# Piko Scale?



## edkedk (May 3, 2014)

What is the actual scale size of Piko trains and track?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Variable, depending on the model in question.
generally 1/24 to 1/29, somewhere in that range.

Definitely not 1/20.3, and definitely not 1/32..but somewhere in the middle.

And in "Large Scale", track also has no specific scale.
The scale of the track depends on the trains running on it.
although there are two general "tie profiles" you can get with code 332 track:
"narrow gauge profile" with larger ties farther apart, and "standard gauge profile" with somewhat smaller ties that are closer together..
but even both of those are a bit generic and dont fit any one specific scale exactly..

Scot


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Piko is similar to LGB in some aspect. Keep it short enough for small curves, and look good with small locomotives. Not to a true scale.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Piko claims their scale is 1:22.5. As Greg alluded to, Piko (like LGB) seems to use selective compression to make the locomotives and rolling stock look better on smaller curves. This is especially true of rolling stock, which seems to be significantly compressed in length (while left mostly scale in height and width) 

If you buy Piko buildings, figures, and accessories, they're to the same "scale" (which does seem somewhat larger than 1:24 if you compare to 1:24 scale diecast vehicles) which is nice. I have some 1:24 scale structures from CMS that don't seem wildly off in proportion to the Piko stuff.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Most of Piko's products are based on European standard gauge trains, built to sizes that fit the LGB philosophy of "everything built to the same general size regardless of prototype." As a result, most of their stuff comes in around 1:26. Their US 0-6-0, mogul, etc. are closer to 1:29 in terms of overall proportions. (US trains are larger than their European counterparts, thus when shrunk to the same overall proportions of the model, will have a smaller scale.)

The US rolling stock (box car, reefer, hopper) are made from the old MDC molds, and are 1:32. The wood caboose (also from the ex-MDC tooling) is 1:24.

Piko track's ties are in line with LGB's overall tie size and spacing, so to give the track more of a narrow gauge look than standard gauge. Similar also to USA Trains, TrainLine45, and Aristo's "European" ties. Aristo's "US" style ties are smaller and closer together. Bachmann's "1:20" ties are longer and farther apart.

Later,

K


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## catherine yronwode (Oct 9, 2013)

Worth mentioning is that there are definitely TWO scales of Piko commercial (downtown) buildings and they do NOT look good together at all! There are the boxy brick buildings with balconies in 2-story and 3-story models. All have more or less the same footprint and make a nice "downtown row." They work well with 1:24 to 1:22.5 things. These are nice examples, although they could stand some personalizing touches:










Then there are the screwy "false front" buildings that SHOULD fit in a similar downtown as slightly older buildings, but they are WAY too small. Some have weird finial balls on top, like furniture, not like real buildings. I think they are 1:32. As buildings they are just WRONG-looking when you place them next to the others.










So if you use Piko trains and track, you will also have to decide which Piko scale of buildings you are working with -- because you cannot easily mix and match them, in my opinion.


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## BriNumber8 (May 1, 2014)

I actually emailed Piko about this a bit ago...and I was given the following response from Jonathan Meador of Piko America:

"Most items are in the ballpark of 1:27, which is a compromise, much as LGB did with their models based on standard gauge trains. The American-style freight cars so far are made from the old MDC-Roundhouse tooling, which PIKO purchased and refurbished. Those are in the 1:29 range. Of course, freight cars on real railroads come in all different sizes, with older cars generally being smaller than modern cars. So unless you’re measuring details like ladders and doors, considerable variation in car sizes is quite believable."

As a side note this is my first (I think) time posting on the forums here although I've been lurking around for some time now!


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Take a look down a row of real buildings or a real train, are they all the same size?


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

These are all Piko Buildings:


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## catherine yronwode (Oct 9, 2013)

Nice town, Jim!


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, this a scene on layout we built last month at Union Station in St Louis


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim Agnew said:


> Thanks, this a scene on layout we built last month at Union Station in St Louis


Is it still there (permanent display)?


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes Al, it's a permanent display.


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

Apologies in advance for resurrecting an old thread. So Piko/MDC boxcars are basically the same scale as the earlier Lionel G scale stock?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would say that Lionel, MDC, and #1 scale are all 1/32 which includes Marklin also to the best of my knowledge.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

OldNoob said:


> Apologies in advance for resurrecting an old thread. So Piko/MDC boxcars are basically the same scale as the earlier Lionel G scale stock?


No, Lionel was 1/32 scale..I dont believe Piko has ever made anything in 1/32 scale.

Scot


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Scottychaos said:


> No, Lionel was 1/32 scale..I dont believe Piko has ever made anything in 1/32 scale.
> 
> Scot


These small hoppers, which were originally MDC and where Piko acquired the tooling, are considered o be in 1/32 scale.

http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=1223&mode=search&l=english

But I suppose one would need to find the real actual prototype if it exists and take some measurements to be sure.

Knut


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

krs said:


> These small hoppers, which were originally MDC and where Piko acquired the tooling, are considered o be in 1/32 scale.
> 
> http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=1223&mode=search&l=english
> 
> ...


