# DCC with brass track outdoors



## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Hi all. I have just finished my first 160' loop of brass track on a concrete roadbed. I would like to add a second loop next spring and incorporate some cross sections and switches with multiple locos running. To control and prevent collisions I would like to use DCC through the track. I like battery/wireless but automatic traffic avoidance would not be possible. 
My question is how many of the DCC users have been successful doing "through the track DCC" with brass track? I know that SS track is the way to go now, but I started collecting track long before SS came out so I have about 800' of brass track I am and will be using. I live in the northeast so four seasons will have their effect on the track.
Those of you who are successful do you have any tips or tricks, do's or don'ts you can share with me? What DCC systems do you use? What track maintenance methods do you use?

 Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks 
Steve


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I have about half brass and half stainless on my layout, and I use DCC, and to be honest I don't notice a huge difference. Track cleaning for me seems to be very seasonal. In the spring I need to clean prety often, in the Fall hardly at all. But I have a small layout, maybe 20-300 feet. All I can say is the brass track has worked fine for me


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I have all brass track, a mix of Aristo track and LGB turnouts. It's been there since 1996. I have all my rails joints jumpered with soldered on solid copper wire. This prevents the rail joints from becoming an electrical problem. 

It works fine. It will oxidize some over a period of weeks and I need to pull a track cleaning car around a few times once every couple of weeks. After a rain, I'll need to make one pass with a track cleaning car to sweep the splashed grit off the rails. After a wind event I have to run a heavier loco to push the leaves aside. 

I use only abrasive cleaning, no cleaning fluids. Over the years, this has worked better overall than adding goop to try to make the rails cleaner. 

SS probably has less of an oxidation problem than brass, but brass is manageable. Stainless is solderable, but with great difficulty so that rail clamps are recommended (at additional expense). 

see links for more details 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/track_cleaning_tips.html 
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/track_soldering_tips.html


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## Joe McGarry (Jan 4, 2008)

My layout has about 400 fet of Aristo 332 brass track. Rail clamps on all the track joints. We're in an area where we get a good deal of airborne dust, and a couple of areas of the track get wet down with the lawn sprinklers daily. I ended uo attaching a piece of pole sander abrasive to the pad of my Aristi track cleaning car. I'm using 220 grit, I started with 180 grit, but it seemed to be to aggressive. I usually run this around the layout a couple of times before each running session. Wheels and sliders on the locos staying much cleaner than prevoiusly. Although I'm not running DCC. I'm running track power, with an Aristo Revo.

Joe Mc


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

I have about 300 ft of 332 brass Aristo and LGB track. I use about four different types of railclamps and also a dab of LGB conductor paste. I clean about three times a year with the scotch brite pad on a drywall sander, the rest of time just picking up debri. I use the Massoth system and it shows very little loss on my track. I also clean my engine and rolloing stock wheels about once a year also depending on use. 
Steve


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Thanks guys for your replies. I really thought there would have been more responses. Joe and Steve thanks for the info, I will be using Hillman rail clamps. Mike I have followed your posts for awhile, it looks like you have good luck with everything you try.







I'll probably be asking you more questions in the future. George I check your's and Greg's site often, they are a great resource. I was not aware you used DCC with brass track until you replied. I think the Large Scale community owes you guys a Big Thank You for your sites.
Well I guess I will just have to give it a try and see what works and what doesn't.

