# wanting to get into live steam



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

does anyone know if there is some live steamer out there for under 200$ or is that impossible?


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

That is pretty low, you may find something used. The Ruby is a common starter locomotive.

http://www.reindeerpass.com/RUBY-1-Live-Steam-Locomotive-040T.aspx


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

You might find one on eBay, but it's likely to be more in the "toy" category (Mamod) than very realistic in appearance or performance. Even then, live steamers under $200 are pretty rare. I've seen some go for between 200 and 300.

I was in the same position as you--wanting to try out live steam, but not wanting to invest a lot of money--and after doing some research decided to save up for a while. With a used live steamer, you're less likely to be able to fix something that's wrong (as a beginner) than with a sparkie, and you have no idea how it's been used or cared for,

I bought an Accucraft Dora as my first steamer--it's easy to fire and run, pretty trouble free, and I still enjoy running it even though I have other, fancier locos now. Anther choice in the lower-price end of things (as Mike mentioned) is a Ruby. Once you start looking at Roundhouse, Regner, or higher-end Accucraft stuff, you're probably talking serious money  If you're OK with used, just keep checking eBay religiously.

I'm sure the "old hands" will be along with more, better advice.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

T&W;

I am not aware of anything new that is under $200.00. Perhaps you could locate a gently used live steamer for under that amount. The Accucraft Dora lists new at $449.00. You will still need to buy fuel, distilled water, steam oil, and lubricating oil. The Dora model does not have a pressure gauge or a sight glass. Its run time is about ten minutes.









I started with a Roundhouse Millie. Presently they list at $860.00. They are good runners, and I have gotten over a half hour's run time from mine on occasions.









I'm not trying to dampen your enthusiasm. I usually have to save and save and save before I purchase a live steamer, but they are worth it.

If there is a live steam group in your area, try to visit them for advice and encouragement.

Best,
David Meashey


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

does anyone think they could possibly sell me one they dont use much, like a ruby? i dont care if it is heavily used


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a new Ruby that is of the orignal run.a friend has it and wants to sell. Can get you the loco and all the items needed to run for about 325.00. Thats the cheapest You will find for a new loco.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Kovacjr said:


> I have a new Ruby that is of the orignal run.a friend has it and wants to sell. Can get you the loco and all the items needed to run for about 325.00. Thats the cheapest You will find for a new loco.


 thank you so much for the offer. I cant afford it at the moment, but if i save for a while, then maybe. but at the moment, i only have, at most, 250.00


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

the more i research, i think a ruby is the best choice for me.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Is there an easy coal conversion for ruby?, or should i stick with a butane fired boiler as a beginner? by the way, how powerful is a ruby? can it handle pulling a train up my steep 5% grades? i am most worried about it going downhill, because directly at the bottom is a 5' radius curve.

P.S. i am still looking for one, so PM me if you are willing to let one go. at most, i can do 250$.


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

5% grades are pretty much a non-starter for live steam. You need to get them below 3% if you plan on using RC and can control the throttle, below 1% if you want to just let 'er rip.

"power" with steam locos is mostly about traction. If you can get a Ruby to weigh 15lbs empty, it'll pull lots of cars, but my 5lb Roundhouse Sammie will pull no more than 7 cars on 1.5% grades.


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

re: coal vs butane - If you're on a budget, butane is easier to find cheap. If you're new to steam butane is the way to go - less maintenance, less prep-time.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

T&W;

The Accucraft Dora and the Regner Chaloner are actually geared locomotives. I have pulled a 4% grade with the Chaloner and four cars in tow. Most of the geared locomotives are over $1,000.00 in price. I have not pulled any severe grades with the Dora, so I cannot vouch for that model. You may want to either mitigate your grade or install another, more level track. (I know, yet one more expense to consider!)









Way back when I ran the little Crown Metal Products 4-4-0 at Hershey Park (mid 1960s), that little locomotive was able to pull about a 1.5% grade - thanks to having relatively small drive wheels. That locomotive is gone now. Scrapped decades ago. She was coal fired. The locomotives I last saw on that ride (also decades ago now) were propane fired. 

Just more points to ponder,
David Meashey


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thank you guys, i will either regrade my mainline, or run her on my track in the garage. now all i need help with is finding one to buy. and i could use a LOT of help with that


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

With a budget of only $250 you're going to have to be extremely lucky to get a good engine - you would be much better off to save up at least $1000 and get something new. Because, if this is your first venture into live steam, you're unlikely to be able to assess the condition of any 2nd hand loco you may be offered without additional help.

These small cheap engines are understandably poular with beginers and consequently they are more likely to have been run low on water - or with the flame in the smokebox - with possible irrepairable damage to the boiler.

The alternative might be to sell some of your extensive collection of .....



Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> you probably wont believe it, but i'm 13 years old. started in LS 3 years ago with a big hauler. since the, have scratchbuilt one loco, bashed others, and accumulated a large amount of *USA trains, Aristocraft, Bachmann, LGB, and the old lionel g scale.*


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

well i have only *1 *aristocraft stock car, and *1 *usa flatcar, and the LGB is just my track, along with the old Lionel track, and i have an old lionel caboose and gondola. and my 5 engines, 3 passenger cars, boxcar, other flatcar,2 cabooses, and i think i may be forgetting a frieght car, are all bachmann. only 2 engines run at the moment.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> Is there an easy coal conversion for ruby?, or should i stick with a butane fired boiler as a beginner? by the way, how powerful is a ruby? can it handle pulling a train up my steep 5% grades? i am most worried about it going downhill, because directly at the bottom is a 5' radius curve.
> 
> P.S. i am still looking for one, so PM me if you are willing to let one go. at most, i can do 250$.


Here is a build log of conversion for a Accucraft Ruby to coal fired locomotive:

RFC-conversion

The base unit along with the cost of conversion could not be done in your price range.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Find a live steamers group near you, befriend a really old man and maybe, if you play your cards right.... you might find a working loco at that price.

It wouldn't hurt, if your town and state were listed in your profile, never can tell where an invitation might come from, out of the blue. We are a social bunch. 

The next best thing could be; sharing the experience with others, until you've saved for something worth your money. Join the nearest Garden Railroad club .. 

We want you to enjoy the experience and not get burned by worn out toys.
John


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

You can also build your own for not much more than $250.00 depending on the current cost of source materials. Check out Michael Martin's site: http://www.panyo.com/mso/BPE.htm

Scott


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is an idea you might consider. Build a Roundhouse Engineering kit in stages. First buy a chassis kit, then later when you have more money, buy the boiler kit. And finally to top it off buy the cab kit. This way you spread the payments over time and the best advantage is that you know how a live steam locomotive works and how to maintain and repair it if needed. Roundhouse kits can be found here: http://www.roundhouse-eng.com/kits.htm#steam

I recommend the Billy kit, which will provide a sweet running, reliable 0-4-0 locomotive that can run on almost any track. Several dealers here in the US can get the kits for you including The Train Department:
http://www.thetraindepartment.com/


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

Second the Roundhouse kit idea. Really good support, really easy to build something that runs well. It takes a while for stuff to get to the US, but it's worth it.


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> well i have only *1 *aristocraft stock car, and *1 *usa flatcar, and the LGB is just my track, along with the old Lionel track, and i have an old lionel caboose and gondola. and my 5 engines, 3 passenger cars, boxcar, other flatcar,2 cabooses, and i think i may be forgetting a frieght car, are all bachmann. only 2 engines run at the moment.


Put some of your rolling stock up for sale on eBay. You should be able to make $200 with 4-5 cars easy if they are in good shape. - Then you can afford that $350 Ruby mentioned in this thread. If you have extra track, sell it. If you want to go all-steam, consider selling some of your working electric locomotives & their supporting electronics. I sold my PIKO digital starter kit ($1200 new) for a _loss_ just to pick up an entry-level Roundhouse loco - and I have not regretted it a bit.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks to you all. i am buying a new ruby from T.T.D. i paid 250, and a gracious forum member has paid the rest for me!. i hope to show you all picture of its first run as soon as i receive it! now can you all help me with advice, tips & tricks,for running a ruby?


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Congratulations! - that's really great news ....


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Unless it's radio controlled, I would suggest you run it on a dead level track, at least until you get used to running steam.
Welcome to the real hobby.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

The ruby is fun! I have started out with two...modified both to suit my tastes!

I am glad you got one and am happy you got help getting it...steamers are a generally friendly and helpful group!


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

T&W;

Oddly, I have had no experience with a Ruby as yet. (I may be called upon to run one at the Virginia Museum of Transportation in September.) Most folks seem to think they are a very good first engine. Hope you get lots of enjoyment from yours.

Yours,
David Meashey


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

One technique to learn about live steam and to become familiar with the Ruby is to fired it up on rollers.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to the wonderful world of live steam. It's a slippery slope from here though, Ruby is a gateway drug!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

hopefully i can soon get hold of jason from the train department to finalize the order.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad everything worked out for you. Make sure you post pictures and videos for us to see. That is how it started for me on a very low budget, now I have a handful of steamers lol.......................


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i will post a video as soon as it arrives


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

If you ever get out to the Indiana area, I will let you try your hand with my coal fired Ruby. I didn't build it, Larry Herget did. I got it thru the help of my loving wife and a generous friend. Get your feet wet with gas firing, then hopefully our paths will cross and you can try coal. My wife's family is from Lake City, PA, up next to Erie. Congrats on your first live steamer. Make sure to read the directions, do not use car oil for the steam oiler and ask any questions you have before you fire her up. There are no stupid questions. We all want you to have a good first experience with live steam. Ruby does best with a few cars to help slow her down, running alone she is a bit of a jack rabbit. Steam her on blocks the first few times so you can get the hang of keeping the gas set right, and how the throttle works. There is a kit to put RC into the Ruby cab, they sell them on ebay and on their web site. I can also recommend subscribing to Steam in the Garden magazine when your funds allow. There were lots of articles a few years ago when Ruby came out. I will see if I can find them and make photo copies for you. Mike P.S. Here is my coal fired Ruby.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

In the past there was a "masterclass" using a Ruby base for modifications of the standard structure into custom design. Some good reading about the locomotive that could of of interest:


*MLS Live Steam Class 2004 - Build A Live Steam Accucraft Ruby Kit By Tom Farin and Various Authors*
Tom Farin's MasterClass based upon building and modifying Accucraft's live steam Ruby locomotive kit, supplemented with sections by various authors. Unfortunately, this class is incomplete as it was never finished.

