# Gluing BBs for weight



## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm getting ready for winter projects and finally stopped at one of those "manly" outdoor stores and picked up a couple pounds of BBs. My A/C box cars need more weight - steel wheels aren't enough.

So the question is: what glue is best for them? Good ol' Elmers, or something much more expensive? My guess is that Elmers will do for cars where they won't get wet.

JackM


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

how about plaster? get, or make, a form of the correct size, fill with bb's, mix the plaster wet, pour it in, and you end up with a brick made of plaster and metal.

Scot


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Jack- What you need is some good old fashion "Boxcar BB Glue!"


-Kevin.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Jack,
A member of another forum I read cast some crates in resin. I might consider making a mold of a crate, fill the mold with the BBs, then follow with the casting resin. They can do double duty, weight and scenery.
Bob C.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Be careful if you use a white glue "type", it can absorb moisture and expand.

I'd do it in epoxy or other resin.

Greg


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Jack:

You may want to review the  > Extra Weight for my Locomotive <  thread from that other site.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

If you have places to put them wrap them in foil and glue the foil in. 

I got 20 pounds of bird shot at my manly store, takes less space, 'cause the gaps are smaller.....

John


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I mix it bird shot with Bondo. 










Later,

K


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

I do not know how much weight you need to add but if you go to a sporting goods store look for the fishing dept and get the largest lead sinkers they have 1 or 2 oz smash them flat with a hammer and use them to add weight. Cheap and easy. Glue them with p6000 glue it can be found at hobby stores.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I use tire balancing weights, they come in various increments and have a peel and stick adhesive on them already. If the adhesive can hold on a vehicle wheel subject to all weather conditions, should do just as good on trains, even if left out doors.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Some good ideas here. Since my box cars doors don't always stay closed, I guess I need to make something that looks like a normal box car load. Either box up the BBs or get some used wheel weights. Lightweight double-sided tape is likely to loosen in the summer sun. Nothing like having the load shift and pull the entire train off the track (Jack knows because Jack's done it).

Thanks, HH, for the link elsewhere. It's a good discussion of all this (that, like most forumses devolves into a totally different topic - including photos of a really nice old Corvette, although not a split-window so I wasn't too interested.). 

As always, there is no single right answer. For the box cars I think I'll try to get a bunch of wheel weights, skoosh 'em together as much as possible, then paint them black and get some industrial-strength double-stick tape. It's dark in there anyway. The BBs I'll save for the bottom of the overlight hopper cars. Maybe a little gravel on top to make it look real-er. And skoosh (in a different way) whatever glue I have handy and see what happens. If it falls out, I'll use some other glue to glue the glue in.

JackM


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack,

Rather than gluing BBs into a brick, I would get some small plastic or glass bottles with screw caps, pill or baby food bottles come to mind. With a screw cap it would be easy to adjust the weight and the BBs won't spill out. Silicone caulking could be used to hold the bottles in place. I think that I would center a bottle over each truck. Silicone caulk has the advantage that it holds quite well, but can be peeled off at a later date.

Chuck


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Yeah, actually I like the idea of caulk. The peelability might be handy if I need to change it someday.

For loose BBs in a hopper, I started thinking of that aerosol foam you use to fill gaps in masonry. But that stuff gets out of control fast. Might be fun to fill up an entire box car with it. I wonder how much weight it would add.

JackM

(If anyone decides to try it, don't forget the camera. Pretty sure "hilarity will ensue".)


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Plastic is ok with me, but not glass as it is too easy to break glass esp. if dropped.
Now you have bb's and glass shards mixed!!


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Jack- They also make a minimal expanding foam (made by DAP), but I don't think you want to put that stuff in a hopper (or boxcar- very messy!).


-Kevin.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan

I agree that plastic would be better, but if the glass jar is well secured I don't foresee breakage a significant problem. It it isn't well secured I strongly agree.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Lets just back up a minute here guys!!

Jack...how much weight do you foresee adding to a boxcar?
Do you have a guideline across the board for car weights?!!

....my sat morn curiosity got to me!!!

Whad do ya think!??

Dirk


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

I used epoxy, and it worked, but what I found is that BBs (or the divers weights that I used) have too much empty space, and the result isn't really all that heavy. I borrowed a Hot Pot, made a wooden form, melted the lead, and poured it in. Much more satisfactory. But expensive if you're only doing one.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack

Let's go back to the beginning. By A/C do you mean AristoCraft or Accucraft cars? I have both and I don't have any problems. 

Why do you think you need to add weight? Once I replaced plastic wheels with metal ones any problems I had went away. 

Are you having derailing problems; on curves, straights, transitions between curves and straights, or on switches?

What radius (diameter) curves are you using?

Are your couplers truck mounted or body mounted?

One last suggestion would be to put some of your BBs in a small zip lock plastic bag and see it adding weight solves your problem.

Chuck


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck has a very good point about using metal wheels first. I also like the self adhesive tire weight strips.

When I added birdshot to my locos I used J&B quik-weld epoxy. The 30 minute step up type, the 5 minute kind doesn't work the same. The longer setting kind when poured over the shot will seep down the gaps and create a monolithic mass. It's important to make sure where you put the weight won't have to be removed later or is a removable mass.

For enclosed cars I like the idea of using prescription bottles caulked down. Gondola and hoppers can usethe the same, just make a top cover.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic

Jack said in the OP that even with metal wheels, he was still having problems. That is why I'm confused.

