# Bachmann DCC ready



## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

When Bachmann lists DCC ready on their newer Spectrum line, does that mean the pickups are already isolated from the motor so installing RC does not require all this rewiring? Just open the tender and install new board and go? Or am I expecting something to be too easy?


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Some have the 21 pin socket and a switch to choose battery or track power. C-19 for sure.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Pretty much, yes. All the new Bachmann locos from the 3-truck Shay on forward have central control boards that receive electrons from the track or battery, and then allow you to plug in a control decoder of your choice to take those electrons and send them to the motor, lights, etc. (Most come with a "dummy plug" installed which allows for "analog DC" operation.) In all but a small handfull of Bachmann locos, the control board has the "Aristo/Bachmann" 21-pin socket, into which you can plug in a variety of compatible large scale decoders (DCC and other). Smaller locos like the Davenport and new Peter Witt trolley have other standardized connectors which allow the connection of other "standard" decoders. (Note: the "21-pin" connector on the Peter Witt trolley is _not _the same 21-pin connector as the Aristo/Bachmann socket.)

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The original Aristo socket is 12 + 10 pins = 22
the Bachmann socket is 12 + 11 pins = 23 (although originally it was the same as the Aristo and also Stan lobbied for 12 + 12)

so I don't get the 21 pins... do you have a picture that shows 21 pins?

This one shows 12 on the left and 11 on the right, with a "blank" 12th on the right










count carefully, some of the pins are under the J1 J2 designators


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I thought I have heard it refereed to as a 21 pin socket. I have never counted them. Sorry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg, you are correct--22 or 23 pins depending. Don't know why I didn't catch that when I wrote my post. Thanks for clarifying. 

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No problem, really wanted to check if I was missing something.

Have not opened the latest Bachmann creations so was worried the socket had been modified again.

Regards, Greg


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

So much for standards.......


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To be fair, even Aristo has not always implemented their own standard correctly.

They often fail to use the lighting pins.

But, don't get me started on Bachmann's perversions of the pinout.

Greg


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

mickey said:


> When Bachmann lists DCC ready on their newer Spectrum line, does that mean the pickups are already isolated from the motor so installing RC does not require all this rewiring? Just open the tender and install new board and go? Or am I expecting something to be too easy?


Mickey

To get back on track and answer your Question.

Starting with I believe the 2-8-0 Connie (may even be before) Bachmann has listed its Spectrum Locomotives as DCC ready. The motor and track are isolated and in the instruction sheets that come with the locomotive there are instructions on how to install a DCC decoder. Often these instructions involve moving a wire from a screw terminal to the decoder of vice versa. It can take a little time to understand the diagrams in the older locomotives.

Starting with the K27, Spectrum locomotives have come equipped with a 23 pin connector (12 on J1 and 11 on J2) as well as provisions for connecting a RC unit.

This connector was developed at the time by Aristocraft and Bachmann with support by several of the DCC manufacturers. In case of a disagreement Aristocraft having had older existing units in the market cast the final vote.

The 23 pin connector is identical in all of the Bachmann locomotives that have them. Bachmann has also installed two addition blank plugs one on either end of J2 to make it very difficult to plug in a device backward or offset.

The only real difference in the sockets in the Bachmann locomotives is that the K27 has chuff active on a positive voltage while all subsequent locomotives have chuff on ground. The other difference is that the K27 has the RC battery connection before the polarity switch while the subsequent locomotives have these connections after the polarity switch. Both changes were the result of requests from other manufacturers.

Hope that helps

Stan


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Today I opened up my 280 Connie to start the Locolinc and Phoenix installs. Since it said DCC ready, I expected a fairly quick process. That didn't last long. Opening up the front to slide out the factory DCC ready board was fairly easy, but the wires are too short to really get access to the terminals. Adding a couple inches of wire to each would have made things so much easier for their own service guys let alone me and the cost would have been insignificant. But like many things built today, the engineers go to school but don't have any experience in real world service so they don't do justice to their design. The old apprentice world definitely had its advantages. 

And I still have to run extra wires and create connection pigtails whether I install the control board in the engine or tender. Just plain short sighted. I've given up on doing this for my original Climax. Decided to just ebay it and buy one of the newer versions. At least I won't have to separate the track and motor wires. But I expect it to be a pain to get it all in. It arrives next week so time will tell. On the video review I found, it sure looks like a tight fit for sound and RC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Be sure to test the track pickup leads for total isolation from the motor leads, I've found hidden cross connections in these before.

Greg


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

mickey said:


> Today I opened up my 280 Connie to start the Locolinc and Phoenix installs. Since it said DCC ready, I expected a fairly quick process. That didn't last long. Opening up the front to slide out the factory DCC ready board was fairly easy, but the wires are too short to really get access to the terminals. Adding a couple inches of wire to each would have made things so much easier for their own service guys let alone me and the cost would have been insignificant. But like many things built today, the engineers go to school but don't have any experience in real world service so they don't do justice to their design. The old apprentice world definitely had its advantages.
> 
> And I still have to run extra wires and create connection pigtails whether I install the control board in the engine or tender. Just plain short sighted. I've given up on doing this for my original Climax. Decided to just ebay it and buy one of the newer versions. At least I won't have to separate the track and motor wires. But I expect it to be a pain to get it all in. It arrives next week so time will tell. On the video review I found, it sure looks like a tight fit for sound and RC.


