# Which Bridgework power supply to purchase?



## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

I have been looking at Bridgewerks power supplies and with so many options it gets confusing very fast. 

Can someone explain how to select a power supply? Is there something comparable to the Bridgewerks USA quality?

I am not understanding the Volts, Amps, and watts that are required by a layout. Do I need multiple throttles to run multiple lines of DCC? I am looking to run DCC using track power (QSI G-wire).

I will be running 2 lines with mostly USA and Aristocraft locos. How do I determine how much power is needed? Are there layout considerations that have to be taken into account?

Looking for a "power"ful education from this forum

Thanks again for the information. 

Dan


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Let Greg E. and or Nick S. give you the answer to your questions. Nick is the Bridgeworks guy swears by em!! And Greg E. may be able to give you a more economical idea of a power supply I believe he uses Meanwell, and one other I believe. Anyways they will chime in here i'm sure. I run QSI/G-wire in most of my things I have used the Ultima 10amp, and Aristo trackside unit to power up my track and then let the QSI/G-wire and T-9000, and or the NCE Gwire Procabe take over from there on my test track indoors I use a MRC 7000 Sound & Power to power up my track. Found out through Greg that the MRC is not powerful enough to run MTH Triplex though so I use the Ultima through the TIU unit to run the Triplex from MTH only!!! Regal


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Biridgewerks is the best pack i have found that works time and time again, Plus its Built in the USA. I use a Bridgewerks TDR 25 it handles ANYTHING i throw at it. including a 12 car USA trains lighted passenger set with 2 Aristo E-Bs with sound about the heavyest load you can get, 17AMPS all day for 2 days and the power pack didnt blink. There are other packs out there but NONE that can handle a good load all the time. you may be able to get away with a 15 amp bridgewerks but for 100.00 more go with the 25 amp unit. You will be able to run your whole layout with power to spare.


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

Can I run multiple rails (since I am using DCC) with the single transformer? From my understanding, you just need to put constant voltage on the rails and the DCC will take care of how it is being used.

Thanks for your comments... Dan


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

If your going with DCC I would probably suggest a meanwell power supply, there not as strong as bridgewerks but they will work with DCC. Others will chime in on these packs...........


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 25 Aug 2010 12:12 PM 
If your going with DCC I would probably suggest a meanwell power supply, there not as strong as bridgewerks .................

Actually the other way around - you can get Meanwell supplies that provide up to 125 amps at 24 volts, Bridgewerks doesn't get anywhere near that - not that it's necessary or even recommended for our trains.
http://www.meanwell.com/search/rsp-3000/default.htm

As a supply for DCC, a fixed output switching supply is definitely the way to go.
Bridgewerks is old linear technology - very heavy with the large transformer, also quite inefficient and not as well regulated as a switching power supply like Meanwell.

To chose the right supply, first make sure that your DCC system and boosters if any can run off a DC supply - the odd one requires AC, then pick a supply with the right voltage, peobably 24 volts and a current output a bit more than the maximum the DCC system (with boosters) can provide. You want the DCC system to be the limiting factor when it comes to power, not the DC supply.

Meanwell supplies are rated in Watts, so for a 24 volt 10 amp supply, you would look at the 240 Watt (24x10) series.

With Meanwell supplies you need to supply and wire up your own AC power cord (and the DC side as well of course, but you end up with an excellent power supply with an absolutely steady output voltage and full over current and over voltage protection.
I have used them for years - even with analogue layouts using either the Aristo TE as the controller or a home-brew one - and I have been very happy with the performance and reliability.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This is a simple question to answer, because Bridgeworks does not recommend the use of their supplies for DCC. I got this from the owner himself, and it's been posted in a number of places. 

Get a regulated DC supply. My meanwells run very well and are economical. The main intent of the Bridgeworks supply is highly filtered DC, analog, not switching supply, and a built in throttle. (besides rugged design and high quality components). 

Bridgeworks is not a regulated supply, meaning it is not a fixed voltage that is controlled. If you run DCC, you will have more consistent operation with a regulated supply, i.e. the voltage to the rails will remain consistent no matter what the load is. 

DCC does not need highly filtered DC (nor do most applications!!) and switching supplies are smaller, make less heat and cost less. Virtually all the power supplies in your consumer electronics are switching supplies. 

A regulated supply is also important if you are trying to run near the upper limits of input voltage, as I am. I want 24 volts to the rails (to compensate for the voltage loss in the decoders and some low geared locos), and my NCE system is limited to 27 volts at the input. If I did not have a regulated supply, for example a Bridgeworks, and set the throttle to 27 volts, then under load it could drop a number of volts and then I would no longer have 24 volts on the rails. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By krs on 25 Aug 2010 01:02 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 25 Aug 2010 12:12 PM 
If your going with DCC I would probably suggest a meanwell power supply, there not as strong as bridgewerks .................

Actually the other way around - you can get Meanwell supplies that provide up to 125 amps at 24 volts, Bridgewerks doesn't get anywhere near that - not that it's necessary or even recommended for our trains.
http://www.meanwell.com/search/rsp-3000/default.htm

As a supply for DCC, a fixed output switching supply is definitely the way to go.
Bridgewerks is old linear technology - very heavy with the large transformer, also quite inefficient and not as well regulated as a switching power supply like Meanwell.

To chose the right supply, first make sure that your DCC system and boosters if any can run off a DC supply - the odd one requires AC, then pick a supply with the right voltage, peobably 24 volts and a current output a bit more than the maximum the DCC system (with boosters) can provide. You want the DCC system to be the limiting factor when it comes to power, not the DC supply.

Meanwell supplies are rated in Watts, so for a 24 volt 10 amp supply, you would look at the 240 Watt (24x10) series.

With Meanwell supplies you need to supply and wire up your own AC power cord (and the DC side as well of course, but you end up with an excellent power supply with an absolutely steady output voltage and full over current and over voltage protection.
I have used them for years - even with analogue layouts using either the Aristo TE as the controller or a home-brew one - and I have been very happy with the performance and reliability.

