# Need some power and sound



## detty43 (Feb 29, 2012)

Really do hope you guys can help me out.I've got a Bachmann Spectrum Narrow Gauge 4-4-0 Centennial and would like to a DCC to it and a good sound unit for it.I'll be running it indoors on a suspended rail with about 60ft. of track.Might add another engine later also.Really dont want to get too crazy with it,just run it every now and then and run it at a med. speed for about an hour or two.Would like the sound to match the speed.Was thinking about digitrax power and a pheonix sound.And also would it be hard to install it myself.Any info or thoughts would be greatly appreciateded.Also have the lighted passenger coaches from Bachmann,is there any other way to get power to them?They are really noisy with the bands riding on the wheels,don't really care about putting batterys in them either.Thanks again.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd recommend ESU's Loksound decoder. Cheaper than buying a digitrax decoder and a phoenix, and since it's sound and motor in one card, it's an easier install. Lichtfield station has the XL 3.5 for $180. You can preview the sounds at ESU's website. They are excellent, but compared to Phoenix, they're a little less well matched to specific models. I would have recommended QSI, but their large scale decoder has been endlessly delayed. 

Those scrapers are REALLY noisy! I tried various methods. The easiest and probably best way, but far from cheap, is to add ball bearing wheels with power pickup. Two axles per car will work. Much less drag and that awful scraping noise is gone. But the ball bearing wheelsets are expensive. 

Another alternative is cheaper but more work. I replaced the Bachmann wheels with aristo wheelsets, which have one wheel insulated and one wheel in contact with the track. Then I inserted a brash bushing into the sideframe (just a small piece of brass tube of the right size) and soldered a wire to the brass bushing. The axle sits in the bushing and transmits power to the wire. It was cheaper for me because I already had some aristo wheels sitting around.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

On small engines, a combination decoder works great. You get motor/light/and sound for one price and much simpler wiring. And opens the door for DCC in the future if that is where you may be heading. 

As people upgrade their systems to the latest technology, they sell off their older systems at a price that makes them affordable to others. 

Find out the maximum current draw of the motor. Train-Li has a small Zimo decoder with sound in stock that is a little larger than a postage stamp and takes up to 30 input volts. 1.2 amp for a motor.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

I would not recommend any decoder with a motor output of 1.2 amps for G scale, totally inadequate for the task. You would be much better off with an ESU XL 3.5 or a Massoth LS motor,lights, and sound decoder. Just like the ESU, the Massoth decoder is relatively easy to install.

Mohammed 
http://www.allaboutlgb.com/ 
http://www.massothusa.com/


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Do you already have a DCC system in place? 

If you don't already know this, decoders have a rating for Amperage, which is the maximum amount of current the decoder can be expected to draw. It varies with the size of the loco and the amount of work it's doing. A small loco by itself draws let's say 1.5 amps. Add cars and the current draw increases; add a lot of cars and some uphill grades and it increases a lot.


Your application seems pretty low-demand, especially if you get rid of those scrapers. If you have a meter than can measure amperage then it would not hurt to check it. If you go with a decoder designed for large scale, like the ESU XL series or the Massoth XL or the large scale ZIMOs, you will be fine. But you might be able to get away with a smaller, cheaper decoder designed to draw less amperage.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mohammed, a blanket "totally inadequate" for G scale is wrong. 

I have several smaller G scale locos running just fine with HO type decoders... it does turn out they are all Zimo's, but that is because of the feature content, the superior motor control, and the better sound amps. 

You make these sweeping statements, and (attempt to) close off economical and worthwhile solutions for others. 

I have direct experience that this can work, for myself and others in the right situations. 

Right now I believe I have 4 or 5 locos with "HO" decoders in them that run just fine and reliably. 

Greg


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## detty43 (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks for all the replys,I think I'm getting a better idea now.One thing I forgot to mention,I do have a MRC Control Master 20 and thats all.So really kinda staring from scratch.It works fine,but it seems like i would go thru alot of hassle trying to put sound in my engine with it,plus like I said i might want to add another engine sometime.Thanks again for all the info you are giving me.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are using a "combination" decoder, it would work fine on DC with your power supply. Later you could go full DCC and still use the same unit to power your DCC system. 

