# Southern Pacifc U25 lighting info?



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I’m working on finishing up a model of Southern Pacific’s rebuilt GE U25BE #3101; specifically I’m on the lighting control aspect. Radio controlled, 6S-22V lithium power, sound and more likely than not an AUX function or decoder board for more lighting control, Mars light and possibly smoke… 

The front of this engine is equipped with headlights and numbers boards above, a Mars headlight and red light on the hood and clear-amber clearance/classification lights, on the rear of the engine there are dual headlights and clear-amber classification lights only.

Does anyone have knowledge of how SP implemented operation of the aforementioned lighting? 

1). For instance are those clear-amber classification or clearance lights and when were they powered up? 
2). When traveling FWD were the upper headlights and the Mars lights powered all the time? And why no rear red taillight as on the nose, perhaps this was only a consideration on the head-end unit when traveling in reverse?
3). When traveling in REV, rear headlights and front red taillight were powered simultaneously?
4). Were headlights ever dimmed while on standby?
5). Were step lights powered when parked only?
6). Were numbers boards always powered up?

Thanks,
Michael


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Greetings Michael,



1). For instance are those clear-amber classification or clearance lights and when were they powered up?

The Classification lights would normally show white indicating that this was an "Extra" or not on the time table. The colors for the class lights is out - scheduled train on the time table, green - scheduled train with a second section following, white - extra train not on the time table, red - used as rear marker lights when moving light IE no freight cars, amber was never used.[/i]

2). When traveling FWD were the upper headlights and the Mars lights powered all the time? And why no rear red taillight as on the nose, perhaps this was only a consideration on the head-end unit when traveling in reverse?

_The red light only came on when the train went into emergency braking, it was never used as rear red tail light._

3). When traveling in REV, rear headlights and front red taillight were powered simultaneously?

_No See the above comment about the red light, in running in reverse the class lights would be showing red._

4). Were headlights ever dimmed while on standby?

_Yes - they would turn down the lights when meeting other trains, just like you would with your high beams in a car._

5). Were step lights powered when parked only?

_No they were usually left on all the time_ .


6). Were numbers boards always powered up?

_No they were usually left on all the time_ . 

_The red light was intended to tell other trains than might be meeting the train with the red light on that there was some kind of emergency and to take care_, _there might be cars on the ground or people walking about. I may be wrong on this but I some how remember that if you met a train with the red emergency light on you could not pass it, you had to stop short.__ On the SP if you were a scheduled train you would put the train number in the number board, for instance if you were pulling the Morning Daylight your number boards would have displayed depending on weather you were an east or west bound train the numbers 98 or 99, if you were the first section of a scheduled train you would display the train number with a 1- in front of the number (IE 1-99) with green class lights, and if you were the second section of a scheduled train you would display the train number with a 2- in front of the number (IE 2-99) and your class lights would be out. If your were pulling an extra train the number boards would display the locomotive number proceeded with an X (X1234). On the SP the number boards were referred to as Train Number Boards, not as locomotive number boards, this is also why switch engines had number boards because they sometimes ventured out onto the main line_._ It was not until the late 70's I believe that the practice of using the number boards as train number boards went away as all trains at that point were extras any way. The other thing to remember about the SP was that any train headed towards San Fransisco was "Westbound" by time table definition and any train headed away from San Fransisco was "Eastbound", for instance if a train was going from Los Angles to San Fransisco it was westbound even though it was going north._

_I hope this helps you understand the SP Light package. _


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Andre, 

Many thanks for enlightening me on the SP light package. This is exactly the info I was hoping to garner... Did you learn of all this as an interested modeler, railfan or perhaps you worked for SP? 

White-Green-Red classification lights will be a challenge! 

Definitely will need an AUX decoder with this many variables for proper operation of the lighting. 

Michael


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Another question.... 

Did the vertical or stacked dual headlight configuration see use with a Mars light on any SP engines? 

Michael


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

These were found on Geeps and SD locomotives. They had the regular Vertical dual headlight, an oscilating dual headlight above it and a MARS on the top. The MARS light had two lenses, one was clear for normal operation, and one was red for emergency stop. Some of the older locomotives had a "Barrel" MARS light on top instead of the smaller model. You have to dig into the roster to determine what locomotive had what. Check out the SP modelers home page http://espee.railfan.net/espee.html


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Bob, 

Thanks for your help, I have seen pictures of GP/SD's many with a gaggle of lights... 

I should have qualified my thoughts a little better, I was wondering if the Mars light was one of the two; of a dual vertical offering? Or in the circumstance of a dual headlight only, was one ever a Mars light? After digging around I can to the belief the Mars light was an accessory light in addition to the vertical headlights. 

Were the lenses on the Mars light you mention clear/red changed by the crew when required on the fly? 

Your comment on dual headlights, with dual oscillating lights above and then a Mars on the top got me thinking. Is the light on the nose of the U25BE above an oscillating light verses a Mars light. Its hard for me differentiate between the two, perhaps size matters? 

Michael


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Check out this site: http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/ it covers all types of moving warning lights. 

Here are two pages from my web site showing SP diesels. I have some shots of the Geeps running on my layout, but the shots are not real good. The regular headlights are not as bright as the oscillating hradlights. At night, it is a different story. Enjoy the web site. www.liveoakrr.com 

http://www.liveoakrr.com/roster/motivepower2.htm http://www.liveoakrr.com/roster/motivepower3.htm


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Bob 

I found your recommended site after my last post, l found others too, lots of good info....... 

Your heard of SP equipment is looking good! 

What did you use for the Mars and Oscillating light drivers, a decoder or ancillary circuit, one LED or two on F3’s? 

Michael


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

All the lighting is driven by the Sierra Sound systems since they offered lighting options that no one else had at the time. I think QSI can do the same but you need to speak to an expert like Greg on that subject.


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