# Hartland Locomotive Works Quality



## Steeeeve (Sep 10, 2008)

Hi,

Another newbie question on my part...but at least this is the right place for them.

I am just wondering about the quality of HLW and experiences with them. They are made in the US from what I can gather but seem to be priced less than Aristo-Craft and USA Trains which are made in China. So is the quality worse or better? Why is there a price difference? Why aren't they making Diesels and more products!?


I can't find much on these guys.

Thanks.


Stevfe


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## Steeeeve (Sep 10, 2008)

Of course my next search and I find this: http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...ge/1/view/topic/postid/9083/Default.aspx#9083 

In any event, I'm curious about whether or not they will come up with any diesels. Any ideas?


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Good quality running stuff but most is non-prototype, roughly 1:24 scale and a bit toy like. Most is made from old Kalamazoo molds and a some old Delton passenger car olds. All the steamers are from the same parts. They do have a bit of a niche in the trolley and electric market and their mini line is fun for bashing. Their motor blocks are known to be durable. 
I just got a pair of Birneys that will be detailed soon - 










-Brian


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Details can always be added by the purchaser. When it comes to sheer guts and pulling power,
Hartland units are hard to beat. I set a Bachmann Heisler for the NMRA polarity (opposite the large
scale norm) to see how well it would fare against the smaller Hartland Big John. Big John dragged the
Bachmann Heisler backwards as it struggled to go forwards.

No diesels available from Hartland. The closest to a diesel is the Mack "gasoline mechanical"
(well, it's really a sparkie like all their other power units). The Mack prototypes had a 4 cylinder
Mack gasoline engine under each hood. Depending on how many cars needed to be moved, the
engineer cranked one engine or both engines.

So far my Hartland motive power includes: Big John (loosely based on the Dunkirk geared steamer), the
4-4-0, the Mack switcher, the Birney trolley, the interurban combine, and the steeple cab electric (another
adaptation of the Mack switcher chassis and cab).

All these units run and pull well, without my having to fuss much with them. For me, that is the real beauty
in a piece of motive power.

Yours,
David Meashey


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

At the Chicago Botanic a mac switcher took the place of the *&# cog engines that wore out on the cog railway. 

The old heartland trolly continues to outlive the 2 A*# trollies that wore out. 

They just don't stop working.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

The quality is excellent. They just keep going and going and going and going. I run 10 or more of their power trucks in their locomotives and ones that I've bashed. As Tom posted, I've changed the other rack locomitive drive with Hartland. 


They are easy to fix, parts are readily available and they are sooooooooooooo 'bashable...


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Good Stuff, used the Macks for several bashes, they just keep going and going and going so I'm a happy camper!




















































Great source for making Critters...

Sometimes I think I'm their best customer...at least for Macks!!!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Even after V Smith has had his way with them, they keep working.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

They must like it, they keep coming back for more


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

HLW engines and rolling stock are vey durable. I have yet to hear anything negative about them. I currently have the Big John and Mack. I also have a few flat cars, mini series log cars and a caboose. They are very easy to kitbash. They are not as detailed as Bachmann but they are much more durable and you can easily detail them. I am a hudge fan of HLW products bth for quality and price.

Big John with HLW flats repainted.









HLW mini series log cars with LGB porter, all repainted









HLW caboose (Still have to repaint ect...)









HLW flat mini series. (Currently being made into a small tender for my porter.









HLW mini series gondala converted into a tender (Currently my snow plow)









HLW gondola (was tender)









This just give you an idea of what can be done for very little money


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## Steeeeve (Sep 10, 2008)

So when are they going to make a diesel! 

Also, does anyone have a picture of their gearbox?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

I did some checking in my reference book History of Mack Rail Motor Cars and Locomotives, and
thought it might be interesting to post the information for everyone's benefit. The prototype to
the Hartland Mack locomotive was unique for two reasons: 1. It was a gasoline mechanical
locomotive. All the others were either gasoline electric or diesel electric. 2. It had a special frame
to hold the transmission, which was designed to accept power from one or both gasoline engines.
The other locomotives which used the AC type hood had much lighter frames.

