# World's longest model train?



## Capdiamont (May 4, 2008)

I have been unable to find out how the event went. Supposed to be the longest model train, and large scale at that. Does anybody know?


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Its not going well. Paraphrasing some of the comments I read on another site - they seem to be having problems with newbie operators with the Locolinc system, also all communicating is done by yelling. You can see a sometimes live stream here - http://ricktherailroadguy.com/longesttrainvid.html 

-Brian


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I just checked the red shirt site and did not see any new postings. 
I would think they would have to body mount those gunderson couplers or wire tie the ones that come factory. truck mounts pull down under pressure. 
I use Aristo TE in my USAT BigBoy and it handles the load fine.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Marty, They have body mounted Kaydee couplers. According to the other site, there were problems with the Big Boys today. 
I worked there two days last week, and it is a huge undertaking to say the least. There are many problems, and if anyone can solve them all, Rick can. If it can be done now, he will do it. 
Paul


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## NedsTJ (Apr 4, 2008)

It is still going on. You can link to the live video feed from his site. The trains were just running but have been stopped again for the last 10 minutes or so. Not sure how much light is left though, maybe 2 hours?


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Guys 
I was there last weekend and we were unable to get the "trains" to couple together. 
It is two USA gp30 to 6 usa 5 car articulated sets. 
As well as three USA big boys on the point in the middle and as pusher. 
the are trying to do it as I type 
There is live video feed from the DRV&E at www.ricktherailroadguy.com click on the watch it live icon on the top of the home page. 
Also rick has told me that there are about 38 sets of 5 car articulated numbered with there location on the train that he is trying to sell 
As well as the gp30 are being sold as a pair wit there unit number in the train wit locolink and a controler. 
If anybody is interested you can send me an email ofline and I can talk to rick 
Marty the bigboys are set up wit two locolink receavers and two sets of 18volt batterys 
Thanks 
Matt 
P.S. 
The train has the langth to beet the record


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

He just quit for the night, and is vowing to start again tomorrow. the whole thing has kind of an Captain Ahab, obsessed Fitzcaraldo kind of feel to it.


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Guys 
Just talked to rick the USA donated big boy lost its side rods and the other two wouldnt stay on the track through the switch. 
Marty hows yours like the #6 switches? 
running all diesals had 7 of the 15 trains working 
Matt


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Guys 
Just talked to rick he is planning to do it tomarow and friday at two PM 
He is lookoing for engeneers bad 
If you are in the phoenix area you could send me an email offline or get his number from his site posted above 
All the help he can get would be appriciated 
Matt


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt 
to be honest, I have to baby the BB all the time. Its NOT made to go backwards and the smoker doesn't work now. My AC #6 are ok going slow to med speeds. I talked to Jens last night he ajusted the springs to push down harder on the tender lead truck and pilot truck. 
Its a great loco but no fun to run. 
Any little stick on the rail ,it will walk up on the rail instead of crushing it like I thought it would. its a 45 pd "baby" 

I really hope Rick makes it happen, hes tried hard enough. NO one can fault him for that.


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Marty 
Thats why they call it a world record it is not ment to be beat and if kt is beat it is not easy. 
Also what kind of ru time to you get out of it and what kind of batteys 
Matt


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Seems to me, armchair quarterbacking, that the way to do this would have been track power. Sure, that railway's not a good candidate for track power for everyday use, it's too big, but the problem seems to be synching the locos and a bunch of guys. 

You could run 100 feet of uninsulated wire on either side of the track, and jumper it to the rails with alligator clips. Then get a honkin big power supply and throttle, and run a track cleaner around for 15 minutes. Then all the locos would be getting the same commands and you wouldn't have the nes in back pushing the front cars into derailment, etc. 

It'd be expensive to get all that wire, but it could be wound back on the reel and sold. And who doesn't need 1000 alligator clips?


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 05/06/2008 9:08 AM
Seems to me, armchair quarterbacking, that the way to do this would have been track power. Sure, that railway's not a good candidate for track power for everyday use, it's too big, but the problem seems to be synching the locos and a bunch of guys. 
You could run 100 feet of uninsulated wire on either side of the track, and jumper it to the rails with alligator clips. Then get a honkin big power supply and throttle, and run a track cleaner around for 15 minutes. Then all the locos would be getting the same commands and you wouldn't have the nes in back pushing the front cars into derailment, etc. 
It'd be expensive to get all that wire, but it could be wound back on the reel and sold. And who doesn't need 1000 alligator clips? 





While track power could work, this would not be the way to do it. You would need the amperage of a large arc welder! One derailment and... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 

The way to do it would be to seperate the track into seperate blocks of, say 50 feet. Each block would have a 20 amp power pack, and the system would use a common ground. The "train" would have groups of engines every ~50 feet so each group is essentually fed by its own 20 amp source. No more than two groups of engines would ever occupy a block at any one time and the power sources could keep up with the consist. The power sources would be first synced with a voltmeter and a master switch could be used to turn all on simultaneously.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

For such a big effort, maybe a little more planning was in order. 

