# Barry's Big Trains



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I recently got a Bachmann Annie for a really good price and I've been very impressed with it. Great detail, runs very well, pulls surprisingly well. Years ago--probably close to 15 years ago now--my son had been given a Bachmann "Big Hauler" set and I really disliked the loco--it seemed poorly made and tracked badly. But the Annie is really terrific. 

So--Barry's Big Trains. It would cost pretty close to twice what I paid for the Annie to upgrade it. But I like the loco a lot. Can I get a sense of people's experience with BBT? Is it worth it to upgrade?


----------



## Greg Stevens (Jan 3, 2008)

I have two BBT mechanisms and am about to send them back for upgrading. I am also going to send in an Annie to be converted to a 2-8-0. His work rocks as far as I am concerned.


----------



## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

I had a conversion done to a Sam's Club Annie about 3 years ago. It was the best thing I could have done to it. It still is my strongest puller. It is really nice if you like to go real slow. The movement is so smooth, no jerking or lurching. Once my track is up and running again (soon) I plan on having a 2-8-0 put into another Sam's Club special. 

Tommy 
Rio Gracie


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I have several (many) 4-6-0's. 
None of them worked well enough for revenue service. 
I started in doing my older units into 2-8-0's, and when I got an Anniversary, the weight was insufficient for our needs. 
Adding weight overloaded the motor. 
So, it is now a 2-8-0 also. 

I have three 2-8-0's, one a full "Annie", the other two ld RGS units. 
I have one (actually, my brother's) still a 4-6-0, and two SPNG 4-6-0's with special wheel spacing, one, #9 is basically complete, the other, #8, is close, and has been for about 9 years. 
One of these days I'll get it done. 

Pittman motors, double-lead worm, reduction gears, ball bearings everywhere, aluminum chassis, new axles, 8 pounds of cast lead weight, and they do pull. 

Bruce posted some photos in this thread 
http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=8731&p=1 
and if you scroll down you will see one of mine in revenue service. 

TOC


----------



## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Having been gifted several B-man "Big Haulers" over the years, I decided 
several years ago to make something out of all that junk... Decided I could 
do a scale change on one, marry a couple of the junky B-man drives and 
make a pretty nice copy of the Western Maryland consolidation #348, the 
Elkins WVa switcher for its last 40 years of service... This was before Barry 
made consolidation drives... So I did the usual scale change things, sectioned 
the cab both vertically and horizontally, sectioned the tender also, lowered 
the domes & stack a little, put on 1/29 bell & generator, made up a 2-8-0 drive 
out of a pair of the 2-6-0 drives, etc, etc... It all worked out quite well and 
looked almost identical to the protype... But I was always afraid to run it very 
much because of the fragility of those old B-man drives.... Then Barry made the 
2-8-0 drives, an I installed one in this thing about a year ago an it runs real 
good, pulls lots of cars, an I don't worry about breaking the drive... I'd 
definately recommend Barry's drives.... Heres a pic of the little dude with the 
BBT drive... 
Paul R...


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice work! 

I'm a little unclear on how it works with BBT. I'd probably want to keep the 4-6-0 configuration--do I just get a new drive mechanism and frame, put my wheels on it, and reassemble the loco? Or do you have to send your existing drive unit in to Barry?


----------



## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

In answer to your first question...YES! 

Second question...put it back in the Bachmann box, pack it well and send the whole thing to Barry. He can probably put it together 3 times faster than you and knows where everything goes. Well worth the effort! And expense.


----------



## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

You can keep all the original configuration above the waterline. 
However, you will get a new pilot truck mount on the 4-6-0 that will allow the lead truck to actually stay on the track! 
You can do all the install yourself. 
If you have colored drivers, you can send those in and Barry will re-use them on your drive. 
He cores the centers out and installs new axle inserts.


