# Track Question



## Aaron S (Aug 1, 2013)

I plan on starting to buy some track for my first garden train. I plan on having R/C powered so I will not be running any current through the track. I'm looking at the SSVR aluminum track. I was wondering how durable this track is? I don't want to have to replace it if a bird lands on it or something. Does anyone use this track?

Aaron


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't use Al rail, but my understanding is that it is fine if it doesn't get stepped on. On an elevated layout there shouldn't be a problem, if it is on the ground you will need to be careful. If you have deer in your neighborhood, like I do, you might want a different type of rail.

Chuck


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Keep in mind that aluminum is just over half the cost of brass. Even if you have some damage (and it can't be straightened out), you're still ahead financially.

I haven't bought my track yet, but I'm also planning to use code 250 aluminum.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've used aluminum rail, both code 332 and code 250. So long as it's on a solid foundation (well-tamped crushed stone, cement, sturdy wood, etc.) it will work very well. My dad's 1000+ feet of aluminum rail (code 332) has been down for 34 years, and has withstood numerous tramplings by feet (little, big, paws, even the rare deer hoof) without any trouble. 

When I lived in upstate NY, I had 600' of code 250 Aluminum on the ground. It lasted the 6 years I was there without any issue. It was just floating in crusher fines, and survived the occasional snag by the garden hose or extension cord without kinking. 

The key to any track--but especially aluminum--is a solid foundation. If the ground can give under the track, it's going to bend. 

Later,

K


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## JWR (Mar 12, 2014)

@ Aaron S,

If you are going to run R/C it's perfect, just elevate it high enough off the ground so that no heavy animals or humans walk on it.

Even if I was running electrical I would go with it. It actually forms a protective shield although in the form of an oxidized coating that would need to be scraped, but the pitting everyone always talks about means nothing because Aluminum has a self healing quality about it.

I've seen up close test done at 20 years exposed to marine environment salt air and although it was pitted it was still structurally sound with no lost in original strength. These where test, not Joe consumer stating their observations.

I run Aluminum inside with a very high humidity which is even higher to outside humidity and I have no real way to control the humidity because of ventilation. I run electrical. I don't use a green pad on it because I don't want to put in fine lines in it. I weathered the sides of the rails and keep the top dry by wiping it down a few times a day during the bad month or so we get hammered with the humidity.

How high is that humidity, I have to run a mop in certain areas on my ceramic tile floor. Where talking wet here. Not damp. 

So, get it off the ground at least by 16" preferably 24" or even higher. I'm up even inside because of how wet the floor gets and I'm at over 36" which is real nice viewing for large scale, makes you almost feel your part of the action.

And don't fasten it down, find some 'crusher fines' for ballast and let it float, after a few good rains it will settle nice and strong but still allow for contraction. If you can't find the 'crusher fines' at your local home center call a gravel place up and see if they have any.

And with running R/C you won't even have to worry about that crusty oxidation scraping it off. 

One quick note here, often times people will run into problems when they try to mix certain mentals together it then creates electrolysis. Which can corrode and fail structurally over time. i.e. mixing copper with iron etc. You'll mainly see that in home plumbing where the home owner did a jerry rig job and didn't know any better. Tripping over nickles to only save pennies in the end as it where.


Have fun and happy railroading.


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## Aaron S (Aug 1, 2013)

Thanks to everyone for their great responses. I plan to use cement blocks as the foundation of the road bed. Then place the tracks and ballast on top of that. Another question. What do you use to weather the sides of the rails?


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## JWR (Mar 12, 2014)

Aaron S said:


> What do you use to weather the sides of the rails?


Aaron,

Don't use anything outside. It will weather itself over time and it will look fine. If you paint them you'll be forever painting them. Inside is another story because you are not dealing with the elements. And once you ballast it and preferably with a medium brown color you'll won't really notice it anyway.

I'm by no means an expert on this stuff. This comes from years of reading what the pros have tips give away and when I say pros I mean those who build these outdoor railroads for Mr. & Mrs. Richie Rich.
Which leads me to make a comment about your cider block base.

You got to make sure you place them on solid footing/the ground. And keep a level with you as you go along to make sure they stay as level as you can because R/C does not like grades all that much. Even if the level shows a minimal slant over distant it grows and to the naked eye you won't even see it.

Other wise I think your plan is good. The key is how stable the ground is beneath them, if they shift later on ya your track will look like a roller coaster. 