Track power would be too much amperage if it was one block, and way too much hassle to break into blocks if not already wired that way. 

This will sound nuts, but I would run wireless, but find a way to have several transmitters. I'd use a one-way wireless system (bidirectional too hard), and then hook an amplifier to the SINGLE controller and run the output to several antennas. I would use a simple system like RC Systems. 

Run all the locos by themselves to get them matched well enough (does not have to be perfect, the load will even things out). 

Now you don't have to worry about 50 amps of power, nor multiple throttles. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty: 

"Its a great loco but no fun to run. " 

Um...what?! That seems to be a contradictory statement. If it is a great engine, then why is it no fun to run? If it is no fun to run, what makes it great? Why have it? Maybe you should sharpen the lead truck flanges to be as sharp as knives so that anything that gets in their way gets cut!! 

As for the worlds longest train, ok, whatever. I saw the ad in GR and thought, that looks funny, a big boy with double stacks. I had bad flashbacks of this book I started to read, but the dog didn't like it and shredded it for me before I could finish. 

180 cars? Why aren't they stock cars or reefers? Cutting down on the number of axles? 

Why aren't all the locos linked together to one controller? Didn't I read they were controlled with LOCOLINC? Isn't what that does? Why not use more helpers more often and use smaller locomotives, like aristo SD-45s or the like, spaced at head, 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, 4/5 and end of the train? 

50 AMPS!! for 3 engines? (and 6 motors?) Time to switch to 110 or 240 or 480!! Are they using marine batteries?! I sure hope no one gets hurt playing trains!! How many amps does one Big Boy draw?! 

Yike!! 

This would be way better if he used rockets for power.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I might not be following the number of locos proposed, but I get close to 10 amps with about 3 running at heavy load, so that was my guesstimate. I think I would use more locos, like a bunch of SD-45's, a tried and true workhorse. 

Locolink does not have the range to do this... trust me... You need a way for all the locos to hear one transmitter, and that means a one-way system to be simple. All the 2 way systems I know about are DCC, and that usually means track power. 

If money was no object, I would do it with DCC, multiple boosters would give 10-25 amps per power block, then all the boosters run from a single command station, and you can get wireless systems that can have up to 32 radio base stations... but I'm sure this is not at all appropriate for the financial and experience constraints of this project. 

Anyway, it's fun th think about...


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 

If money wasn't a problem, why not do this with live steam Big Boys or Alleghenies or some other huge steam locomotives!! 

I guess I'll have to look at the website to see how many engines are actually on this thing. It wasn't clear from the post, I thought it was saying "3 big boys, one up front, one in the middle, and one pushing", but that was my translation, and maybe it wasn't what the writer actually meant, and was simply in a huge hurry to post????? If it was really 3 up front, 3 in the middle, and 3 pushing, that'd make more sense about the power draw, but not about the power required. Did Jens Bangs have pictures posted of the 100+ car train he pulled with a single Big Boy? How many cars are they trying to pull? 

Planning? What's that?! 

If the post is right, it looks like he's planning to sell the train when done. I hope it works! 

Mark


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There was mention of some more locos earlier, and then the 3 big boys later. It was confusing to me. 

The issue is enough power, and good control. Steam locos would REALLY be a pain! The ideal situation would be identical locos, that all run at very similar speeds, then find a way to power all of them and control all of them with a single control. 

I don't know any details on the layout, but I would guess it's not level, I thenk Jens' has some really level spots... that could account for the need for much more motive power. It could also be that while the target layout is long, it has sharper curves. 

Maybe someone has a link or can shed more info on the target layout. 

Regards, Greg


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

I am one of the 15 engeneers in the wolds longest trains. 
From talking to rick and being at the layout to run the train 
A) There is NO way that you could run the train under track power NO mader how many blocks there are. 
B) Tod If you could use blocks how would it be possible to know whick block one of the 44 engines are in to spead it up or slow it down. 
C)And the whole armchair thing that the layout is not in the condition for track power that is not true the layout could be track powered it has rail clamps concret road bed 
D)Tod it takes between halfhour and 45 minutes to get around the layout 
E)Mark it is 75 sets of five car articulated that make a grand total of 395 cars the articulateds let us have one fith the number of coupalers for slack as well as the fact that the middle three cars share one truck 
F)The planning of this thing is through the roof 
G)Greg it is possible for that kind of range you hook the antina to the track 
H) Mark if you were to use a single transmitter it would be 7 amps times 44 equals 308 amps 
I)Greg DCC would not work eather the layout covers almost three acres! 
J)Greg and others the info on the layout is 
3800 feet of track overall 
* 1254 linear feet of track per main and it is a double track main. 
* 91 feet of bridges 
* 95 feet of trestles 
* 78 feet of tunnels 
* 1 city with a streetcar that runs through it separately from the mainline 
* several smaller towns and ranches 
* a pond with a capacity of 12,000 gallons which spills over into a river flowing to a dammed reservoir. 
The one proble are grades we decend 7 feet 6 inches from we exit the train barn to the bottom of the hill in about 800 feet of track 
K) The main reason that we are using the big boys are that USA donated them 
L) the other 44 engines are all brand new USA GP-30's with locolink and 1 volt batterys 
M) for more info and pictures of the Dynamite Rio verde and eastern go to www.ricktherailroadguy.com click on RAILROADS and then 3/4 of the page you will see the dynamite rio verde and eastern. 

IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR IDEAS IE DCC, ONE CONTROLER ETC. 
Rick told me to post his phone number he would be more then happy to talk the train or anything about trains 
the number is 
602-501-7553 
If there are any questions feel free to call again the number is 
602-501-7553


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

hmm, this makes for interesting discussion... please take it as that, and not arguing. 

Posted By cabforward on 05/06/2008 3:27 PM
I am one of the 15 engeneers in the wolds longest trains. 
From talking to rick and being at the layout to run the train 
A) There is NO way that you could run the train under track power NO mader how many blocks there are. 

>> Interesting, since you say in C below it could be track powered, I cannot see how you say you could not make the train run under track power. Please tell me what specifically makes it impossible. 


B) Tod If you could use blocks how would it be possible to know whick block one of the 44 engines are in to spead it up or slow it down. 

>>> if you set the unit up so that each block got the same voltage it would work, assuming you matched your locomotives... which is a good idea... or you could use constant voltage in all the blocks and then some kind of receiver in each loco like Aristo TE, DCC, MTH DCS, Locolinc, LGB MTH, AirWire.... (should I go on???) 


C)And the whole armchair thing that the layout is not in the condition for track power that is not true the layout could be track powered it has rail clamps concret road bed 

>>> Great! gives you more possible choices on how to make it run. 

D)Tod it takes between halfhour and 45 minutes to get around the layout 

>> 1254 feet is 0.2275 mile. 0.2375 mile in 3/4 of an hour is 9.1833 scale miles per hour by my calculations. Do you guys really run that slow? Or is this with stops? 


E)Mark it is 75 sets of five car articulated that make a grand total of 395 cars the articulateds let us have one fith the number of coupalers for slack as well as the fact that the middle three cars share one truck 

F)The planning of this thing is through the roof 

>> does that mean a lot of planning already took place, or there is a lot to go? 


G)Greg it is possible for that kind of range you hook the antina to the track 

>> kind of iffy still on such a long layout... 

H) Mark if you were to use a single transmitter it would be 7 amps times 44 equals 308 amps 

I)Greg DCC would not work eather the layout covers almost three acres! 

>>> It would work with the NCE system and their latest wireless cabs... no problem 

J)Greg and others the info on the layout is 
3800 feet of track overall 
* 1254 linear feet of track per main and it is a double track main. 
* 91 feet of bridges 
* 95 feet of trestles 
* 78 feet of tunnels 
* 1 city with a streetcar that runs through it separately from the mainline 
* several smaller towns and ranches 
* a pond with a capacity of 12,000 gallons which spills over into a river flowing to a dammed reservoir. 
The one proble are grades we decend 7 feet 6 inches from we exit the train barn to the bottom of the hill in about 800 feet of track 
K) The main reason that we are using the big boys are that USA donated them 
L) the other 44 engines are all brand new USA GP-30's with locolink and 1 volt batterys 

>>>> probably not 1 volt, 12 volt? 

M) for more info and pictures of the Dynamite Rio verde and eastern go to www.ricktherailroadguy.com click on RAILROADS and then 3/4 of the page you will see the dynamite rio verde and eastern. 
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR IDEAS IE DCC, ONE CONTROLER ETC. 

>>> I'd do it the way I first said, although DCC might actually be cheaper and better for later. I could do it either way I suggested. 

