# CIWL LX sleeping car kit for gauge 1



## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

The ships-modelkitmaker Amati from Italy made a kit for a CIWL 1 gauge LX type sleeping car as it ran in the Orient Express and the Train Bleu. I bought one that arrived today. It is a kit with many, many parts which will result (when correctly build) in a very detailed CIWL car with detailed interior.



















When completed I will post some pictures; by googling Amati Orient Express you wil find pictures of the Amati made model.

Regards
Fred


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like it will be a beautiful model.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Is that a wood kit? 

I just watched another similar car build... incredible detail possible.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

It is a kit with indeed lots of wood, but also many brass, other metal and plastic parts. There is a good review of the contents here: https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/18617-132-1929-orient-express-sleeping-car-no3533-lx-amati/
Regards
Fred


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

This will be fun to watch. Please post pictures as you build.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

I took a serious look at this kit, and I don't like to spoil peoples pleasure but there are a lot of things that are strange about it. So here is a bit of warning:

1) I have built three coaches from wood including an LX sleeper which was my very first Gauge one coach that I scratchbuilt. It was wood with styreen overlay for solving the problem of sealing the wood grain. I stopped building cars in wood as they have one weak point: The end to which the weight of the train is attached through the coupling (continental screw, chain and hook) takes all the weight of a heavy train through a very thin band of wood about 1cm x 6cm, this can pry off the end of the car (I am speaking from experience... And have since heavily reinforced this portion of said cars) 

2) The wheels for the trucks are made of aluminum ditto for the axles... Well I guess you can always buy four wheelsets to replace those but at that kind of price...?


3) The roof seems to have a completly wrong turn under at the ends, this is likely due to the construction technique used of rolled thin brass sheet, nevertheless this "highly detailed model" has a wrong roof profile! By the way the prototype used an aluminum casting for that part of the roof. *This is most important.*


4) I am very curious as to what sort of sheeting is used for the sides? I just hope for the potential buyer that it is not printed paper like the inside.


5) The diaphragms seem to be an aluminum or white metal casting. making them useles from an operating standpoint.



There are other less obvious issues like the thickness of the different componments of the interior which seem way oversize. Plus what seems to be an overly complex building sequence: Building and completing this car seems to be an act of patience...
Two other odd factors for me are the relatively high price for the kit, which doesn't really offer an alternative to finding a J & M one on the second hand market. And the fact that it is designed as a shelve queen that is a static model.
Mind you I am personally in the market for one or two Lx sleepers myself, to make up the Paris Nord- Calais cars of the blue train (which often carried three); but this just didn't seem to me to be a viable alternative, alas. Just a word of warning.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry it turned out to be a disappointment.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

placitassteam said:


> Sorry it turned out to be a disappointment.


Thank you, but it did not turn out a disappointment at all. I do not agree at all with everything "du-bousquetaire" (no first-name but nickname: grumpy) mentions and I will see for myself when I build the kit. When finished I will post pictures and share my experience.

Regards
Fred


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Dont confuse being grumpy with trying to inform people not familiar with this equipment in the USA about some of the pitfals of this kit. Which at that price are just not acceptable; the manufacturer should do his homework at those kinds of prices.
I was raised to scale model railroading in the USA in the sixties, and feel that some of the conquest modelers made in those years should be upheld. 

It has nothing to do with grumpiness. I am not a rivet counter, But I feel a roof's shape is an important part of the proportions of the whole. If that isn't right than it should be corrected, especially at those kinds of prices.
Perhaps my post will encourage the manufacturer to correct this fault in which case it will be a positive contribution.
Enough said, Simon


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

To show the roof shape problem here a picture of a J&M LX and the plan (I have not yet finished the roof, but it should look according to plan when finished ) of the Amati model:




















Regards
Fred


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

The roof end is a curved shape whereas on the Amati it is a straight line. However this can be made the correct shape by just forming a wood part for that last section. There is a step on this portion at least on pre WW2 units, which tends to hide this but you can see the curve very neatly. We in Europe knew these cars when they were still running and remember the curve because at that time that step had been removed as well as the end ladders.
Of course this kit could also be used to make a finely detailed interior for a J&M car (although the thickness of the doors for instance is too great). But that would put that car at a formidable price wouldn't it...
But don't get me wrong I certainly didn't want to ruin yours or anybodies pleasure in buying this kit. I just feel that for me who is familiar with these for having seen them a good deal, I felt it would be my duty to warn people from oversea about these discrepancies. It probably can be made into an operating unit.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Here are some pictures I just made of that LX I built back in 1987 it is made of aviation plywood and styreen overlay (to have a smooth steel like finish). It is a bit beaten by time and storage on my old railroad terminal shed. It is giving me the idea that I should fit in a complete restoration sometimes soon. The interior is plywood (of apropriate thickness) and some photo overlays of WL interiors however these inlaid wood decoration are from a car from a diferent series than the Lx and is therefore not correct (At the time there was so little around in gauge one I was satisfied with it).