Not a lot of hassle, especially since you would only be using one piece of electronics to move the loco and make the sound. 

Go for it! 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's an interesting situation. If all you want to do is run one loco on a loop, I don't think DCC is necessary. But if it's just one smallish loco on a level loop, you could get away with a relatively inexpensive DCC setup. DCC gets expensive especially as the amperage ratings go up, and as you add wireless capability. But if you are running it in a room, maybe it would be fine to just use a wired throttle. A relatively low amperage DCC system with a wired throttle isn't all that expensive, but it's still a good chunk of dough. 

You could aso just stay on DC. The problem with straight DC is triggering the sounds. Phoenix card can trigger sound from track magnets, but it's kind of limited. QSI and ESU make a box that lets you trigger most of the sounds on DC--basically it sends a set of very rapid polarity changes along the track, changes that are too rapid to change the loco's direction locos but the decoder interprets as commands: for ex. +-+-+- equals horn, -+-+ equals bell, etc. To do this you need to buy each company's interface box. QSI calls theres the 
Quantum Engineer." 

DCC would make it easy to operate all the effects


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I also have HO type Zimo decoders is several engines that have low current draw motors. 

These are perfect for the 2001 series hand cars, chloe/FRR engines. 

I placed one in the LGB rail truck, it had no couplers, so the motor never draws over .75 amps, well under the MX645 maximum current specification. 

I then tried one in the Stainz, and this worked as well as long as I did not tie the smoke to the decoder. 

And these decoders have a 30 volt rating and 3 watts audio output, making them very useful on large scale small single motor engines. 


Also, note that MRC makes a dcc trigger box for one loco running on analog power. I do not have one, perhaps someone that has used one can respond here as to how well it works.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Greg: Motors found in G scale locomotives usually draw a bit more than 1.2 Amps, exceptions are few. A decoder with a motor output of 1.2 Amps will be constantly overdriven in most G scale locomotives; and a constantly overdriven decoder will not last long and would have to be replaced; I personally do not consider that to be economical, and I advise against it. 

Dan: the fellow who started this thread has a Bachmann Spectrum Narrow Gauge 4-4-0 Centennial, I am almost certain that the motor in this particular locomotive does draw more than 1.2 Amps, hence the MX645 is not suitable for him. 

The MX645 may have some limited usefulness in G scale, but with lots of caveats. 


Mohammed 
http://www.allaboutlgb.com 
htttp://www.massothusa.com


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

I have a Heartland 0-4-0 with a DH 123 HO decoder in it and a Cable Car with another DH 123 decoder in it. Both of these have been fine with lots of run time for a couple of years now. I don't even know where I would have hidden a larger decoder in either of these and it certainly would have been a waste of money. I would not have tried to put an HO decoder in my 2-8-8-2 Mallet.
Bob


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Mohammed, my original post asked for a current check of the motor, and then I listed the spec for the decoder. 
I do not have this engine, so I can not say if this would work or not. 
Myself and others have let the forum know what has worked for us on several engines and decoders.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mohammed, I am quite well versed in what motors draw what...read what I said... I gave the caveats.... my objection is exactly as I wrote it, in simple English... I object to your "blanket" statement. 

On this thread, stating the obvious to Dan and Ime is really silly. 

I suggest re-reading the posts, both Dan and I have done our homework and asked the questions and given the proper caveats. Look that word up and re-read what we posted instead of making us repeat ourselves for your benefit. (and the possible confusion of others) 

Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Greg: 

I understand, enough said. 

Mohammed


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## detty43 (Feb 29, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the info..it really helped out alot and also gave me alot of defferent ways to go about my issue... Now I can't wait untill the Model Train Expo this weekend in Columbus Ohio...hopefully I will get what I'm looking for...and maybe alittle more...again thanks to you all


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## mapper65 (Feb 15, 2009)

Here is a link to some information that I posted about a Bachmann 4-4-0 that I put sound and DCC in a few years back.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,13076.msg105216.html#msg105216 

Here a a link to a quick video that I shot just a few minutes after putting it all back together. At this point in time the chuff was way off and I still needed to adjust many of the sounds. It's been a good runner, I'm very happy with the results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNcKhSOM_BI


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