# Precision Scale Co testing the waters in 1:20.3



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Precision Scale Co, well known for their imports of HO and O scale brass models, has indicated they will produce the NP 0-4-0T+T "Minnetonka" in 1:20.3 scale (and O and HO), if they get enough reservations through their dealers. Here's a couple of links:

*Precision Scale Co "Minnetonka" page*

*Prototype Photo of 'Minnetonka'*

Unfortunately, being used to the HO, HOn3 and On3 scales, they missed the fact that 1:20.3 ("F" scale to you and me) has almost no-one modelling standard gauge, which this loco was/is. Amost all of the models offered in 1:20.3 are all 3' narrow gauge, which we call Fn3. 

So, being a nice guy (and a pain-in-the-a** stickler for details) I called them up and asked them to clarify their website, pointing out that they were unlikely to get much interest in a standard gauge model for 71mm track. (They could produce it in 1:32 scale, which would be correct.)

It's a shame they got started in F scale without realizing what a mess the scale/gauge issue can be. While I think it would make a very pretty model in Fn3, it would have to be squashed down below to make the gauge work. Porter made a bunch of 3' gauge locos, so an accurate prototype could have been picked.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Electric or LS?  

Chas


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark at PSC emailed me back and confirmed it is Fn3, 45mm gauge. I suggested he make it clear on the website also. 

I assume the dealers set the final price? Anyone have a friendly dealer who knows the $$ ? 

Electric or LS? 


Chas, I don't think PSC ever did anything in LS, so I assume it is electric. Let's ask that friendly dealer?


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

from this thread:
http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=11139 
_*"Here is an update from PSC "No delivery date yet... Est. MSPR $2,285"*_

sry, count me out....bummer!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 04/23/2009 8:15 AM
Unfortunately, being used to the HO, HOn3 and On3 scales, they missed the fact that 1:20.3 ("F" scale to you and me) has almost no-one modelling standard gauge, which this loco was/is. Amost all of the models offered in 1:20.3 are all 3' narrow gauge, which we call Fn3. 

So, being a nice guy (and a pain-in-the-a** stickler for details) I called them up and asked them to clarify their website, pointing out that they were unlikely to get much interest in a standard gauge model for 71mm track. (They could produce it in 1:32 scale, which would be correct.)

It's a shame they got started in F scale without realizing what a mess the scale/gauge issue can be. While I think it would make a very pretty model in Fn3, it would have to be squashed down below to make the gauge work. Porter made a bunch of 3' gauge locos, so an accurate prototype could have been picked.





They used to make the G-scale stuff in 1:24 (a beautiful Shay at that). Is that really any better?


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

"Subject: Precision Scale Co testing the waters in 1:20.3"
Wrong again Pete... if you had read the REST of the 1:20.me article you'd have known that. PSC already did 1:20 including the Caboose.









For everyone else that would like to see the original article, and not the plagiarized version, just go the the 1.20 site.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By c nelson on 04/23/2009 11:57 AM
from this thread:
http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=11139 
_*"Here is an update from PSC "No delivery date yet... Est. MSPR $2,285"*_

sry, count me out....bummer! 



*I've seen the detail on there other production for a long time and ya there price is in reson when you get down to the nuts and bolts..*

*They don't leave anything out. I watched them make parts for there Eng' s and know Mark and Beth for a long time now. Good people.. *

*Hope they get more & more parts into our Garden Scale"s of 1/32, 1/29 and 120.5 *

*Noel*


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Wrong again Pete


I subscribe to the One-20point3 group on Yahoo, where Dave posted the info before Durango Dan got around to it. There was no _*'rest'*_ of the article to read. 

MSPR $2,285 


Hopefully the street price will be a lot less. There is quite a selection of brass locos for


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

I don't care if you are wrong or right Pete as long as you are correct ! 
Thanks for the post. 

Andrew


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

When Pete was referring to LS I think he means Live Steam not that they didnt do largescale since that was the question he was replying to and if you read on the post it says I assume electric......

I also researched the little loco and it was a standard gauge loco. Thus building in 20.3 would be the wrong scale. 1:32 would be correct but tiny. its a neat loco but personally do not run electrics.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Actually I tried to research, can somebody help me out?

The engine was it running on 2' or 3' track? 

I ofund this picture of the engine next to a standard gauge diesel. 










If I compare the size difference with the size difference of European Standard Gauge to European Narrow Gauge (1m ~ 3') then I am inclined to guess it is a 2' engine. In that case should that run scale correct on O-scale track (32mm) if you would run true to scale 3' on 45mm which would make this engine 1:20.3?

