# Varmit Control on the T&LBRR



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Living in the country hills, we often have to deal with varmit control. While my old Crosman 660 pellet rifle has taken out many gophers, and the like, it is really just a "child's toy."
It was time to treat myself to an "adult toy." This RWS Compact 34 Pro, made in West Germany, is just the ticket. It fires .177 pellets at up to 1,000 fps with a single **** of the barrel. The RWS 34 series are the most accurate and best pellet rifles you can get for under $300, period. At $247, with a lifetime warrentee, this is a far better deal than an LGB engine of comparable price, and no longer made in Germany.


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## Burl (Jan 2, 2008)

Wish you'd posted this before I bought my last Crosman. They just aren't what they used to be.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Benjamin_Discovery_Rifle_Pump/1534

That's what i am using ,22 cal pump it up to 2000 # The Rifle is very "quiet " if a "lead dust collector" is mounted!
Buy the way ,Wallyworld has occasionally a special $ 350.00 

Airgun website: AIR Guns GTA under PCP rifles !


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Sometimes the alternatives to Varmint Control (I've done my share of that) can be more fun. 





















I like my old Crossman. Its been years since I used it but every once in awhile it comes out and surprisingly it always still has a charge in it.

Jerry


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Jerry McColgan said:


> Sometimes the alternatives to Varmint Control (I've done my share of that) can be more fun.
> Jerry


Jerry, is your layout indoors or out? I'm imagining a locomotive going into a tunnel and several raccoons coming out the other end.

Here in central Kansas, all we seem to have are bunnies. Very, very fat bunnies. And if I "controlled" one and my daughters found out about it, I'd never live it down


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

We have a problem with Coyotes in our area, we also have raccoon's and opossums, big ones! Our cats just stare at the ***** and opossums, they run from the Coyotes. I have an old Daisy Red Ryder BB gun I'd like used to use for the coyotes, as they are a serious issue with the pets in our area, but my options are very limited. Being in a suburban neighborhood I can't just go plinking off shots at them without risking hitting someones car or window.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

riderdan said:


> Jerry, is your layout indoors or out? I'm imagining a locomotive going into a tunnel and several raccoons coming out the other end.


My layouts are indoors (crawl space) and outside. 

Outside the raccoons have broken numerous buildings (like a tornado passing through). Still I've had up to a dozen at a time (sometimes fighting with the deer over the corn I put out) and the fun of watching them makes up for the occasional damage they do.

A hinged door keeps most of the varmints outside but I have had one large black snake (king?) in the crawl space. I "controlled" him but never told the wife or we would be moving tomorrow. What my wife does not (and never will) know is that years ago a DirecTV guy found a 6 foot snake skin in our attic.

I no longer hunt snakes but we do have various poisonous ones here in Arkansas. I used to enjoy hunting them (legally) with an M-16 and Thompson years ago.

Occasionally I discover a Copperhead around the layout. Sometimes they are fast and sometimes I am able to contribute to their gene pool.

I once reached under the hood of the Expedition to unlatch it and touched an unidentified snake. I managed to get a camera but before I could return with a 12 gauge he was gone back into the engine compartment.










The thin tail suggests a Cottonmouth.

Part of the fun of living in rural Arkansas. 

Jerry


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

I share your pain Jerry, so far I have not encountered any snakes but all buildings on the railway will be sealed....
I live in Australia, I do respect snakes....lol


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## adir tom (Dec 4, 2011)

Uses guys got it easy. I live in the Adirondacks and in a no hunt zone. Thus many habitualized deer and bear. All the neighbors feed them. lose 2-3 buildings a year to being stompled. deer get their hoofs caught in the track and rip uo many feet trying to shake it off. I have tried high voltage shock but they appear to be untrainable. Don't even suggest the petrified egg and garlic. Just gravey on the plants.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Michael W said:


> I share your pain Jerry, so far I have not encountered any snakes but all buildings on the railway will be sealed....
> I live in Australia, I do respect snakes....lol


We used to have a neighbor who suggested we were lying when a friend & I told her how many snakes we had killed - until I knocked on her door the next day to show her a 30 gallon plastic sack filled with dead snakes (she never got over that) 

It's actually not that bad in that we used to go out of our way to find snakes to kill and that friend had an amazing talent for it. Probably 95% were non-poisonous. I've only come close to being bitten twice - both times by Cottonmouths. Copperheads are far more common but they usually run if given a chance.

