# Clockwise or Counterclockwise?



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

This is directed primarily at those of us who typically run our trains in a loop. For those that might run prototypically or in other ways, when you set the locomotives on the track, do you usually place it on facing left or right? Now you might think this should end up being 50/50, but my experience is that there is a definite preference amongst all the garden railways I have seen. Why? Is it a left-handed, right-handed issue?

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have noticed this, most things seem to run clockwise, but I noticed that I tend to design things counterclockwise, and then started looking at other's layouts and they seem to be mostly counterclockwise. Weird. 

Well, we will see how the poll proves out. 

Regards, Greg


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

I run counterclockwise also... most of the time....

Its kinda how I designed the layout to run...

I answered the poll question incorrectly as I confused myself...

see my layout is indoors and you stand in the middle of it... so to the left is counterclockwise for me...

Philip


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I found that I have a bad habit of going clockwise with my old layout so on the new layout that I am building now it will be all DCC with as many reverse loops as I can fit .......

now my only worrys is the head on's that can happen .....


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Straight line all the way!   

With point to point there is little choice. hehe! There will be no preferred direction once the other terminal with its turntable is completed. Trains will originate on one end, head out and do enroute switching, switch at other end, turn engine for return trip, so there will be equal in each direction. 

The only preference I would have were I still operating a loop would be counter-clockwise if I had a Shay. I would definately want all that cylinder action facing me when the lokie was closest.


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm with you Richard. The IPP&W runs point to point and I am building my own Northland the same way. Locos run equally in both directions.

Regards ... Doug


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Umm..

I run clockwise on the way out and counter clockwise on the way back, my railroad is a figure 8. But, I usually put the trains on the track so that when I am looking at them from the start, they run to the right...under the bridge, then clockwise to the bridge, the counter clockwise back to the start...

I answered counterclockwise, just to be difficult!

Mark


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting you say that about the Shay Richard...I do the same thing so I can see the cylinders most of the time when running my live steam Shay. Originally our loop was designed with live steam in mind, but eventually was also electrified and now I'm DCC but still run the steamers too occasionally. We have been thinking about running in both directions, as Scott mentioned, but have to build some new passing tracks first! We seem to have enough collisions even running in the same direction!! 

Keith


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Two loops. One runs one way, the other the other way. Really 50/50. 

-Brian


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

My track "was" (presently dissassembled for major reparis to the elevated structure) two loopbacks that were supposed (never got around to it) to automatically throw the switch when exiting the loop so upon returning to it the train would go the other way, so the direction through the loopbacks would be 50/50 clockwise/counter-clockwise. 

But, as built, with slip switches, no matter how I put the engine on the track it always eventually became a counter-clockwise operation in both loopbacks.

Also, due to the design of the steam up siding it was better to make it face to the right so the cars could be put on the parallel straight mainline; then, upon leaving the siding in the forward direction to the main and then backing up on the main, coupling to the train would be on straight track (a more ideal situation than coupling on the curve).

In the diagram below, the straightaway is about 50 ft and the loopbacks are about 17-ft diameter (and thus about 53-ft of track), making about 156 ft of running track. I want to "FILL" the center of the loopback nearest the house with a turntable and 3/4 Roundhouse.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles,

How did it always end up as ccw running? That's exactly the layout I used for my Lionel train when I was just out of college. The switch would line itself as the loco entered, from either the divergent or the straight section when running through as a trailing point switch. Next time around, the direction was reversed because the switch had been thrown previously. 

It was a fun kind of a layout to operate because the trains would run around the loops both directions!

Mark


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

counter clockwise, my live steamers are easier to service facing to the right. 

Harvey C.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 10/23/2008 2:39 PM
Charles,

How did it always end up as ccw running? That's exactly the layout I used for my Lionel train when I was just out of college. The switch would line itself as the loco entered, from either the divergent or the straight section when running through as a trailing point switch. Next time around, the direction was reversed because the switch had been thrown previously. 

It was a fun kind of a layout to operate because the trains would run around the loops both directions!

Mark



Lionel switches automatically switched to whichever route the train approached from and stayed in that configuration until the train approached from the other route. That is what I wanted to make my switches do but never got around to setting it up (got the motors, sensors/magnets and wire, but no power available yet). Mine are always set for the straight route but if the train approaches from the diverging route the points just slide over far enough to let the flanges through and then slide back, remaining set for the straight route. A dangerous situation in that if the train has started through the switch from the diverging route, the train cannot move backward until ALL the train is through the switch.


