# Problem with decals



## Tom Thornton (Nov 18, 2008)

I painted an Aristo HW RPO and added decals from Shawmut Car Shop. It can out okay till I sprayed the car with dull coat. After the spray dried I could see the decal paper. What did I do wrong? This has been my first time with decals and used sloveset when I put the dals on. Tom Thornton


----------



## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

You need to put the decals on a glossy surface, usually I then spray with a couple of coats of Krylon Crystal Clear gloss, then a couple of coats of Krylon Crystal Clear matte or satin over the entire car.... Krylon is neat because you can respray after about 15 minutes drying time. I believe testors dull cote is not UV resistant..Crystal Clear is.. 
If all else fails, talk to Stan Cedarleaf!


----------



## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

When you apply decals, the finish should be exactly as shiny as the decal paper. If your car had a flat finish, you need to put a gloss or semi gloss finish on the car before you apply the decals. Then, after you apply the decals and they dry, you need to use a decal setting solution. I use Walthers Solvaset. You wet the c=decal surface with the solution but do not try to mess with the decal surface at all or you will destroy the decal. When the decals are dry, then you can put your flat finish on the car.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom: Make sure you trim his decals as cloe to the logo and any lettering. Make sure you let the decal soak long enough to easily slide off the backing. Once the decal is in place take a tissue and gently absorb the excess water and then let dry. Then apply the solve set make sure you get the decals covered completley. Let set for a few minutes than tip the carr to drain any excess off and again use a tissue to get rid of excess. Wait till totally dry then spray with your dull clear. Later RJD


----------



## Tom Thornton (Nov 18, 2008)

I painted the car with ScalcoatII. It looked nice and shinny but I guess not shinny enough. I also used the seting solution. Skould the car be shinny or matte? Thanks for all the help.
Tom Thornton


----------



## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Tom

Those of us who also build scale models (e.g. tanks, planes) know a trick to prevent the haze of decals, also known as silvering. We paint the area to be decaled with Future Floor Polish. Yes, this is an acrylic product that does not yellow, is very glossy, is non-toxic, can be airbrushed, and can be removed with ordinary Windex glass cleaner. Give it a try.


----------



## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

The car should be shiney before decaling.


----------



## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi Tom, 
I use Stan Cedarleafs decals for all of my cars and engines. Starting with a gloss surface, then applying the decal on top. I use a setting solution to get the decals to form down into grooves and over rivets. Then I spray a dull coat (I too like Krylon) over the entire thing once dry. I've applied decals over a semi gloss finish with not bad results, but the best come from a glossy surface. 
Good luck


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Sorry ... Couldn't help myself


----------



## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmmm now that's weird. Scalecoat II dries to a gloss finish which is perfect for decaling. In fact my best results with decals have all come with Scalecoat paint without using a gloss over spray before decaling. After the decals are set, dry etc.. then I use Krylon matte, which also helps hide any lingering decal haze and dulls down the Scalecoat gloss.


You can see the difference in gloss (especially on the catwalk and behind the grab irons) in these photos of a caboose repaint with Scalecoat II right after drying and then with lettering and Krylon matte finish. Granted the lettering used here were dry transfers, but my other projects have mostly been with decals (I just don't have any before and after photos of those).



First with the gloss Scalecoat II:










Then with a Krylon Matte finish to seal the lettering and dull the paint:






















What brand of decals are you using again? It might be the paper used that is the problem. Sometimes the decal paper used for inkjet printers doesn't work as well as other decal paper. Do you know if it is inkjet decal paper? I remember reading that you typically have to seal inkjet decals before applying them. Perhaps this sealer is what is causing the problem...but then again I don't know what type of decal paper was used.


Another thing it might be is the water. I like to use distilled water for decals. With tap water, after a few years the decals may turn yellow/brown. Also with tap water you might notice shiny spots here and there.

As for setting solutions my favorite are by Badger. Their "Set" is nice to work with and I really like their "Softener" too. The softener works great on uneven surfaces, especially wood sided cars. The decals settle right in and look like paint. Here's a quick link I found online to show the Badger set and softener I like to use (first website I found)


Badger Decal Solutions


I hope your project turns out alright.


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt has the idea. Instead of the Scalecoat, I use Krylon Acrylic Crystal Clear gloss or Satin. I've found that the new Krylon Satin works very well for the "base" coat before applying the decal material. 

