# Old Topic ... ASTER VERSUS ACCUCRAFT



## privero (Jan 18, 2008)

Hello everybody: 
I know this has been an ongoing debate, but quite frankly, without experience, I can hardly know the technical differences between one lets say Aster Allighenny or the ipcoming Accucraft Allighenny, or the Aster GS4 and the new Accucraft GS5. I recently bought a T1 Accucraft from Pete Comley. All my other engines I have are Aster, and I am very proud to have found them still in their boxes, never use and RTR, but when I think of the Allighenny, the ASTER one is $25,000.00 usd versus the Accucraft $6900.00 usd. Can you honestly said if you have both in front of you which is which one, or you have to know the technical data of each to know that one is 4 times pricier than the Accucraft. 

Or is ita matter of volume production, different markets for each company, the country where it is produced, quality of the components, etc. I am triyng to get sense of the difference and be sure that the money expend is with a back up. I am sorry to bring this again, but is has never been clear to me, and I see know that Accucraft is bringing to the market many interesting engines, some of which Aster might have produce sometime ago.

Thank you all for your comments,

Best regards,

Patricio Rivero


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Patricio, 

At the risk of re-hashing old issues, there are significant differences between Accucraft and Aster models and experienced modelers can spot them. Then there is the issue of materials used. You can't always see the difference but it shows up quickly in unexpected wear. In a recent thread, Charles showed the excessive wear on a Cab Forward pilot truck. I have yet to say any similar wear on a properly maintained Aster. The old expression "You get what you pay for!" can't be disregarded. Japanese manufacturing is very precise with high quality materials. Much of the cost difference is due to the difference in materials and higher precision manufacturing. 

I don't want to be accused of dissing Accucraft cause I also own several of their wonderful K class mikados. Ii'm proud of these models and delighted with their level of detail and fine operation. But I am aware that wear may prematurely claim some of the parts on these engines. Accucraft is improving their quality, but they still do not have the precision manufacturing that allows fully interchangeable parts and they are still guilty of scrimping on material quality that causes the type of wear seen in Charles' posting. 

So, there are differences that can be seen and quantified -- and they justify many of the price differences. Of course I must admit that $25k for an Aster Allie seems excessive -- not because of Accucraft's proposed Allie price -- but because Aster is working on a Challenger with a target price under $13k! As proposed and under development, the Challenger will have features like operating drain cocks and lights that the Aster Allie didn't have. Of course remember that the Aster Allegheny as factory-built sold for about $21k and not the $25k being asked for now. But the point I'm making still stands. Hope that answers your question. Ross Schlabach


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

So, what is it that we do know about the two offerings of Allies:

Both have-

D valves and Baker valve gear
2x safeties
1x superheater tube
1x hand pump
1x axle pump
1x water glass
1x pressure gauge
1x displacement lubicator
Both have very good customer service
Both are properly detailed with correct dimensions and quality products
Differences-

Boilers: Aster is alcohol fired locomotive boiler (can be coal fired) where as Accucraft is butane (I assume double burners)
Suspension: Aster is equalized springing and Accucraft is unknown. Not sure about bearing types used
Valve gear: Both are Baker with Aster being fully functional allowing of cut-off via reverser screw where as Accucraft is unknown
Steam delivery: Aster uses a flex-telescopic joint and Accucraft (guess- high temp plastic line)
Accessory: Aster has 2 wash out plugs where as Accucraft uses a water drain valve (unclear if that is in tender or on sight glass)
Price: Aster ranging from $16K-25 on the secondary market where as Accucraft around $7K
Aster offers Kit and RTR where as Accucraft RTR only
Parts and services: Aster- more parts readily available where as Accucraft will either replace or attempt to find parts.
Aster is collectible status on secondary market (sold out) where as Accucraft will be new but limited available run
The price is right for the Accucraft offering but I would say, show me the proof with the pilot model performance ( with hopes that all the problems will be worked out prior to release). Even then I would build a locomotive style boiler capable of multi-fuel as I think it to be better than the gas fired OEM boilers.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Check out this website. http://bigboy.sakura.ne.jp/ Click on the Big Boy or Allegheny and you will see why the Asters command such a premium and resale for such a premium. You might also want to clik on the Berkshire and Hudson. All is in Japanese but pictures speak volumes. You can clearly see the quality of parts and things like real articulating steam pipes on the Big Boy and Allegheny. But, there are many other things. Enjoy the link.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is Steve's link : http://bigboy.sakura.ne.jp/ 
click on live steam bar at top


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Aster also supplies a full set of assembly instructions and drawings. VERY helpful for repair and service.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

You can buy a Ford or a Bentley. I will ask you in 10 years which is running the best.


