# SMOKE?



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What makes the darkest, blackest smoke from a smoke unit?

Anyone the paramaters of anybodies smoke unit?

Volts, Amps, Watts? 

Who has the hottest heating element? 

JJ


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 23 Aug 2010 10:57 PM 
What makes the darkest, blackest smoke from a smoke unit?

Anyone the paramaters of anybodies smoke unit?

Volts, Amps, Watts? 

Who has the hottest heating element? 

JJ

Coal slurry? Photoshop? --- They all look wimpy and unrealistic, except maybe MTH or a custom aftermarket. Most smoke fluids today just plain stink and give me a headache, at least the old (toxic) Flyer stuff smelled like frankincense.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I've never seen anything that comes close to be black or dark. The best smoke units I bought and worked great where the TA units which are no longer available. Price was right to. Use the Proto smoke and you get lots of good smelling smoke. Lots of flavors. Later RJD


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I should also add, my preferred 'sound' is Glenn Miller on the stereo....... Again, those things just give me a headache. 

I worked a LOT of train shows next to guys peddling this or that smoke fluid, or sound system. -- All running full tilt from 15 minutes before the show opened til after it closed. --- The SAME guys would complain to the promoters about the 'noise and stink' if I ran a putt-putt steamboat for 10 minutes.... probably because it drew attention away from their noise and stink.


My other thought is, Have you ever wondered where all that 'smoke' goes? It's vaporized oil. It leaves a thin residue EVERYWHERE... including your lungs - outside this may not matter so much, but inside it can't be all that good. Yes it's less than the average smoker puffs out, but I don't think anybody has looked into long term exposure. Anyway, you pays your moneys, you picks your poisons... for me it isn't worth it. I haven't even bothered with fitting smoke units in my last 4 or 5 builds.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

JJ: 

1. Black smoke not possible 
2. I have some listings of various smoke units on my site. 
3. There's lots of discussion over the years here, and a long thread on the Aristo forum about their unit where we researched a lot on theirs. 
4. Heat of the element is not a good indication of how "well" it works. 
5. The only ones that seem to be available are the Aristo and the Massoth units or the ones from the toy tank or the model ship people. The USAT ones have been out of stock for a year reportedly, and the same for the MTH units, TAS is no longer making them apparently. 
6. I'm not even considering the non-fan driven ones, they are wimpy and burn out easily. 

Depending on your budget get the Aristo or the Massoth. more $$ = more smoke. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

[No message]


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want to raise the bar even higher, here's KM-1's version: Might cost you a few $thou to get it though because they don't sell it separately! 

http://www.km-1.de/dynamicsmoke4_3.wmv 

I think Massoth has the best aftermarket unit. They make an axle sensor kit and the smoke maker in two versions: 19V or 5V. I have use the 5V units and they take approximately 600mA to operate. The 19V takes less current (prob~200mA). Massoth also has a high efficiency element which makes even more smoke. Check out their website JJ--there are some videos there too. 

Here's a short example of the 5V unit in my LGB Heidi: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/cougarrockrail/MVI_4707.AVI 

Keith 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, while interesting, I think JJ was interested in something he could actually purchase!! That's why I did not mention all the other brands that cannot be obtained.

It would be nice to see the two 19v versions, not taking time to visit the Massoth site, I think they are $130 and $145 respectively. 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

So we have heard you do not like smoke. I think JJ was asking for some info on the subject as I guess he likes to use as a lot of us do. Later RJD


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Please let me rephrase since you took offense.... I don't like what passes for model smoke or model sound.... REAL coal smoke, REAL steam, REAL hot iron and oil. REAL sounds of a working engine (farm or locomotive) that you can feel through the soles of your feet, and REAL whistles that make your ears itch... THOSE I love and can't get enough of..... 

It's sort of like the difference between a 40 year-old single malt scotch and some rot gut watered down drain cleaner pretending to be whiskey. 


If you find a unit that is actually realistic, not just 'sort of', and it doesn't cost more than a new locomotive, I promise to try it.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 24 Aug 2010 08:25 AM 
I should also add, my preferred 'sound' is Glenn Miller on the stereo....... Again, those things just give me a headache. 

