# Tank Engine #3



## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

I've had my mini lathe for about 15 or 16 years but it wasn't until recently that I finally got a mill. As such, this is intended to be a "getting to know you" project for the mill. The lathe also has received numerous upgrades over the past year so it was high time to test it out. Also, I wanted to become more familiar with the basics of locomotive scratch building. Though there are plenty of locomotive plans out there that are built around oscillating cylinder engines, this is not what I wanted to do. My own view is that the scope of work concerning oscillating engines is very limited and does not lend itself to any higher knowledge of how other, more prototypical styles of locomotive engines work, namely slide valve and piston valve types. I started doing as much research as I could on the subject while simultaneously searching for a set of plans. Something serious but manageable for a beginner to locomotive building. 

The design I am building is ostensibly a Dacre, a project locomotive originally proposed by Peter Jones. Though I was unable to find original Peter Jones plans, I've gathered that the initial design was less of a scratch build than an exercise in assembly and integration using as many off the shelf parts as possible, mostly Roundhouse. My own build is based on the work of Erik-Jan Stroetinga whose AutoCAD drawing I found here (http://www.john-tom.com/html/SteamPlans3.html). All that is required to open the file is a DWG viewing program, which are available free online. That said, in order to better understand the locomotive and to document the changes I wanted to make, I decided to produce my own set of plans which I will share freely when they are more ready.

I will be showing the build from the beginning, with as much detail as is appropriate. The first parts will show everything in excruciating detail but towards the end I will be skipping over steps that are easily assumed. This first post however, is towards the end of the chassis build. Enjoy!


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Congratulations
It runs wonderfully in both directions


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

A very nice start. You are showing great machining skills. I see that you are using slip eccentric valve gear. My only mostly scratch build is a Mason Bogie which I posted on MLS. I think the details are on the archives. I will be looking forward to watching your progress.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you, the valve timing still needs work. This video was shot yesterday after setting the valve events. Currently only the chassis has a complete design. Not that I haven't given thought to the rest of it.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Very nice. Also liking your choice of beverage, I trust it assisted during any musing moments you had.. 



Cheers
Neil


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks, a victory beer was in order. Until the air test it was difficult to know whether I was making functional parts, or just converting raw stock to scrap metal.

I've made my drawings available via this link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oYmIouAEs82lz7O8PvRuLp9xLnQQXpSM?usp=sharing
There is still more I want to add to the chassis drawing but the stuff that is there is complete and correct, or at least as correct as anything self checked can be. In any case, access to the drawings will make my photos easier to follow.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Your new mill looks like the one I just purchased with just a few things different
What brand is it?


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

My mill is a Precision Matthews PM-25MV. At work we have a Grizzly G0759. Both mills are excellent and are probably the best hobby class milling machines available. While shopping, I saw this video which swayed me towards the Precision Matthews. 



 Hindsight being 20/20 neither is perfect and the video left out a number of faults with the PM, although a compelling argument could be made that the PM is technically better. For my part, I had to make a number of superficial modifications to make the PM more user friendly and my own opinion is that the perfect mill would be a mix of both machines. Doom and gloom aside, you can't go wrong with either one.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

I plan on releasing about 50 pictures a day so there's more parts this time. Another reminder, plans available here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oYmIouAEs82lz7O8PvRuLp9xLnQQXpSM?usp=sharing
Also, if there are any fellow CAD designers or draftsmen watching, I welcome your feedback.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

masterful job on the cylinder machining


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks, from you that means a lot. Though some credit should go to the quality of rotary table itself, the hardest part was coming to the realization that I needed to re-organize the units of measure. Degrees are too small for my puny brain to deal with (too easy to loose track of your place in the rotation) so I broke the travel down into full hand wheel turns plus some remainder. Here's the dump for today.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

An excellent presentation! Please keep at it. In general I respect the tutorials of your running mate  Stefan Molyneux,[shown at the end of the video] as well. I look forward to more of the same.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you. I think a good way of stepping into projects like this is to break things down into very small, almost inconsequential steps. If you're not looking forward to doing a particular process, just setting out the tools you think you'll need is enough. The motivation to get it done will be easier when you're more mentally prepared later on. All the photos were annotated not long after they were taken so the full set kinda grew on its own. Attempting to do it all at the end would be impossible. I wouldn't even be able to remember what most were about. 

