# Another way to cut a square hole (with a LASER!)



## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

A few months ago a question came up about cutting a square hole in wood or plastic - I posted a reply showing how I do such cuts with a Harbor Freight multi-tool.

I recently purchased an inexpensive laser engraver / cutter from eBay and, to say the least, I am thrilled with its performance vs price!

I did a few videos and have some notes on my web page here:

http://trainelectronics.com/LaserEngraver/

Please note that this page is not complete - there will be more to come as I experiment - 

dave


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Dave,

That is amazing. I would have expected the edges of the plastic to have melted - with ragged edges.

Thanks for posting.

Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry - I was blown away when I first used it with acrylic - the edges are sharp and true - I still have lots to learn but is it turning out to be an excellent investment!

dave


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Pretty neat Dave... You make it look easy too. 

Have you tried other materials, such as styrene?

Michael


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael Glavin said:


> Pretty neat Dave... You make it look easy too.
> 
> Have you tried other materials, such as styrene?
> 
> Michael


So far I have only used acrylic and wood - more to come as I get into it.... stay tuned!

dave


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Dave, informative video. 

Though I don't have a laser, I've had numerous parts done by a laser service for architectural models, out of plywood, styrene and acrylic, with very nice accuracy. I really like how the acrylic parts had polished-looking edges.

You probably know this, but it's important not cut PVC or any kind of vinyl, I've heard that it messes up the machine, and produces hydrochloric acid when burnt. FWIW, Here's a list of materials to avoid and use:

http://atxhackerspace.org/wiki/Laser_Cutter_Materials

Sounds like you're having a lot of fun, I'm jealous!
CJ


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## RAY CLIFFORD (May 31, 2014)

I have been using a laser for 18 mo. now the learning curve is not too steep , even for a old guy It has extended my modeling life by being to work over size . eg. door plates multi mullion double hung windows .Raster brick etched signs in windows etc. I use corel draw xx6 and a US made laser by Epilog . .Basicly a plug and play If I can figure out how to post photos I wii share my work Regards Ray


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

I added some more information to the web page that covers my experiences with the laser cutter / engraver.
http://trainelectronics.com/LaserEngraver/
These include a list of Pros and Cons of this unit and a test that shows that the unit can cut up to a dimension of 7 5/8" x 12 1/4" - not bad!

dave


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

*Dave...some questions*

About two years ago, I got the itch to buy one of these laser cutter/engravers and decided to not buy one at that time. The unit you have now is called a K40 in the laser cutting world and comes in a variety of models...all based on the one made in the PRC. 

The original K40 came with a PRC made circuit board that controlled the cutter using a drawing/"cnclike" program call Moshidraw. The laser cutting folks back then really criticized that controller board because it couldn't process regular G code...and the Moshidraw program was full of bugs.

That led to some entrepreneurs replacing the circuit board with one made in Japan that conformed to the G code standards of the CNC world. Of course, that drove the price from $400 up to $1200. Then to make matters worse, other entrepreneurs advertised cutters for sale for $1100 for the improved cutter (with the Japanese board) but (fraudulently) delivered the original Moshidraw version. That was complained about on several CNC and laser cutting blogs...and it's what made me decide to not buy a system.

So...some questions for you. 

1. Exactly which eBay vendor did you buy yours from...since you got one that works. Do you have a url for it?
2. Can you buy replace laser tubes from him? I learned that the tubes in those K40 were good for about 40 hours of cutting at 40 watts...more if you dialed em down...but not much more.
3. You said "I plan on removing the frame and installing a bed made up of these wood beam mending plates:"....can you expand on that. What frame...what bed? Why are you doing this?
4. The K40s, back when, had an alignment issue in that the laser was only aligned properly when it was a specific distance from the part being cut...and if the part were higher or lower than that distance, the cut started at the wrong place. Does you laser have some device you put on the laser head to align it?
5. Did your K40 come with an air jet to blow smoke away from the laser lens to keep it clean. Early K40s lens' got dirty from smoke debris and that was fixed by adding some air jet.

Thanks....


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Dave
You have just scratched the surface of laser capabilities, I am like Ray in above post, I too have an epilog, I will always have a laser, mine is much larger, and it is used in my business, but it sure is a fun toy to have to play with in after hours.
not sure if your machine has an adjustable height work table, but it is quite serious for the material to be at the proper focus height.
Does your machine have a raster mode, or does it strickly do vector cutting, as you have done in your video.
At this price it could be quite useful for many, for the hobby.
Dennis


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Well...I didn't wait. I bought one today after finding your ebay seller.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Reilley said:


> About two years ago, I got the itch to buy one of these laser cutter/engravers and decided to not buy one at that time. The unit you have now is called a K40 in the laser cutting world and comes in a variety of models...all based on the one made in the PRC.
> 
> The original K40 came with a PRC made circuit board that controlled the cutter using a drawing/"cnclike" program call Moshidraw. The laser cutting folks back then really criticized that controller board because it couldn't process regular G code...and the Moshidraw program was full of bugs.
> 
> ...


