# Why I am building an AD60 Garratt



## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

As a kid, I lived in Sydney mad on surfing, rugby, parties and girlfriends but indifferent to trains, having to commute to school on them daily. The exception was the Garratt. Whenever one passed, whether you were on a station or in a nearby street or other vantage point everyone, the cool guys, the athletes, the basket-weavers, the nerds, the housewives, the businessmen, even me, all turned to watch. Nothing compared to the vibration, that distinctive throaty beat (or off-beat) and the shear display of power. As I look back I now realise all my senses worked in concert to produce excitement generated by a smelly, dirty, heaving, noisy, beast of a steam engine. I have no idea how that happens but it did happen every time a Garratt dragged a coal train or heavy goods within earshot. I have had nothing to do with trains of any sort since but I recently saw an advertisement for a model NSWGR Garratt and sitting in front of a computer screen I got that same buzz I experienced as a kid. Again, I don't know how that happens but because I am now heaps older I just went with it, dived in and bought one. It is my first exposure to building any model anything, I am quite enjoying it and hope I can do it justice. Who would have thought eh!
My apologies for the rant but I started off this first email just to include a couple of links to Garratts working hard to explain my new found interest in building one but I appear to have become a wee bit carried away. 
However, if you have not seen one of these monsters working in the flesh I hope the vids transmit some of the excitement.
Cheers,
Al. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O22dS7JbAHQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6gEjZYFs0M&feature=related (Garratts up until about 6 minutes)


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Heee heee heee! You done been bit by the Live Steam bug... It just sometimes takes a while for the infection to really get a grip!


Welcome aboard!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Al: Welcome to the board. I can see why you like Garratts. That video looked like insane, crazy, raw power to me. Dump all the other stuff, except keep the girlfriend and the Garrett. She'll get hooked too. 


vr Bob


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

"My apologies for the rant but I started off this first email just to include a couple of links to Garratts working hard to explain my new found interest in building one but I appear to have become a wee bit carried away."
Many share your enthusiasm for the Garratt, it is a show stopper. Keep us posted on the build.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

You mean like this one...


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Al:
Some web sites that may help you:
Great Website:
A Complete list of Garratt Locomotives: http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/source.html

Beyer Peacock Locomotive Drawings: http://www.beyerpeacock.co.uk/Drawings/Beyer%20Peacock%20Locomotive%20Drawings.html
A Complete list of Garratt Locomotives : http://users.powernet.co.uk/hamilton/
16mm Garratt Owners & Operators Association: http://www.16mmgarratts.co.uk/
Metre-Gauge Beyer-Garratt 4-8-4 + 4-8-4: http://www.garrattmaker.com/

Many Garratt web pages via Wikipedia:
List of Western Australian locomotive classes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Western_Australian_locomotive_classes
Beyer Peacock Garratt Locomotives: http://www.beyerpeacock.co.uk/main/Beyer%20Peacock%20Garratt%20Locomotives.html


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Very impressive! I'm not sure what's available in terms of Australian rolling stock to pull behind the AD60, but looking at the train in the video, I was thinking those Aussie coal hoppers look a lot like the MDC/Piko smooth-sides.


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## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

Dear All,
Wow, what an active bunch you are. 
I am staggered that so many of you bothered to look at my post and many thanks to those who added their welcome, advice and information. All great stuff and most helpful. 
Only thing is, I am now mightily embarrassed for starting this post on the Garratt because it is obvious that you were all light years ahead of me.
However, I suppose the upside is that it gave me an opportunity to say hi. 
Just for info, I have completed the engines, tenders, boiler, frame and smokebox so the next big push will be to mate the smokebox and boiler. They want that airtight and it looks a bugger of a job anyway but we'll have a crack at it.
Cheers to all and thanks for your kind welcome,
Allen.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By bellcrank on 04 May 2010 01:43 AM 
Dear All,
Wow, what an active bunch you are. 
I am staggered that so many of you bothered to look at my post and many thanks to those who added their welcome, advice and information. All great stuff and most helpful. 
Only thing is, I am now mightily embarrassed for starting this post on the Garratt because it is obvious that you were all light years ahead of me.
However, I suppose the upside is that it gave me an opportunity to say hi. 
Just for info, I have completed the engines, tenders, boiler, frame and smokebox so the next big push will be to mate the smokebox and boiler. They want that airtight and it looks a bugger of a job anyway but we'll have a crack at it.
Cheers to all and thanks for your kind welcome,
Allen. 









This post is useless without pictures.









Are you in the G1MRA yet? If not, why not?

