# To the users and moderators of MLS: what happened to the rules?



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This topic/thread will probably go completely bonkers in a couple of days, but here goes.

What happened to the "rules" on this site? Not just enforcement by the moderators, but the members following it?

I just read a thread where several people are commiserating about how bad things have gotten.

But, these people are calling "the bad guys":


"idiots"
"alpha dogs"
"bastards"

Yes, so these people are doing EXACTLY the same thing, making personal attacks. If you believe that not naming someone, but unambiguously describing them is "legal", that's just plain wrong. 


I've been called Alpha Dog over and over on the Aristo site. The "ruse" of describing someone without using the name is BS, and should be unacceptable. I don't have these problems on the forums I manage. A personal attack, FROM ANYONE FOR ANY REASON IS UNACCEPTABLE.


If all the "good guys" would follow courtesy themselves, and stop others names, maybe things would not be so contentious.

These guys are making personal attacks too. So now who is right?

Yeah, things have gotten more discourteous, but all the self-righteous people making personal attacks are in the same category. 

Greg


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg; 

Sometimes I think stuff that would run "like water off a duck's back" comes across much harder in the printed word and via a public forum. I messed up a time of two during the early days here, but I do try to measure things more carefully now before I hit submit. 

I could tease a good train buddy about being a "diesel lover," and he would come back at me about "those grossly oversized American Flyers" that I ran. Both of our jibes got blunted somewhat as each of us switched to large scale. But we knew each other and also set limits on our jibes. 

I do hope that things will settle out. I know that people get passionate about their hobbies. I've actually seen toy train collectors give the "uppity nose" look to scale models, and wondered "What's with that?" Well, probably said too much already. 

Best wishes, 
David Meashey


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

I wasn't calling anyone a *******. It is a phrase that has been around for a long time. Context is the key here.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Rules? 
We don't NEED no stinkin' rules as long as we have the old six-shooter handy.......


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Greg, us here discussing what is wrong in this forum will not give any positive result. 
most people in the world behave themselves "good", if they are fearing consequences of "bad" behaviour. 
that implies some kind of authority. 
and that is the problem here. 
as the forum master/owner (for whatever reasons) is not very present, there is a vacuum of "power". 
this vacuum gets filled by the "big shots". - but they are no homogenous group. so faction "war" is gaining a foothold. 

result: insult...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with everyone except TOC (I've converted to automatics ha ha!). 

Well, I actually disagree with your first sentence Korm, I believe WE could all try harder, and that could "correct" the course of the good ship MLS. That's why I addressed this to the general membership also. 

Personally I'm trying... it may not seem so, but I am, although the name calling and abuse (like being told to go F*** myself on the forum) does not help anything in any way. 

People do however, need to learn to not take a flawed design in a locomotive personally, and I cannot agree that sugar coating problems helps the hobby. 

Stick to objective facts. Yes most discussions center on problems, because those are the things we need to address and fix, and help each other make better. 


Regards, Greg


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

He who lives in glass house should not throw rocks


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Six-shooters work in the old-west ideology. 
Still have a .45 colt. 

But, a 1911ACP is what I use (NOT an A-1).


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, in some back channel communication I have been having, also: 

"two wrongs don't make a right" 

and please don't get mad about a religious quote: 

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone".... 

All good rules to live by. 

Greg 

p.s. I have a vintage Browning, I'll have to give you a call TOC, had a few questions, my dad just traded me for my S&W model 19... and took all my Hydrashocks.. drat


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07 Feb 2011 01:54 PM 
I've been called Alpha Dog over and over on the Aristo site. The "ruse" of describing someone without using the name is BS, and should be unacceptable. 

Greg 




Hello Greg,

In this case, as you know, I am the person who used the term "Alpha Dog." 

When I wrote the post where I included that term it just happened to be a term that seemed to fit with the general message I was trying to communicate. While you may find this hard to believe I have never seen any reference to you on the Aristo site as an alpha dog or as anything else. I occasionally visit the Aristo site but I only look at a small percentage of what is posted there as I am usually focused on a specific product or situation when I go there.

I have considered you to be a friend and I would not call a friend an alpha dog or anything else with any maliciousness intended. I was surprised to find here that you thought I was making a personal attack on you and for that I apologize.

