# Coal-Fired Vertical Boiler Locomotive



## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

Hello fellow live steamers! This new topic is about the construction/build of a Gauge 1 or 1:20.3 Scale coal-fired vertical boiler locomotive that I'll be starting as my second step into live steam. As my first step to live steam, I built two alcohol/sterno fired boilers, one horizontal and one vertical (picture of them will be posted below). After an extraordinary success with these two boilers I decided to try my hand at coal firing. I have a good design of a coal-fired boiler that I may use, but I'm open to any suggestions for a boiler design. Note, the boiler is a "dry back" boiler, meaning no water will surround the firebox. The boiler design shows a 2 5/8" dia copper tube as the boiler and firebox shell with 16 or 14 gauge copper sheet flanged to fit the I.D. of the copper tube. There will be a single flue running up the center of the boiler. The frame will be 16 gauge mild steel sheet about 8-10" long and 3.5" wide. Finally the engine will be a double-acting oscillator partially of my own design. I'll post some drawings soon of my designs.

Prototype- None, Freelanced.

What I've got so far-

-Two 1/4 - 40 Globe Valves (one blower, one regulator)
-One 3/8 - 32 Water gauge with blow down valve
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What I have on order-

2 x Boiler Bushing 1/4-402 x Boiler Bushing 5/16-27 (1/16 NPT)2 x Boiler Bushing 1/4-40 MTP1 x Pressure Safety Valve1 x Gauge 0-100 PSI1 x Boiler Feed Pump Kit - Unmachined 
The combine total of this order is *$66.86*

*This above is from Liney Machine *- Website ->* http://www.lineymachine.com*

Note, the boiler feed pump kit is for hydrostatic testing the boiler and not as a water hand pump on the locomotive (It wont fit on the locomotive)

One final thing Ill try to keep track of all the money invested on this project so I can show you guys how much the project is so anyone maybe willing to build this locomotive in the future can see how much money they will need to invest to build a coal fired vertical boiler locomotive in Gauge 1 or 1:20.3 scale.

-Dylan


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Sounds like an interesting project! I look forward to seeing your progresss.


My son and I did a "similar" project last winter. we purchased Graham industry engines, built a vertical boiler (each) and built ourselves a pair of vertical boilered logging engines here is the thread  also see our writeup in Steam In the Garden


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

Phippsburg Eric, thanks for the comment! I look forward to seeing my progress too. 

I saw your thread a while back and I thought it was really cool.

-Dylan


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

I made a mistake last time with the order total. It should be *$62.30*.


-Dylan


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## ScottB (Jan 8, 2010)

Dylan, 

I will be watching this thread with great interest. I am also in the process of designing a logging style locomotive in a approx 1:20 scale. My inspiration for my design is based off the Nina locomotive ( with many changes to suit my particular taste) the live steam engine will be loosely based on the Nina designed engine with a few of my own designs incorporated into it. I am in process of drawing all this up in my cad program and when I start the build I will be sure to post my build on this forum. This engine will be fueled with pressurized gas but my next loco will be coal fired. 

Scott


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

Scott,


Thanks for the comment! Once your done with your cad drawings and you start the build I'll be watching yours because it sounds very interesting.

-Dylan


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

Here is a picture I took of what I have so far

-*This is the water gauge, regulator and blower valves. *


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

*UPDATE:*

Hello I'm back! Its been a while since my last post. Sadly nothing has been done to the locomotive mostly because of school and sports. I do come bringing good news though, I have recently acquired a R8 Milling Machine from Micro Mark. Hopefully in the next couple of weeks I'll have some parts drawn up and ready to be machined and I'll post this soon. Also I have gotten those parts that I listed before and I'll have some pictures of them soon.

-Dylan


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## RickWeber (Mar 7, 2011)

Coal fired vertical boiler with water leg I built and am taking to Diamondhead next month. This critter steams up a storm with just the single flue. Just my opinion, but I'd encourage you to build a water leg boiler. Not much more difficult, and it will make a difference in steam production. Also make a bung and form your own end pieces.









Shown here is the firebox and center flue for my vertical boiler.


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## RickWeber (Mar 7, 2011)

PS -- Be sure to include a blower in your design. Your tiny little coal fire will go cold very fast without one to keep the draft up when the engine is not running and the start-up blower fan is not attached. Engine exhaust up the stack, of course.


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## RickWeber (Mar 7, 2011)

Inside the firebox.


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## RickWeber (Mar 7, 2011)

A bung for forming end plates. Through the years, I've made up a bung set for just about every stock size of copper tube. Just a reminder - don't tap on the copper when the bung is in the lathe - bad for bearings. The lathe is used only for trimming up the end plate to fit into a tube. Be patient; you will need to anneal about 4 to 5 times between tapping. When the copper work hardens, then anneal it and start again. Lightly tap, tap, tap… ad nauseum.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Did you need to use any stay bolts in the water leg section, to hold it together against the pressure?


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## RickWeber (Mar 7, 2011)

Nope. No stays needed. Thats the nice thing about a cylindrical fire box. I thought about a few stays between the top of the firebox and top plate, but after a 110 psi test, there was no distortion without any stays. This makes for a pretty simple boiler construction.


