# DEER - why do they hate me?



## Kevin Miller (Jan 5, 2008)

This is what my arborvitae looked like 3 years ago before the deer decided they were on the menu.  They were growing so nice and were just about touching each other creating the wind and view block I wanted.











Two years ago the deer decided this was their pirvate smorgasbord.  By the end of last summer the trees had started to grow back together but the deer took care of that this winter.  There should also be more green plants around the tracks but those were eaten to the ground.  The only thing they didn't touch was the alberta spruce.  The ground is chopped up pretty bad too.  At least they seem to avoid the track.  But they step close and my ballast gets shoved into the gournd.  They seem to leave the trees alone in the summer.  I will probably try one of the motion senseing sprinklers next fall.   Fences or a dog are out of the question.  It would take at least a 6 foot fence and my wife is scared of animals.  If I can't find a solution I'll probably give up on the outdoor railroad.  I've gotten to the point where I feel there is no use continueing a loosing battle.


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## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

As the old saying goes, "There's always room for the deer. Right next to the mashed potatoes". 

John


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Topiari? 

Later, 

K


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't think they hate you, I think they don't like the trees being in the veiw of your Rail Road. Since you probably only run during the day, the trees block thier veiw. They want to watch the trains too, but don't want to be up there scaring your wife. So, they trim the trees back so they can watch from a safe distance. 
  You could put one of the trains on a timer and let it run at night when you think the deer are out there, making the whistle blow as it passes the trees, and after a week or two, the deer might not come back. Try that, see if it helps. Your layout is pretty awsome and it would be a shame to see it disapear.

  Cliff


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

That's a shame Kevin. I hope you don't have to give up on the railroad. 

I had nothing but trouble with the deer when I had my track at ground level on raised beds. I lost 80' of track in one night plus many other violations. The deer decided that the track was a path to walk along even though they avoided it initially. People will give you all kinds of remedies to get rid of the deer but the only one that really works is to shoot 'em! Even then more will come later like a plague of giant rats! 

Deer will eat practically anything especially during times when food is limited. One thing they don't eat are rhodies although they will eat azaleas. Since I put the RR on a raised benchwork at nominal 40" height they haven't bothered it. Of course there are no plants on it either except for several kinds of native moss and the deer do pass beneath the benchwork. 

A dog does tend to scare the deer off and it doesn't have to be a large one although it shouldn't be a tiny variety. Deer have quite a kick and can kill a dog if they hit it. Still not foolproof though. 

Your railroad's a real beauty and is worth fighting for. I understand how frustrating it is. It sounds like you need a really hefty roadbed like concrete or something to protect the track or consider raising it on benchwork as I've done. If you decide to go the benchwork route and want to see what I've done as a possible option you're most welcome to visit. 

I don't know what to say about the trees except to replace them with something extremely poisonous. hehe!


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I bought 20 wireless deer fences.  They have a battery in the bottom and an electrode at the top with a scent that supposedly attracts the deer.  The idea is that they will touch the electrode with their wet noses and quickly learn to stay away.  I put them around my garden and around some other plants we had.

They were basically ineffective.  Our petunia patch was eaten down to the nubs and  I had 4 of these things around it.

The deer have never walked through my railroad for some r eason.  My track is on the ground.  

These deer fence things have a two year warranty on them.  I am sending them back this week for a refund.  They cost 20 dollars apiece.

Your railroad ran really well and looked good.  Don't give it up.


PS:  The deer also ate our Rhododendrons!

John


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Shoot em. Deer aren't completely stupid, when they realize that eating those trees subtracts one from the herd, they get the point. If you aren't into shooting them, contact your local game warden. They have all kinds of tricks to get rid of them. (usually they hire someone to shoot them) but other tricks are using urine of predators. Round here dog wizz is enough to keep em away, but they have plenty to eat elsewhere. It is unfortunate that they are harrassing you. But don't give up on the railroad. Maybe a diferent type of tree? Claymores? Landmines? 
Good Luck 
Terry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Try tying white plastic grocery bags on a few tree branches. Sounds silly, but the deer see the white bag flopping in the breeze, and think it's another deer running away from danger. (No one said deer were necessarily smart creatures.) I had deer problems on my railroad back in Rochester--the little buggers found my wife's vegetable garden that was inside one of my reverse loops. I laughed myself silly when someone told me to try that, but I figured what the heck. So, I tied some white plastic grocery bags to the tomato trellis, and s'om beach, it worked! I continued to see evidence of deer along the edge of the property, but they no longer ventured into the yard. I don't know if your particular species of deer are quite as dumb as the Rochester species--they've got to be pretty damned stupid to want to spend winter in that climate--but give it a shot. 

Later, 

K


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin: 

You may try contacting your local Cooperative Extension Service. They likely have dealt with this problem many times before, and may be able to recommend measures that are particularly effective in your area.


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

The only thing that I have found that was effective was a fence and a big dog.  Especially a dog that expects a treat every time she chases of a deer that gets near the fence.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

The term, "Venison" comes to mind! Deer can be very tasty.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mine don't hate me, they LOVE me, apparently my hundreds of dollars of Tuilp bulbs from Holland are some sort of expensive all you can eat deer salad bar....here they are in the side yard just yesterday....












If I could only get them to eat the neghbor's (not been used in years) trampoline!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Joe Johnson on 02/29/2008 5:43 AM
The only thing that I have found that was effective was a fence and a big dog.  Especially a dog that expects a treat every time she chases of a deer that gets near the fence.




We had a trio in the back yard (fenced) last weekend.  I sent my Corgi bitch out back to "run" them off (she is a hearding dog afterall) but one of the does charged her?!?!  And she quckly retreated under the deck!


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## Bret W Tesson (Jan 6, 2008)

You might try nailing a few with paintballs...really. It will smart like **** and might be enough to make them remember.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

We have shot our deer with paint balls from about 50 feet.

It had no effect on them.  They did not seem to even notice.

John


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jbwilcox on 02/29/2008 5:13 PM
We have shot our deer with paint balls from about 50 feet.

It had no effect on them.  They did not seem to even notice.

John

Freeze 'em first


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

The problem is you are trying to get rid of the deer. They like your trees in the winter because there is less to eat in the winter. Plant something else that they would like better outside of your trees and let them feast! You could also try a recording of a dog barking but I doubt it will work very long.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here in the interior we have neither snakes nor deer. But we do have moose and mosquitoes.  

Of course, like Richard, I have a raised railroad. It's still not high enough to avoid the moose horns, although I haven't seen moose in the enclosed area in a few years. So far so good. Those moose can tear up just about anything, including my fence.


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## Kevin Miller (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the sympathy guys. I guess I shouldn't complain too much, they did leave my trees alone the first 8 years since I planted them. I would try the frozen paintball trick but they come around a night while we are asleep. By the amount of droppings they leave I'd say they pretty much live in my back yard at night. Hopefully I can come up with a cure for this problem by next fall. They seem to leave us alone in the summer. 

I wonder if anyone makes a motion sensing tazer yet????????


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Put something else out for them to eat in the winter.    Try Bales of Hay.   Consult a zoo dude.  Fine out what they like other than your trees.  
If they are eating the bark.  Try  placing  some   tree branches have have been  trimed from other trees.  When I trim my  Plaoverdi trees   I place the  cut branches down my the  back  fence.   The bunny rabbits go nuts.   When they arent at my  bale of hay. 

The came around me  because I put out  a hay bale and have water.   They are much more  adapt at jumping over my bridges than the  big  range cattle.  
Which I have been assured that they all have been rounded up this time and there aint one cattle left.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Check your local ordinances about feeding the wildlife... other than planting ornamentals that they eat anyway!!!


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

John

Put something else out for them to eat in the winter.  


Feeding them doesn't help.  You start with 20 starving deer.  You feed them.  Then you have 40 starving deer.


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I grew up in western Pennsylvania. The farmers there grow a lot of corn. Deer love corn. The only thing they love more that corn is sweet corn (field corn use as cattle feed). So most of the farmers plant a few rows of sweet corn along the outside of their fields. The deer eat the sweet corn and leave the rest of the corn field alone. Deer aren't rabbits the have a breading season and are territorial. The generally don't change territories unless they need to. However there may be more deer in the area that what you are seeing. I know in Pa you can shoot any deer on your property year round and if a deer on someone elses property is causing damage to your property you can shoot it also. But if I were going to shoot one out of seasson I would contact the game warden first just because. You also might try something like gettion lion uren and dripping it aling the edgd of your trees.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry to see that, Kevin.  Sure a shame.  However, we do live with the wild.  We have a herd of 25+ javelina trot near out place about once a week.  So far they've stayed out of the RR...


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## MarkLewis (Jan 2, 2008)

I am stunned. Around here the only places I see deer are at railroad crossings and laid out along the sides of the highway. It is a bit annoying to look both ways at a crossing just in time to see a deer bound across it. Do they really use railroads as their own highways?

Mark


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Has anyone ever tried using ultrasonic deer alarms? These things are battery or AC powered...emit a tuneable ultrasonic signal (to adjust for different size animals)...and are triggered by body heat. They look like the sensors on sensor lights. Do they work?


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Motion sensing sprayers are effective too 

Anybody remember the video of the guy who built a squirrel catapult to launch squirrels who got too curious?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice big empty adjacent field there. 

Just line the bottom of those trees with a couple of these 









After the first two or three go off, I think the deer will steer clear...







...might want to warn the gardener tho..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

We are in an odd place geographically where it would seem a good place for the deer but to date I've only seen deer "near" our house 5 times in a year and half. Twice about a hundred yards away in the treeline behind the house and twice on the street I live on. Once up teh street and twice down the street. 

I currently more concerned about the other wildlife reportedly near our home. Once last fall on the way home late at night something yellowish and dog like ran across the road in front of me. The neighbor said we had coyotes in the area (the woods behind the house) but until then I'd not seen a trace of them. Just this week however as I went outside to start the van on Tuesday morning "something" ran from close behind our house at top speed to the woods behind the house. Moved more like a cat than a dog and reportedly there are Bobcats in the area but not close to us. Again it ran almost straight away from me so I did not get a good look and the movement thing could be wrong. Both being predators I'm more conerned currently about them. Since I know we will soon have a cat in the house and are considering getting a puppy (sigh) I'm mostly concerned for them but for the girls too.

I've not decided on the style of layout yet raised or on the ground and if raised how. So for now the deer aren't currently drawn to the house. Currently no attractive plantings that would draw them in either. 

Oh yes we've seen Turkey back by the woods too!

Unfortunately none of that area is legal to hunt being lass than 100 yards deep and having an interstate on teh far side of the woods. My wife love venison and I love turkey. Maybe time to take up archery?

Good luck with your critter problems! 

Chas


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

2 Semi cruel videos here,, Very funny though lolol


Squirrel Catapult

Anti-Squirrel Bird Feeder (I almost fell out of my chair on this one)



Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtOdzIjbUXA&feature=related 

Dont forget the new Ronco Cat Launcher


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By afinegan on 03/06/2008 10:54 AM
2 Semi cruel videos here,, Very funny though lolol


Squirrel Catapult


Andrew




Thanks, funny vid and Jane's Addiction too!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

That's the one! What a hoot! 

BTW: The squirrels likely weren't harmed by that. 

I'd have been more likely to "trebuchet" them.


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## Skip (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's the manufacturer's video for the anti-squirrel bird feeder


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Chas -- 

We have coyotes and bobcats here. You won't have to worry about your daughters, and if the dog is large enough it's probably safe. The cat has to be kept inside at night and any time you aren't home. Our neighbors with outdoor cats lose them regularly.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Droll Yankee: Attracts songbirds and amuses squirrels. "This is more fun than a hoola hoop!"


