# How to program LGB decoder w/ NCE Pro Cab?



## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

I have an LGB Forney recently reworked with a 55027 LGB decoder. The 4-position "power control switch" was left out of the reworked Forney. It also has a Phoenix sound system. I know from prior experience that LGB decoders have to be programmed on a programming track--not POM. I've been unable to program--just change the address of the loco!--on the programming track using my NCE Pro Cab 10 amp system. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Since the Phoenix is also DCC, you really have 2 decoders in parallel. 
You need a way to remove power from the sound decoder in order to program the 55027 especially for doing reads of registers.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I often put small switches on one of each of the "track input" lines so it's easy to isolate each decoder for programming. There's more sophisticated ways to do this with decoder lock functions, but it's a pain for most people. 

Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

It should still work on a programming track. I have had no problem programming LGB decoders with Phoenix sound installed with my MTSIII so I suspect it's the NCE that doesn't have the "umphfff" to program it. Didn't you have problems with Zimo decoders too Greg because of a lack of power on the programming track? 

Keith


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## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

There's no doubt it's the NCE. Klaus suggested that NCE thought there was a "way" around the problem. As he remembered, it was to put a resistor in series with the programming track leads, but he didn't remember exactly for sure whether that was right and, if so, how many ohms the resistor should be. Does that make sense? Keith suggests the NCE doesn't have the umphff to program it---which is consistent with my previous understanding that the "power switch" on the rear of the furnace box had to be set to "2" (or some number) in order to program, which suggests increasing the voltage going to the programming track. H/e, w/o the power switch, presumably power is going to the lights, smoker, etc. I just don't have the electrical knowledge to understand what happens on the programming track vs POM and why the LGB has to be done on the Programming track. (I've contacted NCE and spoken w/ Matt, who says he's not familiar with the problem. Larry, unfortunately, is out indefinitely on dental leave.) What's your thought about trying a resistor in series as Klaus suggests? Is there any danger in trying it? If not, what type/size resistor would you suggest?


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg should be able to tell you if there is a workaround because I'm pretty sure he went through it with the Zimo. Did you actually try programming the 55027 on the main to see if it would work? I wasn't aware of any restrictions on LGB decoders on the main--and that's a fairly recent one so it might be worth a try. Sorry I can't help with the resistor--I know just enough to be dangerous when it comes to circuits. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

First of all, the NCE is a very robust system. If I had a nickel for every time a high priced European unit was touted as a "better programmer" than a US-made one, I'd be retired by now. 

Let's get back to the first problem, you will NOT be able to do anything with ANY setup where you have these two decoders in parallel on the programming track ... RELIABLY... 

You can play around with light bulbs, resistors, boosters, etc, and that is just silly unless you really want to spend the time experimenting OR you buy a programming booster (which will still not solve all the possible problems), and STILL you have 2 decoders active on a programming track at the same time. 

(By the way, I have a "programmer booster", and have NEVER had to use it, in fact took it out the other day to see if it worked 

Put in the 2 switches and you will be fine. It is true that you can get this to work, because the Phoenix does not respond to every programming command... so CERTAIN THINGS can be done. 

By the way, what the heck is the "power switch on the rear of the furnace box"? Is this on the loco? The loco cannot increase the voltage coming from the command station. 

Make your life simple and put a single pole single throw switch on each of the "input" leads on each decoder. The signal levels on the programming track are low, and extra loads on the track (other decoders, lights, etc.) can interfere. 

Also, the Zimo (and apparently other European systems) does something weird which is not a standard here in the US or in the NMRA standard, but that's the brief power interruption after trying to program a cv... I've encountered this on some bizarre decoders. 

I'm pretty darn sure of what your problem is... and have encountered it many times. Take my advice and you will be done with the problem. 

Regards, Greg


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## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

Greg.... You're the guru! Will take your advice. Any suggestions where I can get small spst switches? Thanx, Dick


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I like digikey for onezies.... or do you have a Frys electronics near by? 

I'd suggest small toggles, not slide switches. The sub-miniature ones at Radio Shack will do fine... 

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062497 

(this picture is big, the switch is small)


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

On all LGB locos that have a switch, there are 3 or 4 positions with the left position marked 0 which is all power off to smoke, lights, motor, and sound. 

Highest number is usually all on. 

Reason for changing the switch position is to disconnect the sound systems with the super caps is to enable stable programming. 

Since the forney had the switch removed (it was on the forney circuit board which I presune was also removed to enable fitting the 55027 in its place note statement 'engine reworked' which I took to mean the engine was electronically gutted/rewired for the decoder and pheoenix sound. 

PS, only the Phoenix needs a power switch if you have the phoenix programmer as the Phoenix programmer uses its own interface to set up the dcc functions.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Unfortunately I don't think your last statement is always true Dan, if the Phoenix is paralleled with another decoder, the load of the Phoenix itself can interfere with the other decoder on the programming track. 

I believe this to be true, I've run into this situation a couple of times, but I cannot be 100% sure, but it's simple insurance and reliability on the programming track here that is at issue. 

I do believe there are a few DCC CV commands that do indeed "read back" on the programming track. 

Read items 1 and 4 on this page also: 

http://kb.phoenixsound.com/index.php?id=7 

Regards, Greg


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## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks, guys. I'm up at 9,000 feet in the Rockies in Colo w/ the closest Radio Shack 58 miles away. When I get into town I'll pick one up or get one online. 
Meanwhile, Greg I have to say I got a kick out of your website video. Had no idea that a train would do so much for one's love life; wish I'd seen it 60 years earlier. Since I got into LS, my wife is all over me! Now I know what caused it! And I'm only 81 years old. Toot, Toot!!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg that article is for programming with a DCC system, my comment was using the phoenix program with the RS232 interface by Phoenix.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry Dan, I missed your caveat on the last line, you are indeed correct. I was still focused on the problem, he cannot program the LGB decoder. 

But you are indeed correct, if you want only to change the locomotive decoder AND you have the Phoenix programmer, then you can do this: 

Use a single switch on the phoenix "input" 
Program LGB decoder on programming track with the phoenix off 
Use the phoenix programmer to set the DCC address ... 

But in this mode, he will be UNABLE to set the Phoenix address with the NCE... 

So, while it CAN be done, only using one switch now requires you to have the phoenix programmer and use 2 different programmers to change the loco address (since you need to change the phoenix too at the same time) 

Therefore my recommendation stands with 2 switches, then either (and both) decoders can be programmed on the programming track via the NCE. 

Regards, Greg


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