# Sticky  Metal Lathes



## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

This summer I plan to buy a metal lathe. Would like something under $1000
The max diameter I would probable do is 3 inches, max length 7 inches
Won't use cnc

Plaese comment our what lathes you have used and how reliable they are. Thanks


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a Sherline - works great and has an enormous number of accessories including a DRO. Plus it's fully upgradable to CNC should you change your mind in the future. It's also reasonably priced as such things go.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chrisb on 04/25/2009 7:46 PM
This summer I plan to buy a metal lathe. Would like something under $1000
The max diameter I would probable do is 3 inches, max length 7 inches
Won't use cnc

Plaese comment our what lathes you have used and how reliable they are. Thanks




Being under $1000 you are talking about just one or two particular lathes... the larger of them come in several brands, but are basically all the same one from the same design and made in China. The other one is the Taig. I cannot "compare" the machines as I only have one of the former (the MicroMark mini-lathe, which is similar to the Harbor Freight and several other brands).

See my comments about the MicroMark lathe in:

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/24/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/3350/Default.aspx#3662

It is a nice machine, I guess... if you can put up with the problems inherent in a small machine it can produce nice work... provided you have either the skill or the talent (or both) to do so. I am strongly of the opinion that skill and talent of the operator are the major components necessary to produce fine output, regardless of the make or model or dollar cost of the machine.

I'd also recommend you visit: www.littlemachineshop.com and www.mini-lathe.com for lots of additional information.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris: One of the 7" swing, 12" between center imports would be the way to go. Grizzly' model G8688 would work fine. I own some Grizzly machines and they do well. I've heard folks speak favorably of the Micro Mark model 82710 as well. As you gain experience, you will use some techniques where the extra swing is very handy. In Gauge 1 work you will most likely turn larger diameters, such as wheels, rather than long narrow stuff. 


Since you want to turn 3", Sherline or Taig, although great machines, may be a bit small. If the diameter of your work exceeds about 2/3 of the swing you run the risk of the cutting tool overhanging the bed. You want to avoid that. 


My lathe of 31 years is the venerable Atlas (Craftsman or Sears) 6" swing 19" centers. An excellent machine in every respect. Unfortunately, they are no longer in production. But, if you just happen to find one in good shape, don't pass it up. 



http://www.micromark.com/MICROLUX-7X14-MINI-LATHE,8176.html 

http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-12-Mini-Metal-Lathe/G8688



There arer a number of 7 x 12 user groups and websites. Old "Varmint Al" is a good one to check out 


http://www.varmintal.com/alath.htm


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## Lawrence Wallace (Jan 2, 2008)

My old Atlas 6" (Craftsman) has served me well over the years. I have the Milling Attachment which makes it even more versatile. 
Haven't used it for a while, but run it every so often to keep the bearings and other parts lubed. 


Wanted to pass it onto my son but things change. 

Thought the son-in-law might take the Atlas but he passed on it for my Sherline. 
I still use the Sherline whenever I have train work to do. 
I have the Milling attachment for it also and it works well for light cutting. You just have to make more pass for deeper cuts. 
I think I have just about everything one would need for the Sherline.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

I also have a Sherline, and it converts to a mill in just a few minutes. Which is nice. They have a great website where you can see everything they have and pull up manuals on how to set various attachments.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Chris, 

I believe you need to ponder what you’ll be doing most with the lathe. If you anticipate turning 3" diameter stock and or will be using the lathe as a cut-off tool frequently an import will likely be the one. On the other hand if you find yourself wanting to create small precision components a Sherline is a better choice. There are considerable differences between an import and a Sherline lathe. I have both, the Sherline sees more action. 

The old Atlas/Craftsman lathes mentioned are a viable option and readily available on eBay, or your local Craigslist often bears fruit. Again depends on what your primary use will be IMO. If I was going to turn, cut-off and face 2”- 3” stock routinely the larger more powerful yet less precise lathes would be the right choice. There is a lot of info on-line for mini-lathes as well as info for modifying and improving the import stuff too! 

Regards, 
Michael


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

Do check out the Taig at Nick Carter's site. There's enough there to keep one amused for hours. 

http://www.cartertools.com/ 

Harvey C.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

You can do small work in a medium sized lathe, but trying to do larger work in a small one is futile. Even if you CAN finagle the part in, the lathe usually isn't rigid enough to DO the work. Also, avoid most "convertible" machines. Often they won't hold as close of tolerance as a regular machine, and switching back and forth is usually such a pain you won't want to use it. IMO Look for a nice used Atlas or South Bend machine. A 9" machine is about the perfect size for a small shop.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

You should look for a used lathe locally. 9" South Bend, Atlas, Sheldon etc...You would be much happier in the long run. I bought a 9" South Bend Model A for 300.00 and in very good condition.


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## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

I've been thinking about selling my Jet 9x20 it has a piston style quick change tool post. I'm in KY where are you? 

Johnny


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## Allegheny (Jan 2, 2008)

I would have to agree that you should look for an older used American made lathe. Look on CraigsList and you will find many of them. Something like a South Bend, Logan or Atlas/Craftsman from the 1950's or 60's would be MUCH better than anything you could buy new from the far east - at least for less than many thousands of dollars. The South Bend 9A (the "A" model has a quick change gear box to make selection of speeds and gearing ratios much easier) is a favorite and it is not so big that two strong guys can't move it. South Bend, Logan and Atlas all have Yahoo groups, so you might consider joining one or all of them to check out the capabilities and issues for each. When deciding on a lathe, realize that the size quoted is usually the maximum swing over the bed ways - so a South Bend 9A could fit a 9" diameter face plate - this is usually dereased by half or more over the cross slide. A good hard look at your current and future projects is in order before buying your first lathe


In terms of cost, you also need to consider tooling. And not just cutting bits - things like a quick change tool post, taper attachment, steady/follower rests, micrometer stops, chucks, face/dog plates, collet set up, milling attachments, etc. - as these things can run to many multiples of the cost of the base lathe. A good rule of thumb is to take the cost of the lathe and quadruple it for the tooling! For that odd widget you need, eBay or the Yahoo groups can usually deliver. Ideally, you should get all of this stuff when you purchase the lathe.


Also be aware that many lathes may have a 3-phase motor. If you don't have 3-phase available from your utility, you would need to use a static inverter, a rotary phase converter, or a variable frequency drive - or swap out the existing motor and controls for a single phase setup. While a hassle to deal with, there are many great deals on older 3-phase industrial equipment as the market for them is smaller and the economy has been putting many small machine shops out of businees right now.


You should also be aware that machine tools and machining can ofter become a hobby/addiction unto itself. I started with an Atlas 618 some 30 years ago - I currently have 5 lathes - the largest is a 16" South Bend with 57" between centers - footprint is 40" x 106" and it must weigh around 2,700#. But even it is dwarfed by the monster I'll be getting in another week. I also have three milling machines, a surface grinder, saws, etc. Why you ask - 1.6" live steam.


If you have any specific questions about older American cast iron lathes, fire away and I'll try my best to answer them.

Brian


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I've long been longing for a lathe to do metal work. The Taig link, given by Harvey, got me thinking the lathe can finally be in an affordable price range (but then I scanned the list of add ons and they really add up!). 

I've got a really dumb question. Can a metal cutting lathe be used to turn wood? I know that the visa versa of that would be "no."


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I do some wood turning on my Taig. It just needs a tool rest and maybe a spur drive. 
It's much too small for furniture work but is fine for model work. 

Harvey C.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks, I only need them for model work. Interesting site!


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris, 

I will add to those happy with Sherline lathes for hobby work. Mine has paid for itself many times building things, fixing toys etc. etc. I have the vertical milling column which lets me convert it to a mill or drill press in less than a minute. As Dwight said, the support and accessories are excellent. 

That being said, as a rule of thumb, if you think the average size of material you will be working on would be about 1" diameter or less, mainly using brass, then the Sherline will work great for you. If you do go with Sherline, I would strongly suggest the long bed model so you have room to work and use longer drills etc. 

If you think the average size will be in the 2-3" diameter range most of the time then the Southbend is the way to go. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Could I ask a piece of advice? I need to seriously work over some of my locos. The gauge is way off, and the flange thicknesses are like toys. 

So, I will want to be turning these wheels down, one side of the flange or the other, plus reducing the depth of flanges in certain cases. 

Would I be overtaxing the Sherline? Wheel diameter max pretty close to 2" in cases. (Also haven't figured how to chuck a wheel and still turn it, does not seem that a 4 jaw chuck on a tapered tread is a good idea). 

Thanks, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg, 

I have turned my friends' Aristo Pacific wheels on my Sherline before. That is about the largest wheel diameter you can swing on a Sherline. I was thinning down their 'square' flange, shaving off bad pitting on the old style castings etc., with no problems at all. I doubt you will ever run short of power on the Sherline--their variable speed motor is incredibly powerful. The big trick is to figure out how to hold the wheel, as you alluded to, so you don't get vibration etc. 
If they are spoked, sometimes you can reverse the chuck jaws and push 'out' from the back (flange side) of the wheel. You have to use sharp tools, take light cuts, and be patient. Many times a small lathe can do what a larger lathe can do, but it just takes more patience and ingenuity in order to do it. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Man, that is EXACTLY the drivers I need to work on and EXACTLY the problem I see. At the risk of derailing the thread, could you explain the mounting method? 

I understand reversing the jaws, like you would put them inside a cylinder, but are you saying there might be enough "flange" "outboard" of the center part of the wheel to get purchase? 

much thanks, 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg, 

What a coincidence eh? Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of that particular setup to help you. 
I originally shaved down the flanges because his loco kept trying to 'climb' the rail in tight corners because of that ridiculous wide and square flange. 
I can't remember whether I was using the three jaw or four jaw chuck (but I think the independant 4 jaw), but there is indeed just enough room to grab it from the back and inside of the wheel. There is typically a bit of hard plating on the outside, but once you're through that their wheels are soft and grabby due to the nature of the casting material. On the Sherline you can swivel the headstock on the bed to cut tapers, so you just have to measure the flange angle, set the headstock and then you can make a 'straight-in' cut using the cutting tool on the cross slide. Hope that makes sense! I think at the time I used a carbide cutting tool and that it worked better than HSS. 
Another way you might be able to hold the wheel would be to make up a threaded, tapered mandrel that would fit the Aristo axle taper. Then you could hold the mandrel in the chuck, press on the wheel and tighten it up, making sure the back of the flange was against the front of the chuck as bracing. Because of the large 'moment' the cutting tool would have on the tiny taper, you would have to take very light cuts doing it that way. 

Keith 

P.S. Just remembered it was the 4-jaw chuck I was using, because clearances were so absolutely tight that the outside of the jaws would actually touch the bed unless it was perfectly centered!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great help Keith! 

Yes, when I get proficient (ha ha, ok knock it off!), ok, if I get proficient, I would definitely make a mandrel, so I could also ensure the wheels ran true. One of the major problems, in my opinion, with the Aristo setup is the poor fit between the axle and the wheel, and runout. It seems the half axle is cast, not cnc machined, or maybe just irregular plating. 

I would think that's the largest wheel I would ever do, so the Sherline might just be the ticket for me. 

Regards, greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

One of the major problems, in my opinion, with the Aristo setup is the poor fit between the axle and the wheel, and runout.


One of many, Greg, one of many! Ha ha! 

Yes I still can't believe an engineer actually thought that tiny non-Morse taper would keep those large diameter wheels from turning on the axle... but I'm sure Kaptain Kool-aid would tell you it had "thousands" of hours of testing and a keyway isn't necessary!  

I am sure you will like the Sherline Greg, and I can confirm it is capable of fixing the Aristo wheels, making new gears for the Aristo Pacific drivetrain, making new brass siderods for the Aristo Pacific and and and.... LOL 

Keith


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg and Keith - You can buy "riser blocks" from Sherline to allow for turning larger material. In this case you'd need one for the *Lathe headstock riser block kit with riser tool post, P/N 1291*. 

http://www.sherline.com/1290inst.htm 

A tailstock riser block is also available. 

Generally speaking, for cutting/turning angles, the Coumpound Slide (P/N 1270) is (to me) easier than rotating the headstock (although I think no riser block is available for it).


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Good point, Dwight--I'd forgotten they make those risers! 
I have one of the compound slides and although I find it quick and easy just to rotate the headstock, there are times that won't work because it puts the work piece too far away, and you need the compound slide. 

Keith


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04/27/2009 11:21 AM
Great help Keith! 

Yes, when I get proficient (ha ha, ok knock it off!), ok, if I get proficient, I would definitely make a mandrel, so I could also ensure the wheels ran true. One of the major problems, in my opinion, with the Aristo setup is the poor fit between the axle and the wheel, and runout. It seems the half axle is cast, not cnc machined, or maybe just irregular plating. 

I would think that's the largest wheel I would ever do, so the Sherline might just be the ticket for me. 

Regards, greg

Greg: A mandrel is absolutely the way to go for wheels. They are not difficult to make. This one is a piece of steel rod glued into a brass bar with loctite. 










On this mandrel the center rod only serves to hold the wheel while screws thru the spokes secure it. These drivers are brass fabrications. 











Or you can die a thread over the centering rod and fix the wheel with a nut. That nut is the head off an old bolt, faced, drilled and tapped. Gives a lot of gripping support. These wheels are steel bar stock











They turned out very nice. The counter weights are soft soldered.










If the axles are not too good, it's not much more work to change them out too. Use a high quality, free machining stainless steel.











And then press your new axles and re-worked wheels right home. 










While you are in there, change out those crappy plastic gears too and whatever they use for main bearings. There is no reason why us Gauge 1 drivers can't "go the the show" with a bored, stroked, pimped ride like the hot-rodders.


Let's get with the chips.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Boy oh boy, that looks like a lot of fun. When I worked for Hewlett Packard, they had an "engineers playpen" with mill, lathe, presses, shear, etc. for making prototypes of ideas. We had a full machine shop, plating facility, circuit board fab, etc. 

But we could not use any of the equipment, even in the engineers playpen, until we completed a basic course under the tutelage of a master machinist. These guys were all experts. Man, they could make anything. 

I hope I remember enough to not mill my fingers off! 

Now I need to find where to buy the Sherline... 

Regards, Greg


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04/27/2009 3:02 PM
Boy oh boy, that looks like a lot of fun. When I worked for Hewlett Packard, they had an "engineers playpen" with mill, lathe, presses, shear, etc. for making prototypes of ideas. We had a full machine shop, plating facility, circuit board fab, etc. 

But we could not use any of the equipment, even in the engineers playpen, until we completed a basic course under the tutelage of a master machinist. These guys were all experts. Man, they could make anything. 

I hope I remember enough to not mill my fingers off! 

Now I need to find where to buy the Sherline... 