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## RickWeber (Mar 7, 2011)

Here's the fire grate for this coal-fired vertical boiler. This stainless steel mesh is stocked by MacMaster Carr in all different sizes. I experimented with different sizes and came up with this one: 6 x 6 grid (per inch). Opening size .104 inch. Open area - 39%. Wire size - .063 inch. MacMaster Carr part number 85385T32.

It turned out to be a sturdy and very simple fire grate for my small coal-fired vertical boilers.


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

Thank you all for your construction notes. They will be very helpful when I start construction on my boiler.

UPDATE:
I have obtained the boiler tube which is 2-1/2" dia copper. All I need now is the boiler end plates.

I do need help though, I dont know if the boiler size will be to big for the gauge one chassis. Im thinking it would look and function better on a gauge 2 or 3 locomotive. The boiler will be 2-1/2" in dia and 6-1/2" in height. 

-Dylan


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

My son and I built a pair of geared logging engines with vertical boilers similar to what you describe. 
http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/20730-graham-engines-project.html








it worked out pretty well as a 7/8th scale machine:









http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/20730-graham-engines-project.html


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

Phippsburg Eric said:


> My son and I built a pair of geared logging engines with vertical boilers similar to what you describe.
> http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/20730-graham-engines-project.html
> 
> 
> ...


What are the size of those boilers? 

-Dylan


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

They are 2 1/2" diameter and 5" to the base of the stack.

They are much simpler than ricks project which is a work of art!


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

*Update! Coal Fired Boiler FInished!*

Hello once again! Since the last time I posted about this little project I undertook, I finished the coal fired vertical boiler. I recently tested the boiler on steam a was please with the result. I was able to fire and keep up steam for the better part of a half a hour . I was however having issues with the anthracite lighting so I was subjected to using charcoal. I can keep a fire with charcoal, just barely, but not with coal. Any ideas?? I think my firebox is not deep enough. Its about 3/4" deep which I think isn't enough. Also I'm going to start another boiler, which is in the beginning stages of the design process. It'll be a horizontal locomotive type boiler that has a 2-5/8'' dia boiler tube. However, I have some questions with this too. When designing the firebox is there anyway to figure out how deep it needs to be? This is what tripped me up on the vertical boiler and now with this one.


-Dylan


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dylan
Are you using the blower? Starting with charcoal? Use smaller pieces of anthracite (Welsh is better for small boilers) at the beginning.


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

I am using the blower. I even had an artificial blower going to get the charcoal going. I'll try breaking up the coal into smaller pieces.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

A vertical boiler is assisted by the fact it is vertical. I am able to bring a waning coal fire back to life with the assistance of an electric fan. I'm thinking that that would be impossible on a locomotive type, without the addition of charcoal. 3/4 inch depth is probably about the minimum depth of a firebox to keep a continuous bed of coals, however, the deeper the better (within reason). On my coal fired Willi, I dropped the grate by 1/4 of an inch (from 1/2 to 3/4) and it made a big difference. Of course the grate is only about 1" square.

Breaking the coal into smaller pieces (as suggested by Charles) makes it a little bit harder to create "air short circuits" which impedes the ability to keep the fire lit. I actually use much smaller coal chunks on my Willi than I do on my K-28.

Small fires are no where near as forgiving as larger fires provided by large, deep set grates.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

What size is your flue? Is it a straight single flue, no crosstubes? Looks like at least 3/4" by the 2.5" boiler dia. I built a 2.5" similar boiler and it has 6 - 1/4" ID flues. Makes more steam than it needs to. You can sleeve the lower part of the boiler and give you more firebox. Shoot for 1.25" Deep. I think you also have a draft problem though. What size blower nozzle? Being you are not running a exhaust through the boiler you will need a draft 100% of the time. I put the nozzle at about .030-.040" and set it at a 1in 6 taper to the stack opening and center it as best as you can. 

If you need Welsh coal, I have a single box left then sold out again.


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

The flue on the boiler is a 3/4" single center flue. The blower nozzle is made from a 1/8" dia copper pipe so its pretty small about 0.05"- 0.06". It has no taper angle on it because I didn't think I would need one. I have a question,however, how do I calculate these values on my own for future reference? For example, firebox depth, blower nozzle geometries, and other boiler and locomotive calculations. Is there a book or something I can pick up?


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

you can make a sleeve for the pipe using smaller tubing or K&S tubing. Start with a 1/16" tube in the pipe.. As to the flue, you def have a lot of gases going through, maybe too much. The blower isn't even going to keep up I don't think. May need s smaller flue or a way to restrict it near the mid section as a choke below the blower/exhaust line. Not sure how that will work out though. 

Usually the blower line will be 2mm or 3/32" pipe.

with a single straight flue you are not getting a lot of heating surface either. Cross tubes would help with that but then you cant clean the flues. That's why the smaller multiple flues are easier.

A lot is trial and error when making a project up. Much of the information is in various books, KN Harris boilers and boiler making is the one I like the most. JVR has some stuff if you can find it.


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## dcrtrains (Aug 7, 2013)

*Finished the Locomotive*

After a few years of working on this project, I have finally completed the locomotive. There were many changes to the design but it nonetheless was completed. 

Here's a video of it working.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Wxv02lE9T6iEAGvQ2


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