# Proposed Layout Review Needed



## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Guys ... I need your help. I’m in the process of building a new garden railroad and am at the planning stage for the final track plan. I’ve made a few posts already showing you how the new pond and waterfall came out. Most of the major landscaping and terrain forming is already done. All that is really left is the fun part --- putting down track. Of course there is a lot of planting left to do, but that can wait until Spring time. I don’t want to start any flame wars – not aluminum vs. brass, or Code 215 vs. 332, or battery vs. track power, or wood ties vs. plastic, or any of the other things we sometimes disagree upon. What I need is for a few of you “experts” to look over my current track plan and proposed operating scheme and let me know if you see anything ridiculously wrong. Here is what I have in mind:
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Layout Concept*

The layout is a 1:20.3 scale garden railroad. In general, it is meant to represent a narrow gauge short line set in the 1939-1953 timeframe. The layout is loosely based on the Rio Grande Southern Railroad and includes several notable RGS bridges and named locations. Other features are named after my granddaughters, famous (or infamous) model railroaders, or some of my other favorite places. The principle themes of the layout are mining, timber and livestock operations. The emphasis is on operation over long stretches of single-tracked main line connecting a few visually isolated locations where the theme activities occur.
*Garden Description*
The garden is an oval-shaped raised bed, approximately 150 feet long and 60 feet wide. It is enclosed by a landscape block wall. The wall varies from less than a foot high at the rear of the garden to over two feet high at some places at the front. An operating water feature consisting of ponds, a stream, and a waterfall is included in the garden. Some of the plants were specifically chosen to mimic prototype vegetation on the railroad, but most were selected to provide a variety of colors and textures, to provide view blocks, or for general aesthetics. Pathways are designed for both operating efficiency of the railroad and visitor enjoyment of the garden. A low-voltage lighting system highlights various garden features and allows the railroad and garden to be utilized at night.
The black circles within the garden show the location of existing large deciduous trees. These are all oak trees unless otherwise noted. Water features are shown in blue. Conifer trees, small shrubs, and perennial plants are shown in green. Pathways are shown in gray. Annual plants and groundcovers are not shown. Railroad buildings are not shown. 
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*Link to larger resolution image: Hi-res image 

*Layout Specifications* 
There will be approximately 1000 feet of track on the layout when completed. Maximum mainline track gradient is limited to 1%. Minimum mainline track radius is 14 feet. Minimum siding track radius is 10 feet. The radius is shown for the tightest curves. Mainline track curves without a noted minimum radius are 20 foot radius or greater. Major bridges and tunnels are shown. Drainage culverts under tracks and pathways are omitted for clarity. Tracks are drawn in black, blue, green, red, orange or brown with the following meanings:
· Black – Primary loop (425 feet)
· Blue – Secondary Loop (375 feet)
· Green – Transition tracks between primary and secondary loops
· Red – Industrial sidings
· Orange – Reversing track for Secondary Loop
· Brown – Storage tracks

