# IS this FAIR?????



## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

I understood no political or religios posts????? http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx
How do you see that: 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The referenced thread is informative of what the MLS member will be doing... there is nothing political in it nor religious. Although it mentions a specific religion, it does not espouse that religion to the exclusion of any other.

If you were to be taking a long sabatical from the MLS fora to hit the campaign trail either FOR or AGAINST some political agency/person then there would be nothing wrong with stating that fact, but if you were to include specific references meant to promote the political agenda you espouse, then that would invite rebuttal from those that dissagree with you on any points you make. That discussion will very quickly lead to anger and the loss of friendships.

As to whether one SHOULD post ones vacation plans/sabatical tour/etc. outside of the Large Scale world is maybe somewhat questionable, but we are supposedly "friends" here and it is sometimes nice to know what our friends are doing with the rest of their lives, so it is tolerated to some extent.

Of course this is NOT "my" forum/website/whatever, and I don't make the rules, nor do I have any influence over what rules are strictly enforced and which ones are relaxed from time to time. This is just "MY" take on the situation.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

To me the big difference is how well you know the poster, if it was a club memeber it is fine. 
If its a stranger to you then... 
Just like a post of a death, more for informational so he can help if need be. 
I just glance at it and go on. 
Its a whole lot better than those 20 page your all wrong threads.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yes


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## gtrainman (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, I've been a member of MLS since about the start. The post is **surely not** train related!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

At least he did refer to it as OT.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a HUGE difference between that post and the one that was recently locked.. 
if you dont understand the difference, im not sure I can explain it to you!  

I am in favor of not allowing the first kind, at all, ever, but the second kind is perfectly fine.. 
I think most understand the difference.. 

Scot


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I am currently on Roatan Island Honduras after we completed our Humanitarian visit to Guatemala.

Sorry that I offended some people.

I have re-read the original post and find it hard to imagine how it could be offensive.

Yes, I did reference it as Off Topic.

I have seen in the past that there are other posters who have referenced their faith. That is all I was doing. I just thought it might be of interest to some people.


It was not my intention to offend some of you. 

It is just like my Nephew who is a lawyer. I happened to forward a political cartoon which was very carefully identified in the subject line. 

He opened it and was offended. He called me and told me to never send something so offensive again.

My reply was that he would not have been offended had he simply hit the delete key when he saw the subject title.

So once again, if I offended you, then your sensitivities are too acute. 


Rarely do I ever get such a response to train related questions!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I sure don't see a problem with your post, JB.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm amazed alot of what "offendeds" people. what ever happen with forgiving someone instead of giving up totally on the relationship?? 
Did someone do something SO bad that you have to leave or reject them in light of years of companionship?? 

Thats why I have NOT left MLS..


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I wasn't offended by your post: I simply ignored it, as it was labeled off topic. On the other hand, this kind of thing bothers me: Posted By jbwilcox on 04 May 2012 09:45 PM 
So once again, if I offended you, then your sensitivities are too acute. 


This is a classic non-apology: it effectively says to the offended person "I'm really sorry, sorry you're such a jerk." 

I was raised to believe that if someone tells me they're offended, I should stop offending them. I could try to figure out why, and then maybe gain an enlarged understanding of other people, or I could conclude that the person was hypersensitive and simply not talk to that person anymore, or avoid that subject. But the bottom line was always simple: stop offending people. The non-apology ends up being more insulting.


As far as I can tell, the original poster was annoyed that a religious post was allowed; it may be that he feels that SOME kinds of religious posts are allowed and not others, and that's not fair. The subject line suggests that, but the OP should have been more clear about the nature of his objection. 


For what it's worth, I'm not a religious person, though I was raised as one, and I think it's hard for the religious to understand how coercive religious expression can seem. Religion appears, to devout believers, entirely good and benign, a gift to be shared, while to the non-religious it often appears like compulsion and intimidation. The post in question, from jbwilcox, did not seem like either compulsion or intimidation to me. But if I was a religious person who had been censored by the moderators, I might feel differently.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I find nothing wrong with the Post.

I find it great to know that some of our friends are traveling all over the globe to help people in need.

It sort of goes along with the what MLS is about. People Helping People. 


Carry on JB.... It is great to have such a Friend. 

