# need help valuing live steam engines



## fabforrest (Nov 28, 2009)

i am trying to help a widow divest her late husband's trains. he had some aster live steam engines that are completely out of my area of expertise. how can i determine the value of these items?


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

You don’t say were you are in the world but if her husband did have a collection of Aster engines I am sure he would have had friends in the hobby. I suggest his widow contact his dealer or any of his friends and ask them for their suggestions. She can always check on whether any prices suggested to her are fair by contacting the importer. I have seen two things happen in this scenario, stuff is sold far below value to a “friend” or it sits for years because the widow is told it’s worth its weight in gold. Of course the price on each unit will depend on the condition and which model it is. 

Something that I have done is price every engine I have, both what I paid for it and what one has sold for on the secondary market with that date and have a list that my wife and kids know of.


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## Two Blocked (Feb 22, 2008)

Contact Mr. Jerry Hyde at [email protected] , (740) 946-6611 for the best advice in the Small Scale Live Steam hobby; electric too. He was the Aster importer for ten years or so, and he has vast experience in e-bay merchandising and estate sales.


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## fabforrest (Nov 28, 2009)

thanks. these items are located in florida. the friends thing did not work out so well as one of them offered a very low amount for everything (including the Lionel and other stuff) so she is wary of that route. she tried ebay for some things herself, but grew weary of dealing with people when she could not answer some basic questions (e.g. does it run?). she knows what was paid for some of it. all purchased new (probably factory built) (except for one item). original boxes. i have all the details.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want to go the auction route, Maurer in PA specializes in model train collections. They will travel and run an auction for you.
*http://www.maurerail.com/*


and have a list that my wife and kids know of.
I hope you also tell them who to contact for help. 

The UK EM Society (4mm true scale) has/had a formal 'executor' committee, of members who volunteer to help in such situations. Seems like a good thing in a mature hobby.


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## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

Post what She has I am sure that the MLS people will give You a fair market price.And will tell You if it was a low ball price.But remember it is hard to do with not see it.You said the trains are in Florida,Might want to get with Norm Saley.He is in Orlando.And remember on Lionel.The 027 starter sets that sold for $19.95 will not bring the big bucks,But a $89.00 GG-1 or Hudson in mint cond. will. I am talking 1948 prices 
Regards 
Bob


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## fabforrest (Nov 28, 2009)

here are the items 

. Aster G.1 Live Steam Engine - NYC Hudson J1C 5265 - serial # 68 

(In the atttic, I have the original boxes, It is brand new and never been out of the downstairs 

display case.) Have additional papers and assorted parts for this one and the Pennsy below. 



. Aster G.1 Live Steam Engine - Pensy K. 4s. 5475 (Original boxes, etc. same as above.) 



. Gray live steam engine...don't know mfg. He bought second hand from a man in NH. It has the 

following markings: Deutsche Reichsbahn 86 005 Gt46.15 Krupp ESSFN 



. 2 Pullman Cars - Edgar Allan Poe and Liberty Bell These are also by Aster. I found 

them in a catalog, Eastern Railways by John Gummo 



Club Baggage - Liberty Bell 

12-1 Pullman - Edgar Allan Poe 

32" in length and approx 8 lbs each 

scale 1:32 



. LGB steam locomotive #2085D green and black (original box) 



. LGB electric locomotive #2140 green....electric engine with 2 pantograph for twintrain 

operation 



. PRR N6B Caboose by Aster. Found in the Easter Railways catalog


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Some fair estimates, based on previous sales, these will vary on condition and market interest, your mileage may vary:

-Aster NYC 4-6-4 Hudson:
Mint, unsteamed, original box, tools and paperwork: 
5,500-6,500 USD.



-Aster PRR Class K-4 4-6-2 Pacific:
Mint, unsteamed, complete (detail parts, including all 7 marker lights), original; box, tools, and paperwork:
5,500-6,500 USD.
Mint, unsteamed, but missing some detail parts, still with box, tools and paperwork:
4,500-5,500 USD.

-Aster DB BR86 2-8-2 Tank locomotive (War Grey):
Used, Depending on paint/detail condition:
1,500-2,000 USD.

-J&M Pullman coaches, PRR lined/unlined livery:
500-600 USD each.

-Aster PRR Caboose:
350-400 USD.


