# Diffence between a Railway and Rail Road?



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm trying to name my garden railway/rail road, and trying find out if there is a subtle difference (or not so subtle) between "railway" and "rail road"?  Are they equally interchangeable or is there a difference?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Last time someone asked, I recall the concensus was that the UK uses Railway, and the USA uses Railroad. Probably something to do with the desire not to be seen as a colony slavishly following European practice? 

Which doesn't explain why the GR magazine is Garden Railways, although the editor seems to be a fan of UK narrow gauge trains!


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## Mike Rogers (Jan 4, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_terminology


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah, thanks for the info Pete and Mike! Now I have to decide between Railroad and Rail Road


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

For me, I decided to use Railway because in my logo it looked better to nest the "Y" of the CMBY part in the "Y" of the RY part instead of trying to nest the "Y" in the "R" of RR. I did some study of the usage of the terms (before Wiki had anything at all about it!) and found that there were several U.S. RailWAYs, including a couple that were big names (C&NW and Southern) and that was good enough for me. But, yes there are more UK lines that use Railway than U.S. lines.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Canadian National is a 'Railway' so mine is a "Railway" too.  But it runs on a railroad. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


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## Boiler (Jan 2, 2008)

Last time someone asked, I recall the concensus was that the UK uses Railway, and the USA uses Railroad. Probably something to do with the desire not to be seen as a colony slavishly following European practice?
European and Colony?

Well that would be the Chemin de Fer or Ferrocarill.

As far as the US is concerned, some lines have used both, I know the DSPP started as Railway and then changed to Railroad.


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## van buren sl (Jan 4, 2008)

The Western Maryland Railway and the Baltimore and Ohio Rail Road were two major companies headquarted in the same state. Both terms were used to describe the same type of enterprise and are complerely interchangeable in everyday use. However, when you are around Norfolk and Western, Southern and Western Maryland railfans it's always tactful to use the term "Railway" or simply omit using the last word in their titles.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim

I would say use what suits you, unless of course you're modeling a specific company then you'll have to do your research, even then you'll find that the corporate name and operating names (i.e. d.b.a.) were different.

You'll find the usage mixed on both sides of the pond...

Railroad
Rail Road
Railway
Rail Way
Railways
etc. etc. etc.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Er Steve C....

*No you don't. *

Here in the UK and Commonwealth if I say "Railway" it means somewhere that is NOT in the US. if I say "Railroad" I mean somewhere that IS in the US and nowhere else. 

Only is the US are the two words used interchangeably.

regards

ralph


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## Greg Stevens (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim,

The terms are interchangable to me. Take the case of the old AT&SF. In its beginings it was the AT&SF Railroad. After bankruptcy court in the late 1890's it became the AT&SF Railway and was until the merger with the BN. The new name was the Burlington Northern Santa Fe Rwy until the name was again changed to just plain BNSF. I do think it is still refered to as Railway though. The crux of the matter is that it is up to you what you would like to use and there is no difference. It depends on which one you like and want to use.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

It was common when railroads reorganized for this or that financial reason to simply change their name from "Such-and-Such Railroad" to "Such-and-Such Railway." That way the common name stayed the same, but legally it would be a different entity. 

Later, 

K


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ralphbrades on 02/08/2008 9:41 PM
Er Steve C....

*No you don't. *

Here in the UK and Commonwealth if I say "Railway" it means somewhere that is NOT in the US. if I say "Railroad" I mean somewhere that IS in the US and nowhere else. 

Only is the US are the two words used interchangeably.

regards

ralph

Ralph

I must respectfully disagree. While that may be very well true now a days and sometime into the past, I've run across way to many pieces of documentation published in England (and maybe Wales & Scotland) in the early 1700s and later where the terms as stated above were used, and the lines that were being refered to weren't in the U.S. as a matter of fact I don't think there were any steam locomotives present on this side of the pond as yet (of domestic orign or import).


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

NO NO NO /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif   a RAILWAY deals in passenger service.    A   RAIL ROAD deals in Freight/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif  No Wait   It's the other way around I think/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

You could always call it your "Choo-choo track".


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

QUOTE: 

The word 'rail' was already in use for things made from lengths of wood and this is probably the origin of the term railway (first recorded use 1681) or rail-road (first used as a description in 1702). 

UNQUOTE 

Is this what you mean? I spend quite a lot of my time at Butterley.... 

regards 

ralph


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

A fascinating and enlightening thread on semantics.

It always appeared to me that Europe was WAY and the States ROAD but this is not so it seems.

Anyway my models are based on American practice and stock - hence I called it a railroad and my 1:1 work is on a railway. ( The P&DSR by the way Ralph)

I like the remark about Garden RAILWAYS title.  That is interesting.  Maybe  it is to differentiate it from Model Railroader.


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## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

A Wailwoad, eh Bwian?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ralphbrades on 02/09/2008 1:36 AM
QUOTE: 

The word 'rail' was already in use for things made from lengths of wood and this is probably the origin of the term railway (first recorded use 1681) or rail-road (first used as a description in 1702). 

UNQUOTE 

Is this what you mean? I spend quite a lot of my time at Butterley.... 

regards 

ralph

Ralph

To be honest, the last time this question was brought up I became very curious and spent around a month or so rummaging around all sorts of web sites in England, Wales, and Scotland etc. The main thing that I discovered is just how much more we're alike than different. Not surprising I suppose given our beginnings and all. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif

At first most of the documents I looked at were of a modern vintage, however, within many of them there were references made to much earlier documents from which the authors laid claim to as being their source of original evidence. Well, what with myself being of natural inquisitive and distrustful nature to begin with, What else could be expected, but that I would go in search of these older documents, which led to many interesting places (e.g. the British Museum, please forgive the terminology if it's incorrect). It really was amazing to find Acts of Parliament on railway, railroad matters that far back.available on-line. If I remember correctly wasn't the Surry Iron Railway the first time that parliamentary authority came into play since the line was in an urban environment as was class as a common carrier, not a purpose-built one like the ones for the collieries and chalk quarries, which mostly traversed private land.

