# Total Newbie Resources



## vsmall (Feb 9, 2014)

I am brand new to model railroading in any gauge. I'm getting so overwhelmed searching the internet for information. Is there a Garden Railway "bible"? I'm trying to figure out what makes an interesting layout. The parameters my partner has given me are that he wants to run the biggest 1:29 cars available, he wants 14' radius minimum curves, a yard, a few industries, and switching (that's his favourite part), battery power and modern era. We have 60'x40'ish cleared yard for the layout. I want something interesting to watch while he operates. The trains will be prototypical but the track doesn't have to be.

2 questions for now 
1. What is your "go-to" resource? 
2. What are the elements of a good layout? 

Any help is appreciated
Virginia 

I should add that my partner is very knowledgeable about HO-scale.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You are asking a lot in two short questions.
Question 1 , GARDEN RAILWAYS magazine is a good resource, a local group is an invaluable resource. We can help, but we can't offer one to one communication, which as beginners is very important, in my opinion.
Question 2, what ever appeals to you. Visit local layouts and see what appeals to you. 
Where do you live? There is most likely a local club nearby.
Chuck


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

1. What is your "go-to" resource? 

Two places you should spend a lot of time:
1. mylargescale.com..you are already here! 
2. subscribe to Garden Railways magazine.

Those have been my main two sources for info for 10 years now! cant go wrong..

2. What are the elements of a good layout? 

well, thats a question that no one can answer for you..
its waaaaaaaaaay subjective! 
the only real answer is "whatever you like"..

although, there are plenty of opinions..
my opinion: "less is more" when it comes to track planning..
I feel some people try to cram way too much track into the available space, and it ends up looking far too busy and messy..
but some people like that!  which is fine for them..personally, I like less track and more landscaping..looks more "natural" to me that way..
When it comes to model railroading, I like this:










much more than this:










Neither of those photos are "Large Scale"..but that doesn't matter..
those two different schools of thought do translate to a garden railroad..
nothing "wrong" with either one of course..but its good to begin thinking of a "style" before you start building..

The parameters my partner has given me are that he wants to run the biggest 1:29 cars available, he wants 14' radius minimum curves, a yard, a few industries, and switching (that's his favourite part), battery power and modern era. We have 60'x40'ish cleared yard for the layout.

That's a great start! The most important thing you said was "14' radius minimum curves"..keep those curves as wide as humanly possible! especially for the type of trains you want to run..
I'd say you are off to a good start!  good thinking so far..

Scot


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Is there a Garden Railway "bible"? 
No, but there are a few books that cover the basics. (Magazines are OK, but you may have to read quite a few issues before you get all the info you need.) 
One of our brethren, Kevin Strong (Mr East Broad Top) wrote a book "Garden Railway Basics" which is available on Amazon and is undoubtedly full of good advice. [I haven't read it 'cos I've been reading Kevin's advice for many years.] 
Another good guy, Alan Miller, polled us for photos and inspiration when he wrote his "Getting Started in Garden Railroading" several years ago. I note that Google Play is now offering the book, so it must be back in print? Maybe not - maybe its an e-book? Either way, you can read it and perhaps you should. (If you hang around here, you'll recognize several names credited in Alan's book.) 

I'm trying to figure out what makes an interesting layout 
As someone said above, that's a tough one. Some of us like to sit and enjoy a beverage while watching the trains go by. Others want to participate, and spend hours making up trains and sending them to specific places, pretending to run a real railroad. Some railroads are loops and the trains go round and round. Others are point-to-point (Kevin's is a good example) and the trains go from A to B and then stop before going back from B to A - just like the real thing. 

The good news is that you can always change your layout when you decide what you find "interesting". GR Magazine can help there, as it will have lots of photos of other people's garden railways, so you can decide what features you want: a pond, a huge bridge ,a trestle, a big station, etc., etc. 
If you are near a big city, see if the library gets Garden Railways and go look at the photos in a few back-issues.


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

One web based resource is the following web site: 
http://www.btcomm.com/trains/ 

Large number of pages when you scroll down to the middle with headings for many getting started issues 
And like others have said, these are someones opinions, but you should have fun reading them 

Regards 

Jerry


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## vsmall (Feb 9, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. We have a subscription to Garden Railways. We also have the garden Railway basics. So it looks like I'm off to a good start. I live in rural Ontario. Peter's HO club is near Guelph close to John at Winona Garden Rail. I think there is one maybe two layout within an hour of us. Currently everything around here is under 4' of snow. 

I should rephrase my question about what makes a good layout. And turn it into "what should I not do?" Are there basic no nos? Are there things trains can't do?


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Welcome! 

I mentioned the following the recent Another newbie thread which you may also find of interest besides any of the responses to this thread.

You may also want to watch the Mark Found video series mentioned by Vance Bass in the current Garden Railway magazine. Even though it's British it is really well done and covers many basic aspects of the hobby.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Things not to do:

Steep grades, try to keep them to less than 4%. 2% is better.

