# Bachmann 4-6-0 Locos Converted to RC and battery power. Sound?



## CalsoRR (Oct 2, 2010)

Hello, Im fairly new to G-scale and have been operating N-scale (w/DCC) trains for the past 25+ years and in the past 4 years i find I'm becoming a big fan of the larger scale....might be I'm older and my eyes aren't what they use to be or the fact my kids love this size also....family fun outside in the garden sounds good to me!
So I've sold off most of my large N-scale collection and have been slowing purchasing G-scale stock...mainly around Christmas time when I get to set it up in the living room 

One of the reasons I wanted to switch to the larger scale is I'm also into RC heli/planes and fly them by wireless video from the cockpit view so having all the RC gear already I wanted to convert my Bachmann locos to battery power so multiple trains could run...like DCC but with out the track cleaning that made running my N-scale trains a chore. 

To convert it to RC I use a Novak ESC called a Super Rooster....this is one of the only speed controls that allow the higher voltage battery pack that is needed to be a close match to the DC track power. Since it handles 10 cells at 1.5 volts it powers the locos with a 4s 2200mah 14.8 volt lipo battery (16.4v nor.). For RC control I use my Futaba 9C 2.4ghz radio in Heli mode which allows me to program reverse with the throttle stick set to the center position for neutral....not sure if there's a better way but this was simple and easy. I found the conversion to be fairly simple with the hardest part being taking the locos apart to add the wires. The RC receiver, NovaK ESC and battery are located in the tender and then just the 2 wires run up to the loco for the power with a Deans Ultra connector to make the connection between the 2.
I have to say that battery powered locos Rock!!....I love the control and No jerking/lunging over switches or dirty track. I will never go back to track power! 

So this Christmas the train layout has been re located from the living room to the front yard garden...which needed help anyways.

For sounds I have added a ipod with whistle sounds triggered by a micro servo pushing the "play/pause" button...though this works ok I can only play one sound when triggered. I would like more sounds (bell,steam,etc) to be triggered using one of the other 7 RC channels I have free. 

My ??? is there a sound board that would work better with normally closed/open loops for triggering different sounds. I'v been hunting around on the net and it seems like a gray area and the sound mudules with magnet and reed switches look promising for RC and loco sound but if someone could share a link or what they use I would be very grateful.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow. An unorthodox but perfectly acceptable way to add r/c + battery to your loco. 

If you poke around the RC/Battery forum, you'll find conversations about rc/dcc (Airwire is the principle supplier) and a host of proprietary systems that do many of the same things. (I use RCS at the moment.) One thing the train r/c systems have is buttons (like a dcc controller) instead of sticks - makes it easier to put down the tx and watch the train go by while sipping your favorite beverage! It's not going to smash into the ground if you don't keep your finger on the stick.

Sound systems are triggered from the RR throttles which have sound triggers built in (unlike a car ESC.) Which doesn't stop you triggering them yourself using the spare r/c channels. Check out Soundtraxx and Phoenix, both supply polyphonic (two things at once) sounds boards.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 23 Oct 2010 01:33 PM 
Wow. An unorthodox but perfectly acceptable way to add r/c + battery to your loco. 



Not exactly unorthodox, but yes, certainly acceptable.

I started out 25 years ago making ESC's for stick radios and that is where I am now concentrating my efforts.
The 2.4 GHz systems do not require any motor "noise" suppression to get fantastic range.
The stick radios allow for proper digital proportional control over the whole throttle stick range, not just 50 % of an elevator stick.
My ESC's have constant brightness lighting and four programmable sound triggers built in. No extra bits needed.
Given a suitable RX is used they don't even need servo leads to the RX. The RX simply plugs in upside down on the decoder pcb.

Yes the Sierra and Phoenix are Polyphonic and so is Dallee. In the latest issue of Garden Railways. Dallas Guttaker has had a letter published debunking the myth that current model Dallee sound systems are not Polyphonic. They are.
MyLocosound is another cheap and cheerful sound system that will work with pretty well any ESC including my RCS brand.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Polyphonic technically means more than one sound at the same time. 