Best

tac
www.ovgrs.org
G1MRA #3641


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

what an active bunch you are 
We certainly are, and we try to be helpful. Don't hesitate to ask - and ignore the posts that sound a bit rude - some people don't read what they write!


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## bertiejo (Aug 11, 2008)

Thats a great video; its an Aussie version of the YouTube "Norfolk and Western-hauling coal" (I dont know how to post the video on this forum so you will have to Google it). If you listen carefully you can hear the difference between a compound and a simple articulated. The front engine is a compound Y6 and the A that is right behind it a simple and the difference in the exhaust beat is obvious. Please show us pictures of the build. bertiejo


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rwjenkins on 03 May 2010 09:34 AM 
Very impressive! I'm not sure what's available in terms of Australian rolling stock to pull behind the AD60, but looking at the train in the video, I was thinking those Aussie coal hoppers look a lot like the MDC/Piko smooth-sides. 


Rolling stock availability; Depends on the scale. Depends on if you want kits or built (plastic, wood or brass). Depends on how much of a prototypical rivet counter modeler you are. 

*Absolutely must have is a Canteen*, maybe two, pulled directly coupled behind the Garratt. Canteen, from what I found, is the So African and Australian name for what we call a tank car. Extra water for those long hauls across the Africa's or Australia's planes, not to mention probably relative small boilers limited capacity of the loco water bunker . I'd say half at least of photos of SA and Aussie Garratts have at least one canteen. If Garratts are double headed there is a canteen behind each Garratt (one between the two Garratts). 

I'll try to find my files and links to SA and Aussie rolling stock.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Chris. 
In NSW [AD60 owner] extra water tanks with AD60s where very uncommon..I cant recall seeing it in normal service.. and they where mostly described as 'Water Gins". 
the AD60s worked frieght on the main south line to Junee and in the West until the 60s and finished thier days on frieght and coal trains on the short North and Hunter Valley area. plenty of water plugs [USA term} in these areas and using them avoided hauling around the non revenue mass of a water gin!.. 

Gordon.


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## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

Thanks Pete, very kind of you to offer such backup to a rank amateur, I'm sure I'll need it. 
On the other matter, I was surprised but then thought that as this is an international forum I did not know their nationality, culture or whether english was their first language and they may be struggling to get their thoughts down. No biggie on here but never face to face at home. All good.
Cheers,
Al.


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## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

Hi Bertiejo,
Thanks for the lead to your vid but unfortunately I am presently in a country where it is very difficult to access but I will surely do so in the next week or two.
I don't know whether you experts could gain anything from my patchwork but if someone can tell me how to attach or post pictures to a post I will get a few up for you to critique. I cannot see any tab or button for attachments or to place pics within a post. Any help appreciated.
Best regards,
Al.


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## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

Chris and rwjenkins, yep, you are both right on the money, I was recently thinking of the old line "now you've caught it what are you going to do with it". I have heaps of problems in this area firstly ZERO experience. Then in no particular order, no track, nowhere to lay track as I live in a small town on a steeply sloping section in mountainous terrain, a minimum of 2 1/2 hours to the nearest bigger town that may have some Gauge One tracks laid, I know nothing of any clubs in region, nothing to pull and no idea how to drive the jigger. Ah, I like a challenge and a bit of work to do I reckon.
On the rolling stock issue I was thinking the same , the older style undecorated 3 chute coal trucks as in the vid is how I remember them. I have no idea which are the better manufacturers, the heavier weight trucks, the more robust, the better detailed, the better value for $s, or whether any of them will couple to a Japanese manufactured model of an Australian loco. Nothing much to worry about when I have not even finished the Garratt eh!
Chris, I would be quite interested in the pics of the water gin (canteen) as your post jogged my memory of seeing steam engines pulling these between the tender and the train but as Gordon said I can't recall seeing a Garratt doing so, especially around coast.
As a matter of coincidence I am off the South Africa this Friday to catch the final couple of Super 14 Rugby games and thanks to you lot prodding my interest, I will also be on the lookout for some SA steamers. Proud of yourselves, no doubt ha ha ha, and of course I'll let you know.
Regards,
Al.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Al

So long as you've got the image files located on a server someplace where they're accessible over the Internet all you need to do is use the HTML image element as depicted in the following image, in either the 'Quick Reply' or 'HTML' editor to include pictures in your postings.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By bellcrank on 04 May 2010 08:32 PM 
Hi Bertiejo,
Thanks for the lead to your vid but unfortunately I am presently in a country where it is very difficult to access but I will surely do so in the next week or two.
I don't know whether you experts could gain anything from my patchwork but if someone can tell me how to attach or post pictures to a post I will get a few up for you to critique. I cannot see any tab or button for attachments or to place pics within a post. Any help appreciated.
Best regards,
Al. 
Mornin', Al, from sunny UK. Apart from the obvious heartfelt welcome from one steam fan to another, I recommend that you join up with us as a 1st Class member. Read all about it in the sticky.

