# Best glues & cleaning process for buildings falling apart?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

My outside buildings are showing their age (some up to 25 years old) and some are falling apart.

They include Pola, Piko (both European and inexpensive US), Aristo-Craft and Model Power.

*This photo was taken on April 3,, 2002:*










*This photo was taken on January 26, 2011 after high winds left everything as shown:*








Over the years I have tried different brands of glue with none standing out as better than all others. The fault may be mine for improper cleaning/preparation.

Since I clean my outside layouts with leaf blowers, some parts have been blown off the layouts into the leaves and lost or accidentally burned with the leaves.

Many buildings are now in disrepair and recently (due to lessened mobility) I have resorted to giving or throwing some away.

I would like to hear from others who have years of experience with outdoor buildings that includes buildings falling apart and successfully being cleaned and re-glued with the repaired buildings now having held up at least 3 years.

The same brands of buildings are still holding up very well on the indoor layouts so it is only the outside building that I need help with.

Also, what do you do about missing (lost) doors, windows etc.?

Thanks for sharing your experiences,

Jerry


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

what about the 3 page thread already active on this topic? : http://forums.mylargescale.com/14-buildings/62010-what-type-glue-use.html


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry the people in our train club use p6000 you can get it a craft stores and wal- matr here in ohio handle it. Pete


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

pete said:


> Jerry the people in our train club use p6000 you can get it a craft stores and wal-mart here in ohio handle it. Pete


Thanks Pete,

I will look into it.

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> what about the 3 page thread already active on this topic? : http://forums.mylargescale.com/14-buildings/62010-what-type-glue-use.html


How about just staying away from my topics just as we have both been told to avoid each other on MLS?

That topic did not address my specific questions about gluing specific brands of buildings and the long term results.

Please have the courtesy of not offering your unwelcome and uninvited comments on my topics.

You were the primary reason I left MLS before.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*By comparison, I took these photos this morning:*



























http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Buildings/Caboose0192.jpg

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Buildings/Caboose0194.jpg

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Buildings/Caboose0195.jpg

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Buildings/Caboose0196.jpg

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Buildings/Caboose0198.jpg

I have not run these layouts for a couple of years so they clearly need a lot of work on the buildings.

On the other hand, everything works very nicely and it took a minimum of effort with some help from a new friend getting rid of 2 years accumulated leaves.

Jerry


----------



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I've put used/damaged Pola and Pko buildings--bought off eBay--together with solvent cement (MEK) and had good luck so far. Of course, they've only been back outside for a year, so I can't offer any insight into how long it would last.
Here was my process:

First, I cleaned them thoroughly with soap and water.
Then I gently wire brushed the corners and other places I'd be gluing. It helps if you have a toothbrush-sized or smaller brush. You need to be sure to get any old adhesive off
I applied MEK to the joints, before putting the pieces together and I gave the MEK a few minutes to work (I usually applied more as it dried) and then clamped the parts together. 
After I clamped the parts, I re-applied MEK at the joints, from the inside.
Once the MEK evaporated and the plastic was well joined, I took off the clamps
Finally, I applied a bead of E6000 to the inside corners of the walls and to the roof to wall joints.
As I said, they've only been outside for a year but so far they're standing up well.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

riderdan said:


> I've put used/damaged Pola and Pko buildings--bought off eBay--together with solvent cement (MEK) and had good luck so far. Of course, they've only been back outside for a year, so I can't offer any insight into how long it would last.
> Here was my process:
> 
> First, I cleaned them thoroughly with soap and water.
> ...


Hi Dan,

That is the sort of experienced information I am looking for. 

I have tried to glue many hobby related things over the years (even importing glues from model manufacturers) but I've had more failures than successes. 

My high school chemistry teacher told me I had no aptitude for chemistry (he was right).

Even the manufacturers have noticeably had a lot of problems as I have had multiple brands (new - old stock and even brand new products) arrive with parts falling out due to glue failure.

I don't know of any manufacturer that volunteers the exact plastic they use in particular products and often the manufacturer's glue has failed in the past. Re-glueing kits that had been glued when first purchased often have failed a lot sooner than the original glue.

I found with RC aircraft that Super Glue can cause more problems than it solves.

