# What to do for trolley track



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

All,

A forum search returned no results for the searches I thought were reasonable, so here's the question:

Background: I'm now at the point where my main street and associated buildings are nearing completion. Before I put down the street (concrete with a black grout top to mimic asphalt) I need figure out how to lay the track for my trolley/streetcar.

Generally, streetcar tracks are embedded in the street and tie-less. I have several lengths of brass rail to use for this, but am wondering how to keep them at the correct spacing and how to make them appear (or actually _be_) embedded in the street. 

Question: Has anyone put down trolley track in this manner (making it look prototypical by embedding it in the surface of a "street") or want to offer proposed solutions?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Is your layout indoors or outdoors? Any forthcoming suggestions, might work in one environment and not the other. If you are outside, I'd worry about water getting down between the rails and your concrete and freezing.

If it was my trolly track, I'd keep the ties and bring your concrete up to the outside edges of the track and then find something to fill in the space between the rails, styrene sheets cut to size? 

Chuck


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

chuck n said:


> Is your layout indoors or outdoors? Any forthcoming suggestions, might work in one environment and not the other. If you are outside, I'd worry about water getting down between the rails and your concrete and freezing.
> 
> If it was my trolly track, I'd keep the ties and bring your concrete up to the outside edges of the track and then find something to fill in the space between the rails, styrene sheets cut to size?
> 
> Chuck


Good point, Chuck--this is an outdoor layout.

The idea of keeping the ties and fulling the center with flat styrene sheet occurred to me, but I was thinking that it would hard to match the street color. When I was stationed in Europe in the 80s, I seem to recall some streets where the streetcar portion was concrete or stone embedded in the asphalt of the road, so trying to match that look might be another option (I could even use some of the sheet cobble they sell)

Anyone else?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Is this indoor or outdoor, its a big difference, as you can get away much simpler inside and its more complicated outside because of the weather aspect.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

You relied at the same time I posted. Outside I would keep the track whole, but maybe remove some intermittent ties so concrete will fill in easier, and build up the surface around it using concrete. Drainage from the rail slots will be the biggest issue. I would use compacted gravel base under the track and pour concrete w/ reinforcing mesh on top. Making the furrow for the flanges would be the toughest part, I would think about how to do that first before anything, brass strips might be used with concrete in between. I would make sure the flange slot was open at the bottom so water could drain to the gravel under. Now I don't have to deal with freezing, ice/ snow will complicate things a lot.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

vsmith said:


> Drainage from the rail slots will be the biggest issue <snip> Making the furrow for the flanges would be the toughest part, I would think about how to do that first before anything, brass strips might be used with concrete in between.


Drainage will definitely be the issue that decides longevity here in Kansas. I was hoping that if I poured right up to the outside of the rails that side wouldn't be a big problem. On the inside, I thought maybe the rail slots could be wider at the top than bottom, so that if water froze and expanded in there, it would be able to move up (kind of like when you dig a pond) 

To create the flangeways (that might not be the right term) I was thinking about using blue painters tape to tape basswood strips (beveled, as above) to the inside of the rails, then remove the tape and wood after the concrete is poured and mostly set.

This might not be feasible outside, but I'm hoping


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you used something like styrene thick enough to fill the void between the ties and the rail top, you could attach some HO rail to the edges of the styrene with small screws. The rail head might give the appearance of a flange way.

Chuck


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## Peter Eaton (Mar 11, 2015)

Split/Jaw makes great walkon crossings and he probably is able to make what you are looking for. Pete


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

IIRC, I used Masons' Mix and put it right up to the track and over the ties making sure that the rail sticks up a bit and that the flangeways were clear.

In an outdoor environment, these areas are a PITA! Stuff/ballast gets down in the flangeway and is hard to remove requiring a small screwdriver to flick it out. And of course, it could happen anytime during a session.

Also, I think that the Mason's Mix is pushing in on the outsides of the rail causing the rail to go under gauge and I've actually taken a flat file to the inside edge of the railhead in these areas to widen it back out.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Long time ago, if you call 15 years, I was obsessed with modeling trams and trolleys; better know in the US as Interurbans or street cars. UK was a lot more into modeling trams than US in Interurbans. Never got past the dreaming part as everything had to be scratch built; the only motorized bogies and pretty much everything else had to come from the UK. I wanted to model the Pacific Electric, bright red those with Port Hole windows. Oh yeah, the trams in the UK were modeled in 7mm scale, track gauge I don't remember. 

Track with Flange-way; 
As I remember, and it's long ago, where track would be laid in paving Brits made rail with a flange way by combining two rails at right angles; the head of one rail set into the web of the other using two different size rails. The larger rail is upright and the smaller one its head to web. For example, Code 200 head - to - Code 250 web. . 

The size of the smaller code rail is chosen so none of it's head is no more than flush with the edge of the larger code rail the head. the key thing is that the smaller rail not interfere with the wheels riding on the larger rail. The smaller code rail will move up-n-down within the web space so the smaller rial has to be secured aat the low point. 

If you try fitting two rails together in this way I think you'll get how this works fairly quickly. 

How do you secure the smaller code rail, well that's thee part I do not remember. Soldering at intervals is fairly obvious. The width of the pavement material such as plastic, wood, etc. Glue it with epoxy?

