# New passenger cars ( Rio Grande UK kits) get to roll!



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

For the first time this year I _finally_ have had a chance to get the full F Scale passenger train out on the layout! Three of the five AMS coaches have been modified with kits from Rio Grande Models UK which I purchased through Jonathan Bliese at Electric Steam Modelworks. I thought I'd share some pics of the train with the new cars:

It's difficult to see but if you look at the rear of the train you will see the clerestory window added to the last car #306:










An F scaled train is almost too big for this layout.....almost!










Here are the other two kits, the first being the #251 Combine (unique because of the central door placement) and a "retro" fit to make an earlier coach with rounded windows as well as a stock AMS coach for comparison. The two kits started out as C&S coaches as that was all I ws able to find! Jonathan has the decals to make them into what I needed.










Pulling the train is my Bachmann K-27 complete with RCS r/c and Sierra sound and a Bachmann boxcar lettered for the D&RGW with CDC dry transfers:










The layout has nothing smaller than a 4 ft. radius curve (R3) and most are much broader but even so, the curves seem "cramped." The K-27 is the largest engine that will ever fit on the KC&CRR in it's present form. In fact, the inside loop is so restrictive that I have to be careful pulling such a large train! I understand that the D&RG had the same troubles when they first acquired these "monster sized" Mikados! Still, once the bugs were worked out and the train was running without a hitch, the results made the effort worth it! I _love_ Fn3!!!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,

VERY impressive passenger train! I blew-up the first pic and I can definately see the Chili Line bay window on #306. I really like the new curved windows from Rio Grande Models UK. That train is BIG! THX for posting.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Beautiful consist









I like the "Chili Line" window too.

Is the center door combine base on a prototype? Neat looking car. I don't have my copy of _Rio Grande Narrow Gauge Varnish_ with me here in California. But if the prototype existed, it would likely be mentioned in that book.


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

MAtt - I think that car was an RGS car - at least that's what the kit says... so a real car, but not for the D&RGW


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Mighty fine looking consist. 

I had problems with the couplers on Accucraft cars on tight radius. I solved the problem by installing Kadee 830s with a sllightly modified pocket. 

It worked wonders on the tracking of the cars. 

Stan


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Did somebody say Mudhens?.... yep for the time spent on the ground....


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Now thats a nice train Steve and layout looks great as well.....


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually the term "mudhen" came to be because of the supposed "waddling" gate that the engines exhibited on the rough track of the D&RGW,


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Steve, 
Nice passenger train. You did a superb job with the Rio Grande Models UK kits. 


Rodney


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## R Snyder (May 12, 2009)

Steve, 
That's really nice. Are you bringing some F scale equipment to Marty's. I would like to see the Rio Grande UK conversions. I enjoyed visiting with you at the HAGRS show.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Actually Gary, I read that i a book by a DRG trainman... they spent a lot of time in the mud.... but who knows what they actually said......


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Total,

I'm curious myself as to the origin of this term, so I posted a request on the Narrow Gauge Discussion Group for some kind of a definitive answer. I'll check later and see what they come up with.


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Steve,

Great looking layout and train. Nice job on the varnish.

Chuck


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Total,

I just got a few answers regarding the term "mudhen", from the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum. Some of these I've heard before, but it makes an interesting conversation.

Gary: 

The term "mudhen" only applied to the K27s...450-464. A D&RGW engineer who started as a fireman on a K27 in 1915 told me they were given the term from the fact they did not turn over easily like the 4-6-0s and 2-8-0s. The outside frames and counterbalances made them more stable. 

The K28s were given the name "sport model" because sporty cars were becoming popular and the UP had used that name for a series of 4-8-2s. 

The K-36s were given the name "Baby Grande" because at the time they were the largest narrow gague engines in the world. This name never stuck like the other two. 

The K-37s were never given an official name, but the crews called them the "little 1100"s from when they were standard gauge. The engineer I knew had actually run a few of them both as narrow gauge and standard gauge engines. 

Jerry Day 
Longmont, CO

Hope this helps.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the nice comments and yes, I will _definitely_ be bringing my passenger train to Marty's! (Marty's layout is one place where you can definitely let the train "stretch it's legs"!)


