# Train won't run



## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

I have been working on my train and adding track in. Each time I add a section I run the engine around to see how well it all goes. Yesterday after adding a new section that connected switches and a new area the engine won't run. If I disconnect a section of track from a switch the engine will run. What have I done wrong. See picture of new section. 

Thanks for any help.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

What brand of track/switches? Any insulating rail joiners?

Not sure about G scale switches (haven't used any yet, just starting myself as well), but when the turnout is throwen does it cut power to the open rail side?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

sounds like a reverse loop was connected.
Some where you have a path that that makes the left rail become the right.
The other possibility is a defective switch shorting through the frog...
A track diagram would really help find your problem.
Hope you see Happier Rails,
John
ha a new pic...edit

I'd like to see down the far side... I suspect a reverse loop that you want to have to change directions.
I solved my shorts by going to battery power, others will suggest DCC and Toddalin will likely suggest relays. The small scale solution was to have a block of track isolated and when the train was in the block the polarity of the layout was reversed...
J


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

They are LGB switches and track. In a previous post I asked about using insulated rail joiners and with DCC I was told I wouldn't need any but now that I think about it since I am still just running on track power that is probably the problem and I will need to get insulated rail joiners till I get everything switched over to DCC. 

Thanks.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

How could I check for a shorting through the frog? I did a hand drawn layout and don't have a picture of it or I would post a copy. Might need to do that. Thanks.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Take a pic of it.
If you have a multi meter you can use ohms and check for continuity where there shouldn't be any.
Search for Wiring a reverse loop


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

See the edit on my previous post at 8:20


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

It does look like I have a reverse loop. Will a set of Split Jaw insulated rail clamps solve this and once I switch over to DCC will I have to worry about this?

Thanks.


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

On a general note, are you using aftermarket rail clamps like spilt jaw, hillman, Aristo flat plate, etc., or the slip on joiners that come with the track? I have learned my lesson, never use the stock slip on joiners if you want dependable conductivity. Now I use track power, not DCC, but a word to the wise.

Jerry


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## MikeMcL (Apr 25, 2013)

Camanoyard60 said:


> It does look like I have a reverse loop. Will a set of Split Jaw insulated rail clamps solve this and once I switch over to DCC will I have to worry about this?
> 
> Thanks.


Insulated rail joiners will still be required for DCC. It's the same as if you shorted across the rails. An auto reversing circuit would be required for the isolated reversing section.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

I have been using Split Jaw that go over the joiner. I'm guessing that if I get the Split Jaw insulating clamp I would have to remove the stock slip joiners for the insulating clamp to actually insulate the rail. Would I place the insulating clamp on both rails or just one rail.

Thanks.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

So insulated rail joiners won't correct this? I have to install an auto reversing circuit and what is an auto reversing circuit?


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Ah, well another thought, there seems to be an opinion that rail clamps over the existing joiners are not nearly as effective as removing the joiners and putting the clamp on the rail. And using a dab of conductive grease as well. I have no direct experience with this, just remembering past discussions. Yes a pain to remove the slip on joiners, but there you go.

Jerry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Totalwrecker said:


> sounds like a reverse loop was connected.
> ha a new pic...edit
> 
> I'd like to see down the far side... I suspect a reverse loop that you want to have to change directions.
> ...




I have to agree with John here. I'm not exactly sure what kind of track is beyond the photo you posted, but sure looks like a reverse loop to me, especially with your explanation of what's happening with your train. DCC should be find, but you do mention track power. There's the culprit. 

Like John, I solved these wiring "problems" using all battery in my engines. Have never regretted doing it. You WILL definitely get other opinions regarding battery and DCC. "Different strokes for different folks".

EDIT: In the old days before fancy reverse loop computer chips, we would isolate the reverse loop rail BOTH rails from the rest of the layout and then wire a switch into the reverse loop to reverse the polarity so your train would keep right on running in the proper direction. This got to be awkward in complicated trackwork. My first LGB layout outside, had a small reverse loop (1980's). But from prior experience in HO trains, I knew I had to wire the loop separately. After a year or two, with dirty rail joiners and faukty insulated joiners, the railroad was abandoned. Thirty years later, I just don't mess with wiring an outdoor railroad anymore.......just use batteries.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Will insulated rail joiners correct this or do I have to install an auto reversing circuit?


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## MikeMcL (Apr 25, 2013)

Camanoyard60 said:


> Will insulated rail joiners correct this or do I have to install an auto reversing circuit?


http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/wiring/reverse-loop.htm


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Will insulated joiners...?

Only the short, but you won't be able to run a train over that section.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Camanoyard60 said:


> So insulated rail joiners won't correct this? I have to install an auto reversing circuit and what is an auto reversing circuit?


What DCC system are you using? I use Digitrax. They make an auto reversing circuit. The auto reversing circuit flips the track polarity around automatically for you. 

