# WINDOWS 7 OT/NT



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Who is running windows 7? 

Any one put it on a laptop runing Vista? 

Did you install it over vista as a up grade? 

Any input?


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Yes, I've been running it for a few weeks now (I work at a company that's a Microsoft partner and got early copies). I installed it fresh, but a coworker installed it over Vista on his laptop without any problems. So far I'm very impressed, although I did customize it a bit to turn off some new annoyances.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I heard a report on it today that its a simple upgrade over Vista but with any earlier OS version you should back up all your files and you will need to reinstall all your apps and such. 

-Brian


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Even if you do a 'clean install' if you only select the partition you want 7 to install to (and don't format the drive) you will get a folder called 'Windows.old', even if you do take a backup before the install you can get files from the .old if there is something you forgot to back up (Mail being a very typical thing).


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Yes 7 is just a Vista upgrade same way XP was a 95 upgrade. 

I find I always forget to backup my address book and the worst my favorites. I rarely use the address book and the favorite folder is not easy to find. 

I'll stick with XP for the moment, wish I had been offered a beta version though...


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been lucky with Windows! never really had any problems at all.. 
my first home computer was a Windows 95 machine, bought in 1996.. 
always worked fine..(I never used Win 98, 2000 or ME) 
2nd computer I am currently using..Win XP machine bought in 2003.. 
7 years after the 1st machine.. 
(so I missed Vista!) never had any problems at all with Win XP..its been great.. 

but now this machine is going to be 7 years old..time to upgrade again.. 
and im going to go straight to Win7.. 

I guess if I keep buying a new computer every 7 years, I will miss all the bad versions!  

Scot


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

I've been running it for several months. First as the Beta, and then as the Release Candidate. In my opinion it's very good.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I've managed to avoid Vista both at work (all our systems are XP Pro) and at home (again, XP Pro). Sooner or later, Win7 will be forced upon me, but I'm not going to be an "early adopter" as that's often an expensive position to occupy. I'll wait as long as possible until most of the major bugs have been found and fixed. In the meantime, they'll have to pry XP Pro out of my cold dead fingers.


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By stanman on 23 Oct 2009 07:15 PM 
I've been running it for several months. First as the Beta, and then as the Release Candidate. In my opinion it's very good. 

I agree completely, all the guys at work that was forced onto Vista now use the 7 release canditate until I can get around to installing the 'real 7'. Even the printer server runs 7 ultimate release canditate as that can cope with both XP and Win 7 32 and 64 bit. However I have not managed to get it to work for Vista machines... doh...


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I was told by Jennifer that her brother in the UK recently bought a new machine that had Windows 8. 

Would that be true and if so what gives?


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 24 Oct 2009 03:25 AM 
I was told by Jennifer that her brother in the UK recently bought a new machine that had Windows 8. 
Would that be true and if so what gives? 


There is no Windows 8. 
The latest version of Internet Explorer is 8. 
This may be where the confusion stems from. 
Ralph


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Hey Dwight 
I agree with you plan. I waited till my Windows 98 completly died before I went to xp But my Laptop is absolutly terrable. It is so slow and the pop ups drive me nuts.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

As Peter Norton said many years ago "Never buy Version 1.0 of anything." If I do buy anything with Windows 7 I will try to hold off as long as possible to let Microsoft get the bugs worked out of it (every new program has bugs). 

I've never had a computer or operating system or software that did not come with some serious problems. One problem that I anticipate is that as with previous systems Microsoft will reach a point and stop supporting XP which will force many of us to go to Windows 7. It seems that Microsoft stops (or tries to stop) supporting systems that are more than one generation old. 

The main question for me will be which of my older programs will or will not be compatible with Windows 7? I'm still using Office 2003 and some older programs so it will be interesting to find out if they will work with Windows 7. 

Often they obsolete older computers by having such a large footprint with new operating systems that it slows old computers way down. I've heard that Window 7 is not supposed to do that. 

For me computers have reached a level of performance that I would be perfectly happy to never buy a new computer or software upgrade but that will never be allowed to happen. 

Jerry


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

With Microsoft,I always wait until the first Service Pack before purchasing. 
Generally by this time the hardware and peripheral manufacturers have caught up and issued Drivers. 
Word is that Driver availability is better with Windows 7. 
Driver availability was awful when Vista debuted. 

I am tempted to buy W7 now. I need an OS for a system I have. I can't buy XP any cheaper than some of the deals I've seen on W7. 
Why pay full price for outdated merchandise? 
Ralph


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Don't forget that three versions of Win 7 also include a complete, licensed copy of XP. 

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/window-on-windows/?p=1688&tag=nl.e064


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been using Window-7 release candidate on 5 machines since August....(3) 32 bit, (2) 64 bit, it is very solid....I think Microsoft has a winner here, absolutely no problems.... 
But make sure and stick with the 32 bit windows.....some salesmen are pitching the 64 bit version as faster, most users will not see any increase in speed and older software may not take advantage of the 64 bit's and some software will not even run.....


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Did XP come in a 64 bit verision? How do you tell what you are using


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By John J on 24 Oct 2009 09:48 PM 
Did XP come in a 64 bit verision? How do you tell what you are using 


XP was 32-bit.


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

Although most people used windows XP 32 bit, Microsoft did make a Windows XP 64-Bit Edition 
Windows XP 64-Bit Edition was designed to run on Intel Itanium family of microprocessors in their native IA-64 mode. 
Two versions of Windows XP 64-Bit Edition were released: 
* Windows XP 64-Bit Edition for Itanium systems, Version 2002 â€" Based on Windows XP codebase, which was released in 2001. 
* Windows XP 64-Bit Edition, Version 2003 â€" Based on Windows Server 2003 codebase, which added support for the Itanium 2 processor, was released on March 28, 2003. 
This edition was discontinued in early 2005, after Hewlett Packard, the last distributor of Itanium-based workstations, stopped selling Itanium systems marketed as 'workstations'. 
You can still buy Windows XP 64-Bit Edition at NewEgg.com 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116378


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

John

To check XP

To find out if your computer is running a 32-bit or 64-bit version of Windows 

If your computer is running Windows XP, do the following: 
[*]Click Start. 
[*]Right-click My Computer, and then click Properties.[*]If you don't see "x64 Edition" listed, then you're running the 32-bit version of Windows XP.[*]If "x64 Edition" is listed under System, you're running the 64-bit version of Windows XP.[/list][/list]


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

There is a 64bit version of XP, but it's based more on Server 2003 than XP really. 
We have nine XP 64 bit machines at work


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

I once tried to run 64 bit XP on my dual cpu Opteron system. 
It was very unstable. 
I was getting 2 or 3 BSODs an hour. 
Naturally I went back to 32 bit XP. 
Ralph


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Windows has a tool to test your computer for compatibility with Win7. I got the d/l from a link at CNN/Tech, sorry didn't save the link... Under heading Things you should know about Win7. 

