# More smoke?



## Cheapy 38-2 (Jan 9, 2008)

I know most guys dont bother running the smoke generators on their units, but i was wondering for show is there anything you can do to produce more smoke from the generators?  and what can be substituted for the smoke oil sold for the units?  thank you in advance.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

The USA units don't produce much smoke plus they don't have an auto shut off and burn out easily if run dry. I think I read somewhere that some have even caught on fire running dry. The newer Aristo units are pretty good and I have hear the MTH units are even better. I have heard of guys using lamp oil mixed with something else in the good old days but I would advise it. Stick with Aristo or LGB smoke/track cleaning fluid.

-Brian


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I use a 50/50 mix of lamp oil (not the outdoor type) and bbq lighter fluid, works wonders in LGB/Seuthe units.


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## Cheapy 38-2 (Jan 9, 2008)

Brian, I dont know how true it is or if mine differs from yours because of age but my USA GP9 manual says that it does have an auto shut off..like i said i dont know how well it works and dont want to risk burnin something up relying on it. but thanks guys for the pointers.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

To me  Smoke generators are whimppy.   They just don't produce enough smoke.   What would be kewl  would be to produce smoke according to  load.   Like when a Diesel first starts to move a train  It smokes a lot.    Or a  Steam engine  pulling a load up hill  Billowing smoke.     None seem to do that.  Not even   Live Steamers.    

So the reason I don't run Smoke Generators is  They dont look real enough


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## Shawn Fields (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason,
I have mounted a PC Northbridge cooling fan inside my GP-38 right under one of the cooling fans with it drawing air into the shell....it actually helps produce that "forced" smoke effect thru both stacks. and it also spins the cooling fans as well so when I have it Idling on a siding the cooling fans are "running" to keep the engine cool. I picked up power from the rear powerblock and added a bridge rectifier so that the fan will run no matter which direction I'm running.

I have some pics somewhere of one of the club meetings where I ran it.

oh and I use a mixture Aristo Fluid and 3-in-1 oil for my smokers...and it will set off the smoke alarms when I am in the house running....I also get really extended smoke times with this mix too.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Because I run battery power and the time on my long track runs is premium, I never even bother with the smoke units. Besides, knowing me, I'd forget to shut the darn things off. 

--Ron in CC


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

My Aristo Dash 9's and Mikado do an excellent job 'smoking'. I usually run both on battery power and then as Ron said, don't use the smoke feature. When running track power....I use the smoke feature more. I've been very satisfied when using either unit. Only thing I would like to see is a darker smoke.  Just remember, second hand smoke can be damaging to your health! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif


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## Cheapy 38-2 (Jan 9, 2008)

No doubt it would be cool to have a huff of smoke ploom when the diesel throttles up. it could be done maybe with the fan shawn mentioned if it was controlled with the speed of the train.  and blacker smoke would be cool too..but im gonna try to 3n1 oil and aristo or what ever the lhs has in stock.  I know its not realistic but its all in good fun. thanks guys


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Cheapy 38-2 on 01/13/2008 7:28 PM
No doubt it would be cool to have a huff of smoke ploom when the diesel throttles up. it could be done maybe with the fan shawn mentioned if it was controlled with the speed of the train.  and blacker smoke would be cool too..but im gonna try to 3n1 oil and aristo or what ever the lhs has in stock.  I know its not realistic but its all in good fun. thanks guys


Just be sure to a fire extinguisher handy and the video camera rolling. Nothing like a good model train in flames video on YouTube.

-Brian


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## Shawn Fields (Jan 2, 2008)

There's no need for a fire extinguisher for the 3-in-1/Aristo mix I've been using it for some time now and havent had any issues.... I have been experimenting with Aristo Fluid and real coal dust mix..it gives that darker plume that we all want but until I get the formula just right and have been using it for a little longer I would only experiment on engines that have been well ran or heavily bashed.

but I have been using it in my Mallet and U25b's, and one Dash 9 for a while now with no ill effects so far.

and the 3-in-1/Aristo mix I've been using it for almost a year now and it works just fine...no gummy wicks, burnt elements or even that oily splatter you get with just straight fluid.