thanks
Steve


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Steve, 

Since you were hoping for more responses I'll pass on my experience. I have had about 200' of LGB brass flex track down for about 10 years now, almost all with just the stock connectors because when I first built it I wasn't aware of things like rail clamps. Despite that, I've had very few conductivity problems but for the expansion I'm working on now (adding about 200'), I'm using the 3m long LGB flex rails and Hillman clamps. I use DCC: wireless Massoth Navigator handhelds, with the LGB MTSIII central station. I have one track feed from inside the house using 12gauge wire, and there is negligible power loss. I live close to the ocean so there is definitely salt spray in the air many days, and I find that using the LGB track cleaner once in a while is all that is needed to keep the track working well. Like George says, after a rain I usually go around the track with a dry hard sponge to knock of debris, sometimes soak it a bit with smoke fluid to take off any residual oil from live steamers or road traffic etc. I also go over my engines and car wheels in the winter to give them a good cleaning. So in summary I find brass track no problem at all to keep clean, and the majority of the cleaning I do I would have to do even if I was running battery power because it's cleaning off branches, leaves, gravel after a rain storm etc. that you would have to do anyway. I would avoid stainless steel since it is a) hard to work with, b) more expensive, c) will wear out your loco and car wheels faster, d) doesn't conduct as well, and e) is more 'slippery' than brass rail. As far as any other 'do's' and 'don'ts', I would just say spend lots of time and effort making sure you have good granular base with good drainage, and elevating the track a foot or so at least makes a huge difference in maintenance. As far as code of track, I would strongly suggest you stick with code 332 because you will have far fewer operational and maintenance issues if you do. 

Good luck! 

Keith


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Help a friend of mine this spring to lay 160 ft of all brass track and used split jaw rail clamps. Using DCC and it works great. Maybe he will come in and give us an up date as to how its doing so far. Later RJD


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been powering my outdoor "brass" track using a Digitrax Chief for more than 10 years. Also using rail clamps (San-Val).


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Keith, 

SS is slippery? Maybe if it were polished, but it's not. 
The cohesion is so good that it pulled the tires of the drivers of my 4-4-0...twice! I would have preferrred that the wheels slipped, but they don't, they hop!. Heavy load on a grade. 
I've not had an issue with conductivity either, one hookup for power and no clamps (except where I cut the track to fit), just joiner screws. 

John


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Somewhere, I can't remember where now, I saw some empirical tests of rail material and traction. Aluminum was the least slippery, stainless the most. Wish I could remember where I saw it. 

I have a nasty grade in on part of my layout and have not changed to SS rail there partly because I worry a little about wheel slip


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I remember that comparison too, Lownote, and I've heard it firsthand from people with SS. Maybe it depends on the brand and the profile of the top of the rail? 

Keith 

P.S. That's a nice looking bass--what kind is it?


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 24 Nov 2009 09:37 AM 
I remember that comparison too, Lownote, and I've heard it firsthand from people with SS. Maybe it depends on the brand and the profile of the top of the rail? 

Keith 

P.S. That's a nice looking bass--what kind is it? 

I have Aristo SS and it seems to be ok as far as slipage, none that i can tell but i do run indoors on level ground. Next spring will be the test for me outside. i think it should be ok.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, I run DCC on about 130' of brass track, rail clamps, and only one connection for the power. Been there for 4 years with no issues. I do run a sanding pole over the track if I haven't run in a few days, takes about 2 minutes to walk the 140'.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

That's the key though! Rail clamps expensive and if you have aristo track connectors, there will probably be a problem with conductivity!! I haven't mustered up enough nerve to try the MTH DCS system outdoors on my track with track power up to now been running pretty much battery, although I can go track power and did so with no problems over a year ago, but now I think could be possible problems, and the MTH is way more sensitive to any kind of non conductivity. Gonna give it a try though one of these days just to see. My track powered bachmanns and aristo, and hartland locos all did run very well over a year and 1/2 ago with the track power, and it was off the TE aristo system with Ultima. The Regal


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

I have a couple of hundered feet of Aristo brass which has been down for about 7 years and I use the standard Aristo rail joiers with LGB paste smeared on the surfaces prior to installation. The Aristo joiners with their built in screws work fine and I don't really understand the need or the various ater market clamps except where you want to be able to remove track (switches?) for maintenance. 

I converted from DC to DCC two years ago and find track cleanng to be a minor issue so long as I run loco's with 4+ pickups (wheels and or sliders). Seems to me that the higher continuous voltage of DCC minimizes some of the conduction problems and a couple of laps of my track cleaning car behind an Aristo plow takes care of any problems. Brass is easier to work with and cheaper than SS. Perhaps if I was starting over I'd go with SS, but I don't find brass a handicap. 

