# Aristocraft locomotive upgrades



## nickco201 (Jul 1, 2008)

I am thinking of shifting my focus in large scale from narrow gauge to standard. My favorite road is the Southern and I model it a lot in HO. I am also building a 7.5in gauge live steam Southern Ps-4. So it seems that Aristo has a lot of SRR stuff. I was thinking of looking at their 2-8-2,4-6-2, 2-8-8-2 and the new 2-8-0. I would really like to superdetail these to resemble SRR prototypes. I was thinking of using trackside detail, and Ozark miniatues parts for this any other ideas? I was actually thinking of converting the 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 to baker valve gear and the 2-8-0 to southern valve gear. Is there a sources for commonwealth tender trucks ?. I really love DCC in HO and the tsunami sound system is amazing. Would it be a bad idea to try to run DCC out side ? Normally ive been just using a DC with a wireless throttle. 
Also as far as rolling stock goes. Would it be smart to upgrade the aristo passenger and freight car trucks to ball bearing? what about the couplers? Should they also be upgraded.If so I was thinking of body mounted kadee couplers, but not sure where to get proper roller bearing trucks.

I realize I am asking a ton of seperate questions but thought it would be easier this way instead of making 10 sperate topics...
Thanks


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Nickco, 

Do a search of the archives on the Product Review forum. Lots of comments there. 

Keep your doors open. The train world is a lot bigger than Aristo and there are other suppliers out there as well. 

Regards, 

GG


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## nickco201 (Jul 1, 2008)

Oh I certainly agree that there are a lot more suppliers out there. There stuff just seems to fit what I am looking for. I would love it if Accucraft came out with a some brass Southern stuff or even a generic USRA heavy 4-6-2 or 2-8-2. In 7.5 inch gauge its amazing how many companies there are of course most are very small but I would imagine Ive ordered parts from 20 different companies for my Ps-4 so far.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The hard part is that the suppliers of detail parts tend to produce 1:20 or 1:24 parts only--too big for 1:29. I haven't found any suppliers of 1:32 parts either, at least not with the variety that Ozark and trackside do in 1:20 or 1:24. So you have to make a lot of parts, or cannibalize other models. When I tried to make a couple Pennsy locos I had to make my own parts out of whatever


Lots of people run DCC outside. I do it, but via wireless using Airwire


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

lownote,

Are you using DCC via track power/airwire or DCC via battery/airwire? 


Nate


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## George Adams (Jan 2, 2008)

One other thing to keep in mind is, NONE of those locomotives are currently in production in the Southern or any other roadname. The 2-8-0 is the only one even on the horizon. You may find a dealer with old stock, but none of them are in stock or in production at the manufacturer. That is one of the things you have to deal with in large scale, items may only be produced once or at best infrequently/ 

George


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Truthman on 05/25/2009 7:35 PM
lownote,
 
Are you using DCC via track power/airwire or DCC via battery/airwire? 

 
Nate 







Nate:


Via trackpower with QSI/Airwire. Constant DC on the rails, DCC signals sent over the air


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Lownote, 

I was told not to use the G Wire under track power, but you do? It doesn't affect the G Wire? 

Nate 

Nicko201, 

Try USA Trains, they have some current Southern stuff like a GP38 and you should be able to find a Southern RS-3 and E-8 from Aristo.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Nate:


I do it all the time--with five different locos, three from aristo and two with Bachmann drives. 21 volts on the track, Gwire receiver in each loco. It's been completely reliable and worked very well. 

It's more expensive in the long run than DCC through the track, and I keep thinking at some point I'll go to DCC through the rails. But this method has been very reliable and I keep thnking "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."




