# 32/45mm dual guage



## BrianTFowler (Sep 20, 2012)

I tend to think of large scale dual gauge as F & Fn3. SVRR offers a 32/45mm dual gauge, does anyone know of some examples of people running with this type of track? is it just to run G and O scales in the same space?


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

Can't help with the SVRR track question, but F & Fn3 designate 1:20.3 scale.

Fn3 designates 3' gauge prototypes running on 45mm gauge track.

F scale standard gauge prototype models would run on 2.78" gauge model track.

32mm track in F scale would be equivalent to ~25" gauge on the prototype. Probably close enough to call it Fn2.

So the track you mention would support two narrow gauge routes: 3 ft. gauge, and 2 ft. gauge.

Possibly a prototype somewhere.

Happy RRing,

Jerry


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

In the live steam community, the track is used to run two different scales.

45mm gauge is used to run most of the narrow gauge prototypes. This includes F (15mm scale), 16mm scale (used by G1MRA in UK), 7/8 scale (2 foot prototypes), and odds and ends.

32mm gauge is used to run gauge 1 trains. These represent mainline trains at standard gauge. Also some of the British locos use this gauge.

This makes the narrow gauge engines, quite often, as large or larger than the mainline engines. Definitely a reversal of real life  .


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Rich,
That sounds backwards to me!
Around here 45mm gauge is for mainline in 1/32, 1/30,5,1/29etc., and narrow gauge 1/20.3, 1/22, 1/24 etc.
32mm gauge is for the narrow gauge that fit, and also for Gauge 0 scale.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

I have installed Sunset Valley dual gauge track on all three of the portable layouts I have built.
45 mm (and we're the only branch of our hobby that does this that I know of - the track gauge remains the same, the scale of the trains changes) represents 4' 8 1/2" gauge in 1:32 and 1:29 (sort of) scales, 3' narrow gauge in 1:20 scale and 2' narrow gauge in 1:13 (7/8") scale. 
32 mm represents 2' narrow gauge in 1:19 (16 mm) scale and 15" narrow gauge in 1:13 scale.
There are also a number of folks who run antique O gauge trains on the 32 mm gauge track which in their scale represents standard gauge.
Confused yet? Maybe there are others.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

BrianTFowler said:


> I tend to think of large scale dual gauge as F & Fn3. SVRR offers a 32/45mm dual gauge, does anyone know of some examples of people running with this type of track? is it just to run G and O scales in the same space?


Brian,
I had dual and triple gauge 1:22.5 (before f scale became prevalent.) The 45mm was 3ft and the 32mm was 2ft, as I had some Mamod and Faller stuff that worked on it. The 3rd gauge was 64mm, otherwise known as gauge-3 , for std gauge trains, which I never built.

It allowed me to run std gauge trains at 1:32 & 1;29 as well. Couldn't resist the Aristo Pacific for $300 when it was introduced.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

David,

The 32mm is for gauge 1 locos and cars. They represent mainline in the US (4 foot 8.5 inch gauge). Since the scale is smaller the 32mm works out to be the correct gauge for those cars.

Many standard gauge engines are gauged for 32mm also. Asters are run with that gauge by many of my friends. But the engines are still a smaller scale and look about the same size as my 1:20.3 engines. I was just trying to say the 32mm gauge was sort of a specialty gauge, not a narrow gauge, as far as usage goes.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Thanks Rich,
i guess that I have been running all my Gauge 1 trains on the wrong track all these year.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

According to the standard references, 32mm is gauge-0 and 45mm is gauge-1, despite David running his trains on the wrong track. It has been that way for over 100 years.
http://www.g1mra.com/history-gauge-1-today/


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

David,

I apologize. I did not mean to imply you were running your trains on the wrong track. As far as I know, there is no "wrong track" in the 45mm community  .

That is what is common with the steamers I run with, that is all. All scales are run on 45mm gauge track.

Enjoy your trains and do it your way.


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

The 32mm track is most commonly used for 16mm scale, which is 2 ft Narrow Gauge as common to Great Britain, and has a Huge following over there. My indoors layout is 32mm Narrow Gauge Light Railway style.

Gauge One is 45mm by definition, any scale you care to run on it. 1/32 Scale being Standard Gauge for 45mm track. 1:13.7 scale is at the opposite end, representing 2 ft Narrow Gauge on 45mm track.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

I thought it might be worth mentioning that Tenmille (http://www.tenmille.com/index.html) also makes 45/32 dual gauge track. The website mentions: We can supply for self assembly or as ready made track. I used Tenmille parts and made multi gauge track (1, 0 and S gauge):









Regards
Fred


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## Puddlejumper (Oct 5, 2015)

Waking up this thread because I want to see more photos of dual gauge track. I will be planning my pike soon, and am considering using dual gauge track. I do not yet own any 2 rail "O" gauge stuff, nor any 32mm stuff, so I might not go dual gauge, but I know some large scalers in live steam use 32mm so that is why I am considering it.