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## privero (Jan 18, 2008)

Thank you Ross, Charles, Steve, Jeff and Dan. Know, I do have a better understanding. 

Regards, 

Patricio


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 21 Jul 2011 10:41 PM 
You can buy a Ford or a Bentley. I will ask you in 10 years which is running the best. 
The Ford of course!
You can't afford to get the Bentley fixed so it just sits in the garage!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Patricio, the difference is, the more your Accucraft runs, the higher value it has, while the more you run your Aster the oposite is the case. Best wishes from Taipei, Zubi


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Zubi, What Accucraft engine is worth more used, having been run, then it was when it was new? I can think of a few Asters that are worth more now even having been run, then when they were new, but not any Accucraft engines.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Zubi - Patrico doesn't run his locos, he says - they are all shelf-queens. 

Me, I'd rather wear a loco out by running it than looking at it, but hey, that's MY choice. 

Best 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Jeff - it depends on what 'value' means to you, I'd guess. I value memories of great runs on the tracks of generous people, hauling long connsists of their high-priced cars behind my few live-steamers far more than I do the number of times I've dusted off the case I might keep it in. 
Value has different meanings to different people.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By zubi on 22 Jul 2011 12:01 AM 
Patricio, the difference is, the more your Accucraft runs, the higher value it has, while the more you run your Aster the opposite is the case. Best wishes from Taipei, Zubi 


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*This is my take on what Zubi said:*


*If you have an Accucraft that runs well people will see that you got a "Good one" and would give you more for it because of all the ones that are out there that aren't "Good ones".  The Aster, like any collectible would always be worth more in mint condition. That however does not mean that they do not hold their value.  *


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I see no sense in shelf queens, really don't understand that at all.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac, I agree. I'm not "saving" my engines for anyone.. I would make a guess that I have about 10,000 scale miles on my Aster Mikado. She still runs fine. But she is not worth in $s what she was when first built. And like many people here, I'm very happy dragging a string of cheap MDC or MTH cars down the rails behind my live steamers.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

My guess is that most of the Asters ever made are shelf queens. People just collect them and dust them off occassionally. I beleive we have seen quite a few examples of this including all three Big Boys here in Houston and most recently Art's C62 and now his Pennsy K4. I will say this about Art. When he gets an Aster he runs it till it drops or falls apart. Accucraft engines on the other hand are much less expensive and aren't deemed collectors items so people just run the wheels off them. Jeff and Chuck are the exception as far as Asters are concerned. Steve on the other hand just leaves his on the shelf. All we see over there is his Sandy River.







I have mostly Accucraft and I run them all. My goal is to wear them out before I kick the bucket. I didn't buy them to leave to someone else. So far I have worn out the C16(after 10 years) and the K27. What wears out on them is mainly the crank pins. I have replaced piston O rings on a few but that is about it. I fixed my C16 and Hottman rebuilt the K27 and the C21. The rest I am still working on wearing them out.







I do have an Aster BR03 which I run occassionally. But I don't want to run it much as I don't want it to loose any of its value. After all it's a collectors item. It's just like have a collectors firearm. If you shoot it you take away from it's value. I keep it as a hedge against inflation. It's like owning gold coins.


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

My guess is that most of the Asters ever made are shelf queens. 

Hmmmmmm........................Don't tell Caleb! 
Larry


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## privero (Jan 18, 2008)

Zubi, Terry is right, for know they are only "shelf Queens", but I am building a good collection, with to much patience and luck to find the engines I want and I guess I can always decide in the future to start using them and enjoy them even more. 

Regards, 

Patricio


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL Larry. I did say most. Yep Caleb is one who gets his money's worth out of his Asters and we all enjoy seeing them run. And there are a few others. But if you look at how many of each locomotive Aster made and how many you actually see running, the answer is most are shelf queens.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

John, you make some good points on all accounts. Jeff and Chuck run engines like nobody I have ever seen. They are proof how Asters hold up. You are proof on what Accucrafts can do. When the stress at work gets better I plan on breaking out the Asters on a timely basis too. Part of the fun for me about Asters is that they are more prototypical to run. This means more effort. This is a good thing. But for the last 7 months or so, I have not felt like effort in regards to my hobbies ..................... I admit, I have thrown the easiest things on the track to run, the 27 and Shay. 



My earlier post about Accucraft engines running chacteristics was mostly out of fun............did not mean to ruffle feathers.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess you could call my Asters "_*Shelf Queens*_", in that when I am not running them they spend their time openly displayed on shelves for all to see...










However, as anyone who knows me will attest, I do run them every chance I get.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Regarding shelf queens... 

