# My interpretation of Ladder roadbed....



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I was certain I'd started a thread on this but cannot find it so I'll start a new one. Last summer I started collecting materials for my small starter loop of track. The only space I could justify was the unused garden to the right of the front porch. I first purchased some of the PVC trim board from my local Home Depot. Cutting the 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 into 1 1/2 in long blocks for spacers. I laid out the 8 foot sectional track I planned on using on a sheet of plywood and using blocks and clamps I managed to get both ends of the loop screwed together to fit my sectional track. I know this is backwards but it was what "I" was going to do. 







I 








did 
I manage to get the whole loop screwed together before the snow started falling in Western NY but we had a somewhat early winter that never really let up. The roadbed overwintered pretty well with a little bit of pulling out of the screws on the apex of the curves on the outside. 


















I moved the roadbed with some help several times this spring and summer. First to remove the sod to expand the garden and then again to till it and add in some topsoil. Then again later to put down weedblock and some black mulch. Sort of like owning a utility trailer that gets moved everytime you mow. (sigh)

Sa last week on Friday I took said trailer to the local ashpalt plant and got a load of CR1A crushed Limestone. This is all about 3/16 and smaller down to the fines. I have .87 tons loaded on the trailer hopefully to be unloaded tomorrow night. Last nights progress was to cut the PVC risers on the chop saw and start pounding them in place.








In this shot you can see the first post placed in the starter hole. This post was the toughest of the 9 I did last night. It was the only one I hit a buried rock on. Here you can also see the "gauge" I made to space the roadbed about foot away from the foundation of the house and keep the ladder at a constant width too. 









The track leaning against the house has been split jaw clamped togetherfor a few months now & leaning there. It is TDV or A-line track that I took the ties off from and replaced with Aristocrafts ties for this loop. The straight sections are mostly Aristocraft 8 foot sections and they lay on the front porch.









Here you see the tools and a PVC post. A 4 plus pound deadblow hammer on the bottom, a piece of the 1 1/4" ID PVC post simply cut off with no bevelling or angling at all. A Garden weeding tool that I used to poke a hole in the weedblock fabric below and also used as a drill to co-erce the rock below the first post to move. Lastly the hose to soften the dirt some since we've not had rain in about 4 weeks.

After the first post The rest of the posts simply needed a little water sprayed inside and around them to be able to pound them down. It was really dark by the time I was cleaning up and the bugs were chasing me indoors. I'll try to get shots of that tonight as I try to get the rest of the posts set tongiht. I may need to get some more PVC pipe though. My plan is to place some leftover roofing shingles cut down under the roadbed and then shovel the limestone ballast over the roadbed building up to the top and then lay track and top it iff with more ballast. I need to have the trailer empty by Sunday because I promised a lady I know that I'd help her move some furniture. So i will have that much completed by Saturday night at least.


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chas,

Looking good. Should go smoothly from here. Also, why not get the 'lady' you are helping down to help you shovel limestone!? It isn't THAT heavy!! (If you take small shovelfuls...) 

Expect that you will have your priorities in line and take pictures of your test trains before you go galavanting off in to the sunset being a good samaratin.


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Well last night was a bit more progress. Got home got the kids settled down from the day at Y-camp. Changed clothes and worked on the new camp grill to test it for our big camping trip. A geust showed up for Target Archery Practice but he really wanted to try Thrown Weapons. Since no one else showed up we worked on that until dinner. After dinner (off the new grill) We switched to Archery and then I got the tools out and pounded the remaining risers into place. Too dark for photos once I was done but I was sweating ito my eyes it was so hot out you probably would not have gotten good shots anyway. Wife left this morning for a 2 day business trip to Niagara Falls. Mom picks the kids up and takes them to dinner tonight. I'll be working late and then going to a business meeitng for the local medieval group I belong to. Then home to start screwing the ladder to the risers. Again until it gets too dark to work. Only 18 or 20 risers with 2 screws each should not be too bad. Levelling is going to be the tough part I think. Setting aside all night tomorrow to ballast the roadbed and hopefully lay tracks down. I'll have some time this weekend to work on it too. Still need to spend some time getting ready for the big camping trip to Pennsic Wars down near MIK in midwestern PA in a week and half. 2 weeks of camping in a big canvas tent with 12k of my closest friends all dresssed in medieval costumes. I need to get the tent out and set it up to check for storage damage and make sure all the parts are there and loaded on the trailer. LOT's left to do! It's all a balnce and a process....I can see the light at the end of the tunnel though ... and it IS a TRAIN! 

