# HLW/Delton pax cars with LGB or Bachmann



## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

I know there is a scale difference here (1:24 for the Hartland/Delton and 1:22.5 for the LGB Bachmann) but I was wondering if anyone had any photos of the HLW/Delton pax cars in a train with or at least next to the LGB or Bachmann cars and locos to see if they mix ok. I imagine if necessary you could put the HLW as the first car between the loco and the LGB 3084 and it might look better. Anyway just wanted to see if anyone had a picture of this or would mind taking one for me. I've just finished procuring several more LBG 3082 passenger cars and a 3084 baggage car to combine with a Bachmann Obs car to form a sorta San Juan. The only car I'm missing is an RPO and besides Accucraft, which would be completely out of place, only HLW/Delton seems to offer one (Bachmann's baggage looks like a RPO save for the lack of windows and lettering). I'm not brave (or financially flush) enough yet to buy and then kitbash two LBG 3083 combines together. Thanks for your help.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Bachmann's baggage looks like and RPO save for the lack of windows and lettering 
Cutting windows in a Bachmann coach isn't too difficult. Lettering is easy too. Go on - try it!


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 08 Dec 2010 10:08 AM 
Bachmann's baggage looks like and RPO save for the lack of windows and lettering 
Cutting windows in a Bachmann coach isn't too difficult. Lettering is easy too. Go on - try it! 
ok the the lettering doesnt scare me its more the window cutting. If I had one lying around I could mess with without worry I would but I really don't want to buy one and mess it up and then have to go buy another one. What tool would you recommend for a cutting tool here?


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Love my Zona razor saws for this kind of thing...Masking tape protects surfaces you do not want damaged. New blades cut B-man plastic like butter.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is how I sliced and diced some Bachmann On30 coachs:

Kitbashing an On2 scale coach from two Bachmann On30 coaches. 


Smaller than a Large scale coach..but the same techniques should work fine for large scale.


Scot


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Measure twice, cut once. Make a mark to show which side of line to cut, repeat for all cuts. 
Mark two lines; the final line and a line inside that for your cut. File to finish. Time is your friend, take all you need. 
The window's trim can hide some and body putty the rest 

Learning is fun and we all have learned from our mistakes, why, we are the most learned fellows I know! C'mon jump in, we won't let you sink...too deep! yuk yuk. 

You'll need a coping saw with fine teeth and a drill bit large enough to pass one end of the blade. Drill the hole near a corner, but inside the inner line. you can cut curves. or several notches to change direction. I usually start with a curving diagonal that 'switches' into my cut line, at least 2 saw blade widths (not thickness) before stopping at the corner and back out. Do not saw too fast, the plastic can get sticky and 'heal' behind the cut. I usually do another corner and then drop a section to make turning the blade easier. Backing in to a corner cut allows you to cut forward to the corner. See? It's simple. 

Have fun! The razor saw is good for other cuts. 

John


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

thanks for the tips ill keep it in mind. im trying to locate a cheap bachmann baggage car body shell to use as a prototype for practice before going after a real one. still interested in the pics of the HLW RPO with the other makes rolling stock and engines if anyone has them.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Allright so next question/issue is decals for reletterring to an RPO. I am having a hard time finding any passenger car decals, much less RPO. Would I just need to get a generic alphabet set and figure out what I want it to say on my own? 

side note: I also need to reletter some freight cars and while freight car decals are much easier to come by, none of the manufacturers specify whether its G or Fn3 scale (I assume the Fn3 scaled decals would look too big on my G scale rolling stock)


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By TJH on 10 Dec 2010 09:20 PM 
Allright so next question/issue is decals for reletterring to an RPO. I am having a hard time finding any passenger car decals, much less RPO. Would I just need to get a generic alphabet set and figure out what I want it to say on my own? 

side note: I also need to reletter some freight cars and while freight car decals are much easier to come by, none of the manufacturers specify whether its G or Fn3 scale (I assume the Fn3 scaled decals would look too big on my G scale rolling stock) 


G $cale.... a misnomer... G comprises several scales from: 1:32, 1:29, 1:24, 1:22.5, 1:20.3 and up... It all runs on 45 mm track Thus can be lumped togethe as G Ga. trains Fn3 is 1:20.3 and 45mm = 3'. F is to define that scale as Finescale removed from LGB's early compromised scaling as 'toys' commonly refered to as G scale. 
Knowing what brand help narrow your scale.

