# QSI in USAT



## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Hi all, just wondering how long it will be before QSI comes out with the sound/decoder board for the USAT locomotives? Also wondering about updates to the sound files for G scale. It seems there has been some action for the O and HO (revolution updates and upgrades) costumers but not so much for G.

Steve


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Three weeks ago I called QSI tech support--I looked at the website and thought that the announcement that "all steam files cleared for release" included G scale.. The person I spoke to said that the upgraded G scale sounds should be released "next week," which would have been the week of July 20th. I've been checking steadily since then.


Emailing QSI generally results in a very terse and fairly vague reply. Calling them is generally a much more friendly and positive experience.


On the USAT adapter board, I emailed QSI to ask back in April and was told "three months."


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I, too, am waiting for the new QSI system. I've been saving up for the whole NCE/Gwire/QSI system, but they better hurry up before the money burns a hole in my pocket...


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

What USA Trains is doing is making a board that replaces the existing board in the USA Trains locos. The difference is that the USA Trains board will have the sockets in it for the plug n play decoders like some of the Aristocraft locos have. I believe all of the boards in the different USATrains locos are the same. As someone who has a CADD capability and have made my own boards for my own projects, if they don't come out with their own board soon I will come out with a replacement board as a kit and beat them to the punch. This isn't rocket science, it's r & d and mass production. USA Trains needs to produce hundreds to justify a production run. On the other hand I can produce 20 at a time depending on the number of orders received.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There is a socket intended on the new board, but it's for the brains of the decoder, and the replacement "mother board" is intended to have as little circuitry on it as possible. 

You need at least 2 different footprints for USAT, if not 3 or 4, depending on how you slice it. 

Actually, there is a problem with the USAT, their lighting has challenges, they have 2 different generations of voltage, and also some have headlights and number boards combined with a common and some do not. Also, several locos have bicolor leds. 

So while it's not rocket science, you would have to do some engineering to do it right and support all the different combinations of lights, voltages etc. I have had 4 of the prototypes, still have 3 of them, and it's as I say. 





























You might want to read this page:

_*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...9/usat-qsi*_

Regards, Greg


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

So let me see, What I see in the pictures are the replacement QSI board for the USA Traind locos with a decoder installed in it. And if I understand you correct it is a different decoder that the pnp decoder used in the Aristo and Bachmann locos?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, and I have 2 different versions of the above, AND the final one will be different from either of them. 

One has the output transistors on the "main board", and the other does not, and neither of the daughter boards are the same as the production (Aristo socket) version. 

Again, the goal is to put as little electronics on the main board, just all the plugs and switches needed to be a direct replacement. The daughter board is intended to be common among all versions. It will be a neat trick to make this architecture still fit in the very small space for the Aristo socket. 


Regards, Greg


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Hey Greg, I love getting the latest info on QSI from you, I get better info from you than I get from the manufacturers websites.









thanks again

Steve


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well in this case I am working with the distributor and the driving force for the feature content: QSI Solutions, and also directly with the manufacturer, a separate company, QSI Industries, or more correctly QS Industries, the owners are completely different. 

I'm helping test a number of things and have found some areas that need to be improved. I'm also especially interested in the USAT versions, I have about 20 locos waiting for them, so it's a win win situation, the more I help, the sooner they will get done hopefully. 

I am doing this on a completely volunteer basis, I receive no compensation, and the prototype units I have will have to be returned at some time in the future. 

Regards, Greg


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I want 1 decoder for every loco application and I've already bought 10 of the QSI Aristo decoders and put them in Aristo locos so I might as well order 10 more with Magnum adapters for my USA Trains locos and start ripping out the wires in those locos. Wasted a year waiting to set up these locos. I hope USA Trains gets with the program and puts boards with plugs in them so we can use the standard plug configuration. I'm not buying any more USA Trains locos until they do. I was going to buy some more BNSF Swoosh SD70MACs but I think I will have Shawmut Car Shops custom paint some Dash 9's instead. Eventually G scale will be like HO with everything standardized and you can buy whatever decoder you want and just drop it in the loco and go.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

It has to get standardized. It can only help the hobby.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I emailed QSI to ask about the upgraded sound files and got "All being completed and posting by next week"

Didn't ask about the USAT board


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

We just got to bug Greg more to get this testing done.







and get the info back to QSI. Of course on another note maybe there is some thing in the wind we do not know and maybbe USAT could be thinking of a PnP board for there locos. Hummmmmmmmm. Sure taking a long time for QSI to make the board for USAT loco's I have 7 locos yet to do and they are all USAT so I guess I keep on waiting. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My testing of the prototypes is done, but I have not seen any new hardware for a while. I have reported to QSI Solutions and QS Industries. 