I think that in Australia your snakes are a lot worse than ours.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

If our varmits could kill, you can bet that I would have an air rifle that used compressed gas for multiple shots. They have air rifles with 12 shot clips with 70 shots available before changing/reloading the gas cylinder. 

No way do I want to have to re-**** and re-load before some deadly varmit is on my azz.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

adir tom said:


> Uses guys got it easy. I live in the Adirondacks and in a no hunt zone. Thus many habitualized deer and bear. All the neighbors feed them. lose 2-3 buildings a year to being stompled. deer get their hoofs caught in the track and rip uo many feet trying to shake it off. I have tried high voltage shock but they appear to be untrainable. Don't even suggest the petrified egg and garlic. Just gravey on the plants.


I guess I am just lucky. Many others have posted about problems with deer etc. In my case I do everything I can to attract the critters.








For whatever reasons (my layouts are mostly above ground which helps) I have had very little damage to the layouts other than damage to the Pola and Piko buildings. This might be in part because none of my track is actually on the dirt and the deer might be afraid of the gaps in the composite decking the layout is laid on.

Years ago my wife was amazed when we arrived home, spotted some deer departing and I whistled to them - they stopped and returned. I used to be able to sit on the steps of the caboose and talk to the deer that were about 50 feet away.

In Arkansas there is an over abundance of deer (very different from back when I moved to Arkansas and started hunting them).








I no longer do it but I used to be able to watch the deer and see how various ones grew up over a few years. When the game cameras had collected over 20,000 photos I turned them off and put them away but I still enjoy seeing the deer from day to day.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*This year's crop of Varmints*



Last year it was the Fox Squirrel "Gilmore" (I called him "Rat Face" and he would come running when I called him). He would let me pick him up and play with him. He liked to be handled by Marilyn and myself.








This year it is the Grey Squirrels "Mickey" and "Minnie." They are much wilder but Mickey has started coming to me (somewhat).

Yesterday Mickey came up and started chewing on my shoe.

















They now live in the tree next to the main outside layout and will probably cause me to start running trains outside again.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd, I have been looking for a multi-shot compressed gas pellet rifle, but I need one that is QUIET... I can find single shot quiet ones, and multi shot loud ones, but not both attributes in the same rifle. I would be fine with .177 caliber... believe it or not I am shooting tree branches.

If you have any ideas, please let me know.

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I haven't done research on the PCP guns.

Nice accurate ones start at ~$1K and you either need to pump them up with a "special" bicycle pump (goes to ~3,500 psi), an air compressor (4,500 psi), or third party (e.g., scuba shop). These can take up to 4,500 psi. A compressor goes to $2K+. The CARB gets a fill-up fee for 3rd party fills.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the comeback Todd, yes, I would spend the $$ for one, and I think a scuba tank as a "fill point" works too.

I think the key is to keep the projectile subsonic. Perhaps that means a .22 pellet would work better.

Thanks, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Definitely.

There is also more accuracy keeping it subsonic unless it can retain it's "supersonicy" all the way to the target. When the sonic boom overtakes the pellet, it creates an instability in the projectile. Most air guns won't retain a fast enough speed unless the target is very close.

Best accuracy is at ~900 ft/sec muzzle velocity and the heavier the projectile at this speed, the better as it retains more momentum and is less suseptable to cross wind currents. Also creates a bigger "splat!"


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, I need a couple of hundred feet... I guess that locks me into the larger caliber?

Greg


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

Gave me a heart attack. Had to replace turnout and bent section of track...........Jim


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I would install motion sensors with water spray!


