# Working on the North Table Creek (revisited)



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Not sure which topic to place this under so I followed JJ's lead in the title.
This thread will be about breathing new life into a cut down and changed GRR. 
I've really missed running long trains but its very hard for me to focus on two large projects at the same time and not go crazy.
I also miss the great friends here on MLS and that's why I am starting a thread.
I have been out in the train shop cleaning and sorting cars. Making room to work again.
All the new dirt work yet to come with the ride on RR will help this GRR in its maintenance of the yard work and all the over grown plants.

Everything that you know on the driveway side of the GRR will remain the same. the center in front of the gazebo will change some. The big grain elevator and eastern high line is all gone.
So for those who don't fallow facebook, we can chat here.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

There Is a season for everything under the sun Marty!

Must be time for the GRR season ...eh!!

Good luck...luv ta see ya back where you can run decent trains that are long in the real sense...like your full length unit hopper train...power at both ends...!!

Thanks for bringing us along buddy...I know the work an frustration that can be distracting sometimes. Hang in there..
Long trains..longer trains...longest trains!!!
Go fer it !!

Stay warm too...been wet here..more on the way!! Makes the desert sorta damp...

Dirk


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Very nice Marty, are you removing the elevator completely, or just changing it?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks,
I've had to use the parts from the elevator on the 1". 
I am done sailing any G trains for now, I have enough money for the rest of the 1" and its starting to support its self now in builds for others.
But who knows, I can always build another.
raining now, been long dry spell here.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Good to see you " back " Marty. I learnt a lot from your building style. I was beginning to think the MLS was slowly dying with so many of the old modern diesel crowd not posting anymore.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am also glad to see you posting again Marty. With practice one can learn to do two, three, or more Projects at the same time. I do it because sometimes I run into a snag and have to think about it . Well I go to another project while I contemplate the snag. Right now I got a building to put on a pad. It is sitting up on blocks and I am contemplating how to splice into the Layout in two places so I can direct trains for either direction to the barns. . I am also contemplating classification tracks between the two buildings. I am also thinking about my next building which I think it going to be a power plant. 

JJ


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Well then Marty...what about a new rural centered grain bussiness...a fresh building group.!!?

Sometin for your unit grain train to stay in business for!!

;-)

You've certainly inspired me to build one in my rural area!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Good for you Marty. Maybe you can sort of re-engineer the layout for lower maintenance, from what I have read, the weeds and plants have been an issue.

A nice wide right of way with a spray car with roundup is one idea.

Regards, Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Gee JJ, that is a lot of thinking. You could get a headache.
Marty,
Sure glad you are getting back to the 1/29. Cutting back on the size and some redesign will certainly help.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

And you always tried to get me to make mine bigger! Glad I didn't, as I age it seems to get larger anyway.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Good to hear that the old GRR isn't totally dead. I've pushed myself to even keep my snmall oval cleared of weeds but haven't run trains on it in two years. I'm hoping for this spring. We will see. Several projects going to happen this winter. One of them being cleaning up the workshop so it is workable. 

Chas


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

40 + degrees on Sunday, I will try to get out and clear out roadbed and take some photos for future Ideas.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Sounds better than a couple good days of rain....

:-(


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Marty,

'Good to see you back into 1/29 layout. I always enjoyed reading about your doings.

Thank you so much,
-Ted


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, that's great news! 2015 will be a 1/29 scale revival for sure! Somebody tell Kader to fire up the plastic injection machines!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Simple fix by installing double track through this area and abandoning the tunnel.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Go for it!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

So glad that you're getting back into GRR'ing Marty. You (and JJ) were the main ones I followed on the concrete roadbed, so I'm doubly pleased.

Speaking of which, since you're so quick with laying the 'crete ribbon, have you considered running more of that to cut down on your foliage issues?


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Cliffy if you look close he does have crete ribbon under the track it grew right over it


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

For years I kept up, but then we got into rentals (6 properties with 18 units), 4 plus grandkids, then 1" . so its a mix of things.