First, to me a TRUE shelf queen is a locomotive [or other model] purchased specifically for the purposes of display and not operation on a model railroad. Gary Kohs of Fine Art Models regards all of his 1:32 locomotives and rolling stock as "shelf queens" that represent mechanical works of ART, not model railroad equipment. The ultimate example is the FAM radio controlled Bucyrus-Erie 250T crane. 

 I clearly hang out with the wrong crowd because I do not think I know a single individual with Aster locomotives that does not run them. That said, I know several folks with a more than modest collection of these locomotives who clearly have their favorites in terms of running, so some engines attain "near shelf queen" status by default. At one point Jerry Reshew was [and may still] maintain a log book of his locos so that he could make sure that all of them were run and serviced on a regular basis. This is actually a very good practice if you have more than just a small number that all get regular run time. 

My uninformed opinion based on flapping ears and wild hare estimates is that for British and North American owners of Aster models, at least 50 percent get at least occasional use. The other 50 percent includes display pieces, factory built models still in the box aging in a dark vault somewhere and unbuilt/unfinished kits. There are undoubtedly more than a few kits sitting unassembled in a closet somewhere waiting for the owner to "find time to build the engine". This is an artifact of the Aster market [at least for British prototypes] where you either bought it when it was first produced or paid through the nose when you realized "you just had to have it". The Duchess is the latest example of this phenomenon. I expect the Challenger to be the next in this category. 

I have personally found that letting a kit "age" is a bad plan. Aster's current policy is that there is NO WARRANTY on an unassembled kit after five years of its release. So.. if you find an apparent pristine kit from 1995 on a dusty shelf in an old hobby shop... beware. If you need parts, even obviously defective ones, you will buy them from Japan [if they have them]. 

So, VALUE is in the eye of the beholder. Usually, from the cosmetic perspective, Aster has a higher level of detail than Accucraft. Clearly, from the perspective of mechanics, an Aster is designed and manufactured to a much higher level than an Accucraft. From a longevity perspective, we only have Aster to look at; Accucraft's larger engines have not been running long enough. I have seven Aster engines that are at least 20 years old and they are all in good running condition. It will be interesting to see how my stable of Accucraft 1:32, 1:20 and 1:19 locos are doing after the same length of time.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

One the topic of Allie...having just re-read the SitG review of the Aster Allegheny I would if Accucraft read it and made the necessary changes that are required of the Aster for proper run. In particular I do not see listed drain cocks on the cylinders. Secondly, I wonder if they why they did not go with the alcohol setup (I guess boiler cost). So, will they have solved the issues of: weight distribution and springing of the tender.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Whatever you want to call them that is a beautiful set of trains.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Tom,
You can not justify your locos as "shelf queens" as the shelves are definitely not Aster quality but pauper quality!


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce,

After spending all that money on the _Queens_[/b], that's all I had left over for the *shelves*[/i].


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By Shay Gear Head on 22 Jul 2011 05:32 PM 
Tom,
You can not justify your locos as "shelf queens" as the shelves are definitely not Aster quality but pauper quality!


That is treated lumber buddy.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll take up a collection so Tom can at least paint the cheap lumber so it looks better than the raw wood.

What color would you like to see it and what finish should the paint have?

Who would like to be the first to donate? Please deposit to my bank account.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Well Bruce, 
I would suggest that each board be painted to match the train. 
LNER Green under the Flying Scotsman, and then a Teak stain under the train. 
LMS Crimson under the Duchess and train. 
Now either all pre war Malachite, or post war malachite, or different under the loco and train. 
GWR green under the Pannier, and then Cream and Brown stripes under the train, either horizontal, or vertical! 
Now this will mean that the trains will always have to be put back on the same shelf, and round the correct way! 
Gloss of course so all the dripping oil is easy to wipe off. 
Sorry, I don't know your bank account number. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## SCSteamer (Jul 24, 2009)

Bruce, 
Post your bank account number - I have a cousin in Nigeria who has $4.3 million to contribute to painting those shelves... 

SteveB


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Steve, funny. I too have a wealthy cousin in [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

We must all be related, have a wealthy cousin in Nigeria also.


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## overlandflyer (Jul 25, 2011)

Posted By jfrank on 22 Jul 2011 09:04 AM My guess is that most of the Asters ever made are shelf queens. ... I do have an Aster BR03 which I run occassionally. But I don't want to run it much as I don't want it to loose any of its value. After all it's a collectors item. It's just like have a collectors firearm. If you shoot it you take away from it's value. I keep it as a hedge against inflation. It's like owning gold coins.

