# Gauge 3 the forgotton gauge for live steam



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

Gauge 3, over 100 years old and still a mystery.
Even the Bassett Lowke Flying Scotsman in steam in the video is 50 plus years old!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuklxoABETw

Other engine running is custom made and only10 years old. Some of the 'oldies' might not have been too accurate with details but I have always felt they have character


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I haven't forgotten it, but I switched to F scale (1:20.3.) I still have the gauge-3 trucks from a 1:22.5 4-6-0 tender.


----------



## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Trevor, Your engine looks wonderful with that rake of Teak coaches..


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Trevor - I'd dispute that it's forgotten, but rather offer the opinion that few of us in UK have the space to give these beautiful machines the full justice they deserve! 

Best 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

That was beautiful, just to clear up my own personal ignorance what is the track gauge in Gauge 3? What is the scale ratio?


----------



## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

That was beautiful, just to clear up my own person ignorance what is the track gauge in Gauge 3? What is the scale ratio? 

http://www.gauge3.org.uk/about.html 

Scale is 1:22.5. Gauge is 63.5mm or 2 1/2". It is the standard gauge to the 45mm narrow gauge. 

Scott


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Scott,

Some where the math went wrong I think, if F scale is 1 to 20.3 and is 15mm = 1 foot, then #3 scale should be a larger scale than 1 to 22.5 because the stated scale is 13.5mm = 1 foot according to the web page you gave the link to. Please realize that I am not trying to start a war I am just trying to figure this out. When I multiplied 13.5mm X 4.7 (fast approximation of standard gauge) I came up with something very close (63.45) to the versus 63.5mm established track gauge so I feel the 13.5mm to the foot is accurate.


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

I just go by the track gauge. If gauge 3 is 2.5 inches and standard gauge is 56.5 inches, that equates to 22.6 or very close to 1:22.5.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Trevor, that was fun to watch. I have LBSC's plan for "Green Arrow" in 2.5". It's a tempting project.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim Hadden has dual gauge, 1 and 3. He uses the gauge 1 track for narrow gauge and the gauge 3 track for standard gauge. This way it all looks correct instead of the narrow gauge engines and cars looking so much larger than the standard gauge engines and cars.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

main131 also has dual gauge for much of his trackage - that's why he is so generous with his layout for the rest of us for whom Gauge 3 is somewhat out of the way. Incidentally, here in UK, apart from the efforts of a few members of the Gauge 3 Society who build short runs of specific models, the Garden Railway Specialist dealership, under the auspices of Michael Adams, have introduced a HUGE range of British outline Gauge 3 wagons in kit form, as well as a few electrically-powered steam locomotives [also in kit form] - mainly, it has to be mentioned, Great Western types. They also have a fine kit for the GWR 'Flying Banana' diesel railcar that main131 posted here a couple of months back, although AFAIK his is not a kit. 

As an aside, Gauge 3 has been around since the very beginning of model railways here and in Germany, at the end of the 19th century, so making any comparison with the newcomer F-scale is a waste of time and energy, except as a talking point. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Some where the math went wrong I think, if F scale is 1 to 20.3 
Andre, 

You missed SCott's post (probably crossed with yours.) Gauge 3 is 1:22.5. 

Incidentally, that expalins LGB's choice of 1:22.5. If you model 'meter' gauge in garden scale or'Gauge-3 scale' it is 45mm in 1:22.5 - which conveniently happens to be Gauge 1 track! 

Pity the US narrow gauge is 3', not 100 cm (hence F scale.)


----------



## 212 degrees (Jan 13, 2008)

I would like to find someone interested in building a live-steam model of a GWR 7-foot broad gauge locomotive in a scale of 1:32 to run on gauge 3 track. 

You say I should do it all myself, but wouldn't we both rather see something that would actually run?


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By 212 degrees on 29 Mar 2011 02:12 PM 
I would like to find someone interested in building a live-steam model of a GWR 7-foot broad gauge locomotive in a scale of 1:32 to run on gauge 3 track. 

You say I should do it all myself, but wouldn't we both rather see something that would actually run? 



Dear Mr degrees [is that your real name?], if you are not yet in the Gauge 1 Model Railway Association then I urge you to join it without delay. You see, the most likely candidates to build your unusual and fascinating model [a Crampton, perhaps?] are more likely to be found in that group of people. 

