# Charlies comments on the hobby



## adir tom (Dec 4, 2011)

At the Springfield show I talked with Charlie about Aristro. He surprized me with the comment" I was disappointed when Lewis decided to close. It takes all of to keep the hobby going. I like post WWII and even more modern cars. Lewis liked WWI to WWII vintage and Bachmann had the pre 1900 and narrow gauge market. We met everyones needs. Now without Aristro there is a gap." He further noted Scott had a big uphill climb. He is attempting to start a company from scratch (economically) when the market is seeing no growth .He did not expect Scott to have the more expensive items (engines, heavy wieght and stream line passenger cars) for a long time. With that in mind and I am sure he was concerned about rolling stock for his Hudson, PA and Big Boy when he inquired if he introduced the heavy weights to his product line would there be enough market to justify production. I feel yes if he uses the same road names as he has for his Aluminium cars. Most heavywieghts ran between the large eastern cities and west to the Mississippi carrying sales and businessmen.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Some very insitefull comments coming from a competitor....

I will certainly hope to see one more BIG BOY run in the future...

Dirk


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree that USA re-introducing the Aristo Heavyweights would be a great idea! (if such a thing is even possible)..
For now, (until we hear otherwise) anything is possible..the molds are out there, somewhere..

Scot


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Well if Ro brought out H.W. cars..we might actually be able to get some!!

When was the last time anyone tried to just get a baggage car???

I would hope they might do well...

Dirk


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So...curious here..
Do we live in an age now where we could have heavy weights that are the correct length?
Not selectively compressed.....

Dirk


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

*I would like to see heavyweights again, the size of the Aristo ones seemed ok to me. The choice of roadnames did not. Many of the western roads were left out. There was never GN, NP or CB&Q run. This left a gap of the whole Midwest to The Pacific Northwest part of the country. At prices being what they are today, I won't buy SF and re-letter. Too much work for the cost. I already did almost the whole Oriental Limited consist less the parlor car, but would buy another trains worth if offered in Great Northern. A parlor/lounge/smoking car would be nice to see being made. Perhaps Charlie could add this one if he re-runs heavyweights. Also another car that'd be nice to see made was a solarium lounge car. This was like the open platform obs. car, but with the rear platform encloused with large windows like GN's James J Hill car.*


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

The Aristo heavyweights aren't compressed..
The prototype cars came in several different lengths, one of which happened to be 72 feet..which is what Aristocraft modeled..

Scot


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Adir, thanks for the interview! USAt and Aristo were made in the same building, which is now owned by Bachmann. I'm sure the whole aristo closing is just like a divorce as far as who gets what. My guess is that USAt would have to work through Bachmann to produce any old Aristo models. There are alot of molds, so it may be feasible that Bachman farms some or all of to someone else to market and distrubute. With Bachmann now making the Peter Will street trolly in 1/29 you would have to think that they would retain some of the Aristo line and market it Bachmann.


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I think USAT should consider making their own line of classic passenger cars. I like the CNJ cars, but what about Pullman Palace cars, Osgood Bradely lightweights, wooden Laconia's, and, and, and...?


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom,
Was that senior or junior you were talking too? Reintroducing the heavyweights would be good. If they would make a Harriman roof for them they would sell plenty. It would essentially be a new product.


----------



## adir tom (Dec 4, 2011)

Charlie (dad) not Chuck made the comment. He made no discussion as to how he would accomplish it, if he determeined there to be a good market. Buying rights from Lewis, buying from Chinese or Bachmann, or doing an inhouse design and new molds made. I personally doubt the latter. It would take many molds as serveral different cars would have to be built. This would be a very costly endevor for a market(model trains in general) that he acknowledges is currently and for the foreseeable future- flat. But, with Charlie, one never knows. look how he turned a special custom silk screening job into his biggest seller- the "beer" reefers.


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

I would think the only molds that he should re-make would be those for the roof of the car. As pointed out before, there is a higher demand for the harriman (sp?) style roof. Those were found on the later cars just before the light weight cars came out. I think the Harriman version roof cars would be a better seller. AND Charlie will need to make more names other than just SF, PRR, UP and B&O.

Rocky


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

We can hope Rockey! If they run SP it would be nice to get a prototype correct paint job, not a fantasy Daylight heavy weight but the Green SP ran. Was that a Pullman Color that is the same for other roads, Anyone?


----------



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Harriman roofed heavyweights would be great as others have noted! Being an SP modeler, I feel the need as they were abundant in SP's fleet for years.

Heavyweights in Daylight paint were headend cars (postal and or baggage or combinations of both) for the most part, less a few diners, maybe a lounge and a combine if I recall. 

SP's olive drab green was notably different than others, Pullman green coaches... 