Most people understand it to be that all the sounds can be at the same time. 

Of the examples I have seen on youtube, not ALL the sounds on a Dallee are possible at the same time. 

I'll believe it when I hear it. Merely making a recording of a horn or bell that already has the prime mover sound in the background is not what people consider "polyphonic" since there is no "mixer".. 

All deference to the obviously very interested manufacturer, I will believe it when I hear it. 

Regards, Greg


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, according to the review in the latest Garden Railways magazine, you are absolutely correct. The normal soundboards offered by Dallee are monophonic. I know the few Dallee boards I have are monophonic. The interesting technique they use though is they do record the horn sound with the 8 different notches of engine sound, so that when the horn blows you do get the engine sound along with the horn, and if you are running at a constant speed, the engine speed will be correct. Although this is certainly not like polyphonic sound, it is, in my opinion, a pretty neat way to get "most" of the advantages of polyphonic sound when sounding the horn.

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes a good workaround for Dallee, because before sounding the horn totally muted the prime mover, and it was very obvious. I think it's also a problem that cannot be solved for steamers, since there is no set of just 8 notches for the prime mover, so this "trick" cannot be used. 

Most of the more sophisticated sound units have individual volume controls for each sound, and then they are "mixed" to the final output. As a low cost unit with an older design, the Dallee just can't do this. It's OK, it is a low cost unit. The only thing I object to is using the "polyphonic" description, it's really misleading in my opinion. 

But, everyone is entitled to advertise, I certainly don't begrudge them making money. 

Tony, is there somewhere I can read that letter by "Dallas Guttaker" .... so far I don't think there is a myth to debunk, but proper description of what is really possible. 

Again, I would encourage the manufacturers to post videos on youtube, easy, free, and then there can be no argument what can or cannot be done. 

Regards, Greg


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## CalsoRR (Oct 2, 2010)

Thanks for the replies







.... I was looking at the Dallee after reading about it and I got from it that I would still need the iPod for whistle and stock chuff sound from the Bachmann tender then just use the Dallee for bell, steam release sounds...if it plays one sound at a time....but this is probably to much gear for my tenders limited space....the iPod takes up a lot of room.

For the stick Rc radio I wanted to stay with this mainly because I have it but also I do alot of wireless camera work and want to use the aileron and elevator sticks for operating the Pan and Tilt servos on board the train and hope to use the other switch channels for sound triggering.

My plan is through the cold months is to run the trains with wireless video from the engineers view while I sit in my heated shop ....I do this now with RC planes and Helis...more info at www.fpvpilot.com

Here's some videos of my trains and flying ...gives an idea of what I would like to do with the garden. I know I could add sound later in the video but it's not the same as having it in real time .


Youtube Video Links:

FPV piloting[/b]

Nscale in FPV[/b]

Gscale Christmas 2009[/b]


http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...iptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't take our "fine point" stuff the wrong way, you can use the Dallee, just that it is not the ultimate sound system. It's a reasonable price based on what it does. Compared to the stereo sound on your iPod, well, the fidelity won't match, that's for sure. 

Just listen to it go through it's paces and see if you like it or not, there are other inexpensive solutions also, tons of threads on what you are asking. 

Search youtube for Dallee ... 

also, use the forum search for dallee, you will find the threads on sound systems... lot's of good discussions and info. 


Regards, Greg


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## CalsoRR (Oct 2, 2010)

Hummm....just watched some videos on youtube with it.....Im not that impressed with the bell sound, etc....my iPod is looking better......it got me thinking though....wireless blue tooth speaker in the tender with the iPod in hand...now I can chose from a list of different sounds and have them played from the train. 
May have to look into this deeper as it could be nice to have actual recorded sounds coming from the train.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you're just looking for one or two sounds (bell, whistle), you may want to look into RamTrack's digital sound cards. They're $40/board, so you can't get too many sounds before you're in the price range of the Phoenix or Sierra boards, but for one sound, they're not a bad way to go. 