It has a few passengers about to tuck in including if I remmeber Marie Antoinette, a gentelman, a ballerina on her toes and tutu, the Pope in robe and the maréchal Foch. (the historic caracters were plastic collections sold in France with coffe jars in the sixties that I painted. Mokarex I think was the firm's name) 



The trucks which are brass sprung and posses swing action bolsters came with modifications from a Stewart Hines kit for "American" GW bogies. The nearest thing then available to make WL bogies. The journal boxes have correct WL lids, as well as the lettering and insigna etched by a printer friend of mine. At the time I was interested in the PLM and it was for my Rome Express, hence the Pope's presence...


The roof is made from samba wood (or Poplar) you make a rectangle the right width heigt and length, then you plane it to the correct roof contour. Afterwhich you file the end shape (I now use a belt sander on stand to do this much quicker and very good results) then you seal it and putty up any defects, add evergreen ribs (today I would use brass as the evergreen expands to quikly in the sun),and spray grey!
I used a jig saw to cut out the windows interior partitions and doors.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Thank you for posting these pictures; you selfmade LX looks very good.
Regards
Fred


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Thank you Fred; it is about 32 years old and shows that quite a bit. It certainly needs a restoration effort one of these days.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

After finishing the interior of my Amati kit of the CIWL LX sleeping car I realised that when adding the
carriage sides the interior, even if the roof is removable, will not be easily seen: so here are some 
views of the interior on compartment and corridor side.




Regards
Fred


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Fred,
That interior looks spectacular.
You have done a magnificent job.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Magnificent!


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful job! Thanks for posting the unobstructed interior shots. I like to do interiors and love seeing what other people do with theirs. Always something new to learn. Congratulations on a splendid creation.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

I restarted working on the Amati sleeping car. I finished the corridor wall and installed this:




















The conductor is closing the window:











View on the conductor desk in the corridor:











View through a compartment door on the corridor; the windows could be cleaner:










Regards
Fred


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

I also added the compartment side wall:














































More pictures on my website here: http://sncf231e.nl/amati-kit-for-a-ciwl-lx-sleeping-car/

Regards
Fred


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## choochoowilly (Oct 31, 2016)

That will be a silly cool build, post lots of pictures


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

All the hardware and upholstery is amazing. That is one of the best interiors I have ever seen!


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Beautiful job Fred! I have a question about this kit in the photos of the Amatti kit that I saw, it looks like the outside wrapper for the car sides is paper printed blue and with the lining. Is that so or is my interpretation wrong? Paper sides wouldn't last long outdoors. besides the other problems with the kit such as wheels, couplings, cast diaphragms to make an operating model out of it.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Thank you!

The outside walls are not paper; they are made of two layers of (thin) wood with in between nickel silver material for the window frames and the (plastic) window material. The outside are etched brass plates (0.4 mm) which are glued to the wood (not 1 piece but some 12 pieces for each wall, all to be glued correctly). Of course this had to be painted. The stripes are some kind of tape and the lettering is decals. I painted the walls gloss and then put the stripes and lettering on it and then sprayed a layer of satin paint for protection.










In the kit are full size printed paper outside walls; these are only to be used as a guide how to paint/stripe and letter the walls and not for using on the car.

Today I added the end-walls:



















Regards
Fred


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

A bit further with the kit; all doors, handles and steps are fitted:



















More Pictures here: http://sncf231e.nl/amati-kit-for-a-ciwl-lx-sleeping-car/

Regards
Fred


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Thanks Fred for the info, what had led me astray was those sheets of printed sides in colour part of the instructions, good they did do a brass sheeting.
By the way I did an article on making paper bellows for Steam in the Garden magazine for my PRR cars then under construction. For European cars its a bit more tricky as you need much more folds about ten was right for European standards. but it can be done as I have done it. It will be useful if you plan to run it.
I would also do new rounded roof ends as per J&M in Samba wood.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

After about a year the Amati kit of the gauge 1 CIWL sleeping car is completed below the roof. Here is a video of the result:





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Some pictures (more pictures on my website: http://sncf231e.nl/amati-kit-for-a-ciwl-lx-sleeping-car/




























Regards
Fred


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

And now the roof is also finished. I did not use the roof ends from the kit but made some better proportioned (I hope) roof ends:





































The inner ceilings still have to be done and some better springs for the bogies are ordered. 

Regards
Fred


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Great kit build Fred, there must be heaps of hours spent on this, but the time invested is well worth the effort. The 'new' roof ends are an improvement over the supplied ones ( Simon what do you think?) 
Can you do a video of this coach running with some J&M CIWL coaches for comparison doing run-bys and also stationary close up comparisons. Do you think the coach will survive well for regular running in the garden where the odd derailment and brushing up against foliage can damage detail parts?
Fantastic job looks fabulous.
regards
Russell


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Thank you Russel,

Of course a video of the running model (when completely finished; I am still waiting for new springs for the trucks/bogies and have to add ceiling detail to the interior) will be made.

The model however cannot be used at all as you would use J&M cars. It is much to fragile. I do not think it can be packed to travel to a GTG or meet. I will use it at least one time (I hope) to run a "Train Bleu" but it is clearly supposed to be a static model. I follow two other builders on youtube of these models and they both make a static model, one even glued the brake block to the wheels!

