# Risk of derailment and fall from wall mounted high shelf.



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

AG wrote " You might need a slightly raised edge in case of derailments" I find this is particularly interesting because a derailment from a narrow shelf 12 or more feet high would be a terrible catastrophe. More so with the Aristo-Craft mallet that could seriously injure someone if it falls from that height. A tall ledge would make the train invisible looking from below, if a say 1 inch transparent edge would be sufficient to keep everything from falling to the floor that would be great, otherwise I'm in trouble with this design.

I know moderators don't like members to posts the same subject matter in different posts, but I hope they will see that in this case it is justified because:
1. This is not the main subject of another thread but one of many questions within the thread this one posted on the 4th page. 
2. I realized it belonged here and not in the beginners section. 
3 I have edited it out from the thread it was originally posted on to avoid confusion.

I will delete it here and post it back on the original thread if moderators advice me to do so.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

In general, unless you have turnouts mounted up high the risk of derailing is very small as long as your trains are short and your speeds are moderate. 

The biggest risks come from derailing on a turnout, from too long a train shoestringing on a too tight a curve, or from the track joiners pulling apart.

The clear plastic you mentioned would be a good idea near any turnouts. Track joining issues can be resolved with rail clamps, those plastic clips for LGB track and using the set screws with Aristo/USA track, or simply screwing the track down. Also using deep flange wheels, avoid the fine scale wheels, helps guarantee everything stays on track.


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

It appears it will be OK then because although I will have a turnout and a turnin, they will have ample radius and the trains will travel automatically at very slow speeds on them. Ref: My thread in beginners forum "Aristo-Craft mallet turn out."


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

At the turnouts, maybe a set of posts and thin cables strung between them would be prudent.

Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

TTT,

I have been following this discussion with some interest because at one time I wanted an elevated track with LGB trains around my son's bedroom (that was long ago....he's 31 now!). As I live in Southern California, my biggest concern was having an earthquake and having the entire railroad fall to the floor. After thirty seconds or so of thinking about this, I went for a more sane idea of putting the railroad OUTSIDE AND on the ground.

Are you really going to have this railroad up as high as fifteen feet? If so, you are a braver man than I! The safequards that you are planning to use........a one inch high clearance plastic piece to prevent a derailed engine and train from falling to the floor or Greg's suggestion using posts and cable to prevent the same disaster) are great ideas IF you were counting on a ZERO failure rate! That is NEVER going to be. A derailment is not IF, but is ALWAYS WHEN. Heck, NASA doesn't have a ZERO failure rate. I think you will find your frustration with an elevated railroad rising quickly when those inevitable derailments do come and you have to get out the trusty ladder and climb up to re-rail said train and locomotive. It WILL get "old" very quickly.

I remember seeing a "G" gauge layout that was built by a well known modeler, inside the entire house. It was on the walls, went through the walls and spiraled up to the second and third floors along staircases and fully scenery everywhere. This guy didn't have to worry about derailments because he "hired" caretakers and workmen to do this for him. Guy was a millionaire many times over and just enjoyed trains. I tried to do a search for it and could'nt find a link to it. I know it was in Texas somewhere. Maybe one of the other folks on MLS know about this place. 

I'm not trying to discourage your dream, but just want to point out some of the "problems" that elevated railroads WILL have. Good luck with whatever you do.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

trainstrainstrains said:


> It appears it will be OK then because although I will have a turnout and a turnin, they will have ample radius and the trains will travel automatically at very slow speeds on them. Ref: My thread in beginners forum "Aristo-Craft mallet turn out."


Derailments at switches is not necessarily due to tight radius... it is more often because a wheel will "pick the switch"... a flange will get behind the end of the switched rail and one wheel will go one way and the other will go the other and that usually will drop the car between the gauge where the curved rail starts diverging. The resultant bouncing on the ties and hitting the frog broadside will toss the car to the side and jerk the adjacent cars off with it. Sometimes it does not even matter how slow it is going if the engine has enough power to pull the wheels up over the frog/rails.


