# Need for ballast?



## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

I get it that using ballast looks more prototypical. However, I'm planning on floating track on gravel without ballast. Won't have to worry about the ballast migrating under the rail and lifting it or washing in a big rain.

Other than looks, are there reasons to ballast? Should I be spray painting to help with UV protection of the plastic ties? If so, with what? I'll be using a 332 mix of brands (Aristo, LGB, & Microengineering) and metals (brass, stainless steel, and aluminum). I'm in the midwest for climate, not far from Marty.


the other Rodney


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Depending on how coarse your gravel is, ballast provides a smoother surface for the track to lay on. Easier to keep it level side to side and reduce tenting and sharp valleys at joints or "teeter-tottering" over high spots are the train travels over it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

if you are only on rocks I don't why you think ballast will lift track more than coarse gravel. 

if you are going to put the track on a board, then that is true, like people who have laid track flat on hardibacker then found that ballast will work between the ties and the "board". 

is there more to installation than you are describing? 

to be clear is there more to your roadbed than rock? 

Greg


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## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

I'm using about 4 inches of crusher fines under the track. Also some of the track is on a cement retaining wall and some of it is on elevated pressure treated wood. I won't be using ballast on them so figured I wouldn't on the rock part either. 

the other Rodney


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok, so now I understand. 

On the part where you are using 4 inches of crusher fines, I submit that this will erode quickly and you do indeed need to use coarser rock for a roadbed, and in my opinion a subroadbed. 4 inches of fines won't hold up. On a 4 inch thickness I'd use at least 3 inches of coarse gravel (like you use in concrete pours) and 1 inch of "ballast" about 3/8". 

Where you have track on a retaining wall, and on pressure treated wood, yes, indeed, any fine ballast will work it's way under the ties and lift the track, that is definitely true. I even tried this with a coarser stone, where the largest pieces just fit between the ties. The goal was the coarsest rock that could look like ballast, but there were still many fine particles that slowly worked under the ties and lifted the track. I'd not use anything if you are going DIRECTLY on the wood/concrete. 

When I started out, the "common" belief was that you could get away with free-floating the track in ballast, but you HAD to support switches with a board of a piece of hardibacker. Well it looked good, but getting that big piece of hardibacker flat was a pain. But since the "experts" said that was the way, off I went. 

Then I wanted to ballast it... simple, light sprinkling of ballast.... a few weeks later... derailments! Strangely the switch was up in the air!! So I did see that the smaller pieces of ballast had worked their way under the track... 

I thought, ok, it will just be "one layer" of rock and I'll raise the rest of the track to suit. NOPE! The raising went on until I had about 1.5 inches of ballast or so. 

Well, guess what, I was still driven by keeping that big piece of hardiebacker level too! 

Turns out, slipping out the hardibacker and free floating the switch entirely was better and less work. 

The situation is that the "common wisdom" was actually flawed, it's much harder to maintain cross level and regular level with a big board under the switch, as opposed to simple free floating and leveling. 

The moral: ballast works, but it needs it's space! 

Greg


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## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

I had wondered about supporting switches with 4 inch thick solid cement blocks. Since my supply of extra blocks is about used up I'll try the switches without the underneath support. 
I'm not worried about the gravel eroding. I've been partly burying bricks or railroad ties for the sides of my gravel areas with their tops even with the top of the flat gravel area. Also I use a weed barrier to keep the gravel from migrating into the soil. 

the other Rodney


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, unless I missed it, having a solid ballast base supporting the track will help protect the track if someone or something steps on the track.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Rodney, good morning from Flagstaff, AZ.... 

The ballast question has probably been well reviewed and you may still have to experiment a little to find what works (both looks good and runs well) for your specific location. Appreciate Greg's blow by blow testing and problems with using ballast. The second part of your question seems to be about UV protection. Almost all plastic ties come with a built in protection during the manufacturering process. Even so, eventually the plastic will loose its shine and become brittle and crack. You get folks to tell you how many years they have had their layouts outside and the amount of weathering the line receives and what they have done to protect it. I have an outdoor layout in Sun City that I used painted cardboard from mattress boxes to protect when the layout isn't in use (takes about 15 minutes to place the cardboard on the lines and hold it down with garden bricks). Painting the cardboard helps with the curling. The cardboard is cheap (I get it free from Mattress Firm or Sleep America). Lasts about three seasons and then it is toast. My personal area of concern are the switches (they are the most expensive and you can't replace the ties under the switches like you can with straight or curved track. 

So, I think I would look at the operating times you schedule and then figure if you have dormant periods where you do nothing outside with the trains. Then I would protect my valuable track sections with something that prevents weather (sun, wind, rain, or snow) from getting to it at all. Good luck 

Ed


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I dug a trench 4 inches deep and 6 inches wide. 
Then I installed weed block (keeps ballast from mixing with the dirt). 
Then I added 1/4 inch gravel which was mixed with stone dust. 
Track floats on top. 

10 years and no reballasting has been done to date. 

I live in South Eastern Massachusetts, temperatures go from -20 to over 100 and with lots of rain and high humidity.


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## jemurrer (May 7, 2013)

I have also used the trench method also. laid the track about 17 years ago and only had to replace balst in a couple of spots in the spring do to ice build up after bad winters. Live in Rochester, NY about 200' from Lake Ontario. Strong winds and storms come off the lake.


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