# New freight service...China to Europe



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd had not heard of the Eurasian Rail Bridge till today. It just opened...over its full length. A freight train was run from China to Europe over it for the first time...10,300 km. It took 16 days to make the trip on a new rail line that goes across Western China, over some humongous mountains into Kazakhstan, then across Russia, and into Europe. This beats shipping by container ship by 20 days. It sounds like it's one continuous rail line with one gauge...which would be new for that region.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

That's cool, Mike. I wonder what that will do for the seaports in Europe for goods shipped to the East coast of North America. Right now it's what? 30 days on the water, port to port? Might make it an option.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Got a link Mike? No pun intended................
Looks interesting.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Fascinating. 

Link one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Eurasian_Land_Bridge 

Link 2: *Beijing-Hamburg freight train tests Eurasian Land-Bridge * http://www.shippingonline.cn/news/newsContent.asp?id=4105 
Quote: "IN the latest test of the Eurasian Land-Bridge, also called the "New Silk Road" a freight train loaded with containers departed earlier this month on an epic Beijing-to-Hamburg journey. 

The 10,000-kilometre trip, through China, Mongolia along the Trans-Siberian Railroad, and then through to Belarus and Poland to Hamburg, will take under 20 days."


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting. It makes a 3000 mile (round trip) coal train look small in comparison. I wonder how many times they stop to do an air brake inspection? Over here in the US it's every 1500 miles for extended haul trains. How many crew changes too? 
http://www.yangtzebusinessservices....rasian-land-bridge-service-arrives-in-germany

Craig


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Just another way to get Chinese goods to western markets, quicker, which means cheaper. I guess we'll all have to lay down and let China make everything!


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Dan....you got a point...and I don't disagree. But being a capitalist, just my humble opinion here, the real solution ain't to keep the Chinese from getting ahead through a better railroad, it's stopping US law makers from putting shackles on US businesses getting ahead...and reversing the damage that's been done during the last 30 goodie-two-shoes years we've lived through. We can't control what the Chinese do...but we sure as heck can control what we do.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Just another way to get Chinese goods to western markets, quicker, which means cheaper 
Well, Western Europe maybe, but not North America. 

I did notice the comment about how many customs points the train goes through. I wonder how it is handled - sealed containers that are checked in and out?


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

It might not be cheaper, just faster. I hadn't thought about the customs. I would imagine that each country the train passes through would collect an import/export tarrif.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

And they arent done yet..
check this out:

Proposed global rail system map

From:
The Worldwide Strategic Importance of the Intercontinental Rail Corridor 

Scot


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

And do they expect us to run their stuff over here?

Another question then becomes who has jurisdiction for safety & operational & design regulations? 

That's part of the problem with the whole HSR here in the US, everyone says just use foreign equipment... If it was that easy don't you think Amtrak would have been doing it forever on the Corridor? I don't know of another country that requires the crash worthiness standards that our FRA does.

Look at a European piece of equipment compared to an American counterpart. Ours weigh more light, carry even more cargo, and have a much higher axle loading, plus a much wider loading gauge.

THEN factor in gauge. I am absolutely certain that the US roads won't ever change to another gauge... been there, done that. But what about foreign lines that run wider gauge? Are they going to be willing to give up the advantages to join this link? 

One advantage... Erie won't be shipping export engines to Baltimore & east coast ports anymore, lol. Plus returns for repairs would be easier. 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I couldn't agree more Mike.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

"And they arent done yet..
check this out:"

Proposed global rail system map







Is that what they meant when they talked about a "New World Order"?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jgallaway81 on 16 Jun 2011 07:13 PM 
And do they expect us to run their stuff over here?



The way things are going, in 40 years China will own the world..so sure, they will be able to run anything they want, anywhere they want.









Scot


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Remember Japan in the Sixties...making cheap imports...now they have a high standard of living and compete on more or less fair terms with the US...China's standard of living rises, costs rise, soon they charge as much per hour as us and everyone is happy...


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Proposed global rail system map 

At least it doesn't show the Atlantic Bridge, from Scotland to Nova Scotia via Iceland. [Yes, it has been proposed.] 

