# Difference in Aristo craft locomotives



## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Greetings! We are just getting into G scale and purchased two Aristo Craft NY Central LARGE locomotives, diesel I think (no tall smoke stacks). In searching the web, I see there are E-8, Dash-9, GP 40 and SD 45 types. What on earth are the differences?? I also cannot find our locomotive listed anywhere, and was wondering when it was made. I have tried searching the history of Aristo but came up empty. Help would be MUCH appreciated!!! Denning251


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

E-8s were made by Aristo in NYC. No GP-40s or D-9s or SD-45s were made in NYC paint schemes. 

USA Trains has plenty of NYC paint jobs, F-3s, NW-2s, S-4"s GP-38s, GP-30's PA"s so much more to buy and still available.

Check them out on there web site. They also have pictures.

Jethro


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Denning, first of all welcome to the Forum!! I hope you have many enjoyable experiences with your new railroad too.

If you go to http://www.aristocraft.com/, and click on the tab marked "uncataloged db" it lists all of the different locomotives that Aristocaft has manufactured along with the various railroads and sometimes the manufacture date. It is a pretty complete listing with photos of most of the engines. I think you will get most of what you are looking for there.

Ed


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Denning, welcome to the forum! 

asking "what is the difference" is sort of like asking what is the difference between a Model T, a 1965 Mustang and a 2005 Cadillac..
they have many similarities (4 wheels and an engine) but also HUGE differences! 

Sounds like you have the E8, does it look like this?
Aristocraft NYC E8 

If so, you have a model of a New York Central railroad EMD E8 diesel locomotive.
EMD is the manufacturer of the prototype locomotive (Aristocraft is the manufacturer of the model locomotive)
EMD stands for the Electro-Motive Division of General Motors, one of the larger manufacturers of diesel locomotives.
The prototype of your locomotive was made around 1950.

E-units (there were several different kinds) were passenger locomotives, they primarily hauled passenger trains mainly in the 1940's, 50's and 60's..
Although some could be found hauling freight trains after they were retired from passenger trains..So having an E-unit haul freight
is technically prototypically correct, but they were designed and built to be passenger engines..
They are called "cab units" and have the streamlined enclosed body..

The other locomotives you listed are later Freight locomotives..differences include number of wheels, size and shape of carbody,
horsepower/engine size, intended use, different manufacturers, and different eras..

There are hundreds of diesel locomotives types from the last 90 years..
Diesels existed by the 1920's, but they didnt exist in large numbers until the 1940's..
and the 1950's was the "transition era" between steam and diesel locomotives..
During WWII, Steam was still the majority motive power..by 1960, steam was almost extinct, and the diesels had replaced them.

Your E-unit is called a "first generation" diesel, because it was one of the locomotive models that replaced steam.

Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's a couple of questions here:

"Greetings! We are just getting into G scale and purchased two Aristo Craft NY Central LARGE locomotives, diesel I think (no tall smoke stacks). In searching the web, I see there are E-8, Dash-9, GP 40 and SD 45 types. What on earth are the differences?? I also cannot find our locomotive listed anywhere, and was wondering when it was made. I have tried searching the history of Aristo but came up empty. Help would be MUCH appreciated!!! Denning251"

The first question is what are the differences, the second is to ask to identify 2 locomotives he already purchased.

Yes, start with the online database that was offered, or go to a dealer's site that has pictures.

Here's a dealer's site that has pictures: *http://rldhobbies.com/lo...trong>**

If nothing else look on the loco and get some identifying markings and post here.

Greg*


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Greetings and welcome to this hobby of Model Trains, The G Division. 
Most of us have previous or concurrent experience with other scales and have been 'playing trains' for a long time. 

Basic Primer; 
Steam locomotives had fires that heated water and made steam in a pressure holding boiler and used the property of steam of 'energy as it expands' to make motion to run the loco. Steam was fed to the cylinders and by valves made pistons in the cylinders travel forwards and backwards, Side rods connected that power to the wheels. Thus MOST steam locos have side rods, there are exceptions. 
Diesels have internal combustion motors that power electrical generators/ alternators to make electricity, that power is used to power electrical motors hung on the axles they power. 
As explained above similar to Auto models or trucks or busses, there are different power and weight needs for different chores. Passenger trains wanted speed and freights wanted pulling power. Your E8s were premier passenger locos, built for speed to rush passengers between New York City and Chicago and back. Drag freights made money on tonnage and were geared low to pull as much as feasible at 10 mph on a coal drag or up to 30 -40 mph on a local freight way back then. As materials improved RRs ran faster and bigger and the variety of models reflects both need and time. So on our Railroads we may run a 1940s loco with a 2000 model! But 
It's your Railroad and we encourage you to run what you want. 
Welcome, ask anything. 
Happy Rails 
John


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

Dening 251:

