# New 1/20th scale projects



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Because I don't already have enough projects going on, you know...
I started on the tender for the radio control Bachmann 0-4-0 side tank engine, it will be a 15 foot long 2 axle tender. I also started on the Quincy and Torch Lake rock cars that I've been wanting to build for years now. The tender is freelance, but the frame loosely based on the Billmeyer & Small flat car that they built for the D&RG in the 1870s. 

The rock car is based partly on the article and plans from the May 1987 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, and with my own measurements and pictures of the existing cars at the Quincy Mine hoist site, about 150 miles from where I live. There's still several cars there, but they're mostly in very poor condition. I don't think there's been any effort to preserve any of them, it's a shame really.



I haven't glued the 2 frame members into the tender frame yet, the pedestals go on these beams, and their spacing depends on the length of the axles of the wheel sets. I have the parts, I just need to attach the pedestals to the frame pieces so that I can get the spacing correct.


I was going to build 2 of the rock car frames to start with, but I discovered that I didn't have enough wood for the second frame. That will have to wait until the next trip to the hobby shop. I would like to build 5 of these cars, they're actually fairly simple construction, and they're an all wood car except for the hardware. I don't know if I want to tackle the "Z" braced rock cars or not. Hartford Products used to have a kit for those, back in the days before he sold the business.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I was looking for a picture on the internet of these cars, it might be easier to scan one of my photos and upload that.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

The rock car is based partly on the article and plans from the May 1987 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, and with my own measurements and pictures of the existing cars at the Quincy Mine hoist site, about 150 miles from where I live. There's still several cars there, but they're mostly in very poor condition. I don't think there's been any effort to preserve any of them, it's a shame really. 


Amber, why don't you put together a proposal for the QMH Association to let you restore one of the real cars. It would be a LOT of work, but I would bet dollars to donuts that you would get some volunteers for the project when they found out you were serious. Since I am in Northern VA, it is a bit of a commute for me to volunteer.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I think the condition of the wood on the existing cars is mostly so bad that about the only thing usable on them would be the trucks and the hardware. Still, it is a good idea! I'd like to see some preservation efforts toward the remains of the one or two cars that are still mostly intact. I'm not sure what would be involved with that. 
Somebody recently rebuilt one of the 3 or 4 side tip cars that the Quincy had at the end of operations. They were sitting on the loading track of the shaft house. They used treated wood and all the original hardware to rebuild the car. It's on display in the loading area of the shaft house. It looks like a long version of the Fairbanks Morse side dump cars that Bachmann makes.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The rock car is based partly on the article and plans from the May 1987 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman, and with my own measurements and pictures of the existing cars at the Quincy Mine hoist site 
You mean like these? Photos by Ted Ellis: http://algomacentral.railfan.net/old_qtl.htm.












The reason I am interested is that the EBT had a similar design - bought from one of the ore mining railroads in Michigan!












Finally, I assume you are aware that Hartford used to make a craftsman kit of these cars? 











Hartford still makes the kit of metal parts, without the wood. Full wood-cutting instructions are included, I'm told. (I have a couple of the kits and I will be putting them together next winter.) http://shop.hartfordproducts.com/pr...egoryId=64 Kit SK09. 



And finally, Kevin tells me the old Delton 1/24th scale ore hoppers are actually almost perfect as 1/20th EBT hoppers. 











And here's a pic of my Aristo/Delton hopper - just painted black and numbered: 










_P.S. I noted you on the other thread were interested in the outside planked ore cars. Next to it is my EBT-rebuilt Hancock & Calumet ore car, bought after the outside braced ore cars! See "The one that almost got scrapped" __[url]http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/8/aft/124409/afv/topic/Default.aspx_[/url]_ I have the plans if you'd like a scan._


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Wonderful pictures! Those are the Z braced ore cars that they had, the ones I'm making are the straight braced rock cars. Here's a picture I found on line. 

 

They had a fair amount of these that they bought used from other local railroads such as the Calumet and Hecla when they standard gauged their railroad. There's actually more of these still in existence than there is of the Z braced cars.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

the ones I'm making are the straight braced rock cars 
Amber, 

Those are the ones that EBT rebuilt into steel-lined hoppers. My plans show them in four stages - as bought (low side, like your photo) all the way up to the final iteration. 