I don't know of another country that requires the crash worthiness standards that our FRA does. 
Yes, very strange. Virgin Trains use Italian-built high-speed (UK = 125mph) trains, and one was recently (year or so ago) sent into a ditch at 85 mph+. No-one was killed except and old lady who had a heart attack, and the coaches were un-squashed. The boss, Richard Branson, remarked they were built like a tank. 
Yet they don't meet US standards so we have very expensive Acela trains that make it tougher for Amtrak to make a profit. Do I smell something fishy?


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete....you're talking about needless regulatory shackles and damages that accrue from regulators...like the FRA. There's nothing fishy. 

It's just over zealousness. You have a regulatory agency (e.g. FRA, EPA, FDA, TSA, FHA, BLM, etc.)...and in it, people with the need to "improve" stuff. Their improvements are called regulations...and while taken one by one, seem sensible for the most part. Taken altogether, they smother innovation and business. 

For example, the commuter train/freight train headon in LA a few years ago. You've also probably heard about a landing gear collapsed during some landing. Somehow, when a landing gear fails in one out of 45000 cycles, it doesn't mean new requirements for pilots....unlike the new FRA rule which demands that all trains be equipped with a very expensive positive train control capability because one engineer screwed up. 

And another thing, I still don't understand why the FRA has jurisdiction on any RR that is within ONE STATE...but there are those that say because it pulls cars full of X that eventually are interchanged with RRs that take them over state lines that they somehow are infected with that interstate commerce bug. Just seems to me that regulators like a LOT to regulate...so they expand their regulations beyond common sense. 

And, that's why the US buys expensive Acela trains when probably Italian built, crash tested to 85 mph, Richard Bronson approved, passenger trains are not allowed.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I take a little offense Mike to your comments about the FRA. They where needed as the RR brought it on by failure to maintain there properties. The only thing the FRA does is to promote safety just the opposite as to what you think. I worked for the agency for 31 years and we brought about many good changes to the industry. Later RJD


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I hear ya RJ...and no offense intended...but I know what end of the FRA you worked in. None-the-less, the top end of the FRA, the bureaucratic end, publish new regulations all the time. I'm still of the opinion that while some look good at face value, their impact on our economy is frequently negative...some very negative. This sounds a bit harsh, but human life in this country DOES have a value...and courts establish that when there is negligence. Far too frequently, IMHO, the agencies and administrations of the government enact regulations that cost far in excess of their potential in savings...measured in dollars or in lives. They're in the line of the zero defect mantras...which have been proven over and over to be unaffordable and anti-competitive. 

Life is not without risk...but government regulators (not in the field enforcers/inspectors...I'm talking about the lawyers and lobbyists in our capital) keep passing regulations that reflect a value of infinity on human life. There is a cost to many regulations that far beyond what appears as a "good idea"...and it's measured in lost jobs, lost expansion opportunities, wasted capital, and lost time in a society where time is money. 

My remarks were not aimed at the thousands of honest, hard working folks in these administrations...nor are they meant to disparage the value of human life. But, excess regulation is one of the things that has made our country less competitive in the international marketplace...and the FRA has it's share of regulations that I'll bet could be challenged if different value metrics were applied. Personally, I think the one I remarked on, the positive train control regulation, fits that bill exactly. Billions and billions in capital expenditures are now required of our railroads that have operated safely (in the BIG SENSE) for at least the last 50 years.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I keep saying that the Chinese are where we were 100 years ago, as far as their business outlook is concerned. They don't have or care to regulate or make safe too many of their industries. It's a cycle that every world power goes through since the Egyptians, Greeks and Romans. The societies get to a point where self sustainabilty goes out the window. Partially intentional, partly unoticed. The tipping point results in a long slide toward a metomorphous, where the society becomes unrecognizable. I truly believe that Great Britain has long since morphed, and that we are at the tipping point.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Alaska-Canada rail connection done by 2015...that be a tad optimistic. 2020 might be more realistic.


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

" How many crew changes too? " 

If they are using Chinese work rules, probably one.


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

"stopping US law makers from putting shackles on US businesses getting ahead...and reversing the damage that's been done during the last 30 goodie-two-shoes years we've lived through. " 

B.S. 

