# New Bachmann Annie died PLEASE HELP!



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Was running my new Annie, had the smoke going, looking and sounding sweet pulling 7 cars nicely on my indoor layout when it suddenly stopped. Checked the track power (with another loco) and all is ok. Noticed the headlight and smoke stopped also, which leads me to believe it is not the motor but probably some form of circuit protection? or a wire came off...some form of "open circuit". Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? I contacted Bachmanns service via e-mail and probably wont hear back from them until tomorrow. Hope this thing isn't down for the holidays.
Don


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Don, that's a pretty heavy load for the Annie to pull around the short curves. It would be my guess that that it's overloaded. My success with the Annie and for comfortable pulling loads is 3 coaches and that's on 10 foot diameter curves. Looks like you're running 5 foot diameter and the flange drag between the wheels and track is a lot. A real lot.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don, I would agree with your preliminary assessment, it's a power problem, and somewhere between the wheel treads and the main board. I believe the power pickup is more than just a few wheels. 

Unfortunately you would have to disassemble it to inspect it completely. If a cursory examination of the wires from the wheels underneath reveals nothing, it's time to return or tear apart. 

By the way, overloading COULD make the loco draw more current and COULD make a weak solder joint fail. I agree with Stan on the practical load that loco can take... you are most likely overloading it both electrically and mechanically. 

Regards, Greg


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Ooohh no! You smoked it! 
I would not expect to hear from Bachmann any time soon. You're better off calling them next week. 
Deleting your post ain't a bad idea either! 

-Brian


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 26 Nov 2009 10:26 PM 
Ooohh no! You smoked it! 
I would not expect to hear from Bachmann any time soon. You're better off calling them next week. 
Deleting your post ain't a bad idea either! 

-Brian 


Why should he delete his post?
seems like a perfectly reasonable post to me.. 


Scot


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Scotty, 
In case Bachmann see the number of cars he is pulling.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 26 Nov 2009 11:17 PM 
Scotty, 
In case Bachmann see the number of cars he is pulling.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would open the front of the boiler and switch the switch back and forth a few times since lights are not working and switches can get dirty. 

Just last week at a train show, I had 2 internal switches get flakuy in rolling stock *(one engine and 1 caboose.)


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, This loco doesn't have the second switch. Only one for the smoke. Where the second switch would go there is just a hole. 

Guys, I hear you about the load, but the train did not seem to labor and a little detail I forgot to mention, the train ran fine untill I turned on the smoke, 3 times around the loop with smoke on and then it quit. Previously I ran it quite a bit (20 minutes non stop) with no problem. As to the load, My little LGB Stanz pulls this same train for hours, and my new Aristo Rogers also pulls same train for hours. I suspect the smoke pushed the amp handling capacity over the top. Burned wire or solder joint is what I suspect as no one seems to know about Bachmann using circuit protection. Back to load, I see some of you guys pulling 20+ cars!! on a grade! 7 should be cake


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like pickup trouble to me.

Turn it over. You'll find a row of screws starting at the back holding the bottom on. There are a couple under the pilot too. Once you have the bottom off, you'll see all the pickups, and I expect you'll find the problem under there. The Annie is very simple inside.

One thing to remember: If you happen to have the pilot truck turned around backwards when you put it on the track, you'll have a short. I took a white paint pen and put a dot on the side so I could see that it was the right way when I put it on track.

While you have it open, put a dab of labelle gear grease, not the Bachman pink stuff, on the inner gear that you can't reach through the rubber plug. This should keep it running for decades.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi 
It does sound like something fried but it might be worth a check to have a look at the pickup wheels on the loco. I have found that hauling several plastic wheeled cars around tighter curves on an indoor loop seems to lay down a film that can coat the pickups making the engine sluggish and run poorly. It usually takes more than that to stop an engine cold but maybe it just couldn't take it anymore and quit, more than likely though something is fried. Take the bottom off for a quick look at the pickup points and wire inspection.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

It's got to be a broken connection between the main power pick-up. It has to be. Seven cars on a relatively neutral grade is _not_ going to overload the wiring to the point that it will melt the solder (or at least it shouldn't!) The fact that you aren't getting _anything _pretty much isolates it to the main power line. If you have a volt meter you should be able to figure the problem out right quick but it might be quite obvious just from a cursory visual inspection. D_on't_ expect help from Bachmann's service dept. unless you send the whole unit in and I just think that you can probably fix it yourself in a jiffy. Good luck!


