# my track keeps having dead spots all suggestions melcome



## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

I have been working on my large layout in my back yard in rainy florida for 10 months. 

I am having the worst time of keeping power to my track .I am using aristocraft track. I have leveled it screwed it onto landscape timbers that are set in concrete all level. I have 2 different loops each on its own controller 40 va each.

My problem is I keep losing power on the track from one piece of track to the next I fix one connection another one goes down I have been using LGB conductive grease it helps but its not a cure. I have scrubbed the track it helped but problem came back the next day. I have replaced all the aristocraft screws  and coated them with lgb grease.

All the track is flat and screwed down onto a 1 inch thick 4 inch wide preasure treated boards that sit on top of a landscape timber that is concreted into the ground. I have also put jumper plastic coated wire between track  pieces using the screws on bottom of the aristocraft track. I still seem to be getting dead spots.I finally started putting in line drops every 10 feet. So any suggestions are welcome except changing to battery engines. I have a battery bachmann 10 wheeler to run a aristocraft track cleaner it bearly pulls it . I have  5 DIFFERENT 10 wheel bachmann engines and 4 lionel engines 
one is a dual motor unit. I also have 2 20 ton USA engines all have the same problem, I also clean all engine wheels 
after use. one loop is 120 feet the other one is 85 feet. I have the track covered with canopys to keep off rain,  

I HAVE BEEN USING THIS SITE AS I WENT ALONG BUILDING IT AND THANK EVERONE FOR THEIR INPUTS ON PROBLEMS  THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I COULD NOT FIND A SOLUTION IN THIS FORUM THAT I HAVE NOT ALREADY TRIED JOHN


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## leonpete (Jan 4, 2008)

Lost and Confused, 
I used Hillmans rail clamps and a little conductive grease instead of the Aristo jointers and have not had any problems with conductivity. I run a track cleaning caboose around a few times before running trains and that usually works to clean the track. It has a scratch pad under it. I also have another small loop about 35' long using Aristo jointers and one track connection and so far no problems.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Over 16 years ago, when I took my trains out of doors and started laying track, we tried track power. 
We ate the LGB joiners in half at the sharp bend with current, moisture, and acidic soils. 
I gave up. 
I have not had a dead spot since, and basically the only clamps are for lift-out bridges. 

Like Leon said, put in rail calmps. 
I looked into that 16 years ago, and to me, the addtional cost was prohibitive, so I yanked the brass (it's in the shop area), and laid aluminum with stainless joiners. 

TOC


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Best (and cheapest) way is to solder jumper wires between the sections.  We've not had a single continuity problem in 11 years and the track gets watered 2-3 times a day.


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

DID YOU USE ANY SPECIAL SOLDER OR JUST ROSEN CORE? AND THANKS FOR THE SOLUTION


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

John,
Rail clamps do work and I use them at switches, bridges, etc or any place I may need to remove a piece of track but I think soldering jumpers across the rail joints and because the wiring in switches is poor at best, solder jumpers *across all switches* it's easy and it works...







 











Check out how the how-to at http://4largescale.com/trains/P20.htm


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

THANK YOU FOR SUGGESTION I WILL BE BUYING RAIL CLAMPS VERY SOON DO THEY REQUIRE ANY SPECIAL MAINTANCE ?


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I pack my joiners with conductive grease(auto store) and make sure the ends of the track are buffed off with my Dremel wire brush tool. Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I suggest running the screw all the way in and out of the joiner to eliminate burrs, then when you tighten them down, the torque you feel will relate to them being tight enough. 

I use an anti-corrosive spray, but I use SJ all stainless clamps. If I were using brass, I would use a grease with graphite, or preferably, moly in it. 

Regards, Greg


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

If Ur using brass track, solder it, my LS layout soldered together in 91 with "0" failures, 
same with my HO layouts,been soldering them together for over 50 years with no 
failures either...
Paul R...


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I use rail clamps and solder joints. 

Sometimes the soldered joints fail due to weather extremes, but it is usually only once a year. If it is a loop oftrack and engines stall, there are 2 breaks in the track. 