JJ


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

To ALL 

To suggest that one should not be able to "state facts" as part of a post because someone [undefined] might possibly be offended is the worst kind of censorship. I was raised that individuals had the right to state their views regardless if others disagreed; that is the fundamental concept of free speech. I know many people and some have widely differing views on a variety of subjects including religion and politics. I believe they are entitled to their views and right to express them as long as I am not told that I am either required to agree or subjected to abusive harangues. 

What this also implies is that someone who chooses to be an agnostic or atheist should not be able to ban the comments that indicate belief in religion [in general] or even belonging to a particular group. 

Actually, I find "political correctness" and extreme efforts to "not offend" people and groups EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE in itself. One who cannot accept public expression of divergent views is guilty of the worst kind of intolerance. 

IF the PC find this offensive, I am not apologizing.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty some people just like to find something to argue about no matter what it is.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

"Actually, I find "political correctness" and extreme efforts to "not offend" people and groups EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE in itself. One who cannot accept public expression of divergent views is guilty of the worst kind of intolerance. 
IF the PC find this offensive, I am not apologizing."

Well said Jim.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Everyone has, of course, the right to be as offensive as they please. It's odd, though, to find being offensive promoted as a virtue. There are other virtues besides being obnoxiously opinionated.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

OK... Lownote.. 

This is NOT a personal attack, regardless of how you take it. 

I am offended that my Virginia taxes are paying for the server that hosts your PERSONAL web site that is unrelated to your academic responsibilities at George Mason University, a Virginia state institution. I consider that an inappropriate use of a state funded IT resource. In most places that personal use is specifically prohibited by either policy, regulation, or law. 

I object to ANYONE who does this, you are just a clearly obvious example based on your signature block.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Nothing offends me anymore, or surprises me over here, train related or not, if you don't like something don't read it, delete it, ignore it, generally go about your business. and go run a train or sumtin. Regal


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally, as far as I can see there are just way too many individuals today, with the mindset of "looking to be offended," and with human nature being what it is they are sure to find it. So go ahead and get it over with, "swoon" because your delicate sensibilities have been savaged, then pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back to living, there's railroad work to be done.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

This is the public forum, is it not? This is where people post about their "not necessarily train related" stuff, is it not? I understand, no politics, no religious rants. T would think that talking about your travels would be acceptable, even if it is missionary humanitary work. That's not about religion, that's about people.


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

As commentator Robert D. Raeford says "We have become The United States of the Offended". 
I'm sure we're not alone. 
Ralph


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Amber 

Thank You!!!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 05 May 2012 08:21 AM 
OK... Lownote.. 

This is NOT a personal attack, regardless of how you take it. 

I am offended that my Virginia taxes are paying for the server that hosts your PERSONAL web site that is unrelated to your academic responsibilities at George Mason University, a Virginia state institution. I consider that an inappropriate use of a state funded IT resource. In most places that personal use is specifically prohibited by either policy, regulation, or law. 

I object to ANYONE who does this, you are just a clearly obvious example based on your signature block. 


Wow jim--well, I'm sorry you're offended. But not knowing any of the details, you might consider thinking twice before being offended. Or not--it's your choice.
For what it's worth, I was not and am not offended by the orignal post


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

DETAILS... I don't need no stinkin' details. 

If the Commonwealth of Virginia says that using state funded IT resources is OK... then I am offended by the policy allowing what I consider inappropriate use of MY money. 

Guess I need to investigate this [as a former computer security policy wonk in some level of government service]. If it is true... maybe I can raise a stink and screw it up for EVERYBODY. 

Oh yeah... I just remembered.. Virginia allows retired faculty [like my EX] to retain an email account on an academic institution's mail system indefinitely.


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

Well, I know that I am not without some blame on my post, guess I should have left some stuff out, but I was just curious how folks would deal with our hobby when "the bottom gives out". I for one will not abandon my hobby, but it sure seems some folks pop in here with a bone to pick or an ax to grind just waiting for the moment to pop up and chop away at anyone.

I think this thread too should be locked down - it's starting to get personal









Now why don't we all go and play trains now and share this wonderful hobby we have and leave the other baggage behind









I'm going to put off the yard work outside and word on my "yard" inside








It's the weekend, let's have fun with trains









Rocky


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Amen, Rocky..... Amen....


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Stan 

I don't think we need to lock the thread... I am off my soap box. I am not trying to sell anything other than a freedom to disagree. Unfortunately, I probably chose a "real life" example that was too specific for some folks.