Rick told me to post his phone number he would be more then happy to talk the train or anything about trains 
the number is 
602-501-7553 
If there are any questions feel free to call again the number is 
602-501-7553


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By cabforward on 05/06/2008 3:27 PM
I am one of the 15 engeneers in the wolds longest trains. 
From talking to rick and being at the layout to run the train 
A) There is NO way that you could run the train under track power NO mader how many blocks there are. 
B) Tod If you could use blocks how would it be possible to know whick block one of the 44 engines are in to spead it up or slow it down. 
C)And the whole armchair thing that the layout is not in the condition for track power that is not true the layout could be track powered it has rail clamps concret road bed 
D)Tod it takes between halfhour and 45 minutes to get around the layout 
E)Mark it is 75 sets of five car articulated that make a grand total of 395 cars the articulateds let us have one fith the number of coupalers for slack as well as the fact that the middle three cars share one truck 
F)The planning of this thing is through the roof 
G)Greg it is possible for that kind of range you hook the antina to the track 
H) Mark if you were to use a single transmitter it would be 7 amps times 44 equals 308 amps 
I)Greg DCC would not work eather the layout covers almost three acres! 
J)Greg and others the info on the layout is 
3800 feet of track overall 
* 1254 linear feet of track per main and it is a double track main. 
* 91 feet of bridges 
* 95 feet of trestles 
* 78 feet of tunnels 
* 1 city with a streetcar that runs through it separately from the mainline 
* several smaller towns and ranches 
* a pond with a capacity of 12,000 gallons which spills over into a river flowing to a dammed reservoir. 
The one proble are grades we decend 7 feet 6 inches from we exit the train barn to the bottom of the hill in about 800 feet of track 
K) The main reason that we are using the big boys are that USA donated them 
L) the other 44 engines are all brand new USA GP-30's with locolink and 1 volt batterys 
M) for more info and pictures of the Dynamite Rio verde and eastern go to www.ricktherailroadguy.com click on RAILROADS and then 3/4 of the page you will see the dynamite rio verde and eastern. 
IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR IDEAS IE DCC, ONE CONTROLER ETC. 
Rick told me to post his phone number he would be more then happy to talk the train or anything about trains 
the number is 
602-501-7553 
If there are any questions feel free to call again the number is 
602-501-7553 





If the 44 engines are all USA GP-30s and each consist pulls roughly the same number of railcars, just set all block voltages the same and that should be plenty close for government work. Each "consist" should run about the same so I really don't see that as a problem. 

Why would you need to speed up/slow down some relative to the others? Just select a voltage where things could run at a reasonable pace and not jerk the couplers off on the start-up (e.g., 10 volts). No one says things need to speed up/slow down or even run for long just to set a record. 

(We would have loved to attend and help out and were were out on Scottsdale Road past Dynamite Road on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, but were informed that this was a "closed to the public" event.)


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

(We would have loved to attend and help out and were were out on Scottsdale Road past Dynamite Road on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, but were informed that this was a "closed to the public" event.) 




Weren't the previous records done at public exhibits in Europe?


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

It was a closed event but all you had to do was call rick


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark O. 
great loco but no fun,,, its like a bull dozer,, very cool to watch, powerful etc. but try sitting in one and running it for awhile. You are tired and sore after that.


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Greg 
how would you plan to run over 20 pairs of locos


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I proposed 2 solutions. Which do you want to talk about, a cost effective, but sort of "one time" setup, or a more elegant solution that will cost more but add operating potential to this layout? 

By the way, who are you? What are your real names? Your bio is empty. 

Regards, Greg


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Greg 
Please explain your two solutions 
Thanks Matt 
My name is Matthew Abreu And I live in Roseville Calif. 
I have flown down to the run the last two weekends


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, 

Thanks for taking time to comment on the comments. 

395 cars divided by 44 locomotives is 8.9 cars per engine. (but 75 x 5 = 375) Why so much power? Seems like that'd put one pair of GP-30s every 15 or so cars (or between every third set of doublestacks). How often do you see that in the real world? 

Didn't we see Jens Bangs layout running with a 100+ car freight behind a single big boy? From that perspective, wouldn't 3 Big Boys do the trick? With maybe one GP-30 pair in there. 

We all have different experiences with the trains, but 8-9 cars would be a short train, for even the GP30. Maybe there is too much power in the train, and reducing power would result in less potential of pushing cars off, and result in fewer crew member requirements. 

I agree with Greg's track powered solutions. Either one would remove some of the human element that seems to be plauging this project. 

Marty- nice!


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Mark 
I am going to admit that we went a little oveoard on the number of loco's. 
Your right it is 375 cars multiplication eror on my part 
Yes Jens Bangs pulled 100+ cars but since I did my first post the big boys were just for looks/helpers BUT we are no longer going to run them do to the fact that the USA prototype loco that we are running droped its rods on the engeneer side and the other two cant keep there pilots on the track. 
It is now only gp30's 
matt


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Guys 
We are planning to run the train today at 2 PM 
You can watch it online at www.ricktherailroadguy.com clik on watch it live 

We are looking for operators if you are in the scotsdale AZ area 
call rick at 
602-501-7553 
If you want to be part of garden RR history 
Matt


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Good luck, Matt, Rick and all the rest!


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## Art (Jan 3, 2008)

Good luck on the run. I cannot see the need for so much power but that is up to you. I would just use distributed power and let it go. I would imagine 10 locos would do the job. I mean I pull 30 plus with 1 on a good day with 8' diameter turns, not all body couplers, and multiple turns. I would use AirWire as far as I can tell, but then again I really don't know what in the **** I'm talking about. It is a disease I caught from an SD70..... Have fun. 