Hi, Mike - It looks like you found my vendor and ordered the unit - good deal! I think you will enjoy it - please keep us posted on your experiences with it!

As to your other questions:

2. As you may have seen the vendor I used does not sell the tube separately but does have a listing of the unit with a spare tube for an additional $150 or so. As to service life on the tube I think (and hope!) your numbers are low - I have seen advertised lifetimes of 1000 or more hours and forum postings of at least 300 - that depends, of course, on power settings - I find that most of what I need to do can be accomplished at 10ma settings or lower - hope that makes it last a long time!
3. The unit comes with a metal frame to hold smaller pieces of work - limiting the work area to about 3.5" x 8" - the x/y dimensions that the unit can do are more like 7 x 12 - if you remove the frame you can make your own base / table to hold the work at the proper height --- that is what I plan on doing --- I'll document it once I get to it.
4. The laser has a lens that focuses the beam at a particular point under the last mirror - if your work is above or below that point the beam will be wider than ideal - there are a number of YouTube videos that show how to align the mirrors 
5. The cutter did not come with such a blower but I have a small compressor from an air brush that I may add to it - haven't seen the need yet as the air flow from the exhaust fan does a pretty good job.

Hope that answers the questions!

dave


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

denray said:


> Dave
> You have just scratched the surface of laser capabilities, I am like Ray in above post, I too have an epilog, I will always have a laser, mine is much larger, and it is used in my business, but it sure is a fun toy to have to play with in after hours.
> not sure if your machine has an adjustable height work table, but it is quite serious for the material to be at the proper focus height.
> Does your machine have a raster mode, or does it strickly do vector cutting, as you have done in your video.
> ...


Dennis - I am sure that there will be lots more that I will discover about the machine and its capabilities - the bottom line is that I love what I have done so far and am having a ball!

There is no adjustment on the work table - I may try building something like that for it.

There is no raster mode as the laser power adjustment is not done in software but with a potentiometer on the cutter itself - I find that I can get around that by layering things in CoredDraw and doing engraving of text and such at a lower power setting then cutting at a higher one - a work-around for sure but it does work!

dave


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Reilley said:


> Well...I didn't wait. I bought one today after finding your ebay seller.


Excellent!

I didn't speak to your commend about the controller and software - the unit does not use Moshidraw but a different controller (see the photo below of the controller)

That controller comes with a plug-in for CorelDraw that allows you to use that program quite effectively! I had it printing in less than an hour without reading the book! (It is TERRIBLE!)

dave


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

*Engraving*

FYI, I just added a section on my web page that shows an example of doing an engraving. There is a video, too
see: http://trainelectronics.com/LaserEngraver/
dave


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Mike for your very specific questions, and thanks Dave for answering them. So many variables to consider! I'd really like to have a laser cutter, even more than a 3d printer.
Great thread Dave.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave....re your 5th comment " The cutter did not come with such a blower but I have a small compressor from an air brush that I may add to it - haven't seen the need yet as the air flow from the exhaust fan does a pretty good job."

The blower was not related to helping exhaust the air from the unit. The blower was designed to blow air right at the point the laser is cutting to keep flames created or debris "exploding" out of what's being cut from hitting the lens of the laser. Allegedly, it also helps keep smoke out of the way of the laser beam, improving the quality of the cut...allegedly. 

From what I've read, if you cut/engrave woods that have a lot of resin in them, you actually ignite the resin and it pops and snaps...and the heat/smoke carry the resin up onto the lens. This blower add on keeps that from happening...and in higher end cutters is a standard part. You can find the add-on blower part on eBay by searching on "K40 laser". The laser that fits in that part is available on Amazon.com at http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S1EXW3Y?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00 . If you hook modify a USB cable, you can power that laser from the computer that's running the cutter.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's the link for the air assist device that you put around the lens and have air blown....and this one has a place to put the laser for zeroing the cutter. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281714578048

Michael Glaven put me onto another air assist device....

http://www.amazon.com/18mm-Laser-As...TF8&qid=1433716047&sr=1-12&keywords=k40+laser


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

CliffyJ said:


> Thanks Mike for your very specific questions, and thanks Dave for answering them. So many variables to consider! I'd really like to have a laser cutter, even more than a 3d printer.
> Great thread Dave.


