# My KADEE installs for Aristo, LGB, and USA rolling stock.



## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I am in the process of changing all my rolling stock to the new Kadee 900 series couplers.
I really like the look and strength of these couplers, and I like the fact that once completed any engine will be able to pull any car regardless of who it's made by.
I realize that many of you have already done this or have done it a different way but I figured that maybe some of the new people would like the information.
I tried to find the least complicated way to do each car. I also prefer to use the new 907's when possible, but thats just me







. 

I have already made a post about my Aristo Craft 2 bay coal car mods HERE .
I will post my other mods on this thread just to keep them all in one easy place to find.

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*RE: My KADEE installs for Aristo and USA rolling stock.*

Nicely done Ron, 

-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

*RE: My KADEE installs for Aristo and USA rolling stock.*

I'm going to repost the first mod because I wanted to use a different host,

This is my Kadee 907 install on the Aristo Craft ECLST dow chemical tanker.

The only parts needed for this mod is 1 package of Kadee 907 couplers (which comes with the screws you'll need), 
and 1 Kadee 1/16" shim which you cut in half and use one half for each coupler(841 for black, 941 for brown)


 
The fist thing to do is remove the truck and cut off the coupler support arm, which is pretty straight forward.
Then I trim about 2mm from each side of the coupler mounting base, I use the 907 coupler as the gage on how much material to remove.
Just trim evenly from both sides untill the coupler lies flat and centered on the frame.


 
The next step is to place and center the 907 in the opening of the car frame and pick up the hole closest to the coupler.
I then take one of the shim half's and pick up the same hole on it, it's easier to place the shim on the coupler and drill through the coupler into the shim. 

Once you have that done use the #4 3/4" screw that comes with the coupler and screw it through the car frame and the shim into the 907
until it is flush and secure on the car frame.

I then center the 907 once more and pick up the remaining hole through the shim and car frame, 

NOTE !! be careful NOT to drill into the tank itself just through the shim and car frame. 

Use the #4 1/2" screw for that hole. 


 
 
Once you have that done just trim off the point of the screw sticking out the bottom of the coupler (once you see the length that you need you can precut the screws which is how I did it), paint the screw heads and your all set!

 
The whole process only takes about 15 minutes start to finish once you get the hang of it.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

*RE: My KADEE installs for Aristo and USA rolling stock.*

My next installment will be the conversion of a USA Trains PRR Aluminum combine using a Kadee 907 coupler.
I only mod the lead car because the couplers that come with them are very good and don't need to be changed.

The problem with them, as with a lot of USA stuff, is they are WAY to low when compared to the Kadee height gage.


 

The first step is to remove the coupler and its support base from the car, 4 screws. Then remove the coupler from the support base by removing the single screw on top and then popping off the plastic cover and removing the two screws that secure it to the base.


 

The next step in to mod the Kadee 907 by removing approx 2mm from the base of the coupler (adjust this amount as needed to align with the Kadee height gage), as shown in silver paint, you are basically removing the raised legs making a single flush mounting surface. 
I chose to also shave the back "T" so I could move the coupler a little closer to the base but is not required if that's not as important to you.


 

Next step is to mount the 907 to the coupler base. I mounted the coupler on the underside of the base. 
I drilled a 1/4" hole in the 907 where the nut plate for the original coupler would hit which allows the Kadee to sit flush on the base (look close at the pic you'll see the nut plate through the 907). You could just grind off the nut plate, but this way allows you to reinstall the original USA coupler if you ever want to.
I then secured the 907 to the bottom of the base with two 4 x 1/2" screws.


 

The last step is to trim off about 1/4" from the bottom of the rubber bumper and then reattach the coupler base to the bottom of the car using the four screws.


 

The end result is a clean easy 907 install that brings the coupler up to the correct height, and allows the cars to still maintain their minimum curves.


 

Next up will be a Kadee 907 install on my new LGB ore cars.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

*RE: My KADEE installs for Aristo and USA rolling stock.*

The next mod is for the LGB ore cars using Kadee 907's.
This was one of the easiest one's to do and also had the greatest improvement vs the stock couplers.

The first step is to remove the trucks, trim off the stock coupler arm flush, and replace the plastic wheels with Aristo 29111b metal wheels, 
if you use different wheels you may need to shim the coupler to get the correct height.

