# The Saga of my Ever Shrinking Railroad, Part Duex



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Well here I go yet again, with another thread to document the planning and construction of my layout inside my new garage.


Heres a link to the original, now archived post:


http://archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=50168


I will attempt to repost all the original text and pictures sans replies, so there is a continuity to the progress.


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12/12/07


Its ALIVE!!









This will be the new home of the building log of my indoor layout, the Borracho Springs RR, a small mining themed line based on several historical lines like the Gilpin Tramway, the Coronada RR, later AKA the Arizona Copper Co RR, with influences from a couple model RRs, like John Allens G&D, Bob Hegges Crooked Mountain Lines, Malcomn Furlows work, and Joe Crea's Pitkin Tramway.

The Plan:
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/GarageStudyTRY%20AGAINx2.pdf

The location is indoors again, like the previous incarnations, in my newly rebuilt garage which unlike the old one, is insulated and plywood sheathed on the interior walls. Almost all the benchwork is already completed for a previous plan which after setting up, I was unhappy with. The back wall of the garage is 19'4", the left side is about 9', and the right side is 10'6"

So away we go...










12/12/07 In addition to reworking the plywood I have a lot of prep work to do, including adding something (masonite?) over the plywood walls to paint the backdrop on, wiring busses, and adding flourescent lights under the overhead shelf. Then it will be adding plywood platforms for the upper track deck. 

Scenery will be blue foam, with either cast foam or hydrocal details, we'll see which are easier to do. but that wont be till after all the track and wiring is installed and operation is in good shape. I've already reworked the expanded benchwork on the left side of the layout, that was the trickey one, still need to rework the right side plywood a little, maybe today or next weekend. Pics when the benchwork is finished..


12/23/07 A little progress. Got the benchwork expanded:









Left side benchwork, expanded to accomodate the R1 turnaround









Right side benchwork, widened about 12" for the R1 turnaround on this side and for the track on the fiddle yard.









Fiddle yard widened to accomodate 3 tracks.



12/26/07 Yesterday I began test fitting the track and building the plywwod subtrack for the elevated sections, starting on the left side and clearing off the benchwork as I move thru each section, already finding some reach issues that will be an issue when the time comes for scenery (not operations), as the layout is a tad higher than the last incarnation (42" vs 36"), mostly I just need to keep a short step ladder handy.


PS the door is finished and installed/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Since theirs NO apparently easy way to add pictures in this new forum format, we'll do this the HARD way, I thought this was supposed to be an improvement?


Track test laying, how about that, the CADD program was right, IT FITS!


Right hand side, Borracho yard, and the lower section of Long Grade








Upper part of Long Grade








The curve at Agony Point








Lower Agony Point at Heckawee, upper level mining sidings








the yard at Heckawee









Looking down Long Grade








Siding at the fiddle yard










 Now comes a part I've dreaded, cleaning the track /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif, I've got 3 years of dirty gritty conductive grease to remove, so I can put shiny new conductive grease on the joints, somehow that seams a little contradictory doesnt it /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi VSmith, 
Looks like you're making good progress. I'm curious about the raised sections. Looks like quite a steep grade? Any grade would look steep to me as I never considered anything but a flat layout. Now you've given me something to think about. Good luck with the project. I'll be following along as you post progress. 
D


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Don, the grades is about 4%, the worst is at Agony Point since its curved as well, but I like real life tight twisty railroads so why not model them as well, and I like my trains usually short anyway. I'm looking forward to seeing how I have to "work" the trains up "the grade" once I get my trains going. I suspect I may end up having to "clean house" so to speak and sell off some of the weaker engines, or just *rebuild* them into heavier units.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Is that Marvin in your signature?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Someone once said I had Marvin's sunny positive outlook on life.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, Vic, have you reached the point yet where you get to staring at one part or another of the layout and start muttering to yourself...'if I could just get past this, then I could send spur into this whole new part of the garage. That would give me the space I need to incliude this or this...' 

Thats part of how I ended up adding onto my layout - I just didn't have enough room at the one end to include everything I was after, and taking down part of that wall was the only way to gain more space. Of course, you try something like that, SWMBO might be inclined to scalp you...


