# Another Dumb Ebay Question



## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I am a very occasional bidder on Ebay. I usually set my limit and put that in as my maximum bid. Sometimes I win, but most often not, but I really don't get too concerned, because I already said how much I am willing to pay. 

My question is about sniping. On several occasions I have been outbid by 50¢ in the final 10 seconds or so. Okay, I already made up my mind here's the limit. But I would like to know do these guys use a special program or do they just take a chance on getting in during the final 10 seconds? I looked at a recent bidder history that sniped me, and I see that everything he won was done with 1 bid


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Tom Parkins on 06 Jan 2010 07:32 PM 
I am a very occasional bidder on Ebay.  I usually set my limit and put that in as my maximum bid.  Sometimes I win, but most often not, but I really don't get too concerned, because I already said how much I am willing to pay.  
 
My question is about sniping.  On several occasions I have been outbid by 50¢ in the final 10 seconds or so.  Okay, I already made up my mind here's the limit.  But I would like to know do these guys use a special program or do they just take a chance on getting in during the final 10 seconds?  I looked at a recent bidder history that sniped me, and I see that everything he won was done with 1 bid


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tom 

There are reasons people use programs like bidnapper. 

The big problem on ebay in bidding are people who have no idea how much they are willing to pay for an item. 

Just check the bidding stats after an item has ended. 

You're apt to see the same bidder rebid several times. Obviously he thought he could bid 5 bucks and win. Then as soon as he get's out bid, he bids again, but only enough to get the high bid again. Maybe only 6 bucks. An on an on it goes. So, if you use bidnapper or just wait until the last minute to bid, you give these type bidders less chance to out bid you. 

The other thing that goes on with ebay, is people with either large pockets or no brains. Just look at the completed items. The same item might sell many times in the $30.00 range. Then you get two idiots that bid the same item up over 100 bucks. 

If you're bidding the minumum, understand that seldom does anything that is priced reasonably to begin with, sell for the base bid. 

If you see something you just have to have, bid double what you think it's worth. But don't be surprized when you still get out bid. 

Good luck 

Randy


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

If there is something I really want if will follow the last second countdown and but a bid in with 8 seconds to go. Just plain old sniping, no fancy software needed. Though I am pretty set with my wants these days so I will just bid like you do. 

-Brian


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 06 Jan 2010 08:04 PM 
Hi Tom 

There are reasons people use programs like bidnapper . . .

If you see something you just have to have, bid double what you think it's worth. But don't be surprised when you still get out bid. 




Absolutely. If you _REALLY_ want a hard-to-find item, you might have to place an _uncomfortably _high bid to secure it. You especially will want to use the bidnapper under those circumstances.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 06 Jan 2010 08:08 PM 
If there is something I really want if will follow the last second countdown and but a bid in with 8 seconds to go. Just plain old sniping, no fancy software needed. 



-Brian 



How I have done it for ten years, just "babysit" the auction for the last few seconds and jump. Worked on everything from train stuff to art glass to rare/import music to a couple cars!

On occasion, if I am not going to be home at the time of the auction, I "may" put my max bid on something and leave. In about 20-25% of the time, I might win the item, generally, someone will hit my max with several small bids, LONG before the end of the auction.

Honestly, I never understood bidding on something DAYS before the auction?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am Guilty. I have done what you discribe. But What I do is put the item in my " Watch this bid" list. Then I monitor the bidding. If at the end time the price is with in my limits. Then where there is less than a minute before the close of the auction I post me bid. For example. If the price is 25 bucks. I will bid Thirty, if that is what I am willing to pay. Some times I win Some times I loose. If you loose the other guy has to pay what you were willing to pay or close to it. 

Usually if I win I end up paying a few cents more than the last bid.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

J.J. yer too early at 1 minute the ol'e Evil Bay will get you every time!! Hah LOL Regal


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I never understood bidding on something DAYS before the auction? 
I agree. Why bid before the last moment?


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## pageeddie (Nov 2, 2008)

Having sat and watched the last minute bid I'd made overtaken at the last second, I got curious and after investigating found out about this thing called sniping. 
Since then I have used www.auctionsniper.com and very useful it has proved too... I can set my bid at my limit for the item and let auction sniper monitor the bidding 
I get email if the bid on Ebay has exceeded my max bid set on auction sniper, but the best bit is that I'm not dependent on sitting by the computer at the time the auction ends as the auction sniper bid can be set days in advance 
Works for me .......


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 07 Jan 2010 08:54 AM 
I never understood bidding on something DAYS before the auction?
I agree. Why bid before the last moment? 
The two thoughts I bet are those that do not understand the watch list, or the people that somehow think they will get an LGB Orient Express set for $25....


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 06 Jan 2010 08:16 PM 

Honestly, I never understood bidding on something DAYS before the auction?
The only time I've placed a bid well before the auction end is if I know I won't be at a computer (and I guess internet phones now too) at the time of the auction end. Say it ends while I'm at work, on vacation, etc...


