# Plastic wheels on LGB?



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

I just bought my first LGB freight car (off of eBay). It has plastic wheels! I was surprised that what I thought was "top-of-the-line" product would have plastic wheels. Is this the way they come, or did the previous owner swap them out. What do you guys think? Thanks. Ken S


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The only LGB cars with metal wheels are the ones that required electrical pickups. All other cars had plastic wheels.

Chuck


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

and yes you should swap them out ..... metal wheels will help keep the track cleaner so the trains run better


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

All the LGB cars I purchased had plasitc wheels, none came with metal wheels. They are very easy to change out.

Don


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Of the big three (LGB, Aristo, and USAt) only the USAt ultimate series comes with metal wheels. I agree with the others. Swap out the plastic wheels for metal ones. The cars will run better.

The Bachmann Spectrum (1:20.3) and Accucraft cars come with metal wheels.

Chuck


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

The plastic wheels work OK, but because the cars are often light weight to begin with, the CG isn't quite right. If you are pulling longer trains and your track isn't perfect (especially when transitioning over switches), you may find that you have more derailments than you get with adding the metal wheels to the cars that keep the "bump or jump" factor down. But all metal wheels aren't the same and they aren't cheap. You can expect to pay $16.00/pair and up for good ones. Then you have metal wheels with ball bearings (bb) and they will set you back $24 and up. I do agree with all the previous posts that they are a good item to switch out regardless of the manufacturer of the rolling stock. Shop around and don't forget to ask specific questions to sellers if you are looking at Ebay. 

Ed


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies to my OP. I do have to reiterate that finding plastic wheels on LGB was a surprise, especially since all the USA Trains rolling stock I've purchased had metal ones. Coming from the HO world, I've swapped out all plastic wheels for decades, and agree that they are rubbish. What do you folks recommend for replacement wheels for the Pabst refrigerator car by LGB? The side frames of the bogies/trucks seem OK, so I think I just want the wheelsets. I'm trying to keep to 1:29 scale, and am trying to fit the LGB into that framework, if that makes any difference on which wheels to purchase.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The best bang for my buck were the San-Val ones... but that was before several price increases. They may still be a good value, but they're now out of my price range. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-PAIRS-20...899283?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item19d57ca993


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Plastic wheels..NO!

Hook and loop..NO!

Bubba!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Madstang on 25 Sep 2012 09:50 AM 
Plastic wheels..NO!

Hook and loop..NO!

Bubba!

It it means the difference between being able to afford the hobby, and not. Who are you to say it's wrong?

Hook and loops work a whole lot better than trying to get a B'mann knuckle to couple with an Aristo one. Plastic wheels hold a rarely run car above the rails as well as $30 worth of metal ones, or run fine with a bit more track cleaning..... and both are cheap as chips because the snobs don't want 'em.


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

Some LGB freight rolling stock did come with metal wheels. The two cigar cars that came out few years back came standard with them. 
lao


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Posted By Mik on 25 Sep 2012 09:55 AM 
Posted By Madstang on 25 Sep 2012 09:50 AM 
Plastic wheels..NO!

Hook and loop..NO!

Bubba!

It it means the difference between being able to afford the hobby, and not. Who are you to say it's wrong?

Hook and loops work a whole lot better than trying to get a B'mann knuckle to couple with an Aristo one. Plastic wheels hold a rarely run car above the rails as well as $30 worth of metal ones, or run fine with a bit more track cleaning..... and both are cheap as chips because the snobs don't want 'em.

I guess I would have to agree with Mik on this one. Plastic wheels do work and hook and loop couplers do work very well. I don't use either on my railroad. I was convinced early on that I needed to switch to knuckle couplers and metal wheels. But I've had several friends come over with their plastic wheels and hook and loop couplers and they ran great. Yep, the track work has to be better for the lighter weight cars and you might need to clean the rails a little more often, But they do work. And if it's the difference between affording the hobby or not, they go for the plastic wheels. And for metal wheels I found Bachmann to be the best value. I know some people claim that they get a lot of out of round wheels from Bachmann but most of my rolling stock has Bachmann metal wheels and none of them have been a problem. I've got some BB metal wheels also (probably about 6 to 8 cars) and I can't tell the difference from the running performance. 
Just my 2 cents, and you got at least that much value out of it. Or a little less.
Bob


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Are one manufacturer's wheelsets interchangeable with another's? Can I use USAT wheel sets in my LGB car?


