# Contemplating Live Steam



## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

I just finished watching the videos from the Fall Steamup, and I have a couple of questions. Obviously the larger engines are able to pull a long line of cars, but what about a Ruby or a Dora? I chose these two, because they are affordable beginner steam engines, and because my layout has small radius curves. Also, because of their small size, would I be able to radio control the throttle on them?


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

The two you mention are often used to get started in live steam. They will handle 4' curves.

http://www.reindeerpass.com/RUBY-5-Live-Steam-Locomotive-Deluxe-040.aspx


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## Joe Johnson (Jan 2, 2008)

Both the Ruby and the Dora are small rod engines and won't take grades very well. A flat layout will be as important as the radius of the curves.

That said as an active member of Steam Alcoholics Anonymous I am required to tell you that what you are contemplating can be very addictive. I too started with a small engine but that lead to an 2-8-2 and then to building kits. I now find I'm looking at lathes and other machine tools which has to be the final phase......


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Dora and Ruby are both neat little engines which can provide lots of fun. 

The Dora is smaller, and geared so it runs a little slower which is good on small layouts. Fitting R/C on the throttle will be tricky, but should be possible if you are clever enough... Mine is still manual. 

Ruby is a bit larger and is a more conventional engine. She will tend to run fast. As with Dora, the cab space is tight so R/C is tricky but many have been done... My modified ruby is R/C. The R/C does tame the engine for small layouts and hills and dips. It also adds to the "play value" allowing you to stop at stations, switch cars and other such things.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

I recommend you obtain a copy of "Starting in Steam," a book to help live steam new comers. It will answer many of your questions. It is available at:
http://www.steamup.com/starting/
or call 607-642-8119. The digital version is $4.95 and the hard copy version is $9.95.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Mike,

The ruby is a good starter, its larger and will allow RC plus longer run times than the Dora. Its also easier to fire and run. Another option for a geared loco is the Regner easy line. They are single cylinder geared locos and all run well and slow plus handle 2' radius plus grades without needing RC. Shawn (snowshoe on youtube) has a lot of videos of the regners and the Accucraft Forney running on smaller tracks. Recently he build a new larger track with 5' radius.

the Regners can be seen here: http://www.thetraindepartment.com/regner/regner-easy-line/

And the Accucraft options here: http://www.thetraindepartment.com/accucraft-live-steam/accucraft-1-20-3/

Also don't forget about Roundhouse, they have a nice starter loco the Sammie. Its a slide valve loco but with slip eccentric, meaning the RC direction cant be done as the loco has to be rolled one wheel revolution in the direction you want. But its their only American type low end loco. The other being the SRRL 24 a larger 2-6-2 

http://www.thetraindepartment.com/roundhouse/basic-series/

Also a good book is the Passion for Steam, its got not only how to run but the different engine types explained and how they all work. Plus it has a huge amount of reviews of many different engines. Written by Mark of Garden railways. It is more expensive than the Steam in the garden book but it is well worth it.

http://www.thetraindepartment.com/books/


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a Dora which is fitted with a throttle servo so it can handle hills more easily. The batteries and r/c are in a trailing car, but could have been fitted in the body (I took mine off for various reasons.)

Not sure the Ruby can provide longer run times than the Dora, but Jason should know! Either is a good engine to start with - but do get and read the "Starting in Steam" book as it has lots of useful information about what else you need, how to maintain your steamer, etc.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Treeman said:


> The two you mention are often used to get started in live steam. They will handle 4' curves.
> 
> http://www.reindeerpass.com/RUBY-5-Live-Steam-Locomotive-Deluxe-040.aspx


 That's exactly what I have, and that was my main concern, I was worried that the curves would be too tight, and that the engine would roll off the track as it hit the curve



Joe Johnson said:


> Both the Ruby and the Dora are small rod engines and won't take grades very well. A flat layout will be as important as the radius of the curves.
> 
> That said as an active member of Steam Alcoholics Anonymous I am required to tell you that what you are contemplating can be very addictive. I too started with a small engine but that lead to an 2-8-2 and then to building kits. I now find I'm looking at lathes and other machine tools which has to be the final phase......


 In the Beginners forum, I have a thread called "Modeling in Foamboard" If you look at post #27, the 4th pic, there's a grade of 1" in 24 ft, so it's not much of a grade



Phippsburg Eric said:


> Dora and Ruby are both neat little engines which can provide lots of fun.
> 
> The Dora is smaller, and geared so it runs a little slower which is good on small layouts. Fitting R/C on the throttle will be tricky, but should be possible if you are clever enough... Mine is still manual.
> 
> Ruby is a bit larger and is a more conventional engine. She will tend to run fast. As with Dora, the cab space is tight so R/C is tricky but many have been done... My modified ruby is R/C. The R/C does tame the engine for small layouts and hills and dips. It also adds to the "play value" allowing you to stop at stations, switch cars and other such things.


 Eric, I like the idea of being able to start and stop at a station, or being able to switch cars at a yard, but in doing so, it will probably cut down the run time of the engine. Is it possible to hook up a water tender to either of these models?



weaverc said:


> I recommend you obtain a copy of "Starting in Steam," a book to help live steam new comers. It will answer many of your questions. It is available at:
> http://www.steamup.com/starting/
> or call 607-642-8119. The digital version is $4.95 and the hard copy version is $9.95.


 I will definitely be looking into this book, and the one mentioned by Jason. I've been curious about live steam ever since stumbling upon a YouTube video of one.



Kovacjr said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> The ruby is a good starter, its larger and will allow RC plus longer run times than the Dora. Its also easier to fire and run. Another option for a geared loco is the Regner easy line. They are single cylinder geared locos and all run well and slow plus handle 2' radius plus grades without needing RC. Shawn (snowshoe on youtube) has a lot of videos of the regners and the Accucraft Forney running on smaller tracks. Recently he build a new larger track with 5' radius.
> 
> ...


 Thank you for providing addition engine options. I knew about Accucraft, but not the Regners, or the Roundhouse options.



Pete Thornton said:


> I have a Dora which is fitted with a throttle servo so it can handle hills more easily. The batteries and r/c are in a trailing car, but could have been fitted in the body (I took mine off for various reasons.)
> 
> Not sure the Ruby can provide longer run times than the Dora, but Jason should know! Either is a good engine to start with - but do get and read the "Starting in Steam" book as it has lots of useful information about what else you need, how to maintain your steamer, etc.


