# My take on the NGRC 2012



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

I would like to throw a whole bunch of kudos to Joe Lienau and the entire NGRC gang for putting the show together. It was one of the best run shows I've attended... Super helpful, friendly people and if there were any "issues", they were not evident on the surface at all. 

The hotel exhibition hall staff was very, very easy to work with as well. 

Even though the attendance may have been a bit low it was a Great Show Guys and Gals...


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan's comments above are overly simplistic. It is true everything was smooth. It is true the hotel staff was pleasant and helpful. However, when a vendor travels thousands of miles in support of the event and pays premium prices for tables and booths in the vendor hall, then discovers the registered attendance is , as Stan said" a little low" that is very disconcerting. Attendance was way more than a little low . It was a LOT low. It was even ridiculous for a national event. There was not much buzz around this event. Poor economy, or committee problems, who knows? . Of course , not all factors can be blamed on committee. However, my local Chicago customer base that did attend said the location was considered poor, because of expense and location- sort of out of the way .I cannot say if this is true, however the hotel rates certainly did discourage attendance. 
A vendor needs to have some reasonable assurance of success, even small success to support such an undertaking. Many of these vendors this year will not be back. There was a lot of talk in the hall amongst them. There was already a greatly reduced manufacturer presence. If this continues, the national will become just a glorified regional even with some layout tours. 
The other factor i found surprising was that after paying thousands for tables or booths, and traveling thousands of miles , again at great expense, in support of this event, it was apparently too much to ask to get even a ticket for a free ice cream at the ice cream social . I am not suggesting all events should be free to vendors, but a little co operation would go a long way . 
Back in 2004-5 there was a start of a movement to form a vendor association. Nothing happened, then, but if vendors did this, perhaps some more fair treatment could come into play. If vendors stayed away, there would be no vendor hall.,So, Say, setting table rates based on preregistered attendance would force the organizers to really work to get folks in the door in order to raise and justify the rates they charge for space. I know hall rates are set in advance , but the committees needs to recognize there are many factors in play here.


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

I did spend 3 days at the "Chicago NGRC" and I found it very well organized.... It was located 27 miles West of O'Hare airport... a 36 minute car drive..... 

The on site hotel rate was $127 per nite per room....... But I know of many vendors/RRers who stayed off site (4 blocks to 5 miles away) & spent $50 to $109 per nite.....per room.... 

and picked up a Free motel cold Breakfast or better yet a Free motel Hot Breakfast. Hotel/motel choices were plentiful nearby IF you wanted to save $$$.... 

There were lots of RR Events going on Concurrently...... Layout Tours.... Seminars.... On & off site Dining.... Evening meets.... Mega Center hall booths.... and local 

shopping and RRer side trips...... & outdoor live steam... The offered RR Convention options were a Superb mix of nice choices.... Vendors did have a few mornings free.... 

My biggest "low note" surprise was the Highway Rioad construction in front of the Pheasant Run Resort.... After a day I found the short cuts easily..... 

The vendor hall customer crowd may have been light as stated.... 50% of the time.... but the Saturday Public day crowd did not help fill the hall much more.... 

Meeting vendors for the 1st time face to face who I have been buying from for 3 years was fully rewarding. In total, the Chicago RR host staff did all they could 

to make a fine pure G RR convention the Best they could...... I liked it... I'm sure some vendors liked it too... I'd rather not have NO G Convention. 

Dennis M from GBay, WI 

PS: The 3 day RR G Convention cost me an honest $600.... That was my first pure G Convention or pure G Train Show.... I'll be in Denver next.... God willing....


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Polaris1 on 23 Aug 2012 10:46 AM 
I did spend 3 days at the "Chicago NGRC" and I found it very well organized.... It was located 27 miles West of O'Hare airport... a 36 minute car drive..... 

The on site hotel rate was $127 per nite per room....... But I know of many vendors/RRers who stayed off site (4 blocks to 5 miles away) & spent $50 to $109 per nite.....per room.... 

and picked up a Free motel cold Breakfast or better yet a Free motel Hot Breakfast. Hotel/motel choices were plentiful nearby IF you wanted to save $$$.... 


