# Mallet



## tbar (Jan 26, 2009)

Lots of hipe 'bout a new and improved Aristo-Craft 2882 Mallet coming 'round...I bet it'll be " later" than "sooner"


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I haven't seen anything about this--what sort of improvements?

The Aristo Mallet is a very nicely detailed model. the shortcomings stem from the drive units, which are prone to slipping wheels. The only fix I've heard of was a different kind of locktite on the wheels, not really a fix I don't think. I have two Mikado drives (same drive), one of which I cut down to a consol. Both had to go back for repairs. When it's working right it's an excellent drive. Despite the issues I'd buy a mallet if it wasn't too big for my layout


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I like mine a lot. Yes, I've learned to fix loose wheels.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Also have not heard anything about so called up grades. Matter of fact no word for even another run. I have two of them and they do run great. Did fix a driver problem on the first one but other than that they are one fine running loco. Later RJD


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

I have two and love em. they run really nice on small 10 foot diameter curves.

R.J., there has been an anouncement about another run of Pacifics and Mallets and they will have the PnP in the tender like the C16. There was no mention of the Mikado.................Jim


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I will be interested on how Aristo does the interconnect, they need more wires between the loco and the tender. 

Most people think the socket in the tender is good because the sound unit typically is in there, but I think it's a mistake, because all the high current wiring is in the loco, especially with the poor or non-existent tender pickups from Aristo. 

I'd rather run the power pickup wires a short distance up to the boiler, than the length of the boiler, through a connector and then into the tender. 

You also have to run the outputs of a decoder/receiver/controller for the motors from the tender back through the same path. If the socket is in the boiler, it's only a few inches to the motor.

I think the "new deal" adds unnecessary resistance, power loss, and more places to be damaged in case of a short. 

Regards, Greg


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## tbar (Jan 26, 2009)

Jim....a club member of mine informed me the Mikado may be history


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Lewis told me personally he was disappointed at the sales of the mallet and mikado. He blamed it on their requiring too broad of a curve. 

Aristo will sell something as long as it sells. The mikado shares the boiler with the Pacific and the drive mechanism with the mallet. 

I would not look for the Mikado going away... it would be foolish on Lewis' part. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree--the Mikado and the Pacific are virtually identical, but with different drive units. And the mallet and the Consolidation both share the same drive as the Mikado. All the development costs for the Mikado are done. Hard to see an argument for stopping production

Lewis argued that the Consol was needed/would sell because most people has smaller curves. I think he's probably right, but for some reason that argument annoys people. I cut my Mikado down to a Consolidation and it just looks better on my layout. I've been thinking for a while about buying an Aristo Pacific Drive and cutting it down to fit in a Lionel Atlantic 


If aristo would just fix a couple issues with the Mikado drive--power pickup, the slipping wheels--it'd be a first-rate unit. The Pacific drive has some of the same issues--IMHO they should have keyed the axle. 



The mallet remains very tempting


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

About the only thing that might kill an existing locomotive would be the need to re-engineer it due to an existing part no longer being available or the molds getting damaged and having to be retooled. There is just too much money invested in the engineering and tooling to end production of an item that is still selling even if it's in low quanties. 

Randy


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

A question on the slipping drivers. 

If one of these locomotives were purchased and the drivers are all tight to begin with, is it feasable to put a small drop of loc-tite on the end of the axle where it might soak in and help keep the drive wheel from working it's way loose? 

Randy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's a few things that are pretty cool about the Aristo design. 

They have a "modular" gearbox, and all that it takes is a hollow box with a few metal strips for power and slots for the axles and hex shafts between the gearboxes and you can make anything. 

I disagreed with Lewis, 8 foot curves with a mallet or mikado is fine. Virtually no one builds starting with anything tighter nowadays. (Yes Victor, I know you do). 

His problems were deeper, the Miikado is a poor model of the prototype, and had/has lots of issues with drivers slipping. 

The same poor assembly techniques were used on the mallet, so both of these locos got a black eye. 

Properly assembled, the Aristo design is clever, and can be made to work reliably. 

Out of the box, they have many serious errors in assembly, and it's a long list. 

Unfortunately, we will most likely have to "work over" the consolidation until Aristo starts enforcing the quality in assembly that would make a problematic system into a great one. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim: I think down the road they will also do another run of the Mike. Hopefully they have listen to the complaints on the current runs and make the modes necessary to make them a good runner. Times will tell. Yea they did announce that all future runs of the steam locos would have the plug and play socket in the tenders. I'm not quite sure this is the way to go but we shall see. Later RJD


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

That mallet has a lack of detail to me...and the wheels fall off!! 

