# 1:29 scale demand?



## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

I am very new to this but I'm thinking of starting some planning and I've been looking at 1:29 scale as I want to run things like the Aristo Dash9.


However, I have noticed that there does not seem to be much in the way of 'support' such as structures. vehicles and people. Or anything else for that matter specific to 1:29.


I have a friend who has access to CNC and mold making stuff and I'm into 3D software and computers so I've prodded him a bit about possibly doing some kit making and perhaps some vehicles in 1:29 scale.

We were wondering if you guys (as in people with experience unlike us newbies) thought that this might make a viable small business venture?

Is 1:29 popular? I've read good and bad about it, but as far as there being enough modelers who would be interested in kits and stuff, what do you think?


I know this is sort of an out there question but all replies appreciated.

Thanks.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You are right, there is very little to support 1:29. There are no ready made structures in 1:29, and no figures, no vehicles. I've been frustrated for years about the lack of detail parts in 1:29. The usual explanation, which might be right, is that 1:29 isn't to scale, and people who like 1:29 are people who don't really care about modeling, they just like big trains. Aristocraft's ready made buildings are in 1:24, for example, even though Aristocraft "invented" 1:29! So is there a market for scale fidelity in 1:29? I think there is, but it's small. 

Because even though 1:32 is the "correct" scale for mainline, there's not much in 1:32 either. All the action in terms of ready made stuff, or kit/detail parts, is in 1:24 or 1:20. I'd like to believe there's a market, but I'm skeptical


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Its not just 1/29, what about 1/20.3? there are a few custom shops that sell building kits in the scale but -0- majors offering buildings autos etc in that scale, you can get Hubley Model T car kits in 1/20 but thats it. Even the 600 lb gorilla of 1/22.5 has to use off scale items like cars in 1/24, even Piko and Pola kits are 1/24 if I recall correctly. So in a nutshell, NOTHING is a perfect match across all the scales unless you want to scratchbuild everything, but I sure wouldnt want to make 1992 Fords in 1/29. If you think about it, its really surprising that no one have stepped up to offer 1/29 specific resin car or truck kits. I think its because their are almost no fine scale indoor layouts (the biggest drivers in detail parts) in that scale, the vast majority of 1/29 modelers fall into the "run it out of the box" catagory, because the models they can buy RTR are already highly detailed, where the narrow gauge guys back in the early days were either scratchbuilding or kitbashing cheesy low detailed products like Kalamazoo engines and rolling stock and were able to push the detail suppliers in that direction. Remember, until 1/29 caught on the vast majority of outdoor and indoor LS layouts were narow gauge (1/22.5 or 1/24) so thats where the early market went, and its simply never readjusted.


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Posted By lownote on 27 Mar 2012 11:06 AM 
You are right, there is very little to support 1:29. There are no ready made structures in 1:29, and no figures, no vehicles. I've been frustrated for years about the lack of detail parts in 1:29. The usual explanation, which might be right, is that 1:29 isn't to scale, and people who like 1:29 are people who don't really care about modeling, they just like big trains. Aristocraft's ready made buildings are in 1:24, for example, even though Aristocraft "invented" 1:29! So is there a market for scale fidelity in 1:29? I think there is, but it's small. 

Because even though 1:32 is the "correct" scale for mainline, there's not much in 1:32 either. All the action in terms of ready made stuff, or kit/detail parts, is in 1:24 or 1:20. I'd like to believe there's a market, but I'm skeptical 


I'm also skeptical. All my trains and rolling stock is 1:29 (well almost all of it) and my buildings, people, and autos are all 1:24 because that's pretty much all that is available. But if someone intorduced 1:29 buildings, autos and people in 1:29 they might make a killing. Or they might lose a lot of money. It's hard to say. I think a lot of people want 1:29 but they are reluctant to commit much to it if it doesn't look like it's going to take off or if it looks like it's going to be much more expensive. I'd like to see your friend do it, but not with my money. 
Bob


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I build model kits of other things, principly sci fi, but i found that almost anything I could think of, no matter how obsure, has had a resin kit of it made at some point in time. Thats why I'm so surprised that someone hasnt offered up any resin kits for vehicles and stuff in either 1/29 or 1/20.5. they arent that hard to produce. The only reason i can think of is that despite what we would like to believe, LS really is a very very little fish in a great big pond in terms of demand and no one wants to risk losing their shirt, but if thats the case how come I could get a resin model kit from a barely known about 1930's movie? Is there that many more modelers even in terms of movie ultra-obsura when compared to LS? Are we really that little a crowd?


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## Conrail Mark (Feb 18, 2012)

1:29 is what it is, not quite right for standard guage modelling but still popular in the grand scheme of things. I would suggest that the reason why there isn't masses of rolling stock and ancilaries (cars, people, buildings etc) is more to do with market forces; i.e, there are only so many people who will buy it and the main manufacturers are reticent to spend cash on developing new stuff that might not sell...though why they make stuff that is nearly the same is beyond me (GP38/ 40 for instance). 

