# Windows 10 - Anyone using it yet? Any problems? NT/OT



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have just started downloading/upgrading to Windows 10.

For various reasons I have never liked Windows Vista, 7, 8 or 8.1 but it looks like they are going to become history soon.

Is this about trains? Since everyone here on MLS is on some sort of computer, using some sort of operating system and some sort of browser, I think it is.

Just a few questions:

1. Have you started using it yet? If so, what do you like or dislike about it?

2. If not, are you planning to upgrade later? If not (unless you are using OS/iOS or something else that cannot be upgraded) is there a particular reason you might like to share with others?

3. Anything else you would like to say about Windows 10 (good or bad)?

I plan to upgrade any computers that can be upgraded since it appears to be free and I don't like what I have (7 & 8.1). My older XP Pro laptops probably cannot be upgraded which is OK since Microsoft stopped upgrading the anti-virus on them so I took them off the internet - just using them for train stuff.

I still mostly use Apple's OS & iOS but I've given up on abandoning Windows - there are just too many things that keep pushing me back to it.

Thanks,

Jerry

PS. if any moderators or administrators have any ideas or suggestions regarding how Windows 10 might impact MLS their opinions are also invited.I am not anticipating any problems but my computer skills ended with XP Pro and Office 2003.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I played with the Windows 10 Technical Preview to see if some programs that I wrote many (many!) years ago in Visual Basic would still work in 10 (they do, so I am pleased with that! )

I have not upgraded my main PC (laptop) to 10 and probably will NOT do so. It is on its last legs now (I have replaced the keyboard already and the display is showing some problems with streaks and blotches) so I plan to get a new laptop PC with 10 already installed, but will probably wait until late this fall to do that (personal Christmas present! )

For the most part Win 10 is better than 8 or 8.1 and roughly equivalent to 7, but with some things missing that I like and some things that used to be standard that are now extra cost (Media Player for one, it is cheap but no longer supplied "with" the OS).

The main thing I do not like about 10 was the propensity to store EVERYTHING in the "Cloud".  To get stuff stored locally was always an extra step and I was not able to get local storage of anything to be the default state. I 'hate' the "Cloud" . I want to be able to utterly destroy my data by whacking it with a hammer  if I so take leave of my senses and with everything in the "Cloud"  I have no access to control where it is or what happens to it. Yes, it is probably secure, at least from fire and storm and random "acts of God", but I do not believe it is secure from idiots with evil intent. 

I was also displeased about another thing... the password I used on the new (Win 10) laptop was different than the one I used on my MSN e-mail account and different than the one I used on my usual main PC, but once the new Win 10 PC accessed the web, Microsoft changed (or forced me to change) all three passwords to be the same one. Logging into the Win 10 PC automatically logged me into my MSN mail account and I do NOT want that to happen... I found no way to subvert it except to create a totally different e-mail account for 'MY personal E-MAIL' and let the one that the PCs know about do their log-in and then I just won't use that e-mail account for anything at all, like it just does not exist to me. 

Another thing that has me worried is that I put the Technical Preview on a Windows 8.0 laptop I had. I used it just long enough to know that my programs ran on it and then I got busy with other things. I used it last about April 10th, then about May 1st I decided to turn it back on and try something else. 

It would not boot up! Got a dialog box that said my license had expired.  I checked on-line and found words to the effect that if I did not let it do an automatic update between the 15th and the 30th that it would disable itself.

Well, it sure did, but it also totally disabled the hardDrive! 

I can get the PC to boot to other things (USB or DVD) but when I access the HardDrive I get the notice that my license has expired and then the PC is dead in the water again.  I cannot put the original OS back on the drive, I cannot reformat it (I took it out of the laptop and connected it as a 2nd drive on another system)... when I make any access to it at all, I get the same notice.

I now have a door stop with no way to recover it to be anything otherwise useful.

I am glad I didn't' have any files on it that I needed to keep.

I am no dummy when it comes to computers... I've been a computer programmer for 45 years... I have written microcode, assembly language for mainframe computer, mini-computers and microprocessors, and many different high level languages from COBOL to BASIC to Fortran to ATLAS and more... I have created operating systems from scratch... I know how the hardware works...

But I cannot get past this Windows 10 re-write of the disk configuration sector. I am locked out if it... period  . I may need to get it near a HUGE electro magnet with a rapidly fluctuating field and bulk erase the whole drive. Maybe then I can get to the drive to reformat it.

What worries me is what Microsoft might have up their sleeve when everybody has Windows 10 on their PCs for free and then Microsoft can hold their data hostage and demand "access fees", whether the data is local or in the "Cloud"... I don't trust them at all. I have read of others expressing this same fear and Microsoft has responded that they will not do such a thing... I still don't trust them, any more than I trust Google or Yahoo to not read my e-mail or sell my personal information to the highest bidder or keep it safe from those idiots with evil intent.

I think we (the world) is stuck with Windows 10 and we will just have to either knuckle under or rebel "en-masse" and use some other OS (personally I have tried MAC and Ubuntu UNIX and I don't think they will ever gain an upper hand). What that "other OS" might possibly be, I have no idea; but that will be the only thing that will stop the juggernaut known as Microsoft Windows 10.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Semper

Thanks for the comments. If we go with 10 do we have to use the cloud? I don't want anything to do with the cloud. 

Chuck


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Semper,

I appreciate your well thought out comments.

I was told by a MS person that the next generation (11?) will be subscription only (like Office 365). 

Before an upgrade will be downloaded your system will be checked for meeting the minimum requirements. I was told Windows 10 installation was going to be improved to make it more compatible with computers with less free disk space.

*If you want the Windows 10 update, run Windows Update. If your PC is compatible you should get the option to upgrade to Windows 10.*

I don't want to drift too far away from whether to download 10 or not to download 10 or the topic might get controversial.

I think the topic is relevant and a lot of MLSers are probably thinking about it.

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

You have until July 29, 2016 to do the "free" upgrade to Win 10. There were rumors that even pirated copies of Windows would in some circumstances be allowed to be upgraded for free, but I have not heard much about that for some time. Windows 8 supposedly must be updated to 8.1 before it will upgrade to 10.

There will not be a Windows 11... ever... if you believe the present marketing blather. Windows 10 will just be continuously updated with new features and fixes, but those might be charged for in the coming years.

They are metering out the upgrades to cut down on server overload. So if you signed up for it, and have not received notice of it being available to you, just wait, it will come, eventually.

