# Aster K4 Opinion



## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

Hi All,
I am currently looking for an aster k4 ( obviously the live steam version) So for starters if you know of any available you can send me a PM. I would also like to hear of some expieriences are they good engines. The ones that I have seen always run well both coal and butane fired. I have heard of boiler troubles, are they "safe". I have heard that the boiler issues can be pretty much fixed by flipping the burner upside down and making it a radiant burner. Is this true? All help is appreciated. 
Thanks,
Brittany


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Britstrains on 09 Aug 2010 08:58 AM 
Hi All,
I am currently looking for an aster k4 ( obviously the live steam version) So for starters if you know of any available you can send me a PM. I would also like to hear of some expieriences are they good engines. The ones that I have seen always run well both coal and butane fired. I have heard of boiler troubles, are they "safe". I have heard that the boiler issues can be pretty much fixed by flipping the burner upside down and making it a radiant burner. Is this true? All help is appreciated. 
Thanks,
Brittany
Brit
Excellent engines. The situation with boiler can be easily maintained via keeping water level high and turning the burner upside down with a radiant burner setup. So, are they safe...without a doubt otherwise I would not recommend one to you if there is one available. Last one I saw was in England when a similar post here on MLS inquired about the K4. Hope this works out for you.


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

I know of at least one that's for sale on the Chaski home machinist forum:
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=87270&start=0


I may have seen another, but I need to dig around to find it and make sure my memory isn't deceiving me. 

Good luck!

- Anthony


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Brittany, 

I think I've owned two or three K4s over the years....and the boiler problem was only with a early run of the boilers. I can't remember the exact numbers but as Charles mentions some of the risks can be easily mitigated. It used to be that if you had one of those that Aster would replace it but alas that I think is no longer the case. 

My primary problem with the K4 were related to the Aster burner system and lack of pulling power, in my humble opinion. The burner system fixes were done years ago from pioneers like Kevin O'Conner. He, in fact, used one of my K4s as the basis of his article on the subject. The gas regulator values were modified by him and others to regulate the gas flow instead of the traditional "on/off" approach by the original Aster design. So, that's a relatively easy fix. 

My issue with pulling power I think was more a function of the cars I owned at the time (some J&M heavyweights..) Apparently, I owned too many of them because the K4 was unhappy dragging them around the track. My suspicion is that it handles less hernia-inducing cars quite well and you should have litttle difficulty. 

I do know of one here in WI with a friend. I think he was talking about selling so he could obtain an S2. I'll email him for you to see. 

Best regards, 

Sam


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Sam
Always good to see you posting.... How many J & M coaches? We have pulled a set of 6 cars with relative ease.


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## steamupdad (Aug 19, 2008)

HERE'S A LINK TO ONE THAT MIGHT BE STILL FOR SALE. I PICKED UP A PRETTY ABUSED K4 LAST YEAR. CURRENTLY UNDER RESTORATION, REPAINT AND ALCOHOL CONVERSION. SO FAR I'M VERY PLEASED WITH IT. GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR SEARCH.http://www.wagonandcarriage.co.uk/P...tives.html


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## steamupdad (Aug 19, 2008)

http://www.wagonandcarriage.co.uk


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## themetalman (Jan 3, 2008)

[email protected] claims to have one for sale for 2500.00 ad is in steam in the garden swap section.


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

I have already emailed [email protected] and am awaiting a response from him.


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi Charles, 

Yes, I had a few cars more I think...those were the salad days of my live steam life....I think I sent you a K4 gas regulator valve long long ago.....Now, you and Ryan have come so far in your knowledge and skills. 

The only other problem with a distressed K4 is replacement parts likely will be difficult to come by. If you are skilled as Charles and Ryan, then perhaps no problem. Otherwise, you may find some unwanted frustration. 


Good luck, 

Sam


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

these guys (wagonandcarriage.co.uk) will not sell anything to anyone in the USA. I have no idea why, but its their business.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

For the right amount of money, they would sell. Wouldn't be worth it though.


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## wetrail (Jan 2, 2008)

Ive bought items from Peter Marshall in the past with no problem.