I have to say that the main manufacturers probably need to 'grow a pair' and take some well researched risks as I believe the market, even in stringent times such as now, could benefit from more choice - how many times do we see forums asking for this or that (50+ft flats and gons or different locomotives for instance). How hard is it to run a 'wishlist' in Garden Railways Magazine or on this site that informs the debate? 

Though not exactly the same (size and cost


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## Conrail Mark (Feb 18, 2012)

Forgot to mention, there's a guy in the UK making kits of a 'Sharknose' that look pretty good - how obscure do you want to go huh!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

The thing is that we can forget about any future Aristo Bachmann or USA offerings of anything "scale specific" elements (cars, buildings people, etc) that isnt already in there catalogs until the economy is stable for a few years, we'll be lucky if there catalogs dont actually get thinner. So its up to the small guys to take the risk but even when things were going great, no one stepped up to the plate, that says alot about where the reality in 1/29 lives, namely that the majority is happy enough using off scale elements (cars, buildings people, etc) that theres no real market for such scale specific items, apparenty "close enough" really is close enough.


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## Elcamo (Dec 10, 2011)

I think that if there was signifigant growth (as in completely new hobbyists) in 1/29th, then there would be a much larger demand for buildings and detail parts in that scale. However, it seems like most modelers in 1/29th already have a large collection of buildings and details in other scales, and I bet that they'd rather stick to the stuff they have now then start over. Personally I "model" in 1/24 scale, because it's great for scratchbuilding and close enough to the other scales (except for 1/32) that I run lot's of different equipment. I couldn't get away with 1/29th scale buildings like I can with 1/24, because it is too far away from the other major scales.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I've seen 1:20.3 scratchbuilt structures going for $150 on eBay. I'm SERIOUSLY considering a line of Colorado prototype Western-style buildings in 1:20.3. Seems like it would take a lot of casting resin for an 1:20.3 kit, though... 

And how will resin hold out in the sun? 

Robert


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

Martan I don't think your question is out there. I have been in large scale for about 10 years. I just recently focused my modeling on 1:29 exclusively. What I have found is there is a good amount of rolling stock and many figures to chose from. As far as buildings and vehicles I use readily available 1:24 & 1:25 die cast cars. Building I mix and match piko,pola and Colorado models. Being from Massachusetts Charles Ro/ USA trains are really close.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Martan on 27 Mar 2012 10:50 AM 
I am very new to this but I'm thinking of starting some planning and I've been looking at 1:29 scale as I want to run things like the Aristo Dash9.


However, I have noticed that there does not seem to be much in the way of 'support' such as structures. vehicles and people. Or anything else for that matter specific to 1:29.


I have a friend who has access to CNC and mold making stuff and I'm into 3D software and computers so I've prodded him a bit about possibly doing some kit making and perhaps some vehicles in 1:29 scale.

We were wondering if you guys (as in people with experience unlike us newbies) thought that this might make a viable small business venture?

Is 1:29 popular? I've read good and bad about it, but as far as there being enough modelers who would be interested in kits and stuff, what do you think?


I know this is sort of an out there question but all replies appreciated.

Thanks. 




Martan,
The 'scale' modellers are using 1/32nd scale, and there are some items available that are close to 1/29th, I believe (but I could be wrong.)

There does seem to be demand for 1/29th kits/models/accessories. Alan at G.A.L. is a small manufacturer and he has had some success with 1/29th. See http://www.thegalline.com/index.html [ www dot thegalline.com/index.html if the link doesn't work.]


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I use buildings from Colorado Model Structures, they are 1:29. Figures are from www.policecarmodels.com. You can use 1:32 vehicles with the buildings and they match well. Regards, Dennis.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By DennisB on 28 Mar 2012 04:59 PM 
I use buildings from Colorado Model Structures, they are 1:29.
Colorado Model Structures are 1/24 not 1/29.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

To make it easy on you guys just pick up a HO scale building kit and up scale the parts 3X and you have a perfect 1/29th structure. There are tons of steam engines but no coaling towers to feed them. There are a million coal cars but no tipple to load them from. You can request a polling of what everyone would want and do the most popular first. Or you can do a one for one where the customer sends you an HO structure and you give them an estimate and if still wanted a sale. I have been looking for the Walters HO car float in 1/29 but have not found a builder/cutter yet. Jack @import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I think the majors have just assumed that, like their narrow gauge cousins in the medieval dark ages of large scale, the 90's, that the 1/29 guys would just sratchbuild all their structures from rescaled plan sets from Garden Texture or Ted Stinson, remember them? 

Now despite all the grinding of teeth about lack of structures no one has made any mention of them, so I guess I will









Garden Texture

http://www.gardentexture.com/

Ted Stinson plansets

http://www.tedstinson.com/gardenrailwayplans.shtml



Get out yer razorsaws boys!


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

I run all 1:29 trains... and use 1:24 cars and buildings... Colorado Model Structures has no stated scale I knew of... they look great with 1:24 stuff... as for people, I mix and match... people come in all different sizes... 

