# eBay question



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I am totally new to Ebay. Anyway, I tried to bid on some LGB track. Every time I put in a bid I was told I had been outbid by a dollar. That message came back immediately - almost before I had completed my bid. My question - am I bidding against some type of bidding program and if so, do I even have a chance of winning? Next, if that is the case, how do you set a program like that up?


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Item starts bidding at $1.00, someone has decided he would pay ultimately $100.00. His bids only increase if you enter a bid. Unless you bid $101, His bids will automatically outbid your.....say $20 bid, and so on.


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

You are up against a proxy bid. The other bidder has entered a max bid and eBay automatically bids for him. I usually also set a bid limit that I'm willing to pay for the item. Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Other people have put in their max bid price and the system is doing an auto minimum increment bid against you. 
You can chase the tail if you want but that's a suckers game. 
Pick your max bid price and nail it home in the last 10 seconds or less. Auctions all happen in the last few moments, the lead up is just foreplay. 

Andrew


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Picking the time to submit your last bid is a big guessing game. you might wait until 10 seconds before the end of the auction and someone else might pick 9 seconds and another person might pick 11 and yet another person send their bid 30 seconds before the end... your connection to the internet and all the servers that your packet of information has to go through might take 8 seconds to get there, so there are 2 seconds to go when it arrives. The person that picked the 9 second time might be connected such that their packet got there in 2 seconds, so your bid can trump their's (if yours was higher)... but that bid that was sent with 11 seconds to go, might have taken 10 seconds to get there and so would trump your bid by 1 second (if it was higher). And that 4th bid that was sent 30 seconds before the end of the auction might have taken two minutes to get there and is thus lost and ignored, even if it was for 10 times the winning bid.

Sure is a stupid way to run an "AUCTION"... what would you do if you hired a real life auctioneer to stand in front of a crowd to sell an item for you and he slammed the gavel down even though there were people still shouting higher and higher bids? 

Sure, there comes a time when the auction must end, but whatever happened to "Going once?... {pause} Going twice?... {pause} Going three times?... {pause} SOLD!" I have been to auctions where it gets to that last pause and someone shouts out a higher bid and then it goes on for another round of several bids and sometimes the final bid is by someone that was not at all involved in the bidding until the second or third time of the auctioneer saying that time-honored end-of-bidding spiel.

If "I" were to do an on-line auction, I would not end the bidding until at least 49 hours after the last bid was received. You could bid and check back in 47 hours, 59 minutes to see if someone outbid you and increase your bid if you wanted to... might take a long time to sell something but I would get the maximum dollar for it.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Semper, but but but the highest bid will win no matter what. The point of bidding late is to throw the other bidders so they can't decide they will go that one extra buck than maximum late in the auction. You should always first define your max price for any auction unless of course money is no object. 
You either bid for a bargain or bid for a win. Sometimes you get lucky, some times you don't. 
I often just sit for something I really want then bid a much higher price late while all the hopeful low bidders get left in the dust. 
Auction strategy is a weird science. For every trick there is a trap. Just depends on the other players or the dreaded shill. 
There is no advantage in forecasting your presence or how keen you are. 

Andrew


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Actually, if there is a lot of bidding activity, ebay will extend the end time till the amount of activity dies down a bit...


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

So how do you tell ebay what your maximum bid is?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jbwilcox on 02 Jan 2014 12:48 PM 
So how do you tell ebay what your maximum bid is? 
You tell them when you place your bid..


Lets say there is a freight car on ebay, and it has a "no reserve" price, and the current high bid is $5.
You think its worth $40 maximum, and thats the most you want to pay, so you put in your bid for $40.
you just "told" ebay your maximum price.

The auction does *not* then instantly jump to $40 as the highest bid!
instead it might jump to $6..

If no one else bids, you win it for $6. not $40.

So lets say you are now the highest bidder, at $6. (but your maximum is $40..but no other bidders can see, or know that.)

someone else bids $10. This is when ebay says "you have been outbid"..
(its you..you bid a maximum of $40)

So they put in $15..they are still outbid..
they put in $20..they are still outbid..
they can give up..or keep going until they pass $40, and outbid you..
then they become the highest bidder..

Lets say someone put in their maximum at $200.
you start at $40..you are outbid.
you try $50..still outbid.
you dont want to pay anymore than that, so you stop..

The price is now $51..(because of the guy who has a maximum of $200..he has said he will pay more than your $50..he is willing to go out to $200 maximum)
but you stopped at $50, so you are out..
If no one else bids, the guy who put in the $200 maximum wins it for $51.

