# Cost of DCC.



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I have the "HO scale" NCE system, that I bought for my On30 locos..it cost about $150 a few years ago..
really nice system! I like it very much..

I assumed the Large Scale version might be a *little* more expensive..maybe $200 or $250..I dont know what is different about the Large Scale version,
other than it can handle more amps..So tonight I decide to look into it in more detail, since I already like the NCE system, and im considering it for my Large Scale control system..
I read that its best to just skip right over the 5 amp system..if you going to do it at all, might as well go with 10 amps.. 

MSRP of $649?? seriously? is that right? (and that doesnt even include the power supply?) am I missing something?









Scot


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

It's actually pretty cheap if you compare it to other wireless DCC systems that can handle 10 amps and 27 volts if there are any, when I bought mine the next best was only 8 amps

I got my PH10R wireless system for $585 a few years ago, the price has come down since then.

Here is a link to Tony's sight only $545 there NCE PH10-R (click me)

A good regulated 10amp power supply is only $80.

Best decision I have made so far I have no regrets.

Ron


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Now you can see why Revolution and other proprietary non DCC radio systems become attractive to Large Scalers.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott....just remember that the $700 you spend to get the 10 Amp DCC command station and power supply is the same you spend to buy 6 of the G-Wire receivers...or six of the Airwire RX's...plus decoder/sound board you'll need anyway. Six engines seems to be the crossover cost point. With DCC...it's just more up front.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You spend your money one time on your system... it's the cost per loco you need to focus on, thats where you see the real cost in a system, unless you only have one or two locos. 

You can buy cheaper systems too, you are picking one of the top systems out there. 

Also, list price means nothing nowadays, the bachmann K is $1200 list... no one pays list. 

Yes, buy the 10 amp system. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 26 Feb 2011 10:12 PM 
Now you can see why Revolution and other proprietary non DCC radio systems become attractive to Large Scalers. 

OH NO YOU DIDN"T








Man do you know how to start a flame war







.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This is a DCC forum, and a DCC topic, "spoiler" battery posts and non DCC posts are just as welcome here as track power posts in the battery forum. 

Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 26 Feb 2011 10:12 PM 
Now you can see why Revolution and other proprietary non DCC radio systems become attractive to Large Scalers. 



























Of course i kid cause 


I really do care


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Touchy!!! 
I didn't mention battery power. So don't y'all get your knickers in a twist. Revo runs on track power. At least it is supposed to. 

I was merely saying, that because of the high upfront cost of worthwhile DCC systems, The Revo looks to be an attractive proposition. Certainly to newcomers.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony 

I agree. 

I think it would be interesting to have a side by side comparision of the revolution and a DCC system, and perhaps your system as well. 

Use street price and include instalation cost. For this case Scott says he has an HO scale NCE system. To do the compariison we would need to know which one. From the cost I would assume the power pro which likely does not have a lot of usable parts. (likely only the non wireless throttle) 

Lets also assume for this an Aristo locomotive with a socket and do the comparision for converting 5 locomotives with 3 operators. 

Stan


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Stanley. 
I am not advocating REVOLUTION (or any other systems) over DCC. 
My observation was that many newcomers to DCC are put off by the high cost of setting up a worthwhile track powered DCC system and look to REVOLUTION as a lower cost alternative. Not everybody wants built in sound. 

As to side by side comparisons. 
Having a side by side comparison of the REVOLUTION and DCC using only track power would be valid and should be very interesting. 
At present the RCS system is not really intended for use with track power, so any meaningful comparison with track powered DCC or REVOLUTION is not really possible. This may change in the future. If it does change I will certainly be willing to participate. 

I would definitely be happy with an immediate side by side comparison of through the air, battery powered R/C. DCC, REVOLUTION, RCS & any other similar system such as Locolinc. 
To be fair I think that should be split into two comparisons.
1. Basic speed, direction and lighting controls. (Not everyone wants sound so cost savings can be made by omitting sound).
2. Speed, direction & lights plus sound and other special effects.

Five locos and three operators sounds like a fairly typical operator arrangement to me.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I have been selling quite a few ho decoders for $19.99. They have been going in speeders, handcars, and many other small locomotives. Will fit in most any thing. 1.5 amp running 2 amp stall current.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It would be extremely hard to make a meaningful side by side comparison of the REVO and DCC, because while there's a real cost involved in choosing a proprietary system, it's hard to quantify it. For example, Apple computer runs a proprietary system. There's a real cost in choosing Apple: some software won't run. But it's hard to quantify that cost. I've always foudn it worthwhiel but it's frustrating that I can't run some software. 

Aristo is the sole provider of the REVO. If they have parts problems, as they recently had, or decide to discontinue or change the system in a major way, users who bought the earlier system are stuck. This may or may not be a big deal: manufacturers are entitled to make their own decisions about changing to keep up with the times. Customers may or may not care about Aristo being proprietary. For me if was a fairly big deal, having invested a good bit in a system Aristo discontinued. 

