# Proper cars to pull behind LGB 2085 SEG Mallet



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Most of LGB's engines had cars that came from the same railroad as the engine. I cannot really find anything else in the LGB line up thru the years that is for the Southeast German Railway where that big 0-6-6-0 mallet is from. I lack the very first LGB Telegram that had an article on that line and the Mallet. Espicaly passenger cars. Anybody have that first issue and can scan in the pages from that article? Mike


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

South German Railway Company (Süddeutsche Eisenbahn-Gesellschaft AG[/i]) 

Maybe this? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XH5_-1sWJs 

Andrew


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## Toney (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike,

#104 was in service in the Black Forest on the Zell-Todtnauer Railroad until end of service in 1967. Not very much to find in the net, sorry.

But I can offer one interesting Link:

www.todtnau.net/todtnauerli/

Mallet #104 will be proud to carry this lovely car:

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...71_-01.jpg

Enjoy
Toney


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Toney, I found that same coach when I was looking but wasn't too sure of anything. I will put it below as your hyperlink failed.
Mallet 104 pictured below has coaches with very similar window configuration but the roof looks to be clerestory and perhaps with curved corners.

Andrew 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_...ay_Company 












Arrival of a passenger train with spa guests in Todtnau station. The wagons were pulled by the locomotive No.104. 










Coaches look similar to above but different locos.


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## Toney (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Garrat, 

okay, visiting my archive to verify some details. 
The clerestory is removed during modernisation decades ago. 
The Gotha Manufactory build thousends of this type and I'm pretty sure to identified the Manufactorer. Especially the boogies are unique! 
And in Lower Saxony is a NG-RR-Museum near Bremen. They have one in the inventory, it's #18 of the DEV. The car is in exzellent condition! 
The website is: http://www.museumseisenbahn.de/ 

Have fun! 

Toney


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

The coaches remind me of the Barmer Mt Railway cars that LGB does, just with a more simple paint job and slightly different trucks. But in G scale we have come to make comprimises. Excellent pics, I found them about the same time. Your right that there is very little on the net covering that line during the 60's or even earlier. Probably doesnt help that the mallet is in a swiss museum now and the narrow gauge line long gone. Atleast 104 was preserved, even if its not in Germany. I am debating on whether to get the 2085d or go USA old western look with a 2119d. Trying to remember how well the 2085d did on R1 curves binding wise. I know the moguls will slow down on R1 curves. I had a 2085d at one time, and if I remember right, with the smoke unit shut off(installed a switch), on a 1amp power pack with ease pulling 4 passenger coaches on my old indoor layout. I must say its more entertaining to watch than a mogul. Thanks for the pics and links guys. Mike


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

the mallets will do fine, ie no binding , on R1s, at all 
great locos, and much more interesting 
but, decidedly German 

on the earlier versions, the smoke and motor control is inside the smoke box door as i recall, otherwise has been located on later versions within the cab,


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

The mallet is definatly more interesting to watch hands down. I am not sure why the moguls bind as much as they do on R1, the middle driver has plenty of side to side slop and isnt directly geared to the motor, just the side rods keeping it moving along. I remember my last 2119 I had years ago, if you didnt add a couple drops of lube on the ends of the axles where they come out of the gear box, it would really slow down on R1 curves. I drop of oil at the start of the curve on the outside rail flange area helped as well. The 2085d that i used to have didnt bat an eye going around those curves. Sure wish LGB had done a model of that SEG passenger car shown above, considering that the 2085d was the top of the line back in the day, one would have thought LGB would have done matching rolling stock. But I cant say I have seen anything lettered for the SEG other than the mallet. MIke


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Mike, I was thinking the same about the Barmer Mountain coaches. It is the closest match. The same LGB coach model also comes in blood & custard and dark green DR paint schemes. 
They are nice looking coaches, I have a few. If you were serious you could modify the windows and curve the corners of the roof and change the gates. It wouldn't be too difficult. The LGB coach sides are in 4 sections like the prototype ones in the images above. The Barmer Mountain coaches have flat sides unlike the ones above which have traditional tapered coach bodies. I am thinking of repainting my Barmer Mountain coaches to be more generic. 
The link below is a different 2 axle LGB coach that has been repainted, they come up well.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...dow-coach/

Andrew


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

If the Barmer coach was resprayed to the green in that pic and relettered to match or closely match that pic. I think in the garden it was pass for the real thing without going wild on modifications. I still just find it odd that the Richters didnt produce anything else SEG lettered to go with thier top model? Strange indeed. Must go along with thier old rubber ruler everybody makes fun of. I cant buy anything till my live steamer sells on ebay, so I have time to sit on the fence and waffle between the 2119d mogul or the 2085d mallet. Mike


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Mike, yes I agree and is probably what I will do myself for generic German coaches. The Barmer coach may have come in a plain unlettered green, perhaps that was close enough for the SEG. LGB certainly made a guzzillion different types of short 2 axle personwagens though. I'm sick of the sight of them.









