# The NEED for punctuation.



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I know I tend to "run off at the fingers" (similar to the euphemism of to "run off at the mouth"... and, yes, I do that, too,







but here everything comes into existence by fingertips flailing away at keys on the keyboard). I also know that I tend to use more punctuation than what was accepted practice in the writing classes I took many years ago.

I know I tend to use more commas than most English teachers would accept in an essay. And I tend to put quotes around words that need more emphasis in a sentence and that was/is not "accepted" practice in the halls of academia... BUT...

I would really like to ask some of you good, generous, folk to attempt to use more punctuation in your missives and to separate things into paragraphs a bit more. Some of you even run everything together without regard for flow or subject.

To illustrate the need for punctuation, I offer the two sentences (set off below) for you to attempt to understand what they mean. They do have a clear meaning that is evident if you know where to place a pause in the flow.

--------------------------------------------
That that is is that that is not is not
--------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------
Woman without her man is nothing
--------------------------------------------


I have triple checked my typing to be sure there are no typos in them. Those two lines are just one whole sentence each. Just punctuate them to understand them... but, pay close attention to that second one... it can have two totally different meanings depending on where you place a comma.

There is a reason for the rules of grammar and that reason is so that communication occurs. I know that e-mail and texting is supposed to be short, quick and to the point, but if your point is not understood, then no communication has taken place, and your words then become just a waste of what was supposed to be the precious time and space the short, quick and to the point missive was to save.


I will refrain in this topic from complaining about transposed use of "Then" and "Than".


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

i suppose i could add the punctuation needed but why would i do so i can simply use a modified communication and work it like this see i know you can read this okay since i can why would i want to mess up such wonderful sentence structure with punctuation i have no idea but if you really think it would help i shall consider it 
ontheotherhandifijustleaveoutspacesicangetmoredataintoasmallerspaceandsavebandwidthright


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 05/12/2009 9:41 PM
i suppose i could add the punctuation needed but why would i do so i can simply use a modified communication and work it like this see i know you can read this okay since i can why would i want to mess up such wonderful sentence structure with punctuation i have no idea but if you really think it would help i shall consider it 
ontheotherhandifijustleaveoutspacesicangetmoredataintoasmallerspaceandsavebandwidthright


Interesting how you have managed to communicate my point so eloquently by doing exactly what I was hoping to cure in others. I didn't really understand exactly what you said even though I think I understand your meaning.

But then... do you advocate saving bandwidth on the right only, or do you also wish to save bandwidth on the left? Or did I misunderstand your meaning?


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

hehehehehehe...this one is gonna get good I can tell


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 05/12/2009 10:28 PM
hehehehehehe...this one is gonna get good I can tell


Don't you mean, "Hehehehehehe... This is gonna get good; I can tell."


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

if u cn rd ths u cn gt a gd jb .... saw this on a matchbook cover so it must be true... 

Greg


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

hehehehehethisisgonnagetgoodicantell 

savethebandwidthontheleftsavethebandwidthontheright


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

isthathowyougotyourlastjobgreg


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

noithinkiusedasupersocketdaveandnoonenoticedatthetimethatthepinswereswapped


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

ifyouusedthesupersocketandgotittodoanythingatallotherthanjustlaytherelookingstupidandexpensiveyoureoneupontherestofthefreeworld


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe he used it as an insulated standoff to keep some other useless circuit card from shorting to the case.

Of course your comment has pointed out another annoyance in that because you left out spaces this thread now requires people to scroll the screen left and right to read any long sentences.

THANK A LOT! (and that is said in sarcasm!)


----------



## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

_.....................,,,,,,,,,,,,,,;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;''''''''''''''''////////////??????????>>>>>>>>_


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

youseewithouteventryingorusingsomethingsomeonemightthinkisamissdueprimarilytotheirmistakenunderstandingorlackthereoficancontinuetocreateissuesthatdrivethesacrasmfromyourlipsohyouhavemademydayyouhave


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... sorry, using 20" monitor at 1600 x 1200, so forgot ... 

Yes, I think that this is all in fun and you know we are agreeing with you. 

