# alternate track jointing connections



## Blk69 (Dec 6, 2009)

Need some advice regarding the joiners on my LGB track (running tack power). Going to be installing my first LGB railroad outdoors this spring, have LGB track. For a test, I reshaped my stock rail jointers and put two 1' sections together. At first looked great. I started wiggling the track sections a little (simulating thermal expansion) and things started loosing up. Concerned over time this may be a real problem.

I am thinking about soldering all the joint to improve conductivity. Concerned if I have to modify layout or replace a section of track, this will be a challenge getting things to separate.

My thought is to use a 3rd party rail joiner (kind that slips over the tracks and has set screws) every five feet or so and solder the rest. In the event I have to modify, I can remove a five foot section of track, apposed to trying to unsolder a joint outside. Joints will all 3rd party rail joiners is preferred, but out of the budget (would need about 100).

What are you all doing that is working (minimal maintenance). I am sure this topic has come up many times before, having issues searching this forum. Also thought about drilling and taping my track jointers similar to the aristocraft system (wish I had bought aristocraft track). Not sure how hard it is to drill and tap brass rail.

Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated. If my family and I spend too much time tracing down dead section of track this summer (opposed to running trains) concerned we will all loose interest quickly. Wanting a positive family experience.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you are going to be outside, you need more secure rail connections than the stock joiner that comes with the track. Over the years that I have had track outside (30+) I have used three different connections, four if you count the original joiners: 0-80 bolts and nuts drilled through the stock joiner and the rail, #4 self tapping stainless steel screws drilled down through the rail joiner and the foot of the rail, at 45 degrees, and rail clamps. Rail clamps are easier and more expensive, but the other two have also been very reliable. I dip them in a conducting grease when I install them. No problems yet!!

I have not felt the need to solder the joins or use a soldered jumper wire. 

Here are some pictures the secure joins that I use.

Rail clamps are ideal for switches.

self tapping stainless screw.









0-80 nut and bolt




























These have held up well over the years.

Chuck


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Not a good idea to solder the joiners to the rails as you won't be able to get the rails apart in the future. Better (and cheaper than aftermarket joiners) to just use the stock joiners and solder jumper wires between the rail sections. Then you can just cut or unsolder the jumper if the need arises.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

While the stock joiners and jumper wires will work, I find that rail clamps keep the rails aligned better, but are not perfect. Changes in weather over the years will allow even the clamps to not conduct power, so jumpers across the joints would be better even with clamps.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I used a conductive grease for 18 years with no problems. Pick it up at a electronics store. 

Don


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## Blk69 (Dec 6, 2009)

Thank you for all sharing your techniques. The pictures really help explain things. 

Chuck. that is great you were able to use the existing rail joiner for connections. Do you have a preference between the self tapping screws or using the bolts? My guess is that it is easier to drill the 45 deg thru the bottom of the rail and joiner then to drill from the side. Have you ever used bolts instead of the screws when going thru the bottom rail and jointer. I really like the bolts because looks easy to attach a power feeder at the nut. 

Toddalin. I am planning on doing something similar for my solder joints. I have read that the solder joints typically are not strong and overtime will weaken and flack off outdoors? Have you ever experienced this? Are you using standard flux core solder? What size conductor have you had success with? I was thinking of using #14 solid copper (already have some) for the jumpers. Do you think if I greased the rail joiners before soldering, the grease would stay (not melt out) during the solder process. Would like to keep as much water as possible out of the rail jointers. 

Dan. After how many years of service did you start to see your rail clamps fail? Some of my LGB brass track has some hints of turning green on the side of the rails (assume faulty materials). Was joint to try to keep some oil on the tracks to help with corrosion. 

Trains. That is great you are able to use the stock rail jointers. What type of track are you using? It is amazing how some layouts have no issue with conductivity and others are plagued with problems. Do you have any other magic going on other then the grease? 

