# Aristo Barber truck help



## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Hi I am currently switching over to ball bearings and metal wheels on all my ECLSTS PRR 100 ton coal cars and have noticed that the hubs do not fit tightly on the new metal wheels.

I am using the D's but the fit is sloppy and I'm sure they will fall off.

Do you guys have any tips to secure them better? 

Personally I would rather have the other style freight trucks, are they interchangeable? If so I have 8 new sets I am willing to trade for 8 new ones of the other style.

Thanks, Ron


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

You could try pinging (?) the ends of the axles. Stand on end on an anvil or similiar and tap the ends with a hammer. Just enough to cause a little flare.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron,
The information to follow may be helpful if you are experiencing loose fitting bearing caps on Aristo axles:

I tried and did use the AML wheels (with axle tips about 0.010 inch less than the Aristo's) in the Barber truck because they are finished in black and had the widest back to back wheel spacing (compared to Aristo's typical under gauged wheels) while being in spec. using a gauge to check it. (This is beneficial when using Kadee 906 type body mount couplers since the truck is allowed to pivot just a bit more before the wheel hits the side of the box.)



















I used a drop of glue placed within the hole of the loose fitting Aristo bearing caps to secure them.
(Note: When installing wheels, the trucks require disassembly / reassemble - so before I put the caps on, I first lubricated the axles by placing a small amount of Molly Paste on the axle near the wheel hubs and installed the wheels into the trucks so as not to get any lube on the ends of the tips.)

Using a small round stick with a drop of glue on its end, the stick is placed within the bearing cap hole and then swiveled around to distribute the glue. (I used Titebond III waterproof glue typically meant for wood, but it does take awhile to setup and harden.)










Any excess glue that may get on the end of the cap should be wiped off before placing it on the tip of AML axle










It is intended that the caps rotate with the axles as they turn, so the technique here is to put the caps over the axle tips while twirling and aligning them so that they are close to but not touching the brass bearing inserts of the side frames. Turning the axles at the same time helps to check both alignment (for way undersize axles) and freedom of movement. You my have to recheck and "tweak" them because I found they may move on their own as the glue dries! A glue other than Titebond be work differently.

Shown below is the installed Aristo Barber truck with AML wheels on the USAT SP 50 foot Hydra-Cushion boxcar.










-Ted


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

TEd! Awesome! Thanks for sharing! I've got a BUNCH of these trucks I swapped metal wheeled ones out for and was reluctant to get rid of them preffering to replace the plastic wheels with metal for other cars. Sourcing acceptable wheels however was a problem. You just solved that. Thanks for sharing your solution. 

Chas


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Chas, 

Were you not able to get Aristo ART-29111D version wheels? 

-Ted


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted, when I've got money to buy the wheels no one seems to have them. I'd also prefer to buy them in bulk but again They are not available that way. May try again in March. I purchased several of the roller bearing truck sets with Metal wheels already installed grabbing many at the $20 to $25 range and they seem to now be going for $40? I swapped out whole trucks on most of my 100T hoppers but still ahve other cars in storage that need metal wheels and was planning on updating some other cars with more modern trucks with the OEM trucks. Time & Money NEVER come together..... 

This past Fall I was in the Boston area visitng family and had the time to visit Charles Ro trains. I literally bought them out of metal wheels then and they had no expectations of getting any mroe until January at that point. 

Chas


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## JLienau (Jan 20, 2008)

*I do not disassemble my Barber trucks to install the 29111D metal wheels. I have yet to have a truck come apart **during the wheel swap. All my 53' Evans and 100 ton hoppers were done this way.*


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

JLienau, 

If you don't disassemble the Aristo Barber trucks, then please describe how you R&R the axles? 

On the Aristo Bettendorf trucks, I do use the twist and spread the side frames method, but I found the Barber truck's tighter bearing clearances to be too risky to spread the side frames to do this - besides which, on the Barber truck it's easy to take out the springs and reinstall them on one side frame only to R&R wheels.. 

-Ted


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

A few pictures of how easy it is to R&R the Aristo Barber truck side frame for changing wheel sets: 
(So far I have done about 85 cars this way.) 





























