# CRADLE FOR SERVICING LARGE LIVE STEAM ENGINE



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

There might already be a thread discussing means of cradling large live steam engines for servicing. I would like to know if there eis a safe means of using something that would allow inverting the Challenger to do proper maintenance and servicing. I have been laying her on her side on foam but think I need something that would provide better access to moree area.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By gibs035 on 03 Jun 2013 10:01 AM 



There might already be a thread discussing means of cradling large live steam engines for servicing. I would like to know if there eis a safe means of using something that would allow inverting the Challenger to do proper maintenance and servicing. I have been laying her on her side on foam but think I need something that would provide better access to moree area.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

I bought a beautiful wood cradle from Dan Patterson last year. Try to contact him and see if he can make a larger cradle for you for the Challenger. I believe he is a member of this forum.

[email protected]


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## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

Get with Will Lindley.He has Foam "V' Block that cradles Your Engine and will not damage de-tale parts.I think He was only asking $15.00 for one.The HO ones are $8.00 ,I have one and it works out great.won't go to a steamup with out it.Will is on this Forum.Maybe I can get steamTom1 to post a picture of one. 
Regards Bob


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

What I am mostly concerned about ,is getting it into cradle. Beast is pretty heavy and very sharp edges in front and back. I appreciate the suggestions and wil pursue them.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 03 Jun 2013 10:10 AM 
Posted By gibs035 on 03 Jun 2013 10:01 AM 



There might already be a thread discussing means of cradling large live steam engines for servicing. I would like to know if there eis a safe means of using something that would allow inverting the Challenger to do proper maintenance and servicing. I have been laying her on her side on foam but think I need something that would provide better access to moree area.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

I bought a beautiful wood cradle from Dan Patterson last year. Try to contact him and see if he can make a larger cradle for you for the Challenger. I believe he is a member of this forum.
[email protected]

Garry I got a reject on the email address for Dan Patterson


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By gibs035 on 03 Jun 2013 11:14 AM 
What I am mostly concerned about ,is getting it into cradle. Beast is pretty heavy and very sharp edges in front and back. I appreciate the suggestions and wil pursue them. 
The precise reason I mentioned Dan Patterson's cradle is you are already able to lay your Challenger on its side. You can do this with Dan's cradle AND THEN tip the cradle for access to the BOTTOM of your engine.









His cradles are beautiful wood pieces made with hardwoods and they are relatively inexpensive. My 24" cradle for my Accucraft C-19 was $45+small shipping charge. Came highly recommended to me from our own Stan Cedarleaf.









EDIT: Just saw your post about the reject on the email I gave you. PM me a message through MLS and I can get you info. He is located in Missouri.


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

You need to contact Ross Schlabach. He has a very nice turnable cradle in metal, that allows you to turn the engine arround for inspection and lubrication. Moreover the same cradle is used for transport and putting the engine on the track. Im not sure if he makes any for sale, but else you can probably see if he will give you the description/plans, so you can get some one to build one. 
There is also a very nice design of Ulli Holtmann (Germany) in one of the old NL&J (G1MRA). It has been altered over the years, so it can do the "turn over" as well. But it is not a "Public design", so you have to get a copy of an old NL&J. 

I guess your Challenger needs a cradle, else you handling will one day give problems. Im presently Building a modified version of the Holtmann design. But Im not ready to show the Work. 

Regards 

David


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Art

Here is an idea....based the internal structure of the contain similar to the rotational coal hopper dump design. This would allow access service the on side and underside then into and out of the box onto the track. The trick would be to make the rotational aspect small enough for a "normal size" carry box but big enough for the locomotive to pass in and out of (with strong lightweight material) thus not having to lift and turn over. No an immediate solution just a possibility. 

http://members.trainorders.com/pmack/dumper6.jpg


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## oceansidean (Dec 27, 2010)

I purchased a nice 32 inch long rotating "V" cradle from Chuck Inlow last year. The cradle rotates 180 degrees and has a tray beneath the cradle for storage of tools and/or parts. I added foam to mine to cushion detail parts. As another resource for you to try, contact Chuck at this address for a quote or further info. from Chuck. [email protected]


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## HampshireCountyNarrowGage (Apr 4, 2012)

PM me a message through MLS and I can get you info. He is located in Missouri. 

Hey Gary, how about the rest of us get his address.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By HampshireCountyNarrowGage on 03 Jun 2013 02:09 PM 
PM me a message through MLS and I can get you info. He is located in Missouri.

