# Transformers



## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a bit of a gripe, while also asking for possible solutions.

I am about one or two notches above the guy whose layout is oval or figure 8 on a 4 X 8 or 4 x 16 bare plywood table 
(and I might not even be that much above said 'guy'). Because of this, I've been able to get by pretty well with 
standard the standard grey Bachmann and LGB transformers / throttles, none of them putting out over one amp. 
As of late, though, the layout has *finally* been coming together, relatively stable track plan, ect...so I decided 
to hunt around on EBAY (possibly a mistake right there) and upgrade a couple notches.

First aquistition was from Lionel; info on the transformer itself (not the throttle) Model : AC 1803000, 120 volts input 
(60 Hz, 77w), output 18 volts, 3 amps. Hooked it up, went to fire up the train...and nada. Locomotive (didn't matter 
which one) just made a buzzing sound. Tried the transformer with a different throttle, did alright. Don't know if the
Bachmann throttles are really rated for that kind of output, but what the heck.

Second aquisition is a Aristocraft power plus Hobby 5 transformer, puts out 19 volts. Hooked this one up...and the 
'power' light would come on for maybe a second and the train would move maybe two inches), then go out for
about five seconds, (no action), then come on for a second, go back out again, ect...accompanied by this horrid
buzzing sound. 

I *might* be able to get inside the guts of the lionel throttle...but the aristo unit is pop rivited together. The flickering 
power light would seem to indicate a bad internal connection to me...but if I can't get to it...

So...am I doing something wrong here? I mean the wiring setup for these units is pretty basic: wall outlet to 
transformer, transformer to throttle, throttle to track - and the transformer and throttle are all one piece with the
aristo unit. Do they need to warm up a while? Is there some sort of internal reset? Or do I just stick with the little 
one amp Bachmann and LGB jobs? And-

-is there actually such a creature as a decent 'one or two notches up from the starter set transformers' that is actually 
affordable? One I could pick up at a discount barn or somewhere for $100 - $150, give or take?


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

I think you will find the Lionel transformer puts out AC, not DC which you require for large scale trains. I don't think the throttles you mentioned can rectify AC to make DC. 

This thread may be of interest to you

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

Alan


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

The power supply needs to output DC somewhere between 12 and 24 volts DC, it sounds like the Lionel transformer is AC, the buzzing sound is the motor reversing itself 60 times a second if you let it buzz to long the next thing you'll see is smoke and it wont be from the smoke stack, it will burn out the motor........the other Hobby 5 transformer power supply sounds like the circuit breaker is going on and off...... Does the power pack turn on and off when it isn't connected to anything? If it doesn't, does it when it's connected to the track with nothing on the track.....if it only works with your engines off the track, maybe your motors are burned out....do your engines still work with the original LGB & BM power packs?


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

The lionel transformer says the output is 18 VAC...might explain that one. Maybe I could use it for accessories or some such. (Don't switch motors use AC power? I mostly have manual switches, but there are a couple of remote ones I've been meaning to take a look at...) 

The aristo unit does turn itself on and off when not connected to anything. Fortunately (and this was a huge concern of mine) the locomotives I was testing still run just fine with the other transformers.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

You need to add a diode bridge and a DPDT reversing switch to make the Lionel AC output become DC output. Plus you need a filter capacitor on the diode bridge output for some locos to run properly. 

Some hobby power packs (DC power is more than just a transformer hence the term power pack is used) output pulses that sound units do not like.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

ThinkerT, 

If I may make a suggestion...Pick up an MRC 6200 (60VA or 3 amp). This sounds like the perfect transformer for your "current" needs (pun intended). If you spend some time you can find them on ebay for very reasonable cost. I see the "silver" one go for well under $50 quite often. I ran big power hungry loco's on these without issue for some time. I still have two running my indoor layout. It has DC output for trains and AC output for accesories. Cheap and reliable.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I had a 6200 and I have to disagree, it won't put out 3 amps at LS voltages, the 60 va is a very misleading number, and all quality products give you amps and volts. the problem is that the 60 va is NOT available at all voltages. Mine would not run a LGB track cleaning loco. It's good for about 2 amps at higher voltages. At lower voltages it can put out a bit more. 

