# knuckle joint connectors



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

The metal knuckle joint connector from my usa train did work very well, as a result, the passenger car was dissociated from the locomotive causing derailment since the locomotive from the pulling position now turned to pushing position. I wonder if we should glue it to prevent this problem?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's not quite clear on what your problem is. If this is a USAT passenger car, the couplers are metal, and they hold quite tightly. I've never had one fail. Have you checked it for free-working? Perhaps it needs a bit of lubrication. 

I'm trying to understand, so I am assuming your knuckle "opened", causing the derailment. 

Get a new coupler if this is what happened and you cannot make the existing one work. 

These cars take a large radius curve, make sure you are not running them beyond their limits (what is your curve diameter or radius?) 

Greg


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Greg,

Thanks for help. I have been using this knuckle connectors for over a month without any problem until the situation happens a few days ago. My rail has a small oval shape and obviously it has sharp turns.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

It could be that something in the coupler broke (or wore just enough) which allows it to open with little pressure in pulling. But the question remains, did one or more couplers "open" or did one coupler move up (and/or the other down) just enough to let them slip by each other and thus the disconnect.

Gluing the coupler shut might cure the problem of it opening, but that would make it more difficult to deliberately uncouple the cars (would require the five-fingered "Big Hook" to come lift one car to separate the cars).

Gluing the cars together might also work, but there should be some slop in the coupler connections to help cars go around curves, so gluing the car couplers to each other is not the best idea.

I would suggest that if this is an on-going problem, use the "twisty ties" that come on bread wrappers or in boxes of plastic trash bags to reinforce the coupling between cars. These twisty ties are often referred to as the "Universal Coupler" since people use them to attach cars with different styles/brands of couplers that are not at all compatible. If one tie is not long enough you can join a few end to end to make a longer one. Wrap one end around the coupler shank of one car and then pass the tie under the two couplers and wrap the other end around the shank on the other car. Make sure the tie is wrapped tightly around the shanks, but there is no need to make the tie taught between the cars... again, slack is useful to allow the car connection to bend in curves.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Semp, it's an all metal coupler. (have you seen these particular couplers up close? I have 19 of them) 

It also has a "draft gear" spring. 

These couplers hang together second only to new Aristo ones. 

There's something wrong with this particular coupler, not the design. 

(also, the design allows you to lift cars apart straight up with both knuckles closed) 

Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

What do you mean by a "small oval shape"? Who made your track? What is the diameter of the circle? We are assuming the the cars in question are the USA trains streamliners, is that correct? What is the engine? I have been running those behind USAt's F3s, GG1, and the SDMAC70 on my layout with 10' diameter curves without any problems. There is a lot of swing on the cars and couplers. I doubt that they would go around anything much smaller without a lot of problems. I am surprised that the coupler broke instead of the train just derailing on entering the curve. I have pulled 10 of those cars at a time and never had a coupler fail. Check to see if the little locking pin on the coupler is falling down completely when you couple the engine to the car. Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

He did not state the knuckle broke... there's very little specific information in the two posts. I assume it came apart, but that is an assumption. Greg Posted By mymodeltrain on 16 Jun 2013 10:41 AM 
The metal knuckle joint connector from my usa train did work very well, as a result, the passenger car was dissociated from the locomotive causing derailment since the locomotive from the pulling position now turned to pushing position. I wonder if we should glue it to prevent this problem?


Yep 10 cars here too with S curve and very little straight track: (10' dia curves)


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a picture looking down on the couplers between a USAt SDMAC70 and a USAt postal streamliner on my 10' diameter curve. Both couplers are at or very close to their maximum swing. The coupler on the engine is a plastic step up USAt knuckle. Both couplers are out over the outer rail. There is a lot of stress at the point of contact of the knuckles. I do not see how this could function properly on any tighter curves and not have something give. Chuck














If the pin is popping up and releasing the knuckle you might be able to glue it onto place to hold it down, but if something else is broken in the coupler glue probably won't help. Can you close the coupler and put it on the some straight track with another car and pull gently in opposite directions to see if the cars stay coupled?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, not a great match, but I've seen even worse work ok, way outside the rail (of course it is a function of coupler mounting and car length) 

I never liked the match of USAT "regular" couplers to their passenger knuckles... what a difference in the sizes and shapes of the coupler parts. 