Peter.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I would like as well to chime in here and that is from my personal experience.

When I started in the hobby a read a lot about brass and Stainless steel had just become available. From what I read (and this is definitely region dependent) brass oxidizes quite quickly and requires fvery regular cleaning (and I can confirm that a single piece of brass rail is dark brown in 4 weeks in my garden). So I choose "maintenance free" stainless steel, track, switches, clamps the hole nine yards. Now 6 (or is it 7 - time goes by if you are having fun) years later my DCC layout became very disruptive. In certain areas I heard a little buzz and was wondering what is that? Going closer to the ground it came from a rail joint area and touching the rail joiner burned my fingers (hot like a soldering iron). Took the joiners off cleaned them, cleaned the track and used antioxidant cream in the hope to prolong the interval to the next break down. In addition all stainless steel switches stopped basically functioning, because the wire that bring power to the two stub rails (that continue after the frog) coroded around the screw area, so trains stopped on the other side of the switch. Now that is really bad, because there is no way to solder this for a more permanent connection.

So I replaced the stainless steel switches now with Nickel switches and nickel interconnect clamps (where I again used anticorrosive cream). The switches have soldered electric connections at least there is no corrosion between the wire and the tracks' solder point. Unfortunately the Nickel solution was not available at the time otherwise I would have chosen that.

So, today, my personal opinion is: Stainless steel is a waste of money because it is not maintenance free. So last question is it Brass or its sister the Nickel plated version, which is 20% more than the Brass. Here is my justification. While I have to acknowledge that I have to do maintenance no matter what (at the joints) I like the less maintenance on the rail surface. It would take me on my layout with 3 stations and many siding too much time to operate a track cleaning loco (> 1 hour) before I can start playing. 

So the size and the complexity of the layout should determine the decision on how to go. I would even go as far as saying if you use DCC go with the lesser rail maintenance since I expect less complexity in the layout. The smaller the layout and if it is only 1,2, or 3 loops (no switches...) you can use brass.

Important, in order to prolong the maintenance cycle ... always use anti-corrosive cream in the joints.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I had a similar experience with stainless. I had one place where I had simply joined the tracks with aristo joiners, and not even screwed them together. I'd laid the track, tested it, saw it worked, and forgotten all about it. Then I started noticing flaky power "downstream" of that spot, and when I touched the track at the connectors--OUCH--very hot. I added paste, screwed the connectors together, and the heat dissipated and has not come back.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't think you would be able to run DCS without railjoiners, but one of these fine days when the urge hits me I will take the MTH Triplex out and give it a test with just the Aristo joiners but I'm thinking it won't work very well. If it doesn't I will have Ray of MTH fame just set me up that engine with a battery setup, then NO problemo i would guess. AT a $1.00 apiece little more or less, it's a little pricey to conver all the joiners on 480 ft of track even with the 5ft sections. Lotsa rail clamps!! The Regal


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I run a variety of power and a variety of track. In some cases I have used some rail joiners but for the most part I have not. The one thing I always have used has been LGB conductive paste. After years I often found brass track clean and shiny under the joiners when pulled apart. If I had to choose between paste and joiners I would choose paste and if I wanted the best I would use both but to save money I tend to not buy clamps unless and until I have a problem. A friend bought a lot of the inexpensive Aristo-Craft clamps and he has been very happy with them.

It is important to match the clamps with the track they are used on. I got some clamps very cheap and discovered that they could not put enough pressure on the joiners to squeeze Aristo joiners down onto the rails but worked fine over LGB brass joiners (which are softer) or without joiners. Since they were used clamps to be used on old brass track I was sure to clean the contact surfaces of both the rails and the clamps PLUS I still used LGB conductive paste.

Sometimes I run MTS/DCC (and now Revolution) but most of the time I run track power. I think that where you live has a LOT to do with what you need to do in laying track. 