 Thanks for the info on the Dora, it looks so tiny, and didn't look like it had much extra space.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike;

As others have already noted, live steam can be a slippery slope. I started with the Roundhouse Millie. Since I still run using manual control, the slip eccentric system did not bother me, but I can see that it would inhibit switching.










Some of the more elaborate Regner models do have a reversing lever. Mine is loosely based on the DeWinton quarry locomotives. The Regner model designation is Chaloner.










I have decided that I like Roundhouse locomotives best. My second Roundhouse is based on a WWI trench locomotive built by ALCO for the British War Department. It also has a reversing lever.










I am trying to stay with short wheelbase locomotives. All of my locomotives will negotiate LGB R3 curves (8 foot diameter/4 foot radius).

Best of luck with your first steamer,
David Meashey


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Flea said:


> I like the idea of being able to start and stop at a station, or being able to switch cars at a yard, but in doing so, it will probably cut down the run time of the engine. Is it possible to hook up a water tender to either of these models?


The easiest way to add water to one of these miniature boilers is though a "Goodall valve", which replaces the boiler filler cap, and allows you to pump water in from a specially-fitted pump bottle. I highly recommend the Goodall valve and bottle from The Train Department with quick-disconnect fittings, they're much easier and more pleasant to use than the standard plain Goodall valve fittings. 

The only problem with adding water to a Ruby boiler is that there is no sight glass to tell you how much (or, more importantly, how little) water is in there. If I remember correctly, the Ruby will generally run out of gas before water anyway. It would be relatively simple to fit a larger fuel tank, but then you would want to add a sight glass (a fairly complex operation on a Ruby, but it has been done) or an electronic water level detection system (not sure if these are still available, but they were at one point) to avoid running dry.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike:
I started with a Roundhouse engine as they are very easy to operate and forgiving of typical beginner mistakes...it was the perfect choice for me. Not sure of the difference in price between one of the ones you mentioned and the Roundhouse Sammie that Jason suggested, but probably worth the cost even if you had to save up a bit...

Welcome to the live steam hobby...as others have said it can become addicting (I've got 3 scratchbuilding loco projects on the bench!)

Best Regards,
Cliff


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

There's obviously pro's and con's to the different choices, but right now, if I want to get a feel for steam, I'm thinking I might want to start out with a more affordable engine. From what I can see on "the Train Department " page, the Dora is $449, Ruby is $539, Regner "Max" is $362, and Sammie is $860. I'm kicking myself in the butt for not picking up a Ruby kit I saw at a local hobby show last year for $409.

Well, winter is finally here, so hopefully we get lots of snow, and more snow, means more OT, lol


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

You got some great advice so far. I would look at the Regner Easy Line. Like Jay said check out some of my videos. It will give you an idea what each can do. https://www.youtube.com/user/07461snowshoe/videos I really like the easy line engines because they are geared, can handle smaller curves, handle grades well and have a decent run time. You can some as kits but my feeling as a first timer get one already together. I have seen a few people get kits and get frustrated. I have the Accucraft Forney and added RC to it. It does well on smaller curves and can easily fit RC in it.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I'm in the process of building my first steamer, a Roundhouse Fowler kit. So I can't speak to the experience of operating any of the models.

I'd suggest waiting and saving a bit more to get what you really want, with the features you want, rather than try to stick to a specific budget. Your model may well last a lifetime, so one you'll enjoy for years is the one to get.

Personally, I favor the aesthetics of outside valve gear, as it offers the view of the complex moving parts. In the Roundhouse range this is Katie or Billie, and Regner makes Betty and Emma. I think all of these models will handle R1 - though I expect R3 or up would make them a lot happier.

Note with large scale models, they are not all to the same scale. If that's important, or you have an era or region you wish to model, selecting a locomotive in the correct scale may matter to you. Much LGB is 1:22.5, meter gauge prototype, and many of Regner's models are as well. Standard gauge live steam is 1:32, though there is less support for US freight and passenger cars in this scale. 1:20.3 is US three-foot gauge; Accucraft make a lot of models in this scale, but outside of the smallest they'd need larger radius curves. Roundhouse models are technically 1:19 scale and meant for 32 mm track, where they represent two-foot narrow gauge lines (however the models also run on 45 mm G track.)

Roundhouse and Regner models that I mentioned are intended to fit R/C. You would be able to fit an axle pump to replenish water from a tender.

I'd really weigh the cost for moving up to a model with Walschert or other "full" valve gear, sight glass, pressure gauge, water fill system. If possible, try to get to a show where you can examine the models in person, see them run for yourself. Look at the precision of the manufacturing in steam regulator and gas control, valve and cylinder components, etc.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks to all for the advice and information on these steamers. I've started watching your videos Shawn, and I'm sure I'll have some more questions, I do appreciate the response here, and as was mentioned in another thread here, Where the Heck is the "Like" button!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike
Check on ebay, etc for some second hand offerings. For example an Aster Frank S, Mogul or Schools can be added to list for consideration.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Charles said:


> Mike
> Check on ebay, etc for some second hand offerings. For example an Aster Frank S, Mogul or Schools can be added to list for consideration.


I don't think that the Aster Schools will like the 4' radius curves!
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Some of the entry level engines like the Ruby, you may outgrow very quickly. The larger engines like consolidations etc. require near perfect track to operate well. Live steam engines prefer track without grades so remote control is best if you do have grades. A geared locomotive will handle the grades better and not run like a scalded cat so more suitable if you don't wish to add remote control unless you like to run faster than the locomotive to control it. 

Andrew


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

I would like a geared loco, but it's something I'll have to wait on. My layout is mostly flat, with a very slight grade, as mentioned in post #8, 1 inch in 24ft.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike,
Many of the smaller locos, including the Accucraft two cylinder Shay, will indeed run on tighter radius track. Witness my portable layout with LGB 1100 and 1500 curves...


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Nothing wrong with a Ruby, its what started my addiction. I had a Ida, a long discontinued saddle tank version. Replaced by the Ruby 5. 

It looks nothing like it did when new as I built it into a DRG Montezuma 2-4-0 and a small tender.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

David Leech said:


> I don't think that the Aster Schools will like the 4' radius curves!
> Cheers,
> David Leech, Delta, Canada


Well, David...I only read the first post:
"I just finished watching the videos from the Fall Steamup, and I have a couple of questions. Obviously the larger engines are able to pull a long line of cars, but what about a Ruby or a Dora? I chose these two, because they are affordable beginner steam engines, and because my layout has small radius curves. Also, because of their small size, would I be able to radio control the throttle on them?"