I worked a LOT of train shows next to guys peddling this or that smoke fluid, or sound system. -- All running full tilt from 15 minutes before the show opened til after it closed. --- The SAME guys would complain to the promoters about the 'noise and stink' if I ran a putt-putt steamboat for 10 minutes.... probably because it drew attention away from their noise and stink.


My other thought is, Have you ever wondered where all that 'smoke' goes? It's vaporized oil. It leaves a thin residue EVERYWHERE... including your lungs - outside this may not matter so much, but inside it can't be all that good. Yes it's less than the average smoker puffs out, but I don't think anybody has looked into long term exposure. Anyway, you pays your moneys, you picks your poisons... for me it isn't worth it. I haven't even bothered with fitting smoke units in my last 4 or 5 builds.





OMG............Are you done ? you sure do know how to SUCK the fun out of just about everythying you relpy to..............................









I kid cause i really do care.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 01:28 PM 
Posted By Mik on 24 Aug 2010 08:25 AM 
I should also add, my preferred 'sound' is Glenn Miller on the stereo....... Again, those things just give me a headache. 

I worked a LOT of train shows next to guys peddling this or that smoke fluid, or sound system. -- All running full tilt from 15 minutes before the show opened til after it closed. --- The SAME guys would complain to the promoters about the 'noise and stink' if I ran a putt-putt steamboat for 10 minutes.... probably because it drew attention away from their noise and stink.


My other thought is, Have you ever wondered where all that 'smoke' goes? It's vaporized oil. It leaves a thin residue EVERYWHERE... including your lungs - outside this may not matter so much, but inside it can't be all that good. Yes it's less than the average smoker puffs out, but I don't think anybody has looked into long term exposure. Anyway, you pays your moneys, you picks your poisons... for me it isn't worth it. I haven't even bothered with fitting smoke units in my last 4 or 5 builds.





OMG............Are you done ? you sure do know how to SUCK the fun out of just about everythying you relpy to..............................









I kid cause i really do care.
















OH yeah? CARE?

Prove it!




Send money!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well if that's the case you need a live coal fired steamer to complete your wish list. 

I like to try one of the Massoth but here again it's pricey and would like more info on how it works and what is needed for the install. Later RJD


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 24 Aug 2010 04:21 PM 
Well if that's the case you need a live coal fired steamer to complete your wish list. 

Got one, and another in the making.... but they won't quite fit through the bridges and tunnels on my layout, and they're hard on the track.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 04:12 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 01:28 PM 
Posted By Mik on 24 Aug 2010 08:25 AM 
I should also add, my preferred 'sound' is Glenn Miller on the stereo....... Again, those things just give me a headache. 

I worked a LOT of train shows next to guys peddling this or that smoke fluid, or sound system. -- All running full tilt from 15 minutes before the show opened til after it closed. --- The SAME guys would complain to the promoters about the 'noise and stink' if I ran a putt-putt steamboat for 10 minutes.... probably because it drew attention away from their noise and stink.


My other thought is, Have you ever wondered where all that 'smoke' goes? It's vaporized oil. It leaves a thin residue EVERYWHERE... including your lungs - outside this may not matter so much, but inside it can't be all that good. Yes it's less than the average smoker puffs out, but I don't think anybody has looked into long term exposure. Anyway, you pays your moneys, you picks your poisons... for me it isn't worth it. I haven't even bothered with fitting smoke units in my last 4 or 5 builds.





OMG............Are you done ? you sure do know how to SUCK the fun out of just about everythying you relpy to..............................









I kid cause i really do care.
















OH yeah? CARE?

Prove it!




Send money!












Dear Mr Semp,
Please dont get mad at me because my locos smoke better than your live steamers.................







If you have a paypal account i will send some $ some you can convert some to MTH smoke. HAAAAAAAAAAA


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Seems the best way to get black smoke is from electronic parts.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 04:58 PM 







Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 04:12 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 01:28 PM 
Posted By Mik on 24 Aug 2010 08:25 AM 
I should also add, my preferred 'sound' is Glenn Miller on the stereo....... Again, those things just give me a headache. 

I worked a LOT of train shows next to guys peddling this or that smoke fluid, or sound system. -- All running full tilt from 15 minutes before the show opened til after it closed. --- The SAME guys would complain to the promoters about the 'noise and stink' if I ran a putt-putt steamboat for 10 minutes.... probably because it drew attention away from their noise and stink.


