# LGB/Aster models, Lets discuss likes/dislikes



## Dave H (Jan 5, 2008)

Who has 1 or more, and who has experience with these engines?
Or just seen them run?

Please list the LIKES & DISLIKES from your experience.

Any Running, Sound or Quality(things falling off & so on) problems?



What was the first/last one made?

I believe the Shay & K-28 were the only ones with OUT sound correct?



Tac,

2 friends have the White Pass Mikado steam, nothing but trouble, like you mentioned.

1 friend has a Hudson, another friend has the Shay(non sound, before factory sound) both are FINE engines, no trouble.


I have a Garratt, fine running engine. 

It is on rollers with MTS, it is easier this way, since everybody that comes down wants to see & hear it run.(its a running display piece)

Stan,
in Washington has a Garratt, How do you like it? http://www.stanstrains.com/


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

The Garratt is really great. It's beautiful and it's unusual. The sound is superb. It's fun to watch run even though it's on a reversing unit and runs back-and-forth only about fourteen feet.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Stan - and others, I have to agree with your comments. Mainline131 and I have often run our friend Neil's Aster/LGB Garratt and the live-steam Garratt as double-headers, with the sound turned WAAAAAAAY up - in fact, it's on Youtube if you care to look. 

Anything that Aster built in its entirety seems to have worked just fine - the K-28, the NYC Hudson and the Shays - and the Garratt, of course. It was when the ywere obliged to use a drive-train that was not only fitted with out-of-scale wheels, but feeble beyond belief, inspite of its august LGB ancestry, that things went tits-up. 

The WP mike was an opportunity for LGB to build a much-needed model that nobody else had the cojones to build - a REAL 1/22.5 mike to scale dimensions in just about every respect - do a search on my posts from a few years ago where I measured the real thing against the model. Such a model really needed, from the off, to be built by a master model builder, and LGB had worked successfully with both Aster and Magnus before, but it was to Aster that they eventually returned. This opportunity had only come about because all of a sudden, LGB had an eight-coupled drive-train that satisfied the need to bend in the middle - the one they deveopled for their plastic 1/27th scale 'mainline mikes, US and French. 

Sadly, the LGB engineers had not done their homework, and the drive-train, more than adequate for hauling a plastic body-shell around, failed dismally and almost instantaneously when installed in a seven kilogram all-metal body. I had THREE before I got one that lasted more than literally half a minute, and that recently died on me in the middle of a show, causing a LOT of embarrassment and necessitating a lot of help from my favourite 'cousin', Jerry McColgan, in trouble-shooting it and getting it back together. 

Without naming any names, but Zubi knows who I mean, Aster were mortified and embarrassed beyond measure that their name was associated with this expensive disaster that bore their name. 

As for the Garratt, well, if I had $$$ to spare, I would add it to my little collection without any hesitation. Even swap out my mike......... 

tac 
www.ovgrs.com


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Having owned an Aster/LGB K27 I can relay the experience of a satisfied customer with that production. On the other hand the poor effort to produce a GG1 with the stipuation of flex drive was far from the standard of Aster but within the "toy" standards of LGB (IMHO).


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well its not the same 
but my recently acquired frank s is not only a treat to look at but to run as well 

well proportioned, sturdy, very carefully machined and assembled-and best of all-very straightforward in assembly -ie easy to maintain and to repair 

id buy another lgb aster in a minute (WPY mike excepted) 

and 

plan on getting another aster live steam in the coming year or so


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Ah, so it was YOU who got the GOOD one, eh?

Only kidding. 

Some of them needed a good bit of TLC to get them running satisfactorily.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Dave H (Jan 5, 2008)

Tac's train: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqtf3CjHgs0

Garratt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxmvjSt0-LM

Does anyone KNOW this man Martin Fried ?
He seems to have a nice collection.

GG-1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da5RdvqiIM8&feature=related

Garratt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9EhZ_TXRq8

Coke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRhO3HkSb18&feature=related

Zubi, or anyone else:
Do you know or have you visted this club?

Awesome trains, by the way.

Check out 6:50 it has the LGB Hudson, great sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lEflo0k3lQ



A little off topic, but I was pleased to see Silvergate was on youtube.

Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NohslmwndQ&feature=channel

Sumpter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNHt8ZlnK4s&feature=channel

Rhb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1JtiWn7keo&feature=channel

Check out some more videos, from Silvergate on youtube, they are quite nice.


I really miss the LGB site, where you could look at & hear all of their trains.

Has anyone found a web site, that has ALL their trains with sound on it (in english)?

Thanks Guys.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB/Aster Frank S
One of the better productions by the joint venture, we have had two of them. The one that serves as our switcher is a fine engine


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Having seen the Aster/LGB K-28 (#473) in person I can say it's a beautiful loco. And it includes some ingenious ways to help it make some tight radius curves. I'd love to own one myself, but finding one for sale is next to impossible. And when and if I do, it's going to cost anywhere from 4000-6000 dollars for one in mint/never run condition. Kind of pricey for one loco







but then I think of what some HO brass models sell for and it's actually not that bad a deal.

I didn't know Aster did a K-27 that a few mention. Are you sure you didn't mean the K-28? Or maybe you were referring to the Magnus K-27? Either of which I'd love to have. 

Since I'm discussing 1:22.5 D&RGW locos, the Kiss K-36 is also nice at least from what I've heard. Never seen one of those in person before.


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## Dave H (Jan 5, 2008)

Charles,

I too was not happy with the LGB GG-1, for the money USA trains & MTH are just as nice if NOT better.

I was going to buy 1 at Watts in Indiana, for $3000.

Instead, I bought a MTH GG-1, SP Daylight, Challenger ALL three for the price of 1 LGB.


Charles, is that a Paul Busse layout? 

What location is this?

http://www.appliedimagination.biz/


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt
Thanks for the note on my misplaced numeral via the keyboard....K28 is correct


Dave
Yes, it is located at the Morris Arboretum near King of Prussia PA. Great RR layout but restrictive with small radii.
The MTH GG1 is a great model at an outstanding price. The MTH GG1 can hold its own against the Fine Arts model.


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

If you're as fascinated with Garratts as I am, take a look at this site: The Garratt Locomotive


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB's Aster D&RGW Mike was a K28.

I own the WP Mike and so far am happy with it. It has many, many hours on it.
But having said that, the factory sound was not very good. 2 chuffs per revolution, among other things.

I installed a Phoenix board with the EBT Mike sounds. 4 chuffs, beautiful whistle, etc.
And now it has an Air Wire, 14.4 battery on board. All the LGB electronics are gone.

It's a driver, not a shelf queen. And that's what I will do with it until it craps out.
And then she will be rebuilt with all aftermarket motor and gears.



I'm not worried one bit......

jb


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Here's a short video of my LGB/Aster Garratt that I made today: Garratt Videohttp://www.stanstrains.com/GarrattVideo.htm


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave H on 04/20/2009 11:46 AM


I really miss the LGB site, where you could look at & hear all of their trains.

Has anyone found a web site, that has ALL their trains with sound on it (in english)?

Thanks Guys.





http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_produktdatenbank/

The wav files are there. Yes, the site is in German, but easy enough to sort out.....


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## dmk092 (Jan 5, 2008)

I prefer engines that are straight Aster by far. Asters are always up and running within 20 minutes of lighting the burner. Ive never had a good run with an LGB engine. I light them up and they just sit there..........


bad jokes aside, Frank S does appear to be a great engine.  Im somewhat dissappointed they didnt make any others


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

This ended up being an expensive thread for me









I found an Aster/LGB K-28 in my price range and she will be gracing our layout this summer. 


I can say it is one smooth runner. And it surprisingly had no troubles going around a short test track I made with some old LGB track and R2 curves.


She's currently in for an Airwire/Battery conversion. But before the conversion, I took a few photos with a flat car kitbash I've been working on. It comes with three orange/yellow re-railers on each side of the tender. I took these off to paint silver/aluminum:


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## LGBGuy (May 28, 2009)

I own one of everyLGB/Aster Locomotive made, except for the Frank S and the Amtrak GG1. Although they do have some scale issues they are in general excellent running, although I admit that they are more often displayed than ran. My favorites in no particular order are the Shay, K-28, White Pass, NYC Hudson and the Garrett. If you know anyone selling a like new Frank S or the Amtrak GG1 please have them contact me. I am interested in completing my collection.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

>Posted By Dave H on 04/20/2009 11:46 AM
>[...]
>
>GG-1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=da5RdvqiIM8&feature=related
>
>Garratt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9EhZ_TXRq8
>
>Coke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRhO3HkSb18&feature=related



Dave, honestly..., you scared me! I checked the video's only to read of someone who 
fried a GG-1... then I noticed that he fried several other engines;-)... 

