# New Indoor Layout - New Reckless Experimentation



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

New Indoor Layout - New Reckless Experimentation


I have been reluctant to post this, mostly as I’m still just experimenting with this more than anything, but I have been working on a small switching layout, using a portion of the old benchwork left over from the old layout: It’s based on an N gauge micro I came across a few years ago:





I have been feeling alot of regret after dismantling the large fixed layout, but I still know it was the right thing to do, it was just too large and ate up too much of the garage, but I found less satisfaction with just the pizza than I was hoping for, I was looking thru some old files and found this layout I had done for a friend who was retiring and looking for a small bedroom layout. He didn’t use it as he found room outside for a small layout, but I became intrigued if it would fit in the garage, laid it out and it fit very very nicely into the back corner. I extended it a little but it worked out well. I already had all the lumber, plywood and hardware laying around so a little bit of carpentry and the benchwork was built in a couple evenings. The track also was what I already had in storage, so far aside from some electrical wiring stuff and some connectors I haven’t spent a dime on this. I still to make a hinge assembly and rail connectors with the lift-up bridge. 


This will be a much more urban themed layout this time, going to keep it simple this time maybe even go as more akin to Dave Barrow’s Domino approach where the scenery is Spartan almost to the point of being barren, while the track and operations aspect takes precedent over scenery aspects. I want to have something fun to run trains on but want to avoid creating something so involved that if I have to remove it again it gets very destructive to do so I might experiment with just painted scenery and façade only buildings, we’ll see. Trackwork is complete, electrical testing is underway, so far so goode, I will shoot the track with a coat of flat black spray paint. Need to think about an Ops system. Keep it simple to start. There are buildings to build, and scenery to paint, I also have to take 2 small 0-27 layouts and mash them into 1 small but don’t expect fast progress, this is a slower motion experiment. 


Pics when I can.


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow! That should provide unlimited switching challenges.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Vic 

Looks like a fun little layout.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic 

You have a lot of switches. 

How do you plan to operate them all? 

In seeing your proposed layout with all the switches reminded me of an HO layout my father once built. 

He used string to operate all the switches from the control location. 

He used a spring to hold the switch for the main line or straight. Then the string was atached to pull the switch closed for the curve. 

He had handles on all the strings so he could pull the string, close the switch for the curve and then hook the handle so the switch stayed for the desired track. 

He had the string run through eyes that screwed into the bench work. 

It worked very well.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy they are all digitally operated ...namely you use the digital devices located on the end of your knuckles ;-) 

They are manual control but I am using a Crest Basic Train Engineer control so I have hands free walk around control. It worked really well on the old layout.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Aha! So this is what the big secret was all about! 

Continuous run and lots of switching - even looks like you got a 'Wye' worked in there. Everything reachable 
at first glance. 

Strings to control switches? Hmmm...have to think about that. Mine are manual - but I did pick up a few 
remote switches - minus the directions. Have to figure out how to wire them sometime. 

So what is to become of the pizza now? Will it languish or will it eventually be connected to the rest?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

The pizza is its own layout. Its the detailed layout, this one is more for Ops. Was out testing everything, seams to be working OK, even the wye is working as intended (thanks Atlas controllers) so its up and running.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Very good use of space, interesting as well, lots of switches, difficult to navigate without backing up. You would probably be limited to smaller rolling stock. 
I have been planning a small indoor layout (8'X14') for quite sometime but I have yet to come with a satisfactory one.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Victor; 

Looks like a LOT of fun. I forgot about the Atlas switch for controlling wyes. Thanks for bringing that back to my attention. 

Best, 
David Meashey


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

vic that looks like a great layout-very cleverly routed 
im thinking trains will be limited to 1-2 cars in order to negotiate the switchbacks and team tracks -perhaps more using FRR type stock 

and 

you envision urban.. 
i envision something like virginia city-a desert town, adjacent to a mine (the three track yard area) 
perhaps even mexican 

clever too how youve made arm reach feasible


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, most rolling stock will be HLW mini-cars, theme will be like you stated, Giles' "Catwater & Southern" over on GSC is a big influence on me giving this a second shot. 

Mohammed, keep at it, I have other plans if, for ideas sake, you are interested


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By vsmith on 26 Jul 2011 09:19 AM 
Steve, most rolling stock will be HLW mini-cars, theme will be like you stated, Giles' "Catwater & Southern" over on GSC is a big influence on me giving this a second shot. 

Mohammed, keep at it, I have other plans if, for ideas sake, you are interested  Vic: Of course I am interested, I would be very gratefull


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Mohammed, PM sent

Some construction pics: Fiddle Yard area



Peninsula:



These were taken back when I was doing the benchwork. Need to upload current pics tonight.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

looks good Vic.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Vic: pm sent, hope it works this time.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Pics of the layout so far





Peninsula:








Fiddle Yard:





Lift bridge:






Thats all for now.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Vic, do you even know what a bed is


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Updated track plan showing changes from original layout


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic...looks like you need a second garage to handle the overflow from the first one (but what the heck, I'm the same way - car barn gets real crowded in the winter). 

