# thanks and bye



## Guest (Jun 5, 2009)

after the "Some Thoughts on Newcomers to the Hobby" thread i stayed away from the forum for a while.
i wanted to get a bit of distance, to evaluate, what this forum means to me.


it is a source of knowledge for every aspect of largescaling.
i found a good amount of know-how to realize my ideas and a lot of entirely new ideas.
i love the pics of out- and indoors layouts.
there is a good number of friendly and helpfull people assembled here.
but...
most of the writers here seem to be well off persons.
to spend a 500 bucks for a loco, and then the same sum to make it run, seems just normal.


i am third-world-poor. that means, that i am happy when i can spend more than 10 to 15 $ a month on my railroad.
i am happy, that last year i found a number of packs with R1 curves, to straighten them on an anvil.
i am happy, that i could buy ten Goldlok toy coaches for 8$ a piece as base for future car bashes.
i am eagerly waiting for the two second-hand locos and a transformer, that i bought for a total of about a 100$.
i am thankfull to my wife, who, because my pocketmoney is allready spent, bought me some isopor insulation plates from her pocket, so that i can build the projected 15 foot bridge now - not later.
so this hobby is giving me fun and contendedness (and, over the decades, maybe some experience). and i have the desire, to share that.
i write something about trackpower - i get teached that battery and remote control is the way to go.
i write about an easy and cheap solution to somebody's problem - i learn that expensive and complex solutions are sought after.
i write about homemade track - i see, that nobody is interested in cheap sh¡t.
i show some pics of simple things i made - they seem to be far below the standard of the largescalers here.


more and more i began to feel shy to write here about the things, that make me happy.
what for do i stay in a forum, where i don't feel really comfortable any more?



in the thread "The Future of Large Scale Trains & this Hobby?" some writers seem to be preocupated, how the ongoing crisis might affect our hobby.
if i judge by germany after worldwar2, the hobby will go on. just like it did then.
if worst comes to worse it will change its face. most manufacturers will go belly-up, the cheque-book modellers will sell of their stuff for food and other needs. those, who stay in the hobby will improvise, they will use "boxes and twigs" to replace what will not be avaiable.
in short, if the crisis gets worse, as northamerican largescalers you will get there, where i am after 20 years of latin economic crisis.
i know by experience, that it can be satisfying to do small-money-modelling, improvising, wanting only what is possible, replacing money with time.


but i wish you all, that you never have to find out by yourselves. (because it would include a lot of grief on all levels of your society)


if you have read these lines, you should see, what i saw. i don't fit in, into this forum.



so - happy modelling, so long, 
and thanks for all the fish. (couldn't resist this one)
korm


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Good bye, and good luck. 
I've been watching the last thread, also, and am somewhat taken aback by some posturing, but, then, I know one of the posturers only too well, and it is quite typical. 

I, for one, am also quite tired of spending time and money to get stuff to work satisfactorily when it should do so right out of the box. 

Will it survive? 
My crystal ball is in the shop right now (QC problem, I am sure), but I do believe you are right on some manufacturers going belly-up. 

"Boxes and Twigs". 
I like that. 
Kinda like my BBT chassis, a block of wood and a whittling knife. 

One would think manufacturers would be most interested in quality control, and the needs of their consumer base, but, alas, 'tis naught to be.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Kormsen...I, for one am very sorry to see you go. 

I too, am in the position of counting myself lucky if I am able to spend more than a few bucks a month on my railroad, and understand your position only too well. 

I also sympathize with somebody, who, like myself, is at the end of a long supply chain, complete with all the shipping weirdities that comes with that. 

At our distance and economic level, we just make do with what we can get. 

Do drop by now and again.


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## Dennis Cherry (Feb 16, 2008)

Kormsen: What you do not know is the silent majority takes many of the ideas on these forums and used the ideas. You will never know how many modelers actually use your ideas, wish everyone would post saying so.


Some members just have to always comment and that is OK also. 


Keep your ideas coming, every once in a while someone in the silent majority will say thanks. 


I like to see new ways, might not fit my same project but it might work for some other project. Do I respond back using someones idea, not all the time but I should.


Just me 2 cents worth.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Kormsen, 

(I hope you stick around long enough to read some of these replies!) 

Your comments are valid, but such is the nature of our hobby and also the nature of the Internet. A thick skin is required to operate in this environment, where people hit the 'submit' button without reading what they wrote and considering how it might be seen by others. I've done it myself. 

And quite a few of us are penniless. Not all - this can be an expensive hobby if you want it to be - but I've been unemployed for almost a decade and my trains come and go at the whim of my still-working wife. I make my own track and I've had lots of practise because I never could afford the switches and other fancy configurations that some folk can and do. I modify inexpensive plastic models but I don't spend a fortune on them. 

There are members here who have empires in their acres of yard, and others who have a circle of track around the patio with only one second-hand engine. 

So I disagree with your conclusion. Anyone and Everyone 'fits in' as there are no boundaries. Hobbies are to be enjoyed for what you get out of them, whether it is the simple pleasure of making a wooden flat car out of cheap balsa wood or of tuning a $$$ live steamer, or making homemade track. Someone reading about it is gaining a little knowledge and may be encouraged to try and maybe to stop lurking and post what they found when they tried. Others will drop heavy-handed suggestions about what works best [for them, but they never say that.] 

As the Thinker says - do drop by now and then!


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Korm

I think you're undervaluing what you contribute to the MLS family. That may be in part because a great many members fail to actively participate which puts forth the wrong impression. I for one will miss your input, even though as I remember it on our first meeting I wasn't as hospitable as I should have been.







None the less I wish you well and do sincerely hope you'll return now and again.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Korm:

I'm sorry that you think that you need to abandon the site. I for one have enjoyed reading your comments. It wasn't until recently that I learned that you had carved a ranch out of the South American wilderness. I'd love to know more about that, and I'm sure others would also. 

You have to realize that some people think that their way is the only way, or at least the better way. If everyone agreed on everything we would have one government, one religion, one scale, etc. Wouldn't that be boring. Differences of opinion and different ways of doing things are what I enjoy about MLS. Even if you don't agree with someone, you usually end up learning something new.


I have been using analog track power for 30 years and over 20 years of that has been outside. For anyone to say their system is better than mine, so be it. I’m not an electronic wizard so rewiring a perfectly good engine for some other system is not something I am comfortable doing and if I have to fix it I’m in real hot water. I now have one radio controlled engine. That is so that I can go run on other layouts. Go with what you are comfortable with and ignore or just listen to the others.

Please come back and visit. 

Chuck N


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## Schlosser (Jan 2, 2008)

Korm, when I see that you have added a post, it is always read, knowing that you are at the end of a very long supply chain. I have a local hobby shop about 15 miles away, but the prices are not what I can afford on my pension. And anyway, my railroad is only available at Christmas time when I can lay some track around the Xmas tree; and at my young age of 82, it takes some effort to get back up off the floor!! 

There are many here that have had to downsize. Check out the railroad Vic Smith has. I wish I had his good fortune, and I bet he wishes he had some other's good fortune. Even when I was employed, I barely had enough time to be an 'armchair railroader' let alone a layout, and never enough outside space or inside even. 

Others have signed off. I wish you and them good luck, but if you're still signed on, think about 'hangin' in there.' 

Art


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## dltrains (Jan 2, 2008)

Kormsen, 
Sorry to hear of your decision to go. Hopefully you will continue to visit the forum in the future and share as much as you can. 
I enjoy the information on how you would do things or how you have done them. No, I don't live in a third world country, bu I do pinch pennies for my hobby. I can't afford $150.00 cars and $1,000. locos. Nor can I afford to spend that much to improve the same. I buy a what materials I can't scrounge,and the pieces I can't make. Trucks and couplers haven't been mastered by my modeling hand. 
Thanks to people like yourself and Mik and Les to name a few I have gained a new way to look at oddball pieces that can be used to build what I want.I have modeled most of my life, but it has always ben second to the family I have supported. I have been able to buy some of the things I've wanted, but the majority of what I do is done from scratch. 
I used to buy the materials I needed, but after following some of the posts here I've learned to look at things with a different eye and have secured a lot of material from things that would otherwise be trash. 
I like watching what others have spent their money on and what they are doing with it. But, it gives me ideas on what I'd like to have and then I think of what I can use to make it. Until here I never would have gone to the local plumber for scrap pipe and used fittings.But, looking at your post gave me a new eye. 
Yes, no matter how little you feel you have given, it has helped at least one individual. 