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## OzarkRR (Jan 2, 2008)

When I built my layout I created one leg of my figure 8 with a steeper incline than the other leg so it just happened that when I run my trains so they will go down the steep incline and up the gradual one they are running clockwise.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

We tend to run the "main loop" with the leap frog counterclockwise. The primary reason is based on the directions of the turnouts (leading point vs trailing point), the chances for one fouling seem smaller pulling the heavyweights in this direction (i.e., fewer derailments at the turnouts). It also gives us more options as to how the trains leave the leap frog (i.e., on the same track taking the same path, or on different tracks that take different paths). Clockwise, they must both take the same (only available) path.

Interesting that the "trestle loop" appear to run clockwise when these trains receive the same voltage as those running counterclockwise on the "main loop." This is because the trestle loop is actualy an over-under figure 8 and for most of the viewing you see the leg that heads the "other direction."

We tend to run the "service loop" (where trains slow and stop for diesel/coal/water) in a counterclockwise manner when running diesels but clockwise when running steam because of the way the reed switches are laid out by the various facilities.

Ultimately, we run 7 trains (four on loops and three P-T-P) with 23 blocks each accessable by any of three controllers. Also, the railroad incorporates a wye so any train or combination of trains can run either direction and be turned without an act of God. Furthermore, any train can be operated P-T-P between any two facing sidings on the railroad because all sidings are diode protected and each of the three controllers has its own reversing circuit built into the control panel. In this way we don't need to "double gap" our rails to run P-T-P.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

And...sort of related...

How smart is Your Right Foot?

Just try this. It is from an orthopedic surgeon............

This will boggle your mind and you will keep trying over and over again to see if you can outsmart your
foot, but...you can't. It's programmed in your brain!

1. While sitting where you are at your desk in front of your computer, lift your right foot off the floor and make clockwise circles.

2. Now, while doing this, draw the number '6' in the air with your right Hand. Your foot will change direction.

I told you so!!! 

And there's nothing you can do about it! You and I both know how stupid it is, but before the day is done you are going to try it again....if you've not already done so.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bruce Chandler on 10/23/2008 8:31 PM
And...sort of related...

How smart is Your Right Foot?

Just try this. It is from an orthopedic surgeon............

This will boggle your mind and you will keep trying over and over again to see if you can outsmart your
foot, but...you can't. It's programmed in your brain!

1. While sitting where you are at your desk in front of your computer, lift your right foot off the floor and make clockwise circles.

2. Now, while doing this, draw the number '6' in the air with your right Hand. Your foot will change direction.

I told you so!!! 

And there's nothing you can do about it! You and I both know how stupid it is, but before the day is done you are going to try it again....if you've not already done so. 


WELL... Not quite!

I tried so hard at keeping my foot going clockwise, I drew the number 9.


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## MikeK (Jan 3, 2008)

Outside loop--usually counterclockwise.
Inside loop--usually clockwise.


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## sheepdog (Jan 2, 2008)

Counterclockwise. Because of drowned man curve. Too fast around that turn and you have a very wet loco. I'll run clockwise but the grandkids don't get to. 

Craig


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruce,

How am I going to get anything done today?! 

Mark


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I have to say I'm really surprised to see how close it is turning out to be. A corollary question might be, "which way do your locos face on your storage shelves?" In my experience by far the majority of people in our local club run clockwise.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I can agree with the terms of clockwise and counter-clockwise...but not your further "clarifications"; e.g. Clockwise (to the left when you set it on the tracks) - it really depends on whether you are inside, or outside of your loop...if you have one. 

For operations, I start in my yard, on a locomotive track and then proceed to the turntable to get my loco in the proper direction. 

If I'm just running trains it depends on a lot of variables. If I'm running a Shay AND I've got an audience, I'll face the "interesting" side towards the audience. But, no matter which way I start, someone will ask if I can run it in the other direction.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

just becouse of this thread I turned the train at the store around so it will run counter clockwise for a while .....

if you set a clock on the floor face up that is how I deside which way it is going ......


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Trains West on 10/24/2008 8:45 PM
just becouse of this thread I turned the train at the store around so it will run counter clockwise for a while .....

if you set a clock on the floor face up that is how I deside which way it is going ......




Uh... so I just did a screen capture of my computer's clock display...


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

You're right Bruce...and maybe the essence of what I'm asking goes right back to when you pull the engine off the shelf...do you feel more comfortable with the front in your left hand or right? Does it somehow feel more natural to set it on the track that same way regardless of the direction it ends up travelling? I'm sure of one thing, though, that clock makes my brain hurt! 

Keith


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I've been trying for the past day, and I've only managed to do it once! 

You're EVIL, Bruce! EVIL, EVIL, EVIL!!!