Germany has a higher rate of unionized labor, and at least as many laws and regulatiions as we do. And there is no shortage of bureaucrats there. And yet, their ecionomy is on fire. Lowest unemployment in twenty years. Germany is duking it out with China to be the #1 exporter in the world (defined as money earned from exports). Germany has about 80 milllion people, and is about the size of Wisconscin. And France is very close behind them. Why? because they focused on jobs, jobs, jobs, and retraining workers who were displaced. We focused on cutting taxes for the rich, and slashing benefits for everyonie else. 

I hope you're a fast reader; I suspect this post won't last long...


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By astrayelmgod on 22 Jun 2011 11:36 PM 
"stopping US law makers from putting shackles on US businesses getting ahead...and reversing the damage that's been done during the last 30 goodie-two-shoes years we've lived through. " 

B.S. 

Germany has a higher rate of unionized labor, and at least as many laws and regulatiions as we do. And there is no shortage of bureaucrats there. And yet, their ecionomy is on fire. Lowest unemployment in twenty years. Germany is duking it out with China to be the #1 exporter in the world (defined as money earned from exports). Germany has about 80 milllion people, and is about the size of Wisconscin. And France is very close behind them. Why? because they focused on jobs, jobs, jobs, and retraining workers who were displaced. We focused on cutting taxes for the rich, and slashing benefits for everyonie else. 

I hope you're a fast reader; I suspect this post won't last long... 
Well...I like your remarks...and I certainly do NOT disagree with your main point..."focusing on jobs, jobs, jobs, and retraining workers who were displaced". Yeah...displaced...and that is the result (partially) of the shackles I was talking about. I'm not sure what Germany, the government, did to focus on jobs, jobs, jobs or retraining, but I'd sure like to hear about it. 

As for your remark about focusing on "cutting taxes for the rich"...well, go to Tax Rates by Country . You'll find the US has the highest corporate tax rates...and that has a direct bearing on hiring and where to invest...and that goes to the "last 30 goodie-two-shoes" remark I made. You might consider corporations to be "the rich"...but being an ordinary guy that owns a small amount stock in corporations (call it an investment)...who gets paid AFTER taxes are paid by the corporations...well, taxes not only take from the corporation, they take from me as well. I simply believe that PART of the equation in creating "jobs, jobs, jobs" has to do with allowing the corporations creating the "jobs, jobs, jobs" to have money to do the "retraining" needed...and, perhaps, their unions to do it.


As to the "slashing benefits for everyone"...well, that's what happens in a recession. Recession means the companies don't make a lotta money...so they lay off AND they reduce benefits. What else can be done? I'm just being realistic here. You call it "slashing"...I call it "reducing". One term is just more inflammatory. 


My remarks had NOTHING to do with unionized labor....and I have no idea whether Germany has as many laws and regulations as we do...but I really doubt it. And, I don't think it has relevance in this discussion except as a source of pro-job ideas. Of note, some of today's MOST successful business in the US are the major railroads...and they are all heavily unionized. So, having a high rate of unionization (which seems to be being criticized now) isn't a good indicator on profitability. One of the GOOD things unions bring to the table is safety regulations...and there is a negotiation based on them. And, it's often "more safety", less pay/less perks.


But, it's a negotiation...between two engaged parties. That IS NOT the same as government imposed regulations...cause there is NO negotiation involved. There's just a notice of a proposed rule change...promulgated by a government agency. A good idea between a union and a corporation DOES NOT NECESSARILY mean it's a good idea to make into a Federal or State Regulation. Perhaps if the feds and the states regulated less, there would be more union participation...and more focused "regulation" between unionized workers and companies...versus splatter gun government regulating...and THAT would mean fewer "shackles".


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The societies get to a point where self sustainabilty goes out the window. Partially intentional, partly unoticed. The tipping point results in a long slide toward a metomorphous, where the society becomes unrecognizable. I truly believe that Great Britain has long since morphed, and that we are at the tipping point 
Dan - awesome ! But you missed out the bit about what they morphed into - I'm still trying to puzzle it out?


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By astrayelmgod on 22 Jun 2011 11:36 PM 
"stopping US law makers from putting shackles on US businesses getting ahead...and reversing the damage that's been done during the last 30 goodie-two-shoes years we've lived through. " 

B.S. 