Although this forum is rightly touted as 'international', remember that it is a US-based forum, and around 90% of the membership here is either American or Canadian. The rest are, without exception, English speakers, or, at the very least, folks who can make themselves understood sufficiently well enough in that language that we don't need the services of a translator. If it should ever be necessary, then many of us - particularly those of us who spend more time in Yoorup than anywhere else - speak more than one language - I speak six - and I can get by in three others [enough not to get arrested, at least]. So don't worry about that aspect of the internationalism that you'll encounter here.

Like Shad says - All are very welcome, regardless of race, creed, colour, background or political/religious pursuasion - such things are left elsewhere while we unite in the thing that brings us all together in the fust place - a love of trains of any and all sizes.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/

PS - Off to Oregon tomorrow - Icelandic ash cloud permitting!!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

someone can tell me how to attach or post pictures 
Al, 

I suggested to Brittany that she get Picasa from Google [it's their image manager program and it is excellent.] Sign up for Google and Picasa lets you check which pictures to upload to their free web space. It's very easy. Then you just give us the link to the Picasa album and we peruse the pics at our leisure.


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## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

Hi Pete,
You must have sensed my ignorance of web picture storage as described in SteveC's email. However, I did get on it but cranked up with Flicker. I don't know the difference but Google and the country I am presently in are not best mates! 
I have uploaded some pics to Flicker and hope they are accessible.
When I return I will have more time and web facilities to get things posted properly.
I hope this works..................

http://www.flickr.com/photos/garrattbuild/sets/

Cheers,
Al.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Al, 
The Garratt looks great. Good photos. 
Enjoy putting it together, and take your time, otherwise it is all over and all you can do is take it all apart to have the fun of doing it again! 
Aster kits are great. I really must get another to enjoy putting one together. 
It looks like you have an incredible view out of your window. 
Where abouts are you living? 
NOT Sydney by the looks of it! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Al

Just so you see that it works.


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## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

NZ bro, Kiwi, just in Sydney as a kid.
Ha, I liked the advice on slowing it down a bit, this will happen naturally as I won't be home this month due rugby and ski season starts in early June.
Thanks for your comment on the pics but I reckon they are a bit boring in that they don't convey anything like the amount of detailed assembly involved. (I suppose that's because I did not think to take more pics as I groped along.) But when you get all the bits aligned, I agree it is a handsome jigger.
Regards David,
Al.


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## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

Ah Steve so cool, cheers. It looks good sitting there eh. I'll get this posting turnout sorted when I get back in a couple of weeks.
I know it's not appropriate on this forum so you can dump this if wish but just for info I went for a run to the airport & back on the Maglev. It is a hot, humid, smoggy day here and I was bored so I thought I would fill in some time. It is 30km each way, on the outbound trip it sat at 438kph and on the return run it could only crack 431kph. Both trips took 7 minutes, total 20 minutes city-airport-city so I then had to find something else to do!!. Cost was 80 yuan return. (By road & expressway is about 49km and takes around 40 minutes each way.) 
Bye for awhile,
Allen.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Allen:
When the Accucraft Garratt was anounced It hit a hot button with me and I became what you might call "struck" by the locomotives. It started research on types, where, when, designs, rolling stock and all the rest. I bought books and books, downloaded skads of stuff - well you get the idea. Above I listed a few of the links I collected. Below some more plus some pictures of favorites.

.pdf book on scratch building a 4-8-4 4-8-4 1:22.5 Garratt: THE GARRATTMAKER PROJECT (There's another great series on a scratch build big Garratt but as much as I searched for it I cannot remember where nor find it. I'll keep looking.)

If you search on Garratt:
1. South African Garratts
2. Australian Garrattts
3. NSW Garratts
etc., etc. You will come up with an enormous amount of stuff. 

When Aster announced their AD60 Garratt re-issue that cooked my goose. Unfortunateky the stock market had also cooked my (whatever) and the ASter became but a memory. However what I did learn from both the 16mm and 1:32 Garratt experiences is that rolling stock from british outline RR stock makers like Bandbright, Coopercraft, Tenmille, Talisman, Accucraft, etc. either wagons or coaches are fine used as is or with minor to considerable bashing as you like. For Australia two of the easiest wouldbe Sugar Cane wagons or Slate Wagons as they were so common. Without knowing which Garratt (at least on first reading or the thread) type and scale you are building it's a bit hard to taylor info and suggestions. 

