# Hobby King vs. Specktrum 2.4 gHz



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I figured I'd post this under Live Steam, since most who would be able to best answer this have asbestos fingers, and may not frequent the battery/RC forums...

My wife asked what I want for Christmas, so near the top of my list is R/C for my EBT mike (and my 3 other R/C'd live steamers that could benefit from 2.4 gHz technology.) So, here's the debate...

I can get a Spektrum 5-channel system for around $100 from the local shops, which would easily do the mike, but additional receivers--that I can tell--are around $50 a piece. So to do all 4 locos, I'm looking at $250.

The Hobby King stuff is $25 for a transmitter/receiver pair, and around $10 for each additional receiver. On the surface, that sounds like the no-brainer way to go, but I've naturally got reservations... First, there's the supposed "need" for a PC interface to do any kind of programming such as servo reversing and the like. My PC died, and we've yet to replace it, and I'd really like something that I don't have to link to a computer just to use. Second, it seems the HK receivers are specific to a single model of radio--I can't just buy any receiver and run it with any radio. Finding transmitter that has extra receivers "in stock" at the moment appears problematic, and I don' t know if this is just because it's 2 weeks from Christmas or if it's always going to be like this. I could also just buy Tx/Rx pairs for each of my locos and still come out well ahead compared to the Spektrum stuff... I'm not adverse to that.


So, is the HK stuff compared to the Spektrum stuff very much a "you get what you pay for" thing? And what's the real story on the Spektrum receivers? Are they more universal, and can they be had for less than $50 each? 


I must admit, I'm having fun running my mike manually on the track at the Colo. RR museum, but when I'm switching out a cut of 8 cars and have to be at the loco to run it, I'm quickly realizing why railroads had brakemen. That, and I'd like to be able to run it on the home rails. So some form of R/C has to be done...


Later,

K


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Kevin, 
Here is my view on Hobby King 2.4gHz purchases. I DO have HK Orange receivers...... in my trains. I won't use them in my planes or boats. I have seen a couple of crashes this past year at the fly field of guys using the Orange receiver (one with the optional remote receiver hooked up). Trains don't fly, and you don't usually run them 1000 feet away at times like when flying. My boats speak for themselves. I'm not a good swimmer and don't like cold water! The planes and boats only get Spektrum receivers, but once again you need to be knowledgeable on what you are buying. I use a DX6i transmitter that is "X" compatible. You can bind DSM2 receivers to it with no problem, but there are receivers out there (AR500 / AR600 and more) that have had problems of losing it's bind/signal at times. For a train this may not be a problem if you set your failsafe correctly. For a airplane, this is a HUGE problem (don't ask me how I know). 
Bottom line is you should be okay with the orange receive from HK in trains. The problem I see is that the transmitter you might be talking about (DX5E ??) is only a one memory transmitter. If you are going to have multiple trains set up for 2.4, then I might suggest spending the extra monies on a DX6i which will give you 10 memorys. The DSMX addition also stops you from selecting the wrong receiver by accident. Once bound, a selected model will only bind with that one receiver. No others. Very helpful. 
Just my view, and of course I do not have any connections with either Hobby King, or Horizon Hobbies. These are strictly my views.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I have many customers that use Hobby King, but I still prefer the Spektrum Dx5E. For live steam, you probably want a DX6i so you can store multiple loco settings in it. I sell DSM2 compatible receivers that will work with any Spektrum Tx. They are $15 each. DSM2 Receivers@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Okay, what's the difference between "mode 1" and "mode 2?" (Besides $10) 

Also, with the Dx5e, would I have to bind the transmitter to each receiver every time I changed locos, or can I bind them all at once and never worry about it again? (Obviously I wouldn't be controlling two steamers at the same time...)


Later, 

K


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Mode # 1 has the ratchet throttle stick on the right. Mode # 2 is on the left. 

You can bind as many RX's (locos) to one TX as you wish.
With the DX6i you simply simply turn off the loco you don't want to run and turn on the loco you do want to run. Once bound they stay bound. Same with the stick settings.
For battery R/C use it is possible to MU speed matched locos.
Like wise it is possible to assign speed matched locos to a different (same brand) TX.

