# Steam escaping from cylinder front



## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

I took my newly completed Ruby kit to the track yesterday to run (it had been broken in on air, and tested once on blocks) to see how she would perform. She ran well over the course of five separate runs, but I observed a lot of steam coming out of the front of the cylinders while running. Not during the initial "priming/cylinder hydro-lock" phase, but during actual running. Since the smokebox door didn't want to stay closed at first I thought it was coming from there, but it was plain to see the oil bubbling out of the front of the cylinders. I tightened the four screws on the top of each cylinder block but it didn't seem to make a difference.

Any suggestions? Is this normal? I don't recall it occurring on my friends' Ruby engines.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Sounds to me you got gaskets leaking.


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## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

Hum... if it were gaskets I think I could get to them pretty easily without having to tear down the entire front of the engine. What can I use as gasket material? Brown bag paper? Kraft paper? Dollar bill paper? 

Also, this link also discusses Ruby gasket leaks, but doesn't suggest a replacement material: http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes- paperbag (could oil soak), dollar bill (our choice).


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

When I was building my 1.5" ten-wheeler and starting to install gaskets, I was given some advice about my first steam-up. No matter how tight you THINK your gaskets are, the FIRST time on steam will make you very humble indeed. My locomotive looked like someone had fired at it with a 12 gauge shotgun! Steam leaks everywhere. It's just part of a great hobby.









BTW, I used "oil soaked" heavy paper for my cylinder gaskets. Worked great.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

I like using dollars bills.. 1's work just fine cheaper that gasket material...


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Just loosen the cylinder bolts and squirt some steam oil into the old gasket let it sit overnight and re tighten the bolts,should take care of the leak!


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## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

Posted By lotsasteam on 19 May 2013 03:45 PM 
Just loosen the cylinder bolts and squirt some steam oil into the old gasket let it sit overnight and re tighten the bolts,should take care of the leak! Do you mean the 4 bolts that are on the top of the cylinders? I hope that works. I will try it no matter what, as the alternate solution of a full replacement isn't practical right now. I sat down to remove the 8 bolts and then lift off the tops of the cylinders (the "steam chests") and realized that this wouldn't work. To get them off I would need to take off the boiler, break down the smokebox saddle supports, and do a bit more work. In disgust I put the 8 bolts back in and called it "good enough" for now. We have a steam up in early June and I wanted it ready by then, and was afraid I might not get it back together by then. After the June steam-up I will revisit the issue.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Cylinder head bolts!! Not steam chest bolts!!!


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Scoobster, Leaks on Ruby cylinders are very common. 

I think there may be some confusion so far as to were exactly your leak is. Does it come from the seam between the valve chest and cylinder at the front? or Does it come from beneath the round cover on the front of the cylinder? 

If it the first then yes you need to take out the same 4 screws again. You can gently pry the chest up enough to slide in a small screwdriver and push out the old gasket. You can use this as a template for the new gasket. Be careful since* there is a front and rear to the gasket ! *Soak the new gasket in oil for a few hours or over night, then slide it back in and screw down the valve chests. This can be done with out boiler removal as long as you employ some finesse. Remember you will only get them to separate 1/32 or 1/16 or so just enough to slide the old out and the new in. Also take care not to scratch the surfaces the gasket seals to with your screwdriver since you want them to seal. I have done this on mine since it was also a bit leaky.

If its the front round cylinder cover that is pretty straight forward. I'm not even sure there is a gasket there I have not had that portion apart.

Best of luck! let us know how you do.


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## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

I realize now that I have been using the wrong terminology. My Ruby is not broken in yet and the valves are not set up well. Currently, the engine only runs in forward, and probably not very efficiently at that. I have it set up for Inside Admission. After the upcoming steam up at my local club I will deal with proper valve settings. For now, forward alone is fine.

As a background, the engine has a WeeBee safety set for 50psi, and the "larger" cylinders as stock from Accucraft in the kit. The original paper gaskets between the cylinders and the steam chest were soaked in 3-in-1 oil prior to their installation. I don't know if the higher psi from the new safety has led to the gaskets being destroyed prematurely, or if something else is the matter. No paper is sticking out of the joint, however.

When running, we noticed a fair bit of steam coming from the front of the engine. At first we thought it was from the smokebox door not staying closed, but closer examination showed that it was coming from the cylinders. I cannot be sure if it is from the front cylinder head, OR the game between the cylinders and steam chest. For sure, though, is that the front of the engine was covered in steam oil after running. 

I can run it tonight to see if I can track down which of the two options it is, but I have not yet tampered with the cylinder heads in any way. I don't mind removing them but would rather wait until the steamchest gasket option is pursued. I tried to separate them from the tops of the cylinders yesterday with no success. Perhaps slipping in a razor blade might help, but I didn't want to knick the surface.

I don't mind the steam leaks except that it is really slobbering up the front of the engine in oil. The waste of steam isn't an issue now as I know it isn't set up properly, but once I get it timed right I don't want to then lose steam out the front. 

Did I explain my problem any better?


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I bought a cheap stethescope from Harbor Freight and replaced the part with the two tubes attached with a home made "Y". The Y is a long thin tube and two short tubes which fit inside the flexible tubing, all three soldered into a junction piece. It looks like this. It will detect leaks that you don't even know are there!









And here is the junction. Holes are drilled so that they all intersect inside the round brass piece and then the tubes are soldered in place.








