# Dr. Rivet Fall Meet 2008



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Plenty of action at the Fall IE&W meet today... Thanks again to our hosts Jim and Jo Anne for providing the track, food, and a great time for the visitors.... 










Things are getting more and more organized with the addition of a track marshal at the yard throat (Mike Moore). In addition to an engineer all trains are required to have a brakeman/conductor to throw switches and guard the rear of the train. 









Jeff and Ryan completed extensive work/mods on the Accucraft GS-4. The results were jaw dropping speed. The engine exceeded 200 smph and it became a little scary when it became apparent no one could run fast enough to catch it.. LOL! 








** GS-4 MOVIE ** >>>> http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/davidrose/stapleton2008/GS-4.wmv 

Lots of action in the steaming bay... 









Justin's coal fired K-27 putting on a show. 


















Jon Klings awesome MOW train. 









K-27 letting off some steam.


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like a wonderful time, sorry we missed it


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

Wow! Looks like a good time! 

What's the car behind Jon Kling's Derrick?!


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Is that Peter Jobusch I see with grandson in arms? 

Gordon.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Taperpin on 09/14/2008 1:38 AM
Is that Peter Jobusch I see with grandson in arms? 
Gordon.




That was indeed Peter J. No sign of his 4-6-0 though ;-) 

I had a most pleasant day seeing all the old crowd again. Here's Justin and Jason with the coal-fired K-27 in the steaming bay(s): 











My EBT consist is still waiting for more hoppers and a Mikado, but the small 2-8-0 (ex-RGS C-16) does a great job. 










It is nominally radio controlled, but Oops - when I turned on the transmitter, which worked fine for a test on Tuesday, the power meter showed a bit low. Although I was halfway down the yard lead going to pick up my train, I decided to swap batteries as I had several in my box. No good; the old batteries were corroded and covered in gunk! Yuk. So I dropped the transmitter and (luckily, arranged with a retaiing spring for just these occasions,) flicked the throttle servo bar out of the throttle lever so I could run manually. 



Then I had a nerve-racking experience acting as brakeman for Bill Crane and his Aster Berkshire. Here's our reefer train being overtaken by Dan Stroika's Northern on a hotshot 'varnish': 










I was nervous as I haven't had any experience running one of those complicated Aster beasts, and Bill is due for a back operation so he's not very mobile. They are significantly different from my Accucraft locos, so I over-filled the boiler for Bill, and a few other faux-pas. Dan, Charles, Ryan and Mike all helped out with advice so I did get the hang of it by the time we finished. 

Mike Moore had done a great job of adding r/c to Bill's loco using a Spectrum DX6 with lots of channels - cylinder cocks, blower, and whistle were all controllable. Bill was having a ball with the whistle which sounded great from across the layout!


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## jmkling (Jan 2, 2008)

The car behind the Ditcher was a three foot scale drop bottom gondola with the doors open...


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## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

Justin, 
I see you got the good coal again!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Gordon 

The young lad in Peter's arms is (I believe) Tom and Fran Reinhardt's son Stephan. His grandaughter was not in attendance. 

Many thanks to Tom Rowe, Peter Jobusch, and Mike Oates for coming earlier in the week to help with preparations. Mike Moore has become the de facto track marshal at the meets, keeping things running smoothly. A very special thanks to him for his efforts. In spite of dire forecasts for rain this weekend, we only had one shower on Saturday, and that lasted about 30 minutes. Unfortunately the humidity matched the temperature most of the time, so the heat was oppressive when there was no breeze. 

For me the highlight was having family members fly in from Walla Walla, WA to see a steam up first hand. When I told them that Staver's were having a meet in Portland, OR too, the response was "Gee, we could have saved the plane tickets!" Ryan B. tutored my cousin's husband in the fine art of preparing and running our Accucraft GS-4 with 10 Accu Daylight cars in tow. I don't think we gained an instant convert, but Gary now appreciates why the rest of us think this is great fun. Maybe Charles captured this "historic family event" and can post a pic. 

We were also honored to have "Britstrains" in attendance on Sunday. 

One item of note: In the future, we will be having segregated steamups; NO... not men at one and women at another. One meet will be for standard gauge operations, another for narrow gauge, geared engines, and gauge 0. This will permit much more efficient use of the track and sharing of rolling stock. So yes, this does mean TWO meets in the Spring and TWO in the Fall. If you want to run both types of motive power, you will be forced to come twice. "What a revoltin' development." 

Thanks again to all who were in attendance. I appreciate those who share a photo or two in the forum. As host I often miss some of the best runs on the track. 

Regards 

Jim


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr. Rivet and Jo Anne 
Thanks again for hosting the annual steam up at your excellent facilities. 