Dave


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*All for one, One for ALL............







Everyone has a place on this site.....*


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Kormsen:

I really was saddened to read your post. I have always enjoyed you ideas. I too run track power - on brass rail - and probably always will. It's just my personal choice. In over 55 years of playing with trains of all sizes and all manner of scale fidelity, almost everything I owned was track powered, except for a couple of wind-up trains. So I'm most comfortable with track power and don't really want to have to convert to some other technique.

I'm sorry I didn't post sooner, but I'm not allowed to post from work. And my home computer runs like it's made from (as Spock would say) "Stone knives and bearskins." Since I don't have much patience for this old machine. I don't post as much these days. One thing I know from personal experience, old steam locomotives run a h*ll of a lot better than old computers!

I am not a big locomotive person. I love to look at them, and dream of the day when I will have all the parts to cobble up a North American style Beyer-Garrett. Presently my largest locomotives are two C16 Consolidations - One Delton and One AristoCraft.

I also like to cobble train stuff together from bits and pieces, although my efforts may not be as elegant as those by other enthusiasts. I hope you check back, as here is a sampling of my stuff:










These derails are made from bits of Plastruct H beams and L beams.










This little "jet" rail car is cobbled from a 1 liter sparkling water bottle, a plastic Easter egg, a ducted fan drive, LGB ball bearing wheels, and other bits and pieces.










This ore car started out as a very brightly colored PlayMobile car.



















My "Little Deuce Caboose" with its very Spartan interior was originally a ScanKit wayside toolshed. Lots of imagination and bits and pieces went into it.










Before any baggage cars were available, I built this crude version from an LGB box van. The LGB ballast car behind it was converted to a four axle car with Delton arch bar trucks.










This little garden tool shed was made from a container that held a wristwatch my wife bought.










The manual derrick was made from an HO wreck crane mechanism and other bits and pieces. The tool and supply car started out as an LGB two axle low side gondola.

So you see, you are not alone. Please stay and continue to swap ideas.

Yours truly,
David Meashey


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Aw come on Korm dont go, * if you go I"LL be the poorest guy left on this site!!!* /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif 

There really is no reason to go, just stick to the topics that really fit what your doing and dont get involved in any over the other monkey poop throwing contests that can happen around here (unless you like participating in that kinda thing) 

I cant see why you think you have to leave here, just stick around and lurk for a while if you need to think about it, but dont leave, we enjoy your unique approach to model railroading in large scale, besides we need all the indoor guys we can get. Just hang out for a while.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Kormsen, 

I hate to see you go, but being still fairly new (just short of a couple of years) i do know what you mean by feeling that there are some who have the "My way is the only way" attitude. That seems especially true with the power discussions. And i did feel some of the overwhelmed feelings you seem to be expressing. But what one needs to realize is that MOST of the folks here are only trying to help. (Even if it sometimes doesn't seem that way.) 
I am like you, and can only spend a limited amount each month, so I too look for the most economical way to stay in. In the end there is only 1 thing that counts. IT IS YOUR RAILROAD AND ONLY YOURS! Do as you please and if someone doesn't like it then I believe that is their problem and nothing to worry about. Spend what you want, build what you want and don't worry what others think. 
The gentlemen above all expressed how much you will be missed and I hope to reflect their words. Pop back in from time to time and keep us updated OK. 

Hope to hear from you again, 
Chris


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dave,

You are doing *exactly *what I want to do, if I can ever get started! I much, much prefer to see something built from imagination than the finest piece of RS for sale.

Also, it gives me vast satisfaction to make something from nothing, so to speak. 

Thanks for the pixes.

Les


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 06/05/2009 12:00 PM


after the "Some Thoughts on Newcomers to the Hobby" thread i stayed away from the forum for a while.
i wanted to get a bit of distance, to evaluate, what this forum means to me.


it is a source of knowledge for every aspect of largescaling.
i found a good amount of know-how to realize my ideas and a lot of entirely new ideas.
i love the pics of out- and indoors layouts.
there is a good number of friendly and helpfull people assembled here.
but...
most of the writers here seem to be well off persons.
to spend a 500 bucks for a loco, and then the same sum to make it run, seems just normal.




Your perspective adds a valuable element to this forum. I am one of those who reads all your comments, at least all that appear in the general forum. As for those rich persons, I am one of those who spends a considerable amount on my engines, rolling stock, track and all that it takes to operate a SEASONAL layout here in a sub-arctic environment BECAUSE I have integrated it into my business and really need reliable AND impressive stock if this large-scale setup is to be credible and attractive. The annual cost of flowers for the garden part of this alone probably exceeds a thousand bucks--for only THREE MONTHS of display. BUT it IS business. I use it to attract customers with the hope that in the longer term it will pay off. Every year more people come by who want to see the railroad. Out of those, some of them actually spend money I would not otherwise see. The best comments have included several where people have commented that stopping by here became the unanticipated highlight of their trip to Alaska. So, you never know. 

I personally am in the same boat financially as many who wonder if they will even have a job next week. I am taking a gamble that could easily fail--BIG TIME. On the other hand, it keeps me occupied with something that keeps me involved all year long even though most of the year the model cannot be operated. I write about it a lot because the writing in this forum and sometimes in Facebook has become an essential element of this hobby for me. Except it is far more than a hobby. Because of the way I have integrated it into the Copper Rail Depot, it is also business, as I have already stated. 

Not many people reply to my many posts. But I get a LOT of views. Feedcback is admittedly weak, but sometimes life is like that. You need hundreds of people to get even a small amount of feedback. Hopefully, it will be mostly positive. I must admit, that what I find most discouraging here at MLS is that it is nearly impossible for me to get a dialog going. I might get a comment or two but that is it: no ongoing discussion of much of anything. So be it. One cannot depend on what one _perceives_ that others think for satisfaction in life. The perception and the reality often do not match. 

So please be careful with that broad brush. We don't all fit into neat categories. 

In any case, YOU should stick around. And be sure to make comments from time to time. Some of us DO read those. Maybe more than you think. 

--Ron


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Korm,

Aw, c'mon! Stick around. I always read your posts, as your thinking and mine run mostly parallel, and our life experience are similar--I mean, a hot, sweaty, figity horse is the same, be it in southern MO or Paraguay. And cows are dumb but crafty, no matter what part of the world they infest.

My RR will run on wooden rails with copper wire flattened for the 'strap-iron' rail. I haven't gotten to work on it, but I do now have the boards to put up a first module, finally. The 'strap iron' copper is house wire that I run through my bender to flatten.

I have laid up a store of dead (in some cases really dead) B'mann 10 wheelers to bash. And some Echo and a whole box of mixed Sci toy the other 'cheap toy' stuff to be used as required. I got the whole box of 'em, (7 or 8) for $15 off eBay. Most of 'em look brand new. Some few have missing pieces.

All this stuff I've accumulated over the last 3 years or so. My monthly expenditures for that length of time don't equal $25, and lots of months pass before I buy 'stuff' that might work on the RR. A lot of it comes from garage sales. Dead R/C toys are full of gears, axle shafting, and on some, the wheel drums look like they'd make good winch drum ends with a little work. And they have LED's, too.

Sure, there's big money guys here, but only one seems to feel the need to wave it in our faces. Mostly what you see, I think, are guys who don't own much more than a screwdriver (to open paint cans with) who look at the homebrewed stuff with no idea about what went into it to make it. They're lost, because it didn't come out of a store. And some just aren't interest in making something unique.

Stick around, huh? If you leave, I'll be the only farm boy left around here.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Vic wrote:

"Aw come on Korm dont go, *if you go I"LL be the poorest guy left on this site!!!* 

Not so long as *I'm* here, you won't be!









