# Building my first layout



## Tnwhite (Jul 10, 2012)

Hi everyone. I used to run some simple G scale layouts inside, but I'm going to take a whack at building a small outdoor layout. I have two Bachmann Big Hauler trains, and one of the small LGB starter kits. All of which are 10+ years old. I'm mainly wanting to invest heavily in the actual layout now, and eventually buy the Aristocraft Norfolk Southern Dash 9 with a few cars. I don't have a massive space (maybe 20x20) right now, so my layout will be pretty small until I move sometime in the next 2 years. I found a set of 12 and 16 LGB 16000 (8' diameter) track on Ebay for a great price, and they came in today in great condition so I only have a few straight pieces left to buy for my layout idea. I've done a lot of research, but I still have some big questions if you guys don't mind helping me out. Also, any/all feedback/criticism/tips would be greatly appreciated. I know 8' is cutting it close for some of the larger locos, but like I said - kinda short on space.

1. Assuming I only want to run 1 train at a time (Eventually the Aristocraft Dash 9), what power supply should I buy? I'm planning on sticking to straight up track power for now, and eventually upgrade to DDC. For the time being I'm just wanting to amass track/rolling stock/buildings.
2. I've read about joining tracks, but how should I do it for now? I'll be moving in a couple years to a house with a bigger yard, so should I just leave the tracks naturally coupled or put some type of plastic track joiner on them?
3. Should I elevate my layout? I've seen layouts both at ground level and elevated by a retaining wall. Is it worth dishing out the nearly $2 per retaining wall block to elevate the entire layout? I've also seen where people used old railroad ties cut into ~4' sections and stood straight up to elevate the layout - any thoughts on that? I wouldn't mind building a retaining wall of sorts now even if I am moving soon because I can just take the track and leave a pretty little garden/pond thing there.
4. For multiple loops, should I have a different power supply for each one or get a really good power supply that can split the output? I'll probably add a smaller loop to the inside of this one using the track from the LGB starter set.

Here's my proposed track layout for the beginning of my layout:










Thanks
Tom W


----------



## BuswayBob (Jun 22, 2012)

You might consider battery power for outside. Lot less maintenance and they've (batteries) have come along way. You can then use all aluminum flex track and don't worry about joints or electrical. You can then upgrade to steam in the future. I'm also using ripped composite bender board, glued edge to edge for my track bed. Also installing water feature with train going over river (actual) at two different spots. Also using some geodesic foam for some of my mountains and tunnels.


----------



## Tnwhite (Jul 10, 2012)

Posted By BuswayBob on 13 Jul 2012 10:54 PM 
You might consider battery power for outside. Lot less maintenance and they've (batteries) have come along way. You can then use all aluminum flex track and don't worry about joints or electrical. You can then upgrade to steam in the future. I'm also using ripped composite bender board, glued edge to edge for my track bed. Also installing water feature with train going over river (actual) at two different spots. Also using some geodesic foam for some of my mountains and tunnels. 
I thought about that, but right now I don't have any battery-powered locos. Can you convert existing locos to use battery powered or would I have to go ahead and buy a new one? All I have are the two old Bachmann Big Hauler's and the small LGB one. I was also going to build a tunnel on the bottom right with a waterfall coming off of it into a small pond.


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi 

The Dash 9 will run fin on 8 foot diameter curves as that is what I am running. 

As for a power supply I recommend the MRC 10 amp http://www.ebay.com/itm/MRC-POWER-G...425428?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35bb1bc2d4 

Use track joint clamps 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-SPLIT-JA...196507?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item53edb2b11b 

If you're over 50 I say elavate your railroad as getting down and back up will get harder and harder as you grow older. 

If you are going to run straight DC and want to operate more than one train on different loops, you're going to need more than one power supply. 

The items listed above from ebay are examples. I am not selling either of the items.


