# Phoenix out of business??



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been waiting since mid November for a system. Does anyone know what's going on with these people? Are they still in business?
D


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Seems that they had some supply problems the last few months, but I have been getting items with some delays. Now have announced a new system.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

You need to call. 
Sometimes orders get lost, especially if it's from November.


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

My dealer has called. The said the boards would be here in a week, 2 weeks ago.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I've been hearing "a couple of more weeks" since January. I wish another company would step up and give them some competition. Other than QSI which involves a whole new operating system.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Just remember the lovely folks at Soundtraxx who simply cut production of the Sierra line (instead of re-engineering for currently available processors) and GAVE the market to Phoenix.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Just remember the lovely folks at Soundtraxx who simply cut production of the Sierra line (instead of re-engineering for currently available processors) and GAVE the market to Phoenix.Business is business Dave. Maybe they didn't sell enough of them to make it worth their while to redesign. They're still selling sound decoders for the smaller scales, but even there they eliminated their separate sound boards for those wishing to use a decoder from a different manufacturer. They seem to be moving to a "one size fits all" business model instead of making a variety of boards for different applications.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

You tell him Dwight....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think Soundtraxx has more than one problem. The economy is a given. 

But I waited 7 years for the large scale Tsunami. 

They seem to take a long time to develop new products. From speaking to people "in the know" the President is not really full time in the company, so things can take a while. The telling point is how long it took to get the diesel sounds in the HO Tsunami (I believe I have it right), the steam was available right away, and the Diesel took more than a year (I think 2) to get to market. 

They are not a large company and their resources are stretched. They also moved once and it disrupted things for quite a while. Later, they got a "pick and place" machine, and it was supposed to really help production, but it was disruptive also. 

It's too bad that we lost the Sierra series, but my opinion is (and has been for a while) that the days of "sound only" units are numbered. Since all sound systems need a microprocessor, it's not a lot more expensive (proven by QSI) to add DCC and motor control. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I have just re gear boxed a Connie that has Sierra in it. I like Sierra sound. 

The biggest problem I had with Sierra was a dealer such as myself had to stock a whole heap of different hardware pcb's and of course never had the right one. 
The Phoenix and QSI way of doing it is so much more dealer friendly. 
Same piece of hardware. Re programmable to whatever sound you wanted. 

My problem with Phoenix is getting them. Hopefully with the P8 that problem is relieved. Fingers are crossed. 

Maybe if QSI come out with a sound decoder that can read pwm voltage and have external sound triggers, Phoenix will have some competition.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not advocating for or against the decision Marty. Just stating a possibility. Whether we like it or not, large scale is a niche market, and those choosing battery-RC are a niche within a niche. 

My advise - go live steam and forget the electronics! hehehe


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 13 Mar 2010 08:01 PM

My advise - go live steam and forget the electronics! hehehe Yes, but we've always known you got totally lost in G gauge live steam, then drifted farther and farther until you just had to "Ride on them"...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 13 Mar 2010 08:13 PM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 13 Mar 2010 08:01 PM

My advise - go live steam and forget the electronics! hehehe Yes, but we've always known you got totally lost in G gauge live steam, then drifted farther and farther until you just had to "Ride on them"...











Yeah... ain't it grand!


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

guys you act like soundtraxx is not doing anything just becouse you don't see a G scale product ....... 

but in the HO and N market they are the one to have ..... 

they have all sorts of boards to fit any type of loco ... 

they are installed in a lot of locos stright from the factory they hit almost every big show and give sound seminars in stores and they are out getting new sounds .... 

they are big and work the big HO market 


this does not mean they do not want to make a G scale item it just means that they have not gotten to it ......


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As one of the only 3 people who commented on Soundtraxx: 

I did not "act like soundtraxx is not doing anything just becouse you don't see a G scale product ......." 

I know they are focused on the HO scale market and are very big there, why else would I hope for a Large Scale Tsunami for 6 or 7 years? 

I think it's reasonable that the cost of development is high, and that HO is their mainstay, and that they have proven over the years that their development capability is not huge (no one's is any more!). 

So please don't put me in that box Scott. 

I don't see TOC or Tony stating that "act like soundtraxx is not doing anything just becouse you don't see a G scale product ......." either, we are bemoaning their loss... I took TOC's statement to be regret that the situation effectively "gave" the market to Phoenix. 

But, I guess all statements are subject to interpretation, and mine may be wrong. 

Regards, Greg


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

I just sent "Sound Traxx" an e-mail practically begging them to produce a system for us non DCC G scale folks. It would seem to be a pretty easy thing for them to do as they already have almost all of the ingredients. I listened to some of their sound samples and I think they sound great.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

What keeps you from installing HO sound boards in a G equipment? Surely there is not a size problem. If it is lack of audio power, I assume one could put a small amplifier from Radio Shack and a larger speaker.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

CT: Trigger inputs 

And since the Tsunami is DCC... it's highly unlikely they would rewrite the code to be non-DCC.... 

