# 3D Printing on plastic ??



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm am fascinated by the possibilities inherent in 3D printing - I may have to learn 3D drawing!

One question I haven't seen answered - can you 3D print on top of an existing piece of plastic? Would the new part stick to the old, or will it all slide off when you tip it up?

One place that would be useful is around a window, to make the frame. Or how about adding details on the front pilot beam? Or adding roof seams ?


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete - I have been using a 3D printer since early May and have never done what you describe or read of anyone doing so - the issue would be adhesion (as you suggest) and telling the software where the other item is and where it starts and stops. Not a trivial pursuit!

It might make more sense to digitally design the original object then (again digitally) add to it. I have been using Sketchup and have had a great deal of success with it. My latest project is to design and print sensor support units for my Trainelectronics.com Speedometer.

Here is a screen capture of the design










and the finished print - note that this sensor unit is for "Z" scale rather than the LARGER G!










dave


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## DanteHicks79 (Jun 19, 2013)

You wouldn't want to 3D print directly onto the part you are adding to, in the event that the printer goofs up or something. 

It would probably be best to adhere it to the part, after it has been printed.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By DanteHicks79 on 07 Aug 2013 04:21 PM 
You wouldn't want to 3D print directly onto the part you are adding to, in the event that the printer goofs up or something. 

It would probably be best to adhere it to the part, after it has been printed. 
I agree, the printed part is typically ABS, so as long as you can find the right solvent, you should be able to bond it to the existing part.

You just need to be fairly precise in your measurements of the existing part, and design for that interface in your new "add-on" 3D model.

I'm really jealous of Dave's printer...!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Do you think it would be feasible to make a run of spaced rivets that are attached by their heads by a minimal amount of plastic (runner) to a sprue? (Terms borrowed from injection molding). 
Application of adhesive to the base of the rivets then glued in place. Once the glue is hard the sprue could be gently 'wiggled' or cut off and a little blocking down the tops of the rivets with fine sand paper to remove the sprue scar. This method would be quicker than positioning individual rivets and would keep them straight and spaced correctly, at least one would hope. 

Andrew


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

I have been utilizing 3D modeling for years using SOLIDWORKS software. And the printing SLA's, Made from laser etching layers of powder into a solid. Expensive but able to make parts with overhangs and undercuts.

Up until recently we outsourced most of our large parts. 
Last year we purchased our own 3D rapid prototype machine that utilizes the extruded linear build up method.
The most affordable 3D printing currently is PLA rather than ABS.
PLA offers a smaller tip extruder with tolerance close to .01. and a lower melting point. Good for small accurate parts.
ABS requires is a larger tip and a higher melt. Better for larger items but not for small.

Prices are coming down, but it is still easier said than done.
These affordable machines are rather crude and must be tended to. Once it starts you can not stop it and restart it. Unlike a DVD or videotape player.
So if the extruder cools and misses a spot, you have to cancel and start over. Not fun, if your part requires a build time over an hour and you discover the flaw after 45 minutes!

As for printing on plastic, you could provided, the surface you start with is flat. Remember this is like icing a cake. If you try to ice off the cake, the icing will just fall off.
So if you are trying to print a window frame over a clear piece of plastic, your build surface can not be any smaller than the perimeter of your frame or part. It actually has to be oversized so you can esentially hit your target.

The build plate on our printer is plastic, and the whole purpose is to get the first layer to 'stick'. It doesn't tip or slip off that easy. As a matter of fact it requires a good force to pry it off.
We actually print over masking tape and readjust the building plate after adhering the tape. And this is what you would have to do if you were to print on the plastic. Mount your plastic and readjust the building plate accommodating the thickness of your plastic.

Like someone said earlier, not a trivial pursuit.

This technology is rapidly advancing and you will soon be able to print and change colors.
But for now, the hobbyist will have limitations. Due to expense and cost.

Good Luck!

Martino


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Martino on 07 Aug 2013 10:12 PM 

Prices are coming down, but it is still easier said than done.
These affordable machines are rather crude and must be tended to. Once it starts you can not stop it and restart it. Unlike a DVD or videotape player.
So if the extruder cools and misses a spot, you have to cancel and start over. Not fun, if your part requires a build time over an hour and you discover the flaw after 45 minutes!

But for now, the hobbyist will have limitations. Due to expense and cost. 
Good Luck!

Martino



Martino - FYI, the printer I have does allow you to stop / swap colors / restart the printing without problems - in the sign shown below I printed the base in black then switched to yellow for the lettering and the border - it looks good and the contrast between the colors is excellent!

The printer is from Afinia..... nice unit. 

dave


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

As for printing on plastic, you could provided, the surface you start with is flat. 
We're getting to the essence of my question. 

Suppose you were making a plate girder bridge. The rivet plates (reinforcing plates under the rivets) could be 'printed' as a piece with the rivets and glued to the bridge girders? 

What about printing the rivets directly on a piece/strip of styrene that you then glue along the girder? Or is it preferable to print the whole strip with rivets on it? 
How long a strip can you print? 

How about the rivets around a tank or smokebox? You would want to print them on a thin plate of plastic which could then be wrapped around the curved base form. 

Then there is the rivets around the perimeter of a tender tank. Can I cut a piece of plastic (compatible with whatever the printer is using) the right size, and print the rivets directly on the tender side?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Seems that the advancement is getting to the point of viable production and fully functional:


http://autos.yahoo.com/news/guy-building-skyline-based-aston-martin-db4-replica-193043575.html


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 08 Aug 2013 12:49 PM 
Seems that the advancement is getting to the point of viable production and fully functional:


http://autos.yahoo.com/news/guy-building-skyline-based-aston-martin-db4-replica-193043575.html 


Wow. And all I want is a few rivets. . .


