# Making it more than a hobby



## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Hello,

Does anyone out there in train world make money with the large scale model railroad hobby? I would like a "hobby job".... a job making some extra spending cash doing something I enjoy.


With that being said what are folks interested in buying or having someone do for them? Some examples are weathering, scratch building, car construction, battery conversions, machining, railroad design, etc. 


Any comments would be great!

Thanks guys.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

My $.02, for what it's worth.. 

Unless you're retired and looking for something to keep yourself occupied, I would stay away from making your hobby your job. When you have a deadline and one or more customers waiting, it takes all the fun out of the work. If I were contemplating something like that, I'd do whatever suited me and then sell the results, instead of taking a commission on a project ahead of time. 

There are people who make money at various aspects of this hobby. Some do it as a labor of love, some make money on the side, and some do it full time. It can be done, but you must know yourself and how you react to being required to do something regardless of how you may feel. A good modeling friend of mine warned me against taking a job with a railroad, because he was afraid that it would dull my passion for modeling. In a sense, he was right - it has completely erased my interest in modern railroading, although I managed to shift my focus elsewhere. When it became my profession, it ceased to be fun. 

Above all, enjoy yourself! 
Ken Rickman


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By PapaPerk on 19 Jan 2011 07:27 PM 
a job making some extra spending cash doing something I enjoy.

Thanks guys. 



I think the key words are "extra spending money." There are probably a lot of people (like me) who enjoy playing with toy trains but who do not enjoy building stuff.

On the other hand I would seriously question how much people would be willing to pay for projects that might involve a lot of work. If you really enjoyed the work and wanted to do it for a low cost you would probably have folks standing in line but if the projects involved buildings (I'd love to have a coal loading operation as done by the Dardanelle & Russellville Railway) it would probably be difficult and expensive to ship without damage.

Your best options would probably be to find a local club and find if anyone there was looking for the type of things you enjoy building.

By comparison where I live there are no local G Gauge hobby shops and I end up doing a lot of work for fellow large scalers. I would much prefer to be able to refer the work to someone who enjoys doing it.

Jerry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anyone out there in train world make money with the large scale model railroad hobby 
I doubt it. I'm sure some high-end steam locomotive dealers make a few $$, but probably not enough to retire on. 

I've been making and selling stuff for fun, and I'm just about breaking even on the kits/parts - but not on my time. I haven't found anyone willing to pay the $100-500 extra that my hours of construction effort are worth. 

I would much prefer to be able to refer the work to someone who enjoys doing it. 
Ah - but how much is the buyer willing to pay? Are you quoting realistic rates for your time?


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Gentlemen, 

Thank you for the replies and opinions. Very good points!


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Here's an example, for what it's worth. I need some 20 foot and 40 foot containers for my empty intermodal cars. They usually go for about $25 each, plus the dreaded shipping. I'd be happy to buy half a dozen for $15 each, plus reasonable shipping (because they'd just be empty plastic boxes). Could or would you do that? Could you make a few bucks when selling them for $15 each? Would you feel it's worth your time and effort? 

If you said yes to both, let me know - I'm interested. 

JackM 

You'd also have to consider that, if you do it on a regular basis, you'd be considered a business and probably have to get a DBA and a state sales tax license - easy to do - and then keep records (sales minus cost of materials) and collect sales taxes from customers in your own state and remit those taxes to your state tax office. If you're small potatoes, that'd probably not be too big a deal, but you'll want to consider that. If you make a big bunch and want to sell them at the train shows in neighboring states, you'll need tax licenses for those other states and file tax reports annually, semi-annually or quarterly with all of them. That's when it gets to be a royal pain. Guess how I know. I once went through four years of unemployment (long before it became fashionable) and supported myself driving 50-60,000 miles a year doing shows. Good way to kill a car, too.


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Well, I guess I'm the odd man out here. I have more work than I can do, and am always booked for more than 6 months in advance. I started in HO, and then moved to G Scale. I find that my customers want a product that is quality, and that no one else has. So, I make allot of custom locomotives, and rolling stock that are one of a kind. I go the extra mile to make sure that they get exactly what they want, and then some. I provide on site service, and take care of their every need, when it comes to their Railroad. If they want something that you can't buy, then I'll make it for them. Custom graphics, lighting, sound, paint, buildings, whatever, it doesn't matter. They know that no matter what they want, they will get it. Let me give you a couple of examples. I have this one lady customer, and she loves to decorate her house for every holiday. At Christmas, she has 14 Christmas trees in her house, and a couple of tin solders that are ten feet tall guarding the front gate. For her, I found one of the Christmas egg liners, and put sound in it. It has the sound of sleigh bells as it goes around the track, and plays the song, "Here comes Santa Clause". I didn't ask her if she wanted one, I knew she did. So I made it, and took it over to her house. As soon as she saw it, she fell in love with it, and just had to have it. So now I'm making even more of those for other people. One of my other customers wanted the doors on the front of his engine house to open when he pushed a button. He asked if I could do that, and I told him that I could do better than that. What he ended up getting is an engine house that has automatic doors. When the loco pulls up to the building, the doors automatically open, and when the engine goes inside, they close behind it. When he pulls the engine out. they open, and when he clears the siding, they close. 

