# Bachmann Shay 2 truck Guru's?



## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Well, you guys know part of the story.....You buy an 'estate' loco......you know: "Looks like it was never run" ...Not over a thousand hours, by someone who never opened the instructions. Looks like it was bought about March 99. The main axle drive gears are all split. Haven't heard back from Bachmann whether parts available. From old posts I understand there were ( or are) replacement trucks, haven't found any listings. ALSO, I don't understand how the main drive shaft is supposed to work. That is are the bevel gears on the shaft free wheeling, I assume at least one would be pinned to turn the crank shaft. Here again don't what its supposed to do. And no, it doesn't run due to the gear problems. Bill


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

The side shaft is cosmetic. It is driven by the front truck which, in turn, drives the pistons. On the rear truck, the ring gears are not connected to the axle. They free wheel and are driven by the drive shaft. For parts, call Bachmann on the phone. They probably won't answer e-mails promptly.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

the "limited" lifetime warranty covers the trucks, but it'll cost you $50 to get them replaced anyway


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Bachmann should have the axles with gears. 
Same on all Shays. 

Metal trucks available from outfits like TrainWorld. 
The test is to see how bad the main truck housing is. 
One screwhole cracked out (holds bottom cover on), get the axles. 
2 or more, think about new trucks. 

If the bottom has 8 screws visible when assembled, just get new trucks. 

#2 axle (back one, front truck) is all that turns the shafts and crank. 
Any others pinned, you will snap the crank or break the u-joint ears off. 

If #2 axle gear broken, you can turn #2 drivers and shaft will rotate. 

Never run is quite common on those, and still have them in pieces. 
I recall when the first reports were released on washers, bushings, housings going away, a lot of absolute morons thought they knew better than anybody else and tried to shout down the messenger. 

All one had to do was wait, and those same individuals came out of the woodwork later with shattered housings, broken axles gears, etc. 

There was a campaign 10 years ago to replace the 8-screw trucks with 6-screw (better), and the same mindset refused to do it, believing the shill response that there was nothing wrong. 
Once that campaign had passed, then they got to purchase the trucks. 

ALL trucks now, replacement, and metal, have washer kits installed from the factory, which keeps the wheels 9on and fixes the gauge issues of early units.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

The Limited Lifetime Warranty only covers original purchasers with warranty card on file. 
Specifically stated, the metal trucks (all that is currently available) was NOT to be used for warranty upgrades of older plastic trucks. 

That said, the rotating "rule of the day" can mean you might get away with it if you send it in, but be prepared for a cost at full retail on trucks that will end up being probably more than you paid for the unit.


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Well, guys, I'm still debating how to proceed. Yep, they're the old '8 screw' trucks. Bachmann's solution was $265 for trucks. I pulled one axle out that still has the gear in one piece. For my next trick, I will attempt to pull the bearing off. Haven't ruled out the possibility of coming up with a new set of gears. It just goes against my nature to have to pay that kind of money for lack of... maybe, a $1.00 plastic gear! All the remaining gears/wheel bushings appear O.K.


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## lincoln pin (Feb 24, 2009)

If you go the replacement truck route, check out TRAINWORLD 
*#88999 Die-Cast Shay Power Trucks with Ball Bearings 
(one pair) SUPER SALE $149.99*


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

The new trucks are NICE.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Yup. 
Full retail and no warranty. 

You try to "patch" those old trucks, you will not be a happy camper, and neither will your wallet.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You are buying more than the gear Cap'n, other parts of the truck seem to go to heck also. I swapped my old ones out for $100, and they had cracks in the bottom covers, and once I saw that, my faith in the rest of the plastic was shaken. 

That reminds me, I have the 2 old trucks still. I swapped them out while they were still working. Maybe I should sell them to someone? 

Regards, Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

And this is Bachmann's Spectrum Series? These issues sound more like something expected from the El cheapo Big Hauler series. So for the people purchasing a new Shay from Bachmann, do they get these new trucks? How can you verify that your new Shay is one with the new trucks? There are "New" Bachmann Shays listed on Ebay all the time. But are they really "New"?


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

No, evilbay are often "nos", not brand new just out of Philly. 
One of the reasons Bachmann specifically excluded evilbay purchases from warranty. 

I remember some person on another forum, clearing out her granddad's stuff, had a "new" Shay...we tried to encourage her, since her address held the warranty, to send it in for new trucks. 
She insisted there was nothing wrong with it. 
Two weeks later, the "winner" was on the same forums looking for trucks. 

