# Parking direction in roundhouse



## Shekou Jim (Oct 19, 2009)

Another operational question: In many pics of roundhouses you see the locos' front ends in the doorways - much more photogenic than their rear ends (true of many of us). However, in operational descriptions I've read that the park the locos facing away from the turntable so there is more room to work on the areas that need the most attention: valves, cylinders, etc. Is one direction more common than others? Did any RR's face the locos out?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Front end in 1st was the norm most of the time... Tender in first was only for work on the tender (rare) or specifically for a photo-op.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

'Most' roundhouses would fit an entire loco and tender inside but alot of times as said above the loco was left back for more room around the front of it and to center it on the pit underneath. 

I have also heard some railroads put them nose in so if they ran away they wouldn't drop into the pit. I dunnoo if that's true or not but it sounds feasible. 

Terry


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

A roundhouse was designed with a smoke evacuation system and smoke jack located over each stall. Locos would be parked so the stack was under the smoke jack, whether front in or back in- depending on jack location. Exception would be a cold loco for above noted valve work etc, which could be pushed in for heavy work. 

Jonathan/EMw


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The most likely (though seldom to happen) mode of failure of the valve gear would let the gear fall into foward, so yes, there was some concern of the engine moving through the doors and fallling into the turntable pit. With some types of valve gear, even with the Reverser lever centered, due to the way the valve timing works, there is a propensity for leaking steam to move the engine forward.

Then there is the story of the engine with the leaky throttle valve...It was put away "hot" in the roundhouse... with the fire banked to keep it that way so it could be moved first thing in the AM. Then everybody went home. Seems the throttle leaked enough that it rolled forward until the cowcatcher was against the outside wall. This left the exhaust stack no longer under the smoke jack of the building but rather under the low shed roof of the outer radius of the building. The throttle continued to leak and pressure built up in the cylinders until the wheels broke free from the rail and spun wildly. The exhaust blast from the stack blew the shed roof off the building and the spinning wheels burnt the driver tires, rendering them unfit for road use. Pieces of the roof landed on the rest of the roof causing portions to collapse onto other engines in the building and on cars stored on adjacent tracks. The extreme draft over the fire sucked embers from it and showered them down on adjacent buildings, starting many small fires.

This is why, in photos, you will often see chains draped through the spokes of steam locomotive's driver wheels... Not to just chock the wheels against rolling, but keep them from spinning in place, just to preclude this sort of thing from happening (again).


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## Shekou Jim (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks all. Now I have to decide if I go with realism, or maintain the photo-op look.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Most of the photos I've seen of the Durango roundhouse have the locos backed in (front facing the doors). I'm not 100% sure, but I think this had to do with the roof clearance. Here's a photo I found doing a quick Google search:














So that's how I park our locos:





















But, as in the 1st photo of our roundhouse above, sometimes I park the little diesel switcher (#50) the other way...mainly because the battery on/off switch is in the back. 



Why even my sister parks her stuffed trains with their faces looking out the doors


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

This is just a guess but the quality of light would be much better near the doors when working on the engines than back in the recess of roundhouse. 
Wesley 
SA #212


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

The C&NW, which ran steam into the mid 20th century, headed them in at the Proviso roundhouse. You could see that the tenders had the engine numbers on their back ends.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

By "headed them in", I mean that they faced away from the turntable.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

The Southern Pacific always parked theirs headed in. The reason was there is more room to work on the cylinders and such at the back end of the roundhouse where the track spread out. There was little need to work on the tenders usually. The Rio Grande for some unknown reason did the opposite.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt,

That third shot is priceless!! 

The light inside a roundhouse seems to vary. The working roundhouses I was in (Knoxville, TN, Norlfolk, VA) at NS had pretty good lighting throughout. The Shaffers crossing roundhouse had been daylighted before I started there, so lighting was good during the day, if it was sunny.


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## Big65Dude (Jan 2, 2008)

I was at the Opening Day of the East Broad Top RR in Orbisonia PA earlier this month and (as usual) prowled around the roundhouse. Here's what I saw:









This is a view from the front porch of our B&B showing the rear of the roundhouse (a great location, no?) As you can see, the smoke vents are positioned at the back end of the stalls. (The cupolas are just for general ventilation.)









Consequently, the "working" locomotives (at least No. 15 is, at the moment) are parked nose in.









No. 18, however, has been cold for some time now and was pulled out (with a tractor) strictly as a "photo op."


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Most common, especially from the 20th Century on was headed in. If you examine some of the historic photos from the 1870's & before however you will see that the smoke jacks on the roundhouse roofs were sometimes on the end closest to the turntable end. Locos would normally be placed so their stack would be beneath these smoke jacks, thus in a number of instances you'd see them backed in. 

Later when most were placed head first and new longer turntables were installed for newer, bigger engines much of the old roundhouse would still be in use. This often meant that the engines were longer than the stalls. Here it was common to have the tenders protruding some distance outside the stalls with the engine inside. Too, new longer stalls would often be added to the roundhouse rather than extending the old ones.


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Jack: The picture of the EBT bringing No18 out... you would think they would be smart enough to drop the main rod and valve rod so as to prevent cylinder and valve chest scoring.