The Bachmann 'wooden hopper car' #98514 is very similar but 1:22.5:


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I was working on the tender model a bit today, and I decided to use a different set of pedestals for it. I have them, but I was saving them for another project. These are sprung pedestals from Hartford Products. I think they'll look better than the smaller logging disconnect pedestals that I was going to use. I have an old set of JB Product wheelsets for them. They're 24-26 scale inch wheels. 
I have some older Sierra Valley 20 inch wheel sets that I wanted to narrow the gauge on to O gauge for 2 foot gauge. I can't do that because the axles have a shoulder that the insulator sits up against to set the gauge. I discovered that the old JB wheelsets have axles that are not shouldered, and the insulators for the wheels are close enough to the same size outer diameter to be swappable with the Sierra valley wheels. if I swap the insulators between the wheelsets, I can change the axles also. That way I can slide the 20 inch wheels in on the axles to O gauge. I have 2 pairs of the Bachmann short wheelbase trucks that use the smaller diameter wheels, I got them without wheels from flea bay. You can't put the bigger wheels on these trucks, they won't fit. The Sierra Valley 20 inch wheels fit nicely on these trucks, and if I can regauge the wheelsets, I can use them for 2 foot gauge trucks. I'm still working on swapping the axles. 
Solving 2 problems at one time.


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Can't wait to see the finished project


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I got all the wheel sets swapped and gauged as best as I can. The 20 scale inch wheels work well in the Bachmann short wheel base trucks. One of the things that I like about those trucks is that they have the extended arch bars. I could hang a set of brake beams on them by drilling a hole where the cast on bolt is, and then putting the brake beam hangers on them. I wouldn't mind narrowing these trucks but the axles are shouldered, and if I shortened the axles, they wouldn't fit in the axle holes on the sideframes. I don't think I could drill the holes out big enough without messing up the sideframes. They'll work fine the way they are, they'll just look weird from the ends of the car with the wheels so far in on the axles. 
Hopefully, this weekend I'll get the pedestals mounted on the tender frame. Then I can start on the deck. I think I'm going to put a seperate water tank and coal bin on the tender, like it was built in the railroad shop. The water tank will be where the battery will be hidden.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Well, I'm stuck again, as usual. I haven't been able to decide on what the wheelbase should be on the tender. The tender frame is 15 scale feet long, and I was trying to decide if the pedestals should be 4 feet in from the ends with 7 feet between them, or 3 feet in from the ends with 9 feet in between them. Anybody have a suggestion? I'm guessing that the wheelbase will affect the tracking ability. It's always "interesting" when you don't have plans to work from. Freelance comes with a lot of decisions to make.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I've made a bit of progress on these projects, but no pictures yet. I finally got more wood for the rock car frames so that I can build several of them at the same time. Also, I made a bit of progress on the tender for the 0-4-0.


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## on30gn15 (May 23, 2009)

One thing on truck placement on tender is how far the end would swing relative to the cab on curves, the further in the trucks the more the swing.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I'm not using trucks on the tender, just pedestals. It will be a 2 axle tender. Of course, pedestal placement will affect end swing in a similar way.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Here's a few pictures of the progress on the tender, so far. 
I'm using Hartford Products sprung pedestal assemblies for this car. 

 

 

 

 

I think I'm going to paint it black to match the engine. Now I have to figure out how to build the water tank and coal bunker so that they hide the batteries for the engine. I was thinking about using 12 volt slide on batteries from my Black and Decker drill, I have a charger and everything already.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Amber - check out the *MasterClasses* here if you haven't already. David Fletcher's series on building several (sparkie) locomotives from scratch. Good stuff on how to build tender tanks (and just about everything else). The first MasterClass on building a Mogul has all kinds of info you may be able to use in building your tender tank.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

A little progress.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

i need to add the link and pin coupler pockets to the end beams of the tender frame, and I also need to add a single beam across the center of the underside of the frame for the truss rod pads. Then I need to figure out a good location for the brake cylinder and air tank. The car will have brake beams hung from the body on the outside of the wheels. I have the needed parts except for the brake cylinder and air tank. 
I also need to build an assembly jig for building the frames for the rock cars. I have the wood cut for 3 more frames and I know it would be easier to glue them together square with the help of a jig. I'm thinking a plexiglass base with the various stops glued to that to set the wood frame pieces into.


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## wlburge (Jan 2, 2012)

Neat little frame. What did you use for paint? Or did you use india ink? Good progress.

Bill


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks Bill! 
I used a can of regular flat black spray paint from the hardware store. Somehow, it's still a bit on the shiny side. Not quite as flat as I wanted, but it will do for now. 
I generally use red primer spray paint for painting my cars, but I wanted this to be black to match the engine.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Since my other projects need stuff that I don't have at the moment, I did some more work on the Quincy and Torch Lake straight braced rock cars. I figured that if I wanted to build more than 1 car, I should build an assembly jig, so I took a scrap piece of smoked plexiglass and, using it as the base, I glued pieces of plastic square tubing onto it with superglue. I laid out the frame part locations and glued the plastic pieces on the plexiglass to hold everything in alignment while the glue is drying. Then I made 3 more frames with the jig, that was all the basswood that I had in the proper thickness for the frames. I need to take another trip to the hobby shop for more wood for the rest of the car parts. I also need to look into getting the castings for the cars. I don't think I'll find a copy of the stake pockets that are proper for these cars, they have a distinct shape.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Here's a picture of the stake pocket s on the straight braced rock cars. The Q&TL flat cars also had these same stake pockets, at least 1 of them did for sure. I measured what was left of that car behind the roundhouse about 10-12 years ago, and it had the same stake pockets.


