# Refurbishing my Railroad



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a picture of what I am starting out with. I have neglectedf my railroad for nearly a year. Grass and weeds have gone crazy. The track has fallen apart. The pond and stream have not been working for over a year now. The trees were planted when they were about 1 foot high. They now have grown to the point that they are obstructing the track in many places. Buildings are in disrepair - some needing major work, others just need cleaning and replacing a few small parts that have fallen off.

I have not run trains in a year. When I checked my engines I found that my 2 shays are in good working condition. However 1 of my 2 porters is having a problem with the sound. The other one will not run at all. My Connie needs truck replacement on the tender before it is operational. My Indie works well. Fixing these engines will cost some money since I do not have the expertise to do it myself. Sometimes I wonder why I ever got into this hobby. 

Anyway, I am going to give it one more try. I will start by working on the railroad itself. I will post more pictures as I make progress.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I want to give you a Big Atta boy! to help keep you motivated. 
You've got a nice yard to work with and once you get started and progress shows itself, you'll be ok. 
G $cale? Tsk Tsk Empire Builders don't look back..... 

Thanks for bringing us along. 

John


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Before you do anything else, get the trains running, then you will be motivated to tackle the rest of it. Don't waste time on the pond or trees, (I kind of like the trees actually), get the trains running. Top Priority! My .02.


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

"..You've got a nice yard to work with and once you get started and progress shows itself, you'll be 
ok...." 

2nd that !! 

Personally, I don't run trains (other outdoor projects) as often as I like to but i do spend an hour or two every couple wks just to ensure the trains could probably run and that the vegetation does not overrun it ...


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The trees were planted when they were about 1 foot high. They now have grown to the point that they are obstructing the track in many places. 
John, 
You can trim the lower branches off those trees up to a height of 6-8", which should clear the tracks and will make them look more prototypical. 

Apart from that - attaboy! I also think that a simple track layout initially to get something running will help your motivation.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John:


The connie (Bachmann?) tender trucks are a weak link on that engine. I think that they all will fail. TOC has a fix, try a search or post over on the Bachmann site. When mine broke I used a pair of freight car trucks for a while until I could find something better. There is good electrical pickup in the engine so you can get by with out in on the tender. I was finally able to get a pair of Accucraft caboose trucks. They look better than the originals.



















Chuck

added in edit:

Here is a thread from back in 2008 about the tender trucks.

Connie tender trucks substitute 

The other weak link in the connie is the drive gear and gear train. Barry of Barry's Big Trains has an excellent replacement. You can send the engine to him, or I believe that he can send the parts to you. I had him do it to mine and it made a big improvement.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

TOC lives about 75 miles from me. I usually v isit him at least once or twice a year with my engine problems. Sometimes he is a little grouchy but you can not help but like the guy. He is quite a character.

Here are a couple more shots of my railroad showing the mess I have on my hands right now.









All of those poppies came from one small flower my wife wanted me to plant about two years ago. They have spread over much of the railroad. I will have to selectively remove many of them to clear the tracks.

I bought 50 Dwarph Alberta Spruce about 7 Years ago. They were in terrible shape at Walmart when I bought them so I got them for half price. Every one of them has survived and done really well. They are only watered when it rains. I got a small handful of Creeping Jennie from a neighbor several years ago and it has now spread throughout the railroad. In late spring and early summer it has very nice yellow flowers. The problem is that it grows everywhere. It has grown under my track, up through the center of the track and completely over the track in quite a few places. It will be a mess to remove.










The Mine bulding is from Colorado Models and has been out for about 3 years now. It is in need of minor repairs. The shaft was built from a piece of 4 X 4 which was then lined with cedar strips. I then cemented it into the hill side and positioned the mine building in such a way that they appear to be connected. It makes removal of the mine building much easier when it comes to repairing it.

The fence was built last year to keep my helper (Jadie) out of the railroad. It worked until she found out that she can squeeze under the bottom rail. Now she swims in the pond whenever it gets hot. I have not made the repairs to keep her out but that will also have to be done.

