# Question about boxcars, 1940s



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

As I get into this hobby more I want my layout to be more consistent. We are going for basically a 1940s-50s look.

I was looking at Jack Delano's great RR pictures, taken for the office of War Information and available on Shorpy.com and at the Library of Congress' "American Memory" website. Delano took a bunch of pictures of the Proviso yard, outside Chicago, in 1942 and 1943.


What's interesting is how motley and varied the rolling stock is. I cropped some of these to make it clearer, but you can see all-wood boxcars, outside braced boxcars with steel ends, wood reefers, and a remarkable variety of sizes and styles. I just want to make sure I have my facts straight. As I understand it, the truss rods underneath cars had mostly vanished by the 1930s. I believe they were actually banned--is that right?


I'm assuming that these pictures, coming in the thick of war, reflect the fact that A; the rails were extremely busy, and B: they were using everything available. I suppoose that explains what appear to be hybrid cars--steel ends and wood sides. but there also seem to be some brand new all wood boxcars as well. They were conserving steel for the War. 


I'm also guessing that wooden cars were scrapped very quickly after the war, and replaced with the standardized 40 ft boxcar











There are 40 footers in both all steel and wood, and there are some less than 40 foot outside braced cars










Here again, some wood and steel, and some very different sizes. The CNW in the front looks brand new










The CNW looks brand new: to the left of it is a wood sided box with steel ends? And look at all the outside-braced, wooden cars. 


The original pictures are really great. But if anyone could give me a timeline for these kind of cars I'd appreciate it.

Also how come no one makes cars like this? The USAT outside-braced cars are not bad, but they are in 1:24 (I think) and too short and wide, and they have the truss rods. Hard to kitbash, although I suppose you could put steel ends on them.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

No trussrod cars or archbar trucks in common carrier interchange service during this period although there were still some in service as MofW on home roads only. The cars range in age from about 1920 into the very early 1960's in diminishing numbers. 

All the cars you see in the photos had steel underframes. The standard boxcar of the era was the 40 footer. There were also a number of single door 50 footers but most 50 footers were double door mostly for hauling autos. These cars were mostly steel at this time but some railroads had outside braced door and a half 50 foot cars that had wood sides and ends still in service. Mostly the wood sided cars had steel dreadnaught ends. 

The cars were of different heights which made for a "choppy" look on freight trains. This was because of the varying dates the cars were built and rebuilt. Boxcars included wood planked, steel ends; Outside braced wood sides, round roof all steel; riveted sides and ends (PRR had a number of these); plywood sided cars, some outside braced; and of course the latest 40'-6" steel cars from Pullman and others. 

Colors were about 80% boxcar red, or tuscan red, or similar mineral red color. Billboard cars were outlawed because ABC Co. didn't want their products delivered in a car advertising competitor XYZ Co.'s products. A privately owned/leased car dedicated to the company's products could be excepted. 

Reefers were universally ice cooled and in the 40' range. Few exceptions here. Wood sides and steel sides operated together. The heights, unlike boxcars were pretty uniform as they had to be serviced by the same icing platforms. Colors were generally yellow, orange or white sides with mineral red or black ends and roof. 

Hopper cars were most often about 32' and with twin hoppers although a growing number were longer with triple and even quad hoppers. Covered hoppers were generally the same as the open hoppers but with a top and maybe a bit different lower detail. Cement was a common cargo for covered hoppers and most often that I saw were grey in color although I'm sure there were other colors. You never saw grain hauled in a covered hopper as boxcars were almost universally used. 

Gondolas ranged in length from 40' to 70 or 80' mill gons. Some had outside braced wood sides with steel ends but most were all steel because gons got beat up very fast due to the cargoes they hauled. 

Tanks cars were mostly basic black although there were a number of aluminum colored. Too there were specialized tank cars that could be almost any color. Fuel might be yellow, chemical tank cars usually had smaller domes and often a railed platform on top. I remember a Roma Wine tank car that was purple about 1959-60. 

Stockcars were probably 90% wood with or without steel ends. A few steel stockcars were beginning to appear. Colors once again mostly mineral red with a number of black also. Of course there were a few other colors here too. The Katy had some painted yellow for example. 

Most of these prototypes are or have been available in HO scale for many years and are quite well scaled and detailed. If you are up to doing a bit of scratch building check them out and perhaps buy a few and use them as plans to scale up for your use. Just multiply each dimension by 3 and you have a very nice accurate 1:29 scale car. I had cars that represented just about everything shown in your photos when i was in HO.

An interesting couple of cars in one of the pix are the C&NW boxcars that were obviously rebuilt reefers. They retained the reefer doors but lost their ice hatches and were painted a shade of mineral red. When I was going to school I worked in a dept. store warehouse where rug rolls were delivered in reefer cars because their better condition protected the rugs better than the average rather beat up boxcar.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

For age, remember that for interchange, that 40 years was the max for a car. So if 1950 is your year, in "theory" the oldest car could be 1910, but keep in mind the underframe and other requirements as Richard also pointed out. Get a freight car rulebook from eBay for the year you want, they are cheap enough. 

Also keep in mind that cars were often rebuilt several times over as it was in many cases cheaper for tax purposes to rebuild a car Vs. buy new.


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

What a wonderful history lesson, Richard. If the model railroad is going to generate that much smoke, you may have EPA visit your yard.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes indeed! Thank you very kindly Richard for that detailed information--exactly what I was looking for. 

