# Shay drawing to scale



## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

In model railroader Sept. 1985 there is an article Baby Shays and drawings by Allen Brewster.The drawing is a 13Ton 2 cylinder in Two Foot gauge drawn in 1/4 scale. I want to build and model the Shay in G scale 1:22.5 Three Foot gauge. I enlarged the drawing to G scale and simulated the 3 foot trucks to the drawing since the only issue was 2 foot to 3 foot trucks.The 3 foot truck side frames came even with the running board which normally their inset a little.Most of The old timers have passed away and the people I’ve asked said that’s ok or may have to widen the floor.The last answer I got is the prototype drawing was manufactured in trucks from 2 foot to standard gauge.So my question to all of you out there is enlarge the 1/4 scale drawing to G scale and just fit it with 3 foot gauge trucks? Please advise. Thanks Alan.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Alan,
Welcome to MLS.
If the 1.75" gauge is to represent 36", then surely your scale 'should' be 1:20.5.
Or if you are going metric with a 45mm gauge, then 91.44cm (36") gives a scale of 1:20.3!
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

David Leech said:


> Alan,
> Welcome to MLS.
> If the 1.75" gauge is to represent 36", then surely your scale 'should' be 1:20.5.
> Or if you are going metric with a 45mm gauge, then 91.44cm (36") gives a scale of 1:20.3!
> ...


Yes I know 1:20.3 scale is perfect for G gauge track but I want to keep everything in 1:22.5 G scale because it’s smaller and close to 1/24 scale too and having an indoor layout I can get more in a smaller area and run equipment on commercial G track without the worry of re-gauge the wheels. Thanks for your fast reply.Alan


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## AnnaBerry (Apr 8, 2021)

that is the perfect scale


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Why, oh why, can't people learn the difference between scale and gauge.....

Gauge #1 track is 45mm GAUGE....PERIOD! (or 1.77165354 inches). There is no 1.75 inch gauge track that I am aware of.

3'-0" gauge using 45mm track is 1:20.3, NOT 1:20.5.

There are MANY SCALES running on 45mm track, including 1:32, 1:29, 1:24, 1:22.5, 1:20.3 and 1:13.7, all representing different GAUGES of track.

Changing the gauge of a Shay locomotive changes many things, including the vertical angle of the cylinders and crank shaft location. I believe they are still available through Precision Scale, a set of small ('T' Boiler if memory is correct) Shay drawing by Al Armitage, in 1:48.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

AnnaBerry said:


> that is the perfect scale


What scale is that?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Minersmountain7& said:


> The last answer I got is the prototype drawing was manufactured in trucks from 2 foot to standard gauge.


Shays were manufactured to many gauges, but the 13T 2ft gauge shay you refer to is probably the Gilpin Tramway [only 2' gauge RR that had a shay in the US.] There is a complete drawing of it in the May 2005 issue of NW&SL Gazette, and if you have the DVD you can copy and print it. (I still have a copy of "scaleprint" somewhere that lets you up or down scale a drawing.)










Let me know if you want a copy of this page.

I do not believe this design was ever manufactured with std gauge trucks, but who knows. This was an early design, and they quickly shifted to 3 cylinder designs.

The Mich-Cal Shay #2 was a 13T design with 3' gauge trucks. It wouldn't be difficult to make a smaller cab and stack and call it 1/24th scale!










As pointed out by Armorsmith (?) if you change the trucks you will have to change the position of the cylinders to keep the driveline straight.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

I would like to amend my prior post to include "There is no such thing as 'G' Gauge track, it is Gauge #1". Only the 'Johnny come latelys' at the NMRA refer to it as 'G' Gauge.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

I would also like to point out that "Gauge 1" was, and still is for some who still make their own track, 1.75" gauge.
I know that commercial track made now is not, but I blame that on LGB!








1 gauge - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

David Leech said:


> Alan,
> Welcome to MLS.
> If the 1.75" gauge is to represent 36", then surely your scale 'should' be 1:20.5.
> Or if you are going metric with a 45mm gauge, then 91.44cm (36") gives a scale of 1:20.3!
> ...


Do you know of any Shay drawing out there that is 3 foot gauge straight boiler - 13Ton - 2 cylinder?


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

Pete Thornton said:


> Shays were manufactured to many gauges, but the 13T 2ft gauge shay you refer to is probably the Gilpin Tramway [only 2' gauge RR that had a shay in the US.] There is a complete drawing of it in the May 2005 issue of NW&SL Gazette, and if you have the DVD you can copy and print it. (I still have a copy of "scaleprint" somewhere that lets you up or down scale a drawing.)
> 
> View attachment 61518
> 
> ...


Do you know if there is any Shay drawing out there that is 3 foot gauge- straight boiler- 13 Ton- 2 cylinder?


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

armorsmith said:


> Why, oh why, can't people learn the difference between scale and gauge.....
> 
> Gauge #1 track is 45mm GAUGE....PERIOD! (or 1.77165354 inches). There is no 1.75 inch gauge track that I am aware of.
> 
> ...


Do you know if there is any Shay drawing out there that is 3 foot gauge- straight boiler- 13 Ton- 2 cylinder?


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

David, please refer to the G1MRA standards https://www.g1mra.com/pdf/standard-dimensions-for-gauge1.pdf LGB followed the G1MRA standards, they did not create the 45mm standard.