I know that Windows 10 is better than Win 8 or 8.1, but I am not sure if it is better than 7... in the same way that 7 was better than "Vista" and in some ways better AND worse than XP. I hear tell that 10 will boot faster and takes less disk space (maybe that is because many of the free utilities are no longer a part of the package?  )


And just in case anyone is wondering what happened to Windows 9... there never was one! It is my understanding that MS felt there were too many programs already in use that had to test for which version of Windows it was running on so it could configure itself correctly for it. And too many of the programmers took a shortcut to do the test... instead of testing for "Windows 95" and "Windows 98" and "Windows 98 SE", they just tested for the first 9 characters and if it was "Windows 9", regardless of what followed the "9", then the program configured itself for that era of Windows (they were all mostly similar internally and usually did not need to be distinguished from each other, but did need to be distinguished from "3", "3.1", etc.). If MS had named the new version as "Windows 9" all those programs would have thought they were running "95" or "98" and maybe not have worked right.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

One more note:

Do not trust "E-MAILS" offering the Windows 10 update! As I understand it, the invitation will come via Windows Update or the icon that was installed in the System Tray (right side of the task bar).

See:

http://www.maximumpc.com/fake-windows-10-update-email-spotted-with-ransomware/

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/laptops/news/dont-trust-the-windows-10-free-update-email-warns-cisco-722637


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

So far Windows 10 is installed on 2 PC's (I am using it now). The other PC's now have it reserved.

*I am down to one PC with Windows 8.1 including every available update that still does not have the Windows 10 Update icon in the taskbar and I have not figured out how to fix that yet.*

My main motivation to get Windows 10 is to get away from Windows 7, 8 & 8.1.

I thought I had a serious problem in that when I went to Office Professional 2010 the list included a place for the KEY! I did not know if I could even find that old Key in that I have not had any need for it since I installed it years ago. So far I have not been required to produce it for either PC with Win 10 but I am a bit uncomfortable about it.

I would suggest that anyone upgrading to Windows 10 might want to look around to be sure they have the product key for any programs they purchased BEFORE they upgrade to Windows 10 - just in case you might need it.

I may need to buy a microphone for this desktop PC (no mic or camera) as it seems that Windows 10 may be using voice a lot.

Jerry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I just had a friend email me that his XP Pro machine had crashed (NOT related to the OS BTW). He didn't have his original CD for XP Pro install, so he went with Win7 per recommendation of his IT guy. According to most sources I know, Win 10 is junk! It will take a while to get the bugs out for sure.

My PC STILL runs XP PRO because it's a strong platform and well proven. Instead of going to another Windows mess like 7,8 or 10, I purchased a new MacBook Pro and I'm very happy with it. Yosemite is a great platform! The ONLY reason I won't give up on XP Pro is cause I have many high-end cad systems (over $50,000 in software) and I can't run this software on 7, 8 or 10. Thanks Microsoft!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Gary,

If it had been an option I would still be running XP Pro and Office 2003. Unfortunately my IBM (Lenovo) tower PC's developed a problem with one CD drive after another quitting (replacing them with another CD drive did not help). Finally I admitted defeat and trashed them.

I probably still have an original XP Pro CD and probably an SP1 or SP2 update. If you really need it send me a PM and we should be able to work it out.

Jerry



Gary Armitstead said:


> I just had a friend email me that his XP Pro machine had crashed (NOT related to the OS BTW). He didn't have his original CD for XP Pro install,


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> Hi Gary,
> 
> If it had been an option I would still be running XP Pro and Office 2003. Unfortunately my IBM (Lenovo) tower PC's developed a problem with one CD drive after another quitting (replacing them with another CD drive did not help). Finally I admitted defeat and trashed them.
> 
> ...


Jerry,

I'm still good with XP Pro because I have the full install CD and Service Pack 3 updates in my computer. Dwight just sent me an email about running my cad programs in Win7 in virtual XP Pro mode. I'll see how that works. The MacBook Pro is for internet and email. I also put Microsoft Office Pro 2010 for Mac in it.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

1 Windows Offer Details

Yes, free! This upgrade offer is for a full version of Windows 10, not a trial. 3GB download required; internet access fees may apply. Estimated retail price for Windows 10 Home shown; actual prices may vary. To take advantage of this free offer, you must upgrade to Windows 10 within one year of availability. Once you upgrade, you have Windows 10 for free on that device.

Windows 10 Upgrade Offer is valid for qualified and genuine Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 devices, including devices you already own. Some hardware/software requirements apply and feature availability may vary by device and market. The availability of Windows 10 upgrade for Windows Phone 8.1 devices may vary by OEM, mobile operator or carrier. Devices must be connected to the internet and have Windows Update enabled. Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update required. Some editions are excluded: Windows 7 Enterprise, Windows 8/8.1 Enterprise, and Windows RT/RT 8.1. Active Software Assurance customers in volume licensing have the benefit to upgrade to Windows 10 enterprise offerings outside of this offer. To check for compatibility and other important installation information, visit your device manufacturer’s website and the Windows 10 Specifications page. Windows 10 is automatically updated. Additional requirements will apply over time for updates. See the Windows 10 Upgrade page for details.

2 3GB download; internet access fees may apply. A metered Internet connection is when a service provider charges by the amount of data sent and received by your PC. Windows 10 is a large file: about 3 GB. Before you start the download on a metered Internet connection, be sure to: (1) Check your current usage, and then figure out if this download might result in additional charges; (2) Allow enough time for the download to finish. Most people with a broadband Internet connection complete the download in an hour or two, but download times will vary based on your connection speed and other factors.

3 Must be running the latest version of Windows 7 (Service Pack 1) to receive the free upgrade to Windows 10 via Windows Update.

4 Must be running the latest version of Windows 8 (Windows 8.1 Update) to receive the free upgrade to Windows 10 via Windows Update.

5 The availability of Windows 10 upgrade for Windows Phone 8.1 devices may vary by OEM, mobile operator or carrier.

6 Also applies to Windows 8.1 country specific editions, Windows 8.1 Single Language, Windows 8.1 with Bing.

7 If you have Windows 7 Home Premium, Windows 7 Professional, Windows 7 Ultimate, Windows 8 Pro with Media Center, or Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center and you install Windows 10, Windows Media Center will be removed. For a limited time (the “eligible period”), on systems upgraded to Windows 10 from one of these older versions of Windows (a “qualified system”), a DVD playback app (“Windows DVD Player”) will be installed. Note: the Windows DVD Player may not be installed immediately; it will be installed after the first successful Windows Update. The Windows DVD Player will be available for purchase from the Window Store for systems that (i) are qualified systems but the eligible period lapsed; (ii) are non-qualified systems; or (iii) were qualified systems but Windows 10 was subsequently clean installed (in this case, Windows Update cannot detect that it was previously a qualified system).


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

For the poster with the boot sector issue, use Ubuntu or Linux mint and delete all partitions re-partition the drive. Windows tools don't work well for low level fixes.

Due to all the grief, cloud, and other issues, including tying the registration to the motherboard, I am giving windows the finger and learning Linux. 

