# Usa new products



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Has any one posted that USA has announced a die cast Northern and a line of Heavyweights.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Got the email from Charles Ro yesterday.

Have not found on USAT site or Charles Ro site yet.

Really want to know minimum track radius for the northern.

Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Its been all over the facebook groups. In fact, I saw it so many times this morning I didnt even notice it wasnt posted here until this thread.

Scot


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder if they are the old Aristo heavyweights??

Charles Ro have also just received a new batch of the streamline coaches. My NYC baggage is finally on the way.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, I doubt it, if you read the features "document" you will see they are different.

1. length 33.5" (makes them scale 80', Aristo are 72')
2. die cast "cushioned" coupler (like the streamliners)
3. rubber diaphragms (Aristo were hard plastic)
4. coupler lift bar, air hoses
5. lighted drum head on observation car, illuminated markers, and METAL railings
6. die cast metal trucks
7. fold down vestibule step

Those particular features convince me that these are all new.

Greg 1,220


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## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Sadly way out of reach price wise for most consumers, was really hoping for something new at about half the price they are asking for these.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Vinny D said:


> Sadly way out of reach price wise for most consumers, was really hoping for something new at about half the price they are asking for these.


Half? even that is crazy-expensive for the majority of G-scalers im sure..
more like 10% for me, before we even approach reality.










Scot


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

That's lottery money to me. I gave up playing the lottery a long time ago. So, I'll just have to be happy running my 2-4-0 LGB Steamers.


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## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Scottychaos said:


> Half? even that is crazy-expensive for the majority of G-scalers im sure..
> more like 10% for me, before we even approach reality.
> 
> Scot


I hear ya! But I knew what ever they were going to produce it was going to be die cast and in the prestige series. Was just hoping it would be somewhat in reach so I could get something new from them, guess I will keep waiting.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Scot, $370 for a die cast northern?

$1200 list on Bachman NG plastic locos..

Aristo Craft was never that cheap LIST price.

The heavyweights are a reasonable price, will be buying a complete set, even though my Aristo heavyweights are 72' long, still have always wanted the full 80 footers.

My Aristo set will be going up for sale now.

Greg 1,219


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Where do I find the information on these?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

http://www.charlesro.com/usa_newreleaes1.html


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Scot, $370 for a die cast northern?


I didnt mean $370 for a die cast Northern specifically..
sure, a die cast Northern is going to be multi-thousands of dollars..no problem.
I just meant $370 in general, for any locomotive, diesel, steam, whatever, before i'm a buyer.
and even that is still high..im more of a $250 buyer. 
but to each their own..

Scot


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Release April 2018. We'll see.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> My Aristo set will be going up for sale now.


"Now" ? When the new ones aren't "due" until April 2018? And if you believe they will come on that date, you haven't been paying attention for the past 10 years.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> sure, a die cast Northern is going to be multi-thousands of dollars..no problem.


I wonder if this is another USA Trains list vs dealer price. The streamline coaches are $499 on USATrains.com, but $299 at Charles Ro. The SD70MAC is $729 list but $434 at Charles Ro. On that basis, the Northern should list for about $2,250. That seems reasonable, as the Hudson was $1995. 

The flaw in that argument is that the flyer lists the heavyweight coaches for $299, which is about where the streamliners sit. Can't believe they will sell at Charles Ro for $176 !!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, Scot, I get that you want to buy a locomotive for $350 or $250... good for you.

Having that expectation of a model of this quality (based on the USAT Hudson and Big Boy) is not realistic, so you will never buy a locomotive like this. In fact you won't buy much of anything new, right? No offense, I just don't see why you would even post something like that. Are you mad at the industry?

On the other hand, yes, this is an expensive loco, a plastic one of lesser quality though would still be most likely around $1,400 list, comparing it to Bachmann and the last list price of the last Aristo steamer, the Consolidation.

My guess is that the street price will be lower, but this will never be an inexpensive loco. 

Pete: I surely hope that the street price of the Northern comes down in the low two thousand land... but, owing to the scarcity, and the, well, coolness, I will most likely buy one no matter what.

