# Evans Box Car Weight



## rocketrider (May 6, 2008)

I have several Aristo Evans box cars with metal wheels and Kadee #789 couplers. I have resorted to adding a little weight to each car in the form of 4 large washers glued over the truck bolsters inside the car. This is the only way I could get these cars to track well. They had tendency to "string" when pulling trains of 20-30 cars around my curves. I have min 10' curves and most are 14' on the mainline.

However the addional weight with several of these cars makes the train heavier.


Any thoughts??


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you tried putting the cars at the back end of the train? If they are not pulling other cars, they may stay on better.

Chuck


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Throwing them in the Trash has worked well for me

Never had any good luck with them

No surprise there...............


USA seems to track much better Ralph.................


Nicktrain66


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Throw them this way Nick 
all of mine run fine after I removed the trucks and filed just alittle off each side of the things that keep the trucks level. not too much 
once you get side to side movement, no washers or weights are needed. 
I body mount all of my cars also.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I bought one years ago at THE BIG TRAIN SHOW when it was on the Queen Marry. Was a show special. I had trouble with it tracking even at the end of the train. I did what Marty suggested and it tracks fine. I have done the same thing with some trouble some shorter cars.


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Marty,
Can you explain a bit more about the filing? I see a narrow plastic of piece on each side of the bolster to prevent the car from tilting to far to one side. By filing these down, just a bit, wouldn't that let the car tilt more and make things worse? I have a half dozen of these cars, and although I don't have a big problem, I have had that problem occasionally.


Mark
http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So the trucks did not have enough side bearing clearance? (side to side)... weird... did anyone try backing the center screw out a bit? 

By the way Mark, how much do your cars weigh now? 

Funny thing, my USAT cars with non sprung trucks always tracked better than my Aristo cars with sprung trucks... never could explain it until I realized that the USAT cars were about 1 pound heavier. 

Regards, Greg


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## rocketrider (May 6, 2008)

Thansk for the helful hints.....I will try to file a little off the tabs. I have lubricated these with graphite with limited success.
If this works I will gradually remove some of the weights.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

3-4 pounds is a good weight for a 40' box, so 3-5 to 4.5 would be fine, you might weigh it first before removing your weights. 

When I started running long trains to get my trackwork in shape, I also found out reasonable weight was very helpful, besides everything else being in order. 

Aristo cars tended to be a bit light. 

Regards, Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I do what Marty does. File the tabs that keep the truck to rigid. Just a little so that the truck can rock a little bit. Never have had any trouble. I do have all body mount couplers and steel wheels.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Just use a three point sys... Never de-rail... Only have one end boster able to lean by filing down on each side of the boster. One end holds the car level and other end can adjust for the side to side of unlevel track... We do that to any thing that has a longer wheel base. Its an old Ho thing from the 50ths..


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

3 point would mean file just one end. It seems that there is too little side bearing clearance. 

I've never had to resort to 3 point on my layout, maybe I am doing something wrong (right?)... 

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10 Feb 2011 11:32 PM 
So the trucks did not have enough side bearing clearance? (side to side)... weird... did anyone try backing the center screw out a bit? 

By the way Mark, how much do your cars weigh now? 

Funny thing, my USAT cars with non sprung trucks always tracked better than my Aristo cars with sprung trucks... never could explain it until I realized that the USAT cars were about 1 pound heavier. 

Regards, Greg Yup Tried the screw trick. This worked for a while but the screws worked their way out of the hole. 

Another thing I did was to drill the screw hole for the screw that holds the truck on all the way through into the car. I then took like a 6/32 ir a 4/40 that was long enought to make it into the car.

I put a Nut on the end with the nylon locking piece. I tighten it till the car could rock a little and that worked. I also used two jam nuts instead of the nylon locking nut


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

I file all my Aristo trucks and reduce the spring rates. Then I go crazy and add weight to the tops of the cars so they rock like real trains.  

Just don't go racing around with them or let them onto unprototypically uneven trackage... I've got one reefer that loves to topple when the superelevation is going the wrong way on a sharp curve... 

Trot, the oddball, fox...


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I too do what Marty does, but only on the front truck of the car. I have made this modification to a number of my cars. By keeping the rear truck tighter, the cars don't wobble back and forth at all, but the flex in the front track tends to allow for variations in the warp in the track. I know RJ says, "get rid of the warp", and one can't argue with that, except for laziness!! I like having a little more tolerance so that I don't have to keep after the tracks as much. I had this problem with my 2 bay hopper cars, and it completely solved the problem.

