# Question about old REA Alco FA-7 units



## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Hi,


I have two old B&O REA FA-7's and I am looking at a B unit on ebay to complete my set. Only question I have is about running one of the FA's in reverse. Is there a switch hidden somewhere on these FA's where I can hook them up back to back but still run in the forward direction? Did that explanation make sense? Here is a picture of the setup I want to run just incase my description didn't make sense.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are running in DC, then when you put the loco on the track backwards, it will run in reverse, as you want. 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Nothing special needed, just turn one unit backwards, the track polarity determines direction. 

John


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Just for the record, they are FA-1 units.. 
there is no such thing as a FA-7. 
(might make searching for them easier..) 

they are often called simply "Alco FA" units for short. 
and the B unit is an Alco FB, or FB-1. 

Scot


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Ok so if I put my two FA's and attach them back to back, they will both run in the same direction? Last time I did this they pulled against each other so I had to run them both with the headlights pointing forward.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks Scotty. That would help with searching for info on these units. I don't know why I call them F 7's but I've been calling them that since I was a kid. A few B&O FA-1's would roll past my house and I heard my Grandfather call them F 7's and so ever since then I've called them that. Too bad he isn't around for me to give him some jazz about it. 

Thanks for the correction.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Just so we are clear, here is a youtube video I found of the setup I am hoping to run if I can win the B unit on ebay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvPNg-0hAeA 

However, these Aristocrafts in the video look much newer and more sofistocated than mine. They have sound and looks like more intesne lighting. Again, the last time I tried running my FA's back to back, they pulled against each other, thats why I thought maybe there was another switch hidden somewhere that could reverse the polarity of one units to make them both run in the same direction. 

Thanks for the help guys. This forum is great.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

If I am right, Grandpaw was right as I don't believe the B&O ever had any FA or FBs. 

For sure, they never had any PAs. 

I do believe they had EMD Fs and Es.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

If your units pulled against each other before, they will continue to do so, unless you find a switch to throw. As stock units they should act as we said, so they must not be stock.... at least one was altered for some reason.... 

John


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By navihawk on 10 Jun 2012 12:42 PM 
Thanks Scotty. That would help with searching for info on these units. I don't know why I call them F 7's but I've been calling them that since I was a kid. A few B&O FA-1's would roll past my house and I heard my Grandfather call them F 7's and so ever since then I've called them that. Too bad he isn't around for me to give him some jazz about it. 

Thanks for the correction. 




Actually, your grandfather was probably right!
(unless he called *all* cab units F7's..in which case he was not right! 
you probably did see B&O F7's with your Grandfather..and FA's as well. 


Yes, there is such a locomotive as a F7..but it is made by EMD.
You dont have a model of an EMD F7, you have a model of an Alco FA.
completely different locomotives.

yes, they look somewhat similar, but they are not the same..
both are "cab units"..which is a generic term that essentially means a locomotive with a covered carbody, and a wide cab on (usually) one end..
there are dozens of different models of cab units, made by several manufacturers.

An analogy would be the Ford Mustang Vs. the Chevy Camaro..
they are a similar "style" of car, but are not at all the same car..
both are "pony cars"..long hood, 2 doors, short tail..but they are made by different manufacturers,
and while they might be the same type, or style, of car, they are definitely not the same model.. 

Same thing with the EMD F7 Vs. the Alco FA..both are "freight cab units"..but made by different manufacturers,
and are really quite different. 


B&O did have both, plus several other models of cab units..

EMD F7









Alco FA









Scot


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been thinking about your problem, when back to back they seem pull in opposite directions and when front to back things seem to work. It can't be a polarity switch, because it would always go in the opposite direction. Have you tried putting them on the track and not coupling them? See if then they move in opposite directions, or one sits there and doesn't move. It is possible that rather than pulling against each other one was trying to pull a dead one?


Try them pointing in the forward direction, uncoupled, and apply power. What happens? Reverse the polarity and see what happens. My guess is that there is a bind in one unit when it is trying to go backward.


Did you buy these units new or separately used from different vendors? 

Chuck


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Could it be as easy as flipping the wires to the motor(s)?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary:

I don't think that would help because it seems to run in only one direction, forward. If polarity is a problem then it should run in the opposite direction all the time. If it is in the wiring there must be something to make it go forward all the time. Regardless of the polarity to the track. If that is the case someone has added a new circuit to the engine.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Who says every Aristo loco was wired right from the factory? 