As to the rolling stock, it looks like I'll have to make it myself--the HO cars are an excellent idea


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## Warbonnet (Jan 3, 2008)

In the third photo, on the next track from the CNW cars, you will notice that three of the cars have white X's on them. That is to signify that the cars are loaded with munitions. That was done during WWII to keep the rail crews informed of the load. Jake


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Warbonnet on 05 Mar 2010 09:08 PM 
In the third photo, on the next track from the CNW cars, you will notice that three of the cars have white X's on them. That is to signify that the cars are loaded with munitions. That was done during WWII to keep the rail crews informed of the load. Jake 
Hey Jake, thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't even noticed those X's. SP in the 60's had a number of boxcars with big yellow diagonal lines on the doors which I believe signified "lumber loading only". I used to see a lot of them along the SP's North Western Pacific in northern California.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Also note that many of the cars have radial roofs, and not the two flat pitched surfaces common to the all steel box cars. 

A really great source of detailed photos and more than you want to know about 1:1 freight cars is the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia [RPC] series of books. They usually pubish two or three volumes per year. About $30 each, but a wealth of information. Not expensive if you have been buying them as they come out. Up to volume 19 I think. 

JJS


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks for the great picture. I love the variety in the pictures. I Remember Proviso High school when I was growing up. I lived block from the Blue Island Yard of the Rock Island. I use to sit and watch trains for hours.

Thanks for the history lesson Richard.

I have a couple of box cars that I did not think would fit in my consists These pictures show me that I may be able to use them


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I have an aristo 40 foot car that's out of service because the paint scheme is the wrong era. Looking at it I think it ought to be possible to sand the detail off the sides, apply wooden siding, and keep the "steel" ends intact. Then I'd have maybe a plausible representation of a 40 foot wooden car. Hmmm


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the history lesson.

I think my bachmann stock car with the peeve in it is out of place with truss rods and archbar trucks. The peeve *is* a bit of a crowd pleaser. 

My treasured "SOUTMERN PACIFIC" reefer met the pavement yesterday. Slid right out of its box on the way to the car. One truck is busted to pieces and a few detail parts are missing. I'll call Navin. Oddly, I don't see any damage to the car itself. No road rash or anything. Must have landed on the busted truck.


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## bcer960 (Dec 27, 2007)

I have plans for the "dominion "cars, and have had plans to make them for some time. For those that are unfamiliar they are 36' outside braced wooden box cars, also turned into stock cars by removing every other piece of siding. I will be making cast urathen kits of the car. However, the problem I have is I cannot get the outside brace which is really a "Z". I may have figured out a way to compansate for it, but am into building 3 interurban baggage cars right now, but the box car is next. 











Ray


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## H-man (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks for the lesson Richard, I believe that truss rods were gone early in the teens in interchange service mostly because the trains were getting heavier and the loads that the carhs had to carry were exceeding the limits of a truss rod car. Rivited steel center beams were getting very popular in the 20's & 30's with the "FishBelly" look was prominate. 

Old Bachman truss rod wood cars could be streached to 40 feet with a modified underframe that looks like the 20's era fish belly center beamcars to get a car that will have the look and feel of an old wooden mainline car. From 10 feet he oversized grab irons may not be too out of scale. 

The AML stock car is also a good starting point for an 40 foot outside braced wooden car, just need to fill in the open slats and repaint and decal. 

I have abvised and pleaded with all of the manufacturers over the years to produce an outside braced wooden car that workes for all of the first generation diesels and all of the steam locomotives available today. we have yet to see this done other than the the Aristo "REA" express car made in the early 90's and the 1/22nd scale cars from the beginning of the large scale experience from LGB, Bachman & USA. So far no takers. Can you imagin how many they would sell? Yet they continue to build and distribute the same PS1 steel cars that sit on the shelves. I have 100 cars and will probably not purchase anymore steel cars unless they make something dramatically different. There is only so much room to store these. 

Howard


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bcer960 on 08 Mar 2010 08:13 AM 
I have plans for the "dominion "cars, and have had plans to make them for some time. For those that are unfamiliar they are 36' outside braced wooden box cars, also turned into stock cars by removing every other piece of siding. I will be making cast urathen kits of the car. However, the problem I have is I cannot get the outside brace which is really a "Z". I may have figured out a way to compansate for it, but am into building 3 interurban baggage cars right now, but the box car is next. 











Ray
Ray, That would be a great car to produce. If I was into mainline railroading in largescale I would, like Howard, be screaming for cars like that. The 36' car fits nicely into the 40' standard era as many older and rebuilt cars were still in service in the 1940's.


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## bcer960 (Dec 27, 2007)

I have a pic of a CP 12 man bunk car made out of one of these 36 fters, I can't imagine being cramed with 11 other guys into one of these cars in the middle of Aug. in the fraser canyon with temps in the 40 deg celcius range, but my work train needs at least 2 of them. Oh, and the pic was taken in 1971, so some of them survived in service for a long time. 


Ray


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## bcer960 (Dec 27, 2007)

Here's the pic of the bunk car










Is there interest in a dominion car in 1:29??

Ray


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've decided to try to make one out of an Aristo 40 footer. I'm planning to use the scribed wooden siding micromark sells, which is only 1/6th thick. I'm scraping the details from the side of the aristo box












It's actually not very hard with a razor 











I thnk I'll spread epoxy on this surface and press the siding in place


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## bcer960 (Dec 27, 2007)

keep sending pics, this looks interesting... 
Ray


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Updated in a new thread:

http://www.mylargescale.com/tabid/5...fault.aspx


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## Greg Vocks (Jan 2, 2008)

A few years ago, I dismantled a couple of old wooden reefers that had been converted into a shed. They still had the truss rods, but the center beam and bolsters were replaced with a steel frame, so they appeared to be truss rod cars, but had steel running from draft gear to draft gear. 
The last inspection stickers on them showed them running in 1931 (I believe) with a load of potatoes. 
I spent quite a bit of time in those cars as a teenager, and imagined what in must have been like "back in the day."


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