Les


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Herr Kormsen,

I earn -rather a lot... This does not give the largest budget to spend on my locos. The money that I spend is strictly limited to £10 per week -by me!!! However I have to say that if I *could* buy the locomotives etc that I wanted -*I wouldn't*.


I get a lot of fun out of building them and scratching around trying to find things that I can use, afterall I did have 14 years of training as a boy -before I came to the UK. What I have noticed are the increase in the numbers of people who are tired of simply "shaking the box" and are hesitantly picking up xacto knives and razor saws to see if they too can build what they want.


Other viewpoints are always welcome, and are infact needed to maintain a balance. It does not matter to me how much you spend on your trains -just that you enjoy your trains and are not afraid to say so.

regards


ralph


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Kormsen, if it's not too late to add my voice, please stay. You always have a place by the fire here, and a mug raised in companionship as far as I'm concerned. 

IMO When we stop learning off each other, we're dead inside.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Hello Kormsen, 

It is interesting to read this thread and I am prompted to say this: 

My mother once said to me when I was a young man and challenging the wealth of people around me; _*"Gavin, you don't need a lot of money to enjoy a good lifestyle.... "*_


This comment was made over 40 years ago and to this day I live by this one comment and I am totally at peace with my inner being because of the advice my mother gave me 40 years back. 


There will always be those greater than I. There will always be those who have less. I am but in the pack somewhere and so do I really care? 


My trains are part of this philosophy. And I enjoy what I have knowing full well that* I am able to enjoy what I have while I can*. 



Regards and I look forward to hearing from you soon. 

GG


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been thinking about this thread all night. It REALLY bothers me. Here we have a super nice guy, yet he felt excluded here because he didn't have mega bucks, or a huge layout. What kind of message ARE we (as a group) sending? Is it intentional? If not, what can we do to improve? 

Oh, sure, there's a few of us who (perhaps intentionally) exude that Jr High testosterone laden attitude of "I have more, so I'm better than you!", or "If you wanna play, ya gotta pay!"... but most of us (I hope) are just over enthusiastic about OUR way of doing stuff that we forget that there is more than one approach (My gram would have said "More than one way to skin a cat"), and NONE are 'wrong'. 

All that said, I have to agree with Kormsen on one thing. If I had the money that some of you seem to, I'd be into standard gauge tinplate -- and not as a 'collector'. Why? Because tinplate, especially in standard gauge, has no need to make excuses/justification for what it ISN'T. It's giant sized FUN, plain and simple. If anything, THAT's the part of the equation, that large scale RRing as a hobby is in danger of losing. If it's not fun anymore, then why do it? He who dies with the most toys still dies. There is just a bigger estate auction afterwards.....


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

I think the objection goes way beyond "money". 
What we have is a lack of tolerance by some. The "rivit counters", "scale nazis", and the ever so popular "my way is the only way" crowd. 
Ask a question about track power, and numerous people will chime in and let you know what a moron you are for running track power. 
Ask about a product you own, and somebody will let you know that locomotive you are so proud of is a piece of crap and why are you wasting your time. 
Too many people making themselves feel better by taking on dump on you. 
I may be new here, but I've been watching a long time. 

That being said, there are also a large number of very helpful and respectful people here. 
As with everything in life, you have to take the bad with the good. 
Ralph


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Amen Ralph, "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" or Fugley, whichever you choose. "Say what you mean and mean what you say". If your wrong admit it apologize, and go on. Run what you want, and say what you want about your layout, its your's and nobody's else's. You have to lay claim to the positive's, and the negative's. We must all wanna have FUN or we wouldn't be in this hobby, right? So let's all have fun and play "NICE" with each other like we were taught to when we were kids growing up. It's called "Respect" if ya can't do that I guess you should keep your evil ways to yourself, and let the rest of us enjoy our wonderful hobby!!!! The Regal


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Y'know, it's one thing to decide that something isn't to your liking and decide not to participate. It's another to make a thread about it and make accusations as a "grand exit." I only post this to note that Kormsen hasn't responded to any of our overtures to stay. If he has truly decided that MLS isn't for him then I am saddened by his decision but I believe the fault, if there is any in this particular case, does not necessarily lie completely with us. Kormsen chose to leave and while it's his decision, I believe him to be making a wrong one.


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 06/07/2009 11:57 AM
  Y'know, it's one thing to decide that something isn't to your liking and decide not to participate. It's another to make a thread about it and make accusations as a "grand exit." I only post this to note that Kormsen hasn't responded to any of our overtures to stay. If he has truly decided that MLS isn't for him then I am saddened by his decision but I believe the fault, if there is any in this particular case, does not necessarily lie completely with us. Kormsen chose to leave and while it's his decision, I believe him to be making a wrong one. 

As opposed to just slinking away? I didn't read any "grand exit," the man had something he wanted to say. Whether he responds to the rest of the thread may be based on whether he has returned to MLS to read the thread. It is just possible that he had his say and true to his stated intention is gone.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Or maybe he's just busy, and hasn't got back yet to see the aftermath if he even wants to!!!! LOL The Regal


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

He has someplace else where he is more comfortable. 
I think he was just letting everyone know why he was not comfortable here. 
Ralph


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Ralph Berg on 06/07/2009 8:22 AM
Ask a question about track power, and numerous people will chime in and let you know what a moron you are for running track power. 
Ralph

Ralph- Are you calling yourself a moron?
Boy.
There are rules in place to prevent me or anyone else from calling you a moron.
I guess they never thought to make a rule prohibiting you from calling yourself a moron.

Looks like we are in for some new rules!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Ralph Berg on 06/07/2009 8:22 AM
I think the objection goes way beyond "money". 
What we have is a lack of tolerance by some. The "rivit counters", "scale nazis", and the ever so popular "my way is the only way" crowd. 
Ask a question about track power, and numerous people will chime in and let you know what a moron you are for running track power. 
Ask about a product you own, and somebody will let you know that locomotive you are so proud of is a piece of crap and why are you wasting your time. 
Too many people making themselves feel better by taking on dump on you. 
I may be new here, but I've been watching a long time. 


That being said, there are also a large number of very helpful and respectful people here. 
As with everything in life, you have to take the bad with the good. 
Ralph

I have to admit that there are large sections of MLS that I don't take the time to read, so I have not noticed a lot of that. I have read some interesting arguments both way on track vs battery, which I appreciate because there are good arguments both ways depending on the nature of the specific layout. I see it as up to others to balance all this out by creating new posts that highlight the creative aspects of their own work. Not happy with how one thread is going? Create another about what YOU are doing and run with it. 


I take the view that, for better or worse, this is MY layout and I am proud of it. I cannot imagine anyone NOT doing that. I am not a rivet counter or "scale nazi," and certainly know better than to suggest that my way is the only way on ANYTHING. For the most part, I believe that is the predominant view here. Speaking for myself, I am one who makes a point of looking at other layouts people proudly present here, especially the more compact ones, and athen making _positive_ comments about them, usually high-lighting specific features. 

I would hate to think that this is all about how much money is put into a model railroad. But to the extent it MIGHT be, how could someone who has placed a great deal of financial resources into their rolling stock or layout _NOT_ be proud of it ? Finally, I note that the smaller layouts where the owner employs a great deal of creativity _tend_ to be the most interesting. Perhaps that is because one is not overwhelmed by the size of it all and can better concentrate on the details.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 06/07/2009 1:48 PM
Posted By Ralph Berg on 06/07/2009 8:22 AM
Ask a question about track power, and numerous people will chime in and let you know what a moron you are for running track power. 
Ralph

Ralph- Are you calling yourself a moron?
Boy.
There are rules in place to prevent me or anyone else from calling you a moron.
I guess they never thought to make a rule prohibiting you from calling yourself a moron.
 
Looks like we are in for some new rules!




