# The challenge will soon be on the workbench



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Coming soon:










Kit build by TRS starting in Dec. 2012
Step by step process to be documented


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Charles, 
How soon? 
I understood that the grey ones are still a while away? 
Not true? 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

David

That was what I understood until a notice on Monday and the posting on Aster USA website:



*Posted 12/06/2012* *RTR Challengers in end phase of assembly. Second Challenger kit shipment in transit to AH USA.*
So, when Dan speaks I listen and followed his directions.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you Charles, if you can't trust your dealer who can you trust?


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 07 Dec 2012 05:18 PM 
... if you can't trust your dealer who can you trust? having just returned from Las Vegas last week, i'm not sure if i totally agree. 

s/n #006 due to arrive today... yipee!


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aopagary on 08 Dec 2012 08:46 AM 
Posted By Dan Pantages on 07 Dec 2012 05:18 PM 
... if you can't trust your dealer who can you trust? having just returned from Las Vegas last week, i'm not sure if i totally agree. 

s/n #006 due to arrive today... yipee!
Did Santa get there?
Wonder how many of the 120 are of the kit variety?


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By gibs035 on 09 Dec 2012 11:53 AM 
Posted By aopagary on 08 Dec 2012 08:46 AM 
... 
s/n #006 due to arrive today... yipee!
Did Santa get there?
Wonder how many of the 120 are of the kit variety?
whenever Aster showed a lineup of the in-house builds, i seemed to always count ~15.

yup, the FedEx Santa arrived Saturday, but i promised i would finish cleaning up the garage before i cracked open the box, so i put it in high gear today and got that job completed. tomorrow my only task will be to write out a property tax check (a drop in the bucket by comparison) and my schedule for the rest of the week is wide open...


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

my schedule for the rest of the week is wide open...  

I thought you were going to start building your Challenger.


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 10 Dec 2012 10:36 AM 
my schedule for the rest of the week is wide open...  

I thought you were going to start building your Challenger. 
well, yes... that's what i meant.

by the way... check the Aster USA Challenger page if you have a low s/n
there are 2 sheets of Errata posted...

www.asterhobbyusa.com/images..._x_928.jpg

www.asterhobbyusa.com/images..._x_976.jpg


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aopagary on 11 Dec 2012 04:16 AM 
Posted By Dan Pantages on 10 Dec 2012 10:36 AM 
my schedule for the rest of the week is wide open...  

I thought you were going to start building your Challenger. 
well, yes... that's what i meant.

by the way... check the Aster USA Challenger page if you have a low s/n
there are 2 sheets of Errata posted...

www.asterhobbyusa.com/images..._x_928.jpg

www.asterhobbyusa.com/images..._x_976.jpg

When you pay for premium you get what it takes to make sure things will be done right. Better the advance than a "recall" once the locomotive has been completed. Just image having to develop the manuals and the step by step process for this build. This will be a challenge worth the time and effort to really get to know the in's and out's of the Challenger. I am guessing that Ross is quite busy along the others who have received their Aster kits!


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, I can actually read the errata sheets and they make sense! Looks like the instructons have improved since 1984's Hudson!


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Dave, that is because this time Hans wrote the directions and not the folks at Aster Japan. Japanese translated instructions are about as legible as the Google translated ones from Regner. LOL! 

This kit has more illustrations which reduces the confusion which can result when too much "stuff" is put on a single page. Given the complexity of articulated locomotives, especially this one with its separate operating drain cock systems, reducing the number of building steps associated with each page is very beneficial IMHO. 

Challenger builders: relax and enjoy! 

Ross Schlabach


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 11 Dec 2012 09:16 AM 
Dave, that is because this time Hans wrote the directions and not the folks at Aster Japan. ...
well i found some other chores around the house today that chewed up the morning, but i did break open the box and spent the afternoon perusing the instructions. agree... what a treat it is to see the instructions without all the extra kanji characters mixed in. a LOT less clutter on the pages. i did notice quite a few references to piece differentiation (when somewhat similar pieces are included in the same step, a separate illustration typically points out the subtle difference) that are a matter of a mm or two. i have a feeling my digital calipers (mm & inch scales) while probably not necessary will come in handy. i see my least favorite step is inevitably still there (15-5, inserting the boiler into the boiler shell), but it looks like the forward ceramic sheet seal has been slightly simplified (only one wrap rather than built-up layers). it's also nice seeing a split smokebox since i can imagine things would be difficult to access given it's length if it was a single-piece cylinder. the flexible steam linkages do not look unusually difficult to assemble, but their design looks like an amazing piece of small scale engineering.

the note about touch-up paint on the first tender assembly page (25) has no explanation i can find. i suppose that might become obvious during construction.

as usual, Aster did not skimp on packing material and the project immediately becomes less intimidating when you realize that huge box pares down to a much smaller group of the familiar small blue boxes which in total are about 1/8 the size of the shipping box.

tender construction might start tomorrow.
cheers...gary


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

i've got to say that i've had better first day's of Aster kit assembly. it only took three steps before i had to get out the file and trim every piece of the tender truck faceplates before they would fit smoothly along the frame edges. having to do this also threw off the line-up of holes for securing the rigid tender truck journals which turned into the second problem requiring a bit of metal twisting before they lined up, but i finally got that assembly finished though taking quite a bit more time than it probably should have. in hopes that this will not be a theme, i'll see what tomorrow brings as the tender shell starts to get detailed.

just from the size of the tender, one thing's apparent right off...
this is going to be one huge locomotive.
cheers...gary


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Latest update....