Regards
Fred


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Hi Fred great job with the new roof ends, I figure with all the time you spent building it you might as well spend a few hours making correct ends for the Lx. Would you beleive it the real ones were made from aluminum castings! Ammatti should correct this and as they use castings they could make one for it. (also make real wheels, operating buffers and a bellows type or rubber cast diaphragms.) In which case it would be a going proposition. Best to all.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

ferroequinologist said:


> also stationary close up comparisons.
> regards
> Russell


The Amati sleeping car next to a J&M dining car:





































Regards
Fred


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Thanks Fred, the coach looks fantastic the only immediate difference I spot is "smaller" ( or is that more in scale?) vestibules at each end and the bogies. But it does look good to run it with the J&M coaches. A longer train of these with some J&M's would be fantastic.
I'm afraid if got one I would not only run out of patience spending all those hours building it but most likely damage it wanting to run it outside all the time, not to mention the inadequacy of the internal details on my J&M's would be highlighted in comparison! 
Good job well done especially the new roof ends and thanks for sharing the build, well worth following.
Russell


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

The Amati CIWL LX sleeping car now running in Le Train Bleu in the garden.

LX sleeping car build from a kit at the end of the train. The locomotive is an ASTER live steam SNCF 141R (with a wrong head board of Le Mistral); the further carriages are J&M Models LX sleeping car, Restaurant car, Train Bleu Salon-bar and Fourgon.






Regards
Fred


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Thanks for the video Fred, great looking train and the coach does look fantastic in the train. It's a nice day here and you have inspired me to get out my CIWL J&M's and the the 141R for a run as they haven't been run for a while.
Russell


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

ferroequinologist said:


> Thanks Fred, the coach looks fantastic the only immediate difference I spot is "smaller" ( or is that more in scale?) vestibules at each end and the bogies.
> Russell


Hello Russel,
The vestibules of the Amati LX car are 24 mm; those of the J&M Models LX car are 27 mm. A scale drawing I have shows that the real vestibule is 950 mm (which is 29.6 mm in 1:32), so both are too small! The overall length of the car-body (22200 mm) is correctly scaled down at 693 mm
Regards
Fred


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

*CIWL LX sleeping car kit for gauge 1: The building of the kit is finished*

After fifteen months of construction, I have finished building the Amati CIWL sleeper kit. It already ran last weekend but now the final details such as the ceiling of the interior are also ready. See the photos and the video.









































More photos can be seen on my website:
http://sncf231e.nl/amati-kit-for-a-ciwl-lx-sleeping-car/


With the end of the construction it is time for a conclusion:

It is a very nice kit. Amati makes quality; all parts fit well and look good. Most model builders with some patience can assemble this kit. The description and drawings are also in order. And building was a long-term but enjoyable activity.

Is there nothing to criticize: Yes there is something. If you are looking for a gauge 1 carriage to run on your track or a club layout then I would not recommend this kit. If you build it according to the description, it will not be able to run on a track. Furthermore, the built model, even if you make changes to make it run, is rather fragile and certainly not suitable to take to a club .

Regards

Fred


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Now that I finished building a CIWL LX sleeping car from a kit I noticed that Accucraft is going to issue the same type of car based on the former J&M models range. They are using the J&M brand for these. More information on their website: https://www.accucraftestore.com/euro-ciwl-sleeper-car.


Regards
Fred


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## se38005 (Oct 18, 2010)

Wow, what a model ! I had completely missed this thread, thank you Fred for showing the build. This is really a fantastic model. 

Regards Kjell


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Today I had a run in the garden with a CIWL "Train Bleu" with the Amati sleeping car at the end of the train. Le Train Bleu is pulled by the ASTER SNCF 232 U1 4 cylinder compound locomotive. The other cars are J&M. I do not know whether the U1 ever pulled Le Train Bleu but it looks good anyway, I think.






Regards
Fred


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

A beautiful engine pulling a beautiful train what more could one ask for. Thanks for sharing Fred.
Russell


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful train, it all goes together very nicely with your sleeping car. Is your locomotive an actual 4 cylinder compound locomotive?


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Yes, The ASTER SNCF 232 U1 is a real 4 cylinder compound locomotive. Some consider it the best ASTER locomotive. Mine is an excellent runner, it could easily pull a longer train on a longer track. My track is only 30 meter so I normally stick to 4 of 5 coaches.










Regards
Fred


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks. Very impressive!


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Yesterday I brought the AMATI CIWL LX sleeper back on the track together with some J&M Models sleeping cars:




Regards
Fred


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

Today I had a run with the Amati sleeping car and some J&M Models cars with the now 45 year old ASTER PLM pacific:






Regards
Fred


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## ferroequinologist (May 8, 2016)

Thanks Fred, a beautiful train and good to see that delicate Amati coach out for run. The Aster PLM Pacific's have a great exhaust sound, so maybe next time back off the music a bit more so we can hear it a little better. A good video as usual anyway and I did also like your recent video's on all the metal CIWL cars with good information on the differences. 
Russell


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