# Different Couplers options



## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

HI all

I am in the process of getting started in G scale and just about to finish the track. after a lot of research and help from this forum members i recently ordered a DCC system along with my first locomotive. now as i was about to order rolling stock, i realized that the couplers in catalogs dont seem to be same. i have been reading about it since last evening and i still have some questions for which i could not find a answer.
also since i am starting from scratch, it might be a good idea to just follow a certain style, so please provide tips which i need to consider.
i intent to run LGB, USA trains and MTH gauge 1. Aristo is out because of them closing. (in the catalog USAT did say that there Knucklers are compatible with Kadee)


1. Does USA train supply both the knuckle and hook and loop with their rolling stock? looking in the catalog, some have knuckle ones and some with hook and loop. i am not sure if they come with both or i have to be careful in ordering a car by looking at the coupler type. also the hudson i ordered, i am not sure what it will come with
2. will the MTH gauge 1 dash 8 coupler work with LGB/USAT 


i looked at Kadee couplers and read on the idea of converting everything to them. but at this point it seems a little hassle and also the cost of getting these converted. since i am starting from scratch just wondering if there is a better option. 

Thanks
Harsh


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Save your self a lot of problems and change everything over to K/D's. I used 831's on everything for truck mount. They work on cars and engines. 
Last couple of years I been body mounting everything. 

Don


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Most USAT rolling stock will come with both knuckle couplers and hook & loop couplers. Their Modern Tank Cars will have knuckle couplers only.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Now is the time to change over to Kadees. Wait until you have a lot of rolling stock and you'll have to put out a large sum all at one time to change over.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Harsh, the LGB and USAt cars and engines are 1:29 if you are getting standard gauge cars. The MTH is 1:32. For a 40' box car the MTH will be about 10% smaller. I have found that the 30' narrow gauge cars made by LGB and USAt (1:22.5/24) are about the same size (length) as an MTH 40' car. The NG cars are a little wider. Some are concerned about Thai scale difference and some aren't. It is all what looks good to you and what you like. 

I use Kadee #831 on my LGB cars and #830 on the USAt. I don't like doing surgery on LGB cars. If you use body mounted couplers on the LGB you have to do some cutting and shimming. The USAt 1:29 "ultimate series" cars has a mounting pad for Kadee 830s.

The gauge 1 couplers on MTH will mate with the Kadee "G" couplers.

I use a USAt box car as a battery car behind my Aristo Mallet (1:29). This car is an older version USA car. It is built on a 1:22.5/24 frame. It is 14.5" long, 4" wide, and 4" tall. A 1:29 40' box car is 17" long, 4" wide, and 4 7/8" tall. The height on both cars is measure to the top of the side not the peak of the roof. This is on the car body, including wheels and underframe.

Chuck 

Here is the mallet with the "short" USA 1:24 30' box car (not ultimate series). This car scales out to a 40' car in 1:32.










Here are some pictures comparing a USAt ultimate box car 40' (1:29) blue, with a USAt 30' (1:24) brown (or very close to 40' 1:32).


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## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

If you will be mostly coupling LGB to LGB, and USA to USA, etc. then initially you only have to worry about where the brands meet. You could run several LGB cars, have a "conversion" LGB car that had a coupler on ONE end that was compatible with what one of the USA cars had on ONE end, then run a string of USA cars. It's still worth considering to gradually convert everything to Kadees. And since lots of people use Kadees, when you get everything converted over you would be able to mix and match your cars with most things from someone else. 

the other Rodney


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I mix LGB and USAt all the time. I don't have any trouble with the cars and the two types of Kadees. The only problem I have is when I have a very long engine such as, USAt SD40-2, SD70MAC, or GG1. I have to use body mounts on the first car. The engines will pull the truck mounted 831s of the track. No problem with shorter engines. I am using 10' diameter (Aristo curves).