I guess what I'm telling you is this. If you can make a quality product, sell it at a fair price, and deliver great customs service. Then I see no reason why you can't make some money in G Scale. There are over 100,000 people in G Scale world wide, and 50,000 of them are right here in the USA. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, you should be able to find customers. 

Loco Lee


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## Fred (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to get off the subject for a minute, Ken R. wrote working for the railroad dulled his interest in modeling. I guess i'm lucky then because I spent 20 years as a train dispatcher and over 22 years as a yardmaster and working those jobs just incrreased my appetite for operating my model trains. 
However in today's market it doesn't seem to be a good idea to own a hobby shop unless you can afford to operate at a loss. More & more hobby shops are going out of business, even some mail order ones as well.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I think Jack Verducci of Garden Railways does it for a living and for fun. He builds layouts for other people. At least that's what I read in the magazine. 

Dave


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't know about making a living at it but to raise some extra dough you could try buying and selling on Ebay but the key is to buy something people want at a low price and resell it at a later date hopefully at a higher price. I have thought about buying items at train shows that need a bit of attention, cleaning, weathering or just fixing them up but it is hit or miss at best plus when you deduct the time you have to track item and then package it plus a trip to post it...... Is it worth it?? 
You won't be able to retire but you might be able to further your train hobby with the money you do make. 
When would the hobby you enjoy become more like work that you don't.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 20 Jan 2011 09:23 AM 
I would much prefer to be able to refer the work to someone who enjoys doing it.
Ah - but how much is the buyer willing to pay? Are you quoting realistic rates for your time? 

Hi Pete,

I started quoting what dealers charge (hoping that the dealers would get the business) but I finally decided that I could not justify (to myself) charging my friends to fix their trains when they were making the effort and spending their money on gas to come and visit. I ended up with a sort of rule that I work free as long as I do the work while they are visiting but I do not accept any work that could not be done while they are here. 

Still, the result is that I am months behind on my own stuff and I often end up working on other's stuff ahead of my own.

Even minor repairs can take hours when the tools have to be located and thought given to how to do something. No one asks me to work for free but I don't feel right charging friends when I am retired.

I ended up with a different rule in that I don't work on stuff that is different from stuff I own because that would involve a learning curve that would have no benefit to me and I don't have that sort of enthusiasm or free time.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Loco Lee on 20 Jan 2011 10:47 AM 

I guess what I'm telling you is this. If you can make a quality product, sell it at a fair price, and deliver great customs service. Then I see no reason why you can't make some money in G Scale. There are over 100,000 people in G Scale world wide, and 50,000 of them are right here in the USA. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, you should be able to find customers. 

Loco Lee 


Very good points. It all depends on the experience, training, interests, equipment and talents that various individuals have.

Not knowing anything about the fellow who started this topic it is hard to know what his skills etc. are. In my case I would not pay me to build anything.









Jerry


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By JackM on 20 Jan 2011 10:45 AM 
Here's an example, for what it's worth. I need some 20 foot and 40 foot containers for my empty intermodal cars. They usually go for about $25 each, plus the dreaded shipping. I'd be happy to buy half a dozen for $15 each, plus reasonable shipping (because they'd just be empty plastic boxes). Could or would you do that? Could you make a few bucks when selling them for $15 each? Would you feel it's worth your time and effort? 

If you said yes to both, let me know - I'm interested. 

JackM 
. Dear Jack:

Coincidentlily we have heard you and thousands of other.

We have made 40 foot containers out of two different materials each coming with a set of sticker sheets (virtual freight companies) and in the second version you will get blank sheets as well so you print on them whatever you like.

Choice A: 40' container out of corigated cardboard $ 9.95
Choice B: 40' out of extruded plastic (polyehtylene) [looks like corrigate cardboard but is out of plastic] $14.95

They ship flat in a package and you fold them up and viola put stickers on and you have your variaty of 40' containers.

