# NCE/QSI for USAT - link to info please



## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

This sounded like the very best technology (IMHO) when it was 1st brought to my attention more than a year ago. All I run is USAT engines (GP9's, F's, SD40-2's and NW2's) so this is of great interest to me. The latest info link would be welcome. 
Thanks

Dave


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

Go to Greg Elmassian's site & look around.. 

http://www.elmassian.com/ 

BulletBob


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

As far as I can tell it's dead in the water--it was promised and promised and then nothing. Greg probably knows more.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Now Air Wire is coming with a USA plug and play board. It may be here first.


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Hi Dave,
I sent an email to Tony of Tonys Train Exchange (QSI) asking: 
"could you please inform me as to whether or not you will be producing a new board with more current handling and magnetic reed sound triggers?"
Tony replied to my email about two weeks ago stating:
"Yes about 3-4 months and the economy is delaying things."
I hope things will work out, I am waiting with my finger crossed.









Steve


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

So! Still nothing then. I was hearing that 'someone' had a replacement board for each USAT engine and that the new board had a correct P&P sound card. An NCE throttle was recommended. 

Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dave, someone DOES have a PNP board for each engine, it's AirWire by CVP products. 

You can ADD a sound card to this Airwire card, like a Phoenix. 

NCE makes a Airwire-compatible throttle that controls them. 

This is not the same as a QSI, and more expensive, because you buy the Airwire AND a $200 sound card. 

The QSI is coming, of course, but it has been coming for several years. I have 2 prototypes at my house. 

The economy has indeed delayed things, but there will be additional features and capabilities in the new QSI hardware. 

The fact that Tony's is out of QSI boards (and they are a hot seller) should tell you something. 

Sort of like Aristo being out of old TE stuff until the Revo came in. 

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Are the Air Wire boards on the street.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg

Looks like I'm going to have to wait until at least then spring before I invest in a huge change. Ok by me. I have about 6 months of scenery to do down here and a number of other projects on other layouts.

My experience with Digitrax at the local club has been anything but fun. It actually turned away potential members. Zemo is way to expensive for what you actually get - and menu driven cell phone technology is the very last thing a real engine driver needs. Can you imagine starting and operating your car with a menu? Soon though, my goal will be to install a simple, reliable, effective decoder/sound board into each USAT and run trains.

At least the concept of replacing the USAT directly with a new board (same connections) and adding a plug-in sound module sounds excellent. Way, way past due actually. Having a controller that I could hand to a digital virgin and have them use it right away without committing a poorly written 64 page manual to memory would also be just fine.

Anyway, please God, just keep the techie nerds away from this project.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've tried every DCC system that I know about (except some really cheap junk for HO only). 

The Digitrax is not intuitive, just looks like a big remote for a TV with no clue what the buttons do. 
For me the Zimo is soft of overkill, too much info I don't want and abbreviations for functions instead of words (and the abbreviated words are German!) (but the new system looks like it will improve) 

You could use the QSI's and do the "quick and dirty" install, power the USAT board from the QSI, hook the QSI to the track pickups. This can be done with no soldering right now. Later you can connect the lights to the QSI. (otherwise they work like DC). 

The quick and dirty install takes about 5 minutes of time once you open the shell, and plugs into the existing harness. 

I hand my NCE controller to 5 year olds all the time and they run it just fine. (and I have the full fetured one, not the simple one with a knob and direction and horn and bell only) 

On 4th of July, a couple brought their 2 boys, 6 and 8. At 4pm they were given contollers. At 8 pm they were throwing turnouts and swapping mainlines. 

Not one derailment or crash. 

The were given speed limits on their trains, and kept to them. 

I'm happy with my decision. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s "Can you imagine starting and operating your car with a menu? " you have not driven a new BMW lately. Voice control, push on off, and menus for everything. That is ALREADY here!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have done several of my USAT locos with the down and dirty install for now as I was tired of waiting for QSI to get there new board out for the USAT locos. Simple as Greg said. At least they are not shelf queens. Later RJD


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Airwire direct drop in for Usa diesels will be here well before Spring. Design and layout is finished, production is commencing with only supplier component delivery as the primary factor. Finished drop in decoders were shown at The BTS in JUNE. National Garden event in Tacoma is the next goal. 
Regarding comparisons, we have been through this before, many times: 
The Phoenix sound board for Airwire is NOT 200.00, more like 160.00 The Airwire decoder Includes the radio receiver, extra cost for QSI. (100.00) 

Pricing gets within 40.00 or 50.00 . The new Airwire manual even provides instructions for track power, for those who still do not trust battery technology. 