Ed


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Any of you guys been stoped by a crossing lately?







Cars Rock back and forth all the time. Some more than others.


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

Posted By John J on 12 Feb 2011 10:59 PM 
Any of you guys been stoped by a crossing lately?







Cars Rock back and forth all the time. Some more than others.









Egg-zack-taly!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJmbo89Ult8 
Trot, the rockin', foxin...


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

sorry, just got another computer up and running. Don 
just place a track on a table ,then the car and bend down and see what is holding it . just alittle is fine. practice on one car, 
Guys don't over think this.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Marty again. Way too much is being made of this. A very minor mold change by Aristo would take car of it.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I know my 1 1/2" scale reefer is many times larger than the car you are talking about, but this is how I set-up the trucks on this reefer. I was told when I did the machining on the tabs on the truck bolster on the bottom of the car AND the tabs on the bolster of the truck, it is set-up like a three-legged milk stool. The tabs on the trucks on ONE end are just touching. The tabs on the truck on the opposite end are given clearance. On this large car, that clearance is about .040". In other words, it is a 3-point suspension. BTW, this car has NEVER derailed and it weighs about two hundred pounds and carries three adults. The physics apply to all scales.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I agree, Gary. That is what I was talking about. I only file the tabs on one end of the car. Solves all of the problems on my railroad.

Ed


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## jamarti (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary, where do you find three adults able to get inside that box car?


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jamarti on 14 Feb 2011 08:56 AM 
Gary, where do you find three adults able to get inside that box car?  That car is 16 inches wide, about 23 inches tall and about 68 inches long. Three adults were a squeeze I'll have to admit. But it was done a number of times! The roof comes off and the seats are boards that slide along support beams on the interior. The MAIN point I was getting to was that folks are making TOO big of a project out of making their little Aristo car track properly.









Oh AND BTW, this car has body-mounted couplers. NO truck mounted couplers in ONE-EIGHTH SCALE!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I have not encounter the listed problems with my cars. They all track well. Nick I'll take yours.

BTW Gary: The physics do not apply to all scales. If your doing what you mention in the 1 to 1 RR you'd be in violation of FRA rules for side bearing clearance. Later RJD


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

DELETED response to keep the arguments down to a sloooow roar.

I don't know RJD, how many BIG APES do you have in 1:1 railroads that can pick up a 40 footer and turn it over to file down the side bearings?









So much for your "rules". Chill a little. Way too serious here for trains.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

RJ lives in denial. Thats a place just outside of insanity.


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Greg,
The weight on my Evan's are about 55 oz. That's with metal wheels.
Mark
http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Seems to me that if I could avoid doing the 3 point suspension I would. 

Why? 

Think about this: 

One truck is made basically rigid to the body, it can swivel, but not flex. The other truck is allowed to flex. That is the "three points" 2 points on the rigid truck, and one point from the "free" truck. 

Sounds perfect, that it is self aligning (like a 3 legged stool), and the rigid truck keeps everything from flopping over. 

But, it FORCES the rigid truck to transmit the "un levelness" of the track to the body of the car. So as the rigid truck follows uneven track (which this is all about otherwise no need to modify), it FORCES the body from side to side. 

Now, if the box car weighs very little, or is very light at top, I guess that's ok, but if the car has any weight to it, now your trying to toss a lot of weight side to side. 

It seems that this could cause more problems itself. Ever seen a car with the springs "torched" so the axles ride on the bump stops on the body? It's never appeared to me to be an improvement. 

So, I try to solve the problem the "right" way first. So far, no problems. 

Regards, Greg


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

I'm with R.J. on this one. I take my new AC cars out of the box, install metal wheels. Then I'm good to run them all day with no problems. No adjustsments required. Even the kids & grand kids have no problems and they love to run in reverse. Nick, I can save you disposal costs. Call me, I'll come pick them up. I'll even take them if you don't have the boxes..........Yellow box hugger, coolaide drinker Jim


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By jmill24 on 15 Feb 2011 09:43 AM 
I'm with R.J. on this one. I take my new AC cars out of the box, install metal wheels. Then I'm good to run them all day with no problems. No adjustsments required. Even the kids & grand kids have no problems and they love to run in reverse. Nick, I can save you disposal costs. Call me, I'll come pick them up. I'll even take them if you don't have the boxes..........Yellow box hugger, coolaide drinker Jim


Quote
(Yellow box hugger, coolaide drinker Jim)


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

Nick, you almost have it. Put a beard on it and you''ll have me....................Jim


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By jmill24 on 15 Feb 2011 10:21 AM 
Nick, you almost have it. Put a beard on it and you''ll have me....................Jim



I think this one is a better fit for you Jim.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 Feb 2011 08:22 AM 
Seems to me that if I could avoid doing the 3 point suspension I would. 