*Posted 12/21/2012* *All Challenger kits are delivered.*

I am guessing shipping out after holiday and arrival for the new year!

A great way to start a new year with an outstanding locomotive build


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't believe the models pressure vessel (boiler) is smaller than the tender! This is one big engine!


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Gary, that note about painting the tender bearings is unnecessary. The factory repainted those before the kits were shipped according to Hans. I experienced the same fitting issues you did on the tender chassis castings, and you may have to file the opening somewhat to get the chicken feed tank to drop into place. But the loco chassis went together more easily. I did have to shim two of the crossheads guides to get smooth operation: a 1mm shim in one place and around a 0.5mm shim on another spot. But the results are very satisfying and the chassis (both front and rear) roll easily. I'm now up to valve timing and testing will come soon.

Happy holidays,

Ross Schlabach


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Ross and Gary, please keep the notes / tips flowing. John S. and I opened the kit on Friday with awe and wonder. We are trying to exercise our restraint and finish the Huson before turning the first wrench on the Challenger. (Just fitted the oil tank and are currently working on the simulated piping. The Challenger has pipe bending templates!! Oh my!!)


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

A quick exploration of the components for the build with a few chosen items to represent the many enjoyable hours of Challenger construction.


Challenger build Photo Log


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Here's something to share. The piston valve assemblies arrive with the valves inside the housings. These are a tight fit and you should carefully remove each valve (it will be tight), oil the surfaces of the valve and the housing bore, re-insert it in its housing and work it back and forth in the housing for several strokes until the movement is smooth. It happens fairly quickly. Do not sand the valves. This lapping process works just fine. You may also need to repeat this process with the pistons and cylinders. Both should be done minus the Rulon rings which are added later. The final result yields a smoothly operating valve and piston mechanism. Remember to wipe off the dirty oil before adding rings, clean the housing bores, re-oil, and finish assembly. 

Happy New Year, 

Ross Schlabach


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Challenger is now on the workbench. Having completed step 1 and step 2 in 2.5 hours (not stopwatch used) along with photos during the process

A photo log of this build with much more of the step process can be followed with this link:

Challenger build


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## pickleford75 (May 3, 2012)

thanks for shareing...... looking forward to seeing the continued progress


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

This morning I timed the valves on both engines and ran successful air tests on each. I must say that after building the Aster 9F for a customer, I knew I was going to prefer the piston valve design when I got around to timing and air testing the Challenger engines -- and I wasn't disappointed. Setting and timing this system is a breeze and is done with the system assembled and ready to air test. So you can run an air test, make adjustments, and re-run the test without having to disassemble anything. Oh, and -- way down the road -- if you have to replace the piston valve rings, you only need to remove the front end cover, undo the shoulderless screw holding the piston valve assembly and slide the piston valve out the front of the valve block. Change out the rings, slide the assembly back in to its valve block and re-install that screw, and the engine is back in proper time. Can't do that with slide valves! 

My one major gripe is that the linkage connecting the reverser between the front and rear engines has too much slop in the form of side to side movement, so I may make a modification to support the front linkage rod on the loco centerline at the back of the front engine. 

While running the engine air tests, do remember to test for the proper operation of the drain cock system now since that entire system will be later be buried under the boiler and any needed repairs will require the boiler's removal. The draincock levers need to be adjusted so that their full range of motion will clear the fittings and such under the cab, so time taken here should reduce frustration later. 
Hans shared with me that the hoses provided with the kit aren't the best sizes to do the air tests, so I made sure I had some small Model Airplane silicone fuel hose -- especially for connecting the air to the rear engine. My next steps will be to tackle the boiler backhead and pressure test it on completion. I've been cautioned that clearances are tight between the boiler shell and the boiler proper, so I'll make sure all exposed screw shanks don't extend too far into the interior of the shell; and fitting an overly wide piece of insulation around the inside of the mouth of the boiler shell may ease fitting the boiler into position. Sealer can be added later for an airtight fit. 

Good luck to other Challenger builders and Happy New Year, 

Ross Schlabach


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Round #3...seemed simple enough with about a half of dozen straight forward parts. Most setups of cylinder/crosshead guides are pretty straight forward with a bit of alignment, some filing and adjustments. This is a key step in making sure that muscle of the locomotive is able to move those cars behind it. Updated the overall build photos, see link

Challenger Build Photo log 










Well, one and three quarters of an hour later only one engine done. Started well but we got a time for "misplacing" one of the smallest pieces for an Aster part we have yet to deal with. Ten minutes later we found it about 6 feet from the workbench. 










The remainder of our time was devoted to getting the crosshead to flow smoothy, easily along the cross head guide. This required lots of filing and alignment. The other side cylinder/crosshead guide needed very little attention. We had anticipated some prep work on the parts, did some filing and sanding but the first cylinder to go together kept hanging up. Found some rough points around casting and burrs on the tracks.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

I am having lots of fun watching the builders log of this awesome steam beast being built. Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures here and at the link provided.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 03 Jan 2013 08:50 AM 
I am having lots of fun watching the builders log of this awesome steam beast being built. Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures here and at the link provided.