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

T 

Actually no, I'm surprisingly quite content with it as it lays out. Gonna be a heckovalot of work as it is, lots of kitbash and scratchbuilt structures to do, lots of scenery. One trap I found out back in my college days and I fell into with the last layout incarnations is that sometimes you can overthink a project to the point where nothing is satifactory because you always find another revision or tweek and one ends up never finishing the project. There comes a time in every project when you take of the designers hat and put on the construction hat, and right now, it's hard hat time. The layout is just the platform, its everything else that makes the railroad.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Test run #1 today on the mainline, using the Scientific guinnie pig as their no track power yet, mostly to test track transitions going up and down the grades. I've been using small wood shims to build up bases under the track at the transitions so there is a continuous solid base under all the track, so far got the left side transitions done, leaving only the transition at the right hand side left to do. Found a couple high and low spots during testing, thats what that stupid Scientific is great for, if IT will run on it, almost everything else will. Only a few rather funny derailments. It was funny to watch it run, since several track sections are still missing joiners, yet it trundled right along. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


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## GURU388 (Jan 5, 2008)

Looking real good Vic. Don't forget to invite me over when it is running....


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

It should be getting close to the time to tighten up some of those track connections and put some of your other loco's through the torture test...pulling cars this time. (It was doing this on my layout that helped prompt the expansion and track plan revision - I was less than thrilled with some of the results).


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2008)

Vic,


The layout looks great.  I'm jealous....mine's still on the basement floor.  I'd love to have it up on a table.  Keep inspiring me (us) to greater layouts! 


Ed


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm really jealous, mines still in my head /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

OK been testing ELECTRIC trains, over part of the track, I actually just hooked up a powerpack to the track and surprise, its conducts current all the way around, even with all the crap in the joints. Agony Point is well named, its steep, and slippery, just like its prototypes on the Darj and the Uintah RRs, need to add a little more weight to my Bug Maulers, transitions seem to be working well. Discovered that Buddy L and Bachmann couplers dont....at least on curves, the knuckles dont overlap enough and on a curve they simply slip apart. Hmmm. So thats one more thing to fix, convert them all to B'manns


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

So...did the big haulers make it to the top towing two cars...or three? (not counting the tender).


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

If I go up Long Grade, its OK... but up Agony Point its contentious. I knew going in it was going to fun working that grade, but I planned on short trains, short cars etc, and double heading. I plan to tweek my engines a bit here and there. I'm not worried about my geared babies, but once I get all my track wired up I plan to do some serious evaluations with all the engines, I may scrap outright (sell) some engines and modify others, I may even decide to modify my Bug Maulers with BBT drives, we'll see. Several of my smaller engines were never intended for the big layout and will instead be used for the portable layout. As it is I have far too much stuff for my layout right now, I really need to get serious about the direction I want to take my collection in.


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

VSmith,


                  Lookin good. What size curve are you using?  It's hard to tell from the picture.


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## carpenter matt (Jan 3, 2008)

Vic, I noticed you mentioned using B-mann knuckle couplers? Did you give up on the link -n-pin standard idea?  Also the BBT drives from what I 've read are free wheeling meaning might be hard to park on grades.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd, R1, a necessity in my case, and yes, I know I'm nuts /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


Matt, only the mainline stuff, the big cars and big engines will be knuckle couplered, all the rest will be link and pin. Primarily my Bug Maulers, my full size freight and passenger cars. Not the stuff I would normally operate on the layout as its too big for most operations. Just an occasional D&RG thru train or the occasional excursion train using track sharing rightages.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

First big fault found/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif


Had to eliminate the reverse S curve at the base of Agony Point, was causing derailments, added a 6" straight on each side. Need to rework some of the upper level supports where track will now go. The 6" straights on the other reverse S curves help a great deal, I now have to see how it effects the only remaining reverse S, at the bybass track at the base of Long Grade, I have to see if I can add a 6" straight there as well and shift the bypass track back a little.


This is why you always *test and test and test again* before you fix down any track or start any scenery,


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

This is why you always test and test and test again before you fix down any track or start any scener 

And now we get into the main reason why I ended up tearing up and rebuilding part of my layout - though I tried rebuilding the benchwork and tweaking the trackplan before knocking a very large hole through the wall. At one point I had a 'S' curve with a unrelocatable switch at the transistional top of a 4% curved grade (R2 curve, and not R1). It was workable...but only marginally so. That marginalness, combined with the lack of space to include other things I wanted to have in that part of the layout was why I did what I did. 

