# USAT SD40-2



## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

hello all, I am new to 1:29 scale, and i have only a few cars and a USA Trains SD40-2. My wife said i should get it when we were at the hobby store. She felt that buying smaller scales was not enough train for the buck. I told her she had no idea what can of worms would open from this, but she insisted soooo.

while i do not have a working railroad yet, i am spending some time collecting things and instead of rushing trains out to the rails spending some time detailing and fixing up my stock. anyway, enough of that, what im here to ask questions on is putting sound into the sd40 model. any tips or recommendations? what boards are good, where to get the best, that sort of thing. any tips on sound would be helpful at this point. also i plan to add ditchlights to the model in CSX style and detail the model some, so tips there might help too. 


thanks in advance.

-Justin


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## NW Jim (Jan 2, 2008)

Justin, 

Take the last sentence of the first paragraph and blow it up into a poster and place it somewhere very visible in the house. That's the best advice I can give you at this time...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Justin, what is your budget for sound? 

Will you pay more for quality sound? (the prices for the hardware alone can vary from $75 to $220 

Are you running DC only right now? 

Will you change to some form of remote control? 

Are you going to stay track power or go battery? 

The answer to your seemingly simple question can be complicated unless you can "narrow down" the requirements. Try answering those questions first. 

Regards, Greg


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

i am willing to pay for some nice sounds, i understand it can get expensive, but considering what i have spent already on just the purchase of the locomotive, giving it high quality/dollar sound makes sense to me. at this time where i dont have the expense of laying rail, i want to spend time and money detailing my models.


i dont really have a timeline on a permanent set up right now, so im using DC for the time being.

remote control... yes.


the way i envision it is doing track power with option of battery power, switching between the two as required.



i have somewhat of a background in electronics and have several ideas on how i will do things and i am also experienced in other scales, HO and N occupied me until about the time i got married, now i mainly collect.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

What Greg said. Give a little thought to how you want the thing to end up. Indoor or out? Battery powered, or track powered? DCC or DC? 



There are not that many options for sound. The best two in my opinion are QSI and Phoenix. Both are pricey and they both kind of involve bigger decisions about what kind of operating system you want to end up with down the road. I use QSI on DCC and I'm very happy with it, but I tried a bunch of other things before I got there. 


Let's take battery operation off the table for the moment. 


If you bought a Phoenix card it would offer very high quality sounds under strraight DC--an automated sequence of start up/reverse/slow don sounds and the ability to trigger bell and whistle with track magnets. To get the most out of the Phoenix card, you'd want to run it via a remote handheld transmitter, like the Aristo "revolution." You'd buy a decoder, a tramsmitter, and a few other things, wire it up, and you could drive the train and triger various sounds


If you bought a QSI card you would have high quality engine and strart up/reverse sounds and limited control of the horn using the polarity switch of a powe rpack. If you bought their "quantum engineer" you could have full control of the sounds under DC. If you wated to get the most out of the QSI card, you'd want to get either a DCC system or a remote wireless throttle system like Airwire. 


The cheapest, easiest way to add sound is probably to get a small scale railways card, which runs on a 9 volt battery and offers decent sounds. It's easy to install. Dalllee makes a couple sound cards for diesels--reviews are mixed. There's a newcomer called "Mylocosound (http://www.mylocosound.com/largedieselsummary.html) I've seen mixed reviews of that as well. You can go to the website and hear for yourself.


Good luck! And hold your wife to that promise!


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

maybe then we should examine those other things in detail first then.

the permanent setup will be outdoors, ss track. that is all i know about that right now. so i guess control is still up in the air for me too. i like the idea of remotely controlled using a constant track power or batt. but i have neither of those at this very moment. i just knew that once i pulled this thing off the shelf it would get sounds. thank you for the input.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Go the Phoenix or QSI as Mike said... either can be used with track power, DCC, AirWire. All 3 methods can have wireless remote control. 