Chas


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok a little set back...this heat has been a little too much to take...no work over the last 2 nights on the layout. Heat indices in our area near or over 105 degrees. The pool has been calling my name but even that is like a warm bath compared to the normal temperatures. I now have a little more than 36 hours to clear the trailer of the gravel before needing it to help a friend move on Sunday. So no matter what tongiht something gets done on the layout. Leaving me tomorrow morning & evening to unload the trailer. I would like to only have to shovel that out ONCE not twice or three times. We'll see how much progress I make. I'd like to think i could be running trains by Sunday evening...so for now the glass is half full... 
Chas


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Looking good Chas, 

Couldn't you force last years defeated army to come shovel for you? I don't belong to the SCA but I am good friends with last years Mayor. I even took his drawing and turned it into a cad file for the medallions to be made. 

As for your separation on the curves. A better way might be to have the splice occur in between spacer blocks. Then use a longer (maybe 8') piece of the ladder material to splice them together. The longer length with screws along it would help take pressure off the screws right at the end. Sorry, I know its a fine time for suggestions like this.









Your work really does look nice. I cant wait to see more progress shots.


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy, 
Well I did not go to Pennsic last year so I'll be missing that medallion. 

MY solution to the separation was to replace the short splices of PT lumber with longer splices slightly custom cut and I used washers on the screws when I fastened them in place. I do like your suggestion of using short spliced over sections though! I'll try to remember that as I add to this! I've already picked up more PVC trim from Homer Despot. 

At times (like when reading some of Mark's posts on his rebuild I cannot help but think I am making this harder on myself than needs to be. Also I rembmer some of Jerry McC's saying essentially this is how I did it and why I did it this way. I do not neccesarily recommend it to anyone else though. In my case I committed to using sectional track. Then I committed to using full 12 foot lengths of trim board. 8 of them. So that determined that my DIAMETER was 8 foot with the setional curves and the length of the straight sections of this loop ended up being an odd size so the striaght pieces of track will need to be cut when I install them. Still to do. Fasten ladder to uprights while levelling. Lay out the repurposed shingles and ballast then lay the curves on cut the straights to size connect it all and then do final ballasting on the track. Sunday night is my goal to have a train running. 

Chas


----------



## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey Chas...things are looking great!! Looking forward to seeing more progress...and sorry for the heat. It's been hot here but not quite what most folks are experiencing. 

I haven't been able to get back outside to work since the camping trip. As always, a few work projects that need to be done yesterday...but hoping to get out tonight or tomorrow morning while it's still cool. 

Funny thing looking at your dead blow hammer...I have that same one...works great. However I'm having problems getting rid of the numbness in my forefinger and thumb from all the pounding. I guess I'm out of shape  

Again, looking good! 

Richard


----------



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Chas looking good! 
I switched to the same material for ladder bed after using the veranda (like trex) deck board. For my joints I used an 8" piece in the center and put two screws into each board, it holds well. The only other thing I did different was use an 8 pound hammer, but I have put in over a hundred stakes. Keep up the great work and keep us posted. 

Terry


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, so some more progress accomplished as of Saturday night. Spent Friday night screwing the ladder to the posts and levelling. It's not perfect bubble on my cheap level but close. Decided to spray point it at the last minute last night. Had 2 cans of gloss black so the white ladder got darker. Got up entirely too early this morning, moved the van and trailer into the front yard. Grabbed the shovel and started to lay the ballast down. I decided that since I had weed barrier down already that I did not need to lay the shingles down in this area. After making a mess with the shovel by itself I switched to an empty 5 galon bucket filled on the trailer and thenpouring the bucket over the ladder. I could get more of the ballast where I wanted it. So after an hour and half I discovered that I did not have enough gravel. I had planned on getting more gravel anyway so next week will be another trip to the asphalt plant. I still hope to get the track laid tomorrow evening. Even if I do not I've made a lot of progress...photos to follow. 

