# Accucraft ruby hard to start



## gordini (Jan 12, 2012)

I want to ask you this, When my ruby is ready to start and pressure is around 30-40 psi i am opening the cut off valve and then opening the steam valve. Loco is not moving if i am not turn the wheels by hand for say 5-10 rounds and during that process water is running from the cylinder ( probably a leak from the cylinder head). After that and slowly ruby is coming to life. Are you experience with the same problem? Is it supposed to start running as soon as i open the steam valve without help it by hand?


Thomas


----------



## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Until the cylinders get warm from steam running through them, there will be water in them that has condensed because they are cold. This is true of all the locomotives. Since a Ruby has no drain cocks for the water to be released and water does not compress, getting going needs a little help. Once the water is expelled and the cylinders are warm, the steam won't condense and it should run fine.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

This is normal behavior for the reason Carl explained above.


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

The best thing to do to quickly clear the cylinders is to first start out in forward and open the throttle while pushing the locomotive forward. Then, after a small distance, switch to reverse and push it that way.


This will clear the cylinders quickly, and I have found the locomotive tends to like to clear its cylinders in reverse more than forward for whatever reason.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I usually open the throttle then move the forward and reverse level back and forth. This helps warm up the cylinders. You find that it will actually start to run in reverse before it's ready to go forward. Later RJD


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

during that process water is running from the cylinder ( probably a leak from the cylinder head). 
Two more comments. 

You may be overfilling the boiler so that water is being sucked in to the steam pipe. After filling it to the top, remove a small amount - 30-50ml. 

Most Accucraft engines blow the water out of the stack when warming up - it doesn't leak out of the cylinders. 
The piston rod has a nut where it comes out of the cylinder (I think - correct me if I'm wrong, guys.) The nut tightens the packing/sealing washer. 
I would suggest tightening it on your workbench but make sure you can still turn the wheels easily.


----------



## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

My Ruby tends to stick a bit after a long idle period. Appears to be dry O-rings. After a few revolutions of the drivers, it is normal. Then the second run is smooth and self-starting. I heat the boiler with the steam valve cracked open to give the cylinders a gradual warmup. When she starts inching forward I open the throttle to normal.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

"Most Accucraft engines blow the water out of the stack when warming up"



Pete,

As a matter of fact, our 1.5" mogul blows some water spray out the stack with the cylinder cocks open. This just as we are entering the transfer table onto the mainline. Calms down in a few feet and with the closing of the cylinder cocks.

BTW, as far as over-filling the boiler.......we fill the boiler on our mogul to UNDER half-glass. As the boiler heats up and steam starts to form, the water in the glass will start to rise to half-glass and a little beyond. An old engineer taught us this in our staem class. Works!








Could be applied to smaller scales I would think.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

There are an awful lot of locos that have (or oughtta have) the nickname, "Ol' Slobber Stack"!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 20 Feb 2013 09:03 AM 
There are an awful lot of locos that have (or oughtta have) the nickname, "Ol' Slobber Stack"! Ain't that the truth!!!


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

we fill the boiler on our mogul to UNDER half-glass. As the boiler heats up and steam starts to form, the water in the glass will start to rise to half-glass and a little beyond. An old engineer taught us this in our staem class. Works! 
Could be applied to smaller scales I would think 
Gary, 
Seems like a good idea, but only if you have a water pump! Mind you, most of us fit a Goodall valve to the pump-less locos, and I have been known to fire up and clear the cylinders, then stop and refill the boiler and gas tank before venturing out on the mainline for my 1/2 hr run. I have been known not to fill the boiler very full initially on those occasions.


----------



## CN7470 (Jan 9, 2013)

Hey guys, when my ruby isn't under steam i have noticed something odd, if i set the reverser forward and move the engine forward (i do this sometimes for lubrication) , seems like air pressure builds up and makes the wheels go in reverse. is this good or bad?