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

It would be very interesting to read the opinions of people who have trains on shelves near the ceiling, I have seen a number of these in youtube and in forums. 
THE TRANSIT SYSTEM is an Aristo-Craft product found in their 2008 catalog, here is part of the description "The Transit System is a modular display unit that attaches to the wall at a height of 6 1/2 feet. At that height, the track system will pass over door heights and still leave 1 1/2 feet to the normal ceiling height to build a railroad empire. The Transit System can also be suspended from the ceiling with the aid of 10” or 20” suspension hooks." Some people must have bought this system, it would be interesting to hear their comments. 
I feel I should test the system on the ground, if I find derailments because of switches and cannot resolve the problem on the ground I will use two tracks, one on top of the other , no switches , one for each train I want to run. If there is a strong earthquake I think I will have other priorities.


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't own the Aristocraft Transit System, but would point out that a 'standard' door opening is 6' 8" or 80" tall. The standard for framing is to add 1 3/4" to allow for the door casing. Depending on the choice of trim, the actual finished door installation is typically 83" (or ~6' 11") high. I just measured my office door, and that is exactly what it measures. My trim is relatively standard household style trim. That would place the bottom of the RR platform at ~7' off the floor.

Have you really considered that putting your layout at the height of over 7' will make it virtually impossible to see, while making any adjustments (Think: putting equipment on / off, checking turnouts, rail joints, power connections, etc.) very difficult. Having to do everything off a fairly tall step stool is really inconvenient. Just getting your large articulated locomotive up there and all the wheels on the rails will be a challenge.

As far as operation, the reality is that a derailment WILL occur at sometime, and without adequate edge containment that derailment will damage or possibly destroy any rolling stock and / or locomotives involved, as well as damaging whatever is beneath it. Adding an edge containment (even if it is some transparent plastic or posts & cables) presents another obstacle to working on the RR.

Most 'on the ceiling' layouts run relatively small locomotives (think 0-4-0 or 0-6-0) pulling similarly small ((think 4 wheel) cars, thus lessening both the problems of getting everything on the track and working, as well as cutting down the probability of catastrophic derailment. They also are typically a single loop, with no turnouts, sidings, or other complicated track work.

Just my opinion, but it seems to me that your proposed arrangement and operation creates a lot of difficulty while significantly lessening the enjoyment of your RR.

Not dissing your efforts, just trying to bring a little reality to the subject.

Happy RRing,

Jerry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

trainstrainstrains said:


> If there is a strong earthquake I think I will have other priorities.


IF you don't live in an area of frequent earthquakes, then this won't influence your decision. But those of us who DO live in these areas, know that it doesn't take much of a quake to knock books off shelves OR large trains off the track. AND your house is still standing! We don't have "other" priorities. But we would have damaged trains. THAT'S guaranteed! It's a common occurrence here.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I have had G scale around the ceiling of our living room for almost 10 years, from 2002 till 08 in our mobile home and since 08 in our house. Never had had a derailment issue, but I also have no turnouts. Just a simple loop. I even use LGB R1 curves and all sectional track. Track is 100% LGB with just thier normal rail joiners. Track is screwed down with short philips head screws holding it down. I run a mostly LGB but have had Hartland and Kalamazoo trains up there without any issues. I use all metal wheelsets to keep track cleaning to a minimum. I have run everything from my LGB Mogul to the White Pass Alco diesel and the LGB Unitah Mallet of my friends without issue. Some of the factory built suspended track systems have a small wire guard rail around each side to help keep a derailed train up on the shelf. Just take your time and make sure all track joints are clean and smooth with no kinks or rough edges that a flange can pick. If you must have a turnout, try to make it a trailing point turnout, meaning the train travels thru the frog and into the movable rails(points). Pilot trucks and flanges have a greater chance of picking the points when its a facing point turnout and the flanges can pick the point where the movable rails intersect the running rails. Mike


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Borrowed from Accucraft UK website.

