# I need simplicity in my DCC system that I will purchase



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Having read many valued opinions I realize that my track needs to be set up for constant power (DCC) with an option to go battery as required or needed. This way I have total flexibility as my train world evolves. This is what I believe at this time and have yet to review an argument that tells me otherwise. 

I really do suspect is that DCC can be upgraded (via software upgrades or otherwise) as time moves forward. Think DOS operating systems then and now VISTA. In other words... I would not be obsolete in a few years by latching into one particular platform. 

That being said, this new TE Revolution by Aristo..... ummm. How real are their claims? From what I read the system looks like a winner. I'm sure I can integrate 3'rd party locos and accessories. This is but a simple install of a DCC decoder yes? I don't need to assign 50 locos as I will have 2 at best at one time however I do need to introduce a third party loco or accessory and have my control system accept it with "glee". 

I really want flexibility and "plug'n play" as it relates to my locos... Aristo seems to offer this. I am into computers, however not into rewiring if you know what I mean. 

(Thinking of Phoenix and that "Big Boy" stuff as time moves on)

AND someone mentioned a "solar powered" unit? Working a plan... Track could handle both options and this concept would really be interesting to explore from a hobby perspective. 

Regards, 

GG


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

GG... the TE is not DCC, and is completely proprietary, and has no way to interface to a DCC sound board. It interfaces to boards that have "trigger inputs" which is pretty much limited to just the Phoenix and Dallee products.

So there is the standardization and huge functionality of DCC with dozens of suppliers of equipment that works together, or get the TE and buy only their motor controllers and limit what sound systems you use. 

DCC is continually evolving, and adding features, but there's so many now, I haven't heard many requests that could not be handled. 

Even MTH is going to put DCC compatibility into their fine line of motor and sound decoders. 

You can always run battery on your layout, although you need to be sure that the battery units are completely disconnected from the rails for safety. 

You can read my take on the new TE on my site... 


*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/dcc-battery-rc-electronics-mainmenu-225/battery-power--remote-control-mainmenu-32/aristo-rc*

It's not out in the general public yet, so some things may change. 


Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Greg, good input and thanks... 

Your comments say... maybe acquire Loco's here with a "simple Decoder" and then with time build the control system. ? 

I do not want to get tied into anyone's system. 


Regards, 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The only "standard" is DCC where you can buy from multiple manufacturers... 

The control systems, i.e. the throttles are proprietary, you do have to choose there, but you can buy an entry level control system (throttle, command station) and then change boosters (more power for more locos) and control systems later. 

All of your DCC decoders will work on any system. Thus your major investment is protected. 

Easy DCC and the MRC system come to mind. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Refreshing info: 

MRC... can you give me a thread on this topic?

AS for your comment on power consumption in California (earlier comment) and as I live in North Canada... 

Try $400 CAD per month Heating (nat gas) and electricity (base consumption and AC) balanced over thye year yes? Average... 

We, here in the north just came out of a cold snap that lasted a month @ an average of -25 C 

I was thinking of the G-scale snow blowers on a track at this temp... What fun. Stiff snow I say 

gg


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi GG
Sometimes the words "EASY" or "SIMPLE" are sales speak for "We never got around to finishing our system . Only half the features that our competitors have are now working, but, we got it to the point where it will sort of run the trains and so here it is. Maybe by the time you realize you need a real system, we will have gotten everything working and you can throw this one away buy an entire new one from us."


A good DCC system is supported with lots of add on devices so the system grows. You only buy the functionality you need. It is a good idea to consider the system that very large MRR clubs use successfully. You can be sure you will never outgrow your system. Then buy just the components you need. For example, one 8 amp command station/booster from Digitrax and a Utility throttle will get you going. YOU CAN"T GET MUCH SIMPLER THAN THAT. That system can be expanded to handle 80 or more operators at one time. It can do just about anything that can be done on DCC.
Since you want maximum versatility, be sure that the decoders you buy will automatically run on analog DC. That way your locos will run on analog layouts.

Make sure the DCC system you buy will support running a loco without a decoder (aka "zero pulse stretching" or "analog loco as loco zero"). That way you can run visitors non DCC locos.
(Not all decoders or systems support analog conversion)


If you do the above, then your layout will support locos with DCC, DC, Battery/RC or (with an additional component) live steam.