Jerry


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By John Allman on 10 Aug 2010 11:59 AM 
these guys (wagonandcarriage.co.uk) will not sell anything to anyone in the USA. I have no idea why, but its their business. 
Quite a few British companies who deal in live steam models will not sell to the USA, one or other of the two companies called Barrett/Barratt is one, and W&CW are another.

This is because of the horrendous level of litigation endemic in the USA and the 'sue for millions' culture that has grown alongside it. The thought of selling a live-steam loco to somebody who then burns themselves on it, and getting sued because there was nothing in the instructions that said 'do not put this locomotive in your stupid mouth' is what keeps more than a few live-steam builders out of the USA.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

wait, we can't put the smoke box in our mouths? There goes my interest.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By iceclimber on 10 Aug 2010 04:20 PM 
wait, we can't put the smoke box in our mouths? There goes my interest. 

It is quite permissible to put the smokebox in your mouth, but similar to pipes, cigarettes and cigars (with which you must keep the 'lit end' in your mouth), you are NOT allowed to "exhale".


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## Captain Dan (Feb 7, 2008)

On the internet, I see people get a twist in their panties over a lot of nonsense, but I guess your statement is the one that twists me up. Tac, your statement is total rubbish and inflammatory. With just a little thought, any rational person would see the costs of suing a British company or individual by an American would be cost prohibited. The locomotive would have had to kill someone to even think about such a thing. And that is not going to happen!

First, the American would need to get an American lawyer. Then, that lawyer would need to hire a British barrister(?) From my financial experience with a lawyer writing my will , I can tell you that the UPFRONT money to sue someone in England would buy two or three big Asters. And that would just cover the retainer. That would not even come close to paying for an actual court trial. I am not a lawyer, but I cannot believe that any American lawyer would take on any contingency case unless the likely payout from a British court was in 6 figures. Way too many hurdles to overcome. The only way for that kind of payout would be some catastrophic event. In that case, if the British business sold to a british citizen and they had the catastrophic event, the business would get sued in your own system. How many catastrophic events have you heard of in Gauge 1 of any type? How much money would a British court award for burn? I bet it would be a lot less that it would cost me to sue!

Businesses and individual people can sell to whom they please, but if they are using litigation as the excuse, they just don't want to deal with international shipping or some other bother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rant over! Back to trains.

Dan


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

I have heard of some pretty silly lawsuites and awards in the UK over the years, in my opinion the UK and the USA seem to be about the same. Besides who but a diehard live steamer is going to buy a live steam kit and be excited at spending many many hours putting it together, and then fire it up and run it. If a steamer can accomplish this then the likelyhood of any serious accident and resulting litigation is reduced to zero. Very low risk.

Thanks
Steve


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Quite a few British companies who deal in live steam models will not sell to the USA, one or other of the two companies called Barrett/Barratt is one, and W&CW are another.

This is because of the horrendous level of litigation endemic in the USA and the 'sue for millions' culture that has grown alongside it. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 






Terry, I totally agree. All you have to do is watch the television any day here in the U.S. and you will see one ambulance chasing lawyer after another trying to sink their teeth into another frivolous law suit. And, many times greedy people play the game with them to bilk millions and millions of dollars. Are all lawyers bad..............of course not. But I understand what you mean when you talk about the "Sue for millions litigation endemic culture" that has sadly taken over America.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not about to be insulted on a public forum by anyone without defending my comment. 

The actual words from Mr Barratt/Barrett Senior on his stand at the Gauge 1 MRA show were - 'We do not sell our kits or boilers in the USA because of the chance of being sued if anything went wrong with one.' 

And THAT is my response to the person who called me a liar, and from whom I expect a public apology. 

We ARE talking about a nation that has a well-deserved reputation for winning wacky and expensive law suits - the woman who successfully sued a fast-food chain because her hot coffee was actually hot, the woman who successfully sued another fast-food chain because she fell over and cracked her butt on the ice cream that HER own child had dropped....the list is endless. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

THIS THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED! CUT THE CRAP ON LITIGATION AND THE BRITS FOR IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL QUESTION. 