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By CN7470 on 20 Feb 2013 09:59 AM 
Hey guys, when my ruby isn't under steam i have noticed something odd, if i set the reverser forward and move the engine forward (i do this sometimes for lubrication) , seems like air pressure builds up and makes the wheels go in reverse. is this good or bad? 
That seems strange. I have had our 1.5" mogul do this when we are "oiling around" and move the engine a good distance to get at the eccentrics and water pump cams and Stephenson linkage. But in our case if the Johnson bar is forward, the engine will creep FORWARD (NOT REVERSE) and vice versa. Not sure why you are getting opposite.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 20 Feb 2013 09:38 AM 
we fill the boiler on our mogul to UNDER half-glass. As the boiler heats up and steam starts to form, the water in the glass will start to rise to half-glass and a little beyond. An old engineer taught us this in our staem class. Works! 
Could be applied to smaller scales I would think
Gary, 
Seems like a good idea, but only if you have a water pump! Mind you, most of us fit a Goodall valve to the pump-less locos, and I have been known to fire up and clear the cylinders, then stop and refill the boiler and gas tank before venturing out on the mainline for my 1/2 hr run. I have been known not to fill the boiler very full initially on those occasions. Pete,

I have never fired a small scale live steamer, but can't you see the water coming up in the glass while you are filling the boiler? Just curious.

BTW, I think I MIGHT have to get a small scale steamer soon. I'm gettin' too old to be takin' that monster out to the club!


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 20 Feb 2013 10:33 AM 
Posted By Pete Thornton on 20 Feb 2013 09:38 AM 
we fill the boiler on our mogul to UNDER half-glass. As the boiler heats up and steam starts to form, the water in the glass will start to rise to half-glass and a little beyond. An old engineer taught us this in our staem class. Works! 
Could be applied to smaller scales I would think
Gary, 
Seems like a good idea, but only if you have a water pump! Mind you, most of us fit a Goodall valve to the pump-less locos, and I have been known to fire up and clear the cylinders, then stop and refill the boiler and gas tank before venturing out on the mainline for my 1/2 hr run. I have been known not to fill the boiler very full initially on those occasions. Pete,

I have never fired a small scale live steamer, but can't you see the water coming up in the glass while you are filling the boiler? Just curious.

BTW, I think I MIGHT have to get a small scale steamer soon. I'm gettin' too old to be takin' that monster out to the club!












A lot of small boilers don't have a sight glass! So, no, you can't see it while being filled... and you have to HOPE that you run out of fuel before you run out of water! 

A lot of those that do have a sight glass also have it mounted wrong. The bottom of the sight glass should be above whatever represents the "crown sheet" of the firebox, but too often the middle of the sight glass is at the top of the highest flue, so running with "a half glass" is running with the crownsheet exposed!


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I never realized that the small ones wouldn't have a sight glass. BIG assumption on my part! The bottom of the glass on our mogul and ten-wheeler are about 5/16 to 3/8 ABOVE the crown sheet. Maybe it's less, but I've forgotten. I know there can be a lot of movement of the water column (up and down)traversing the mainline. A little scary when the water gets agitated and sometimes disappears from the bottom of the glass!


----------



## CN7470 (Jan 9, 2013)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 20 Feb 2013 10:28 AM 
Posted By CN7470 on 20 Feb 2013 09:59 AM 
Hey guys, when my ruby isn't under steam i have noticed something odd, if i set the reverser forward and move the engine forward (i do this sometimes for lubrication) , seems like air pressure builds up and makes the wheels go in reverse. is this good or bad? 
That seems strange. I have had our 1.5" mogul do this when we are "oiling around" and move the engine a good distance to get at the eccentrics and water pump cams and Stephenson linkage. But in our case if the Johnson bar is forward, the engine will creep FORWARD (NOT REVERSE) and vice versa. Not sure why you are getting opposite.










Yah it is strange, its only when the engine isnt under steam. I would like to know why its doing that, its weird. Also when the engine is running there are poping noises, i checked inside the engine and water seeps down the stack into the boiler from time to time, causing the fire to make a pop. I just started with live steam so i dont know much.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By CN7470 on 20 Feb 2013 03:19 PM 
Posted By Gary Armitstead on 20 Feb 2013 10:28 AM 
Posted By CN7470 on 20 Feb 2013 09:59 AM 
Hey guys, when my ruby isn't under steam i have noticed something odd, if i set the reverser forward and move the engine forward (i do this sometimes for lubrication) , seems like air pressure builds up and makes the wheels go in reverse. is this good or bad? 
That seems strange. I have had our 1.5" mogul do this when we are "oiling around" and move the engine a good distance to get at the eccentrics and water pump cams and Stephenson linkage. But in our case if the Johnson bar is forward, the engine will creep FORWARD (NOT REVERSE) and vice versa. Not sure why you are getting opposite.