Oh, I've got a double reverse loop, so I can't answer. 

Later, 

K


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 10/24/2008 10:36 PM

Oh, I've got a double reverse loop, so I can't answer. 

Later, 

K 

Yeah, but what about through the loops themselves?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Unfortunately I voted clockwise as this is how I run my outdoor layout, butI have 2 figure eights where the train really runs in both directions. 
I do place them on the track to start up running to my left. 

Indoors I run counter clockwise and i place the stock on the track to run to my right, so the poll really should have 3 choices, the third being both of the above.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

...Yeah, but what about through the loops themselves? 


Both ways. The switches have "rubber" throws, so the train alternates direction each time through the loop. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Vocks (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess I am a creature of habit, but I usually run the outside loop counter clock-wise, and the inside loop clock-wise, partly because it's easier to get the loco out of the case that direction, and I just leave the cars on the track with the observation car to the left. Plus I like to watch the train come out of the tunnel, rather than disappear into it. 
But if I run only one train, I run it CCW, because that is the "main" loop.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Third party vote here, *Irrelelvant* 

My trains run north (counter) or south (clock) depending on their destination. Northbound trains are heading to the mines in the hills, Southbound trains are heading to the Heckawee junction. Passenger trains run both ways depending on which mining shift they are picking up or dropping off.


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

[No message]


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

I set the locomotive on the track with the pressure gauge facing me. Some are left and some are right and one gauge is in the center. So, clockwise or anti clockwise results from locomotive placement. In the case of my Shay, gears are always toward the spectators.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

CCW, cause that's the way the terrain worked out. That way I have less steep grades on the ascending side of the hill, but Katy bar the door going down through the center of town!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I do either or and also have two reverse loops so I can very the trains anytime or keep it clock wise or counter clock wise. Later RJD


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Outside loop counterclockwise. Inside loop clockwise.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2009)

I run both directions at the same time on my two concentric ovals both outside and on my indoor layout. I like to watch the trains meet and pass. I will say that on the garden layout, I tend to run counter clockwise on my inner oval and clockwise on the outer oval because the trains come out of a canyon turn and look pretty cool when running in that direction.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2009)

oops


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Semper, snap over spring switches aren't hard to make and then backing up wouldn't be a risk. They are a one piece machine! They can be mounted outside the track, but I just paint them with a marker.
I made a re-fresher one in brass, (to remind myself how) but found spring wire at Ace. 

One lenght of wire , 2 90 degree bends on the ends, same plane, say 3/16ths. 90 degrees to the ends bend middle of wire 20 -30 degrees. Drill 2 holes in the ties parallel to straight rail while holding the points half way. You want the holes slightly closer than the ends so it is inserted under compression. Nudge to one side and it should snap over and vice versa.

I run both ways oa a single loop.


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## McGinty26 (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a double loop, inside clockwise, outside counterclockwise.

Pat McCarty, CEO

Roisin & Owen Railways

Proud member of The Hudson Valley Large Scale Railroad Club

and

The Westchester Garden Railway Society


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess about two thirds of my indoor layout is normally viewed clockwise. If it's set up to show of in that way then the Grande Prairie area is counterclockwise. Outside? My little garden loop is counterclockwise due to the one o'clock to four o'clock being pretty curvy and harder to climb.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

yes... !!!

In NA the vortex in the tub is...............................


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I go both ways like Brian, Outer loop counter clockwise, inner loop clockwise. They are each 300+ ft so I really don't think of them in clockwise terms. 
Paul


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## hap (Jan 3, 2008)

mine is counter- clockwise because of way track is laid.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I tend to run CCW beuase all my switches to turn the locos on are on the right hand side. Plus as stated above, the shays cylinders and gears are on the right.


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## coyote97 (Apr 5, 2009)

oh.....i have a problem:


im running a line. standing on my terrace, they move the one direction, standing on the vis-a-vis grass, they move to the other....
in my middle station the trains have to switch direction.
so a train driving A-B moves to the right, chaning to a "left"-move when it heads back to go B-C.
and for more: my middle station has a loop right in front of the station. so when a "terrace-right-mover" goes into the middel station, i have to change place, making the train to a "grass-left-mover". Going through the loop it becomes a "station right"-mover. After switching it goes from a station-leftmover through the loop to a grass-right-mover (what is a terrace-left-mover for a terrace-beholder).




Before going further, i think it will be a good idea to shut up for me....PERHAPS it was a thread not really meant for me...*grin.


But ONE miracle is really existing: why are shays always wrongsided?






regards


Frank


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Run the shays in a circle and it will be on the right side half the time...

gg


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