The Phoenix will be more expensive in the long run, but has more features on "plain" DC right now... 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

If you should go to DCC you can still use the Phoenix board in your SD40 and still enjoy the great sound. I have converted several USAT loco's to DCC but retained the phoenix board. I did convert most locos over to QSI but that is when prices where a bit cheaper. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

If you put MTH DCS in it you could have your smoker smoke like this... check out video at end







Ray has been playing around with smoke units and has figured out a way to make USA smoke like this and has increased the smoke out of a Aristo unit and even figured out how to get Aristo units not to shut off after 3 minutes.........


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... the left hand unit is running out of steam! 

Are these 2 units from a USAT? 

Hmm... 

Greg


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## billsharron (Jan 3, 2008)

Pretty impressive! When will we get to see how it is done!!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

They surely are not USAT units. As the video shows the older style metal smoke inserts. Probably TAS units. I can get my TAS units to work just as good on DCC so its not all DCS. They could be two of the newer units from USAT also. Mine will smoke like that using DCC. Later RJD


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Since you are new to this Justin, and I don't think the link has been posted yet, here is a link to the Phoenix sound website:

Phoenix Sound

And more for your specific loco, here is Phoenix's recommended sound for the SD40-2:


Phoenix SD40

Although I'm more familiar with Phoenix steam sounds, the clip for the SD40 sounds great to me, especially the prime mover. I'm not sure if you can change the horn type with Phoenix diesel sounds like you can with some HO scale sound decoders. But the sound clip horn sounds like the typical freight loco...not getting too detailed with prototype railroads and the horns they used. I'm not the biggest fan of that bell sound though.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 11 Jan 2010 05:35 PM 
They surely are not USAT units. As the video shows the older style metal smoke inserts. Probably TAS units. I can get my TAS units to work just as good on DCC so its not all DCS. They could be two of the newer units from USAT also. Mine will smoke like that using DCC. Later RJD 

No RJ these are stock USA units








look at the bottom of the video you will see the USA smokers installed....... I luv this hobby


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

i looked around at the QSI site and listened to the sounds with the upgrade tool, i cant say i was too impressed with the EMD sounds. they just did not sound right. the PS ones sound more like the real thing to me.i didnt think the PS sound on their site for the sd70 sounded anything like an SD70 either though... i am pretty nitpicky when it comes to the sounds i guess. 


i wonder if anyone has video of theirs and what they sound like. ive got a couple of youtube hits, but im really not wanting to be disappointed.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This stuff tends to get personal and people defend their choices pretty hard. 

I do think that some of the individual phoenix sound sound files are better. Some of them have a lot of reverb on them and sound "prettied up," but that can be a good effect. But QSI has some features which in my opinion make it better in operations--specifically, the sound of the engine changes in response to load, not just speed. When the loco hits an upgrade, the engine roars louder, and when it levels off the engine gets quiet and the timbre changes. Phoenix cards change the motor sound with speed, but not with load. It tends to get irritating, especially if, like I do, you like to just let the trains run. It's always exactly the same sound. I have a Aristo RS3 with a QSI card and a USAT S-4 with a Phoenix card, and I run them in a consist. I just switched the Phoenix card off, because it gets monotonous. The QSI cards are much more realistic in the sense that the engine sounds varies with the actual conditions on the track. Phoenix cards have a trigger that changes the engine sound to simulate drift or a heavy load, but you have to trigger it manually each time.


QSI works this way because it's a motor controller, not just a sound card. It senses the load on the motor, not just the input voltage. I wish I could find a good way to record this effect, but I haven't figured it out yet. I'm a musician, and fairly sensitive to sound, (although not to prototype) and when I saw how the QSI works I was delighted. Especially with steam, you avoid the dreaded "machine gun" effect. Under DCC the QSI cards are a blast.


Whatever control system you end up using, the Phoenix will still be useful and sound good


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike do you have a QSI steamer? The drift feature is also pretty cool, the loco is almost silent when it drifts, then the chuffs come back with a vengeance when accelerating. 

I likewise think the Phoenix sounds are more "evolved" but also agree to dump the extra "reverb". 

Regards, Greg


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

ok, here are my thoughts for the SD40 sound. the EMD SD40-2 uses the 16-645 engine, it has a pretty recognizable sound, at least to someone like myself. some people cant tell the difference in the 567,645, or 710. in my mind, you have to be slow or drunk to miss them. 