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

The problem with deer is that you do not want to spook them. STAMPEDE. I have seen them run into trees and fall over stumps.............Jim


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I used to have a motion detector that triggered cameras (now they are built in).

Perhaps what is needed to chase the deer off might be a motion detector that triggers an alarm (burglar alarm).

Deer are easily spooked but also curious. I think it is when they become used to something that they lose their fear of it. Perhaps I am lucky in that the height of my layouts and their proximity to the house or caboose might be what is making them keep their distance and not damage anything. 

I've had (my) dogs, (my) cats, raccoons (not mine) wind, sunlight and leaf blowers damage buildings but never in over 20+ years has there been any damage caused by deer. 

Now, after all these years I have given up. As the glue fails or the buildings are damaged I give them away, ignore the damage or, if too severe, throw them away.

In the end the greatest destructor of my buildings has been ME. I have always used leaf blowers to blow the debris away from the buildings. Before, I was unwilling to get on my hands and knees to clean up around the buildings. Now I am unable to do so. Eventually all of the outside buildings will probably be gone but at least the inside buildings are as nice as the day I assembled them. 

I started out with cheap bird houses to create my "towns." as they aged and fell apart I replaced them with Model Power, Pola, Piko and Aristo buildings. Surprisingly the most durable buildings turned out to be Aristo-Craft.

As we age our priorities change.

I continue to be impressed by those with great garden railroads but it was never my destiny to have one of those.

Jerry


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=12.0


Hi Greg!
Look at this forum under "cal.25 Marauder PCP Air Rifle " this Rifle will suit your needs,with a "TKO" its "mouse fart " quiet!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*Minnie comes to visit*


















Darn vermin/varmints.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, that .25 caliber with the TKO brake looks like the ticket!

Did not know about the TKO brake, but the .25 caliber packs a punch and runs at lower velocity.

Thanks,

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I wouldn't do 0.25. 

Ammo is much harder to come by, limited in scope, and $$$. A cheap 0.177 pellet costs $0.01. A quality 0.177 pellet costs $0.03. A quality 0.22 costs $0.10. A quality 0.25 costs ??? and is only available from ???

Do 0.22 and save yourself a lot of ... You can still get those nasty, dirty, noisy, invasive parrots.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> Darn vermin/varmints.



Minnie's "friends" made a nest in the local power vault, chewed through the wires, and took out the power to 1/10th of Cowan Heights (over 50 homes, mine included) for a day. Her friends only moved into the neighborhood a couple years ago, so it's not a case of who was here first.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd, I need to shoot at longer ranges, and to have the impact I want, the .177 and .22 require higher velocities, which means more noise.

The cost of pellets are inconsequential, 5 bucks a tin of them. The air rifle is about $550 though... but reading all the reviews this will do the job.

I am concerned that the .25 may violate some rules where the .177 and the .22 are in a different "class".... It's hard to get any definitive information here.

The main criteria is the ability to keep it quiet, and lower velocity seems to be the ticket, thus gravitating to a larger caliber to make up for the lower velocity makes sense.

Still researching...

Greg

oh, we have a "ranch" in Fallbrook, and the squirrels have created dozens of burrows and caused a lot of damage.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

toddalin said:


> Minnie's "friends" made a nest in the local power vault, chewed through the wires, and took out the power to 1/10th of Cowan Heights (over 50 homes, mine included) for a day. Her friends only moved into the neighborhood a couple years ago, so it's not a case of who was here first.


Hi Todd,

I don't doubt that. I used to sell squirrel guards to utility companies. The squirrels frequently short out transformers when they bridge the gap over the insulators. My son-in-law is a lineman for the local power company. Our daughter, his wife, is the one who initially raised Gilmore, Mickey and Minnie.

I used to trade venison for beef (I like beef more). On the other hand, squirrel tastes delicious.

A couple of days ago I saw Mickey apparently chewing on one of my Aristocraft ties under the stainless track. A friend (and others) call them "tree rats" which is pretty accurate.