I find thatv 2 axle engines need more power pickups and I either tie 2 engines together electrically, or add a car with power pick up, or a tender with power pickup. 

The bachman 10 wheelers are light and do not pickup power well. 20 tonner i have runs very welll due to its sliders and weight, and it runs without additional pickup on my RR.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I use the Aristo SS track  and the screw clamps and a little conductive grease.  Been running for 5 years so far.  Later RJD


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I used a conductive grease from a electronics store. I did like Jerry and packed the joiners with grease both sides of the Aristo and one side of the LGB. I ran this way for 18 years before I had problems. The track was screwed to 2x6 boards. Then I changed over to battery power that was the best thing. No more track cleaning!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Did you  use the little track joiner screws aristocraft supplies? I find that when I use those I rarely have conductivity problems


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

L&C,

Sorry to have to tell you this, but with brass track and that nice moist Florida air, you will have to clean Brass track several times a day.  You could have all the best soldered connections, but in the end, the surface where the wheel meets the rail will be oxidized and non-conductive. 

Other suggestions inlcude:
1. Run power from your power supply to several points on your railroad.  Run separate lines.   
2. Buy the LGB track cleaning locomotive. Run that around your railroad before each running session, and maybe during the running session if trains start acting up.  The aristo track cleaner is not going to cut it for really getting the oxidized surface clean. 
3. Are you using plastic wheels? If so, this could be compounding your problems.  
4. Screw all the tracks together using the Aristo track screws.  Clamps are very expensive, and those provide a positve mechanical connection.  The screws are embedded in the wax at the bottom of the track.  Or you can buy bags of them from aristo.  Put a little conductive paste on the end of that little hex driver that came with the track to keep the screw from falling off. 

Good luck!

Mark


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Pleased to meet you, Lost!

You may find more advice here than you really needed/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif

Oh, forget it. I'm too ADD today to make a good reply today. This is the 3rd time I've started this posting/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif I even had to go back and edit this one.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Torby,

What's your excuse for the other 365 days this year!! Kidding!

Mark


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

My solution was battery power.


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## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

How have you been cleaning the top of the track? Are you just using the Aristo Track Cleaner or are you first removing the oxidation with something else? I find that initial cleaning with a burgandy colored ScotchBrite Pad works well and then we polish the top with an LGB Track Cleaning "Eraser". This shines the top up and slows down the oxidation of the surface. If you have ever cleaned the track with sandpaper, this will often cause the track to oxidize faster. Also, are you running plastic wheels on your rolling stock? I've seen this leave residue on the track that inhibits conductivity.. 
Russ


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## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

L&C, there's one other thing that you could try. It's a TV tuner cleaner sold by Radio Shack. Comes in an aerosol can. Twice in the 14 years that my railroad has been outside (it's LGB sectional track), I've had a section go dead. Each time, I just shot some of the TV tuner cleaner (it's plastics compatible BTW) into the gap between the rails, so it got into the joiners. Waited about 15 minutes, and then ran trains without a problem. And the dead spots did not recur!! Obviously, your problems are far more severe. Even though this stuff is not cheap, it might be worth a try. Best of luck to you!! 
SandyR


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By LOST AND CONFUSED on 03/06/2008 9:05 PM
DID YOU USE ANY SPECIAL SOLDER OR JUST ROSEN CORE? AND THANKS FOR THE SOLUTION



I use 63/37 rosin core solder but 60/40 works OK too.  (63/37 melts at a slightly lower temperature.)   You also need solder paste (flux). 

I also use a 320 watt Weller gun, but a 150+ watt "pencil" also works.  The wire is 16 or 18 gauge uninsulated "bond" wire (used for grounding antennas, etc.)  You need to clean the spots on the track to be soldered really well so that it shines. You can use a moto-tool with a wire wheel, or simply scratch at it with a small screwdriver. 

I refuse to pay more for rail clamps than I do for the track /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif  and this method is actually more reliable (though a little more initial work) than rail clamps.

