# D&RG 4 wheel caboose



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi,

I am working on a model of the first D&RG caboose – the small four wheel version, which is a bit longer than my DSP&PRR one – though eventually that will change as there is a longer version of the DSP waycar in the list to be done sometime.

This one is built on a sprung chassis, that as it was one of the last made I had to lengthen; the rest of the model follows the basic system I devised for the waycar article that is still in the ‘Articles’ section of MLS .

A short précis of that is the body is 1/8” or 3mm plywood sheathed in planked styrene card; the roof is a couple of layers of .030 styrene card (easier to bend than one layer of .060) with a minor variation that a space is left in the top layer for the cupola to be seated in.

The chassis/floor is plastic 3mm thick PVC solid foam with bits of other thicknesses where required the steps are aluminium sheet strips, and were very high! These were later replaced with an open pair of steps, and later the design as on the waycar. All the detail is made from plastic.

The main interior is empty and painted black; the cupola with its ‘all round ‘ windows is painted with light green sides and a light blue inside roof with a black painted area where it is to be fitted. I have added some sunshades for the side sliding windows; on top is the housing for a lantern.

Here are some photos of the model so far – 












The underside of the chassis /floor - the brass wire between the axleguards will be covered with some white (styrene) plastruct U channel. The outer ends of the springs sit in some pieces of aluminium strip bent to shape. The same strip is used for the steps. 










The body being built, showing the planked cladding; the roof supports are set at the location of the cupola.











The body with its associated bits roughly put together, and in (red oxide) undercoat.












An interior view of the body construction. The canopy ends have been planked to give some extra stiffness to the area - the roof here is .080 thick.













The inside of the cupola, showing the slides for the side windows, and the exterior sunshades on them. The inset for the end windows can also be seen - the light green is not light enough and will be changed!














A final view of it 'all together'. A lot of painting is still needed and just for a change I have the decals already in stock!


Now a question - I live in the UK, so I do not have access to caboose red color - can anyone describe it please? We have a bright red color, which I think should be dropped down a\ bit by adding some maroon into it - was it that sort of color? I would describe my version as a slightly dulled red, but not tuscan or red oxide (that has brown in it), tuscan having more maroon: in fact it could be called a maroon by itself!


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter,

The D&RG painted their cabooses a color called indian red up until 1920. This is a duller red than the traditional caboose red. One recipe was two parts Floquil bcaboose red mxed with one part of Floquil boxcar red. you can get some idea of the colors at this site:


Floquil colors 

The lettering was all white.

Hope this helps.


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Ironton on 01/27/2009 6:42 AM
Peter,

The D&RG painted their cabooses a color called indian red up until 1920. This is a duller red than the traditional caboose red. One recipe was two parts Floquil bcaboose red mxed with one part of Floquil boxcar red. you can get some idea of the colors at this site:


Floquil colors 

The lettering was all white.

Hope this helps.




Hi Rich, I am modelling the 1880's - so that is when the caboose was new, my information (from Robert Sloan's book, and that is repeated by him , in the article in the 2006 Narrow gauge Annual) that the original color was caboose red, then later Indian red. Interestingly in the '1 to 20.me' blog there is a photo of a dark colored (Indian Red?) Bachmann long caboose with another in a lighter color as well.

My very early color I would think did not weather well, red will fade to a dull color very fast, and also is a notoriously 'thin' color to apply. 

Indian Red, being a close derivative of Red oxide, which is basically stabilized rust, in its main color constituent, lasts for ever! I wonder if the color change was associated with the money panic of 1873, and/or the massive and costly expansion of the D&RG after that? 

The link you supplied however is most helpful in giving me an idea as the what the color looks like - Thank you for it.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter,

Remember that most of these are being used at 5000 feet plus. The air is a little thinner up there, so much more ultraviolet gets through. This means that fading is fairly rapid so colors are not stable. Unless you are making it as right out of the shops, anything lighter will work. I lived in colorado from 1957 to 1965 (high scool and undergrad school) and remember the toll on things.


I think the cars were painted caboose red by the manufacturer, and when the D&RG repainted them they used the indian red. Personally I would not try to get an exact match.

Good to see somebody else is trying to build one of these. They are my favorite as the Silverton RR had one, which was transferred to the Silverton Northern.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Excellent looking caboose.