Lately QSI Decoders have been out of stock. But there are at least 4 manufacturers selling sound decoders or sound/motor combinations of roughly equal quality and cost. The are several more offering lower quality sound for less. That's a significant advantage for DCC, in my opinion. 

It's true the initial startup costs are high. But once you make that investment, you can buy a motor-only, high amperage large scale decoder for about $40. Hard to beat that.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Two points,
1) The Apple myth, Apples are the most over priced computers on the market usually costing 3-4x's are comparable PC. 
It's amazing what a marketing scheme will do for a product. 
I love how they always compare their product to base PC systems and gush about how much better their's are,
while conveniently leaving out the fact that their machine costs 3-4x as much








Not to mention the fact that they are so far behind on the tech front its not even funny,
I hear they just announced the "New" Mac Pro with blazing fast "New" 5870 Radeon graphics card and "New"SSD drive technology. 
LOL Yeah Right, it was new 2 years ago when I installed them in my PC







ok ok let me take a breath and calm down, sorry for the rant just a Big peeve of mine









2) The Revo is not a good choice for track power at all as it tends to reset itself a lot, the compacitor board they built to try and correct that problem doesn't seem to be able to, which is the main reason that they are pushing battery power so hard with that system.

Ron


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I have 2 Revos, and like the plug and play simplicity of it, but when used to the Airwire, its functions are limited! I like being able to control the sounds, sound volume from the handset. Revo without an axillary board 3-4 sounds. But with the Revo, you can connect the volume switch like the old standard way of doing it. 
Fiddling with the CV's has never been of high priority..unless if is for changing speed steps, or lighting voltages. 


I like the LGB MTS I use it for either track power or battey power and both work flawlessly! Hard part is fitting the central station inside either a tender or car...but have 4 set up this way.
I just purchased some gen 2 "P" MTS pieces on Ebay pretty reasonable!

The new G2 is great! The newer drop ins are a little more expensive then I would like to spend having to drop in on in each engine, I like using a trailing battery car..way more cost effective.

Anyway you go the Revo sounds a little cheaper, adding sound would still be a little cheaper! 4 Airwire Boards $576+ T1000 $200+ 4 Phoenix $840=APPROX $1,600,, all prices are approximate. Don't forget the batteries!









Bottom line this is not a cheap hobby! maybe buying used when you can find it is a better way to go. 

I am a "end user", not as versed as most of the frequenters that post here BUT I am like the average people that buy this stuff. I know what works for me and what doesn't! 
And MOST importantly I know what I like and do not like!

I don't push any systems on to anyone, if asked I tell them what I like and use, but always tell them why! If they want to get into battery power I suggest the most simple...Aristo TE to get their feet wet, because cost is ALWAYS a factor! Then when they get to fully understand they can make the dicision to jump in the deep end of the pool with knowing how to swin, at least dog paddle!

IMHO

Bubba


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting..thanks everyone. 
Has anyone ever put together (or seen online anywhere) a chart that lists the costs of the various systems, listing the system itself, 
then cost per locomotive for the receivers? im just curious.. 

based on this thread, I think I have found the system I am going to use to get my railroad up and running..and use at least for a few years!  










(im not even kidding! I will probably use that for my track powered loop..find a used system for $50 or so..maybe less these days) 

Scot


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

MSRP of $649?? seriously? is that right? (and that doesnt even include the power supply?) am I missing something?










Scott, I had the exact same reaction in the fall, when I was trying to budget for my first build (this spring). Bout had a heart attack. But once I bit, the pro's so outweighed the cons that I chose to forgo a couple of switches to make up the diff in control approaches. (I was particularly enamored with the potential of computer control, and customizing things with each loco.)

Since then though, in my spreadsheet at least, I found that the minimized wiring, switches, boxes, conduit, etc. (associated with my erstwhile method) easily saved me the cost of that delta. 

Now, however, I've fallen in love with the audio aspects, and it's the price of decent sound cards (and hi-amp main decoders, for that matter) that are the sticking point for me. I'll have to go slow, in those conversions. 

Anyway, you know all about the benefits of DCC already, so nothing I'm saying is news to you. Just wanted to say that I'm feeling your pain!

Regards,
Cliff


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 26 Feb 2011 09:27 PM 
I have the "HO scale" NCE system, that I bought for my On30 locos..it cost about $150 a few years ago..
really nice system! I like it very much..

I assumed the Large Scale version might be a *little* more expensive..maybe $200 or $250..I dont know what is different about the Large Scale version,
other than it can handle more amps..So tonight I decide to look into it in more detail, since I already like the NCE system, and im considering it for my Large Scale control system..
I read that its best to just skip right over the 5 amp system..if you going to do it at all, might as well go with 10 amps.. 