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

But then again if everyone would wait till the last ditch moment Evil Bay would really have a mess on der hands eh????? Hee Hee The biggest idiots are the ones who drive the bid up past what would be a legitimate offer or reasonable price on things or fair for that matter. I find when I sell something I never even get the average or fair price its always the lower where money is lost, and then next day or week or whenever the same item I just took a loss on will come up and go three times or double what I felt was a fair price!! Story of my life!!! Regal 


p.s. I have used bidnapper and it works! Having said that I found I can almost do the same thing myself for free too if you have the time to do it!! Its around $35 for 6 mos. of unlimited bidding. And here's a little tip fer all of ya that want to save a few? They will give you 15 free bids to try out to see if you like it or not no obligation but it is not well known they do this or if they still do it has been a couple of years since I used it but I know here about a little over a year ago they were offering it!!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have sold used automotive shop manuals (grease stains and all) for more than what they can be found new. 

eBay is a strange place. 

Years ago near Christmas, there was a 1980s LGB catalog, at base price, ($5 or so) but ten or so bids, so no advacement of the dollar amount. Sure enough, the one bidder had put MANY proxy bids on it. I guess they REALLY wanted that catalog? 

I had no interest in bidding on it, but if they put that many proxy bids in, I decided (thanks to the power of beer) to have some fun. I kept hitting it up $1 a pop. 

When I chickened out near the end, the listing ended around $30 or so, and they still had 5-6 proxy bids above my last ale fueled fun!


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

And that's fun how? Sticking it to strangers is really low on my recreation list.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

You haven't lived until you been fleeced on the "Evil Bay" No Really happens every once in awhile to me! Not fun at all believe me! Just keep truckin on my list has about 15 people I will do NO more business with for sure!! Some of the names would surprise you!! Regal


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I am cornfuzed...

I thought that e-bay had an automatic bid system where you enter both your initial bid and a maximum amount.

If someone out-bid your initial amount then the system would automatically increase your bid by $1.00 (or some amount you could set in addition to your initial and max bids) and resubmit your new bid.

If two (or more) people do this then the bid automatically would ramp up to the max bid of one of the bidders.

How can "sniping", either manually or automatically via some external software, work to defeat this e-bay bidding system?

I have been under the impression (wrongfully I guess) that even if someone "sniped" the bid in the last second, the system would automatically outbid them if someone had a higher "MAX" set in their bid.

I'd be bent outta shape if the bid was sitting at, say $10.00 and it got sold at a snipe bid of $10.50, if I had a "MAX" set at $20.00!!!!! It should have automatically "out-sniped" the last minute bid by another $0.50 and I get it at $11.00!


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

The system is set up so the person with the highest maximum bid wins. 

What Garett is speaking of are people that bid $5.00 today, then tomorrow up their own bid to $6.00, then Up it again the following day to $7.00. This shows up as 3 bids, even though the Original minimum bid of $1.00 is still considered the high bid. This happens when someone else placed a bid and the original guy thinks, oh, I've got competition, I better raise my bid. What causes this? people who can't decide how much they are willing to pay for the item and stick with it. 

Fact is the person that bids highest wanted it the most. It really doesn't matter if you bid the minute the item is listed or in the last 15 seconds before the auction ends, you're only going to win if you bid the most. 

Randy


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 07 Jan 2010 04:17 PM 
The system is set up so the person with the highest maximum bid wins. 

What Garett is speaking of are people that bid $5.00 today, then tomorrow up their own bid to $6.00, then Up it again the following day to $7.00. This shows up as 3 bids, even though the Original minimum bid of $1.00 is still considered the high bid. This happens when someone else placed a bid and the original guy thinks, oh, I've got competition, I better raise my bid. What causes this? people who can't decide how much they are willing to pay for the item and stick with it. 

Fact is the person that bids highest wanted it the most. It really doesn't matter if you bid the minute the item is listed or in the last 15 seconds before the auction ends, you're only going to win if you bid the most. 

Randy 

I can believe that people do not use the e-bay provided bid system because they do not trust e-bay to not just jump their bid to the max even if no one else has bid. This should show up in the bid history, but I guess people are still afraid of it.

I have used the e-bay method a couple of times (I seldom do any bidding, but usually use the Buy-It-Now) and once my Max of $10.00 was immediately outbid and the item went for well over $100.00. Another time I got the item well below my Max, so I know that, at least that time, e-bay did not do any shennangans with the bids.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

You can outbid the snipers if you are quick enough at the last moment!! And Vaporo your outta shape that little diddy happens more than naught!!! I have outbid people and have been outbid by 1 to two pennies at times by slamming in a bid and someone else just happend to outbid me by that much either automatic or slamming!! Isn't Evil Bay fun!! sometimes yes and most times NO!!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have lost last secons bidding because the guy I was bidding against Max was still higher than mine. I have done last minute bidding where the last bid was 25 bucks I entered my last bidd of 30 bucks seconds before the bidding ends and and only Paid 26.01 because the guys max was 25.01. Like I said I put the things I am intersted in on my watch list. If I happen to be on line and the bid ends and I can bid I will. But I do not loose sleep at night monitoring auctions.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

For me, Sniping is a double edged sword. On one hand, I have the possibility to win the item for some amount less than an all out bidding war. On the other hand, if I snipe with my max bid with only seconds to go, it leaves me no time to change my mind and bid more than I want to. Auctions can be a dangerous place if you are not careful. 