The whole scale got really muddy for those who care. LGB's creative stretching and shrinking (G=Gummi {German for Rubber}) created a size to which others incorrectly wanted to cater too as well and Aristo and USA create this non-existing scale 1:29 for their standard guage rollng stock which correctly taken shoudl only be 1:32. Now you ar eoff to the races of mixing everything. I think the engine is cute. And the "mixers" (=any scale on 45mm goes) will have fun.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel, the prototype is a standard gauge engine


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

I agree, It is a standard gauge locomotive. In the photograph, the locomotive was displayed at the 1949 Chicago Railroad Fair. A feature of the fair was a pageant called "Wheel-a-Rolling", ( sort of an air show for trains, if you will ) which is referred to in the caption of the image. Locomotives and trains from all over the continent were on display and operating, even D&RGW #268. The juxtaposition of the Minnetonka and the F7 was, like the pageant, staged.

cheers


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

But why would Precision Scale then call it Fn3?

As a standard guage engine it should be 1:32 to correct to scale on 45mm track, if it would USA/Aristo size compatable maybe 1:29 and should still dwarf next to an F7, but what I understand is was blown up to 1:20.3 which then if done proportinally right would have the engine hadn quite a bit over the wheels? Am I missing something?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Axel 

The caption in the photo says that the Minnetonka, built in 1870; is 27.5 ft long and 10 ft 2 in tall. That is MUCH SMALLER than an F unit. The steamer is absolutely standard gauge; 1435mm for you metric people, 56.5 inches for the rest of us. I predict incredibly POOR sales if PSC builds this in 1:20.3 on 45mm track. If produced that way, it will be a model of absolutely nothing that exists. The words "Precision" and "Scale" in the company name weill be JOKES. 

In the early and mid 1980s PSC did 1:24 scale 3ft gauge D&RGW box cars, frameless and narrow frame tank cars, a K-27 and at least two different West Side Shays. Many folks thought that 1:24r would take off using 1.5 in gauge track, but no one took the initiative to produce the track and the momentum was lost. During the same time period, PSC produced in 1:32 scale standard gauge brass, a single dome tank car, general service drop bottom gon, 40 ft box car, and wood shethed reefer, and an SP C-30-1 caboose. 

The only 1:20.3 PSC models I recall are the two D&RGW long cabooses. 

This particular choice needs some serious reconsideration. 

Regards


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel, Vic, Pete, Rivet et al-

While the Minnetonka itself was one of three _Smith and _Porter locomotives of the same design for NP alone, Smith and Porter, Porter and Bell and Porter were builders of catalog locomotives.

There were similar B-S design locomotives of the same/similar cylinder and driver size in gauges from 36-56.5" gauge locos (including a lot in the popular of the era 42" gauge) around up to the mid 1870s.

So yes, not correct for Minnetonka, but should be a nice enough unit if painted in black it could serve as a good _catalog _locomotive?

....but do not hold your breath for anything from PSC. A was part of a stillborn HO project (research end) back in the 1990s....looked at a lot of slides and photos and took a lot of notes for nothing, zilch, nada.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Jim:

While our hobby has also buyers that just run anything on their tracks and enjoy it, I believe a manufacturer is always well advised to build it to the correct scale. The modellers will then like it and the mix and match buyers as well. I think this would be a bigger market. And if your company name is Precision Scale, I believe it is even more important to be true to scale - otherwise what are you precise on?

As in general, it is a pitty







that gauge II didn't really take off here in the US. The is a gauge II (fitting the euro narrow gauge IIm) community in Germany - of course a lot of stuff scratch build, but if the US would have developped as a market then Aristo and USA Trains would make their standard gauge items now for 64mm track and the scale would be 1:22.5. But I would have also been very happy if LGB would have done narrow gauge on bascially O track and that would have been then gauge Im, and then all the standard gauge stuff would have fit on 45 mm track and all would be correctly 1:32 scale.







. There is so much opportuntiy (I see this in HO layouts) to have the main line meet the narrow gauge line.

Oh well.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

a manufacturer is always well advised 


Axel, 

I did email PSC when they announced it (and got a polite reply) suggesting that an incorrect scale/gauge wouldn't please the rivet counters, and that there were many other similar Porters that were produced in 3' gauge. 

They can't say we didn't tell them.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Shouldnt be too hard to bash one out of an LGB Porter


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Shouldnt be too hard to bash one out of an LGB Porter 


////I like the way your thinking.

While our hobby has also buyers that just run anything on their tracks. 


////So the people that spend the most, least care about scale fidelity ? 

Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Paradise on 06/08/2009 8:26 PM


Shouldnt be too hard to bash one out of an LGB Porter 


////I like the way your thinking.

While our hobby has also buyers that just run anything on their tracks. 


////So the people that spend the most, least care about scale fidelity ? 

Andrew



Maybe I will bash one out of my last Porter, but I have this one planned ahead of it


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