# Best Engine for the Money



## tatios (Apr 14, 2009)

I have several LGB engines. Two Stainz with powered tenders, a C&S Mogul and a UP 2-4-0. The UP loco while it runs nicely and the sound is good the loco looks like a toy. The Stainz are a little small and have no sound as of now. The Mogul is the only thing that looks close but it need a sound card upgrade. This leaves me still looking for another loco or two that will look more realistic. Myself I prefer look and sound steam engines. I know all collectors have your favorites so I would like to here what you have to say. The other question is if you were buying today what would you buy on a budget of $1000.00 


Ed


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

What scale?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I would buy the Aristo Mikado, and spend the time to "make it right". It pulls very well, handles down to 8' curves, and runs nicely. 

I bought one at $265 on sale. That is a deal if you are prepared to do a little "fixing". 

If your budget for one loco is $1,000, I'd probably look long and hard for a used USAT Hudson, but that might be tough. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Also AML has a nice 0 6 0*
*USA Trains has a great 0 6 0 docksider that will pull stumps out*
*AML also has a sweet k-4 if you can find one on ebay for under a 1000.00*
*If your looking at 1/32 scale MTH has some sweet steamers as well* *Aristocraft has a few as well as Greg has said with a little work they can be a nice loco.....*


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Considering you have several LGB Locos now, I have to assume you are running 4 ft dia curves. If true, most of the locos above while very nice, won't operate on 4 ft dia curve track. I have a 2-4-0 LGB Santa Fe Steam Engine with sound and whisle. For the money (about $300.00) I think it has great quality and sound. 

Take a ride on mine. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay-YRA-FPp8


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdbnOcUZ9ew 



Randy


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

'Best' engines for the money? You already have them. The LGB 2017Ds and the LGB Mogul. Rock solid, drop dead reliable, easily repairable IF they ever need it. 

Don't care for the looks? Buy a couple 'brand x' (insert Aristo, B'mann, Buddy L, etc) shells or non-running junkers and graft them onto the chassis you already have. While you are at it wire in a sound card. You'll have what you want for a LOT less than a grand.


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## Schlosser (Jan 2, 2008)

Trainworld had the Bachmann ten wheelers (quite often referred to as the Annie) on sale a couple years back for about 100 bucks. I bought the Black Pennsy because it had Walschaerts valve gear. Not the best runner nor very good sound, and the 4 wheel pilot truck needed additional weight, but the action of the valve gear makes it all worth while! 

My wife thought it looked 'dull'. So I bought an SPC (South Pacific Coast); no fancy valve gear but SHE thinks its 'pretty'. A happy wife is a happy home. 

These engines are nowhere as good as my LGB moguls, but cheap enough to do whatever I'd like to do with them and not feel bad about it.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Bachmann Annie ... Yes they are cheap, but even if you spend a bunch of money upgrading them with sound and battery R/C; if it dies just move all the stuff to a new one! I run a black unlettered version (which of course I have added some lettering from a great little company I know.







), and I continue to get comments from fellow garden railroaders; "That's a Bachmann?". Now, don't get me wrong, I presently have four of them, only two of which are still running, but I still like them.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have one of the newer Annies from Bachman and runs quite well after converting to DCC. Just remember to limit your train size and it will be a very reliable loco. Later RJD


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I'd have to say the Stainz locos are the best all around loco for the money. I have eleven of them, five with sound. When I run three trains on my automated main line, they perform flawlessly, don't draw too much power, and just keep everyone entertained. The starter sets with a sound equipped Stainz, on Ebay now and then, are well worth the expense. Buy the set, keep the Stainz, sell everything thats left. It will pay for the loco.


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

The other question is if you were buying today what would you buy on a budget of $1000.00 





Today I´d buy Chinese made metal locos. Maybe from Accucraft or Missouri works. Chinese made toys seem to raise in price very fast recently, so you´ll never get them again for such low prices anymore. 

Second I´d get me a drive or two for the Bachmann Annies from Barry´s Big train. Best US Product you can get at the moment. Bought one more than 10 years ago. It is still going strong. bary is not the youngest anymore. 

Don´t know about track. There are quite many makers on the market at the moment. So I am waiting for the price battle to begin soon. In Germany they ask for approx 20 euro per Meter, but if you look around, you´ll find them for 14 - 15 Euro here and there. 

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For its size, weight, cost, the LGB stainz is a great running engine, little or no repairs over the years and a good pulling engine. 
For the diesels, the LGB D&RGW #50 (the old 20630) is a great running/pulling engine. My original from 1999 has had no problems to date. 