No, he's not--not at all. He's pointing out the smug and nasty attitude that some people here have. It's actually pretty obvious


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 06/07/2009 3:55 PM
Posted By Curmudgeon on 06/07/2009 1:48 PM
Posted By Ralph Berg on 06/07/2009 8:22 AM
Ask a question about track power, and numerous people will chime in and let you know what a moron you are for running track power. 
Ralph

Ralph- Are you calling yourself a moron?
Boy.
There are rules in place to prevent me or anyone else from calling you a moron.
I guess they never thought to make a rule prohibiting you from calling yourself a moron.

Looks like we are in for some new rules!




No, he's not--not at all. He's pointing out the smug and nasty attitude that some people here have. It's actually pretty obvious




Do you really beleive the stuff that comes out of your mouth ? If its so obvious please point it out. OOOOO and Mikie i love it when you get mad, i just start tingling all over he he he


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

I prefer no rules. I would rather take care of myself.

Like I said, you take the bad with the good.
I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who don't count me as "good".
I prefer everyone have their say. Whether I approve of what they have to say, or not.
Ralph


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not mad, Nick, I'm amused.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Agreed........*


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

There are other sites that I can go to and are just fine. but everyone chooses what they want. 
I stick around here because of morons like TOC. To me a mans religion is up to him.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 06/07/2009 7:31 PM
There are other sites that I can go to and are just fine. but everyone chooses what they want. 
I stick around here because of morons like TOC. To me a mans religion is up to him.


*I think you stick around cause you know your my hero... he he he














*


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

hehehehe


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Mik wrote,

"I have to agree with Kormsen on one thing. If I had the money that some of you seem to, I'd be into standard gauge tinplate -- and not as a 'collector'. Why? Because tinplate, especially in standard gauge, has no need to make excuses/justification for what it ISN'T. It's giant sized FUN, plain and simple. If anything, THAT's the part of the equation, that large scale RRing as a hobby is in danger of losing. If it's not fun anymore, then why do it? "

Mik,

Bingo.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Steve wrote:

Y'know, it's one thing to decide that something isn't to your liking and decide not to participate. It's another to make a thread about it and make accusations as a "grand exit." I only post this to note that Kormsen hasn't responded to any of our overtures to stay. If he has truly decided that MLS isn't for him then I am saddened by his decision but I believe the fault, if there is any in this particular case, does not necessarily lie completely with us. 


Steve,

You know from the posts we've exchanged that I think you are a nice guy. I corresponded with Korm perhaps more, and I am *certain *
that a 'grand exit' was the last thing on his mind. Neither do I think he intended to place blame anywhere. I think he said what he felt, and that was it. This is an instance where I hope, good man I believe you are, that you will reconsider.

Les









Edit after posting: I don't know where/how/why those oddball indents came in. The submittal copy was clean.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If anyone thinks they feel picked on for running track power, try track power and DCC! Hah!. I've been accused of being a shill for a company because I think their product is a great deal. I've been accused of bashing because I think certain products are being marketed in a false or misleading manner. 

When I first joined forums, I was given static because I had a low post count. Then when I had a high post count I was an arrogant bully because of my "status". 

I was intimidated at first by the "experience" of many outspoken members, and have found out that a significant portion of them really don't have the experience, but just "assume" the experience as theirs but it's from someone else. (second hand knowledge can be very helpful, but needs to be "looked at" more carefully). 

Bottom line, I think it's hard not to feel intimidated or not in the "same league" as EVERYONE ELSE, but who cares? I stopped letting it bother me, there is ALWAYS someone with more money, more locos, more cars, more track (and more time, ha ha) than me. 

My rule (trying to keep to it!) is stick to objective facts that can be demonstrated. Anything else, hypothesis, opinions based on very little data, and emotion just get you in trouble unless CLEARLY "labeled" as such. (and even those are not perfect "caveats") 

my 2 cents 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

yo greg...


WOOF and go for it.... 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Is woof good or bad? 

My mind is still reeling from the Big Train Show.... 

Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/08/2009 10:06 AM
Is woof good or bad? 

My mind is still reeling from the Big Train Show.... 

Greg




"Woof" is just that 

"To bark or yap" To make one's opinion known from an energetic perspective. 


Yes, a very serious and deep comment here










gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh... I use "woof" as sort of a sympathetic sigh... I guess I need to look up the internet meaning... 

edit: all I could find was Well Off Older Folk(s)..... 


Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I like "WOOFING" at people. 

gg


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 06/07/2009 7:31 PM
There are other sites that I can go to and are just fine. but everyone chooses what they want. 
I stick around here because of morons like TOC. To me a mans religion is up to him.









If I offered to pay the first year's subscription to the board of your choice--provided you cancelled out here--would you feel insulted?


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2009)

well, i got the desire to write once more. 


just for reminder, that is, what i wrote: 

_ i wanted to get a bit of distance, to evaluate, *what this forum means to me.* 
..... 
if you have read these lines, you should see, what i saw. i don't fit in, into this forum._ 


since i wrote the starting post of this thread, i got nearly a dozen messages and e-mails. 
all very friendly. they sent me thinking if i might be misstaken and overreacting to things missinterpreted. 


then i read some postings in another thread: 


NTCGRR 

There are those who really can't buy trains due to health and other reasons. 
But there are those who say they can't afford it, but fail to tell of their other hobbies and the fancy car or boat sitting in its own garage. 
There are times I can't afford it, then there are times I work lots of hours and cash flow runs again or something good happens and I buy trains. 
trains is my ONLY hobby. 
And those who can't afford it because they don't want to brake a CD or cash a bond. 
To me can't afford means I have not found any possible way to buy something. 

I've gone w/o snacks and pop at work, not gone out to dinner and used that money on trains. 
If you want sometning bad enough, you'll find a way. 




eheading 

Marty, I think you hit the nail on the head. I have often said that when I hear "I can't afford so and so", what I'm really hearing most of the time is that "After I allocate my finances on item A, I don't have enough left over for item B". And this is okay. I know in my case, I'm like you, I really only have one hobby, trains. The other RVing is sort of in a different class. But we all have to allocate the money we have. Most of us aren't in a position where we can't afford anything (now I'm not talking about those on this forum who have lost their jobs - been there, and that is a DIFFERENT situation!!). It is just what we prefer to spend are available money one.




Nicholas Savatgy 

AGREED, You have people that want things so they work hard and try to find a way to get them, then you have the cry babys that are mad at people because they have worked hard to get what they wanted while others didnt. NO need to say your sorry or feel bad for having or showing off what you worked hard to get. what cracks me up is people think this **** just falls out of the sky, but some neither have the desire or the will or the brains to figure out how to get what others have. not my problem. i'l let you in on a secret, get a frgin job or two or three like a lot of us have and then you can have your dreams. I'm proud to say my wallets fatter than ****, and i work 7 days a week to keep it that way. i feel no pitty for cry babys... none at all.




gentlemen, you made me see the light. 
the poor crybaby, that i am, let me cry a bit: 
when i had my back used up by 20 years of 12 hours 6 days/week i had a ranch of 2800 acres, with nearly 1000 head on it. 
plus a small, greasy 40 bed motel. 
and only ten percent of the last mortgage left. 
sure, it was my fault, that i did reinvest in those years instead of buying trains. 

then the lokal bank sold a packet of mortgages to a US-bank. 
that nice bank made me pay the WHOLE mortgage again! (there was a lever in the small print...) 
well, the cry-baby, that i am, i really cried, when i lost more than half of what i had slaved for. 

well, as i could not start over ranching with my spent column (here me crying!) i managed to set up a small supermarket. 
my wife manages the supermarket. i found a well-payed office job. 
same thing again - i reinvest, instead of buying trains. stupid me... 

and all my other hobbies, that is, why i am not in the 1000$ loco league. 
if i stop serving in our local volunteer fire dept - sure, that i can buy one or two mammoth-locos a year. 
if i were not so stupid to buy outmusterd fireprotectiongear from her british majesty's prison service i could buy some coaches. i'm sure of that. 
maybe i should tell my wife, not to feed those old native beggars anymore. it's not our problem, that they are too fragile to work any more. that would pay me two foot of track every day. 
and if i send my daughters in the fields, to do some honest work, instead of paying school-money, i might save enough for the postagecost of all the goodies, i would buy. 

see, it is entirely my own choice, not to spend big money. 
so, lean back, and be content, gentlemen. 
and ignore the main point of it all: 
you buy an expensive item and you are happy for the moment. and then you need something more, because your happiness wore off. 
i make some model, and it makes me happy every second during the weeks i plan, build, paint and adore it. 
and the difference between you, gentlemen, and me is, i don't expect you to admire my things. 
for me it really would be enough, if you wouldn't look down your noses. 
but, as i see, that i am expecting too much from you, i repeat: i don't fit in, into this forum. 

maybe, that in the future i will come back to participate again. 
but then i will make myself an ignore-list. 

while my original goodbye-post was meant to be factual, this post was written in anger. 

korm


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Korm
Well stated. You have the proper perspective in regards to a hobby. It is for fun, enjoyment and at times to share with others of similiar minds. Though you chose to pin point those that do not share your view I believe the vast majority would welcome you and your talents any time to MLS.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I think you controlled your anger very well, seriously. 