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Jack,
The likely problems are derailing and wobble. Weight may or may not solve the problems.
If you are having derailments on switches the back to back of your wheels might need adjusting. With the 'toy' nature of our models there are few standards, including flanges, so back2back is important because wheels can be affected by guard rails. A thick flange or tight gauging can lift a wheel that otherwise tracks fine.
If you have wobble; that can be fixed by how tight the trucks are attached. You want one truck so tight that it can only rotate freely, the other truck should be slightly looser so that it can rock too. The tight truck spreads the lift to the outside over the wheels, the loose one centers lift to the screw. This creates the stable 3 point suspension.
Clothes lining is the only thing that calls for more weight that I can think of.

The more info you give when posting will get better answers. My small scale knowledge fooled me into thinking I knew this large scale beast..... a lot to learn, but that's ok. There are a lot of folks willing to help.
John


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## d_sinsley (Mar 29, 2011)

What about filling with shot and pouring in polyester (fiberglass) resin? Gets warm but I don't think unbearably so. This I what I am considering for loco boiler. Though Kevin's bondo trick would be maybe a bit more user friendly as it is not as viscous and doesn't get as hot. 

For an HO gondola I did I used a drill and drilled out lead to get all sorts of shavings. Made a great load of scrap metal once weathered up and rusty looking. That makes me think a person could fashion a mold and pour some lead cubes and skin in styrene for nice heavy crates. 

If it isn't going to be seen and I assume it isn't then the bondo and bb or shot idea I think is the best.


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## Bill4373 (Jan 3, 2008)

I have used "used tire balancing weights", you can buy them cheap from a tire dealer. In a closed car, where they can't be seen, put them in a plastic box that I glue to the floor and then used Elmers to hold the weights in the box. Worked for me.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

My apologies for not supplying the information asked about; I guess I forgot to check this thread lately.

The main problem is a trio of AristoCraft boxcars. I swapped the original wheels for metal ones ("cheap" Backman ones, I believe). To me, they still feel practicaly weightless. Kadee couplers, body mounted. Back-to-back has been checked against a guage whose brand name I don't know offhand. Turnouts are either Sunset Valley #6 or AristoCraft wide radius (admittedly terrible, terrible units which I'd never buy again but that's water under the bridge). I spent many, many hours this summer tweaking track installation with a digital guage.

All that being said, heavier cars by either USAT or AristoCraft never have problems but those three boxcars and a couple covered gons are always the problem, especially when being pushed. They feel intuitively light.

I plan to do further investigation on these cars this winter in the convenience of my workbench, flange depth and all that, but I do think these particular cars would benefit from a little more weight. Possible faults of the cars/trucks themselves, isn't my question. Just curious what other "BB adhesives" might be useful.

Thanks for all the useable info about personal experiences. It seems to look like basic Elmer's is about as good as anything else. Cheap & handy, that's what I like.

JackM

Isn't A/C used to abbreviate AristoCraft?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you tried swapping out trucks from a car that stays on the track with the trucks that derail to see which car derails? It might be the trucks. I've heard that some Bachmann axles have problems. I haven't had problems with my Bachmann wheels.

Thanks for the answers. 

I asked about A/C because I wasn't familiar with that abbreviation.

Chuck


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Swapping trucks sounds like a good idea. I might try it next summer if adding a judicious amount of weight doesn't give me the desired result.

I only use the abbreviation because I've seen it around here. Not owning anything by Accucraft, it never ocurred to me that it could mean anything but Aristocraft. Next thing you know will be everybody doesn't know you can save fifteen minutes on car insurance.

JackM


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Abbreviations should not be ambiguous. For you it wasn't, for me it was. That is life in the modern world.

What does the following mean to you, I have seen it often here on MLS?

"LOL"

lots of love

lots of laughs

little old ladies.

Something else???

I have seen this where each could apply.

I would prefer posters not use abbreviations. It take me longer to interpret the abbreviation than it would take the author to type it out.

Maybe I'm an old phyart and the only one concerned about symbology in modern communication. If so, I'll sit back and be confused.

Chuck

Lastly, adding weight can add to stress on engines and journals in trucks. Occasionally, I have had a car that always derails at about the same place on the layout. Picking up the car and turning it around solved the problem. This works for me more often than I care to admit. I have yet to figure out why it works.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

"LOL"..

I only know one meaning...simple minded I guess!! ha!!

"Laugh Out Loud"

I have always seen a/c as meaning = air conditioning...but I worked on equipment that used it!!

Here and now...I'm on a model train site with a former company "Aristo Craft"...
....it is much easier to type in A/C in place of a long word or phrase..

We each have our little place here...but like folks ... not all are the same....better to ask for clarification at times!! And easy to do....

D


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

But the only exercise we get is jumping to conclusions! laughing out loud ha ha ha ha ha
Shirley we jest


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

No, no, no. LOL means "lots o' luck". I learned that in high school. Therefore, it must be right. It obviously predates doing anything "out loud". 

I'm sure my opinion will stand. Yeah, right, sure, LOL. 

JackM

So are we okay (OK) with USAT?

And don't call me Shirley.


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## d_sinsley (Mar 29, 2011)

SD90WLMT said:


> "LOL"..
> 
> I only know one meaning...simple minded I guess!! ha!!
> 
> ...


It took me awhile to figure out A/C cars were not nice comfortable temperature controlled cars. lol aka (also known as) laugh out loud

Yes spelling it out would be a bit easier for those of us that are generationally separated. I am somewhere in the middle between old enough to have ridden on a steam locomotive and too young to know what a steam locomotive is.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack

I'm OK with USAT or USAt. After all it is USA Trains, it is only the "T" that is abbreviated.

Chuck


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