# Fn3 caboose for the EBT?



## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

All: 

Today during a phone call, my father the HO modeller for well over 50 years informed me that today he had ordered /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif (for whatever reason) one of the Accucraft EBT 2-8-2s. I can find him hoppers from Bachmann and AMS, but it appears that there is not a kit or RTR option for the caboose, or is this not the case? 

I know Bachmann have a 1:22.5 one..... 

Before he (or I) tried to scratchbuild one I figured I would ask. 

Thanks!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Great choice by your father! He'll have to wait a few months, but we're all hoping it will be worth it! 

there is not a kit or RTR option for the caboose


You're correct about the caboose at this moment, but I'd suggest asking Rich Yoder what 
his follow-up plans are: Rich Yoder Models website 

Personally, I use a combine, as the EBT did. (Mine came from a Don Winter kit, but AMS has a J&S combine on the way which could be converted.) The high-sided hoppers are from RY Models, owned by Dr Rivet. 










He can also check out the coach conversions by Mr EBT: #20 business car from the Masterclass Carter Bros kit and #3 from the AMS J&S coach. 

EBT #20 Coach thread 

EBT #3 conversion thread 

There's also an EBT steel boxcar kit around, plus a thread on conversion of the Bachmann boxcar to EBT #154.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Like the combine idea, where does one get the Don Winter kits? 

I forgot about Kevin's kitbash, I will send that on to dad (so he can start asking me about doing it for him).


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Sadly, Don passed away a year or two ago, and his kits are no longer available. (Great lookin' train, Pete!) 

As Pete suggests, the AMS combine can come close, but it's also not available yet. If you're impatient, check out Rio Grande Models' new Pagosa Springs combine replacement sides for the AMS coach. Get rid of the cupola, and that's got potential as well. 

You could get one of Accucraft's short cabooses and letter it for the EBT. No, it's not as blasphemous as it may sound. I'm doing research right now on all the EBT's cabooses, comparing photographs to known cabooses, and there are a few discrepancies and mysteries. One is a shortish caboose that's noticeably longer than the railroad's short bobber cabooses, but not quite as long as what would become their work caboose. That would put it right in the ballpark of Accucraft's short D&RGW caboose. Now I have yet to find conclusive evidence that such is the case, but it's certainly an intriguing possibility. 

Later, 

K


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Pete, 

EBT steel boxcar kit? Who is putting that kit out? 

Your EBT train looks great!!!! 

Thanks. 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 06/20/2008 1:04 AM
Sadly, Don passed away a year or two ago, and his kits are no longer available. (Great lookin' train, Pete!) 
As Pete suggests, the AMS combine can come close, but it's also not available yet. If you're impatient, check out Rio Grande Models' new Pagosa Springs combine replacement sides for the AMS coach. Get rid of the cupola, and that's got potential as well. 
You could get one of Accucraft's short cabooses and letter it for the EBT. No, it's not as blasphemous as it may sound. I'm doing research right now on all the EBT's cabooses, comparing photographs to known cabooses, and there are a few discrepancies and mysteries. One is a shortish caboose that's noticeably longer than the railroad's short bobber cabooses, but not quite as long as what would become their work caboose. That would put it right in the ballpark of Accucraft's short D&RGW caboose. Now I have yet to find conclusive evidence that such is the case, but it's certainly an intriguing possibility. 
Later, 
K







Thanks Kevin for your reply. 

Yes, right after that post I "googled" Don Winters Kits and saw that he had passed away. 

No hurry for this, I don't think the loco is coming anytime soon. Just in the planning stage, and with two companies releasing EBT steam, I am sure someone will come up with a hack...but the combine is much more interesting to me (not sure how dad will take it tho). 

The D&RGW caboose idea is interesting, how close are the other details such as steps and cupola? 