Also, jumper wires are more prototypical than rail clamps.


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## markperr (Jan 7, 2008)

Where your loco stops on the tracks will help you trouble shoot your problem.  If it's stopping on the joints or within close proximity of them, then they are most likely your problem.  If the loco is stopping in the middle of a section of track, or close proximity thereto then your problem is with the track.  By using two sections of wire roughly 2' long each with alligator clips on the end, you can determine which rail is your problem (whether it be the left, right, or both) by simply clipping one wire to the track both front and back of the loco to see if it takes off.  Do this one track at a time and fix each problem as you find it.  It shouldn't take too long unless you have tons of connectivity problems.  I would do this before spending a bunch of money on railclamps.  

Mark


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I am going to be building my layout this spring.  As of now I plan on using the screws provided with the Aristo Track.  Eventually I plan on sodering Jumpers.  (Rail clamps are way to expensive as well as Battery power) What is the best wire to use for this and what type of Soder should I use?  People mentioned you need a flux.  Does the flux go were you plan to soder the jumper wire to the rail?  The purpose of the flux is to help the soder stick to the rail and wire?  This is new to me.


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

You are a genius I  thank you and all your offspring I will be back from the radio shack by the time you read this BOY DO I FEEL STUPID I  WAS GOING TO WIRE UP A WHEAT LIGHT THIS IS MUCH EASIER


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

I  USE STAINLESS STEEL JOINERS AND I AM USING ALUM.  TRACK FROM ARISTO CRAFT TO BEAT THE SALT AIR I AM USING BRASS TRACK ON ALL MY CURVES. I HAVE REMOVED ALL THE WAX FROM THE TRACK SCREWS BEFORE INSTALLING I HAVE NOW BEEN REPLACING THEM WITH THE 50 SCREW PACK ARISTOCRAFT SCREWS IT BRINGS BACK CONDUCTIVITY UNTIL THE NEXT RAIN. I WILL KEEP FIGHTING IT BECAUSE MY NEPHEWS KIDS HAVE A BALL OUT THERE BUT IF IT WONT RUN 9 YEAR OLDS DO CARE ABOUT PROBLEMS  THEY ARE VERY TOUGH TO KEEP HAPPY THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPLY


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

I CAN REPAY YOUR SUGGESTION I HAVE HAD MY TRACK OUT FOR 10 MONTHS . WHERE EVER YOUR SETTING UP YOUR TRACK KEEP IT FAR AWAY FROM TREES THE WIND BLOWS LEAVES ONTO THE TRACK 
ADD A LITTLE MOISTURE AND YOU HAVE A NICE SHORT THEY GET UNDER THE TRACK ALSO . IF YOU HAVE NOT STARTED YET THROW OUT THE SCREWS THAT COME WITH THE TRACK AND BUY THE 50 PACK ARISTO CRAFT SCREWS FROM WHOLESALE TRAINS 2.93 PER BAG. THEY ARE THE CHEAPEST .THEY HAVE LONGER HEADS AND WILL STAY ON THE TRACK TOOL AND THEY DONT RUST. THE ONES WITH THE TRACK DONT STAY ON THE TOOL AFTER YOU START USING IT.


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

I USE JUMPERS BETWEEN THE RAILS 22 GAUGE WIRE INSULATED BUT ITS TWO HARD TO HOOK UP A CONTINOUS WIRE THREWOUT THE LAYOUT. IT ONLY GOES DEAD WHERE NO JUMPER WIRE IS NOT INSTALLED


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## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

With different metals in contact with one another, and an electrical current passing through them, you might be having a chemical reaction going on that is resulting in the loss of conductivity. Can't think of the name of that at the moment! Can somebody help me out here? Can somebody help YOU out here? 
SandyR


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By snowshoe on 03/07/2008 3:47 PM
 Eventually I plan on sodering Jumpers.  (Rail clamps are way to expensive as well as Battery power) What is the best wire to use for this and what type of Soder should I use?  People mentioned you need a flux.  Does the flux go were you plan to soder the jumper wire to the rail?  The purpose of the flux is to help the soder stick to the rail and wire?  This is new to me. 



