# Dead Battery?



## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I have a Tenergy Li-Ion 18650 14.8V 2200mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack w/ PCB Protection in an engine with the RailBoss 4 R/C. The battery is about one year old and while running the engine just stopped, no lights, no nothing. I plugged in the TLP-4000 Smart Charger and the top green led lights for about 2 seconds and then goes off (the Full and Charge lights remain off). This condition is not described in the charger's > manual <. 

The charger works fine on other engines. I am not too excited about the prospect to extract the battery and replace it.

Any suggestions of what to try?

Thank you for any guidance you can provide.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Mark have you tried to check the voltage?


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I've done nothing yet since to check the voltage I would need to disassemble the engine to get to the battery. If I went that far, I could just swap the battery with another one. I confess that I'm being a bit lazy (must be all the turkey and such) and was hoping those with more experience could say something like "well if the charger light goes out after two seconds then your battery pack is fried".

I guess, baring any further responses, a disassembly is in my imminent future.

Thanks for the response.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Before you try to dis-assemble your engine, get one of these smart chargers:

http://www.rctrains.com/ACDC-Balanc...SLA-w-12v-5A-Power-Supply-for-TB-6_p_281.html

I had a friend that had those chargers with the "idiot lights" and had the same trouble you are having. He bought this charger and actually saw that it needed charging. Saved him buying a new battery AND tearing the engine apart. I have used this same charger for almost four years now and love it. You can charge and trouble-shoot many different types of batteries.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I don't have any battery locomotives, but back when I used battery in an R/C helicopter, I made two wiring harnesses which came in very handy:

One inserted in between the battery and charger (or load), and connected to the multi-meter to read voltage. The other connected in the same manner, but was wired to read amperage. With two multi-meters, both could be used.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

this chg. is a good buy http://www.all-battery.com/tenergytb6b-charger-combo-90263.aspx


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

While I appreciate the responses I am currently operating on the assumption that the charger is fine. I have four other battery powered engines and they are fine and, as far as I can tell, the charger works fine on them.

I was hoping that someone might have familiarity with either this particular charger or know what the green light going out after about two seconds indicates. The RailBoss has a low battery warning detection circuit and it did not activate, the engine just stopped.

Is there a thought that these other chargers will provide some type of additional diagnostic information? My existing one just has the "idiot" lights and I'm obviously the target audience.

It looks like it's disassembly time!  Ah well, I guess that I'll have something to do next weekend.

Thanks for the thoughts.


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Just to make your day, I had two of those exact batteries die on me at umm, 14 months? or so thus exceeding the one year warranty. I had regularly used them and have the more expensive smart charger. Just would not charge. Called the supplier, they said, basically tough, nothing to be done. so I bought two more. Working fine now, but I guess based on my experience they do now and then just die on you.

Jerry


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

You should be able to check the voltage through the charging jack if you have a spare plug like on the charger.. Just read the voltage on the two leads from the plug. Carefull you don't short the leads.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

**** Habilis said:


> I was hoping that someone might have familiarity with either this particular charger or know what the green light going out after about two seconds indicates. The RailBoss has a low battery warning detection circuit and it did not activate, the engine just stopped.
> 
> Is there a thought that these other chargers will provide some type of additional diagnostic information? My existing one just has the "idiot" lights and I'm obviously the target audience.
> 
> ...


I guess I didn't make myself very clear on my response.......My friend had the same smart charger with the "idiot lights" that you are using and he finally broke down and bought the charger that I recommended, along with Dick413. That charger does do some minor diagnostics (you can get actually digital readings on the face of the charger!). Go ahead and bite the bullet.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting, the manual I found says there is one led, but yours has two?

http://www.all-battery.com/datasheet/01281_Manual.pdf

Greg


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

What is the voltage of the battery? If you get a reading (IE: 2.96 Volts) in the single digits, that means the PCB is activated because you dropped below the voltage limit of the PCB installed within the battery-pack. Take that number, times it by the number of cells within the pack and that is the total amount of voltage of your pack. If the voltage reads below 12 volts, there are a number of way's you can cycle your pack with the charger you have and bring it above the cut off limit.

When your green LED flashes once and then shuts off, that means your charger can not see any voltage from your battery-pack. If your using a DPDT switch from the battery to your loco, make sure it's in the charge position.

If the LED comes on green then turns red and shuts off, that means it sees voltage from your battery-pack but, the voltage has dropped below the cut-off limit and your charger can not bring it up to nominal voltage.

If you'd like to give me a call tomorrow, I may be able to help you further.
Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC
(319) 366-7294


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, there you go, the missing information on what the LEDs mean.

Thanks Rick.