I have NEVER felt that people AS A GROUP are looking down their noses at anyone. 

Maybe I'm naive, or just not perceptive. I look at the larger group "response" rather than a few posts. I get a lot of personal email also, I go by the "consensus" and I really do not think the consensus is looking down their noses. 

I will miss your participation, and I guess I need to ask one question if you are really going... where the heck do you really live? The description is so enticing. 

Regards, 

Greg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Nicholas Savatgy 

AGREED, You have people that want things so they work hard and try to find a way to get them, then you have the cry babys that are mad at people because they have worked hard to get what they wanted while others didnt. NO need to say your sorry or feel bad for having or showing off what you worked hard to get. what cracks me up is people think this **** just falls out of the sky, but some neither have the desire or the will or the brains to figure out how to get what others have. not my problem. i'l let you in on a secret, get a frgin job or two or three like a lot of us have and then you can have your dreams. I'm proud to say my wallets fatter than ****, and i work 7 days a week to keep it that way. i feel no pitty for cry babys... none at all. 



Holy Guacamole! 

As a cash poor little layout guy who can never afford to be like the deep-pocket guys with three acres of track and a fleet of Big Boys yet still has managed to nickle and dime his way to a fleet of 60+ locomotives on a layout smaller than some of your SUVs yet I couldnt give a fig less about how expensive their $3K toys are because I'm having too much fun with my own stuff....well, even I'm surprised and a bit put off by this comment, and beleive me it takes alot to wrankle this leatheryskinned old rhino. 

Lighten up Nick, You need to look up Paraguay on a map. I really wonder if you had to import literally everything from 10,000 miles away if you would have the same mindset. Its not like Korm can just call up St Aubins and have stuff delivered the next day, even if he did have the deep pockets, just importing taxes on train stuff alone can be a hobby killer, so the guys from Austrailia keep trying to remind us. I think Korms done really well with his little RR given his location and circumstanses, but after this I doubt he'll stick around, nice. 

Korm, look forward to reading your progress over on the other site.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Korm, I for one would like to apologize to you. I did not take Marty's comment as looking down his nose at anyone, and I certainly did not mean for mine to be taken as my looking down my nose at anyone. I made my comment because this happens to be one of my hot buttons; how we spend our money. To me when I hear someone "I cannot afford something" it implies something out of our control. To an extent it is, however it also has a lot to do with our choices. And the choices we each make are perfectly valid for each and everyone of us. I personally do not see a problem with what anyone spends on their railroading hobby. I am sure that a person who has invested 10's of thousands of dollars does not enjoy his or her railroad any more than someone who operates their railroad on a shoe string - and that is what counts. I personally look with utter amazement when I hear of someone who owns 10 of a certain locomotive. I can't conceive of spending that much, but if that is what pleases them and gives them enjoyment, then more power to them. If one engine pleases me, then that is what counts too.

So anyway, if I offended you, or insulted you, I definitely apologize. That was not my intention, and it was not my intention to "look down my nose" at you. As others have said I have learned from your postings, and I am sure I would continue to learn from your experiences and sharings if you decide to continue on the forum.

Ed


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I just can resist replying to this one!








Ya know if a lot of contributers seem "well heeled", maybe it is bacause we made a few "right moves" in our time....seemingly we all started off this way. well this is not my case!

Back when I was just marrried and had 3 kids, I was 19, I tried to get into trains, robbed peter to pay paul, with N scale, had to let it go cause I had 3, at that time, mouths, plus my wife and myself to feed, ending up with 4 kids to feed and clothe. Had to work 2 sometimes 3 jobs to get just a little for myself! I have worked my ass off to get to where I am today

This is the first time in my life that I feel comfortable, not well off, just comfortable..I have earned it, so yes there are somethings that aren't good enough for me, even when I was struggling I had a high level of exceptance...that is why I work in a cardiac cath lab today...believe me no one gave me this job I had to earn it, and with the young people of today I have to struggle to keep it!

So yes I am at a point where I can buy things that are frivalous, and again yes some things are not good enough for me!

But to think I, or Marty looks down their noses at people is rediculous Marty has helped more people then I can even mention, and I have never heard him say 1 bad thing about anyone...EXCEPT me, but I know Marty and I am his little brown friend from Bellevue!
Everyone buys what they can afford, and if people do not listen to what you have to offer, you shouldn't take it personally, WE all take what we need from here and leave the rest...someone that visits here will, at sometime use what it is you have to offer. People are people, some are unfeeling and some are very special when it comes to listening to people...you can tell from the posts just who is what!

So I guess I hate to see anyone feel this way about anything here but, maybe you need to look in the mirror and really see just what is the driving force that makes you want to leave..is it the people here OR the people here not listening to what it is you have to say....This is a great site and I would hate to see you leave for a silly reason.....relax do your thing, do what it is that makes you happy, contribute, and if people don't realize that you have a special gift for making things that people like myself have to buy, if you stop and think about it it is you that has the last laugh!...right???

Stay...have fun! Marty is a great guy and if you hang around you will find that out for yourself...if you live close to Nebraska City, stop by his place in Sept and meet the guy everyone talks about..I know I have to see him at least once a week, or I get withdraw!









Never forget the golden rule "Its' your rail road, you can do what you want"!!! 

IMHO

Bubba


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

He did take the statements out of context from another thread not started by him. 
My statement did not even have him in mind. 
And Bubba ,,,I have a check in the mail for your kind words. 

How many times have Bubba and I and others bent over backwards to help others in clubs and at shows or clinics ,,then say one wrong thing at the wrong time and see folks walk. 
Its not what your site can do for you!! Its what you can do for your site.... 

I will just go fight the weeds.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

THX Bubba and Marty,

Well said! Both of you.


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Madstang on 06/08/2009 3:39 PM


...if you live close to Nebraska City, - location -in the middle of the westparaguayan semi desert

Don't think that counts as close to Nebraska City.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

then say one wrong thing at the wrong time and see folks walk. 
Ask me how I know about THAT one!!  
Its not what your site can do for you!! Its what you can do for your site.... 
That's one of the best lines in the whole darn thread imho. No matter what else happens here, it's the members who make the site what it is or isn't, and it's the members who set the tone for the place and for all discussions within. Worth keeping in mind the next time we type a post in the heat of the moment.


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

I think Korm is playing you guys. His sign off is from a book by Douglas Adams in the "Hitchhikers’ Guide to the Galaxy" series. The quote "so long, and thanks for the fish" is made by the most intelligent species on the planet, the dolphins, to the second most intelligent species, humans, right before the dolphins leave and the planet is destroyed. I think he thinks you are all in the second group. I could be wrong and he could be from the semi desert.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Bills on 06/08/2009 5:17 PM
I think Korm is playing you guys. His sign off is from a book by Douglas Adams in the "Hitchhikers’ Guide to the Galaxy" series. The quote "so long, and thanks for the fish" is made by the most intelligent species on the planet, the dolphins, to the second most intelligent species, humans, right before the dolphins leave and the planet is destroyed. I think he thinks you are all in the second group. I could be wrong and he could be from the semi desert.




