# Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac



## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Hi guys, i am new to this forum and after getting my first model train when i was 9 witch was a 1954 Lionel model 2065 i have decided to enter in the hobby seriously and move up to large scale and i really am liking the usa trains sd70mac,but i dont know what kind of transformer i need and im hearing i need an decoder? and that this train is Dc or something? i dont know what this means im used to the transformer that my lionel 2065 has.

Is this train low voltage? or does it run off of 120? etc i dont know what transformer i need and all this other good stuff if anyone could help i would be greatfull i need all info on these types of trains i understand these are more serious than the model i have so i just need help,i build rc helicopters and planes so i have experience in the rc hobby


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Well. To start out with. Only buy equipment that is NMRA standard. If you don't buy NMRA standard equipment, you will be stuck with useing a single mfgrs product forever. Just ask the guys that bought MTH, and the Aristo system. I use QSI because it plays well with others, and sounds good. You can use a QSI on DC, with batteries, on DCC, and with a G, or Air wire system. It is by far the most verstile decoder, motor controler available. In addition, you can upgrade the sounds for free anytime you want too. QSI is like the Futaba of DCC. If you want to know more you can go to QSIsolutions.com 

OK, I've said my bit. I'll give up the soap box for some else. 

Loco Lee


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Go to the power and battery section and read what others are saying. 

I personally use track power and the Aristo 27mhz system as does most of my club members. 

I am slowly converting to DCC with a Zimo system. This is still track power. 

Also, I use brass track code 332. 

There are main choices to make, battery, track power, or even live steam. Of course you have already selected an electric engine needing DC power and can be converted to DCC, or battery R/C operation, or just stay with track power.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Hello and Welcome to Large Scale. 
We all started with track power as that's the way they come, depending on the Manufacturer they run on DC from 12 to 24 volts. I don't own any USA trains. but from what I've read they need aprox 18 volts due to multiple motors and if you ar a 'Go Fast' kind of guy you'll want more voltage on the top end... 

Now then what are your future plans? A simple loop or more complex? Indoor or outdoor? One train or several? 
My reason for asking is to see what you will need down the road and getting stuff now that you can build on. 

Unlike your 3 rail Lionel, 2 rail power runs into shorts when a reverse loop or turning wye (a triangle for a 3 point reverse) is added..... so to solve that many converted to on board battery and R/C control. 
Another method many use is DCC (digital command control), it uses track power, but sends signals over the rails to an onboard decoder to control the loco. Constant track voltage to the decoder which then regulates the power to the motor (and the bells and whistles). DCC is the only NMRA standard, to my knowledge, but just because one person working for a DCC company says to use that standard, don't be swayed. There are other ways of doing it. I'm not saying that DCC and QSI aren't good, they are, but may be more than you want or need. 

The current issue of Garden Railways has an article on Power control, you should read it to get an idea of what you'll want. Once you decide then there will be plenty of help here to get you up and running. 

John


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Matrixman, 

Welcome to MLS. 
hearing i need an decoder? and that this train is Dc or something? 
Large Scale stuff is 2-rail DC, like the smaller scales but with more voltage as we pull heavier trains - as mentioned above. 

Decoders are only needed if you add DCC control to your trains. That's a whole other subject. 

Only buy equipment that is NMRA standard 
_Gee, now there's an inflammatory statement if ever I heard one. . Check out the 35 pages of vitriol on the proposed coupler standard(s)._ 

I don't think NMRA has produced any standards in Large Scale that are relevant. Most manufacturers have to include a switch, as the DC 2-rail track power for our trains is backwards from the NMRA standard for 12VDC trains.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Welcome! That USAT loco will run on DC but not AC. You want a power pack that can deliver up to 20-24 volts, but what you really need to look for is the amperage. You want to be able to deliver at least I would say three amps, especially if you are pulling long trains and have grades. Any DC controller from the smaller scales will work but will probably be prone to shutdowns because it does not deliver enough amperage. I ended up with a ten amp power supply on mine, and it's been excellent, more than adequate for my needs. Some people want even more than that, but that's for running really long trains of lighted passenger cars. No need to start out that big unless you know you want to end up there 

That loco does not need a decoder unless you want to go to some method of individual remote control, like DCC or battery power. Out of the box it will run just fine on straight DC to the rail.

