# Accucraft Cab Forward



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

On a cold day with the 'by-pass' open you have the benefit of the axle pump circulating water back into the tender which has been warmed on it's travels by it's proximity to the boiler. This will keep the water around your gas cylinder at a nice ambient temperature which of course will help your twin burners to maintain suitable running pressure 
See video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbJsBiikfmY

Naturally everyone who runs a CF knows this, unless you live in a permantly warm climate where it wouldn't matter one way or the other.

In any event I normally run with the by pass open. With such a large boiler a 3/4 full glass from the outset will give you at least a 30 min run, and it's no big deal to squeeze in a few 'presses' of water from the bottle into the Goodall valve screwed into the top of the boiler. (picture)

I use a red vegetable dye from the local supermarket which I mix with the filtered rain water in the bottle feed.
My eyesight is not that brilliant but it sure helps to see the water level in the glass (see picture) The dye is harmless and you need very little for the water color to change. This makes life that bit easier for 'topping up'. If you want it darker then add a couple more drops.

I have read Charles notes on how you can improve performance and longliverty of your CF and I might just do that at some time in the future.
However. the video above shows how it runs out of the box, so some may think thats not bad at all








.


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Great video job! I love this track every time I see it, where is it exactly? I might put in on my "Tracks to Steam on Before I Die" list.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Trevor
Always good to see your cab forward running on such an attractive layout. 

If you installed a valve you could heat the water while keeping more :water in the boiler as per the design of the system during a run 











Add this situation to your watch list. Both on the top and bottom of the bracket we have found to have become loose. You will be able to determine this when the crosshead guide start moving up and down as the cross head goes to and from the cylinder.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Trevor
Here is our most recent completion of an upgrade Cab Forward going through the final test run in preparation to send back to customer. The engine is self starting even without using the drain cocks, shows good speed even with the throttle less than full open along with good power.


----------



## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By CapeCodSteam on 06 Nov 2009 06:17 PM 
Great video job! I love this track every time I see it, where is it exactly? I might put in on my "Tracks to Steam on Before I Die" list. 

Kent, I believe you will need to have your passport in order to get to that track, but I believe your LNER Mallard would feel right at home.


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

What I great video. What a great engine. Accucraft really out did itself on this model. I have made a vow to stick to one scale, one railroad, but if I had the cash, I would definatly add one of these babies to my collection, along with the GS 4 and the SP 2-8-0


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By seadawg on 08 Nov 2009 07:27 PM 
Posted By CapeCodSteam on 06 Nov 2009 06:17 PM 
Great video job! I love this track every time I see it, where is it exactly? I might put in on my "Tracks to Steam on Before I Die" list. 



Kent, I believe you will need to have your passport in order to get to that track, but I believe your LNER Mallard would feel right at home. 

I do have a valid virgin Passport, an empty bank account as well as a Hornby Live Steam Mallard which runs great in the kitchen on HO track. One out of three ain't bad.


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles, 

I love the alternating black and silver roofs, excellent touch


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Sir - over here we don't have the habit that you guys do of posting locations, especially in the present climate of vandalism and petty theft. 


You see, unlike you, we are not permitted to guard our trains with the use of firearms.









I'm pretty sure that if you ever come over to our part of the UK then main131 will offer you an invitation - he's a v generous soul, him.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 08 Nov 2009 08:29 PM 
What I great video. What a great engine. Accucraft really out did itself on this model.Actually, I think that it should be said that Charles and Ryan really out did themselves on this model. Thank goodness there are folks like them that can sort out the many issues that so many of our steam engines seem to have right out of the box.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve
I have to acknowledge Gordon Watson for the initial R & D work, thanks to his insights Accucraft products can be better off. Yesterday, when Ryan had got the engine up to pressure it was amazing.... I could swear I was seeing an Aster run: smooth, responsive, and very capable. The list is long but worth the time and effort. Bottomline, maybe just maybe Accucraft is taking in this "free" R & D that is posted here at MLS which could result in a step forward for their RTR offerings.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

+1

main131 and I have the equivalent persons to Charles and Ryan in our local mavens - Rod and Geoff [steam] and Neil [electrical]. 

Without them we would have a large collection of shelf-queens between us with a value approaching that of a bijou residence in Basingstoke. 

