# Is there a method recommended for cleanning brass track really well?



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

I have bought a lot of second hand brass track and have found that very dirty brass track reduces connectivity to the point of stopping the train.
I use a traditional car polishing product "Rubbing" and fine steel wool to clean extremely tarnished old copper , copper that was part of a 100 year old copper roof. 
Would the same method be OK for my brass track?
Would this I found on the net be better for my track? -Vinegar, Salt and Flour: These versatile home staples can be combined to make a paste to clean tarnished brass. Dissolve 1 teaspoon of salt into one-half cup of vinegar, and add flour until the mixture becomes a paste. Rub into the brass, leave for about 10 minutes, then rinse with warm water and buff dry.- Toothpaste is also recommended instead of flour.
Or is there another method recommended to clean brass track really well?


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

T3;

I am sure that a lot of folks will weigh in on this subject. I am certainly not an expert, but I will caution you NOT to use steel wool. It leaves behind a multitude of fine particles that can get into your train and short things out electrically. This is true for both track and battery operations, so please do not even consider steel wool.

Regards,
David Meashey


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

T^3,
I would suggest using denatured alcohol to clean the rails without scoring scratches into the railhead. The more texture you have on the railhead, the smaller the contact points become...plus you give a place for dirt to accumulate. 

While you dont want the rail to be dirty, I have found that tarnished rail (weather dark) will still work as intended. 

To further test your continuity problem, I would better examine the joints. If you have any rail clamps on hand, I would try replacing the factory joiners on a few test pieces.


----------



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I use a green scotchbrite pad on the end of sanding pole with a swivel head for routine cleaning. For heavier grudge like yours you could connect the track together on your driveway then use the pole sander with scotchbrite pad and a bucket of warm soapy water. You can also use goo gone or rubbing alcohol. Do not use anything that will scratch the track. 
Remember the track does not have to be shiny clean to conduct electricity. Most brass track will turn brown with age. All you need to do is clean the tops of the rail like mentioned. Don't forget your engines pickup wheels. If they are dirty you will continue to have problems even with brand new track. 

Here is a how to video I made.


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Perhaps review this ongoing thread here

http://forums.mylargescale.com/29-beginner-s-forum/49514-track-maintenance.html


Jerry


----------



## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

TTT, if you use a green kitchen scourer pad with some white vinegar to get rid of the oxide all your track rails will come up like a new car. BLING! 

Andrew


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Since train motors have magnets, steel wool will find its way to the motor and cause severe damage, so steel wool should never be used on trains.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, if you really want to abrade the tracks, you can get fine "bronze wool" that is not magnetic and the particles left behind as it wears will not rust.

One interesting thing here is that you need to separate the 2 functions: 

1. Cleaning track, getting it clean, debris, tree sap, etc.
2. removing oxide, the chemical change to the surface

Some methods do both, like scotchbrite, although tree sap may clog it and smear over the rails.

Some methods only can clean goop, but not remove oxidation, like solvents.

May I suggest you read this page:

http://www.elmassian.com/trains/track-aamp-switches/track-cleaning

Greg


----------



## Cataptrra (Mar 16, 2015)

Anyone ever try the product CLR on your tracks? 

Since it removes a lot of contaminants and clears clogs from showerheads, etc. I'd think this product would work. Just wipe the tracks down with it on a clean cloth, then wipe with another clean dry cloth. This is what I've been considering using since it would be the easiest method {I would think} without a lot of scrubbing or buffing the rails to get them clean.

So has anyone tried CLR, and if so, what were your results in using it?

If not, I guess I'll have to be the "guinea pig" and give it a try and see how well it does or does not work.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I think that it might be more work than the other suggestions. 

I just checked a bottle of lime away, a similar product. Their directions say to use rubber gloves and not to use it on aluminum and polished metals because of possible pitting. It is designed for calcium and iron I don't know how it will work on brass.

It also needs to be rinsed.

It won't work on sap, smashed bugs, and other organic debris. Swiffer or green pad is the easiest and safest way to go. If needed alcohol or some other organic solvent is better than an inorganic solvent.

Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Agreed, and also do you want acid dripping down your rails onto your ties and into the ground? If you use acid, you should really neutralize it afterwards.

Remember that switches have parts underneath that can get damaged.

I think the ideas of acid cleaners is not a good idea.

Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I just looked up the MSDS (Material safety data sheets) for LimeAway and CLR. Lime away has a pH of 0.1 to 0.3 and CLR's is 2.1 to 2.3. These are strongly to moderately acidic. I, would not want something that acidic near my track and as Greg said near switches. 