One general question, how often are you attaching a power connection to your track. I was planning on attaching a power connection every 10 feet. At the local large scale club, a couple of members claimed using rail clamps a single power connection will be sufficient. If I did this with my indoor O scale layout I would be lucky to get 1/2 way around the tracks (20' or so). Thinking outdoors with the elements keeping power to the engine is even more difficult.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

"Chuck. that is great you were able to use the existing rail joiner for connections. Do you have a preference between the self tapping screws or using the bolts? My guess is that it is easier to drill the 45 deg thru the bottom of the rail and joiner then to drill from the side. Have you ever used bolts instead of the screws when going thru the bottom rail and jointer. I really like the bolts because looks easy to attach a power feeder at the nut."


I really don't have a preference. I think that the bolt/nut looks better, but the self tapping screw is a little easier to install and it is easy to put an "eye" connector on the end of the power cord and just tighten it down. No muss no fuss. If your rail joiners are clean and you use a conducting grease on the joiner and the screw you should be good for a long time. I do not think that the bolt going down at 45 degrees would work very well. The nut would only contact on one side and might not be as secure a connection.

I have about 90' of main line. I have a power feed on the opposite side, about 45' from the primary feed. The brass rail is an excellent conductor as long as your joins are clean and secure you won't need many feeds. Remember the electricity goes in both directions around the loop. 

Brass rail contains copper. It will oxidize outside. Green or black on the sides is not a problem. Just keep the top clean.

Occasionally, I might have to retighten a rail clamp and a couple of times I've had to replace one because it split.










Chuck


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

My track has been out since 1997 and gets watered 3 times a day. I think that I've had just one joint fail that should have had more solder on it.

I use 63/37 solder (melts at a slightly lower temp). After scratching away the oxidation along the foot off the rail where it is to go (on both pieces of track), I put on some flux and scratch it into the metal so it can start working. I cut the piece of wire (16 gauge "bond wire") and put a bit of flux on each end and lay it where it the ends stay clean and I can reach it (just stradding the rails usually). Then I take my Weller 250/325 watt gun in my right hand to heat the spot on the right-side rail and using my left hand, rub the solder into the rail so it gets a nice bond into the metal. Keeping the heat on, I put the wire into the blob of solder pushing it into position using my left hand and remove the iron holding the wire in place with my left hand until it solidifies.

I then take the iron in my left hand to do the left side. Again, I heat the rail and rub it with the solder to get it to melt into a nice blob. _This time using a screwdriver_, I'll push the free section of wire into the blob in position and remove the heat. Hold it there with the screwdriver for a few seconds and you are ready to move on.

If they are short, it is best to do 3-4 sections on the work bench then take them out to the railroad to save your back. When you get good at it, you won't even melt the tie rivet detail.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I live in South Eastern Massachusetts and we see weather over the years that ranges from -20 to over a hundred degrees with near 0 to over 100 per cent humidity(that is sometimes called rain/sleet/snow). 
Therefore my methods work for me with these extremes. 
If you live in an area that never freezes, then joiners only may work for you, but here where I live they will not work long term. Ice will make them spread and loosen thus making the track not align as my track floats in ballast.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

When I first built my layout in Denver in the early 1980s, I did not have any secure rail connections. I used rail joiners as they came on the track. Everything went well for the first year or two. Then I started having problems. I found that occasionally a rail joiner would fail. It would break along the bend where it comes around the foot of the rail. This always occurred on the inside edge of the rail. That is when I started using the nut and bolt to secure the pieces of track together. Then Byron Fenton of the Denver club came up with the self tapping screw as a secure join. I have not had any problems with broken joiners since. I agree with Dan, I think that it was the repeated freeze thaw and the movement of the track through thermal expansion over the years that caused the problem. 


Chuck


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Blk69, 
Ran for about 18 years with LGB 1600 curves and Aristo 3 foot straights. That's all that was available back when I started. All I used was the grease no clamps or 
screws. Then I seen the light and changed over to batteries.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

He DID, seen the light. ...LOL


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