# Copper Rail Depot RR Transitions into Winter



## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The summer season here in the Copper Valley was very typical weather-wise, at least in the sense that it used to be. That is, June and July were hot and dry. August was wet and September was supposed to return to clear, but considerably cooler weather. September, however, was mostly overcast with more precipitation than usual. Thus my end-of-the-season projects did not go quite as planned. We had some early good weather in September, but I was away. By the time I returned, so had the wet cool weather. I did find the time to make some final alterations to the railroad line in the fall. This was because, as I had feared, the turn-around at the lower level railroad storage area, aka the Cantwell Railroad Yard & Industrial Park, was too tight for some of the longer coaches. The USA passenger cars tended to derail on the western end. So I figured out a way to widen that curve.

The blue area represents the widened curve. In order to place it, I had to add new ladder supports for the widened area. The tracks at this level are about 3 1/2 feet above the ground. While I was at it, I added one more parking area for the cabooses, as shown on the drawing. Those new supports provided sufficient room for me to add a new switch on the west end for a continuation of the lower line. This will be worked on in the 2010 season. I added one bridge that crossed my original access into the lower area (I can still duck under it) and called it good: No more rail to be added this season. Thus, I now had (for now) a "bridge to nowhere." 












As it was already late in September when I added the bridge, I figured it would be unlikely that I would be able to find one more day warm enough to paint all the new supporting woodwork I had just added for that track. I went ahead instead with the business of winterizing the grounds, including emptying out the pond and removing the pumps that are integrated into the model railroad. I had even pulled all the engines which contain built-in batteries back into the warmth of the bar. Most of the rolling stock remained parked either in Cicely or directly below in Cantwell. I was now ready for the snow. But it never came. The weather continued to cool and the skies remained largely overcast. Then, along came this:











I took this picture this afternoon. In the distance is a clear view of Mt Wrangell. It was a stunning day and not only unseasonably warm, but probably _record-setting_ warm. By now we should not be seeing temperatures much above 40. In fact, that would be a "warm" day for mid-October. Today it was 62. I had a busy day today.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is the new bridge, three sections, eight foot in length or 192 scale feet in 1:24. I acquired it from a local large-scale train enthusiast who has quit the hobby.The weather was so balmy I took out several of the engines, including this Milwaukee Road FA-FB-FA, which was already parked for the winter in the bar. The bridge temporarily serves as a dead-end siding for parking short consists. Click for larger image.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Most of the track support you see here was unpainted until today. I had already given up on the possibility of painting this new area, but the warm weather sure changed that.You can also see the old track path where I pulled the track to enlarge the turning radius.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The bridge represents the end of the Phase II line, which has been under construction since 2006, and the beginning of the Phase III line, which I first announced here on MLS back in 2005.








The route across the bridge will continue to drop in elevation until the line can be run below the Cantwell RR yard. Thus the railroad will now have THREE levels within the Cicely model town area. The map below shows a part of the second and third level. The area immediately below Cantwell will house the Klondike Mines Railway yard, which will probably consist of a single siding since the KMR never had much rolling stock. The rail line will then continue beyond the covered railroad storage yard area to "_Grand Forks Junction_." 








_Click for larger map _


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is the layout map for the main lines of the model railroad showing the proposed track extensions. The red line represents the connection from the East Loop to the lower level of Cantwell which I built this summer. The brown line represents the track I intend to install in 2010. I will probably extend it as far as the area where the historic town representation of Grand Forks, Yukon Territory will be placed. The purple line is the continuation to ground level for the main ALCANEX line to a point where the railroad can cross my driveway. That segment will probably _not_ be built in the coming season. 








click map for larger one


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like you have been busy. Get many tour busses come through?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 12 Oct 2009 01:09 AM 
Looks like you have been busy. Get many tour busses come through? 

Regrettably, NO buses. Tourism, as you know, is way down. Next season the local Copper River Princess Wilderness Hotel will be dropping an entire month off of its schedule. It will only be open June through August.


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

You're expansion looks good and good to see you posting again.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Ron Senek on 12 Oct 2009 09:26 AM 
You're expansion looks good and good to see you posting again. 
The Copper Valley is experiencing unusual weather that has enabled me to extend my model railroad-running season a few more days. First I needed to complete that painting job. The new exposed wood was already showing early signs of deterioration, probably due to all the precipitation we have had here since August. In any case, I am definitely taking advantage of this last bit of good weather before winter sets in. Typically, by the first of November--only about two weeks off--the bottom drops out. As it is, I have never run the model RR this late in the season. It was an absolute delight to be able to run it yesterday. I have been very busy this year working on the facility including maintenance to the model RR. Not much time to get on this computer.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sulphur Springs:
Sulphur Springs was the extreme east end of the old roughly 31 mile KMR line, located near the top of the rolling hills that surround the gold-rich Bonanza, Eldorado and Hunker Creeks. There are indications that the original owners of the KMR intended to continue the line on to Whitehorse--a distance of more than 300 miles. Unfortunately, the boom years of the Klondike gold rush had already ended before the railroad was even built. There was no justification to build beyond the town of Grand Forks, about half-way up the line. From Grand Forks east the line heads through a valley that quickly blows shut from winter snows. In fact, it proved impractical to run this line in the winter and unprofitable to operate it even in the summer. The map and picture shows all that is left of Sulpher Springs, the end of the line for the KMR. What remains is a cut in the land where the wye had been built. 











To this day the hills in this area, which is near King Solomon Dome, are desolate. But even during the Klondike gold rush, little activity existed up here. The only possible reason to extend the line this far would have been _speculation_ that the activity spurred on by the original rush would continue up the valley. Although limited gold-mining activity did continue, no activity of any significance ever occurred here except for the construction of one dam on Bonanza Creek just to the east of Grand Forks. Even the dredge activity which followed those early strikes did not extend very far east of Grand Forks because the country was too steep. 









A road through Bonanza Creek to its upper reaches continues on to King Solomon Dome, drops into Hunker Creek and then meets the Klondike Highway. It is well worth following, but there is very little to see in the way of human activity, except for a few deserted cabins and the remnants of some old mining claims along the way. That road largely parallels the KMR route, which is in the hills above it to the north. 








This is the area just beyond the end of the line. I am starting my Phase III railroad from this end, which was the opposite way that the prototype was constructed, of course. The 2010 season will only see the construction of that first wye and perhaps a few other features typical of this far-eastern end of the long-gone Klondike Mines Railway.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

How far are you from the wilderness hotel? Do you have people come through your area even during Winter?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 12 Oct 2009 11:06 AM 
How far are you from the wilderness hotel? Do you have people come through your area even during Winter? 
The _Copper River Princess Wilderness Hotel_ is a misleading name. It is almost a first-class hotel just 3.2 road miles from the CRD. The bus route through "downtown" Copper Center on the way to the National Park Service Visitor Center goes by the CRD with a stop at the nearby Copper Valley Museum: 








_click map for larger image_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

So far I am still looking at two similar plans for the KMR layout, including _this one_ which appeared earlier on MLS:








_click for larger image_
Eventually most, if not all the elements you see on this map will become a part of the layout. Grand Forks will be the initial centerpiece to this new layout until I build the Klondike City railroad yard. In fact, except for a few houses and small businesses, Klondike City only had two reasons to exist at all. The first of these was a place for the Ladies of the Night. The second was the KMR railroad yard, which was very limited, not even including any railroad turn-arounds. However, I don't anticipate getting that far into the layout in 2010. My focus will be just to _arrive_ at the Grand Forks site with track and to then begin planning structures for that area. The gray-box areas are the three towns that will eventually appear on this outdoor model. 


When I drew up this revised plan in 2008 I did not envision that the two track systems would be combined. The practical reason for that, even though one of them is narrow gauge, is that they will share the same space for housing the rolling stock when it is not in use--under Cicely. And I need to bring the standard gauge ALCANEX line to that level anyway in order to meet the ground for the longer-range Phase IV and Phase V projects.










_Google-based map showing the development of the major phases of the CRD layout, including the proposed extension line to the driveway crossing. _


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah, it's great to have you back posting Ron. Your stories and information are always interesting. 

As far as the buses stopping at your place, can't you tip the drivers something to entice them to stop the bus for refreshments? 

Randy


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

How big is your lot?


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## sheepdog (Jan 2, 2008)

On my bucket list!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 12 Oct 2009 02:45 PM 
Ah, it's great to have you back posting Ron. Your stories and information are always interesting. 

As far as the buses stopping at your place, can't you tip the drivers something to entice them to stop the bus for refreshments? 

Randy 
With few exceptions, the only buses in the area in the summer are Princess buses. It appears that _they_ have been TOLD not to stop here: nothing in it for Princess.

I had an independent operator stopping by here in the past, but they no longer have tours in the valley.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 12 Oct 2009 03:50 PM 
How big is your lot? 
I have ten acres here. Of course, only a very small part of it will probably _ever_ be occupied by my model railroad. Nevertheless, as should be obvious by now, I am in the process of ongoing expansion, economy permitting. This process began in 2006 after I announced in 2005 here on MLS that there would be a Phase II AND a Phase III model railroad here at the CRD. Assuming I cross the driveway at the point shown on the map, I will then enter a Phase IV project (the part of the track south of the fenced area, but north of the river dike). Assuming I reach the dike and turn the rails south in the direction of the river, THAT will be Phase V. I am constantly reevaluating my options as far as ways to continue the model railroad beyond the existing fenced area. The driveway crossing and access to the dike are the main obstacles (aside from the growing amount of track all this will require). Also, I have other long-term construction plans on the property that serve to limit my railroad (for now) to the fenced-in area north of the parkway the runs south of the bar.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

After I had pulled out the Milwaukee Road FA-FB-FA and run it to the other end of the line, parking it on the Bridge to Nowhere, I returned to the bar to pull out a second engine. This one was an LGB Genesis. Here it is after it left the bar and entered the Chokosna Junction West Wye: 









During the summer, any locomotives parked in the bar are usually at the head of a line of cars, typically passenger coaches. But because this was after the season had closed, I had mostly locomotives parked one after another behind and above the bar. This one is headed to Cicely by way of Cold Pass to pick up the passenger consist it left behind.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Genesis bypassed the town of Cicely to reach the east end where it backed into the town to meet the AmTrak passenger cars it had left behind some weeks ago. 








It then pulled out, with the Aristo baggage car in the lead followed by a string of LGB coaches. In the rear would be two more Aristo AmTrak Streamliners: A dome car and an observation car which still has "Southern" markings displayed on its sides. 








The assembled AmTrak consist heads east away from Cicely toward the Cantwell yard:


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

In the background is the spectacular view of Mt Wrangell at 14,160 feet. Below it is the historic Copper Center Roadhouse. 








A look at the complete consist shows it in contrast to the expansive background of south central Alaska. 








