# Looking at Buying an Aster K4 4-6-2



## propbreaker (Apr 25, 2010)

Hello everyone I have an oppertunity to buy an Aster K4 4-6-2 engine that appears to be in excellent condition. it has its original wooden carry box and a run up tread mill. I am asking the forum before I go any farther if there is anything to check and make sure before purchasing. Also if the price is resonable if it has no issue with it at $3500. I need the experience of the member of the forum to either proceed or run the other way.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By propbreaker on 08 Dec 2010 03:13 PM 
Hello everyone I have an oppertunity to buy an Aster K4 4-6-2 engine that appears to be in excellent condition. it has its original wooden carry box and a run up tread mill. I am asking the forum before I go any farther if there is anything to check and make sure before purchasing. Also if the price is resonable if it has no issue with it at $3500. I need the experience of the member of the forum to either proceed or run the other way. Depends if you are able to inspect and test first hand lot of things to look for if one is to concur that it is "excellent" condtion. Recently one of the MLS live steam community purchased on that seemed to the outstanding fo r the price but the build was bad, parts missing, etc. Just some quick things to denote...

Price- good
Condition "excellent" as per post
Operational- has it been fired and/or can it be fired prior to purchase, gas jet flow, throttle rotates easily, light oil on moving parts (could indicate has been run) check smokebox installation for over firing

Inspection- water lines, gas lines, all wheels/rods rotate without bind, hand pump works and handle, axle pump/ by-pass functions, oil lubricator, sight glass clear, pressure gauge functional. safeties, check smokbox for alignment of exhaust

Boiler- need to know the production number at one time Aster offered boiler replacements: could do a quick hydro test or air test to see if it holds pressure

Detail parts- classification/marker lights on the corners, railing, couplers, water hatch, roof, condition of the paint, etc

Test run on the tread mill

Any photos?


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## propbreaker (Apr 25, 2010)

Here are the photos. the seller said he would fire it up and run it on the tread mill. Since I have not run a live steam in this scale he was willing to get me comfortable with running it.


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

[No message]


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

Not sure why last post came through blank sorry guys. Just gonna say check pictures carefully.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

The box shown does not appear to be an "original" Aster box.


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

If I'm not mistaken, it looks like a Bob Weltyk box to me. Here is a box he made for my Mike.


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## propbreaker (Apr 25, 2010)

the carry box could well be made by who you guys said. I just posted the pics emailed to me tonight. I am in Michigan also and so is this engine. So Chooch you could know the owner I do not want to post his name I did not ask him about that I am trying to get an idea of is this a good price if the engine is in excellent working condition as described by the seller and what to inspect on it. Also is this a good first engine. I am experience with ride on style Live steam did it when I was a teenager with Indiana Live steamers in Brown County . But those of course use coal. I have not done the Butane style yet. I have a stationary steam engine power plant that uses sturno it is very old pre the plug ins. I have an idea of what to check just want to make sure there is nothing exclusive to this type of engine. as described. he is supposed to have the original box also but did not send me pics of it he also sent me photos of the custom passenger coaches but at $600 dollar a piece price times 6 I can not afford the whole train even though I would love to But I would almost have to take a mortgage on my house. My wife already going crazy we have spent close to what house cost to build our layout and add building and rolling stock and engines. So if I am going to lay down the money on another big purchase right now I need to know I am not wasting the money. Also is there any type of parts availible if it breaks or am I building and engineering my own parts? I am grateful for everyone input


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Loco looks in pretty good condition. Price is pretty much on target. They do have a horrible sightglass though and always need to have water high on the glass. The case is pretty sweet. Any of the MI guys on here would be able to help you out. 

Most important parts are available from Hans at Aster USA. 

Id say buy it!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 08 Dec 2010 03:59 PM 
Posted By propbreaker on 08 Dec 2010 03:13 PM 
Hello everyone I have an oppertunity to buy an Aster K4 4-6-2 engine that appears to be in excellent condition. it has its original wooden carry box and a run up tread mill. I am asking the forum before I go any farther if there is anything to check and make sure before purchasing. Also if the price is resonable if it has no issue with it at $3500. I need the experience of the member of the forum to either proceed or run the other way. Depends if you are able to inspect and test first hand lot of things to look for if one is to concur that it is "excellent" condtion. Recently one of the MLS live steam community purchased on that seemed to the outstanding fo r the price but the build was bad, parts missing, etc. Just some quick things to denote...

