# Bachman 4-4-0 and AMS Passenger Cars



## railgeek (Jan 15, 2008)

I recently purchased a Bachmann 4-4-0 D&RGW Alto Rito and also one of the new AMS passenger cars.
Both are 1880's models, however, the AMS passeger car overwhelms the 4-4-0.
I realized the 4-4-0s were somewhat diminuative engines, however.
Is the Bachmann 4-4-0 of a smaller prototype build or are the Jackson and Sharps just large passenger cars?
The LGB passenger cars look much more proportional the the AMS.
Thanks,
Marc


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

The 4-4-0 is tiny. The cars, for the period, are on the large side, being more like the "modern" narrow gauge cars that followed, with very little change. 

The LGB cars look more "in proportion" to you, probably, because a standard gauge, usual size 4-4-0 would look about that size with its coaches ... consider the stuff you see from Railtown with the 2-6-0 (which is very similar in many respects) with the smaller standard gauge cars, or the train from "Wild Wild West" This engine is MUCH smaller....prototype wise.

See if this helps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9d2WhZ7kHo 

Matthew (OV)


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, that's a great clip Matt!! Thanks!!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Passenger cars that were contemporary with the 4-4-0 at the time it was built (c. 1875) would have been just over 7' wide. The production of these "narrow" coaches didn't last too long. There was an early design practice that stated cars should be no wider than twice the gauge of the track. This meant that by 1870s practices, a 7' wide car was pushing the envelope. However, experience trumped theory, and designers found they could build cars wider and still maintain stability. By the early 1880s, most coaches were being built to just over 8' wide. The biggest advantage to the extra 12" was that they could install double seating down both sides of the aisle, instead of the off-balance single-double arrangement in the older cars. This increased the capacity of each car 33% without adding but a few pennies to the construction costs. 

The LGB and Bachmann coaches scale out to right under 7' wide in 1:20.3, which is perhaps why the look so nice behind the loco. The prototype cars would have been a bit taller, but the small size of the loco makes it quite suitable for pulling the LGB and B'mann cars. Here's a shot of my dad's former 4-4-0 pulling the regular passenger run on his line. 










Compare to this shot of the same loco (after a repaint) pulling a 1:20 passenger car on my railroad. 










You can see it sticks out quite a bit from the sides as well as over the loco. (And this car sits around 3/16" lower than the AMS coach does.) The AMS car measures out to 8' 1" x 38', which is surprisingly average for the size of narrow gauge passenger equipment. Most 3' passenger equipment was between 8' and 8' 6" wide, and lengths varied from around 35' to 45' minus the end platforms. So, while it does tower over the 4-4-0, it would have on the prototype, too. 

Later, 

K


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Just for fun, I tried to find some pictures of the Eureka and Palisade #4 on the Durango and Silverton.  

Some interesting journalist shots (I like how tiny the cab appears)
http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=out&article_path=/outdoors/out030825.htm


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## railgeek (Jan 15, 2008)

As always,

You guys are GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll do some work on the AMS to lower it a bit, however, still want to be prototypical.

I liked the comparison of the Eureka and passenger car.

I'll order another coach,  modify it into an observation/parlor car and wait for a baggage or RPO to be released.

Thanks again,

Marc


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Marc,

Its guys like Kevin, what with their fancy pictures of the model with standard LGB cars that keep me thinking about getting one of these engines.  I have been really tempted by the Olive Green 4-4-0 and look forward to seeing one in person in York in a few weeks.  It would be a slight depature from my current 1/29 mainline steam and diesel phase, however, and I'd basically wipe out my entire ECLSTS budget in one go!! However, it would look great handling strings of wood reefers or LGB passenger cars...

Mark


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Marc, see my  EBT #3 thread for some ideas for lowering the coach. In my mind, it makes a world of difference. 










On the left, the combine photographed behind TVRR#5, shown above. On the right, the AMS coach, lowered about 1/8" at that point. (I lowered it another 1/16" after this photo was taken.) 

Later, 

K


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## railgeek (Jan 15, 2008)

Mark, 

I'll be at the York Show Friday and Saturday. 

Hopefully see you there. 

Marc


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Marc,

I will see you there.  By the way,  no thanks to Kevin and you (for starting this thread), I now find myself the owner of a Bachmann 4-4-0.  I decided to forego the new green one in favor of a undecorated on I plan to paint up like the current scheme of the William Mason, only lettered for the Millersvillanova.  The new locomotive even has a name, Estelle, after my dog's middle name.  I am going to have to figure out how to paint one of those really fancy bucolic scenes on the side of the headlight box of my dog!!  Maybe I can make something using iPhoto and print it out, and glue it on somehow....