Steve

We always enjoy the challenge and excitement of a build that allow us to bring a bunch of part together to create a functional piece then add to that experience it is operational.... So, here is the front engine done in step 4 (about 2 hours of work):

Challenger build photo log 

Starting point for last evening:










There were three aspects to accomplish- drivers, suspension and double axle pump. Quite a bit of measurements and adjustments in setting up axle pump and suspension:










Front engine done regarding the basic components next will be the rear engine then rods, etc


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Another step completed- #4 Nothing difficult just having to re-tap 2 holes on the rear of the back engine for the suspension rods.

Challenger Build log

Starting point photo










Both engines completed with wheels, suspension setup and axlepumps


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

It has been a long time since I last put an Aster kit together, and I am NOT suggesting that Aster have not got it right or that there could be any kind of a problem. 
In fact, since they have been doing it so long, I feel sure that there will not be a problem. 
But, I notice that you have attached crossheads to the piston rods, it would seem with loctite. 
Now, the assumption is that when threaded in fully, when the connecting rod is attached, that the piston will be in exactly the correct position in the cylinder. 
Many years ago, probably on a King Arthur, I found that I had to 'un-thread' the piston rod to get an even throw in the cylinder. 
Maybe a temporary attachment of the connecting rods, and the removal of the cylinder covers will confirm that all is correct. 
No point having a limping loco. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Nothing difficult just having to re-tap 2 holes on the rear of the back engine 
Not difficult *IF* you have the requisite taps lying aound. 

How about adding sizes/sources whe something like this comes up - not the kind of thing the first-time Aster builder might have just sitting on the workbench?


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

David, regarding the centering of the piston, I think that Aster learned their lesson from older models like the one you referred to. I've built close to 30 Asters now, from Western Md. shays, to Daylights, to the Challenger and have never encountered a piston interference issue -- thankfully. In any of these models the biggest challenge -- other than proper timing -- is getting the best possible alignment in all three axes for smooth operation of the piston/crosshead system. 

Pete, the vast majority of the Aster fasteners are 2mm, but Aster also commonly uses 1.7mm, as well as 1.4mm and some 1.2mm. They on occasion use 2.6mm fasteners but I've never had a need for a 2.6mm tap yet. But I consider having taps for the other sizes as must haves to avoid broken screws.

Ross Schlabach


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 05 Jan 2013 10:41 AM 
Nothing difficult just having to re-tap 2 holes on the rear of the back engine 
Not difficult *IF* you have the requisite taps lying aound. 

How about adding sizes/sources whe something like this comes up - not the kind of thing the first-time Aster builder might have just sitting on the workbench? 

The need for items to be denoted outside the instructions is a good suggestion and I would/will if I had the time given the 6 others projects ongoing on the workbenches. As it is any additional time is taken just to process the photos and posts.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

These threads are a joy to read - and look at the pictures. Thanks for taking the time to document the process. 

I know I want to build a steam locomotive some day!


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 05 Jan 2013 12:18 PM 
David, regarding the centering of the piston, I think that Aster learned their lesson from older models like the one you referred to. I've built close to 30 Asters now, from Western Md. shays, to Daylights, to the Challenger and have never encountered a piston interference issue -- thankfully. Ross,
It wasn't interference that concerned me, just unequal volume front and back.
I have found that it is best to have that perfect.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

We have completed Step 5 and the rear engine on Step 6. During this process we deviated from the recommended process for prep of expansion link and block and complete it prep to step 6 because it is easier to do and check for moving of the block in the frame of the expansion link. The prep work on the link inside the frame is key to running gear and valve gear motion:

The numerous parts and process to complete step 5 & 6 is found on the link below:

Challenger build log


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles, Thanks for posting the link to your build, (not enough free time to build one myself). Have you changed cameras? I ask because the focus is lacking in some shots... not up to your usual standards... hehe. looks like it's going together nicely. 
Jeff


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff

Yes, camera card was full (that happen do to the numerous projects ongoing at this time) plus I am planning on doing a build video to which I will at times I take photos off the video and the close up ones do not focus well through that process. A good focus point off the video is as denoted in the complete step of the one engine in step 6.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles, Thanks that would explain it. Seems capturing stills from a video is very hit or miss.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Today I finished the boiler assembly and completed a successful air test with no leaks. The assembly of the gauge glass takes some patience to get the O rings into place over the glass and down into the inside of the gland nuts, but otherwise this step was uneventful. 

Next came the boiler shell detailing and assembly. I had spoken with Hans and knew clearances for the boiler inside the shell are tight, so I took extra time to make sure all bend over tabs were pressed down flush. I also used minimal amounts of epoxy to hold the casting tabs in place. 

Before the boiler is inserted into the shell, a pair of heavy molded steel sleeves must be fit around and clamped to the boiler. There are straps to hold them tightly in place, but you will have a lot of difficulty attaching these straps without some way to hold the sleeves tightly in place during assembly. In my garage, I had some large radiator hose clamps and these were perfect to tighten the sleeves in place. Then wrapping the straps around the sleeves and screwing them down was easy. Since packing compound is put on the insides of the two sleeve parts, I've left the hose clamps in place for the night and will tackle the final boiler assembly tomorrow. 