----------



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello Tom 
I like your design bbut don't forget ot add a couple of switches so you can spot some freight cars around the layout at your eventual industries. Or put in passing siding or 2 for more action. 
A 8' diameter track is good but 10' is better I know because this Spring and yesterday I have been swapping out my 5' curves to 8' and the 8's to 10' diameter wherever I can on my layout. It is a pain and in some spots like a long tunnel I am stuck with the 5' due to my short sightedness and being short on space. All but my 2-6-6-2 will fit through though. I now understand bigger is better. 
When you pick up your straight pieces make sure to get as long as you can to eliminate the amount of connections. Don't get 5 12" pieces but get one 5' piece instead. 
1 For power over my 500' of track I use a Crest switching power source with a Aristo train engineer so I can walk around with the train. I can also run 3 engines at once off this power pack. Of course when I stop one they all stop. Depending on how much track you end up with you might want to send out several feeder wires. I have 6 spread out. 
2 Rail joiners are expensive but they make things easy by allowing you to lift out a piece of track without disturbing your whole RR. I use a combination of rail clamps and rail joiners. When I put down track with the joiners I make sure they are tight by squeezing them a bit with pliers then use a dab of conductive grease. The grease will keep the brass from tarnishing and losing conductivity over time. If you do have one that fails you can always use a over the joiner rail clamp to tighten it up again. 
99% of mine have been fine for 5 years now. 
3 I believe a elevated RR needs less maintenace plus the less you need to get down on the ground the more your knees will thank you at any age. I built on a natural slope and use a combination of natural rock, benchwork, and cement retaining wall block. What is nice about the retaing wall blocks is they are easy to stack and move if neccesary but they are only about 6" tall which means you will need alot of them to gain any significant height. You could always cheat a bit like I have, build you wall then leave out a section to form a canyon which the train crew will need to build a bridge for which of course will add interest to your RR. 
4 Why have 2 seperate loops unless of course you want it that way. I would build the 2 loops but have the tracks connect somewhere so you can have one train enjoy the whole layout. If you use one power source with a enough amps you can run the 2 trains on the same tracks. You could also set up electrical blocks on your sidings so you can park one train and keep the other going. 
I'm sure many other guys will jump in with ideas and advice. 
Good luck and Happy RRing 
Todd


----------



## BuswayBob (Jun 22, 2012)

As long as there is room in your tender,conversion to battery can be done on any engine, old or new


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd ignore the battery mafia (at least for now). I'd also ignore the 10 foot + guys. You gave your legitimate reasons, and it's your layout, not theirs. 

I'm a big fan of KISS (Keep it simple and solid). 

You said you'd be moving in a few years, but you'll still need a solid roadbed. In this case I think the ladder track method would be the easiest (in the sense of both fastest to level and least difficult to tear up and turn the spot back into a regular garden.) IIRC the support posts can be real short almost to the point of looking like it was at ground level, or much taller if you prefer 

Don't plant too many things that you'll be upset to leave when you go. 

Pt 2. As long as you remember to water them some slow growing trees can be planted in larger pots which you then set in the ground. 

You might want to look at landscape timbers if you want to raise the whole layout.Remember, the fewer changes you make, the less the next owner will have to undo because they hate it, which makes selling the place easier. 

Rail clamps, definitely. One per joint if expense is a problem. Conductivity grease is also a good idea as well. It keeps the water out. 

If you can afford a 10 amp power supply (or find one at your price), great! If you can't, as long as your starter pack is NOT a Bachmann, it should at least get you through the teething stages. (I still use my Crest/Aristo 5400s)


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The "lots less maintenance" is not true. 

If you go the cheapest way with track power and ordinary joiners and brass track, you CAN have maintenance issues. Add in rail clamps and multiple feeders, or solder jumpers (free) and the track will only need cleaning once in a while. 

The other side of the coin is to look at the whole picture, battery operated locos take MORE maintenance than sparkies, since you first have to modify the loco, usually give up the smoke unit, make room for the batteries, but constantly maintain the batteries on a charger, and they will go bad if you don't keep them charged and they will wear out eventually and require replacement. 

I have track power and stainless track, I have no maintenance issues with track power, don't have to charge batteries, my trains can run forever without running out of power, I can run smoke units and sound units without affecting run time and I can run really small locos that have no room for batteries. 


So, before accepting the glib statement that battery power is much less maintenance, look at both sides of the equation in depth. Also, if you have a number of locos, it is NOT cheaper. 

Greg


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I remembered I had this page while responding to another newbie. I thought perhaps you might find some of it useful as well. http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/tips2.html


----------



## Tnwhite (Jul 10, 2012)

Awesome, thanks for the feedback everyone. I think I'll stay track power for the time being, and the MRC 10 amp was the power supply I had been looking at. I'm still in my early twenties, so I think I can deal with not have an elevated layout for just a couple years. I got permission to use a different part of the yard, so I have a little more space and think I can incorporate some 10' curves, and I should have plenty of room to put in both a switch yard and a nice water feature. 