Cliffy - it surely is the coolest thing I have purchased in some time - right up there with the 3D printers!

dave


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Reilley said:


> Here's the link for the air assist device that you put around the lens and have air blown....and this one has a place to put the laser for zeroing the cutter.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281714578048
> 
> ...


Mike - thanks for the info and the links - I did put together my own version yesterday and have added photos and some additional info to the web page - see:

http://trainelectronics.com/LaserEngraver/#Using_an_Air_Jet_to_Clear_Smoke_

dave


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Reilley said:


> Here's the link for the air assist device that you put around the lens and have air blown....and this one has a place to put the laser for zeroing the cutter.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/281714578048
> 
> ...


Mike - also found this on Thingiverse - I can print one!

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:343494

dave


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm seriously looking at the Micro-Mark version. Yeah, I know it costs a helluva lot more, but for a machine this complex, I want a good warranty, good clear instructions, and replacement parts availability if necessary. The M-M version also already has the X-Y axis "Home" limit switches, the air blower (including a pump) for the laser lens, the safety switch on the cover, laser position crosshairs, etc.

The reason I'm posting this is to let you guys know that M-M has replacement laser tubes available. Not sure if they are going to ask for your serial number or somesuch before they'll sell you one.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight Ennis said:


> I'm seriously looking at the Micro-Mark version. Yeah, I know it costs a helluva lot more, but for a machine this complex, I want a good warranty, good clear instructions, and replacement parts availability if necessary. The M-M version also already has the X-Y axis "Home" limit switches, the air blower (including a pump) for the laser lens, the safety switch on the cover, laser position crosshairs, etc.
> 
> The reason I'm posting this is to let you guys know that M-M has replacement laser tubes available. Not sure if they are going to ask for your serial number or somesuch before they'll sell you one.


Dwight - I would be quite interested in your experiences with their unit - from what I can see in their manual and other entries the two machines are very, very similar - probably from the same factory!

I also noticed that they finally have a 110 volt version - about time!

dave


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

> I also noticed that they finally have a 110 volt version - about time!


I don't think that's true. Was just on their web site, and the only offering is the 220v version. However, they do sell a 110/220 step up power supply as an accessory, or a bundle of the laser cutter and power supply at a slightly reduced price than buying them separately.

I realize they are most likely very similar to the eBay machines - if not identical. But the extras... air pump and lens blower, added "home" position switches, guaranteed working control board (see Mikey's earlier post), safety switch, laser positional crosshairs, clear instructions, and most of all for me, guaranteed warranty and replacement parts, including the laser tube itself, makes it worth the extra money.  Yeah, I could add all that stuff myself, but I'd rather buy it with all that stuff already done. 

Gonna be a month or so before I have the money though.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight Ennis said:


> I don't think that's true. Was just on their web site, and the only offering is the 220v version. However, they do sell a 110/220 step up power supply as an accessory, or a bundle of the laser cutter and power supply at a slightly reduced price than buying them separately.


Dwight - I got a printed catalog from they the other day and it showed a 110 volt version - much better since you don't need the converter!

dave


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Agreed. Just got a box of other stuff I ordered from them which I haven't opened yet. Probably a new catalog inside... I'll check it out.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

a fun project, this is my GRR logo, cut out of Redwood
Dennis


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

dbodnar said:


> Dwight - I got a printed catalog from they the other day and it showed a 110 volt version - much better since you don't need the converter!
> 
> dave


Just looked at the catalog which came with my current shipment... "Early Spring 2015" with a picture of the laser cutter on the cover. My catalog clearly states that the laser cutter is "220vAC (or 110vAC *with the power supply we sell*... see #86127 at right)." Same as before.

Are we looking at the same catalog?


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmmmmmmmmm? I pitched the catalog so I can't check into it - might be worth giving them a call or dropping them an email.
dave


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

You were right Dave. Just received a new Micro-Mark catalog - Summer - and the laser cutter is now 110v ready.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight Ennis said:


> You were right Dave. Just received a new Micro-Mark catalog - Summer - and the laser cutter is now 110v ready.


Dwight - it is good to hear that I haven't completely lost my mind!
thanks
dave

PS lots of updates on my web page including a G-scale shed --- see:

http://trainelectronics.com/LaserEngraver/#G-Scale_Shed


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I ordered a laser cutter/engraver off eBay from exactly the same company that Dave did. It arrived yesterday. I does NOT have the same processor board that Dave's has. It has a version of the processor board with a history of problems....the Moshi board. Earlier versions of the Moshi board had bugs...bad bugs...and worked poorly with Corel Draw. 



