# Track Stone



## Pjhinde (Mar 11, 2013)

I had put this link to some shots regarding track bed stones within a reply but thought it best to raise it up one level. So my question to Todd, Dave, and anyone else does the stones I show in the pictures look too smooth and I need even rougher cut. 

http://pj-pjphotos.blogspot.com/201...on-on.html

Pj


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi PJ,

The size ought to be 1/4" downwards really; even that is possibly a bit large andthe stones have rough edges -so they can lock together.

I live in the UK, but from long use of the site crusher fines (in the USA) seem to be the best for ballast; here is a link off the web that may help

http://mcshardscape.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/109_0692.245104508_std.JPG

copy and paste it - it does not want to become active for some reason.

that should come out as a red color - sorry about that; its just so you can see what they look like!

Yours Peter.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Ballast needs to be sharp edged so it locks together and stays put. 

Andrew


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## Pjhinde (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks Peter,

You pic looks almost like decomposed granit, what would you think of that idea, I was thinking about using that as it does fuse together over time as well?

Pj


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The rocks, ballest should be small enough to fill in the space between ties. This will help keep your track in alignment. I can get crusher fines at a local rock supplier near me in northern Virginia. I drive my SUV into their yard and start shoveling. I have a tarp on a large piece of cardboard to protect the inside of the car. When I lived in Colorado, I knew a road cut where the Pikes Peak Granite had decomposed into a coarse angular sand/gravel that was ideal for ballast. The only cost was gas and time. Chuck


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

PJ, 

The picture of rocks you showed is still considered River Rock. The edges have been smoothed out by the processes of water flowing over the surface of the rock. Railroads prefered a rock that has been processed through a rock crusher. This gives the edges an angular appearance. This is prefered because the edges provide a place for the rock to lock into place instead of slide past each other like a smooth surface does. 

My suggestion is to find something that is no bigger than 1/4" size. Sometimes its called chicken grit, sometimes is just called crushed rock. It really depends on the part of the country your in. The decomposed granite is usually an angular material and that might work.


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## Pjhinde (Mar 11, 2013)

Based on what everyone said about the track bed rock, I think decomposed granit is the way to go. I will take some shots of it to give you a better idea and post it in the new thread. It kind of sets up as Todd or Dave mentioned in one of their replies in a seperate thread, it is very rough cut, and 98% of the stones are 1/4" or less. I will put up some picks via my link sometime today. 

Pj


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Morning Pj, 
Good to see you asking about ballast, I didn't want to insult your earlier method, just steer you towards a better solution. 
For ballast we want broken or crushed rock with sharp jagged corners. From experience we have found that this rock will lock together while ballast made from smooth river or beach pebbles will move away from where you want it. 
Before dumping your ballast on the ground, lay down a barrier of weed cloth, to prevent your gravel from migrating deeper into the soil/ground. 
The only problem with Decomp Granite is it holds dirt, which prevents good drainage. Wash it first and you should be ok. 

Before you decide to go the rock route I should point out that many folks will pour a concrete roadbed and others have used wooden planks, bricks and pavers. I suggest you look through the bridge and track forum and just look at the pictures until you see a method that you like. 
Grades should ... er might could outer be kept low and gradual, 3% is a general rule for maximun grade on a mainline, 3" of rise for every 100" of travel ( a tad more than 8') With a 10" clearance that means your train must travel 25 feet. Of course you could make it as steep as your loco can handle, but it is felt that will shorten the loco's life. 

Ask away and understand if somebody suggests looking into the forums, it's because the answers are there, several times over. Some do get tired of repeating themselves as new members arrive. They know the best answer is there and now they might only offer the Cliff notes... ;-) 

Happy Rails, 

John


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## Pjhinde (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks John, and I do understand about repeating oneself over and over. That is why I have taken the angle of just showing my status and for those who have suggestions can jump in. And I do look for headings in the different forums that might fit my question before I ask them. As for decomposed granit, I have been using it in other areas of my yard for years and as you said regarding dirt I have found pro's and con's regarding it. Once set up it does allow you to use a blower at low speed on it, and you can hose it with a finer water flow power setting. I am going to post some shots here in a bit to show the kind of stuff I am talking about. As for your pre-lay ground cloth idea, I like that as it will also assist in some vegitation grow through. Mother nature is strong willed. 

Thanks and I appreciate your time and thought.
Pj


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Ma Nature Always wins! 

