# what turnout to buy?



## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

Need to buy turnouts for my modules. Need to be 332. Want Aristo heaveyweights to work flawlessly on. What to buy???


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You should specify what "curvature" or "diameter" you want to match. 

Aristo heavyweights won't do well on LGB or other "R1" equivalents. 

They will work fine on the Aristo WR turnouts (10' diameter) given you lubricate the trucks and axles and follow my tips. 

Any turnout that is over 10' diameter in 332 or #6 frog or "larger" will be fine. 

I think you need to tune up the cars, not blame the turnouts, unless you are trying R1 turnouts now (4' or smaller diameter). 

To make it really clear: I have a loop of track with 10' diameter curves, two Aristo WR turnouts and an "S" curve... I can run a 45 car freight perfectly, but my new, out of the box Aristo Heavyweights derailed all over the place on the same track. It was not the track's fault, nor the switches, it IS the cars themselves. You do not need to go to the "crutch" of removing the middle axles or blind wheels. 


Regards, Greg


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg 
These are for the clubs module layout. I just got the 4 straights benchwork done.(still working on curve) I haven't bought turnouts in a while or track for that matter. On my garden layout in the beginning I used r1's. Not knowing much then. Changed them to Aristos Wide radius as I got bigger equipment. I have already started with your suggestions with my 3 axle heavyweights. Want to get a feel for what others are using, as I don't know much about some of the new 332 offerings such as Train-Li or piko. Again thanks your site has been very helpful with my Heavyweight issues...


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

On my layout I have four switches on my mainline. There are 2 passing sidings and a through line. Many times the sidings become the though line. All of my curves are 10' diameter (Aristo wide radius). I started out with 4 Aristo wide radius switches (10' diameter turnout). I had more trouble on the curves than on switches with my heavyweights. I removed the center axle on all my three axle heavyweight trucks. No problems since the surgery. I never had any problems with the USAt streamliners. I have since replaced all the Aristo switches with LGB 18000 series switches. The curvature for these switches is about 16' diameter. I did this because I had problems with some larger 1:20.3 engines not liking the 10' diameter switches. I'm very happy with the LGB 18000 switches.

I have heard good things about the switches offered by Axel Tillmann at Train-Li (he sponsors one of the forums here on MLS). I don't have any of his switches, so I can't comment from personal experience. 


My recommendation is that you go with the largest switch that will fit in the space you have. You will never regret going with larger curves and switches.


Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

LGB 18000 are LGB "R5", and 15.22' in equivalent diameter. 

The Train-Li stuff is well made also, but please note that the turnout sold as "R7" is not more "gradual" than a #6 switch, nor was there ever a "R7" track radius. 

The R7 turnout frog is about a 5.25 to 5.5, the LGB 18000 is a #5 frog, and the Aristo #6 is indeed a true #6 (the higher the number, the more "gentle" the diverging "curve" or angle. 

Just going into detail here to avoid misunderstandings with all the terminology, not trying to "one up" anyone.

Regards, Greg


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

If you have the room I would go with the big USA trains switch.
Well worth the money, no problems.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, no switch seems perfect, if you also consider the electricals. The USAT has a nicer cast brass frog, but stainless is not available. The electrics look nice, but experience has shown that people often remove them. Several people with shorting problems were told by USAT to just remove the electrics. This switch has some electrical stuff to throw the switch motor if you are arriving from the "Wrong" direction. 

Mechanically, with these electrics removed, my opinion is that this is a superior switch, superior to the Aristo. 

There are also #6 and even bigger switches from other manufacturers, like Llagas and Sunset Valley, and Switchcrafters. 

I agree, a "gentler" switch is better. I used to have a crossover with 2 Aristo WR switches back to back, and it was tough on the heavyweights. I know that many people say it's no problem. I used 2 #6 switches and it was much better. 

Regards, Greg


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I have Sunset Valley #6 switches. I have not noticed any problem with my 1:20.3 scale equipment tracking through them. But, like Greg said make sure your equipment is working well also. 

My observations on the SV switches are that they are solidly built. I also have a Switchcrafters Curved switch and based on it I can say it is also very well built.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Also, as compared to Aristo and USAT, the geometry and "tolerances" of the frogs are better on the SVRR, Switchcrafters, and Llagas Creek stuff. 

I don't know if it is because they have catered to the 1:20.3 people who run more scale flanges, or how it evolved. 

All I know is the geometry and construction is better. (In my opinion) 

Regards, Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 

I use SVRR #6 NG turnouts and yes, the geometry is like the prototype. I may be "stepping out on a limb here", but I "think" that LGB, Aristo and USA turnouts are more "toy-like" in their geometry, even the wide radius turnouts. Hope someone can elucidate.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

True switches don't have curved rails, sectional track switches do to fit in a circle of track. 
A numbered switch tells the angle of deflection from the straight track and should be straight beyond the points and past the frog. 

Elucidatingly yours, 

John


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey John,

Thanks for elucidating me. Straight rail beyond the frog was what I thought was correct. This is the way SVRR turnouts are built. THX again.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's definitely another aspect of turnouts. All the LGB switches have the diverging route curved all the way though. The Aristo 4' and the WR turnouts are "curved", the #6 is like a prototype, where the rails past the frog are not curved. 

The USAT switches follow suit, the #6 is "right", the smaller ones are "curved". 

Train-Li is similar to LGB, BUT they did something real smart on their R7, they kept the rails after the frog short, so you can connect curved track to match a curve, or straight track to emulate a normal prototype switch. Smart. 