As I am sure you know, after the fall of large numbers of NG lines in the US after the boom, equipment went anywhere and everywhere for the lines that continued to operate. Buyer's market for sure. So anything is possible with the cabooses. Try sorting out OR&W boxcars sometime!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif 

As for the EBT steel cars, I have a set of plans here on the coffee table, and I think someone had an article in GR on scratchbuilding such a car?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

.....actually..... 

The sales were not even just then, I remember now when we had a family trip to the EBT in the early 1980s, they were loading up some hoppers that were sold to some other line for rock/ballast service.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By mocrownsteam on 06/20/2008 5:13 AM
Pete, 
EBT steel boxcar kit? Who is putting that kit out? 
Your EBT train looks great!!!! 
Thanks. 
Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts




For the EBT steel boxcar kits, check with Bob McCown over at LargeScaleCentral. They're really a semi-kit. He provides acrylic cut to size. You provide the styrene angles and other parts. The latest pieces have lines scribed for the angles and holes for the grab irons. 

It makes a fine looking boxcar. 









I've got a little more detail on building them here: http://www.jbrr.com/html/all_steel.html 

You can view the directions here: http://largescalecentral.com/articles/view.php?id=60 

I ended up building 6 of them. 









Down to 5 right now, as I traded the EBT 181 for one of Rich Yoder's hoppers. I did buy three more of the kits from Bob, but I haven't started on them yet.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

So anything is possible with the cabooses.

..some hoppers that were sold

Unfortunately, EBT had (has!) so much equipment that it is a one-way business. The Cumbres & Toltec took five hoppers a few years ago - here's one rebuilt for ballast use in CO: 









_( From  the unofficial homepage for the East Broad Top Railroad maintained by Chris Coleman.) FYI - there were about 200 hoppers parked on the railroad when the lights went out in 1956. Most are still there if you know where to look. Here's an example: 
http://www.spikesys.com/Bin/EBT/17832.jpg_ 

In other words, you won't find someone else's caboose running on the EBT - they still have 2 good ones and, as Kevin notes, there were a few interesting cabooses in the past to choose from.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 06/20/2008 7:36 AM 

In other words, you won't find someone else's caboose running on the EBT - they still have 2 good ones and, as Kevin notes, there were a few interesting cabooses in the past to choose from.







So the EBT did not buy any hacks secondhand? Interesting. I know they got a lot of other stock secondhand as the NG lines died out during the late 1800s-1900s....


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

So the EBT did not buy any hacks secondhand? Interesting. I know they got a lot of other stock secondhand as the NG lines died out during the late 1800s-1900s....


The EBT bought very little secondhand. With the exception of 50 cars purchased from the Hancock & Calumet in 1902 (40 hoppers, 10 flat cars), all of their freight equipment was built new, either by Billmeyer & Smalls, Pressed Steel Car Co., or mostly by the EBT's own shops. They were very skilled--and prolific--when it came to freight car construction. Passenger equipment is a different story--about half of the EBT's passenger roster came from other railroads. Most were added in 1916 from the Au Sable & Northwestern and the Boston, Revere Beach & Lynn railroads. 

As for the cabooses, none were second hand that we know of. Six were built by the EBT shops, and two by B&S which date from the early days of the railroad. That accounts for all the documented cabooses, but that doesn't account for the "mystery" caboose that just doesn't fit the descriptions of any others. It's plausible that it came secondhand, but equally plausible that it was also built by the EBT. I used the D&RGW caboose not because of any intended legacy, simply because it's a commercially available short 8-wheeled caboose that sort-of matches what is seen in photos. 

Later, 

K


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks again, sounds like time for more homework on my part.


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## carpenter matt (Jan 3, 2008)

The best part of this thread is, it is about an eastern portotype! 

I'd love to get that expensive book on the OR&W R.R. seeing how they went kinda paralle with the W&W R.r.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt: 

The OR&W book "Hidden Treasures" by Cass is (was?) not all that expensive, maybe $50 or so? I pre ordered mine back in 1997, signed copy. Get a copy, it is a VERY good book. My father met Cass, neat guy, I need to trek back to Ohio to one of the OR&W meetings sometime. 