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's my version from a few years back: http://forums.mylargescale.com/11-public-forum/3624-rockwall-canyon-work-train.html
Over the course of every garden railroad there comes a time when the weeds will prevail!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

s-4 said:


> Here's my version from a few years back: http://forums.mylargescale.com/11-public-forum/3624-rockwall-canyon-work-train.html
> Over the course of every garden railroad there comes a time when the weeds will prevail!



Well almost every... I watered my weed, but alas it died.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Dick413 said:


> Cliffy if you look close he does have crete ribbon under the track it grew right over it


Thanks for pointing that out Dick, I sure didn't see it.
Ugh.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Marty

Are you still going to have a complete double Main Line? Two complete ovals? What about More Sidings or Industrial Areas ?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ, waiting for you to come up this spring to build them. Yes on 2 complete mains.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Marty, do you want industries? I would be willing to contribute a new grain elevator. Smaller one than what you had, older style to maybe.

Chris


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I was out repairing the staging areas wood rail in the shop today and vacuumed it all up. 
Very nice out. Raked some . Went ahead and sprayed the grasses just because I did. LOL
Minersville will be mainly a station stop only. Took out the switches and this spring just rework the roadbed to tie in the curves. really starting to miss the old girl. but man?? How did I ever do it???


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Minersville was my favorite place.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Good to see progress on the railroad Marty. Will you be moving the bridge or taking it out completely?


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, eras come to an end. It was great! Hopefully you will end up with a layout you can manage into the coming years. I'm sure it will still be special and have your stamp on it.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Marty, I've got a question for you about the concrete roadbed. Currently, mine still stands proud of the soil by maybe 2", and this spring will involve backfilling and top-soiling.

I was going to lay more strips of landscape cloth beside the roadbed, pour pea gravel on (say, 2-4" wide, either side), and put in topsoil outboard of that (pulling up the edge of the cloth as a barrier between dirt and gravel). Basically, adding a sort of barrier, or at least not have plain dirt up against the concrete ribbon. I know that the weeds will cross it, but I figure I should try something.

Could you share some comments / insights on this? 

Thanks, and keep'r going!
Cliff


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Casoran or Noxall the roadbed just as far out from the centerline as you don't want anything to germinate or grow. Should last a year.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Cliff
2008 I think was the year or summer I spent lots of time building rock retaining walls, weed barriers, edging , water control ,etc. last maybe 2 seasons. I just have to keep on it and use weed killers or stoppers. I need to look in my photos and see all the work I did, wire mesh behind rocks has still proven the test of time and woow is it hard when I tried to brake it out.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I'd not heard of those Paul, thanks, I'll check. Marty, I guess the weeds always win at some point... But it sounds like maybe certain techniques worked better than others for you, in regards to what went up against the concrete?
Sorry, don't mean to sidetrack your thread, but thanks for any pointers.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

No problem, its open topic to friends. LOL


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

NTCGRR said:


> Hi Cliff
> 2088 I think was the year or summer I spent lots of time building rock retaining walls, weed barriers, edging , water control ,etc. last maybe 2 seasons. I just have to keep on it and use weed killers or stoppers. I need to look in my photos and see all the work I did, wire mesh behind rocks has still proven the test of time and woow is it hard when I tried to brake it out.


Good to see your RR is going to be around in 2088


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

It is nice to hear that you are coming back to the G scale side at some level. I have never been to your layout, but have enjoyed the excellent photos on this forum over the years. Even if it is a bit smaller of an effort on your part, it will be good to have it up and running. Then we can enjoy the excellent photos again. 
I met you several years ago in York, when you did a seminar on photographing outdoor railroads. I learned a lot from you. 
Paul


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dick

Thanks Paul, lots of fun shows back then. I miss all the folks, but when your here by yourself most of the time , it can be hard.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

First year we went to Marty's for an entire weekend. Had nothing to run and still had a great time. Somebody always handed my son a remote and let him run their stuff. He was even tought how to fire a Live Steamer by the Arkansas boys. Chandlor turns 18 on Saturday the 17th and we have greatly enjoyed G-Scale every since this photo was taken.