I converted my first passenger car to Kadee to match my locos. I was going to convert all the cars, but I have had such good performance from the passenger knuckles, I left them. 

Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg:


I have done the same thing. All of my engines with the exception of the USAt GG1 are at body mount height. I use Kadees step ups (#831) on the F3 A and B units. I use the USA step up on the SDMAC70 because I have not figured out a Kadee fix. The first car in the consists of my USAt streamline trains has a Kadee (#830) body mounted. Is is only on the PRR streamliners that all of the couplers are stock. If I could figure out an easy Kadee fix for the GG1 I would do it. 

I have not had any trouble with any of my USAt plastic stepup couplers. I probably haven't pulled more than 15 or so freight and 10 passenger cars with them. Longer trains may give problems. I have them on some cars as well as engines. 

In my experience, I have found that cars of the same length, therefore same overhang will work on curves tighter curves than cars with different lengths and overhangs. This also applies to engines. I had to modify the length and side to side movement of a coupler on the engine end of a PRR reefer so that the GG1 could pull a freight train. Nothing I could do, with any standard couplers, could keep the reefer on the track going into my curves. 

Chuck


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Only Ten passenger cars Greg?









I got 14









JJ


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, only 10... hard to find the older cars with the different numbers... don't want dupes.... (of course I am screwed with the heavyweights) 

That train pulls 9.7 amps up my 3.4% grade... with the lights on.. got to convert to LEDs, I'm maxing out my power districts (10 amps each) ... once converted, 14 is actually the number I want, but again, very hard to find the first and second run cars. 

Greg


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 Jun 2013 11:46 AM 
Semp, it's an all metal coupler. (have you seen these particular couplers up close? I have 19 of them) 

It also has a "draft gear" spring. 

These couplers hang together second only to new Aristo ones. 

There's something wrong with this particular coupler, not the design. 

(also, the design allows you to lift cars apart straight up with both knuckles closed) 

Greg 

Greg: 

I don't care if it is "all metal" or "pureed rose petals and bubble gum". The OP said one (or more, he didn't really specify) failed. I have never seen one (I use Lionel "O-gauge" couplers, they are exactly 1:32 scale when compared to the coupler on the caboose on display at Marion Square park), I don't have to have seen an Aristocraft coupler in order to answer the question of the OP ("I wonder if we should glue it to prevent this problem?").

I don't care if it has a "draft gear" spring or a "bottled pulley" autumn. It is the coupler that failed, but there is no evidence HOW it failed, except the question if gluing it would prevent the problem.

Apparently this particular coupler didn't even "place" or "show", let alone come in "second to" any brand's coupler, new or old.

I agree, there is something wrong, but the OP didn't indicate whether the coupler "broke", or if the two cars separated because one slipped over/under the other, or if one just accidently opened because it was not properly and fully closed. (I never questioned the design.)

I only offered comments about what would happen if he were to "glue it" in one of two manners... one, to glue a coupler in the closed position, in which he would have to resort to the 5-fingered big hook (lift one car straight up) to separate the cars, or two, to glue the two cars together such that they cannot be separated ever. Both of which I feel would not be the optimum solution, no matter what the actual cause of the separation was.

I suggested the use of a twisty tie as a possible solution to keep it from happening again without resorting to expensive replacement of a suspect coupler (assuming it really is a problem with a coupler itself and not due to track-work that presents an uneven surface and as such simply caused one coupler to slip over/under the other, thus leaving one car dead on the track and the engine came around the loop and smacked it in the rear and derailed it.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, he did say one failed 
I have seen one, I have 19 of them, I'm pretty darn familiar with their operation, and what it would take to glue it shut, which in my estimation would require the coupler to be working in the first place, or a metal screw in it somewhere. 