As such I was not fully informed.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

A Ruby up and down a 4% grade without remote control? 
Put your sneakers on gents and perhaps the asbestos baseball mitts for the 4ft curves... ;-)

Andrew


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Nice video, Tom, and beautiful engine Jason.

How do you calculate grade? I thought it was 1 inch in 10 ft = 1% grade


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

One inch in a 100 inch run equals 1%


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

10ft = 120 inch, 24 ft = 288 inch, I've got a grade of 1 inch in 24 ft, that should be less than a half % grade. I'm trying to figure out how Andrew came up with a 4% grade?

My battery powered loco's don't strain on it.

Thanks Mike


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Ahh, One inch in 24ft. I read as one inch in 24 inches. My mistake. It is indeed only a 'slight grade'.

Andrew


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

I have seen a Roundhouse Sammy pull amazing loads. Weight was even added to the engine to press it firmer to the track for more traction so even more cars could be added. A true little beast of an engine. In my opinion, well worth the extra cash over a Ruby. Art had a video of it ......maybe he can find it. It is hard to beat Roundhouse quality.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

I think I'm looking at the Regner Max for a first purchase, but I would really like the Class A Climax. However, until I get some remodeling done around the house, there won't be any large purchases made, per the station Mistress, lol


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

No Longer contemplating, I know I want a live steamer, and have read 2poor's thread "Wanting A Live Steamer", and the funds are there for a small inexpensive steamer.

Rexcadral, while perusing some YouTube videos of the Dora and Sammie, I ran across your "Sunday Afternoon Steam", very informative, thanks. 

So the choices are narrowed down to Dora or Sammie. Thought about the Regner Lumberjack, but not sure about doing a kit, despite watching videos from Snowshoe.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

No comparison in my mind,
Dora's runs will be short. Sammie is the way to go! Yes, half again as much money but it's twice the locomotive in my opinion. You won't be sorry choosing Sammie. I'm sure others will chime in about his virtues. 
Welcome to live steam,
Tom


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

If you get your heart set on a Regner Lumberjack, excellent engine btw, and get stuck building the kit. I would gladly finish it for you or even build it for you. I built my friends Lumberjack for him, along with the Regner Shay they used to offer. Sammie would still be my suggestion for the most for the money. Spring for the options you can get seperatly and you have an excellent engine with the backing of what I would consider the #1 brand in small scale live steam. And Sammie has slide valve cylinders, which wear in and not wear out like piston valve cylinders can. I am over in Indiana, and on the last weekend of the month there will be a NMRA train show in Noblesville, IN. This is just north of Indianapolis and our local steam group will have thier portable layout set up. You can see engines running and your welcome to run my two steamers. If you want to make the trip, I will bring my friends Lumberjack along, he is already wanting me to get his Shay ready. I will have my Roundhouse Argyll and Merlin Mayflower there to run. One is RC and one is not, so you can try both and see what you like. Mike


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks Tom, I'm leaning more toward the Sammie at this point, been watching a lot of videos today and am impressed with the Sammie's power, watched it pull a 10 car train.

Mike, I appreciate the invite, but, unfortunately I'm on call throughout the winter, as I run the snow and ice control. Maybe I can catch something in the spring or summer.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I understand being on call Mike. Your always welcome to come run steam on my garden railway during the summer, I should have RC in my RH Argyll by then. With my line being nearly ground level, RC on anything that isnt geared is mandatory. I have run manual control on a RH Lady Anne ok on a raised line but would never want to on ground level. RH engines are designed for RC control, although Sammie would be throttle only being a slip eccentric valve gear engine. The RH kits are also fun to build, not overly hard. A 5 doller butane pencil torch from Harbor Freight Tools made soldeing the bodywork a snap. Jay over at The Train Dept said now is the best time to buy anything from Roundhouse with the exchange rate being the best its been in years. But I would act fast if you can, no telling what will happen once the Pres elect takes over. Here is a pic of my Merlin Mayflower I just got myself. A Roundhouse Billy or Katie would be similar in size and cost around $1300 RTR and just under 1K in kit form. Mike


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Mike, are all roundhouse engines slip eccentric, or just the Basic Models?

This is something to think about, because I have a switch yard.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Just basic models, the classic range has simplified Walscherts, like pictured here on my Argyll with one of my custom Autism cars. With the Walscherts, you can control both direction and speed. You can get the kits in stages, 3 of them for the Billy, Katie, and Lady Anne. Chassis, Boiler and Body work. So you can buy as you can afford. That is my plan as I want a Katie for my next engine. The Merlin has Walscherts, but its fixed, so reversing is done with a rotary valve between the cylinders and inside the frame, some of the Accucraft line use a piston valve between the frame to reverse the engine like the Ruby series. Roundhouse has an excellent website, read away! Mike


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

I've been to the Roundhouse website.

Any experience with the Accucraft Plantation 0-4-2?, it may be another viable option


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

The plantation is a very nice engine. I believe it is basically similar to the Forney and Ruby (Same Cylinders but bigger boilers) The advantage you will have with the Plantation is you can add RC to the throttle and Johnson Bar. Unlike the Sammie you can only RC the throttle. If you plan on doing operations and moving cars around in the yard then the Plantation might be a better choice. If you don't might having to give the Sammie a little push in the direction you want it to go then the Sammie is better. The Sammie will run longer and the gas runs out before water (That's a good thing) The Plantation will need a Goodale Valve to get longer runs and the water I believe runs out before the gas. Here is a good video showing it with added RC, new cab and a summerlands chuffer. If video doesn't show just click on Youtube (Short URL).


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

If he could afford the Roundhouse Fowler in kit form, that would be an excellent plantation style engine with RH quality an parts support, along with slide valve cylinders. If this weather would break, I need to see if my Argyll will clear my covered bridge on the garden railway. Its the one feature that isnt allowed to be replaced, per she who must be obeyed. And I cannot change the approach on either side. I know the Merlin will be ok, Argyll will be tight as its a larger model. Mike


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Mike and Shawn, I've not been ignoring your responses, I've been having some problems logging into the site. Shawn, I watched the youtube video from the message that was sent to my email, and I like what I see, the post above shows the youtube link as "This page cannot be displayed".

