# Installed track cleaning suggestions wanted



## Derailed (Aug 26, 2013)

I have about 60 feet of track outside which has been down for about a month now. Today I attempted to run an engine today and found the loco ran a few feet and would stop, I would offer a push and away it would go for a few feet and stop again. Clearly the straight sections of track were too dirty to offer good current flow. It ran perfect in the corners just had issues on the straight. changed locos and had the same problem. The train will run fine if I use a scrubby pad on the section that it stalls in but I hope there is a better way than chasing it around with a scrubby only to have to do it again the next time I run it.

I am curious how to initially clean the track and then how often I should expect to have to clean it. I have seen the track cleaning cars and kits to convert existing cars to cleaning cars. Any favorites ?

How do you guys keep it clean and what do you do if the track isn't used for extended periods of time to get it functioning again ?

Thank you for any and all answers.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

First question, manufacturer and type of rail... (brass, nickel silver, etc.) 

running ok on corners and bad on straights is unusual often the reverse.... check for cross level problems on the straight track (small level across the rails) 

Also, what locos? maybe you don't have a good enough pickup system. 

Greg


----------



## Derailed (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi Greg, 
Thank you for your time. 

Track is brass LGB. This new and unused track was in dry indoor storage for 10 years before it came into my possession. 
I leveled track side to side when installed. It is still level despite a few rain storms. 
Locos - 1 new Hartland Mack switcher with electrical pickup through the wheels. 
1 new LGB Porter switcher with wheel and pickups between the wheels for electrical power. This loco runs the best of the two due to the extra electrical pickups I suspect. 

The fact that after a rub with a scotch brite pad on the rails makes it runs normally makes me think dirt and tarnish. Is there a product or procedure that you would recommend to initially get these rails as clean as they can be and then how would you maintain them ? Is it going to be necessary to have a track cleaner car in every train ? 

Thank you for taking this time to assist me.


----------



## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

3-M green cleaning pad on a block of wood. I used a small sandpaper holder made out of rubber instead of the wood.

Don


----------



## Derailed (Aug 26, 2013)

Hey Greg, 
I must have awakened this morning smarter than I was last night, I just read your cleaning section on your site. let me try some of your ideas before we proceed. 

Thank you,
Wayne


----------



## Derailed (Aug 26, 2013)

Thank you Don.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used a green scotchbright pad on a dry wall sander, with pole, for years. It allows me to walk around the layout and easily clean the track. With brass track polishing the track is a fact of life. The pole sander keeps me off my knees. and takes about a minute or two to clean my 90' of track.

Chuck

Here are some pictures on my system on my temporary, winter, layout in Arizona. I also use it on my permanent outdoor layout in Virginia.


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Just an observational comment: I have a small outdoor loop and find a very significant difference between a single block loco such as the Mack and double block locos such as the NW 2 or S-4 or say the 3 truck Shay. The small motor blocks by their geometry are the first to stall with dirty track. The larger locos with more wheels picking up power as well as longer footprint will operate on my layout far longer then the small guys. 

I used to use the Mack as a test loco...do I need to clean the track? Try to run the Mack.... 

Jerry


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chuck, I assume that is your "winter" place in Arizona. How quickly does the track oxidize there? I have family in a number of places in AZ and it has always amazed me how slowly even bare steel rusts. 

So, how long does a "scotchbrite" session last? 

Greg 

p.s. Love to see some of the pix of your layout back east, do you have a link to some layout pictures?


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Aug 2013 09:26 AM 
Chuck, I assume that is your "winter" place in Arizona. How quickly does the track oxidize there? I have family in a number of places in AZ and it has always amazed me how slowly even bare steel rusts. 

So, how long does a "scotchbrite" session last? 

Greg 

p.s. Love to see some of the pix of your layout back east, do you have a link to some layout pictures? 
**************************************************************************************************************
Greg:

I do the Arizona layout once or twice a week, whether it needs it or not. Dust is a greater problem than tarnish. My chemistry is a little fuzzy, but I think that iron requires moisture, dew, rain, etc., to develop rust. Other metals, aluminium, silver, brass, etc., will oxidize (tarnish) directly from the air. 

The Arizona layout is on a patio completely under a roof.

Both layouts have about 90' of mainline and it takes a minute or two to do the mainline and a couple more to do the passing sidings.

As for your P.S., I'll start a thread on the Public Forum with some pictures and a description of my layout here in Virginia.

Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Chuck, from the pictures I have seen, your VA layout looks larger, it's definitely photogenic! 

Greg


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

From things that Chuck has said in the past, I thought he'd have a lot more hair than that.

Just sayin.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff, between dealing with the chronology of the posts in the forums and my over worked brain, I have burned off most of my hair from the inside out! Chuck


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

You too?! Great confo, Chuck. That's what I've been telling my wife for years, and I'm printing this out RIGHT now.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

less hair - wonder what my problem is - it was gone before MLS came along.........( problems or not.... and they still R....) 

Ha !!! 

Dirk


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

rain makes things rust, indeed, my chemistry says more rain today... 

D


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

or is that ache joints........... mmmm!


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi Derailed, sorry for the, um, derailment... my bad... it's just that it was a shock to me to see that Chuck looked so... normal... and I had to say something. 

Anyway, if I were a more regular member here, I bet that I'd have seen your name elsewhere. But I'm sporadic. And Dirk is off-line somewhere, slathering himself in Ben-Gay, so I can't ask him. So what is it? 