Regards, Greg

I would recommend getting a book by Kozo Hiraoka. His Climax book is excellent as is the New Shay book. The Pennsy Switcher Book is probably an excellent book too, if it is anything like the series he ran in Live Steam a few years back. Even if you don't build one of his engines, he's a great read. Pretty much everything I know came from Kozo and practice.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Now I need to find where to buy the Sherline...
I bought mine direct, but that was the only way to buy it fully CNC ready. Just do a Google search for Sherline and several dealers will pop up.  

I agree with Bob on Kozo's books btw. Lots of valuable machining info and techniques in them.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Dwight et al, 

There is a compound slide riser block #1272... 

If anyone is interested I have at least one Sherline lathe, Sherline mill and Proxxon mini mill I'd consider selling compete with tooling and accessories. I have replaced my original equipment with CNC stuff. 

eBay is a great resouce for Sherline products. 

Michael


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04/27/2009 10:41 AM
Man, that is EXACTLY the drivers I need to work on and EXACTLY the problem I see. At the risk of derailing the thread, could you explain the mounting method? 

I understand reversing the jaws, like you would put them inside a cylinder, but are you saying there might be enough "flange" "outboard" of the center part of the wheel to get purchase? 

much thanks, 

Regards, Greg






Hehe. That locomotive must be notorious for those drivers!  Too bad nobody is doing an aftermarket fix!



I keep thinking I'd like to get a mill, or a lathe, or both. But, I'm afraid that I might not have the skill or patience to use it. I keep looking for some local classes to go to, in order to sample the waters, but I keep coming up empty.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can say that again! ha ha! 

Watch it, I'm the only "basher" here!!! 

Michael, would you email me with what you want for them? [email protected] 

Regards, Greg


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, I turn RJ's wheels on a 12X39 lathe. I can send you pictures of how ZI use my self centering three jaw chuck to hold them.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Barry, love to see pictures... in fact, if I get a lathe right away, drive down from Palmdale or wherever you are (I know you are hiding somewhere in california!) and let's start the lessons! 

By the way, a 12x39 lathe means to me, guessing, 12" swing, and 39 inch "long" type of deal. Is that right? 

Regards, Greg


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04/27/2009 7:30 PM
Barry, love to see pictures... in fact, if I get a lathe right away, drive down from Palmdale or wherever you are (I know you are hiding somewhere in california!) and let's start the lessons! 

By the way, a 12x39 lathe means to me, guessing, 12" swing, and 39 inch "long" type of deal. Is that right? 

Regards, Greg

Wow, you are a fast learner.







Now I got to see if I can find some pictures







and yes I am in Palmdale again and if you get a lathe and I am still here I wll come down and help you set it up


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg - I don't know what you are considering, but make sure if possible you check the backlash on any unit you get. As I think was said before in this thread, quality varies enormously on such machines made in Asia - some are good and some not so good. Backlash is one indicator, and it's far more difficult (though not impossible) to do precision work on a unit with lots of backlash. 

(Backlash = how far you need to turn the handwheel before the tool actually starts to move)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I was going to consider a cheaper one, but I want to buy a quality one since I'm not a great machinist... Ther Sherline name has been around for a while. I learned the backlash thing the first day of my training class on the lathe. We were taught to always come to a measurement from the same direction, back of, and come back to it... there has to always be some backlash, I was told... 

Hope it was the right advice.... 

Regards, Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

there has to always be some backlash, I was told...
That's true, but there's backlash, and then there's BACKLASH!!! hehehe Sherline has a backlash adjustment nut on each lead screw allowing you to minimize it. Mine required no adjustment out of the box. Besides, you don't want to have to completely go over and fix a brand new machine, right?


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Machine tools of the quality/price range for hobbyists will have some backlash in the leadscrew/nut assemblies.As Dwight mentioned, better ones have an adjustment. High-end equipment overcomes that with precision ball screws, at a price far beyond this thread. Whatever you decide, make sure of the availability of repair parts. A reputable dealer will offer this service, if needed. 

Larry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It turns out Sherline is made about 4 miles from my house, I think I will go visit them. 

Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I will go visit them. 
If you do, say "hello" to Fred for me. He's their CNC support guy. 


When Larry Bangham was selling parts for his whistles, I bought parts for one, which I had to assemble/solder. The only thing I needed to make was a "centering tool" that held the whistle proper centered and set the aperture gap while the parts were silver-brazed together. The only lathe I had at the time was a small Unimat that had quite a bit of backlash, and this was the first close-tolerance work I'd ever really done on it. While I managed to make the part, it was a lot harder than it should have been.

Just a personal experience to illustrate why I think backlash is important.  I'll sell the Unimat if anyone wants it.


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Chris,

In your shoes I would seriously either a 7X12 mini-lathe or a 9X20 chinese lathe. Grizzly is the brand that comes to mind first but there are others. I use these for patternmaking and making tooling and they are useful machines for the price.

I have a Grizz mini-lathe and use it a lot and it is a lot of bang for the buck. It's nice to be able to easily lift and move the mini-lathe. My biggest gripe with the mini-lathe is the lousy tailstock but I have learned to live with it. A major plus is the variable speed and reverse. The unorthodox method of attaching the chuck works very well but can be frustrating until you get used to it. For smaller model engineering work all you need to add is a 4 jaw chuck, a decent tool post, and some bits. I have also added a collet closer and a home made rear tool post which are handy!

I also have an Enco 9X20 and like it even more. The tail stock is a big improvement but the tool post really needs to be replaced with an aloris type. I wish this one had variable speed.

I have seen the Taige and Sherline and though they are OK I prefer the iron on the Mini-Lathe. Of the Taige and Sherline I prefer the Taige.

Buying a South Bend or similar lathe used is a tough one since most that I have seen recently are worn out and tough to get parts for in some cases. My favorite lathe in the 9-10" range is a Logan or Logan-Powermatic which parts are readily available for. The logan has nice power feeds and hardened ways.

My dream lathe would be a Hardinge HLVH or TBF but that isn't in your or my budget!

My three cents!

Jack


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

"My dream lathe would be a Hardinge HLVH or TBF but that isn't in your or my budget!" 

Well Jack if you can have a dream lathe, so can I: 

http://levinlathe.com/menu.htm 

Keith


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Keith, 

I've watched Levin lathes on eBay and have the current catalog! They are quite reasonable on eBay but have very limited capabilities. They are exquisitely built and the version with turret, lever cross slide, and 3C is sweet. 

Main thing to watch for is one with S/N above 10,000. Earlier models have bearings that are not readily available and Levin wants about $3000 to re-bearing. Yikes! 

I suppose we could have a major discussion on dream tools!!!! Oh well, back to making chips on reality lathes! 

Jack


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Chris,

Many have advised a used US lathe. I'd give some careful thought to that, before I put my money down, because you don't know how worn they might be. While the paint's a fair indicator, there's such a thing as wear spots on the bedways, especially in a machine used in production areas, or not well taken care of.

You really need to check the headstock bearings and tailstock alignment. To do that requires a dial indicator and knowledge of what you're looking for. Also, you want to ask if you can run a 'check piece'. That's a round length of bar stock as close to the length of the bed as you can get. Mount it, make a cut near the headstock, make an equal-depth cut in the midst thereof, and one down near the tailstock. Now get your micrometer out and measure those three cuts. They should be dead on the money equal in diameter, or you've got problems, possibly minor, maybe not.

The little Craftsman lathes are known to have sprung beds, where the operator forces too large a cut and the tool digs in and tucks under the work, springing the bedway. You can't tell it without some careful measuring and fooling around, because they 'spring back' and look okay, but give under pressure in that area forever after.

Don't get your shorts in a knot over accuracy. What most folks talk about when they say accuracy is, they dial in .006" and they expect to find that much material removed. As well they should. But if they come up with something else, the big question is, is it repeatable? Likely not, but if you know this, you can 'sneak up' on your final cut, making it very light, or use crocus cloth. I did that with a wore-out South Bend at MAC for a number of years before they got me a new one. Accuracy in the machine gives the operator the ability to make more than a one-off part of the same dimensions. Howsumever, a skilled operator who knows the weaknesses of his machine can do the same, it just takes more effort.

I own a little Atlas that I haven't turned on in probably 20 years. I'm going to let my son have it. I bought a little Buffalo last winter and still haven't set it up, had a bad year. But I'm prepared to live with the bugs in the little Chinese machine because it's cheap and I believe I can make it do all I want. The biggest mistake you'll encounter on the sites that have been mentioned is the plans to install a larger chuck. Don't do that. There's not enough iron in those machines to carry anything larger than what they come with. You put a big chuck on, and try turning a big piece, the frame and ways will flex and writhe, you're liable to get tool chatter and not be able to figure out why, (especially doing boring operations) and it's plain not worth it. Decide up front, "Do I want a model lathe, or do I want a GP shop lathe?" Then buy accordingly.

Get yourself a copy of the South Bend 'How to Run a Lathe'. They used to be on Ebay. That is all the 'education' I ever had on running a lathe, and did very well for myself. I do not like 'readouts', of the electrical type. I was machining when they were introduced, and the damned things always flake out just when it can do the most harm. Mount dial indicators to your compound and cross slide and use them, especially if you elect for a Chinese one, because they have metric feed threads. (You can buy SAE threads from Micro Mark if you want.)

I've heard nothing but good about Taig and Sherline. To me, those aluminum headstock castings look suspiciously light. And as someone pointed out, the add-ons 'add-up' at an alarming rate.

I'm very tired, hope I made sense. Just, don't be afraid of a Chinese lathe. I like the looks of mine--never had it on, mind you--well enough that I'm saving for a MicroMark mill probably next year. Was going to be this summer. (I got sick, wife got sick, and I guess if we had a dog, that thing would be croaked.) The biggest mistake I hear is, people buy 'em, shake 'em out of the box, plug 'em in and chuck up a piece of metal and go at it. And squall when everything's off. You have to take a new machine like that down, clean and grease it, file burrs, polish out rough spots where needed, pick out dead bodies and whatnot, and put it all back together. THEN try to use it. Then, get a feel for it.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 04/27/2009 8:07 PM
Greg - I don't know what you are considering, but make sure if possible you check the backlash on any unit you get. As I think was said before in this thread, quality varies enormously on such machines made in Asia - some are good and some not so good. Backlash is one indicator, and it's far more difficult (though not impossible) to do precision work on a unit with lots of backlash. 

(Backlash = how far you need to turn the handwheel before the tool actually starts to move)








Dwight:

Backlash is easily overcome: once you know you've got it, you learn to automatically crank the handwheel 'out' a full turn extra. Then you put your tool bit just a teensy bit away from the workpiece and turn the handwheel 'in'. The first clue you'll have the slack is all taken out is a tiny little piece of metal will come off the workpiece. Or, keep the tool bit away, and press in with your hand on the handwheel until all the slack is taken up. You'll still want to start the cut carefully, noting the reading on the dial.

I ran a seriously wore-out South Bend at MAC for a few years, until they got me a new one.

Im tired, hope that makes sense. Oh, I've been meaning to tell you: the easiest way to make sure your tool point is on the centerline of a piece is to stick your machinist's pocket scale between it and the work. If the scale doesn't stand up vertical, adjust the tool point position until it does.

Les--on the way to bed.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Just got a flyer in the mail from Grizzly. They have free shipping on the 9 x 20 lathe (among others) "Household 6" (wife) authorized funds for same. Seriously thinking about "pulling the trigger".

My trusty Atlas 6" will continue to occupy center stage in the shop. Even with its sprung bed, worn ways, loose gibs, mis-aligned tailstock, spindle run-out and backlash in all directions, she still shaves 0.0003" (3 ten-thousands) on a regular basis. Of course, only after adjustments with a wood mallet, findling with the rocker style tool post, a few practice cuts before "going final" and running the HHS bits over an 8000 grit waterstone. 


The "dream Lathe" would be a Myford ML-7.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

the easiest way to make sure your tool point is on the centerline of a piece is to stick your machinist's pocket scale between it and the work. If the scale doesn't stand up vertical, adjust the tool point position until it does.
Can you elaborate on that a bit? Is this done with the work turning or does one turn it by hand? Sorry, but I can't visualize what you are saying.


As for backlash, I know it can be worked around - I'd just prefer not to have to, especially on a brand new machine, and especially if other choices are available. 
You have to take a new machine like that down, clean and grease it, file burrs, polish out rough spots where needed, pick out dead bodies and whatnot, and put it all back together. THEN try to use it.
That would be a lot easier if I were an experienced machinist who knew my way around the innards of the machine.







It's like me telling someone they need to disinfect their computer virus by going in and manually editing the Windows Registry... easy if you know how, potentially catastrophic if you don't.


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## gilv (Mar 31, 2009)

Dwight 

Did you build the brass loco on your signature block? If so did you use your Sherline to runt the body (boiler?) sorry I am new to this and don't quite know all the terms yet. 

The reason I ask is because I have a 1:24 scale HLW 4-4-0 loco but I fell in love with PNG drop bottom gondola in narrow gauge 1:20.3 scale. So I decided do re-do my railroad on a 1:20.3 scale. So I would like to scale-up the HLW loco. I can buy a 1:20 scale cab but would like to buy a lathe to build the body. So I wonder if it can be done on a Sherline. One of the attractions of the Sherline is that I don't wish to transform my workshop into a machine shope. So I like the idea of being able to store away the lathe.


Gil V.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dwight, on the centerline testing, if the tool is truly touching the workpiece at the centerline, then if you place a flat piece of metal between the work and the tool tip, the pressure should be exactly horizontal, and the ruler should not deflect from the vertical, i.e. the pressure has not vertical components. 

If you were above centerline the tool would be pushing the top part of the ruler closer to the centerline of the lathe and the top of the rule would go that way, and the bottom out. 

Interesting tip, I had never heard it before, but it really makes sense. 

Regards, Greg


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 04/29/2009 11:02 PM

the easiest way to make sure your tool point is on the centerline of a piece is to stick your machinist's pocket scale between it and the work. If the scale doesn't stand up vertical, adjust the tool point position until it does.
Can you elaborate on that a bit? Is this done with the work turning or does one turn it by hand? Sorry, but I can't visualize what you are saying.

/// My apologies-- I shouldn't ever post at that hour of the night. Okay, your machine is turned off, the workpiece is mounted, ready to go. So is the tool in the toolpost. I'm used to rocker tool posts, but my Chinee one has the old square type, which might or might not need shimming, depending upon the size of the bit installed. (You shim the tool bit.) Okay, you're standing there looking down on the almost-ready-to-go project. You have your 6" scale in hand. You place the scale between the point of the toolbit and the outer circumference of the workpiece, and crank in just enough pressure to hold that scale in place. Then you move your head such that you can see if the scale is standing upright and vertical, with reference to the bedways. (A common carpenter's square the first time will give you a 'local vertical', that is, identify the 'normal' axis to the bedway axis.) In other words, the bedways are flat--the point from which you reference. By 'vertical', or 'normal', I mean the line that you have when you place a square on those (clean) bedways. It's sticking up. You just note whether your scale is also 'sticking up' parallel to the upright vertical plane you've defined by using a square. You only have to do it once or twice, and your machinist's eye will forever after remember. It's a good idea to _always_ check that before starting work. If this is not clear, I'll post a picture. (I know how to that now.)









