# Rolling stock for Accucraft Lilly Belle



## VTRRLoco18 (Jan 6, 2008)

After seeing an Accucraft Lilly Belle (electric) in person, I just had to have one. So I saved and bought one. What an impressive 
locomotive. Because of the odd scale of this model (1/24th scale standard gauge loco), finding ready made passenger equipment

has been problematic. I acquired a couple of Accucraft passenger coaches from 1998, but since acquiring them, I found out these were based on Carter Bros. narrow gauge cars and are too small (1/24th scale narrow gauge). Does anyone make anything to match my Lilly Belle. It does not have to be Accucraft. What about the AMS Jackson & Sharp coaches? (I admit I am still a bit confused about scale & gauge). Thanks


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

It might help to have some measurements from the loco to get some sort of idea of the overall size. The Carolwood Pacific web site lists the model as 1:24, while Accucraft's instruction manual lists it as 1:20.3. The curious thing is that the "prototype" for the Accucraft model is a model in its own right--a 7.5" gauge (or 7.25") model of a standard gauge 4-4-0. By all accounts, such a model running on gauge 1 track should be 1:32--something the Accucraft model is decidedly not. 

I've seen the Accucraft 4-4-0 (not the Lilly Belle version) and it's very well suited for the Accucraft J&S coaches. Not having seen the Lilly Belle 4-4-0 and the "generic" Accucraft 4-4-0, I don't know if they're the same size, or if Accucraft dug out the drawings of their original 1:24 4-4-0 for this. I'd presume that if it dwarfs the 1998 Carter Bros. coaches, then it's significantly larger than the older 4-4-0, since that made a rather handsome train "back in the day." 

Later, 

K


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

The scale thing maybe way off because it is a 7.5 inch gauge (1" = 0.013247" scale?) on 45 mm track. Would it be 1: 7.4457?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

If you're a kit builder, you might also want to check out the *David Fletcher Carter Brothers kits offered by Bronson-Tate*.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

As I understand it (qualify, qualify!), Accucraft made a brass Lilly Belle in 1/24th about a decade ago, long before their more recent offering, & before Hartland's plastic version.

If this is indeed the engine you have, then any of the Hartland stuff should be appropriate. Aristocraft also makes some old-fashioned freight cars in 1/24th, from what used to be the Delton molds. I'm not sure, however, if their "High Sierra" passenger coaches are intended to be 1/24th or...?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

HLW makes some coaches that I think are longer than the Aristo/delton Sierra's... in 1:24


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## VTRRLoco18 (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for your input. My Lilly Belle is indeed the one made about 10 years ago. It is electric. It is supposedly 1/24th scale. The Lilly Belle released more recently is 1:20.3 scale, is live steam, and is the same as the live steam 4-4-0's released last year.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

See *"10 years of 4-4-0s from Accucraft"*

a forum post of David Fletcher


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## VTRRLoco18 (Jan 6, 2008)

Go to this link...http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/11/aft/38951/afv/topic/Default.aspx


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

then any of the Hartland stuff should be appropriate

Gary, 

The problem with the HLW coaches is that they are narrow gauge - CP 173 (on which Lilly Belle was based) is a std gauge loco. A 1/24th NG coach would/should be too narrow and not tall enough. 

Nevada State Railroad Museum has 'Dayton' which is from the same batch as CP 173. 










They also have coaches from that era: 










Their website is *http://www.nsrm-friends.org/*. 

P.S. You could always pretend it is a 7 1/2" gauge model made in 1:4.25 scale (call it quarter-size for simplicity, as technically it is about 1/4 of the real Lilly Belle model.) Then make some gondola's with quarter size seats, like Walt's and this version:


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Interesting read on the various 4-4-0s. Given those circumstances, I'd be tempted to try something like Bachmann's 1:22.5 passenger cars. They're larger than Accucraft's or Hartland's 1:24 narrow gauge cars, so may be a bit more proportionate behind the Lilly Belle. It's still not going to be perfect, but since no one makes (or to my knowledge ever made) standard gauge 1:24 passenger cars, it's probably about as close as you're going to get. From Fletch's description of the size, I think it's probably comparable to the B'mann 1:20 4-4-0, which looks pretty good at the head end of a string of 1:22 passenger cars. 