Tight curves. Go with the largest diameter that will fit into your space. Everything will look and run better. Tight curves, less than 8' diameter, limit your choices of rolling stock and engines. I have 10' diameter and wish I had gone larger when I built my layout.

Steep grades and tight curves together are asking for trouble.

If you put in passing sidings, make them twice as long as you think you will need. I have had to lengthen mine twice. Trains seem to grow longer in the garden.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Welcome, Virginia. 

In addition to the technical preferences, as I'm sure you know, there's things like era, industrial theme, region / terrain, etc. to play with, and they can impact the planning. For example, if one has a preference for logging, mining, ports, or just "regular" industry, that can have a big impact on terrain. Another example, modern high speed (especially passenger) service requires larger radii, while (say) narrow gauge short lines can be twisted into tight knots (comparatively) -- with steeper grades perhaps. 

So feel free to tell us about the "story" you'd like your railroad to convey, because it might affect the conversation. 

Cliff


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## vsmall (Feb 9, 2014)

I'll check out the video series. Thanks


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you haven't yet, be sure to get in touch with the *Central Ontario Garden Railway Association.* It's been a while since I had any regular correspondence with them (we used to share newsletter tidbits when I was editor of the Rochester NY club's newsletter back in the late 90s), but they've always seemed to have a thriving and very friendly membership. 

The most important thing (and I mention this in my book) is to get out and see as many different railroads as you can, so you can get a feel for what you want to accomplish in the garden. If I recall, COGRA does (or did) regular tours every summer. Depending on how close you are to the border, there are also active groups in western NY that likewise have summer tours. 

From what you've described so far, it sounds like you've got the "wide curves and minor grades" thing pretty much taken care of. Those are pretty much the two "big" ones. Pretty much everything else has more to do with personal preference in terms of aesthetics and how you want to interact with and control your trains. These are things newcomers coming to the hobby really can't grasp unless they experience them firsthand. With a background in HO, you at least have something of a grasp on track plans, though indoor track plans seldom translate all that well outdoors. I think there's something about being outdoors that makes the more "spaghetti" style track plans common to indoors look like there's just too much track. 

Good luck, and ask away. 

Later, 

K


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## vsmall (Feb 9, 2014)

Thanks a bunch. We found a website for the Ottawa Garden Rail Society and they have open sessions Jun-Oct. I'll contact COGRA I think they're a bit closer. I can't wait for the snow to melt (all 36" of it), all this planning and thinking is making me impatient.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

from a purely practical aspect, 

What scenes to you both have in your heads for your layout? 
since you have chosen 14' radius and long cars - Autoracks 91' - 37'' - 
what about switches/turnouts - store bought up to no.6, or custom no. 8 or 10..? 
power means for the locos, Track/DCC or Battery/RC? 
Your 'purpose' for the rail traffic will help you decide. 
Your layouts 'local' or city / town / rural setting will play in this choice.... 
Track choices, Brass / Nickel S / SS / Aluminum .... 

Many things go together, some are contradictions here... but answering and choosing priorities will help you reach your design goals... 

Wander thru the layout threads here on MLS, and see what others have built or are building currently. You don't need to wait fer the snow to melt... 
But take your time, that will help ''not make mistakes'' when building a layout.... 

Figure out what you both can live with and REALLY want to see and enjoy in your yard!! 
Will it be impressive for the neighbors, learn the tricks that help designs look even better...slight of hand here - you bet!!!!! a bit of magic never hurt a layout.... 

HAVE FUN, Dirk - DMS Ry. & DMRR


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

And lastly,........ 

WELCOME to MLS, both of you!!!! 

Dirk


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

vsmall, 

Welcome to the forum. First, let me say that all the advice you have been given has been good sound advice, howerver ..... Once you start your journey in this hobby, no matter how much planning and figgerin' you do, I assure you, you will sooner or later find the things you wish you would have done. Do not get overly concerned over it. The club I joined 6 or 7 years ago didn't start laying track until after I joined found things we shoulda' done after we were running for a while. The more up front planning you do, the smaller these bumps will be. I, like others, could spend hours giving you advice that may or may not really suit your circumstances. The only advice I will give, above what has already been given, would be to spend some time with either a pencil and graph pad or computer and software and design a few different layouts for your yard area. The more times you put something to paper, the closer you will zero in on the layout you will most likely be happiest with. 

Best of luck. 

Bob C.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

MyLargeScale is my primary learning resource, as well as manufactures sites and going to shows. Large scale presents challenges not present in the smaller scales, especially the incompatibility of much of the products, and probably the need to use many companies' products. 

A "good" railway is one you're happy with. Mine is still on the floor while I ponder my next steps. I do recommend some time spent considering your longer term objectives, so you don't get stuck having to replace or redo some initial purchases.


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## vsmall (Feb 9, 2014)

Everyone has been so helpful. I'm looking forward to grabbing a garden hose and laying ideas out on the grass. My spatial reasoning is not all that great. Drawing and designing in the computer is helpful, but challenging. 
We have answered most of the questions that SD90WLMT posed. Purpose is where we're struggling. I agree figuring that out will go a long way towards design. 

