# Reporting problems with mfg./retailers -- a suggestion:



## Wendell Hanks (Jan 2, 2008)

To be most helpful to our readers with any listing of problems with manufacturers and/or retailers, My suggestion is to indicate contact was either attempted or made with the source of the problem. Include the content of that contact and then, if needed, ask for advice. 

This eliminates: 

1 - A series of MLS readers making suggestions that are speculative since no contact was made first with the mfg. or dealer and the results then reported; 

2 - A victim story rather than a seeking of advice on the next course of action based on an effort to resolve the problem. 

Wendell


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I can see your point , but .... 


It's often quite difficult to contact retailers in person. Wholesaletrains, for ex. has a very elaborate website which spells out their return policy in great detail. But they don't do biz on the weekends, and their contact numbers are hard to find and they often don't answer. Arming oneself with knowledge before calling is often a very good idea 

For instance, if I had known--and I could have done some research and found out--about USA Trains and cracked axles, I'd not have bought one. But by the same token, knowing that this has been a problem for what--8 years? significantly changes my approach to any dispute I might have with either the manuf. or the retailer. And I would want that knowledge BEFORE I contacted the retailer or manufacturer, no? 


It also seems worth it to me to share an experience as it happens--for example, by posting my story at another forum I was able to get a real, working contact number for a manufacturer, a number which was not on either the website or the printed info in the package. 

And then if we keep these things quiet, they never improve. ALL the large scale manufacturers seem to have significant quality control issues. Some of them have excellent customer service, but they wouldn't need it if the quality was better. It won't change if customers don't share their complaints


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

My suggestion is review the product, period.. If you have a problem with either the vendor or manufacturer, take care of it by e-mail or phone call.. Dirty laundry does not need to be aired here.. 

BulletBob


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

This has already been addressed by the site owner. Please see *Rule 1.5* of the *Forum Rules and Guidelines*.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

It would be nice if the _product reviews_ forum was actually used for PRODUCT REVIEWS.  I am seeing far too many posts in here that really belong somewhere else. Complaints about service or even defects do not seem to belong here.  You all _know _what a true review of a product is. Can we not limit this part of the forum to such?  I don't see the point of going into this forum to read about complaints about products or companies.  Also, a company is NOT a product.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Since I seem to be the offending party, I can say I posted it in "product reviews" because it was defective out of the box--my review was "it doesn't work." I'm not sure where else to post something like that. My post was mostly in the manner of "what do I do now" and "has this happened to anyone else." I got a lot of useful info from posting that way, although apparently I irritated a number of people for which I'm genuinely sorry. In the future I'll post such questions/comments somehwere else, somewhere very far from here.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I can see this thread is going to go round and round already and I hate to see anyone feeling attacked. 

I understand the points on both sides here. 

Lownote: I for one totally understand where you are coming from here, you have the built-up expectation to get your new engine or whatever and it comes out as a piece of junk. The frustration at first can send you through the roof. We all feel your pain with this and I have been there done that! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif There have been few products that I have purchased from any of the mfgs that have NOT had a problem out of the box. Having gone through this so many times already it's part of the process already for me. I agree that generally the first step is to contact the retailer and depending on just how frustrated you are, either force them to pick it up or send it back yourself to them. In some cases you will be directed to work with the mfg directly. I agree quality control should have caught that but it's clear the Chinese have and are getting away with murder passing on poorly built product and passing it to the American companies and it's consumers. It's up to the mfg to deal with the Chinese companies directly but I 1) personally question just how much leverage and pull they really have to affect any real changes and 2) think that we are nearing the realistic limits of what we are getting for the money we pay for in size of detail of product. 

From the retailer's perspective, I think the profit margins are so thin that they just don't have the resources to test every engine without raising prices which would affect their competitiveness with the other big retailers. 

So in the end it's a vicious circle we're in and think the only thing that can be done is to discuss them publicly to the the problems posted and do our best to get each situation resolved to our satisfaction. One key issue we are faced with is if we wouldn't accept any product that can have known issues, the number of available items to purchase would be incredibly limited. So ultimately, because most have a strong enough want, most are rolling the dice. I fall into the later... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif   

On the opposition, I think it's the level of the frustration expressed that is causing the issue coupled with the fact some of these said companies provide advertising dollars to support this site. You are not the first to feel or speak this strongly. I have done so before, especially early on before I modified my expectations from expecting something to be 'right' to now more or less expecting problems. But that said, I don't blame you at all. 

Please don't let this leave a bad taste in your mouth about these forums, USA T or the hobby. In the end you ALWAYS have the ultimate way to speak your mind and that is with your wallet. 

Good luck in getting this resolved and feel free to email offline if you'd like to chat any. 


Raymond


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## N.S. Rob (Jan 2, 2008)

Ditto Raymond. You are absolutely right. I had a problem and aired it out on this site and was attacked by a lot of people, even the company I bought it from. All over a stupid lifting eye that was missing. I thought I was doing people a favor by letting them know how I was treated. In the end someone told me how to make a new lifting eye and fix the problem myself. I've learned to just cancel my credit card and send the thing back if I am not happy with a product.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Just so you don't have to go looking for it: 

1.5 - While honest reviews of products and services are welcomed, the forums are not designed to be a place to resolve conflicts between manufacturers/vendors and individual hobbyists. Please address your concerns directly with the other party, or seek out a 3rd party such as the Better Business Bureau to help you resolve your disagreement.


I'm not going to rehash all the reasons here because they have been discussed ad nauseum. Just like the dispute with vendors, further discussions will resolve nothing. People will feel the way they feel and no amount of text in a forum will change it. Please respect my decision to keep such topic off the forums. 

Thank you for your understanding.


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