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

This is best



Bubba


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

I don't agree with the snob comment, but if someone is happy with plastic wheels and hook and loop couplers who is to say they are wrong. I maintain an around the ceiling railroad at a local restaurant. They are track powered and use only plastic wheels on the cars. They don't want metal wheels because of the added noise. They pull a track cleaning car all the time and I never clean the rails by hand. They also use hook and loop couplers because no one can see the couplers and they never come uncoupled. Why should they change? And I have a couple of friends who use hook and loop couplers and plastic wheels and they are also track powered and don't have any trouble keeping the track clean. I don't think they should be made to feel that they are less of model railroaders. I only use knuckle couplers and metal wheels, but I think one of my friends with plastic wheels and hook and loop couplers has a much more interesting layout. 
Bob


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Never Mind. 
Bubba


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 25 Sep 2012 09:55 AM 
..... and both are cheap as chips because the snobs don't want 'em.

I really believe Mik said this more as "tongue firmly implanted in cheek" than anything against those that use metal wheels. Sheeesh!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Bachmann axles with metal wheels will substitute for LGB plastic wheels. There are several other manufacturers who make wheel sets that also substitute: Gary Raymond, Sierra Valley, USA trains, and AristoCraft. Some or all of these make different size wheels, so make sure when ordering to say you want them for LGB trucks.


For the sake of truth in advice, I have not changed out any of my spoked plastic wheels on my European rolling stock and they all still have hook and loop.

I am now buying USAt freight cars almost exclusively because of the metal wheels. I recently bought two Aristo two-bay hoppers, but if similar cars are available from USA and Aristo I will always go with USA. 

Chuck


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 25 Sep 2012 06:03 AM 
The only LGB cars with metal wheels are the ones that required electrical pickups. All other cars had plastic wheels.

Chuck

Sorry Chuck, but that is not true.

Any LGB car that was sold as an Xtra item came with metal wheels even if there was no electrical pick ups.
Take the LGB Beercars with the raised brakeman's hut, the 4x26x series - most came with plastic wheels but 41263 and 43265 came with metal wheels because they were Xtra items.
Same with all other LGB Xtra items.

The LGB metal wheels only had a metal rim, ie the running surface, the core is still plastic.
And all third party metal wheels will not fit all LGB cars - one has to be specific which car and which replacement wheel set one is talking about.

As to plastic vs metal - metal gives the extra weight which really helps with the smaller lighter cars, but I found the LGB plastic ones don't leave a deposit on the rails like some of the others, so from that point of view it's less important to swap those out for metal ones.

Knut

PS: Boy, I hope email notification comes back soon or I'll always be at the tail end of any thread.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

We have a good supply of USA wheels in black or plated. About $20 for 4 axles.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, having a 100% battery powered railroad, for years I ran with plastic wheels on my rolling stock. I have now converted to the metal wheels and prefer them, but I do believe that plastic wheels have their place in our hobby.

What I find really interesting though, is that Aristo has now announced that their rolling stock will all now be manufactured with metal wheels (going forward). This is strange now to hear that the revered LGB is putting plastic wheels on their rolling stock.

Ed


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Knut:

There are exceptions, but I don't think that any of my LGB American style freight cars ever came with metal wheels. I do not think that plastic wheel with metal treads weight enough to significantly lower the center of gravity. In my opinion that is a major advantage to solid metal wheels. Thanks for the comment about the plastic on LGB wheels being different. I had never noticed them being a problem about adding dirt to the track. I didn't want to say that as that might have started a flame war. As I said, the only plastic wheels I still have are on European LGB cars. All North American cars that I have have metal wheels.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 25 Sep 2012 04:43 PM 
Knut:

There are exceptions, but I don't think that any of my LGB American style freight cars ever came with metal wheels.


Chuck,

You're probably right as far as LGB American style freight cars are concerned.
I can't think of any that were part of the LGB eXtra shop program.
The only other cars from LGB that came with metal wheels were the LGB Club unique items but I think all those US type cars were eventually cancelled.

As to replacing plastic with metal wheels - I bought a bunch of SanVal wheels when thier price was good.
I was a bit surprised that they wouldn't fit on all the LGB cars - not really a problem for me, I have a lot more cars to retrofit than SanVal wheel sets, but if you want to do only a specific car you need to make sure that the chosen metal wheel fits or can be modified to fit.

Knut


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

i am running my largescale stuf for more than forty years now. on trackpower. 
i got some knucklecouplers, some homemade link and pin couplers but mostly the LGB or compatible "bottleopeners" hook n loop. 
concerning wheels i got some (plastic and metal) turned by the local smith, but most are plastic of different brands. 

and, frankly, i don't understand, why people think they "have" to change to metal wheels.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Knut:

I was never a member of the LGB club and until tonight I had never heard of the extra shop. My experience with LGB is through open market products sold in Europe and the USA. I was active in buying LGB products (both European and Noeth American) from 1979 to about 2000. I lost interest in their products when they came out with their proprietary control system.
Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

While my running trains has been brief, I have run enough cars with metal wheels and plastic to SEE a very significant difference in performance...!!! 

