# 1:20.3afying a steam shovel (many pics)



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Okay so it's not a steam shovel but it's close. It's the 1:25 scale Bantam gas shovel that Spec Cast released a few years back. I love cable driven shovels so I bought one. For some reason my creative synapses didn't fire for the first year I had the thing but then I saw an article in Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette about modifying the shovel into something better for 1:20.3 scale. I really liked the overall idea, but the gentleman who wrote the article did some things differently than I would have, such as using styrene for his mods, whereas I prefer to use actual wood and metal whenever possible. So I thought I would respectfully steal his idea but do things a little differently.

The first items that had to change were the color and the modern style cab. The Bantam shovels and cranes apparently were a bright pumpkinn orange color I wanted something a bit more muted for my model so i chose dark gray.










Here the shovel sits atop the lazy suzan that I painted it on. In front of it are some of the parts that were removed for painting such as the control custer, counterweight, various transmission covers, etc.










The old seat (top) will be replaced with the nice cast brass tractor seat. The brass will be blackened.










For a bit of cotrast I painted the six cylinder gas engine green. It took a couple hours because I had to go back and touch up all the ignition wires, belts and hoses.










Front view of the engine. I also painted one of the battery terminals red. The primary transmission guard is in the foreground.










The secondary transmission gears were painted a color called cast coat iron. These gears actually mesh and rotate when the winches operate.










The new cab is framed out in mahogany boards that were cut to scale on my table saw.










Here you can see the size comparison of the new cab on the shovel and the cab on the dragline, which is stock, except for the weathering.









I did cut enough parts to make the same modifications to the dragline.


I have even more progress to show I cut siding for the new cab and I installed roofing which is made from real corrugated steel. Those photos will come soon! Thanks for looking. Comments welcome.


Regards,


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Great job, I can't wait to see the rest!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

very cool. I want one! lol .....But all that seems to be available now is 1:50


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Very nice! I wish there was more 1/24th scale stuff like that available.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric,
That's my kind of project! 
Looking great, bring on the rest of the pictures.
That big new cab would look really great with a boiler and a couple
of cylinders in there








Later
Rick Marty


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## trainbuffjr (Jan 11, 2008)

That looks great Eric! I may have to get one of those shovels and try my hand at making one. Keep us posted as the construction continues. 

Aaron 
Loyet Logging Company


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Eric,

Very, very nice-looking machine. Thanks for taking time to post the pixes. I too want one of those--as Rick Marty said--with a boiler, etc. You've done an inspiring job.

Les


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback-- always appreciated.  cylinders and a boiler are a cool idea.  Indeed this would be an ideal platform for those wishing to make a static model of a steam shovel.  I have a couple "secret" negotiations and parts gathering going on right now that pertain to steam shovels, and all I will say is this; any steam machine in my collection for the foreseeable future will strictly be powered by actual live steam only. Call it a self imposed rule.  Currently I have no such rule for gassers and dismals-- so back to the gas shovel!   

There has been some progress and things are shaping up on the shovel so lets get down to business. 

Before I made any further progress I headed over to the market and picked up a can of corn-- that's right, a can of corn.  I needed it to finish the project.









 
If you cant figure it out the corn was used to make the roof-- well the CAN at least, the corn is now on the dinner table.   Here you can also see the siding I cut for the new cab.  It is made from 1/16" basswood with 1/8" scribes.  I stained it to match the mahogany.  The stain is dilute artist acrylic paint.  I stained both sides to minimize warping, let it dry for twenty minutes then sandwiched the pieces between layers of newspaper and placed two of my heaviest books on top overnight to make sure they were flat.








 
Here is the inside view of the cab roof.  The mahogany sure is purdy.  The corrugated steel from the can is attached to the frame by the small 0-80 through bolts.


With the siding installed it was time for paint and blackening the metal parts.








 
Fresh from the paint shop!  I still have several parts to install and lots of detailing and weathering but there is really a sense of where I am headed with the build now.  The shovel has much more of the look of a early gas model now.  And looks totally appropriate withe a 20.3 figure.








 
I think this guys is thinking: "where am I going to sit while running that thing?"


All I have to say is; have patience my tiny plastic friend.