MSRP of $649?? seriously? is that right? (and that doesnt even include the power supply?) am I missing something?









Scot 


I'm using the 5 AMP system, and realistically, it does what I want it to do. I bought the basic 2 amp system, then added the 5AMP Smart Booster. I'm using an old laptop power assembly for the power supply (4.9A at 18VDC). I would think that the only thing you would have to add to your "HO Scale" NCE system would be the 10 Amp Command Station and power supply?


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

When you say "HO Scale" version of the NCE, could you enlighten us to the exact model of the NCE that you have? Is it the power cab or the pro cab? By HO scale do you mean that it is limited to a specific current range? I recently picked up a NCE pro cab setup that has the 5A booster with it (that came from a HO user) and I have been able to use it for many of my engines so far. I agree with Greg the 10A is better overall but i fyou have the right NCE system you can simply add the 10A booster and power supply for about $270-$300 (street price).


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

The PowerCab will function as a ProCab when plugged into a 10AMP Command Station. I just looked that up on the web... 

Thanks! Robert


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rreiffer on 27 Feb 2011 01:39 PM 
When you say "HO Scale" version of the NCE, could you enlighten us to the exact model of the NCE that you have? Is it the power cab or the pro cab? By HO scale do you mean that it is limited to a specific current range? I recently picked up a NCE pro cab setup that has the 5A booster with it (that came from a HO user) and I have been able to use it for many of my engines so far. I agree with Greg the 10A is better overall but i fyou have the right NCE system you can simply add the 10A booster and power supply for about $270-$300 (street price). 




This one:

NCE Power Cab 

I dont think any of that system is useful for Large Scale..
2 amps, and the "corded" controller..I dont see any reasonable way any of that system can be adapted for Large Scale?

im probably going to sell it..



thanks,
Scot


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Call NCE and ask them! They have generally been very helpful; when I called. There's also an NCE users group on Yahoo groups. 

For w2hat it's woerth, he'ree one examle of why proprietary systems are a problem

http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulletinforums/showthread.php?t=17216


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 27 Feb 2011 02:13 PM 
Call NCE and ask them! They have generally been very helpful; when I called. T




Actually, I can do better than that..I can drop by NCE and ask them in person! 
I might do that..

Scot


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Scot, 
I would not be too hasty to get rid of the NCE Cab. Call NCE tomorrow (they are great folks and are more than willing to help). For example I found out that I can send in my Pro Cab's and they will upgrade them to wireless (for not too bad of a fee). They will answer your questions about how this unit can be used with the 10A system and if they can upgrade it or not. I just moved off the the Aristocraft Train engineer (the old 27MHz stuff). Nothing wrong with it to control the basic speed of a single engine per loop (or like some folks do, put them in box cars and put them on a per engine basis - not too bad of a way if you have only so many engines. Once having played with DCC and the many options (sound especially) it would be hard to go back!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 27 Feb 2011 02:10 PM 
Posted By rreiffer on 27 Feb 2011 01:39 PM 
When you say "HO Scale" version of the NCE, could you enlighten us to the exact model of the NCE that you have? Is it the power cab or the pro cab? By HO scale do you mean that it is limited to a specific current range? I recently picked up a NCE pro cab setup that has the 5A booster with it (that came from a HO user) and I have been able to use it for many of my engines so far. I agree with Greg the 10A is better overall but i fyou have the right NCE system you can simply add the 10A booster and power supply for about $270-$300 (street price). 




This one:

NCE Power Cab 

I dont think any of that system is useful for Large Scale..
2 amps, and the "corded" controller..I dont see any reasonable way any of that system can be adapted for Large Scale?

im probably going to sell it..



thanks,
Scot 



Ummm, you may have missed my post earlier, but you can simply add the 10A command center. If you have the Power Cab, it will work just like a Pro Cab, you just ahve to use the other cable. Or, you can add the SB5 Smart Booster and get 5A out of it...

Thanks! Robert


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I was merely saying, that because of the high upfront cost of worthwhile DCC systems, The Revo looks to be an attractive proposition. Certainly to newcomers. Indeed, being a newcomer, I was definitely leaning toward that solution last fall. Just wanting to affirm your point, Tony. 

But thanks to the help I've had in this great forum, I learned about the many additional issues that I would or might face or be interested in; hence, after much instruction (for my particular situation), I'm definitely going with track power / DCC.

===Cliff


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 27 Feb 2011 03:12 PM 
Posted By Scottychaos on 27 Feb 2011 02:10 PM 
Posted By rreiffer on 27 Feb 2011 01:39 PM 
When you say "HO Scale" version of the NCE, could you enlighten us to the exact model of the NCE that you have? Is it the power cab or the pro cab? By HO scale do you mean that it is limited to a specific current range? I recently picked up a NCE pro cab setup that has the 5A booster with it (that came from a HO user) and I have been able to use it for many of my engines so far. I agree with Greg the 10A is better overall but i fyou have the right NCE system you can simply add the 10A booster and power supply for about $270-$300 (street price). 