Knut 


And what part of me reccommending a Meanwell supply for DCC didnt you understand ? And at 624.99 each you can keep them........... I will stick with what works day in and day out. Bridgewerks. Plus if you want over 10 amps of power to your DCC Layout you need a 1600.00 booster...What ? What? What? There are cheaper ones coming but i dont think they are out yet so runnining a 12 car lit passenger train with 2 engines with sound in origanal out of box condition you cant do cheaply under DCC for now any ways


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I took Nick's "not as strong" to refer to construction and quality of components... 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Aug 2010 02:21 PM 
I took Nick's "not as strong" to refer to construction and quality of components... 

Regards, Greg 

Correct Greg. OOOOOOOOOOOOO and happy birthday


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll try to answer this in layman's terms since I'm not an electrical engineer. Someone will correct me if I get it wrong. The classic analogy is to think of electricity like water in a pipe


Volts is like the speed at which the water is moving. Volts will tell you how fast you can go. 14 volts is plenty if your prototype is, say, narrow gage trains chugging slowly on a twisty mountain line. 24 volts is better if you want a crack passenger express at high speeds. 20 volts is fine on my layout: I've never wanted more

Amperage (amps) Amperage is the measure of current available--you might think of amperage as the diameter of the pipe the water moves through. Volts is the speed, amps is the carrying capacity. The higher the Amperage, the more stuff you can run. A heavily loaded locomotive with multiple motors, pulling a long train of lighted cars, will draw a lot of amps. A single motor loco pulling three cars will draw very few amps. Ten amps has been fine on my layout.

A conventional power supply will "sag" as the load increases. If one loco is running on your track, and you add a second, the first one will slow down. A "regulated" power supply will maintain a constant speed as the load on it increases.

I have a DCC layout, and I have been very happy with the Meanwell power supplies. I have a power supply that puts out 24 volts at 12 amps. I think the model number is S-320-24. There's an S-240-24 that will work well.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I think once again you guys need to ease up on the technical side and just tell the guy what will work. i think newbies will get scared off with all the long mumbo jumbo posts.............. Just my opionion let them get there feet wet 1st fellas.


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

Thank you everyone for the input. I went to the meanwell website and I am confused. I am not an electrical engineer and there are so many power supplies to choose from. (very confused look is on my face...) 

Can someone lead me to model numbers that would work?


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

The one Lownote uses is a good all around pack, we use 2 of them on a freinds display.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh Boy! Greg it's yer birthday??????????????????????

Well the girls and me will be a waitin fer ya at the bar tonight!!!










And we will tell the pole dancers to wait fer yer arrival too!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Hah LOL Regal


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

What's odd is that 8 out of 10 largescale manufacturers recommend using a Bridgewerks Power Supply with their products in conventional mode including but not limited to USA Trains, Bachmann, Phoenix, Heartland, LGB when Silver State had them, Piko, Rick Yoder, MTH etc. 

Only 2 and that was Accucraft & Aristo-Craft recmmended using a switching power supply. 

I'm not making this stuff up as I called everyone of these manufacturers and asked them.


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

OK - thanks for the info. I found the meanwell models referred to. 

Last question, how do they compare to the constant voltage Power-Mag's from Bridgework? They put out constant 18v at 30a or 24v at 25a. You can also go custom with anything in between these.

Has anyone had experience with these power supplies? How do they compare to the Meanwell power supplies?

Again - thanks for sharing your knowledge. Dan


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 25 Aug 2010 02:12 PM 

And what part of me reccommending a Meanwell supply for DCC didnt you understand ?
And at 624.99 each you can keep them........... I will stick with what works day in and day out. Bridgewerks. Plus if you want over 10 amps of power to your DCC Layout you need a 1600.00 booster...What ? What? What? There are cheaper ones coming but i dont think they are out yet so runnining a 12 car lit passenger train with 2 engines with sound in origanal out of box condition you cant do cheaply under DCC for now any ways.



Wow!
Touched a sensitive nerve, did I?
I just tried to emphasize that a switching supply was the way to go sonce your "recommendation" was rather lukewarm - 
"If your going with DCC I would *probably* suggest a meanwell power supply, there not as strong as bridgewerks *but they will work* with DCC. Others will chime in on these packs........... "

...and if by "strong" you meant the quality of the components, it would have been nice if you had said that - "strong" has no meaning when it comes to describing power supplies, but since you kept emphasizing in your earlier post how many amps the Bridgewerk supplies can deliver, I assumed that's what you were talking about - the quality of the components wasn't even part of the discussion until Greg brought it up.


Anyway - doesn't really matter, but what would interest me is where you get these large numbers of $624.99 and $1600 for a booster - the last 10 amp 24 volt Meanwell I bought was less than $100.- and a 10 amp booster is nowhere near $1600.-

That's enough current to run a 2 engine 12 car lit passenger train - mine with two RhB ebginers, 2 motors each, and 12 lit four axle passenger cars actually draws only slightly less than 5 amps going up a 3% incline.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 25 Aug 2010 03:08 PM 
What's odd is that 8 out of 10 largescale manufacturers recommend using a Bridgewerks Power Supply with their products in conventional mode including but not limited to USA Trains, Bachmann, Phoenix, Heartland, LGB when Silver State had them, Piko, Rick Yoder, MTH etc. 

Only 2 and that was Accucraft & Aristo-Craft recmmended using a switching power supply. 

I'm not making this stuff up as I called everyone of these manufacturers and asked them.


Chuck -

If you're talking "conventional mode", ie analog operation, there aren't that many choices available.
If you use a switching supply for those, you also need a throttle between the switching supply and the track to switch the polarity for direction and to adjust the voltage for speed. As far as I know, nobody makes a single integrated unit with a switching power supply and a throttle in one package - might be something Bridgewerks should look into.

When I run analog, I get much better performance with a switching supply and my own simple throttle than with any of the linear power packs on the market.
That's simply because a switching supply will maintain a steady output voltage as the current drawn by the train varies going up and down hill - with a linear supply that's not regulated the voltage will drop as more current is required going up an incline let's say and that lower voltage will slow down the train, so one has to constantly correct manually with the throttle.