For the money you mentioned, many many people have bought the MRC Power G, 24 volts, variable throttle, and 10 amps. Probably last you a long time. 

Again, the 6200 might get you by, but it will be marginal. I also would not try to use the 2 older AC transformers you have, again because of capacity. 

(I gave my 6200 away to a person that runs mostly one loco at a time, slowly) 

Regards, Greg


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

I was confused by the desire for a transformer "That is actually affordable". The 6200 is a worthy performer for the typical low cost and is levels above the starter set units. It runs Mikado's, Croc's, and Bigboys...But admittedly one at a time. 

Then I see his thoughts on price are significantly higher..."for $100 - $150, give or take?". For that money I would also heartily agree with the MRC Power G. Two of these units powered my outdoor runs and will be used again this year. I picked one of mine up for a tad over $100.00 on ebay. I like the "feel" of these units. 

Price is no object? Well then I’d go for the LGB Jumbo…If you can find one.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Thinker T: 
I am partial to the Bridgewerks transformers, a bit pricy but great performers, most likely a lifetime investment and to top it all, Dave and his wife Peggy provide the best in customer service. I do have an LGB jumbo for sale if you are interested ($325 plus shipping,very good condition).


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

DO NOT use Lionel powerpacks, its AC designed for 3 rail AC power supply, unmodified it will burn up DC stuff. Sort of like trying to power your 12v DC smartphone by plugging it directly into an 110v AC wall outlet without any voltage modifier, Mmmm I can smell the smoke from here. 

If your going to upgrade, I would try to find something with 5 amps minimum, as Greg says the 2 or 3 amp "upgrade" packs in reality are not much better than the standard basic LGB 1 amp pack. 10 amps is definitly overkill for what we do... but if you can find one in your price range .... ;-)


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

ThinkerT, 

i thought, that you planned to stay with small locos... 
if that is still the case, forget bigger powerpacks. 
just split up your track into blocks, that not more than one train will occupy any given block at the same time. each block with another little powerpack. 

i am doing that for more than 40 years now. = most trains have two motors, stainz or similar plus powered tender. 
i even still use some very old H0 starterpack transformers = mainly on downgrades, where the trains need less power. 

korm 

ps = sorry for wrong signs. i got a new pc and am still trying to find the right setting for my keybord


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I love my meg 10 amp. 

As wanting to stay with smaller locos, I had the same idea at first. Then I decided I had to have a dash 9 painted like rock island 513 and there went the small idea. 

Spend to extra money for the 10 amp. You wont be sorry 
y


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I have a couple MRC 6200s and they work fine for smaller stuff. In fact, they work fine for anything I run (primarily USA and Aristo 2-motor, 2-axle diesels). It will even run my fan train that uses a Johnson 30 volt, 4.47 amp hand-tool motor without shutting down, though not to its capacity. I've had bigger and more expensive power packs go into protection mode running the fan train after just a few minutes at low speed running.

If you want to go another way, I have a 10 amp, trackside RCS system that you only need to add an a/c or d/c supply to. I've added additional filtering capacitors and that even raised the output by ~1/2 - 1 volt. This will allow you to run your trains by remote control. I'll let it go for $60 plus shipping. Again, you will need to add an a/c or d/c source on the order of 16-24 volts.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By mbendebba on 12 Jul 2011 09:47 AM 
Thinker T: 
I am partial to the Bridgewerks transformers, a bit pricy but great performers, most likely a lifetime investment and to top it all, Dave and his wife Peggy provide the best in customer service. I do have an LGB jumbo for sale if you are interested ($325 plus shipping,very good condition).


Not to take this off-topic, but I have a question on the Bridgewerks.