An LGB catalog rated the Stainz as capable of pulling 44 axles, that is 22 2 axle cars or 11 4 axle cars.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Stainz is the Mercedes 240D of model trains. Simple, basic, cannot be killed and will run for ever and ever and ever and....


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

$1000 can buy you a lot of locomotive. One that is getting harder to find is the LGB Mikado, which will do a 4' diameter curve. Doesn't look that great doing it, but it will make it. Another nice bachmann engine is the Spectrum 4-4-0 and 2-6-0. Both are well under $1000, even if you add sound. They'd look good with your other LGB equipment. Also, the ARisto C-16 is a possibility, and it comes with a caboose.

There are a lot of steam engines available for under $1000 that could work for you. I think the question of scale is valid.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My AML 1:29 0-6-0 USRA type switcher arrives today, I will have some pix, and running impressions this weekend. I did not list it above, because if I had one loco, it would not be a switcher, it would be a road engine. 

For $1000, you could have an Aristo Mikado and an Aristo Mallet... it all depends on how handy you are... as Nick pointed out, the USAT docksider is a nicely built loco with stainless steel tires and quality workmanship, and they are being blown out on Ebay right now at about $300, but again, my first loco would be a road engine, not a 0-6-0 tank switcher. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 06/26/2009 10:03 AM
$1000 can buy you a lot of locomotive. One that is getting harder to find is the LGB Mikado, which will do a 4' diameter curve. Doesn't look that great doing it, but it will make it. Another nice bachmann engine is the Spectrum 4-4-0 and 2-6-0. Both are well under $1000, even if you add sound. They'd look good with your other LGB equipment. Also, the ARisto C-16 is a possibility, and it comes with a caboose.

There are a lot of steam engines available for under $1000 that could work for you. I think the question of scale is valid. 







OOOOOOOOOOOO i forgot about the Mikado from LGB, I havent used mine in over a year i guess i will have to go dig it out.. it does run very well......


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## tatios (Apr 14, 2009)

I appreciate all of your input and opinions. I didn't mention scale but everything I have is LGB so I guess I would stick with equipment that looked decent with LGB. I forgot to mention that I do have a Bachmann Big Hauler ATSF 49 which sounds like a cement mixer while running. I have no experience with the later Anni's but some have mentioned that they have improved greatly. I am currently running 2 ft radius on my indoor layout so LGB engines have been my only consideration. I have some larger radius track but can't utilize it with my current layout . My future plans are to build an outdoor layout when I have finished my backyard renovations. This will allow me to use the larger radii. I have to agree that the Stainz is an smooth running little engine but wish they didn't look so much like a toy. No one mentioned any of the Bachmann Spectrum series engines. I love the look of the K-27 but hear they have the gearing wrong. How about the Shay's? I am wondering about the long term quality of some of the other brands. 


Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By tatios on 06/25/2009 3:57 PM
I have several LGB engines. Two Stainz with powered tenders, a C&S Mogul and a UP 0-4-0. The UP loco while it runs nicely and the sound is good the loco looks like a toy. The Stainz are a little small and have no sound as of now. The Mogul is the only thing that looks close but it need a sound card upgrade. This leaves me still looking for another loco or two that will look more realistic. Myself I prefer look and sound steam engines. I know all collectors have your favorites so I would like to here what you have to say. The other question is if you were buying today what would you buy on a budget of $1000.00 


Ed 



Well, you first post says you want something that does not look like a toy. You want something more realistic. You want a budget of $1000, and the "best engine for the money".


Then after all the suggestions you reveal you have 4' curves and want your new loco to match your LGB stuff. Honestly, you are still in toy-ville. You can buy a more expensive toy, I think you are right, stick to LGB. How about this?











Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like Tatios had already made his decision on what he wants so it was kind of a wasted post. You like LGB so why go through the process of checking for other locos, and your bound to use 4 ft diameter. Later RJD


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys Guys 

Please don't chastise fellow MLS members just because they fail to mention what we may consider obvious. Maybe I'm wrong, but when I here someone talking LGB, I typically think of 4 ft dia curves. This is the beginners forum. We need to ask question when needed and not expect the newbies to know to provide all the information required to give a relative answer to questions. Yes, he has 4 ft curves and yes he has LGB equipment and for the most part likes it, but maybe he is looking for another manufacturer that compares to LGB. Maybe you know there isn't another company that compares to LGB, but Ed or any other newbie might not know that. 

So, give'm a break. 