=================

other than dropping it, or dropping something on it, i'm trying to figure out how running a steam locomotive does anything to decrease its value. frankly, if i were in the market for a live steamer, having a proven runner might even be a positive selling factor. and the bottom line is that an Aster can always be stripped down to its component parts, cleaned and rebuilt to close to like new condition.

living in a condo where even the minimum 400 sqft required to turn a simple circle is impossible to find, my running has been confined to treadmill sessions as demos, but i still feel occasional running is doing more to maintain their value vs those with years of static display.

and just because you haven't seen every Aster sold as a running model on YouTube doesn't mean they don't run; i have two in that category.

cheers...gary


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## deltatrains (Nov 25, 2010)

Posted By steamtom1 on 22 Jul 2011 01:26 PM 
I guess you could call my Asters "_*Shelf Queens*_", in that when I am not running them they spend their time openly displayed on shelves for all to see...










However, as anyone who knows me will attest, I do run them every chance I get. 

*Tom, thank you for that beautiful picture of your collection. I like it so much I'm thinking of making it my screen wallpaper. I would like to know if you have them setup so that you can run them out onto a layout as a complete train and back or do you have to carry each unit out by hand?* *The step method does take up a lot of room and that is why I wondered about them able to run out as a complete train otherwise most train displays are flat on the wall set above each other. Sorry I cannot jump in on the Aster versus Accucraft discussion as I have only Accucrafts. I guess according to these posts I am going for quantity and not quality.Thanks for your response, Peter.*


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

I hafta laff - that picture above shows a number of trains, not one of which would fit in my back yard in a straight line, even diagonally. and since my back yard has the same dimensions as my house, well............... 

Which is why I so greatly value the hospitality of friends with suitable tracks to run my little collection of steamers - only then can my single Aster BR 01 and its seven cars look like a train and not an expensive pretzel, and my Royal Hudson and coach [thanks, Alan], get a real run. Kinda. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## steamupdad (Aug 19, 2008)

Whether it's a $20,000 aster or a $2,000 accucraft the darn things were built to be RUN. It's a toy, no matter what you paid for it. As far as 'maintaining' value, depends on how well you take care of it, how many are still available, want and need and so forth. And then, it's still only worth what you or anyone is willing to pay. If I went and bought a half-million $ car ( fantasizing here), am I gonna just leave it parked in the garage? H-E-double hockey sticks NO! I'm pullin into jiffy lube, changin the oil and puttin a few more thousand miles on that be-otch. Bottom line is, there toys, meant to be played with, with a price to accomedate your taste. Did you buy it to play with it? Or buy it hoping to get your money back? If you bought it just to stare at it, I'll sell ya a photo of the loco you wanted so it can serve the same purpose; be looked at once in a while and collect the same dust. Buy it, play with it, have fun. Enjoy life. Put em on the rails and bring it to life. Alot more fun than just staring at it. (no trains were harmed in the making of this statemet)


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## steamupdad (Aug 19, 2008)

P.S.
Which cousin in Nigeria? Maybe I can get that $500,000 car after all (?)


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

You would take a 1/2 million dollar car to "jippy lube" ?????? hehe,


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If I had a half million dollar car, the interest on the loan would mean I could not afford to put oil in the car, let alone take it anywhere to let someone replace any oil left in it after I had driven it 100,000 miles... but then I could not afford the gas to drive it 1 mile so I guess it would probably never need the oil change in the 1st place. Talk about a Shelf Queen!


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Lon, 
I saw a documentary a while ago about a 'secret' air conditioned barn, somewhere in the UK, where collectors pay to keep there half million plus cars. 
There appeared to be more than 100 of them all lined up. 
They were carefully lifted off the ground and cocooned, but I think it said run every now and then. 
IF you are foolish enough to want to actually drive it, you could have them get it out for you to pick up. 
Maybe they are the same people that have Asters sitting on shelves! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 25 Jul 2011 09:09 AM 
Lon, 
I saw a documentary a while ago about a 'secret' air conditioned barn, somewhere in the UK, where collectors pay to keep there half million plus cars. 
There appeared to be more than 100 of them all lined up. 
They were carefully lifted off the ground and cocooned, but I think it said run every now and then. 
IF you are foolish enough to want to actually drive it, you could have them get it out for you to pick up. 
Maybe they are the same people that have Asters sitting on shelves! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada 
And there's another "Old Topic" - whether to drive your historic artifact or preserve it for the future.