Keep up the good work.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

R/C doesn't care about the grades on my layout as long as they aren't steep. 2% is a nice grade and shouldn't affect your running. If grades are having a bad effect on running, your grades are too steep or the battery too small. I'm not talking roller coaster climbs, but common railroad engineering.
Get a sponge/foam paint brush and run it along the sides of your rails, if that matters to you. You could also lay paper over the ties and spray the rails... from the side close to the ties.
Mr. JWR lives in an extreme humidity, from what I see here. Your paint shouldn't flake off the rail. I run SS and leave it naked, moisture and dust have toned it down some, but it doesn't bother me, other little things bug me....
If I were starting over I'd go with the .250 Al w/ R/C ... Aristo SS was at my local train shop so that was my choice.
Happy Rails,
John


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

It should be fine. The rail is solid metal, not hollow. Clamps are the best way to go on fastening the rails. If you are on the blocks, don't screw the rail down to it, the aluminum expands some, so you want it to be able to move some. I've had SVRR NS rail and it and it's ties are a good product. Peter is a good guy to deal with. Rail can be spray painted, the running of the trains will wear it off the top. I'd assemble it before painting, ties would slide on easier. Could cut a piece of wood to protect the center of the ties from the paint and lay a piece over the ends of the ties. You could paint the sides with a brush, but that could drive you nuts! It's a good hobby, enjoy it.
PS-Glad you are going with code 250, it looks MUCH better with the engines/cars, they look real. I think they look toy-like on the larger code 250.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

_"Don't use anything outside. It will weather itself over time and it will look fine. If you paint them you'll be forever painting them._"

Neither aluminum nor stainless will weather outdoors, so if you want your rails to look realistic (rusty sides, shiny tops), then you have to paint them. Use good paint on it, and it will last. (Many use Krylon or similar brown primer.) As I mentioned above, my dad's aluminum rail has been down for 34 years, and we've never had to repaint the rails in all that time. Here's a shot of one of the oldest sections on the line:










We used exterior-grade house paint on this rail. (I don't remember if it was water or oil-based.) Don't use model railroad spray paints, as they're typically not UV stable. I used Floquil's "Rail Brown" on my RR in upstate NY, thinking it was a better "rust" than the Krylon ruddy brown primer. Within a year, the red pigments faded out, and I had olive green rails. I lived with it, but lesson learned. Use the UV-stable stuff.
_
"And keep a level with you as you go along to make sure they stay as level as you can because R/C does not like grades all that much."_

Er, come again? There's no difference in how an R/C-controlled train handles a grade as opposed to track-powered. As a general rule, it's recommended to keep your grades at 4% or lower, but the source of electrons and control for the trains has no impact on how the trains handle grades. _Live steam_ on the other hand, is very susceptible to changes in grades, so if you're planning on doing live steam down the road, you'll probably want to keep the grades at 2% or lower. (Flat would be ideal if you're going to have manually-controlled live steamers.) 

Later,

K


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## JWR (Mar 12, 2014)

@ East Broad Top 
Super Moderator

That's some nice looking track there. If I had to guess I'd say 'ole dad used oil base on them rails.

34 years, use that on your house too.

And yes grades will affect your run time on battery. You got the money and the time then no problem stock up and keep 'em moving.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

"And yes grades will affect your run time on battery. You got the money and the time then no problem stock up and keep 'em moving"

*????

Not with today's batteries, maybe you should clarify your negatives. Mine are known to provide 4 or more hours of run time ... plenty for me, what are your requirements that justifies your expense statement?
I have time, but little money... yet I can run anywhere...
Oh by the way, my trains also come down and gain some back over the distance.
 Happy Rails,

John
*


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I too operate solely with battery powered R/C engines. I have found that the aluminum track is as resistant to bending and damage as is my brass track. The alloy used in the aluminum track appears to have a very similar strength/bending resistance as my brass track does. In the future I plan to only purchase aluminum track and switches. I like the color of the oxidized track better than the aluminum, but for the price difference, for me it's a no brainer.

Ed


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## JWR (Mar 12, 2014)

Hells bells, that sounds mighty good to me Totalwreker.
And hadn't realize that batteries where that cheap.
I did figure though perhaps up to a 4 hr. run time. Although I was thinking with the grades and any weight behind them perhaps an average of 2 hours. But still doable.

Ya see one learns something everyday. Of course I could never justify the expense for myself going R/C just another nickle and dime ya forever.
But if I had the access disposable income you better believe I'd go R/C but as it is the juice is cheap and being indoors the cleaning doesn't stress me out even if I was outdoors the cleaning would be no biggie for me. 

I myself only got back into large scale because of it's size, but to be honest with you all the rest of it can be a real money pit. I want to have some fun on the cheap. And cheap I went. Not to mention I don't have 20+ years left to enjoy it anymore. I can take down and set up in less then 30 minutes to give you some idea of the complexity of my set-up.