This is my first piece of 1:20.3 equipment, but I plan to haul LGB and USA and Bachmann 1:22.5 equipment with it.  Maybe even the occasional 40' boxcar. 

For fun, here's a picture of the William Mason (Mason Machine works, 1856) under steam last Spring at the B&O RR museum in Baltimore.  This is supposedly the oldest operating locomotive in the country. They have relettered her to B&O, but I don't know how real this scheme is.  I like it anyway, and don't care about the authenticity for a B&O locomotive. I may try and contact Bachmann about a Radley and Hunter smokestack.  The Mason's stack is huge!










Luckily, I have Kevin's garden RR article on painting and disassembly of this engine, so I can take her apart and repaint.  I am thinking that I will use some of that automotive pinstriping to do the boiler bands and tender stripes.  I'll have to try my hand at modeling making the fenders for the drivers.  

Here's a link to a page with more pictures of the Mason, without the crowd control fences.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPicture.aspx?id=58463

By the way, the engineer in the photo is none other than Chris France himself.  Here he is at the cab.  










I am really excited about getting my first 4-4-0!! 

Mark


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, 

Here in the UK automotive tape is too wide. A tip from David Fletcher - get some sticky back plastic, and you can cut with a sharp knife down to .8mm (,032") with care; that is what he has used and I used it on the tender of a 4 4 0; even that is a bit wide, but you won't really get beneath that. 

There is some vynil tape made for radio control planes called 'Trimline' (uk website for an illustration - http://ripmax.com/5index.asp?category=T6700&selectedtab=130, and from another site a better description copied as below 

Strart of copy

TrimLine Self Adhesive Coach Line. 

A 2½ metre length of 8 different width tapes on one roll. 
Widths: 0.5, 0.8, 1.3, 2.1, 3.3, 5.0, 7.0 and 10.0 mm. 

The specially developed material adheres well to all surfaces and can be taken around tight curves without shrinking back and can be shaped around compound curves easily. The range of sizes from 0.5mm upward means there is a size to fit all models from the smallest train to the largest aircraft. 

end of copy


Alas the narrow width is the only one I would use! 

David Fletchers Aristo 2 8 0 'Music Pass' uses it on the tender flare, and here is a quick 'grab photo' photo of my repainted & not yet finished 4 4 0 with all the red being the sticky back plastic tape.  You should be able to get other colors and the roll which is 18" wide will last for ages!

Thanks for the link, those  photos are interesting!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you go to a _good_ art supply store (not Michael's, Hobby Lobby, etc.) you should still be able to get Chartpak tape. This is vinyl or mylar tape (depending on color) that is available in widths down to 1/64". I just picked a roll up for my business car. Cost me all of $5, I think. I forget how long the roll is, but it's PLENTY. 

Later, 

K


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Also, from the photos, Krylon's "Hunter Green" should be darned near spot-on for that green. 

Later, 

K


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin,

I have an excellent art supplies store called AC moore.  I will check their inventory.  They might even have the Krylon paint, too.  I imagine it would be pretty easy to do this repaint.  But I will have to find tape to do the boiler bands and also the domes.  I might leave the smokebox and smokestack as is.  Maybe I should start a blog on this to track my progress..

Thanks for the tips, and sorry I hijacked Marc's thread!
Mark


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Go for it Mark, and definitely put up a thread. 
If you ask around, you might be able to get a stack from the AMT 'General' kit, that is a stack muck like the one on Mason. It wont be as large as the photo, but in the right direction. Engine #25 was built for the B&O, so only had the one owner! Named 'William Mason' in the 1890s, some 10 years after Mason's death. early photos of some of her sisters indicate that, while rebuilt many times since 1856, her general appearance is much like the style of Mason's engines from the late 1850s. Dark green was certainly one of the colours used by Mason, with a colour lithograph existing from 1867 of the Highland Light in dark green with red/orange wheels. However the colours on the loco today are from the film 'The Wild Wild West', Will Smith etc. The loco was rebuilt to working order and repainted for the film and has kept the colour scheme, with change of name etc (she was called the Wanderer in the film). I think its a good job for the era anyway, depite what some have said about it, but would only replace the green boiler with Russia Iron (not the sky blue on our Bachmann, but the dark gun metal grey colour). 

My Music pass model pete mentioned in lined entirely in vinyl, domes and all, and the 2-6-0 'Shou wa no' is also lined entirely in vinyl! 

Have fun with it. 
David.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The bands on the stock boiler are painted brass. All you need to do is remove them before painting (which you'd want to do anyway), strip the old paint off, then put them back in place. No need to worry about tape for those. 

Later, 

K


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