# Accucraft Warranty outside USA



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Today, it was brought to my attention that there is some 'not so small' print on the Accucraft warranty sheet.
It says "WARRANTY VALID IN CONTINENTAL UNITED STATES ONLY"
http://www.accucraft.com/index.php?show_aux_page=15
So, how does that effect my own future purchases of Accucraft models.
Well after hearing about all the problems that this person had, I am going to have to give it a lot of thought.
It is one thing if it is a $1000 locomotive, but when you get to $5000-$6000 and you are on your own if it doesn't run, or something breaks, then I am not too sure that it is a wise choice!
I guess that the USA is their main sales area, so they feel that they do not need to look after the rest of the world.
Too bad.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Captain Dan (Feb 7, 2008)

David,


I am always good about stepping in where I don't have all the facts, but here goes.


A._ "Well after hearing about all the problems that this person had, I am going to have to give it a lot of thought."_ Don't know who has the problem; is it with the locomotive, warranty or both?


B. The US does not seem to have as many consumer protection laws that countries such as Canada and England have. (I'm not a lawyer, this is only conjecture from reading many posts on Yahoo and other lists.) As such, Accucraft USA may want to protect themselves from unknown (to them) consumer laws in other countries, but still be willing to fix a problem. It seems as if people are usually singing the praises of Cliff L???? of Accucraft USA. I know that I have had a good experience with him. It does seem unusual for a warranty to cover 'only' the Continental US. That even leaves out Alaska and Hawaii? Again, however, I don't know the particulars of the person with the problem.


C. I know it is not a legal document, but talking to Cliff about your concerns as a "Non Continental US" buyer would be the wise choice if you plan on buying the BIG $$$ toys...........


Lets face it, in our hobby, with very rare exceptions, we would never sue a company we purchased from. The legal costs and time would quickly overtake any potential settlement proceeds. Even as an American citizen living in the "Continental US," I should not expect any government help in settling a problem with Accucraft (or most other companies) even if I had a problem. The only thing that will help us fix a problem is the reputation of the company for doing "warranty work." With the exception of automobiles, I don't pay much attention to warranties. 


Bottom line -- Good companies will fix the problem, the poor ones will give you the runaround, regardless of any "warranty!"


Good luck,


Dan Fuller


Carrollton, Texas


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David 

Looks like a document prepared by a junior lawyer. For one think, US case law has established that you cannot be required to send in a warranty registration to enjoy the benefits of the warranty. You do need to be able to show proof of date of original purchase. I also think they are on thin ice claiming that the warranty is not valid in the state of HI. 

I would also maintain that since Accucraft USA has at least five authorized DEALERS [including a distributor] in your country, they would be doing themselves a real disservice to claim their is NO WARRANTY on products purchased through legitimate dealers. 

Mr. Pantages or D M-K should have a cogent response to this as two of the Canadian dealers.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Dan and Jim, 
I am afraid that I don't have all the details as heard it all third hand. 
I do know that eventually the problems were resolved with Accucraft. 
From what I understand the model was just incapable of being run, and during the initial conversations with Accucraft, Accucraft made the statement "Well you know there is no warranty for Canada". 
That statement, and it is in writing, is my concern. 
I know that Cliff does an excellent job in trying to solve all the problems, so that's no problem. 
My concern is that after importing a model into Canada, where I have to pay the government their 5%, and then find I have a 'non-fixable' problem, where does that leave me. 
Is Cliff still going to be able to take it back and fix/replace it (not sure how I get my 5% back - there must be a form somewhere), or am I stuck! 
Hopefully a dealer, or Accucraft, will be clarifying the situation at some point. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Thought I remembered where Tacfoley had some issues with his Royal Hudson, which Cliff helped him with. However, fine print can always be used as a fall back, so guess it would be nice to hear what Accucraft has to say on the subject.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Society is in such poor shape business wise today and a great part of it can be blamed on lawyers. Businesses have no idea the effect these lawyer written warranty statements have on the customer. At a place I worked at previously, our products had a life time warranty. We gladly replace items when they were sent back under warranty. Then the company was sold to an investment group. Well, it didn't take them long to find a lawyer that decided what a lifetime warranty is. A life time warranty as proclaimed by the lawyer and now by the company I worked for is not the customer's life time, but the products life expectency. So that item's life expectency might be determined by the manufacturer to be only 5 years. Then when it fails after 6 years of service, you get nothing. 

As for products purchased by customers outside of the country they are made in, the business I work at now, will honor our 1 year warranty on most everything we sell, but the customer has to pay all shipping cost. This is typically expected by our european customers, but the Canadians don't like it. As one that deals directly with these customers, the suits upstairs don't understand the bad reputation created by this policy compared to the amount of sales made into Canada. 

My father instilled an out look in life that has helped me all my life. What was that? 

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Posted By iceclimber on 24 Nov 2011 03:43 PM 
Thought I remembered where Tacfoley had some issues with his Royal Hudson, which Cliff helped him with.

Talking of whom, has anybody heard of TAC 'cos he ain't been seen round these parts since last Spring I reckon.



