# the NEW aristocraft switch machine



## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I just got some of the NEW aristocraft switch machines 


what I was expecting was a ALL NEW slow moving machine that I was hoping would hold up as well as a LGB EPL ......


what I got was a BOHLER type machine with an adaptor to hook it up to aristo turnouts .....


some pictures below are of the aristo machine and the BOHLER one from Train-li-USA

the aristo one has all plastic gears and screws that hold the cover on and has a little connector to hook the wires up to ... but I am not sure the connector is a good idea for outside ....



bohler











aristo











aristo left bohler right


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

What is the price difference between the two?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I can't understand what the "patent pendng" is supposed to cover, since it's obviously a copy of the Bohler. I read the review of this in GR, and they never suggested it was a copy of an existing design


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have pictures of the prototype from almost 2 years ago. The throwbar was square in cross section and Lewis told me he would O ring seal it. Well, now it's possible since it's round. That's good news. 

The other issue I had was waterproofing (that was the claim) the connectors. Looks like the entry to the mechanism via the connector is not sealed, and the addition of the little board just adds more contacts to corrode or get dirty. 

But since it is an obvious clone of the bohler, that feature is copied too. 

Maybe there is a new "cloning" procedure to patent? It takes guts, as some other member said. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe there is a new "cloning" procedure to patent? 
Not sure, but I believe it would depend upon whether Bohler had patented the original. There may be international issues as well. Just a thought. I'm certainly no patent attorney.


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

You can't patent a product that's allready being traded, atleast that's how it works here.
In Australia you could patent the wheel if you wanted to, and it's been done, how it is in the states... who knows


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

From what I've seen this definitely not a switch to put out doors. It will go belly up in a heart beat. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

both motors look like the ones we had years ago in slot cars I used to play with.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Well that's not good. The Train-Li units have not got good reviews of long term use from the boys in the UK. 

-Brian


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 02/12/2009 8:38 PM
Well that's not good. The Train-Li units have not got good reviews of long term use from the boys in the UK. 

-Brian


That is good to know ...... 

I have had one for a year and in looking at it was afraid it might not do well outside the cost of the aristo one is 31.00 and you get the machine and adaptor for aristo turnouts plus a power conection with dpst switch and the little plug in board ... 

this thing only draws like 200 ma at the start of movement then drops to like 150ma as it runs then turns itself off .... 

it runs real well with a 9 volt battery aristo says to coat the contacts with rubber cement if you use it outside ... 

Is rubber cement uv stabe ? anyone tryed this on something ?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I think rather than rubber cement I'd try that liquid electrical tape stuff they sell at Home Depot


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

have you tryed it outside in the sun ...... I am at 5500 ft so the uv is a little stronger


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 02/12/2009 4:47 AM
I can't understand what the "patent pendng" is supposed to cover, since it's obviously a copy of the Bohler. I read the review of this in GR, and they never suggested it was a copy of an existing design


Thinking back on this I think I did not read a review in GR, I think all I saw was a new product announcement and maybe a review on LSOL, which I no longer belong to.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Lewis was very interested in showing it to me. I saw it at the BTS in Ontario, and then again at the NGRC. 

I expressed concern how it was to become waterproof. The prototype I saw had a throwbar of square cross section, so I was skeptical. This has been corrected in the production model... GOOD! 

The other concern is moisture getting into where the contacts are. From what I saw when I held it in my hands, there was no protection from water getting in, and it seems that this has not changed. I would goop silicon all over the outside where the opening is in the switch machine. I think that the extra board with the screw terminals is convenient, but I would have opted for a plug with wires attached. This would allow waterproofing more easily, than the big chunk of board, not to mention getting silicon in the little bitty screws. 

So overall, I see one improvement, but calling this switch motor water resistant is not credible at all (was originally to be waterproof). The chances of waterproofing it yourself are marginal in my opinion. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. Scott: could I use your excellent pictures on my site? I would credit you of course.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

ANA Kramer has them on Ebay for $24.95, the Aristo ones. I was looking for alternatives to ever increasing LGB switch machines. With the above reviews, I am not so sure now if I want to use them outdoors.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristocraft has posted electrical diagrams of this new switch machine and call for diodes for motor direction, and the diagrams show diodes on the inside of the unit. 

Also Lewis stated these are 12 volt motors and he will void the warranty if motors burn out on high voltages.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

the funny thing is the dioides on the outside are redundant and not needed .... 

this thing works well on 9 volts so I may have to add a resistor to throw it with dcc ...


I am also going to hook it up to a number 6 switch and see how it does ...


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

I believe the schematic as authored by Aristo-Craft is incorrect / flawed for its shown external connection applications. 

The schematic diagram is somewhat unclear to me as I look at it, but from what I can tell the switch machine's INTERNAL diodes & switch in combination appear to be for the purpose of serving as an overrun circuit (limiting means) like that of the older, heretofore, Aristo turnout motor assembly - meaning if the voltage applied to actuate the motor were to remain applied (upon which the internal switch is repositioned to accept anticipated opposite polarity of applied voltage) the resulting circuit configuration is to prevent motor overrun.

In the case of the schematic's lower right-hand diagram for AC application showing two external switches connected to two external diodes, I would think the switches should be shown to be ganged together with one normally open whilst the other normally closed. As such, this would accommodate proper operational control to take advantage of the switch machine's internal overrun circuit- which is how the external connections to the switch machine are shown. The external diodes are to rectify the AC to DC (half wave) as the switch machine motor operates on DC. 

In the case of the schematic's upper right-hand diagram for AC application AND upper left hand for DC application - given the way it's connections are shown, it would not take advantage of the internal overrun circuit; but most significantly, the switch motor would only actuate in one direction as a diode would block any opposite polarity path in which needed to operate the switch to the opposite direction.

-Ted


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Also for any folks that like to use a switch light to indicate direction of turnout are SOL. Later RJD


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

it doesn't show well but there is a jumper between the two top terminals. With the jumper in place it will work.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

George, 

With the picture of the schematic here it is too hard for me to determine a jumper. 
I have a couple on order. So when I get them I will know for sure. 