Andrew


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike:

" Most of LGB's engines had cars that came from the same railroad as the engine". 


I have to disagree with your statement in the original post. In the beginning LGB made American style Narrow Gauge freight cars without an American engine. They ultimately came out with an Americanized Stanz with tender. Their first "American" style engine was the Red and Green Mogul lettered for the Denver, South Park, and Pacific. I am not aware of any DS&SP cars that LGB produced at the time they introduced that engine. Their next Mogul was lettered for the C&S. There were some C&S freight cars and a caboose, but no passenger cars. The SEG Mallet is no exception. Unless I am mistaken, they produced passenger cars for the three RR on the Glacier Express, but only engines for the RhB. There is the FO cog engine, but that wasn't used on the "Express". In the beginning they came out with many freight cars lettered for American RRs (Santa Fe, Union Pacific, Etc.). It wasn't until years later that they made diesels for those roads, but the eras and scale (gauge) were different. 

LGB played fast and loose with railroads, scale, and gauge. They made great "toy" trains. They run and run. 

The wheel base on the Mallet motor block is about 4" and on the Mogul it is about 5". Both motor blocks under the Mallet pivot. The shorter wheel base on the mallet is why it handles the R1 curves and the Mogul doesn't.

I have some questions that need answers before I could recommend a mogul over the mallet ( I have both, so I have no ax to grind either way):

1. Are you interested in North American Narrow Gauge or European? 

The Mogul is American and the Mallet is German.

If you are leaning towards American, the LGB Uintah Mallet is an excellent choice. 

2. What radius do you have on your layout?

If you have R1 curves on your track, over the long run you will be replacing Mogul idler gears on a regular basis. While they will traverse the 4' diameter curves they are not happy campers.

Chuck

PS I have been buying and enjoying LGB and other "G" gauge trains since 1980.


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## Sampug394 (Dec 30, 2010)

chuck n said:


> Mike:
> 
> I am not aware of any DS&SP cars that LGB produced at the time they introduced that engine.


Correct. According to GBDB, The 4074 DSP&P Tiffany reefer was produced in 1988, which was the later end of the first-run production of red/green 2018D moguls, from 1983/5 to '88.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I agree Chuck, LGB loved the rubber ruler, but I love them for it. They, like Lionel did back in the 40's and 50's made awsome trains that run outside and run well. LGB is much closer to scale than Lionel was, although the F3 and the EP5 were very close. The Scale Hudson doesnt count, most couldnt afford that one. I ended up getting a Harz 2-6-2t with factory sound for a screaming deal due to a blown MTS board so it didnt run at first. I do plan to get a 2085d eventualy. If someone has an early run 2085d, I would swap them for my Harz 23802. Cheers Mike


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Thought I would update my thread to answer a few questions posed. I like both Euro and American, right now I have a 2018d and I can say it doesnt like R1 curves, it will do them but isnt happy. I have the option to get a 2019s for $400 at the local shop, and I want to stay at that price level, but I am still thinking a 2085d would be better as I cannot get away from R1 curves. My friend has the Unitah mallet and its nice, but I like the more colorful Euro stuff. This past year I have had issues with my eyesite to where its hard to see and enjoy my remaining HO trains. So what was left I took down to the shop in Zionsville to be sold off. With that $$ I will buy something. He doesn't have a 2085d, so I might just have to go the ebay route if I decide on that engine. On my overhead indoor loop the Mogul does "ok" if I keep it running at a normal "road" speed. But if I slow to a restricted "yard" speed she will all but stall in the curves. I do realize the 2018 lacks the floating center driver with extra side play of later models. But it was a beater in pieces that I have slowly rebuilt to the point its almost like it should be again, mostly lacking whistle/pops and a box. However, on my outdoor railway, I have a nice S curve that is all R1 curves, its there I really worry about the Mogul's gears getting abused. Mike


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

The latest version of the Uintah mallet is quite colorful with green tanks, silver smokebox and red trim etc.
Some people put a more American style cab on the European mallet too. A modified one sold on eBay just recently.










Andrew


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I like that Garrett, but I bet it sells for a tad more than I can find a good, clean, used 2085d. I also tend to prefer German production LGB over the newest stuff. Really thinking about combining my love of the Lord of the Rings books and my railway like I have seen others do. I think the Euro mallet really fits what I might want if I built a railway that way. Just have to wait on that shop to sell off my HO stuff first and see how the sound mogul likes my railway first. Already have it set back for me. Mikie


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I recall seeing a used Mallet at Nicolas Smith a couple months ago, offered at $495.