Philip


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

If you go through Colorado Models site, the scale is mentioned several times as 1/24 
The buildings look just fine on my outdoor layout. My vehicles are 1/24 and my trains are all 1/29.


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

As a modeler of HO these past 50 years, and as a brand new one to garden railroading, here's my take on it. There are and will be guys like me just starting out in the large scale world. We have zero locos, rolling stock, buildings, et cetera. We have nothing to throw out, replace, or sell on ebay that's the wrong scale. But we have a history of getting the properly scaled accessories and structures. That's just the way it is in HO, and we are used to it being that way and used to thinking that way. So, we will be looking for properly scaled accessories and structures in G, too. So, I think there is a market for 1:29 stuff, if that's the popular favorite scale of G gauge trains, which it seems to me to be. And, I think with aging eyes, unsteady hands, a recovering economy (I hope), and free time in retirement, the market will grow. I also think that technology might prove to be the solution to the lack of 1:29 product, as 3D printing might just be the answer, especially as it becomes more mainstream and cheaper. Those guys can print out any scale you ask for and just about any object too.


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## D-n-H - Kirkville Branch (Jan 14, 2008)

another building consideration 

mixing buildings with different scales can actually give you better depth perception from certain viewing angles. 1/24 building up close, with a 1/29 building a few feet farther back, with 1 1/32 building farther back will look a lot more "prototypical" from a depth perception point of view. garden railroads is one of the few gauges that can do this because of the distances with models in a backyard.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Just to set the record straight. 1:29 is pure fantasies. There is no model on the market that is 1:29 in scale (unlike 1:20.3 and 1:22.5 - American 3' and European 1m gauge). The 1:29 "scale" was born out of the necessity that people wanted American Standard gauge rolling stock and the correct gauge is either 1:32 for 45mm track or 1:22.5 for 64mm track (Gauge II in Europe) (Many in Europe actually model II and IIm side-by-side). But the manufacturers felt that 1:32 was too small for the garden and everybody wanted to look like LGB (size comparability) - including even LGB, which started creative plowing up here and there a 1:32 model to look like the other models. Very visible with DB rolling stock today as well (V200 and the passenger cars, the upcoming electro engine). Piko of course followed in step.

However, if 45mm is correct for 1:32 and you blow you engines up then of course your wheel gauge is still 1:32 and in order to prevent unsightly overhang the width of the engines is typically adjusted as well. hence if it is out of scale it is not a scale. 
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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

I realize 1:29 is a 'compromise'. However, it seems pretty popular. My whole life I've tried to make a few dollars off my hobbies, when I was younger, it was music and synthesizers and computers, now it's airplanes (I rent my Cessna to students at the airport). Now that I'm getting well past the 1/2 century mark I am thinking of the next thing.


I've always loved trains, perhaps not fanatically like some but I do think they are way cool and I've built a few layouts in HO and N over the years.

I'm also into some of the things that you could 'make' train stuff out of- buildings, simple rolling stock, 'speeders' perhaps, using computer CNC and 3D printing. (I'm a software engineer by trade)

So the idea here is to roll all this into something I can have fun with and perhaps make a few dollars to help it along. That 1:29 is not 'exact' scale is not near as important as how popular it is, ie, what is the potential market for such things.


So far, I've seen nothing to stop my plans, so I'll continue to try to put this together over the next couple of years and see how it goes. Maybe it will work out, maybe not but it will be fun to try.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been thinking for awhile now that the future business model in large scale lies at least partly with 3-d printing, I recently "superdetailed" an aristocraft 0-4-0. I had to make most of the parts, with mixed success. If I had the CAD Skills, I'd make a set of drawings of, say, the PRR's distinctive marker lights, and either charge a small fee to download them, for users to send to a print bureau, or print them myself in small batches and sell them closer to on demand. 

If I ever get the time., I'm going to teach myself how to work with CAD software and try it. But if you already have the skills, I'd bet you could find a reasonable economic nitch making 1:29 scale detail parts


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I think if you could produce dozens of different figures and pre-painted them such that they didn't look like grotesque clowns or monsters and sold them at dollar a dozen it would not matter if they were 1:35 to 1:26 scale, you'd sell them like hotcakes at the fair. 

But if you want to end up with a million dollars in your pocket in this hobby, you need to jump into it with both feet with 2 million dollars in your pocket and jump back out when you have spent 1/2 of it.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

and pre-painted them such that they didn't look like grotesque clowns or monsters and sold them at dollar 
If you are pre-painting them, I doubt you'll sell them for $1 !


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 01 May 2012 11:21 AM 
and pre-painted them such that they didn't look like grotesque clowns or monsters and sold them at dollar 
If you are pre-painting them, I doubt you'll sell them for $1 ! 

Whoa... you missed my "price break point"... I said "A dollar a dozen"!

And to really sell, they'd have to be pre-painted, because people like me that have tried to paint a figure ended up with the grotesque clown faces we don't want in our modeling (at any price).


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