On the units that have two or more separate sets of outputs, can these two or more sets of outputs run a common rail/ground or are they tied back to a single transformer making this a big NO NO? (IOW, are they seperated all the way back to the wall plug or do they share any common components?) I've never seen this in print anywhere.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By toddalin on 12 Jul 2011 12:38 PM 
Posted By mbendebba on 12 Jul 2011 09:47 AM 
Thinker T: 
I am partial to the Bridgewerks transformers, a bit pricy but great performers, most likely a lifetime investment and to top it all, Dave and his wife Peggy provide the best in customer service. I do have an LGB jumbo for sale if you are interested ($325 plus shipping,very good condition).


Not to take this off-topic, but I have a question on the Bridgewerks.

On the units that have two or more separate sets of outputs, can these two or more sets of outputs run a common rail/ground or are they tied back to a single transformer making this a big NO NO? (IOW, are they seperated all the way back to the wall plug or do they share any common components?) I've never seen this in print anywhere.

I have no idea, I have never used those kinds of units. If you are curious, you should call Dave at Bridgewerks. I am certain he will answer your questions to your satisfaction. He has been extremely helpful and patient every time I called him with a question.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

From Korm: 
ThinkerT, 

i thought, that you planned to stay with small locos... 
if that is still the case, forget bigger powerpacks. 
just split up your track into blocks, that not more than one train will occupy any 
given block at the same time. each block with another little powerpack. 

This is one of the tracks my mind is tending down, especially after these twin 
flops. 
The little silver Bachmann and LGB units run everything I have, and the 
major parts of my layout are electrically isolated, though I am almost 
certainly going to put in another couple of 'blocks'. 


DO NOT use Lionel powerpacks, its AC designed for 3 rail AC power supply, 
unmodified it will burn up DC stuff. Sort of like trying to power your 12v DC 
smartphone by plugging it directly into an 110v AC wall outlet without any 
voltage modifier, Mmmm I can smell the smoke from here. 


Thanx! *That* explains that part of it. 

I will have to look into these 'MRC G' and 'MRC 6200' units. The way my line is set up, 
one train at a time is the limit, or one train plus a switcher, maybe. 

(the trackplan is a single track loop connecting a couple of switching puzzles, one of which is actually on a 
spur off of the mainline proper. Eventually, I intend to add a second 'upper level' loop. My original idea, 
which I still bounce back to fairly often, was to just have a separate one amp transformer for each puzzle 
an another for handling trains 'on the loop').


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By toddalin on 12 Jul 2011 12:38 PM 
Posted By mbendebba on 12 Jul 2011 09:47 AM 
Thinker T: 
I am partial to the Bridgewerks transformers, a bit pricy but great performers, most likely a lifetime investment and to top it all, Dave and his wife Peggy provide the best in customer service. I do have an LGB jumbo for sale if you are interested ($325 plus shipping,very good condition).


Not to take this off-topic, but I have a question on the Bridgewerks.

On the units that have two or more separate sets of outputs, can these two or more sets of outputs run a common rail/ground or are they tied back to a single transformer making this a big NO NO? (IOW, are they seperated all the way back to the wall plug or do they share any common components?) I've never seen this in print anywhere.


If the power pack has more then one output that are for mutipul tracks so you can run more than ont engine on different tracks then there can be no common between tracks oryou would not be able to reverse your engines. 

JJ


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By John J on 13 Jul 2011 06:44 AM 
Posted By toddalin on 12 Jul 2011 12:38 PM 
If the power pack has more then one output that are for mutipul tracks so you can run more than ont engine on different tracks then there can be no common between tracks oryou would not be able to reverse your engines. 
JJ 


As long as the two "systems" are separate to the wall plug (separate transformers), they can share a common rail even if the two systems are housed in a common box. If they share a common internal transformer, it's a No No. 

If the Bridgewerks does not allow for a common rail for its "multi-throttle" power packs, this is a severe oversight and would be a real problem for some like myself.


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