I don't quite understand your comment of "place or show", I guess it is casting aspersions on the design or suitability. I believe it is expensive to produce, it's actually a nice looking coupler and in all metal. 

I'm not sure that helps solve any problems, though. 

I'd also say that if the train separated between the loco and the rest of the cars (which is what it seems) it could take a pretty strong twisty to hold the whole train if the coupler was opened. 

Anyway, let's see if we can get more information on what really happened rather than fight among ourselves, ok? 

Greg


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

I think Greg is correct. I noticed the locomotive separated from the rest of the cars at only one particular area of the train rail- it is at the sharp turn ( as I mentioned I have an oval-shape rail, it's a bit sharper than the rail Greg showed in his photo). At that position, I usually noticed a very violent move in the connectors. But it was fine in the last month. However, since a few days ago, the train dissociated from the cars sometime and the knuckle connector from the locomotive opened up.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you think your curves are a bit sharp, then you might be able to trim some of the sides of the coupler box to allow a bit more swing. 

On the all metal couplers, I would recommend graphite as a lubricant (silver painted ones can use powdered teflon) and make sure the locking mechanism is freely operating. 

Now the locomotive coupler will be a slightly different design and as the picture Chuck so kindly provided, the couplers do not mate perfectly or symmetrically. I would consider having two of the same coupler, i.e. make the loco and the lead coupler on the passenger set the same. 

I think we can be of even more help if you tell us what make and model your locomotive is. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Greg, what is the engine? That is one of several questions we need help with to understand what is happening. What is the passenger car? Some of the USA streamliners are shorter than others. I think that the RPO is shorter than the rest of the cars. I am still not clear as to which coupler opened, the engine or the car? One last question which will help us help others in a similar situation, is what is the diameter of the curve? If you can't measure that, most track has a part number stamped on the bottom. The only way we can really help is to know the engine, car, which coupler opened (or broke), and the size of your curves.



Chuck


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

My train is usa virginia truckee and the car directly hooked to the locomotive is virginia truckee passenger car which has ball-bearing wheels for picking up light from the rail. The locomotive has a metal knuckle coupler while the car has a plastic knuckle coupler. If you tell me how to calculate the curve radius or how to post a photo in the message, then I can provide that information next time.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Since your track is an oval, just measure the distance from the center of the section of straight track on one side to the center of the track on the other side. The easiest place would be at the point where the straight joins the curve to the similar point on the other side where the curve joins the straight. That distance is the diameter. The radius is one half that value. My guess from the information that you just gave us is that the diameter is about 4'. Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very intereisting... Who makes the locomotive and what model is it? Something is strange here because normally the situation is reversed, the locomotives from USAT and Aristo have plastic couplers and the USAT passenger cars have metal couplers. See the picture above and see which coupler matches your car and which matches your locomotive. 

Greg


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg:


Back in May he said that he has a USA V&T #7 loco.

Posted By mymodeltrain on 21 May 2013 08:41 AM 
I just bought an USA train-Virginia Truckee 7, it ran well but the train did not ring bell or whistle as said in the manual although I placed the magnets on the rail appropriately. Then, I thought may be the magnets were not strong enough for the reed switches, I decided to use a much more powerful magnet, but no effects as well. Please let me know how to fix this. 
As of now I am confused. I am not aware of USA making older style engines, but anything is possible. It is the metal couplers that throws me. The only engines that I know of where metal couplers are stock are from Accucraft. Maybe a previous owner added Kadees.

Mymodeltrain:

As you can see we are still confused. Did you buy the engine new, or used? Are the couplers on the tender and the coach mounted on the trucks or fixed to the body?

As to posting pictures there is a help forum here on MLS. Scroll down through it. There are at least three threads on posting pictures.

help!!! 