The DB BR86 tank locomotive was made by Aster in 1987. The War Grey versions were known to soot up due to the pot boiler burner charring the paint on the boiler shell and saddle tanks. Provided that this model does not have any other issues, the price I estimated is a fair one. 


The Passenger cars are not of Aster manufacture, rather a J&M models in England production. These were sold in the US under John Gummo (along with the K-4, Hudson, and PRR caboose) Eastern Railways. The LGB items I could not give you prices on as I got out of ozone burning a long time ago.


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## fabforrest (Nov 28, 2009)

thanks. this is very helpful.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Fab Forrest- 

The LGB 2085D could be anywhere from $300-600 depending on condition (condition of box, worn/damage, modified for other couplers, missing bits, heavy use, etc. toward lower end, nicer toward other end of price range).


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan - the last Hudson and K4 that I know of sold for 4, not 5000+. Mint and unsteamed is not necessarily helpful since that only matters to a collector. An unsteamed K4 may well have the old boiler, making it worth considerably less if you plan to run it. One needs to be especially carefull with the K4. 

Anyway, I would say anything over 4 is fair. Over 5000 is too high. Of course, we are really haggling here. I doubt that someone willing to buy them would be too worried about the cost. None are cheap. All are wonderful locomotives.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dont forget about the last K4 on ebay for just over 2000.00


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

K4- so the range would be between $2K and $7K (Dr. Row sell)...whatever the posted price its only a estimate at best given the true worth is what someone else is willing to pay. My guess is that the K4 selling at 2K was probably someone who did not know much about it or poor ebay selling skill or just wanted to get rid of it.

As John as mentioned the K4 earlier model had a "thin wall" boiler but it was functional, the true problem was the operator allowing the water level to drop below 7/8's on the sight glass thus developing a leak or collapse flue.

Pricing high is not bad...one can always reduce the price but starting low one cannot raise the price during the sale.

Should be interesting with the economics and job loss. Probably see the item(s) selling overseas given the drop in the dollar to most other currencies.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

John-
Hence the words *rough estimate*! The gentleman asked for a price and what I gave him was based on both judgmental and comparative data (very fair as well given there are no photos), not someone's haggling or bargain basement deal. 
If we are going to get into a price war, why don't we just say they are worth exactly what Eastern Railways sold them for in their fireball sale, which was _around_ 1,800 usd in the late 1980's', BRAND NEW. K-4's and Hudsons are collectible, and some of the most desired asters for their detail and cosmetic features. The K-4 is still renown as one of the most detailed Asters to date,and is probably the most detailed US outline Aster. 
* 
*
Again, it all depends on the economy and the buyer's market. Having brokered quite a few K-4 sales (and observed a few hudson sales), I/we do know that they can fetch upwards of +/-6,000 usd. A mint kit has been known to be bid up to 7,000 before the auction ended. Granted these are rare occurrences (the 7k kit was a few years ago), but 4,500-6,000 for an excellent condition K-4 is completely reasonable, regardless of the steamed/unsteamed condition. 


The problem boilers were only until serial number 45 or 50 (cannot remember offhand), this is hearsay as no one ever had hard numbers to say so, although a majority of these were due to the bad design of the sight glass. Once the boiler has less than 7/8 of a glass of water, the top of the large flue is exposed, risking overheating the metal and causing fatigue in the form of flue collapse. Having owned and/or operated more than a half a dozen K-4's with and without the replacement boiler, I can tell you the boiler failures are largely due to mismanagement of the engine by the operator. So long as the boiler is full to start with and is kept up on the fine line between priming/steady running, the flue life will be as normal as any other boiler. Once you start stressing the metal, you run into a problem with fatigue and flue collapse. 



Jason-
The 2,000 usd K-4 was not anywhere near good-excellent condition, missing a lot of coveted detail parts and having cosmetic damage, possibly some mechanical as well. You cannot compare that to a described mint, excellent-perfect condition locomotive. 


Now that we have strayed off of the topic for better or worse, I still stand by my estimates since a good to excellent condition locomotive can certainly fetch those prices. Just like selling a classic car, it all depends on your buying audience at the time of the auction/sale. Aim moderate to high, and be willing to accept reasonable offers on your initial price is all I can say. These are not like fine wine and do not better with age, but they do hold their value to an extent.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan - I understand your point. As a rough estimate, the Scots/Irish in my means that everything is worth more than I will pay for it!


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## fabforrest (Nov 28, 2009)

thanks again, all. this has been very helpful.


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