The range of expertise there is astounding. Finding somebody to build such a model might be difficult, although Dick Abbott in Canada is a more than likely candiate, but by joining the association, the door is wide open for the many builders in the association here who could help you out as well. 

It also helps to be rich, BTW, this is going to cost you a fortune...but we'd all like to see it when it's done.

Best of luck

tac
www.ovgrs.org
G1MRA #3641


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Dear Mr Degrees,
IF you have the money, I am sure that you will not find a problem in having one built.
BUT where would you run it.
You might add Gauge 3 to your own railway, but then you probably will not be able to run many other places.
Many years ago, I was invited as a guest to a very nice Gauge 3 Get Together in the UK, to a track sadly, so I understand, no longer there.
I'm sure that Main131 can confirm. 
The attached photos show the terminus where there was even a working dock! 
It really was a spectacular layout, and just shows what can be done. 
But, whilst it was very impressive, I found the problem is the physical size of everything.
You might not think that having everything nearly 50% larger would make much of a difference, but to me it does.
A full length passenger train behind a large (in UK terms) locomotive needs lots of space to look good and to stretch its legs, something that most of us in our gardens just can't fit in.
I found that Gauge 1 is 'just the right' size for me and my garden.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

Morning David
We must have met.
I was at Mike May's on the day that you took those pictures.

Although I am not in either of the two pictures, it is my LMS Patriot 'The Royal Leicestershire Regiment' in crimson lake at the head of The Irish Mail fully coaled and waiting departure.

In fact the front shed plate on the loco is 7C Holyhead which, as everyone knows is the railhead to cross the Irish sea.
There was an incline in front of the train at the throat of the staion which meant opening the regulatorfairly wide but not too wide as you could get wheel spin with that heavy load of 12 wheelers.

For some reason the area in the foreground, normally full of water with a couple of tugs docked at the quayside was empty on that particular day
Happy days. As you say.

Mike closed the line within the last two years due to ill health


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I would like to find someone interested in building a live-steam model of a GWR 7-foot broad gauge locomotive in a scale of 1:32 to run on gauge 3 track. 

It has always been in the back of my mind that gauge 1 (45mm or 1.75") is Broad Gauge in O-scale (1/48th.) I have a book of drawings (The Broad Gauge, Oakwood Press) of locos taken from early Locomotive Magazines - all in 7mm (1/45th) scale. You could run it all kinds of places. 

I'm sure one of the smaller live steam locos available in g-1 could be converted. The Accucraft Ruby has a pretty small boiler, but all the drawings show locos with inside cylinders - a slight engineering challenge. The Aster "Lion" might make a good starting point, especially as it comes as a kit?


----------



## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Trevor

Gauge 3 is not forgotten but Gauge 2 is definitely a memory. With the passing of Tony Hobson there are no known operational tracks in the UK. 

Gauge 2 was based on a track gauge of 2 inches and a scale of 1:28.25. Not so far from the Aristo 1:29th machines.

Anyone wanting GWR Broad Gauge locos and carriages made to 1/32nd scale but for running on Gauge 3 track should contact Wagon & Carriage Works who were offering some interesting items in this unuusual (if not unique) combination of scale and gauge.


----------



## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

I recently joined Pennsylvania Live Steams, where I will be running my Gauge 1 live steamer along with others of common interest there. PLS has a multi track including 2 1/2 inch gauge for Gauge 3 scale engines, which I hope to see live steam engines running.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

There ya go, Mr Degrees - the PLS have a ready-made track for you to run your unusual model on.....what more could you ask for? 

All you have to do now is to get her built. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


----------



## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I could be mistaken, but as I remember it, the PLS 2 1/2 gauge track requires that you ride on (or behind). Someone correct me if I'm worng.


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

I would imagine that the 2 1/2" track at the PLS is the typical 'sit astride the track' multigauge with 2 1/2", 3 1/2", 4 3/4", 5" and whatever. 
Not ideal for running a smaller locomotive on. 
Our local big live steam group added Gauge 1 by inserting 1/8" steel between two tracks and I was urged to run on it. 
It was rusty, and bumpy, and just 'horrible'!!! 
Also as it ran across a very large pond on a trestle bridge, it was not very convenient either. 
Needless to say, I did not return. 
The smaller gauges should run on proper garden railways! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## smeghead (Apr 6, 2012)

Posted By xo18thfa on 28 Mar 2011 06:48 PM 
Thanks Trevor, that was fun to watch. I have LBSC's plan for "Green Arrow" in 2.5". It's a tempting project. Bob, do you still have the info on where you got the plans for the "GREEN ARROW". I am about 3/4 of the way through building mine but some of the plans details are just about washed out.
Thanks Peter


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter

Hope this will be of help to you.

