# Talk of the Bednarik review in STIG



## joe779 (Dec 28, 2008)

Hello all, 

apparently the posts were deleted and the reason in not right. Here is the email I got about the 2 posts.

Joe,

While I can understand where you're coming from on this issue, such comments belong in email, not on the public forums. Posting them publicly will only result in a very public flame war, and that isn't something we need. Besides we don't need another "Accucraft vs. Aster" fiasco... there have been plenty of those already.

 Your post and your duplicating cab forward thread have therefore been deleted.


Best Regards, 
Dwight Ennis 
MLS Moderator








_If they can pubically post the article we should be allowed to pubically discuss this article. It is not another Aster vs Accucraft, it was a direct hit to Accucraft and a direct ad for their services in which seems to be shoddy at best. They dont even have the knowhow to fit it themself they had to have someone else fix their Cabfoward for them, and now are advertising their business in a so called "review" that was published in StiG. _

_As for deleting the post there was nothing that was bad mouthed it was factual and to the point._

_Jfrank posted on my reply that due to them, the last run of 40 cabfowards were cancelled. I wonder if Accucraft will sue them for the business of the 280,000.00 worth of sales. 7,000 x 40 locos. _


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Pandora, 

Funny that was published and that I was going to do a review on the 4-4-0 but was told that the draft needed to be approved by Accucraft first. Apparently this was not the case here as they would of had some input to it. 

It really should of been a article of how Gordon made the modifications and not comparing it to a 20,000 Aster. Don't you always get what you pay for?? 

I voiced my opinion about the article to Ryan and to Ron. Only time will tell what happens in the future.


----------



## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

Well I wonder how long Dwight Ennis will allow this thread to run. I notice he had no problem with people discussing the Scam artist in our midst . 
It seems that it is Accrucraft he gets real touchy about. 

There is a lot of interesting and informative information posted on this web site but it appears there could be more. 

I also wonder how many more postings that could be of interest have been deleted.


----------



## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

lIt is not clear to me who the "them" is that are refered to in this: _Jfrank posted on my reply that due to them, the last run of 40 cabfowards were cancelled. I wonder if Accucraft will sue them for the business of the 280,000.00 worth of sales. 7,000 x 40 locos. _ 
Can you clairify?


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I had assumed that he along with others including myself have heard that Accucraft cancelled the 2nd batch due to the article in StiG. Of course with the current economic conditions it could be only part of the reason. But we will probally never know as Accucraft will not announce it, just as they didnt announce the build of the 2nd run on their website but through dealers. 

From what I heard from another on here, the post that was deleted was very well written and based on actual facts not just a firestorm... 

Dwight do we get to see this post? There has been many others that were never deleted why this one? Why now? Whats the point of a public forum thats censored? Should we all go over to Largescalecentral where there is no censorship? They do not have a live steam forum though. Which is why I joined this group many years ago.


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By joe779 on 12/29/2008 5:29 AM
Hello all, 

apparently the posts were deleted and the reason in not right. Here is the email I got about the 2 posts.

Joe,

While I can understand where you're coming from on this issue, such comments belong in email, not on the public forums. Posting them publicly will only result in a very public flame war, and that isn't something we need. Besides we don't need another "Accucraft vs. Aster" fiasco... there have been plenty of those already.

Your post and your duplicating cab forward thread have therefore been deleted.


Best Regards, 
Dwight Ennis 
MLS Moderator








_If they can pubically post the article we should be allowed to pubically discuss this article. It is not another Aster vs Accucraft, it was a direct hit to Accucraft and a direct ad for their services in which seems to be shoddy at best. They dont even have the knowhow to fit it themself they had to have someone else fix their Cabfoward for them, and now are advertising their business in a so called "review" that was published in StiG. _

_As for deleting the post there was nothing that was bad mouthed it was factual and to the point._

_Jfrank posted on my reply that due to them, the last run of 40 cabfowards were cancelled. I wonder if Accucraft will sue them for the business of the 280,000.00 worth of sales. 7,000 x 40 locos. _




Well Joe he sent me the same exact message. Personally, I was not aware that the Bednarik's article had caused the cancellation until later when I heard it from a reliable source. I never heard it mentioned on MLS and I wonder why. When I first saw the article in SIG I was rather suprised that Ron Brown would publish such a biased and misleading review....and I still am. Someone pointed out to me that the last SIG did not have any 'letters to the editor' in it. I wonder why? Dwight certainly has the right to delete contravesrial posts. But on the other hand this information is just factual, not flame throwing and a lot of us pay our dues each year to keep this site going. As you point out....glad I did not have anything to do with costing Accucraft almost $300,000 and also denying many of us the pleasure of owning such a fine locomotive.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

I would not accuse Dwight of 'defending' Accucraft if he delete that..... if anything, it seems like the opposite.

I am curious about what the post said of course, but not if Aster vrs. Accucraft gets beaten to death for the 50th time.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

First off, I am on Pacific time and just got up, and what do I see? This, and after I deleted the original after just happening to wake up at 2AM. They (the original two posts) were far more accusatory and personal in tone and wording, and not a discussion of "the article." That would inevitably have lead to a similar angry response (as may this thread), and a topic that would have been locked/deleted anyway. 

Second, and as I indicated in my PMs, such personal accusations belong in email, not on the public forums. 

Third (and this is for you Dave Young), it had nothing to do with Accucraft being the subject of the post. 

Fourth, we don't need another Accucraft vs. Aster debate. We've already had several of those, and so far as I know, no one had had their mind changed by them. 

Fifth, our friend Joe779 has never made any posts whatsoever until these two which I deleted, and an email I sent him came back from AOL stating he'd never activated that email account, and my email was undeliverable. There is very little info in the profile. While it may be coincidence, I can't help being suspicious as to motives. 

Sixth, when I decide that something needs deleting for the good of the overall community, this is not an invitation to repost it after I've gone back to bed. 

Seventh... If they can publicly post the article we should be allowed to publicly discuss this article.
The article wasn't "publicly posted" on MLS. Perhaps you should voice your disapproval in a letter to SitG where it was "publicly posted." 