The train enters the big turn on the East Loop as it heads toward East Sleetmute Junction:


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The AmTrak consist then enters East Sleetmute Junction, the way to the Cantwell RR Yard & Industrial Area:
 The consist begins the gentle descent into Cantwell:
 With no room in the Cantwell RR Yard, the AmTrak consist parks on the south siding. The engine will leave the coaches here and return to the CRD yard for the night.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sheepdog on 12 Oct 2009 04:00 PM 
On my bucket list! 
Is this "bucket list" along the lines of "101 things to do and/or places to visit before I die?"


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sometimes the best way to understand a historic railroad is to attempt to draw out the right-of-way. Here is my overlay on the Google map of the historic Sulphur Springs Wye area near King Solomon Dome about 30 miles southeast of Dawson City. I spent quite some time studying the drawings to come up with this. A 2004 GPS study of the KMR updated old information that made it possible to come up with a relatively accurate map of the as-built KMR. The study indicates that the location of the termination of the KMR could not be determined, but it would not have been too far beyond the area shown here. Incidentally, the ruling grade for this narrow gauge turns out to be 3.48 per cent. That is the same grade as the hill from McCarthy to Kennecott on the CRNW standard gauge line. 








click image for much-larger view


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Sulphur Springs Wye is elongated on its south end. Had I not taken the time to draw this railroad wye out, I would not have taken notice of it. One map shows two buildings along this wye, including some kind of depot along the elongated part. It appears that the KMR used box cars for depots, so this is what I will use here. All of the original KMR boxcars had their tops removed for conversion to flat cars. Thus it can be assumed that in some cases these tops were re-used as depots. Very interesting. 

The other structure was some kind of locomotive shed at the head of the wye. As far as I know, no photos exist of this building, but the KMR was not known for elaborate structures. It appears the company spent as little money as possible on its structures and rolling stock. Thus I can conclude that some basic frame structure probably existed here at Sulphur Springs at one time. I have to wonder, looking at what little was out here east of Grand Forks, if any of these railroad stops were even manned. I strongly suspect they were not. 









drawing from _"The Route of the Klondike Mines Railway in Modern Coordinates, Revision 1,"_ Johannes M. Vogt


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

It turns out, in reading the 2004 report, "The Route of the Klondike Mines Railway in Modern Coordinates[/i]," that the KMR was divided into two segments: Section 1 from Dawson City to but not including Grand Forks. And Section 2, including the town of Grand Forks through Sulphur Springs. I still wonder what the point was in even having a Section 2 since that area, except for the 5 mile stretch to the Bonanza Creek Dam, had to be wholly unproductive to the railroad while being the most expensive to construct and maintain due to the nature of the terrain. This area is all hills interspersed with many streams and deep gulches requiring the construction of several large, usually curved, trestles. Plus the route was otherwise full of steep curves, making it slow-going once the railroad had passed Bonanza Creek dam.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad to see you had some warm weather for running trains, especially before the winter sets in. Its amazing to see how early the season start in the country. Out my way we are just getting near peak foliage while others are still basking in 80 degrees. Thanks for the info and pictures


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

For those of you who have followed me in the past, some of these photos have appeared before in my  _Klondike Mines_ thread. My apologies for that, but I need some of these previously-used images to illustrate my points. Here, for instance, is one of two surviving box car shells apparently used as stations by the KMR. This one was probably between Flannery and Soda. My guess is that it sits at Flannery. Originally there were 12 box cars, starting with the number 100, on the KMR roster. These were 30 feet long with a 15-ton capacity. This was for an anticipated "high-class" freight which never materialized. Thus the company began converting these to flat cars which were primarily to be used for hauling fire wood and large mining machinery. In 1906 the roster was 7 box cars and 16 flat cars. In 1910 it was 6 box cars and 17 flat cars. The next year the roster showed only two box cars and 21 flat cars. By 1912 there were no box cars but 23 flat cars (numbered 100 to 124).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By snowshoe on 13 Oct 2009 01:04 PM 
Glad to see you had some warm weather for running trains, especially before the winter sets in. Its amazing to see how early the season start in the country. Out my way we are just getting near peak foliage while others are still basking in 80 degrees. Thanks for the info and pictures

This is the very last of a late Indian Summer, I guess. I ran one engine yesterday which was still parked at Cicely, back to the bar. I see it will be another fine day today, although yesterday was not exactly warm (41, I think). I am also using my remaining good days to work out possible plans for next year's expansion, as you can see from where I am going with this thread.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Please click this one for a larger image. Here you see the drawings for the aforementioned flat cars and box cars. I will be needing some of each over the next two years. These are narrow-gauge 30-foot cars. Anyone have any suggestions as to a source based on the prototypes you see here?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here you see a map of KMR Section 2, Grand Forks to Sulphur Springs--the section I am considering for construction beginning in the next season. As you can see, the rail bed took some very steep turns in this segment from Gauvin Gulch to an area just west of Soda. I am considering just what I can do with this, if anything to represent parts of this in such a way that it is recognizable. To do it properly I would need to have tons of fill dumped in the area I have selected for this layout. However, I don't see that as realistic. It is beginning to appear that this model, like Phase I & II, will have to be largely suspended above the ground. I don't see what else to do short of bringing in a _LOT_ of fill ! Thus I end up with another outdoor "bench" model, it appears.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ron 

I don't know the exact measurements, but these New Bright box cars are on the short side for 1/32 scale and might work for a 1/29 scale narrow gauge box car. The sell pretty cheap on ebay. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENVER-EXPRESS-...wItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item4a9b6745f6 

Randy


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 13 Oct 2009 03:20 PM 
Hi Ron 

I don't know the exact measurements, but these New Bright box cars are on the short side for 1/32 scale and might work for a 1/29 scale narrow gauge box car. The sell pretty cheap on ebay. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENVER-EXPRESS-...wItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item4a9b6745f6 

Randy 



The cars I need will be for the scale [/b]*1:20.3 *


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 13 Oct 2009 05:06 PM 
Posted By rlvette on 13 Oct 2009 03:20 PM 
Hi Ron 

I don't know the exact measurements, but these New Bright box cars are on the short side for 1/32 scale and might work for a 1/29 scale narrow gauge box car. The sell pretty cheap on ebay. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENVER-EXPRESS-...wItemQQptZModel_RR_Trains?hash=item4a9b6745f6 

Randy 



The cars I need will be for the scale [/b]*1:20.3 * 
That's these: I will even consider the more expensive brass ones if that what fits this prototype style best. I am going to need about six of the flats and four of the box cars for this set-up. No hurry, though. I just need to look at the options for planning purposes. 
 

(click image)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Even more important to me than the exact style and configuration of those flat cars and box cars are the style of the two coaches that once run on the Klondike Mines Railway. Here they are: 








Here is the description I have of them: 


_A combination coach/baggage car was bought by the WP & YR in 1899, origin unknown, as was re-lettered as WP & YR No. 202. In 1905 it was sold to the KMR., refurbished and re-lettered KMR No. 200, and shipped to Klondike City in September. Cast-in markings on the trucks, suggesting the builder, read "J. Hammond, SF, 1887." _



_The coach bought in 1900 by the WP & YR, origin also unknown, was re-lettered as WP & YR No. 208. In 1905 it was also rebuilt by the WP & YR, sold to the KMR as their No. 202, and shipped to Klondike City in September. Markings on the trucks of No. 202 read " Bill Meyer & SMall Co, York, PA."_

_Both coaches were in service from 1906 until 1911, when they were stored on Klondike Island . . ._ --Eric L. Johnson













Any ideas for 1:20.3 available models anyone?


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron 

about the only company doing 1.20.3 coaches and combines that I know of is AMS 

http://www.amstrains.com/AM54020.htm


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron

Don't know that the following will fulfill your requirements but it's the closest I can think of.

MasterClass-2006 / Carter Brothers in 1:20.3[/b]

Scroll to the lower portion of the page for wooden kit links.

In Wooden Kit Form by Doug Bronson[/b]


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 13 Oct 2009 09:23 PM 
Ron
Don't know that the following will fulfill your requirements but it's the closest I can think of.
MasterClass-2006 / Carter Brothers in 1:20.3
Scroll to the lower portion of the page for wooden kit links.
In Wooden Kit Form by Doug Bronson
 

Steve: Turns out you are right. Thanks for the reference. Here is the * Bronson Tate *_link_. These products are _relatively_ close to the KMR prototypes, as you can see from the comparisons I have made:


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The AMS Jackson-Sharp version uses distinctly _different_ windows and _appears_ to be sold only in lots of four cars, all the same (4 combines, one road name). However, I would consider it anyway if I could find ONE-only for sale !


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Is it my imagination or is there a distinct lack of affordable products in the 1:20.3 scale ? This is the first time I have really taken a look at the passenger cars. Those prices are right up there, to say the least !


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## MikeK (Jan 3, 2008)

Ron,

Have you looked at the kits offered by Phil Dippel of Phil's Narrow Gauge? Although they are Colorado prototypes, they are 1:20.3 and you might be able to adapt his 30' flat car and 30' boxcar to your needs. I have built several of his kits, including the 30' flat car and his 27' boxcar, and they go together well and look good when finished.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By MikeK on 14 Oct 2009 01:15 PM 
Ron,

Have you looked at the kits offered by Phil Dippel of Phil's Narrow Gauge? Although they are Colorado prototypes, they are 1:20.3 and you might be able to adapt his 30' flat car and 30' boxcar to your needs. I have built several of his kits, including the 30' flat car and his 27' boxcar, and they go together well and look good when finished.

Thank you for the great lead. I see the shop is closed for sales pending the completion of remodeling, but he offers some excellent products:







The 30-foot flat car kit by Phils







The 30-foot box car kit by Phils
Below: The KMR flat car and box car:  (clickable to a larger size)


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron 

As far as available rolling stock in 1:20.3, you are sadly correct. Bachmann seems to be slowly adding 1:20.3 items, but you have to be very carefull in what you purchase from them. I have seen the Bachmann Jackson Sharp Coaches listed as Spectrum Series, but when you log onto Bachmann's site, they are listed as Big Haulers Series which mean 1:22 scale. 

St Aubins list the AMS Jackson & Sharp Coaches for seperate sale at $209.89 each. See page 76 of the Oct GRM 

Randy


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 14 Oct 2009 03:21 PM 
Ron 

As far as available rolling stock in 1:20.3, you are sadly correct. Bachmann seems to be slowly adding 1:20.3 items, but you have to be very carefull in what you purchase from them. I have seen the Bachmann Jackson Sharp Coaches listed as Spectrum Series, but when you log onto Bachmann's site, they are listed as Big Haulers Series which mean 1:22 scale. 

St Aubins list the AMS Jackson & Sharp Coaches for seperate sale at $209.89 each. See page 76 of the Oct GRM 

Randy 
Got that! Fortunately I had that issue of GR _here_ sitting right next to me: single coaches, Jackson & Sharp, $209.89. Thanks. I will add that on to the list for consideration.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking all over the place at the possibilities when it comes to Fn3 combines. At this time it looks like the kit is the only way to go. I don't even see any AMS combines currently in production.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 14 Oct 2009 12:46 PM 
The AMS Jackson-Sharp version uses distinctly _different_ windows and _appears_ to be sold only in lots of four cars, all the same (4 combines, one road name). However, I would consider it anyway if I could find ONE-only for sale ! 
  