I don't know if the problem is with my computer or the site is bugged. I shut off and restarted my computer, and got the page to come up and hold, before it was flashing the site, then going to a white screen.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Strange. Cant wait to see what you end up getting. Here are better pics of my two engines. Mike


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Mike Flea said:


> No Longer contemplating, I know I want a live steamer, and have read 2poor's thread "Wanting A Live Steamer", and the funds are there for a small inexpensive steamer.
> 
> Rexcadral, while perusing some YouTube videos of the Dora and Sammie, I ran across your "Sunday Afternoon Steam", very informative, thanks.
> 
> So the choices are narrowed down to Dora or Sammie. Thought about the Regner Lumberjack, but not sure about doing a kit, despite watching videos from Snowshoe.


Hey Mike!

Glad ya read my post to, as I'm reading yours. I'm still debating. I know I am, but I just don't know which one to get. I got about 1,200 saved right now and still saving. Out of the two you mentioned, I'd have to say I like the Sammie! I saw the lumberjack as well, but I'm staying away from kits. lol. I kinda want to get one like right now.. since I do have the funds, but this may be a one time thing, so I'd like to get one that I"m going to be sticking with for a long time.. hence my liking of the 4-4-0 and 2-6-0. I almost clicked the buy button on the Ruby, just to have a live steamer lol

Please let me know what you end up getting. and I'm like you as well, all R1's and a small layout for now.

Steve


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

If anyone wants to follow Mike he posted on the other form LSC. He cant get the page to stay up here. 

I just cut and past from LSC but if anyone can help him get back on here.
Mike posted:
I've been researching the Regners, Roundhouse Sammie, and a couple of the Accucraft, and unfortunately I can't get on to that forum anymore to retrieve my notes. The page comes up for a second or 2, and then goes blank. I even tried accessing the site through my ipad and iphone, and I can get on the site as a guest, but I can't log in, possibly because it shows I'm already logged in from my desktop. If anyone here can contact an Admin over there, maybe he can log me out, and I'll try to get back on in a couple days. Anyway, enough of that, and sorry to stray.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Shawn;

I just had the same problem. It is Internet Explorer messing up. If Mike can switch to Firefox or Chrome, it may solve the problem. I was able to get back on using Chrome.

Yours,
David Meashey


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

2poor4Gscale said:


> Hey Mike!
> 
> Glad ya read my post to, as I'm reading yours. I'm still debating. I know I am, but I just don't know which one to get. I got about 1,200 saved right now and still saving. Out of the two you mentioned, I'd have to say I like the Sammie! I saw the lumberjack as well, but I'm staying away from kits. lol. I kinda want to get one like right now.. since I do have the funds, but this may be a one time thing, so I'd like to get one that I"m going to be sticking with for a long time.. hence my liking of the 4-4-0 and 2-6-0. I almost clicked the buy button on the Ruby, just to have a live steamer lol
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the response Steve, like you, I'm still up in the air, but I'm narrowing it down to the Accucraft Forney or Dora (more so just to get started in steam), Regner LumberJack or Chaloner, or the Roundhouse Katie. Just found out that Reynauld's is close to me, they are closed on Monday's, so will try to call tomorrow to see if they have anything, their website needs to be updated.




Dave Meashey said:


> Shawn;
> 
> I just had the same problem. It is Internet Explorer messing up. If Mike can switch to Firefox or Chrome, it may solve the problem. I was able to get back on using Chrome.
> 
> ...


 Dave, you were right on about the problem. According to Kyle N., it was a network wide problem with IE, and evidently, you and I weren't the only ones having this issue, and since I'm able to get back on, they've resolved it.

WooHoo!!, Thanks Kyle


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i am using a Inspiron ONE dell computer running windows 7. It doesn work on there. however on a chromebook, using the same WiFi it works fine.

its all messed up!!


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Received an email from Jason today, might have another option, have to think about it.

Also called Reynaulds this morning, and he said Regners would be available in April.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Flea said:


> Received an email from Jason today, might have another option, have to think about it.
> 
> Also called Reynaulds this morning, and he said Regners would be available in April.


 Keep In mind that Reynolds buys Regner from a UK/EU dealer and resells here in the US. They have no US warranty coverage. I am the only US dealer authorized by Regner Germany. Its also why their prices are 20% higher than list prices from Regner or myself.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

I appreciate the insight, Jason, I didn't know that. I went to his store today, and it's located in a vacant Trust Co. Lot's of $$ in that place, all Marklin and LGB stuff. Said he's going to the Nuremberg Toy Fair in a couple weeks, and then he'll bring back what he can, really don't want to pass up any good deals in the meantime.

I'm really interested in the earlier offer, and from the gentlemen here and on Large Scale Central, you're a reputable dealer. If you haven't sold it yet, I'll give you definitive answer by 1/22/17. I'm the only income source in the house, so sticking to a budget is foremost.

I sent you an email.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Kovacjr said:


> Keep In mind that Reynolds buys Regner from a UK/EU dealer and resells here in the US. They have no US warranty coverage. I am the only US dealer authorized by Regner Germany. Its also why their prices are 20% higher than list prices from Regner or myself.


.... and you never chimed into me wanting an Accucraft 4-4-0.. lol The bay has a few listed at 1,899.99.. and still debating on what to get.. Personally I think the unlettered 4-4-0 would look great pulling these...










decisions decisions. hate it.

Steve


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve your email to be stated you wanted to be under 1000.00 So with that the 4-4-0 is double that budget.

If you want to be over the budget than I might add a Pearse Colorado I have. Here is a photo from the internet of one as I've not yet gone through this one and taken any photos yet. It will be 1800.00


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Leave it to Jay to stir the pot with yet another awsome model! LOL! Those are a really nice engine, built in the UK. Mike


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Kovacjr said:


> Steve your email to be stated you wanted to be under 1000.00 So with that the 4-4-0 is double that budget.
> 
> If you want to be over the budget than I might add a Pearse Colorado I have. Here is a photo from the internet of one as I've not yet gone through this one and taken any photos yet. It will be 1800.00


Jay,

Don't recall an email... but I could do the 4-4-0 about 1/2 way there for the cash if I don't buy the 1899 off the bay... but now that you posted THIS!! I don't know what I want. I'm loving the Pearse Colorado and @ 1800 not bad!!!! Can you tell me more about it?? Good for a first timer?? I can see my overton coaches pulled behind that!!

