# Decoder with shuttle and station stop features



## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi

I am looking at various decoders from Massoth, Zimo and Uhlenbrock and trying to decipher the inbuilt station stopping abilities of the decoders. I am really keen to have a few wires as possible and to have a timed stop feature.

Uhlenbrock 77500 (no sound) has the ability to use track magnets to manage shuttle control (timed) and intermediate stops (timed).

Massoth LS has the ability to use track magnets to manage shuttle control (timed) but does NOT seem to support intermediate stops.

Zimo 645 has the ability to use asymmetric DCC for stopping but I am not sure that this is any better than brake-on-DC - which is available on all decoders. 

From the above, the Uhlenbrock seems like the best decoder only solution for timed shuttle and station stop. My only problem with it is that I need to buy a separate sound card which would connect to the susi interface meaning (I think) that I can't add pulsed smoke control.

If the Massoth LS had timed intermediate stops controllable by track magnets it would seem to be the best option.

Am I missing something?


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Actually, answering myself, if I understand it correctly, it seems the Massoth needs an additional automatic shuttle model to work with lots of wiring to track contacts. So that's a fail.


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## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

SUSI supports three different ranges of CVs, so it should be possible to connect 3 SUSI modules to one decoder. Massoth and probably others make a one to three SUSI adapter cable. Lenz also support Asymetric DCC http://www.digital-plus.de/e/digitalplus-abc.php


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Yes thanks I just read about SUSI supporting three devices. I was expecting to be able to daisy chain them. That is, plug the sound card into the motor decoder SUSI jack and plug the smoke into the sound decoder SUSI jack. Though it wasn't clear whether the SUSI jack on the motor decoder plugged into the SUSI jack on the sound decoder.

Are you saying that I need a one to three adapter cable so that all both the sound decoder and pulse smoke are connected to the motor decoder SUSI jack for it to work? No deal breaker but would be good to know.

The other key question was whether these cards have a "virtual pulse" for the smoke or whether the hall/reed switch set up is critical to synchronise the chuffs (and pulsed smoke) to the motion of the engine.

I also just discovered that the Uhlenbrock cards I am looking at have rebranded Dietz and PIKO equivalents (at higher prices). 

I think I am tending towards this solution.


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Now I read on Greg's site that the Dietz DLE 2M which is a rebranded Uhlenbrock 77500 cannot cope with more than 18 volts at full amperage! http://www.elmassian.com/dcc 

The manual is no help: https://www.uhlenbrock.de/intern/20/1/english/I96EEA64-042.apd/Bes77500e.pdf 

Is this true?? It would seem a bit nuts given this is their highest rated decoder and their Power 8 booster is locked at supplying 22 volts to the track. https://www.uhlenbrock.de/intern/20/1/english/I96EEA64-05E.apd/Bes63280e.pdf


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## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

Yes you need a one to three adapter cable.

Sorry don't know about SUSI smoke units. The SUSI spec does pass lots of information over the SUSI such as speed step info and how hard the loco is working, so with sound it is certainty not essential to use hardware to synchronise the chuffs (although doing so is possible). I would have thought it would be the same with smoke. However best to ask the manufacturer.

If you are looking at the Uhlenbrock 32300 Intellisound SUSI sound decoder (which are excellent in my opinion). They are actually rebadged Dietz units, as are the Piko SUSI sound decoders.

I use Lenz decoders with the Dietz SUSI sound decoder, which is a combination that works very well, and surprisingly is often cheaper than all in one decoders with sound.


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## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

I don't know for sure but I don't believe Uhlenbrock large scale decoders only work up to 18 volts. Again it is best to ask the manufacturer directly. Uhlenbrock told me recently that all of their OO/HO decoders worked up to 24 volts, when I was considering using one in a small G scale loco. Also they would be outside the DCC specs if they only worked to 18 volts.


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Ok I will check with the manufacturer. 

Interested in your experience with using the OO/HO decoder in g scale. I am also looking at getting an Uhlenbrock 77100 which is the HO rated version of the 77500. I am intending to use it in a small LGB handcar. Perfect for using the shuttle function with. 

It was the Intellisound 32300 that I was looking at.


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

There was also this comment from Knut about certain European 3amp decoders that couldn't drive a single LGB motor and seemed not intended to hand voltages above 16v http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aft/124589/afpg/2/Default.aspx 

I will have to check with him as well.