*Chapter 1* 

*Chapter 2* 

*Chapter 3* 

*Chapter 4* 

*Chapter 5*


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

all good advice
the number one rule, never to be broken ......never

do not let it boil dry
much better to have a shorter run, and top up with water until you have a really good feel


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

And get a goodall water top of valve ASAP, so you can add water, then you can refil and run again without waiting for her to cool all the way down. If the live steam bug catches on good, look into one of the little Regner geared easy line engines for your next one. My first engine was an LGB/Aster Frank S 0-6-0. Sold off a bunch of my postwar Lionel to pay for it. The Ruby wasn't around back then. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Mike Toney said:


> And get a goodall water top of valve ASAP, so you can add water, then you can refil and run again without waiting for her to cool all the way down. If the live steam bug catches on good, look into one of the little Regner geared easy line engines for your next one. My first engine was an LGB/Aster Frank S 0-6-0. Sold off a bunch of my postwar Lionel to pay for it. The Ruby wasn't around back then. Mike


 i would like to add a goodal valve, and hopefully a tender with a water supply.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

these show some changes i want to do. i drew the first picture. it is of a standard ruby. on the second picture, i found a set of blueprints from a baldwin plantation engine. i copied and pasted the bell, pilot, headlight and tender onto my ruby drawing


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Accucraft made a tender like that for Ruby at one time, I have been unable to find one for myself either. Being coal fired, I am hoping to get the factory tender as its made out of brass like the engine. Mike


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a picture of my old Ruby with a wood cab, and sans side tanks...


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

this may be a stupid question, but has anyone ever tried to make a wood fired loco? i have only seen butane, alchohol,and coal.


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## MGates (Mar 16, 2016)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> this may be a stupid question, but has anyone ever tried to make a wood fired loco? i have only seen butane, alchohol,and coal.


I think it has been done before, but the wood chips are so small they don't hold fire for very long and require fairly constant additions and monitoring. I think a few folks have mentioned just trying it out on their coal fired locos. One thing to be aware of if you are thinking of wood-firing is that wood, in contrast to anthracite, is a dirty burner. Lots of soot and creosote. This will require more frequent (after every run at the end of the day) cleaning of your flues, smoke box, pretty much everything the soot touches.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

what will happen if the engine runs out of steam oild mid-run?


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## MGates (Mar 16, 2016)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> what will happen if the engine runs out of steam oild mid-run?


Once the oiler has been emptied and no more lubrication is going into the cylinders this will eventually cause wear on the pistons, piston rings, valves, and rods (all the moving parts in the cylinder of course). If you plan to run the loco for a good portion of the day, its a good idea to check the oil reservoir every 30mins or so. I've seen a lot of folks use a small blunt-tipped syringe to suck out all the water in the reservoir and then you can top it off with more oil. You can get blunt-tipped syringes on Amazon.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

how long is the run time?


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

usualy 15-20 min when the engine is getting broken in. I think some guys managed to stretch it to about 30 min once the engine was run in and with the gas turned down to where one could barely hear it was on. With the water top of valve and some experience, you can keep her in steam most of the day, or till your tired of running the engine. I would invest in a steam pressure gauge as soon as you can, its a nice way to see how well the engine is performing. Any Accucraft dealer should be able to get you the gauge and needed piping. Since you live in Eastern PA, check out "Cabin Fever" next year. I think its in Feburary and they have layouts set up indoors to run engines like yours. Excellent event to see other engines and gain experience. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i assume this will happen if she runs out of water!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

here is a good idea for the tender-


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

one more question- when using a goodall valve, how do you know how much water to put in without overfilling?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Goodall and overfilling... if you have a pressure gauge (and no sight glass) then when the pressure drop you kind of know that the boiler is filling (unless fire is out). Otherwise know how much water per pump stroke then use a guide of how much is needed to fill then reduce by 1/2-1/3 of volume with the goodall bottle refill.

Here is a modified Ruby with tender arrangement

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/charles/RubyModLeftSide.JPG


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

is there any easy way to attach a bachmann coupler to ruby?


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Ruby has a spot for link and pin couplers. I have a Kaydee and a Bachmann coupler that I shortened the shank to almost up to the knuckle, then I drill a hole for the pin to go thru. Then I can remove the knuckle coupler when I pull my link and pin rollling stock. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i have heard of these these chuffers known as Bark Boxes. in my opinion, they sound better than a summerlands chuffer. do they fit in a ruby, and does anyone know where i can find one?


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

long long ago, I had a Mamod steam tractor, with an alcohol burner tray.

Being a teenager, and a rail nut, and clueless, I decided to be creative....LOL.

I fired it using toothpicks, like a real loco. what happened was lots of brown tar and filth, and a rather larger and very much hotter than normal fire -yes it will clean off with denatured alcohol (usually) but, its not a long lasting fuel source, dirty as mentioned, and simply , sounds cooler than it is in reality, imho. And, btw, I raised so much steam pressure that I blew the piston right out of the cylinder.....

Aargh, she was a sight before she went belly up......never saw that engine run so fast.

You of course, wouldn't have these issues I am sure.

What happens if it boils dry? Well depending to what extent of time and temperature, curling and puckering paint, damaged rubber valve seats and seals, and, fatigued or worse (cracks) in/on the metal, and or solder joints melting, should it get really hot. This doesn't happen instantly, but, can get there rather quickly. 

So when you lose steam, ie it slows down or no longer can make a grade it otherwise can, shut off the gas immediately.

I don't know if ruby's water capacity exceeds her fuel tank. My LGB aster 0-6-0 has more fuel than water-and I don't have a goodall valve (because I don't know where to get one I can simply screw into the filler dome).

My roundhouse sandy river, old version, has less fuel than water, so it cannot boil dry. It does have a tender water pump , which is manual, but I don't use it, because refueling requires that its fuel tank, which is in the cab and gets a bit hot, cool before it will accept more gas.

Both have water sight glasses. Be aware too, that these sight glasses, occasionally, read wrong, ie the water may read higher than it actually is, due to grade, or some phenomena of the water sticking to , or rather cradling up against the glass rather than dropping. 

So, I might suggest, run 15 minutes, if those in the know say this is a safe time.

Let 'er cool and eyeball the water level, steam oil, condensate. Get a physical first hand feel. Keep it up until you get to know the loco. Things change btw with colder weather, and you burn more fuel , obviously. Routinely check and tighten gently the screws too. These can loosen with running.

These little things were, at least for me, a bit of a PITA until you get the hang of them, and know what to expect. Lots of prep, sometimes fussy to light, or keep lighted, hot /burnt fingers, short run, repeat process. Cotton gloves can be helpful I understand, but I have never used them. My frank s has plastic knobs, the sandy river is R/C.

BTW, keep your face a good distance from the loco when lighting. 
it might be tempting to see or hear if there is a blue stack flame (often invisible in bright sun) -so one can get close.......I have.

With the burner open, and a slow "catch' to light, the butane can pool, ie float down into the track area under the loco, and not only will the loco light, but so will this cloud. Exciting to say the least, and nothing to be worried about, simply aware of in very still conditions, or with a tough time lighting.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks, and do you know if i can add fuel while the gas is turned on?


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Adding fuel ( gas ) to a locomotive with the burner already lit is a definite NO ! Gas can pool under the engine and light up with a fire ball around the engine, burning gas and you too . 

Suggest you find a fellow steamer nearby to get some operation pointers. The club I belong to only lets new steamers run solo after running 6 times with a Senior Steam Operator. 

Charles M SA# 74


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

This will help you with your journey into live steam until you can get together with other live steamers. 

http://www.steamup.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=207

Scott


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

okay. i think i got this- so first i remove water from the lubricator and fill with steam oil. second, i fill boiler with distilled water and remove 20-30 ml of water. 3rd, i use butane to fill fuel tank, and when a large amount of gas comes out, it is full. fourth, i open the smokebox door and turn on the gass(not the whole way) and light. then adjust flame so it burns in boiler and NOT the smoke box, and the close smokebox door. fifth, oil all moving external parts while waiting for steam to build. is this correct?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

T&W;

It is better to oil those spots that can only be done with the locomotive on its back BEFORE adding water, fuel, or lighting off. Then proceed as you wrote.

Cheers,
David Meashey


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Steve in denver, try giving Jim Sanders of Weebee loco works a shout on a goodall valve for the Frank S. Once he gets his shop set up, he might be able to make one. He is also a good source for better safety valves for Ruby and other bits. Mike


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

Back before YouTube I learned via a video tape I purchased. Here's a video I found that will take you through the paces of your first steaming: 



 
Scott


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

You tube is how I learned the ins and outs of small scale coal firing. I have student fired on NKP 587 down at a local museum years ago when it was operational, so I did have some idea of the mechanics of coal firing in a larger scale! Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

in comparison to a bachmann big hauler 4-6-0 , how much power does she have?


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Depends on the load, 3-5 cars usualy depending on the weight of the cars. My coal burner pulls better as its boiler is heavier than the gas fired set up. There are no traction tires and she will leave the rails oily, so you will have to clean your track before you run any track powered trains. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

so if i fill her tanks with lead/steel weights, and get her to weigh, lets say 15lbs, she could pull more cars than if she just weighed 6 lbs, correct?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I have measured the pulling power of a number of my electric locomotives and the pulling power averages about 1/3 the weight of the engine. You have to be careful that the added weight won't damage the engine in the long run. I don't know about live steamers, but added weight can damage the gears in a locomotive powered by electrons.

Chuck


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Added weight will translate into both added pulling power (to an extent) a AND added wear, both in the wheel bearings and drive / side rod bushings. I would add wheel weights into random places on the loco until I found what the minimum required added weight to pull the average (or intended) consist. Then, find a permanent location (side tanks?) to melt and crudely cast the wheel weight into a proper shape(s).

If you just add as much as possible, you might be adding unnecessary wear and tear on your loco and I imagine there is a point of diminishing return when the extra weight on the loco requires more effort on the loco's part just to move itself.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

im building a tender for her


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

just to let you all know, i currently do not have the ruby as i said before as i am waiting on jason to get it, so meanwhile, i am working on stuff such as the tender. here are some more pics.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Bill created a thread some while ago - "Hot Rod Ruby," I think he called it. One of his modifications was adding weight. Along with a new, larger boiler, and I think bigger cylinders.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i tried to find the thread, but i could not find it. and another quick question. if the loco is steaming up, and the safety valve is stuck and doesnt "pop off" what will happen? will the boiler explode? will it crack? damaged regulator valve? that is my only major worry, is if it somehow gets stuck.