Matching caboose red is tough to do. Without any color photos no one really knows exactly what it looked like.


I guess a good approximation of what it looked like can be seen in this repainting done by the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, Colorado:











Note the "gold" lettering. I alway thought the earliest D&RG caboose red cars had yellow/gold lettering and not white. But I can't confirm this without my D&RGW books...which are in Colorado while I'm in California at the moment. However I think when they changed to "block" style lettering, which was very early on, is when they changed to white.


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: D&RG 4 wheel caboose*

I've seen photos of D&RGW boxcars that were a fairly lurid pink color. The fading issue is certainly a real one, and I would second the suggestion that anything lighter than oxide red would probably be authentic for some car or another, at some time. 

Very nice looking model, by the way. I guess I forgot to say that first because you always do such nice work!


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, 

The caboose is ‘ready to roll’, having been out for a number of miles already from the look of it!

Thank you for the comments regarding the color of these early vehicles – very early in my case; I can understand that when repainted they received a color easily available = Indian Red.

When new – understandably no one knows what color they were, – I asked the Colorado RR Museum and they are unsure as there are no records, which I can understand – much more important (for the time) to do! 

After much though I settled for a darkish red as if the vehicle had been out in the dirty weather (must have been this about October to March ( dirty weather time) in Colorado) for a while. The photo does not bring out the amount of weathering I have added really, but I am happy with it at the moment.

The layout for the decals I did myself, and Stan used his expertise in printing them out, and yes both sides have different numbers! Really the letterboard lettering is a touch too large, but I can live with that.

The drawings I used are from Robert Sloan’s original book, and there was still some guesswork involved in making it. Back to no/very poor records again! Amazingly these cabooses were not fitted with stoves when new; Sloan says they were fitted from 1886, this one is an early one then! 

Inside (which is basically empty), I have fitted a stovepipe as it can be seen from a side and end window. The end windows have some protection bars fitted to them as one of the photos. The text also mentions that the central window was eventually removed – the guards kicked it out getting into/out of the cupola – here they windows have had the glass replaced with wood, and painted the same color as the window frames.

The windows in the cupola can with care be slid open/closed; the underframe gained some chains and a couple of pieces of hefty rope as well – there are 12 hooks fitted into the underside of the floor to hold them. Round nose pliers were very useful in bending large paper clip wire to shape One wraps round under one end and the other shorter one is just along the side – these are from the photo of #72 in Sloan’s book.

Kadee 830 couplers are on order for it, and a guard iis being worked on, as are a couple of flags for the empty flagstaffs, I have now found the 'old hanky' thast is used for the flags! 

Here are a couple of final photos -


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

That looks super. Great job. Good paint choice too









However, October to March = dirty weather time









When there is snow, things stay relatively clean. When the snow melts is when things get awfully dirty/muddy. Normally April - May is the biggest snow melting time.

I consider the real dirty weather time as May - July when it is typically dry and dusty and pine tree pollen covers everything. The pollen doesn't go away until the summer monsoons come. But could just be where we are (8200 feet in the mountains) and not necessarily like much of the D&RGW line.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: D&RG 4 wheel caboose*

Matt, I just noticed that you have a place in Bayfield. When are you there? My sister and husband (Ron and Julie Atkinson) live in Durango and are very active with the D&SNGRR, do you know them? Do you work on the train? My wife and I also go up there to volunteer for some of the special events. Seems like I have met you and didn't connect the dots!


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: D&RG 4 wheel caboose*

Peter, That is a very nice little caboose. I especially like the unusual suspension, I've never noticed one like that before with the equallized leaf springs. Are they opperational?


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Winn, 

No, they do not need to be so - behind them and operational are a set of coil springs. I managed to get the last two spring chassis units made in the UK by a small manufacturer (Ron Grant) that was due to age, closing down. They are the same as the one under my DSP&PRR waycar ; the other is marked for another DSP&PRR waycar that will be a bit longer than my yellow one, and in red oxide.


The suspension is called an 'equalized buggy system' - the same basic design is also used on the DSP waycar but that has some coil springs as well. Both use a central pivot for the lower arm, that having spring hangers at its outside edges, that bear against the (non working styrene) springs. Below the springs the scratch built axleboxes hide the small cast brass axlebox and the coil spring above it. With the spring and axlebox the brass axlebox and spring are totally hidden.