Stefan Molyneux may be what you see next but YouTube's suggestions are specific to each person based on any user data it's algorithms are able to collect. The content, presentation style and frequency of ads is also user specific. I'd never even heard of him until you commented.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Everything looks good
My only suggestion is that as it looks like the superheater will be going past the burner flame, you may want to replace it with a stainless steel one.
I am not sure how long the copper one will hold up.
Stainless can be bent easily with your bender.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Are there any special considerations when silver soldering copper or brass to stainless?


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

That's all I've got for now. I'll dump some more when I have another major chunk done.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

No, it is the same.
If you have 50 or 55% silver, it may flow a little easier but 45% works too
I see you are using the right flux so it should be easy.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

By the way, here is what I use
1/8" by .016" wall for 1/2" cyl or smaller
3/16" by .020 wall for larger engines

https://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/124/172/=1d4ga92


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Sorry for the delay in progress. The changes I made to the chassis are mostly dependent on the boiler design, which I'm getting close to being done with. Drawings come next and then chips get made. Here's a peak at what's coming:


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Very nice work
I probably could have saved you a little of work here. I mad the mistake of buying a piece of copper from a plumbing supply cut to length which they did with a pipe cuter. It was bent inwards so bad, I couldn't us it.
I usually get my tubing from the metal supply house where it is cut with a band saw. I get it a little over size and clean up one side on the 12" disk sander like you did on your belt sander. Then I cut it to length on my band saw but I don't cut strait through it as the blade will wander that way. Instead, I set the fence for my cut and then rotate the tube while the band saw is lightly cutting the tube. It usually takes 3 or 4 rotations of the tube till it breaks through. I then have a perfectly square cut which is just cleaned up on the sander.

If your step drill is like mine, it makes a nice round hole but it is about .020" undersized. So, I drill the holes first and then turn the bushings to fit the hole.

Not that my way is better, just a little faster and easier.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Can't remember where I got my step drills but the holes come out to size as expected. I have pretty long lengths (5ft+) of the pipes I use on this project for the boiler shell and flue as well as some other sizes that I've had for a long time. I don't have a table saw as of yet.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Interesting explanation of how the annealing takes place
Thanks


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

That's all for now.

The drawing, though still a work in progress is always viewable and I update it pretty regularly when I have time for it.

Plans available here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oYmIouAEs82lz7O8PvRuLp9xLnQQXpSM?usp=sharing


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

nice looking boiler


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## Captain Dan (Feb 7, 2008)

Thank you for your pictures. I have been struggling to get my boiler end plate holes (burner tube openings) in the correct position. I have made numerous end plates that end up being fit for the scrap bin after drilling!! For me it was a "duh" moment when I saw you using a height gauge for measuring the location. So simple, but it alluded me



Dan


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Looks like a first rate project, thanks for sharing!

I am suprised that you made such a deep dish for the boiler ends before trimming it back. Making a deep dish is a LOT harder than a shallow one. You have to compress much more metal in order to reduce the diameter of the initial disk down to the desired diameter of the boiler end.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you for the insight. All these pictures are just as much a guide for me (for future work) as they are for people wishing to make this for themselves. Considering this is my first go at a full scratch build, things have gone really smooth. Certainly there are improvements to be made and I will be reviewing all of this and incorporating it into the design and fabrication process for the next build.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

As always the plans are available here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oYmIouAEs82lz7O8PvRuLp9xLnQQXpSM?usp=sharing

Included in that location is a Test Run Report summarizing my observations from over a dozen runs. The aim being to record conditions for perfect runs as well as to gather information related to the design of the final component group. That's all for now.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good. Nice to see people building things again. Cant wait to see the finished model


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

*Here's a look at what's coming*

Today I finally finished all of the solid modeling. The remainder of the build is split into four major subassemblies. The drawings for these are not yet started but from here forward it'll be: finish a subassembly drawing, build it, repeat.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

That's all for now. The front and rear pilots don't fit too well into any of the other assemblies so it became it's own assembly. Plans available here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oYmIouAEs82lz7O8PvRuLp9xLnQQXpSM


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Glad to see you posting again. It's been a while. I thought you may have hit a wall and had shelved the project.
I love seeing the quality of your machining.
What size hole did you drill for the lubricator
The Youtube videos are good but I can't read that fast can you have more time between each slide?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> but I can't read that fast can you have more time between each slide?