Eighth... I also wonder how many more postings that could be of interest have been deleted.
Very damn few. 

Ninth... Whats the point of a public forum thats censored? 
This is a privately owned and privately financed web site. All financial contributions via 1st Class Memberships are voluntary, not mandatory. I don't own this web site, I don't get paid or make any money watsoever from it, nor do I make the rules. I and others have been entrusted with the usually thankless task of enforcing the rules laid down by the owner. The first and most important rule is "Courtesy to other members at all times." The deleted posts were not courteous, and were more than a statement of "mere fact." Enforcement of all rules here is not "censorship" despite the occasional cries of same from a few. The rules are publicly posted, and each and every member has to agree to them before they can sign up and post here. 

Lastly... apparently the posts were deleted and the reason in not right. Here is the email I got about the 2 posts.
When the site owner asks you to moderate the forums, then you get to decide what's right with the overall good of the forums in mind and not viewed from the confines of an agenda.

If you guys wish to discuss the contents of the article, do so. However (and fair warning), the instant it starts turning personal, it stops. If you wish to call that "censorshp" that's your perrogative.


----------



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, I'm with you - this childish nonsense has no place on this forum. I read some of the vicious and nasty stuff I see on unmoderated forums and I weep for the future of humanity! Thank you for talking on the thankless task of moderating this forum and keeping it sane and useful.

I don't even think the facts are straight - there is a world of difference between cancelling a batch of locomotives versus not placing an order for a second batch because there was insufficient demand and the minimum batch size was 40. I know when I enquired about a Cab Forward after the original batch sold out, I was told the that they would consider a second batch only if there was sufficient demand.

And as the snow has finally cleared and I might make a quiet point to myself by running my Accucraft 50/50 GS4 (modified by Charles and Ryan) followed by my Aster Berkshire and wonder at the simple pleasure of this hobby. Now if I had a dynamometer car I could work out which pulls best as they will both pull all the rolling stock I have  

Robert


----------



## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

let's get a good one going...

which is the best pickup truck? Ford, Dodge, GMC or Chevrolet???


----------



## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bill4373 on 12/29/2008 11:26 AM
let's get a good one going...

which is the best pickup truck?  Ford, Dodge, GMC or Chevrolet???



Toyota


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bill4373 on 12/29/2008 11:26 AM
let's get a good one going...

which is the best pickup truck? Ford, Dodge, GMC or Chevrolet???




Are the Chinese making one yet?


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Chinese are getting ready to crank up car production in Mexico. I'll stick with GM Later RJD


----------



## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

John, I have some Chinese baby formula for you... Oh by the way they make cars, you should buy one. I bet they cost less then a Cab Forward....... hehe,


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 12/29/2008 2:02 PM
Chinese are getting ready to crank up car production in Mexico. I'll stick with GM Later RJD


I left GM years ago for this reason.....they never fix anything. Way back in the 1980.s they decided to go with that overdrive transmission in their pick up trucks that was not strong enough. Result, constant transmission failures costing millions. I personally had them fail in all three trucks I bought from 198- to the 1990's. GM trucks come from the factory with the front wheels out of alignment just as normal practice. From my Dad's trucks to all of mine they ate up the first set of tires. My last truck, a GMC Z71 went through three radiators because they had switched to plastic and they cracked. It also lost a transmission and the AC compressor....all under the extended warranty. One truck went through three transmissions all at GM's expense. My last car was a Nissan Pathfinder which I put 150,000 miles on with no problems whatsoever and I never had to have the front end aligned. I now drive an Xterra. No wonder GM is broke. The best thing we can do is let them fail and reorganize. They are just a mess.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a Silverado now but would not rebuy...I dont even think I'd get another truck, nothing out there that I really like or know is well built. Had an S-10 that ate up the front tires in 10,000 miles.


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 12/29/2008 4:35 PM
John, I have some Chinese baby formula for you... Oh by the way they make cars, you should buy one. I bet they cost less then a Cab Forward....... hehe, 


Well Jeff, we made fun of the Japanese when they first starting making cars. Then we made fun of the Koreans when they started to make cars. The Japs are second to none in quality and the Koreans are catching up fast. We can laugh at the Chinese now if we want, but when they start to import cars there will be no so called domestic car manufacturers left period. And I remind you that no one makes gauge one live steam models in this country either or apparently anything else as we are totally broke as a country with 10 trillion in debt(that is a 10 followed by 12 zeros). By the way, I just got back from a trip to Dresden Germany and guess what I saw running around on the streets.........chevy's and fords. GM and Ford are no more a 'domestic manufacturer' and any other company. This has strayed far off topic from the Bednariks little faux pas but apparently that was the goal....to take the heat off them and cover it all up. See you all at Diamondhead where we can discuss fixing up the world over a couple of beers.


----------



## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Should we all go over to Largescalecentral where there is no censorship? They do not have a live steam forum though. Which is why I joined this group many years ago.

Jay, 
Largescalecentral does have a Steam Forum...not very active however. 
N


----------



## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

To stray a bit back on topic, 
I have had the pleasure of reviewing two Accucraft locomotives for Steam In the Garden, the C-16 in Issue #62 and the AML 0-6-0 switcher which will appear in the next issue. I also reviewed the Roundhouse Darjeeling loco some issues back. As far as I know none of my writing was ever required to be reviewed by the manufacturer. While writing the R-house review I had some concerns so I contacted the manufacturer and included some of their reply in my article. 
Also, I own a 1996 Chev Suburban with 103K miles most of them towing a 7K pound 28' long travel trailer with no problems whatsoever. 
Have fun, 
Tom


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I just went and read the review.. 
honestly I just skimmed it the first time, because its not a loco I would ever be interested in.. 
but this time I read the whole thing straight through.. 
My review of the review: 
The Bednariks were just being honest..nothing wrong with that. 
it wasnt a "slam" against accucraft..sure it was a bit more harsh than most reviews.. 
but that is only because the locomotive deserved the harshness! 

