# Sound systems - the cheap (inexpensive) and the great ones?



## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All,

I have seen some of the higher end sound systems like Proto sound,etc. but I was wondering what everyone know about low cost or self programable sound systems. I have several engines I would like to put a better than basic chug sound system in but where I don't want the price of the sound system costing more than the engine







.

I am also interested in what sound systems everyone is using and your experience to date with them. Thanks

Rich


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This questions gets asked all the time--you could do a search. 

There really are not very many options--It's very hard to find a reasonable sound system for much under $100. I've used and like the Small Scale Railway card, but at almost $100 it's far inferior t the QSI card which can be had for only 25 bucks or so more. MRC makes a sound card for large scale--a diesel file and a steam file. I've never heard or seen them, but Wholesale trains is selling them. 

MyLocoSound might be a good option--I have not seen heard them live but you can hear clips on the web: 

http://www.mylocosound.com/pages/mylocosoundhome.html 

The American diesel sounds terrible to me but the steam soundfile is not bad 

It seems to me that a bad sound file just gets irritating after a while, because it does not vary enough. I've tried the Phoenix and the Small Scale Railways card. My favorite far and away is the QSI. The sound are good, but what's really ipressive is the way the sound changes under engine load--not just voltage, as when you slow down or speed up, but engine load. The engine labors when it hits a grade and gets quiet when the tracxk levels out. It makes a really big difference in the relaism and also in how irritating it gets


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I've had experience with 3 in steam: 

1. Small Scale Railways. Under $100. No controls. Has nice sounds and is clever about which sounds it's making and always makes sounds appropriate to what the loco is doing. I like it. 
2. Dallee. About $100. Has triggers for bell and whistles. The sounds were rather lame. It's now sitting in my junk drawer. 
3. Phoenix. $250-300. Has more controls that I'm using. The sounds are excellent. I like it a lot.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Some of the Dallee systems don't sound all that bad...some do. Dallee is the cheapest one that will play through loss of track power with the aid of a simple 9V battery. The system draws only 30mA at idle so that the battery will last quite a while. It isn't used when the track voltage is high enough to run the system. Dallee whistles/horns are usually playable and their speed coordination is good without having to muck with them. 

The problem with buying a Dallee is that not too many places sell it and Dallee doesn't provide sound samples on their web site. You have to call them and they'll play some over the phone. 

- gws


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I run the Small Scale Railway cards, they are controlled by an optical sensor so the chugs match the speed. I designed my Road to be able to be run by my grand nephews and don't want to hear a constant whistle! 
The owner will modify the loco recording to match your loco, he removed the generator sound for my 4-4-0, n/c. You can chose from the sound samples at his site. He will also modify the input power handling for a buck, from 12 to 18 volts for me. 
Nice people. 
John


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have use the Phoenix, the Dallee, Sierra and now the QSI. For the bucks QSI is the best bet and the sounds are good. Dallee when activating bell whistle cuts out the motor sounds or system depending on the one you have. Sierra is no longer made and Phoenix is good but pricey and is programmable. Later RJD


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## Big John (Jan 4, 2008)

There is a new and less expensive Phoenix sound card that is shipping this year. Street price is around $190. I haven't tried it yet but I heard that it is just as good as their old system. I think there was an add for it in the latest issue of Garden RR. 

Big John


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used Dallee, Sierra (soundtraxx) and DSX (soundtraxx). I am going to use Phoenix p5 in my next build. Will have to save a lot but from what I have heard and seen I think it's the best. Do some research. If money is an issue Dallee can be ok, I think the bell is bad but the horn and diesel engine sound are good for the money. As far as Soundtraxx, I'd still buy them if they had not pulled out of large scale market. Another budget sound system would be ITT Products. He offers one sound on a continuous loop. I have one for one of my cabooses, very inexpensive and for the money it does what I needed it to do. I don't know about you but sometimes I like to run without sound ,so for me it's not my biggest priority as it maybe for others. Buy what works for you and your budget.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

There are engine decoders with sound that is programmable and cost less than $200 by Zimo and sold by the forum sponsor Train-Li 
Unlike the Dallee, this unit will play several sounds at the same time. You get what you pay for in this hobby. 
Primarily for DCC users, but sounds will work on analog layouts.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

MTH Proto-Sound2 kits cost 149.95 direct from MTH...


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Torby,

Does the Small Scale Rw card come with a trigger? To put it another way, if one is scratchbuilding a critter, say, and wants to add a sound card, does one need to figure on building or providing a cam operated trigger, or magnetic, or optic? I've lost a good deal of high-end hearing, so the last thing I need is a quality sound system.









Les


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chuck, since it's the beginners forum, you might mention that using the MTH sound system requires (unless I am mistaken) a motor with a flywheel and a tachometer strip attached, and that the MTH unit needs total control of the motor. 