Randy 

Randy


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/26/2009 4:39 PM
Posted By tatios on 06/25/2009 3:57 PM
I have several LGB engines. Two Stainz with powered tenders, a C&S Mogul and a UP 0-4-0. The UP loco while it runs nicely and the sound is good the loco looks like a toy. The Stainz are a little small and have no sound as of now. The Mogul is the only thing that looks close but it need a sound card upgrade. This leaves me still looking for another loco or two that will look more realistic. Myself I prefer look and sound steam engines. I know all collectors have your favorites so I would like to here what you have to say. The other question is if you were buying today what would you buy on a budget of $1000.00 


Ed 



Well, you first post says you want something that does not look like a toy. You want something more realistic. You want a budget of $1000, and the "best engine for the money".


Then after all the suggestions you reveal you have 4' curves and want your new loco to match your LGB stuff. Honestly, you are still in toy-ville. You can buy a more expensive toy, I think you are right, stick to LGB. How about this?











Regards, Greg 





Myself, I don't have a big problem with "toy-like".
But even I have to admit that looks friggin awfull, Greg.

Ed,
As others have mentioned, get an "Annie" with a "Barry's Big Trains" drive. You should have a good bit of cash left over too.
More detailed than the "Big Hauler". And even without the BBT drive, runs much better than a "Big Hauler".
At the top of my wish list..........a BBT drive.
Ralph


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tatios on 06/26/2009 4:14 PM
....... I have to agree that the Stainz is an smooth running little engine but wish they didn't look so much like a toy.....


Ed 



Ed, take a look here, then get back to me on the toylike looks. http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/StainzBash.html 

I still have a spare Aristo cab and a B'mann sand dome just like the one I used in my scrapbox, if it suits your taste. 


I recently changed out the stack, so the loco currently looks like this:









Sorry, it's no more toylike than a B'mann bug mauler or an Aristo 0-4-0, and certainly LESS toylike than a HLW 0-4-0 (which are fine running engines, just.... puppyish)


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## tatios (Apr 14, 2009)

Guys,

Yes, I have 4' diameter track in my indoor layout where I have limited space. I posted in the beginners forum not the experts forum so I could get some advise on planning my outdoor layout. I feel the place to start is by selecting the engines and rolling stock that will be used. How else will I know what radii and grades to use if I don't have the basic information. If LGB is dead and their aren't any engines that I like then I must come up with something else. 

Greg I agree the GG1 looks ridiculous on the 4' diameter curve. The picture is helpful and really illustrates the need for the larger radii. 


RJD why bother reading and posting in the beginners forum??? Did you even read the post? Does it feel good to piss in my Cheerios? 

Randy thanks for your understanding. Great videos. How much for the dog?


Mik your loco looks great and I hope to eventually have time to do some modifications but first I want to get my outdoor layout built.


I joined the community to draw on the vast experience of the members to build an awesome layout... not to be put down, so help me out with some solid info 



Ed


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## CSG (Jun 13, 2009)

My first engine was the Bachmann Shay. We had some troubles with it at first, but then Bachmann upgraded the trucks and now it runs great. I can couple it up to my log cars and just let it go. Of course, now watch, the next time I run it'll be jumping the track or something. As for the trains looking like toys, in our house, that is what they are. Bachmann's climax is a pretty good little runner, too. I keep hoping for a Heistler. Good luck with your outdoor railroad. It is a lot of work, but a lot of fun, too.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed,

I think you meant you have 4' DIAMETER curve (the starter set curve), not radius. A 4' Radius is an 8' diameter (LGB 1600) curve. We've all been there, just making sure I have your curves right!

The Bachman 4-4-0 and 2-6-0 I mentioned do not go around that tight a turn due to long wheelbaase. Someone with a Bachmann Shay might be able to confirm the minimum radius for

The LGB Mike is a BIG engine, but has an articulated frame allowing it to make the tight turns. The other LGB locos, like the Sumpter Valley 2-6-6-2 or Uintah 2-6-6-2T might be out there in ebay land. All 3 have fairly long overhangs. 

I just thought of another one: The Hartland 4-4-0 or 2-6-0 (check out www.h-l-w.com) They are made in the USA and have strong gearboxes, but detail is somewhat spartan. 

To keep with the LGB stock you already have, take a look at that aristo C-16 2-8-0. The only thing I'd do to one is paint the wheels!! Some Tamiaka paint and a brush and you are in business.

If you were thinking about moving away from the steam engines, you might consider the USA 44-tonner, NW-2, or S-4 switchers. I have a 44 tonner and she does the 2' radius curves no problem. Very nicely detailed locos and the price of admission is well below your $1k. Might be able to get two or three with aftermarket sound for $1k. 