Nicko: I've had good luck finding unpainted aristo locos and redoing them--there are good sources for lettering. But finding premade detail parts has been a bit of a challenge.This Reading RS-3 was made from an undecorated Aristo model. I added a few homemade bits and managed to find a set of diesel horns that were a reasonable size









\

This USAT undeco 44 tonner made a decent model of the 44 tonners used by the W&OD, a local RR now defunct











I'm not a skilled kitbasher, and when I tried to make a PRR B6 switcher out of a Bachman "Annie" I had a very hard time with detail parts









The airpump on the side was made out of bits of brass tubing, the bell out of parts from Bachmann, the generator (not intsalled in this photo) was the smallest ones Ozark made and not really right

I've been wondering for a long time why the market for detail parts is all in the larger scales. It may just be that 1:29, not being the correct scale, tends not to attract modelers


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By nickco201 on 05/25/2009 6:27 PM
Would it be a bad idea to try to run DCC out side ? Normally ive been just using a DC with a wireless throttle. 
Also as far as rolling stock goes. Would it be smart to upgrade the aristo passenger and freight car trucks to ball bearing? what about the couplers? Should they also be upgraded.If so I was thinking of body mounted kadee couplers, but not sure where to get proper roller bearing trucks.

I realize I am asking a ton of seperate questions but thought it would be easier this way instead of making 10 sperate topics...
Thanks




I just added ball bearings to a bunch of Aristo rolling stock. I bought some appropriate sized bearings online and installed them in the sideframes. I can't see any improvement at all, to be honest--the sideframes come with a delrin bushing that's already very slippery and I could not see any improvement from adding the bearings. I also have a few with roller bearigng trucks and while they look good there again I don't see much difference in rolling resistance. Maybe it would be different with ball bearing wheels. BB wheels are very expensive

Couplers--I like the Aristo couplers and they have worked well for me. But I'm not looking for prototypical fidelity--they are too big and they tend to space the cars far apart. They are easy to use and kids can work them (we have a lot of kids visiting our railway) and they have been very reliable for me, running trains of usually around 10-12 cars. Other people here are less enthusiastic about reliability and will say "just go to Kadees and get it over with." 



There are a number of people here who swear by DCC outside. Most of them use stainless steel track. My layout is about half stainless steel and I'm not sure the difference is worth the price. I use DCC but over the air, via wireless.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been using my DCC system outdoors for 2 years and no problems. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, DCC outdoors works fine, there are still some old wives tales that came from the early days of DCC. When I started 9 years ago, I was told it was impossible. 

I agree on the ball bearings, they CAN help with lowering rolling resistance, but I have seen little improvement with plastic sideframes. They seem to help most on a completely level layout where you are not "lifting" the cars up and down grades. Ball bearings can only help overcome rolling resistance, not the laws of gravity or potential energy. 

But on curves, often they are no help. If you use ball bearings on the ends of the axles, the wheels are still "locked" together, and you do not get any "differential action" between the wheels (like a car). 

If you have the independent ball bearings (in the wheel hubs), often the extra resistance to get one turning faster than the other (if you have sealed bearings) cancels out any advantage. 

Lastly if you have independent ball bearings (in the wheel hubs), you usually get some grit or corrosion that does the same thing. 

Like Mike (lownote), I found that properly lubricated axles in plastic sideframes work pretty well. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. Even though you have been warned that the road names/paint schemes are out of production, I'm guessing you are easily capable of painting and decaling.







You might also find used Aristo equipment in the proper road name.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Gents, 

It is early in the AM and a lightbulb just went off while reading this thread and so the question: 

Lownote: Airwire "signals"* over the air* on a 21 Volt DC constant track supply. Question is for all to challenge: Would this approach to DCC be compatible with DCS with the "Signals"* over the track* on a 21 Volt DC constant track supply???????????? Keep in mind that DCS is able to work with either both AC or DC constant power to the track. The method of getting the signals to the loco is what makes the difference .... 

ummmm, good question yes? Or no????

gg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

So you are imagining having DSC in DC mode on the rails, and then using maybe QSI/Airwire in non-mth locos?




I really don't know if that would work or not. I have a feeling the DCS pulses would confuse the QSI decoders, but really I have no idea


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Yes, exactly and you bring up a good point. Need Ray and Greg to chime in on this. 

gg


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

That's on the lines of what I thought when lownote said he uses track power with Airwire. first, i was told not to do that, but then i couldn't figure why when the only difference between track and battery power is where the power is coming from......


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The QSI/AirWire setup should ignore any "commands" coming from the rails when the "Gwire" receiver is enabled. 

If you are using DC for your DCS system, the signal "rides" on the DC. There's a good chance it would be ignored by the QSI setup. 