I'm going from memory here and dealing with names that are unfamiliar, but as I remember it one of the gentlemen that I remember using the hyphenated form of rail-road was by the name Tredgold, but I believe he was referring to what I believe is rightly called 'edgeway' where the wheels are flanged as opposed to an 'L' shaped plate used on tramways. The other thing that I sort of think I remember reading was that the terms of railway and railroad originated around someplace named Shropshire. Anything further and I'll have to go back and dig up the references that I had stumbled across.originally.


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

So... Railroad, Rail-road, and Railway usage depends on when, where, and ? how, the line was used.   is the term "Right-of-Way" universal, or does its use vary also?

JimC.


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## Boiler (Jan 2, 2008)

In general usage I have never heard Railroad used in the UK, or Railway used in the US, except by me as a slip of the tongue. 

Like many other terms, technically both are valid in the US, but only one is common. 

Right of way I would translate to easement in USease. I have gone all American and made a word up!


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

In Kansas right-of-way has 2 meanings..
1-Land owned by the state ( highways ) & citys ( Streets )..  Land owned by a rail company ( tracks )..
2-Land privately owned & used by the countys ( easements )..

BulletBob


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jim C 

I suppose "right-of-way" is a common term, but the usual UK reference is "permanent way". Just like our "track gangs" or "gandy dancers" are [or were] "plate layers", a term I have seen as both one and two words. 

Now if someone would just explain [logically] the derivation of the British term "navies" [sp?] for construction workers who performed all the site work before the plate layers built the track. 

Cheers 

Dr Rivet


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2008)

maybe "navies" are misspelled "nivellators"?


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

As far as I know Dr.Rivet (and I have been corrected on a Forum before  ) is that the word comes from navigators.  The new railways were built by the same guys, or their sucessors, who built our canal and waterway  system.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

'You say tomaHto and I say tomaYto.......

color/colour
armour/armor
defence/defense
metre/meter
centre/center
mould/mold
gauge/gage
zed/zee.........

The difference is the difference - it's YOUR railway/road - call it what you like. 

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Dear Mr Best wishes Alan - You are correct .  The word orginated in the late 18th century when a rash of canal building was taking place around Britain.   Large gangs of workmen moved around the country, digging canals with picks, shovels and wheelbarrows. Canals were called "inland navigations", and so these builders came to be called "navigators", shortened by the public to "navvies" (and often used as a term of abuse).

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Tom Daly (Jan 3, 2008)

All,
"One of the first" railroads build in this country was in Quincy Ma. and used to haul Granite from the quarry in Quincy to the Neponset River in Milton, MA.
It's name was The Granite Railway.
Depending on what definition is used, the Granite Railway was the first commercial railway in this country.
That ought to start a war with the B&O folks.

Tom


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Tac [Terry] and Alan 

Thanks for the explanation on "navvies". I did not make the connection between the canal builders and railway [railroa] builders when reading UK history. The author(s) probably just assumed the derivation was understood. 

Cheers 

Jim


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## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

Not to be confused with "Chavvies" which are prevelant in tac's neck of the woods...


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

A rare and interesting tramway was the Haytor Quarries and Granite Tramway.  This was constructed in 1820 and was unusual in the the "rails" were in fact made from granite.  It dopped down 1300 ft. to a canal and the granite was loaded on ships to be sent to London in the main.  The granite was used in many of the pricipal buildings in London including London Bridge.- that is the one that is now in America (I think New Mexico?)

If you are curious look it up on the web.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Boiler on 02/09/2008 6:59 AM
In general usage I have never heard Railroad used in the UK, or Railway used in the US, except by me as a slip of the tongue. 

Like many other terms, technically both are valid in the US, but only one is common. 

The Southern Railway in the U.S., to cite just one example, bore the official name of Southern Railway (not Railroad).


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 02/08/2008 11:46 PM
NO NO NO /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif   a RAILWAY deals in passenger service.    A   RAIL ROAD deals in Freight/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif  
no Wait   It's the other way around I think/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif
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*I think you are on the right track and everyone else is wrong.. Come to think of it, Southern Pacific had it right.. 
Called   Lines.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif*


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Then there are _my _several rail lines. The original was the Copper River & Northwestern* Railway.*  After I was done with that, I proceeded to Phase II, and the Great Northern *Railway*, the Northern Pacific *Railway*,  the Canadian Pacific *Railway*., and the BNSF *Railway*.   The name I have chosen  for the combination of these railroads is the ALCANEX Consolidated _*Railways*_ System.   Then there is the upcoming Phase III narrow gauge--the Klondike Mines *Railway.*   Of course, there are always those ones which are out of step: The Alaska Railroad and the Yukon and White Pass Railroad plus Amtrak--the remaining lines that will eventually become a part of my system.  On the whole,though, I would have to conclude that "railroad" is outvoted by "railway" within my system anyway.


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you ever tried singing "I've been working on the railway..." 
It just don't sound right...  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

www.cbc.ca/news/indepth/words/quick/queries/railway.html


Found this link out there. I'm with Duncan and since the song is very "American" I can understand why now./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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