# LSOL.com review of the Bachmann K-27



## Josef Rieder (Jan 18, 2008)

I found this review on youtube and found it informative and at sometimes, funny. Notice when they run the engine on rollers they don't run it in reverse. I'm guessing their sample bound. Also it is said that the "Locomotive is expertly packed to avoid damage.) Wishfull thinking. Heres the link: 

*[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaXeiO_QAI*[/url] 


Enjoy


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Josef Rieder on 02/12/2008 9:21 PM
I found this review on youtube and found it informative and at sometimes, funny. Notice when they run the engine on rollers they don't run it in reverse. I'm guessing their sample bound. Also it is said that the "Locomotive is expertly packed to avoid damage.) Wishfull thinking. Heres the link: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXaXeiO_QAI
 
Enjoy


Activating link


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, a lot of people have gotten damaged ones, but that's par for the course on most locos. I do like the fact that Lysol sanitized the demo by only running forwards at 200 mph. A good idea. 

Seriously, it has turned out to be a great starting point after you replace the counterweights, move the wires that don't allow the 3rd driver to move up and down, bypass the transistors and put in lamps, etc. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't think I would like to own one that bounced up and down like the sample in the video.


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

* Only 200 MPH!?! Looked more like "Warp Factor 10" to me!* [] Tom


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony,

I agree.  That's what I thought, too.  It also looked to me like the valve gearing / side rods were binding at the end of the high speed run. 

Mark


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

I thought I was watching a Lionel locomotive.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Tom Lapointe on 02/13/2008 12:37 AM
*Only 200 MPH!?! Looked more like "Warp Factor 10" to me!* 


*Scott to bridge!!  The engines are on full reverse... and they're **BUCKLING!!!  BRIDGE... !!!

*Seems to me like the script was written for an idiot - "Numerous features like a bell, whistle, and pop valve"??? 







 And why the heck would they review an undec??


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

That video and all the comments on all the sites, the counterweights, wiring, all that gooble de goop, you've all been posting about, has really made me "NOT" want to spend that much money for something that has to be re-invented all over again after you get it and then that's not even speaking about the price paid!!!! I'll leave all you Bachmann K27 fans to yourselfs and go play with my lgb and aristocraft and usa engines!!!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

After reading all the comments about this engine I think I will wait for the "new improved" version.  I had one of their 'connies' and the counter weights kept coming loose on it and the motor came loose from the gearbox among other things.  I lost a screw off the drive gear cover on the bottom and tried to get a replacement from Bachman.  All I got was an idiot on the other end of the phone.  It seems they have not learned a thing.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm really enjoying my K-27. I've been wanting once since Accucraft came out with theirs but couldn't afford it. The Bachmann version has amazing details even the Accucraft doesn't have at 4 times the cost. I for one enjoy the real K-27 suspension, at higher speeds it gives it the slight waddle that gave it the mudhen nickname. But it doesn't hop up and down as in the video link above , probably because it wasn't under load, at least mine doesn't. Other than the counterweight issue, which Bachmann is willing to replace including shipping both ways, everything else is really customizing. If you don't like something replace it. I've replaced the couplers with Kadees, but what loco and rolling stock don't folks do that on anyway? I've replaced the headlight, tender light and classification lights because I thought the ones provided were too yellow or too orange, but that is my opinion (I thought the Accucraft Shay was too bright). I've added DCC and Phoenix sound, because that is what I like. If Bachmann had provided DCC, then it would be a waste for those that want Battery or just DC. If they had provided sound and it wasn't Phoenix then it would have been a waste for me. Later versions may have all this for those that don't like to tinker or customize. The socket has made installation of these items a little easier, it was far from plug-n-play but I've installed DCC and sound in my Accucraft Shay and this was definitely easier. I'm using the optical chuff and it was easier than installing the magnets I did on my Shay.


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## Guest (Feb 13, 2008)

Posted By Tom Lapointe on 02/13/2008 12:37 AM
* Only 200 MPH!?! Looked more like "Warp Factor 10" to me!* [" />] Tom

I think they were showing the speed needed to acheive best results for the opto sensor to operate correctly?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I saw the video, thought it was a smart way to get members. Marketing tool. 
Long live diesels


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 02/13/2008 7:02 PM
I saw the video, thought it was a smart way to get members. Marketing tool. 
Long live diesels




Yeah, everyone needs those "extra 23 pages" of K material only avail to members...nah, just look up Dave Goodson, he'll tell you all you need to know about the K..................../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif

Marty see u in a few days!

cale


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually Cale, at higher speeds, people have reported that the chuff circuit "fails". It does not really fail, but wiring problems between the chuff circuit and the particular sound board cause this. 

Bob Grosh has quite a handle on this, and I'm awaiting his publishing the information. Basically, it's difficult to get the K electrical ground to work with the electrical ground of an add-on card, and with the diodes and resistors in the chuff circuit, it basically does not react quickly at higher speeds, and the chuff sort of "goes away". 

Bob is working on a solution, but it's pretty tricky. The previously reported transistor mod actually is one way to connect the ground of the K to the ground of the sound board to minimize this problem. 

Regards, Greg


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2008)

yeah, Greg...that was kinda "Tounge in Cheek" if you will/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 02/13/2008 7:02 PM
Long live diesels


/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe they should have cut the video off at the 15 second mark.   
I liked the opening shots, and the prototypical look of the slots for the wheels...  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll stick with my Accucraft versions, thanks.