I have heard many MTH sound systems and I would put them right at the top of the heap, and they have unique features no one else has, but for this question, the price would have to include the hardware and conversion process, which would far exceed the cost of the Phoenix or QSI or others. 

Also, I am not aware that the MTH comes with triggers. 

Finally, and this is not a dig, but isn't it hard to buy MTH sound/motor boards and/or smoke units for aftermarket installs? I believe MTH does not want to sell them in this arena. 

Again, since this is the beginners forum, I am making this clarification. 

Regards, Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

No one, especially me, claims that Dallee sounds as good as a QSI, Phoenix, Sierra, ESU, Zimo or other higher end sound system. It simply doesn't sound as good. However, for many applications, it is good enough and I think that it has value for the money. 

The Dallee IS less expensive (you do get what you pay for) and it sounds fair. The lack of polyphonic sounds in some systems bothers some folks. The overall lower quality sound bothers some as well. There are some Dallee model numbers that don't sound very good at all and some that are better. Dallee doesn't have a lot of accessory sounds either like dynamic brakes, air pops, brake squeals and other odd sounds. 

However, it does cost $94 (DCC Roundhouse). It is simple to install and integrates well with DCC, DC, and battery power/RC. It has the basic sound triggers and there are models that will play a complete sound sequence when triggered and other models that play only when triggered (playable horn). The playable horns are more controllable than some digital systems. Dallee will drive an 8 ohm speaker and has sufficient volume to use outdoors. It usually does not come with a speaker (some did at one time) nor a backup battery but a 9V battery is sufficient for DC track power. 

For less expensive or older locos, I found that it was an adequate system where I didn't want to spend quite so much.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 20 Oct 2009 08:00 AM 
Torby,

Does the Small Scale Rw card come with a trigger? To put it another way, if one is scratchbuilding a critter, say, and wants to add a sound card, does one need to figure on building or providing a cam operated trigger, or magnetic, or optic? I've lost a good deal of high-end hearing, so the last thing I need is a quality sound system.









Les
Yes. It has a chuff sensor. I started with the optical one, but switched to a reed switch and magnet when it stopped optically chuff sensing. The whole board works from this one trigger.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By Les on 20 Oct 2009 08:00 AM 
Torby,

Does the Small Scale Rw card come with a trigger? To put it another way, if one is scratchbuilding a critter, say, and wants to add a sound card, does one need to figure on building or providing a cam operated trigger, or magnetic, or optic? I've lost a good deal of high-end hearing, so the last thing I need is a quality sound system.









Les

The Small Scale Ry uses an optical 'trigger' I glued it to a half tang on the truck opposit the coupler and painted the axel half black and half white...done. Works great as the chugs match the speed and signals other sounds too. A departure whistle and bells aringing...when stopping there are other sounds such as blow down and the air pump...
Some mention was made of low sun angles affecting the optics, but I run outdoors and never encountered that so I never added blinders! Can't box it up as it needs indirect lighting to activate.

John


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Rich,

It sounds like you got the information you needed. The bottom line on sound and cost is that if you want decent sound you are probably going to expect to pay between $100-200 for a sound board and if you can't install it yourself you are probably looking at another $100 for a sound only board installation.(i.e. Last time I checked St. Aubins charged $100 to install a basic sound board) Depending on what engine you are talking about with installation this does typically come out to be a significant portion of the cost of the engine.

The next question is what is your level of comfort in doing an install of a sound board? Some sound only boards as noted here can be installed fairly easily. 

Next is what engines are looking at installing this in? This is particularly relevent DCS protosound which does require a flywheel on the drive train to function/trigger the chuffing/rev sounds. 

Are you looking to just have automatic sound triggers (ie. magnets) for the whistle and bell or do you want to use a remote. if you just want to go with automatic triggers then your cost will stop there(execept for maybe a few acessories), but if you want it triggered via a remote then you are looking at additional costs for the remote system.

As far DCS in particular, the DCS upgrade kits which includes the sound/control boards and lights Chuck mentioned are readily available and they gladly sell to anyone. If MTH is out of stock, contact one of their dealers, someone always has one although dealers usually ask $180.

This is not the first time I've seen the 'far exceeds' the cost of Phoenix, QSI comments which (along with all these other comments) are always intended to make DCS look bad. 

Here are some numbers and folks can judge for themselves: 

- St Aubins: 
- $140 for an QSI Aristo DCC/Sound board (non Aristo appears to be ~$160?) + $100 install = $240 total
- $219 for Phoenix PHXPB9 + $100 install = $319 http://www.staubinonline.com/store/Phoenix-Sound.html 
- Train-Li:
- $178 TrueSound DCC/Sound board + $150 install = $328
- http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/t...p-528.html (Truesound board)
- http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/s...p-453.html (Install)
- My installs for DCS:
- $325 (Aristocraft Mallet) includes DCS sound/control, install, light control of cab lights, headlight, marker lights, number board lights and 
free install of MTH smoke unit. 