If you want to run your locos on other layouts, then there are two options: 

 If the layout is DCC or DC, you can run any of your DCC locos on those layouts.
If the layout will not accept a track power connection to the rails then you can still run any of your DCC locos, but there are two requirements.
The locos must have a plug on the back of the loco to accept a DCC track signal, and a switch to disconnect the rails from the decoder.
You need to build a DCC battery car. It is really simple. You need two 12 volt motorcycle batteries, a command station and a wireless throttle receiver. Build a harness with plugs on it so you can take your layout command station and drop it into a boxcar with the batteries. You need a plug to mate with the locos connected to the DCC command stations track outputs. I fit my Digitrax command station in an LGB boxcar, but it took a little modification of the floor to get it to fit. A 1:20 scale Bachmann boxcar is a much easier fit. If the railroad you are visiting does not run live steam, and their track conducts and is not shorted, you can even make an jumper with alligator clips to go from the boxcar to the track and then you will be able to run several locos at once on the layout.

 I hope this helps

B0B


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yes, everything helps here and thanks to both for some quality input. 

This is indeed a hobby that challenges the brain. Not to mention strategy. 

I will start with my basic yard (abeit limited) plan and build a robust and wide curve railroad. I will then prove same with my basic starter and proven LGB xmas train... 

Then... "watch out"...









I really appreciate your input. You have saved me many dollars here. 

gg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm a novice at this, a total novice. I'm currently running DCC using Airwire and constant track power. The DCC information is sent over the air, rather than the track. This is a slightly odd way to do it, although it works quite well. Her'es how I got there.


I started out using Aristo's 75 hz onboard system, which is extremely simple. Really it just does speed and direction, and if you do a lot of extra fussing you can get it to trigger sounds. Then Aristo announced they were discontinuing the system, leaving me with considreable invested in a proprietary system that's now dead. Annoying. But it's pretty robust and again, it's simple. 2nd graders can run it with no trouble.


Aristo's new system promises to do marvelous things, but so did the 75 mhz system, and it didn't do what what prmised. It worked fine, but never matched the hype. The new system may be really great--Aristo makes some really great stuff. It may do everything they say, and simply. But I'd be cautious, for two reasons.

I would wait to see the system in operation for six months before thinking about buying. There will be a lot of inital glowing reviews, and then the real story will start to emerge. Again, it may be really great, I'm not saying it's no good. But th track record with the 75 mhz system was lots of hype, lots of promises, a different reality.


Do you want a proprietary system? One supplier., one set of components. I sank considerable dough into the 75 mhz system. Now it's dead. If the same thing happens with the new systems...

One advatage of DCC is interchangeability, as mentioned. So you're protected from the failure of a product line.



But Arsto is great at making it simple. They really work on that. They don't always execute exactly right, but they really work on making it easy, and by all accunts the new system is really easy. 

DCC is not--not at all. As mentuoned, it's like DOS. I want to put two locos in a consist. I've wanted to do it for like a month now. I still have not had time to sit down with the two manuals I'll need and figure out how to do it. That's ridiculous! It should not be that complicated or coumbersome. I have a loco that starts and stops to abruptly. I want to use DCC to change that. Yikes! It should be as easy as turnign a knob or dragging a slider on a screen, but instead it takes a very complicated sequence of key commands. 



Aristo claims to have found a way to get a lot of the functions of DCC without the fuss. If they have, they will sell a lot of units. But I'd stil be hesitant, fr the reasons listed above


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 01/12/2009 7:36 AM

... snip ...
(SIMPLE)
DCC is not--not at all. As mentuoned, it's like DOS. I want to put two locos in a consist. I've wanted to do it for like a month now. I still have not had time to sit down with the two manuals I'll need and figure out how to do it. That's ridiculous! It should not be that complicated or coumbersome. I have a loco that starts and stops to abruptly. I want to use DCC to change that. Yikes! It should be as easy as turnign a knob or dragging a slider on a screen, but instead it takes a very complicated sequence of key commands. 



Aristo claims to have found a way to get a lot of the functions of DCC without the fuss. If they have, they will sell a lot of units. But I'd stil be hesitant, fr the reasons listed above 







Let's be clear. DCC is a serial protocol not much different from RS232 or USB .

