# Roadbed question



## cfodk (May 19, 2011)

Hi,

Hi, I am from Denmark. I am planning a 1.20,3 layout for my garden and I have a few ideas for roadbed. I will be going for a "semi elevated" track - about a foot off ground - 2 feet at one or two places with 1-2% grades. I am thinking about using 5mm cement based fiber board for roadbed, (would that be a type of "hardi plank" in American?) suspended between "T" posts (4x4's with a plank across at the top) properly backed underneath by some sort of weather resistant planks. 

*Here comes the question* - how wide should the roadbed be to allow clearence for two large K36 1.20,3 accucraft live steamers to pass each other? There will be no narrow turns - I have 600 square meters to spread out on , so no need for that. Narrowest turn would probably be LGB's widest - although I am going to use flextrack. I plan to build the track first and buy the locomotive and rolling stock later (and no, I am not going to buy two K36's - just one - but who knows - perhaps later a K27 or K28 will be added... hopefully). Well - fact of the matter is I want to avoid building a wider roadbed than I have to - and I certainly dont want to build it too narrow and have to deal with that problem later.

Any ideas you may have for materials, spacing between posts, etc, etc please come forward. Also pictures for inspiration, if you have some. I want to build as maintenance free as possible - and spend my time playing with my trains rather than repairing all the time...

I am a complete novice - and I *have* read a lot of useful posts in here already... thks to everyone who bothers sharing their knowledge.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By cfodk on 26 May 2011 05:02 PM 
Hi,

Hi, I am from Denmark. I am planning a 1.20,3 layout for my garden and I have a few ideas for roadbed. I will be going for a "semi elevated" track - about a foot off ground - 2 feet at one or two places with 1-2% grades. I am thinking about using 5mm cement based fiber board for roadbed, (would that be a type of "hardi plank" in American?) suspended between "T" posts (4x4's with a plank across at the top) properly backed underneath by some sort of weather resistant planks. 

*Here comes the question* - how wide should the roadbed be to allow clearence for two large K36 1.20,3 accucraft live steamers to pass each other? There will be no narrow turns - I have 600 square meters to spread out on , so no need for that. Narrowest turn would probably be LGB's widest - although I am going to use flextrack. I plan to build the track first and buy the locomotive and rolling stock later (and no, I am not going to buy two K36's - just one - but who knows - perhaps later a K27 or K28 will be added... hopefully). Well - fact of the matter is I want to avoid building a wider roadbed than I have to - and I certainly dont want to build it too narrow and have to deal with that problem later.

Any ideas you may have for materials, spacing between posts, etc, etc please come forward. Also pictures for inspiration, if you have some. I want to build as maintenance free as possible - and spend my time playing with my trains rather than repairing all the time...

I am a complete novice - and I *have* read a lot of useful posts in here already... thks to everyone who bothers sharing their knowledge.

I'll bump this back up since no one has answered you yet....

Firsr off I would also repost in the Live Steam forum. Those guys could give you a lot better advice than I can.

I would allow a minimum of 8" width per track to accommodate such large engines. Also you never know what a guest may bring sometime. Another thing I would do is to make the supporting structure wide enough to allow for a second track later if needed. A 20" wide trackbed would not be excessive and would be little additional trouble to build if done right at the first. Live steamers by their nature are usually run in circles and it might be fun at a later date to have a second track to allow a visitor to run the same time as you. In the meantime a single track on a 20" platform could give some protection from falling in case of a derailment.


Make sure that whatever material you use is structural. That is that it can hold the very heavy weight of a large live steamer or at least be well supported underneath. Too much you can live with, too little with resultant sagging could be a disaster. 


I'm sure that some people more knowledgeable than me will chime in and add/amend what I've said. Good luck on your project.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Live steamers by their nature are usually run in circles . 

Thats funny, I like that..


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I allow three to four inches on either side of center of the right of way. Which is what Richard Said. 