>Zubi, or anyone else:
> Do you know or have you visted this club?
> 
>Awesome trains, by the way.
>
>Check out 6:50 it has the LGB Hudson, great sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lEflo0k3lQ


The video is taken at the largest model train show which takes place each year, usually 
at the Big Sight convention centre in Tokyo. I have been there many times and I have
seen the display by this club but I have never visited them (as they do not run live steam;-(...


Regarding your original question, I can tell you about WSL #12, K-28, Harz 2-10-2 and NGG-13 
These are all fine engines, although they are all different in many ways. K-28 is in my opinion
the best engine that LGB ever released. NGG13 is fantastic too, it is simply beautiful and very
reliable. The scale is somewhat different being about 1:19 rather than 1:22.5 or thereabout
for the other ones which I listed. The WSL #12 which was the first electric limited edition 
produced by Aster for LGB is a great engine too, very robust and powerful. Being the first one
it lacks several features of the later models, such as sound or voltage regulation circuit to 
provide constant lighting. But this can of course easily be upgraded. Harz 2-10-2 is very nice
with the exception of the plastic wheels which may show slight wobble. This was the engine
developed at the quickly rising slope of the limited edition popularity and at the time of
a relative economic prosperity, LGB was in a hurry to get it done before Christmas... But like
the K-28 this is an engine of high complexity which required time. The development hurry
can be noticed on a few design omissions, such as lacking pick-up shoes on some axles. 
Nevertheless, this is a very good and powerful engine, much nicer than the plastic version
developed several years later. (By the way there are a few plastic elements on this model, 
which at the time served as an early predictor of the plastic version;-). I still do not understand
why LGB decided to make a plastic one having just released the limited edition which they 
also inflated to 900 pieces which they could hardly sell... well, if anything, this apparent 
lack of logic was perhaps a good predictor of their bankruptcy... but never mind about that.
If anyone wonders, there are no plastic parts on teh K-28 so do not worry that there will be
one in plastic) Of the above four, only the Garratt has sound and a very nice sound too! 
I actually watched it being recorded at SchBB in Schinznachdorf by a Massoth engineer.


I am not going to discuss WP&Y #73, I have one but I keep it in a box... hoping it is OK.


I have seen the GG-1 both in production and in operation, although this is not a narrow
gauge engine I quite like it, and perhaps one day I will get one, if not for any other reason,
then just because of the stripes hand painted by my friend who Terry names without naming him.


The Hudson is a standard gauge engine which I tend to avoid, I have no opinion, although 
to the best of my knowledge this is a very fine engine.


The TSSD is probably the cheapest of all the Aster limited editions as it was produced when
the popularity of these sharply declined and in effect the engine was overproduced. I still
do not own one but I will sure get one one day. The scale is about 1:20 I believe but I have
no hard measurements. Technically this is a very fine engine and should be a good runner.


And finally, there is one that never was, a prototype which never saw production, Best, Zubi


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## dino.t (Jan 1, 2013)

I have the Hudson, and mine is new. Honestly speaking, i don't know how to run it? I'm new at Live Steam, and need help.....

Dino


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## dino.t (Jan 1, 2013)

Charles:

Where is this wonderful layout located? Would love to see it someday. I also have a Frank S., and as in the case of my Hudson, i have never used it. I own a total of 4, Asters, and don't know how to run them...... 

Dino


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I have the Garratt also.
finely detailed and the sound is good too.
It's a beauty! Mainly for display though. 

Andrew


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## Manhart (Dec 27, 2007)

I own a WP&YR 73 Mikado (LGB 21832).










This model is a very disappointing experience (no traction power, speed much too slow). I converted the engine completely (new MAXON motor):










www.beathis.ch - 21832 (german only) 

Regards

Matthias

www.beathis.ch


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Dino, 

You might want to go to the live steam forum and introduce yourself in a new thread. 

