# Straw poll, and if it's in the wrong place...



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

I apologise and crave the indulgence of the moderators, who will move it.


Having missed out on voting for the last big live-steamer [the Aster GN S-2 was chosen - I would have voted for the SP&S #700 or the Santa Fe #3751], I just thought I'd get my shots in first this time around.


Having recently been looking at the forthcoming productions for AccuCraft, and pretty mouth-watering they are, too, I was betabed by the appearance of the EBT#12, a VERY fine-looking locomotive indeed.

So impressed was I, that it behove me to revisit an ancient greep of mine, namely that nobody has so far built a correct scale Fn3 model of what, IMO, is THE most popular and well-visited three-foot live-steamer on the planet. 

I'm referring, of course, to the White Pass & Yukon route's own Baldwin mike, #73, visited by over one million tourists last year, according to the figures, making this world heritage railroad one ofthe most popular tourist lines on earth.

So howsabout it, guys and gals?

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Terry, never mind about the scale;-)... what we need is live steam in any scale, 15mm being better for steam of course, and I definitely like the idea of a live steam WP&Y #73!! The only problem is where will you find 50 people willing to buy one... One option is of course that you guys and gals buy all fourty nine, that is between you, Ig and the crows #1 to #47. Oh, that leaves #50 for me of course!! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi 
PS but you probably need to wait three years to see one drawn and announced and another three to see one made... if you are lucky that is!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry
Rumor has it that either UP FEF or Challenger are front runners for SG. Yet, the poll will not have any momentum unless the present stock is purchased. I have heard others express interest in PRR Mountain, Southern RR Pacific, C &O 614 that one could put forth.

Seems as if the next model would be at least 2-5 years until it is available.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Charles, the present stock (1:32) has all been purchased (probably not including the F4/F5 as these are still on the boat). Check the latest NG&SLG! Best, Zubi


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Yo Zubi - yep, I know about all the other stuff that may or may not be coming down the tracks from Mr Cheng and the boys, but thought that if nobody says anything, then those who are fans of the WP&YRR will be left out in the cold again, so to speak. After all, we already have Rich Yoder's fine EBT mike #15 - albeit a sparkie - and with the threat of #12 looming from AccuCraft, there is a danger that us Baldwin fans will be maxed out before we remember that #73 is also a Philly product!

Me and ig and the crows would certainly consider breaking into our respective piggy-banks for a Fn3 version of #73, given the disaster of the last offering from 'those who are no longer here to criticise'. I'm pretty sure that the J&S cars could be re-lettered to read the appropriate titles, too.

My guess is that there would be the necessary buyers among us for fifty, given the populaity of the real thing - hardly anybody I know hasn't actually been to Skagway among the retired old farts who make up much of my social circle.

Except me, of course.

Best to you over there

tac & ig & the crows
www.ovgrs.org


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

No Zubi, unfortunately Charles is right about the supply issue. There are a number of SG & NG engines still in stock that will have to move before we can seriously expect future projects to be considered. There are still a number of Aster GNs left plus some other Aster models in US stocks. And I think that there are still some Accucraft Royal Hudson's available. Add to that the engines that have been moved out of Accucraft stock into dealer hands, and that makes a good supply of available engines not yet in customers' hands -- and I'm not even including the engines already near the end of the pipeline like the SP F4, the K-36 plus the second run of Cab Forwards. So the market hasn't fully absorbed what's currently available, and the people making the decisions about what to commission next take this into account before committing to a new project. And let's not forget the fact that in the US, unemployment is running 9.5% nationwide, there is a continuing recession, and the stock & financial markets have a long way to go to return to health. When all these things are considered, it takes a monumental leap of faith for someone (be it Accucraft or Aster) to start up a major new project for the US market. Now if Accucraft can profitably do an engine with only 50 committed sales and some 50 folks quickly pony up enough money to guarantee that they won't back out, then maybe Accucraft will jump on that project poste haste. 

It certainly is fun to speculate and wish for your favorite engine (and I have my own) , but it is wise to remember the economic realities of the situation. I think it is safe to say that in the past few years we've never had it so good for live steam variety -- and these times may never come again. I hope I'm wrong, but there it is. In the meantime, enjoy what you got. 

Ross Schlabach


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Ross, Thanks for the comment, but I thought that Charles was talking about the stock at Accucraft themselves. In this context, how else would you interpret the statement in the May/June issue of the Gazette?? The dealers will always have some stock, it may be headache for them but that is another story, they just need to give a better discount;-)) As for the economic situation, considering that the typical development of a project at Accucraft takes four to five years, and now and in the coming year or two will be exactly the time that one should start thinking about the new good ideas and start developing them. We all know that economy shows periodic fluctuations and it does not make sense to wait for the peak economy in say 4-6 years to begin a project which will only be released when there will be another downward swing in 7-12 years time from now. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

IMHO the most beautiful Baldwin engine built was/is the CB&Q 5600 class 4-8-4's which in real life ran through my parents back yard. What a thunderous engine. I remember the 0-5 A's I(coal) and the 05-B's (oil). Just to hear one again. 
Noel


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Noel, that is a standard gauge thing... Terry asks if anyone would like one of the WP&Y #73's... although I am not sure how he is going to convince any of the crows to give one a miss in your favour? Best, Zubi


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Zubi
The "poll" introduction could be interrupted as open to SG based on:
"Having missed out on voting for the last big live-steamer [the Aster GN S-2 was chosen - I would have voted for the SP&S #700 or the Santa Fe #3751], I just thought I'd get my shots in first this time around."