The difficulty you are having with consisting has to do with the brand or model of the SYSTEM you chose.

Keep in mind that every DCC maker has it's own target market. Some "entry level", "beginner", or "easy" brands of DCC systems have the very easiest form of consisting of all.

It's SIMPLE. *They don't provide any ability to Consist multiple locos.* 
Other systems might provide several options for consisting. Perhaps their target is large club layouts. 
A couple examples:

On my Digitrax system, a handheld CAB, has two throttles (knobs for controlling a loco). Select one loco on the left knob, select another loco on the right knob. Drive one loco over to the other loco and couple them together. Make sure they are both set to move in the same direction. Now the complicated part, you have to push TWO buttons... Press the [MU]button. MU stands for Multi Unit. the screen will prompt you to confirm you want to add the loco on the left knob to the loco on the right knob. Press the [Y] button. Now you can run both locos with just the right throttle knob. That's it! Two button-clicks, Real hard :


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I hate to see someone struggle: (and I'm not picking on lownote, I'm picking on AirWire!!!)


Lownote says:

DCC is not--not at all. As mentuoned, it's like DOS. I want to put two locos in a consist. I've wanted to do it for like a month now. I still have not had time to sit down with the two manuals I'll need and figure out how to do it. That's ridiculous! It should not be that complicated or coumbersome. I have a loco that starts and stops to abruptly. I want to use DCC to change that. Yikes! It should be as easy as turnign a knob or dragging a slider on a screen, but instead it takes a very complicated sequence of key commands. 

It's not DCC, unfortunately, AirWire's user interface is poor in my opinion. DCC programming seems like an afterthought. The system I use supports programming and consisting so easily it's silly. 

Adjusting the start voltage is CV2 and it's as simple on my system: 



Press program (the screen verifies the loco number you want to program) (hit enter)
select "CV" (I think says hit 2 for CV) (press "2")
The screen prompts: "enter CV number"... (press "2")
The screen prompts: "enter CV value"... press 5 (or whatever setting you want)
 You are done... it definitely took me longer to type this than to do it.


I use an NCE system, and I took a neophyte OVER THE PHONE and had him running in a few minutes on his brand new system. 

The system does not use complicated programming, it prompts you in simple english.


The higher-end systems have more ease of use.

There are some "entry level" system that have an easy to use user interface.


This is why I advise reading about systems, and going to see someone use it, like visiting a club. I read about DCC for about 4 years, and made my decision sight unseen, but I read about every system I could get my hands on.




Regards, Greg


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

How can you not love this site! 
You guys have answered questions in simple english that I didn't even know I had. 
Thank you.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yipper, I agree

Greg this famous NCE system .... Do they have power supplies > 5 amp. Can't seem to find 

And yes there is something to be said re the MTH control system. I think that they are coming out with a proto-sound 3 version that is DCC compatible??? I'm in this for the "sound" If they did this release then the world is mine in being able to work with anyone's loco... 



gg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I still like Airwire, and QSI, even though i still don't know how to use all of it as of yet, but I am learning everyday. bot manuals do leave alot to be desired, but i guess it's like everything else new, you just have to get in there make a few mistakes (hope it doesn't blow anything expensive up) and JUST DO IT!!!! LOL The Regal










DON'T READ THIS POST GO DOWN ONE hee hee


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I still like Airwire, and QSI, even though i still don't know how to use all of it as of yet, but I am learning everyday. both manuals do leave alot to be desired, but i guess it's like everything else new, you just have to get in there make a few mistakes (hope it doesn't blow anything expensive up) and JUST DO IT!!!! LOL The Regal









Sorry for the double post but it would not let me cancel or delete it!!! So for pete sake's just read the second one ok???? LOL


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

GG, their boosters go up to 10 amp capacity. I can point you to an appropriate regulated switching power supply for $85, I use 27 volts and 11 amps. 

Read some of my stuff on DCC on my site, I show the equipment. Now, I just happen to like the NCE throttles best, in terms of what I need and what they cost. There are a number of good systems, and everyone's tolerance for how easy it is to use varies. 

I've got an engineering background, I could use anything myself, but I have visitors, and this system makes the most sense for me. Had a niece bring her 10 year old and 8 year old over the other day, first time. 