‘*Caledonia’ – 2,250 actual miles and counting!*
The Accucraft ‘Caledonia’ running round the bookshelf circuit at Barter Books in Alnwick has now completed an astonishing two and a quarter thousand miles of continuous running with only light maintenance and lubrication. We have never had the chance to test a loco to such an extent before in ‘controlled’ conditions and are delighted that this electric loco seems more resilient than many other G Scale engines. David Champion reports that they are eagerly awaiting the electric ‘Lew’ and matching coaches.

http://www.accucraft.uk.com/2012/08/accucraft-august-news/



















Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

It is one thing to have derailments while in attendance because we are usually quick to react stopping the train. With an automated system, if you left the room for some time a simple derailment will eventually escalate into a major catastrophe. One possible solution is a fishing line trip wire to halt power to the rails. It would have to be just outside the train's clearance to hopefully stop things in time or as a part of an outer safety fence which would also physically help stop things if the posts were close enough. It can get complicated. 
You say 15ft up! That's a long way to fall from a ladder considering handling a mallet is a two handed operation. 

Andrew


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Andrew. Climbing a 15' (20' plus ladder with correct angle), with an engine that requires two hands, is going to require more than just climbing a ladder.

I use two hands when ever I move my Mallet.

Maybe you can build a sling, but I wouldn't risk the engine. As the bumper stickers say "S... Happens". 

Chuck

PS. My thought is that running a train, 15' in the air, automatically, is not asking for a potential problem, is demanding it. If it was my layout I'd use the least valuable rolling stock up there that I could find. My Mallet wouldn't get near it.


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

The Caledonia at Barter Books seems a very good reference, I'll try to contact them, thanks again AG, I'm still on the planning stages. You're all I'm sure right about the excessive height, I'll first try placing track at different heights to asses practicality, safety and looks. The doors of the room however are very tall, definitively over 12 feet tall, so I won't be able to have the track lower than that. The sealing is considerably higher so hanging from the ceiling is out of the question. I will only run the mallet on special occasions and under close surveillance, probably not more than twice a week and just once around. The regular train will be considerably lighter and smaller than the mallet. It will run automatically on the hour only once around. I will have to take the mallet up and down for servicing even if I have to do it with help and setting up scaffolding. There is no getting around that if I want to use it. I'm not an outdoor train enthusiast. An emergency stop on derailment is a must. I like the looks of that fence on the Barter Books track, combined with AGs idea it looks like a winner for safety and good looks. . The automatic train will run only for the time it takes to do one loop, a few minutes of each hour from 10 am to 8 pm. The rest of the time it will be besides the mallet on track but completely enclosed for safety and to keep the trains clean. It is encouraging that the two references here of actual real running tracks are both reports of very successful experiences. All advice and warnings are helpful and much appreciated.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Tall doors. Do you in a castle or a warehouse? 

Andrew


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Late 19th century large french style house. The room will be open to the public by the way. Where I live the roof is much lower. I do not want to disclose more about the place at this point. Once it is completed , if it ever is, I will post videos and photos and will invite AG and a few others to the opening.I am a bit worried that the trains might look small and distant at that height. I'll try to get some construction workers to hold the mallet at that height to see how it looks. Making the track pass on front of the 2 gigantic double doors would be possible but cumbersome and not elegant , would not do the room justice. Hope this does not blow away the entire project. AG Please look at my last post on my other thread when you can, I would appreciate your expert opinion as usual.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Your place sounds nice. Sometimes it's best to keep matters to yourself until the time is right. 
I wouldn't let a construction worker anywhere near my mallet. They drop them all the time! 
A few bachmann coaches on a temporary shelf on track with a few simple brackets will give you a good idea of what things will look like up there before you commit to the idea. You could make a little fence too. Perhaps you could have twice the space between posts as the bookshop has in the pictures so the fence is not so busy. 15ft or so scale spacing would not look out of place. The Caledonia pictured is 1:20.3 scale.