Here's power supply/throttle that would work:

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200507578 


This one also, probably better for long term:

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200302748 

Or this:

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200806220 

I'd go with the MRC throttle myself, the second one


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

I just want to say WELCOME TO MLS.

There is a heck of a lot of information in these pages.

I suggest you read through some of the other departments. Rolling stock, Tracks trestles and road bed, power forums, Remote control forums, and the battery forum, also the Traditional power forum.

The information in these forums may seem over whelming.

Please feel free to ASK ANY QUESTION it may have been asked several times but we will be glad to answer again and again. We all started out just like you and we all want you to have the best layout possible.

JJ


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Welcome to MLS Matrix! 

I'd recommend a power supply or power pack that can deliver around 24 volts and at least 5 amps - more amps if you want to run more than one loco at a time. I have a 23v 10amp Aristo-Craft Crest power supply. The USA trains are power hungry so I'd caution on the higher amp. I've also heard good things about Bridgewerks, Meanwell and MRC. You can get a power "supply" or a power "pack". When I say power pack those are the ones that usually have a throttle control built in, I think most of the MRC are like that. If it says power supply you will most likely also need a power controller, otherwise your loco would run on full throttle constantly  I bought a power supply and used a power controller to get me going but I knew I was planning on moving to DCC and thus could reuse the power supply. 

Here's a link to an MRC 10amp 22v power pack (built in controller):  MRC 

Since you are an RC guy, another option is going with battery power. If you think you'd like to go that route you can check out or post questions on the Battery forum.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

You've got lots of questions, I've got lots of answers but you'll spend some serious time wading through it all. 

see http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

I'll add a comment on another "angle". 

You have chosen one of the largest locos out there. If you want to run this size loco, you need to consider the minimum radius/diameter of your layout carefully, you should stay at 10' diameter minimum, that is a BIG loco, and does not take kindly to tight curves. 

Do you have the room to do this? Most people start out with a smaller loco, but that's no big deal, this will put your layout plans into perspective in a hurry. 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Welcome, to MLS and DITTO on what LocoLee said above. QSI/G-wire and I don't care what anybody else says is the most cost effective, versatile, and simple system to use! Unless you are a wiring Guru and understand electrical wiring I would go with Aristo engines and not the USA as they have not come out with the Plug N PLay yet but supposedly it is on the horizon!! Easy Peasey install with Aristo engines and you are up and running in less than an hour no wiring just plug n play. Check out my you tube page all are running on QSI/G-wire, and there is a comparison between QSI/ and Phoenix if you go with USA engines there is wiring involved then you are locked into using Phoenix and OEM Airwire to have sound and control instead of the easey peasey of QSI!! 

http://www.youtube.com/7485jerry

http://www.livestream.com/crazytrainguyschannel/


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

If you wire the QSI into a USAT just like people wired in a trackside TE, you can do that install in 30 minutes. (I have done it in 5, but did not bolt down the decoder). 

Track power: 
Track pickups >>> QSI track inputs 

QSI motor outputs >>> track pickup inputs to stock USAT board. 


Battery power: 
Battery >>> QSI track inputs 
QSI motor outputs >>> track pickup inputs to stock USAT board. 

You can do this without any soldering, using the All Electronics connectors and the QSI screw terminal board (Magnum setup). 

Done a ton of them this way, you don't get the constant lighting, but very easy install. 

You can then convert the lighting at your leisure, since you would probably rewire the lights and swap to LEDs. 