Bob C.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, and you can track the dates of the bid to see when placed. 

So if the bidding is sitting at $40, but you bid $45 with three seconds to go, you may still be beat by a days old bid of $46, because you did not beat his proxy (say $50). 

As for the multi proxy bids....like most things, eBay is easy to figure out. It was 11 or so years ago when I joined, ten years on my current ID, and amazingly, other than some added features, it really has changed very little since. Even with the now hidden bidders, you can still catch the occasional shill bidder. Just reported one the other day. 

The funny part, in all those years and 400+ sales and purchases here and abroad, my only "problem" was a seller that died a month ago. Still waiting for my refund, apparenly eBay support did not understand what "seller has died" means!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

I can believe that people do not use the e-bay provided bid system because they do not trust e-bay to not just jump their bid to the max even if no one else has bid. This should show up in the bid history, but I guess people are still afraid of it.

I have used the e-bay method a couple of times (I seldom do any bidding, but usually use the Buy-It-Now) and once my Max of $10.00 was immediately outbid and the item went for well over $100.00. Another time I got the item well below my Max, so I know that, at least that time, e-bay did not do any shennangans with the bids.





C.T.

As an ex-eBay seller, I'm very certain eBay is _not _'slamming' or jumping a bid on their own. First, they're a publicly-traded corporation, and that kind of activity would get them in hot water with the FTC (probably) or some agency that is very well equipped to monitor such things intelligently. 'Bid slamming' is an old fairy tale passed around by sore losers or those w/o knowledge of how things work. Second, if they actually did, and it was proven, you could hear the 'ba-woosh!' as eBay went down the toilet. At the same time it was headed for court.

What commonly happens is just this: a person gets outbid. Let's say I'm bidding against you and we are the top two contenders, having left the threadbare folk far behind. The last seconds tick up, and let's pretend that your and my clocks are set the same (which is nigh impossible) and at the last two seconds, we both somehow hit the 'enter' key simultaneously with our bid. Except. Except I may have a faster computer. There may the a cleaner path through the hubs of the 'net between me and eBay. (Not real sure this is correct, but think it is) or there may be some slight millisecond of hesitation inside eBay's servers. So, I win and you sit there thinking, "How could I have lost???" If you're a sore loser, you'll start yelling about it. But it's nothing more than timing. For all I know, a person's O/S might be faster than another's, but again, not sure.

I happen to think Garrett's playing around with some guy on the bid is funny. I've been known to do that after a few cold ones, it makes for a harmless bit of excitement, after all, we're not bidding on air to breathe--though we might have to if the carbon credits come to pass. But for what I really want, I sit down and carefully think of the top dollar it might bring, then add my own 'gotta have' price and put that in for the hidden part. That's how I got my LGB steam dummy. I was above the then- going price by at least twenty bucks, and I won easily. The seller was effusive in his thanks. I still look at that thing sitting on my shelf and smile, it's so ungainly it's neat. It won't work on my RR era, but I suspect it'll get run.









Les


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

But if there is some item for sale and I have opened the bid at $1.00 with a Max of $10.00 and nobody bids until the last 10 seconds and then 100 people all bid $1.01 and another 20 people try to out snipe the other snipers by bidding $1.02 and yet another 10 people try to out snipe the other snippy snipers by bidding $1.10 and yet one more person trys to out snipe the persnickety snipers by bidding $1.99, won't I still get it at $2.00 since I have a Max of $10.00??? Doesn't that make it that all the persnickety snippy snipers are just wasting their time completely? 

Seems to me that sniping only works if the last bidder is at their Max value (whether placed manually or via the automatic bidsmanship of the e-bay system). 

I guess it must work at least sometimes since so many people claim to be winning bids by using the practice. 

Personally, I bid the max amount I am willing to pay and if the bid goes over that, whether immediately or in the last second it doesn't matter. If you are willing to pay One Cent more than I am willing then you can have it. 

I will say that all that sniping seems to create is an atmosphere of anger for the people that are watching their "winning" bid get "Stolen" from them after they have watched it for hours, days, or weeks. I get the feeling that the people that do the sniping get a perverse feeling of satisfaction that they have hurt the feelings of the person that they sniped. 