It applies to real trains. Think of the East Broad Top, or the Cumbres and Toltec. Both operate with original equipment on the original rails, and that's part of their attraction. But the equipment is being worn out in order to gain revenue now to keep it running. [You can't win.] The EBT recently took their historic combines #14 and 15 out of service to replace a lot of the wood. Coach #20, the Business Car, and a historic artifact of the first order, is still running as the Guard/Conductors end-of-train car (I hesitate to say caboose,) as it has a brake valve on the railing. (It used to be a single-car train for the President's use - you know, dinner with his pal at Joller Mine.) Would folk come to ride the trains without the historic equipment? The Thomas-the-Tank set doesn't care, but Grandpa, who is footing the bill for the outing, probably does. 
I won't hijack the thread by posting EBT photos, but let me just say that I am not keeping my 'historic' trains for future generations. I'm going to run then into the ground!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

This is for Charles or any Aster articulated loco owner. 
I have built a couple of articulated locos and used silicone tubing for the flex joints with fair success but on my next project, I am thinking of upgrading this and using a pivoting and telescoping brass fitting. I have designed something which should work but was wondering if Aster has a better way of doing it. If someone has a photo or diagram of the fitting they can post or send me, I would appreciate it.


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## privero (Jan 18, 2008)

Hello all:

Here are some photos of my " Shelf Queens" , at least some of you call them like that, I myself like to think more of Giants, Dormants, waiting to
awaken with its full potential, in the near present or future. No matter what, I love my trains.

Best regards,

Patricio


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## privero (Jan 18, 2008)




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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By privero on 01 Aug 2011 11:37 AM 

Hello all:

Here are some photos of my " Shelf Queens" , at least some of you call them like that, I myself like to think more of Giants, Dormants, waiting to
awaken with its full potential, in the near present or future. No matter what, I love my trains.

Best regards,



and it would appear also r/c helicopters!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## privero (Jan 18, 2008)

Hello David:

No David, the Helicopters, cars and motorcycles are been uses quite regularly, but not the Live Steam trains, only Lionel trains that we use a lot. 
Regards,

Patricio


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Patricio, 
Actually I meant that you not only "Love my trains", but also "Love my helicopters". 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter, (deltatrains),

Thanks for the kind words. 


No, I am not able to run them directly out of the basement, besides, I do not have a live steam track of my own. Our club, the Michigan Small Scale Live Steamers has a portable track which we set up regularly. In fact, we have a SteamUp planned this weekend at Huckelberry Village, near Flint, Michigan. For some pictures of earlier Huckelberry Steamups, click here, here, and here.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

That Berkshire would be the one on top.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Patricio, when do you plan on running those live steamers ??


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## deltatrains (Nov 25, 2010)

Posted By steamtom1 on 01 Aug 2011 07:25 PM 
Peter, (deltatrains),

Thanks for the kind words. 


No, I am not able to run them directly out of the basement, besides, I do not have a live steam track of my own. Our club, the Michigan Small Scale Live Steamers has a portable track which we set up regularly. In fact, we have a SteamUp planned this weekend at Huckelberry Village, near Flint, Michigan. For some pictures of earlier Huckelberry Steamups, click here, here, and here. 


*Very nice Tom. I checked out all three HERE's and that is a cornucopia of trains. Thanks for sharing.*
*All the Best, Peter.*


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## privero (Jan 18, 2008)

Hi STEVE:

Actually I do not know, since I usually run only Lionel electrics, and quite frankly I at this moment I do not have a Layout and I do not know how to operate such engines without making costly mistakes. Perhaps one day I will join you and Caleb in Houston so I can admire your engines and learn some tips. I think I am going to buy an inexpensive train to learn the procedure, before using any of my engines. Perhaps one day we can use the 3 Big Boys together, that will be a little competition to the Italians. 

Best regards,

Patricio


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By privero on 04 Aug 2011 11:07 AM 

Hi STEVE:

Actually I do not know, since I usually run only Lionel electrics, and quite frankly I at this moment I do not have a Layout and I do not know how to operate such engines without making costly mistakes. Perhaps one day I will join you and Caleb in Houston so I can admire your engines and learn some tips. I think I am going to buy an inexpensive train to learn the procedure, before using any of my engines. Perhaps one day we can use the 3 Big Boys together, that will be a little competition to the Italians. 

Best regards,

Patricio 
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*


*Actually we could leash four together. Art would get upset if we forgot him. The amazing thing about the BB is that other then the effort required to lug it around it is one of the easiest to fire up and best running engines that I have ever put on the rails. And............you are always welcome to boil some water with us Houstonians. Be warned though, our egos are as big as Texas and so is our BS.*


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Patricio

There are two great steamup I believe are within traveling distance for you: Diamondhead and National Summer Steamup- try it I guarantee you will find other opportunities to engage your great collection of live steam locomotives.


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