# "SAD DAY FOR ONE MAN'S DREAM"



## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Take a look at this guy's!! Really sad day for one guy's lifelong dream!! Watch the video its beautiful!! Makes it even "Sader"








The Regal 

Meadows and Lake Kathleen Railroad

Oregon Field Guide — Coast Train · Oregon Public Broadcasting


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

That's why I don't let the city assessor on my property. Although I didn't realize they could back date taxes, here if your taxes go up, what we owe in the future will be higher not what we failed to pay in the past. Although I don't live in Oregon...

I still don't understand why...

I have seen pictures of this in the past its beautiful and sad to see it go.

Thanks for the post!


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Wonder what he did to tick off the local government that much! Really is a shame... 

I dunno...maybe Marty has room for all this stuff...


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Posted By ThinkerT on 20 Oct 2009 12:21 AM 
Wonder what he did to tick off the local government that much! Really is a shame... 

I dunno...maybe Marty has room for all this stuff... 


On the web-site the owner mentions rebuilding the original house...........without permits.
To quote John "Cougar" Mellencamp 

"I fight authority and authority always wins."

It is a shame such a beautiful RR will have to come down.
It has been my experience that when you fail to play by the rules, it can come back to bite you in the a**.

Ralph


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Unlike most posters here, bless your hearts, I've been there and seen it for real. The time, energy and sheer hard work put into this enterprise, by MANY volunteers, was staggering - the trestle alone has more wood in it that most forests over here... 

Ray and Kath are the nicest folks you could meet, and the buttwipes that have brought them to this, for the sake of, let's be plain about it, sheer cussedness and 'jobs-worth' attitude, IMO aren't fit to collect trash, let alone taxes. 

Like my cousin Sam and his chicken shed, hidden from a little country road by a quarter mile of trees, you really would have to go looking hard to be offended by this railroad. 

What happened to America here, in our favourite state of the union, is nothing short of shameful. 

Lane County Hall is prolly celebrating today, but Oregon has lost out for sure. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I could not get the link to open.


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

This seems like what my heaven would be! Choking back tears here. Is there ANYTHING, ANYBODY can do to help them? ! ! !


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You could send them money, so they can pay their taxes, and have the house and RR rebuilt so they are up to code. They have a place where they take donations.

There have been threads about this before.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Lownote I think it was issues of what they did with the wetlands and property other than or possibly also with they're private property their house is on!! Also Marty don't know why the link doesn't work for you????????????????? try again its on a post on the OtHER site too!! The Regal 
If I had the money i'd be up there moving it somewhere where it would be appreciated for what it is not what the goooooooooooooberment thinks it will possibly cause or do!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think it's a shame, and the city and county should have backed off. 

But there is another side to the story, and the owner has numerous times not applied for permits and worked with the city. Yes he made friends with the state, but any time you are near a stream, watch out. 

Sure, I personally think that adding the trees made it look nicer, but from being in Southern California, and living next to a protected wetland that basically extends to my back fence, you DO NOT mess around and plant whatever you want. My neighbor did, and they made him rip it out and replace the original scrub brush (and this is even on his property!!) 

I read up on this a while ago to get both sides. My conclusion is that the officials were being jerks, but this guy DID thumb his nose at permits and other areas. He unfortunately made his own bed, even though he is surrounded by jerks. 

But jerks with power will win... 

Regards, Greg


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

It looks like he gives rides to the public. That's really sweet, but can you image the fallout if that train derailed on one of those trestles hauling the public. Also looks like he had the media out there, drawing attention. Now-a-days, the first member of your club needs to be a lawyer. Add in a mixing of stubborn battles with city hall.


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

The owner "fought the law" and the law won.
Had he started out right, with the backing, permits, insurance, shoreline permits and all else needed, instead of acting like he had a "shine" distillery up there, things would have been a lot different. 

You don't see the gubmint harassing the other great riding rr's in Oregon, such as the Blue Mountain, etc.
That's all I'm gonna say on the subject.


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

Wonder what he did to tick off the local government that much! Really is a shame... 


Right or wrong, I have no doubt this weighed heavily on the debate (if only subconsciously)... ignoring the code and permitting issues, the land use violations, and the fact that he was running a "public" amusement ride at various points throughout the year... if you're going to try and be "Uncle Walt" with a great big _train in the back yard_, and then _have kids over_ to ride on it, and _broadcast _it on television - it probably helps to not be a convicted Sex Offender... 