The other manufacturers don't really make "toy" switches, and follow prototype. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I've used the aristo wr turnouts with my aristo heavyweights with no problems. The problems I had were related to long wheelbase locomotives picking the frog, which I remedied by adding a small shim to the guard rail of the diverging route. I was surprised that my heavyweights had no trouble traversing a double cross over made with aristo wide radius switches and a 30 degree crossover. These segments do not line up very well, and even though it seems to be working, I may end up cutting the curved rails on the turnout a bit to make it line up nicer.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The 30 degree crossover adds enough "length" to the "S" curve produced with the crossover that it works. 

I had 2 WR turnouts back to back, and the "S" curve forced the cars to pick the points/frog too often! 

The 2 turnouts are "hidden" under the car on the right! (you can see the beginning of the turnout just past the end of the observation car at the extreme right)











Greg


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

Ive been buying Train Li switchs and they have been working great, I was warned not to buy the Aristocraft or USA switchs as they seem to need to much work out of the box.

Fred


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By fred j on 23 Jun 2011 06:46 PM 
Ive been buying Train Li switches and they have been working great, I was warned not to buy the Aristocraft or USA switches as they seem to need to much work out of the box.

Fred 



I have to second that.
I have all Train-Li switches on my layout and rail yard and they work perfectly, no modifications needed just install them and your good to go, and they are very competitively priced
They have every size and type you could want from simple straight switches in brass, to hand made double slips in nickel plated brass.

Ron


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

I have found the Aristo WR run around $60 and the #6 about $140, but Train Li about $250. What am I missing?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

(post deleted..made a mistake - SL)


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

I have been using AC X-wide radius and #6 turnouts for 5 years with excellent service. Yes they may need a little work at first but the required fixes are documented. So it comes down to how much your time is worth. It does not take much time for mods............Jim


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Micky, you are missing the quality issues, and the cost to build a "larger switch"... 

In the Aristo case, the WR is smaller and has a plastic frog, the #6 is much larger, and has a metal frog. 

In comparing the cost between Train-Li and Aristo, well sort of like a Mercedes and an inexpensive Chevy... both are cars, but the quality is different, and one will do the job much better than the other. 

Regards, Greg


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## Martino2579 (Jun 4, 2008)

Yes Train-Li without a doubt. My R7s have been great and very reliable despite high temperatures, humidity etc. When one did fail due to my own stupidity, Axel came to the rescue. So, Mercedes quality with superb back up and after sales service.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

A Mercedes is a much better car, but a Chevy will get you where you want to go


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By mickey on 27 Jun 2011 09:30 AM 
I have found the Aristo WR run around $60 and the #6 about $140, but Train Li about $250. What am I missing? 

If you use the Train-Li switches, lots of derailments and headaches









I replaced my 6 #6 switches with the Train-Li Nickle R7's from Axel and couldn't be happier. I use them for high speed crossovers and bypasses and can run the longest car and locomotives through them at full speed with Zero issues even the USAT GG-1. I highly recommend them.

The R7 switch in brass is $150, $160 in Nickel Plated Brass and can handle just about any locomotive out there even the USAT GG1 and USAT Big Boy! (we have video of the BigBoy going through the switch) right out of the box, our R4's are $80. I used these to replace my wide radius switches, they handle everything from an egglinger to an Aristo Mallet and Dash nine with no issues. 

Keep in mind we have switched our "R" terminology to reflect the approximate radius of the turnout in feet we no longer use the LGB style format, so the R4 has an approximate radius of 4ft for and 8ft diameter turnout and the R7 is 7ft radius for a 14ft turnout ect.

The reason the Proline custom switches are more expensive than the regular Proline switches is that they are hand made in Germany to order. 
The ties are made of high strength of resistant plastics, and the specially designed high strength rail chairs are fitted to the tie and rail one at a time for a perfect installation, the hinges and frogs are also a great leap above the average switch.

While the Pro line custom switches do cost more, you do get what you pay for. 
I guess the real question is would you rather work on your switches or run trains through them









Ron


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Keep in mind we have switched our "R" terminology to reflect the approximate radius of the turnout in feet we no longer use the LGB style format, so the R4 has an approximate radius of 4ft for and 8ft diameter turnout and the R7 is 7ft radius for a 14ft turnout ect.



Ron


So why don't you just say 8ft, 7ft, and such?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 29 Jun 2011 08:08 AM 


Keep in mind we have switched our "R" terminology to reflect the approximate radius of the turnout in feet we no longer use the LGB style format, so the R4 has an approximate radius of 4ft for and 8ft diameter turnout and the R7 is 7ft radius for a 14ft turnout ect.



Ron


So why don't you just say 8ft, 7ft, and such? 

Well technically we did, we just left a little math in it (RX2=D)










Ron


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Getting back to the original subject of this thread, have you checked out Switch Crafters? http://www.switchcrafters.com/ They have some excellent turnouts with both aluminum (non-electrical), nickle silver and brass (electrical.) The prices are pretty reasonable and they use Ten-Mile ground throws. I dumped my Aristo wide radius turnouts (well, actually, I gave them to the club) and went with these and I have been pretty happy so far.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ron, since LGB has been using the "R" terminology since forever, it's just plain confusing, since it also resembles LGB in price and quality. 

By the way "we"? Are you invested in Train-Li or Train Line 45? 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Greg,
Axel's main purpose for the "R" designation change to stand for the approximate radius in feet was to make it more intuitive and easier for beginners to understand. 
He had a long thread about it awhile ago and from the responses he got he decided to make the change.

This change only applies to the US market.

As for the second question,









Ron


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