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Don, one other thing you could easily check... The main pickups from the wheels are 2 brass pieces that have a small plug in that then feeds to the motor and the rest of the locomotive. 

If you could pull the bottom of the locomotive off, I think it's 3 short screws and one long one in front that holds the boiler on. When you get the bottom off, see if each of the wires (red and black) are attached to the brass pickup strip. If it did heat up, that's the weakest point in the system.

Again, just some additional thoughts. 

Sure hope you get it resolved.


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

I agree with Stan. It's almost certain to be the push on clip to the brass strips. I took an Annie apart (for A DCC conversion) put it all back together only to find that the wire had broken off and needed to be soldered back onto the brass sleave. As has been said, the wiring in the Annie is about as simple as it gets and what you need to look at is easy to get to once the botton panel is off. 

Peter.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The main pickups from the wheels are 2 brass pieces that have a small plug in that then feeds to the motor and the rest of the locomotive. 
Just to elaborate, for anyone who hasn't taken one of these apart, the pickups are the brass bearings on the axle hubs of the front and rear wheels. The strips rest on the bearings and have a couple of thin wires from the motor with tiny plugs on the end. These push into sockets on the strips (so you can completely remove the bottom with the strips.) 

The two wires from the pickups are very thin and I recall hearing they can get fried if you make the engine work too hard. As Stan says, pop off the bottom plate and take a look. 

George has a bunch of power pickup issues covered on his 'tips' page: *http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1...ml#pickups* 
Here's one of his photos, showing the strips:


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Annie lives! Thanks to the encouragement of you folks I took the bottom cover off...3 screws as you said..and also just as you said one of the wires had broken off one of the 2 long contact strips, moved the cover a little and the other broke off! Got out the old weller gun and soldered both back in place. Back on the track and ran for 30 minutes with smoke and all seems well. I've taken 5 lgb locos apart, and one Aristo, and this Annie seems by far the easiest. (Aristo Rogers the hardest). I'm now looking forward to converting to battery (don't tell Jerry)







Again my thanks to all. Regarding the load, I might try connecting an amp meter in line (at the transformer) to see just how much this thing pulls. If I do, I'll post the results.
Don


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, Peter..... Great minds or what??????????????????????









Maybe we better not answer that, eh...


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay, I'll say it for you! You da men!! Great minds indeed!! You nailed it pretty much dead on and have now not only helped one MLS'r get his locomotive running but have now answered a question that is bound to pop up again! Woo hoo!! Yazza yazza!! Oh yeah, who's your daddy?? (Ummm.......maybe a _little_ too much?)


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Ha HA Stan, Peter, Pete, Greg, Todd, You guys are the greatest. (Steve, you might want to back off on the coffee just a little) 
Those push on pins are definitely a weak spot and they have now been eliminated on mine. Hopefully now I can really put Annie to work....how about 12 cars???....nah, I'll stick with 7.....plus a caboose.....maybe another tender to hold battery & rc stuff...... Like Rockefeller, "all I need is one more" car!


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Don. 
The existing Annie tender is plenty big enough to hold all the batteries, R/C and sound.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Got out the old weller gun and soldered both back in place. 
Don - next time you have the cover off, consider replacing the wires (or doubling them up) as they are pretty thin. 

have now answered a question that is bound to pop up again 
Yeah - so where's the FAQ Wiki ? [See FAQ thread.] 

The existing Annie tender is plenty big enough to hold all the batteries 
My ten-wheeler has the batteries inside the loco instead of the cast weight. (I also added a lead lump to bring it back up to same level of adhesion so TOC couldn't complain.)


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony, I'm sure the tender is big enough but 2 would be more "macho"







(and I happen to have another identical Bachmann tender that will just need a paint job to match).

Yes Peter, those wires did look a little light. The motor itself also looked pretty wimpy. The motors I'm used to seeing in the LGBs are quite a bit larger and typically are used in pairs for a loco this size. On the other hand, in spite of its wimpy size, this new Annie seems to pull nicely on my level indoor track.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I have 12 Duracell's in my tender. Runs the loco all day, with sound, pulling whatever I want her to pull. The Annie is one nice little machine.