Knut


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By krs on 25 Aug 2010 05:24 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 25 Aug 2010 02:12 PM








And what part of me reccommending a Meanwell supply for DCC didnt you understand ?
And at 624.99 each you can keep them........... I will stick with what works day in and day out. Bridgewerks. Plus if you want over 10 amps of power to your DCC Layout you need a 1600.00 booster...What ? What? What? There are cheaper ones coming but i dont think they are out yet so runnining a 12 car lit passenger train with 2 engines with sound in origanal out of box condition you cant do cheaply under DCC for now any ways.



Wow!
Touched a sensitive nerve, did I?
I just tried to emphasize that a switching supply was the way to go sonce your "recommendation" was rather lukewarm - 
"If your going with DCC I would *probably* suggest a meanwell power supply, there not as strong as bridgewerks *but they will work* with DCC. Others will chime in on these packs........... "

...and if by "strong" you meant the quality of the components, it would have been nice if you had said that - "strong" has no meaning when it comes to describing power supplies, but since you kept emphasizing in your earlier post how many amps the Bridgewerk supplies can deliver, I assumed that's what you were talking about - the quality of the components wasn't even part of the discussion until Greg brought it up.


Anyway - doesn't really matter, but what would interest me is where you get these large numbers of $624.99 and $1600 for a booster - the last 10 amp 24 volt Meanwell I bought was less than $100.- and a 10 amp booster is nowhere near $1600.-

That's enough current to run a 2 engine 12 car lit passenger train - mine with two RhB ebginers, 2 motors each, and 12 lit four axle passenger cars actually draws only slightly less than 5 amps going up a 3% incline. 



No you didnt touch a nerve, I just dont have much use for someone that really doesnt have a clue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 624.99 was for the power pack you were talkin about, 125 amps at 24 volts. as far as the booster is concerned a 15 amp booster which is barely enough to run 12 usa passenger cars and 2 locos $1600.00. 17 amps mine pulled at a show so maybe you should post your info when you get all your facts correct............ just a thought. I thought some of you DDC guys knew what you were talkin about. Greg and a few others seem to have all the correct info, Why not you. But anyways it is what it is. You never heard me or the OP say anything about LGB rite. The OP said he would be running USA and Aristo style stuff so i added the worse case senario. Just wanted to clear that up so you dont get mixed up again.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By dperrott on 25 Aug 2010 03:25 PM 
Has anyone had experience with these power supplies? How do they compare to the Meanwell power supplies?


I would be interested to hear about anyones experience with these large Bridgewerks supplies as well - maybe one gets a bit more detail about their electrical performance when a supply is purchased - the Bridgewerks web site provides essentially nothing in that regard.

For the Meanwell SE-600 which provides 25 amps at 24 volts, the basic info is as follows: (that equivalent iunfo for Bridgewerks would be nice)

Price: $115.- (first place I found with google)
Current Output: 25 amp rating

Ripple & Noise: 150 millivolt max.
Voltage Adjustment Range: 22 volts - 26.4 volts
Line and load regulation: +/- 0.5%
Input Voltage range: 90 - 132 VAC or 180 - 264 VAC
Efficiency: 87%
Overload Shutdown: 105 - 125% of rated power
UL Approved
MTBF 197000 hrs minimum
Warranty: 2 years 

Weight: less than 4.5 lbs. 


Info from this site:
http://wattsupply.com/s.nl/sc.30/category.2200/.f 


For the Bridgewerks BRW1520021 I found this:


Price: $510.- (At St. Aubins which is probably close to the lowest it sells for)
Current Output: 25 amp rating

Ripple & Noise: ??
Voltage Adjustment Range: ??
Line and load regulation: ??
Input Voltage range: ??
Efficiency: ??
Overload Shutdown: yes, but no details

UL Approved ??

MTBF ??
Warranty: 5 years 

Weight: 24 lbs. 

http://www.staubinonline.com/store/Bridgewerks.html


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 25 Aug 2010 05:44 PM 

No you didnt touch a nerve, I just dont have much use for someone that really doesnt have a clue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 624.99 was for the power pack you were talkin about, 125 amps at 24 volts. as far as the booster is concerned a 15 amp booster which is barely enough to run 12 usa passenger cars and 2 locos $1600.00. 17 amps mine pulled at a show so maybe you should post your info when you get all your facts correct............ just a thought. I thought some of you DDC guys knew what you were talkin about. Greg and a few others seem to have all the correct info, Why not you. But anyways it is what it is. You never heard me or the OP say anything about LGB rite. The OP said he would be running USA and Aristo style stuff so i added the worse case senario. Just wanted to clear that up so you dont get mixed up again.



No need to get personal!


This is getting too ridiculous - I'll pass.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

First any meanwell power supply that offers 10 amps and 20-24 volts will probably be just fine. 

How to compare Meanwell and Bridgewerks--well, I don't know too much about the bridgewerks line. They were too pricey for me. Small company, made in usa, responsive to customer issues. 

As Greg mentioned, they use a fundamentally different design. Bridgewerks uses a "traditional" design using big heavy transformers. The Meanwell devices are "digital switching devices" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_D_Amplifier). The long and the short of it is they are lighter and more efficient. In my other hobby, music, I'm a bass player. A traditional solid state bass amp that generated 350 watts (you don't need top worry about watts) would way 20 lbs. A digital switching amp of the same 350 watt output would way 3 lbs. I've been using digital switching bass amps for years, and so the Meanwell was familiar to me and I went with that.


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

OK - I am getting sold on the Meanwells but this leads to another question. 

The maximum voltage for the USA engines are 22v. How do you run the engine on a 24v system without blowing the electronics? 

Dan


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By dperrott on 25 Aug 2010 06:43 PM 
OK - I am getting sold on the Meanwells but this leads to another question. 

The maximum voltage for the USA engines are 22v. How do you run the engine on a 24v system without blowing the electronics? 

Dan 
Well - for one - there is an adjustment (potentiometer) on the supply that allows you to set the output voltage at a slightly different voltage than the nominal 24 volts.
For the Meanwell 24 volt supplies, that adjustment allows a worst case lower voltage of at least 22 volts - in practice a bit more.
The ones I have seen go to about 21.5 volts.