-Ted


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I do the same and do not dismantle the truck to install the metal wheels. The end of the axle is also slightly knurled to retain the cap. Later RJD


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

RJ, 

Please describe how you R&R the wheels in the Barber truck if you don't dismantle it. 
(Do you use the twist and spread method like done on the Aristo Bettendorf trucks? I tried this, don' like it with such little "meat" around the brass bushings - choosing not to stress the truck this way when it is so easy to take one side frame off.) 

As to the knurled axle tips, this varies as to production run. The early first run had no knurls, a later run had very prominent knurls, while a more recent run had less prominent knurls - so you could withdraw the axle without it being stuck in the brass bushing. 

Thank you, 
-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks for the info Ted, I'll give that a try.

I also read over your piece on adding Kadee's to the 100 ton cars and have a question for you. 

I don't have the time or stuff to cut and bend the Aluminum strips.
I used weld-on 16 to cement the mounting surface to the ends of the cars instead of the Aluminum strips.
Did you try that method in any fashion? I find it to be very strong as it fuses the plastic ends together. 
In my testing I was unable to pull the joined ends apart
(I was afraid to pull any harder because I could see the frame end starting to buckle)

I know that doing it this way won't allow you to take it apart anymore, but I don't plan on doing that anyway.

I also just pull the trucks apart and slide the plastic wheel out. I then installed the Aristo bearings, using the 15/64 bit to enlarge the whole first,
and then slipped in the new metal Wheels. No problems at all

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thank you Ron,

As to the 100 ton hopper, I have not tried glue "welding" the end of the car. It looks like your method is more than strong enough to do an excellent job. Does doing this mess up the paint that may be seen once the car is in a train? 


As to the Aristo Barber truck, you're the only reply thus far having a meaningful response that described that you do spread the frames to remove the axles. Thank you for that contribution, and it's good info. to know that damage did not happen with the method.


Since you are using ball bearings, pulling the axles with factory knurl tips serves as a convenient extractor tool for pulling the brass bushings. Some of the Barber side frames I've come across seem to have the brass bushings factory glued - probably with CA - so I use some care when breaking these free.


Thanks again,

-Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've had trouble with glue adhering to the paint and not the plastic. 

Ron, did you prepare the plastic in any way first? 

On the bearings, how were you able to get the drill in nice and square if both sideframes were still on? I looked at this and could not get the drill well enough aligned to feel comfortable. 

Thanks, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 07 Feb 2012 09:10 AM 
Thank you Ron,

As to the 100 ton hopper, I have not tried glue "welding" the end of the car. It looks like your method is more than strong enough to do an excellent job. Does doing this mess up the paint that may be seen once the car is in a train? 


As to the Aristo Barber truck, you're the only reply thus far having a meaningful response that described that you do spread the frames to remove the axles. Thank you for that contribution, and it's good info. to know that damage did not happen with the method.


Since you are using ball bearings, pulling the axles with factory knurl tips serves as a convenient extractor tool for pulling the brass bushings. Some of the Barber side frames I've come across seem to have the brass bushings factory glued - probably with CA - so I use some care when breaking these free.


Thanks again,

-Ted 
I haven't had any of the bushings glued in, so I guess I'm lucky, but these are the ECLSTS cars so maybe they stopped doing it.

You have to be careful with the Weld-on as it actually melts the plastic together and where it's applied it will remove the paint.

My cars are black so it's not as noticeable if you get a little sloppy. Here are a couple of pics.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07 Feb 2012 04:04 PM 
I've had trouble with glue adhering to the paint and not the plastic. 

Ron, did you prepare the plastic in any way first? 

On the bearings, how were you able to get the drill in nice and square if both side frames were still on? I looked at this and could not get the drill well enough aligned to feel comfortable. 

Thanks, Greg 

What i did was apply a little weld on each mating surface let it sit for a couple of seconds and then wipe it off, this removes the paint and treats the mating surface.
I then apply another bead on the mating surface and hold them together until it sets, usually only takes a minute or two. 