Will


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

As a newcomer, most threads on almost any message board get hijacked by the regulars to either do inside jokes or use it as an inside chat room. 

However, I want to add, that it doesn't matter the cost of litigation sometimes, if people think they are right and entitled to some money, they will go through what it takes if they get a lawyer who does not advise them well. That is how some people buying lotto tickets who qualify for food stamps. People desperate for a large payout will do illogical things sometimes.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By thumper on 11 Aug 2010 04:55 AM 
THIS THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED!
---------------------------------------------------------



_*Oh my gosh*_......................, like that has never happened. Terry, you are correct. And if some Americans don't get it, then they are part of the problem. The truth hurts sometimes. The fact is that many, many Americans have become a bunch of sue happy whiners and there is a ambulance chasing lawyer around every corner. In the end we all pay with higher prices on just about everything. 
Now, so as to not further "_Highjack _" this thread..................The Aster K4 is a true classic. One of those Asters that anyone would want in their stable of engines.


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## steamupdad (Aug 19, 2008)

YA' KNOW, IF I NEW THIS WAS GOING TO START A HISSY FIT JUST BY POSTING A LINK TO SOME EURO COMPANY THAT OBVIOUSLY DOES WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO....... WAIT, WHAT? SEE, NOW YOU GUYS GOT ME GOIN' TOO. WHAT WAS THIS POST ABOUT AGAIN? 
YEAH, IF YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON THAT K4, I WOULD DO SO. I'LL POST SOME PICS OF MY PROGRESS ON MY K4 SITUATION.


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

Hi All,
I am very pleased to announce that I am now the proud owner of an aster k4. It is missing some detail parts but I have a way to get the missing ones i believe. I am very excited as I have always wanted one. I will be picking it up next week . Anybody have any aster k4 parts electric or steam laying around that they may want to get rid of. Let me know if you do. 
Thanks for everyone's help.
Brittany


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## steamupdad (Aug 19, 2008)

THATS GREAT NEWS. IF YOU NEED ANY HELP WITH YOUR "NEW" K4, I KNOW THAT THING INSIDE AND OUT AND CAN WALK YOU THROUGH WITH ANY PROBLEMS YOU MAY HAVE AND CAN TELL YOU PROBLEMS (FACTORY) IT MAY ALREADY HAVE AND HOW TO CURE IT.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By steamupdad on 11 Aug 2010 07:19 PM 
YA' KNOW, IF I NEW THIS WAS GOING TO START A HISSY FIT JUST BY POSTING A LINK TO SOME EURO COMPANY THAT OBVIOUSLY DOES WHAT THEY CHOOSE TO DO....... WAIT, WHAT? SEE, NOW YOU GUYS GOT ME GOIN' TOO. WHAT WAS THIS POST ABOUT AGAIN?  
YEAH, IF YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON THAT K4, I WOULD DO SO. I'LL POST SOME PICS OF MY PROGRESS ON MY K4 SITUATION. 


Sir - YOU are the one doing all the shouting.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

SteamUpDad: I see from your post count that you may be new to forums in general, so maybe you do not realize that using all capitalization in your post is interpreted as shouting, usually implied to be angry as well... 

And the link you posted gives me a page that says, "Error 404, Forbidden", which indicates to me that the site if blocked by somebody... dunno who, --- could be my computer, could be their system not liking to send data to the U.S. or anybody in between. 

Well... I just tried again and got through, but also got a warning that I now have a "bot" (malware) on my PC that I have to go get rid of... again, not sure why, but it sure seems to have come from that site. I ain't too happy right now and am considering using some capitalization of my own... not blaming you, just feel like shouting! :-(


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Brit
Looking forward to see you and the K4 at the PLS annual Labor Day meet. You will soon have an roundhouse full of steam locomotives! The real challenge will not be firing the engine but obtaining the detail parts.....


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Let’s get one plain and simple fact into this debate. Public liability insurance which all legitimate small companies carry costs US$ 1500 for sales within the UK, to mainland Europe, Asia and Australasia. It cost US$ 15,000 if you add in the USA and Canada. For that simple reason companies like Wagon & Carriage Works and Barratt Engineering prefer not to supply North American. It is just simply uneconomical; the small amount of business that is done does not pay the sky high insurance premium. 

