# Snapping rail



## Brendan (Jan 12, 2008)

Merry Christmas everyone

Well it's Christmas morning here and it's absolute bedlum in the house. So I've got my priorities right. I'm in the shed buiding turnouts. But I've struck a problem. I shape the closure rails but every time I bent the guide rail at the frog the rail snaps.
I've been building my turnouts for a number of years and never had this problem. I usually notch the rail on the inside of the bend, heat it and it bends easily enough but for some reason the rail snaps.
What goin on?
I might have to go inside and have a beer.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

try the same, using old rails. 
i read, that the newer rail has less copper in it. it might have become too brittle from that.


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Brendan, 
I have never built a turnout but have bent a lot of rail. I assume you are using brass. I agree with Kormsen, it probably has to due with the metal mix. I would suggest you try heating it again (dull red in a darken room) and drop it in water. Brass is a metal that gets harder from being “worked” and the problem could be the manufacture failed to anneal it properly to make it bendable after forming it. 
Hope this helps. 
Merry Christmas, 
Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Doesn't dousing it in water temper it? 

I thought you let it cool slowly to anneal metals. 

Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

My vote goes to faulty rail and lack of copper. 

I tried to reshape a painted brass-colored handrail and it snapped, revealing a very porous core. Nothing like I've ever encountered before. 

I suspect Quality fade. At least it looks like brass.... 

Merry Christmas 

John


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 25 Dec 2009 09:16 AM 
Doesn't dousing it in water temper it? 

I thought you let it cool slowly to anneal metals. 

Regards, Greg 

Ferrous metals (and glass!) you do need to let cool slowly (or even take extra measures to insulate it to retain heat) to Anneal it for softness. Cooling Ferrous metal alloys quickly (plunge into a cooling liquid or blowing cold air on it) will Temper it (make it hard or brittle)

Copper alloys always Anneal to a softer state whether you let it cool slowly or rapidly.


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## Brendan (Jan 12, 2008)

Sorry I should explained more. The rail is Code 250 Brass. It was a fairly new section.I tried an older section yesterday and I did'nt have a problem.


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## coyote97 (Apr 5, 2009)

i dont think that it has something to do with the age of the material.
Metal tends to become stiffer by time, not more flexible! 

I would search the point in the material itself.
Brass is just like "steel" or "aluminium".
There are thousands of sorts arround!

But Brass is expensive, especially with good material-qualitys.
So its very near to think that the rail-manufacturer simply used another (cheaper) sort of brass. 

Many switches of the industrial manufacturing have guiderails of plastic, so theres no need to bend a brassrail that tight as it has to be on the frog when made of brass.
Mostly the rails end near the area of the frog.

So i fear theres only one way:
keep hope as long as there are rails from older charges,

or try to make the rail very hot (u can go up to 300 degrees Celsius....) PERHAPS it will work.
For more i would shorten the rails-foot to let it bend much easier.


Frank


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

After Reading this post the next question that has to be asked......With this new Rail with the formula change What is going to happen when you try bending it with a rail bender of any kind?


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## coyote97 (Apr 5, 2009)

oh, i think that works!
its a question of how tight it has to bent.
the rail and guardrail at the frog normally is ONE piece. But for make it possible to drive with trackpower, its isolated, cut and mostly the guardrails are made of plastic.
so for industrial use, its enough that the rails can be bend to say....1 foot radius.

But as far as i understood, he has to bend an edge...exactly at the point rail-guardrail at the frog of a switch.

Such an edge is nearly a radius with no measure. against "0".

Even the very quality rails from thiel are breaking when an endge comes to be to tight. Its not possible to bend buffers or bumpers (at least not while beeing cold....)

Therefore stainless rails will work better. Its harder to bend, but it does not break that fast. Brass is no good material to bend. And most diameters we are bending while making curves are FAR out the critic dimensions for bending.

Frank


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## Brendan (Jan 12, 2008)

Using a rail bender is'nt a worry. It's the sharp deliberate bends that give me grief.


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

I have built 8 switches and have never had one snap. I do not heat the rail before bending it. Just notch bottom and bend. I use Aristo and LGB to make them.


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