# Bman Shay QSI Installation went bad. Help



## Elysian Valley (Nov 16, 2008)

Hey Guys,



I had attempted installing a QSI Magnum card in my Bachmann 2 truck Shay using
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/bgshay.htm 
as my guide. 


I went through and made all the connections as per the site. Set the engine on rollers with a Digitrax
Zephyr and 8amp booster. I gave it power and the Bachmann board smoked







.

I went and wired everything back, and gave it power with an DC controller, and only the back trucks
Move. The Front trucks are dead. I somehow blew something on the Bachmann board or the second motor.


How do I trouble shoot the problem. I'm hoping it's just the board. My experience with electronics is limited.

So you'll have to make it clear for me. 


I could not find a wiring diagram online. I first want to make sure I have everything connected properly to the original
Shay board as it was shipped. I just reversed the online directions.


Thanks

Ralph


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's difficult to teach someone how to debug a wiring problem. 

If I had a picture of the circuit board (both sides) and a schematic I would be able to help. 

The only thing I could recommend is to try applying DC power to the motor leads, which were on #11 & #12 and see if the motors work. If not, then repairs are in order. 

If that works, then you need to verify that the track pickup wires are really connected to the wheels they should be. 

My guess is that there is a connection between a motor lead and a track pickup lead, you need to verify with a ohmmeter that there is no connection between either of the motor leads and either of the track pickup leads. 

If this works, hook these 4 wires only to the qsi and see what happens, it should run, if not, the qsi is damaged or you did not test properly. 

When that works, then you can try adding the lights. 

I cannot tell what the procedure does, since it explains nothing, and in fact admits to not knowing what one particular wire does. I would abandon the Bachmann boards and connect all lights to the QSI (with appropriate resistors of course). 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Elysian Valley (Nov 16, 2008)

Thanks Greg... 

If I can't get anywhere on my own and have to send it in for repair. Do I send it 
in directly to Bachmann? 

If I screwed this up once, I'm not sure I want to re-attempt 
installing the sound card again as my electronic experince is non existance. I also have a three truck Shay I want to install a card in. 
I'm in Los Angeles. I'd rather pay someone to install it for me. 

Does anyone know of a store or private person that does sound installs? If there is no one in 
the Los Angeles area, anyone else that I can Fedex the engines to? 

Thanks


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Unless you really want to keep the fire box flicker, you don't need the bachmann board. With the QSI magnum, you can wire motor leads and the lights directly to the decoder eliminating the bachmann board and more potential headaches. If I remember correctly, when i pulled out all the wiring in my shay there was about 3 feet of unneeded wire in there. 
Also there are a few fixes that can be done to the shay to make it a top runner. 

Terry


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ralph, I would give it a try yourself. I can help a lot if you take pictures, and I have some time on the phone during most week days (I have a one hour commute). 

It's not too tough, and as Terry has stated, pulling the old boards out will probably be the best way. 

I live in San Diego and commute to Anaheim. (are you close to Anaheim?) 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Elysian Valley (Nov 16, 2008)

Okay Great...I'll pick up a multi meter and check things over. 
I'll definitely need the guidance. 

I'll post an update in a day or so. 

Thanks


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Good deal... send pictures (if needed) and email me at [email protected] 

so step one, verify track and motor leads, use lowest setting on ohmmeter, i.e. shows lowest resistance scale, like down to 10's of ohms... this usually means an analog meter with more than one resistance "selection" or a digital one that resolves down to ohms automagically... the idea is to be sure you have a good low resistance path from the trucks, and also you can tell the motor is there (some resistance) as opposed to a short circuit (zero ohms) 

Then when you have verified that your 4 wires are independent of each other, connect them to the qsi and give it dc, you should get sounds and movement around 6-8 volts dc... 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

ALWAYS be sure when using the Ohmmeter that power is NOT applied to the circuit or parts you are measuring! 

I screwed up once and got 120VAC house power across my very fine Simpson meter and now the needle looks like a question mark and it smells really bad... and obviously no longer works, either.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep the old saying live and learn. Later RJD


----------



## Elysian Valley (Nov 16, 2008)

Okay..Things turned out for the best. 

The motor is working. Connected directly to the motor and had movement. 
I have Red/Orange for the pickups & Black/Green for the motor. 
After working my way to the card I found a break in the green wire. 

After re-soldering the wire, I'm getting both trucks working. Big relief. 

This is the first time having to work with an electrical problem on large scale trains, so I was a bit intimidated. 
I have had N scale most of my life, which there isn't much going on in the way of wiring. 

So I can proceed to wiring the card. So you guys had said the board is only for the firebox, correct? 
Since QSI does not support the fire box, I should get rid of it? 
I am using a qsi 3" speaker with a large magnet. 
I would like to cut down on the wiring, so maybe it is a good idea to get rid of the Bachmann board. 

Tomorrow I'll sit down and follow up on how to wire the card. 

What wires can I get rid of? 

Thanks


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

The board is the hub for everything. Track power in, truck power, headlight/rear light, cab light cab light, firebox/ash pan flicker out. Personaly I can't see the firebox or ashpan flicker unless it's dark out and I don't usually run in the dark. The cab light gets brighter the more voltage you put to it. Not very realistic. Plus they didn't have the cab light on in the day and as above, I don't run in the dark. So, take all that away and you have the motors and the lights, both of which the QSI can run. The only thing I don't know is if the QSI will be able to dim the lights on the shay. I always take out the LED and put an incandescent lamp. 

Also, I don't know how big of a smoke fan you are. I found I never used it or forgot to turn it off and burned them up, so I took that out to. Along with all that wiring is the Large scale/NMRA switch which is basicly a polarity switch, I take those out as well. When I am done I have two wires for the front light, two for the back light, and two wires to each motor. BUT, I run battery so I don't need track pickups. You would also have wires to track pickups.

Once you open the loco up, just take your time, trace each wire and mark it, remove what you don't need. Bachmann's board makes it look far more confusing than it needs to be.

Terry


----------