With Linux there is a windows emulator wine, that seems to work for a decent amount of software. And the rest I'll get by with open source versions.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Gary Armitstead said:


> Jerry,
> 
> I'm still good with XP Pro because I have the full install CD and Service Pack 3 updates in my computer.


Hi Gary,

When my IBM/Lenovo tower PCs lost the use of their CDs & DVDs (they all had both CD and DVD) the only way I could save the data on them was to copy to a thumb drive or to a portable hard drive (or to move hard drives from one PC to another). The last tower (Dell) has Vista on it and it still works but I no longer use it.

The anti-virus software did not detect any virus and I never figured out what the problem was but it seemed to only affect the IBM/Lenovo PCs with XP Pro. They were old and I wasn't doing anything important with them (they all had the same data) so it was more inconvenience than disaster.

If forced me to abandon XP Pro and to buy PCs with Windows 8. Actually I was fed up with Windows so I went to OS & iOS and now I just use Windows when I have to.

Jerry


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

I upgraded my oldest laptop last week from 7 to 10. This is my "shop" PC because it is old buggy and unreliable. Had two problems with the upgrade that I would attribute to the PC. First one of the updates to the system for Win 7 had not installed correctly and I couldn't find the problem until the 2 or 3 after I first tried when Microsoft published a program that you could run to show you where problems could be.

The second problem occurred when my disk drive lost track of its own address which is the main reason it is no longer my primary PC. It does this about once every couple of months and you have to let it cool down and then reboot. 

The disk drive failure came two hours into the reconfiguration and forced me to do what Microsoft tells you never to do - force a power down during a reconfiguration

The PC booted back up under Windows 7 with no problems along with a message that the upgrade had failed and would I like to try again. I had to start from scratch (re-download everything) but it all went very smoothly.

I wrote my first program in 1967 so I have watched Microsoft grow up and have never been a big fan of their bloat ware or their business practices. That said, this upgrade has been the best thought out upgrade I've ever done on any computer.

As to performance the old laptop seems quicker although I didn't run any benchmarks. The death of Explorer is to be lauded. The new browser is really quick and clean.

It is a definite improvement over 7 but not enough to get me in a big hurry to do the other machines - the loss of Spider and Free Cell is a BIG negative.

However it does give a path for those of us who like laptops to transition to real tablet PCs and to ditch the keyboards. The real change will come when the hardware guys start taking advantage of the new system for big fast tablets.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I just got off the phone after a couple of hours talking with a Microsoft tech rep. That was after a couple of hours trying to fix it myself. The last PC just would not bring up the Win 10 Update icon (KB3035583 was shown as installed but apparently it was not installed) so I could neither reserve nor install Win 10. Short version is that the last PC is now downloading Win 10 so I will find something else to do for at least 2 - 4 hours. That will leave 3 PC's with Win 10 installed and the rest with Win 10 reserved. None of the other PC's had any particular problems so far. It seems there is always one PC that won't do something.

The last time was upgrading to 8.1. That was a real nightmare that took many months and with the last PC I spent 4 or 5 DAYS talking to MS support for hours and hours and hours.

Whether it is Apple or MS I always volunteer to turn control over to them but they are usually reluctant to do so. In the end they take control and things go a bit faster plus I usually learn something watching how they do what they do.

It will probably be a year or more before I figure out much about Windows 10. I just need to figure out what I used to know how to do with XP Pro.

The best news is that RR-Track V5 seems to be working just fine under Windows 10.

Jerry


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

If I just wanted to keep windows 7 on the home PC, until its time to replace it, (let's say 3 or 4 years) whats the worst that could happen?

I have no desire to update this machine to Windows 10 if I don't have to..its working just fine.

Thanks, 
Scot


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Scottychaos said:


> If I just wanted to keep windows 7 on the home PC, until its time to replace it, (let's say 3 or 4 years) whats the worst that could happen?
> 
> Thanks,
> Scot


Hi Scot,

Others know more about this than I do but for what it is worth, these things come to mind:

1. Windows 7 is now 3 generations old. How long will Microsoft support it?

2. The bad guys have had years to find the weaknesses of Win 7. They now have to start from scratch with Win 10.

3. There was a list price for Win 10 ($119.99 Home Version, $199.99 Pro). Once Win 10 becomes established they may start charging for the upgrade - and charging for help with the upgrade.

4. MS tech support spent 2 hours on the phone with me - until the problem was fixed. It is very important to MS that Win 10 is seen as trouble free. In 3-4 years how much help will there be to upgrade then? Semper said this is the last version so as it becomes the standard help may become harder to get (read expensive).

5. Software companies will be rushing to be Win 10 compatible. Will new software care if it is Win 7 compatible (how about in 3 or 4 years)?

6. If your work upgrades to 10 would it not be easier if your home PC ran 10 also?

7. If you find yourself looking for a job (you may be retired for all I know) perhaps it could be of value to an employer to have employees Win 10 qualified & experienced.

8. There may be some features of Win 10 that could be important to you (and me). I think there is something like Siri (voice commands) that might prove interesting if not valuable. Someone said Edge is a lot better than Explorer.

9. My laptop screens don't look that sharp. Win 10 seems to have more display options (I don't know what yet).

10. In 3 - 4 years you will be 3 - 4 years older and perhaps (like me) new stuff might be harder to learn then.

11. Your PC might have a corrupt file etc. that might cause a problem when updating to 10 (one of my PC's did & the Win 7 PC has had 6 uninstallable USB drivers for many months - I hope Win 10 will fix it). 

*Note: Win 10 apparently fixed the driver issue. No driver problems are now indicated. Win 10 appears to have fixed both (the only) PC's that I was concerned about.*

Since your plan is to eventually replace your PC this is probably unimportant to you. 

12. Even if you buy a new PC in 3 - 4 years, if you upgrade now you will have 3 - 4 years to learn Win 10 which (if I understand Semper correctly) will be the same version sold in 3 - 4 years (and today it is free).

You asked "whats the worst that could happen?" so I figured I would give it a shot.

On the other hand,

1. why fix something that is not broken?

2. why learn something new when it is not necessary?

3. why invest the time and effort before you think it is important?

Etc. etc. etc.

You said "I have no desire to update this machine to Windows 10 if I don't have to."

I cannot think of a single reason why you have to.

In the end the only opinion that matters is yours.

Cheers,

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is Microsoft's page for figuring out how long various versions will be supported... 

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

I wish you the best of luck figuring it out!  I find it tooooooo confusing and gave up on it... not that it doesn't have concrete dates, but it fails to fully explain the difference between the various levels of support... ("Mainstream" and "Extended") and the explanation seems to have a simple mathematical error.. 