I like to buy a model that I don't have to finish off at my own expense.  I'm dreading the results of selling the thing over here in yUK, where shipping back to Bachmann UK could cost a zillion $$$$ - always supposing that they can fix it..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif

BTW - it's also over $1200 here, at best.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

From a purely comparative standpoint, the fact that the wheels on the B'mann K turn that fast at full voltage would lead me to believe they've geared it incorrectly. I have no problems with locos going "a little" faster than their prototype's maximum speed, but that's ridiculous. On the other hand, it makes running the loco on batteries easier, as you only need 12 volts to get to a comfortable operating speed. 

Later, 

K


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm...nice thing about my RCS r/c battery w/Sierra equipped K-Rex, it doesn't kick in the warp drive when on full but it _does_ work correctly all the way from dead stop to prototypically running all out! Sound and chuff work perfectly (probably due to the fact that Dave did his usual incredible job making the K-Rex  the model it _could and should _have been.)/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/satisfied.gif


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Since folks keep talking about prototypical speeds, what is the prototypical speed of a K-27?


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

The locomotive is geared 14.5 to 1. 
High. 
But, on 14.4v, it's perfect with a train. 

IF you haven't moved your eccentrics to lean forward of the axle wne the rods are down, Johnson Bar position can cause binding, jumping, lifting of #3 driver, all sorts of stuff. 

Just take off the rod bolt, pull the eccentric off, rotate one flat, and re-install. 
Tighten the bolt and you're set. 

Oh, and TAC........I'd rather have this one that opens with 4 screws (not counting smokebox supports), doesn't need a new motor, and I don't have to make and install windows. 
Oh, and parallel side cab doors are nice. 
No "fat boiler syndrome".


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Ah, the difference is that I already HAVE my Accucraft K27s and don't have to pay out around $1400 to get a plastic one that needs a tear-down and rebuild to get it operating without binding or the rods falling off, or any of the multifarious other problems that you have worked so hard to fix..

We have no Curmudgeon over here...../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## mhutson (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim,
The K-27's were good for 20 m.p.h. at best.

Cheers,
Matt Hutson
M.P. 294 on the Baldwin Branch


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I found a reference by Blackstone models that says the old timers say they could get up to 45mph or more on the straightaways: 
k-27


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 02/14/2008 12:12 PM
From a purely comparative standpoint, the fact that the wheels on the B'mann K turn that fast at full voltage would lead me to believe they've geared it incorrectly. I have no problems with locos going "a little" faster than their prototype's maximum speed, but that's ridiculous...

Later, 

K

I agree, Kevin. Maybe it runs smoothly at low speed (_obviously_ not a concern in the video), but I would imagine it would be better if it were geared lower.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have an Accucraft K4. It has a planetary reduction gearbox on the end of the motor, then the power goes to the middle driver where there is a gearbox for further reduction. My understanding is that the Bachmann K does not have this gearbox on the end of the motor, and there is only so much "gearing down" you can do at the axle. 

So, I certainly cannot fault the Bachmann for not adding this reduction gearing on the end of the motor, since it costs money. But, it does underscore the old adage, you get what you pay for. Funny though, the additional gearbox is not that expensive, from what I am told. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

As I understand it, when Bachmann were designing the gearbox the advice they were given was to make the gear ratio about 30:1 with the 19 volt Pittman motor chosen.
They were also advised to use a double start worm.
What has happened is that Bachmann have made the ratio 29:1 but then added the double start worm, effectively bringing the ration back to the 14.5:1 that it currently is.
This may or may not be easy to fix.
If the double start worm is held onto the motor shaft by a grub screw it might be as simple as changing to a single start worm and replacing the worm gear to suit the single start worm.  The flywheel should take care of any "hunting" on down grades.
If the worm is sweated onto the shaft it may be simpler to replace the motor, worm and worm gear.

Either way would be much less difficult, and therefore less costly, than regearing the gearbox and replacing the gear on the axle.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the insight Tony, sounds like they had it right, then someone thought it would be nice to have the loco "freewheel" with the double lead worm, and forgot to consider that they cut the gear ratio in half by doing so. Whoops. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony,

I don't understand why it'd be necessary or desirable to mechanically slow down the locomotive by regearing or remotoring.  Wouldn't it just be easier to run it slower by applying less power?  Unless it has something to do with the sound board needing minimum voltages, then it would make sense.  

Just curious.

Mark


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

You ever drive an automobile with a stick shift? 

Try taking off in high gear. 

See what amount of throttle you need to even try to move. 

You multiply available torque with lower ratios (higher numeric value).


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Gearing, and wiring problems aside, it is a nice looking model. Too bad its not a k28.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To add to what TOC said, now try to go up a hill so steep you can barely make it. Tell me if your motor runs hotter in this situation?

Basically that's the reason for gear ratios, to most effiiently use the available power. Unfortunately, electric motors in trains do not work like steam engines, i.e. failrly constant torque regardless of speed.

Regards, Greg


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

The main thing about the gear ratio for me is low speed control, and more even speed up and down grades. I would have preferred a little better control at lower speeds than the K-27 offers. Why you say? Well, not a huge deal but I prefer very slow starts, I think they look more real. The K-27 takes off a bit too fast, my LGB Mike and Accucraft Shay have excellent low speed control, especially the Shay, geared really low for a top speed of probably 15 smph.


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Rule one when using any camera near a large scale steam train...
*MAKE SURE THE BELL IS STRAIGHT ! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif*
Or model British prototypes instead /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif

Oh my god !

Faster than a speeding locomotive !
Able to leap small buildings in a single bound !
It's, It's, *SUPER K
*


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