I also got one of the limited hard bound "Narrow Gauge in Southwestern Pennsylvania, the Waynesburg and Washington" by James Weinschenker, also a signed copy, #29 out of some number.....pre ordered it too. I have the three NMRA newsletters from the 1970-71 that covered the line. We also have the Rails Northeast issue (cannot remember year, but 1970s for sure) with the article of when they last fired #4. We had two copies in my father's and my quest to get all the issues of Rails Northeast (we are about six shy), but my father gave the second one to Tim Sposato (of Ohio Central fame) as he was one of the people that ran her and he did not have a copy of the article. 

The older books on the two lines, "Bent Zigzag and Crooked" (Ohio Univerity's Alden Library had a copy in the Archives while I was employed there) and the "Three Feet on the Panhandle" are still not in my collection.....maybe someday?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

_Three Feet on the Panhandle_ was recently reprinted (and updated). I just checked Karen's Books, the dealer I got my copy from, and they've got it listed in both print and CD format for $31.95. While my copy is not yet as dog-eared as my copy of Rainey & Kyper's _East Broad Top_, it has so far been a very good read. There are two copies of _Bent, Zig-Zag and Crooked_ listed on  Abe's Books, starting from $115. I'd not heard of that one before, so I'll have to keep my eyes open for it. (While $115 isn't out of line for an obscure out-of-print railroad book, it is a bit rich for my blood at the moment.) Abe's Books also has copies of _East Broad Top_ starting at $60, which is a good price for the book. 

What other eastern narrow gauge railroading books are "must haves" for the library? 

These are the ones that would get packed up first in an emergency: 

_East Broad Top_ - Lee Rainey and Frank Kyper 
_Along the East Broad Top_ - Don Heimberger 
_Tommy Varner's Red Rooster_ - George Pierson (about the Tuscarora Valley RR) 
_Narrow Gauge Railways in America_ - Howard Flemming (later compiled and updated by Grahame Hardy and Paul Darrell (Originally written in 1875, it's a treasure trove of early narrow gauge railroads, listing rosters, milage, etc. It's also got fantastic illustrations of early narrow gauge rolling stock as well as explanations of early narrow gauge equipment design.) 

Later, 

K


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, may add a few to the list. I just bought myself a birthday present in the form of "The Birth of California's Narrow Gauge Railroads" so I have quite a bit of reading already  

The "Three Foot" book seems a bit fishy, CD and spiral bound.....legit publication, or a copy or a scan of the book?


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## carpenter matt (Jan 3, 2008)

Spule, that isn't a bad price, I thought it was more. 3ft on the panhandle (mine's the original Hardback) is a must have, between it and narrow gauge in SW Penn they ought to be sold as a two volume set. 

I wish Bachmann would contact Jim Weinshenker about blueprinting #4 for a model. He is now the care taker for the loco #4 at the Greene County Historical society where the loco resides. He also has all of Larry Kohler and Morgan Gavert's historical documents from the Lyndon C. Roach collection that they used on 3ft. Not to mention a really nice Hon3 layout of the Wayensburg yard. Super nice Man.


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## carpenter matt (Jan 3, 2008)

Spule, It is a scanned reprint with added material, but is legit. 

BOY, my spelling is bad this morning! More coffee!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I will add that it's a very well done scanned copy--it looks better than many first-run books I've looked through. The spiral binding keeps the cost down. It's not as nifty-looking sitting on the shelf, but on the other hand, the pages stay open better. 

Later, 

K


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, you just cost me money. After reading your last post, I ordered " Three Feet to the Panhandle" from Karen's Books. Can never have too many RR books covering the small and obscure. 

Larry


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## DrVibes (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Kevin, I have wanted a copy of the "panhandle" for some time, but used copies sell for $ 250!!!!!! This will suit me fine.


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