# G Scale Signals?



## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

A few questions I hope someone can help me with.

I know of at least two companies that make G Scale Signals.. South Bend and Z Stuff. Can anyone tell me the experiences they have had with their signals, and which do you think is the best of the two? (when I say signals, I'm talking block signals probably the PRR 7 light)

I'm kinda leaning to South Bend because they look a little more realistic, and don't have a huge black base like Z Stuff does. 

Thanks

Steve


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

We received ZERO support from one of these suppliers, and continue to sell the other.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Wow..*



Treeman said:


> We received ZERO support from one of these suppliers, and continue to sell the other.


Care to elaborate TreeMan, so that I can make the right choice. lol Well, if you are only selling one, maybe I can determine which one to get.

Thanks,

Steve

WOW.. that is shocking because I heard SB didn't give any kind of support for their products, like the owner didn't care. I heard more positive stuff about Z Stuff. Welp, guess I'll be looking at getting some South Bend stuff.

Thanks!!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have a book of Electronic Circuits I bought back in the 70s. In it there was a circuit for a block signal It is made with a 555 timer. I got some 5 mm super bright red and green leds from China. I found some fender washers that the Leds fit in and some copper tubing for the mast. they are tripped by a Reed switch and a magnet glued to the bottom of my engine. When the engine passes over the reed switch it goes red for 70 seconds then back to green. 

JJ


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Signals*



John J said:


> I have a book of Electronic Circuits I bought back in the 70s. In it there was a circuit for a block signal It is made with a 555 timer. I got some 5 mm super bright red and green leds from China. I found some fender washers that the Leds fit in and some copper tubing for the mast. they are tripped by a Reed switch and a magnet glued to the bottom of my engine. When the engine passes over the reed switch it goes red for 70 seconds then back to green.
> 
> JJ


Hi John!!

That almost sounds similar to how LGB did theirs. I can remember when I first started out in G Scale years and years ago. I had gotten 2 of their signals and some other items ( I can't remember what they were called ). I setup an oval inside an oval, sharing a main stretch of track, it was awesome to sit back and watch them alternate and take turns running and the amazing thing is.. I didn't have to touch anything. Signals would throw on their own and the trains would stop and go by themselves. This was one reason, why I liked LGB, and they made it so simple that a child could hook it up. Of course back them LGB engines had the magnets built in on their engines. Not sure if they still do, not to mention now there are other manufacturers so I'm sure you would have to retrofit magnets in them.. (like Piko/USA trains etc).

Yeah, I miss doing all that. I was thinking of picking up some of LGB's semaphores, But I held off, because I'm not sure how they work today, and now with DCC, I'd have to question the hook up and since I own Piko engines I kinda figured they wouldn't work.

Thanks for your tip, something different I haven't seen or heard of yet.

Steve


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Steve sadly yes these are the two companies who are left who make signals. There was a guy who ran Shiloh signals up until a year ago who made brass signals but he retired and no one took over the business sadly. In regards to who is left I would say both companies owners are the most arrogant bastards I have met and won't even entertain listening to their customer base to try and improve their products. I have a SB signal bridge that I use on my clubs layout and looks nice enough. Only issue I have with it as some signal sometimes changes for no reason can't tell if that is because light is triggering it or there is an issue with a circuit? it not a huge deal just annoying at times. I can't say I know how well they would stand up outdoors or how well their sensors work outdoors but I will say South Bends look more prototypical.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

josephunh said:


> There was a guy who ran Shiloh signals up until a year ago who made brass signals but he retired and no one took over the business sadly.


Anyone know how to get a hold of the guy who ran Shiloh? I've been measuring BNSF darth vader style signals in my area. Looking to make brass signals myself. Curious to to talk to him.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*signals*



josephunh said:


> Steve sadly yes these are the two companies who are left who make signals. There was a guy who ran Shiloh signals up until a year ago who made brass signals but he retired and no one took over the business sadly. In regards to who is left I would say both companies owners are the most arrogant bastards I have met and won't even entertain listening to their customer base to try and improve their products. I have a SB signal bridge that I use on my clubs layout and looks nice enough. Only issue I have with it as some signal sometimes changes for no reason can't tell if that is because light is triggering it or there is an issue with a circuit? it not a huge deal just annoying at times. I can't say I know how well they would stand up outdoors or how well their sensors work outdoors but I will say South Bends look more prototypical.


Yeah I was kinda hearing the same on both companies. Question for you.. do you have a youtube channel. I remember seeing someone with the same problem you mentioned and he was talking about it in his videos. I thought he said he had it fixed, turned out it was a problem with their circuit boards?? If that isn't you.. let me know.. I can check my history and send the links.

Steve


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

If anyone's interested, I made a complete, fully functioning, prototypically accurate signal system using Atlas Snap-Relays.