Ross Schlabach


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Does anyone know if the rear chassis for the Challenger is rigidly attached to the locomotive's body? 

Aster's website lists 2 meter minimum radius for the Challenger, yet 3 meter for the Great Northern S2. If I understand correctly, a limiting factor for turning radius is the length of the longest rigid component - in this case one of the three-axel drive units (assuming it is not the tender)? I found it noteworthy that the larger Challenger, even considering articulation, would be that much better.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The S2 is a 4-8-4, thus 8 drivers... the Challenger is a 4-6-6-4, thus only 6 drivers to the chassis. It does depend on the length wheel base of the drivers, but by wheel count I would expect the S2 to require a longer turning radius than the Challenger.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry, double post... that is the first time that has happened to me. I clicked Submit and it seemed to send it, but the page refreshed right back to the same display with my text intact in the edit box. So I clicked Submit again and now find two replies.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By BigRedOne on 08 Jan 2013 04:03 PM 
Does anyone know if the rear chassis for the Challenger is rigidly attached to the locomotive's body? 

Aster's website lists 2 meter minimum radius for the Challenger, yet 3 meter for the Great Northern S2. If I understand correctly, a limiting factor for turning radius is the length of the longest rigid component - in this case one of the three-axel drive units (assuming it is not the tender)? I found it noteworthy that the larger Challenger, even considering articulation, would be that much better. 
Rear engine is fixed and front engine swings


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Great Build Charles, I really enjoy being able to see how they (Aster and others) are doing things through your thread.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 08 Jan 2013 03:35 PM 
Today I finished the boiler assembly and completed a successful air test with no leaks. The assembly of the gauge glass takes some patience to get the O rings into place over the glass and down into the inside of the gland nuts, but otherwise this step was uneventful. 

Next came the boiler shell detailing and assembly. I had spoken with Hans and knew clearances for the boiler inside the shell are tight, so I took extra time to make sure all bend over tabs were pressed down flush. I also used minimal amounts of epoxy to hold the casting tabs in place. 

Before the boiler is inserted into the shell, a pair of heavy molded steel sleeves must be fit around and clamped to the boiler. There are straps to hold them tightly in place, but you will have a lot of difficulty attaching these straps without some way to hold the sleeves tightly in place during assembly. In my garage, I had some large radiator hose clamps and these were perfect to tighten the sleeves in place. Then wrapping the straps around the sleeves and screwing them down was easy. Since packing compound is put on the insides of the two sleeve parts, I've left the hose clamps in place for the night and will tackle the final boiler assembly tomorrow. 

Ross Schlabach Ross
We appreciate the advance on the next steps. The advise from you and Hans will be time savers in getting some portion done with having to learn the "tricks of the trade". We are on pause this week due to Ryan's sudden pending departure to Diamondhead and finishing one engine to take with him. Meanwhile I am going back to the photo log to label the photos and section indicators. Look forward to the completion hopefully by President's day steam and finalizing a video of the build process to go along with the photo log.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 08 Jan 2013 05:03 PM 
Great Build Charles, I really enjoy being able to see how they (Aster and others) are doing things through your thread. 
Randy

The aspects of kit building is one of the best experiences of the live steam hobby. Having the opportunity to know the locomotive from the ground up, along with the ins/outs of all the components are invaluable. Much is learned not only about the particular model but also what it takes to make an offering like this the available to the hobbyist....thanks Hans and Aster!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Step 7- Piston valves and revering gear.

Having met the obligations of last week's preparation of several locomotives to be shipped out, one going to Diamondhead with Ryan the Challenger is back on the work bench. The front and rear engines were completed in Step 6 with the driving rods. For 3 hours today worked on installing the first set of piston valves on the front engine. At times it requires patience, good eyesight and steady hands (all three can be challenged in this step). The pins, allen screws and locations for applications requires concentration. The proper preparation of the piston valve and careful application on the piston rings (both onto the piston and then into the cylinder) will make or "break" this step. Finally the step of inserting the dye block into the expansion linke and connecting with the radius rod required planning and good positioning to complete the coordination of this portion of the build.

Challenger Kit photolog 

Step 5 & 6 complete









Step 7 in progress









Dye block fits into the curve of the the expansion link..should be too difficult to screw number #18 through #17 while suspended in the air ..... but already mounted?? (see location in the last photo










Sorry but the "good" camera is down in Diamondhead so I had to pull video shots today but you can see several rods loose. The radius rod (long one from top center of photo to the bottom left) had to be balanced along with keeping stable the expansion link plus holding the dye block in the same plane as the expansion link then inserting the small screw (#18 link pin)to connect everything. Bet some wondering how much of the 3 hours of work it took to complete that portion on this step.... photo of area (not a good one but you'll get the idea)


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

I finally got to install the boiler on the chassis today -- a major accomplishment. On this illustration page, I discovered that it is best to complete the axle pump plumbing before the boiler goes on to have good accessibility to the pipes to add the flexible tubing. You may also want to leave the cab deck loose to make it easier to fit the boiler -- which is super heavy and a tight fit inside the wings of the decking.