This is another rabbit hole, like the debate over the true gauge of '0'. Lets not go there.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Minersmountain7& said:


> Do you know if there is any Shay drawing out there that is 3 foot gauge- straight boiler- 13 Ton- 2 cylinder?


Yes, there are, in Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette for March 1979. Lima #122 as built and Mich-Cal #2 as it became. (This is just to cover page - there are one or two more pages of the drawings.)










There are 7 articles in NG&SL Gazette over the years. They are all on the DVD which can be purchased here:
Narrow Gauge & Short Line GAZETTE: 50-years 1964 - 2014 [NGSLGDVDROM] - $139.95 : BobHayden.com, Order Online!

I thought this was a fun page too:


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

armorsmith said:


> David, please refer to the G1MRA standards https://www.g1mra.com/pdf/standard-dimensions-for-gauge1.pdf LGB followed the G1MRA standards, they did not create the 45mm standard.
> 
> This is another rabbit hole, like the debate over the true gauge of '0'. Lets not go there.


I quite agree with what you say about the gauge and scale debate, but I would just like to know that G1MRA did change their standards a few years back as per your link.
Attached is the one that I grew up with, so we are BOTH correct.
There really was once a 1.75" gauge.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## CharlesTrains (Jan 4, 2020)

The Shay referred to in the article by Allen Brewster is C.W. North #1, a 2 cylinder ,13 ton straight boiler locomotive in 2 foot gauge. #2812 . of Yoder, Indiana .
A similar Shay # 2806 for H.W. Reed and Sons of Mishawaka, Indian. , Their No. 1 also. 
Silver City , Pinos Altos and Mogollon Railway in New Mexico used 2 foot gauge shay locomotives also. Gilpin Tramway locomotives No. 1 and 2 went to this railway when sold by the GT.


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

CharlesTrains said:


> The Shay referred to in the article by Allen Brewster is C.W. North #1, a 2 cylinder ,13 ton straight boiler locomotive in 2 foot gauge. #2812 . of Yoder, Indiana .
> A similar Shay # 2806 for H.W. Reed and Sons of Mishawaka, Indian. , Their No. 1 also.
> Silver City , Pinos Altos and Mogollon Railway in New Mexico used 2 foot gauge shay locomotives also. Gilpin Tramway locomotives No. 1 and 2 went to this railway when sold by the GT.


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

Would you know where I can get some drawings of the Pinos Altos & Magellan Railway in New Mexico?


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## CharlesTrains (Jan 4, 2020)

Do a Google search for " Silver City , Pinos Altos and Mogollon Railway . " Comes up with a number of webpage results and pictures of engines and rolling stock. Good luck


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

CharlesTrains said:


> Do a Google search for " Silver City , Pinos Altos and Mogollon Railway . " Comes up with a number of webpage results and pictures of engines and rolling stock. Good luck


Thanks


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## pjpickard (Feb 21, 2021)

Minersmountain7& said:


> Would you know where I can get some drawings of the Pinos Altos & Magellan Railway in New Mexico?


If you want drawings of one of their Shay's they were in an old Model Railroader from the 1970's Kalmbach in their infinite wisdom has taken down(again) their index so I can't tell you which issue. I think Brewster may have drawn it as well.


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## pjpickard (Feb 21, 2021)

OK, look here, it is May 1971


https://www.shaylocomotives.com/draw/ShayDrawings-by-class.pdf


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

Why not just look up g scale Shay and do some research.? Or look at Accucrafts, Aster, Bachmann Shays 
Jason


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

pjpickard said:


> If you want drawings of one of their Shay's they were in an old Model Railroader from the 1970's Kalmbach in their infinite wisdom has taken down(again) their index so I can't tell you which issue. I think Brewster may have drawn it as well.


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

Thanks again


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Would you know where I can get some drawings of the Pinos Altos & Magellan Railway in New Mexico?


Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette has a drawing of Shay #4 in the March 1994 issue. There is a longer aerticle about the RR in the May 1992 issue. Both should be available as back issues from White River.


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

Pete Thornton said:


> Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette has a drawing of Shay #4 in the March 1994 issue. There is a longer aerticle about the RR in the May 1992 issue. Both should be available as back issues from White River.
> 
> View attachment 61605


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

Minersmountain7& said:


> [/QUtOTE]
> Thanks


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Interesting ..... the OP requested drawings for a straight boiler, 3' gauge Shay. So far, all references provided have been for 'T' boiler, or 2' gauge. Can I safely assume a 2 cylinder, straight boiler, 3' gauge Shay was never produced? Someone out there must have the records, I have seen them quoted too many times.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Minersmountain7& said:


> The drawing is a 13Ton 2 cylinder in Two Foot gauge drawn in 1/4 scale. I want to build and model the Shay in G scale 1:22.5 Three Foot gauge.





armorsmith said:


> the OP requested drawings for a straight boiler, 3' gauge Shay.


Well, sorta.


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

armorsmith said:


> Interesting ..... the OP requested drawings for a straight boiler, 3' gauge Shay. So far, all references provided have been for 'T' boiler, or 2' gauge. Can I safely assume a 2 cylinder, straight boiler, 3' gauge Shay was never produced? Someone out there must have the records, I have seen them quoted too many times.


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## Minersmountain7& (May 24, 2020)

I haven’t seen any drawings either.


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