After about 1/2 hour of running, they were both not only running by themselves, but they were throwing switches and going through turnouts and ringing the bell, and whistle, and even doing the "doppler shift" on the horn/whistle (a QSI feature)... 

As an aside, it has to be remembered that there are always going to be 2 parts to controlling, how the controller sends/executes commands, and what commands have what effect on the decoders. 

There are a number of "standard" things like what rings the bell, blows the horn, etc. Where the variation is in more complex operations. NCE excels at doing stuff the easy way in my opinion. 

Regards, Greg


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks for all the great responses to the Pres' of the aspiring shortline 3 hrs north of here !

Will have to visit Gregs' site to read up on this NCE sys and then chk for availbility of the various components regionally or as imports !



Simplicity !!? 


doug c

p.s. as i just mentioned on the other thread re: the Revo' sys, OOOOPs CORRECTION !!! 

SORRY I had forgot yesterday to 'translate' retail into Cdn funds !



http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...d/69289/forumid/35/tpage/3/Default.aspx#74636 
the AC beta-test deal seems to be monetarily a deal for us even up here north of the 49th ! SOooooo if you like the challenges of BETA- testing, have the $ to buy in, , and learning new things go for it . . . . . IMHO


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yes, I agree based on my readings. 

I had the opportunity to visit Ray's DCS website as it applies to the MTH system and I was totally blown away by the options and simplicity. 

AND, give me an engine with a flywheel.... it can be refitted. 

I am truly impressed with the MTH system... VERY impressed and as I've said... I have no problem working computers.... soldering them togther is an other issue !. 

Proto-sound 3 may allow for more flexibility and at the same time provide an easy "bullet proof starters" platform? Thus allowing for growth! 

As you can see I am being influenced. 

gg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Is there a fellow Canuk within reach here in the North Country and would this lad be from "Brown Cow Town" ???


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## Steeeeve (Sep 10, 2008)

Greg, 

The NCE website seems to be a little bit on the weak side compared to Digitrax. Is NCE kind of a new company or small company? 
------- 
Also, my two cents, I'm a big fan of two-way communication which makes transponding important to me. I'd like to see Digitrax do more with transponding but so far not much has happened...in any event, those are advanced applications and you want simple  From my short experience here it seems Greg knows his stuff. 

I'd be interested to know if NCE or others are going to bi directional communication. The new Aristo Revolution can but it appears it is a useless feature at this point.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

DCS has transponding capability. 

Prove me wrong...







I am but being educated by the internet and these great chats on the forum.









Becoming bias... GG


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Is there a fellow Canuk within reach here in the North Country and would this lad be from "Brown Cow Town" ??? 


Hi GG, 

I'm over in Victoria...surely all the snow you've got is reason enough for a trip over to the island? Since you're in Alberta, why don't you drive down to Nanton and see Tony at Ultimate Trains? He sells the Massoth DCC gear and you could get him to show it to you. That's the system I use and I'm very happy with it. 

Keith


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

Very interesting thread. I am not a tron kinda guy at all but wanted more than DC had to offer. I looked at all of the different systems and manufacturers and decided that NCE was the least cluttered system out. I have a wireless cab and can program from the main track and there are plenty of guys that have NCE that I can get help from if needed. There are different retailers out that like different products and feel differently than I do. All I can say is I am very happy being a mechanical kinda guy and using the NCE. NCE has been around for a while. check out their web site.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I believe Nanton is south of Calgary. Will check it out. 

Understand that you Islanders are enjoying your fair share of snow as well









Gavin

PS: This MTS system with proto-sound 2/3 seems to be the spitting image of what Aristo is bringing out with their Revolution....


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh yes, we got more than our fair share of snow this year, that's for sure. I always look forward to having a little bit to plow each year, but 2' is more than my little V-blade can handle! I'm going to build a model of one of the modern RhB snowblowers to take care of the deep stuff. 

Nanton is about a 1/2hr drive South of Calgary...easy to find and a must-see place for you. Make sure you go to the Lancaster museum there too--some great history and aircraft. 

Keith


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GG on 01/12/2009 7:57 PM
DCS has transponding capability. 

Prove me wrong...







I am but being educated by the internet and these great chats on the forum.