As a general rule, all LGB was made to go around their tightest curves! I think that includes their K-28 and NYC J3a Hudson! But, the price of those is well above $1k!! 

Mark


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## tatios (Apr 14, 2009)

Mark,

You are right! I meant 2' radius not 4' radius. I have both but there is no room in the house for the big stuff. I have a couple of hundred feet of track but not enough room to use it indoors. Unless I can get my wife to let me take over the porch I must build in the backyard. I the past few years I have been riding on the real thing across the country and here in PA and it has inspired me to build an outdoor layout with more realistic locos and rolling stock. Thanks for the tip on Hartland I like to buy American where ever possible...


Ed


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

I used to have all 4' diam on my indoor layout...

I think you can't go wrong with the Aristo FAs... low cost... and mine have run great with no problems ever...

Philip


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed, 
Most of us really ARE trying to be helpful. And you don't have to do a whole hog bash... sometimes just a simple coat of black paint is enough. BUT should you decide you want the parts I mentioned, just PM me. Or maybe send it to me to do a conversion, I could use some train money, lol


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## tatios (Apr 14, 2009)

Mik,

I know nearly everyone is trying to help otherwise they wouldn't be answering questions on the beginners forum. I am an expert in what I do for a living and I never put anyone down who knows less than me, especially someone who is asking for my advise. Enough said. I think the first thing I want to do with the Stainz is add sound. It adds a wonderful dimension to running the trains that was missing when I was a kid. In the process I would like to convert them to MTS so I can run them on the bigger layout too. Maybe while they are apart I will shoot a little paint on them. 


Ed


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lathroum on 06/26/2009 9:02 PM
I used to have all 4' diam on my indoor layout...

I think you can't go wrong with the Aristo FAs... low cost... and mine have run great with no problems ever...

Philip











*I prefer the USA f-3, they pull great and run smooth, never had any issues with them and the will due a 4ft dia curve and they look awsome.







Just a thought.*


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Ed, 
Welcome to the forum. 

When I got here I asked a specific question and was told to search for it, I tried and got very frustrated, came back to the forum and started insulting those from which I sought help. Be carefull, you are getting in my old footprints... 

Omitting the fact of R1 curves while asking for Best looking, Best running Best etc.. puts a kibosh on helping you. A lot of us would drool over having a grand to spend on the Best engine for the money, but, you really don't want The Best Engine, you want the best for your conditions...but failed to mention the most important limitation you face. Was that based on an assumption that all beginners have the same train sets? 

The track that came with my set has never felt a wheel, I spent my money on land, now I have an acre to play with. Of course (for me) I no longer have thousands for a loco! I thought the starter track looked too toylike. See we can have different viewpoints of what is toylike. For me, realistic is broad curves and gentle inclines 1 -2%; 10'diameter track and wide radius switches. Yet when I did a mental comparrison to my previous model rr's 10' = 15'r in HO ! Not so wide radius afterall! Even so a larger loco will still have overhang problems on my track (from a realalism view), so I backdated for smaller locos and rolling stock. 

There's a big difference in being an expert in your field (for money) and asking for free help. Then you chastise those that felt they wasted their free time on your poorly worded question! Much better to admitt your error, apologise, learn and move forward. 

Personally I don't think the engine you want exists! Unless you go towards industrial engines; a 0-4-0 porter or forney, or other small type of loco and very short cars 

In my humble opinion; everything looks toylike on R1 curves. Therefore there is no Best! By your criteria. 

I like building wood structures and 1:24 is simple to convert to scale, can do it in my head, instead of consulting a chart. That limits my choices for rolling stock though as 1:24 isn't as popular and has a scale issue, that I chose to overlook; 45 mm track does not scale to 4' 8 1/2"... oh well. I have a Hartland 4-4-0 and bought the new Aristo C-16 w/caboose for $375 because that is the best loco for me. One for passenger service and the C-16 for freights. I got the wood burning model and can warn you that the long cowcatcher will overhang in a 'toylike' manner on your curves. So what was best for me...isn't necessarily best for you. 

Good Luck, 
John


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Yes,
Chastise the new guy.......again.
If you read his last few posts, he is looking to build a layout outdoors and will no longer be limited to 4' diameter curves.
Ralph


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

If you read his original post nothing was mentioned about building an out door layout. Just wanted info on locos. Now it comes out as to his intentions. Whole new ball game. Kind of miss leading. My post was based on the original question. If your going outdoors then you should consider larger diameter track if possible. Now all the locos mention can be operated.