Happy railroading.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Excuse me but I signed as John, totalwrecker is just a handle here.
I wonder why an indoors guy wants to advise an outdoor guy?

When I was new, I got questionable advice, like yours, cost me big. For me to use wire out side would be a never ending battle, there are nickle and dimes both ways. I have a modest 143' of mainline down outside ... my latest thread here; The Last Frontier (as if) part 3. would be a good intro.

Yes G $cale can cost, but it can also be reasonable. 20 year old advice???? a little temporary indoor oval.... 
Oh .......

Have a great day.
I'm cheap.

John


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## JWR (Mar 12, 2014)

Totalwrecker said:


> Excuse me but I signed as John, totalwrecker is just a handle here.
> I wonder why an indoors guy wants to advise an outdoor guy?



Didn't mean to insult you, I didn't see your sign in John.
As far as advice I don't give nor have, I only make comments.
If it comes off as advice that is not the real intent, just throwing my 2cents out there.

I've been around enough of these forums to understand the gurus are dime a dozen. And have no intention in getting involved in any soap operas.

Once again no offense was meant.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The effect of grades on battery life is actually quite negligible. In theory--yes--trains running up steep grades would draw more current than they do running flat or on lesser grades. But in practice, it's not enough of a difference to worry about. My dad's railroad has 4 - 5% grades, whereas mine has a maximum 2.5%. He and I use the same battery packs, and we both get the same life out of them. (There's the "what goes up must come down" aspect of the equation, too. A train going _down_ a 4% grade draws less current than a train going down a 2.5% grade. So, things balance out a bit.) 

Typically, _how_ you run and _what_ you run has far more of an impact on battery life than _where_ you run. 

Later,

K


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## Aaron S (Aug 1, 2013)

I'm not planning on having much of a grade for the time being. My yard has a slight slope that drains water away from the house. My plan is to pick a ground zero, like the trestle bridge over the water fall/ stream, and try to keep the track level with that. If I did that then the east side of the layout will be slightly elevated, and will provide opportunity to have mountains, valley's and plenty of bridges. On the west side, I will have to cut down into the ground and that will allow me to involve, canyons, tunnels, and more mountains. I see it as I am lucky enough to have the slope so that the train will appear to rise and fall over the landscape but instead it will be the landscape that will be making elevation changes. 
Now that I have the track decided on, I'm going to order my first batch in the next couple of days. Then I can get to work on making the bridge. For that I'm thinking about using a trestle bridge for the west side approach then some sort of truss over the water and the east side will be back at ground level. I'm not sure of the design yet, so I'm catching up on different bridge designs. 
Once again I would like to thank everyone for such spirited advice and comments. I'm sure that I will have an endless supply of questions in the foreseeable future.


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## JWR (Mar 12, 2014)

Aaron S said:


> it will be the landscape that will be making elevation changes.



That's it. It's a trick used in the smaller scales. 
Where they will build on multiple layers of extruded foam insulation board and then carve down into for all the various effects like you want to do. And the track has absolutely no grade.

I doubt you are going to need that much advise more so conformation your thinking is correct.

And it sounds to me like the layout of your land is going to make for one heck of a good looking scene.

Good luck and happy railroading.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

East Broad Top,

That's a very nice station. Was it scratch-built?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Scratchbuilt, yes. It is built on a 1/2" blue foam insulation core with styrene and vinyl patching concrete for the bricks, roof, etc. 

It's based on the Baltimore & Ohio's Oakland, MD depot:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2286576000/sizes/o/in/photostream/

Coincidentally, the station serves the town of Tall Oaks on dad's railroad (also in Maryland).

Later,

K


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## Aaron S (Aug 1, 2013)

lol I was looking at the track and never paid attention to the station. I agree, East Broad Top, you have done some nice scratch building. Seeing stuff like that inspires me to attempt some scratch building when I get a little farther along.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I can't take credit for this station. That's is on my dad's railroad, and the station is entirely his handiwork. Took him about 2 years working on and off to finish it. My buildings use the same blue foam core, but that's where the similarities end. I work much better in styrene than concrete. Fortunately, the depots on my railroad are all of wood construction (clapboard or board-and-batten siding), so styrene works very well for that.










The core construction is the same (1/2" blue foam) but where dad would coat things with concrete and sculpt and shape from there, I use liquid nails or spray adhesive to glue on sheets of styrene. This is a 2-story depot I'm working on now (sitting next to the depot it will replace). 

Later,

K


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