# Success ! - LGB Single Euro Semaphore



## Merlin83 (Sep 23, 2011)

Hello,

I wired in my first (of many) LGB single Euro Semaphore - what a delight ! It all worked very nicely - the train approached and stop and then proceed after I operated from the control box. I now want to add more automated control by adding in another LGB control component...I think one of the track contacts will take care of that.

I recently bought (from eBay) an old copy of the LGB book on Track and Technical Guide - since I got a week ago I have been reading through it over and over, of course many of the technical data is somewhat outdated, but I find it very nostalgic and fun to read through. I find all sorts of ideas, which in turn are converted to bids I place on eBay. 


For me the thrill is in automating my trains - to attempt to create a simple circuit and see it work inspires me to now pursue adding much more complex designs, blending analog and digital together. Still haven't figured out what to do as far as a control 'front end' - I will likely get the LGB MTS III, hopefully I can find one used in nice condition on eBay. I now realize I have to have remote control too. 


*One question though: *Why do my trains all run at different speeds ? I have an LGB F7A/B combo, an LGB Alco 2156S Diesel and the new LGB RhB Ge 4/4 - why would this be ? I do run (2) trains at a time but only for short periods of time, usually I'll run the F7A/B and Alco diesel and the Alco freight always catches up to the bigger F7A. The speed input into the F7A/B seems super smooth, I can creep it along in what I think would be prototypical realism of a train slowing to a stop or starting out, where as the Alco diesel seems a bit more 'jumpy' or susceptible to what appears like larger graduated steps in the speed control - please keep mind I have not (yet) opened any of these trains to add decoders, heck I don't think any of them has one either. 





Thank You,

Brett


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Brett: 
It sounds to me like you are hooked. Track contacts are definitely a good second step.

Differences in speed between locomotives is not uncommon, I have even seen it with locomotives of the same type (e.g. 2 otherwise identical stainzs). You will have better speed control once you convert your locomotives to digital. 

Mohammed 

http://www.massothusa.com 
http://www.allaboutlgb.com


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB used 2 different motors over the years, and the electronics in the newer engines kept changing. 

Oldest engines had track power feed motors directly. Newer engines had track power feed diodes in a board and then had connections for a decoder to be added. 
Then some models were upgraded to have mts decoders built in them. 

Each of these gives different running characteristics.


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Brett,


The speed difference is the result of electrical and mechanical differences between locomotives.



Electrical Differences


â€¢ Early LGB locomotives had no electrical devices between the track and the motor. If the track had 14V DC, the motor saw 14V DC. Directional lighting was handled by a pair of diodes. LGB motors can begin spinning with voltages as low as 3V, so trains started early and ran fast. Track power supplies from this era were generally rated for 14V-18V DC. Motors were rated for 16V and 20V DC.


â€¢ Beginning in the late 1970s to early 1980s, the next generation of LGB locomotives saw the addition of 5V regulators (actual regulated voltage around 6.4V) for lights, smoke, and analog sound units. LGB called these systems 'EAV' (German acronym for 'Electronische Anfahr VerzÅ'gerung' meaning Electronic Starting Delay.). As the name suggests, the circuitry also included an electronic 'start delay' which retarded the motor start until track voltage reached about 9V DC. The purpose of the delay was two-fold; it allowed the locomotive lighting, smoke, and sound to operate before the locomotive began to move, thereby adding realism. Secondly, it allowed for shunting operations in stations. Smaller, shunting locomotives did not have the start delay, so slow speed shunting could take place without complex station block wiring. 


â€¢ Beginning at around 1999, with the advent of 'decoder interface' and 'onboard decoder' equipped locomotives, another change took place. The incorporation of the decoder further retarded the starting voltage of the locomotive. When decoder equipped locomotives are running on analog power, the locomotive will not move until around 10V. On top of this delay, the decoder can be programmed to alter the speed curve, acceleration, deceleration, and back-EMF behavior of the locomotive. Track power supplies from this era are generally rated for 22V-24V DC.



Mechanical Differences


â€¢ For the most part, LGB has two main motors: a short shaft and a long shaft BÅ±hler motor. (Yes, I know there are rack rail motors, Mikado motors, handcar motors, etc., but let's keep this simple.) With long wheelbase motorblocks, gearing is used to transmit the power to axles which sits beyond the reach of the motor's worm gear. This gearing changes the mechanical gear ratio of the locomotive, thereby affecting the speed. 


â€¢ Other mechanical differences affect speed. Larger diameter drive wheels, powered at the same motorblock gear ratio, will run faster.


â€¢ Load can also affect driving speed. If a locomotive is pulling a heavy train or moving through a tight curve, it will slow down. DCC decoders use a feature called Back EMF to compensate for this behavior. Basically, the decoder acts as a 'cruise control' device, working to keep speed constant under varying loads caused by curves, grades, etc.


Best regards,


Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One of the huge advantages of DCC is the ability to use custom speed tables to match loco speeds. 

Rather than match speeds to each other, I use a scale speedometer (made by Dave Bodnar) to set the speed tables of each loco, and I match the scale miles per hour to the speed step in 128 SS mode. 

So, every loco will run with any and every other loco in a consist. Of course not all locos will have the same top speed, but most run faster than prototype anyway. 

The other benefit of a custom speed table is linear speed in relationship with the throttle speed setting. 

I know so many people who want to run locos together and cannot because of the speed differences. DCC eliminates this problem. 

Greg


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