The only way to find out is try it. I have never seen the specification of the amplitude of the DCS signal, but it has to be at least a couple of volts or it would not work. 

You might get some speed variation on the QSI, but it might work. 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/26/2009 11:01 AM
The QSI/AirWire setup should ignore any "commands" coming from the rails when the "Gwire" receiver is enabled. 

If you are using DC for your DCS system, the signal "rides" on the DC. There's a good chance it would be ignored by the QSI setup. 

The only way to find out is try it. I have never seen the specification of the amplitude of the DCS signal, but it has to be at least a couple of volts or it would not work. 

You might get some speed variation on the QSI, but it might work. 

Regards, Greg






Well Greg, looks like my quest for a DCC system to compliment my existing DCS system has just been narrowed down to QSI and ??? . Worse come to worse, I would still use QSI on the isolated inner track and reserve the DCS for the mainline. If it did work, then I could work both on the same power grid and have a bit more flexibility here. 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And with a disable switch on the Gwire board, you could switch over to track powered DCC as a further option. I think you might be able to use the AirWire receiver in this way also. I have not come across anyone who has done this yet, so you may have to be the "beta tester" ! 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Kripes.... now you make me nervous....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well somebody has got to test this stuff.







You state going where no train has gone before so now it another new frontier for ya. Later RJD


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## nickco201 (Jul 1, 2008)

Why not just use digitrax through the rails ?


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Since you posted this in the beginner forum, the only thing I have to add is regarding the Pacific.

Be on the look out for the older version Pacific and my recommendation is to avoid it. The newer pacific is easier to spot for the Southern flavor because it does not have white walled drivers nor does it have a feed water heater included and the headlight is not centered on the smokebox. The Pacific was lettered for the Crescent Limited as was the heavyweight train Aristo made for it to pull. The Aristo Pacific is based on the B&O P-7 "President" class pacific, built by Baldwin. The Southern PS-4's were built by Alco, if I am not mistaken, and had the valve gear and crosshead guides top and bottom. If you are planning to redo the valve gear anyway, this shouldn't be an issue. 

The other thing to consider is the Central of Georgia painted RS-3's that were done for the South East Large Scale train show a few years ago. Nice looking scheme and since that line was owned by the Southern, it might fit your desires and allow you to obtain more power. (Who can have enough RS-3s?) The C of G RS-3 was done in the more traditional black, white and gold tuxedo scheme used by the Southern, whereas the regular ARisto Southern RS-3 is a green and white scheme. I don't know enough about the Southern to comment but I imagine both schemes are correct. Just adds a bit of interest.

Good luck and happy hunting.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By aceinspp on 05/26/2009 3:44 PM
Well somebody has got to test this stuff.







You state going where no train has gone before so now it another new frontier for ya. Later RJD




Yes and LOL..... I will get fearless Raymond's input and we can take it from there. I need to study up on this QSI stuff, understand it etc. Can QSI run on lower rail voltages.... ie 18 VDC? 

gg


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## nickco201 (Jul 1, 2008)

Actually a few of the Ps4s were Baldwin built. Most had " alligator" style crossheads then were changed to the laird style multiple bearing cross head. The 1401 in the smithsonian represents the "later" look of the locomotives. The other major change was most were changed from baker to walscheart gear. I will probably try to buy a few aristo 2-8-8-2 baker valve gear assemblies which will provide most of the parts to replace the valve gear on the mike. However the PS4 used a long frame assembly on the baker....so it may be harder to find a source. 

http://www.midsouthlivesteamers.org/Meet/2006/Spring/images/spring0622.jpg This is a good freinds Ps-4 at the midsouth livesteamers in Columbia, TN. 

Anyway ya I really don't mind repainting/ re-lettering stuff. So its really not that big of a deal. I will use scalecoat paint. Dang good stuff in mine opinion and works well in live steam beacuse it is heat resistant and doesnt need a primer.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I think that you'll find that the Airwire electronics will cause too much electrical noise/interference and raise heck with the DCS signal just like to many lighted passenger cars electronics will mess up the DCS signal even though your only using track power.

If you'e ever heard how electrically "noisy" the rails are it's a wonder any command system works.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 05/26/2009 4:35 PM
I think that you'll find that the Airwire electronics will cause too much electrical noise/interference and raise heck with the DCS signal just like to many lighted passenger cars electronics will mess up the DCS signal even though your only using track power.