What is with that spur track most of the way in the upper left corner of your track plan? The one that heads for the edge of the world and keeps right on going?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I was experimenting with the idea of a cassette track (a short removable section of track used to switch out cars/engines/whole trains - its a micro-layout staple) to change trains or cars, cars that are to be interchanged get shoved off onto to that siding (and off the layout) where they are exchanged for new cars to be delivered. That way the interchange track in the Fiddle Yard is only for engines which would be taken off or exchanged in the same manner in lieu of not having any engine facilities on the layout.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Some actual progress on the indoor layout, been making flats for the backdrop area:


Piko facade reworked:





Upland Trains resin building cut up into a facade flat, used the rest elsewhere.





and the rest of the building:








In place with the House of Balsa hotel and the reworked cheap dollhouse model:





heres the rest of the Piko building converted to flats:





and part of the Upland Trains resin building:





I found 2 ceramic facades made in Mexico as tourist souveniers, they are perfect for LS
Heres one:





Heres the other with the Piko flat and a flat from a company called Backshop








Lastley here is another older Piko flat and a test of where the rest of the Upland flats will go:





and the last of my old Piko flats from the previous layout, should have kept more but oh well:





Begun the first of the total scratchbuilt buildings remaining, they will be foamcore with various coverings. 





More on that as it gets done.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Victor; 

Nice work. Is that one of the old Tyco HO "loop the loop" trains that I see in the background on the first photo? 

Best, 
David Meashey


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, Nope, its a Hot Wheels Sizzlers "Hot Train" from the 70's, ran on Hot Wheels track strips and was almost as fast as that Tyco thing.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

OOOO!! The old Sizzlers cars were awesome! Trains, cars, and even some motorcycles or trikes! LOL! my cars self destructed years ago but I've still got a box of track some place? Even a figure 8 of the high bank curves and straights in 3 lane wide. 

Chas


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"Nope, its a Hot Wheels Sizzlers "Hot Train" from the 70's" 

Okay, I vaguely remember those. 

Thanks, 
David Meashey


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave Meashey on 06 Feb 2012 09:50 AM 
"Nope, its a Hot Wheels Sizzlers "Hot Train" from the 70's" 

Okay, I vaguely remember those. 

Thanks, 
David Meashey 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi_z5vKvQnI

I havent tried to set up the set I picked up on Ebay, its like this one though, I had a HUGE setup of this stuff when I was like 10. Toyed with the idea of using the ones I have to build a large scale set of these trains, just to terrorize the Fairplex layout during the shows but with the SWGRS in limbo, I dont have much incentive to do so.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

I like the building line up. Are you going to make a common connecting sidewak for them?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Some will. Others are ment to be rears of businesses that are backed up to the tracks. I got alot done in a short span. Mostly due to picking up some stuff at the GATS. I have to step back and take another look at where I want to focus on next. I kinda have to work from the rear spaces outward.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

The signs on your buildings what are they made of and did you make them they add a lot to your buildings. thanks pete


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pete on 14 Feb 2012 07:56 AM 
The signs on your buildings what are they made of and did you make them they add a lot to your buildings. thanks pete 

Pete they came from a thread on the Model Railroader forums. I printed them on cardstock on a color printer. I'll try to post a link to the specific thread when I on the home comp'fuser. I'm mobile at the moment.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks vic. The whole project is looking good. Keep the pictures coming


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

From the Model Railroader forum: 

http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/162879.aspx 

48 pages of *FREE* signs


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok Vic...I got quite a pile of the olde Bachmann Cardstock buildings - all of them except the Toy Shop, if memory serves. You want one or two of them to play around with?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

T, thanks for the offer but I dont know where I would intigrate them into the layout, everything is already pretty tightly allocated Space-wise, theres not really any wiggle room to add new things. The flats are done so now I have to move into the main body of the layout and those buildings are already designed and just need to be built. I'm working on one of them now. I'm hoping to paint the backdrop sometime this weekend, then I can fix the flats in place.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Speaking of switch control, I remember reading an article in an old model railroad magazine a long time ago where the switches on the railroad were controled by using the old choke control cables with levers on the side of the layout. That was all done from under the table using the old style turnout controls where a rod went up through the table and then a 90 degree bend, and that went to the turnout throw lever to push it one way or pull it the other. I still remember it because I thought it was quite clever at the time, and if I ever actually build an indoor railroad, I might try some form of that. You could probably use thin cables and pulleys with a spring for tension also.