I do have some track down, on only a shallow .25% grade, & with Metal wheel sets every car runs 'freely' for a very long ways, exceeding My expectations.. usually exceeding 10-12 feet, or more. 

However, when I run even a brand new car with plastic wheels, they will only roll about 6 feet or less, and always 'wobble' doing so.... 

I therefore can not see any reason to even think about using plastic wheels.......... 

Drag and free rolling come to mind here, and I want the least amount of drag in my trains. The wobble does not look pretty too.... 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would never use plastic wheels outdoors as the metal wheels do give a lower center of gravity (CG) and when a stiff breeze crosses my yard, the cars stay on the track. 
And I use double hook and loops, never had cars uncouple unexpectedly!! Indoors plastic makes less noise!! 

LGB and Train-Li metal wheels have rims and have much less weight than the USA ones I use. And the USA are a little smaller in diameter which lowers a car a little. 
I say this as you can not use a LGB ballbearing on one axle and the USA on the other on 2 axle cars as the truck will be at an angle, so do not mix wheel types on multiple axle freight cars. 
(maybe a good thing on 3 axle cars with the center wheel smaller?????)


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 25 Sep 2012 07:39 PM 
I lost interest in their products when they came out with their proprietary control system. Chuck 
Off topic but I didn't want this statement stand as is.
The LGB MTS system is not really proprietary, it's a somewhat spec'd down NMRA compliant DCC system with a few tweaks to make it more suitable for G-Scale.
The original DCC system was really designed for the smaller indoor model railroads (lower voltage, lower current, cleaner tracks) and only evolved for use in G-Scale over time.
Even the original LGB MTS pulse chain function control, while a pain for the higher numbered functions, was fully NMRA DCC compliant. That was then changed to the way other DCC systems handle function commands and called "Parallel" operation.

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 25 Sep 2012 08:13 PM 
While my running trains has been brief, I have run enough cars with metal wheels and plastic to SEE a very significant difference in performance...!!! 

I do have some track down, on only a shallow .25% grade, & with Metal wheel sets every car runs 'freely' for a very long ways, exceeding My expectations.. usually exceeding 10-12 feet, or more. 

However, when I run even a brand new car with plastic wheels, they will only roll about 6 feet or less, and always 'wobble' doing so.... 

I therefore can not see any reason to even think about using plastic wheels.......... 

Drag and free rolling come to mind here, and I want the least amount of drag in my trains. The wobble does not look pretty too.... 

Dirk - DMS Ry. 


You can't throw all plastic and all metal wheels into the same pot.

None of my LGB plastic wheels "wobble" and most of my Bachmann solid metal wheels do.

Knut


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

OK - just to clarify things here, I was sharing My experience with Aristo Craft 'plastic' wheels...only.... 

Dirk


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

LGB makes metal wheel replacements, but they are super expensive. Last I checked the going rate was about $12.00 per axle. Yes that is per axle. Not $12.00 for 4 axles like you can typically find for the Bachmann metal wheels. Although you definitely get what you pay for. I have a small amount of LGB metal wheel sets and they are top notch. However most of my rolling stock has Bachmann metal wheels. They work, but nice? Well lets just say some are better then others.

This high cost for LGB metal wheel sets is probably a reason why most of their rolling stock comes with plastic wheels. If LGB rolling stock came with LGB metal wheels the price would jump up on a typically already expensive item.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

everyone has an opinion
first i know the appolonaris mineral water brake hut reefer lgb car had metal wheels stock, 'cos ive got one-the indeed came this way

second 
while the comments on free rolling and C of G are absolutely correct
and tracking and backing 

i find the lgb plastic wheels are very high quality-the plus side is the are lighter and easier to pull
they do not leave a residue even on the hottest days-they will turn bronze on the tread as you run over dirty oxidized track over time

i might suggest to the OP to simply run your pabst reefer and then make a judgment (nice car too!)

over the years , some of my lgb has been retro-ed either with gary raymond wheels which i really like, a few USA, which im not too impressed with, a few bachman on bachman ore cars-
and some with LGB-which are expensive but dont rust or corrode, particularly relevant if using a back side brush to pick up electricity

ive never had a stock LGB wheel not run well or be true
plastic wheels are quiet-that may or may not be a plus


