# Windows 10 vs. using iPad or Android



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Recently I've been trying to standardize the computer systems I use for the hobby. 

I use JMRI for controlling and testing trains, programming decoders, etc. Clearly I use computers to interface to train forums.

On the use of phones and tablets, for our club meetings and for casual use, using JMRI allows a smart phone (iPhone or Android) to control the train, and of course, a tablet running those operating systems.

One thing is that JMRI apps are lightweight and can run on really slow smart phones and tablets. But I have noticed that tablet prices for things like an iPad or Samsung tablet are still pretty high.

Recently I noticed that tablet manufacturers have put quad core Atom processors in tablets, and sure enough, now you can buy a Windows 8 or Windows 10 tablet.

On top of that, I just bought a Windows 10 7" tablet with a quad core processor for $69 !!!

It runs every program I have, Office, etc. and will run all windows apps. At $69 brand new, why are we bothering to run our computers on windows, but our tablets on something else?

Now I don't have to worry if the right app is available, or it only works on ios9 or android 5... everything works. I run the windows based throttle on JMRI and it's great... I can run my QSI and Zimo programmers from the same portable tablet.

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Holy cow Greg, where did you get it?
Thanks for the insights ---
Cliff


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Where'd you find a Winders 10 tablet for $69??


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I've not interacted with a physical Windows machine in about 10 years, but how the heck do you do Windows on a 7" screen? That was the thing that turned me off to Windows phones back in the day--I didn't want to try and find an application on a start menu that was 18 pixels wide. And my fat fingers always touched the wrong menu item. I could never understand why they tried to shoehorn a desktop interface into a phone-sized screen. I've never actually used "Metro" (or whatever they're calling it now) but my understanding is that it was a launcher--and that the "launched" apps still behaved in a traditional manner (with menus, etc)

For some things (a throttle, photos) a tiny screen is fine. But when you're running a full-bore Windows application on a 7" screen, how do you interact with it? Do you use a stylus for menus? Those are serious questions, by the way. My nephew's iPad mini seems too small to me...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

riderdan said:


> I've not interacted with a physical Windows machine in about 10 years, but how the heck do you do Windows on a 7" screen? That was the thing that turned me off to Windows phones back in the day--I didn't want to try and find an application on a start menu that was 18 pixels wide. And my fat fingers always touched the wrong menu item. I could never understand why they tried to shoehorn a desktop interface into a phone-sized screen. I've never actually used "Metro" (or whatever they're calling it now) but my understanding is that it was a launcher--and that the "launched" apps still behaved in a traditional manner (with menus, etc)
> 
> For some things (a throttle, photos) a tiny screen is fine. But when you're running a full-bore Windows application on a 7" screen, how do you interact with it? Do you use a stylus for menus? Those are serious questions, by the way. My nephew's iPad mini seems too small to me...


I have the same concerns.

I now have a Winders 10 laptop with a 17.5 inch touchscreen, of course it has a full keyboard and trackpad (which I always disable and use a mouse instead).

I think that a touch screen on a phone sized device is useful, but on a big screen I wear my arm out waiving my hand about reaching for the appropriate place to touch while I accidently touch the most inopportune places. ("NOOOOOoooo I didn't want to close the window, you big ham-fisted dork!")

And I am way too used to touching the screen with a finger to track some list in one window while I work on some list in another program's window and that "touch screen" plays havoc with keeping the mouse focus where I want the next typed character to go.

I just did my monthly bills in my Excel spreadsheet ($1800 worth of insurance and utilities payments... glad some of those insurance payments only come every 3 months!) and tried to use the touch screen for several operations and it was a real pain... spent as much time undoing a misplaced touch as I did actually selecting a cell to type in.

I think that "Windows" on a phone sized device might be just as useful as "Android" and "iOS" are for the same things that the other Phone OS's are used for, but to do full blown windows on a regular basis is probably not the best. It will work in a pinch, but would not be very efficient of one's time.

Still.., I want one!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Fry's electronics has them on sale pretty often, you can find them on ebay and amazon.

They are pretty snappy, even with 1 gig of ram.

Greg



CliffyJ said:


> Holy cow Greg, where did you get it?
> Thanks for the insights ---
> Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you have not interacted with a physical windows machine, it would be hard to explain windows user interface with words alone. You also did not mention what version of windows you are familiar with.