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## CJGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I just installed a aristo super smoke unit into one of my lgb 2-4-0's that I highly modified. I have it HARD WIRED directly to my rc unit, so it gets maximum curent. IT SMOKES!!!! alot..... it drinks like no other too, The deal with lamp oil is true, and i've never had problems with it dammaging anything in the 4 or so years i've been using it. If you want smoke, get a sd-45 smoke unit from aristo, it's sold in a kit for under $30.00, very simple to install, and works great!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

There is some radio controlled tanks that are made in China by a firm named Heng Long or the like. They are sold in the UK that have very effective smoke units. They can be found on eBay.co.uk from time to time. 

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhp6P69Sshk


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Since most smoke units are really resistors and wicks, I would not use anything but what the MFG suggests. 

A wax residue will clog the wick and make the smoke units inoperable. 

LGB smoke fluid is also a cleaning fluid for their products and I was in a maintenance clinic where we were told to use this fluid to clean the cars/engines and it can bring back the luster. 
This is a good way to promote more fluid sales!!


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## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

The MTH smoke units I have seen at train shows REALLY put out the smoke. However, I never operate mine in the Bachmann or LGB units I have, because they don't put out enough to look real. I operate my trains outside, and there always sems to be a breeze in this valley I live in. That really makes it usless.


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## steam maker (Jan 11, 2008)

Can wax residue be cleaned off the wick? 

Joe


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Just kidding Shawn! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif

-Brian


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Having worked at several shows stuck beside people running MTH trains, yes their smoke units WORK, but they also STINK. It doesn't smell like good coal smoke either, more like unburnt kero. (The last smoke oil I could actually stand the smell of was the old toxic Flyer stuff).... 

My 7 YO runs smoke on my modified LGB 2017 and Lionel James.... I usually don't.


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## Shawn Fields (Jan 2, 2008)

I knew you where kidding Brian..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif

But I have seen the flaming loco video before on the Tube.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep, MTH is the king of smoke & it's patented...DCS locos w/ MTH smoke units have 3 levels of smoke output along with labored/drifting smoke. The big MTH smoke units are 4 times the size of any other manufacturers units.

The best smoke fluid imho is JT's Mega-Steam... http://www.megasteam.com/index.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Shawn, what ratio do you mix the 3in1 to the Aristo fluid? 

Regards, Greg


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## Shawn Fields (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,
It's a 60/40 mix on the fluid or close to that ...more 3-in-1 than Aristo..the Aristo fluid acts as a thinning agent.... it works great and I have noticed anywhere from 10-15 minutes more on the runtimes too depending on the smoke unit... I had my Mallet parked on a siding with just the lights and smoker on and it smoked for almost an hour..... heavy smoke....so heavy that it could have passed as one of your prime cigars !!!


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## eddie (Jan 2, 2008)

hehehe non of my engines produces large amounts of smoke so I just save the smoke fluid to clean my track


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## jasher817 (Jan 2, 2008)

I can say that JT's Mega-Steam ( http://www.megasteam.com ) is some of the best stuff out there. It works in MTH, LGB, Bachmann, Aristo Craft and USA Trains smoke units. And the best part is you can get different scents. And If you do get a clogged wick just use some Aristo smoke fluid to clean it. I have only needed to do this once thou. My nieces love to guess what scent is coming from the loco's as they go buy.


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

"To me  Smoke generators are whimppy.   They just don't produce enough smoke.   What would be kewl  would be to produce smoke according to  load.   Like when a Diesel first starts to move a train  It smokes a lot.    Or a  Steam engine  pulling a load up hill  Billowing smoke.     None seem to do that.  Not even   Live Steamers.   "

JJ, you might want to check out these 2 videos of mine then!

The Bachmann DCC-&-Sound-On-Board 3-truck Shay: www.youtube.com/watch
*& here's the 3-trucker double-heading/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif with my Accucraft live-steam Shay!  

www.youtube.com/watch



                                                                                                                                                              Tom




*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hah! Try this one! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ7mNYpSDFw 

Wimpy it is not! 