When you enter into a reversing loop the rail polarity switches when you exit. If you follow the right hand rail through the loop, it turn into the left hand rail upon exiting the reversing loop. Samething for the left rail turning into the right rail. The auto reversing circuit will flip the track polarity around so everything polarity wise lines up correct. These units work very fast so you don't notice power loss to the train. And it's all automatic, other than the initial installation, they're hands free from there.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

I actually haven't purchased my DCC system yet. I had thought about using an NCE system but I will look at the Digitrax one. Thanks.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Which Digitrax system do you have. In looking at their site I don't see anything above 8 amps. The NCE that was looking at had 15 amps.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Camanoyard60 said:


> Which Digitrax system do you have. In looking at their site I don't see anything above 8 amps. The NCE that was looking at had 15 amps.


I have the DCS 100 (5 Amp system). I mainly model HO scale, but being I had to take down the HO layout (third child ) I needed the room. So, I'm starting a small garden railway so I can learn the basics. Someday I hope to expand and make the garden railway bigger. 

Amps only matter in how many trains you'll be running at once, and how long (heavy) they'll be. If you're running only one at a time then 5 or 8 amps should be fine. 

When I build the larger garden railway I'll probably consider using multiple boosters with different zones (just like in HO scale).


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## MikeMcL (Apr 25, 2013)

I am using Digitrax DCS200 (8 amp). I can run two trains with two engines each (4 engines) for hours up a 2.5% grade to a second level. One is an Aristo A and B unit with 5 lighted streamliners, the other a USAT cow and calf with 15 frieght cars. I have tried to add another USA GP-38 with 10 cars and all 5 engines will run for a short while but as soon as two trains are on any kind of grade, I hit overload and the command station shuts down.

Today the big brown truck will be delivering a Digitrax booster, DB200 (8 amp) and some insulated split jaw clamps. I will divide my loop (not reversing, but if it were, the booster would auto reverse polarity) and will isolate it and use the booster. I think that will solve the problem and probably allow 4 trains, or 4 more engines for a total of 8 running at a time as long as they are divided among the power districts.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The DCC specialties autoreverser will run over 10 amps, I have an entire section on this autoreverser on my site... go to the DCC section, and then look at the manufacturers page and then DCC specialties.

Greg


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## Sjoc78 (Jan 25, 2014)

Camanoyard60,
It does look like a reverse loop and yes 100% you will need insulated rail joiners on both rails in 2 places first at the beginning of the loop and again at the end. If you were using simple DC track power you could solder diodes across the rail gap and just switch the polarity when the train got to the other end of the loop.

Also note that the polarity shouldn't switch in the loop but on the main outside of the loop and if you have a caboose or passenger car with track powered lighting you will need to have the isolated section long enough to accommodate the train you run through the loop else there is a chance that the passing car will cause a short.


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

Buy the book, "How to wire a model railroad" and learn the basics of Electricity, before you go any further. You will never be sorry if you purchase it.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Even if you run DCC, you can still isolate the loop and supply the correct polarity switching the old fashion DC way using magnets and reed switches (or track gaps) and relays or the LGB turnout motors with their supplemental dpdt switches.

Yeah, it's not "new fangled, whizz bang" but it will work and is bound to be cheaper if that is a concern.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Also,you could buy the Massoth autoreverser, which will work on DC and DCC.

Now you have an automated solution that works under DC and DCC.

Greg


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Thank you Greg for this information. Would the Massoth autoreverser be better than the 
Digitrax AR1 autoreverser, the MRC AD520 or Tony's Trains atuo reverser listed in the NCE DCC manual?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, if you are considering DCC only, then the DCC specialties is far and away the best and most capable. I'd pick the Digitrax second, and not the MRC at all.

BUT, if you want an autoreverser that works on DC and DCC, then the Massoth is the best choice.

Greg


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

So after reading about the Digitrax Auto reverser and Tony's Trains auto reverser it looks like the Digitrax ties into the rail without needing any other power source but with Tony's I would need a DCC booster to power it. Is that correct? And so if I were to get the NCE system and went with the PH-10 I would also need the 10 amp Brutus transformer to power the PB110 and a PB515 transformer to power the CS202 and then a PB110 booster to power Tony's auto reverser and a separate power supply for the booster which NCE lists as a Hammond Manufacturing model 165T22. I have two reverse loops so would one booster work or would I need two of those?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, I think you are not quite getting it, but you keep referring to the "Tony's trains autoreverser"... can you confirm you are talking about a DCC Specialties PSX series?

And which part number Digitrax are you referring to?

Normally, you can buy a separate autoreverser or one combined with a booster.

Greg


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Ok, so what is it I'm not getting. The Digitrax is the AR1 listed on their site and on tony's site it is the PSX-AR.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Greg, I am looking at your web site an under "My implementation and DCC electronics stack" the bottom picture shows you have an auto reverse hooked up but I can't see where the two red wires from each end are going. Are the ones on the left tied into the booster and the right tied into the banana plugs with the black and white wires heading to the track? Thank you for your help.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

An outsider here, but I think your use of Tony requires Greg to look up what Tony is using, rather than your stating what the brand name part # is...

Hope this helps
John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The PSX-AR series on Tony's site is the brand I recommend, made by DCC specialties...

The Digitrax AR1 is made by Digitrax clearly.

The unit shown on my site is the DCC specialties model, and I have a very detailed page on it, and some of the options you can add:

http://www.elmassian.com/dcc/specific-manufacturers/dcc-specialties

Greg


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