NOTE to Shad: The above would not have happened HAD this forum been set for the 48-hour time to edit that you prescribe. I went back to correct an image. In the process I had to rename it. I was going to edit the change of address, but in LESS than 24 hours I could not do it.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

NOTE to Shad: The above would not have happened HAD this forum been set for the 48-hour time to edit that you prescribe. I went back to correct an image. In the process I had to rename it. I was going to edit the change of address, but in LESS than 24 hours I could not do it 

It's also rather annoying: If you post, and spot a typo, you have to wait 60 seconds to correct it.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Getting back to the original topic, which is the approach of winter and how that will affect operations at the CRD, here is the latest 15-day Accuweather temperature projection chart:







What I have noticed is that out actual temperatures early in the month have tended to stay somewhat higher than the projections. I am still able to run the trains, although it has been a couple days since I have done it: too many other outdoor projects to complete. Also, so far, no snow. However, if these projections hold true, the available outdoor train operating time can now be measured in days, since I don't operate below freezing temps.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_Meanwhile I see that most of you have a reprieve from winter--except for parts of the northeast and eastern mid-west, that is where "Some snow will mix in across the interior of Pennsylvania and New York." (Accuweather)
_


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Reprieve from winter? We've been having winter since early spring! Global Warming at its best!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 15 Oct 2009 01:21 PM 
Reprieve from winter? We've been having winter since early spring! Global Warming at its best! 
Were you cheated out of this year's summer ? Have you seen any snow or predictions of snow yet in your part of the country ?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 15 Oct 2009 01:34 PM 
Posted By Torby on 15 Oct 2009 01:21 PM 
Reprieve from winter? We've been having winter since early spring! Global Warming at its best! 
Were you cheated out of this year's summer ? Have you seen any snow or predictions of snow yet in your part of the country ? 

I have my answer already. The snows are not hitting the mid west, but parts of the northeast:















Meanwhile the weather remains calm here so far, if increasingly cold. Right now it is 27 out there.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

. . . Sure enough . . . 















Our low this am was 24 F. Still no snow. In fact, we are running somewhat above normal temperature-wise. Usually by mid-October temps do not rise above freezing here. But it made it up to 40 today.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

It was 1978 when I first set foot here--12 years before I finally did the same at Kennecott. The original Klondike gold rush occurred right here 80 years before then (that was 31 years ago). An Indian named Skookum Jim is believed to have made that discovery even though George Carmack, a white man, staked the actual discovery claim in 1896. Skookum Jim ended up taking Claim 1 Above and Tagish Charley the other Indian in the party took claim 1 Below. And so it began even though the news would take so much time to spread that the rush was still nearly two years away. 
So here I stood in front of it. In those days a dredge bucket marked the spot. Later Parks-Canada placed this marker. 








The discovery claim is probably one of the most famous in the world. But the spot as you would view it today is singularly unimpressive. The creek is small. The rocks are all a muddy color and it just does not look like the kind of place where one would expect to encounter gold. 
 Just upstream is the abandoned site of Grand Forks--once a thriving town of probably 5,000, although I have seen estimates of more than double that. I suppose with all the transient miners that once plied these grounds, that was probably the case. One could look at that same area today and never conceive the mass of humanity which once lined the banks of this little, thoroughly unimpressive creek. 
 Just downstream from this point a bridge crosses the creek to follow the road that goes through the site of Grand Forks on the way to King Solomon Dome. That was the location of the Klondike Mines Railroad bridge. For all I know it WAS the old railroad bridge. But it has been a LONG time since I was here and I simply cannot say with certainty. After following the west bank side as far as the site of Grand Forks, I turned back and crossed the bridge to see what was on the other side. 
Maybe it is my Native roots. The closer I got to Grand Forks, the stranger I felt. I was as if I was constantly being watched by unseen eyes. But there was no one there but two other people in my party and me. We were completely alone out there. There was no sound of anything except the creek quietly gurgling along, seemingly in no hurry to arrive anywhere. But something about the place _was_ weird-- and a little sad as well. It was only when I first reached Grand Forks that I realized how enormous an event had occurred here in the early part of the century--an event now mostly covered over by dredge tailings and then further obscured by years of dozers moving those same tailings back and forth in search of yet more gold that might have been left behind. Indeed one would never know there had ever been much of anything out there when I was there in 1978. 


--to be continued--


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Winter? 
Heck I'd settle for Fall! 
Was 96 yesterday!


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## sheepdog (Jan 2, 2008)

Throughly enjoying the Gold Rush history. 32F this AM. I think Doc's 'secret ingredient' took a big hit from the cold.

Craig


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## sheepdog (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron - The Bucket List, movie starring Jack Nicholson & Morgan Freeman, directed by Rob Reiner. Great actors, great director, great subject for a movie but could have been better written. Two guys with a terminal illness going places and doing things they always wanted to before they kick the bucket.

Craig


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Keep the stories coming Ron. 

They're great 

Randy


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 17 Oct 2009 07:10 AM 
Winter? 
Heck I'd settle for Fall! 
Was 96 yesterday! 


The first snow to even momentarily stick occurred as a light dusting this morning. By early afternoon this was mostly gone. Normally by the 15th of October, anything which falls will stay. Not so this year. (click):


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Google-Earth Image showing the modern road bridge crossing near Grand Forks:
Always go to Google-Earth first: A careful examination of the terrain at the bridge reveals that the new Bonanza Road bridge is not in the same location as the original KRM crossing. Once the road crosses Bonanza Creek, just below Discovery Claim, it intersects the old railroad bed, then follows it exactly all the way through the Grand Forks town site before the road again moves away from the old railroad grade.


On the opposite side (right) is the road the continues on up Eldorado Creek. It passes by a wayside that once had a sign identifying the site of Grand Forks on which a panorama of Grand Forks was mounted. That panorama was gone by the late 80s. It should have been left there because the contrast of now to then is dramatic indeed. 


  When you click this second Google-Earth image you will see the location of that wayside as well as the approximate location of one of the Grand Forks Churches that stood on that side of the creek until the mid-1920s. The map icon image I use is of THAT church. 
  This was the scene portrayed in that panoramic. My small version here shows the location of all three churches. As near as I can determine, the cut in the background is the old KMR grade where the new road is now located. The original plan was to run that railroad right along the creek. Unfortunately for the historic and rather impressive little town, it sat on some of the richest gold ground to be found anywhere in the territory at that time. It was only a matter of time before it too would be mined, leaving no obvious sign that anything like this had ever existed. In fact, when you look at the Google-Earth image above (click) you can still see where there has been extensive mining activity right over that site. Interesting that the entire railroad grade from well below the aforementioned bridge all the way to the end at mile 31 survived all this mining activity.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The KMR could not have been built through the Grand Forks area according to its original plan because GF had already been established in 1898 and was a mature town already in decline when the railway finally reached the area in 1906. In fact, the original population was largely gone by then. The individual mining claims had already become a thing of the past. In the first year of the rush--1897--miners took out an estimated $ 2.5 million in gold. In 1898 that figure had jumped to $10 million, then $16 million in 1899, peaking at $22 million in 1900. By 1904 with rapidly dwindling production and the dredges inching their way closer up the creek, people were abandoning the area in droves. Stores began to close, churches and schools in the area were being boarded up even as the KMR approached. The two coaches the KMR had purchased to transport people would prove to be a poor long-term investment. It would not take long before the KMR would become nothing more than a carrier of firewood for the steam boilers and parts for the four dredges that were operating in the area in 1906. 







"Old view point" is the one shown in previous post. Below: View of abandoned site looking north and down stream in the direction of Dawson City
  But the KMR will surely make one grand narrow-gauge project. I keep reviewing these maps and photos seeking the right elements to properly represent the KMR as best as I can given the limited resources at my disposal. This will definitely be a multi-year project.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Early Klondike miners on Skookum Hill above Bonanza Creek

_ Now that the rush to the north land Eldorado is a thing of the past, one may contemplate with sober vision its promises and their fulfillment. Who has profited? Who has lost? How much gold has been taken out of the ground? How much has gone into it? And finally, what will be the ultimate outcome of this great shifting of energy, this intense concentration of capital and labor upon one of the hitherto unexploited portions of the earth's surface?_ _ In 1897, between the middle of July and the first september, fully 25,000 argonauts attempted to enter the Yukon country. Of these the great majority failed, being turned back at the head of the Lynn Canal by obstacles of the Chilcoot and White Passes, and at St. Michaels by the early advent of winter and the consequent closing of navigation on the Yukon. The spring of 1898 found 100,000 more on the various trails leading to the Klondike, chief among which were Skagway and Dyea, the Stickeen route, being at Fort Wrangell, the "all-Canadian" route via Edmonton, and the all-water route by way of the Bering Sea. To all of these had been iterated and reiterated the warning of the old-timers: Don't dream of venturing north with less than $600. The more the better. One thousand dollars will be none too much._ _







Making their way up the Golden Stairs of Chilkoot Pass A few bold spirits were not to be deterred by the fact that they did not possess the required amount, but in the main $600 was, if anything, under the average sum buckled about each pilgrim's waist. But taking $600 as a fair estimate of individual expense, for 125,000 men it makes an outlay of $75,000,000. Now, it is unimportant whether all or none of them reached the goal - these $75,000,000 were expended in the attempt. The railroads, the ocean transportation companies, and the outfiting cities of Puget Sound received probably $35,000,000; the remainder was dropped on the trail. The majority of those who succeeded in getting through had barely the $10 necessary for a miner's license; a few were able to pay the $15 required for the recording of the first claim they staked; many were penniless._ _ Since the transportation and outfitting companies certainly profited, the question arises: Did the Yukon district return to the gold-seekers the equivalent of what they spent in getting there? This may be decided by a brief review of the gold discoveries which have been made. In the fall of 1896 the first news of MacCormack's strike went down the Yukon and across the border to the established Alaskan mining camps of Forty Mile and Circle City. A stampede resulted and the Eldorado, Bonanza, and Hunker Creeks were staked. That winter the news crept out to "salt water" and civilization. But no excitement was created, no rush precipitated. The world proper took no notice of it. --pt 1, Jack London
_








Jack London himself 
Argonaut: a person in quest of something dangerous but rewarding; adventurer.[/i]


