# Rail Joiner Length



## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm getting ready, finally, to start laying track. One thing that has always annoyed me is that I see in pictures of other's track that most all of them have rather large spacing between the joined sections. I'm not making this observation to denigrate anyone else's work. The problem appears to be caused by the rail joiners (fish-plates) being too long and they bump up against the end tie of each section. I'm planning on cutting them in half, resulting in two usable and obviously shorter joiners. This allows the sections to be joined with consistent spacing between all of the ties. The resulting track looks to me more continuous and not sectional. 

My track is SVRR, ties and aluminum rail, and the layout is indoors. The engines are battery, no track power. The track will be nailed using the existing holes in the ties. I've done two sections this way and all appears good to me and the joints are secure. 



The question is - is there going to be a problem and, if so, what am I missing? 

Thanks, Mark


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Whose joiners are so long that they don't fit? Or are you trying to keep consistent tie spacing where the joiners go? 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Nope, you can do all that indoors, running at reasonable speed. A race course may need stronger joints. 
I don't like the tie gap either, I have a mental solution, just no Financing to Make it so. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You could change the joiners to the ones that look like the prototype, the plate in the web bolted on each side... that will not interfere with "spikes" or ties. 

Greg


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Greg:

The joiner are supplied by SVRR.

I see the same issue for may other manufacturer's track. 

Here's an example, look at the 5th picture and 7th here -- section gap. Again I'm not being critical of others work, just using this as an example of the issue.

Thanks, Mark


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, some gap is good. It helps with the thermal expansion and contraction of the rails. By cutting the joiners in half it is possible that one of the rails will completely pull out. I help Dr. Rivet get his track ready for meets. There are always a couple of joiners where one of the rails is completely out and his are full sized (code 250). Repeated temperature changes will move the joiners and the rails. Don't nail the track down on close centers. Allow 4-6' between anchoring screws or nails. Otherwise on a hot day you might find your track separated from the ties. GIVE YOUR TRACK ROOM TO MOVE. Chuck


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Chuck:

As I said, I'm all indoors. I don't believe that there will be much, if any, expansion and contraction. The temperature in the basement location is very consistent.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a tip "handyman" (I assume that is the desired translation), not all of us can remember your layout is indoors.... I seem to remember another thread where we were going all over the place with recommendations that were all unnecessary because you later revealed your layout was inside... 

The tip: just remember to state that it's indoors... helps everyone... just mention it in the first post... I read every post on this forum, don't have Alzheimer's (yet ha ha) and did not remember... 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Mark, they aren't reading very well today! lol 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your complaint is the gap in the ties at every joint, the gap is bigger than a normal gap, yet smaller than 2 ties and their gaps. 
Some folk just cut the spike detal off and slip bare ties under the joiners, but the gaps on each side are a tad bigger with a single tie, than between the other ties. 

The gaps are provided by our toy train track makers... 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Greg try reading the 3rd paragraph , 1st post.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Time to take out the "stupid" post-it and wear it on my forehead for the day.... (I hate it when that happens) 

;-) 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I missed the indoor also. Greg, got an extra postit for me? Chuck


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

John:

Yes, you are correct. I though of slicing and dicing the ties as you described, but didn't want to lose the detail of the plates and spikes.

Greg:

Yes, that is the proper interpretation.

No, that discussion was not with me. I believe that I always state that my layout is indoors on any posts asking for advice.

Mark


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The Train-Li track, switches, ties and joiners/clamps were designed for not having a tie gap where sections are joined. 
And if you look closely at the molded hardware, the heads are placed in different directions. 
Too late to help here as it sounds like the indoor layout already has the track in place.


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Hello Mark, I'm doing an indoor layout too. Here my solution: 
(Third picture down) 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/9/aft/127938/afv/topic/Default.aspx 

TOM


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By **** Habilis on 08 May 2013 02:46 PM 
John:

Yes, you are correct. I though of slicing and dicing the ties as you described, but didn't want to lose the detail of the plates and spikes.

Mark 
Mark,

I think you might be looking for fly "specks" in pepper here with the dicing of the ties. I have attached two photos of Paul Burch's layout, in the Pacific Northwest. His railroad is probably of one the most detailed trackwork anywhere. He uses the same SV aluminum rail that you use and the same ties. Find the joiners? By the time your layout is ballasted, you will have trouble seeing your gaps, believe me.



























The proof is in these pictures.


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## backyardRR (Aug 14, 2012)

The first time I placed my sectional track down on my patio test loop last year I also noticed the tie gaps between the sections.
HO modelers who use flex track simply insert loose ties into the gaps. After ballasting they are virtually unnoticable. I used a
similar method on my Knackered Valley Railroad. Actually, the examples that Mark used were of the KV before the fix.
Shown below is the "before" picture.









I bought some wood pieces at Lowes that were pretty close to the Aristo tie dimensions. I cut them to length and painted them flat black.









After they are placed into the gaps all that is needed is the final "ballast" application. Perhaps gloss black to match the Aristo ties would have been better but you get the idea. Actually, to the naked eye they blend in nicely. Of course, there is no spike or tie plate detail
but the overall effect is what I am looking for. The wood won't last forever but it will do until I can get some loose plastic ties.
Hey, maybe I found a use for that steel Bachmann track that came with my Big Hauler ;}


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I also use SVRR track (since 1997) and for outdoors have come to appreciate the longer brass joiners. I say longer because years ago they were a little shorter. The longer joiners hold the track much better than the older ones for outdoor use. Back to the gap between ties. I just slip a single tie or two under the joiner to fill the gap. You will probably need to cut the spike heads off so they will fit under the joiner. When finished it looks fine. Won't even be noticed.
OOPS. Gary,I missed your post with the photos.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

It took me a while to figure out what you guys were talking about.


Most of if not all of the gaps at rail joints can be concealed with ballasting.

I realize that it may be a problem that others may not see it if the ballast is in place but you know it is there ....There for it is annoying

JJ


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks to all who responded as you've given me some alternative approaches to pursue before I commit to one method over another. 


Hopefully I'll try a couple of variations this weekend. The main issue that I am facing is that the track is 45" off of the floor so it is very close to eyes and I'm concerned about making it look good. After all, it's just another piece of modeling so I hope to have a reasonable level of fidelity.


Thanks again.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I think you'll be fine doing it your way, indoors. 

How fidley do you want to get? With a ball burr in a hand tool you could enlarge the space for the rail and slide the tie over the joiner, keeping the spike detail. Though thinner. 

Happy Rails 

John


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