For the few extra bucks, Airwire gives you far more current output capability, effectively double the QSI. A very good thing for USA diesels. The Airwire drop in will have plug in installation and support for ALL lighting functions, including number boards, and 2 color led, QSI supports none of this. 
The Phoenix will also be plug and play installation, no soldering required, no tools required except the screw driver to take the loco shell off. While the QSI has decent sound and is very adjustable,if you are not DCC knowledgeable,I feel for you, it will take a very long time to learn how to adjust the sounds for good performance. Phoenix software is far more intuitive and easier for a beginner . 
Bottom line is all reference manuals, and most all sound files for QSI are HO derivative. Manual is written for HO folks. The major inconvenience of needing to disconnect the gwire receiver to program is a hassle , plain and simple. 

I have no dog in this fight, will readily supply either system, finished custom program of QSI system this afternoon-going into an Accucraft loco. Works great. But the advanced users and experienced folks on MLS need to present fair facts and knowledge to the other users on this forum. That way each can make their own choices. Everyone seeks validation their own choice is a good one, and usually it is. That is why extensive experience with many systems is valuable, and the reason this forum is valuable too.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

I just asked the folks at CVP about running the AirWire drop-ins - with AirWire throttles - using a constant track power rather than having me invest nearly $1000.00 in batteries and chargers thyat I don't need because I run indoors. They suggested I need a 10 amp bridge cct in front of the drop-ins. These are available at my nearest electronics pars shop but can someone offer a bit more information on this? Has anyone actually done this?


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Dave, thanks to Greg, I was able to do one of his down and dirty installs in a boxcar and set up the boxcar with batteries, a QSI/G-wire, and fused, charger jack set up in the doorway of a Bachmann D&RG boxcar!! THEN with the help of Paul Norton's ovgrs site the link is below, you just do the MU plug thingy out the back of any USA engine, and then connect your fully equipped boxcar, and away you go. I have done this on my PA/PB setup, and also a Heritage U.P. new 70 MAC. See my you tube to the pa/pb run on my outdoor layout. If I can be of help privately email me. But if I can do it anybody can!!. You can hook up the battery/QSI/G-wire to any Aristo engine and with the little 20 min of altering the inside of a USA engine you can hook up your fully setup system to it and away you go!! Regal 

http://www.youtube.com/user/7485jerry 

http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

David, I think what they are telling you is to use a 10 amp full wave bridge rectifier so no matter which way you put the loco on the rails, you can guarantee positive and negative into the CVP board. 

(decoders made for track power already have this in them, you can see the 4 diodes that make a full wave bridge on most decoders) 

10 amps and 50 volts would be what I recommend... they have 4 leads, + and - (those go to the plus and minus of the CVP) and 2 terminals with a "~" on them, hook those two to the track pickups, there is no polarity there, either to either rail. 

Radio shack has a 25 amp, 50v one for $3.49, no 10 amp ones. part number 276-1185 

Regards, Greg


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

""David, I think what they are telling you is to use a 10 amp full wave bridge rectifier so no matter which way you put the loco on the rails, you can guarantee positive and negative into the CVP board""

Ok thanks. I knew what they were but it never occurred to me why they had to be there. It's a great deal less money than a full load of batteries that I'm sure would be great outside in the dirt and dust etc. I'm sure going to give it a try right away and hope that they fill out the USAT engine inventory ASAP. I really need the NW2 card because they turned into my SW1200's. I figured on using the GP9 boards with GP9 sound because I'm pretty sure they were the same in both prototypes but I might as well wait for the easy installation.

Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What sound decoders are you going to buy to complement the drop in motor controllers? 

Regards, Greg


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, as I recall the USAT ready drop-in receivers are fitted out to work with Phoenix Sound boards so I'll dig deeper in my wallet and buy them. 8 - 10 tops. The Soundtraxx cards that I have in my SD40-2's and GP9's are very nice but will be sold off to defray some costs. Is there a much better solution?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can use basically any DCC sound board. There's very few sound only boards now, and none that equal the Phoenix in my opinion, if it's in your budget, go for it.. 

Greg


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok I'm back. I spent the last few months on non train related stuff but I'm still interested in the latest from AirWire. Do they have the drop in receiver/decoder for the NW2's and SD40-2's yet? That's all that's holding me up. Also still want to know about the other manufacturer that was going to build receiver/decoders - with sound - that were far less expensive than the QSI/Phoenix combination. Latest news anyone?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Call Tony's Trains for latest schedule on the QSI for the USAT, they have not released any of the new "Titan" LS decoders yet. 

Dunno about the Airwire, this thread was on the QSI for the USAT locos, not the Airwire. 

There is no QSI/Phoenix combination, I think you mean Airwire and Phoenix. 

Why not start a new thread for the different question? 

I'm hoping to eventually put news on the new QSI, but who knows when?? 

Greg


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