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## MGates (Mar 16, 2016)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> i tried to find the thread, but i could not find it. and another quick question. if the loco is steaming up, and the safety valve is stuck and doesnt "pop off" what will happen? will the boiler explode? will it crack? damaged regulator valve? that is my only major worry, is if it somehow gets stuck.


Most safety valves have a little stem on them at the top. You use needle-nose pliers or tweezers to pull this up and steam comes out. I'm pretty sure the Ruby has a pressure gauge or it is possible to add one on. I have seen pictures of Ruby locos with gauges on them. If you have a pressure gauge and know your working pressure you can keep an eye on the gauge and notice if the valve does not pop at the right PSI or BAR rating. Shut the flame off and relieve the pressure by pulling the safety valve stem up and/or by opening the blower. Watch out if you pull the safety valve open manually, the steam shoots out fast and high, even though it's a little opening... don't want steam in your face!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

now say nobody is around to pull the pin., what would happen? (dont worry, i plan to watch ruby at all times)


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

you should always "tweak" the safety with a pair of needle nose plyers or other tool as the engine raises steam the first time that day, this makes sure it hasnt stuck shut with built up from deposits in the water. Make sure you use Distilled water only, not rainwater, not deionized water ect. Just Distilled water from the store. Anyways, if you "tweak" the safety for a second or two, it should be fine for the day. usualy a seam in the boiler or on a steam line will fail causing a loss of steam pressure. These small boilers do not have enough built up energy inside to explode like a 1:1 scale locomotive can. These boilers have a huge safety factor built in. Watch plenty of youtube steam up videos, I know there are plenty of the Ruby and many others. Mike


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> now say nobody is around to pull the pin., what would happen? (dont worry, i plan to watch ruby at all times)


To satisfy your curiosity, take a quick read thru this document: http://sgcox.site.net.au/ritg/boiler-tests.pdf

The upshot of this is that even though the boilers failed anywhere from 700 PSI to 1600 PSI *NONE* of them burst catastrophically. The flues collapsed, minor sections of the boiler stretched and cracked near a joint or bushing.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

a ruby is bigger than a bachmann 0-4-0 porter, correct? and could somebody please sit their ruby on a flat surface (not on track) and tell me the height of her link and pin pocket?


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i still need a ton of stuff from ozark, but here is the tender so far. it has currently only cost me $10.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> a ruby is bigger than a bachmann 0-4-0 porter, correct?


No, its smaller..

Bachmann has two different Large scale 0-4-0 Porters, one with a square tank and one with a round tank:

http://www.justgardenrailways.co.uk...13/12/dress-your-dolls-291192910461204100.jpg

http://www.glendalejunction.com/Gifs/B82098.jpg

Ruby is smaller than both of them..
Scot


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Mike Toney said:


> ........Make sure you use Distilled water only, not rainwater, not deionized water ect. Just Distilled water from the store.......


I remember reading some time ago about some corrosion tests that were carried out with various waters. The conclusion seemed to be to use distilled water with 5% tap water added to optimise the ph number and to get the ion balance as near right as possible.

Anyway - that's what I've been using for a couple of years now with no apparent problem. Perhaps someone would care to comment further?


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

> The conclusion seemed to be to use distilled water with 5% tap water added to optimise the ph number and to get the ion balance as near right as possible.


 Not all tap waters are the same across the country, or even in the same town. I grew up with a water softener at one house and when we moved across town we didn't need one. So the study isn't valid for general consumption. 

The answer is and always will be - "Distilled water".

Scott


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i think when i get he i will modify her to look more like a 7/8ths scale engine.


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

scottemcdonald said:


> Not all tap waters are the same across the country, or even in the same town. I grew up with a water softener at one house and when we moved across town we didn't need one. So the study isn't valid for general consumption.


 

Well sure, all tap waters aren't the same, however I think you may be forgetting that we are only talking about a 5% concentration here - so even if the variation in the make up of the tap water was 50% - that would only equate to a variation of 2.5% in the make up of the mixture. Hardly significant in the practical application we're discussing here.



> The answer is and always will be - "Distilled water".


Again - I'm afraid I must disagree. I managed to find the original article that I refered to in my post #78 - but it's rather long - so I've quoted the link below.

However - these I think are the two most significant passages ....

"Marklin advises hobbyists to use distilled water with 5% tap water, which is also very good advice in my view. The splash of tap water will add enough minerals to quench the *distilled water’s corrosivity*, yet the resulting mixture will still be very soft water and won’t give problems with scale buildup. Whoever it was at Marklin who said that, they knew their stuff about water."

and ....

"For a long time I believed that distilled water was ok, but after seeing other experiments - I don’t think so. I suspect that *distilled water is also too pure to be used in our boilers*. Marklin also seem to think the same, given that they recommend adding some tap water to it. Anyway, most “distilled water” these days is actually made by deionisation, not real distillation, so the deionised water results probably approximate the results you’d see with a bottle of “distilled water” bought from a shop."


See the original article here .......


http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ft...48-0-asc-0.php __________________


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Mike Toney said:


> ................ Make sure you use Distilled water only, not rainwater, not deionized water ect. Just Distilled water from the store. .............


See post #81 above ....


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

One should point out that these tests were done on brass, and not a high grade type at that from the looks of it. Brass contains a higher amount of zinc compared to copper, for example alloy 360 brass is about 35% zinc in formulation while 110 copper is nearly 99% pure copper. I would doubt the tests would have resulted in anything statistically significant on copper test strips, unless they were poor grade copper. 

The addition of tap water to brass boilers certainly is good to prevent dezincification and embrittlement of the brass alloy, but in copper boilers it will be of no benefit, except to the brass fittings that are constantly submerged in boiler water. Good boilers should have bronze fittings for all steam and water service on the boiler, but this is not always optimal for a variety of reasons. 

Bottom line is, copper boilers do not suffer from potential dezincification like the brass boilers found on Marklin, Mamod, Jensen, Wilesco, Saito and Regner products can by using proper steam distilled water. 

_Deionized_ water is the key bad boy here, Distilled water is mostly removed of impurities (through distillation), but never completely (unless they are distilling it alongside Johnnie Walker), as is evident by calcium deposits forming on a sight glass after storing water for a length of time in the boiler.

I would suggest any further discussion be made in a new topic as this has strayed far from the topic of what to do with a ruby as your first live steam engine.


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

I would agree that due to the size and complexity of the water topic it deserves a thread of its own - however I'm sure you're aware that - as with anything that has been extensively discussed before - there is the ever present risk of 're-inventing the wheel'

So in conclusion - I think there are three key points to note here ...

- Many people are happily using so called 'distilled water' when in fact they are being sold a product that is more akin to 'deionized' water.

- Even when they *are* using pure distilled water - the fond belief that it is somehow completely benign and harmless - is just simply wrong.

- For the sake of peace of mind if nothing else, why would you *not* add a dash of tap water, when it has been pretty conclusively shown that it has a beneficial effect? 

It even has the added bonus of reducing your operating costs ....


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

John 842 said:


> It even has the added bonus of reducing your operating costs ....


Sorry John, but that is one "benefit" that no one can legitimately use! 
In the US, distilled water costs $1 per gallon at the grocery store. I use 50 cents worth of water _per year_ in my live steam hobby..Really active live steamers might use up to $2 worth of water _per year_. When a typical live steam locomotive costs $1,000, reducing your water costs from $2 per year to $1.95 per year, by adding a splash of tap water, really cant be taken seriously as a topic of conversation!  




John 842 said:


> - Even when they *are* using pure distilled water - the fond belief that it is somehow completely benign and harmless - is just simply wrong.


hmmm..but..is it? is it really wrong? I dont believe it is wrong..and 99% of the live steam hobby, in my experience, backs that up..



John 842 said:


> - For the sake of peace of mind if nothing else, why would you *not* add a dash of tap water, when it has been pretty conclusively shown that it has a beneficial effect?


Because im not convinced it *has* actually been conclusively shown that it has a beneficial effect..I believe its a myth..and why do I believe its a myth? because:

I have been involved in live steam for 15 years now, and im a member of a live steam club, and I maintain the club's webpage, and the club was founded by the creator of "Steam in the Garden" magazine, Ron Brown:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/upstatesteamers/

(Ron passed away a few years back, but his wife Marie still hosts a large annual steamup, and is still involved with the magazine.)

I have attended 3 to 5 steamups a year for the past 15 years, some of them quite large, and hosted by the founders of Steam in the Garden magazine..not once, ever, literally never, have I heard the topic of adding some tap water to distilled water ever come up at a steamup.

And not once, ever, literally never, have I ever observed anyone adding some tap water to their distilled water..

my conclusion? no one does it, because there is no reason to do it! 

Is it helpful to add some tap water? As started above, I dont think so..if it was a good thing to do, people would be doing it..I believe its a myth, and so does every other live steamer I have ever met, because no one does it.

Is it harmful to add some tap water? probably not..but it does add a small amount of mineral hardness. Some say "yes, that's the point, you want that."..I would say "no, I dont want that, because I believe it has no benefit and could possibly create mineral buildup over time, which is a negative and something we dont want."

In reality, its probably harmless to do it..but in my experience, there is also absolutely no reason to do it. "Steam Distilled" water from the grocery is the absolute standard in the USA..used straight from the jug. I have never seen, or even heard about, anyone using anything else..

So sorry John, but I believe you are on the "myth" side of this one.. 

Scot


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Scottychaos said:


> ............. When a typical live steam locomotive costs $1,000, reducing your water costs from $2 per year to $1.95 per year, by adding a splash of tap water, really cant be taken seriously as a topic of conversation!


Well of course it isn't! - hence the smilie face ....  

I think we've hijacked T&WRR's thread for too long now. The information is all out there for those of us who want to find it - then it's up to us each individually to decide what we choose to believe - and then act accordingly.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

John 842 said:


> I would agree that due to the size and complexity of the water topic it deserves a thread of its own - however I'm sure you're aware that - as with anything that has been extensively discussed before - there is the ever present risk of 're-inventing the wheel'
> 
> So in conclusion - I think there are three key points to note here ...
> 
> ...


I would add again, that this should be observed for steam boilers constructed out of *BRASS*, which are the minority, see above post for the major manufacturers using this material. The experiment was conducted on *BRASS* strips, not *COPPER*. This is irrelevant for most all gauge one live steam manufacturers

Type 110 COPPER seems to be about the industry standard for boiler construction and is 99% copper with NO Zinc, so therefore nothing for the (probably not truly) ion deprived water to leach out.

