far better than the knuckle couplers. I was surprised to discover that at least some of my USAT stuff with USAT hook & loop couplers do not have the same coupler height as LGB or Aristo stuff with LGB hook & loop couplers.

Delton/Aristo Classics were a totally different problem (MTH too) and I usually couple Aristo rolling stock with Aristo knuckle couplers or where possible with LGB hook & loop couplers. When that fails I go with LGB knuckle couplers (the new ones work pretty well).

Aristo freight cars can be a challenge to put LGB or USAT hook & loop couplers on because the tongue is so short that a decent mount would put part of the coupler mount (binding) under the axles. I get around it by drilling a new screw hole but it is too close to the original mount hole to make me comfortable and sometimes it can be difficult for my old eyes to center the new hole correctly.

Both new Aristo and new Bachmann knuckle couplers stay coupled (to themselves) far better than their old ones.

Kadees have never worked well for me and they frequently are not available for the trains where I need them.

I would also have to cut off or bend the "hoses" as they snag on my LGB track magnets. I also have problems with them staying coupled when they enter or depart my steep ramps (enter again the hose snagging problem).

I have found the USAT and LGB hook & loop couplers identical but the Bachmann hook & loops much more likely to disengage - especially on sharp curves and ramps. If needed I will at times put LGB hooks into Bachmann loops which helps a lot.

Bachmann knuckle couplers will not re-center unless on a Bachmann truck with the hole for the centering pin.

I don't remember why I quit using USAT knuckle couplers but I think it had to do with the height.

Actually I've forgotten why I do most things these days. If I got it to work in the past I leave it alone and try to avoid "new" stuff that might have "new" problems (from my perspective).

Sitting here I am looking at 3 Bachmann & 1 Aristo freight cars that will not couple with each other (of course). I don't know what I will do with them but it will have to include replacing their couplers with something. They will probably all end up with LGB hook & loop couplers.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Jerry Barnes said:


> Jerry,
> I have inventoried my train stuff, mostly and given it to my wife with phone numbers of places that buy trains. Trainz is one, Kidman's does as does Silver State trains. The local club could be a good place for selling estate items. My kids want one for themselves and maybe the grandkids as a reminder.
> Like Chuck I am all Kadee, could not stand the Aristo couplers-although they sell well on ebay. I have quite a few trains, so if one wears out and I can't fix it, can just run another. Some people already make some Aristo parts and I'm sure more will spring up as 3-D printing(them mold/cast from them.)
> I think you and I are of the age(71) that our stuff will last as long as we do. Plus, we may move in a couple of years and I would not rebuild a layout, too old. Having troubles maintaining the one I have.


Hi Jerry,

We think a lot alike and yes, I too am 71 now. 

Like you I am in the process of inventorying and also in the process of running the trains as much as possible. 

I too have had to move way back on using the outside layouts. They remain in good condition other than outdoor carpeting (grass ) needing to be replaced. Fortunately I switched to Aristo stainless track when it came out so the track itself is in good shape. Even so it is a challenge to carry stuff outside to run so I seldom do. 

The good news for me is that I live on a hill and my primary layout is in the crawl space under our house. The track & turnouts are all LGB brass and about a good as new. Although unheated and uncooled I do run dehumidifiers and rust is virtually nonexistent (since I sold the few metal locos I had there). Between LGB locos and some Aristo and USAT diesels everything remains in great shape.

My "plan" is to live here until I am (we are) forcibly removed by ambulance or hearse. Our kids do not want to live with us and we do not want to live with them. If it comes to a nursing home I think I will walk around (or roll my wheelchair around) a golf course in a thunderstorm carrying a nice metal umbrella. 

I had our insurance agent out a couple of weeks ago and was assured that if a tornado or fire hits I should be OK (her husband took a lot of photos). Now, how does one attract a tornado? 

The house is paid for, hopefully the kids will inherit it, the outside layout is mounted on composite decking which is supported by 4"x 4"s imbedded in concrete. If I am lucky, I will die in my sleep and someone else will have to deal with it. 

BTW, Your timing and information is PERFECT!!!

I told Marilyn about the big Aristo auction in PA and her reaction was "don't just tell me about it, tell me WHO!"

I have now copied your post, printed it and I am about to give the copy to her. If I die next week you will probably be getting a phone call from Marilyn (remember the name). 

Jerry

PS I hope you are doing very well.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Toney said:


> Jerry, you are in the same boat as many large scale modelers in this country IMHO. Layout originaly built around LGB scale with a tough of Aristo and USA thrown in. At this stage you are "tapped out" in there is nothing you really "need" to buy to enjoy your trains unless something breaks or wears out. While parts isnt a huge business right now, I think it will grow into one in the near future for one or two companies. We saw this for most of the late 80s, 90's and early 2000's for Lionel/American Flyer when that collecting and operating craze was in full swing. Worn out trains were coming out of the attic or closet and needed reworked to run again. I think we will see some of that again, but instead of coming out of the closet, it will be just wear and tear of running them. Original CAD drawings or even the original company isnt needed, wasnt need for the Lionel reproduction parts. Just someone able to afford and willing to duplicate common wear parts and sell them at a price that the modeling public can afford. Maybe with a steady full time job, Scott should look into that in a year or two, producing the parts to keep the trains his family produced/imported running for years to come. While it wouldnt be a huge cash cow, might just break even, it would preserve the legacy started by the Polks so many years ago. Mike


Mike, the only fly in that ointment is that even all scales combined, large scale is NOWHERE near as large as the Lionel/AF world. I Just don't know if we have the numbers to support a similar replacement market. If anything like that develops it will probably be a smaller garage business like Barry's Big Trains by a couple guys willing to do it.


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## backyardRR (Aug 14, 2012)

Just got this email.....
*Hi Everyone,
Hope you are doing well. Wanted to give a quick update on production and possible production.

Currently there is track being made. Brass items are in production now as the factory waits for the SS material which will then allow them to make everything else next month. It should be delivered, hopefully, in August. I'll send a list of what is being made following this email.

Trains. You have to remember that we brought in 2 containers of old merchandise that was left at the factory. At this point we are still being held up by items that were ordered by AristoCraft 4 years ago. They are items that we really don't want to start with so we have be trying to resolve how we can get around it. Once this is handled we will start producing trains.

Our business plan still holds strong. It has just taken a little longer then we expected. Believe the rumors if you want but the mess that was left in China is bigger then what has been left to believe. We are set on cleaning it up and moving forward.

Thanks,
Scott*


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for posting that.
John


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