Just another option 

Regards, Greg


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Well im an electrician of 11 years so the wiring should be fine..lol..but i heard allot of things here, im hearing something that sounds like i can run the train off a battery pack that mounts inside the train???? like one of my electric powerd rc planes? and other things so i cant just get a transformer like my lionel and hook it to the tracks,put the loco on it and move the lever to increase or decrease power?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Yep, battery power is an option. 

Yes you can hook an AC transformer to the tracks, and move the lever to increase or decrease power. As an added bonus, when you apply AC to your DC loco, you should be treated to a nice display of smoke, and maybe even fireworks. 

All other scales except Lionel (and I guess pre-war stuff) run on DC... like Z, N, HO, etc. 

Regards, Greg


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

well i would not mix the two voltages...lol..why would i be told that if i add dc to my ac loco ill be treated to fireworks?...lol


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

also what size electric motors due these g scale trains run on? like a 550 for my rc monster truck? i would think one of those would be ideal in each truck as these are made for pulling


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Posted By Totalwrecker on 07 Apr 2010 07:12 AM 
Hello and Welcome to Large Scale. 
We all started with track power as that's the way they come, depending on the Manufacturer they run on DC from 12 to 24 volts. I don't own any USA trains. but from what I've read they need aprox 18 volts due to multiple motors and if you ar a 'Go Fast' kind of guy you'll want more voltage on the top end... 

John 

A slightly different point of view. If one wants to stay for the entire layout with track power, versus battery power, versus Digital (DCC) that influences many decissions during the construction phase. Upfront I decided I don't want to run wires from a central point to all my switches and other power needs. So analog was out of the question and so wouldhave been battery power, unless you want to put a battery next to every switch. So I choose DCC the only common bus for power and control. Would I ever decide to go analog (this is only theoratical







) then I owuld have to dig a lot of stuff up and run wires to all my users. So no I didn't start out with "standard" track power but right away with DCC).


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Posted By matrixman on 07 Apr 2010 11:05 AM 
Well im an electrician of 11 years so the wiring should be fine..lol..but i heard allot of things here, im hearing something that sounds like i can run the train off a battery pack that mounts inside the train???? like one of my electric powerd rc planes? and other things so i cant just get a transformer like my lionel and hook it to the tracks,put the loco on it and move the lever to increase or decrease power? 

Welcome to MLS.
Not only can you use a battery pack mounted inside the locomotive for power, you can also use the 2.4 GHz R/C equipment you use to fly with, to actually control the locos.
A low cost (as in US$45) 6 channel TX & RX rig married to a suitable ESC will provide speed and direction control, with lighting outputs and four sound trigger controls. All for a lot less money than the fancy DCC - R/C rigs.

Read up before spending big.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

By the way, if you are new to this part of the hobby MatrixMan... Tony's stuff is bulletproof and well checked out. 

And he has distributors in the states, you do not have to go to Australia to get it! 

Regards, Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

like one of my electric powerd rc planes?
Trains are just like planes when it comes to r/c - though we use different frequencies to avoid conflicts. In fact, we often use the new 2.4Ghz radios for our live steam locomotives. And we don't have a weight problem of trying to lift off with a lot of batteries.









Trains work on a battery pack connected to a 'throttle' which drives the motor. The 'throttle' is driven from an ordinary r/c receiver - you may have some lying around. We tend to add a sound system because we can - there's usually room for a decent speaker. Here's a sample - battery powered, RCS throttle and Sierra sound:


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Posted By TonyWalsham on 07 Apr 2010 04:42 PM 
Posted By matrixman on 07 Apr 2010 11:05 AM 
Well im an electrician of 11 years so the wiring should be fine..lol..but i heard allot of things here, im hearing something that sounds like i can run the train off a battery pack that mounts inside the train???? like one of my electric powerd rc planes? and other things so i cant just get a transformer like my lionel and hook it to the tracks,put the loco on it and move the lever to increase or decrease power? 

