# When were earliest boxcab electrics put into service?



## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Header says it all! 

Les


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

The first ones seemed to have been built around 1923 and then toured for demonstration purposes. 

The earliest I can find for "in service" was one for Central Railroad of New Jersey in 1924. 


Good sources: 
http://home.att.net/~berliner-ultrasonics/boxcabs.html 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel94.html 
http://sbiii.com/jfcageir/ageir.html


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bruce: 

Thanks much. I've always had a 'thing' for those ugly contraptions. Alas, they won't work for my era. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif 

Thanks for the sites. I'll go educate myself some more. 

Les


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

Hehe...they do kind of grow on you, don't they? 

I just had to convert the "Dizzy" to one awhile back...


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually Pacific Electric had their box cabs in about 1914-15. This is the 1600 Series originally built by Baldwin Locomotive and later built in the P.E. Shops in Torrance, California. This photo was taken at the Orange Empire Railroad Museum in Perris, California. 








I have this engine in 1/8th scale running on 7.5 inch gauge track. Weighs about 500 lbs. and is roughly 52 inches long. Runs on 2 RV batteries, two motors in each truck.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

This photo is the actual 1600 Series Baldwin Electric at Orange Empire Railroad Museum. This is closer to my 1/8 scale model, minus the the "heavy weathering". This engine dates to about 1915.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Electric boxcabs date back to 1893 - 










http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/boxcabel.html#ge1-mrr1 


Pennsy had some ugly battery powered rail tractors first built in 1912 - 










http://prr.railfan.net/RubberTiredSwitchers.html 

Their A6's (internal combustion - diesel) were first built in the late 20's 










http://home.att.net/~Berliner-Ultrasonics/boxcbprr.html#390567a6 

The A6 is primarily what I based my little boxcab on - 










-Brian


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## Jeff Livingston (Jan 2, 2008)

I recently discovered correspondance in the Bishop Museum between the Oahu Railway and Land Company, Hawaiian Electric, Westinghouse and Baldwin Locomotive Works dated late 1916 regarding proposals for electrification of at least a part of the OR&L mainline. Did BLW ever build narrow gauge box or steeple cabs?


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## Bryan Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

There is Two pennsylvania Electric locomotive boxcab. 









On the left is 1:25 scale boxcab 1-D-1 wheel type PRR class "L6" no.7825, on the right is 1:32 scale boxcab 2-B-2 wheel type PRR class "O1" No.7857. 
both is all Scratchbuilt of Wood of main body and frame. I use LGB pantograph, LGB motor block, and LGB metal wheel for pilot wheel. 

But real prototype old pennsylvania electric locomotive never survived ,it was scrapped


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Yeah, they do. Someday I may build one, another post tells me they were on rails in 1893, which is pushing the end of my timeframe, 1850-99. Still, they're just too neat to ignore. 

Thanks for the pics. 

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

500# you say? Yo. Thanks for the pic. 

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Brian, 

Thanks for the pixes. That's a nice model. What scale is it? 

I should have been more specific about overhead electric vs diesel. I passed on an O gage catenary(?) (overhead power pickup) for nothing the other day. Later I found out what they cost. Sigh. I think someday I might actually build one. It'll be a long time, yet. 

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bryan, 

Thanks for the pic. Why, if I may ask, did you build in two different scales? Just curious. 

Les


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2008)

Bryan Smith, 

do you have more pictures of these?


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 07/03/2008 3:16 PM
Brian, 
Thanks for the pixes. That's a nice model. What scale is it? 
I should have been more specific about overhead electric vs diesel. I passed on an O gage catenary(?) (overhead power pickup) for nothing the other day. Later I found out what they cost. Sigh. I think someday I might actually build one. It'll be a long time, yet. 
Les




Thanks Les. I'll call it 1:29. The body is from an Aristo track cleaning car (same as the bobber caboose). 

-Brian


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## Bryan Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

here more photos of Pennsy Electric locomotive boxcab. 

1:32 scale boxcab 2-B-2 wheel type PRR class "O1" No.7857 on curve track around Christmas tree. 

















on the left 1:25 scale boxcab "L6" no.7825, on the right is 1:32 scale boxcab "O1" No.7857 on curve. 









1:25 scale boxcab 1-D-1 wheel type PRR class "L6" no.7825 on the curve track. 




































You can see under detail i design idea for tight curve track. I remove one LGB motor block you can see inside wood frame! but L6 i use twin LGB motor block to screw to the wood frame. 









I unscrew carbody and frame you can see detail. O1 is single LGB motor


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bryan, 

Thank you for the great pictures. Thanks for taking the thing apart so I could see the framework. I really like that engine. Someday... I'm going to build one. 

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

I don't think the battery tractor is ugly. I think it would be an awesome piece to have in a layout yard someplace. I have to assume they ran between the rails to move cars? Or straddled one rail? I've never seen anything like this before. How is it supposed to do its trick? It escaped my attention the first reply. Do you have a website, or should I just Google 'battery tractor'? 

Les


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 07/03/2008 7:29 PM
I don't think the battery tractor is ugly. I think it would be an awesome piece to have in a layout yard someplace. I have to assume they ran between the rails to move cars? Or straddled one rail? I've never seen anything like this before. How is it supposed to do its trick? It escaped my attention the first reply. Do you have a website, or should I just Google 'battery tractor'? 
Les 




Here it is - http://prr.railfan.net/RubberTiredSwitchers.html 

I often use ugly as a compliment when it comes to critters. 

There seem to be a few variations on the tires over the years from solid ones that had a grove in them to run on the rails to standard truck type tires. 

-Brian


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

thanks, Bryan, very interesting. 
with your system, do they run on R1?


