# Diesel power consist start-up sequence?



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Final preparation is under way to get a set of road diesels out for their inaugural voyage. I’d like to know the sequences of events to fire the engine consist, so here goes lots of questions for those in the know!

I want to emulate the prototypical start-up sequence for an EMD F3 ABBA consist, specifically Southern Pacific? For instance; the Engineer enters the lead A unit in preparation for a run; cabs lights come on first? Is each engine fired up individually from the lead A unit, allowed to come alive and then on to the next? When do the marker or number lights come on? When are class lights turned, prior to departure? Is the headlight always on if the engine is running? Was the Mars light switched on during night-time and foggy weather only?

That said I suspect yard crews fire and warm up the engines consist and subsequently brings it up to the ready track, in this circumstance while the consist awaits departure what is operating with regard to lighting and such?

How does the crew know the slaved units are operating properly, i.e., does each unit report/accumulate operating conditions under its own hood and send a signal(s) to the lead unit and shut down if there is a problem? It seems unlikely there is instrumentation to monitor each unit in the lead “A” units…

Regards,
Michael


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Michael, 
Oh boy you've asked a bunch of questions... Hopefully I can answer some of them. First off most of the time locomotives are not shut down. They keep them idling as it is added wear and tear on locomotives to shut them down and restart them. So depending on the era your modeling they most likely would be just idling when not in use. But regardless... Each locomotive has to be inspected every calendar day by a qualified person (ie, locomotive engineer, hostler, etc). This inspection checks various things from brake piston travel, to bell/horn working, sanders etc. 
So if I was to come across a set of power that was shut down this is what I would do. Starting at the lead locomotive, check cab inside area, walk to engine compartment turn on locomotive (prime and then crank prime mover), check engine compartment for oil/water, etc. Then walk to the next unit, check cab out (while in the cab check to see that the air brake and MU is set up correctly), repeat previous steps, go to next locomotive. When I got to the last locomotive, I would then release the rear locomotive handbrake, and do a inspection from the ground (check for flat spots, brake shoes, brake piston travel, etc). Then walking on the ground to the next locomotive repeat the process, knocking off the hand brakes. When I got the to lead locomotive I would release the locomotive brakes only if the air pressure had built up enough to hold the train. Other wise I would wait (the conductor/brakeman would wait as well for the train line to pump up so that they could release the train hand brakes). While I was waiting I would turn on the headlights, ditchlights (or mars light in your case), number lights, etc. Headlight would be on dim until I got ready to move, then it would be turned on bright. Then a train brake test would be required (either set and release or initial terminal test depending on the situation). Finally when that was all done it would be time to call the dispatcher and ask for authority to move. 

Second part of your question. If a locomotive in the consist goes bad, an alarm goes off in each unit. This alarm will trip for a variety of reasons (low water, low oil, hot water, low battery etc). The alarm says on normally until someone goes back to the locomotive and either shuts it down/restarts, or isolates it. Depending on what alarm is going off will depend on what you do. On the bad unit either a light is on, or a reset button is pushed out and has to get reset. 

Confusing yet? 

Craig


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Craig,

Thanks for your thoughts.... I'm modeling the Southern Pacific in the late 40's through the fifties. In this circumstance a west coast train known as the Coast Merchandiser, Zipper and or Overnighter which ran between San Francisco and Los Angeles with the aforementioned team of EMD F3 ABBA’s...

From what I can garner from various SP books, early on SP for the most part kept the F series ABBA consists together as a “set” and as such was regarded as a single locomotive. This simply means they didn’t break-up the ABBA sets of engines and or mix and match, in later years this practice would change.

Michael


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Even though it would be considered a "set" every single engine would have to be inspected on a daily basis.. 40-50's I don't think the RR's were to concerned about fuel savings so I would bet that those were kept running 24/7 except for when they went into the shops for repairs. 

Craig


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

In addition, many "sets" had permanent drawbars, not couplers between them. On exception was Santa Fe, who demanded couplers. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. Craig, any time you want to describe how the real stuff works, we're all ears!


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## Reg Stocking (Sep 29, 2010)

There is also the question of who would do the job. It might be the roundhouse foreman, whose title remained after the actual roundhouses were gone. Or it might be a hostler. Hostlers and hostlers'helpers were (are?) junior engine service employees whose job involved moving light engines within designated terminal trackage, e.g. at Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose, Oakland &c. 

This assumes that the diesel prime movers were shut down. As noted, they were typically left idling for long periods rather than being shut down. One reason is that they shrink appreciably while cooling off and expand when restarted. Repeated shrinking and expanding can cause serious leaks to develop, and cooling water in the crankcase isn't nice at all.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

If the units have been setting a while you needed to open all the cylinder cocks. Then crank the engine over a few times to get the moisture out of the cylinders. Close all the cocks then fire it up. That's what we were required to do on old F- units and GP's.

Don


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Michael... In your start up with your ABBA units. Ck your rubber tires.. 
I found two of mine on my GP-9's had one off the wheels. There stretched and needs to be replaced. 
Just had to put that note in there for your start up crew.. hahahahaha.. I don't think there is a light in the cab to tell you that.