Why? 

Think about this: 

One truck is made basically rigid to the body, it can swivel, but not flex. The other truck is allowed to flex. That is the "three points" 2 points on the rigid truck, and one point from the "free" truck. 

Sounds perfect, that it is self aligning (like a 3 legged stool), and the rigid truck keeps everything from flopping over. 

But, it FORCES the rigid truck to transmit the "un levelness" of the track to the body of the car. So as the rigid truck follows uneven track (which this is all about otherwise no need to modify), it FORCES the body from side to side. 

Now, if the box car weighs very little, or is very light at top, I guess that's ok, but if the car has any weight to it, now your trying to toss a lot of weight side to side. 

It seems that this could cause more problems itself. Ever seen a car with the springs "torched" so the axles ride on the bump stops on the body? It's never appeared to me to be an improvement. 

So, I try to solve the problem the "right" way first. So far, no problems. 

Regards, Greg 

..........................................................................................................

I agree with you Greg. You can only do so much with a three point sys. 
We been watching the post and seems like this is like living up in the mountains with a dirt road you have to use with lots of deep ruts in it.. But don't fix the road, buy a Hummer. Then don't have to work on or worry about the deep ruts.. 
Maybe just fix the darn bad track might help some. 
Weights are fine to a limit until you can't pull your long trains. They slows down on curves and de-rail, also still have that bad side to side stuff. 
Just my two six bits worth working in mfg. plants with small rail sys.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, there have to be compromises somewhere... wait until you find out about the new Aristo wheel flanges... there's such a thing as trying too hard to be prototype dimensions. 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with fixing bad track, but thats NOT why I filed mine. I could clearly see a difference in flexability. 
All my cars are "messed" with before they even hit the track. I call it playing with them or doing what I feel is best for MY RR. 
Wheres my glass of kool-aid???


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I couldn't agree more with you, Marty. I have found the matter of making one truck on each car (generally the front one) have more side to side flex doesn't make the car sway anymore than stock, and yet it solves my derailments totally. And for those of you who say we should improve our trackwork, you too are absolutely correct. It is just that when I make the "truck mod" I don't have to work on my track anywhere near as often!! I'm inherently lazy, so less work means more fun running trains.

Ed


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep folks always trying to take the easy way out. Why folks want to keep messing with the cars. Go to the root cause. Marty must have a bunch of botched up cars. 

Lets just say I put my RR experience to work and I run trains with out problems. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

easy for new track work to be good, wait 8 years and see how it fairs out. 
plus the longer the trains the more chance of issues.
I was out looking for a place to build a covered spot just for the coal train. That would free up some space for me.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not trying to fan the flames, but the longer my track is in place, the less I have to fool with it, since all the initial settling is done, and I've worked out any drainage problems, or major track problems. 

I find new track needs the most attention at first. Could this be the difference between free floating and concrete roadbed? 

After about 7 years, it's pretty darn stable, all free floating, and most of it gets "watered" every other day. 

I run trains up to 45 cars long (have run 50, but wheelslip on grades, need another E8b !) 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Well anyway, just tring to help the guy out. with an easy way...
since I'm not a retired railroader.

Richard came over this after noon to run trains and we did not have any problems










The above area was just completed before winter and I still need to get steps and walk way installed.

We kept pulling different strings or cars out and running on the steamloop. Its a muddy mess and I did not feel like cleaning it up.










Northern ran very well for its first time, I do need to spring load the rear truck.
I try to be ,,"honest" and share problems on my not so perfect RR.










Even tried the Hudson on the turntable after all winter.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

A USA NYC Hudson, ?

You feelin OK..............

You could get 

thrown out of 

the club for showin that..........


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

*Nice looking track work..







*


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Noelw 

350 days of the year its just me. Thus I can bring an engine out of the shop, pick up a string of cars and head to main 1 or 2 or steam loop. All passenger service now comes straight out of the shop to main 1 then the others. 
I'm thinking about parking the coal train on 4 track above the left 4 tracks in the storage area with a ramp curving to the left. not sure yet. 
will have to re figure the doors.


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