# minnow winterizing question



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm new at outside water features. I'm going to net some minnows and place them in my canal which runs beside my RR tracks. 

My water pump (Geoglobal partners FP170AS, 14A, 60 Hz Smart Pond Impedence Protected) should not be used below freezing so I'll likely shut off the pump over the winter.

I live in N. Va. and the canal is about 9 inches deep.

Can the minnows survive if the canal ices over?

I suppose I can just wait and see, as the minnows are free and I can get more in a jiffy if necessary, but just curious and hope someone has some advice for this topic (besides buying a different pump)

Thanks.

Dave V


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## Sonny (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi Dave, 

I have a pond in the backyard about 3 feet deep at the deepest part. I have about 10 Koi and range from 6" to 12" long. I need to put an filter water pump in the pond to keep the oxygen in the water during the winter and also to keep a hole open for the oxygen to mix with the pond water. you may just have to make sure that there is a hole in the ice so that the fish can get oxygen. 

Sonny


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I'll have native 1" minnows and my pond is a lot less deep. In nature, the ponds ice over so I'm wondering if the whole hole idea has merit. Obvriously, koi are expensive and need pampering 

I just called the pond pump company and they said the cold water might make the pump crap out. Maybe should have gotten a better pump


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Ponds 
Filters don't add oxygen, they remove fish poop and debris. Where the returning water splashes into the water, adds the oxygen. It's where water can absorb oxygen from the air. 

Your fish should be fine under ice, their metabolism slows way down, they do it in nature all the time. 

When it gets freezing cold turn off the pump and let the pond hibernate until the spring thaw. 

Pond pumps shoud be rated for dirty water, pool pumps aren't. Yours should be ok. You can always go better with the next one... 

I maintain a koi pond off my RR and use Microbe-Lift to help clean the water and add oxygen. It adds beneficial bacteria that eat the dirt and helps keep the water clear. I use www.pondbiz.com for my supplies. Algae-off is advertised for removing algae from waterfalls and stream rocks... I'll be getting some this week and will report on it's result. 

John


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

thanks, John, I'll report back next spring to give the skinny on this; not experimenting with koi so shouldn't be disaster either way; tho I'd prefer not to harm even a minnow


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

I keep my ponds open with stock tank heaters. Either floating or on the bottom. I have both kinds.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

My uncle, who used to ice fish in Wisconsin, mentioned that they would occasionally find a fish frozen in a block of ice when they made the fishing hole. With the current power drills all that would come up would be fish meal for sushi.

I must add that on more than one occasion, by uncle could be known to stretch the truth.

My father was a university chemistry professor. He did a lot of wiz-bang demonstrations in his freshman chemistry lectures. One lecture involved very cold liquids (liquid nitrogen). Some of the examples that I remember were: making a hammer out of mercury (froze mercury in a small box with a wooden handle sticking out) and freezing a rose (it shattered when hit with the mercury hammer). He also put a live gold fish in the liquid nitrogen and froze it solid. He then took it out and put it in a fish bowl. Once it thawed out it swam around as if nothing had happened. I think that fish have chemicals in their cells that prevent damage when frozen.


I would be more worried about birds discovering your minnows. There is a high probability that they won't make it to winter. I have known several people here in northern Virginia that had small ponds in their garden with fish. They would come out one morning and one or more were missing. Racoons are another possible problem.

Chuck N


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

This makes me think of earlier this season here in W Ny where I noticed teh blackbirds stealing the dog food out of his dish. I noted over the weekend that they aren't around doing that now. Makes me think I'm going to have an issue with the birds eventually. 

