# mountain division



## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have been planning and scheming about some new additions to the Winnegance and Quebec. My current plan is a mountain division with grades that will require the engineer to work the train up and back down. I have started the first few feet of the line using up to three percent grades. I plan to run short trains with radio control. I think geared locos should work the line well, perhaps without radio control. Part of the fun will be the control of the train climbing and descending the line. I plan to have some changes in the grade so it is not too boring.

At Larry's place in Massachuesetts, he had a connection between his upper loop and the lower which looked to be 5% or so, My forney pulled a moderate train up without problems, so I think my 3% grade should be OK.

What are your thoughts about hills and grades?


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I used to have a 2.5% grade between a lower and an upper deck. The challenge was to run my manual Roundhouse Katie so that she would not over-speed going down the grade, and jump the track at the curve on the bottom, and yet make it up the other side. With proper throttle and fire settings she would stop at the bottom, build up sufficient steam pressure, and then walk up the hill. You could count the 1-2-3-4 of the chuffs.










My old Merlin Mayflower didn't do a bad job either...


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric that will look good having a branch off your line that will incorperate a climb. Have you though about a switchback? That would look great on your layout and it would be fun having to go forward and reverse to the top. A friend of mine did that on his layout. I think its between 2-3% grade and each switchback can hold a Shay with two or three log cars. It has 5 or 6 tiers to the top. Its a lot of fun to play on it and different. Cant wait to see what you come up with. Wish I had the hill to do that on my layout.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a 10% grade on my layout, just because everybody says it can't be done







.


Regards


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## deltatrains (Nov 25, 2010)

Hi Henner,
Seen your beautiful work in Sacramento so I know this little rack loco would be no problem for you to build to attack that 10% grade on your layout !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6y2zY0yf9o 
All the best,
Peter.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Well, I built about 30 feet of the extension yesterday. This section has about a 3% grade starting near the switch. My little forney walks right up the hill with a modest train. she can start the train on the grade. coasting down is controlled using the johnson bar with "no" throttle. In full gear she rolls right along, when I notch her up she slows comfortably. She stays put with the train in "neutral." The cars roll down grade at a respectable speed even without ball bearings or clean wheels.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Gosh that is cool!!


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good Eric. Is that going to loop around or is it going to be an out and back? Old #9 is that your scratch built or a converted ruby?


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

My line is an out and back with turning loops. the mountain division will double back towards Winnegance from the far end at Quebec. It will climb up the hill side above the main line. 

Old Number nine is my scratch built Forney based on Roundhouse cylinders.


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## docstoy (May 15, 2009)

This response is a question regarding the post on Oct 11 by HMienhold. 
It is difficult to judge by the camera angle and view, but the grade does not look like 10% as the video progresses. Can you verify that the rise is actually one foot in ten? It's possible the camera was not set at a horizontal reference.

The 1880 Train in Hill City SD, where I was a fireman for 4 years had the steepest trackage in the US carrying non-geared locomotives. 6% in two places. When you come up the crest of a 6% grade and then go down the other side it's like the initial climb up in a roller coaster where you cannot see the descending track. Forget the sight glass, it's either full or empty.
Tom


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm glad you asked, it sure does not look like 10% to me either... I have a 3.4% grade and a 5.5% grade... my 5.5% looks much steeper than what is in the video. 

Greg


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By docstoy on 12 Oct 2012 06:39 AM 
This response is a question regarding the post on Oct 11 by HMienhold. 
It is difficult to judge by the camera angle and view, but the grade does not look like 10% as the video progresses. Can you verify that the rise is actually one foot in ten? It's possible the camera was not set at a horizontal reference.

The 1880 Train in Hill City SD, where I was a fireman for 4 years had the steepest trackage in the US carrying non-geared locomotives. 6% in two places. When you come up the crest of a 6% grade and then go down the other side it's like the initial climb up in a roller coaster where you cannot see the descending track. Forget the sight glass, it's either full or empty.
Tom 
It is 10%. The camera angle might ease it out a little. The cribbing is horizontal. Since I took the video the ground has settled a bit and it is now closer to 8%. 
Regards


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This is a 5.5% downgrade: (see it coming down at :52 )

10% would have to be twice as steep. 



From the side:


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

My grade is definitely much steeper than your 5.5%. Unfortunately I am currently some 5000miles away from my layout, so I cannot send a photo. Not wanting to hijack Eric's thread, on my return I might start a thread about rack railways. 
Regards


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No problem Henner... you need to re-shoot that video with a camera that is level then, because, from the video, my track is way steeper than yours. 

Looking at the fence boards in the background, they are definitely not vertical, seem distorted also (not of a consistent angle), you must also have been using a lens with a bit of distortion (typical wide angle). 

Not that we don't believe you, the video just does not show the grade. 

Sorry for the derailment all !! 

Greg


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Henner-- 
No worries about sharing the thread, I don't take that much ownership anyhow. I do enjoy reading your ideas and experiences. I'm heading out to do some earth moving today.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Well I made some more headway on the line. I got about half the total possible distance...most of the easily done distance. It gets rocky and really rough for the "next" leg. I installed a runaround siding at the end...imagine a log landing along side.

here is a little video showing how it was constructed and a run up and back on the new line


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Eric 
Great Video and really cool layout 
Dennis


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric

I'll second what Dennis said, and the mountain line sure came out nice, really love the switching and the run-around.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Just unreal!! Awesome!!!!!!


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work so far. Loved the moose scene. Looks like it gains some nice elevation.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

nice and thanks for sharing


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

NICE JOB! 
That siding at the top of the hill will be useful for trains having to double the hill - like at the top of Sluice Hill on the Sandy River.


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Talking of mountain railways, here is a clip of Regner's latest live steamer "rack" engine the Rigi 7. This is on Regner's demonstration track at the Frieidrichshafen model show last week: 

https://picasaweb.google.com/114036153408224749848/DernbachOct#5809262947320448162


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

this is how the big boys do it


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

That guy needs to cut his train in half,...mm 

or add traction tires!! 

Ya - D


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Naw he just needed to burn off half the load in his tender, water weighs a lot less as steam! 

Traction tires???? Just what we need retreads beside the tracks! lol 

John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

hey engineers need obstacles too! they could drive around 'em.... hehe 

Like we do on the freeways! 

Dirk!!


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

That wa very cool. Thanks for posting it.


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