Do we want honest reviews or not? 
I recall a bunch of complaints awhile back when some felt a review was far too lenient, 
and glossed over major problems..so which way do you want it?  

personally I would much rather have honest reviews..if there are problems, we should hear about it! 
how many people would complain if the review was all sweetness and light, then people bought the loco and discovered 
all these problems that were never mentioned in the review? there would be outrage.. 
you cant have it both ways.. 

If accucrat loses money because of this review..the only one to blame is accucraft.. 

and the comparisons to Aster are ridiculous and irrelevant.. 
(IMO the review could have done with a lot less comparisions to Aster) 
you cant pay "one third to one half" the price of an aster then complain its not an aster.. 
granted, even for the "low" price of this cab forward, which is still very substantial (and totally out of my price range!  
one should expect a very well built machine..so IMO, the "complaints" in the review are all totally justified.. 

I think (my opinion) that accucraft maybe got in over their heads with this one.. 
they should concentrate more on the Rubys and the Moguls..simple machines at a reasonable price.. 
perhaps its simply not possible to build and sell a quality live steam loco as complicated as the Cab Forward for a "mere" $6,000.. 
you maybe have to cut too many corners to bring the engine in at that price.. 
if you want "Aster Allegany Quality" you have to be prepared to pay $20,000 to get it!  

and I totally dont understand: 

and a direct ad for their services in which seems to be shoddy at best. They dont even have the knowhow to fit it themself they had to have someone else fix their Cab foward for them, and now are advertising their business in a so called "review" that was published in StiG.


who's business? 
what business? 
I saw nothing about anyone's business in the review.. 

Scot


----------



## Walt_Linn (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Dwight, 

I'm sure we all think it and this seems like a good time to say it... 
Thanks for volunteering to moderate us. 
You're a class act.


----------



## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

The thing that bothers me most about this whole affair is Jason's disclosure that he was told that any article he wrote about the Accucraft 4-4-0 had to be approved by Accucraft. I have written several articles about Aster products for SiTG and there was never any requirement that Aster pre-approve my articles. I myself shared my drafts with the US Aster importer to insure that I had not made or spread inaccurate information, but he never attempted to control what I said. Some time ago I also wrote an article on the Accucraft C-16 Bumblebee for another publication -- now gone -- and there was no mention of any prior review requirement by Accucraft, but maybe those were different days. 

I would hate to think that Accucraft would be acting as a censor on reviews of its products. If true, its a sad day for our hobby. The people with the power to control advertising dollars in publications sometimes try to restrict the flow of useful information to us customers. But it usually backfires over time as people get wise to their actions. This forum and others covered the problems and fixes for the Accucraft alcohol version of the GS-4, and I think this information was generally useful -- even though the discussion may not have been helpful to Accucraft's sales. But possibly this discussion led to a greater willingness of Accucraft to consider the Dick Abbott boiler solution for the newly arrived Royal Hudson. I sincerely hope that moderated forums like this one will have the good sense to keep the useful and accurate information flowing so that we can make informed purchases and avoid poorly made products. But when we have that power, we users and posters must remember to deal only with facts in a respectful and mature manner. 

Happy New Year and keep the facts coming........... 

Ross Schlabach


----------



## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

I too went back and read the review very closely. The first time I read it I skimmed it quicky as it is not a loco I'd be interested in either as a prototype or as regards the cost. My impression is a well written review, warts and all. They brought out the good and bad points as an honest review should do.

As for the review being responsible for the second run being droppoed, I doubt that. These locos are enough of an investment for Accucraft that they would want to be reasonably assured that there would not be units sitting in their warehouse. 

I'm not going to bring up the Aster vs Accucraft debate again. They are two different beasts at two different price points. I believe that any investment in an Accucraft loco should be viewed as buying a starting point for tinkering and adjusting. Not a shot, just how I see it. And yes, I do and have, owned Accucraft locomotives and for the money I have been, in general, well pleased.

Just my two cents.

Mike McCormack
Hudson, Massachusetts


----------



## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

May I just add to Ross Schlabach's remarks that here in the UK we do not try to censor what any kit reviewer may say in the various Magazines or in online reviews about their experiences building Aster kits or running our products.

If they find a problem we want to hear about it and alert our valued customers. Reviewers will often submit a draft for correction of any detail but changing their findings is absolutely not going to happen. We don’t pay for reviews either. If someone wants to review our products then we are happy. If they report favorably then that’s nice too.

We have seen another maker submit glowing reviews to various publications via a couple of sources, only to find that when their product hit the streets that buyers get a different experience altogether.

Happy New Year and great steaming in 2009!


Andrew


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

The thing that bothers me most about this whole affair is Jason's disclosure that he was told that any article he wrote about the Accucraft 4-4-0 had to be approved by Accucraft.
In the interests of fairness to all concerned, and to correct any potential misinterpretations, I talked to one of the powers that be at Accucraft this morning (and I'm not referring to Cliff here). Accucraft management has never heard of such an agreement to pre-approve reviews with SitG or any other publication or person. Wherever this may be coming from, it certainly isn't from Accucraft as, from their end at least, no such deal exists or has ever existed. 

I know a few out there consider me an Accucraft Apologist... so be it, and they can take this however they wish, but that's the skinny straight from Accucraft management. I just don't like to see them or anyone else on the receiving end of a bad rap.

Disclaimer: I have no business interests in Accucraft, financial or otherwise. I receive no compensation from them in any form, financial or otherwise. I am at most a satisfied customer who happens to live fairly close to them.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe779, John and Jay: 
Seems each of you have an opinion about the article but lack the skills, knowledge or operational experience to have written it. I know that neither John nor Jay own an AC-12, therefore could not have spent the several hundred hours we (consisting of Gordon, Ryan, Jeff and I) have in refining the needed areas of improvement. Joe779, can you clarify your experience and expertise leading to your comments on this particular subject? 

Jay:
The article was sent for press well before Gordon had completed the work and sent forth his paperwork. We have plans to do a second article on MLS as we did with the GS4 with all the “fixin’s” by Gordon, Ryan, and Jeff. 

