# Rotary Snow Plow



## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

Too much snow already for the plow but of course we had to make a video.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

That, Sir, is wondrous!

Best graders

tac
www.ovgrs.org.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks neat. Snow must have been to wet. Packing if front of the roter . Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Your going to brake something if you keep that up. 
Man you must be retired to get all these things done on your RR. 
BTY 
Change that old blue plywood back drop out once and awhile..


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

The only problem there is ALL that snow is heading my way... Uggh... 'Spose I better invest in a plow.. 

Nice job Ron..


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Ron what did you use for the blower impeller.


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike it is a 4" vacuum cleaner fan


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I really enjoy seeing the blowers run, I think the best video's of Large Scale. Some day I'll get one built. Hope Hope


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Great job, Ron. At what voltage are you running the drill motor? I have one that runs with 18 and it rotates right quickly. Problem with our snow in this area is that it is generally wet and will pack the front face of the plowed area. It would work wonderfully with dry, powerdery stuff. 

Mike, I went to a vacuum repair shop and asked about an vacuum impeller. He went into the back room and brought 2 used ones out which he sold for $1 each..


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Take a look at a real rotary snow plow. The center has a cone with two or three heavy "sticks" or bars (1 inch square or more and 8 or 10 inches long) sticking out at a right-angle near the tip of the cone that break up the snow right in the center and move it toward the impeller blades. At the corners, especially the bottom two, there is a curved ramp that guides the snow to the impeller to get tossed out instead of building up against the flat face of the housing.


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Whoa, that's one serious piece of machinery!!!!!!!!! 
Dave


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Does a 4 inch dia. seem about right. Is that a common size, on the used market.


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan it is 12 volt might try 18 but battery is glued in 
Mike 4' covers the track. Have you checked out Rayman4449 web site he has dual blower that is neat to watch.


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron what was the drill u used?


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

I used a Ryobi drill a cheap one. The batteries that came with it have long neck on them so switch out with a low profile one. The body stays on when charging because i put plug to charge in back. I also put a on-off switch under it. The battery operates the llight and smoke unit plus the drill.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm........ methinks I have a project for Winter 2009!!


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for posting Ron. Snowblower videos are always cool.









Don't you hate it when they bog down like that? I guess all the conditions have to be right for us to actually get them to work. Have you had a relatively successful test with it yet?


Raymond


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm this far!!!
































I need idea's for the discharge shoot!


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice " src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/smile.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />









I like what you are using for the housing, what is that from?


Raymond


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good. You will have to cut a slot in the top, then try it out to see how it works. I tried mine out with sawdust to see how it worked but when putting it to snow needed to make slot bigger as the snow clogged up. Then just glued on piece of plastic to divert the snow from blowing straight up.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good so far. I may have to try this project. Later RJD


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## NFLDRailway (Apr 10, 2008)

I've been reviewing all the different rotary builds, on many of these sites. Most builds direct the snow to one side. I'm planning on building one of my own eventually. I think a rotary shute similar to this may be the best choice. It will allow to throw snow either left or right.

I


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

YES!!!!!
That's the ticket!!!
On it.
Thanks
Sean


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

I'm sure glad to see this build! I've watched a bunch of videos on YouTube trying to get ideas, as well as searching the 'net' looking at pics. What I find the most puzzling is the actual constuction of the blades on the full sized. They appear to be more, or less, 'V' shaped and the pics make it look as though they could change shape based on gears, levers, or centrifigal force. Though, that may be an illusion. I gathered, too, the fan could be reversed based on which direction they wanted to throw the snow. Some also appear to have a smaller set of blades in front, looking more like a true fan. I took one of the 90mm or so cooling fans out of an old computer, think those blades might work...too flexible though I think. Bill


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

We are on the right track!!


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Look out Charlie Brown... LOOK OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a model of a rotary snow plow that works well. It was built by a modeler in Czeckloslovakia.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

If I recall correctly the real snow blowers did have directional shute later RJD


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

The USA rotary plow has a functional bi-directional chute just like the diagram. There is also a switch underneath that reverses polarity and thus changes the rotation of the blade. So you can blow out on either side by changing the polarity and matching this direction with the chute.

However I wouldn't recommend plowing with the USA rotary as the motor and blades are not strong enough. I've done it in light powder, and it works a little. But I would worry about anything thicker then fresh powder. Plus you need good track power for it to continuously run. I'll be converting mine to battery power soon, but still won't be using it in anything but light powder.