With the d/l are several directions as well, well worth a trip there, for instance; have all USB devices plugged in... 

Word on the street, upgrading from Vista is a snap, more of a problem with XP. One person suggested installing Vista and then 7! 

John


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's the link for the MS/Win-7 upgrade.

*Win-7 Upgrade Advisor*


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Steve checked out your link works good!! My problem is I just purchased a new computer from a major leading manufacturer, and I was told I would get a upgrade or the new Windows 7 as long as purchased between certain dates. Purchase was in July which is within theyre time frame. After registering kept checking the site as they kept saying will be announced when released, Now released, and when I put in my computer and the date purchased, they tell me that my computer does NOT qualify???? Isn't that a kick in the pants. The reason I was looking forward to replacing what i have is their top techs 6 of them could not solve my problem there were two of them, and Greg E. and I went through the computer, and discovered a bad driver or drivers in the two softwear disc sets they sent me. So now I have two new pieces of equipment from them and I have to use an older computer to download video from one piece of new equipment, and the new computer will not let me go to a 32 bit system from the 64bit system so that is why I was looking forward to the new operating system. Just yesterday told a representative of the co. the problems and he offered NO solution to any of my problems. The 5-6 techs told me they were forwarding to a higher problem solving solution or tech in the co. and no reply back. Very frustrating I will keep trying to get to the top or someone who IS qualified to help me on this!! Sad huh a major co. with no solutions????????????? Regal


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have the same problem with a new Laptop (w/Vista) I purchased a couple of months ago that I was expecting to upgrade to Wnders 7 at a discount. The day I tried to register it the offer had been withdrawn! 

I ran the upgrade advisor on my regular XP PC and discovered that it won't run 7. 

I think I will be saving myself some time and trouble and purchase another Laptop PC with Winders 7 already installed and have a nice Vista machine available cheap for someone else.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Right on Semper!!! I totally agree!! Regal


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 25 Oct 2009 12:26 PM 
I have the same problem with a new Laptop (w/Vista) I purchased a couple of months ago that I was expecting to upgrade to Wnders 7 at a discount. The day I tried to register it the offer had been withdrawn! 
I ran the upgrade advisor on my regular XP PC and discovered that it won't run 7. 
I think I will be saving myself some time and trouble and purchase another Laptop PC with Winders 7 already installed and have a nice Vista machine available cheap for someone else. 


Have you checked E bay... for Windows 7 up grades? They are cheaper than another laptop.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

John

In Semper Vaporo's case I don't see that he has a chioce. In blueregal's case he has a choice, and the cost of the Win-7 upgrade would be less expensive than a new laptop.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 26 Oct 2009 12:58 PM 
John

In Semper Vaporo's case I don't see that he has a chioce. In blueregal's case he has a choice, and the cost of the Win-7 upgrade would be less expensive than a new laptop. 



I do have a choice for the new Vista Laptop I bought and it might be cheaper to install 7 on it, but I am just upset enough about Microsoft pulling the plug on the cheap Windows 7 upgrade between when I bought the PC and the next day when they withdrew the offer that I would like to put that particular unit on the Skeet machine and yell "PULL!"... but, of course, that only really benefits them in that I would have to purchase yet another PC to takes its place. 

I am only considering purchasing another Laptop PC because I think I want a faster PC with a much larger harddrive, which was the reason for the Vista Laptop purchase... BUT, I don't want to do the physical upgrade to that machine if I can't get the upgrade cheaper than the full price being asked now. I'd rather buy a PC with it pre-installed and go from there than to do the act of upgrading. Silly of me, maybe, but it is just how the emotions are working "today".


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry C.T., I should have been more specific regarding which computer I was referring to. I can full well understand the displeasure with Microsoft, seems they can't avoid making decisons which result in shooting themselves in the foot.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If they'd let me hold the gun, it wouldn't be the foot that gets shot!


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 26 Oct 2009 12:58 PM 
John

In Semper Vaporo's case I don't see that he has a chioce. In blueregal's case he has a choice, and the cost of the Win-7 upgrade would be less expensive than a new laptop. 


Naw i'm going to just live with it, maybe try to get another newer one than my older Gateway that has fsster speed and bigger screen this 13.3 inch screen is making me go BLIND!! Hah lol or at least a bigger monitor. Regal


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 26 Oct 2009 03:51 PM 
I do have a choice for the new Vista Laptop I bought and it might be cheaper to install 7 on it, but I am just upset enough about Microsoft pulling the plug on the cheap Windows 7 upgrade between when I bought the PC and the next day when they withdrew the offer 

I thought it was the computer manufacturers that controlled that option, so far I have gone to HP, Acer and Dells sites and gotten new Win 7 CDs from them all. that is, they haven't gotten here yet, but...


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Just when I figured I would not have to deal with Windows 7 my wife decided that she needed a laptop (HP was on sale for $300 at Walmart) and naturally it has Windows 7 Home Premium. 

The first thing I did was to run all the Microsoft updates and then I installed ieSpell. Next I was going to install Spybot but noticed they did not mention Windows 7 compatibility so I passed on it for now. Next I downloaded AdAware but did not install it planning to wait until I verified it was OK with Win 7. 

While doing all the above I rebooted several times with no problem. The next day I could not get past the password and had to restore the computer reloading everything from scratch except I did not put in a password and it seems to be working OK. 

My question is whether anyone is aware of any potential problem using Windows 7 with ieSpell, Spybot or AdAware or of any password login problems? 

Thanks, 

Jerry


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

I was looking at getting of the HP's from Wally World. Until I saw that it was a Celeron based machine. I don't trust the Celeron based machines. 
LAO


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

win 7 will have it's teething problems, but it's really just a dressed up Vista, with some performance improvements. 

All the major softwares will have to support win7 so if they don't now, they will soon. 