Then turn the car upside down and remove the single black screw and the trim piece on the front of the car (its just pressed in).
I used that screw hole as the main mounting point for the 907 making for exact spacing for all the cars.


 
screw and trim piece removed 
 
Then I trimmed off the rear of 907 to allow wheel truck travel, I made my cut in the center of the hole on the 907 shank. 
 

The 907 is then mounted to the car, using the existing hole from where you removed the screw, with a 4 x 3/4" screw through the existing hole on the coupler body (I pilot drilled the hole with a #40 bit). Then center the 907 and secure the first screw. I then added another screw threw the shank of the 907 to keep it from twisting (be careful not to over tighten the rear screw or else you'll crack the shank). Another option is to cut the shank off completely and use just the single mounting screw. 

 

Here is the result with the Kadee height gage. 
 

The consist now looks much more realistic and the cars can still handle 4 foot curves. 
A nice side effect of moving the cars closer together is that the hoses on the front and rear of the car appear to all be connected










 

That's all there is to it, very simple with great operating results









The next mod will be for Aristo Craft covered gondola's.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: My KADEE installs for Aristo and USA rolling stock.*

That coupler sits a little low. Kadees can be real sensitive to coupler height when they are body mounted to long cars and you have steep grades. Going the extra distance to get it spot on is helpful. Your layout has no grades to speak of, so you won't have any problems. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

*RE: My KADEE installs for Aristo and USA rolling stock.*

Greg thats just the angel of the photo I think, it's as close as any other mod I have done, and compared to stock couplers it's a major improvement. 
I can't imagine how bad the track work would have to be where 1/32 of an inch or so would cause uncoupling









Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Next up is the Aristo Craft Nickel Plate Road covered gondola from ECLSTS.
This is also a very simple one to do. 
For this mod I will be using Kadee 908's (because the covered gondola's sit very low and I didn't want to cut up the car's frame), 
1 trimmed kadee 841 1/16" shim (or two 1/32" shims, which I used because I had a lot of the left over from other mods







)
and one 6 x 1" and 6 x 3/4" screws (I used the 6's this time because Lowes did not have any 4 x 1" screws).

 

The first step is to remove the trucks and remove the coupler's. You won't have to cut off the coupler arms this time, just turn them around 
so the long arm is pointed towards the middle of the car.

Then take one 1/16" (or two 1/32") Kadee 841 shim and trim off the end just past the 3 screw holes.
Place the shim on top of the raised lips of the car floor and flush to the front of the car.
Next thing is to center the 908 and pilot drill the hole in the coupler body, through the shim and the car floor.
Secure the coupler using the 1" screw and recheck to make sure it's centered.
Then drill the second hole through the existing hole in the coupler shank, through the shim and car floor, and secure it using the 3/4" screw.

 

Then reinstall the trucks making sure to put the long arm towards the center of the car.

 

Here are the results with the height gage.

 

Again another simple mod that will bring you great results.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That last one is perfect, the other one is low. 

I won't repeat myself, but if you ever come to California, I'll be happy to show you how 1/16" of an inch can make a difference. (It's low by at least that). I pull 50 car trains with long cars and 3.5% grades. That should provide food for the imagination. 

Aristo couplers have a "shelf" underneath, there's a reason. They can take all kinds of vertical grade transitions. The Kadee has no such protection. If you visit someone's layout and watch some Kadees body mounted on long cars, watch what happens at the beginning of a grade. 

As I stated before, on your layout no problem, but since you are advising others, this is meant to be helpful and is based on a lot of experience. 

With Kadees, going that extra mile to get them at exactly the right height can pay off. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

OK Greg I'll take your word for it.
That being said I went back to the LGB car to look for a simple way to correct the slight height discrepancy.
I think I found a solution that will correct it and not require major modification to either the car frame or coupler.

The first step is to remove the coupler and then the coupler mounting bracket. 
Then trim off a piece of 1/16th Kadee 841 shim and place it in between the screw holes of the coupler mounting bracket.
(I had plenty of scrap pieces left over from the previous gondola mod, and is the reason I save them







)


 

Then reattach the mounting bracket and install the truck and your all set.
Here is how it lines up to the Kadee Height gage now, dead on perfect! 