Thanks for the pic and another decision...

Steve


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Maybe he confused it with me, I sent Jay an email saying the budget was $1000.

Can anyone tell me dimensionally, how much bigger is an Accucraft Emma compared to an Accucraft Plantation or a Regner LumberJack?


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes Steve I did confuse the need of the budget. Either way the Pearse is a good running engine. They were well built and also in 1/22.5 same as your cars you have. 

As to the Emma, it is a different scale than the Plantation. its about double the volume. The Lumberjack is pretty small, about the same as the Plantation. Specs on my site for the LumberJack.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Mike Flea said:


> Maybe he confused it with me, I sent Jay an email saying the budget was $1000.
> 
> Can anyone tell me dimensionally, how much bigger is an Accucraft Emma compared to an Accucraft Plantation or a Regner LumberJack?


LOL, yeah, looks like too many wannabe's lol. He's got me hooked on the 2-6-0.. I may just have to change my mind on the 4-4-0 and opt for the 2-6-0, my USA coaches I hope will look good behind it..

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Kovacjr said:


> Yes Steve I did confuse the need of the budget. Either way the Pearse is a good running engine. They were well built and also in 1/22.5 same as your cars you have.
> 
> As to the Emma, it is a different scale than the Plantation. its about double the volume. The Lumberjack is pretty small, about the same as the Plantation. Specs on my site for the LumberJack.


Since you had linked the pic.. I have tried a google for it, and couldn't find out much information. I did read where someone complained that it was "LOUD" while running... I'm really liking this, engine though as far as price, don't feel comfortable forking out 1899 on an ebay purchase... so.... where can I get more info, and..... do you do any mods to it? like headlight backup light.. etc.. I use loop and hook couplers, and I think that has knuckles and nothing on the front?

Getting excited now..

Steve


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Jason, I sent another email


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

The excellent offer that Jay gave to me, just isn't going to work out, partly because I made the mistake of telling my wife how much the engine cost, and she blew a gasket, and since I have to live with her, I don't need the grief. So the budget stays below $1000


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

buy it anyway!

then tell us if you are still married


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> buy it anyway!
> 
> then tell us if you are still married


 Wish it were that easy Nate, and you'll find that out when you have a family to support.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Brings to mind when Tag Gorton wrote about affording his first live steamer, not a small amount even back then. He financed it with one of those loan offers that one gets in the mail. But prior to pulling the trigger, he made sure he could save the proper amount of money each month to make the payment....without disturbing the family budget. "Three pints and an evening newspaper" became his saving matra that he says still funds his hobby to this day. Pints being beer for those not of the UK mind set. Mike


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Where is the reverser lever on the Dora?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Flea;

It's a rather small lever projecting just above the footplate of the cab, and near the boiler backhead. It can be a bit tricky to reach in certain situations. It's not too bad for "rocking" the water out of the cylinders when first starting up. Just keep the cab roof flipped aside.

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks, been looking at pics on the interwebs, and I found a pic with it.

I mentioned earlier that my other hobby is RC trucks. When I go to a manufacturers website to check out a truck, there's a page for specs, dimensions, electrics( if RTR), and other pertinent information to get the consumer to buy their product. I don't find that on websites for live steam locos.

A few of the distributors show dimensions, but not on all engines. What's the big secret?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike
I have not followed closely your taste in live steam locomotives but the is on ebay a gauge 1 lives steam (Shay) under $800.00
Secondly, you could start with "O" gauge live steam a bit less stress on the pocketbook. Our group has track that allows for gauge 1 and O gauge.
Keep looking at auctions, etc. This past weekend at the steamup event there was an auction were two Aster engine (Reno, Schools) sold for less than $1000.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks Charles, I saw the 2 on e-bay, and to be honest, I don't do auctions. I'm a bit leery, and I've looked at the photo's of both.


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

> A few of the distributors show dimensions, but not on all engines.


True, length/width/height, blowoff pressure and minimum radius is all most manufacturers will list on their web sites (and in the case of Accucraft, minimum radius is, in my experience, not always accurate). You might occasionally see an overall weight listed for bigger models, for example, a K-37.

Sometimes valve or valve gear type is indicated, but cylinder bore and stroke or driver diameter are rarely, if ever, shown. Not that those numbers are really useful in smaller scales -- you're not going to be able to calculate a tractive effort number than anyone can use, that formula doesn't work terribly well with fractions, and the result is close to meaningless when using oversized water molecules.

What additional specs would you like to see?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike
As to Aster locomotive there is a roster listing of all the locomotives and specifications:

SouthernSteamTrains


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Know the loco you bid on Ebay. The Shays on ebay now are old. They are Mamod type motors. Possibly a Geoffbuilt but not sure.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Length/width /height and min radius, and you're right Accucraft can't seem to get that right.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Ya, I don't remember if it was earlier in this thread, or 2poor's thread, others had mentioned they thought it was the latter, and ya, I don't do e-bay, especially on a purchase such as this. I don't know enough about the different brands to pick up a used one, and hope it works. Last thing I need is to make a purchase that goes BOOM.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Kovacjr said:


> Know the loco you bid on Ebay. The Shays on ebay now are old. They are Mamod type motors. Possibly a Geoffbuilt but not sure.


The Shay on ebay is a Geoffbuilt. Its Very similar to mine. If it is truly a Geoffbuilt not sure its worth much more then the highest bid now.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Flea said:


> Maybe he confused it with me, I sent Jay an email saying the budget was $1000.
> 
> Can anyone tell me dimensionally, how much bigger is an Accucraft Emma compared to an Accucraft Plantation or a Regner LumberJack?


The 7/8n2 Emma is about 50% taller and wider than a Plantation or a Lumberjack. It is huge - you may have to adjust all your tunnels and bridges, not to mention platform clearances.

I google 'site:mylargescale.com Emma Size' and got this thread on beginner locos. You might find it useful:
http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/28545-accucraft-s-emma-suitable-beginners.html


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

I contacted Accucraft and pre-ordered a Forney, due out second quarter of 2017 by the email I just received.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Find that hard to believe with the current backlog of production.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

I don't know when their fiscal year runs, but the guy that I talked to said 6-8 months

I'll wait. I'll get what I want, new, at a price I can afford.

In the meantime, I'll work at leveling the layout, and making some changes to the track and structures. Wife suggested some logging on the other end, as we currently have a farm at one end.