On the weekend I am putting up the product on our website


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By PapaPerk on 19 Jan 2011 07:27 PM 
Hello,

Does anyone out there in train world make money with the large scale model railroad hobby? I would like a "hobby job".... a job making some extra spending cash doing something I enjoy.


With that being said what are folks interested in buying or having someone do for them? Some examples are weathering, scratch building, car construction, battery conversions, machining, railroad design, etc. 


Any comments would be great!

Thanks guys. 



If you want to get paid for partaking in our hobby, here's an idea. Document your projects at a minimum of 5 megapixels, write an article, and send it in to _Garden Railways_ Magazine. If the project is worthwhile, they'll pay you for it.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

One of the biggest issues I see now in large scale is getting parts quickly. 

Many manufacturers carry a minimum. 

For example, try to get a USA smoke unit. 

Aristo motor blocks cost more than a complete eggliner at a show. 

Compressors and mogul bell holders are rare finds for lgb models. 

So, get a plastics manufacturing process going and make quality replacement parts that are not 1/20.3 scale, but 1/24 and/or 1/29. 

My friends have waited over a year for some USA and Aristo parts as parts are only made when locos are being made and some runs are 5 years apart. 

Is Marklin even making LGB parts yet?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have read many times that the only way to get a million dollars out of this hobby is to start with two million and if you quit when you have spent half of it you will have your million.


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I think at one time or another many of us have had the same thought. Even when we look at the more established dealers, some have been at it for years to become an overnight success. Someone like http://trainlady.com/ is very good at what she does. Therein lies the secret. You can't just be average, you have to good at the field you choose to look into. Regards, Dennis.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Posted By JackM on 20 Jan 2011 10:45 AM 
Here's an example, for what it's worth. I need some 20 foot and 40 foot containers for my empty intermodal cars. They usually go for about $25 each, plus the dreaded shipping. I'd be happy to buy half a dozen for $15 each, plus reasonable shipping (because they'd just be empty plastic boxes). Could or would you do that? Could you make a few bucks when selling them for $15 each? Would you feel it's worth your time and effort? 

If you said yes to both, let me know - I'm interested. 

JackM 
. 
Dear Jack: 

Coincidentlily we have heard you and thousands of other. 

We have made 40 foot containers out of two different materials each coming with a set of sticker sheets (virtual freight companies) and in the second version you will get blank sheets as well so you print on them whatever you like. 

Choice A: 40' container out of corigated cardboard $ 9.95 
Choice B: 40' out of extruded plastic (polyehtylene) [looks like corrigate cardboard but is out of plastic] $14.95 

They ship flat in a package and you fold them up and viola put stickers on and you have your variaty of 40' containers. 

On the weekend I am putting up the product on our website 



Axel from Train-Li-USA 


I will put my money where my mouth is (after my breakfast danish, anyway). You'll have my order tomorrow. 

The MBAs in the group will recognize this as "find a need and fill it". 

JackM


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The fastest (and perhaps only) way to make a small fortune in the hobby business is..... to start with a large one. 

Your time building toy trains (or much of anything else) is worth about the same to most folks as the Chinaman's at Kader. 

I did model engineering supplies (live steam) for a decade. I don't miss 3AM phone calls from drunks informing me that, "You could buy a pickup" for the cost of a 1" scale live steam Shay...... I don't miss guys taking up 3 days of my time with questions, buying the item off somebody else to save a few $$, THEN expecting me to service it for free...... I don't miss paying for vendor space at a show to hear "Xxxx (Who isn't THERE, and has meh service) has THAT for $X LESS" ..... I don't miss the bank taking my rent money because somebody charged back an item AFTER they received it..... I don't miss bad checks..... I don't miss guys bad mouthing me because it took three weeks to special order something instead of two because the supplier was out of stock..... I don't miss folks letting their kids mess up my stuff then saying, "Why did you have it out if it wasn't for him to play with?".... I don't miss the shoplifters... I don't miss the, "Those used to cost $X (in 1968!).... I don't miss "I (will or wouldn't) give you $5 for it" - on a $100 item!.... (And no, I am NOT making this stuff up! THAT is exactly what dealing with "the public" from the OTHER side of the counter is really like entirely TOO often!!!!!) 

I don't miss the abuse, I don't miss the worry, I don't miss the paperwork, I don't miss supplier doing a disappearing act owing me a few $K worth of stuff I already paid for (Then getting no help from anybody because "That's just a business risk"), I don't miss ending up eating the cost of something lost/destroyed by the shippers because their insurance refused to pay, and I sure s He## don't miss having nothing left at the end of the month after I paid my expenses. 