Every morning I come out to find more leaves and little branches cluttering the layout where they have fallen from Mickey and Minnie's effort at building their nest.

I kill their cousins (mice) regularly and there are a few new ones that I need to put the traps out for. I don't like to kill anything but sometimes it is necessary.

Toy trains are entertaining. Sometimes wildlife can be more entertaining - as long as their entertainment value exceeds the problems or health risks they represent.

Where we live, if they ever became a problem, a 12 gauge would quickly end the problem. I use a 12 gauge to trim the branches of the tree whenever they threaten the layout. 

Here I have steel targets at 150 yards, 75 yards and in the driveway (for Concealed Carry & Personal Protection courses).

12 gauge, .223, .44 Magnum, 30-06, 460 WM (most gone now), it doesn't matter. My Varminter is a 22.250 Remington 40X-BR. I love rural Arkansas.

Forget the pop-guns. Sell your house, move to Arkansas and use the profits to pay for your guns & ammo. 

There must be benefits to living in California. I don't know. I've never been there. I just know that, like Chicago, if I ever moved there I would have to leave my toys behind. 

Cheers,

Jerry


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## backyardRR (Aug 14, 2012)

Around here, in the NYC suburbs, squirrels seem to be the most prevalent critter around. They have pretty much left my RR alone (fingers crossed).
In this area their major predator is the Honda! Dumb as dirt! I have seen them run across the street well in front of me only to dart back in my path
as I came closer. And another one bites the dust!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Dunno about how dumb Hondas are, but I suspect it has a lot to do with the age of the main controller circuitry.

But since this is a sort of discussion of squirrels I want to know other's thoughts about something...

Many times I have witnessed a squirrel being squished by a car and each time it seemed that the squirrel attempted to jump INTO the car's tire. The squirrel starts into the street, then sees a car approaching and sometimes it will turn to go back where it came from, but will then again pause, turn and continue across the street. It will then pause in the middle of the car's path.

At that point, if the squirrel had just sat still, the car would have straddled the squirrel and it would not have been any the worse for wear. But, instead of just waiting, it will leap right AT the tire... sometimes hitting it from the side and only its head goes under the tire and other times it will leap at the tread area and the whole body gets crushed.

Not pleasant to witness, but it always causes me to wonder just what a squirrel "sees"... What is its vision like? Does it perceive the black tire as a "hole" to jump into for safety from the monster bearing down on it?


As for those that are willing to physically handle a squirrel... I know they are soft and seemingly "cuddly" but beware the teeth and claws when it decides that cuddling is not what it wants to do. (Fleas and toilet habits not-with-standing.)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't know why there needs to be a dig at California out of the blue, but be assured it is a really nice place to live, otherwise land would be as cheap as Arkansas, and salaries would be as low also. 

Also, you would not have to leave your trains behind, we do indeed have outdoor/garden railways here.

Back to the topic, now I need a place that is reputable to purchase the rifle from, Pyramid Air (sp?) seems to get top marks.

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Todd, I need to shoot at longer ranges, and to have the impact I want, the .177 and .22 require higher velocities, which means more noise.
> 
> The cost of pellets are inconsequential, 5 bucks a tin of them. The air rifle is about $550 though... but reading all the reviews this will do the job.
> 
> ...


You can attain a lower velocity by using a heavier pellet. If you go to the straightshooters.com web site, they test the guns with various weight and make pellets and publish the results. You can see what pellet works best in your desired gun and keeps the velocity where you want it. 

For example, here's my gun (with beech stock):

http://www.straightshooters.com/rws-model-34-pro-compact-air-rifle-.177-beech-w-scope.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Speaking of stocks, wood vs. plastic? 

The gun I was looking at had some comments about the "luan" wood and finish. I see your stock is finished with an epoxy coating, clearly more durable.

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I've got a friend heavy into guns and sometimes we go shooting.

I asked about the stock, and the only advantage to a wood stock is aesthetic. The plastic stock is stronger, less prone to warp or chip, and has a more secure feel. Typically, they are also cheaper.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Funny, on the Benjamin it's more for the synthetic stock than the "Luan" one. weird.