Anybody following this thread may remember that I was considering adding a bracket to keep the reverser rods on the chassis centerline. But I found a better solution. I removed the shouldered screw that holds the two halves of the reverser linkage together. Next I drilled out a 2.6mm washer so it would fit on the shouldered screw. Then, with the washer on the screw, I re-installed the screw to re-connect the pieces of the linkage. This locks the two halves of the linkage and takes most of the slop out of the reverser system. While this seems counterintuitive since the front engine pivots, allowing the linkage to pivot creates all kinds of excess vertical and horizontal slop. And since the front half of the reverser linkage is a stainless round rod that can flex, the revised system can tolerate the pivoting action of the front engine while keeping both valve systems in synch.

Ross Schlabach


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 13 Jan 2013 05:18 PM 
I finally got to install the boiler on the chassis today -- a major accomplishment. On this illustration page, I discovered that it is best to complete the axle pump plumbing before the boiler goes on to have good accessibility to the pipes to add the flexible tubing. You may also want to leave the cab deck loose to make it easier to fit the boiler -- which is super heavy and a tight fit inside the wings of the decking. Anybody following this thread may remember that I was considering adding a bracket to keep the reverser rods on the chassis centerline. But I found a better solution. I removed the shouldered screw that holds the two halves of the reverser linkage together. Next I drilled out a 2.6mm washer so it would fit on the shouldered screw. Then, with the washer on the screw, I re-installed the screw to re-connect the pieces of the linkage. This locks the two halves of the linkage and takes most of the slop out of the reverser system. While this seems counterintuitive since the front engine pivots, allowing the linkage to pivot creates all kinds of excess vertical and horizontal slop. And since the front half of the reverser linkage is a stainless round rod that can flex, the revised system can tolerate the pivoting action of the front engine while keeping both valve systems in synch. Ross Schlabach Ross
"Anybody following this thread may remember that I was considering adding a bracket to keep the reverser rods on the chassis centerline. But I found a better solution. I removed the shouldered screw that holds the two halves of the reverser linkage together. Next I drilled out a 2.6mm washer so it would fit on the shouldered screw. Then, with the washer on the screw, I re-installed the screw to re-connect the pieces of the linkage. This locks the two halves of the linkage and takes most of the slop out of the reverser system. While this seems counterintuitive since the front engine pivots, allowing the linkage to pivot creates all kinds of excess vertical and horizontal slop. And since the front half of the reverser linkage is a stainless round rod that can flex, the revised system can tolerate the pivoting action of the front engine while keeping both valve systems in synch."

Thanks for the update as it is timely in regards to our present progress...


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

On to step 7...half way done with this portion having finished one cylinder/piston valve/running gear set per engine. The step was well designed with the illustrations in the build manual just need a bit of filing on one piece of the rear engine support bracket. As with the front engine, this portion of step 7 was focused on an engine: rear. Once again the most trying aspect was the expansion link and the fitting/locking in the "little"square block between the link in combination with the curvature (see the cloud enlargement). Finally, was able to borrow my wife's camera and after a few shots seem to be able to post images that are much better than the video still shots. 

Challenger Build Photo Log 











Here is the approach I was able to used to complete the step for the linkage










An overview of the parts necessary for this step in building the rear engine:










A comparison shot of the two engines front and rear. BTW- yes, I know that the engines are NOT in proper order. Just wanted to show the differences. So, can you see the one particular difference between the two engines (Ross cannot answer)?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Yes, yes, I know the answer. 
The way that my screen is positioned, one is facing North, and one is facing South. 
Of course your screen could be in an East West orientation too, or a Northwest Southeast .........etc. etc.. 
How about the distance between the cylinder and the leading wheel? 
I have always wondered about the stresses and strains on US locos where they had such long piston and valve rods. 
I guess that's why they had such a relative large diameter. 
Another month and it will be steaming for sure. 
Keep up the good work reporting the build, fun to watch. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The seventh step in the kit build is now completed. Both engines move smoothly. In the photo log there is a short video showing the motion (the noise is the reversing rod that I forgot to wire up off the mat...done so in the dual portion of clip). The final completion took about one hour to put the piston valve and running gear set on each engine. Step 8 will be a treat with some "gingerbread" (or in more modern terms bling) with some details before having to do the drain cock system (could be some hair pulling...if I had some).


Challenger Build Photo log 










David, thanks for the observation of a major difference between the two engines. BTW- you do not have to put your hand up to participate.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Step 8 Details- cylinder covers and steam pipes
During the process and planning to do a kit build there are aspects one must observe in order to get it right: parts list, instruction manual, correction sheets and diagrams. Combined that with the proper tools and all the necessary parts and it should be relatively straight forward: not so...step backwards. Yet, there was a benefit to having to do this because I found the swivel joint on the piston rod had rotated the pin to the inside. If it had been left as such with the boiler in place it might be quite difficult to access if the running gear needed to be attended to. You can see the proper position, just image the situation on the wrong side of the combination lever related to a needed repair.

Aster Challenger Kit Build Photo Log 










In step 8 of the build it is not complex and the parts are few in comparison to other sections. Yet, an hour and one-half was spent on getting the rear cylinder cover plate proper fitted. Having read the correction sheet with the updated procedure I set about to accomplish this small aspect of the section. The recommendation was to undo the combination lever on move the piston valve forward so that the cover plate could fit over the piston valve housing:








So, I did just that (along with rotation on the swivel u-joint on the piston rod- the only one that rotated). Yet, when trying to get the screw tighten down it is at a bit of angle and just did not fill correct despite several attempts. Solution to take the piston valve housing off the cylinder chest and put the plate on (much easier and even much more so if I had looked ahead a step in anticipation).