-Adding tap water (of which the chemical makeup changes on a fairly daily basis at most treatment plants) and contains chlorine, chloramines and nitrates among other things that can precipitate on boiler surfaces, however minor the amount, will likely make no difference in a COPPER boiler besides causing unnecessary scale buildup over time. 

-Why would you not? Why *would *you on a boiler that is of far superior material construction? 

I would like to see that experiment run again, with tighter controls and using type 110 copper test strips that have been silver brazed (not soft soldered with acid core solder!) and properly cleaned in a pickle bath, to see if any of this has merit on a totally different boiler metal to the original tests.

And now...for something completely different.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

this is too confusing for my mind. so what should i do? first off, is rubys boiler brass, or is it copper, should i use tap water? if so how much? i do agree that this has gotten a little off topic. by the way, does anyone have the height of her L&P pocket?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> this is too confusing for my mind. so what should i do?


The water thing is actually quite simple..
your thread has just wandered a bit!  but that's ok..
people like to discuss the finer points of this hobby..nothing wrong with that.



> first off, is rubys boiler brass, or is it copper,


copper.



> should i use tap water?


No.



> if so how much?


None..just use straight distilled.



> i do agree that this has gotten a little off topic. by the way, does anyone have the height of her L&P pocket?


I have a Ruby, but her beams I have been modified, so I dont have that measurement..sorry.

Scot


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

glad thats cleared up. i have a very basic understanding of all the science related to running our engines. all i know is water+fire=steam, and steam+cylinders=energy,and energy+drive rods & wheels=motion


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

just finalized the order today. it should be here soon.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

does anyone know where i can get some 1:20.3 coal, and i had a question to ask larry herget. how should i contact him?


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

The Train Department sells coal for Gauge One and other similar models.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

oops. i should have specified, i dont need coal to burn, just to fill my tender. ruby should be shipped out tomorrow


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

A lot of people use charcoal for aquarium filters as a coal substitute.

Chuck


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Plain black aquarium gravel is better, and cleaner. Just don't try to burn it.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks guys. any more critical advice i should follow before steaming her up for the first time?


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

She's in the mail! should come on thursday. will share a video here.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

my last question before the first steamup is this-how high should the lubricator be filled? about every video i watch, they fill it to a different height!


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Tomahawk & Western, fill it almost to the top, leave a bit of space at the top, but in practice this does not matter, hot water and steam will find its way ... Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Thanks, and happy 100th post in this thread!


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> my last question before the first steamup is this-how high should the lubricator be filled? about every video i watch, they fill it to a different height!


Many people get a large syringe with a flexible rubber tube, for water, and a smaller one for steam oil:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HUzy1KNDZPA/UryGZqwebaI/AAAAAAAACIc/UPPB6no_Q6o/s1600/suckers.jpg

For scale, the larger one, (the plastic body itself, not including the tubing) is about 6" long, and the smaller one 2" or 3" long..exact size isnt important. 

Fill the boiler to the top with distilled water, until it overflows, then pull back out 30ml.
the excess can be squirted back into the jug.
(the 30 ml number comes directly from Accucraft)

Scot


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

To answer your question about how high to fill the lubricator, best suggestion is to fill to the point that oil level is just below the tiny hole that emits steam into the lubricator....If memory serves correctly, on the Ruby there is a steam tube that passes through the lubricator body and it has a tiny hole in the side....by filling with oil to just below this level you will immediately have steam in the inside of the displacement lubricator that can condense, fall to the bottom of the lubricator interior, and then "displace" the steam oil on top into the steam line....that is how these type lubricators function.

If you overfill there is not generally a huge problem, just that there will be more (and messy) steam oil that enters the steam line in the beginning, adding to the often seen problem of too much steam oil being exhausting at start up.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks. apparently the post office messed up and she hasnt even been shipped yet, or else the tracking is all messed up


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Do not overfill the lubricator...keep head space for steam to enter. If too much is in the container then suck out the excess. You do not need to have excess out the stack and oiling the track rails.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

ahh.. so thats why in videos of steaming up a ruby lots of oil comes out the stack! 
i checked the tracking again. now its in order, and will reach me tomorrow. i cant wait!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Wish you the best on your first fire up. Will be watching for your video. Later RJD


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thank you. i had a bad day with the railroad today. i was told to use denatured Alchohol by many people at the york TCA meet... yeah right. oxided my track really badly, and it left these "spots" on the railheads. the TWRR water tank was destroyed today also. for some reason, it felt like just "falling apart" so that was not good


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Tomahawk & Western, thank you! hitting post #100 is always fun;-)! You may be able to restore the shine on the ties with an organic solvent. But try it first on the underside... Perhaps you do need to fill your lubricator to the top after all;-)..., a coating of oil will protect your track and make it look like every good live steamer's track, including 1:1. Hmm, when you are 13, sometimes things tend to just fall apart, perhaps;-)))? Do not worry, you will put it back together on a better day! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Nathan;

Stuff does tend to fall apart at times. I was at a steam up in Rocky Mount, VA today. It is only about 19 miles from my home. I had just raised steam in my Dora locomotive and was starting to exit the steaming tracks, when I heard a light "thunk!" and the locomotive stopped. I thought perhaps a flange had jammed in the switch frog, but another steamer said "Something has come off your locomotive." Sure enough, the counterweight and drive rod had fallen off the rear axle on the engineer's side.

I shut off the fuel valve, and we had to wait for things to cool down. Fortunately, there were plenty of seasoned live steamers there to help me (I only have about two year's experience with #1 gauge live steamers). We got the rod/counterweight assembly back in place, removed the set screw, put Red Loctite on it, and tightened it back down. We did the same for the other three set screws "just in case." I may try the locomotive again tomorrow, to make sure everything is working as it should.

Having more experienced folks around does help when mishaps occur, but MLS is the next best thing.

Cheers,
David Meashey


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

PS for the uninitiated, 'ties' are 'sleepers' in American;-), Zubi


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks guys. shes out for dilivery according to usps tracking  first steamup will probably be within 2 hours, as our mail usually gets here between 1:00 and 3:00 thank you to all who helped me, i will post videos and pictures tomorrow


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*First ruby steamup*

Nate,Take your time. I would suggest you make yourself a little checklist to follow.
Step by step in getting Ruby ready to steam.
Lubricator
Lub bearings etc.
Good luck and smooth "STEAMIN"


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

Make sure you give 'er something to pull, it'll help you learn the throttle without sending the engine flying off the first curve.

Have a set of work gloves handy in case she does tip - it'll be hot.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

artgibson said:


> Nate,Take your time. I would suggest you make yourself a little checklist to follow.
> Step by step in getting Ruby ready to steam.
> Lubricator
> Lub bearings etc.
> Good luck and smooth "STEAMIN"


 thanks art. that is what i did while steaming her up. i am trying to edit the videos, then i will post them here.( i cant figure out the youtube video editor)


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=BQ8tAkrP4KY


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*ruby first run*

Nate
Congratulations on your first run of the Ruby. Fine job and I know what it is like to try to run steam and do video and you also did a fine job of video.
I know you will be a happy "STEAMER" and wish you all the long term steaming experience.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks art. had a little problem on the mainline outside, so i set up a little loop of track to run her on. she cant run on my mainline without R/C because the throttle has to be wide open to make it up the 3% grades( i regraded it to make it a little easier than 5%,) and she has to have her johnson bar in reverse and have the throttle open 50% to keep from derailing on the 5' dia. curves at the botton(the curve is on a 7"embankment, so if she would fly off, she would roll a few tmes)
only had 3 mishaps so far. i accidentally opened the throttle the whole way and she flew off the loop inside. (i turned off the gas quickly). the secont one was that i wanted to empty out the boiler due to the fact that there was many contaminants in it when i reveived it(will pm you about what happened) and when i tured it upside down, i forgot to take the steam dome of, and it fell on the floor(the steam dome, not the engine)( luckily, it only got a barely noticable chip in the paint on the steam dome) the third one was the only one that i got hurt. i left her go about 3 minutes after the gas supply ran out, and i forgot to open the throttle to avoid pressure when i open the water filler. boiling water spewed out all over my leg, and boy did that hurt!) in all i think i steamed her up 38 times so far. i used about 1 3/4 cans of butane, and my gallon of distilled water is half full(not half empty!) but i think most of it ended up on my work table rather than in the boiler) she has been running really well, and over all i must say i am extremely happy with her.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*Ruby*



Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> thanks art. had a little problem on the mainline outside, so i set up a little loop of track to run her on. she cant run on my mainline without R/C because the throttle has to be wide open to make it up the 3% grades( i regraded it to make it a little easier than 5%,) and she has to have her johnson bar in reverse and have the throttle open 50% to keep from derailing on the 5' dia. curves at the botton(the curve is on a 7"embankment, so if she would fly off, she would roll a few tmes)
> only had 3 mishaps so far. i accidentally opened the throttle the whole way and she flew off the loop inside. (i turned off the gas quickly). the secont one was that i wanted to empty out the boiler due to the fact that there was many contaminants in it when i reveived it(will pm you about what happened) and when i tured it upside down, i forgot to take the steam dome of, and it fell on the floor(the steam dome, not the engine)( luckily, it only got a barely noticable chip in the paint on the steam dome) the third one was the only one that i got hurt. i left her go about 3 minutes after the gas supply ran out, and i forgot to open the throttle to avoid pressure when i open the water filler. boiling water spewed out all over my leg, and boy did that hurt!) in all i think i steamed her up 38 times so far. i used about 1 3/4 cans of butane, and my gallon of distilled water is half full(not half empty!) but i think most of it ended up on my work table rather than in the boiler) she has been running really well, and over all i must say i am extremely happy with her.


 yOU HAVE TO BE REAL CAREFUL ABOUT THE STEAM. I ONCE HAD MY s-2 GET AWAY FROM ME AND WHEN I GOT TO IT AND HAD MY HANDS ON HER, I TRIPPED OVER A TRACK SUPPORT AND FELL TO THE GROUND ,HOLDING AN ALCOHOL FIRED ENFGINE with no gloves on my hands.
Also had a pop up cvalve get away from me.
Boy you are getting some steaming in are't you.
Take care


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate
Probably the best way to start and understand your locomotive is to use roller and fire up to learn the in's and out's of its function. If no roller put the front and rear beams on blocks.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Charles said:


> Nate
> Probably the best way to start and understand your locomotive is to use roller and fire up to learn the in's and out's of its function. If no roller put the front and rear beams on blocks.


 charles, that it how i steamed her the first 15 or so times. one thing i noticed different about my ruby is that unlike others i have seen, she has no little tag riveted to the boilers right side in the cab and on the gas tank. her exhaust is different also, as it has no crimped end with holes on the sides. this shows a ruby from the same class(3/8 cylinders) with these. 







 art, how bad did you get burned ?that sure must have not felt good. and was your s-2 damaged badly?