My other thought is, Have you ever wondered where all that 'smoke' goes? It's vaporized oil. It leaves a thin residue EVERYWHERE... including your lungs - outside this may not matter so much, but inside it can't be all that good. Yes it's less than the average smoker puffs out, but I don't think anybody has looked into long term exposure. Anyway, you pays your moneys, you picks your poisons... for me it isn't worth it. I haven't even bothered with fitting smoke units in my last 4 or 5 builds.





OMG............Are you done ? you sure do know how to SUCK the fun out of just about everythying you relpy to..............................









I kid cause i really do care.
















OH yeah? CARE?

Prove it!




Send money!












Dear Mr Semp,
Please dont get mad at me because my locos smoke better than your live steamers.................







If you have a paypal account i will send some $ some you can convert some to MTH smoke. HAAAAAAAAAAA




















I was gonna embed a YouTube video here to show you what a Live Steamer can do







, but that would be quite cruel to the OP to show what he is missing by settling for a mere sparkie.









As for my PayPal account... HA! I ain't gonna fall for that one -- you just want my e-mail address for some sort of nefarious porpose.









(I really don't mind getting e-mails from Dolphins, but nefarious porposes I just won't with which to up put.)


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Just Real Live Steam


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 07:47 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 04:58 PM 







Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 04:12 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 01:28 PM 
Posted By Mik on 24 Aug 2010 08:25 AM 
I should also add, my preferred 'sound' is Glenn Miller on the stereo....... Again, those things just give me a headache. 

I worked a LOT of train shows next to guys peddling this or that smoke fluid, or sound system. -- All running full tilt from 15 minutes before the show opened til after it closed. --- The SAME guys would complain to the promoters about the 'noise and stink' if I ran a putt-putt steamboat for 10 minutes.... probably because it drew attention away from their noise and stink.


My other thought is, Have you ever wondered where all that 'smoke' goes? It's vaporized oil. It leaves a thin residue EVERYWHERE... including your lungs - outside this may not matter so much, but inside it can't be all that good. Yes it's less than the average smoker puffs out, but I don't think anybody has looked into long term exposure. Anyway, you pays your moneys, you picks your poisons... for me it isn't worth it. I haven't even bothered with fitting smoke units in my last 4 or 5 builds.





OMG............Are you done ? you sure do know how to SUCK the fun out of just about everythying you relpy to..............................









I kid cause i really do care.
















OH yeah? CARE?

Prove it!




Send money!












Dear Mr Semp,
Please dont get mad at me because my locos smoke better than your live steamers.................







If you have a paypal account i will send some $ some you can convert some to MTH smoke. HAAAAAAAAAAA




















I was gonna embed a YouTube video here to show you what a Live Steamer can do







, but that would be quite cruel to the OP to show what he is missing by settling for a mere sparkie.









As for my PayPal account... HA! I ain't gonna fall for that one -- you just want my e-mail address for some sort of nefarious porpose.









(I really don't mind getting e-mails from Dolphins, but nefarious porposes I just won't with which to up put.)




I think that you over think the value of what you say means anything to me ??????







nefarious Please im harmless................


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I was going to reply to this topic. But I am having so much fun reading the replies, counter replies, counter, counter replies, etc, etc, etc, that I don't now know whom to make a reply to.







Although this may give you something to cauugh about


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I quit smoking when my first child was born. I've never been impressed by any smoke unit, other than my American Flyer when I was 12 years old.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 08:23 PM 
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 07:47 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 04:58 PM 







Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 04:12 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 01:28 PM 
Posted By Mik on 24 Aug 2010 08:25 AM 
I should also add, my preferred 'sound' is Glenn Miller on the stereo....... Again, those things just give me a headache. 

I worked a LOT of train shows next to guys peddling this or that smoke fluid, or sound system. -- All running full tilt from 15 minutes before the show opened til after it closed. --- The SAME guys would complain to the promoters about the 'noise and stink' if I ran a putt-putt steamboat for 10 minutes.... probably because it drew attention away from their noise and stink.