The user interface is a flexible version of the iconic interface you find on a smart phone, but the icons can be resized larger and smaller.

The user interface also understands touch much better, the old touchscreen interface that just interfaced like a mouse did not work well.

There are "metro" apps that are designed for windows 10 and also can work differently on different size screens (like my web site, try it on a high res screen, and then on a smart phone).

A full bore windows app depends on how much data you are trying to see. Oh, my Windows 10 tablet will run an external monitor up to 1920 x 1080.

Greg



riderdan said:


> I've not interacted with a physical Windows machine in about 10 years, but how the heck do you do Windows on a 7" screen? That was the thing that turned me off to Windows phones back in the day--I didn't want to try and find an application on a start menu that was 18 pixels wide. And my fat fingers always touched the wrong menu item. I could never understand why they tried to shoehorn a desktop interface into a phone-sized screen. I've never actually used "Metro" (or whatever they're calling it now) but my understanding is that it was a launcher--and that the "launched" apps still behaved in a traditional manner (with menus, etc)
> 
> For some things (a throttle, photos) a tiny screen is fine. But when you're running a full-bore Windows application on a 7" screen, how do you interact with it? Do you use a stylus for menus? Those are serious questions, by the way. My nephew's iPad mini seems too small to me...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Semper, I agree with you, waving your hand all over a large touchscreen is a recipe for fatigue.

I use a combination of mouse and touchscreen on my big computers.

Tablets and smart phones will be better by touch.

The whole idea is that you can use touch and/or a mouse as you please, or a combination... normally I use touch for zooming and panning, and mouse for precision selection.

Touch with Excel is crazy, because each cell is individually selectable.

Greg 




Semper Vaporo said:


> I have the same concerns.
> 
> I now have a Winders 10 laptop with a 17.5 inch touchscreen, of course it has a full keyboard and trackpad (which I always disable and use a mouse instead).
> 
> ...


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## Como (Apr 17, 2009)

I moved over to Chromebooks for most of my needs, android for Phone and Tablets. I have to use Windows occasionally, a pain compared to the others.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, the point of the thread is that I can use Windows on not only my main and work computers (where Windows has the applications I need), but that I can use the same operating system on all sizes of devices and you can get a Windows 10 tablet with good performance cheap.

So, you have to use 3 different operating systems, that's what I am trying to avoid.

I'm in engineering, so my use of a computer goes way beyond web surfing and email and social media and games, you can do those on anything, even a wrist watch.

Greg


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I'm in engineering as well. I would love to standardize on iPad and Linux. Yet engineering programs are stubbornly windows only for good cad packages. So far I am paired down to iOS and windows. I'm messing with Linux as the alternative to win 10.

On a tablet I prefer an ps designed for a tablet. And desktop one designed for a desktop. Kinda the right tool for the job scenario.

Win 10 seems to be kinda jack of all trades master of none pita in all.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, you can use Windows 10 in such a way that most people could not distinguish it from Windows 7. There's a lot of misinformation out there. I had this for years on windows 8 and windows 10, and people were amazed when I showed them what operating system I was really running.

The nice thing with Windows 10 is that you have your "Desktop" back, you don't have to fight the O/S / Metro like you did in Windows 8.

I think I'd be willing to give up my cool Android phone and live with a much smaller repertoire of apps to have this consistent interface and the obvious data interchangeability.

Anyway, it's quite exciting to me to be able to simplify my "stable" of computing systems. All the tablets in my house are now Win 10 and my wife is happy, she has the same interface on her desktop as on her tablet.

Greg


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Greg,

I have a half-dozen or so Windows virtual machines, but the newest is Win 7. They're mostly used to test developer tool interaction with hypervisors/servers--although there is an XP VM I use for one specific documentation tool. That VM is actually a clone of a physical machine I had back when I first started my current job.

Anyway, I'm still not clear on how you're interacting with Windows (whatever version) on a 7-inch screen. Let's say you want to program a decoder using JMRI. You open the decoder pro programmer and you are presented a list of decoders that are already in the database to select. How do you select one from the list? I'm not precise enough with my fingers to manage that on a tablet, I don't think. Or for instance you're editing your loco roster in Word. You decide you want to format one of the table cells. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to select the correct cell with a single tap, and getting the formatting menu also seems like it might be tricky. Basically, I'm asking how you can mange to interact with the Windows application "desktop" interface on a 7" screen. Do you use a stylus, or are you just really good at hitting the correct button/menu item with your finger?

