# Handlaying Track in 1/29 Scale



## trisonic (Mar 22, 2011)

Does anyone here do this? I'd like to have a go.
What's a good source(s) for components incl. tie plates and gauges? Is aluminium rail a complete no-no for rail powered track? 

Grateful for advice and insights.
Many thanks, Pete. 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
I've handlayed a couple hundred feet of track with llagas creek rail (code 215, & 250 al). I personally use Hartford Product tie plates (they have 4 holes per tie plate) and Micro Engineering spikes. If you are serious about handlaying and using tie plates it takes a bit longer then not using tie plates but I think it looks much better. I used both cedar cut on my table saw, and presized wood from Ozark Miniatures. Making your own ties is easy, but it makes a lot of sawdust but well worth it. Right now I'm working on handlaying a #9 turnout.  
Being a battery guy I wouldn't know about aluminium rail for track power. 

Craig


----------



## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Pete,
I am hand-spiking my track, but in 1:20.3 scale. I cut my ties from cedar and use 3/8" spikes from Micro Engineering. I use Code 215 Llagas Creek aluminum rail which I pre-paint before installation. I do not use tie plates. I generally spike the rail while setting at my workbench and then take the completed roadbed/track module outside and install it on the layout. Most modules are six to eight feet in length. Here is a photo of a completed module laying on the floor. The floor tiles are one foot squares.











Here is the underside of the above module.











Here is an example of a curved turnout module in work without the rail spiked.










As for the power question with aluminum rails ... I use onboard battery power so conductivity is not an issue for me.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

What's a good source(s) for components incl. tie plates and gauges? Is aluminium rail a complete no-no for rail powered track? 
As mentioned, Llagas Creek and Micro Engineering are good sources for components. I understand aluminum rail oxidizes, but (like the others) I run battery power so I never tried it! Nickel Silver is probably the best conductor and most realistic material for track power rails - it is almost universal in the smaller scales. 

I used Micro Engineering plates and spikes on redwood ties, some I cut myself. Kappler Lumber offers red cedar ties in #1 scale (1:32) which is close enough to 1:29. I learned to pre-drill the ties through the tie plates to make spiking less painful on my hands. (The drill was/is a battery-powered Dremel and the drill was very small.) Micromark sells a spiking plier, which I recommend. 

That being said, I didn't enjopy it and soon gave up spiking my own plain track. Too much like hard work for very little gain! 1/32nd track is available (e.g. SVRR and LLagas) and so are track bases and rail (e.g. from Llagas) making it much easier at very little extra cost. 

I did continue to make my own switches though. As Bob's photo above shows, you can make some out-of-the-ordinary units at very low cost.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There are some people who are successful in using track power on aluminum rail. These are the exceptions. 

There are many more that suffer the basic physics, it's a metal that oxidizes easily, is easily attacked by salt air, acid rain, acids in soil, etc. 

Don't start with it for track power. 

Track is the foundation of your railroad, set yourself for success with a good foundation. 

You can find inexpensive brass rail, and solder jumpers to save money. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## trisonic (Mar 22, 2011)

Thank you all very much for your comments and insights. I really don't care for brass trackwork. Nickel Silver is often too "yellow" for me!! The proposed layout will be an indoor one. 

Best, Pete.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That would have helped in the beginning... indoors you can use whatever you want, get NoAlox to put in the joiners... 

Greg


----------



## trisonic (Mar 22, 2011)

@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Sorry. I'm not used to considering the great wide outdoors for layouts. This is just an experiment modelling a small prototype interchange between the NS and a shortline. I'm hoping to get away with using no more than 25 foot linearly. 
The reason I want to try this is that HO is becoming too small for my eyes and what I want in 2 rail O Fine Scale is just too difficult to find in stock. 

Thanks for your advice. 

Best, Pete.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

25 linear feet? That's it? Wow that's one small diorama. It is just going to be a simple 1 track interchange? I for one would like to see pictures of your progress and I'm sure others would too. Because you've only got 25' I say detail the heck out of it. Tie plates, 39' rail sections (if correct), etc. 

Craig


----------



## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Pete:

You can also use pure Nickel plated brass rail as well. and for an indoor layout you could use a spray painting application that makes the sides look rusty. I have seen it quickly done by taping with painters tape the top of the rail heads and alongside the tie strips so that the paint will go onto the rail sides. The Buntbahn.de had a few poeple showing their pcitures there.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I forgot to tell you that a good indoor stain for wood is 1:1 Black leather shoe die & Rubbing alcohol. Its looks very much like creosote and will stay that way indoors. Outdoors it tends to fade with time (this is what I did to all my ties at first). But indoors you shouldn't have a problem with fading. 

