# Will the real Jigstones please stand up?



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Was going through my links on my browser.

I've found many company that has dropped off the map.

Tried my jigstones link www.jigstones.com it no longer works.


From other references, it appears that someone named Linda Spencer was the US distributor, and had a company called "Sticks 'n Stones".

But I found this link: www.jigstone.info where a German manufacturer claims to be the original inventor, and states that "
*Sticks 'n' Stones (by Linda Spencer Elbridge, NY) is offering poor quality copies of JigStones**TM moulds. *"

So what's up with all this... I cannot fine a Sticks 'n' Stones site. The German site refers to a distributor in the UK...

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg- 

Per the Internet Achive's last copy in June of last year: 

http://web.archive.org/web/20080610...index.html 

It appears that Sticks and Stones was their US dealer from these pages, and hold the copyright on the Jigstones.com pages is to them also.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

hmm... sounds like there has been a "falling out" 

I got my one set from Linda MANY moons ago. They have gone through hundreds of uses and haven't degraded much. Perhaps Linda's newer stuff is not up to snuff but the older stuff was fine.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I find the German claim dubious.. 

using the "wayback" machine, www.jigstones.com goes back to 2001, and was "P.O. Box 211 * Elbridge, New York 13060-0211" 
in 2001..so thats 8 years of Elbridge NY history: 

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.jigstones.com 

http://web.archive.org/web/20010720...tones.com/ 

(thats an archived webpage from 2001, not the "live" jigstones webpage..) 

The German page, www.jigstone.info, also using the wayback machine, brings up no history at all.. 
which implies to me its a very recent webpage.. 

plugging in the German webpage of the manufacturer who claims Linda is selling cheap copies of "their" product, 
brings up a history going only back to 2007: 
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.bretzler.eu/ 

So far, Linda in Elbridge, NY is the clear winner..based on Internet history.. 

Web page since 2001 for Linda..only since 2007 for the Germans.. 
not conclusive proof either way, but its a strong case for Linda.. 

(I know nothing about the product or Linda..I have never used Jigstones, or met Linda.. 
im just posting what I found from a bit of internet sleuthing) 


Scot 



Edit:

I just noticed that 
archived 2001 webpage:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010720...tones.com/
does say "US Distrubition"..which implies it probably didnt originate in the US afterall..
which is a point for the Germans! 

(I have no idea why there is a grey box here..I didnt make it on purpose) 






Looks like it perhaps did originate in Germany..Linda in the USA because a distributor and set up the first (probably) English language webpage back in 2001..
but something happened and the Germans are no longer happy with the US product..for reasons unknown..
and the US webpage has also recently been taken down.. 


Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If Linda claims to be the distributor, not the manufacturer, then, as far as I can tell, there is no one out there disputing: 
1. that Linda is not the manufacturer. 
2. The german company is the manufacturer. 

I think I'll contact Linda and see what she says, just for kicks... the Germans have already made a statement. 

(While the wayback machine is fun, just because you could not find one particular German site does not invalidate anything) 

Regards, Greg


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## samevans (Jan 3, 2008)

Jig Stones originated in the UK and I bought my first set from the originator Peter ? The business IIRC was sold to a German company. I believe Linda Spencer was distributor for both the original manufacturer and the German company. I have not heard about this latest claim, so cannot comment. Ther UK distributor is currently Back2Bay6 - they have a website.

Best

Sam Evans


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds to me like one of two things. Either:

1. Somebody tried to shake somebody down for a better deal, and the Germans want to push a new US distributor by talking trash about the old one.
-or-
2. The US distributor decided they could make more money (or get better service, unlikely) by cutting the Germans out and having a counterfeit or 'similar' product produced 'elsewhere', and weren't particularly worried about the ethics of continuing to use the original product's name.


Either way, something smells.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By samevans on 30 Sep 2009 10:58 AM 
Jig Stones originated in the UK and I bought my first set from the originator Peter ? The business IIRC was sold to a German company. I believe Linda Spencer was distributor for both the original manufacturer and the German company. I have not heard about this latest claim, so cannot comment. Ther UK distributor is currently Back2Bay6 - they have a website.

Best

Sam Evans 



Do you remember what year you bought those original Jig Stones?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sam, if you go to the german site of A & A Bretzler (the company that owns jigstones, bought from the UK company) *[url]http://www.bretzler.eu/*[/url]

And click the jigstones link on the left side, it gives you the jigstones page: *http://www.bretzler.eu/i...trong>**

On this page, there is a link that says in English: Customers from US please click here, clicking that takes you to this: [url]http://www.jigstones.info/[/url] 

Where Bretzler says that Linda is making unlicensed copies. All of this is current.


Just info, but here's the links to make your own conclusion.

Strange there is no comment on Linda's site. 


Regards, Greg*


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 30 Sep 2009 11:39 AM 
* 
Strange there is no comment on Linda's site. 