I checked the Aristo-Craft uncatalogued data base. From 2001 to present, Aristo-Craft has only manufactured four (4) NYC Diesel Locomotives. They are the following:

1. ALCO FA-1 & FB-1 cab units in gray lightning stripe ART 22001 & ART 20051

2. ALCO RS-3 hood unit in black lightning stripe ART 22219 Two road numbers 8223, 8320

3. GE U-25-B hood unit in gray lightning stripe ART 22112

4. EMD E-8-A cab unit in gray lightning stripe ART 23611 Two road numbers 4067, 4068

The largest to smallest in order are E-8-A, U-25-B, FA-1 & FB-1 then RS-3. The lengths are respectively 28 inches, 23 inches, 21 inches and 20 inches. The FA-1 & FB-1, RS-3 and U-25-B were freight units. The RS-3 was used in passenger service when other units were not available and service requirements dictated. The E-8-A was a passenger engine for high speed long distance passenger trains. After 1960 the E-8-A was occasionally used in freight and express service. The freight service for the E-8-A was pulling TOFC trains of perishables and mail/express on passenger train schedules.

USA Trains also have made NYC Diesel Engines but not the same classes. However, your description suggests Aristo-Craft products.

I hope that this information helps you in your understanding of your purchases.

Respectfully,

NYC Buff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Did they come in a box with a stock number? It should look like ART-xxxxxxx. If you have that number, let is know it and we can be of further help. Chuck


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

WOW! Thank you so much! Scottychaos nailed it--we have an Aristocraft NYC E8. We bought it because I saw it at a train shop and thought it was beautiful, and had NO idea what it was. So, does this mean I should be looking for cars that are E 8's to go with it? Are E-8's still made? And thank you to Brakeman who said to go to Aristocraft and choose db, which I finally figured out meant data base! We really appreciate all the responses and feel a LITTLE less underwater than we did! Denning251


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ok all, I went to the db at Aristocraft and from that, as well as reading your posts, I am thinking that this style of E 8 is NOT made any more, is that correct? As I am a bit of a purist, this must mean I need to look for E 8 passenger cars made by Aristocraft of the same vintage if I want the set correct, yes? hoo boy, I was not expecting all this! Thank you all very much! Denning251


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

E8 is the style of engine only. Most cars on the USATRAINS and Aristocraft web sites are suitable for that engine to pull. Only some of the modern auto and grain carriers would not have been pulled by your engine in its hayday. There are a lot of cars out there to choose from. HAVE FUN. And remember it your railroad run what you like. Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rgvrrm/4114435772/in/set-72157622827592816/ 

The above will show you a builder's photo of a typical car behind your Loco.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Passenger cars in the twentieth century 

Early in the century they were all wood, and averaged maybe 50 feet long, though some got longer. By the 1920s, they were being replaced by "heavyweight" cars, which were typically about 80 feet long and made of steel with concrete floors. They usually had "clerestory" roofs. Aristo makes a heavyweight passenger car that makes for a pretty good model. 

By the 1940s, heavyweights were beginning to be replaced by lighter cars made with a lof of aluminum, with modern roofs. These are sometimes called "streamline" cars. 

Typically RR passenger service had some named trains, fancy, long distance or express runs. These trains would get the newest cars. Suburban lines, commuter lines, local trains used older equipment. You could still see heavyweights on the tracks into the 1950s. 


So if you are imagining a fancy express run, you would want cars like in the picture totalwrecker linked to. If you are imagining local or branchline service, you might use heavyweights. An E8 would be unlikely to ever pull wooden coaches, though wooden coaches were still in use into the 1940s. 

So if you want to be accurate, you could consider what kind of train service you are representing. Or you could just do whatever you like!


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

And now we need to introduce Denning to the exciting world of scale and gauge!  

Denning, 
If you want to get accurate passenger cars for your E-units, you want to make sure you are looking at "Standard Gauge" cars in 1/29 scale. 
There are lots of Narrow gauge cars that run on "G gauge" track! and they wont match your locomotives..wrong scale, wrong prototype gauge, and wrong era. 

The cars you want would be these: 

1. Aristocraft Heavyweight passenger cars, 1/29 scale: 








(there are several different types of cars available, but all in the "Heavyweight" category and style) 

2. The Aristocraft smoothside cars..(im not a big fan of those, they sit too high, but they would work..) 








(that isnt NYC Roadname, but they do come in NYC) 

Im not sure if the NYC roadname is available new from Aristocraft right now.. 
cant seem to find the passenger cars listed *anywhere* on their webpage! (nice job Aristo!  

3. Or the USA Trains smoothside cars, also 1/29 scale: 









If you wanted to make a passenger train, I would choose the Aristocraft Heavyweights, or the USA Trains cars.. 
The Aristo cars will be cheaper, you can find them used on Ebay..but it will take more a dedicated search, and could take awhile to build a trainset one car at a time. 