*Agreed.....







*


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bills on 06/08/2009 5:17 PM
I think Korm is playing you guys. His sign off is from a book by Douglas Adams in the "Hitchhikers’ Guide to the Galaxy" series. The quote "so long, and thanks for the fish" is made by the most intelligent species on the planet, the dolphins, to the second most intelligent species, humans, right before the dolphins leave and the planet is destroyed. I think he thinks you are all in the second group. I could be wrong and he could be from the semi desert.


Nah, like me me he's just a Doug Adams fan, thats just a sign-off alot of fans like me like to use, I use the signiture "Dont Panic" on the other site along with that certain cheerfull robot image here.

Besides Dolphins are only the 2rd most intelligant species on Earth, while humans still think digital watchs are pretty neat idea. 










The most intelligent species on earth spent most of their time in research labs conducting subtle experiments on humans.


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

I didn't want to drag the mice into this, as they are not from the planet


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Bills on 06/08/2009 5:17 PM
I think Korm is playing you guys. His sign off is from a book by Douglas Adams in the "Hitchhikers’ Guide to the Galaxy" series. The quote "so long, and thanks for the fish" is made by the most intelligent species on the planet, the dolphins, to the second most intelligent species, humans, right before the dolphins leave and the planet is destroyed. I think he thinks you are all in the second group. I could be wrong and he could be from the semi desert.

Hardly sophisticated dissing. Many know Adams' books and that phrase, it's even a production number at the beginning of the movie. The only folks being "played" are those willing to be played.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I thought the mice were the most intelligent species, unless you infer from the description "pandimensional beings" that they really were not of the earth originally and took the form of mice as a disguise. Thus, while being smarter than the dolphins, they weren't an indigenous species. 

Good book, passable, but funny movie. 

Regards, Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

for me it really would be enough, if you wouldn't look down your noses. 


Korm, 
I'm glad you came back and read the pages of supportive messages. As Dwight says, these Forums are all about the people who post messages. 

Sometimes you have to have a thick skin, or just remember that the Internet is like the wild west - folk don't think before they pull the trigger. 

But I'm curious about your issue with folk not appreciating your work. Just because they suggest other, more expensive solutions, doesn't make your project any less valid. And half the time they are just adding to the accumulated wisdom, not aiming a zinger at you. 

I have NEVER read a derogatory post here about some other member's work. Commnets, suggestions, ways to do the same thing differently, but NEVeR any direct criticism. 

You have plenty of examples of folk who feel strongly about financial matters. Which posts upset you when you were suggesting inexpensive ways of doing things?


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well im sorry if korm was hurt and disappointed- 


i dont ever like to think of anohter being hurt-especially if unintentonally


if my posts have ever been offensive to you or hurtful korm, , i apologize


i remember korms photos of his layout-i loved his creativity and trains 

but 

as a part of a US society in which we are all blessed relative to the world economically 
but for the most part we are not a classist society -if perhaps an elitist one-and we all say things that may have other impact never intentioned-not unique to the US i know 

some folks always have more and some folks always have less- 
that's the way things are 

it up to us to learn to put that aside and move ahead 

i am certain from reading korms post-he may well have less than others and yet he may have more than others as well 
its all relative and its really not important in the large scheme of life 



but one thing about 'interest boards' -be it trains, guitars, cars, wine, ecology, politics, etc


 


-there are folks that are 'enthusiastic' about the subject matter -perhaps aggressively-sometimes posturing or wrattling thier jewelry-sometimes in a spirit of joy and community-sometimes speaking thier mind but not seeing how others may take it-not always malicious-just maybe not as mindful -how much thought does the spur of the moment chat merit-sometimes- 



its the way of the world-you have to put things into perspective and understand its not unusual for folks to be in thier world and not always in yours-its up to all of us to reach across sometimes-works both ways 


 


frankly once you decide not to communicate at all is when the real gap starts


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

its the way of the world-you have to put things into perspective and understand its not unusual for folks to be in thier world and not always in yours-its up to us to reach across sometimes-works both ways


Steve I think you've summed up the situation here, its too easy for many to comment based solely on their own relative surroundings while forgetting that not all of us are in that same circumstances. We've had more that a few posts like where someone in Oz says there B'mann is broke, what to do?, and someone replies "just mail it to Philly" without realizing the OP lives across a rather large ocean and for the shipping costs alone he could just toss the busted Bmann and buy a new one. Korm was in a similar circumstance, living in a fairly remote location (anyone look on a map?) and where having the only hobby shop 300 miles away makes mail order in itself is a really big challange, let alone the shipping and import fees from overseas and the risk of damage in transit? It was the fact that alot of people tended to either ignore his location or just didnt realize he's in the wild wild west, literally. I think he got a little tired of that point being missed. The "deep pocket" issues are long standing here between the Ferrari crowd and the Toyota crowd, thats always going to be around, even I've gotten a little tired of it at times but, such is life. Its just something you have to get used to.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

If anything I would like to see MORE from those who have larger layouts and especially the MORE expensive equipment. I would like to know what works well and what does not. Those who have the resources to put into the higher-end items are in an ideal position to give the rest of us information that _could_ affect our purchases. I could not justify purchasing those higher-end items, either. BUT I might consider one for a specific purpose IF someone who had one--and preferably MORE than one layout operator could comment on specific models---came forward and stated the pros and cons of one of these investment purchases. 

I don't consider that rubbing it in for those of us who would not ordinarily consider acquiring the more expensive pieces. It is FEEDBACK ! SOME of us want to learn more about those products, if for no other reason than to learn why our decision NOT to purchase a specific item turned out to be a wise one. 



As for the larger, more elaborate layouts themselves, bring them on ! I want to see what the big boys are doing. Their approach is certainly going to be different than mine--and I want to learn a few things from them. I am always ready to pick up a few pointers from those who have already made the big investments in time and money. Why would anyone want to discourage that ?


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## coyote97 (Apr 5, 2009)

I´d like to try -as far as my english reaches- to put another light on the thing.


Korm, i hope you read this--and get it right--as meant. 


Lets think about Korms emotional experience with the garden train, perhaps (as he stated out) the only thing that allows him to go off a kind of grieve. 
The joy of finding out about a forum where he can tell, ask or discuss things.
The engagement to write there,
the fight over the discussions not to show everyman the sign: "i´m the poorguy"...
the disappointment of compareing results from uncompareable worlds.


Then i want to take a look at Korms story.
I have NO reason not to believe it--no reason than distrust or resentment. So i want to say: i have NO reason not to believe it.
I read a story from a man that was beaten badly by economical issues, like the property-crisis in the US. 
Its sad to see and hear how many Americans are affected by those criminaly acting banks.


Lets state out that Korm is a victim of those criminals. Seeing his whole lifes work going down the drain.
So there is a reason to try to understand his situation.
Call me green---i believe in the good side of people and i say: 


Korm, i understand your situation. I understand your grieve, your anger, i understand it in "real life" and i understand your frustration to project your sorrows even in a forum like this one.
Because you feel misunderstood. NOT understood. Derided.


Let me give just two excuses for the bad, the dark things that happened:
me (and perhaps many here, too) did not know about your situation. Thats first.
Second is, we are not guilty about it. Give us a chance. 


Let me try out something:
I´ll try to take a wiper and wipe away all this bad discussion.
What i do is nothing for a "hard mens forum", so men, turn around and whisle:
Korm, just let me give you a big hugh.


WELCOME!


I want to tell you about my experiences: 
I always tried to run after others quality and appearance. As long as i couldnt afford my hobby, it was worse.
My situation was not as bad as yours, but i was a poor lurker, too, and for many years, i worked for nothing than existance.
Time went by, and i reached some economical freedom for the RR, and i saw, that a wonder took place:


I did not want to compare to others any more.
i saw a wonder in every tie i layed, and as my layout grew, it got such a great wonder for me, that i have "an own world" outside.
and in good days, i am completely taken up with it.
But i have to confess, that in bad days, sometimes it does not work.