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

as one wanders around a cemetery and spots a marker with the date of death as 6 Jun 44 ...... one realizes, throughout the world, there are markers that indicate that person served in the military (and some made the ultimate sacrifice) and that service has allowed US to have our own opinion about everything and not having to worry about expressing that opinion. 

.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Having just now read the original post, I think you've all missed the point.

Yes, this website's rules say we should avoid religious and/or political comments, but that needn't be taken as only meaning ANY comment in regard to those subjects. Most of us understand that others have differing views, and, as grown-ups, we can accept a comment in passing. What IS offensive is actually "proselytizing" - pushing one's particular opinion on others. Proselytizing is announcing to the group that my church is better than your church. Or any church is better than no church. Or my political group is "Americans" and yours is not.

I was raised to belong to a particular church, but I no longer care to hear about that church or anyone else's. I disagree strongly with churches that will refuse charity to people unless they agree to embrace their particular set of beliefs. That's proselytizing, and it contradicts the teachings of any religion. But if a church group spends their own money to travel to some hellhole to aid people who have no other resources, that's not proselytizing, that's human kindness. And that's alright with me. I probably wouldn't mind if they left a few pamphlets behind, as long as they don't force their beliefs on those who are desperate for their help.

We need to make the distinction between religion and proselytising, politics and propaganda.

JackM

Now back to my trains, which are idling in the backyard.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I used to get offended, now I'm just amused. ;-)


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I have re-read both of my posts. And I admit my last comment on the second post was very snarky. I should not have made that comment and for that, I do apologize.

I think the original post would probably have been acceptable had I not mentioned the name of the church. However, I am very proud of the humanitarian work that we do throughout the world, not just in the US.

Our group had 129 people, all of whom paid their own way and many of whom in addition donated thousands of dollars of dental equipment when the clinic was finished.

There were Medical Doctors, Dentists, Orthodontists, Oral Surgeons, Anestheologists, Xray, lab, and many assistants and other clerical personnel who made this trip happen.

We treated 735 Guatamalan young men and women with absolutely no discussion of cost.

Some of these kids had 25 fillings, 3 extractions, 2 root canals and bridges done in a single day. There were at least 40 dental chairs set up in the large room that we used.

In addition, we took thousands of dollars of humanitarian items, blankets, food, you name it and we had it.

We visited individual houses, many who had absolutely nothing and gave each of them about 100 dollars of food items in addition to the other things. 



We visited a Children's Cancer Center where we dressed up as Clowns, etc and passed out items to the children.

We visited a large orphanage and did the same.

We often started work at 0630 and finished after 10 PM. NEver did I hear a discouraging word, a complaint or a cross comment. 

It was my first trip biut was the greatest thing I have ever had the opportunity to be involved in.

Once again, I am sorry I mentioned the name of the Church, but I am proud to be a member, regardless to comments you may hear in the media. I hope to have 6000 dollars so I can do another trip in November.

John


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's a very gracious statement. Sounds like you did great work you have every reason to be proud of.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So, the topic is to be train related, eh... 

How does one separate trains from the economy? 
Or remove trains from your daily lives? 

The world around us will not go away while we play trains in the back yard. WE do this as a distraction from reality, and day to day troubles we want to leave behind, So leave 'em behind if you need to, not here you say. That's great but, they will not go away...Not talking over them will not make them go away either... 

So if someone cares enough to ask or offer ideas to help others in life, because we all know it has been a rough roller coaster ride in recent years, why does he get his head chewed off!!?? When one has info that might help others, we have 2 choices, 1- we can offer ideas, 2 - or not say anything... 

Where does this lead,... well we saw one 1- chew off heads for info that might help. 
But it is weird If the person doesn't offer their knowledge to others, and they later find out they could have shared this knowledge and did not, then once again heads get chewed...WHY??? 

There seems to be a real problem here, damned if you and damned if you don't......... 

OUR economy is on a unsustainable course like it or not. All thru out history as far back as one cares to accept or remember, Empires have fallen, for one reason, spending too much money. If your dare check before biting again, every economy that has reached the point of "barrowing" 40% of what it spent eventually failed as an economy. No More EMPIRE... 

EVERY SINGLE ONE!!!! 

This countries economy (USA) is now being used as a great experiment. Never before has an economy survived past this 40% threshold. WE now live in a country that barrows 43% of what it spends.... 43% of what it spends.... How is that sustainable and getting better...????? WE can hide or run from this fact!! BUT, it will not change. 