C.T.: its a good story, and on the face of it sounds plausible. But if you think about it,there is a problem with the story. 1) a leaking throttle would take a bit to build up enough pressure to break the drivers free. This means that after the pistons moved and opened the valves, exhausting the used steam to the atmosphere, it would take a bit before the leaking throttle assembly could recharge the cylinders enough to continue the movement. This would mean one single decent chug, and a couple of whisper chugs until the wheels stopped and the cylinder recharged and did it over again. 2) with the reverser centered, the valves wouldn't move... much if at all. This means that even if the cylinder charged with leaking steam, the valves would respond to the spinning wheels, and therefore wouldn't exhaust the steam to the blast pipe. Further, the valve wouldn't continue its travel and admit leaking steam to the other side of the piston. I would seriously doubt this ever occured, and if it in fact did, I'd like to learn how it could have... there would definitely be a lesson to be learned... not sure what though.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, I don't make 'em up, I just repeat 'em... the story is in one of my antique books about RRs... if I could remember which one, I'd list the name, but... well... it has been several years since I read that book and they are all in random stacks and boxes on multiple shelves in several rooms, so I don't hold out much hope I could find it again.

But I thought the same thing as you when I read it, so I studied various forms of valve gear and discovered that even with the Reverser in neutral the valve still moves due to the Combination Lever. This will allow steam to reach the exhaust. (From the woodcut illustration in the book, I assumed it to be a dome throttle and Walshaerts valve gear.) The momentum of the wheels breaking free could continue the rotation beyound just one quarter turn. Considering that maybe one end of each cylinder might have received a charge of steam, it would continue rotation beyond a half turn and given the residual pressure in the steam pipe (dry pipe) between the throttle and the valves the other end of eac h cylinder could contribute to continue the rotation even further.

Also, as I remember the woodcut illustration in the book (which admitedly may or may not represent the actual scene) it would not take much to blow the roof off THAT building! One good puff and it would be skybound.

The book did point out the use of chains to chock the wheels to keep this from happening (again).


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

There was a problem with the throttle valve linkage on mid to late 19th century steam locomotives that allowed the throttle to crack open while the locomotive simmered in the roundhouse. The problem happened often enough to spawn the railroad jargon term "nightcrawlers" as a description for the locomotives that did start on their own. I have a book I purchased in the mid-1960s that is devoted to train wrecks. One photo in that book shows a steam locomotive that burst through the brick wall at the back of its roundhouse stall. Since this particular roundhouse was situated on the bank of a river, the front of the locomotive was dangling over the water. Fortunately, this was only the pony truck; the weight on the drivers prevented the locomotive from taking a swim! 

As for retaining the locomotive with chains, I suppose it would work with low steam pressure. I know that Petulia (W, K&S Porter #65) could step over those chains without a pause under full steam. I'm sure you guessed how I know (not my fault - my fireman forgot to pull them that morning!). 

Hope this helps, 
David Meashey


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave Meashey on 24 Jun 2010 12:19 PM 
There was a problem with the throttle valve linkage on mid to late 19th century steam locomotives that allowed the throttle to crack open while the locomotive simmered in the roundhouse. The problem happened often enough to spawn the railroad jargon term "nightcrawlers" as a description for the locomotives that did start on their own. I have a book I purchased in the mid-1960s that is devoted to train wrecks. One photo in that book shows a steam locomotive that burst through the brick wall at the back of its roundhouse stall. Since this particular roundhouse was situated on the bank of a river, the front of the locomotive was dangling over the water. Fortunately, this was only the pony truck; the weight on the drivers prevented the locomotive from taking a swim! 

As for retaining the locomotive with chains, I suppose it would work with low steam pressure. I know that Petulia (W, K&S Porter #65) could step over those chains without a pause under full steam. I'm sure you guessed how I know (not my fault - my fireman forgot to pull them that morning!). 

Hope this helps, 
David Meashey 

Chains can be easily rolled over... put them through the spokes and secure the end together below the rail, or through the spokes and secured (tightly) around the side rods. (And I don't mean chains from your kids swing set!)


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh, okay. I see what you mean. This was thirty three years ago. As I remember, the links were made from thick stock (5/8 to 3/4 inch diameter), but the chains we had were too short to put through the spokes. If done the way you described, I imagine they would hold much better. 

We put a 3/4 inch diameter rod through the spokes on the two foot gauge Crown 4-4-0. The rod had a large disk welded to one end and a link for a padlock welded to the other end. That little engine could not move once the rod was secured. I suppose the heavy chain would work just as well, but as I mentioned, the chains I had to work with were too short to do that. 

Wasn't trying to dispute you, just noting personal experience. 

Yours, 
David Meashey


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave Meashey on 24 Jun 2010 12:44 PM 
Oh, okay. I see what you mean. This was thirty three years ago. As I remember, the links were made from thick stock (5/8 to 3/4 inch diameter), but the chains we had were too short to put through the spokes. If done the way you described, I imagine they would hold much better. 

We put a 3/4 inch diameter rod through the spokes on the two foot gauge Crown 4-4-0. The rod had a large disk welded to one end and a link for a padlock welded to the other end. That little engine could not move once the rod was secured. I suppose the heavy chain would work just as well, but as I mentioned, the chains I had to work with were too short to do that. 

Wasn't trying to dispute you, just noting personal experience. 

Yours, 
David Meashey 

No dispute taken... I also learned a long time ago that steam locomotive wheels can be an effective (though sloppy) "shear".


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

As I recall, the throttle assembly issue was that the rod from the throttle lever to the dry pipe cooled at a different rate than the boiler. As the two cooled, it would cause a change in the distance from the throttle assembly to the throttle, there-by causing the linkages to open the valve.

This ended up being solved through the use of a combination lever and head-end throttles.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

As stated the C&NW parked them nose in and most locos, the fires (in later years when they where converted to fuel oil would let the fire die for the nite) Once fired up in the a.m. they could be backed easily to the fuel and water towers just out side the round house. Since they let the fires die they had no worry about the locos crawling any where. Later RJD


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I got quite a few pictures of the U.P.'s Cheyenne roundhouse where both the freight and passenger sides everything is pulled in esp. if the engine was heading to the backshop. All tender work was done in the tender shops which was sort of east of the backshop.


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