Phoenix Sound - like the prime mover for the 645 a lot, nice startup sound, doesnt seem too repetitive. however i find the 710 engine (sd60-70 etc) they have sounds just like the 645. bell and horn i dont know, can you change them like the QSI?

QSI - did not like the sound they say is configured for a GP or SD40, it sounds more like an old switch engine. i found one called GP20 there that i liked more, and i also like the wide range of configurable sounds. i noticed a lot of repeating in the sound, but as i was not running it in a model i dont know what it will really be like. 



what about other sound decoders? are these the best ones? MRC has some i have seen but never heard. MRC in my experience in other scales usually has some nice quality sounds from the real locomotives.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, yes I have QSI in four steamers and its a really great effect


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

If you go with the Phoenix then you have to spend at least $150+ for the Airwire receiver to go with it. The G-wire from QSI is only $75+ per engine. Something to think about. QSI/G-wire for ME all the way. And then if you are NOT Lektrically minded like me wiring and such another good reason to go the QSI way. Cost and ease of installation my friend! Regal


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By NS37 on 11 Jan 2010 08:03 PM 
what about other sound decoders? are these the best ones? MRC has some i have seen but never heard. MRC in my experience in other scales usually has some nice quality sounds from the real locomotives. 

Yikes, MRC? I have a few Athearn HO locos with onboard MRC DCC/Sound. Not realistic sound at all. Although you can choose multiple horns and bell ring rates which helps. But their DCC sound boards are overall very buggy.

For HO scale the best right now would probably be Soundtraxx Tsunami. Then ESU Loksound would be a very close second choice since you can configure and upload your own custom sounds to the board (at a pretty high startup price though since you need a special computer interface from ESU to do it). QSI is also pretty good, but some sound choices are not as prototypical as the previous two. 


But I still have not found the one best for all uses HO DCC + sound decoder yet. I'm still trying to configure my Loksound decoder to be as realistic as I can for an Amtrak P42. However if Tsunami allowed you to upload your own sounds then it would get the nod as #1 sound decoder. Since it can't, it does not get my 100% endorsement.

Sorry for all the HO info, probably not that useful on this largescale forum


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

curious, all the ones ive heard sounded like they should, even in N scale. the engine sounds are correct, and are not just random samples and mixed sounds. thats all i can seem to find. as i said i like the QSI ones for G scale in the features, but the sounds seem to be cobbled together and are not realistic at all. i would expect a recording of the real engines, like i do for my simulator models, if there was a way to add your own sounds for these id have no problems at all


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Zimo sound is also good, and you get a DCC decoder with them. 

And they cost less than the phoenix. However they work best on a DCC system. 

So, picking how you will power/run your trains should be a choice made first. 

If choosing the Phoenix, the computer programmer is extremely helpful.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

QSI software lets you put together a sound file for your loco--they have a set of components and you can mix them. For example, in steam they have 4 different chuffs and a whole bunch of whistles. You can combine them to make a distinct file. I can't remember how many diesel sounds they have--I use a mac and to check I'd have to reboot the machine in windows.


You can add a user recorded sound but it's limited. For example, you could record yourself saying "you kids get off my lawn!" and trigger that if you wanted. I don;t think you could add your own motor sound 


QSI's sound library does seem a little limited to me. Probably the best sounds are in MTH, which uses a proprietary control system and sells all its locos with sound included. If I were starting from scratch I might go with MTH. You can have the MTH hardware installed in a USAT loco, but it's not always easy to do it yourself.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

What really sounds good when the QSI goes into coast on the steamer and you have played with the rod clank it will really be noticeable. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

The rod clank is a really cool sound, i luv it in my 0 6 0........


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

so far im only getting more confused. i asked about an SD40-2, and im getting more advice on steam sounds... does anyone model modern stuff?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

No the thread is just drifting. Lots of people model modern stuff. The load-dependent aspects of the QSI cards are really pronounced in steam, that's all. 

Accuracy to prototype is definitely more pressing if you are modeling modern stuff. I have a model of a steam engine which went out of service in 1954. There's only one left, and it will never run again. Who knows what it sounded like? who has a reliable memory of sounds from 60 years ago? There are 't that many steam prototypes running



But I would have assumed QSI was out recording modern motive power, and trying to match model to sound. Maybe there's more variance in the model?