Also - if you use it to power a DCC system or booster, there will be a voltage drop across the system (or booster) of a volt or two depending on the specific DCC system you have.
So the voltage at the track will be reduced by that amount.

I'm a bit surprised that the USA Trains engines can't handle more than 22 volts, which specific ones? Many of the analog supplies will provide 24 volts or even slightly more.
The standard NMRA spec for DCC decoders is 27 volts minimum.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nick's numbers are right on one 15 amp booster, but that's a very expensive booster. 15 amps is about as high as you can go in DCC (or what I have found)... 10 amp boosters are cheap, though. 

If you run a long lighted passenger train, you can exceed the capacity of a DCC booster unless you change out the power hungry lamps to LEDs. So there's some technical truth there. 

But we should compare apples to apples. For the same capacity, a switching supply will always be cheaper, it makes less heat and can use less expensive components. 

I am surprised on the recommendations from the manufacturers on analog supplies, but I suspect that this is a conservative approach, they KNOW that the amount of motor heating will be less with an analog supply as opposed to a PWM throttle. 

Of course, where is the throttle in the whole picture? For example, It would be pretty stupid to buy a Bridgeworks "pure DC" supply and run it into an Aristo TE, which outputs PWM... and it's of no value to a DCC system for the reasons I have given (and confirmed by the manufacturer)... 

But, for pure analog operation, where else could you find a DC throttle with that level of current capacity? I also understand that the DCS crowd prefers Bridgeworks. DCS has this nice "passive" mode where the DCS signal is "added" to the track power, not running the entire amperage THROUGH the control unit (TIU). This gives DCS an advantage of virtually unlimited current on the rails. 

So, there's definitely applications where one is a better fit than the other. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By krs on 25 Aug 2010 06:17 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 25 Aug 2010 05:44 PM 

No you didnt touch a nerve, I just dont have much use for someone that really doesnt have a clue !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 624.99 was for the power pack you were talkin about, 125 amps at 24 volts. as far as the booster is concerned a 15 amp booster which is barely enough to run 12 usa passenger cars and 2 locos $1600.00. 17 amps mine pulled at a show so maybe you should post your info when you get all your facts correct............ just a thought. I thought some of you DDC guys knew what you were talkin about. Greg and a few others seem to have all the correct info, Why not you. But anyways it is what it is. You never heard me or the OP say anything about LGB rite. The OP said he would be running USA and Aristo style stuff so i added the worse case senario. Just wanted to clear that up so you dont get mixed up again.



No need to get personal!


This is getting too ridiculous - I'll pass. 


Dude you give up too easy...................

























Need to learn to read between the lines..........................


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan

First off I'm no DCC expert, however I believe that the following drawing is darn close to being correct as far as the basics of track powered DCC. The basic answer to your question is the voltage applied to the track doesn't go directly to the locomotive's electric motor but to the DCC decoder installed in the locomotive, and the decoder controls what voltage the motor sees.

If I'm out of line in what I've said I'm sure that Greg or someone else will correct it. Also there other ways that DCC can be accomplished, this is only the basics.









[*] The power supply provides power to the DCC Command Station.
[*] The DCC Command Station/Booster.
[*] May be incorporated into one cabinet or may be two separate units.
[*] Creates the power that is supplied to the track.
[*] The power to the track is a constant voltage.
[*] The power and the DCC signal is one and the same.
[/list][*] The DCC power/signal is picked-up from the track by the locomotive wheels/drivers.
[*] The locomotive wheels/drivers supply the DCC power/signal to DCC decoder in the locomotive.
[*] The DCC decoder.
[*] Controls the type of power and its strength going to the locomotives motor.
[*] Controls the type of power and its strength going to the accessory controls.
[/list][/list]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Small addition, to DCC people, the "command station" block above is actually 2 components. Some systems have both components in one box, and some have each component in one box. 

The first component is the command station... it connects to the throttles/cabs and it generates low level (usually 5 volt) DCC signals. 

The output of the command station goes to the booster (which has been already mentioned). The booster takes 2 inputs, the low level DCC signal and the output of a power supply, and "boosts" the DCC signal to higher voltage and current. 

In the picture below, the meanwell power supply is on the bottom, the silver box... The red and yellow wires coming up from the left side go to the top box, the booster. You can see "ten amp power" at the upper right corner of that box. (The red velcro hides "booster") 


the track outputs are the white and red wires, which feed the stack of banana plugs with power the tracks.

The box in the middle is the command station. The cabs and wireless base stations plug into the command station, there is a 3 way "telephone" tap in white plastic for them.

There is also a black cable between the command station and the booster. This lets the command station (and thus the throttles/cabs) turn the output power off, and reports booster status back to the command station and cabs)

On top is an AC on off switch for the meanwell, and the silver box and tan cable are a remote to the serial port to allow computer control. 













Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM I may have just learned something. I always run my USA locos at 24volts with no issues. Never knew they were rated at 22 volts even the Hudson................ The only manual i ever red was the GG-1 and it says it good to go up to 37 volts............... PS just letting all know that i do run my bridgewerks with my Aristo TE and have had no issues. But i do run the TE with the switch to Analog power only............


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, the QSI people love to have a high upper limit on voltage, the QSI decoders for the Aristo locos will go that high, as well as the Quantum Engineer, and our 30-40 amp boosters (which I have never seen except yours and mine!). 

22 Volts I can believe on the USAT, it's somewhat easy to burn out bulbs on my DCC at 24 volts constant. 

Also, Aristo has used 18v marker lights in a lot of locos, they burn real bright for a while on my layout! 

Also, I found that LGB seemed to want a higher voltage, like my track cleaning loco wanted 24-27 volts. 

Not too much standardization on voltage! 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Aug 2010 07:45 PM 
Nick's numbers are right on one 15 amp booster, but that's a very expensive booster. 15 amps is about as high as you can go in DCC (or what I have found)... 10 amp boosters are cheap, though. 


Greg - educate me.
Who has the gall to price a 15 amp booster at $1600.-?