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> charles, that it how i steamed her the first 15 or so times. one thing i noticed different about my ruby is that unlike others i have seen, she has no little tag riveted to the boilers right side in the cab and on the gas tank. her exhaust is different also, as it has no crimped end with holes on the sides. this shows a ruby from the same class(3/8 cylinders) with these. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayQXS7QZ3Is
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frVti-vDPiM
> art, how bad did you get burned ?that sure must have not felt good. and was your s-2 damaged badly?


Nate
I wasn't burned at all. Just lucky I guess. No one took pictures because they were concerned that I might have been burned. I do not knoew how I wasn't burned because the engine was hot. No damage to S-2 that I noticed. I am pretty rough on my stuff and some may think I am crazy. When the old engines were running in the backcountry, I am sure they needed a little TLC" sometimes.
As someone earlier in the thred suggested, put some weight behind her to help slow her down on your larger track
Keep working her, sounds like you are having fun.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

art, i sure am having fun. i just stopped running her about a half hour ago, because i am all out of butane.
take care, Nate H.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

actually, im suprised the first steamup didnt end up this way


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like you're having fun. So glad that the Ruby is one of the good runners. As many know the older ones were a gamble.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

jason thanks. like i said, i hope to order some more things, such as a summerlands chuffer(when i received her the stack was very loose, so when i tightened it i accidentally bent the original chuff pipe, and when i tried to staighten it out, it cracked a little near the bottom (i actually notice an improvement with the exhaust in the amount of oil coming out the stack. i must add that the ruby did have a few unmentioned problems. i dont think she was new though, as there was wear on the wheels from a rail head, and her lubricator was filled with this green sticky sludge, and her safety valve was stuck shut with buildup of something.(good thing i checked! had to clean the valve really well to get it to open. overall, it looks like she may have only been run very few times, and was taken care of. thanks, nathan H


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> jason thanks. like i said, i hope to order some more things, such as a summerlands chuffer(when i received her the stack was very loose, so when i tightened it i accidentally bent the original chuff pipe, and when i tried to staighten it out, it cracked a little near the bottom (i actually notice an improvement with the exhaust in the amount of oil coming out the stack. i must add that the ruby did have a few unmentioned problems. she *wasnt new* as you said she was, as there was wear on the wheels from a rail head, and her lubricator was filled with this green sticky sludge, and her safety valve was stuck shut with buildup of something.(good thing i checked! had to clean the valve really well to get it to open. overall, it looks like she may have only been run very few times, and was taken care of. thanks, nathan H


Interesting as when I opened it, it was still factory packed in the paper and ribbon. The guy that owned it bought new and never ran it so It could of been run at the factory or test run. He has passed away though some time ago now so cant confirm. Most of his locos were unrun and new in the box. Some from the mid 80s. 

From the video though it runs flawless, compared to mine many years ago when I got did not run at all out of the box. Many didn't!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

jason, that is what i was thinking. dont worry,i know you thought it was new, and if anything, it helped because from what ive gathered, live steamers run better after being "broken in". either way, she runs great.
thanks, nathan H.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*ruby*

Nate
As many times as you indicated you ran the Ruby, did you change the lube oil each time and what kind of lube did you use? You ran the Ruby probably more times than most of them have been run in a lifetime.
Take a day off and give the little girl a rest.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

art, every 2 runs i change the steam oil and each time i re-lubricate all the moving parts. i use the lube oil jason sent me,but when it runs out, i plan on using 3-in-1 oil. also, about every 5 runs, i cleam the exterior of her cab, somkebox, smokebox door, boiler, water tanks, and wheels. she sure is a gem to run(pun intended!). on my line outside, the cars actually hurt. for example, one time when my train (electric) was neaaring the top of the hill, the coupler between the tender and first car let loos. the cars rolled down th hill and because of the sateep grade, they flew of the curve at the botom and rolled down the embankment. so i think cars would only help to accelerate her down the hill.  thanks, nate


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i did a little "science experiment" the other day. i found that her boiler holds 120 ml of water, and ther normal boiler amount is 90 ml (30 ml removed for steam) i found that on average she uses 40 ml per run, so she has enough water for 2 runs in her boiler(i top it of every run to be safe) i also found that her gas tank(which is smaller than the 1/2 cylinder ruby) lasts usually about 12 minuted with the gass turned high without burning in the smokebox, and 15 minutes if it is kept just high enough to produce a steady flame. i hope to eventually add a goodal valve, and replace the original gas tank with a large one like this, and put it in the tender


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*Lube oil*

Nate you are talking about 3-1 oil for lubing outside moving parts and not internal lub are you not.
Do not use 3-1 oil as internal lubricant.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

art, i plan on using it for external oiling, and i use steam oil in the lubricator. -nate


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

art, i last steamed her up yesterday morning. will probably run her tomorrow morning.i am trying to talk to jason about getting a gas tank made for the tender. it should hold over 6 times the amount of the current tank, so she probably could run, if my calculations are correct, 1 hour and 36 minutes on a a full tank (i would also need a goodal to replenish water while she is under steam) plus an R/C system eventaully (im straight outta money) - Nate H


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> art, i last steamed her up yesterday morning. will probably run her tomorrow morning.i am trying to talk to jason about getting a gas tank made for the tender. it should hold over 6 times the amount of the current tank, so she probably could run, if my calculations are correct, 1 hour and 36 minutes on a a full tank (i would also need a goodal to replenish water while she is under steam) plus an R/C system eventaully (im straight outta money) - Nate H


 Nate, Where is the money coming from? I think you are making a mistake in enlarging the fuel tank. They made it that sizwe for a reason. Run out of fuel before you run out of water. You might want to save some money for later if you decide to get a larger steam engine. You do what you want but, if it were me ,enjoy what you have and add an r/c ,that are available for the Ruby. I have run my larger engines for a long time but they are built for that kind of steaming.
Nuff said


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

most of it came from this spring, when mom broke her ankle. i had to cook, do wash, take the dog out, vacuum, dust, take out trash..ect, etc, and the neighbor had very bad back trouble..so i had to mulch weed, mow...and repaired windows for my grandmas barn - oh well, i hope ruby can eventually take over the standard F&P runs. my problem with the fuel tank is, by the time i got her steamed up, the fire hot, and the cylinders drained, she runs about 5 minutes. i would even settle for one of the tanks the newer rubys have, which are larger. thanks, nate h.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

and how am i suddenly a senior member ....tis confusion!


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Looks like it must be when you hit 100 posts ....


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Nathan, 

I sent you Greenvelvet steam oil along with a pin and journal oil. The small external lube bottle is the best oil for the locos. Do not use 3-1 you will find that the oil slings all over and is a mess. Also runs all over the wheels and rail then too. One drop per joint per steam session usually. I reoil usually hourly if I run extended times. 

Ill look at the fuel tank shortly, but Id not out a huge tank on the Ruby. FYI that Regner tank is almost 150.00. 

Also the fuel tank on this Ruby is the same size as the new ones. No different other than the fact they went from a square tank to a smaller dia round tank. Runtime is about 15-18mins. You are prob running to high a burner level. You mentioned its as high as you can get it without burning the door but you want the opposite, as low as you can get it and maintain the needed steam.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Tomahawk & Western,
I would advice against rebuilding your loco and equipping it with a larger tank in the tender. The reason the tank holds only enough gas to boil half the boiler of water is that you do not run the boiler dry. Also, having the tank in the cab helps to keep the gas pressure when the loco is getting warm. You will run into all sorts of problems (and costs) if you embark on the project. One way to make the runs longer is to fill the boiler with preheated water. You can also refill the gas tank while running - just remember to extinguis the fire (although when the gas tank is hot refilling is not possible, you may need to cool it down by opening the gas valve while filling and letting some gas pass through the system) Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

if i add a goodal valve and add about 40 ml every 15 minutes, could i use a larger tank? i want ruby to take over the mainline run which was previously done by a bachmann 4-6-0 but i must say you all have more knowledge in this area than me. thanks, nathan H


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I also agree with not enlarging the fuel tank, espicaly since the engine lacks a water level gauge. I would instead, calculate where on the railway you need to put in stations to stop at, just like the real engines would. Then, just like the real engineer and fireman, can oil around, top up water and fuel in a timely manner and continue the run. This is how I have to run my coal fired Ruby. She needs constant feeding, coal, water, oil in the lubricator on long runs. I am searching high and low for the tender that Accucraft made for the Ruby. No luck so far. Glad to see your having fun! Mike


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

Don't install a larger fuel tank without adding an axle pump, a tender full of water, and a hand-pump in the tender. I don't know if you can get a sight-glass for a Ruby, but I would invest in that before I modified it for extended running. You need to be able to check the water level at any point if you're going to override the safety of a small gas tank.

Also, if they have one, I would consider getting a pressure gauge for Ruby. You may find that you can get more than 20 min out of her if you decrease the boiler pressure - (don't always run with the pop-off valve blowing) - which will also decrease your butane use. I can get 30 min easy out of my Roundhouse Sammie running at ~35psi - they're fairly similar sized locos. You don't have to run at max boiler pressure.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Finding that balance of steam needed and amount of fuel burned is a learned item and different from one engine to the next. Being able to get the train over the road with the minimum of fuel burned and not having the safety valve blowing off all the time is the sign of an experienced crew. Some railroads, such as the N&W would penalize crews for to much smoke out of the stack(over firing). Running without the safeties lifted and with a clean stack was something to take pride in in the glory days of steam. Many times engines were assigned to the crew, so they would know the exact operating style that engine needed and could get the most out of during a run. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks guys. in order to get a water gauge, i would have to drill a hole near the bottom of the boiler which i WILL NOT do. i have seen other rubys with pressure gauges and they are intstalled on the righ port on the throttle thingamajigger and on mine, the is a hexagonal plug there that i think may be soldered in place. i fan her i think 6 times so far today, as i am still trying to get a feel of how she runs. i also considered a fuel tank 1 3/4 the size of her current one. her boiler has enogh water for 2 furs with 10 ml left over, but to play it safe, i thought maybe this size would work. please, give me your opinions on this, as you all know i still have a lot to learn. - Nate H


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> please, give me your opinions on this, as you all know i still have a lot to learn. - Nate H


Nate, you asked for opinions, so here is mine:

I have had a Ruby for 12 years..nice engine! I really like it..
IMO, a pressure gauge, a goodall valve, and a larger gas tank is complete overkill for a Ruby, and totally unnecessary..I have never once felt the desire or need for any of those things.