I apologize if my post was off base but the reply was based on the orginal question. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was trying to be helpful. What I learned here is you have to pretty much depose newcomers to get the whole story. 

The problem is if we ask all the questions we KNOW need answering first, the newbie gets insulted, says "hey I'm a newbie and I don't know all the answers to your questions"... so we can't win there. 

This thread started answering the question from the other viewpoint, take the poster literally, and answer based on the restrictions given and the rest is open, especially when he says he does not want something "toylike" and wants to spend $1000... the natural assumption is that he wants a "real" model and has some reasonable curves to handle ie (like over 8' diameter)... 

Then it's revealed that there are R1 curves, wants to match LGB "gummie" scale... 

Basically here, there is NO WAY TO WIN..... 

It's just part of being new to the hobby and not knowing all the info... and as an "oldster" I get a bit put off trying to help when you cannot win... this is not whining, but it is IMPOSSIBLE for all newbies to form questions completely, and IMPOSSIBLE for the more senior guys to answer their questions to the NEWBIE's satisfaction EVERY time. 

I have a paragraph in my forums that I own and/or manage (about 7 forums) 

New users: read first, search first, learn how to use the forums. The senior guys will not always ask the same question over and over for 10 years. 

Using the search function is not like rocket science... some people honestly, want to put the minimal effort forth to get very experienced answers... I answer FAQs still, but I may quit and just post a link, honestly, I have many other more interesting posts to work on... 

So, there is another side.... as a newbie, cut us old farts some slack.... wait until you get your one hundredth question on metal or plastic wheels.... or rail joiners, or track vs. battery... 

BOTH sides need to cut each other slack, and remember, your first 10-20 posts as a newbie could be a bit rocky.... reading a lot first helps.... 

We DO want to help you! 

Regards, Greg


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

The LGB Mikado is a decent large steamer that can run on the 4 foor diameter curves. THe other steamer I would mention is the LGB Forney which is one of the best running of the LGB Engines and a smooth strong puller. If you have a grand you can purchase a few of them. 
Regards, 
lao


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

This thread is a prime example of why we need a sticky thread at the start of each forum. In the beginners forum, there needs to be a "Read First Before Posting" thread that would stay at the top of the forum. 

It could list the basic information required to have a question answered. 

Is your layout inside or outside 
What radius/Diameter curves are you using or plan to use? explain 2 ft radius = 4 ft diameter / 4 ft radius = 8 ft diameter and so on 
Are you/do you use track power or battery 
Have you decided on a time frame for your layout? 1920s, 1950s or maybe current? 
etc. 

This thread isn't the first where we didn't have a complete idea of what the newbie wanted. But with no guidlines available to help the newbie in providing the basic info, we'll be going through this same senario and sadly upsetting some potentially new LS Railroaders. 

We have to remember that many of the newbies don't even know there is but one type of curve track. They bought a set and it came with 4 ft diameter curves. These newbies come to this site to be educated, not repremanded for not knowing everything.

Randy


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*The only problem with LGB is that there gone and parts for fixing the stuff are going to, if not aready be hard to find. And as i said the last time to a well known dealer [that swore LGB was back] there gone and there not coming back boys..........................







*


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*[SIDE NOTE] I have also found that in times of stressful posts a case of good cold beer comes in handy. HE HE HE







*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's a new Forney (for sale too... contact me by email if you want it, I will make it a good price to atone for my sins!)










Regards, Greg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Just an aside...The EPL/LGB of old is gone forever, but the molds and tooling still exist, it will be back, the question is by whom (Kader?), when (2 years at least based on EPL) and in what context (High-end beautique or general mass market?). but for all intents and purposes for the next couple years, yes they are indeed gone. 

Back to your regularly scheduled program.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Tatios , nothing wrong with 4' diameter, I'm indoors and using 3' and even 2' DIAMETER curves on my portable layout (but then my sanity has been questioned on this forum). R1 are fine for indoor use but you SHOULD limit your engine sizes to fit the curves, I stopped using Annies on my old 10x20 layout as they were functionally just too large to work in operations so now almost all my engines are 0-4-0s of either steam or dismal profile, and all my rolling stock is 20' or shorter, works best for small indoor layouts , at least works best for me. 

If I had up to $1K to blow I would be on the phone ordering either an HLW 2-6-0, at about $450


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Regarding; Sticky notes


Nice thought, but when I was back at that stage, I probably would nave barreled in as I did....

only later did I have time for manners...

Frustrations can do funny things!