Its a tough subject. I have a lot of experience with a lot of brands and products but still there are a lot of photos of buildings that have fallen apart.

Its not always the glue. Sometimes it has been dogs, cats, raccoons and other critters (extreme winds and cleaning with a leaf blower doesn't help).

Thank you for your input.

Jerry

I just found this:

http://dfarq.homeip.net/2011/01/glue-for-plastic-models-and-buildings/


----------



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Jerry McColgan said:


> ...I don't know of any manufacturer that volunteers the exact plastic they use in particular products and often the manufacturers glue has failed in the past...
> Jerry


Jerry, I've noticed that too and find it frustrating. It's one of the reasons I resort to solvent cement, because the mechanical bond on E6000 etc seems to be partly based on what it's used on. Since a lot of plastics have a non-porous surface, I don't usually bother, I just go straight to melting the plastic with solvent.

But even solvent cement joints can give up eventually. It's just one of the "cons" of leaving buildings outside.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

riderdan said:


> Jerry, I've noticed that too and find it frustrating. It's one of the reasons I resort to solvent cement, because the mechanical bond on E6000 etc seems to be partly based on what it's used on. Since a lot of plastics have a non-porous surface, I don't usually bother, I just go straight to melting the plastic with solvent.
> 
> But even solvent cement joints can give up eventually. It's just one of the "cons" of leaving buildings outside.


Hi Dan,

I agree. Over the years I have tried Goo, Gorilla glue and many others that have been suggested (with varying levels of success). 

I found 11 3M/Scotch consumer adhesives so I will try them. None are MEK so I will get the E6000 at Walmart and try it too.

If I can get something to last 5 years that will probably be good enough for me as I doubt I'll be running the trains outdoors longer than that.

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

pete said:


> Jerry the people in our train club use p6000 you can get it a craft stores and wal- matr here in ohio handle it. Pete


Hi Pete,

I did not find p6000. Did you mean E6000?

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Jerry McColgan said:


> Hi Dan,
> 
> I agree. Over the years I have tried Goo, Gorilla glue and many others that have been suggested (with varying levels of success).
> 
> ...


Sorry for the confusion... the E6000 is a mechanical glue--I just use it as a "backup" to the MEK-based glues. 

As far as solvent cement/MEK, you can buy the Plastruct solvent cement for like $12 for a 5oz bottle, or get a whole quart of MEK from Lowes or Home Depot for $20.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I glad that one of us appears to know what he is talking about. Too bad it's not me. 

I ask a lot of questions because I know so very little about so much. 

Jerry


----------



## The Tinker (Sep 11, 2014)

I am trying Urethane glue used to hold windscreens in modern cars. Seems to hold up well is a little flexible, allows for hot and cold, water proof and very strong. It is paintable. Tried to pull apart a couple of old parts as a trial glue held one of parts broke.


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry sorry I should have typed e6000. I see you have a REAL caboose awesome. Pete


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

i use liquid nails adhesive with 1/2 x 1/2 wood bracing in all corners to rehab buildings. I find the small surface area of the plastic butt corner joint just not enough for solvent glue to last. 

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I now have (in various quantities and ages):

E6000
UHU green it
UHU plast
UHU Kraft (Alleskleber)
Pritt (Alleskleber)

3M/Scotch should bee here soon.

I used a Super Glue on an Aristo-Craft Mikado's Long Steel Tender (ART-21800-52) Side Frame yesterday.


----------



## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Jerry. I use E6000 some, but I have had good luck with Goop adhesive. When I have buildings like you show, I usually put a fillet of Goop on the inside of the corners, and so far it has worked pretty well for me.

Ed


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

hello my friend, its nice to see you post.
I ALMOST fit the bill of requirements, but, I take my buildings inside at some point prior to winter, so, my experience is ...close to what you need.

I have become a believer in a fabric adhesive called Quick Grip. for reference I think its some what close to UHU green. It is clear, viscous, and does not melt the plastic as a weld. On clean surfaces it has a tenacious grip, but remains slightly flexible, which I think is great as heat and cold transitions do not break the joint.

it is superb on spindly "protrusions" that have small gluing footprints and which inevitably take a knock. Because the stuff gives, the protrusions don't break off. Like the tiny lightining rods on top of buildings, free floating decks and stairways, chimneys, etc.