.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I was imagineering the “start-up” of said F3 consist would be another aspect of modeling and or controlling my train and add some degree of realism to the ready effort prior to coupling the engine to the string of box cars. Sounds like I’ll have to be content with the Engineers boarding the train and readying for departure… 

Having the ability to individually control cab lights, marker boards, classification lights, head/rear headlights, AUX lighting, ditch lights, step lights, horn’s, bell, air compressors, dynamic braking, braking squeal, coupler action, cab squawk, smoke and engine start-up and lastly shutdown there is a plethora of options available to us model engineers to effect scale train operation………..

Thanks for the help y’all
Michael


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice to have real railroad personnel around to dispel the myths we modelers tend to believe.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 24 Jun 2012 09:40 PM 


p.s. Craig, any time you want to describe how the real stuff works, we're all ears! 
I feel like I can actually talk about stuff now that I'm not employed by the railroad anymore. When I was working I didn't want to say something that would get me fired







! Now I can speak freely and share my experiences, and opinions.








The interesting thing is that working for the RR made me become more of a prototype modeler. Before I was content on just watching the train run around without a purpose, and enjoyed the occasional operation session, now I want to model operations in a more complex manner, and represent some of the stuff that actually happens on the rails. Things like Form B's, mile post markers, etc.

Craig


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Now here is a question for someone (maybe Craig?). 
I am NOT very knowledgeable about diesels, but you talk about going in each 'cab' during the startup and checking process. 
On a B unit, did they have the equivalent of a 'cab' area where there were the necessary dials, switches, buttons etc.? 
I assume that you couldn't actually drive a B unit by itself, but maybe you could - just not able to see where you are going! 
Just curious. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 26 Jun 2012 08:34 PM 
Now here is a question for someone (maybe Craig?). 
I am NOT very knowledgeable about diesels, but you talk about going in each 'cab' during the startup and checking process. 
On a B unit, did they have the equivalent of a 'cab' area where there were the necessary dials, switches, buttons etc.? 
I assume that you couldn't actually drive a B unit by itself, but maybe you could - just not able to see where you are going! 
Just curious. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada 
A "B" unit doesn't have a cab (ie, seats, radio, toilet, anything that a human would need), but it has everything needed to start a locomotive, do a daily inspection, etc. Most of the time it is just inside the a door were the cab would be. Find the handbrake, and you'll most likely find the rest of the stuff close by. Some B units had a control stand (I think some old SF F units?), but most of them don't. Other locomotives that look like a regular locomotive are some times classified as B units because something doesn't work in the cab area (ie radio, toilet, seat). That's more common on old leased units were stuff gets worn out or broken and the leasing company is to cheap to replace it. So the locomotive will be tagged as "Do Not Occupy"
Answer your question?

Craig


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Craig, 
Thank you, more or less. 
I am looking at drawings of an F3 and an F3B. 
I note that they show a 'control stand' on the A, but NOT the B. 
But they both have a 'control cabinet'. 
So, using the 'control CABINET', could the B unit be moved under just it's own power alone? 
Regards, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, and you stick your head out a porthole as I understand it. 

Greg


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 27 Jun 2012 08:55 AM 
Hi Craig, 
Thank you, more or less. 
I am looking at drawings of an F3 and an F3B. 
I note that they show a 'control stand' on the A, but NOT the B. 
But they both have a 'control cabinet'. 
So, using the 'control CABINET', could the B unit be moved under just it's own power alone? 
Regards, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada 
If they both show a control cabinet, I would guess to say that the control cabinet is just that, no reverser, or brake stand. Just a bunch of switches, and electronics.

To move a locomotive by under it's own power you would have to have a throttle, reverser, and brake stand. As Greg pointed out the SF B units have this in the back? (as determined by the placement of the "F" on the locomotive frame) and are able to be run light power. 
Here's a control stand







Just a random picture pulled off the web.
Control Cabinet. This is where the isolate/start/stop switch is located, lighting, dynamic brakes, daily inspection cards, blue cards, etc is placed on the outside of the control or electrical cabinet.









Craig


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 27 Jun 2012 10:47 AM 
Yep, and you stick your head out a porthole as I understand it. 

Greg 
Greg,
Do you have any pictures of this? I think the SF was one of the few companies that put control stands in the B units (FT, F3?)?

Craig


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's some good pictures of a B unit guts 
























Notice that it has no throttle, reverser or air brake equipment. It has all the air brake plumbing etc, but doesn't have handles. 
From http://krugtales.50megs.com/rrpictale/GP60/GP60b.htm 

Just found this! Official EMD Operators locomotive manual. Read through this and you'll get lots of information, and more questions too!  
http://www.kirara.co.uk/info/SD40 - Operator's Manual/ 
From the PDF File "The information in this section is arranged in sequence, commencing with inspections in preparation for service, and with instructions for starting the engine, handling a light locomotive, coupling to train, and routine operating phases. The various operating situations and special features such as dynamic braking are also covered"


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, I don't, I looked a bit, but have read what you said, that there was a minimum control stand at one end, and they could open the port hole and look out to move the loco light. 

Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

When doing research for the detailing of my USA PA units I found that S.P. had a single horn on the B units to be used during yard moves involving only the B unit. I don't know if that included F units or not.


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