# Brushless motor?



## skypup (Apr 15, 2008)

I use brushless motors for my r/c planes and helicopters. I even have an extra brushless speed controller or two. I run my Bachmann on a 3s lipo battery and the stock motor. Can some one steer me in the right direction to install brushless in my engine? Thanks in advance.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I know of no one who has attempted to do what you plan. 

Why do you want to complicate the matter? 

What benefits do you perceive a brushless motor to offer over the stock motor? 

Do you realise the brushless motor needs to have roughly the same mechanical specs such as revs per volt and torque output, to make a swap practical?


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

While it’s plausible to install a brushless motor its not practical IMO. 

Do you intend to use an RC Transmitter and Receiver to drive the brushless ESC? 

Brushed motors atypical of G-scale trains turn in the neighborhood of 4000-5000rpm @ 18V I believe consuming 1-3Amps OEM dependent. 

The important number when looking at brushless stuff is the Kv rating…. 

Kv rating: 
The Kv rating of brushless motors is the constant relating the motor's unloaded RPM to the peak voltage. A 400Kv motor, supplied with 11.1V, will run at a nominal 4,400 rpm. 1V=400rpm 

Kv is the voltage constant, not to be confused with kilovolts, whose symbol is kV (lower-case k, capital V) 

You’d need to find a brushless motor the size of 300/400 brushed motor (motor physical size is model/loco specific) with 400-500Kv rating to play with 3S LiPo’s. 

Michael


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## skypup (Apr 15, 2008)

I'm only running 11.1 v (3s lipo). I like brushless because they have greater efficiency resulting in longer runtimes and no maintenance. I am running r/c and use 2.4 Ghz for no interference operation. I'd like to run higher voltages. I am not getting much speed or power.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By skypup on 12 Aug 2010 07:17 PM 
I'm only running 11.1 v (3s lipo). I like brushless because they have greater efficiency resulting in longer runtimes and no maintenance. I am running r/c and use 2.4 Ghz for no interference operation. I'd like to run higher voltages. I am not getting much speed or power. Then the simple solution is to just increase the battery voltage to 14.8V (4S).


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## skypup (Apr 15, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 12 Aug 2010 07:22 PM 
Posted By skypup on 12 Aug 2010 07:17 PM 
I'm only running 11.1 v (3s lipo). I like brushless because they have greater efficiency resulting in longer runtimes and no maintenance. I am running r/c and use 2.4 Ghz for no interference operation. I'd like to run higher voltages. I am not getting much speed or power. Then the simple solution is to just increase the battery voltage to 14.8V (4S).
True. All of my batteries are used in 3s or 6s configurations I'm trying not to invest in more batteries.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Run time is not a factor with trains as compared to R/C Aircraft; there are many Engineers that run for 2-3-4 hours with 14.4V batteries, 2500-5600mAh run time runs the gamete... Its true brushless stuff is more efficient and requires less maintenance but again these are factors that simply are not an issue with trains relatively speaking. There is a grand difference in power or potential demands for trains verses R/C Aircraft. Typically trains consume 1-2 Amps on average thus the run time realized by all… 

If you don’t properly match the brushless motor to the rpm required any efficiency that would have been garnered is thrown out the window for the most part. A properly matched motor will consume well under 200 Watts I believe @ 11.1V. 

As Del noted, more power would speed things up! 11.1V is anemic for stuff that needs at least 18V for MAX speed. 

Michael


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## skypup (Apr 15, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 12 Aug 2010 08:56 PM 

Run time is not a factor with trains as compared to R/C Aircraft; there are many Engineers that run for 2-3-4 hours with 14.4V batteries, 2500-5600mAh run time runs the gamete... Its true brushless stuff is more efficient and requires less maintenance but again these are factors that simply are not an issue with trains relatively speaking. There is a grand difference in power or potential demands for trains verses R/C Aircraft. Typically trains consume 1-2 Amps on average thus the run time realized by all… 

If you don’t properly match the brushless motor to the rpm required any efficiency that would have been garnered is thrown out the window for the most part. A properly matched motor will consume well under 200 Watts I believe @ 11.1V. 

As Del noted, more power would speed things up! 11.1V is anemic for stuff that needs at least 18V for MAX speed. 

Michael 

I have a really good charger. Maybe I should make a custom pack from NIMH rechargeable cells. Lithiums tend to peter out in 2 years whether you use them or not. I have been placing my battery in the tender. I would like more pulling power rather than speed. I bought those custom front trucks for my loco (can't remember who sells them). I can make it around the loop several times but still derail at times. Should I add some lead to the loco for better traction?


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

Skypup, I also fly RC aircraft; in fact pretty much the *only *plane I've flown for the last several years is a "Pigi-3D" aerobatic electric from Hobby Lobby, powered by a brushless motor Lipo battery combination. *Very reliable *







& *high performance *







- the plane takes off in *3 ~ 10 feet & can go straight vertical *







, with average flight times of 9 minutes (perfect for flying during my 5 PM break at work - we have a soccer field right next to the plant!).







I'll largely agree that for RC aircraft, where a *high power-to-weight ratio is a huge advantage *







, *brushless motors *are pretty much the way to go.


On my trains, it's a different matter *entirely - *I'm perfectly happy with the performance of the *stock brushed motors *in virtually all of the locomotives I own. (Far & away mostly Bachmann products, mostly steam locos; I've also got a couple of USA Trains diesels, a single Aristo Alco RS-3, & an LGB rail truck). The *only actual motor failure I've had *is a second-hand Bachmann hand car I picked up off eBay (not one of Bachmann's better efforts







- I keep hoping one of these days they'll re-issue it with a decent drive mechanism).







The main "workhorses" of my roster are several Bachmann Shays, their 2-6-6-2T Mallet, Heisler & Climax (the last is my *oldest locomotive).*







*No motor problems with any of them.* Main limitation on train lengths here is my mainline's ruling grade of 3%; & if I "max out" train "tonnage" the usual problem is loco's slipping their drive wheels (especially if I've had the live steamers running the same day - they eventually oil up the rails ). Probably my most troublesome locos have been my USA Trains' New Haven Alco PA's - they've had a habit of stripping idler gears while hauling *80 ~ 100 lbs. *of USA streamlined aluminum coaches *(by far my heaviest train!) - *but *no problems with the motors themselves. *Also, since most of the times I'm running the logging-style locos (Shays, etc)., I'm usually running those at prototypically slow speeds (@ 10 ~ 15 scale MPH); the USA PA's on the streamlined "Merchant's Limited" are pretty much the *only locos I regularly run at "full throttle" *(maybe 80 ~ 90 scale MPH going downgrade). You indicated you weren't satisfied with speed or power on your current locos; what locomotives are you running & how long a train are you trying to pull
















*Tom*

*PS - I'm running DCC here *for track power & control, so battery life's not an issue for me.


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## skypup (Apr 15, 2008)

I have a live steamer also ( Accucraft Mogul). Here is a video of my Big Hauler running. I just recently put in this small layout. I am glad to knnow the motor situation will be ok. I think my major issue is low voltage. I'm only running on a 3s lipo. I'd like to try it on a 5s but don't have one currently (no pun intended).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmzkv0Ubnwo


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## skypup (Apr 15, 2008)

Here is a vid with it pulling a coach

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd6SgNQuTMw


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The speed looks pretty authentic...but I agree it's nice to have a little extra speed available.


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