# 1/8" x 1/2" SS Flat Bar Track - First Attempt



## adfundum (Oct 26, 2013)

I am a newbie, and everyone has told me not to build track but I like the challenge. I also cannot stomach the expense of commercial track. I live in Michigan and have wide temperature swings resulting in contraction/expansion issues. I plan on running rail powered locomotives.

*Assumptions:*
Coldest Temp: -20 Degrees F
Hottest Radiant Temp: 150 Degrees F
Temperature Variation: 170 Degrees (170 - 20) 

*Growth Coefficients: *
Aluminum = 0.0000123 Brass - 0.0000104 Stainless Steel 0.0000080

*Doing the math on 400' of track: *
Aluminum would expand 10.0368" (170 Degrees x 0.0000123 x 400' x 12) 
Brass would expand 8.4864" (170 Degrees x 0.0000104 x 400' x 12) 
Stainless Steel would expand 6.528" (170 Degrees x 0.0000080 x 400' x 12) 

*On Material Selection: *
*Track:* 
I have also read numerous remarks about how aluminum will oxidize in a very short amount of time which inhibits conductivity. This can be sanded off but will shortly return. Way to much maintenance for me. Brass tarnishes which affects conductivity, requires maintenance and is expensive. Stainless Steel has the lease amount of expansion characteristics and is the best of the three in regards to conductivity and tarnish/corrosion characteristics. Buying in bulk from my steel supplier I can purchase #304 Stainless Steel for $8.53/12 Foot Stick which translates into a build cost of $1.42/Ft ($8.53/12*2). 

*Ties/Sleepers:*
I have explored many different materials which can be purchased at home stores. The best material I found so far was from Menards Item #4179863 which retails for $15.36 after tax. I chose it because it is impervious to rot, will not split or crack. The dimensions are 5/16" x 5 13/16" x 8 Ft. It has a nice grain pattern similar to commercial track ties and I don't even need to paint or stain it. I cut ties at 5/16" x 1/2" x 3 1/2". Factoring in kerf waste, I can yield about 240 ties from this stick. At 12 ties to the foot I can mill enough ties for 20 feet of track (240/12). This translates into a build cost of $0.77/FT ($15.36/20).


*Regarding the Build:*
I can knock the sleepers out in a very short time frame with a sliding jig I constructed on my table saw.

Cut 1: I rip the board down into 3 1/2" by 5 13/16" pieces (Grain was going wrong way on board);
Cut 2: I set my fence at 3/4" and make two passes (rotating stock 180 degrees) to cut the rail slots approximately 1/4" deep;
Cut 3: I rotate the stock 90 degrees and set my fence to 1/2" and rip the ties.

I am experimenting with different epoxies to fasten the ties to the rails.
Loctite Epoxy Instant Mix 1 Minute did not bond well and have emailed Loctite for their product recommendation.

I intend on testing the following brands (Some of which dry white so will have to be spray painted after cure:
Loctite Epoxy Marine - Looks promising
 Weldbond
Gorilla Glue Epoxy - has gap filling characteristics which will help snug rail to slot and dries clear

At this time I don't feel the need to attach the rails and ties to a substrate to hold rails in place. I am going to place my test build on the roof for the winter and spring to see how it behaves. I am also placing a piece in my pond and let it freeze in ice. 

*Crazy Thoughts:*
To reduce build costs (Currently at $2.19/FT) I might go with wood sleepers. I like the idea of PVC as the color is right and there is no rot or bug issue like wood. If I do go with wood I was thinking of boring a hole thru the bottom of the sleeper with a countersink bit to create a cone to intersect the rail and then tack weld from the bottom filling the cone with weld to hold sleeper in place. 

*Connecting Rails Together:*
Although I have not done so yet, my first blush was to take some brass sheeting, set it on my vice that is opened just larger than the thickness of the rail and two sheets of brass. I would then hammer the rail into the vice, forcing the brass to fold into a U shape. I would then use a product like SSF6 to braze the brass to the stainless steel with a propane torch in the field. I would lay a wet rag over the rails so my plastic ties will not melt. Another option would be to drill thru the rails and bolt with stailess steel screws and nuts.

*Power to the Rails:*
I was thinking about welding a stainless steel flat headed machine screw to the bottom of the rail. I could then screw on and power I wanted and it would be completely hidden by the ballast.