This works very well for locating leaks even on low pressure air. Be careful around big leaks as they can be VERY loud! I just used it a couple of days ago to locate a leak on the backhead of my C16 and was able to determine the exact place in a connection that was leaking


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Scoobster, on Rubys I have seen a certain amount of leakage occurs when new. Also, if the timing is off a mile, that can make the situation much worse. A friend has been running a Ruby at 60 PSI with no issues. I would have some one look at it at your steam up or at least make a video and post it on YouTube with a link here so that we "experts" (Dah ha ha) can continue to think on this. 

Dave


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Firstly, in my 50 years in G1 live steam I have found nothing better than thick brown paper grocery or liquor store bags for gasket material. It is nice and absorbent and soaks up steam oil for a great seal. $1 bills are just novelty and conversation pieces. As regards finding steam leaks when an engine is cold, forget stethescopes and such, just put your engine on air, go round with a small artist's brush and a solution of diluted washing up liquid and tighten where it's blowing bubbles. For stubborn spots nothing beats a smear of silicone bathtub sealer and every steamer should also have a small roll of plumber's teflon tape for threaded fittings. It's all very easy and pure common sense. 
David M-K 
Ottawa


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Come on you guys! Every Aster snob knows that Ben makes better gaskets than George. Stop using those cheap gasket materials!


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

3-in-1 oil is probably not the best for saturating a cylinder gasket. 
Tom


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## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

I don't believe my instructions said which type of oil to use for saturating the gasket. Had I known that steam oil was the wrong choice I wouldn't have used it.


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## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

I don't believe my instructions said which type of oil to use for saturating the gasket. Had I known that steam oil was the wrong choice I wouldn't have used it. I used 3 in 1 for the gasket and lubrication while testing on air, and steam oil in the steam line while testing on steam.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By scoobster28 on 21 May 2013 01:21 PM 
I don't believe my instructions said which type of oil to use for saturating the gasket. Had I known that steam oil was the wrong choice I wouldn't have used it. I DID use steam oil on my gaskets! ANY contact with steam, use steam oil. Worked for me in a much larger cylinder....3 inch bore!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The 3-in-1 didn't hurt anything, it is just not thick enough to do a good job of sealing. It will eventually get displaced by the steam cylinder oil being introduced with the steam and unless there is some other problem, the leaks will cease.

The other problems might be simply that the bolts need tightened or it might be something like deep (relatively) scratches or gouges in the mating surfaces that are not being filled by the gasket material.

A double thickness of gasket might help (wouldn't hurt) or if the scratches are REALLY deep you may need to polish them out before you can get a good seal.

My bet is that the problem is just not enough gasket thickness because the 3-in-1 is too thin to fatten the material up to fill the imperfections in the mating surfaces.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have been helping on the restoration of a full scale (24"=2'-0" scale) locomotive. we actually will not use a gasket at all on the rear cylinder cover but have lapped the mating surfaces to get a smooth finish and a tight hermetic seal. the lapping operation uses a fine abrasive in a grease carrier and the mating parts are rubbed (rotated back and forth) together with the lapping compound between them. lots of work on even a really small full size engine but not so hard on a model. I would consider using polishing compound of extra fine consistency. 

On my Graham engine kit, 600? grit wet-dry paper was supplied to "lap" the mating surfaces. if the surfaces are dead flat that works...set the sand paper on a dead flat surface ( cast iron table saw table, pane of glass or even a counter top will do.) I do not recall if the Ruby cylinder cover is flat or if it is stepped to fit into the cylinder bore you cannot lap the stepped surface except as we did with the full size engine if it is flat you can use the fine sandpaper on a flat surface trick! Properly done no gasket is required, the gasket will help though and work better on a properly prepared surface.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ben, 

On the Ruby valve chest, part of the problem with seating is also when you install the new valve chest assembly onto the cylinders. You have to bend the cylinder valves sometimes to get them to lay perfectly flat on the cylinder deck. Never rely on the little screws to pull it down. Only issue is you do need to pop the boiler to check this. Being that your engine runs on one direction means that the gaskets are on correctly. Using the light oil when air testing is no issue, Steam oil will not do anything for you when using air anyway. 

Jay


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## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I am glad to hear that my experience of leaking steam is normal, though in a way I wish it wasn't so. Regardless, my wife and I love our engine... and have only confirmed even more that someday we want a Roundhouse!


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GaugeOneLines on 20 May 2013 06:49 PM 
Firstly, in my 50 years in G1 live steam I have found nothing better than thick brown paper grocery or liquor store bags for gasket material. It is nice and absorbent and soaks up steam oil for a great seal. $1 bills are just novelty and conversation pieces. As regards finding steam leaks when an engine is cold, forget stethescopes and such, just put your engine on air, go round with a small artist's brush and a solution of diluted washing up liquid and tighten where it's blowing bubbles. For stubborn spots nothing beats a smear of silicone bathtub sealer and every steamer should also have a small roll of plumber's teflon tape for threaded fittings. It's all very easy and pure common sense. 
David M-K 
Ottawa David,
I switched from bubbles to a stethoscope and never looked back. Less messy and useable in the field. The price is also very moderate: $3.99 at Harbor Freight.

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalo...tethoscope 


And I hope scoobster28's Ruby did not suffer from a leak like the one in Manfred's thread :

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx 

Regards


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Even my kit built Roundhouse started to weep a bit from the engineer's side front cylinder head, just had to snug up the screws a bit after the first couple runs. All part of the fun of running live steam. Mike


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