# base for live steam indoor layout



## leftyfretguy (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all,
I have some extra track laying around that I would like to use to make a small indoor sceniced layout. I will run electric and live steam so I need a base that will hold up to water and oil. What material can I use? Can I use pressure treated plywood? I have heard that it can come apart over time, but that was on an outdoor layout. What other materials could I use? I would like it to be portable so weight is a factor.
thanks,
Matt


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Ow wow, live steam indoors? I dunno its plenty messy enough outside. 

Where would this layout be? basement? garage? dining room? 

So location will be a BIG indicator of what you might be able to use. Another BIG consideration is ventilation, what kind of steamy are you considering? some burn alcohol or fuel pellets and as such dont put out dangerous fumes, but butane, propane, do give off carbon monoxide so proper ventilation is an absolute must. 

Marine grade plywood with a healthy coat of varnish or polyurethane will stand up to most punishement but your also going to get a nasty spray of oil and water off the engine and thats going to get eventually to the floor so again location, location, location?


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Any kind of wood indoor will work. If youplan to leave it outdoors then the type would come into play. The amount of water and oil is no more then a workbench in a shop.


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## leftyfretguy (Jan 2, 2008)

I knew I should have added something about ventilation. Yes, it will be in a safe area with plenty of air flow and a carbon monoxide detector to keep things safe. I will most likely steam the engine on another table to prevent all the start up water and oil from being dumped on the layout and will then transfer the engine to the layout. 
I guess my biggest concern is that the ballast will keep the water and oil on the wood for a long period of time - longer than if it was just a wood surface where it could be wiped off in a timely manner. 
Matt


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Wood is okay, but be careful about what fininsh it has. Some varnishes and such can be more flammble than the wood itself. Escpecially if you have spilled fuel (alcohol, etc.) on it which might disolve it. Playing with fire indoors is okay if you understand the precautions you MUST take. Just like buring wood in the fireplace... folk have done it for years and only sometimes does it cause the house to burn down.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I use to run the ruby in a circle of r1 track in the kitchen of my apartment, you wouldnt believe how much I stunk up the place. I would run the live steam engine on rollers inside where your planning to do this, to just see how well the ventilation holds up. 

As for alcohol engines, its VERY easy to spill some alcohol out the bottom engine and have a fire, I burn up ties every now and then outside, things to take in consideration, that's all. 

Of course I have run all my engines indoors at diamondhead convention on the raised track there (even the coal one), VERY controlled environment on a raised track, not too much that can go wrong. 

You can see how dirty the Diamondhead Convention track gets, a picture from John Fullers picasa album of me running my coal fired ruby/mimi 
http://picasaweb.google.com/diamond...6769661986


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

i have an indoor layout, sort of a very large test track oval R1-sceniced to some extent 

i run butane locos indoors -fan running -occasionally- 

they spit oil a bit out the stack and inevitably occasionally prime and spew water and oil 

onto a plywood base-no problem 

i might suggest kitty litter as ballast- 

youd need something absorbant and replaceable and cleanable 

there is a bit of spatter -and my engines seem to be very clean once runnnig 

-my roundhouse smokes oil, a lot ! as it heats up-too much for indoors 

-the aster is extremely clean-fine for indoors 

youll need to expect spills and spatters and smoke 
-even very clean engines exhaust a very fine film of oil in the exhaust 

-it eventually builds up and covers everything-and steam oil is thick and hard to remove from some items 

just some thoughts from my experience 



and of course -you need to have things flat and be able to avoid the engines jumoing the track on curves





to be very frank and not meaning to be offensive-i dont think youll be able to steam up in one area and carry it to another-not impossible-





just that they get very hot, burners are sensitive to sloshing, as is the hot water in the boiler


-even with welders gloves-


you could end up with a spray out of the pop valve scalding you and making you drop the loco



frankly if you have a bare FLAT floor-like concrete-try a small circle/oval  and steam up-have a wet towel nearby, and gloves-observe what happens


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been running live steam indoors for quite a few years and I ain't dead yet, 
I'd recommend plywood for the proper strength to weight ratio sealed with epoxy and spar varnish. The former is a good sealer against the onslaught of oil, water and fuel but without the UV resistance that the latter provides if you take the layout into the sunshine. 
Butane is the best choice for indoor steaming for odor and toxic considerations. Coal needs a large volume space to neutralize the smoke and alcohol just plain smells bad in my opinion. My wife won't go for coal or alky but tolerates butane in our basement. 
Lots of leg designs for support/adjustibility have been promulgated over the years so take your pick. 
I hear there's a guy in western NY who takes a portable track to many indoor and outdoor venues to run live steam. You might check with him for advice. 
Have fun, 
Tom


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I occationally run Butane steamers on rollers in the house to make adjustments or just get a steam fix. 
When I do, if I don't have the room closed off to the rest of the house, my CO detector goes balistic, and it takes hours for the PPM to get back down to reasonable amounts. 
Just my observations. 
I still do it, but make sure that the room is open to the outside when I do. Nick Jr