The newer 2-truck and all 3-truck Shay have metal gearbox housings. 
However, the innards are the same (motor, plastic gears, axles, wheels, etc.). 

The plastics issue continues from time to time on various bits on various locomotives. 

Problem doesn't show up for a while. 

If you've been around Model Railroading long enough to understand the term "zamac rot", well, this is sort of the modern plastic equivalent to it. 

But, the early 8-screw trucks had a very bad affliction thereof. 

If you have 8-screw trucks and want to be able to depend upon the locomotive, get some new metal trucks. 

I am on the third set of trucks on my first Shay, still plastic, bought it first shipment into TrainWorld. 

I still have the occasional odd thing explode. 
In the last 9 or 10 months, both coupler mounts blew up, but, I keep spares on hand. 

I have saved every piece that I have replaced on these trucks and pickups, used to rebuild them, and I have boxes and boxes full of shattered parts. 
(top plates, bottom plates, gears, pickups, housings, side frames, coupler mounts, brake rigging.....) 

I consider it "evidence", in case some moron decides to pop his head up again and claim it never happens.


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Curmudgeon:"nos", not brand new just out of Philly', what does that mean? If I understand correctly, I buy new metal trucks and get the same ( what, Delrin plastic gears?). seems like mine split because they're not suffiently reamed before being pressed on. I expect they are just forced over the splined axle. Why would the axle gears break and the remainder appear O.K.? Maybe you guys have had other gears break. Ive got one axle in the vice getting ready to 'pull' the bearing so I can salvage the gear in one axle. I thought there may be a supplier that one could get replacements. Perhaps Bachmann engineered and spec'd their own, but I rather suspect they use a standard size. I have a machinist in town who's into all this sort of thing, I'll let him look and see if he can offer a fix. Is this a problem with all Bachmann G scale? I mean... 'on your 3rd set', dang, that gets deep in my bib!


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

"nos" is "New, old stock", which means new, but could have been sitting around for a LONG time. 
Don't think Delrin gear, always been plastic. 
Stress relief can be the issue on the gears. 

Not sure I've seen replacement gears, but here is a promise: 
You try to "pull" those bearings from the outer race, just throw them in the trash. 
The ONLY way to get them off and protect them is to drift the inner race off from the inside. 

Someone told me once with Nylon gears, you have to stress-relieve them for about 15 minutes in boiling water. 
These don't look like nylon, and they certainly aren't Delrin. 

To give you an idea: 

EVERY 2-8-0 I have opened in the last year, brand-new (but probably on the shelf for a while) has had a crack in the axle gear at the hub. 

So far, they are working. 
I do have a limited number of replacement gears, and when they fail, I fix them. 

How are your housings? 

I have taken 8-screw trucks apart and had the housing in 6 pieces. 
They split down the end, down the sides, anywhere they want to.


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

I have 2 - 2 truck Shays with 7 out of 8 gears split in half. I must say that I'm a little disappointing that these drives didn't hold any better than this but what can you do? Either send them back for a 100 bucks or pay 123 per engine for new drives. I spoke with Backmann and they were very nice on the phone about my situation. Mine are highly weathered and I don't want to ship the whole engine. So I will take off the drives and just ship them back.


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

I spent a small amount of time with a gear puller trying to get a bearing off, I'll get back on it today. I do this routinely on my RC airplane engines, replacing bearings. From what I have observed, IMO, the fit on these parts is too tight. On a slow rpm axle a snug inner race fit would be adequate. I still think the gears need a 'thou' off before pressing on. Seems like a drop of Loctite would do the trick. This appears to be a long term problem Bachmann simply ignores. They'll get it fixed for $265. As far as my truck frames, they're like spider webs with cracks, the more I look, the more I find. But, I get metal frames, then what I still have the plastic gear problem?