EVERY one of my steam locos has needed attention from minor 'get-you-going' to very major in order to operate as advertised.

I'm really looking forward to getting the next and last loco - one that has so far been a success out of the box for every new owner.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


----------



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

So I am finally putting mine to bed now before I get accused of nothing else to do but play with trains! Good night...


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Trevor
Can't seem to get the Cab Forward into the engine stall, any advice? Maybe something to do with west coast time....or the influence of others!


----------



## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Charles, I would really like to hope that Accucraft would take advantage of and incorporate the changes and upgrades that you have been able to successfully apply to this engine. But years ago I forwarded the necessary information to Cliff (to be passed on to the engineering folks) to allow them to develop the necessary crossover port to make the valve motion work prototypically, and you know how far that's gotten. So I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting. 

Ross Schlabach


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Too bad companies don't take advantage of the good research done by folks. I really don't understand that attitude. Cheap R&D!


----------



## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

"Too bad companies don't take advantage of the good research done by folks. I really don't understand that attitude. Cheap R&D!" 

You are right Jerry, it is very cheap R & D and it is being done for and by the very customers who are purchasing the products. What more could you ask?


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I just know I’m going to be sorry I answered this but I feel I have to. The statement, “don't understand that attitude. Cheap R&D” we all say it but I think we all know why they don’t. For those of you who don’t know why these “improvements” aren’t incorporated into future models, it’s simple. Ask yourself, why are Accucraft engines almost half the price of Aster engines? Take out all the extra machining and parts needed to fill the requirements of this “free” R&D and you have your answer.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 11 Nov 2009 05:35 PM 
I just know I’m going to be sorry I answered this but I feel I have to. The statement, “don't understand that attitude. Cheap R&D” we all say it but I think we all know why they don’t. For those of you who don’t know why these “improvements” aren’t incorporated into future models, it’s simple. Ask yourself, why are Accucraft engines almost half the price of Aster engines? Take out all the extra machining and parts needed to fill the requirements of this “free” R&D and you have your answer. 
Dear Mr Pantage - a point made, but omitting to mention that Aster products are made in a country with almost the highest levels of GNP, wealth and wages on the planet, and AccuCraft products are not. My bijou one-room apartment in downtown Tokyo, with a view over the local tofu makers and a row of flowers, costs almost $4000 a month to rent. Fortunately, the company pays.

In China I could buy a good sized chunk of a province for that. 

It is not as simplistic as you make out in your reply.

We are all aware of the relative levels of engineering excellence from the two producers - like you, I have a number of products from each of them so I'm well-qualified to make a judgement, although, in mitigation, I have to admit that I have five times as many AccuCraft locos than Aster. The difference arises from the fact that the AccuCraft producers make their version of what they are told to make, and are not model engineers as we understand the term, but assemblers of parts that they make. Aster had a prior history of making high precision parts for the banking industry comptometers and other mechanical adding machinery they produced, and simply transferred their skill-base at the time to making locomotives - Mr Cheng and his boys and girls at AccuCraft in China have no such foundation of which I am aware.

On the other paw, Aster producers actually go out into the world to see the real thing - I was in the NRM in York when a most pleasant gentleman there, whose name escapes me, was taking a gazillion measurements and photos of the 'Flying Scotsman' in preparation for its production. It might have been done for the love of trains, or it might have been in return for money - I'm in no position to say, but sending a Chinese technician to Canada, for instance, to make similar measurements on CPR 2860 would be one way of getting the price up to Aster levels. As it is, we have a locomotive that steams like few others - thanks to Mr Abbott - at around half the cost of a [non-existant] Aster model. Perhaps the fact that the new AccuCraft 'Countess/Earl' is such a great success is down to the total design of that locomotive by the late and much-missed Donald Pearse, a gentleman whose expertise in miniature steam locomotive design is legendary. I have seen five so far, and all are exemplary performers, including the two whose first runs I saw.

Respectfully

tac
www.ovgrs.org


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

For those of you who don’t know why these “improvements” aren’t incorporated into future models, it’s simple. Ask yourself, why are Accucraft engines almost half the price of Aster engines?
I get the impression that Accucraft makes models in 'batches'. They decide how many they are likely to sell and order/manufacture parts for that many + x% spares. Then they make (e.g.) 200 locos and ship them to the dealers in the various countries. 