Of course I tend to have 1 and 2 sentence paragraphs if you've seen my posts... I found out long ago that long paragraphs make people not read them. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Just as long as you understand those who were never made to do it "right" in school are certainly not going to be convinced on an internet forum. 
Maybe the next thing you need to take on is spelling. 
Good, Lord, there are some posts.....


----------



## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

Maybe we can use the new compression program for typing...Sloppytypes


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

We'll get Stanley to generate a new "protocol" that WILL be adopted.....


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Ov cors, iv Id put a coma n der, r a semycolyn, r a perod, it wooda maid it luk rite. But now, ya givin da Regal n excuus 2 skip punchuatin fer a hol yer. Dang.


----------



## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

I know what you mean Semper. Things can have completely different meanings, and connotation with the absence, or presence of punctuation. I think the problem is, personally, most of the populous cannot type as fast as some of us, leaving a big gap in time versus typed information. Yes it can be a hindrance, but typically, the ideas are understood. In any case, so long as computers are the way for us to communicate on commonality, expect less than perfect gramatical skills. Some people are grammar geniouses and others are not. Emoticons fix the problem sometimes so you can understand the person's intent. blah blah blah, Engineercub types another response to a thread that most of MLS will ignore. 

-Will


----------



## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Here's a couple from my childhood. They can both be puncuated to make sense:

_John where Mary had had had had had had had had had had had the teacher's approval_

_Put more space between pig and and and and and whistle_ 
Sorry...


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Dad had a sign that said "KWITCHERBELLYAKEN" 

I have a hard time reading things without both cases and punctuation. Instead of reading the sentence, I have to look at each letter and decode it. I usually don't bother. 


Paragraphs are important too. Lost's huge block of text is simply impenitrable to me.


----------



## Guest (May 13, 2009)

you guys are supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!


----------



## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Wide own choo speaking lish soap pee pull cannon Durst and you if they speaking lish. Ty Ping is Jus knot kneaded win ape purse undoes knot re-dwell. Tude A aisle most like Lee bee were king so I knead sum thing to eat beef or there Ale road calls. 

Read this aloud to the person sitting next to you and it might make more sense ;-) 

-Wacky Will


----------



## Dave Crocker (Jan 2, 2008)

Time flies we cannot they are erratic


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm guilty of sloppy spelling and occasional bad punctuation. But this is my time off, this is my hobby. I've been spending all week grading undergrad papers, for grammar and spelling among other things, and trust me, this is not a job you really want. 

My own feeling is that standards are crucial but in informal conversation being understood is more important than being formally correct. 


Excessive punctiliousness about grammar and syntax in casual speech is something up with which I will not put!


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Excessive punctiliousness about grammar and syntax in casual speech is something up with which I will not put!


Ah! That's great! 

Wide own choo speaking lish soap pee pull cannon Durst and you if they speaking lish. Ty Ping is Jus knot kneaded win ape purse undoes knot re-dwell. Tude A aisle most like Lee bee were king so I knead sum thing to eat beef or there Ale road calls. 


I don't think I've figured this one out yet


----------



## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

For me punctuation is serious. Always means a trip to the hospital whether from a tool or a pencil.....


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I know that my hands seem to get "out of sync" sometimes and I spell "THE" as "HTE" 

I feared for years that my PC had a virus that caused the "R" in "YOUR" to be dropped when I typed.
(as in, "Is you train running now?" ete.)
Then I realized that I was definitely the one doing it and wondered if maybe I was coming down with Alzheimer's.
Now I see many others doing the same so maybe we all are... or maybe it is a virus infecting us!?!?

I also know that, because I mispronounce words I tend to misspell them...
And some I just misspell because I never learned the correct spelling in the first place.

And like I said in my first post, I know that I tend to go overboard with punctuation.

I agree that forums and text messaging are very akin to chatting with friends, 
but if you or your fiends mumble to the point of no one understanding what is being said, 
or if you or they use the worn weird ail the rhyme, wart gourd is taking with them? 
You and them would soon part company because you would have no idea if you have any interests in common,
and it is no fun for anybody if everybody has to keep asking what was said.

There are some folk here that may have some really great things to add to this hobby, 
but I find myself just giving up on reading what they write because I can't figure out what they are saying.
My eyes just glaze over and I skip to the next topic.
(And that doesn't count the posts that I skip because I can't stand the poster's attitude or language!)