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 08 Aug 2013 02:16 PM 
Posted By Charles on 08 Aug 2013 12:49 PM 
Seems that the advancement is getting to the point of viable production and fully functional:


http://autos.yahoo.com/news/guy-building-skyline-based-aston-martin-db4-replica-193043575.html 


Wow. And all I want is a few rivets. . . 
And rivets you shall have, Pete - I fooled around a bit this afternoon and printed some samples. None are excellent but they show the potential. Details are on my web page at:

http://www.trainelectronics.com/3D_Printer/


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## DanteHicks79 (Jun 19, 2013)

Really amazing detail for how small they are. My hopes for future 3D projects are looking good!


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 08 Aug 2013 11:31 AM 
As for printing on plastic, you could provided, the surface you start with is flat. 
We're getting to the essence of my question. 

Suppose you were making a plate girder bridge. The rivet plates (reinforcing plates under the rivets) could be 'printed' as a piece with the rivets and glued to the bridge girders? 

What about printing the rivets directly on a piece/strip of styrene that you then glue along the girder? Or is it preferable to print the whole strip with rivets on it? 
How long a strip can you print? 

How about the rivets around a tank or smokebox? You would want to print them on a thin plate of plastic which could then be wrapped around the curved base form. 

Then there is the rivets around the perimeter of a tender tank. Can I cut a piece of plastic (compatible with whatever the printer is using) the right size, and print the rivets directly on the tender side? 
To my knowledge, you can't print ON a piece of plastic. The reinforcing plates on a plate bridge could be printed with the rivets on them...and glued to the bridge. The reinforcing plate could be flat plate or an L angle too with rivets...but you must print the whole thing...not just rivets. 

One thing to remember when doing 3D printing is that the part needs to be supported while printing. So, if your design is tall and thin, it will probably lean over and bend from it being warm plastic...and gravity. In 3D printing, that is solved by printing a dis-solvable support structure around the tall thin part you are making. The dis-solvable stuff is rinsed off after the part completes printing...and it's cold. But...it means you are printing a lot more material...and need a printer that will print two kinds of plastic at the same time. 

There are printers out there that can be loaded with 16 or more types of printing material...so don't only think about support plastics...also think about using colored plastics too. For example...a sign could have a frame one color, a background of one color, and letters in multiple colors....all printed at one time.


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Dave, 
I can not change colors on my machine. Mine is a MakerBot replicator2. 
But I am impressed by your photos. Today I also tried printing some rivets. But instead of printing them on a band. 
I just printed the rivets on one thin line .02 thick and high. The rivets themselves are .08 round and high. 

I don't know how to attach a photo. But I will try. 
If you know the size and spacing, I will try it again with the finest line I can draw. 

Martino


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Martino, if you hit the magnifyer at PhotoBucket then Right Click->Copy Image then Right Click->Paste here on Reply or Edit. Then your pictures will copy and insert. PhotoBucket and this editor do their best to keep things dysfunctional of what was designed to be simple.

Andrew


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Martino on 09 Aug 2013 06:06 PM 
Dave, 
I can not change colors on my machine. Mine is a MakerBot replicator2. 
But I am impressed by your photos. Today I also tried printing some rivets. But instead of printing them on a band. 
I just printed the rivets on one thin line .02 thick and high. The rivets themselves are .08 round and high. 

I don't know how to attach a photo. But I will try. 
If you know the size and spacing, I will try it again with the finest line I can draw. 

Martino 
 Martino - Here is a photo of the two color 3D Coffee Mine sign - it held up in the sun rather well this summer, too.

I put an STL file of the rivet strip on my web page - you can download it here if you want to give it a shot. I should think that your printer takes generic STL files.
dave

www.trainelectronics.com/3D_Printer...2thick.stl[/b]

PS - as usual the link shows and works in the editor but not once submitted.... and so it goes....


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I just purchased a MakerGear M2 Kit :-D

Its for train parts and quadcopter parts (and everything else I feel like printing or find on thingiverse.com)










MakerGear M2 Link


From all my research, I liked this one atm, has lots of OpenSource Support!
I am really excited about this!


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Thanks for this thread! I bought a Prinrbot Jr lkit ast spring. Got it mostly together but must make some adjustments to it before iI try anything fancy. I wish the guys to made it had tried to build one from their instructions, but I'm getting through it. Only problem now is a fan to cool the molding (can we call it that)? Seems to be an afterthought and the lack of instructions seems to onfirm that.


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## in2trains (Aug 15, 2013)

FYI - I signed up and will start a 10 week class on computer aided manufacturing including 3D printing at my local vocational school. Upon completion of the class, "graduates" are allowed to use the schools lab for their personal use! Equipment also includes laser cutters. I do not know as yet the software and manufacturer of the printer so I do not know tolerances, multi-color capabilities, etc.


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## in2trains (Aug 15, 2013)

Sorry, above is my first post to mylargescale.com. Forgot to sign. 

Bruce Bowie 
[email protected]


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=26...the-masses


looks promising!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

You guys want to see some real 3-D printing, how about an entire 1927 Miller race car in 40% scale?

Watch this:

http://bangshift.com/blog/watch-a-l...azing.html


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