If e-bay were mine to operate, bidding would continue until the last bid has been posted for 7 days. Snipe all you want... a late bid would just keep the auction open another 7 days. Ain't that the way a real auction with a human auctioneer bemumbling the numbers in an unintellegent bellow works?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 07 Jan 2010 07:37 PM 


Seems to me that sniping only works if the last bidder is at their Max value (whether placed manually or via the automatic bidsmanship of the e-bay system). 


If e-bay were mine to operate, bidding would continue until the last bid has been posted for 7 days. Snipe all you want... a late bid would just keep the auction open another 7 days. Ain't that the way a real auction with a human auctioneer bemumbling the numbers in an unintellegent bellow works? 

Yes, see my example above. If you do not beat the proxy, no win.

eBay would fail quickly if such a change were made, it could take forever for any auction to end. Most interweb auctions are time not bid based. Hence the allowance of proxy bids (vs. proxy bidders...







). And all there is in a real auction is a call for more bids, not a time period for it.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 07 Jan 2010 07:37 PM 


I will say that all that sniping seems to create is an atmosphere of anger for the people that are watching their "winning" bid get "Stolen" from them after they have watched it for hours, days, or weeks. I get the feeling that the people that do the sniping get a perverse feeling of satisfaction that they have hurt the feelings of the person that they sniped. 



No, just a feeling of "I won it", and got it honestly with the max amount I was willing to bid. If the other guy won it, he got it with the honest bid that he put in prior to that.

It can put a seller on pins and needles, I had some high dollar vintage race car parts that were going for nearly nothing....but bumped up over $300 in the last seconds.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm sorry, but every time this discussion about eBay comes up, the thing that amuses me most is all this back and forth about what's "Fair" & "Unfair." As far as I have ever seen in any of them, it has a heck of a lot more to do with 'ego' than with the 'item' sought.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

A trick to using the autobidder is not to give it an even number. If you're willing to pay 50 bucks for something, and tell the autobidder 50 bucks, somebody's going to get it for 50.10 'cause they said 50.25. Tell it, say 50.79 and you'll likely get it for 50.35. Then just walk away. If somebody gets it for 51, say "rats." That's part of the game. If it annoys you, but elsewhere. If somebody gets it for 75, say, "wow, did they get ripped!" You never really know what's going to happen at an auction. 

So how's come people never bid crazy on something I'm selling? It takes 2 nuts. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...:MESELX:IT 
(I goofed on this posting and might wind up giving this away.) 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...:MESELX:IT


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## Jim Schulz (Aug 10, 2009)

Remember the old adage: A product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I would say, thanks for the "nutty" bidders out there who purchase our products. That's good 'ol fashioned capitalism, the basis for our US economy. Sometimes I strike out with items I list, sometimes I'm overjoyed. Bottom line: A product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. 

Here's to a New Year's economic recovery! 

Jim


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 08 Jan 2010 06:54 AM 
I'm sorry, but every time this discussion about eBay comes up, the thing that amuses me most is all this back and forth about what's "Fair" & "Unfair." As far as I have ever seen in any of them, it has a heck of a lot more to do with 'ego' than with the 'item' sought.









How so?


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Jim Schulz on 08 Jan 2010 08:49 AM 
Remember the old adage: A product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. I would say, thanks for the "nutty" bidders out there who purchase our products. That's good 'ol fashioned capitalism, the basis for our US economy. Sometimes I strike out with items I list, sometimes I'm overjoyed. Bottom line: A product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. 

Here's to a New Year's economic recovery! 

Jim 




Jim,

You wrote: 'Remember the old adage: A product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it."

You're exactly right, in a free market. But so many have been taught for so long that "it is unfair" to take a high price for an item by fair means. That is the groundwork for the socialist system we see being installed now. Just *who *gets to decide what the 'fair' price is, is never stated, but it's taken to mean some regulatory body _in a socialist economy._ A bidding war is not so different from an open sports competition, though the comparison is very flawed. One person will win the bid, everyone else will lose the bid. There can be gloating winners and sore losers, but so long as the playing field was level, the highest bidder won. But the socialist mentality has also been taught that 'everyone should be equal'. That witless piece of garbage flies in the very face of life as we know it on this planet. (The same ones--those who want 'fairness'-- incidentally, also think that evolution, as defined by 'survival of the fittest' is okay. Go figure). I _think_ it was G.K. Chesterson who said, "In Communism, Man opresses Man. In Capitalism, it is the other way around."

The simpleminded idea that this world is a fair place is totally unrealistic, and the inherent unfairness was one of the first principles I taught my kids. I also taught them how to look out for it and how to avoid being taken advantage of.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 08 Jan 2010 06:54 AM 
I'm sorry, but every time this discussion about eBay comes up, the thing that amuses me most is all this back and forth about what's "Fair" & "Unfair." As far as I have ever seen in any of them, it has a heck of a lot more to do with 'ego' than with the 'item' sought.