Also did you try it on larger speakers? The speaker in the typical computers never heard of bass frequencies


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They are recording more, but the G scale recordings have lagged behind the HO ones somewhat. 

Some of the sound files have the wrong prime mover set in them, easy to change. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. the thread is drifting probably because most people figure the question has been answered...


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

yes i know, i just dont want to shell out and not get what i want for the sound. i was really excited about QSI until i tried the software updated for the chips, where you configure your sounds. you can listen to them all there. and yes i have a nice 5.1 sound system on my pc  . i did find a setup that i customized that i would probably use if i went the QSI way, but it still makes me long for the real thing. i guess if they record better sounds i could get those. i am still stuck between the two, PS and QSI. i have been researching for hours, and its just hard to find for some reason, everything being flooded with N and HO scale on google and the like. i was lucky enough to find this place. 

i do developments in railroad related computer sims, and i have been out recording locomotives myself. the sound being prototypical is very important to me. i dont just want sound for the sake of having sound come out. i would have been delighted if they allowed custom engine sounds, and i could use my own. just dreaming i guess. 

i appreciate the input, but it seemed to dunk me in under water quicker than before.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well it sounds like your between a rock and a hard spot. Your are a type that has to have it perfect. Your not going to get it for now. You may just want to wait till sound files are improved. Folks here have given you the available choices and your still want better. You have done the searches and also come up empty. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The software program is NOT good to listen to the sounds, it only plays very little of the sounds and not entire sequences. Don't judge the product there, that program is just to CHOOSE the sounds, not evaluate them. 

(I was likewise disappointed at first because I assumed what I heard was "normal" operation of the sounds, it is not). 

See if you can listen to a QSI installed... I don't run any SD's, but if you can't, post again this weekend and I'll program one up and put it on youtube for you... (again my camera won't have great quality). 

Regards, Greg


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

ill tell ya friend, i have looked to find one installed and come up short so far. i have read some of your other threads, and after thinking it over pretty hard i just might want that feedback action from the motors you get on QSI. 

RJD its not that i am impossible to please, i just dont think that i know enough yet to make the choice, and more information is required.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One of the reasons I like QSI a lot, is that they are constantly upgrading things and adding new features. Phoenix has some GREAT sounds, I love their Alco, but nothing new happens. 

There are new features in the QSI several times a year, and there is a new version coming soon. If you can wait until about March, hopefully this new version will be here... I know it's been promised many times before, but I know the reasons for the delays, and they are moving forward.. 

At that time, the USAT specific one should be available... which will also save you installation work over what you can buy today. You have seen pictures of the prototype USAT one in my site? Takes longer to open the shell than to install the board. No soldering, just plug and play. 

Regards, Greg


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

thank you so much Greg, i feel much better about it. i think i will wait to see what happens in the QSI field, but i think i will go with that one. in the meantime, ive got to get back to weathering cars.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm.. I posted and it disappeared... so second try: 

Let me know if you want me to do a short Youtube video on the QSI, I will be playing with some new QSI features this weekend, and programming and messing around. 

Regards, Greg


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## NS37 (Jan 11, 2010)

thats funny, seems i saw that up there. i would greatly appreciate it if you could share a video. i have another project that i have started planning tonight that will keep me occupied. i am going ahead with adding the CSX style ditchlights to the model. they wont function (other than light up) just yet until i figure out where im going with the layout control.


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

wow!! what a groovy topic and place to talk about trains!! i also received my first g gauge engine a sd40 for x-mas and am looking for some sounds for it and a loud horn! i really like that video with all the smoke and i need that! i found a place called dalee and was wondering if that does smoke also??


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dallee makes sound systems, no smoke units. The Dallee sound is not on par with the Phoenix or QSI, so it was not suggested here, since the poster wants high quality, accurate sound. The Dallee is a mid-level, economical sound unit.