One of the aspects of going to the I&EW steamup is Jim's story time, again we were not without words of widsom and insights that will linger long after the steam has cleared: 









Jim, here is a reflective moment of sharing the hobby with family: 









Speaking of the "family", all of us were glad to have Joe and Brit as part of our steam family gathering: 










While on the topic of the speed of "light", the king of steam and the power plant that was quite a change from the base light Accucraft production to "rapid rover!": 










The other aspect of the steam up are the "mini" gatherings that enhance the steam experience: 

Bill Crane's Berk set to run 









Alan keeping the younger steamers on track 









Carl Weaver getting his train onto the main 









The plus side of the non-segregated steam up is the variety of topics, and engines that one is exposed to at the steam up: 










Anyone able to catch the unique setup on this engine? 


















Dave's impressive train 









Dan "running" the S2: 









Jon display of craftsmanship with his freight 









Coal power via Justin and Ryan 


















The arrival from Oz: CF-GW (slight tweak and the second run had power and speed along with the many goodies thanks to Gordon Watson): 









Jay- is that a 4-4-0 running with the stack and rods in place? 









More later....and video clips too.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 09/15/2008 3:37 AM

Snip... 

Thanks again to all who were in attendance. I appreciate those who share a photo or two in the forum. As host I often miss some of the best runs on the track. 
Regards 
Jim




Jim, it is all of us who thank you! 

Charles thanks for the great shot of my 99211 (Wangerooger).


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

A few more photos..... 

The latest of many innovative products from Justin & Jeff: The KS-4 Boy Duck-billed Platypus! 









(Dave O. pretty much sums it up in the back ground) 

Jason tries to hi-jack the GS-4 when Alan & Jeff briefly left the engine unattended... 









Another view of Jons MOW train. 










Tom waits out the brief down pour under an umbrella around 4:30 on Saturday. The rain quickly stopped and the steaming quickly resumed.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Speaking of a Duck-billed Platypus; here is a "black beast": a two headed huggy bear Dave that is remote controlled: 









No wonder the engine was not able to be in the same photo frame... 









Seriously, if anyone wants to "tune" the suspension and RC their NG unit chat with Dave, outstanding job


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

I was finally successful in uploading video number one from this past weekend. It can be found at the YouTube group for Small Scale Live Steam. http://www.youtube.com/group/smallscalesteam 

I have another one uploading as I type (part two) but since it took four tries with the YouTube connection timing out - it may take awhile before it is ready. 

Enjoy! And again thanks to Jim and JoAnne. 

Scott 

P.S. I ran the video camera to be able to time a single lap for the Zephyr - using the video to mark where it first enters the frame at the beginning and end of one lap - 47.2 seconds for one circuit!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The arrival of the CF-GW was greatly anticipated having been away for a good length of time (an extra two weeks in the final shipping process). I will detail the upgrades in another thread but the work basically corrected factors of performance and running gear weaknesses. We had the opportunity to give the engine two running sessions. The first was problematic due to an "O" ring problem that was quickly resolved. The second run was for 45 minutes pulling a 10 car daylight set from Accucraft. 
One point to look for is an indicator that the engine is running with cut off and denotation of the radius arm positions. 
I am sure of all who view the video, Gordon should be most pleased by his craftsmanship(in particular the ability to pull through the "S" curve .9% grade):


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The true potential of an Accucraft GS4 is demonstrated at this meet. The GS4 v.5 is now on record as being a match for any 4-8-4 by any manufacturer. With torque, speed and pulling power it is a total package. The latest upgrades have enlarge ports steam passages along with re-timing. Thanks to Jeff, Ryan and Alan for making this possible. 
So, coming at ya....strap on the belts and enjoy the ride:


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Charles where is the 4-4-0 video??? The video does no justice to how fast it was going. Seems in person it is just more dramatic.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

ALL 

In the photo of Justin's coal fired K-27, Peter J is NOT holding Steffan, it is Fran and Tom's daughter, Christine. Sometimes "younger people" look alike to us OLD GUYS (at least for me). 

Dr Rivet


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's a video link showing that the GS-4 v.5 is a great machine at low speeds also --- starting on Dr. Rivet's 0.6% grade with 10 Accucraft Daylight cars. 

Thanks to Ryan and Jeff for all the work, and to many others for parts and inspiration including Gordon for combination levers, Justin for porting inspiration with his K-27, Jason for teflon piston rings, Carl for machine shop access for Jeff, and to Charles for allowing all this craziness to be centered at Triple R Services! 




