# AML offering some new live steam models!



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

New product announcements at American mainline

Yes, 1:29 I know but still interesting. I've kind of made my peace with 1:29. I wish they'd never started down that road, but...


http://www.americanmainline.com/loco.htm

A K4 in live steam 




The 0-6-0 with Vandy tender

And this











Who knows when these will actually appear


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd trade both my K4 sparkies for 1 K4 LS. Nick Jr


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## ETSRRCo (Aug 19, 2008)

1:29? Whats up with this scale? Is it more true to scale?


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

1:29 is a "toy train" scale on gauge one track, a scale model will use 1:32 on gauge one track, not that there is anything wrong with the 1:29 it is very popular . I just think it gives everything a NG look with the wheels tucked so far under.


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## dmk092 (Jan 5, 2008)

Aster and accucraft US standard gauge prototypes are made at 1:32, which is the correct scale for gauge 1 track. However, LGB (RIP), aristocraft and USA trains produce trains in 1:29 (I assume so that it looks less out of place when running with narrow gauge equipment), which is incorrect for the gauge of the track. Thus 1:32 is "true to scale" and "looks" better. On the flip side, rolling stock is cheaper in 1:29 since you're in the domain of all of the big manufacturers.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

No, it's LESS true to scale. The correct scale, if you are modeling standard gage equipment, would be 1:32. 

It's complicated. Twenty years ago, most electric "G scale" stuff came from LGB as was based on European narrow gage prototypes. LGB tended to use 1:22 or 1:24. As I understand it, when Aristocraft set out to make US profile, mainline electric locos and rolling stock, they thought 1:32 looked too small. So they fudged the scale to 1:29, which works out to be about 10% bigger




It's funny, because narrow gage models in 1:20 are often way bigger than mainline models in 1:29 or 1:32, when in real life it would be just the opposite

I have kind of mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I can see how 1:29 looks wrong. On the other, 1:29 tends to "pop" visually. I wish Aristo had never started with 1:29, but it's here, it's established, there is a ton of low cost rolling stock, etc.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

US standard gauge prototypes are made at 1:32


MTH is also making gauge-1 models of std gauge prototypes at 1/32nd.


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi there:

My personal taste is definitely 1/29 scale. 

The 1/29 locomotive body and wheels are properly *scaled* , only the wheel gauge is too narrow for the track on which the locomotive is riding.

I viewed a MTH 1/32 Hudson and a USA Trains 1/29 Hudson. The visual impact of the 1/29 USA Hudson blows away the 1/32 MTH Hudson. 

I definitely would not consider the 5,000.00 USD 1/29 scale LGB/Aster J3a hand crafted brass Hudson a toy!

Now let us see what is the big error of 1/29 scale wheel gauge.

Prototype track gauge is 4' 8 1/2" 

which is 56.5 "

which is 143.51 cm prototype track gauge

1/32 of 143.51 cm is 4.485 cm model track gauge

1/29 of 143.51 cm is 4.948 cm model track gauge

Therefore, the 1/29 scale locomotive wheel / track gauge should be wider by 0.463 cm or 0.18 inches or 3/16 " .

Therefore, the wheels of 1/29 scale locomotives riding on gauge one track are 3/32 inches too far inward on either side of the locomotive. 

For those of us for whom the 3/32 inches gauge error is a disturbing visual blight , all I can say is they have excellent eyesight !

I was told that the 1/29 scale was chosen by Aristo Craft as the Old Lionel Standard guage train* bodies* were built to 1/29 scale. 
I don'tknow if the Old Lionel Standard gauge track was 1/29 scale.

I wish that MTH had chosen 1/29 scale. The MTH laboured chuff smoke and sound is very realistic. MTH electronics rules !

I wonder if MTH would let USA sell locomotives with MTH electronics ? Not likely!

So that is my preference, 1/29 scale. I am really looking forward to the AML future products. 

I wish that Accucraft had built CP2816 in 1/29 scale instead of the Royal Hudson in 1/32 scale.

Maybe AML will build a 1/29 scale CP2816.


Thank you

Norman


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

G1 1:32 had it's start in Germany a metric country but amazingly it was at the scale of 3/8"=1' . 1:29 had it's start in the UK. Some Brit locos are too small in 1:32 for live steam so they started fudging with 10mm = 1' scale. My personal preference is for true 1:32 but if you can live with the tiny gauge discrepency 1:29 has some advantages. 