Chas


----------



## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey Chas...looking at your pictures I noticed the one where two siding pieces meet with the spacer block there is a little resistance (separation). Just a suggestion, but I took one of my siding pieces and cut 8" lengths so I could fasten it to both side pieces. This allowed me to put 2 screws on each side which seems to take the stress caused by the curve. Might give it a try. 












Looking forward to more progress reports and pictures!!


Richard


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard, Thanks for the suggestion. I did not have enough of the side pieces left over to use as splices but have tons of scrap 2x4 PT lumber and cut longer internal spacer blocks. I fussed over making them"curved" and in the end just gave up and screwed things together. I did get the next load of fines on Wednesday but have been madly trying to to get the "other trailer" packed for this camping trip. Of course after going so long without rain, NOW we get three days of rain. The grass is still dead but the weeds are growing. We go set up camp this weekend and return to work next week. I'll do my best to finish ballasting next week after work some evening. If I doesn't rain on me. 

Chas 


P.S. this shot is from 7 years ago.








The interstate is I79 heading north at the top of the photo to Erie and at the bottom to Pittsburgh. MIK (Allen) lives someplace to the northwest of this shot. At the top left you can just see the beginning of the parking it continues for a while north. There is also somecamping to the south and some more to the west from this photo. This shot was about 12,000 people. this year is the 40th anniversary so they expect closer to 15,000 people.


----------



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Woo hoo, Pennsic! I haven't been there, but I've heard a lot about it! I have a few SCA friends who have gone. 
I can see I'm going to have to check out the PVC trim at Home Depot to see how much that stuff costs. I'm assuming that you use it even at ground level to fasten the track down to? I was wondering how people did that, mine has always been temporary, just laid on the ground.


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

OH Crap! Amber thank you for reminding me that I've not added the newer progress photos to this thread yet! My plan is to loosely "wire" the tracks to the spacer blocks on the ladder when I lay the track down. I drove all my posts within a inch or so of the top of the ladder as it laid on the ground. Eyeballing level as I went. The night before I started pouring ballast I got out a piece of wood for a "gauge" and my level and used that across the loop and the level along the loop as well to screw the ladder to the risers and get it basically level. Now remember I noted that I'd tilled this soil a few months back and let it settle. Then I laid down weed barrier and black mulch. I moved a lot of the mulch out of the way where the ballast was going to go and then poured the ballast over the ladder with a bucket. Well I finished that way I started by shovelling it on at first that that was just making a mess. So essintially once I poured the ballast on I was about 8 inches to a foot above grade. So long story to answert a simple question my ladder is not just on the ground it is slightly raised. Even if it were on the ground it needs the posts to keep the ladder stable under the track. I'll get the new photos up tonight as we are supposed to be getting some rain finally. I know damn well that next week when I'm living in a tent at Pennsic it will either be really hot or really wet! It was really hot last weekend when we were setting up camp. Saturday night however it got really cold but stayed humid. A rough night for sleeping but not the worst. 

Chas


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok I gave up and downloaded the photos the hard way from the smart phone. Emailed them to myself. 

First photo shows the tools I used to level the ladder and fasten it to the risers.








That riser on the top near the house was teh one that simply would NOT budge any farther. I ended up cutting it off where it was and fastening to it.




















The next step was to grab a can of spray paint that I had (black) and spray the complete ladder to help hide it.








This shot was taken first thing Saturday morning before I started shovelling ballast out of the trailer.


I started on the East end....








Shovelling by hand was making a mess. I also pushed the mulch aside forming somewhat of a trench that the ballast set into. That's tough to see in any of these shots. Shortly after this shot was taken I sourced an empty 5 gallon bucket and started using that to "pour" the ballast in place. that was much "cleaner" in the long run.