Also, thank you to hosts Dr. Rivet and JoAnne for hosting the meet and allowing many of us to play! 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Might just be the sound quality of youtube, but the GS-4 sounds a bit out of time, but it still looked smooth at start up! Great videos guys keep em coming!


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff, 

I noticed the uneven sound too, but I am sure the engine is in time. Ryan had the bypass all the way closed until the boiler over filled and brought the engine to a gradual halt at the beginning of the grade. He opened the bypass valve and the engine started making steam and began clearing itself. 

It did the same thing to me the on Saturday when I left the bypass on too long and it started looking like Old Faithful out the stack. The engine sounded like it had a limp until it cleared and began to hit all four beats evenly. Then it really took off!!!! 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff and Alan, 

The GS-4 is far from out of time ( I should know, I spent 2+ hours timing it to get it perfect!), rather as the speed builds, the backpressure in the ported cylinder passages builds due to having kept the oem valve crossover for the exhaust. That is next on the checklist to correct, albeit at a loss of stacktalk. 

Think of it as having a muscle car with lots of power mods and rip-snorting ready to go, and ending up running a 1" exhaust instead of a 3 or 5". Essentially it is restricting the engine at higher speeds by not allowing the steam to escape the cylinders, as is evidenced by the engine speeding up a bit when closing the throttle. That reduces the amount of steam being forced in, allowing the cylinders to use the force of the steam already in the cylinders to it's full extent. Of course this is only for a split second, as the velocity of the remaining steam flowing through the throttle. The backpressure makes the exhaust have a peculiar beat and sound like it is out of square, when in reality, once the steam has a chance to escape out, the exhaust quiets down to a steady 4 beats pr revolution. 

The stock valves only have a crossover opening that is 1.5mm wide x 2mm long, whereas the new ports are 3/32" oval openings, this is alot like trying t0 fit a square peg in a round hole, sure a bit of it can get through at a time, but not 100% can get in. The goal with then new valves is to get the backpressure down to 5-10% of the total volume left in the cylinders, so that the pistons have some cushion, but the steam is utilized to the best of it's ability. 

Regardless, the engine has plenty of torque and can easily start a 180lb (approximate dead weight of Accucraft Daylight coaches= 18lbs: if it is a 10 car train, you can do the math) train on the .8% ruling grade of the IE&W, on nothing more then 25psi with a fill boiler, trying to compress water in the cylinders. Amazing what changing the passage size (leaving the cylinder bore alone) and allowing the engine to use the steam efficiently can do


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan, 

You guys obviously hit on something major (with opening the ports)... I could not believe what I saw this weekend. I’m not one for speed records, but it seems that engine raised the bar. Your talking about opening the exhaust now… if that makes it run even faster, then Jeff better start training for sprint running.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

Not opening the exhaust. That is already done. The valve has a milled passage in the bottom that is the restriction point right now, so time to make new valves and then all is good, no more Galloping Gertie noise and much less steam needed to accomplish the same amount of work, aka, it can go even faster...maybe not such a good thing for Jeff.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff sprint???? 
N


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

A final video review of some action from the various steam engines brought to the meet by gauge one enthusiasts and friends of the IE&W host Jim and Jo Anne.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice job Charles, Thanks for sharing


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## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like it was a great weekend, wish I could have made it there. Hope to see all of the east coast steamers again sometime soon.


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## privero (Jan 18, 2008)

Ryan and Jeff: 

The engine you use to perform this advance features is an Accucraft? Can you do it in an Aster? How would you call it now, since a have read other GS4 as Gordon Watson. How would you call yours?


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Privero 
It's a RYFF...


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Privero, 

The engine is still a GW inspired locomotive, just with my (and Jeff's) take on it. This is now becoming the Stage 5 of my GS-4 retrofits and represents the pinnacle of tapping this chassis' potential. Yes, it is an Accucraft loco, which has been through my hands twice before, in stock form and in my shop for the initial stage 3 retrofit (combination levers, waterpump rebuild, suspension, etc) 

It is not necessary to do these modifications to an Aster loco, since that is what we are trying to recreate. The Aster already has all of the prodcts in the Stage 5 retrofit. We are giving people the best bang for their buck without having to tap into their pension fund for a GS-4. 

If you have some more questions, post them up here (preferably in a new topic, so as to not steal away the spotlight of Dr. Rivet's meet) or contact me through board PM's or email.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Really enjoyed looking at the pics and vids. Thanks for posting. Looks like all had a great time. 

Take care, Bob


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

You should put all the threads together(I think you had a few on some of the stages) and add information that is missing, and put together a how to. 
This would help out a lot of people wanting to tinker with their engine and make it perform better! 