One more thing - can anyone recommend a good track layout software? Right now I'm using the free version of AnyRail 4 and I'm considering buying it, but I just thought I'd ask to see if anyone had other suggestions before I drop $60 on it. I really like having the ability to lay out specific pieces from a specific manufacturer and then click a single button to see what my 'shopping list' is. 

& Greg - you have an amazing website BTW. It showed up a lot on Google during my research  

Tom


----------



## BuswayBob (Jun 22, 2012)

Tom,
Can't let the day go by without adding a few comments re: batteries, flextrack, etc. Like you, I am just starting out, but with a lot of chalenges. My outdoor layout is being built on a down slope and a 15% grade on the other. In other words, a side hill. The most important advise I can give you is talk to the pros and test ideas. A UTube video that is an absolute must is: www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCTPHbjpPcsTom Miller is the single most talented model RR'er that I have ever met. I took a trip to see his magnificent layout in Oregon about two months ago. In addition to his F Scale layout shown in the video, he has also HAND BUILT 5 actual operating steam engines that ride out (or in) around a 3 mile track on his property.
I am not advocating any of my various selections. I am only telling you why I made my selections.
Now to my selection of batteries for power: My closest available power supply is about 500 feet away which means installing new underground electrical circuits. despite the comments of one gentleman, I do have smoke and sound.
For roadbed, I tested the ladder track method and found it not nearly and flexible as my edge to edge bender board. I simple rip a 4in composite bender board in two with a skill saw with a guide. I can now place the 20 ft long 2" bender board anywhere I want to form whatever curve it want and change it as I go. I have previous built a pressure treated 2 X 4 worktable with all my vertical supports in position. I will ultimately wide up with a grade that will not exceed 2 degrees anywhere in the layout. Using cove adhesive, I then glue the next bender board into position along side my first one. You will find this technique used by Tom Miller for his indoor installation, except he used masonite.
Aluminum FlexTrack (for me) is the only way to go and as the previous contributors have suggested; get it preassembled. I fine that I can bend it by hand without a bender. Although, I will be trying my bender for my next phase just to see the difference. Nothing wrong with using stainless steel if you have a few bucks as it far more costly.


----------



## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Just another thought, from someone who has been just "beginning" since 1979...Ha. You could also look at both track power and battery power (as a slow conversion). As someone once told me, you don't get into large scale trains and worry about the expense (otherwise you would stick with the starter set run under the Christmas tree every year). One of the issues with battery can be the inability to use a smoke unit (unless it has its own power supply), but if you have friends and want to run on their layout...then the battery system will allow you to use your equipment on their track, regardless of power configuration or control systems...just a thought. Outdoor wiring and track maintenance can also be less (Swifter cleaning pads are quick and cheap). I am also building a new layout in a small space in Sun City, Arizona about the same amount of space that you have (my other layouts are in Flagstaff...love the snow). I due agree with several of the comments that eight foot mininums [LGB 1600, R-5, 2350mm) are probably your best starting point. I've got some smaller four foot diameter stuff inside, but that is more because of space constraints. Not sure you mentioned where this is located, but obviously different climates have different issues. I have to worry about expansion and contraction of rails...not rain. I also think that having something elevated, even slightly, makes it easier to work on and depending upon your landscaping, it can be easier to retro water features, add bridges and other items of interest. I think you've been given a lot of great stuff to think about and I'm sure you'll have fun building it...that is why you are doing this, right?


----------



## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

You may want to check out AnyRail, http://www.anyrail.com/index_en.html. It was $60 and works sort of like Visio. I used it to plan my indoor layout and found it relatively inexpensive, easy to use and rather full featured (for my needs at least).


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom:

There are pros and cons for all power systems. For many years I only used DC track power. I now have three engines that I have converted to battery power. I converted those to battery so that I could take some of my trains to other layouts. My layout is relatively short, so my trains are rarely more than an engine and up to about 12 cars. With battery I can go to a friends layout what is 600'double tracked main line. There I can pull longer and heavier trains. The first engine I converted was an Aristo Mallet. At Jim's (Dr Rivet's) layout I pull a 34 car train with the Mallet; 32 LGB iron ore cars, a battery car and a caboose. Likewise I can pull longer D&RGW freight and passenger trains out there with my Ks, than I can at home. Occasionally, I will run the battery engines on my home layout, but most of the time it is DC track power. I use a Bridgeworks power supply with remote control, so I can be anywhere near the layout and control the speed and direction.