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Did you know that the current PCP Bennies in that price range suffer from Crosman quality? While they are considered as accurate, there could also be issues with gun-to-gun variation and the PCP system..., and they suffer from weak muzzle velocities relative to other, better PCP guns. That's probably what makes them so quiet.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Funny, on the Benjamin it's more for the synthetic stock than the "Luan" one. weird.
> 
> Greg


Not if it is the Sheridan Maurader. Wood is $20 more.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Whups!

Not Sheridan, but Benjamin Maurader PCP, 8 shot repeater.

Benjamin Maurauder, looks like both are same price, but the synthetic stock has an adjustable piece.. maybe that makes the plastic cost the same as the wood.

Greg


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=81539.0

Talk to him, he can advise you what to do with your airgun ,some Dealer's will tear your gun down,recrown the barrel,remove burrs ,install a harder hammer spring(increased velocity high end or fine tune to have consistent velocity ) there are add on's you can purchase from various venders,like rotary magazine/double air cylinder ,full shroud to reduce report, after the dealer has gone through your gun there will be another happy customer (no fear where the gun was made)


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Funny, on the Benjamin it's more for the synthetic stock than the "Luan" one. weird.
> 
> Greg


Maybe you should first read this. The quiet Bennie is the 0.177 and the 0.25 is as loud as a spring gun. This says that you will _not be doing backyard shooting in the City with that gun_.

And, don't expect to get more than about 3 clips (24 shots) before refill. Groupings could also be better at 25 yards.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2015/05/gen-2-25-caliber-benjamin-marauder-part-1/

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Semper Vaporo said:


> As for those that are willing to physically handle a squirrel... I know they are soft and seemingly "cuddly" but beware the teeth and claws when it decides that cuddling is not what it wants to do. (Fleas and toilet habits not-with-standing.)


Everything I read about squirrels says they are terrible pets and I would agree with that. They are not naturally human friendly but "Rat Face" was the exception. Perhaps it was because we found him only days old and he "grew up" with us.









Gilmore (Rat Face) broke all the norms. He was like a puppy & would run from the tree to me whenever I called him and I could play with him (he preferred to play somewhat rough). I always handled him with a towel to protect my hands from his claws. He never once bit me or Marilyn but he clearly was my pet until the day he disappeared. We still keep a lookout for him.

Mickey & Minnie have been the exact opposite. They have been wild since the day we got them and would "attempt" to bite every chance they got (but never actually bit anyone). I swore I would never want another squirrel (they are a LOT of work with feedings worse than a newborn baby).

Once they were out and free I never expected to see either of them again but they have taken up residence in the tree above the layout and every day they become more and more friendly.

I even put up a ramp from the tree to the layout (see in photo) to make it a highway to the layout for them.

These are not pets. They are totally wild squirrels that happen to trust us and we like them. Even if they like you their claws are incredibly sharp and they will claw the heck out of you. If you happen to be the tree they are climbing I don't think they have any sort of ability to retract their claws so when they jump on you to get a nut, you KNOW its going to hurt - and of course there is the risk of infection from the claws.








As to their behavior on the roads, they are frequently run over after you think you are going to miss them. It is very common to find them run over on the roads. Fox Squirrels tend to be closer to the roads and Grey Squirrels tend to favor the woods.

I think the reason is simple - Squirrels are simply NUTS! They are extremely nervous and erratic. Perhaps that is where the word squirrely comes from.

Minnie jumped down on the deck about 2 feet from our cat. I the cat was not sick I think Minnie would have been the cat's dinner - regardless of anything we said or did.








Squirrels are wild critters that belong in the woods. We are just pleased that they come to visit.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I don't know why there needs to be a dig at California out of the blue, but be assured it is a really nice place to live, otherwise land would be as cheap as Arkansas, and salaries would be as low also.
> 
> Greg


How could you possibly imagine a "dig" at California? We would love to travel to and enjoy the many things we would enjoy doing in California. San Diego was (I believe) the home of LGB of America. The Queen Mary show was at the top of places we wanted to go but never could.

