# Bad Economy ?



## SCSteamer (Jul 24, 2009)

Saw that an Aster Reno kit went for $3k last night (including shipping) on eBay. A couple of bidders had more than loose change burning a hole in their pocket !

Seems like selling prices are back on the rise. What do you think ?

SteveB


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Depends on what your selling, something rare like that, sure you get two big fish in whats really a very small pond (Live Steam (sorry guys but you are a small well healed group relative to all model rr-ing)) and the price is going to go high, but as for regular stuff I disagree strongly, I buy and sell on Ebay, and I have been trying to sell some very good condition O gauge stuff and some plastic model kits,and I'm barely breaking even. I often have to re-list items more than once, and when they sell its often only one bidder at my starting bid. 

Don't even get me cranked up about BIN pricing of train items, I am convinced BIN is going to destroy the model train market on Ebay, as of this AM there are 10,800 items listed under G Scale Trains, of those only 2,300 are actual auctions, 8,500 items, almost 80% of the things listed under that category are now BIN, and while some of that is parts and supplies, the actual train stuff listed there is usually asking over the MSRP, often way over, particularly for EPL stuff, but I have seen _ broken_ Lionel 0-6-0 crappers being listed for three figures! the last one I bought I paid $10 for at a show! So there is a collective lunacy of sorts going on right now on Ebay. 

I getting so fed up with it, I'm tempted to send some these sellers mail and call them on there lunacy, nothing cruel just point out that their prized rare Lionel 0-6-0 loco is really a junker and is worth less than the shipping charge!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't even get me cranked up about BIN pricing of train items 
I must abmit I never saw the point of selling a new item at BIN (Buy It Now) MSRP on an auction site. Seems like a complete contradiction.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Victor, I often email the seller with a link showing a regular dealer selling the item new for less. I get the "run once" stuff, and you can often see the wear in the pictures. 

Most replies are that they know what they are going, just hoping for someone to pay the high price.... 

Greg


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I rarely shop on ebay anymore for that very reason Greg. With a bit of searching, more often, than not, a better deal exists.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't shop Ebay. But earlier this year, I was desperate for the catwalks for my bridges, made by Garden Metal Models (very difficult to find). Paul Burch e-mailed me a tip that the owner of GMM was selling NEW catwalks at BIN. I bought 50 feet.


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## StevenJ (Apr 24, 2009)

Could also be stagflation (inflation plus stagnant economy). There has been a lot of stagnation but also a lot of increases in M1 or base money supply from the Federal Reserve. Yes I know, soo seemingly off topic but that money heads out somewhere into the economy which drives the prices of commodities up which eventually affects our precious trains as well! Also keep in mind, Aster Renos are kinda rare and I saw that auction too and linked to it in another post because a member was curious about the engine. It was also an unbuilt kit. Who knows, could be a variety of factors!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I never buy from e-bay way to pricy on most things sold there. I shop around and usually find much cheaper. Later RJD


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## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

eBay is not the best place to buy an engine


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

My stuff is still worth about 30c on the $1 as compared to 2008. 

It only takes 2 clowns with more money than brains to turn any auction into a circus.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

On average my fleet of engines are worth about the same as what I bought them for. Not including any of the new Accucrafts Ive bought, As any Accucraft looses value when you buy it. I have pretty much decided on not to buy any new locos, only second hand if I can. The only exception on that was my Caledonia as it was only 1 of 3 imported into the US in steam. Ive got great deals and have come across a bunch of rare and limited run things. As to rolling stock, mostly increased in value as I always bought the inventory sales mostly paid 25-35% of what they 2012 selling prices are. Though those days are long gone and I dont need any more rolling stock anyway. Well I could use more stock cars.


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By Kovacjr on 13 Aug 2012 04:50 PM 
On average my fleet of engines are worth about the same as what I bought them for. Not including any of the new Accucrafts Ive bought, As any Accucraft loses value when you buy it. ...

i can't seem to understand how many people view the logic of resale when it comes to things we use. in many other activities, play value is a pay-as-you-go commodity and nobody who partakes thinks twice about shelling out $50-$70 for a round of golf or a lift ticket without the prospect of ever seeing any of that money again. unless you buy a live steamer with no other intent than stashing it in the closet in hopes it will gain value, there is the enjoyment of seeing it run for a very small $ of water and fuel. the fact that something could be worth 100% of its initial value after providing years of enjoyment for me is certainly nice, but frankly not really something i dwell on.


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## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

There's some people who still have Unbuilt asters. Not sure why. Id at least have it built to look at


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have no desire to resell anything I have. I buy what I want because I want to run it not try to make an investment. Trains are not an investment, though you can maintain your investment by purchasing smartly. My reasoning is just to conserve and be able to buy more with the funds I have. Why buy a new loco when in just a year later certian manufacturer will offer it for a greatly reduced price dropping your value and hurting anyone that may need to sell it for other funding.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

More money than brains seeems harsh. Life is short and if they can afford it.... 