Regards,


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Sumptin is missin! Minor detail on a model (I didn't even notice the first 5 or 6 times I looked at the pics), kind of important detail on a real one... There's nothing connected to the intake manifold! no downpipe with the throttle butterfly, no carburetor, no governor on that hump on the timing cover, no fuel tank either. Kind of odd that they included plug wires but forgot that stuff. 

Maybe the scrappies got it while it was sitting unguarded?


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Very nice piece of work. The corn can worked out great. I wish I knew how to save this thread, so many good pointers here. I want to build a ditcher as soon as I can get started with anything. Thanks again for the pixes.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

MiK,

C'mon, dude. Ya gotta use a little imaginashon! Rivet countin (or carb 'n whatnot) ain't cool. That's a diesel with a foot throttle. Them're fuel injecter hoses, and the fuel tank is out of th' picther on account of the angel of the camera. I know th' man said it was 'gazoline'. But hey, he mighta meant to say 'diezel' and coud'nt spell it, (not ever body cn rite 'n spel gude like me) and so he rote down 'gazoline' by misteak. That's a easy misteak to make.










Les


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that's just plain cool!!! I would have never thought of using can material for the roof. Brilliant. 
Dave


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the comments folks. Dave, I can't take credit for the can material idea. I actually got that idea from someone on the Seven Eights Lounge who used it for a euro style boxcar roof. It works good for things like shovel or steam tractor roofs because in the USA they were mostly corrugated steel that was also curved. Mik, the butterflies have all migrated south for winter, the governor was kicked out of office, and the shovel is on a no-carb diet. ;-) as for the fuel tank it was always in the cards and it will be making it's appearance approximately now-ish. Essentially I am pretty satisfied with the detail on the little engine that will spend it's life tucked away in the shadowy recesses of the shovel cab-- especially given the fact that the entire engine is only 1.5" long. 

On to the progress photos.










Some various new metal parts: counterweight on the left, Rear floor extension in the center, new floor plates in the back and exhaust pipe, tractor seat, bucket release pulley on the right.









A close up of some of the new brass bits. My pal Henner machined the little pulley for me. the little doughnut shaped thing is a standoff for the base of the tractor seat. The exhaust pipe is a brass tube that I bent and cut. All parts were chemically blackened.









Henner also made this cool little bucket release handle for me.









Here you can see the new floor plates and the rear floor extension installed. The plates are steel which allows me to magnetically attach figures and clutter like tool boxes and gas cans.









Here is the new fuel tank installed on the rear floor extension. I rifled through my scrap bin and found two plastic headlights from an old MDC Big Hustler body. I glued them together and added a gas cap and fuel line.









Another view of the floor extension. It is bolted on with 1-72 screws. I'm thinking I need some sort of screen or guard on that radiator.









Here you can see the tractor seat installed and also how the new floor plates not only cover the screw holes that were for the original cab but they widen the floor to match the width of the new wood cab frame. All of this fits snugly inside the new wooden bodywork.




A few notes and observations about the project so far: 


Painting the chassis assembly was a bit of a pain because there are so many nooks and crannies on this thing that I kept finding orange paint shining through in little spots here and there. Next time I will brush paint into the crevices and spray the rest. I typically avoid brush painting because I hate brush strokes in the paint on a good model.



I am always an advocate of bolting things together with scale hardware. It has been really nice to be able to take the cab on and off in various stages of the project. It is easily done by removing four 1-72 hex screws. Regards,


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric, I wasn't trying to bust your chops over it. Like I said, I didn't even notice at first. If I had a spare updraft carb here, I'd send it to you for free.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

That is fantastic.

I have a similar crane (excavator), but have always wanted to paint it yellow like the one in the linked photo below:

Crane Train

How hard was it to disassemble the crane? Was it riveted or screwed together?

Also what brand/type of paint did you use? Spray paints? Airbrushed? 

And I hear you about finding orange paint in the nooks. That's what has been keeping me from painting mine, well that it's a pretty nice looking model with all of the logos and such factory applied.


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Wow, that is a great looking model! Beautiful!


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

Dang, Eric. I kept waiting for an Ozark donkey engine boiler to appear where that gas-burner sits. Oh, well, it's still a terrific model!