Hey Gary, how about the rest of us get his address. Well here is the problem. It's a privacy issue. I don't give out addresses or phone numbers on the internet. I tried to send an email just now and it came back. Also checked his address that I have in my contacts and Dan is not shown. ONLY his wife. Not good. I haven't spoken to him since December of 2011. Also don't see his name on the MLS roster either. There IS a Dan Patterson over on LSC. If your interested, try to post over there and see if he answers. That's what I would do.









Maybe Stan Cedarleaf knows something.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, after a little research and my pal Stan Cedarleaf, we have a new email for Dan Patterson. 
[email protected]


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

This a picture of Patterson's cradle.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

That's the one I have for my Accucraft C-19


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## PawPaw (Jun 8, 2012)

Thanks Gary for the recommendation. Dan


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Art, 
The problem that I see with locos as they get larger and longer, especially if the tenders are attached, is the actual physical side of turning a loco over. 
In the latest Steam in the Garden magazine, there is an article by a Kendrick Bisset where he shows his carrying sling and cradle combined. 
It is very clever with the loco sitting on a base, and with the top of the loco being held by what becomes the cradle, and as the top and bottom are strapped together, it is just a matter of rolling the whole lot over, to get the engine upside down on the cradle part. 
Then just reverse the procedure to get it back on it's wheels. 
No hands trying to lift one end and then the other to get it onto the cradle. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 03 Jun 2013 11:26 PM 
Art, 
The problem that I see with locos as they get larger and longer, especially if the tenders are attached, is the actual physical side of turning a loco over. 
In the latest Steam in the Garden magazine, there is an article by a Kendrick Bisset where he shows his carrying sling and cradle combined. 
It is very clever with the loco sitting on a base, and with the top of the loco being held by what becomes the cradle, and as the top and bottom are strapped together, it is just a matter of rolling the whole lot over, to get the engine upside down on the cradle part. 
Then just reverse the procedure to get it back on it's wheels. 
No hands trying to lift one end and then the other to get it onto the cradle. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada 
I like the idea of Kendrick's. I might try to put one together. I am still ordering one of the above cradles since I will only be handling the engine and not both the engine and tender. Looks pretty much what I need to get to underside of engine for lubing.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

A bit off topic, but thought this would show how I move my CHallenger around. I made this to carry my MTH Challenger. Stole the design from David Leech.







2" aluminum angle held together with plastic blocks. Two handles for old guys to carry it easily. It angles some from front to back, 3 plastic blocks to hold the strips together.. I just roll it out. have not tried the electrical roll out.









There are window stops at the back that the tender wheels rest against. Bungi cords help hold it down. Just a clamp at the front.








I filed/ground a taper on the front some.








Plastic blocks hold it together. They are notched to fit over the rails to line it up. This way the tender is always plugged in.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 04 Jun 2013 09:23 AM 
A bit off topic, but thought this would show how I move my CHallenger around. I made this to carry my MTH Challenger. Stole the design from David Leech.







2" aluminum angle held together with plastic blocks. Two handles for old guys to carry it easily. It angles some from front to back, 3 plastic blocks to hold the strips together.. I just roll it out. have not tried the electrical roll out.









There are window stops at the back that the tender wheels rest against. Bungi cords help hold it down. Just a clamp at the front.








I filed/ground a taper on the front some.








Plastic blocks hold it together. They are notched to fit over the rails to line it up. This way the tender is always plugged in.
I have a carrying case that Ross made for me for my Big Boy when I had it. Case works fine for engine for moving around. I like your carrier but do not need it now. Will try above Patterson cradle and see how it works. Will workk fine for my other live steamers.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By gibs035 on 04 Jun 2013 09:53 AM 
Posted By Jerry Barnes on 04 Jun 2013 09:23 AM 
A bit off topic, but thought this would show how I move my CHallenger around. I made this to carry my MTH Challenger. Stole the design from David Leech.







2" aluminum angle held together with plastic blocks. Two handles for old guys to carry it easily. It angles some from front to back, 3 plastic blocks to hold the strips together.. I just roll it out. have not tried the electrical roll out.









There are window stops at the back that the tender wheels rest against. Bungi cords help hold it down. Just a clamp at the front.








I filed/ground a taper on the front some.








Plastic blocks hold it together. They are notched to fit over the rails to line it up. This way the tender is always plugged in.
I have a carrying case that Ross made for me for my Big Boy when I had it. Case works fine for engine for moving around. I like your carrier but do not need it now. Will try above Patterson cradle and see how it works. Will workk fine for my other live steamers.

The 24 inch is the standard cradle Dan makes. You will have to talk to him about a custom length specifically for YOUR needs. I use his cradle for my C-19 because I like to keep the tender attached while I'm servicing the engine. I have a "Back On Track" metal carrier and I just set the cradle at one end of the carrier and roll the loco and tenderonto the cradle. It IS awkward, but it works.


