# Linking for On-Board Revolution Receiver



## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I've encountered another problem. I've installed all my on-board Revolution receivers. I have the last one that was installed my my 2nd GP40 that will not link while attached to a battery. If I link from track power....eureka! It works. When I attach to a battery and try to link....nothing. Can't figure it out. I'm wondering if the link button is defective however I tried to link it from the gray button on the board before putting the loco back together and that didn't work either. All the settings are the same as on my other GP40 and it links from both track or battery.


What do you guys think?


Thanks again for your responses.


Monte


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Whose battery packs are you using? 

Are you sure there is no track power present when linking? 

Have you attached a voltmeter to the battery to watch the voltage at linking? 

That should be a start. 

Regards, Greg


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm using Aristo Li-On's.  Have 3 and they work with the other receivers. I've tried linking on my workbench and on the track with the batteries. There was no track power when attempting to link with batteries. I've checked the batteries by linking with the other locos and also with a voltmeter however not while linking. Have a new Renovation battery coming this week sometime and will charge then try linking when it's attached.


I really believe the receiver is bad. Want to exhaust all options before sending back to Aristo.


Thanks.


Monte


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, swap the receiver only into a loco that works... if it links now, it's your battery, if it doesn't it's the revo. 

There was a run of aristo batteries that would weird out and drop voltage or even cut out when you increased the load... they tested fine with a voltmeter. 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Sounds to me like there's something definitely screwy with the battery side of the equation. Either there's a bad connection somewhere between the battery and the board, or the battery is flaky. The receiver doesn't care where the electrons come from, so it "shouldn't" act differently based on track or battery power. (Not completely ruling out that as a possibility, but highly unlikely.) So if it's linking under track power, I'd look for a flaw in the power coming from the battery to the receiver. One way to test that would be to put the "dummy plug" back into the socket, hook the batteries up, and flip the power switch from track to battery. If the electrons are flowing fine (and the battery is okay) the loco should take off at full voltage. (Probably want to do this on blocks...) If it just sits there like a stump, then you've likely got a break somewhere between the battery input and the connection to the board. Does the board have any polyfuses or other circuit protection between those two points? That's the first place I'd look. A continuity meter would help isolate the problem there. If there's no continuity between the battery input and socket on the board, keep tracing inward until you figure out where the break is. If there's good continuity between those two points, then I'd look at the battery. If you don't have a spare battery, then run some alligator clips from the power supply feeding the track to the battery input, since you know the track power works. Throw the power switch to battery and try again. If it works with the electrons flowing through the battery side of things (as opposed to the track side of things) then the issue's the battery. Li-Ions have PC boards built in for circuit protection, and they're designed to shut the pack down if they detect something out of whack. It may be that the PC board is hyper-sensitive to something, and shutting down as a result. 

Later, 

K


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Monte, 

All Li-Ions cells tend to exhibit a common failure mode as Greg described (matters NOT who manufactures them); i.e., the cells deliver scalable voltage but are not able to provide current or amperage. FWIW; this is not a PCB or safety circuit factor it’s simply the nature of the Lithium-Ion cells. I have shared this many times, ALL Lithium cells have a shelf life, and it’s approximately 3-4 years from date of manufacture. The life cycle can be influenced by abuse, charge rates, total charge-discharge cycles, the average one can hope to realize is about 500 charge/discharge cycles in my experience. That said like other battery chemistry as the cells age and or deteriorate the rated capacity is reduced and the ability sustain rated voltage goes away too! 

Battery assemblers that purchase large quantities of cells, and sit on them until sold are NOT doing us any favors! Not to mention modelers that rarely use their toys, rarely get their monies worth. 

Prudent R/C Airplane modelers load test the batteries before every flight with a minimum 1 Amp load to insure the flight packs are viable prior to committing the airplane to flight. I have discovered multiple pack failures over the years by simply observing the voltage while stirring the transmitter sticks which moves the control surfaces. We generally use multiple flight-pack batteries in parallel to increase the ampacity and provide some power system redundancy (we load test each battery seperately too). Trains can live with battery failures, airplanes cannot… 

A “TEST” load can be rigged simply with several 12V automotive #1157 lamps (these are common of older cars and trailers) and available everywhere. Rig up the lamps (solder wires directly to the lamps) and plug them in and observe the voltage while under load. If your voltmeter supports it you can also observe the amperage draw of your lamp load (it’s pretty common for volt meters to support up to 10 Amp current draw). 

Another common method is to cycle the batteries with a “smart charger” these will allow you to charge and discharge the batteries multiple times to evaluate the batteries condition. 

PCB’s or safety circuits are purpose built and or specified with over/under voltage protection, some also have short circuit and current limiting features. These PCB or safety circuits are not all the same and each battery assembler chooses or specifies his desires and wires the safety circuit into the battery when assembling same. 

FWIW: battery or more specifically cell manufactures, manufacture cells and do NOT assemble battery packs. 

Michael


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the additional information. I have found what I think is the problem. I had been trying to link with the battery attached to the rear of the locomotive. If I plug to the front, it links. Believe now that the rear plug is bad or at least won't handle the load that is needed to link. I'll be doing some additional research tomorrow or Friday and probably replace the plug. I hope this is the problem since will be a easy fix.


Just received my first Cordless Renovation Li-On Battery this week. Have been told it is superior to those I've been using from Aristo. We will see.


Again, thanks for the additional information. I'll repost when I check the plug issue out.


Monte


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Monte, good luck, I hope the rear plug/connecting wires are the problem. I can't imagine the plug can't handle the load, more likely thee is an open somewhere between the plug and the engine circuit board. I have personally had excellent luck with the Cordless Renovations batteries. I haven't found them to be "better" than the Aristos, it's just that I like the slightly lower voltage (18.5V vs. 21.5V), and the larger amp capacity of the CR batteries. I think you'll like them though. 

Ed


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Problem solved!! I jumped a new plug to the wires inside the locomotive and plugged the battery in. It immediately linked. I took the old plug off both GP40's and replaced them. Next time I'll check the plugs first.


Thanks to everyone for their input. It really helped and educated me.


Monte


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad you got it figured out, Monte.... 

I read the first post and had no idea what to input. It's interesting that the one MU plug didn't work.... That's a new one.


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 18 Jan 2012 02:55 PM 
Glad you got it figured out, Monte.... 

I read the first post and had no idea what to input. It's interesting that the one MU plug didn't work.... That's a new one.


Thanks Stan. Both rear plugs on each GP40 were bad. I purchased them at the same time but hard to understand why both plugs on each loco went bad at the same time. Whatever. They have been replaced and all is well.


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