# DC, DCC and Wireless....



## FrankMatulewicz (Dec 27, 2007)

I am trying to confirm in my own mind that you can start a garden railroad and wire it for DC Block control and add an extra cab for DCC control and wireless. The extra cab, DCC, could not be run with the DC block control equipment since it would put power to the entire layout. It would be like a basement layout with block control with each cab having it's own power supply. For the DC cabs I already have power supplies in the form of Exide manual 12v automotive battery chargers that I've modified adding large caps to flat line the power signature and increase it from 12v to 18v. I already have three of these only one of which I used on a small garden layout I had at home. I will probably purchase the power supply that GregE mentioned in another post, for the DCC cab. I am also planning on using outdoor lighting burial cable, 16Ga stranded, as this worked very well at the home railroad.Think narrow guage railroading, short trains, few double headers and long runs. Let me know if I'm wrong in my wiring selection.

The reason for this approach is that I am going to build a Garden Railroad on our site at a campground in northern Indiana where the wife and I are members. The owner is very interested as he has inherited G scale trains from his father in law. I'm sure he is interested in running them on the railroad when I build it. I saw some of them and they are mostly Lionel, Bachmann and some LGB. I'm pretty sure none of them are DCC ready and I don't know if he will agree to the expense of modifying them for DCC. 

As I said, he is very interested in seeing this happen and has almost doubled the land of our site to accommodate the railroad and offered to help where he can. Our site is now much larger than our Chicago home with its postage stamp size back yard. We also spend most of our weekends there throughout the year, (open all year) which is why I eventually decided to take out the backyard garden railroad. I never got to "play" with it. So I'm moving everything to camp. I have a little over a couple hundred feet of Aristo and LGB code 332 brass track and will start with that. All Aristo and LGB large radius turnouts and three Aristo Train Engineer wireless throttles that I picked up quite some time ago. I have two of them installed in two of my Bmann ten wheelers. I used to run a freight and passenger train at home.I know they are not DCC compatible but I can always relegate one of the three DC cabs to the Train Engineer. Again, I know it will not run with DCC or DC cabs in operation. 

Eventually I will probably go to all DCC wireless with onboard battery but at the cost of that equipment that will be years from now. But that's ok since this is going to be a years long project. I am estimating that I can eventually have 600 to 800 foot of mainline with five towns, two junction stops, two coal mines, one hardrock mine, freight yards, engine facilities and assorted industries in the towns. My HO model railroad hobby past is fashioning my garden railroad build and it will be designed for proto ops and no spagetti bowl of track.. 

I need to survey the site this spring to account for all the "constraints" and design a formal total track plan, that will be built in stages. This will be a fictional Blue Ridge Mountain narrow gauge that will link to the ET&WNC. It will be partially dual gauge with a link to a standard gauge branch line. Haven't decided on which railroad but I favor the Southern. The corner area (approx 30' X 50') is where I'm starting and it will all be hand laid three rail dual guage trackage. A big oval with a couple passing sidings and a few spur sidings. At least I can run the narrow gauge stuff until I can build some standard gauge equipment. I'm hoping to keep the narrow gauge grades below 3% but I do envision a couple 5 to 6 foot high mountains. The dual gauge will run low, ground level around the mountains with the narrow gauge climbing into the mountains. Era will be around the mid to late 30's. Maybe even early 40s. Early 40's because I was looking at Accucraft's two small deisel switchers. The DRGW #50 and the Whitcomb 45T. From the photos and size they look like standard gauge switchers reduced to narrow gauge. Might just be possible to reverse that without too much trouble. Quicker than scratch building steam motive power for the standard gauge line. Just a thought. 

Ooops... I guess I got carried away here. I'll be posting progress reports and I'm sure I'll be looking for advise and solutions from all the great folks here.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I am trying to confirm in my own mind that you can start a garden railroad and wire it for DC Block control and add an extra cab for DCC control and wireless. The extra cab, DCC, could not be run with the DC block control equipment since it would put power to the entire layout. It would be like a basement layout with block control with each cab having it's own power supply


Frank, I always advocate setting up block isolation controls for a layout. Think of the problems of debugging a short circuit on a layout where it is all one big block! [Been there, done that.]