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

Kovacjr said:


> Find that hard to believe with the current backlog of production.


And getting longer. I noticed another UK model has been put back again. With the collaberation between Accucraft and Aster the delays can only get longer. At least you Americans have had some G1 models released lately.

DougieL


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

dougiel said:


> Kovacjr said:
> 
> 
> > Find that hard to believe with the current backlog of production.
> ...



Delays have zero to do with the jount venture of Aster in recent months. The delays have been happening for 10+ years. Its the way of life, you just wait if you want it.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

pretty much sums it up Jay, if you want a certain model, you wait and wait till it gets produced. If you want a regular scheduled delivery time, buy a Roundhouse, might have to wait a few months, but the production is scheduled and kept to pretty well from what I have seen. I think Accucraft have just grown beyond what they can deliver in a timely manner. Between the USA models, UK, and Germany/Europe, they have a very full plate. HO scale brass isnt any better. Friend has waited several years for a model that was announced, for which he reserved and it has never gone into production for one reason or another. Probably not enough reservations he is told, but they keep putting in the future models flyer(fishing)for more interest. Those little Forneys were popular. I figured he would go with the plantation engine as they can still be found in stock. Mike


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

Kovacjr said:


> Delays have zero to do with the jount venture of Aster in recent months. The delays have been happening for 10+ years. Its the way of life, you just wait if you want it.


Jason, I said the joint venture will only make things worse. I agree that delays have occoured before but over the last couple of years things have got worse here in the UK.

DougieL


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

My thoughts are Accucraft are trying to be the king of the hill. Announcing so many new models that they cannot keep u with orders in a timely manner. I guess as long as quality holds up, that can work other than annoyed customers waiting for longer than planned for the models. Atleast RH keeps things under control, only so many models in the range at one time, and others retired to make room for new models to keep things resonable on thier end for meeting delivery dates. Same for the old Pearse loco works. As to not meeting deadlines and quality going south, one has only to look at the Merlin Loco Works to see what can happen. Just like the daily news, even in the live steam world, we live in interesting times. Should be fun to see how this merger with Aster pans out long term. If the delays in delivery get out of hand, it opens up the door to anybody else that can get similar models to market in that price range. My "dream" would be to see Merlin Loco Works rise from the ashes under new ownership with the quality that we get from RH. But alas, its only a dream. Mikie


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Mike, Merlin will never rise again. the companies are dying, the sales are dying, the people are dying, Live Steam is dying.

I think there is only one way to stop it. have USA trains, LGB, and bachmann introduce a small engine such as a ruby for 400-500 ish. 
I once read the Bowande porter was once going to be marketed by bachmann, but the deal fell through. We need to get a big company to sell them ,just to get people hooked.

and we are going to MAKE LIVE STEAM GREAT AGAIN!


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Mike Toney said:


> pretty much sums it up Jay, if you want a certain model, you wait and wait till it gets produced. If you want a regular scheduled delivery time, buy a Roundhouse, might have to wait a few months, but the production is scheduled and kept to pretty well from what I have seen. I think Accucraft have just grown beyond what they can deliver in a timely manner. Between the USA models, UK, and Germany/Europe, they have a very full plate. HO scale brass isnt any better. Friend has waited several years for a model that was announced, for which he reserved and it has never gone into production for one reason or another. Probably not enough reservations he is told, but they keep putting in the future models flyer(fishing)for more interest. Those little Forneys were popular. I figured he would go with the plantation engine as they can still be found in stock. Mike


 Plantation still exceeds my budget by the time shipping and handling gets added in.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Darn it all. Well, I hope you dont have to wait to long for the model to be produced, just do not hold your breath. I have seen the 2-4-4T running before at a steam up, it is a nice model but needs RC and a load on the drawbar to tame it. The one running at the Cincy national convention was manual and was streaking along till it derailed and thankfully snagged on a support brace for the layout, keeping it from a 4 foot fall to the grass. Its a shame that RH cannot come up with a fixed valve gear with a reversing valve like a Ruby or even my Merlin uses. That would really make thier basic series more enticing.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Toney said:


> Darn it all. Well, I hope you dont have to wait to long for the model to be produced, just do not hold your breath. I have seen the 2-4-4T running before at a steam up, it is a nice model but needs RC and a load on the drawbar to tame it. The one running at the Cincy national convention was manual and was streaking along till it derailed and thankfully snagged on a support brace for the layout, keeping it from a 4 foot fall to the grass. Its a shame that RH cannot come up with a fixed valve gear with a reversing valve like a Ruby or even my Merlin uses. That would really make thier basic series more enticing.


Im sure RH can make the basic series with a fixed valve gear with reversing but then it will bring the price up. Doing it with slip eccentric helps keep it simple and affordable.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

I may do the Dora deal now, with the 2 coal cars, just to get into steaming, and pick up the Forney when it becomes available.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

*Pearse Nevada*



Kovacjr said:


> Steve your email to be stated you wanted to be under 1000.00 So with that the 4-4-0 is double that budget.
> 
> If you want to be over the budget than I might add a Pearse Colorado I have. Here is a photo from the internet of one as I've not yet gone through this one and taken any photos yet. It will be 1800.00


I have a Pearse Nevada I would like to sell. It's a 2-8-0 similar to the Colorado.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i have no money

i'm probably going to be buying 170 ft of track (new), 4 lionel atlantics (new) and 3 lionel starter sets (new) all for $500. it a deal i cannot pass up. (about 3000 worth of stuff)


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> i have no money
> 
> i'm probably going to be buying 170 ft of track (new), 4 lionel atlantics (new) and 3 lionel starter sets (new) all for $500. it a deal i cannot pass up. (about 3000 worth of stuff)


 So what does this have to do with Contemplating Live Steam?


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i want another engine too, just i dont have money for one


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Flea said:


> I may do the Dora deal now, with the 2 coal cars, just to get into steaming, and pick up the Forney when it becomes available.



You cant go wrong with the Dora for the price. It will be a good engine to get you started and learn the basics. Make sure you get a #3 jet or see if they can swap out the one that comes with the Dora. For some reason the stock jet makes it difficult to keep the flame on.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> i want another engine too, just i dont have money for one


 Then instead of buying the "good deal that you can't pass up", save that $$ for another live steamer.



snowshoe said:


> You cant go wrong with the Dora for the price. It will be a good engine to get you started and learn the basics. Make sure you get a #3 jet or see if they can swap out the one that comes with the Dora. For some reason the stock jet makes it difficult to keep the flame on.