As for backlash, I know it can be worked around - I'd just prefer not to have to, especially on a brand new machine, and especially if other choices are available.







" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/smile.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />

Well ... yes. We all would. But $$ rear their ugly heads, so we grin and bear it. I've already noted that my Chinee lathe's leadscrew slops left/right to an alarming (to me) degree. The fix I have in mind for that is to machine out retainer to cram it one way or the other, and hold it there. 

You have to take a new machine like that down, clean and grease it, file burrs, polish out rough spots where needed, pick out dead bodies and whatnot, and put it all back together. THEN try to use it.

That would be a lot easier if I were an experienced machinist who knew my way around the innards of the machine.







It's like me telling someone they need to disinfect their computer virus by going in and manually editing the Windows Registry... easy if you know how, potentially catastrophic if you don't.









/// Eeeehhh... that's a bad analogy, because you can actually see what you're doing with a machine. A computer is a secretive, obscenely devious device wherewith one can only tell the results of one's effort by reading the plethora of failure screens, none of which is written using English like used to be taught in school. And few of which are explained in the '?' lookup (F1).









Now, an excellent way to become and experienced machinist is to actually do machine work. Those sites that were mentioned, and there's another one filled with class A machinists who welcome noobs. I forget the website, but I can get it for you. I'm given to understand there's an English site for model RRing where a great deal of machine work is the norm, and well-described. What you get from that is hobby-specific info.

Also, there's some posts on truing Accucraft (?) wheels, where some kind soul posted the setup and use of mandrels to hold small parts. He did better than many recognize, I suspect, because you'll eventually have a whole small drawerful of these mandrels that you make for a given purpose. It's usually the case that one mandrel gets modified for the next job, but if you see a repetitive job coming up, you save the first one.

If there's any interest, when I start to tear my Chinese lathe down and check it out, I could post progress pixes and explanations of why I did what I did (except for the ones that make me look stupid.) No, I'll include those too. Nothing like learning from someone else's mistake.

I hope I made myself clearer this morning. Oh, another name for a mandrel is a 'fixture', which is a fancy general term for something made to hold something else for machining. Of all the examples the gentleman showed, I personally prefer the steel one with the bolt head for holding wheels. The more force you can spread out over your workpiece, the less likely you are to have the thing come apart while you're cutting on it.

Post me if you have further questions.

Les


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Les, 
That's a great center-line tip! Wish I had know it way back when.... very simple and for those of us with a cock-eyed view can be checked with a machinist square.


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## daveb (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all, 
Last year the urge to build a loco instead of spending on factory build took over my life in model steam railroading. The final decision was made after spending some time with Paul Huntington(see steam thread). So, cancelled an order with Accucraft and bought a Grizzly Mill(463) and Lathe(4000) even though I have never used a mill or a lathe. Should say the Kozo New Shay book helped in the decision process and that is what I am building. So far the frame is done and have started to use the lathe on the trucks. Learnt very quickly about backlash. Les is right, it is easily overcome and was not a problem working with the mill. My understanding is that backlash is eliminated if you go to DRO. Thats for the future. For those comtemplating DIY, Kozo's books are great, a real must. Also there is an on line course, about 5 or 6 hours at MITtech tv. It takes you through the basics of running a mill and a lathe. It was developed for MIT students in ther robotics course. Great for beginners. 
Les, how do you use a dial indicator on the lathe? I know how to check runout but what else do you use it for? 

Dave Barker 
Bow NH


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Total,

That's an old trick some old machinist showed me. Glad I could be of help.

Les


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## 78ths (Mar 22, 2009)

Hi Les 
Really good advice on the lathes. I had researched a few years back when I bought my lathe and milling machines and talking with guys at our large scale club (all machinists some in aerospace) and the new lathes coming out of china can be very accurate and for price are very productive beside the Brdigeports. I picked up a 12X36 gearhead (so I can turn up to 9" wheels) and have one very large milling machine and a mini mill that I am in the process of CNC'ing. I have owned a sherline, unimat and taig in both lathe and milling machines and they are nice and precise when it comes to small parts and preferrably not steel (ferrous metals mainly). However a lot of G scale parts exceed their limitations especially when it comes to cylinders etc.. As you said buy to what your needs are. If you are turning small wheeels and detail parts a sherline, or mini lathe however once you get into the bigger items you need a heftier machine. The mills too need larger beds so you can mill frames wihtout having to move the part during milling (that creates headaches no one enjoys.) My big problem is finding a small 3 and 4 jaw chuck that will fit muy lathe. My current chucks are 9" and will only hold parts as small as 0.25". I did find some small chucks that fit and am not happy about paying 4 - 600.00 $ each.









The world of turning metal is fun and can be intimidating at first, take your time and check everything at least twice before you hit the power switch. I leave the machines well enough alone when I am tired. I like my body parts in their current configuration. 

cheers Ferd


Will have to try the center line tip on my lathe see if it holds true on a chunk of 36" bar stock.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By daveb on 04/30/2009 8:17 AM
Hi all, 
Last year the urge to build a loco instead of spending on factory build took over my life in model steam railroading. 


/// A man after my own heart.


The final decision was made after spending some time with Paul Huntington(see steam thread). So, cancelled an order with Accucraft and bought a Grizzly Mill(463) and Lathe(4000) even though I have never used a mill or a lathe.


/// A man with much more money than I.










Les is right, it is easily overcome and was not a problem working with the mill. My understanding is that backlash is eliminated if you go to DRO. Thats for the future.

/// Uhhh ... I've already said that I loathe DRO's. I think it's probably an age problem--go with what you know. And DRO's were flaky when they first came out. I will stick my neck out and say that I wouldn't want to rely on DRO's to compensate for backlash. They well might, and then, they might not, depending upon which way the 'lash works, and whether you're doing a very complicated cut, like with varying dims.

/// Another thing to consider is, dial indicators are less expensive (I think) than DRO's & require no batteries and WYSIWYG. (what you see is what you get.) DRO's have a nasty habit of skipping, and in MHO, don't really add much to a non-production environment. i.e., hobby work.


For those comtemplating DIY, Kozo's books are great, a real must. Also there is an on line course, about 5 or 6 hours at MITtech tv. It takes you through the basics of running a mill and a lathe. It was developed for MIT students in ther robotics course. Great for beginners. 

/// A class like you describe sounds excellent. If it's affordable. If not, a subscription to that English RRing mag that is heavily into machining is a better buy, in my NSHO. Now, I admit to a bias against 'taking a class' to learn how to do something. But I happen to be one of those individuals who can teach myself, once I have the basic principles of what I'm doing, in mind. See my posts over where JJ's trying to learn to weld.

Les, how do you use a dial indicator on the lathe? I know how to check runout but what else do you use it for? 

//// A dial indicator has so many uses besides the one you specified. The commonest one is, you set up a long-reach dial indicator on the bed of your lathe. Yes, you make brackets and drill and tap holes to get it there. Now, you arrange it such that you can measure the travel of your compound as you cut. It's great for 'stepping' diameters, for one, where each has to be a specific length. By the same reasoning, you can mount one on your cross slide so that you can monitor your infeed. I'm going to do that with my Chinee lathe, because it has metric leadscrews and I don't want to do math as I machine. And my leadscrews have slop, fresh from the factory. Perhaps I can fix that when I set it up.

/// I forgot to mention, the best setups I've seen allow the operator to disengage the dial indicator for routine cuts. The one I had at work was a lame setup where I had to dismount the indicator from the mounts via a 'gob' (allen) screw. (I dote on the English terms for some of this stuff.)









Les

Dave Barker 
Bow NH


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Ferd,

Well, thank you for the kind words. All I am is an old tool & die maker from an aerospace (Black Hole) XP environment. (Not production). I try to label my biases clearly. And when I don't know--or more likely can't remember--I say, "I don't know." Saves trouble.

The one cautionary I'd like to present for consideration is that one has to weigh the giver of advice. There are gentlemen who can afford the best, and have no patience with second-rate quality. Were I so fixed, I would likely be the same way. I come at the issue with a poor man's perspective. I have seen amazing things done by people who never graduted the eighth grade. "Common sense" is sometimes used to mean 'sharp insight'.

There's a 'feel' in metalworking, just as there's a 'feel' in fine cabinetry--I will never be a fine cabinet maker. Because I don't care enough about it. And I lack that sense of 'feel' required.

Okay, on trying the centerline method on a piece of rough bar stock: you need to be sure you're not parking your scale over a rough spot, depending on how the bar was manufactured. The obvious workaround for a rough, cobby bar is to eyeball the tool and make a roughing cut, then set the tool.

And, Amen to your cautionary re being tired and using machine tools!


Old Guy Story: I never caught my fingers in a rotating tool bit, but early on I got in the habit of mounting the mill bit first, and doing setup around it. For space relational issues. On a number of occasions, while setting up, I have sliced the crap out of my hands on one of those razor-sharp flutes. That's a personal failing.

Les


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## daveb (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Les, 

I wish I had a lot of money. Thanks for the advise on the DRO. I'm not having a lot of trouble so its not a problem without. The MIT course is free. It consists of 10 parts on mill and lathe. They are videos. The site is http://techtv.mit.edu/ when you get there do search on Machining. Takes you to menu of videos. It serves well for beginner. 

Again thanks for info. 

Dave Barker 
Bow NH


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Great tip Les - thanks! (and thanks to Greg for the explanation as well). Now that I can visualize it, it makes perfect sense. Those are the kinds of little tidbits one never finds in a book Les, and one of the many reasons I find your contributions so valuable.  
My understanding is that backlash is eliminated if you go to DRO.
That would depend upon where the encoded is located. If it's attached to the handwheel/leadscrew and not the moving table/saddle/whatever, a DRO won't make any difference.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave

Maybe the following will save some time.

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 1*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 2*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 3*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 4*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 5*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 6*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 7*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 8*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 9*

*MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 10*


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## daveb (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, 
Thanks thats a great help. Wish I knew how to do that. 

Dave Barker 
Bow NH


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By daveb on 04/30/2009 10:57 AM
Steve, 
Thanks thats a great help. Wish I knew how to do that. 

Dave Barker 
Bow NH
Dave

Being as you're 1st Class member, it's not difficult to do...
[*] Using the Full Rich-text Editor (i.e. not the Quick Reply editor).
[*] Type the text that you want to display for the URL link (e.g. MIT TechTV - Machine Shop 1).
[*] Select that text (i.e. using the mouse or keyboard).
[*] Click the Insert Hyperlink[/i] button in the tool-bar (i.e.







)
[*] Copy and paste the URL address into the URL:[/i] text field on Insert Hyperlink dialog.
[*] Click the OK[/i] button, and you're done.
[/list] To create additional links just repeat the above process.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bob,

I refer to my wife as 'Buscuit Control'. 

Les


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## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

I mentioned this before But I have a Jet 9 x 20 I would like to move to a good home. I have done a few things to help it, if you e-mail me or send a message we can kick the can. I bought a Southbend fourteen and don't really need this one anymore. I'm not out to poke anyone in the eye, I was thinking 550.00 it has a quick change tool post. I'm in E. KY but am working in the Erie PA area and could meet someone in that area. 

Johnny


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 04/30/2009 6:37 PM
Bob,

I refer to my wife as 'Buscuit Control'. 

Les


Free shipping was the clincher. Of course Grizzly's 12 x 24 has free shipping too, but I don't think the same argument will work. I don't understand why not, it's just the way it is.


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, those MIT Machine Tool videos are *FANTASTIC!! *







(I just watched the first 2 of the series in a row, bookmarked the remainder for future viewing). Thanks *very much *for posting the links to them!







(At the moment, my "machine shop"







consists of a small bench drill press, bench grinder, & assorted small tools - a small lathe of some sort is on the shopping list for the future).









*Tom*


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## Mike O (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, 

There is all kinds of useful information on this thread. You might want to consider making it a "sticky". 

Mike


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Good idea Mike.


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## daveb (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, thanks for the instructions on the Hyper link. Sounds pretty easy. 

Dave Barker 
Bow NH


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## Mickeyls (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anyone have any comments on the MicroMark lathe ??


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mickeyls on 05/11/2009 10:40 AM
Does anyone have any commments on the MicroMark Lathe ??








Mic,

I have some very restricted comments.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mickeyls on 05/11/2009 10:40 AM
Does anyone have any commments on the MicroMark Lathe ??










Mic,

Now that the board seems to be working, my comments are coming from the fact I bought one in a warehouse sale (NOT Micromark's, but the same lathe.)

In short, I like mine, overall. I have not yet finished cleaning and setting it up. I see mine has some slop in the leadscrew that I'll have to take up. That's the only flaw I've found so far, save for some ragged-edged castings. Had I not found this one for $239 new on Craig's List, I would've gone with the MicroM because 1) it offers Imperial (SAE) (American) threads in the leadscrew and infeed screw, which make life slightly simpler. 2) MicroM sells about everything you need, and lots you don't but would be nice to have, for it. 3) MicroM also sells a mini mill, and the drawbar and collets are interchangeable between the two machines. 4) Again, with the mill as with the lathe, they sell everything you need to add on and lots you don't, which I find very handy. If you don't like their relatively high prices for the 'small stuff', there are two websites that offer the same-function articles for a little less money, when I checked last. But shipping ought to figure in, here. I didn't check that. I think that, for the basic machine (including extra-cost SAE pitch screws) their prices are about as good as you're going to find, unless you get lucky, like I did.

In my not-so-inexperience opinion, I believe the lathe--providing it's the 7 x 10 like mine, is a good deal for the price, and beats taking a chance on some worn-out, ancient US lathe.

It's your money, your choice.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 04/30/2009 10:32 AM
Great tip Les - thanks! (and thanks to Greg for the explanation as well). Now that I can visualize it, it makes perfect sense. Those are the kinds of little tidbits one never finds in a book Les, and one of the many reasons I find your contributions so valuable. " src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/smile.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" /> 


/// Indeed, thank Greg for his more lucid explanation. What I perhaps overly focused on was getting newbies to think of the lathe's bedways as 0,0 X, Y, in a three axis system, Z being the height of the center of the axis of rotation of the chuck above these ways. If you have that in mind, a lot of problematic errors become avoidable.


/// Since I've circled around to this old post, another thought has occurred to me, an old technique: Take an acid brush and cut the bristles back a 'tad'. To make 'em stiffer, but not so much so they won't hold cutting oil. Then get a wide-mouthed can to put the cutting oil in. Only fill it about 1/4" deep, as you'll have less to clean up _when_ you spill it, and you will. Now, as you're machining along, you dip the brush and dab it on the moving part ahead of (and on) the tool bit. It helps dissipate heat, and you can sweep the chips out of the general area. This works for drilling metal, anything of that nature. Extends the life of drill bits muchly.