*Proof of Concept: *
I can email pictures of the proof of concept build if you have interest. It looks pretty darn good and promising. For $2.19/Ft I have a very robust rail system. Commercial Stainless Steel Track is at $6.49/Ft. I am building about 400' of track and that means a savings of $1,720.00. That is not chump change.


----------



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I think following your own path is more important than "the best recommendations." You know your skills, patience, tolerance for mistake, and joy in craftsmanship better than anyone! Learning by experimentation is fun, at least I think so. 

I'm also planning a first time outdoor railway next year, and I'm leaning toward aluminum (I plan to run steam, so track power didn't appear to make sense.) Though I care about cost, time is my biggest limitation in the hobby. I'm also slightly concerned about vandalism or theft. 

What do you think about using a "C" channel material instead of bar stock? That should be less costly, and you can drill and screw the rail to the sleepers. 

By the way, it's easy to post photos here if you have them publically on the internet - I use Google Picasa.


----------



## iaviksfan (Dec 27, 2007)

you might find this helpful. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/9/aft/128504/afv/topic/Default.aspx 

Its under homemade aluminum g scale track. We discussed this not to long ago.


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

http://picasaweb.google.com/101933014325341704583/DropBox#5943000534925369122

I've been interested in trying this technique for some time now....so I decided to try my hand at making some "groovy track" tonight. I bought 1/8in x 1/2in steel for rails and 1/2in square dowels for ties. The plain steel and mystery wood were chosen for experimental purposes only. 

I cut the ties to length and set them up in my milling machine's vice 6 ties wide with a little less than 1/4in peeking above the vice jaws. With an 1/8in dia end mill, and spinning at full rpms, I made the grooves at full depth in one pass per side. 

Check out the link above to see how it came out. I'm thinking, since I don't run track power, aluminum rail would be just fine. (probably sturdier than using code 332AL.


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

After building a sample piece to test the concept, I began thinking of two problems which you touch on in your posting. What's a good way to connect the rails? ...And how to keep the ties in place? 

I wonder if I may have a solution for both. Are you familiar with rail clamps? 
I envision a ss rail clamp at least 3/4in tall by 1/2in+ wide. It would join the rails at tie level (1/4in of rail sticking up above it). The mid 1/4in (of the 3/4in tall clamp) would provide the mounting location for the clamping screws. And finally the lower 1/4in would be drilled through (parallel to the rails) to hold an 1/8in dia s steel rod. The 1/8in rod would span from clamp to clamp acting as a retainer to hold the ties in place from below. Essentially, the ties will be sandwiched between the rails and rods. 

The clamps would provide great conductivity at the joints, but it could be made even better if you used the 1/8in dia rod below with a little set screw to keep it actively connected. Probably need a clamp every 3ft or so...even if there's no rail joint.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

experimenting with different epoxies 
Marine glues are a good way to go. They have to cope with very harsh environments. 
Have you thought of trying silicon adhesives? They grab but don't set hard. I also have some marine glue/sealant that fastens just about anything but retains some flexibility (I think it is a "Goo" product.)


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

s-4, 
I get a bad link...


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

picture
Oops! haven't posted a Picasa link a while I guess. It worked for me, but I'm signed in. haha
another view


----------



## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I think your effort is a noble one, and in the end if your happy then that's all that counts. 

But....have you considered your time into your equation for cost. This seems like a huge time sink project. 

We all consider our time free when we build things for ourselves. But, it really isn't free. That time you use to build your project, as in this case track, is spent and other projects don't get done. Or you loose time spent with family and friends. Your time has a value and it shouldn't be ignored. I always consider this in my scratch build projects anymore. Is it worth my time to do this, or can I find a suitable commercial product for a reasonable price? 

Just food for thought.


----------



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.switchcrafters.com/ez-catalog/X381875/14/SC-AR-332-16 

Just an FYI but Switchcrafters offers a bundle of 16 six foot long sections Code 332 aluminum rail for $58, this is better than the prices I have seen for bar stock aluminum and will work in a standard track bender to boot. 

PS Aluminum is not the best choice for track powered layout due to the surface oxidation, brass or stainless are better choices


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jake3404 on 06 Nov 2013 10:29 AM 
I think your effort is a noble one, and in the end if your happy then that's all that counts. 

But....have you considered your time into your equation for cost. This seems like a huge time sink project. 

We all consider our time free when we build things for ourselves. But, it really isn't free. That time you use to build your project, as in this case track, is spent and other projects don't get done. Or you loose time spent with family and friends. Your time has a value and it shouldn't be ignored. I always consider this in my scratch build projects anymore. Is it worth my time to do this, or can I find a suitable commercial product for a reasonable price? 

