# Best first diesel



## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

I'm ready to add a diesel to my layout. I am still rather new to G scale and i am still in the learning stage. It seems like each different diesel has it's problems. So the question is what would be the best diesel, with B trucks for a beginner. My layout is about 200' and has a 1.87% grade. I plan on pulling no more than 7 freight cars.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

pardon my ignorance, what are B trucks? 

You can make any of the diesels work fine... they all have their strengths and weaknesses. 

Pick what you want, but you need to give the minimum diameter of your curves... in case you are trying to put an SD70 around a 4' curve. 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, I think that in the European system, a b truck has two axles, a "C" has three. I'm sure Knut will comment if I am wrong.

Chuck


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## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

B trucks are two axle and C trucks are three axle. dia is 8'.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

It might have started as an European system, but its also been in use regular use in America since the dawn of the diesel era.. 
Alco was using it in the 1950's, and GE has been using it the most: 

GE U23B, U33C, C30-7, C32-8, B32-8, C44-9, and lots of other models.. 
wherever you see a "B" in a GE diesel model name, it means 2 axle trucks (4 wheels), and a "C" means 3 axle trucks, 6 wheels. 

Technically the original poster meant a "BB" diesel, meaning two trucks, not a "B diesel", which would mean only one 4-wheel truck on the whole locomotive. 
but "B diesel" or "C diesel" is pretty standard (if slightly incorrect) terminology to refer to a BB, like a GP38-2 or a U25B, or CC to mean a SD40-2 or C44-9. 

EMD never used it much..instead calling their "BB" models "GP" models, for General Purpose, 
and their CC models "SD" models, for Special Duty..but EMD did use the system in the case of their locos with 4-axle trucks! (8 wheels per truck)
such as the DD35 and the Union Pacific DDA40X "Centennial" units, in which case the DD does stand for two 4-axle, 8-wheel trucks. 

Scot


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

By far I love my RS-3.

It's a great runner.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

What would a "Big Boy" be in the European system?

Chuck


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 30 Sep 2012 06:41 PM 
What would a "Big Boy" be in the European system? Chuck 
The diesel system we are discussing doesn't apply to steam locomotives..
steam engines use the "Whyte notation" system..a Big Boy is a 4-8-8-4..the AAR Diesel system doesn't apply.

AAR system for Diesels 

Whyte notation, for steam locomotives. 

Scot


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot, electric locomotives in Europe also come under the B C classification, hense my question. 

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Chuck, 

Big Boy or GG1? 

John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John, some electric locomotives have non powered leading and trailing trucks. The GG-1 and the Swiss SG Croc have non powered trucks. I had hoped that my question would provide an answer as to how locos would th labeled. Is the croc an a-C-C-a? Our system would have it as a 2-6-6-2. I have know idea as to the correct answer, I'm just curious. Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

If a BB was electric what would be the European numbering system's nomenclature? 

Did that simplify it? 

I think you get numbers and letters


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

duplicate


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB 3 axle trucks on electric and diesels only have 2 powered axles. 
Aristocraft 3 axle diesels have 2 motors each and all axles are powered, 4 motors per diesel. 
USA has 1 motor per axle and all 3 axles are powered. 
Piko I do not know, no experience with them yet. 

Lgb draws least amps, USA the most amps. Only matters for power pack and decoder decisions (and at least short 14 gage or long 12 gage wire runs maybe even 10 gage wire!!!). 

And what are you modeling? American, or a European country? Some other area? What scale will you model as USA and Aristo are 1/29. 

PS, USA and Aristo B units are powered, LGB B unit is not powered. 

USA Trains is American only, Aristo does have a class 66, and LGB has American and European as does Piko.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Chuck 

In the most commonly used European notation The Big Boy which is a 4-8-8-4 [or 4-8+8-4 where the + represents the articulation point] it is a 2-D+D-2 
digits represent NON powered axles, CAP LETTERS represent POWERED axles. 

The Swiss Kroc as a 2-6+6-2 is a 1-C+C-1 

The PRR GG1 is a 2-C+C-2, or 4-6-0+0-6-4, but the designation derives from the fact that the PRR classification for 4-6-0 steam locomotive is G, hence two Gs back-to-back. 