Craig


----------



## trisonic (Mar 22, 2011)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); @import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); @import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/ht); Posted By bnsfconductor on 08 Oct 2011 11:30 AM 
25 linear feet? That's it? Wow that's one small diorama. It is just going to be a simple 1 track interchange? I for one would like to see pictures of your progress and I'm sure others would too. Because you've only got 25' I say detail the heck out of it. Tie plates, 39' rail sections (if correct), etc. 

Craig



That is what I intend to do - and yes it is a simple one line off a NS main single line with a kick back twin siding, a loop off the main (short) line. Leaving the shortline mainline (phew) open for any future expansion. I enjoy making the stuff more than operations so detailing is important to me.

Thanks for all the replies I haven't acknowledged to date!


Best, Pete.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By trisonic on 16 Oct 2011 07:34 PM 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); @import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); @import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/provider); Posted By bnsfconductor on 08 Oct 2011 11:30 AM 
25 linear feet? That's it? Wow that's one small diorama. It is just going to be a simple 1 track interchange? I for one would like to see pictures of your progress and I'm sure others would too. Because you've only got 25' I say detail the heck out of it. Tie plates, 39' rail sections (if correct), etc. 

Craig



That is what I intend to do - and yes it is a simple one line off a NS main single line with a kick back twin siding, a loop off the main (short) line. Leaving the shortline mainline (phew) open for any future expansion. I enjoy making the stuff more than operations so detailing is important to me.

Thanks for all the replies I haven't acknowledged to date!


Best, Pete. 
I'm trying to build a #9 turnout based on NP standard plans to see if it's worth the extra work to detail everything, and also to see how well it weathers outside. It should be an interesting experiment. I personally think that track in all scales is under detailed and under looked by most modellers. My 'hate' seeing handlayed rail that doesn't have spikes on every tie, or tie plates in any scale. Why go forth with the extra effort to handlay and not detail? I've never understood.
Craig


----------



## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

I've used Llagas Creek aluminum track and switches for nearly ten years with track power. Depending on your climate, it can work for you. My climate is hot in the summer, cooler and farirly dry in the winder (14 inches of rain per year, almsot all of it between October and May. This year has been an exception. 

Condutivity can be a problem, as the "rust" aluminum oxide does not conduct electricity very well. Cleaning the track with a wall sander with scotchbrite pads works great and won't sand off the much-softer-than-brass aluminum. 

Only serous problem comes with the joiners. Stainless steel sliding joiners seem to loose their hold (perhaps it the aluminum expanding and contracting with heat/cool). I replace the original ones sent by Llagas Creek with Hillman brass clamps. Unfortunagely brass and aluminum are mortal enemies when electricity passes from one to the other. And the corrosion really doesn't conduct electricity. 

My solution was to line the Hillman Clamp with a piece of aluminum foil. I use no ox to hold it in place 'til it's clamped tight. I also use a few drops of automatic transmission fluiid, DexRon III, spread over the track by the wheels of a locomotive. 

Then the track seems very reliable. Aluminum track was the cheapest stuff available when I began and I really wanted code 250 track since it looks better to me when I'm running 1/32 equipment. 

One last thing: Read all the advice, then do what you feel is right for you and your location.


----------



## trisonic (Mar 22, 2011)

Craig, 
Code 215? Do you have sources for "tie plates" etc? What about semi-scale wheels, any ideas? 

Dick, 
I'm looking for more scale items for rail joiners - as it will be in an air-conditioned environment I'm not too worried about temperature fluctuations. 

Basically I'm looking at "Finescale 1/29" and wondering if it is possible? 

Thanks everyone, Pete.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
Llagas makes code 215. 'I think' some manufacturer makes code 205 but I can't remember right now. I get my tie plates from Hartford products, they are .264 x .460 x .055 with a rail base size of 5 mm which is what llagas is. This are the only tie plates that I could find that have 4 holes per ties. Llagas makes some nice insulated rail joiners that have great bolt nut washer detail but they have a bit large on the rail foot. I'm experimenting with using .030 x .100 styrene strips with my own NBW details (HO scale) to see if they look better then the llagas ones. 
I've had no problems running the standard wheel flanges on code 215 rail. That said I have also converted my locomotives to NWSL's semi-scale wheels (more because I wanted to get rid of the traction tires and replace the USA gears). DON'T buy the fine scale wheels from NWSL because they will NOT work regardless of how well you lay your track. For everything else Gary Raymond has a nice selection of semi-scale flange wheels. 
NWSL http://www.nwsl.com/wheelsets/nwsl-precision 1-gauge-wheels for-usa-trains gp7-gp38-f3 aristo-fa-rs3 
Gary Raymond http://www.audiomobiles.com/trains/pricelist.html 