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Continuing the conversation with myself, I see that the new ESU Loksound XL 4.0 has a timed station stop function that can be triggered by track magnets (website mentions it but both the English and German manuals don't clearly refer to it at all - or at least not that I can tell). Big step up in price but it adds quite a few functions like constant stopping distance and ABC braking. It still seems to lack full shuttle control but I can live with that. 

If anyone has any experience using track magnets to trigger timed station stops with the ESU Losound XL 4.0 I would be grateful to hear your experience (even if it is just to confirm that it works!).


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Hmmm .... Automated Station Stops. Wonder where they got that idea ? 18V? No problem. Wer'e good up to 25V.


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Del.. who is we?


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

G-Scale Graphics. See the signature.


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

OK thanks for that contribution.. I need to have standard DCC control as well.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I believe Lenz Gold have a built in shuttle feature.


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Thanks Mike. I was looking at the Lenz Gold today. I seem to be doing a survey of all the manufacturers in my quest to find the right card! 

The Lenz Gold does in indeed have both timed station stop OR shuttle feature depending on how the CV's are set (you cannot have both at once like the Uhlenbrock can manage). The Lenz Gold also has the advantage of the ABC and Constant Distance Breaking. 

My concerns now are trying to pin down some of the concerns raised by others in other threads about (1) whether the decoders will hold up to higher voltages (2) whether they can handle a pulsed smoke generator both per their specs and in practice (3) whether the timed stop features work as advertised (and if so how). 

Overall I am tending towards the ESU Loksound XL 4.0 for the loco/tender combo as it seems to have the potential to do what I need provided I can get some clarity on (2) and (3) above - and understanding exactly how I would about doing it. 

I was actually looking at the Lenz Gold decoder for my small LGB handcar where the shuttle feature (in addition to the timed stop) is critical for me.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Again the beauty of DCC is that you can choose a differnt decoder for each situation. The Lenz may be best for one situation, Zimo for another, LGB, or Massoth for another.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

You may also want to see if Champex-Linden still makes a device for station stops and shuttle. One of the guys in our club has used them for years (sorry Del you're a long ways from being first...)


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes. Poor comment on my part. For sure, I didn't invent station stops, but I am the only one doing it in battery power, as far as I know. I was just surprised to hear these were now features in some DCC systems. Is this new, or has it been around in DCC for awhile?


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Station stops (with switch and train automation) using DCC have been around for a long time using software, or as with the Massoth system you can a lot without the use of any software--it's built in to the central station but you still need sensors on the track for position feedback (which is now wireless). One of the guys in our club does it this way for station sidings and it's amazing how much automation he has going with just his navigator and Dimax central station--it's one of those built in features that don't get discussed when Greg is pushing the cheaper NCE.  
Quite a few of the new decoders can use track magnets to trigger all kinds of need features/actions, not just station stops, so they are advancing very quickly. The old Champex Linden version I was mentioning could be used with track power DC or battery, and did it the way you do with microcontroller etc... 

Keith


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 18 Feb 2014 09:30 AM 
Station stops (with switch and train automation) using DCC have been around for a long time using software, or as with the Massoth system you can a lot without the use of any software--it's built in to the central station but you still need sensors on the track for position feedback (which is now wireless). One of the guys in our club does it this way for station sidings and it's amazing how much automation he has going with just his navigator and Dimax central station--it's one of those built in features that don't get discussed when Greg is pushing the cheaper NCE.  
Quite a few of the new decoders can use track magnets to trigger all kinds of need features/actions, not just station stops, so they are advancing very quickly. The old Champex Linden version I was mentioning could be used with track power DC or battery, and did it the way you do with microcontroller etc... 

Keith 
Can you do like with analog sound systems and trigger bells and whistles?


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Can you do like with analog sound systems and trigger bells and whistles? 

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but if you're asking if you can trigger bells/whistles using a decoder when running analog DC, then the answer is yes. Depending on the decoder, you can program it to play any of the onboard sounds when triggered by something like a track magnet. For example, on the new LGB Allegra with two sensors mounted underneath, you can not only program it to play any sound, you can make it direction dependent. 

Keith


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Just a final update on this for anyone who is still following.

I asked the question on the ESU forum about the timed station stop functionality of the ESU Loksound XL 4 and had it confirmed that - although mentioned as a new function on the website - it is actually not implemented yet. Even then you may need the Lokprogrammer to make it work. The forum members are trying to convince ESU to implement it (along with some other functions)!!

Doesn't give me alot of confidence in the ESU brand!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The Zimo Large scale decoders have 3 input sensors that can be tied to reed switch sensors.
IN3 is primarily used for chuff/speed sensing but could be used for anything such as brake squeal when entering a curve.


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