Inflation is not what is reported in the daily news. WE are told 1 1/2 % , but if you dig deeper you will find reports of 8%, 10%, 11% ( last Dec-2011) even up to 20% .. 
What will happen when this amount grows ever larger??? 

How does this affect trains - look at the prices you all complain of again...............! Why do you think they have gone up so much? And Chinese employees want a better living, they want higher wages... ( Gee I wonder where they got that idea from... ) 

And you want to talk about trains only - If you can't afford food and water, - you will not have the energy to go out and play in the yard with your trains... 

OR,... the time,.... you will only be concerned with food and water... 

If inflation continues to climb, or worse - goes into hyper - inflation, what will be next? 

If the government keeps printing more dollars to pay bills it can't, what will you do!! the dollar will grow weaker still................... 

So Please do not tell me this is not related to Trains!!!!! 
It is your life, as for ME, I still want a better one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Dirk


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 05 May 2012 07:06 AM 
To ALL 

To suggest that one should not be able to "state facts" as part of a post because someone [undefined] might possibly be offended is the worst kind of censorship. I was raised that individuals had the right to state their views regardless if others disagreed; that is the fundamental concept of free speech. I know many people and some have widely differing views on a variety of subjects including religion and politics. I believe they are entitled to their views and right to express them as long as I am not told that I am either required to agree or subjected to abusive harangues. 

What this also implies is that someone who chooses to be an agnostic or atheist should not be able to ban the comments that indicate belief in religion [in general] or even belonging to a particular group. 

Actually, I find "political correctness" and extreme efforts to "not offend" people and groups EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE in itself. One who cannot accept public expression of divergent views is guilty of the worst kind of intolerance. 

IF the PC find this offensive, I am not apologizing. 


Jim

I agree with what you say 100%.

This political correctness enviroment we find ourselves in will be the death of the United States as we all have known it.

As for John mentioning the name of the group he was going on this humanitary outing, you never made mention of the group being anything other than a group going to help people unable to help them selves.

I applaud any group willing to go out of their way to help others.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

If you could have seen these kids it would have brought tears to your eyes. They started lining up at 0600. Some of them were dressed very poorly. At checkout, each person got at least one white shirt and two ties. You could just see the gratitude in their eyes. 

We had translator with us who were not of our faith. They all mentioned how happy and contented these young people were. 

The trip was organized by the owner of Emergency Essentials. He made his millions and is now giving as much of it back as he can. He will start planning the November trip as soon as we get back in the states. Now that I know what to expect, I will be going if I can find the money to do it. 

John


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I am a person that is rarely offended about anything, because i know the world is made up of all type of different viewed people, Eaglewings has a great sign in their metal art, and I would suggest we 
follow it. It has an engine going over a bridge and it says BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT, 
Dennis


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## chanselman (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey get use to it. I live in Gilbert AZ, surrounded by Mormons. Everything revolves around their church and that is the main thing they talk about when they encounter one another, especially in the grocery store isles or the work place. They have given up on converting me, the missionarys don't even stop by any more. I refused to give up my weekend beer. Too much of the German Luthern in me. Oh no, my bad, shouldn't have said that. Never mind.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

So I'm not supposed to talk about how great and powerful and wise Odin is and how much I despise Loki?


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## chanselman (Jan 7, 2008)

Is there mead???? Wait let me get my hammer and winged helmet.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 05 May 2012 06:44 AM 



I was raised to believe that if someone tells me they're offended, I should stop offending them. 


But we dont live in that world anymore..
it used to be that if someone was offended, they were offended by something that was actually offensive..
these days, that is not always the case..(I might suggest that is *seldom* the case! 
People today are very often offended by things that are not actually offensive..so in that case, the problem really is theirs, not the person who said something that wasn't actually offensive.
and in that case, the person who was offended is in fact, quite often, just genuinely being a jerk..


Scot


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

I read the post that JB put up in regards to what their group is doing. JB, kudos to you and all who participated. 
regards, 
LAO


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Chanselman, there is always mead in Valhalla! Sometimes there's even mead here on Earth.  
Which reminds me, I need to buy about 10 pounds of honey for the ferment...


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Scotty - THX, you wrote it well !!!!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

WOOW I was away from the computer for 24 hours and look at the post??? 
Man we need to promote the hobby this strongly.....