I have always felt that a "standard" run, with the unmodified configuration, is long enough as it is..I do one run, then let her cool down..maybe do a second run later if I feel like it, but its almost always only one standard run for the day.

but..I also have a second live steamer I can fire up if I like, and, I run 99% of the time at steamups, where im not the only one running..so when my one run is done, there is someone else waiting for their turn on the track..so "one and done" is standard procedure..and totally fine with me.

I would suggest living with your Ruby for at least a year before you consider any modifications..after a year, you might find you really dont care about those modifications after all, and you are perfectly content with the running Ruby as she is now..or, after a year, you might be totally convinced you DO want to make the modifications!  in which case, go for it..

But its almost certaintly too soon to know, yet, which way you will want to go..
IMO, none of those things are worth it..your mileage may vary.

Scot


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

scot, i kind of see your point, but one thing i think that could be useful is a goodal. i think i could get a lot more out of her without waiting for her to cool down completely. todday i did a trail with letting the flame burn as small as possible. the butanlasted 20 minutes, but it took 5 minutes for steam to build - nate H


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate a bottle and goodall are a pretty inexpensive investment. Plus you can swap it over to other Accucraft locos too in the future. 36.00 for both.

When firing up after you get to pressure. shut the gas off and top the gas off. relight and you have a full tank to play with. Just watch as when the water gets low and you have low pressures shut off the gas. You will want to add about 5-10 pumps of water every 5 mins or so. One pump of my bottles are 3ml. You just want to maintain 1/2 boiler or higher when running. If you are out of steam do not add through the goodall. Cool down and restart.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i got a goodal and valve on the way


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate, I will reflect and agree with what Jason sez above. Bring the boiler up to pressure (safety lifting), then shut it off and refill the fuel tank. With the burner down low enough to keep the safety from lifting, you should be able to get a 30 minute run out of her. And also like Jason sez, just add a few squirts of the bottle every so often to keep water in the boiler.

If the burner is lit and the throttle is open and in gear, but she's not moving, she's prolly out of water. It's really hard on a boiler (and in some cases, it can very be damaging to the boiler) to add water to a HOT empty boiler. The Ruby boiler is fairly robust and will prolly not be destroyed, but best practices (to get used to your future locos!) is to allow it to cool before adding cool water to an empty, hot boiler.

I have tried (and will most likely get blasted for saying so) to add fuel while the burner is lit. DON"T DO THIS. IT IS BAD AND DANGEROUS AND YOU CAN DESTROY YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, AND GET ALL LIVE STEAM BANNED FROM THE WORLD etc, etc. Actually the gas from the can when you pull it of the fill valve will displace the oxygen from the air inlets to the burner and the flame will go out. As a 13 year old, you've probably already tried this.

Now, on a tender locomotive on the other hand, .....


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

seadawg said:


> DON"T DO THIS. IT IS BAD AND DANGEROUS AND YOU CAN DESTROY YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, AND GET ALL LIVE STEAM BANNED FROM THE WORLD etc, etc. Actually the gas from the can when you pull it of the fill valve will displace the oxygen from the air inlets to the burner and the flame will go out. As a 13 year old, you've probably already tried this.
> 
> Now, on a tender locomotive on the other hand, .....


 dont worry, i havent tried adding fuel with the burner lit, but i have attached a bundle of bottle rockets to one of my lionels before....... never saw a model go so fast.... a spectacular crash also i may add..(i was 9 so i have an excuse) 

by the way, i have a question. are the ports on the throttle(where a pressure gauge is put if a ruby is equipped with one) soldered shut? i cant get it open no matter how hard i try


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

use a little bit heat (soldering iron on the plug) than plug should come loose!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i got it off!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i wont anytime soon, but is there a "t" i could put in the outlet so it could accomodate both a regner whistle and a pressure gauge?


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i noticed another big difference from other 3/8 cyl. rubys yesterday. its domes. on others, the steam dome is in 2 parts and they both snap on. mine has a solid, 1 part steam dome and they both fit very loosely on ruby. the line that connects the gas tank to the burner is also different. (mine is made of rubber)


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> i wont anytime soon, but is there a "t" i could put in the outlet so it could accomodate both a regner whistle and a pressure gauge?


You have to figure out what the threads are on it, but almost certainly you can tack more stuff on. ex: My Roundhouse stuff is 3/16"-40, which means I can use PMModelEngines as a supplier for pipe nipples, globe valves, etc. 

Check it out:
http://www.pmmodelengines.com/product-category/pipe-fittings/machined/ 

I added a "T" to the goodall takeoff on my Roundhouse specifically for a whistle, which PM also sells.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

what do you guys feel is a better investment?

-pressure gauge
-whistle

i NEED an R/C system. it will take me a while to save up for e\any or the 3 though, but i sold some of my other stuff to get some more money(over 70 pieces of lionel fastrak were sold, as our O gauge layout was converted fron fastrak to Gargraves)


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

does anyone know the size/ thread spacing on the port on ruby?


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

maybe i will post anothger steamup later tonight.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> what do you guys feel is a better investment?
> 
> -pressure gauge
> -whistle
> ...


Tomahawk & Western, the answer is "pressure gauge". Especially if you are going to have an R/C. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

didnt have time to upload it last night. so far, i have lost 1 1/2 gallons of water . 1 gallon was boiled, 1/2 gallon was probably spilled

here is a video of ruby

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SieYfaomkIM&edit=vd\

sorry, i didnt feel like doing much editing so there is alot of me in the video..


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

the inside/outside admission problem with her cylinders is starting so appear on ruby. when she runs forward, she makes this clunking noise and wants to lock up, but in reverse, she runs great. she has plenty of steam and lubricating oil, so i am thinking the problem with the cylinders is the problem.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

The threads on the Ruby are all M5 steam fittings. All the Regner fittings are a match. As to the admission. check to make sure your lock nuts on the valves are tight. Same for the reverser. It doesn't just appear, you had smooth running loco before and then you see a change, admission wont cause that. Possible timing adjustment happened.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks jason. i will look into it. how much will a pressure gauge cost me?


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*Ruby*

lOOKS LIKE THE rUBY WANTS TI STAY ON THE TRACK. dO YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A SMALL TABLE TO SET THE TRACK ON SO IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR YOU TO STEM. jUST A SUGGESTION.
Looks treetty good to me.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i have a card table and i ping - pong table she could run on. by the way, the nut on the right cylinder eccentric, was ETREMELY LOOSE. i tightened it up, and i hope that will fix the problem. by the way, i found a b-mann 3 bay hopper at the local flea/anique market for 16 bucks!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

ruby is running good again she ran better after a "bath". i put her in hot soapy water up to right below the air intakes for the burner. it is useless to keep it under the intake as water spalshes in anyway. gave her a good scrub down and se is lookin good for her new R/C install. it should be all set up on friday(it should get here thursday


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

today, ruby ran with r/c for the first time. she doesnt seem to like the outside track though(she prefers air conditioning and shade) as she wants to jump off the track and she REALLY hates her tender. she tosses it of the rails at every curve. the main problem is her boiler pessrue. when i first got ruby, she ran up the grade fine as long as she was getting enough steam.(i needed the R/C to run her down the grade).those problems can be fixed by some MINOR trackwork and lead weights. the main problem is rubys pulling power. most of the time, her safety is blowing off, but now she cant make it up the grade. i know the right cylinder is slightly leaky, but not enough to cause a problem.(i know the r/c isnt the problm as i spent a long time tuning, checking, and tuning the r/c this morning)

what i want to to is get a safety that releases at a higher pressure.I see no reason a safety that releases 20 PSI higher isnt safe. my rubys boiler was tested at 160 psi before leaving the factory. she operates around 30, and getting her to run at around 50 psi should be fine. does anyone have any suggestions or reason this shouldnt be done?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Because Ruby has small cylinders she requires higher steam pressure to develop any power. Higher steam pressure makes her less controllable. Even with R/C.
That is why larger replacement cylinders were developed to make her more controllable.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

A replacement safety that lifts at 60PSI is 45.00 with the adapter to fit the Ruby boiler. These are pop safety valves. Alternatively you can take the safety in the loco now apart. There is a E clip that holts the spring and spindle in the core, pull the clip and set aside, take the spring and stretch it to I think it was 3/4" Reassemble. The safety will now lift at about 60PSI. Also look at the Oring on the safety. You can out some oil on it to soften it a little. Just some steam oil is fine.

My Ruby is an original 3/8" cylinder and it always ran fine on slight grades on my friends garden railway. Ive always pulled 2 or 3 small 2 axle cars. Not designed to pull a large car.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

is a 60 psi safety safe for my ruby? will it interfere with the goodal valve somehow?what bugs me is that she used to be able to make it, but now she cant. P.S. do any of you attend the york tca show? i will be at the fall tca meet and the fall eclsts/ects show.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

most likely the eccentrics on the rear axle have moved and need to be retimed to restore operation. I know there is a procedure to do that, just cannot remember the steps to do it. There is also a mod to change her from inside admission to outside admission which helps her run better forward instead of running better in reverse. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

mike, when the cylinder thing attached to the drive rod is pushed out as far as it can go during a rotation of the wheels, should the cylinder thing be pushed is as far as it goes during a rotation?

as you may all know, i am rather curious in the sense of "what will happen if i do this." i was at a friends house yesterday and noticed a large bin of anthracite. i asked if i could have a few pieces and they said yes. when i got home, i broke the coal into pieces and packed the entire smokebox full of coal. i actually didnt intend to raise steam, but when i opened the gas the whole way , lit the fire, (the amount of coal in the smokebox blocked the flame from burning in the smokebox. in UNDER 2 MINUTES the safety was blowing off! the coals were glowing red and when i turned off the lights , the inside of the flue was glowing from the light of the coals! i opened the throttle, and i never saw the little girl go so fast!..................... 