Welcome to MLS.
Not only can you use a battery pack mounted inside the locomotive for power, you can also use the 2.4 GHz R/C equipment you use to fly with, to actually control the locos.
A low cost (as in US$45) 6 channel TX & RX rig married to a suitable ESC will provide speed and direction control, with lighting outputs and four sound trigger controls. All for a lot less money than the fancy DCC - R/C rigs.

Read up before spending big.
ok so you make the radio control systems for these trains? ok is the battery supplied also that fits in the train? i am buying a usa trains sd70mac due you have a complete system for this train,that will work without modding? because i dont want to cut or drill on the loco


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Take a look at the post before yours - you just missed me...


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

ok buy where would i be able to fit a standard nicad battery like that in my train? i looked at the batterys from your store and those are the batteries i use for my rc monster trucks, also i thought these trains needed 18 volts? one battery is about 7.2 volts, i dont think that will feed the train and a sound system and the heating element for the smoke stack


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

where would i be able to fit a standard nicad battery like that in my train 
OK. Time to quit the 'Beginners' forum and head for 'r/c-battery operations' in the Power & Sound Forums... 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/afv/topicsview/aff/35/Default.aspx  

But before you go and start asking the guys who read those posts . . 

1. Some of us use NiCads, but most have moved on to NiMH. No memory effect and higher charge. (You'll find lots of discussion of Lithium Ion too...) 

2. We use 2 batteries in series. I have 2 x 7.2V in a Bachmann loco (which runs well on less than 18V,) 2 x 9.6V in an Aristo pacific loco (which runs slow on only 19.2V max,) and 2 x 10.8V [paint gun battery packs] in the tender of the loco in that video posted at the end of page 2. They (may) need 2 charger jacks and a smart charger.

3. I get mine from Radio Shack or online from the big battery sites. 

4. We tend not to run the smoke units too often. Messy and they die if you don't feed them?


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Congratulations. Battery is definitely the way to go.

Since I like mainline steam, I put the batteries in the tender. Lots of space there.


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Posted By Pete Thornton on 07 Apr 2010 05:31 PM 
where would i be able to fit a standard nicad battery like that in my train 
OK. Time to quit the 'Beginners' forum and head for 'r/c-battery operations' in the Power & Sound Forums... 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/afv/topicsview/aff/35/Default.aspx  

But before you go and start asking the guys who read those posts . . 

1. Some of us use NiCads, but most have moved on to NiMH. No memory effect and higher charge. (You'll find lots of discussion of Lithium Ion too...) 

2. We use 2 batteries in series. I have 2 x 7.2V in a Bachmann loco (which runs well on less than 18V,) 2 x 9.6V in an Aristo pacific loco (which runs slow on only 19.2V max,) and 2 x 10.8V [paint gun battery packs] in the tender of the loco in that video posted at the end of page 2. They (may) need 2 charger jacks and a smart charger.

3. I get mine from Radio Shack or online from the big battery sites. 

4. We tend not to run the smoke units too often. Messy and they die if you don't feed them? my problem is, if i just went and read through posts about battery use and etc...i would not know what the person was reffering too, if it would work in my machine...etc thats why i like to ask guys who already not read the posts but know what they are talking about and what im talking about for sure...im am completley new to this and for me anyway simply reading posts about battery use and dcc control or decoders etc means nothing, i have no idea if this info applies too me or what not


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

.....which is why you need to do some research before deciding what exactly it is you want to do.


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Posted By TonyWalsham on 07 Apr 2010 05:56 PM 
.....which is why you need to do some research before deciding what exactly it is you want to do. 
well i understand about powering the train by battery, or transformer i just dont know what kind,and if by battery where to put the battery's


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

This is a beginners forum and serves a very useful purpose as a starting point for learning about Large Scale trains. 
If battery power does pique your interest you need to go to the Battery R/C forum and ask the questions there. 
I guarantee you will discover all the information you need to know. 
The options for battery power extend beyond the scope of simplistic answers available here.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Tony's advice is good. Battery packs usually go in the loco, if there's room, or in a trailing freight car, if not. You can configure packs in all sorts of ways. Some people remove the whole pack to charge it, and swap in a new pack as needed--that works well with steam engine tenders. Not sure how it'd work in the USAT loco you're looking at. You'd probably want a charging plug installed somewhere under the loco, because I imagine swapping packs in and out would be hard with that model. 