I also run trains on brass track that has not been cleaned in MONTHS with few problems. Just because the track is brown does not mean that it does not conduct.

In my opinion other important factors are:

1. none of my track touches the ground so it is not subject to ground contaminants.
2. my trains tend to have at least 8 confirmed track contacts per loco and my locos are MUed so a long train will have 16 - 32 track contacts.
3. I tend to match longer (or passenger) trains (more amps drawn) with locos with more track contacts.

In other words I think conductive paste and multiple locomotive track contacts are every bit as important as using clamps. After all a night light can work with smaller wires (less conductivity) than a flood light. Match the conductivity to the locomotive requirements but nothing will make up for lower than minimum track contact.

Some brands of locomotives tend to have rigid frames that do not allow the wheels (track contacts) to ride up and down on the rails so any slight rocking of the locomotive can result in a significant loss of track contact.

If you have a conductivity problem don't just check the track - check the loco and tender contacts with the wheels and sliders etc. as well. Also watch the loco as it travels the rails and see if all the wheels stay in contact with the rails.

I don't use MTS/DCC enough to make strong recommendations so I would instead consider these comments to be suggestions.

Jerry


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Jerry on both track and engines needing lots of contact. 
I wired my passenger cars together with the engine and all cars have 2 power pickups. This train runs real smooth. 
My small 2 axle engines are mu'ed with a toytrain tender that has sleeve bushings for power pickup by Jay-bee. These run real good also.


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

I went from track power to DCC three years ago. I have always run brass track. I never clean my track with anything more aggressive than a green scotch brite pad. The more aggressive the abrasive the quicker the track will oxidize and you will loose continuity quicker. With DCC the constant high voltage really helps the pickups over regular track power. I use the NCE wireless and have set my voltage to the max. I clean my track maybe twice year on my outside track. The constant voltage of the DCC really helps brass track pereform. I have a mixture of LGB and Aristo. I am really partial to the Eristo track but my next track buy will be Train-Li's new track. I talked to Axel at the California show and he had some great comments that made sense.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

One thing to remember no matter weather you are using the AC brass or SS switches you will have failures of the wires jumping around the frog unless you properly protect them from moisture. I have done this after my first brass switch failed. Of course now I use all SS and DCC and do enjoy less track cleaning. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I strongly believe that the problems Axel had with track was not the composition of the track, but poor joiners, and poor conductivity at the joint. 

This has nothing really to do with the metal in the track, but the connection between sections. 

In fact that was proven in that the "hot spot" was at the connection. I have never seen a slip type SS connector worth a darn. The Aristo ones have poor conductivity due to many factors, they cannot be bent as closely to the rail like brass, thus dirt and grit can work between the rail and the joiner. 

Most of the conductivity then comes through the very tiny contact patch between the head of the hex screw and the joiner. To make matters worse, one of the holes in the joiner is a slot, so the screw head now only touches a tiny half moon piece at the top of the slot and one below. 

When there is a misdrilled hole, or malformed joiner, it gets worse. 

Filling the joiner with grease might help dirt and grit buildup, but nothing can beat a good, tight, secure rail clamp that clamps on both sides of the base of the rail. 

I have no experience with other SS joiners, only these, and of course many different type of rail clamp. 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Greg:

I would have thought so too, but my entire layout is Railclamps in SS. And even the hot ones were tight, becasue I was not able to pull the track apart until I loosened the screws. So, if it is some form of "oxidation" layers of mist and dirt? But I can tell after wire brushing that it looked shinier again.

But at the end of the day it really doesn't matter, whether it is dirt or oxidation - both will lead to maintenance. And maybe nothing is wrong with that either, its more a precautionary story, because I didn't expect that.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry Axel, maybe I misunderstood you. The bad (hot) joint was at a rail clamp? Just out of curiosity what manufacturer, and was the clamp directly on the rails or over a stock joiner? This was Aristo track too, right? 