Chuck


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I'll bet it's USA 'style' not USA brand.... prolly Bachmann(just a guess)


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John, I'm inclined to agree with you. Bachmann has a "Silverado" set. It is lettered for the V&T. It contains a vintage 2-8-0 and two passenger cars. It is just the metal couplers on the tender that has me confused. The spectrum line comes with metal couplers, but I did not think that the Big Haulers did. Chuck


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 18 Jun 2013 07:47 AM 
Greg:


Back in May he said that he has a USA V&T #7 loco.

Posted By mymodeltrain on 21 May 2013 08:41 AM 
I just bought an USA train-Virginia Truckee 7, it ran well but the train did not ring bell or whistle as said in the manual although I placed the magnets on the rail appropriately. Then, I thought may be the magnets were not strong enough for the reed switches, I decided to use a much more powerful magnet, but no effects as well. Please let me know how to fix this. 
As of now I am confused. I am not aware of USA making older style engines, but anything is possible. It is the metal couplers that throws me. The only engines that I know of where metal couplers are stock are from Accucraft. Maybe a previous owner added Kadees.

Mymodeltrain:

As you can see we are still confused. Did you buy the engine new, or used? Are the couplers on the tender and the coach mounted on the trucks or fixed to the body?

As to posting pictures there is a help forum here on MLS. Scroll down through it. There are at least three threads on posting pictures.

help!!! 

Chuck

http://www.usatrains.com/r20061.html

Hey guys, I thought the same as John about the engine, but then decided to see IF USAT ACTUALLY had a V&T steam engine and they DO.









But I'm STILL confused as to the nomenclature of the coupler pieces the OP describes.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Now I'm wondering if it isn't used with a KD hung on the rear ... my suspicions arise with the broken sound, maybe gutted for DCC/RC???? 

Well Gary you didn't clear that up! ha ha, but thanks for looking. 

John


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary I think you nailed it. The USAt docksider for the V&T is #7. The number posted by the OP. He also kept referring to the locomotive, not the tender in all of his posts when he talked about the coupler.

The number on the Bachmann engine is "26".


Chuck


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The V & T had docks????


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll check my docksider tonight to see if it has a metal coupler... it might, since I don't run it much, it's due for a DCC conversion, and I want to do something tricky with the smoke, since it has a "chuff piston". 










If this is indeed the situation, not surprising that something is coming apart. A short loco will keep the coupler centered between the rails pretty good, and the USAT passenger car, due to it's length AND body mounted couplers will have the coupler outside the rails on curves (10 foot and under)... 

This is where you get a loco that is closer in length to the car, so the "offsets" match better, or truck mount the coupler on the car... the first solution does not help you on an S curve. 

Greg


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

We found the locomotive, now for the passenger car!  
MMT said: "the car directly hooked to the locomotive is virginia truckee passenger car which has ball-bearing wheels for picking up light from the rail." 
It clearly isnt one of the long USA Trains standard gauge cars.. (since they dont make those cars in V&T)
which means its 99% likely to be:










(USA Trains Overton car)

Scot


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Do those come with optional knuckles?


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 18 Jun 2013 09:15 AM 
Do those come with optional knuckles? 



Nearly everything does..
so probably yes.
He is probably running the USA metal coupler on the loco, and the USA plastic coupler on the passenger cars.

Scot


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

OK guys. Where do we go next to offer our services, FBI, or Scotland Yard? Chuck


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By mymodeltrain on 17 Jun 2013 10:30 PM 
If you tell me how to calculate the curve radius or how to post a photo in the message, then I can provide that information next time.





For the curve, just take a tape measure and measure the distance from one side of the curve to the other.. 
dont worry about radius..just give us the diameter..the total distance across the curve: 










Scot


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot, you beat me to it. I was about to go up and come up with a similar illustration. Thanks.


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Thanks all for the information. I will measure the curve diameter tonight after returning from work. I send this email during lunch break.
The oval-shape train rail above is that what I have but I will let you know precisely the dimension tonight.
Greg, the locomotive and the passenger car above a exactly what I have. All are from USA train. The car was delivered with a loop coupler but they also provided a plastic knuckle coupler and thus I replace it with a plastic knuckle coupler so that I could hook up to the locomotive (which has a metal knuckle coupler).