Try to find a Garden Railroad club in your area, attend some meetings and pick their brains. As far as your curves go use the largest diameter that will fit into your space an make your passing sidings at least twice as long as you think you will need.

Have fun and enjoy the hobby.

Chuck


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The MRC 10 amp will work well for one loco at a time. The weak spot will be track joints, and conductivity across them. The best way to deal with this is to minimize the number of joints (by buying long sections of track and bending them to fit) or by buying track clamps. But there are other ways that help. Just go to the auto parts stor and get some anti-seize compound, and put a little bit in the track joiner before you put the tracks together. It prevents corrosion. You can also solder the track sections together--cheap and really effective. I've never done it, but others have. 

But don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good! I woul definitely use the anti-seize compound to start out, and see how it goes.


----------



## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Oops, just reread that you already have the free version of AnyRail; so much for my ability to speed read and multitask! Anyway, I don't think you'll regret popping for the full package.


----------



## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

You started out like me so here is my two cents. 
Invest your money in track and joiners, split jaw is best in my opinion. I used the MRC 10amp and still have it. Since your only there a couple years do not worry much with ballast, you can lay it in the dirt and shim things around. Keep it simple and easy to remove. 

My first layout I placed it right on two inch river rock and worked fine. Just had to rake it around to level it. Get the track down and start playing with it, you get your best ideas what you want by running something and seeing how things go.


----------



## RickV (May 25, 2012)

Posted By Tnwhite on 13 Jul 2012 10:03 PM 

1. Assuming I only want to run 1 train at a time (Eventually the Aristocraft Dash 9), what power supply should I buy? I'm planning on sticking to straight up track power for now, and eventually upgrade to DDC. For the time being I'm just wanting to amass track/rolling stock/buildings.
2. I've read about joining tracks, but how should I do it for now? I'll be moving in a couple years to a house with a bigger yard, so should I just leave the tracks naturally coupled or put some type of plastic track joiner on them?
3. Should I elevate my layout? I've seen layouts both at ground level and elevated by a retaining wall. Is it worth dishing out the nearly $2 per retaining wall block to elevate the entire layout? I've also seen where people used old railroad ties cut into ~4' sections and stood straight up to elevate the layout - any thoughts on that? I wouldn't mind building a retaining wall of sorts now even if I am moving soon because I can just take the track and leave a pretty little garden/pond thing there.
4. For multiple loops, should I have a different power supply for each one or get a really good power supply that can split the output? I'll probably add a smaller loop to the inside of this one using the track from the LGB starter set.

Here's my proposed track layout for the beginning of my layout:



Thanks
Tom W


1) For my smallish layout (about 60ft for the main line) I bought the Aristocraft 10 Amp controller (CRE55401) and a 15 Amp switchmode power supply to power it.

2) I've used Aristocraft brass track almost exclusively (except for some 3' lengths of flextrack from AML) and I'm using the screws that come with the joiners. So far the only issues I have had is where the screw hasn't been tighted or I forgot to put it in.

3) Build whatever you feel comfortable with, it's your railway after all. The only advice I would give is to ensure what you do build can be cleaned up and removed when you leave or adds value to the house if it can't.

4) If you are running DC only and do as I suggested in point 1 then you could either get another 10 amp controller or you could get a Radio Control (RCC) system - ie the Aristocraft Revolution and run them both off the same power supply (assuming its big enough).


----------



## Zapf (Jun 8, 2012)

As for track planning programs, you may want to check out SCARM http://www.scarm.info/index_en.html It is a freeware program that I have found to be very useful. 

The track choices include Aristo-Craft (3 types), LGB, Piko, Peco, and perhaps other I didn't recognize.


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm going to go out on a limb here with a pretty blunt "don't"

Don't buy the Aristo short radius turnouts. 30350, 30300, 11200, 11205,11200,11215, etc..... Their OWN stuff doesn't even like them. (Yes, I know, they CAN be made to work reliably, but it's more headaches than the average newb needs to deal with right out of the gate.) The longer radius ones are mostly OK,the wide ones, I'm told are fantastic, but if you need a short one then a LGB will give you a LOT less trouble.


----------



## Tnwhite (Jul 10, 2012)

I revised my layout quite a bit, and right now I'm about to head off to Lowe's to buy some retaining wall blocks to start elevating the layout to 30". I'll add some pics later  

Thanks for all the help so far! 

Tom


----------