Dave


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## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

Spend the money, buy trains


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

I totally agree. I've never bought any hobby item with the intention of ever getting any money out of it again. If I later decide I no long want it and decide to sell it, I'm happy to get anything out of it so I can spend the money on something else that I want at that time. The value is in the enjoyment I get out of it. Sometimes the enjoyment is running it for someone else and hearing them say, "Wow, that sure is neat." Sure, they might just be trying to be nice, but I don't care, I take them at their word and enjoy the complement. 
Bob


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## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

You would think due to their limited quantity of some engines that they would gain value such as guns do. Maybe because there is a small portion of us who are into it and the supply/demand is not as much as other things such as guns


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## StevenJ (Apr 24, 2009)

Firearms are holding their value now for very different reasons than live steam engines. Iron is a rather cheap metal, it has more to do with the economy and uncertainty in politics and government firearm sales more than anything else. I think fine art would be a fairer comparison. This is a super niche hobby.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

High quality firearms have always held their value. Mainly because of the hand fitting of parts involved. I am not talking about cnc produced firearms. However, even on those, you can just about always get your money back out of them if they are well kept. It's like most anything. It's all about the condition the collectible is in at the time of sale. Firearms even have their own Blue Book, used as a guide to help value them.

And, it always helps to have a buyer that *WANTS* what you are selling. The live steam fraternity is so small that even a collectible engine will not always bring what it should because of this.


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## Newsted (May 29, 2012)

I find the way large scale products are sold to be insane! I live in the Chicago area and that is often considered a major market for most retailers. If you can find a hobby shop that even sells any large scale products; the retailer is asking MSRP. I always want to take them by the hand an explain that I can go online or pick up the phone and save some serious money. I like to see things in the flesh before I part with my money. There is not even a place that I know of in Northern Illinois where I could even see an Accucraft product. That BIN game on ebay is only going to hurt ebay in the end. I feel so bad when I think that some poor soul might actually pay those prices. The last locomotive that I purchased on ebay was sold as new in box. When I got it and started to lube the running gear; it was obvious that it had been done already. Since Bachmann does not do this prior to sale it was a safe bet that it had been out of the box. Guess what? It would only run in reverse! the Seller was great about it, and he paid for shipping and repair. I am getting to old to deal with this kind of grief. I have actually arrived at the point where when I think about adding a new "something" to my roster; I think of the job it will be to buy it, and I happily resign myself to enjoy what I have!


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bob in Kalamazoo on 14 Aug 2012 07:21 AM 

I totally agree. I've never bought any hobby item with the intention of ever getting any money out of it again. If I later decide I no long want it and decide to sell it, I'm happy to get anything out of it so I can spend the money on something else that I want at that time. The value is in the enjoyment I get out of it. Sometimes the enjoyment is running it for someone else and hearing them say, "Wow, that sure is neat." Sure, they might just be trying to be nice, but I don't care, I take them at their word and enjoy the complement. 
Bob

You said it, Bob. The real value is the enjoyment of running them, and sharing them with others. I run the crap out of everything I own. If I were a true collector, they would never come out of the box.

The real thrill is when civilians realize there is no electricity in the track, and really flip when I show them this...


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Posted By steamtom1 on 14 Aug 2012 08:56 AM 
Posted By Bob in Kalamazoo on 14 Aug 2012 07:21 AM 

I totally agree. I've never bought any hobby item with the intention of ever getting any money out of it again. If I later decide I no long want it and decide to sell it, I'm happy to get anything out of it so I can spend the money on something else that I want at that time. The value is in the enjoyment I get out of it. Sometimes the enjoyment is running it for someone else and hearing them say, "Wow, that sure is neat." Sure, they might just be trying to be nice, but I don't care, I take them at their word and enjoy the complement. 
Bob

You said it, Bob. The real value is the enjoyment of running them, and sharing them with others. I run the crap out of everything I own. If I were a true collector, they would never come out of the box.

The real thrill is when civilians realize there is no electricity in the track, and really flip when I show them this...











Great picture Tom. 
Bob


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I have been selling on eBay since 1998 and there have been many changes since then, most of them not good.
The main reason that you see more and more fixed price auctions vs regular style auctions is that it's much cheaper than regular auctions for the seller.
The insertion fee is only 50 cents for 30 days vs a rolling scale and only 7 days (you can get 10 days with another extra fee), and the final value fee is only about 9% vs 12.5% on auctions (also keep in mind that there is another 3% paypal fee on top of that).

If you sell a lot of things that is a huge savings, hence the vast increase in fixed price auctions.

Ebay can do all these things because they have Zero competition. Ebay buys up any competition when ever they see it, there should be a law against that (oh wait there is but nothing is done,lol)
The only other alternative to eBay is Amazon.com but they are much more expensive, starting at 15% fee's.

While not a great system it is the only viable one available at the moment to reach a large number of people with relative ease.
I use it as a means to an end. I try to keep my prices fair. I only sell new or near new items. I don't charge excessive shipping fee's (which are now also "taxed" by eBay which increases the costs even more).
I treat my customers as I would like to be treated, and once we have established a working relationship I offer them a discount on everything I sell if we deal directly passing the eBay fee savings onto them.

Ron


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