Regards, Greg


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

I bought two of the Made In China R/C Battle tanks.  Neither smoke intentionally. Given the quality, you are better off pursuing other sources of smoke.  I remember smoke tablets for my Lionel which produced good smoke.  But that was the late fifties when everybody smoked.


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

*Greg, I've seen that KM-1 smoke system demo before; that probably has to be the MOST REALISTIC SMOKE /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif I've ever seen out of an electrically-powered model!  (Although from what I've heard, that loco it's demo'd in is NOT cheap!  Think I remember reading something about a price tag in the $8K /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif range!).

                                                                                                                                                              Tom


*


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Really interesting idea on using the coal powder in the fluid.  I'll really be interested to hear how that works out.  

The 3 in 1 sounds interesting too.  I was afraid to use anything like that because if it's not safe to use as a lubricant because of the (what I guess is solvents) then I would think there is a risk of it affecting the plastic it came in contact with after it's atomized.  I may have to try it once though!  

To Jason's question, you can use ultra pure clear lamp oil from wal-mart.  Never had any issues using it.  

I also agree, MTH is really the king of smoke.  I have videos of the Bachmann Annie, Mallet, etc all with MTH smoke units using straight lamp oil.   I'll see if I can get Stumpy to post a couple of pics from the train show this past weekend where we had the three Mallets with MTH DCS and MTH smoke units going.  They put on quite a show and litterally filled the whole place with smoke.  

Really and truly as Brian said, unless the wind outside is really still, smoke units outside are really worthless.  

On Diesel units, I've found the aristocraft units (on my Dash-9s) put out what I think is a protoypical volume, velocity and thickness of smoke... the MTH diesel units may put out more though.(never seen one in operation.)

Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/14/2008 8:35 PM
Hah! Try this one! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ7mNYpSDFw 

Wimpy it is not! 

Regards, Greg


I remember seeing that some time ago.  That is by far the BEST smoke system I've ever seen.  Amazing stuff!

Raymond


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I remember seeing that some time ago.  That is by far the BEST smoke system I've ever seen.  Amazing stuff!

Raymond

Raymond is being modest.  This is almost as good - certainly got me inspired to do some smoke.

Bachmann_Annie_with_MTH_DCS_Video_6_150kbs.wmv


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a link to the pics of the Mqallets at the train show this past weekend. Later I will post a pic of my Annie smoking at the show. These belong to Ray Manley. 

      http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/4/postid/5638/view/topic/Default.aspx 



Cliff


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

Jason,

TA Stuidos makes a unit called "Turbo Smoke".  It takes input from your sound card to increase smoke with RPM, 'Diesel Accell'.  In the case of steam, it 'chuffs'.

AND its cheap /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif

www.tastudios.com/tastudiosupgrades/smoke_unit.htm

Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't know if people would think $80 is cheap, compared to stock units. I will buy one to try, I recommended it to a friend after some research, he is very happy with it, and the construction is pretty rugged, more metal than plastic. 

I'd like to find out what an MTH system costs, my guess is a lot more... (thus making the TAS unit cheap)... 

Dave have you tried one yourself? 

Regards, Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

My understanding is that the MTH unit costs around $50, but they are perpetually out of stock. (Either lots of folk are buying them to experiment with, or the in-use units are being replaced frequently.) 

Doug is putting the TA (Train America) unit in his F-scale Northern; it seems to be Lionel's answer to MTH?


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## dami (Jan 16, 2008)

For guys that use 3 in 1 with Aristo
Which 3 in 1 oil do you guys use? WD-40 ones? if yes, which one (motor oil or multi purpose oil)? 
does any one know where I can buy these in Toronto, Canada?

thanks

P.S. I have ART-29311 smoke unit


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 01/16/2008 6:47 AM
My understanding is that the MTH unit costs around $50, but they are perpetually out of stock. (Either lots of folk are buying them to experiment with, or the in-use units are being replaced frequently.) 

Doug is putting the TA (Train America) unit in his F-scale Northern; it seems to be Lionel's answer to MTH?