Years ago, when we had multiple controllers for our DC layouts, we had selector switches that fed power from the selected controller to a track section. (Wasn't it called Cab Control?) I see no reason why one of the controllers couldn't be a DCC system. Just make sure each track section is completely isolated.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, no problem on block power wiring, but be sure to use DPDT switches and not common rail.

Your wire is probably too small a gauge, I would go 12 gauge, definitely not 16, this is a do it once and do it right kind of thing.

Be cautious of the wire terminations, moisture can wick up inside and corrode the wires, and landscape wire is many fine strands, they "go away" pretty easily.

Solder the wires to the crimp terminals, and then use liquid rubber so that no moisture can get into the jacket.

Solder wire jumpers between your tracks and your track power layout will be great for years.

Stay with track power, and all the money you save can go into more rolling stock, you will probably save $100 to $200 a loco if you go sound..

And you won't ever have to charge or replace batteries, which do not last forever.

Also if you stay DCC, running multiple locos and different types of sound systems is easy.

Greg


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## FrankMatulewicz (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks Pete. I agree. I wired a couple of the Model Railroad club's cabs (Salt Creek Central Model Railroad Engineers, Elmhurst IL) many years ago. I worked on electrical for the layout. Although I enjoy it, it is a rather invisible result as compared to the scenery or track work. Yep it was called Cab control. 

Thanks Greg. I have been mulling that over. I know I've read a lot about using 14 or 12 gauge solid for the wiring for DCC. I just wasn't that sure it was necessary. I used 35mm film canisters to contain all my wiring junctions outside and when I took up the old layout and opened them, they looked as good as the day I put them in and that was at least 5 years in the ground. I always soldered my connections. taped them with electrical tape and sprayed them with spray electrical tape. The small hole in the bottom of the canister the wires were fed was sealed with silicone calk and then the top cap and can were wrapped in electrical tape and further sprayed with electrical tape. Once done and put in the ground they had the resemblance of manhole covers. Going to be a bit tough to work with 12 gauge solid in those canisters. I saved a whole bunch, shoe box full, for future wiring. Oh well, if I can't manage it with the 12 gauge I can find another use tor them. 
I always use wire jumpers between all track sections and only used the clips to keep the rail aligned with each other. . Kind of shaped like a top hat or ohm sign and buried under the ballast. I usually soldered the rail clips on one of the rails and used the screws to secure ti to the other. I made a resistance soldering supply from an Exide car manual battery charger and soldering is a breeze with that. The box of carbon welding rod I use in the soldering jig will last several lifetimes. 
I think I ran a power drop every 15' or so to the track and never had a problem. I did use the plastic rail joiners to separate the blocks on both rails. Never did like using a common even in my HO railroad years. The couple years I did use the old garden railroad layout, I never did have track or electrical problem. I did make sure I only used steel wheels on all equipment and plastic wheels never touched my rails. I also tuned up and checked all wheels to make sure they were gauged properly and used Kadee couplers on all my equipment as well. I tested a couple homemade under track electo magnetic uncoupling devices that worked out better than I thought. I never did like the look of the Kadee in track magnets.
I'm going to start out with track power and see where that leads to. I really liked the Aristo Trainmaster wireless control so wireless is definetely in the future. I may test out battery power in couple locos to see how that goes and to use to clean track with the Aristo Track Cleaning caboose. That thing worked good for me in the past and I"m going to really need it on this layout as it expands.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Be cautious of the wire terminations, moisture can wick up inside and corrode the wires, and landscape wire is many fine strands, they "go away" pretty easily.


*Tip: Buy your electrical components at West Marine !!*

Boaters have been dealing with moisture for years. Marine grade wire is pre-tinned, so it doesn't oxidize. Marine grade connectors are also tinned, so the crimps retain good contact forever [about 20 yrs on a boat in salt water!]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great stuff, when I was first starting, since I live a mile from the ocean, went there to see all the brass, bronze and stainless parts and fittings.

Their wire is great but very expensive. Also, although the tinning will retard oxidation, tin still is not complete protection from corrosion.

The way Frank described his connections and using the spray on electrical tape is bulletproof, won't need any special wire with those techniques.

I wish I had done that initially, as I use 10 gauge stranded, but did not seal the ends and moisture wicked in a bit. I really don't have an issue though, since I use the heavier stranded wire you use in a building, so the thicker strands won't disintegrate like the fine strands of landscape wire (when unprotected).

Greg


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