Now lets talk about the Aster K4s.


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

Hi All,
Actually just to give an update. The gentleman who I purchased the engine from found the bag of missing detail items as he was packing the engine away last night. So I am getting all of the parts with it they will just need to be put on. I am getting very excited.
Brittany


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## steamupdad (Aug 19, 2008)

did not realize i was "shouting", oops. And yes, first time posting comments, etc. My apologies for not knowing the proper code of conduct here. i just found it funny how a link to some sight created such a stir so i thought i'd throw in my 1.5 cents. jokingly, of course. 

Does anyone have the tender air hoses or glad-hands for an aster k4? Would be much appreciated. Fabricating some of the detail parts is becoming a pain. Also, an extra alcohol tank laying around that some one can part with? One similar to the aster mike. 


thanks,


(quiet as a mouse)


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

steamupdad? just order the parts you need from your Aster dealer.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Posted By Britstrains on 12 Aug 2010 05:18 PM 
Hi All,
Actually just to give an update. The gentleman who I purchased the engine from found the bag of missing detail items as he was packing the engine away last night. So I am getting all of the parts with it they will just need to be put on. I am getting very excited.
Brittany




Congrats. Post some pics when you get it please.


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

Hi All,
Here is the link to an album with a few photos of the k4. Remember this is before the details have been put on.
http://picasaweb.google.com/1183649...directlink


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Looks good. Glad you got the details. Besides the builder's plates, what else were they? Coal load? Wish I could afford the Aster model, but I will be happy with the AML K4 I pre-ordered. Whether it comes on time in spring 2011 or a year later, I will at least have a while to save up.


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

There are lots of other things. The major ones would be the marker lights, the air hoses, and all of the artificial piping and sand lines that come from the domes.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Will any of those parts require soldering to attach? Be sure to put up the pics when it is all together. Looks good in the shape it is now though. Is this your first live steam engine? What did you have before if not? Before I ever fire up the AML K4, I would like to attend a live steam-up somewhere.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

While Dan is absolutely right that Aster owners should first check with their dealers for Aster parts, it is important to add that parts availability for older engines is sometimes quite limited. The PRR K4 in question was offered in 1984 and is now a 26 year old product. So owners should not automatically assume that parts will be available from Aster. Parts that wear like side-rods, crossheads and crosshead guides may no longer be in stock. Ditto for many detail parts. But if you do want to try and get parts directly from Aster, be sure to furnish your dealer with the proper part numbers and descriptions from the instruction manuals. 

Possibly limited parts availabiity is especially important when you are considering the purchase of one of these older models. Since parts may not be available, it is critical to examine and test these models before purchase to make sure that it is working properly and not missing parts. And since you may need parts in the future, it is very important to get the manuals when you buy a used Aster. If there is no manual with the engine, be prepared to pay $30 or more for a xerox copy from Japan. But on a more positive note, there is a source for some of the detail parts for the K4, and that is Southern Digital in Georgia (sodigi.com). Paul Lator has made pewter reproductions from originals of many of the now out-of-stock K4 detail parts. They do have to be painted, drilled and tapped for installation, but this is still much better than the out-of-stock situation from Aster Japan. 

Good luck with your projects. 

Ross Schlabach


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By iceclimber on 13 Aug 2010 12:05 PM 
Looks good. Glad you got the details. Besides the builder's plates, what else were they? Coal load? Wish I could afford the Aster model, but I will be happy with the AML K4 I pre-ordered. Whether it comes on time in spring 2011 or a year later, I will at least have a while to save up. 
Dear Mr iceclimber - of all the fine details that Aster provide with their beautiful models, a coal load is not one of them. We have to make our own.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

Iceclimber,
I am not sure what is required to attach all parts and will find out when the engine arrives. This is not my first engine I have an aster schools, thunderbolt, coal fired ruby, and a butane fired Ida (ruby). However an Aster K4 has always been on my wish list. 
Brittany


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Cool.