Thanks, 
-Ted


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

the electrical contacts on the bottom of the drawing are extra for use with light or anything else .....

what is not in the drawing is the slide contacts that interrupt power to the motor once the turnout has thrown..... so yes once it is done moving it goes dead 

I also have not posted a picture yet of the adaptor ( as in the drawing ) that lets you bolt it to the turnout .... that has the square part that greg saw at the show ....


I hooked this up to a number 6 y turnout I have and it allmost does not throw the points and this is just on my bench .... the problem I see is that the spring inside is just to weak to apply any real power to mover the points .... I just do not see how this will work outside ...


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Scott,

The INTERNAL switch & diodes are shown, and these in combination serve to prevent the motor from overrunning (e.g."interrupt power to the motor once the turnout has thrown").
In this regard, the internal diodes are not to be considered redundant with respect to the examples having the external diodes that serve to rectify AC to DC. 


Also, as George described, it does look like a jumper is shown placed on the exterior switch connections on two of the examples.

The picture below is from ebay, and it shows the adapter:













As to the previous mention of the "Patent Pending" inscription, it could be that it pertains to the adapter and not the switch motor assembly itself. That said, I have not yet located a patent application that resembles the Aristo product when searching the USPTO for applications, nor have I found something searching the WIPO world IP site. -Ted


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

the conection from A to B is done outside of the machine ......

you only need the dioides if you are running single wire with the jumper from a to b ..... the benny of this is you could run a dioide matrix 


yes the drawing shows a little slidder arm .... but that is not how it looks inside the machine 



I took ac power with one leg hooked to common and touched it to A which ran it one way then to B which ran it the other with no extra dioides ..... so with 3 wire hookup they are not needed ...


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Scott, 

Thanks for posting the better pictures of the schematic. 
The connection from A to B is clearly there and does look like a jumper outside the machine - as George described. 
As to the little slider arm (internal to the machine) are you sure it is not under the gear driven block or the throw arm? If not the schematic is drawn incorrectly. 

(The old version Aristo machine has the contacts under its throw arm as shown in the below picture.
The throw arm contacts touch adjacent circuit board trace pads - serving to connect them together; thus, constituting a switch. 
One of the arm's contacts is for the motor overrun switch to stop the motor whilst the other contact is for the accessory switch.) 









Thank you, 
-Ted


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## Joe Mascitti (Oct 30, 2008)

It will not last a month outside...

Why slow motion?...how about a strong throw weatherproof switch that will hold up outdoors?

The least they could have done was to include a snap cover to somewhat protect the circuit board...


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Since the machine doesn't complete it's own cycle, it needs power until the cycle is done, then it shuts itself off. This is similar to the older motors, but they acted so fast that a capacitive discharge driver would run it. On this one, a simple pulse won't do the job unless it is a long pulse.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Yes George.
I fully agree.

-Ted


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

I noticed that Scott stated: 

"... the problem I see is that the spring inside is just to weak to apply any real power to mover the points .... " 

One thing you can try is to use a stiffer spring. 
Another thing you can do is to install two switch motors on the one turnout. 

Shown below is what I did using the old version Aristo turnout motor assembly as a pair installed in push - pull fashion on a # 6 turnout: 










-Ted


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## hudrail (Mar 16, 2008)

Hummm we always seem to get half a product when for a few dollars more perfection would be a world beater ! Well the ultimate slow switch machine has just arrived from the fatherland! It is in stock at Glendale Junction.co.uk and is a trainline 45 track system motor that has two wires that connect to the track is fully DCC ready to programe with an address and is water proof . I have not tried one yet but here in your tribal homelands where rain is so much part of every day life it needs to be waterproof . I will fit one within the next couple of weeks and report back . There is also a cheaper version that is not DCC . There are dismantled photos of the motors on the Glendale site and the Germen site is www.train-line45.de so there you go the world moves on and is one market place . 
Brent


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

Ok I am interested .... how about a picture ? and how do I get them ?


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

well I found a picture and I like what I see .... just need to know where to get them and how much


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Now you got my attention on this DCC switch machine. Need more info and what it cost. How about it Scott? Later RJD


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Seems like we have a newbie that does not like to follow up on his post. I'm not into German so the site is little to no use to me. Come on Brent is it top secret or what. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I saw 47.95 Euro on the site, I think it's the right product, but I would have been nice to have the link to the description, even in German: 

*http://www.herforder-lokschuppen.de/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=40&Itemid=47*

I translated this page, no mention of waterproofing, and if you look at the circuit board, and where it fits in the houseing, waterproofing is iiffy...

Do you have another page with info?

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)




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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, that's what google did for me. 

Did you find any evidence of suitability for outdoor use? I did not see it, not to mention waterproofing. That poor little board looks vulnerable. Nice looking hardware though, like the sealed gear and motor housing. 

Regards, Greg


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

60 bucks a switch driver? I'm gonna have to pass. I could hire someone to move my switches for me for less. And improve the economy.


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

What about the air drive switch machines. I started using them on my old layout and they worked every year first thing. I don't remember who made them.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

60 bucks isn't that bad--LGB switch drives, which IMHO are the best electric solution out there, go for about 40 bucks on ebay. For 20 bucks more, this one is controllable by DCC, which means no extra wires, no switch control box, etc.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, this thread is all over the place. Doug, I think you can search the forum for several discussions on air operated switches. 

Mike, I agree with you, since I already run DCC, the combination of a good quality electric switch motor and a dcc decoder all integrated is worth $60, BUT it needs to survive outside. I'm not seeing ANY reference to ANY weather resistance, and remain highly skeptical of Brent's claim it is waterproof. With so much text devoted to it's description, not ONE mention of weather resistance or suitability outdoors. 

I went to glendalejunction.co.uk, and they cliam: "Then they integrated DCC into the same chassis, eliminating water penetration to the minimum that is technically possible. In addition servo and electronics are sealed against water for DC and DCC." 