Having never been to Denmark, how cold does it get there ?

JJ


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## cfodk (May 19, 2011)

John J. - Denmark is relatively mild - rarely too cold or hot. Goes for both climate and people  .... winters average at about 30F and summers 75F with "spikes" - 10-15 above and below for shorter periods. The temperatures mean that a floating roadbed would disappear in weeds in less than one week which is less than "happy" for someone like me who does not have the back or knees to deal with "manual" garden labor. So I hope to find a way to build my (slightly) elevated layout and still be able to let my machines fix the garden without too much manual interference . 

My only problem is to find the ideal materials. We have hardie plank here and I have heard good and bad about it. We alsot have hdpe lumber - but its almost as expensive as hardwood!!! And then ofc we have plywood, which in case I go for that, I would cover with the type of plastic you use for garden ponds - and when installed I would apply glue and pour ballast on the wet glue. Just an idea - as I said - I am a complete novice. 

Carsten 

PS - Denmark was recently voted "The happiest place on earth" by some study. So please come and see us ))))))))))


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 27 May 2011 06:12 PM 
Live steamers by their nature are usually run in circles . 

Thats funny, I like that.. 
Haven't you ever seen one 5 seconds after catching his live steamer with his bare hands to prevent it falling??? Talk about running in circles! Nothing funny about that!!! (snicker)


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I would be a little careful about gluing ballast. Even with your mild climate, the track will expand and contract with temperature. You don't want to completely anchor it to the platform. Dr. Rivet who has a very large layout built for live steam, anchors his track to the platform about once every meter with a screw through the center of a tie into the plastic "trek" platform. This allows the track to flex and contract with temperature. There is no ballast on his layout. It is strictly for running. Even with this we have to go out before each running session to make sure that all the rails are within the rail joiners there are no excessive gaps, there are always a few.

I think that a glued ballast would cause you more problems than you would like.

I have my railroad on the ground and it floats on a ballast roadbed. This is fine for track power and battery, but I really think that a Live steam needs to be elevated. I've come to this conclusion watching a lot of live steamers over the years. There is a lot of bending down to get the beast up and running. 


Chuck 


Here are a couple of pictures of my mallet running on Dr. Rivet's layout. My engine is battery, but it gives you an idea of what the layout is like. If you go to the live steam forum and scroll through it you will see some video of Live Steam on his layout. You will notice that there is space to spare for another track between the mainlines here. I don't remember the exact length of the layout, but it is between 600' and 700 ' around.


















This is for running, no plants or scenery. It was originally built with ballast. That turned out to be a lot of work to prepare for events. The layout with the ballast was completely torn down and rebuilt in its present configuration.


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## cfodk (May 19, 2011)

I would be a little careful about gluing ballast Yes you are right, gluing is a bad idea. I will have to figure out somthing else to give the roadbed a dirtlike appearence. Loose ballast would definately not work either - frequent rain as we have here would make a mess of it, and eventually it would probably all make its way to the lawn. 

Dr. Rivets layout is impressive, and massive, and solid! Perfect for these huge grounds but too much for my garden. The principle of construction is just what I am looking for ,though, so a scaled down version of this layout might do the trick. I am not much of a civil engineer, or carpenter - so I am asking: With a roadbed 12" wide and with the same basic construction technique, I would ram 2x2s 2ft into the ground for uprights to hold the roadbed. With a spacing between uprights of 4ft - what should be the dimensions of the horisontal lumber to avoid "sagging"? Dr. Rivets layout seems solid enough for a bunch of grown men to dance on (dont know why they would do that, though) - mine just have to keep its structural integrity at say 100-120lbs max - and no dancing .


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I use Concrete road bed. When done right you never have to touch it again unless you have frost heave problems. That is why I asked about your climate. I am in Arizona.

Here is a link on how I do my ballast.

It also includes how I anchor my track.

There is a lot of controversy about concrete road bed and cold climates.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

Hope this helps 

JJ


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