Once I get mine up and operating, I'll tell how it's going. 



It looks like the bait and switch game is still on...but this time at $380 versus $1200.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike - that is really unfortunate - I would consider asking them to replace it with what you expected. Was there any information on the eBay listing that showed which board it would have?
Good luck & keep us posted on your progress.

dave


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

No...the ad does not state what processor board is in it...but I did buy it from the ad you had on your web site...and expected what you got.

Now, perhaps Moshisoft has updated their board, and this one works. Once I get my laser protection eye wear, I'll be able to test this thing and see what it'll do. I've also emailed the seller asking about the differences in the controller boards.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

@ Dave, where did you get the Corel Draw 11 plugin that lets you talk directly to your controller board?...or, does the plugin allow you to move Corel Draw 11 drawings to some other software that came with the K40 which actually does the cutting?


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

So...I've learned that if you are running the 64 bit version Windows XP, Vista, or 7 AND you have a Moshisoft version of the K40 laser cutter, you are sunk. There's no way as of NOW for that configuration to work. The Corel Draw/MoshiDraw/laser cutter interface ONLY WORKS under the 32 bit version of Window.

Someday, perhaps, Moshisoft might fix this...but not now in June 2015.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So do you need help installing a 32 bit version on some computer?


Will work for Scotch.


Greg


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Reilley said:


> So...I've learned that if you are running the 64 bit version Windows XP, Vista, or 7 AND you have a Moshisoft version of the K40 laser cutter, you are sunk. There's no way as of NOW for that configuration to work. The Corel Draw/MoshiDraw/laser cutter interface ONLY WORKS under the 32 bit version of Window.
> 
> Someday, perhaps, Moshisoft might fix this...but not now in June 2015.


What's stated above may not be completely correct...still peeling the onion. It turns out that what does NOT work when running in a 64 bit Windows is the Corel Draw Plug-in. Corel Draw works OK. Apparently MoshiDraw works OK. But the Plug-in that allows Corel Draw to "print" via the MoshiDraw software does NOT work.

This is substantially different than what Dave Bodner got. His software set up using Corel Draw directly prints to the laser cutter...which is what attracted me to this cutter.

Meanwhile, I'm going to load up on a 32 bit laptop I've got and see if this thing will work...and how hard it is to make it work.


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Reilley said:


> What's stated above may not be completely correct...still peeling the onion. It turns out that what does NOT work when running in a 64 bit Windows is the Corel Draw Plug-in. Corel Draw works OK. Apparently MoshiDraw works OK. But the Plug-in that allows Corel Draw to "print" via the MoshiDraw software does NOT work.
> 
> This is substantially different than what Dave Bodner got. His software set up using Corel Draw directly prints to the laser cutter...which is what attracted me to this cutter.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm going to load up on a 32 bit laptop I've got and see if this thing will work...and how hard it is to make it work.


Mike - if you get your software to work with Corel you should be OK even with the other controller..... fingers crossed!
dave


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

> Meanwhile, I'm going to load up on a 32 bit laptop I've got and see if this thing will work...and how hard it is to make it work.


Some laptops have trouble running CNC machines (which is essentially what your laser printer is) due to timing issues, often caused by power saving stuff that's unique to laptops. Before I could reliably drive my CNC stuff with a laptop, I had to purchase an extra board that handled the actual machine movements themselves, which are timing-sensitive. Ex: cutting a circle - the X and Y axes have to be completely in sync and running at different varying speeds. Just an FYI... your milage may vary.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Well....that's not good. I do have the big XP machine....which I think is a 32 bit machine....cept I keep going backwards in OS's.

At this point, I've finished updating the laptop (it's been off for a year most likely, so everything was out of date)...and it's battery was at Zero. It's a Vista machine.

I also feel a bit more comfortable putting the Chinese MoshiSoft software on this computer...as you never know what else you're getting into.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

dbodnar said:


> Jerry - I was blown away when I first used it with acrylic - the edges are sharp and true - I still have lots to learn but is it turning out to be an excellent investment!
> 
> dave


Hi Dave,

After seeing how this/your discussion has progressed (I was lost long ago) I realize how obsolete I have become.

Does anyone still make little wood toy trains anymore? 

You are still sharp as ever.

Jerry


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

I was just thinking how nice it would be to own some sort of laser cutter and had no idea on where to get one or what to look for. Then I happened to see this and read it and I am very interested. I looked at the ebay listing mentioned and said none were available. Saw some different 40w offerings and have no idea if they are apples or oranges. So what would one look for on one of these as far as specs and details or perhaps should I wait until next summer when Micro Mark has their slow season sale?