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By gary Armitstead on 02 Sep 2009 05:05 PM 
Hey Total,

I just got a few answers regarding the term "mudhen", from the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum. Some of these I've heard before, but it makes an interesting conversation.

Gary: 

The term "mudhen" only applied to the K27s...450-464. A D&RGW engineer who started as a fireman on a K27 in 1915 told me they were given the term from the fact they did not turn over easily like the 4-6-0s and 2-8-0s. The outside frames and counterbalances made them more stable. 

The K28s were given the name "sport model" because sporty cars were becoming popular and the UP had used that name for a series of 4-8-2s. 

The K-36s were given the name "Baby Grande" because at the time they were the largest narrow gague engines in the world. This name never stuck like the other two. 

The K-37s were never given an official name, but the crews called them the "little 1100"s from when they were standard gauge. The engineer I knew had actually run a few of them both as narrow gauge and standard gauge engines. 

Jerry Day 
Longmont, CO

Hope this helps.
Methinks we both are right. I don't know the folks above so I googled 'drgw mudhen' and got this;

According to Drury (1993), this class started out as Vauclain compounds (two 15" HP, two 22" LP cylinders). Perhaps the compound cylinder arrangement driving such small wheels and traveling on 40-lb rail was the cause, but the "Mudhens" were not initially popular because of their tendency to derail. As they left the rail and skittered across the ties, according to bystanders, they had a waddling gate like that of a hen, hence the nickname.

So there you go.

John


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

The thread I started on the Narrow Gauge Railroad Discussion is STILL going today. Take a look at it John if you get a chance.

http://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,137552

Some interesting stories.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

OK Gary I looked...about the same amount of thread drift as here! lol 

I saw the gentleman's post you posted above and then they drifted, the last 2 came back to light rail, K-27's and time in the mud. 

There is merit in what your man posted..they were so stable they didn't tip over (when the left the rails), thus had a chance to waddle on the ties. 

All hens waddle, the mud is significent. 

My aplolgies to Steve S. for this side track. 

John


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

John,

You are right about the thread drift. It happens everywhere. It's like a normal face-to-face conversation.

Now back to Steve's ORIGINAL thread. I have a question for Steve. Did you use David Gormley's (RGM UK)fixture to assenble the Chili Line bay window or what?


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I used the Bay Window kit from Rio Grande UK. It actually comes with _two_ windows (as that is what the prototypes used) and they fit perfectly! I literally put one together over the lunch hour! The kit is only $15 or so and was well worth it!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

As far as birds go the name "Mudhen" does not refer to a hen (chicken). Mudhen is the common name for the American Coot, a duck like water bird that waddles when on land. 

Chuck N


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes Steve, I have the RGM UK Chili Line bay window kit, but I was given a dixture with it, to make it easier to assemble. Holds everything together-all the angle pieces-as it is glued. BTW, did you happen to notice that the two sides were actually different? He sent me replacements and changed the CAD drawings and lasered NEW ones. David is a great guy to work with.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Uh....no. I didn't realize they were different! Mine were identical as far as I could tell. I had directions but nothing to hold it together with. Not really a problem though as it was pretty straightforward.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

David corrected them in April, I believe.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,

I have another question about the placement of the bay windows on the AMS J&S cars. As far as I can see, there is NO DIFFERENCE from one end to the other on the AMS cars. Which end is the "B" end of these cars? Quite a few books on the Chili Line cars #284 and #306 state that the bay windows go on the "B" end. I don't see any definite difference in either end. What do you think?


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary, on freight cars,at least, I think the direction of the brake cylinder below the floor determines A or B end. But, I don't know which would be "A". Do we have a professional railroader here who knows? 
s 
Larry


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary,
I was able to set down and look out the bay window of #284 at the Colorado Railroad Museum and the only thing I can think of is that they go to the rear of the car but the seats are the type that can be "flipped" (even though they have been set one way by the museum) so I'm not really sure! I would think that CRRM Annual #24 _Rio Grande Varnish _should have that information. I'll see what I can find out.