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Once you wear out the drivetrain on your Annie (Which will take YEARS....), consider upgrading your drives to the Barry's Big Train drives, much beefier motors and gearboxes... I'm currently attempting to wear out two Big Haulers so I can upgrade.. My new Annie is still too new and too nice for me to worry about that yet on her..


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Great minds or what
I was just elaborating on your extensive solution...









The motor itself also looked pretty wimpy
This generation motor seems pretty robust, though it may not look like it. It is capable of spinning the wheels when you add too many cars or too steep a hill, which is what you want. 

Barry's drive is great, they tell me, but as Dave says - wait until yours wears out.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 26 Nov 2009 07:44 PM 
Was running my new Annie, had the smoke going, looking and sounding sweet pulling 7 cars nicely on my indoor layout when it suddenly stopped. Checked the track power (with another loco) and all is ok. Noticed the headlight and smoke stopped also, which leads me to believe it is not the motor but probably some form of circuit protection? or a wire came off...some form of "open circuit". Can anyone tell me how I should proceed? I contacted Bachmanns service via e-mail and probably wont hear back from them until tomorrow. Hope this thing isn't down for the holidays.
Don 









Sir - please feel free to flame me if I'm wrong, but from your description your loco is not an 'Annie' but a regular 'Big Hauler'. Expecting it to haul a load like this around the tight curves on your track is, IMO, expecting rather too much. And BTW, if you ever contacted Bachmann on one day by e-mail, and got any kind of a response within three months, you could count yourself pretty lucky - that is certainly more than I ever got out of them..

Glad that the experts and you together got a solution to the problem for you.

Best

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

OK Tac, I'm no expert, What is an Annie....or more to the point, what is the difference between an Annie and my loco which you are calling a "Big Hauler". I was under the impression that an Annie was a "stand off and squint scale model of one of the Baldwin engines in a 4-6-0 configuration, but what do I know! I'm just an auto mechanic from Jersey







....here is some text from an e-bay add:..."If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....."



*Nicknamed the "Annie" by Bachmann enthusiasts Bachmann offers this Special Anniversay Edition 4-6-0 Steam Locomotive with the following features: operating headlight, smoke, speed synchronized sound, state of the art drive mechanism, metal siderods, seperate detail parts as well as seperate piping and all metal handrails. This 4-6-0 is a locomotive that Mr. Baldwin & Company would be proud to call their own. *
How about it experts is Tac right?


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, I did a little research. Many of the Bachmann ads for their Anniversary addition boast that these trains are nick named the Annie by enthusiasts. It's a little unclear if they are referring to the old faithfull, very popular, tried & true, been used since Moby was a guppy, Baldwin 4-6-0. or were they just reffering to the new Annaversary edition of the old tried and true, yada yada? If the elitists that own anniversary editions want to keep the name Annie for themselves, I think they're in for a tuff time, I'm sure I'm not the first to call a "Non-annaversary" 4-6-0 an Annie and I'll bet I wont be the last.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you go to the Bachmann website and look at the pictures of the Anniversary locomotive, you will see that it has a lot more detail parts than the Big Hauler. This is particularly noticeable in the drive rods and valve gear. There are probably other details, but they aren't that noticeable in the picture.

Chuck N


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

*Posted By sailbode on 28 Nov 2009 03:31 PM 
** OK, I did a little research. Many of the Bachmann ads for their Anniversary addition boast that these trains are nick named the Annie by enthusiasts. It's a little unclear if they are referring to the old faithful, very popular, tried & true, been used since Moby was a guppy, Baldwin 4-6-0. or were they just reffering to the new Annaversary edition of the old tried and true, yada yada? If there are elitists that own anniversary editions and want to keep the name Annie for themselves, I think they're in for a tuff time, I'm sure I'm not the first to call a "Non-anniversary" 4-6-0 an Annie and I'll bet I wont be the last. *
*Incidentally, some of the new Heavy Hauler sets come with an Anniversary editions.*


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes. The Anniversary Edition, Annie, is a highly detailed Big Hauler. Mine has metal rods and metal walschert valve gear, and ALL the parts move. There are details and valve handles everywhere, though mine lost a few in a dive to a parking lot a few years ago. I love running slow and watching all those parts working.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Would somebody please slap me! I'm such a jerk! Drinking coffee this morning it just occurred to me where the name Annie came from! Annie- versary! Mine'll never be called Annie again. So what shall we call non-annie 4-6-0s??..can't call it a Heavy Hauler as some of the Heavy Hauler sets come with Annies. I see some engines are called Connie?? can someone tell me what a Connie is? and what actually is a Mogul. Ah this model RR lingo is gonna take me a while!
D


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

One more thing befor I run off to church, I see since 1988 Bachmann offers a "Spectrum" series which seem to be more $$$ and presumably a better product? What's the deal? and are the real Annies one of the Spectrum line?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The Big Haulers are often called Bug Maulers". 
The 4-6-0 wheel arrangment was commonly called a Ten Wheeler. 
"Connie" is the name given to the Mexican prototype Bachmann Consolidtion. 
There are others such as the Dizzy. 
A Mogul is a 2-6-0. 