Art


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Thanks Art 
We need all the luck that we can get. 
You are probably right on the fact that we have so many locos 
The link to the layout is 
http://www.ricktherailroadguy.com/galleries/dynamiterioverde.html 
Matt


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll talk about the DCC solution first. Since this is someone's layout, it might be helpful to invest some money in making the layout more fun to run in other cases. 

I just came back from the convention at Phoenix, and saw Dennis Sirrine's layout. He was going to go battery, and during the tour he ate all the batteries running long trains and lighted cars. 

If it were me, I would run track power DCC. 

The layout we are talking about here could handle this. I would buy 10 amp or greater boosters, and create several blocks that would not exceed the booster rating. If money was no object, there are 25 amp DCC boosters. I would think that the mainline could be "cut" into 4-6 sections with a booster each. 

You then run a interconnection wire between them to a single command station. Since most of these systems use RS485 for communication on the "command bus", you have no problem with the wire length. 

Now you have a DCC system that can control EVERY locomotive on the main line from a single point. You use DCC consisting to control ALL the locomotives with a single consist address. You can speed match all the locomotives to EXACTLY the same speeds so you could mix any locomotive types. This is all standard DCC stuff. 

Now to have more fun, you want wireless control. So you use the NCE wireless throttles. You can connect up to 32 wireless "base stations". The new cabs have a range of over 50 feet easily. With this range and 32 base stations, you would have wireless control everwhere. Again, the wiring between the base stations is based on RS485, so wire length is not an issue. (A singel RS485 run can be around 1,000 foot). 

So, a simple, easy to set up, off the shelf solution that gives you wireless independent control of locomotives and the ability to combine ALL the locomotives into a single consist. 

Easy. 

Regards, Greg


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Greg 
Thank you for your ideas and comments . 
If we were going to do it over again we might take that into concideration. 
Do to the fact that all of the loco have allready been converted to locolink and 18volt batteries. 
Matt


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

guys 
I pill post a update on the run as soon as it is over 
Matt


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ouch... no offense to Locolinc, but no way does it have the range to control all the locos from one point. How many different cabs does it take to drive the train? It's got to be around 4 or more, although maybe you can have 3 groups of locos... I would guess that 5 groups of locos would be the sweet spot in terms of distributing power. 

One thing not mentioned is minimum curve radius (but I'm sure it is broad), and max grades and how many. Just curious. 

Good Luck! 

p.s. I guess the questions and suggestions about "how to do it" were merely an exercise? You state that you have Locolinc and imply you won't change. I won't waste time with other solutions, and Locolinc is not a solution I would have picked for this.


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

Good Looking Live Feed, hope to see some movement soon! 

Battery Power was first to ever run LS Train at North Pole (with RCS)...and now this for world record...cool! 

cale


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

OOOOOH! there is sound!


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

yeah, he just said call him to check in...I'm curious when 2 pm is....here or there...if so I got some time to wait!


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh crap! I didn't even think about the time difference! LOL. 

I'm flirting with danger jsut having the screen up here at work! LOL. 

I'm certainly NOT calling him from work.


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

dang that nearly made me sick, it now appears I'm watching the train barn?....what a great freakin' web feed!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Watching now... about 30 cars and then things stop moving... he was pushing/guiding each container car by hand... maybe too much load... then after 30 cars went by, they stopped.... he rolled the cars back and forth, so obviously they were no longer connected to a locomotive... 

I see the geeps, he was running 2 independently, so they have different addresses, so I assume they are consisting. What's the max number of locos in a Locolinc consist? 

Looks like coupler troubles... what couplers are they using? (I'm guessing USAT, since all the locos and cars are USAT.. ) 

Looks like it is Rick himself, smoking a big cigar. (a man after my own heart!) 

Oops, took the locos away after testing 2 of them. Ahh, 2 more geeps on the track. These 2 already consisted. OK, off the track. 

2 more geeps on the track, testing... 

Well, I don't think any records are going to be broken today... 

Regards, Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Is anyone else able to understand the speach on the feed? All I get is a LOUD sylable and then some very quiet mumbling. 

I think I caught part of a sentence where he gave a phone number (I think it began with a 3, but the rest of it was totally unintelligable) and the words, "Call me!". I also heard something about, "Be --ck -- --elve minut--." and the fellow speaking walk off the the left. 

Sometimes, I think I hear a train rolling, but it is just a racious rattling... sounds very much like a pressed steel kitchen stool being shoved across a hardwood floor and somebody forgot to tighten any of the nuts and bolts that hold it together. 

Maybe it is just my PC speakers (they blew out the other day and I am now using a set of MP-3 battery powered extension speakers plugged into the earphone socket).