Accucraft does include improvements in future models - if there is a future run. The second batch of J&S coaches are due from China soon with improved coupler mounts, I'm told. 

The needle valve in the steam oil lubricator is another example of an improvement that trickled through the whole (or most of the) product line. 

Perhaps the CF's 'improvements' weren't developed until after the pilot model had been tested on our shores and production of the batch was done. _(Which suggests that, if you get your hands on a pilot model, you should seriously wring it out before giving it back!)_


----------



## gaugeonebloke (Aug 18, 2008)

Re Cab Forward Tender Hand Pump.

Hello all, 



Hand Pump problem 


I've owned an Accucraft cab forward for a couple of years or so, one of the small band of G1 US prototype owners in the UK. It worked out of the out of the box but the problem I have at the moment is with the tender hand pump. It stopped working around the time I rattled the tender for the nth time in this case successfully retrieving the missing from new cosmetic hand pump cover for the tender. With the tender disconnected from the loco, only a tiny dribble came out of the right hand black pipe when the hand pump was worked. I undid the nut on the copper outlet pipe that projects from the side of the pump and the same feeble water flow was observed. After I reconnected it, I could hear something in the tender, which turned to be a stainless steel ball. I presumed this came from the vertical cylinder just before in terms of the water flow the nut I had disconnected, so I took the screw plug off the vertical cylinder, placed the ball in there, and then replaced the plug. I then found a 20mm diameter cylindrical brass part rattling around in the tender which tapered on one side to a screw thread and O ring; whilst the other side had been turned into a funnel shape; also the centre of the part on both sides had been drilled with a hole circa 2mm across. I guess it is part of a piston assembly yet both ends of the cylinder are closed so it has been a bit of a puzzle. Can anyone offer any advice please ? Do I have to disassemble the tender - soldered metal rails and all ?


For your info, I've had a few other problems: 

Frequently only one jet burner will light, if this happens I try lighting it again. If this persists, I toggle the T fitting that holds the jets out of the cab (no need to unscrew the cab) until it is poking up out of the cab and then light them with a light gas flow to see how they are burning. If one has a problem then I have either resorted to a pricker, or blowing out the jets with a bicycle pump or compressed air, testing with the burners outside of the boiler first. I also gave the loco gas pipe a blast from the rear of the loco to the T fitting as well as ordering in some jets from the US. Other minor issues include losing the nuts for the water inlet and gas connectors (Fortunately I friend had the right tap - phew!) and confusing the by-pass and front/rear engine balance valve when operating with the aid of very rough manual printout from the internet. Doh !


Simon


----------



## gaugeonebloke (Aug 18, 2008)

No-one replied to the pump problem so I just got on with it.

I used the notes on dismantling the tender discovered elsewhere on this forum. I just spent 15 minutes searching using "cab forward", "forward" and then finally "accucraft" but could not find them this time....so apologies cannot credit the author.


First of all, I wish I had taken some photo's. There are quite a few delicate detail parts on the roof which did not make it through the dismantling process still connected to the tender! There are 10 screws on the floor of the tender to be undone. After that the loco side fittings on the 3 pipes have to come off. Finally the cosmetic cover to the tender comes off, almost levers off, with the vertical three brass wires which poke through the mini-platform on the loco side of the tender needing more stick than carrot to prise free.


The pump is screwed to the non-cosmetic floor with 4 screws. Turned out that the pump has the funnel fitting described below in the base of the cylinder and one stainless steel ball goes in there, the other stainless steel ball goes in the fitting above the cylinder. If these two steel balls are in there respective places, the pump works.

I plan to use some sort of threadlock to secure the funnel part and then put back together later this week, testing the axle pump next.


----------



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

I have read the comments regarding the occasional problematic burners and I refer to another CF video which I posted on MLS earlier this year.
I had decided to remove the burners and soak them in a cleaning white sprit for a couple of hours and then blow gas through in both directions directly from the butane/propane mix tin.
I refitted the burners and was really pleased with the gutsy performance that followed. I did not have to have the gas turned up as the two burners, when on song just transform the performance.
Please note on the video, the engine just wants to go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJaJGk8y-As


----------