I have been selling and using both brands here in Australia for some time. 
Yes the basic HK system does require plugging into a PC to set the basic parameters. They work just fine. There is a newer basic 6 ch version that has the controls built into the TX. Only problem is so far there are no extra RX's available for it. Be advised V1 and v2 systems are not compatible. Neither are the different HK RX's compatible with different HK TX's. 
One other thing. The HK TX's still require 8 AA cells. Spektrum only 4 AA cells. 
Nowadays I understand pretty well all the Spektrum DSM2 RX's will work with all the DSM2 TX's. Sure their RX's are expensive but there are some very low cost clones available that work just fine for our purposes. If you have multiple live steam locos use the DX6i for the model memory feature. The DX5e is OK for battery R/C. 
Until recently I had settled on the Planet Twister 2.4 Ghz system. Medium price, 4 x AA cells for the TX, good range and a variety of different RX's which are all compatible. 
Now my supplier has announced the Planet range is out of production. Drat!!! 

Go with the Spektrum.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Do not be so quick to say you would obviously not be running two locos at once...why not? that is the perfect way to double head. Does it work though with programmable transmitters? can you run two "programs" at once?

I have the basic 5 channel Spektrum and two receivers. I have used it to Double head my locos quite successfully. it is not programmable so I have to live with the fact that sometimes the throttle on one engine opens before the other...that's life! I set the servo linkage to get the best performance from each...and hopefully similar and with the stick motion the same.




Here is a video of my double headed radio controlled run.


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, 

You and I have run at the Museum together and I use the Spektrum systems. Having the memory feature and servo reversal is a big plus. I have 4 Accucraft and 2 Roundhouse models fittted with R/C. Not one of them share the same settings for control conditions when running. Each model is named in the Transmitter and settings for running iare loaded into memory for that particular model. Some have reversed control for the throttle and forward / reverse settings. Most have limits on servo travel to prevent things binding at the limit of travel . I couldn't run without these features on the transmitter. 

Charles M SA # 74


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks guys. You've made my choice simple. Now to find the best price, because naturally it's the most expensive option... (Like I should complain--it's still about half the price of the 4-channel radios I used to run with...) 

Charles, I'll probably pick your brain once I get things set up as to programming multiple locos. But that's a project for warmer weather. (Just spent the evening freezing my knees at the Wildlife Experience with the kiddos...) 


Later, 

K


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric Nice video. Well done so I bookmarked it. 

Kevin Cold weather? Aren't you running live steam? Can't you like hold your fingers over the smokestack to stay warm or something? (OK so maybe I'm still a smart ass in spite of my advancing years.) 

Terl


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

With the DX6i you simply simply turn off the loco you don't want to run and turn on the loco you do want to run 
Kevin, 
While Tony is correct, this applies more to the Dx5e than the DX6i. As Charles M pointed out, with 10 'memories' in the Dx6i, you can name each one and set up a custom parameter set for each. (My Dx6i has "FWRR", C-19" and "EBT12" stored in it already.)









There was also a thread about the Dx5e recently, where I mentioned that you can 'bind' all the locos to the same Dx5e and just turn one 'on' at once. You may have to adjust parameters (e.g. limits, centering) but it works. (My Dx5e is in FL with the FWRR loco.) 

Finally, there were a couple of threads in the RC forum about cheap, Spektrum-compatible receivers. My C-19 has been running for a while now with the 'orange' receiver. The thread was *Spektrum DSM2 Compatible Receivers* _ 
{Rant}
If that doesn't work, copy this to your browser and put the dot back in. I give up trying to edit it.
www dot mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/35/aft/117335/afv/topic/Default.aspx

[I hate this forum s/w. Now it's made my dummy link into a real link!!!
If you put the link in and don't edit the post, it works (under some conditions.) Edit the post and it all gets screwed up. This is the 3rd edit to make the link work. Think I'll take my bat and ball and go play somewhere else... You HTML fans check this out: {a href="http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/afv/post/action/re/aff/11/aft/122928/postid/242499/" target="blank" 117335 Default.aspx?? topic afv aft 35 aff 56 tabid Forums Community www.mylargescale.com http:>*Spektrum DSM2 Compatible Receivers*{/a> { replaces the original open arrowhead. ] 
{End of Rant}_

If you think you'll be adding more live steamers, I'd bite the bulet and get the Dx6i.