Track vs battery can sometimes get a little heated around here. Each side has its partisans and each approach has advantages and disadvantages. George Schreyer's site is really an excellent resource for starting out.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

if i just went and read through posts about battery use and etc...i would not know what the person was reffering too, if it would work in my machine... 
matrixman, 

We all have to learn sometime. Go ask if anyone has already done what you want (in the r/c-battery forum) and how they did it. 

Here's a presentation of the basics I did for a Seminar a few years ago. 

http://gold.mylargescale.com/petethornton/ECLSTS-seminar/Battery & Radio Control2.pdf  

(You may have to insert capitals or i may have to rename it. Moderator?) 


here's one solution: (no - doesn't work - somebody changed it (see next post)

Pete's ECLSTS Seminar



[/b]


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Hmmm problem with posting pics and URLs 

Let's try this link to my seminar - seems to work:
http://tinyurl.com/yl93hem


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Pete, I had the same problem yesterday with posting a url/link in here something has changed or happened I thought it might be what the link was that I was trying to insert but now I see it wasn't. Anybody sent Shad an email on it yet or contacted???? Hey Shad if yer a looking see what you think is going on????????????????? Regal 

p.s. I have sent Shad an email notifying him of it. Regal


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Fixed the link.... Pete, problem was partially embedded spaces in your PDF file... normally I never put in spaces, since they are often expanded to a hex code, and then something else does not know %20 is hex for a space and takes the characters literally.... *http://gold.mylargescale.com/peteth...ntrol2.pdf*



Posted By Pete Thornton on 08 Apr 2010 08:06 AM


if i just went and read through posts about battery use and etc...i would not know what the person was reffering too, if it would work in my machine... 


matrixman, 



We all have to learn sometime. Go ask if anyone has already done what you want (in the r/c-battery forum) and how they did it. 



Here's a presentation of the basics I did for a Seminar a few years ago. 



http://gold.mylargescale.com/petethornton/ECLSTS-seminar/Battery & Radio Control2.pdf  



(You may have to insert capitals or i may have to rename it. Moderator?) 

here's one solution: (no - doesn't work - somebody changed it (see next post)



Pete's ECLSTS Seminar


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

problem was partially embedded spaces in your PDF file... 
Actually, the problem is the lower-case filter on this website? The embedded spaces work fine and are still in there. 

(That is a very old file and got uploaded before I disciplined myself to the internet standard of "all-lower-case and no special characters" in file names. I just didn't have time or inclination to go back and clean it up - especially this morning after wasting 1/2 hr trying to get any link to work.)

So MLS isn't case sensitive in the gold member area?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

I put spaces back into the link and removed the % escape characters... I could not get the link to work with the % characters embedded. I did not agonize over trying to analyze it, my motivation was to give a clickable link, which I believe was what you wanted in the first place, i.e. JUST TRYING TO BE HELPFUL. 

That's at least my experience on this one, and I DID manage to post the link. 

In the HTML code for the link, since it is encapsulated in the HTML "brackets" or quotes, actual embedded spaces appear to work, that's my perception, which may be incorrect. 

Regards, Greg


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

ok i think im going to start with track power so could anyone tell me what transformer i need for this train? i know i could look but i dont know what works for this specific loco and im hearing some stuff about needing a power converter and a speed control? like i said im used to my lionel transformer its a 1033 and i just plug it in and it has the whistle control and speed control as well as direction control. 

The control for these trains seems different in that it looks like a i have to buy a power supply as one member stated at least 3-5 amps as these models are power hungry,and i need to hook that up to a speed controll or something that has the direction controll as well as the whistle and lights and other stuff? i looked around and saw no specific set up for my machine and just dont want to blow anything up, forgive me if i sound stupid but thats just how i learn i need to be assured by an experienced member before i just read some info and think it applies to me


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

You should get about 3 amps, the loco will run a little over 2.