Its not the layout..or the locos...


Its our mind that is able to make us happy!


Its not the material that counts, its the idea!


It is your layout, your idea. It is, what you could make off it. It should be your happyness.


Always look on what you have..not on what you dont have.




And -one more time reading deep in your story-- there is another thing that makes your RR very unique. U have the benefit and backing from your wife, as it seems to be in your life.
So dont count the dollars spent...count every single Cent and see it as a golden gift to your heart.


Let me give my excuse if there was a comment from my side that hurt you.


Take my words as an invitation-- lets talk about cheap solutions, so we can take part of your work. And lets talk about expensive solutions!
They are not diskussed to hurt you!


See---everyone herein is a human.
We want our work to be seen, show how we have it get done and more...


And I want to show that there is more than comparing locos and layouts:
its a flow, a spring
a quiggling water where every fish can see new things every day...if he decides to take the journey.
And dont mind about the big fat stones in the river.
Even though they seem to stop you, it so easy to swim arround them when you learned not to give them a look....




ooops...got too long..one more time.


Greetings from Germany


and "cum on"


Frank


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Frank, that was beautifully written, and I believe it speaks for many, many of us here on the forum. Personally, from a selfish standpoint, I hope Korm comes back and/or decides to stay on the forum.

Ed


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

There has been a lot of good thoughts presented here for Korm. I do hope he reads and reconsiders. We are all human and each has a different point of view. This is good and whats its all about. You get a say here thats the main thing. Later RJD


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

I was going to leave this thread to history, until the last couple of posts prompted me to try one more time.

Forget the hateful posts and the amateur fake identity sleuths. Having to live with themselves is their own reward. I'm addressing this to the 'hey, not my problem/fault/life's not fair' folks.

While nothing much surprises me any more re people, I was surprised at the volume of that last. This, I have found to be, is one of the friendliest, most tolerant boards I've ever been on. And then that tenor flows out.

Have any of you paused to consider that perhaps, given Korm's financial losses and physical problems--how many of _you_ know what it's like to live (and work) with a bad back? How many have lost significantly, not money alone, but blood, sweat and tears in some long-term endeavor?

Could it be the man is going through a siege of serious depression? Would a kind word have hurt that much? Or failing that, silence?

Les

And yes, I know about what I've written. As well as bouts of crippling depression. I have learned something through all that that I didn't ever stop to put into words: empathy.

And I too wish Korm would come back.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Quote....*given Korm's financial losses and physical problems.... this was never the issue until you and a few others turned it that way. making bad comments about others. DID YOU THINK THAT THEY WERENT GOING TO RESPOND BACK? come on..... moderators might want to close this thread down as we see Les wont let it go...........[ AND YES I THOUGHT BEFORE I CLICKED.....] and yes i removed a sentance from my response but id be happy to email to you?


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

"amateur fake identity sleuths" Gee Les that's a little harsh.. I don't call you an amateur when you render a diagnosis of mental illness based on a post to a train fourm


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

touche (i need the accent on the last e) 

Regards, Greg


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Why not introduce a "Budget Forum" or "Budget Solutions Forum"? Given appropriate definition, I am sure that many people would benefit. Currently, there is no dedicated space for budget minded approaches. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 06/09/2009 4:16 PM


*Quote....*given Korm's financial losses and physical problems.... this was never the issue until you and a few others turned it that way. making bad comments about others. DID YOU THINK THAT THEY WERENT GOING TO RESPOND BACK? come on..... moderators might want to close this thread down as we see Les wont let it go...........[ AND YES I THOUGHT BEFORE I CLICKED.....] and yes i removed a sentance from my response but id be happy to email to you?



Nick, I may blast people out here on this forum and ye take the cake... I appoint you as a cream puff. 

Woof... and pls email me with your complaints. I feel fiesty tonight however pls hold off till tomorrow when I have a good nite's sleep, can travel back to my home and once again sit down at my main computer to review the most recent bitching by all. 



I am now beating your own dead horse. The poor beast is turning into dry hide status. 

Once again, I notice that Semper is dead quiet... did he run off the track or is this young man hiding from the whims of others.? 

I really was being nice when I referred to the "young man" bit above...... 

gg


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By n/a on 06/08/2009 12:06 PM
[...]
i make some model, and it makes me happy every second during the weeks i plan, build, paint and adore it. 
[...]
korm 


Korm, several years ago I read a saying which I think is very good, it went something like this: "In model railroading, as in art, less is often more". I do not know who wrote this originally, most likely I saw it in Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette in mid 90s. But I remembered it as I think it captures the true beauty of our hobby, a big part of which is in the development of your own creativity. Perhaps you need to consider this, that there are other people who see model railroading from your perspective. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 06/10/2009 8:23 PM
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 06/09/2009 4:16 PM


*Quote....*given Korm's financial losses and physical problems.... this was never the issue until you and a few others turned it that way. making bad comments about others. DID YOU THINK THAT THEY WERENT GOING TO RESPOND BACK? come on..... moderators might want to close this thread down as we see Les wont let it go...........[ AND YES I THOUGHT BEFORE I CLICKED.....] and yes i removed a sentance from my response but id be happy to email to you?



Nick, I may blast people out here on this forum and ye take the cake...  I appoint you as a cream puff. 
 
Woof... and pls email me with your complaints. I feel fiesty tonight however pls hold off till tomorrow when I have a good nite's sleep, can travel back to my home and once again sit down at my main computer to review the most recent bitching by all. 
 
 
 
I am now beating your own dead horse.  The poor beast is turning into dry hide status. 
 
Once again, I notice that Semper is dead quiet... did he run off the track or is this young man hiding from the whims of others.? 
 
I really was being nice when I referred to the "young man" bit above...... 
 
gg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

A "G scale on a budget" forum might not be a bad idea. People could share "here's an inexpensive way to do X." For example, I was just thinking the air tanks on my Aristo Mkado were to long and too narrow. Lo and behold, the cork from a bottle of wine we finished was made of a black plastic material and was exactly the right size. 

I like the challenge of scrounging parts from found stuff--might be a nice forum


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 06/10/2009 9:16 PM
A "G scale on a budget" forum might not be a bad idea. People could share "here's an inexpensive way to do X." For example, I was just thinking the air tanks on my Aristo Mkado were to long and too narrow. Lo and behold, the cork from a bottle of wine we finished was made of a black plastic material and was exactly the right size. 

I like the challenge of scrounging parts from found stuff--might be a nice forum





You drink Wine? ooooooooo nooooooooo







training while drinking is bad Sir.....


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Dwight, what do you think? Would "Largescale on a Shoestring" forum be possible? Best wishes, Zubi


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Not my decision to make Zubi. That would be up to Shad. I just help sweep out the place.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Largescale on a Shoestring? Does this mean posters will be limited to discussions regarding New Bright trains and accessories?


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

*OK, so I stick my nose into this forum once again;*

Are there dual classes in this hobby?


Is there the elite and the commoners as it applies to trains? 


Or... is there a common theme here regardless of worth, mentality, location, attitude or country? 

Rich or Poor... ok... I have an issue with this separation and the creation of a second class forum. Reminds me of the titanic... 


Thought that this forum would reflect the interested.... and not their particular stature that you guys suggest. 


Woof. 

gg


PS; pls vote me off the commentaries... I am getting too radical. 

cut me off.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

As to GG's "daul classes" 
I'd say there are lots of classes or groups. 
I feel really out of place on the master class forum and the live steam , and I hate the goofy forum .(I can't remember the name) whimsical
I get all pumped around big locos. I walk right past small ones. New long freight cars is a challange to make the RR handle them.
I don't know how to get around it. 
There are so few "modern mainliners" that I can count on both hands. And yes I jump when one calls. 
I try to jump when anyone needs help.
When I do clinics and folks ask me about CCD or what ever it is ; I just look dumb and point them to whom may be able to help them. 
I don't try to know everything. 

PS I think Zubi has a good idea.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)




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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Nick.... what never jumped when you called is your dead horse. 