John


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 06/27/2009 11:20 AM
*The only problem with LGB is that there gone and parts for fixing the stuff are going to, if not aready be hard to find. And as i said the last time to a well known dealer [that swore LGB was back] there gone and there not coming back boys..........................







* 


Uhh, no. 

Marklin are still maintaining some production. Some things have been removed from the 2009/2010 list.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*UUUUUUUH YES... SHOW ME PLEASE......... AAAAAAAAAAA american stuff we have here. and also not the stuff marklin made over a year ago thats finally getting shipped AAAAA no new production in over a year... LGB is done period... by by, see ya, no more.. WA WA WA ... May get bought out by someone else but i dont think so anytime soon with the way things are going in the world today........*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Let's not derail this one here huh? Of course I have to put my 2 cents in, track is still being manufactured apparently, and some new European stuff apparently got manufactured in hungary, but nothing for us USA types. 

So, is it dead? I guess not technically, but it's not BACK... for sure, back means in former situation, like Arnold's "I'll be back"!!! 

Anyway, they probably will be owned by Kader real soon, and another chapter will begin... 

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm, no production eh? 

http://www.lgb-bahn.de/pdf/lgb_liefertermine_gesamtsortiment_2009-06.pdf


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That document clearly uses the word "planned".... until it is here on the shores, it's not here... why don't we cut this stupid nonsense out, or start a new "is LGB dead" thread? This LGB stuff has been beaten to death. 

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, and the previous months used planned also, and the planned items there are on shelves (eg 44410, 32077) in Europe. 

Just trying to help the new guy by showing that LGB items may be coming and that they are a good suggestion for his limitations for his railway. 

But apparently it does not meet the new trend on MLS of the past year of po po ing different opinions and the lack of help to the new guys.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/27/2009 2:57 PM
... why don't we cut this stupid nonsense out, or start a new "is LGB dead" thread? This LGB stuff has been beaten to death. 

Regards, Greg

Why don't we all bicker and scare the new guys into taking up golf instead? It takes at least two to argue. (I'm not even gonna dignify that one other poster's comments a few back with a reply. I'll just apologize to Ed by saying it isn't his fault. Some of us seem to occasionally forget our meds)


Current availability of factory parts or no, There are plenty of good used items out there. SoI stand by my repairablity comment. I will, however, qualify it by adding that I originally meant that, unlike some I've tried to work on, LGB locos (in general) are simply constructed and so can rather easily be dis-assembled by the average hobbyist without breaking something.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... you tell me it takes 2 to argue (so I guess you are including me), but then you, like me, add a comment. 

I see you and I equally guilty... 

Anyway, I don't think there will be a damaging scarcity of basic LGB consumables... people have spare wheels, gears, bulbs, etc. They are getting expensive, and the future is not certain that these parts WON'T be made in China... 

But, for now, I would not stop anyone from purchasing a LGB loco he wants. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*OOOOOOOOOOOOO here comes the cry baby club trying to twist a post around again even thou he hasnt a clue what he's talkin about.. WA WA WA if he cried half as much at home as he does here no wonder his wife left...







Now back on topic LGB is good as i stated before you just need to keep in mind that parts are becoming scarce and nothing new made in over a year. just because they print a flyer saying they were going to make stuff doesnt mean it will happen and the flyer was printed last year..* 

*P.S. If you take a pot shot at me you'll get one back ten fold.........







*


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, I meant ALL OF US... Poor newbies shouldn't need Nomex undies just to ask a question. I do find it really sad that a few of us seem to have flunked out of Vlad the Impaler's School of Charm and don't even seem to try to be civil.Since I'm not a mod, I can't control them. But I can control ME.

I can choose to focus on what I DON'T like about various brands. Or I can be a blind cheerleader for my favorite one. Or I can try to give a balanced veiwpoint, write a disertation about every subject and annoy everybody. Or I can try to give a short answer, which leaves a few things out. Generally I try for the last.


ALL the manufacturers have made less than perfect items. Whether these 'flaws' are critical, or even flaws, depends on the criteria of the buyer. I've had Bachmann, Aristo, HLW, and LGB locomotives. I eventually chose to go primarily with LGB for a number of reasons - including the durability issue and how they looked on my layout. Vic has/had a similar sized layout. For HIM, the 'best' choice was HLW. Both choices might look just a bit odd on YOUR layout... So you run mostly Aristo (I think?) Which of us is 'wrong'? none of us, or maybe all of us. The only right answer is what is right for us, and even that isn't absolute. More of a 'practical', and/or 'desirable' than 'right'. For instance, I might WANT something like a Big Boy (actually I don't -- maybe a B&O EM-1, lol), but for me to choose to BUY one would probably have to be considered a 'waste' of money, even if I HAD it to spend -- unless I just wanted to put it on a shelf and look at it.... or move. 


