# Lgb 2085D-2



## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

I have one of these LGB 2085D-2 locos and cant find the user manual. 

As it was a bit of a shelf queen along with a Crock. 

Having set up a reasonable size DC test track after recovering my LGB/PM bits from various lofts and storage areas I was going though my loco collection for testing the DC ones. The Zero One PM ones can wait till later.

With the 2085-D2 I have 'eventually' remembered how to open the smoke box to get at the 0-1-2 switch and everything seems fine BUT It wont run 'for long' on my 50080 1A LGB controller. 

At full power (4) it stops quickly and this is on a rolling road so both motors are not fighting each other. If I set the power to 2 and even 3 it runs for longer but nothing like more than a minute or two at most.

I know that these locos have 'problems with the front motor' but it looks like the front motor is turning faster and more freely than the rear one and when it stops it does so with a light buzzing sound from I think the rear motor.  

Obviously it needs to come apart to see what the problem is.

I have looked online and can only find one user manual to purchase from Germany

https://www.modell-land.de/bedienungsanleitung-20850-dampflok-80005-e014-p-10662.html

that is listed as 20850 NOT 2085D

I have the exploded diagrams 
http://www.onlytrains.com/manuals/2085d-1.pdf

AND the 20851 ones (two of)

http://www.onlytrains.com/manuals/20851-1.pdf
http://www.onlytrains.com/manuals/20851-2.pdf

I can find the user manual for a 20851 

https://www.trainli.com/USER-GUIDE-PDF/New LGB Engines/lgb-20851-user-guide.pdf

Which is a quite different loco electronically with two sets of switches and more.

BUT cant find the 2085D/20850 user manual online.

I am looking to disassemble this loco to see what the problem is and to see what is inside as I am thinking about installing a (non LGB) DCC board and sound board.

I suppose I have to ask? 

Can I get at the motors with the loco on its back in the moulded styrene packing case OR is this a full loco workshop strip job?

IF so where do I start? Has someone done a photo strip of this loco?

Though I am probably going to need to take the top off too 'eventually' to fit the DCC/Sound board but it would be nice to get the loco running correctly first.

Also I would have thought that the small LGB 50080 1A controller was good enough to run this loco 'lightly'? 

Thoughts on that please. 

For sure my other small locos are whizzing around using this controller.

In fact as a quick and dirty test and without getting out my DVM, I put four on the 50 feet test track running round my room and they are whizzing around without any problems two are ancient Stainz's with the pick up sliders well worn after thousands of hours of continuous running.

Any help appreciated

thanks in anticipation


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

David,

I just lost a long reply when I tried to edit it - this software wiped out my whole post not just the line I wanted to delete.

So the short version:

1. There is no 20850, the original loco was 2085D which became the 20851 when LGB went to the 5-digit numbering scheme.

2. Instructions for the original 2085D can be found in the GBDB Database here:
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=6022
English translation at the end

3. The 2085D has two motors plus a smoke generator. A 1 amp power pack is not enough. See if you can borrow a 2 amp or higher current power pack to see if the problems go away

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Knut, were there any changes when that model changed from the 2085 to the 20851?

Thanks, Greg - 820


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg -

The model number change from 2085D to 20851 was done by LGB in 1993 specifically to accomodate a new inventory control system that couldn't handle the mix of 4-digit product numbers with 0 to 3 alpha suffixes that LGB used until that time.
There were no no 2085 product changes that went along with that number change.

However, LGB produced that original version of the 2085 from 1982 to 1997 and there were numerous model changes made during that time that were notdocumented by LGB.

External changes can obviously be seen but internal changes obviously not.
I only have one 2085D and have never had it apart - maybe Dan who I'm sure has had more 2085's on the bench can comment on internal variations between 2085 models.

The sucessor to the 2085 was the 21852 which was only sold with the 70685 Orient Express set, that loco had "Digital Sound (LGB terminology) and it's guts are totally different as is the exterior finish.

Regards, Knut


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

*Update*

I sat it upside down in it the top half of the styrene box and took the rear motor plate off.

The inside of the wheels were filthy so I disconnected the linkage and removed the wheels and axles,

I then cleaned the inside of the wheels and the brushes/contacts and springs and reassembled carefully quartering the wheels.

I took lots of pictures and will post here tomorrow once I have loaded them to my computer and my photo blog.

Apart from the dirty wheels I could see no real issues.

Putting the brushes back in and quartering the wheels at the same time was tricky but I used two thin plastic scalpel handles to hold the brushes in and slipped the wheels down the side of these plastic scalpel handles and quartered the two that are gear driven the middle one was easy to quarter just a matter of slipping on the con rod.

I will probably make a plasticard tool to hold the the brushes/contacts in when I reassemble the trucks so that life is a bit easier as for sure i will be taking things apart again.