Andrew


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

I hope that inspite of the height and distance, the eye will be able to discern and appreciate the grand size of g scale trains.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Which mallet is it? Standard gauge or narrow gauge? some have more WOW than others.

Andrew


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

*Big looks not so big.*

I have taken one pair of doors of for repair, here is an ARISTO-CRAFT Pennsylvania car 1/29 scale on top. I have measured the door it is only 12 ft tall.
One can see that it is a big car only not so near unfortunately. AG I'm afraid I do not understand the Q. It is an ARISTO-CRAFT 2 8 8 2 Great Norther 1/29 scale, on the same track from Aristo-Craft and LGB as all my other G scsle trains.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

in my decades of experience

and analogous to having car insurance 

accidents happen, inexplicably, despite 'perfect' track work, no points, etc.
they happen when you are unprepared

speed is most often a contributor, but not always

and, simply when a train hits the floor, from even 3 feet, you will have damage, sometimes irreparable

things happen when you're present, and are guaranteed to happen when you are not.

I would, provide some sort of guard rail, I like the idea of stout posts, with strong double lines between them, and high enough to contain a roll over, and a reasonable bit of road shoulder, provided it doesn't kill the angle of view from below.

plexi would be even better, but is not as clear as one might think given time dust and glare

I use high guards on my n scale helix, and it has saved me many times, and the track work is pretty darn good, but, all it takes is an uncoupling, etc, and you then have a pile up.

having had one LGB loco take a nose dive from my simple indoor round and round, when I was present, due to inadequate 'road shoulder', and momentary inattentiveness, I can tell you , I was unhappy and worried about this new loco , and that I would not be able to find replacements for the broken parts-luckily I did, but had I not, I would have had a locomotive unsuitable for running.

I guess its ultimately about what risk you are willing to undertake.

otoh my local store, caboose hobbies has overheads without any of these things, and they run at modest speeds and have done so for years. I know of no derailments, but then again I don't spend my days there either.


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Following the advice and guidance, considering the many warnings on this thread and also the reports of successful similar ventures; my aim is to have a fence like the one on the photos of the Barter Books track, a switch that will stop electricity instantly activated by the slightest resistance on the fence wire as suggested by AG and a 1/2 inch edge all along to stop the wheels from crossing it. To then set all this up at ground level for testing by inducing derailments, when satisfied that the safety precautions work proceed to install everything up on the 12 1/2 or 13 feet high shelf.
Trains look and sound best when running slowly the bigger the slower.


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Uppmuntrande
Thats the swedish word for encouraging.
Looking up "G scale ceiling train", "G scale indoor suspended train" and the like, I found many videos of all type of ceiling suspended trains small and big mikados and Bachmann Shays, some slow some very fast, some with some without protection including this one that looks pretty high up.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*Bungee cord to catch potential derailements*

I strung small diameter bungee cord (allowing some amount stretch) on the most critical curved parts of my suspended under house layout. 




























-Ted


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

I see turnouts. Any serious accidents Ted? Nice!


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## Bill C. (Jan 2, 2008)

I saw this system in an ice cream shop in Ocean City, New Jersey a number of years ago. I have no idea whether it's homemade or commercial in origin.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I was in a restaurant a few months ago, which had a rectangular loop of track suspended from the ceiling. They were running a Stainz with three of the common starter set passenger cars. At one point the trailing car appeared to derail - if came uncoupled. The remainder of the train made another loop, at which point it ran into the back of the uncoupled car, forcing it off the track. It jammed into the metal wire suspending track structure, which had a triangulated through-truss type of appearance. Could easily have fallen, had it not been for the wire structure.

I'd go with something that prevents a fall. Designed right, it's also the support for the raised railway.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

trainstrainstrains said:


> I see turnouts. Any serious accidents Ted? Nice!