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 18 Jun 2013 09:52 AM 
OK guys. Where do we go next to offer our services, FBI, or Scotland Yard? Chuck I was just about to say the same thing!







Although I thought we were supposed to ANSWER questions of the OP, but apparently this is a "test" of OUR deductive skills. Ha. Ha.









"Twenty Questions" anyone??







It's ALWAYS an adventure on this site.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Chuck, 
Your 'here' button may not have been understood - posting pics 

perhaps a 'click on here' .... > here < would have pointed him to it! (mine's dead) 

I expect NSA to come calling soon regarding 'our' services. After all they're reading over your shoulder..... just sayin' 

Take care buddy, 
John


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Chuck,

I think you have a point regarding metal couplers in USA train. I am new in this area, and I received the product and believed it as it is.

I bought the Virginia Truckee locomotive made by USA train as a new train. But the seller told me someone bought it before and returned it after running the train 5 minutes. So I assumed everything is new. When I received the locomotives there are two metal knuckle couplers in both ends of the locomotive. But the one in the rear was glued and thus there is noway to push the pin up to open the lock. I talked to the seller and he said he was not aware of that. Since then, I removed the the glued coupler from the locomotive and did not use that one, instead I use the one that is to me, normal and new.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

While looking at the USAt site on your engine, I watched the short video on the engine. At about 1 minute it shows the magnet that they make for use with the engine. It looks to me that the magnet may be a little higher and closer to the rail than the LGB trigger magnets. You might try calling Charles Ro and ordering some of theirs. They should have come with the engine. 


USAt Dockside video 

Chuck


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Chuck,

I agree the magnet is much taller than the LGB one. I may call to order them. Thanks for the video.
Wellington


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John:

I had the same thoughts as you regarding a dockside on the V&T. I concluded that a small engine like that, if there was one, could have been used to switch around the mines and mills. I just went to a V&T site with a number of pictures of the engines and rolling stock. There were no pictures of a dockside that I could find. I do not have any V&T books so I can't go much further.

V&T images 

Mymodeltrain:

If you could tell us where you live, it is possible that someone here on MLS could meet with you and look at your engine and cars. 

Chuck


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck; 

I believe that it has little to do with prototype research, and more to do with the manufacturer's notions of "perceived salability." (Or in other words - "let's slap Santa Fe, PRR, NYC, __________ [fill in the blank] and see how well it sells") The idea is as old as toy and model trains. Some people will buy anything lettered for a favorite road - not that I'm suggesting there is anything wrong with that. It's kind of like shopping for groceries at Kroger - Sometimes there are so many choices for a single item that the shopper is in choice overload. Some "generic" locomotives get lettered for more railroads than we even realize the country had. 

My $0.02, 
David Meashey


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Chuck,

Currently, I am living in Nashville, Tennessee. It's good to know someone around the area to exchange experience with model trains.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

David, I agree with you 100%. But since they went to the trouble to put a little effort on the decoration on the side of the cab, I thought I'd check. Chuck


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Mymodeltrain, I hope that someone in the Nashville area can meet with you. I'm in northern Virginia, a little far. We do drive through your area twice a year on our way to and from Arizona. Chuck


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, in this case its obvious the USA trains dockside locomotive is not even remotely "prototypically correct" for the V&T.. 
and the locomotive and the passenger cars arent even the same scale, or from the same era.. 
but none of that matters as long as the owner of the train is happy.. 

and yes, this is as old as the model railroading hobby itself! 
probably 90% of all model trains ever made have incorrect paint schemes, for the prototype of the model.. 
the unofficial motto of all model train manufacturers might as well be: "if it will sell, paint it up!" 
exact prototype accuracy is simply not a concern for them, in most cases.. 

Its always been up to us, the individual modeler, to decide how much, or how little, we care about such things..
and there has never, and will never, be any one correct answer..



