Becoming bias... GG











DCS does not have Transponding. 
DCS is not even DCC compliant so Transponding or any other DCC feedback I am aware of will not work on it.

DCS may, and I think does, have a proprietary feedback system. I am not aware of a capabilities of any open source software that can read or use the feedback messages from DCS or it DCS supplies sufficient information to do any sort of useful animation. I may be wrong about this last item. I don't follow every propitiatory system out there.


B0B


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Bob, my comment on transponders and DCS way wrong. My apologies.









Now on a general basis< Massoth DCC control look great. Looks like there is "local" support. My question here is that I, as a layperson, open the box and understand how to set the system up including assigning addresses etc?


DCS I feel is brain dead simple however apparently they only use one rail for "commands" which means that you can't run an inner and outer loop with the trains running opposite to each other. The other concern with DCS is "dirty tracks". This type of control is new to the outdoors yes? 


Lastly, SS track is getting negative press as it has low conductivity and is not recommended for DCS. This further asks questions about the viability of DCS on outdoor service.

As you can see by my comments, Aristo's TE Revolution is "out" and I am researching DCS Vs DCC. Both have their pros and cons.









GG


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## Steeeeve (Sep 10, 2008)

I thought aluminum conducted electricity fairly well but that isn't used really...am I wrong about that?...I guess I have to be!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Aluminium conducts electricity very well, but aluminium oxide does not. The surface of aluminium oxidizes VERY rapidly, thus you can heavily sand (abrade) aluminium track and it can be very clean but the oxide forms on the surface almost immediately and is a high resistance connection to the wheels of a locomotive.


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

From where the HQ of my RBR is located west of Calgary International, Edmonton is like 3 hrs and Nanton is close to another hour south on #2 UT is just kiddycorner to the lancaster museum nextdr to the local chew'n choke ! 

I actually haven't bothered driving down there in about 3 yrs. 



GG;
There is at least one other GR enthusaist in your town of St. A' I read over on AC he implied that he hss placed an order for the beta-package ! finally met Allen last yr at our SUPERTRAIN show last April. It may not be a LSTS but there is certainly enough G-gauge for sale to empty attendees bank acc't. You also have a GR club in the edmonton region.




Also, 

The word "proprietary" has been brought up . . . . . Is Massoth not proprietray ? First designed for the LGB system ? 



doug c


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I thought aluminum conducted electricity fairly well but that isn't used really...am I wrong about that?...I guess I have to be!



In my note I was referring to Stainless Steel track. My apologies for the confusion

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Massoth is not propreitary, in that it can issue standard DCC commands. It does support IN ADDITION the serial function commands and some of the other eccentricities of early LGB MTS system components. 

So, a user who has older LGB stuff with early LGB decoders can control them also. 

Massoth is quite expensive compared to many systems, not putting it down, but you need to look at the price and your tolerance for a $1,200 booster. 

It's a nice looking system, and if price was no object, I would consider it for myself. 

Regards, Greg


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanks Greg ! 

Only have one lgb loco and don't have $1200 for just one pc. of a r/c system so won't waste time reading further on that (Mass') sys ! 


doug c


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd say the Massoth system is nice as I had a chance to play with it last month as they are located here in my town. Had to pick up a DCC board for one of my LGB locos. Had I not bought NCE I may have considered buying the Massoth system. Yep it's a bit pricy so I well satisfied with the NCE. Later RJD


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't believe the Massoth is overpriced for the quality and engineering that goes into their gear, but as usual you get what you pay for and features that are important to one user may be of negligble value to another. When I was trying to decide on a DCC system I spent a lot of time reading the online manuals from as many companies as I could. For me a user friendly wireless hand controller was key and in my opinion nothing beats the Massoth Navigator. So for example, while the Zimo gear is also very powerful, I found they didn't have a 'simple' wireless handheld that I liked, and found that trying to decipher their manuals was like pulling teeth. I didn't like the Digitrax or NCE handhelds either. Plainly put, I like the Massoth attention to detail, engineering specs and aesthetic, and their support to me has been excellent. Since I'm running all LGB locos with relatively short prototypical RhB trains, my current demands never go beyond 5 amps even with 3 or 4 engines, so I'm able to get by with MTSIII and the navigator for control, and Massoth XL & XLS sound decoders work very well for me. 
Read and read those online manuals! And good luck! 
Keith


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## supagav (Feb 8, 2008)

Sorry to throw my weight in but I must agree with Keith on Massoth gear.