I would recommend buying something much larger, and make it a one-time investment.

A low cost and great "transformer" is the MRC "Power G" with 10 amps and a nice big lever and fan cooled.

Now, these locos do not come with sound, and the world of sound is a whole 'nother discussion.

There are many ways to go with sound, even in ordinary DC track power.










Regards, Greg


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

thank you Greg, thats all i wanted so i can get that control? and the only difference between my lionel transformer and these locos are that the lionel has the transformer built in and with this new type of train im getting i need the speed and direction control and a seperate tranformer to power it? in witch a 3 to++ amp power supply would be best? and witch power supply would you recomend or are they all compatible with all speed and direction controlls such as the one you just showed me?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

The lionel is most likely AC, this is DC. It also has fixed DC outputs for accessories. Also it's nice and heavy duty. 

This is a 10 amp DC power supply AND the "throttle" to vary the voltage to control the train all in one. Nothing else to buy. 

You can see a nice big heavy duty toggle switch at the bottom for direction control. The Orange light is power on, and the red one is overload. 

All you need is a wire between this transformer (big knurled terminals on the back) , and the track. 

Regards, Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

i.e. JUST TRYING TO BE HELPFUL. 
Thank you. It is appreciated, usually. 

My tinyurl worked too, I think. When I used the HTML mode I still didn't get the right link - it converted it to lower case, which is why I'm puzzled how you got it to work. But let's take this problem elsewhere [see Forum Bugs argument I started yesterday!].


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

perfect Greg you made it so much easier, its even 10 amps..i was told though to go with i think its called a bridge works transformer because the dcc voltage has filtering or something and the Mrc units dont and the filtering is safer for the train engines? and also how is a sound system controlled? when i add one? as i turn the knob and increase the power does the sound system just start automatic? like the diesel engine will sound like its starting up and then turn to an idle? and then make the sound of the brake release? or are these extra controlls and can this Mrc control you showed me handle and operate with the sound system?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Hmm... 

I'm trying to untangle what you said. Bridgewerks is a high quality, and expensive product. You have to make your decision, but just check prices and features. If you are just beginning and don't know exactly where you are going (battery, R/C, DCC, DCS) then I would not recommend a significant investment in a DC supply. 

Check the prices and features. A Bridgewerks of the same power is about double the price. (yes Chuck, better quality) 

The official word from Bridgewerks is "we stay away from DCC" quoted several times here on the forum. (Don't even start there Chuck) 

I would not worry about all this stuff yet, there's a lot to learn. 

I'd start a new thread in the beginners forum on something "beginners sound questions"... that is a BIG topic. 

Short answers, you need to consider how you want to power your locos to really make a final decision. 

You can get virtually ALL different ways of "triggering" sounds... QSI and several others will do it with the reversing switch, cheap, easy, no extra hardware needed.... some sound units can be triggered by magnets in the track, some by a R/C system over the air, some by signals on the track... 

This is going to get overwhelming real quick. 

Most run on DC, and speed up and slow down the motor automatically... it's the "on demand" things like bell and whistle/horn that you need to consider. 

If you get a QSI, a quick flip back and forth of the direction switch will start or stop the bell. Flipping it while moving will start or stop the horn. (if it is already moving, it knows not to jam into reverse, you gotta stop first) 

That's the cheapest way to add remote control sounds (bell and horn only) to your DC track loco. 

There's a huge number of options, and the best way to look at the future is to think about where you what to go, remote control, how many locos, etc. 

This will get overwhelming, like I said, but keep asking questions. 