Chuck


----------



## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Just for comparison, white vinegar is typically pH 2.5 and a dilution strength of 5%.
Remember with pH, each number less is a multiple of 10 times the acidity so 'Lime Away' could be well over 100 times the acidity of white vinegar not considering dilution strength.

White vinegar works well if you want to get rid of the oxide for shiny brass rails.
Vinegar used with a green ScotchBrite type scourer, it is mainly the tops that get the new brass look. The sides will still be a little dull. There is no point in over doing it. Rinse all at the end with water.

Andrew


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The concern I would have with scotchbrite, is how often you would need to add the fluid, it does not work like a sponge, i.e. retain liquid without dripping. The scotchbrite is very "open weave". If you had a gelled form of CLR / Limeaway it might work.

Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I never add fluid to my pad!

It is a very open structure. I doubt that is will ever act like a sponge. I use the smaller size to scrub pots, when I squeeze out the pad after scrubbing the pot, very little moisture comes out.

Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was responding to Andrew's post with scotchbrite.

I'd also make a mild solution with baking soda to neutralize the acid if I could not thoroughly flood it with water, and I think I'd still use a weak solution in any case.

Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Deleted


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

(this emoticon is supposed to say "cool") 

Thanks Chuck, 

Greg


----------



## Cataptrra (Mar 16, 2015)

chuck n said:


> I think that it might be more work than the other suggestions.
> 
> I just checked a bottle of lime away, a similar product. Their directions say to use rubber gloves and not to use it on aluminum and polished metals because of possible pitting. It is designed for calcium and iron I don't know how it will work on brass.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info Chuck. The only reason I was thinking of using CLR is because in their commercials they use it on all kinds of things, brass pots, metal shower heads, in your coffee maker to clean it out {plastic and metal components there too}, and I've seen some commercials showing it being used on automobiles, so I thought it may have been safe enough to use on our outdoor trackage rights. Looks like that isn't the case, so I'll just keep using a rubber pencil eraser, alcohol and other non-toxic, non-acidic items to clean my rails in the yard.

Not so bad with my current layout, which is abut 9-1/2 foot wide by 11 foot long, but when I decide to expand it and replace everything with all new USA Track since Aristo is now out of business, was shocked to learn that! Anyway future expansion will make my layout about 64 foot long by aprox 14 foot wide in the areas I'm planning on using, be even longer if I opt to go completely around our house, just not sure I want to go that big, since I'd have some obstacles to overcome and figure out.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

A Scotchbrite green pad on a sanding pole, see my post earlier in this thread, is by far the easiest way to go. A pencil eraser isn't.

Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Worked best for me (scotchbrite) in the short time I used brass track. Graduated to LGB track cleaning loco, and then graduated again to stainless steel.

Greg


----------



## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Years ago we had a pretty good flood and a bunch of spare track got buried (don't leave spare track next to your uncovered dirt pile). Other fixes took priority and it was a long time before the track was retrieved. The track by that time was pure black.

Wanda recommended a clothes cleaning product called "Whink Rust Stain Remover". I figured if it wouldn't hurt clothes is shouldn't hurt Brass.

The stuff worked like a charm and while I wouldn't recommend burying track, I did wind up with a shinning top of the track and fully weathered sides.


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

I'm afraid I might have done something dumb. What started this very usefull thread about cleaning track probably was not dirty track but small particles of metal in the motor from my brass sheet cleaning. Like David Meashey warned at the very beginning. However the motor on my LGB 0 4 0 is running ok now, it only stuttered a little at the beginning. But it worries me. Should I do something to the 0 4 0 to remove metal particles from the motor? Or just consider myself lucky?


----------



## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

If you can find a stronger magnet like one from a large speaker driver (I have one stuck to my fridge that is difficult to pull off) it might help pull the steel wool particles from the motor.
I use that big magnet to find lost nuts and screws in the long grass. 
That stuff can get into the commutator and wear things or jam the motor up.

Andrew


----------



## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

A company called Norton makes a woven pad specifically for removing corrosion. It is the right size for a dry wall sander. It is brown, or dark red in color. The model number seems to be 48148; but a search on their web site doesn't turn anything up.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Test those first on a scrap of brass. They might be too abrasive, even in the smaller grit sizes.

Chuck

Note added.

There is a hardness scale that geologists and mineralogists use to help identify minerals. It is the MOHs scale. Talc is 1 the softest and diamond is 10, the hardest. A material with a higher hardness value will scratch one with a lower number. If you want to remove material quickly you want a bigger difference, if you want to polish a surface you want almost similar hardness, or very small grain size in a harder abrasive.