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Art (and others) 

Take a look at Twerenbolds site (Aster Europa) they have their own version of the "G1MRA/Holtman loco stretcher". 
link: http://www.astereuropa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=41 
Scroll Down to "Loktrage" Pictures speak for them self. 

Regards 

David


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David_DK on 06 Jun 2013 03:28 PM 
Art (and others) 

Take a look at Twerenbolds site (Aster Europa) they have their own version of the "G1MRA/Holtman loco stretcher". 
link: http://www.astereuropa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=41 
Scroll Down to "Loktrage" Pictures speak for them self. 

Regards 

David David,

I just went to your site and I can't "see" Loktrage. ONLY see Lokcarrier AND it is NOT "clickable". I would really like to see this.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 06 Jun 2013 04:16 PM 
Posted By David_DK on 06 Jun 2013 03:28 PM 
Art (and others) 

Take a look at Twerenbolds site (Aster Europa) they have their own version of the "G1MRA/Holtman loco stretcher". 
link: http://www.astereuropa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=41 
Scroll Down to "Loktrage" Pictures speak for them self. 

Regards 

David David,
I just went to your site and I can't "see" Loktrage. ONLY see Lokcarrier AND it is NOT "clickable". I would really like to see this.









Same here David, See site no pics.


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Ohh. yes I see now. It is a bit tricky. 

It is only seen on the German part of the webiste. Use the link, and press on the german flag in the right upper corner. 
- and vola! 

/David


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David_DK on 07 Jun 2013 12:24 PM 
Ohh. yes I see now. It is a bit tricky. 

It is only seen on the German part of the webiste. Use the link, and press on the german flag in the right upper corner. 
- and vola! 

/David 
That is a good carrier but I do not see it too be used as a cradle for servicing engine. Good idea for transport and delivery to track though.

Thanks David


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

The best solution regarding that is the one from Ross. I have only seen photos. But it looks well thought. 

The Twerenbold idea can be modifyed, so if you lock the loco in place, you would have acces to everything when you turn it upside down. 

Lets se what else comes up. With the incresing complexity of the locomotives a good cradle is needed. 

regards 

David


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Any easy way to lock in the locomotive with either the Leech or similar carry on the EuroAster site is to drill a several set of holes to hold a bars across undercarriage frame to keep in place then able to turn over. In additional (particularly with Challenger or larger locos) would need to have several heavy duty carrier handles to support the weight when turned upside down. The open frame would access to most aspects of the underside of the locomotive.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Ross

made me a case for my Big Boy. I am looking at a way to pad the top inside portion of the case and put handles on both ends to be able to invert the case while engine is in top portion of case.
Any thing we do with the Challenger has to concern for the detail on the engine. The foam padding that the Challenger was shipped in shud make for good support of the engine. We shall see.


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Art 
Could you put a few Photos up of your BB cradle? 
I have seen Pictures of Ross' cradle for the C62(last version), and that is turnable, so you can oil things. (But I cant find the Photos now) 

Regards 

David


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David_DK on 08 Jun 2013 11:39 PM 
Art 
Could you put a few Photos up of your BB cradle? 
I have seen Pictures of Ross' cradle for the C62(last version), and that is turnable, so you can oil things. (But I cant find the Photos now) 

Regards 

David 
David

I may have caused confusion. I have a case made by Ross to transport the Big Boy. I am using it now for the Challenger.
I will take some pics of it. I sent Ross a PM about his cradle and have not heard from him.
I mentioned I might try to convert the case to a cradle/carrier combo.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Admittedly I don't have any locos as long, or with as many wheels, as the Challenger, Big Boy etc., but when I 'service' my locos I find that I am oiling the wheels on one side, and then the other, and this needs the wheels to be easily rotatable. 
So, I just roll the loco onto my bench from my carrier, lay something soft along beside it and gently roll the loco onto it. 
I can then roll the loco upside down, and from side to side go get at all the necessary 'bits and pieces'. 
Perhaps a 'sponge trough' type of thing would make it more secure when inverted, especially a large loco. 
I think that one has to be careful trying to lift a loco onto something, especially larger ones, as it's the fingers pulling on handrails and details that might cause damage. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

I received my cradle today in perfect shape. Dan had a perfect packing box for crate and the crate is just as advertised. 

I was doing some maintenance on my Aristo cars when it arrived and got to try it out with them. Did not put the Challenger on it but set it alond side and looks to be a perfect fit.
Will try it out this weekend at Zube Park. Gonna be a hot one but what the heck ,trains get hot and i would imagine a lot hotter is the cabs of the some of the old steam engines.


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