# Uintah gilsonite trucks



## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

I have a LGB Uintah mallet and am not sure what type of ore trucks they used to haul gilsonite.
Have found several referances via web but no mention of the type of ore car they used.

trucks, hoppers, cars whatever...

Anyone familiar?

Andrew


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Take a look at: http://home.bresnan.net/~bpratt15/index.htm 

The "short history" page mentions that the Gilsonite ore was hauled in 100+ pound burlap sacks on open flatcars. Many of the available photos show long trains of flatcars, and the railroad apparently had 71 flats, more than any other type car, at its peak. 

Matthew (OV)


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

There you go ... 

I do need to ask the correct question ! 
Flatcars and sacks, no wonder I havn't found any mention of hoppers etc. 

Thanks for the quick response 
Gee they did it hard in the ol days. 

Andrew


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Gilsonite is a naturally occurring asphalt. It looks a lot like coal. Instead of being in flat seams that conform the the sedimentary beds above and below as coal does, gilsonite occurs in veins that cut up and across the rocks. I don't know a lot about gilsonite, but I think that its source is some of the oil shale that occurs in the deeper parts of the basin.  The oil shale gets heated due to deep burial and the kerogen in the shale is converted to a heavy crude that migrates up section and solidifies. 
 
Shortly after the LGB Uintah Mallets came out, a small company in Pine, Colorado, "Depot G" came out with a load of sacks to be used on the Uintah flat cars.  They also produced a Uintah water car.  Unfortunately, my gilsonite loads and water car are now in Arizona, otherwise I could post some pictures.


Chuck


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I just remembered that I had taken some pictures on my Arizona train. We have a covered patio out there so I can set up a temporary loop so that I can get my FIX while we are out there.

Here are some pictures that show my Uintah train with water car and gilsonite loads. You have to look carefully in the second picture to see the water car and the gilsonite loads. The gilsonite sacks show up a little better in the last picture.


































I took a lot of my LGB out there so I would have something to run. Here in Virginia I run mostly 1:20.3 and Standard gauge (1:29).

Chuck N

PS If you are really interested in the Uintah, a company called Machines of Iron produced a video tape in 2000 "The Uintah Railway". The tape is about 45 minutes long and it has a lot of information about the Uintah. The pictures and movies are all B&W. I don't know if it is still available or can be purchased on DVD. I enjoy it, I think that it is worth having.


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

A picture fills the story in my head. 
Now I know how to dress up my mallet. 

I hink I remember the Depo G ads now.
I wouldn't have had the Mallet at that stage.
I might have an old copy of it somewhere.

Thanks Chuck 

Andrew


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

The gilsonite sacks can also be used as sand bags,









and/or grain/flour sacks.









Rail Plaques was the last known vendor to carry these castings and you have to get hold of them and specifically ask for the gilsonite sacks.


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anyone know why this stuff was shipped in sacks instead of in bulk? Seems like a lot of work, particularly if it could have been transloaded from NG to SG hoppers at the interchange point..... 

Matthew (OV)


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Matthew: 

That's a very good question. I don't have a definite answer, but it might be that the end user needed it in smaller amounts. At the time it was mined, it was used as an asphalt substitute. In fact it may have preceded asphalt derived from oil. My guess is that it was used for roofs and early paved roads. I could be all wrong, it wouldn't be the first time. 

Chuck 

PS: I have been giving your question a little more thought since I first tried to answer it. Somewhere in the deep dark recesses of my mind, whats left, I think I remember that bagging the gilsonite may have been part of fire prevention. Gilsonite is flammable, hot cinders from the stack landing on a hopper or gondola filled with loose gilsonite could catch fire quite quickly. With the bags it would take a while for a hot cinder to burn through the bag. It would give the train crew time to throw off a few smouldering bags and prevent the whole car or train from catching on fire.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I think in the Short History it says it's powdery, it would blow out of an open hopper. Out west we get strong winds blowing down canyons and over passes. Back east flour was bagged, probably a carry over.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Here are a couple of links that I found that talk about gilsonite it's occurrence and uses .

http://www.zieglerchemical.com/gilsonit.htm

This site from Wikipedia shows picture of a vein (black fracture filling in forground) of gilsonite


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilsonite

I'll try to get in contact with some other retired geologists at the US Geological Survey who may have had some experience in the Gilsonite producing area of the Uintah Basin (southeastern Utah). If I learn anything new "I'll be back".


Chuck


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## bruja (Jan 7, 2008)

Gilsonite was shipped in burlap sacks weighing nearly 200 pounds with a normal loaded flat car carrying 180 sacks (Ref. Polley, Vol. 1 pp 54 and 98). Trains were limited to five loaded flat cars because of the 5% grade climbing the north side of Baxter Pass, even with the articulateds (articulateds were rated at 90 tons for the 5% grade (Polley, vol 2, p 52); each flat car carried 18 tons so 5 cars would be 90 tons). Part of the reason for using sacks was variation in quality of ore. Depending on its use, some of which was for black pigment in Ford's model T, the mineral could loaded by desired quality and quantity. Two authors have written excellent books on the railway: Henry Bender. Jr. "Uintah Railway"; and Rodger Polley "Uintah Railway Pictorial", a two volume set of exceptional high quality.