Newbies don't NEED all the FurdvsChebbyvsDudge junk. BUT on that note, Auburn is 'dead', Duesenberg is 'dead' too, but would anyone in their right mind send one of either to the junkyard if it showed up in their driveway just because finding parts MIGHT get expensive? Ernst Paul Lehmann never claimed to make anything but great running TOY trains. I'm not sure Bachmann ever claimed to actually make anything but reasonably good looking, reasonably affordable ones, either. Not entirely the same market, definitely not the same marketing strategy.

Now, I choose to kitbash because I have the time and inclination, if not the talent -- because I get more or less what I want. Others choose to buy, not wrong either, just different. The big difference is that I don't have the luxury to complain if one of my creation looks or runs like crap... I just have to rework it until I'm satisfied (or out of time/money/patience or all 3)...


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Woah! _New_ engine Greg? If I'm not mistaken that's one of those limited edition SR&RL _black _Forneys that was only supposed to be available to members of the LGB club! It's actually one of the oldest models which makes it German made (it all goes to quality control!) If you want an engine that has the bang for your buck then that one is the one! The LGB Forney is a magnificent puller and although some details are necessarily compressed, it is lettered for a road that actually used Forneys (abeit one that runs _2ft. narrow gauge!_) If I remember correctly, the SR&RL version doesn't come with sound (which is good as it would have been analog rather than digital.) There's not a lot of room for extra circuitry but it already has good weight and is a smooth runner! It goes around 2ft. radius curves without a problem and can be bashed into a credible engine with minimal effort. That one would be my vote!


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

I was out all day so unable to intervene ... but collectively, you guys need some babysitting. Everyone has had their say now civilized or not ... let's stop the bickering and and act courteously. By the way, two wrongs do not make a right and if someone does err on the side of being more hostile than is normal, there is no need to take a personal affront and respond in kind. Leave the other guy some space.

All of you are about equally guilty imho after my reread of the posts made here ... I will be watching closely and any further discourteous commentary will be dealt with promptly.

Regards ... Doug


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I think only two others brought Hartland Locomatives into this. I will be the third one. For the money and what you get it is well worth it and they last. Many people say they are toylike and probably they are right but a little makeover makes a huge difference. WHen you compare prices you cant beat HLW. Dont get me wrong Im not a big fan of LGB but that is only because of the prices. Just to show you what a toy can look like when painted. I would buy 1 Big Johns and a 2-6-0 Mogol from HLW Whatever money left over I would by a few macks.

Before









After










2-6-0 Mogol
http://www.h-l-w.com/Products/Steam/Modern-Mogul-web-lg.jpg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Greg, I sent a PM but I guess you didnt get it, whatcha asking for the Forney? Just how "sinful" have you been?, hopefully you've benn a bad enough boy to put it my poverty stricken reach? PM me


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Well. last year in a fit of madness I bought the LGB SR&RL Forney, for what passes over here as a song, and never regretted it. My grandaughter, who is the main user of our smaller locos, thinks it's pretty cute. It has been mentioned that this loco is a fearsome hauler, and by golly that's about right - thirty box cars on level track just to try it out. I'm going to try out a little-known US company for sound, too. 

It might not be an exact model, but having done some homework it appears to be as near as darnit 1/19th scale - the British garden railway scale of 16mm to the foot, and looks good in front of some of the larger passenger cars there, too. 

Earlier this year the British GR magazine did an excellent two-part maintenance article, showing how this surprisingly complicated loco can be made to run like new. 

I've got no regrets at all about spending $250 on this great model. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## tatios (Apr 14, 2009)

Gentlemen,

I had no intention of stirring up such controversy with my simple question of what you collectively thought was the best engine for the money. It is very difficult to go to a hobby store and see the various engines. It is impossible to see the various brands run to gather information. The full service hobby store is fast going the way of the Dodo. I guess E-bay and the internet have killed them off. I never mentioned the dreaded 2ft radius curves because I knew that was limitation which I didn't want to put on the discussion. If LGB was still in business and built engines I liked I would never have asked the question. I know their quality was excellent. I have LGB because my wife brought it for me 18 years ago to run around the Christmas tree after we had been introduced to LGB in Germany. I did not even know LGB was out of business until this spring when I went to buy a gift for my young nephew. I was happy to see a kid that wasn't consumed by video games and television so I wanted to buy him a train set. I remember entertaining myself for hours and hours with my old American Flyer trains. My research on what happened to LGB lead me to this forum. The business about all the different versions of "G" scale is a wrench in the works forcing collectors to choose one scale or another. One thing is certain you guys are passionate about your choices when it comes to model trains.

