# New Phoenix Sound board



## Mike M (Jan 3, 2008)

By the end of the year Phoenix will replace the 2k2 with pb9
It will be smaller in size but have more power. Same for the battery it will be smaller but have more power.
Price will also be reduced
Mike


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2008)

Really? this should be interesting, wonder if there going to keep it so it will work with DC as well?
Nick...


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## Mike M (Jan 3, 2008)

Nick it will work the same as the 2k2 it will work with DC DCC and RC
all the same features and more
Mike


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2008)

Cool, Thanks Mike....


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike,
Will the same computer interface software/hardware work with the new board as well?
Thanks,
JimC.


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## Mike M (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim I talked to Phoenix today since I am a dealer and wanted to know all about it. They will be sending all info soon. It will still work the same as the 2k2 as far as all features. The addition is that it will hold more memory,3 watts of power, smaller size, smaller size battery with increased mah.
The price has not yet been confirmed but it should be MSRP of $245 So you see that all the info on it is smaller for less money and more for the bucks
Mike


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

Phoenix has full page ad in latest (December) GR mag (p125). 
For those that don't have the info....I will paraphrase from the ad. No price mentioned.

Dimensions are 2.48"L x 0.876"W x 0.5"H ... now that's small! 

Other features are 16 bit museum Quality Digital Audio; 3W amplifier w/ line level output; 4 analog trigger inputs; smaller 3.6V NiMH battery; onboeard battery charging; reprogrammable

Expanded memory; twice the room for sounds and effects...adding the additional sounds requested.

Hope this may help info wise.

Gary


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## Fr1522 (Jul 24, 2008)

That is exciting


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I understand the PB9 will also have four trigger outlets for track magnets and/or battery R/C.


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## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

That would be good. I am becoming more intrigued with sound and I use track power and would like to try it in one of my locos and see how it goes. Thie new PB9 sounds (pardon the pun) like it would be a good start for me.

Gary


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## David Buckingham (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the sound of this I have about 30 of the 2.2Ks and love them 

this will be even better cheaper and I hope sells very well now I believe Sierra is stopping. 

Dave in England


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I hear that some of these will ship this week.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

A little more info on the PB9. MSRP is $245, and hope to ship some yet this week.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

See what happens when one is not paying attention? I ordered sound for my mallet last Friday, a 2K2 card. That's OK, I'll use it in the mallet until I can get a PB9 then put the 2K2 in one of the three other locomotives that needs sound (4-4-0, RS-3 or LGB mogul). 

Street prices of these things are around that $200 range.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Still pretty pricey for a sound unit. Later RJD


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

Sometimes you get what you pay for.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, but as a counterpoint, in the world of electronics, memory and cpu's are getting cheaper, so sometimes you should be getting more for your dollar as time goes by! 

One of the few things in life that is actually getting cheaper. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Not in this case. Still over priced for a sound system. Maybe if they keep getting stiffer competition maybe they will bring the price down to a reasonable price. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I have one Phoenix card and 4 QSI cards. The Phoenix sounds are maybe a little better, and their quality control and customer service is great, but it's really pricey and I can't see how they can compete. With QSI I get excellent sound, and remote control of direction, speed, sound, and lights in one card. And it's under $140. I can't see why I'd pay sixty dollars more for a card that does much less. I was hoping Phoenix would price this new card to be competitive, but it doesn't look like they did. But maybe it has features I haven't seen yet


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

The QSI card is for either DCC or AirWire receiver, right? If this is the case, the Phoenix card for DCC is the P5. There is no need for this new card in that case.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

The 2K2 has been replaced by this new system at a lower price. They seem to being doing quite well at the price level they are at. Seems many will pay for quality, reliability, versatility and service.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 12/16/2008 6:05 PM
The P5 has been replaced by this new system. They seem to being doing quite well at the price level they are at. Seems many will pay for quality, reliability, versatility and service. 

No. That is incorrect. The new board, the PB9 is replacing the 2K2. The P5 is used for DCC applications. The PB9 and 2K2 are used for traditional track power and battery power applications.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

can they still get parts for the 2K2?


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Del you are correct, I got my systems mixed up. The rest stands. I will edit previous coment.

The 2k2's will still be serviced.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Del. 
You are sort of correct. 
There is to be a "new" P5 that will eliminate the P5T and have four triggerable functions. 
I am waiting for a test sample to evaluate for plug in compatibility with RCS battery powered BASIC series and EVO B series ESC's.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually some more correction is needed, the 2k2 and and the PB9 are full fledged DCC decoders that also work on DC (track or battery) and have input triggers for a few functions. 

Regards, Greg


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 12/16/2008 3:59 PM
Not in this case. Still over priced for a sound system. Maybe if they keep getting stiffer competition maybe they will bring the price down to a reasonable price. Later RJD

I absolutely have to agree with RJ. $200 is very high for the relatively simple technology you are buying. Go into Best Buy (or Circuit City etc ) and you can buy a Nikon Coolpix 8mp camera with a 2.5" LCD for $99 (I just did last weekend). You can buy a 22" flatscreen LCD 720P HDTV for $229. You can buy any number of plug-in complex function computer boards (for example - a Creative PCI Express Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Professional Series Sound Card) for less than $150. The Phonenix price is not justified by the technology being offered, especially if you measure that against other consumer electronics. It's just a small printed circuit card with a few standard components mounted on it. 
Maybe/probably their sales volume is just too low to be able to sufficiently spread out their design, advertising, and other overhead costs. THAT would be the only reason for such a high price. 
Sierra and QSI are the only other serious competitors and they aren't any less expensive. Dallee is a weak 3rd (worse by some opinions). SmallScale is very limited. So we have a true oligopoly in this market, which is not advantageous for the consumers.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

QSI QSI QSI QSI $127,00 Nuff Said The Regal try one you'll like it see comparison between phoenix and qsi at http://blueregal.angelfire.com/ click on you tube look at video's and hear even the Latest in my Mallet with the One to One custom sound system installed from Eugene Oregon. The Regal
Any questions email me.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Al McEvoy on 12/26/2008 9:51 AM
Posted By aceinspp on 12/16/2008 3:59 PM


Maybe/probably their sales volume is just too low to be able to sufficiently spread out their design, advertising, and other overhead costs. THAT would be the only reason for such a high price. 