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## leftyfretguy (Jan 2, 2008)

OK! 
I truely do understand the safety aspect of running inside. I currently only have butane engines and I have run them inside many many times. I always have a carbon monoxide detector in the area and a fire extinguisher close by. I have run with my father in the same room and he was not concerned after seeing that the proper safety precautions were taken - I trust him as he was a professional fire fighter/chief for 30 years. He was also a fire prevention officer and a fire investigator. I have had fire safety drilled into me since birth. 
With all that being said I do appreciate the concern for my safety. Talks like this are always good to remind us of stuff we could overlook. 
SteveDenver, it sounds like you have already built what I am planning to do! Could you possibly send me some pictures of your layout? I have picked up my ruby many times while hot and have never had any troubles. The golden rule is to pay attention and be careful (basically a summary of this thread) 
Tom, 
How the heck are you?!?!? 
Thanks for the tips on sealing the wood, that is just what I was looking for. Do you think ground foam and other scenery items will stay glued to that type of surface? This will be different than your portable. This will be roughly 5 x 7 or smaller. I have been inspired by many micro layouts and want to try it with g gauge. 
thanks again everyone, 
Matt


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By leftyfretguy on 29 Jul 2009 05:34 PM 
OK! 
I truely do understand the safety aspect of running inside. I currently only have butane engines and I have run them inside many many times. I always have a carbon monoxide detector in the area and a fire extinguisher close by. I have run with my father in the same room and he was not concerned after seeing that the proper safety precautions were taken - I trust him as he was a professional fire fighter/chief for 30 years. He was also a fire prevention officer and a fire investigator. I have had fire safety drilled into me since birth. 
With all that being said I do appreciate the concern for my safety. Talks like this are always good to remind us of stuff we could overlook. 
SteveDenver, it sounds like you have already built what I am planning to do! Could you possibly send me some pictures of your layout? I have picked up my ruby many times while hot and have never had any troubles. The golden rule is to pay attention and be careful (basically a summary of this thread) 
Tom, 
How the heck are you?!?!? 
Thanks for the tips on sealing the wood, that is just what I was looking for. Do you think ground foam and other scenery items will stay glued to that type of surface? This will be different than your portable. This will be roughly 5 x 7 or smaller. I have been inspired by many micro layouts and want to try it with g gauge. 
thanks again everyone, 
Matt 

One must remember that replies here are not just to the one that asked the questions. They are open to everyone to read. So forgetting some "minor" safety fact could be disastrous for some folk. Unfortunately, there are people that do NOT know that any and all liquids do not necessarily put out a fire, and will throw gasoline on a fire in an attempt to put it out. Some will read that they should adjust the safety valve for more pressure and will effectively lock it down and risk injury in an attempt to "improve performance". Some may read of running live steam indoors and that there is no problem doing so and they will thus run live steam on a white carpet under a dry Christmas tree... (which is worse, burning the house down or ruining the wife's precious white carpet???)

It is always good to stress the possible problems so others may gain an understanding of what COULD happen if they undertake some action.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Matt, 
I don't know about scenic items glued to a finish such as I have on my portable. When I get home from Wisconsin next week perhaps I'll try it out and let you know. The spar varnish may be the deterent to adhesion as it is designed to prevent things from damaging the surface and protecting the epoxy from UV light. 
Scott Mc Donald's portable is smaller than mine and he used a core of foam which he surrounded with plywood vs my wood/foam frame underneath. If you're going the scenic route perhaps you could cut out extruded foam line it with ply on sides and bottom and scenic the top as any indoor railroader might do. Adhesives stick well to foam and you could even build a scenic block to hide one side of the loop from the other. 
Did you attend Garden Walk Buffalo last weekend? We didn't see any garden railways. 
Have fun, 
Tom


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## leftyfretguy (Jan 2, 2008)

Semper Vaporo, 
Completely agreed, we can never be too safe and this thread is a good reminder of the many hazards we need to always be aware of. 
I hope I didn't come across nasty, I was just looking for an answer to my question - which I did get several. So its all good! 
Tom, 
I am just sitting here on my duff, I should try it on the portable I recently built. If I like it, I may postpone the small layout and scenic the whole portable - that was the original plan anyway... I will keep you updated. 
As for the garden walk, no we didn't attend. We were in far off Michigan chasing mudhens and berkshires and daylights - oh my!!! We stayed in the most wonderfully landscaped place I have ever seen (except disney) - Frankenmuth, Michigan. The place was amazing, everything was in bloom and beautiful. Not too mention we devoured about 6 tons of fudge! And the Christmas shop... WOW! Take Jane you will LOVE it there! 
talk to you later, 
Matt


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

fwiw lefty fret guy (im a righty fret guy-guit and mando and bass) 

i didnt really think about the fact that my steamies are tender locos-obviously a hand full-and not as easy to handle as a ruby (tank) 

ill try to gather some photos -my son's in china with the digital camera for a bit 

best of luck and good steaming


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