Mickey

The outside frame 2-8-0 is a very old design. When I convert the locomotive I put most of the electronics in the tender and a small function decoder in the smokebox. 

Some points. There is a rather large filter on top of the motor. Most remove this filter. This requires removing the boiler which is easy but takes time.

When you turn over the locomotive under the cab there is a small circuit board with the connections to the tender. On this board there is a plug for the track pickups. For battery/RC you unplug this. The tender also has connections to the tender trucks. Those are the only connections to the track. There are no other "hidden" connections.

As delivered from the factory the connections from the tender to the locomotive are 2 for track 2 for the rear headlight and 2 for the chuff contacts.

While I have the boiler off I remove the motor connections from the board in the boiler and move these connections to what used to be the light connections to the tender replacing the rear tender light connections.

In your case you could use what used to be the track connections to power the front circuit board to turn on the headlight smoke and firebox flickr.

Hope that helps

Stan


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Stan, 

Couple questions. First, what exactly is the motor filter you mentioned, it's purpose and why remove? 

Next, why do you not use the engine pickups too. Seems like the standard I've seem to hear is more pickup points, better performance for more consistent electrons flowing. What I found is the 2 conductor board (chuff wires) is really the same as the 4 conductor as the other side just not hooked up, just needs connectors (which I'm chasing down). I plan to use the other 2 as the pair going up to the motor and using a little bigger wire. I did not take the boiler off and found it real easy to pull extra wires thru the boiler to the ash pan pcb area for the motor. I was going to use the rear light pair in the 4 conductor set to become the front light since I'll cut the rear wires to hook directly to the RC control board. I guess I could just use the factory power pair in the 4 conductor to go to the motor and change it at the boiler pcb. That would avoid the chasing a conductor but at the loss of engine pickups. Your thoughts on that? 

As for the chuff pair, I was going to bench test using them for the chuff input to the sound board to see how they work. I seem to get the popular feeling that chuff inputs is not worth it, just use the voltage simulation built into the Phoenix for the chuffs. But I'm stubborn and want to see for myself. If I go that route, I'd get that pair I could use for motor wires.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Stan, I have personally found a connection between a track pickup wire and a motor wire inside the boiler of a Bachmann Consolidation.

You cannot erase my memory, sorry.

(and I have a witness to this unfortunate situation)

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Mickey,
Stan said to disconnect for battery use, because most battery users don't have live track as a backup. You are installing Locolinc, correct? It's been over 20 years since I looked at that system, but I did notice in a recent GR add, that track power is ok with batteries.
I tried using a charge as you go system, but I didn't: run fast enough, often enough and at 24 volts, all necessary to keep my old system in balance. It's gone and my wheels are isolated.
It is very helpful to let those helping you, know the details. LocoLinc isn't typical R/C.

Happy Rails,
John


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

mickey said:


> Stan,
> 
> Couple questions. First, what exactly is the motor filter you mentioned, it's purpose and why remove?
> 
> Next, why do you not use the engine pickups too. Seems like the standard I've seem to hear is more pickup points, better performance for more consistent electrons flowing. What I found is the 2 conductor board (chuff wires) is really the same as the 4 conductor as the other side just not hooked up, just needs connectors (which I'm chasing down). I plan to use the other 2 as the pair going up to the motor and using a little bigger wire. I did not take the boiler off and found it real easy to pull extra wires thru the boiler to the ash pan pcb area for the motor. I was going to use the rear light pair in the 4 conductor set to become the front light since I'll cut the rear wires to hook directly to the RC control board. I guess I could just use the factory power pair in the 4 conductor to go to the motor and change it at the boiler pcb. That would avoid the chasing a conductor but at the loss of engine pickups. Your thoughts on that?


Mickey 

Sorry for the delay in getting back. Had to prepare for an operating session today.

The filter is the circuit board that is attached to the top of the motor. Its purpose is RFI suppression. Many remove this board as some electronics has problems when this board is in place.

Sorry for the confusion. I use track power (with battery backup) so I leave the track connections in place. Over time I have replaced the OEM springs with stronger stainless steel springs to improve the track pickup.

Most battery users leave the pickups in place and simply unplug the pickup board.

Since I am using DCC I place a 2nd function decoder in the boiler to control the extra functions which removes the need of extra connections to the boards in the tender.

Stan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Update on DCC ready, specifically on the Peter Witt streetcar. The 21 pin interface is an NMRA standard called MTC21 (lifted from a MOROP standard).

It is normally used in HO, and the Peter Witt streetcar has a switch that allows the isolation of the track pickups from the motor.

Unfortunately not all is rosy here, as there seem to be various "interpretations" of the standard, i.e. it's not plug and play with any MTC21 decoder, and mysteriously, Bachmann seems to have recalled a number of the streetcars for "circuit board issues", but this is second hand information to me.

In any case, I'm investigating and putting my results on my web site:

http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/bachmann-motive-power/peter-witt-trolley


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