*
Lewd and Lascivious Conduct with Two 10-year-old Girls*

Wether you feel he "paid his debt" or not and wether the criminal justice system worked is immaterial. The stigma associated with his crimes would, and will, follow him to Oregon and he knew it - he as much as says so in the article - so now, consider the situation... the released sex offender, fleeing death threats moves to the new homestead and begins construction of his railroad... like some Geppetto of the Oregon forests, he then gives free rides to visitors including small children (it IS a train ride afterall)...

Right or wrong - and the politically correct statements from the OR officials in the articles aside (they knew they would be "on the record" when giving those statements) - you _know_ there had to be some additional motives to the city choosing THIS guy to target for enforcement so heavily. I suspect the above was one of them.


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

that's not heaven!


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Hmmmm. 

Maybe the site owner needs to open up the ability to edit responses on this one. 
Looks like there may be some underlying reasons this was pushed as it was. 

Don't know if I would want to be on record as fully supportive. 
And, I certainly think we should not be "ignorant".


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jebouck on 20 Oct 2009 11:34 AM 
The owner "fought the law" and the law won.
Had he started out right, with the backing, permits, insurance, shoreline permits and all else needed, instead of acting like he had a "shine" distillery up there, things would have been a lot different. 

You don't see the gubmint harassing the other great riding rr's in Oregon, such as the Blue Mountain, etc.
That's all I'm gonna say on the subject. 



If he did even after 14 yrs he still might not have turned one shovel of soil without a permit, sadly these things can take years to get approvals for.

Makes me think if I ever buy out in the boonies with the idea to build what I want, better make sure I CAN do what I want before I put sign that mortgage.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic, your thinking is the right way to go. Find out what the laws are and how strick the county is with adhering to them. In Florida, I live in Seminole Cty. This county is much more stricked and picky about everything than our neighboring Orange county to the south is. Ask the county what their laws are and get it in writing. Ask local contractors about how strick the county is at following these laws. Just because you buy land out in the boonies does not mean there isn't laws limiting what you can do with that land. With all the enviroment laws today, any land considered wetlands or having a creek or river in or next to it will bring along a multitude of stipulations and laws governing what you can and cannot do. 

Randy


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

You know folks, every place is different. I'm building a 6,000 sq ft home in the county north of us and I simply paid $20 to registor. Here in our county I have worked for 4 of the 5 inspectors over the years and I am grandfathered in. 
I go to the county south of us , there is NO goverening body. So the home owner simply reports the addition to their tax body. 
I keep to codes because of inurance liability to cover my butt. 
Many of the lone ranger inspectors have to much to cover and they can tell by your work if you really know what your doing or not. i can tell that also. 
Our current inspector is a retired home builder and a fire cheif. Hes the best and most reasonable guy I have ever seen. But the job is hard on them. 
Some day NE will need a lissons to be a general, mainly because of the fly by nights who mess things up. But then thats how I got started. Now we are the older larger company. funny ha???


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## pfdx (Jan 2, 2008)

It's sad to see something someone loves die.

I've heard several reports as to the problems encounted and the one consistant issue is the structures both timber and earthen built in the floodplain without permits and engineering. Like most of the old railroad operating rules these are written in blood. The most lethal example is the Johnstown flood where the owners of the dam were rich and thumbed there nose at the goverment. While the stream in the photos is by no means the same size the principle is the same. The flow is restricted and debris building up on the trestle would create an effective dam until it broke and then well... would you want to be down stream?

Too many people think that trains this size are still toys.

BTW I can think of 3 local cases in the past couple of years involving 7.5" gauge RR's that have involved permits, lack there of, or forays into the flood plain. ONe RR still exists with limitations, one decided to aviod the water (and the "neat" bridge) and the third died hard by court order. Do your homework before you dig.

Flame away. It won't change anything.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

The Libertarian in me is screaming mad about the whole thing but the Conservative in me is just shaking my head and agreeing that the jerks in the halls of power are the "jerks with power" and it wasn't wise to thumb your nose at them! Of course, their first mistake was living in the People's Socialist Republic of Oregon! (Yes, this *IS *a political rant!!! In my defense, it is _also_ about a railroad!) What this guy has is something pretty special but the "county officials" are more in line with Stalin than with Jefferson, Madison and Franklin!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 20 Oct 2009 07:15 PM 
The Libertarian in me is screaming mad about the whole thing but the Conservative in me is just shaking my head and agreeing that the jerks in the halls of power are the "jerks with power" and it wasn't wise to thumb your nose at them! Of course, their first mistake was living in the People's Socialist Republic of Oregon! (Yes, this *IS *a political rant!!! In my defense, it is _also_ about a railroad!) What this guy has is something pretty special but the "county officials" are more in line with Stalin than with Jefferson, Madison and Franklin!