Greg


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks to all for your responses. I, unfortunately, have to work this week (to pay for the "Worlds Greatest Hobby") so I will not be able touch anything until next weekend. 

Jerry: Oh boy, hope this isn't a foretelling for my other 5 battery packs.

Paul: I'll give that a try and will be very careful.

Gary: Perhaps I see a smarter charger in my future. I haven't spent any money with Jonathan for a while.

Greg: The manual does not match the charger. It has one unlabeled green light on the top with a green Charged and a red Charging light below. It is the unlabeled green light that is on for about two seconds and then goes off. The other two lights never light. This charger works fine on all of the other batteries/engines.

Rick: Thanks for the offer. I use the G Scale Graphics Battery Conversion Module for charging and the switch is in the proper "off" position. I'll need to take things apart to get to everything so I can then do the suggested diagnostics. If the battery is truly dead I may investigate your batteries as a replacement. 

Thank you again.


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Every now and then I power up the old 486 to see what's going on. I'm glad I could help.

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations, LLC
RCS America


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

i have a smart charger amd deal with Tenergy batteries a lot. I am just down the road a ways in Martinez.


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Well, the good news - the fuse blew!

The bad news - the fuse blew!

I checked all the connections, looked for the obvious shorts, etc. and found nothing. Replaced the fuse and the engine runs fine. Plugged in the charger and it starts charging, the red led lights.

The engine is a Bachmann two-truck Shay with replacement metal trucks and the R/C is a RailBoss 4. This was converted about a year ago and has been running just fine. The engine was pulling one car and there are no grades on the indoor layout so it was obviously not experiencing any type of load. I cannot detect any type of binding in the mechanism and for whatever it's worth the engine died in the middle of a long straight section of track. 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks, Mark


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Just to close this out.

I contacted Del Tapparo of G Scale Graphics regarding this problem and here is his response.



> No ideas on why the fuse blew. The only thing in the RailBoss that could cause that would be a catastrophic failure, like a shorted motor driver.
> 
> Since you have a Shay with two motors, the first thought that comes to mind for me is that one motor wasn't getting power, acts as a brake, forcing the other motor to draw more current. I have personal experience with this on my Climax. I bypassed all of the crappy Bachmann connectors and hardwired the two motors together.


I'm guessing that is the best clue so I will be direct wiring the motors as he suggested.

Thanks to all for their responses.

Mark


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Just curious. Wkat size fuse is it?


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Paul:

5 amp.


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## DWS (Aug 15, 2010)

How are you liking the Rail Boss 4? I am seriously thinking of getting one of these for each of my three engines (Bachmann Annie, Shay, Climax) and maybe adding Phoenix sound and Phoenix couplers on the Shay.

Thanks!

D.W.


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

D.W.

To paraphrase Sally Fields: "I like it, I really like it!"

I chose it due to its simplicity though it has far more capability than I use. I work with computers all day long and did not want to face similar incompatibly issues with my hobby. There are a multitude of threads on this and other forums discussing DCC (and other control systems) device compatibility and other issues. They mostly appear to eventually get resolved, but for me, I neither need the functionality nor want the hassle.

The support from Del Tapparo has been exemplary, though virtually none has been needed.

My only reservation that it is proprietary. To be fair, so are most all of the other non-DCC products. As they say: "youse pays yer money and youse takes yur chances!" I'm glad I did.

Hope this helps.


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## SolterraPete (Dec 8, 2011)

*My Dead??? Battery*

I have a Tenergy Li-ion 18650 14.8 v 2600 mAh battery (specs say max charge 1.3 A, max discharge 2.6A). It was running my Bachmann 2-8-0 when it just stopped. No sound, no lights, no volts. 

I took it inside and warmed it up and tried to charge it. After a few minutes the charger (Tenergy B6S AC/DC Balancing Charger for NIMH/NICD/Li-PO/Li-Fe/SLA w/ 12v 5A Power Supply) indicated “broken connection”. This has happened before and I thought it indicated the battery was charged. Re-railed the loco and left it for a week. Two days ago I fired it up and it went 5 ft and then stopped. 

This time I took the battery out, made sure it had not inflated, checked the volts and it was dead. Tried to charge it again, but got the “broken connection” message again. Now battery was around 14.8 volts. Put in a test setup with a motor and lights which draw 1 amp. It lasted maybe 10 mins when it went to zero again. Tried different chargers with same results. Tried the Tenergy charger with both a Tenergy 14.8 V 2200 mAh and a 5200 mAh batteries. The charger works great.

I am guessing that one of the cell protection circuits is bad and therefore will replace the pack. 

Any comments or suggestion before I order a new 4S pack?

Thanks

Pete Hendel
Lakewood, CO


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