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_ In the summer of 1897 a stampede from the three creeks mentioned went over the divide back of Eldorado and staked Dominion Creek, a tributary of the Indian River. At this very moment the first gold shipments were reaching the Pacific coast and the first seeds of the gold rush being sown by the newspapers. During this period and early fall Sulfer, Bear, and Gold Run Creeks were being staked in a desultory fashion - as of course were many others which have since proven worthless. Regardless of glowing reports and the ubiquitous "wild-cats," and with exception of a very small number of bench claims, there have been no more paying creeks discovered in the Klondike. And this must be noted and emphasized: All the paying creeks above named were located before the people arrived who were hurrying in from the outside. _ _  _ _Massive sluicing activity near the site of Grand Forks (click for larger image)__
_ _ It is thus clearly demonstrated that those who participated in the fall rush of 1897 and in the spring rush of 1898 were shut out from the only creeks which would pay expenses, but the stay-at-home at once exclaims, were there other ways of playing even? How about the benches and the "lays"? Let the "benches " be first considered. A bench claim is a hillside claim as distiguished from a creek claim. The Skookum bench strike was made prior to the influx from the hillside, and subsequent to it came the discovery of the French Hill and Gold Hill benches, situated between Skookum and Eldorado. These last two are the only strikes in which the newcomers could have taken part. But at this point two factors arise limiting their participation. In the first place, not more than a score of French Hill and Gold Hill bench claims are rich, and not one will turn out more than $100,000. In the second place, these benches were right in the heart of the old workings, where the old-timers were on the ground, not five minutes' walk away. If the newcomers succeeded in possessing one claim out of each twenty staked they did well; and since not one claim in twenty developed pay dirt, the amount of dust taken out by the newcomers is practically nil. --Jack London, pt 2
_









[/i]_Jack London_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_ Now as to "lays." In the winter of 1896 the lay men did well. But at that time conditions were entirely different from those of the following winter. The importance of the Klondike strike was not appreciated, the value of the gold in the gravel problematical, grub was scarce, and the demand greatly in excess of the labor supply. Under these circumstances it was easy for men to obtain profitable lays. But in 1897 these favorable conditions had disappeared. The owners knew the true worth of their holdings, grub was plentiful, and the labor market was stocked. Now, no mine owner was silly enough to let a lay to a man which would clear that man $50,000, when he (the mine owner) could work that same man on wages the same length of time for $2,000. However, many newcomers, with ignorance really pathetic, took such lays as were offered, used their own tools and "grub," worked hard all winter, and at the wash-up found they would have been better off had they idled in their cabins. It is a fact that hundreds of lay men on the various creeks refused to put their winter's dumps through the sluices. It is thus evident that the Yukon district returned no equivalent to the gold-seekers who expended $75,000,000._







Hoards of miners and others assemble for Dominion Day at Grand Forks, circa 1903 _ It is an old miner's maxim that two dollars go into the ground for each dollar that comes out. This the Klondike has not failed to exemplify, and a startling balance-sheet may be struck between the cost of the effort and the value of the reward. On the one side legitimate effort alone must be considered; on the other the actual gold taken from the earth._ _ Scores of new transportation and trading companies, formed during the excitement with an enterprise only equaled by their ignorance, lost in wrecked river and ocean-going craft and in collapse several millions of dollars. The men in the country before the rush - the mine owners, middlemen, and prospectors - between their expenses and their labor form and important item, as do also the expenditures of the Canadian and American governments. But disregarding these items and many minor ones, the result will still be sufficiently striking. Consider only the 125,000 gold-seekers, each of whom on an average, in getting or in trying to get into the Klondike, spent a year of his life. In view of the hardship and the severity of their toil, $4 per day per man would indeed be a cheap purchase of their labor. One and all, they would refuse in a civilized country to do the work they did do at such a price. And let them be granted 65 resting days in the twelvemonth. Still the effort expended by these 125,000 men in the course of the year is worth in the aggregate $150,000,000. To this let there be added the $75,000,000 they spent in cash, and we have for one side of the balance the sum of $225,000,000 - or roughly, $220,000,000._ _







Belinda Mulrooney's "Magnet" store at 17 Below on Bonanza Creek. Belinda went on to be one the great success stories in the Klondike--a millionaire probably several times over _ _ The other side is easily constructed. The spring wash-up of 1898 was $8,000,000; of 1899, $14,000,000. In the absence of the full reports this latter is a liberal estimate, allowing an increment of $4,000,000 and considering the fact that no new discoveries have since been made. The figures stand for themselves: $220,000,000 have been spent in extracting $22,000,000 from the ground._ _ Such a result would seem pessimistic were not the ultimate result capable of a reasonable anticipation. While this sudden and immense application of energy has proved disasterous to those involved, it has been of inestimable benefit to the Yukon country, to those who will remain in it, and to those yet to come. --Jack London, pt 3







Jack London
_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_ Perhaps more than all other causes combined the food shortage has been the greatest detrimant in the developement of the region. From the first explorer down to and including the winter of 1897 the land has been in a chronic state of famine. But a general shortage of supplies is now a thing of the past. About 1874 George Holt was the first white man to cross the coast range and the first man to penetrate the country avowedly in quest of gold. In 1880 Edward Bean headed a party of twenty-five from Sitka to the Hootlinqua River, and from then on small parties of gold-seekers constantly filtered into the Yukon valley. But these men had to depend wholly upon what provisions they could carry in with them by the most primitive methods. Consequently throrough prospecting was out of the question, for they were always forced back to the coast through the lack of food. Then the Alaska Commercial Company, in addition to maintaining its trade posts scattered along the river, began to freight in provisions to sell to the miners who wished to winter in the country. But so many men remained that a food shortage was inevitable. With every steamer that was added more men hurried over the passes and wintered; and as a result demand always inreased faster than supply. Every winter found the miners on edge of famine, and every spring, with the promise of more steamers, more men rushed in._ _







_ _Stern-wheeler passing through Five Finger Rapids on the Yukon_ _ But henceforth famin will be only a tradition in the land. The Klondike rush placed hundreds of steamers on the Yukon, opened the navigation of its upper reaches and the lakes, put tramways around the unnavigable Box Canyon and White Horse Rapids, and built a railroad from salt water at Skagway across the white Pass to the head of steamboat traffic on Lake Bennett._







 Two views of the famous old church at Lake Bennett. Lower one is clickable to a larger image. 
_ --Jack London account, pt 4
_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_ With the dwindling of population caused by the collapse of the rush, these transportation facilities will be, if anything, greater than the need of the country demands. The excessive profits will be cut down and only the best-equipped and most efficient companies remain in operation. Conditions will become normal and the Klondike just enter upon its true development. With necessaries and luxuries of life cheap and plentiful, with the importation of the machinery which will cheapen many enterprises and render many others possible, with easy traveling and quick communication between it and the world and between its parts, the resources of the Yukon district will be opened up and developed in a steady, business-like way._







Early dredge working its way up the Bonanza Creek _ Living expenses being normal, a moderate wage will be possible. Nor will laborers fail to hasten there from the congested labor markets of the older countries. This in turn, will permit the employment on a large scale of much of the world's restless capital now and seeking investment. On white River, eighty miles south of Dawson, great deposits of copper are to be found. Coal, so essential to the country's exploitation, has already been discovered at various places along the Yukon, form "MacCormack's Houses" above the Five Finger Rapids down Rampart City and down the Koyukuk in Alaska. There is small doubt that iron will eventually be unearthed, and with equal certainty the future gold-mining will be mainly in quartz._ 
_ With the dwindling of population caused by the collapse of the rush, these transportation facilities will be, if anything, greater than the need of the country demands. The excessive profits will be cut down and only the best-equipped and most efficient companies remain in operation. Conditions will become normal and the Klondike just enter upon its true development. With necessaries and luxuries of life cheap and plentiful, with the importation of the machinery which will cheapen many enterprises and render many others possible, with easy traveling and quick communication between it and the world and between its parts, the resources of the Yukon district will be opened up and developed in a steady, business-like way._







Grand Forks as it nears its end _ Living expenses being normal, a moderate wage will be possible. Nor will laborers fail to hasten there from the congested labor markets of the older countries. This in turn, will permit the employment on a large scale of much of the world's restless capital now and seeking investment. On white River, eighty miles south of Dawson, great deposits of copper are to be found. Coal, so essential to the country's exploitation, has already been discovered at various places along the Yukon, form "MacCormack's Houses" above the Five Finger Rapids down Rampart City and down the Koyukuk in Alaska. There is small doubt that iron will eventually be unearthed, and with equal certainty the future gold-mining will be mainly in quartz._







Placer and drift mining in the hills along Bonanza Creek
_ --Jack London account, pt 5*
*_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_As to the ephemeral placers, the outlook cannot be declared bad. It is fair to suppose that many new ones will be discovered, but outside of this there is much else that is favorable. While there are very few "paying" creeks, it must be understood that nothing below a return of $10 a day per man under the old expensive conditions has been considered "pay." But when a sack of flour may be bought for a dollar instead of fifty, and all other things in proportion, it is apparent how great a fall the scale of pay can sustain. In California gravel containing 5 cents of gold to the cubic yard is washed at a profit; but hitherto in the Klondike gravel yielding less than $10 to the cubic yard has been ignored as unprofitable. That is to say, the old conditions in the Klondike made it impossible to wash dirt which was not at least two hundred times richer than that washed in California. But this will not be true henceforth. There are immense quantities of these cheaper gravels in the Yukon Valley, and it is inevitable that they yield to the enterprise of brains and capital._

  The KMR line at 17 Below. 
_In short, though many of its individuals have lost, the world will have lost nothing by the Klondike. The new Klondike, the Klondike of the future, will present remarkable contrasts with the Klondike of the past. Natural obstacles will be cleared away or surmounted, primitive methods abandoned, and hardship of toil and travel reduced to the smallest possible minimum. Exploration and transportation will be systematized. There will be no waste energy, no harum-scarum carrying on of industry. The frontiersman will yield to the laborer, the prospector to the mining engineer, the dog-driver to the engine-driver, the trader and speculator to the steady-going modern man of business; for these are the men in whose hands the destiny of the Klondike will be intrusted._







Jack London concludes his narrative and observations


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack London was one of those "Argonauts" to which he referred in his writing, entering Alaska in the fall of '97 to make his way to the Klondike gold fields. Like many others, he arrived too late to stake any of the good claims. He wintered over along the Stewart River in a cabin that has been moved and preserved at Dawson City. While there he collected many of the stories he later used in the books that made him one of the most famous authors of the day--and one who remains as an American literary icon. He left Alaska in 1898, but it can be safely said that Jack London set foot in Grand Forks in the grand days of the Klondike Gold Rush. Jack died in 1916.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 17 Oct 2009 06:59 PM 
The KMR could not have been built through the Grand Forks area according to its original plan because GF had already been established in 1898 and was a mature town already in decline when the railway finally reached the area in 1906. In fact, the original population was largely gone by then. The individual mining claims had already become a thing of the past. In the first year of the rush--1897--miners took out an estimated $ 2.5 million in gold. In 1898 that figure had jumped to $10 million, then $16 million in 1899, peaking at $22 million in 1900. By 1904 with rapidly dwindling production and the dredges inching their way closer up the creek, people were abandoning the area in droves. Stores began to close, churches and schools in the area were being boarded up even as the KMR approached. The two coaches the KMR had purchased to transport people would prove to be a poor long-term investment. It would not take long before the KMR would become nothing more than a carrier of firewood for the steam boilers and parts for the four dredges that were operating in the area in 1906. 