P.P.S. I promised Dave Cole (Mr Steam in the Garden mag,) that I'd write up the EBT #12 r/c process, as I took lots of pics. I think he's going to publish it in the next issue.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, I too asked the same question recently and settled on the DX6i. I did order some off brand recievers though. Nothing is set up yet as my workspace is not workable currently. That's a Christmas break project. All the same guys answering the same questions that I had a few months ago pretty much the same way. I remember my R/C car & boat days, and in radios you definitely got what you paid for. Aristocraft radios were ok for bashing about in the back yard but for racing you had to have Futaba or Airtronics or even JR. they were priced appropriately too... some compromised with lower end models too. Like Futaba offering a basic starter 2 channel then pregressing up to full blown computerized 3 channel models. 

Chas


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Well, Santa was very good to me, and delivered a DX6i and 4 receivers (the $15 ones Del sells). And like my two kids, I couldn't get playing with my new toy fast enough. (Unlike them, I did have to wait until after returning from dinner with the in-laws.) I switched out the receivers in my two Roundhouses and my Accucraft Ruby, and all have been dutifully programmed, needing only to be steamed to tweak the throttle and reverse settings. But installing, programming, and switching from loco to loco seems to be pretty simple. 

Now, a question... 

Seeing as how I've got 6 channels to play with, I want to have a bit of "fun" with my EBT mikado. I'm planning for three of the four stick channels taken up with throttle, direction, and water pump. The fourth I'd like to keep open for future use, perhaps a 2-chime harmonic whistle sometime down the road. 

So, channel 5 is controlled via the "gear" switch on the side, which is either up or down. I'd like to use that for the headlight. Is there a servo interface strictly for turning lights on and off? (It'd be an LED, so current draw would be minimal.) Sure I could easily do it with mechanical wipers, but I'd prefer a solid state switch if possible. 

Also, how do you control channel 6, and is it similarly on/off like channel 5? 

Later, 

K


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Here is just what you need Kevin .... RC Trigger Board. You can do all kinds of things with it, including lamps or LEDs.

I think the "Flap" switch on the DX6i is channel 6; Aux 1 on your receivers.

Note: Sorry for all the extra junk in my posts. Apparently the Google Chrome browser and MLS don't play well together.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Boy, Chrome really messes up links, too. I couldn't even edit the post to correct it... 

Direct link to Del's board  here. 

That would certainly work, but it sounds a bit overkill for my purposes. I don't need to program anything, just turn a light on and off. I found this, which looks to do what I'd need it to do. Costs more to ship the darned thing, so perhaps I might order some for all my steamers... 

I'm thinking, though, that Del's board would work well for triggering a bell sound from a sound system (sacrilege, I know), while also triggering a micro gearhead motor to animate the bell. Now, all I need is an MP3 recording of a bell... 

No, I'm not having any fun. None at all. 

Later, 

K


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

I've used the similar R/C-MOSFET from Pololu for a lot of turnout and lighting control relays. It's just a step up price from what you are looking at for the same shipping cost but you never know when you could use the additional *15A* current handling for additional relays. It happens, as soon as you ring the first bell, you immediately will want to do more than that.

Cheers,
Victor


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, 

Try this link : http://www.dimensionengineering.com/PicoSwitch.htm 

Neat little switch that plugs right into the receiver board and can control lighting using the gear switch . I plan on using these to add directional lighting to my Accucraft 2 Cylinder Shay. You only need to " steal " a little power from the receiver and you can use this to power LED headlights . You need ( + - ) on one output and a dropping resistor and you are in business. I use mine as a power on indicator on the Shay right now. If the headlight is on, the receiver is on ! Easy as pie. 