Joe779, Jay, John:
There was an advance given to Accucraft regards the findings by us and Gordon on related problems. I spoke to Ada at ECLSTS about our concerns. It is my best knowledge that these were to be addressed n the second production, still hearsay at the time. I doubt that this article would have prevented Accucraft from going ahead with another 50-60 units or making the corrections prior to the release of another run (my words do not move the market, potential buyers or related companies). Accucraft could have easily produced 50 more units between March 2008 (when the conversation with Ada took place) and the SitG article release during the fall of 2008. In fact I know that they would have had a viable market given that I sold 2 Cab Forward’s for another MLS member through ebay during that time period (one going to Japan!). Where is the logic in that I am undermining Accucraft yet promoting their product at the same time? 

As for this reputable and reliable source, if someone would be so kind as to de-classify this information I would like to speak with them and have a chance to set the record straight.

How does an article published in the Fall of 2008 manage to cancel a “production run” that had not even materialized? To my knowledge, the _*proposed*_ second run was canceled in the late summer, months before the article was even released to be reviewed. I suggest you contact Accucraft directly to get your facts straight, until then, your opinions or rumors hold no merit. 

Scott, Ross, Andrew and Mike:
Appreciate your different takes on the purpose of the article. Whether I compared to Aster or not, the AC-12 was “top of the line”, designed to be the flagship mainline engine for Accucraft. With the highest price tag for any Accucraft 1:32 locomotive to date, it should have had all the “bells and whistles” as it seems the CP Hudson has for nearly half the price. The limited time we had to review and diagnose problems the prototype AC-12 had, were sent to Accucraft HQ and all of these should have been addressed on the AC-11/12 production, not so, as only two to three were addressed properly. I believe that in having Dick Abbott foresee the production with the CP Hudson Accucraft is moving in the right direction with regards to creating engines that come very close to living up to the expected high standards for mainline engines. If this is so, then I can get two engines for the price I have had to invest to get one correct!! 

--Overview of the article in general- Postmortem 


As to writing any article there are many approaches such as: 
- Stick head into sand, bite tongue and paint a rosy picture despite the thorns 
- Disgruntled customer approach, send the product back and write an angry negative article 
- Tell it like it is and promote it for what it is worth, presenting the pros and cons equally.


I fully understood that based on prior articles some readers who do not have a perspective of “do what it takes to make the hobby better” would disagree. I learned from past when I wrote a “glowing” article for the Accucraft GS4 (gas fired) despite the alcohol version problems. On that particular day, with that particular GS4 (gas fired) it ran fine. Yet, I know several live steamers that took me to task for their engine did not perform out of the box as per the phrase in the article. With the Cab Forward on those particular steam ups and those given engines the performance was as I reported. More importantly, no matter the performance level there were areas of the running gear, pivots, suspension, etc that when inspected would become critical failure points and needed immediate improvement. 
Lastly, I have no problems with the utilization of comparisons when writing a review. This is what all markets do be it cars, trucks, airplanes, trains etc. When one reads a review for a group of cars (economy, compact, mid-size, large, SUV) the brand names are profiled and compared. In this case the product offering is categorized as large articulated steam engines (standard gauge) with two manufacturers involved. If a customer approached a retailer at the counter about articulated steam engine, he or she will be given information about available models to choose from and insight in making a decision as to what to purchase. 


Finally, Joe 779, you might want to read a bit more on the topics we post before you tell others in a open forum that we do not have any skills, working knowledge and experience in the “business” of live steam. Speaking of business do you really understand how small scale live steam companies work? Most “sub contract” many aspects, even Aster does it. Some of the best in the business job out various aspects of the necessary work. Yes, I have commissioned Gordon to do several engines with the hours of R&D resulting in top flight engines that can perform as well as any on the market (that is the level I expect for the money I spend on with my engines). I work full time, Ryan is in College full time and Jeff works a day job also, so we do not have time on our side when it comes to “learning the trade” as does the master(s) of steam for whom that is their job (for most of us we all are tradesmen to a master craftsman). After our arrangement with Gordon we have to “walk the walk” with the services we offer. Based on our (Ryan, Jeff, Alan, Justin) ability the work on the Accucraft GS4 (steam lines, exhaust, cylinder work, suspension, combination levers via GW, timing, water/fuel connections, side rod ball bearings, etc) it can run 200+smph if one so dares, with the greater torques produced, out pull any standard gauge 4-8-4 on the market today (The prototype GS4 retrofit won the 4-8-4 class in the annual pulling contest at DH 07, with the bare minimum of combination levers). We have successfully retrofitted 20 GS4 to a higher standard (as Robert attested to): 


As Mike McCormick indicated the stock AC-12 is a great base line engine out of the box. Our plans are to offer the same high end performance enhancements for the Cab Forward by improving areas of needed (e.g. cross head guide, combination levers, valves, suspension, pivot steam joint, connectors about a dozen retrofits). Joe779 you can take your business where you are comfortable (Accucraft, Dave Hottman, Norm Saley, etc.) there are many who assist those who strive to have the best steam locomotives that can offered.


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

I debated whether to reply to this or not. But here goes. I suggested to Dwight that he just let this air out. Down here in Texas we did not even know that there was some kind of contraversy going on if there is indeed one. Dwight's reply to me suggested "and everyone already knows about it". Whatever "it" is. I read the article in SiG and thought it was a little harsh and a shameless advertisment for Charles and Ryan's business. Something Ron Brown usually does not do. I saw some of these fine engines running at Diamondhead last year and they seemed ok to me. I know Cliff had the prototype for several years and he and others tweeked it before it went into production. On the other hand, I do not own one and no one responding on here apparently does either yet there are at least 60 out there somewhere. I appreciate all the tweeking that Charles and Co. do to these and other engines but not everyone needs or wants all that or has the money to pay for it. So I would say until we hear from some of the people that have the plain old fresh out of the box Cabforwards we still don't really know much about them. If some show up at Diamondhead this year I am sure they will be the hot topic. Meanwhile I want to thank Dwight for letting this post run it's course as we are all interested in what the various companies are putting out now days and their quality and operating characteristics. A lot of people post on here and some are disgruntled and some are very happy. It's good policy to let these thing air out so we can try and get a good read what is valid and what is just imagined.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight,

Thanks for moderating for MLS, and as John Frank said, for letting this run its course. Moderating is a thankless job, and IMHO you do it exceptionally well. 