Peace,

Ed


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

R1s may be a limitation, but they are anything but dreadful


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## Schlosser (Jan 2, 2008)

And, as usual, vsmith is right. The R1 (LGB) radius, 600 mm (600/25.4) or 23.62 inches, is the ONLY radius in my house; and it is NOT dreadful. 

Art


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

*You might also want to consider the late-production ("38-ton", "steel" cab) Bachmann 2-truck Shay; smooth runner, excellent puller, and it will handle R1 radius without difficulty (here's mine on "plow duty" a couple of year's back) *







:











*I specifically specified the LATE-production Shays because the trucks have metal (die-cast) gearboxes; the earlier Bachmann Shays (common on eBay) have plastic trucks which were prone to rapid deterioration*







*(the electrical pickup mounts in particular). The typical "street" price on the new 38-ton Shays is $350 ~ $400, well within your budget. (Although if you're handy with electrical soldering, & catch one of the old ("36-ton", "wood" cab) Shays on eBay at a good price, the upgraded die-cast trucks are available separately from Bachmann to upgrade the older Shays). Here's one of the original Bachmann Shays upgraded with the die-cast trucks in service on my garden line:*











*You might also consider the Bachmann Heisler (about the same price as the 2-truck Shay):*











*& another older Bachmann engine, the Climax (out-of-production for a few years, typical going rate on eBay @ $300). The Climax in particular is the smallest of the 3 & looks right at home with the smaller LGB locos on R1 radius; mine is usually in service as the local switcher at my mine complex due to it's short length (it's the loco directly in front of the mine tipple): *






















*As some others have said, the late-production ("version-5 chassis") of the "Annie" is a good runner (just don't expect it to pull as long trains as the logging locos); I generally use mine in passenger service:*










*ALL of these engines will run on R1 radius, track very well (the Shay, Hesiler, & Climax were used on logging & mining railroads, often on rough temporary track), & some judicious shopping might net you one of EACH for a $1000 budget. *







*Tom*


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll chip in: In my opinion and experience the best engine for the money is the Bachmann Anniversary. You get a lot of detail, and the newest version of the drive is really very good--robust construction, reliable power pickup and it pulls very well. It comes in a couple different flavors, some more "narrow gage" looking and some almost standard gage looking. It's modifiable and there's a lot of info available about how to change it. When and if you wear it out you can get a BBT drive and it will be bulletproof, and you will still be way under $1000. I have two of them, one running pretty much as it came from the box (except with RC and sound) and the other modified into a standard gage 0-6-0. They are both extremely reliable.

If you really want to spend $1000 bucks then maybe look for an older LGB in good shape.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

im an lgb guy too 
engines for about a grand (or under) that i really like 

like the genesis (not steam)-get the whole deal-engine and cars for half of your budget if you look -amazing imho 

as mentioned the 
2063 davenports 
the forneys 
the euro mallets are great -the US ones are even greater-and just about your price 
i happen to really like the WPY diesel too-a great runner and just nice looking imho 

if youre interested a set of F-7s are a treat you wont regret even if you love steam (unless not in your era, etc) you might be able to get and A-B-A for about a grand depending on the road name-one of the coolest things LGB ever made IMHO 

the 2017 locos are some of the best when tethered using the supplied cable-just run and run on the dirtiest track-a little effort and they can be made to look rather american-add a cab domes and stack and the change is amazing 

the sound forneys are great too-all are digital 

another engine that is a very nice but not lgb, but pretty compatible is the small bachman shay-not weatherproof but otherwise handles tight radii and pulls quite well-some can be in need of replacement trucks if early-they are a pleasant thing to run and to watch


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

I have to agree that the Stainz is an smooth running little engine but wish they didn't look so much like a toy. 


Except for scale (approx 1 : 19 for most dimensions) and gauge the Stainz is a rather close model of an existing 760mm gauge prototype. LGB must have sold millions of them. 

Krauss built a few hundred of this 0-4-0 type.So you can alway work on your copies and make something you like out of them 





































Well, you can even Americanize a Stainz: 










I gave the above loco a trailing truck and a new cab, to make it into something like a poor man´s Forney. 

Until a few years ago, you could get bashed up Stainzes for 40 - 50 Deutsch Marks on every flea market. 
Meanwhile they introduced the Euro, so you have to invest 60 - 80 Euro on the 2nd hand market today. 

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


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