# R/C control Brushless Motors?



## tappeter (Feb 9, 2013)

Hi I am very new to Large Scale. I am trying to investigate/develope a R/C battery powered system. I am looking at different components from the R/C hobby. I have seen reference to speed controllers working with brushless motors. Are the motors in Bachmann Spectrum series Locos and LGB Moguls brushless?? I am looking for suggestions for an R/C Battery controlled system used with aluminum track. My ultimate plan is a Disney World Park themed railroad.


----------



## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

There was a discussion about this somewhere on the sight. I will try and find it for you and post it. No current G scale model trains have brushless motors in them. Also, I don't know if there will ever be a need for it either. It could potentially drive the cost of our locos up even more. Most motors are pretty robust and have no issues pulling our trains around for years and years. 

I for one am not a battery guy , but i garantee someone will jump in and give you lots of options for battery power. 

Some examples are the aristo revolution, RCS , Locolinc , and more. I can't give you details because I don't own any of them. Good luck

The Roundhouse RnR


----------



## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Found it-------->http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx


----------



## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

With all respect to Tony, he isn't the go-to guy for brushless motors (or else he was having an off day that day). Brushless motors would do fine with track power; just set the power supply to max and leave it there. Of course, you'd need radio control and a special control board to set speed and direction, but that wasn't the question. 

That special board has a microprocessor controller to convert DC (from either track or battery) into the three phases necessary to run the motor. In addition, some designs need position sensors to sense rotor position, but the hot ticket these days is "sensorless" control, which measures the "back emf" of the phases to determine when to switch the phase drive. 

The reason brushless motors will never make it in model trains is that they cost more (because of the controller board, not the number of wires) and we don't put enough miles on our trains to wear out brushes. Model planes need them because brush motors won't handle the current.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Go to G Scale Graphics.com There is a department for R/C controllers, Del advertises here and has already invented your wheel. Plus it's all Made in the USA. 

Happy Rails 

John


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 09 Feb 2013 08:36 AM 
Go to G Scale Graphics.com There is a department for R/C controllers, Del advertises here and has already invented your wheel. Plus it's all Made in the USA. 

Happy Rails 

John 
Thanks for the plug John, but two corrections: I don't advertise here, but I have been a paid 1st class member for many years now. And the website is GScaleGraphics.net.

Now, back to inventing next years "wheel" ...


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Well there you go! The older I get, the less I know.


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that brushless motors dominate the R/C hobby scene (planes, cars and boats) ESC's for brushed motors are very thin on the ground. There are one or two that are actually quite inexpensive, but they are only speed controllers that do not have direction control. 
There are a couple available from the robotics hobby but they tend to be expensive and the speed control is more ON - OFF than a smooth linear action. 

Both Del and myself make ESC's for the brushed motors we use for our trains. These have smooth speed control, directional constant brightness lighting, and sound triggers for sound systems. Mine also have outlets for servos that can provide mechanical actions such as uncoupling. I also have a Plug'n'Play ESC for Bachmann and AristoCraft locos that have the standard Large Scale sockets.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are going after realism, I would guess that you would want realistic sound also. Most of the upper end sound systems change the locomotive sounds in direct "step" with the actual load on the locomotive, not to mention the ability to time the chuffs perfectly to the speed of the drivers. 

This takes BEMF sensing from the system, and I believe that this is only in systems driving motors with brushes. 

Something to consider.


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

You don't have to have a sound system that reads back EMF to get the chuff timing correct. 
Most sound systems have inputs for mechanical/optical timing even if they don't use BEMF.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, that's why I mentioned that feature second, and the sounds driven by actual load first. That said, adding magnets is often a lot of trouble, many people give up and put it on the tender where there is normally no chance of getting it exact... 

But just info on why brushless motors might not be a great idea, something the OP might not have considered. 

Greg


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
I can remember a few years ago a certain well known individual expostulating that the electric motors as we know them in Large Scale locos were dead and would soon be buried. The way of the future was to be with brushless motors. 
I haven't seen any evidence of that ever happening with Large Scale trains. So I agree with you. In our field, brushed motors offer a more user friendly environment, especially for sound systems. 

What I have also noticed lately is, that there are very few ESC's being made for brushed motors that can handle the voltages Large Scale motors use. Those that do are very expensive. There are some low cost motor controllers that are limited to the normal car, boat and plane operating voltages. Usually an absolute max of 12 volts.


----------



## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

How about these? 
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/category/94 
Control them with ttl serial, USB, R/C. 
Up to 34v, 23A 
Small footprint too. Company is in Las Vegas. 
Not specific to trains and I've not used them, but they look pretty cool. 
What do you think?


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes the Pololu ESC's will probably work quite well for Large Scale train usage. 
However they do not usually have directional lighting outputs or sound triggers built in.


----------

