# 1:20 highly detailed passenger cars?



## cfra7 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi,

I have started a move to 1:20 after falling in love with the J&S passenger cars offered by Accucraft. However, after attending a train show last weekend I saw a box car converted to a cooking car that made my J&S cars look like crap. The detail was unbelievably good. They wanted $600 for the car and that was a reasonable price considering the detail. 

Does anyone offer this level of detail on a 1:20 passenger car. No I don't have the talent to do this myself nor do I want to spend years perfecting my technique. 

I did find one web site that offered 1:20 scale custom passenger cars for about $500. I can't seem to find the site tonight. I'll look again when I get back to work. 

I know anything can be bought at a price but I'm looking for something around $600. Perhaps that's too low. I don't know. Who makes the best 1:20 passenger cars and how much do they cost?

Please point me in the right direction or tell me no such products exist.

Thanks again for everything.


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## cfra7 (Jan 2, 2008)

I found the web site. It's custom model products. I guess they are brass for $475 but I'm not sure how much more detail they would have over my plastic J&S cars from Accucraft. I'm not sure I can tell the difference from the photos.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

A lot depends upon whether the detailing that you want is outside only or both outside _and_ inside. There are some nice kits that can modify your J&S coaches into just about anything but to get great detail _inside_ takes a level of artistic talent as well as time and effort! Hartford at one time had an interior detailing kit for their products that I know could have been used but I haven't seen one in a long time. Some of the guys here on MLS have done museum quality work scratch building complete interiors. Unfortunately, there's really no easy middle-ground. Of course, if you have the coach already and want it detailed, for $600 or so you might be able to convince someone to detail it for you...


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

CFra7, if you are interested, I have an unbuilt Hartford D&RGW combine kit, complete with trucks and interior. I have built a Hartford coach and installed the interior kit, and it is quite a spectacular model. These kits are not cheap, but you are getting a really beautiful wooden model for your money. And you can add additional detail if you wish with castings from folks like Trackside Details. 

Ross Schlabach


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The box-car-turned-cook-car--if not custom--was likely a Rio Grande Models UK model. I don't know if they have interiors or not, or the interior could be custom. They are top-drawer in terms of details. In terms of passenger cars detailed to that level, you're out of luck. Custom Metal Products' passenger cars are brass, but do not have detailed interiors that I've ever been able to see at shows. Many of their products are manufactured for them by Accucraft, so expect similar detailing. That's not to say the Accucraft cars are poorly detailed, but--yes--the interior detailing is far more "representative" of an interior than a detailed one. You're not going to find one with a detailed interior commercially available. Sadly, the only advice I can offer in that regard is to roll up your sleeves and start building. (This, mind you, from the person who has two passenger cars completely detailed on the outside, but whose interiors remain unfinished now 4 years later...) 

Quite honestly, I can run those cars all day at a show, and maybe 5% of the people will pick up on the fact that there's no finished interior... 

Later, 

K


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 25 Jan 2013 11:18 AM 
The box-car-turned-cook-car--if not custom--was likely a Rio Grande Models UK model........... 

Later, 

K 




OR maybe one of Phil Dippel,s "Phil's Narrow Gauge" MOW work cars?


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## cfra7 (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn’t see the interior of the car. It was just the outside that was so amazing. The paint, the screen door, etc. The big reason I didn’t buy it was that it would make my MTH J&S cars look like crap. It was for sale by Electric Steam Modelworks. 
I’m not sure that I care that much about the interior of the car because I didn’t think I will see it that much when I run. Perhaps I don’t care that much about the interior because I have yet to see an excellent example. You don’t know what you want until you see it.

Is what I’m hearing is that I should perhaps just find someone to ship my J&S cars to who can make the exterior less plastic looking? I’m not sure switching to the brass versions of the J&S cars will make that big of a difference when operating but perhaps I’m wrong. Does anyone do this kind of art work that makes a J&S look like a real car?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I roped that into the "if not custom" department because Phil's is a kit which retails for $90. I figured a $600 price tag on a $90 kit would have to include some exquisite custom detailing to justify that kind of cash. The Rio Grande UK model sold for £265 when it was available, which today would be around $420 or so. (Edit after Cfra7's response) Electric & Steam Model Works is the US distributor for Rio Grande UK, so that would make sense.



In terms of "de-plasticizing" the Accucraft cars, your best bet will be some light weathering. Any "new" paint you put over the existing paint will still be paint, just of a different color and sheen. I'd suggest a wash of grimy black (brown and black mixed together) acrylic paint, and a brushing of dust weathering powders on the trucks, steps, and along the bottom edge of the car, etc. If you get some of the wash on the windows, that's fine. Windows got dirty. Once it's dry, you can take a Q-tip and "clean" the windows if you'd like. On the roof, get some masking tape or aluminum duct tape and lay down panels to give the roof some needed texture. Then paint it black or dark grey, weather it with some powders and/or washes, and it will look 300% better! You can just brush paint the tape, so there's no need for masking or anything fancy. Any cheap acrylic paint will work if you use the masking tape, but if you're using the foil tape, you may want to use a higher-end paint like Badger's "Accuflex" (ModelFlex) paint.