Now if you really want to blow your mind and completely do everything right don't used 45 mm gauge track. (remember 1/29 is 'not' the correct scale/gauge off by 10%) But then you would have to customize all the wheel sets by making them slightly bigger. I would stick to 45mm personally although it would be temping to try (and you may be the first to start a new trend) 

Craig 
Edit - I recall reading about some modelers looking for smaller then code 215 rail and using S scale flex track and removing the rail. I forget what size it was, but that's another option for something smaller then code 215. But code 215 is equal to 100-110 lb rail so that's fine for what your doing. Now finding something for 90, 80, 70 and lower lb rail would be interesting...


----------



## trisonic (Mar 22, 2011)

Now you're talking. I considered going for a correct gauge - but where do you stop? How much different is 1/29 from 1/32 anyway. 
I was looking at rail designed for O gauge which could be an avenue worth pursuing...........there is a page on the Warris Bros, "Fast Tracks" site that compares various code model rail across all gauges - but I can't find it right now (it's buried in their site) 
Craig, many thanks for your thoughts and ideas - it's good to feel that one isn't alone (that sentence spells out i'm bloody English in the 'States!!!) 
All the best, Pete.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By trisonic on 17 Oct 2011 09:18 PM 
Now you're talking. I considered going for a correct gauge - but where do you stop? How much different is 1/29 from 1/32 anyway. 
I was looking at rail designed for O gauge which could be an avenue worth pursuing...........there is a page on the Warris Bros, "Fast Tracks" site that compares various code model rail across all gauges - but I can't find it right now (it's buried in their site) 
Craig, many thanks for your thoughts and ideas - it's good to feel that one isn't alone (that sentence spells out i'm bloody English in the 'States!!!) 
All the best, Pete. 
56.5" in 1/29 = 1.9436" spread of rails. 
gauge 1 = 1.772" or 45mm
difference of .1716" according to my math. Not much if you ask me, but to some people they can 'see' the difference. What I find ironic mostly is that the people who consider 1/32 as the pure scale are generally using code .332 rail. Is the difference of .17" seen with code .332? Not likely. But if you use code .215 or smaller it becomes a little more noticeable.
I haven't seen these rail joiners in person but they look appealing to me.
http://www.randkrailroadproducts.co...in_page=product_info&cPath=69&products_id=190

This is British rail at code 180 in gauge one so it is possible.
http://www.cliffbarker.talktalk.net/gauge1products.html 


I personally think that if a few people get involved with the correct gauge it 'may' become possible for more people to be involved, but that said one of the appeals to many people including myself is that ability to take trains to other layouts and not have to worry about the gauge differences.This wouldn't be possible with a slightly wider gauge. I wish I could see where the hobby will be in 20 years... 


Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Craig, if I may how much do you buy tie plates for? The pricing I have seen for 100 tie plates results in a cost of $4.50 - EXTRA - per foot of laid track.This pretty much makes that supper detailing of hand laid track impossible on a large layout. I can sure see it for a small indoor layout, but they cost so much for hundreds of feet of out door track, that it makes the budget unreachable. 

Also, how did you chose a number 9 switch? 

I have thought also along the lines of "widening the wheel sets" to an accurate scale size for 1/29, but reached the same conclusion, who will come play trains with us? And I can not take mine any where else. I have designed a SD90Mac, running on a min. 15 foot radius curve. It will not run anywhere except the Fairplex, or my layout. But, I have enough other locos to take when I visit out of town layouts. So they will run on the home layout only. ( it is a longer loco - over 80 feet long, and rests on a near scale frame, SO movement of the trucks is limited. But it has gotten down to about 14 feet so far, but no smaller. 

Thanks, Dirk - DMS Ry.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 17 Oct 2011 11:07 PM 
Craig, if I may how much do you buy tie plates for? The pricing I have seen for 100 tie plates results in a cost of $4.50 - EXTRA - per foot of laid track.This pretty much makes that supper detailing of hand laid track impossible on a large layout. I can sure see it for a small indoor layout, but they cost so much for hundreds of feet of out door track, that it makes the budget unreachable. 

Also, how did you chose a number 9 switch? 