The locomotive was completed in May, 1921. It served the various Mack manufacturing plants in
Allentown, PA from 1921 until 1946, and was designated as switching locomotive number 1. Each 
gasoline engine had 40 horsepower, for a total output of 80 horsepower. The locomotive weighed 
33 tons. Its top speed was a very modest 9 mph!

I modified my Hartland Mack to resemble the sole photo in the book of plant switcher number 1. I 
have added Kadee 831 couplers since the photos below were taken.




























Have fun,
David Meashey


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steeeeve on 01/07/2009 7:19 PM
So when are they going to make a diesel! 




I dont think we can really answere that question. You might have to call them for that answere. They are very good their when you call.


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

I would be very surprised if HLW came out with a diesel model anywhere in the foreseeable future. With the exception of the Mack and the trolley models, the HLW line is based on a series of molds from Kalamazoo and Delton. Phil Jensen has been upgrading various molds and adding new parts and details over the years, but a diesel would mean making all new tooling; an expensive step that some might consider unwise in this present economy. Still Hartland has pulled a few surprises over the years... 
Chris


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Phil was eyeing my Whadahellizit's (the pics above) at the last BTS







, but yes some surprises indeed may be in the works, the 2-6-0 was entirely new tooling. its pehaps the ONLY engine on the market that I really really want. Grizzly Flats version of course.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

The Mack could be easily reworked into a representation of a GE 25tonner like this, but with the Bachmann Davey already out there I doubt they would want somthing so similar:










BUT >>> I think HLW would have Winner if they did a second Mack-type engine based on the GE 25ton Boxcab:










This engine would be easy to use the same drive brick from the Mack and minimal reworking of the Mack chassis, all that really needed is a new body shell.

Some neat info about the Boxcab:

http://sbiii.com/jfcageir/ageir40.html


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## geb (Feb 15, 2008)

Their web site does not offer a “cart” for ordering on-line, but I have had good customer service when calling Becky Cable at 219-362-8411. 
Bill


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## BNGP10 (Jan 4, 2008)

From what I have read online, the new 2-6-0 motor block is designed with great flexablity in wheel arrangements, So I would be looking for variations in thier steam line up. I myself am hoping for a V&T ten wheeler based on thier 4-4-0. Phil bashed one for himself, and many times those models become a HLW model in the future. The V&T ten wheeler is an excellent starting point to bash a ICRR 4-6-0 like Casey Jones rode to glory in 1900. I am doing some swapping with a fellow member tonight for a HLW 4-4-0 to run on my line. I have heard nothing but good about thier line up as long as your not looking for the scale realism of some other brand offerings. But for my tight and check railed curves, the HLW 4-4-0 fits the bill perfectly, and its made here in the states! Well mostly made here, I am not sure where they are sourcing the motors from, but the rest is molded and assembled up in Laporte IN. Cheers Mike and Michele T


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Vic,

Just noticed that this thread's been dead for awhile going by the dates.

After scanning thru it, I believe HLW has hit on something they may possibly not be aware of:

1) Build acceptable (define as you like) offerings that can be 'up-detailed/graded' by the buyer.

2) Build durable power bricks.

3). Put effort into customer relations.

4) Offer parts (like spoked driver sets) separately.

5) Price all of the above reasonably.

Would that B'mann would catch onto this--but why should they? They're fat.

Les


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have always found HLW to be interesting, and have always heard positives about the product. Honestly, if it were not for the large collection of LGB, this is probably the direction I would go in terms of comments about the durability and the items in the product line.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Spule,

Had I known as much about HLW when I first started collecting 'stuff' for my RR, the money I spent elsewhere would've gone to them.

I made a minor miscue--not my fault, because of extaneous, boring difficulties--in not getting an HLW 'runner set'.

My difficulties were only minor: wife's washed out business, no room, storm damage to home--hey, not worth mentioning.

Were some newbie to wander across my path, I'd say, "Go for HLW to get started. Wish I had!"