Regards, Greg 




Linda's site appears to be defunct:

http://www.jigstones.com/

and has been since before this thread started..

(although actually the main page is in fact still "live"..but it's set to display nothing but a blank white screen..)

looks like all subpages have been deleted though:

http://www.jigstones.com/pages/news.html
http://www.jigstones.com/pages/stor...plans.html
http://www.jigstones.com/pages/story-bridges.html

etc..

Scot
*


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## Dennis Cherry (Feb 16, 2008)

I have molds from Jigstone that are from the first year Linda had them available and also newer molds. They all look like the same material and no manufacturers logo on any of the molds. 

How can you tell the difference if their is one?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jigstones.com is owned by Jon De Keles... (LSOL owner), weird... maybe he bought the name when Linda gave it up, or maybe they were in business together... 



Linda's business was Sticks 'n' Stones... but cannot find it anywhere. 


here is a link to the archived pages (this are not live, but archived by someone else) http://web.archive.org/web/20080610...index.html

Oh well, I guess you order them from the UK if you want them now.

Regards, Greg


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## Sourdoh (Jan 6, 2008)

Logic seems that Linda was poaching from the Germans and they spanked her and she skeedaddled out of town.


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

Jig Stones was at the Fall ECLSTS just last week. I have also talked with Al Lathrem from Arizona and he has sold Jig Stones in the past and did a clinic at this year's NGRC. 

I probably have phone numbers, email adresses and street addresses for both if you need them. 

David


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## gscaleisfun (Jan 14, 2008)

Jig Stones ( Al Lathrem) may do a clinic at the SWGRS


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I got my set of 1:32 molds well over 10 years ago


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

Like George, I have the molds that I purchased more than 10 years ago. My buildings were featured on Linda's website in her newsletters from 1998. I remember she was having issues with imports as she was obtaining them from the UK. Then the rights were sold to the German company. At that point the mold material looked different than the originals from the UK. I don't know whether I have both types but I never saw any difference in castings from the ones I own. I was not at the East Coast LSTS this past weekend. I know that Linda was also selling some of Precision Products sheets because my article in June 2000 GR magazine indicated the need for a roofing material for Jigstone buildings. So cast the concrete roof using the backside of PP plastic sheets. Now PP is owned by Ozark Miniatures. Who knows????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

David, would love the contact info for Al, always thought it was a cool product for the creativity-impaired like myself. 

Regards, Greg


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## CactusJAL (Dec 27, 2007)

Greg
I have been using and selling JigStones molds since well before Axel Bretzler came into the picture, they were created and made in England by Peter Chandler and represented in this country by Linda Spencer. Peter sold the business to Axel who is German

I gave 4 JigStones clinics in Denver at the National GRS convntion, two were lecture and two were make and take. To cast the blocks I used a number of different molds, some original from when I became involved with JigStones and some new ones manufactured by Linda Spencer. As I furnish everything needed to build the buildings except paint, I had a lot of casting to do. There are seven different molds involved, three for the anchoring cement and four for the doors, windows, and roofs. The two kits I furnish are comprised of large and small H's, joining pieces, angle pieces, and miscellaneous cast resin doors, windows, and roofs. Thirty of the kits had six large H's and forty had seven, that's 460 large H's. I have three original molds and two new molds with each mold making two large H's. If my math is correct that translates into 46 casts for each mold. The new molds look very much as they did before I started. While the new molds don't have anywhere near the castings of my original molds I have no reservations as to their durability. 
Linda took down the JigStones site to work out some problems and I hope it will be back up soon. Linda is a school administrator and due to the economic times has gone back into the classroom to teach a couple of classes so how much time she can give to this project is at this time unknown. If you or anyone else have further questions or would like to order product you can contact me at [email protected].

FYI 

The English distributor shows only a partial JigStones catalog and lists much as out of stock and for some reason the link from Axel Bretzlers site to his does not work
The (Jigstones.info) site does not work on either Safari or Firefox browsers.


Alan Lathrem, Tucson,AZ




Bretzler


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## peterpica2 (Oct 1, 2009)

That's a lot of malarky! I've been using JigStones from Linda Spencer for years; matter of fact, I built the website for her that used to be served by Jon DeKeles at LSOL.

What you've been reading from Axel is pure hogwash and may be subject to pending libel litigation by Linda. Linda is pursuing other interests in life and no longer markets the product, hence the removal of the website from circulation by yours truly.

Alan Lathem continues to market the exact same moulds that Linda did for the past several years. His are not "counterfeit" either!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting stuff. 

Just a few side comments: the link from A Bretzler is flawed, it has an extra period at the end of the link. I found that and got there, but the domain jigstones.info is a SEPARATE Internet domain name from jigstones.com.... Jon DeKeles owns Jiigstones.com, Axel owns jigstones.info, and it APPEARS that he bought jigstones.info to help prove his point (my interpretation), because he does not control jigstones.com. 