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes....the sound does break up some. Worse for me, the video stream seems to kill the cursor control tapping away. I can still use the buttons...but the tap function stops working. Weird....


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Watch it here


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I think he doesn't have enough operators--I heard him just now say something about looing for "eagle scouts" and talking baout kids getting out of school. 

he's fiddling with the diesels 

I think the German record holders are not worried today


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, sound "gain" is either mumble, dead quiet, or loud distorted.... he just walked through and said "wow, I'm up to 21 people"... 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

also if you go to this like you can comment and sometimes get replies 

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/worlds-longest-model-train


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

Greg on his website, Kadee is mentioned as coupler used? 

cale


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Cale... I need to read the whole site (oops!). 

Sure seems to be spending all the time on locos... a bit of logistics keeping 44 locos all at full charge! 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

How do you keep 44 locos charged? 44 chargers? Or is there some way to link them? Just the space required alone is huge


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

Rick, if you are reading our post...a wireless Mic would be wonderful for those of us watching on the web! 
thanks-keep it up! 

"if we get 18 volunteers, we're gonna run this freakin' thing" 
Cale


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been watching this on and off for a couple days, and it just seems pretty clear this is a crazy way to try to do it. 18 operators? It's just too many variables. One guy's not paying attention and boom, you're derailed. And 44 sets of batteries--what are the odds they'll all be fully charged? I think Greg has the right idea


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

now there are dancing chicks on the screen...........


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

"start rolling in about a minute and a half"


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Did he say they had a fire in a locomotive???


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I saw a long train of cars moving, and then the fellow came and stood in front of the camera and said a long speach that was totally unintellegable. What'd he say?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The heck with that stuff... where did the girl in the jeans and the green top go? 

Greg


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

Greg............


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## Guest (May 7, 2008)

good deal of movement now...that's a bunch of cars! 
GO Rick and GO BATTERY POWER! 
sorry, got a little wound up>of course that'd be clockwork...nvrmnd


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

We have movement


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

GUys 
The web feed is not the best the are using a antina on a 20 foot pole 
I have to admit on the deralling thing we have had people not paying attention 
On the charging deal the train barn has 6 tracks on each side 30 feet long the four front track on each side of plugs poking through that are hooked to 4 18 volt power packs 
Matt


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg... It was great talking with you at Duncan's. Thanks so much for the information. 

I was out at the RR on Friday, April 25th helping setup the first 15 container sets. We had 75 standard container cars plus a 4 car set of "intermediary" or spacer sets. All cars had Kadee 830 body mounts. 

The 75+ car train rolled very nicely without any locomotives. The 830 coupler slack clatter was awesome. As I moved the train by hand and as the slack was taken up, I could feel the train getting heavier and heavier. 

Getting the containers and cars together. 
Two GP-38 long test train. 
Image of Dan Hoag's 5 car set as they were about 8th or so in the consist order.


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

stan 
thank you for posting the pics 
matt


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

So what happened today? I missed all the action


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Today was a no go 
Matt


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Somebody out there please call 
Rick 
602-501-7553


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, 

Somebody? 

I watched today...it was great watching the tension mount...and then the first train pulled out....then the second. Each was loooooooooooooooong. We could tell from the commentary before the run that the plan was to run all 22 trains on like a 30 second headway to make sure each was performing well...before he hooked em all together for the world record attempt. 

Then something happened off to the left. We don't know what though. When Rick came back into the train storage building, he said something (I thought he said fire....) and that the event was over for the day. 

Frankly...it was at first like watching paint dry...but you could TELL folks were excited...and it was infectious to all. Especially for the lady engineers we saw. THEY WERE EXCITED at being able to participate. When the camera was moved outside, you could tell there was a fair amount of FAST WALKING going on by Rick...in the heat....then the shout...then all stopped...then a rapid communication towards the camera...which was mostly unintelligable. 

Slower talking....more deliberate discription of what is happening...standing close to the camera with the microphone (or using a lapel mic as was suggested)...all would help those of us not fortunate enough to be there. The EFFORT being applied is obvious...and I laud all for it. 

When is the next attempt????? Time and date?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

As I look at the photos in Stans post, my first thought is: must be nice to not have dirt, weeds, moles, wild grass. I hate yard work this time of year.


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Mike 
It was another derailment 
I dont know and checked with Rick the whole FIRE thing is JUST a rumer there was no fire 
Maybe STEAM 

Mike, Greg 
I just want to let you know the "Chicks" will be back tomarow and Friday 

THe next attempt is Friday after 2 PM 
Rick is certain that it will happen friday 
Matt


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Can I ask a dumb question? Why not use all the power on the head end and the rear. Instead of trying to make up multipule consists stick with 2. I know I can pull 34 boxcars up a 4% grade for 150' (TOC's layout) with only GP9. So why all the power? It seems that all the excess power is causing all the problems. Stan, now you know what it's like to be a 'real life' hoghead. Just multiple the the wieght by tons, and that's what we RR's deal with everyday!


