# how do you make functional rivets?



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Not the decorative type.

I was admiring this model and noticed that the author says it's held together partly by rivets

http://www.sidestreet.info/locos/loco89.html 


I use a riveter for sheet metal, btw, but the rivets (which I get from Home Depot) are a lot bigger.

Dave


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

You can get some tiny ones here: http://www.scalehardware.com/


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

cool, I didn't see the riveter, however, on that site

out of curiosity, can these rivets be used as replacements for silver solder on a live steam locomotive for some components; didn't know how much of a seal you can get from them


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

One common source of rivets is to use brass escutcheon pins which are available in different sizes from hardware stores or Woodcraft. Using them as functional rivets would be possible but not easy and require that you make proper tools to form the head. Solderng them is a bit more practical. What we think of as a rivet is correctly called a "snap rivet" and is a bit more complicated than you might think. The rivets that Scale Hardware offers are a bit small for our scales. 

Jack


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

thanks; forgot to mention I'm in 7/8 scale 

I do understand you can make some rivet plates from steel with which to hammer them; also, I suppose they sell them; I've just not ever gotten around to doing one of these projects 

something sweet about rivets that are functional vice purely cosmetic; gives them a humpf factor, if that's a word


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

When the need arises I make my own. Actually it's a fairly simple process from brass rod. Others will start with the Escutcheon pins for head uniformity. 

I use a steel block with holes drilled all the way through for various brass rods. Anealing helps and the old fashioned way to create a head is with a ball pein hammer. Using the ball to flare a head wider than the rod and then shape to half round. It will be tight in the hole and I use a hammer to tap it out from the back of the steel block. Next I rough trim the shank so that it is plenty long compared to the 2 metal sheets that it will fasten. Push it through the holes and then trim back to diameter of rod left sticking through. Place rivet head on the steel block and form the back side head with the same ball pein hammer. Should be nice and tight when done. 

Is it water tight? No. Well yes around the hole but not necessarily so between the rivets. 

Now days I cheat and use a jack hammer attachment on my Foredom (flexshaft motor tool) instead of a ball pein hammer and can make fairly small rivets from 20 ga wire. 

These are nothing like a pop rivet which pulls the metal into place, What you should see is two half round heads . Low dome. 

John


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## jnic (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's my method ...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 13 Aug 2010 06:12 AM 
cool, I didn't see the riveter, however, on that site

out of curiosity, can these rivets be used as replacements for silver solder on a live steam locomotive for some components; didn't know how much of a seal you can get from them 



Rivets by themselves will never be good enough to make a boiler (pressure vessel). In the real 1:1 world, riveted boilers are becoming very rare and are outright outlawed in many States by their boiler codes.

Years ago, rivets were used as structural components to hold a boiler together but were not strong enough to seal against water/steam leakage. Seams were beaten shut (melded (note: not Weld, but Meld)) to seal them. It was known as "Calking" or "Caulking"... no, not the tube of silicon goo, but the actual pressing the metal together so hard (by beating on it) that it became as one integral piece of metal (like welding but without applied heat to melt the metal). Rivets were only used to hold the metal in place while that was done, and then hold the metal rigid so the meld didn't break due to vibration and torsional stresses. In reality, the metal is weakened where the holes were drilled and stresses build up at those points, so the metal had to be much stronger overall to account for the lack of strength caused by drilling holes in it and then introducing further stresses of compression by the rivets, both longitudinally and radially.

Riveted boilers in toy trains are also built along the same principles. The rivets only hold the metal in place while the silver solder is applied. Beyond that the rivets are more of a detriment to the structural integrity of the boiler than contributing any strength. If you read any of the various treatises on building a copper boiler the rivets are few and far between, are silver soldered over and often then ground off so the heads do not show.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

thanks, all for the suggestions, 

(jnic, your riveter is nice but not the functional one I'm discussing)


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