I also recognize the problems of language translation. 
I try my best to understand a posting when I recognize that the poster is writing in a language that is not their native tongue.
I even enjoy the process of understanding what they meant to say... I love "language" study.

Even cultural differences can be a problem... we can greatly "insult" each other when trying hard to be "friendly".

I perceive that some who have answered this thread believe there are no problems here except those that lie totally within "ME".

I answer that by saying that I want very much to understand what everyone is communicating here on this forum, 
and it would save time in the long run for ALL of us if we each would take a bit more time, individually, to see to it that we CAN BE understood.

It make take the poster an extra minute to re-read their words and inert a comma where needed, 
and to type the "Enter" key to separate their thoughts into cogent groupings;
but that one extra minute would save each of the hundreds of readers of that post the extra two minutes trying to figure out what was said.

Please?


----------



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

_John where Mary had had had had had had had had had had had the teacher's approval_

_Put more space between pig and and and and and whistle_ 
Okay,

I have looked at these two for some time and I cannot for the life of me figure out how you would punctuate them.

Give me some Help!

Thanks


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jbwilcox on 05/13/2009 2:14 PM
_John where Mary had had had had had had had had had had had the teacher's approval_

_Put more space between pig and and and and and whistle_ 
Okay,

I have looked at these two for some time and I cannot for the life of me figure out how you would punctuate them.

Give me some Help!

Thanks




I am having trouble with that first one too.

But maybe to see what prompted the second one will help you.

"Pigandwhistle"


----------



## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

*What no pic's ???????? Don't understand and I put this post up on my 50 inch tv screen and still don't see what I' am looking for???? Thinking === mightbeofmist or foggedsomethingup...... *


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By noelw on 05/13/2009 2:55 PM
*What no pic's ???????? Don't understand and I put this post up on my 50 inch tv screen and still don't see what I' am looking for???? Thinking === mightbeofmist or foggedsomethingup...... *


Well... I have to ask then, "What are you looking for?"

Actually, you have hit upon a possible aid to understanding the problem.

The image on the left is like a post without punctuation, and the one on the right is like one with punctuation...

See the difference?


----------



## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe................... it would be....................best if............................... we paused..................... in the middle......................of our thoughts................................... like Mr. Jermey Clarkson.......................on TopGear? 


The problem.................would be...................... some of......................... the longest posts.......................... in the world!


----------



## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

I like the train picture on the left. But its not a comunistic picture the one on the left is it? Maybe its a draem


----------



## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

John and Mary were both sure they had used correct grammar. According to the teacher, John was correct:

_John, where Mary had had "had", had had "had had". "Had had" had had the teacher's approval._



Designing a sign for the "Pig and Whistle" pub:


_Put more space between "Pig" and "and", and "and" and "Whistle"._


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ho Hum!!!


----------



## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

If you don't like my puncuation, don't read my post!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree that better punctuation and proofreading would make things more enjoyable to read and clear. 

But, some people are not as adept and can take it personally if you are critical of their capabilities. 

Indeed, some people could be a lot better if they took the time... 

But not all people want to... so I find it easier not to say anything at all. 

One caveat: If I am trying to help someone, and they just do not take the time on their side, I will say something. 

Unfortunately, there is a small subset who are eager to get expert help, but not willing to invest much of their personal time to get that help. 

Those people I do not go to great lengths to help, because typically, they just take and take, and never give. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

For anyone who's ever wandered around town with a Sharpee adding apostrophes to signs, you owe it to yourself to find a copy of Lynn Truss's "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves." If you're not a grammar geek, you won't get it. (Allison shakes her head wondering why I find that book so appealing...) It's also been re-written as a children's book, with cartoons depicting the different ways a sentence can be interpreted depending on the punctuation. 

Mike, I had a college professor flunk one of my papers because I consistently put the punctuation outside the quotes. She wrote, "Great paper. Learn how to punctuate. F" To this day, I haven't forgotten that. (Though, in reading Lynn's book, the punctuation inside the quotes is an American convention; the Brits put it outside. Had I known that then, I probably could have negotiated a C-.) 

BTW, I'm loving these punctuation challenges. I'm batting 1000 so far. The "had had had..." one was a bugger. 