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll tell you what, I have sent two engines to Barry for his BBT upgrades. The first was a 2nd Gen. Big Hauler that had the most atrocious gear noise! It was cheap (I think my Dad picked up the Red Comet set that it came from at Costco for $27) but it was my daughter's and she wanted to run it. I sent it to Barry who installed his BBT460 unit in it. _Much_ improved! I also had him install a Sierra sound unit as I despise the "chuff" that the Big Hauler comes with! The unit is now extremely reliable and a good hauler with a decent sound! 
The second one was a "whim". I was on a "Bumblebee" kick and my eye kept straying to the Bachmann Annie version. The Annie already has near _Spectrum_ detailing and the thought of a nice engine like that with a BBT drive.....well, I ordered one and had it sent to Barry (oh yeah, there's a _little_ bit more to it than that! I had Barry then send it to Dave Goodson for RCS r/c battery and Sierra sound intallation. By the time I first saw the engine, it was a _spectacular_ runner with excellent sound and primo r/c control _without_ the need for track power!)  
Anyway, I asked Barry to make the Bumblebee Annie a 2-8-0 and together we decided to use Aristo wheels as this would lower the profile making it look more "narrow gauge." I then asked him to paint the wheels gray to give it more of the "look" of the Bumblebee paint scheme (the silver/aluminum was just a bit too much for me!) which matched the LGB Mogul paint scheme that I have. Barry was so enamoured of the design that he has made a twin of it and has used it as a demonstrator unit! 
I can't say enough about Barry's upgrades! To coin a phrase from the old Outdoor/Finescale Railroader magazines, Barry's units earn my highest recommendation. They are superb!! 

Here's a shot of the Bachmann BBT 2-8-0 Bumblebee Annie:


----------



## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

nice looking indeed


----------



## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

Mind you, he is prob still very busy making Mason stuff.....


----------



## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL...


----------



## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 04/16/2008 5:39 AM

...put it back in the Bachmann box, pack it well and send the whole thing to Barry. He can probably put it together 3 times faster than you and knows where everything goes. Well worth the effort  and expense.


All of this speaks very well for Barry's Big Trains. I have some candidates for conversion coming up once I start my Phase III operation.


----------



## jlyans (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL...

What are you LOL 'ing about Gary? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


----------



## railgeek (Jan 15, 2008)

With the release of the new Annie drive unit, add a little weight. You can pick up the "Annies" for $125.00 - $165.00. 
The price for Barry's upgrade is not worth the expsense. 
Should you want to upgrade, spend the money on an LGB Mogul, Forney, etc.


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

In your opinion! Barry made his BBT unit to repower the Big Hauler when it's gearing was crap! He has perfected it to the point where it is bullet proof! (You _won't_ strip those gears no matter how much weight is added!) Now, is it worth the $$$ to have a Big Hauler upgraded when you can junk it and buy an Annie? It all depends on what you perceive as value. Personally, I don't see a Forney as the same value as an Annie but that's just me. The Mogul is a fun engine and I have one but it is a small engine not suited to run in front of my Fn3 rolling stock whereas the Annie can! It's all in your perspective.


----------



## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

John-- 

I was LOL'ing Rod's comment about how Barry is probably busy making Mason Bogies. Ummm....yeah.


----------



## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

I've heard nothing but good things about Barry's work. I currently have two Big Haulers (2005 versions) that run adequately. My plan is to run then into the ground then upgrade them to BBT drives.


----------



## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

As usual, it is up to the individual as to what he wants. But, if you want a fairly large loco with pretty good detail and a very good runner, then approx $400 total doesn't seem bad at all. The LGB Moguls are nice engines but small and lacking a lot of detail (I have 4 of them). I do really like them, however I wanted to model the ET&WNC line and the "Annie" fit the bill. Barry's motor made it the best runner I have, and there are many modification instructions to this engine for more detail if you want to spend the time doing it. Again, I will say it is well worth the expense. I don't think there are very many Moguls for sale that are going for $400 these days either.


----------



## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I started with an Annie, but it was just too small with my 1:20 rolling stock, so I wanted to upscale it. Since I was putting a lot of work into it, I decided to go with the BBT chassis. So, now I have a great runner that's the right size. I just replaced the original pilot wheels with 22" Sierra Valley wheels.