Here are a couple of CF videos for your viewing pleasure from the NSS in Sacramento in July. To my knowledge of the CFs at NSS only the SITG review engine had been modified at all (it is the lead engine in the second clip and is running saturated).

Seven CFs in a light caboose move narrated by the inimitable Sonny Wizelman:


Triple headed CFs (with the mid train engine a prototypical 16 cars back to allow the front two engines to hit the water plug spacing at Truckee):


With everything that has been said, I am very glad Accucraft did this engine --- and I would buy again in a heartbeat. 

Best regards,

Alan


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

John
Once again you are making incorrect inferences as to the nature of the article, "a shameless advertisment for Charles and Ryan's business." There is no mention of business offering in the article nor implied as such. 

You are correct in that Ron Brown would not have allowed for us to use an article to promote the self interest of any author over the good of a manufacturer or the hobby in general. In FACT one of the main purposes of the article was to point out a solution (free to all that reads it) to handling the problem of the rear engine steam line meltdown and how to fix it and keep the engine going. If you can point out the precise words (not perception nor "reading between the lines") that state a business proposition(service exchange for a fee) in the article then I will personally fly down to Texas with a public apology at one of your steamups (I'd like an excuse to visit the family ranch). 

As with the GS4 we documented all the fixes to the problems that allow anyone else to do the work if they wished to do so. Some did and others sent their engines to us.http://www.santacruzlumberco.com/MLS_PDFs/GS4_Performance_1-27.pdf 
We will be doing the same as I indicated in the prior post offering a comprehensive overview of the changes we are now doing on the AC-12 (along with photo essay of Gordon's fine work). Anyone that would like the upgrades and wishes to do so on their own can follow along. Once we have successfully finished the first total retrofit (hopefully for Cabin Fever) then I will send a PDF file to Dwight asking for the entire upgrade processto be placed into the steam files as with the GS4.
A preview of what will be covered:

Slide bars
Cross head guides

Axle pump
Suspension

Pivot point
Valve Rods

Valves 
Combination levers

Expansion links
Side rods

Valve ports
Steam passages

Pivot Saddle
Rear engine steam pivot

Oil lubicators
Miscel such as upgrading bolts, screws, etc

Quick disconnects 

Burner jet wire mesh application

Again, there has been no advertisement of service prior to this tread but if someone asked us to do so we would, as we have done with a variety of steam locomotives. As I indicated in the article: " "The running characteristics of the stock AC-11/12 as delivered has the capacity to run a prototypical speed(throttle wide open) 60-70 smph with a pull about 20-40 cars, making an impression to all..." and if that satisfies the owner then so be it.


----------



## pgregores (Jan 2, 2008)

I like mine just fine. Ran it today and had alot of fun. pete


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

I would like to voice my own thoughts as to this matter 

It's nice to see the normal select few (along with a new guy) are still progressing towards any constructive criticisim of a locomotive being a taboo. Send me to the stockades then for offending the almighty steam gods. (That's called sarcasm for those who do not know the concept) 

I guess perhaps the main issue here is the perception of people that know that we offer services to do the modifications described in the article. Those who are familiar with our work respectfully understood where the article was based from. However, we were and still are not at liberty to discuss the details of issues with the engines, or the fixes created between Gordon Watson and ourselves. I would like to point out that the article was written as fairly as possible. 

As for the comparison, until another mass production 1:32 mainline locomotive company comes about, then who else is there to compare to except Aster? So far as I can tell, the comparison was made as fair as could be, but what do I know, since most of the antagonists on this forum seem to think we are Aster biased 

I will leave it at that, infer and bad mouth the review all you want, but until you have had a chance to understand fully what it takes to keep these beasts on the road in either stock or modified form, but DO NOT call me out and say that I lack experience in this area of our hobby. Doing that can only lead to trouble for those that have said so. I have been deeply involved in SS live-steam for nearly 10 years now, of which 5+ have been spent refining my skills and learning new tricks of the trade, while still trying to make a name for myself in the real world. 

If I had seen the original postings by Mr Joe779 and others, then perhaps my response would be different, as it stands I can only presume they are now cyber-dust. No matter, I still stand by what we wrote and will help those that are in need.


----------



## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

As for the comparison, until another mass production 1:32 mainline locomotive company comes about, then who else is there to compare to except Aster?

How about Aristocraft....mmmmmmwhahahaha....Sorry Ryan just couldn't resist. Tongue in cheek you know. Gotcha! Happy New Year from your original mentor at Steam Town 199? Whoops forgot that the Aristo Mike is 1:29 and NO we will not get into 1:29 vs 1:32. We will leave that to Louis and company....
N


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By livesteam5629 on 12/31/2008 4:31 AM
How about Aristocraft....mmmmmmwhahahaha....Sorry Ryan just couldn't resist. Tongue in cheek you know. Gotcha! Happy New Year from your original mentor at Steam Town 199? Whoops forgot that the Aristo Mike is 1:29 and NO we will not get into 1:29 vs 1:32. We will leave that to Louis and company....
N 



Good one Noel! 

As far as I can remember, it was either 1999 or 2000 up at the trolley museum, as fer back as this padawan can remember.

pictures are worth a thousand words eh?:









Had to dig around in the photo archives for that one! 










Happy new year to you too, may 2009 bring peace to you and everyone around you.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

As I indicated in the article: " "The running characteristics of the stock AC-11/12 as delivered has the capacity to run a prototypical speed(throttle wide open) 60-70 smph with a pull about 20-40 cars, making an impression to all..." and if that satisfies the owner then so be it.


Interesting thread (and a neat photo of Noel and Ryan. I think I have one like that somewhere.) I read the article in SitG and it seemed fair, but it did strike me that the review was from the perspective of an "expert" who understood the potential problems and knew how to correct them. 

One could argue that a review written by a less-experienced person, who could experience the above-described 'stock characteristics' and may be perfectly happy with them, might have been useful. [The 4-4-0 review was of that ilk?] Then comes the article written by experts to point out all the things that can be improved! More pages for Ron, I guess.


