# G Scale novice - help with battery on G scale 66



## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

hi all, my first post.

i recenlty purchased an Aristocraft Class 66 in EWS, i want to use it using a battery but am having a little trouble. the manual is quite basic and doesnt say what battery to use or how to hook it up,

i purchased a 12v battery from an electrical store and as there was no instructions on how to install it i had to figure it out myself, there are two plugs, one plug goes to one end of the loco and the other plug to the opposite end. i placed one plug onto the +ve terminal and the other plug onto the -ve , the lights came on but then the wires started melting/smoking
Im not electrically minded but thought that the wire was melting because too high voltage was running through it

so i then tried a 9v battery, the lights came on but the motor wouldnt run

as i say i have never even looked at a g scale loco before so would basically like some advice on how to hook up a battery to the loco
im assuming all aristocraft locos are similar so hopefully someone can help.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to MLS.

I have a bit of bad news for you. Its far more complicated and expensive than just buying a battery and sticking it in. 12 volts is just not enough either for this 4 motored beast. 
Go here - Battery Power  ( look under the Power Car posts ) for some ideas for making a battery/RC trailer car which you can hook up to the plug, throw the switch to battery and off you go.

-Brian


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Seems there is another problem, 12 volts should not have melted wires! 

Time to get a schematic and a voltmeter! 

Regards, Greg


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

well what could it be then ? could it because i put the connectors straight onto the terminals ? 

The battery i used was "AINO MICRO AM 12-1.3 (12 VOLTS 1.3 AH)"

i never intend to purchase wagons for the loco so could only put a battery inside the loco

as i say i may have connected it wrong, as theres no diagrams and im a novice its all guess work


Quote: "and a voltmeter! "

12.5 volts showed











the connectors on the loco look like the one above on the right, excepot both wires are black and theres two connectors, one to each end of the loco. i guess that one connector was +ve and one was -ve


in a minute i'll post a pic of the inside of the loco


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The voltmeter was to help you verify the schematic is correct, because something does not make sense at all, there should have been no problem plugging in 12 volts at all. That's why I said schematic AND voltmeter, as in both are needed together. 

Unfortunately, very few of those over here in the US. Sorry you are having trouble. If you can get a schematic, we can most likely help. 

Regards, Greg


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

Sorry there not the best pics but it may help, there are two of these connectors, with two wires coming off each connector.  one connector goes to one small circuit board at one end of the loco and the other connector goes to another circuit board at the other end


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

perhaps i am being very stupid here ? 

one connector is +ve and the other is -ve ?


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

It won't matter which way its hooked up. One way will make it go forward, the other way backwards. I seriously doubt you melted wires unless there was a preexisting problem. The battery pack you have would probably only last 20 minutes tops at low speed. A fully charged 12 volt pack should show over 13 volts fully charged (did you charge it?). I'm guessing the pack only had enough juice in it to turn the lights on.

-Brian


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No stupidity involved, but you need a way to regulate the voltage so as to control the loco. So, unless you want the loco to run at a fixed speed, you need to add a controller. 

First problem is to repair what is wrong. Do you have any schematic telling you what polarity goes to which pin on the connector? 

While we are looking into this, you need to decide how you want to run the loco. You can go with many different systems to control the loco, and basically the more money you spend, the more options you have. An inexpensive battery power system is available from Remote Control Systems http://www.rcs-rc.com/ 

Tony (the owner) is a great guy and may have helpful information for you. He is often on chat here from 7pm to 10 pm Pacific Coast time (gmt-8). 

Regards, Greg


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

with the connectors, is one pin +ve and one -ve  on the male connectors ? as theres two wires coming from each connector this would suggest so

i wasnt sure as there was two connectors if one connector was +ve and the other -ve  or  each connector had a +ve and -ve on it

they way i had it before was to put one connector on +ve terminal and one connector onto the negative terminal,

as i say it worked but the wire started melting and smoking,

was it becaue i had both pins of one connector on the positive and both pins of the other connector on the negative

its so very hard to explain on a forum, especially when your such as novice as me, im only used to 00 scale


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's a pic of one of my battery/RC trailer cars using an RCS system. It consists of the transmitter (the remote control), the receiver (barely visible on bottom side door), the motor driver (on top door) and the battery pack. This one is 14.4 volts 3500 mAh which last 3 or more hours for this small loco. 










It uses the same connectors as the Aristo. 

-Brian


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

its just confusing me as theres two connectors, im guessing its because theres motors at each end of the loco 

so with these connectors is one pin +ve and the other -ve ? so i basically need to connect each pair of motors up to the battery ?


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Ignore the man smoking the big cigar. He's a DCC guy. 
This has the same basic drivetrain, etc. as the other Aristo 6 axles locos (I have an E-8). 