Hopefully, you won't have to rebuild or significantly add onto your benchwork.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

T this is why I said test test test before fixing the track, and dont fall in love with your ideas or one will never find the will to make the decisions needed to finish it. So I'm reworking the track, I'll figure out the rest of the layout later. 

I've already moved the track at Agony Point, I just need to scrap together a couple more 6" sections, and move the track at the other side. I only have to rework one upper level support so thats not going to be a problem either. I cleaned out a bunch of plastic track at San Val and I am slowly replacing the brass storage track inside the house, I will use this good like new track out on the layout. 

One the plus side, my Aristo bricked Shaykirk geared locomotive thingie will easily drag 4 cars to the top of Agony Point. Its only the reverse S issue messing with the link and pin couplers, and the BuddyLBachmann incompatability that have been the biggest hangups.


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic,
          I wouldn't say your nuts. I'm in the same spot. I'm trying to get 6'5 diameter to work. Probably will end up with a R3 curve. Learning to thing smaller than outdoors. Thanks for the info.....


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

I wouldn't say your nuts. I'm in the same spot. I'm trying to get 6'5 diameter to work. Probably will end up with a R3 curve. Learning to thing smaller than outdoors. Thanks for the info..... 



I thought R3 was 6.5 diameter? Is this curve on a grade? Good luck regard;ess.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good.  i don't know if I could handle the tight curves tho.  Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

You guys should see those Superliner cars going aroung them curves...just like a Lionel!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif

Hehehe/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


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## Robert (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic


Can you tell me what your final width was on the left piece of benchwork at Agony I think.  I like your design and my looking a generally stealing it with a minor change if I can make it work in my reasonably limited space.


Robert


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert on CAD it was drawn at 5' deep, but in construction, I cut it down to about 4'-8" deep. 

Be advised, track at Agony Point is restrictive operation wise, you had better know that before jumping into it. I'm already looking at adding additional weight to various slippery engines and will likely be selling off a couple if I cannot modify them, and you will be limited on the lenth of trains. But hey, thats half the fun right?


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## Robert (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you Vic.  Yes I had previously read your concerns at Agony and will start out trying to add some lenght to remove the "S" curve and maybe gain just a tiny bit of length to reduce the downhill grade.  My space is a rather limited area above my garage.  Your design really appealled to me for its simplicity yet level of action available in a fairly small space.

Robert


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 01/03/2008 12:46 AM
. . .  you reached the point yet where you get to staring at one part or another of the layout and start muttering to yourself...'if I could just get past this, then I could send spur into this whole new part of the garage. That would give me the space I need to incliude this or this...'
I sure know THAT feeling. I had to revise my overhead a couple of times to make it function properly with the features I wanted to include. I am probably going to be making a few more changes before it is all over--and the original was laid in place ten years ago!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Updating from entries made on the old forum during the "troubles'

2/4/08
An progress update!









Slowly and steadily working on the layout, I got all the track down, all the blocks wired, all the wires run, the powerpack installed, the BTE wired into it so I figure I've got all the pices in place to give it a try







, turn on the pack, put an engine on the track and started presing buttons and got..

nothin'

not a sausage!







check the wires, nothin', checked the block controls, nothin', a quick check of the BTE controller revealed the problem:

Dead battery









...and after a search of the house, there are not any spares or ones to cannibalis in the house, Grrrr









Oh well, looks like tommorow









2/5/08
Found a battery, fixed a small wiring glitch, got it running this AM

yippie!









Test running, my stock Bug Mauler pulled two full size boxcars and caboose around in both directions, some slipping on the grade, just like the real thing only i dont have any sand to lay down, but it didnt stop. I take that as a success! I was more worried about derails on the transition sections but so far A-OK.

Thinker T wrote:
About like my results when I did something like that; my Annie managed to pull itself, the tender, three full sized gondola's and a bobber caboose up a grade like that with only very slight slippage...but it were on an R2 curve, not R1 like yours. I found that with just a little bit of weight it could do the same with four full sized cars. I think the tighter radi really restrict the climbing ability.

Reply
Thinker, Yeap, the R1s are tight, but given how small my layout actually is, that train I ran looked really long in relation to the rest of the layout. 