Later, 

K


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

"Let him who steals, steal no more working honestly with the hands." Ephesians 4:28 
"Let him who steals steal, no more working honestly with the hands." 

Punctuation is important!


----------



## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

I proof read my posts and often spell check by pasting the text into an email(my browser does not have a spell checker). But I still miss things all the time! I am not perfect and am more concerned with trying to make a coherent statement than perfect punctuation. It doesn’t help that the text is small and I am farsighted! that's why I like large scale. We all have different skill levels when it comes to grammar so for those who think they are superior, try to think of my writing as a riddle to challenge your greater intellect.  look a smiley face that must have been humor.


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I thought we wern't grading on spelling or Gramer. But Neatness counted.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bills on 05/14/2009 4:09 PM
I proof read my posts and often spell check by pasting the text into an email(my browser does not have a spell checker).


For anyone who's interest in getting a spell check, Google Toolbar has one that works practically anywhere on the web, including MLS.  It also has a lot of other cool features, and a lot of privacy options. Simply download and install it. I use it all the time, here and elsewhere.


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Eschew linguistic pomposity!


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Pssst... whose got de answers fer da quiz?


----------



## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 05/15/2009 4:57 AM
I thought we wern't grading on spelling or Gramer. But Neatness counted. 

Gramer ?


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles,

Talk about an exercise in futility!! Next thing you'll be asking for is that a chain be used to push things.... I've gotten to the point where misuse of words is more annoying than punctuation. Sucks having to learn English. Why did I waste all that time in grammer school? I could have just slacked off!! My favorite is the local dialect here in Central PA. Things "need fixed." Poor participles, they need some love.

Good luck, buddy. Keep herding those Cats!!! 

OF course, my favorite is on the TV show _THE SOUP_ , which is a clip show that makes fun of talk shows on E!, when they make fun of Denise Richard's reality show "Denise Richards: It's Complicated", the host always reads it as " _Denise Richards colon, it's complicated_" 

Mark


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Well, might I add my two cents please? 

That's all he writ folks ! 


gg


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GG on 05/15/2009 1:58 PM
Well, might I add my two cents please? 

That's all he writ folks ! 


gg









You want change for your two cents?


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

The exhuberance of your verbosity is too copious for my diminutive comprehension... 


gg


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GG on 05/15/2009 2:38 PM
The exhuberance of your verbosity is too copious for my diminutive comprehension... 


gg













Yeah, I'd noticed that, too.


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

smartie pants ... 



I will arrange for an errant loco ... 

gg


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GG on 05/15/2009 2:55 PM
smartie pants ... 



I will arrange for an errant loco ... 

gg 




When I was a kid, it wasn't my pants that smarted!


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, GG... when you were a kid, did your parents have to pay you to be obediant?

When I was a kid, I was expected to be good without being paid for it. 

And to this very day, I am proud to say that I am still good for nuthin'!


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 05/15/2009 3:04 PM
Hey, GG... when you were a kid, did your parents have to pay you to be obediant?

When I was a kid, I was expected to be good without being paid for it. 

And to this very day, I am proud to say that I am still good for nuthin'!








Good one. I made some serious coin for being a smart ass.


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By blackburn49 on 05/15/2009 11:12 AM
Posted By John J on 05/15/2009 4:57 AM
I thought we wern't grading on spelling or Gramer. But Neatness counted. 

Gramer ? 

I was using the FRENCH spelling the acent is on the second cylable.


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

The exhuberance of your verbosity is too copious for my diminutive comprehension 



I love that!


----------



## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

I want to complain about smiley faces- no reason I just like to complain. Don’t like that winky face either- it gives me the creeps…


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By John J on 05/15/2009 3:29 PM
Posted By blackburn49 on 05/15/2009 11:12 AM
Posted By John J on 05/15/2009 4:57 AM
I thought we wern't grading on spelling or Gramer. But Neatness counted. 

Gramer ? 

I was using the FRENCH spelling the acent is on the second cylable. 







John, looking at the French version and your emphasis on the second syllable : Should be Gra-MER or Grand Mere ... thus meaning "Grandmother" in English. As such you have totally moved this thread to a discussion of grammar as it applies to the differences between the French and English languages. 

Well done !


gg


----------