The USA Trains cars are available new right now! but they will be pricey.. 

The cars you *dont* want are the Narrow gauge coaches, like this: 








(the railroad name on the car is irrelevant..its the *type* of car we are talking about, not the railroad name) 
Those cars are of a different era, and they are the wrong scale..there are several manufacturers that make them. 
Technically they run on G-gauge track, and you could couple them behind your E-unit, but they would look weird and "wrong".. 

And freight cars would be fine too..(and a lot easier, and cheaper, than making a passenger car set!  
but again, you want to make sure you are getting 1/29 scale cars specifically.. 

E-units hauling freight: 










Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo smoothsides have not been made in years, and were only made in coach and observation. The picture shown is of course not a smoothside but a corrugated sided Aristo passenger car of a completely different prototype. 

The USAT ones look great! Scale length. The Aristo heavyweights are an accurate model of a somewhat unusual prototype, that was 72 feet long not 80... 

Greg


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Wow doesn't do it anymore---YIKES does!!! Holey moley! I had a feeling we were getting in deep here, so I really really REALLY appreciate all the input on the different scales, gauges, etc. Yes, we have some LGB cars that we had gotten a while back and they looked weird to me we hooked them to the locomotives, so I started looking on line and got totally confused. However, again, Scottychaos has given a very succinct and informative explanation. Thank you to all for the encouragement! Have a great evening! denning251


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This picture is far away, but it's 3 E8s pullling 10 USAT cars... it does look a lot nicer in person!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Denny 
I take it you have no background in any smaller scales before?


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

Posted By Denning251 on 05 Jan 2013 05:21 PM 
Wow doesn't do it anymore---YIKES does!!! Holey moley! I had a feeling we were getting in deep here, so I really really REALLY appreciate all the input on the different scales, gauges, etc. Yes, we have some LGB cars that we had gotten a while back and they looked weird to me we hooked them to the locomotives, so I started looking on line and got totally confused. However, again, Scottychaos has given a very succinct and informative explanation. Thank you to all for the encouragement! Have a great evening! denning251 
Found this video on YouTube for you, about 40 seconds into video is what your lookin for. These Guys are Great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeibPUQ5jM&feature=share&list=FLsV2nFJp7sTzsXSAbXWCbiw


Jethro


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Denning251, where are you located? If anywhere near York, Pennsylvania, then I strongly suggest you attend the ECLSTS near the end of March as this is the largest G scale only show in the country. 

Bring a bath towel to wipe away the drool factor!! 

Here you will see Aristocraft, Bachmann, LGB, Train-Li, USA Trains, and many other vendors/dealers for trains/track and accessories. All for sale at dealer booths. 

Be aware when attending, some dealers only take cash.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm still wondering if it is indeed an E8 ..... 

Take a tape measure and tell us how long the loco is ok? 

Maybe you have an FA-1 

Greg 
Posted By Denning251 on 05 Jan 2013 12:47 PM 
Ok all, I went to the db at Aristocraft and from that, as well as reading your posts, I am thinking that this style of E 8 is NOT made any more[/b], is that correct? As I am a bit of a purist, this must mean I need to look for E 8 passenger cars made by Aristocraft of the same vintage if I want the set correct, yes? hoo boy, I was not expecting all this! Thank you all very much! Denning251


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

TO NTCGRR, lawd a mercy NO!!! Do I sound like I have any experience??? I must sound like an idiot most of the time! So, no, we have not a whit of background in anything! I grew up with my great grandfather's old Lionels from the 1920's (standard??), that he allegedly bought for my mother instead of using the money for Christmas dinner. They never ran, but were dragged out every so often to grace the Christmas tree. My husbando grew up with Marx electric trains from the late 1940's and still has a few sets of those. So, in looking for something he liked, he figured, TRAINS! 

We ended up in G scale because our mechanic said he knew his cousin was selling some old trains. WHo knew there even WAS a thing such as G scale then? So, we saw these big trains, called LGB, and we liked the circus train and the Gold Rush train and got some track with them, etc etc. THen, as I said previously, we were at a local train store and I loved the look of the Aristo E8 engines. So, here we are!! 

