# QSI wireless using track power



## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been looking at various wireless solutions over the past year because my old MRC 20 system was fine during the construction phase down here but now I want to actually run trains. I'm running indoors so I have no need for the complications and expenses arising from battery power. I just want to turn my track power up to 12 or 14 volts, or whatever, leave it there ,and run selected engines with a simple wireless throttle.

So after a lot of searching I found that I really seem to like the QSI controller the best. (Never used it, but it has the functions and labeling I can clearly understand - and so can any 1st time visitor) Also, I have Sierra Soundtraxx in 1/2 my engines and I'm prepared to pull all that out if QSI sound comes with each receiver/decoder anyway.

Just a quick question or three so I don't sound like a complete fool when I order stuff: 

I need two handhelds. That's a given. The layout isn't that big. But what components are needed for each engine? All of them USAT products. No Aristo anywhere. Somewhere I read that I also need some type thingy between my PS output and the track. Yes? No? What does that do? Is there a link to a simple USAT installation procedure? More important, do they offer diesel sounds? All I read about is 'chuff stuff.' If so, are there various 1st and 2nd generation GMD sounds etc?

Sorry if all this has been asked before but I got lost in the acronyms and the bafflegab.

Dave


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

QSI is supposed to be devloping an easy plug and play board for USAT locos. Greg has seen the prototype. When will it appear? That's a familiar question, with the usual vague answer


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, track power with QSI and radio.... you run constant DC to the track, you add the $100 AirWire receiver to the QSI and use the AirWire handhelds (and soon the NCE will have one too). 

You will need the adapter board ($17) for each decoder that gives you screw terminals to connect to the QSI since the USAT does not have the Aristo socket. 

Do you have any "reverse loops?" 

Let me tell you that I would NOT do it this way. First reverse loops will be a pain. Second, the extra $100 per loco for the wireless Gwire add-on will quickly add up so that a traditional DCC system will be cheaper after a few locos, and easier to run. Both systems are DCC. Going "traditional" DCC with wireless controllers will give you more options, less overall cost, and better operation, and easier programming/customization. 

Don't worry about the sounds, there are TONS of things you can change yourself, the program from QSI does that, yes there are 1st gen, 2nd gen, traditional notching, settable 2nd transition sounds, dual prime mover setup, chuff from BEMF or chuff switches, and on and on... 

Anyway, if you are going track power I'd strongly recommend traditional DCC. 

Regards, Greg


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I love battery & R/C but, in your case with an indoor layout, I agree with Greg. It will be cheaper in the long run to go with straight DCC. You would use the QSI decoder all by itself. That would give you individual engine control with sound in the engine.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Now I think I'm getting answers.


The only true DCC system I'm familiar with is the Digitrax stuff down at our local museum/public display and I hate it with an unstoppable, undying passion so I'm interested in starting out with a modern controller that was actually designed to run trains. I've played with the Airwire handheld and it's far superior to that HO thing but my completely uneducated preference would be for the NCE GWire Cab simply based on the user friendly controls and display I've seen on line and in print.

I can use 9 or 10 engines over time. That's all I have and all I'll ever need. So yes, cost is an issue but I want to put out one sum, however large, and do it all at once. A month long project for example like my Kadee conversion program. 

Dealer says, "Staying with track power? You'll need two of these, ten of these, ten of those and some simple tools you probably already have. That will be $xxxx.xx and here's the block hook-up schematic."

Oh, if life were that simple!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The "normal" NCE wireless cab looks the same, and it is my personal preference on ease of use, no complicated menus, and large clear display. 

The Zimo and Massoth systems are more "techy", there's more information on the screen, the displays are smaller, so you get some tradeoffs. 

Life is that simple, though... if you have no reverse loops, then one pair of wires will run your entire layout. If you have reverse loops, it's still incredibly simple, insulate the reverse loop track section, and then buy a "autoreverser". It has an input and an output. Connect your 2 mainline rails to the input, and your 2 reverse loop rails to the output. It does everything else for you automatically. 

It is really that simple. 

It is amazing how few retailers really understand the products they sell, and there is also a lot of old wives tales about DCC. 

I brought a friend into DCC who had no background in it or electrical stuff. He's having a lot of fun with QSI and his NCE, and spending time running trains and having it "his way". 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I do exactly what you are suggesting, and it works great outside. I think it's significantly cheaper than conventional DCC untill you have more than, say 6-8 locos--then DCC is cheaper. As Greg said, DCC woud also be easier if you have reverse loops


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/16/2009 10:49 AM
The "normal" NCE wireless cab looks the same, and it is my personal preference on ease of use, no complicated menus, and large clear display. 

That's for me. Don't like going through menus to find something - even in my camera - but I understand the need during set up. NOT during normal use.

The Zimo and Massoth systems are more "techy", there's more information on the screen, the displays are smaller, so you get some tradeoffs. 

Right. Some people just like things to push. They'd buy a toaster with 33 settings for 'ON'.

Life is that simple, though... if you have no reverse loops, then one pair of wires will run your entire layout. If you have reverse loops, it's still incredibly simple, insulate the reverse loop track section, and then buy a "autoreverser". It has an input and an output. Connect your 2 mainline rails to the input, and your 2 reverse loop rails to the output. It does everything else for you automatically.

No loops. I turn trains on a Y behind the furnace. It's just a mater of keeping two green lights together. I can enter the Y when the main line is 'green' and the Y is green. I stop the train (engines only), switch main line polarity and the out going red light turns green. Now two green again, red behind me, and I'm heading in the other direction. Don't think that's an issue with DCC. 