Other people can jump in, bidding $70, $80, $120, whatever..
but if no one else surpasses the guy who said he will go up to $200 max..(he *really* wants that car you think is only worth $40! 
he will still get it..now he will win it for $121..because the last guy stopped at $120.
(it doesnt really always go up by only dollar..the higher the price, the higher it "jumps"..but thats the basic concept)

In reality, most people dont radically over-bid..
most things end up selling for about what they are worth..
many things dont sell at all, because sellers put on a stupidly high starting price..that no one will pay.
But if you start the initial price low, like $1 or $10, or "no reserve" at all..you will find the items true value..
you might not like it!  if you are the seller..but it is what it is..

Scot


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Great info, Scotty. You really describe well Ebay's built-in automatic bidding. 

The point of bidding late is to throw the other bidders so they can't decide they will go that one extra buck than maximum late in the auction. You should always first define your max price for any auction unless of course money is no object. 
You either bid for a bargain or bid for a win. Sometimes you get lucky, some times you don't. 

Well said Andrew. Know your max bid, don't go over it, and don't telegraph it if you don't have to. 

Used to be when I REALLY wanted something, I'd stay up late if needed, and hammer away in the last moments. But there are varying lag times, and it can be stressful. 

The downside of max bidding on Ebay is that it gets run up for all to see, and Ebay emails the prior highest bidder to up his ante. And there's time for that person to do something about it. But if you enter your max bid at the last moment (which is called a "snipe bid"), a few things happen. First, you've not been tempted to go over your max. Second, no one has time to react to your max. And third, if someone else's "snipe" is over yours, that's life; no harm no foul. 

This is why one often gets beaten out in the closing seconds of bidding: because people are using snipe software. That's kinda the second tier of auto-bidding you have to be aware of. Though Ebay doesn't offer snipe bidding, they allow it via 3rd party snipe software. A lot of people are using it, and sometimes paying a lot for it. Some of those products charge a percentage of each deal! But there's a freeware product though called "Gixen," FWIW. I described it some in this thread:
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

I bring it up because it's allowed me to decide my max, and not go over it (keeping me out of trouble a few times!). And, once in a while, snag a bargain.

Cliff


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Just a quick note, I suggest you always check the shipping costs. Some sellers may have inflated shipping, others reasonable. But that is always added to the total, so it pays to know what you are paying in total, including shipping, and then decide your max based on that 

Jerry


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

So in reply to Scotty,

To put in a maximum bid I have to be the first person to bid on the item, right?

If there is already a bid of 10.00 for example and I think it is worth 100.00 , if I now bid 100 dollars then if no one else bids would I then get the item for 11dollars or would I have to pay the 100 dollars which was my bid? Or if someone else did bid, would they have to bid 101dollars?


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

So I bid 57dollars for a box of 12 LGB 1100curved track. Shipping is 15 dollars.

There is 5 minutes left.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I assume if I win they will notify me by email. Then how long do I have to make payment arrangements?


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

What ifi decide at the last minute I do not want the item. Can I cancel my bid?


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

In your scenario of a $100 max bid, 
- a $10 bid by someone else would pull your auto covering bid of $11. If no one else bid, you'd pay that. 
- a $60 bid by someone else would pull your auto covering bid of $61. If no one else bid, you'd pay that. 
- a $99 bid by someone else would pull your auto covering bid of $100, your max. If no one else bid, you'd pay that. If anyone bid more, they'd get it. 

Here's some twists. 
- a $90 max bid by someone else would immediately pull your auto covering bid of $91. 
- a $101 max bid by someone else would immediately pass your max; the bidding would stand at $101 and you'd get a little email from Ebay, tempting you to go further. 

Some Ebay instructions: 
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html 
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/automatic-bidding.html 

Hope that helps JB, 
Cliff


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Posted By CliffyJ on 02 Jan 2014 03:17 PM 
In your scenario of a $100 max bid, 
- a $10 bid by someone else would pull your auto covering bid of $11. If no one else bid, you'd pay that. 
- a $60 bid by someone else would pull your auto covering bid of $61. If no one else bid, you'd pay that. 
- a $99 bid by someone else would pull your auto covering bid of $100, your max. If no one else bid, you'd pay that. If anyone bid more, they'd get it. 

Here's some twists. 
- a $90 max bid by someone else would immediately pull your auto covering bid of $91. 
- a $101 max bid by someone else would immediately pass your max; the bidding would stand at $101 and you'd get a little email from Ebay, tempting you to go further. 

Some Ebay instructions: 
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/bid-increments.html 
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/automatic-bidding.html 

Hope that helps JB, 
Cliff 
- a < $100 if someone else bids $100 your maximum auto bid of $100 wins since yours was first.