It just occurred to me as I look at this that the town site of GF was no larger than downtown McCarthy or Chitina--both along the CRNW Railway route. The population of Chitina was said to have reached 6,000 in 1910 when the largest part of the railroad construction crew was there. But by the 1930s it had shrunk to about 200. It's downtown was about the same size as GR. McCarthy might have reached into the low thousands when that same construction crew reached it in the early months of 1912, but its population probably never otherwise exceeded 600, if that high. Neither town, of course, was immediately surrounded by teaming masses of prospectors who all thought they were about to strike it rich. Of the three, only GF was a true boom-town, with a large population lasting from probably late 1897 until 1906--the same year the KMR arrived. After that GF was probably little more than a whistle stop. The declines of both Chitina and McCarthy probably started in the late 1920s, bringing both towns to a near standstill from 1932 when the railroad closed down until 1935 when the railroad briefly reopened. The end for both towns would have been incredibly swift. After November 11, 1938, both towns must have resembled the Grand Forks that was on the edge of extinction in 1921.


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## sheepdog (Jan 2, 2008)

Why is that song from Johnny Horton keep running through my head..........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSt0NEESrUA 


Craig


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sheepdog on 18 Oct 2009 07:57 AM 
Why is that song from Johnny Horton keep running through my head..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSt0NEESrUA 

Craig 


Hey, that was well worth the watching and listening.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm really enjoying this History lesson and the Jack London narative is the best! 

Thanks for the posts, I look forward to more. 

John


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 18 Oct 2009 10:44 AM 
I'm really enjoying this History lesson and the Jack London narative is the best! 
Thanks for the posts, I look forward to more. 
John 
The placing of Jack London right on one of my favorite historic locations certainly makes for a great story, doesn't it? And, it's historical fact. His writings reveal an interesting grasp on the humanity which once made the Klondike their home, if only for a season or two. Your by-line caught my eye: [/i]His friend Jerry Dillon looked up at the hillside and said, “There’s a big ledge, and the whole damned hill is a total wreck with quartz boulders of ore.” [/i]Now I understand where you got the name you use here on MLS. What a great story behind that line ! 

Interestingly, that line fits Gold Hill--the one which faced Grand Forks directly across Bonanza Creek: 

 Gold Hill (looking west from Grand Forks and as likely seen from the Klondike Mines Railway right-of-way (click for larger image). There was good reason to believe that the mother lode for the gold on the creek bottom lay here. This is one of the few sites along this stretch where hard rock mining activity occurred ! 
I don't believe they ever found any quart boulders over there. In fact, I don't believe they ever found the fabled mother lode, either !


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

OK Ron, you've stirred our interest here. We patiently wait for your next installment. 

I find it very interesting how much I hated history classes in school yet so thoroughly enjoy your delving into Alaska history as you do. 

Randy


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 20 Oct 2009 04:01 PM 
OK Ron, you've stirred our interest here. We patiently wait for your next installment. 

I find it very interesting how much I hated history classes in school yet so thoroughly enjoy your delving into Alaska history as you do. 

Randy 
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I really don't see all that much support to continue the history part of this thread so I will probably wrap this one up once the snow hits, which is has not yet (but the snow is on the road PACKED just a few miles to the north of here). I am considering running one or more of the trains one last time when there is some snow on the ground and the tracks-assuming it is not that much. That should make for some great parting shots. We will see how that goes.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I also hated History. But when I went to school it was not presented as it is today. There is a lot more infomation that has been discovered and released the adds more color to history today. I was always facinated by how Hitler got to do what he did. It is more clear now due to the History Chanel There is so much more infomation that is readly available now a days. 

I always look forward to a post by Ron because I know lots of interesting stuff is going to be posted. I love reading his posts.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

It seems, in all the date memorization, History Teachers did us a disservice by obscuring the point. It's not so important that Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo in 1815, as why Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo, and why he was even there to be defeated.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 22 Oct 2009 08:38 AM 
It seems, in all the date memorization, History Teachers did us a disservice by obscuring the point. It's not so important that Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo in 1815, as why Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo, and why he was even there to be defeated. 

AHA! You ahve touched ona an important point as as the shild of a teacher and grandchild of two teachers adn nephew of two teachers and teh husband of a former teacher i think i can say with some background that what they teach us is not designated by the teacher BUT by the State. We are taught as children to pass the state examinations (No child left behind) and not to absorb the rest of the story. As a child with a Regents diploma (As I recall?) from New York state, it was all about passing the regents exams. If you could do that then that became your final grade for the year regardless of your other grades.


Chas


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Chas has something there. WE had a guy working with us who went to electronic school. The guy had trouble changing a light blub. When asked about his education he stated "I studdied for the test" He did not understand the material but he knew the asnwers to the questions. What?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

For all the years I have been a member of MLS I have emphasized the importance of context with these model railroads. EVERYTHING you build or put together has a historic basis--not just as a prototype of a specific piece of rolling stock or railroad-related structure, but in the framework of some kind of history. Much as I can appreciate all the incredible craftsmanship that goes into some of the model-building seen here on MLS, in and of itself a specific locomotive model or a representation of a depot based on one that once existed has no lasting value without a proper historic context. It comes down to "Oh, look at THAT! How interesting! What else you got?" Thus you have spent hundreds of hours putting together the perfect version of a Virginia and Truckee ten-wheeler but then you have no story behind it other than specifics on its original construction or a few tidbits on where the specific railroad line once ran. Is that enough ? NO. It very quickly becomes old news and we move on to the next object of interest.

But history is deep. It goes on and on. There is ALWAYS something new to learn, not just from the books, documents and photos, but by what we can put together based on bits of information we have collected here and there, that is, our own analysis based on what we already know from our research. 

Your objection is that your railroad is based on nothing in particular? That it is wholly fantasy? Really? Are you sure? Who built the prototypes of those engines you are using? Where were they used ? Why were they used in JUST those places or, alternately, why were there so many of them appearing just about everywhere on the North American continent? Do they have historic fallen flag names on any of them? Have you pursued any of the history of the lines THOSE represent? No, you say, you made up your own name and put that on ALL your rolling stock? Okay. So WHY did you do that? What is the story behind all of that. WHERE did you get your ideas? They did not come to you out of thin air. NOBODY is THAT original! You put something together based on things you already know because you saw them personally or in pictures or you read about them somewhere. _Historic_ context what it is all about. What about the interesting construction of that large steel bridge you have there? Why do you have _that_ in your layout? You MUST have seen one like it somewhere. What attracted you to it so much that you HAD to have one like it at a cost of hundreds of your own dollars? I call that _historic _context. 

I have made this same argument many times on this forum. NOBODY has EVER responded to it. I am well aware of how many people have followed my historic threads over the years. I can pull more readership than just about anyone because we are ALL to one extent or another absolutely fascinated by what our forebears have done to bring us to where we are today. We WANT to know how they lived and why they did what they did. We are especially fascinated by the obvious hardships faced by so many of those who built America (excuse me but I am limiting this context to one country--well, two, actually--but the same principle obviously applies anywhere in the world) against what now appears to be near-impossible odds. I have chronicled many of those stories--all of them railroad-related, of course. 

For me the one common thread to the history that fascinates me IS a railroad, whether it be here in Alaska, across the border in the Yukon Territory or British Columbia and beyond to Canada's east coast, or stateside all the way to the Southern Crescent line in the southeastern United States. The story line possibilities when one brings in a historic railroad are endless. I can bring together huge industrial mining complexes, short-line narrow gauge railroads, transcontinental railroad giants AND Native American people--ALL in one delightful mix. Yet it all started with one single layout that I built in a remote corner of Alaska. It isn't me, though. It is the historic context.

From there we can go into the fantasy trips, the imaginary, the wholly whimsical, wherever our imagination might take us. In my case it is Cicely from _Northern Exposure_ and all the possibilities that the creation of this model--my interpretation of Cicely-- brings together. But even THAT started with the REAL railroad lines that once existed--the Northern Pacific and the Milwaukee Road. And a REAL town--Roslyn and Cle Elum, Washington. 


Am I making any sense to any of you or am I just writing to myself ?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am facinated by abandon buildings. They make my road trip to Marty's every year enjoyable. Between Flastaff and Alburquerque alone there are hundres of abandon building. Gas stations, Resturants, Houses, work shops. Who built them? Why did they build them there? Who was the last one to live in them? Why did they leave? One comes to mind on the way to Alburquerque is a stone structure with no roof, no widow frames, no doors. It is a one room building. Who lived there? Maybe some cowboys tending cattle long before roads or freeways. I think I will have one of those on my Layout.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, I get your drift. As my memory of things past, fade away, the internet has opened my mind to many of those faded memories and a lot of history I never was able to experience first hand. Yet, it's those memories we talk about with friends that give us substance and meaning. In trains. I bought a Rock Island set simply because I like the looks of the paint scheme, but once I got the diesels, I went on the internet looking for information about the Rock Island Railroad. 

What saddens me the most is the lost images of memories gone by. I never was much of a photo buff. I have so many memories with no photos to back them up. 

Please keep up the articles as I along with many on this site thoroughly enjoy them 

Randy


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I have made this same argument many times on this forum. NOBODY has EVER responded to it. 

This bothers you? We much enjoy your history postings, I don't think I'd do as much research as you do, and, if I was to start, my postings wouldn't be near as rich as yours 'cause I haven't been collecting photos and stories for years like you have.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By blackburn49 on 18 Oct 2009 02:34 PM 
Posted By Totalwrecker on 18 Oct 2009 10:44 AM 
I'm really enjoying this History lesson and the Jack London narative is the best! 
Thanks for the posts, I look forward to more. 
John 
The placing of Jack London right on one of my favorite historic locations certainly makes for a great story, doesn't it? And, it's historical fact. His writings reveal an interesting grasp on the humanity which once made the Klondike their home, if only for a season or two. Your by-line caught my eye: [/i]His friend Jerry Dillon looked up at the hillside and said, “There’s a big ledge, and the whole damned hill is a total wreck with quartz boulders of ore.” [/i]Now I understand where you got the name you use here on MLS. What a great story behind that line ! 

Interestingly, that line fits Gold Hill--the one which faced Grand Forks directly across Bonanza Creek: 

 Gold Hill (looking west from Grand Forks and as likely seen from the Klondike Mines Railway right-of-way (click for larger image). There was good reason to believe that the mother lode for the gold on the creek bottom lay here. This is one of the few sites along this stretch where hard rock mining activity occurred ! 
I don't believe they ever found any quart boulders over there. In fact, I don't believe they ever found the fabled mother lode, either ! 

Ron,
They built a mine there and Called it The Total Wreck, I've been inside and through the hill. I've been to about 20 abandoned mines in the area and the Total Wreck is my favorite. I live in Vail Az named afer the mine owner, John Vail. At one time the mine had it's own post office and a population of 500. 4 saloons, a butcher, 2 hotels, Dining hall and a lumberyard and a stamp mill

















Stamp mill on top and the town in the second pic.
Nothing left but rubish piles on the town side and the stone foundation of the stamp mill and some collapsed mine head timbers.

