# Gauge One Model Company's Britannia Problems



## Alan Wright (Jan 9, 2008)

Recently at a local track meet a friend pointed out a problem he was dealing with on another friends Gauge One Model Company's "Britannia".
The loco has been run several times and always fails because of particles from the boiler being trapped in the blower or exhaust nozzle. Despite only using distilled water when steamed and several attempts to flush out the material with both dilute acid and CLR the problem still exists. Several knowledgeable people have attempted to eliminate this issue but during the next steamup it reoccurs. 
Has anyone else encountered this problem?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Most strange.
I only know of two Britannia owners, and both their problems were backhead leaks.
Just a thought, he isn't using any 'strange' type of oil in his lubricator, is he?
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada
p.s. HAPPY CANADA DAY Alan, and all the other Canadian members of this forum.


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## Alan Wright (Jan 9, 2008)

Hi David,
Happy Canada Day to you and all on the wet coast.
He uses the same oil we all do here. He is a relatively new member that Roger L has taken under his wing so we know the history of the loco which has only run on Roger's track. Dick Abbott has had a quick look at it and thought he had fixed it but soon after it clogged again. Roger is getting a little frustrated after washing it out several times.
Cheers
Alan


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I know some owners of Aristocraft Live Steam Mikado's that had the same problem.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan
Did Roger fire up the engine with the solution to get it hot, drain and repeat numerous times? I believe we all know where the problem is just how much is there.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Charles said:


> Alan
> Did Roger fire up the engine with the solution to get it hot, drain and repeat numerous times? I believe we all know where the problem is just how much is there.


Charles,
Could you please explain further, as I have no idea where the problem is.
Since these are experienced live steamers, I feel sure that they would have found any 'normal' issues.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

David
As per Alan:"The loco has been run several times and always fails because of particles from the boiler being trapped in the blower or exhaust nozzle."


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Charles said:


> David
> As per Alan:"The loco has been run several times and always fails because of particles from the boiler being trapped in the blower or exhaust nozzle."


Hi Charles,
Thanks for the help!!!
Since Alan said that the boiler has been flushed several times, I was wondering what the particles are, and assumed that you would know.
Is it solder residue that keeps breaking off when run, and that will NOT flush out?
Is it poor grade copper that is degrading with every steaming?
Is it from the tender pump hoses that are rotting on the inside?
Maybe Alan can put a particle under a microscope and determine just what they are?
All the best,
and Happy July 4th to all the US members of this site.
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

David
Thereby heating up the solution and flush many times could loosen and get rid of particles in the boiler or anywhere else (sight glass or other fittings) were debris could get into the water. Other than that send it back to the manufacturer for warranty work.


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## Garry Paine (Jan 2, 2008)

Is there any possibility that a dirty lubricator, or, dirty/wrong oil could cause something like this? (A question from a novice.)

Garrett


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## Alan Wright (Jan 9, 2008)

To answer some of the questions.
This has happened from the first steaming.
Distilled water always used and used by other locos with no ill effects.
Roger is trying to collect some debris to examine closer.
Will report later.
Alan


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Send it to charles.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan,

You said dilute acid is used. What kind of acid is being used and is it being cut with distilled water or regular tap? This is important because there can be deposits that form from that as well. 

It really sounds as if there is thread seal tape or calcuim deposits in the blower line that are making their way forward to the nozzle orfice. If that is the case then there is really nothing for it but to get the end off and really flush that pipe work out with some high strength cleaner (solvent) and the acid solution.

One thing that helps remove the scale deposits faster is if you warm the solution being used before putting it in the boiler. Obviously use caution when handling the solution once warmed. If you are using muratic or some other clothes eating acid, switch to vinegar or better yet, citric acid to avoid noxious fumes and more importantly, rusting anything steel within 20 feet of the vapors! 

Also, the concentration of the acid may be too weak to be effective, so maybe try increasing the acid-water ratio?


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

You could get a USB borescope endoscop fiber optic camera and have a look inside the boiler. They are as cheap as $20 on Amazon. The water filler hole on Accucraft locos is 9mm dia. and the 3 examples below are 7mm camera with LEDs for light. The 3 picked the first 3 I came across with <9mm cameras if you search more you'll find more. 

Plug it into your PC' USB port and bring up your Web Camera SW and select the USB camera. My Windows 7 notebook recognized the camera immediately. I recently bought one to use in inspecting in walls and the video is clear and LEDs have adjustable brightness. If your smartphone has a mini-USB port you could get a USB-to-mini-USB converter and probably use your phone as a display.