Chuck


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Posted By chuck n on 26 Jan 2014 11:59 AM 


I use Kadee #831 on my LGB cars and #830 on the USAt. I don't like doing surgery on LGB cars. If you use body mounted couplers on the LGB you have to do some cutting and shimming. The USAt 1:29 "ultimate series" cars has a mounting pad for Kadee 830s.

so does that mean if i get 830 and 831 and change them wherever needed on LGB , USAT. then i will be able to mix and match these two and MTH. i hope its not that difficult to change as i am not very patient with such precision jobs. also i saw that LGB sells their own knuckle couplers. are these better or worse than Kadee and does they mate well? 

thanks harsh


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

There is no reason to change them. They will work with each other. They are at the same height. I have no idea as to whether the height will match with MTH, as I don't have any MTH cars. If the height is OK they will mate. Chuck Ps. The LGB knuckle couplers cost more, aren't prototypical, and in my opinion are ugly. Kadees are the couplers of choice.


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Chuck, What i meant was that if i change all the LGB to 831 and USAT (where supplied with only loop and hook) with 830, i do not need to worry about anything else, is that a correct assumption? (assuming MTH with couple)

also thanks for clarifying that don't even consider LGB knuckles.

one more question, is it easy to change LGB to 831, i mean i am no expert and not very good with precision jobs so can a person like me change it or is it better to find someone skilled to change it?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you are talking about the USAt ultimate series cars you are fine with the body mounted 830. If you are talking about the USAt 1:24 cars you might be better with the truck mounted 831s. It depends on which LGB And USA cars you are talking about. I assumed that because you were talking about MTH your choices were LGB and USA t cars in 1:29 scale. If I am wrong let me know. Chuck


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

yes you are right Chuck. i was talking of 1:29. though i do not have a single rolling stock as of now but i have to order some soon.

also any comments about skill level required to do this modification.

thanks
Harsh


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Skill comes with time and patience. The 830 requires a small Phillips screw driver and the 831 the same screw driver and a knipper or saw of some kind to cut the button off the tip of the coupler tongue. We have all been there. This is a good place to start developing your skill set. Sit back, relax and go for it. 


Chuck

PS, Find a local "G" scale group or an individual or two. Work with them. They can be much more helpful than we can. One on One is best. We can give general guidance, but detailed specifics to your situation is best handled locally. Thirty years ago when I started I was on my own, but I soon found the Denver Garden Railway Society and they helped a lot. Nothing is easy at first. Start with the couplers, Kadee instructions are excellent.


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks Chuck. yes i am looking for such a group. one of the issues has been that in bay area, there are hardly any such clubs but eventually i will find one.

So i have locked on with Kadee now and will be converting to those. one more question, the pictures you posted betwen 1:29 and 1:32 models are very helpful. possibly i will not go with 1:32. now are the 1:22 ratio of LGB about 20% bigger than USAT? it didnt seem like that though but may be. do you have a size comparison picture of LGB rolling stock with USAT. if so can you please post it as well. Thanks

Harsh


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The brown B&O car in the pictures is the same size as LGB narrow gauge freight cars. They are 30' long in real life, the scale for them is 1:24. If you are looking for standard gauge LGB cars, they are the same size as the blue and silver 1:29 USA car pictured. The brown one in 1:32 scales out to a 40' car. It never existed in real life as a 30' car. It is a figment of USAt's imagination. 


I know this is confusing.

Chuck


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Harsh,
You have a mixed bag here. Are you going to run the 1/32 MTH with the 1/29 or larger LGB? That might be a visual mismatch just do to the different scales. As far as couplers I would go with Kadee. That brings up another question or two. G or #1 couplers? Body mount or truck mount? The type of layout and radius you plan could have influence on the choice. It all needs to be considered before making a choice. Most everyone has their favorite and opinion,including me. I have been running all body mount #1 scale Kadee's for almost twenty years with no regrets. Thats my opinion.


