# Kitty Litter Ballast



## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

I'm very curious to know if anyone has used kitty litter for ballast outdoors. If you have, did you use cheap litter or the clumping kind? I want to float my track in ballast outdoors.


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

I believe the best thing to use is chicken grit.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Yes, of all the floating ballast, chicken grit seems to be the best. I think I read someone in the UK has successfully used litter and was curious if anyone has used it for outdoor track bed.


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

Too many cats in my area! LOL (sorry couldn't resist)


I used chicken grit in California. Here in Arkansas, it washes away in our heavy rains. I've used pea gravel since moving here and it works very well. Not the best look however need to use what works. I've tried putting the grit on top of it, however it still washes away.


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## todd55whit (Jan 2, 2008)

I have tried Kitty stuff. Not so good for my tates. I use stonedust. Cheap enough around here. I have lined the perimitter of the road bed with 3/8" pea stone to "hold in" the dust during heavy rains. Works well for me. I experimented alot. If you really want to know how something works try using some on a short "Test " section. If you don't like it try some thing else. I have done this a bunch of times.


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## trainman707 (Jan 3, 2008)

You are very correct Todd. It's all by experiments. I've used the grit and mixed some portland cement in with it and then sprinkled with water. That seems to hold things in place, however I can tell it's got the cement in it. Just didn't like the look so went back to pea gravel. The grit was so close to real ballast and I've loved the look. 


I have many grades and areas where runoff is extensive. I still have some washouts however can usually rake the gravel back in place.  Ah, the joys of railroading! 


Monte


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Crushed or broken rock is best, it's sharp corners lock together to give a stable foundation for your track. Fines... 1/8 -1/4" sized 
Chicken grit has oyster shells in it nowadays, looks funny but the birds love it. 
Were you serious about clumping litter? First rain or plant watering and that stuff will draw itself into roundish clumps and sticks like glue, it won't break up to look like it did before. 

There have been several threads on this, 'Fines' have different names in different areas, read up. Google search works better than our in house wonder.... 
I use broken rock I find on my property, it isn't as sticky as crusher fines, but my supply is free. 
Avoid round river rocks, that stuff is quick to move! 

Happy Rails, 
John


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Kitty litter is clay, so not good for ballast.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, it absorbs moisture, changes size, breaks down... universally not recommended. 

Greg


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Truthman.... In Arizona, many of us use 1/4-3/8's minus decomposed granite with a lot of dust. I've used it for 12 years and it works very well for "floating" the track yet it will firm up after it gets wet and hold the track nicely. 

Depending on the part of the country you're in.... you may not be able to find it.

I tried chicken grit and was not happy with it....


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate; 

I used kitty litter for ballast once on an S gauge layout because it was fairly inexpensive, BUT I would never use it outdoors, for the same reasons that were already expressed above. Oddly enough, the 18 pound cat that also lived in the house never bothered the litter on my layout. Crusher fines or crusher "dust" are a better choice. Some roofing supply centers may also stock the fine stone used to coat shingles. This is another good choice, but probably more expensive than crusher fines. 

My outdoor layout has been gone for about four years now, but when I built it, I was still able to buy granite "starter" chicken grit without any oyster shell fragments in it. I mixed the granite grit with dry vinyl patching cement - 3 parts granite to one part patching cement. After the ballast was spread the way I wanted it, I misted it with the garden hose. This allowed it to set and lock, but not so hard that it could not be broken up for track modifications. I don't know whether granite only chicken grit is still sold, but you could check via telephone with a local farm supply center. It used to be available in 50 pound bags. The vinyl patching cement was sold in 5 pound buckets. 

Hope this helps. 
David Meashey


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm considering using limestone screenings.. $17/ton


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I used limestone in my ballast. It works excellent for me.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I use Johnny Cat kitty litter all the time, but I'm INDOORS and building using traditional indoor layout technics. DO NOT use it outdoors as it will absorbe any moisture and get mushy under constant moisture exposure and breakdown into gunk. Chicken Grit, Decomposed Granite, Stone Dust or even fine grade (3/8" max) Crushed Gravel is a way better choice for the Great Outdoors. I used the fine grade crushed gravel available in 70lb bags from Home Despot on my outdoor layout, I floated my track on the ballast and it worked very well for my climate (no snow).


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Here's a video of my layout with limestone screenings... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKs9DZJ-ZM0&list=UUXuNg97xIOrBappFTpQbTzQ&index=1&feature=plcp


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

it's holding up very well


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I've used the grit and mixed some portland cement in with it and then sprinkled with water 
Here in MD, the cement doesn't help. Our heavy rains wash ballast away - don't ask me where it goes. (We put about 4 wheelbarrows-full back onto rog's RGSEast last Fall ! ) Here's the effect after a couple of years - lots of ballast where the cement held it in place, and none underneath!