Suppose I'd done that. Being old and rather easily contented, I'd probably have stayed with it, ignoring the darts and arrows of 'nonprotypical' and whatnot aimed at them. Then, 'bashing up to F scale would've been a lot more straightforward.

So soon old. So late, smart.









Les


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I fear that LGB's prices, if and when they return to the USA market will rise above what most average modelers are willing or able to afford. This is espicaly true if they go solely thru Walthers for distribution. Thats about like shooting thy self in the foot. Prices will be in the range that only those with above average disposable income will be able to afford the better locos and cars. Even with the economy in a rut, prices for LGB have remained strong on ebay and at shops that still have stock remaining. If LGB doesnt ever do any more USA prototype stuff, it will be up to Hartland, Bachmann and the others to fill the void. Lately, Bachman has really forgotten what customer serivce is, as well as quality issues rushing product to market. HLW gets kudos for being USA made, very robust construction both in body work and drives. This makes them excellent for bashing into other prototypes. They also fill a void of smaller is better trains that work on small garden railways. With track prices thru the roof, and most other companys making huge locomotives ect. They fill a need with affordable trains that run on tight curves. When I picked up my used DRGW Vonita Jean tonight, the build quality feels like LGB, which up till now is what I mainly owned. My rolling stock is all Bachmann for the moment, but I have a couple of old Delton cars in layaway at the local hobby shop. He also has several boxed Kalamazoo freight cars and some LGB. HLW does well by doing more with less capital investment in new tooling, I bet they are sitting pretty secure right now, sales are down I am sure, But they will continue to bring interesting new items to market in the future. Cheers Mike


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Well, the local resturant has totaly worn out thier LGB Spreewald locomotive, wheels are concave on the tread from wear, gears are shot, motor is drawing intermitten high amps. A cleaning and lube didnt help much. I have him talked into getting a new locomotive, but not LGB this time, with parts and support still an unknown and obviously at much higher prices for certian. He is planning to get a Hartland 4-4-0 to run on his overhead loop, and probably a couple of thier passenger cars. So we will see just how durable thier drive system is. I ran my 4-4-0 today and it performed like a champ. Atleast parts are avaible on their models. I am very impressed with thier product in the day or so I have owned one. Thier build quality feels like LGB to me. Other than no track skates, which I wont miss the sound of them sliding on the rails. The 4-4-0 also picks up on all 4 wheels on the front tender truck. I cant wait to get our garden line rebuilt and raised up 3 feet above ground in a huge planter box, getting to old to squat down and make a nice garden anymore. Cheers Mike


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Les, your post was interesting, but one point is important. The Hartland stuff is Made here. Bachmann stuff is made ELSEWHERE. Completely different philosophy, and the Bachmann boys in Philly do not drive the boat..er...train. Hartland has an easy time to get parts, walk over to the bin and pick it up. Completely different from the Philly situation where in the only source is broken stuff. 
jonathan


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

K27--

Your observation is well taken. However, I wasn't thinking of B'mann at all. What I was thinking of is the small starter set LGB puts out. Or did. It may have sold out by now.

Besides the things I mentioned about HLW, I forgot to include that kits for their cars are available. I have three. I am under the impression motor blocks, complete, can also be bought from HLW in a very straightforward way: send money, receive item. I'm given to understand that there are 5 versions of B'mann Annies/bug maulers/what-have-you, and if the howls of indignation and confusion around here are any indication, getting parts for at least the early ones is very difficult. Getting any kind of service is apparently not easy. I have no direct knowledge of that.

The production philosphies you contrasted are interesting. It appears HLW is beginning to be noticed seriously, judging from posts on this board. I don't know why they're not red-hot sellers, unless it's their smaller scale (1:32??) and plain-jane detailing. I buy entirely from the used market, so I'm certainly no authority. But HLW's strengths appear to be underappreciated. If they can hold the line on prices while B'mann lets theirs float, they may become more oft-seen on layouts.

Les


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, bits for LGB are making a return Stateside as we speak. Contact Silvergate with the needs. 