No coal load huh? BTW Tac, it is not necessary to address me by "Dear Mr. Iceclimber". Comes off rather condescending







, regardless of your intentions. Thanks though for the tip about the coal load. I bet a creative person could really make a swell one which would look good.


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Surprisingly enough Terry (tac) the Aster K4 is one loco where you do get a coal load!

Also good to know that other parts like marker lights are available from other sources. Aster's own supply of spares for this model and also the NYC Hudson are not very good these days but I would suggest to any owner who is lacking parts for these or other past Asters to try their luck by getting their Aster dealer or distributor to place a Spare Part order.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By iceclimber on 13 Aug 2010 03:02 PM 
Cool.

No coal load huh? BTW Tac, it is not necessary to address me by "Dear Mr. Iceclimber". Comes off rather condescending







, regardless of your intentions. Thanks though for the tip about the coal load. I bet a creative person could really make a swell one which would look good.



Sorry about that, Mrs tac Senior raised me to be polite to folks I didn't know. And I'm nothing if not condescending. Anyhow, seems that I told you a lie - in spite of being told by a K4 owner that he'd had to make his own coal load like I did for my Aster BR01. The AML sparkie version has one, BTW, so I'd hazard a guess that the steam version will, as too.

Apropos your desire to see a live live steamer in action to get some idea about what you'll need to know - I'm pretty certain that if you gave us a rough idea whereabouts you are located [state-wise, that is], you'd find the invites almost too much to deal with. We're really a friendly bunch here, in spite of the odd spat.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks Tac, sorry I was a bit paranoid and sensitive. 

I live in Orlando Florida. The reasoning behind me going with the K4 for my first one is simply a money matter. I will save up for the K4 and in the meantime will try and learn as much as possible from this site and people who frequent them. I know I have so many noob questions. I've climbed Denali so I am not a total moron with things that run off of liquid fuel and will be as safe as possible. Thanks.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By iceclimber on 13 Aug 2010 06:47 PM 
Thanks Tac, sorry I was a bit paranoid and sensitive. 

I live in Orlando Florida. The reasoning behind me going with the K4 for my first one is simply a money matter. I will save up for the K4 and in the meantime will try and learn as much as possible from this site and people who frequent them. I know I have so many noob questions. I've climbed Denali so I am not a total moron with things that run off of liquid fuel and will be as safe as possible. Thanks.  Iceclimber - bleeve me, you'll get a whole lot of help, advice and plain old-fashioned common sense help from the live-steam guys on this forum - we are all here for the fun of running a REAL locomotive, whether it's a teeny oscillator or a twenty-thousand dollar work of modelling art. My advice to you is to get into your local live-steam group ASAP - I'll bet you won't be standing around with your hands in your pockets for long.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund

PS - I've flown over Denali, does that count?


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## Captain Dan (Feb 7, 2008)

To Mr. (tacfoley) - (sorry, for the impersonal name, but I don't know who you are)

I would like to respond to your liar comment. I did not call you a liar or even had any thought about untruthfulness or the like. My intent was to disagree with you about your last sentence in the Aug 10 2010, 03:00 PM post.
However, in rereading my comments to you, I was rude and by my own comment at the end of the message, in a 'rant.'

I do apologize to you.

Dan


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I live in Orlando Florida

There's an active Florida Garden Railway Society *[url]http://www.fgrs.org*[/url] and quite a few of the guys run steam engines.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Captain Dan on 15 Aug 2010 09:33 AM 
To Mr. (tacfoley) - (sorry, for the impersonal name, but I don't know who you are)

I would like to respond to your liar comment. I did not call you a liar or even had any thought about untruthfulness or the like. My intent was to disagree with you about your last sentence in the Aug 10 2010, 03:00 PM post.
However, in rereading my comments to you, I was rude and by my own comment at the end of the message, in a 'rant.'

I do apologize to you.

Dan



Dan, you are a gentleman and I happily accept your words. tac is my name for the 99.9% of the folks I know who cannot pronounce it, and it's near enuff.

