# Trestle Building on the DBH&W



## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I started building my 20' long wood trestle this weekend. Here is some progress pics










Here is the wood all cut up for my bents. It is old growth redwood. Now you may ask how I got that done? Well, my father tore out his old redwood deck to put in a composite one. I took a lot of the good pieces and planed off the stain so the wood was back to its natural color. Then I cut the wood to the dimensions I needed.










This is the jig I built for the bents. It worked pretty good.










This is a couple of bents and where they will roughly go.










I've started putting the bents in place and past of sill boards. I did treat the redwood with a heavy duty clear sealer and UV protectant. One thing I had a problem with is bending the sill board. This is the first trestle I ever built and I was having a hard time keep the sill bent. I tried soaking it and then attaching it to a formed curve and letting dry. It worked a little bit, but I really didnt want to wait that long. So I "Hilti" bolted the bents to the concrete footings. This kept everything curved. 










Another look at my progress. If you notice the concrete footings are sticking out of the ground. Well, I changed my mind after setting them and building the bents. I decided that it was not a good idea to have a grade on this bridge. It would be better if it was level. So the easiest way to fix this was to raise the concrete footings instead of recutting all my bents. I'll fill more dirt around the concrete and no one will know the difference.










This pic is further along the bridge. You can see how I re-established height. I clamped a sill board into the curve and level desired and then readjusted the concrete footings with the bents on them to get it level. It actually worked pretty easy.










This was the last pic looking at my progress. I did all this on Sat. I finished up everything on Sun. It was too dark to get pics so I'll do some tonight after work.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work Jake. Jigs, way to go.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Yep, nice work and a good score on the redwood too.

Another way to curve the sill is to laminate 3 or so strips together. Bend, glue and clamp at the radius you want and they'll stay there once it dries. 











Cheers
Neil


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for the tip Neil. Hadn't thought of that.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Here is pictures after the second day:










This the other side of the "creek" I have one bent missing because a post was there originally and so I was not able to get a good measurement. I'll build the bent now that I can get a good measurement.



















Overall views from above and below the trestle. I still need to build a bridge over the creek. I'm not sure what I'm going to do there. The bridge is on a curve so that complicates things.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

You could make the bridge wide enough to accommodate the curve, if the curve isn't too wide.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Good Idea Amber. I have been looking at some pictures of Rio Grande Southern trestles and what they did. More specifically the Butterfly Trestle (44A) on Ophir Loop. They used Heavy timbers spanning the river and then placed Bents on top of the timbers. This might work with my curved trestle as 44A was also curved. Here is a picture of what I'm talking about.










You can see the heavy timbers and then the one bent sitting on top. However, the engineer in me says that my span is too far and would not work in the "real world" because I have the potential of 5 spans. It looks to me I probably am going to have to build a truss bridge to span the gap.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Jake this looks great. Most impressive, and fits the space well too. I would vote for some type of truss bridge which could sit on some shorter bents doubled or tripled up at each end. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Just to clairfiy (cuz I'm a newbee) your trestle, or bents if you will, are the actual supporting structure for the track? I'm not sure I'd be able to get away with that with frost and heave in north east ohio... I was planning on pounding small steel square stock deep into the ground then cutting them to the desired hieght and making the actual structural part out of steel then wrapping it with cedar... THis way the cedar can weather and deteriorate naturally and just look plain cool... 

BUT after seeing this I really really like it...


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I think an deck truss bridge would look really good crossing the gap. With that much space below the track, it wouldn't be a problem to do the under-track trusses.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Rio Grande Southern Trestle 91 had a 200' Howe Truss in the middle. 

It might make a great model! 

http://nn3.tripod.com/27onhigh2.jpg 


http://www.trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips2/howe_truss.html

Robert


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Posted By TheFishGuy on 26 Apr 2012 07:04 PM 
Just to clairfiy (cuz I'm a newbee) your trestle, or bents if you will, are the actual supporting structure for the track? I'm not sure I'd be able to get away with that with frost and heave in north east ohio... I was planning on pounding small steel square stock deep into the ground then cutting them to the desired hieght and making the actual structural part out of steel then wrapping it with cedar... THis way the cedar can weather and deteriorate naturally and just look plain cool... 