The two other key points aside from these numbers is the flywheel and triggering of bell & whistle. DCS will be more difficult to install because a flywheel is required somewhere in the drivetrain. If your engine has one then it can be utilized and you can use the tach strips provided in the upgrade kit. If it doesn't have a flywheel then the install is going to be much more complicated. Installing QSI in an Aristocraft engine for instance should be far easier than DCS. On the bell and whistle, you need to use the remote for DCS whereas these other sound boards should all be able to have their sounds triggered via automatic/mechanical means.

But to get this back to Rich and what you're looking for, I gather from what you are saying here that you want to keep the costs as low as possible and something you might have a good chance of installing yourself (again to save money). If that is the case I would probably put my vote with QSI.


Raymond


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Raymond,

Thanks for the detail response. As far as my background I have a degree in EE with a minor in math, have been doing soldering since high school and have scratch built computers so that side does not bother me at all (although as I get older *SEEING *what I am soldering is becoming an issue!







Hence I am into LARGE SCALE!)

I have some engines that are very nice (Bachmann Spectrum Climax, Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 American, Bachmann Annie) and I also have a bunch of the basic Bachmann Big Haulers that I would like to put sound in (better than the basic chuff, chuff) but don't want the cost of the sound system to four times the cost of the engine! 

Does anyone know anything about CMI Steam sound system? They are cheap and I was wondering if those might be good for the Bachmann Big Hauler sets?

Rich


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## Bryan (Sep 11, 2008)

Im using a Small Scale RR card, the instuctions state that you can use the cam in the Bachmann 4-6-0, for the chuff but this arrangement for me results in multiple chuffs not sure whats going wrong.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 20 Oct 2009 11:05 AM 
Posted By Les on 20 Oct 2009 08:00 AM 
Torby,

Does the Small Scale Rw card come with a trigger? To put it another way, if one is scratchbuilding a critter, say, and wants to add a sound card, does one need to figure on building or providing a cam operated trigger, or magnetic, or optic? I've lost a good deal of high-end hearing, so the last thing I need is a quality sound system.









Les
Yes. It has a chuff sensor. I started with the optical one, but switched to a reed switch and magnet when it stopped optically chuff sensing. The whole board works from this one trigger.



Okay, thanks.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

QSI $128 G-wire-$97 total $225 free shipping at Litchfield station Bruce and Jerry will take care of you. Progrram your engine before it leaves or you can buy programmer for $75 + or- On Aristo engines and soon USA i'm told all true plug n play no soldering etc. just open locomotive cab up pull out aristo dummy plug plug in QSI and G-wire go run trains simple eazy peazy!! Even if you are electronically minded still the most reasonable for a system like this compared to Phoenix and others. especially for 2nd and on up installs. Frist time out have to buy t-9000 throttle or new nce procab for QSI $180 to 215 + or -. I would not try to go on the cheap you will be disappointed and end up here probably anyway. Take it from someone who knows been there done that. Nuff said The Regal

look on my you tube site for how easy to install or my live channel 

Crazy Train Guy's Garden Railroad Channel - live streaming video powered by Livestream

you tube user 7485jerry check it out


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks, John. Now, there's simple for ya.








Les


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

You can improve the sound of the basic Bachmann analog system for almost nothing. 

see link 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/bachmann_sound_tips.html


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Many thanks, George, for the link. 

Les


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

If you are running 2,3, or more Locomotives at the same time. One thing you could do is put a good quality sound unit in the lead Loco and Dallee in the other trailing units. The dallee is fine for just the diesel sounds. Your lead unit will have the bell & horn. The QSI unit is the best overall for the cost. If your useing track power it can be operated from a simple low cost add on unit to your power supply, and it can also be used with a wireless set up as well. Ask greg he's an expert on QSI.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Bryan on 20 Oct 2009 02:56 PM 
Im using a Small Scale RR card, the instuctions state that you can use the cam in the Bachmann 4-6-0, for the chuff but this arrangement for me results in multiple chuffs not sure whats going wrong.




Bryan,

Not sure if your post was intended for me, but since I'm the only one that asked about triggers, I'll chance it. First, welcome to the board!









Second, IF you were talking to me, thanks for the input on the Bachmann cam.

If you weren't ... oops.









Les


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Rich,

hehe Welll it sounds like you would have no issue whatsoever in installing any of these sound/control boards. This is going to be child's play compared to building PCs from scratch. 

As an FYI, I haven't had a Climax apart so I can't speak to it, but the Annie and the 4-4-0s have to have their motors replaced with one that a flywheel can be fit pm. Since you have the necessary mechanical ability it would just be a matter of swapping the motor out. (motors are ~$20)

You know I think I have a CMI sound board that I took out of my Annies I converted, if I can find it I'll just send it to you. (I just have no idea where it is. will let you know if I find it.) If the board I'm thinking of is CMI, I recall it was ok but not great. 