32mm = Gauge "O", derived from Gauge"0" or Zero. Commonly used for standard gauge in 1:48 scale, and for various narrow gauges such as 1:19 live steam in 2 foot gauge.

45mm = Gauge "1" or Gauge "one". Commonly used for standard gauge in 1:32 and 1:29 scales, and various narrow gauges such as 1:24, 1:22.5 in meter gauge and 1:20.3 in 3 foot gauge.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> more photos of dual gauge track


How about triple gauge? 












You are correct that there are plenty of options in 1:19 scale 32mm gauge. As many Euro railways were 600 mm or 2' gauge, including the WWI trench railways, there are plenty of modellers over the pond using that combination scale/gauge. (There's even the Lost River Logging RR, which used WWI equipment in the forests of West Virginia at 2' gauge!)

This is a 2' gauge stub turnout in dual gauge (32/45mm).












As many cute little locos are available in live steam 32mm gauge, many of our live steam tracks include a 32mm option. It may be dual gauge or single 32mm - like this at Jim's. The track on the left is 32mm.











This is the Aikenback portable track at Howard County fair, with my Regner "Otto" on the dial gauge. While it is currently set to 45mm gauge, it is re-gaugeable to 32mm. You'll find most European small steamers are models of outside frame locomotives so the wheels can be adjusted to suit either gauge.











Here's a typical UK steam engine - outside frames and 1:19th scale. It can be 32mm or 45mm, but is actually more accurate at 45mm as the prototype W&L railway was 2' 6" gauge.


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## Puddlejumper (Oct 5, 2015)

Great photos. thanks! I really enjoy seeing complex multiple gauge trackwork like those turnouts.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Herein lies another perfect example of folks not understanding the difference between SCALE and GAUGE. They ARE NOT indelibly joined at the hip. Scale is the ratio of model to prototype. What we affectionately refer to as "0" scale is sort of a misnomer in that true "0" scale is 7mm (17/64") to the foot (slightly larger than the 1/4" most model in). Our most popular HO (half "0") is 3.5mm. This is the size we are going to choose to model in. Large scale has a plethora of scales: 1:32, 1:29, 1:24, 1:22.5, 1:20.3, 1:13.7 being the most common. There are other less common scales that migrate into large scale from other genres of modeling.

Gauge is the distance between the rail heads. Simple. This distance can be anything the modeler wishes it to be, if he chooses to be his own 'railway engineer'. I suppose if one wished he could run HO scale equipment on 45mm track.. Would make one helluva broad gauge....something on the order of 154" gauge. Not very practical, but in HO scale that is what 45mm track SCALES to.

I must confess that I am totally amazed that this topic still rears it's ugly head when there are multiple threads on this forum and others explaining this topic. In times past I might have asked the forum operator to include a sticky thread on this subject locked at the top of the listings to make it easy to find.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Herein lies another perfect example of folks not understanding the difference between SCALE and GAUGE.


While I can't speak for the old part of this thread, the recent revival from Puddlejumper is quite clear and doesn't seem at all confused. I hope my post was equally clear in differentiating between scale and gauge?


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Pete, my post was intended as a broadcast, not to anyone in particular. I suppose one of these days I am going to have to put together a comprehensive treatsie on scale/gauge and add it to my web site.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

armorsmith said:


> Herein lies another perfect example of folks not understanding the difference between SCALE and GAUGE. They ARE NOT indelibly joined at the hip. Scale is the ratio of model to prototype. What we affectionately refer to as "0" scale is sort of a misnomer in that true "0" scale is 7mm (17/64") to the foot (slightly larger than the 1/4" most model in). Our most popular HO (half "0") is 3.5mm. This is the size we are going to choose to model in. Large scale has a plethora of scales: 1:32, 1:29, 1:24, 1:22.5, 1:20.3, 1:13.7 being the most common. There are other less common scales that migrate into large scale from other genres of modeling.
> 
> Gauge is the distance between the rail heads. Simple. This distance can be anything the modeler wishes it to be, if he chooses to be his own 'railway engineer'. I suppose if one wished he could run HO scale equipment on 45mm track.. Would make one helluva broad gauge....something on the order of 154" gauge. Not very practical, but in HO scale that is what 45mm track SCALES to.
> 
> I must confess that I am totally amazed that this topic still rears it's ugly head when there are multiple threads on this forum and others explaining this topic. In times past I might have asked the forum operator to include a sticky thread on this subject locked at the top of the listings to make it easy to find.