===>Cliffy


----------



## Derailed (Aug 26, 2013)

Perfect Chuck .
Thank you for the tip.
Best regards,
Wayne


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad to help. Enjoy your trains!!!! Chuck


----------



## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Try a little Dexron III automatic transmission fluid. Just a few drops on about six inches of rail. Slide the loco through it once or twice, then turn on the power. I think you'll be pleased and surprised as I was. I'm not sure you need to use the wall sander, but it can't hurt. I'd run the sander around the layout, then a few drops of Dexron III, then sit back and run trains! 

After the loco completes a lloop, I'd add a track cleaning car and pull it at all times.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Adding oil as an oxidation barrier is somewhat controversial. 

I know it works for many people. 

Be aware that if it does not work, you might be cleaning a lot of gunk from your wheels. 

Also, don't know if Dick agrees with this or not, but not great with plastic wheels. 

I have tried "fluids" on brass, nickel silver, steel and stainless steel on Z, N, HO and G gauge over the years with mixed results. 

In the end, pristine clean has worked best for me, but your mileage may vary" 

Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have occasionally used "Rail Zip". I think that it is similar to the Automatic Transmission Fluid. If I added a 6" bead to both rails my engine would just sit and spin on my short section of track that has a 3-4% grade. When I use it I use only a couple of drops on each rail at a point on the down grade. If my layout was level I might be able to get away with applying more.


Chuck

P.S. Many years ago Mark ask me to write a review for GR on Rail Zip. I applied it as directed on the bottle. I had some grades of unknown % on the layout in Lakewood, Co. The engine would not make the grade because of spinning wheels. After wiping the track I didn't have any trouble. Since that experience I use it very sparingly.


----------



## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Chuck and/or Dick- The topic of Rail Zip/Dexron III (ATF) has come up before. Since you've got some experience with Rail Zip/ ATF, maybe you might shed some light on this. Is Rail Zip basically Dexron III? I'm guessing that ounce for ounce ATF is cheaper than Rail Zip. When you used Rail Zip, were there any lasting benefits- like longer periods of time between rail cleaning? If Rail Zip/ATF is truly beneficial, I wonder if adding some to a pad (like a cleaning car) and pulling it around the layout for even dispersion would do some good? Or perhaps, a light coating before the winter snow as a "preservative." I currently use either the LGB Track cleaning loco or a ScotchBrite on a pole sander to clean track. Thoughts? 


-Kevin.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin:

I don't know for sure that they are the same. I seem to remember a post a while back that suggested that Rail zip was similar to ATF. Whether all ATFs are the same, I haven't a clue.

I rarely use RZ on the track any more. I occasionally use it when I have a problem rail join. I put a drop or two in the join and wiggle the rails. This seems to improve the connection.

I agree with Greg. I think that applying too much could lead to a buildup of crud (dirt) that collects in the oily film and could transfer to the wheels, no proof just a thought.

Chuck


----------



## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Chuck- Thanks for the insight. I had a feeling that there could be a "crud build-up factor." For now, I'll stick to my trusty LGB track cleaner and pole sander. 


-Kevin.


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't know whether this could be considered relevant to this topic, but will add the information. I have read where some modellers adapted a method used by the late great John Allen on his Gorre & Daphetid RR in HO scale. These modellers cut a piece of masonite into a rectangular shape, large enough to extend over both rails, but not wider than the ties. The masonite was glued, rough side down, to the heads of some heavy nails or bolts (bolts are probably best, as a nut can secure them once inside the boxcar). The ends of the masonite were probably sanded to give them a slight taper upwards. These fastners were set through holes drilled into the floor of a boxcar. As the car was moved around the layout, the rough side of the masonite helped scrub crud off the rail heads - yet the masonite was not abrasive enough to scratch the rail heads. Of course, on outdoor layouts, these cars would need to be taken inside when conditions got damp or wet. Under dry conditions, they act as a gentle polisher.

I still use an AristoCraft track cleaning caboose because I do not have a permanent layout. (I clean the crud off the pad with rubbing alcohol and an old T shirt.) I would consider the masonite approach for continuous cleaning in between sessions with the track cleaning car if I had a permanent layout.

Just a thought,
David Meashey


----------



## Derailed (Aug 26, 2013)

I thought hair loss was due to dealing with too many Bachmann products. Just a thought.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

One can challenge folicles with Aristo as well.... 

I used RailZips indoors on On3 track, it made the next cleaning easier, but not much change in cycles. 
Out doors it must be a grit magnet, which our heavy trains can vibrate and flex into joiners and joints.... 

John


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

With the dust issue in AZ, I would think it would hold more grit too. 

On the masonite, it's somewhat absorbent, but once the block is saturated with gunk, you need to toss it, it does not clean very well. 

Of course masonite is cheap. 

It's best for surface dirt, grit, bugs, etc, not really effective for oxidation. 

You have the issues: 
Physical debris (not adhered to the rail) 
Physical debris like sap, dead bugs (adhered to the rail) 
Oxidation 

Each takes a bit different method of cleaning, some cleaning methods will get 2 of the 3 and some 3 of the three, but the ones effective at all three seems to lead only to abrasives. 

(solvents will clean sap, but not remove oxidation, brushes will clear branches but not sap and oxidation, etc.) 

Greg


----------



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By Derailed on 28 Aug 2013 08:41 AM 
I thought hair loss was due to dealing with too many Bachmann products. Just a thought. 
True, but I'll confirm the Rail Zip product recommendation, it works wonders. Here's my personal before and after:










Happy, unhappy. Your choice.

===>Cliffy


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Well I've been getting ready for open house this Fri/Sat and I am now using _the best of all worlds._ I use a green pad under the drywall screen. Then I soak the green pad with rail brass cleaner. The cleaner acts as a lubricant to keep the screen from scratching the railhead and gets down into the existing scratches and grooves. Works like a charm.


----------