Makes sense, integrating the DCC, but I want to see the statement from the manufacturer. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never been businessman or a manufacturer, so obviously it's easy for me to criticize, but I keep thinking a waterproof switch motor isn't exactly a high tech, cutting edge thing. The LGB ones are pretty darn good. Highly waterproof, reliable--I've had two running outdoors for two winters without a single bit of maintenance on my part, and they both still work fine. 

Even with this design, it would seem like you could just encapsulate the electronics in epoxy. Maybe there would be heat problems?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, there is a very important difference between waterproof and water resistant. (good example is watches) Water resistant will handle water splashing on it. Waterproof means it can be immersed in water. 

The problems with electronics outdoors is the heating and cooling (from the ambient temperature) will draw moisture into a device unless it is hermetically sealed. Most people leave drain holes in the bottom to drain accumulated moisture, and try to protect the contents from corrosion. 

LGB motors are not waterproof, but the design allows water to get out, and the quality of the components is high enough that they only need cleaning once in a while. 

Regards, Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have been informed that Train-Li USA carries all the Train-Line45 products in the US. I've asked the questions that have been posed here lately, and will post the replies. 

Regards, Greg


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

well looky there you are right ..... will have to get one and see how it does ..



http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/prodrive-dcc-p-312.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I searched his site and could not find it, now it's there! Thanks, and that answers the price question... 

Well, the prices is not bad, less than 48 Euros in today's market. 

R.J., there you are, buy yours! 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks I will check them out today. Hope it's the ticket I've been looking for. Sure would save on a lot of wiring. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

How well does that USA #6 switch machine work, and how waterproof is it? It was smart of them to enclose the microswitch and it looks to be pretty robust


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've gotten more detailed information, will put it up on my site, but the electronics are apparently isolated and have some silicon treatment to make them moisture resistant. The water resistance techniques include overlapping cover halves (not just butted together) and a drainage system, much like LGB. 

So, any moisture that WILL collect inside (this is a fact of physics) will drain out the bottom, so it follows the tried and true methods of others. You cannot operate this unit in standing water, but it will shed water from above. So basically as long as your track is not flooded, the switch machine will be fine. We know this technique from LGB and it has worked over the years. 

Regards, Gre


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## hudrail (Mar 16, 2008)

Hi Guys
Sorry I am new to this forum thing and only look on line once a week . I have the largest 5" gauge private railway in the U K and due to illness am setting myself up in G scale so that in my final time on this Earth I can still play trains ! I am learning slowly though . I am staggered at the lack of interchangerbility but thats another forum you will tell me . See I am learning . Will be in Denver in a few months so see some of you there .
 Brent


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Just ordered two of the DCC trainline 45s should be here this week and will get them installed ASASP. Hope theses do the trick for my reverse loop. Later RJD


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## Chip (Feb 11, 2008)

As a user of several Boehler motors, I thought about this a bit before replying. I will stick to some observations about the Boehler unit and the Aristo knock-off unit. Boehler has gold contacts; Aristo seem to be brass.
Boehler case is well sealed at the edges, not so sure about the Aristo, looks questionable. Boehler uses what appears to be Delrin gears (self lubing), Aristo uses lots of grease on what seem to be cheap plastic gears.

Grease runs in the summer, maybe even on to the electric contacts. 

The motor in the Boehler is wound with enameled copper wire; the Aristo unit is clear coated, which I believe will not last and is poor with heat. Enough. I have had a lot of Aristo switches, I replace a lot of things.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with George in that if a jumper is placed on the 2 top pins, a set of diodes will be needed to control the switch motor direction.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

??? Dan were you just now reading page 2 and made this post? I think that discussion is over. (I've done that too, not notice a whole new page of a thread). 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I feel compelled to contribute some clarity to this thread since *Train-Li-USA* is the distributor of the TrainLine45 products (under the trade names ProDrive - Manual, DC, DCC / ProSwitch / ProTrack) as well as the Boehler switch drives (under the trade name MasterLine).

*A. ProDrive application*
As seen in a previous picture ProDrives a a servo based technology with a rectangular lever that allows to switch approximately points for about 11 mm. TrainLIne45 choose such a large distance because ProSwitches have precision machined points that undercut the rail-heads for a very tight fit on directional changes. The double spring system is responsible for the proper pressure against the push-rod. The purpose of the springs is to guarantee optimal functionality of the switch and not the ability to cut the switch open from reverse! TrainLine45 decided that operational security (and this way is prototypical) was more important than cutting a switch open from the opposite side. In addition the ProSwitches have a metal frog that can be powered and an optional microswitch (can be inserted into the ProDrive) can switch the polarity of that frog. In this application you can't cut the switch open from reverse without causing a a short anyhow. The top lid reaches over all 4 side walls hence preventing water from leaking in from the top. The electrical contacts are silicon sealed at the point where they transverse through the body. But it is the nature of the beast - wherever you have moving parts (push-rod) water could leak in. Mechanical precautions have been taken to minimize the effect (e.g. a little cover over the outlets of the push-rod prevents water to directly splatter in the area of the push-rod coming through the chassis). The electronic board on the inside rests on a silicon cushion and two holes allow for immediate drainage of the potential water. No drive I have seen, however, is water-resistant - only water-proof. That means ProDrives will do fine - as long as there is enough water drainage around the location where the switch is located! ProDrives will not work under water - so does nobody else's (don't get fooled by Piko's stunt on the Nuernberg toy fair where their LGB clone was operated under water - - *Distilled Water - *a nice gimmick but not real world. Distilled water has no electrical property and cannot cause any corrosion, hence you can put the drive in there and no short cirucit will occur). The ProDrive mounting is the exact spacing as known from the tie spacing from LGB. ProDrive (DC and DCC) is a slow motion drive with an adjustable speed from 1 sec. to about 4 sec.As a matter of fact the DC and DCC version is using the same electronic board and a DC drives switching speed can be reprogrammed using a DCC central station. Customers who bought DC can upgrade to DCC. An optional lantern is available as an accessory. 