Price- good
Condition "excellent" as per post
Operational- has it been fired and/or can it be fired prior to purchase, gas jet flow, throttle rotates easily, light oil on moving parts (could indicate has been run) check smokebox installation for over firing

Inspection- water lines, gas lines, all wheels/rods rotate without bind, hand pump works and handle, axle pump/ by-pass functions, oil lubricator, sight glass clear, pressure gauge functional. safeties, check smokbox for alignment of exhaust

Boiler- need to know the production number at one time Aster offered boiler replacements: could do a quick hydro test or air test to see if it holds pressure

Detail parts- classification/marker lights on the corners, railing, couplers, water hatch, roof, condition of the paint, etc

Test run on the tread mill

Any photos? 





A buddy if mine had to replace the boiler on his K4. Something to check into.


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

Propbreaker, 
The only thing I can tell you about the K-4 is to echo what Jason stated above. The sight glass is too low, but that is because the uppermost flue tube is very high in the boiler. Then there was an issue of the silver solder not flowing properly when heated in the batch furnace. This makes it very important to run the engine with a mostly full boiler, and full sight glass. It is not a 'no brainer' engine to run, but if you keep an eye on the water level, you'll be fine. The K-4 is an excellent runner. 
If you would like to email me, maybe I can help you with any questions you may have. Just send me a message thru MLS, or send note to fred at gandolfi dot info (change "at" and "dot")


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Down the tracks....let us know if you ever get to the point of making a "dream" come true- coal fired....we can do a conversion!


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

All of the comments that you have received about your possible purchase are valid and should be factored into your decision to buy or not. Here are mine: 
[1] It is a darling piece, jewelry almost, but it is finished in the wrong color. K-4s' always sported a Brunswick Green topcoat, and contrary to Accucraft's in-the-pipeline-as-we-speak 1:29 Pennsey K-4s, there was never a Tuscan Red version either. The Aster Saturday-mid-day-chow-pea-soup-green color, as built, is not correct. Bob Moser [NJ] had a professional artist doctor up his model to darken and weather it to a pretty good representation. Jerry Hyde air erased the color from two Aster kits in order to provide a base for the proper Brunswick Green coating. 
[2] The Aster K-4s is not a beginner small scale live steam locomotive. If you want to learn about live steam operation without needless pressure to perform, please consider a Roundhouse Billy, Katy, Sammy, or any of the various flavors of Accucraft Rubys that are readily available. All of these locos are easy to run, forgiving in nature, kit bashable, and affordable. 
[3] One of the down sides of the Aster K-4s is the fuel supply system. Aster could never wrap their design heads around the butane firing thingie, and so produced a lot of so-so gas fired locomotives; looked good, ran poorly. The K-4s and the C&S Mogul head up this list, with the Mogul slightly edging out the K-4s in the top looser category. Aster really screwed up with the design of the K-4s fuel tank. The filler valve [actually a purpose built 5mm part vs the Ronson's 4.5mm version] is located in the top of the tank's major diameter just where one would expect it, but the tank's flow control valve feeds out of a side mounted spigot. This means that in lighting off the burner is trying to aspirate, air mix, and entrain a flow of liquid butane fuel; not a good situation. The saving grace of the deal is that there is a a goodly amount of scale sized plumbing between the tank's fuel control valve and the burner body [there's also a second fuel control valve in the supply line at the burner body proper]. Well the mass of all this plumbing imparts enough energy [heat] to the liquid fuel flow to allow [most of the time] to allow the liquid butane to "flash" [phase change] over into butane vapor, and if you have a deft hand on the primary tank mounted fuel flow control valve the burner will light off and you will have a chance at a run. By the way, John Wieland [sic], the Aster importer after Garry White, and before Jerry Hyde, and now Hans, used to recommend that K-4s operators learn to only fill their fuel tanks half way at the git-go to avoid all the startup problems. In a way I agree with him, because once the liquid fuel level drops below the fuel control's mid position in the side of the tank, the burner now operates on gaseous flow, and warm water returned to the tender from the axle pump bypass valve keeps fuel tank bunker water temperatures high enough to supply energy to the ever-trying-to-cool fuel tank. 
[4] Aster K-4s' were manufactured in 1984 [NYC Hudsons around the same time too]. Aster's offiical policy was/is to stand behind their products integrity for ten years; or until the spare parts ran out. Now, 28 years later, the detail parts bins are going to be a bit dusty [I have had to make detail parts for Aster products as young as 15 years]. 
[5] Aster K-4s boilers are defective in design ....... period. Eventually they will all develop leaks in the upper portion of the front tube sheet of the combustion chamber. These tube sheet leaks can't be re-brazed without machining away the very front [smoke box] boiler tube sheet [yes, there are three tube sheets in the boiler]. As recently as 1997 there were three or four replacement K-4s boilers in the dealer system; now ...... I don't know. In any event the Aster supplied K-4s supplied replacements are identical to the production boilers. No, there was no redesign attempted to correct the original deficient mechanical design, and so by replacing with a new Aster supplied boiler only buys time, but provides no fix. I have purposely avoided writing about the bad boiler design issue {there is some allusion to it/them in previous posts on this thread] because it would take way too much space to lay it out, and what the corrective measures are. 
[6] Accucraft [Bing] tells me that their new 1:29 Pennsey K-4s is in the pipeline for delivery this coming spring [I figure Summer Steamup]. He kinda waffled on the "true color" issue, but at least he assured me that the production color would be a "dark green" [Tuscan too ...... never prototypical]. Since it's a "Divine" sponsored loco, and its full retail is about 2.3K US bucks, me thinks that it is Ruby piston valved technology with dummy Walcharts valve gear just for show. Never mind though, as I have one each Accucraft 0-6-0 yard goats in scale 1:32 with accurate valve gear, and not-so-scale 1:29 with piston valve reversing [the combination link is in error], and I love them both. Actually, the 1:29 goat looks better than the 1:32 offering when in steam and running 35 feet away. I don't really know if size matters, but is sure shows up better at a distance and underweigh.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