What's with those big huge sucky headlights on the Mikado & Pacific? 

I'll stick with my Hudson thank you!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It runs just fine on 8 foot curves--so does the mikado. It just looks bad doing it. That's not a criticism of the model, just an argument that it's too big fr most layouts--or at least for mine


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I operate mine on 8 and 10 ft curves and no problems and really not to bad of hang over. Just what ever turns your bippy. later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I love my Mallet. Runs gracefully on 8 and 10 ft curves. Yes, the wheels turn on their axles, and once all the right front drivers fell off. Took about an hour to repair that. "Maybe I should check these screws more often." I *think* I have re mounted and properly loctited all 16 drivers.

The strangest thing I've ever seen with it was a couple weeks ago at the Milwaukee Domes. I was hauling a longish train, maybe 30 cars or so. After several hours, the train slowed to a stop. "Oops, forgot to keep track of the battery." So I changed the battery, and the train ran forward a couple ft and stopped. "What? I put in a dead battery?"

Nope. All 16 drivers were running, but the train wasn't going anywhere. I could just slide the whole works back and forth with it running. Like *no* grip! Wondered if it had a rod binding due to slipped wheel, but no, running smooth as silk. All's I can guess is conditions inside the dome and maybe a little smoke fluid on the track combining to make things slippery. It was cold outside and condensation was dripping from the dome.

Ran several hours Saturday and Sunday at High Wheel in Palatine this weekend. Engine ran smooth as silk doing everything I asked it to do all weekend. I did some shifting and pulled 13 cars very slowly. 

It's a *real* crowd pleaser.


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Casey Jones on 07 Mar 2010 08:37 PM 
That mallet has a lack of detail to me...and the wheels fall off!! 

What's with those big huge sucky headlights on the Mikado & Pacific? 

I'll stick with my Hudson thank you! [/b] 




Casey,[/b]
I have 62 Aristo-Craft engines, including 5 Pacific's, 4 Mikado's, and 2 Mallets. I have never had a wheel fall off, get out of sink, and have never lost a gear box on any. All have many hours on them, with no down time. [/b]
As far as the headlights on the Pacific and Mikado, For around $2,000.00, I'll make you a Pacific with a smaller headlight, when you concider that Hudson cost 5 times as much as a Pacific. Not a very good comparison. Now I don't want to complain about that $2,000.00 Hudson, I do have two of them, but when I got my first one, you would think for a $2,000.00 engine all the wiring inside shouldn't burn up the first time out, but mine did. Of corse the first thing they said was, what did you do wrong, I said I put it on the track and turned on the transfomer, what are you supposed to do? So as you can see there are problem with every product you buy today. I had alot of problem's with my USA engines. One GP7 caught on fire, all my gears split in all my F-3's. I finally sold all my USA engines except my Hudsons. I guess I have just had better luck with my Aristo engines, so that is what I run. I know that there are others that think the opposite. I just go with what works for me. Thanks Rex[/b]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK Casey, on this and another thread you made it clear you have a Hudson and you think it's great. We get it. 

The Aristo locos, with all of their faults, should not be compared to a really expensive loco head to head. 

You could spend $500 adding detail to your Mallet and still be at half the price of the Hudson. 

You need to make some realistic comparisons, and people will respect what you have to say. 

The Hudson is a great loco, but it's wiring and the installation of the smoke unit have been problematic too. There are people who have purchased the $3,000 big boy and have it melt down it's wiring. 

There is no "perfect" loco. 

This thread is about the Aristo and whether it is going to be new and improved / what changes are going to occur. 

Why not start your own thread on your Hudson? 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Probably does not even own an AC loco. His comments must be based on hear say. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Casey,[/b]
I have 62 Aristo-Craft engines, including 5 Pacific's, 4 Mikado's, and 2 Mallets. I have never had a wheel fall off, get out of sink, and have never lost a gear box on any. All have many hours on them, with no down time. [/b]
[/b]



Rex, do you do anything to them? Do you take them apart and adjust them? I generally think Aristo offers good value for the money--I wish the quality control was higher, but as you say all manufacturers have problems. I have a Pacific drive which has been trouble free, but I have two mikado drives and both slipped wheels. Do you do anything special to them?

I've been very tempted to break them down and fix the various issues, including lapping the axles to get a better fit and then grinding the flanges down to get the back to back spacing right. Haven't done it yet.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it'd be kindof cool to find some photos of a specific loco, then bash one into it. I have some photos of the real Southern 4019 Mallet. Larry has always told me the classification lights don't belong up on top like that, but they're up there on 4019, though the mount is a little different. Maybe someday I'll try modeling that mount.