Not since I installed the bungee. The picture is on my 10 foot diameter 270 degree loop back that has 3 Aristo Wide Radius turnouts within the curve. The reason I installed the bungee was because I had a long train of about 45 - 50 cars that "string-lined" and one Aristo 100 ton hopper fell about 4 feet to the cement floor, busting off its foot stirrup. Surprisingly, that's all that was broken on that car. I choose to use the bungee since it is "soft" and can stretch a bit if a car or engine should derail against it but still hold.










-Ted


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Do you have a video of your trains running in youtube?


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*Ted Doskaris Videos & "Vignettes"*



trainstrainstrains said:


> Do you have a video of your trains running in youtube?


I don't have a Web site or use Youtube, but Greg E. hosts my videos on his Youtube site along with his videos. Greg puts most of vidoes in Play lists. My more recent videos are about my extended outdoor layout; however, the example below shows a train operating on my under house layout.






Aside from videos, I have more than 50 *Vignettes* (aka Articles) that are, also, hosted by Greg E. on his Web site.


-Ted


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Extraordinaire !


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## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Gary I am not familiar with the layout you reference. 

Many of the larger two-story homes in Houston, Texas do have two-story high entries or foyers. Barry Bogs in NW Houston has a scale model of the Lobato trestle across the foyer in his house. The drop from the trestle (on the second floor) down to the floor has to be at least 15 feet or more. I do not believe he has had a locomotive (mostly scratch-built by him) fall to the floor below.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete Chimney said:


> Gary I am not familiar with the layout you reference.
> 
> Many of the larger two-story homes in Houston, Texas do have two-story high entries or foyers. Barry Bogs in NW Houston has a scale model of the Lobato trestle across the foyer in his house. The drop from the trestle (on the second floor) down to the floor has to be at least 15 feet or more. I do not believe he has had a locomotive (mostly scratch-built by him) fall to the floor below.


Pete,

That's the guy I was trying to think of! There were a number of videos available of his layout a few years ago. Quite a home.

Here's the Youtube link showing his Lobato Trestle. 




And another:


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

There are a lot of options. My overhead layout is now over 10 years old and happily there has never been any damage.

Out of concern for a heavy loco falling on my head as I sleep I put telephone poles spaced to catch anything from falling on my bed below:










I even have a couple of lighted train stations:










And 4 sidings (controlled by LGB electric switches and controls) supporting everything from LGB Moguls with 6 LGB Coaches to LGB Mikados, LGB F7 ABBBBA, MTH Hudson etc.:



















I built the layout to be able to flip between Analog Track Power (with or without a VCS Sleep Timer), LGB's's MTS, MTH's DCS or Aristo Revolutions. 

The layout is supported on Closet Maid wire shelving and the sidings are supported by tubing screwed to the floor joists above the ceiling. 

It won't win any awards for appearance but I often go to sleep with a train running on the timer and if I wake up a push of a button starts another 15 minute cycle.

My suggestions are the same as for my crawl space layout:

1. Build it stronger than you think you will need
2. Build it perfectly flat
3. Use locomotives, rolling stock, track, switches etc. that you have tested elsewhere to be sure they are not prone to derailments
4. Avoid trains, track and turnouts that are at or near to pushing the manufacturer's published recommendations

In the end, if you are not comfortable with anything you are doing (financially, physically, perceived risk involved) - don't do it. 

More often than not, if you really want to do something, regardless of what anyone else says or thinks (including me) you can almost always find a way to do it and have a lot of fun with it.

Have fun,

Jerry


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Gary Armitstead said:


> Pete,
> 
> That's the guy I was trying to think of! There were a number of videos available of his layout a few years ago. Quite a home.
> 
> ...