Seems to me that TAC did not limited it to NG but he decided to indicate his NG selection as part of the poll. 

Either way, a straw poll could be of interest both NG and SG, IMHO


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Charles, why not let's straw pool into SG NG and park railways..., why not. So far it looks as if Ig was somewhat over-optimistic thinking that WP&Y line is popular anywhere outside Alaska... and there one would probably need a meths fired engine not a butane one... Well, Terry, with some help from Ig and the gals you may perhaps try to gut your electric one and trash all the stuff put there by 'those who are no longer here to criticise', next get an Aster Mikado and fit all the essential ingredients into the pretty shell!! That might produce you a #73 faster and more certainly than this pool I fear, Best, Zubi


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Aster still has a few of their last NG offering in stock, so I do not believe you'll see another in the near future (read several decades) I have not talked to Hans in a while but the I have heard what Charles B. posted above. 
May have to look for a 2nd job if they bring out a challenger!!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

White Pass & Yukon route's own Baldwin mike, #73,


Terry, 

A few thoughts. Firstly, it's been done. Aster did a version with LGB many moons ago, but I assume you can find one if you want. (Doesn't seem to be well-made; see 
*http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/17/postid/96338/view/topic/Default.aspx* )

The second thought is that the WP&Y Baldwin Mikado is very similar to the EBT loco, but with 44" drivers, I believe. Shouldn't be too difficult to modify?









Note that AMS is offering the EBT Hoppers in WP&Y paint, as they bought a few for ballast service after EBT stopped operating. Real WP&Y rolling stock anyone?


My guess is that there would be the necessary buyers among us for fifty


Maybe not. I would think the EBT was a little more popular (certainly a lot more accessible for taking pictures!) Yet Accucraft have had difficulty getting enough orders for a single EBT Mikado in live steam, let alone the three versions they originally announced.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Dear Mr Thornton - Sure, _*I *_know that LGB and Aster built one a while back, I have had FOUR of them in an effort to get one that worked longer than about half a minute before seizing up, as a search of the older forums would show you [about forty posts, there, BTW, by your's truly on the subject, and others, more recent, on the very thread you quoted].

AccuCraft don't appear to make ANY models to the scale of 1/22.5, the scale of the Aster/LGB model, hence my straw poll to see how much interest there would be in asking them to actually get their finger out and do it in the correct scale to gauge ratio of Fn3. 

Graders

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Hmm, I actually like my own idea now;-)) If anyone comes across a dead shell of these poor animals please send one or more to me!! Aster should still have some spare parts from their Mikado, they might just fit in, who knows? Thinking, thinking, Zubi


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 06/09/2009 7:21 AM
Aster still has a few of their last NG offering in stock, so I do not believe you'll see another in the near future (read several decades) I have not talked to Hans in a while but the I have heard what Charles B. posted above. 
May have to look for a 2nd job if they bring out a challenger!!

Jeff, again we wee not really talking about Aster but anyway. let it be a straw poll, what you apparently do not know is that Aster makes new narrow gauge models every year for th Japanese market, mostly in 1:30, sometimes in 1:24, 22.5, or 20... and this year, they will make two such models, very different and both very surprising in a number of ways. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to provide any more information, as these models are not meant for the US or in fact anywhere outside Japan. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Dreyfuss Mercury or any other of the great steamliners would be my vote - this is part of the history of steam in the US that has so far been ignored by Aster and Accucraft. 

Robert


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert
" any other of the great steamliners would be my vote "
I also would vote for one, in particular this one:
By many standards the best 4-8-4 built


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Being SG I would not buy one but I think the T1 4-4-4-4 is kind of cute:










http://bigboy.sakura.ne.jp/t1/top.html  


Best, Zubi


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I vote for this one: 










You mainline guys just kill me







...

Regards


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I've said it before... 

A big drivered "American" (4-4-0) of the like of the "General" (of Civil War "Great Locomotive Chase" fame). 

Unfortunately, I bet I get to vote for it again and again and again since so few people seem to agree.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 06/09/2009 1:19 PM
Robert
" any other of the great steamliners would be my vote "
I also would vote for one, in particular this one:
By many standards the best 4-8-4 built











Beautiful!!!! I've lobbied hard for the N&W 611 to anyone that might have influence in the Aster world.... (BTW - who made the model in your photo - I assume its 1:32 given thesize relative to the Comley Caboose below it......)

Robert


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert
Samhongsa did it the production for Garden Railways in 1:32, electric version only. At this point we are in the planning stage for coal fired conversion.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, folks, we've beebled around the block a few times, digressed slightly into the realms of HUGE standard gauge locos of great beauty [thank you, Charles, and yes, I agree that it looks pretty spiffy, even with that funny Southern valve gear], diverted into the realms of far-yesteryear with a perceived need for a REAL American big-wheeler 4-4-0, and seem, on the way, to have forgotten the original aim of this straw poll. 

Let's cut to the point - how many of you would be interested in a live-steam Fn3 version of the White Pass mike #73, as found running today? 

Don't be shy in coming forward - this isn't like AA. Mr Luscher tells me that it would be years away at best, even if we all stood up and said we wanted one today. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, then, Not me.


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## Kurt Sykes (Feb 28, 2008)

I also don't want one, 
But I would like a live steam 2-6-6-2 based on Sierra #38. 
Kurt


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