The Tsunami already has "DC mode".... just ask them to add some trigger inputs to control sounds. 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 14 Mar 2010 09:32 AM 
I just sent "Sound Traxx" an e-mail practically begging them to produce a system for us non DCC G scale folks. It would seem to be a pretty easy thing for them to do as they already have almost all of the ingredients. I listened to some of their sound samples and I think they sound great.

Why go beggin!! Just go with QSI/G-wire, and you'll save money,and time, and pullin out yer hair in the long run!! Hah LOL Regal


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

When I heard aristo was not going to incorporate sound in the Revo, I thought, "that's a mistake," because I'd gotten used to QSI, with integrated sound and motor control.

But I thought Phoenix was developing a board that integrated more easily with the Revo board--did I get that wrong?


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## Dennis Cherry (Feb 16, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 14 Mar 2010 09:32 AM 
I just sent "Sound Traxx" an e-mail practically begging them to produce a system for us non DCC G scale folks. It would seem to be a pretty easy thing for them to do as they already have almost all of the ingredients. I listened to some of their sound samples and I think they sound great.
Well I must be one of the few that has a Soundtraxx board that works on DC, have it installed in a Bachmann Shay for many years, so my two Shays would sound different. The other Shay has a Phoenix board.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I know that they were manufacturing a small lot for dealers that specifically ordered them but even that has now been cut off and it was _not _announced in advance!


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis, when you say Soundtraxx, what do you mean? 
Soundtraxx Sierra? 
OR: 
Soundtraxx Tsunami? 

Sierra will work just fine on DC (including PWM as long as you use the supplied battery only) and you will be able to trigger sounds with reed switches. 

Tsunami as fitted to the 3 truck Shay will also "work" just fine on filtered DC, but, there is no access to trigger sounds with reed switches.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Gwire and QSI may be good its also cost more to do. Later RJD


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

Massoth is coming out with a stand alone sound card. eMOTION S Sound Decoder probably won,t be out till later this year though and no news on the price. 
Steve 

[url]http://www.massoth.com/index.en.html [/url]


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

*A little glimmer of light. Phoenix is on the York train show vendor list as of 3/11/2010. Or maybe they are coming to say goodbye...............Jim*


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Jonathan of rctrains.com just got his shipment from Phoenix last week. I got my P5 Thursday from him. I you are still looking for Pheonix sound you might contact him.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 15 Mar 2010 06:08 AM 
Well Gwire and QSI may be good its also cost more to do. Later RJD 

Really? you'd have to tell me how much you are paying for your Phoenix sound and your receiver, but I would bet QSI/G-wire is less from what I am seeing now, unless you are getting a special deal from someone!! Don't want to get into a he said she said argument, I only know that I am very happy with QSI/G-wire, and I have both the t-9000 throttle and procab!! Also have had 3 engines with Phoenix in them, and sold all three Phoenix units!! I think Phoenix is way more expensive for the soundboard and then if you are using Airwire for control it goes up even more compared to a QSI/G-wire installation!! I believe right now QSI/G-wire is $264 or less total for both the sound and control!! Regal


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

Lownote, 
It sounds like the PB8 is designed with the Revo in mind. Constant track power and Trigger inputs. I am hoping they bring one next week to York.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe that the Airwire receiver and the least expensive Phoenix is on par with the cost of a QSI and the Gwire receiver. 

It comes down to features and sound quality. 

I am partial to the sounds that are changed by the actual load on the motor, so I'm with the QSI setup. 

This may not be the deal-breaker for others, and the Phoenix has a more mature sound library, and a lot of customization for automated sounds. 

So people have 2 nice choices for AirWire systems. 

For people who need trigger inputs, the only quality answer is the Phoenix. That upcoming Massoth decoder only has 2 inputs, so you only control whistle and bell. Of course that may be enough for most users. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Regal: I think you mis interput my comment. I do not use the system you mentioned just for the reason of cost. Just from the review in GR the system of G wire/QSI start up is about $562. Once you have the controller now your still paying about $324 bucks per loco. Pricey. I use DCC and QSI cost me $130 per loco so its a heck of a cheaper. Later RJD


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a brief comment on the QSI vs Phoenix thing, I read in Garden RR magazine an article on the various options we have and the author suggested finding a club where both systems could be "experienced" in person. I thought that sounded like good advise. I've heard both sides argued here at nauseum and still don't have a good grasp of the pros and cons of a QSI RC battery system. and how it might compare with an RCS or Rail boss or TE or etc...and Phoenix sound 
d