*B. MasterLine applications*
MasterLine drives are much smaller in foot print size than ProDrive, but the most distinctive differences are:
- motor and gear driven mechanics
- round push-rod which traverses through the chassis via a o-ring
- one version (WA1) works in momentary applications as well due to a latching relay. In this case the motor receives permanent power on it s own leads and the toggle switch send power to the latching relay.

The MasterLine drives have been on the market for at least more than 10 years and have proven themselves reliable with more than 10,000 switching operations and come with 2 year warranty. G-scale Mad in the UK did not report problems with MasterLine drives. TrainLi (Switzerland) temporarily sold Aristocraft electric switch machines which as everybody knows render themselves useless in time (sometimes in shortest time). Stephan from TrainLi thought he had that better under control by additionally waterproofing them, but that wasn't the case. Unfortunately UK customers (potentially others as well) labeled the drive "TrainLi" (a mistake that could have tainted the otherwise excellent technical reputation of their own manufactured products - such as the dual rail bender many of you have come to love). 

The Masterline drive has an optional LGB adapter plate which increases the mechanical operational way from 7 mm (borderline for some G-scale switches) to 9 mm. I have been using MasterLine drives for several years now (and you all know how bad out conditions here in New England are), but I cover the drive for the winter and have of course proper drainage (bed of crusher fines) preventing standing water. The drive (even open the circuit boards side) is well sealed and makes it water resistant. MasterLine drives have an already build in electric switching mechanism that allows for reliable power control of a frog polarization, signal, or track power (ON/OFF for a siding). Many have come to know this feature as EPL supplementary switch in this case 1/2 of an EPL supplementary switch).

If have found that the gear driven mechanism works reliable and that my maintenance cycles on my switch are longer than compared with EPL drives. Dirt in the switch itself impacts the mobility quicker with EPL than with MasterLIne. Considering MasterLine's WA2 price of $29.95 (with 1/2 EPL supplementary switch) it is actually a bargain compared to the EPL drive (~ 2x 29.95).

MasterLine drives comes with a detailed booklet that explains many of the different operational aspects. 

*C. Masterline vs. Aristocraft slow motion machine* Personally, before I go into details, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed that Aristocraft has decided to clone excellent products, that Train-Li-USA has brought to the US market. We are a smaller firm, which has its heart in LargeScale trains and always have the best for our customers in mind. But even more disappointing is the fact that the "clone" product has in our opinion so many short comings because of the short cuts being taken or because of the much cheaper parts being used. We therefore have decided to show the differences in detail,because we cannot allow that the reputation of the MasterLine drives gets tainted by its "primitive" imitation. And last not least - *no you can't file in the US for a Patent which has prior art.* Now to the details and we have not made any modification/manipulation to the switch drives as they come right out of the retail package:

1. Inside look MasterLine[/b]











Things to notice:
thick layer gold plated printed circuit board. Brass Gear and switching mechanism. Brass bushing with rims for better fit and guidance inside the chassis mold. Delrin block on the movable rod, Delrin drive gears (those which are not in Brass) and notice the reddish coating of the motor armature wiring? This is magnetic copper wire. This coating is necessary to prevent burn through among the wires. Please consider that the motor will work in the chassis that might collect quite an amount of heat when outside in the summer. Just a clear coated wire is not sufficient in our opinion. Also compare the grease free environment of MasterLine switches.

Compare this to the Aristo drive:










*2. The lever system*









Note the single package Delrin enclosure (MasterLIne) and compare the two halve shell plastic enclosure (Aristo) that easily comes apart. You also see the difference in the bushings, the over-greased plastic gear (compare to the brass gear). Easily: When we opened the drive the cover was already lifted on one side. We can envision that due to the "forces" of the two screws and in warm operations conditions the cover may lift on its own and render the drive useless. This is very critical since the lid hols the three contacts in place which could lead to short circuits.











*3 Gold Contacts vs regular metal*

The Masterline Contacts are thickly gold coated as are their counterparts on the printed circuit baord. This is important because you don't want corrosion caused by two different metals or limited contacts. The entire electrical operation of the dirves depend on the proper and precision movement of the contacts. If you want to ensure longterm operation you can't afford anything else but gold contacts. Also take a look at the thickness and the height of the walls between the contacts, so that no mechanical force can compromise their position and potnetially render the drive useless.










and now the Aristo lid









You see that when we took the photo and placed the unit down one of the contacts slipped already out of position. Also notive on the next picture how different the PC track coating looks - not shiny at all. If that is gold (which I didn't chemically test) it is an ultr thing coating and you arelady see that the manufacturing testing left skid marks on the track (we haven't used the switch drive at all - couldn't as a matter of fact as you will see further down)










*4. Enclosure*

MasterLine drives chassis shells are held together by a rivet, therefore the two hollow stems do not offer any intrusion for water into the chassis. In addtion the two channels left my the rivet are used to securly mount the drive to a surface, e.g. we recommend the adapter plate. 

Aristo use tap screws and as you can see on the picture below someone during manufacturing tightened the screw a bit too much and already broke the chassis (palstic is also too brittle for this tpye of operation in our opinion). This can potentially welcome water into the chassis on day 1. Look for yourself.










*5. Assembly quality*
We all know that assembly quality in China and Germany differ. Above we see a crack, but that of course is already a flawed design (tapping screws vs type of plastic being used). If the drive we received is indicative of the assembly quality then you have to look at the cold solder (we bend the motor slight away from the contact so that verybody can see it). This was the root course why our motor didn't function out of the box. (See Aristo motor block below) 










*6 The lever adapter*
The lever adapter does not have the thin metal hinge pins, but uses plastic recepticels. The guide for the lever itself is very wide. Both factor can pontetial contribute to the fact that ther is less push power going to the switches pushrod.