Germany has a higher rate of unionized labor, and at least as many laws and regulatiions as we do. And there is no shortage of bureaucrats there. And yet, their ecionomy is on fire. Lowest unemployment in twenty years. Germany is duking it out with China to be the #1 exporter in the world (defined as money earned from exports). Germany has about 80 milllion people, and is about the size of Wisconscin. And France is very close behind them. Why? because they focused on jobs, jobs, jobs, and retraining workers who were displaced. * We focused on cutting taxes for the rich, and slashing benefits for everyonie else. *

I hope you're a fast reader; I suspect this post won't last long...



Thank you, thank you, thank you. Someone with my point of view. The trickle down theory is just that, a theory. In reality the rich exploit the average working stiff in this country until they can't bleed them any more. Then our law makers make it easy for the wealthy to exploit the average working stiff in other countries. Not only that, but they make it easy for large corporations and the wealthy to avoid paying the reduced taxes they think only they deserve. Because, after all, less taxes for the wealthy means more money in their pockets, which in turn can be spent making jobs for us average people. *What a crock of SH*T.*


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 23 Jun 2011 12:57 AM 
Posted By astrayelmgod on 22 Jun 2011 11:36 PM 
"stopping US law makers from putting shackles on US businesses getting ahead...and reversing the damage that's been done during the last 30 goodie-two-shoes years we've lived through. " 

B.S. 

Germany has a higher rate of unionized labor, and at least as many laws and regulatiions as we do. And there is no shortage of bureaucrats there. And yet, their ecionomy is on fire. Lowest unemployment in twenty years. Germany is duking it out with China to be the #1 exporter in the world (defined as money earned from exports). Germany has about 80 milllion people, and is about the size of Wisconscin. And France is very close behind them. Why? because they focused on jobs, jobs, jobs, and retraining workers who were displaced. We focused on cutting taxes for the rich, and slashing benefits for everyonie else. 

I hope you're a fast reader; I suspect this post won't last long... 
Well...I like your remarks...and I certainly do NOT disagree with your main point..."focusing on jobs, jobs, jobs, and retraining workers who were displaced". Yeah...displaced...and that is the result (partially) of the shackles I was talking about. I'm not sure what Germany, the government, did to focus on jobs, jobs, jobs or retraining, but I'd sure like to hear about it. 

As for your remark about focusing on "cutting taxes for the rich"...well, go to Tax Rates by Country . You'll find the US has the highest corporate tax rates...and that has a direct bearing on hiring and where to invest...and that goes to the "last 30 goodie-two-shoes" remark I made. You might consider corporations to be "the rich"...but being an ordinary guy that owns a small amount stock in corporations (call it an investment)...who gets paid AFTER taxes are paid by the corporations...well, taxes not only take from the corporation, they take from me as well. I simply believe that PART of the equation in creating "jobs, jobs, jobs" has to do with allowing the corporations creating the "jobs, jobs, jobs" to have money to do the "retraining" needed...and, perhaps, their unions to do it.


As to the "slashing benefits for everyone"...well, that's what happens in a recession.[/b] Recession means the companies don't make a lotta money...so they lay off AND they reduce benefits. What else can be done? I'm just being realistic here. You call it "slashing"...I call it "reducing". One term is just more inflammatory. 


My remarks had NOTHING to do with unionized labor....and I have no idea whether Germany has as many laws and regulations as we do...but I really doubt it. And, I don't think it has relevance in this discussion except as a source of pro-job ideas. Of note, some of today's MOST successful business in the US are the major railroads...and they are all heavily unionized. So, having a high rate of unionization (which seems to be being criticized now) isn't a good indicator on profitability. One of the GOOD things unions bring to the table is safety regulations...and there is a negotiation based on them. And, it's often "more safety", less pay/less perks.


But, it's a negotiation...between two engaged parties. That IS NOT the same as government imposed regulations...cause there is NO negotiation involved. There's just a notice of a proposed rule change...promulgated by a government agency. A good idea between a union and a corporation DOES NOT NECESSARILY mean it's a good idea to make into a Federal or State Regulation. Perhaps if the feds and the states regulated less, there would be more union participation...and more focused "regulation" between unionized workers and companies...versus splatter gun government regulating...and THAT would mean fewer "shackles".



Mike, I agree with your general point. However UPS used the recession to stall and drastically reduce a pay raise for my son-in law. Reports are that UPS is making record profits.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, one of those Chinese locos made it somehow over the big water ! 


http://youtu.be/31yVXy98UNE 

Manfred


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