Thinker T wrote:
And that was with the equivilent of a standard issue Bachmann starter set size train! (Annie or Big Hauler, tender, and three full sized cars)

When you start running trains of say...six or eight full sized cars, the old layout really starts looking smaller; you start getting into the absurd situation where the caboose is just leaving the one town while the locomotive is almost at the next. I did come up with a legit trackwork solution to this...but it restricts me down to a total train length of about eight or nine cars.

Last update on the old forum:

I wired up the last siding this AM. Its ready to *rock and roll!*








..after I clean the track


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Update to today,

Been running the Bug Mauler around the layout dragging the track cleaner over the mainline, it manages to drag that lump up and over in both directions, tested the wifes Bloody L circus engine again, it can pull itself and the bobber caboose up and over but is too light for additional cars. Surgury time, going to drill a hole in those great big air tanks on the sides and fill'em with buckshot. That should help alot, I also plan to add some self adhesive weights insiide my Bug Maulers boilers and probably, to all my smaller engines. 

I now know for sure my transitions are correct, if that stupid Bloody L can make it around, all the rest will no trouble as that was the only engine that ran like crap by derailing or lifting the drivers off the rails if the track wasnt near perfect. Cleaning up right now, sheesh didnt relize what a mess I made putting that last work drive into it.

pic soon, I hope


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a teaser pic, for all those guys out there with computerized DCC and radio wave recievers.... my "High Tech" control system/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif

and yes, I know I need to change the block ID numbers


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6FZKr4Fp-U


Early test run with a Bug Mauler, gives a good idea of the layout size


PS engine is running about 4 times regular speed so you can see the whole layout in one take


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## wmumpower (Jan 2, 2008)

Your layout is really looking great!  I know this was just a test, but personally the Bug Mauler is just too big a locomotive to look right on that layout.  But some of your smaller locos......


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## Guest (Feb 14, 2008)

vsmith, 

could you tell me please, how long are the grades on both sides? 

thanks, 
korm 
.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

About 14 feet on each side for a 10 inch rise, this gives me about 9 to 9-1/2 inches clear under the upper benchwork supports. 
Grades in large scale take up alot of run, the more moderate the grade the longer run is needed, its eats up a great deal of space fast.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By wmumpower on 02/13/2008 7:58 PM
Your layout is really looking great!  I know this was just a test, but personally the Bug Mauler is just too big a locomotive to look right on that layout.  But some of your smaller locos......


Brian: "There no pleasing some people"
Leper: "Thats just what Jesus said!" 
 Monty Pythons Life of Brian/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif

Does this look better Warren? 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jZzGLj_SfQw

Test Video #2


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

Reminds me of the little engine that could...

I think I can, I think I can....


Philip


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## wmumpower (Jan 2, 2008)

/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif

Oh, NO..!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif The tin snips...the tin snips/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif

/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif


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## carpenter matt (Jan 3, 2008)

Vic, looks great! Loved the video footage. Seemed bigger to me than what I have seen on paper and in still photos. The smaller loco did look a little more at home.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

In case anyone is interested 

Some testing results, R1 curves with integral 4% grade, so far: 

HLW Mack based engines: 

Single units: 7 ore cars OK 

Double headed: 12+ ore cars OK 

LGB Porter based engines: 

Single units: 5 ore cars OK (slicker wheels) 

Double headed: 12 ore cars OK 

LGB Toytrain based engines: 

Single unit: 3 ore cars max, light engine, no pull 

Double headed: 6+ ore cars, better performance doubled up 

MDC Hustler based engines: 

Single: 4-5 ore cars max, light engine, no pull 

AC Centercab driveblock bashed engines: 

Single units: 7 short (20') boxcars+ (ran out of cars) these pull like a son of a gun! nice and slow. They are by far my best performers. 

Double headed: not tested but I suspect I'd run out of cars 

Big Haulers: 

Gen 2 converted to 4-4-0, 3 short cars is limit, very poor runner, poor elect pickup, may end a shelf queen 

Gen 4 converted to 0-6-0, 4 short cars OK, 3 large cars OK 

Gen 5 stock. 4 short cars OK, 3 large cars OK 

Bachmann Indy: 

Pooper...only 3 ore cars more and the wheels slip, this is a flyweight of an engine. 