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 06 May 2012 08:21 AM 
WOOW I was away from the computer for 24 hours and look at the post??? 
Man we need to promote the hobby this strongly..... 
Wow, ain't that the truth! I got involved in a couple of these in the past weeks and I finally came to the decision that there is waaaay too much apologizing goin' on HERE








and we need to get back to trains and building "things", whatever they may be.







I've been on Large Scale Central this week helping a guy in New Mexico, build an octogon pitched roof for his friend's 1/8th scale railroad water tank. That's what THIS place should be about.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Never ceases to amaze me how long threads like this one drag on. hehehe


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I always laugh at these kinds of threads. 

One of the greatest lies ever told in Kindergarten was that ANYTHING in life would be "fair". 

The best you can hope for on ANY web board is a mostly benign despotism. 

Beyond that, I think as a society we've also forgotten how to disagree without being disagreeable. If we're honest with ourselves, we'd also have to admit that we prefer to only hear from folks with whom we agree. Having to actually intellectually explain and defend your own absurdities and emotional kneejerk decisions IS pretty frustrating. Even worse is when you run up against somebody else just as pigheaded stubborn, irrational, and irritating as you are. A general rule of thumb is when you are talking you aren't listening, when you are shouting you aren't thinking. If folks could remember that their scriptures are to guide them, not to beat others over the head with. And that no political party has a lock on truth, love of country... or blatant arrogant stupidity, then there wouldn't even be a need for blanket bans to begin with


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Best moderators = "benign despots". Brilliant....absolutely ROTFLMAO!!!!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

People today are very often offended by things that are not actually offensive 
Scot, 
Respectfully - by definition, if they take offense then it is offensive - to them. It's all relative, not absolute. 


One of the greatest lies ever told in Kindergarten was that ANYTHING in life would be "fair". 
Right On! My Dad was always saying "but life ISN'T fair" and I passed the same wisdom on to my kids! 


To get back to the point (seeing as how everyone else has jumped in) 
As for John mentioning the name of the group he was going on this humanitary outing 
I thought it odd that John would want to post such a topic in our forums, but he obviously wanted to share his interest, and he did flag it OT I believe. It never even registered that he had included the name of the church. It was just like he posted the name of the ship that took him there, or whatever.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 06 May 2012 12:19 PM 
People today are very often offended by things that are not actually offensive 
Scot, 
Respectfully - by definition, if they take offense then it is offensive - to them. It's all relative, not absolute. 



Good point! 
but there was another aspect to my post that I guess I didn't clarify very well..
often, when people *say* they are offended, they actually aren't..they are just using "im offended" as an excuse to be a jerk! 
they *want* to be a jerk, but in order to be a jerk, they have to blame the other person for their own jerky post, so they attempt to make
being a jerk not their fault, so they cloak it in "I'm offended".. 


thats basically what I meant by "they are offended by something that is not actually offensive"..in reality, they are not offended at all..
they just want an excuse to be a jerk on an internet forum..any excuse will do, except admitting they are just a jerk! 
that never happens..so "im offended" becomes a convenient excuse..


(and, to further clarify, I am NOT referring to anyone specific on MLS! or to anyone in this particular thread..I have completely lost track of who said what, or who was offended by what or who wasn't offended by what..im speaking in general, generic terms, as a member of MANY internet discussion forums..) 


Scot


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

often, when people *say* they are offended, they actually aren't..they are just using "im offended" as an excuse to be a jerk!  
Hey Scot, that's a bit convoluted, and doesn't make a lot of sense. 

Are you trying to say that people "act" offended when really they aren't? More P.C. in operation? Or do you think it is something else? Or what do you mean?


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

"Public notices, rants and raves, this is the general use forum. Please try to keep posts somewhat train related and avoid religion and politics!!" 

Just mentioning religion is not discussing it...I think it was exceptable, anything more then yes it is not keeping with the guidelines.

Reference had to be made because of the missionary work that was being explained, with the dissclaimer "OT".

Maybe the offended poster just doesn't care for the religion used in the offending post....Anyway I like to hear about the above and beyond thigs people do for others now a days, as it goes on sometimes very little.

If i don't like something, I just fast forward by it, if not I WILL add my 2 cents, because I can...If I have to see yours you will have to see mine, add to it or pass by it.


I do not like to talk about religion ANYWHERE because this is what happens.

Bubba


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

But I thought Trains are a religion.....