For the bearings I keep the truck assembled and place it on the end of my work bench so it's easy to square up the drill
I drilled them from the outside in with a sharp 15/64 bit on slow speed. It was pretty simple and the fit is tight enough to allow you to make sure the hole is drilled straight.
The bearings then press fit into the frames and fee tighter than the bushings were, also since the flange is on the inside of the truck frame the wheel holds them in place.

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron, 

It looks like you won't see the 100 ton hopper weld once the coupler box is mounted. That's a good method of yours. 

After you install the ball bearings into the Barber truck side frames, is there difficulty inserting the axle tips into the tighter fitting bearings when using the spread frames apart method? 

Thanks Ron, 
-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, I got sidetracked with the construction of Phase 3 of the BRR







.
I was able to complete the moding of all my Aristo 100 ton club cars. I will post some pics tomorrow.

I did all 9 cars installing the bearings and the metal wheels by just spreading them apart, I didn't have any troubles with this method.

Ron


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Ted, thanks for posting this, again it's very helpful info!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Here is a pic of the finished product, as you can see once I paint the front of the shim you won't see it.

I will add some more pics when I post my 100 ton kadee install on the thread i made for all my mods.

Ron


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I hope I'm not getting too far off topic here. I'm in the process of switching everything over to steel wheels from the OEM plastic. I cheaped out with the Bachman large wheels; so far I think I'll be OK with them. The spread & twist method has worked for me to pull the plastic and insert the steel. Until I got to my A/C 100 Ton Hopper. I didn't even know I had a car with Barber spinners. So here's the problem.

On all the other trucks, the axle rests within the frame, but on the Barber the axle sits in a brass bushing and passes thru the frame so that the spinner cap can cap the end. I foolishly swapped in a pair of my new steel wheels and, it shouldn't have surprised me, the wheels are held in so tight they won't turn. Given some thought, this is only logical. I returned the plastic wheels pending a viable solution to the fit problem.

So.....do I need to purchase different steel wheels for this and any other cars I have with Barber trucks? If Aristo 29111 wheels will work in Barbers how can they replace plastic wheels in non-Barber trucks? I almost sprang for them before I decided to go with the Bachman.

JackM


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jack, your first question is the very subject of this thread and is answered in the first few posts, but I'll help: get the Aristo wheels designed for this. 

29111 needs a letter afterwards to determine the type... you want the proper model of the 29111 to fit the barbers. 

Greg


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## KD Rail (Feb 27, 2011)

Jack,

What you need for the Barber trucks is the 29111D wheels. The 29111B wheels have an extended hub which causes the binding, whereas the 'D' wheels don't. This was being discussed on the ART forum and I posted a couple of pictures there if you want to see them.

As for installing them, I use the spread and twist method. You worry that you'll break the trucks, but as long as you are careful they should be fine.. I've done dozens of them and never had a problem.

To ensure the rotating wheel journals stay in place this is what I've found works well. Once the wheels are installed, take a wire cutter or end nipper and lightly made a couple of cuts into the axel ends. It doesn't take much, and the metal is surprisingly soft. It will increase the OD just enough that the journals will stay on without having to use glue, and you can easily remove them if the need arises.

That's been my experience, hope you can find some 'D' wheels as they don't make them as often as the 'B's and they seem to sell out very fast.

Keep pullin'

Keith


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Jack,

The article below has informative info. about Aristo trucks and wheels, including the Barber truck.

"*Aristo-Craft Metal Wheel "train accessory" kits and wheel issues*"


-Ted


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Yeah, all I got from the beginning of this thread was ways to keep the Barber cap on. Mine seem to snap on firmly. 

RJD was out of the D wheels, so I just went with the Bachman, erroneously thinking that wheels is wheels. Maybe I'll be able to pick up some Ds at ECLSTS. 

Leave it to me to call those caps "spinners". I recall a number of years ago walking along York St. in Timonium, MD, when I saw some big SUV pull up to a stop sign. He had huge all-chrome wheels with these spinner things on them. While he waited for traffic to clear, the spinners kept spinning. Funniest thing I ever saw. When he finally got moving again, for some reason the spinners stopped spinning for a few seconds. Second funniest thing I ever saw. 

JackM


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