I used to use dry transfers on my On3 stuff and can tell you it's a real pain to keep the letters spaced and sitting right. Much better to have the printer do that for you.
Now you have two choices right here at MLS, may be more, Stan Cedarleaf does custom decals and Del at G Scale Graphics makes vinyl lettering. Both advertise here and 
though I haven't finalised my logo and ordered from either of them for this, I can say both are fine gentlemen and will work with you. 

John


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I have an original Delton RPO car (green) if you are interested. I don't do 1:24 anymore and it's just sitting downstairs in my storeroom. PM me if you're interested. 
As to decals, if it's Fn3 (1:20.3) it is usually marked somewhere. Likewise with 1:24 stuff. Otherwise, the rule of thumb is that standard gauge markings are going to be 1:29 and narrow gauge markings will be 1:22.5 but if you_ really_ want it done right Cedarleaf Custom Railroad Decals (look up in the right corner for the banner add and click on it) is the best way to go!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Steve S., 
Wanna be my secret Santa? 
One man's junk is another's wow.... I luv G24! 

Jumping up and down 'here, over here!' looking very chalant on a silly Saturday morning! 

John


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

In terms of the size of the lettering ("G" scale vs. 1:20.3, etc.), much depends on how calibrated your eyeballs are. If you can look at a box car from 20 feet away and tell that the door is a scale 9" too wide, then perhaps you'll want to make sure the lettering is properly scaled. Otherwise, I seriously doubt you would ever be able to tell the difference unless for some reason the lettering didn't fit the space. (i.e., passenger car lettering for a 1:20 passenger car may be too long and too tall to fit on the smaller 1:22 or 1:24 passenger cars. 

The sad reality is that you pretty much have to go the "custom" route in large scale anyway, since commercial decals or dry transfers for any of our scales are not exactly commonplace. You may be able to find some old stock lying in a file cabinet at the hobby shop, but that's really the exception. (The good news is that if it's that old, it's probably 1:24 to begin with). Both Stan and Del (mentioned above) do good work, and I can recommend Jeff Damherst at Shawmut Car Shops as well. He does both vinyl lettering and decals. 

As for the size of the Delton stuff relative to the Bachmann/LGB stuff, I don't have a photo, but going from memory, the Delton stuff is just a bit lower at the top of the letterboard, but the roof itself is a touch taller than the Bachmann and LGB roof, so it makes up for a bit of the lower height of the carbody. I believe the height difference between the two is on the order of 1/8" to 1/4" or so. It's visible, but (in my opinion) not at all objectionable. The other thing to remember is that narrow gauge passenger equipment varied in size to a greater degree than what we commonly see in standard gauge passenger trains (though there was subtle variation there as well). It wouldn't be at all unusual for cars to vary in height by 6" relative to the next car in the train. I saw a photo of the San Juan the other day in a book I was looking through, and the difference in height between the baggage, RPO, and passenger cars was very noticeable. (Of course, in that photo, the RPO was the tallest, but...) 

Later, 

K


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The RPO on the D&RGW San Juan was higher than any other cars on the train. This was a requirement of the US Post Office. Much like the RGS Geese that carried mail had to have a stove added to the rear. Rules is rules!!!


I have the Delton RPO and it is lower than the LGB D&RGW passenger cars. I do not have any Bachmann J&S coaches, so I can't comment on their relative heights.

