# Smoke Units



## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Bachman Connie with excellent smoke

In this video this guy modified his Connie with some excellent smoke. I saw that he used MTH stuff, but I dont want to use their stuff due to it not being compatable to other stuff. So I was wondering, is it possible to get this kind of smoking from a Airwire/ Battery system??


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure,with the right smoke unit. Problem is that it is really hard to find a smoke unit that will chuff like that. My understanding from talking to a couple manufacturers who would like to do it is that you can get into a patent problem with MTH over doing a smoke unit with chuff. MTH does like to sue.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm surprised MTH hasn't released a stand-alone smoke system yet that can tie into a locomotive's chuff triggers. They'd make a killing. (Of course, with all the smoke being produced, perhaps they're worried about having to put warning labels on the products.  ) 

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Another awesome Rayman4449 conversion! 

Search around here [ google "site:mylargescale.com smoke" or similar] and you'll find evidence of lots of attempts to produce the same effect - but MTH seems to be to best. 
There's a thread on using a marine harbor tug smoke unit somewhere. . .


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## Daniel Peck (Mar 31, 2009)

I have use Proto 1 units for o gauge. It will fit in an aristocraft unit with little mods. smoke just like in the video.... Cost about $50 bucks if you can find them..


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Posted By Paul Burch on 13 Apr 2011 09:04 AM 
Sure,with the right smoke unit.  Problem is that it is really hard to find a smoke unit that will chuff like that.  My understanding from talking to a couple manufacturers who would like to do it is that you can get into a patent problem with MTH over doing a smoke unit with chuff.  MTH does like to sue.


I cant see how MTH can sue over another manufacturer making a smoke unit that works with a chuff. MTH didnt invent that. Its been around for years, heck I had an old HO steam locomotive that smoked off the chuff. Granted that HO locomotive didnt have near the smoke produced. MTH can probably sue if a manufacture copyed their design, but this isnt rocket science. It can easily be done with today's current market systems that are not an MTH system. QSI and Phoenix both have functions that create chuffing with their sound cards. This is the same kind of electrical "switch". The smoking unit itself is a basic heatercore design. MTH didnt invent that either. So what the heck did they invent that allows them to get a patent on this?
 
To be honest some companies will throw out that "patented technology" buzzword to get you to buy their stuff. When the truth is there is no patent and the technology they are using is readily available to other manufacturers. 
 
I also agree with whomever said that MTH could make a killing if they marketed aftermarket stuff. But, my experience with MTH is "to heck with compatability, you want this you have to buy our system."
 
Too bad I dont have the time to work on this, I'd do it myself.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

KM-1 introduced pretty impressive smoke with their Gauge 1 locos a few years ago. 
Unfortunately they won't sell the smoke unit separately. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxy1TrXLMtY&feature=related


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

So if they wont sell it, why would you Mention it ? Just Wondering.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

For information, to show what's doable and to encourage some other manufacturer too step up to the plate and create a such unit. 

However, I just checked back about the status and the message in March was that the KM-1 smoke generator can now be purchased separately, but there are a number of others on the market as well which tend to be a lot less money. 

Some people use this smoke generator from Harbour Hobby originally developed for boats, here in a K-37 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE1Xpholv5g


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Where did you find the info on the availability of the KM-1 smoke unit?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Where did you find the info on the availability of the KM-1 smoke unit? 

That was new information on the German Buntbahn forum last month which I just picked up.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Posted By krs on 13 Apr 2011 05:15 PM 
For information, to show what's doable and to encourage some other manufacturer too step up to the plate and create a such unit. 

However, I just checked back about the status and the message in March was that the KM-1 smoke generator can now be purchased separately, but there are a number of others on the market as well which tend to be a lot less money. 

Some people use this smoke generator from Harbour Hobby originally developed for boats, here in a K-37 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE1Xpholv5g 






Thats not bad, but you dont get the chuff smoke.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You should be able to use the same technique that Axle did with the Zimo, drive the heating element and motor directly. You can do this with virtually any smoke unit. 

Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

If as has been stated that it shouldn't be a patent problem , then why on earth hasen't someone come out with a readily available and simple to install unit that can be triggered directly off the sound trigger leads. There were the TAS units that were bought out by I think Lionel and then taken off the market. I do have two new TAS units that I plan to install in Aristo 2-8-0's. I was really lucky to get them,thanks to another MLS member.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I've been looking at the Massoth units, those seem to be pretty good. It looks like availability is a problem. 

As a side note...when will manufactures get it, if you dont have the product available, then people wont buy it and thus you wont make any money. This small production mentality of manufactures is frusrating, and it isnt just in the hobby industry. I have the same problems with manufacturers of other products. You already have the production line "geared up" producing more is less of a cost then having to "gear up" each time to produce a small order. Yes, I know that you have some stock sitting on the shelf, however, if you produce enough to actually have a stock then you can control it better. But whatever, my rant isnt going to change anything...


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I looked into the Massoth units last fall at the Pomona Fairplex show. I wanted to know if their unit would work with Airwire, battery and Phoenix sound. The gentleman I talked to said yes but only with a special board that he designed to interface with the smoke unit. End result,complicated install and somewhere around $175.00. Non starter.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Patent problems?

Most G manufacturers are small companies, and defending a nonsense patent infringement suit can come close to sinking you.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm sure when I was thinking of smoke a few years ago that the MTH smoke unit was available as a spare - but backordered! 

This is an interesting page about the Lionel O gauge fan-driven smoke unit and the MTH unit: 
http://www.leetrain.com/smoke.html 

Thats not bad, but you dont get the chuff smoke 
How about a piston system, like the one Aristo fitted to one of their engines?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I ordered a MTH spare, one for a Hudson, no problem, took a few weeks, but it appeared. Ordered online, no sweat.. 

Greg


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## Dave Crocker (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul, were you asking about the Massoth interface board at the Train-Li or Massoth booth? 

Dave


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,
Massoth booth. There were a couple choices,but since I run with 14.4 batteries I would be limited to the lower voltage unit.


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## Dave Crocker (Jan 2, 2008)

Can the LGB style Hall Effect sensor be operated with discrete magnets instead of the circular LGB magnet?

Dave


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Can the LGB style Hall Effect sensor be operated with discrete magnets instead of the circular LGB magnet? 


I'm 99% sure it will work, but you could call Klaus at Massoth to confirm. You may have to experiment with the distance to get the magnetic field right. In case you're wondering, it is also possible to drill out the circular magnet shown to suit your axle--I did this for one of my locomotives and had no problem. 

Keith


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## Dave Crocker (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Keith, I'll give him a call


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