# Astro-Turf for Indoor Layout - Bear With Me Here!!



## Schroeders (Sep 29, 2009)

Hello all,

I am a general lurker and wanted to say hello and ask a few questions. I have recently finished our attic to house my ever growing train collection (and have all my collection in one place) which included moving my garden stuff to the indoors. This was partially because of the winter blues, but also due to the ever growing destruction created by my favorite neighbors, being the elk family, whom I cannot legally fence out (even around my layout) in our community. SO, in the best of both worlds, I designed a new layout as shown (just laid out for sizing) that is approx 23x8, features three loops, a nice yard, and the LGB turntable, etc. Missing from this pic will be an elevated rack-rail portion. 

Some pics: 




















Back to the subject line, I was at Home Depot and spotted this stuff called "Turf Evolutions" that looks amazingly like real grass, and costs about $2.88+ a sq ft, has a knap up to 1.75" and has various grass designs. 
My initial plan was to lay some neutral gray or tan Berber styled indoor / outdoor carpeting for reference. 

Question being, has anyone ever used this stuff as intended or for a layout? Honestly, do you all think it will look cheesy or different in a "bringing the yard to the attic" kinda way? This layout will be operator focused, meaning realism is not the intent, although I'd like a nice presentation to set-off the Pola buildings and such..

Thoughts or ideas??

Thanks all!

Jeff


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't know about the Turf Evolutions. On another site, there was a pic of a layout that used an old floor mat to simulate a wheat field, though. 

Your layout looks bigger than 8 x 23. Did you mean 18 x 23? From the pics, it certainly appears to have potential, though you might have some 
'reach' issues.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have used green outdoor carpeting (don't know which brand or other specifics) from Home Depot for my indoor and outdoor layouts over 15 years now. Generally I just pick the color and thickness that appeals to me and go with it.

Sometimes I refer to my layouts as the Plastic, Plywood and Carpet Railway (Plastic trains running on Plywood covered with green outdoor Carpeting).

While you are going up into your attic my main layout is below my house in the crawl space suspended on 40+ sheets of plywood hung 4' below the ceiling joists and then outdoors etc.











































I first used green outdoor carpeting when I built my O Gauge Layout - after seeing a friend's O gauge layout on regular indoor carpet.

The carpeting significantly lowers the noise level of the trains running on the tracks which in O Gauge can be quite loud.












Outdoors I have to replace the carpeting every few years but indoors it seems to last forever (over 15 years with no sign of deterioration).

A couple of thoughts about indoor running:

1. you can use dimmers on the lights and simulate running at any time of day or night (building lights really show up nicely).











2. An inexpensive sound system can (in a darkened room) make it sound like you are running a real railroad.

Its all up to you - do whatever you like. Personally I love the green outdoor carpeting.

I have never regretted it for a minute but then I never wanted a "Garden" railroad.

Jerry


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## Schroeders (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks for the tips and pics guys, much appreciated! Yup, it's indeed 8' across!! 

Thanks again, and I'll keep you posted.. 

Jeff


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Yup, it's indeed 8' across!! 


Your talking about the size of the table, not the size of the room? 

Whats the 'other layout' in the bottom corner of the first pic? (I thought it tied into the other line).


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## AppleYankee (Jan 3, 2008)

My indoor layout is J shaped, roughly 11 X 28 ft build with Sievers benchwork modules (30 in X 48 in). I finally settled on *Woodland Scenic Mats *as my "ground cover". The addition of *"O"* scale cork roadbed under my LGB track added a nice contrast to the layout.

















Jan 


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## Schroeders (Sep 29, 2009)

The other layout is an HO 9x5 modular (unfinished), and at the far end (the "L") is a tinplate layout. The G portion is just 8' wide by 23' long. As for reach issues, I have one of those long extending foot stools that allows to reach pretty far over. The table height is approx 51" (I'm 6' 4"), which adds to the issue a bit, but it works purdy darn good.. The room is about 700' sq ft total..

I really like the woodland mat on your layout Jan, and with their rolls going up to 50"x100", it is tempting to go ahead with. 

Jerry, your setup is sweet, how large is the outdoor footprint?? 

Thanks again guys, really appreciate it.. 

Jeff


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Posted By Schroeders on 20 Mar 2012 07:25 PM 

Jerry, your setup is sweet, how large is the outdoor footprint?? 

Thanks again guys, really appreciate it.. 

Jeff 


Hi Jeff,

The photo I had posted was an old one from before I replaced the track with stainless steel and double mainlined it. 

That outside layout is hard to measure in that east to west it is 68 feet and north to south it is 44 feet but it does not fill much of that space (it is on a steep hill and parallels our driveway). 

There is about 600 feet of track to it feeding into the garage layout (lower left) and also into the crawl space layout (lower center).










The above is a pretty good representation of the current configuration.

Jerry


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

That Woodland Scenics mat combined with the cork roadbed looks alot better than just the outdoor grass carpet IMO. Using the cork/mat also allows you to screw down and secure the track from moving (the carpet is too springy and almost impossible to screw down the track thru). 