Comparing Arkansas to California is like comparing Apples & Oranges. 

Arkansas is a rural state that is heavily forested where hunting is a favorite sport. Real estate is far less expensive as would be expected.

California is a much more industrialized state with a far greater population. Orange County to me means Los Angeles. I was born, raised and worked in Chicago. Marilyn was born in Wales, was a student nurse in London when I met her, we were married in England but neither of us have any desire to live (again) in a highly populated city like Chicago, London or Los Angeles. 

My point was simple. We have a better life style living in Arkansas than we could afford to have in LA, Chicago or London. My brother was an assistant Principal of a High School in the Bronx. I brought him to Arkansas to die. He hated Arkansas, I hated NYC. Who cares?

If I thought I said anything offensive to any Californians I would apologize but I cannot imagine anything offensive in anything I said. If anyone wants to say anything negative about Arkansas I doubt anyone here would give it a thought. After 35+ years I'm still a **** Yankee to most Arkansans anyway.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry Jerry, I took this:
"Forget the pop-guns. Sell your house, move to Arkansas and use the profits to pay for your guns & ammo. 

There must be benefits to living in California. I don't know. I've never been there. I just know that, like Chicago, if I ever moved there I would have to leave my toys behind. " 

as negative... my mistake.....

Todd, thanks for more links... I know the .177 is quieter, gotta say "doh"... are you telling me this because I am not following your recommendation for the .177 over the .25? I know the bigger gun is louder.

Anyway it is quiet for what it is, and with a TKO brake, and maybe a full shroud it will work. The .177 does not pack enough punch for what I need to do.

Thanks for the extra links... I did watch several videos on the .25 and see that certain pellets do not do well, I saw one sighting in that used 3 or 4 different brands of pellets.

And "lotsa", thanks for the tips on the things to do... looks like I will need someone to work it over to really make it nice, the trigger is one thing I know will need tuning... possibly an extended air cylinder too... pumping that hand pump does not look like fun.

Well, a new project, I guess it will be easy to have $1k all in once it is worked over.

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Sorry Jerry, I took this:
> "Forget the pop-guns. Sell your house, move to Arkansas and use the profits to pay for your guns & ammo.
> 
> There must be benefits to living in California. I don't know. I've never been there. I just know that, like Chicago, if I ever moved there I would have to leave my toys behind. "
> ...



I'm suggesting that if you want that gun, get it in 0.22. It will be more accurate, quieter, you will get more shots on a charge, and it still packs the punch.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Sorry Jerry, I took this:
> "Forget the pop-guns. Sell your house, move to Arkansas and use the profits to pay for your guns & ammo.
> 
> There must be benefits to living in California. I don't know. I've never been there. I just know that, like Chicago, if I ever moved there I would have to leave my toys behind. "
> ...


 What I was referring to was that years ago I used to own a fully automatic M-16 and 1928 Thompson that I used to shoot snakes with at local minnow farms (varmint control). I was a licensed ammunition manufacturer and used the sales of my reloads to pay for shooting the M-16 and Thompson. I was also a licensed FFL dealer (not Class III).

To get a Class III license I had to have a signed approval/recommendation by my local chief law-enforcement officer (sheriff) and pass an FBI background check by the Arkansas State Police. 

I would have to leave my toys (guns) behind because it is unlikely the chief law enforcement officer of Los Angeles would be happy with me shooting even a semi-auto Match AR-15 in my back yard.

Different worlds, different lifestyles.

I own few guns these days. Most were stolen years ago and I used the insurance to pay for my first garden trains (less risk of theft).

I know several people who moved to Arkansas from California and were very pleased with the homes they could buy in Arkansas with the money they got from their homes in California.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Todd, I'll look at the .22 also, since it does have a larger magazine.

I'm shooting branches off a tree at maybe 100 yards. Don't ask me why ha ha.