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2008)

Ryan, 
Apparently you haven't received enough mentoring, fom the right people, or haven't been paying attention. Folks like Gordon Watson, who I have known for many years, and others like him who have freely contributed entire lives to the garden railway hobby, would never threaten anyone with "trouble" if they questioned his opinions. You cannot command respect, expecially with unsubstantaited puffery and threats, no matter how long you have been in the hobby. Dispite depending upon it for his living, Gordon has never guarded his knowledge like state secrets, he has always shared them freely with whomever was needful yet you jealously guard what he has given to you or helped you learn. Precociouness can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending upon how it's channeled. Youth is not a crime but hubris, in anyone of any age, based upon fixing something one merely pulls out of a box, followed by threats of trouble for anyone who questions your opinions, IS and it's an attitude which many people find repellant and which will not serve you well in this hobby.


----------



## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Was that a gauntlet (or in this hobby, possibly a gantlet) I just saw thrown down?


----------



## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan has been receiving the best mentoring one could have in this hobby. Harry Quirk, Paul Quirk, Mike Moore and many others. He is still on the learning curve and will be for some time I suspect. I remember the day that one of my senior sergeants put his arm on my shoulder and quietly told me LT just follow my lead and I will teach you how to soldier. Thank God he did that because 23 years later as a LTC I was still following his lead even though he had departed from my life long ago and I was teaching young brash Lt's how to soldier myself. We all stumble and fall at times but our mentors are there to pick us up. It is the only way we learn. As the Live Steam Magazine guys started years ago "Each One Teach One" and our passion for steam will live on for a long time. 
N


----------



## Guest (Dec 31, 2008)

Yes, I know that quote well, in fact here it is in context . . . . 

"In closing for this issue, let me offer up some comments that should be more important than any I have made so far or will make in future writings. We all need to remember that we are the last practicing generation of a nearly extinct race of cavepersons, the Clan of the Steam Engine, who are working desperately to preserve a culture and technology that is a part of the past. The task will get more difficult with the passage of time. For this reason I have never found stinginess or arrogance with the knowledge that we have saved to be a virtue. Pass it along! 
I have had passed along to me a couple of thoughts which are worth writing in indelible ink upon your workshop wall. The first of these was taught to me years ago, when I first started, by an Oldtimer who told me to "make each part as if it were the only one". This is good practice, though I will be the first to confess that it is very hard to stick to all the time. The second is equally important and it says simply "Each one teach one". This is the key to our survival. The next time a young lad or lass tugs at your sleeve with what might seem to be a silly question, take a moment before you brush them off to consider that he or she is the NEXT generation of the Clan, and pass a little something along. Until next time . . ." 
Written by "Crankpin", The Fitters Bench, SitG issue #13, June 1992. Reposted with his permission.


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudge on 12/31/2008 8:51 AM
Ryan, 
Apparently you haven't received enough mentoring, fom the right people, or haven't been paying attention. Folks like Gordon Watson, who I have known for many years, and others like him who have freely contributed entire lives to the garden railway hobby, would never threaten anyone with "trouble" if they questioned his opinions. You cannot command respect, expecially with unsubstantaited puffery and threats, no matter how long you have been in the hobby. Dispite depending upon it for his living, Gordon has never guarded his knowledge like state secrets, he has always shared them freely with whomever was needful yet you jealously guard what he has given to you or helped you learn. Precociouness can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending upon how it's channeled. Youth is not a crime but hubris, in anyone of any age, based upon fixing something one merely pulls out of a box, followed by threats of trouble for anyone who questions your opinions, IS and it's an attitude which many people find repellant and which will not serve you well in this hobby. 



Well written Curmudge. I appreciate the knowledge and expertise of Charles and Ryan, but I guess I prefer to deal with people that do not feel it necessary to constantly remind me how smart they are.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

This thread is now getting personal again. There are some things which need not be posted on public forums and are better said privately in emails. Fair warning. Let's keep it to the article and the cab forward and leave personalities out of it.


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, 

You'll not be hearing anything further from me on this...anything that had to be cleared up has been. Others are entitled to their opinions, but the phrase "Don't judge what you don't know" comes to mind. 

To all: 
Apologies to those who misconstrued my defense as precocious and arrogant, as that was not the intent. I bring facts and do my research, but I also have and am always learning tricks of the trade. 5 years ago I could not do anything for fear of it breaking, and 10 years ago, I was as clueless as a baby lamb. 

By no means to I proclaim to be a smart arse or know it all, as one can never know everything. However I do know and have learned a fair bit on this subject. 

With that said, public humiliation will never blow over for those that are on the accused side, remember that. Opinions are like (insert commonality here) everyone has one, and everyone will try and defend theirs as being the best, for that is Human Nature. 

I bid you fair steaming, This is a headache I do not need from people I do not know. No more "propaganda" will be populating these forums.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

"Well written Curmudge. I appreciate the knowledge and expertise of Charles and Ryan, but I guess I prefer to deal with people that do not feel it necessary to constantly remind me how smart they are."

Curmudge, you are selling Ryan (me too) short-Your characterization of Ryan attributes as a person and member of MLS are based on no personal insight(face to face) just a web avatar. You have never meet him, interacted with him nor attended a steamup with him(the many times he assists other both in learning how to run steam and fix steam problems). His response relative to a "threat" was based on the threat that Joe779 was doing to his "good name." Please refrain from making assumptions about those who have been mentors to my son based on the stupidity of the statements in the opening of this thread combined with others "flaming the fire"that have seriously upset him. There isn't one person on this site that can say that they have not written or said something that was not stated well during a stressful moment. Secondly, most of the posts we present on MLS are ones that shares the knowledge (e.g. GS4 updates, Berk kit building and so on). As I stated in a response to John's post on this thread we are in the final development stages for an article (FREE) that would detail the upgrades to the AC-12 here at MLS(similar to GS4 post)http://www.santacruzlumberco.com/MLS_PDFs/GS4_Performance_1-27.pdf So, to indicate that Ryan and/or I are selfish and not willing to pass on knowledge for the good of hobby is an incorrect indictment of our contributions both here on MLS and to the larger steam community. At the same time it is extensive work and as such some things are not free (not speaking for Gordon but I venture a guess not everything he knows or does is free for the taking how else could he make a living?) and for Ryan what jobs he does goes towards his college costs. Finally, the specifics about upgrades to the long term problems of the AC-12 were held back(as agreed between us and Gordon) not to be secretive but to allow Accucraft to determine how to response if they thought it was necessary.

