# Accucraft K28



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

I make no apologies about talking about the K28 again, but the thing is every time I steam it I am so pleased with the way that it performs.
The engine originally belonged to Rod Blakeman (who no doubts regrets selling it).
Rod fitted Radio control,
RC is not something I would go out of my way for, though I have to admit it does have it's advantages.
Never touching the engine when pulling away is rather nice for a start.

The thing is with the K28, at least with mine is that it needs a heat adjustment after it's first two laps. 
What the hells that I hear you say. 
Well it's not just turning up the gas. Rather the oposite. Turn the gas off in fact and then re-light. 

NOW you can be assured that you have both burners going and boy is that engine vibrant. If you think your engine is 'lack lustre' then you know what to do, and for goodness sake let it blow it it wants to (you won't be down on water after two laps no matter how big your railway is) I know, you soon will be if it keeps blowing!!

See video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgYKFviW8cA

The question I would like to ask is, how powerful are the K28s when they are on song?

I recently lost out with my Aster Bigboy when it slipped to a holt with around 80 reefers on to the new AD60 Garratt, The Garratt seemed to hold it's feet better.
This contest was arranged MR. Aster who very generously donated two bottles of 'bubbly' to the AD60 owner and the runner up, me.
Could I seriously throw the K28 into the fray with a chance of regaining my credibility.

The downside on this is that I cant see me getting a Christmas card from Andrew if an Accucraft engine steels the crown, Could we still be freinds?
Anyway, can I view yor K28s or similar pulling 80 reefers please?







l


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

The K-28 is a great performing engine. Mine has always made steam easily and runs with plenty of power. We had a few of them running at Dr. Rivets (or is it Rivit? ;-)) spring meet. They all performed well. As far as how many cars one could pull varies greatly with whether they have ball bearings, and how many can be coupled together before a coupler snaps.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

[No message]


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## AzRob (Sep 14, 2009)

Unrelated, but David, when I try and go to your website, I get a generic page about troubled teens.


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## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

David, Great show of Ks performing....good video
I like the little Accucraft 4-4-0, very cute.
Have you ever thought of building in wings on the Regner. It would be nice to see it fly by (in the UK)


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## ShayCrazy (Dec 27, 2007)

Wow that is some serious pulling power! 

Thanks for the vid.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By main131 on 01 Nov 2009 02:45 PM The question I would like to ask is, how powerful are the K28s when they are on song?

I recently lost out with my Aster Bigboy when it slipped to a holt with around 80 reefers on to the new AD60 Garratt, The Garratt seemed to hold it's feet better.
This contest was arranged MR. Aster who very generously donated two bottles of 'bubbly' to the AD60 owner and the runner up, me.
_*Could I seriously throw the K28 into the fray with a chance of regaining my credibility.*_

The downside on this is that I cant see me getting a Christmas card from Andrew if an Accucraft engine steels the crown, Could we still be freinds?
Anyway, can I view yor K28s or similar pulling 80 reefers please?







l

An equal head-to-head would be 2 K-28's vs a Big Boy or AD60 - for the same number of drivers on rail.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

I think the K-28 weighs almost as much as one Big boy, but I have seen one Big boy (or Berkshire) pulling more then the 3 K's in the video... Which by the way looked really good, nice video.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

One thing to also keep in mind is the PFE Reefer weighs 2.5lbs vs the DRG Box at 4lbs and Stock car at 3.5lbs 

80 PFE Reefers weigh 200 lbs 

50 DRG Boxcars weigh 200 lbs


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

My Big Boy is 42 pounds or 5.25 pounds per axel. 
My Daylight is 27.5 pounds or 6.875 pounds per axel. 

Before anyone starts yelling I know it's not exactly that, I just divided the 42 by 8. I also know the size of the drivers makes a difference. This is more for reference than anything. 

I think that weight of the cars is not as important as the number of axels being pulled. An 80 reefer train is the same weight but has 120 more axels.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 04 Nov 2009 09:26 AM
My Big Boy is 42 pounds or 5.25 pounds per axel.
My Daylight is 27.5 pounds or 6.875 pounds per axel.

Before anyone starts yelling I know it's not exactly that, I just divided the 42 by 8. I also know the size of the drivers makes a difference. This is more for reference than anything.

I think that weight of the cars is not as important as the number of axels being pulled. An 80 reefer train is the same weight but has 120 more axels.


Dan:
Type of rolling stock bearings is a factor as well: none, sleeve or balling bearings. Rolling resistance, yes?

Another factor to consider is scale weight of the locomotive and rolling stock - individually, then as a total consist calculation for comparison. Once upon a time there was a lengthy discussion on model locomotive tractive effort(TE); the question of scale weight versus prototypical weight and tractive effort arose. Putting aside that discussion (please!), as it turned out a 1:1 K-27 weight scaled in 1:20.3 scale to ~24 lbs. As it happens this is the same weight as an Accucraft K-27 electric (TE of course does not apply since it's ultimately just about the electric motor), but TE is quite a different matter and very relevant with live steam models, particularly if there is to be a competition. 