"Microsoft will offer mainstream support for a minimum of 5 years from the date of a product's general availability. For example, if you buy a new version of Windows and five years later another version is released, you will still have two years of support left for the previous version. "

I even took my shoes and socks off and my math still fails me in understanding this! 5 - 5 = 2


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Sounds to me that MS is saying that Windows has a warranty of 5 years after purchase date and that Win 7's full coverage warranty (End of mainstream support) expired on January 13, 2015. 

The product may still work 100% but if not, you may not be able to call them unless you are willing to pay for the call.

If you buy it, Apple's extended warranty (AppleCare +) is only good for 2 years on iOS and 3 years on OS. During that time you can call them 24/7 free and the service is great (different level of support for different products). After it expires you have to pay them to talk to you or make an appointment to go to the Genius Bar at your nearest Apple Store (40 miles away for me). After a time (determined by Apple) devices cannot be updated (like an iPhone 4 or iPad 1. 

It is not just Apple that does not continue support for their outdated products like the iPhone 4 and iPad 1 - many apps will no longer update on them or will only allow old updates to be installed (not their latest and best versions), some don't allow any updating at all. Many new apps will not install at all on old devices.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

For anyone who is wondering...

The Windows 10 update is showing to be 2,712.6 MB total on the current laptop. Both it and its twin finally finished downloading and installing after about 12 hours with my very poor DSL.

Then there were some choices that had to be made about whether to use the recommended defaults.

I asked and was told by the MS rep that yes, it might be necessary to provide the product key for previously installed software. So far I have not had the problem but I've only been using Win 10 for a day or two.

For anyone concerned about it, MS says that you will have one month to elect to uninstall Windows 10.

Jerry


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

good list of reasons Jerry, thanks!

Scot


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Happily I am finished installing Win 10 on my PC's.

There is an old Vista tower but I seldom use it anymore. 

I finished upgrading Marilyn's old Win 7 HP. There were a few problems but eventually I was able to sort them out without having to contact MS.

That just leaves the reserved Win 10 for her Win 8.1 ASUS.

She has a hip replacement scheduled for next month so perhaps she/we can learn Win 10 while she recuperates.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Scottychaos said:


> good list of reasons Jerry, thanks!
> 
> Scot


Hi Scot,

I was sort of answering the questions for myself as well - as to what I should do with our kids' PC's.

I'm glad you liked the list.

Jerry


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## punkin (Jun 13, 2015)

I tried it. Felt like I just bought a giant smartphone. Apps and downloads and permissions taking over. Couldn't find where or how to locate my system file structure. Gave it a whirl for there days and went back. Windows wants to make my my computer a personal information cloud sharing no privacy or security net bot. 

I do not like it.


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## capt_turk (Dec 27, 2007)

I quit using ANY Windows products about 10 years ago. Have not regretted it for one minute. I went to Linux Mint. For all intents and purposes, no worries about virus's or malware (have had only one problem related to malware in 10 years), no privacy issues, it only takes minutes to reinstall, even if I trash the whole system. It has great tools to fix problems. It was simple to learn. It cost nothing, and I'm not making Bill Gates even richer.
With only very little work, it boots in about half the time Windows takes.
Except for some proprietary software, there is software available (for free) to do pretty much anything you want to do.
With Steam, there is a butt load of games available.
It leaves a whole bunch more of your hard drive storage available for files.

For anyone that doesn't require Windows for some proprietary software, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would stick to Windows, of ANY version.


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## Cataptrra (Mar 16, 2015)

I would definitely recommend BEFORE ANYONE installs Windows 10 to go and read the information at this forum: http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/for...able-pirated-games-and-unauthorised-hardware/

I, for one, WILL NOT install Windows 10 on ANY of my computers, just glad when Windows 7 TRIED to do it, it failed and stated my computer is "incapable" of running it!


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

I've upgraded to WIN10 and have had very good success on all 3 machines. Runs right nicely. I like it better than 8.1.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

A few days after the W10 launch I downloaded and installed W10 from the reserved icon on my desktop. It took a while and when finished worked for the most part excepting it had the activation error (meaning no personalization) that so many others had. Four contacts with M/soft produced no solutions just told to wait. After about ten days of waiting it reverted to the original W8.1. I had to spend a while getting things back as I wanted them but it went OK. I then reserved W10 again.
After many pop ups from M/soft to upgrade I eventually hit, in error, the pop up instead of the X exit symbol.
I noticed that this time the upgrade was via the familiar Windows Update facility: the initial one had not been (as my pc is German the original upgrade was in German and had to be worked though quite conscientiously). This second download gave me language options - I chose English.
It went smoothly and quickly, in fact it took a little longer to make all the on-off choices in the settings. I am happy with W10 and also like many others prefer it to W8.1.
If I have a complaint about W10 it is the "phoning home" that many apps and features make but it is easy enough to switch them off or, in the case of Cortana, just not use it. However, so much of the internet seems to be intrusive so this is just one more thing. 
My Sony laptop - W7 Home - will wait a while before upgrade, as advised by Sony.


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

I have loaded Windows 10 on two of my machines and have had significant trouble with both. The first was my old Laptop that I use in my shop for web access and music. I loaded it and it seemed fine, After a couple of days I loaded it on my main Laptop and ran into problems quickly.

All of my personnel files and pictures were marked read only and I could not change anything. I then checked my old laptop and found the same problem - just hadn't checked everything before moving on. I fixed the old laptop with a work around suggested on one of the websites and it worked but the other still is incapable of storing anything. 

I would recommend waiting to upgrade for now until all of the bugs are worked out. In the long run it is going to be a much better operating system but I would give it a couple of more months to mature as updates are coming out 3 - 4 times a week.


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

HP Pavillion DV6 laptop about 4 years old: I upgraded to Win 10 from Win 7 a couple of weeks ago, but have just downgraded back to 7 last night. 

Had problems with graphics drivers for Radeon Mobility HD 5000 and HD 4200. I'm not the only one to encounter the same graphics problem with HP laptops that aren't particularly old.

Edge browser (and embedded IE) wouldn't work properly with the authenticated admin pages for my home router and network storage devices (had to use Chrome).

Laptop ran hot with cooling fan on full power all the time.

Pleased to say all back to normal now. Shame, some bits of Win 10 seemed quite nice. Might give it another go in a few months.

We have another newer Acer laptop that we've also upgraded to Win 10, that seems to be working ok although my teenage lad says he preferred win 8.1. 

I think we'll hold back on upgrading the other laptops and PCs in the household.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

ntpntpntp said:


> ...
> although my teenage lad says he preferred win 8.1.


Oh my! Get that poor boy to a doctor, quick!

I just disabled all the "Get Windows 10" nags on my Win 7 system. Simple to Uninstall two "Updates" that were designed just to nag me and nothing else. if someone wants to know which two, I will have to research it again (I tossed the paper that listed the numbers and trash was collected yesterday!)