Michael


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Ask Charles if he will produce a U.P. northern?


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm glad others would like to see the Harriman roof. I pushed for it evrytime I had contact at shows with the Aristo people. I won't buy anymore existing type heavyweights but I sure would go for a few headend cars with the Harriman.


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

The Harriman would be cheap to produce w/o all the windows. I would go back and retrofit mine also! How many other roads ran that type of a smooth/rounded roof?


----------



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Pete,

Copied from info online;

60-ft Harriman Coaches

Introduced in 1906, just before Henry Ford made his famous model "T" automobile, these cars were the defining characteristics of steam passenger trains for the Union Pacific, the Illinois Central, the Southern Pacific and other associated railroads. For the traveling public, they were a step up from wooden coaches that would break like a match stick in the event of a derailment. So durable were these all steel cars that some lasted until 1968 ... A life-span of 60 years!

The great Edward Henry Harriman who controlled the Chicago & Alton Railroad, the Union Pacific, the Southern Pacific, the Illinois Central, the Central of Georgia, the Pacific Mail Steamship Company, Wells Fargo Express Company, directed the development of the "Common Standard Specifications" among the Associated Lines. The Common Standard allowed common specifications of parts, and allowed for car and locomotive design and maintenance to be shared with all Harriman-controlled railroads. This allowed economical bid prices due to the sheer size of standardized orders. Further, it allowed the Harriman-controlled railroads to standardize on part inventories and methods for car repair. These cars were designed with the distinctive arched roof and diamond underframe crossbearers, a departure from the clerestory roof design.

Developed by the Associated Lines for all Harriman controlled roads, these wide window coaches seated 68 passengers on Hale and Kilburn reversible seats. These C-4 (Common Standard Specifications CS 217) cars were built by Pullman 1909 to 1912 and numbered 395 cars. The purchase price for one of these Harriman Coaches in 1911 was $12,161.

Michael


----------



## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

If Charlie was to make them he would have to decide whch roadnames would sell the most. Some roadnames might never be made as they could not sell enough to justify the costs of making them. The same goes for any prime movers (Diesel or steam) that he might make. If not we will end up with short run brass and metal units like the Hudson.
Regards,
LAO


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, Kader owns:
Bachmann
Sanda Kan
The Aristo Molds (or at least has possession of them)​Bachmann does not "own" anything.

The decision of what to do with the molds seems to be up to Kader since Aristo did not chortle over saving the molds for later. (Sorry, but there's been enough chest thumping for several decades)

You need to remember Kader decides what Bachmann will do, and Kader is a large company who is responsible for decisions like buying Sanda Kan, and then dumping many of their smaller customers. (Ask some smaller train manufacturers, like Micro Trains (one of the Kadee brothers) locomotives.

So Bachmann may want to enter the market or not, but it won't be without approval from the mother ship, Kader. And Bachmann by themselves cannot "get" the molds in a similar fashion.

Greg



Esppe Pete said:


> Adir, thanks for the interview! USAt and Aristo were made in the same building, which is now owned by Bachmann. I'm sure the whole aristo closing is just like a divorce as far as who gets what. My guess is that USAt would have to work through Bachmann to produce any old Aristo models. There are alot of molds, so it may be feasible that Bachman farms some or all of to someone else to market and distrubute. With Bachmann now making the Peter Will street trolly in 1/29 you would have to think that they would retain some of the Aristo line and market it Bachmann.


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Greg, THanks for the clarification. I understood there was a parent company and was using Bachmann with the presumtion that Kader would use them to Label/market Aristo molds if they did not/cannot(because of whatever rights might be held by Polks. or creditors) use the Aristo name. 
Is it correct that they basically control USAt production and that is why we are only seeing USAt producing thier domestically mfgd product right now?
What do you think Kader will do? Will they employ the Bachmann label, new label, sell to USAt, sell to highest bidder (possible Scott Polk) ?


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Surely you jest here...

Scott Polk..
....highest bidder

Personally ...I don't see the two together in the same sentence...
My 2 cents here....

Dirk


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Dirk, I have no Idea of what Scott's finances are or ability to raise capital. Someone suggested he was flush, that could have been a joke, but I hope Scott is the only one who knows that info! From what I understand dealing with Kandra, it's all cash up front to produce, "no more Hong Kong financing for you"! Again, I think it is obvious why AML is dominating 1/29 production and products announcement. They control thier own destiny! Own thier Factory, control thier own production and quality control and seam to be good to thier retailers. I think the SD9 is going to be a Huge Hit for them if the quality of the GP60 is equal or better than USAt & Aristo. Lack of production has created a marketplace of high margin for producers, and they are the only game in town!