Bachmann Saddletanker: 

7 ore cars OK, 4 or 5 short cars OK, rough performer though, prone to clunking around the track. 

AC Rogers: 

7 ore cars OK, 4 short cars OK 

Overall I am very impressed with the HLW mack bashes, they pull more than I would have suspected due to there weight, more than the heavier LGB Porters. The kitbash geared engines like the Shaykirk and the Climax have more than outperformed my expectations, they are marvelous pullers! The most dissappointing for me have sadly been the Bachmann products, Oh well. 

Legend: 

Ore car = HLW Minicar or LGB ore cars 

Short car = 20' freight cars 

Large car = 40' big hauler frieght cars


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Sadly, I was more impressed with my 0-4-0 Lionel switchers on 4% grades than I was with my Annie. 

A dozen ore cars! Do you have enough siding space to hold them all?


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## sftalc (Jan 7, 2008)

VSMITH, 
I noticed you stated your Bachmann saddle-tank porter clunks around the track and is a rough performer. I've have that problem with my side tank porter. I sent it back to Bachmann for repairs and afterwards it worked great. About a month later it's clunking and rough again. Is this indigenous to this loco? By contrast the two LGB locos I have are excellent runners and solidly built.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I really think the little piggy need skates, but its also the fact that its nose heavy as ****, alot of electronic stuff is stuffed in the nose. I added some additional wieght under the cab to try to balance it, that helped but the flanges on the wheels still love to wedge themselves on LGB turn out frogs, Ugh!


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Up until reading the last couple of posts, I was thinking of getting a Bachmann 0-4-0 switcher. Think I'll stick with the Lionel ones instead...unless I can get a good deal on one of these 'Macks'....


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

T if you can find an earlier sidetanker, the 2nd Gen version with the metal siderods, that one is great! balanced suspension and reliability. BTW Macks are only about $40 or so.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2008)

ThinkerT, 

if you want something reliable, get a LGB-Stainz at ebay, and rebuild the upper part, as you like. 
my older stainz, i got 1970 or 71 with the starterset. 
i used (abused) it for three years outside (driven by a 12v car-battery) and about 15 years inside. the rest of the years it was in the box. 
the only maintenance, it ever got was dusting and mud wiping. 
my stainzes draw better (specially on grades), than my 4-6-0 bachmann. 

korm 
.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Entered my layout is a design competition over one the MR forum, so I had to "pretty up" the drawing, even got it formated to Jpeg in color. 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/vsmith/GarageLayoutColor%20Model.jpg 

Its a big image, so link only.


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## carpenter matt (Jan 3, 2008)

Vic, good luck on the contest! I hope your recent success on the micro layout spurs you on to senic this one. The micro Looks great. 
Also have you thought of hiding a turnout behind trees or something to create a hidden "Y" at the far right side coming of the mill spur?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Matt 
It had such a switch at one time but I took it out as it was out of reach and thats always where trains would always stall of course. We'll see, I might reconsider it as I have no other real way to turn an engine around right now.


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Mr. Smith - what are the overall dimensions of your layout?


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## Guest (Jun 12, 2008)

i like that plan. 

are the curves R1?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Its 19'6" long, 10'0" wide on the right side, 9'0" wide on the left side. All curves and switches are R1


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## pacbelt (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm glad to see familiar faces - and remakes of familiar projects!!!! 
I've been away so long, I had to get a new membership! 
Looks really good! Good luck in the contest as well. 
I'm getting underway on my impossibel railroad - 6' X 17' with all R1 curves. I really look forward to seeing how yours turns out! 

Carmine


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Carmine have you developed a plan yet? I'm always curious to see how others approach the "Great Indoors" 

BTW tied for second in the contest, not bad given I was up against two very well done HO layouts. On the last contest there my On30 "Angry Beaver" logging layout was a blow out winner, so second place this time around aint bad at all, its all for fun anyway, no prizes or cash.


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## pacbelt (Jul 8, 2008)

Congrats Vic! 
I'm horrible at track plans! All I know so far is this is a layout that is being built secional, so when and if I get my 3-car garage, it can grow. 
Basically, right now, I'm building the two ends of a hopefully larger layout!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif 

I should probably get a thread started soon....