John


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, if I had your gift of writing I would write more, but I dont, I have said it before and will say it again, I always look for your posts, ALWAYS read them and look forward to them, you have a gift of making history come alive, please keep writing!!! Of course I have read so many books on Alaska, and some day will come and see the last frontier. So please there are many of us just want to see what you come up with next. DONT STOP!!!

tom h


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 22 Oct 2009 07:56 PM 

Ron,
They built a mine there and Called it The Total Wreck, I've been inside and through the hill. I've been to about 20 abandoned mines in the area and the Total Wreck is my favorite. I live in Vail Az named afer the mine owner, John Vail. At one time the mine had it's own post office and a population of 500. 4 saloons, a butcher, 2 hotels, Dining hall and a lumberyard and a stamp mill.



















Stamp mill on top and the town in the second pic.
Nothing left but rubish piles on the town side and the stone foundation of the stamp mill and some collapsed mine head timbers.

John


Great pictures ! All too often this is what we have left--the historic images, a few documents and that is about all. It is amazing how quickly a ghost town crumbles back into the wilderness. We have so little left even up here in Alaska where so many boom towns once existed.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

It was just another sprinkling of snow last night, but this one stuck. We saw NO melting action as we approached mid-afternoon because temperatures were no longer reaching above freezing. It is finally winter here at the CRD.
I decided it was time to head out to the outdoor model railroad area one more time to see if conditions were favorable to operate any of the trains already stashed away in the bar for the winter.
After all, this was just a light dusting. Any more snowfall after this one, and any further model railroad operations would be out of the question. 

 Above: West Sleetmute Junction from the west end of Cicely. To the right is Cold Pass. The the left is the original Great Northern mainline I built in 2006. 

(click any image for a larger view)
 Above and below: Views of the 8-foot long bridge I installed at the end of the fall--my Alaskan "Bridge to Nowhere" (for now).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The old Shay was parked on the rail line which passes under the Northwestern Mining Company tipple on the east end of Cicely. It appeared to be ready. All I needed to do was plug in a battery in the trailing car, which I did. 
 After some initial reluctance, out it finally came, operating very slowly. 
 Here the small snow plow configuration passes by a small residential neighborhood as it passes through the north end of Cicely.
 Then it leaves town, passing over the old turntable on the way to the snowed-over tracks.
Regrettably, this engine kept stalling out. I finally gave up on it and brought one in that was already warmed up.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The AKRR 40-2 seemed to be up to the job of pushing that plow through all that snow: 
  Unfortunately the plow struck this switch, derailing the locomotive. After I re-railed the locomotive, which had been dumped into the snow, I started experiencing some signal problems and electrical problems as well, but I was still able to nurse this engine through to the completion of its job. It is in the bar being recharged right now. 
  All-in-all this operation is quite impressive to observe. 
  (Click any image for a larger one)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

AKRR plow 3015 makes quick work of the straight-of-way that is Cold Pass: 
 
 The sharp turn on the northwest corner of the line at the far west end of Cold Pass required more than one attempt to push the snow through. Then the engine continued past Kennecott Junction, approaching the wye from the north.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

AKRR Plow Consist 3015 has entered the old GN mainline, passing Cicely on its way to the East Loop. 
 By the way, the electronic problems I was experiencing with this locomotive went away after it had a chance to fully dry out once it was back in the bar. At first this engine even resisted recharging. It took several hours for it to restore itself. It now sits on a siding in the bar where it will likely remain for the duration of the winter. The plow is also in storage on the same siding, just off of old Chitina, above the bar.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that the west end has been cleared off, AKRR snow plow consist 3015 heads east, reaching the east loop where it works its way around to East Sleetmute Junction--the route to the Cantwell Railroad Yard & Industrial Area. It is here where two large passenger consists await transport back to either Cicely or beyond to storage in the bar. 
This is the latest I have ever operated on the outdoor rail line. It is also the first time in all these years that I have actually used the plow. In the past, once it had snowed, I simply shut down. This time I wanted to take an opportunity, if it came, to run the trains one last time. Clearly I had my chance now. But first the lines had to be cleared of snow ! 

 Here the plow approaches the junction to Cantwell:
 The plow enters the junction without difficulty and heads downhill toward Cantwell. It is literally all downhill now.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The decline into Cantwell, due to the construction of the supports, contains little snow, allowing for easy-plowing all the way to Cantwell.

 http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/blackburn49/ALCANEX-09-closure/018.jpgThe tracks immediately in front of the Cantwell RR Yard & Industrial Area are largely free of snow because of the overhead canopy that also protects the mainline and siding in front of Cicely. Here AKRR Plow 3015 reaches the Bridge to Nowhere. 

 http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k220/blackburn49/ALCANEX-09-closure/019.jpgAfter clearing off the bridge, the plow prepares to back all the way up the slope to East Sleetmute Junction. 

NOTE: A kink is visible on the track heading to the right. I had to pull that section and redo it before operating on that section. Something moved somewhere that should not have.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

AKRR 3015 backs up to the junction. At that point it will be oriented corrected to complete the plowing for the rest of the East Loop.
 Off it heads, completing the rest of the loop plowing.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

AKRR 3015 heads west, non-stop all the way back to the bar where it will complete its mission. 
 
 Here it has passed Cicely, bypasses West Sleetmute Junction, and continuing on to Kennecott and beyond. 
 Finally, its mission completed, AKRR 3015 comes to a halt just outside the tunnel where it will enter the bar. There it will be mothballed for the next five and a half months. Now the way is clear for AKRR consist 4100 to leave the bar for Cantwell. There it will pick up the Great Northern passenger consist that now sits on the mainline at Cantwell. The GN consist will be wintered in the bar.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

AKRR 4000 awaits the passing of AKRR 3015
 The double header passes West Sleetmute Junction area to its north as it works its way to Cantwell to pick up its passenger consist.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The trip east and then west is seamless. These are absolutely-top performing engines.
 AKRR 4100 approaches its consist load from the east.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

AKRR 4100 hooks up to the GN passenger consist on the Cantwell mainline and proceeds to pull it out . . . 
 
 
 Off it heads with a final destination of the Copper Rail Depot where this consist will spend the winter.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Eek! You've been visited by the 25ft high abominable snow kitty! I thought those only lived in Kamchatka.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The GN passenger consist headed by AKRR 4100-4101 passes Cicely on its way to the CRD. 
The sun is now so low on the horizon that it is beginning to get past the canopy, sending sun through the windows as you can see here. When I completed the mission I would have to go back and let down the remaining shades to protect the Cicely model from harmful UV rays over the course of the winter. Of course, for nearly two months that won't be an issue because no sun rays will even strike this building ! 

 AKRR 4100-4101 passes through the wye on its final run of the 2009 season. I can't believe it is already over ! 
 
 The cars are now being backed into the bar where they will remain for the next nearly half-year. Well, almost. In December I bring out the Christmas cars for display. They will sit where the GN cars are to be parked. After Christmas is over, the GN cars will be put back in place.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

But the operation was not over. Sitting on the outside Cantwell South Siding were the two trailing cars for the Milwaukee Road doodle bug. These would have to be moved somewhere inside for the winter. 
Since the Cantwell yard was already full, I decided to move these two cars up to Cicely. Thus the doodlebug was brought out from the bar for one last outdoor run. Afterwards it too would be place in storage for the winter. Because it has a built-in battery, this unit would have to be stored in a warm area. 

 The doodlebug operation revealed to me that I would have to re-work that same troublesome west Cantwell turn-around. I spent about a half hour correcting it, using the doodle bug to test the line. Once I was satisfied with the curve, I moved the doodlebug consist through it. 
 The small doodlebug consist emerges through the east side of the Cantwell yard:
 Then it proceeds up the track toward its final destination. 
 Only one final operation remains before the outdoor rails are closed for the season.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 22 Oct 2009 09:49 PM 


 
This photo also shows some acquisitions I made this fall, mainly the truck carrier and a couple of 1971 GTO muscle cars. Much of my Cicely details consist of various 1:24 Danbury and Franklin mint cars and trucks. Some of these go back 15 years, but I have moved to enhance the collection in the last few months when I found some new issues by both companies that fit a niche for me here on the Cicely layout. The '59 Cadillac Eldorado is the closest I could get to the tan one provided for Maurice Minnifield for his role as the town mover and shaker in the Northern Exposure television series. Still in the works is a reproduction of his Cicely log home, which should be in place here by early next year. (click image for a much-larger one).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 22 Oct 2009 04:38 PM 
I am facinated by abandon buildings. They make my road trip to Marty's every year enjoyable. Between Flastaff and Alburquerque alone there are hundres of abandon building. Gas stations, Resturants, Houses, work shops. Who built them? Why did they build them there? Who was the last one to live in them? Why did they leave? One comes to mind on the way to Alburquerque is a stone structure with no roof, no widow frames, no doors. It is a one room building. Who lived there? Maybe some cowboys tending cattle long before roads or freeways. I think I will have one of those on my Layout.

So am I. I would love to have the opportunity to further explore the old Route 66. I already have several books on it. And you brought up a good point. At least one of the other modelers on this site does this--incorporate obviously long-abandoned buildings (in this case, old mine structures) into his layout. I will consider doing the same for mine. The problem will be how to protect it out there. I long ago learned that EVERYTHING has to be protected from rain and snow and, if possible, the sun as well, or its lifespan is decidedly limited. 







image of abandoned structures at Silver City, Idaho


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## sschaer (Jan 2, 2008)

darn... how could i miss this great thread ? seems like i should drop in here more often.... 


great stories and pics as usual. really makes me consider coming up to copper center again in 2010


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Nest time I have to go to Albuquerque I will try and stop and take some pic's of abandon buildings and post them


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 24 Oct 2009 08:53 AM 
Nest time I have to go to Albuquerque I will try and stop and take some pic's of abandon buildings and post them 
By all means please take the time to do so. Make sure they are LARGE images, too.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

What a strange weather year it has been. Right after winter moved in, it moved on and warmed up. I am tempted to once again pull out a train or two. If this warming trend continues (if it is ABOVE FREEZING this time of year it is a WARMING trend !) I will be out there !


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

It used to be that by Halloween we were looking at thirty BELOW zero ! That's only a week away, yet as of this morning we are just above freezing. In fact, the latest temperature projections for this area are relatively mild. Will the CRD model railroad be caught running in November, folks ? THAT would be a first ! We will just have to wait and see . . .