Glad to see the Garden Railroad hasn't left you all together Marty. Thanks for all the good times.

Chris


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

18 ,wow, happy birthday. Its on to girls and cars,, or trucks. LOL


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Dick413 said:


> Good to see your RR is going to be around in 2088


Oops... 
I meant 2188.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

This site is SO slow and takes me so many tries just to post something its almost not worth it.
But besides that, Yesterday while the north 1" loop was being graded I got all the sections of the NTCGRR lines dug and almost ready for roadbed. No photos but the double track and retying in of the south loops will be easy.
After seeing Dennis longest train video it made me want to run trains again.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't think the site is slow, you might check your internet ping and bandwidth.

when the site is slow, go to www.speedtest.net and check your speed, and report back.

Has not been slow in weeks.

Regards, Greg

p.s. congrats on keeping on the bubble with the layout


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Marty, when you double track the loop, will you add or replace the bridge over the new canyon you made a while back?


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Maybe the reason it slow for Marty it is still cold in Neb. Here is the West we had 80-90 degree days.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, is the tunnel still going to be in use?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg for the info. ( this is the only site I have troubles with.)
I will get drawings to help explain it. I picked up most of my stuff so this weekend I hope to go after it. then you'll see and understand better.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty, this site is indeed more complex, so if you do get an internet slowdown, it could be that it shows more on this site than others.

Regards, Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Also, This site does not like IE. I have to use Google Chrome when visiting this site. NO, other site gives me problems using IE like this site does.


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## Mark Thomas (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty,
Good to see you back. After a long hiatus, I'll be getting back into running trains in the great outdoors.

-Mark


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I gave up on I E a long time ago. I use Godzilla Fire Fox. My sister took her computer in to be checked out. She ended up buying another one. The guy who sold it to here put on Fire Fox. She is more happy now. 

JJ


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Marty, are you leaving room for this on your new plan?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Godzilla Firefox, now JJ that IS *FUNNY!*

I'm going to use that!

Greg


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

So that's how you use a pondering chair 

Tommy
Rio Gracie


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Lots of places to relax and take it easy.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

tmejia said:


> So that's how you use a pondering chair
> 
> Tommy
> Rio Gracie



Isn't your RR suppose to be a dream? How else you going to get Ideas than dreaming? 

JJ


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Concrete roadbed is so nice, dig away the weeds from the sides and hose it down with water and she is ready for fresh ballast.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

NTCGRR said:


> Concrete roadbed is so nice, dig away the weeds from the sides and hose it down with water and she is ready for fresh ballast.



Seems I heard that somewhere before 

How long have you neglected it? Mine was almost 2 years. 


JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think that plants grow on their own at Marty's, JJ, not a fair comparison to your somewhat more arid environment 

Greg


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Grass grows in the desert too.... 
When it rains twice as much as normal... yearly
In just a 9 month time frame....
Spring has blossomed fully well this year..
My desert world is as green as it can be...
..... in mid summer..
Yet some days still feel like winter!

Lots more ta clean up...

The desert is alive..!!

;-)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have never seen any grass in any of JJ's pix though! 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Marty gets grass, we get thorns.... different plants, similar problems.
John


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## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

Marty - time to start spraying glyposate (Roundup) on the right of way to kill what's already greened up. May 1st is a good time to start with pre-emergent. Maybe a week or so earlier if the weather stays warm this spring. There are cheaper things than Princep, which is mostly a pre-emergent mixed with fertilizer. I'm guessing that any ol' crabgrass preventer would work OK. Make sure it isn't also a weed killer, which would kill broad leaf weeds like dandelions but could also kill trees and shrubs.

the other Rodney


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Marty,

I noticed your topic and just wanted to say "Hi".