Biggest problem will be compatibility with older XP programs, the way it emulates XP is different now. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Ltotis on 08 Nov 2009 04:33 PM 
I was looking at getting of the HP's from Wally World. Until I saw that it was a Celeron based machine. I don't trust the Celeron based machines. 
LAO 


Hi Larry, 

I have a couple of older Toshiba laptops with Celeron processors and they have worked quite well for years. 

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 08 Nov 2009 04:35 PM 
Biggest problem will be compatibility with older XP programs, the way it emulates XP is different now. 
Regards, Greg 


That leads to my main concern which is whether Win 7 will have any compatibility issues with running Office 2003 Professional Edition. 

Is anyone using Office 2003 with Win 7? 

Thanks, 

Jerry


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## sheepdog (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm with Dwight. I'm gonna wait. My son really likes Windows 7 and say's I should upgrade from XP..... I'm gonna wait. 

Apple is really kicking MS arse with those new commercials. 

??? What happened to all my tools in this reply to topic mode??? 

Craig


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, 

Windows 7 has an automatic compatability mode that will run most older applications of course that is primarily for Microsoft apps. I have run several systems here at work with Windows 7 Release Canidate and installed a vast array of applications both old and new including office 03 and 07 and found that they almost all ran without problems. The only real issues I ran into were with in house built applications.... 

As for waiting for SP1 and not going with ver 1.0.... Well I hate to even go there since even microsoft is saying that in reality Windows 7 IS Vista service pack 3. Yes they renamed it and rebuilt it significantly but on the whole it is still Vista with new brains....  

Flawless functionality and compatibilty with legacy apps and drivers.....


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

At the end of the day.... It's still Windows. 

Get a Mac 

- gws


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By sbaxters4 on 09 Nov 2009 07:12 AM 
Jerry, 
Windows 7 has an automatic compatibility mode that will run most older applications of course that is primarily for Microsoft apps. 


Hi Scott, 

I had been aware of the compatibility mode with previous versions and it is good to hear that it is now automatic. 

Most of my software is now old but serves all my needs just fine so compatibility with programs I learned back before I retired is more important than anything new that would require additional training - especially since I no longer have access to corporate training and support or the huge manuals that used to come with software. 

Apparently ieSpell has a few incompatibilities in that it seems to act somewhat differently under Win 7 but I expect the next upgrade will fix that. 

Thanks, 

Jerry


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## gtrainman (Jan 5, 2008)

I upgraded from Vista 64 bit to 7 - 64 bit professional.(lots of glitches in vista 64 bit on my new desk top) 
I have not had a glitch yet with 7 with the exception of (I have to wait for new wireless printer drivers from HP). 
Long story short, I like 7 pro so much over Vista 64, I went out and bought 7 premium for my notebook and loaded 64bit. 
It is what Vista should have been in the first place in my opinion.


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm using XP Mode in Windows 7 with no problems. I can now run my old development system which will NOT run in Vista,


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

My Toshiba with XP was acting up so I took the plunge and bought a Macbook Pro (15" laptop). Yep, it cost more, but it was relatively easy to learn. My son was down for a 2 week visit and had chance to use the Mac. Loved it so much, he went back home and bought his own. A vey user friendly computer.


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

TechRepublic posted an interesting video today about Windows 7 XP Mode: 

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/itdojo/?p=1221&tag=nl.e101


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, seems a vast improvement over Vista in this case. 

Regards, Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I guy told me today that Windows 7 looks like a Mac operating system. Is that ture?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sheepdog on 09 Nov 2009 06:35 AM 
Apple is really kicking MS arse with those new commercials. 

Craig 


But the frequent crashing, unfriendly OS, compatability and update problemns they discuss in the commercials are all WORSE on Apples than PCs, or at least the Apples I have been around. Afterall, KFC has good commercials too, but Mrs. Winners has better chicken? 

A friend just bought the $400 Walmart doorbuster HP and already is having hardware problems, I just had another two year old Compaq (Compaqs is made by HP now) fry (never again) so I bought a Toshiba. So now I have Windows 7. So far, so good, just gotta finish cleaning all the demo stuff off of it. 

What amazes me now is how cheap a decent laptop is, why upgrade when you can get a decent machine in the $4-700 range? But then, I remember what our Compaq 386 Deskpro cost in 1988...that still works! (ahem, what gives HP?)


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Nah 
I will agree that it appears to be heavily inspired by MAC and quite a few Linux distributions. And then you can argue if MAC was inspired by the Linux crowd or the other way around  
Whatever makes it better is a good thing in my book


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 04 Dec 2009 05:16 AM 
What amazes me now is how cheap a decent laptop is, why upgrade when you can get a decent machine in the $4-700 range? But then, I remember what our Compaq 386 Deskpro cost in 1988...that still works! (ahem, what gives HP?) 



I am writing this on a $300 Walmart special (HP). I don't particularly like HP and I have had very good luck with a couple of Toshiba Satellites I bought years ago but for $300 including Windows 7 this was too good to pass up. So far so good. 

Then again my first real computer back in 1984 was an IBM XT (4.77 MHz) which cost me (with a CGA monitor) over $5,000 and that was at corporate cost. Additionally dBase, Word Perfect and Lotus 1-2-3 ran it up over another $1,000 and it was normal to replace a 20 meg hard drive once a year at $500 each. A replacement IBM P70 motherboard was $2,500. 

A $300 laptop is certainly not cheap but relatively speaking it is a throw away. 

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Those of you with HP laptop (or otherwise) PCs (or might be considering getting one) may want to visit this website: 

HPLies.com 

Me thinks that consumers are beginning to gather in the town square with pitchforks and torches. 

BTW: I had an HP laptop for many years and it worked fine for that whole time. I only replaced it when the hardware world had made it obsolete. I now have a new HP Laptop that is running some video surveilance software 24/7 and, so far (3 months), has had no problems (other than the surveilance software and the camera being flakey!).


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 04 Dec 2009 02:19 PM 

Then again my first real computer back in 1984 was an IBM XT (4.77 MHz) which cost me (with a CGA monitor) over $5,000 and that was at corporate cost. Additionally dBase, Word Perfect and Lotus 1-2-3 ran it up over another $1,000 and it was normal to replace a 20 meg hard drive once a year at $500 each. A replacement IBM P70 motherboard was $2,500. 

Jerry 


The Compaq with a stack of manuals a foot tall was $3Kish back then...with nothing on it. 