In regard to diesels, most power is B+B or C+C, the UP Centennials [6900s] were D+D, hence the EMD nomenclature DD-40AX 
The trucks on early SD and E units and PAs were A1A, powered axle/idler axle/powered axle, so the units were A1A+A1A, modern SDs have C trucks [3 powered axles] 




Other examples from the PRR 

Standard classes 

C - 0-8-0 
D - 4-4-0 American 
E - 4-4-2 Altlantic 
F - 2-6-0 Mogul 
H - 2-8-0 Consolidation 

Articulated steam: 

CC1s - 0-8-8-0 Mallet locomotive. Treated as two 0-8-0s for classification. One built. 
CC2s - 0-8-8-0 Mallet locomotive. 10 built. 
HC1s - 2-8-8-0 simple articulated locomotive. The PRR's only main-line articulated. One built. 
HH1s - 2-8-8-2 Mallet locomotive. Treated for classification purposes as two 2-8-0s back to back. 
HH1 - 2-8-8-2 Norfolk & Western class Y3 borrowed by PRR during World War II. 

Articulated electric: 

AA1 - experimental 0-4-4-0 or B-B electric locomotives. 
BB1 - two-unit prototype AC electric 0-6-0+0-6-0 switching locomotive, later split into single units as class B1. 
BB2 - two-unit 0-6-0+0-6-0 DC electric switching locomotives, later split into single units as class B1. 
BB3 - two-unit 0-6-0+0-6-0 DC electric switching locomotives for LIRR, later split into single units as class B3. 
DD1 - two-unit DC electric locomotive, two 4-4-0 half-locomotives semi-permanently coupled back to back. Served between Manhattan Transfer and Penn Station, and to Sunnyside Yard. 
DD2 - experimental mixed-traffic AC electric locomotive. 
FF1 - 2-6-6-2 (1-C+C-1) experimental electric locomotive, 1917. Too powerful. 
FF2 - 2-6-6-2 motor-generator AC electric locomotives acquired second-hand from the Great Northern Railway (their classes Y1 and Y1a) in 1956. 
GG1 - express passenger and freight electric locomotive


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Jim.

Chuck


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## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

I am looking for an engine from USA or ARISTO in the PENNSY road name.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, you can still pretty much pick what you want... 

Older or newer era? 

Big or small? 

Freight or Passenger or switcher? 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles Ro has a GP 38-2 in PRR livery.

Chuck


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By dpotp on 01 Oct 2012 07:32 AM 
I am looking for an engine from USA or ARISTO in the PENNSY road name. 


One good thing about modeling a "popular" railroad like the PRR, nearly everything is available in the PRR scheme!
USA Trains and Aristo offer nearly every diesel model they make in the PRR scheme..just check out their webpages..

Scot


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I would go with one of the USA GP's. Good reliable runners and parts availability if needed.


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I normally recommend the USA engines, but as a first diesel, I'd go for the FA-1 by Aristo. I bought one in 1989 or 1990....still runs great! They are strong runners, work smoothly on most track, and most importantly the details are robust. You'll find that the USA engines run a little better, but you'll be finding moreloose/missing parts.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

This thought begs a ? then. 

Which is more important? A good running, long lasting, reliable platform that does not need chassis attention to maintain.. OR gluing external parts back once in awhile..? 

Dirk :~}


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

USA Trains F-3 would be my choice, They run awesome and you can get replacement parts easy unlike Aristocraft.

Jethro


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

If you are a beginner and you want a diesel to put on the track and run well without fussing, or continually needing repairs when subject to less than stellar conditions, get an LGB.

USAs are nice and are typically good runners, but be prepared to fix cracked gears, fiddly bits that break off, poor inventory when you need a part, and a high current draw. 

AristoCrafts are almost as nice but suffer from poor wheel plating leading to less than stellar pick-up and sideframes and springs that pop out in the event of a collision/derailment.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

This is going to turn into a Ford Chevy thing. There will be no winner.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hyundai


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul: in my opinion it is not just a Chevy/ Ford thing, you should add Caddie to the list. LGB diesels were also mentioned earlier in the thread. I have eight American style and one European style LGB diesel. Some are over 20 years old. Never a problem. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for my USAt diesels. 6 of the7 have cracked idler gears. The seventh is a little over a year old. This summer I stopped in at Charlie Ro's and asked if they had changed the material in their gears, the answer was no. Even with that I love and run them. They are very nice and wobble a little going down the track. Sometime I'm going to order some replacement gears from NWSL.  Finding an LGB PRR diesel might be difficult. The USAt engines are closer to scale. The LGB diesels look very nice, but are not scale accurate. Chuck


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

I have to agree with Chuck. 