Regards, Greg


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## matrixman (Apr 7, 2010)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

thanks but i have allready decided as mentioned in a previous post, im going track power im building a garden rail road and an indoor one i will run pvc pipes under the ground to run my low voltage wire like i would to for an electrical service at someones home being an electrician, and dock the transformer in the house or just attach it to where ever im going to run my trains indoors or out doors at the moment im looking at some bridgeworks units but $500++ is a little crazy right now although i usually spend about $1500 to completley assemble an rc air plane i will eventually buy one, but for right now im digging the MRC power G transformer Greg showed me $160 is a nice price, im just a bit scared about it not filtering the DCC output as i heard the Bridgeworks models due and if the MRC model not doing that can damage my train


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

thanks but i have allready decided as mentioned in a previous post, im going track power im building a garden rail road and an indoor one i will run pvc pipes under the ground to run my low voltage wire like i would to for an electrical service at someones home being an electrician, and dock the transformer in the house or just attach it to where ever im going to run my trains indoors or out doors at the moment im looking at some bridgeworks units but $500++ is a little crazy right now although i usually spend about $1500 to completley assemble an rc air plane i will eventually buy one, but for right now im digging the MRC power G transformer Greg showed me $160 is a nice price, im just a bit scared about it not filtering the DCC output as i heard the Bridgeworks models due and if the MRC model not doing that can damage my train 

matrixman 

[gentle hint: You will notice above that Greg puts his answers one to a line. It is much easier to read that way. Your total lack of punctuation is very difficult to read, and puts off some people from trying to help.] 

Many outdoor layouts have a 'power stand' which is portable, usually stored inside and plugs in to the layout when in use. 

Filtered DC isn't going to make much difference to a DC motor. DC is DC and filtering is only helpful if you have fancy electronics - and most of them filter the input to prevent any damage.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Matrixman, it may surprise you to know that there is basically only one system that "needs" filtered DC, it's MTH. 

Many people run a type of pulse power to unmodified locos, and ALL "on board" decoders like DCC and Airwire use a type of pulse power to the motors.


The output from the MRC is DC and it's really not a question of filtered vs. unfiltered.... it's a degree of filtering. In laboratory power supplies, a large amount of filtering is important. 


So, don't even worry about it. LGB used to make "noise" about pulse power, but all recent locomotives from them can be fitted with an on-board DCC decoder, which uses, guess what, a form of pulse power.

The technical term is PWM Pulse Width Modulation (Aristo calls theirs PWC but it's the same thing).

So for track power you are fine. For DCC you are fine. (and I have run MTH DCS on that same transformer).


I applaud you on your decision to use conduit, I did, and boy was it worth it. If I need to add a wire or change one, it's possible, no ground to dig up, no concerns about getting underneath an new concrete walkway, etc.

Be sure to use "sweeps" to bring the track up, nice smooth bends make it very easy. Also, since now your wire is protected, you can use very inexpensive household wire, either stranded or solid, and it's much cheaper than the landscape wire. I run long trains so I needed 10 gauge. That would have been impossible with landscape wire (never seen over 12 gauge).


I also run air lines and control lines for my electronics in the conduit. I basically ringed the layout with conduit, and had it in sections, ending in a 90 degree sweep to the surface, and then start another section.

This way I could pull wire a section at a time by myself easily. The household wire has a much thinner insulation, so more wires fit into it.

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Matrixman. 

Greg is correct, but, he did not mention that, whilst most on board electronics can handle PWM, it is not a good idea to power any DCC decoder (such as QSI) equipped loco with PWM. The DCC decoder thinks it is a type of DCC signal and can get "very confused". 
As far as I am aware the MRC power pack/controller is pretty smooth DC anyway.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Hi im a new member and am new to large scale trains please help with infp on first purchase of usa trains sd70mac*

Thanks Tony, an important point, because some "trackside" power supplies put out pulse power. 

Fine for all unmodified locos, not good when feeding to a locomotive with a decoder. 

I run my QSI locos from that specific power pack and have no issues, and have several friends who have also had no problems. That's one of the reasons I recommend that power pack, simple, lots of current, fan cooled, and no other frills. 

Regards, Greg


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