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

I gave up on Windows when my last xp mashine died, i have been running linux ubuntu and mint, i was thinking at some stage to get a pet windows for playing games, but maybe i just get a playstation for that, otherwise, linux runs great and supports pretty much all areas for home use with free software packages. You can install and run linux from a thumbdrive to test or even dual boot.
If you need windows some of the time use virtual box and run windows in a simulated network so you can still control its outside communication.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have installed 10 on my Desk top and lap top and both running smoothly. Later RJD


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Question... over on the QSI forum, a gentlemen replied to a question regarding Win10 with the following:

_"I would say ditch Win 10 IMHO because they have updated the EULA to give Microsoft control to erase any program that isn't Microsoft at anytime they choose. Ever wonder why the are giving 10 away for free? Trust me, in a few months to a couple of years, any programs like these will permanently cease to work."_

Now, I'm a Mac person, though I have an old XP laptop that I use for programming decoders and sound systems. There's zero possibility of me upgrading that laptop to Win10, but I'm just curious about the above statement, as that seems a bit weird.

Later,

K


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Very interesting Kevin. That along with a comment early in Jerry's thread about mandatory cloud storage, I'll stick with win 7.

I'm giving serious thought to getting an inexpensive laptop that will be hooked up to the Internet and keep my real computer off line.

With thumb drives and SD cards it is easy to move files back and forth.

Chuck


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for their comments, opinions and suggestions.

I am now several weeks into the upgrade and have converted everything possible to Windows 10. That includes:

Mine:
1 Dell desktop that was Windows 8 then 8.1 and now 10.
3 Toshiba laptops that were Windows 8 then 8.1 and now 10.
1 old Dell desktop that was Windows Vista and remains Vista (and unused)
1 each old Dell & Toshiba XP laptops now just used to program decoders.

Marilyn's:
1 HP laptop that was Windows 7 and now 10.
1 ASIS laptop that was Windows 8 then 8.1 and now 10.

When Microsoft stopped support for Windows XP I quit Windows and moved to MAC's and iPads but a few programs forced me back to some Windows (and Marilyn did not want a MAC) so we bought a few inexpensive laptops for Windows capability.

All of the above were inexpensive computers.

It is getting close to 2 months since I upgraded to Windows 10 - and I just don't have any sort of firm opinion about it (good or bad).

If someone asked me, I would neither recommend it nor recommend against it. I only use it if and when I need to but I think I will end up liking it better than previous versions (which I never liked). 

RR-Track works with it and that was my primary reason for keeping anything with Windows on it.

I am not going to try to monitor or guide this topic (I am not qualified to do it).

I welcome everyone to continue posting your opinions, experiences and observations about Windows 10 (good, bad or indifferent).

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

As for comments regarding Microsoft purposes, incompatibilities etc. my very unqualified opinion is that I consider the internet to be the greatest threat to theft and abuse of anything I use a computer for.

My goal is to gradually take any and all personal information (as much as possible) off of my computers. For me personally I would not care if it became impossible to run anything that was not by or approved by Microsoft on my Windows 10 PCs. Apple pretty much does this with their OS and iOS (I think).

If I had my way I would have the bank terminate all access to any accounts via the internet and go back to drive up banking. I doubt this would help much as someone may hack into the bank anyway.

This is not a recommendation for anyone else. 

In the end, who do/can you trust?

I don't trust the internet and I don't trust any of the anti-virus programs and I don't trust any public WiFi.

I don't have any answers other than I try to keep everything possible off the computers and off the internet (and use old XP PCs with no internet access as much as possible).

The truth is that there is very little today that I use computers for that is important. 

If possible I would be happy to lock several PCs & iPads so they could not do anything other than (anonymously?) access web sites and run programs that require no personal data.

Jerry


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for the thread.
I strongly Dislike the cloud. Marginal DSL and a laptop taken to job sites, both vote against it.
I'd rather pay for more memory.
I'm stuck on the fence, have 8.1, but it still takes me a time to figure my way into settings.
For the life of me I don't know why I need to log in to Xbox, to play solitaire! Each time I open games I have to wait for that page to load, just to cancel it....
John


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Michael W said:


> I gave up on Windows when my last xp mashine died, i have been running linux ubuntu and mint, i was thinking at some stage to get a pet windows for playing games, but maybe i just get a playstation for that, otherwise, linux runs great and supports pretty much all areas for home use with free software packages. You can install and run linux from a thumbdrive to test or even dual boot.
> If you need windows some of the time use virtual box and run windows in a simulated network so you can still control its outside communication.


Yep: Use VirtualBox/Citrix/VMware to run a Windows virtual machine on your Linux box. 

I work for a large software company and 90% of my work is done on Ubuntu. For the one application I need that's not available, I have a Windows XP vm. I also have one piece of train-related software that's Windows-only. I only ever power up that virtual machine when I'm specifically using either of those tools. I never allow it to connect it to the network. And the inadequacies of Windows are even more glaringly obvious than usual when you're using it as an app.


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Wish we had a like button on this...lol


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

My computer was all working well under Win 10 upgrade until this morning. Now Chrome won't work and MS wants me to play watch the spinning thingy. The ability to print from MS Edge (new browser) was missing but was updated only recently. I don't particularly want to use Edge but now are forced to. 
As usual MS are using us all as Guinea pigs to find out what is obvious to a 5 year old.

Andrew


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm glad I haven't jumped on the band wagon. I'm not a computer Geek, but I've had to live with them for a number of years, MAC and windows. The one thing I have learned is wait a few months. If I have to get a new unit, it will probably be a 10. Unless, it revert to MAC. 

My problem is that new operating systems may not operate older programs. In my case that isn't GOOD.

A few years ago our IT people came in and upgraded our MACs to something above 10.48. Many of my applications and programs ran on MAC classic, older programs, are now not accessible. No one told us when they did the upgrade what it would do. My wife and I are retired and still contributing, but the chance of getting programs that will do what we need, and had, is (0).

My advice is don't upgrade unless there is a valid reason, not just because it is new and should be better. It may be or not.

I appreciate Jerry starting this thread. The more we know the better prepared we are to make an informed decision.

I have printers that go back to XP. I had to pay more for 7 Pro, so they would work on my new laptop. How far back does 10 go in running software and things like printers?

End of RANT.

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Chuck, 
I'm with you. After all I do have a year to upgrade, unless Microbloat revokes it like they did my Vista to 7 free upgrade ...

What fun, Luddites Rule!
John


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

If these technology companies keep doing as they are, some of us will end up going back to paper and pencil!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

BRO

Then we will all have to go to live steam, so we can send smoke signals.