There are minds out there that seem to work something like this: "IF I can steal it and not get caught, or get it by any other means, just or unjust, so long as *I* get it, it's fair--and they're just sad suckers." Conversely the same mind views loss as, "Those greedy crooks cheat! They don't play fair, because *I *didn't get it at *my* price! Such dirty rotten greedy people! They didn't give *me* what *I *wanted and deserve!" Condensed to: "If I win, it's fair. If I lose, it's unfair and the other guy's a born rotter." (I like that old British word.)

That's the kind of mind that drives me up the wall.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Garrett posted: "The funny part, in all those years and 400+ sales and purchases here and abroad, my only "problem" was a seller that died a month ago. Still waiting for my refund, apparenly eBay support did not understand what "seller has died" means!"

You should verify for yourself, but I _think_ Paypal (which eBay owns) can legally hold your money for 120 days before refunding.

Les


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 08 Jan 2010 12:35 PM 
Posted By SteveC on 08 Jan 2010 06:54 AM 
I'm sorry, but every time this discussion about eBay comes up, the thing that amuses me most is all this back and forth about what's "Fair" & "Unfair." As far as I have ever seen in any of them, it has a heck of a lot more to do with 'ego' than with the 'item' sought.









How so? Rather simple really, if I'm looking for a sure thing for something that I wish to purchase. I don't go to an auction, unless of course it happens to have a 'Buy It Now' tag. I'd be looking at an on-line eCommerce store or one of the conventional brick & mortar type places. Once there I make up my mind as to whether I think the asking price for the item is reasonable, and can I afford to part with that amount of funds. If I come up with a 'No' to either question, then I may approach the business and inquire if that's the lowest price they'll accept. If they reply that's the best they can do. I'm on my way, it's their business (and their money at risk) and they get to set the rules and prices.

If on the other hand, I decide to take a chance and enter an auction in an attempt to acquire the item of interest. First off, I make sure I understand the rules of the game, then I decide what I feel the item is worth to me. After that I take my chances just like everybody else. If I luck out and acquire the item for the amount I set going in, or maybe something less, then I'm satisfied. If on the other hand someone else wins the item, then either they were better at playing the game than I was, or they were willing to pay more than I was willing to pay, such is life. In any event I'm not going to cry in my beer because I didn't win, any more than I'm apt to crow like a rooster because I won. I'm just still in search of that particular item to purchase, it's not the wining or losing that's important to me, it's the item that I'm attempting to acquire. If I didn't get the item here I'll get it some place else, or maybe figure a way to make what I need instead.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

In my case how I bid is something I do on my own!! I do what I do and let the dice roll!! If I win I win and If I lose, I lose, but mostly I have won! My percentages are up there! I still watch and wait, and do that on certain items I'm interested in but as others have said I don't lose any sleep over winning or losing. I don't do the "Evil Bay" like I used to or as frequently, but I'm there when I want to be or need to be!! LOL The Regal 








Float like a butterfly and sting like a chainsaw hee hee the Enforcer is always lurking!!! Hee Hee


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Something else you need to consider when bidding on an auction item or even using buy it now. That is the shipping cost. If you find an item you want and the max you can spend is say $50.00, you need to figure in the shipping cost. If the shipping is $10.00 you can bid $40.00 for the item. But if the shipping is $8.00 then you can bid $42.00. You have to pay attention to the shipping cost and the type shipping being provided. I've seen items that normally can be shipped for $10.00 have a shipping charge of $35.00. 

The biggest gripe I have with sellers on Ebay are the ones that put a reserve on their item. If you want $50.00 for it, list it at $50.00 minimum bid. 
Don't list it at $1.00 and leave the bidder not knowing if they're wasting there time or not. 

Another thing, whether you're looking at auction items or buy it now, you need to check the pricing for the same item at an online dealer. A lot of the brand new current items for sale on ebay can be purchased at a lower cost from one of the internet dealers like Trainworld, St Aubins or RLD etc. If you're looking to buy an item that is no longer produced and not available in stores, then you can expect to pay more.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 08 Jan 2010 04:06 PM 
Something else you need to consider when bidding on an auction item or even using buy it now. That is the shipping cost. If you find an item you want and the max you can spend is say $50.00, you need to figure in the shipping cost. If the shipping is $10.00 you can bid $40.00 for the item. But if the shipping is $8.00 then you can bid $42.00. You have to pay attention to the shipping cost and the type shipping being provided. I've seen items that normally can be shipped for $10.00 have a shipping charge of $35.00. 

The biggest gripe I have with sellers on Ebay are the ones that put a reserve on their item. If you want $50.00 for it, list it at $50.00 minimum bid. 
Don't list it at $1.00 and leave the bidder not knowing if they're wasting there time or not. 

Another thing, whether you're looking at auction items or buy it now, you need to check the pricing for the same item at an online dealer. A lot of the brand new current items for sale on ebay can be purchased at a lower cost from one of the internet dealers like Trainworld, St Aubins or RLD etc. If you're looking to buy an item that is no longer produced and not available in stores, then you can expect to pay more. 