THEN DISASTER STRIKES

A piece of coal cot stuck in the flue, jammed itself in the burner, and flame exploded out the air intake and a ball of fire engulfed ruby! luckily, i was just about to add water with the goodal and put out the fire qiuckly . no damage was caused to the engines paint, of r/c system. i got all the coal out, and found some damage. i found that there was a piece of coal stuck between the burner and flue, and a piece had somehow gotten INSIDE the burner. i filled out laundry sink with simple green (the entire engine was under water) i gave her a good bath( she likes baths) and the problem persisted. she wouldnt light, as all the gas would come out the air intakes .it was 10:45 when this happened so there was no time to work on her. this morning, i got a flathead screwdriver and chipped away at the piece of coal until i FINALLY got it out the proble still persisted. the i had a good idea! i got out our 22-25 caliber pistol cleaning kit and our shotgun cleaning kit. i swabbed out the flue and the burner.after a good few passes with the kits and some cleaning pads later, success! she burns better than new now!

so theres a good lesson. DONT burn coal unless your engine is a coalburner! -nate h.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I've seen people put a piece or two in the smokebox (or chimney) to get the aroma of coal, but it's really not a good idea if the coal ignites! The heat that burning coal develops can be more than the design limits of those front-end parts. But as you found out, experimenting is half the fun of this live steam hobby. The other half is fixing the things that we break along the way!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

yep. my chuff pipe was cracked at the bottom badly(i was afraid it would break off) and the coal heat cracked open the pipe worse . i ran her today without a chuff pipe, and i dont know if i should buy an acuucraft pipe, or a summerlands. because the summerlands is so expensive compared to the accucraft one.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Or you could MAKE one. 
Assuming there is still a good connection between the cracked tubing and the threaded part that goes in the valve block (probably there is if you were able to unscrew it to remove it) you could get a piece of K&S tube at a hobby shop that is a tight fit over the existing tube.
Cut the existing tube off about an inch above the threads and push the new tubing over it (it doesn't need to seal tightly-a little leakage won't hurt) then cut the tubing off about 1/2" below the top of the stack.
Then you can experiment with pinching the tube shut at the top and filing an "organ pipe" opening in the side of the tube and make your own chuff pipe. 
If the piece you add remains removable you could make several (tubing is sold in lengths a foot long so you'll have extra) for more experimentation.
Have fun, (that's what it's all about)
Tom


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

the chuff pipe cracked where the threads end, so i cannot easily make/repair it.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

You are lucky you didn't desolder the boiler front sheet/flue or door hinge. Nothing is designed for a coil fire IN the smokebox.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

jason, had the front flue sheet come unsoldered, what would have happened? 





PS. how much would a coal conversion cost for a ruby?


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## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

T&W ,

You would have instantly had a non-functional Ruby ! The front sheet would most likely move from its original position and wouldn't be repairable without a great deal of work and expense if at all. A steam burn can be very painful and require treatment if it is very big, not to mention injury to your face and eyes !!! BE SAFE .

Charles M SA#74


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Its best to use a piece of coal big enough that it cannot go down the flue tube. Glad you were able to save it. Burner should be ok once it fully drys out. Probably had water still in all the little holes so it wouldn't light properly. Your learning the best way, by doing. Of coarse whats obvious to me or someone else, might not be to you yet. Like using a piece of coal big enough that it cannot go down the flue tube and end up right in the fire. In the smoke box it should not ignite, just give off aroma and absorb some of the oil/water from the exhaust. Of coarse one must make sure not to have the burner up so high that the flame is burning in the smoke box, thats not good even without the lump of coal. I run the minimum of gas I need to make steam. Conserves fuel and costs. I prefer to bring the engine up to steam gradually and not like a speed demon. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

charles, i am glad that didnt happen! by the way, i would not suggest using coleman butane with steamers. it tends to carry a lot of dirt and you will have to clean the jet VERY often. i did some more work on ruby, and she now is back to her normal,somewhat demanding and bossy self. i took the silver off the rim of the number plate and painted the inside part a bright red with a gold #1. it looked very pretty.. until i realised testors model paint does NOT like heat..


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

You can get heat resistant paint at the auto parts store in a spray can, used for engine blocks. You can spray the paint into the cap till you have a little pool of paint in there. Then use the brush of your choice to paint out of the cap. I do this myself when having to touch up a live steamer with high temp paint. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

guys, i think i am done with butane. about every 3 days, i find myself cleaning the jet, which means taking the R/C off too. i am seriously considering an actual boiler with firebox. that way i can burn whatever i want. charcoal, coal, wood,...and hopefully not my fingers
SUGGESTIONS?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> SUGGESTIONS?


yes..you should _absolutely not do any of that!_ 
not to "fix" the burner anyway..

Nate, I admire your enthusiasm! I really do..

but..

im noticing a pattern in your thinking when it comes to the Ruby..from my perspective, it looks like your thinking is something like this:

"Hmmm..im having an issue with the locomotive..maybe I can fix it by making things WAAAAAAAY more complicated!" 

The RC made things more more complicated..you aren't enjoying it.
now you want to solve one issue (the burner) by creating 999 new problems that the Ruby doesn't currently have..

As many have said, live steam isnt good on grades..99% of people who run live steam locomotives solve the grade problem by: not having any grades! 

And more than half of live steam operators solve the issues that arrive from the complexity of RC by: not bothering with RC! 

I understand your garden RR has some grades..could you perhaps build a level loop specifically for live steam alone? many people do that, and its a great solution.."best of both worlds"..

Converting a live steam loco to "alternate fuels" is a BIG deal..very complex, and it is never done to make things simpler..because it makes everything WAY more complicated..the only reason to convert to an alternate fuel is because "I enjoy the challenge of making things way more complicated"! some people are into that! and thats fine..but I dont think that's what you want right now..

The Ruby can run perfectly fine..if you stop trying to make it far more complicated than it needs to be. 

Scot


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

scott, i do have habit of overthinking things, but the butane is only part of the reason. i was always fascinating by being able to "fire" a locomotive. and ever since i first started this thread, i wanted a coal fired one. i was thinking about having charles build me a boiler, along with reversing the eccentrics and fine tuning the chassis. my "dream ruby" is coal fired, 1/2 cylinders, whistle, 60 psi safety, pressure gauge, water pump (axle or one that is connected to the piston on RH side), water resivoir,bark box, check valve, goodal*,tender, sight glass, and R/C*.. whew.. that is a long list.

a new boiler would add 5 of those features. i know some steamers have all those features, so why cant my ruby? larry herget had that vision. so did a client of charles. so why cant i?

scott, i know what you are thinking. i AM new to the hobby, and i agree but you realize coal firing does also have advantages.
thanks- Nate H.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157669407581996/with/27473470551/


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Nate, what brand butane are you using?
I read only recently somewhere that Coleman butane is fairly dirty. Not sure of the truth of this but it may be a source of your problems with a frequent dirty jet. Maybe paying a little more for the 'good stuff' and the problem will go away. 
Others can chime in on brands of butane that they have no issues with as I'm a world away and the brands will be different here compared to where you are.

Andrew


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

andrew, i am the one that wrote about coleman butane being dirty. idont really have acces to any other butane so i think i will have to use coleman.
you think because of the brand (and price) it would be good.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Nate, the other option is rather than totally re-engineer an entry level live steam locomotive which I'm sure you love very much is to accept Ruby for what it is, a stepping stone to a better one later that has already had all the improvements built in at design time by those who have years of experience. 
There are reasons why say an Aster for example is more expensive than others. I once saw a cut open Aster live steamer and it was amazing how much effort went into just the boiler design. 
It is better to address a level track, then all your live steam engines will run with little hindrance and give Ruby the best chance to run well.

Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

"andrew, i am the one that wrote about coleman butane being dirty."

Nate, ahh! funny that. I read it just the other day and couldn't remember where I read it. So it was you!
Maybe try another brand for a comparison just in case there is something in his circle of 'advice'. 
You would think that it would all be filtered and clean anyway. Asian grocers often have butane for those little portable stoves which may have a different supplier. Others can vouch for Coleman. I can get it but never used it.

Andrew


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

but iwhy is coal firing a BAD idea? that i dont understand.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> but iwhy is coal firing a BAD idea? that i dont understand.


I love your enthusiasm. I'll try NOT to bore you, BUT this "old guy" (yours truly) has been operating 1/12th and 1/8th scale ride-on steam locomotives for about 60 years. I love the hobby, but sometimes it is just frustrating. Especially when you think you have it "mastered" and your kind of problems crop up. 

Here's my story........I built my first live steamer when I was about your age. Built a 1 inch scale Little Engines 0-4-0 Saddle Tank switcher. I joined Los Angeles Live Steamers in 1980, when I bought my 1-1/2 inch Gene Allen ten-wheeler. Built it from a kit, but I had to machine every single part in that engine myself. Not a problem because I was a journeyman die sinker. After I had been in the club for about a year, my Dad's business partner and I bought a 1-1/2 inch Allen Mogul already built and ready to run. It was coal-fired. As both of us were new to running a coal-fired locomotive, we soon found out we had a lot to learn. We decided to take a locomotive engineer class offered at the club. We were to learn how to fire with OIL on a 1/8th scale Pacific. Lot bigger loco and a lot more complicated than our mogul! After a few months of classes and learning, we graduated as Engineers and qualified to pull public with some very heavy trains. We felt confident that we could learn to coal-fire our mogul with the same ease.......WRONG!! I would rate steam engine "firing difficulty" as the following. Propane or butane in your case, probably the easiest to learn. Oil firing a little more difficult because of learning how to set the atomizer valve to spray the oil into the firebox for a nearly smokeless stack. The most difficult way to fire by far is coal. Ask any engineer and most will agree. It took us about 1 to1-1/2 years to master coal-firing to the point we could pull a good-sized train on any kind of layout (heavy grades and flats) and actually return to the station with a full head of 120 pounds of steam. But once you learn the system and can be "ONE" with your engine, there is no finer experience in the steam hobby than firing with coal.

If you need more answers or have more questions, please PM here and I will help you. Don't be discouraged. The live steam hobby will be with you your entire life. Enjoy it.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Nate

Would you please consider removing the animated gif file with the loco crash. It is cute and interesting the first time or two, but it is EXTREMELY visually distracting when trying to read your posts. It overpowers everything. You have lots of interesting questions and thoughts, but the big "movie" does not help.

regards


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I didnt realise it was a signature image at first..
As a signature image, its againt the forum rules:
http://forums.mylargescale.com/29-beginner-s-forum/52786-rules.html


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> but iwhy is coal firing a BAD idea? that i dont understand.