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Here is a comparision of the QSI vs. the Aristo Revo for what it's worth:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...re-systems* 


Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are paying $324 per loco you are paying too much!! Not wanting to get into an argument, but I've never paid that much after the purchase of the throttle!! Do research seek and ye shall find! And start up oh boy!! Way too much you needs to frequent or research some other purveyors!! Whilst $130 per loco in DCC is great i'm speaking of the common guy who isn't!! I didn't misunderstand I was referring to Phoenix versus QSI/G-wire and not yer $130 set up, as I'm not familiar with it. Regal


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

At the ECLSTS, I was told the newest Phoenix sound unit is supposed ship in another month. 

I assume it will take a little longer to reach dealers, and then the ultimate buyers.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Amazing how they can stay in business.....if you can call not delivering product for 6 months being in business.


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

Dan, I am sorry I missed you at York. I too spoke with Phoenix. I had a nice conversation with John Weaver. He made it clear, they are not happy about the delays. The board manufacturer is having trouble getting one component. Not Phoenix's fault. 
I was able to look at a P8 board. Very small board. 5 triggers and more can be added with the P5T board. 
I am planning on a couple board when they start shipping.


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## ORD23 (Jan 2, 2010)

I have a Sierra in my 2-8-0 and my 2-6-0. They sound pretty good too. Only problems i've had is the battery going dead too fast. I just recently purchased two quick charge batteries for the Sierra boards. I also got two PB8's last month from a dealer in upstate New York, about $205 a piece. I do have about 8 other Phoenix boards and am happy with them. But it appears to me that I am having no problems getting stuff from each company (although I haven't bought a board off of Sierra in a few years or more), unless I am just ordering at the right times. Was wondering how the Tsunami sounded in the 3 truck? 

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Uhh.... The sierra is no longer being manufactured, for quite a while... so if you place an order, you will have a problem. 

Regards, Greg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Has anybody contacted Soundtraxx to find out if and when they plan to come out with _anything_ to replace their Sierra unit? I find it hard to believe that they would just quit? I know that the Tsunami was supposed to be the successor (if and when they finally got around to producing it for Large Scale) and that the "Quasinami" was a one-off "half measure" that really turned out to be a "******* step-child" that nobody wants or claims! I _liked_ the Sierra units! If the Tsunami could have been developed properly then I would have been content but they seem to have given up and just quit! Why??!!!


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, not to derail the thread too badly... but the last time I talked with Soundraxx ( 6 months or so ago) nothing was in development or on the horizon. Like you, I like the Sierra boards and use all I can get my hands on.

They're still a great system. I have a module for a Railbus that's just itchin' to be installed in one of my 'bashes.









Although, I'm awaiting one of the new Phoenix P8 boards. I understand that they're quite versatile for both DCC and regular DC. More triggers available.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Can the "Emotion XLS" from Massoth work as a stand alone sound system? They have a limited selection but one thing that is interesting is a conductors voice on almost all their options. They claim it will work with DCC or analog (with triggers)......sounds like just the ticket for $250 http://www.massoth.com/index.en.html


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan. 
The P8 is like the P5 in that it is designed for DCC and or battery power. It does not have a back up battery and will need a fixed supply to power it when idling. 
You will still need to purchase a PB9 for use with regular DC track powered operation.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 11 Apr 2010 05:52 AM 
Stan. 
The P8 is like the P5 in that it is designed for DCC and or battery power. It does not have a back up battery and will need a fixed supply to power it when idling. 
You will still need to purchase a PB9 for use with regular DC track powered operation. 

Thank you for the clarification, Tony. As I run only battery power and with the newly added trigger features, I've chosen it over the PB9. 

I'm still awaiting the first P8 to arrive for testing and installation, though.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

My dealer called today and said my phoenix system is on the way! Should have it early next week. Just in time for Christmas


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

P8 finally arrived today! Now for the install.
D


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Got my PB-9 unit Frdiay, very nice.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I just recieved 2 PB-9s' right before Marty's Steam Up...no delays...right on time! 

Have not noticed a problem!


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## xtcbct (Jul 15, 2008)

Now their website isn't working. Are they still in business? 

Xian


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

STILL in business!


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 13 Mar 2010 08:13 PM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 13 Mar 2010 08:01 PM

My advise - go live steam and forget the electronics! hehehe Yes, but we've always known you got totally lost in G gauge live steam, then drifted farther and farther until you just had to "Ride on them"...











Probably Stan....That was the only way he could make them go and was not able to find some more juice to push them. Had to go BIG instead. 
Now has to find more fuel like PG&E or invest in a coal co. Laf.. oops........


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