 

Thanks for the input Greg.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Beautiful! 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I finished up adding Kadee 907's to my 2012 ECLSTS Aristo 100 ton shows cars this past month.
The main problem with the Aristo 100 ton car's is that they don't have a solid frame to mount the couplers to.
I read over Ted's vin on how he accomplished it and was really impressed with his method (as usual







), but since I didn't have any sheet metal or a mini brace I decided to try a different way.
I have had great success using Weld-On 16 in fusing plastic for some other projects I had been working on, and was really impressed with the outcomes.
I decided to give it a try on the 100 ton coal cars.

The first thing you have to do is remove the paint from the mating surfaces to assure a solid weld.
I placed some Weld-on on them, let it sit for a few seconds and then wiped off the paint/glue, perfect.

Then I placed a small bead of Weld-on on both mating surfaces and allowed them to setup for about 30 seconds, and then mated the two surfaces and held them flush until the glue set (about 5 minutes or so).
Once one end was secured I did the same thing to the other end. Keep in mind that the surfaces must be flush so the shims will sit level. I let the cars cure over night before mounting the couplers.
Remember to be careful with the excess glue as it will remove the paint. 





Once the ends had cured I added 3.5 MM of shim stock, cut to fit the beams of course and flush to the end of the car, and also glued them to the beams using weld-on, and allowed them to cure for an hour or so.

Then I mounted the Kadee 907's using a 1/2" #4 screw in the inner , and #4 3/4" screw on the outer one.






The other mod to these cars where adding ball bearings and Aristo Metal wheels.
Here is the finished product, (note I plan to paint the screw heads and shim edges later to complete the mod).







This was a quick and easy Kadee install.
The Weld-on is a very strong bond if done correctly. I tried to pull the frames apart and was unable to, the end of the car started to bow before the Welded ends separated and I didn't want to break the frame.
It remains to be seen how the Weld-on holds up over time, but I think it will be fine, and I will let you know.

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron, 

Thanks for showing your nice weld method for the Aristo 100 ton hopper. 
It's always good to present different ways to accomplish things. 

Did you use some kind of jig to hold the mating surface whilst waiting the 5 minutes for the weld to set? 

Thank you, 
-Ted


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ron 
thank you for your time, you got me on the redo of the lgb where did you put the spacer under the coupler or the truck


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Ted,
I basically just held it in place and used my eye to keep things level.
It's pretty easy since it is tacky after waiting the 30 seconds and it sets fast, but not so fast that you don't have time to adjust it (not like super glue).

Dick,
On the ore cars, if your doing it from scratch I would place the shim under the coupler.
I didn't feel like removing 24 couplers to add the shims to bring it to the exact exact height.
To be honest I just did the one car for Greg's sake







.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

The next Kadee install I am going to do is for my USAT PRR Pa's.
I will probably do it like I did my E-8's here E-8 Kadee install.

Stay tuned.......

Ron


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Ron 
i hear you, its just the pic. looked like you put the spacer under the truck mount but you say the coupler mount.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Dick413 on 13 Jan 2013 08:24 PM 
Ron 
i hear you, its just the pic. looked like you put the spacer under the truck mount but you say the coupler mount. 

Yes in the last pics I did place the shim under the truck mount because I didn't fel like undoing all the couplers and placing the shims under there. But if you are doing from the it from the start I would place it under the coupler.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I picked up a string of seven USAT Autoracks at this years ECLSTS. These are beautiful cars and they are HUGE!

I usually like to use Kadee 907's on all my rolling stock but the Autoracks are just too long to use 907's and still be able to enter the middle lane of my indoor rail yard, 
or be able to use the 9.5' reversing loop on my new Phase of the BRR, so I had to use modded 906's.

I had originally used the 906's unmodded and was able to use the 9.5' reversing loop without a problem, but was unable to handle the "S" curve entering the middle 
lane of my indoor rail yard. I had to trim the corners of them to be able to handle the "S" curve going into the middle lane of the rail yard.

I tried several different ways of mounting the couplers using the different mounting plates that came with the cars but ended up doing it this way.
One nice thing is if you ever decide to sell the cars, it is very easy to return them to stock with only evidence of the mod being two small holes inside the car.