The meet looked like it was outstanding, I sent it to the club president (local 7.5" gauge) for an example on what potential happen if we build a club g-scale track (he enjoyed it!). Hes totally for it (has been for a year now), just lack of people in scale 1 category in South Florida lol 

Ill figure it out  "If you build it they will come"


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

The past upgrade stages and effort to enhance performance along with history of baseline of the Accucraft GS4 can be found in: 
Subject: Informative Threads Index


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

We Had A Great Time.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Brit 
Did you work out the situation with the steam leak?


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## Britstrains (Feb 24, 2008)

No Not yet we are currently dismantling it and it would sseem that the part may be falty which then we would have to get a replacement. I am trying to balance trains and school which is very hard right now. But I think that we almost have it solved and should have it running for the September 28th meet at PLS.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

brit 

Please send me your email addr offline to my email addr that you have or in a private msg on this site. Glad you had a good time 

Jim


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 09/16/2008 7:34 PM
A final video review of some action from the various steam engines brought to the meet by gauge one enthusiasts and friends of the IE&W host Jim and Jo Anne. 





Thanks Charles for posting those pictures. It would be nice if Jim Stapleton had a web site showing his track layout and gave some particulars as to it's construction such as decking material, brand of track and switches, statistics as to length, #of switches, yard tracks, etc. It's a magnificent railroad. I was watching those Accucraft 4-4-0's at the end to see if their stacks would fall off.  Just kidding of course.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

John 
I could image some of the Lone Star residents need a few visuals to make it through the rough times following the storms. So, it great that you and others have power and time to watch and take one's mind off the stressful things in the real world around those impacted by the storm.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

John 

When I get organized again following our recent meet, I will try to post some photos and details. In a previous thread on one of the meets, Charles posted an overhead shot taken in the Fall of 2005 from a commercial source. It shows the extent of the layout. 

CURRENT General specs: 

Posts, stringers, and crossmembers supporting the deck are PT 4x4, 2x6, and 2x4 
Deck is Trex 5/4 x 6 either 32 or 38 inches wide, curved sections have the Trex "pie wedged" 
Height varies from 16 inches to 53 inches. 
Main circuit is 560 feet in length 
Steaming bay lead is 90 feet, bay is 30 feet 

Two yards with 12 storage tracks total, all #10 turnouts; 2 3-way and 8 standard 
Storage track length 350 feet 

Ga 1 Main is double track with seven single crossovers, two passing tracks on the outside of each main 
Minimum radius is 24 feet, maximum grade is 1 in 176, track c2c is 7 inches 
All turnouts #10 

Steaming bay has eight service tracks and three "through roads" in the center that can connect to a portable turntable 
All turnouts in the steaming bay are #8, "track" is 1/2 x 1/2 aluminum angle to reduce "melted tie" syndrome 

A circuit of Ga 0 is inside the Ga 1 and is dual gauge through the passing tracks for the inside Ga 1 main, using custom built dual gauge escapes built from SVRR #10 switch kit parts 

Total track is about 3000 feet 

ALL track is Sunset Valley RR code 250 NS. 

Regards 
Jim


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Jim for posting those details. We need to organize a caravan from Texas to come visit one of your meets sometime. Really enjoyed seeing all the pictures.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 09/15/2008 6:58 AM


Anyone able to catch the unique setup on this engine? 













Charles- A little late on the answer here... The unique setup here is it's running on O-scale / 32mm track. Most of these Sandy River engines I see are gauged for 45mm track operation. I'm under the impression that running on 32mm track is actually the correct scale for this engine. The coaches were also great.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave 
Keen observation...


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for posting the pictures and videos. I will say it again, Dr. Rivets track is where good engines go when they die. The most awesome track that I have ever seen. I can hardly imagine what it must be like in person.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

John F 

I located the post with an overhead view of the layout from 2005. Check the bottom of the thread. 

==== http://archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38887 

Regards


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Most likely the best live steam gauge 1 track in the USA.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice photo of Dr. and Mrs. Rivet's layout. Many things can be had with the right CIA reconnassiance satellite connections! Or maybe all it take is NOAA connections. I will be REALLY impressed when it shows up on a USGS contour map.


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## Garry Paine (Jan 2, 2008)

The image David posted is much better than the satellite image on MapQuest. Awesome in any case. 

Garrett


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Bruce 

LOL VERY CUTE!! There is a company in Seattle WA that flys around taking pictures of peoples property without asking. After they produce an 10x14 print and put it in a cheap frame, a local rep shows up at your door to try to sell it and 100 5x7s.  I took the large print (sans frame) and asked for a copy of the digital file from the camera. For $40, about 10 days later, I got a 6.1MB uncompressed image covering an area about four times what is left in the cropped image. