# Some Days You Just Want to Hide Under a Rock!



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

But it's a matter of finding just the right rock! If you can't find it, I've found an easy way to make your own.
I created this artifical rock using my hydraulic cement sifting technique that I usually use on Styrofoam. In this case I bent the wire armature out of 1/2" wire cloth and fitted it around the sprinkler to form a rock shape.
I then laid a couple paper towels over the armature and started sifting and spraying while rotating the assembly (required a few siftings). Voila!




Note that when the outter surface was sifted and sprayed, it leaves a hard shell but it doesn't even penetrate through the paper towels.



And this is the intended placement.


Note that at this point, no attempt has been made to color match the surrounding rocks or to add texture. After these photos were taken, the excess paper towel was cut away from the underside and the inside had the hydraulic cement sifting technique applied for additional strength.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Wow, they came out good. i could use 50 please.............









Much easier to move them around than the real things............


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd, do you have a link to where you go into detail on your technique, it came out great! 

Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

If that holds up under sun and rain, it's going to be a boon to Garden railroading. I can see whole mountain ranges and cliffs made of this stuff. 

Thanks for posting Todd


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I just thought, you could add some red food coloring and have the Sedona Red Rock Moutains


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Nice looking rock 

Is there something special about Hydraulic Cement?

Is there a reason you chose that.?

JJ


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks guys. 

The technique was included in the April 2011 Garden Railroad Magazine that was attriburted to Jerry Paladino. This month's issue prints a correction acknowledging me as the author and photographer. 

Hydraulic cement is totally waterproof and sets up immediately. You can even use it to seal leaks underwater without first removing the water from the pond. It is finer than any mortar as it has no sand. Using a strainer and alternating misting with a spray bottle, I can sift it on to any desired thickness without even getting my hands dirty. It gets strong at ~1/4" thick but serves as a coating in any thickness.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can we get a pdf of the article from you? 

Can you post some of it here w/o violating any Clambake stuff? 

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Actually, I documented it here a couple years before Clambake published it. It should be in the archives with pics.

Basically it just comes down to making your base, be it in styrofoam, cement board, or paper towels on wire mesh (I've used all), and using a kitchen strainer to sift Quickcrete Hydraulic Water-Stopping Cement over it while misting the work with a spray bottle until it saturates. Just sift and mist to the desired thickness. Let one side dry and you can rest it to do the other side and present a horizontal surface.

You can fill in gaps and holes by first putting the dry cement in the trouble spots to build them up prior to a final blending. When using the paper towels, I filled in any folds and "caves" so that the towel can't flex in the future and crack the cement because it presents a weak spot.

I do it in a plastic cement mixing trough. It's that easy.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Uhh... remember the archives are gone... kaput??? 

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 28 May 2011 02:28 PM 
Thanks guys. 

The technique was included in the April 2011 Garden Railroad Magazine that was attriburted to Jerry Paladino. This month's issue prints a correction acknowledging me as the author and photographer. 

Hydraulic cement is totally waterproof and sets up immediately. You can even use it to seal leaks underwater without first removing the water from the pond. It is finer than any mortar as it has no sand. Using a strainer and alternating misting with a spray bottle, I can sift it on to any desired thickness without even getting my hands dirty. It gets strong at ~1/4" thick but serves as a coating in any thickness. 

You say "It gets strong at ~1/4" thick". How strong?

I have always wanted a large rock in my yard showing a bias relief of a Steam Loco coming out of a tunnel on one side and a Caboose in the tunnel on the opposite side. This might be a way to get such a "rock" without massive equipment to drag a real one into position after carving. Do you have any idea how thick it would have to be to withstand a person sitting or standing on it? Say a "rock" about 2-ft deep, 3-ft wide and 2-ft tall...


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 28 May 2011 05:25 PM 
Posted By toddalin on 28 May 2011 02:28 PM 
Thanks guys. 

The technique was included in the April 2011 Garden Railroad Magazine that was attriburted to Jerry Paladino. This month's issue prints a correction acknowledging me as the author and photographer. 

Hydraulic cement is totally waterproof and sets up immediately. You can even use it to seal leaks underwater without first removing the water from the pond. It is finer than any mortar as it has no sand. Using a strainer and alternating misting with a spray bottle, I can sift it on to any desired thickness without even getting my hands dirty. It gets strong at ~1/4" thick but serves as a coating in any thickness. 

You say "It gets strong at ~1/4" thick". How strong?

I have always wanted a large rock in my yard showing a bias relief of a Steam Loco coming out of a tunnel on one side and a Caboose in the tunnel on the opposite side. This might be a way to get such a "rock" without massive equipment to drag a real one into position after carving. Do you have any idea how thick it would have to be to withstand a person sitting or standing on it? Say a "rock" about 2-ft deep, 3-ft wide and 2-ft tall...


Stong enough that you can't just use your hand to break off a piece. Maybe about like cement backer board. I've never had cause to test the strength. On a big project, you may find cost prohibitive.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 May 2011 05:16 PM 
Uhh... remember the archives are gone... kaput??? 

Greg 

The explanation above should get you through.

Experimentation has its own rewards. For example, if you complete the work, dampen it and do a sprinkle without resaturating, then wet it later, you retain a rough texture like a lava-type rock. If you saturate the cement, the texture smooths out like granite.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Great job! It looks very realistic, just like a real rock! 
Thanks for sharing the technique.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 28 May 2011 05:34 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 May 2011 05:16 PM 
Uhh... remember the archives are gone... kaput??? 

Greg 

The explanation above should get you through.

Experimentation has its own rewards. For example, if you complete the work, dampen it and do a sprinkle without resaturating, then wet it later, you retain a rough texture like a lava-type rock. If you saturate the cement, the texture smooths out like granite.

I noticed that there is a notice on the archives page:

NOTICE!!! *The archived forums are no longer available. Due to several security holes in the software used, it became necessary to pull them down. If there is a specific thread that you are looking for, you can contact the webmaster and I'll try to locate the information you are after. *

So, I just emailed the webmaster using the form if he can get the original article/post out of the dust... Let's hope it's possible.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What happens to the paper towel? Doesn't it eventually dissolve Does that change the integrity of the rock? 

JJ


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I wouldn't think so. Paper towels don't have much in the way of integrity. My guess is that they are there just to form a base for the "wet" concrete. Once dry, the concrete would retain it's integrity.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 29 May 2011 09:01 AM 
I wouldn't think so. Paper towels don't have much in the way of integrity. My guess is that they are there just to form a base for the "wet" concrete. Once dry, the concrete would retain it's integrity.


Yes, the towels are just there to hold the cement in place for the few moments that it takes to set up.

It only needs to be one paper towel thick. Spray mist the towels on the mesh before you start to sift and the cement starts hardening as soon as it settles on the surface presenting an impervious layer for the cement to come. Once dry, the cement has its own integrity, but the wire armature serves like mesh in a concrete pour and should make things even stronger now that the inside is done and the mesh is actually enclosed within the cement mixture, for the most part.

This was my first attempt at a rock using the wire cloth/paper towel, and I'm very satisfied, especially now that the inside is done.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

This shows the contrast in texture associated with a fairly smooth "wet saturation" and a rough "dry sprinkle."


For the "dry sprinkle" the "rock" is misted and the cement simply sprinkled over it with the strainer with no further wetting. This is just after the sprinkle and the color will change a bit as it cures over the next couple days.
Semi-smooth:

Rough:



You can turn these things out fast. The next one is already underway. This one represents a stone cut. I first cut the "face" out of the wire cloth then attached and shaped the backing:


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

As I noted, you can crank these out fairly quickly. This one will harden so I can turn it onto the face and finish the back, then blend it all together in a day.


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Wow, that really turned out great. I wish I wouldn't have spent the whole weekend rock hunting. This looks so much easier!!!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

R&D continues


I've found that rather than use paper towels, it is far easier to use masking tape to cover the armature. It can be wrapped around the bottom, more readily pushed into the crevases, and STAYS THERE, it is easier to maintain one layer and the layers stick together (a weak spot with the towels until things harden), and is just easier to work with as it allows you to just put your hand into the work and rotate, sprinkle and spray so you can do the entire piece at one time. This also keeps the piece lighter and this one won't even need to have its inside done.

I turned this one out in under 2 hours. The paint matches my rocks when it fades a bit. I didn't even wait for the Quickcrete to cure and am interesested to see the end effect once it does.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

OK, a few Before and After shots and I won't bore you with this anymore. The two on the patio will receive final color in a couple days when the cement cures to its final color so I can see what I have to work with.
Before:

After:

Before:

After:

Before:

After:


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd it looks like you have opened up something here. I have used the burlap soaked in cement method for my mountains and tunnels but this looks easier and quicker and more fun. Look out here come the rocks.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you tried using cement coloring or cement acid for color


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

No, I just paint them afterwards. Actually, when they attain their natural finish, they don't look all that different than the other rocks, none of which really match each other. This has dried for a few days, and now doesn't look that different than the nearby rock in the "After" shot. The pic makes it look a little more tan than it really is. I may not color it at all.


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Really looks great! 

Best, 
TJ


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am building as 7 ft tall fake rock wall. I was thinking of how to make textre on such a large wall. By textrue I mean bulges and riffs in the wall. I knew they can be shaped by molding mesh.

This is what inspired me to attempt this. it is a picture of a road in Bolivia. Only I am going to run trains throgh it.












If you use mesh to make them you have a lot of voids to fill with stucco

Then I remebered this thread and Paper towls.

Fill the inside of the mesh with papter to keep the stucco from being pushed thorugh the mesh.

So now, becasue of this thread, I will fill my voids under the mesh with the bags the stucco comes in.

And now like Moma siad in the movie " I remember Moma" " Yaa We don't have to go to the dump." 

JJ


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