*Conclusion:* The Aristo slow motion machine is a "clone" of the Boehler switch drive which took shortcuts and therefore it is our believe that the longterm operation is impacted and that even if the MAsterLine drive costs a few dollars more that the money ist better invested. Think of how much time it takes to mount and demount, troubleshoot if it doens't work? That is time spent doeing something else but "playing" with the layout.

This is now the third product that has been "cloned/copied" with or without modifications. I believe I have clearly demonstrated where the short commings are. What do you believe you will get on the other "cloned/copied" products - all of which we had successfully introduced into the US market to a very satisfied clientle.

As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. And everyone is free to make that decision. I am here to protect our brand - and to also clearly state that the MasterLine switch drives are different from Aristo Slow Motion drives. We needed to make this statement becaue based on our ad in the garden railway magazine we have already received technical support calls for the Aristo product - that is hilarious - to say the least.


You know where to find us if there are any further questions. As always

dedidcated to the hobby and to our customers

Axel Tillmann


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Very good documentation Axel, thanks for the facts.


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Will the Masterline come with built in DCC at a later time? like the Pro-drive?
I have been looking at the Bohler/Masterline machine for some time, but I am holding out because I want DCC, and for the Masterline I would need a seperate DCC switch-controller.

Also I use Peco #1 and soon also Hubner switches so I think the Masterline will be better for size.

Hmmmm


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## Caseyjones012 (Jul 29, 2008)

I have very few switches outdoors on the Arlington and Little Falls Railroad because they require so much maintenance and seem to be pretty much the soul source of derailments. Those switches are manual. The real world of the ALF deposits detritus into the space where the rails move which requires manual intervention before a switch can be thrown. Throwing a switch without cleanup beforehand will result in only partially closed points. So, since I have to be at the switch anyway, there is no point having electrically operated switch machines. 

Does no one else have these problems with switches outdoors? 

I’m new to MLS and haven’t learned my way around the site yet. How do I add a photo to a forum post?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello neighbor! I'm just down the road from you in arlington, near the lost dog cafe and Ayers hardware

I have two remote driven switches on my small layout, and the rest are manual. The remote ones have worked extremely wel for me. Unitl recently, I had two LGB 1600 series switches powered by LGB motors. Both workd really well. But both of them are off the ground--one off by about 2 feet, the other by a couple inches. Neither is one ballasted track, whcih might make a difference. I do find that now and then I have to go and get some mashed up leaves out of the point rails


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Hagen:

The quick answer is yes and will be sold as WA3. The form factor of WA3 will be the one of the WA1 (more rectangular not square) and instead of the latching relay I am positioning a ZIMO MX82 decoder in there. I have the prototype running but I am still working on using all abilities of the MX 82 meaning the two external triggers. Once that is solved the drive will head to Boehler for a production run. So in that case all pins will be used:

1,2,3 one external switch
4,5 Input 1 and 2
6,7 DCC in
8,9 programming bulb (this one seems to be necessary because all systems react differently, and for the feedback to properly work - all the time) we will have this output available to connect a 24 V light bulb during programming.

So this combo will allow you to control 4 + 4 switches under one address (4 in accordance to NMRA with CV 9 and the additional 4 over address concatenation (with ZIMO) - think of it as combining 2 engines together as one consists)

This will allow you on one cab under one address to control 8 switches over F0 to F7


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

So of course we all seem to be going through this route, if it is not one thing then it is one other. But predominantly the impact comes from the crusher fines on which I laid down my roadbed. (never lay the track directly on soil, because every time it rains you switch is history).

So how did I conquer this for the long term?

I have tested now for 2 years running one train station where the switches are mounted on concrete backer-board and the crusher fines a glued onto the backer board. Now there is really no movable dirt (except for whats in the air). I haven't had any small crusher fines intruding into the area, dust I blow out with a compressor and then use a little bit of Teflon spray to smooth everything. Now everything works like a charm for a hole season and needless to say that I am remote controlling everything.

In my personal opinion switches are the spice to our hobby. I call it play action - delivering cars from station to station, parking trains on a siding and so on. This is what keeps me for hours going, versus running a train around in a circle. But of course everybody is different and has different priorities.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I use a 1-inch chip brush (paint brush) with the bristles cut down to about 1/2 inch to stiffen them some, to brush the flange ways of the frog, guard rails and around the points to get out any twigs or ballast the birdies have flipped there whilst dining on my ballast. A quick visual inspection will show if there is any debris to be removed.... all part of the track inspection prior to running an expensive train on an elevated line.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Axel thank you for the clarification. Train LI has some very cool stuff going on. Will you be at the ECLSTS?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ha check out the AC forum. Lewis says he is going to make his new switch machine available in DCC later this year. Later RJD


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes I will be at the ECLSTS.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Actually he says he is going to make a 24V version, instead of the current 12V version, for the DCC poeple, but so far he wasn't asserting to make a DCC drive - big difference. Let him do it - that is too funny. Evenutally I can charge for the product development of Aristocraft.









Rest assured there is much more were this is coming from







and wait for the ECLSTS, there will be a great new product of ours displayed







- aah this is big enough we filed the patents for that - so no need to run to China and clone it as well.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Axle I thought it was funny also. He says he does not want to get into DCC. Later RJD


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Just tested one of the new switch machines. Haven't hooked it to a switch yet but made the electrical hookups using the switch and cable that came with the unit. Put red in A, black in B, green in Common, hooked a 7.2 Li-ion battery to it and away she went.

Flipped the switch 40-11 times and it worked every time.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Stan, I like you, I've met you personally and you are a heck of a nice guy, and knowledgable, but in reference to your post: "so"? 

This has been a very detailed discussion about the quality and construction of the new Aristo switch machine, full of pictures and facts. Since there is no long term testing, we have to analyze. It's clear it is a clone of a successful product, but with differences, which APPEAR (at least to me) to be cost-saving ideas. 

Long term testing will bear out whether or not these cost-cutting measures will affect quality or life, but again, my opinion, they will. 

This is not Aristo bashing (although I'm not impressed with cloning rather than inventing), it PRODUCT ANALYSIS. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I just found out about the aristo switch machine and this thread from a post that Greg made elsewhere.