My other thought is, Have you ever wondered where all that 'smoke' goes? It's vaporized oil. It leaves a thin residue EVERYWHERE... including your lungs - outside this may not matter so much, but inside it can't be all that good. Yes it's less than the average smoker puffs out, but I don't think anybody has looked into long term exposure. Anyway, you pays your moneys, you picks your poisons... for me it isn't worth it. I haven't even bothered with fitting smoke units in my last 4 or 5 builds.





OMG............Are you done ? you sure do know how to SUCK the fun out of just about everythying you relpy to..............................









I kid cause i really do care.
















OH yeah? CARE?

Prove it!




Send money!












Dear Mr Semp,
Please dont get mad at me because my locos smoke better than your live steamers.................







If you have a paypal account i will send some $ some you can convert some to MTH smoke. HAAAAAAAAAAA




















I was gonna embed a YouTube video here to show you what a Live Steamer can do







, but that would be quite cruel to the OP to show what he is missing by settling for a mere sparkie.









As for my PayPal account... HA! I ain't gonna fall for that one -- you just want my e-mail address for some sort of nefarious porpose.









(I really don't mind getting e-mails from Dolphins, but nefarious porposes I just won't with which to up put.)




I think that you over think the value of what you say means anything to me ??????







nefarious Please im harmless................




























"Harmless"? That is "mostly" what the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" had to say about Earth.

And as for you missing me? Ha... that's only because you are a lousy shot! (Or maybe I am just really good at duckin'!







)


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 08:56 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 08:23 PM 
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 07:47 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 04:58 PM 







Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Aug 2010 04:12 PM 
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 24 Aug 2010 01:28 PM 
Posted By Mik on 24 Aug 2010 08:25 AM 
I should also add, my preferred 'sound' is Glenn Miller on the stereo....... Again, those things just give me a headache. 

I worked a LOT of train shows next to guys peddling this or that smoke fluid, or sound system. -- All running full tilt from 15 minutes before the show opened til after it closed. --- The SAME guys would complain to the promoters about the 'noise and stink' if I ran a putt-putt steamboat for 10 minutes.... probably because it drew attention away from their noise and stink.


My other thought is, Have you ever wondered where all that 'smoke' goes? It's vaporized oil. It leaves a thin residue EVERYWHERE... including your lungs - outside this may not matter so much, but inside it can't be all that good. Yes it's less than the average smoker puffs out, but I don't think anybody has looked into long term exposure. Anyway, you pays your moneys, you picks your poisons... for me it isn't worth it. I haven't even bothered with fitting smoke units in my last 4 or 5 builds.





OMG............Are you done ? you sure do know how to SUCK the fun out of just about everythying you relpy to..............................









I kid cause i really do care.
















OH yeah? CARE?

Prove it!




Send money!












Dear Mr Semp,
Please dont get mad at me because my locos smoke better than your live steamers.................







If you have a paypal account i will send some $ some you can convert some to MTH smoke. HAAAAAAAAAAA




















I was gonna embed a YouTube video here to show you what a Live Steamer can do







, but that would be quite cruel to the OP to show what he is missing by settling for a mere sparkie.









As for my PayPal account... HA! I ain't gonna fall for that one -- you just want my e-mail address for some sort of nefarious porpose.









(I really don't mind getting e-mails from Dolphins, but nefarious porposes I just won't with which to up put.)




I think that you over think the value of what you say means anything to me ??????







nefarious Please im harmless................




























"Harmless"? That is "mostly" what the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" had to say about Earth.

And as for you missing me? Ha... that's only because you are a lousy shot! (Or maybe I am just really good at duckin'!







)




HE HE HE..............You win im all out of witty words today


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Madman on 24 Aug 2010 08:49 PM 
I was going to reply to this topic. But I am having so much fun reading the replies, counter replies, counter, counter replies, etc, etc, etc, that I don't now know whom to make a reply to.







Although this may give you something to cauugh about










Dan Agreed that thing is awsome, ive seen that video a couple of years ago and all i can say is wow. I wonder if any were made for people to buy and did anyone get any ? Ive never seen anymore videos of it. But very cool.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick: One of the guys in our club has one of these locos. It sure uses a lot of smoke fluid tho. Looks and sounds good too. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 25 Aug 2010 08:52 AM 
Nick: One of the guys in our club has one of these locos. It sure uses a lot of smoke fluid tho. Looks and sounds good too. Later RJD 

RJ, We need video of this thing going with some rolling stock behind it................... A quart of Mega Smoke about 10.00


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, that's another example of a smoke unit you cannot purchase.