This may help you. 

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/wheels.shtml


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 28 Nov 2009 03:12 PM 
OK Tac, I'm no expert, What is an Annie....or more to the point, what is the difference between an Annie and my loco which you are calling a "Big Hauler". I was under the impression that an Annie was a "stand off and squint scale model of one of the Baldwin engines in a 4-6-0 configuration, but what do I know! I'm just an auto mechanic from Jersey







....here is some text from an e-bay add:..."If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....."



*Nicknamed the "Annie" by Bachmann enthusiasts Bachmann offers this Special Anniversay Edition 4-6-0 Steam Locomotive with the following features: operating headlight, smoke, speed synchronized sound, state of the art drive mechanism, metal siderods, seperate detail parts as well as seperate piping and all metal handrails. This 4-6-0 is a locomotive that Mr. Baldwin & Company would be proud to call their own. *
How about it experts is Tac right? 




tac* is* right. tac has an 'Annie' - in White Pass livery. tac has had it for about ten years. tac DOES make mistakes, but not too often.









tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 29 Nov 2009 05:34 AM 
One more thing befor I run off to church, I see since 1988 Bachmann offers a "Spectrum" series which seem to be more $$$ and presumably a better product? What's the deal? and are the real Annies one of the Spectrum line? 
In order of asking - 

1. The Bachmann 'Spectrum' series, introduced in *1998*, in large scale, are all made to scale of 1/20.3 - also known as Fn3. This uses the 45mm gauge track to replicate the 3 foot gauge of Colorado and other narrow gauge rail lines, mostly in the North American/Canadian logging scene. 'Spectrum' models show an extremely high level of [often fragile] detail - in other words, they are not really suitable for younger train fans.

2. Locomotives in the large-scale 'Spectrum' line include the two and three truck Shays, Climax and Heisler geared logging locomotives, the Mexican prototype 'Connie' [consolidation] 2-8-0, and the recently introduced D&RGW K-27 Mike [mikado] and articulated 2-6-6-2 Mallet. The tiny 'Indie' [industrial] mogul has also been included in this list.

3. They are the top of the line in the Bachmann production stardom list - as are the H0 and On3 models with the same 'Spectrum' designation.

4. The real 'Annies' are not part of the 'Spectrum' line-up, for the reason stated in para 1 and because they are also made to a different scale.

Hope this helps.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

sailbode

Maybe this will be of interest.

Locomotive Wheel Classification[/b]


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Mine'll never be called Annie again. 
Don, 
A lot of folk call all the Bachmann 4-6-0s "Annies" so don't slap yourself too hard. I (and others) tend to refer to them as "ten-wheelers", which is common railroad slang for a 4-6-0. 

There were at least 5 generations of ten-wheeler plus the 'Anniversary' edition - details are on George Schreyers site (link above on the first page.) 

and because they are also made to a different scale 
Tac should have mentioned that the Bachmann "Big Hauler" line, which includes a lot of train sets and separate items _*not*_ labelled 'Spectrum Series' are all made to a scale of 1:22.5, which is an old, old scale (gauge-3 if you want to look it up,) that LGB chose when it started all this about 30+ years ago.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

To further muddy the waters, the Annie's detailing is _very _near _Spectrum_ levels! It is at least as detailed as the Indie and the original 2-4-2T Columbia that was labeled "Spectrum" (but wasn't 1:20.3), at least the _engine_ is! The_ tender _is another matter entirely! The coal load is a joke! It looks like dried oatmeal that was spay painted! The hook and loop connection between the tender and engine is _so_ LGB toylike and should have been changed to a drawbar with footplate on top....but wasn't. The rivets on the tender are the same as on the original Big Hauler meaning they are too big! What _was _done was the minimal necessary so that the tender would get by matched to the re-tooled engine! It now has a working reverse lamp and enhanced coupler drawbar but that's about it. Most of these deficiencies can be overcome with a modicum of kit bashing and detailing. I now have an Annie that looks right at home next to my Connie and K-27. I have modified the rear of the tender so that the coupler is now body mounted at the proper height for F scale.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton - 

...Tac should have mentioned that the Bachmann "Big Hauler" line, which includes a lot of train sets and separate items _*not*_ labelled 'Spectrum Series' are all made to a scale of 1:22.5... 