The stuff is pricy, I completely agree, and it was very hard to fork out that much for all the components you need as well as just the central station, wireless reciever, etc. It was however, worth every penny, and it's backed up by first class tech support. The guys on the phone couldn't have been nicer or more helpful. When our old train engineer died on us a few years ago, we decided to invest in a Massoth unit based on the recommendations of other DCC guys in UK and we haven't looked book. The display on the Navigator handset is fantastic as it shows both a name, number and picture of your loco, whilst listing all the current track output in volts, amps and the total percentage of amps currently in use. The programming side is also a breeze and allows for very quick setup of new decoders, whilst still allowing you to programme in greater detail if you wish to. I don't have much experience with many other DCC systems, but after using Massoth I don't really want to! I love it 
Gavin


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Hello Gavin... nice to meet another Gavin

I really like Massoth and I would rather pay "once" and get the correct equipment. 

However, this famous "DCS" system by MTH is really exciting me despite its limitations and lack of compatibility with the DCC world. 


I like to be a "plug'n play" type of lad. 

Regards, 


Gavin Graham ( aka "GG" )


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## supagav (Feb 8, 2008)

Not sure about DCS, I don't really have any experience with it so I'm not much use there!

You're right about "buy once," the control system for your railroad is possibly one of the biggest and most important choices you can make. It can seriously improve (or hinder) you're whole experience. I guess the only advice I can give is to try and see some of these systems in the flesh so you can compare and see which one is best for you.

Someone famous once said (though sadly i forget who!) that the real value of an something is it's ability to just be installed and forgotten about, like a great refrigerator or heater, you don't have to conciously think about it as its dependable and just works. If only all systems had a little bit of that in them! Thats what I like about Massoth, you can simply switch it on and play as its rugged and esay to use, but then you can edit, programme and customise a wide variety of settings and functions if you want to go to that next level. It's a system for all types of users, which has the added benefit of being both NMRA DCC and LGB MTS compatible should you need it/


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## williep99 (Sep 19, 2008)

GG, I feel your pain. It is a big decision and one not easily reversed. It took me a while to just decide on DCC. The arguments on track power vs. battery are overwhelming in their own right.

After some long suffering, some great input from folks on the forum, and finally, a leap of faith, I decided on the Massoth. It may be the most expensive but this was a decision I only wanted to make once. In my short time on this earth, I've came to the conclusion that you get what you pay for and great deals are few and far between. 

I'm not saying that the other systems aren't excellent, but the Navigator handheld was a big factor. The display itself was also a big seller to me. I like a display that shows items like a loco type so I'm not always trying to remember a numbered address without a little prompting. I also wanted enough power to carry me into the future if my layout ever grew enough.

I believe Cougar Rock was the inspiration to go online and look at the manuals. I am not a big computer geek and may never have the ability to type code, the Massoth looks to allow me alot of function for the price. FedEx says mine will be delivered on the 16th so I'm just slightly ahead of you on the curve.

Damn the valuation of the dollar vs. the euro......

Best of luck, Bill


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

If I had only done this 6 months ago when the CAD$ was sooooo.....


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

GG 
It seems to me that you first have to decide how much you want to spend. Then how many locos are you planning to run. Me, being cheap, went with a MRC Prodgy advance system and their 8 amp booster. It does everything I need, runs every DCC chip I've thrown at it LGB,MRC, QSI, Nce and digitrax. However I don't care about transpoding(to complex) I just want 4 or 5 engines running around my track and doing different things. with the horns honking and bells ringing (my neighbors love me). MRC does this at about $250us including booster. I could go wireless but wire is so relable and easy. I don't know about DCS, don't even know were to get parts. 
Hope this helps 
Bill


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Bills on 02/16/2009 8:26 PM
GG 
It seems to me that you first have to decide how much you want to spend. Then how many locos are you planning to run. Me, being cheap, went with a MRC Prodgy advance system and their 8 amp booster. It does everything I need, runs every DCC chip I've thrown at it LGB,MRC, QSI, Nce and digitrax. However I don't care about transpoding(to complex) I just want 4 or 5 engines running around my track and doing different things. with the horns honking and bells ringing (my neighbors love me). MRC does this at about $250us including booster. I could go wireless but wire is so relable and easy. I don't know about DCS, don't even know were to get parts. 
Hope this helps 
Bill 


















Hi Bill, 

Your comments are very appropriate and well appreciated as they are so true. Yes I want simplicity, a train that works and responds to my commands. DCC does offer this. 