From chat last night, I asked JJ if he got his question answered... no was the reply.... the question was about the unit that had the most smoke you could BUY....

This is it: from Harbor Models: (that is 1/2 inch copper pipe!)


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Correct Sir..........................


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

So Greg. Is the Harbor Models smoke unit actually available to purchase?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Uhh... I'd sure be setting myself up if I was mentioning that the posts about stuff that could not be purchased were useless. (someone would come in and bash me to a pulp!







)

You could google Harbor Models, I will post the links for you:

*http://www.harbormodels.com/Harborm...s/home.htm* home page


*http://www.harbormodels.com/site08/...smoker.htm* smoke unit page (under HARDWARE...ELECTRONICS.... SMOKE UNITS


Yes it is $99... JJ asked for the "Best" unit, which was explained to me as the "most smoke"... I believe this is the most smoke that you can buy... it's more than anything else I have seen... remember that is a 1/2" diameter pipe... 

There was no request for cheapest... or smallest... 


Regards, Greg


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## caferacer (Jul 22, 2010)

Greg I run them in my model r/c warships I added a drop of diesel and a drop of very black waste engine oil to the mix to make the darkest smoke around idea for my warshios to hide from the enemy from only lasts a few minutes over dosing stops the burner from going great smokers caferacer


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gregg, do you have any trouble with wicks clogging? I have not seen the insides of that smoker, would assume it uses some sort of wick to bring the oil up to a heating element. 

Overdosing? do you drip it right on the wick? 

Thanks, Greg


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## caferacer (Jul 22, 2010)

Greg over dose was too much waste oil and diesel one and one is the right brew the little fan throws a ton of air into the mix we changed ours to a model plane glow plug that heated up and switched off on a timer we fitted this as it allowed the pipes to burn like mad then shut down and reburn once cooled the boats packed in the shed ready for our trip to NZ so not 100 % on the wick I no the glow plug was ok and drew little power about 4-6 amps. 
Only complaint was the deck of the models were covered in black soot some thing shocking soap and water washed this off,do remember the smoke was very thick and hung on the water level a lot looked like a real warship making a smoke screen getting away from the enemy had a nice burned smell could have been the diesel. 
We tried all manner of smokers for our model boats harbor models worked out the best long term all the best caferacer


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

In this thread "lotsasteam" managed to get one working in a K-27, running the smoker on a 12 volt battery 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/14/aft/115377/afv/topic/Default.aspx


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The only problem is they are a bit large for most applications. I had seen a previous post on this unit and I do not think it was feasable for a install for a G loco. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Cough. Cough. Wheeze. Snort.

Yes, I believe that works quite well.

Cough. Cough


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

I saw an Aristo Mallet where they put the Mobil Marine smoke unit in the vandy tender and used a high temp silicone tube from tender to smoke box by going under the cab floor between the tender and engine. Made it look like the coal feeder tube. He had spliced the tube between the engine and tender also so the two could still be separated if needed. Jake


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Sorry, I ment Harbor Marine. Jake


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

My DJB ruby smokes something fierce when I add some bituminous coal to it, the most smoke I have ever seen from a gscaler would probably be yves at diamondhead with his bigger coal burners (i get the same amount from time to time hehe)

Yves:


Video of my DJB ruby with the bituminous coal in it:


Of course this is all live steam coal fired  (the aroma is great lol) - Sometimes I over do it and the kids in line for the 7.5" gauge trains start to cough.. doh (wind to blame... ya that's my story


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

My USA Trains Hudson does pretty good that I've converted to MTH smoke though it does even better these days.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chuck, can you still buy MTH smoke units? Do you have a contact/address/store to purchase them from? 

Thanks, Greg


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## Johnn (Jan 5, 2010)

Chuck, You complete me your my hero. Thats the best smoke i ever seen







. PERIOD.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, Yeah it's getting kind of tough to buy those smoke units from MTH lately..they may be out of stock.


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