# Southern Pacific 2711 loco?



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Hi,

Does anyone have more information on this Southern Pacific 2711 loco?
http://www.billburmaster.com/lfta01/images/sp2711blueislandil0415.jpg

The road number doesn't seem to fit into the standard SP scheme and if I just look up Southern Pacific 2711 I typically get a smaller switching diesel.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/pictures\74444\SP 2711 DAL 032896 B.jpg

What gives?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Its not a Southern Pacific locomotive and number, its a Union Pacific locomotive and number!  its an ex-SP locomotive, re-numbured when it was absorbed into UP. 
Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

actually, this photo:

http://www.billburmaster.com/lfta01/images/sp2711blueislandil0415.jpg

Isnt a photo of a UP locomotive afterall, its an ex-UP locomotive now owned by NREX, a leasing company, but still wearing its ex-SP paint, and its ex-UP number! 

1. Built new in 1966, as UP 3008, an EMD SD40 (not a dash-2) 

2. rebuilt at some point (probably by UP) into a SD40M-2, but keeping the original SD40 carbody.

3. To SP SD40M-2 8635.

4. *back* to UP when SP was absorbed into UP, to become UP 2711.

5. Sold by UP to NREX, who is the units current owner. currently NREX 2711.

data source: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/LocoPicture.aspx?id=204331

She is 50 years old this year!  although recent photos show she is currently in storage..hopefully she will run again.

Scot


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks Scot,

That really shed some light on this particular loco and it's history.

Now a specific question for you or anyone who wants to chime in.

Do you think that loco ever actually ran with the SP logo and the UP road number the way it is shown here:










Maybe just after SP was taken over by UP where they assigned a UP road number but never repainted the loco in UP livery???

I couldn't find a decent prototype picture like that proposed model above.

Thanks,
knut


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

No, that model is 100% fiction..

LGB has two variants of that model..one is a fairly accurate representation on a real White Pass Alco..
The second version, above, is an odd fictional mutant..for some unknown reason LGB added an EMD SD40-ish long hood, but kept the Alco trucks, cab and nose..resulting in a 100% fictional model not even close to anything that ever really existed..

SP did have some Alcos that vaguely resemble the LGB model, minus the EMD hood..I'll post some pics..

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Both SP and Santa Fe rostered the Alco RSD15 "Alligator", a particularly long and lean 6-axle Alco RS:










But probably the closest SP loco to that LGB model would be the Alco RSD12, not as long in the body or the snout:










The LGB model *very roughly* resembles the RSD12, but only at a glance..its really a model of a 3-foot gauge MLW, so it's actually not terribly close.

the LGB model wouldnt be bad, if not for the odd EMD hood..
Their version without the EMD hood:










Is actually a decent model of real White Pass 3-foot gauge Alcos, built by Alco's Canadian subsidiary MLW:











Why LGB also created the fictional version with the EMD hood, I cant imagine..

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

krs said:


> Do you think that loco ever actually ran with the SP logo and the UP road number the ay it is shown here:
> 
> Maybe just after SP was taken over by UP where they assigned a UP road number but never repainted the loco in UP livery???
> 
> knut


If you mean the real SD40M-2 locomotive, you have already seen the locomotive in that paint scheme!  its the first photo you posted:

http://www.billburmaster.com/lfta01/images/sp2711blueislandil0415.jpg

and yes, it did operate that way with UP..UP added the yellow patch with the red road number..although the old SP paint probably never looked much cleaner than it does in that photo, when it ran with UP..

Here she is with SP in 1996 (only months before the end of the SP) in fairly fresh SP paint:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1862585

and in 2004, now operating with UP:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=88517

(SP was absorbed into UP in September 1996)

and no, the locomotive never received a second UP paint scheme..
(she did wear UP paint when new..)
last photos on-line show the unit in storage, in 2012, still wearing the battered SP paint with the UP patch.
most likely still stored that way today..

Scot


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Scottychaos said:


> No, that model is 100% fiction..
> 
> LGB has two variants of that model..one is a fairly accurate representation on a real White Pass Alco..
> The second version, above, is an odd fictional mutant..for some unknown reason LGB added an EMD SD40-ish long hood, but kept the Alco trucks, cab and nose..resulting in a 100% fictional model not even close to anything that ever really existed..


Scot,

The way I understand it, the original LGB 2055 diesel was a 'so-so' typical LGB model of the narrow gauge WP&Y DL535E.
Then LGB came out with the same loco with a D&RGW paint scheme (LGB 2056) and later with different road numbers of the WP&Y and also with a Santa Fe paint scheme (LGB 2156S, 22560, 22562), a CP Rail paint scheme (LGB 23552) - I'll skip the Coke and Xmas versions.
I doubt that Santa Fe or CP ever ran DL535E diesels, but at least the loco is still described as that.

Then, with LGB under Marklin, someone must have come up with the idea - hey, we already have tooling for a 6-axle diesel, why don't we make some superficial changes and call it a standard gauge EMD SD40 diesel. That way there are dozens of railroads that ran those and lots of different paint schemes we can peddle.

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Scottychaos said:


> If you mean the real SD40M-2 locomotive, you have already seen the locomotive in that paint scheme!  its the first photo you posted:
> 
> http://www.billburmaster.com/lfta01/images/sp2711blueislandil0415.jpg


Looked to me as if the loco in that picture was headed for the junk yard so I wasn't sure if it was ever in service like that.

But one of your photos shows it in service - thank-you

Knut


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Still a couple dash 9's with that UP boaard running coal trains by here every day.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Scot, do you have any non-3/4 view pictures of the original loco?

I model Santa Fe and have always wanted to see if I could make that LGB loco match some prototype Santa Fe ran. (I know they had poor pulling power).

Thanks, Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, here is a good one:

https://www.haertle.de/out/pictures...ellok-digital-sound-spur-g-neuheit2011_p1.jpg

Is that what you are looking for?
Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I actually meant of the real prototype that Santa Fe had.

That LGB looks strangely foreshortened. Is that the same as the one they sold at the old Queen Mary show?



Want to see if the old LGB alligator alco could be modified to look like the real thing Santa Fe had.










Thanks, Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I actually meant of the real prototype that Santa Fe had.
> 
> That LGB looks strangely foreshortened. Is that the same as the one they sold at the old Queen Mary show?
> 
> ...


There is no real prototype to the LGB model..Santa Fe or otherwise...see replies #5 and 6.
Santa Fe had nothing even close to the LGB model..the model is 100% fiction. (Alco trucks, cab and nose, with an EMD hood..nothing like that ever existed.) 

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

The real ATSF 2156 looked like this:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=725768

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2922074

(those are sister units 2155 and 2158, closest numbers I could find..2156 would have been identical.)
a chop-nose rebuilt GP7..not even remotely close to the LGB model..

Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I WAS referring to post #6, the RSD-15 .... 

That prototype was what I wanted to compare to the LGB... at least it has 3 axle trucks and a long snout, that's a start!

I suspect the length is off, clearly the cab is different.. going to the effort to find a picture, I see the body and snout are too short, grills and fans different, etc... oh well.


















Greg


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