And yes, I'll probably sell my Aristo heavyweight fleet now, since there is NO alternative now... I would suspect they will be worth less when the USAT ones get into stock... remember buy low, sell high!

Greg


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thanks for posting this announcement. I used to get the USA Trains emails. I guess I need to re-subscribe. I'm looking forward to getting a set of the SP Heavyweights in Pullman Green. I've never been disappointed with USA Trains products (I just wish they'd ditch 1:29 for 1:32). I've never been a fan of Aristocraft. The quality of their stuff seemed to range from mediocre to downright poor. No Aristocraft product ever made it into my fleet without some time on the bench first. Even if all the used Aristo heavyweights drop in price, they're not worth my time.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So you won't be buying my used Aristo HWs? 

To be fair, I don't think I have ANYTHING large scale that did not need some tweaking. 

Yep, I definitely have more pages on how to correct stuff in Aristo than for USAT.

Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

USA discounts the Die Cast locomotives very little to dealers, don't look for much of a price difference on these locomotives. I don't recall USA making false promises on delivery dates as others have done.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, I inadvertently was mailed the "dealer net" info, I was surprised at the low margin.

Greg


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

$3800us /5200cdn msrp 

I'll drool, but leave it for the ones who can afford to acquire and enjoy !


doug c


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Good to finally see some new product announcements at least. It would be nice to see a CN roadname.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Paul Burch said:


> Release April 2018. We'll see.


Where do you see the April 2018 release date?

Is that for both the loco and the heavyweights or just one of them?

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Very nice that USA Trains picked up some of the LGB steam loco features like the start up delay circuit and cylinder steam.

I wonder if dealers received more info about the loco that what is in the ad - like the minimum radius that loco can negotiate. I would think that is a pretty important parameter for many.
I also assume the loco comes with one motor, not two, it doesn't have a lit firebox like other USAT steamers and it's not clear to me how one blows the whistle (to get whistle smoke) in the standard analog mode.
And what does "DCC ready" mean? Not any standard DCC interface I assume - just the track and motor connectors brought out separately???
It's a term many Large Scale manufacturers use without any details what they really mean.

It's also great that USA Trains offers a complete set of heavyweights all at once rather than the dribble of a car one year and another car for the set in the following years. I can just picture a consist of heavyweights high-balling down the grade - that would make a beautiful sight!

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, getting bids on the sets from Robby and Mike... I'm buying a set of 10 for sure, selling the Aristo, which look pretty good, but still a bit short.

Greg 1,217


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

Definitely aimed at the top end market. The average model railroader won't be able to afford this latest product, or have a railroad that can handle the stuff, except just Roundy Roundy......or great for the collector market, if it still exists....true shelf princesses.....looks great, but ....... one complaint that the distributor network always complained about, is RO's small margin they offer.....dealers have a hard time moving the stuff, so few can afford much inventory, if any....the downfall of the old local hobby shop......


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Minimum radius is on page referenced in post #12


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Minimum radius is on page referenced in post #12


The 8ft diameter listed is for the cars not necessarily the loco.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Whoops, you are right, was reading "down" and did not realize I slid into the passenger car specs, thanks Knut

Greg 1,215


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

krs said:


> Very nice that USA Trains picked up some of the LGB steam loco features like the start up delay circuit and cylinder steam.
> 
> I wonder if dealers received more info about the loco that what is in the ad - like the minimum radius that loco can negotiate. I would think that is a pretty important parameter for many.
> I also assume the loco comes with one motor, not two, it doesn't have a lit firebox like other USAT steamers and it's not clear to me how one blows the whistle (to get whistle smoke) in the standard analog mode.
> ...


We have no further details at this time.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Most definitions of DCC ready indicate that the track pickups and the motor inputs and the lighting can be easily connected to a decoder.

Usually screw terminals. We can look at the prior examples from USAT Prestige series for at least an educated guess.

Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*Centipede wheeled tender & Track Dia.*



krs said:


> The 8ft diameter listed is for the cars not necessarily the loco.


I suspect the centipede wheeled tender will likely dictate the minimum operating track diameter more so than the boiler part of the loco.

