# Hello! New guy here with a queston.



## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Hello! Thought this site was great so I joined up. I'm new to garden railroading and very interested in it. I've been doing alot of research online. 

I have a brand new Bachmann Connie. I was watching some videos on YouTube of Connies and stumbled on this one. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfZJ9dzmGX8

This locomotive is amazing! By that I mean the sound and smoke sync. How is the smoke sync to the sound? And do you recommend the sound and engine controller he is using. I'm very confused on the type of controls I should use for my locomotive.... battery r/c, DCC, etc. So many choices!!! 


Thanks guys! Glad to be aboard!


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Papa Perk, 
I've been "hanging" here for a year or so, but still consider myself a beginner...especially when you see some of the amazing layouts some of the folks here have. 
To your question: Power and control? From my perspective having a friend with a huge 18 year old outdoor layout, RC & battery is the only way to go. especially if you live in a freeze climate. I'm sure some of the folks here will advocate track power, but having worked with both, the battery systems seem like a no brainer. We have used large NIMH packs that can get pricey (over $100) or go with cordless drill packs that can be had for less than $30. Size of loco and amount of lights,etc will determine how long a run you can get on a given battery pack. To give you an idea, we run an LGB Forney with sound and a couple of lights on a small (cheap) drill pack and get typically 2 hours of non-stop run time. I've heard of 6 hour runs on some of the larger packs. If the layout is large and wraps around your property, having to run back to a transformer everytime you need to stop or adjust, or fix a derailment is a pain. Keeping a large, "outdoor," track clean with good continuity can also be a pain. Now some of the folks here might argue "use good quality stainless steel track (very expensive), do a good job of laying your track with ALL (and I mean every joint) good joints and your layout "should" be trouble free. Having a little controller in your pocket that enables you to stop, go , speed up, slow down, ring the crossing bells, blow the whistle, while walking around your outdoor layout is just "sweet". Notice one of the trains slowing down, just pop in a fresh pack and away you go. We've been using RSC systems and have been very happy, but there are others....particularly the new Aristocraft Revolution that looks interesting but I have no experience with it. 
And as I contemplate a new outdoor layout myself, I will offer one other bit of advise: Tracks that are on the ground are a magnet for leaves, twigs, debri, etc. Elevating your roadbed even just a few inches will do much for keeping a track free of "stuff" that causes derailments.......you are building an outdoor layout....aren't you?? If you're building indoor, most of what I just said obviously does not apply! 
Good luck and welcome 
Don 
A


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome! Yes, the Bachmann Connie is a great engine! You mention that the smoke is "in sync" with the sound? That sounds as if it has a DCC unit installed. I know there has been some incredible "sync'd" smoke videos from Raymond. I think he used an MTH smoke unit. I use r/c battery with RCS and rarely use the smoke feature so I can't help you there. Again, welcome to garden railroading and enjoy!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The video text states that it is an MTH unit using a standard MTH TIU and track power. 

One thing that Don stated that is not quite true is he contrasted track power with battery, with battery being superior because he has a remote control in his pocket, and track power you have to go running back to a transformer when there is a problem. 

Well, I have track power and have a wireless remote that lets me, with a push of a button, stop my loco, stop all locos, or actually turn off all track power. In terms of remote control functions, track power systems have much more capability, since they are a system, rather than a connection between a single remote and a single loco. 

So read more, ask questions. I would advise to read a bit more, rather than ask all the questions first. I read for 9 years, and I contribute a lot, but am I an expert? Nope, not yet. 

Regards, Greg


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg you're too modest! I for one greatly value your input to these discussions. Perhaps you could share more about the pros & cons of a track powered wireless system. I understand they are quite versatile regarding programing "automated" functions and controlling multiple trains on the same track. The remaining issues as I see them would be 1 expense, 2 level of difficulty programing, and 3, we still have all the dirty track connectivity problems IE poor connections... track to track splices, etc...not insurmountable obviously, but certainly a consideration for newbies.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh, can of worms opening here... 

A huge question with many people violently in one camp of another. 