Here are the pics of how I did it.

The materials I used were 2 each 1/16" 841 shims, 1 Kadee 906 coupler, 2 screws from the stock couplers.




The first step is to remove the original coupler. The positioning of the 906 coupler is dependent on the minimum diameter of your curves.
I mounted mine as shown to make my minimums, if you have larger minimums you can move the 906 further back. 
The front hole is 15.5mm from the front lip and the rear hole is 38.5mm from front lip, center is 43mm from the inner edge of the side lip. 
I used a 3/32" drill to drill the holes. 
The easiest and fastest way to do it, without you having to measure exact distances, is to mark your center line then place the mounting screw into the center hole of the 906, 
and butt it up to the inner lip of the channel and then tap the screw head with a small hammer to mark it's location in the channel. 
Then remove the 906 and drill the hole. Then mount the 906 with the single screw, center it on center line, then mark the rear hole through the 906 like before. 






The next step is to trim off the corners of the 906 as shown with a razor saw to allow for greater travel of the coupler arm, and mount the 906 (using the long screws from the original coupler) to the autorack.
(yes I know the aft screw is not the screw from the original couple, it is now though







) 

It is a very easy install and only takes about 15 minutes per car to do. 
Ron

Here are the results; 



This is the stock gap between 2 cars. 


Kadee 906's gap (no load on couplers) 


Kadee 906's gap (with load on couplers) 



The following pictures are of the autoracks entering a parallel siding through an Aristo Wide Radius switch (10ft). 
The cars were able to traverse it going both being pulled and pushed through with the sides touching, this was not possible before notching the corners of the 906's.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron, 

You did a great job installing the Kadee 906s. 

I don't have these cars yet. What's the overall length of them? 
The overhang from the truck pivot mount to the end of the car does present problems on our layouts, even with 10 foot diameter curves and the "S" bends that you encountered. 
Placement of the switch stands for the turnouts looks like it could be an issue to deal with, too.

Much appreciated, 
-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Thanks Ted







.

These are really long cars, 38 1/2" coupler end to coupler end, 
compare that to the USAT Aluminum Streamliner cars which are 34 1/2".

I think the 10ft minimum is really at the limit with these cars and stock couplers.
They were not able to handle my forward reversing loop curve which is about 9.5 ft.
They did make it through the "S" curve at the switch but there was some lifting of the trucks near the couplers.

With the 907's neither was possible, nor the "S" with the unnotched 906's.

Ron


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

A shipment of Kadee 830's and 785's are now in my possession, as are Aristo covered hoppers and stock cars, USAT cabooses and GP38 and GP9, and USAT old stock out of scale el cheapo boxcars (LGB clone-types). There are no mounting pads on any of this rolling stock, so custom installation looks like the only way, with lots of cutting, fabricating, and gnashing of teeth. I need assistance on installing Kadees on all of these train pieces. The Kadee site isn't any help, nor are their instruction sheets. Can someone point me in the direction of someone who has already worked out the bugs and done some of these installations. Perhaps with pictures, too? Thanks. 
Ken S.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ken: I have most of the information you want on my site, look up the specific loco (motive power) or car (rolling stock), but why are you saying the Kadee site is no help? 

What locos and cars are NOT covered on the Kadee site? 

What you list are things I KNOW are covered on their site. 

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but there is a wealth of information on the Kadee site.

Greg


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Hi Greg. The first problem was that the Safari browser wouldn't work on the clickable links. That started things off poorly. But I think I've figured out how to work around that. 
The next problem was that under the "conversions", there isn't a Geep 38 or Geep 9. Or any USAT freight cars either. Or any Aristo freight cars that I have. Sam, at Kadee pointed me to the instructions for my GP9, but they aren't complete enough for me. I don't see how the new coupler box stays attached to the stock arm. Glue, perhaps? Or do I drill and tap? And the coupler would stick out way too far, so the bar needs to be trimmed, I think. But I want to be sure before I start cutting. Then, I figured if I have to do plastic surgery anyway, why not trim away the pilot and do a proper body mount. I'll check out your site. 
Ken S.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, you've provided some great info on installing Kadees on various brands and equipment. Thank you 

I only wish one of the moderators would make this thread a sticky so everyone could easily find it when installing Kadees.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, clearly you had a problem with safari, although my copy of Safari worked fine. (I'm sorry you have a Mac ha ha!) 