We are in south eastern Mass, near where Lizzie Borden did her thing My husband goes to the train show at Springfield, MA at the BIG E at the end of January every year---there must be some G set ups there I would think. Thanks for the heads up on York, PA---we just might wend our way down there if I am not at a dog show--yeah, that is my obsession, but I cannot run and keep up with them as I used to, so as the dogs leave this vale of tears, the trains start coming in. The plan is to have a G scale set up running in and out of the 30 by 30 kennel building at some point. We just keep dreaming and planning! Thanks to all of you--you are all very supportive to newbies!!! Denning251


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi Greg! not counting the couplers, the engine length is 20 1/2 inches long. So, E8 or that other one?? Thanks, Denning251


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Yeah, that video from the Hudson Valley group is EXACTLY what I am talking about! Thanks for that, and I probably sent my reply to others to the wrong place! Let me see where it shows up! Thanks again, Denning251


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Denning251 on 06 Jan 2013 08:48 AM 
Hi Greg! not counting the couplers, the engine length is 20 1/2 inches long. So, E8 or that other one?? Thanks, Denning251 


Greg was right! you have the Alco FA, not the EMD E8..completely different locomotive!
(we assumed the E8, because I posted a photo of the E8, and you said that was the one you have! 
but thats ok..before you learn the differences, they can tend to look alike! 

Aristocraft Alco FA locomotives:









ok then..everything that was discussed above about passenger cars? IGNORE it! 
you do not have passenger locomotives..the Alco FA was almost exclusively a Freight locomotive..
(yes, there were some passenger variants of the Alco FA, but they were a minority among FA's in general, and none were on the New York Central.)

So now you only want to look at freight cars, and a caboose, for these locomotives..
and only in 1/29 scale..Most (but not all) Aristocraft and USA Trains freight cars and cabooses will "go with" your FA locomotives.

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

The Alco FA was built by the *A*merican *L*ocomotive *Co*mpany in Schenectady NY.
(and some were also built by Alco's subsidiary in Canada)
The FA was a freight locomotive, built in the late 1940's and into the mid 1950's..
They were one of the primary types of locomotives that replaced steam.

The New York Central had a rather large fleet of FA's (compared to most railroads), over 200 units! including the FA1, FA2, and B-units.
All New York Central FA's were freight units, none were adapted to passenger service.
(a few FA variants were used in Passenger service, mostly in Canadian commuter service, but the FA was primarily, overwhelmingly, a Freight unit)

All the NYC units originally had the classic "Lightning Stripe" scheme, which the Aristocraft model also has.
this is the most well-known (and most well-liked) scheme, and was used in the 1940's and 50's:










By the 1960's, the FA's were getting old, and many were retired..some of the survivors were painted in a simplified, somewhat bland "cigar band" scheme:










A very tiny percentage of NYC Alco FA's made it to the Penn Central merger in 1968, but they didnt last long with PC.
None were on the roster by Conrail in 1976.

Only one New York Central Alco FA survives today! With the Western NY Railroad Historical Society, in Buffalo, NY.
the unit is not currently on display to the public, but likely will be in a few years, as the society is in the process of building a railroad museum in Buffalo.

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Denning, the New York Central had a line near you!
it was their "Boston & Albany" line, that ran from Selkirk Yard (south of Albany NY)
crossed the Hudson, then ran to Boston..today the line is still in use by CSX.

Map of the New York Central Railroad. 

Scot


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

There are two dealers near you in eastern Mass. Train-Li is in Upton, Ma. I have delt with them via phone, I have never been to their shop. I have been very satisfied with them. The other is Charles Ro in Malden, Ma. They are one of the largest model train stores in the country. The USAtrains line of products is theirs. They are also very helpful and their prices are competitive. I suggest that you visit them and see for yourself what is available. Charles Ro has a large operating layout upstairs. Chuck


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

The M&P/CCTGG G scale layout will be in Springfield. There are some g gauge dealers there. Please note that Train-Li does not have store. I am a member of the Rusty Rails club and we have many members south of Boston.

LAO


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

LAO, thanks I did not know that they did not have a store. Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They don't have a store front per se, but you can go see them by appointment and visit the shop and the "warehouse". 

Nice people. 

Greg


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

They are great people and members of the Rusty Rails club. 
lao


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I recall the earlier run of Aristocraft FA-1 engines were visually set too high on their trucks and the later made version was set lower. 

Andrew


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ok, we are reeling from all this info!!! In a good way though! First, many thanks to all for your input. Now, here go the next set of questions: It looked as if on the train pic that Scottychaos posted, there were passenger cars and THEN the freight cars. Yes? or are we thinking they are passenger cars but are not? 

Next, the map of the NYC train system gave us ENDLESS possibilities! Are we right in thinking that any freight car that would have been carried by NYC would be appropriate and look "right?" I mean, I don't think we should look for Dole pineapple cars, correct? 

It is VERY cool that this engine type was built in Schenctady, as my husband is from upstate NY! And his father worked in the Alco plant--even cooler! It was built by Ellis, who was responsible for Ellis Hospital, etc. 

Thank you also for the info about the train set ups in Springfield, and about Train-Li. We had found Ro, but did not realize they carry G---I guess this means they have everything?? And I will look for the Rusty Rails club website. If they do not have a site, could someone send me an address please? Thank you ALL so very much! WOW! Denning251


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Denning251 on 06 Jan 2013 04:42 PM 
Ok, we are reeling from all this info!!! In a good way though! First, many thanks to all for your input. Now, here go the next set of questions: It looked as if on the train pic that Scottychaos posted, there were passenger cars and THEN the freight cars. Yes? or are we thinking they are passenger cars but are not? 