John
Such a loss..... but we will remember the good times when you were more open to learning about the cab forward:

/01/13/2008 5:36 PMhttp://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...umid/11/postid/4091/quoteid/5056/Default.aspxhttp://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...umid/11/postid/4091/replyid/5056/Default.aspxhttp://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...umid/11/postid/4091/replyid/5056/Default.aspxGreat in depth review Ryan. Really appreciate you sharing all this information with us. Keep up the good work.

John Frank
Katy, Texas
Home of the Texas Western Narrow Gauge RR
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...ge/1/view/topic/postid/4091/Default.aspx#7732


----------



## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

OK a couple of points and some information.. 
Ryan is offering services to those who dont feel thay can do this sort of fitting work themselves..as far as the costs . it is quite impractical to ship large models to Australia for work .. the frieght costs exceed the work costs! and in any case I have my own custom list of builds which Im trying to reduce and a week spent on repairs is lost to building time.. 
I was asked if I was intending to produce a kit of parts to cover some of the items on the CF, after thinking some I said no,as I didnt think many owners would have the skills /equipment needed to carry it out.but I did produce a sheet of drawings and notes which Ryan has to guide him. and he has done much more work in other areas than I did to upgrade these models, minework was just a starting point. 

I will bring to Diamondhead the Drawings and notes and they will be available to anyone whos interested in exchange for a Bibleous Bribe in the Bar..I would particularly like to look over a CF which some fair amount of run time on it and is totally original [ex factory] just to see how they are standing up in one or two areas. 

Look forward to seeing you all in two weeks. 

Gordon.


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

ALL 

First, as another owner of a CF, I have been generally happy with its operation out of the box. Alan R and the Bednarik's are interested in taking the stock locomotive [either the GS-4 or the CF] and tuning and tweaking it for maximum performance. I had Ryan do that to my GS-4 before it ever turned a wheel on the IE&W Ry. 

NOW, for a little reflection for all you guys over about 50 to 55. How many of you in high school or college bought a Chevy, Pontiac, Ford, or Dodge that ran "ok" off the show room floor [out of the box]? A lot, I would venture. How many decided that car needed: better tires, tuned suspension, exhaust headers, new camshaft, Hurst shifter, Eaton rear end, Jans piston, Weber carbs.......? Still more than a few. And last; how many went to a speed shop and had the work done by someone else because they had neither the time, or more likely the tools and skill? Probably more than half. 

I see an obvious parallel here. Having someone else improve the performance of your live steamer is perfectly reasonable, and how that end is accomplished is up to the individual. 

I think it is unfortunate that many who know that the Bednarik's will do this for a fee made the great leap that the article was an "advertizement". I didn't see it that way. I do think that their enthusiasm in documenting ALL the things that they chose to tweak or fix DID turn the article from a review of the locomotive as delivered into a HOT ROD Mag equivalent of "How to make your stock Chevy Nova blow the doors of the competition" while comparing it to a Corvette. 

Not a defense of the article or the authors; after all, I noted that apparently the editor dropped the ball in reviewing the article for misspellings, incomplete sentences, and poor grammar structure. But there was a lot of intersting and useful information. Did anyone happen to notice that? Based on this thread, i would guess not very many. Too bad. 

Ryan and Chuck... don't give up on the writing. 

Happy New Year. 

Dr Rivet


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Amen! 

Greg


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim

Good anlogee, anlowgy







As with any mode of transportation is it all about efficiency and performace(as it was with the 1:1 "real" RR): plane, trains and automobiles.....


To et.al

As I promised we would share the upgrade process. This introduction to the process put forth to get a general idea of what is involved in a procedures of enhancing the cab forward (maybe there will be a future in depth log of the specifics once we finally have "learned" it like the back of our dirty, steamy hands). As Gordon indicated there is a lot of machining and parts to make or fix.


Introduction to the two partners involved in this project:


Ryan, here working on the rear engine:










Jeff working on the front engine at the time:












So, what is the first step?











How does an engine look with a completed break down (in order to do work on suspension, cylinders, etc) each time a component is upgraded a final unit test is necessary and that can require putting it back together then apart again if necessary (3x times and counting for this locomotive):











As per Dr. Rivet it is all about performance( how well steam goes in and comes out according to cylinders, steam lines,boiler, etc), so here is a photo of the cylinder port enhancement (glow point is the port opening):











Then there are other things like upgrading the bolts that help to hold together the critical parts but make it easier to take part without stripping out the head or thread:













BTW- Joe779 As kind and thoughtful as Gordon has been to us with diagram and insights; the information he sent to us (plans on pape, Q & A, and through emails) does not help in doing actual hands on (he is located in the Land of Oz) the break down, rebuild, porting, the necessary skills to actually make parts, tweaking parts in other areas we have explored and so on as he indicated. When we do the in depth article we are going to indicate and credit Gordon for his fine work that we utilize but the rest of the story is US! Also, this engine is not the AC-11 GW it is a "customer" engine. * FYI- this engine does not come with the "how to build" manual like Aster.....*

Finally, I will be putting a disclaimer to my signature that we do a service for live steam engines.


----------



## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

ONLY 3 times? You guys are smarter than me. I refuse to tell you how many times I had my engine apart before I finally got it to run as well as I liked. (and I am tempted to take it apart again, but Hans tellls me to run it more first) 

All I will tell you is I wish it was only 3 times. 

John


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 01/01/2009 10:01 PM
ALL 

as delivered into a HOT ROD Mag equivalent of "How to make your stock Chevy Nova blow the doors of the competition" while comparing it to a Corvette. 

Not a defense of the article or the authors; after all, I noted that apparently the editor dropped the ball in reviewing the article for misspellings, incomplete sentences, and poor grammar structure. But there was a lot of intersting and useful information. Did anyone happen to notice that? Based on this thread, i would guess not very many. Too bad. 