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Not a problem Mik.  To be honest I wouldn't know where to install an updraft carb if I had one-- I think the last time I saw a carburetor was on my 1987 Mazda pickup, and even then I probably had no idea what I was looking at.  I suspect you know your way around IC engines better than me. 
Thanks Vance, like I said, for me steamers have got to be real or nothing. ;-) 


Matt, removing the old cab is not that difficult.  I think there are two (or three?) screws on the underbelly that can be accessed by rotating the crawler base out of the way.  Carefully remove the body.  I snapped a small part that one of the ropes attaches to, so I emphasize taking it easy while removing the body.  In the end it is a pretty easy task though.  I wanted to remove the cluster of levers and it is attached with rivets so they needed to be drilled out.


OK so lets get back to business.  I had thought about having Stan make me some decals but last night I found several of my old sheets of dry transfers and I thought "what the heck, I'll take a stab at lettering it with those."


The results are pretty good.  I discovered when the job was almost done that a ballpoint pen makes the best burnishing tool for rubbing em down, but if anybody has any tips pertaining to dry transfers I would love to hear them because the job was not easy.









 
In my research of Marion and Erie shovels they usually were lettered with both the manufacturer name and the company that owned the shovel.  Since I heavily modified the look of the shovel I thought I would fictionalize the manufacturer name as well.








 
On the left side of this image you can see the bucket release chain hanging from the new little pulley. 








 
A look at the operators seat. 


And now some overall views.  I guess you could call these builders photos because it wont look this new for long-- the next step is weathering.








 









 








 








 


Thanks for looking.



Regards,


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Eric - where did you obtain the small nuts and bolts? Over here we CAN get BA n&b, right down to 14BA, but the price is horrendous - hence my use of Ozard products where there won't be any dismantling again. 

BTW - what a great project this is, and with such excellent images to show how you did it - congrats are in order. 

Best 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

These are Stromberg carbs on a Stutz and a Paige. Not the easiest to make, but the most visually interesting (weird shapes and shiney brass). Moot point since yours is hidden, but I thought I'd show it in case somebody else (like me) eventually decides to build one... just to save time searching

http://cll.hemmings.com/story_image/100428-500-0.jpg
http://cll.hemmings.com/story_image/42010-500-0.jpg


This is a Zenith... easier to build, more prevalent in the real world, but less fun to look at
http://www.foleyengines.com/Images/UserDir/zenith_carburetor.jpg

I sometimes forget that I'm (un)luckier than most, my grandfather was a Case tractor dealer for 30+ years, a charter member of the local antique farm machinery club -- and complete mechanical whiz. My father is a master mechanic.... So I've been around this old junk all my life.


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Tac, if you don't mind using U.S. threads then the best place I have found is microfasteners.com. They have a nice range of sizes and reasonable prices. I keep a personal stock of brass hex screws, washers and scale nuts at all times just so I have them when I need them for projects. Since you would be using U.S. threads which I suspect are not that common in th UK, you might want to order a couple taps for the sizes you would be using. I use mostly 0-80 and 1-72 for gauge 1 stuff. They do stock some metric stuff but it is not scale hardware. For shipping internationally they charge actual shipping charges with a $7 minimum. Shipping shouldn't cost too much even if you order a whole bunch because you can fit 500 screws in a small envelope.

Mik thanks for the carb reference. It would be cool to make one of those in real brass.

Regards,


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Very cool transformation. I may have to keep my eyes open for something like that to do a model of the EBT's steam shovel. I'm generally not much into MOW equipment--mostly because I don't have the sidings to store it--but given the right toy at the right price, some serious fun could be had. 

Later, 

K


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Matt, about the paints, I used Duplicolor "gray hot rod primer" which is very close in color to Floquil grimy black. I bought it at the local auto parts store. It comes in a spray can. I warm the cans in a bowl of hot water before use to make a finer spray mist. I recommend Duplicolor and Krylon paints-- I am not a big fan of Rustolium which I find takes a very long time to dry. I also unspooled all the rope off the winches and covered the rope with masking tape to avoid getting paint on it. This also allowed me to paint the winch drums.

Regards,


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

"very cool. I want one! lol .....But all that seems to be available now is 1:50" 

Now there's one less ! 

Andrew


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

I keep eyeing the green boom on the AF steam shovel. Dunno why, but it seems a attractive possiblity. The one with the hump about a third of the way out from the cab.