I have had a weird buildup occur in some Aristo track and Split Jaw SS rail clamps, but it turns out that I did not tighten them properly at first, and I found lubricating them first allowed the proper torque to be applied. 

Some of the SJ clamps had "Sticking points" when turning the screw and that gave me a false torque "feedback" where I thought they were tight enough, but they were not. 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I used splitjaws SS and directly on the track. Never used a joiner - anywhere.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Weird, but I have to agree that I have had a few joints get something in them, I don't know what it was, but I did get some resistance. SS is not corroding itself. Knowing the properties of SS, it's hard to believe that this same thing would not happen on any other metal. 

On the few joints I have had poor resistance, removal, cleaning and reassembly cured it. 

Regards, Greg


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2008)

I have about 800 ft of Aristo SS with LGB ties with Split Jaw SS clamps. Aristo SS switches. I have a 12ft radius curve that climbs 4+ % with no slippage problem. One feed off a siding to the whole thing running DCC. It is on year three. I started with Aristo ties. They came off easily and did not provide the "twisting" stability anywhere near that of the LGB ties. But this thread is about the juice. I had three dual motor LGB engines running last summer on a hot sunny day and noticed a smell. The plastic on the Aristo switches had melted above a jumper wire. I bypassed them with 14 ga wire. I also put NOALOX paste in the joints. Seems to run fine now. One thing Keith said is correct: Very hard SS track will probably wear the undercarriage of rolling stock more than brass. Also, IMO, SS does not look as good as brass. With the new Krylon flat paints, you can paint the sides of the rail before installing them. Seemed to work well on my test section. But I doubt the paint will last on SS. My maintenance is minimal, but I live in a mild (35-100 deg F) climate in northern California. I wipe the track, pick up branches and cut back growth on the track now and then. That's about it for maintenance.


I recently headed a group that put in an exhibit at the SF Conservatory of Flowers with Accucraft flex track in a hostile environment (wet, humid, dirty). Brass with Split Jaw SS clamps. One caution comment: the brass is really soft; it cuts easily (not quite butter, but not LGB either) and bends easily. We almost didn't need a rail bender. (Read: Don't walk on this stuff) Needs cleaned daily. Seems to be running fine at 8 hours a day, six days a week for a few weeks so far. It will be interesting to see it after 6 months.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Has anyone tried using Noalox on their railclamps to reduce oxidation? You can buy it at Home Depot. This is a product that is specifically designed to reduce oxidation of wiring joints over long periods of time....30 years and such. It contains zinc particles that sacrifice themselves when corrosion happens through oxidation. It also has an anti-seizing aspect to it...so even after years of use, it's supposed to reduce the chance you break a bolt or screw. I've used this stuff for years for electrical connections in my house...as my home has some aluminum wire in it. 

I also learned that many homes have aluminum power cables from the street...and this is the stuff used to ensure that oxidation doesn't degrade you homes connection to the power grid. All power companies use this stuff for that connection I was told because over time, heat is generated at the connection point in the breaker box and the heat causes the wire and the post to expand and contract very slightly...and this stuff hangs in there and prevents oxidation.


Since our track expands and contracts from heating and cooling by the sun, this stuff might be a good anti-oxidant to use for rail clamps and anywhere wires connect to clamps on the track. Thoughts?????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I just bought a bottle based on our discussions before Mike. I found that you can get it in a tube, and now a squeeze bottle with a nozzle, so bought the latter. Will be trying it this weekend. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Man now you tell me after I already laid my new track to the new storage area. later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

RJ, I've had very little trouble, only in a couple of spots did I get a little voltage drop, and yours are all covered. 

I did spray some lube on a few of them, but it did not seem to do much. I'm going to try this stuff, some of the clamps get some orangish stuff on them, have not figured out what it is, but I think it's the lube I tried. 

Regards, Greg


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

I've just redone all the connections in my lower loop with a similar product called Joint Seal made for HV jointing and connections. We get a small squeeze bottle with each termination kit at work.


I cleaned each rail and clamp with a wire wheel, then applied it to the clamps and wound 'em up. I'm not expecting to get any trouble from them for a long while (not that there was any - just heading off at the pass..).