Swear that this is actually your 1'st dead train.. bad experience yes?

Humor aside... think a common middle class here in this hobby. Realistically this is a hobby were everyone has a class act according to their layout, real estate and twists re technology preferences. 

No need to separate cost effective approaches as it applies to this hobby.. As demonstrated, everyone benefits by techniques which allows dollar savings. 


gg


EDIT: Marty.... valid points.. 


We all have our place in life be it our work in life, our hobbies and interests in life. I personally do not apply dollar values, but simply "personal reward points" for the dollars spent in this particular hobby which is unique in my world. 

And this can be $10 or $100 dollars. The issue is the return on investment and what makes each of us happy. This will vary by person. I spend dollars.... I reap my rewards on this investment. A personal thing here like you guys. 


I have viewed and know that you have a master set up! 

Please be proud of what you have done and I commend you here. I look forward to hearing of your future weed battles so that I can take note and learn and enjoy. 

This is what the hobby is all about. I have my simple set up... others have theirs. You have yours and I really wish I could do as what you plan for this fall. What a joy I say. 


For each of us, our own particular set up is unique and special for the individual owner. Sites like this allows us to be proud, beam and show off our individual successes regardless of "cost" or "real estate" .. 

Here we do not brag. Here we "show off our individual successes"... and be proud of it. 

WOOF... 


gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 06/11/2009 7:11 PM
*OK, so I stick my nose into this forum once again;*

Are there dual classes in this hobby?


Is there the elite and the commoners as it applies to trains? 


Or... is there a common theme here regardless of worth, mentality, location, attitude or country? 

Rich or Poor... ok... I have an issue with this separation and the creation of a second class forum. Reminds me of the titanic... 


Thought that this forum would reflect the interested.... and not their particular stature that you guys suggest. 


Woof. 

gg


PS; pls vote me off the commentaries... I am getting too radical. 

cut me off. 




GG there is no need for anorther forum some people would have you beleive theres a problom but there is none, we all like trains small, med and large. we all can share together.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

YO Nick.. 

You be the man here. We be the people... 


What is this constitution bit that you Americans have down there that us Canucks wrote for you guys???? 

Trying to remember... I am old.... 


gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 06/11/2009 8:00 PM
YO Nick.. 

You be the man here. We be the people... 


What is this constitution bit that you Americans have down there that us Canucks wrote for you guys???? 

Trying to remember... I am old.... 






Its called dont piss Nick OFF HE HE HE And i wrote it.........


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By GG on 06/11/2009 7:11 PM
*OK, so I stick my nose into this forum once again;*

Are there dual classes in this hobby?


Is there the elite and the commoners as it applies to trains? 


Or... is there a common theme here regardless of worth, mentality, location, attitude or country? 

Rich or Poor... ok... I have an issue with this separation and the creation of a second class forum. Reminds me of the titanic... 


Thought that this forum would reflect the interested.... and not their particular stature that you guys suggest. 


Woof. 

gg


PS; pls vote me off the commentaries... I am getting too radical. 

cut me off. 



Dear Mr Woof, I believe that wealth distribution in terms of large scale trains reflects, and follows the same principles as, general wealth or income. This means that it is entirely arbitrary how to separate rich and poor as wealth and income distribution approximately follows a power law distribution, the so-called Pareto distribution http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_distribution A power law distribution mathematically describes scale invariance - whatever is your wealth, there are always people who are much richer than you are, and they have many more trains than you do, on the other hand, there are many more people who have less trains, so you do not need to worry too much. You can actually calculate, for any given fraction of people, how many trains they have. And so, suppose that you divide the entire population of large scalers into two equal groups according to their wealth. You will find out that the more rich half has 94% of all the trains while the poorer half has the remaining 6%. But this fifty-fifty division is completely arbitrary! There is no characteristic wealth, which divides the two groups. If, for another example, you divide all large scalers into 20% of more wealthy and 80% of the less wealthy, you will likely recover the famous Pareto 80-20 principle, which states that 80% of the wealth, sorry - trains, is in the hands of the 20% more wealthy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/80-20_rule If you are interested, please read this introductory overview by Mark Newman http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0412004v3 To make a long story short, there is no possibility to put a valid separation between more and less wealthy - it is completely meaningless: "...for you will always have poor among you..." Mk 14:7 Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi 
PS the "Largescale on a Shoestring" forum idea is meant to stimulate creativity not to introduce any arbitrary and invalid separation between more and less train-wealthy


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Zubi, 

What you wrote was just fantastic and I am sure that there are those on this site that will examine your comment in detail. 

I for one am taken back by your analysis and read on the situation. Thank you !!!


Trust me... I will once again open this thread tomorrow and read your comment. I think and if I am correct .... you agree with my thoughts here however YOU have presented it in a different and *astute* way. 

Tell me if I am wrong and thanks for the engaging comments here. 


Between you and Me...... Sir Nick is going crazy here figuring out why his dead horse will not respond to your post... and Semper is googling every word that you have said. (Humor meant here... some of us forum members can be ribbed... and not get offended. )


Thanks for the quality feedback. 






gg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 06/11/2009 8:19 PM
Posted By GG on 06/11/2009 8:00 PM
YO Nick.. 

You be the man here. We be the people... 


What is this constitution bit that you Americans have down there that us Canucks wrote for you guys???? 

Trying to remember... I am old.... 






Its called dont piss Nick OFF HE HE HE And i wrote it.........


















Git over it lad.... who won the battle of 1812? 

he...he...he...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GG on 06/11/2009 9:18 PM
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 06/11/2009 8:19 PM
Posted By GG on 06/11/2009 8:00 PM
YO Nick.. 

You be the man here. We be the people... 


What is this constitution bit that you Americans have down there that us Canucks wrote for you guys???? 

Trying to remember... I am old.... 






Its called dont piss Nick OFF HE HE HE And i wrote it.........


















Git over it lad.... who won the battle of 1812? 

he...he...he... 





Tchaikovsky!


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

No... Brock... and git over it. 

Think the State of New York, go straight north and you will find a monument assigned to this* "BRIT" **
*

Soooo.... not Canuk... Canada did not exist till 1867... WE were *BRITS.*


Those *BRITS* did this and taught you guys how to write the constitution ! 

At one time you guys were* BRITS..*.till you had your tea party in Boston.... 


It was the* BRITS *who developed the first USA train... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 


It was the* BRITS* that really foisted the English language on North America. ( Prefer French personally) 


It was the *BRITS* that made bears color blind with their military coats of the mid 1800's. 


I have just opened pandoras box. 


he.... ehhhhhhh? (Canuk thing here) 


Bye the way, my brother-in-law is a* BRIT *so I can say these things and get away with it. My only cost is a *scotch *before dinner... 


gg


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Two classes - live steam and sparkies 
Two classes - gardeners and not 
Two classes - indoors and out 
Two classes - modelers and not 
Two classes - photographers and not 
Two classes - shoe string and not 


Clearly this :class: thing that has some of your panties in a twist isn't class at all, it's special interest groups - noting wrong with that. 

If I come to MLS looking for a Large Scale activity that won't cost an arm a leg and a kidney, which forum do I go to? I'm likely to hit someone's new $3,000 live steamer or someone's 800 foot mainline or fifty hopper consist. If I want photography I have some place to go. if I want gardening I have some place to go, if I want live steam I have some place to go. 

If I want money saving ideas, do it on a shoe string - I don't have anyplace to go. 

I like the idea. 

Charley


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Quote It was the* BRITS *who developed the first USA train... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 











NoNo sir you are wrong again....it was our own Charlie the Roe... so take that u,u,u,







GG u


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

funny!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Garden railroading on a shoestring--as promised


I broke and lost the airpump on the side of my aristo mikado, which is lettered for PRR. So I made a new one that looks a bit more like the protptype, and while I was at it added an airtank made from a wine cork and two plastic cable ties


The airpump is made from brass tubing and epoxy and a couple of spare bit from a Bachmann Annie











Now if I could fgure out how to make a Belpaire firebox, and take the homemade feedwater heater off, I could call it done


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