Les


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mickeyls on 05/11/2009 10:40 AM
Does anyone have any commments on the MicroMark Lathe ??


See my post (3rd entry on page one of this thread) for a link to my comments about this lathe and two other links to web sites about small lathes and a place to purchase accessories, etc.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

anyone know where to get some solid rod, say, 1 or 2 inches, steel or other metal, to use for turning?


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## 78ths (Mar 22, 2009)

For small pieces I use metal supermarket as I can pick it up and not have to deal with shipping. I usually try to get bright mild steel (easy to turn) for axles and other items similar I pick up drill rods to the size I need and finish the ends in the lathe. 

cheers Ferd



http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/


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## imrnjr (Jan 2, 2008)

large steel rod is generally available cut to length at most steel supply houses. I had to go buy 2 34" pieces of 2 1/2" cold rolled for a leased track loader repair about a month ago. It was not cheap at nearly $250 total.

Mark


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

For "Practice" and "small stuff" you can use bolts from the hardware store (or the baby food jars on the shelf in the garage!







.)

You can always turn off any threads to get to smooth metal for what you might want to make.


Most hardware stores sell brass rod of various small diameters and steel rod in slightly larger diameters up to maybe 1/2 or 3/4 inch. 

Other sources of "scrap" metal can be ANYTHING that has metal in it. Old axles from toys, bicycles, trikes, Appliances (washing machines), motors (Gas and Electric)... if it is made of metal, you can always re-purpose the parts instead of putting the whole thing in the city dump!

It is always nice to start with something round as rounding a square piece is a bit hard on the equipment, but don't discount starting with square or hex stock of any sort. (I made a new lever handle for my recliner chair out of a rectangular hunk of aluminium... noisy and slow to remove the corners to make it round but this new handle won't break like that wood grained plastic junk that came on the cheap chair!)

The company I worked for has a "surplus store" where they sell, uh... well, surplus stuff, and there is quite often large chunks of thick aluminium scrap left over from various engineering projects. Their "store" is sometimes open to the public. Universities, colleges and other schools also sometimes have surplus equipment sales that include scrap metal.

There are several vendors on E-bay that sell scrap metal... not "used" (as in a finished product part) but the ends and "remainders" from a manufacturing process (e.g.: a 36-inch rod is used to make a bunch of 4-inch parts and due to the "curf" in cutting them off, there is a short piece of less than 4 inches leftover that they sell as scrap).


The only problem with re-purposing "scrap" is that you may not know the exact alloy of what you have. This can be a problem if what you are building really needs to be of a specific strength or durability for the purpose you are to put it to, but for many things a good guess of "That is steel, maybe 'stainless'." or "That is a brass of some sort." is good enough. For "practice" or for decorative parts on a toy train, it really doesn't matter much.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I buy most of my metal from either OnlineMetals.com or online from McMaster-Carr.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I second McMaster-Carr and Online Metals. Online Metals sells "cut-offs" (random 10" - 12") for good prices. I have also done business with Metal Express, a good outfit too. 

http://www.metalexpress.net/


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks, they do make some pretty thick bolts, now that I think of it.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 05/12/2009 6:05 AM
anyone know where to get some solid rod, say, 1 or 2 inches, steel or other metal, to use for turning?








SE,

My first choice for nearly everything is garage sales. Flea markets are next. The idea is, you look for something that has the round stock or whatever you need. Don't overlook R/C cars for small dia rnd stk that'll likely be near what you want anyway. And the wheels on some of them, though plastic, need only a lathe and a bit of imagination and lo, a drum for a winch or a flywheel for the end of a machine shaft on the layout.

Flea markets are absolutely crawling with oddball stuff that can be disassembled and fed into your lathe.

If you don't have a 4 jaw chuck, think hard about getting one, because they do have their uses. You can chuck up oddball shapes, turn a tooling lug, then mount your 3-jaw and have fun. Don't take big cuts!

Bolts, as someone has already said, are perfect for lots of jobs. If you get carriage bolts, you'll get a softer grade of steel, which is good. Nails are excellent for smaller diameter work, and the big spike nails for landscaping timbers make for meaty projects.

As for grades of steel, don't get hung up on it. More important is whether it was hot or cold-rolled. One is more brittle than the other, but at this instant of time I can't remember which. Almost any steel you buy today is made from recycled steel, I _think_ it is called 'A3'. That's called structural steel.

You'd do yourself a favor if you learned to estimate the hardness by hitting a piece with a file, and feeling the ease of cut. You can also tell something from holding a piece on a grinder. The amount and color of sparks will tell you a good deal about its hardness. You then remember when you machine the piece, what kind of sparks it threw, and very soon you'll know a lot about grades of steel.

As a rule of thumb, start out with slow revs on your lathe. And, learn to grind your own cutting bits. It isn't hard. Just read the South Bend manual or the like. You can do all sorts of sneaky angles which make the bit cut faster (in one direction--grind a matching pair) which lightens the load on the machine and will make others think you are one cool ace dude when you say, "Oh, I special-ground that tool to do...." 

Les


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Les, I have been fortunate enough to inherit an old South Bend from my Grandfather. I picked up the basics from him as a kid when I helped, or watched him build stationary steam engines. This one has a 9" swing and a 3' bed. I have no idea how to check for wear, alignment, or accuracy. He had it for many years, I wold guess from the 40's or 50's. It has set idle for some time now, and I would like to get it set up, and checked out. What should I be looking for, to get an idea of wear and condition. If worn, is their a solution.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks for the tips! Especially Les. Now that I think of it, a lot of barbells and dumbells are solid steel that could also be used. I have my own gym in the basement but I see used barbells all the time; meaning the barbell bar. 

Re: hardness, this brings back memories from Geology class on Moh's scale. For the intro, the instructor took a penny over to the window and began scratching it. Of course it left no scratch marks.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 05/12/2009 6:11 PM
Les, I have been fortunate enough to inherit an old South Bend from my Grandfather. I picked up the basics from him as a kid when I helped, or watched him build stationary steam engines. This one has a 9" swing and a 3' bed. I have no idea how to check for wear, alignment, or accuracy. He had it for many years, I wold guess from the 40's or 50's. It has set idle for some time now, and I would like to get it set up, and checked out. What should I be looking for, to get an idea of wear and condition. If worn, is their a solution. 

Tree,

/// Wow. That's a large question. But it can broken down into smaller pieces. First, since your grandfather used it, and I'm assuming the steam engines were model or hobby-type. I'll assume it was used for model work. Thus, I bet it's all right as it is. If it has been sitting, you want to get yourself a squirtin' oil can and some 10wt motor oil and oil anything that moves, looks like it should move, or might want to someday. You should also clean it. A can of Kroil is an excellent choice to apply along with the motor oil. Clean with rags that will absorb, not this mixed polyester fabric. Cotton.

Clean the machine. Everywhere. By hand, run the leadscrews to their furtherest extent, oiling/kroiling lavishly. (Put one of wife's old towels under the ways to catch the drip. You're literally flushing the machine's working parts out. Take an acid brush that's been cut back so its stiff, and _clean_ those leadscrews. If you find rust, Kroil it, get some steel wool and make that rust go away. A little pitting won't hurt anything.

Oil the motor with half a dozen drops of oil in the bearing cups. By hand, roll the headstock a few revolutions, feeling for 'sticky spots'. Investigate any, and make that headstock roll as smooth as a cat's fur under hand pressure. If it's belt driven, you might have to get a new belt, or at least dope the old one with some form of leather softener.

Loosen the compound lockdowns and swing all that will move to the limit of their stops, Kroil-oiling to the point of runoff. Flushing, again. Check for smoothness of travel. If you find a glitch, Fix it. Slather oil on the ways and crank the compound by hand back and forth a few trips. Keep oiling until black, cruddy oil stops seeping out from under the compound. Don't forget, there are front and rear ways on that compound, so pay attention the back one.

The oil you put on the ways? Loosen the tailstock and slide it back and forth to free it up. Then tighten it down so it barely slides, with a pound or so of pressure. Walk it up the ways, seeing if there are places where it suddenly gets easier to push. Those are wear spots in the bed and you can't do anything within reason about that. But that's what you want to know, anyway.

Don't worry about apparent 'slop' just now.

Does the machine have a quick-change gearbox? If so, fall on your knees and thank your grandfather. Now look along the top of the gearbox: you'll find a hole that is very often filled with grit. (The one I had at work was plugged during some previous paint job, and the plug was never removed. It took me about a month of dumping oil in that gearbox to free it up. Everyone else said is was too worn to work, including the machine repairmen. This is a good example of why you should learn to 'see' what you're looking at, and incidentally, periodically clean your machines.) Squirt oil into that hole. A lot of it. (That's why you thoughtfully got your wife's second-worst towel when she wasn't looking.) Now, roll the headstock by hand while moving the gearchange levers. If they're fairly free, carry on. But remember to oil 'em every time you use them for awhile, to flush old oil and dirt out. Don't forget the rotation points on the leadscrew. Flush 'em well. Do the same with the jaws in the chuck. Note that one will have a punch mark on it, the second two punchmarks, and the third might be blank or have 3. Then note that on the shell of the chuck there are 1, 2, or 3 (or a blank one) punchmarks. These jaws MUST go back where they belong, or you'll have huge problems later on, what with centering workpieces. These jaws might also be reversible. That means you can chuck up something approaching the diameter of the bottom of a water pail if you need to. Flush that chuck out. If there are no punchmarks, don't take the jaws out.

Open the headstock door in the end, where the gears are. Get some 30wt oil and oil them while rolling the headstock. Be sure to oil the studs on which these gears rotate. Get rags, toothbrushes, whatever, and clean that area up. (No one ever does.) Check for chipped teeth. If you find a missing tooth or badly chipped, in one, well, get another before using the lathe.

Now get ready to turn the thing on. Close all doors, button all cuffs, stand away from the plane of rotation of the chuck, (it might sling oil/Kroil) and turn the machine on. Listen. If it has been sitting, it'll sound rough, but should start to smooth out and quiet down after a few minutes. Check the headstock to see if it's getting warm. It shouldn't. Did you remember to oil it? Search all over that machine for these ball-point closed oiling ports, where you have to force the ball down, and oil. Then oil some more. Do this every time you use the machine. Yes, it's a PIA and messy, but remember, it has been sitting and a little time spent now will save money later. Plus make you familiar with every cranny in that machine.

Post if not clear. I'll try to walk you through chuck runout and tailstock alignment next.

Do you have a copy of the South Bend book yet?

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

SE,

One fast last note: in the world of machining, the Rockwell Hardness Scale is used. 

L


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I can quickly reply, about two items. It does not have the quick change gear box, and I do not have the South Bend book. The rest will take some time, being that I need to build a bench to mount it on. It does have a flat leather belt with a 3 step pulley.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Well said, Les! I appreciate your clarity and thoroughness!

My lathe did not have the jaws pieces marked at all and I do have to remove them to change between inside and outside grip. I was afraid to try to use a punch to mark them as I might deform them due to my general ham-handedness and I doubt if they are all that accurately made to begin with!

When I first removed them I made sure I kept them separated and knew which one came from which slot in the chuck. I placed the jaws next to each other such that I could see the rack teeth on them form a stair step; one has the teeth closer to the gripping end and I claimed it to be the #1 jaw.

I keep a felt-tip permanent (?) marker near my tools (use it like Dykem for scratch marking parts) and so I painted the outer end of that #1 jaw piece and then put them back in the chuck. Then I colored all of the end of the #1 jaw all over and just one side of the other two jaw pieces... the side that is closest to the one I colored all over. The chuck got a good coating of ink around the adjacent areas at the same time. When I have to remove and replace them I match the colored areas on the jaw pieces to the colored areas on the chuck. I have to remark them nearly everytime I change them because, even though the marker says it is "Permanent" ink, the various oils I use at times tends to disolve the ink (WD-40 is a great solvent). There is usually enough ink left somewhere to know which is the "#1" place and I keep it that way!

When I put them back in I use one finger of one hand to keep each jaw in place and squeeze them into the chuck spiral pinion and then turn the chuck key backwards until I feel the #1 jaw piece "fall off" the spiral inside the chuck. Then I turn the key forward until all the jaws are flush with the outer surface of the chuck. If one of them is still proud of the surface (or well below it), I know that I have either miss-read my painting and swapped a couple of them, or one didn't engage the spiral properly on the first pass and I need to back them all out until they all fall off the sprial before I wind them back in.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 05/13/2009 12:33 PM
Well said, Les! I appreciate your clarity and thoroughness!


/// Thank you, Semp. I try, but my memory's not so keen anymore.

My lathe did not have the jaws pieces marked at all and I do have to remove them to change between inside and outside grip. I was afraid to try to use a punch to mark them as I might deform them due to my general ham-handedness and I doubt if they are all that accurately made to begin with!

/// Well, if you're afraid to punch 'em, then put a sharp-pointed object in your dremel, like a ground-down drill bit, and use it to mark the jaws and the chuck. I wouldn't be afraid of punching the jaws, except do it with great softness of whack, more like a tap. It's possible the chuck shell is thin, but scratching around with a dremel won't do anything damaging. Take your chuck off the machine, remember to have reverence for the headstock bearings! 

When I first removed them I made sure I kept them separated and knew which one came from which slot in the chuck. I placed the jaws next to each other such that I could see the rack teeth on them form a stair step; one has the teeth closer to the gripping end and I claimed it to be the #1 jaw.

/// The method that works for you is the one to go with. There's lots of ways to accomplish the same thing.









Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 05/13/2009 9:43 AM
I can quickly reply, about two items. It does not have the quick change gear box, and I do not have the South Bend book. The rest will take some time, being that I need to build a bench to mount it on. It does have a flat leather belt with a 3 step pulley. 








Mike,

Try to make the bench from steel. Failing that, at least buy as heavy a steel top on a wooden bench as you can. I welded up the one for my little Atlas from bedrails and did the necessary shimming/filing from there.

You see, your lathe bed is flexible. You wouldn't think so, but if you torque the feeties down on an uneven plane surface, you will most assuredly twist the frame, which will throw the machine's accuracy off. The kind of lathe you have is a darned good one, designed to be used on a flat surface that stays flat. For my little Chinese machine, well, no big deal. It's too short to twist much, and I don't intend to screw it down anyway--unless it starts walking around.

Don't despair: you can level your lathe bed as you install it on the metal plate. Note that any metal plate you will likely want to pay for won't be level either. So what you do is, you set your lathe on that plate and rock it. Ho, so one footie seems to want to come up off the plate? Okay, shim it solid. (with metal shim stock--or if it's gross, grind a big flat washer to suit.)