This one:

NCE Power Cab 

I dont think any of that system is useful for Large Scale..
2 amps, and the "corded" controller..I dont see any reasonable way any of that system can be adapted for Large Scale?

im probably going to sell it..



thanks,
Scot 



Ummm, you may have missed my post earlier, but you can simply add the 10A command center. If you have the Power Cab, it will work just like a Pro Cab, you just ahve to use the other cable. Or, you can add the SB5 Smart Booster and get 5A out of it...

Thanks! Robert




Thanks Robert!
I guess I did miss that..

So if im understanding this all correctly, My current "NCE Power Cab" could in fact work with Large Scale, with the addition of two more components:

1. The "10A command center"
2. A suitable power supply, preferably a 10amp power supply..

Is that correct?

What would happen if I used a 15amp power supply? such as the Crest 15amp power supply?

(I might have a lead on one of those..) 


And, is the "10A command center" the same thing as the "NCE PB110 Power Booster"? 
I tried googling NCE 10A command center, but nothing comes up.. 


thanks!
Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

should be 10 amp BOOSTER, the PB110, not a lot of bucks. (there are 2 parts, the "command station" which is the brains, and the booster, which boosts the volts and amps for the rails) 

The wired throttles will still work, and you can have the radio module added instead of buying a new throttle. 

Of all the power supplies, don't use the Everest 15 amp, it has a weird problem that it shuts down on heavy inrush... well., just take my word, it's the only supply Aristo makes that is not suitable, Leonard Kerns and I both got beta units, both had them shut themselves off all the time on our DCC systems, the "factory fix" did not work either, I gave mine away. 

The "Elite" would be fine. 

Tell me exactly what hardware you have, all NCE stuff has model numbers... 

Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 27 Feb 2011 05:48 PM 


Tell me exactly what hardware you have, all NCE stuff has model numbers... 

Greg 




Greg,
a label on the end of the box says:

Power Cab
DCC System
(then a bar code, and under the bar code is)
524025

The owners manual is:
Power Cab, System Reference Manual
Rev. 1.28
Also inside the owners manual it says: 

System Reference Manual
for Power Cab
V 1.28
copyright 2007. 



There are three parts to the system:
1. the power cab
2. the "power panel"
3. NCE P114 power supply (13.5VDC Regulated) 


thats everything I can find! 

thanks,
Scot


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

The biggest issue of DCC is the upfront cost. Yeah, $600+ is normal even without the power supply. The biggest single chunk of the cost is for the radio gear, but you ONLY BUY THAT ONCE. The next biggest piece is a high current booster. The rest of it is the cost of an HO DCC system (command station, basic throttle) and those sometimes don't come with power supplies either. 

Once the initial investment is made (a big swallow) then the incremental cost is lower than anything but straight up track power..


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Scot, that is the same exact setup I have. I can doublehead my K's with the SB3a at 5 amps. You should be able to expand to 10 amps and still use absolutely everything in your set. I use the little power supply and panel for programming, and then plug the PowerCab into the SB3a to run on the mainline. 

If you decide to go with the 10Amp, the SB3a can also be used as a booster for return loops, wyes, etc. The NCE system is designed to be expandable without throwing anything away. 

The PowerCab you have will function exactly the same as ProCab in the 10A system, so you don't need to buy that part. 

Greg can give you a much better explanation, I'm still new at this myself, and flailing in the dark a little bit here. 

Thanks! Robert


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

George, I agree that the upfront cost is the biggest issue. I was lucky to pick up a dual cab NCE with the 5A booster for a very reasonable price. With the number of engines I have (25+) it is much cheaper to go DCC based upon the numbers of loco's. I looked very closely at the Revolution and while being a very nice system would cost me a lot more by the time I implemented it with the number of engines I have running. I can buy basic decoders to run the small stuff for $20 while the higher amperage is around $50. If I add sound, well that's another story but that applies to any of the systems I have seen. So far the NCE DCC system seems to be great and I do not have to rely on one vendor's product (which to me is the biggest value).


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Scot, I have the a power cab with the standard panel and standard power supply. 

I also have a 10 amp radio system. 

I have 4 cabs, 1 normal procab, 1 powercab, and 2 radio cabs. 

I experimented the other day on my powercab system, and plugged a radio base station into the other socket in the panel (power cab was in already of course). I was able to run a wireless throttle that way. 

You did buy a very cost effective version of the NCE system, and to step up to a 10 amp system, you will need to get the command station and booster. I use the Powercab setup for my Z scale. 

You can also have a radio module added to your powercab. 

Lots of options. 

Regards, Greg


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