That is an impressive setup. My wife would never let me do that to the house. Let alone all those engines, etc. very nice setup.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you should really Google the topic. Ton of YouTube videos about indoor ceiling and/or elevated trains, equipment and installation. Web sites as well. Spur of the moment I threw out the search key words, "model trains ceiling hangers" Link to the search results;

https://www.google.com/search?q=model+train+ceiling+hangers&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=787&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=xY8jVZH2Ocy8sAWgp4HQBw&ved=0CAUQ_AUoAA&dpr=1

Some of the links will be to other forums that are completely dedicated to ceiling layouts and installations.

*VERY IMPORTANT:*
Select "Images" from the top list of options (immediately under the search term bar. This link is to the Images web page;

https://www.google.com/search?q=ceiling+trains+mounting+hardware&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=787&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Mo4jVcKXOobPsAWkvYLoBA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg&dpr=1#tbm=isch&q=model+train+ceiling+hangers

At the botttom of the page alternative search term suggests were; (Obviously some are better than others  But it's surprising the ideas you get from looking at things we might never consider, like, ceiling plant hangers.)

Searches related to model train ceiling hangers
ceiling hangers for classrooms
grid ceiling hangers
drop ceiling hangers
suspended ceiling hangers
ceiling picture hangers
ceiling hangers hooks
ceiling hangers for plants
ceiling hangers for kayaks

-------------------------------------

I have not read all the posts to your thread, so this might be redundant. 

With high or very high ceilings you really need to install hangers to bring the trains down to about 8' - if you want people to see the trains and appreciate them. The farther away something is the less detail can be seen. And the shorter the person makes it even worse - children? IMHO 

Maybe this too has been covered... The trains will create dust of their own independent of the normal kind of household dust, not to mention a great place to collect dust. The train type dust can come from two primary sources; plastic wheel wear and lubrication (engine or car wheels. If you doubt this, lay a track on a carpet and run a train on it for say, an hour. (Anyone who has put the Christmas train on the carpet for the holidays and then taken it up can verify.) Two points; 1.) the debri will float down to the floor and any horizontal surface. 2.) The trains and train shelf have to be accessible for regular cleaning, notwithstanding whenever train service/maintenance is required. The second reason for hanging the train shelf at about 8'. If you intend to multi-layer the trains, keep the same things in mind. 


Ok, my two cents, worth every dime. 


All the best with your adventure, don't forget to have fun..


This is an example of ceiling train mounting hardware that I once used. It is a molded resin material, in standard straight and cured sections (various radius) that snaps together. The name I cannot remember, and do not know if they are still in business. It was great stuff, very clean lines and most of all a complete system all figured out. It might give you an example or model of how to approach the hardware design for your installation. You will find this photo on the image page (link above.)


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Loco-Boose Hobbies' Sky-Trestle Suspended Railway Systems

http://www.locoboose.com/

----------------------------------
Look up for the Trains on Pinterest 
Model trains around the ceiling | See more about model train, train tracks and ... Training Mobiles, Toys Training, Offices Training, Training Track, Indoor Training.

https://www.pinterest.com/mackcanady/look-up-for-the-trains/

------------------------


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Great.


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## Semper Fi (Dec 28, 2014)

My overhead railway has clear strips of plastic on both sides and I don't believe any derailment could come through them. the strips are mounted about 1 1/2 inches above the base and are only2 inches high. Not a problem seeing the train run. They are attached to the vertical hangers. 

SF


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Time passes, It was 2015 when all this wise risk of derailment advice was given. Soon after that I bacame terribly frustrated by the news I received informing me that the case for the eviction of my tenants was not over and could be indefinitely prolonged. My dream of a public tea saloon with overhanging G scale trains, including my Aristocraft mallet, began to sadly fade. 
I concentrated on my little N scale over the ceiling beams layout which is practically finished, within it's tinny dimensions it grew much larger then intended, 11 steam trains all remote DCC sound controlled with best quality decoders , a **** of a lot of work and investment. After a six years eviction trail finally we reached an agreement and my premises in all likelihood will be vacated next month. I decided to celebrate this by buying one more, I think the last G scale steam loco, I hoped this would bring my attention back to G which indeed it has. I had not bought or touched anything G since 2015. I am waiting for the main gear to arrive to upgrade my beautiful new to me, Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0. which I decided to acquire on advice recently received from members of this forum on another thread.
I must still do a lot of converting and renovating of the premises before I can start installing the G in the new tea place. Hopefully by October I'll be ready to start .