I have many pieces of track where the rails have separated from the ties. I asked about repairing this track in another post. I got several really good answers, but then I found that if I put the damaged track on a hard surface such as cement with the rails down and then lightly tapped over the area where the ties and rail were separated with a hammer the ties would pop back into place. This seems to work fairly well and does not seem to cause any other damage.

You can see the weeds growing up right in the center of the track.

I do not know what the ground cover with the pretty blue flowers is called but it has spread behind the mine building and also around the upper pond. I am hoping that I will not have to destroy it.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

It's starting to look like a real narrow gauge/logging RR keep up the good work. You should see mine. Your looks good. Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I had a weed once, I watered it and it lasted over half a year. 
Only thing the critters didn't eat here. 

I miss it. 

John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm always pulling grass and moss out of my track. That's fine when I'm running my NG/logging trains and engines, but my B&O freights and streamliners lack a little reality plowing through green. Chuck


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

The biggest critter in my railroad is . . . . .










There are three of them. Two in the lower pond and one in the upper. I do not know what kind they are. They do croak occasionally at night. I think they might eat fish along with bugs and other things. I put 10 feeder gold fish in the pond the other day and now there are only about 4 left. I think they are small enough that these frogs can catch them.

They appear in late March or early April and stick around until mid summer. Then they just disappear. I have no idea where they go. I am not even sure if the same ones come back every year. I often see the cat stalking the edge of the pond but so far these guys have been smarter than she is.

The dog and cat do a good job of keeping the Shrew population under control in my Railroad. They catch one about every other day. Then they play catch with it for about 30 minutes or so. They do not seem to know how to finish off the kill. I feel sorry for the little Shrews as they probably suffer terribly before they finally die.

Anyway, back to pulling weeds.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

A weekend with a few friends, some liquid libation, and pizza/bbq and you should be able to clear most of that out of there to where you can resume running trains. I see some beautiful foilage just waiting to be trimmed back to scale.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By jbwilcox on 19 Jun 2013 05:42 PM 
The biggest critter in my railroad is . . . . .











Anyway, back to pulling weeds.



The really big critters come at night to my railroad, but don't hang around. There were a couple big 1:1 scale poops in my lake today and they were nearly the size of a dog's.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John, I think that frogs eat only insects. I would suspect herons or raccoons. Let us know when you find out. Chuck


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I had one pond that had a couple of those big ones, It later took me weeks to remove all the tadpols that came from them.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Spent most of the day pulling weeds. Things are looking much better.










Next I plan to trim some branches off the trees to clear the right of way. I am starting to feel a little better about the progress I am making.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like you're getting a good start, John... Keep it up. It will be good to see trains running again..


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Second phase of weed removal has taken place on the upper portion of my railroad. All the track has been taken up in preparation for putting in concrete roadbed. I still have much work to do in the area of the tunnel which is under the mountain on the right of the picture. When I put in my concrete roadbed it will raise the level of the track high enough that my engines will not be able to go through the tunnel. That will mean that I have to completely rework the tunnel to gain extra clearance.










The boxwood trees will probably have to be removed and replanted at a later date. So much work to do. This is the year - it either gets done this year or I am going to have a fire sale on G-Scale Railroad rolling stock, track and accessories. I keep saying that every year, but this is finally going to be the year. If it still does not run any better than before when I get done with these modifications, then I will take up Stamp Collecting or go back to my Sea Shell Collection.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Were you track or battery power? What did not work well before?


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

I had problems with everything. Mainly the track. If I worked real hard I could get a train to go around the upper section of my railroad for several hours without derailing. I had. To watch it pretty carefully because if I went in the house it was bound to derail..

I am using battery with RCS. It works pretty well.

I could never get my track to lay down flat. This was a real problem around my switches where most derailments happened. I am hoping that using cement roadbed that I can get my switches to lay flatter.

It is all trial and error , more error than anything else it seems.

One of my porters is having sound problems. It ia skipping beats and sounds terrible. The other one will not run right now and I have no idea what the problem is. But I have decided to work on the track first.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

dI spent the dfay tackling the problem with my water fall and stream. I reworked much of the rock in an attempt to reduce the amount of splashing since I have a feeling that is where I am loosing quite a bit of water. At the same time, I added additional rubber liner. As you can see I have still got to place some rocks to hide the liner.