 Thanks for the tip Shawn


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Shawn, as a newb to live steam, If I ask them to swap it out, or purchase one to do my self, how will I know that it is a #3? Is it stamped on the knob or shaft?


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

also get the goodall valve to refill the boiler under pressure, Dora's boiler is on the small side. That is a pretty good deal for the Dora and 2 mining cars on the Accucraft Estore. I think my wife got me one of the last Ruby #5's from RLD for xmas, but wont know till she gets home from the hospital in a couple more weeks. They are ready to send her from Indy to the rehab hospital in where we live in Kokomo, just dealing with insurance issues first. Mike


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Flea said:


> Shawn, as a newb to live steam, If I ask them to swap it out, or purchase one to do my self, how will I know that it is a #3? Is it stamped on the knob or shaft?


If I remember correctly its stamped on the nut part of the jet, ill have to double check. I just ordered mine from Jay at the Train Department. It should be listed on his page.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Toney said:


> also get the goodall valve to refill the boiler under pressure, Dora's boiler is on the small side. That is a pretty good deal for the Dora and 2 mining cars on the Accucraft Estore. I think my wife got me one of the last Ruby #5's from RLD for xmas, but wont know till she gets home from the hospital in a couple more weeks. They are ready to send her from Indy to the rehab hospital in where we live in Kokomo, just dealing with insurance issues first. Mike




The goodale valve will do no good as the gas runs out before the water on the Dora. That's a good thing for a beginner until he gets use to it.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

true, was just thinking of extending runs without waiting to cool down to refill the water. Gas can be refilled anytime as long as the burner is OFF. I refill my Merlin's gas as soon as 20psi is reached on the clock. I still have water and oil left after the run. If I do not refill the gas, the runs are shorter, probably just the ineffenciy of the older gas burner. Mike


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks for the tips Shawn and Mike.

To those that have purchased a Dora, what all comes included with the engine?


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Toney said:


> true, was just thinking of extending runs without waiting to cool down to refill the water. Gas can be refilled anytime as long as the burner is OFF. I refill my Merlin's gas as soon as 20psi is reached on the clock. I still have water and oil left after the run. If I do not refill the gas, the runs are shorter, probably just the ineffenciy of the older gas burner. Mike


You still have to let it cool. Like my Forney, the gas tank it next to the boiler and gets very warm. Makes it hard to fill the gas tank up when its that warm. But it nice for winter running because of that.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I think it varies on the engine Shawn. I was able to refuel my RH Lady Anne that I used to have after only a couple of minutes of cool down if any time at all. By the time I serviced the oiler, and topped up the boiler, I could refuel and relight the burner. Even the Mayflower can be refueled pretty soon after shutdown. But this is also why I have my battery powered engines, for the down time when steaming or needing a break from steaming. Mike


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike Toney said:


> I think it varies on the engine Shawn. I was able to refuel my RH Lady Anne that I used to have after only a couple of minutes of cool down if any time at all. By the time I serviced the oiler, and topped up the boiler, I could refuel and relight the burner. Even the Mayflower can be refueled pretty soon after shutdown. But this is also why I have my battery powered engines, for the down time when steaming or needing a break from steaming. Mike


Im only referring to the Dora and Forney where the gas tank is almost against the boiler. The difference is how close the gas tank is to the hot boiler. All my other steamers like the Shay, Sammie etc can be refilled right away but they are far enough away from the boiler unlike the Dora and Forney. I guess a heat shield or something can be placed in between to help somewhat.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I have this "tape" that is like thick alum foil and is normaly used for furnace duct work. It would be good to stick to the boiler side of the tank to reflect some of the heat as its very shiny. Most times I do not run my engines beyond the one boiler fill back to back. Having more than one engine helps, or, I am usually ready for an engine that doesn't need the attention of the steamers, so I rotate in one of my battery powered engines for a bit. That is one killer deal for the Dora and the 2 cars. I am not a big Dora fan, but I do like those little coal wagons. Mike


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

Agreed, it very much depends on the engine. Sometimes the air space between boiler barrel and tank is enough, but for some engines, I've put a thin sheet of insulation between the two, mostly to keep the tank from getting too warm during the run. I got some 1/8" thick stuff from Sulphur Springs many, many years ago -- I think it's fiberglass or something similar. But it doesn't need to be fancy, even cardboard will do.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Just put an order in for a Regner Henry


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## Ron Tremblay (Aug 18, 2011)

Yup, Just ordered a Henry too.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you looked at the Wuhu Falk or the Porter? pretty close in price range, two cylinder, self starting and many other features. The Porter got very good reviews in SiTG several months ago. LG


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

*Accucraft Emma - A 7/8th scale option*

Mike, an option you should consider is the 7/8ths scale Emma from Accucraft. It is an 0-4-0 tank engine that can be easily modified to meet your needs (i.e., Porter, Forney or Sammie type tank engine). It is larger and has much more space for R/C yet still operates well on 45mm track. In fact, Accucraft will give you a 48" diameter circle of track for free with your purchase. 

Jason Kovac, Bob Moser and other Accucraft dealers can get one for you and the price is about $1,000. It varies a little by dealer, so shop around. The Accucraft site has a listing of dealers, some of whom may be close to you.

Accucraft is producing other 7/8ths locos which are all worth examining.

Also, here's a link to a 7/8ths site (you have to register) which has lots of info on this area of the hobby.

http://www.7-8ths.info

As stated by others, live steam is contagious and you will meet many who will go out of their way to help you.

Regards,

Will


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

thumper said:


> Mike, an option you should consider is the 7/8ths scale Emma from Accucraft. It is an 0-4-0 tank engine that can be easily modified to meet your needs (i.e., Porter, Forney or Sammie type tank engine). It is larger and has much more space for R/C yet still operates well on 45mm track. In fact, Accucraft will give you a 48" diameter circle of track for free with your purchase.
> 
> Jason Kovac, Bob Moser and other Accucraft dealers can get one for you and the price is about $1,000. It varies a little by dealer, so shop around. The Accucraft site has a listing of dealers, some of whom may be close to you.
> 
> ...