AND GUESS WHAT... those room nights attendees do not pick up at the convention hotel cause the overall cost of the other space and service to go up for the sponsors of the convention if they don't make the minimums. The rates given to the organizers for space for meeting rooms, display space, and "comp" rooms are all based on the number of "room nights" the convention hotel expects to get. For the 1992 NGRC in Reston VA I had to guarantee 650 room nights to the Hyatt to get the dealer hall and six meeting rooms for clinics. Otherwise it would have cost us $8,000... which would have had to be passed on in higher registration.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

While I can see the problems with meeting minimums, having a high priced hotel just makes problems. More than one person has mentioned to me how expensive the hotel was. 

I spoke to some other vendors and they were also perturbed at the short times the vendor hall was open and other costs that seemed unreasonably high. Was there a $50 a person dinner too? 

The bottom line is that it was not well attended and the vendors were not happy. So, blaming attendees for going to a less expensive hotel is somewhat backwards logic to me, having the right mix of ingredients fro success falls on the shoulders of the organizers, not the attendees or vendors. 

How can it be otherwise? 

Greg


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## B.A. (Jan 13, 2008)

[No message]


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

To me it sounds like you want assurances that you will make money...it not only costs YOU to go to it but the people that go also have expenses, then in this ecconomy, with most that are in the hobby are older, with less money to spend, and the rising cost of the OVER inflated prices for G scale items, the idea that you want a garantee that people will attend and spend...is a little ridiculous.

I would think that the declining attendance would signal to you and the OTHER vendors that the hobby is in decline, and unless something happens you will be forced to go by the wayside of the other vendors that have closed their dorrs.

I recently went to Caboose Hobbies in Denver, and their pricing for items was MSRP...No ONE in their right mind pays that, unless they do not know any better! $850 for a Bachmann 2-6-6-2 is totally out of line when they can be had on Ebay and with online vendors for $400 and change, this is what is killing the hobby inflated pricing...I for one if burnt, and have been, am very leary of pricing when i go to purchase something, unless I know it is a good deal! 
AND I will NEVER pay MSRP it is a ridiculous #! Like the sticker price on a car...NO ONE pays the sticker price!

I understand that vendors have to make money, but you cannot get blood out of a turnip when this economy dictates that money is tight and the same item can be had for a cheaper price elsewhere! 
UNLESS you can compete with the lower pricing YOU WILL close your doors! 

Besides the conventions and shows are put on EVERY year, getting to be old hat, same old same old, like going to a ZOO how many times can you go and see the same thing over and over again..maybe a break in the action is what the hobby needs to inject RE-NEWED interset?

Functions like Marty Cozads' are WAAAY more interesting and fiun then any convention I have ever been to...maybe that is the way things need to move, smaller closer nit get to gethers, where items on the tables are better priced deals.

IMHO
Bubba


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I have to agree with Stan. The Clubs in Chicago were very well organized. But, I am not saying everything was perfect for vendors. The attendance was low, those their were not buying big ticket items. LGB parts were HOT. We sold out of Bachman Rail Trucks and shipped two more when we got home. I took 6 Aristo Mallets and brought 6 home.


I believe the economy is a big part of the problems in the hobby. However the Cincinnati Committee claims they were nearly sold out of space when they took our deposit for six spaces.


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

From the information available on their respective websites, it looks like the Chicago vendor hall was about 30,000 sf and the Cincinnatti vendor hall is about 15,000 sf... 

Bert


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

$127 a night isn't bad if it comes with breakfast, cable and fridge. Distance from airport sounds like it was an issue. 
lao


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

While I didnt make it this year, I can understand the lackluster sales. From watching LGB on ebay and talking with Dave Watts, the state of G scale has been in a bit of a decline since LGB's demise and our economy went haywire. Its better now, but has a long way to go. Have worked dealer side of shows, abliet in a smaller scale, a poor show sales wise always ended up getting cut or put on our endagered show list. Just look at the large G scale retailers that are now missing in the current garden railways, or have cut way back. Watts is a shell of what it was just 10 years ago, but thankfully they are still in business. For waht its worth, I thank the dealers for putting up with high prices for fuel, rooms and poor sales to pay for it. Thier time is priceless, but without thier continuned operation, the hobby will go further down the drain. What was Hartlands big announcement? I havent found anybody talking about it yet. Mike


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike..... It was the MTA Trolley... Sold out at the factory only stock is at the dealers... Very nice looking piece....


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