# Interesting read....



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Has anybody checked out the "Guide to QSI for Idiots" thread? Four pages so far trying to help another MLS'r who can't get his DCC system up and running. Plenty of experienced help but it looks as if there was a manufacturer's glitch with the decoder. Go figure. The thing that caught my attention was all the hoops you had to jump through just to make the darn thing work! Makes me happy that I stayed with r/c battery power!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, he guessed he had a bad decoder right off the bat. 

Instead of assuming the product was bad, he tried everything else first and checked with others. 

But the world of electronics is daunting to many at first, documentation seems to be written by engineers, not people trying to help others, I will definitely give you that! 

Regards, Greg


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,
My personal "jury" is still out on the DCC thing. Like you, I lean towards the battery RC system. I like gadgets including electronic ones, which makes the whole QSI system intriguing, but I also like building block type components....that I can mess around with and understand how they work. "Here is this wonderful black box that does everything you could ask for and more" that us electronic geniuses have designed and built for you. No, don't try to fix it or alter it, you're not qualified. Just send us back the black box and we'll fix it or replace it.[/i] Those darn black boxes can be wonderful, but sometimes I just like to KISS. Sometimes I just want to see a mechanical marvel instead of a circuit board. Don


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Your battery power remote system is still a black box, and they are not user repairable. 

If you want a mechanical marvel, then you have to go to live steam WITHOUT any remote control. 

Otherwise, the complexity of the electronics is about the same. Your "battery" system is actually more complex in a way, with batteries and chargers and charging plugs or opening the loco and unplugging them. I don't have to worry about what frequency I am on, or RF interference. 

Regards, Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Ummmm.......not quite. 

Current RCS is through-the-board technology, repairable. 
The only difference (according to some moronic technical advisor for some company) between what I do and his vaunted dcc is that ours is spread out, like component home stereo. 

You buy a tape deck/phonograph/receiver/amp/equalizer in one box, when one thing quits, you send it back or pitch it. 

Not so here, you can actually test in between and figure out what gives.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I really wasn't trying to start an "Us vs Them" thread! I finally got around to reading the thread and the complexities of just getting DCC up and running, never mind if there is a problem, definitely seemed daunting to me! I agree that it_ would_ be good to have a more user friendly maunal! Greg is the guru of DCC but how many people have him right there when they purchase the system? I will say this for the "old method" of r/c battery: it's been around long enough that most people are comfortable with it. In addition, my personal choice RCS, has _very _explicit instructions for installation and hook-up as well as troubleshooting and yes, I have TOC to talk me through anything not covered. I just found the whole thread interesting is all.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, the manual could be written better, and a few simple steps in the beginning would help. 

One thing wrong with QSI documentation, is that since they have been doing this in HO for a long time, they assume everyone knows all the "tricks". We in G scale are not used to hitting F6 twice to start up the loco, and F9 to shut it down. It's a cool feature, but new to use in G scale. 

So people just figure that they hook it up and it runs, like other G scale sound systems. The extra features are cool, but not as automated as an industry that grew out of LGB toy trains. 

Good point, maybe I will make a "QSI FAQ" page on my site. Should not really have to, as you imply. 

I will say that I had even more difficulty on the AirWire manual, the first part of the manual does not tell you how to get the thing going in the first place, that info is in the middle of the manual. 

Oh well, good thing there is a forum! 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I think if you compared the number of "problems with battery" threads to "problems with DCC" threads it would come out about even


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want a mechanical marvel, then you have to go to live steam WITHOUT any remote control. 

Otherwise, the complexity of the electronics is about the same. Your "battery" system is actually more complex in a way, with batteries and chargers and charging plugs or opening the loco and unplugging them. 


You know............I might just try that steam thing......I'm feeling the pull of the dark side, especially since I started heating my house with coal!

Complexity of electronics....I like the stereo component analogy, but I agree, in a way we're replacing one black box with several....not sure which is worse or which is really KISS.
It is nice that Tony and Del are very accessible for the problem times...not that I've had any other than operator failure


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 14 Mar 2010 11:55 AM 
I think if you compared the number of "problems with battery" threads to "problems with DCC" threads it would come out about even With one major exception.

Throw out the complexities of a couple, the idiocy of getting some batteries to work, and you'd have about zero in the one camp.

You want a thrill?
Go into the MR forum and look to see how many dcc issues there are, that generally start out with "WAH!", and there IS no direct radio control!

I love it when someone asks a question, when their particular dcc won't work.

Gawd, I do love it.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Oh, and just remember WHERE this was posted: 

Forums > Power & Sound Forums > RC/Battery Operations


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

RCS did come to mind, that if anything was repairable, it would be, that's why I qualified my statement as "user repairable". 

Of course, RCS stuff does not seem to break, and is the least complex of all it seems. 

I was thinking of some of the more complex, like an AirWire receiver, where the level of complexity is on par with a DCC decoder. 

No aspersions on the quality of CVP, please note. 

Regards, Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Ah, but you've nailed it, Greg-0. 

The complexity of dcc added to the simplicity of r/c (or, a quasi-dcc complexity, as the case may be). 

Add to that one company's issues with QC and repeatability, and you've taken care of the Ivory Soap part of the equation!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, you CAN take something simple and make it complex! 

Just look at cell phones! 

Regards, Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Ah! 
Cell Phones! 
I don't own one!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I hear you can get one with a super socket, what are you waiting for? 

ha ha ha! 

Regards, Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I've seen cell phones. 
I've seen a Super Socket or two in my time. 

Mating the two together would require an arm brace to use.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

You know............I might just try that steam thing......I'm feeling the pull of the dark side...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Technical/ operator Manuals/ should be written by people with the fewest letters after their name. Preferably no letters. Show a non engineer how it works and let him write the manual 

From what I seen so far I am sticking with my Old Track Side and my Old style Air Wire. Maybe I will try the new stuff after what I have dies.


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