Of course had I gotten a "little more" crushed limestone ...








..I would have gotten all the way around. I'd still have needed more once I got the track laid on top. Thus the trailer sets in the driveway with another load (.9 tons) of crusher fines awaiting my time to finsih this project ...errr process...

My thoughts were to get the bulk of the ballast down in between the ladder before I laid track and then water it down. Well what's been down finally got a good soaking this week when we finally got some rain. Generally the storms have been going north or south of us. Of course now that I will be gone tent camping for a week the weather report is for chance of thunderstorms every day! Both at home and where we will be camping. (sigh) Oh well a bad day camping is better thana good day at work or somehting like that...

So no progress in two weeks on the layout other than sourcing the Ballast but I feel better at elast getting the photos posted.


Chas


----------



## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Chas...things are really looking great!! I can't wait to see it all with the rail attached to the ladder. And I like the idea of ballasting within the ladder before laying the track. 

Have a great time camping...I'm wishing I could get one more trip in before the school year starts...but it's not going to happen. 

Richard


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Home from Pennsic. Sad. Camping was good several pretty heavy rain storms but we survived them all with a few minor leaks that were fixed with rubber grommets on the wall poles. No torubles with the car or trailer and no injuries to anyone we knew closely. Sharp pointy things were thrown and arrows were shot. Much money was spent on food and "other" goodies. Met some interesting new people and visited with folks I will only ever see at Pennsic. Much alcohol was consumed and Jimmy the brewer still makes a damn good chocolate mead. Got a good parking space early and nver left site so I did not get to visit with MIK. Came home to find nothing changed on the layout. The Ballast fairies did NOT visit. so at some point this week I still need to unload the traler ful of ballast and get some track laid. In between rain storms. 

Chas


----------



## rsmproductions (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey Chas,
Glad to hear the trip was a good one despite the weather issues. Not sure about the swords and arrow things...I like to stay away from those types of things







. Looking forward to seeing more completed when you get the chance. I can feel your pain about the ballast fairies...I'm having the same issue with my dirt fairies...can't seem to find them anywhere. Actually I'm trying to get ahead of the game with creating some musical soundtracks before a new teaching year begins so that has kind of cramped my railroad work...oh the fun of it all.

Richard


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Finally! Got home Friday night to find that the brakes had gone out on the big van...sigh. Cannot seem to keep up on car repairs lately. Wife got home and we went out to dinner as it started raining. No work accomplished Friday night. Got to bed reasonably Friday night and wife had family plans for us on Saturday. So I set my alarm for a normal workday (seems so wrong on a Saturday to be climbing out of bed at 6am. Grabbed a sandwich and a drink and hooked her Pilot up to the trailer and dragged it out front. Got the shovel and a 5 gallon bucket. I reballasted the complete roadbed. Then took the shovel and levelled down to the road bed.



































This shot shows the complete roadbed re-ballasted where it had settled (not much) and finished along with being levelled down to the top of the roadbed. The plant in the foreground is a "donor" squash the wife decided to keep. We think it is a butternut? There are several small ones started we will see how big they get. We are still getting blooms too.









At this point I'd laid the curves down on each end. I'm not sure if I'd said this but I am mixing and matching track brands at this point. Many years ago I worked at a hobby shop in the Buffalo NY area and we had the opportunity to buy from a whole saler some of the A2-Line or TDV brand of stainless track. This was before Aristocraft even thought of making stainless. It is now available through H&R trains in Florida. Anyhow me and another employee ended up with all the wholesaler had left at pennies on the dollar. The curves I used are equivalent to the approximately 8 foot diameter of LGB1600 series but I took the time to replace the tie strips (which were simulated concrete ties) with Aristocraft replacement tie strips. The striaghts I used for this were Aristocraft 8 foot flex track and some 3 foot sections of Aristo as well. This shot shows me cutting down the 3 foot sections to size. I clamped them up and cut them with a hacksaw. 