All rails are Code 215 aluminum except frogs, points and pathway crossings which are Code 215 nickel silver. All rail will be hand spiked to cedar ties except for a few high maintenance or difficult to access sections (such as in tunnels) where plastic tie strips will be used. Most of the track will rest on a ladder roadbed support system built with ¼” x 1½” PVC lattice strips and 1¼” PVC pipe. A few high density areas (such as the Rico yard and the rolling stock storage shed) will utilize concrete roadbed. The lead track into the Rolling Stock storage shed is a five-way stub turnout utilizing a section of flex track for the movable portion. All turnouts will be scratch built. They are predominately of the point type but a few stub type turnouts are included for visual interest. Turnouts on tangent track utilize #8 frogs. Curved turnouts utilize #10 frogs. All turnouts are manually operated.
*Bridges and Trestles*
Several metal deck girder bridges will be used on the layout, particularly at water crossings. Two famous RGS prototype timber trestles will be represented. They are Bridge 45A, the long Ophir Loop trestle, and Bridge 44A, the Butterfly Trestle. Both will be built as 1:20.3 scale models of the actual prototype trestles, insofar as practical. The only significant difference is that the model trestles will be built on 1% grades, as opposed to the prototype trestles which were on 3% grades.
*Operations*
Several different modes of operation will be supported. In the unattended or “open-house” demo mode, two trains can be run simultaneously without operator intervention, one each on the primary and secondary loops. In the operator mode, up to three trains can be run simultaneously on both the Primary Loop and the Secondary Loop. Each train requires appropriate operator control. Primary Loop passing sidings are at Rico and Sawpit. Secondary Loop passing sidings are at Rico and Vance Junction. 
A point-to-point mode will be supported for logging operations. Loaded log trains leave Spruce Knob, enter the Secondary Loop, pass through Rico and Vance Junction to Kalin Junction, transition to the Primary Loop, pass through Rico and end at Sawpit. Empty log trains leaves Sawpit and travel in reverse direction back to Spruce Knob. Multiple loaded and empty trains can operate simultaneously. A hidden track (through the tunnel) allows loaded log cars to be quickly moved from Sawpit back to Spruce Knob without using the visible mainline tracks. Similarly, unloaded log card can be quickly moved from Spruce Knob back to Sawpit.
An out-and-back mode will be supported for livestock operations. Loaded sheep cars depart from Sheep Meadow, travel through Vance Junction to Kalin Junction on the Secondary Loop, transition to the Primary Loop, travel through Rico, Ophir, Sawpit, Kalin Junction and back to Rico, transition to the Secondary Loop, and return to Sheep Meadow.
In addition to the log loading and unloading switching operations at Spruce Knob and Sawpit, there are numerous other sidings available for on-line way freight switching operations:
1. Rico – Rolling Stock storage tracks off of Primary Loop.
2. Rico – Industrial siding off of Primary Loop adjacent to rolling stock storage shed.
3. Rico – Industrial siding off of Green Transition track.
4. Rico – Industrial siding off of Secondary Loop.
5. Sheep Meadow – Stock loading siding off of Secondary Loop.
6. Vance Junction – Coal pocket siding off of Reversing track
7. Ophir – Ore loading siding off of Primary Loop.
8. Sawpit – Industrial siding off of Primary Loop.
9. Kalin Junction – Industrial sidings off of Primary Loop.


All comments are welcomed and much appreciated,


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob,

I'm modeling in 1/20.3 myself-D&RGW of the 1930's and 40's. I just wish I had YOUR real estate! You have nice long sweeping curves and room for all kinds of operations. I can find nothing that I would add to your plan. Let 'er rip. Looking forward to seeing the progress on your layout.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Impressive,

Like Gary, I look forward to your progress............


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Grand layout! What about a roundhouse and rail yard?


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Amazing! 

I love it! 

What design software are you using?


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

If it is of concern, Vance Junction looks to form a reverse loop. Is that what you had in mind?


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Posted By toddalin on 12 Nov 2010 05:12 PM 
If it is of concern, Vance Junction looks to form a reverse loop. Is that what you had in mind?

He identified that in the first post, Orange was the return loop.

Cheers


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

I am impressed with the Cozad Tunnel and Duncan Cut separated by a Hogback Ridge. Love the sweeping curves.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

It's every modelrailraders dream to build such a layout...


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## NedsTJ (Apr 4, 2008)

Posted By Bighurt on 12 Nov 2010 03:49 PM 
Amazing! 

I love it! 

What design software are you using? 
Very cool, nice plan. I'm also curious what software you used to convey the design?


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the nice comments. The layout was designed with Microsoft Visio. This is a software package that supports all types of drawings: electrical, mechanical, architectural, and many others. I use it to design model structures and bridges, to draw electrical schematics and printed circuit board layouts, and for general design or drawing purposes. For the layout design, I started by using two rear corners of my house as benchmarks. Using a 300-foot tape measure, I measured the distance from these two benchmarks to major landscape items in the yard such as trees and the pond. I transferred these measurements to Visio and drew a circle from each benchmark using the measured distance as the radius. Where the two circles intersected, I drew in the various objects using Visio's built-in stencils and varied drawing tools. After I had all of the major items drawn, I drew the perimeter wall and transferred its key measurements from the drawing back to the yard to locate the wall. The track positioning was done with a lot of trial-and-error on the computer until I had the tracks where I wanted them. I transferred key measurements back to the yard (things like curve centers, turnout point positions, etc.) using the benchmarks and the measuring tape.