I am not a devious person. If I have something to say to or about someone I try to be very clear what my intended message is. I have your email address and you have mine. If there was something I was really upset with about you I would have communicated it via private email.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No Jerry, it's the term I object to, I did not think you were meaning to refer to me, but others on this forum have used that phrase on the Aristo site, and they did mean me. 

No problem, and it's the words and language I'm really objecting to. 

It's like throwing gasoline on a fire. I get upset over stuff too, but "fighting back" in a war of name just makes it worse in my opinion. 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Did I miss something???? I've been working on the trains too much again???? 
I'm repainting a passenger train for Doc. and rewiring some critters for the grandkids. And my Northern, Mac70ace,,


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

I agree with armorsmith 

"He who lives in glass house should not throw rocks" 

You are a wealth of knowledge and well respected in this forum but have pushed your weight around as well and made sure that you put me in my place before Greg. I am sure that I am not the only one but I do not care. There are too many good people to worry about the few.

Let it all roll of your back and enjoy the hobby.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 07 Feb 2011 04:42 PM 



Hello Greg,

I am the person who used the term "Alpha Dog." 
I am not a devious person. 
Regards,

Jerry


Okay.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh Marty you just woke up? later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been trying to load up photos but it says too much static on the forums.??? 

You know, folks talk about how bad it is, well Sat night i went into the bathroom and did not come out for 4 HOURS!!! It was so painful.... My meds caused my pipes to plug up and man!!!! You talk about needing rootoruter..... Corn gives texture yes, but rocky mountains...... God... And I could not even get down on my knees.


Once old faithfull finally blew!!!! Thank ya Lord....

DON'T light no match...
I now understand what a woman feels like when a baby is in the birth connal and ya aten't dialated enough...
I was singing in the shower then...


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

We quite often think of English as being a simple language, but, really, it isn't. Voice inflections also has to be taken into account. For instance, if you ask me if I like peas, I could answer: "No," or *NO!!!* or even !^*& the #%[email protected] NO!" Spoken, it is easy to use just the simple word "No" to express any of the previous. 

Interestingly enough, most people find it difficult to understand sung lyrics on the radio or listening to a CD, but can understand them clearly when watching someone sing in person or on a video. We watch people's mouths move as well as their inflections and body language. 

All of that is absent here. 

Recently, a friend sent me an email in response to something I said, and used the phrase "I guess that's more important." How do you take that? As a sarcastic remark, or a sympathetic one? Easy to understand spoken English, not so easy to understand in type. 

Another example, I could ask my friend Marty what "sattic" means simply because I really don't get it or because I'm making a snarky remark about his spelling. When it is probably a typo anyway. But it's obvious, I think, that everyone sees how asking that could go upside down and cause friction, whether intentional or not. 

And, of course, people do things "in the heat of the moment" or out of misunderstanding. Or simply because you don't "like" someone you've never met. 

I like this site, because there's hundreds of years of experience in Large Scale knowledge here, and that's just TOC! Now, the question is, if I put: "J/K" after that, he knows I'm just giving him a compliment and trying to be funny. But, it would be easy to take that statement out of context, and have him become quite angry, depending on perceived context. 

IMAO. 

Robert


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

SPEAKING AS MY SELF 

GOOD GOSH AND MIGHTY JOE FRIDAY WILL YOU PEOPLE GROW UP.

My mother always use to tell me " You know how go get a guys goat?.....Watch where he ties it" 

It that went over you head the get up on a ladder and try again.

*THEY ONLY DO IT TO ANOY YOU AND THEY SUCEEDED. *

I am now probably going to get yelled at for inciting a riot because of what I just said what I just said but I am sick of this crap.

Go suck a egg 

JJ 


PS Rember the smacK down I got the last time we had this dicusion? 

PS I sorry but I wrote this in agner.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

See ya'all was typing while I was currecting me spell'in. 
I need to go and clean my airgun. 

if you seen this tiny laptop I'm boring. I use two pencils to hit the keys.
night john boy!!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, doggone it, Marty, ya fixded "static", but still mis-spilled "trying!" 

Night Grandpa! 

LOL! 

Robert


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By NTCGRR on 07 Feb 2011 05:53 PM 
Did I miss something???? I've been working on the trains too much again???? 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I know this is going to open a new can of worms but if people had to use their real name it would solve a lot of problems.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 07 Feb 2011 06:54 PM 
I've been trying to load up photos but it says too much static on the forums.??? 