Jerry


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

Wow, I may need to visit here more often to check on Marty. Been away for awhile...............Jim


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

HI Jerry
I was wondering what ever happened to you. Your name comes up in a good way once and awhile . At least your still alive. LOL
Thanks for the links Jim, good to hear from you also.
Hoping to spend this weekend laying track in G. But 80% rain Sat and sunday. bummer.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Marty,

Everything is fine - just older and less energetic and less mobile. Fortunately everything is built so I can just lay back and play with the toy trains.

Jerry


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi Marty, glad to hear you're layin' G again.

Since you've taken out a bunch, kept a bunch, and are planting more now, can you share a rough diagram of the new design, and how it will fit in with the 1-inch?

Cliff


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff , Here is an old map. Red is the changes to make a simple double loop. Yellow is all gone now.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Marty, that helps a lot. Seems pretty straightforward, not much new track to lay, and you still have a pretty massive G layout. 

Great to see (I still want to get out there some year!)

Cliff


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The bridge you put in at MINERSVILLE is that still there? 

JJ


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

New silver one ,yes.
Could not think what it was labeled under. It needs to be finished also. I also put new ties on rail this afternoon and worked at still cleaning the shop and making it useable again.
Minersville is ONLY run through, no reason for any one to walk up there. Everything is gone.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

As of tonight, all track on both mains is connected , most over growth is cleared. Need to cut dirt build up on sides down in places where past wash overs has happened. Maybe this weekend I can ,,,run??


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Sounds like you are making progress Marty, good to hear.

Chris


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

another easy way to get into the GRR and pool area. Yes, Carrie's pool is now behind those bushes and you can see the table on the patio to the right. That was one of our agreements to me building the 1" RR up here. LOL


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Those are nice looking walls you build Marty. GRR is looking pretty good.

Chris


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I agree, really nice walls, and I'm so glad you're rejuvenating your layout. 
What wall-block product is that?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Another HOT day. In the photo by the buckets was a road to The Holy Roller Divine Garden Railroader church. And at that church did I receive my vision years ago for an empire for all to enjoy. LOL. But years later I turned to the dark side of 1" scale trains. Now its just hard to bring this RR back to life. If I did not have the money invested in the 2 buildings and concrete, I would rebuild it up like Robby did. My goal is to make the riding mower work well on the inside of the loops. And any plants and buildings will be from the loops to the wall.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Are there any plans for the G rails to go over the 1 scale? Maybe over the cut?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

in the beginning I had thought of the 1" under the G but the grades would not work. At this point in time I have way too much to do on both.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

more work going on.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Sure looks beautiful Marty. I'm so impressed that you were able to re-imagine things, and make it all work.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Since Minersville is gone along with the Bangs Canyon cut off, I am reshaping the double track curve to make it look better and weed control. More photos to come. This is just toe start to upgrades.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, are you not keeping the rebar off the ground so it is incased in the concrete ?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Would seem to be the strongest placed "mid thickness" from what I know.

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I lift it as I pour, its only 2" thick so this pre-used is alittle wavy old bar. I've had rebar that was flat on the ground and could still lift 12ft sections w/o braking them when removing old roadbed.
After the photo, the next batch was ready and I did the whole curve in one shot.

Plus, see, the rebar is NOT rusty red from being in cased in concrete for 12 years. I reused 90% of the GRR bar on the 1" trains and the broken concrete for water control.

The open house renewed my desire to see GRR run again and the fact that the 1" is about complete. LOL


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

For months I could not make up my mind on how much work I wanted to put into the 2nd canyon bridge area. So tonight I settled it. A retaining wall which will be back filled after I save the stones out that I want to reuse.









This way I can slop it enough to mow and still have rail fans see the trains crossing over.
Lots of work tonight.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good Marty, the reason I asked about keeping the rebar off the ground was if exposed to moisture is will rust, just like ice, rust expands cracking the concrete. ( Inspectors would fail our footer inspections every time for this!) I have no idea how long it would take for this to become a problem, if ever.....


