# What scale are Bachmann Big Haulers



## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All,
 
I think I am finally getting the concept of scale vs guage into my head so now I am looking at "standardizing" my line to certain guage.  With that in mind what scale does the Bachmann Big Hauler line run in?  I know their new Spectrum series is 1:20.3.   Thanks again
 
Rich


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

1:22.5. Same as much of LGB's US offerings of the time.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Good rule of thumb, the Bmanns Big Maulers were originally 1/22.5, but the two window wooden cab version work best with 1/20.5. The wooden cab version looks much more like a small 1/20 engine where the 3 window steel cab looks more like a bigger engine, and as such, much better with the smaller 1/22.5 to 1/24 scale items, I've even noted that in a pinch the 3 window version works well pulling 1/29 scale cars as the 3 window version is almost a dead ringer for several standard gauge ten-wheeler photograghs I have seen. 

In a pinch if even the 2 window version doesnt work for you, Banta Modelworks sold a laser cut wood recabbing kit for the Bug Hauler that re-cabs it to scale 1/20.3.


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## aerialbear (Mar 9, 2015)

I'm really curious about this. I recently (early 2015) bought 'The Plainsman' starter set which has a 4-6-0 loco with tender, a stock car, and a bobber caboose. I then added a Bachmann passenger car from the Big Hauler line.

Wanting to put some passengers in the passenger car, I picked up a seated man in a bowler. This figure is made by Bachmann as part of the BH line, so I assumed it'd fit in the car. To my complete surprise, it didn't; the guy looked like an adult trying to sit in a kindergartner's chair. After some digging around, I found that 1:24th scale figures fit and look best.

Now the seated figure I originally tried seems to be very close to the fireman and engineer that came with the Plainsman so I've started to wonder if the loco and tender are actually in a slightly larger scale than the rest of the rolling stock. I'm not sure which locos vsmith (above) is referring to, but they seem to fit what I'm finding with the Plainsman.

I suppose it's possible that Bachmann had some 1:24 molds that were workable as Big Haulers and just ran with it. Any and all insights welcome and thanks.


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

The fact is, the Bachmann Big Hauler line was designed as a toy train to compete with LGB. LGB is famous for what is politely termed "Gummi Scale," with trains ranging from 1:22.5 to something near 1:29!

Although the Big Hauler line is nominally 1:22.5, many liberties were taken. Numerous reasons for this, including the size of the production equipment, amount of material required in the molds, and shipping costs.

When the 1:20.3 line came out, some folks actually complained that it was too large in spite of the fact that it was a successful attempt on Bachmann's part to provide accurate scale models rather than toys.

Also remember that putting an inflexible clothed figure in a seat is pretty difficult. Prototype folks clothing is flexible as is the person, so it is not surprising that even well scaled figures require some grinding off at the contact points.

Before any jumps n me, I love all trains, from tiny to huge, and from pocket toys like key chain fobs to prototypes!

Happy RRing,

Jerry


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## aerialbear (Mar 9, 2015)

Hi Jerry, 

Thanks for the information! I should say that I'm very happy with the Plainsman, and just want to know as much about it as possible. When you mention the 1:20.3 is that the Spectrum line? Is there a chance that the BH I have is actually (more or less) at that scale? It's definitely more of a toy than an accurate prototype-based model, but it's still a lot of fun.

Is there much late 18th century rolling stock at these larger scales? I'd like to have some and have begun to think that I might have to build it myself. Thanks again.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you must mean late 1800's rather than 18th century. Yes, Accucraft and Bachmann both make 1/20th scale narrow gage rolling stock. Although much of it is actually early 20th century it will work for late 1800's. There are others, mostly kit builders.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

vsmith said:


> ..................
> In a pinch if even the 2 window version doesnt work for you, Banta Modelworks sold a laser cut wood recabbing kit for the Bug Hauler that re-cabs it to scale 1/20.3.


Are you sure about that Vic.
I inquired with Banta Modelworks some time back whether the Banta wood cab for the 4-6-0 was scaled for 1:20.3 and was told by them it was scaled for 1:22.5. 



















Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I once measured several aspects of both a Bachmann J&S coach and an Accucraft J&S coach. Assuming Accucraft were close to correct in scale (I don't have a real one in my back yard) There were small differences each way but the Bachmann scaled to 1:24 except it was shortened by about 6 prototype feet.

The first gen 2-4-2 Lyn was sold as 'Spectrum' but it scales to a shortened 1:24 with a cab more the size of 1:20.3

Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Garratt said:


> Are you sure about that Vic.
> I inquired with Banta Modelworks some time back whether the Banta wood cab for the 4-6-0 was scaled for 1:20.3 and was told by them it was scaled for 1:22.5.
> 
> 
> Andrew


well...in 2009 when I posted that...they did market a 1/20 kit. Hmmm guess that's gone the way of the dodo as well


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Bmann shortened the J&S coach, so although it is 1:22.5 it is squashed. Tough to get any figure in it. But remember that NG coaches were small and real people had to squash in!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The notion of "scale" when it comes to narrow gauge equipment is a bit grey. There's a lot of variation in the size of narrow gauge equipment, so a particular model of a box car might scale to 1:22.5 as a model of one railroad's car, but 1:24 as a model of another (and sometimes 1:20.3 as a model of yet another railroad's car). 

