# Bachmann 4-6-0, Standard to Annie Conversion



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Our friend Dirk alerted me yesterday to something I'd not considered: upgrade a "standard" BM 4-6-0 by replacing its chassis with an "annie" chassis, which happens to be on sale this month for $55. I have two "standard" Big Hauler locos, and was planning on eventually getting rid of them in favor of Annies, but don't have the wampum yet. So Dirk shared this idea, and I think it's a neat one.

The chassis selection can be found here:
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=66_69_623

Of course, other parts would have to be upgraded / bashed / modeled to achieve my ultimate goal of emulating the V&T's #25, 25 and 27. This is a long term goal, and I'm not going to model any of this in the near future. For loco info and pics, go to http://www.virginiaandtruckee.com and go to Locomotives, and select these numbers. 

However, if the deal is indeed short-term, I'd like to buy a couple of the annie chassis while I can. So here's some questions.

Is there a thread on this sort of conversion? Will the annie chassis' motor allow chopping of the backhead, to make it not hog up the whole cab?

Also, the V&T's loco's had very simplistic valve gear, so I'd lean to one of the two simplistic chassis. But, BM's simple valve gear are almost too simple, like, I can't see any actual valve gear, only crossheads, guides and etc.; and no rod out of the valve box. Here's the two simple chassis:

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_69_623&products_id=4082

http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_69_623&products_id=4083

Any thoughts for valve gear here? Also, is this a rare "special," or does BM keep this price going?

Thanks for pointers, and thanks again Dirk Buddy.

===>Cliffy


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally I would go with the second one As for valve gear, if you want to simulate Stevenson gear that would be quite simple. Install the valve rod and run it back to a lever on the end of a rod running under the boiler.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I picked up a chassis a couple of months ago, not as an upgrade, but as a starting point for an Eventual Build...
My pike doesn't need long haul capabilities, we want heavy haulers from mine to yards to smelter.

The Rio Grande had their Mudhens, I offer the Mudsons....
I like the older boiler style of the Ga. 2-6-4

John


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Cliffy, the main issue with a shortened backhead on the 4-6-0 Annie chassis is that the lower part of the firebox is a part of the chassis but it could be chopped shorter anyway but then the firebox is directly above the rear driver... Back to the history of locomotive designs.

You could get the Walschaert valve gear and simplify it to a Stephenson type if need be. The only difference is the Walschaert has the union link pivot point on the lower part of the crosshead and the Stephenson does not but it can be filed off anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walschaerts_valve_gear

These are the old plastic gear versions of the chassis but a proven runner so perhaps Bachmann are clearing out this older version of spare parts stock. They won't be available forever. From memory the newer chassis with metal gears are twice the price or more.

Some plastic needs to be removed with a dremel to get to a basic chassis by removing the lower part of the curved boiler on the chassis which then also needs to be beefed up to keep some strength in it. There are two different versions which differ in this lower boiler area.

With some mods they can even be converted to 2-6-0 but the crosshead slidebar mounts get in the way of the front driver/rods and need to either be completely removed or a more slender one made. It can be done. The mounts are press fit onto the slidebars which leaves a blind hole to attach a slimmer mount.

Andrew


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

There are several threads on these conversions. BM periodically offers them at sale prices. Try a Google search.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for all the great tips guys.

Since the V&T had only Stevenson valve gear (a late breaking aha), I can't take advantage of the Walschaert fun-ness. I'll still get at least one chassis, probably the Stevenson and add some detail (per Winn's comments). Seems less messy and heartbreaking than starting with Walschaert and ripping it all out. 

Just saw Greg's helpful page on the gearbox evolution, 
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/bachmann-motive-power/big-hauler

Haven't found a conversion thread or article, but did see this on general upgrading:
http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html

With the chassis upgrade comes, I'm hoping, "improved pilot truck attachment" (per Greg) and what looks to be better coupler lift rods and pilot beam hand rails. Is that so? And are there any other benefits in the chassis area?

I'll hold off on getting the full annie, though I see that it has better piping details on the boiler. Per Jerry, Trainworld has them for $220. So, $165 more than the chassis (assuming one has a servicable BH laying around, which I do). Are there things that the annie (beyond its chassis) has over the BH, that makes it worth the extra $$? 

Thanks all for your help,
CJ


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Garratt said:


> Cliffy, the main issue with a shortened backhead on the 4-6-0 Annie chassis is that the lower part of the firebox is a part of the chassis but it could be chopped shorter anyway but then the firebox is directly above the rear driver... Back to the history of locomotive designs.
> 
> Some plastic needs to be removed with a dremel to get to a basic chassis by removing the lower part of the curved boiler on the chassis which then also needs to be beefed up to keep some strength in it. There are two different versions which differ in this lower boiler area.
> 
> ...


I get your point about the backhead and firebox, should have noticed it before (big facepalm here...) And your dremel point sounds workable, almost as it you've done it yourself. Correct? Last Q, is there a thread about converting to a mogul? I've looked, but haven't found one.

Thanks Andrew,
CJ


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Give me a few days Cliffy and I'll get some photos up. My conversion is half done like everything else so perfect time for pictures.I was actually modifying the chassis to put under the BuddyL 2-6-2 locomotive.