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## Bryan Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

yes both can run on R1 curve track


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

These railroad systems come to mind in early electric loco operation. 

In London the City and South London Railway, which was a subway system, had small locos hauling coaching stock (which had no windows - there was nothing to see  They were introduced in 1889. There is one preserved at the London Transport Museum, Covent Garden, London UK. It was a lethal type of loco to operate having exposed electrical notching up contacts - one false move and ...............w00t 

The Central London Railway, another tube line (subway) at a deeper level, commenced operations in 1900 with 48ton locos hauling much better and slightly larger stock. These locos were unsprung and caused a multitude of problems due to the vibrations to rail, stock and real estate above ground plus the discomfort to passengers. They were replaced after a short career by cars with motor rooms at the end of certain cars. 

Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway had a steeple cab by 1912 which rain either on catenary or third rail. There was a similar battery powered loco. 
The North Eastern Railway (England) had an electric loco by 1905. 

Looking westwards I am reminded of the electric boxcabs and steeple cabs of the Milwaukee Road 1915 - 1917 period. 

This is from memory so I hope it is correct. Anyway a search engine will find further details for anyone interested.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Alan, 

Thank you for the info. If I take the 1893 date for the Pennsy, and I don't know if that's accurate, they'll work on my layout. If not, I'll have to lie. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif 

Les


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

How about this?

First Electric Freight Locomotive


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 07/05/2008 12:13 AM
How about this?

First Electric Freight Locomotive




Fantastic! That pushes the time frame back at least five years. That makes it a 'go' for me. I dunno (yet) where I'll squish it in, but light rail is my second favorite thing after the old teakettles. 

Thank you for taking time to reply./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif 

Les


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2008)

Les, 
Heck man I did not know you like these! And I thought I knew you. 
Toad


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Toad, 

You betcha I like those boxcabs. They just won't work for my layout era. But I knew--sorta--that there was electrified freight light-rail before 1900, I just wasn't sure when. Soo, when different folks came up with different pixes, it began to look like, sure enough, the ol' Pig River SL was going to get a light-rail line. Not a trolley. 

I don't know what gauge, at the moment. So far I'm planning 18", 24" and 45mm, and 24/45 dual gage all scaled to 20.3. 

My thinking at the moment is, the light rail would be best at the division point, where an electric generator would logically be located. (In those days, if you remember, they only used DC, and you can't shove DC through a wire for any great distance at high power levels. Line loss is terrible.) The overhead wires really interest me, that is, the challenge of building 'em and making 'em work. It could be that an electric switcher might work out in the main yard (45mm). Or, since coal would have to come down the Mississippi, the very same LR system could function as its own supplier, work the coal yard which would feed the division's erecting bldg, smithy, and machine shop, as well as a line out into the boonies. 

I dunno. It's fun to think about./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/satisfied.gif Do you happen to know if there's a 'common-est' gauge for light rail? 

Les


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2008)

Truth of the matter I am not one into light rail. Thinking puts my head asking what was the most common rail they used has to say it some where and might dig up other stuff you need. 
Messrs. Armour & Co. http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/h?ammem/paprfield([email protected](edmp+1013)) 
Cool reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramway_tracks 

Toad


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Les, 
Further to my post about the City & South London electric loco here is a link: 
http://www.ltmcollection.org/museum.../collection&IXcollection=vehicles&_IXFIRST_=9 
Delve into the digger deeper tab 

I the link does not work, it should do I pasted it into the browser and it worked OK, just look for Mather & Platt electric loco No. 13 of 1890


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

B&O's Howard Street Tunnel Electrification dates from 1895:


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## Ted_Roy (Jan 2, 2008)

The two Baldwin pictures are very interesting.. The first is one of two surviving Baldwin Class B-1 interurban engines, the second is either the first run Class B for the Pacific Electric or an almost exact copy homebuilt by their shops when they did not want to pay BLW. Ironically they used GE control systems in the homebuilts instead of the Westinghouse units that the BLW units used. 

Ted.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted, 

I believe you are referring to the Baldwin pictures I posted. Yes, I believe both engines that I posted were actually built by Pacific Electric in their Torrance, CA shops. They used a couple of Baldwin locos as prototypes and copied the rest. Saved them some money!


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## on30gn15 (May 23, 2009)

Bruce Chandler said:


> The first ones seemed to have been built around 1923 and then toured for demonstration purposes.
> 
> The earliest I can find for "in service" was one for Central Railroad of New Jersey in 1924.
> 
> ...


*S. Berliner, III* has changed his URL, boxcabs page is now 
http://sbiii.com/boxcabs.html




> Updated: 21 Mar 2016; 14:45 ET
> [Page converted 07 Mar 2010;
> _original AT&T Worldnet Website begun 30 May 1996.]_
> Update info on the top on ALL pages for your convenience.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> *S. Berliner, III* has changed his URL, boxcabs page is now


Not surprising as that thread is from 2008 !!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, at least we are now updated ha ha!

A great resource still.

Greg - 793


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

Canadian National Railroad was the first to operate a Diesel Electric (Box Cab) locomotive in regular service in North America. It was a two unit locomotive. Its existence is well documented.


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Old thread but some of those pics looks to me more like steeplecabs than box cabs. 

Anyway, RhB was running box motors back in the early 1900s (1913). 

Ge 2/4 and Ge 4/6 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaetian_Railway_Ge_2/4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhaetian_Railway_Ge_4/6


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## on30gn15 (May 23, 2009)

Now, just before 9 am two days later, I haven't a clue how I crossed paths with this thread so long after its beginning; or if or what I was looking for when I did.


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