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

The problem with having the engines in one or two spots we tied it is the strane on the couplers. The cars want to continue strat and not take the curves 

For those who are wondering the smallest curve is 16 radious 32 diamater 
Matt


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting, all are body mounts? Would think this would be just fine with 50 cars. 

I have 10' diameter and pulled 40 cars on the flat with 2 USAT F units. All Kadee 830's also. 

Runs at full tilt. 

Maybe something else is not right. 

The grades are gentle? 

Regards, Greg


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Greg the steppest grade is going downhill three percent uphill 2.6 
matt


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

So I missed all the action and the lady engineers? Bummer? Had to leave work and then got tied up doing thing around the house so I never turned this on at home. Friday? Shoot I won't be able to watch then either. 

Chas


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## Guest (May 8, 2008)

I'll be on the air then, maybe I can watch while in studio?


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

So, What happened, Did they give up?


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Update 
today was just a pactice day to et all the loss ends together we are confident that we will be able to do it tomarow 
matt


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

The train is all ready togo after 2PM tomarow 
Rick is trying to get as meany people there as possible there will be free beer, wire, champagne if we get the record and those dancing chicks you keep talking about he will even give away World longest model train shirts and hats so you can remember that you were part of history 

So Stan, Garret, any body that is in the state and wants to be part of History of Garden RR 
Call rick 
602-501-7553 
It is well worth the drive or flight just to see the layout 
Rick will get to the layout about 11AM 
Rick would be more then extatic if you could come 
Thanks 
Matt


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## Guest (May 9, 2008)

OK, so here I am....1557 EST...watching again, no Beer or Chicks needed, just wanna see some trains movin"!!!!


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

The trains will move bettween 3-4 rick had to pick people up at the airport 
Matt


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By calenelson on 05/09/2008 1:52 PM 
OK, so here I am....1557 EST...watching again, no Beer or Chicks needed, just wanna see some trains movin"!!!!

welcome to one of the 5-6 people watching like watching hair grow!!!! dust settle like that. I did see something run accross the view of the camera from a bush on the right side of camera to accross the tracks, and into the bush on the other (left) side!!!! ACTION!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif" border=0>


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

If you are one of the few guys watching if you have any questions about what is going on or time feel free to call rick 
602-501-7553 
matt


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## Guest (May 9, 2008)

Posted By cabforward on 05/09/2008 3:03 PM 
If you are one of the few guys watching if you have any questions about what is going on or time feel free to call rick 
602-501-7553 
matt

Just sitting around watching GOD-tv and Ricks live feed online...and thought, what the heck, I'll give the guy a call, encourage him, let him know we're pulling for him, and maybe find out how soon something should happen...Nice dude....says there should be loco placement in about 15 to 30 min then trying a run about 1 to 1.5 hours from NOW. That would be 1645 his time...anyways, I wished him well and hope I'm still avail to see it happen! 
cale


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Talked to Rick personally earlier, said going for the record today, helper is now moving diesels two at a time out to the front! Should be happening within the hour i would venture a guess. The Regal" border=0> 14 watchers at this time it is 5:38 mtn standard time here


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

the train has left the station


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

can't do it with two people, four people, or 7 people. He says he needs 18 people. . . And he is out of time.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

says its a no go has to be in Chicago in the morning by the time he gets back too hot will try again in October he says. The Regal/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif


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## bobgrosh (Jan 2, 2008)

giving up, will try again in october


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Talked to Rick personally today Sat the 10th leaving for Chicago in the morning, he said if i could convey one thing to all of us guys, is to not lose hope on this world record attempt,says "he knows it can be done"! and if at all possible "Light a fire under everyone" to hopefully get on board with this thing which he said he would try again in October, and get more volunteers, out there to help him with this effort!! Said he had a lot of commitments from people to show up and help and it didn't come together the way it was planned. So if you can free yourself up for October he said to give him a call personally at 1-602-501-7553 and make a commitment, and then follow through with that commitment and show up to help out in October. He's there today to kind of wrap up things and leaving in the morning for Chicago. Maybe get ahold of him closer to October to help out. The Regal/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Regal 
Great Wrap up could not have said it better myself 
See you in october 
Matt


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Matt talked to rick today again gave him some words of encouragement, and he told me October he would make it happen, and for me to just try to get some fires lit to get people out there committed to helping him make next attempt a success. Just got a nice email from his wife, and will try to help them whatever way i am able to. I would like to be there in person if possible in October, don't know if that will come to fruition but will try to help from here and try to be there. The Regal


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Still maintain to make it one throttle, one operator, and fewer locos... 