I assume you mean this photo? 








Nope, there are no passenger cars in that photo!  What you are seeing there is four locomotives, then a boxcar, then the rest of the freight train (out of the photo)
The two locomotives in the middle are called "B-units"..They are powered locomotives! they have diesel engines inside of them.. 
what they *dont* have however is a cab..they are cabless locomotives. The "cab" on the A-unit (the kind you have a model of) has front windows, 
and seats and controls for the engineer and crew.. The B-units have no cabs at all, and no windshields.. 

Diesels almost always run with more than one locomotive, so in the early days, if you were going to have 3 or 4 (or more) locomotives at the front of the train anyway, 
they didnt all have to have cabs! B-units saved money, because they didnt have the extra cost of a redundant cab.. 
What you are seeing in that set is called an ABBA lashup of locomotives..There is one A-unit in the lead, with a cab..then two cabless B-units,
then the 4th locomotive is also an A-unit, with the cab facing to the rear..The B-units are also Alco FA locomotives, but instead of FA, they were labeled FB.. 
"FA" means "Freight, A-unit" and "FB" means "Freight, B-unit"..The Alco FA and FB are the same locomotive, except one has a cab and one doesnt.. 
B-units were popular for a long time, sometimes being ordered as more modern diesels, but you rarely see them anymore.. 
Next, the map of the NYC train system gave us ENDLESS possibilities! Are we right in thinking that any freight car that would have been carried by NYC would be appropriate and look "right?" I mean, I don't think we should look for Dole pineapple cars, correct? 

New York Central Railroad freight cars would certainty be appropriate for your train..but not *only* New York Central cars!
With passenger trains, it was normal that all the passenger cars would belong to the same railroad as the locomotives, and the locomotives
and passenger cars would usually be painted in a matching paintscheme..But this is not the case with Freight trains.
A typical "mixed freight" ("mixed" meaning it has different types if freight cars in it) could have cars from railroads all over the USA.. 
New York Central freight cars would be very common mixed into a New York Central freight train, but you also see cars from lots of other railroads as well, 
the Pennsylvania Railroad, Erie Railroad, Union Pacific, Santa Fe..really any major railroad that existed in the USA or Canada during the era you are modeling.. 

For your Alco FA's, you would want cars, and railroad paintschemes, that existed during the 1950's and 1960's.. Not something more modern like Conrail, CSX or Norfolk Southern..
because those railroad names didnt exist until after the FA's were out of service.. although you will find that many people in Large Scale dont care so much! 
If you found a good deal on a CSX boxcar for example, with a paintscheme from the 1990's, most people wouldnt care at all if you ran it behind your FA's..
in the smaller scales (like HO scale) you often find modelers that are much more sticklers for their era.. 
"I am modeling the Pennsylvania Railroad in Williamsport PA on Tuesday July 7th 1953" for example.. and that guy will have *everything * accurate to that era! 
if a certain freight car didnt exist until 1954, it wont be on his railroad!  
But Large Scalers for the most part are a more relaxed bunch.. later tonight I will post some examples of freight cars types, and road names, you might want to look for..
The caboose would generally match the locomotives though! (although not necessarily in a similar paintscheme as the locomotives) 
But you would want your caboose to be a New York Central caboose, in 1/29 scale..I will post more later!  

Scot


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Those are not passenger cars, they are powered units without a cab (where the people sit).... they are called "B" units, the ones with the cab and windshields are "A" units. 

In both the real and the model pictures you have an "A" unit, followed by two "B" units, and then another "A" unit running backwards. 

This arrangement allowed railroads to "consist" locomotives together for additional pulling power, and at the end of the line, the "consist" can be run in the other direction, and guess what, the "cab" for the engineer is already at the front!. 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Hi Denning251, 
As we uncovered clues, we went through the possibilities. 
Based on your measurement you own an Alco FA1 which was geared for freight cars. Alco also made a PA1 for passenger service, that loco was geared for faster speeds (thus less pulling power) and also carried a boiler for steam heat in the passinger cars. Steam heat came from steam locos.... 

Regarding what cars.... Any traffic that originates on NYC property would likely be in a NYC car, but the shipper might have a car from a load in, that they can use for a load out or they may own their own cars. An off line car would have brought in a product/raw material from beyond the New York Central system. 

On my railroad we will use home road cars for most traffic, how ever we must use outside cars when we order unobtainium to make Ucantaffordituh... 

You could run a PFE car that may have carried Pineapples but would say Pacific Fruit Express. Advertising was kept to a minimum, but we allow more freedoms on our railroads and encourage fun and fantasy too. It was common to see nearby roads on yours as well as company owned cars. 