If people are concerned about water proof switch machines, they may want to take a look at the one Piko is about to introduce.

The picture below (not very clear) was taken at the Piko booth at the Nürnberg Toy Fair last month - there is an aquarium in the foreground at the right with the Piko switch machine running submerged in water.









And this is the current info on the Piko website:
http://www.piko.de/produkt_db/check.php?page=detail&grand_id=6&parent_id=5&child_id=0&id=35271

Knut


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The tank of water was distilled water and has no mineral to affect the switch machine but if you submerge in regular water all bets are off. Axle's post above explains it.Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This thread has pretty much killed off any interest I might have had in the Aristo machine. It's a knock off and less well executed.If I ever go to DCC this is the way I'll go


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 03/04/2009 3:41 PM
The tank of water was distilled water and has no mineral to affect the switch machine but if you submerge in regular water all bets are off. Axle's post above explains it.Later RJD


Thanks for pointing that out - I tend to just skim over long posts and missed that.

However...........aren't we worried about rain water? Rain water is essentially distilled water - there are no minerals in rain water. The minerals only get picked up as water flows through the ground.

So well water would have minerals in it, but rain water doesn't.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Until it hits the ground and mixes with whatever the soil is... remember it takes very little impurity to make water conductive... 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Rain water is pure? I have never heard of Acid rain!!! Or have I ????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, I stayed away from that one, because people would tell me that THEIR state has pure rain, it's us weirdos in Kalifornia! 

Yep rain water is pure, although in polluted environments, the first few minutes are not! 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 03/05/2009 5:31 AM
Rain water is pure? I have never heard of Acid rain!!! Or have I ????




Acid rain has nothing to do with it. That's simply the Ph of the water.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Actually it has - unless this Author is wrong:








Familiar tap water or river water contains various substances. So, it is not actually pure water (







). Of course, tap water is fine for household use. For scientific research or industrial engineering, however, we sometimes need highly pure water.

As we try to make pure water by gradually removing electrolytes, its conductivity gradually decreases. So, if all electrolytes are removed, will its conductivity become zero? No. Why? Because an infinitesimal part of the molecules of water--only about one in 500 million--is ionized as hydrogen ions (







) and hydroxide ions (







). Theoretically, at this point, the conductivity becomes 0.0548 µS/cm at 25 °C.

The conductivity of water used in the production of VLSIs in the semiconductor industry is below 0.06 µS/cm-- that's water of very high purity indeed. Such water is referred to as ultrapure water. Without going to such an ultrapure level, conductivity of water can be lowered to below 1 µS/cm through a process of deionization. Such water is called ion-exchanged water or deionized water. When we talk about pure water, we refer to water of this level of purity. When water comes in contact with air, carbon dioxide is dissolved in water, causing its conductivity to rise by about 1 µS/cm. This does affect the conductivity of pure water.









The term acid rain has already become a household word. But, what exactly does it mean? Although many people know this word, not many fully understand its meaning. Here's how rain becomes acid rain: First, we know that sea water and lake and river water evaporates into the atmosphere, forming clouds, and comes back to the ground in the form of rain. In other words, rain is distilled water and neutral (pH of 7), and its conductivity is close to that of pure water. But, when the atmosphere is polluted with sulfur oxide (







) and oxides of nitrogen (







), the rain goes through oxidation with ozone (







) or hydrogen peroxide (







) before falling to the ground, and forms some







and







. These are contained in the rain that pounds your umbrella. These compounds







and







are sulfuric acid and nitric acid, respectively. When these acids fall to the ground--and they do--it's a serious problem.

The definition of acid rain is not very clear, but generally rainwater with pH below 5.5 or 5.6 is called acid rain. The pH alone, however, does not tell us the actual quantity of pollutants contained in rain.

Some acid rain with pH of 5 has a conductivity of 50 µS/cm, while other acid rain with pH of 5 can have conductivity of 100 µS/cm. Naturally, the acid rain of 100 µS/cm has a higher concentration of pollutants. Incidentally, in the case of rain with very small content of pollutants and conductivity of around 10 µS/cm, reliable measurement of pH is difficult, and in some cases it may show a pH of around 5, caused by aspects other than pollutants.

When measuring acid rain, therefore, we recommend that you first measure conductivity in order to determine the density of pollutants before measuring pH.

In Japan, an acid rain incident occurred in 1973 where people complained of irritation to the skin or eyes, and this occurred with a drizzling rain.

The relationship between large-scale logging and acid rain was brought to the forefront especially in Europe and North America, and now investigations are being undertaken worldwide regarding the chronic 

From
http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_05.htm


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03/05/2009 7:40 AM

Yep rain water is pure, although in polluted environments, the first few minutes are not! 




Yes - rainwater certainly picks up pollutants on its way to the earth, but these are chemicals and they for example create acid rain.

But are there minerals floating around in the atmoshere that rainwater picks up on its' way to the ground?

I have been trying to find a correct scientific answer on the net - haven't succeeded to far. 


The Piko demonstration is a gimmick in my mind - nobody is going to operate a switch machine under water - but it's not an invalid demonstration simply because they used distilled water.

LGB switch machines work fine outside in the rain.People run their trains in the rain and do throw switches in the rain.

One also needs to consider that there are essentially no electronics in a switch machine - a coil or two and maybe a few diodes - everything fairly high current so a bit of leakage that may play havoc with a sensitive electronic circuit has no affect on what is effectively a relay circuit.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

If you're talking uS, ie microSiemens (one-millionths of a Siemen) as in acid rain, then even distilled water has some conductivity as well. 

http://www.coleparmer.ca/techinfo/techinfo.asp?htmlfile=Conductivity.htm&ID=78 

I think we need to stay in the real world - was that Piko gimmick a valid demonstration or not, even in distilled water? 
Would it fail if rain water was used? 
In fact, would it even fail with water with some mineral content? 
Say the leakage current between exposed conductors is 1 ma - a huge number for leakage in electronics, but for a pure relay type circuit which this is, that wouldn't make any difference. 
I would be much more worried about long term corrosion due the water and that is not a factor for the number of days the fair ran.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I posted in the German Large Scale forum to see if anyone has more information/ an opinion or even facts about the Piko demo at the fair. 