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Proto powering a rotary? Looking at pic I find on the net, it appears early rotaries had a tender behind to feed a steam driven drive system. The later ones seem to be a 'bashed' B unit I presume using the diesel for power-direct drive or electric motor, I don't know. It would seem a model using an impeller would have to turn pretty high revs to essentially 'suck' the snow in. This opposed to a, more or less, paddle wheel configuration. Does the USA(?) version turn high speed, low speed or variable. Kind of hard to tell watching these YouTube vids.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

So far in the images of home made rotary snowplows I see some basic problems with getting them to work well or at all.

The "corners" of the square area of the whole thing are flat against the direction of movement and flush with the surface of the rotary part. This presents 4 triangular areas that will just bunch snow up and impede forward motion. Those areas (especially the lower corners) need to be sloped into the rotary area to push the snow aside and into the rotating blade to have it remove the snow.

The same is true for the center of the rotating blade. Real rotaries have a sharp cone there to divert the snow to the blade openings. The tip of the cone also has barbs or posts sticking out to break up and churn the snow to make it easer to push aside.

Real rotary blades are also made with tri-sectional vanes. The center radial blade is fixed and is the structural component that the other two parts hinge on to change the deflection angle. The two hinged parts are kind of like a pair of swinging doors on a central door post, but the doors are attached to each other such that when one is angled one way, the other is pulled or pushed the other way. When the fan is rotated one way one hinged "door" on the center post is pushed back by the snow it is hitting and that pulls/pushes the other door such that it digs into the snow, effectively forming a fan blade angled to pull snow into the fan. If the fan is rotated the other direction the same happens in the reverse, the section that was digging in is now being drug obliquely against the snow and that shoves it back, which pushes/pulls the opposite section to angle into the snow to dig in and now the three sections form a blade angled the other way, which again is pulling snow into the fan.

I tried to draw what it is like. The top part of the drawing shows an end view of one set of vanes forming one fan blade, to help visualize the angle of the vanes. At the bottom is a view of the cone with the breaker bars at the tip and 2 and half fan "blades" to show an example of where they are hinged. The linkage between the outer vanes of each blade is behind and so not shown.

Hope this helps.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

The new rotary looks good!

I will say that I do agree with Semper on the corners. The size of the flat surfaces I think are going to make it very hard to push from the snow bunching and cause it to stall the forward movement. I do think the corners/sides will be more of an issue than the center though. 

Those look the the Eureka blades that I'm using on mine and I can confirm that they work either way you spin them. Although one direction won't be quite as efficient.


Raymond


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

I do plan to angle the edges of the sides.
? This sounds ???
I Think it will cut the snow or push it into the area.
I'll see how much snow it pushes.
I might have to down size.
I think the chute will work.
I think as the snow comes out it will find its own way>
Rain Freezzing rain today no snow to try it.


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Thanks for the detailed explanations of the blade system. Looking at what has been done, and the drawing of the 'intake' system, I went to Lowe's today to see what I could come up with. I think I found just the item: a floor duct made of tin that goes from a 4" round duct to a rectangular duct. Nicely formed and riveted, and and metal that can be soldered. I'm thinking it can be cut off and brass 'doors' can be added. The doll house section at Hobby Lobby has butt hinges that *I think* could be bolted on with 0-80 brass bolts (Hobbits). Think, too, I might try making blades with sheet brass and brass rod. Tore an old drill apart to get the motor/chuck assembly. BTW, what is a _EUREKA_ blade mentioned?


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bill,

It looks like one of the Eureka vacuum cleaner impellers I used on my rotary. 

http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/Rotary_snow_plow.htm 











Raymond


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

All this talk of rotary plows got me thinking about those who might be wondering about the plowing ability of the USA rotary. 

Well it does plow, but in nothing but super light powder. And with track power, the blade stops spinning as soon as you loose conductivity which happens a lot on icy rails. I'm converting mine to battery power, but don't plan to actually plow with it. She'll be used more for staged photos and as a display piece.

Oh and it does not come with the tender. I had to search around to find a surplus Aristo C-16 tender for mine. So she may not be much for actual plowing, but the photos sure do look neat:


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Looks like those dudes are there for the winter! In scale terms, that blizzard would stop the full size train. Wondering if one of those is the kitchen car? Super cool pics though! Man. I gotta go get a brandy!


