# How hard is it to make solder?



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

OK, this is a really stupid question, I know, I know. Since solder is tin and lead and both are plentiful, could one simply take tin cans and melt them with lead?

I've dabbled before in metal casting, puchasing bars of lead and solder from Tru Value and mixing the 2 together to produce castings. 

In this application of lead and tin, the goal would be to make either solder or ingredients for casting a variety of stuff.

I know some who purchase Britannia metal and pewter, but it seems that's the pricey way to go to do a lot of castings for large-scale stuff.

thanks for indulging


Dave V


----------



## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Easy, but why? You can buy it in bars from plumbing supply stores. Solder is too soft for most casting work.


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

sorry, I told you it was a stupid question; just curious


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Sir - tin cans are not made of tin. They are made of thin steel sheet that is coated with a microscopic layer of tin. They only rust when that outer layer of tin is penetrated or otherwise damaged. Here in Yoorup where flat figure casting began we use a commercially available casting metal that is a LOT cheaper than doing it your way. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


----------



## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

Actually this is pretty interesting information in a topic I never would have looked into. Is there a non-lead based material that can be used? I remember when the miniature figure industry for war games and role playing games went through the transition from lead based to non-lead based material years ago and while I never suffered any effects, it seems a non-lead solution would be safer all around....


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Kids in "my era" late 1940's, played with lead-based toy soldiers all the time. NO adverse effect for us! Too much worrying goin' on, IMHO.


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

If you're determined to be cheap, make friends with the owner/manager of your local tire store and see if you can mooch or buy used balancing weights. They're zinc/lead/who knows what. The fumes WILL make you sick as a dog if you breathe them. (work outside and stay upwind? Experience is a harsh teacher) But they are usually pretty inexpensive, melt fairly easily, and tend to be pretty sturdy stuff.


----------



## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

Gary, 

I agree - I never experienced any issues with lead "mini-figs" for gaming and as long as the lead stays a solid block and isn't ingested the risk seems pretty low. Just don't sand it !!


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

ok so tin cans are no longer tin but olive oil cans and cookie cans are tin. GR magazine recently had an article on soldering it. Seems it could be melted with some cheap lead like used for car balancing


----------



## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Tin is non-magnetic. 

Bob C.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 23 Mar 2011 11:18 AM 
If you're determined to be cheap, make friends with the owner/manager of your local tire store and see if you can mooch or buy used balancing weights. They're zinc/lead/who knows what. The fumes WILL make you sick as a dog if you breathe them. (work outside and stay upwind? Experience is a harsh teacher) But they are usually pretty inexpensive, melt fairly easily, and tend to be pretty sturdy stuff. Sir - obviously you live in a part of the USA where wheel-weights still have lead in them. This is pretty unusual these days - here in Yoorup lead wheel-weights have been banned for a number of years. 


IF, on the other paw, you DO get ahold of the old-fashioned wheel-weights, please be advised that they contain antimony, used to harden the base lead metal. This stuff is NOT good to breathe, inspite of it being used for many years by reloaderscasting their own hard bullets for .38S Spec and .357 Mag reloading.

Wear a mask when melting this stuff down - better yet, wear TWO masks.

Even better, go and buy your solder.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary, how did we old guys survive playing during the 40's and 50's before OSHA, EPA, California rules, et al??? Oh, the things I did with my A C Gilbert chemistry set in my bedroom after school. And, a friend of my Mom cast lead soldiers, so I always had a plentiful supply of them. 

Larry


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Larry Green on 23 Mar 2011 05:16 PM 
Gary, how did we old guys survive playing during the 40's and 50's before OSHA, EPA, California rules, et al??? Oh, the things I did with my A C Gilbert chemistry set in my bedroom after school. And, a friend of my Mom cast lead soldiers, so I always had a plentiful supply of them. 

Larry 

I don't know HOW we survived.......but we did! AC Gilbert chemistry sets. Almost forgotten about them. Cramming match heads into spent CO2 cartridges to make small rockets! Ah, the good old days.......


----------



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

I bought my casting pewter from Rotometals here: 

http://www.rotometals.com/Pewter-Alloys-s/23.htm 

It's a lot more expensive now then I remember but it has a low melting point and is pretty sturdy. It worked great with my rubber gravity molds. 

Jason


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Just for the record: Lead "poisoning" is very similar to peanut allergies. VERY few people are affected. Most of us could eat a 3 pound weight and it would pass through our bodies in a day or so. Although I wouldn't recommend it, since it is poisonous. Other people's bodies are affected differently and won't process the lead, and it builds to a toxic level. There is treatment for it. 

IMAO, lead poisoning is one of those things that has been wildy exagerated, much like the effects of DDT back in the 1970's. 

Robert


----------



## hawkeye2 (Jan 6, 2008)

SE18 I believe you are trying to make a simple process very complicated. If you want an inexpensive easy to obtain lead based casting alloy then wheel weights are the way to go. Wheel weights are a lead alloy that is harder then pure lead and melts at a slightly higher tempurature (not enough to hardly be of notice) that casts as easily as lead and will give good detail. It also offers the advantage of not having to locate and add other metals to make an alloy. You probably ought to go to your local gun store and talk with some reloaders that cast bullets. They can help you with their knowledge and show you the equipment that you will want to cast lead. 

Tin might be plentifull but it is not cheap (price a pound). As far as I know there are NO tin containers. Tin is too expensive and in its pure form far too soft to make a cookie "tin" from.

If you go with wheel weights you should know that some are now made of zinc and you can't use them. If you melt zinc into your lead alloy you will render it unusable for your purpose and just end up with scrap. The days of tire stores giving away buckets of weights are over with the price of scrap what it is and the EPA watching things so they sell the weights to a metals recycler or return them to the company they got them from to be recycled. The recycler and likely the tire store will sell you the weights though. I melt the weights in large batches fluxing and cleaning the metal as it is very dirty and then pour it into ingots for later use. I stamp "WW" into each ingot so that I can identify the alloy later.

I cast my first bullet in the mid 50s by melting a lead toy soldier in a spoon with a propane torch and pouring it into a vintage Winchester .38-56 mold. I survived that (and worse) and my wife and I still cast bullets regularly and I probably have 1000 lbs of lead laying about. Research bullet casting for techniques and safety instructions. Treat lead and its fumes with respect as with any hobby the potential for serious injury is there though I have never suffered more than a very few minor burns. I think that lead is getting a bad rap from the general public and I agree 100% with what Robert posted but you still need to work safely!


----------



## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

the topic is pretty interesting; sure enough I looked it up and tin is too expensive to use for cans! There apparently is just a thin veneer of tin, but apparently enough to allow one to use "tin" cans to solder into some interesting shapes. For example: 

http://www.funvblog.com/2010/06/26/funny-cars-made-of-tin-cans/


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

The little cast toys we used to play with were zinc.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone ever try babbit metal for casting? It was used for decades as a castable bearing material in heavy machinery.

Wheel weights, probably won't find them too much anymore, especially for "free". The recycle rate on lead is over 95% now.


----------



## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

"...how did we old guys survive playing during the 40's and 50's before OSHA, EPA, California rules, et al???.." 

Back then EVERYTHING was not tainted with toxic chemicals and 'piling' up in our bodies ! When your body hits ITS limit, negative things start to happen . . . 


doug c


----------



## hawkeye2 (Jan 6, 2008)

Babbit metal is as easy to cast as lead and if you are set up to cast with lead you won't have any problems. The castings will be harder than lead and will retain their shiney finish much longer. It is easy to obtain from industrial suppliers however it does have the drawback of being quite expensive. I still recomend wheel weights which should be about $1 per pound.


----------