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

Sorry to hear that your are going through that. I have seen some Tenant cases turn out nastier than some divorce cases. With a lot of reputation bashing on both sides.
With regard the thread,, i really like the Fence post and rope idea.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I have never(knock on wood) had a derailment on our overhead loop and I use LGB R1 curves. But then I also keep train lengths short and speeds slow. Both to prevent derailments and to keep noise levels down. I do not have any guards on the curves to catch a derailed train either. Now if I was running high doller engines(mine are older LGB, Kalamazoo and Lionel), I would probably make a nice wood railing around the layout to help. Mike


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## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

To all those who have encouraged me, Andrew Garath , Chuck, Mike, OldNood and many more.....
I recuperated the premises that had been rented for over 60 years, I have not researched the matter so I don't know if it was my great grandfatger or my granfather who originally let it. Six years of litigation and a month ago it was over. The area that I recuperated is very large indeed and includes the part that will finaly be the tea place with trains as described in this ancient thread. There has been construction work on the entire area for over a month and in two weeks the main work should be done and I can begin two install floors furniture and lastly the track that I have dreamt of. The first photo is from the present state of the future tea place, the second is of a twin premises that will be a gallieterie, ( serving french crepes from buck wheat) I include it because it gives an Idea of what the tea place will look like.


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

*Commercial overhead LGB*

In a previous life I maintained the overhead LGB layout in Chicago Meat Packers Restaurant underneath Glasgow Central Main Line railway station.

From memory in many many years of running it never had a train departing the track and landing on the floor or a customer. 

The track was sitting on galvanised metal cable trays suspended from the ceiling with rods fixed onto the galvanised metal cable trays. From memory there was no side safety rails installed. NOR can I remember if the track was actually fixed to the cable trays for sure it it was, it was very infrequently.

The BIG ISSUE was track wear and loco wheel wear when a 'customer' at a Christmas or birthday or other party would manage to get a balloon up there sitting on the track and the loco would hit it. Sadly sometimes the loco would not knock the balloon out of the way but push it along the track until it jammed in the next two track/cable tray vertical supports. The poor wee loco would sit there for ages wearing out the rails before this was noticed by the CMP staff..... The trains were LGB starter sets, set to run quite slowly but pulling two or three coaches.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I once had a plastic wheel caboose in HO (Athearn) build up so much crud on the wheels that the flanges became "invisible". It didn't fall far, just into a small canyon, but I can imagine the same thing happening in Large Scale. Caboose Hobbies used to have layouts in the store that ran every day, all day. I recall seeing some N scale locomotives that had the flanges worn completely thin, to the point they were as sharp as an X-Acto knife. At that altitude, I would use plastic more like 6 inches high, that can support the impact of a full-speed derailment...

Robert


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

This is one reason LGB suits overhead operation so well, the extra deep flanges to deal with running in a garden enviroment where small twigs, leaves and such can land on the rails while running. This keeps engines and rolling stock on the rails short of something major taking place to cause a derailment. If the layout was in a commerical enviroment, liablity issues to me dictate some kind of low railing to protect anyone below in case of a derailment. This is just from a safety stand point. At home, I do not have anything and have never, knock on wood, had a derailment. I run 100% LGB track and mostly LGB trains. But I have also run Lionel Large Scale(older track powered ones), Kalamazoo and Aristocraft on my overhead line with zero issues. LGB does the best with being able to consistantly run slowly and quietly for hours on end. Mike


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