Alan, can you contact me my email so I can get a list of what you offer, seems like you are the last man standing in the US for this product. My email is in my signature. 

Thanks for all the clarification. 

Regards, Greg


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## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

Anybody interested in brick/stone making...heres something interesting from the UK. He has brick and stone molds. 
Google http://www.malcolmsminiatures.co.uk/ go to Materials.

Should not cost much in postage.


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

The product that is included in the link above, appears to advocate molds used to impress patterns into an air dried clay. 
If this is the case then I would suggest the precision products sheets sold by Ozark Minatures. In this application I would refer folks to the station and techniques used by Dennis Ray... Station patterned after John Allen.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By CactusJAL on 01 Oct 2009 12:51 AM 

The (Jigstones.info) site does not work on either Safari or Firefox browsers.




I just tried that site with both Safari and Firefox.
Worked fine for me - also worked fime with Camino the browser I usually use.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Will the real Jigstones please stand up?

To answer Greg's original question - the "real Jigstones" today is Mr. Bretzler.
He bought the world wide rights to the product many years ago from Peter Chandler in the UK. That included the production capability and the proprietary material used to make the molds.

As I understand it, there were copies made of some of the products and sold as "Jigstone" molds a la "China" copied style. And some of those copies found their way back to the UK distributor and eventually to the manufacturer who found these copies to be vastly inferior to the original mostly because of the base material used. 


Based on this thread, it sounds as if Linda Spencer sold both, the original jigstones molds and the copies, so it will be difficult to determine which one a customer actually bought.

For anyone interested in a US source for the real jigstones, they are available through Train-Li-USA.

http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/h...8_112.html

One other little tidbit that might be of interest. Jigstones is continuing to develop new molds, so the product is certainly alive and well even though it didn't seem like that from a US point of view.

The next mold that's in the works now is a mold to cast curved pieces useful to contruct towers and simlar structures.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Knut, 

I got an email from Axel yesterday, and this is good news, I like the idea of the product, and also, from my research, the original mold material seems to be superior. 

And I get to buy more stuff from Axel, who I deal with already. 

Great! 

Regards, Greg


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## stonejigger1 (Dec 27, 2007)

Hi. Peter Chandler here. Obviously I don't want to get involved much with the current intrigue of the JigStones saga...I know no more about current situations than anyone else. 


I would like to just say though that the JigStones product has always been - at least when I was supplying it, and I guess still the case - a very time consuming hand production process. It was never in great enough demand to be machine produced, but of enough popularity to be hand produced.


This meant that suppliers such as Linda Spencer often had to wait a lengthy period for their stock to be delivered, and at peak times the demand went beyond the production rate. When I was last supplying Linda and Axel back in the mid-90's, the volume of moulds required was, for a small one-man production team such as I, a considerable and tediously repetitious undertaking. Some of the parcels of moulds were almost impossible to lift for their weight. I never even got to use the system myself much at all as I could never catch up with the requirements from both Germany and the US - not to mention the UK. As the demand was more outside of the UK, I sold the whole bundle to Axel, which made a lot of sense. as the shipping to Germany was confounding the continued viability.


As far as I know, the same silicone rubber brand is still being used by Axel as it has long proved to be the right choice. Some of my own moulds are now almost twenty years old and still serviceable! You cannot cheapen the material if repeat castings by the hundreds are to be the feature of the system. Axel did tell me that, extraordinarily, he is one of the (if not the highest) utiliser of the silicone rubber in Germany! This is because the material is normally used for short run pattern making and laboratory use - not for long term consumer products.


So, you really do get what you are prepared to pay for.


If a cheaper alternative which has limited shelf life has found its way into the hobby, then this probably has not been intentionally a cost cutting exercise - I don't think anyone would be that naive to think they could retain custom through supplying inferior moulds - it is more likely the result of misguided information from the raw material suppliers.
These days I regret to say I'm more an armchair modeller where garden railways are concerned. My main interest now is creating not model buildings, but entertainment through my music (www.tawmusic.com).

If any of the old fellow exhibition goers are still around - and I know some are still out there keeping up the good work - I send my greetings from 'sunny' North Devon. Greetings especially to Tag 'down south'.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Huh??????????????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

spammer last night, added posts to a lot of dead threads... moderators/Shad must have deleted the posts, but they still went "unread"... 

Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Just as an update:
 
The entire JigStones® product line is stocked here in the US with us Train-Li-USA and can be ordered Online or over the phone.  We try to have all products immediateyl available, however, we are still learning the demand pattern, and can be temporarily waiting for new stock on items that sold quicker than anticipated.
 
JigStones® is a registered trademark in Europe and here in the US. Jigstones products are sold over here in white fold-over shipping boxes with light yellow labels with our Train-Li-USA logo on there.  All our products are direct imports from Germany (A & A Bretzler) the owner of the Jigstones molds.  Jigstones products are made from the highest quality Silicon rubber from the chemical company Dupont.
 
We continue to look forward to working with all of you.


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