It allows maybe a minute or so to align. It is best describes as a contact cement, the kind you smeer on both surfaces , touch together to spread, the glue then evaporates a bit of its solvents and becomes less fluid, and you press surfaces together, align, and it stays. However, with care and mindfulness, and a strong grip and hopefully robust materials, you can pull things apart if needed, if not easily. It can also be peeled off, using jewelrs pliers should it seep into an unwanted area.

I too clean things with Palmolive dish soap, a toothbrush, and scrape or rough up, as needed, down to the plastic. A clean surface is critical to re-gluing old seams. Often, and sadly, it really boils down to dis-assembly, cleaning , and reassembly and re-painting those sun bleached areas. Re-painting is important, in many cases. Its protection and makes things look fresh again. Again a thorough cleaning and rinse and possible fine grit buff up, and, either mineral or water based paint for out door use. I tend to prefer mineral/oil simply because it seem to adhere best and not glop up or obscure finer details, and it doesn't have the tendency to peel off the plastic that acrylics can have.


A lot of work, but, given the scarcity of POLA and pricing, its well worth it.

I find doing one at a time , helps me be mindful and not rush.

I buy Quick Grip on line directly from the maker, and usually a dozen tubes at a time, for best pricing. It seems to have a good long shelf life when unopened, like 2-3 years.

I last recall seeing it at Michaels in the adhesive section, in case you want to try just one tube and see if you like it. I would imagine other craft stores might carry it too, but, I can say the price was a few dollars higher than direct from the maker. Im ....cheap that way.

I think what sets it apart , for me, is despite its grip, it can be cleanly removed with patience and some needle nose pliers. No brown Goo forever residue.

mine, in particular a 2 stall eninge house, and steves auto repair, and schoenwiler station, all have held up after rebuild for about 8-9 years. As for missing doors etc, I either go Grandt line architectural parts, and fit, or, cut sheet styrene and laminate with QG, which doesn't distort the sheets with melting when sandwiched, and add brace/frame strips or scribe, adding a door handle, typically a pin with those large round plastic ends-or if im feeling lazy, just "board up" the door and move one from the back to the front and use a piece of wood, well polyurathaned-which only protects for a year or 2 at best, in my experience.


----------



## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Quick Grip can also be found at Walmart. I usually use MEK first. If that doesn't work on a particular plastic, I either use Quick Grip or epoxy from Harbor Freight. Hope this helps.


-Kevin.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

My thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions. This restoration is going to be a long term project. Some of the original factory glues held up for many years but some of my re-gluing lasted a very short time (especially with long sectioned walls).

I was surprised how well the Aristo farm buildings have held up. The colors faded but only recently has a window occasionally fallen out (easy to re-glue).

It was nice to hear from Ed and Steve (its been a long time - too long - but thats my fault as I seldom go anywhere anymore and I seldom visit the forums these days).

With Johathan now at Piko I will be checking with him and his previous experience with LGB/Pola should be informative and helpful.

I will slowly be trying different glues and see how they work out.

Additional comments about other's experiences with the different glues are always welcome.

Thanks again,

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Ed,

I've used Goo but don't recall if I have used Goop. I have to confess to assembling buildings with a minimum of effort and I bought some buildings used - with no knowledge of how they had been built by their original owners/builders.

Thanks for your input,

Jerry



eheading said:


> Hi Jerry. I use E6000 some, but I have had good luck with Goop adhesive. When I have buildings like you show, I usually put a fillet of Goop on the inside of the corners, and so far it has worked pretty well for me.
> 
> Ed


----------



## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, I noticed one building you had fall apart was a Pola Sawmill. I had one of the factory-assembled ones with the operating gang saw; I keep it covered with a large tote when I'm not running the railroad. A rock positioned atop the tote keeps it in place - at least *MOST* of the time. A few years back, we had a snowstorm hit with some strong northerly winds (up to @ 60 MPH). When I got home that evening after battling traffic through the snowstorm, I found that the high winds had not only blown the tote off the sawmill, but took the walls & roof  along with it. The gang saw mechanism was buried under an inch or so of snow.  After bringing it inside,I first cleaned up the base; the gang saw mechanism initially did not want to operate, but after a thorough cleaning & lube with plastic-compatible lubes (the same stuff I use on my Bachmann locos), I managed to revive it. 