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## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

I like that........ Lots


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Finished pic:









Thanks for the compliments folks. Be sure to check out the all the complete photos of the finished product by  clicking here.  Andrew, you got one! Awesome! Are you going to bash it? If you do it, post pics. Les, what is an "AF steam shovel"? It sounds intriguing.


Thanks again for looking and commenting.


 Regards,


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Wonderful job Eric! I have one of those shovels and my only gripe was it looked too modern. I was wondering what to do with it. Your comprehensive coverage of your conversion will help me greatly in bashing my model. Thanks for posting.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautifully done, Eric! Thanks for taking the time to share it with us. I'm sure it will spawn many projects. 

Matt


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Oops! My bust. AF = American Flyer. Ebay is lousy with 'em--on occasion. S scale. Not cheap by my standards, but affordable if you wanted one badly enough. (I'm getting there, though I chide myself that scratchbuilding one would be cheap and easy.)

In the way of explanation, WARNING, BORING EXPLANATION AFTER THIS POINT! I've been planning and learning for about two years, and what I learned is, I want it all. Well, that can't be, so I settled on--with considerable patient help from members of this board, on three gauges, all in F (20.3) scale. The smallest, the 'tram', will be S gauge. This will work the mine and just possibly be a focus since I'm confined to an indoor environment. It has replaced 45mm ga in my mind to a great degree for obvious reasons. My reasoning is, an S 'scale' (it isn't) boom would look nice on an F scale tramcar, to be utilized here 'n there.

Les


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Eric you have made me spend money. 

I received a shovel and a crane with attachments in oz today. 
Thanks for the post and I do dig the green, woodgrain finish and signage you did. 

For those interested in my best shopping effort: 
Ridge road: Shovel $91 
Die Cast Direct: Crane $96 
The crane has magnetic, scrap grapple and logging grapple attachments.


There is also a dragline and a backhoe.
Ridge Road: $91

This model gets a birthday by taking the cab off !
Half of the model's detail is hidden beneath.

BTW, The middle screw that you cant get at underneith at the back does what you want with the cab. 
This is a tangling nightmare, dont let your mates touch it ! 

Andrew


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Andrew, glad you got your shovel and crane. Sorry I cost you money ;-) I guess that's my version of a "stimulus package"! It's nice to hear your report on removing the stock cab. I took the cab off of mine so long ago that I forgot what was involved. Now I recall using a Dremel to grind a notch in the underside of the counterweight to access that screw in the back. It worked very well and I was then able to remove the cab. You are right about it being a spiderweb of strings. All those cables that look so nice going every which way over all those pullies can get tangled if you arent careful-- and as I recall it took ten minutes to untangle it after unpackaging it too.


It's also good to see that there is still a dealer that has the 1:25 ones in stock. I would encourage anybody who wants one to get it now because this was a limited run item. Keep us posted on any mods you make to it. I have the dragline crane and I have been thinking of bashing it into a log loader. I'm not sure yet though. I like the crane with salvage accessories too. I may wind up getting one of those.

Oh and Les, I am interested in your idea of using "S" gauge in F scale. If my calculations are correct that would scale to 18" gauge, which was a widely used industrial and mining gauge. That would make you an Fn18 modeler. I took a peek at the AF crane with green boom. I think it would actually work for an Fn18 burro type crane or derrick. It has clunky looking details wich make it seem like it "wants" to be a bigger scale. You probably didn't know but I also model in Fn2 (24" gauge in F scale) for a mine on my layout. I can post some pictures of that if you like.


Regards,


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Eric M. on 04/03/2009 11:21 AM

Oh and Les, I am interested in your idea of using "S" gauge in F scale. If my calculations are correct that would scale to 18" gauge, which was a widely used industrial and mining gauge. That would make you an Fn18 modeler. I took a peek at the AF crane with green boom. I think it would actually work for an Fn18 burro type crane or derrick. It has clunky looking details wich make it seem like it "wants" to be a bigger scale. You probably didn't know but I also model in Fn2 (24" gauge in F scale) for a mine on my layout. I can post some pictures of that if you like.


Regards, 












Eric,

Yes, I'd like to see the mine pixes if you don't 'mine' posting 'em. 