Teeth are the mineral apatite, a hardness of 5. You would not want diamond dust in your tooth paste, over the long run you would grind ( polish) them away. Brass has a hardness of 3-4, sandpaper is usually quartz, hardness 7, emory paper is 8-9, carborundum is about 9.5.

I do not know the specific compound in the Norton Fabric, but in the past they have been known for making carborundum abrasives. If the fabric has carborundum as the abrasive, you will scratch the brass rather than polish it. In my lab I used 1 micrometer diamond dust as a final step in the polishing of samples prior to analysis. Earlier steps required 600 and 1200 mesh emory paper to flatten the surface followed by smaller and smaller diamond dust to get a final smooth polish. While the surface is flat after the final emory pass, there are still deep scratches present.

This is a long way to say that the hardness of the green Scotchbrite pad doesn't significantly scratch the brass, but removes the oxides. Other material can and does. Just try it on something before using it regularly on your track.

The bottom line is you want to polish your track, not grind it away over time. Scratches also add to more places for dirt to collect.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm confused, are the metal particles in the motor bits of brass or bits of steel?

Greg


----------



## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

The best way is to disassemble the motor and clean well. Don't use paper or cotton swabs they leave junk all over. Tooth picks to pick out embedded stuff and soft rags. Be very very careful with the commutator( part where the carbon brushes rub against) there needs to be the cracks, use a strong magnifying glass to see the details. Sharpened toothpicks work good there.


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Its hard to tell at this point if the particles that have reached the motor , if any have, are from the steel wool or the brass sheet. When I clean a bit of brass there are lots of both left on the table. I was working cleaning brass bits with the 0 4 0 on the same table. I don't do that anymore. And two times, just two times I had to give the LGB 0 4 0 a little push to make it run. After that it seems to run OK, I would like to open it and check , I would need a magnifying glass because the particles are very small.
JP I can't visualize a toothpick removing them if they are magnetized. I do not clearly understand "there needs to be the cracks" 
Since my work on the table is kitbashing the LGB 0-4-0 , I have disassembled it to the point of taking the cabin, saddle and bumpers of and separating the tank from the motorblock. I've never opened the motor block or seen the motor. How does one open it?


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Many LGB motors have open windings due to the enameled wire is pinched, not soldered in the little forks.
I scrape the enamel off and use a tiny bit of solder to fix these and get many more years of running from them.


----------



## Cataptrra (Mar 16, 2015)

Dan, I do use the green scrubby pads, I just put them under my track cleaning car, which also uses a large square pencil eraser type pad {why I stated I use pencil erasers for cleaning my track}. That way the loco can pull the car around cleaning the track and I don't have to get a sore back from standing using a pole to clean the track.


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

I'm pretty sure its good news for my LGB Rusty 0-4-0 . I took of the 4 screws that hold the bottom, I looked with strong magnification, everything looks immaculately new and clean in there, the entire construction looks very airtight, I doubt very much anything could get past to the motor. I was planning on attempting to pick up metal parts with a very small piece of masking tape but it was not necessary. Thanks for the help and concern.


----------



## tommyheadleycox (Oct 15, 2010)

s-4 said:


> T^3,
> I would suggest using denatured alcohol to clean the rails without scoring scratches into the railhead. The more texture you have on the railhead, the smaller the contact points become...plus you give a place for dirt to accumulate.
> 
> While you dont want the rail to be dirty, I have found that tarnished rail (weather dark) will still work as intended.
> ...


I second the suggestion about looking at the joints. In my experience, it turns out to be "jumping the gun" to automatically blame poor running on dirty track. Poor joiner connectivity should be looked at first.


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

simple as this is, besides the vinegar (which I have used)

There is nothing more effective and safe, imho, than a red LGB cleaning block.

It takes a bit more effort, and down on the knees, but typically with 2 or 3 strokes, the track top is very clean, stubborn bits are easily addressed, and the track isn't scratched. I have, as of late, taken to using this INSTEAD of my cleaning loco, simply because its so much more effective, and for me, with limited track, actually takes less time than a two or three go rounds.

I completely agree about joiners, but clean track, imho, is equally a factor often. joiners and the rail section inserted, both should be, clean, and tight.

I have had good success removing green oxidants and various crud in joiners using a rough pipe cleaner, an old toothbrush with detergent, and, liquid flux with a cotton swab with badly corroded, then thoroughly cleaned and rinsed.


----------

