# Roundhouse Engineering S.R.&R.L. 24?



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Is it a user friendly engine? do they pull well? what are your opinions on this engine? also, what scale is it? 1:20.3? or 7/8th? thanks


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate,
The SR&RL #24 is a 1:19th scale engine. In the UK there are lots of 2' gauge (and 60cm gauge) lines, like the SR&RL. The UK guys use gauge 0 track (32mm gauge) to represent 2', which is 16mm:ft or 1:19 scale. (SM32 is the same, the SM stands for Sixteen Millimeters.)

There is very little difference between 1:19 and 1:20.3, although it is wrongly gauged for our gauge-1 track at 45mm. Roundhouse, of course, chooses prototype outside-frame locos and sets the frames so that 45mm is practical, with 32mm as an option. [So you need to check a used engine to see what it is set for.]

As far as how it goes - it's a Roundhouse. They are the 'gold standard' for ease of use.
I don't have one, but I know a load of guys who do and I am sure they will chime in with their experiences.


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

pete, do you know how well the burners work on roundhouse locos?


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate, 

The burners work very well. They light from the stack or under the cylinder assembly. The smokebox door does not open !! You have to adjust the burner by listening to it and how it sounds. It takes practice and experience to manage one . If the burner is set to high , it will burn in the smokebox and burn the paint. 

They are very nice models and run " Like a Roundhouse ". I have 2 Roundhouse models and they are superb. That being said, Sandy River models command a high price in the used market. 2 friends of my have paid between $ 2,200.00 and $ 2,400.00 for their models in the last 8 months.

Charles M SA#74


----------



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Mine runs great! I have enjoyed it since 1994. She will pull all my Maine style freight cars 12 or so with ease. Very Controllable with its R/C. Cost me $2200 or so new.


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate;

I love running my two Roundhouse locomotives. I have added a Summerland Chuffer to each of them. The Millie is a pot boiler with slip eccentrics. This was my first little live steamer, but starting with a Roundhouse did spoil me. I tend to prefer Roundhouse locomotives now.










Gandalf is the ALCO WWI trench locomotive, and does come with a reverser. It is also a 2-6-2 like the SR&RL tender locomotive. Both locomotives steam well, but I do have to make sure Gandalf has enough cars in the train. Otherwise, the locomotive wants to race off "like a scalded cat!"










Regards,
David Meashey


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

it is the only american engine built by roundhouse, correct?


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

The ALCO was built in the US for the British to use in WWI in France. The SR&RL was built and used in the US.

Hope that one of those answers is the one you were seeking.

David Meashey


----------



## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Nate, #24 is actually closer to 1:21 as it was designed and scaled to go together with LGB equipment. For many years this was the top Roundhouse product. There are at least two generations of this engine MkI and MKII differing in technical details. Of course it is a user friendly engine and pulls well - it is a Roundhouse. Best wishes from Radom, Zubi


----------



## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

zubi said:


> Nate, #24 is actually closer to 1:21 as it was designed and scaled to go together with LGB equipment. ...There are at least two generations of this engine MkI and MKII differing in technical details.


I agree on the scale as it is small in stature when compared to a true 1:19 16mm/foot scale model. As you say, there are several differences between Mk1 and Mk2, the main one being that the Mk2 has a sprung chassis and Mk1 does not.


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks! the gas tank is in the cab, correct?
it is definitely a very pretty engine!
http://www.roundhouse-eng.com/srrl24.htm

it says it has a water top up system- so does this mean it has an axle pump to pump the water from the tender? thanks, Nate


----------



## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

Gas tank in the cab.

Water top-up by Goodall valve and pump bottle.

Tender carries radio equipment.


----------



## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

You cant go wrong with a Roundhouse. I have the Sammie and it runs great out of the box and even to this day it it runs just as good if not better. I wish they would produce the Forney again. That's the one Im waiting for.


----------



## Two Foot Cal (Aug 3, 2008)

*RH SR&RL #24 Scale*

This will give you a size comparison between the RH SR&RL #24 and a scale 1:19 model of SR&RL #23. The actual #23 was slightly larger than the #24 but shared many of the same components.


----------



## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Two Foot Cal, #23 looks like a live steamer. Did you scratchbuild it yourself? Best wishes from Radom, Zubi


----------



## Two Foot Cal (Aug 3, 2008)

Yes it is butane fired live steam in 1:19 Scale operating on 32mm Gauge track. The Mt. Greta Railway #23 was home built over a 2 year period and completed this past March. You will be able to read about how I built it in the upcoming issue of "Steam in the Garden". I tried to utilize 3D printing to create most of the raw parts and then completed the machining myself.