Ryan and Chuck... don't give up on the writing. 

Happy New Year. 

Dr Rivet


Yes Jim we did notice it and it was of course very interesting and informative. As you pointed out, the engine runs ok as delivered. The tone of the article was more like the engine was faulty to the point of not being worth having unless you made all these modifications. As a result some think that caused the orders to dry up and Accucraft to suspend production well short of their goal. Personally, I don't own one and I am not an Accucraft rep so I can't really say what is what here but I did read the article. In any case that was the real point of this discussion, not a critic of Charles and Ryans knowledge or abilities. I think to keep throwing that in our face is out of tune with the subject. I might add that few young people today are developing an interest in our hobby and fewer yet take the time to develop the skills that Ryan has and few father/son teams are able to develop a partnership such as theirs so they are to be commended for that.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John Allman on 01/02/2009 9:25 AM
ONLY 3 times? You guys are smarter than me. I refuse to tell you how many times I had my engine apart before I finally got it to run as well as I liked. (and I am tempted to take it apart again, but Hans tellls me to run it more first) 

All I will tell you is I wish it was only 3 times. 

John


John,

Is this a Cab Forward you are talking about? Or your Aster Allegheny?


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David 

John's post refers specifically to Hans. Any more questions? 

Regards


----------



## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

David - I was speaking of the Allegheny. I had to take my front engine apart many times because there was a steam leak that allowed the engine to run, but very poorly. I took the articulating joints apart and rebuilt them each time I took the engine off the front end. One time I took both engines off, and re wrapped the main steam lines. I had to refit the superheater and blower more than once each. Sitting on rollers the locomotive would run fine. But not on the track. Finally, after talking to everyone I could think of who could give me an idea - even if they had not built that particular locomotive - I put the whole locomotive in my wife's fancy whirlpool bath and ran it across the bottom of the tub on air. (quite entertaining actually, and I have the picture to prove it!) I was able then to see what was happening, and fixed the leak. I would not have been able to find it running on the track or rollers. In the end, it took longer to clean the oil slick in Caroline's tub than fix the leak! 
Besides the generally amusing vison of an aster turned into a U-boat, the reason I mention this is that while anyone can assemble a locomotive (and I mean anyone) not everyone can assess what is wrong and what needs to be adjusted. That kind of experience can take years to gain. Certainly I could not have sucessfully completed my engines without the help of Hans, Ross, Paul, Mike, Jeff, Bruce (who has run a U-boat himself) and a host of un-named but not unskilled or forgotten others. Ryan and Charles are certainly in that list. 
I do not own a Cab Forward, for the simple reason that I didn't want one. Seeing it right next to my engine, its quite impressive and ran fine. Ryan wants the engine to run outstandingly well, not just fine. So perhaps most people would neither need nor desire to go through the efforts that he, Charles and Gordon have gone to improve the already fine CF. Having seen the before and after results (but not the completed project) I believe they have suceeded in improving the locomotive. That is quite impressive to me, and speaks well of their knowledge and skills. 
Perhaps the article could have been writen or edited into a less tendentious vision of Accucraft's flagship model. It certainly would have eliminated this thread. But I would like to remind everybody that the work they have done, and the Cab Forwards themselves will survive long after we forget the current unpleasantness. 
Happy New Year to all, and I hope to see some of you at Cabin Fever in 2 weeks. 
John


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

I have sat back reading this thread.....................now my 2 cents. (and believe me, it's not worth that). What I see is a CF engine with hundreds of parts, many complex, and with the usual outward appearance and attention to detail that all Accucraft engines have. Does it have faults? Yes. But, is it a beautiful engine that will run? Yes. Many are happy with the simple fact that it is beautiful and does run. It may not pull as hard as you would think...........because of it's small steam admission, it may not run perfect because of valve gear that could have been better thought out and it may lean a little, and there may be issues with some of it's parts. But, overall.................to the 90% of folks that have them, this is all fine and it is their centerpiece engine. 

When the engine was released, people with very good intentions (and I do mean that) immediately take it apart and look for things that are not "Perfect". Remember, 90% of the owners are happy with it's performance out of the box. The people with good intentions are now reporting all the things that they find wrong with this engine. Pointing out the engines flaws is ok, and figuring out upgrades is fine. I even commend them for finding ways to make the CF a better running engine but remember, 90% are happy with it the way it is. So now, all of this cast's a pale over the engine. To make the 10% of CF owners that expect "perfection" happy with upgrades it in turn makes the 90% of "Happy" out of the box owners think that their engine is not so good. You also have to remember, not everyone can afford an Aster BB or Allegheny. The out of the box CF with it's imperfections is as close as most will get and this might be stretching the budget. While I love Aster (I used to call myself the Aster Snob) I do not think that enough credit is given to the out of box CF. (My gosh, did I really say that







?)

Yes, with all the modifications the CF can be made better. But now, you are adding a whole lot more to the cost of the engine and risking shipping it back and forth. We have all had problems with shippers. I hope all understand what I am trying to say. I am not trying to step on any toes.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim & John - Thanks for the clarification. Very interesting.... I always thought it was just slipping drivers due to suspension problems (I've seen you working on this at Jims and Cabin Fever). Now it all makes sense. BTW- I have about 50 pictures of your engine! LOL 

Steve - Did I read that right??? Very well put.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve
"People with good intentions" did not "take it apart and look for things that are not "Perfect". Honesty, for us the entire situation of investigating the engine came about from several obvious aspects staring all of us owners in the face: running boards at an angle, no working combination levers then there were failures such as broken shoulder bolt that holds the lead truck, the inability to track on a 12 foot radius and so on. Personally, I find perfection something hard to believe in whether it be in life or hobby (e.g. Texas should be playing for the National Championship having beaten the Sooners- even that system is not perfect) and my Asters have faults (hopefully no one will read this) we either choose to live with life's imperfections or strive to make things better(learning from one's mistakes) in determining one's happiness.


Here is hoping that all of us "happy owners" will find the AC-12 running well along the rails in 6 or 18 years time.


----------