Robert


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Nice*



rdamurphy said:


> If anyone's interested, I made a complete, fully functioning, prototypically accurate signal system using Atlas Snap-Relays.
> 
> Robert


Well lets hear how, Robert!

Thanks


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I used a wheel trip mechanism to throw the Snap-relays, and wired them to the signals, one per block. The wheel trip set the signal on the way in, and then clears the signal on the way out. Directional control is done with a DPDT switch that makes them work the opposite way when they're thrown.

Then the signals are wired to the relay terminals, showing green or red aspect to the current block's signal. The second terminal is used to send current to the yellow aspect on the previous block. On blocks that are entered through a turnout, the signal is routed by a relay wired to throw with the turnout motor.

I can draw a diagram of the required wiring, however it might take me a couple of days if you'd like...

Robert


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB did not make engines with magnets mounted, they were sold separately and still are.
For steam engines I just attach a magnet from a defective disk drive under the cow catcher. These are very strong and can trigger a reed switch on the track.
Also, all the LGB semaphores use a modified version of the EPL drive used on their switches and can be controlled same way as the switches are or even track reeds with diodes,, or switch DCC modules.


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Steve no that is not me with the youtube channel on this but if you find it again let me know I would like to see it.


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## Joe Mascitti (Oct 30, 2008)

South bend all the way. Great products and the owner is ALWAYS available for help.


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## on30gn15 (May 23, 2009)

I can build the mast and light mounting, but making signals work via track circuitry is something I've been intimidated by - since the 1980s. 
Have built N and HO signals, been wanting to have a go at something G. 
Hmm ...

(and, 2poor4Gscale, I like that name!  )


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Let's See!*



rdamurphy said:


> I used a wheel trip mechanism to throw the Snap-relays, and wired them to the signals, one per block. The wheel trip set the signal on the way in, and then clears the signal on the way out. Directional control is done with a DPDT switch that makes them work the opposite way when they're thrown.
> 
> Then the signals are wired to the relay terminals, showing green or red aspect to the current block's signal. The second terminal is used to send current to the yellow aspect on the previous block. On blocks that are entered through a turnout, the signal is routed by a relay wired to throw with the turnout motor.
> 
> ...


Robert, let's see this! I have plenty of time to wait, but would love to see how you did this.

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Link*



josephunh said:


> Steve no that is not me with the youtube channel on this but if you find it again let me know I would like to see it.


Here you go.. if you watch the video.. it states how the semaphore will change on it's own, you can actually see this..

But if you read the full description, last line reads.. UPDATE.. There was a problem with the circuit board, and it's been replaced.

LINK! 




Hope it helps in some way..
Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Ha*



on30gn15 said:


> I can build the mast and light mounting, but making signals work via track circuitry is something I've been intimidated by - since the 1980s.
> Have built N and HO signals, been wanting to have a go at something G.
> Hmm ...
> 
> (and, 2poor4Gscale, I like that name!  )


HI.. thanks, yeah I figured might as well pick something that's true.  Right now, I'm pawning off all my HO stuff to buy the G-Scale stuff, so that will end soon.. although I must admit, I just bought a Piko PRR Camelback, a PRR Drover's Caboose and a little track.. 

I think I might go with the south bend stuff, people are leaning more towards them. I need something easy and it looks simple. 

Steve


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

I have four of the wireless SB signals. They work fine, though I got the 9v battery version, which means the batteries will run out sooner than if you get the ones with lithium batteries. I just didn't want to bother charging yet more batteries.
The only issue I had is the detector that goes in the track cannot fit unless you have code 332 track. Mine is code 250. However, I sent the first pair back to Jim and he fixed them (making the detectors less tall) so that now they are nearly perfect size. they are just a touch too tall still, but that is not a problem. 

I like them enough that I ordered a second pair - which I have yet to take out of the box. I expect they will work fine.

If you have more questions let me know.

John


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*SB*



John Allman said:


> I have four of the wireless SB signals. They work fine, though I got the 9v battery version, which means the batteries will run out sooner than if you get the ones with lithium batteries. I just didn't want to bother charging yet more batteries.
> The only issue I had is the detector that goes in the track cannot fit unless you have code 332 track. Mine is code 250. However, I sent the first pair back to Jim and he fixed them (making the detectors less tall) so that now they are nearly perfect size. they are just a touch too tall still, but that is not a problem.
> 
> I like them enough that I ordered a second pair - which I have yet to take out of the box. I expect they will work fine.
> ...


Well, I know for a fact, I want a pair of their crossing signals with gates, they are the most realistic that I have seen, especially with lights on the arms. I'll probably get a few of the 7 light that the PRR used, but I need to read up on signals first to find out how to do the placement and what type to get. I'm kind of a tard when it comes to that. I have a small "floor" layout that will be temporary until I move, then it'll probably move to a indoor table until I can get some friends willing to help dig up the yard and lay rail. lol. I have a track plan done by anyrail which I'm kind of happy with and it will allow for 2 trains. But doing the signals, yeah I need more info on placement and use.

