# problems with Stainz



## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

Recently, my son received (was bequeathed) an LGB starter set (analog decoder) with the original Stainz locomotive. I'm completely new to the G-gauge (my experience is mostly with the HO scale and the European TT gauge), but, somehow, I made the whole set up working. Except for the smoke. At first, I thought the smoke generator was toast, so I tried to replace it. Failure #1 - the unit would not come out from the stack enough to cut cables. It did slid out about an inch and that's it. However, while messing with it, I realized that the unit does get hot, so I bought some liquid smoke. Failure #2 - the first liquid smoke (Case?) produced the faintest of smoke, so I bought the the LGB smoke, which didn't work at all. So I read about the smoke units and experimented with various amounts of smoke. It made no difference at all. However, I noticed that the lights on the engine were very yellow and dim. The transformer (power unit) is LGB that can be used with 220V and 110V power supply. And here is the semi-failure #3 - the sound turns on only after about 10 seconds of train moving. In fact, it sometimes takes running the train in reverse before the sound comes onSo here are my questions:

1. Why is the smoke unit not coming out completely out of the stack? Do I have to take the engine apart to do it?
2. Is it possible that using the original transformer with 110V power supply simply does not produce enough amps to vaporize liquid smoke?
3. Is it possible that the motor is going bad and draws so much power that the smoker is not getting hot enough?
4. Is the sound working as it should? 

Thanks for any suggestions.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I have two Stainz locomotives about a year old; to get the smoke to work, the voltage needs to be near the top of the range. This is one of the benefits to digital control (or battery power), you apply full voltage all the time to smoke and lights. 

Do you have access to a volt / amp meter? If so, can you report the voltage output of the transformer with no load, again with the train running at full throttle, and again at the speed you like to run? 

It is unlikely you have a fault causing too much current draw, since that would trip the safety. (Not sure if this is true of yours, since some safety legislation in electric toys is recent.)


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

is your powerpack red or grey? 
as far as i know, LGB did not make packs for both 110 and 230V. 
the grey ones are for 110 V.


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

[No message]


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

I'll try. However, for train to move at something like a "normal" (scale) speed, I have to run it at full throttle


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

Actually, I have a Marklin mini-club transformer No 6727A 10Va (blue). Total output pr.120V 60Hz; 0-L 12V, max 0.5 A AC and 0-B4 - 10V max 0.4 A DC.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

10 volts is a minimal voltage for a "G" gauge locomotive. Many will barely move at 10 v. Most single motor engines require between 0.6 and 1 amp. When figuring power requirements I figure on 1 amp per motor. Smoke and lights will require additional amps. Your 0.4 amps power supply will kick out very quickly. Large scale power supplies top out between 20 and 22 v. My power supplies are rated for 10 and 15 amps. Chuck


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

That's what i thought. I measured the output and under load and running at full throttle I'm getting about 8.5-9 amps. So, it's time for a new power pack, methinks...


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Where do you live? Perhaps you can take your train to someone who has a proper power supply, and can help diagnose the issue(s)? 

You should be able to get a proper LGB starter set transformer + throttle on ebay or such, since many people have to replace them with something more powerful. 

Or invest in a bigger unit or DCC system now, before adding components which will later be obsolete (something to think about.)


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

half an amper is not enough. for the motor you need one ampere, plus some for lights and smoke. 
edit: do you have any other DC source, that gives between 12 and 24 V DC?
if yes, try that, to see if your things funktion then.


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

I live in Delaware, and there is a store on my way to work I can stop by to check things out. Thanks, everybody!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't know where you are in Delaware, but there is an excellent train store in Broomall, Pa. Nicholas Smith is well worth a visit. They have a large inventory. Another excellent shop is Star hobbies. They are located on Whitehall, Md. They are located just west of the Bay Bridge. Also a very large inventory and competitive prices. Chuck


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

Nicholas Smith is where I usually go. It's on my way to and from work (well, almost...).


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

I always thought that Maerklin trains ran on AC. LGB and most other large scale equipment runs on DC. You really do need to find a friend, a club, or a store who knows for sure, and can supply, at least for a test, DC power of at least 12 VDC. Let us know how this works out. And happy new year!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dick, he says his power supply has both. Chuck


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Marklin HO (three rail) is AC. I think Z scale (Mini Club) is DC, and I believe Gauge 1 is capable of running on AC or DC - though it is a two-rail system and thus still suffers from the polarity problem of a reversing loop.


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

Happy New Year. I believe it might be Maerklin transformer manufactured since they acquired LGB. This would explain why they included it with the LGB starter set.


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

I am currently bidding on the LGB 5003/110 G-Scale Model Train Transformer. It seems to provide up to 7 amps. I assume that would be sufficient.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The 5003/110 is a 7va power pack and is less than 1/2 amp. And there is no filter cap in this pack!! 

VA is voltage times amps so 14 volts times 1/2 amp gives 7VA. 

Do not waste your $$$$ on this unit.


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

oh great. I guess I'll be listing it...


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

OK, are there any transformers that would have enough power for a simple lay out (one switch, a simple oval) and one engine, and which would cost (used) around $80? I'm getting a bit frustrated. It seems I'd have to spend around $200 for a decent one...


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

What about PIKO TRANSFORMER #35004A IMPUT 120V AC / 60Hz. OUTPUT 20V AC / 28VA. CONTROLLER 35003B IMPUT 20V AC. OUTPUT 0-20 V DC + 1A?


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## Piotr (Dec 19, 2013)

oops, double post


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The 1 amp 20 volts DC should work for a small engine with 1 motor. Think about your future plans. Are you thinking about a larger (outdoors) layout with larger engines and longer trains? If you are thinking about expanding in the future this one won't work and you will have to upgrade. These lower power supplies are handy if you expand, as somethIng on your test bench. Chuck


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

A suitable power supply for large scale will appear large and heavy by the standards of smaller trains, such as HO. They will also cost more. There is simply more current, and that calls for larger components and more heat to dissipate. 

My LGB starter set transformers (the part which plugs into the wall) and throttles (the part which controls the train) do not say Marklin anywhere on them. Especially since you mentioned Mini Club - which is Marklin's Z scale - it seems your son did not receive an appropriate large scale power supply.


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