The water now flows more directly into the pond without hitting any of the rocks behind it. I have watched and can see no evidence of water leaking behind the mountain which would indicate to me that I have that portion of the waterfall well sealed against water loss. There is still small areas on either side of the waterfall that are damp and I attribute that to splashing, not a leak in the liner. If water loss remains small then I can live with that










At the same ime I reworked the stream flowing to the lower pond. I repositioned the liner on both sides and changed the flow of water in several areas where I thought it might be running over the top of the liner. The liner from the upper pond to the lower pond is one single piece with no seams in it. The rocks were obtained from a spot just inside the Olympic National Park. There is a slide area with many rocks that are easily handled by a single person. I go up and load the back of my pickup. The smaller rocks come from another area where I can scoop them up with a shovel. I then placed the larger rocks to make a meandering stream with several small rapids and then covered the liner with the smaller rocks. The object was to make it look as natural as possible. I still need to add small rocks to the liner under the bridge and between the two Alberta Spruce trees in the photo. 

If this seems to solve my water problems, then I will start my concrete roadbed tomorrow. The track crosses this stream at two places on the upper level of my railroad. That means that I will have to raise the level of the track by about 2-3 inches. Presently, I have 14 inches of clearance under the walkway that crosses the stream and the current level of the roadbed. After making the alterations, I hope to maintain a minimum clearance of at least 10 inches which will allow all my engines to pass under the walkway. This is important since This track will lead to the loop that goes around the upper pond.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm interested in why your track would not lay flat, mine is free floating, and never had an issue once I ballasted and leveled the track. Did you have the track fixed in place before with some nails or stakes? 

I guess that is kind of a moot point, since you will be going to concrete. With your past experience, I'm sure you will take great pains to keep the forms level for your new roadbed, much harder to correct in a slab of concrete over ballast. 

Hope you get your water issues solved, it looks very nice! 

Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

The problem with the track was most noticeable on curves. The outer rail always wanted to raise up higher than the inner rail. 

I would push on the track, pound on it, twist it and the outer rail always seemed to be higher than the inner rail. This was not too much of a problem in most places because it was not bad enough that it caused cars or engines to tip over, but the problem was magnified at switches. It seemed like the pilot truck on my engines would pick the rail almost every time.

I could never figure out why this was happening. I did everything I could think of to correct it but it never worked. I could get it so that trains would run fairly reliably but it seemed like every time I turned my back something would derail. Very frustrating, especially when we had friends over to watch the trains. I finally gave that idea up because it became very embarrassing chasing trains all the time. I even had Barrys Big Trains replacement pilot trucks installed on my two Annies. It helped somewhat, but not always. I added lead weight to the pilot trucks which helped a little more.

Anyway, I have decided to try concrete roadbed to see if I can solve the problem. I bought some 1/8 inch Masonite from Home Depot and took it home and cut it into 4 inch strips.









That was quite a project since the Masonite was quite flexible and difficult to push through the saw. I taped two sheets together with Duct Tape and cut two sheets at a time. After a little struggle I had 24 strips 4 inches wide. I then used these to make my concrete roadbed forms. But That is another story for another day. 

Sorry if this is boring everyone.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Did you ever check the back to back spacing on your wheels? I have some medium to small super elevation on my track and some through switches. Recently Chuck and Dirk's locos, a Mallet and a C-16, both ran through without a hitch. 
If your wheels are narrow, the backs can lift on the guard rails.... In the smaller scales we just measured gauge, but now back to back is as important. Few standards on wheels... 
Then again, did Toc check that for you? Try taking him a switch when you take the locos in and explain your problem, might not be the roadbed at all. 

John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John, I have found that if the curve is a little tighter than it is supposed to be, the outside rail will rise up. If you can, try spreading the curve out an inch or two and see if that helps. Chuck


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck, I think you are right. I probably made my curves slightly smaller than they should have been. Hopefully with my concrete roadbed I can correct that problem.