I also find 4019 once had the headlight mounted on the smokebox door. In other photos it's on the porch like the Aristo model. 

Larry's Hudson is a beautiful piece of equipment. He likes his Mallet a lot too. Mine has gotten a little beat up and really needs a weekend of repairs and details. But then, Larry has altered even his Hudson. He's changed the smoke unit, added sound and reworked some of the wiring.

Of course, I love the walchert valvegear on my Bachmann Annie. *All *those parts move. 

If you like it, buy it. If you don't, don't criticize it, or people who do like it.

No, I don't know why the rods keep falling off Cozad's Mallet. If he let me at it for an hour or so, I'd loctite all those little screws.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm friends with Rex, but I have a tough time believing that nothing has ever gone wrong on his steamers if they have never been "touched". Maybe they have not been run a lot, but at the moment, my mallet and mikado are down for slipped wheels, and the Northern Rex made for me from 2 Pacifics had the same problem. I lapped the axles on the Northern and it worked perfectly after that, and I did not use ANY loctite... 

I did shim the axles to get the back to back right, but to my chagrin, the flanges were so thick that the gauge was too wide. I'm going to buy a lathe and fix the wheels to have stainless steel tires with proper wheel and flange contours. 

Regards, Greg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, I just noticed your avatar. Too funny!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the snow man better. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The snow man was to kind of poke fun at the new "ghost" 

That picture is from Union station in Los Angeles, in 1948.... a slight overrun... email from Randy 

Gotta change the avatar every so often! 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 08 Mar 2010 09:36 PM 
Posted By Casey Jones on 07 Mar 2010 08:37 PM 
That mallet has a lack of detail to me...and the wheels fall off!! 

What's with those big huge sucky headlights on the Mikado & Pacific? 

I'll stick with my Hudson thank you! [/b] 




Casey,[/b]
I have 62 Aristo-Craft engines, including 5 Pacific's, 4 Mikado's, and 2 Mallets. I have never had a wheel fall off, get out of sink, and have never lost a gear box on any. All have many hours on them, with no down time. [/b]
As far as the headlights on the Pacific and Mikado, For around $2,000.00, I'll make you a Pacific with a smaller headlight, when you concider that Hudson cost 5 times as much as a Pacific. Not a very good comparison. Now I don't want to complain about that $2,000.00 Hudson, I do have two of them, but when I got my first one, you would think for a $2,000.00 engine all the wiring inside shouldn't burn up the first time out, but mine did. Of corse the first thing they said was, what did you do wrong, I said I put it on the track and turned on the transfomer, what are you supposed to do? So as you can see there are problem with every product you buy today. I had alot of problem's with my USA engines. One GP7 caught on fire, all my gears split in all my F-3's. I finally sold all my USA engines except my Hudsons. I guess I have just had better luck with my Aristo engines, so that is what I run. I know that there are others that think the opposite. I just go with what works for me. Thanks Rex[/b]


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## ORD23 (Jan 2, 2010)

My Mallet runs like a champ. Did not know it had any issues. You guys are scaring me. My Mallet is my favorite engine (and yes I do have a Hudson), and wouldn't trade it for anything in the world (okay an Accucraft K would change my mind). Guess I can count my lucky stars that I have not had any problems yet.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Loco is like any piece of machinery. Mallet no different. Always preform a little PM once in a while and they run fine. Check the drivers every so often to make sure all driver screws tight. Mine have have given me 4 years of good use so far. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

4019 has become my "signature" loco. I run it lots and take it everywhere.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

My mallet has run well. It is one of the best locomotives I own, in terms of reliability and in terms of sheer fun to watch operate. However, I did have one gear box failure. Happened when plowing snow in December. I may have deformed the gear when using the locomotive to pull a 36 car freight up a 4-5% grade last October. In any event, the deformed gear would work OK so long as the wheels could slide from side to side. In the snow, I got a tremendous build up between the inside of the driver and the gearbox. Heat turned the snow in to ice and when I tried to run after stopping for pancakes, I overloaded the REVO and could not get the loco running again. I removed the gearbox and sent it to aristo, who promptly replaced it. I have only run the locomotive once since returning it to service and everything seems to work fine. 

For a $450 locomotive, I don't think it gets much better than the aristo mallet. Shawn Fields made and sent me a number plate for the loco in early January 2009. A nice pick me up when I was out of work. The one I've got has the 6 wheel vandy tender. My one complaint, and it is not really a big deal, is the unpainted drivers and side rods. However, it takes me about 10 minutes to take care of that with a paint brush and some Tamiaka paint. 