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm really impressed with the Annie. It pulls the smallish consists I ask it to pull up a very steep grade with no difficulty, it runs smoothly at low speeds, it looks good. I'm going to run it or a while and see how it holds up and then maybe there's a BBT upgrade in the future


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have two older Bachman 10 wheelers from sets that I will upgrade before running them. It's a matter of when for me not if. Currently I'm in no hurry but I'll likely get them done sometime in the next year. (Next years tax return?) 

Was already told by our accountant who did our taxes that we should not expect much of an "stimulous incentive check" from the gov't. My wife makes too much (damn). 

Chas


----------



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 04/16/2008 10:52 AM

Here's a shot of the Bachmann BBT 2-8-0 Bumblebee Annie: 












Dang thats sweet! but is it R1 capable? thats my only caviet /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


----------



## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Bruce Chandler on 04/24/2008 6:31 AM
I started with an Annie, but it was just too small with my 1:20 rolling stock, so I wanted to upscale it. Since I was putting a lot of work into it, I decided to go with the BBT chassis. So, now I have a great runner that's the right size. I just replaced the original pilot wheels with 22" Sierra Valley wheels. 














Bruce - The lower photo clearly shows the center driver wheels are completely off the rails; being either sized or positioned so as not to touch them. I understand the flangeless design reasons, but this seems to make the center axle *completely* non-functional. Are my eyes deceiving me - or does the rail in the photo dip down at that particular point? 

Al


----------



## Guest (Apr 27, 2008)

i have to aggree the center driver in the 2 photo appears to not be touching the rail?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif 
Nick


----------



## Schlosser (Jan 2, 2008)

The Annie, as delivered from Bachmann, is essentially a 4-4-0; the center drivers are flangeless and of a smaller diameter, just along for the ride and the 'looks'. 

I bought my first Annie about 2 years ago and had often wondered why it seemed to be a poor puller(compared to my Moguls) until I discovered the two center drivers were non-functional; it's logical, though, as being flangeless and smaller, they can handle R1 curves and cause fewer problems on switches. 

Art


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Does the BBT Annie drive handle R1 curves? I have one or two in my train shed where the Bachmann Annie parks. Also does the BBT "annie" utilize the center wheel for drive, or just for looks?


----------



## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I hadn't noticed that before. It's a pretty level piece of track, so it must be the R1 requirement.


----------



## woowoo (May 4, 2008)

Well, I've joined the club of owners of blown up Annies. Mine stripped the roller at the Convention 
open house last April. Tried to contact the Bachman service people....no reponse. Does anyone 
know of a source for those little roller/straight gears. Barry's is not an option. 
Thanks, Ralph.


----------



## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

"Barry's is not an option" 

So... why did you put it in an ancient Barry thread?


----------



## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Gentlemen,

I find this all very interesting. And there are a few things I would like to mention.

I've been doing these conversion for 15 or 16 years. The first drives are not in the same ball park with either of the current drives. There are two, a PLUS and the ANNIE version. The Annie version has an equalized front axle, thanks to the hinged siderod. This statement is true for the 4-6-0 as well as the 2-8-0. The Plus version has a rigid front axle. Both drives share the same gearing setup. I have called it a countershaft drive. The gear ration is 29.9 to 1. The gear duration is the best I have ever had.

The loadbearing/flanged drivers are mounted in ballbearings, the countershaft is in ball bearings. The Pittman Motor is a ball bearing model. Todays drives are as good as I have ever built, actually much better.

Steve, the smaller wheels are not Aristocraft, they are wheels I have designed and have made. The last steps in their assembly are done here in my shop. Unlike Ariistocraft wheels, mine are stainless steel tireed with cast brass centers, with delrin insulators.

All of the hardware is stainless steel, because we operate outside in all kinds of weather.


Every drive ever produced has a "Lube Port" in it's bottom, to make the lube job a little easier. At least to allow some inspection. Recently I recieved a custom 7/8N2 drive I had built several years ago.........no lube port. I forgotten that these had been produced without the lube port, so the opening statement in this paragraph isn't quite true. By the way, I contributed the lube ports to Bachmann. It is better to share an idea which will improve the hobby for everyone.


