# Ballasting my track for estethic puposes



## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

G'day,
I have laid my track on a concrete bed about 2" thick and about a foot wide, i am no loking into ballasting it for looks only but I am hesitent to glue the ballast on because of thermal expansion and the fact that I want to be able to pull it up easily when I move...
Some people suggested to add a bit of cement to the ballast so it sticks to the base.
Has anybody done something like this?
Kind regards


----------



## Peter Eaton (Mar 11, 2015)

I had trouble with ballast moving around, getting under the ties and into the switches so I got rid of loose ballast and now use white stone roofing sheets under the track. I then use mulch to cover the edge of the sheets. Peter E.


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have mixed ballast and Portland cement many times. I get up to 4 years of it staying in place. I mix in Portland Cement to hold the ballast in place. It does not necessarily hold the track to the concrete. I have a different way of anchoring my track to the concrete. Look for Working on the NR&WGR in this forum. I think it is in there some where. 

update I found the link to my Ballasting thread. It also shows how I anchor my track. 

I hope this gives you some Ideas. 

http://forums.mylargescale.com/16-track-trestles-bridges-roadbed/17137-ballisting-track.html

JJ


----------



## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Thank you Peter and John.
I dont feally want to fix my track as I have a lot of thermal expansion.
Due to this I was concerened that the concrete mixed with ballast would lock the ties to the ground and hence deny movement of the track.
I could just put the ballast on the concrete bed, but I would have issues with cleaning the track as it runs under trees. As you are in a similar climate to John, do you have issues with expansion?
And can the ballast still move with the track?


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have one 70 ft straight section that moves a little side to side due to expansion. 
I have expansion joints for that section but have never installed them. . I have all the screws out of the ties on the bottom of my track. The rail can move on the ties. The way I anchor my track is what holds my track not the ballast. The anchors hold it firm but not that ridged. The track is easily taken up by just undoing the wire or removing the screws. My ballasting lasts about 4 years. I have a two places where the road bed turns into a river during heavy rains. The ballast remains in place. I get some stilt in the runoff which adds to the ballast. 
I have removed most of my ballast because I did some track work. Right now I am not sure I am going to put it back. 

JJ


----------



## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Thank you very much John, rain will not that much of an issue (I am in Australia) if the ballast with cement does not turn it into solid concrete I will give it a go on a small area and look how it works...
Back to concreting for now and than running some trains...


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Now it seems like ballast is made from gold dust and the only way one can affordably ballast a large railroad is aestheticially.

When I put in the Tortoise & Lizard Bash in 1997, I used to pay $2.25 per 80# bag of #5 granite crusher fines.

A few years ago I was paying $6.25 per 80# bag.

Last Friday I bought three 80# bags at $12.85 per bag plus tax!


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd

Are there any shops, yards, that sell rock products in Southern California? In northern Virginia there a a company called "Luck Stone". They sell all types of rock products, from all sizes of crushed rock, rounded river gravel, to slabs of polished "granite" for counter tops and table tops.

They sell the crusher fines and other loose rock by the pound. I weighed my Ford Explorer upon entering the yard, shoveled the fines in the back from a bin in the yard and weighed again on the way out. As I recall I had about 500 pounds and it cost less than $20.

You might check with some large landscaping and/or paving companies to see if they know where you can get crusher fines.

Chuck


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

At this point, I only need "make-up" bags. I get it at Pacific Roofing Supply, less than 8 miles away in Orange. I buy a few bags and it lasts for several years.

When I built the railroad in 1997, I used to take my Jeep Grand Wagoneer up to Sunburst Rock Products in Irwindale. I paid $2.25 a bag, but is was far cheaper in bulk. But you had to have a truck to haul it, and a place to store it. 

http://www.sunburstrock.com/materials.html

I could get about a dozen bags in back of the Wagoneer (about 1,000 pounds) before it sagged to badly that I didn't want to make the ~40 mile journey on the freeways. I can't get a dozen bags in the back of my Caddie SRX, but a few is no problem.

When I started getting it at Pacific ~2000, it was $3.25 a bag.

A few years ago it was $6.25 a bag and now $12.85 at Pacific.

http://www.pacificsupply.com/


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a product called mulch lock here in ohio. You spray it on and it hold your ballast in place .pete


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Michael
One idea I picked up from a seminar at the Tampa convention is to make a line of ballast an inch or so to the left and right of your track area about 3/4 inch to 1 inch high and bond that with Quickcrete concrete adhesive. Make sure there is room for the track to fit between the two parallel lines of bonded ballast without touching them. Let dry then pile loose ballast between the two rows and put your track on that. Thus you have a floating track on loose ballast, but is should stay put since is is sitting in a "ditch" made by the bonded ballast.

Jerry


----------



## rntfrmme (May 23, 2013)

That is an interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that and may give it a try. I have been letting my track settle for about a year and now i'm ready to ballast.


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Michael,
Instead of using cement, you might want to look into a product that I use called EnviroHold Mulch Bond. 

http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=201595746

http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=201595745

I initially found this on sale at Sam's club about 5 years ago. I bought 1 bottle that fall to do a test. I was happy with the results and the next year I picked up about 10 bottles plus 10 refills as I was afraid they would stop selling it. I was correct and the next year it was not at Sam's. You can now find it on Amazon, Ace Hardware, Home Depot, etc. etc. 

The heavier you spray it on, the longer it will hold up. I typically find that I have a 20% failure rate each spring. I have some areas where It's been holding for 5 years, others where it's cracked after 1 or 2 years. Overall I think the 20% failure rate is acceptable so I continue using this product. I use between 1 and 2 bottles a year for my 1,750 feet of track. 

I suspect the reason for the failure, in most cases, is the method I use to apply it. I spray the outside ballast and not the middle while the track is in place. I think if I was to remove the track, spray the entire crown, then put the track back in place that it might hold better. I'm suspecting that during the winter months, I'm getting moisture down the middle that then freezes and cracks the roadbed. I would do a test, but it might take a few years to get the results, and by that time I would probably forget the test was on going. Getting to old to remember that stuff. 

Most of my mainline I try to obtain a nice crown of between 1 and 6 inches think. Surprisingly the thicker the crown, the better it holds up. It's always the area's where it's the thinner that fails through the winter. 








I use both #9 and #8 limestone roadbed. The #8 is the base and then #9 on top of that to form the crowning and depth needed. 

One thing that I've noticed is that it smells like Elmer's White glue when spraying it. I've been tempted to try mixing up a batch and testing it, maybe a 50/50 mix of glue & water, but to date I've not done that. 

http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=201595908

http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=201595906

http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=201595903

Mark
*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*


----------



## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Mark-

The links don't work for me. Need to put in a username/password on the members.webs.com site.


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Eric,
Try it now.
Mark


----------



## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Thanks Mark, works now.

You mention that failure occurs from the winter months and water freezing. But do you find that in the warmer months the track is able to expand/contract fine? No humps, buckles, etc.


----------



## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

As long as you don't spray the stuff on the rail ties, the track can move freely. So either spray just on the sides, or lift the track up away from the stone or remove the track, then spray the whole roadbed. 

I have some spots where I do not want the track to move, so I sprayed right down the middle of the track ties and on each side. Other places I just sprayed on the roadbed side keeping away from the ties. 

Mark
*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*


----------