I will tell you know, the "answer" is much more complex than it appears... there are a lot of factors. 

I will give you my best advice: you need to determine what kind of trains you will run, how many at once and how long the trains are, if you have grades, etc. 

If you do a good job of knowing "where you want to go", then the answers are easy. 

Trying to just make an analysis of what is better will be nothing but frustrating... it's your personal requirements that will drive the decision... 

For you it might be battery, for me, it's track power. 

my best thoughts are on my site, so rather that repeating over and over, read my Beginner's FAQ's, if you read the first few pages "under" this section, you will see my best writing on track vs battery, etc. 

http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/beginners-faqs-mainmenu-49 

Regards, Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Greg. There is no one system that is universally ideal. 


I run mainly track power. I have one engine (an Accucraft K-28) that is set up with batteries and Airwire. I did that so that I could take it to other layouts that aren't track powered. I think that sometime I'll set up a 1:29 engine as well. I've been in this hobby for over 25 years. I have too many engines to completely go over to battery power.


With track power you can walk around your layout and control your trains. I have a Bridgewerks transformer with a remote unit. I also have a couple of the older Aristo TEs (train engineer), this also permits you remote control of the trains. I prefer the Bridgewerks system. This is mainly because the TEs come with momentum. The amount of momentum can be programed, but you can never get rid of it entirely.


Keeping your track clean isn't all that difficult. It takes me a minute or so to go around my layout with a green Scotch Brite pad on the end of a drywall sanding pole. I have about 150' of track, including passing sidings. No matter what power you use you are still going to have to remove nature's debris from the track. 


Chuck N


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I use all three types of power, including live steam. I have an Aristo TE setup for the track power. Transformer is in the garage(with TE hooked to it) and Malibu wire runs it out to the track. . The TE receiver I just carry around with me. You can also use it with a Rx in a battery car or a locomotive. It's pretty simple. THe new Aristo Revolution is nice also, smaller Rx is a big plus. RCS has a nice controller also, mostly used for battery power. My favorite, since I just run them round and round, is a battery back under the loco held on with wide velcro and and on/off switch. I just find the right size battery pack for a particular locomotive. I also have some trailing battery cars, one with Del's critter control which works well. Simpler is better for me.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I also use track power--in the past I used track power and wireless remote, now I'm using DCC with wireless throttle.

Like everyone says, it depends on your situation. For me batteries were never an attractive option, and track power works really well for me, but batteries make sense for many people. 


Think about how many locos you want to run, and also how you want to store them. For example, I keep all the locos in a train shed, which rolls right out onto the track. There's 8 locos in there, and no way to hook each to a charging plug. I did not want to be ferrying locos in and out of the house all the time, or having a row of chargers and battery packs taking up space in our small house.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Like a lot of the others, I am track powered. Mostly because I have a lot of locomotives and don't care for trailing battery cars. Personal opinion. I started with brass track, moved to stainless steel. Control moved from fixed position power packs to the Aristo TE to new revolution TE. 

You ask 10 guys how to do large scale trains and you're likely to get 10 different answers!!


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By PapaPerk on 07 Nov 2009 06:14 AM 
Hello! Thought this site was great so I joined up. 





Absolutely correct!!.. Welcome.


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Thank you everyone for all the input! Yes I agree the control choices vary from person to person. I'm leaning towards battery because I will be running Fn3 equipment. And not many locos. However like many of you I'm still not crazy about the actual batteries. Hmmm..... it was best said that there is no one perfect system. 

I would like the option to power the track in the traditional manner as well (cab control). That way I can run a stock engine. Of course I would have to isolate wyes, etc. 

Thanks for the warm welcome!


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## AzRob (Sep 14, 2009)

You could always ditch the worries about track vs. battery and go all live steam!