Come to think of it, it does have a REALLY early generation of Sim City on it.....may be time to fire it up again?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

When I started working on computers for ADAC Labratories Hard Drvies were big as wahsing machines. Ram was a 2 ft x 3 ft triple layered board. Flope disks were really floppy. Now I get a Gateway Laptop that I bought for 300 bucks. It is not a bad litttle laptop and will be better once I get rid of Vista.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I am still bugging dad to ditch his colletion of punch cards and large (12") tapes. 

Ah, the sounds of a nine pin tracktor feed printer......


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

How many of us started off with a Commodore 64? 

I still remember getting it home, turning it on and watching that stupid blinking period and wondering "what the heck am I supposed to do now?" 

I soon realized I needed to "upgrade" to a cassette drive. 

How many of us now have family who, whenever their computers hiccup, expect us to make their problems go away without any idea of how much work it can be for us? 

Even more than batteries, "I hate computers!" 

Anyone remember the story/urban legend from years ago about a Word Perfect Customer Service Rep telling a customer (in the dark with a power failure complaining about her Word Perfect not working) to put the computer back in the box and return it to the store for a refund? 

The customer asked "is it THAT bad?" 

To which the Word Perfect rep supposedly said "No, you are just too stupid to own a computer!" 

Jerry


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

The wife has a Computer Science degree from Eastern Arizona College. I tell her I married her so I'd have her to fix my computer when I broke it. As it turned out, she typically didn't want anything to do with my computer after spending 8 -10 hours at work on computers. Since then, I've become pretty good at fixing it myself. It's amazing how adaptive a hammer mechanic can fix even computers. 

Randy


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By gtrainman on 09 Nov 2009 02:22 PM 
I upgraded from Vista 64 bit to 7 - 64 bit professional.(lots of glitches in vista 64 bit on my new desk top) 
I have not had a glitch yet with 7 with the exception of (I have to wait for new wireless printer drivers from HP). 
Long story short, I like 7 pro so much over Vista 64, I went out and bought 7 premium for my notebook and loaded 64bit. 
It is what Vista should have been in the first place in my opinion. 

Have heard this from several people, I was supposed to get the FREE upgrade from Sony, but alas they say after months of wrangling with them that NO I don't get it, now I have two pieces of Sony equipment use that term loosely that even 8 of they're techs could not fix and no help on problems with other piece of (junk loosely referred to as "crap") I thought the windows 7 would help fix the problems but now I have to buy it to get it I guess even though I bought this new and registered it in July of this year they say my model doesn't qualify!! And now I have a camcorder with the tape stuck in it won't eject the tape, and 1 month out of warranty only used camcorder 10 minutes of the 90day rest was streaming video throught it. I'm not very happy with Sonyvab--ch! excuse my French, but I'm about ready to evil-bay it all!! Regal


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 07 Dec 2009 12:00 PM 
How many of us started off with a Commodore 64?Mine, VIC-20, then TI99/4A, and then my first PDA, still have it too.


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 07 Dec 2009 12:00 PM 
How many of us started off with a Commodore 64? 
I still remember getting it home, turning it on and watching that stupid blinking period and wondering "what the heck am I supposed to do now?" 
I soon realized I needed to "upgrade" to a cassette drive. 
How many of us now have family who, whenever their computers hiccup, expect us to make their problems go away without any idea of how much work it can be for us? 
Even more than batteries, "I hate computers!" 
Anyone remember the story/urban legend from years ago about a Word Perfect Customer Service Rep telling a customer (in the dark with a power failure complaining about her Word Perfect not working) to put the computer back in the box and return it to the store for a refund? 
The customer asked "is it THAT bad?" 
To which the Word Perfect rep supposedly said "No, you are just too stupid to own a computer!" 
Jerry 


I started of with a used CBM 64, I got it cheap for what was back then about 500$ came with a tape drive though  
And I can relate to the "family in dispair" thingy... father in law is worst  

I seem to recall the answer was "Afraid so mam, you are just to stupid to own a computer"


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

My first computer was in 1979, a PDP-11/23 with a 10 MB hard disk. 

It had a romping stomping 60 kB of RAM which actually seemed like plenty for the time. The OS was either RT-11, a stripped down Unix or the UCSD P-system, whichever I felt like running at the time.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

George
 
I can relate to that, the control processor that was on the OCR/CS machine I worked on was DEC PDP11/23 with a RL-01 removable hard disk, then there was the 48-micro-processors running in parallel, and one Z-80 in each of the respective modules. Lots of fun!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I am not a HP fan by any means (I try to avoid buying HP based on past experiences but I am still a sucker for a super cheap price). 

Having said that when we got this new HP laptop from Walmart for $300 I immediately had a problem with getting the password to work. I phoned HP tech support and not surprisingly found myself talking to a fellow in India. The problem was not a particularly complex one but I was surprised when the fellow stayed with me while we worked the problem out. Eventually there were several phone calls during which while waiting for the PC to boot, reboot, boot again and again and again I spent well over an hour chatting with the guy. We discussed his job (rides a TRAIN to the city where HP provides a taxi to get him to work where he works 9 (or 12 - I forget which) hours a day - SEVEN DAYS A WEEK. We also talked about his family and how far a US dollar would go in India (he tried hard to convince me to vacation there and seemed unable to comprehend that I could not afford such a trip). 

On the one hand I felt sorry for him having to put in so many hours but on the other hand an almost son-in-law worked for Microsoft until he was dumped and his job was moved to India. 

No matter how little a computer cost to make in China or how cheap tech support is out of India I still do not understand why it would not have been more profitable for HP to have prevented my problem rather than to have spent hours working out a password problem with a brand new computer. 

Jerry 



Posted By Semper Vaporo on 04 Dec 2009 03:15 PM 
Those of you with HP laptop (or otherwise) PCs (or might be considering getting one) may want to visit this website: 
HPLies.com 
Me thinks that consumers are beginning to gather in the town square with pitchforks and torches. 
BTW: I had an HP laptop for many years and it worked fine for that whole time. I only replaced it when the hardware world had made it obsolete. I now have a new HP Laptop that is running some video surveilance software 24/7 and, so far (3 months), has had no problems (other than the surveilance software and the camera being flakey!).