The guy built it without permits and he didn't pay his taxes. Personal responsibility, anyone? If you want to pay his taxes for him, in addition to yours, he's taking donations. I have my dreams too. Most of the have come true through hard work, and with taxes paid and within the law


Lets' just run it down here. Convicted child molester is running ride-on railroad built without permits and without safety inspection, and without insurance, including a dam built without consideration of downstream user. There are dozens of people there every weekend, apparently, many of them children. Just suppose one of the several things that could go wrong in such a scenario does go wrong: "incident" with somebody's kid, trestle fails, tunnel fails, dam washes out, kid wander onto track in path of train, etc. You think an elected official should just ignore those possibilities. Robinson has no insurance and no money--who do you think would be sued in such a case? You don't think the state has a responsibility to make sure minimum codes are met?


Stalin killed millions of people. You really think there's a comparison here?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

All it takes is for one person to interject a political comment to begin the ignition of a firestorm. While this is as yet no where near that point, the potential exists. Lets keep political ideologies out of the discussion please. Experience has shown time and again that nothing constructive ever comes out of such "discussions."


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)




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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 20 Oct 2009 10:03 PM 









There has got to be some way to get you to flame me for what I think of cats!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I try to keep the focus on the railroad. There is more here than meets the eye obviously! He's not in town and he built his railroad on his property but the county has gone after this guy with "both barrels" in an effort to get rid of this railroad. If it was a simple matter of him not getting the right permits this could probably be worked out but the county does not seem to be interested in working with him. In light of the "sex offender" revelations I can possibly see why this might be. My comment about Stalin was pertaining to the Govt.'s heavy handedness in their handling of the situation.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Everyone knows that there is probably no one around here more conservative then me. But,............ what part of "you need to get permits [/i]" did this guy not understand ?? It also helps if you pay your taxes. Now you can protest them, go to all the tea parties that you want to try to get the Government to lower them, but you still have to pay them. I find it hard to see how somebody could keep on building this when he knew that he was in the wrong all along.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Inspite of the 'nice railroad' the man chose his path and ignored the codes and fees and taxes. 

I live in a bowl on the side of a hill, my property line only goes part way up that hill. My neighbor above and behind me comes down to the property line and starts digging post holes. Nobody's property around here has fences, so I become alarmed. I go out to see what's going on and I'm told that they plan to park a horse on that hillside! Aprox 40 degree incline. 

The owner confides to me that she work s for the county and will overlook a storage shed I built and all her friends at County told her she could put the horse uphill from me! Her caveat was; 'there's nothing in my paperwork that says I can't!' 

Not wishing to become her horse's toilet I went on line and found the codes to protect me, turns out any horse on a hillside must be 90' from the property line and no verbal agreement would be valid. At first I had them move back for the normal 10' setback...so I was worried that that might have been taken as an agreement. Her property is pie shaped and there's no way to be 90' back! 
I printed it out and gave it to them, her husband was a big brute and told me that nobody could/would tell him how to use his land! I looked him in the eye and said; "Sir I'm taking that as a threat." When he repeated it, I repeated my line! He huffed off! 

If I hadn't found a code to protect me, my next step would have been the Health Dept. 

My point is Codes are a good thing. To thumb one's nose at them should lead to hot water...


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

It might come as a surprise to everyone but I agree that Codes and permits are necessary! Your example is a perfect one as to why one _doesn't _have the right to unfettered usage of their property! As I stated earlier, there is more here than we have been told and it would be nice to be able to edit replies once more info is learned but....oh well! The more I learn about this situation the less I am outraged. Still saddened but not outraged...


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I kind of like not being able to edit posts after more than the alloted period. 
Without referring to anyone in particular in this thread, it certainly stops rash posters from later editing out BS statements in other threads to pretend they never said anything controversial in the first place. 
If you are wrong about anything then a simple statement that you have changed, or are changing, your mind, such as Steve has done, is always welcome and certainly appreciated by me. 
Apologies are always an example of strength of character.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Edit? Dang sometimes I wish I could dete the whole dang thing.... been more than one ... trust me lol 

Most always my apologies are private.... was the way I was taught.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I was taught not to screw up in the first place. ...and if you did screw up publicly, then you aplogised publicly.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Nice thought Tony, but for me, being far from perfect, screw ups happen..... 