We will see. 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Quote: "Still maintain to make it one throttle, one operator, and fewer locos... " 


Sounds like the makings of the ultimate DCC vs Battery challenge to me! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 

Keith 

P.S. I think DCC is the way to go for coordinating the locos...but it might get interesting if they all had back-emf turned on!


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## Guest (May 12, 2008)

Welp ive been staying out of this one till now but,/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif if the locos were DCSpowered you could run far more locos with less amps as DCS draws far less amps then any other system ive seen..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif I think Rays 5 Dashs COULD GIVE IT A GO.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 
Nick..


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm coming to this rather late. I guess my question would be, "Why try this attempt on track that has grades? Is there a requirement to be met? If I recall a post correctly, there was 2% plus grades??!! With that many engines and cars, with sloping curves, with multiple operators anf a world record at stake one would think that 0% wouldbe the only acceptable grade!


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I geuss my other question would be is he willign to add even more cars to the consist? As I recall he was asking for help with getting more cars involved? I know, I know, I should call right? 

Chas


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Chas 
Yep go ahead and give him a call 
If you have any ideas or comments go ahead and give him a call 
Matt


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm really not trying to make it a battery vs. track power vs. xyz system. I think though that having 22 people trying to MANUALLY coordinate their section of the train is just a no-win situation. 

If I was to do this, I would probably go DCC only because the track is capable of being powered and has rail clamps throughout, and DCC is made to run consists of multiple locos easily and it has easy to use speed matching. 

So, no personal irons in the fire, but I'd like to see it succeed no matter what the method. 

Regards, Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

In the real (1:1) world of yore, before the MU'ing of Diesels, a few trains ran with many separate crews handling a locomotive each (1, 2 or 3 at the head end, one or two cut into the train somewhere along the length, and another 1, 2 or 3 on the tail end) and they did it by paying close attention to their steed, the present state of the train and the intended state (moving or stopped) as dictated by whistle signals from the lead engine. 

The only problem with doing it via remote contolled locos is that the "Engineer" cannot sense in his body the state of the train. There is only the visual sense and no "Seat of the pants" sense. Without the physical feel of things the reaction time to control the loco is very if'fy at best. Each Engineer will have to forego watching the rest of the train to "see" (and enjoy/celebrate) the record being broken, but will have to watch the front coupling of their "power" to acertain the state of the train and their locomotive(s). 

The moment their attention is distracted from the job at hand there WILL BE a problem. No doubt about it.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like to many operator and not great running conditions. To many locos and not even spaced where they need to be. Man what mess. Later RJD


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## tweave (Jan 9, 2008)

Seems that Rick and his helpers are locked into an approach without fully considering alternatives that would in all likelyhood yield better results. I've been running l-o-n-g trains for years. Here's what works for me: One operator, not 18. Numerous observers, linked to the one operator via two-way headsets. Their job is to report issues, not to control a locomotive. They are the operators extra eyes and ears. Use Aristo locomotives, they draw half as many amps as USA Trains engines. A single RS-3 pulls 30 cars easily. A single SD-45 pulls 60 cars easily. Use 8 SD-45's, not 44, to pull 395 cars. And space them one per each 50 cars. I don't understand why so many engines are being used. A single SD-45 weighs 15 pounds and will exert 4 pounds tractive effort on the coupler, more than enough to pull 50 cars. Feed all the locomotives from the track, using an Aristo Elite or Bridgewerks power supply. (My personal railroad used the TE system, where I enjoyed range of control around 250 feet, but for this attempt I would avoid using any wireless control system as it will be too unreliable over the extended distances of this large layout. We know Airwire range is too limited, look at the problems Dennis was having. The TE ranges are sometimes limited due to self induced electrical noise from the motors affecting the on-board receiver. Ditto for Locolinc and RCS.) For this attempt, a tethered throttle that can handle 15 amps or so should be used for controlling power to the rails. The train needs to be started up v-e-r-y slowly to avoid coupler separations, and that can best be done by a single operator, not 18. With 18 operators walking around with 18 Locolincs, one guy will inevitably mow a bunch of cars off the rails with a helper running too strong, or stringline a bunch of cars off the rails with a lead engine running too strong. I can't emphasize too strongly, one operator for the entire train, and all the engines being controlled in unison. DCC is nice, but this attempt can be done without the expense and complexity of DCC. Batteries are nice, but keeping 44 sets of batteries charged is too much extra work. 8 engines, each pulling 50 cars, all coupled together, drawing about 15 amps total, simple and straightforward. 
Tom Weaver


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the USAT locos were all free, so they are stuck there. Also, I'm reading between the lines, the number of locos used, if much less than the number requested, might not be a thing to be aired in public. 

I completely agree with your statements Tom, and I did notice Dennis running after trains at his place... seems they do not have the loco antenna problem down yet. 

Regards, Greg


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