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Still running W2K on this machine, XP on 2 others and Vista on the wife's Toshiba laptop. The laptop is the one that's most likely to get the BFH treatment.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I recently upgraded to W7 Ultimate and it works just fine. I didn't lose any of my favorites , emails, addresses or anything. Installed it over Vista Ultimate in little over an hour. To me it seems like it's faster esp. when loading this site. 

My PC is custom built by Rayman4449 with AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core Processor w/2 one terabyte hard drives & LG Blu-Ray HD DVD player/burner that is rock steady.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm using my "Pixie," an HP Mini 311-1037NR. It's enough computer to lay out pc boards and run compilers, in fact, it's pretty fast. The "Dell Disk Destroyer" at work now sleeps with the fishes and they got me an HP with some non Intel processor that runs circles around the disk destroyer. In the 3 1/2 years I used it, the destroyer went through 5 hard drives, though the last one doesn't seem to have been its fault. Beware those 500 - 1000 GB Seagate drives. I like this Windows 7 and have it on both these new computers. Never used Vista. 

My first computer was a Z80 with 64KB ram and, 1 1200KB floppy drive. Eventually I added a second drive. Ran CP/M on it. It amazed anybody who saw it for speed and power.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Up Date 

I was going to get windows 7 for my laptop. In the mean time my desk top computer took a dump. I went looking at Fry's Electonics for a new Desk Top. I was looking stricly at price. I came to this one for 500 bucks. It is a Gateway. I said is this just a monitor or is there a tower. It is all in the Monitor. HD Mother Board Ram CD burner everything. The monitor is a little thicker than normal. Comes with a Wireless Keyboard and mouse. They both suck big time. I got a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse. It has windows 7 and I am pleased. Comes with a Web cam and all the software. I can now join the guys on "FRIDAY NIGHT LIVE


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## sheepdog (Jan 2, 2008)

1978 NCR 7200, dual cassette drives, 64K RAM, Z8 processor, MS Basic from some small outfit in Phoenix. I worked for NCR. One cassette drive would have the software program, the other drive would have your work. I interfaced one with each of our Automatic Insertion Machines. Buddy would hand off a cassette from Design Automation (circuit board design) and utilizing my MS Basic program, our machines would assemble the boards. CAD/CAM years before they came up with the term. 

Craig


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 23 Jan 2010 10:54 PM 
Up Date 
I was going to get windows 7 for my laptop. In the mean time my desk top computer took a dump. I went looking at Fry's Electonics for a new Desk Top. I was looking stricly at price. I came to this one for 500 bucks. It is a Gateway. I said is this just a monitor or is there a tower. It is all in the Monitor. HD Mother Board Ram CD burner everything. The monitor is a little thicker than normal. Comes with a Wireless Keyboard and mouse. They both suck big time. I got a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse. It has windows 7 and I am pleased. Comes with a Web cam and all the software. I can now join the guys on "FRIDAY NIGHT LIVE 

Thats Great J.J. 
Will be glad to have you on with us... Now you got more power than we have to run on our shows..hahhaha 

I'm using two puters to run my broadcast on the network. ( one is pem 4 Hp and Pem 3 Gateway.) But they work for our shows. But slow as Greg & Jerry H.will tell ya. Guess we old guys are hard to change being we also started out with a comador 64 and upgraded to a ext.tape dr. to make three color baloons go across the screen in 5 min. Then hit the wrong button afer working on it for 45 min. and lost the program..laf. 
See Ya on Fri. Night Show. Noel


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

My wife and I finally put Vis7a on on her Toshiba laptop. My impression of it is that it sux slightly less than Vista. 

If I want to do anything real, I'll use a Mac.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By George Schreyer on 24 Jan 2010 06:42 PM 
My wife and I finally put Vis7a on on her Toshiba laptop. My impression of it is that it sux slightly less than Vista. 
If I want to do anything real, I'll use a Mac. 



Less Sucking can be good


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Is anyone having problems connecting to WiFi with Windows 7? 

My wife's new HP laptop with Win 7 and it is driving me nuts. It now has Norton 360 on it but the wireless problems predated that installation. 

It works with our router in both wired and wireless and with some hotel wireless systems but I have been totally unable to make it work with some WiFi systems and it seems quite different to set up from XP that I am used to. Some hotel systems work while others do not. 

My wife was going to take it with her to England but when we could not get it to work with the Little Rock Airport's WiFi (even the Airport techs could not get it to work) we gave up and she left it here. The airport system is not even password protected - it just brings up a screen that requires approval of their terms of use. The laptop seemed to connect and then to immediately disconnect. 

Any ideas? 

Thanks, 

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am not having trouble with WiFi. My CD drive is toast ...When I loaded windows 7 as a upgrade over Vista 
( which too almost 3 hours) I lost my CD drive. I try to load programs and it chugs along for about 20 minutes then comes up with files missing.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

J.J. yer just not "sweet talkin" to it try a little tenderness then run over it with one of yer trains if it doesn't respond to you!! LOL Thats why they are called "pukers" Regal


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

JJ, I've asked several times on several threads... what is the CPU on your laptop (type and speed) and how much ram? 

You probably should have stayed with XP. (judging from the upgrade time) 

Also, sounds like your laptop was in sad shape before the upgrade.... so you just may have multiplied your problems. Advice: next time ask your buddies on this forum BEFORE trying it... there's lots of top people here that know this stuff, like Steve and Dwight. 

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The laptop had VISTA ON IT. I loaded WINDOWS 7 as a up grade. No XP involved There was no 2.10 gihz for processor 3 gig ram. 64 bit operating system


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

ram ok, if that is a single core 2 GHz processor, then it's too slow, if it is a dual core, then it's ok. 

Maybe your disk is highly fragmented... that would explain it being very slow... is your disk almost full? 

You can use the windows defragmenter, or download ultradefrag version 4.4.0, just updated for 64bit.... http://sourceforge.net/projects/ultradefrag/files/ be SURE to select the 64 bit version and for the right processor, AMD or Intel... 

the 9th one down is intel (ia64) and the 11th one is amd (amd64).... 

ultradefrag will do a much better version than the junk defragger you get from windoze, and it will defrag the boot files, which windows will not... your computer will boot faster and run faster.. 