It is really that simple. 

It is amazing how few retailers really understand the products they sell, and there is also a lot of old wives tales about DCC. 

I brought a friend into DCC who had no background in it or electrical stuff. He's having a lot of fun with QSI and his NCE, and spending time running trains and having it "his way". 

That's my plan too. As suggested, it will be QSI with the sound. I'll do up one or two engines so I can practice consists. Then follow with the works if it's as simple as they say. I want to find a place where it can be demonstrated. Does anyone make a 10 minute video? 
Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dave, your Wye is a "reverse loop".... you will need an autoreverser, and you can get rid of your switch for track polarity, the autoreverser will do that for you. Since you already have it electrically isolated, you basically will eliminate the electrical switch and put the autoreverser in it's place. (You can keep your current method, but autoreversers are so cheap, why not make it automatic?). 

The NCE is particularly easy with consists, since it has 4 dedicated consist buttons on the keyboard, no menus to go through. 

You press "add consist"... it will prompt you for a consist number... enter the number for your consist you want... from 1-127 is available. 
Then it will ask for the number of the lead engine... enter that... then it will ask you the direction of that loco, hit enter to leave it at forwards... hit the reverse button if it is running backwards. 
Then it will ask for the number of the last engine, do that just the same as above. 
Then it will ask for the number of a loco "in the middle"... either enter a loco number, or nothing and enter... 

Your consist is done... you can now select the consist number and run just like it was a single loco... 

You can also remove one loco from a consist, or add one, or delete the consist, all using the 4 dedicated consist buttons... you can see this group of buttons on a picture of the controller. 

It's really simple... 

Regards, Greg


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/16/2009 2:33 PM
Dave, your Wye is a "reverse loop".... you will need an autoreverser, and you can get rid of your switch for track polarity, the autoreverser will do that for you. Since you already have it electrically isolated, you basically will eliminate the electrical switch and put the autoreverser in it's place. (You can keep your current method, but autoreversers are so cheap, why not make it automatic?). 

*Good point.*

The NCE is particularly easy with consists, since it has 4 dedicated consist buttons on the keyboard, no menus to go through. 

You press "add consist"... it will prompt you for a consist number... enter the number for your consist you want... from 1-127 is available. 
Then it will ask for the number of the lead engine... enter that... then it will ask you the direction of that loco, hit enter to leave it at forwards... hit the reverse button if it is running backwards. 
Then it will ask for the number of the last engine, do that just the same as above. 
Then it will ask for the number of a loco "in the middle"... either enter a loco number, or nothing and enter... 

Your consist is done... you can now select the consist number and run just like it was a single loco... 

You can also remove one loco from a consist, or add one, or delete the consist, all using the 4 dedicated consist buttons... you can see this group of buttons on a picture of the controller. 

It's really simple... 

*Now you've got me interested. I'll do some more looking into that.*

*Your help has been great. I don't feel completely silly any more. Well, not about that anyway.*

Regards, Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I did a heck of a lot of reading of forums before I ever even posted, like 5 years... I read everything I could get my hands on, including the NCE and Digitrax Yahoo forums... after reading for several years, you can form an opinion without actually holding the stuff in your hands. It's a much harder way to go, but when 95% of all people agree about something, you can usually go to the bank with it. 

I also studied "human factors" in the use of software and hardware at a couple of small companies like Unisys, Uniden, and Hewlett Packard, specifically consumer products on making complex tasks easy, and not requiring manuals to do everything. 

There's a tradeoff between how many buttons, and how many "layers" of menus you have, given the same task. 

So you can have very few dedicated buttons, and lots of menus. 

Alternatively, you COULD have a button for every function. 

Too many buttons, and you cannot find the button and the keyboard is too big. 

Too few buttons, and you have too many "levels" of menus and cannot "find" things quickly or easily. 

It's a fine balance. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

There's also software out there that allows programming decoders from your computer via drop-down boxes, etc. DecodedPro[/b][/b] is freeware. This allows most programming without menus on a handheld or base station. It also calculates the correct CV value for you in those instances where a CV's value is a combination of binary digits depending upon what you wish to do. If you can use your computer to make selections on simple forms, you can program your decoders. Check it out.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I use that program, it's a nice piece of free software. 

As another point, although it certainly sounds like I am selling NCE, the NCE throttles allow you to change just one bit in a CV without calculating the equivalent decimal value. 

They also have a special CV mode for the unique QSI indexing system so you can go right to the cv, and the throttle will set the "index registers" for you, saves time... 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes ser re bub. It's the cats meow.







Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

When is that NCS throttle gong to be out? I asked at the QSI booth at York and got a shrug of the shoulders


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I assume you mean the special wireless throttle that will directly control an AirWire loco?

The "normal" NCE wireless throttle has been out some time, which is part of the standard track powered DCC syste,.


NCE is the manufacturer, and they have stated that QSI was very premature in showing the thottle. 

NCE never talks about anything until they have a firm date. So no one knows yet. I asked them about it and I got the answer above. 

You could email or call NCE. 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm guessing around the 12th of never. Boy and was that a good month!! hardly ever comes around anymore. LOL The Regal


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A number of manufacturers have gotten "burned" from announcing way in advance, NCE is not one of those companies. 

It will come out, but they are not huge like Kader... 

Regards, Greg


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