 I actually was mulling about the Emma for a while, and I know, like most small engines it can be kitbashed into something else. But all of our buildings that are being constructed, we're modifying them from 1/29 to 1/22, and using 1/24 model cars (that were built over the years). "Oh hey Honey, we're changing the scale to 1/13!", that'll go over like a wet fart

Eric Schade turned me on to that site last week, and while the scale is larger and probably easier to work on, I've got a lot sunk into 1/22.5, and by the ten-foot rule, a 1/20 loco should fit right in.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Also keep in mind the Emma may come with a 4' circle its useless for running the Emma with any cars behind it without a 2" long link. Its really way too small a loop. Would recommend at least a 6-8' dia for 7/8ths locos like that.


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

Welcome aboard Mike Flea! All of the advice that you have received from the forum members is first class stuff. By the way, the term "stuff" is an archaic steam engineering definition from very old Machinery Handbooks from the late 1890's. Stuff is defined as steam that has lost all it's thermal energy, but that is still visible. Think WWII film noir railway stations, probably in foreign films, such as featuring Bogy and such.
As I remember, you have a potential 4' radius as your "controlling radius". This alone will determine which small scale live steamer you can "afford". It is the mechanics of your pike that that limit your buying decisions, not the depth of your wallet.
I, myself own a portable I" gauge layout that I bought from Michael O'Roark that has a 1' foot controlling radius that well handles an all up, but regauged, "Ruby" live steamer and a couple of Michel's custom built goods wagons. It will also accommodate a couple of the Regner 0-4-0's that are regaugeable to the German narrow gauge that about duplicates 1" American gauge. I displayed this layout at the Summer Stamp in 2013, maybe 2012.
My first live steamer is an Aster Frank S. 0-6-0 purchased new in 1994 for USD$999.95 plus shipping, from Trainworld in Brooklyn, NY. The locomotives that have been recommended to you are in todays dollars less expensive. This is in no small part due to the pioneering efforts of brothers Charlie and Bing and the whole Accucraft organization. They did put the price pressure on the existing live steam model manufactures and thus created the aggressive pricing that we model engineers enjoy today.
As you have been advised by my peers in the hobby: it is addictive. The restrictions of a 4' controlling can easily lead to visits to estate brokers! In my case I determined that I had enough square feet in my Japanese back garden to build a 33' by 35' elevated, double loop, 45mm pike with sufficient steamup area. The original facility was commissioned in1997. It was rebuilt in 2015. The failure mechanism was the sun's UV, and other rays, attacking the cast-in plastic spike heads. These failed over the 18 years use, and I did gain some useful time by selectivy hand spiking the failed rails. Nothing lasts forever!
In my experience the happiest budget live steam modelers are the ones who own a couple [that's two] personal favorite locomotives/consists, but no railroads. But, they do belong to a local steam club that hosts steamups during the "season". It may not be the whole enchilada, but it is the most economical way to go.
Forget the sparky layouts as most are on the ground and our steam oil ruins the electrical conductivity of their power pickups.
Mike, if you wish to go live, you can e-mail me at [email protected] Unfriendlys be advised that I employ electronic countermeasures.
Semper Paratus


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks for the info Kevin, but I assure you, sticking to a budget is in my best interest for keeping peace in the house, lol


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

P-A-T-I-E-N-C-E, not one of my better virtues, been giving the Roundhouse Sammie a second look. Even been checking out the Mamod Brunel and the Mark II


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I got to see the Brunell run in person last weekend at a steam up. Really a neat model and with the ceramic bed style burner, its nearly silent when raising steam. No burner noise. Was fun to watch run and has tons of potential for customizing and making into a logging engine, or a tram, ect. That has got to be one of Mamod's better efforts with live steam. Mike


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

For those that haven't been following on LSC, I changed my mind on the Henry, and ordered a Sammie, with a couple add-ons, instead. While Regner may be a good product, I was second guessing my skills to assemble a kit as a novice steamer, and buying it assembled, would put me over budget.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Sammie should be here in a couple days, after doing a little bit of detail work, I should be steaming by next weekend.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Sammie has arrived, and it looks cool in blue


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad its safe and home. In its very special paint.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

Thanks again, Jason. I was pleasantly surprised getting it in color despite what I read on Roundhouse's website.


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## Scudding (Oct 31, 2012)

RC is easier with butane fired locos than alcohol. 
Roundhouse Locomotives are very reliable and have parts available for repairs. 
http://www.roundhouse-eng.com Kits are available which lowers cost a bit and allows better working knowledge of your locomotive so you will be less anxious about repairing in the future. 
Used locomotives are available episodically. 
Personally, if you are not equipped with milling machine and lathe, consider only locomotives that have parts easily available.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

OK,
I'd like to know why butane fired locos are easier to RC than alcohol.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Scudding said:


> RC is easier with butane fired locos than alcohol.
> Roundhouse Locomotives are very reliable and have parts available for repairs.
> http://www.roundhouse-eng.com Kits are available which lowers cost a bit and allows better working knowledge of your locomotive so you will be less anxious about repairing in the future.
> Used locomotives are available episodically.
> Personally, if you are not equipped with milling machine and lathe, consider only locomotives that have parts easily available.



There are people that can do the repair work, if parts are not available. (Triple R and Train Department). Poor reason to tell people to stay away from certain live steam train. 
If you have the space, you can do RC to alcohol and butane, no difference. Your not controlling the fuel your controlling the throttle and Johnson bar.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom Bowdler said:


> OK,
> I'd like to know why butane fired locos are easier to RC than alcohol.


I've seen both types R/C'ed, so it can be done. One question that comes to mind with alcohol is, do you put a servo on the blower? Most of the time the answer seems to be no, that's not really necessary, but if you're going to be closing the throttle via R/C, you'll want to be close enough to your locomotive to open the blower manually if you don't have a servo on it. 

The other challenge with R/C and alcohol vs. gas is that in most cases you can shut off a gas fire immediately, while an alcohol fire can take longer to extinguish, so if something goes wrong you are more likely to cook your servos on an alcohol engine than a gas one. If you are stopped without your blower open, and the flames go hunting for air and start licking out from under the firebox and into the cab, the metal parts of the engine may be fairly forgiving of such things (up to a certain point anyway), but the plastic servo cases and the electronics inside them are generally much less so.

Also, with a poker burner style gas burner, you have space in the dummy firebox or between the frames where you can stash the batteries, receiver, etc., where the burner pots would be on an alcohol-fired engine.


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## Mike Flea (Apr 8, 2014)

https://vimeo.com/241446848 Finally got a video of Sammie


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