I did get 3 out of them a couple of months ago and they do run $55.   Considering I've never had one fail, I don't think they anticipated the volume of one gauge installs in non-DCS engines do drive the sales of the smoke units and probably only planned on keeping stock in the few rare events that they might need to replace one.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The newer USA diesels have fan driven smoke units about like AC and have an auto shut off.  I have several models that have them along with the Aristo units.  I also have the TA smoke unit in a Mallet and its puts out more smoke than anything I run.  It will last for at 1 hr.  Now for the use of smoke I use Propylene Glycol which is sold at only a real Pharmacy .  It comes in pint bottles.  I came across this reading what ingredients are in various smoke fluids.  Shawn your mixture sounds interesting also.  As you know the problems I've had with AC units so will try yours also.  Later RJD


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Really interesting RJD, thanks for sharing that.  So have you tried normal mineral oil, like baby oil/lamp oil?  I'm curious if the Propylene Glycol had better results.  I'm going to see if I can aquire some.  So I assume that Walgreens won't sell this stuff?   Maybe it's available on the internet somewhere?

Raymond


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## Shawn Fields (Jan 2, 2008)

R.J.
My mix works great...and you can get 3-in-1 oil at any good hardware store and Aristo fluid at any good Hobby shop.

Just remember 60/40 mix as that is the most comfortable and extreme mix I feel comfortable using.....but you could go further.

this mix should smoke just fine in your troublesome smokers.


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## Shawn Fields (Jan 2, 2008)

Raymond,
I  might experiment with the mineral oil in one of my smokers....maybe mix it with Aristo fluid.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Shawn, 

I'll be really intersted to hear how it compares.    The more smoke the better.  

Raymond


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a picture of My Bachmann Annie coming out of the tunnel on our club module. There are a few coal cars behind it.









 Cliff


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Your annie was smoking great!  Too bad I don't know we got any better pics of it.  It was going so fast it blurred all the pics.  LOL


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, I wish they weren't blurred either. I should have set the camera on " sport scene". They would have come out better. I will get better pics of it next time tho.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Raymond you are correct in not being able to obtain the fluid I use aty Walgreens as I said only available at a real Pharmacy .  It works great and you can also thin it down with AC smoke.  I have not tried the minerial oil as yet.  The good thing about buying what I use its a lot more fluid for your money compaired to buying 4 oz at 5 or 6 bucks.  It really works great in the TA unit and smokes and smokes kind of like the energizer bunny.  Later RJD


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By jasher817 on 01/14/2008 6:03 PM
I can say that JT's Mega-Steam ( http://www.megasteam.com ) is some of the best stuff out there. It works in MTH, LGB, Bachmann, Aristo Craft and USA Trains smoke units. And the best part is you can get different scents. And If you do get a clogged wick just use some Aristo smoke fluid to clean it. I have only needed to do this once thou. My nieces love to guess what scent is coming from the loco's as they go buy.


I just ordered a couple of bottles..will let ya know how I did with them.

Bubba


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

This brings up another something I never posted on and that is to post a caution of using LGB smoke fluid in anything but LGB or all metal smoke units.  I bought my Hudson second hand and the previous owner used LGB smoke fluid in it.   Well for the longest any time I pulled fluid out to do work on the engine so it wouldn't spill it came out an orange color.  Well come to find out the gasket between the top board and the reservoir was disolving and falling away! (it was orange)  anyway I have heard that fluid is a also a 'cleaner' which must mean it has some sort of solvent in it.  That solvent must have disolved the gasket.  I don't have this issue with any other units and replaced the gasket so it's now ok.  

My caution is you should be careful in using any fluid that is also a 'cleaner'.  I'm sure solvents aren't good for plastic and don't think it would be good for the plastic around the smoke stack or in an aristo unit.  Just my two cents.

Raymond


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 01/14/2008 11:43 PM
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/14/2008 8:35 PM
Hah! Try this one! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ7mNYpSDFw 

Wimpy it is not! 

Regards, Greg


I remember seeing that some time ago.  That is by far the BEST smoke system I've ever seen.  Amazing stuff!