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I use a product called "Bridge Topping" for ballast. It is crushed and bagged in 50# and 100# sacks at a local gravel company, "Manufacturers Minerals" in Renton, WA. They do not have a website. 
This image shows the rock on and what it looks like. http://rldhobbies.com/ProductImages/svrr/SVRRSSTRACK.jpg
Now the puzzling question I've tried to answer, what is this stuff made for in a commercial use? Manufacturers Minerals makes a bunch of different smaller sized rock, when I first when into the office I asked them if they had any small rock less then 1/8" or 1/16". The gal at the front desk proceeded to pull out 5 drawers of sample rocks, that they crush on site. She then asked me what I wanted it for, and when I said a model railroad she pointed me towards the Bridge Topping. 

Note- not my photo, stole it from sunset valley, but the rock is the same Bridge Topping product. Edit to remove photo, add it as link.


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

New guy, still in research mode, here, again. I saw a video where someone used roofing shingles. His idea was to get the "gritty" look of ballast under the tracks without the hassle of ballast. What think you old-timers of this? 
Ken Silva 
Phoenix, AZ


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By avlisk on 29 Apr 2012 09:49 AM 
New guy, still in research mode, here, again. I saw a video where someone used roofing shingles. His idea was to get the "gritty" look of ballast under the tracks without the hassle of ballast. What think you old-timers of this? 
Ken Silva 
Phoenix, AZ 

I didn't do that, but considered it. I think it would be great to hide the wood grain of the structure I had, but I think I would still need to use loose ballast between it and the track/ties for the same reason I put ballast on in the first place. I firmly believe the track should totally float because, as I have explained in other threads, I found that as the track expanded and contracted due to temperature changes, the ties caught on imperfections in the structure and expansion caused kinks in the track causing minor derailments and contraction caused sections of the track to seperate leading to dumping a $4,000 engine 3 to 4 feet to the ground. The ballast rocks do interlock for stabiity, but not so much so as the track cannot shift as necessary to allow the rail to expand and contract. 

Using roof shingles is a cosmetic detail, but I think adding ballast over the shingles would provide something like roller bearings for the track to move as necessary to remain straight and intact.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Listen to Semper.. it's exactly what happens. Everyone is first tempted to "lock" the rails and track in place, thus believing they can overcome the basic physics of how things change size with heat. 

After more than 100 years, the prototype railroads still use ballast... the idea is that the ballast holds the track in RELATIVE position... allowing it to expand and contract, but not letting it "migrate", or catch in one spot and move in another just like Semper says. 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Who ya callin' old? 

Realistic still looks realistic while 'gritty under ties' looks like gritty under ties.... 

What is acceptable to you? What level of detail matters to you? It matters not what I think.... but as an Older old timer, I'm shifting to ease of use.... I lifted my original tri-oval ballast floated track and am plunking it down on thick planks. There's just too much nature to fight! My health is tanking and I just wanna run some trains. Once I beat back my demons I can go 'model railroading' and senic my planks with ballast. 

I think when my track was in ballast it ran cooler and didn't kink, I see under your signature that you live in the Valley of the Singed, running on black shingles can cause you more problems with expansion kinks.... I'm SE of Tucson.... It's your Railroad, do what you like. 

I connect each section of track to the last and none to the planks....

Happy Rails 
John


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I had a pallet of broken kitty litter bags I got from work - was going to make a driveway out of it. 

It worked great. 

Until it rained. Then it became an ooey, gooey, slimy MESS! 

Needless to say: Not recommended... 

Robert


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I actually _did_ try kitty litter mixed with pea gravel to see if the kitty litter would act like a mortar and hold the gravel together like proper ballast. _It didn't! _Oh, it started out okay but it eventually broke completely down and had to be replaced with poultry grit. _Don't use it!!!_


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I used it to "dress" my first line which was built on pressure treated wood planks set in the ground or on "fills" I didn't use much but it didnt do much eitherway. it did tend to make the track dirty with mud thrown up by the wheels onto the car underbody if the track was wet. 

I feel the float fine crushed stone the way to go at this point! It takes some maintenance but it is easy to do.


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## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

I've not used kitty litter but have used a product sold to absorb spills of oil on garage floors. I found bags of this at Home Depot when I lived in California. 

This material is made from a rock known as diatomite, a siliceous rock mined in California and which also forms oil reservoirs in the subsurface in the Bakersfield area. It comes in a very light gray color but concrete stain can be used to color the ballast. It has great aborsption capabilities, hence the use on garage floors. 

One word of caution, being siliceous you are best to avoid breathing the fine dust as much as possible. It will not break down in the rain such as kitty litter is prone to do.


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