The conversions page is here: *http://kadee.com/conv/g1...trong>** right off the main menu "large scale conversions"

This page on the 3rd column has a header: USA TRAINS.... the 6th and 7th loco listed is GP-7 and GP-9 (same loco)

The GP-38 is two lines down...

On the first column of this same page is "ARISTO-CRAFT6 (REA).... about the 20th item in the list is "ROLLING STOCK" ... use #909 or 831 (truck mounted)

Body mounts need you to build up a pad to mount the coupler, the coupler height gauge will show you how much to build up.

Your question on the GP9 I think revolves around the little spring that is included with the #785 kit... it's the little thing right under the coupler mounting screw, only shown from the side... it works, trust me.

http://kadee.com/htmbord...trong> this little clip stays stationary and rides against the rear of the coupler box and tries to keep it aligned, but will allow the coupler box to swivel under pressure.

The picture shows the supplied screw, which is self tapping and goes back in the original hole.

Yes, if you want close coupling you may have to learn a bit more and experiment. What are your curve diameters though? Don't run off an close couple if your curves are under 10' diameter.

Like I said, not hassling you, but there's a lot of information out there already.

And if not, start a thread on your specific loco for yourself... but start by trying what Kadee recommends in the first place. It appears to me that you have not even bought the parts yet.

Greg


Posted By avlisk on 02 May 2013 11:50 AM 
Hi Greg. The first problem was that the Safari browser wouldn't work on the clickable links. That started things off poorly. But I think I've figured out how to work around that. 
The next problem was that under the "conversions", there isn't a Geep 38 or Geep 9. Or any USAT freight cars either. Or any Aristo freight cars that I have. Sam, at Kadee pointed me to the instructions for my GP9, but they aren't complete enough for me. I don't see how the new coupler box stays attached to the stock arm. Glue, perhaps? Or do I drill and tap? And the coupler would stick out way too far, so the bar needs to be trimmed, I think. But I want to be sure before I start cutting. Then, I figured if I have to do plastic surgery anyway, why not trim away the pilot and do a proper body mount. I'll check out your site. 
Ken S.*


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

I was hoping for more than just the recommended coupler. I was hoping for pictures and instructions. On the positive side, I finally figured out that the original coupler arm isn't used at all! Live and learn. Once I figured that out, I was able to install the couplers in the GP9. They ride too high, so I'll have to make a shim and get longer screws, but that will be the easy part. I'll still ask for input from anyone who has put 830s on Aristo hoppers and USAT cabooses. Oh, and I would never spend my hard-earned money on a Windoze computer. We had to use those at work. Safari does work in 10.8.3, but I just have to click on the far right of the link. But that's getting a little OT.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Umm.... do they REALLY ride too high? Did you measure with the Kadee gauge? USAT couplers are normally too low... 

Aristo hopper install, look on my site... USAT cabooses, build up a platform and mount the coupler, or hang loose for a month or so, Ted D. is coming up with a nice install I believe. 

(70 of Ted's "vignettes" with lots of pictures are on my site too). 

Yes, running an OS that only allows you the choice of a single browser is OT for sure... sorry for your predicament ;-) 

Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ken,

As Greg mentioned, I have many "vignettes" (articles) that he hosts for me on his Web site - below link - many of which are dedicated to body mounting Kadee *center set* type couplers - with most locos receiving my custom machined metal coupler boxes that house Kadee couplers. Look in that menu list at below link for what may be of interest to you.

*Ted Doskaris' Vignettes *

With respect to a couple of your specific items, see the following with links:

*Aristo 100 ton hopper*
*
**USAT GP38*(Note that I don't as yet have a USA Trains GP7/9, and GP30, but the described methodology used for the GP38 likely is adapted to these locos. I've, also, done a USAT SD40 but have not written about it yet.) 


I am presently working on the USAT Bay window and Extended vision cabooses - without using any glued-on mounting blocks. I've done one of each in different ways where body mount Kadee centersets are used. 
I have many pictures but need some time to write the "vignette".

-Ted


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