This is my best guess of what is wrong... (based on the fact you are not COMPLETELY out of disk space) 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Uh Oh, I think J.J. is now fragmenting himself!! Or bursting into several teeny tiny fragments! Hah LOL aren't "pukers" fun???? soooooooooooooooooo Greg between me and J.J. which one of us makes you go balder??????????? hee hee


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

As I've said before, they'll have to pry XP Pro from my cold dead fingers. I can understand updating the OS to support 64bit, etc. What I DON'T understand is why they have to change everything around in the process. I also don't understand the lack of backward compatibility in Vista. 

My first PC was a 1980 Radio Shack TRS-80 - single cassette, 32kb RAM (16 of which was the OS) and a 1.2 MHz Z80 (if memory serves). I later upgraded with the Expansion Interface, 32kb more of RAM, and dual floppy drives. Taught myself Basic and Z80 assembly language on that machine, so I still have a warm place in my heart for it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, had a few of them... did you ever have a Sinclair?, I think Timex sold them... 

My first "Real" personal computer was a Hewlett Packard 9825, expensive desktop computer, proprietary os, but I worked at HP, so got a deal... then to a 9836 running the "P system" pascal... 

Got a PC in '75 or so when they came out... had a DEC LSI-11, Commodore, and a few others. 

Regards, Greg


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## audi84 (Jan 13, 2008)

Greg 

I picked up on your suggestion to use "Sourceforge" and it was like going from a VW Bug to Porche 
Thanks loads, will continue to use when the need arises! 


Noel audi84


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yep, I have been using that freeware defragger for some time... works great, and very few ones that exist in the world will defrag the boot files. 

Regards, Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I "REGULARLY" run either the Windows defrag program and a 3rd party free one named "Defragler". IE is set to delete all temp files when the program terminates. I also daily delete all the temp files using "CCleaner" and "ParetoLogic Privacy Controls", so my disks are as clean as I can get them. "Defragler" is supposed to defragment the free space, but does a very poor job of that, often leaving big gaps, per its own display of usage. It also won't move some files, which I assume are in the software repair partition, but are scattered all over the disk. 

I have one video file that no amount of moving it will ever get completely defragmented. I have moved it to another disk and then defragmented the free space on the drive it was on, then moved it back and it is still reported as being fragmented. 

I had not heard of "ultradefrag" so I downloaded it and ran it. First I clicked on "Defragment" and it took about an hour to do 451 fragmented files (after a day spent surfing the web that is about normal on a disk that is "kept clean" like I do... at least given what Defragler lists when I use it). Ultradefrag didn't seem to be any faster than the other methods. 

I then clicked on "Optimize"... it is still running a cycle of: An "Analyze" (I assume that is what the "A" means next to the progress bar, which is always at 100% when the "A" is present). Then it changes the displayed number of fragmented files and the "A" changes to a "C" and the percent number drops to 0 and it and the progress bar slowly progresses up to 100. Then it does it all again. It has been doing this since about 2:30 at this time... that is 4.5 hours... and no indication when it might be done. 

I can understand what it is doing... moving files around to make space in certain areas for files that are used more often than others... and that creates more fragmented files that it then has to defragment. The number of fragmented files jumps from 451 to 329 to 51 to 168 to 82 to 50 to 64 - so far (but I might have missed a some when out of the room). 

If it ever indicates that it is done, I'll report back if it seems to have done any good at "Optimizing". I'll go looking at that video to see if got defragmented finally.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, it defragments the files first and then compacts free space second. 

All of the numbers that these defragmenters have a certain amount of BS in them... I used to play a game between Norton's defragmenter and Diskeepers. Defragment with one, and get it "perfect" then run the other one, which would point out some fragments... get it perfect, then back to the first one, guess: yep, no longer perfect.... 

But you are missing the biggest unique feature: defragmentation of the boot files, the system files that cannot be defragged when the system is running the os, i.e. the pagefile, hibernation file, ntloader, MFT table, etc. 

That is the killer part of this product, no other freebie has it that I know of (that works)... I use Perfect Disk myself, great, but I recommend as many free programs to my friends and clients. 

(yep clients, after our discussion about "what me worry" on virus protection, I decided to announce that I work on computers in my spare time, I have more work than I can handle) 

Regards, Greg


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Lots of nice stuff at sourceforge. 
I have began using Partedmagic a lot, basicly the Linux program "Parted" in a distribusion. 
Does a lot the windows software will not allow.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 05 Feb 2010 04:15 PM 
Is anyone having problems connecting to WiFi with Windows 7? 

My wife's new HP laptop with Win 7 and it is driving me nuts. It now has Norton 360 on it but the wireless problems predated that installation. 

It works with our router in both wired and wireless and with some hotel wireless systems but I have been totally unable to make it work with some WiFi systems and it seems quite different to set up from XP that I am used to. Some hotel systems work while others do not. 

My wife was going to take it with her to England but when we could not get it to work with the Little Rock Airport's WiFi (even the Airport techs could not get it to work) we gave up and she left it here. 

The airport system is not even password protected - it just brings up a screen that requires approval of their terms of use. The laptop seemed to connect and then to immediately disconnect. 

Any ideas? 

Thanks, 

Jerry 


The "World of WiFi" seems to be a total disaster. I just got home from a CFI Clinic where fewer than one out of ten computers could access the Internet. Everyone could locate the network but then could not log into it. 

Somehow this seems to be a relatively new problem as I never had much difficulty logging onto the Internet from a variety of hotels in different states. 

I don't know what is different now since these problems are with logging into unsecured networks. 

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 06 Feb 2010 06:27 PM 
I "REGULARLY" run either the Windows defrag program and a 3rd party free one named "Defragler". IE is set to delete all temp files when the program terminates. I also daily delete all the temp files using "CCleaner" and "ParetoLogic Privacy Controls", so my disks are as clean as I can get them. "Defragler" is supposed to defragment the free space, but does a very poor job of that, often leaving big gaps, per its own display of usage. It also won't move some files, which I assume are in the software repair partition, but are scattered all over the disk. 
I have one video file that no amount of moving it will ever get completely defragmented. I have moved it to another disk and then defragmented the free space on the drive it was on, then moved it back and it is still reported as being fragmented. 
I had not heard of "ultradefrag" so I downloaded it and ran it. First I clicked on "Defragment" and it took about an hour to do 451 fragmented files (after a day spent surfing the web that is about normal on a disk that is "kept clean" like I do... at least given what Defragler lists when I use it). Ultradefrag didn't seem to be any faster than the other methods. 
I then clicked on "Optimize"... it is still running a cycle of: An "Analyze" (I assume that is what the "A" means next to the progress bar, which is always at 100% when the "A" is present). Then it changes the displayed number of fragmented files and the "A" changes to a "C" and the percent number drops to 0 and it and the progress bar slowly progresses up to 100. Then it does it all again. It has been doing this since about 2:30 at this time... that is 4.5 hours... and no indication when it might be done. 
I can understand what it is doing... moving files around to make space in certain areas for files that are used more often than others... and that creates more fragmented files that it then has to defragment. The number of fragmented files jumps from 451 to 329 to 51 to 168 to 82 to 50 to 64 - so far (but I might have missed a some when out of the room). 
If it ever indicates that it is done, I'll report back if it seems to have done any good at "Optimizing". I'll go looking at that video to see if got defragmented finally. 