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

It's fun to speculate...
But I think we are left with little but to move forward in our hobby in today's market...
It is and will be tuff for producers..
It is also tuff for us collectors that want the product...
However..a wise company might consider slowly moving forward...now..so as to be in a position to sell product..as the world's economy at least improves...
AML ..may be doing this...??

That said I think it really is time to move forward and leave Scott & Aristo Craft in the past..that door has closed....
It is time to get back to our hobby..
And ..I like and agree with what you said just above!!

Back to trains Guys!!!

Dirk


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Dirk, When collecting trains, Patience has always been a great virtue and I agree with letting go of Aristo, while thanking them for creating a market for affordable g scale mainline. I think that marketplace will provide great oppertunitys for 1/29ers going forward. Back to trains indeed!


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

So who here has Charlies ear enough to maybe get him to consider the hybrid Aristo heavyweight with the Harriman roof? I can sure envision some full baggage and rpo's.


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Paul, From talk here, it seam consciencous feels that not much is coming out of China from the Kader Plant for the short term, and where the rights to produce Aristo's molds lands is probably at the will of Kader. Charlie at USAt also might be having problems with Kader as they have no product annoucments from that plant, Just their domestic line. You would probably be better of talking to someone at Bachmann about heavyweight production, and I don't know anyone there.


----------



## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

After following Aristocraft and also the USA Train group a couple of things that I see. Aristocraft made all sorts of announcements then canceled, delayed etc etc.
The product they made was alright (some really bad quality control on some), and now with Scott that NextGen would be up by end of January and still nothing seems like the same trend. It makes me reluctant to trust the company or its successors. 

Aristocraft to me, went too many directions, steel rail, aluminum rail, brass rail, standard and euro and so on. It seemed they ignored their rolling stock line (there was a lot of interest in the cylindrical hopper). USA trains built up its rolling stock, passenger equipment, and mostly popular locomotive line, a basic brass track line. It was a slow steady thing. 

Now from the info that has been on the USA trains fan site is that Ro is not without its mistakes. The PA from those that talked to Charile Sr was that it was not the seller they were expecting (no reruns planed), most people just got the F3 for the streamliners. The diecast prestige line is another that did not sell like they were hoping. The S4 switcher is another one that was not as good a seller either. So basically, some mistakes which financially hurt and along with market slowdown means less stuff. Supposedly though Ro/USA trains is still thinking of new product just not as fast. A 2-bay covered hopper and possibly another locomotive is coming along.

I think Accucraft with its AML cars (PS2 hopper and Bethgon) got a lot of attention and they are now moving forward in that market. So now perhaps they are finally dusting off the old GP60/M and maybe just maybe they saw how much people got upset at Aristo for the SD9 and it is on their drawing board.


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Lorna, sounds like logic to me, and yae the SD9 has been the ghost machine of Aristo, yes, no, maybe, later, then the end. I also think thier quality became more of an issue when they raised prices in a recession. Folks were like, "you want more, fine, but don't make me fix stuff or have problems. Water under the truss, it will be intresting to see what of the old Aristo molds gets made first and by who!


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

USA T has the 2-bay covered center flow hopper...ready..

As of mid 2009..it was seen at the Denver convention in numbers..
I have pix of them..

But the box art work has languished some what..
no box..
No price ..
not on store shelves....

I think most companies make good and bad sellers...just life..its OK..
...except when the poor market is unable to cover the weak products..
Hard to guess..
Really hope they can maintain their freight car line..
Would luv to see one more run of BigBoys...!!

We need to be supportive of our producers in Gscale..
But who do they listen too......

Dirk


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe it is difficult to make a profit in large scale right now... I fully respect USAT being careful they don't go the way of Aristo.

That said, I likewise applaud AML pursuing 1:29 and continuing to bring out new products.

Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Greg. It is a tough time in our hobby. My problem is that I have pretty much everything I think I want. I'm not really in the market for anything new. It would have to be something new and special for me to get much new product. I could be tempted with some late stream, such as a mountain or northern. Plastic, not die cast. I have a GG1 and a Hudson. They are on the heavy side.

Chuck


----------



## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

I am doing narrow guage, but have to admit the GP60M will be a must hsve


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

Smart folks plan ahead...
This is set aside for MY SD-9s from AML.










Those are rolls of the golden dollar coins. About 1200 bucks in this car. I've been getting rolls little by little and setting them aside for a number of years. I have more too, but these are just for the first 3 SD-9 units I am waiting for.

Rocky


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Rocky, So that's how you become an "Empire Builder"! Haulin Coin! What is you track ballast in that shot?


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

It's mixed chicken Grit. 2 parts "Gran-I-grit grower" and 1 part "Mana pro"

Rocky


----------