What triggered my initial comment is that I have a hard time believing that a well established and I think well renowned firm like Piko would stoop to such a misleading parlour trick. 
I was initially going to write to Piko to ask them about it.....and then I started thinking.....the drive is normally going to get wet from rainwater - are there actually minerals in rainwater - if so, they're minute, rainwater is considered to be "soft" water - not identical to distilled water, but close enough for what we're trying to establish. So I feel right now that this was a valid demo - not that the LGB drive or the Böhler drive would necessarily fail that test. 

Knut


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well got my 2 switch machines today for Train-Li. The ones I can use on DCC will be hooking up Sat to my reverse loops. Can't wait to try them out. If they work out I'll be buying several more for my layout. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 03/03/2009 9:05 AM
I feel compelled to contribute some clarity to this thread since *Train-Li-USA* is the distributor of the TrainLine45 products (under the trade names ProDrive - Manual, DC, DCC / ProSwitch / ProTrack) as well as the Boehler switch drives (under the trade name MasterLine).

*A. ProDrive application*
As seen in a previous picture ProDrives a a servo based technology with a rectangular lever that allows to switch approximately points for about 11 mm. TrainLIne45 choose such a large distance because ProSwitches have precision machined points that undercut the rail-heads for a very tight fit on directional changes. The double spring system is responsible for the proper pressure against the push-rod. The purpose of the springs is to guarantee optimal functionality of the switch and not the ability to cut the switch open from reverse! TrainLine45 decided that operational security (and this way is prototypical) was more important than cutting a switch open from the opposite side. In addition the ProSwitches have a metal frog that can be powered and an optional microswitch (can be inserted into the ProDrive) can switch the polarity of that frog. In this application you can't cut the switch open from reverse without causing a a short anyhow. The top lid reaches over all 4 side walls hence preventing water from leaking in from the top. The electrical contacts are silicon sealed at the point where they transverse through the body. But it is the nature of the beast - wherever you have moving parts (push-rod) water could leak in. Mechanical precautions have been taken to minimize the effect (e.g. a little cover over the outlets of the push-rod prevents water to directly splatter in the area of the push-rod coming through the chassis). The electronic board on the inside rests on a silicon cushion and two holes allow for immediate drainage of the potential water. No drive I have seen, however, is water-resistant - only water-proof. That means ProDrives will do fine - as long as there is enough water drainage around the location where the switch is located! ProDrives will not work under water - so does nobody else's (don't get fooled by Piko's stunt on the Nuernberg toy fair where their LGB clone was operated under water - - *Distilled Water - *a nice gimmick but not real world. Distilled water has no electrical property and cannot cause any corrosion, hence you can put the drive in there and no short cirucit will occur). The ProDrive mounting is the exact spacing as known from the tie spacing from LGB. ProDrive (DC and DCC) is a slow motion drive with an adjustable speed from 1 sec. to about 4 sec.As a matter of fact the DC and DCC version is using the same electronic board and a DC drives switching speed can be reprogrammed using a DCC central station. Customers who bought DC can upgrade to DCC. An optional lantern is available as an accessory. 

*B. MasterLine applications*
MasterLine drives are much smaller in foot print size than ProDrive, but the most distinctive differences are:
- motor and gear driven mechanics
- round push-rod which traverses through the chassis via a o-ring
- one version (WA1) works in momentary applications as well due to a latching relay. In this case the motor receives permanent power on it s own leads and the toggle switch send power to the latching relay.

The MasterLine drives have been on the market for at least more than 10 years and have proven themselves reliable with more than 10,000 switching operations and come with 2 year warranty. G-scale Mad in the UK did not report problems with MasterLine drives. TrainLi (Switzerland) temporarily sold Aristocraft electric switch machines which as everybody knows render themselves useless in time (sometimes in shortest time). Stephan from TrainLi thought he had that better under control by additionally waterproofing them, but that wasn't the case. Unfortunately UK customers (potentially others as well) labeled the drive "TrainLi" (a mistake that could have tainted the otherwise excellent technical reputation of their own manufactured products - such as the dual rail bender many of you have come to love). 

The Masterline drive has an optional LGB adapter plate which increases the mechanical operational way from 7 mm (borderline for some G-scale switches) to 9 mm. I have been using MasterLine drives for several years now (and you all know how bad out conditions here in New England are), but I cover the drive for the winter and have of course proper drainage (bed of crusher fines) preventing standing water. The drive (even open the circuit boards side) is well sealed and makes it water resistant. MasterLine drives have an already build in electric switching mechanism that allows for reliable power control of a frog polarization, signal, or track power (ON/OFF for a siding). Many have come to know this feature as EPL supplementary switch in this case 1/2 of an EPL supplementary switch).

If have found that the gear driven mechanism works reliable and that my maintenance cycles on my switch are longer than compared with EPL drives. Dirt in the switch itself impacts the mobility quicker with EPL than with MasterLIne. Considering MasterLine's WA2 price of $29.95 (with 1/2 EPL supplementary switch) it is actually a bargain compared to the EPL drive (~ 2x 29.95).

MasterLine drives comes with a detailed booklet that explains many of the different operational aspects. 