Yep, I want them too... 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Hummmmmmmmmm could lite a fire under them.







. Then see if they can produce. Maybe more folks need to bug them. Later RJD


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg- 

Silly question, but is the QSI decoder going to be able to handle the current draw of a USA Trains diesel? 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, not a silly question. A long time ago, George Schreyer was able to get some tremendous "locked rotor" current measurements from a GP7/9. NCE corporation became concerned that people would blow up their smaller decoders, and made an 8 amp continuous, 30 amp stall decoder that is STILL the only one they will warrant on a USAT loco. 

I have about 20-30 USAT locos, and have never experienced this current, since I have never locked the rotors, I cannot get them to draw more than about 3 amps each under the heaviest of loads, although I have discarded the traction tires. 

I am not disputing George's findings, just saying that in terms of average current on the layout I have not hit these peak marks as average, and I believe this is where the concern that USAT locos are extremely high current ALL the time. 


The QSI has internal thermal monitoring, and current shutoff, and the output transistors on the current model are rated at 5 amps. I have 3 USAT locos with prototype QSI units in them, and have never had a problem, in fact my "track cleaning" loco is a GP7/9 that is run all the time, often 5 hours continuously, and due to the drag of the cleaning cars, will be in wheel slip about 30% of the time... if there were going to be any problems, it would have shown up by now. 

(I have stainless rail and have been fooling around with putting a compound on the trails that actually seems to clean the loco wheels, even rusted ones, but then it's real slippery, so I run a heavy track cleaning car with a pad soaked in simple green). 

Regards, Greg


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Greg-
It would interesting to see what happens with the traction tires. Allowing the wheels to slip reduces the maximum current draw.

Has QSI performed current draw measurements on the USA Trains motors? It seems they are putting a lot of work into the design of the plug and play interface, I simply hope they don't end up in a situation where the decoders get smoked because they are underpowered. 


The Magnum specs list the decoder ratings at 2.7A (steady state) and 3.0A (stall current - 3 seconds). 
http://www.qsisolutions.com/products/q-magnum.html

I have heard too many stories of people installing Brand X/Y/Z decoders in USA Trains locos, only to get good short term results. In the end, the decoder eventually gets smoked. In fact, the NCE D808SR decoders are the only ones which seem to last long term. As you point out, these are rated for 8A continuous and 30A stall.

How will the QSI Solutions decoder control the USA Trains power-hungry smoke units?

Sorry for the 'sticky' questions, but this is a challenging project for QSI Solutions and I am interested to see how it works.

Best regards,
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As I said Bob, I have THREE USAT locos with QSI in it... have not had a problem... I guess I could try overloading them and seeing what happens, although I might not become real popular doing this. 

QSI is very aware of the current requirements of USAT locos, and the time spent has not been agonizing over this specific item. It's more of coming up with an interface that can handle the many combinations of connectors and voltages present in USAT locos. 

I'm aware of the published specs, but you have to remember that these were published (and not changed since) when the unit came with a second power limiting device, a polyfuse... upon selling lots of these, it was determined the thermal monitoring by the cpu of the output transistor temps was sufficient, and all the polyfuse did was trip when not necessary (Just like Aristo equipment with the same polyfuse). 

The stupid polyfuse is now history, and that has elminated locos like the Aristo Mallet from tripping and stopping. I have had no problems since. 


Again, I have THREE locos with the prototype units in them, had a fourth, but that is in the hands of another tester, who has also had zero problems. 

I have a bunch of junk MRC AD322 decoders in 6 USAT F3's and 5 USAT PA's and other than defective units, they run fine... (they will blow up sometimes, but not from overloading)

I'm telling you that the USAT power consumption, while greater than Aristo, is not hundreds of amps, and it's not as "scary" as the 10 year old information can lead you to believe. Modern hardware is more sophisticated. 


The smoke units do not go through the decoder by the way, no one ever does this except to have a decoder output run a relay. 

Really the challenging part of the design electronically is done, it's packaging, and connectors and board layout. 

Remember I have had these units almost a year, if they have not blown up yet, with my 3.4% grade, they will be fine. 

You have to get the old data from 10 years ago out of your mind, that's when DCC decoders would be super noise sensitive, and reset all the time... (like the new TE on track power, ha ha, you got to buy a "capacitor board" larger than the decoder itself). 

Regards, Greg


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