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Amber, 
Looks like the same basic method I used on the Oak Flat car post (Aug 16th) would work for these IF the pocket size would scale out close enough to the size of square brass tubing. Would glued on pockets be strong enough for your car? 
Larry


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Glued on pockets would work, but it wouldn't be much trouble to add the brass wire for the U bolt detail, and glue that into 2 holes drilled next to the pocket. That should help to hold the pockets on also.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Decisions, decisions! I want to work on the sides for these cars, but I don't have the wood in the correct thickness. The side boards are 3 inches thick on the existing cars at the Quincy mine hoist site. I have sheet basswood in 2 scale inch thickness and 4 scale inch thickness. (approximately) I know it's going to bea while before I can get to the hobby shop for more wood, so unless I use one of those sizes, I'm stuck for progress on this project. I'm leaning toward using the 2 scale inch thick sheet wood. That would look better than the thicker stuff. I don't have detail parts, but they usually go on last anyway. I also need to start working on the wood cab for my steam engine project. I'll use what I have for that.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I haven't gotten anything done on the Q&TL rock cars inquite a while, but I did manage to get some work done on the tender for my Bachmann 0-4-0 side tank engine. I wanted a small tender to use as a battery car for the R/C system. I had gotten to the point of having the flatcar part of it built but not detailed, but I couldn't decide on what kind of tank to put on it or how to build the tank. It's been sitting for a year or so while other things were going on. 
A few weeks back, a couple things happened that got me going on this again, I bought 3 sets of Delton tender trucks from ebay, and I bought cheap battery engine tender. I'll use the tender tank on the wood tender flatcar that I had built. I have to do some modifying on the tender tank to get what I want, but it will work. The other thing I did was to pull the pedestals off the flatcar and put wood bolsters on it for one of those sets of tender trucks. The other 2 sets will be going under the Bachman tenders of the two 2-6-0 engine projects that are sitting on one of my shelves. To me, they look a lot better than the standard Bachmann freight trucks under the tenders. 
Here's the tender flatcar the way it was with the pedestals. 

 

Here's a picture of the tender with the new bolsters. I still need to paint them. 

 

Hopefully, I'll get started on modifying the tank to fit on the flatcar soon.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

bea while before I can get to the hobby shop for more wood 
Amber, 
I have a mini table saw from Micromark, and I have found it really useful. I cut strips of wood whatever sizes I want, cut plywood to size (it handles up to 1/4") and I even do long cuts on thin brass and aluminum. My wooden EBT hopper has all scale wood cut on the saw.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I've cut some wood on my table saw with a 7-1/4 inch 60 tooth blade, for frames and things like that, but even with a zero clearance plate, the saw is just too big to cut small strip wood. I'd like to have one of those little saws for cutting stuff, but it's a bit beyond my means right now. 
I tried using my inexpensive 3 wheel bandsaw for cutting stripwood, but the blade tends to wander just enough to make the strips wavy.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Posted By Amber on 24 Oct 2013 11:39 PM 
I've cut some wood on my table saw with a 7-1/4 inch 60 tooth blade, for frames and things like that, but even with a zero clearance plate, the saw is just too big to cut small strip wood. 
Hey Amber, Perhaps you just need to work on your set up a bit. I have an ancient 10" craftsman table saw and I was able to get some good results from it. Have a look at Bobs post on setting up the table saw. 

Cutting Scale Lumber on a Table Saw

I made a feather board to hold things from the top and one to hold things against the rip fence as well as a zero clearance plate and it worked well. I did produce some garbage but the I figured out that my rip fence was causing that by not always being square when I clamp it. Now I check it with a carpenters square before tightening it down. Projects are looking good. Can't wait to see more.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Lots of really good information on that link! I need to try his technique for the bandsaw on mine.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Here's an idea of what I'm trying to do for the tender car. This is the tender tank shell that I'm using for the project. I'll need to make a top for it that can be removed to get at a battery pack. Lots of details to add also. I'm going to put a single beam across the underframe between the trucks to run a set of truss rods over with truss rod pads. I don't think I have any short enough queenposts, but I do have some truss rod pads in my parts box. Then I'll have to paint the bare wood. I need to order a set of tender tank straps and tender water valves for it, and a brake wheel, of course. A set of tender steps would be nice also.


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