Just for giggles I will report what happened last night. 

About 11:30, (9 hours after starting the "Optimize") my PC spontaneously shut down. I lost a posting I was making in IE and a file I was editing in Notepad as neither IE-8 nor Notepad were given a chance to abort the shutdown. Not a big deal as what I was posting and editing were of little consequence and easily recovered later. 

The PC did not automatically restart. I had to power it up again. It did not defrag any files during the boot up. 

I then ran Defragler and noted that it showed only the Master File Table (MFT) and Swap (pagefil.sys) files were fragmented. NOTE: the Hibernation (Hiberfil.sys) was NOT fragmented... I had worked hard to get it created in a clean space so that it had no fragments! 

I ran UltraDefrag again and enabled the "Windows Boot Time Scan" (in "Settings"). (I then had to have Spybot Search & Destroy to allow UltraDefrag to write the change to the startup sequence.) 

I then rebooted. During the reboot it indicated it was running a preboot program that was defragmenting files. 

After the reboot, I checked the files that were fragmented and the only change is that now the Hibernation files has 2 fragments! The other two are still fragmented. 

Great googley-moogley! Score: Minus 1. 

I reset the Boot Time Scan and did a couple more reboots and I see no improvements in boot speed. 

Still, all-in-all, I think that UltraDefrag is marginally better than Defragler in some respects (number of files it reports that are actually fragmented that Defragler does not show at all), but I like Defragler a bit better in its display (more "resolution" of disc space allocation). 

EITHER program is much better than what comes with Winders. I probably didn't see much improvement in boot time because having run Defragler so often my disc is already pretty much optimized.


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

If you can figure out how to install Windows XP/Vista/7 whatever, then you can figure out how to install Linux. No defragging, no BSOD, rarely if ever a virus, no registry cleaners and all that other aggravation. Most software including OS is free. You actually have choices in software. 

But then, there may be people who cling to one manufacturer. If they chose Aristo, that's all they would ever use. There might be other makers of controllers, rolling stock, sound, switches or whatever, it's only Aristo for them come **** or high water. Doesn't matter how many motors burn up or various issues. 

DISCLAIMER: I have nothing against Aristo. They have fine products. I just used the name as a hypothetical example. My apologies if any one feels offended by the use of their name. No offense intended. 

Since Linux is free, you have nothing to lose by trying it. BTW, you can install it after you install Windows. Then your computer can dual boot and you can choose Windows or Linux when you start up. 

Maybe we should have computer clinics at train shows?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

jeeze


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

If I could install Linux and have it work seamless in my environment I would. 
I did use an Ubuntu install at work for about six months before switching to Windows 7, and we did evaluate Linux for the business after Vista reared it's ugly head. 
But... even though Linux in many ways is ready for prime time there are still issues with implementation that could not be overcome in our organization. 

We do have a few Linux servers, file servers that work seamlessly in an Active Directory environment and also some web servers. But for the desktop it's Windows all the way. 
My home server is Server2008R2 because I could not get Ubuntu or Fedora server to do what I wanted, 2008R2 still does not do all I want, but it has more of the features I require


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The whole thread is about Windows, and for sure, someone has to come in and say use Linux. Just like a track power thread and someone has to come in and talk battery 

Yep, if all you do is surf the net, Linux is fine, but, for example, in this hobby, Are the following available on Linux? 
Track planning software (several to choose from?) 
Phoenix programmer 
QSI programmer 
ESU programmer 
Lenz programmer 

In fact, ANY programmer for ANY sound system or decoder? 

How about MTH software running in Linux? 

And if your comeback is dualboot, why bother? Stay in windows... 

I manager 7 Linux servers for our business, Linux has it's place, but there is nowhere near the wealth of applications, and ESPECIALLY in model train software. 

So, why play the "Spoiler"? Just like Macs, where many users have to run a Windows emulator. 

Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg, I have a laptop with windows on it and it is run off of battery power, does that count?????? Hah LOL Regal


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Basicly what I said  
You could possibly make a lot of the stuff Greg listed work on Linux, but it's so much hassle to make Linux work like windows that it's simply easier to stick with the "real thing" (or was that Coke?)


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeeze. I think Greg may have said this above. Dito Later RJD


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By Hagen on 08 Feb 2010 09:32 AM 
Basicly what I said  
You could possibly make a lot of the stuff Greg listed work on Linux, but it's so much hassle to make Linux work like windows that it's simply easier to stick with the "real thing" (or was that Coke?) 

Rune, Essentially you are correct. Why would anyone want to make Linux work like Windows??? Linux and Unix in general is meant for serious work, not play. Of course you can do work using Windows, and you can try to play using Linux, but it is much easier the other way around. And if you want something well in between, you might just as well use OS X which is Unix with full play potential. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, YOU could not make the programs I listed work on Linux. 

The owners/authors of the software would need to make it work, recompile the source, create new drivers, etc. 

That's not realistic at all for the small market we have. There would be Mac software first. 

That's the real point. 

Sure there are word processors on Linux, and basic tools, and an OK windowed environment, but Linux is not fully featured enough to have all support for all the programmers making software for the "masses"... Just having Java, Javascript, Flash, Shockwave, Ajax, etc... is tough. 

Believe me, if it was just a matter of choice, I would dump Windows in a heartbeat. It's bloated, full of security holes, slow, unreliable, and unnecessarily complicated. 

(I use it, I'm not in love with it) 

Regards, Greg 




Posted By Hagen on 08 Feb 2010 09:32 AM 
Basicly what I said  
You could possibly make a lot of the stuff Greg listed work on Linux, but it's so much hassle to make Linux work like windows that it's simply easier to stick with the "real thing" (or was that Coke?)