Now you put the hold-down bolts in place. Scrub a flat spot with grit paper wherever you think you'll need it on that plate to hold a magnetic base dial indicator. Fix it to mike the bedway say, the left front corner by the headstock. Tighten down the hold-down bolt moderately. No dying strain, here, after all, you're working with cast iron. Now go to the diagonal opposite corner of the lathe, begin to torque the hold-down bolt (you've moved and set up your indicator, right?) and tighten until you get the same reading as you had in the front corner. Go all away around the machine this way, snugging (or releasing torque on the bolts) until your dial indicator reads as close as you can get it on any of the four corners. I don't think I'd sweat a couple of thousandths error, once the bolts are all snugged down.

Now, this won't give you perfect accuracy, but it'll be close enough. Lots of guys mount those big machines on wooden benches and never sweat the small stuff. 

Les


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## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

Hello Les: 

I don't mean to steal this thread but do you think setting up a southbend fourteen lathe on a concrete floor using a carpenters level was good enough for leveling? Should I have spent the money on a machinist level. I have never turned anything long so I don't know how it holds accuracy. It seems to be OK. I am thinking about getting a used bridgeport mill someday any advice on what to look out for or what to avoid? 

Johnny


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

You need a precision level. Set it up according to the manufacturers specifications or it won't be accurate.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By KYYADA on 05/13/2009 5:36 PM
Hello Les: 

I don't mean to steal this thread but do you think setting up a southbend fourteen lathe on a concrete floor using a carpenters level was good enough for leveling? Should I have spent the money on a machinist level. I have never turned anything long so I don't know how it holds accuracy. It seems to be OK. I am thinking about getting a used bridgeport mill someday any advice on what to look out for or what to avoid? 

Johnny








Don't worry about stealing this thread: I don't own it.

It's best to use a machinist's level because they have a good deal more resolution. Now, you didn't say if you're setting the lathe bench on a concrete floor, or the lathe. I can't imagine just the lathe itself. So if you're using a bench, is it a commercial lathe bench, a home made metal one like mine, wood, or what? At any rate, the carpenter's level is better than nothing. The main thing is, you don't want to bolt the mounting points of the lathe to a bench top that's not level. Some shimming is required, and how you determine that is the tricky part.

If by 'fourteen' you mean a lathe with a 14" Swing Over Bed (SOB), that's a big ol' machine.

I'm gonna assume you mean you've set a lathe & bench up on a concrete floor. Concrete floors in basements are rarely level. So .... you've got to level up the bench. If you can get manufacturer's instructions, do so, if you can't you'll have to do it by common sense and not get overly worried. As I said in another post, I've seen 9" South Bends bolted to wooden benches made of 2" thick lumber. 

Since your lathe appears to be already in use, to check for bed twist you need to indicate it at the four corners. Also, take a piece of long round stock that goes nearly the length of the bed, and mount it. Then take a cut near the headstock. Take another about midway down, and one near the tailstock. Make certain each cut is the same depth. Now, mike those cuts to see how close in diameter they are. They should be right on the money. If they aren't, then you've got either a tailstock mis-alignment or the bed is not true. You'll have to play around with it to figure out which it is. Generally, and out of line tailstock will give a smaller reading at the bar at its end. One way I can think of is to turn a piece of long stock with reasonably light cuts. If it tapers in diameter moving toward the tailstock, try checking the tailstock alignment first. It's late for me, I can't remember how to do that.

Re the Bridgeport: Yeah, there's a lot to watch out for. Just for openers, run the bed all the way to one end, grab it and shake it. There should be no play. I ran one with about 1/4" overall shake for awhile. Check the infeed the same way. There's many things to check, quill runout being one of them, the same as headstock runout on a lathe. Shouldn't be any. I really don't think I'd pay what they seem to be getting for a used one. The low-priced ones are chancy, and the high-priced ones are expensive. You need nearly as much money for the tooling on a Bridgeport as it costs, new. (1985 dollars). They're not like the Chinese stuff: the vises, etc need to be of as good a quality as the machine, in order to get the inherent accuracy you want. That gets expensive.

The best thing you can do is get on a machinst website and spend a year asking questions and reading other people's posts before you lay down money.

Hope this helps.

Les


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## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

I told my wifey I needed to buy some more stuff, She wasn't the happiest camper in the park. It's a 14 x 40 what size machinist level should I get? Les it has four metal plates and legs that screw in kinda like leveling an appliance. 

Thanks for the help Guys 
Johnny


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By KYYADA on 05/14/2009 6:23 PM
I told my wifey I needed to buy some more stuff, She wasn't the happiest camper in the park. It's a 14 x 40 what size machinist level should I get? Les it has four metal plates and legs that screw in kinda like leveling an appliance. 

Thanks for the help Guys 
Johnny 








Get a level that's as finely graduated as you can. Some use screws to adjust a magnified glass and bubble, others just use a bubble with 1 deg graduations on a rotating piece that holds (I think) a steel straight edge.

Since the lathe appears to be sitting on something made for it, put the level across the ways and slide it back and forth. Like any other measuring tool, your results will only be as accurate as the tool can measure. If it won't fit, use a parallel to rest it on. It should remain either level, or have the same inclination all the way along the ways. Just so that everything's even. If not, the leg screws are where you want to go to fix things.

Also, try rotating the level so it measures along one bedway, and slide it along. I doubt you'll turn anything up, but just see what you get. Obviously, those ways want to be very clean.

Alternately, you can mount a dial indicator on one bedway and measure across while sliding the indicator. That will tell you a little bit about whether there are worn places, but then so will tightening the gibs on the compound so that they are tight as possible, then hand crank the thing along the bed to see if/where it might want to drag.

Lastly, to check chuck runout, get a drill blank, a carefully machined steel blank that is polished down to perhaps 0.0001" or better. Chuck it up, indicate it, and turn the chuck by hand to check the runout. Shouldn't be any. None.

If all these rough 'n ready tests turn out in the +/- 0.0005" range, you're pretty well set for a hobby machine.

Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

For non-precision work, has anyone tried those power drill setups? (since in the final analysis a router is nothing more than a machine that makes things turn and something that cuts the metal)

(I can picture the tomatoes being thrown by Sherwin and Grizzly owners)


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Point of fact, I do have one of those and use it more than you'd think. Mostly I carry it up to the patio when the weather is nice and I'm working out there. They're fine, for what they are. Just for drilling holes. No milling or routing or cool stuff.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I went through about half the videos on metal working that someone provided links to. The heavy duty shop lathe, probably costing upwards of 10K, is simply awesome. 

If I ever were to purchase a tiny lathe, I don't know if I'd be satisfied. Maybe better to save up money and get the beast, instead of buying a small one, needing a larger one and adding that and so on. Best to make one purchase. 

http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/134-machine-shop-9


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

I have a 12" X 39" lathe and I am giving it and the mil (9 x 54) also to my son and plan on replacing them with the Grizzly G9729 Combo Lathe/Mill . The only reason I went with the larger one is the frame/foundation is more sturdy. I used my other lathe and mill for automotive and motorcycle work and just don't do that anymore. I have found I always want more than I need and am trying to back off a bit.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

SE wrote: "If I ever were to purchase a tiny lathe, I don't know if I'd be satisfied. Maybe better to save up money and get the beast, instead of buying a small one, needing a larger one and adding that and so on. Best to make one purchase. "

Weelll ... the cost is not confined to the lathe, accessories are needed. These too take a quantum leap (or two) and altogether, the price will shoot right on up there. Then, suppose you find you have to move. Moving one of those isn't fun. Or let's suppose you get it and find running a lathe isn't near as cool as it seems. If you elect to sell it, there's a lot of money down the drain. Potentially.

Now, let's suppose you bought a cheapie to learn on. (Incidentally, there's a little, tiny thing at HF that I drool over every time I go in there. You can't cut threads on it, no halfnuts.) But other than that, and given the fine-threads found in model RRing which lend themselves to dies anyway, it's conceivably all you'll ever need, plus it's cheap. You want to get rid of it, you've lost no serious amount of money. Just something to think about.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Marauder,

I hear you. I keep thinking I should get rid of my big stuff, clear out the garage of a lifetime's supply of automotive-fixing tools, big wrenches, 3/4" socket 'set' (I put it together a socket at a time as I could find and afford them). I haven't had my 10" table saw on in two years. It's taken me all morning to uncover it to make a couple of cuts on a piece of ply that I could fake through on my little 7" downstairs. Haven't used the welders in a decade. I just gathered up a whole milk crate of gear, wheel & hub pullers, most of which had cobwebs on 'em.

OTOH, I think: they're paid for. I won't lose any more than I already have. And if it _should _happen I wanted to work on something, it's all there.

I dunno. Got a lot of memories in that stuff. I just don't know. Except I know I don't want to work on big stuff anymore.


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

I told my 36 yr old Son that as soon as he got his house with a garage they were his along with a bunch of other equipment. Better he has them and uses them than sitting around in my shop so I can't get to the machines i want and need to use. If I need something big done I will either go to his place or one of my buddies and bum from them as I probably have more favors to cash in than I will ever use. I know I have been wrestling with the "it's paid for Blahblahblah but I only have so much square footage to work in and I really need to free some of it up.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Marauder wroted "... or one of my buddies and bum from them as I probably have more favors to cash in than I will ever use..."

Good luck. But maybe you chose your friends better than I did. For all the favors I've passed out, I got maybe 1 out of 10 comin' back. The best excuse I heard was, "I don't have time." But he had the time when _he_ needed something. I no longer do favors, save for throwaways that won't cost me time or wear 'n tear on my tools and machines. I just say, "Nope. Don't want to fool with it."


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I find it very hard to get out of "acquisition mode". I spent so many years looking "for" that I find myself still "looking" when I already "have" what I am looking at. And I find that I am not USING that which I already have... and I have no more room to acquire anyway!


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

Yep!! I had more than a few of them but as I got more senior I became a "Grumpy Old Curmudgeon" and semi reclusive because of the bums out there. I got maybe 5-6 folks that are real friends that I depend on. So be it that a lot of the favors that I gave will never be recipicated. Darned Bums!! I have met some great folks in this hobby and they are much more stand up that a lot of others I have known in the past. I wish you happy trails in the future.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 13 Jul 2009 01:31 PM 
I find it very hard to get out of "acquisition mode". I spent so many years looking "for" that I find myself still "looking" when I already "have" what I am looking at. And I find that I am not USING that which I already have... and I have no more room to acquire anyway! 







Yup. That's another thing. Couldn't have put it better.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm not as old as most of you (52) and I don't have nearly the quantity (or quality) of tools most of you own, but my problem is my wife and daughter (22) don't care a lick for trains or related projects. If someday I get grandkids, then perhaps I can get them interested and pass them down. I still have some of my dad's old hand tools that probably date from the 20s


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

SE

That's kinda sad. Just do it for yourself, then. My wife and daughter are very encouraging, thank heavens. My daugther's 35, though. Had time to get away from ol Dad and come back, sorta. I carried a RR in my head for 25 years, after we had to tear down the big Lionel layout. No room, no money, kids to raise. Now it's all done and I find I'm very tired. Don't want to do much. I keep thinking, "Maybe if I push a little and get the first benchwork up and a piece of track down, I'll feel better." Dunno. Always something expensive breaks, or something I can fix needs fixing, and about four or five hours a day--with lotsa sitdown time-- is all I'm good for.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm going to Korea next week for 2 weeks to visit my inlaws, whom I haven't visited in 24 years (shame on me). 

I'm wondering if anyone knows that there might be better bargains pricewise overseas? 

24 years ago or 31 years ago when I first went there, there were lots of bargains.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I help People because it makes me feel good inside. Some times I get something back some times I don't But that's ok too 
Like I tell my fellow repairmen. If you take 180,000 lbs of printing machinery that is broke and you make it run. And you see the sheets coming out of the delivery in perfect register. If that don't make you feel something inside. Then Babe your doing it for all the wrong reasons.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I've got a really dumb question about metal lathes (or mills for that matter). Do you actually need one in order to fabricate a steam locomotive from scratch? I'm assuming that's why most builders buy lathes.

I'm thinking you might be able to use existing COTS parts.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave

The answer is, of course not, you can do it all with hand tools alone, however, it's going to take a lot longer and on many of the parts being fabricated there's going to be a real steep learning curve and redoing.

By the way, what does the 'COTS' stand for?


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

thanks 

commercial off-the-shelf, guess military uses it a lot when discussing building new robots and UAVs from Radio Shack or Home Depot parts


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

What Steve said.

Anyway, you'd have to sink a lot of time in getting reasonably good with a lathe, money for the machine and tooling, and learning to use the tooling. Try it using hand tools. *If *you don't get it built, you'll still be a lot more informed than you are right now about a whole lot of things. For nearly no price outlay. And if you *do *succeed, you'll have accomplished something that few any more will even attempt. Go for it and keep a rough count of expense for files, hacksaw blades, etc. I bet you'll be ahead, outlay costs. And you'll really know how to use a file, a vastly underrated skill in these times. (In mine too, FWIW). Go, try. I certainly will cheer your efforts.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

It really depends on the engine. Something like a BAGRS oscillator would not require a lathe. A Roundhouse running chassis and boiler kit probably not either. Just a Roundhouse cylinder set and fabricate the rest, you probably would.

On the plumbing side you may need a little silver solder capability. Probably won't find OTC (Over The Counter) piping that fits. A MAPP torch is probably all you need.


You may want to get with Howard Maculsay (maculsay), he's done some significant work with COTS parts. He would have better insight. Larry Newman (redbeard) too.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

MY next project is a Lathe and a Mill of some sorts. Not verry big Jus to make some 1:29 stuff out of metal


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 20 Feb 2010 06:18 PM 
MY next project is a Lathe and a Mill of some sorts. Not verry big Jus to make some 1:29 stuff out of metal 



Any one of the lathes mentioned on this thread will do you fine.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

so sorry to be such a pest, but I've pretty much thought this thing thru and have narrowed it down to 2 mid-price range models that I will select one from next year. 

1. Micromark's new 7X14 (around $650) 

or 

2. Harbor freight's 9X20 (around $600) 

OK, so both models are made in China so quality should be equal, right? 

At first, I was going to buy a tiny Taig model for half that price, but after seeing some of Bob Sorenson's projects on the 7/8 scale forum (operated by Ferd), I decided that a model with more room was needed so I wouldn't regret the purchase. 

The micromark model has a neat accessory for about $150. It is a vertical holder that allows you to use the lathe for limited milling operations 

thanks 

Dave V


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 15 Mar 2010 06:22 AM 
so sorry to be such a pest, but I've pretty much thought this thing thru and have narrowed it down to 2 mid-price range models that I will select one from next year. 

1. Micromark's new 7X14 (around $650) 

or 

2. Harbor freight's 9X20 (around $600) 

OK, so both models are made in China so quality should be equal, right? 