As per Kevin in discussion of color I believe that the fine arts model M1a and GG1 better represent the PRR Brunswick Green:















GG1 has a gloss finish but is black in nature when not in sun or bright light


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By propbreaker on 08 Dec 2010 05:37 PM 
So if I am going to lay down the money on another big purchase right now I need to know I am not wasting the money. 
Dear Prop,
I would ask yourself a few questions before buying.
1) Is this loco the one that I have always wanted and is it 'special' to me?
2) Am I buying it just because it has been offered at a reasonable price? 
3) Are there other Aster locos that I would rather have, or indeed other manufacturers?
4) Knowing that there are a few 'issues' with this loco, will I be happy using it? (I would recommend having the water gauge glass lengthened as I did on my NYC Hudson boiler as it gives some safety room)
5) Is my wife going to be happy with me buying this loco?
If any of these cause you to question buying this K4, then perhaps find something else that will suit your needs better. 
As far as wasting money, that is of course a question that one should not ask in ones hobby.
If it makes us happy, then it can't be a waste.
If it brings us stress and pain, then yes maybe, but you can always sell it!
Good luck with making the decision. 
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## gearedsoft (Jun 20, 2009)

Posted By Two Blocked on 09 Dec 2010 09:31 AM 
A[3] One of the down sides of the Aster K-4s is the fuel supply system. Aster could never wrap their design heads around the butane firing thingie, and so produced a lot of so-so gas fired locomotives; looked good, ran poorly. 
This is not my experience with Aster Butane fired loco's. I have a WM6 Shay and a friend of mine has an S2/6. We both have no problems with the gas firing. The shay is one of the simplest running machines I have. Just add water, gas an oil and it will run for over half an hour. I don't know about the other gas fired loco's, but those two are running well.This is not my experience with Aster Butane fired loco's. I have a WM6 Shay and a friend of mine has an S2/6. We both have no problems with the gas firing. The shay is one of the simplest running machines I have. Just add water, gas an oil and it will run for over half an hour. I don't know about the other gas fired loco's, but those two are running well.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By gearedsoft on 09 Dec 2010 12:24 PM 
Posted By Two Blocked on 09 Dec 2010 09:31 AM 
A[3] One of the down sides of the Aster K-4s is the fuel supply system. Aster could never wrap their design heads around the butane firing thingie, and so produced a lot of so-so gas fired locomotives; looked good, ran poorly. 
This is not my experience with Aster Butane fired loco's. I have a WM6 Shay and a friend of mine has an S2/6. We both have no problems with the gas firing. The shay is one of the simplest running machines I have. Just add water, gas an oil and it will run for over half an hour. I don't know about the other gas fired loco's, but those two are running well.This is not my experience with Aster Butane fired loco's. I have a WM6 Shay and a friend of mine has an S2/6. We both have no problems with the gas firing. The shay is one of the simplest running machines I have. Just add water, gas an oil and it will run for over half an hour. I don't know about the other gas fired loco's, but those two are running well. 
Different design and setup for fuel delivery from the tank to the burner on the K4 vs. the WM Shay. Having owned several gas fired K4's we have been successful running them both modified and OEM. Running stock can be frustrating but once you discover a few techniques it no longer results in the "BBQ" side effect( disclaimer- the photo below does not represent the normal functional aspects of firing an Aster or that of the K4 for sale!):


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Will, the owner of the K4, just emailed me..this should clear the speculation about the condition, running abilities and worthiness of purchase:

Ryan/Charles, the K4s that you commented on in MLS is mine, and I'm sure you both have seen it run at the PLS Labor Day meet. Ryan, I know you have seen it as you are in the video I have posted on Youtube.