This one is old, and "product reviews" is probably not getting as much attention from the steam operators.


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Thanks to TAC I was aware of the problems with the WP Mike but as LGBoA was shutting down I ran into a deal I could not pass up and bought one along with a spare Mike drive unit. Even though the Mike has the improved drive system I have been unwilling to risk putting it on the layout and pulling any trains with it so it is a nice shelf queen on the fireplace mantle.

I would love to hear from anyone who has a White Pass Mike with the improved drive system and has been running it regularly without any problems. I'd like to at least run it enough to keep the capacitors charged.

The left steam chest is very slightly crooked and the white trim makes it evident (to me anyway). I would like to straighten it but would not want to risk breaking anything if I tried. Any ideas about whether it would be safe to straighten it?

Jerry


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## Manhart (Dec 27, 2007)

I own a LGB/Aster 20922 Garratt Drakenberg since some weeks.










I will modify my Garratt in the next few weeks:

- ZIMO MX695 with sound
- ZIMO smoke generator
- gold-caps

The details will be on my website: link (german only)

Regards

Matthias


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## bontrager (Apr 20, 2014)

Hello from a new member.

Does anyone know where I can purchase an LGB/Aster 20922 Garratt Drakenberg with sound.

How much may I expect to pay.

Thank you!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

They come up occasionally. About $3,500~$4,000 Just depends on how quick someone wants to sell. 
You have to be very careful how these are shipped. The foam lined wooden boxes do not always hold the locomotives well especially when the shipping baboons continually drop the boxes on the ends causing the weighty locomotive to shunt back and forth. Pad the buffer beams well!

There is one below, perhaps a bit pricey and shipping etc. comes into the equation. He has other LGB/Aster locos for sale but all very expensive.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LGB-ASTER-2...dellbau_Modelleisenbahnen&hash=item1c3e953031

A few that have sold to give an idea on selling price.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/LGB-Aster-Lok-Aster-Garratt-Sammlerstueck-Artnr-20922-/150598063291
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LGB-ASTE...E-DIRECTIONAL-LIGHTING-FIRE-BOX-/121144030075

Andrew


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

bontrager said:


> Hello from a new member.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can purchase an LGB/Aster 20922 Garratt Drakenberg with sound.
> 
> ...


About 2,400 Euro plus shipping.

http://www.modell-land-service.de/garrat-dampflok-20922-aster-digita-p-9154.html?osCsid=259e0fbd58a6dad9520510ebc516f0e4

TOM


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## Manhart (Dec 27, 2007)

Grootspoor in Holland sells one 20922 (Euro 3950):

http://www.grootspoor.com/lgb-20922-garratt-dampflok-ngg13-60-sound-limited-edition-1

Neule in Switzerland sells one 20922 too (CHF 4600):

http://www.lgb-neule.ch/Neuheiten/pages/0700_SchBB 9 2008.htm

Regards

Matthias


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Well, chaps, this thread has been running for some time, and it should as LGB/Aster locomotives are the best money can get in G-scale in my opinion. We are really fortunate that these projects have been undertaken, I still remember the wait for the first model, WSL Shay. And the thrill of every new announcement. It is a pity that it is all a history. There was one more model in planning, but it never happened. But we are fortunate to have these which were produced. The first four engines are for me most valuable WSL #12, D&RGW K-28, 2-10-2 Harz, and the NGG13 Garratt. A year or two ago I finally opened the box with the WP&Y #73, and surprise, surprise, I actually like it!! One should remember that LGB had a unique goal with these engines, and that is to make them able to run on R1, say around your Christmas tree;-). This was a highly nontrivial engineering task, and they succeeded impressively on this. These engines combine the best of two companies (Aster&LGB) with great engineering expertise in model engineering, they are engineered and finished with exceptionally strong materials, look great and run strong. I think that WP&Y #73 has been unnecessarily bashed, the pace of things was so fast at the time, that from the historical perspective, it was a right choice to make this engine using available resources. Otherwise, it would have never happened. So now I have added WP&Y #73 to my favourites;-)! To make a long story short, these Aster/LGB models are by now classics which have no equal, and every one of them is different in style and engineering - so if you are looking for something special, consider one of these. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

The shipping baboons drop heavy long boxes on their ends and below is what can happen. 
Pad the buffer beams well so the locomotive chassis cannot move. The foam inside the LGB/Aster wooden box will stop the cab from moving but inertia of the chassis will shunt back and forth. 
I did not have any damage when shipping my Garratt luckily but the foam inside the box chewed out because of the same type of movement. There is a good reason why Accucraft mummify their locomotives to a board.


















Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Grootspoor's price! Hooley dooley, that's like $5450.
I think it is such a nice locomotive he really would prefer keeping it.

Andrew


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I bought a K-28 from Charles, in great shape and it is one of my best runners....flawless!
I also have a White Pass, but have yet to run it....so the Jury is still out..
AND I finally got my hands on a KISS K-36.....been lusting for years on that one....runs flawlessly also, sounds great, runs great.
So I guess I, If I could afford them all I would buy all the Aster/LGB engines they offer.......

Bubba


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Manhart said:


> I own a WP&YR 73 Mikado (LGB 21832).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where does one get the replacement motor?

Bubba


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Some relative scale info as far as I can tell:

LGB/Aster Drakensberg NGG13 Garratt (prototype 2ft or 600mm gauge) is scaled 1:19
LGB/Aster Wurttemberg TSSD Mallet (prototype 750mm gauge) is scaled 1:18
LGB Saxonian Meyer (prototype 750mm gauge) is scaled approximately 1:20 
Accucraft Saxonian IIIK 0-6-2 (prototype 750mm gauge) is scaled 1:20.3 
Accucraft Baldwin NA Class 2-6-2 (prototype 2'6" or 762mm gauge) is scaled 1:19 

The unusually large scale of the LGB/Aster TSSD Mallet is obvious with the supplied little engineers which I assume are scaled 1:22.5. Although an excellent model it was not popular on release because of the large scale.

Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Bubba, Maxon motors HQ is in Switzerland but have outlets worldwide.
The Maxon motor upgrade may be similar to the upgrade that Brawa did on the analogue RhB G 4/5 2-8-0.
It also had a reduction belt drive. 

Andrew


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Garratt said:


> Some relative scale info as far as I can tell:
> 
> LGB/Aster Drakensberg NGG13 Garratt (prototype 750mm gauge) is scaled 1:22.5
> [...]
> ...


Andrew, the NGG13 Drakensberg Garratt is 1:19 scale, it is a 2ft prototype.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks for the correction Zubi, I felt it should have been bigger than what I specified but came across some last minute misinformation. I put the info up for reference for others and myself later as I tend to forget all the details as time goes by. Yes of course it is the same gauge as the slightly bigger ones in England.
The smaller narrow gauges do get some compromised scale allocations by the manufacturers.

Andrew


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Madstang said:


> I bought a K-28 from Charles, in great shape and it is one of my best runners....flawless!
> I also have a White Pass, but have yet to run it....so the Jury is still out..
> AND I finally got my hands on a KISS K-36.....been lusting for years on that one....runs flawlessly also, sounds great, runs great.
> So I guess I, If I could afford them all I would buy all the Aster/LGB engines they offer.......
> ...



Bubba
Still running strong and all these years. I remember our Aster/LGB collection that became the stepping stone to live steam both worthy experiences


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Andrew, yes, these models have often been misrepresented in terms of scale. So it is easy to make a mistake. But the scale is really not so important in the context of these models. They were all made to run well and look good with LGB rolling stock. They are not perfect scale models. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Charles said:


> Bubba
> Still running strong and all these years. I remember our Aster/LGB collection that became the stepping stone to live steam both worthy experiences


Best running engine I have! Still going strong!
I have switched to Airwire and newer Phoenix, monkied with the electronics to my liking, but that I did not have to do............but runs like a champ...AND a great deal when I bought it from you....Thanks

Bubba


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## bontrager (Apr 20, 2014)

Manhart said:


> Grootspoor in Holland sells one 20922 (Euro 3950):
> 
> http://www.grootspoor.com/lgb-20922-garratt-dampflok-ngg13-60-sound-limited-edition-1
> 
> ...



thank you for the info, I purchased the Garratt from Train-Li-USA thru Grootspoor. Received it about 2 weeks ago, have not run it as of yet.


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