TOM


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

And THEN just to add a bit of spice some sellers provide "Second Chance" to buy items. 
I bought a 20' boxcar on a "Second Chance" that cost $5 less than the winning bid. The seller must have a bunch of them as the boxcar (Penn RR colors) is posted again and mine came in the mail today. I agree with everyone that said "Pick you Max price and stick with it."


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Roger that Alan, either that or the first buyer didn't pay up. 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/sm-second-chance.html


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Another thing to do on Ebay is to check the sold listings. No what items have sold for. Especially when looking at (Buy it now) items. Lots of phishing going on with Ebay sellers. Many buy it now items can be purchased at a lower cost from dealers like RLD, Reindeer Pass and other dealers that advertise on this site. Example: USAT Center copula caboose is listed on Ebay from $139.99 to as much as $230.00. Yet RLD sells them for $128.89.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

To put simply the eBay system will only auto increment people's bids by the minimum amount necessary to have a leading bid. 
I think it is $1 up to $100 value, then $2.50 up to $500 value then $5 up to $1,000 (or something to that effect). 
If two people bid the same max bid, the winner will be the first person that placed the bid. 
There have been times when I have found a rare item I did not want to miss out on winning and had not had the time to research it's value so I have bravely bid quite high to 'win' or perhaps not asked about shipping. I decide after, when I have had time to research things. If the price is way too high because of a fake shill bidder or if they try to exploit me on shipping I would be diddled BUT you can't get blood out of a stone so I just don't pay. Don't worry about the 'legal contract' or eBay coming down hard on you. They will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! 
Second chance offers is either someone that truly has a second item to sell or is a sign they were shill bidding on their own item to pump it up. 
Problem with second chance offers as a result from shill bidders who reneg, it is offered for your max price that was shilled up from only a low genuine price but it's your choice. 
If a winner renegs on paying, all their bids should be treated as invalid in the auction but it does not work that way because eBay wants their cut on the higher value. 
If you study the bid history you can sometimes spot the shill bidders as they tend to mainly bid on their own items and are fairly new users. 
As far as I'm concerned there is only a transaction in progress when both parties proceed or 'act' as specified. Up to that point it is all just all talk. 

Andrew


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Here's an excellent tutorial on Ebay bidding / snipe bidding: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXasH0RWdYQ 


It demonstrates that, in many cases, it all comes down to the (snipe) bidding in the last few seconds, leaving all the earlier bidding as almost irrelevant. 

I'm not trying to condone snipe bidding; but I AM trying to say that the system was always set up for it, that it is a regular factor in the process, and that it's better to know about it than not.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Don't bid more than you plan to pay, this shill stuff is goofy. Again, bid what you think something is worth, if you bid more, the only one exploiting you is you. no one had a gun pointed at you. As to not paying, that is BS and not terribly honorable. Just my opinion.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By cocobear1313 on 02 Jan 2014 06:17 PM 
Don't bid more than you plan to pay, this shill stuff is goofy. Again, bid what you think something is worth, if you bid more, the only one exploiting you is you. no one had a gun pointed at you. As to not paying, that is BS and not terribly honorable. Just my opinion. I have bid more than I thought something may be worth because I wanted it as a part of a collection then afterwards realized by the activity of other bidders that it was worth more. 
As for not paying, I have won auctions with specified shipping but ambiguous item details so I have asked the seller to refine afterwards to be ignored after many communications but then sent an invoice with shipping way higher than advertised and instructions to only pay direct into their bank account rather than me having any protection from PayPal. So I don't pay because they are typical scum generation of manipulators. 

(personal attack deleted - mod)


Andrew


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Andrew, 

You said a lot of good things, but re. the bidding and not paying, remember that the people selling large scale items are often guys just like us here, or selling for their dad or other relative, etc., and not a big store. Sure, they can relist, eventually, but it's a major pain. A few weeks ago, I sold a RR videotape, and the guy never paid. But I have to go through hoops to ensure he won't pay, because I AM HELD UNDER THE LEGAL CONTRACT even though he doesn't think he is, or should be. Emails, case opening, waiting, etc., and over a month later I get to relist. 

But maybe I'm not understanding what you meant to say. 

Cliff


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Cliffy, there are very good reasons I don't pay. I am a man of integrity who will not be manipulated. 
If you want to believe every manipulative princess that tells you what you have to do because of rules. I'm way past that socialist authoritarian crap.

It is usually international shipping issues with some dealers that causes problems which are not known prior to purchase. $250 shipping for a LGB 2 axle coach, Sure. 
Most eBay sellers are honest though but as soon as I smell BS. No deal. I don't care about the eBay contract. I have a moral one with myself and 100% feedback rating.

Andrew


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

The bottom line is you bid the max you are willing to pay. 

If you get beat out move on to another one.


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