Raymond


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

One of our club members has one of these locos.  We still have not gotten it to produce the smoke as seen in the video.  Of course it was operating out doors. Later RJD


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## Skip (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By dami on 01/16/2008 7:24 AM
For guys that use 3 in 1 with Aristo
Which 3 in 1 oil do you guys use? WD-40 ones? if yes, which one (motor oil or multi purpose oil)? 
does any one know where I can buy these in Toronto, Canada?

thanks

P.S. I have ART-29311 smoke unit


Canadian Tire.        3 in 1 is a decades old(one of the oldest marks) general purpose light petroleum oil for general lubricating purposes.    Lamp oil in its various forms is kerosene.  The clear white stuff is high crack -  same product that is used for kerosene heaters.  The lower grade versions (have a yellow tinge) would likely produce more smoke as they are a bit oilier.  Important note:  _Paraffin oil _in England is the same product as kerosene in North America, and _neither_ is the same as medicinal paraffin oil sold as mineral oil, pharmaceutically.  Different distillation.  Because these products all have different flammabilities, know which you have before you light it up.

The commercial products smell like they are a vegetable oil, not a petroleum oil, although the only commercial product I can find around here is the Lionel brand, which apparently contains "petrolatum" (dissolved Vaseline? Ok, looked it up - high density paraffin oil (mineral oil), yup, vaseline).  It works ok, but smells like old french fry oil going by. .  My USAT engines smoke well, especially the GP9s, the Aristos, not as good.

If you're mixing your own,  do a drop test on an aluminum plate with a match (away from the stock) - compare it to the commercial fluid - you run the risk of creating a mix with a lower flash point, which the smoker might ignite, not smoulder.  Plastic locos loaded with accelerant burn real good!

DO NOT USE WHITE GAS, NAPTHA, OR COLEMAN FUEL AS THE SOLVENT PART OR AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR LAMP OIL!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Careful with 3 in 1 and WD 40 around your plastic parts.


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## lvmosher (Jan 2, 2008)

Well...late to the topic.  But I always use smoke on anything bigger than a switcher. These USA, GP38s have 2 smoke units each, with fans and are all controlled by  RC so I can turn them on and off.  Inside at the last ECLSTS they'll drive you out of the building but the kids like it...along with the sound and lights. Outdoors it's more a function of the lighting.  Morning and afternoons are best for the light  and noon is the worst.


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## MarkLewis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By cmjdisanto on 01/23/2008 6:26 PM
Posted By Rayman4449 on 01/14/2008 11:43 PM
I remember seeing that some time ago.  That is by far the BEST smoke system I've ever seen.  Amazing stuff!

Raymond

Amazing if it can do that on one smoke supply fillup for more than a couple of feet. I find even the MTH system doesn't hold enough smoke fluid for a long run.
I loved the comment by the HO partisan who wants that in HO. In his dreams!
Mark


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I've had great luck with the time between fills on the MTH units.  The reservoirs on the MTH ones are HUGE.   Here are comparison photos between the Aristo and MTH.  Fluid volume per heating element is much greater on the MTH.



















LOL  Yeah, it will be really tough to get that kind of smoke out of an HO unit, but I wonder how the MTH HO Triplex looks?

Raymond


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## MarkLewis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 01/28/2008 3:09 PM


Yeah, it will be really tough to get that kind of smoke out of an HO unit, but I wonder how the MTH HO Triplex looks?

Raymond


It probably looks great to HO Scale eyes. You know, the eyes that can read the forums' normal text size without squinting.

Mark


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## MarkLewis (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, I did a quick test of MTH smoke fluid vs. JT's Mega-Steam fluid using my MTH GS-4. This was not an exhaustive test, so don't take this as anything but an observation. Using successive runs with equalamounts of smoke fluid, letting the engine warm up for 5 minutes, and then doing a single runa until all traces of visible smoke vanished, it appears that JT's Mega-steam smoke fluid does produce more smoke volume than the MTH fluid, but the fluid was exhausted three minutes earlier than the MTH smoke fluid. These were indoor bench runs using track rollers.