Have Fun 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Many people have said ballast no larger than 1/4" .... 

That is great if you don't have a lot of rain that causes erosion. 

My track gets "rain" 3 times a day from sprinklers. I use ballast that the largest pieces just fit between the ties. This resists rain and water much better. Does not look as "scale" as smaller ballast, but MUCH less maintenance. I can wash my track off with a garden hose sprayer. 

So, there's another point of view and different results based on a priority of low maintenance. 

Greg


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## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Mar 2013 12:16 PM 
Many people have said ballast no larger than 1/4" .... 

That is great if you don't have a lot of rain that causes erosion. 

My track gets "rain" 3 times a day from sprinklers. I use ballast that the largest pieces just fit between the ties. This resists rain and water much better. Does not look as "scale" as smaller ballast, but MUCH less maintenance. I can wash my track off with a garden hose sprayer. 

So, there's another point of view and different results based on a priority of low maintenance. 

Greg 

This was my past experience also! I tried using stone dust, it looks very realistic and costs next to nothing where I live. However, after about 2-weeks of normal rain and sprinklers it just vanishes!
The 1/4" & larger crushed stone worked much better.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Another point of view Pj..........










#5 Crusher Fines under Sunset Valley code 250 aluminum track (narrow gauge ties). Russ Rutalj's elevated track here in Sun Valley, CA.


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## Pjhinde (Mar 11, 2013)

Very nice and thanks for sharing the pic and out look. Looks great!

Pj


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## iaviksfan (Dec 27, 2007)

So whats the story with NOT using chicken grit? Most books will tell you not to use it, but dont explain why? 
Thanks 
Greg R.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Do the books that espouse NOT using chicken grit give any explanation or reasoning? 

If so, examine the reasoning... if not, throw the book away... point is without some supporting reasoning, you will get hundreds of "this is the best way" suggestions... 

Ask for explanation and reasoning and you will find the "best way" arguments diminish rapidly. 

Greg


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg; 

Just a guess. Some farm supply stores sell crushed oyster shells as chicken grit. You only should use crushed granit. (Remember, don't take your pet rock for granit!) Oyster shell grit can decompose pretty fast under our track. I would guess that running trains actually acts like hammering on the crushed shells. 

Many years ago I had a turtledove as a pet. I had to buy the Harts Mountain crushed stone (maybe it was quartz) to put out with his seed. Birds use small irregular stones in their crops to grind the seeds they eat (think of them as personal millstones for the birds). Chicken farmers need to supply their large flocks with some pretty heavy duty amounts of stone, hence the hefty bags of crushed granit chicken grit. 

The only other caution I could guess at is that the finer grades, like starter grit, could really mess up a turnout in the points and throwbar area. I usually did not place any ballast under the points and throwbar. 

Hope this helps, 
David Meashey


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## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By iaviksfan on 12 Mar 2013 01:11 PM 
So whats the story with NOT using chicken grit? Most books will tell you not to use it, but dont explain why? 
Thanks 
Greg R. 

I had tried using this when I first started, big mistake!
I am glad I only tried it on a small section of track, maybe 4' in length. I will admit, it looked great, perfect size even!
And then......it got WET...it expanded like a new sponge when you first put it in water.

Probably would work fine if you lived in a dry part of the country that received less then a inch of rainfall for the entire year.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That might be because chicken grit can be made of different things... if it was granite it would not expand, perhaps it had some oyster shell, or calcium based stuff in it? 

Greg


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## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Mar 2013 01:43 PM 
That might be because chicken grit can be made of different things... if it was granite it would not expand, perhaps it had some oyster shell, or calcium based stuff in it? 

Greg 

I can't recall, all I remember was I bought it from a real country feed store. It was in a big 50lb bag that was just marked chicken grit. The ants loved it!


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Many in the Midwest use chicken grit, it looks good but will erode. Some will choose Turkey grit, similar but larger. We can buy by the bag that is crushed granite found in different colors, pink to gray. I have been using crushed brick that we can get nearby by the truck load.


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## iaviksfan (Dec 27, 2007)

Never heard of Turkey grit. But will look for it. Is that something Theisens would have? Not sure if you have that in Central Iowa. Eastern Iowa does though. 
Free popcorn is a great way to shop..... 
Greg R.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Should be available in farm or feed stores. Same as chicken grit, just larger. We don't have Theisens real close by.


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