# Quick & Dirty Elevated Track



## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

Several years ago I undertook to extend my basic --totally unplannned--figure-8 over and under layout. However, any direction I went required an elevated roadbed. My pike is outdoors at 9,000' in the Colo Rockies and operates only when I'm there in the summertime. And the ground is....seriously rocky. The normal suggestions for building an elevated roadbed involve digging down or pushing down foundations into the ground. This ground however is so rocky that those normal suggestions just aren't feasible. On an MLS thread that I started back then looking for guidance, one of our Canadian members posted a photo that showed how his club used a concrete block as a base and this started me off. That summer (2007) I put in the first extension which was about 24" at the highest. It was so easy that the next summer I put in an even larger one, with track elevated about 5 feet off the ground. I used commercially available concrete blocks used to support deck bases that are cast to accept vertical 4 x 4's. Because our ground is subject to frost, a local guy suggested I base the blocks on sand as sand could be adjusted easily in the future. Rather than have the track base (redwood 2 x 4's and 2 x 6's) rest on the top of the 4 x 4's, I cut the 4 x 4's an inch or two short of the needed final grade and used a short 1 x 2 block screwed into the sides of the 4 x 4's to reach the final grade, attaching the former to the latter with two screws. The track base rests on the top of the 1 x 2's and is scrwed into the tops of the blocks. If the ground shifts from season to season I can simply re-screw the 1 x 2 block to restore grade. (However, in 3 years I have not yet had to do so.) I know that this elevated track is far from prototypical and for those of us who have the time, inclination and talent to construct something more pleasing, this approach may not be helpful. However, I was amazed at how easily and quickly this type of construction can be done and....having experienced working with so much of my pike on the ground (Ohhh, my aching back!), if I had it to do over again, I would build it all elevated. This layout is primarily (???!) for my grandchildren, of whom I have eight. (Who am I kidding?) Another factor is the wildlife. We have so much deer and in the winter elk coming through our area that it didn't seem to warrant putting in anything that was too permanent. However, again I have been surprised at how the wildlife will jump over and even squeeze under this structure without damaging it. (I do have a bridge that I take out in the winter so big elk can get through if they want.....they can go whereever they want!) Anyhow, hope this helps someone.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

It looks great. One question though: Have you ever had a derailment where one of your engines "took the plunge" so to speak? I always get a little nervous when I am running without any "safety net!"


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## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

gdancer - no problems with the first post - the extra pictures are worth any "creative" formatting  This is exactly what i was looking for - my one big question is how sturdy are the 4x4 posts? I was very concerned that over a long straight run it would be very easy for the roadbed to tip over especially at higher elevations. In a loop or oval this isn't so much an issue as you kind of have a deck with the center cut out...still pretty stable. Also how far apart are the posts? From the pictures I am guessing around three feet?


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## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

Steve.... Perhaps it's "a victory of the uncluttered mind", but we've had no plunges, despite extended operating periods. The grandkids, 5 to 16 have been instructed to go "slow" over the high bridge. Also, the trestles are low grade and I work to keep them level, checking grade and level every summer before starting up for the season. My main problem is with little visitors who are tempted to touch the cars as they cross the elevated tracks. That takes careful watching! 

FS.... The base of the 4 x 4's is glued into the concrete bases pretty thoroughly with polyurethane construction adhesive--the kind that glues everything. When it dries the verticals and bases are integral and quite rigid....more than you might expect. The weight of the bases is such that the track is very steady and it would take a fairly serious effort to "tip" the roadbed. I originally started with 30" intervals and have extended that somewhat up to 36". I wouldn't want to go beyond that, however, and would probably recommend the 30" intervals if the track is liocated close to people who might mess with it.


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## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

Steve..... Also, I check the entire right of way before operating over the elevations to make sure twigs, leaves, squirrel leavings, etc are not present on the ROW.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dick

Just so you see that it does work.


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## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

gdancer, 

Thank you for the info...it was that bit about "glue" that I was missing  I was wondering how things stayed put. 30"-36" sounds good to me. Time for a trip to home depot!


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## TwistedXT (Mar 26, 2010)

Very good solution! I might be stealing your idea once my layout design is completed. I have a feeling i will be needing some elevated trestles....


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Their you have it...Quick and easy...Real Nice job!.. 

Run them high and everyone watches.....enjoy... 

A Safety Net is for Sissy's.....No guts no Glory.....


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By livesteam53 on 27 Apr 2010 05:12 PM 
Their you have it...Quick and easy...Real Nice job!.. 

Run them high and everyone watches.....enjoy... 

A Safety Net is for Sissy's.....No guts no Glory..... 


Hmmm... is posting the result on YouTube akin to "glory"???



I will make a strong recommendation to put a "landing pad" of about twice an engine's length and width on each side of the track and on each end of any switches or crossovers, or anyplace where the engine MIGHT derail! I will also strongly advise you to inspect the track EVERY time you begin a run... I did for a long time and never found a problem, until one Sunday afternoon, I got lazy and didn't... The track had separated on the other side of my Eastend loopback... unfortunately, no video of that catastrophe exists.


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## tmmhead (Feb 22, 2008)

Line clearing is what Diesels where made for and I usually send them out to make sure that the track is clear. Once they've survived a lap or two then I roll out the steam engines. Let's face it the diesel is much more easier to replace or repair then the damage done to a steam engine.

Tim


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If'n it were a Diseasal, I'd be in hopes it would fall!