BAAAAAD tac, WICKED tac! In fact, I wrote 'they are also made to a different scale'. I am abjectly remorseful to have to admit that I neglected to mention the scale... 

In spite of the rather odd scale for US stock, it CAN be made into a very convincing replication of a three-foot loco with the cab enlarged, as you see. The use of real coal on the tender helps tremendously, and is a cheap fix. The passenger cars that go with it in its original scale of 1/22.5, alas, are positively minute by comparison with their 1/20.3 equivalents, as a look at recent posts will show.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm amazed at the detail on the Annie, but it is a bit small for the 1:20 group.

I put a BBT drive in mine, but kept the valve gear. New cab, boiler, domes, pilot, stack, and tender and all of a sudden it's 1:20!


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Bruce Chandler on 29 Nov 2009 02:17 PM 
I'm amazed at the detail on the Annie, but it is a bit small for the 1:20 group.

I put a BBT drive in mine, but kept the valve gear. New cab, boiler, domes, pilot, stack, and tender and all of a sudden it's 1:20! 










Runs like a watch and looks a million $$$!

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

New cab, boiler, domes, pilot, stack, and tender 

but kept the valve gear

Bruce - just thought you got those two statements wrong way 'round.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 29 Nov 2009 05:30 AM 
Would somebody please slap me! I'm such a jerk! Drinking coffee this morning it just occurred to me where the name Annie came from! Annie- versary! Mine'll never be called Annie again. So what shall we call non-annie 4-6-0s??..can't call it a Heavy Hauler as some of the Heavy Hauler sets come with Annies. I see some engines are called Connie?? can someone tell me what a Connie is? and what actually is a Mogul. Ah this model RR lingo is gonna take me a while!
D 








I would call them *"Non-Annie Big Hauler"* and *"Annie Big Hauler"*.. yes, both are technically Big Haulers! which leads to the confusion..
but if you simply say "annie" or "non-annie" Big Hauler then its instantly clear which version you are referring to..
I have seen those terms used a lot, IMO its the best way to go..otherwise if you just say "Big Hauler" someone will have to ask "which version",
then you have to explain..it saves a lot of time to just say "annie" or "non-annie" right from the start! 
and everyone understands what that means..

"Big Hauler" is just the Bachmann name for the Large Scale 4-6-0..
"Big Hauler" only applies to these particular models..not to the prototype.
in the real world, the 4-6-0 wheel arrangement is called the "Ten Wheeler" type.
"Mogul" is a 2-6-0
"Consolidation" is a 2-8-0..etc..

"Connie" is the Bachmann Outside Frame 2-8-0.."Connie" for "Consolidation":











"Indie" is the Bachmann "Industrial Mogul" , also called the "Mining Mogul".. "Indie" for Industrial:












Not to be confused with the Bachmann "Spectrum Mogul":









which is a totally different loco than "Indie"
and has no nickname..it is simply called the "Spectrum Mogul" to differentiate it from the newer "Indie".
(*any* 2-6-0 is a Mogul..Mogul is the name of the wheel arrangement, like any 2-8-0 is a Consolidation.
Bachmann makes two different Large Scale Moguls, the "Mining Mogul" (aka "Indie") and the "Spectrum Mogul"..both have the 2-6-0 wheel arrangement, and so both are a "mogul")





"Dizzie" is the Bachmann 1/20.3 scale GE center cab diesel.."Dizzie" for Diesel of course:













And now there is a second Bachmann Large Scale Diesel!
the Davenport:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-...uctId=2986

If it hasnt already been said, logiically this must be "Davey"! 

Scot


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 30 Nov 2009 01:17 PM 


And now there is a second Bachmann Large Scale Diesel!
the Davenport:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-...uctId=2986

If it hasnt already been said, logiically this must be "Davey"! 

Scot






I'd just call it "the couch"...


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