# Carter Brothers 28' Flat Cars



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Greetings,

I have a few questions and need a few opinions regarding some cars that I am going to build in Fn3. This whole process started when I bought one of Accucraft's wonderful live steam Americans, the SPC #3 in green. It may not be 100% accurate for the SPC #3 but it is live steam and so what the heck. I plan on using Hartford Large Scale Products short kits to build three or four of the 28' Carter Brother’s flats and two or three of the 28’ ventilated box cars to run with my American. I have already added the rear pilot as shown in the book on early California narrow gauge cars to the American.

Now on to the questions, first does anybody know the exact size of the side sills on the 28’ Carter Brother’s flat car? The reason for this question is when I take the Hartford wood list and try to convert it to wood that I can order I come up with a slight problem. Taking the dimensions of the wood listed for the side sills .222” x .567” x 16.552” and converting that to dimensional lumber using the scale factor of .04926 I end up with some weird sizes, for example. .222” ÷ .04926 = 4.5”, .567” ÷ .04926 = 11.5” and 16.552” ÷ .04926 = 336” or 4.5” x 11.5” x 28’ When I used a scale card for 1/20.3 and measured the drawing that came with the short kit the (and I hope my drafting instructor did not see me doing this from heaven because he would have killed me) drawing does have these weird size timbers shown. Obviously this could be a 4” x 12” x 28’ piece of scale timber. So here is the question, did the Carter Brothers use standard dimensional sizes like a 4x12 or did they use custom cut timber like a 4.5” x 11.5” for their cars? Most of the other timber sizes called out on the parts list is equally strange, ½” bigger here and ½” smaller there.

Now onto the opinions required. Should I even worry about the scale ½” or just use the closest scale sized wood? Next opinion, the drawing shows ship lap decking on the flat car, should I make ship lap siding by running scale 2x8 wood through the table saw or just use the 2x8 as they come and call it good. Third and I am inclined to do this should I cut notches in the end sills and for the inner sills to fit into or just use a butt joint? No one will ever see the notches unless I turn the car over and show them the notches.

I spent two or three hours going over the parts list and the drawings trying to resolve this dilemma and did not come to any solution. If the Carters definitely did use these weird sizes then I will try to the best of my ability to mill the wood to the proper size other wise I am tempted to use the closest common size.

Thanks in advance,
Andre Anderson


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Andre,
My suggestion would be to go to this web site http://www.pacificng.com/ and ask your questions.
This site is for California Narrow gauge of which Carter Brothers makes up a large part. You may have to join
in order to ask your questions but it is worth the effort. The person you specifically want to contact is Randy Hees, 
he is the expert on Carter Brothers. 
You may also be able to contact him here http://www.spcrr.org/

Good luck on your project.
Rick Marty


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The SPCRR also have a good Yahoo group.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Andre, 

While 4.5"x11.5" does seem odd, I surely wouldn't put it past them to use these dimensions. The whole question on whether or not you should worry about the 1/2" is strictly up to you. Do you want it to be "perfect scale", or is "close enough" OK with you? One thing I would say, if Bob Hartford said the lumber is suppose to be 4.5"x11.5", then that is what it is suppose to be. 

As far as cutting the end sills, I wouldn't. This will show up in ways you won't like when you finish the car. The endgrain will soak up more stain or paint than the face will and you will have a dark rectangle showing on your end sill. 

Send us pics when you're done, would like to see them. 

Chris


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

A 2 x 4 today measures 1 3/4 x 3 1/2". The dimension comes from Rough cut timbers that are resawn for a smoother surface, hence the smaller dimensions. 

I suspect that 4.5 x 11.5" is accurate. 

John


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

when I take the Hartford wood list and try to convert it to wood that I can order I come up with a slight problem 
Andre, 

I would recommend you address your questions to Bob Hartford (via his website - http://www.hartfordlargescaleproducts.com/. ) He usually knows why things were spec'd that way. 

And it may be easier in the long run to cut your own wood. When you start fretting over the last 1/2" (in fn3) then you need your own cutter. I have a Micromark table saw with a couple of attachments, and it allows me to cut basswood (from Michael's craft stores) to any size I want. 

On the other hand, a 1/2" difference in Fn3 is only 1/40th of an inch. 


should I cut notches in the end sills and for the inner sills 
Only you can decide how far you want to take the realism of making your own model in wood and getting all the dimensions perfect.

I am building a wooden hopper, and the frame is "scale" lumber. I notced the end sills for the frame timbers, but I'm not a perfect woodworker so they aren't museum quality and I don't think I would bother next time.










_So it is not entirely about your 1/2" wood, but about your dedication to taking whatever steps are necessary to make it 100% a model of the original - even if the original's dimensions are suspect._ 


IMHO life is too short - I wanted to get the hopper running so I could move on to the next project!


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