At first, I was going to buy a tiny Taig model for half that price, but after seeing some of Bob Sorenson's projects on the 7/8 scale forum (operated by Ferd), I decided that a model with more room was needed so I wouldn't regret the purchase. 

The micromark model has a neat accessory for about $150. It is a vertical holder that allows you to use the lathe for limited milling operations 

thanks 

Dave V 
Micromark offers several attachments for their lathe. A 4 jawed chuck is a must have. A drill chuck for the tail-stock. A live center for the tail-stock, which is a center that rotates with the work piece. The milling attachment would come in handy too. I have heard guys say positive things about this machine.


I have a Grizzly model 9 x 20. It's a big lathe. More than I will need for Gauge 1 work. I plan to use it for 7.5" gauge work.



As for Chinese made, they are not that bad. They get the job done. Besides there is not much alternative. Either $15,000 for a US made tool room machine or a crap shoot on eBay. 


It's a very difficult decision to make.


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## GaryR (Feb 6, 2010)

Had the 7X12 from micro mark for a few years. Never regretted it. 
Started collecting tools many years ago, thinking one day I'd have the time, but not the money. I was right.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dave,

Get yourself a copy of Micromark's catalog. I think the first time cost $5, but they keep sending 'em, after.

The MM version has 'Imperial' or SAE threads, while the Seig/Red Bull one(s) have metric threads in the lead and compound screws. This means--I don't have the numbers in my head--that if you dial in one turn on an SAE thread, you'll get X one-thousands _of an inch _movement of the tool bit. If you do the same with a metric leadscrew, you'll get a different number. Not a lot, but _I think_ on the order of X plus/minus .012" or so. Check and verify for yourself. Obviously, this can cause headaches when trying to figure out how far to turn the knob. It's no big deal, because when you start getting near your desired dim, you'll want to mike it anyway. And you'll quickly learn to judge from the thickness of the chips approximately how much is coming off.

I have the Seig/Red Bull, still waiting for me to get it set up. Has metric threads. I got mine incredibly cheap, brand new, off Craig's List. Otherwise I was going to save for the MM one because:

A) they have all the neat stuff to go with it, right there in the catalog--though Little Machine Shop gets good press from many people, and you can get lead screws (Imperial)--but verify that--from them. A benefit is, you take the hit on the price of buying a lathe, then as you can afford, you upgrade.

B) They advertise that they will provide customer support. I don't know how truthful that is.

C) They offer a pretty nice-looking Chinese mill. AND, they offer a set of collets and drawbar that will work in either machine. This is a big savings. Again, MM offers all the goodies right there. But MM is pricey, a little. Depends upon whether you want bottom dollar or less hassle figuring out what goes with what. At my age, I don't want hassle, which is why I was saving for a MM lathe. Then I fell over that one on C/L.

I'd also hazard that the 7x10 will do 7/8ths scale stuff very well, thank you.

I'd like to advance an opinion. It, and a buck, will buy you a cup of coffee. Forget the 'add on' mill accessory. It'll be a PIA. Instead, put the price toward a standalone mill.

Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks Les, Gary, Bob: the mill attachment is pretty heftily priced anyway, at about a third the cost of a mill. Maybe the 4 jaw chuck would be a better accessory. You've convinced me MM is the one. I get their catalogues free and see sales from time to time but rarely on that lathe. Maybe around New Year's time might be nice. I hope it comes with a good manual, as I know zilch about lathes, except that I like what they produce and enjoy tinkering with stuff. 

I wonder what happened to all the Atlas and South Bend lathes that used to be advertised in popular mechanics years ago. I guess the succumbed


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 17 Mar 2010 06:01 AM 
Thanks Les, Gary, Bob: the mill attachment is pretty heftily priced anyway, at about a third the cost of a mill. Maybe the 4 jaw chuck would be a better accessory. You've convinced me MM is the one. I get their catalogues free and see sales from time to time but rarely on that lathe. Maybe around New Year's time might be nice. I hope it comes with a good manual, as I know zilch about lathes, except that I like what they produce and enjoy tinkering with stuff. 

I wonder what happened to all the Atlas and South Bend lathes that used to be advertised in popular mechanics years ago. I guess the succumbed 
Atlas 6" are on eBay. They are not in production anymore. I've had one for 32 years and run it hard. It's a great machine. If you find one locally, go check it out. If the bed is not hacked, the rest of it will probably be OK. The Atlas chucks screw onto the spindle. I think the 7" are attached with bolts. The Atlas has a feature called a "backgear". Backgear is an extra set of gears in the headstock that allow for very slow, high power speed. It's handy for turning large diameter without chatter or overheating the bit. Backgear also locks the spindle so changing chucks is real easy and quick. 


Littlemachineshop.com offers a lot of tooling that fits Atlas.

I would recommend an Atlas 6" ONLY if you have the chance to see it personally before buying.

Also check Yahoo user groups. There are groups for the 7" imports as well as Atlas.


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## Lawrence Wallace (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 
What part of the country do you live in? 

Past my Metal working days for lathes, just work with aluminum foils now days. 

My Sherline lathe goes to my Son-in-law. 

But my Atlas 6" is going on the block. 
I have the milling attachment with it. 
It's an old but good lathe. 
Also the original manual for it. 
The head is good and tight. 
3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck plus flat face plate. 

The only thing I don't have is the original motor mount. But have used it for 30 years with the way it's mounted now. 

There is no way to ship it, so it looks like it will go to someone within driving range 

I'm located in Bellaire, Ohio on The Ohio River 4 miles south of Wheeling, WV. 

Take care, 
Yogi


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Lawrence Wallace on 17 Mar 2010 02:32 PM 
Dave, 
What part of the country do you live in? 

Past my Metal working days for lathes, just work with aluminum foils now days. 

My Sherline lathe goes to my Son-in-law. 

But my Atlas 6" is going on the block. 
I have the milling attachment with it. 
It's an old but good lathe. 
Also the original manual for it. 
The head is good and tight. 
3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck plus flat face plate. 

The only thing I don't have is the original motor mount. But have used it for 30 years with the way it's mounted now. 

There is no way to ship it, so it looks like it will go to someone within driving range 

I'm located in Bellaire, Ohio on The Ohio River 4 miles south of Wheeling, WV. 

Take care, 
Yogi 





Yogi: Is your the older style with the rounded headstock or the newer squared version?


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Let me suggest, in case I forgot to, that you obtain a South Bend "How to Run a Lathe" manual. Paperback shirtpocket sized manual, I've seen 'em on eBay. That's all you need, trust me. (Of course, the 7x 10 will be laid out differently, but it's the 'standard practices' part, and how to grind your own tooling that's equally importan).

One thing you need to watch on the Craftsman/Atlas 6" lathes offered on eBay: if you try really hard, you can tuck the tool under the work, thus springing the bed. I don't know of an easy way to check for a sprung bed, unless it's bad enough to see by sighting, but I'd _never_ buy one of those machines, esp. off eBay, for that reason.

Les


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## Lawrence Wallace (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 

I guess it might be the round type. 
It has a flat top with rounded edges. 

I have just about everything Sherline makes for their lathe. I put a lot of hours on it over the years. 

I missed a nice little South Bend, I used back in 1953 at A Naval Reserve Unit, when they closed the unit. It went for $350.00 With boxes of tooling for it. The guy who bought it sold it within a week. Never could get him to say what he sold it for.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Hi Yogi, 

I'm PMing you. I'm in DC area but driving to Chicago to visit my daughter next week and looks like your town is on the way 

Dave


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's South Bends from an ad in 1928 Popular Mechanics 










And this South Bend is from 1938 PM 










thought you'd like the walk down memory lane


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

one last question from a beginner. 

Has anyone used a lathe dog? 

Couldn't one be used to hold square pieces instead of a 4-jaw-chuck?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave

I would say, use the correct tool/accessory, that's not what a lathe dog is for.

Use of a four-jaw chuck is...
[*]Grip rectangular and other non-cylindrical shapes for turning or facing[*]Form rectangular shaped objects[*]Precisely center cylindrical stock to within the limits of the lathe's accuracy[*]Hold stock off-center for turning cams or drilling off-center holes [/list]
The above courtesy of Mini-Lathe Com[/b]


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 26 Mar 2010 07:51 AM 
one last question from a beginner. 

Has anyone used a lathe dog? 

Couldn't one be used to hold square pieces instead of a 4-jaw-chuck? 



Hi David: A lathe dog is used when the work piece is turned between 2 centers. One center is in the headstock and the other in the tailstock. The stock being turned is almost always a round bar. The lathe dog grips the bar to turn it. Lathe dogs are very rarely used. In fact, I have never used one, probably don't have one. Here's what they look like.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rriers.jpg 
Bob.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 26 Mar 2010 07:51 AM 
one last question from a beginner. 

Has anyone used a lathe dog? 

Couldn't one be used to hold square pieces instead of a 4-jaw-chuck? 



I've never used one, either. Didn't even know how until I read Bob's post.

I think (it's past my bedtime a lot so be warned, the following might be imaginary)-- I think you might IF you could get a dead center hole in the workpiece and the necessary setscrews located and drilled in the dog. Doing that little trick is for the experts.

Anyway, I was thinking the other day whilst otherwise usefully engaged, and I thought I'd note to you that if you put off buying a four-jaw chuck for awhile, no great loss might be felt, because with a 3 jaw and a brand new lathe (0r used but new to you) you'll be so happy turning wonderful pieces out of round stock, exploring the capabilities of a lathe, cutting threads both internal & external, and generally feeling good about yourself that the absence of a 4 jaw probably won't be noticed for a good while. By then your pockets will be overflowing again with $$ and you can buy one.


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

I would definitely search for an old lathe in the 9"+ swing size. Some to look for are South Bend, Sheldon, Clausing. I have a Sheldon 11" toolroom model, circa:1940's. I paid $750 for it about 30 years ago. The nice thing about a used machine is, it usually comes with many attachments and tooling which can add up to a lot of bucks. If I were to add up all the tooling that came with my lathe plus the lathe itself, the cost would be between 5 and 10 thousand dollars for comparable quality. Look for a lathe with a quick change gearbox. Check with used machinery dealers in your area. That's how I found my lathe. If all your work will be on very small parts, then any of the miniature lathes will work(Taig, Sherline, Unimat). Just keep in mind; the cost of tooling can add up quickly with a new lathe.


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

Posted By KYYADA on 13 May 2009 05:36 PM 
Hello Les: 

I don't mean to steal this thread but do you think setting up a southbend fourteen lathe on a concrete floor using a carpenters level was good enough for leveling? Should I have spent the money on a machinist level. I have never turned anything long so I don't know how it holds accuracy. It seems to be OK. I am thinking about getting a used bridgeport mill someday any advice on what to look out for or what to avoid? 

Johnny 
I believe all Bridgeports use 3 phase electric power. If you get one, you will have to get a phase converter.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mr Ron on 27 Mar 2010 10:43 AM 
Posted By KYYADA on 13 May 2009 05:36 PM 
Hello Les: 

I don't mean to steal this thread but do you think setting up a southbend fourteen lathe on a concrete floor using a carpenters level was good enough for leveling? Should I have spent the money on a machinist level. I have never turned anything long so I don't know how it holds accuracy. It seems to be OK. I am thinking about getting a used bridgeport mill someday any advice on what to look out for or what to avoid? 

Johnny 


Johnny,

No, I don't think using a carpenter's level is/was enough, but it's all the man had, and the last machinist's level I've priced was $250 used. The basis of that comment was that many people/some people merely bolt their lathes to a home-made wooden bench and are happy. If memory serves, I also gave some pointers on how to check the bed by doing cuts on a bar mounted between the centers. The idea is, they don't work up anywhere near to the tolerances of the machine, they're home hobbyists. That is my thinking re the carpenter's level. As I'm sure you're aware, a machinist's level is rarely used unless you're off-surface plate working and I for one have so rarely used mine it's still new-in-box looking. I did have occasion to use it once or twice, but that, plus the fact that the company paid for it still made it a very expensive proposition to own one.

BTW, you are not 'stealing this thread'. It isn't mine, I just participate in it, and I find it annoying when posting on a related subject but not closely-related enough to be dead spot on the thread, and some yahoo calls me out on it. You and I pay to post here, and unless it's the guy who owns the thread or designee, all else is unwarranted intrusiveness IMNSHO. Also, I happen to like the "oh, by the way, did you know about...." thoughts that causes threads to wander around. I've learned a lot by accident from so-called 'thread hijackers', particularly aspects of a subject that had never occurred to me.

Okay, off the Soapbox. 

Les


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's an article on lathe dog in March 1952 Popular Science. Doing a search I came up with dozens of articles in PS and PM magazines. The first illustration shows square stock 

page 233 http://books.google.com/books?id=qS...mp;f=false


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

SE,

There you go! From what little I can make out, you've gotten a snapshot of the 'real world' of machining. Ingenuity and the willingness to try 'mocking up' a fixture to see if it'll work can be very rewarding. I used to have to make a lot of really weird things, engineering study models, for which there were no drawings--lucky if I had a sketch. So inventiveness, imagination and creativity all come together around an engine lathe. Another way of saying it might be, "It's the journey, not the destination that matters most." (Unless you're doing production--and who wants to come home to a production run?)

I bet you'd spend a lot of happy hours with one, and hope you get a nice one. It doesn't have to be a top-of-the-line item, with all the gizmos (though that is to dream for, because the attachments add versatility and are fun to learn to use all in themselves). The South Bend I had a MAC, I wouldn't give you $50 for, it was so worn I had to drop washers behind the compound screw to take up the windage.

My son tells me that all our heavy machine castings are now being imported. Be aware, though, there are quality of castings like any other thing.

Go, you.









Les


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

What a great thread. I was away for a while and notice quite a bit of posting while I was gone. 

There was a question concerning lathe dogs and 4 jaw chucks. Lathe dogs can be used on any shape stock as can a 4 jaw chuck. It all depends on the application.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I was going to start a new thread but I will ask my questions here.

Are all shafts that the chuck is mounted to Hollow?

This would allow you to stick material in the chuck and allow you to work on the end of it.

Also is there a adjustment to true up the shaft that the chuck is mounted on?

I went and looked at a small atlass lathe ( Think it was atlass)_ and way the shaft that the chuck is mounted on seemed to woble. It was only visable when you stuck a round piece in the chuck.

It does not apear that the material was chucked wrong.

JJ


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 24 Nov 2010 02:23 PM 
I was going to start a new thread but I will ask my questions here.

Are all shafts that the chuck is mounted to Hollow?

This would allow you to stick material in the chuck and allow you to work on the end of it.

Also is there a adjustment to true up the shaft that the chuck is mounted on?

I went and looked at a small atlass lathe ( Think it was atlass)_ and way the shaft that the chuck is mounted on seemed to woble. It was only visable when you stuck a round piece in the chuck.

It does not apear that the material was chucked wrong.