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Posted By rhyman on 18 Nov 2010 11:13 AM 
Thanks everyone for the nice comments. The layout was designed with Microsoft Visio. This is a software package that supports all types of drawings: electrical, mechanical, architectural, and many others. I use it to design model structures and bridges, to draw electrical schematics and printed circuit board layouts, and for general design or drawing purposes. For the layout design, I started by using two rear corners of my house as benchmarks. Using a 300-foot tape measure, I measured the distance from these two benchmarks to major landscape items in the yard such as trees and the pond. I transferred these measurements to Visio and drew a circle from each benchmark using the measured distance as the radius. Where the two circles intersected, I drew in the various objects using Visio's built-in stencils and varied drawing tools. After I had all of the major items drawn, I drew the perimeter wall and transferred its key measurements from the drawing back to the yard to locate the wall. The track positioning was done with a lot of trial-and-error on the computer until I had the tracks where I wanted them. I transferred key measurements back to the yard (things like curve centers, turnout point positions, etc.) using the benchmarks and the measuring tape.

Visio....

Man do you know how hard it is to get Pirate MS software...

Looks good, I'll have to figure out something.


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

Off subject, but if you work for the government or go to school, check to see if they have a home use program. You can get a copy for $9.99. 

Bob, 
Looks great, saw the pics of the pond,when does track laying start? 
Steve


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Bob, 

Great looking layout! Only caveat I have is make sure to allow for enough thermal expansion. Our club has had issues with this and we are still working toward resolving them. 

Et al, 

Look into Draft Sight by Dessault Systems (maker of Solid Works). It is a AutoCAD clone (2D only) that is legal to download for free (Beta II). I have been experimenting with it at my office with good interchangability withe real AutoCAD. If you are familiar with AutoCAD, it is a breeze to learn, if not there is a great form available. (www.draftsight.com) 

Bob C.


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## Don Howard (Jan 2, 2008)

I am envious of your layout plan. 

One caution: 
Have you provided access to your tunnel below the Butterfly trestle? 
It looks to about 20 to 24' long, on a curve. 
There have been some posts here by people wishing they had provided more access. 

Please post progress pics.


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Posted By SLemcke on 18 Nov 2010 12:41 PM 
Off subject, but if you work for the government or go to school, check to see if they have a home use program. You can get a copy for $9.99. 


Visio is not part of the HUP. And for those not aware MS HUP offers Office proffesional at $9.95 plus $12 if you want the disk. There are qualifing requirements listed above.


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

The comment about thermal expansion concerns is quite valid, especially here in Oklahoma where the temperatures vary between single and triple digits. The Visio drawing below shows the method I am using to help alleviate the problem. First of all, let me reiterate that my roadbed is predominately being constructed from PVC materials. The risers (orange on the drawing) are pieces of 1¼” inside diameter Schedule 40 PVC pipe driven vertically into the ground at twenty-four inch intervals. The roadbed (gray on the drawing) is made from strips of ¼” x 1½” PVC lath (available from Lowe’s at $5.08 for an eight-foot long piece.) A strip is mounted on each side of the riser. The lath strips line up directly beneath the rails. Spacers (blue on the drawing) are 1.66” long pieces of 1” inside diameter Schedule 40 PVC pipe. The spacers are glued between the lath strips with PVC pipe cement at 6” intervals. The joints between adjacent lath strips are secured with 12-inch long splice plates (yellow on the drawing) made from the same PVC lath material. The lath strips are attached to the risers with 2½” long galvanized carriage bolts. The splice plates are attached to the lath strips with ¾” long galvanized carriage bolts. A 1/16” gap exists at each point where two lath strips meet end-to-end. The holes in the lath strips for the carriage bolts are elongated, allowing them to move slightly in the horizontal direction along the risers and within the splice plates. The wooden ties are attached directly to the tops of the lath strips with polyurethane glue. Code 215 aluminum rail is spiked to the ties. 1/16” gaps are left between adjacent rail lengths. This allows the metal rails to expand or contract above the ties at different rates than the PVC roadbed material beneath the ties. As an added benefit, since the PVC roadbed is bolted together in eight-foot long sections, I can easily remove a section from the layout, take it to my workbench, add the ties and rail while in a comfortable sitting position, and take the completed track section back to the layout and bolt it back in.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If I were you I would run out side right now and start laying track. 

It is a impressive layout.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Bob, 

I really like your plan, but have one question on your roadbed construction. When you bend a curve, how do you plan to make the PVC spacers work? Do you plan on gluing and clamping them until they dry at the time you are constructing the curve? 

Chris


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