The walls stayed intact as one unit, & the roof was OK; but I had previously noted that the walls didn't seem especially securely attached to the base.  I drilled out the pegs that fastened the walls together, & used some 1/4-20 threaded rods to securely *bolt* the walls down to the base. While I had the building on the bench, I also used a set of white Christmas LED lights to light the structure, but built a small voltage regulator circuit under the base to replace the battery box for the LED lights. I'll try to take a few pictures if I get a chance. Also, now when I see the forecast is mentioning high winds, I *strap the tote down* to the small "deck" I built to support with a heavy-duty bungee cord.

What I *am* getting concerned about, though, on a lot of my Pola buildings is *sun fading* the plastic coloring.  Anyone have any suggestions for suitable *UV-resistant paint?*

Tom


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Tom Lapointe said:


> A rock positioned atop the tote keeps it in place - at least *MOST* of the time.
> 
> Tom


Hi Tom,

I'm not sure what a tote is. I assume you mean the roof?

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a simple plastic storage tote, Jerry; think most of the one's I have currently came from Wal-Mart. Got the idea from a building "garage" article in Garden Railways years ago. The UV gets to them as well, & eventually they crack & have to be replaced, but at prices of the order of *$4 ~ $8,* it's a relatively inexpensive way of protecting my nicer buildings.  Tom


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Tom Lapointe said:


> Just a simple plastic storage tote, Jerry; think most of the one's I have currently came from Wal-Mart. Got the idea from a building "garage" article in Garden Railways years ago. The UV gets to them as well, & eventually they crack & have to be replaced, but at prices of the order of *$4 ~ $8,* it's a relatively inexpensive way of protecting my nicer buildings.  Tom


Hi Tom,

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> I now have (in various quantities and ages):
> 
> E6000
> UHU green it
> ...


As an update, I now have (but have not yet tried) these 3M/Scotch adhesives:

Scotch Clear Glue
Scotch Advanced Formula Super Glue Liquid
Scotch Advanced Formula Super Glue NO RUN GEL
Scotch Maximum Strength Adhesive CLEAR GEL
Scotch General Purpose Super Glue LIQUID
Scotch PEN Super Glue
3M quick set epoxy General use
3M wet surface adhesive OUTDOOR
3M instant set epoxy General Use
3M super strength adhesive General use
3M 847 adhesive

As a 3M Retiree I try to buy 3M products but I have little experience with 3M AC&S (Adhesives, Coatings, & Sealants) products beyond knowing I had some distributors who also represented 3M AC&S and I had a lot of respect for the 3M AC&S reps I used to know before I retired.

It is amazing what I had learned about some of the 3M adhesives used on the Space Shuttles and by Boeing.

I guess if they are good enough for NASA & Boeing they should be good enough for me (if I use them correctly).

If I knew more about the plastics used in my buildings I could probably get excellent advice from 3M Tech Support but with the little knowledge I have I would be wasting their valuable time.

If anyone has any specific experiences with any of the 3M/Scotch adhesives I mentioned, please feel free to respond here or by PM.

Our son uses a lot of 3M products with his auto body shop.

http://www.scotchbrand.com/3M/en_US...srch=1&WT.mc_id=SCTCH-ADHV_Exact_3M_adhesives

Still looking.

Jerry


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

tom, I have used little latex samples available at any store that sells paint. 
the last one I used on my Susch station to make the plastic color a little less plastic looking. 

it holds up about as well as it does on the house, ie 4-6 years. these sample bottles have more than enough to paint a large building. plus, as they are premixed, you can see the various colors. I did not have any issue with brush marks either. they have a shelf life of maybe one year, then they become too viscous. they run about 3-4 bucks a bottle. best part too, is that you can use them and mix in a touch of artist acrylics to get a slight variation -ie a touch of umber, ochre etc, to change brick or roof tones so they aren't all uniform. I have also used straight artist tube acrylics , unthinned, for some applications, or barely thinned with a touch of detergent so it flows and doesn't sit atop the plastic in a droplet. the tube acrylics have a very very long shelf life-going on ten years + and still like new . these might be a consideration as well for you. most basic earth tones are pretty reasonable even large tubes. I use Golden brand.

or, you can buy oil based model paints, which, simply, adhere and flow really nicely. pricey though for large use.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

stevedenver said:


> I have become a believer in a fabric adhesive called Quick Grip. for reference I think its some what close to UHU green. It is clear, viscous, and does not melt the plastic as a weld. On clean surfaces it has a tenacious grip, but remains slightly flexible, which I think is great as heat and cold transitions do not break the joint.
> 
> it is superb on spindly "protrusions" that have small gluing footprints and which inevitably take a knock. Because the stuff gives, the protrusions don't break off. Like the tiny lightining rods on top of buildings, free floating decks and stairways, chimneys, etc.
> 
> ...