As shown in this final photo the front engine done and the rear engine yet to have covers in place.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The continuation of Step8 placement of covers onto the rear cylinder/pistons. Found that the rear cover plate on the rear engine was a bit more accessible but still required starting the holding crosshead screw with a common screw driver then finished with cross point screwdrive. Each engine now has a little show along with the go:

Aster Challenger Kit build photo log 











Nice to see the some attractive parts on the engines. Get to see one's self in the cylinder covers.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Reading this brings back fond memories of building my Aster Mikado.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The Aster Challenger is now one quarter of the way to the main line. So, below is a video of the steps 1-7 procedures and I will add captions soon

Progress on Step 8 will resume once timing is completed










Challenger Build Photo Log

Also, some information below of future aspects of the build thanks to Ross



Yes, those plates, part numbers 8-1 and 8-2 should actually be installed as part of Section 7. 

In addition, on Section 8, there are several parts that need to be set aside until the engines are timed and tested. These are part numbers 8-3, 8-5, 8-16 and 8-20. You can't do the needed measuring of the valve movement with these in place. Add these after the chassis air test is completed. 


Several issues and suggestions for Section 9: 


1) There is a piece of tubing to be fitted over part number 9-3. The drawing says to make it 5mm long but the text says 3mm. Make it 5mm to keep part number 9-4 at the bottom of that deep bend in part number 9-3. 


2) for the axle pump, the written directions have you assemble the ram and the cam follower, parts 9-10 and 9-12, before you install them into the pump body. It won't fit, so install the ram (9-10) into the pump body and then attach the cam follower, 9-12. Slide the cam to one side of the axle so that you can slip the cam follower onto the axle. Tip the cam follower and the ram 45 degrees to the axle centerline, and then you will be able to install the set screw. 


3) in Section 9-1, you set the positions of the two levers that operate the drain cocks. The drawing shows that the levers should be able to move further forward than they do backward. But there are components that interfere with forward movement, so make the levers move further back than they do forward. I'm going to also pass on a hint from Hans. The two of us put a thin slice of silicone tubing between the two levers, parts 9-18 and 9-19 to eliminate slop. 


Something for Section 10. Remember this is one builder's recommendation. You may come up with a better idea: 


When the two REVERSER LINKAGE RODS are connected with screw 10-18, there is too much free movement: both up and down and left and right. My solution was to take a 2.6mm washer and drill it out so it would just fit on the shoulder of the screw, 10-18. Then, when the screw is tightened, the entire linkage is locked into place and should be straight. This yields no lost motion in any direction. And while the front engine does pivot, there is enough free play and flex in the front rod to allow for the full range of chassis movement. 


In Section 11, I would suggest that you assemble the pilot as shown but set the assembly aside. If you install the pilot now, you will not be able to attach the M2-2.5 retaining screw that holds part 16-23 in place. The pilot can be attached after Section 16. 


Section 16 is the BIGGIE on this locomotive and both Hans and I have spent hours getting this right. The rear steam pressure pipes from Section 8.1 are a big part of the challenge. These are part numbers 8-18 and 8-19. Our experience so far has been that these pipes MAY be too long. They were on our two kits, but we can't vouch for others. In Section 16 these two parts are connected to their respective steam supply T pipes, numbers 16-19 and 16-20. First off, check those two T pipes to make sure that they are bent properly to fit in their respective covers, parts 18-7 and 18-8. If they don't fit, don't proceed until you have the T pipes correctly shaped. Mine fit fine but Hans' did not. 


Once those parts fit correctly, test assemble them to the bottom of the smokebox part 16-1 and connect them to the rear steam pressure pipes 8-18 and 8-19. When assembled, these pipes are supposed to sit level but generally don't because they are slightly too long. Check for position with the flange nut tightened up. The tightening process will pull the pipes together slightly. If you still can't get the pipes to sit level, then you can remove some metal to shorten the 8-18 and 8-19 pipes slightly. Here's where it gets tricky. First, at the joint between the T pipe nut and the rear engine steam pipe flange nut, measure the gap. This distance is the maximum amount that you could take off the rear pipe to bring the pipes level. You shouldn't need to remove this much. Disconnect the rear steam pipes which requires disconnecting their respective banjo bolts from the cylinder. It's a tight fit with the boiler in place, but it can be done and replacement is even more challenging. The reason I recommend that you remove these pipes is that you are going to do some filing and you want to be able to clean out the pipes before re-installing them. Each pipe has a bubble flare at the front end. Test fit each bubble flare into the part no. 16-19 and 16-20 pipes and insure that the bubble flare does not touch the T pipe. Measure that gap. If this gap is smaller than the first gap you measured earlier, then this is the maximum you can shorten the pipe. In my case, I removed less than 1mm from each rear steam pipe while the gap between the bubble flare and the lip of the T pipe was almost 2mm. I suggest that you work in slow increments. Clean and re-anneal the end of the pipe where you did your filing and blow out the pipe before re-installing it. And don't forget the packing compound on rear ends of the rear steam pressure pipes when you re-install the banjo bolts. Repeat the process for each side of the locomotive. 