If you'e ever heard how electrically "noisy" the rails are it's a wonder any command system works.




Good point, Ray has installed some kind of diode in his lighted cars to offset this electrical interferance. I don't know.... thanks for the input... good fodder to consider. 

I consider the concept here as a point of curiosity. Either way I will have DCC and DCS working together however not on the same line... . Question is do I or do I not isolate the inner track and separate the two protocols. 

gg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey GG,

So I understand the question to be, would Airwire (w/DCC signal over the air with just plain track power applied to the rails) work ok with DCS and would it mess with the DCS signal on the layout. If I had to venture a guess, I would say it would and has a good enough chance of working to warrant an experiment with the outlay of $ in equipment to give it a try... since the DCC commands are sent through the air. You know anyone with Airwire that would let you try this out?


Raymond


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 05/26/2009 8:15 PM
Hey GG,

So I understand the question to be, would Airwire (w/DCC signal over the air with just plain track power applied to the rails) work ok with DCS and would it mess with the DCS signal on the layout. If I had to venture a guess, I would say it would and has a good enough chance of working to warrant an experiment with the outlay of $ in equipment to give it a try... since the DCC commands are sent through the air. You know anyone with Airwire that would let you try this out?


Raymond






YO Ray.... 

Well, "Going where no train has gone before".... 

Where can I source this Airwire stuff from a reliable dealer that I can speak with rather than speak to a computer? 

I need to do homework. 

So effectively you say that there is a risk however worth the experiment. Is QSI and airwire worth it? This re cab details, control and how does this compare screen wise to other DCC systems ? 

Finally is there anyone out there who thinks that the DCS track signals would really upset the airwire decoder? Greg had some input here already. 

gg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

If for some reason it did, you should be able to sucessfully filter it out before it gets to the board. We could go from there if you do encounter problems. I would vote that it wouldn't affect the airwire decoder.


Raymond


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 05/26/2009 8:51 PM
If for some reason it did, you should be able to sucessfully filter it out before it gets to the board. We could go from there if you do encounter problems. I would vote that it wouldn't affect the airwire decoder.


Raymond




"Going where no train has gone before"

I'm up to the challenge .... need to do homework... Input and support would be appreciated on this trip to Mars guys... Any manufacturer gurus out there? 

gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with Raymond's assessment, all the AirWire stuff is "trying to get" from the rails, is just DC power, if filters are needed, they would still allow DC to power the QSI. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

John's hobbies has good prices on airwire. The Airwire throttle is fine, but I would want to get the NCE throttle that works with QSI--whenever it comes out. It looks to be easier to use. The LCD screen on the Airwire throttle tells you everything you need to know, but it's pretty minimal.


Maybe this should be a separate thread, for the original poster's sake?


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

As this experiment moves forward I will be sure to post a new thread on the topic. 

So, back to the original thread.... what was it again?









gg


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

GG, I can sell you a brand new AirWire 9000 transmitter, QSI G-Wire receiver and QSI Aristo-Quantum decoder with sound for CDN $199. I bought it last fall and never used it.










You will have to buy the QSI Programmer to change the sounds, unless you are happy with a GP-40 sound.

Send me a private message with your e-mail or phone number if you are interested, and I will contact you.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes I'd say this thread kind of got derailed. I believe we ehere talking about making detail up grades to locos







. Later RJD


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

thread..... derailed???

But ze is not possiblllee....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ya it is only here.







. I love it. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I 'm just glad to hear we may have another modern mainliner 1 :29. long live outdoor model railroading.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Paul Norton on 05/27/2009 2:39 PM
GG, I can sell you a brand new AirWire 9000 transmitter, QSI G-Wire receiver and QSI Aristo-Quantum decoder with sound for CDN $199. I bought it last fall and never used it.










You will have to buy the QSI Programmer to change the sounds, unless you are happy with a GP-40 sound.

Send me a private message with your e-mail or phone number if you are interested, and I will contact you. 


That's an extremely good deal


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Low note for the bucks you could be 1/3 of the way towards the desired system of DCC. Later RJD


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