BUT after seeing this I really really like it... 
If you are concerned about frost heave under your trestle you could always extend each footing (the concrete below the timbers) down to the frost line individually, or build a concrete block wall following the track down to the frost line and just cover the top with dirt. I don't have personal experience with it but may be some can weigh in if any of this is even necessary. I think most seem to have things just sitting on the ground and perhaps it all just flexes in winter and settles back in the spring.


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

32" below grade is a safe depth to not be affected by frost/heave. I really cannot dedicate that kind of time to the train layout... It looks fantastic but I don't think it's realistic around here...


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Another option Fish is pound your two "stakes" into the ground to your frost depth. Then mount the bents to the top of the stakes. This would keep the bridge from heaving too much. Keep in mind, you are outdoors, so some movement will occur, just plan for it. I did with this build. The concrete footings are not real deep, however, with my recent experience with this last winter it taught me that heave is pretty minimal because my ground drains real good.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Robert, 

I have decided to build a wood deck bridge in the middle. I designed one in Autocad over the weekend and I started cutting wood for it yesterday. Pics will soon follow once I get a bit more done.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Well I got the Truss bridge built to span the "river" here is some pictures










This is a picture of the bridge. Not in place (obviously). I used plans for a standard deck truss bridge for the design. It is all redwood I cut to dimensions on my table saw. The metal rods are from a company called Micro Fasteners. I'm thinking of painting the metal rods and nuts black, but I might let nature do it's thing.










This is a picture of the bridge in place. I think it came out pretty good. In the plans I was refering to, to build the bridge they had a short straight upright bent on either end between the angled parts. I dont think I need it, so for now I'm gonna leave it this way. 










This is just a more overall view of the bridge. Not fully done, I still have to add the girts and I'm on the fence about making bridge ties and everything or just placeing my flex track on top for now. I'd like to have this project done so I can move on th building some buildings.


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Jake,
The long curved trestle and truss bridge are looking really great! By the way, are you modeling the standard gauge Rapid Canyon Line (Rapid City, Black Hills & Western) that ran along Rapid Creek between Rapid City and Mystic? Or are you modeling one of the 3-foot narrow gauges from up in the Deadwood area (FE&MV, B&MR, DC, etc.)? just wondering. I was stationed at Ellsworth back in the late 60's - early 70's and spent a lot of time traveling all over the Black Hills searching out the old right of ways. I left right after the big flood back in '72. I remember a long curved trestle up Rapid Canyon just below Pactola. Thought maybe it might be the inspiration for your masterpiece. In any case, it is coming out wonderful.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Take the time to hand spike! It will look a lot better. Your trestle isn't that long, and I would look that much sharper. Why stop now. This is a short bridge that I built out of cedar and then spiked ties. 









The end result will look much better than if you just place the flex track on top. 
Craig


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Bob, 

I'm not really modeling any prototype specific. I'm using the narrow gauge lines as inspiration. I've thought about what I'd call my "creek" and have settled on calling it after my son instead of a real creek in the area. The name Deadwood, Black Hills and Western is actually a combination of Deadwood Central and Black Hills and Ft Pierre (both narrow guage lines in the Black Hills). I do plan to model specific prototypes of equipment once I have the layout in a sufficient state of finished product. 

I hadnt thought of the high trestle on the Crouch line. I have pictures of it so I'll give them a look thanks for the idea. TBH the inspiration for the trestle is more for necessity than for prototype. The ground drops away sharp in that area and a bridge was a good way to avoid a lot of fill and a tall retaining wall. 

Craig, that is a wonderful looking bridge. I am swaying towards cutting the ties and hand spiking. I have never done it before, I've always used flextrack and commercial turnouts. But, I never scratchbuilt a trestle before either...


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Always a first time for everything... With Redwood you might have to predrill spike holes, but with cedar the spikes should go through nice and easy. Bridge ties are normally spaced on 14" centers. I want to say I used 10" between ties on my bridge. Sadly it's no more, when I pulled up my layout it was quite rotten, so I ceremoniously had a trestle fire that MOW wasn't able to put out.  
Here's a snapshot of how what the GN used for ties on trestles. 








I have a full PDF regarding trestle plans if you want it, PM me. 

Craig


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Jake you've done an incredible job on your trestle!!! 