Scot


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

I have troubles to insert photos in this site since I am not a senior member. But I just added a few photos in my blog. You can view at http://japanvacations-wp.blogspot.com/


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice looking railroad!  

Looks to me that the main problem with your couplers..isnt your couplers. 
you just have really tight curves..looks like 4-foot diameter. 
yes, you are running small and short cars, which helps..but even still, the curves might be a bit much 
even for your short cars.. 

For the locomotive, one thing that might help is to make a longer coupler, so that it will swing side-to-side further.. 
then it should be able to mate up with the truck-mounted couplers on the car better.. 

Scot


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Scot,
Thanks for the comments. I agree, I plan to spend my July 4 holidays to redesign the rail with less sharp turns.
I took me less than a month to create the train rail from a "zero" knowledge of model train, therefore, I will have to learn a lot of experience from you and others in this forum.
I remembered, I called around in May and asked what is the biggest train model I can buy and what are the best brand names out there. One vendor suggested me to use PIKO kit first. From the PIKO circle rail I expanded to an oval shape but the mistakes are the sharp turns.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Scot. Based on the length of the coach (14.5"). I get about 4' also. The cars you show in the pictures are about the longest you will be able to run on your present layout. If you want to run longer cars and engines you will need larger diameter curves. The recommendation that we all make to beginners is to use the largest diameter curves you can fit into the space you are planning to use. I made mine with 10' diameter AristoCraft wide radius curves. I wish that I had gone bigger, but at the time (1994) that was the largest sectional curves available. I can run everything that I want to, but the long cars, such as the USAt streamliners look a little funny. Those are the cars that we all assumed you had. Before you go too far in designing your new layout, there are several things you need to do. First, measure the area where you are planning to build the layout, length and width. Are there any grades that will effect the railroad? Second, what type of trains and scale you are likely to be running: narrow gauge (1:20.3 and/or (1:22.5/24, this is what this is the scale of most of the cars in your pictures), standard gauge (1:29 and/or 1:32)? Or are you likely to be running more than one scale, i run all but 1:32, not at the same time. Some of these will require larger curves than others. In my experience, trains in 1:22.5/24 will run on 4', 5', 8', and larger diameter curves. The other scale need 10' diameter or larger. Some engines and cars in those scales will run on 8' diameter, but they are probably no going to be happy in the long run. Take your time, it will save you headaches in the future. Others will have different suggestions. Read them all, ask more questions and if possible find a garden RR club in the Nashville and join, if there is one. Chuck


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

"10' diameter AristoCraft wide radius curves" 
The above always brings tears to my eyes.... (not really) ... from laughter! 

Ever wonder why G $cale is the only faction of Model Railroaders that use Diameter? My guess is it sounds bigger and Big was the push of manufacturers. 

Wide radius? Where? 
A simple mental math progression, simplified. [from The Department of Redundancy Department]: 

I'll use 1:24 ... 10'D = 5'r =60"r. Half of G is O scale at 1:48 and half of 60" =30". Half of O with a little mm sillines is HO at 1:87 (intsead of 1:96) and half of 30"r =15"r which is smaller than what is normally included with starter sets ... So our Wide Radius 10' Diameter curves are the equivilent of 15"r in HO. 18"r track came in all the HO starter sets and all the 'experts' were quick to advise going to larger radius track. (My experience in the 60s and 70s.) 

A word on Minimum Radius/ diameter. This is a device to sell more product. It does more to keep a 'toy train' tag on your trains than anything else. You don't get a sleek train zooming across the country side, nope, you get awkward boxes trying to stay on the track as they are jerked from side to side. How cute. 

It's time to get a new dealer. He sold a used loco as new and you encountered the same problem as the previous owner; While the loco can negoitiate tight curves, it's long length from back wheel to coupler means it can't pull a train on that minimum diameter/radius. It tries to jerk the cars off to the side and probably wins as IIRC it's heavy. The first owner tried gluing the coupler, it didn't work and he returned it. Either he lied to get the best refund or the owner of store didn't care to look. Or both. 