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Vic, 
I was just reviewing this thread from the beginning (y'know, your layout wouldn't be half-bad for an _outdoor_ plan:hehe and I noticed for the first time your reference to Malcolm Furlow. I've seen occasional pix of his work and other people's references, but I can't find any real _SOURCE_ material! Do you have any pointers? 
thanks... 
P.S. I think if you put some weight into the boiler of that Indy it would improve its traction quite a bit. Leastways, that's what I've heard!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/doze.gif


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Been awhile since I updated here, mostly because I havent really made any progress due to too many Tim Taylor projects around the house, I might slowly now be able to begin to re-approach this project again. 

When I was watching the extras on my "LOTR" dvds I was struck by the idea of the "Pre Viz" (pre-visualization) program, which uses blocky very basic computer 3D animation to study shots, camera angles, and how action sequences will take place before any actual film shooting takes place, so I wondered if I can do this with my layout, (not in 3D!) so I took the pics I had of my layout and the basic paint/editing program I have and just attempted to get a good idea of what the layout might end up looking like, so: 




























Dont mind the bright colors, or the chunky graphics, its really just to get a more basic visual "sketch" idea of what goes where with possible buildings and scenery.


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## carpenter matt (Jan 3, 2008)

Vic, Great visualization aid. I have no doubt that once you start the mountians you will roll right through the rest of the sceanery.


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## Webber (Sep 4, 2008)

Your layout is a real inspiration. I'm rethinking my basement right now. Although I should push on with the outdoor plans first. 

Great visualization. Must be a ton of hand work. I use Google SketchUp for 3-D visualizations of projects. I've just started using it for an outdoor RR design effort. There's a free version and it allows you to import jpgs and others as a base for your drawings. http://sketchup.google.com/ 

Just strip off the labels and dimensions from base drawing and import it into SketchUp. You can resize it to match real world (indoor) dimesions. You're half way there. Add your buildings using the pull tool. You could create standard track sections and turnouts and reuse them but your plan is already well along. 

The Big benefit is just what you're trying to accomplish here. Really nice thing is I can swing around and change point of view, computer does the redrawing in a split second. Another feature is that you can create a multipart visualization and "walk through" you're whole thing from an operator or train perspective. 

Overall, SketchUp is relatively easy to learn and has lots of video tutorials and friendly user forums. Anyone who works in CAD can grasp the concepts very quickly. 

Have fun and share any images you create.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Well the shrinking rairoad has done the Big Shrink, yet again, almost out of existance. Too many other outside pressures means I'v had to pull it up again from its permanant benchwork which have been reassigned to other uses. This turn of event is a major reason behind my downsizing. I still have the Portable Pizza, which will be my primary focus from here on out. I'm planning to add yet another (R1 loop) layer too it, this time it will be on rollers so it can be moved about, but my 10year dream and seamingly constant struggle to push the boulder up the hill and build a large permanant room size layout is over for good, or at least until I can freely devote a dedicated space (indoor or out) that will not have to do double duty with other uses, maybe in 10 or 20 years when I retire, or is that IF retire...but this is the 5th time I've had to dismantle a layout and quite frankly thats more than enough for a while... I'm still deciding whether to add to this thread for the new Portable additions or to add to the already developed Portable building log, thats all I had to say.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 06/09/2009 9:36 PM
Well the shrinking railroad has done the Big Shrink, yet again, almost out of existance. Too many other outside pressures means I've had to pull it up again from its permanent bench work which have been reassigned to other uses. This turn of event is a major reason behind my downsizing. I still have the Portable Pizza, which will be my primary focus from here on out. I'm planning to add yet another (R1 loop) layer too it, this time it will be on rollers so it can be moved about, but my 10year dream and seemingly constant struggle to push the boulder up the hill and build a large permanent room size layout is over for good, or at least until I can freely devote a dedicated space (indoor or out) that will not have to do double duty with other uses, maybe in 10 or 20 years when I retire, or is that IF retire...but this is the 5th time I've had to dismantle a layout and quite frankly that's more than enough for a while... 











Wow. Another one bites the dust: The "Saga of (your) Ever Shrinking Railroad" definitely says it all. Just keep on hanging in there and good luck.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Dang drat it Vic... 

You had the garage completely rebuilt (with an attached hobby room) and *still* couldn't get the space? 