Still want to do it? Then go in with your eyes WIDE open. 

Or do custom rifles, or fishing stuff instead.... Those guys seem more willing to actually PAY for what they want.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 21 Jan 2011 06:29 PM 
Your time building toy trains (or much of anything else) is worth about the same to most folks as the Chinaman's at Kader.


Hi Mik,

I think that really sums it up better than anything. 

For most people in this hobby the hobby is stretching the limits of their budgets to begin with. I was a sales rep most of my life and I figured out early in my career that I never wanted to sell anything to anyone who was spending their own money. I always wanted to be selling a product that the buyer was spending his employer's money on. I'm retired but if I was not I would never consider working in a hobby dominated by (relatively) low cost Chinese made products.

When we buy products that literally are made with Chinamen's wages (pick your product - almost any product) it stands to reason that our willingness to pay for repairs and accessories for those products will be in direct relationship to the prices we paid for the product itself. Most people will not pay more for a repair or for an accessory than they paid for the Chinese product in the first place.

Conversely many folks in this hobby are retired and on limited incomes so they probably assign values in relation to their own (free) time. 

There are many things I would love to have but there are extremely few that I would be willing and able to pay someone a fair and reasonable price to make for me.

Thanks to the internet and the forums whatever anyone makes will be judged to be too expensive, prototypically incorrect, too low in quality and to have a terrible service department. There are exceptions of course but those (I think) tend to be those who have found a specific niche with sufficient customers who are willing and able to pay a fair price for what they need and want.

Finding that niche is the real challenge.

Jerry


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Great points guys. Very interesting to hear all the opinions. I can't say I disagree with any of them! Hah!


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

I guess I'm not all that negative on your thoughts of a little extra cash doing what you like. This hobby is made of dozens of small manufacturers doing just that. Apparently they have some measure of success. There are vinyl transfer makers, decal suppliers, specialized Bachmann replacement drives, bridges, laser cut kits, yep lot's of cottage industry out there in "G" world. 

Look at this thread as proof...Member express's a desire for a niche product...Small business man steps up and say's "yep, doing it"...Member says "I'll take 'em". Seems like those that "do" indeed succeed on occasion. 

I'll throw out an offer, you determine your desire to answer...I want brass or metal wheels for my Lionel Atlantics (trailing wheels under the cab). I need four sets...I know others have expressed an interest in the same. You state you do "machining". How much would you charge for 4 sets? Axles would need to be insulated...One axle per loco. 

Think outside the box, offer what others do not. Research what others are willing to pay and see if it's worth the effort.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Try here for drivers and trailing truck wheels: 

Mark reponds to email and has a vast listing.... 

http://www.markwoodwheels.co.uk/ 

Michael


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pterosaur on 22 Jan 2011 06:34 AM 
I guess I'm not all that negative on your thoughts of a little extra cash doing what you like. This hobby is made of dozens of small manufacturers doing just that. Apparently they have some measure of success.... 
Think outside the box, offer what others do not. Research what others are willing to pay and see if it's worth the effort. 
Telling the unvarnished truth is not being 'negative'. The jerks make up maybe +/- 5% of your customers in good years. When the economy is bad, the percentage of folks willing to risk jerking you around to try to get more than they want to pay for goes UP, way up. AND, just like as a customer, you remember crappy service, you WILL remember the toxic customers.... especially the ones that cost you money that you couldn't recover.

Yes there are lots of 'cottage industries. For every successful one, there are probably 20 that fail in the first 5 years.... most in the first two. You want positive? Call Pollyanna. Meanwhile, solid advice from somebody who's been there, done that and lost the shirt.
1. Incorporate, otherwise your house is at risk if you fail or get sued.

2. Don't quit your day job, or real life -- but somehow be home to answer the phone/email 24/7...many folks actually DO expect you to wait for them to call and then get back to them instantly. They will hang up on answering machines, and have bought off somebody else by the time you get home from spending a few hours with your children. It's 'unfair', and totally sucks, but we live in an 'instant gratification' society.

3. Web site needs to say what you have in stock, and what you don't, some folks get REAL shirty if they have to wait 3 days, let alone 3 weeks.
4. Shopping cart for same, if they have to call, many won't.
5. Make the first page attractive, but omit fancy sounds and animations and huge files that slow loading. Not everyone is on broadband.
6. Make your contact info easy to find... like a link on EVERY page. If they have to look to ask a question, they will look to your competition.
7. Advertise, advertise, advertise... but do it wisely. A full page ad in GR is probably NOT a good investment at first.
8. Liability Insurance. Need I say more? Some folks ARE too stupid to be trusted to operate a toaster, and will try to blame you for it.