The next fitting challenge is the steam manifold, part no. 16-21. Test fit this pipe in place. Make sure that the two pipes extending out to the T pipes are not under any side or end load. You may need to anneal these pipes and reshape them slightly to align properly with the T pipes. As you did with the rear steam pressure pipes, you can shortly the ends of the bubble flares to bring everything into correct alignment. 


I don't have a good way to provide easy illustrations for these challenging steps, so if you have questions, ASK before you file. You can normally contact me during the day at home by phone or e-mail. but phone is better. Work in small increments and remember that when you tighten up the flare fittings, they pull the pipe ends in slightly so take that into account as you work. I have tried to catch all my Oops, but feel free to let me know about any errors that have crept into this epistle. 


I have finished the tender out of order and I'm on Section 18, so I don't know what other surprises await. 


Good luck, 


Ross Schlabach


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

I had the devils own job getting the die block to slide freely. Turns out that the curved guide had some almost invisible ridging in the center which was preventing the block moving freely.

Robert


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Robert, when you say die blocks, I'm assuming that you mean the valve spindles. In an earlier post, I mentioned that these arrive from the factory almost "stuck" inside the valve blocks and that you need to attach the valve push rod to the spindle, oil the bore well, and "hone" these in by working them back and forth in the bore until operation is smooth. This seems difficult, but once you get it moving it will hone in quickly -- no sandpaper or filing needed or wanted! 

Good luck, 

Ross Schlabach


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Two more quick suggestions for the building log. 

On Illustration 16, you assemble the smokebox. I discovered that the two pieces of the smokebox did not initially fit well. So before starting to screw the top portion down, do a quick test fit to make sure that the two parts will mate properly. In my case they didn't come together neatly at the front left corner, so I slid the top part off and, using a bit of force, twisted the front end of the bottom piece of the smokebox to bring that front corner up. The next test fit showed this had worked, and I installed the smokebox top first with M2-4 screws all along the mating surface on each side and then the small screws that hold the smokebox to the boiler ring. 

Next, a cosmetic enhancement for Illustration 17. On this page, the high pressure steam line swivel connections are made up and attached to the boiler/chassis assembly. There is a piece of thick foam tubing that is cut to length and slit open to cover the high pressure pipes running to the rear engine. There is probably enough material left over that could be used to similarly cover the steam exhaust pipes coming from the rear engine, but this thick tubing won't fit in the space available or make the tight bends in these pipes. So I made a quick trip to the auto supply store and bought a piece of windshield washer hose with an outside diameter of just over 8mm and inside diameter of about 4mm to use instead. This stuff does not have any reinforcing and so is just the right size to fit over the exhaust steam pipes and still clear the boiler casing and the covering on the high pressure pipes. Because you won't be able to see much of these pipes with the running boards, piping and other details in place, I didn't cover the entire length -- just the portions that would show when all was done. Thanks to Hans for this tip. 

Ross Schlabach


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By zephyra on 21 Jan 2013 10:20 AM 
I had the devils own job getting the die block to slide freely. Turns out that the curved guide had some almost invisible ridging in the center which was preventing the block moving freely.

Robert

Robert

Got the file the surfaces to get rid of any ridges in the curved guide as shown in the "cloud" pop out of the die block and expansion link.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ross
Appreciate the update
cb


Posted By RP3 on 31 Jan 2013 06:00 AM 
Two more quick suggestions for the building log. 

On Illustration 16, you assemble the smokebox. I discovered that the two pieces of the smokebox did not initially fit well. So before starting to screw the top portion down, do a quick test fit to make sure that the two parts will mate properly. In my case they didn't come together neatly at the front left corner, so I slid the top part off and, using a bit of force, twisted the front end of the bottom piece of the smokebox to bring that front corner up. The next test fit showed this had worked, and I installed the smokebox top first with M2-4 screws all along the mating surface on each side and then the small screws that hold the smokebox to the boiler ring. 

Next, a cosmetic enhancement for Illustration 17. On this page, the high pressure steam line swivel connections are made up and attached to the boiler/chassis assembly. There is a piece of thick foam tubing that is cut to length and slit open to cover the high pressure pipes running to the rear engine. There is probably enough material left over that could be used to similarly cover the steam exhaust pipes coming from the rear engine, but this thick tubing won't fit in the space available or make the tight bends in these pipes. So I made a quick trip to the auto supply store and bought a piece of windshield washer hose with an outside diameter of just over 8mm and inside diameter of about 4mm to use instead. This stuff does not have any reinforcing and so is just the right size to fit over the exhaust steam pipes and still clear the boiler casing and the covering on the high pressure pipes. Because you won't be able to see much of these pipes with the running boards, piping and other details in place, I didn't cover the entire length -- just the portions that would show when all was done. Thanks to Hans for this tip. 

Ross Schlabach


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

On my last post, I got the Illustration numbers wrong. The smokebox assembly is in Illustration 17 and the Steam pipe installation is in Section 18. Mea culpa. 

Ross Schlabach


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

*Thanks again, I am really enjoying this thread and the link to all of the pictures.*


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Link for related work:


Challenger Step 8 Modification Pending


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Challenger Kit build Drain cocks & axles pumps

Step 9 link 

Front engine: double axle pump









Rear engine with drain cock levers


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

are the axle pumps offset 90dec or 180dec? In the pic it looks like 90dec? 