Oh well, maybe you can dedicate part of the new expansion to the house for your layout...or maybe you have a crawlspace you can partly excavate and make into a basement? 

Real bummer...


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

The garage was never rebuilt specificly for the layout, it was because the old one was in danger of falling over, and the attached room was intended for a home work studio but has morphed into a storage room, thats one of the big hangups, all the crap I cannot seam to convince the boss we need to dispose of, if I want to clear that room out I need to move it to the garage, so the layout which eats up a big chunk of the garage had to go to make room for things as well as an old car I either have to restore or get rid of. Add in my bikes and bike tools and the movable portable micro-layout starts making a hellova lot more sense... 










Heres the new direction, with the existing portable nested on top so it will still be removable for exhibition. The entire thing will be on rollers so its possible to move it around as well. This plan shows an attachable fiddle track shelf at the rear, still thinking about that. Bit of a big change aint it?


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Too much stuff, too little space... 

Maybe, once you get some stuff moved out, you could start on a series of interconnected 'shelf modules'....


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic I completely understand about the too much stuff and not enough space problem. Had it mostly under control with my wife. The kids were another story but they've gotten used to daddy bulldozering their bedrooms at least twice a year to purge toys they do not use anymore. my mother will simply not give up her stuff. She's got things she's moved 6 or more times from one house to another. Over and over again. Now that hopefully she is settled in she can use some of this stuff but there is no room for it all at this point. Then there is me. I've purged a LOT of things but the trains keep expanding to fill my space and I've yet to set ANYTHING up. (sigh) I'd had a lot of the back yard available at one point but then we got the dog. Now I'm re-thinking the yard again. You'll get there ... at some point. I started this hobby with a long term goal and I've got some time yet to acheive it. The deadline was flexible and I'm adjusting to that concept. I don't neccesarily NEED it now but it would be nice to be able to run all or even some of my trains. I understand your purging and feel your pain. 

Chas


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Vic,

I'm a little late to the thread, but I'm sorry to see your layout coming down. I will miss those neat bashes you keep coming up with. Don't give up, things change quickly, sometimes.

Les


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Les, I'm still kicking - all that came down was the bigger permanant layout, not my workbench. Alot of the stuff I've been selling lately is the stuff that was just too big for the new direction


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Oh, okay. From what I understood, you were sorta kinda giving it up for awhile.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I am taking a break till I can make a hole in the pile of stuff, once I unload the "too-big" stuff I will pick up again.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic,

I seem to recall seeing pictures of your old outdoor layout. Does that still exist? To ease the pain of having no where to run, are you able to do 'temporary' patio layouts? It is not like it rains out there in socal.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Mark, no that all got pulled up when we did the garage, the ground got all torn up for the power and water lines had to go to the garage, and the boss has been very reluctant to let me put anything back down as she has "other plans" for it, namely paving all of it in. I could lay track down on the concrete but I dont think it would go over very well. I just need to be patient till I can get back to building the tier 3 on the portable, which maybe starting soon.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

To whom it may concern, due to circumstances beyond my control (Vertical Scope screwing the pooch and deleting 80MB of my photo history three months ago with no resolution) This and all other threads of my 10+ years of activity on this site are now closed, if you are curious please look to my identical threads on LargeScaleCentral which in the coming months I will attempt to re-edit photos into from my personal archives once I have a new storage site up and running. It was fun while it lasted but the collective of monkeys now running this site now have soured my experience. Have a good day.


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

vsmith said:


> To whom it may concern, due to circumstances beyond my control (Vertical Scope screwing the pooch and deleting 80MB of my photo history three months ago with no resolution) This and all other threads of my 10+ years of activity on this site are now closed, if you are curious please look to my identical threads on LargeScaleCentral which in the coming months I will attempt to re-edit photos into from my personal archives once I have a new storage site up and running. It was fun while it lasted but the collective of monkeys now running this site now have soured my experience. Have a good day.


 I know that feeling, it's so frustrating.
Some years ago i was part of a modeling forum that staunchly advocated hosting thread images through the forum website and not other sites. They claimed the images were more secure. Well sure enough the forum got revamped and everyones thread images got deleted despite their claims. From there on out i have stored my images with Flickr which is a dedicated image hosting site.


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