# Castings



## Zonk (Feb 20, 2008)

Hey everyone,

I have noticed a lot of great steam locomotives in live steam. I have not noticed anyone building them on their own though. Would the work outweigh the cost in this scale? Is there any company whatsoever that actually makes castings for these scale models.

Thanks

Matt


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, 
check this forum. There are quite some scratch builders. And yes, the work outweighs the cost. But this is not the point. The fun in designing and building a steam loco far outweighs cost and time spent. There are some companies especially in the UK, who make castings; mostly for 1:32 standard gauge locos. 
Regards


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## David BaileyK27 (Jan 2, 2008)

We supply castings etc for engines in 16mm and 1-20.3 scale. 
David Bailey www.djbengineering.co.uk


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Mind you, whittling a K-27 out of a set of castings can be a somewhat long and drawn-out process not to add that it isn't also totally uneconomical. You pay a LOT to for fun of building your own from a bunch of rough lumps of gun-metal, cast iron, copper and bronze and iron....

You'll need a small precision lathe, and a mill, some pretty fancy measuring equipment, the ability to make small parts precisely [and I mean VERY precisely], to braze and solder, hard and soft, tap and drill, boiler-build, and more. 

And time. Lots of time..... 

Still, as one who has done it [not a K-27, I hasten to note, but a couple of Romuli, a pannier tank and a docksider, it's all worth it in the end.

As one poster points out, the main thrust of standard gauge live-steam in rough casting or even finished component form is based here in UK, but of course, all the models are of UK-outline prototypes.

You might like to look at Aster Hobbies kits - their models are mostly to Gauge 1 scale, although their geared locos are somewhat larger, as well as being unavailable in kit-form unless you find a 'time-warp' unsold model for sale somewhere.

I'm sure that if you care to look, you'll see the amount of care and attention that has gone into the production of each and every one of them - even the smallest is a true miniature of the full-size loco. 

No reason not to start today...

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Matt, 
If you are just getting started, check out the Roundhouse Engineering site. They offer machined kits and parts that will allow you to pick-and-choose what you might make yourself. While they are based on basic British prototypes, they are easily modified in appearance and are of the highest quality. 

Larry


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## Zonk (Feb 20, 2008)

Hey guys this is a lot of great information. 

David- Are your prices listed outside of EU in USD? 
Tac- Time and machining tools are on my side. This sounds like it would be a blast of a project to accompllish
Larry- That's another great site, thank you! 

I have also struck an interest in possibly building a live steam shay. I didn't see either company building R-T-R models or supplying parts for these types of models. Any help is still greatly appreciated. 

Thanks 
Matt


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Try the Kozo Hiraoka books. You will have to size the plans for Gauge 1 but it has been done. I have a Jim Hadden Heisler that was based on the Kozo Heisler book.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt: There are a few of us who make our own live steamers. It is a lot of fun and very rewarding to see your own work whizzz around the track. If you are first getting into it, start out with something small, like a single cylinder oscillator. Go to Vance Bass' website and check out some of the plans http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/steam/drawings.htm . The BARGS project is a good first build. Another would be Earnest Glazer's Cricket engine. Slightly more advanced would be Dave Watkin's Idris. All are very good running little machines.


A fellow MLS buddy named "Havoc" did the Cricket a while back as his first build. Havoc scaled up Mr Glazer's plans from the original Gauge 0 to Gauge 1. He did a very nice job. Another guy, "deWinton Dave" did two Idris engines, he loves them. Henner Meinhold and his buds do some beautiful work too.


Somebody mentioned Kozo Hiraoka. Definately get one of his books. I would recommend either the Climax book or the Pennsy Switcher. Kozo does a great job of fabrication and silver soldering techniques. 


Another idea maybe to buy a running chassis or cylinder set from Roundhouse and do you own boilers and platework. Or using some other commercially available assemblies for kind of a semi-scratchbuild. Check out some of "maculsay" or "redbeard" work as examples. 


They are a lot of time and effort to build. And there is cost involved, tooling, materials etc. But the result is well worth the effort. Here's a little project I've been working on far too long. Need to get it done:



















There are several very talented guys on MLS. If you ever have a question, post it, these guys have answers.