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Hi, Stevedenver, you've got me thinking about keeping the plastic wheels, except that I live in Phoenix, where they'll have to deal with temps from 40F to 120F. Can the plastic stay intact sitting on rails that get really, really hot? I looked at the Gary Raymond site and am confused. Their LGB has designations like Gnm to start with. Is that what the Pabst car is? What does nm mean? I assume that n is narrow, but I don't know. Then, there are so many choices. I can't find what LGB recommends. Since it's only one LGB car I have to deal with, being disappointed with the overall quality and features, and probably won't buy another LGB product, I can pay for LGB metal wheels one time, know they will fit, and not break the bank. That's my current thinking.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

avlisk,

My start in large scale was in late 1985 with an LGB 2018 and LGB D&RGW passengers and freight. All my rolling stock had plastic wheels then. Remember these LGB cars were built at a time when they were manufactured in West Germany, not China. Ran these cars for about three years on LGB brass track. The wheels left a little bit of black "stuff" on the rail, but was easily removed with a sanding block. I DID have some other manufacturers rolling stock at that time also and those cars left a lot of crud on the rail. The rolling characteristics of wheels at that time were terrible IMHO. Abandoned the hobby for quite a few years and came back in 2007, concentrating on 1:20.3 fine scale narrow gauge. Now I use metal wheelsets ONLY with ball-bearings. The ONLY thing that would concern me about plastics wheels would be your hot Phoenix weather. If you are trying to keep costs down, then plastic is the way to go(PRO). Using metal wheels can get pricey to replace if you have a lot of rolling stock (CON)


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Yeah, Gary A, since it's only one freight car, I'm going to get the LGB metal wheels because I know they'll fit. And everything else I have is and will be USA Trains. The only thing with them is I have to replace the traction tires on the GP38-2, and I've already ordered a replacement set for that. Keeping crud off the track is my primary objective here. Ken S.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

i dont know the answer about phoenexian heat
here in denver, i have had track so hot on mid august day i couldnt touch it-
you may be hotter still

my thought is give it a go-worst case is they melt-and you replace the wheels and cean some track
otoh-for about 45 bucks or so-you get metal and its moot


fwiw, i have NEVER had LGB leave any black crud-never-and its all i run
not saying it wont melt-it just hasnt happened to me

as for what to buy from gary-its been several years 

heres what little i remember 
i prefer the darkened wheels vs the steel 

his wheels sets are marked as larger flange or the semi scale flange-
i prefer the LGB type desingation-larger flange
thats me- i have used both
the semi scale flange looks great-it tends to derail, for me on my slap dash track, a bit more than the larger flanges-but not much, and usually only when backing a longer train or on curves which arent level

his wheels roll the best -really great

and im not so much a 'modeler' in G scale as others (obvioulsy being a LGB type) 
-the larger flanges can really help with less than perfectly aligned or level track-depending on the switches however, the semi scale may be best-i use LGB switches and 332 rail

i recall he actually has a check list with empty boxes, one of which will have an "x" entered, on his labled in the bags-

-one indicates LGB as i recall-
the others indicate aristo, USA, bachmann etc-
its process of elimintation-

perhaps he no longer uses this designation



his wheels paint well too, but as i recall the darkened is the same price-
when in doubt call gary and ask

as for Gnm-only a guess-
G scale 
narrow gague
meter guage???

think ill order soon too


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By chuck n on 25 Sep 2012 06:03 AM 
The only LGB cars with metal wheels are the ones that required electrical pickups. All other cars had plastic wheels.

Chuck

Not only the electrical pick-up ones have metal wheels but most do only have plastic ones.
Below are some that have metal wheels: 

The Dutch Masters cigar reefers. 
The RhB Sachsen coaches (no lighting).
The hot metal ladle cars.

Andrew


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Be very careful about your metal wheels. I body mounted my Kadee couplers and discovered the hard way that Bachmann wheels and San-Val wheels are not the same size, so the couplers were slightly out of alignment. Replacing the larger wheels fixed all. (I'd measured the height above rail for the smaller wheels first, then just shimmed the other coupler the same amount. 

Live and learn.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to agree with Mik here, but hook/loops are only the* second* best couplers out there, these are THE best for never worrying about uncoupling:










the downside is that they can be a PITA to use in OPS, and plastic wheels are A-OK as long as you keep up on the track housecleaning, metal wheels _are_ better but you can upgrade slowly over time as cash allows, now if you really THE best, its ball-bearing wheelsets, they cut friction down to almost 0, but the caviet is that they are eye-wateringly expensive. Ask how I know this? I have 21" diameter curves, still wondering how I know that????










BTW Bachmann large dia metal wheels are a direct swap out for LGB plastics, some like Aristo the axle length can be too long for some LGB axle pockets, Bmanns are also the most affordable.


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