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Bearing removal report. I put the axle through a tubing holder one uses for flaring tubing, put this in the machinist vice on my drill press, just sitting on top, and cranked the chuck down on the axle to 'press' the axle out. It took some heat from my torch, played over the bearing and considerable downward pressure on the drill press. I'm even more convinced the tolerances are too tight for this! If the gears are nylon, boiling may help before putting on, we often boil nylon propellors to relieve stress. If you look at a cross section of the gear, it looks like it was made by pressure forming, there seems to be a gap at the center.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Cap'nBill on 05/15/2009 7:09 AM
I spent a small amount of time with a gear puller trying to get a bearing off, I'll get back on it today. I do this routinely on my RC airplane engines, replacing bearings. From what I have observed, IMO, the fit on these parts is too tight. On a slow rpm axle a snug inner race fit would be adequate. I still think the gears need a 'thou' off before pressing on. Seems like a drop of Loctite would do the trick. This appears to be a long term problem Bachmann simply ignores. They'll get it fixed for $265. As far as my truck frames, they're like spider webs with cracks, the more I look, the more I find. But, I get metal frames, then what I still have the plastic gear problem? 


So far, metal trucks seem to be holding up internally.

Let me relate a story, totally un-related to what we are discussing, right?

Let us say that the "specifications" for plastic casting requires the worker to walk across the factory floor, draw a bag of "Virgin Plastic Pellets" from supply, throw the bag over his shoulder, walk back across the factory floor, open the bag, and pour the contents into the hopper of the casting machine.

Let us say that after doing this for some time, said worker realizes that all the scrap from the casting process is building up around the base of the machine and his ankles.

Brilliant flash!

Pick up dust pan, scoop up scraps, look furtively in all directions to insure worker is not being watched, then dump scrap into hopper.

Presto!
Regrind!
And it takes 6-12 months for the results to show up!

Now, back to our official discussion and away from these ridiculous stories.

My understanding is there were some QC issues with the plastics, which still show up from time to time in odd places (last one for me was a front truck on a 2-8-0).
Allegedly, they have the issue "sorted", whatever that issue was.

You really have no choice with the housings gone.
Get some new trucks.
And, all that's available is metal housings.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Tech school I went to was new and started with hand-me-down furniture. After a year they had enough capital to purchase new combo desk/chairs. 

A company just breaking into the furniture business wanted the lucrative contract and so gave the school several samples to try out. Us students gave the new chairs quite a workout; beating on them, throwing them across the room, and jumping up & down on them. They were an injection molded one piece plastic seat and back, with a metal frame and legs. The whole thing "flexed" quite a bit, but that made them very comfortable... you could lean back and the seat and back would flex "just enough" to be really nice. 

We declared them fit for the school and they got the contract for new furniture for the whole school and a couple of weeks later every classroom had all new stuff.

Then about 3 months later one fellow sat down and noted that he seemed to have sunk a bit lower than usual. He looked down between his legs and could see the front frame rail of the chair in a gap that had appeared in the plastic seat. He got up and the chair came with him and he began to yell and curse loudly! Seems that when the plastic split a part of his anatomy had filled the gap and when he got up the gap closed before the tender body parts left the area!

We had to grab him and sit him down again to get the seat to "open" and then hold the chair down with great force on the back to keep the split open enough to extricate him from the jaws that had bitten him. Thankfully, the crotch seam of his Jeans had filled most of the gap and saved him from real "damage".

While we were looking at the chair to see what had happened someone from the classroom across the hall came in to warn us that several of the new chairs in that room had split! Investigation revealed that chairs were splitting the same way everywhere! Out of the 300 or so chairs, more than half split that one morning and more were split by the next day. We even found some that had apparently split overnight with no one sitting in them!

You could not tell if a chair would split or not just by looking at it. A chair would have no checks or cracks and you'd sit down and either immediately or an hour later you would suddenly sink. We all learned to look down at the seat before getting up and to turn sideways and slide out of the seat, holding your full weight on it until you were well clear of the center of the seat... just in case!!!

The manufacturer took nearly all the chair back to investigate the problem. We kept a few of the new ones and the original samples and still had some of the old hand-me-down stuff. If you were stuck with one of the new ones, you learned to put a book or something on the seat for protection, but even at that, for a few days not everybody had a seat in all the classrooms.

The furniture company finally brought new replacements. Upon inspection, we could not find any differences in the design so we asked (pointedly!) what kind of guarantee they would give that someone would not be howling again in a couple of months. They said they had discovered that someone had changed the injection mold release grease to one that was reacting with the plastic such that it would catastrophically fail ("sudden chemical disassociation with itself") after 2 or 3 months.


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Sure am glad I can't sit on those Shay trucks! Remember back.......if you're old enough...... when plastic stuff started coming out of Japan. Mostly 25 cent toys, then little by little...............is plastic better now? I'm thinking about the pics of the assemblers, running along coating the wing structure of composite passenger aircraft, before the stuff would set up, and be pressure cured.


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