No other advice to offer as my indoor layout track is screwed right into the plywood and will be ballasted later down the line.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I was about to ask the same question. I've finally decided on my "layout" and it's going to be modular, with a 16 foot long Timesaver on one side, an Inglenook arrangement on the other, connected by two 180 degree curves to make a giant oval. 

I'm planning on three sections on the sides, 8' long by 2' wide each, and a sort of half-octogon arrangement for the ends. I'm drawing up plans now, but two sections will make the Timesaver as the Timesaver, and inserting a section between them will creat a 10' long passing siding to fit into the layout. Best of both worlds without wasting switches. 

The Woodland Scenics mats seem like a spectacular idea! Not sure, G scale cork roadbed? Does anybody make that? And what would make a good ballast. Keep in mind, this entire layout could end up being left outside for a day or two, although the plan is for it to be stored in the garage when not in use. But a 36' by 12' layout does take some room to set up... 

Robert


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Back when I used cork I bought it in bulk rolls, and cut it to shape under the track, I stopped using it as I found it had no significant impact reducing sound and just complicated the track planning process, I dont run my trains fast so sound is not that big an issue.


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Posted By vsmith on 21 Mar 2012 08:43 AM 
That Woodland Scenics mat combined with the cork roadbed looks alot better than just the outdoor grass carpet IMO. Using the cork/mat also allows you to screw down and secure the track from moving (the carpet is too springy and almost impossible to screw down the track thru). 

No other advice to offer as my indoor layout track is screwed right into the plywood and will be ballasted later down the line. 
I'm not trying to convince anyone to do anything. As an observation none of my indoor track is screwed down unless and until in a rare instance I have a problem with it moving. In most cases the track settles into the outdoor carpeting (I use a thin carpeting with no noticeable spring - perhaps thick carpet could be a problem). I have never noticed a tendency for indoor track to move on the carpeting. Outside is different where the carpet reacts to the weather. Wind does demand that the carpeting be glued down and that the track should be (IMHO) screwed down but with enough "give" to allow for expansion and contraction.

It really depends on what appeals to someone. I think someone would be happy with whatever appeals to them but I admit that I had not thought of the possibility of thick carpeting causing track to shift. That sounds logical.

Carpeting is, well, carpeting. It comes in all sizes, compositions and thicknesses. I can only speak for what I have used and I don't know for sure what it is - just that it came from Home Depot.

Noise is somewhat a similar subject in that plastic wheels tend to be quiet on the rails. LGB metal wheels are expensive and very quiet while Bachmann wheels are a lot less expensive but also much louder. Other metal wheels fall in various levels of sound. By comparison O Gauge trains on Lionel track can be VERY loud. I use sound board on the floor (under the carpet) and on the walls of the O Gauge layout room to control the sound of the O Gauge trains. I don't use any sound proofing on the G Gauge layouts but I can always tell when the trains are running on Bachmann wheels.

Jerry


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Hi Jeff,

I realize that your topic is about your indoor layout but with the reference to the use of carpeting I hope you don't mind if I add a few comments regarding outdoor carpeting on outdoor layouts.

1. If carpeting is used outdoors in the sun it will probably need to be glued down or parts will be lifted up by the wind causing damage to buildings. As it ages it will probably have to be replaced eventually and if glued down that can be a real PITA to get the old carpeting up (unless there is a trick I don't know about). I often use staples to tack the carpet down but that has its own issues.

2. Outdoor carpeting usually has a rubber undercoating which tends to hold moisture and this can prematurely damage any wood such as decking under it. This can be warping, delaminating etc. Carpet and wood manufacturers do not warranty against this.

3. My experiences with treated plywood under outdoor carpeting have been very unsatisfactory and I would not recommend it (read #2 again).

That said, I still love green outdoor carpeting for my layouts (outdoors as well as indoors) and this morning I was reminded why. 

1. Last week I used a leaf blower to get the last of fall's leaves off the layout by the house. 

2. A few days ago I had to do it again as I had forgotten to do the deck above the layout first so when I blew the leaves off the top deck they settled right on the layout below it.

3. Yesterday I had to do it all over again because instead of leaves, the layout was now covered with the green thingies from the oak trees.

4. Today I returned to clean the layout (mainly the carpeting) with a pressure washer. The carpeting had become so crudded up it just looked nasty and I suspected the carpet might come apart or that the pressure washer would not work (it has been a year or two since I last ran trains on this layout as I had been building and running trains on the caboose layout). Even the screened operating area was really nasty dirty from dirt blowing onto it over the past two summers.

After a few hours with the pressure washer I am amazed once again how well the layout and the operating area cleaned up.

I have never had a layout down in the dirt and I have no idea how anyone would get rid of all the leaves, twigs, nuts, green thingies and everything else that nature dumps on an outdoor layout. I can't imagine them using a leaf blower and pressure washer on their ballasted track.

For me, cleaning track has a LOT less to do with brass vs stainless steel vs battery power than it has to do with clearing and cleaning the track of all the crud that nature is determined to dump on an outdoor layout. 

I guess some folks enjoy gardening so for them perhaps it is fun.

The older I get the happier I am that my layouts are above the ground rather than on it and laying on carpet rather than on dirt or ballast - but I will be the first to admit that I LOVE the beauty of the layouts that are true "Garden Railroads."

Jerry


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