Also, maybe they are NOT unmodified, many times people are sold something as new and it has been messed with. 

Determine what DC standard you want (polarity vs. direction) and swap the trucks or the wires so they both run the same. 

Greg


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

That was a great analogy. I am a newbie with identifying trains but my grandfather and dad were RR enthusiats. I am much better at identifyiong airplanes. As a kid my brother and I went around with my dad getting pictures of trains. We went all over the WV, MD, PA and Ohio countryside chasing trains for pictures. If I remember correctly, Grafton, WV to Cumberland, MD is reffered to as the West End. Tons of pictures and lots of memories. The pictures were eventually used in a book that my dad wrote about the history of trains in our region. Its called An American Railroad Portrait if anyone is interested.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I dont think one is dead because when they are uncoupled and apart from each other they both run if FWD and Reverse just fine. Even when I turn them to point the other way they still both run fine.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Both unit were purchased brand new at the same time from a Hobby shop in my hometown back in 1991 or 92.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I remember reading where some one had to switch the front truck with thr rear to make theirs run currect.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

OK. One is not dead. When they are uncoupled do they run in the same direction or opposite directions? You just said that they run, not which way. Try all combinations, headlights pointing in the same direction and in opposite directions. Change the polarity in each combination. Can you get a third engine and try the same tests with one or both of your FAs on the track at the same time? They should all run in the same direction. If one of your FAs goes in the opposite direction, that is the one with the problem (this assumes that the third engine is not wired for NMRA standards). 

Is it only when they are coupled that you have the problem? 

What happens when you couple them together with the cabs pointing to each other? 

I still don't understand why when the cabs are facing the same direction, everything is OK, and when they are facing opposite directions it isn't OK. That is not a simple polarity or wiring problem.

I run A-B-As in the correct formation all the time. Because it is DC they are supposed to all go in the same direction all the time, regardless of which way the engine is pointing. This is something different. 

Chuck


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Chuck, 

Uncoupled or coupled doesn't matter. If I point them with the headlights pointing in the same direction, they run fine. However, if I point them back to back, they both go in opposite directions. If they are coupled while back to back they try and pull each other. I am suprised that the couples held on with all of that tensile stress.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

The switches are in the rear door. Jack


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## Chris_Haon (Dec 28, 2011)

Have you checked to see if there are switches on the door in the rear of the engine. There should be 3 switches. One for smoke, lights and something else. When I rewired my FA's I gutted all the switches and wiring and started over


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Which ever one doesn't travel in the same direction on the track, (with polarity unchanged) no matter which way it points is the 'bad' one. 
I don't know much about dismals, but the two trucks under the tender of my Aristo 2-8-0 were wired backwards to each other from the factory, so anything is possible. 
John


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Another small problem U may run into when U get the "B" unit is the paint job will be different from Ur A units 
if its a later production piece... The early REA units did not have the flat black roofs like the B&O prototypes did,
but the later production ones did, so U may have a little paint work in the offing... I had to do that with my REA 
B&O ABA set...
Paul R...


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The only time I see an engine not change direction on analog power when turned around is when there is a decoder installed. 
Is it possible that a decoder has been added to this/these engines? 
Sure, Bachmann has a switch for NMRA vs G standards, but this is Aristocraft engine/s.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Navihawk:

Thanks for the clarification. It has got to be a wiring issue and since I don't have one I can't be of much further help.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Just to put closure to this thread. I took apart the loco and found someone had definatley wried up a capacitor in what looked to be used to help the train if it ran over a deadspot. But they had it all messed up and did a terrible job at it. I unsoldered everything and put it back together according to my other FA unit. It runs fine now. We bought these brand new from a hobby store a long time ago so the owner must have had them on display or modified them to do soemthing other than original.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I can't tell you how many "brand new" locos my friends and I have bought only to find that they have definitely been modified. 

Sometimes it's the dealer, but more often it's something like a customer bought it, messed with it, returned it to the dealer saying he did not touch it. Dealers don't always have the time and/or expertise to determine if this has happened. 

Glad you got it solved! 

Greg


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