Best

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I know Dan, and Tac, you are correct, he is a genlteman, as are most of us live steamers.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Hey we are all here just to have fun and learn from others. 
I have learned a lot from this form over the past several years and made many good friends though this forum.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Brittany hi. 
when you get your K4, there is one thing you can do which will give you a safety margin on the boiler .. 

The water gauge glass has a very! small working range [because the firebox flue is large] the water must be carried high in the glass , if you can see an air space its too low!!! but a new top fitting can be squeezed in under the cab roof, which will raise the top guage nut a 1/4" or so and this will assist in avoiding boiler hurt.. 

Gordon.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Brittany,
Here is how the water gauge was modified on my Aster NYC Hudson boiler.
As you can see, it increases how much water can show before it drops below the top of the flue.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Congrats on the K4. Great engine. David, that water glass looks like a good improvement. I wish that all engines had much longer water glasses. They would be so much easier to see. Even on a engine as large as a BB the sight glass is tiny. Go figure................


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 16 Aug 2010 11:41 AM 
Brittany,
Here is how the water gauge was modified on my Aster NYC Hudson boiler.
As you can see, it increases how much water can show before it drops below the top of the flue.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada








Brit
Until then run with a wet stack as soon as you see water below the top fitting to be safe.


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

The K4 should arrive tomorrow. I hope to run it this weekend at a meet. To make sure it runs safely. I should Flip the Burner and make it into a radiant burner and not let the water get below the top fitting in the sight glass right? Anything Else. And also is there a way to know if the engine has a light or heavier boiler on it. (assuming it was not replaced) Number or anything? Thanks For all The Help.
Brittany


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Brit, 

You do not have to flip the burner to run the engine safely, in fact I would advise against doing so until you are used to the engine's running quirks. They will run just fine with the stock burner system, albeit less efficiently than a radiant setup. 
Be sure to keep the water glass full (engine just on the edge of priming) at all times though. Start with a completely full glass and run with the axle pump on until the stack/safety release is wet. Open the bypass for a few laps (3-4) and then close it again. There is no real sweet spot on the K-4 bypass, as the taper of the valve is very short and at a high angle. 

Lighting a K-4 can be tricky. Since there are multiple flues ahead of the burner area, the gas tends to burn there instead of back in the large flue. There is a fairly easy way to do it however: 
-open the valve on the burner fully (1.5-2 turns) 
-slowly open the control valve on the tender tank until you hear a slight hiss 
-light through the front door...chances are it will not pop back immediately, if so see below 
-press down on the tender control valve to momentarily cut off the flow. As soon as you hear the distinctive pop, let go of the valve and all should be good. I find this method a lot less hazardous than pulling out the burner (which can be impossible when it is hot) and lighting it in the cab, then reinserting. 

The filler valve on the K-4 is quite poor. It is not a venting type like the Ronson and tends to have a poor connection. You will know when the burner is too low or the engine needs gas: They howl like a banshee when the pressure is too low or there is not enough flame. Adjust accordingly to maintain 3.5-4 bar on the pressure gauge. Do not fill the fuel tank up more than 1/2 way or so, as it tends to draw liquid, which equals a big barbecue out of the front end. 

Looking at the pictures, you have a high serial (#298), and having seen enough of them to tell by eye, you appear to have the thick wall boiler. This does not mean that it is ok to run with less than a full glass though, as the water gauge is still inaccurate to the internal water level. 

Congratulations on the purchase of a beautiful, mint condition K-4! Looking forward to seeing it running on Labor day weekend.