That 7/8N2 model was returned under warranty. You pay the shipping in, I make the necessary changes/upgrades and I pay the shipping back to you. If you want an improvement which has come available since your unit was made, there may be a charge for that. As a policy, I warrant the unit not the owner, I don't need a receipt, the drive is proof enough. This is a lifetime deal, it's not worth as much as it once was, I am getting older.

R1 curves, the 4-6-0 will take the curves as well as a stock Bachmann, the 2-8-0 can take the R1s, but slowly....it does have a long wheelbase. 

When I first developed the 2-8-0 for the Big Hauler, my customer wrote and called asking me to make sure the blind drivers touched the track. So I did. I completed the drives, sent them out and started getting complaints, of the drive de-railing. In some cases it always de-railed in the same place. One instance was the top of a rise where there was also a track joiner, pointed no less. As the drive came to the top of the rise the front wheels were looking for a place to go. I contacted the customers I had shipped to and asked them to send them back and I would reduce the size of the blind drivers, which I did. Those were Palacina wheels, I'm glad it didn't happen with the SS drivers. 



I have used the Bachmann chuff switch since the beginning, but the introduction of the equalized front axle meant I had lost the fron axle for the drum. So I now mount a reed switch crosswise in the chassis which is triggered by small rare earth magnets in the blind driver, works beautifully. 


And I am quick, the latest improvement is the equalized pilot truck, as TOC pointed out it doesn't need weight to stay on the track. I have been looking for that solution for 15 years and it coincided with ideas being swapped here on MLS a couple of years ago. In my case I was trying to perfect the equalized front axle and transferred the idea to the pilot.

One thing I did tell prospective customers with brand new Bachmann Big Haulers, Pluses or Annies is to run the wheels off of it, get as much value as you can from your investment, then come and see me. 



All in all the best part of this endeavor has been my customers. Every business has it bad pills, but here none are so bad as to make day bad. Most are nice people who I am able to help and make the frustrations of the hobby more tolerable. 


Thank you for your feedback.

Barry - BBT


----------



## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Ralph, 

If you can be a bit more definitive about which gear, I probably have what you want. Yours no charge. 

Barry - BBT


----------



## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By astrayelmgod on 12/22/2008 8:30 PM
"Barry's is not an option" 

So... why did you put it in an ancient Barry thread?


Maybe this was a misunderstanding of when/where to start a fresh thread/plea for assistance.
I'll see if I can assuage your offended sensibilities...

Barry,
Might Ralph contact you directly?
I can climb over the fence and take photos of the offending drive component for your evaluation...
While he ands I are equally enamored with your creation, the finances are somewhat scrunched for both of us, now that we are exploring alternative power sources...
(shhhh. don't tell anybody that the SDRR is dumping rail fed power...)


----------



## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Duncan,

You are in Gilbert and I am in west Phoenix. Is Ralph here too? Take the picture send it to me:

[email protected] and/or 623-936-6088


Barry - BBT


----------



## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By BarrysBigTrains on 12/22/2008 8:51 PM
Duncan,

You are in Gilbert and I am in west Phoenix. Is Ralph here too? Take the picture send it to me:

[email protected] and/or 623-936-6088


Barry - BBT 




Barry,
Ralph is the guy who lives over the fence from me, who has been my A-1 gandy dancer for trhe last 6 years...
You've met him a time or two, I believe...


----------



## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Barry - I apologize for the apparent ignorance but after reading your replies today...I am still uncertain if you answered or addressed my original concern about the center axle of the 4-6-0 not touching the rails in your upgrade replacement motor/driver package for the Annie. Admittedly I don't understand some of the technical jargon, like what "equalized front axle" means.


----------



## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Al,

The Big Hauler is a rigid frame design. The four flanged drivers are in contact with the rails. The blind driver cannot touch the rails lest there be a de-railment.

If the axles were all suspended then the blinds could touch the rails or even exert some pressure, the Bachmann Consolidation is a very good example of independently sprung axles. In the problem scenario the blinds could compress over the "peaked rail" allowing the front flanged driver to stay in contact with the rail and avoid de railing.