Nate
I tried coal firing myself with a K-4 and did not have sucess. Not the engines fault because Ryan can fire it up and run it all day long. You are not giving the butane side of the hobby a fair shake. I think you are trying to hard to do something that is really fairly easy to do. As some one mentioned about raising track level so as to not need r/c for the ruby. We all want you to be sucessful in this hobby and am sure there are other things that are down the road in the future for you.
Take it easy.
I love my alcohol fired engines as well as my butane ones. If you have an Chinese grocery anywhere around you , check themm out for the butane fuel used in the little stoves they have.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

jim & scot ,sorry i did not realize it was against the rules. i fixed it though Art, i will stick with butane because charles wants $2,500 for a coal conversion. Wow! i thought it would be waaay less than that. oh well


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

*sniff*skip to 5:00.

otherwise was good steamup


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

shes injured, but SHES ALIVE! i picked her up, did a little tuning to the eccentrics(as she left the track, a rock jammed between the frame and eccentric and this caused the wheels to lock up when i put her back on the rails.) her right had side tank was sratched and scuffed up pretty bad. i plan to take them off and intall running boards evetually anyway. i steamed her up again and she limped around the tracks. oh well, i will clean her up tonight


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

took her apart, fixed the eccentrics, cleaned her up, flushed her out with water, cleaned the boiler, ran her on air for a few minutes at 60 psi, cleaned her up some more, oiled her up, ect. will steam her tomorrow.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Cool video! And the railroad looks really nice..
Looks like a fairly minor mishap!  sounds like you got her fixed back up..
Scot


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I get my iso butane mix from the local smoke shop, but Walmart also carries it in the sporting goods department in much larger cans than the smoke shop. Walmart, atleast localy, tends to sell out constantly, so when they have it, I stock up. Nice looking railway. Mike


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Nate, have you seen the SSP Slomo? It is a device with a flywheel to smooth out the running. Perhaps one of these could help you with taming the Ruby's running characteristics up grades and around curves. It will make Ruby work a lot harder and give a better 'chuff' with far more realistic starts and stops. I believe there is not enough room to fit one in a Ruby but one could possibly be fitted to a trailing tender etc. It could then be used on different locomotives or sold on later if it didn't suit you. 

http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/39306-testing-ssp-slomo.html

Andrew


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks, but the line looks alot better today as i trimmed weeds all day long and removed that big dead bush. i also got rid of a huge pile of junk scattered around. i did some measurements and in the 12 foot straight aways, the line drops 8 inches, so i hve plans to eventually build up the railway to make it level. for now, i will build a "safety fence" around that cure by hammering dowels into the ground and use screen material attached to prevent any more "rollovers"

the crash was caused by me trying to juggle running a steamer with rc on steep downgrades, using a video camera, and wearing thick work gloves all at the same time. for the most part, ruby is rather tame and likes to stay on the track. she needs to get a running start on the grade or she struggles, so a slo mo would be too much for ruby and she would stall instantly most likely.

P.S. a friend has become intreseted in some of my sparkies so i might sell them to him so i can put more money towards live steam


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

i want to make a carrying case that can hold ruby and her tender without disconnecting them because i have to disconnect all the r/c wires, causing wear on the plugs and it is time consuming. i am thinking of wooden box that has latches so the top part can come off of the floor and the florr will have strips of wood for rails. has anyone built something similar?


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have built several, here's the one I use for my Climax. very easy make.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

how does the top latch to the bottom?
-nate


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate;

I tend to take a "lazy" approach to locomotive carriers. I measure the length, height, and width of my locomotive, then seek out a toolbox with suitable interior dimensions at Lowe's home improvement center. The original packing used to ship the locomotive frequently gets reused to give the locomotive a snug fit inside the toolbox.









The photo above shows Gandalf perched on his carrier toolbox.

Cheers,
David Meashey


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

dave, that works well for tenderless engines, but i need to keep my tender and engine connected.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used twist lock latches as in the 1st photo and also standard window locks like the second. Each carrier is custom for the locomotive it carries as the 'sponge' on the top keeps it from bouncing and the length stops it from rolling. You can easily replace one end with a hinged ramp and put the catches on the sides. and you also have a workable plan there. I have also built double decker carriers where the loco is on the bottom level and the tender is on the top. In that case I don't just rely on catches to keep it secure, I also use straps. LG


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"dave, that works well for tenderless engines, but i need to keep my tender and engine connected."

Nate;

There are some fairly long toolboxes available. I don't have a tender locomotive as yet, but think that I should be able to create a lift-out carrier that will fit inside the toolbox when the time arrives. You don't have to use this idea. I just thought it may be of help.

My personal experience has shown the toolboxes to be sturdy and reliable, plus cost effective. I am hoping to eventually have a tender locomotive, then I will construct a lift out carrier for it.

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> andrew, i am the one that wrote about coleman butane being dirty. idont really have acces to any other butane so i think i will have to use coleman.
> you think because of the brand (and price) it would be good.


I got my butane on ebay. This is a good deal with free shipping. This brand never clogged my jet. http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Butane-F...364482?hash=item41ad5c0a02:g:NcEAAOSwjXRXcUyd


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate,

Two comments.
Coleman camping gas is a mix of propane and butane. Your loco's gas tank says BUTANE ONLY. Which doesn't mean you can't use camping gas, but search the forums for more threads about the issues.
I get my pure butane from the Asian grocery where it is sold for use in small butane stoves. 

There are lots of different designs for loco carriers. Again, do a search for ideas. Jack Thompson's are particularly elegant - he got the idea from someone.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

pete, coleman make a mix of butane and propane and they make pure butane. i use the pure butane


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I stand corrected. The pure butane is new, I guess.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

snowshoe said:


> I got my butane on ebay. This is a good deal with free shipping. This brand never clogged my jet. http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Butane-F...364482?hash=item41ad5c0a02:g:NcEAAOSwjXRXcUyd


You can also get butane from Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HMI756
I've had pretty good luck with this stuff. Although when I bought a case of it it was cheaper.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

*very sloppy ruby*

ruby isnt running lke she used to. her throttle manifold leaks sometimes as well as the cylinders and she isnt burning fuel as efficiently as before. she also has trouble with pulling a train. she stalls constantly on level track while safety is blowing off. BTW is butan supposed to be 30% liquid?
her valve gear timing is also off. would jason, ryan, or charles be interested in looking at her for me?i hate to send her away as i dont trust the post office


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Butane can be all liquid at low temperatures and pressures and all gas at higher ones. There's plenty of google info. on the actual numbers.

I know what you mean about not trusting the post office with our precious locos - that's why I've spent many hours fixing problems myself that should have been waranty issues. Although I must also say that I've had a lot of fun doing it.

I can't really help much with your other problems - the only general point I would make when it comes to fixing leaks, is to be careful of the temptation to just keep tightening up the fixings. The delicate threads are easily damaged and in the absence of any torque specifications you just have to develop a 'feel' for it.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

the last week ive been working on leveling the railroad and now it has a grade of 0% ! i will put down track tomorrow and put dow ballast on top of that. i might make it to the PLS Labor Day Meet too.
-nate


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> i might make it to the PLS Labor Day Meet too.
> -nate



Don't forget you need to be a member to go. Not open to the public. Also being you live closer to it, there are requirements like attending word days and working there and attending the membership meeting. Information is on the PLS website for membership


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

tom put me down on the guest list and said i would still be able to run my Ruby there even as a guest. Jay, do you go to the PLS labor day meet?


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

how well do you think she will run in the winter? (snow) i am planning on having her push an aristo snow plow, but i didnt know if she would have enough power to get through drifts.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Ruby in winter time?If you heat up the water faster than it freezes ,ruby will run,pushing a snow plow for show will work also,if its half an inch of powder,will work to!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

lostasteam, it is not for show, but actual plowing. i was wonderig if she would have the power in cold temps to plow.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

> I was wonderig if she would have the power in cold temps to plow.


one inch, or less, of dry powdery snow..maybe.

2 inches or more..probably not.

and that has nothing to do with live steam..it's because Ruby is a small, light 0-4-0..an electric engine of the same size and weight would have the same issues.

Ruby is simply not ideal power for a plow, simply because she is small, light and pretty weak. Try it out with light snow, but dont expect much.

Scot


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

Running steam in the winter is tons of fun. You can get way more photogenic smokestack behavior.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

consider a couple things, one is the ruby boiler is not insulated at all you lose a lot of heat into the ambient air /second problem your butane tank will not vaporize the gas when its below 50* fahrenheit ,you might get by with butane/propane mix ,but as small and finicky the ruby is below regular temps you'll freeze your fingers off ! You can try firing up the ruby inside and when the pressure is up go for a lap or two!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

this thread IS NOT DEAD!!
just an overveiw of my ruby. i have had her now for a little under 4 months, i have gone through 13 cans of butane, 4 gallons of water, 1 container of lubricating oil, and 1 container of steam oil. i should also add that i have only severely burnt myself once so far(i couldnt us my right hand for a day as i burned my knuckles really bad

Nate


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> this thread IS NOT DEAD!!
> Nate


Too bad. It's now a real life zombie. Wait, can there be such a thing as a real life zombie? I mean a zombie isn't life let alone real life as we know it, right? 

See, you cannot get life out of the dead. (interesting phrasing - I surprise myself  ) 

Best to let the dead rest in peace. Start a new life. Life is always better when it's fresh.

Just an opinion.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

it wasnt dead, just taking a nap. i still cant figure out how to build my new elevated layout. how on eath can you put stringers between support posts on a curve????


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> it wasnt dead, just taking a nap. i still cant figure out how to build my new elevated layout. how on eath can you put stringers between support posts on a curve????



Layout building;Track, Trestles, Bridges and Roadbed Forum


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

The amount and type of snow makes a huge difference. Here's my Accucraft S-12 pushing my Aristo plow easily through a dusting of light powder:










Here's a video of my K-27 pushing the same plow through a few different snow conditions:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/vOo5SP9O0EY

You can see that even the big K, which has great traction and no shortage of power, struggles with wet heavy snow. One thing I've found with plowing snow is that, in addition to the challenges of keeping the butane flowing in cold weather, you also end up with wet rail, which turns into icy rail, which is not only very slippery, but also tends to cause derailments when the ice builds up in the flangeways of point frogs and guardrails.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks


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