Both good points. That reserve price thing is a big irritant. I avoid those kind of auctions. As to your second point, new g-scale items typically sell more on Ebay than if they were purchased through an internet dealer.  The value of Ebay is in finding a_ rare   _item. I have spent a lot[/i] of money on rare items through Ebay, but I got exactly what I wanted.  And, as you pointed out before, if you really want it, bid high and hope like **** you don't have to pay that price. More often than not, someone else wants it just as badly as you do, so those rare items can bring about some highly competitive bidding.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 08 Jan 2010 03:06 PM 
Posted By Spule 4 on 08 Jan 2010 12:35 PM 
Posted By SteveC on 08 Jan 2010 06:54 AM 
I'm sorry, but every time this discussion about eBay comes up, the thing that amuses me most is all this back and forth about what's "Fair" & "Unfair." As far as I have ever seen in any of them, it has a heck of a lot more to do with 'ego' than with the 'item' sought.









How so? Rather simple really, if I'm looking for a sure thing for something that I wish to purchase. I don't go to an auction, unless of course it happens to have a 'Buy It Now' tag. I'd be looking at an on-line eCommerce store or one of the conventional brick & mortar type places. Once there I make up my mind as to whether I think the asking price for the item is reasonable, and can I afford to part with that amount of funds. If I come up with a 'No' to either question, then I may approach the business and inquire if that's the lowest price they'll accept. If they reply that's the best they can do. I'm on my way, it's their business (and their money at risk) and they get to set the rules and prices.



it's not the wining or losing that's important to me, it's the item that I'm attempting to acquire. If I didn't get the item here I'll get it some place else, or maybe figure a way to make what I need instead.

True, knowing what you are doing is critical. Check past closing bids to see what the item is selling for, see if another vendor (off eBay) has it at the same or cheaper price, etc. There has been many a time when I find something on eBay, I can find it somewhere cheaper, even sometimes from the SAME vendor (1AAuto is a good example).

As for the BIN, I have made the occasional "smoking deal" on that, but often it is a high price listed. I have sold some stuff myself, some right at a price that was low just to move it, or, one time I put a car up that was somewhat "desirable" at the time for $2K BIN, well above its book value. Sure enough, within eight hours, sold, and within a week, a guy from KY is in my driveway and one hundred, two hundred.....

There are some that find sport in winning for sure, have seen the stupid occasional items on any forum where a $5 item gets bid up to $200 because of a bidder ego war.

Me? The satisfaction of getting something at the price I wanted to pay, no more, no less. I probably watch 50+ items to every one I bid on, and probably win less than 50% of those for the steps above.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 08 Jan 2010 02:30 PM 
Garrett posted: "The funny part, in all those years and 400+ sales and purchases here and abroad, my only "problem" was a seller that died a month ago. Still waiting for my refund, apparenly eBay support did not understand what "seller has died" means!"

You should verify for yourself, but I _think_ Paypal (which eBay owns) can legally hold your money for 120 days before refunding.

Les


Les, even more basic than that! 

Tried to file the dispute with eBay, but apparently there is a waiting period. I figure fine for most cases to allow shipping time (it has been three weeks already), but when the guy (a past big dealer of O and large scale items on eBay) had died, no replies to e-mail, no telephone answer, etc., thought I would go on and start the process. Plus he still had 2000 odd items on eBay in his store with people buying items daily, and eBay and several buyers are going to get screwed out of PayPal money and his listing fees.

So I get on eBay help/chat and ask what I need to do to start the process of filing "a dispute when the seller has died"?

The reply? "What do you mean by "died""?

_shudder..... _I send a link to his Obit.

It took them about another week and a dozen negative FBs to have them close his account.

THEN I get an e-mail from eBay saying that I should not pay him because of "inapropriate activity" or something of that nature with his account? 

Just this weekend, I got an e-mail asking if he had replied to the dispute. 

My reply? Nope, still dead....


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

My reply? Nope, still dead....





ROFLAO!


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Guys, I haven't tuned in in a while and this thread looked interesting having done a fair amount of ebaying myself. If you think e-bay is unfair then you're a socialist? Hmm, interesting perspective...have to give that one some thought. Is sniping unfair? No different than the guy who happens to come across an auction that's moments away from finishing and besides to bid. Why snipe? because there are folks who do not bid the most they would be willing to pay until someone bids higher than there original low bid. Suppose I see something that I would pay $100 for and the current high bid is $25. I see it and say "wow I could get that for a little more than $25". So I only bid $30 and wa-la I'm the high bidder. So now I'm happy thinking I'm going to win this item and I didn't have to bid the $100 (that I would have been willing to pay). Some sniper out there see's the item and he's willing to pay $50 but he waits until the last 10 seconds because if he bids the $50 now, he knows I might see that he is now the high bidder at $31 and say " darn, thought I was going to get that $100 item for $30, guess I'll have to raise my bid. By not bidding untill the last moment, he doesn't give the "gee I would have bid more's" a chance to do just that.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

As has been explained here...sniping doesn't beat a guy with a higher bid on eBay. What sniping does is suppress the number of bids while the auction is in progress. It makes it look to other prospective buyers that there is little interest in the item...that's because your snipe bid is NOT posted yet. Many a time I've bid early on an item...and I only bid once...my maximum price...and I lose to the guy that makes a bid...learns he isn't the top bidder...so he raises his bid...and repeats that till he "beats me". That activity draws other folks who see the "9 bids" on this item...and, to the seller's benefit...off the price goes.