Jack


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

I prefer 1/29. The scale of true 1/32 is actually WRONG for gauge one rails too.... 56.5"/32 = 1.765625 inches. 45mm is auctually over 1.77 inches. But hey, who's keeping track? No pun intended. 

1/29!


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

If you divide 4' 8.5" by 45mm you get 31.89; a lot closer to 32 than 29! 

But who's rounding?


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## Old Boy (Feb 9, 2009)

>>The 1/29 locomotive body and wheels are properly scaled , only the wheel gauge is too narrow for the track on which the locomotive is riding.-Norman 

Norman, 
You are about as confused and upside down about the relationship of scale to gauge as anyone I've ever seen. The gauge is constant and never changing for Ga1 and therefore cannot be "wrong" for anything, it is the scale which vairies and which may or may not be wrong for the gauge.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Well 1:32 is off by less then 1/2 of 1 %, one in 29 is off by about 11% The metric conversion for 45mm gauge one track is 1.77165... so I used that as a "control" number. ( 1.77165 x 32 = 56.69 - 56.50= .19" ) ( 1.77165 x 29 = 51.137 
56.5 - 51.137 = 5.363") 
I gave a personal view point on 1:29 in response to it being more or less accurate, and acknowledged it's popularity. When I started in live steam it (standard gauge on gauge one) was referred to as 3/8 to the foot, 1:32, what the ****'s that? Anyone know what the fractional scale is for 1:29 ?? 
As to MTH I am glad they went 1:32, I don't want to spend $600.00 plus for each piece of rolling stock, I think the existing 1:29 manufactures would not all survive if they gave up some sales to yet another manufacturer.... 
It's all good, it TRAINS. speaking of trains, it's time to go boil some water.


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## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

Posted By ETSRRCo on 04/16/2009 9:19 PM
1:29? Whats up with this scale? Is it more true to scale?


!:29 is exactly 3 times larger than 1:87 so it was simpler to scale HO designs by a factor of 3.
Dan


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

I think that you are on to something there, Dan.

There a several models manufactured which appear to be "blown up' versions of an HO model.


cheers


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## Havoc (Jan 2, 2008)

!:29 is exactly 3 times larger than 1:87 so it was simpler to scale HO designs by a factor of 3. 


That got absolutely nothing to do with it. You really think they scaled from h0 to 1/29? If they did that they went in for some serious trouble as h0 is likely not 1:87. Most parts would end even larger than needed for 1/29. 

It's funny, because narrow gage models in 1:20 are often way bigger than mainline models in 1:29 or 1:32, when in real life it would be just the opposite


No, it would not. If both are in the same scale they will have the same relative proportions their full size prototypes have. What you say is that the prototype of an h0 engine would be smaller than the prototype of the same engine in gauge I.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Old Boy on 04/18/2009 7:22 AM
>>The 1/29 locomotive body and wheels are properly scaled , only the wheel gauge is too narrow for the track on which the locomotive is riding.-Norman 

Norman, 
You are about as confused and upside down about the relationship of scale to gauge as anyone I've ever seen. The gauge is constant and never changing for Ga1 and therefore cannot be "wrong" for anything, it is the scale which vairies and which may or may not be wrong for the gauge.


No, Norman has it totally right..
of course Gauge 1 track can be wrong for things..its wrong for plenty of things..
its wrong for HO scale, N scale, O scale, 1/29 scale, etc..


all 1/29 scale models are to scale in all respects except the gauge..

so naturally, 45mm track is wrong for 1/29 scale..its quite simple.
HO scale track is also wrong for 1/29 scale standard gauge models..in the exact same way gauge 1 track is wrong.


Norman and Old Boy are saying the exact same thing..

just in different ways..

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Havoc on 04/18/2009 12:27 PM


It's funny, because narrow gage models in 1:20 are often way bigger than mainline models in 1:29 or 1:32, when in real life it would be just the opposite


No, it would not. If both are in the same scale they will have the same relative proportions their full size prototypes have. What you say is that the prototype of an h0 engine would be smaller than the prototype of the same engine in gauge I.