If I could make one suggestion tho, it would be to increase the cement base blocks size for the bridge span, and then add an extra bent on each end, making 2 bents that support the bridges span for each end. These would carry the weight better and be a much closer representation of a real timber span!! 

:~} 

And My vote would be for hand spiked rail. Don't forget the guard rails also. Maybe even code 215 - at least on one side - better both sides tho!! and a wood walkway down the middle...water barrels, ... forgot them...


THX - Dirk


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Jake,

Bridge ties and spiking all the way.. You won't regret it.










Cheers
Neil


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Yup, hand spiked rails on bridge ties shore looks purty, but I fear my SS rails would have torn up my modest curved trestle had I gone that route. Instead I added a third stringer and spread them a tad so that the rails were always supported and the one (stringer) in the middle eased my mind regarding heavy locos and hollow plastic ties should a rail grow or shrink away from proper support. 
I compromised ease of care over the proto look..... but hey I'm getting older! That's my excuse! ha ha. 
My track floated on the bridge stringers leading to the trestle and over the years I noted a float of at least one half inch between 115 degrees and 5 F. 

How tight do you spike your rails down? Do you allow for longitudenal growth? 

Jake, that's a very elegant solution and quite prptotypical. 
Looking good! 

Happy Rails 
John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Looks like it's time for me to get into the timber bent business also!! eheh 

John, how R ya feel'n buddy! 

Looks like you came out of your turtle shell for a bit. Rest and some sun will be good for ya!! 

Call me sometime, or Can I get you anything!!???? 

Dirk


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey Dirk, et all, 

Looks good so far won't know for a bit whether or not I beat the lung cancer, but I did survive the treatment and that's a good thing. 
Feels great to be sleeping at home again and now I can get back to imagineering my next RR course of action. 

Happy Rails 
John


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Hi John,

Nice to see you again. Since you asked I did some thumb suck calcs about the expected expansions in the pic above. Quick 'n dirty since I'm at work so point out the wrong bits at your leisure..









Trestle is 3m long, brass over wood - stress will be based on difference of thermal expansions. Engineering Tool Box web page gives the brass expansion coeff. as 18.7 x 10 E-6, wood 5.3 x 10 E-6 m/m K (sorry, gotta do metric for this one..). Difference is 13.4 x 10 E-6.

So the length difference for a 50 deg C change (120 F) will be: (13.4 x 10 E-6) x (3 m) x (50 degrees C) = 2 mm (about .008"). 

Did I worry about it when I spiked? Yep. Wondered what would be the result for sure! But I figured 0.004" movement at each end of the bridge wouldn't be too bad, and if things failed it was a lesson learned. Iin practice nothing appears to move, all the spikes are still lined up straight and in tight after 4 years.










Stainless Steel has less expansion than brass in the tables I looked at - but of course your temps a bit hotter than mine.. 


Cheers
Neil


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi Neil, 
Nice to be on the visible side of the horizon.... Thanks. 

It's not my place to be pointing out 'wrong bits', it looks too good for that! 
The track on the other side of my oval was semi locked in the ballast by more track features. 
My way ws a compromise, yet never had a derailment there and it gave the impression I wanted... 

John


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By wigginsn on 23 May 2012 09:40 PM 
_{snip...}_ Did I worry about it when I spiked? Yep. Wondered what would be the result for sure! But I figured 0.004" movement at each end of the bridge wouldn't be too bad, and if things failed it was a lesson learned. In practice nothing appears to move, all the spikes are still lined up straight and in tight after 4 years.







{snip...}[/i]
Hehehe, Neil with the way your sub-roadbed has of moving when it has a mind too, I'd think the consideration of _"difference of thermal expansions"_ problems really wouldn't be that much of a worry.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestion Dirk. I have looked at adding another bent because I also thought it would look more prototypical. But I dont know if I have the room to add to the concrete base without rerouting the river a little. I'll have to mull it over. 

Wel, I have decided to hand spike the rail. So this weekend will be spent cutting ties and also finishing the sill boards. Plus I still have to add the girts to add stability between the bents.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Jake - just trying to help you build a "great railroad empire"!!!! 

Scale cement abutments drop down into the river - and old trick!!!! Maybe even wrapped in heavy beamed timber footings!!! 