Later, 

K


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

The "box car turned cook car" was actually not that. It is my built up demo model of the Rio Grande UK MOW water service car. This car is far longer than a standard box car, the real thing still exists in much dilapidated condition in Durango. I do not understand the reference to the J and S coaches however. True, that water service car kit - never produced by anyone ever before - is well done( I needed a fully finished kit to show folks what the kit was...) but it would never run with a passenger train anyway, so how does it make what are already the finest passenger coaches available to look bad? The water service car does not have an interior, by the way. If you are into MOW, then it is a good one to have... 
For decades, the standard practice in the industry for custom builders has been a rule: The cost of the build is the cost of the kit- at a minimum. So, A 
Hartford passenger kit at 499.00 would then cost 499 for a pro to build it. In this case the water service kit sold for 299.00 US w/o trucks or couplers, , so fully finished, weathered, and assembled model at 600.00 falls right into line . I know of a number of folks that paid well in excess of 1000 or even 1200 for fully built Hartford coaches or combines, and I know quite a few pro builders that had plenty of work at all times. Anyway, RGUK is no longer producing anything, so I have no more need of the demo model, hence the sale... 
Too bad cfra7 did not intro yourself to me, i could have offered you a lot of help in some of the areas you are asking about. 
As for further info, the CMP cars are indeed made by Accucraft, and they are brass, but they are made to different specs. They use a different gauge of brass- thicker- and are heavy. They are also not full length narrow gauge cars,, and are certainly not Ro Grande protype, but are rather specific models of certain items. Lastly, I believe they are equipped with bearings in the trucks out of the box, which is good since they do weigh a lot. 

jonathan/Electric/Steam Modelworks 
www.rctrains.com


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## cfra7 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jonathan,

I did leave a voice mail message for you this morning. I also tired a 2nd time to contact you with no success. We did speak for 15 minutes at the show but the car was never a topic of conversation. 

After leaving the show I did feel that your car was so well produced in color and detail that my J&S cars would look poorly detailed next to it. I apologize that my description was not correct. However, a converted box car seemed like the closest description I could provide. I had never seen anything like it. What I want is 1:20 passengers cars that look as good as that car. So how do I get there from here? I guess I can try calling you again.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

What I want is 1:20 passengers cars that look as good as that car. So how do I get there from here 
cfra7 (?name) 

As Jonathan said, the Harford coaches are exquisite models - once you put them together. Unfortunately, the Accucraft J&S coaches are much much less expensive and Hartford doesn't make them these days. 
Fortunately - that makes them a bargain if you can find one - I have seen the kits significantly reduced in price and I was offered one just last year.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cfra7, I am sorry you do not like your MTH J&S cars. I did not know that MTH made cars in 1: 20.3. You should have gotten some Accucraft J&S cars like the rest of us. I am very happy with mine. Chuck


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Posted By cfra7 on 25 Jan 2013 11:53 AM 

I’m not sure that I care that much about the interior of the car because I didn’t think I will see it that much when I run. Perhaps I don’t care that much about the interior because I have yet to see an excellent example. You don’t know what you want until you see it.


cfra7, You might as well see what some of these guys do with interiors, it's just amazing. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/21/aft/121644/afv/topic/Default.aspx


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Chuck, go easy on the guy. Typos happen.  

Here's one of my J&S coaches, which--while modified and repainted--was still very close in finish and sheen to the original J&S coach before I weathered it. 









Later, 

K


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## cfra7 (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess the cars I have are the Accucraft/AMS plastic J&S cars. I think the brass cars are the Accucraft cars.

So it sounds like best passenger cars are no longer produced and I would need to build and paint them myself unless I find a used set.

Second best are the brass Accucraft cars. Still my need some detail paint work.

Third best our my Accucraft/AMS cars. Still need paint work.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

CFRA7 

Best is a relative term. The plastic cars I have seen "worked over" by Pete Thornton, Geoff Ringle, and others, look BETTER than any Hartford kit build I have seen. In terms of value for the dollar [often the single measure used by many runners], the Accucraft models are best. 

You can really improve the appearance of the Accucraft plastic cars if you wet sanded them and put a little weathering on. That might take 5 or 10 hours. 

IF you built the Hartford kits, they will cost you about $400 [or more] with a pair of trucks and couplers. Expect to devote at least 100 hours to the kit build, painting, lettering, and weathering, unless you are highly skilled and a very fast kit builder. Doc Watson built one, perhaps he can chime in with what labor he put into it. I know George Konrad built several of the Hartford kits. 

Remember too, the brass cars are the closed vestibule cars used on the San Juan, not the open vestibule cars like the Hartford kits, or AMS plastic models. 

Good luck in your quest.


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## docwatsonva (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, the model I built was a very highly modified version of Hartford's coach kit. This was mainly because I was building a private car which was quite different from a coach. The parts I used from Hartford's coach kit were trucks, couplers, cast roof ends, carlines, and a set of his plans. I used his plans to mimic his basic construction techniques which were extraordinary. Most everything elase was scratchbuilt.

As for time, I began construction in 2004 and completed the model in 2010. I lost 2 years during our move for VA to NC. I would guess that it took at least 200 hours, 2-3 hours at a time.

Here are 2 topics covering the middle and final phases of construction. The first phase was lost in the archives.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...spx#157368

Doc


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 25 Jan 2013 10:13 AM 
CFra7, if you are interested, I have an unbuilt Hartford D&RGW combine kit, complete with trucks and interior. I have built a Hartford coach and installed the interior kit, and it is quite a spectacular model. These kits are not cheap, but you are getting a really beautiful wooden model for your money. And you can add additional detail if you wish with castings from folks like Trackside Details. 

Ross Schlabach 
I made an error. The kit I have available is the Passenger Coach -- not the Combine. The kit comes with the Truck kit and the Coach Interior kit too. IM me if you are interested.

Ross Schlabach


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