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

Thanks for the help Ryan.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

This may have no relevance with the K4! 
As I have mentioned elsewhere in a different thread, the ONLY way that I could ever get the NYC Hudson to light was to pull the burner back a little into the cab, and then with the suction fan running, and the bbq lighter going, turn on the gas and then push the burner back in with a long nose pliers once alight. 
Then I could remove the suction fan as the flame knew where it was supposed to go! 
Again, if it is anything like the Hudson, expect it to 'howl' ALL the time. 
Contrary to what Ryan suggests, I tried with the gas in all kinds of position, and I never got it to be quiet, hence the conversion to alcohol. 
However, maybe the K4 is better. 
Good luck, 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 17 Aug 2010 04:47 PM 
This may have no relevance with the K4! 
As I have mentioned elsewhere in a different thread, the ONLY way that I could ever get the NYC Hudson to light was to pull the burner back a little into the cab, and then with the suction fan running, and the bbq lighter going, turn on the gas and then push the burner back in with a long nose pliers once alight. 
Then I could remove the suction fan as the flame knew where it was supposed to go! 
Again, if it is anything like the Hudson, expect it to 'howl' ALL the time. 
Contrary to what Ryan suggests, I tried with the gas in all kinds of position, and I never got it to be quiet, hence the conversion to alcohol. 
However, maybe the K4 is better. 
Good luck, 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada Seems quite relevance to the Hudson and yes it does howl all the time with a stock setup..... but on the topic of the K4 the method via Ryan can certainly give one a successful firing toward getting up to steam.
Brit, I hope someone at the steam up can guide you along based on the procedures outlined. If not put the engine on rolls and learn to control it without the need to chase the locomotive.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

David. 

The NYC Hudson is certainly a bit of a banshee. Unlike the Hudson, the K-4 smokebox door opens, which saves the suction fan (although a very useful trick to getting steam up quickly without wasting gas) and fiddling with the burner in the cab. I suspect that the air intake on the Hudson is not large enough as delivered to allow for a proper a/f mixture. I have never quite figured out what makes the harmonic appear at all settings on them, but for some reason, the K-4 and Western Maryland shay are markedly better. I will be looking one over in the next few weeks and may come up with a simple fix...although your conversion is justified and the proper fuel to use!


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Ryan, 
I have always assumed that it is something to do with the longer length of the boiler and the diameter of the small flues. 
I had all the parts ready to do a 'ceramic' ring burner as written up in the G1MRA newsletter #197, but then a Mikado boiler came my way. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By rbednarik on 17 Aug 2010 07:31 PM 
David. 

The NYC Hudson is certainly a bit of a banshee. Unlike the Hudson, the K-4 smokebox door opens, which saves the suction fan (although a very useful trick to getting steam up quickly without wasting gas) and fiddling with the burner in the cab. I suspect that the air intake on the Hudson is not large enough as delivered to allow for a proper a/f mixture. I have never quite figured out what makes the harmonic appear at all settings on them, but for some reason, the K-4 and Western Maryland shay are markedly better. I will be looking one over in the next few weeks and may come up with a simple fix...although your conversion is justified and the proper fuel to use! 
Charles and Ryan - I know of an Aster Hudson that does not howl - in fact, it just hisses gently, and I have movies of it to prove it. It belongs to a G1MRA acquaintance of mine, well-known to Andrew Pullen as well, who has many live-steamers. I might be going up to see him tomorrow, depending on the weather, and I'll ax him then why his Hudson is so quiet...

Best

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## boilingwater (Jan 27, 2010)

Wow, all this chatter over those old engines..I know I had 3 K4s and 3 Hudsons over the years...Both were great for removing the hair off my hands. They.used to be the bane of old timer Aster steamers...the Aster valve systems --both the filler valves and the Aster gas adjustments need replacement. I think I used the old Ronson filler valves and also replaced the Aster gas valve with something that you could adjust--Norm Saley did a lot of the original work for me. That made the filling and firing a lot easier. As far as the noise, I don't remember the Hudson being much of a noisy beast once the surgery on the burner tubes was performed. But it has been a while....and Aster has learned that alcohol systems are so much easier to deal with..... 

Sam


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess it should be mentioned that the only Hudsons I have seen truly howling like a banshee are those that have not had the burner converted to a Radiant poker style or some variant thereof. I do like the ceramic fire ring that David mentioned above as it is a great alternative to the radiant style poker. Even just the fine mesh wrapping is usually sufficent to quiet the burner to a hiss. I have done a few radiant burners for the K-4, WM Shay and Hudson in the past and all have been silent (except for the hissing you mentioned, Tac) and very efficient. Run times were easily doubled on a tank of fuel and the stack produced a wonderful display of steam trailing over the rake of coaches.

Even more so in the rain:


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