I have thought also along the lines of "widening the wheel sets" to an accurate scale size for 1/29, but reached the same conclusion, who will come play trains with us? And I can not take mine any where else. I have designed a SD90Mac, running on a min. 15 foot radius curve. It will not run anywhere except the Fairplex, or my layout. But, I have enough other locos to take when I visit out of town layouts. So they will run on the home layout only. ( it is a longer loco - over 80 feet long, and rests on a near scale frame, SO movement of the trucks is limited. But it has gotten down to about 14 feet so far, but no smaller. 

Thanks, Dirk - DMS Ry. 


Tie plates were $15.00 for 100 from Hartford. I hadn't really come up with a price per foot to compare. I had layed over 200' of code 250 without tie plates but I was never pleased with the way it looked, so I'm starting over with code 215 and using tie plates. I'm thinking that I might make a couple of molds and cast my own ties but it's still in the works for the next couple of years while I'm in grad school. How did I decide on a #9 turnout? Simple, the subdivision I'm modeling had every turnout except 4 that were #9's. The other 4 were #11's. I figured it might be interesting to see just how big a #9 turnout is. I'm slowly getting all my supplies together and experimenting with ideas, but when I get some actual progress I will post pictures. I don't really have much time right now to spend on playing trains, but I'm hoping as the school semesters wind down between semesters and in the summer time I might get a little more time each week. The hobby budget is also really really low too..
If my idea of ties works out I may end up making molds of turnout ties too, but all my RTV and casting stuff is in storage right now.  So I figured if I can build at least 2 #9's (left and right) it will give me a good starting point when I get out of school.

Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I have seen the same price for tie plates also. Unless there is some practical way of having or making them, they simply cost too much for a very large layout. Plus a custom set would still be required for switches anyway, as they are not available at all! 

In reference to how big switches are, a #8 is about 38" long - while a #10 will be 44", and again my #14's are 72" overall... The larger the frog number is, the faster they grow long!! Your #9 would be almost 42" long then!!

I'm glad to see that others are "swayed by the hobby budget" also - it really is the bottom line of any hobby we undertake. It is really the only reason for me not to use tie plates on my layout. Still, that said, what do you think a mold and materials might cost to make 100 tie plates? I'm laying a class 1 main line, using 15 ties per foot. This uses all 100 plates in a mere 3.33 feet of track. I would need 300 sets of 100 plates for a 1000 ft run of single track!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I'm going allot farther than a 1000 ft of track...... :~} And laying double track also, on top of the distance. Do you care to become a class 1 main line supporter, and run 100 plus car trains here?!! 

I'm pretty much going on the idea that visitors will be way too excited and busy watching long trains running to notice or worry about missing tie plates on the track.. 

Good luck with school, keep studying hard and get good grades! Life requires this for a job anymore.... 
Dirk - DMS Ry.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

72' scale from the tip of the frog to the tip of the points for a #9 turnout. As for turnout tie plates I'm planning on making my own out of styrene. Build up a couple of layers and then slowly, ever slowly file them to a file shape. As for a mold cost, I'm not sure, but it would be easy to figure out once you figure out the volume of resin required. 
What I'm kind of thinking is I might have sections of highly detailed track, but in between 'towns' or focal points go back to not using tie plates. Everything is kind of up in the air right now, but I do know that I will take the approach similar to Richard Smith by building everything in sections that way I don't get overwhelmed with track, then structures, etc. 
See my thread ('research of historical buildings' is the thread title) about my building I'm working on too (put on temp. hold now  for school) to see how big I'm planning my structures... 

*I wish I wasn't so cheap when I working for BNSF I could have stocked up on more trains, but then I wouldn't have had a life/wife at all!  The reason behind me going back to school to get my MA!

Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm guessing you have a plan/drawing of a #9 Switch?!! I have about 76 feet points tip to frog tip. You may not have considered one thought in using a standard gauge drawing for our use in 45 mm track work. I enlarge the drawing based on the 45mm track spacing, not 56.5 inches as it actually is, and drawn to! This way you have a direct plan of the size needed for 45 mm use, which invariably changes all those dimensions which are on the plan. But your left with a plan to measure from and get the new dimensions to build by for your needs! Do not try to build a switch from those dimensions!! Your life will get real exciting if you do!! :-} 

My primary focus is towards lots of track for the next several years. I'm sure there will be speed bumps and diversions along the way in building a layout, anyway. But I want enough to run on and create momentum to push the process forward over the next several years. I also look forward to a train shed for storage, maybe next year even. This would help immensely! 