This is the blurb on the suppliers website: 


*EP Joint seal (White, 300gm tube)*

EP Joint seal is made up of lithium based 180°C stable grease and titanium oxide. Joint seal is recommended for copper conductors in aluminium fittings and copper to copper connections. EP Joint seal assists the breakdown of contact resistance, fills any voids left after compression and prevents water or contaminants from entering the joint. 




They also supply the lithium / zinc product you know as Noalox, that one is recomended for Al - Al joints. I went for the Cu spec since it's closer to brass. Not sure what would be best for stainless tho.


Cheers
Neil


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Good info, Neil. 

There is also a product I've been wondering about that we used to call "never sieze", that was a copper paste. As a kid I remember wire brushing heavy machinery engine head bolts then putting on the paste on the threads to prevent corrosion etc. With all that copper in it, maybe it would work? Have you guys ever seen/used it? 

Keith


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2008)

NOALOX: I've only used it a year of so; several other members of our club in the SF bay area have used it for years; they like that
it doesn't run in the heat.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have never seize or anti seize, it's a high temp lithium grease, and you can get it in copper bearing or nickel bearing. 

In most of these cases, the primary "good" is done by blocking out air and moisture. 

The anti-sieze compounds have the extra advantage of making things slipperier, good for SS screws in SS joiners.. 

On the anti-corrosion/oxidation, brass and aluminum will benefit from special compounds, SS and Nickel will not, they don't oxidize (from a practical standpoint). 

I'm going to try the noalox, but the anti sieze might be even better on my SS split jaws... but that stuff is really messy and gets all over everything. 

Maybe I'll do several different ones and report back. 

Regards, Greg


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

As I said above...Noalox is BOTH an anti-oxidation barrier AND an anti-seize compound...at least according to their literature...and it's 20% by weight zinc to absorb oxidation that does get to it. http://www.idealindustries.com/prod...noalox.jsp

And of note...for those of you with really LARGE layouts, it's sold in 55 gallon drums too.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, understand, but it would be good, if you are desirous of anti-seize and anti-oxidation, to see if it works on the particular metal you are using, it is very specifically for aluminum, and combating aluminum oxide. 

My guess is anti-seize comes from the zinc and the grease itself, and from what I know of zinc, it would work pretty well on most metals. Oxidation on brass, dunno. 

20% zinc is pretty good. 

Wish they commented on the use on brass, etc. 

I'm going to try it though. 

Greg


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2008)

Talked to the local chemistry guru here who is familiar with NOALOX. Turns out the big thing about it is that it is hydrophobic (repelled from water) and conductive. Hence it has found use by the electricians for copper as well. Reinforces Mike's comments.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

WHAT....no one needs a barrel of Noalox????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Grease is typically hydrophobic, although, there are better greases to keep water out... this is a lithium grease, very typical. 

The zinc does seem to be very helpful in oxidation of aluminum, I don't have confirmation on copper, but zinc is used in many applications. 

This grease is NOT conductive. There are VERY FEW truly conductive greases. One of the only ones I have found (other than the very expensive copper and silver bearing greases designed for this) is the Aristo electrolube. Unfortunately it washes out with water and is not plastic compatible as advertised. 

I used a fluke meter to check the resistance of Noalox, nothing, open circuit until the probes touched inside the dollup of Noalox. It did measure the resistance of my body in the megohm range. 

Many electricians confuse the action of impeding oxidation with adding conductivity. 

Regards, Greg


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## Michael Benke (Jan 8, 2008)

Steve, I have a combination of 150 feet of Brass and 500 feet of Stainless all code 332. The power is supplied using 12/2 outdoor low voltage wire. I connect to the track every 30 feet to insure NO conductivity issues. I use Slip jaw connectors which I feel are a better clamp than the Hillman clamps. My power is all Massoth which I love. It is all wireless and ALWAYS works. It has been down for almost 4 years with NO problems.


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