Yah it is strange, its only when the engine isnt under steam. I would like to know why its doing that, its weird. Also when the engine is running there are poping noises, i checked inside the engine and water seeps down the stack into the boiler from time to time, causing the fire to make a pop. I just started with live steam so i dont know much. 

When you roll the engine by hand the cylinders become pumps and move air from the boiler and up the stack... thus the boiler has a negative pressure. When you let go, now the atmospheric pressure is driving the pistons in the cylinders to put the air back in the boiler. THIS IS NOT GOOD! This will put oil in the boiler and that is not a good thing to do. It is not much and I would not worry about it unless you have a sight glass and it gets frosted due to the oil contanimation. (Or you have been doing it a lot!) 

To stop it from happening, open some other port on the boiler (whistle, blower, blowdown (or pressure release), safety valve, etc) to relieve the negative pressure.

The POPPING sound is the oil and water in the exhaust falling back onto hot things in the smoke box or the flue. The oil is lighter than water so it floats on the water and the water boils under it. Just like frying in the frying pan the oil holds the steam down until the pressure is enough to push it aside and that is the POPPING sound.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Semper,

I should have gone a little deeper in my response. When we first purchased our mogul and ten-wheeler and were just trying to "get the hang" of these things, we were cautioned by the "old timers" that when you moved a locomotive (NOT steamed), you should ALWAYS make sure the Johnson Bar was in the center or neutral position. The cylinders act like pumps and your prized locomotive might go right off the end of the steaming bay if you weren't careful! ALL 500 pounds of it! It DOES happen! Don't ask me why I know!


----------



## CN7470 (Jan 9, 2013)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 20 Feb 2013 04:36 PM 
Posted By CN7470 on 20 Feb 2013 03:19 PM 
Posted By Gary Armitstead on 20 Feb 2013 10:28 AM 
Posted By CN7470 on 20 Feb 2013 09:59 AM 
Hey guys, when my ruby isn't under steam i have noticed something odd, if i set the reverser forward and move the engine forward (i do this sometimes for lubrication) , seems like air pressure builds up and makes the wheels go in reverse. is this good or bad? 
That seems strange. I have had our 1.5" mogul do this when we are "oiling around" and move the engine a good distance to get at the eccentrics and water pump cams and Stephenson linkage. But in our case if the Johnson bar is forward, the engine will creep FORWARD (NOT REVERSE) and vice versa. Not sure why you are getting opposite.










Yah it is strange, its only when the engine isnt under steam. I would like to know why its doing that, its weird. Also when the engine is running there are poping noises, i checked inside the engine and water seeps down the stack into the boiler from time to time, causing the fire to make a pop. I just started with live steam so i dont know much. 

When you roll the engine by hand the cylinders become pumps and move air from the boiler and up the stack... thus the boiler has a negative pressure. When you let go, now the atmospheric pressure is driving the pistons in the cylinders to put the air back in the boiler. THIS IS NOT GOOD! This will put oil in the boiler and that is not a good thing to do. It is not much and I would not worry about it unless you have a sight glass and it gets frosted due to the oil contanimation. (Or you have been doing it a lot!) 

To stop it from happening, open some other port on the boiler (whistle, blower, blowdown (or pressure release), safety valve, etc) to relieve the negative pressure.

The POPPING sound is the oil and water in the exhaust falling back onto hot things in the smoke box or the flue. The oil is lighter than water so it floats on the water and the water boils under it. Just like frying in the frying pan the oil holds the steam down until the pressure is enough to push it aside and that is the POPPING sound.


Thank you Semper! Im still learning so all this is really helpful!







I dont have a sight glass, i dont think i could put one on a Ruby #5, but i would love to add a whistle and drain cocks to the engine someday, but my primary goal's right now is to get a goodall valve, change couplers to Kadee's, and hopefully add RC.


----------