I'll try to keep in mind to look for it at York tomorrow. If it's there, do you have any specific questions about it?


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Basicly I am in the 400 or under price range right now. Thats what I should get out of my HO stuff alone. If I find a 2085d mallet, I would sell/swap off my 2018d mogul and a couple of my USA prototype freight cars for Euro stuff. I prefer the early version of the 2085d with the drivers held on by screws verses the later pressed on drivers. I used to have an early run 2085d and thats what I would like to find again. USA stuff I have besides the 2018d is a LGB pink LG&B box car, USA Ralston Purina green/red reefer and a Bachmann White Pass bobber caboose. Thanks for looking. Mike


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

A couple have recently been sold on eBay for a little less than that.

Andrew


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I saw them Garrett, just didnt have cash in hand at the time. I got the new smokestack for my 2018d installed last night to replace the original one with the broke off base stud. I still dont think R1 curves alone are the death nail for idler gears in moguls. But more like that plus a long or heavy train would amplify the stress on them. Mike


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike

You are correct, R1 curves are not the only cause of idler gear damage. My curves are 10' diameter and I've had to replace the gears. I put some extra weight in mine, so I could pull more cars. I took out the extra weight, I haven't had to replace a gear since.

Chuck


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

those gears are ment to be worn by design IMHO, they are the weak link to protect the motor and the rest of the drive train. When I had my old layout that I ran a 2119d bumblbee mogul on, it ran 6-7 hours straight on most weekends while we enjoyed the day in our back yard, Usualy pulling 4 or 5 cars and a caboose. I have always had mostly LGB rolling stock, LGB power supplies ect. And I have never had to replace a mogul gear in my own engines. I have done them for others, just not the ones I have owned. I personaly dont like the slow down I get in the curves, I like to watch the train maintain speed thru the curve. I know the 2085 will do that, even thru an R1 S curve. I am not sure my 2018 or the 2019 I am looking at will give me the look I am after doing a "middle earth" railway with hobbits, wizards and dragons. Both my depot and the RIGI cable cars also kind of look wierd with American prototype trains. I wish the shop near me had a mallet in stock, but he only has a couple of expensive Sumpter Valley ones that have sound.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

A gear that is designed to wear will only help prevent it's adjoining gears from wearing instead. It won't protect the motor or anything else unless it breaks like a shear pin does.

Andrew


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Yes and no Garrett, the idler being made of plasic protects the motor from burn out by stripping its teeth before the motor suffers terminal damage. Thats not to say there wont be side rod damage or main axle gear damage as well. If someone is overloading a Mogul with long trains or has added extra weight, then yes the idler gears are in danger of damage. Right now, the 2019s is the only engine available to me thru the shop, that might change at any time as collections and estates come in all time. I would rather have the 2085d, would swap the moguls for one if I had the chance. Just have to see what happens. Mikie


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Mike, yeah fair enough. In the context stripping the teeth is more akin to breaking than what we normally consider wear though. Semantics

Andrew


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Yepper, I still hope I can come up with a mallet. Just cant picture moguls, either my 2018d DSP&PRR or the C&S #6 running thru a land of hobbits, wizards and dragons. Now the green mallet with its flashy red running gear fits the bill, or atleast in my mind. Just wish I had the original box to my mogul, would make it worth more. Mikie


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Mike, we have strayed somewhat from the topic...
Here is a mock-up in paint of what I will probably do to my LGB Barmer Mountain coaches so they look the part behind my LGB SEG Mallet or other German locos.
I intend to paint them a duller green than they currently are over the pin stripe detail. It would also be good to get rid of the 'curtains' but that would require redoing all the window sashes. 
After looking at some German narrow gauge coaches I have noticed they sit lower than the LGB model. 
The LGB coach below has Bachmann 24mm wheels on it. The couplers end up being 3mm lower but still just work. Filing the truck's coupler mount to rectify or some tinkering with the coupler itself will do. If I file the mount and want to put the original wheels back on later, adding spacers would put the couplers back to the correct height. 
I like the smaller wheels which give it more of a narrow gauge look.










Todtnau Station with Mallet No.104









Similar coaches as above









DR coaches









Andrew


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Nice pics Andrew, I have struggled to find much info on that line other than what little is in the LGB catalogs. I havent been able to get a copy of the first issue of LGB Telegram, it covered that line and the Mallet. I am leaning that way but it depends on finding one and being able to either sell my one Mogul or trade it toward the Mallet. I think it, along with some green Barmer Mt coaches will look good for what I want to do, and I feel it will better handle my twisting line with R1 curves. Mike


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Mike,

Nicolas Smith didn't have the one I'd seen previously, but Side Track Hobbies South had two, both at $499. They're out of VA, 276-591-5513.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks for checking, once I have cash in hand I will keep them in mind. Mike


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