The other interesting bit is HLW is a small part of a larger plastics company. So hopefully, they are weathering the current economic situation, many in that business are not right now, especially if they are doing automtotive work.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I know of the parts for LGB slowly trickling back into the States, I get all my parts for the LGB repair work I do from Dave Watts or Train Li. He Spreewald needs all new drivers, new gears, new motor and maybe more. He would rather get a USA prototype locomotive with much easier parts avaiblity at this time. The future for Marklin/LGB has yet to be writen, they can just as easily go belly up or survive and prosper. I hope its the latter one, as its a shame to see what once was such a powerfull force in G scale do down this way. He is keeping the Spreewald and waiting for parts show up and see what it will cost to rebuild the locomotive.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Good Morning, I'm new to this forum, but I do own a HLW Jupiter, the 4-4-0. I have run the tires off mine...lilterally!

Took me a while to figure out why it would pick odd places to run off the track. I'd put it back on and she would run ok, then I got on the other side of the loco and noticed wheel wobble.

Could be the hot Az climate and a slight grade and Aristo's Sierra Passenger cars, all combined to cause enough drag that the powerful engine block broke the glue bond.

That is my one complaint, the plastic driver wheels. After reading this thread tho' it come as no suprise that they are. It's too bad there's no mechanical key to lock them in position. Glue in triple digit heat is the weak link.

I had to renew the super glue cure this year.

John


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

John, I would just ring up Hartland and order a new set of drivers for it. Once they start coming loose, its time to replace them. Looks like a fairly straightforward job to replace them. Mike


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Totaled,

Hey, Dude, WELCOME!!!

You'll find this a very friendly place, which dumb questions (my specialty) are nicely answered.

Les


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 02/26/2009 9:47 AM
Good Morning, I'm new to this forum, but I do own a HLW Jupiter, the 4-4-0. I have run the tires off mine...lilterally!

Took me a while to figure out why it would pick odd places to run off the track. I'd put it back on and she would run ok, then I got on the other side of the loco and noticed wheel wobble.

Could be the hot Az climate and a slight grade and Aristo's Sierra Passenger cars, all combined to cause enough drag that the powerful engine block broke the glue bond.

That is my one complaint, the plastic driver wheels. After reading this thread tho' it come as no suprise that they are. It's too bad there's no mechanical key to lock them in position. Glue in triple digit heat is the weak link.

I had to renew the super glue cure this year.

John


Welcome to MLS, John!

I agree with Mike. I would call Phil on Tuesday or Thursday and explain the situation. I think he will help you any way he can.

Take care,

Matt


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a note about the plastic inserts on the Hartland wheels... I've been using 8-10 Hartland power trucks most every day on the PCSRR. Some of the run 12 or more hours a day and yes, I've had to do some fixing on them. I've found that Loctite Super Gel fixes them real good. The last fix was over 6 months ago and the wheels I've fixed with the Loctite have held that long. 

One of the long running sets run on 4 foot diameter curves which is very hard on them. The others run on a 22% incline RR up and down with those stresses. The others run on 8-12 foot diameter. 

Our temperatures have ranged from 10 to 100 degrees over those 6 months. The trucks just keep on working.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Thats great info Stan, thanks for sharing! I am hoping to pick up either a second Hartland or a Kalamazoo 4-4-0 as thats what my wife and I both want for our two locomotives. For now they willl get run indoors. I pulled up the whole garden line to use the track indoors. A new garden line will be reborn, hopefully this summer depending on if I get a decent job. Mike


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for the warm welcome. 
I think I'll wait before I replace the drivers, did notice the wear from running on Stainless track. A couple of operating seasons and they'll be concave. I wonder what metal HLW uses for the tires? Might be time to get a metal lathe and turn my own... Steel on steel would wear a lot better... or perhaps I'll use a machine shop to make 'em. 

I'll know more after the batteries go in... that's this spring's project and I'll be opening it up. 

I used super glue because I was lazy and didn't take the side rods off. I relied on capillary action to get the glue inside. This year I used an accelerator for a better glue cure. We'll see how long it lasts. The first cure lasted a year and was the only operating loco on the pike, now she has a sister and should last longer... 

John


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