I also considered not detailing every inch of track while out watering today. But what I also considered was this, will or can a resin plate be produced for maybe 2-3 cents per? And will resin tolerate the summer heat build up from rail, and not get soft - allowing rails to "sink" into the plates!?? 

If these both came up with good solutions , then maybe I would be in a better position to consider adding tie plates to the layout!! Lots of work, but it is also cool to see long trains run on open track work, then your not even looking at the ties or plates!! :-} 

Thanks, 
Dirk - DMS Ry.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 18 Oct 2011 05:33 PM 
I'm guessing you have a plan/drawing of a #9 Switch?!! I have about 76 feet points tip to frog tip. You may not have considered one thought in using a standard gauge drawing for our use in 45 mm track work. I enlarge the drawing based on the 45mm track spacing, not 56.5 inches as it actually is, and drawn to! This way you have a direct plan of the size needed for 45 mm use, which invariably changes all those dimensions which are on the plan. But your left with a plan to measure from and get the new dimensions to build by for your needs! Do not try to build a switch from those dimensions!! Your life will get real exciting if you do!! :-} 

My primary focus is towards lots of track for the next several years. I'm sure there will be speed bumps and diversions along the way in building a layout, anyway. But I want enough to run on and create momentum to push the process forward over the next several years. I also look forward to a train shed for storage, maybe next year even. This would help immensely! 

I also considered not detailing every inch of track while out watering today. But what I also considered was this, will or can a resin plate be produced for maybe 2-3 cents per? And will resin tolerate the summer heat build up from rail, and not get soft - allowing rails to "sink" into the plates!?? 

If these both came up with good solutions , then maybe I would be in a better position to consider adding tie plates to the layout!! Lots of work, but it is also cool to see long trains run on open track work, then your not even looking at the ties or plates!! :-} 

Thanks, 
Dirk - DMS Ry. 



Being no expert I can't say for sure that resin will last, but I do recall the 'master' resin maker Burl Rice saying that he cast his own frogs (I don't know about points) and has had them outside for something like 5 years with no problems. I don't remember the specific thread it's in, but sending him an email might get a concrete answer. He said along as you pained the resin casting it was UV stable. I think the resin that I was using (based from Burl's article in GR) had a melting point upwards of 200 degrees. A little web surfing would get a concrete answer once again, but I'm being lazy!Yes I did had access to all the engineering drawings from BNSF when I worked for them. A simple web surf one day at work found me on the internal engineering page. A quick access at home to download everything and I was set. But I think the NP historical society also has former NP & GN? engineering drawings online. I'm using NP standard plans for a #9 turnout with 16' 6" points and 39' sections of rail. I have it blown up right next to me in fact! I enlarged it to 45mm but I think I'm going to try and keep the original measurements as much as possible. My theory and thinking that the only thing that changes is the track gauge so the track pieces and lengths should work, I don't see why not? I have all the ties cut right now, and am waiting for my styrene to come so I can cut rail. I would like to actually use 39' sections but I don't know how strong the joints will be with .100 x .030 styrene as joiners so I'm going to experiment before I commit myself.Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Craig, 

I think I like your thinking. However, if you have your plan already sized to 45mm, your done. You can measure "off your drawing" to get your needed rail lengths. When the drawing was enlarged - but only to 45mm - it was distorted in respect to accuracy length wise, so now the drawn dimensions are not effective for our use to build a model from. I'm also assuming you enlarged the drawing by dragging from a corner "only", or a copy company like Kinko's where it will be a uniform enlargement overall. You will be able to follow the rail only based on your drawing. You will need to go back and scale on the drawing your G-scale size, 1/29 or which ever your going by, measure everything in that respect. Figure your tie needs not by the drawing, but by how many ties "you" want to run on a per foot basis. Like I said, I'm using 15 ties for a class one line here, ( should be 16 tho ). Then you will know what you are doing, how many ties, plates, figure out your 39' foot rail positions, etc!! Your points and frog however do not move on the drawing. 

Hope this helps clarify what happened on your drawing!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


----------



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I enlarged it at a box office store so I'm assuming everything got increased correctly but you're right I only increased it to 45mm. I'm using the plan more for general information rather then an over view to build on. For example the frog is 16' from the wing rail to stock rail something that isn't 'scaled' correctly on the plan. For the frog I'm using just the frog plan (a totally different set of plans for every component of the turnout). Does this make since? 
Craig


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Craig, 

I would enjoy visiting more with you regarding your ideas and plans for your subdivision. Would you consider sending me your off-site e address and we could proceed further with our addictions!? 

Frankly, I did not follow your last sentence, maybe just me, old brain still at work here!! ha.... 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


----------