John


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John, at the time Aristo called them "wide radius curved track" and listed it as 10' diameter. I have just followed their example. Chuck


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want to runs trains like this: 





































(and *only* like that) very short "industrial" type trains, 
then you can get away with 4-foot diameter curves.. 
some people are into those kinds of trains.. 
but curves that tight really limit your locomotive and rolling stock choices.. 

Personally, I think 8-foot diameter should be considered the absolute minimum for the hobby in general.. 
most things will at least run on that, and its *still* very tight for a lot of equipment! 

Realistically, especially if you want to run 1/29 scale diesels and 1/29 standard gauge rolling stock, 
(or the big 1/20.3 scale 3-foot gauge locos too..) 
you are looking at 12-foot diameter minimum, for good looks and good operation.. 
and of course, bigger is always better.. 

and yes, the best way to do it is make your curves *as wide as you can*.. 
If you have room for 20-foot curves, dont lay 8-foot curves because you think that is "good enough"..  
Scot


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Chuck,
Actually buddy it's how Aristocraft worded it, you copied them as everybody else did too.











It's just my buddies at the Dept of Redundancy dept, that remind me, 'cause to them it's still redundant. but Creative! 

I'm not pickiing on you. While your Mallet fit on my 10'D tracks, I wish I had 20'R to host you properly. 
My 'teenage'* scale G24 trains are small and appear to fit the track.... 

* teenage scale... my awkward reality, we're not sure we are old tyme and smaller standard ga. or larger narrow ga. .... and so it goes. In the end, I don't care, as long as it feels right and I have fun. 

John


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Thanks all for the suggestions. I really learn from your experience and will take them in account when I expand my train rail. 

Scot, I viewed your Dad's rail in your website; it's an amazing story. I hope my daughter will also like model train when she grows up. She is only 20 months now but it seems she enjoys watching trains running. Every morning when she woke up, the first request is to see train.


----------



## wgn4884 (May 23, 2013)

If someone in Nashville is interested in a club, on another site I find the Nashville Garden Railway Society 
Contact Name: Ross Evans 
Contact Phone Number: 615-292-6555 
Fax Number: 
Located: Nashville TN 37215 United States 

Meeting Times: 
Third Tuesday every month, 6:30 pm, Operating Sessions every Saturday 11am-5pm at the mall clubroom 


Club Location/Directions to Meeting: 
Hickory Hollow Mall 

Upper Level-next to J.C.Penny 

Bell Road/I-24 

Antioch, TN 

I'm don't how current any of this info is, but mymodeltrain might want to check it out. 

Bill


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

John:


My mallet is very used to coach travel with short "wheel space". It had a great time on your layout, I didn't hear any complaints from it on the way back to Phoenix. 10' d is almost all it ever runs on. It gets first class wheel space at Dr. Rivet's steamups and the two layouts in Phoenix where it has developed some guest privileges (Sun City Grande and the Adobe Mt. RR Park). The only engines that I have that give me problems on my 10' d curves are USAt's GG-1 and SDMAC70. They handle the curves, but I have to pick and choose cars for them to pull. The GG-1 is fine with longer cars (USAt streamliners), but doesn't like 40' freight cars. I had to lengthen a coupler on one car so it doesn't get pulled off. SDMAC70 cannot pull truck mounted couplers into the curves without derailing. It is fine with body mounts. As Scot says, 12' would be better, but I can get by with my 10'ers.

Chuck


----------



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Chuck, 
As we discussed about the activated magnet for USA trains. I ordered a few of them from USA trains as you suggested, and they work. After all, I can hear the sounds from the whistle and the bell. Eventually, the magnets are very tall and have strong magnetic force compared to the ones from LGB. I wonder why the dealer provided me LGB magnets for USA trains and confusing a beginner like me.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

My:


Glad to hear that you got your bell and whistle working. Those USA track magnets really do look different.

Chuck


----------