-Ted


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Ted, Do you know what the BB tender will take for a curve.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*USAT FEF Loco Operational Curves Not Specified!*

No, I don't know what the minimum curve for the tender is since neither the boiler section nor tender is yet to be specified. 

The tender's bearing types should not affect the curve operation; however its centipede wheel arrangement likely would; anyway, bearing types are not specified according to its feature list:

"FEF-3 Tender Features:
Highly detailed die-cast metal construction
Operating backup light on tender 
Illuminated marker lights
Separately cast metal detail parts
Opening hatches
Metal handrails
Sprung die-cast metal sideframes
Metal Wheels"

-Ted


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

The question of radius came up on GScaleTrainForum.com a couple months ago, and based on the Big Boy tender I think it's safe to assume 16 ft+ diameter will be required. I took a video of attempting to push my Big Boy tender around a section of my railroad that is exactly 10 ft diameter (the only sectional track I have) and (spoiler alert) it doesn't come close to working:


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I heard somewhere that the BB will actually take a tighter curve than the tender itself.

Greg 1,199


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I would be really surprised if USA Trains doesn't design that loco and tender to be able to manouver an 8ft diameter curve.
8 ft diameter is roughly the same as the 1200 mm radius curve that was the largest LGB made for many years - requiring a larger radius than that would severely restrict sales and I know Charlie is a businessman - he is not building this loco for the love of the hobby.

The USAT Big Boy is really in a totally different category, it's also the only USAT loco that requires larger than 8ft diameter curves.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Knut, I think it would be wise to compare this loco to the USAT Hudson, and then "adjust up" for the longer wheelbase and tender being a centipede.

From their 2012 catalog:

BB 16' approx diameter (I've had this verified as 16.5' from several people)
Hudson 8' diameter (most people say much better on 10' dia)
GG-1 8' diameter (more sensitive to unlevel track)


So, I think it would be great if they "hit" 8' diameter, but with the longer wheelbase and the tender, I think we'll be lucky with 10'.

But time will tell... Charlie is indeed a businessman, but he made AND sold 2 runs of the BB and the Hudson, so what's different? In other words, he's making a high end loco for a smaller crowd and the quality and attention to detail are first, and running on smaller layouts is a lower priority.

If this logomotive follows suit, the loco will have one gear driven axle, and the rest of the axles will be driven by the side rods, thus there can be very little side to side play in the drivers to accommodate sharp curves, so the only answer would be 2 center blind drivers in my opinion.

Greg 1,197


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*A Centipede Tender with Flangeless Wheels!*

As to the centipede tender to work on 10 foot diameter curves, I wonder if a few of its interim axles' wheels could be made flangeless?

-Ted


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg -

You make some very good points - but also consider that the Large Scale market has shrunk significantly, specially in North America.

To amortize the development costs and the tooling Charlie will have to sell quite a few of these locos and their price isn't exactly pocket change.
Even a few people in Europe who I spoken to - and who have pretty deep pockets - were taken aback by the price point.

I really hope this loco will be a huge success for USA Trains - as to the minimum diameter the loco will negotiate - I guess we will have to wait until USA Trains will let us know.
I find it's a bit hard to pre-order one, which Charles Ro obviously wants - if the minimum diameter the loco will negotiate is not specified.

What about people on this forum (or other Large Scale forums) who are interested in purchasing this beauty - do they all have 16 ft diameter curves minimum?

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, the market has shrunk, and it's taken longer for USAT to make new stuff, but we can only guess about development costs, perhaps they are much lower because the market has shrunk and Kader is thirsting for work. We don't know. Speculation mode off..

We all hope they will be a big success, and I will make a prediction: there's enough people out there with money enough to buy out the first run, no matter what the minimum radius is... period...

So let's see what happens, most likely it will be a year until we see them, but I know several people who have pre-ordered.