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

That's fine. in this case I change my RRs to much to let anything rust. LOL
the top photo of this page the lines will be reworked also and changed.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Nice Marty, glad we could reinfect you with the G-Scale bug.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Really like your nice wide roadbed Marty. Looks great, and should cut down on the weed issues.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris or Chandler please e-mail me direct [email protected]

De-construction.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

NTCGRR said:


> Chris or Chandler please e-mail me direct [email protected]
> 
> De-construction.



Why are you De-constructing ?


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Marty,

GRR is looking great. E-mail coming your way.

Chris


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ, Over the years the roadbed has been changed so many times, that now I am rebuilding it into a one piece concrete main ,dbl track and checking all ties and upgrading , just because ...Its a "Marty thingy"...LOL









Bridges are gone, this is where the skid loader will go through to fill the old canyon and a new dbl track lift out bridge will be so the mower can inter the area. Many of the humps in this are will be shaved off so JJ can walk through w/o tripping.


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## Henson (Jan 2, 2008)

l see say the blind man.
looking fowardr to the final pictures.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

De-construction continues with renting a bob cat to smooth out and fill in this after noon.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Is that the site of your signature bridge, the one where group photos were taken?
I'm glad you have a new vision and motivation. It was starting to look like just ....

I have less energy so I'm leaving the ground and it's troublesome nature.

John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

So you took out the bridge that was just north of Minersville? What did you do with it? One can never have toooooo many bridges.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ. Both Canyon bridges are still there . Look 2 photos up and see the retaining wall I built to keep it in place.

Now, this is poured today because I got off early and did not want to sit around. Now this is an S curve. 16ft radius curves. (not diameter)


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yer movin along Marty... major work..big changes.. lots of fun I hope for You!

Your new curves are almost as large as my N.G.curves...17 ft + radius here...

SD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

almost???? LOL. there is always someone bigger. 
6 months ago it was planned to be ALL demoed out for more ride on trains.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

A "new" re-born "Vision"...just have fun buddy!


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

John J said:


> So you took out the bridge that was just north of Minersville? What did you do with it? One can never have toooooo many bridges.


I think JJ's asking if the "Bangs Canyon" bridge is still there. I wonder this as well because that was always my favorite. I watched Kidmann's aerial video and couldn't quite tell but it looked like it was gone.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Manco said:


> I think JJ's asking if the "Bangs Canyon" bridge is still there. I wonder this as well because that was always my favorite. I watched Kidmann's aerial video and couldn't quite tell but it looked like it was gone.[/QUOTE3
> 
> 
> I bought the Bangs Canyon bridge a while back and I just hauled it home when I was there this last get together. I dragged it along on my last road trip. I was asking about the other bridge that is parallel to the big MLS bridge.
> ...


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ, it is still there. which limits the curve , but I like it.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

This is a picture of the Dreaded road M that everyone says don't take 

It gets worse over the little lump


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

One must remember that Marty has a problem with Perspective. He said this was a small dump truck


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Just cleaned out the train shop work bench and fixed a couple of cars. G cars that is. Next few cooler nights since Carrie won't turn on the heat yet, I have to go to the shop to get warm.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

You can't have heat yet, will make you soft for winter


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)




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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Some good overview photos. Did you crawl up on the roof of your shop to take them?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful afternoon in Dec so I started working on relaying Main one up to the bridge I have yet to build. Photos next couple days maybe. LOL
yes up on the roof...


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

John J said:


> One must remember that Marty has a problem with Perspective. He said this was a small dump truck


No, that's pretty small....











...now THATS a BIG dumptruck


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

working on a simple lift out bridge for Craig's Canyon so the mower can go through w/o running over track. photos later. its dark out now. and it needs painted.
These two were sold and the new one will be dbl track bridge.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

ran across this on new years eve, old photo of the first winter here at this GRR.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Rail road changes looking good. Looks like you got rejuvenated and again enjoying. Later RJD


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I agree with RJ, Marty. Your changes/additions are looking really good. Puts me to shame!!

Ed


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Really looks different now Marty.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I definitely remember the old yellow bus....


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