Yes it would..
Havoc, I dont think you understood what Lownote meant..
it has nothing to do with HO scale..


A Prototype 3-foot gauge K27 mudhen is a smaller locomotive than a prototype Standard gauge 2-8-2 mikado.


However a 1/20.3 scale *model* of a K27 mudhen is a *larger model* than a 1/32 scale model of the standard gauge 2-8-2 mikado..

thats all that was meant..

sometimes smaller prototypes end up being larger models, when compared to the smaller models of larger prototypes,

while both run on the same 45mm track.. 


Scot


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, us 1/32 guys will not touch the 1/29 stuff because it’s out of scale, and I guess I’m one of them. Now I see gauge 1 track is wrong for 1/32 also. I can’t believe that all these years I’ve had to put up with the gauge being out 0.004375 inches. That’s it; I now see I’ve been had. Who can you trust these days?


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

How about widening the gauge one track to 1 and 15/16 inches, that would solve it for 1/29. Let's do it! Yeehaw, now, how am I gonna regauge all my trucks? You know, the S Scalers will tell you that 1:64 is the perfect scale.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 04/18/2009 2:30 PM
Posted By Havoc on 04/18/2009 12:27 PM


It's funny, because narrow gage models in 1:20 are often way bigger than mainline models in 1:29 or 1:32, when in real life it would be just the opposite


No, it would not. If both are in the same scale they will have the same relative proportions their full size prototypes have. What you say is that the prototype of an h0 engine would be smaller than the prototype of the same engine in gauge I.






Yes it would..
Havoc, I dont think you understood what Lownote meant..
it has nothing to do with HO scale..


A Prototype 3-foot gauge K27 mudhen is a smaller locomotive than a prototype Standard gauge 2-8-2 mikado.


However a 1/20.3 scale *model* of a K27 mudhen is a *larger model* than a 1/32 scale model of the standard gauge 2-8-2 mikado..

thats all that was meant..

sometimes smaller prototypes end up being larger models, when compared to the smaller models of larger prototypes,

while both run on the same 45mm track.. 


Scot




Yes, thank you Scott, that's exactly what I meant


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Hello Lownote: 

Cudos for stimulating quite the dialogue here!

1:29 Vs 1:32... ummmm.. 


As mentioned in earlier threads, room for both, the issue is matching eras and mixing properly in order to create a train that "looks" decent to the untrained eye yes???????????????


AND I mean just that... "untrained eye" 

Enjoyed this banter..


gg


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## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

And to think I opened this post to see a review of 1/29 scale AML/Accucraft steam!

The scale argument always comes down to what you are invested in. If it were not for Lewis and 1/29 scale, Mainline American Train models may have never taken off. I know the Brass 1/32 was just to expensive for me to take on the addiction in that scale. I was hooked by Aristos U-25B. THe USA trains launched thier Switcher, followed by the most detailed rolling stock in G scale with thier precision series. My $3000 big Boy is my reminder that, For me, I made the right choice not to drop $10,000 for the Aster years ago.

I would say those entering the hobby now have a tougher choice to make, 1/29 product availability,Multiple Producers, accuraccy to it's own scale, and it's lower costs VS 1/32 scale fidelity, lower availability of product, less producers, higher costs or lower accuracy to scale (MTH), Better electronic sound, some unique offerings(Accucraft), greater avalibility of 1/32 diecast vehicles.

Pete


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## Slick (Jan 3, 2008)

I like the Tank Engine and most importantly, I can afford 1/29 scale.


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## dmk092 (Jan 5, 2008)

My question is, will I be able to fit RC in that dockside cab? It is a switcher after all, and you dont see that many LS switching layouts.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Good question. The difficulty of R/C'ing the 0-6-0 is one of the things that stopped me from buying one. There's an article on how to do it in the most recent STIG, but it does not look easy and I'm a novice. I preordered one and I'm thinking it's going to be as hard or harder. The website says "RC ready" for the Dockside but not for the 0-6-0. Wonder what that means, if anything? It also mentions an optional slopeback tender for the 0-6-0. The electronics could go in there.


OOPS--sorry, I just checked the website--it does not say "RC ready" on the website, neither does it mention and optional tender. I think maybe I read that in the ad in GR?


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