An Accucraft live steam K-27 weights ~35 lbs., a K-28 ~36.5 lbs., (sans water and oil.), both considerably over their scale weight. How to account for the over weight condition would make the competition very problematic, unless the BB is similarly over its scale weight. How you would normalize between scales could be equally problematic, and possibly more frustrating. After solving the locomotive problem(s) the scale weight issue would then move on to addressing the rolling stock scale weights. 


These quick-on-the-draw "mine's bigger, better, faster" are not as simple as they seem after the emotions settle down. Of course if the face-off is for pink slips, well then... 

Have fun.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris I agree with you. The bottom line is you cannot compare our models to full size engines. There are too many variables, some you mentioned plus some very real things that cannot be compensated for such as driver and track materials. The only way you can compare our engines are with each other. All comparisons should be done on the same track, the same day and time pulling the same load. 

The truth of the matter is you cannot compare a 1/32 or 1/20.3 engine to the same engine in 1/1 scale except in looks.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

I suspect a Shay would outpull them all....although admittedly not as fast... 

(Now that comment ought to get the kiddies talking....) 

;-)


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Something that main131 has not mentioned is that the curves at the ends of his track are also graded quite noticeably, and offer a real driving experience to any manually-operated live-steamer - ask anybody who has driven there. The green-boilered loco is a real demon and a credit to AccuCraft in every way. 

tac 
www.ovgrs


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 04 Nov 2009 11:20 PM 
Chris I agree with you. The bottom line is you cannot compare our models to full size engines. There are too many variables, some you mentioned plus some very real things that cannot be compensated for such as driver and track materials. The only way you can compare our engines are with each other. All comparisons should be done on the same track, the same day and time pulling the same load. 

The truth of the matter is you cannot compare a 1/32 or 1/20.3 engine to the same engine in 1/1 scale except in looks. 

au contrair mon ami.

It's not about comparing small scale live steamer to their full size counterparts. Rather using an objective criteria, valid mathematic formula, to normalize one model to another given they are different scales. Scale weight is simply a means to an end of creating a fair playing field. Full size locos are the same scale. Without normalizing the two scales the contest is meaningless. The "winner" might have bragging rights but they would be fairly hollow. For example, if the 1:20 K-27/K-28 is 20% heavier than it should be for its scale weight, the BigBoy 10% under its scale weight, unless scale weight of the 1:32 BigBoy is brought up to 20% over weight there would not be relative equal weight on drivers between the two locos. Look at it from another, thought equivalent, perspective. If one consist has ball bearing wheels and the other no bearings no one would take that as an equal contest, would they? One or the other axles would have to changed, and then their scale weight factored in as well.










The fuel would also need to be the same, coal versus coal, etc. 


Of course if you leave all this out and the disparity between locos remains then it's just Aster versus Accucraft, should Accucraft wins then Aster owners will cry foul saying it wasn't a fair contest. Which, come to think of it, in and of itself wouldn't be an altogether bad outcome. Aster looses a bragging rights contest, hmmmmm...









Of course if all things thus being equal the BigBoy should obviously out pull the A-27/K-28. Then when the K-27/K-28 wins, what a _*coup d'état*_!!!


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chris Scott on 05 Nov 2009 08:35 AM 
Posted By Dan Pantages on 04 Nov 2009 11:20 PM 
Chris I agree with you. The bottom line is you cannot compare our models to full size engines. There are too many variables, some you mentioned plus some very real things that cannot be compensated for such as driver and track materials. The only way you can compare our engines are with each other. All comparisons should be done on the same track, the same day and time pulling the same load. 

The truth of the matter is you cannot compare a 1/32 or 1/20.3 engine to the same engine in 1/1 scale except in looks. 

au contrair mon ami.

It's not about comparing small scale live steamer to their full size counterparts. Rather using an objective criteria, valid mathematics formula, to normalize one model to another given they are different scales. Scale weight is simply a means to an end of creating a fair playing field. Full size locos are the same scale. Without normalizing the two scales the contest is meaningless. The "winner" might have bragging rights but they would be fairly hollow. For example, if the 1:20 K-27/K-28 is 20% heavier than it should be for its scale weight, the BigBoy 10% under its scale weight, unless scale weight of the 1:32 BigBoy is brought up to 20% over weight there would not be relative equal weight on drivers between the two locos. Look at it from another, thought equivalent, perspective. If one consist has ball bearing wheels and the other no bearings no one would take that as an equal contest, would they? One or the other axles would have to changed, and then their scale weight factored in as well.










The fuel would also need to be the same, coal versus coal, etc. 


Of course if you leave all this out and the disparity between locos remains then it's just Aster versus Accucraft, should Accucraft wins then Aster owners will cry foul saying it wasn't a fair contest. Which, come to think of it, in and of itself wouldn't be an altogether bad outcome. Aster looses a bragging rights contest, hmmmmm...









Of course if all things thus being equal the BigBoy should obviously out pull the A-27/K-28. Then when the K-27/K-28 wins, what a _*coup d'état*_!!!











This is giving me a headache. Oh well, never mind.


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