New proposed indoor layout....










Thanks

Steve


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I use the Z Stuff B&O signals. I think they look pretty good and work moderately well. I am a battery powered RR and I use some older 9.6v batteries for the signals.

My one issue is that the infrared detector is not real good on black trains. I run some long coal trains pulled by WM black diesels. The entire train can roll by and not trip the signal. 

Below is a short video showing the signal in operation. (The 1:22 mark) I think it looks pretty good. This was filmed Black Friday last year at my open house.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Nice*



Tom Parkins said:


> I use the Z Stuff B&O signals. I think they look pretty good and work moderately well. I am a battery powered RR and I use some older 9.6v batteries for the signals.
> 
> My one issue is that the infrared detector is not real good on black trains. I run some long coal trains pulled by WM black diesels. The entire train can roll by and not trip the signal.
> 
> Below is a short video showing the signal in operation. (The 1:22 mark) I think it looks pretty good. This was filmed Black Friday last year at my open house.


Oh that was great!! I know Z-Stuff is weather proofed to a degree, not sure SB is. Also, what did you use for the Christmas lights? I need to get some. Bought my first G scale building, got a hold of the Cherry Hill Shanty, went to build it today for something to do, and I guess it's been out of production for a while, the glue was all dried out. lol

I'd like to see more videos of your garden railroad!!

Steve


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

The lights are battery powered LED that I recall getting at Michaels. The figures are mostly Lemax also from Michaels. The structures are all scratch built....Buck a Builds I call them. The most expensive part is the glue. Nothing is super detailed. It's just enough to give the right impression. It's all built out of outdoor materials. 

Some pics of the Santa Train. You can see the battery box (AA batteries)
You can also see that the lights on the houses don't look real good up close in daylight. 







My Youtube channel has a whole of videos from the Elm Creek RR plus a bunch of 1:1 trains, mostly Eastern Steam.

Search elmcreekrr for the vids 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=elmcreekrr


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Still Sweet!*



Tom Parkins said:


> The lights are battery powered LED that I recall getting at Michaels. The figures are mostly Lemax also from Michaels. The structures are all scratch built....Buck a Builds I call them. The most expensive part is the glue. Nothing is super detailed. It's just enough to give the right impression. It's all built out of outdoor materials.
> 
> Some pics of the Santa Train. You can see the battery box (AA batteries)
> You can also see that the lights on the houses don't look real good up close in daylight.
> ...


Your railroad is still pretty sweet, yeah I already subscribed to your youtube channel.. I'd like to see more!! Tell me.. do you watch what you buy.. example.. 1:22.5 stuff or 1:29, 1:32 etc.. or you don't care, it all looks good type of person?

I'm trying to be picky right now because I'm not sure if size really matters, but I don't want something to look way out of place. Right now, I'm sticking to Piko / LGB and Bachmann Big Hauler freight cars, since they are all 1:22:5.

Thanks!!!


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Scale does not matter to me if it looks good. A 1:22 narrow gauge box car looks decent on a 1:29 standard gauge track. Likewise the 1:32 hopper cars fit in. If it looks good, I run it. 

I do try to keep to a theme....early 1960s Appalachia, but steam still survived, similar to say Buffalo Creek and Gauley.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Layout*



Tom Parkins said:


> Scale does not matter to me if it looks good. A 1:22 narrow gauge box car looks decent on a 1:29 standard gauge track. Likewise the 1:32 hopper cars fit in. If it looks good, I run it.
> 
> I do try to keep to a theme....early 1960s Appalachia, but steam still survived, similar to say Buffalo Creek and Gauley.


Well, I really like what you did.. Do you have more pictures?? I'd like to see more of your layout!!

Thanks,

Steve


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Try this. I've never shared the whole thing. See if this works.

http://s786.photobucket.com/user/mrfizzix/library/


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Tom,
The Z-Stuff signals can be made more reliable by raising the base up 1/2 inch so the signal hits the side of the cars. The reason they are not reliable is not that the cars are black, but that the sensor is to low and in most cases hits the trucks instead of the side of the car or engines. 

When I first bought some of mine 3 years ago, I had the same exact problem. Maybe 50% reliable sensing passing cars. By raising 1/2 inch, I would say they are now almost 100% reliable. 

Mark


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## BillBrakeman (Jan 3, 2008)

rdamurphy said:


> If anyone's interested, I made a complete, fully functioning, prototypically accurate signal system using Atlas Snap-Relays.
> Robert


Robert, I too would be interested in seeing your system.

Bill


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