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

It would appear that if you want to use both battery and track, the aristo revolution TE is worth exploring. The REVO has its limitiations, but my experience with it has been very positive. Easy to install, set up and run. Depending on your locomotive, you will likely need to add a battery/track switch.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Also you can use the QSI card with battery or with track power, and there are two different throttles. The advantage of QSI is you get sound built in, with no need to muddle around with an add-on sound board. You can also use it with DCC


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Yes I agree! Acutally I'm very intrested in live steam and that's my eventual goal. So battery power is probably my best bet. I love live steam coupled with RC servos radio. It's just really cool to give the engine throttle and see and hear the response! But also electric steamers with sound and smoke are also really impressive. Especially engines like the one I posted the link too.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Papa, 
As you like live steam locos and are likely to use stick type radios to control them, you can use those same radios to also control battery R/C locos. 
The latest 2.4 GHz radios have phenomenal range and provide digital proportional control for unequalled smoothness of operation. 
Prices for the radios start from as low as US$45 for a 6 channel computer programmable radio. ESC's start from about US$70. All ESC's are compatible with the popular sound systems.


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Tony,

Yes I agree that would be most likely the best route for me. Only one control device would be required. A few questions for you if you have a minute. And no wiring required for the track. Just like the real thing.


1. I've read about the Beltrol system. It is my understanding you plug the Beltrol's leads into the 6 channel RF receiver of the radio. Is this correct? Can you have more than 6 functions with a 6 channel radio? In other words can you program Beltrol to do additional commands by moving channel sticks 2 times, 3 times, 1 time hold.... etc. 


2. If I read everything correctly you can run multiple engines by simply changing channels on the transmitter to another loco frequency. Does other locos remain at last command? Is it possible to double head two locos?

Thank you for your time!


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Papa, my experience with a conventional (plane, boat, car) type of 6 channel rc unit was not good. Every time the train went behind an obstruction (like the corner of the house, tunnel, mountain, etc) and lost radio signal, it would do strange things and or stop. We switched to Tony's RCS system and have been very pleased......just installed another in a LGB "Rugen" last night. 
Don


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Sailbode, 

I think this is the system that Tony is talking about. Uses 2.4 gig 6 channel RC radios. Yes I agree the older radios would have transmission issues if blocked by obstacles. 

http://www.beltrol-rc.com/index.php


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

If you would like to add the option of automated station stops and statistical control of your track triggered whistle, in addition to superb proportional speed control with momentum, then you might want to check out the 2.4GHZ Enhanced RailBoss.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey PapaPerk,

Glad to hear you like the engine. That is one I installed MTH DCS Protosound 2 for a gentleman in England. The smoke and sound sync is controlled via an optical reader reading striped flywheel to get accurate chuff sound and smoke sync. 

And yes I do recommend the sound&control he's using as that is what I run. You can see my website for more videos of DCS Protosound in action.

There are a lot of things to decide on which way to go. There is a lot of prior discussion on the pros and cons to track & power type and if you spend some time doing searches you should find some of them.

If you have any questions feel free to email me directly from my website.


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought this video that Terry made came out really good as well. Should note that he's built this layout in a fairly short period of time, he's done a great job and made a lot of progress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQhM...re=channel 


Raymond


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## pilot4747 (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi everybody. I am the guy with the aformentioned Connie over in England. Thanks for looking and enjoying the vid. I had nothing before March this year and now run approx 280ft of track. The system is the MYH DCS system. Constant 18v track power and remote handheld via an interface unit.
(TIU)
I came across Raymonds web page and I was hooked. In my opinion, the best sound system out there with the added realism of synced smoke. The system is available over here but as far as help and experience of it are concerned, you are pretty much on your own. My `Connie` conversion was done by Raymond to an exceptionally high standard and I can recommend his work to anybody considering an MTH conversion. 

Despite a 6000mile round trip, my Connie worked perfectly straight out of the box on its return to England. Good luck with the layout
regards Terry pilot4747


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Raymond and Terry, 

Thanks for your input! Great locomotive! The realism is amazing with the sync smoke and sound. It truly looks and sounds real! Great! 

Now if I can figure out how to use the MYH sound and smoke with a radio control system and batteries! Hahaha! 

Thanks again!