Thanks, I was wondering,, because i noticed the older Lionel modern American 40' boxcars and the Piko modern American 40' boxcars are both about 14 inches long.
The LGB American modern 40' boxcars are right at 17 inches long.
(i have yet to see a Big Hauler modern boxcar)


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

MDC produced two "Small" hopper cars....the smallest is known as an "Ore Car".....both are 1:32 scale...Piko may have "Improved" the moulds, but for all intents and purposes, they are still the MDC cars, no better, or worse than the originals. I have a few of the ore cars, and compared with the LGB American style ore cars, they are not even in the running, no-matter what scale they are. Too bad the LGB ore cars are not being produced at present.
Fred Mills


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

When it comes to box car, there were various size box cars made and used around the country and still are. All you have to do is look at ant photos of box cars in a freight yard. Now the MDC/Piko American box cars are on the small size when compared to everything in 1/29th and LGB. As for the 2 bay coal hoppers and 2 bay covered hoppers, they measure out to be a little bigger than 1/32nd but not 1/29th. Once again if you look at older freight yards full of coal hoppers, the cars varied in size. Then you look at the MDC/Piko Caboose and they are much closer to 1/29th and possibly even bigger.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Piko also apparently got the 2 bay hoppers which were 1:32, I can't keep track of which they "got" and which were produced. I thought that Piko also produced the ex-MDC box cars in 1:32, but as Randy points out, they can be "rubber scale" since so many different ones were produced. I thought the 2 bay were 1:32 pretty strictly, but I know Randy is the expert on these, he had quite a collection I believe.

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Randy Stone said:


> When it comes to box car, there were various size box cars made and used around the country and still are. All you have to do is look at ant photos of box cars in a freight yard. Now the MDC/Piko American box cars are on the small size when compared to everything in 1/29th and LGB. As for the 2 bay coal hoppers and 2 bay covered hoppers, they measure out to be a little bigger than 1/32nd but not 1/29th. Once again if you look at older freight yards full of coal hoppers, the cars varied in size. Then you look at the MDC/Piko Caboose and they are much closer to 1/29th and possibly even bigger.


I remember reading that all MDC equipment was 1/32 scale, more or less, with the exception of the MDC caboose which was around 1/24 scale.

True enough that in real life cars came in a wide variety of sizes. If the difference on a G scale train seems too large, it helps visually to couple a medium sized car between the large and the small one.

Knut


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

If it helps, here is a response I received from Jonathan at PIKO USA late last year about scale of their products:

"The PIKO European locos are generally in the 1:26 to 1:27 range, to be compatible in overall size with most of the European models already on the market. Similarly, the American locos are closer to the 1:29 range, because that is how the American market developed over the years.

Compatibility with LGB was a prime consideration. Their steam locos are all models of narrow gauge locos, in a larger scale. Our steam locos are models of standard gauge locos, in a smaller scale, so the overall visual mass and size are similar. But even LGB took many liberties. The Porter is a good example - it's a model of a tiny prototype, so to keep the size compatible with most of the rest of their line, the scale is really large, probably something larger than 1:20. On the other hand, their models of American articulated locos are considerably smaller-scaled, because in 1:22.5 scale, they would dwarf everything else in the line. 
Our American Mogul loco is not a model of a specific prototype, but it is close to the LGB Mogul in overall size. Things like doors and cab heights are more telling - a 1:22.5 engineer fits comfortably in the cab.

The original PIKO American freight cars - ore car, hopper, boxcar and reefer - were from the old MDC-Roundhouse tooling which PIKO purchased and refurbished. Those cars are all rather small, although freight cars came in all sizes. People commonly mix our ore cars and hoppers in with LGB cars, but the boxcars and reefers do look small.

More recently, we have developed a lot of new tooling for cars. We made our passenger cars to match up with the old LGB American wood cars perfectly in width and height, but they are not as long. You can find cars of different lengths in a real passenger train, so that works okay. Our more recent freight cars - flats, gondolas, bulkhead flats, tank cars, etc. - are made to be more compatible with LGB cars."


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, he correctly identifies the lineage of the Piko cars, but instead of being precise like he was about the Piko locos, he just says rather small... 

The Piko cars that came from MDC are much more consistently 1:32 than his European locos that have the "gummie scale" like LGB.

I can understand why he was imprecise, they want to sell trains... but when someone asks a precise question about scale, I think they deserve a precise answer, especially when the answer is known to the community.

Anyway, no offense to Piko, but their offerings are a hodge podge of scale.

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

.....as were and still are, LGB.

Which is not meant as any sort of criticism of either brand. Both build quality & running characteristics of both are excellent.


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Yeah - I had hoped for more than what I got but Oh well. I also understand why.

What I got out of it was that LGB and Piko generally do not mix which is what I was looking at doing. Seems that Hartland, Bachmann, and LGB are generally able to be mixed, but one still really needs to watch it or something will look out of whack. I do not count rivets, but would like my stuff to be plausible.


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

Greg Elmassian said:


> .....
> I can understand why he was imprecise, they want to sell trains... but when someone asks a precise question about scale, I think they deserve a precise answer, especially when the answer is known to the community....
> 
> Greg


Exactly! 
On the Lionel page they claim thier G-scale trains are 1:24
"Lionel’s G-Gauge sets are battery powered sets and are approximately 1:24 scale."
http://www.lionel.com/gauge 









Oddly in the newer Lionel large scale sets , the "40' boxcars" are only about 9 inches long, which is more like 1:48. 








"gummie scale" indeed. Makes my brain hurt LOL


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

My Aristocraft Reeses Pieces looks very long compared to that car above!!


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