# Getting ore down a severe slope



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

In the hopes of someday modeling it, there's a certain prototype situation that I've been studying some photos and a map of, and I thought I'd pass it along. 

The situation is this. The main line is up on a ridge, and the mill -- running on water power -- is far down in a steep ravine. The ore is on the main line, and needs to get down to the mill. Now, one method is an ore slide, which just sends all the material down into a bin. But in this case, the speed of the falling ore would break up the bin, and there wasn't room for a super long slide apparently.

So here's what they did. BTW, this was on the V&T, sending ore down to the Bacon and other mills in Silver City. 










Working from the top, there appear to be these features:

1. The trestle for the spur from the main line.

2. Ore bins, directly beneath the track. These allowed the cars to dump and the train to leave quickly.

3. A small-gauge transfer track beneath the ore bins, parallel to the V&T track. There might be an ore car at the lower left end of this. Looks like it was a gravity line, most likely under control of a cable. Probably a hoist house at the far (right) end.

4. Another transfer track, perpendicular to the prior, with ore cars receiving from the prior ones via direct dumping (no bins; far left). At the right end looks like another (tall) ore car, and maybe also at the left end. This looks like a two-track system, maybe funicular, with the right hand end curling up (to perhaps prevent a runaway, if the cable broke). 

5. Lastly, the chute feeding ore into the Bacon. It's at the right, behind the smoke.

The far slide, by the way, was for cord wood, hauled in by the train and used as fuel by the mill.

I love all the vertical 3D drama in this setup, must have been pretty astounding to see working. Don't know if I'll ever model it, but it would be fun. 


Cliff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff: sounds great, if only I could see it. Your picture/link isn't working for me (Firefox). Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Chuck, thanks for letting me know. I re-did the pic, is it showing up now?


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm not Chuck, but yes it is. Cool picture!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Great, thanks for letting me know HH.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, it's a cool picture. A lot to look at.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ye...luv it Cliff...real modeling challenge ya got there... 

Lots of persperation,,,, 

mean - inspiration my boy!! 

D


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

In other places they used airial trams, the full buckets down lifted the empties up. 
Make your inclines 2 tracks wide and use above method to move ore cars 

So that's where your bridge to nowhere goes! The ore dock? 

Cool Pic. 

John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 12 Dec 2013 04:24 PM 
Make your inclines 2 tracks wide and use above method to move ore cars 
Yes, that's what I meant by "funicular." 

I'm thinking now that they probably used that method on both legs of the small-gauge transfer system in the photo, because the bents look very wide (plenty wide for a pair of tracks).


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

The real problem comes from trying to get ore to move ... 

Uphill.... 

Hehe... 

D


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By CliffyJ on 12 Dec 2013 04:31 PM 
Posted By Totalwrecker on 12 Dec 2013 04:24 PM 
Make your inclines 2 tracks wide and use above method to move ore cars 
Yes, that's what I meant by "funicular." 

I'm thinking now that they probably used that method on both legs of the small-gauge transfer system in the photo, because the bents look very wide (plenty wide for a pair of tracks). 
What you expect me to read every word? 
Mea culpa


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That's very true Dirk. I don't recall, off hand, a surface system that moved ore uphill.

As for bringing things up though, that's where the steam engines came in. The Comstock mines saw some of the largest, because the shafts exceeded 2,000 feet, a few 3,000 feet. Check out these numbers. This is a pump; but the pump engines sometimes were quite larger than the ore car hoists, because they had to move more mass from the same depths in a given period of time.











A good chunk of the Sierra Nevada's trees, on the eastern side, were consumed by engines such as these. 

I'd love to model this beast... 

Cliff


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Look out 3D ... 

Cliffy's coming thru!!!!!!!! 

A 100" piston...... 

Flywheel way too big for a steam loco..... 

Like the old mine buildings.....! 

D


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 12 Dec 2013 05:40 PM 
Posted By CliffyJ on 12 Dec 2013 04:31 PM 
Posted By Totalwrecker on 12 Dec 2013 04:24 PM 
Make your inclines 2 tracks wide and use above method to move ore cars 
Yes, that's what I meant by "funicular." 

I'm thinking now that they probably used that method on both legs of the small-gauge transfer system in the photo, because the bents look very wide (plenty wide for a pair of tracks). 
What you expect me to read every word? 
Mea culpa










I was agreeing with you, John, that's all. You were spot-on.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

What's my problem... 
I use glasses to every word... 

Dont wanna miss a thing.... 

Hehe..esp my typing .... whew sometimes... 

D


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

See wad I mean..... 

I use glasses to "read" every word... 

Can't see either... 

Ha.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

A little footnote to the prior pic. In an earlier version of this setup, there wasn't the up-swooping end of the lowest trestle. And you can see that it was added on to a trestle that kept going down at the same slope. Here's that earlier trestle, from a stereograph.










The main mill building was there, though its second floor hadn't been added (replacing the 2 left dormers). And its ore chute is there. But, the feeding trestle keeps going, most likely to the neighbor mill on the right. 

Though I can't prove it, my guess is that they learned the hard way that a runaway car ramp was needed at the low end. So if one wanted to model the system, a nice big hole in the roof of the right hand mill might be in order!

Cliff


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Cliffy.. 

Allow me to insert another possibility for the ski ramp... 

Looking at the two photos...I see a raised sloping chute into the main building... 
But with the large second story addition... the chute needed to make deliveries to the new upper floor... 
Thus the change or modification to the original structure... 

Sleep on it....! 

Dirk


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff:


Do you have any maps that show that track layout in plan view? It would sure help me try to figure out what is happening.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Dirk, yep, that chute has been moved upward, and points down into that 2nd floor addition. So you're right, that could be the explanation.

Chuck, sadly, I don't have any detailed map, just this from 1881. The V&T trackage was pulled up not long after this (around the turn of the century I think), so the area doesn't appear on later, more detailed maps.










The red line is the V&T coming in from the south; magenta is the first transfer tram. This map was not always precise in defining mining details, so the "ore slide" label may or may not be specific to the last perpendicular leg to the Bacon. One the other hand, perhaps that leg began as a slide, but was upgraded to a tram.

Having said all that, the surveyors did a mind-blowing job.

BTW, this is one of your guys' maps: George Becker, USGS, from the "Geology of the Comstock Lode" atlas. 

Cliff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff:

Thanks I have a better feel for it now. Would have been neat to have seen it in operation.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That map shows two other slides to the west (left), apparently to serve customers other than the Bacon mill complex. That mill was owned by the "Big Four" (Mackay, Fair, et al), and they probably owned all that transfer tram business. But, there were plenty of smaller operators, and the V&T needed a means to serve them. Hence, those other slides, in my opinion at least.

Here they are, to the right, taken from up the ravine:










You can see the little ore bin, and perhaps even an ore car sitting over its chutes. If that is an ore car, that means that the ore slide was replaced with a tram. 

Cliff


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

How did they get the bullion out? 

John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 13 Dec 2013 04:48 PM 
How did they get the bullion out? 

John 
Hi John.
By wagon, using the (steep) main road along the valley (in the distance, in the above pic).


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Fascinating stuff!


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