I realize there will be bumps in the road (or track as it may be.) but I come from a programming background which teaches you to plan and anticipate before writing the code. We want to elevate the rail so I'd like to get that part right the first time.


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## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi guys, 

I'm new here, like you and come from HO, many years back. I found this community very helpful and I also stumbled across this site: http://familygardentrains.com/primer/index.htm with lots of useful info. 

Cheers, 
Peter.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Virginia - 

I suspect most of the folks who've added their ideas so far have been in the hobby longer than I. Although I had experience in HO back in the 70s and 80s, I just started in large scale in 2009, with a simple loop around a large flower bed. That encouraged me to attempt some of my wilder ideas. So far so good (or at least I like what I've done). That's the big thing - as long as you like it, it's good. 

Frankly, my main source of information has been this website. Magazines seemed to focus on mining and lumber railroads of old while I identify with modern life in the US so I don't subscribe. I know there's still a lot of information there, but just not what I'm looking for.To each his own. 

I'm a bit of a lone-wolf. When I started out, I was looking for garden railroads I could visit, to get an idea if I really wanted to invest my time and money. Not interested in going to meetings. So, on free weekends, I'd drive 75 miles to visit open houses - operating garden railroads where I could see how it's done and get ideas of what people do. And what I might be able to do. This distant club posted a list of railraods I could visit almost every weekend, all summer long. No invitation needed, no appointment. That's what encouraged me to start my inaugural flowerbed loop. My limited railroad time is spent doing active railroad things: working, building, thinking, planning, researching. Now I have over 500 feet of track running around the house and I'm saving my pennies for another 500. 

Do it your own way. That's the best way. 

JackM


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So - stumped on Purpose eh!!! 

What will your railroad haul... 

raw materials 
finished products 

will it be the origin of those materials? 
Will it be the end point - for distribution? 
of maybe just the middle - the trip from A to Z... 

Will you run full cars and empties in both directions? 

One product, Two, three - more...? 

How much real in appearances. ? 

some fantasy to spice it up!!! 

Keep break'n it down into manageable pieces...!! 

Have Fun with this portion of the process BTW!! it will set a theme for the layout and hence the "Purpose"... 

You'll figure it out yet!! 

Dirk - need more help, ask here... lots of us will have a big variety of ideas!!!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Then again, .. 

Are you running a BIG mainline RR? 
A small short line.. 
An interchange service, between other major roads 

One near here only provides service to one customer! And does only yard work!! .....has three or four yards to work out of - in different locals, yet UP RR moves cars between those points.. would be very interesting to model, I may add it on My layout, as it would fit right in!!!!! 

Dirk- DMRR


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have have been around long enough to have trains in four different scales. I started out in the early 80s with LGB European, that was all there was(1:22.5). As time progressed they came out with American, Colorado, narrow gauge (by my calculations close to 1:24). Later LGB, Aristo and USAt came out with American/Canadian standard gauge cars (1:29). I liked them all. Then came Fn3 with Accucraft and Bachmann in 1:20.3 and excellent kits by Sheridan products and Phil's Narrow Gauge. The result after 30 plus years I run all scales, but not at the same time. I consider my layout to be a railroad museum with a eclectic collection of rolling stock. In addition to being a museum RR, it is a link between two main lines. That permits me to run coal and iron ore standard gauge unit trains along with streamline and heavyweight tourist trains. As a museum and link line I can do what ever I feel like. Start with what you like, but don't hold back if you see something you like in another scale, get it. There is nothing wrong with collecting multiple scales. Over time you too, can have a museum. It is your railroad, get what you like. Over time it will all work out. Chuck


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Virginia, 

Look at the two web sites below, particularly useful as you get more involved with the hobby. 

The Large Scale Trains Page by George Schreyer 
http://www.girr.org/girr/index.html 

Greg's web site (Large Scale Trains "home" page) 
http://www.elmassian.com/trains 

-Ted


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Posted By armorsmith on 12 Feb 2014 06:56 PM 
... The only advice I will give, above what has already been given, would be to spend some time with either a pencil and graph pad or computer and software and design a few different layouts for your yard area. The more times you put something to paper, the closer you will zero in on the layout you will most likely be happiest with. 


among all the good advice, this was the best. specially to use the time until the snow melts. do it on paper. do not throw away any of the plans.
after a while you will see, that the plans become more and more similar, meaning you are aproaching what will suit your preferences best.

and, i don-t know why, but it is a long established fact, that scenery looks better, if it comes in uneven numbers.
3 houses situated together, instead of 2. five trees instead of four... etc.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The landscape guy delivering dirt and rocks for my train site agrees with the "odd number objects" rule and he has been in the business for 30+ years. Trees, rocks, bushes, bird houses, lights, dirt piles, etc seem to look better that way.
And welcome to the hobby.


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