# I Should Be Working At Massoth!



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

The new Garden Railways Magazine arrived today and our own Kevin Strong ran a test of the new Massoth loop control (_Reverse Course_). The unit carries a retail price of $128.50. By description, the unit functions as the loop control I previously posted (and included below), coupled with the Tortoise Bump track sensors. Of couse if you build it my way, you would save over $100.









This takes care of polarity. The reed switches shown can be directly swapped out for the "Tortoise Bump" sensors as I've noted here in the past. In that case, the 6 volts would be applied directly to the track and the small section of insulated rail would feed what is shown as the output from the reed switch. This works with dc or DCC.









The Tortoise Bump sensors documented here many times (two insulators with a small piece of rail sandwiched in between).


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Even though I understand your diagram and how to build, test and install it, I would never do it. 

Most here would not know how to fix it when it breaks, and it will break sometime in the future!! 

It is far easier for me to just use 2 tracks and I can run 2 trains even on analog DC with ease.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with the statement "I would never do it" 

I agree with the statement about not knowing how to fix it. 

I agree that it's easier to use 2 separate tracks... 

BUT 

Not one of those statements were the point, now were they? 

If he can make them for $28, then someone can make them cheaper than Massoth (hello, that was the thread topic!) 

I agree, he designed it much cheaper AND the Massoth obviously uses relays, from the audible click. 

For $28, if you hook it up and it breaks, throw it away! You can do this several times and still be cheaper. 

I think a little credit is due here. 

Plus, the last statement is just out of place... if you want it easy, yes, don't make DC layouts with reverse loops. 

In fact you can make it even simpler, instead of 2 tracks use one... 

Or to further simplify, how about no tracks, then you will never have any problems. 

That last statement was really not relevant Dan... now you know me well enough - I'm not being mean - it's just that he has a clever solution, and we could acknowledge it. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It looks to me like Massoth unit can be powered directly from the track--it dos not need a separate power supply. Is that right? That would be much easier on a layout like mine than running wires from a power supply


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

Are the Tortoise bump track sensors available pre made, as a kit, or do I go out, get the parts, and put one together? All for less than $28.00. 
The Massoth sensor is a plug and play item. One would have to decide the value of time, complexity, and money to determine what's best for their situation. 
Steve


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 27 Feb 2010 08:44 AM 
It looks to me like Massoth unit can be powered directly from the track--it dos not need a separate power supply. Is that right? That would be much easier on a layout like mine than running wires from a power supply The Massoth unit operates at 14-27 volts. Kevin could not get it to operate at lesser voltages. Do you really want to run your trains this fast just to use the reverse loop?









It is a simple matter to tap off of the track and run it through a bridge rectifier and voltage regulator as I've documented here in the past (left side of the included circuit), in which case you would need to run the unit at a minimum of ~8 volts to the track, a nice slow speed. Use lower voltage relays and you can run them down even slower. Of course then you need to add $2-3 to the cost of making it. In actuality, there are far more people on this forum who would rather spend $5 for a 6 volt "wall wart" than try to solder a bridge rectifier to a voltage regulator and a couple capacitors.

But I think that if you went this route, you may want to use the reed switches rather than the "Bump A.S.S." sensors. This is because once you take the track voltage and regulate it, if you put it back to the rails it could interfere with the unregulated voltage since they emanate from the same source so are ultimately tied back to each other. (Similar to the idea of running a common rail. You can tie as many independant power supplied to the common rail as you desire, _just so they are independant back to the wall plug_.) I'd have to give this more thought/experimentation to be sure though.

Of couse if you use the "wall wart," you could run them at any speed you like. BTW The "wall wart" need not be a "wall wart" at all and can simply be 6 volts worth of batteries. Then you are not wired to a secondary power source.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By SLemcke on 27 Feb 2010 09:11 AM 
Are the Tortoise bump track sensors available pre made, as a kit, or do I go out, get the parts, and put one together? All for less than $28.00. 
The Massoth sensor is a plug and play item. One would have to decide the value of time, complexity, and money to determine what's best for their situation. 
Steve 

The Tortoise Bump track sensors are simply two AristoCraft or LGB (or whomever) track insulators with a small section of rail sandwiched between them just long enough to fill the gap. Costs ~$2 to make each one (price of two insulators).


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 27 Feb 2010 05:04 AM 
Even though I understand your diagram and how to build, test and install it, I would never do it. 

Most here would not know how to fix it when it breaks, and it will break sometime in the future!! 

It is far easier for me to just use 2 tracks and I can run 2 trains even on analog DC with ease. 



Except for the relays, there is nothing to fail! This is far simpler and less prone to failure than any electronic unit, that will also incorporate a relay(s) or at least an H-bridge.


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

I believe that the same thing can be done with a double throw center off switch. I did it in HO scale. 
Of course you have to be there to throw the switch. 

Ken owner of K&K the road to nowhere


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Great effort Todd. 
You never know, the manufacturers may even see the light and make and sell "stuff" with a reasonable profit margin instead of the 5 x times above landed cost they currently use. 

Ken, you could even throw the switch remotely if you wanted too. But, automatic is more reliable than asking an operator to remember to throw that switch.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 27 Feb 2010 04:32 PM 
Great effort Todd. 
You never know, the manufacturers may even see the light and make and sell "stuff" with a reasonable profit margin instead of the 5 x times above landed cost they currently use. 

Ken, you could even throw the switch remotely if you wanted too. But, automatic is more reliable than asking an operator to remember to throw that switch. 




Thanks. Means a lot.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I haven't seen the article, but which exact Massoth product is he reviewing? They've had a reverse loop module out for years, so I'm not sure what he's referring to. 
I'm always a little suspicious because you don't get something for nothing. Here is a copy of the text from the Massoth site, so Todd can you system do all of this?

The DiMAX Reverse Loop Module is a high performance unit which is able to handle digital track currents up to 15 AMPS without causing a short circuit. 
Conventional units cause short term, short circuits when the train enters the loop to trigger a change in the polarity of the track voltage. 
The new DiMAX Reverse Loop Module avoids just that. The deliberate overload of the Digital Central Station by this method does not exist anymore. The DiMAX Reverse Loop Module extends the lifespan of all components involved considerably.

The DiMAX Reverse Loop Module works with all NMRA/DCC compatible digital systems and depending on the voltage used, handles up to 15 Amps. Current consumption like this can easily be reached with multiple motored G-Scale locomotives or consists of multiple locomotives. 
The DiMAX Reverse Loop Module may be used in the regular short circuit mode as well.

The set includes 8 insulated track connectors and 4 sensing track units.



Keith


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