I am not yet, strictly speaking, 'modelling Fn18'. Or anything else. Yet. I got the lumber for the first section of my trainboard last week and a load of firewood the next day, which they dumped in my front yard. So I've been pouring my diminished energies into gettting the wood cut, split and stacked in the back yard before the housing gestapos come visit me again.

The guys on the board here listened patiently while I figured out what was going on. My irreducible wants are a mine and a logging outfit (sawmill, etc); a section at least of dual gauge trackage (hence the O gauge for the logging outfit) and the 'little' 18" gauge for the mine. Well, two years plus later, and actually beginning to assemble the beginnings of a bench, I am wondering if F was a good choice. I did it because at my age things are hard to see. But, viewing the relative sizes now that I have something solid to compare them to, and also becoming more aware of the nice-looking, solid-quality offerings of HLW, I find myself wondering if 1:24 scale wouldn't be better. As noted with the crane, that scale is far easier to find 'accessories' for than F. But it was the old hands here who suggested the O and S gauges to fit my wants. I figured to use the 18" ga in the enginehouse, smithy, and engine yard as well as the mine.

In the mine 'scene' (area, call it whatever) I am thinking along the lines of a 3 adit setup, with an 18" rail to service the interiors and hence to the tipples. (I need more info on mines.) I discovered the pneumatic Porters and thought, "That's it! I'll have a mini-layout in 18". I am doing ca 1875 because I like the little teakettles above the large engines, and my layout is perforce indoors.


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

You can unscrew the rear counterweight by turning the tracks 90 degrees and put a small or long screwdriver between the tracks and body. 
No need to butcher ! 

The crane is much the same as the dragline only rigged slightly different. 
It may be a better option to go for the dragline and fabricate the logging grapple and have best of both worlds.
A simpler logging grapple which would be more suitable for fat logs could be fabricated like the one in the background below. 










Inspirational link: 
http://www.mountainblueminiatures.com/pages/photos.htm

Heres the real steam version in action - Huff 'n' Puff where's Mr Squiggle.



Steam Shovel jamboree



Oh, there was a beautiful commercial brass model which I think was in F scale of a steam shovel/dragline.
I can't seem to locate it on the web, does anyone know what and where it is ?

Andrew


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Para,

Your link didn't come through. I'd be interested in seeing what you have to post.

Also, could someone post a pic of what these cranes look like, out-of-the-box, so to speak?


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Les, 

You caught me halfway through the dishes so to speak. 
Was still looking for the missing link. 
Post complete now. 
































The logging grapple could only pick up a scale 20" log if modelling in 1:20.3

Andrew


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Andrew,

Many thanks for the link, pixes and video. I knew the Marion had a 'crammer' steam engine, or a steam engine on the 'crammer', have it as you will, but _nowhere_ can I find details of that particular part. I've decided it has to run the boom in and out on a rack gear(s) and that's about it, so it was a real thrill to see the vid of it actually doing its trick.

Those red cranes are costing ~$90? Well, it'd save a whole bunch of construction time.

Really appreciate the pixes and links.

Les


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Andrew, thanks for the pics and videos.  I guess it good for folks to see what i started out with.  I think I tried the to unscrew it the way you described but I didn't have a screwdriver that was long and skinny enough, or something like that.  Like I said, it was a long time ago.  I suspect the F scale shovel that you are thinking of is the Car Works Ditcher.  It's a nice model but it's a steam powered prototype, and as I mentioned, I don't do fake steam engines.


  Here is a link 
to a posting about a beautifully weathered one.   Jim Hadden is making a small batch of five LIVE STEAM ditchers that are the same design as the car works one.  They are all pre sold, and if you have to ask, you can't afford one. 

 Regards,


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Eric, 

Your excellent work has been stimulus for many ideas with the model line you started with. 
Thanks for the great pics. 

Andrew


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## dana (Jan 7, 2008)

NEAT VIDEO OF THE TWO SHOVELS , PEOPLE WALKING IN & OUT NOT A CARE AMONGST THE ORGINIZERS, I GUESS CAUSES THE SHOVELS ARE MOSTLY STATIONARY , ALSO REMINDS ME OF A BILL PEET BOOK OR TWO (RED CABOOSE AND ELSIE ELEPHANT I THINK ) .


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