I have three LGB alco diesels. Two white pass editions 2055 and one Rio Grande 2056. They are pretty much indestructable. I think the white pass editions are a pretty close match to the real thing but im sure not to "scale". 
I also have five aristocraft diesels with years of use ... dont get me wrong. .. They seen there better days. They dont run smoothly anymore. Wheel plating is gone. Brass bushing are worn out. Gears are cracked. However they still are a great first diesel. 

The LGB locos have the same amount of use and though the wheels are worn down to brass, they run perfect. No cracked gears. LGB parts are pretty easy to come by these days too. I think people bought them up in a panic and you are starting to see these people sell there parts off due to the fact parts are becoming availible again from suppliers like train-li. According to Marklin you will see service station pop up around January. 

There seems to be a big stink about LGB. Not true to scale. Over priced. And people like to poke fun at their few mistakes like the mikado, and the 2-10-2 Harz loco when they are fixing and tweeking all their engines. Dont get me wrong thats my favorite part of the hobby is fixing and tweeking. 

However you can find them used at great prices now a days. Even with wear they will run great. 

NO experience with USA trains but i hope to buy one or two down the road. They seem robust. The Roundhouse RnR


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Roundhouse: find a used clean Alco and you will have great runner with durability. The LGB Cat diesels are my next choice.

The Aristo FA, U25, and RS3 are solid and can be picked up for less than the LGB units.

Good Luck


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Lots of good suggestions, IMO all of these trains/engines/loco's have their idiosyncrasies… None of the OEM offerings lack problems, pick your poison and enjoy. If and when you have problems deal with it and get back to playing trains.

Most of what has been mentioned previously with regard to specific engine and or drive problems are common issues, well known and repairable. 

I don’t think it’s fair to suggest that LGB products are as superior as some suggest, they suffer from the same failure modes as the others, diesel or steam. I own and have seen countless wore out Moguls, 2-4-0’s and Alco’s. All the same issues wheel plating, motor failures, stripped gears, worn axles, motor blocks with elongated axle supports which leads to gear failures and more. Biggest problem is parts availability and the cost of same. When I rebuilt my two Alco’s last year I had to replace motors, motor blocks, drivers, axles, gears and all, essentially the motor blocks were completely wore out. And yes they had seen seven years of regular use pulling eight or so cars on level track generally paired up. Point is they required repairs same as the rest and they cost twice as much or more to repair than other OEM product offerrings.

I’m not trying to belittle LGB products; they are well engineered, hold up as well as others if not a little better and work great in most circumstances. I think it’s grand that we have so many options out there, the more the merrier IMO.

Michael


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

For the record . Any engine will where out with enough use. I just meant my engines with the same amount of wear as my aristocrafts are in alot better shape then the LGB. I myself have had to rebuild one of my moguls. It ran every weekend for 10 to 12 years+. It was still running but suffered from worn out axel journals as michael stated and caused premature gear failure. 

Also a little tip. From factory LGB has grease on the axle where they ride in the motor block. GET RID OF IT. Clean with a Q-tip with Alcholol on it. Then put a SMALL drop of oil if needed. i use Labelle. Grease collects dirt and groves the axels and the plastic really bad. Every notice when a motor block is worn out its not ususally both sides or front and back. Its usually because of dirt building up in pacific areas. 

Its funny , i have seen the metal axels groove and wear out before the plastic does. Thats tough stuff . I believe its firber glass injected LURAN-S. 

The Roundhouse RnR


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

i meant to say my aristo's show alot more age then the LGB lol sorry.


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## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

Hey guys, I really value the input from everyone. It's nice to be able to get so much feed back from those of you that have been doing this for a while and it is a big help. I have been a N scaler for the past 25 years and getting in to G scale has been quite an education. I forgot to add that I will be converting to battery power and Aristo TE.


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## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

Just got back from the train show in Deland Fl. and found a Pennsy RS3, used but in perfect condition, and the price was right, FREE. I helped a G scale dealer set up and brake down .Now I can't seem to find an Aristo TE receiver. Any ideas?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Now He's a "Winner" and he has a loco too!! Great going also! 

FREE eh... 

Dirk


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

dpotp 

Can you specifiy the Reciever your looking for? I have several I'd be willing to sale. 

Michael


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## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

I was looking for Aristo train engineer 2.4 ghz receiver #cre57002.


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