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

hmmmm thats the future for me,,,,, 

will it fit in a k28 and sound correct,,,, 

terry,, thats a long trip in a microlite,,, i hope you took plenty of sandwitches!!! 

davey b


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey there PapaPerk,

You can run DCS under battery power with the DCS remote just like we do under track power. On my Modifications page, under Power / Digital Control there is a page under the battery heading there that shows a battery install/conversion I did for our local G scale club president. I converted his MTH GS-4 to run on battery and installed the TIU in a heavyweight baggage car. After seeing the TIU could be installed in a heavyweight, I don't think there are really too many limits on running DCS under battery. I've even seen TIUs installed in 1:32 scale box cars.

The technology with the digital electronics we have nowadays really brings these engines alive!


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Davey,

I haven't opened a K-28 yet but I'm pretty certain there aren't issues with installing it in one. As far as sounding correct I guess you mean by whistle type? I have a number of steam sound file samples on my site you can check out to see if anything sounds good/right to your ear. See the DCS Installs page and see the sound sample file table at the bottom.


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

PapaPerk, 

I forgot to mention how the system works. The wireless handheld remote communicates with the TIU and the TIU adds a carrier signal to track. In a battery power configuration, the TIU outputs are simply run to the engine power input wires (instead of the track) as would be done with any other engine converted to battery. So your remote would communicate with the TIU wirelessly giving access to all the features and functions. Remote and TIU can be purchased as a pair for ~$240 Oh and the TIU can be setup in a mode that allows unlimited amperage so you could in theory run an unlimited number of engines with the single TIU. 

Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, That's a real nice layout that you have and I esp. like the lights that you have across from the station! Must look pretty cool at night??!!

Raymond, you did a nice DCS conversion on that engine!! Sounds & smokes just great..


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## pilot4747 (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi Chuck,
sorry this reply has taken so long. I just wanted to thank you for the nice comments. The lights were bought at a local meet recently and I got 35yds of them for $15 brand new. They are LED so no problems outside and very low voltage. I figured like you said, they would look pretty good at night, which I think they do. The next conversion that Raymond is doing for me is the Aristo `Mallet`. Now that should really make some serious noise.
cheers Chuck

Terry


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Terry, A Mallet? Your neighborhood won't be the same after Raymond gets done with your Mallet!! Superloud sound & supersmoke..


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Heres 2 Ray did fo me.......


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

And NO... im not the big guy in the chair, im behind the camera for all those who emailed me..........


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Let us see what guy you are!!! for sure!!!!! Hah LOL The Regal Fellas this could get scary so don't have yer children in the room viewing this!!!!


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)




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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Nick,
Someone is having a good snooze behind your layout. Sound asleep........

Mark


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm one that finds value in running both track and battery power. I run all diesel power on my layout. I would not think of running the larger engines under battery power, although I initially did try. It did not work very well. The track power for larger engines and battery power for the smaller ones seems to be a good balance for my layout. I do have to say though, that track power is much, much simpler to maintain and operate than battery. For both I use the older Aristo 27mhz TE's. They still work, so hard to justify upgrading to the new revolution or something else. If they ever break, maybe then.


My main issue with battery power is it's a hassle to always be recharging batteries. I have about a 300 foot walk from my layout to the nearest AC power, so it seems I'm doing nothing but carrying cars back and forth to the charging station. I have 6 battery cars that are always needing charged. 


My Brass track, about 1000 feet, is very easy to maintain and just needs a weekly cleaning from my track crew using two of the Aristo track cleaning cars. I use an RS-3 engine running on battery power pulling the cleaning cars. Once it gets done, the big stuff comes out and runs all day on track power. That's what I like best about track power.... 


If I had it to do over gain, I would have done more research when I was starting out 5 years ago and made better track section connections. Over time, it's all been resolved, but initially it was a pain in the butt. Split Jaw or the new Aristo rail clamps have completely resolved this problem. More time spent on the little things up front, ends up saving big time later on when we should be enjoying running our trains.

I think everyone's comments on here, helps new people just starting out in the hobby to make the right decisions early on......Mark


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