If you want a primer on what smoke units exist, try this: *http://www.elmassian.com...trong>**

Regards, Greg*


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Casey: Your SD40 has one of the better smoke units available. It is fan driven. The video posted by Nick are the new USAT smoke units which is in your SD 40. As for the sound If you have gone through this thread the choice is yours but for ease of installation if not going to DCC would be the Phoenix sound. BTW welcome to the MLS forum. Later RJD


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

thanks RJD as this looks like a nice place to talk about g gauge trains. my uncle has o gauge trains that are mostly high end brass made by Koh's & Company that cost many thousand dollars and they all have high end Dalle sound in them which sounds fantastik so I wouldn't dis dalee. after reading thru dalle website they can be powered by dc, dcc or batteries so it looks like anything the other sound people can do dalle can do thank you.

I put my sd40-2 on the track and the smoke doesn't do anything like what that nick guy video does which btw mr. nick is fantastik!! but wheres the rest of the engine to prove that it's a sd40-2?


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Casey,
If yours doesnt smoke like that you may have an earlier version that used wick type smoke units, If its a later model they switched to fan driven units witch work a lot better..







I think you will find that you will not use the smoke units that much anyways, a lot of people dont. i use them alot in my steamers not so much in the deisels.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 14 Jan 2010 07:52 AM 
Casey,
If yours doesnt smoke like that you may have an earlier version that used wick type smoke units, If its a later model they switched to fan driven units witch work a lot better..







I think you will find that you will not use the smoke units that much anyways, a lot of people dont. i use them alot in my steamers not so much in the deisels.


I don't run anything except USAT engines, new and old, and I've removed all my smoke units. True, I'm running inside, but even when I was out doors I used the smoke units for stationary items make camp fires, saw mills and the odd building. Now if USAT would come out with a C/M 630 or 636 I would use the on board smoke.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Those smoke units were not stock, Ray Manley had them modified. 

Maybe he will share his modifications with us, because stock USAT units do not smoke like that! 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Agreed--I've never bothered with USAT smoke units. What's the secret?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick did not mentioned that they had been modified. Mine smoke as good as his but I run on DCC. Puting these on a work bench indoors will defiantly show better smoke than if you run them out doors. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

My USA trains units do smoke very well with the fan driven smokers, But Ray is the king of smoke units and probably did some modifacations to his to improve there performance.... yours still may have the older version Wick type, you can tell by looking down the unit and you will or will not see a wick.







now not to get off subject but heres a MTH SMOKER in my heavly modified mikado nothing can touchem for 35.00........ Even some of the live steamer boys have said they cant touch this for smoke volume, and this was outside on a windy day....


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 14 Jan 2010 08:32 AM 
Nick did not mentioned that they had been modified. Mine smoke as good as his but I run on DCC. Puting these on a work bench indoors will defiantly show better smoke than if you run them out doors. Later RJD 

RJ, if you reed my 1st post i DID say Ray did work them over along with the aristo units that now from what ive been told do no longer cut out after 3 minutes ever..
Dont know what he did but he did figure it out.







you guys should drop him an email maybe he will tell you. heres Rays dash 9, I do know that Ray finished his conversion of his 10 dash-9s and was less than happy when he went to run the smoke units and some cut out, As ussual poor QC from aristo but i think when Ray gets pissed WELL GAME ON......The problem is now fixed period......... again i dont know how but he seems to figure out what others havent.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick since I've gone to DCC my Aristo smoke units have run so much better. go figure. I get long run times and plenty of smoke. Here again as I mentioned indoors the smoke units look great put them out doors and you will see a difference in how the work. I've done the same fin my shop. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By dawinter on 14 Jan 2010 08:06 AM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 14 Jan 2010 07:52 AM 
Casey,
If yours doesnt smoke like that you may have an earlier version that used wick type smoke units, If its a later model they switched to fan driven units witch work a lot better..







I think you will find that you will not use the smoke units that much anyways, a lot of people dont. i use them alot in my steamers not so much in the deisels.


I don't run anything except USAT engines, new and old, and I've removed all my smoke units. True, I'm running inside, but even when I was out doors I used the smoke units for stationary items make camp fires, saw mills and the odd building. Now if USAT would come out with a C/M 630 or 636 I would use the on board smoke. 

AAAAAAAAAAAA all good things come to those who wait.


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