# Aster AD60 Beyer Garratt



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

I refer to the posting from Niagra6025 recently made on this forum of the awsome pulling power of these new batch of Aster Garratts.
Having run my Bigboy in the same enviroment we reached a point of wheel slip on the front end of the articulated set when hauling the same load,
We had a similar experience also with the Aster Allegheny.

The weight distribution on the Garratt design with the engines at each end of a 'cradle' gives it a more stable footing and although both the other contestants are massively powerful beasts one has to admit that on this occasion, (some would say on any occasion) the AD60s are well up to the job!

May be next time Aster top brass (present at the contest) will drive the Bigboy and show us how it should be done?
The video shows the load which all three locos pulled, but extras vehicles were added to the Garratt which gave it the 'crown'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq4tZkOqfLw


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Estimated count about 60 cars.....that was the "winning" pull? I know the Big Boy and Allie can easily match (plus our experience has between between 75-125 cars) that train, I must be missing something in the report as to the outcome.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Even the Berkshire or Mike can match the string of cars:


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## Dave -- Use Coal (Feb 19, 2008)

I am kind of surprized that we do not have more replys here. This looks like it could turn into a ""my locomotive will pull more than your locomotive" donnybrook. This could be at least as good a any manufacture, oil, or water preference discussion. I have seen Steve's Burk pull as many cars as his Big Boy. (The reason being they both pull all of his cars.) We must make allowance for wheel type and bearring type along with condition of track. Seems like for the conditions of the test the AD60 is the winner. I suspect this may be like the law, change one thing between one case and another and you can get different results.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

The front unit slipping on the Big Boy and Allegheny,is interesting as the full size AD60s crews used to keep the front tank as full as possible on heavy grades! same problem light footed in front.. 

Gordon.


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

OK guys lets get this straightened out a little. 

The Clash of the Titans was to determine which loco pulled the heaviest train on the day. The result was the AD60 was a clear winner. (The video does not show the AD60 pulling the winning weight but just with the initial run)

The day was not ideal since it was cool & damp with some light rain and some of the cars provided did not have decent bearings. The super track had two tight radius sections and that can be a trial for any load pulling. But the winner on the day was the AD60 which hardly slipped at all whereas the Alleghenny had front engine turning 5 times faster than the rear engine. I actually think that the Big Boy could have done a bit more with a heavier hand on the throttle but we can all be wise after the event.


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## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

As the guy who drove the BB I agree to a cetain extent with Aster UK although too much throttle naturally increases the wheel slip in the circumstances that prevailed.

Reflecting on the run afterwards and considering that the BB had pulled a heavier load on it's previous run at John Squires railway on a warm sunny day, one then wonders on the conditions theory.

The BB is of course gas fired, although it can be converted to coal burning. Many of us are used to gas firing, but concious of not running with too much of a 'roar,' or indeed running out of fuel prematurely. On the day it was important to cover distance and keep within the ground rules, but yes, maybe a bit more heat could have been applied (much easier with gas than meths.)

I am not making excuses because the AD60 won fair and square, but I have another (small) niggling doubt in my mind.

There are two gas release taps on the BB. one on top of the tank and the other in the cab. It is easier to leave this one open and adjust the more accessable valve on the tank.
Now here is the point. You really need to light the fire by sliding out the burner unit back into the cab and unless you are careful it is so easy to inadvertantly catch the tap release thereby half closing it.

Oh dear....could I have let the Bigboy supporters club down!!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Is begs the question....how many cars?

Second, was the BB able to obtain grip after slipping and then pull the set of cars equal to Garratt or just slip out of control without traction? 


Andrew
Was this situation "the AD60 which hardly slipped at all whereas the Alleghenny had front engine turning 5 times faster than the rear engine," on startup or around the tight radius curve area?


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles - I ended up adding very stiff springs to the pivot on the front engine. It allows the whole locomotive to sit lower than with the bushing that Aster used as an OEM part. However, the H8 still slips because there is too much weight on the trailing truck as the CG is too far aft. I suspect that may have been true in real life too. 

Anyway my experience is that I can easily pull trains I have a hard time starting. I have seen the same thing with Bill Cranes BB. So even if I don't know what I am doing, I know Mike M does, and that engine still slips. 

But for intellectual eddification only consider this: the bore and stroke of the Allegheny is 40% bigger than a Garrett. The weight of the loco (not including the tender) is also about 40% more. That is a huge difference in BHP at the drivers. 
So all else being equal, the Allegheny should pull significantly more. If or when it doesn't, its because it slips or needs a bigger radius. Mike Moore's track is (I think) 12 foot radius. My engine can make it around the turns, but it slows down! That may have been part of the issue. 

Anyway, its fun to think about it. I hope to see you this weekend. Maybe we should try to pull 200 cars up that curving ruling grade.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By AsterUK on 13 Oct 2009 02:20 AM 
OK guys lets get this straightened out a little. 

The Clash of the Titans was to determine which loco pulled the heaviest train on the day. The result was the AD60 was a clear winner. (The video does not show the AD60 pulling the winning weight but just with the initial run)

The day was not ideal since it was cool & damp with some light rain and some of the cars provided did not have decent bearings. The super track had two tight radius sections and that can be a trial for any load pulling. But the winner on the day was the AD60 which hardly slipped at all whereas the Alleghenny had front engine turning 5 times faster than the rear engine. I actually think that the Big Boy could have done a bit more with a heavier hand on the throttle but we can all be wise after the event.
John
Looking forward to some good running even in the rain. Seems as if there will be alot of freight in the yards with the weather predictions. Kind of like the 2 Nor'easters we ran in with Mike's portable. It will be a challenged up the grade on wet rails on Jim's track

UK - 

I thought so, when Andrew was talking about the track arrangements. The contest premise of slipping wheels I thought was only if the engine stalled and kept slipping with no traction power. I certainly agree about the weight distribution on the Garratt as to balance and traction to the drivers but it had to be something else such as the track in favor of the Garratt given less than 100 cars to which I believe all the engines can pull easily.


That is what I was seeking to understand and how many cars caused slippage/stalling of the engine(s). I have seen both engines (Allie/BB) slip on start up but recover and pull a big train. I know of a pull involving 150 fully load coal cars that demonstrated much more capability.



Anyways, GREAT PLUMES this weekend!!


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave -- Use Coal on 12 Oct 2009 08:11 PM 







I am kind of surprized that we do not have more replys here. This looks like it could turn into a ""my locomotive will pull more than your locomotive" donnybrook. This could be at least as good a any manufacture, oil, or water preference discussion. I have seen Steve's Burk pull as many cars as his Big Boy. (The reason being they both pull all of his cars.) We must make allowance for wheel type and bearring type along with condition of track. Seems like for the conditions of the test the AD60 is the winner. I suspect this may be like the law, change one thing between one case and another and you can get different results.








Hey Dave. That was when I had about 60 cars. Now over a 100. A while back, there were some good deals to be had on MDC cars and hoppers. I took advantage of it before they dried up. When time permits, we will get them all out and see what happens. I may have to change couplers though. At about 60, some of the OEM hook and loop couplers on the MDC cars start to break







. I added metal wheels but not good couplers.


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