On to fill material, 
You might try grout or mortar (same thing really) vary the sand type and content to suit. Outside you might look into recycled plastic, plastic wood, that's UV stabilized. Look on the internet s they do make it in every conceivable size. Possibly plastic trim boards / molding is available in a size to fit. 

Consider that when trams, trolleys and interurbans were the norm the pavement would be two different types. Outside the tracks would be solid, asphalt or concrete, etc., and between the rails brick or stones. This was for ease of maintenance, remove the bricks and replace them when done rather than tear up the street. So maybe that gives you some additional options in laying your track.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Thanks for all the ideas so far. Keep 'em coming.

So here's another idea...

I could get 1/4" rubber on a roll. Put down track, build base up flush with the tops of the ties, then put rubber mat down outside the track, touching the rails for "street" and cut a thin strip for between the rails as the center. Just a bit narrower than 45mm to allow for "flangeways" It would be easy to take up for maintenance, would flex if there's freezing, and should look like street. If sprayed with UV inhibitor, it might last outdoors. Maybe...

More thoughts?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

There's a whole article in the latest Garden Railways Magazine about a trolley line, discussing the issues of finding/making track.


> On to fill material,
> You might try grout or mortar (same thing really) vary the sand type and content to suit.


My pal in FL has ballasted his track with some flexible material that would probably help your outdoor trolley. He uses "polymeric sand".
http://stonehengebpl.com/polysweep-technicseal-polymeric-sand/
Interesting stuff - resists sun/rain/hurricanes and can be removed with a trowel to re-align track. [Ask me how I know.]


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I would suggest looking for a pebble surface sheet of plastic. Paint the backside black and dab on stone colors on the face. Allow for flange ways and cut to fit. This will help on curves... Give you that European cobblestone look. Also found in some cities.
John


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Tar paper is sold with different colored stones imbedded, and you could use roofing shingles.
These are made for the outdoors and many colors/tints of grey are available.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Dan Pierce said:


> Tar paper is sold with different colored stones imbedded, and you could use roofing shingles.
> These are made for the outdoors and many colors/tints of grey are available.


Thanks Dan.

I thought about roofing material, but in all the pictures I've seen of it used for roads, it doesn't lay flat. I'm also not overly fond of the very visible seams I've seen. I could buy a wide roll to avoid most seams, but getting it to sit flat without the waves in it would be the trick. I guess if I had a concrete base, I could adhere it with tar--that works for roofs, anyway. 

For just roads, I'm using a concrete base with black exterior grout for the asphalt. It has a very road-like appearance and should be fairly low maintenance. But I think that won't work for something with embedded tracks, if only because it would be destroyed by ice expansion in a year or two.

Probably this is one of those cases where there's no easy, low-maintenance, attractive way to accomplish it--and I'll just have to pick two.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Just another thought for you to consider, I was roaming Floor Décor the other day for some small scaled rubble tile that could be used for scale "stone" work. The place is thousands of square feet of tile for bathrooms, house flooring, kitchens, etc. If you have access to a tile cutter, you might want to looking into some of the flat finished grey tiles and cut them to place between the rails. With some small tabs glued to the back, they would stay put between the ties. Then you could lift them out for maintenance work. Not sure what or how to cut them for tight curves, but it might at least help with the straight sections.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

riderdan said:


> Thanks Dan.
> 
> I thought about roofing material, but in all the pictures I've seen of it used for roads, it doesn't lay flat. I'm also not overly fond of the very visible seams I've seen. I could buy a wide roll to avoid most seams, but getting it to sit flat without the waves in it would be the trick. I guess if I had a concrete base, I could adhere it with tar--that works for roofs, anyway.
> 
> ...


Mine lays flat without waves on dirt, rock, and pavers, and is very convincing. You can walk on it on pavers, dirt, or sand, but not on rock as it will come though the material.

I also cut pieces to go between the rails. But even here, ballast can get trapped and foul the rail so while this works at a few small crossings, I wouldn't suggest this for large areas.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

toddalin said:


> Mine lays flat without waves on dirt, rock, and pavers, and is very convincing. You can walk on it on pavers, dirt, or sand, but not on rock as it will come though the material.
> 
> I also cut pieces to go between the rails. But even here, ballast can get trapped and foul the rail so while this works at a few small crossings, I wouldn't suggest this for large areas.


Todd, do you know offhand what weight of paper you used? Perhaps heavier paper is the trick. At least one place on the 'net I saw pictures of "road" made that way that looked like 15' waves at sea. As I recall, it was made with smaller sections, too--so there was a visible seam where the two "waves" met about every 18"

Keeping crud out of the flangeways will be a trick. I was thinking that perhaps John's idea of textured sheet between the rails might help. If I keep the ties and put the textured sheet on top, there'd be a fairly large area under the sheet, between the ties, for grit to migrate to that might help keep it clear of the rails.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I think I use this stuff:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/GAF-39-1...embrane-Roll-for-Low-Slopes-3688920/100031809


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## Cooke (Aug 26, 2012)

I saw this in another forum. This Australian doesn't seem to have any problem with street trackage or live overhead. But maybe because it's down under, the rocks, water and debris just fall out of the flange way. Must also help keep the trolley pole on the overhead wire.


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