When the decals have been applied and are completely dry, I coat them with a coat of Satin again the Matte. The Satin will actually attack the clear decal film and melt it into the Satin base coat and you'll have to look very closely to see the edge of the decal. When the matte coat is applied the edges are even harder to see.

If you were to use the vinyl lettering like Del creates, there are no edges except for the lettering and numbers themselves. There's a definate place for each.


----------



## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

He said they came from Shawmut. I got decals from him also. I painted the model with Scalecoat spray cans and decaled right over that. It worked just fine. I have heard that if you spray Scalecoat with an airbrush, the finish will come out flatter than the spray can. I have also used Stan's decals with good luck.


----------



## Greg Stevens (Jan 3, 2008)

Tom,

You say that after applying the decals and using Solvaset you can still see the "decal paper". Do you mean the decal film? Also do you see silvering under the film? If so, you should be able to use a very sharp model knife or scalpel and make small slits in the film, re apply the Solvaset and let it dry. If you can see raised decal film, there isn't much you can do about it as the decal film is very thick. I know that in years past, Champ decals would do this. No matter how well you applied the decals, they always stuck up above the side of the car/loco they were applied to and you could see the film. You can try several coats of the clear spray over the car, but even that might not work. You need thinner decal film. Good luck.


----------



## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

You also need to be using distilled water when soaking your decals. Basic city water usually has minerals in it that are trapped betyeen the decal and whatever it is on. This can make the decal film more visable.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Also when the solveset has completely dried I wash the decals off with distilled water before applying the dull coat. Later RJD


----------



## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 11/26/2008 9:06 PM
Matt has the idea. Instead of the Scalecoat, I use Krylon Acrylic Crystal Clear gloss or Satin. I've found that the new Krylon Satin works very well for the "base" coat before applying the decal material. 

When the decals have been applied and are completely dry, I coat them with a coat of Satin again the Matte. The Satin will actually attack the clear decal film and melt it into the Satin base coat and you'll have to look very closely to see the edge of the decal. When the matte coat is applied the edges are even harder to see.

If you were to use the vinyl lettering like Del creates, there are no edges except for the lettering and numbers themselves. There's a definate place for each.


Hey Stan,
Are you talking about a Krylon Matte? I couldn't find one, only gloss and satin.

Thanks

Matt


----------



## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Matt Vogt on 11/28/2008 12:07 PM 

Hey Stan,
Are you talking about a Krylon Matte? I couldn't find one, only gloss and satin.

Thanks

Matt 



Here's a link to the Krylon Matte finish spray:

Krylon Matte


Sometimes hard to find, but it is out there. I can get it locally in Southern California at Ace Hardware, and in Colorado at Wal-Mart. The UV resistant variety is easier to find.


----------



## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By San Juan on 11/28/2008 5:01 PM

Here's a link to the Krylon Matte finish spray:

Krylon Matte


Sometimes hard to find, but it is out there. I can get it locally in Southern California at Ace Hardware, and in Colorado at Wal-Mart. The UV resistant variety is easier to find.


I should have been more specific. I knew about the Matte finish, but I haven't been able to find it in a UV form online or locally. It doesn't look like the one in the link (#1311) is UV protected, but if you've been using it, maybe it is.


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt n' Matt..... 

Yup, can #1311 is what I've been using for the matte coat. The new Krylon can is called Flat. It works nicely as well but the suppliers in the Prescott area, Tru-Value, Ace Hardware and Wal-Mart still have many cans of 1311.


----------



## Tom Thornton (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks guys for all the help so far. I see one thing I did wrong and that was the water. I used tap water and I know how hard it is. I did use the solveset and it did seem to work right as the decals got down around the details. They looked good till I sprayed the krylon matte finish #1311. That made the clear part of the decal stand out. The krylon also reacted with the scalecoatII too. Never had that before. Tom Thornton


----------



## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Tom
I have used tap water for years to set decals. I have lived in Ohio, Wyoming, Colorado, California, and now Texzas have never experienced a problem with mineral depoits left from tap water. 

The white crust known as lime deposited around faucets is not deposited from a single running of water but rather from hundreds or thousands of times using the faucet. In other words the crust builds up over time since the amount of dissolved Calcium in the tap water is so small that a single use would not leave any discernible deposit visible to your eye. If your tap water could deposit enough lime from a single use to form a visible crust, then your water would be undrinkable.


----------