That is exactly the reason. How many TV and cameras do you think there are in this world compared to the number of garden railroads? Not to mention the fact that large consumer electronics companies get tremendous price breaks on components purchased in huge volumes and have very competitive manufacturing systems.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you ever stopped to think that the cost may not be tied to the harware, it may be what is stored within it?


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Steve - Please elaborate on "what is stored within it" and how that drives the cost.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Al McEvoy on 12/26/2008 2:22 PM


Steve - Please elaborate on "what is stored within it" and how that drives the cost.



May I answer that? 

I am a computer programmer. I get paid for writing softare. The only way to obtain the money to pay me is to charge the end user for that software. The cost of the software can sometimes greatly exceed the cost of the hardware... not because I get big bucks per hour but because it takes me a long time to create, code (write), debug, document, and prepare the software for sale. The same can be true for the sounds data that is stored in the "chip".

I have spent hundreds of hours cleaning up a short sound file for a commercial application. You don't just record the sound and copy the data to a memory chip. You have to clean the file of hiss and pops, normalize the amplitude for optimum output on the final hardware, filter out or clip unwanted sounds and frequencies. It can be quite tedius to do, even with a high speed computer and software that does the Fourier Transforms and such. New software and faster hardware are improving the output and reducing the amount of time required to do this.

BUT... It ain't cheap! In a small market (garden trains) there is not much product volume sales to recoup the development costs and that makes the single unit prices quite high. It they sold this stuff in the millions of units, the price could drop dramatically.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Al, the sound files and the firmware are stored within the hardware.

Taking a recording of a live sound and then processing it to come out of a digital device and a speaker in a less than optimum conditions, so it sounds to you like the original is no easy task. While part of it is cut and dry science, there is the 'art' side that some individuals have the knack for while many don't.

Additionally, just where does the original sound come from, in the case of steam locomotives just where do you get the original sound from? This could also be the case with older diesels too. Then, once you've found a source for the original sound do you wait and take your chances recording what's available to the general public, or do you arrange for a private recording session where you'll have the most control over the recording conditions. How much does it cost to fire up and run a particular steam locomotive or diesel? What if the only source is a previous recording made by someone else. Is there a copyright involved, are there on going royalty or a one time fee?

Once the work is done it becomes a simple matter of loading the file into the device, but all the time, knowledge and equipment required to get to that point costs money. Then you have to add in the different types, mono & poly phonic, then there's the ever advancing of hardware technology, and what worked in one digital device may just not cut it in a new device and then you're back to the beginning all over again.

Then there's the firmware that has to be written to respond to the desires of the user and do what is requested in the manner that's expected.


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Phoenix is shipping the new pb9. I got my first supply order in today. A quick run through the manual indicates everything is straightforward, though there are some formatting mistakes - the diagram titles appear at the bottom of the preceding page for page 21 and following. The board is roughly 2/3rds the size of the previous 2k2, uses a nice combo of screw terminals, with sockets for dedicated functions such as program jack , battery and speaker. 
Lower cost, smaller size, smaller battery, easier install . I am looking forward to a few installs in the next couple days, should be great. 

Jonathan/EMW


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## David Buckingham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jonathan 
We will all be interested in what you find Have fun 

Dave 

Happy New Year


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## Mike M (Jan 3, 2008)

I have installed 5 already and there is a great improvement. Sound out put is greater. Install is easy and the smaller size helps. I only installed in dc operations at this time for my customers. Looks to be a winner
Mike


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

With street prices on the P9 at $220, and the P5 at $160, I would have to say there is no argument with Bill's statement, unless you REALLY want to spend an extra $60. 

Now, if you need "trigger" inputs, I believe you have to add an accessory board to the current P5, which brings it's total to $210, which make it a push today, but I have heard there will be a new P5 with the trigger inputs built in. 

Nice to see people updating their hardware, but as QSI rolls out their updated sound files (that's in progress right now), they will remain a stiff competitor. Also, there is rumor that QSI might add trigger inputs, since $140 is still cheaper than the Phoenix if you used the QSI as a sound only board. 

I think competition is great! 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I can understand sound recording costs, sound production costs and software costs. But here's QSI, with very high quality sound and power in one card, and it's under $140, significantly cheaper than the phoenix. AND I'd have to buy a decoder to run the loco. So we're talking about a minimum $150 dollar difference. Is the Phoenix software better? Not that I have seen. Are the sounds better? Phoenix might be a little better--I have both and Phoenix might have a slight edge. But not $150 bucks worth of edge. 

It's hard for me to see why I would want the Phoenix board, when I can have the same sound and speed and direction control for less.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg when will they have the new sound files available?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't know, I have been bugging Josh at TTX... I guess they are processing the HO stuff first. Emails will help bump the priority up. 

I'm patient, I know it will get there, and upgrading the firmware/sound files are free, so I'll wait. 

There are so many other unique features that the QSI has that I'm very happy. One of these is the BEMF influenced changes in sound, the sounds are changed in "timbre" by the actual load on the loco, not just the voltage on the track. The controllable doppler shift in the whistle is another fun thing. I also use the BEMF chuff synchronization and get excellent results. 

Regards, Greg


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