I know only of a few DCC boosters that deliver 15 amps or better, the Heller HV4S which is very popular, it's priced at 240 Euros (which equates to $US 260.- plus shipping), for it you need an 18 VAC transformer to run it and then the Gallus G80-SP1 at 160 Euros, also requiring an external supply, but it can be DC, ie a switching power supply, or the same unit with an integrated switching supply at 220 Euros.

There is also the Perandones booster but it puts out 20 amps which is over my comfort level when it comes to powering my trains.
I can't imagine anyone pricing a plain 15 amp DCC booster at $1600.- and actually expecting to sell one.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think nick is referring to an entire DCC system, either the Zimo or Massoth. I think there is one with a dual 8 amp booster that can strap the 2 halves together... 

It's not apples to apples as I mentioned, so tried to put it back on track. 

By the way, I was translating the Heller data sheet today... too bad it requires an AC supply... I've learned that unregulated supplies sag (of course) and I want 24v to the tracks, and the Heller spec seems to be 20 volts AC input max... so was not pleased. I was considering getting one, or seeing what the new Zimo will come out with (supposedly it will be a lower cost than the old system and 15 amps). 

Ahh, a link to the Gallus would be great... and the Perandones...would love a 20 amp one... of course running this kind of current on the tracks, no matter what, DCC, DCS, DC, you need to fuse the track pickups in your loco... 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. the Gallus web site seems to be gone... just a holding page... the Perandones 20 amp unit seems to be available, announced in 2002...


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 25 Aug 2010 08:00 PM 

[*] The power to the track is a constant voltage (max voltage in Large Scale is 27 volts).

[/list][/list]
The maximum DCC track voltage allowed for large Scale per the NMRA standard is actually only 22 volts DCC.
27 volts is the lower limit of what Large Scale DCC decoders are supposed to tolerate - so there is a 5 volt buffer between maximum supply (on the track) and minimum tolerated voltage by the decoders.


For years I have been trying to find out where the 22 volt DCC track voltage limit came from - considering that the maximum DC track voltage for Large Scale has been 24 volts for years, I would have expected the maximum Large Scale DCC track voltage to have been specified at 26 volts, ie two volts above the maximum DC motor voltage to allow for the drop through the diode bridge and H-bridge of the DCC decoder.

Same idea as for H0 where the maximum DCC voltage is specified as 14 volts DCC, 2 volts above the 12 VDC H0 voltage.

With only 22 volts maximum on the rails, the motor of the loco may only get 20 volts max. and that is too low for some locos.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, and going from 20 volts to 23.5 on my layout took my QSI equipped E8's from 65 smph to 92 smph... 

I find 3 volts drop in the decoder not unusual... the bridge on the input and the resistance of the output transistors... 

Regards, Greg


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I would suggest a look at Astron. They make power supplies lots of linear regulated supplies. Massive transformer, caps, and highly regulated.. much less than 5mv ripple at full load, and it keeps a constant voltage all the way out. 

I run the rs35m and rs70m for my ham radio equipment at 13.8V. With no voltage drop pulling full loads. 

They have the LS series (pg 6) which is 28V nominal, internally adjustable 22-32VDC 

The largest one in 28V is 27Amp continuous, 35Amp peak and Weighs a measly 49 Lbs. 

JP


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Since DCC output is a square wave, ripple is not an issue... no one needs linear regulated supplies in DCC... I am a Ham, and have a 50 amp astron... 13.8v, nice boat anchor. 

The days of linear regulated supplies are pretty much limited to precision lab supplies... (and I have a couple of them too)... 

The OP (original poster) is going to run DCC... the meanwell is perfect for the systems that will accept DC input. If you have a system that needs AC, well, good luck finding a regulated AC supply... 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Aug 2010 08:38 PM 
I think nick is referring to an entire DCC system, either the Zimo or Massoth. I think there is one with a dual 8 amp booster that can strap the 2 halves together... 

It's not apples to apples as I mentioned, so tried to put it back on track. 

By the way, I was translating the Heller data sheet today... too bad it requires an AC supply... I've learned that unregulated supplies sag (of course) and I want 24v to the tracks, and the Heller spec seems to be 20 volts AC input max... so was not pleased. I was considering getting one, or seeing what the new Zimo will come out with (supposedly it will be a lower cost than the old system and 15 amps). 

Ahh, a link to the Gallus would be great... and the Perandones...would love a 20 amp one... of course running this kind of current on the tracks, no matter what, DCC, DCS, DC, you need to fuse the track pickups in your loco... 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. the Gallus web site seems to be gone... just a holding page... the Perandones 20 amp unit seems to be available, announced in 2002...



Zimo used to have an MX800 which was 2 8 amp units one could bridge to get 15 amps total, but that hasn't been available for quite some time.
The new MX-10 DCC system Zimo is working on will provide 8 amps of output current with short term capabilities up to 12 amps. The power supply is separate from the command station/booster which will make the unit more universal. A second MX-10 can be bridged to give up to 20 amps of output current. Zimo's short circuit protection is quite sophisticated - it can distinguish between a required increase in current for legitimate reasons and a short circuit that requires the booster to be shut down. Zimo has always provided regulated DCC voltage to the track, so the power feed to the Zimo system, does not need to be regulated.

No idea what the pricing will be, but as you said, the message so far is that it will be lower than the current units.
Still, Zimo doesn't seem to make a separate booster available, ie MX-10 without the DCC generation and control circuitry at a more reasonable price.

We have been speculating over the years why Heller is very atemate about requiring an AC supply. I remember writing him once, but the answer I received was meaningless. I really see no reason why a heller booster can't be operated with a DC supply of the appropriate voltage. maybe I need to dig into this a bit deeper.

As to Gallus - I had a few great conversations with him a few years back. He seemed to have the right idea - he offered a 10, 12 and 15 amp booster with and without integrated power.
The power supply was actually a switching supply and increased the total prive of the booster by 60 Euros which was quite reasonable.

The 15 amp booster is pretty much a basic complementary power amplifier using three BDW83 and 84 transistors in parallel in the output stage. There is a bit of digital logic to evaluate the input DCC signal and also provide feedback to the central station in case of a short circuit.

