# BB Wheel sets



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

If you were looking to add BB wheels to a large amount of rolling stock what wheels would you use. Talking about 1/29. Various brands of cars.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To me, a large amount means cost could be a factor. 

That rules out LGB and Train-Li, the best two made. 

That takes you down to Aristo, AML/AMS, and one other I forget. 

I have not done long term testing on the AML/AMS ones, I have on the LGB and Aristo. 

Oh, I think the other ones are San Val.. 

If you don't need to use them to pick up power, the Aristo or AML/AMS ones are good. If you need to pick up a little power, like some lights or a smoker, use the Aristo... anything more and you need the LGB or Train-Li... in my experience. 

Regards, Greg


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

At some point before metals prices skyrocketed I purchased a large batch of the Sanval ones. They are ONLY marketted for better rolling ability and there is NO provision for power take off on those sets. As I've no layout yet I've done no testing myself. The only other sets I ahve are LGB that came on a few piece of roling stock I have. I do not believe that I have any Aristo but I do have a few newer pieces of stock from them (Doodlebug with Passenger car?) that light have them on as well? Again as yet un-tested. 

Chas


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

My un-scientific tests show LGB BB wheels to be vastly superior to the others...And they should be for the cost! I equiped two identical box cars, one with LGB BB wheels, one without. Pushed the BB wheeled car with the non-BB car and let them go, the BB equiped car went farther (a gap formed between them). reversed the cars and the drag of the non-BB car stopped both. Changed out the wheels between the cars and repeated the process...Same results. 

On the San-Val wheels I did the same thing...On a straight section of track the BB-equiped cars had MORE drag than the non-BB cars!!! Swapped wheel sets and got the same results. But when I added a brick for a load test the San-Val BB equiped car had significantly less drag than the standard wheels. 

So for me, I use the LGB BB wheel sets for power pick-up, San-Val BB wheels for heavy cars (Batteries maybe?), and standard San-Val wheels for common rolling stock. I should point out my highly un-scientific test was done using the nickle plated wheels. 

Edit...I should also state my "tests" where done on straight sections of track, I would expect differing results on tight curves.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks for the input guys. Any word on other brands.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I've used Gary Raymond ones and am quite pleased. Just avoid his real fine scale ones, his regular ones track fine.


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## tmmhead (Feb 22, 2008)

Jerry, 

Which Gary Raymond wheels are you using. I just recieved a set for the MTH TIU boxcar that I created last year and while the rolling distance is great the tracking on my line is poor. I suspect that it's the flange height since it's only in some spots and I have not had similiar problems with other cars. Do you recall the part numbers between the regular ones you are using and the fine scale? 

Thanks, 

Tim


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Tim, I got the one with ball bearing pickups to put on my Pioneer Zephyer. I think his web site explains which wheels are fine or not. www.trainwheels.com Can always call him, he will usually call you back. Seems to be a nice guy, in my dealings anyway.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Be aware that some aftermarket wheels are plain steel, and can rust. I think some of the GR ones are. 

Now, it does not mean they WILL rust, different environments yield different results. For me, steel wheels rust. 

Regards, Greg


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## tmmhead (Feb 22, 2008)

Jerry, 

Thanks...I'll have to give Gary a call to find out if I should be have the issues that I mentioned. Can't really tell if the ones I got are fine scale but they were on the higher end price which leads me to believe they are fine scale. 

Tim


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I'll chime in here. All of my rolling stock is equipped with LGB ball bearing wheels. Both for their immensely superior rolling ability, and for their power pickup capability, since I backfeed my locos via the ball bearing wheels on the trailing cars. I have not regretted the decision to do so. Although a large investment, it was made over many years. Thus the pain was in small increments.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I use the Aristo ones and install for my heavy weight pass cars. They make a big difference in rolling resistance and are reasonable priced. Just takes a little time to install by drilling out the journals. Later RJD


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice thing about Gary, is he has wheels in many different sizes.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Changing bunches of cars? 

I'd look at those tiny bearings aristo sells in tubes and just mount them in the trucks. Perchance you could find the Chinese source and get them even cheaper.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Remember that putting ball bearings on the axle tips reduces rolling resistance basically ONLY on the straights. 

On curves, you don't really get the differential action that a real railroad does with the prototype wheel contours. 

So, it's not exactly the same. 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Amen Greg 

I used to buy the single BB sets because they was cheaper and they freed up the wheels on our tighter 20' dia curves , thus the drag. I feel its more important to address drag on curves than on straights. 
20' dia is still too tight compared to the real thing.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

GEEZ!!!

Bubba


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, if you really look at the prototype, and see the contour of the flange, especially the "fillet" the curved part that joins the wheel tread and the flange, you see how it works, but as Marty says, compared to the prototype, even 20' diameter curves are way tighter. 

So, the independent bearings, i.e. the ones where each wheel can run independent of each other, are almost the only way to reduce drag on curves. 

And I agree completely with Marty, the curves is where the "work" is the hardest. 