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## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

Matt,
It is possible to make lost wax castings in a home shop. I use machinable wax to build up wax patterns. This is really a jewerly process and that is where I bought my casting equipment.

Here is an examble of a drawhead used on a Shay.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

There are a couple of companies in the UK that have some British locomotives you can buy as a kit. Buy the chassis and once you are ready you can proceed to the next
step, ads in the G1MRA Journal. Barrett Engineering is one. Kits are rom 960 pounds up to 1800. No soldering/tapping/machining the ad says.
Links below will my not work if not, you copy them and paste into your browser(Exp/Firefox) 'open location'. Not sure why I could not get them to work, usually does. 

http://www.barrettengineering.co.uk/
Wagon and Carriage works is another:

http://www.wagonandcarriage.co.uk 




htto.[url]www.justtheticket.tv/ [/url]


Just the Ticket has a lot of parts for the Dee and Project locos of the G1MRA.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry
Barrett is one of the best kit offerings....so,too bad that-Regrettably we can not accept orders from North America and Canada, due to restrictions placed on us for Product Liability cover by insurers.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Rowe on 23 Nov 2009 04:02 PM 
Matt,
It is possible to make lost wax castings in a home shop. I use machinable wax to build up wax patterns. This is really a jewerly process and that is where I bought my casting equipment.

Here is an examble of a drawhead used on a Shay.









Dan: Gorgeous work. What alloy brass are you using? Are you spin casting these?


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## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

Bob,
I use silicon bronze alloy C873 see:
http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/Metals.php

I use a vacuum caster with a hand held cruciable. Here is a shot of my casting bench. The metal tubes are the flasks and the blue box is a burn out oven. Not shown is the bell jar for vacuuming the investment mix and flask to remove bubles. The vacuum pump is the black box in the back.










Kozo's methods work very well to make wax parts and wax is very easy to machine. Silicon bronze is a bit harder than red brass or gunmetal but it can be heated several times with out changing the alloy very much because there is no lead or zinc.


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 23 Nov 2009 05:09 PM 
Jerry
Barrett is one of the best kit offerings....so,too bad that-Regrettably we can not accept orders from North America and Canada, due to restrictions placed on us for Product Liability cover by insurers. 
I have heard this about Barrett, I think they need to get a new insurance company. With the increase interest in live steam and possible increase in Guage One the US and Canada market could be something a company does not want to exclude. Roundhouse and Accucraft UK sell engines to North America.

Thanks
Steve


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## David BaileyK27 (Jan 2, 2008)

Its not a matter of getting a new insurance company, we can get insurance to supply to the states but the cost is too much to justify it, we would have to put the cost of our kits and RTR engines up to cover it, the easy way out is that we ask our customers to sign a waiver of liabilty, then we are happy to supply. 
I produce Lost Wax castings for a lot of engines including the K27 which I built 10 off earlier this century, I can still supply most of the castings for the K27, I used a lot of them when I built my C25, and still have laser cut frames available for this engine. 
See our website for details of our engine kits and parts www.djbengineering.co.uk 
David Bailey


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

A Waiver of Liability, I have probably signed a hundred of those already for far more dangerous activities than buying a live steam loco kit. It might be a good approach to a company who is reluctant to sell to North America. Maybe it is my approach to business and engineering, tell me it can't be done and I start thinking of ways to make it happen. 

Thanks 
Steve


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt: Are you still there?? Any thoughts?

Bob


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## Zonk (Feb 20, 2008)

Hey fellas, thanks a lot for this great advice. This is a lot to take in at once. It seems to me that there are many different options, many different styles, and many different ways of going about this operation. 

Like it was said above, the cost is still going to be about the same, although you do get the satisfaction of building such a cool little machine. 

I am very unfamiliar with the whole wax casting and spin casting processes. After you make the part in wax, is this when you form the silicon sand injections? It's really all new to me, and I know it was a very used process at one time. 

Still pretty undecided if and what I'd like to build. I would surely love to build one but I would only attempt on a machine that is fairly easy to replicate and build. 

Matt


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