Check Google Images for NYC RR 1940 - 1950 

Charles Ro will have a great USATrains selection, but I doubt if he carries his competition. Join your local group, they have these answers. 

Happy Rails 

John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles Ro shows Aristo and LGB among a number of "G" products on their web site. I have purchased USAt, Bachmann, Accucraft, and LGB products from them. With Aristocraft's new marketing strategy Ro may be limited to stock on hand. Chuck


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

As Scott said, a freight train would have cars from all over the country, and many different RRs. The only exemption might be where there was a long train of a single commodity, like coal. There might be a half mile of coal hoppers all saying "Norfolk and southern." 

For the 40s and 50s, when the FAs were operating, you'd want mostly 40 foot freight cars. There are lots of 40 foot boxcars and refrigerator cars and stock cars and flatcars on the market. Longer freight cars became more common after the fifites, and it ,got more and more common to see cars carrying shipping containers or truck trailers. So if you cared about being accurate, you'd want to avoid 50 or 60 foot boxcars in favor of 40 foot boxcars. They would mostly be steel, not wood, and they would not have those stay bars underneath. 

If you start with aristo freight cars you won't have to worry about getting he couplers to mate up


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well now it' almost like years ago identifying a chevy from a Ford very easily to tell the difference between the FA and E-8 unless you are of the younger Generation. Later RJD


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

Charles Ro carries USA, LGB, Aristo and Bachmann in G gauge. I got my first E8 there. Please note his USA selection dwarfs the other 3 combined in his store.Sometimes the ride up 24 to 128 to 93 to 60 to get to their store just plain sucks. I try to combine any rides there with a trip to the Hobby Bunker to check what they have in figures. Every once in a while they have some G from stores they buy out. The Rusty Rails does not have a website but you can contact me through this site with any questions. The USA smoothsiders are beautiful passenger cars. The Heavyweights by Aristo are nice as well. I have many of each but in Pennsylvania.
Regards, 
LAO


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I am not sure if this is true, but didn't the B units also have the generator for the passenger cars? So, all passenger consists had to have a B unit. 

Or was it the Passenger consists could be used for freight and passenger runs, but freight consists were freight only due to passenger consists need something extra?


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ok, now we are really reeling! Greg, thankyou for figuring out the engine type and, along with Scottychaos, explaining what are NOT passenger cars. Yikes! Ok, so 40 foot cars, steel, not wood, and are B units (the locomotives without windows, if I am getting this correctly) still available? Again, thankyou SO very much, Denning251


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Passenger consists needed steam heat which most A & B units had...and the RR's had backup systems incase a boiler quit while on the road..and that could be a very bad thing when it's sub-zero temps outside.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You can find them on ebay. It might be tough finding one in NYC though. You could also just run two A units back to back

Here is a boxcar thats technically too old for the FA:










See those rods underneath? They were to reinforce the car and prevent the wooden frame from sagging or buckling. Twere banned in "interchange service" in the 1930s, I believe, so you'd be unlikely to find them behind an FA.

And here is one which is likely too new:











It's 50 scale feet long. You might find one behind an FA, but this type hits the sweet spot for the FA:











That's a USA Trains boxcar. Excellent detail, but just be warned that you might have trouble coupling it to an aristo locomotive--they have better detail than Aristo, but use different and not quite compatible coupler, just to be annoying. Aristocraft makes plenty of 40 foot boxcars. Really anything in the 400 foot range, without the rods underneath. 

A while a go I did some posts about kitbashing new kinds of boxcars--they might be interesting

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx 


http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 07 Jan 2013 05:13 AM 
I am not sure if this is true, but didn't the B units also have the generator for the passenger cars? So, all passenger consists had to have a B unit. 


For the most part, not true.. some railroads might have had the steam generators placed in B-units, but generally speaking passenger A-units almost always had steam generators.. 
Many railroads didnt use B-units at all in passenger service, the Lehigh Valley used Fourteen Alco PA's as their diesel-era passenger units, but didnt own a single "PB"..
(the B-unit of an Alco PA)..
They ran passenger trains with two PA's, or just one for shorter trains. 
Many railroads would also use something like one single E-unit in commuter service, or two A-units with no B unit. 
so generally, no, steam generators were not in B-units as a regular procedure.. 


Or was it the Passenger consists could be used for freight and passenger runs, but freight consists were freight only due to passenger consists need something extra? 
Locomotives equipped with steam generators were needed for passenger service, but not freight service.
Most locomotives were "passenger only" or "freight only"..
Some railroads used passenger locomotives in freight service, if they werent needed at that moment for a passenger train,
or passenger units were sometimes assigned to freight when passenger service ended (for good) on a particular railroad..
they worked ok for the short-term, but passenger units werent ideal in freight service, because they usually had different gearing..
so most of the time, a particular unit was dedicated to either freight or passenger service, but not both..