A long time ago, I think someone made wheels with one wheel having a ball bearing. The idea was the axles already turned in the journal, and then the single wheel would give the "differential" action, but they were never popular. It's likely the difference in friction between plain bearings in the journals and the ball bearing on one wheel made it so there wasn't a noticeable advantage. 

If I could outfit all my cars with the double ball bearings, I would, but wow, how expensive is that? I buy the 40' cars for around $60-$70 (on sale), now adding $30-$40 of ball bearings just does not add up for me. 

So, except for special situations, I just add another loco. 

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I would definitely agree that independent wheels would be the best possible situation, and that cost would double the price of many cars. After extended run time are many seeing plastic wheel bearings in the trucks wear out. The bearings inserted into the truck would cure this, I would think and help some with rolling resistance.


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## Mike O (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, 

I agree with Jerry Barnes that Gary Raymond's wheels are worth a look. He has versions for different manufacturer's trucks, and can be had in different finishes. I also concur that the fine scale wheels look good, but are not necessary. His web site is a bit cryptic so contacting him if you decide to use his wheels would be a good idea. 

Mike


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

There is no doubt that adding ball bearings to you rolling stock cuts the drag by minimum of 80%

This where I got my bearings

http://www.avidrc.com/

I use a 3MMx6MM x2 or 2,5 with a flange.

There is some adjustment that may need to be made to the Axel of the Wheel set

I stuck my axles in a drill and used a fine file to turn down the journal till the bearing fit with some resistance and/or snugly.

I also use Arito Trucks and remove the plastic insert/bearing that is in the journal box of the truck.

This leaves a approximate 6 MM hole. ( How convenient) 




















Of course there is some added maintenance to doing this . You have to clean and lube them every so often.

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can find sealed bearings that keep dirt out somewhat better. 

Also, if you live in a wet environment, you can get SS bearings. 

Of course the extra quality is not free! 

Greg


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 25 Dec 2010 10:34 AM 
I would definitely agree that independent wheels would be the best possible situation, and that cost would double the price of many cars. *After extended run time are many seeing plastic wheel bearings in the trucks wear out*. The bearings inserted into the truck would cure this, I would think and help some with rolling resistance. 



*LGB ball bearing wheel axels do not spin, thus no wear in the journal.
*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Neither does the solution JJ has picked above. 

Did you mean to post this on this thread Dan? 

There was no talk of this on this thread, so I can't see how the comment applies (it's true but it's not relevant to this thread) 

Regards, Greg


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, I took the statement made about plastic wheel bearings wearing out to mean that the hole in the truck that the axel rides in, the journal, was wearing due to the metal against the plastic journal. Did I miss something? I sometimes make mistakes, although it's been so long since my last one, I just give myself a 100% mark for everything







. If I say it enough it must be true.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Dan, I did agree that the ball bearing wheel sets would be the best possible answer to rolling resistance and to preserve journals. But the cost may be prohibitive to many.

So as an alternative would we consider adding ball bearings to the journal. I would think this would at least help with rolling resistance, and to preserve the journal. I was wondering if those with no bearings were seeing their plastic journals wearing.


I will accuse myself of changing from the original question.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

Well this might be a slightly different use case because of the type of cars, but I just recently finished putting bearings in the journals of my set of five J&M heavyweights. These are 1/32 mainly brass heavyweight coaches at about 9 pounds a pop!! And there nicknames are "lead sleds" for a reason! They have 3 axles trucks, where the metal axle ends are in plastic journals. They actually feel fairly free rolling on straights (although you can feel the extensive rubbing/struggling with the weight of the car), but really drag on curves, which I think is due to the length of the trucks and the side force of the wheels on the plastic journals - so you sort of get double drag, i.e., standard downward weight and sideways force - let alone the standard curve drag being discussed here. 

I ordered the bearings from avidrc as well for a buck a piece, chopped up the tack welded frames, drilled out the journal boxes and milled down the axles ends (also with a hand drill and file!). One key thing I did was to cut spacers from brass tubing that fit over the axles ends. These go between the wheel and the moving part of the bearing, keeping the wheels from rubbing on anything and should theoretically be placing that sideways force onto the bearings.

I've only test ran them once so far, but the results were pretty dramatic (again, probably more due to the weight of these cars). With my aster mike, I went from pulling 3 cars with a hand push start (could pull 4 cars, but would run low on steam after 2 laps), to pulling all 5 cars from a stand still with no problems. Now this makes me want more cars tho! 

I'll have to pay more attention next time I run, but I guess there was that standard slight increase of drag on curves, but it didn't seem to make all that much difference. I am now a little curious though to see what split axles or ball bearings on the wheels would have done, but for 2 bucks an axle instead of $12 to $16+ an axle, it was a vast improvement!

-Ray


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I bought a set of USAT 5 car articulated from Stan C that had BB wheels on it. Then I bought two stock sets from Mike Kidman. The drag on those two sets was astronomical. I got me some Aristo trucks and added the bearings for a buck and the differance was noticable less. A lot less. I use Aristo trucks because they are the easiest to convert. 

On some of my older rolling stock I have seen the platic insert show signs of wear. I atributed this to my lack of proper maintainance.


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