(It's not on anyone's private property or near a house, nothing sinister here)

This is why I wanted the most punch, the .177 just embeds itself in the bark.

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Thanks Todd, I'll look at the .22 also, since it does have a larger magazine.
> 
> I'm shooting branches off a tree at maybe 100 yards. Don't ask me why ha ha.
> 
> ...



Greg, consider that on a gun like that, the major difference between the caliber is just the bore size in the barrel.

On that gun the specs may show more punch for the 0.25 because they pressure it up to 3,500 psi whereas with the smaller calibers, they only pressure it up to 3,000 psi.

You can certainly get a 0.22 pellet at the same shooting weight as the 0.25 pellet (unless you go to the extremes) and if you pressure that up to 3,500 psi, they will have about the same foot-pound at the muzzle.

But the smaller pellet is available in more styles, some of which, coupled with the smaller size, result in better aerodynamics, and down range velocity leading to better accuracy.

Personally, I would not buy any gun made in China. And if I were looking at a PCP, I would be looking at one that has the interchangeable canisters. Air Arms and AirForce are the brands I'd be looking at. Remember that any pressurized cylinder must/should be hydrostatically tested on a regular basis. If your "gun" is the tank, can/do they do this? And if so, who? 

This is the kind of thing I would be looking at. Uber cool and accurate (groupings of 1" or less at 75 yards)! And these things are adjustable up to about 65 foot-pounds at a 3,000 psi fill (they attained 54 foot pounds in their test) . (The Maurader does about 19 foot-pounds on a 3,000 psi fill, so what does that tell you?)

(And I hope you can get rid of those **** parrots.)









http://www.straightshooters.com/airforce-condor-.22-shrouded-with-spin-loc-air-tank-black.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, trying to find one that is relatively quiet is tough.

What I have found so far is biggest factor is muzzle velocity.

Next is the mechanism, the spring ones are loud, the nitro piston ones a little quieter, and the PCP the quietest.

What parrots? I'm not sure I understand the reference, although I did live somewhere that had a flock of wild parrots (mostly escaped pets), but that was years ago.

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

The escaped Amazonian Green parrots are taking over Orange County and are a very invasive species. They use our area as a corridor between Orange and Irvine/Tustin, and have established territory in Peter's Canyon, just below us. They are reported to be as far south as San Diego. They are loud and dirty and if any land on my property...


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Holy cow Todd, that's amazing, I had no idea. 

We don't have parrot issues here, but I'd like to have a little something for plinking & etc. I looked into a couple air gun sites mentioned earlier, but was pretty bewildered by the terms. If I want a pump-action, multiple shot device (some sort of magazine, I don't want to reload with each shot), what's the terminology for that?


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Just as you note, it is called a magazine or a clip.

I don't think there is a pump action multiple shot pellet rifle.

The bottom end multiple shot pellet rifle is probably the Crosman 1077 that uses CO2 cartridges. 

There are pump action multishot rifles, but they are combination pellet/BB guns, so...

Again, I wouldn't buy a Chinese gun, nor would I buy a gun that uses CO2 cartridges. I certainly wouldn't want Chinese metalurgy containing 3,500 psi next to my head. 

CO2 guns don't have the power or capacity, and the cartridges add up, especially if you rarely shoot and they leak out.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

toddalin said:


> There are pump action multishot rifles, but they are combination pellet/BB guns, so...


I agree about the cartridges, I'd rather keep supplies to a minimum. What's the downside to a combination pellet/BB gun?


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Accuracy and power.

If you are just "plinking" it may be no big deal. But if you are "controlling" varmits, it is more "humane" to take them out with one well placed shot to the head. There is little that is more heart-wrenching than trying to "finish off" a wounded animal of any kind, especially if you have to take time to reload and pump up the gun.

I don't relish killing, but recognize the value of a 3 cent pellet over the damage that they can/do to the property, and nothing I "take out" is threatened or endangered in any way and most people around here would love to get rid of them. I also have rabbits on my lot, but they do no harm so I let them be.


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