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## davidarf (Jan 2, 2008)

A friend sent me a link to this snow plow video clip - hope you enjoy it


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Torque or speed? Since there's some expertise on these, the question goes to design/building a working model. It seems by design, an impeller, speed is the main requirement to suck the snow in. Not sure in the various videos where the unit's stop working. I think I read where the prototypes turn at around 600rpm. The drill motor/chuck would seem to run much slower, if turning an impeller, that seems counterintuitive. I have, e.g., a 700BB motor which would turn an impeller quite fast, or a drill motor/chuck which could handle a fairly heavy set of brass blades relatively slow. For instance, the USA(?) made model: what kind of motor, blade construction(plastic?), rpms'?


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## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Torque or speed? Well both really, speed will assist BUT when the plow stops due to depth/weight of snow that the plow is working through, that is when torque is needed. 

Torque keeps it going when it is hard to move it, that needs (in models) multi pole motors, to provide the power or torque to keep the blade spinning aginst an increasing load (of snow) 

The 'speed' assists at the start of the run but eventually it wiill be the torque that keeps it going, till that is also exceeded by the stiffness of the snow. That is why powder snow (frozen flakes, not sticking together) is easy to deal with. The wet sticky stuff is all locked together and boy is it strong in that form. 

With the steam plows that is why the engines at the rear looked aafter the shoving, and the plow which is in effect a loco but everything (no power ever to the wheels) so is only for spinning the blade then does its share of the work. Don't forget that asteam engine boiler can for short periods be 'mortgaged' to give more power. Till it runs into such stiff or wet snow that it needs to withdraw, and dash at it (speed) again, when the boiler has been filled, and heated back up. 

The slopes on the corners reduce the tendency of snow to stick, thus get it to the blades, to throw it out. Wet snow will be even faster to stick in corners. 

Do diesel plows have turbochargers I wonder - with the revs kept up, the torque will follow it, aided by turbochargers? Low speed on a diesel = low torque.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The big rotary snow plows don't need high rotational speed to get the snow moving fast enough to get it out of the way. That is because the "fan" is on the order of 9 to 11 feet in diameter. At the end of a 10-ft diameter (31-ft circumference) fan moving at 120 RPM the velocity is 3270-feet per minute. To get that velocity with a 3.75-inch diameter fan (10-ft @ 1:32 scale) (0.98-ft circumference) it has to turn at 3840 RPM (32 times faster).

The odd thing is that if the 1:1 plow could throw the snow, say 32-ft, then the 1:32 scale plow rotating at 32 times the speed will throw the snow just about 1-ft (1/32nds of the distance 1:1 plow could do). The reason is because the "snow" did not get scaled and so represents a mass that is 32 times more.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I heard that Charles Ro wanted to make the USA rotary capable of throwing snow, but his liability insurance folks said no, too much chance of somebody getting hurt sticking their fingers in the blades, so a weaker motor was used instead.


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

Interesting, to me, that we're getting some math to aid in the design process! Some years ago, I was interested in the building of miniature gas turbine engines for R/C airplanes. Compressor design was a big issue, finally resolved by using the compressor wheels from auto superchargers. To work though, these turbine engines are turning at 100,000+ rpms! First, I guess, 'scale' snow would best be duplicated using tiny styrofoam, or similar-like 'Micro-baloons'-that stuff you mix with epoxy. If I'm interpreting the math properly, using the vacuum cleaner fan would work best at very high rpm's. So, moving 'non-scale' massive snow flakes, which concept is best? High speed 'suck and blow', or a wheel more like a paddle wheel/windmill, to grab and shovel, or push it out? The other question is the location of the discharge 'shute' to the face of the wheel, I can't tell from any of the pics,videos where this should be. Looking at the 'wheel' on the 1:1, I can't tell if there are other blades, paddles, etc. behind the wheel to help push or blow the snow out. It's at least a fun exercise trying to build a 'working' piece of rolling stock!


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

After Charlie talked to the peanut gallerie, we rebuilt the front chute.

Some angle stock was added to give it the funnell look!

I"ve heard of rivett counters, are there's screw counters , I hope not !!!


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## RonTeten (Feb 15, 2008)

Great Vidio!!


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Gee Ron posted something! Good thing I'm sitting down!!


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a video that shows the ex SP rotary plow over Donner Summit. As was mentioned before, it is made of a B nit. The traction motors are connected to the blade's main shaft.


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Jerry I caught that too. He posted twice in one day must going to be blizzard back there, watch out.


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