The fuel tank pickup was redone by Norm Saley and I was told by Alex Azaray that he also did the burner to make it a radiant burner.

There have been no problems regarding the boiler.

When I bought it, the only problem was that the valves were never lapped in when it was first built. On the steamchest side, gouges were so deep that I had to use emery cloth on both sides to remove the gouges. From then on, it was valve lapping compound and then polishing compound. You've seen the results.

Anyway, you can now discuss it without speculation.


Thereby, knowing this engine and the owner I would recommend purchase: in particular over the Accucraft version.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here it is at the Labor Day Meet in 2009, pulling five heavyweights...


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## propbreaker (Apr 25, 2010)

Thank to all of Wills friends for helping get the video and confirm the condition. It sounds like I am looking at buying an excellent piece. I talk to Will again and we are going to run it on the tread mill to demonstrate it for my wife to make hercomfortable with the condition. It looking like I am going to be adding a new piece to collection after seeing it run and getting her blessing. To all who do not know Will or this engine from what Will told this evening that this engine has had modification done to the fuel cell to make it more efficient as stated above it had the boiler maintained . I cannot wait to see it run.

Thanks again to everyone


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## Ding Dong (Sep 27, 2010)

"we are going to run it on the tread mill to demonstrate it for my wife to make hercomfortable with the condition"

Oh Dear...... That could be a big mistake. She may want to keep it for herself!


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Charles 

You could have left me in the BBQ picture... it is one of my favorites from my earlier days of learning to run live steam. Brings back all the memories of the old IE&W Ry covered with bluestone ballast designed to get in the running gear and scrape the paint any time you dumped a locomotive. That particular Aster K4 is now in the hands of John S. in Virginia Beach and after extensive rework is an excellent performer. I kind of wish I had kept it, but John was a master at convincing me to part with it. 

Regards


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr. Rivet
I was just thinking, what if the photo reminded you of "ol' Jim" ...but given your fondness to the that particular moment in time:


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I kind of remember the original caption. 

It went something like, "Jim, lighting his Barbecue Grill, cleverly disguised as an Aster K-4".


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

What is the story behind that picture? Was there a butane leak or is that just a gag? Was there any damage to the loco other than soot from the burst of flames?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

The picture dates from summer 1996 when there was only a single loop of track on the IE&W Ry. I was having a hard time getting the burner to stay lit on the K4. Clearly too much gas had accumulated in the smoke box before I tried to light the engine, and a ball of fire resulted. Carol Jobusch was there at the precise instant to memorialize the moment, before I could even reach over and try to adjust the gas. There was no damage to the engine, there was no leak, and it was NOT a gag. Just an image of an inexperienced guy learning to fire a sometimes temperamental loco. Sorry there is not a more exciting explanation.

I now have a mix of both gas and alcohol fired locos; at least the gas fired ones don't burn up my plastic ties. 

Merry Christmas


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I am glad there was no damage to the loco or yourself. Thanks for the explanation. I have the legendary AML K4 Live steam on pre-order through Mark's store. I hope I don't get any similar experiences. Merry Christmas.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 23 Dec 2010 07:51 PM 
The picture dates from summer 1996 when there was only a single loop of track on the IE&W Ry. I was having a hard time getting the burner to stay lit on the K4. Clearly too much gas had accumulated in the smoke box before I tried to light the engine, and a ball of fire resulted. Carol Jobusch was there at the precise instant to memorialize the moment, before I could even reach over and try to adjust the gas. There was no damage to the engine, there was no leak, and it was NOT a gag. Just an image of an inexperienced guy learning to fire a sometimes temperamental loco. Sorry there is not a more exciting explanation.

I now have a mix of both gas and alcohol fired locos; at least the gas fired ones don't burn up my plastic ties. 

Merry Christmas 


I have seen this happen a few times to other locos, and any photos taken at just the right time ALWAYS make it look worse than it really was. Granted, there is some danger to the eyes with this type of accident... but the worst I have ever seen is some slightly singed eyebrows.... funny how fast some people can move when that puff of flame is coming right at their face!


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Propbreaker, did you ever end up getting the Aster K4? If so, be sure to post some pics and perhaps your initial run with her.


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