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## mpaterso (May 11, 2009)

Harsh, you mention the bay area in your above post. If this is the SF Bay Area then I suggest you check BAGRS.org as this organization is located the the SF Bay Area from Marine County to Salinas and has 250 - 300 active members with technical skills from beginner to master modeler. Their annual meeting is coming up in February if you find that you would like to join the club. 

Mike Patereson


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Thanks Mike! i will check out BAGRS.org. looking at their website its a little far from where i live about 90 Minutes drive but they also seem to have some local chapters in San Jose and Santa Clara. so i will check that out.


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## puclot (Jan 18, 2014)

Posted By chuck n on 30 Jan 2014 06:37 AM 
The brown B&O car in the pictures is the same size as LGB narrow gauge freight cars. They are 30' long in real life, the scale for them is 1:24. If you are looking for standard gauge LGB cars, they are the same size as the blue and silver 1:29 USA car pictured. The brown one in 1:32 scales out to a 40' car. It never existed in real life as a 30' car. It is a figment of USAt's imagination. 


I know this is confusing.

Chuck

Hi chuck, two questions

1. is there a way a to find out just looking at description that if its a Narrow gauge? does it say somewhere. I think i shall stick to broad gauge as i like that big size of blue car as compared to brown car above

2. does'nt 1:24 (brown car) scale be bigger then 1:29 (blue car). its so confusing.

Thanks
Harsh


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By puclot on 11 Feb 2014 08:12 AM 
Posted By chuck n on 30 Jan 2014 06:37 AM 
The brown B&O car in the pictures is the same size as LGB narrow gauge freight cars. They are 30' long in real life, the scale for them is 1:24. If you are looking for standard gauge LGB cars, they are the same size as the blue and silver 1:29 USA car pictured. The brown one in 1:32 scales out to a 40' car. It never existed in real life as a 30' car. It is a figment of USAt's imagination. 


I know this is confusing.

Chuck

Hi chuck, two questions

1. is there a way a to find out just looking at description that if its a Narrow gauge? does it say somewhere. I think i shall stick to broad gauge as i like that big size of blue car as compared to brown car above

2. does'nt 1:24 (brown car) scale be bigger then 1:29 (blue car). its so confusing.

Thanks
Harsh


You want BIG? My 1/20.3 narrow gauge, 30 foot box car is about 17 3/4" long. A 40 foot, 1/29 box car is about 16 1/2" long. If you want big and a wow factor, then 1/20.3 solves that issue.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Harsh:


Question 1, As a rule of thumb, if the car has wooden sides and it is about 14.5 " long it is most likely based upon a narrow gauge (30' long) car and it is 1:24. If it is about 17" long and has steel sides it is based on a 40' car and scales at 1:29. This works for most box cars, reefers, and flat cars. There are some cars that are longer and shorter in the real world, hoppers, tank, gondolas, etc.

Exception 1, is some steel sided cars made by USAt are on the 14.5" frame, not in the ultimate series. There is not prototype for these, that I know of.

Exception 2, Accucraft's AML line has a wood sided 40' reefer in 1:29.

Question 2, The B&O box car would probably be a 35' car in real life if it is 1:29. It never existed, so scale is meaningless.

The following produce 1:29 engines, freight and passenger cars.

AristoCraft most products are 1:29, exception "Classic series" made from Delton molds (1:24).

USAt "Ultimate" series.

Accucraft "AML" series, freight cars only.

LGB, Steel sided freight cars are close to 1:29, wood sided are close to 1:24. Streamliners are 1:2?, closer to 1:29, but not exact. According to some they are a rubber band scale depending on which dimension is measured.



Chuck


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## Larry S. (Dec 22, 2013)

One of the things LGB used to say about the scale issue is that they 'make toy trains and not scale models'.


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## Dale Loyet (Feb 12, 2008)

WHEN , you change everything to KD's you will never regret the decision. The first six cars I bought , had four different kind of couplers. People told me to go to KD's. I now have KD's in my tool box with a height gauge. When I buy a car it gets metal wheels and KD's before it goes on the track. I use the large ones and body mount them. A little work, but worth the effort.


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