But these boosters couldn't accomodate Railcom and the design was dated, however I now a number of people in Eyurope who used them aqnd they were quite happy with them.

As to Perandones - they wanted 989 Euros for theirs back in 2007 or so. Seemed somewhat unreasonable to me price-wise. 

Sort of interesting that none of the US based companies offer anything more than a 10 amp unit - I would think for Large Scale one wants either a 15 amp unit or a 10 amp unit where on can bridge the outputs of two of them to get 18 to 20 amps.

Knut


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

To Dan, the original poster

You don't really need more than 10 amps unless you are really pushing things. A lot of the people on this forum are obsessed with maximizing everything--there's no need for most layouts. 20 volts is fine. !0 amps is fine for most everything.

Amperage is a measure that changes with demand--if you are running a loco on a level track, and suddenly the track starts to go uphill, the loco will draw more amps. If it's pulling a long train, it will draw more amps. If it's pulling a long train of passenger cars with incadenscent bulbs, they will draw more amps. (led bulbs draw way way less). If you have two locos pulling 12 passenger cars with incandescent lights, and it hits a grade, your amperage will go way up. Just as a point of information, a train with 12 passenger cars will be over 30 feet long. The cars alone will cost $2400. Are you talking about that kind of size, including enough track to make a 30-40- foot train feasible? If you are, then you aren't really worried about cost. Get the most powerful regualted power supply you can find.


I've been able to run multiple locos with moderately long trains on ten amps, and my layout has a very stiff grade on it. I typically run 4-8 passenger cars, with led lights, and 15-20 freight cars with no problems on ten amps. Are you going to need more than that? If so, then go for more amperage


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

Thanks all for the information again. It certainly helps and then add addtional questions and confusion. Maybe if I had a drink when I read these forums, more of it would make sense. Anyways - here I go again.... 

I was under the impression that I had to hook up a power supply to the rails and then install the DCC in my engines (decoder/sound and wireless card). I could then turn the power on; and by use of the wireless controller, control the loco. Now we have added Command stations and boosters to the list.... I see the diagram above and it makes sense for the most part. 

So this is my current bottom line on what I am about to purchase. This is what I have decided so far from all of the inputs on this forum, other forums, and from some of the local railers: 
1 Handheld NCE Gwire controller 
1 Quantum Magnum: Universal "G" Gauge Sound & Power System --- per USA Loco 
1 Quantum Aristo Sound Decoder for Aristocraft® Locomotives --- per Aristo loco 
1 Quantum GWire™ Receiver --- per loco 
1 Quantum Programmer - so that I can update/maintain my sound files 
1 Meanwell S-320-24 -or- Meanwell SE-450-24 -or- Meanwell SE-600-24 (have not determined how many amps that I need) 
Note that I am looking at the airwire drop-ins but they are not available. I will probably give them a try at a later date because (as I understand it), they will be compatable with the DCC system I am setting up. 

I am going to purchase enough to power a single loco to start and then build from there... 

Can someone please explain what the purpose of the Command Station and and the purpose of the Booster? My thought is that the command station is so that I can send the commands through the rails and the booster is for increasing the signal on large layouts. Do I need these for controlling accessories? 

Sorry if I look ignorant on the subject, but I am trying to learn so I know where to spend my first round of $ to play over the winter so construction can start in the spring. I have learned so much from your discussions (sometime arguements) - but its all good. Seeing the passion that each has for what they have set up and done is amazing. I know that I want to learn from your experiences so that I can possibly avoid startup mistakes made by so many. 

Thank you again! Dan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan, you have mixed a different type of control into the "DCC" concept. What you have will work, but will cost you more money. 

What you have is an extension of the Airwire system, where the throttle communicates wirelessly directly to the loco, requiring an extra receiver in the loco... 

What would be much more economical per loco would be to use the equipment as you see above, and then the DCC signal comes from the rails, not directly through the air. 

Then you use a "normal" NCE system, and you save $100 per loco, because you do not need the GWire Receiver. 

The Gwire system is a system normally intended for battery power, where power to the rails is not needed. This makes it so you have to send the DCC signals directly over the air, because you cannot use the rails. 

What you want is the "10 amp NCE radio system", that will give you everything except the meanwell on the control side. Then each loco only needs the Quantum Magnum or Quantum Aristo. 

At $100 less per loco, the savings adds up pretty fast. The Gwire system also has some limitations in the number of throttles and locos that can run at one time. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By dperrott on 27 Aug 2010 08:28 AM 

I was under the impression that I had to hook up a power supply to the rails and then install the DCC in my engines (decoder/sound and wireless card). I could then turn the power on; and by use of the wireless controller, control the loco. Now we have added Command stations and boosters to the list.... I see the diagram above and it makes sense for the most part. 

So this is my current bottom line on what I am about to purchase. This is what I have decided so far from all of the inputs on this forum, other forums, and from some of the local railers: 
1 Handheld NCE Gwire controller 
1 Quantum Magnum: Universal "G" Gauge Sound & Power System --- per USA Loco 
1 Quantum Aristo Sound Decoder for Aristocraft® Locomotives --- per Aristo loco 
1 Quantum GWire™ Receiver --- per loco 
1 Quantum Programmer - so that I can update/maintain my sound files 
1 Meanwell S-320-24 -or- Meanwell SE-450-24 -or- Meanwell SE-600-24 (have not determined how many amps that I need) 
Note that I am looking at the airwire drop-ins but they are not available. I will probably give them a try at a later date because (as I understand it), they will be compatable with the DCC system I am setting up. 

I am going to purchase enough to power a single loco to start and then build from there... 




Dan: it is complicated. 

"DCC" is just a set of communications protocols--just a format for sending digital instructions. A loco can receive DCC signals either over the rails, the same place it gets power, or over the air. If the DCC signals travel over the air, you can power the loco with either straight DC on the rails, or batteries in the loco. But DCC itself is just a format for a set of standardized digital commands. 


With me so far? 