Cheers,

Chuck


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

*So far, no real issues.*

Upgraded my desktop machine (used mainly for video editing & RC flight sims lately - I do most casual net-surfing & stuff like online banking from my iPad most of the time). from Win 7 Pro 64-bit to the Win 10 equivalent. (NEVER had Windows 8 on *ANY* of my machines, avoided it like the plague!  Had done a bit of research beforehand regarding the privacy issues - in the initial setup after it installs, there a setting screen for privacy options - go to the *"ADVANCED"* page & it's easy to opt out of a lot of the more objectionable stuff - think I turned almost *EVERYTHING OFF* except for error reporting & maybe one other option.  Installation was relatively painless (did an image backup beforehand just in case) - took about an hour.  PC definitely seems to boot & shut down faster, no real complaints so far after a couple of weeks use.  Tom


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I just tried re-installing google Chrome and it still won't work under Windows 10. 
MS must have done a Win 10 upgrade last night which has messed things up.

Andrew


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Garratt said:


> I just tried re-installing google Chrome and it still won't work under Windows 10.
> MS must have done a Win 10 upgrade last night which has messed things up.
> 
> Andrew


Maybe it's like back in the 90s when Bill Gates was widely thought to have said some version of "Windows ain't done til Netscape won't run"


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

It seems the browsers suddenly not working after a few days of Windows 10 being installed is common with others too. Apparently FireFox will not work a few days after Windows 10 is installed either.
MicroSoft's help forum advice is to use their browser... 
MS and their anti competitive rubbish all over again. They should nail that little four eyed geek to an apple tree.

Andrew


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Andrew, 
Do you run Adaware? I used to, their unwanted add on; Web Companion wouldn't let my browsers open. I uninstalled the Web C. but eventually removed the host too. 
All better for what it is.
So happy I've tuned into a PROcrastinator! 
John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Boxy is the mobile config.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I updated a tower and a laptop to win 10 and had no issues whatsoever!!!!
All my hardware drivers were up to date before I started as was my windows (8.1 tower win7 on laptop). Also my bios was up to date.
I did do advanced and let big brother know I wanted no tracking or cloud. Microsoft is trying to watch you!!!


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Linux is the way.....


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Today Apple announced the iPad Pro (I've been waiting 2 years for it). A surprise guest was Microsoft with an announcement that a version of Office for the iPad Pro will soon be available.

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/09/apple-announces-12-9-inch-ipad-pro/

http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/9/9295985/microsoft-office-ipad-pro-demonstration

I have used Office with Windows and with OS and with limited satisfaction with iOS devices. 

It is possible that the iPad Pro will be the missing link in what I have wanted to do with Office (but needed a laptop to use it satisfactorily). 

I will not be surprised if I find that my interest in Windows 10 diminishes greatly once deliveries of iPad Pro with Office begins in November.

Jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> I updated a tower and a laptop to win 10 and had no issues whatsoever!!!!
> All my hardware drivers were up to date before I started as was my windows (8.1 tower win7 on laptop). Also my bios was up to date.
> I did do advanced and let big brother know I wanted no tracking or cloud. Microsoft is trying to watch you!!!


Same here with the cloud. Don't need or want or use. Just another spy Later RJD


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I like some aspects of "the cloud".
90% of what I used to do with "word" or "excel" I now do with google docs..
And now I dont need to pay $140 to have MS office at home..

I keep things like: my coin collection list, my Garden railroad equipment list, random documents that arent "sensitive"..
I wouldnt upload my tax returns there!  but for just basic stuff, I like it..very handy, can access anywhere..
yeah its "out of my control" because it lives 'in the cloud"..but so what?
for anything thats not of a personal or sensitive nature, I think its great! 

I have also started migrating some webpages to google..
I moved my garden RR club's webpage to google a year or so ago:
https://sites.google.com/site/1991gggrs/
*very* convenient having it there!

and im starting to move some personal hobby pages there too:
https://sites.google.com/site/scotlawrence/BDE129

I have no concerns about it, for uses like that.
yeah, I wouldnt want *all* documents on my computer "in the cloud"! 
thats a no-brainer..obviously some things need to stay "local"..
but the cloud has its place..

Scot


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

The IT guy came to my wife's hospital room so I asked him about Windows 10. He said the hospital is staying with Win 7 because their software is not compatible with Windows 10. On the other hand he went with Win 10 for his personal PC's and really likes it.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

My son brought his 8.0 laptop over yesterday. I finally got it upgraded to 8.1 but with an error I had run into before. So far I cannot start the Win 10 upgrade. There is a warning that he is near his iCloud limit. I think it is because he used it to back up his PC.

What do others (you) do to back up inexpensive laptop hard drives - memory keys?

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

For the record, Chrome browser is now functional again under Windows 10. An update fixed the problem.
All seems fine but I have not tested many applications so far.
I found while using the MS Edge browser that it has no browsing history and a few other issues.

Andrew


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Jerry McColgan said:


> What do others (you) do to back up inexpensive laptop hard drives - memory keys?


I have a couple of 1TB external drives that connect via USB that I bought for about $50 each. I use those to keep backups of the important files from several computers. I've had them for a couple years now and they're reliable and "fast enough" for incremental backups (i.e. I'm not copying over all the files each time--just the changed ones) They are also pretty small--though not as small as the USB flash drives you're thinking of. They're actual notebook hard drives in a tiny case.

Drives like these are cheap enough that you could afford to have more than one. I visit my parents in another state several times a year and leave a drive with them, taking whichever one they currently have home with me to sync and backup. It's a poor-man's off-site storage so I don't lose everything if a tornado comes through.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I use a 1TB external drive also (Western Digital "MY BOOK") for backups.

I also found that they make a really nice way to attach drives from defunct laptops to a new laptop to recover files! Getting the MY BOOK apart was a bit of a challenge to know where to pry and when to slide, but then it is just a matter of a couple of screws to separate the drive from the control board and put the drive from the old laptop in place of the drive that was in the MY BOOK. Plug it into the new PC's USB port, and bingo! Access to the old laptop files.  (WHEW!, I had not made a back up recently!)


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I keep many of my daily files (budget stuff) on USB drive.

I backup my laptop to a Western Digital 1TB "My Passport" USB powered drive, and a 3TB "My Book" AC powered drive.

Since I take a lot of photographs, I copy the camera to the 3TB when I import the photos. I then delete most of the photos on my laptop, keeping the only full card-read data on the 3TB.

Semper,

That's a neat idea for anything other than a malware failure of your PC. Do you think it is safe to connect a salvaged drive to a new PC if a malware got your old PC?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

BigRedOne said:


> I keep many of my daily files (budget stuff) on USB drive.
> 
> I backup my laptop to a Western Digital 1TB "My Passport" USB powered drive, and a 3TB "My Book" AC powered drive.
> 
> ...


