# Adobe Mountian Rail Road Park 21 pictures



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The Maracopa County Live Steamers  had a  gathering last month
 
I took some  picturtes and I just  found them
 
I thought you might like to see them 
 
The first bunch has to do with the  Large Scale  Rail Road  layout  they have there.
 
Dan from  Eaglewings has a big influence there.   It is good to see he helps the locals with some bridges and buildings. 
 








 








 








 








 








 








 








 








 








 








 








 








 
Now comes the 71/2  stuff  
 








 








 








 
Yes a derailment.  and No  I had nothing to do with it 
 








 
This is one of the storage buildings  people have thre


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Wonderful pictures JJ. Brings back good memories of the NGRC held in Phoenix a couple of years a go. 
The "G" area has some new editions since them too. How I would love to have that much space and climate.








Rod


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I have never heard of this place. lots of $$$$ there. How far is this from your place? 
Can you give me some detail? battery power? 
Track work in the heat?

7.5" passenger train, WooW factor...


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Great pictures! Thanks for sharing.


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, now that's impressive. I'll have to head down that way sometime. Thanks JJ.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Great images, JJ. That was a super day. There's a large swap meet held in conjuction with the Meet. 

Marty..... JJ's about 20 minutes from the park, I'm just about an hour...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am not sure. I know a While back, before the moved to the present location they were using rack power. In the Sixth picture is a guy walikd with a remote. So it could be track power with DCC. Or it could be Battery. I saw Three or four guys there that day with remotes. I will stop buy and ask.


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## R Snyder (May 12, 2009)

Very nice! Thank you, J.J.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

SW must be the heaven for retired RR buffs.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Very nice pictures. Sunny spot over there ;-) 
I love those big trains, Som impressive looking monsters! 

But why are pregnant woman not allowed on trains (according to the sign)?


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought 'what a great place' 'til I came to the rather offensive sign in the last picture. 
There may be a good explanation but they do seem like a group I'ld rather avoid. 

Harvey C.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I could not find much on the G club and their web site. lots on the larger one.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

ALL clubs have to post signs like this. Liability IS a big factor. Los Angeles Live Steamers has some cars equipped for the handicapped, but these are only used during special meets for handicapped children and other from various hospitals in the area. This sign also has to do with very small children and babies, NOT WALKING YET, that would have to be held in parents arms while riding. Don't get so uptight about signage until you understand the reasoning behind it. The cost of liability insurance for our clubs is astronomical. There is a "lawsuit-happy" public out there. I pay for this insurance through my dues. Maybe Harvey you should go out there and submit a donation for insurance and talk to the folks at their facility. Might open your eyes to the real world cost of running these ride-on trains. Off my box now.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

For the G scale you might try Arizona Big Train Operators....I think that is the club that has the G scale laout


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

I wasn't getting uptight and didn't want to offend anybody, I was just wondering why pregnant woman could not ride on the trains. So it is all got to do with liability insurance? Man, it does make you think twice indeed. Never thought about giving people a nice trainride could be so much trouble... 

Funny thing is my first thought reading your reply was "I'm happy people are not that 'lawsuit happy' over here", because I never seen such signs (besides at rollercoasters and that sort of rides). But than I realized WE DO have those signs also on the parkrailroad that I visit with my kids. The difference is that those are much smaller ones with only one statement that covers it all: "Use at own risk". 
So not much different anyway, actually, it's all the same here... 
Only our signs are smaller


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, et all... Here's the link to the other MLS (Maricopa Live Steamers)

The G gauge layout is part of the Adobe Mountain Desert Railroad Park and Museum and the Sahuaro Central Railroad Heritage Preservation Society. They have the outdoor G gauge layout (all battery operation, no track power), a DCC operated HO layout as well as an N gauge layout completely DCC operated. The main G gauge layout is outside, there's an overhead in the building that houses the N and HO layouts.

When in Phoenix, it's a great place to visit and ride trains... The next swap meet is October 16, 2010.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

We have had a few accidents on our Los Angeles Live Steamers layout in the past few years. 99% of the time, the accident is caused by the RIDER, not the equipment. Everyone riding is given a card to read with the riding rules AND they are given a short oral talk by the conductor or brakeman in charge of that train. Even then, you will have a person that doesn't listen or WON'T listen to the simple rules. You have to understand that most of the equipment is owned by the engineer (his own stuff, not club property) and because someone is a little overweight OR pregnant, and they turn around to talk to their kids or another adult, the car will tip and derail. 1/8th scale models are small and the center-of-gravity is very critical. Many people who ride these cars believe that the person who owns them might have "deep-pockets" and that's where the law-suits start. Young people have to be able to sit without assisstance and balance themselves. That's where AGE and SIZE come in. These clubs are NOT amusement parks, although many who visit, THINK they are! We HAVE to provide rides on Sundays because we are using Los Angeles City park land. The city does NOT pay for water to maintain grass areas or plants or trees, does NOT pay for electricity that is used nor do they own the buildings, track or locomotives. The city does NOT pay for our liability insurance. Believe me, it is a staggering figure and very hard to get! I own a couple of large scale locos, some rolling stock that I use to pull the public with (worth a few thousands of dollars) and I DON'T appreciate someone who does not listen and the car or cars , go over and I sustain damage to MY equipment and then this person complains about a scratched knee or a child scratched leg, calls the paramedics and who gets yelled at. This is a pet peeve of many of us who run this scale. So yes, I DO get upset at the suggestion that somebody is OFFENDED by the signage. Just wanted to air our side of this situation. Many in my hobby have opt-out of pulling the public and just run during meets (when they are not obligated to pull public with their equipment). Maybe some others will offer their horror stories about public rides on private equipment. It is a very hot topic here at Los Angeles Live Steamers.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Great pictures JJ 

Thanks


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Man I wish I could retire....