If I'd done the same thing with a snipe bidding system, the guy that likes to up his bid till he wins, loses. He's got no target to "top".

A second advantage of snipe bidding is queued snipe bidding. I've done this for all kinds of stuff...especially home improvement products I need. For example, I'll find 7 sources of the identical product on ebay...7 different eBay items for sale...and I'll put in a queued bid for the 7 items. The bids are queued by the close time of the 7 items. So, if I lose the first three items by being outbid, I might win the 4th...or 5th...whatever. If I win the 4th bid, then the 5th though 7th are dumped from the queue. 


I've used this once when I needed a specific Aristo switch...there are always multiple eBay offers for the specific switch I needed. So I posted ONE queued snipe bid for that switch at a price a bit above what the lowest winning price has been...and just wait. Might take a week...and I might win one of the several auctions...and I might not. But, in each case, I'm bidding the same amount...the biggest amount I am willing to pay.


The only way a seller can protect himself from lowball sniping is to set his initial price at the price he's really willing to sell the item for...or set a reserved price. For a seller, both are bad deals FOR SURE...because eBay charges are partially based on the initially listed price...or fees for having a reserved price. And...if they set the initial price too high...or set a reserve price...they pay even if it doesn't sell. That's why so much stuff starts at $1.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 08 Jan 2010 07:02 PM 
Hi Guys, I haven't tuned in in a while and this thread looked interesting having done a fair amount of ebaying myself. If you think e-bay is unfair then you're a socialist? Hmm, interesting perspective...have to give that one some thought. 





Sailbode,

Since I think I'm the only one who used 'socialist', let me condense: the type of person who complains about eBay bidding being 'unfair' is also the type who is fertile ground for planting 'socialist'--i.e. 'noncompetivite' dogma into business transactions _as has been taught since the 1920's at least_. The best way to engage in any business transaction is to be as unemotional and as informed as possible. An auction is competitive. The person who complains is not necessarily a socialist, but he's expressing emotions not suitable for a 'free-market', winner-take-all system. That's all on that. I'm done with that track. It's going where I won't.









Les


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Les, not really wanting to go there either...here in this forum anyway. I'll simply respond with "I agree!"
Don


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Having both bought AND sold on feebay, I've learned a lot about people. Mostly that they enjoy griping. Also that they are happiest when they think they are screwing somebody else. 

Set the minimum at what you're actually willing to take, and you get 25 emails calling you a crook because somebody else started theirs a 99c. Set a 50c handling fee to cover tape and getting the stupid package 5 miles to the PO and you get called a chiseler... even on a $500 item. Set a reasonable reserve, and you get a few asking what the reserve IS, and a bunch more bad mouthing you because their $5 bid on a $500 item didn't meet the reserve. 

Had a listing for my '68 Fury convertible. HONEST description, that I was selling it for what the 440 and transmission were worth because the unibody subframe is shot.... This guy wins, then starts trying to get me to take LESS (a LOT less) because he really wanted a '69, and supposedly somehow missed me mentioning something like 6 times that it was NOT drivable.... Then had the nerve to fight me about him being a non-paying bidder (to try to get my fees back, which I never did) 

For every crooked seller there are 100 or more, maybe even 1000 'buyers' trying to scam people. Chargebacks after you've shipped is the most common, fake MOs, Fake bank drafts, bogus complaints to feebay and paypain (who reaches into your account and steals the money while they go through MONTHS of bull flop "investigating", so that your rent check bounces... 

MOST of the time, till you add up all the various fees. they make more money on your stuff than you do because the buyers are looking for bargains, and are not inclined to pay a fair price for ANYTHING (rare or not). But you still have listing fees, final valuation fees, reserve fees, listing design fees, extra photo fees, gallery fees, paypal fees, yada yada.... 

And woe to the seller who mis estimates shipping. If you've guessed too low, tough sh__, you eat it. If you guess too high, either they won't bid or they want you to refund the difference, OR they'll give you NEGATIVE FEEDBACK.... 

These aren't me whining, gentleman, these are FACTS, and common, scams, not the rare exception. Read the seller's forums if you don't believe. And Ebay could give a rat's rump as long as they get their fees. This is also why I'll throw all my stuff in the dumpster before I'll sell another item on evilbay as anything other than a 30 day BiN listing with as-is no refund and REQUIRED insurance and tracking.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Addictions do have negative side effects. 