You know, folks talk about how bad it is, well Sat night i went into the bathroom and did not come out for 4 HOURS!!! It was so painful.... My meds caused my pipes to plug up and man!!!! You talk about needing rootoruter..... Corn gives texture yes, but rocky mountains...... God... And I could not even get down on my knees.


Once old faithfull finally blew!!!! Thank ya Lord....

DON'T light no match...
I now understand what a woman feels like when a baby is in the birth connal and ya aten't dialated enough...
I was singing in the shower then...





Marty work some berry Metamucile into your daily diet, you believed me about the Altoids, believe me the berry stuff really works.

But then again maybe it is a way to get caught up on your reading being in there for 4 hours!
Oh and if you want diverticulitis keep bearing down for a BM, thats' what causes "tics", forcing untill the tissues tear! 
Then you will become a friend of Cipro!


Oh and you did not miss anything...just the usual whinning! Boys will be boys! Or is it nancy boys will be nancy boys!







Heheheh

Bubba


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty - two words: Dried Papaya



Man I guess I missed everything again...been to busy studying *Marx!







*


Louis Marx that is. Some of yuz will recoqnize that name


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I prefer Groucho.  

Later, 

K


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 07 Feb 2011 09:44 PM 
I prefer Groucho.  

Later, 

K








He didnt make trains


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 07 Feb 2011 08:13 PM 
I know this is going to open a new can of worms but if people had to use their real name it would solve a lot of problems. 



I use a "real" name. It just doesn't happen to be the one my momma gave me. Some people simply get their jollies by being abrasive. Others are just sort of oblivious to social norms. "Real names" won't change that. But MIGHT just help you get robbed if you got lots of nice toys and mention that you aren't going to be home this weekend. Takes about 2 minutes to get an address, your political party, pictures of your kids, even an aerial photo of your house these days working just from your name and city.... Why help the bums any more than you have to? It may also keep you from getting hired for that great job over something you forgot you ever posted


Want my 'real name', ask nice, it ain't no big secret. I'm not hiding. INSIST I use it? Yeah, sure.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty old Friend, Far, Far too much information.................................








As for the rest of this thread, I'm not getting involved. 

Rod


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 07 Feb 2011 08:13 PM 
I know this is going to open a new can of worms but if people had to use their real name it would solve a lot of problems. 
Stinky old worms at that..

I didn't know when I joined that I would be judged by a name on a forum..

Shad has stated that there is no way to change'em...

So your comment helps how?

John


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

There is no point in getting involved (which i guess now, i am) because this like all other posts, will turn into a flame war. There are so many different types of people here it's bound to happen, but my God! Once in awhile some of you just need to shut up and walk away, or turn ur computer off. I have seen arguements over the dumbest things. Track power vs. battery, brass vs. stainless, aristo vs. usa etc etc etc. Sometimes reading these posts reminds me of my little kids fighting. Some people here are overbearing, some idiots and some are just plain **** stirrers who can't let the pot settle. For the most part 99% of us are ok. Who cares if the guy quoted something that was off by .0005 millimeters? Who cares if someone asks the same question that has been asked 10 trillion times before? Who cares if people spell things wrong or use improper grammer or puncuation? if it annoys you, don't respond, if you don't like their thread, don't respond! if you disagree don't respond, or POLITELY state ur case then shut up about it. But for Christ's sake GROW UP! If you are corrected or given advice or tips, it's not an attack on ur modeling abilities or ur moral character. it's just that, advice and tips! And if you ask a question, don't get mad at the answer, or the lack thereof, remember YOU asked! At 36 i assume I am one of the younger people on this forum but reading some of these petty fights makes it seem like those people are teenagers! be a good person and be good to each other, it makes the world (and this forum) a far better place to be in. 

Terry


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you Terry! I really do try to be one of the sane ones. But sometimes I step in it without really meaning to. Aaaand sometimes it gets really hard to resist giving back a 'usual suspect' a little taste of their own. Even if they can usually beat me at being a jerk just from having more practice at it.


It's oft suggested that if you're tempted to flame "some yahoo that really deserves it", then go ahead and type it out, but don't hit "send" - Get up, and go do something you enjoy for 20 minutes or so until you have your equilibrium back, then reread your OWN post. Sometimes it actually works - if you didn't actually spend those 20 minutes honing your barbs.....


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