Some railroads did have "dual service" locomotives, meant to be used for both passenger and freight service, but they were rather rare..
The Lackawanna railroad (and then later the Erie-Lackawanna) had a small fleet of dual-service Fairbanks Morse Trainmasters:










They were assigned to New Jersey commuter service during the day, Monday - Friday.
then at night, and weekends, they were sent out on the road hauling freight, rather than just have them sitting still idling away the overnight hours and weekends..
it usually worked fine! but there are stories of Trainmasters being in Buffalo, or Chicago! at 6am Monday morning! 
they didnt make it "home" to New Jersey in time for their morning commuter assignments! 

But 90% of the time..perhaps 99% of the time, (when factoring in the whole history of diesel locomotives), a particular locomotive would "freight only" or "passenger only" ..
passenger units had steam generators (mostly for heat in the passenger cars, and other things) Freight did not have, or need, steam generators.

Here is another cool story..and its the Erie Lackawanna again! 
EMD offered the SDP45 locomotive to be a "passenger variant" of their popular SD45 freight locomotive.
(the "P" in SDP45 stood for "passenger")
I think very few were actually purchased for passenger service..
but the SDP45 had an extended frame, and an extended rear hood, to house the steam generator for passenger service:










That extra length behind the flared radiators was meant to house the seam generator..
on "standard" SD45 freight units, the hood ended at the end of the flares:










Because it had a longer frame than the standard SD45, it could also have a larger fuel tank..
So the Erie Lackawanna placed an order for SDP45's, *without* steam generators! (because they were using them as freight-only units)
the larger fuel tanks allowed these particular locomotives to run across the entire EL system, New York City to Chicago, without needing refueling!
EL called them SDP45's for their entire career, as did Conrail who inherieted them..even though they were never passenger units in reality.

So the Erie Lackawanna SDP45 is an interesting example of a locomotive that was originally intended to be a passenger unit,
but was turned into a "custom freight unit" because of its "passenger features"! 
pretty cool..

Scot


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

cool story!


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## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

Posted By lownote on 07 Jan 2013 12:48 PM 
cool story! 
Yes Jethro Luv long time.


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ok, I am not even going to say WOW this time. Thank you, a HUGE thank you, to all of you for all the advice. I love to research, so I will be doing much research about the NYC and vintage Aristo craft FB-1's! I was president of a historical society for 17 years so by golly I know how to do research! Thanks again, Denning251


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The RR I worked for use to use there Pass units for fright service on week ends and then make sure they where ready to use in commuter service on Monday morning. Later RJD


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

EMD designated them AC130's or SD45M's for the Erie Lackawanna.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 08 Jan 2013 01:27 PM 
EMD designated them AC130's or SD45M's for the Erie Lackawanna. 

Thanks Chuck! I remember reading that somewhere..

a few years back there was a debate on one of the railfan forums about that! 
someone said that they thought the EL SDP45's should officially be called SD45M's, because that is what EMD called them in their documents.
I argued that that was pointless revisionist history!  40 years too late.
because the EL very clearly labeled them SDP45's, right on the side of the cab..
then Conrail also labeled them SDP45's on the side of the cab when they received Conrail paint.
So for their entire EL and Conrail careers, they were called SDP45's..
The Erie Lackawanna roster, and the Conrail roster, contained SDP45's..but no SD45M's

So, no, they absolutely should not, ever, be called Erie Lackawanna SD45M's! 
Erie Lackawanna SD45M's never existed..
what EMD labeled them in their planning documents is irrelevant..
what the Railroad called them is all that matters.

But then, ironically, some of them ended up with the Union Pacific after their Conrail days! where a few still operate today..
the "M" in SD45M stands for "modified"..the Conrail SDP45's (originally EL) were "modified" by UP! (I think they got new engines, or were otherwise rebuilt somehow)
so yep, you guessed it, UP now calls them SD45M's! 
pretty funny..

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

New York Central Alco FA's in Pittsfield, Mass:

Photo 1 

Photo 2 

(photo 2 was already posted in this thread..but not photo 1)


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Denning251 
You should go to the train show at the Big E at end of jan. with your husband this is largest show on east cost open to public. 
there is a little under 8 sq. miles of trains it is only 1 to 1 1/2 hrs.from you all of the major manufactures are there also large G scale layout 
this is all scales with alot layouts and stores. this there web sit http://www.railroadhobbyshow.com/index.php


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi all you helpful folks! I have printed out the list of vendors in Springfield, and the Alco one caught my eye immediately. There are some venues that were suggested on page two I think, but does anyone else have any recommendations for vendors of vintage I guess they are Aristo Craft NYC FB 2's? Thanks, Denning251


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Denning251 on 12 Jan 2013 05:27 PM 
Hi all you helpful folks! I have printed out the list of vendors in Springfield, and the Alco one caught my eye immediately. There are some venues that were suggested on page two I think, but does anyone else have any recommendations for vendors of vintage I guess they are Aristo Craft NYC FB 2's? Thanks, Denning251 

Denning,

you *might* find your Aristocraft New York Central FB's at a train show..but the odds are quite low..
Most train shows dont even have any Large scale trains at all..let alone something specific you want! although this Springfield show is apparently bigger than most, so there will likely be some vendors with large scale there!
so you could luck out! its certainty worth going to look..but..

best place to find them, by far: Ebay.