Bad plan.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif

The better plan is to solder the jumpers on when the track is first put out.  First, the track is new and clean and requires far less cleaning at the point of connection to get a good solder joint.  Also, it is* far easier on you back* to do several sections of track on a work bench/table, then carry these sections out and lay them in place.  You will also loose far fewer screws this way.

16 or 18 gauge "bond" or "ground" wire is easiest as it has no insulation.  You can use 60/40 rosin core solder, but if you can find 63/37, it melts at a little lower temperature so is a little easier to use.

The flux goes on the spots where the solder is to be applied, but pre-cut the piece of wire and put it on the ends too.  You need to clean this area until it shines.  You can use a moto-tool, or just scratch at it with a small screwdriver.  Yes, the flux helps the solder "flow" and gives better adhesion, but you still need a *BIG* iron.  I have use a 325 watt gun, but a 150+ watt "pencil" can do it.

For the gent who was commenting on loosing the screws, a little paste flux on the end of the Philips driver (old style) or Allen key (later style) will help the screw stay in place on teh driver whle you maneuver it into position.  Some people put paper down to catch the screw.  I just keep a needle nose pliers handy because once the screw is in the ballast, I can't pick it up with my fingers.  The more I try, the deeper it digs itself in. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif 

One last thing..., you can only solder brass or nickel-silver track.  You can't solder aluminum or stainless track using conventional methods.  A friend with aluminum track drills and taps each piece for a brass screw that he solders a jumper on.  No reason that couldn't be done with AristoCraft stainless using the existing holes.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristocraft makes a rail clamp that has a screw in it for jumpers, and its much cheaper. It's less robust than the hillman or split jaw models, but it has some advantages. You tighten it from above, for example, with a phillips bit. .And it has a third small screw on top specifically for attaching jumper wires. 

I got a bag of 100 clamps for 60-some dollars, which is a lot cheaper than Split Jaw. bt I should add I haven't used them much yet--I just put the first ones down the other day


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I've read that aluminum track is the worst way to go for track power, you just can't keep it clean, oxidizes too fast. So, it may be best to just go battery power. Jerry


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## hap (Jan 3, 2008)

train world has slit jaw clamps 50 in a package for $67.99. I ordered 2 packs yesterday. Their web site says $70.99 but that is wrong. item # 40059 website http://www.trainworld.com/split%20jaw.htm I also inoticed that you mentioned your powerpacks are 40 VA. That is a little too small for the amount of track u have


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

You can't solder aluminum track. The reaction between differing metals is called "Galvanic Reaction." I use rail clamps and don't have problems with track power unless they are pulled apart due to contraction in the winter.


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## hap (Jan 3, 2008)

my responses kept freezing up so i hit refresh 4 times and finaaly had to leace mls and log back in. It never showed that these replies went thru can a moderator delete 3 of them for me. thank you and am sorry this happened ps chat fdroze for every one in there at the same time


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2008)

12 years with soldered brass track and few problems.

See these links

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/track_soldering_tips.html
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/track_cleaning_tips.html
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/track_tips.html

- gws


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By gwschreyer on 03/07/2008 9:56 PM
12 years with soldered brass track and few problems.

See these links

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/track_soldering_tips.html
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/track_cleaning_tips.html
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/track_tips.html

- gws


HE'S BACK!!!  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif 


All bow down!  Whether you know it or not, you're in the presence of an immortal!   /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

thanks for the tip


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

YES I AGREE BATTERY IS THE WAY TO GO . I USE A BACHMANN BATTERY OPERATED 10 WHEELER TO PULL MY TRACK CLEANING CAR . 
SO YOU WANT TO BUY ALL MY ELECTRIC TRAINS ?

WELL IF NOT I GUESS I AM STUCK WITH WHAT I HAVE .