Charles M SA # 74


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Charles, could you just use a "Y" and run the output of whatever channel you're using for the Johnson bar to also control the lights? You could split things three ways--one output to the servo, one output to the forward light, and one output to the rear light. When the Johnson bar is in "forward," the forward light control box also engages. When in reverse, the back light control box engages. What you really need is a DPDT relay which would then allow you to control both lights from one circuit. You could probably mix everything together, too, but then you're tying up additional channels that are really just keying off of the Johnson bar. 

Hmm, I do need a proper back-up light on the mikado... 

Later, 

K


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin , If the light is to be direction controlled by the Johnson Bar, might make a bracket that would fit next to the frame and mount 2 roller micro-switches on it . When running the switch would be closed by the Johnson Bar pressing on the roller of the switch making the circuit. As you change direction it would switch automatically. On the Shay , I had thought I would use the gear switch to turn the light off and on. 


Try this website for a DPDT servo switch. http://www.dimensionengineering.com/DoubleSwitch.htm

This wires right into the receiver again and shows a diagram for your reversing lights on the page !! Could also be used for a servo controller for an electric water feed pump too. 


Charles M SA # 74


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Does that make me a techno-dinosaur ? 
Er, it's almost 2012 and we're playing with steam engines. I think that's a title that fits us all. 

I'm thinking of using one device tied to channel 5 to control power to the lights, both front and rear. That way you can turn the lights on and off at will. Then take the wires going to the back-up light through another switch that's controlled by the position of the Johnson bar, either via a contact switch on the bar itself or via another solid state switch that's split off the receiver output for the Johnson bar. That would give you a directional back-up light when you've got the lights turned on, but it would stay off when you have the lights turned off. The headlight would not be directional; it would be on all the time so long as you have the lights turned on. The Pololu swith essentially passes through the 5 volts coming from the receiver, so you could just take that output to the input of the second Pololu switch. 

Now, how do you add firebox flicker? 

(Ducking for cover...) 

Later, 

K


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

It seems to me you are looking for a cheap, but complicated solution to a very simple problem. Just what is your goal with this?

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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, 

You need some 5 MM or 10 MM red and yellow LED's and a flicker circuit ! Would be interesting to see a firebox glow as EBT # 12 rolled by on the Steam Track. It would certainly capture peoples attention. I say go for it . : ) 

At the last Christmas train at the loop someone suggested that we automate the figures on the trains. A waving engineer from the cab or brakeman on the caboose HMMMMMM ! Steam powered gears are beginning to whir in my head , not always a good thing ! 

Charles M SA # 74


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

@ Charles There was an article in Model Railoader umpteen years ago where a guy animated the head of an engineer in an O scale loco. When the loco went in reverse, the engineer's head turned to the back. I can't help but to think you could very easily work some kind of linkage off the Johnson bar to do that in 1:20.3. Just gotta get an engineer in the right pose. Oh, R i i i i i i i i chaaaarrrrrddddd........ 

@ Del I want to be able to turn the lights on and off at will using channel 5 on the receiver (the gear toggle). With that switched turned on, I then want to use the various other channels to actually control which specific lights are illuminated. Think of channel 5 as a circuit breaker, then the other channels as individual light switches. I'm open for additional ideas, but yes--cost is a factor. (Ironic, I know, given the cost of the loco.) If I can do what I need with a small handful of $5 circuit boards, I don't see that as a particularly complicated solution. 

Later, 

K


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

It is quite obvious that you must radio control the hand of the engineer so he can flip the switches in the cab! Shouldn't be all that hard. Nothing less would look real! Toot Toot Toot!!!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I got the two Pololu boards installed today, and after finally figuring out how to properly wire them (there's ZERO documentation), I was able to get things--sort-of--working. 

They don't appear to take kindly to being daisy-chained the way I had hoped to. There's a weird backfeed thing going on to where once you turn on the first board, you can't turn it back off. (Well, the LED on the _board_ says it's off, but the light stays on.) I've got a post on the Pololu board to that end, and hopefully one of their gurus can shed some light (or darkness) on the issue. For now, I've got the front headlight tied to the channel 5 switch, so I can turn it on and off at will, and then the back-up light is tied to the position of the Johnson bar. When it's in reverse, the back-up light is on. 

Later, 

K


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