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Its interesting what people are saying about HP.. 
(im going to go back and read a few of the anti-HP links provided above) 

I guess if you have one bad experience, you write off the whole brand.. 
this is normal "human nature"..I have done it myself! 
everyone has.. 
I will never buy a GM or a Chrysler car, because in my experience they are absolute junk.. 
Ford however is great! 
I strongly hold those opinions, and probably will for the rest of my life, 
based only on ownership of 4 specific vehicles..One Chevy, One Dodge, and two Fords.. 

I consider HP pretty much the top brand for a desktop PC.. 
I am writing this from my 7 year old HP desktop, which has been used by me and my wife, 
every day for the last 7 years, without one lick of trouble ever.. 
we are only considering replacing it because its really slowing down..only 512K memory..only upgradable to 1gig tops.. 
my computer is becoming obsolete and no longer working so well..but thats not the computers fault. 
but we are in no hurry, its still plugging along fine.. 

So when the time comes to look for a new desktop, I will probably look at nothing but new HP machines.. 

interesting.. 

Scot


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Knock on wood, but my HP laptop has been very Mac-like in reliability. (Sorry, PC folks, couldn't resist.  ) It's not my everyday machine, but since it's wireless, it's my "watch the kids and get work done" computer. My only gripe with it is in networking it. I'm using Airport Extreme, and I can log onto either of my two Macs from the HP, but I can't log onto the HP from either of my two Macs. Weird, but not a big deal since I host all my files on the Macs anyway. It's running XP, and I have absolutely no desire to upgrade it. (It works, don't fix it.) Probably if I had to replace it, I'd get a MacBook and install Windows 7 (or whatever the current version would be) as a dual boot to run windows software, but for now, I've been quite happy with the HP-XP combination. 

Later, 

K


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 08 Feb 2010 07:48 PM 
I will never buy a GM or a Chrysler car, because in my experience they are absolute junk.. 
Ford however is great! 

Hi Scot, 

Apparently your Fords did not include a Contour. I've always preferred Fords and bought more of them than any other brand until the wiring harness of a Contour fell apart (insulation fell off) resulting in total disabling of the car. Up to 100k Ford replaced the harness (no recall) but after 100k Ford did nothing. A new harness would have cost $3,500 plus $3,500 installation. Since then we found out that just about all Contours had this problem (disintegrating wire insulation). We stopped buying Fords but then I've bought used Expeditions because of the price and comfort. 

Perhaps the problem is less to do with the brand than it is the complexity of everything since everything now is so dependent on electronics. 

I am not fond of HP (other than for printers) based on past experiences with them but we still bought a HP laptop for my wife. I cannot say that I have ever owned a trouble free computer or car. The repairs have just become more complicated and finding someone qualified to fix them more difficult. 

In my opinion nothing is built to last anymore and brand names have lost their attraction because everything is now price driven. Competitive prices and customer service are seldom found together. 

WalMart has redefined the world of what we expect and what we are willing to settle for. 

Regards, 

Jerry


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I do not own an HP, but when searching for a computer, was told they were #1 in the industry, don't know if that was by consumer sales or reliability!! I do have an HP printer which has a mind of it's own at times, but it is still working after about 6+yrs, I have a Gateway, a Sonyvabeech, and a Dell, I also have a Sonyvabeech camcorder, both have problems, and Sonyvabeech has just left me out in the cold to fend for myself on both! Will probably never buy anything else from them!! The gateway has issues, but still working, and the Dell I have NO problems with yet, so far, keeping my fingers and toes crossed! Until I read this post was thinking of window7, but I think i'm waiting on that one, and besides which one would I put it in??? hah LOL If i had my druthers, probably the Dell! I think they are overpriced (got a great deal on this one) but its working so far! Fix Or Repair Daily??? I own one of dem too!! Since 2001 have had to put a battery in it and get the recall wiring for cruise control fixed, I have owned Cheby's, Ford's,Buicks,and even a Fiart! at one time or another. "sometimes ya just get's the luck of the draw" in anything ya buy's. Hee Hee Regal No replys from the Nicky peanut gallery "please" uninvited "Trolls" comments not welcome. Lets see how long it takes him to respond anyways! Hah Some people never take direction in der lives!!!


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 08 Feb 2010 07:44 PM 
No, YOU could not make the programs I listed work on Linux. 

You know, I should really try this now... 
Almost all windows software can be made to work reliably on linux, but it's a major hassle, and indeed not something for the average user (as implied earlier in this thread). 
And it's not a simple task implementing updates and what have you, so it's better to give it a miss. 

But if you truly believe that things still have to be custom written to run on Linux, then you haven't paid much attention to it over the last couple of years. 
What stopped it for us implementing it as desktops in the company was hassle, not that it couldn't be done. 
I could run it fine for me, but the support would brake my back in an instant. 

we did run Photoshop, Office (yes, both MS Office and open office) and everything else we needed on Linux when we evaluated it, but... it's a hassle to mantain. 
And Windows isn't expensive enough to warrant the use of man hours to make Linux work well.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You ran the windows version of MS office on Linux? 
BS... 
You ran a Windows emulator on Linux, and then the Windows program on it. 

There is an important difference. 

And if you think that the USB and other specialized drivers in the software I mentioned above will load on Linux, you really do not understand much more than the power switch on your computer. 

Read over what I said... it was very specific... These specialized programmers normally need specific and non-standard USB drivers, which will NOT run under Linux, and normally do not function on any emulators. 

I am reacting this way because your statements are misleading and also technically untrue. I'm not harmed by your inaccuracy, but others may walk away taking what you say literally. 


Greg


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Edit "Why bother" your mind is made up


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 08 Feb 2010 07:44 PM 
[...] Sure there are word processors on Linux [...] 

Greg, do not forget that MS Word was first written for Unix (Xenix). For professional results, people use TeX/LaTeX anyway. Best, Zubi


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys, this thread reminds me of the philosophers that constantly argued how many angels could dance on the head of a pin! Greg has sufficiently cautioned us that I, for one, would not attempt it!! Now, as to whether it can or it can't or whether this or that or blah blah blah.... if this is just an "I have to be right and get the last word!" well.....okay. I can't contribute anything constructive to this thread other than to observe that, as a computer neophite, ya'll are talk'n waaay above my head! I'm outa here...


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