THX - Dirk


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I just noticed I havent updated this thread in a while. 

I have finished spiking all the rail. I have yet to add the guard rail in the center due to not able to find any brass code 215. I may have to go with a different material for that. 

I have not installed the cross bracing between the trestle bents but it will get done. The main is reconnected so I can run trains continuously again. 

I have had a busy summer and have not had near the amount of time I had last year to work on the Railroad. But I sneak as much time as I can. I've been working on converting my Accucraft C-19 to battery and sound (which was way more of a project than originally intended) so that has taken up most of the available time I have. 

Dont worry, I'll post pics when I get home tonight.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

As promised (and a bit late) here is the updated pics of my trestle.










West end of the bridge. I handlayed the track on the top and I have to say I'm glad Rodney encouraged me to do it. It makes the bridge look much better. Now I'm eyeing that deck bridge I just layed flextrack on!!!










A little further out. I have not gotten the cross bracing in, but I will. 










There it is. The whole thing. I'm glad I took a risk and tried this for the first time. I had to laugh, when I brought my dad over to see my railroad, he was flabergasted that all the wood from my bridge came from his old deck. 

There is a few things I still need to do but this project is pretty much finished. On to the next.


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Looking good, Jake! Nothing says narrow gauge like a long spindly trestle -- especially a curved one. You will be amazed how strong the thing actually is, and even more so after you install the girts and/or cross bracing between the bents. Can't wait to see a photo of you plowing snow off of it this winter.


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## Brandon (Jul 6, 2011)

Really nice looking, wow.\


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Neil said: "So the length difference for a 50 deg C change (120 F) will be: (13.4 x 10 E-6) x (3 m) x (50 degrees C) = 2 mm (about .008"). " 

John said: "It's not my place to be pointing out 'wrong bits', " 

OK, I'll start. 2 mm is 0.08 in, not 0.008. Doesn't change the real answer, it's still 2 mm. But I'm an engineer, and prone to focus on details. 

Also, for those who decide to try this on their own layout, it would be clearer if (3m) were written as (3000mm). I know you know that, Neil, but we Americans frequently just go blank when faced with multiplying by 10s.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Bang on, well spotted. 40 thou is 1 mm *(Edit: 1 mm (ish) , thanks Dirk - cramming MLS into smoko breaks again.. *







*)*, 2 mm = 0.08". I remember typing that out at afternoon break at some speed - guess I tapped once too many on the zero key, then propogated the error.. 

I have to confess that not using imperial regularly I can't claim to be bi-lingual anymore and have to think about it each time I do a conversion in my head.









Cheers
Neil

PS looking great Jake. Once the cross bracing goes on you will love the look.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

pretty trestle,.. btw!!! :~} 

for the math class..... well,... 

as a machinist, I say... 2mm / 25.4 = .078740" 

now you got sum'thn to talk about!!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## Mudhenbill (Mar 11, 2013)

Hi I am new to the forum. I have started planing and building my railroad and I stumbled across your bridge page here. I wanted to know what you are using for the stringers, is it just ripped red wood or cedar and if so what lengths and hieght and widths. I had some old Trex and tried to rip some stringers but found that the trex had some bows in it up and down making it very difficult to get a smoth track suface even with supports. Any help would be greatly apreciated. The bridge is not all the way so ripping it apart and starting over is no big deal, all part of the fun.
Bill


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi Bill,
Welcome to the forum. It will take you a while to figure out how things go here. Generally, it's better to start a new thread to ask a question like this rather than resurrecting an old thread, but I'll try to answer your question anyway. Many of us use real wood -- either redwood or cedar -- for our trestles. Here is a link to how I do it: link to trestle article Other folks have their own ideas as well. Not sure if any one method is superior to another; you just have to figure out what works best for you. I assume by your nickname that you are a K-27 fan. That's great ... nothing looks better than a K on an old spindly trestle! Looking forward to seeing your work.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi Bill, 

I used redwood for this build. I ripped old wood from an old redwood deck that was torn out. Actually once you start ripping the wood, it should come out pretty straight. If not, then you cut it crooked. I still have to finish up some stuff, I havent installed fire barrels, need to install crossbracing and guard rail. That is on the plan for this spring.


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