Just food for thought. My thoughts exactly.


----------



## jwalls110 (Dec 12, 2012)

What is the difference between what he is doing and hand laying rail? 

Why scratch build at all then? 

It is after all a hobby and this is his interpretation of it. 

If we all use the boxed stuff all the time there would be no innovation. 

Good luck adfundum and s-4. Report back! I for one am interested!


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Posted By vsmith on 06 Nov 2013 10:52 AM 
http://www.switchcrafters.com/ez-catalog/X381875/14/SC-AR-332-16 

Just an FYI but Switchcrafters offers a bundle of 16 six foot long sections Code 332 aluminum rail for $58, this is better than the prices I have seen for bar stock aluminum and will work in a standard track bender to boot. 

PS Aluminum is not the best choice for track powered layout due to the surface oxidation, brass or stainless are better choices 

I'll second Switchcrafters as a great supplier. I ordered 250" of aluminum code 250 track a 2 years ago and it came very fast. I also think that their 1:20.3 ties (Micro Engineering) look the best out of them all. The rail and ties have a nice tight fit and look great. The best part is at the time, this was almost the most economical new track one could buy at about $3.00 a foot. For my live steam layout I wouldn't want any other brand.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Squash another's endeavours? Not my job.... 

1. Rail connectors; file flat off sets so two together look like one. Pin or rivet. 
2. Drill through tie and rail at angle and push in brad nail to hold in place. For rail in grooves. 
A mechanical fastener will hold better in most situations. My environment kills construction adhesives. 

Have fun, I understand a fixed income... I have way more time than money. 

John


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I enjoyed my experiment with groovy track, but I'm not so sure its for me. In aluminum, the cost savings is not there (vs switchcrafters code 332) but in stainless, it's still possibly a good option. I think it's a great idea to keep experimenting and to see how it winters before fully investing. 

The switchcrafters company seems like a great alternative. One thing I really like is... the made in USA label on the micro engineering stuff!


----------



## Blk69 (Dec 6, 2009)

I was think the same thing about fabricating my own track when I was sticker shocked by LGB brass track. Unfortunately my time is somewhat limited and world prefer scratch building structures and such vs track. 

My compromise was to get used LGB track for around $4 a foot from Ebay. It would have been interesting trying to fab my own track and switch works. Best of luck to you and post some pictures of you prototyes. Would like to see your progress and thoughts as you proceed.


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

adfundum, 
Just a thought about rail surface finish.... The steel bar stock I bought had a very rough edge that needed to be ground and heavily sanded. I would be sure to take this extra step because many of our trains do not have steel wheels. Brass and mystery pot-metal cast wheels will wear out over time even when used on smooth commercially produced stainless rails. I've actually had the flanges wear completely off of LGB and Aristo wheels. I would imagine wheel platings on locomotives would also be at higher risk of failing. It's not a deal breaker, but it is something I would take into consideration. 

As mentioned earlier, if you could find or make an 1/8in x 1/2in stainless steel c-channel you could mount the channel open-face down and use in the same manner as your bar stock. This would be cheaper, potentially, and would offer a better overall surface finish and it would already have a rounded edge. 

Have you seen Bachmann's steel track yet (provided in their sets)? This would be a similar idea, except youre substituting stainless sheet for steel.


----------



## adfundum (Oct 26, 2013)

*PROOF OF CONCEPT PICTURES:
*Yeah I know I did a bad job gluing but I didn't care as this was a proof of concept only* 


















What I took away from this:
[*]Gauge is perfect as the slots hold the rails. [*]Loctite's 5 Minute Epoxy does not bond with the PVC material I used [/list] 

I am moving on to my second Proof of Concept utilizing the following adhesives:
[*]M1 Structural Adhesive/Sealant (http://www.chemlink.com/index.php/c...icle?id=65). I selected this as it has a great service temperature, flexible and compatible with Stainless Steel and PVC. Color is Black which is acceptable. [*]JB Weld KwikWeld. Fast Setting. Color is Dark Grey. [/list] 

I am leaning towards the M1 as it has proven itself on roofs in the Midwest and is very inexpensive. Also the color will hide very well.


----------



## jwalls110 (Dec 12, 2012)

I don't know about the rest but I think it looks good! 

Keep posting!


----------

