# Track expansion questions



## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I am about to start laying track and have a question about track expansion.

I am using Aristo Stainless steel track for the straight sections along with Train-li's nickle flex track and their Pro-US ties for all the curves.
My track layout plan is here http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx

It will be free floating on a crush+run base.

I was planning on using the split-jaw expansion joints on the straight sections. Are they really nessesary (I live in Delaware)? Should I remove the screws from the bottom of the Aristo track, to actually allow them to move?

Thanks, Ron


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## Robert (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron 

This is probably a useless answer for you, but here is my personal experience. I live in Ontario (Canada) so my track experiences a full 4 seasons. Unfortunately for trying to answer your question, I have all brass rail. I have no expansion joints but I was careful to leave small gaps (maybe a quarter inch) in the rail joints in about 4 spots around my layout. In late July early August most of these gaps are gone, so the rail is "growing" in the heat. Someone else here has done a more scientific analysis including pictures of some buckling. I don't remember who or where they were located. It may have been a CA, AZ, locale. I also use rail clamps sparingly. I have generally found them electrically unecessary despite using rail power. I prefer the rail to have the ability to move around rather than push things out of alignment etc. 

I suspect your going to find as many different opinions with solid reasoning, as there are MLS members. 

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Many people have good luck with emulating prototype practice. It works for the real railroads. 

The ties need to be connected to the rails. There is no way you can "stop" expansion. Leaving the rails fixed to the ties allows the expansion to be "meted out" along the length of the track section. The ballast acts to anchor the track by locating the ties. 

Many people try to "logic out" the expansion, reasoning that allowing the rails to slide will "equalize" the expansion and contraction. 

The reality is that the friction of the rails in the ties is NEVER equal everywhere, so you STILL end up with gaps in some places and tight spots in others. 

Stay free floating. When properly ballasted, only really long straightaways need some relief... if you have that problem, then put some of the Split Jaw expanding sections as you have planned. 

This has worked fine in Arizona, so your weather is milder. 

Regards, Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

One think I have done is to removed all the screws in the bottom of the rail that hold the rail frimly. This allows the rail to flex in the plastic clips that hole the rial to the ties.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I have an all stainless loop and secured each rail as tight to the next as I could. Using the little screws where possible and split jaws every where else. 
2/3 of my track floats in ballast and the other 1/3 floats on trestles and bridges. I live in sunny southern Az, no big shade trees, just a couple creosote bushes.Today it's going to 106. 
What I have found is the diameter of the loop grows more than straight aways do. Think of concentric circles.... 

I've never removed the screws underneath. The webs between the ties get soft and stretchy too....well out here anyway.... I never thought the plastic could slow SS expansion, what me worry? Nope yuk yuk. My hunch is the black plastic ties expand too. 

I made my trestle and bridge stringers wider, even added a center stringer on the curved trestle so the lateral shift is supported. I like to make my bridges at least a hobo to spare wide on either side of the rolling stock.... so nothing hangs up from summer to winter (got down to low 20's this year)... my seasons. 

Where you go from stainless to nickle may present problems when the SS has it's way with the softer Ni. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Your rail is going to expand and contract whether it slides in the ties or not. The ties are not the problem, it's the rails moving because they are changing size, kinks and gaps on the straights and diameter on the curves. 

 My experience is that people pull the screws in an attempt to not get the gaps/binds all in one spot. It never works. For this to work, the friction of the rail in the ties has to be EXACTLY the same for every piece of track. Impossible. 

I think over time, you may have rails "migrating" and moving a lot more, since they are unrestricted. Motion of a joiner right into a "tie plate". 

Regards, Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have Llagas Creek code 215 Nickle-silver track. I use the plain, slip-on rail joiners. When I assembled the track, I put a dime between the rail ends as a gauge to allow for expansion. I attached the track loosely to my elevated structure with fishing line, being fearful it would blow off in a strong wind.

When the track heated up and the rails got longer due to expansion of the metal and the small, dime-thickness spaces closed up, just like it was supposed to.

Unfortunately, when the track then cooled down and the rails contracted, the one rail joiner with the least grip on the rail slipped and that became the the only place that opened up. All the other places with joiners remained closed up. That one gap became the sum of all those dime-thickness gaps I stated with, and it seperated completely which would have caused a disasterous derailment if I had not noted it before I started the day's operations.

I am now of the opinion that there should be no expansion joints except in very rare and special cases. The whole track should just float completely such that loops or circles, in total, get bigger or smaller in diameter. Long, straight sections need some "S" curves somewhere to allow for expansion and contraction. 

Even after I freed up all my track to completely float in the ballast I still had a disasterous derailment when I became complacent about checking the track before the day's run; the track hung-up on something below the ballast and the track again seperated and my Aster Mikado made its 2nd 4-ft trip to the ground.


My first track was that cheap 1-ft long sectional plastic stuff. I had 40 straight sections on four 10-ft 1x6 boards laying end-to-end on the ground. I was afraid it would blow off and break the little molded-in plastic tabs that hold it together, so I nailed it down on the extreme ends of the track. I don't know the temperature when I did this nor do I know the coefficient of expansion for the plastic. I do know that a few days later is was in he upper 80's and when I came home from work I noticed the track had assumed the shape of a bell curve with the middle at close to THREE FEET above the boards. I walked over to look at it and just barely touched the track... It "fell over" and broke several of the little molded-in plastic tabs that hold the track together.


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