Tee Publishing - Small Locomotive Construction - How To Build A 2 1/2" Gauge "Green Arrow"[/b]


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Got the book from TEE, see Steve's link. If you order one, get LBSC's "Princess Marina" book too. It's a 3.5" gauge, but a still a great work.

At john-tom's website you can download LBSC's 2.5" gauge "Ayesha" plans. It's just the plans, no text.

Ayesha


----------



## Old Boy (Feb 9, 2009)

It should be pointed out (mostly for Americans) that 2.5" Gauge and Gauge 3 are two different pursuits. Note I said pursuits, not gauges or scales. Gauge 3 is considered purely "scenic", not passenger hauling, and primarily electric while 2.5" Gauge is generally thought of as the "model engineered" version of Ga3 encompassing live steam and passenger hauling and many builders go ahead and bump the scale to 1/2". Within it's small (but active and growing) ranks Society members have done a great deal of research, preservation, and publication on locomotive modeling. One of the best recent models of the Stirling Single, and a book to detail it's design and construction, is in 2.5"ga by a 2.5" Gauge Society member.


----------



## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); During my time as a member of "The Gauge '3' Society" I found that membership numbers were roughly static at circa 200. 

regards 

ralph


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

NEED A PROJECT in Ga 3 

Here you go!!!! 

2-1/2" gauge - 1/2" scale Locomotive project. 4-8-4 Engine has much well fine work already completed. Coal fired copper 7 tube boiler 3.25” dia. X 24” long. 8 assembled 3.25” dia. machined drivers. 7 drivers have leaf spring suspension on the journal bearings. Front and rear wheels are 1.437” dia. The Cylinders have .81” dia. bore X 1.25” stroke. No chassis is included. 19 extra wheels included 2.75”, 2.44”, 1.58”, 1.31”, 1.28” & 1.12” Item is located in Louisville, KY area for viewing or pick up. $650.00 plus shipping. 
Check out the link for photos ===> http://www.discoverlivesteam.com/discoverforsale/forsale/1_nalley/index.htm


----------



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Old Boy on 15 Apr 2012 10:26 AM 
It should be pointed out (mostly for Americans) that 2.5" Gauge and Gauge 3 are two different pursuits. Note I said pursuits, not gauges or scales. Gauge 3 is considered purely "scenic", not passenger hauling, and primarily electric while 2.5" Gauge is generally thought of as the "model engineered" version of Ga3 encompassing live steam and passenger hauling and many builders go ahead and bump the scale to 1/2". Within it's small (but active and growing) ranks Society members have done a great deal of research, preservation, and publication on locomotive modeling. One of the best recent models of the Stirling Single, and a book to detail it's design and construction, is in 2.5"ga by a 2.5" Gauge Society member. It is true that The Gauge 3 Society claim a scenic background to many (but not all) of thier garden railways, but I think that a great many members would not be happy to be referred to as primarily electric.

Some folk do have electric locos but if Old Boy goes to a G3 get -together he will find it predominately live steam.
Many public exhibitions however do show small G3 electric layouts for convenience although more recently the latest live steam Brittania has been in steam on rollers. The order book shows about thirty of these 
already reserved
The Saddle tank picture and video shows what can be achived in G3, even with small engines.

http://youtu.be/farU6Mt0ev8


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Any Gauge 3 tracks in western North America??

vr Bob


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Bob 

Pete Comley of Sunset valley RR is probably the best to answer that. Send him an email or call him.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim Hadden who is in Utah has a G1/G3 dual gauge track.


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

You might check with Dave Queener at Cumberland Engineering to see who he knows has layouts. 
http://tinyurl.com/6lksfvy 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## smeghead (Apr 6, 2012)

Are your plans for sale, I've been looking for plans for the L.N.E.R "Green Arrow". I have a particular interest in this locomotive, my Granddad used to drive it.
Thanks , Peter


----------