Those are actually LGB's coaches in tow. The B'mann coaches are nominally the same height and width, but are longer by an inch or so. 

Given the dearth of passenger cars on the market, it probably won't be too hard to find a sample of each manufacturer and size things up to see what appeals best to your senses. 

Later, 

K


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

IMO, in a case like this, its probably easiest to completely forget about the scale of the model, and completely ignore its prototype.. 
dont even worry about it..scale and prototype is basically meaningless in this case. 

Instead just look for cars that look good with it!  

Its clearly too big to be "considered" a standard gauge loco..nothing in 1/32 scale will be remotely close, 
and everything in 1/20.3 will be too large.. 
thats only leaves 1/24 or LGB.. 

IMO you should just think of it as a narrow gauge loco..and many of the 1/24 scale narrow gauge passenger cars might be a good match for it. 
the only major issue is that the cab on the loco is too tiny for a narrow gauge loco, but the cab is really the only part of the loco that is "scale specific".. 
so if you ignore the cab size and instead just focus on the overall size of the whole loco, it shouldnt be too hard to match up cars from the 1/24 scale offerings of HLW, Aristo or USA trains, 
or LGB.. 

I think there are four different sets of cars that might work: 

Aristo Sierra cars: 
http://www.aristocraft.com/database/?series=31000 

USA Trains "Overton" cars: 
http://www.usatrains.com/usatrainspassoverton.html 

HLW cars: 
http://www.h-l-w.com/Products/s_coaches.html 
http://www.h-l-w.com/Products/l_coaches.html 

and LGB: 
http://archive.liveauctioneers.com/...3_1_lg.jpg 

(any others?) 

at least one of those product lines is hopefully a good match.. 

Scot


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## VTRRLoco18 (Jan 6, 2008)

What I really want to do is model the Virginia & Truckee and the Central Pacific, circa 1881 or so. I am very historically oriented, and want to build two separate lines that would have a junction for interchange like the real V&T and CP did in Reno, NV in the 1880's. I had planned on removing the Lilly Belle decals on the Loco and put CP decals on. I have a second Lilly Belle locomotive that I have already dissassembled, repainted, and will finish into a Virginia & Truckee #18, Dayton. The Dayton and the CP 173 are sister locomotives They were built by AJ Stevens at the CP Shops in Sacramento in 1873. I am going to study the Carter Bros. coaches built by David Fletcher in his MasterClass. These coaches are very similar to the Kimball Coaches the V&T ran. 
Thanks again for everyone's help


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Contained within the Carter Bros MasterClass are *full-size templates in PDF format*. You might want to download these, print them, and make a quick full-size mockup from them. Since you already have the loco, you could actually see how the proportions look before investing anything in the kit(s).


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## VTRRLoco18 (Jan 6, 2008)

Dwight, What a great idea. That is what I'll do....Thanks


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Contained within the Carter Bros MasterClass are full-size templates in PDF format. 

Given that a narrow gauge coach is (usually) smaller than a standard gauge coach, the 1:20 carter bros coaches may be close to the right width/length and height. The doors and windows may be too large - but it shouldn't be difficult to take the .PDF templates and 'adjust' them. You can certainly copy them in a smaller size if you want to make them say 10% smaller. 

Finally, John White's "The American Railroad Passenger Car" [/b](highly recommended for your reference shelf,) has drawings of similar coaches, and in particular has drawings and photos of V & T coach #3 [/b]from 1869, and the V&T Brill coach [/b]with the bow-top clerestory (preserved in the Nevada Museum.) If nothing else, it will show you the proportions of doors/windows on a std gauge coach.


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