9. If you're shipping something and can't afford to simply eat the ENTIRE cost. Get restricted delivery with signature confirmation.... EVERY time.
10. Credit cards and Paypal are a two edged sword. You pretty much need at least one of them to be in business anymore, but BOTH will reach into your account and just take money THEN spend about 30 days investigating whether the chargeback was legit. Meanwhile, you are out both the product AND the money. 

11. Don't expect to fail, but don't bet the farm, or gamble with the groceries, either. If you can't afford to lose it, don't invest it.

12. Measure 'worth it' in personal satisfaction, not money, and you'll feel better about doing it. Otherwise, turning a hobby in a job is a pretty quick way to kill the fun.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Here's another thought for you..

I considered making and selling models at one point. I decided that IF I were to do something like that, I would NEVER take an order to build a model. Been there, done that, it's a pain in the neck and no fun at all. Looking at a project that you don't care about and have to finish is depressing, when what you really want to do is work on your own stuff.

My solution? I would build whatever tickled my fancy, and sell it when I was done. That way I could work at my own pace and build models that I wanted to build. If I didn't get anything but the cost of materials, I'd still be happy because I had a good time modeling. Ideally, one model would fund the next and so on. Aside from eliminating the stress of deadlines and customers breathing down my neck, it would allow me the freedom to work in other scales, eras, prototypes, etc. than what I would be doing for my layout. Sometimes it's nice to diversify.


With all that said, I haven't actually done it, because I want to spend what little time I have working on my own projects. In theory, however, itshould work out better for the guy who wants to make a couple extra bucks and try something different.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

and there always is the other solution to the short-money problem: 

work for yourself! 
if you build as much as you can for your own layout, you need less money.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

@DKRickman... 
Actually that is something I do frequently with my R/C airplane hobby...With a twist; If I find someone who wants a model built of an airplane I want too, then I have them pay for all the materials (engine too). A good deal for them and a decent deal for me (way easy to build two at once). We both get what we want, I enjoy working on what I want to build...Win/Win. Last project was two 1/3 scale Fokker D-VII's...Mine has since been "re-kitted"! 

I also pay for my stained glass windows and lamps by doing the occasional window for local builders/clients. Not a lot of jobs but enough to keep me busy doing what I enjoy. 
I seriously doubt I could ever go "full time" but there are ways to cut cost and still enjoy yourself. 

Don't quit 'ur day job!


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Here's a possible way to make a few bucks without a lot of stress or risk. Make something that's reasonably easy to duplicate so you can crank one out without feeling a lot of pressure, and you know it'll be what the customer expects. 

Perhaps a kit of something (preferably in 1:29). Say, a simple passenger station that's not much more than four walls, floor and ceiling. Nothing ornate like everyone else sells, something plain like a modern Amtrak box. Cut brick walls from embossed plastic, provide a template for cutting holes to fit the windows you include. Maybe include plexiglass pieces to make the inner structure. Simple instructions to glue the plastic innards, glue on the brick siding, stick on the window frames, etc. Make enough to fill a few orders. If it's a hit, spend an occasional hour or two to maintain a small stock. When you get an order, plop the pieces in a box, stick it in a USPS priority box and drop it off at your nearest P.O. on the way to your day job tomorrow. 

Your main work will be up front, while it's fun - designing, finding suppliers, etc. Once that's over, give PayPal 3.5% of the retail price, and put together a few kits as needed. 

Only remember to make it 1:29. 

JackM


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By JackM on 22 Jan 2011 03:25 PM 
Perhaps a kit of something (preferably in 1:29). Only remember to make it 1:29. 

JackM 




Actually Jack might be onto something. The new Aristo-Craft PCC Trolleys are 1:29 scale (I believe) and to the best of my knowledge all the buildings on the market are larger in scale, wrong time era and more rural than urban in style.

Perhaps a market has just been created by Aristo-Craft for buildings that compliment the new PCC Trolleys.

Maybe something like a simple block (variable store fronts) of simple buildings for a streetcar scene. Many urban buildings are pretty plain (other than window dressing) share walls and are not individual buildings. 

Model Power did a lot with interchangeable building parts that they mixed and matched to produce different models from a minimum of molds.

Another possibility might be something as simple as fillers to convert current large scale track to something resembling streetcar tracks where the track might appear to be laid in concrete (or dirt, grass etc.).

Just a couple of thoughts.

Jerry


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