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

That was too painful to watch. Dennis


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## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

C.T..... I admire your sang froid (?) in publicizing your disaster. Sic transit..... There, but for the grace of God....etc. 

Might add that the track on the elevated portions of the layout is screwed down to prevent separations and do not recommend switches on the elevated portions without adequate protective fences or 'landing pads' (?) in case of a split switch or worse. Fortunately....I do not have any diesels to run interference for my steamers. (Love the age of steam too much!) 

C.T.....many thanks for the wise words of experience..... Forewarned is forearmed. Dick


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Quick yes. Dirtty no. It looks rather clean and neat . Great I dea. You just gave me a idea for another project .


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for this thread John! 
I like your deck block concept.. 

I have been waffling back-and-forth between putting PVC posts in the ground, or using 4x4 legs on deck blocks, just sitting on the ground.. 
I have much evidence that deck blocks work fine for live steam tracks around here.. 
but still, its amazing the amount of confliting info there is out on the internet about all this.  

"do it right, dig post holes below the frost line" 
"deck blocks will still move around with frost heave" 
"deck blocks are dead-solid..no problems" 
etc etc etc.. 

and to make it worse, I have VERY heavy clay soil..which naturally is the worst kind when it comes to frost heave!  
Just thought I would post this interesting tidbit concerning deck blocks sitting on the ground: 

By the way, I spoke with a head honco at Dek-Blok, one of the main manufacturers of these types of foundations, and he specifically said to put them down on levelled DIRT, not on gravel or sand. He did say that I could put it on gravel/sand if I wanted, but I'd just be wasting time and effort. He says it's unnecessary to do anything other than strip off the grass from the soil, level it out with a garden trowel or even a flat edged shovel, and place the block on that. 


From this thread: 
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/floating-deck-concept-726215/ 
Deck blocks in Canada.. 

Scot


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## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

Scottychaos..... I've assumed that the rocky soil I'm working with is subject to frost heaves. The local guy who lives at 9000' year-round advised I place in level sand, and maybe that's because the rocks do move. 40 below zero is not unheard of in this area and 30 below zero Farenheit is common in the winter. OTOH, I'd agree with you that clay soil, abosorbing more moisture, getting frozen, etc, etc. may even give more heaves at much lower temperatures. Doesn't make much difference once it freezes how cold it gets! All I can say is that I've had my first deck block trestle up for 2 winters and I've not had to adjust grade. My second effort, the "high level" has been through one winter without difficulty. I won't be able to get to my layout until mid June to see how they've fared over the last (2009-10) winter, but will be happy to update this thread with my current observation. I'd say that a larger concern for stability is the wildlife. (I'll try to post a photo. Wish me luck!)


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## gdancer (Feb 19, 2008)

These may be a greater threat to grade level, etc. than frost heaves!!


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

gdancer I like your use of the deck blocks for your rocky soil. 

I would recomend that if people have alot of deer and elk traffic that they elevate the whole railroad. Elk and deer have an instict to step over any down and fallen trees, hence they would be expected to step over elevated track, even if it was just 6 inches off the ground. Track on the ground would be stepped on, with damage depending upon how well it was supported underneath. I would at least expect a rail kink. Now you wouldn't want any damage as they jump over the track, maybe keep the height to under 4 feet? 

Terl


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## [email protected] (Nov 23, 2016)

I can't wait for spring to elevate by layout. After 16 years on my hands and knees I was about to give up. Thanks for the hope.


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## HOMEINLEMITAR (Dec 2, 2018)

*Reply to concrete base*



gdancer said:


> Steve.... Perhaps it's "a victory of the uncluttered mind", but we've had no plunges, despite extended operating periods. The grandkids, 5 to 16 have been instructed to go "slow" over the high bridge. Also, the trestles are low grade and I work to keep them level, checking grade and level every summer before starting up for the season. My main problem is with little visitors who are tempted to touch the cars as they cross the elevated tracks. That takes careful watching!
> 
> FS.... The base of the 4 x 4's is glued into the concrete bases pretty thoroughly with polyurethane construction adhesive--the kind that glues everything. When it dries the verticals and bases are integral and quite rigid....more than you might expect. The weight of the bases is such that the track is very steady and it would take a fairly serious effort to "tip" the roadbed. I originally started with 30" intervals and have extended that somewhat up to 36". I wouldn't want to go beyond that, however, and would probably recommend the 30" intervals if the track is liocated close to people who might mess with it.


DM... I was surprised and delighted on how sturdy the posts were glued to the concrete pillars. I would of thought they would of fell over.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> DM... I was surprised and delighted on how sturdy the posts were glued to the concrete pillars. I would of thought they would of fell over.


_You do realize that was a thread from 2010 ?_


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

Pete I don't want to sound like an you know what.. but if I had listened to Ya'll's saying (do you see how old this thread is b.s.) I wouldn't have found my Live Steam Mason Bogie! Nothing wrong with seeing them.. plus this forum isn't doing so hot really isn't much to discuss cause of the bury it type of attitudes. 

Jason


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> but if I had listened to Ya'll's saying (do you see how old this thread is b.s.)


Jason,
It's not that there is anything wrong with seeing/finding old threads - I do it all the time. It was merely a warning to a new post-er that there may not be any responses! I woildn't have said anything if he hadn't "Joined Dec 2018".


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## ddrum31 (Aug 30, 2017)

Okay Pete.

Jason


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