I think I now need to find some Quick Grip and Palmolive.

I will probably try several different adhesives according to the level of damage (almost any glue should reattach an Aristo fallen out window).

I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions.

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I ordered a couple tubes of Quick Grip from Ace Hardware (Mayflower AR - in case I forget).

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=83923656&KPID=23251406&pla=pla_23251406


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Reply I got from 3M:

Thank you for contacting 3M, where we Apply Science to Life, Construction & Home Improvement Markets Division.

Plastics can be a very difficult surface to bond. 

We suggest testing the following:

3M(TM) Plastic Adhesive - CAT # 18030 (glue)
3M(TM) Plastic Adhesive for Outdoor Surfaces - CAT # 18032 (epoxy)
3M(TM) Adhesives are typically available through Ace, True Value, Do it Best, Shopko, Jo-Ann, AC Moore, Hy-Vee, Publix, Hobby Lobby, Dakota Drug, SuperValu and others.

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*Reattaching weight to 21181 Mogul Tender?*

*

Today's Update:

It turned out that the 3M hot glue worked well and I was able to reattach the lead weight.*

*old update:

I'm in a hurry to get this fixed so I am going to use a bit of 3M hot melt adhesive that is left over from previous projects. It worked well in the past so hopefully it will work well now (its probably 15 years old).
*


I recently bought LGB 21181 & 2018D Moguls. I just found out that one of the plastic mounts for the weight in the 21181 tender is broken off. The other mount is OK & can retain the weight.

The main problem will be for the glue I use to hold up under the twisting strain when I try to insert the screw back into it.

I have always found LGB plastic difficult to glue and hold under pressure.

Because the weight will be over a speaker, it needs to be remove able?

Is there a specific glue that does well with LGB plastic (maximum strength)?

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*PIKO recommends 55701 PIKO-FIX, Plastic Cement, 30g*

Most of my buildings are PIKO or POLA brands followed by Aristo-Craft and Model Power. The guy I would expect to know the most about PIKO, LGB and POLA would be Jonathan at PIKO America.

I phoned Jonathan and he recommended 55701 PIKO-FIX, Plastic Cement, 30g for repairs on PIKO and POLA buildings. 








Retailer List:

http://www.piko-america.com/Retailer_Weblist_11-25-15.pdf

I had not heard about this product but I just ordered 4 bottles.

Jerry


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I have now obtained:

Beacon Quick Grip


3M 5/8" X 2" Industrial Hot Melt Adhesives for use with 3M Scotch-WeldTM Hot Melt Applicator TC
3M 3792 Scotch-Weld Hot Melt Adhesive "Clear Multi-Purpose"
3M 3764 Scotch-Weld Hot Melt Adhesive "Bonds variety of plastics"

PIKO Fix is on order.

One way or another I should be able to get started glueing the buildings back together.


----------



## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jerry,

Looking forward to hearing how the Piko Fix performs.

I have a few buildings that need repair also.

Tommy
Rio Gracie


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

tmejia said:


> Hi Jerry,
> 
> Looking forward to hearing how the Piko Fix performs.
> 
> ...


Hi Tommy,

UPS just left after dropping off 4 of the PIKO FIX. It will probably be next week before we get around to trying it.

Jerry
Plastic, Plywood & Carpet Railway


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Not much info about PIKO FIX.

I FOUND THIS:

55701 Glue For Piko Series Buildings.
Piko packs, with each kit, a small amount of glue. They are restricted on what blend of glue they can pack with kits. This "blend" is a better grade of glue, especially for outdoor use, then what is enclosed in the kits. 30 g 


http://www.onlytrains.com/model/trains/1055701.html


----------