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## nziain (Nov 15, 2011)

what a neat wee layout, any pictures of the overall layout to get a better idea of the setup also what loco's and stock you using?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Some updates, backdrop painted and building flats in place:

Starting from the staging yard:





The brewery, showing interior, for now it will keep the “Lucky Lager” sign, when I can make a custom sign it will be called “Mik’s Irish Ales”





Note to Mik: here’s where a lot of the “stuff” you sent me ended up 



the other side of the brewery



looking into the corner





forced perspective insert, you’ll see a couple other background pics filling the gaps.



Looking at the other corner



Still have to build the mine building to fill this corner





Finally adding another storage shelf above, I really had to do this as once the backdrop was painted it was really overwhelming and very distracting, adding the shelf draws the eye back down to the layout level, and I really needed the extra storage space for trains.



that’s all for now.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Victor;

It's really looking good. The brewery "stuff" really looks complicated and busy.
















Best,
David Meashey


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## carlferg (Mar 18, 2009)

The facade "Arendts odds & ends" would that be an homage to the late Carl Arendt of micro layout fame? What you have done with this is impressive and inspiring. Carl Ferg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks all 

The sky is still overwhelming the layouts, decided to spray a hill profile onto the backdrop with some red oxide primer, will give the buidings a darker, more neutral background. Pics this weekend.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Added some paint to the backdrop to give some depth shadows, and added some building photos printed on heavy cardstock. Seams to make a difference.

















I really like the effect, and I will add some more printed building flats to the rear backdrop








The only trouble is finding pictures that are large enough and flat enough to be usefull. I'm trying not to reuse the same buildings twice but its not easy to find the right pics.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Victor;

It's really looking good. Tom Harris has done something similar for his Lakeside Lines HO model railroad. I'm putting a link to his photo section here. He took his own photos and sized them, then printed them on a color printer for use with his backdrops. You may want to try something similar.

Best,
David Meashey


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Little progress


Eat At The Dog on the layout, but I'm not sure I might change its location with another building yet to build, 



 


 


Added a tank (oatmeal container) outside the brewery


 


Added the freighthouse, its foamcore with wood trim, piko windows and Precision doors


 


Painted the rails, goes along way to giving the track a consistent look.






Thats all for now


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Dunno Vic...seems to me the Dogs customers would have a good chance of getting run over by the 5:15 train to Denver or maybe the 3:40 express to nowhere at its current location. Got room for it along the facade section somewhere? 

Speaking of facades...I'm *still* working on that huge factory facade for my layout. The main part of it is seven feet long, and it has just enough depth for just enough interior detail to make things infuriating. Still have two smaller sections to tack onto each end as well...though the one is going to have to wait until the snow here melts down to the point I can get into my storage shed for that sono-tube. Even more depressing i(aside from all the teeny little mistakes that to my eye have giant red arrows pointing at them) is that as large as it is, the factory facade is only barely big enough to represnt part of one end of an actual factory complex. But I've rattled on enough here...


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I was going to do a parking lot with the stand but realisticly I think my planned power station will work much better in this spot, so I'll move the stand across the tracks where it was, also going to add a water tower next to the freight station, slowely its moving along.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Powerplant underway, foamcore walls, Piko windows, Precision Products doorway, strathmore and wood trimmings.



















The bggest problem with large scale is thats its... well, so dam large! Layouts getting crowded.

Adding corbeling:



















Just strathmore museum board cut into rectangles, scored and bent and glued down, also added a cut up Marx tinplate bridge, I only paid $10 for it so its not rare, but dont tell any TTOS guys, I dont think they'd understand



















Us indoor guys can get away with murrr-derrr compared to outdoor standards


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

The bggest problem with large scale is thats its... well, so dam large! 

Aint that the truth! Even when I leave what I think of as generous margins of error, I *still* end up running out of space more often than not.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Some revisions and new additions:


Moved to powerplant, fits better here, cut off the third floor, it was just too much, this may be turned into a different business, still deciding that.








New building , this originally was a brewery, but since I already have the Lucky Lager business, this will be a bottling plant Coca Cola or something like that.








The Dog will go back to its original spot, where I thought of placing it where I considered it was only a matter of time before it got damaged.





Finally, I found another ceramic building, a western themed building this time, needs a few repairs but it fits nicely in this corner. 



Only one building left to add, and its going to be the toughest because the corner, next to the newest ceramic building above, is the trickiest to fit something into.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Possible Long Term plan, eventually extend across the remainder of the garage, add a river wharf and an engine facility. The layout will eventually be modeled after the first railroad in Los Angeles, the Los Angeles and San Pedro railroad, which went from the port (swamp) to the city (dusty pueblo). although my port will more likely be a navigable section of the lower Colorado river but I still might make it somewhere along the rugged California coastline. This will take along time to do, need to consolidate an aweful lot of stuff to clear the area.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Feeling reckless again, going to be a big change,no changes in the layout proper but big change in geopgraphy. 