JJ 


1st an aside... I got an e-mail from MLS showing your post but when I logged into MLS, knowing I wanted to respond, but because this thread did not show up as a recent post or in the "Not Read" list I forgot about it while reading the other new/unread postings. But something kept nagging at my pea brain that something was missing. I had to go back to my e-mail and retrieve the deleted e-mails from this morning to remind me what it was. Wonder hows come it didn't show up as new?


Anyway. yes, the chuck mount has a hole all the way through so a very long piece of stock can be chucked up and only the end few inches can be worked on. The other end outside of the machine needs to be monitored (or restrained) to keep it from flopping around and damaging something if the lathe is run at even moderately high speeds. And the longer the piece the more probable it will whip around!

The only problem with the hole in the headstock is that is is ALWAYS just a tiny bit too small to hold the piece of stock I want to fit through it!









I need to re-emphisize the caution to watch the loose end of a piece of stock out the side of the machine. It can whip around and really clean the work bench of screwdrivers, wrenches and other tools or material there. It can also remove human appendages just as easily if you reach out to stop the whipping action.

Getting the stock to run true to the chuck can be a problem. Some folk will run a boring bit into the empty chuck jaws to get the inside edges all the same distance from the center of rotation. The alternative is to use a stock that is enough larger than the desired output product that you can true it up removing material from any eccentric "lobe" caused by the miss-centered chuck/jaws.

It is, unfortunately, easy to missalign the stock in the chuck. You didn't say who put the stock in the chuck you were looking at (you or someone else) or if not you if you could play with the chuck key and the stock to see if you could do a better job. It is also possible the stock had been bent, making it appear to be missaligned.

Is is possible that if the lathe is poorly made that the axis of rotation is not parallel to the bed/carriage axis of motion. This would create a tapered cut and pretty much ruin any final product (or keep you from ever making a final product!). Some correction can be made for this by using a tailstock to hold the outer end of the workpiece in the correct position, but you might then get some distortion such as a narrower middle of a long turned piece (similar to the problem caused by the work piece deflecting near the middle causing a slight barrel shape).

Even so, with patience and SKILL one can compensate for "small" such misalignments and still get acceptable results. (I have neither the patience nor skill! But I have made a couple of single item pieces that have met my need using my MicroMark lathe and Cummins mill.)


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I forgot to add; When the chuck is mounted to the headstock plate, on SOME lathes, there is some adjustment you can make to get them concentric, and some have a circular groove that precludes ever adjusting the chuck if the plate is not manufactured properly. Maybe the lathe head was not mounted properly on the lathe you saw.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 24 Nov 2010 02:23 PM 
I was going to start a new thread but I will ask my questions here.

Are all shafts that the chuck is mounted to Hollow?

This would allow you to stick material in the chuck and allow you to work on the end of it.

Also is there a adjustment to true up the shaft that the chuck is mounted on?

I went and looked at a small atlass lathe ( Think it was atlass)_ and way the shaft that the chuck is mounted on seemed to woble. It was only visable when you stuck a round piece in the chuck.

It does not apear that the material was chucked wrong.

JJ 


In addition to what Semper said, the hole thru the headstock is also tapered for a shot length, then straight thru. The taper is there to accept other lathe accessories, like a center point, boring head, or collets. If you looked at an Atlas 6" the taper would be a Morse #2. Lathe chucks have to be clean and free of chips getting inside. Chips can cause the jaws to mis-align or the chuck body to not set squarelt on the spindle nose.

But, then again, chuck can wear and pick up a wobble


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## rahulsingh20 (Mar 9, 2011)

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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)




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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Posted By Mr Ron on 27 Mar 2010 10:43 AM 
Posted By KYYADA on 13 May 2009 05:36 PM 
Hello Les: 

I don't mean to steal this thread but do you think setting up a southbend fourteen lathe on a concrete floor using a carpenters level was good enough for leveling? Should I have spent the money on a machinist level. I have never turned anything long so I don't know how it holds accuracy. It seems to be OK. I am thinking about getting a used bridgeport mill someday any advice on what to look out for or what to avoid? 

Johnny 
I believe all Bridgeports use 3 phase electric power. If you get one, you will have to get a phase converter.

Mr ron
All Bridgeport were not 3 phase, but single phase are very rare. 
I have a single phase that I bought 6 or 7 years ago with all the original paper work. 
This is the 2nd single phase Bridgeport I've seen.
I also have a single phase 14 X 48 Clausing lathe I bought when I got the mill, 

Rodney


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Check E bay There are quite a few Phase Converters both Rotary and Solidstate at reasonable prices. 

JJ


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

I would highly recommend looking for a used 9" South Bend, Sheldon or Atlas lathe. They are kind of hard to find. If you live near a large city, check with used machinery dealers. They will be of much better quality than anything new from China. I got a Sheldon 11" tool room model with complete accessories 30 years ago for $500. The tooling alone that came with it was worth several thousand by today's prices and everything was made in America.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Hi guys, about a week ago I purchased my first lathe, a 9" SB ModA from '43 for $850. I've been reading up on it and just made a purchase of specialized lubricants for gear, way, spindle, but I do have questions I haven't been able to find answers to anywhere online.

The outside of lathe has paint chips and oil/grease? buildup. Do I just use a degreaser? What protective coating do I then apply?


Also, the way and gears have some rust and slight buildup. Do I use kerosene and brush to clean?


Lastly, can I use the lathe to cut wood? I'm guessing that I can but need to be fastidious about cleaning it up. It's primarily for metal, but occasional wood might be nice.

Your response(s) much appreciated.

BTW, I intend to start small, after experimenting, try my hand at a very simple steam engine, probably stationary before I do something that runs on rails, you know, tin can simple. I also need to learn silver soldering. A lot to learn for an old guy

DaveV


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Dave
Turning wood on a metal lathe is really no problem, when I do it I use a bar in the tool holder that replaces the tool rest that a wood lathe has. I use wood lathe chisels rather than metal cutting tools.
If you want to use metal tool bits for wood, I would recomend high speed steel bits and use a buffer wheel to put a real sharp edge on them, As an old woodworker In my previous life, most people
using a metal lathe thinks that since a cutter cuts steel it will cut wood even better. Wrong







because wood needs razor sharp and higher speed, properly held most lathe chisels for wood either
uses the scraping or shearing method rather than forcing a cut. Which produces mostly rough or gouging cuts. I never worry about any oil or coolant on the lathe before cutting wood, because the
wood will soak up or dry up the oil when you clean off the dust. When cleaning the dust your lathe will become very clean. After your lathe has been cleaned of the wood chips and dust be sure
and relubricate all your bed ways with a good oil, I use CRC 3-36 oil for lubrication. 
I use CRC degreaser when cleaning up greasy/dry oil things. WD 40 is a better cleaner than lubricator.. The crc 3-36 does not dry sticky like most water based lubricants, I will use CRC 3-36 on alot
of the surfaces and whipe down with a heavy paper towel which leaves a a very nice film of oil that does not get sticky and will hardly ever allow any rusting.
Congrats on your new toy/tool they are lots of fun.
Dennis


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Yes, a degreaser should be just fine, but you still may not get it all off. I think the oil gets right into the paint or something. Don't worry about it - it's a 70 year old machine tool! It has "character" by now.

The paint is probably an enamel. You shouldn't need to put anything on it to protect it, but if you want to get carried away, an automotive wax will work. When you say "paint chips", do you mean chips out of the original paint, or drips or spots of other paint on top of the original. I'd use a razor blade to take off the latter. 

My choice for light rust and grunge removal is a solvent like mineral spirits and a Scotchbrite abrasive pad, and elbow grease. If it is just a little area, I use a squirt from a can of WD-40 that's handy on the shelf instead of opening up a gallon can of solvent. Scrub, wipe away the mess with a rag, repeat. And wear rubber gloves, because it will really make a mess of your hands if you don't. Finish up with a coating of light oil and wipe off any excess.

The most important things are that it is positioned such that the ways aren't twisted, the ways are in good shape, the gibs are adjusted properly, the headstock spindle bearings are in good shape, the tailstock is centered, and probably some others that I've forgotten. Have fun!


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

thanks for your comments. I guess this is old hat to most of you, beginner questions and such, so appreciate your indulging 

BTW, I'm watching youtube videos and reading lathe online boards, trying to cram a lifetime of education into a small amount of time; thank God for forums like this! In the old days you had to get your knowledge via apprenticeship. 

BTW, I'm purchasing my lubes from bluechipmachineshop.com just down the road from me in Centreville VA. For wiping the ways, I purchased felt (high grade wool); also, purchased starter pack: 

8 oz Mobil vactra #2 way oil 
8 oz Mobil Velocite #6 spindle oil 
8 ox Mobil DTE heavy/medium circulating oil 
8 oz Monroe cool tool II cutting and tapping fluid 

I'll use the way oil for the ways, spindle oil for spindle (headstock bearings) and the circulating oil for the gears and everything else 

Cheers 

Dave V


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

BTW, I purchased 2 tapers and 2 different sized chucks for the tailstock, Now I have to figure out how the tapers go into the chucks (which end goes in) as no instructions came with them. I'm guessing they have to be pounded in.

I think there's an assumption that people who buy these sorts of things know what they're doing


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); 
I think there's an assumption that people who buy these sorts of things know what they're doing  


Don't worry Dave I think a lot of the people who look like they know what they are doing don't, or aren't as sure of them selves as they would like to be. I sure don't know what I'm doing. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I just got a South Bend 10" a couple months ago and now just about have my 3 phase wired so I can turn it on. I had a lot of the same questions about oiling. Did I see you on the Practical Machinist board under your same name (SE18)? That is one big site, but lots of good info. I hope you enjoy your new toy, and I cant wait to see you first build posts!


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Hi Randy, Yes, I put one post on there introducing myself. I didn't want to ask any questions until reading all the FAQs and stuff they have there. My head is exploding with questions. For instance, I'm reading Bulletin H04 published by SB "Keep Your Lathe In Trim" says to periodically lube the motor. Can't figure out if they mean taking it apart and repacking the bearings or what. Also, it's cat and mouse trying to find all the little oiling holes in the SB9". I imagine your 10" is a beast. Sometimes I feel so excited about having the lathe and other times I get the heebee jeebies just thinking about what I might do to screw something up so I'm trying to read, learn and take it slow, then start building small and gradually work my way up to a steam engine on rails. That would be the ultimate! 

Oh yes, I'm also trying to decide if I eventually want a mill attachment. I understand that setup time can be long when changing from turning to milling. Also, I eventually will need a 4 chuck as my universal 3 chuck only handles round and hex shapes. I guess I could turn a square piece on centers. Or, use a square bracket lathe dog. Ha! 

Keep us posted Randy, so we can see what projects you're doing as well. My first goal is to get some scrap and figure out how to turn, face and the most challenging----thread 

Dave


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Posted By SE18 on 23 Feb 2012 09:31 AM 
I'm reading Bulletin H04 published by SB "Keep Your Lathe In Trim" says to periodically lube the motor. Can't figure out if they mean taking it apart and repacking the bearings or what. Also, it's cat and mouse trying to find all the little oiling holes in the SB9".

I think on many older motors have a small "lid" that should be over top of the bearing on each end of the motor. This will need a few drops of (? some kind) lubrication oil periodically. I'll check my 10" to see if it has them tonight. After those fell out of vogue I think they switched to sealed bearing that don't need maintenance. Where is the SB bulletin you are reading? I'd like to look at it too. Outside of proper lubrication and "leveling", I don't know that there is too much other than really crashing a tool that you are going to do to mess it up. A 4 jaw chuck is a must for any one wanting to do even semi serious work. I'm sure you will have your own creations rolling down the track in no time.

Here is the thread that ultimately lead to me buying my South Bend lathe.


http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/24/aft/122352/afv/topic/Default.aspx

You can see my other two children in the first picture and the SB 10" in the last posted picture. I just got the head of the Bridgeport mill reassembled and am just waiting on one belt I didn't have. Next I need to rewire some stepper motors and other switches and then it will be time to see if all those 40 year old printed circuit boards in the cabinets still work. My shop is on the verge of coming to life but my wife is also about ready to bring a new life into the world (our first) so that might slow me down a bit. I just look at is as I'll have a little apprentice soon.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

congrats on the lathe (I just read the entire link you sent) and on the new one (child) on the way. 

Your lathe looks in almost the exact condition as mine and I'm debating whether to leave it as is (keep the old workhorse grimy look) or repaint it, which probably will do nothing to improve operations. Also, that might mean taking it apart and not being able to get it together just right, especially spindle bearing adjustments. 

The manual you're asking about is H4 Bulletin: Keep your Lathe in Trim by SB. "The motor should be inspected frequently and kept in good operating condition. ... The commutator and brushes should be kept in good condition and properly adjusted. The motor should be cleaned and lubricated regularly." 

That doesn't tell you much, right? In another manual, which I can't recall, it mentions repacking the motor and gets somewhat more specific but I can't recall seeing anything about adjusting commutators and brushes. 

Electricity wise, I'm wondering if the cables and plugs and stuff need replacing. They look pretty ratty, but seem to work fine. 

Anyway, I've got a bunch of manuals for South Bends 9 and 10" that I've collected (people actually make money selling these on eBay despite the fact that they're free!!!). Shoot me an email and I'll send this manual and any others you like. [email protected] 

One of the things I'm finding is that when I ask questions about getting my lathe in shape, I keep getting advice from experts that I need to spend more time and money on such things as new wicks, getting this book or that book, new gaskets and so on. Already purchased 3 types of oils so hope that will get me started.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Here's one piece of advice that I think might be helpful that I received. It is to purchase the following: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuild-Man...527?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230a60e89f 

I just purchased this. I'm guessing the wicks and stuff have never been changed and that oiling is probably the #1 thing to do and if a wick is full of debris, it may hinder good operations and cause failure?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm guessing they have to be pounded in.Wrong!! A quick smacking hand insertion of the chuck onto the arbor, and the arbor into the tailstock should be all that's required. Friction will do the rest. If you pound it in it may damage it.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks, last night I tried pushing the arbor (arbor same as taper (MT)?) and it got stuck inside so I can't pull it in or out now. I did it by hand, so I'm at a sticking point.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Here are the tapers I'm using for the chucks. Are tapers the same as arbors (terminology?) 

http://www.cdcotools.com/ 

type in search engine of that site item # 21323 since no direct URL link is given to see what I mean. 

Looks like I might need to take the taper apart to get it into the chuck as I see a place for a hex tool


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, last night I tried pushing the arbor (arbor same as taper (MT)?) and it got stuck inside so I can't pull it in or out now. I did it by hand, so I'm at a sticking point.Ah, so you see how well friction works.









I went looking for a Youtube video on this (a picture is worth a thousand words) and I found this one. Good info on Morse Tapers (and other kinds)...