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Melting sea ice will warm you.... moisture in the air traps heat. 
Clear nights are colder than overcast.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 24 Oct 2009 11:02 AM 
Melting sea ice will warm you.... moisture in the air traps heat. 
Clear nights are colder than overcast. Sure. However we are already beyond the point where any sea ice surrounding Alaska is going to be melting. Also, last night WAS a clear night and a relatively warm one. That goes against conventional wisdom for this time of year. Of course, what causes the melting sea ice AND what accounts for ANY warming in this area this time of year are the Pacific Ocean currents. I have to wonder if the Pacific decadal oscillation[/b] (PDO), the most likely cause of the recent warming trends in Alaska, is also responsible for THIS. In any case, it IS happening.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The last train to move was this AmTrak passenger consist, which had been parked on the outside South Cantwell siding for the last two weeks. I moved the Genisis into place for this operation. I must say that THIS is ONE smooth-operating engine ! 
 Here the AmTrak moves through one of the tightest curves on my layout--even AFTER I widened it. There is only so much room in the Cantwell area for curves ! 
Nevertheless, the new curve configuration, after I worked on it one more time that same day, proved to be adequate to handle these large passenger consists.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The AmTrak consist follows the Cantwell main line along the north wall as it proceeds east. 
This is that same line that was earlier blocked because I had the Great Northern consist parked here. 

 
 AmTrak passes the Milwaukee Road and Burlington Northern heavyweight passenger consists that are parked here in Cantwell for the winter.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

AmTrak leaves the Cantwell RR Yard & Industrial Complex (well, not quite yet !) as it heads toward Cicely.
 Thus, the newly-constructed Cantwell area is officially abandoned for the winter. It will not see activity again until mid-April.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

And, thus, in what will probably be the last run of the season, the AmTrak passenger consist reaches East Sleetmute Junction on its way to Cicely. 
 
 It enters the Cicely north passenger track from the east.
 
 And it pulls into its position on the north Cicely siding.Behind it, the door is closed and the tracks leading in and out of Cicely are sealed off. 

Once the passenger consist was parked I removed the locomotive to warm winter storage.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 23 Oct 2009 06:54 AM 
Eek! You've been visited by the 25ft high abominable snow kitty! I thought those only lived in Kamchatka. 











In fact, I have clear (UNfuzzy) photographic evidence that these elusive, mythical creatures really DO exist ! Images taken in 2006 on the then-new GN line near the East Loop. Could this be the stomping grounds for these abominable snow kitties ?


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

::waits for Blackburn to break out the 'Halloween Express', possibly followed by the 'November Special'::


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Abominable Snow kitty? 25 ft high.. You got any of that stuff left your smoking? Home Grown? Do you share? Seeds?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 24 Oct 2009 04:51 PM 
Abominable Snow kitty? 25 ft high.. You got any of that stuff left your smoking? Home Grown? Do you share? Seeds? 
Just remember, it was Tom Ruby, not I who came up with THAT one ! I just grabbed the potential story line and ran with it.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 23 Oct 2009 11:51 AM 
Posted By blackburn49 on 22 Oct 2009 09:49 PM 


 
This photo also shows some acquisitions I made this fall, mainly the truck carrier and a couple of 1971 GTO muscle cars. Much of my Cicely details consist of various 1:24 Danbury and Franklin mint cars and trucks. Some of these go back 15 years, but I have moved to enhance the collection in the last few months when I found some new issues by both companies that fit a niche for me here on the Cicely layout. The '59 Cadillac Eldorado is the closest I could get to the tan one provided for Maurice Minnifield for his role as the town mover and shaker in the Northern Exposure television series. Still in the works is a reproduction of his Cicely log home, which should be in place here by early next year. (click image for a much-larger one). 
The frustrating part is when all these great collectibles--the Franklin & Danbury Mint cars and trucks such as those you see here, arrive late in the fall because neither I nor anyone else will have a chance to appreciate them again for many, many months. They will sit here in the Cicely model housing structure waiting for summer to return. Sometime in April I will once again be operating the railroad through here on a regular basis. Meanwhile there it all sits. After a few months the building will be snowed in and all but inaccessible. 

Of course, this is what used to happen in real life to some of the towns along the CRNW and the WPRy systems. The towns would see the trains go before winter had a chance to gain a firm hold over the land. Then the only access would be by dog sled or snow shoe. Then in the mid 1920s the small planes arrived on the scene to deliver mail and supplies to these isolated communities. Thus, every town or village would have a supply of av gas, regular gas and diesel stored up for the winter. Someone, usually working for the Alaska Road Commission or under contract to them, would keep the airfield plowed for what was usually weekly or twice-monthly plane service. Thus the villages were no longer as isolated as they had once been. 


When you watched the old television series _Northern Exposure_ you would often see Maggie landing or taking off in a small plane on some remote strip (the air strips are usually some distance from the town, but not always). This is actually very typical Alaska. In some places that is all there is in the winter.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

In the first Season of Ice Road Truckers in one epasode they hauled in fuel in 55 gal drums for the air port. That was for the planes that brought supplied during the winter.


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, 

Great documentary of your "end of season operations". There is nothing like moving trains with a purpose to give you a feeling of satisfaction. I really enjoyed this. 

Your turntable on Page 6 is a new picture to me. Has that been in place a long time? I just don't remember it before. 

Thanks for sharing.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rgolding on 26 Oct 2009 07:19 AM 
Ron, 

Great documentary of your "end of season operations". There is nothing like moving trains with a purpose to give you a feeling of satisfaction. I really enjoyed this. 

Your turntable on Page 6 is a new picture to me. Has that been in place a long time? I just don't remember it before. 

Thanks for sharing. 

I had the 48" turntable pit cut in place in 2007. Here it is in early 2008 when I was setting up the base for the northern "Cold Pass" line:   There is no turntable motor nor any kind of turntable mechanism as of yet. The reason I installed one is because a former Cle Elum resident told me that the trains were turned around somewhere north of downtown Roslyn (my prototype for the Cicely model) by means of a turntable. So I added the space for one to the west of Cicely. When I figure out how to set it up, this too will be an operating turntable.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 26 Oct 2009 06:36 PM 
Posted By rgolding on 26 Oct 2009 07:19 AM 
Ron, 

Great documentary of your "end of season operations". There is nothing like moving trains with a purpose to give you a feeling of satisfaction. I really enjoyed this. 

Your turntable on Page 6 is a new picture to me. Has that been in place a long time? I just don't remember it before. 

Thanks for sharing. 

I had the 48" turntable pit cut in place in 2007. Here it is in early 2008 when I was setting up the base for the northern "Cold Pass" line:
  There is no turntable motor nor any kind of turntable mechanism as of yet. The reason I installed one is because a former Cle Elum resident told me that the trains were turned around somewhere north of downtown Roslyn (my prototype for the Cicely model)  by means of a turntable. So I added the space for one to the west of Cicely. When I figure out how to set it up, this too will be an  operating turntable.
_The base of this turntable is a heavy steel. It has a roughly 6 inch hole in the center--more than enough for me to mount a motor from below in order to turn the track bridge.  I would welcome any suggestions as to how to go about doing this. It may very well be one of my projects for the upcoming season. _ 



Here it is after I added the Cold Pass Track in 2008:  Then in 2009 I changed the arrangement of the track on the east side in order to accommodate a bypass track that allowed me to run trains from Cold Pass directly over to the GN Mainline on the right in order to avoid running those trains through Cicely. Until then part of the mainline necessarily went over that turntable. 
 This arrangement works quite well, allowing for a reasonable flow without unnecessarily complicating operations. As long as the trains HAD to run through Cicely I had problems because inevitably something had to be moved up the tracks. Another wards, I needed those lines within Cicely to PARK more consists. 
  

These pictures were taken Monday, Oct 26. What snow there was had melted by mid-afternoon, as seen here. Temperatures remain unseasonably warm for this part of Alaska.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

There is a Red looking board sitting amongst the gray boards In a triangular area. Do you plan on filling that in with like a town or a Hill or industry? Of even flat land of some kind?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 27 Oct 2009 01:04 AM 


There is a Red looking board sitting amongst the gray boards In a triangular area. Do you plan on filling that in with like a town or a Hill or industry? Of even flat land of some kind? 



Actually, there are TWO red-painted boards in view. That was the day I was down below painting my remaining unpainted but exposed track supports and vertical supports that hold up the track supports. All I had was red. I figured (correctly) that it would be my very last chance to paint ANYTHING outside before it got too cold. As it turned out, I was right. PROBABLY the triangular piece will turn into something of significance (location of a small RR structure of some kind). If not, eventually it too will likely turn gray !


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The snow was falling last night. Typically in the Copper Valley, snowfall is light. One or two inches seems to be normal. That was the case last night. Probably this is the one which will stick. If it were any other year, _this_ snowfall WOULD be the one. This year, who knows?  It has been a strange one, weather-wise.    It is just a tad more snow than we experienced last week when I ran that snow plow. This stuff is also wetter and heavier. If it does not melt down, then my last run has already been made for the season. 
  The now-deceased _Ed Knoebel_'s Bridge to Nowhere is once again covered in snow. 
  And West Sleetmute Junction is buried in it--including the noted red areas !
  

So we will see. If there is to be a last-last run, it will have to be very soon or not at all . . .


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Ron. 
Nice update (plus some more history!!!)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Duncan on 27 Oct 2009 07:05 PM 
Thanks, Ron. 
Nice update (plus some more history!!!) 

Yes. Once I KNOW that I will not be running outside for the duration, this thread is then played out. It's beginning to look like this was it.  But I have not given up quite yet.


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, nice pic in your signature, I noticed you changed it, very colorful! I saw the northern lights in Canada once, but not any color in it. I think thats from the show Northern Exposure correct?

tom h


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tom h on 27 Oct 2009 08:39 PM 
Ron, nice pic in your signature, I noticed you changed it, very colorful! I saw the northern lights in Canada once, but not any color in it. I think thats from the show Northern Exposure correct?
 
tom h 



I came up with design to represent my Phase II lineup of trains some months ago and had Stan Cedarleaf print me up a group of stencils for some of them. Haven't gotten around to installing any yet. The moose design is NOT from _Northern Exposure_ , although it certainly has that look, doesn't it?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The included Indian head symbol is one I used on one of my cars to represent my original model railroad, the Copper River & Northwestern:


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rgolding on 26 Oct 2009 07:19 AM 
Ron, 

Great documentary of your "end of season operations". There is nothing like moving trains with a purpose to give you a feeling of satisfaction. I really enjoyed this. 

Your turntable on Page 6 is a new picture to me. Has that been in place a long time? I just don't remember it before. 

Thanks for sharing. 

Just an addenda on this question about my turntable:  I indicated that the turntable is there because a person who had grown up in the area (Roslyn-Cle Elum) had told me it was. Below is the map indicating the position where George Schooley pointed out as the location of the turntable. The map I am using here is the one I brought to him. It shows a rail line heading straight north from downtown Roslyn as it passed Mine #1. TT = turntable location; R1= the location of Mine #1 tipple (see photo below) and the tip of the north-pointing arrow is the approximate location of downtown Roslyn. The map is one which shows the underground coal mines with the Northern Pacific Rails.  I have never seen any photos of this turntable, nor seen any other reference to it, but I do believe George--a man in his 70s who lived near the NP depot at Cle Elum. 
  

I found this photo on an NP discussion forum site. As near as I can determine it is a modern (1950s) version of the Roslyn Coal Mine #1 tipple just to the immediate east of Roslyn itself. The tracks here actually seem to line up somewhat with the older map above (click either image for a much-larger one).  When I observed the site there was nothing left there except a lot of broken up concrete. The location of the tipple, however, was obvious.  I wanted to provide this because some of you have probably been to Roslyn Washington and will find this particularly interesting. 