The 'feel good' part of the apology belongs to the recipiant, not the presenter, so I go private to avoid the 'atta boy's', also doesn't derail the thread anymore.... 

Later when my 'sparring partner' and I are chatting in friendly terms online, I let folks draw their own conclusions... 'Hmmm, must have burried the hatchet!' 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, the "feel good" part to me is the public apology. 

If I can handle the embarrassment and whatever else gets thrown at me publicly, then I feel I have really admitted to myself I screwed up, and dealt with it. 

There's an additional benefit: no one can make you feel badly once you have settled it with yourself. This allows me to shrug off things like being called a "troll" and all the references to "some engineers" on another site. 

Sticks and stones... 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Well guys, I never suggested that my way should be your way. I stated that it was the way I was taught, with out going into the reasons why. 

My timetable had some devestating detours... washouts and what nots...10-20-90 was the day I got back on the right track and haven't 'fallen off' since... 

Ultimately I answer to the Big Bean counter back at the Home Office. 

Be well and be Blessed. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was just making a personal comment about myself John, and absolutely no reflection on you at all, just read your post and thought about my personal "mode". 

Please do not take it personally. 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Greg, no problem, none taken, I just thought I should clarify a tad... and brag a little.... 19yrs....! 
As I said above I don't seek credit for righting a wrong, even though it helps me grow... it's personal obligation to keep me right sized. 

I'm not that sensitive! lol !!! (was going to use bold caps, but didn't want it taken wrong). 

There's been a smile on my face since confessing my desire to delete a bunch of crap.... posted above. That my fg. 

The railroading description was humorous and lighthearted to me, fairly accurate too!

John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I feel that this is a nasty,vidictive campain against the owner of the RR 

I believe there are some needs for building codes. But at times the goverment has gone overboard with regulation.

I believe that all of goverment from Washington DC on down to the local city, State, County has lost site of the fact that this is suppose to be a goverment for the people. They have lost site of the fact they are here for us not us for them.

The above statement got me a 150 buck fine for contempt of court. The Judge was appauled at the fact that I pointed out she was a public servent and should act like a servent. She was so enraged that she took a 20 minute break to composed herself 

PS She almost broke her little brown hammer banging on the desk like there was a hord of killer ants on it.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I p.o.'d a judge once NO fine but he firmly admonished me for saying in reference to a "liar" whoops I mean "lawyer" saying" your honor I don't think this is relevant to the case. He firmly let me know he was in control and he would decide that fact and let me know!! HaH LOL Only you and me JJ hah The Regal


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Seems like folks now days just are looking to make trouble. Its a shame folks can not mind there own business and leave folks alone. About as bad as what I heard on the news this AM about some retired folks in fl being kicked out of the over 55 community cause they took in the daughters kid because the daughter was a dope addict. Now HOA says no can do.. Either get rid of the kid or sell your condo and move out. What a bust. Never Have liked HOA anyway and never will deal with one either. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

He's really DAM LUCKY the building inspector didnt order them to tear out all the non-permitted house work, I can GUARENTEE you that would have happened here. I've done that job and HAVE ordered some pretty craptacular additions and remodels taken down. Say all you want about rights of man and freedom of this or that, but if you build something unsafe to yourself or your neighbors it becomes a public issue and as an Inspector if I am aware of it I have a LEGAL DUTY to cite and if necessary, order removal or demolition of said unsafe work. Its nothing to do with power plays, its safety plain and simple, you may think its your house and if it falls over or burns up that its only on your head, unlessl its falls onto a passing neighbor or burns down the house next door then you see why we have codes for such things. He's been lucky.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

We all know that there can be abuses in any system. I am sure that we can each state a case where we felt like an abuse by an "Official", rather it be a Law Officer or Inspector has happened to each of us. And, I am for all of our rights[/b] under our* Great* Constitution and Bill of Rights[/b] and think the Government should mind their own business[/b] as often as possible. But in this case, IMHO he had been well warned over and over again. I just don't get why he kept on going forward with it when he knew he was in violation all along.[/b]


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I did not know he was warned.....I was under the impression they came in after the fact....way after the fact


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

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