The people on this forum aren't necessarily an accurate cross section of the market, we are just the most vocal, in fact I don't think ANYONE would accuse us of being "average" in any sense 

Greg 1,196


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Accucraft sells a lot of locomotives for this price point and higher. Aster sold out of their FEF-3 for a lot more money. All of these large prototypical locomotive require larger curves. Why is it unreasonable for USA Trains to expect to sell a bigger locomotive with similar detail for this price point, and require 16 ft+ curves? Also keep in mind that a lot of people are going to buy them for display, not to run. With a popular prototype they don't have to make it only to run. 

As for the tender, why would they put money into redeveloping a UP centipede tender when they already have one? I'm sure this will be a re-issue of the Big Boy tender, with a new locomotive.

I'm not happy about the price either--I was hoping for $1000 less--but it's not surprising or unrealistic either. But if I'm wrong and they don't sell, then we can buy them on clearance.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Yeah,

LGB just announced a new Swiss RhB electric loco at a price of 1800 Euros which is about 600 Euros more than that same model in a different livery.
The higher price was because the loco is chrome-plated like the prototype and chrome-plating on plastic is apparently time consuming and tricky.

Anyway, people on German forums moaned and groaned about the price but the announced limited production run of 333 units was sold out in less than a week.
LGB then bumped the production run up to 399 - that lasted two days before every unit was sold again.

Knut


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Yes, the market has shrunk, and it's taken longer for USAT to make new stuff, but we can only guess about development costs, perhaps they are much lower because the market has shrunk and Kader is thirsting for work. We don't know. Speculation mode off..
> Greg 1,196


Reason for the USAT slowdown of new product is Kader booted the line few years back and Ro had to find a different manufacturer. Some of the molds got lost/ damaged in the transition.

This was posted on the USAT G Scale Group Facebook Pake March 24, 2017...



> USAT G Scale Group
> March 24 ·
> A Chat with Charlie Ro Sr
> I had a chance to talk to Charlie and mention people in the G Scale Hobby are looking to USA Trains to continue the G Scale product line with new trains in the Ultimate Series. .....So What Happened?
> ...


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## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Benshell; New tender for FEF-3, It is an oil Burner which is not the coal burner of the Big Boy. Assume they will use same underbody and other detail parts, so some cost saving there. Also same reason there will be no "ash Tray Glow" 

Talked with Charlie Jr and Roc at Gold Coast this last weekend. Yes the reason USA hasn't been producing 1/29 items is switching MFG in China and moving molds ect. That coupled w/ recession could have been good timing for USA. I for one, ordered the 4-8-4 Northern and the Heavy's. I figure you vote w/ your dollars, and if you don't support your hobby it won't be there to enjoy. I'd would have prefered a 4-8-4 Daylight/Warbaby GS-4, and hope it's next from USA as they now have a close gearbox. 

USA makes great product, so I feel it's worth the investment.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well for the price of the loco Looks like I will buy a LS before I'd by the sparkie. I find a little more pleasure now working with LS. I may look at the heavy weights but as usual they never make my road name except if I read right I can just by the Pullman cars. Later RJD


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

Esppe Pete said:


> Benshell; New tender for FEF-3, It is an oil Burner which is not the coal burner of the Big Boy. Assume they will use same underbody and other detail parts, so some cost saving there. Also same reason there will be no "ash Tray Glow"
> 
> Talked with Charlie Jr and Roc at Gold Coast this last weekend. Yes the reason USA hasn't been producing 1/29 items is switching MFG in China and moving molds ect. That coupled w/ recession could have been good timing for USA. I for one, ordered the 4-8-4 Northern and the Heavy's. I figure you vote w/ your dollars, and if you don't support your hobby it won't be there to enjoy. I'd would have prefered a 4-8-4 Daylight/Warbaby GS-4, and hope it's next from USA as they now have a close gearbox.
> 
> USA makes great product, so I feel it's worth the investment.


Good call, I'd forgotten that the FEF-3 is an oil burner.

I agree that we need to vote with our wallet, and I will probably order both new products as well. I'd prefer a GS-4 too, but I have two GS-4s on order from MTH as I've given up on waiting for USA Trains. Still, I'd probably sell them (and the Accucraft Daylight cars I bought last year) for a USA Trains version.


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