I must say I am intrigued that now I not only have a  phantom Roslyn depot (it shows up on an early drawing but George said he had never seen it) and a phantom turntable. The only place I can find where the turntable could have possibly been located is just north of the sharp westerly turn of highway 903 as you will see in the following post. 



The notion of the phantom turntable fascinates me. I had already spent some time pouring over what maps I could find of the area trying to figure out how and where the locomotives turned around.  Obviously, there HAD to be such a place. Where was it?  I figured it had to be somewhere north of mine #3 near Ronald, north of Roslyn. But George says Roslyn IS the location of the turn-around. Now I have pinpointed it !


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is how it would look on the aerial:  There are not too many places with enough room for such a turntable.  After carefully studying this aerial, I realized that the spur does show up. I have traced it to the likely point where a turntable probably existed. In fact, one can even make out a partial footprint of a turntable at point TT (*).  The asterisk at Ros #1 is the tipple location for that mine. "B" is the location of The Brick Tavern in downtown Roslyn. "M" is Maurice's log home on the hill, which happens to be NNW of Roslyn Mine #1 (click):


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The CRD definitely transitioned into winter when November hit, but still nearly two weeks behind normal winter arrival time. When I took this picture from my solarium (the place where I winter-over my fuchsias that I feature in my railroad-theme beergarden) it was at least 15  below out there, and probably closer to 30 below. Prior to the arrival of the cold weather, a series of snowstorms succeeded in shutting down my outdoor rail line for good for the season. It is now thoroughly iced-in out there. All the trains are parked for the season, although I may take a few of the shorter ones out to run on the upper inside line later on. The Cicely town model is buried in snow, as is the beergarden fountain area. We could always have a Chinook that could melt a lot of that snow, but those are inevitably followed by incredibly frigid temperatures that tend to plummet into the minus 50 range. So I am hoping for NO Chinooks this winter. 
  

click image for larger one


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron it's all beautiful, looking at the pic but brrrrrrrrr, I'm sure glad I'm in Florida where it's nice and warm. 

Randy


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

50 below is a bit chilly, Ron. 

I experienced -60 wind chill when stationed at Thule, Greenland but it only lasted a day or so...







One storm blew the weather instruments away at 125 mph on South Mountain. We didn't launch any weather balloons that day or night.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep some nice looking country but not for I. To cold for me. Great looking RR you got going that's for sure. You defiantly would have to have a hobby to keep sane during the winters. Later RJD


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 25 Nov 2009 02:57 PM 
Yep some nice looking country but not for I.  To cold for me.  Great looking RR you got going that's for sure.  You defiantly would have to have a hobby to keep sane during the winters.  Later RJD 

Sometimes that hobby makes all the difference in the world even if I have to spend more than half of the year (a LOT more than half of the year) just planning for the NEXT season !


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 25 Nov 2009 02:57 PM 
Yep some nice looking country but not for I.  To cold for me.  Great looking RR you got going that's for sure.  You defiantly would have to have a hobby to keep sane during the winters.  Later RJD 

  Well thanks for the compliment. That model railroad represents MANY years of planning. What you are seeing is the now-completed Phase II layout. Phase III will be forthcoming, but it seems increasingly UNLIKELY that I will be able to make much progress next season due to other matters that will likely take precedence. HOWEVER, it is definitely NOT over.  I don't think this climate is for but a handful of people. Even as I write this I am stateside visiting the folks for Thanksgiving where it is considerably warmer than Copper Center. And I have to admit that I do appreciate the much milder Pacific Northwest climate.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rlvette on 25 Nov 2009 01:47 PM 
Ron it's all beautiful, looking at the pic but brrrrrrrrr, I'm sure glad I'm in Florida where it's nice and warm. 

Randy 

Similarly, I am quite sure I could not survive in YOUR climate for very long. On the other hand, I could definitely find a way to fit in living in the southwest--Nevada or Arizona--as long as it is the HIGH desert country !


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 25 Nov 2009 01:51 PM 
50 below is a bit chilly, Ron.  
 
I experienced -60 wind chill when stationed at Thule, Greenland but it only lasted a day or so...







  One storm blew the weather instruments away at 125 mph on South Mountain.  We didn't launch any weather balloons that day or night. 











I can only imagine you guys simply hunkering down way out there under those very extreme conditions. I can recall situations like that when I was on the North Slope Remarkably, the ravens were still out there swirling around in those winds. I have held those birds in awe ever since. "Not fit for man nor beast" does not seem to apply to ravens.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have just returned to Anchorage from a visit to the folks in Oregon over Thanksgiving week. Winter conditions have shut down the road between Anchorage and Copper Center. That is RARE.  Also, I am told that high winds destroyed the blinds I have on the exterior of the Cicely model structure to protect the model from UV rays.  So far  it has been a warmer than usual winter which usually is also accompanied by wind storms. We will see what the rest of the winter brings.  Meanwhile I am on hold here in Anchorage until road conditions improve.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

While sitting here at the computer in Anchorage I have now seen TWO references to the closure of the Alyeska Pipeline in 2018 unless other sources of oil are found. This is the first time I have seen this in print.  That SHOULD send out alarm signals to any rational person.  


On a brighter note, I _do_ have plans to eventually add a model of an oil pipeline construction camp from the 1970s to the model railroad.  I was part of the original construction project in '75, '76 and '77.  
  

The  Alyeska oil pipeline near Tonsina, 20 miles south of Copper Center. Photo taken during construction days, late 70s.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

They are running out of oil on the north slope?









Should we start hording gasoline in mason jars?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 02 Dec 2009 09:40 AM 
They are running out of oil on the north slope?








 
Should we start hording gasoline in mason jars?










Not only are we running out of oil on the North Slope, but the oil companies have quit drilling on all state lands. Some limited drilling is planned off-shore. I have warned about that on other forums that if new oil fields are not developed soon, the pipeline will HAVE to be shut down and that will be the end of it. Looks like this one is going the way of historic Kennecott.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 02 Dec 2009 08:06 AM 
I have just returned to Anchorage from a visit to the folks in Oregon over Thanksgiving week. Winter conditions have shut down the road between Anchorage and Copper Center. That is RARE. Also, I am told that high winds destroyed the blinds I have on the exterior of the Cicely model structure to protect the model from UV rays. So far it has been a warmer than usual winter which usually is also accompanied by wind storms. We will see what the rest of the winter brings. Meanwhile I am on hold here in Anchorage until road conditions improve. 

While waiting for the road conditions between Anchorage and Copper Center to improve, my "check engine" light went on in my truck. It should be out of the Ford dealership shop today so I can resume the trip. Road conditions have improved as the temperatures dropped back to normal (in the sub-zeros in CC). It has been a long trip in the sense that I have been away from CC much longer than normal. All along the way I have been on the lookout for detail items for the Cicely model. Of those I have picked up, the most notable are several items from the Lemax Village Carnival series, such as this one:










which is close to the right scale for my purposes. I have found several of these carnival rides from LeMax this year. I started collecting them last year for Cicely. Most have lights and motors, although I do not anticipate using those features. It is a good series that I recommend for anyone who is looking for something like this for their layout, as long as it is protected from the elements. Mine are only exposed to the cold air, which does not affect them.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a picture I took through the glass late last summer focusing on one segment of the ever-growing Cicely carnival: 
 Fun stuff !


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is another view showing more of the Cicely carnival area. The ferris wheel was one of those limited-edition models made for g-scale.
I had already started this carnival area when the first of those LeMax Carnival series models came out about two years ago (if I recall correctly). 

  Obviously, I was able to take advantage of some of the Bachmann circus train products for this part of the layout. LGB had some good stuff as well. Many of the animals are Schleich, which are very well done and often close the the useful scale we need for these layouts. Every time I visit the folks in Oregon I go to a couple of the stores that stock these animals: great stuff !


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Michaels crafts stores carry the LeMax carnival series, but only through the Christmas season. Below is a new one from the series which I just purchased at an Anchorage Michael's outlet. I really like the art-deco design of this particular model. And the scale is right, too: about $85.00 as you see it here.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Finally was able to escape the clutches of Anchor-town today, safely and uneventfully arriving in Copper Center in time to begin work on my part of the Christmas decorations in the bar. I had a large USA Trains consist of GN passenger cars to move out of the way so I could bring the Christmas-season rolling stock back in. Those will be in place tomorrow. Right now they're all sitting in a VERY cold Uncle Nicolai's shop (it should be about minus 10 in there right now!). 
I have a lot to do in preparation for whatever activities occur at the bar on the 5th when my 60th birthday rolls around. I don't ordinarily do them at the CRD. The only birthdays I actually recall celebrating as an adult were my 30th and my 50th. So here comes another marker. Then that's it for another ten years. I do have a small band coming for this. Don't do that too often either. Regrettably, the one thing I can not do is run the overhead trains. That huge GN consist is now blocking the tracks (only place I could think of stashing it on short notice) to make way for the seasonal train.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By blackburn49 on 05 Dec 2009 12:18 AM 
Finally was able to escape the clutches of Anchor-town today, safely and uneventfully arriving in Copper Center in time to begin work on my part of the Christmas decorations in the bar. I had a large USA Trains consist of GN passenger cars to move out of the way so I could bring the Christmas-season rolling stock back in. Those will be in place tomorrow. Right now they're all sitting in a VERY cold Uncle Nicolai's shop (it should be about minus 10 in there right now!). 
I have a lot to do in preparation for whatever activities occur at the bar on the 5th when my 60th birthday rolls around. I don't ordinarily do them at the CRD. The only birthdays I actually recall celebrating as an adult were my 30th and my 50th. So here comes another marker. Then that's it for another ten years. I do have a small band coming for this. Don't do that too often either. Regrettably, the one thing I can not do is run the overhead trains. That huge GN consist is now blocking the tracks (only place I could think of stashing it on short notice) to make way for the seasonal train. 


I'm glad you were able to get back home...

If you were still stuck tomorrow I had a reservation for you on this.....









They said snow doesn't bother them to much, but the car might wander...


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 05 Dec 2009 12:44 AM 
I'm glad you were able to get back home...

If you were still stuck tomorrow I had a reservation for you on this.....









They said snow doesn't bother them to much, but the car might wander...



perfect !


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If the wheather is good and the car runs fine How long does it take to drive from you place to Anchorage?


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

A hearty and healthy happy birthday Ron, from the right coast to the real left coast. Have a great day.
Paul


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad to hear that you finally made it home, hope that the destruction to the Cicley shades wasn't too extensive.


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, glad you did finally make it home, there is no place like home.... yea I was wondering about the damage also, do you go out and fix it? Or do you have to wait till spring.

Tom H


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

There's no place like home.
There's no place like home.

Happy 60th!


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Happy Birthday Ron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mhutson (Jan 2, 2008)

Happy birthday, Ron! 

Cheers, 
Matt


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