A a general rule, early narrow gauge equipment (built c. 1870s to 1890s) was fairly small. Freight car lengths were in the neighborhood of 25 - 27', with widths closer to 7'. By the 1890s, two things had happened. First, locomotive technology evolved such that the locos were larger and could pull longer, heavier trains. Also, it had been proven that larger (wider/longer) equipment could be stable on narrow gauge track, so the equipment went through something of a "growth spurt." Lengths of equipment began to push 30', and the widths expanded to closer to 8'. Not all railroads' equipment underwent such growth, but that was the overarching trend among all railroads. Chances are that if a railroad lasted until the 30s, then the c. 1870s equipment would have long-since been replaced. 

It can be argued that it was actually the passenger car that set this growth in motion. Early cars were fairly long (35' or so minus the end platforms), but at only 7' wide or so, the seating arrangements were such that you could only fit three passengers on any given row; two in one seat on one side of the aisle, and one in a single seat on the opposite side. (This arrangement was reversed midway through the car so it could remain balanced.) If you added an additional 12" to the width, you could fit 2-abreast seating on both sides of the aisle, increasing your seating capacity. Those cars proved stable, so the freight equipment followed suit. 

One thing to keep in mind when placing figures in our model passenger cars is that a typical narrow gauge passenger car seat is pretty much on par with a modern airline seat in terms of room. When you add to that the fact that most models are compressed lengthwise, there's even less legroom for our passengers, so even fitting one--let alone 2--passengers on each seat can be challenging. (Many modelers cut the legs off their passengers just below the knees.) 

Later,

K


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

vsmith said:


> well...in 2009 when I posted that...they did market a 1/20 kit. Hmmm guess that's gone the way of the dodo as well


Vic, if you look at the side wall of the Banta cab for the 4-6-0 it looks taller even though the roof looks a similar height at the peak so maybe it is open to interpretation. It has two side windows so as you said it can look 1:20.3 but probably more so than the stock 2 window cab. 

Banta Modelworks have only just recently added a wood cab for the 1:20.3 forney like they already have in 0 scale. The one with the nice curly roof.. 

Andrew


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The issue with the cab on the Bachmann 10-wheeler isn't so much the height, but the width. The stock cab actually scales well to cabs on 3' locos, but all were smaller; moguls and such. In 1:20.3, the Bachmann cab doesn't have much more than 12" (if that) between the boiler and the side of the cab. Loco cabs are tight, but there's got to be enough room for the crew to get past the boiler and out on the running boards. 

Later,

K


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## aerialbear (Mar 9, 2015)

Thanks all! Yes, placitassteam, I did mean late 1800s. 

I measured the seated guy that was giving me trouble and found that he'd be about 4 1/4" tall if he were standing up. He's just about 3" tall as a seated figure. So even at 1:20.3 scale he's 7 feet tall - a big man!

So I think he's just "off" from the rest of the BH stuff.

I'd still like to get some sense of scale around my Plainsman but am stumped since, as a toy, it has no prototype. The fireman stands 3" so he's a believable 1:22.5 scale. For the loco itself though, I'm just not sure. Any suggestions anyone has to offer would be much appreciated. Thanks again!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

I think the Bachmann 4-6-0 is a close copy of the ET&WNC No.12 in scale 1:22.5
All the other road names are just variations on the same model.
Forget about the included figures. AristoCraft had amputee locomotive drivers. 










Andrew


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I think the Bachmann 4-6-0 is a close copy of the ET&WNC No.12 in scale 1:22.5


It's a pretty good 1:22.5 scale model of the Tweetsie #12. And a 7' tall engineer won't work in any loco cab!


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## aerialbear (Mar 9, 2015)

Thanks guys - I'll start working off these prototypes. Garratt - thanks for the picture. This is startlingly close to my loco! I'll check out the Tweetsie as well.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm tempted to reply Matchbox scale.

Referring to the Matchbox cars.

Robert


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

rdamurphy said:


> I'm tempted to reply Matchbox scale.
> 
> Referring to the Matchbox cars.
> 
> Robert


nope, sorry..not even close! 
Matchbox cars are 1/64 scale, which is S-scale.

If you put a matchbox car next to a Bachmann Big Hauler, the matchbox car would be less than half the size it would need to be to match the locomotive.

A matchbox car is about 3 inches long..the same car to the same scale as the Big Hauler would need to be about 8 inches long..

Scot


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

That's not what I meant Scot. Matchbox cars are "scaled" to fit the standard box. A Volkswagen Beetle is the same length as a Cadillac Seville... They both fit in the "matchbox."

Robert


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Robert, LGB beat you to it.  That's how they've scaled their trains from day 1.

Later,

K


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

East Broad Top said:


> Robert, LGB beat you to it.  That's how they've scaled their trains from day 1.
> 
> Later,
> 
> K


Ha, ha.....

I wish they did use more standard size boxes.
I have a bunch of LGB items that would easily fit into a single size box but no, they have to use boxes of different legths and heights just to make stacking them difficult.

Asfar as the Bachmann Big Haulers are concerned - I'm in the process to scan the first Big Hauler catalog so I can add it to the database - the only scale mentioned in there is "G scale", no actual scale number - but G scale at that time was still considered to be 1:22.5 scale

Knut


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