I ran it on the rolling road and things had/have improved BUT only 'slightly' 

I can run it round my test track and it will go round twice (100+feet) before stopping (previously it only went about a foot) so long as I don't set the controller to more than three. At four it stops very quickly It goes 'better' in reverse and for sure it is 'happier' on the track than on the rolling road. I assume the front six wheels are unloading the back six when the loco is on the track.

BUT we still have a problem.

Does anyone know if I can remove the trucks from the loco and run them independently IF so how do i get them off?

And can I post a video here too, if so how?

With the loco on the rolling road the front set of wheels are rotating faster than the rear set and when the rear set slow down and stop that obviously acts like a dead short and everything stops.

Thats all for now folks


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

*More Info*

*http://traincraftbyklaus.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/lgb-mallet.html
*

*LGB Mallet *


LGB manufactured their first Mallet in 1982. The archetype was built in 1929 by Hanomag, a then famous German machine and steam engine manufacturer. The Mallet was built to especially operate on steeply inclined stretches of track with numerous bends. That made her a great choice for German Big Train model railroading. With what little space Germans had to lay their layouts, either in their small gardens or in their even smaller basements or apartments, the LGB Mallet was the one to conquer even narrow curves. With her boiler and cab finished in dull black paint and dark green saddle tanks she looked elegant and massive at the same time. Greenberg's Guide to LGB says about her: "Articulated steam locomotive with their double drive mechanisms, known as Mallets after their inventor, are a visual joy in operation. Note the large front cylinders, operating in the prototype (preserved in the Blonay-Chamby Museum Railway in Switzerland) from partially expanded steam that has already been through the rear cylinders of this compound engine. The model hinges both mechanism to accommodate the radically tight 1100 curves, whose 600 mm radius barely exceeds the 520 mm length of the locomotive."

 LGB 2085 D -2 Presented in the 1983/84 catalog the LGB 2085D came with a smoker and her initial price was DEM 975.00 which was pretty steep. The average German worker made about DEM 940.00 a month. The next years saw two more Mallets (a) the LGB 2085 D-2 with high voltage signs on the steam dome, cabin and steam tank door and (b) the 2085 D-3 with chassis and steam tanks in gleaming black. Today's value should be around US$ 1,500.00 but you will find offers starting at US$ 500.00-$600.00 in probably not mint condition. Due to the design the front motor tends to overheat easily since it lacks ventilation under some circumstances like outdoor heat, extended operation and such. Be prepared to exchange the motor(s).
 LGB 70685 with a 21852 Mallet and two Pullman cars 
Then in 1997 - and at the height of the US LGB market and fan craze LGB issued the special Limited Edition Orient Express, featuring a LGB 21852 Mallet locomotive with a blue and black color scheme and two Pullman club cars (type # 31685) with car # "31650" and "31653" in the traditional beige / blue color scheme. The set was LGB # 70685 and was first presented in the 1997 catalog. It sold anywhere from US$ 2,700.00 to US$ 3,500.00 and sometimes more. Today prices range from US$ 1,800.00 to $2,500.00 depending on condition and aftermarket installations.
 LGB 22852 
In 1998 the LGB 22852 was released, another all black model with red chassis and labeled " Deutsche Reichsbahn / 99 201 / 133 München". It had sound. It sold for US$ 1,400.00 in the US until 2000. Today's value in mint condition should be around US$ 1,200.00 but again, you can find offers starting around US$ 800.00. Same motor issues should be expected.



 LGB 23851 
In 2000 LGB issued the Brohltal Mallet (Ex OEG Mallet) # 23851 which also came in a digital version (digital decoder) as the 23851.8 It was another black model with the sticker/plate reading: "II / BEG" and golden bell, tank door lock and hand rails. Prices in USA were US$ 900.00 without the decoder and US$ 1,200.00 for the decoder version.
in 2001 LGB offered the LGB # 24852 CFV - ONLY for the French market. Only 200 were made. The cabin, saddle tanks and cylinder (blocks) were in red and she had a loco plate"413" and a plant plate. Wheels in black. It is currently available in Europe for Euro 1,399.00 or US$ 1,960.00 plus shipping.
 LGB 24852 CFV Mallet with digital decoder and sound  LGB 26851 From 2002 to 2006 the LGB# 25851 was sold and presented in the 2003-05 catalog. It was the same engine as the 22852 but had no sound. You would find offers starting at $700.00 which is still roughly their selling price in 2003. You will also find LGB 25851's digitalized with aftermarket products, ranging between US$ 1,100.00 and 1,500.00.00- but mostly on the European market.
The year 2005 saw the last Mallet by the old LGB owners, the LGB 26851 Mallet CFV in all black with red plates and digital decoder. It was made for the French market and specified as an Export Model by LGB. Expect to see price request around $ 700.00.

The new LGB Owners issued another Mallet sometime after 2009 and it is now available under LGB# 26850. It is another all black model of the "DR 99.20" class. It sells for roughly US$ 900.00.