BigRedOne:

As long as you are just transferring datafiles you SHOULD BE safe. Definitely do not transfer programs unless you can vet them somehow (like knowing what size they WERE when newly installed and can verify they haven't changed size). Of course there are malware infestations that can get into "Active Content" type files (video/audio files, PDF and Office files and a few others), so there is always some concern... update your anti-malware program and then hook up the old drive and scan it for problems; then don't transfer any that are marked as questionable.

(But there will always be that infernal nagging doubt.)


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

One note for doing transfer of data files from a malware infected drive. I prefer a 2-step transfer, first to a spare computer with anti virus and anti malware protection cranked up to 11. 

After that, copy the verified clean files to the new computer.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

My son broke his iPhone ($79 for a new replacement under AppleCare+). He was lucky since his AppleCare+ expires in a few weeks.

I backed the broken iPhone to his (now) Win 10 laptop with iTunes and the next day the new iPhone was here FedEx and I set it up from the backup. The current iTunes seems to work well with Win 10. Even Apple Update seems to work well with Win 10. Perhaps Apple & MS have finally decided to cooperate.

I finally figured out how to run Windows Backup and Windows Defender with Windows 10.

Surprisingly I am starting to learn and like Windows 10. I think I will like it better than Vista, Win 7, 8 & 8.1 (none of which I ever bothered to learn). For the first time my wife & I and our son's family will all be using the same Windows version.

It should not take long to get Andrew's family's PC's upgraded to Win 10 as well.

Meanwhile Apple's El Capitan came out a few days ago and I've already finished those upgrades.

Jerry


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

One thing I have read a lot, and it makes sense to me, is:

1.) If its an already existing Windows 7 machine, (or Win 8, and you dont have anything against Win 8) and you have had it for a year or more, then don't bother to upgrade to Windows 10. with lots of stuff already setup and configured, there is more that could go wrong with the upgrade..and there is no real reason to upgrade as far as the computer itself is concerned..the only real reason to upgrade is "because I want to." (That applies more to Win 7 users than Win 8 users..because people generally like Win7, but not so much for Win8..) (Windows 7 will still receive security updates until 2020)

2.) If its a brand-new machine, that came new with Windows 8.1, then do the Windows 10 upgrade first thing..

I have done both of those..and I think its a smart way to go..
My wife and I have our main home PC..its maybe three years old, running Windows 7.
No problems with it at all, its running fine..I dont *want* to upgrade that machine to Windows 10! because there is no compelling reason to do so..Im happy with Windows 7, I like it, so im just going to keep it as-is, running Win7, until its time to replace it in another 2 or 3 years..then a new machine will probably come new with Win10.

We also bought a new laptop for my wife a month or so ago..
Windows 10 machines had just come out, but probably 90% of laptops still for sale were still running Windows 8.1..I wanted to get a new Win10 machine, but we couldn't find one with the specs and price we wanted..So we went with a brand-new Win 8.1 machine..

I fired it up, brand new, and immediately did the switch to Win 10 first thing..
Its been working fine on Win 10..no problems with the upgrade, and no problems with the machine since the upgrade..

Scot


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*How good is Windows 10's Windows Defender?*

When I first installed Windows 10, Windows Defender and Windows Update both seemed to disappear - just as Microsoft Security Essentials previously did.

I finally discovered how to now run Windows Update and Windows Defender with Settings: Update & Security.

I don't know if there is anything new or different with Windows Defender but I have always wondered just how good Windows Defender is.

In the past, free Microsoft anti-virus was not 100% efficient but then neither were the other anti-virus programs I used.

I am not an expert and I offer no advice to others but for me, I consider buying anti-virus for everything to be cost-prohibitive so I will just live with Windows Defender for better or worse.

Still, I am curious. For those proficient with internet security, just how good or bad does Windows Defender happen to be? I'm going to stick with it anyway because I am unwilling to pay excessively for the alternatives. Most of my devices are carbon copies of other devices (like telephone extensions) so they have less individual value to me.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Windows Defender is a renaming of Microsoft Security Essentials and a somewhat blending of the old WIndows Defender and MSE. It is as good as most any of the other anti-malware programs, but may be the venue of attack by the miscreants that want to do mischief simply because it will be the most common defense in use (crack it and you have the greatest number of vulnerable PCs to go after).But I am sticking with it for now because it is all so new that it is less vulnerable than the other older ant-malware systems, and it is the least intrusive in my life of the (very) FEW I have played with while using Windows 8.1 & 10.

I still recommend using a separate anti-malware scanning program to double check things periodically. I run Malwarebytes Anti-Malware once a day as part of my daily wake up routine... never found anything with it, but it gives me the "warm fuzzies" to pretend that I am doing something active toward defending myself.

I used to run Spybot Search and Destroy as a secondary (or tertiary) defense, but when I installed it in Win 10 to continue using it in that mode, it took over as the main anti-malware program, disabling Windows Defender and I was not able to find how to make it back off. So I uninstalled it, and re-enabled Defender. (And had to do some manual editing of things to get rid of a "let's reinstall Spybot S&D in winders 10 for you" program that it installed with it, but didn't remove in the uninstall.)

I had Norton's on this PC when it was a Win 8.1 and I found it way too intrusive on my lifestyle... constant alerts to buy more or telling me how wonderful it was... every attempt to make it shut-up was met with "are you sure?" and warnings that I really should not do that.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I used to work for one of the bigger anti-virus software companies and can tell you that they're all providing about the same protection. They watch each others' virus definition files and even share information on new threats, so on that end you're going to get similar detection rates.

As Semper mentioned, the overhead is the biggest differentiator. Some are pretty small footprint and low utilization, some take up a lot of memory and CPU cycles. Some only warn you if there's a threat detected, others constantly nag.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Years ago I started out with the original Norton anti-virus and Doctor etc. They were good products but they kept re-inventing themselves to come up with additional products you were supposed to buy.

The main reason I quit Norton (pre-Symantec) was that I found Norton to be by far the most difficult program I ever installed in terms about how almost impossibly difficult it was to remove Norton from a PC.

In the old days the first programs I ever bought for a PC was Sub-Logic's Flight Simulator to discover if a non-IBM PC was truly IBM compatible and Norton back when it IMHO was the best anti-virus and trouble shooting program available. 

I'll never forget Peter Norton's famous "Never buy Version 1.0 of anything!"

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*Surface Book & Surface Pro 4*

I noticed that Best Buy is now taking pre-orders for Surface Book and Surface Pro 4.

I am glad I noticed as my needs are too limited to justify spending that much (I am sure they are worth it for those who need their features).

For me, I'll just sit back and wait for the iPad Pro. I got on a list to be called when it becomes available. For what it is worth, I was told the only MS Office that will work well with it will be Office 365 (for the Pencil, keyboard etc.).