I will try to do a more structured test later, but frankly, what I'd like to see is analyses of the fluids via Mass Spectrometer along with more structured tests. One inhibiting factor with my bench tests is the presence of pet birds in the house; birds are notoriously adversely effected by products that vaporize and I won't run test that could bother them.

Mark


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ray your MTH unit looks about like my TA and they do smoke quite well.  Have one in Mallet and using with the chuff switch.  If it was indoors it would drive you out of the house.  Later RJD


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

The MTH has a chuff sync which controls the smoke output? What kind of input does the chuff sync need?


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

MTH uses an optical reader to read a black and white striped flywheel to determine: Speed control, chuff, and smoke puff pulses, among other things.  So it's all part of the integrated sound and control system.


Raymond


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## billsharron (Jan 3, 2008)

Is three in one oil plastic compatible?


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm pretty certain it isn't, which is why I think we should be careful using it for smoke fluid.  

Raymond


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## coolhand (Jan 7, 2008)

I know that B'mn recommends plastic compatable lubes sold in the train and hobby shops.


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## Alpski (Jun 11, 2008)

I'm looking at adding a smoke unit with a turbo fan. I'll be using a Zimo decoder and wondered if I should use the USA machine, or the TAS? Any suggestions? 
thanks, 
Alpski


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I just got a TAS unit, but have not installed it. Pretty good write up here comparing some. MTH may be a good way to go, but it's pretty big, so I'm glad I chose the TAS unit. 
http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=168&Itemid=208


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just got my TAS unit, hope to install it in my AML K4, and hooking up chuff switch, so will see how it comes out. Did a static test and it made a nice volume of smoke. 

Regards, Greg 

(thanks for pimping my site Jerry!!)


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, no problem Greg, Joe Hall sent if over to me. Forgot to mention it was yours, but figured people would know, reading the address. Glad you posted the good info. Not sure when I'll get mine in, so anxious to see how you do with yours. May be a challenge getting it in the Zephyr. Jerry


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By steam maker on 01/14/2008 8:23 AM


Can wax residue be cleaned off the wick? 



Joe





Ohhhhhhh, no ya don't! Stick to the formula! 

Ye Royal Smokemaker.


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## steam maker (Jan 11, 2008)

LOL - Matt


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I now have two TAs units in stalled in my Mallets. All I can say the smoke is outa sight. I do have both hooked to chuff switches also. Will probably get a couple more. Later RJD


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Videos Please! Pretty please!


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## Shawn Fields (Jan 2, 2008)

Come on R.J. wheres the videos??? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Skip on 01/28/2008 5:05 AM
Posted By dami on 01/16/2008 7:24 AM
For guys that use 3 in 1 with Aristo
Which 3 in 1 oil do you guys use? WD-40 ones? if yes, which one (motor oil or multi purpose oil)? 
does any one know where I can buy these in Toronto, Canada?

thanks

P.S. I have ART-29311 smoke unit


Canadian Tire. 3 in 1 is a decades old(one of the oldest marks) general purpose light petroleum oil for general lubricating purposes. Lamp oil in its various forms is kerosene. The clear white stuff is high crack - same product that is used for kerosene heaters. The lower grade versions (have a yellow tinge) would likely produce more smoke as they are a bit oilier. Important note: _Paraffin oil _in England is the same product as kerosene in North America, and _neither_ is the same as medicinal paraffin oil sold as mineral oil, pharmaceutically. Different distillation. Because these products all have different flammabilities, know which you have before you light it up.

The commercial products smell like they are a vegetable oil, not a petroleum oil, although the only commercial product I can find around here is the Lionel brand, which apparently contains "petrolatum" (dissolved Vaseline? Ok, looked it up - high density paraffin oil (mineral oil), yup, vaseline). It works ok, but smells like old french fry oil going by. . My USAT engines smoke well, especially the GP9s, the Aristos, not as good.

If you're mixing your own, do a drop test on an aluminum plate with a match (away from the stock) - compare it to the commercial fluid - you run the risk of creating a mix with a lower flash point, which the smoker might ignite, not smoulder. Plastic locos loaded with accelerant burn real good!