I said a Canteen Wagon was a must and I stick by that - in the face of some expert opinions. Notwithsatanding Gordon's comment on Canteen wagons versus Water Gins, I do not remember comming across the latter name at all. I revisited a number of books I have on both SA RR (various) and Aussie RR and still do not find a mention. This only says that what I have does not mention it not that Gordon isn't completely on target. Anyway, one reason or detail I did not mention why the Canteen Wagons were so often coupled directly behind a Garratt is that the water was used to keep the Garratt's water bunker(s) loaded as the water bunker's weight provided weight on drivers to maintain the Garratt's pulling power. I cannot say specifcally which ones but many garratts carrried water alone in one bunkjer and some both coal and water in the second thus water was of more significance to performance. Any time spent searching Garratt loco photos will show just how common Canteen Wagons were (below).

While the AD60 class Garratt were large, they were not the largest, heaviest nor had the most tractive effort of the various Garratt classes: A Complete list of Garratt Locomotive Dimensions A number of 4-8-2 2-8-4 class Garratts surpassed the AD60 class. It is common to see 4-8-2 2-8-4 class of Garratt with a Canteen Wagon (even 2) trailing. 

The photo below is one of my favorites of the NGG16 Garratt, ACR - Alfred County Railroad (SA), because ther Garratt it is nearly all red. The ACR did have a dark red paint scheme that matches Accucraft's Garratt, but these were later than the model pictured below. The guy at the Cab dor that appears to be just hanging out there is actually on a swing out seat




















Gordon, this one's for you? 4-8-4 4-8-4 AD60 #6029: (Of course, we do not know for sure what's in those Canteen Wagons?)









Others:


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## rusty1219 (Jan 17, 2009)

while the AD60 does have 2 water gins behind it, its on a train buff tour in the 80's after the last days of steam on the NSWGR (1973) most water coloumns were already gone hence the water gins and pass carriages. the AD60's were 99% of the time freight only, they had enough water on board to travel across most of NSW if not there was always a water column within 100k's, as for rolling stock, "S" trucks they were the most common of the 4 wheelers and also LCH hoppers if you want to model newcastle coal the BCH hoppers like in the video were towards the end of steam, they moved anything and everything in the way of freight, there was a bloke making those carriages around here (sydney) out of resin, they look nice but their not cheap

ps 6029 as she is now 
http://project6029.blogspot.com/


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## gearedsoft (Jun 20, 2009)

I can recommend the next book. It is a pictorial of the AD60 class. 
Title: New South Wales Railways "60" Class 

Publisher: Train Hobby Publications
ISBN: 1-876249-70-6
50 pages with mostly color photos of the AD60 with their cargo. I have scanned most of them for my screensaver. 


PS I'm not a books salesman.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Photo upload test


(I was wondering why this was in a 10 year old thread, but I guess it's the same Garrett.)
You know that, now you have attached the photos, you can post them? Just right-click on the item on the "manage attachments" list, select "copy link location" and paste the link into the Post Picture box.


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## bellcrank (Oct 29, 2009)

Pete hello,
Sorry man I have no idea what I did wrong. I have held-off trying to post pics for years but yesterday decided to master this abstruse process, and until I read your reply, I thought I had done so. 
I have spent some considerable time this afternoon scrupulously following your advice but to no avail. I cannot find any of the terms, menu item or tabs you mention, therefore I deleted the test message until I at least gain a basic understanding of the esoterics of the website.
Yep same loco, been a bit busy over the last 11 years. Test steamed a few times, on trundles only, and now doing some minor fine-tuning before two small cosmetic jobs will see it completed.
Go well Pete,
Allen.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Allen, under this reply box is the option to Go Advanced.
Under that is Manage Attachments
Add your pics there and before posting, you can open each pic and paste it into your post, full size.
Once all pics are where you like them, post your reply....


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Allen, try this thread. It comes with pictures.


https://forums.mylargescale.com/32-...ing-pictures-without-your-1stclass-space.html


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Or you can try posting as I do
Move your photos into a cloud based server. I use postimg.cc
Then from the album you have created, open a photo
Rt click and copy image address
go to your thread and click on the camera icon (mountain in a yellow box)
click paste and ok
The blue address will show up in the text and go to the end of it and hit return
To see if it took, go to the bottom and hit preview post


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