-Brian


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

The connectors at each end are to connect multiple locos together. Just use the ones at the rear. First try switching it back to Track power and holding the battery leads up to the wheels to make sure everything else is working. But you did not answer the question about the battery pack being charged up first!

-Brian


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

i would take a picture but the loco has been put away for today and it takes ages to remove the body 

but basically, the loco has two connectors for the battery, one connector coming from each end of the loco, each connector has two wires coming off it (both black in colour) 

so does each connector have a +ve and -ve ? so if theres two connectors each connector needs connectng to +ve and -ve


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

perhaps it would be best if i took a picture of the inside of the loco and you can help me from there ??? 

stupid aristocraft and there basic manual

oh and yes the battery pack was charged up first


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristo would normally have exploded parts diagrams on their website but it takes them awhile to get the new stuff on there. You can try looking at the diagram for the Dash 9, as I would expect the wiring to be pretty similar. They also have an online forum that is very active and you can get your questions answered by the people who run the company. 

-Brian


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

right, heres some pics of the inside of the loco

perhaps using paint someone could show me how to connect this up using a battery

thanks for the help guys, i must be annoying you with me stupidness


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The Class 66 is made by AristoCraft for Bachmann UK and is marketed in the UK by Bachmann UK.
As yet the loco is not on sale in the USA so USA forums members may be a bit hard pressed to offer constructive advice.

I would suggest you visit http://www.gscalemad.co.uk/ where they do have experience with the Class 66 and may be able to help you.

What exactly do you expect the battery to do?  
If you plug it in and switch the battery on the loco will run flat out at whatever speed the battery will drive it at.  You will not have any speed or direction control.
Fort that you will need to add specialist R/C equipment such as made by Crest, RCS - EVO, Locolinc and others.

Good luck.


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

the model mainly i just want the lights to be lit, i intend to mainly have it on display at shows with the lights lit, 

perhaps if i were to ask how to wire it just for displaying it with the lights on that would be an easier thing to ask of you

as mentioned im a 00 gauge person so have no idea what is involved when it comes to g scale


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Although the two plugs you show in the hand may be the battery access points, I don't know for sure they are. 
You will need to determine if they are or not. 
If they are, you should be able to simply plug in any battery, turn the motors OFF and set the TRACK - BATTERY switch to BATTERY. This will leave the lights on and the loco stationary.


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## dadreier (Jan 2, 2008)

NWE,

As stated, we are at a disadvantage because other than looking at pre-production models at the Aristo booth in train shows, we have nothing to go by.

If all you want to do is light up the engine, why not just put it on a piece of track with the battery connected to the track? I say this assuming that your engine is equipped with switches allowing track power and lights only, motor off.

Dennis


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

hi, the connectors i have in my hand are for the battery, because the lights lit up when i connected them to a battery 

to be honest thats all i want to do, have it on display with the lights lit and perhaps using the smoke unit, theres a little hatch on the roof that opens and there as switches e.g. motor on / off lights on / off , switch from track to battery etc , smoke unit on/off 

as i am not electrically minded, i dont want to break the loco or blow something, so what sort of battery (if connecting it to the track) could i use to operate the smoke unit and lights


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

ive sorted it now guys, the reason why the wires were melting / smoking because they were touching each other at the ends that were soldered to the circuit boards, ive re soldered them so there no longer touching, connected the same battery up and no smoke, just lights.

right so now ive established what was wrong, what sort of battery will be ok to use the loco just for lights and smoke 
ive attached a pic of the battery ive been using up to now, will it be sufficient

i just want to make sure its ok to use and it wont damage any of the electronics. thanks guys anyway for trying to help me, even though i probably didnt make sense half the time im not usually into g scale and only purchased this because its a class 66


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry I did not understand what you were trying to do initially.That battery should be able to power just the lights for quite awhile. I'm not sure how long though. Lets us know how it works. 

-Brian


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

yeah sorry if i confused you, i confused myself for a while 

what about the smoke unit, what sort of battery would i need for that


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## hap (Jan 3, 2008)

*you should only need to plug the battery into one of the connectors only- each connector has a +ve and -ve wire. If you can buy a cheap battery powered drill 14.2v to 19 volts use the battery from that but put a fuse in the positive lead from battery in case of a short. i use 18v drill batteries to power my locos with trackside TE can run for 3 hours with smoke and lights and pulling 11 cars on 1 battery *


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

The smoke units suck up a lot of juice (an amp or two). Very few guys who run battery power use smoke because of that. The bigger (more Ah) the better. The Aristo smoke units are pretty good. Here is my E-8 sitting on a siding lights and smoke on (track power) -










You can get up to 10 Ah packs like these - www.all-battery.com/index.asp that could last you quite awhile. Also packs with subC batteries or bigger can be quick charged, so you could have two smaller packs and charge one while the other is working. I use a drill battery charger to charge my packs - 










-Brian


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

thanks guys, i finally think im getting somewhere. i'll have a look out for appropriate batteries. 

also someone told me smoke oil is just baby oil, is that true ?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo's is closer to a solvent. It does a good job of keeping the wick clean and from clogging. Lamp oil is closer. Don't use the baby oil, unless you want your loco to smell funny! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif

Regards, Greg


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg is right both Aristo and LGB smoke fluids are called smoke and track cleaning fluid. They are supposed to have a very fine paraffin base with other stuff mixed in (very scientific terminology). 