DO NOT USE WHITE GAS, NAPTHA, OR COLEMAN FUEL AS THE SOLVENT PART OR AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR LAMP OIL!








This is what I tried to copy and post into the public forum thread on "Has anyone used lamp oil in their MTH"


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Old USAT units did not have auto shutoff (they look like a small square pancake), new ones with the circuit board and fan motor have autoshutoff. 

To improve an existing unit, make sure the wick is in good shape, so it sucks up a lot of fluid. 

Full voltage is important on "dumb" smoke units. 

The Aristo unit has an on-board regulator, so any voltage over about 7 volts gives pretty much the same results. 

Try different stock fluids, you might get a bit of difference, I have not seen a huge difference. 

If none of that works get a better smoke unit: 

Aristo >> TAS studios >> MTH 

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02/04/2009 4:18 PM
Old USAT units did not have auto shutoff (they look like a small square pancake), new ones with the circuit board and fan motor have autoshutoff. 

To improve an existing unit, make sure the wick is in good shape, so it sucks up a lot of fluid. 

Full voltage is important on "dumb" smoke units. 

The Aristo unit has an on-board regulator, so any voltage over about 7 volts gives pretty much the same results. 

Try different stock fluids, you might get a bit of difference, I have not seen a huge difference. 

If none of that works get a better smoke unit: 

Aristo >> TAS studios >> MTH 

Regards, Greg






Let's see if I can get Raymonds valuable input on the MTH smoke system... 

Line voltage requirements? (for smoker and for general operation) 

Auto shut off?
Super sucking wicks? 

Utrapure lamp oil or is Johnson's Baby Oil OK too? 


GG


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

For the MTH unit, the voltage requirements are different for the fan and heating elements. Although I'm pretty sure the fan runs off 5v and the heating elements can operate on 5v but normally operates on lower. 

The MTH unit has no auto-shut off as it's just heating elements and fan. MTH's controlling electronics are in their DCS Protosound control & sound board.

Super sucking wicks: I use the standard wicks that comes with the MTH units. I would make sure you use a proper fluid(one that doesn't leave a residue) and don't run them dry to get the best long term performance.

Baby oil works fine but smells horrible. (to me) I use simple ultra pure lamp oil (Lamp light Farms from walmart - http://www.lamplightfarms.com/lamplightlampoil.html) use the yellow label not the blue (Medallion). FYI, yellow label fluid doesn't smell as good as the blue, is thicker and lingers more. 

I personally would NOT use anything that had any sort of solvent in the fluid. We are all so worried about using plastic compatible oil to lube our wheels but then dont think about that with regards to the smoke fluid. Remember that fluid is turned into a vapor and will coat the smoke stack pretty good and is likely to coat the inside the boiler to some extent.

If you look to replace the smoke unit, it's going to depend on how you plan to drive it as to what you want to go with. 

Easiest to implement should be: Aristo / TA Studios
As Greg noted, the aristo board can handle straight power input (but I never personally confirmed if it could handle voltages over 5v which is how I think they are powered in the Aristo engines.) The TA Studios I think is the same way, has electronics on board where you could just connect your input power (not sure the operating range). 

Harder: USA Trains / MTH

USA has a separate control board they use in their engines that you should be able to get to basically duplicate what the Aristo and TA studios has as far as electronics.

MTH would be the most difficult because their controlling electronics are built into their DCS board. You would have to build regulating electronics to control the power to the fan and heating elements to keep from damaging them.

Of course out of all of these the MTH would be your best performer. (figures it would be the hardest to install, right?)


Raymond


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

OK simple as that... 

Use ultrapure lamp oil, don't worry about low voltages as the DCS system runs track voltage at full power regardless of loco speed... 

And most importantly make sure that the smoke unit has a compliment of oil in it at all times and be sure to shut off smoke unit when not needed... 


yes? ( and suped up lamp oil does the trick from an economics perspective be it indoors or out ) 


I try to keep things simple in my world... .... .... .... ...... ....... ............ ................


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