----------



## zubi (May 14, 2009)

It looks truly fantastic, Zubi


----------



## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

zubi said:


> It looks truly fantastic, Zubi


Having seen it for myself, I can confirm that it truly is!


----------



## Two Foot Cal (Aug 3, 2008)

Thank you very much for the nice compliments.

You can view a video of it in operation here:






Ric


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric, 2200 new that was along time ago! Current prices are pushing 4k. I do have a used one here I need to list up on my website. All black. MK1. RC Its going to be listed for 2800.00 Its very clean. As the first run it has the handpump too.

Nate, these run well. RH light and operate all the same. With the exception of the new Garratt they all share the same burner.


----------



## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Two Foot Cal, thanks for the video. The engine runs great! The boiler looks distinctly Accucraft in style. Cannibalised? Is the track PECO SM32? Does it hold up well outdoors? Best wishes from Radom, Zubi


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

is the walsherts valve gear functional, or is it just cosmetic?


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Ric;

I don't want to derail the thread, but I am curious about something. I grew up in Lebanon County, in Palmyra. I thought that the Mount Gretna Railroad only had two 4-4-0s, built by Baldwin. I had hiked the Gov. Dick trail (the old roadbed of the MGRR) many times "back in the day." Is your locomotive a "what if" locomotive?

I am a "what if" modeler as well. My equipment represents a railroad, the Brandywine & Gondor Railroad, built during the Fourth Age of Middle Earth. Locomotives are named for characters in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.









Best wishes,
David Meashey


----------



## Two Foot Cal (Aug 3, 2008)

*Mt. Greta Ry # 23*

The boiler was custom built by me to match the size of the real one, except of course the real 23 was coal fired and mine is gas fired with 2 Regner long burners supplied by Jason at the Train Dept. 

The valve gear is fully functional as per the prototype and is manually controlled by the Johnson bar in the cab. R/C is installed on the throttle. The valve gear was 3D Printed in stainless steel. I finished it by cleaning up the printing lines, boring the connecting pin holes and installing brass bushings.

The Mt. Greta Railway is our own creation, named after one of our miniature schnauzer's we had back in the 1990's. It is a free lance 2 foot gauge railway built in the Northern California Foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountains operating in the 1950's. 

We used PECO SM32, code 200 track when the railway was established in 1996 and it has held up very well considering our summer time temperatures reaching over 100 degrees F. This past year, as a test of larger rail, we did relay a portion of the original mainline with Sunset Valley 32mm gauge, code 250 aluminum rail. So far we are very pleased with the SV track and may install more in the future.

Nate, Our Roundhouse 24 is an early Mark I loco with hand pump in the tender and gas tank located in the top of the cab. It has been an excellent running loco for many years, easy to operate (have upgraded the R/C system to 2.4 gHz) easy on gas and quite powerful for it's size.


----------



## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> is the walsherts valve gear functional, or is it just cosmetic?


The Roundhouse valve gear is a 'simplified' Walschaerts gear - which means that it works just like the fully functional gear with the exception that the combination lever and the union link don't do anything other than move to and fro and look good.

The lack of functionality of these links just means that the use of steam is not quite so efficient as there is no ability to vary the cut-off or 'notch back'. Full throttle running is not affected when the Johnson bar is in the full forward or reverse position.


----------



## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

I once had a SR24 and it was by far the most reliable and best running locomotive in my fleet. The burner always lit on first try and never once failed for any reason. I found that 1:24 scale cars looked the best behind the SR24, so I built a couple of kits and scratch-built the rest including a SR 556 Caboose. 

Here is a video of it running just before I sold it to a happy owner.





Note it is radio controlled and has a DBJ whistle installed. Also, notice how nice the 1:24 scale cars go with the locomotive.


----------



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to agree with Carl, mine hasn't skipped a beat since I got. LG


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

John
I believe you may be mistaken when you say that a Walschaerts gear runs the same in full gear with or without a working combination lever.
There is a noticeable increase in power and it will run much smoother and more economically with the combination lever. However, you cant just add a combination lever as the system needs to be designed so all of the parts work in union


----------



## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Hi Bill - I would agree that you cannot just add a combination lever as the system has to be designed to work as a complete system. However I would disagree with you when you say - "There is a noticeable increase in power and it will run more smoothly and economically with the combination lever"

Firstly - If your developing more power for the same steam consumption, then you must be running more efficiently - conversly - if you're running more efficiently for the same steam consumption, then you must be developing more power.

Secondly - you can design the system to run at maximum efficiency - or maximum power - or maximum cut-off - for any intermediate position of the Johnson bar, but the reason I added the proviso that the Johnson bar had to be in the full forward or full reverse position was because in our model world there would be very few occasions, if any, when you would want to sacrifice the ability to develope maximum power just to gain some efficiency at some intermediate position of the Johnson bar.