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By gary Armitstead on 23 May 2010 04:01 PM 
We have had a few accidents on our Los Angeles Live Steamers layout in the past few years. 99% of the time, the accident is caused by the RIDER, not the equipment. Everyone riding is given a card to read with the riding rules AND they are given a short oral talk by the conductor or brakeman in charge of that train. Even then, you will have a person that doesn't listen or WON'T listen to the simple rules. You have to understand that most of the equipment is owned by the engineer (his own stuff, not club property) and because someone is a little overweight OR pregnant, and they turn around to talk to their kids or another adult, the car will tip and derail. 1/8th scale models are small and the center-of-gravity is very critical. Many people who ride these cars believe that the person who owns them might have "deep-pockets" and that's where the law-suits start. Young people have to be able to sit without assisstance and balance themselves. That's where AGE and SIZE come in. These clubs are NOT amusement parks, although many who visit, THINK they are! We HAVE to provide rides on Sundays because we are using Los Angeles City park land. The city does NOT pay for water to maintain grass areas or plants or trees, does NOT pay for electricity that is used nor do they own the buildings, track or locomotives. The city does NOT pay for our liability insurance. Believe me, it is a staggering figure and very hard to get! I own a couple of large scale locos, some rolling stock that I use to pull the public with (worth a few thousands of dollars) and I DON'T appreciate someone who does not listen and the car or cars , go over and I sustain damage to MY equipment and then this person complains about a scratched knee or a child scratched leg, calls the paramedics and who gets yelled at. This is a pet peeve of many of us who run this scale. So yes, I DO get upset at the suggestion that somebody is OFFENDED by the signage. Just wanted to air our side of this situation. Many in my hobby have opt-out of pulling the public and just run during meets (when they are not obligated to pull public with their equipment). Maybe some others will offer their horror stories about public rides on private equipment. It is a very hot topic here at Los Angeles Live Steamers. Hear, Hear, Gary. 

You should hear some of the stories shared by those who offer their trains for rides. They could be unbelieveable, except they're not.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

It is a very hot topic here at Los Angeles Live Steamers.
I can trully imagine that by now... Sorry to hear that are such issues. Takes the fun away from riding public...

I was wondering if the cars that the public ride on, are those the cars with the desk chairs on them? I can believe those do tip over pretty soon.

Over here (Belgium) they use 2 types of (club owned) cars for public rides like these shown below, and they are _very hard_ to derail or to tip over (idiot proof perhaps?).



















I believe the other type (next 2 pictures) have added weight to lower the centerpoint to get bigger stability: 











No overweight issues here! (just need some extra hauling power...)

















(All picures by http://www.stoomgroep.be/)

And.. when things do go wrong; it helps the hospital is accross the street.
People ride the trains at own risk and have there own responsability... No lawsuits as far as I know.

Paul


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The Cars with the Desk Chairs are usualy for the engineer. They are right behind the engine. If they are any where else in the train it is usually for family members. The regular ride on cars are like the one you have pictured.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to add to what JJ said. The "desk chair" seats are something new in the past ten years. I don't believe we have any at Los Angeles Live Steamers. These are used as engineer seats for the cars behind the the diesels. Some of the guys have "tractor" seats on their own cars as do the club owned cars. But these seats DO NOT stop someone from turning in the seat to talk to someone behind them or leanimng forward to talk to the person in front of them. It's thing "moving" around thing and shifting the center of gravity that causes the problems. Because this has become such a problem at our club, we have a few members that are experimenting with new seat arrangements to try to prevent this constant moving around when the train is in motion. Our club has probably over 40-50 gondolas we use to pull public. Now we are starting to incorporate brakes into some of these cars, actuated by the caboose brakeman, to help with some of these issues. When you figure that these cars cost about $2000 a piece on average, that's $80,000 to $100,000! The club pays for these! If they are your own cars, they cost many times more than this. The nice metal, pullman cars are about $8,000 to $10,000 a piece including trucks-the six-wheel jobbies. Those trains have four to five cars pullmans on them. 40K to 50K bucks there. As an example, my friend and I were using his Allen Mogul steamer to pull public. We had my scale model 1903 wood gondola with my 1920 era reefer, behind the tender, as a buffer between the engine and the public passengers. Behind the were my friends four steel gondolas and followed by the friend as brakeman in the caboose. The passengers were all adults except for a couple of teens. Somebody decided they needed to turn around to BS, causing that car to split a switch at about 8 mph. Major accident!! Damage to my reefer, scale gondola, tender trucks and derailment to the steamer because of the jack-knifing effect of the cars. We probably had over two tons of weight on that train plus the weight of the rolling stock and locomotive, plus water and coal. One or two steel gondolas derailed, small amount of damage to those trucks. I couldn't believe the laughing going on behind me. These idiots wanted to know if we could do it again-"it was so cool". That's what it's like pulling the public. Most of them don't have clue. Again, this is why we have BIG signs AND probably not "politically correct" signage. Some folks can be a little dense.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Good thing I'm not in public relations as I would have gone to the offending passenger and stated "Sure we can do it again, as soon as this 'person' pays for the damage and the rest of you match it for the next 'accident'! 

I'm already stressed out enough by my great nephews plans to derail my locos!


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