At first I though something was wrong as the tracks did not quite line up with the roaded. At this point I thought about splicing in the short cutoff section and running the Train-li bender over it. As I re-tightened the clamps and re-adjusted it mostly came back into line though so I did not do this in the end. I had made up the curves and clamped them months ago in ym eagerness. Because I had to move them seeral times the clamps had loosened over time. 









What I did change my mind on however was to provide for expansion now by splicing in two turnouts now. This loop is completely clamped together with Split Jaws so far. These turnouts are A2-Line/ TDV brand as well and are basically equivalent to the LGB 1600 series. You will note that the track is NOT a perfect fit to the roadbed. Because I chose to do this n stages the ladder did not stay in the perfect shape to the sectional track. I think had I done this "correctly" and formed the ladder up on site to the track I could have gotten closer. I'm not far off as it is and I'm not too worried about it. I also did not at this time fasten the track to the ladder. Choosing to allow the track to float for now. I feel I can go back and fasten later if I feel the need to. 









...and about 4 hours later I've got track down and connected and over ballasted. The wife is inside getting us packed up for the rest of the weekend's activities and after picking up the tools and such, I grabbed five empty 5 gallon buckets filled them with what little leftover ballast I had in the trailer. I then spread the very little bit that was left in the driveway and showered.We spent the rest of the day at a local lake with ehr family swimming takign boat rides adn riding her sister & brother-in-law's jet skis (FUN!)
I still need to clear the flangeways with a small brush before I run trains but when I had the time on Sunday it was pouring rain. We've been getting almost daily rain storms and while the lawn loves it (I mowed the front on Wednesday ngiht & it is looking like it needs it again) the tree out front is starting to lose some of it's leaves. A little too much heat stress? Not sure. I am hoping for an inaugural run this week! Trying to decide which train will be first?

Chas


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Well after a long weekend of travelling and family stuff I decided some "ME" time was in order. My oldest daughter and a friend that was sleeping over helped me get my very first LGB starter set out of mothballs in the garage. I had grabbed some wirtes adn soldered connectors to it and wired it to the track had some issues with the gauge of wire I selected fitting in the connectors on the LGB starter set transformer contacts. Fixed that issue and by then it was pretty dark out. Got the loco the two passenger cars and the additional 4 wheel gondola placed on the tracks. One of the coaches has had lights added. OF course typical of the older LGB stainz's the transformer had to be turned up to "slot train" speeds to get the lgihts to come on well but after one ballast related derailment, which was easily fixed, the train ran flawlessly. The next test will be with a live steam loco. Maybe tonight? Dreaming of expansion already too! not satisfied with running in circles already! The three girls were having fun chasing the train back and forth though and had it been earlier in the day they had plans to fill the gondola! 

Chas


----------



## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

Seems like that first run on new track is always exciting, eh, Chas?

Keep the photos coming.

Steve Seitel


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Well over the weekend I had a chance in between family obligatiosn and chores to run some trains. Grabbed a Bachmann saddle tanker that I'd gotten from someone used. Ran like a champ! The neighbors grandkids came running over at that point to watch the trains. Went into the workshop and grabbed the not quite completed conversion of Big Bird and Cookie Monster & Oscar the Grouch with an HLW tank car. not sure where my Lionel Thomas set went? The kids had not trashed the layout nor the loco at all. My girls were busy at that point doing other things and did not even know I was running trains. My youngest & I ran some more with her at the throttle until the darkness and moosquitoes chased us inside. I tried to fire up my Aristocraft Live steam 0-4-0 but cannot get it to take butane. I found the safety valve to look rusty from the factory too. Some work required there I geuss? As far the roadbed I'm happy so far. The ballast is settling some but so far is not un-attractive. We have had some good rain storms over the last week and more expected thru the week. I am sure that I will need to add ballast next spring. I have five 5 gallon buckets leftover but I am certain that won't be enough. I should not need to wrorry about it until spring though. I may get a load of ballast befroe the asphalt plant closes in the fall though. I am not sure when they open in the spring? So far I can not see any problems with the roadbed though. 

Chas


----------