I was at Walmart yesterday looking for Roundup when I found this product called EnviroHold. It is designed to hold mulch in place around driveways and other areas. It looks like it might be diluted white glue but I cannot find any ingredients on the container. Anyway, it is supposed to cover 1500 square feet with a light application, 1000 square feet with a medium application or 500 square feet with a heavy application. It was on sale for half price so I bought a container.









It comew with a nice spray applicator and dries clear. I am hoping to be able to use it on my ballast when I get to that point. It recommends re-application about 2 times a year.

Speaking of ballast, here is what I am using:

1. Bridge Topping 6 X 10 at 5.00 for 50 pounds.
2. Lapis Luster Coarse 50 lb sacks.
3. Rose Marble # 0 100 pound bags.
4. Botte Marble # 0 100 pound bags.

I use different applications of ballast throughout my railroad. The Bridge topping is absolutely perfect size and looks great. The others add a little color which also looks really nice.









I have started making my forms for the concrete to follow. I am using 1/8 inch Masonite. This is probably going to turn out to be a big mistake. It is nice for forming curves and following the track, but on straight sections it is too flimsy to hold its shape unless you use a bunchof stakes to hold it in shape. Anyway, this is what I have so I will make use of it and see what happens. Afterall, when I finally backfill with dirt and add ballast any imperfections will not be noticeable.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

John, Your not boring me at all. !!Keep up the great re-work on your layout!! Your to be commended for tackling those nagging problems that come up and cause grief to us and our layouts. It is not always a piece of cake, I think most of us that are honest go thru this.. Keep after it!! 

We will try to be your cheering section and give you a big thumbs up for your efforts!! 

On a different note, John - "Totalwrecker" - mentions above My C-16 running when we all met there and played trains. It is completely stock out of the box, for those runs, no work has been done to the front pilot... or chassis to make it run better... ( In the future I do plan to give it the lowered look tho, ala Fletch ) 

Keep up the great work!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been thinking about the track issue and the outer rail lifting... my guess is that the track was laid in tension in the curve. 

Also switches, it's too late now, but perhaps putting something solid under them would have helped keep them level. I find switches are easier than track, since they are wider and respond better to putting more ballast under one side or the other. 

Make those forms REAL level side to side! 

Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I am leaving for Utah in the morning. We should be gone for about 12 days so there may not be any additional posts by me until we get back. It will give me some time to think about the next step I am going to take.

I have never planned any track arrangements. I just start laying track and what happens happens. Right now I am fairly satisfied with the upper portion of the railroad where I am currently working. My track gives me a complete circle of track with a short tunnel on one side for the times when I just want to run a train. As I redesigned this portion I decided to make this loop as level as possible. 

On the opposite side from the tunnel there is a spur which leads to industries on each end of the loop. There is enough room for a 3 car train to maneuver through there. On the main line I put in a small siding where I can drop a caboose when I am switching the industries on the spur. 

Exiting the tunnel is a track that will eventually cross the river and meet another track behind the waterfall. This track will then go through a Wye where a train will have the option of returning to the upper section where I am currently working or continuing down to the lower section.

there is another track from the main loop that also crosses the river and unites with the above mentioned track forming another Wye. 

I wish I knew how to draw a nice representation of my track plan like I have seen others do. It would be really nice to let people see what I am working with so they could give me some suggestions on how to make it better.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Keep going JB It is looking Great.

You can do this.. It is good exercise. 

I am looking forward to more pics. I get a few Ideas from you 

If your going to do Concrete Road Bed Post some Pictures of your Process and Progress

JJ

PS What does JB stand for?


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I am back from Utah. Had a great trip. Our granddaughter was selected First Attendant at the Miss Richfield Contest. She got a 1500 dollar scholarship. She played a very technically difficult piano piece called Waterfall. I do not remember the Composer but she made a small mistake at the beginning. We later found out that she finished second by a single point. Anyway, we were all very proud of her accomplishment. Last year she was Second Attendant in the same Pageant. 

We went white water rafting on the Sevier River. It was a fun trip. The rapids were mostly class 2 and 3 so they were fairly tame. We still filled our raft with water on several occasions. Almost lost one rafter but otherwise a very successful trip. 