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe because I am still "slightly slushy" from last evening -but last night was the 14th annie of the first date with the person who was to become my wife. We were introduced to each other by a mutual friend who used to be called "James"... The differing religions (on my side of the family) have never been important -but on her side they really are!!! At our Wedding The Grooms "Best Man" was a Deacon of the "New Apostolic Church"(!) The bridal party (on the Grooms side) included : A Buddhist, 3 Methodists, 2 Siha Muslims, 2 Anglicans, 2 Russian Orthodox, 1 Serbian Orthodox, 1 Zoroastrian and family members. 

I think the best thing about it was said by my (then) 10 year old son. "Daddy spells his religion with an "E" -and Mummy doesn't". 

regards 

ralph


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I read the post that JB put up in regards to what their group is doing. JB, kudos to you and all who participated. Ditto!!! My hat's off to you!


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I am sorry I created such a controversy.

I only wanted to express my excitement about the trip we were going on. And it turned out even more wonderful than I ever thought it could have been.

In November the group will be going to Northern Guatemala. I amm hoping that I can save enough money to go with them. They do this twice a year and quite a few of the people on this trip had done between 10 and 20 prrevious trips.

This trip was so successful that the organizers have been asked if they can do three trips a year and include another country.

Roatan Island was really nice. However, prices were much higher than in Guatemala and the shops would not lower prices hardly at all.

We went to a Monkey farm and played with Capuchian White Faced Monkeys and Macaws. It was a good trip. My wife did the Zip Line the next day. I took a tour of the island. Then we snorkled in the ocean.

Some of our group swam with the Dolphins.

We stayed at Infinity Bay Resort, a 5 star resort. A giigantic swimming pool ran the entirre length of the resort down to the ocean. The lalst time the group stayed here some of the doctors bought time shares which were reasonably priced only to find out that the airplane trip from the states would cost them about 1200 dollars each.

In Guatemala we stayed at the Grand Tikal Futura hotel in Guatemala City. IT was also a beautiful hotel.

It was rrecommended that we not wander the streets in Guatemala since it could be very unsafe to do so. 

The building we held our clinic in was gaurded by two gaurds wth sawed off shotguns. Armed gaurds were in many of the businesses.

We shopped at ShopMart which was much larger than the largest CostCo I have ever seen. The same was true of the Walmart much bigger than our Super Walmart.

John


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

John. there's nothing like the experience of spending time in other cultures of the world to broaden our perspective, gain new friends, help others, increase our knowledge and be so aware of how blessed we are to live in the US.

Glad you and Sharon had such a great trip.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

JB, quit apologizing as you did nothing wrong. 

Actually, you put some life in this website as it gets pretty boring at time and needs something to get people stirred up. 

Yes it's the trains that should be stirring things up, but historically, it's the controversies that get more people talking than the trains. 

If you read back through all the post on this thread, the large majority of the posts fell you did nothing wrong. 

The rest have there opinion and that's ok. 

We should all accept that we don't agree on everything. 

As far as being fair. 

Not everything is fair. 

None of us get everything our way.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

DITTO!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Ditto!


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

DITTO! I guess it's Fair!!!


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

As I said B-4, there always seems to be someone with an ax to grind just waiting to start a wildfire








Someday this PC sh*t has got to stop. Hard to do when the P isn't C either. 
Well, I guess some folks like beatin' dead horses









Now I gotta REAL wreck to clean up !!!
It was posted and on topic too. 

Rocky


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)




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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

We're still talking about this???


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## 22train (Mar 13, 2008)

So tell me what does this have to do with playing with trains??


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you read the first post you would see the question.... it has become:


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well well the famous derail. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)




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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 09 May 2012 11:10 AM 
JB, quit apologizing as you did nothing wrong. 

Actually, you put some life in this website as it gets pretty boring at time and needs something to get people stirred up. 

Yes it's the trains that should be stirring things up, but historically, it's the controversies that get more people talking than the trains. 





Yes kinda boring, same ole same ole, its' the excitement of the various opinions here, that sometimes stirr things up that is the real fun here!

And quite frankly, certain things need to be stated to get people to either think or rethink their views, or see something they are missing...I have mine occasionally.


rLvette has great points! What would life be without differences of opinions, and some heated debates at times! BORING!!!

I have had my turn is sturring things up from time to time. Life shouldn't always be a flat line.

As always IMHO

Bubba


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