Doug


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

bmwr71 said:


> I was just thinking how nice it would be to own some sort of laser cutter and had no idea on where to get one or what to look for. Then I happened to see this and read it and I am very interested. I looked at the ebay listing mentioned and said none were available. Saw some different 40w offerings and have no idea if they are apples or oranges. So what would one look for on one of these as far as specs and details or perhaps should I wait until next summer when Micro Mark has their slow season sale?
> 
> Doug


Doug - I did a little searching on eBay and found this listing that seems to be very similar
http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Precis...er-USB-Port-/141690337410?hash=item20fd66f882
the important thing is the listing says that it supports Corel Draw software - note that it does not include Corel Draw, but it should include the driver that talks to the cutter from Corel Draw.

dave


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

Dave, so does this cut through only real thin material? Perhaps the post someone did asking about stencils, this would be a good tool but not a cheap one. Wonder how great it is for cutting out wood?

Doug


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

bmwr71 said:


> Dave, so does this cut through only real thin material? Perhaps the post someone did asking about stencils, this would be a good tool but not a cheap one. Wonder how great it is for cutting out wood?
> 
> Doug


Doug - I routinely cut 1/8" plywood - it may take more than one pass at the highest setting but it cuts it very nicely.

dave


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

Dave, I asked the seller on fleabay from your link about what it would cut and he said 2.5 mm and didn't mention possibly doing multiple passes. I looked at buying Corell Draw and wondered about what version I would need and then compatibility with the computers I have? I saw some copies on fleabay for more money than this rig. 

Doug


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Doug - I purchased Corel Draw 12 (also called X6) - it was about $150 on eBay

see:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...orel+draw+x6.TRS0&_nkw=corel+draw+x6&_sacat=0

Make sure you use the commercial (full) version as the student version will not work.

I believe the laser cutter will also work with older versions of Corel - I tested it with 11 and it was OK.

I have cut thicker wood (up to 1/4" cedar) and 1/4" acrylic - all took multiple (as many as 4) passes - I just make sure the work is taped down securely so that it doesn't move while cutting and it works just find.

dave

dave


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Another way to make a square hole is to 3D print the object with a square hole in it. I've designed a RR signal head to accept a bi-color LED. Since the LED is mounted in a 6 mm cube, with the leads running at right angles to the axis of the LED, I printed the signal head with a 6.5 mm square hole in the center. I'd show you the file, but I can't figure out how to take a quality picture of the original Tinkercad file.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Dick Friedman said:


> Another way to make a square hole is to 3D print the object with a square hole in it. I've designed a RR signal head to accept a bi-color LED. Since the LED is mounted in a 6 mm cube, with the leads running at right angles to the axis of the LED, I printed the signal head with a 6.5 mm square hole in the center. I'd show you the file, but I can't figure out how to take a quality picture of the original Tinkercad file.


Assuming your are running Winders of some flavor... Run Tinkercad and position your drawing as you wish to show the object to us. Then press the "Prt Sc" key on the keyboard. That key (these days) means to copy the screen to the Winders "Clipboard". Then run your favourite photo editing program and past the clipboard to it and save the result as a picture in whatever format you choose.

I use the simpleton drawing program that comes with Winders, "MSPAINT" (or just "PAINT", as different version of Winders has changed the name a few times). After I have captured the screen image in the Clipboard, I run Paint, then type "Ctrl-V" to paste the clipboard into the Paint window. Immediately (I mean without any other keypresses or mouse clicks) click and hold the mouse arrow somewhere in the middle of the pasted image and drag it up and to the left until the Pasted-in image of the Title Bar and Menu bars in the image have been pushed off the top and left edges along with any extraneous parts of the original screen image that you don't want in the final image. Then click off to the side of the image to unselect what was pasted (and shifted). Then on the right side in the middle will be a small square right at the border of the working window. Click and drag that to the left to narrow up the image to show just the part you want to present in the final image. Do the same with the tiny square at the bottom to move the bottom border up to crop off the extraneous parts of the desired image at the bottom.

Then "Save As..." the image someplace as either a BitMap (.BMP) or JPEG (.JPG) file. JPG will be a smaller file but with sometimes severe loss of detail. BMP will be a much bigger file but no loss of detail.

Copy that file to a photo hosting site (or to here if you have web space here) and paste the URL of that image into a posting that you want to show the image in. You can also upload the image directly to the posting from your computer using the "Manage Attachments" button below the text box where you type your words.


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Here's a picture of the signal head with the square hole.


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