Bill, isn't that what the "Pause" button is for?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Is that the thing that looks like an eleven ?


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks. Considering how dry the subject matter is, I'm trying to keep the slide shows to watchable lengths. Also, sometimes I write a lot, other time just a little. The Lubricator hole is a #76 (.020 inch). I lost about a month of shop time because the motor control board on my lathe broke down. I found a guy tho that specializes in small lathe circuitry who got me back up and running. A link to the plans are in the discription of each video. Click YouTube (between the gear and the full screen rectangle) to take you to the YouTube page for any of the videos.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Yes the > thing is for play. The || thing is pause.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks, I was just kidding about the eleven.

.020" seems a little large to me. Some use a #80 (.0135). I have been using a .008" or just making them adjustable. If it over lubricates, you can put a small piece of music wire in the hole to restrict it. 
The only problem with over lubricating is the mess it makes. I have found that it only takes a few drops per run to keep everything running smoothly.
Since I think this is your first build, it is better to be safe than sorry and have a little over lube.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks, I will change the drawing for a #80 hole. I've saved your note if #80 still isn't small enough on future builds. I came to the size I did by examining a Roundhouse lubricator.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Just my opinion but I think that most manufactures over lubricate their engines.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Looks awesome
Congrats


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

That's all for now. I still need to produce drawings for the body work.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Runs real nice
I noticed you mentioned CNC while milling a part.
I saw where you bought your mill a while back. did it come with CNC or did you install it?


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks, the locomotive is very controlable. I don't have CNC capabitlty. That's just a really fancy DRO (came installed).


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Non of your youtube vids are showing.
probably a MLS problem


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What a mess


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Yes, if you click the "You Tube" text at the top of each window, it still links to the correct video. These recent three I posted are about the cab by the way. Hopefully this gets resolved, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

That works
Does this vid show the same way?
https://youtu.be/f2HxqVJnLfc?t=13


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I tried a few different ways and it isn't you it is either YouTube or MLS


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

I think its MLS. Something to do with an SSL certificate or handshake. Using Opera it asks you if you want to unblock content. If you do the video's appear as they should.

DougieL


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

*Chrome Web Browser*

Here's how you fix video viewing if you use Chrome.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Also, all drawings are now complete. As always, they can be viewed/downloaded here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oYmIouAEs82lz7O8PvRuLp9xLnQQXpSM

If you've downloaded any of this in the past, be sure to get a fresh copy. Every assembly drawing has been updated countless times and I do not keep a revision log. While the changes have generally concerned drawing style, geometry changes to the parts have occured here and there.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

That worked
I guess everyone on MLS will have to do this now
What a bummer
Does anyone know the administrators contact info so he can fix it


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

The locomotive is complete but I will save that photo set until after I have finished the box.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

I'll be back with run videos when it's not so cold outside.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Awesome build
Congrats


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Since completing the build, I've been waiting for Spring. Time to play outside.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

That is a very nice locomotive. I hope my eyes were not deceiving me. It seems like most of the cars in the train were Aristo/Delton wood rock cars (at least that is what the original copper mining concerns called them). I have three of those cars, and they are very nice. Am I correct?

Best Wishes, David Meashey


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Yes, I have gone out of my way to gather this collection of Delton hoppers for this locomotive. They're still out there. The detail is really quite good.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Looks and runs great
Congrats on a nice build and documentation


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

What a great build, very nicely proportioned, runs great. Your track is first-rate, too, a lot of us would do without hot suppers for a long, long time to have a track like that...thanks for sharing the experience!


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