I agree that creating a homogenous environment makes things easier to manage, maintain, and even use. It's always requires a bit of mental gear-shifting when I switch between the Linux computer I work on eight hours a day, the Macs I have for personal use, and those Windows VMs.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Greg, how about a recommendation for a ~10" (I don't see that great) touch-screen, with a detachable (or wireless) keyboard?

Also, how do you connect DVD players & wireless mice and so forth? Do these tablet PC's tend to come with several USB ports, or is that old tech now? 

Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Microsoft surface pro 4, coming in November. Latest processors, light, detachable keyboard, good battery life, etc. 

Most of these have a video output, micro display port or micro hdmi, which will go right into hdmi.

Many only have one or 2 usb ports, but now have micro SD slot, and Bluetooth, and there are some terrific bluetooth keyboards and mice... 

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Huh. Almost sounds like it would replace my ol' laptop, a nice but seemingly ancient  Dell I bought 3 years ago. I'll keep my ears on, thanks Greg. 

But for layout use, meaning JMRI, X10 stuff, pics, video, etc., is there a ~10" touchscreen tablet (with means for keyboard input, one way or another) that might be up to the task for around $100? 

Wait, maybe you've answered my question, in that most tablets have the interfaces you describe. So, I just need to look for a 10" TS tablet with W10 and decent specs.

Looking now...

[eidt] Well, no joy yet. And Greg, though I saw it after you posted on it, I can't find anything on frys.com that has W10 on anything other than a surface. I must be on the wrong page...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Cliff:

Not for $100 in a 10"... way too big a screen for $100

$179 wallmart

http://www.walmart.com/ip/44503405?...9618912&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=125614959392&veh=sem


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

8" combo tablet/laptop (keyboard pops off) at Frys Electronics today for $79 quad core windows 8.1 (easily upgrade to 10) for all you West Coast people.

http://www.frys.com/product/8379487?site=72premail092815

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Wow, 5 hours later and it's already sold out! But thanks for the alert Greg, seems like a great site to periodically check out.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can get on their mailing list, and then you get a promo code with the email that gives you a big discount.

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That's the ticket, thanks good buddy!


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## olliesale82 (Jan 4, 2022)

I think android is best and I hate windows 10, nowadays windows 10 sucks here because it's full of bloatware. Windows 10 bundles a lot of apps and games that most users do not want. It is the so-called bloatware that was rather common among hardware manufacturers in the past, but which was not a policy of Microsoft itself.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

olliesale82 said:


> windows 10 sucks here


Reported as SPAM


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete Thornton said:


> olliesale82 said:
> 
> 
> > windows 10 sucks here
> ...


Was just forced to go to Windows 10 because my Windows 7 laptop crapped out (bad fan). I tend to agree that Windows 10 is more difficult to use than Windows 7... not because it's more resource hungry, but simply because the more they try to dumb it down to make it "easier for everyone," the more difficult they make it to use (sound familiar?). Example: was trying to install my old Brother color laser today. Had to call tech support (though not because of Windows 10). However, there's no more "Control Panel" directly available from the Start Menu... Now you need to click "Start," then type in "Control," then select "Control Panel." It just adds steps AND typing to something which, previously, was just a couple of mouse clicks. And, though Win10 came preinstalled, the initial configuration was a hair-puller, and installed crap like OneDrive without giving me the option to decline. I could go on and on... but I'll spare you.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dwight, just wait until you get Windows 11, even more dumbed down, almost approaching an Apple Mac....


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I made my own computer with ASUS mother board and separate ASUS video card. No preloaded mfg useless software!!
Biggest issue I now have is Microsoft trying to make me use help. It is my computer and I make the rules, not Microsoft. Perhaps it is time to go to linex. I have a Boot cd and USB stick that boots up any computer and does NOT use any hard drives to do this, helps me solve lots of problems I see in family computers. And lets me bypass startup passwords.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can turn off the startup password easily in windoze... you can "tame" windows to stop bugging you. Some tips on my site under computers.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight Ennis said:


> However, there's no more "Control Panel" directly available from the Start Menu...


I have it on my Start panel. You can drag and drop an icon from the list any time.


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