XCSOURCE 7mm Waterproof 200x USB Microscope Inspection Borescope Endoscope Pipe 
Inspection Snake Video Camera
$19.99
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009YSEUR8/ref=biss_dp_t_asn











Docooler 7m Waterproof IP67 USB 2.0 Endoscope Inspection Borescope 7mm Camera Head 6 LEDs
$21.99
http://www.amazon.com/Docooler-Wate...erproof+Endoscope+Borescope+Inspection+Camera


Mini 7mm USB Flexible Inspection Camera Microscope Endoscope Borescope
$41.79
http://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Insp...1404671245&sr=8-8&keywords=fiber+optic+camera


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Yeah. Might not have to send it in after all.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Boroscope is a great idea, but the Britannia has no filler plug, only access to the boiler directly is through a fitting or the safety valves. 

Largest access hole is 5mm, maybe 6mm through one of the banjos. The offending blower pipe is probably less than 2mm diameter. Not to mention there are some tubes and other items that are in the way so maybe not such free and clear access after all?


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Flexible boroscopes are available from 0.5mm with the more common sizes 2.0mm to 5.0mm+. Rigid boroscopes from 0.2mm or smaller for extreme cases.

Rentals are widely available given use is infrequent versus investment. 

This seems like a job for Gauge One Model Company being in their own best interest.


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## Alan Wright (Jan 9, 2008)

Finally,
Roger took the blower pipe out of the boiler and soaked it in acid for several hours. While this was going on he washed out the boiler with acid (letting it soak) and CLR after reassembly it appears that the problem is gone. There was some dissolved and some solid particles but no analysis.
I hope for all sake this has cured the problem. There were questions and side tracks about the water but they had no relevance to the problem in this case. I suspect that the particulate was from the manufacturing process.
Cheers
Alan


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Alan,
But it is strange that, as far as we know on MLS, this is the only one that has had a problem this way.
Since i would think that all the boilers were made at the same time, more locos would have had this problem.
Oh well, glad to hear that it is now fixed.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta Canada


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## doublereefed (Jan 3, 2008)

Jumping in on an old thread, but I can't find the "Gauge 1 Model Company" or the "Gauge One Model Company". It sounds like this company commissioned the Merchant Navy build from Accucraft?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

doublereefed said:


> Jumping in on an old thread, but I can't find the "Gauge 1 Model Company" or the "Gauge One Model Company". It sounds like this company commissioned the Merchant Navy build from Accucraft?


They merged with Accucraft UK a couple of years ago.
https://www.accucraft.uk.com/2015/10/accucraft-november-news-5/

Although I believe there were actually 2 different Merchant Navy models commissioned by the two separate companies. I don't know if G1MC every delivered one.


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

*Britannia Problems - possible solution*

I'm late to this thread, but let me describe how Tom Myers solved what sounds like a similar problem at Diamondhead a few years ago.

Tom's Flying Scotsman seemed to be gummed up/plugged up and would perform in the same manner as the Britannia here.

Jerry Reshew suggested that Tom fill the boiler with pure off the shelf distilled vinegar and then fire it up while the loco was on a rolling road. 

Tom did as instructed, then fired it up and let it run, for almost an hour with the only service being to add distilled water to the tender and one refill of the fuel tank. 

After about 45 minutes, the loco "coughed", sputtered and seemed to clear its self and not only smoothed out a little and actually seemed to be running stronger. About 5 minutes later, it did the same thing again, but this time it continued to run strongly and smoothly. PROBLEM SOLVED.

The loco was given a complete bath, top to bottom and then it was properly serviced.

Tom ran it again a couple times, each without incident.


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## doublereefed (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, thanks for that bit of history.

Best!

-Richard


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Pete Thornton said:


> They merged with Accucraft UK a couple of years ago.
> https://www.accucraft.uk.com/2015/10/accucraft-november-news-5/
> 
> Although I believe there were actually 2 different Merchant Navy models commissioned by the two separate companies. I don't know if G1MC every delivered one.


Yes there were two models - one from G1MC who commissioned it from Accucraft - and the other commissioned by Aster UK from the Aster company of Japan.

These two rival models were released in the same year - consequently there was considerable ill feeling generated between the two company principals which they aired very publicly on their respective web sites.

It seems rather ironic that both these companies have now wound up being part of Accucraft.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> These two rival models were released in the same year - consequently there was considerable ill feeling generated between the two company principals which they aired very publicly on their respective web sites.


I remember that. Lots of public nasty comments - most entertaining.

Just curious - did both versions actually generate sales, or did one quietly disappear? There's no sign of the WuHu/G1MC version on the WuHu website.


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## Accucraft UK (Sep 16, 2013)

Yes, a sad affair..... Both companies succeeded in making batches, the G1MRCo ones sold out before they shipped. To clarify, Accucraft (UK) acquired the G1MRCo rights, Accucraft (US) are producing locos for Aster and do not own the firm.

Graham.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

The road to success may take an unpleasant turn here and there, but both models did sell out.

I'd like to think the end result was satisfactory for all concerned.

I am quite pleased with my own RMN.

~Joe


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