Something I will never suffer from. At least not from E Bay.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 09 Jan 2010 08:22 PM 

MOST of the time, till you add up all the various fees. they make more money on your stuff than you do because the buyers are looking for bargains, and are not inclined to pay a fair price for ANYTHING (rare or not). But you still have listing fees, final valuation fees, reserve fees, listing design fees, extra photo fees, gallery fees, paypal fees, yada yada.... 







Mik,

THe above that you posted is precisely why wife & I decided to quit. Ebay was literally making as much or more than we were/item. Everything else you said is true, by our own experience.

I've been selling a few of my excess tools 'n whatnot on Craig's List. For all the rotten stuff you hear, I've got to wonder. It's been pretty nice--so far.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 09 Jan 2010 10:45 PM 


Posted By Mik on 09 Jan 2010 08:22 PM 

MOST of the time, till you add up all the various fees. they make more money on your stuff than you do because the buyers are looking for bargains, and are not inclined to pay a fair price for ANYTHING (rare or not). But you still have listing fees, final valuation fees, reserve fees, listing design fees, extra photo fees, gallery fees, paypal fees, yada yada.... 


Mik,

THe above that you posted is precisely why wife & I decided to quit. Ebay was literally making as much or more than we were/item. Everything else you said is true, by our own experience.

I've been selling a few of my excess tools 'n whatnot on Craig's List. For all the rotten stuff you hear, I've got to wonder. It's been pretty nice--so far.



That was my conclusion. Ebay was making the easy money on me as a SELLER, especially considering the amount of work I put in to setting up my products for sale on Ebay. I concluded it was simply not worthwhile. I STILL maintain, however, that for that unusual or rare item, Ebay is the first place to check. I have built up a large part of my railroad empire, among other things, finding what I sought on Ebay.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 09 Jan 2010 11:07 PM 
Posted By Les on 09 Jan 2010 10:45 PM 


Posted By Mik on 09 Jan 2010 08:22 PM 

MOST of the time, till you add up all the various fees. they make more money on your stuff than you do because the buyers are looking for bargains, and are not inclined to pay a fair price for ANYTHING (rare or not). But you still have listing fees, final valuation fees, reserve fees, listing design fees, extra photo fees, gallery fees, paypal fees, yada yada.... 


Mik,

THe above that you posted is precisely why wife & I decided to quit. Ebay was literally making as much or more than we were/item. Everything else you said is true, by our own experience.

I've been selling a few of my excess tools 'n whatnot on Craig's List. For all the rotten stuff you hear, I've got to wonder. It's been pretty nice--so far.



That was my conclusion. Ebay was making the easy money on me as a SELLER, especially considering the amount of work I put in to setting up my products for sale on Ebay. I concluded it was simply not worthwhile. I STILL maintain, however, that for that unusual or rare item, Ebay is the first place to check. I have built up a large part of my railroad empire, among other things, finding what I sought on Ebay. 






Ron,

I couldn't agree more that eBay is the first choice for unusual or rare items. It's also not bad for general-purpose train buying. For those like me, stuck miles from any train store (as opposed to a hobby shop--i.e. where trains are the focus) it's darn near necessary if you want to buy 'cheap (?)' in order to see, feel, heft in your own hands an engine/car.

Ebay doesn't make the least effort to take care of their dealers. They've carried the notion too far that 'the customer is always right'. We who've hoed the row know differently.

I still buy on eBay, but rarely.

Les


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Because the seller is not looking you in the eye, I think there is a much greater tendency for deceitfulness. Knowing that going in, you should be on your guard. I've completed close to 200 transactions and have had one or two issues. Pay-Pal came through for me on one of them. Otherwise, people are people, and there are always a few bad apples. 

As a seller, being very clear with my descriptions and reasonable with shipping charges is probably why I still enjoy a 100% feed back rating.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 08 Jan 2010 06:16 PM 
My reply? Nope, still dead....





ROFLAO!


Well, I got my return from the dead finally. And got the item from another vendor about the same time.

So it goes................................................


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

There are 3 kinds of eBayers 
Rule of thirds 

The GOOD 
The BAD 
And the UGLY 

Which makes only a third of them tolerable. 
The worlds greatest virtual ratrace 

Andrew


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Andy 
From my experience, approx 80% of e-bayers will be decent folks, but watch out for that 20% cause they are bad to the bone. 
D


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

sailbode 

That is probably a fairer score. 
I must admit most transactions as a buyer I have had, the people have been fairly honest. 
They do tend so stretch the reality by one degree though. 
Therefore, C8 = C7. 
VGC = GC. 
Displayed only = Test run from time to time. 
Very Rare = Common as cat dung. 
2-8-0 = 2-6-0. 
Steamer = Diesel. (Last 2, only joking) 

So, do ask definative questions, like when buying from a train discounter. 

Andrew


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