Manfred


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Manfred,

The pumps are 180 degrees opposed, that is to say when one is pushing water to the boiler, the other is pulling water from the tender. In the picture the eccentrics hadn't been set in their final positions yet.


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## steamupdad (Aug 19, 2008)

I think you would want to set it up as a push pull system so water is constantly flowing. the eccentrics are set exactly the same. that would be the logical set up. 

looks like you beat me to it, Charles..


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By steamupdad on 05 Feb 2013 08:45 PM 
I think you would want to set it up as a push pull system so water is constantly flowing. the eccentrics are set exactly the same. that would be the logical set up. looks like you beat me to it, Charles.. 
Whatever the factory setup mmy RTR ,works fine and had no problems whatsoever with the pump keeping up with the needs of the boiler.

As I have said before , you guys who build something as complex as the Challenger are to be commended. I hope to run the K-4 tommorow and Bill Courtwright has told me that he has video of me when I ran her for the first time. Hope to get it on MLS when I get to do the K-4.
Raining bucketsfull here right now. Hope it lets up for tommorow.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Due to obligations both at work and in the shop we are on hold for the timing and testing of the two engines. In hope to keep the kit build moving along we started Step 25: Tender

The base requirements for the tender structure were: frame, springs, bearing, wheel, but the time in getting the fit and finish was critical. Without the filing on separate frame piece there would a problem tiring to fit each component that forms the wheel arch where to bearing, spring and wheel rides could not be completed.

The ends of each section took quite a bit of filing to allow them to align and join together:










Align in getting the sections to lay flat, fit and joint together was a task:











Challenger Kit Build Step 25 Tender


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Update of build:


Snap Shot overview 

UP Challenger Photo log


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The UP tender work continues with detail parts and interior functional pieces (water pump and fuel pump):


Challenger Build photo log


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Fuel Pump?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan

Cars on the mind, as I was reading ,"The Spirit of Competition" by Dr. Simeone (world class collection of race car history located in) as I was doing the update(waiting photos to upload)..."chicken feed" sump.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Fuel injected, super charged steam locos could be the new thing.... Joking aside, love all of the photos. I'm guessing you have a photographer or have you been hiding a third arm? Any chance this work of art will be at ECLSTS?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy

Not sure, possible....but more likely at the Cabin Fever event in York April 12-13. Our first obligation is to the shop work and second to getting the Challenger done correctly. With a month's time and about average of 1.5 hours a day if all things go well could happen( we are motivated as such)! As to photo work, some times by one's self thus "still shots" and other times Ryan and I are on the project at the same time thus some "live action." Given the visual logging of the build that also takes time away from the actual build process. Yet, time well spent to record the majority of aspects that are required to build a kit. For example, the tender is not difficult but there has been a need to tap holes, open holes to large circumference (e.g. on the swing lead truck the screw alignment holes needed to be larger to match up with the thread frame holes). Overall, the kit has not had any unexpected obstacles to the layout via schematics, written directions or errata sheets. Compared to the K4 and Mikado kits also being built at the same time, the Challenger has had better build communications in the manuals just more to do. Thanks for Ross and Hans the few updates have been timely and resolving potential problems. You would appreciate that if you had the opportunity to read the translation of Japanese to English in the earlier manuals (they give you a chuckle) of the 80's with no updates thus there are times (if one does not think two steps ahead)build a step only to rebuild to get the next step done.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 14 Feb 2013 05:11 AM 
Randy

snip....

You would appreciate that if you had the opportunity to read the translation of Japanese to English in the earlier manuals (they give you a chuckle) of the 80's with no updates thus there are times (if one does not think two steps ahead)build a step only to rebuild to get the next step done.


Yes, John and I are finishing the Hudson (circa 1984). One of the phrases that gave us quite a laugh (and has entered our building vocabulary) is "tax your ingenuity", which is actually in the instructions. They meant to say some things are left up to you to figure out how to do them! We also invoked the name of Jobu a time or two. 
Test ran the Hudson Sunday afternoon. It's strong and can be very fast, but runs smoothly at a low throttle. One tiny leak that will need addressing, but might be a major undertaking to repair. Water seems to be leaking by the axle pump ram!







Someone please tell me I don't have to pull the boiler to repack the axle pump ram!


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

You shouldn't have to pull the boiler, I think you can get at everything you need to from underneath, there should be enough room to maneuver around, although you may need to pull the rear driver in order to get the pump body back enough to come out. 

At least it is not as bad as the K4 or Stirling single (that banjo on the bottom of the boiler is a real bugger!) when it comes to pulling the boiler from the frame, since the Hudson has a lot less fiddly details to mess with.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Can anyone explain where the dummy air pipes in section 11 (part 11.18) actually fit - the diagram isn't exactly clear! 

Robert


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The tender is now completed and a detailed post of that procedure is forth coming


Challenger Tender


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 23 Feb 2013 06:58 PM 
The tender is now completed and a detailed post of that procedure is forth coming


Challenger Tender 

Link to the Tender build video:


MLS Tender build log


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Boiler fitting completed and most of the back head piping and fittings

Boiler fitting


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