The Mallet never found the same audience in the USA as did the Uintah and/or the Sumpter Valley. Only the Orient Express edition of the Mallet was a great hit with the US LGB fans and the limited edition of 2,200 went almost solely onto the US market. Klaus doesn't see a lot of Mallets in his workshop. Not many of them were sold here to begin with and second, it is a sturdy engine with good operating characteristics. In case you are operating a Mallet and need spare parts- please contact Klaus.


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

*Pictures*


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

*Pictures 2*


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

*Video*

Turn your volume up high and you can hear the BUZZ as the motor stalls

You can clearly see the back trucks going slower and when they stall they overload the controller power supply so the front truck stops.

Enjoy AND comment here too please






thanks


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Swap motors between blocks and see what happens?

Greg - 815


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Swap motors between blocks and see what happens?
> 
> Greg - 815


Thanks 

But I think that cant be done from the bottom. (someone could correct me if I am wrong here) So that means taking the body off and then the trucks off so IF/ONCE I have dismantled it to that extent I can run the trucks as an independent item and see which truck is causing the problem. 

Ebay Germany have TOTALLY NEW trucks with new motors, gears and wheels BUT they are expensive. Doubly so as it would be silly to only replace one.

thanks


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

since you can see the issue on rollers, you are good to demonstrate the problem.

I doubt you can do much more without taking things apart, unfortunately.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have converted several of the 2085D mallets and I have found the following:
Motor blocks can be removed from the bottom without going inside the engine.
There are 2 different motors used in these locos, mine has the motor with a shorter mount. A friend took a standard short shaft motor (62204) and turned it down with a lathe. It is the end opposite the power leads that is different.
For DCC the 3 wire interface to the motor block has to be changed to 4 wire, that is the motor needs to be completely isolated from track power.
Mine now has pulsing smoke and a remote controlled hook/loop coupler for uncoupling.


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## Flying Scot (Aug 12, 2017)

Dan Pierce said:


> I have converted several of the 2085D mallets and I have found the following:
> Motor blocks can be removed from the bottom without going inside the engine.
> There are 2 different motors used in these locos, mine has the motor with a shorter mount. A friend took a standard short shaft motor (62204) and turned it down with a lathe. It is the end opposite the power leads that is different.
> For DCC the 3 wire interface to the motor block has to be changed to 4 wire, that is the motor needs to be completely isolated from track power.
> Mine now has pulsing smoke and a remote controlled hook/loop coupler for uncoupling.



*"Motor blocks can be removed from the bottom without going inside the engine."

*Do please tell me how to do that

I thought the motor in these was LGB L62201 Motor (E126050)

thanks


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Dave is overthinking it. A 1 amp controler is NOT enough power for a Mallet, even says so in the LGB catalog. You need the 5 amp LGB power supply and seperate controler assembly or a larger non LGB power supply like the MRC Powermaster G to run a mallet or any of the big twin motor locomotives. The 1 amp will do it, for a short spell then it overheats itself and trips the internal circuit breaker. Nothing you can do to that mallet will change it. I had one, I even unhooked the smoke unit as these suck power, and I might get between 5 and 10min of run time on a 1 amp LGB power supply before it trips out. My Kroc was the same way as its twin motored. Add sound in, like my friends Unitah Mallet and it wont even move, just sits for a min or so making sounds, then trips the breaker on the power supply. It runs flawlessly on his MRC Powermaster G throttle though. Mike


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

The motor blocks will NOT run exactly at the same speed, this is why there is NO traction tire on one set. Its also the reason WHY the 2085d was known to overheat its front motor block on commercial layouts with long run times without a break due to not enough cooling air getting to the motor itself. I highly recommend NOT wasting your money on new motors, blocks or yanking out the motors themselves till you run the old girl on a bigger, ie 5amp or larger, power supply. The lack of enough AMPS from your 1 Amp set up is one reason the motors are doing what they are. I learned this all many years ago when I got my first 2085d in my late teens. I had to break down and spend more big $$ for the LGB 5 amp power supply and the seperate controler so I could run my new engine! Back then the LGB power supply was about the only game in town unless you could build your own high amp power supply. The grungy back sides of the wheels is normal thanks to the oil impregnated brushes that LGB uses for power pickup. Cleaning the wheel backs is a common chore on these models. Also tends to really dirty up the red frames on models so fitted. Mike


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Mike Toney said:


> Dave is overthinking it. A 1 amp controler is NOT enough power for a Mallet, even says so in the LGB catalog.


I pointed that out in my first post already (post #2 in this thread). 
Wihout proper power to test, troubleshooting is just a waste of time.

Knut


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have removed the motors from the bottom of the 2085 many times!!
It is real east to swap them from front to back.
Do not remove the screw in the center on the bottom, this screw only holds the bottom plate in place.
When installing the motor take great care in the motor alignment pin being in the correct place or you will strip gears!!


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