Scot


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

Scooty, 
There are Large Scale Vendors at this show though not a lot. A few of us have got GREAT deals on G there. Aristocraft even brought stock to sell through a local dealer. 
If anyone goes to the show please not that 3 or 4 Large Scale Vendors are now in the Mallory Building since they expanded it. Charles Ro and Amato's (MAinly BAchmann and Aristo buldings.) will be in a different building. Don't hesitate to come by the M&P Large Scale layout as we might know who has what. I did miss buying some broken LGB 2 axle cars that were being sold real cheap last year. Saw them and did not buy them. It would have been worth buying them then getting the parts from Train-Li. If anyone goes it's best to bring cash with you. 
Regards, 
LAO


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks Ltotis! I will make sure my husbando goes to the Mallory Buildiing if I do not get to the show---may have to be at a dog show in Erie, PA if the weather is good! Thanks to all for the info and yes, I AM looking for those elusive NYC FB's! Ah well, when the time is right they will show up! Thanks again, Denning251


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Sorry, but I should have said I want the ones from the 1990's, I guess they would be called vintage or discontinued. I do NOT want the new ones, I just like old stuff! thanks again, Denning251


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi everyone! Well, I purchased a GREAT book on freight and passenger equipment on the NYC lines by David Sweetland. I now understand why there are blank cars sold, as not every kind of freight car is made by a manufacturer. This book is really good for anyone as nuts as I am to get "correct" cars for my Aristocraft FA and FB locomotives. I have not figured out what to do about the larger freight cars listed--paint schemes seem relatively easy compared to finding 50 ft long box cars or 65 ft 6 inches gondola cars! oh well, the hunt and figuring it out is what makes it interesting for me! Thanks again to all who helped point me in the correct directions! Denning251


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

regarding those elusive 65-6 mill gons, they will not be found on store shelves... 

Mine came off my work bench!! LOL 

Start scratch building car bodies and you'll soon find one on your bench!! 

It's a great hobby!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hoo boy I am not even going to THINK about that part yet! I am just still taking this all in, and have found one FB, so am now on the hunt for the second, so I will at least have the correct locomotives hitched together! Denning251


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

For many of us G is a 'scale' of compromises. I run 10'D track and for many gardens that is a huge circle ... but ... in full size would be tight for a yard track at very slow speed. 
I model older trains with shorter cars (on 4 wheel trucks) so they, in my mind's eye, look better rolling by. Longer cars had more overhang and looked like toys to me. Oh wait! That's what they are! Toys that kinda look like scale models that run on toy track. 
You may not want trully accurate model lengths for the above reasons. So I'd suggest being open to shorter cars of the right kind and painted to suit your desires. 
The 'blank' cars (with data) are for us to add our RR's names, there was no Vail and Total Wreck RR, but I can get them from vendors that advertise here or make my own decals/ stencils and add them to a decal ready car. 

Happy Rails 

John


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi all! First, thanks to everyone at the Springfield Train show who talked with my husband Bill while I was at the dog show in Erie PA Yes we won Second, I now have my two FBs for my Aristo craft NYC FA Alco locomotives and cannot bring myself to put them outside ever---hopefully that will change. I am planning to put up a shelf-type track in our sun room so I can watch them in the good weather. My husband is not so crazy and WILL carryon with setting up a track outside. Again, many many thanks to all who have given me and us info! Denning251, snowed in in southeastern MA


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Denning251, please contact me as I live in Norton, MA and I am the President of the Rusty Rails and Rotten Ties train club. 
We meet on the 2nd Saturday of the month at 10AM at peoples homes and run trains in the good weather. 
Members are located between Jamestown, RI, all the way to Lunenburg, MA. 

[email protected]


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## Denning251 (Jan 5, 2013)

Greetings to all the folks who helped us with the differences in Aristo craft locomotives. It has been a busy month since I last communicated, BUT in the meantime I have tracked down and purchased my two needed FB units, so I now have the FA FB FB FA configuration for freight. I have also purchased some track and some cars, and am doing research on the REA station that used to be in Fall River, MA, which was part of the NYC line. If Dan Pierce is online, I just found your message and have sent you an email about the April meeting! Thanks to all you helpful people out there---we think of you often as we struggle to put track together!!! Denning 251


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