If you opt for *DC on the rails/DCC over the air* (which I used for a while), you need a DC power pack plus


1. A decoder for the loco
2. A receiver to pick up DCC signals over the air

3. A throttle which can send DCC over the air. 


You only need one throttle, but for each loco you need a decoder AND a receiver for the wireless. At this time, you have two choices in throttles (the Airwire throttle and the NCE "GWIRE" throttle), and two choices in decoders (Airiwre decoders which have a built in receiver but no sound, and QSI decoders, which have excellent sound built in but require a standalone "Gwire" board). 


If you opt for *DCC on the rails,* you need 


The command station/booster deal mentioned above
plus a power supply 
a decoder for each loco 


You may be saying "why would I bother with DCC on the rails, if I can have it via wireless." There are a couple reasons you might prefer DCC on the rails


One might be cost. For each loco you buy, you only need a decoder. If you want sound, DCC on the rails becomes extremely cheap. I started with plain old DC on the rails and for a while used QSI and Gwire decoders with an Airwire throttle. It worked well, but each time I wanted to add a loco with sound I had to shell out an additional 100 beans for the "GWire" card. In the long run, it's much cheaper to cut that step out.


A second reason might be control. With DCC on the rails, you can easily control switches and other accessories using the same throttle you use to run the loco. It only takes two wires connecting the switch motor to the track 


A third reason might be reverse loops or wyes. If you want to add these, it's very easy with DCC, and the necessary switching is done automatically, with very little wiring.

If you don't think you will add a lot of locos and switches and accessories, DCC on the rails might not be the best choice for you.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Good job on the explanation! (I was leaving for work). 

I'd say the cutover point is 4-6 locos... 4 or more locos go track powered DCC. If you KNOW, for a certainty that you will have fewer locos forever, and don't want to have remote controlled switches, then I'd entertain the other alternative. 

For me it was a no-brainer... it seems costly up front to buy the system, but adding each loco is very economical and easy. I have all 27 switches remotely controlled, and just hooked the controllers to the rails, no more wiring. 

There are also big advantages to a system, i.e. there is a nice red button on the NCE controller. Press it once, and your loco stops. Press it twice, all locos stop. Press it 3 times, and the power to the track is turned off. Instantly. Only a system where there is a "central brain" can do this. 

There's a lot more advantages, like the system knowing what consists are defined, and this information is available to all users easily. (browse consists). I could go on and on, but* these things, which might not seem important now, are welcome benefits as you use the system over time. *

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 27 Aug 2010 09:17 AM 

You may be saying "why would I bother with DCC on the rails, if I can have it via wireless." There are a couple reasons you might prefer DCC on the rails





I should add that with "DCC on the rails" you can still have a wireless throttle (which in my mind is what you want especially if you're running outdoors).
In that case, the wireless throttle communicated wirelessly with the Command station which in turn sends the DCC signals over the rails.
Cost wise that's more than a "wired throttle" DCC system but a lot less than communicating wirelessly with every individual loco.

The wireless throttle communicating with the DCC Command Station is what most people I know who run DCC use.

That option is available from pretty much every DCC system supplier and with that approach you can use any DCC decoder in the loco,
you're not limited to a few specific types.

Knut


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

Great information! It is making allot more sense. I am leaving out of town so I printed this forum thread so I can read and absorb while camping, at the campfire with a glass of wine. 

Thank you again. I am sure that I may come up with more questions to ask on Monday!


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

No drinking and training please, We do frown on that here............................


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Aug 2010 08:38 PM 

By the way, I was translating the Heller data sheet today... too bad it requires an AC supply... I've learned that unregulated supplies sag (of course) and I want 24v to the tracks, and the Heller spec seems to be 20 volts AC input max... so was not pleased. I was considering getting one, or seeing what the new Zimo will come out with (supposedly it will be a lower cost than the old system and 15 amps). 

Ahh, a link to the Gallus would be great... and the Perandones...would love a 20 amp one... of course running this kind of current on the tracks, no matter what, DCC, DCS, DC, you need to fuse the track pickups in your loco... 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. the Gallus web site seems to be gone... just a holding page... the Perandones 20 amp unit seems to be available, announced in 2002...



I'm interested in a 15 Amp booster as well and have made some inquiries.

For one, Mr. Gallus is apparently seriously ill, so those boosters are off the table for now.

I tried reaching Mr. Heller several times by phone last week but all I got was the answering machine. I'll try again on Monday.

Even though he specifically states that a DC supply can't be used to power the unit, a couple of people in Germany claim they are doing just that.

Looking at Heller's spec sheet just now, the one for the HV4 S with Railcom, I noticed that the DCC output is in fact regulated, that's why he pretty strongly recommends

a transformer with a minimum 18 volt output under full load.

Anyway - operating it with a 24V switching supply would definitely better and probably cheaper as well.

I looked at another booster that people have modified to provide 15 amps and more - it was also intended to only use an AC transformer as the power source but it could run with a symmetrical +/- 24 volt switching supply. Trouble is I can't find such a beast at a reasonable price that delivers 15 amps.


And Perandones - yeah it is spec'd at 20 amps with integrated power (which is probably 230 volts only considering it's an Austrian product), but the price is close to $1000 Euro.

It's really meant for huge commercial model train layouts like Wunderland in Hamburg. 


Best regards, Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for all the effort Knut! 

Let me know what you find out. 

Another idea might be to contact NCE and ask them about finding a way to parallel their 10 amp systems. I may try that. 

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

If you do talk to NCE I would be interested what they have to say - mostly actually why they don't offer a 15 or 20 Amp booster.
Maybe they don't see a market for one - technically it's pretty straight forward except for the short circuit protection.

We just had another great discussion about that in another forum - none of the traditional methods are really that suitable for boosters and we looked at current limiting, current foldback limiting and hiccup mode.
The higher the current capabilities the more critical a good shoert circuit protection becomes.
I don't know what NCE has implemented in their boosters in that respect, but I know that the Zimo short circuit protection is quite sophisticated compared to other DCC systems.

I don't think you can just parallel the outputs permanently to get 20 amps. Power supplies and amplifiers where one can do that are specially designed for output current sharing and I doubt that is true for the NCE booster. If it were I'm sure NCE would advertise that.