Andrew


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That'd be great, Andrew.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Saw this interesting thread on the topic, starring a number of MLS notables:

http://forums.mylargescale.com/24-p...-6-0-replacement-chassis-50-30-version-2.html


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for sending me back to B'mann, I saw a Heisler tender shell that should be a good trunk for the Mudson. Now to find an appropriate truck to support it.
On my chassis the motor is between the 2nd and 3rd driver so there is no reason why you can't chop the rear end. The fire box on mine is between the drivers which is apropos for our era. More modern boilers had raised fireboxes above and wider fires with more heating surface. The first of the 2 locos I posted, shows the modern solution.
Many railroads updated old equipment, it's possible your was rebuilt and the valve gear upgraded. If all the mines are built, then your road could be considered established and could have time/resources for the job.
Artistic License let's me go to the What if.
John


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Cliffy the BM Annie 4-6-0 chassis on special for $55 is the older type (version 5?) from a year or so back. 
It has plastic gears and the flimsy front pilot. An evolved good runner though. 
You can still get spare gear sets for a few bucks.

Andrew


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I agree John, Artistic License goes a long way in explaining everything I'm trying to do. 

Andrew, I didn't see the metal gears in BM's parts offerings, but thanks for the heads up.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Say... John.... will a HeavyWeight pass. car 2 axle truck fill the bill below the attached tender..
.. look much the same... based on your pix...n what I can see..

OK... station break over... just thinning out loud!!

@@ !!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

SD90WLMT said:


> Say... John.... will a HeavyWeight pass. car 2 axle truck fill the bill below the attached tender..
> .. look much the same... based on your pix...n what I can see..
> 
> OK... station break over... just thinning out loud!!
> ...


Oops now that you mention it, there was once such an offer!  Oh where has me memory gone? 
Like the rain? 2 days of Monsoons here! Light rain after great to walk in until another boom
Like the 2nd loco's trunk and truck.
Feeling a tad sheepish, your bud,
John


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Cliffy, the replacement gears available are plastic, the same as what comes in the version 5 discounted chassis with metal rods for $55.
If you want metal gears you either buy the newest Annie with a model number starting with a '9' instead of the older '8' or get one of the newer version chassis for $120 or so. 

Andrew


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Garratt said:


> Cliffy, the replacement gears available are plastic, the same as what comes in the version 5 discounted chassis with metal rods for $55.
> If you want metal gears you either buy the newest Annie with a model number starting with a '9' instead of the older '8' or get one of the newer version chassis for $120 or so.
> 
> Andrew


Thanks for explaining Andrew. So that's one more reason to buy the new one ($220 at Trainworld).


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

A bit of an update, now that I have the new BM chassis. This is one currently available on their site for $55, specifically the 81095 (and not the latest series, beginning with a '9' as Andrew pointed out). BTW, I received the chassis 5 days after I ordered it, and those 5 days included a weekend. 

There are some nice upgrades though, in comparison with the "standard" Big Haulers chassis it will replace. I'll try to describe the differences, but please go easy on me with your corrections, I'm a novice when it comes to steam loco nomenclature.  And by all means feel free to point out everything I've missed.










The new chassis is on the bottom, and you can see that its sand and other piping are not cast against the firebox, but distinct plumbing which could be easily painted. The brake cylinder is far more pronounced. 

Most people speak of the much improved rods and valve gear, and here you see evidence. All is metal, vs. plastic. The drive rod's bearing block has bolt detail; and over all the shaft bearings you have the grease cup. 

Because I model the V&T, I bought a chassis with the simplified (Stevenson) valve gear, so I can't talk about the more advanced linkage (that can be had for the same price). Nevertheless, there are many improvements.










The cylinder and valve box are much more detailed, with rivets, and a front valve (don't know what it is) that is separate and not cast with the cylinder. The crosshead is more detailed and substantial, with the guide rails not hanging in space but supported by a bracket from the chassis. And, more grease cups where you'd expect them.










I really liked the pilot details. The pilot itself seems more realistic, with the beam cast as part of the chassis (and not the pilot). The coupler pin lift bar, and stanchions, are metal. Well, maybe the stanchions are plastic, can't tell; nicely detailed though. And, the flag poles / grab rail are metal too. Vastly improved over the limp plastic versions I'd say.

So, what other changes / improvements do you see?

===>Cliffy


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Can you tell of any differences or improvements related to the 4 wheel pony truck up front?

I'm thinking .. depending on geometry and clearances.. a few other items.. that a pivot arm.. or swing arm would help steady the pony truck.... such that it truly pivots under the chassis.. thus guiding the main drivers better...

Seems as it is that it can just flop n pivot at will...causing problems...

D


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Unfortunately, I see no improvements to that floppy truck. I suppose it's meant to take the tightest of curves. But the only things holding it to the rails are gravity and a light spring, no pivot arm.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I believe the lack an arm is a R1 compromise, that and the pivot point would be in the motor block.
Add weight.


Cliff, gonna free hand the missing Stars? I'd suggest a pencil eraser star stamp and 'print' your stars on the hubs.
John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Kinda odd eh!!?

I could not find... any "V&Trr" locos with stars on their wheel hubs...

Must a missed one sumwhere!

@@


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

The stars were just a BM bonus I think... Artistic license...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Well durn, they got 'em in Texas! 
I saw them on the old chassis...


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

.... jus a 4th a July "Hot Topic" thenn!!

Pass it on....

... keep it on top!!

Too windy fer stars anyway.. or fearworks....
Yep.... windy here too!!

@@.

HAPPY 4TH!! ALL........!!

@@


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Too bad yore dropping them, I like the stars n' pin stripes better than the white dots.
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Here's a nice shot that Dirk found,










Pretty dang plain. The earlier V&T locos were fancied up though, lot purtier.


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