Dallas Guttaker has had a letter published debunking the myth that current model Dallee sound systems are not Polyphonic. They are. 
Just to clarify, the steam line of Dallee sound systems is currently monophonic. Just the diesels/electrics are "semi-polyphonic." From his letter, the prime mover sounds still cut out when the horn is played, but they are mixed with the bell for when the bell is played. Not a bad workaround, but definitely difficult (impossible) to do on a steam system where the chuff is triggered by a sensor. 

BTW, if you e-mail Dallee, they've got some of their sounds on line for you to listen to. I don't think it's accessible from the web yet, but from their e-mail, it sounds like something they're slowly working on. 

Later, 

K


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## CalsoRR (Oct 2, 2010)

Thanks, One sound card with what im using might be the way to go.

I uploaded a short video that shows what I've been using.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great idea, no one has mentioned doing that before... range might be an issue, but the newer stuff has good range. What can you get a wireless bluetooth speaker for? 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
The letter from Dallas Guttacker is in the letters section of the curent issue of GR. 

I read the text one way. Others have read it another way. 
My apologies if I am wrong.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony, I always believe what you say, you've never steered me wrong, no implication of that intended. 

My GR has not appeared, will take a look soon. 

Regards, Greg


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## CalsoRR (Oct 2, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 24 Oct 2010 01:12 PM 
Great idea, no one has mentioned doing that before... range might be an issue, but the newer stuff has good range. What can you get a wireless bluetooth speaker for? 

Greg 
Yep it seems to be a range issue with it....100 feet seems to be the most I can find which would work for me but the cost is up there for the system....still researching and looks promising.


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

CalsoRR, 
I'm interested to know if you have any motor whine while using the Novak ESC. I tried an airplane ESC with a servo activated dpdt for direction and got a terrible whine out of the motor. Then I tried boat ESC with reversing and again got the whine. Its a result of the ESC's switching rate being too low. Again I'm just wondering if your Novak has a high enough switching rate to prevent the motor whine. 
Wow you use pretty expensive radio equipment. You might want to look into the cheapie 2.4 systems offered from Hobbypartz.com or Hobby King. 
Anxious to see your continued work particularly with sound. 
Dave


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## CalsoRR (Oct 2, 2010)

Posted By Dave Ottney on 28 Oct 2010 02:23 PM 
CalsoRR, 
I'm interested to know if you have any motor whine while using the Novak ESC. I tried an airplane ESC with a servo activated dpdt for direction and got a terrible whine out of the motor. Then I tried boat ESC with reversing and again got the whine. Its a result of the ESC's switching rate being too low. Again I'm just wondering if your Novak has a high enough switching rate to prevent the motor whine. 
Wow you use pretty expensive radio equipment. You might want to look into the cheapie 2.4 systems offered from Hobbypartz.com or Hobby King. 
Anxious to see your continued work particularly with sound. 
Dave 
Hi Dave, There's some motor whine but it's very slight and hardly noticeable with the Novak ESC and then add the chuff sound and it drowns it completely out. I also added caps on the motor wire leads the same ones you fined on RC brushed motors.
I buy from Hobby King alot for my net business and I fly FPV Rc helis and use the same radios so no reason to buy the HK stuff as I have many 2.4 RX that work with the Futaba and don't want another brand to match. They do have good prices on 2.4 RC radios and it's where I get my Lipo batteries.....


With the better brushless motors that are out now I'm going to convert my Bachmann motors to a BL outrunner. I have found some quit ones from HK that don't jerk at low speeds that Im using in 1 1/8 RC cars... 270 size and 750KV seems to be a good match. I'll report back or start a thread when I do that conversion .


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