My design is a railroad term which is to "equalize" the load. In most Locos, this equalization is from axle to axle, rather than a single axle. In my design it is not a sprung axle but a means to allow the front axle to pivot on an axis in order to allow the four flanged drivers to always be in contact with the rail, which means better pick up if you are track powered, or to transmit more motive power to the rails because all four drivers are exerting force with fairly equal weight per axle.


Examining the pilot truck frame is a better example of equalization. The two side frames are not held rigidly, but are merely located to maintain wheel base and tracking. The wheelbase doesn't change nor does the wheel track width, but the axles/wheels are free to follow the undulating track we run on. 


Barry - BBT


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Duncan on 12/22/2008 8:41 PM

(shhhh. don't tell anybody that the SDRR is dumping rail fed power...)



I wouldn't tell a soul..... YOU'RE DOING WHAT????????


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 12/23/2008 7:00 AM
Posted By Duncan on 12/22/2008 8:41 PM

(shhhh. don't tell anybody that the SDRR is dumping rail fed power...)



I wouldn't tell a soul..... YOU'RE DOING WHAT???????? 

EXTRA EXTRA READ ALL ABOUT IT.....SDRR DUMPS TRACK POWER. EXTRA EXTRA. GET YOUR PAPER HERE.


----------



## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Am leaving this morning to fly to Chicago, to have Christmas with my brother and his family.

I'm scheduled to return 12/26 evening.

Barry - BBT


----------



## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Ralph,

Post number 1, alright. 

I've blowed up (stripped gears) on two Annies myself. Had them both replaced with Barry's drives. One's a 4-6-0 and the other is a 2-8-0. Both run great and no matter how many cars the kids have added on to the train, no more stripped gears (just wheel slippage).

Duncan - You mean there is something out there besides track power?









Merry Christmas to youse Arizona guys - Barry, Duncan, JJ, Stan and Ralph.

Tommy








Rio Gracie


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*Duncan's dumping track power!!*

*Duncan's dumping track power!!*

*Neener neener neeeeee-ner!!!*


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Does he have a "permit" to do this "dumping"? 

Where is he dumping it? 

Has he filed the proper environmental impact statements? 

Has the EPA approved it? 

This just may get quashed before he gets started!


----------



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)




----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like he is going from bad to worse. Later RJD


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Duncan 

If you need a place to dump all that track power, send it over here to Florida. After the next huricane comes through, I'll most likely need some extra power.


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 12/23/2008 4:06 PM
Sounds like he is going from bad to worse. Later RJD


hehehe...


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I was gifted this drive. He said it was a Barry's Drive, but never saw one with this belt setup. He put the Pacific wheels on it later. Any ideas about this?


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

hmmm. I doubt that is a BBT drive, doesn't look like one at all.
Barry is retired, but is still around on-line..He put his contact info in this thread:

http://forums.mylargescale.com/11-public-forum/22484-barry-s-big-trains-has-shut-its-doors-2.html

You could see if that email address still works, and send him a note about it.

Scot


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jerry... I talk with Barry now and then as he's in Phoenix. He's still "puttering" around but not as active as he used to be... 

I've never seen that configuration before. As Scotty said, I doubt that's a Barry's Drive unless it's a very early one.. 

However, the channel frame material looks like the same type material he uses. Certainly don't recognize the side rods.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I have Barry's Drive in my Connie and that pic is not a Barry's Drive. Barry's has the motor mounted in a vertical position above the gears in the block. No belt drive.


----------



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Jerry,

It's not one of Barry's drive... I have a two of these drives, one three and one with four axles, mine have larger motors, Barry new of the drive. I'll try and find said info.

Axels are worm and spur driven right Jerry?

Michael


----------



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Jerry

Your drive is a Custom Craft, I don't have any other info. Barry knew of the drive and gentleman behind it.

What are you gonna build with it?

Michael


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Michael, need to hook up a battery and see how it does. Bob Thom(he sent it to me) said he put the Pacific wheels on it. I just worry about using it and that belt then breaking, no telling how old it is and who knows where to get one?


----------



## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Belt?
Go to Stock Drive Parts huge selection of small gears and pulleys and belts


----------