I do not think this is a very interesting topic for this forum, but I was amazed that your post, which was meant to explain things I assume, confuse again scale and gauge. There is not such a thing as true "0" scale and there is no H0 scale. The numbers and letters which are used to define the different gauges are just that (but for the misnomer G). So there might be a "true" scale associated with 0 gauge when modelling standard gauge (1435 mm) gauge trains (but that is not 7mm to the foot (1:43.5) but 1:45).
Regards
Fred


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

For practical purposes and attempting to avoid the scale/gauge controversy 45 and 32 mm are the most common I have seen in almost 20 years of smaller than ride-on live steam railroading. The OP and the re-awakener both wanted to know the purpose of those two gauges, a question I have been asked a multitude of times while exhibiting at train shows where HO/N/Lionel/American Flyer are the most common. I used to attempt to educate but, as exhibited here, there are so many variations that I just say that it's to run many different sizes of trains and most are satisfied with that answer. 
Yes, there are some who have laid track in gauges (dare I say oddball? Sorry Pete, David O from CO and others) that are less common. But for my money and to foster the social aspect of getting together to run trains with those of like mind, lay your track in 45 and 32mm. You'll have the most enjoyment and be able to accommodate the largest number of visitors if that is your goal. My vision for my participation in this hobby has always been to....
Have fun,
Tom


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## Puddlejumper (Oct 5, 2015)

Tom Bowdler said:


> The OP and the re-awakener both wanted to know the purpose of those two gauges,
> Tom


No, I am aware of the scale/gauge issue and am very comfortable with it. My post was a request for more photos of dual gauge track. I made a mistake in mentioning 32mm = gauge zero and 45mm = gauge one, which I did because a previous poster insisted that 32mm was gauge one, which is not accurate. Didn't mean to start a war. 

I fix the whole scale/gauge issue by just telling people I model 45mm gauge trains. 

Now... pictures of dual gauge track?

Dave


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Broad ga., Std Ga and narrow all one scale!


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## Neiler (Feb 17, 2008)

BrianTFowler said:


> I tend to think of large scale dual gauge as F & Fn3. SVRR offers a 32/45mm dual gauge, does anyone know of some examples of people running with this type of track? is it just to run G and O scales in the same space?


Brian: 

I hope that you got the answer you were looking for. In short, yes, “people run with this type of track”. 

There are other reasons but “Garden” Railroad scales are all over the map and using 32 mm isn’t uncommon for larger scales than O. I have a Forney 1:20.3 (F scale) kit from Northeast Narrow Gauge that is designed to run on 32mm gauge to represent the two-footers (Fn2). 

I’m sure there are other reasons to have dual gauge but, yes, it is used. 

Neil
Hawaii


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## BrianTFowler (Sep 20, 2012)

I want to model in 1/32 scale (gauge 1), standard and narrow gauge. I can borrow from some O Gauge on the cheap, but will end up having to scratch build stuff if I want it correct.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

BrianTFowler said:


> I want to model in 1/32 scale (gauge 1), standard and narrow gauge. I can borrow from some O Gauge on the cheap, but will end up having to scratch build stuff if I want it correct.


Interesting choice. O gauge, 32mm or 1.25", in 1/32nd scale is 40", which isn't too far from 36" - a common narrow gauge. I guess you'd call it "1n3". You can certainly borrow a lot of O scale stuff, like trucks, etc.


You might want to take a look at 1/29th instead of 1/32nd - lots of trains and details in that scale, and the O gauge represents 36.57" narrow gauge. You might find this thread interesting:
http://forums.mylargescale.com/29-b...narrow-gauge-track-sizes-recommendations.html 
[As an aside, NMRA proposed calling 1/29th "A" scale for American, as no one else seemed interested, so that would be modelling in "An3".]


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Pete Thornton said:


> ...You might want to take a look at 1/29th instead of 1/32nd - lots of trains and details in that scale, and the O gauge represents 36.57" narrow gauge


The Bachmann "Twenty-foot" cars scale out well for narrow gauge cars in 1:29. Just swap out the 45mm trucks for 32mm trucks. 




Pete Thornton said:


> As an aside, NMRA proposed calling 1/29th "A" scale for American, as no one else seemed interested, so that would be modelling in "An3".


Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, and the chaos which would have come from each individual scale represented under "large scale" having its own unique designation and set of standards was avoided. 

Later,

K


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