Finally, we were able to attend the baptism of our grandson. He is the youngest of 7 children, so there will be no more baptismal trips after this one to Utah. We still have 5 more grandchildren in Arizona yet to be baptized so there will be more trips later this year.











Progress is being made on the refurbishing of my railroad. I now have all the concrete poured for the track. Next comes backfilling with dirt to bring it up to the new level of the track. 

One big mistake I made was using too flimsy a material for the forms. I used 1/8th inch Masonite because I thought it would be flexible enough to bend around curves. It did perform well in that respect, but on the straights it tended to bulge out in several places. I also tried to put wooden spacer blocks about every 3 feet. That hasn't worked as well as I had hoped. I also thought that I could use those spacer blocks as anchors for the track by drilling a hole through a tie and screwing the track down to the concrete. As of yet, I have not done that and probably will not.

Anyway, this is the latest update on my railroad, the name of which is Pinetop Lakes Railroad. That name is taken from the place where we lived in Arizona when I first became involved in Large Scale. I have a couple of engines lettered for that railroad so I kept the name, besides, the current rendition does have two lakes so it works.

More progress to come, I hope.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I forgot. . . 

JB stands for John Benjamin.

When I first went to Saudi Arabia in 1997 the internet was just starting. I signed up for Hotmail and used the ID of JBWILCOX. I have had that E-mail address ever since and most of my passwords have some derivation of it. 

John.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

That is really looking great. You have made  great progress. It has been too hot here to work on my layout so I have turned my attention to rolling stock for right now. 

JJ


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## Jim85711 (Feb 12, 2013)

Hey Buddy, I think is looks just about right, The real world there in your back yard, it's not Detroit but nice space to work with, I agree get some stuff running, trim up the trees a little, Tryi here in Tucson with 105 degres out


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

The Envirohold works real good. I've been buying mine at SAM's and it's less than half price now until it's gone. The SAM's stuff comes with a refill and originally sold for about $38. The last time I purchased it, just a couple of days ago, it was only $16. 


I use it on my road bed, but I put it on very heavy in the hopes it will last the year. So far, so good and I've been very happy with it.

Mark

*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Again I was going to add another picture of my progress on my railroad, but when I clicked on "Add Reply" I do not see the regular icon for inserting a picture.

Is this a recent problem? Has anyone else experienced it?

If it is a new change, I do not like it. It took me a long time to learn how to use that feature and I was getting pretty good at it. I do not want to have to learn a new technique for adding pictures to my posts.

Any help from the moderators or anyone else that can tell me what is happening?

John


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

John,

I think you have to be a 1st Class Member to get that icon. Did your subscription lapse in the past few days? I have that icon on this reply.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

If it did, I was given no advance warning. 

I just checked my status and sure enough, my First Class membership expired on 18 July!

That came as a complete surprise. I had previously signed up for 2 years and totally forgot about the expiration date.

Now, do I want to re-up? That was always the big question in the Navy -- Should I sign up for another 4 years or not? Eventually, I always did it until I got to 21 years when I finally called it quits. Will I hang around her for 21 years? I would be 91 by that time, knees so bad I could not walk, eye sight partially gone, brain cells diminished to the point of having only a couple of hundred actively firing at any one time, hearing completely gone -- actually, except for the knee problem it sounds like an enjoyable time to be alive. I would not be inundated with Anti-Obama Emails, would not have to put up with the rotten political problems we now face, would not have to worry about the sanctity of the family . . . I had better quit before I really get in trouble.

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I never knew that re-uping fun was so much worry! 

John


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

John, 

To keep the masonite straight glue / screw a bracing strip of 1/2 x 1 or similar to the outside where needed - reduces the amount of pegs dramatically. I had a similar problem on the (small) amount of concrete roadbed a few years ago. 

Looking good. 

Cheers 
Neil


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Hey JB


You know you can buy stakes at Home Depot by the bundle.

Then you could use as many as you want to hold the forms in place 

JJ


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

That is what I did. Iboughtabout 48 stakes.

I am currently done with the forms for my roadbed. Pictures to follow.

John


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry about the typing. I am using my IPad and I am not too good with the pop up key board.

John


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