So - If you want to design for maximum power with no regard for efficiency, it follows that - if you want to dispose of the complications of the combination lever and the union link - the one point that you would choose to design for would be wide open throttle with the gear notched right up. At which point there would be no difference between a gear with a combination lever and a gear without.

Therefore - the addition of a combination lever does not *necceassarily* give you more power (or more efficiency) at intermediate positions of the Johnson bar (or increased smoothness because of the cusioning effect of the greater cut off) and ultimately, no more power than a gear designed for maximum power at full throttle and 'notched up' but without a combination lever.


----------



## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Bought my Lady Anne in 1989,runs great reliable just recently i had to replace all the running gear(bushings linkages cranks)i americanized to fit my rolling stock,this engine has the most miles under her wheels can't kill it ! Timeless!


----------



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi John
Not to rob this thread or demean anything you said and hopefullu to shead some light on a dark subject...

What the combination lever does is eliminate the lap at dead center and provide for a set lead. An engine with Faux Walschaerts will have a certain amount of lap which will retard the timing thus making is less powerful and less efficient. It becomes basically a single eccentric simple valve gear. Similar to a car with the timing retarded.

I had an engine with the dummy combo and converted it to working Walschaerts and the difference was amazing

It is true that Walschaerts (or similar gear) can be notched back without changing the lead because of the combination lever as the Stephenson cannot, This is the main difference between the two, but, the Stephanson is a two eccentric system whereas the Faux Walschaerts isn't
The Roundhouse and the Accucraft engines run great and if you feel that our little engines are fine with their power and steam consumption, fine. If you want them to run like an Aster then a correct valve gear is in order.


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

A few other differences I have noticed between the MKl and MKll Sandy River Loco's. I am not trying to put the MKll's down in any way, they are beautiful Loco's and run great. *IMHO* the redesign looks to me to have been done to figure out a way to produce the Loco cheaper. Leaving out the tender pump, different cylinders, sheet metal cylinder covers, and stamped out metal parts (Leaf spring detail) in the frame. The MKl's seem like "beefier" Loco's, in a good way. 

Before I get my (You know what) kicked  for saying this let me add the MKll improvements. Two tone paint job (many still prefer all black), gas tank that allows easier access to all in the cab, sprung chassis and a top up water valve. (Can be added to a MKl)

Either way, you can't go wrong. *They are Classic engines in this hobby !*


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks steve  art, i assume the one without the lettering is yours,and your other one is still at TRS getting put back together? 

thanks, Nate


----------



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> thanks steve  art, i assume the one without the lettering is yours,and your other one is still at TRS getting put back together?
> 
> thanks, Nate


It is still at TRS. It will be put back together sometime. Yes the one with out the lettering on tender is mine. Guess we could put "Tomahawk & Western RR" on it.
What do tyou think about that?


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Hmm.. sounds good to me! i got a little bored, so i went back to good ol' photoshop!


----------



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> Hmm.. sounds good to me! i got a little bored, so i went back to good ol' photoshop!


Looks pretty good. We shall see.


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

sounds good to me too!

take care, Nate


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

has anyone ever tried moving the gas tank to the tender?


----------



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> has anyone ever tried moving the gas tank to the tender?


Nate
Really no need for tender tank. More reasons to have problems with fuel source. Also you do have some heat from loco to keep fuel in proper densuity.
The two SRRL's in video have Goodall valves and also can have tenfer used for water. The piping
that is yused is available. We just like the Goodall vales for convience.
One great thing about the Roundhouse SRRL is the fuel runs out about the time the water runs out.
Gauge sometinmes gets out of whack and can be adjusted easily.


----------



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Art,
So yours is equipped with both a goodal and a tender pump, correct?

also, did you get my PM?

take care, Nate


----------



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> Art,
> So yours is equipped with both a goodal and a tender pump, correct?
> 
> also, did you get my PM?
> ...


It does have the pump but does not have piping from tender to loco.
No piping out of the pump.
Yes I got the PM.


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Ric, That is a beautiful locomotive!! I will be looking forward to seeing your build in SitG.


----------



## Two Foot Cal (Aug 3, 2008)

*Mgr 23*



placitassteam said:


> Ric, That is a beautiful locomotive!! I will be looking forward to seeing your build in SitG.


Thanks Winn, It was a very challenging but enjoyable project from start to finish, but then as the pictures of your beautiful NdeM sleeper show, it is the challenge and reward of completing a fine model that drives the enthusiasm.

Best Wishes, Ric


----------