It should be relatively easy for NCE to offer a 15 amp booster based on theur 10 amp design, I think a lot easier and cheaper than modifying the existing one to allow operation in parallel. If they decide to do that it would be nice if they used proper input and output terminals rather than just doubling up on these terminals.


Regards, Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I finally managed to reach Mr. Heller this morning to inquired about using his 15 amp booster with a 24 volt switching power supply rather than AC. 

Situation is as follows: 
In principle, the 15 amp Heller booster can be used with a 24 volt switching power supply but the standard switching power supplies available over the counter do not meet requirements established for model railroads the way their safety ground is wired. 
So Heller offers a switching power supply that has been modified to meet these requirements - it was actually first developed for use in the US because brown-out voltage dropped percentage wise to a lower voltage than in Europe and the heller booster lost regulation when powered by a plain transformer. 

I honestly never heard of any regulation in either the US or Canada related to powering model trains and specifically as it relates to the 115 volt safety ground. 
If anyone can point me to a document in that regard, I would appreciate it. 
Also raises the question - if in fact such a requirement exists in the US/Canada, can that possibly be met by powering the system via a GFI and a normal switching power supply.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sounds "goofy".... never heard of this, but of course I live in the US. Low voltage does not have grounding requirements, and a 15 amp supply is no big deal. 

So, do you believe it was clear to Mr. Heller, that "24 volt switching supply" meant "24 volt DC output switching supply"? 

If so, I may have to try one of them, although, to get 24 volts output DCC, you will need at least 27 volts DC input. 

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I can understand the requirement in Germany or even in the EU - after all they also have a 5 amp limit on anything that is classified as a toy. 
That doesn't make any sense to me either but that is definitely in their regulations. 
I have never heard of that grounding requirement for toys either for the US or Canada, however that doesn't mean that doesn't exist. I was only ever involved with 24 and 48 volt communication supplies - the low voltage ones, had different regulatory requirements than the higher voltage ones and it also depended if the power supplies were accessible to the public. 
48 volt power that was used in Central Offices didn't have to meet commercial requirements like UL or CSA if it was installed in a secured location only accessible to certain technical staff. 

Anyway - the underlying requirement is that line voltage cannot possibly pass to the rails during a fault condition. The way a traditional 24 volt switching supply is grounded, that requirement is apparently not met when used with the Heller booster the way the booster is designed and requires a modification of the 24 volt switching supply grounding arrangement. 
The other modification, at least something they look at on the 24 volt supply, is the amplitude of the switching frequency pulses feeding through go the DC output and they suppress these in the modified supply if necessary. 

And to answer your question - it was absolutely totally clear that we were talking about a 24 VDC output switching supply. I specifically asked him if it was possibly a -24 - 0 - +24 switching supply he was using, that's basically what the Tams booster requires; ie external transformer drives a standard bridge rectifier in the booster which then provides plus and minus 24 and a reference ground. Those boosters one cannot connect to a 24VDC supply. But no, he assured me it was a single output 24 VDC supply. 
We then talked a little bit about the different ways the DCC signal is generated - with the Tams booster the output switches between +24 and ground and then -24 volt and ground, with the Heller booster the output polarity is continuously reversed. That way a single output 24 volt supply can be used to power the unit. 

Heller has provided that modified 24 VDC switching supply to a number of users in the US. 
He started investigating this about three years ago when they found that the line voltage in some areas of the US could drop below the threshold where the Heller booster could still regulate the DCC output and instead of using a different transformer they decided to go the DC switching supply route and use it to regulate the DCC output rather than the regulator in the booster itself. 

With a regulated DC supply to power the unit, I don't think you need 27 volts input to get 24 volts out. I didn't ask Mr. Heller specifically what the losses were but I remember now he mentioned 15 Watts during the conversation. That would make the typical drop 1 volt across the output devices. 

I can try to reach Mr. Heller again tomorrow or next week if you have specific questions; I also have at least one friend in Germany who runs the Heller booster with a switching supply. 
However, I don't think he is very technical, so the information he could provide is probably somewhat limited. 

In general, all of that sounded very promising. Quite a few people in Europe use the Heller boosters and nobody had anything negative to say about them. 
Seems to be a very robust design. 

The one thing that disappointed me a little bit was the Railcom capability. That is really limited but that is an iossue of Lenz not moving forward rather than an issue with Heller. 

Finally I should mention that Heller is extremely concerned with safety and meeting all safety regulations to a "t". That becomes obvious when you read his spec sheet and the description of the booster, Safety is more prominent in his documentation than any other Large Scale documentation I have ever seen. 

We also talked a bit about increasing the output to 20 amps. He is not really very receptive to that. Currently all wiring, printed circuit paths etc. are laid out with at least a 40% safty margin. The output transistors are 110 amp devices with a 60+ volt breakdown rating. I would probably investigate increasing the output to 20 amps, but don't tell any one.....pssst. 

Regards, Knut 

PS: Hope all that is clear - I'm trying to keep the posts reasonable in length


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the original question was answered long ago.. and I very much appreciate the detail of your answers. 

The specific question is this: what is the relationship of the output voltage to the input voltage when powering with DC. 

In the NCE system, it is almost exactly 3 volts. I needed a 27 volt supply to get 24 volts out. 

Thanks, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Yes, this doesn't fit into this thread. 

Maybe the mods can move the discussion re high powered boosters to its own new thread. 

I'm going to try to find out a bit more from Mr. Heller - I just didn't want to come across in my first conversation as if I'm trying to copy his design. 
It sounded as if he is modifying a standard 24 volt switching regulator since at one point he mentioned a voltage adjustment from 19 to 27 volts which pretty much matches 
the adjustment on the Meanwell. 
I'll also try to see if I can find anything about a US and/or Canadian regulatory requirement of power systems for model trains. 
And the other idea I had after I spoke with him - would feeding via a GFI circuit meet the requirement without having to modify the primary supply. 

Regards, Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Why not start a "high current" DCC booster thread? 

We can pick up over there... 

Greg


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