# Yet another MTS vs DCC question



## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

I really like how the LGB MTS Switch Decoder 55024 integrates cleanly into 
the EPL switch. This is especially nice for temporary holiday layouts. The question is, 
does this MTS device work under control of a modern DCC system - such as Zimo MX1/2? 

Generally MTS is kinda pre-DCC standard stuff?


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Chata: 
The LGB switch decoder was designed and Manufactured by Massoth. It works with MTSII and MTSIII which are also designed and Manufactured by Massoth. MTSII is a primitive DCC system, MTSIII is a fully implemented DCC system intendend for small layouts. Since the LGB decoder works with MTSII and MTSIII it can work flawlessly with *any NMRA compliant* DCC system including modern DCC system such as the Massoth Z800 and the Massoth Z1200 central station. I have a few LGB switch decoders on my layout which is controlled by a Massoth 1210Z central station and they work flawlessly. 

Mohammed


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The manual states that it can be used on non mts units. Higher addresses can be programmed via cv1 and cv9. CV9 can be a 1 to 9 to give 2047 addresses. 

Best way is to have someone with a Zimo station check this out. 

I am willing to do this, but I only have the zimo station, and epl drives, not the 55024.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Or an NCE station, which can also manually control the 3 different modes of CV programming, not automatically decide for you always. Sometimes a great advantage for debugging. 

Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a couple of the 55024 single channel decoders--they are nice little units and great that you just plug them into the switch machine, connect to the adjacent track power and away you go--that's why I got them. They will work with any DCC system. 

Keith


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Keith: that is the nice thing about them, they just plug in as if they specifically made for the EPL switch, and they were. However, they are expensive and they have limited capabilities compared to the Massoth branded single decoder. 

Mohammed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I see the 55024 for about $65. 

I see the Massoth decoder 8156501 for about $60. 

So, I see the LGB literally plugs into the LGB switch machine. 

So the Massoth plugs into the switch in exactly the same way? If so, then maybe it's a wash. 

For $5 difference I don't think branding the LGB as expensive and the Massoth as not expensive is a true or fair or objective statement. 

What can the Massoth do that the LGB one cannot? 

Thanks, Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

The Massoth single decoder 8156001 can be used to control a switch, a motor, or a light and compared to the LGB 55024 single switch decoder, it offers the following additional features: (1) RC servo control, (2) 15-step dimmable function output , (3) auto-reversing mode, and (4) multiple programming options. Yet, The street price of the Massoth single switch decoder is 12% less than the street price of the LGB 55024 switch decoder.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

At the time I got mine, Massoth didn't have their own version, otherwise I likely would have gone that way. 

Keith


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Keith: I also bought mine when Massoth didn't their own version. I have since bought a of Massoth single switch decoder and installed it in an old LGB hot metal car to control the bucket.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Mohammed, sounds like it's a better choice now. 

Can you point me to an online manual, would like to read up on this, sounds like some interesting features. 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Of course you can control the LGB switch decoder with ZIMO (or any other DCC system).

As far as MTS III being a full fledged DCC system, that is in many respects not correct. As an MTS system with MTS controllers it still only does 14 speed steps, programming limitations exist similarly as they existed in the past. So what we have to define is when do we consider a DCC system full fledged. IN my book of definitions I would not say MTS III is full-fledged. To that degree (since costs are similar) I would rather buy the PIKO version of Massoth, then the LGB version of Massoth.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Full-fledged means having all your "adult" feathers to a bird, complete. 

Yep, 14 speed steps is not full-fledged, it's antique. There are some decoders that won't even respond to this anymore... 

I would imagine it also cannot access high numbered CV's either. 

Regards, Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Acutally, The LGB MTSIII central is capable of handling 28 speed steps when connected to a Massoth DiMAX Navigator. Keith would certainly knows this. 

Mohammed


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB MTSIII central is capable of handling 28 speed steps when connected to a Massoth DiMAX Navigator. Keith would certainly knows this. 

Sure do, and it works great. And with the navigator you can program the higher addresses and CV's directly too. I actually find that the 14 speed steps are just fine if you spend the time setting the momentum, starting voltage, speed curve and back-emf CV's properly. Remember, too, that if you are running 28 speed steps, and cut the top speed in half (which I always do for prototypical speeds), you effectively have compressed those 28 so it acts like 56 etc. Then if you make the speed curve more parabolic than linear, you get even more resolution in the slow speed range where you need it. I think the only time you would know I wasn't running 128 speed steps would be on starting up, and even then most locos are smooth enough you wouldn't notice. I think it also helps that the motors in all my locomotives are Buehlers--speed steps may become more important with can motors with less poles. I am looking forward to getting my Kiss Tm2/2 RhB engine from Axel next year with the Zimo decoder, then I will be able to do direct comparisons between the Massoth and Zimo decoders on the 14 or 28 speed steps and see how they compare. 
As Axel mentions, though, the new Piko system should be more capable than the older MTSIII, with the exception of not having the port for updates etc. 

Keith


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Keith: I do take time fine tuning the driving curve and I am impressed with the low speed resolution I get from the Massoth decoders. Have you taken advandage of the mappable switching speed function buit in the massoth decoders, it takes low speed control to another level. 
You would expect the Piko system to be more capable since it is a newer, but I have not heard of any additional capabilities that are of any consequence. I also have no doubt that LGB and Massoth have made changes to the MTSIII central station to give it those capabilities. The problem with the LGB system is LGB insistence on staying with their basic CAB controllers (a raison d'etre for the Massoth Navigator). 

Mohammed


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## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

Wow. Quite a large response. Thanks folks!

Interesting all this discussion of speed steps though - nothing to do with switches really AFAIK.

I suppose if you're willing to open and hack your LGB EPL switch then the most cost effective option for single switches would be to jam that small little MX82 into the EPL for only $29. Compare that to $65 and $55 respectively for the LGB 55024 or Massoth 8156001. It's obviously the cost of the screw terminals and plastics driving the extra cost which is not necessary if you're jamming a little DCC decoder inside the original EPL enclosure.

The downside with the MX82 conversion is that you permanently loose the mechanism for the external supplemental LGB 12070 switch. And by permanently I mean, destructive removal. But you probably don't need it if you're going DCC anyway. Or perhaps you loose the ability to use a supplemental switch with the 55024 and Massoth too since it blocks the screw terminals also?


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