*C. Masterline vs. Aristocraft slow motion machine* Personally, before I go into details, I have to say that I am extremely disappointed that Aristocraft has decided to clone excellent products, that Train-Li-USA has brought to the US market. We are a smaller firm, which has its heart in LargeScale trains and always have the best for our customers in mind. But even more disappointing is the fact that the "clone" product has in our opinion so many short comings because of the short cuts being taken or because of the much cheaper parts being used. We therefore have decided to show the differences in detail,because we cannot allow that the reputation of the MasterLine drives gets tainted by its "primitive" imitation. And last not least - *no you can't file in the US for a Patent which has prior art.* Now to the details and we have not made any modification/manipulation to the switch drives as they come right out of the retail package:

1. Inside look MasterLine[/b]











Things to notice:
thick layer gold plated printed circuit board. Brass Gear and switching mechanism. Brass bushing with rims for better fit and guidance inside the chassis mold. Delrin block on the movable rod, Delrin drive gears (those which are not in Brass) and notice the reddish coating of the motor armature wiring? This is magnetic copper wire. This coating is necessary to prevent burn through among the wires. Please consider that the motor will work in the chassis that might collect quite an amount of heat when outside in the summer. Just a clear coated wire is not sufficient in our opinion. Also compare the grease free environment of MasterLine switches.

Compare this to the Aristo drive:










*2. The lever system*









Note the single package Delrin enclosure (MasterLIne) and compare the two halve shell plastic enclosure (Aristo) that easily comes apart. You also see the difference in the bushings, the over-greased plastic gear (compare to the brass gear). Easily: When we opened the drive the cover was already lifted on one side. We can envision that due to the "forces" of the two screws and in warm operations conditions the cover may lift on its own and render the drive useless. This is very critical since the lid hols the three contacts in place which could lead to short circuits.











*3 Gold Contacts vs regular metal*

The Masterline Contacts are thickly gold coated as are their counterparts on the printed circuit baord. This is important because you don't want corrosion caused by two different metals or limited contacts. The entire electrical operation of the dirves depend on the proper and precision movement of the contacts. If you want to ensure longterm operation you can't afford anything else but gold contacts. Also take a look at the thickness and the height of the walls between the contacts, so that no mechanical force can compromise their position and potnetially render the drive useless.










and now the Aristo lid









You see that when we took the photo and placed the unit down one of the contacts slipped already out of position. Also notive on the next picture how different the PC track coating looks - not shiny at all. If that is gold (which I didn't chemically test) it is an ultr thing coating and you arelady see that the manufacturing testing left skid marks on the track (we haven't used the switch drive at all - couldn't as a matter of fact as you will see further down)










*4. Enclosure*

MasterLine drives chassis shells are held together by a rivet, therefore the two hollow stems do not offer any intrusion for water into the chassis. In addtion the two channels left my the rivet are used to securly mount the drive to a surface, e.g. we recommend the adapter plate. 

Aristo use tap screws and as you can see on the picture below someone during manufacturing tightened the screw a bit too much and already broke the chassis (palstic is also too brittle for this tpye of operation in our opinion). This can potentially welcome water into the chassis on day 1. Look for yourself.










*5. Assembly quality*
We all know that assembly quality in China and Germany differ. Above we see a crack, but that of course is already a flawed design (tapping screws vs type of plastic being used). If the drive we received is indicative of the assembly quality then you have to look at the cold solder (we bend the motor slight away from the contact so that verybody can see it). This was the root course why our motor didn't function out of the box. (See Aristo motor block below) 










*6 The lever adapter*
The lever adapter does not have the thin metal hinge pins, but uses plastic recepticels. The guide for the lever itself is very wide. Both factor can pontetial contribute to the fact that ther is less push power going to the switches pushrod.

*Conclusion:* The Aristo slow motion machine is a "clone" of the Boehler switch drive which took shortcuts and therefore it is our believe that the longterm operation is impacted and that even if the MAsterLine drive costs a few dollars more that the money ist better invested. Think of how much time it takes to mount and demount, troubleshoot if it doens't work? That is time spent doeing something else but "playing" with the layout.

This is now the third product that has been "cloned/copied" with or without modifications. I believe I have clearly demonstrated where the short commings are. What do you believe you will get on the other "cloned/copied" products - all of which we had successfully introduced into the US market to a very satisfied clientle.

As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. And everyone is free to make that decision. I am here to protect our brand - and to also clearly state that the MasterLine switch drives are different from Aristo Slow Motion drives. We needed to make this statement becaue based on our ad in the garden railway magazine we have already received technical support calls for the Aristo product - that is hilarious - to say the least.


You know where to find us if there are any further questions. As always

dedidcated to the hobby and to our customers

Axel Tillmann





*Axle,*
*All i can tell you is that ive purchased a few items from you including you railbender and it is 1st qualiy stuff unlike a certain company that has to copy others ideal to come up with products of there own.*
*The sad thing is even when they copy other peoples products, the still cant get it rite, and there product ends up being of very poor quality and operation. no surprise there, as this is there MO with most of there items anyway.... * *Keep up the good work and you will be around unlike another company in witch may be the next to go by the wayside like LGB... my opionion of course.*


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

See what happen when you go on vacation Nick. You miss all the fun stuff. Later RJD


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## Chata86 (Dec 5, 2010)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); The MasterLine slow-motion switch machine looks great. Is there a version with DCC embedded?


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes the WA1 (slightly longer was up for conversion when the Dutch company closed the business. The molds and aassembly line was ultimately acquired by Mr. Boehler again, but trying to line him up with ZIMO who had great interest to put the MX82 into the drive ultimately failed, for one the ProLine Drive was out and it was easier to work with that than with a redesign of the chassis of the WA1. (FYI the prvious pcitures showed the WA2).


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

So what is the bottom line here? Compared with LGB's turnout motors, how do the Masterline drives rate?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am not really interested in who copied who's design. 

What I want to know Who's works. 

I need a bunch for my layout. I am battery powered. 

Do any of these switch moter's work with batteries? 

What voltage? JJ


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

The Masterline switch drives work with 9V, the question now arises how do you want to control them? A switch at location, wireless receivers and what power does the wireless receiver need.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 27 Nov 2011 08:51 AM 
The Masterline switch drives work with 9V, the question now arises how do you want to control them? A switch at location, wireless receivers and what power does the wireless receiver need.

Now that I know it is a 9 volt system I will probably start off with a 9 volt battery at each switch.

Thanks for the info Axel 

JJ


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