In the long run I agree with The Regal, I think you'll be happier in the long run if you save up your money and get one of the better sound boards. 


Raymond


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## Trainwreckfilms (Aug 19, 2009)

if you still have access to sierra sound and install them right i have had mine for years and i LOVE THEM!!!! i know i know everyone doesnt like sierra anymore. but i honestly love them... QSI is amazing. and PHOENIX is good too...


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

*I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned using an LGB tender with sound or stealing the sound system from one? $89 gets you a very nice sounding chuff which is varied by voltage (IMHO), a nice bell and marginal whistle which can be triggered by magnets or connected to an R/C system. Wish there was a way to hear these various sound systems side by side. I've installed a couple of Phoenix systems and again in IMHO sound as good or better than LGB...and vise versa. Unless some one can assure me the the small scale or Dallee sounds as good as the lgb, this is a no brainer. Not trying to say the $89 LGB is as good as the $300 Phoenix. Phoenix obviously has many more sounds, but the few sounds (chuff, bell, & whistle) that this cheap little LGB unit makes, sounds pretty darn good! Talking quality not quantity.*


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Sailbode you can hear a comparison of the QSI/ and the Phoenix at my you tube site, its the Green B.N. sd45 that has the phoenix in it the dash 9, and everything else except the LGB Lake G&B has QSI I have phoenix in my Bachmann Shay also. Follow the links to you tube or whatever. The Regal 

http://blueregal.angelfire.com/ 

http://www.mogulus.com/crazytrainguyschannel 

http://www.youtube.com/7485jerry 

p.s. don't know why links aren't clikable sometimes they are sometimes they aren't???????????????????? like a woman unpredictable huh!! 


p.s. I HAVE AN ORIGINAL SIERRA K27 BOARD FOR SALE TOO!! IF INTERESTED

[email protected]


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

My Loco Sound has a unit I used in my Pacific, my wife even commented at how good it sounded. Pretty cheap also. They have diesel and steam, very basic units.

http://www.mylocosound.com/pages/mylocosoundhome.html


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

It all depends on what you want out of a system as far as the sound. As they say you get what you pay for. later RJD


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By George Schreyer on 19 Oct 2009 09:25 AM 
Some of the Dallee systems don't sound all that bad...some do. Dallee is the cheapest one that will play through loss of track power with the aid of a simple 9V battery. The system draws only 30mA at idle so that the battery will last quite a while. It isn't used when the track voltage is high enough to run the system. Dallee whistles/horns are usually playable and their speed coordination is good without having to muck with them. 

The problem with buying a Dallee is that not too many places sell it and Dallee doesn't provide sound samples on their web site. You have to call them and they'll play some over the phone. 

- gws 

Thanks George for your input. I just ordered a Dallee for my E8 and Dash 9. I've listened to several sound clips on YouTube and the respective sites that them them, also on friends layouts. I have not been overly impressed with any including the Phoenix. I decided to try the Dallee's and 'see' how they sound. I live next to a freeway so on some days, sound can't be heard unless you are right next to the loco anyhow. Such is life. At least I'll have something between Jake Brakes and tire sounds on the cement!

Monte


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Monte,

What is a 'Jake Brake'? Never heard the term. 

FWIW, with my hearing I could get by with a file cammed off a driver and rubbing on a piece of metal for 'chuff' sounds. Hi-quality sound is something I'll never need.









Les


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 18 Nov 2009 02:42 PM 
Monte,

What is a 'Jake Brake'? Never heard the term. 

FWIW, with my hearing I could get by with a file cammed off a driver and rubbing on a piece of metal for 'chuff' sounds. Hi-quality sound is something I'll never need.









Les


Les; See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jake_brake


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 18 Nov 2009 02:42 PM 
Monte,

What is a 'Jake Brake'? Never heard the term. 

FWIW, with my hearing I could get by with a file cammed off a driver and rubbing on a piece of metal for 'chuff' sounds. Hi-quality sound is something I'll never need.









Les


My kids had two "pull toys" that used that mechanism to produce sounds... one was a chicken that clucked as it was pulled and the other was a train that chuffed as it was pulled... it was surprising how realistic the two sounds were... the chicken sounded like a chicken clucking and the train sounded like a steam locmotivie chuffing.

Stupid thing is they both had the EXACT SAME mechanism in them!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Semper,

Thanks for the link. I learned something new, today.









Wonder what I forgot, to make room?









Les


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I loaded up on Sierra units so I have four waiting to go into future engines. Three of these units I was able to acquire off of ebay as they came with the locomotive (uninstalled). I then re-listed the locomotives and basically got three Sierra units for under $40 total! (Yes, it _can_ be done!)


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