As for getting it out, if you don't have a removal tool, open the chuck and rest its backside atop a vice so the arbor freely extends through the jaws - DON'T tighten the vice. Insert a wooden dowel through the chuck so it rests on the arbor and give it (the dowel) a quick rap with a hammer to knock the arbor loose. Make sure you keep your hand under the arbor to catch it as you don't want it to hit the floor and get dinged. Like the video says, they rely on the friction of a good mating contact all around.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks;he shows how to remove it, which I probably need to do but my ultimate goal is to get the taper into the chuck. I tried pushing it in by hand but can't so I'm guessing I need to use a sledgehammer or something? But after watching this video, it says I need a lead hammer


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHNdrl7KKNc&feature=related



(they should have a Lathe For Dummies book. It I ever learn everything I might write it myself as it takes a dummy to write a Dummies book)


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you sure the chuck and arbor have the same taper? There are several different taper designations and specs.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have never seen a lathe (or an advert specs for one) that has the same taper on both the head and tail stocks. There must be some learned reason for this, but the best I have been able to guess is that the manufacturers can sell twice as many fittings of they are different... Assumming you want to turn between centers you still need two, whether they have the same taper or not, but with different tapers you need to buy two different chucks, two "sets" of collets, and two of anything else that you might want to use in either the tailstock or the headstock. 

But I still have a gut feeling that there is some more important reason (than profit) to make them different. Can anybody here explain what that reason might be?


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave - Did you buy the exact part numbers I sent to you? If so the 2 chucks had the same 33 Jacobs taper and the Lathe has the 2 Morse taper. As I noted you must clean the chuck and arbor well with a degreaser and brakeclean. Its a slight press fit for the arbor onto the drill chuck. That slight press fit is just a single firm tap with a brass hammer or a block of wood between the end and a steel hammer. 

As to the tailstock, You simply slide the chuck and the arbor onto the hole making sure that the ram is not all the way in the tailstock. One firm slide is all you need. Be sure you keep the tailstock hole clean of chips and oils. Just a rag with degreaser. If it is you can just turn the handle a couple of turns. To remove the chuck from the tailstock just turn the wheel so the ram gets pulled in all the way and it will feel like it bottoms out but five it one more turn and the chuck and arbor will loosen from the morse taper. 

As to the Sempers post. The headstock you want the largest taper or opening. The collets you use for the headstock you would never need to use on the tailstock. Also you would never need or want to use a drill chuck on the headstock. The tailstock always has something mounted into it. The headstock usually has something mounted on the thread and uses the hole for material pass through.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave 

These were the part numbers I sent you: 

Drill chucks 25012 and 25013 buth are 33 Jacobs mounting. 

Arbor 21323 MT2 -33J qty 2


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Thanks, Jay, I'm just trying to get the tapers into the chucks (not into the lathe itself); I thought I could just push it in but I'll try tapping it in; just was afraid of damaging something; all the parts came through just fine, including the additional item, the wedge quick change tool 

So degrease the taper, chuck and the tailstock arbor, maybe with a clean cloth. Brakeclean? Isn't degreaser enough?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Feb 2012 10:58 AM 
I have never seen a lathe (or an advert specs for one) that has the same taper on both the head and tail stocks. There must be some learned reason for this, but the best I have been able to guess is that the manufacturers can sell twice as many fittings of they are different... Assuming you want to turn between centers you still need two, whether they have the same taper or not, but with different tapers you need to buy two different chucks, two "sets" of collets, and two of anything else that you might want to use in either the tailstock or the headstock. 

But I still have a gut feeling that there is some more important reason (than profit) to make them different. Can anybody here explain what that reason might be?
Semper , While I know next to nothing when it comes to machining, I would think that it has to do with the size of the particular tool that needs held firm and preform the work required. or in the case of the lathe which end of the tool you are addressing (i.e. head or tail stock). The various sizes of a particular taper type (e.g. 0-7 & 4-1/2 MT (Morse Taper)) are related to the size of the work to be performed, and the associated relationship of the resulting axial load to radial load placed on the holding or cutting device (or in the case of the lathe possibly both) keeping either from spinning and/or chattering when it shouldn't. Additionally, in some instances the design includes tools within the respective taper type that make use of a "draw-bar" that assists in this regard.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

well I'm totally bummed and ready to quit. I spent about 30 minutes trying to bang the taper into the chuck; actually 2 of them; 2 tapers and 2 chucks. I think I broke the chucks as they now grind when I try and open them; it's totally screwed up 

they are still not seated, as the taper's groove is still about 3/8" or so from the chuck's insides 

It's hard to try to describe what I did so I took a video 

any help or advice appreciated before I stab myself in the eye 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnVXFpPCuU8 


I did use the correct tapers and chucks as Jay has outlined above, btw


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Well MLS is pissing me off! AGAIN. This is my 4th try at replying. 

Way too much force Dave. The taper was seated when you pushed it in, all it takes is a single light tap on the end of the arbor as we discussed at my house. Rememebr that the chuck was supposed to be fully open and on block of wood. Didnt you say that you couldnt remove the arbor when you put it in the chuck by hand? You were ready to go at that point. Most likely if you say that it grinds and does not operate smoothly that one is prob pretty damaged.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Also here is whats on the Jacobs site fot chucks. 

http://www.jacobschuck.com/drill-chuck-install.asp


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

thanks


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Posted By SE18 on 24 Feb 2012 06:49 AM 
Here's one piece of advice that I think might be helpful that I received. It is to purchase the following: 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebuild-Man...527?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230a60e89f 

I just purchased this. I'm guessing the wicks and stuff have never been changed and that oiling is probably the #1 thing to do and if a wick is full of debris, it may hinder good operations and cause failure? 
Hey Dave, Did you ever install all of this on your lathe? How did it go? Did you find you needed it once you got in there? My 3 phase converter was tested and works over the weekend and my wife let me know my oil set came from Blue Chip today. It's time to get the lathe oiled and turned on.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy - Did you get your lathe running yet? I ended up buying a VFD to run the my 3 phase Heavy 10, It has a 1hp motor. That way I get variable speed without having to change the belt speed. Though using the 3rd speed is not recommended for over 30mins or so. The head gets too hot. My friend keeps his in the 2nd speed all the time.

I have to gring the jaws on my chuck. I have the grinder all set up just need to make up a ring to hold the jaws. The ring I have is too big as it was for a 8" chuck and I have a 6"


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Hey Jason. I haven't had it on yet. I bought the South Bend recommended 4 Oil set from Blue Chip. 

http://www.bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=26 

I have oiled the motor (3in1 Motor oil) I also got the spindle bearings oiled. They drank it up and finally hold steady full. Then I got confused. Dose any thing else get grade A? The counter shaft? Or does that get grade B along with the gear boxes? Does the apron get B or C ? What about the lead screw bearing on the tail stock end B or C? Is there a reservoir for way oil or do you just drop that on as needed? Ive down loaded all four of the south bend publications Blue Chip has on oiling,cleaning,leveling and keeping in trim, 

http://bluechipmachineshop.com/bc_blog/?page_id=776 

but still am not clear. What do you think? I'd like to finish oiling and turn it on this weekend. 

Oh BTW, My 360 block and heads passed magniflux and are being machined right now!


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy, I only have spindle oil and Way oil. Anything I dont use the spindle oil on gets a machine oil. Most everything gets the spindle, its good for any and all rotating parts in a bushing and to lube open bearings. My friend who has been machining for his lifetime uses the same. He uses his machines 8-10 hrs a day almost 365 days a year. 1-2 people working daily. Some of his machines he has for 20+ years with no issues. 

My 360 still purrs like a wildcat. I sill want to get some single chamber flowmasters and redo the exhaust as its all messed up from the trans swap. Had to turn of the tailpipes as it had a bend that was in the way of the trans. Though I like that its all run in frame so I dont loose any ground clearance. Thoguh it makes the floow a bit warm. Good in the cold though. Overall I'm oretty happy with the motor, I went with a cam for low to mid range so it tops out at 5500. Though with another cam my motor is built for 8000 though I'd loose the low end power. Not what you want in a Jeep but someday if I put the motor in the AMX Ive always wanted Id have a bad ass street rod. I did end up going with 9.5:1 compresson from the stock 8:1 

http://www.compperformancegroupstor...oduct_Code=10-214-5&Category_Code=A8CAMSHFTXE


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Good news every one! ( Futurerama ) I turned on the lathe last night and she purred like a kitten.

Thanks for the oiling tips Jason. I'm going to give the rest of her a once over this week. One thing I noticed is that the gear rack that the apron used to move back and forth has all of it's screws so lose it's about to fall off ! So I'll start there. I need to go through my inventory of cutting tools too. Looks like I'm of and running.










Sounds like we are using the same theories for building our motors. I'm building my to spin far faster that I probably ever will. 360 is a big motor for a little CJ-5. I'm all in favor of keeping an AMX on the road. I love those. I'll send you some pictures when I get her together and ready to go in.


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## richardson121 (Sep 26, 2017)

I have been interested in buying a lathe for hobby work and have done research and talked to people about their experiences. I was convinced that the Grizzly was the best choice for a few reasons. Basically, the level of quality in all of the lathes in this category is about the same since they are all manufactured in China by just a couple of manufacturers, so this was a wash in terms of which brand to choose. It came down to features, included accessories and convenience.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

good suggestion: read the whole thread.

I have the very first lathe mentioned in this thread... it is not from China.

It's better than a Grizzly in terms of quality.



Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

oops, where's my coffee?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, maybe a bit rough, but tacking onto the end of an 18 page 5 year old thread, and not reading post #2 .... 

To be constructive, you can make most Chinese stuff work well, but you have to do some smoothing, adjusting, etc. My Sherline out of the box works perfectly.

You pretty much get what you pay for.

Greg


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

As Greg said, Get the highest quality machine you can afford.

Sherline, Taig, little machine shop, and micromark are the top 4 small lathes and mills in no particular order for brand new ones. Each have their pros and cons.

Sherline and Taig are great machines. Top quality.

Littlemachineshop micromark grizzley and harbor freight are all versions of the same base. Seig x1 

Littlemachineshop and micromark are the two best seig variants. Best fit finish and quality control of the Chinese lathes.

Larger swing than the Taig or sherline.

Harbor freight has the worst quality control and the most problems needing to be sorted, considered pre-built kits, close to rough castings. Needing complete tear down clean lube reassemble and align before finding more problems to fix before completing alignment. Sometimes needing the ways to be ground out of the box.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have posted this story before on this site, but not in this thread (where it may actually belong!)... so here goes:

I bought the MicroMark Mini-lathe. I had fantasies of whittling out my own live steam locomotive using it.

I was severely disappointed in the machine. It is quite "weak" structurally. In taking any sort of big "bite" in the work piece, it is obvious that the bed twists and warps. Getting accurate dimensions is very difficult (for me). Set the depth of cut and make dozens of passes over the same place of the work piece and it keeps removing material... when do you quit taking material off???? I was very frustrated!

I was buying magazines to read advertisements to see what was available in the way of a "REAL" (read that, "He Man"�) lathe that I could buy to replace this "toy" I had mistakenly purchased. I was sweating the prices I was finding... $6,000 for a fair to middlin' sized lathe. Hmmm... maybe I could stretch the budget and get that $7,000 one... oh, for just a few dollars more I can get one with this other feature... then wow, for just another hundred or so I could get one with some other feature. WOW, another $500 and it has a much stronger bed and a bigger motor... but how do I get a one ton lathe into my basement??? Round and round I went; price, size, capability, features, price, weight, add-on's, price, tooling, price, size, price, dollars, price, etc.... oh dear!

Then I met (via the internet) a man (Ted Milson) from England that said he was coming to Iowa to visit his son in Iowa City and wondered if there were any garden gauge tracks in the area where he could run his live steam "Project" engine that he had made. We corresponded a while and since my track was not installed yet, we settled on meeting at a fellow CVGRS member's house on a Sunday afternoon where a new loop of track had just been installed. I would bring my Aster Mikado and he would bring his "Project" engine. Several other members of the CVGRS came also.

Now, the only "Project" engine I had ever heard of was a "Backwoodsy", "Kludge" of a scraggly vertical boiler 0-4-0, with a single oscillating cylinder with a chain drive to a plain set of wheels. I am NOT impressed by this sort of thing, but figured in the interest of international relations I could feign some interest in this, uh... "Locomotive"(?).

When we met, Mr. Milson was interested in seeing my Aster Mikado and I was suitably proud of it. After a few minutes he said, "Well, I guess I'd better get my engine ready." I watched as he brought up a very nice wood carrying case and opened it. From it, he withdrew the nicest looking "British" outline 0-6-0 locomotive! WOW! For a moment, the thought crossed my mind that he was embarrassed to bring his "Project" engine and had purchased a commercial engine to bring instead.

I generally don't like the looks of English locomotives, but... it was a beautiful locomotive!!!!

As he prepped it, someone asked where he had purchased it (glad it wasn't me asking!). He replied that he had built it himself, then added, "Well, the wheels and cylinders are from castings, but I turned them on my lathe."
I heard that word, "lathe" and my ears perked up! If this was the kind of work that could be turned out on a lathe, I SERIOUSLY wanted to know which lathe he used!!!!!! So I asked.

His reply? "It's that little Mini-lathe from MicroMark. It is small, but it does what I need it to."

Nice man, that Ted Milson... saved me a lot of money that day!!!!! (Thanks, Ted!)

I have since purchased a Mini-mill (a "Cummins" unit, which is similar to the MicroMark mill, but with an R-8 spindle instead of an MT-2). It is also a weak structured machine and is frustrating and a bit cumbersome to set up (tram), just like the Mini-lathe.

I have learned that I have no "talent" at running a machine tool, BUT... with patience and time, I have managed to make a few items that have proven to be worthy of keeping, even if not much to brag about. I don't think I will ever acquire the skill to make my own Live Steam Locomotive from scratch (or castings), but I like what I have and will continue to use it and I see no reason to spend any more money for "bigger" machines.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

A very good live steamer here , a long time ago advised me not to go for the cheap Chinese ones, as if you have to do heavy duty work it will be too feeble for it, I followed his advice and found a Myford in metric at a decent price quite a few years later but I don't regret.


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## Boogiesg (Jul 31, 2020)

I owned a 7x 12 for many years and invested several hundred dollars upgrading the stock unit. 4 jaw chuck, extended cross slide etc. learned a lot about lathe operations. It would turn 360 brass just fine but mild steel was pushing it and just forget about any kind of stainless steel. I’m sure others here will have experiences to the contrary but I also recommend going with a used American unit 9” of swing or better. Or Chinese if you get a BIG one. Something heavy because those little Chinese lathes flex noticeably. I sold mine when I realized it was never going to be able to turn a new axle for my race bike. A capable lathe with more than an inch of bore that could turn 4140 cromoly wasn’t that much more than what I invested in the mini lathe.


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