The chain and rope (large size string that was just perfect) - part colored with old teabags, the color enhanced with acrylic ink, and finished off with some earth color acrylic paint randomly applied to it. Then glue in position after gluing in the heavy chain

These little buggies had propensities for jumping off the tracks, and no doubt the rope and chain was for getting them back on! They were very light, and the track was to say the least poor. 

The D&RG learnt its lesson - the next slightly longer (but not by much) cabeese were on bogie trucks.

Glad you liked it and Thank you to all for your helpful comments and replies

The article on the DSP Waycar is in the articles section, here is a link to Chapter 1 (of 2) 

http://archive.mylargescale.com/articles/articles/carshops/waycar/waycar01.asp


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## docwatsonva (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter,

You've created an excellent, not often modeled, caboose. The detail is superb. Would it be possible to get a couple of closeup photos of the under carriage. It would help us "other modelers" tremendously?

Doc


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

*RE: D&RG 4 wheel caboose*

Hi Doc, 
UIs other mopdellers - you are in advance of me I think!! However this caboose is basicaly the same as the other, and I will see what can be done, I need some small link chain (for the brake wheels to almost the brake beams - I wonder of these had coupled brake beams/shoes - that is each wheel could operate both brake beams, or would it have been the much easier system of one brake wheel to one brake beam - no there is not a full linkage envisaged!) when I have that I will get the camera out. 

From the sound of it you are also aware of the dearth of drawings for the 4 wheelers! 

From experience the underside is built to look OK from the side and be 'out of the way' where possible from (tatally non scale) bits on the track in the garden. 

Thank you for the kind comments.


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: D&RG 4 wheel caboose*

Excellent model. Would appreciate more pictures. I didn't know that big ropes were carried under the early cabooses. It's interesting that the Colorardo and Southern cabooses remained 4 wheelers. 

Terl


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: D&RG 4 wheel caboose*

Peter as usual....a really GREAT model.....if it were not on that bench I'd think it was a 1:1 photo.....!!!!


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: D&RG 4 wheel caboose*

Really great work Pete. I think the decision to tone the red down was a good one too. Really nicely done. 

David.


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## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: D&RG 4 wheel caboose*

Excellent! The weathering really lit this one up. 

John


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## Sjoc78 (Jan 25, 2014)

Came across this posting looking for more information on these cabooses. Looks great. I'm working on number 0548 I like that it's sort of half way between the standard rebuilt short caboose and what you've modeled.

I have the drawing for the typical rebuild 0524 so that is one of my starting points along with the book, "Cabooses of the D&RGW," but I'm looking for dimensions of the original slant cupola. Where did you find your drawings?


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi,


The drawings are in the first edition of Sloan's book 'A Century + Ten of D&RGW narrow Gauge Freight cars 1871 - 1981, on pages 182 to 186.


There is also an article, also by Robert Sloan, in the Narrow Gauge Annual for 2006 by Westlake Publishing - no drawings of the original design, but of the rebuilds and the article covers all D&RG cabbese, so not much on the 'as built' version. The article is 56 pages long.

I believe that when they were rebuilt the had straight sides by the way. 

The above annual is available as a PDF for download from westlake - here is a link http://www.finescalerr.com/subscribe.htm#dow 


Yours Peter.


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## Sjoc78 (Jan 25, 2014)

Peter, 

Thanks for the reply, I do seem to recall collecting those Narrow Gauge Annuals for several years, I need to see if I picked up the issue you mentioned. I'm basing my model on the pictures in Narrow Gauge Pictorial showing that 0548 was an oddball it was only halfway rebuilt getting 4 wheel trucks but not the upgraded frame nor straight cupola. Initially I considered modifying my old LGB caboose but I think a whole build would actually be easier since I want it to go with my 1/20.3 stuff. 

I was also curious if you were a 1/20.3 guy or 1/24 or?


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

If you can get hold of a copy of "The Rainbow Route" by Sloan and Skowronski there is a drawing of the 4 wheel bobber on page 405. Do not know exactly how accurate it is but it does have a lot of the dimensions and you can extrapolate what is missing or rely on the drawing. 

Hope this helps.


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