I LIKE THE FACT IT HAS PROBLEMS AND ENJOY SOLVING THEM. 
LAST WEEK I HAD BOTH LAYOUTS RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME 
EACH HAD A BACHMANN 10 WHEELER PULLING 7 PASSENGER CARS 
I GOT A REAL  WARM FEELING OF ACCOMPLISHMENT 
 MY WIFE AND I BOTH NOW WORK OUT THERE 
AFTER 25 YEARS WE HAVE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT BESIDES BILLS  
SO YOU CAN KEEP YOUR EASY BATTERY WAY 
THIS IS A LOT MORE FUN 

AND I GET TO MEET NICE PEOPLE  ON A WEB SITE


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By LOST AND CONFUSED on 03/08/2008 3:51 AM
YES I AGREE BATTERY IS THE WAY TO GO . I USE A BACHMANN BATTERY OPERATED 10 WHEELER TO PULL MY TRACK CLEANING CAR . 
SO YOU WANT TO BUY ALL MY ELECTRIC TRAINS ?

WELL IF NOT I GUESS I AM STUCK WITH WHAT I HAVE .

I LIKE THE FACT IT HAS PROBLEMS AND ENJOY SOLVING THEM. 
LAST WEEK I HAD BOTH LAYOUTS RUNNING AT THE SAME TIME 
EACH HAD A BACHMANN 10 WHEELER PULLING 7 PASSENGER CARS 
I GOT A REAL  WARM FEELING OF ACCOMPLISHMENT 
 MY WIFE AND I BOTH NOW WORK OUT THERE 
AFTER 25 YEARS WE HAVE SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT BESIDES BILLS  
SO YOU CAN KEEP YOUR EASY BATTERY WAY 
THIS IS A LOT MORE FUN 

AND I GET TO MEET NICE PEOPLE  ON A WEB SITE 




Lost & Confused..., just a note,

Unless you have some disability, please do not use the caps lock on your posts.  The use of capital letters is akin to "yelling" and many people find it offensive.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dear Lost: 

Come up on chat some evening, it's a good time, and a lot of the experts like George are there too, many years of experience that can save you time and $$. 

Regards, Greg


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2008)

Posted By pdk on 03/07/2008 7:56 AM
My solution was battery power.

Works for me!


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

DEAR Chief Propaganda Officer
Battery Mafia SE Division where were you a year ago when I started this project? 

I really like my bacvhmann battery engine but it really cant do what the electric one does as far as running cars

with fresh batterys it will pull three cars .
I know at least it runs. 

My wife was not impressed  the day I said  dear you know your old flower garden you said I could do something with?

she said   oh what now ?

Would you mind if I put in a garden rail road?

Well after she saw I was serious she said sure as soon as you win the nobel piece prize 

So slowly I purchased used bachmann sets on ebay and found cheap track from aristo-craft 

I went out and put up a small layout when she was gone for a weekend. 
She came back and liked it because I landscaped it .

I assumed she liked the train but she really liked the landscaping 

so with patience I have been slowly adding track and trains and she has helped landscape it 

so when it runs she likes it when it doesnt its my problem 
I am doing a third layout that is totally elevated outside so I will have more conductivity problems as my  hand built bridge spans shift from heavy rain

So if you can suggest a company that sells battery engines at a reasonable price 
please let me know  LOST AND CONFUSED  or married 25 years and waiting for death HA HA


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2008)

I do not believe anybody really sells anything ready to run straight out of the box for battery power...even the Aritso engines, batteries have to installed-somewhere. My Bachmann "Annie" 10 Wheeler runs for about 4+ hours on my heavy grades-pulling 4+ cars 14.4v DC...Nicads in Tender...... 

What type of battery do you currently use? If you are intersted in Battery Power...try a post below in the Battery/RC forums....some members here don't like discussing things outside of the specified topic area-whatever.... 

and to answer your first question...I've been here for a while, sorry I've missed you thus far! 

btw: now that I have re-read your post, Am I correct in assuming that your "Battery BAchmann" engine is one of those old first gen Big Haulers? Those will not perform like a newer engine will-not even close! 

AL track is perfect for battery power! 

cale


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Mine runs all day on 12 Duracell AA batteries


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