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## billsharron (Jan 3, 2008)

Deer hate daffodils, You can often get them in bags of 50 or 100 cheap at home stores or places like Wal=Mart stores. They won't help right away, but are great for gardens, plant them among vegatable gardens or flower gardens. After they bloom and die away DO NOT cxlean up the dead leaves. I am a plant hybridizer, and deer could cost me many thousands of dollars. Another method is an electric fence. Deer are browsers, and almost always have their heads down grazing on somthing. I use one wire about six inches above the ground and a second wire about 18 inches above the ground. The browsing deer touch the wire get shocked and learn to stay away. This method may not work in subdivisions where food is extremely scarce, but can be effective inj more rural areas, where homes are not so close together. Of course spooked deer will run right through the wire, or over it. Deer like cattle will become fence trained and seem to learn form their parents. I have areas of fence where i don't even power it anymore and they still stay away. Either or both of these methods will not work overnight and require patience. 

It is best never to put feed out for the deer to encoutage them not to eat your trees or plants. They are extremely smart and will pass the word about your free meal, and more will come. It could also get very expensive, with feed corn and other feeds since the prices have skyrocketed in the past two years. Trust me on this , do not feed them!!!!! 

While Dog & Fox urine do work, they have a very short life, and rain & moisture shorten it even more. You have to apply it very frequently, maybe daily if you have a lot of rain. The expense is also high. This is also true of other store bought repellants as well. 

Most scare methods are only effective for a few days or so, till they get used to it. 

There are other plants which seem to repel deer other than dqaffodils, but I can't find the list. I found that the daffodils work so well, I never tried the others. 

All in a what works for one will not always work for another. Deer in close subdivisions if starving will defeat any man made system in order to survive. 

Since deer no longer have any predators, other than man, they will become even more of a problem. Even hunting has little effect, because hunters go after the big bucks, and leave the does to have more fawns. I would like to see some type of roundup and elimination of does, by harvesting the meat and using it in some meaningful way. 

I have rambled on for too long, but wish you good luck combating the problem!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that sounds like advice from an expert.


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## Kevin Miller (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks for the ideas. That's the first time I heard of the daffodil solution. I'm affraid in my case I think they will reach right over them. But for now they will have a free meal for several more months.


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Another plant to try is Rosemary. Deer hate strong smelling plants with lots of sap in them. We have tons of rosemary now growing along the fence line. Besides, it makes a great fresh herb when you are cooking stews!


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Just one note: 

While there are plants that deer won't eat don't count on them keeping your other plants safe. We had a plant that a neighbor brought over for safe keeping while she was going to be away. Now deer hate herbs and Helen had a whole selection of them growing beneath a garden window along with a rhododendrin and placed the plant smack in the middle of them. A few nights later a deer climbed the flight of stairs, nine of 'em, and plucked that one plant off almost to the ground right from the midst of everything without damaging the rest of the plantings at all. The owner of the plant returned shortly thereafter and was presented with a stub. I found it quite amusing but she hasn't spoken to Helen since. 

As stated above in Loco Bill's excellent post deer won't eat daffodils. Also they seem to leave Iris's alone. We have them growing wild up here. Add to that most herbs, trees with pine needles and rhodies. Unfortunately they eat just about everything else we have up here including tulips, roses and azeleas which are related to rhodies. 

Electric fences work but the deer here will continuously test it by putting their noses up to it and quickly withdrawing it if they feel anything. Too they will jump right over it. A six foot fence is no obstacle at all. They need to be at least 8 feet tall. I had a lower 4 foot electric fence along one side of the railroad just to discourage deer from climbing up on the planter bed and tracks. One day I heard a bawling from outside and there was a fawn straddling the wire with one leg on each side and mommy just standing there watching. I quickly went down and turned the fence off so the fawn could get off. 

I think many of the "remedies" that are highly touted may work in residential zones where access is a bit more challenging with multiple fences, dogs, traffic and heavy human activity. I have found none that work in a rural setting that are economical. A couple of good sized dogs working together can keep them at bay usually because the deer will go where it is easiest first. I did see an advertisement for an 8 foot fencing system that supposedly can stop a deer in its tracks at full running speed but even here they warn people to be sure the bottom of the fence is secured because deer will nose it upwards and slip beneath. That shows their determination.


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