Chuck N 


The RPO in the Accucraft Jan Juan set is taller that any of the other cars.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Chuck, what was the rule governing the height of the RPO? I know they were always at the head end of the train because crews were not allowed to enter, but a height requirement is a new one on me. I'd imagine it would have something to do with the floorplan and room for the sorting bins, as that was standardized for the standard gauge RPO cars. I'd imagine they'd have to have some room for scaling things down given the smaller size of the narrow gauge equipment. (For that matter, how many narrow gauge lines even _had_ dedicated RPOs? Many/most carried mail, but sorting en route seemed to be a rarity on the narrow gauge.

Later, 

K


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin:

I read that in one of my D&RGW books. I'll try to find it. It may take some looking.

I can't imagine that they would have made the RPOs taller if they didn't have to. It would be interesting to see if the height of the NG RPO matches the height of the Standard gauge RPOs. I don't have any Standard Gauge passenger car books so someone else will have to answer that question.


Chuck N 


PS: In the 25th Colorado Rail Annual "Rio Grande Narrow Gauge Varnish" on page 53, the author mentions that "cars 66 and 119 were rebuilt in 1924 to conform to revised U. S. Post Office safety regulations". Several other places in the book talk about strengthening the frame because of these regulations. I'll continue looking.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Loving this discussion of D&RGW RPO's lol. Looks like I'm gonna go with the Bachmann vs the HLW. dtetreault was generous enough to offer his combine to be sacrificed on the altar of rough drafts and the bachmann baggage cars are so cheap vs the HLW RPO's that I can afford to screw up a couple and still break even (just got one off evil bay for less than $25  ). 

On the subject of the San Juan, I know the D&RGW did mixed trains, but did they ever have any express reefer service that found its way on the train? I'm guessing they had some sort of freight cause a lot of the pictures of the San Juan I've seen have multiple baggage cars, often times as many baggage as coaches.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin:

I've looked in all my books and can't find any more on the height of the RPOs. Perhaps someone here on MLS mentioned it when the Accucraft set came out.

Chuck 


It appears that the only "tall" RPOs were the two on the San Juan.


THJ

Here are some pictures of my repainted and decaled Delton RPO/Baggage car and one showing it with an LGB baggage.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By chuck n on 12 Dec 2010 06:56 AM 
Kevin:

I've looked in all my books and can't find any more on the height of the RPOs. Perhaps someone here on MLS mentioned it when the Accucraft set came out.

Chuck 


It appears that the only "tall" RPOs were the two on the San Juan.


THJ

Here are some pictures of my repainted and decaled Delton RPO/Baggage car and one showing it with an LGB baggage. 






























Thanks for those pics. Exactly what I was looking for. I definitely think I made the right choice in bashing the Bachmann. That difference in height would bother me. Chuck, where did you get those decals? Those are exactly what I would be needing.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I made them about 20 years ago. 

I made them myself. For the film I used an adhesive backed clear film that could go through a XEROX machine. I did the black lettering using a font that I thought was close. It wasn't an exact match, but using the 10' rule it worked. For the DENVER AND RIO GRANDE on the facia board I used an outline font. I then printed out the basic template and then ran that through a XEROX printing the copy on the adhesive back film.


I then got a small brush and some gold paint and filled in between the lines of the lettering.

Now I would call Stan Cedarleaf and ask for some. But in the early 90s I didn't know him or any other source for custom decals. 

This idea wasn't new to me. At that time someone in the Denver Garden Railway Society used this technique to make a set of "decals" so we could make our own Coors reefers. As color printers weren't common then, we hand colored the images to get the desired look.


Chuck N


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks for checking, Chuck. I'll have to keep my eyes open as well. Thanks for posting the pics of the cars, too. That's pretty much how I remembered them, though it's hard to describe. I still think the Delton/Hartland passenger cars are the most elegant pieces of passenger equipment made for large scale. I never owned a set myself, but always liked the arched windows. Of course, now that I'm dedicated to 1:20.3, I find sets come up fairly regularly. *sigh* Too bad dad doesn't need any more passenger cars for his railroad... 

Later, 

K


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