Chas


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

We always dug ponds/lakes to have at least 16' of water in them to prevent a winter fish kill. Oxygen is replenshied by aquatic plants..if you kill off the plants the fish will die. I've never heard of fish hibernating in the winter?? How can we go ice fishing if all the fish are sleeping? We drive out onto the ice and actually use a fish finder sonar to find them in the winter as they move all over the lake.
To me your best bet is bring the fish inside and put them in a aquarium for the winter. 
Then again in these parts it gets below zero in the winter.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Fish also have a high temperature threshold. Trout can't survive at temperatures above 60 degrees or so. Wild fish go to a cool part of the river, pond, or lake when it gets HOT. A 9" deep pond could be more toxic in the summer than ice because there isn't any where to go to cool down. I live next to a 4 acre pond and fly fishing is as important to me as much as trains. With the weather we have been having in northern Virginia this summer, I haven't been out in my canoe since early July. The fish are down deep and very lethargic. It isn't worth the time, effort and sweat.


Chuck N


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 09 Aug 2010 08:49 AM 
In nature, the ponds ice over so I'm wondering if the whole hole idea has merit.
Posted By Totalwrecker on 09 Aug 2010 09:31 AM 

Your fish should be fine under ice, their metabolism slows way down, they do it in nature all the time. 



Problem is, nature is a lot bigger than a small backyard pond!  a big natural pond might freeze over completely, but there is a huge amount of water in it.. the fish will have enough oxygen to survive. and in most streams, even if its frozen over, water is still flowing under the ice, bringing in fresh oxygen. a small backyard pond is a MUCH smaller ecosystem..it doesnt hold nearly as much oxygen.. if its frozen over solid for weeks (or months, around here) the fish can run out of oxygen and suffocate and die.. even when their metabolism is very slow.. thats why you have to keep an open hole in a backyard pond all winter.. for gas exchange, so the fish can breathe..because the pond is very small.. its a very different environment than "real nature".. Scot


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

My uncle had dug and installed one fo the small (think 3 x 4 foot or so) preformed ponds next to the foundation of his house here in W NY. While there were times it froze over solid it was only for short periods of days not weeks. The fish have survived that fine for a few years. I believe that the heat loss from teh house (heated basement) has helped some but I'm no expert. Anotehr uncle has a lving stream in his basement. the original idea was to observe the minnows and such that were trapped and brought inside into a large aquarium in the basement office of his house. A trench was dug outside and a loop of piping was run to control the temperature of the water comparatively to the outside seasonla temps. What he found was A) the fish go dormant in the winter if the water temp drops B) they do fine without a seasonal adjustment. So teh loop of tubing was cut off years ago. He has minnows and a few other critters from teh creek on the back forty of the farm. It's an interesting fish tank really. 

In terms of the canal I'd be more worried about the concrete cracking in the winter freeze with water in it? 

Chas


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Chas, It's a hybrid, liner sandwiched between 2 layers of concrete so it doesn't really matter if it cracks. 

I'm amazed that your pond froze over solid (even tho briefly) and the minnows survived.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Scott, 
I was the fearless kid playing in ponds and around their edges, my observtions are just that. Nobody cut holes in the ice and every spring the fish were still there. 

There are fish in Antartica that have anti-freeze blood and they stay active in the coldest of waters, but here in the warmer US of A the fish are not so equiped! 

Being cold blooded they do slow way down to near suspended animation. I suspect your need to let the pond breathe comes from rotting vegatation that releases poisonous gasses that can kill fish. Failure to release those gasses might be the cause of your die off. It would be easy to think you were letting the fish breathe instead of the pond.... Pure speculation here folks. 

just another observation. 

John


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Are these battery minnows or track power minnows?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Torby:

You caught me. I never thought about electric minnows. I've spent the last three years experimenting with electric eels. So far, I've been able to get the train to run forward, but when I reverse the eels, I get shocking results. Unfortunately, I've burned up three engines so far.


Chuck


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

Nine inches is not enough, they will die
a canal is not a pond 

fish do not hibernate, they're metabolism slows down thou 

there needs to be a break in the ice, an open water spot for the fish when pond freezes over
Talk to someone at a garden center that carries pond supplies and fish to get a better understanding of this


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