My Mikado uses the same gearbox and I have used (abused) it quite a bit over the years. The biggest mistake I made with that locomotive was to remove the drive wheels for painting. When I replaced the wheels, I didn't use loctite and soon I had slipped drivers. Replaced with red loctite and everything works fine. I have to remind myself that this locomotive is a toy and not to overload her. 15 cars is her max on my railroad. By contrast, my LGB mikado is limited to about 12-14 cars. Had that gearbox fail once, too. Again, we have nasty grades here. What can I say? I am a mechanical engineer, not a civil engineer.

Rex, I have talked to more than a few people who had that same experience with their USA hudsons, at least the first run, anyway. Still, it is a beautiful locomotive and I hope to have one someday. Last time I saw it happen was at the 08 ECLSTS. Poor guy had a beautiful train to pull and his Hudson's wiring shorted, again.

Greg, I have been thinking about adding stainless tires to my aristo mikado and mallet. I think 1/8" thickness would probably do it. But, the real question would be how close in tolerance are those wheels? To do it right, I'd plan to have an interference fit between the tire and the wheel of about -3 microns. Heat the tire, cool the wheel, slide it on, and let natural expansion keep them tight. But, probably I'd end up having to turn all the wheels so that they have the exact same diameter. 

Would I buy either again? The Mallet, no queestion. The mikado? I think I'd rather have a Pacific. Already have two mikes, and have wanted to bash an Aristo pacific in to a New Haven class I-4 Pacific for about 10 years now.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark, I'm currently working on a project for replacement wheels for Aristo diesels with Ted Doskaris (who started the effort). The next thing I want to do is exactly what you are saying... 

Yes, turn all wheels down, and press on a stainless steel tire, and besides fixing the continuity/plating/pickup problems, it's also an opportunity to do a correct flange thickness, depth, correct backspacing, fillet, and tread taper. 

Going to get a Sherline lathe to try it, since the wheels have to be turned as well as tires fabricated. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 

This is kind of off topic, but have you thought about using nickel silver? I wonder if the cost of the NS would offset the machining of the stainless.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

don't think it would hold up as well. later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

When we were investigating, we found that NS was more expensive than the 302 stainless. NS is often cheaper because it is easier to machine. 

In our case, the machinery is high grade equipment often used to make aircraft parts, so the machining cost was no different between the materials. 

When I do the tires for the steamers, I will consider NS because I will be using my own small hobby lathe. 

Regards, Greg


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, 
Will your project wheels be for sale to the masses?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The quantities we had the wheels made were about 480 at a time. It does not take many locos to use these up!

I surely do not want to be in the position of selling and distributing. I believe we can set up others to purchase wheels directly from the manufacturer, but in those quantities.

The best thing would be to get together with 3 or 4 friends to make a bulk purchase, and keep the cost down. Can't reveal the final cost yet (because don't know!) but so far, it compares very favorably with cost of Aristo replacement wheels.

I'm actually sitting here running my E8 with all new wheels, and I'm very pleased.

I think we should start a new thread on this subject. We have been holding off making all the information public until we feel comfortable that we have done it right.

Let's not further derail the thread! 


Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 Mar 2010 06:24 PM 
The quantities we had the wheels made were about 480 at a time. It does not take many locos to use these up!

I surely do not want to be in the position of selling and distributing. I believe we can set up others to purchase wheels directly from the manufacturer, but in those quantities.

The best thing would be to get together with 3 or 4 friends to make a bulk purchase, and keep the cost down. Can't reveal the final cost yet (because don't know!) but so far, it compares very favorably with cost of Aristo replacement wheels.

I'm actually sitting here running my E8 with all new wheels, and I'm very pleased.

I think we should start a new thread on this subject. We have been holding off making all the information public until we feel comfortable that we have done it right.

Let's not further derail the thread! 


Regards, Greg 







Agreed, We the non Kool aiders know how to fix the Head Kool Aider issues and we may share, other wise maybe the kool aiders should ask the King of the kool aiders to help them because usually we the non kool aiders are not worthy unless we come up with a fix that the Polkyman can never do............. We the Non Kool aiders Rule........ STAY TUNED SOON FOR A REPORT ON THE new ss WHEELS, That will as usual sovlve the Polkymans issues once again..... Thank God for us people that know how to fix Aristocrap..........


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't want to take a lot of credit, this effort was started by Ted Doskaris, to solve the plating issue on the wheels. When we decided to go further, we decided to address many other aspects of the wheels. 

Regards, Greg


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