As an Accucraft dealer I only sell what I can support, like and understand, which is why I don't sell gassers in NG or 1:29, only 1:32 alcohol engines. I leave the NG and 1:29 to the other dealers round these parts.
David M-K
Ottawa


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Tac has taken a break from the forums.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

He "lives" on Large Scale Central now.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I do know a well known dealer outside the US that always has and continues to repair any Accucraft locos he sells. Though none are covered under warranty from Accucraft. Its part of selling the produce outside the warranty coverage. I think the big parts of they dont want to have to cover shipping to and from the US for repairs. Though you would think since they have a few people set up for repairs around the US that they would do the same for the other countries. Im sure Ian covers all his product in the UK and Europe. 

Though Accucraft always goes out of their way to rectify the problems. Even for people in Japan.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By Kovacjr on 24 Nov 2011 07:15 PM 
I do know a well known dealer outside the US that always has and continues to repair any Accucraft locos he sells. Though none are covered under warranty from Accucraft. Its part of selling the produce outside the warranty coverage. I think the big parts of they dont want to have to cover shipping to and from the US for repairs. Though you would think since they have a few people set up for repairs around the US that they would do the same for the other countries. Im sure Ian covers all his product in the UK and Europe. 

Though Accucraft always goes out of their way to rectify the problems. Even for people in Japan. 
Yes, even for people in Japan;-) Although there is no dealer here in Japan or Asia for that matter, Accucraft (Cliff and Ms Ada when she still worked there) have given an outstanding help and support in solving a variety of problems. Of course the language remains a barrier. I also think that assembly drawings and better manuals (translated to Japanese) would be helpful. But doing this costs money and noone wants to see another price increase I suppose;-)? The best help in resolving problems is that of a fellow live steamer who is accustomed with Accucraft products and a direct email contact with Accucraft service in case of parts. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Jason, 
That's very nice of the dealer, IF it is a fixable problem, and he/she has the ability to make the fixes. 
But what about the more serious problems that may cost the dealer hundreds of dollars to fix. 
Is he willing to take that out of his profits? 
And WHY should he have to make such fixes. 
Why are there problems to be fixed in the first place. 
Now with regards to fixing in, and from, other countries. 
I seem to remember Tac saying, for example, that his Royal Hudson was bought in the US, but the UK distributor was unwilling to fix it for him. 
Likewise, the G1MRC Britannia, built by Accucraft under contract and sold by them in the US, however I heard Cliff say that they had no spare parts for it. 
So, it gets more complicated. 
I just think that whoever sells it, whoever buys it, should have a warranty on it that is easy to make use of. 
Maybe in the future, their quality control will reach the level where warranty is never needed. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

If you buy your Accucraft loco from a non-US authorized dealer e.g. Schug in Germany, you get (in this case) 1 year warranty, see:

http://www.accucraft.de/Garantie/garantie.html 
(Garantie = warranty) 

Regards
Henner


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Henner, 
That is the German DISTRIBUTER, not a dealer, so that's fine. 
He doesn't want you to buy something from the Accucraft Estore, have it shipped to Germany, and then expect to get warranty from him. 
My concern is that there is no DISTRIBUTOR for Accucraft in Canada, only dealers, and I really doubt if they wish to, or are able, to make major repairs. 
Minor ones, sure, but what if there is a big problem, who will fix it. 
Either there IS warranty, or there is NOT, I just need clarification as to what it means to me as a potential customer in the future. 
I buy from a Canadian dealer, who has the loco shipped directly to me. 
I pay the 12% HST (I was incorrect when I thought that I only paid the 5%) and take delivery. 
I then find the frame is bent, or the boiler has a major leak at a solder joint, or 'whatever' is not an 'easy' fix. 
My dealer will probably call Cliff, and what can he say now? 
"Sorry, no warranty for Canada!" 
Or does he say, "send it back and we'll fix it." 
If so, isn't that Warranty? 
Then of course I have the problem of NOT paying the 12% when it comes back repaired, or exchanged - I'm sure there must be a form to fill in somewhere! 
I hope someone will tell me what the deal is. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

One must remember that these are for-profit companies staffed by people who enjoy live steam. they do the best they can to build fine equipemnt that looks great and runs well. they also have to make a profit in order to continue making the models we want. They will do all in their power to sell quality and to satisfy their customers. their power ends when costs exceed income. 

Warrentee work is time consuming and expensive. Shipping is a big part of that cost and shipping outside the US is more costly. Stocking parts is another cost...If the US distributor is stocking British and German model parts when few are sold here that would be wasteful...likewise European or British distributors wouldnt stock US model parts if few are sold there. I expect that is the thinking behind the disclaimer in the warrentee. That being said, in the interest of customer satisfaction, they do what they can. 

I would hope that the warrentee is valid for any retailer supported by the US Distributor. It would seem to me to be bad buisiness to not support their retailers just because he is located across a border! I suspect that is what Cliff would say too.


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi David Leech: 

Email or telephone Cliff or Bing. 

Let us know what they tell you. 

I guess Bing is the final word on the matter, so I guess it is best to contact Bing. 

I received a replacement stack at no charge from Accucraft. I bought the loco from a US dealer and paid the HST when it came to Canada. There is no import tax or import duty. Just the regular GST and PST combined as HST payable to Revenue Canada through Canada Post. Just the same as if you bought the loco at your local hobby shop. 

Maybe this is a new United States only warranty policy? 

Norman


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