From the viewpoint of the topic Windows 10 it looks like I will be staying with my present PC's for the foreseeable future and making the effort to become more proficient with them.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> My son brought his 8.0 laptop over yesterday. I finally got it upgraded to 8.1 but with an error I had run into before. So far I cannot start the Win 10 upgrade. There is a warning that he is near his iCloud limit. I think it is because he used it to back up his PC.
> 
> What do others (you) do to back up inexpensive laptop hard drives - memory keys?
> 
> ...


I got my son's laptop upgraded from 8.1 to Windows 10 a few days ago and again the Win 10 upgrade fixed the Win 8.1 error.

In upgrading to Win 10 I discovered Windows Defender and Windows Update through System.

Neither my son or wife expressed any concern for backup other than I backed their iPads to their now Win 10 laptops via iTunes. If they are not concerned I am not going to worry about it.

My iOS DEVICES are backed to the primary Mac Mini which is backed to an Airport Time Capsule 3TB. The rest of the Mac's & Win 10's are backed to some 1TB or 500GB portable hard drives.

I should not admit it but I just learned that I can get to Start(?) by pressing that key with the window on it (really). I don't think my XP-Pro PC's have that funny key. I'll have to check.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*Update:
*
Last night I finally finished the last 3 Windows 10 Upgrades. This totaled 10 Upgrades from Win 7, Win 8 & Win 8.1.

The short version is that I first had to do a huge numbers of updates to get from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 (including a lot of Defender updates). That took MANY hours and several days (I have a slow Wi-Fi).

With one PC I could not complete the upgrade without assistance. I managed to get in touch with Microsoft.

*Here is the Microsoft MAGIC NUMBER for Windows 10 Upgrade Technical Support:

866-425-8809*

When I needed them, they telephoned me back promptly and they stayed in contact with me both by phone and via the PC on the internet until the Windows 10 Upgrade was completed...

And then they phoned me again this morning - just to be sure everything was now working perfectly.

They even asked if I had any comments to pass on to the techs who had helped me (she was in the Philippines).

Jerry


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

MS Train Simulator has issues under Windows 10. The software closes right after you start it. Some have got it going,. I think it may be a graphics card issue. The editors do work though. One simple workaround is to download and install Open Rails which is a public domain RR simulation project that uses MSTS routs and engines etc. OR has no routs etc. or editors itself at the moment but it works just the same.

Andrew


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Garratt said:


> MS Train Simulator has issues under Windows 10. The software closes right after you start it. Some have got it going,. I think it may be a graphics card issue. The editors do work though. One simple workaround is to download and install Open Rails which is a public domain RR simulation project that uses MSTS routs and engines etc. OR has no routs etc. or editors itself at the moment but it works just the same.
> 
> Andrew


Hi Andrew,

I have not run MS Train Simulator in years (under XP Pro last I think).

If it is possible to run it under Windows 10, I for one would love to know how.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Jerry, I'm not sure but searching online some do have it going on Windows 10. Just download Open Rails instead. It has no routs or locos etc. at the moment but on install it looks in the registry and finds where the MSTS ones are and works just the same. Open Rails is the future as PC graphics get better. I think it may already be better than MSTS which is an old product now.

http://openrails.org/

Andrew


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Andrew,

I appreciate your suggestion and will eventually try it. For now I am so happy to be done with that last Windows 10 upgrade that I may not want to look at another PC until after the iPad Pro gets here and I get Office 365 installed on it. If I am lucky Apple will fail to deliver until after New Years Day. 

Many thanks,

Jerry


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

When I started using my laptop this afternoon, it said "WELCOME TO WINDOWS 10". As far as we know. Neither of us ask for the upgrade. 

I had heard rumors of this happening, but just rumors. Right now MS is restoring my system ti win7. The opening window had a "next box". I clicked on that and it brought up the rules to accept or decline. I clicked on decline. That brought up a dialogue that said it would restore my laptop back to its earlier condition. Right now it is doing that.

Stay tuned.

Chuck

3:40 Everything seems back to normal (WIN 7). Only time will tell!

If you are on Windows < 10 and don't want 10 go to your preferences an uncheck "automatic upgrades" or something similar.

I just received an email for a GrEat friend. With some information I wish I had known.

"Yes windows 10 will automatically update on your computer, it was upgraded to a normal automatic update a month or so ago. 
There was a bunch of hoo-ra about this and there was a way to prevent it. Google is your friend here."


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

It's now been 9 months since I started this topic and updated my Windows desktop and laptops to Windows 10. At this point I don't have anything good or bad to say about it. About all I do I keep Windows, Office & Defender updated. I'm not happy with iTunes or Apple Mail on them so just use Hotmail & Live on them.

99% of the time the Windows PC's sit dark and silent. 90% of the time (like now) I use an iPad.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I had it for a while then my start button disappeared. It is a common problem but no simple clear fixes posted on the web that I could find and updates never repaired it. I could still use my computer with a right click though.
I eventually reinstalled Windows 7 and now the free Win 10 update annoyance box pops up but the free upgrade is dysfunctional. 
So good on ya Bill you've done it again, slap! 

I have persisted with this Windows crap since year dot and had a gut full. I may soon defect to the other side. 

Andrew


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Here is a bit of an ironic Windows event:

Several months ago, my Win 7 laptop did an update, and after that I constantly have a window pop up accusing me of not using a legal copy of Windows 7. Or course it is legal, came with the laptop new. So I have to close the window a few times a day. But I have never had a Win 10 install either forced or offered to me.
Perhaps I am "immune" to Win 10 upgrades since they think I am a criminal?

Jerry


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Jerry, it probably is as you say. No, not that you're a criminal but do you actually have the Win 7 disc with serial number? Some vendors install an OEM copy but do not supply the disc to register. Depends on what you thought you were getting in the deal - They often cheat their customers this way. 

Andrew


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Andrew,

All of my MS software is registered with & MS provided the free Win 10 upgrades.

Because of my various iOS, OSX & W10 devices I do an ongoing dance with MS over Office etc. MS tries to push me to 365 but I waited until I got (I think) 5 W10/OSX plus 5 iOS FOR $99 a year. The rest are individual licenses (all registered with MS).

Under some conditions (some upgrade problems) MS sometimes provides free tech support. I got DAYS of free tech support (I think it is no longer available).

My PCs had W8 or 8.1 (1 had W7). There are a few bugs but now I only have 1 Win OS to learn & use.

I moved to the dark side when MS stopped supporting XP Pro. Some programs like RR-Track left a need for Windows & W10 sort of forced me to Outlook/Hotmail.

I started with C-64 tape, then IBM PC & MS DOS 2.1 & later W3.0 on 3-23-1992.

The last Windows Upgrade I really wanted or needed:








I could do then whatever I want to do now.

The only thing really new for me has been the iPads.

Jerry


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