-Brian


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

it was just something someone told me. how does the smoke unit work anywho


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo has a power resistor, wrapped with a fiberglas mat, combed out into separate threads. The threads sit in a reservoir of fluid. This fluid wicks up the threads, and the heat of the resistor vaporizes the fluid producing "smoke", really vapor. The unit has a fan to blow it out the stack. The electronics regulate the power to the resistor, and incorporate a regulator made from a microprocessor. 

This is for the new style. Older styles were just a simple heater, with no fan. 

Regards, Greg


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 01/12/2008 8:25 PM
 a very fine paraffin base with other stuff mixed in (very scientific terminology). 

-Brian

Sounds more medical than railroad Brian   /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif

I notice NWE has been on the UK GSM.  Lots of folk  there  with Class 66's.


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

Sounds more medical than railroad Brian 

I notice NWE has been on the UK GSM. Lots of folk there with Class 66's.


well i just registered and asked the same question on as many forums i can find, i wasnt sure how busy the forums would be, sometimes you find a forum where you have to wait days for a reply. this forum seems to be quite busy though


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

STOP!
 
Harold read the first post properly. This gentleman has hooked up the positive terminal of the battery to the plug on one end of the locomotive; and negative terminal of the battery to the plug on the OTHER end of the locomotive. The battery should have been connected to either plug, not both. As these plugs are connected to a power buss, the result was a dead short across the terminals of the battery. That was the reason for the smoke and melted wires.
 
Sorry for shouting, but it appeared that the cause of the problem was not recognized. The locomotive plugs were probably wired correctly, and would be the same as all other Aristo-Craft Plug and Play locomotives.
 
What has to be determined is which terminal on the locomotive plug is positive and which is negative so the gentleman can hook up his battery, or battery car, or power car. Unfortunately Aristo-Craft use black for both leads on their plugs, so there isn’t a bright red wire showing. Their Lithium-Ion battery however has colour coded leads.
 








 
If we use this as standard, the locomotive plugs with the locking tab up are wired accordingly.


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

Folks, just for completeness... 

I think we've now sorted out NWE over on the G Scale Mad forum. All he wanted to do was display the loco with the lights and smoke on. So all he needs to do is set the loco on a length of track, switch OFF the motors under the cover on the roof and supply some power to the track. No need for dismantling the loco to fit batteries etc. 

A 9 volt battery works the lights fine for a while, or for longer periods and/or with the smoke on he can use a 1 amp controller from his OO/HO set. 


Nick


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## northwestengland (Jan 12, 2008)

STOP! 



Harold read the first post properly. This gentleman has hooked up the positive terminal of the battery to the plug on one end of the locomotive; and negative terminal of the battery to the plug on the OTHER end of the locomotive. The battery should have been connected to either plug, not both. As these plugs are connected to a power buss, the result was a dead short across the terminals of the battery. That was the reason for the smoke and melted wires.



yeah thats what i did, as there was no instructions on how to connect it up in the manual (aristocraft probably didnt expect such a novice as me to buy one) and as both wires were black i wasnt sure if it was +ve _ve etc . 

Im used to just slapping decoders into locomotives in 00 and thats it. 



I think we've now sorted out NWE over on the G Scale Mad forum. All he wanted to do was display the loco with the lights and smoke on. So all he needs to do is set the loco on a length of track, switch OFF the motors under the cover on the roof and supply some power to the track. No need for dismantling the loco to fit batteries etc. 



yep they have thanks 

sorry if i confused anyone as to what i wanted to do. 

I emailed bachmann (who are the distributors for aristocraft i think) and asked them but they just try and sell you stuff, they just said i needed a battery and gave me a product code. 


thanks again guys (you can get back to your proper threads with non silly questions )


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

There is no such thing as a silly question. We all started as newbies and asked a lot of questions. That's how we learn.

Hope you enjoy your new locomotive!


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## Johnsop (Jan 5, 2008)

Bye the way - i hope you are going to install a switch so that you can run it without disassembling it it looks such a great model. 
PHIL


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Dear Sir - from my own personal experience you are more likely to receive an answer from King Tut than from Bachmann, especially as far as THIS model is concerned.  As it has no actual Bachmann input except marketing, they are more than likely to know less about it than you do.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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