Here is the Master Plan, I am repurposing the layout as an full-on urban harbor terminal type line, 










I have been fighting doing this for a long time, mostly just being pigheaded about keeping the desert theme, but I just could not make it work in my mind all the while the layout plan just screamed urban waterfront, I finally realized that most of my big stuff is not decaled for the Borracho line, just numbered. and that I had alot of stuff than would with very little effort, be convertable to the urban theme layout. what finally did it was reading this site one too many times:


http://www.trainweb.org/bedt/IndustrialLocos.html


One day my mind just clicked (or is that snapped) "yeah, I could do this without any major surgery" so there it is..


The boats will all be movable, just sitting on the surface, the aisleway water will be a fold down section that during ops will be kept down for layout access, and up for photo taking, the biggest single change will be switching from link/pins back to knuckle couplers, probably Bachmann's. Haven't decided on a name yet, but the era will likely be post-war 1950's just before these lines were beginning to disappear. 

No name yet, not really worrying about that, some ideas:


Brooklyn South Rwy - keeps the BSR already on some engines

or maybe something a little more unique: 


Gotham District Transfer 
Gotham Harbor Transfer


As I said, I'm really not in a sweat over the name. So here we go


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic, 

I think that's gonna look great! 

Best, 
TJ


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Vic, I was impressed with the layout allready but with this extention it is look to become a true masterpiece again. I' like the way you put it all together, like composing a painting. Can't wait to see more of it so hopefully some picyures are to come?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Good to see that you are still having fun with it, in that vein ... are you going to offer Container Service? 
As always it will be interesting to see what you do. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That would make a great little layout for a couple of DCC or battery locos shunting cars around and avoiding each other. 

(actually DCC would be better, because you might want to run really small locos, like an 0-4-0 docksider, or some small baldwins) 

Come to think of it, what locos will and can you run on that? 

Greg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 Oct 2012 12:17 PM 
That would make a great little layout for a couple of DCC or battery locos shunting cars around and avoiding each other. 

(actually DCC would be better, because you might want to run really small locos, like an 0-4-0 docksider, or some small baldwins) 

Come to think of it, what locos will and can you run on that? 

Greg 



I have quite a mixed roster to select from, Piko 0-6-0 s, LGB Porters, couple kitbashed Boxcabs. Right now this is a one man show so no DCC for the time being, I am using a Basic Train Engineer RC control.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No problems with the Piko on those curves? (I forgot if the center driver is blind).. 

Two people could have a lot of fun on that layout... at the same time! 

Too bad you can't bring that to the show! 

greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Pretty cool layout. Should be an interesting operating layout. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

After some feedback from some smaller scale guys familiar with dockside type railroads, track plan has been revised a tad to include a holding spur next to the transfer barge and a run around at the gantry crane spur










Maybe I should call this the Spaghetti Central


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Been studying harbor layouts again. Since I drew that plan idea for Bandit on the 2'R thread, kinda got some more ideas last weekend, top pic is the version based on Bandit's suggested plan, bottom version is based on a plan found on Carl Arendts scrapbook, modified into G, again all R1 curves. Both are self contained Harbor Transfer layouts complete with car float in/out service and could be an interesting ops layout in a small footprint:









Just to show another way to approach a self contained switching layout, the bottom version is a lot bigger but its based on a real facility in Harlem NYC. Maybe its just me, but the more I study these the more I am surprised they are not more commonly modeled in any scale, the float operation is a perfect excuse for a small totally self contained switching layout with lots of action and a roundy-round option.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been continuing my examination of harbor terminal layout design, I find R1 design translates well at 75% reduction to HO 18"R, I took the plan above for a fellow on MLS and reduced it to HO, which I am now so very tempted to try:










This also includes another harbor terminal layout, the first large terminal in the first pic above with the circular freight house was based on a terminal in the Bronx, this lower one is based on a Harlem area terminal, again totally self contained little railroads with lots of operations. The upper right layout is a condensed version of the Harlem yard, both are based on plans from Carl Arendts website.

My biggest problem is that I have far more ideas than I have space to provide for them, so almost all of them will never get beyond the plan stage


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

To whom it may concern, due to circumstances beyond my control (Vertical Scope screwing the pooch and deleting 80MB of my photo history three months ago with no resolution) This and all other threads of my 10+ years of activity on this site are now closed, if you are curious please look to my identical threads on LargeScaleCentral which in the coming months I will attempt to re-edit photos into from my personal archives once I have a new storage site up and running. It was fun while it lasted but the collective of monkeys now running this site now have soured my experience. Have a good day.


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