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## mtchaney (Jan 2, 2008)

lurk mode \off 


I found references in Henry Bender's book describing why gilsonite was shopped in sacks.

A text reference states "large burlap sacks of the mineral were hoisted from the depths of the vein where they had been filled, and loaded onto push-cars, which were then run out along a platform adjacent to the railroad. The sacks weighing from 150 to 200 pounds each were then slid down a plank onto the waiting flatcars." Also, there is a photo showing two men hoisting a sack of gilsonite out of a vein. Finally, another photo shows men with their equipment, including empty burlap sacks and twine to sew them up, preparing to enter a shaft.


Lack of money on the Uintah's part seems to be a common thread in Mr. Bender's book, so it seems like they just manually loaded the ore rather than invest in costly machinery to mine the mineral.


As a footnote to the book, Mr. Bender indicates that today the mineral is pulverized in the ground, extracted and shipped as a slurry via pipeline to the refinery where it is re solidified and processed.

Mick Chaney


lurk mode \on


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Maybe the gilsonite was more or less graded as sacked depending on the worked deposit. 
I guess at the other end it went straight to the particular industry depending on grade as it probably has many domestic uses.
Plenty of hungry labour around.

Andrew


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

I would tend to bet that the main reason why the Gilsonite (Uintaite) was shipped in sacks had more to do with its purity as mined more than anything else. Much like the high-grade copper ore from the Kennecott mine in Alaska.

http://books.google.com/books?id=dkkLAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA162&dq=gilsonite&lr=

http://books.google.com/books?id=iLcQAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA340&dq=gilsonite&lr=#PPA340,M1


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## Robbie Hanson (Jan 4, 2008)

If you're modeling Uintah flatcars, recall that they had high-mounted air brake hoses to avoid condensation freezing in them in the winter. 

Everything they owned had them; mounted on a post 18 inches high on the ends of the car.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Robbie: 

You are correct. The LGB flats didn't have any air hoses, high mounted or normal location, I probably should add some. The Depot G water cars did have the high mounted air hoses. 

Chuck


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## bruja (Jan 7, 2008)

Andrew, Further research confirms your hypothesis. Polley writes: "It was here (Black Dragon Mine) in the early years that the Uintah Railway experimented with transporting the black hydrocarbon that had been mined in loose form. Although it took fewer man hours to pack it in bags and ttransfer it to standard-gauge cars, it soon was found impractical for at least two reasons . First and foreost was the fact the Gilsonite could have different chemical properties, depending on where it was found in the vein. This, in turn, created a quality scale, which buyers used to determine its chemical use and therefore its value. Bagging it at the mine by its content was the only sure way of defining its chemical properties and value. Of a more practical matter for the railway was the increased risk of fire, associated with the transportation of the highly flammable ore to Mack, the Uintah terminal on the D&RG. These two factors resulted in the total cessation of loose-ore transportation by 1910." Volume 1, p 14. Also, "In any case, the Gilsonite mines and industries they supplied became increasingly choosy about the grades of ore that were coming out of the mines, and eventually, market forces and the increased distance in the mines from the ore face to the rail head conspired to end all transportation of Gilsonite in loose form." Volume 1, p 58. Incidently, the Uintah gondolas were only 26' long, 6' shorter than similar D&RG cars and used levers instead of chains to operate the bottom dump doors.


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## Greg Vocks (Jan 2, 2008)

Reading this thread sparked my curiosity, so I got out my volume of "Asphalt and Allied Substances" (written 1918) and started reading about the Gilsonite mines. Wow, those guys worked hard. The following comes from the book: 
The miners work downward at a slope of about 60 degrees. After reaching a predetermined depth, they go back to the top and mine another layer several feet thick. As the gilsonite is removed the walls are braced by timber. The gilsonite is dug from the face of the slope, rolled down to the bottom, sacked and hoisted out. The hoisting is done by horses at shallow levels, but when the mine becomes over 200 feet deep, machinery must be used. 
The mines were so dusty that they could not use air tools because the dust would get into the tools, mixing with the oil in the mechanisms and interfere with the operation, so work was done with pick and shovel. One man can (could) mine and sack 2 tons of Gilsonite in an average 10 hour day. The dust was so inflammable that expolsions have occurred by a chain dropping into a pit and striking agianst the rocky walls and causing sparks. 
Gilsonite (also known as Uintaite) was marketed in three grades: "selects" (or "firsts"), "seconds" and "jet." "Jets" were used chiefly in the highest grades of baking enamels and japans. 

Gilsonite is used principally as follows: 
Manufacture of paints, lacquers and japans 
Battery boxes 
Asphalt floor tiles (usually mixed with fatty-acid pitch) 
Mineral rubber 
Brake linings (asbestos-impregnated.) 
Printing inks, particularly rotogravure (dissolved in turpentine and xylol)


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Just for the heck of it, why don't you try clicking the second link in my previous reply.


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