On another note, I am adding connectors so that my cars will be able to be lighted from a battery car that will be made from my Bachmann box car. I have now given up track power completely so this was the only way to light them. There will be on/off switches in each car but they will be wired in parallel. Too many times I have seen an entire train go dark because of one faulty connection. Not this time! My goal is to have them ready for Marty's 09 Battery/Steamup on the 25th.


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Steve, 

From my copy of the CCRR annual – the seats were all reversible from 1904, with the exception of the ones at the bulkheads, and were upholstered in crimson plush. 

This was replaced when it was worn with leather the color of which is not given. 

Coaches 256,279,286,287,300,302 and 318 were fitted by 1897 with a partition, one half being for smokers, the being designated as the ‘ladies apartment’. 
Several other coaches were fitted with partitions, and then some taken out, but what the numbers of those were was not recorded.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys,

The info I got about the bay window being on the "B" end is from Tim Mulina and Mike Conder's Quick Pic book on coach #20 and 284. Page 28, 2nd paragraph.

I also took a look at my CRRM Annual #24 and found no information regarding "A" and "B".

I DID get answer from one of the guys on the Narrow Gauge Discussion forum and one said that "B" was the end that the brake cylinder piston points toward.

And I have been told that the "B" end is where the brake wheel is located. That's fine for frieght cars, but the J&S cars have a brakw wheel at BOTH ENDS.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Aw Gary, you gotta complicate things with TWO brake wheels. I say go with the cylinder piston info for passenger cars, as well. Seems logical. 

Larry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I know Larry....picky, picky, picky. I'll think I'll go with the brake cylinder piston direction. Sounds logical to me. THX


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,

Great idea for the lights, running power from the box cars as the battery car. Could you post some pics of the plug install when you finish? Are you going to use the stock AMS lights or use something different? I'm going to install the same lights that Carl Weaver used on his cars. Beautiful little gas chandeliers.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ooooooh........that's gonna look _nice!!_ Carl did an excellent job on his! Me, I'm not nearly so good as that! I'm going to go with the stock AMS lights for now but I went ahead and purchased a bunch of LED strips at the last HAGRS in Kansas City and I may decide at some point to change over. I actually like the relatively dim incandescent light that those rice bulbs give off. Of course, they also drink a _lot_ of battery power compared to the LED's! 

I'll document the steps I'm taking to wire these for battery. I will be using two NiMH 7.2v battery packs to give me 14.4v and we'll see what that looks like. If it's too dim then I'll bump it up to two NiMH 9.2v packs! I can always put in a dimmer switch! I have just acquired the new Bachmann caboose and it is _awesome!!_ I can see some mixed trains in my future as well! 

This idea for lighting the cars this way wasn't mine! Jim Carter (pimanjc) showed me how to do it and gave me the impetus to try it myself! It's really great having friends like him in this hobby! Thanks Jim!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 16 Sep 2009 05:18 PM 
Ooooooh........that's gonna look _nice!!_ Carl did an excellent job on his! Me, I'm not nearly so good as that! I'm going to go with the stock AMS lights for now but I went ahead and purchased a bunch of LED strips at the last HAGRS in Kansas City and I may decide at some point to change over. I actually like the relatively dim incandescent light that those rice bulbs give off. Of course, they also drink a _lot_ of battery power compared to the LED's! 

I'll document the steps I'm taking to wire these for battery. I will be using two NiMH 7.2v battery packs to give me 14.4v and we'll see what that looks like. If it's too dim then I'll bump it up to two NiMH 9.2v packs! I can always put in a dimmer switch! I have just acquired the new Bachmann caboose and it is _awesome!!_ I can see some mixed trains in my future as well! 

This idea for lighting the cars this way wasn't mine! Jim Carter (pimanjc) showed me how to do it and gave me the impetus to try it myself! It's really great having friends like him in this hobby! Thanks Jim!











Steve,

If you use the stock system, then the voltage won't make much difference, as there is a constant voltage circuit in each coach. I didn't check the output of mine, but a 9V battery made them as bright as they ever get.

I put the 9V battery in the bathroom. If you roll down the blind [i.e. make a blind!] it is invisible. You could put a rechargeable in their with a jack underneath - I added an on/off switch through the floor. Here's a pic of my interior with the CV circuit sticking out of the bathroom.


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