DC is good and enjoyable however somewhat like what I played with as a child. 

DCC is a going rage with total flexibility however somewhat technical and the need for a total saavy to enjoy the benefits. 


DCS is proprietary by MTH trains. As Greg related to, this is the MAC computer which is a niche market in a Microsoft Operating System world (DCC) 


You can conclude which one I went with.... I need "plug'n play" with my trains, I love bells, whistles and really neat cla-chunks, not to mention people talking on my trains... I like true 1:32 representation and proportion compared to my LGB starter and oversized "toy train". 


I need to get set up and run my trains while I focus on the tunnels, tressels, and my wife's plants that will create this garden railroad. I chose MTH for the history, user feedback and quality of their comments, product accuracy and simplicity of it all. 


Bye the way, outside of the cost of the locomotives, the cost of of the wireless remote and TIU unit was $240, And you can put as many locos on it as ..... all run by one wireless remote.. 


Software upgrades via internet are free. 


I will be sure to post pictures and videos of my Hudson and Triplex on receipt of same and naturally as I set them up to take over my livingroom to start... then my back yard as the year progresses. 

Thanks. 


gg


PS: I have plans to introduce Massoth and DCC into the big pic, this to allow me to learn the higher end of the technology... issue is affordability and time.


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

I think MTH engines are very nice, they look right to me and the sound I've heard on on their o scales is great. I like a lot of different types of engines and brands, and am not interested in modleing a single scale or time or road. That's why I went with DCC. I think if you're staying in 1/32 nd then MTH is the only way to go, as I don't know of another maufacturer that builds to that scale, accept some of the high end and AML. MTH also makes the least expensive GG1. if you go with MTH you have to go with DCS. Of course I could be wrong as I rarely know what I'm talking about


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Bill, there is a lad called.... Ray who hides in this forum who can sort out the flexibility here and provide serious input to your quality statements. 


Regards, 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I played with a DCS system in depth for a while Sunday, and debugged some problems and learned a lot. 

Some nice things, some dumb things. Will be adding a DCS page to my web site soon, will be tips and techniques to help others, and a lot of what I learned. 

I will tell you that it's not really comparable to DCC. It's a smart system that has some simplifications that make it easy to use, but some other design issues that I don't like. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Look forward to seeing your web page on DCS Greg. I was on your site last night snooping around, picking up tidbits.... very good. 

And yes you site is too slanted to DCC.... DCS will balance things out... hehehe....







We don't want a "polarized" situation here do we????????????????



gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My site started out as an electronic "notepad" to myself about things I learned that were not in the manual so to speak. It evolved to me sharing tips and techniques that I felt were helpful to others, again, without duplicating what was already in the "manual". 

Since I do not run battery or just plain DC, those areas are "light", and will probably never be as detailed as what I have learned on DCC. 

But a lot of the site is devoted to trackwork, and tips and techniques for rolling stock and locomotives, which is pretty applicable to all. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02/17/2009 9:33 AM
My site started out as an electronic "notepad" to myself about things I learned that were not in the manual so to speak. It evolved to me sharing tips and techniques that I felt were helpful to others, again, without duplicating what was already in the "manual". 

Since I do not run battery or just plain DC, those areas are "light", and will probably never be as detailed as what I have learned on DCC. 

But a lot of the site is devoted to trackwork, and tips and techniques for rolling stock and locomotives, which is pretty applicable to all. 

Regards, Greg















A bit of time Greg and I'm sure that within the year that you will have a DCS loco on your layout for "testing" purposes....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Could be, especially after they add DCC capability to their system. 

There was a lot of hair pulling until I learned about the "polarity" issue... weird. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yup I learned alot over this conversation you had on trouble shooting DCS.... 

No system is perfect.

gg


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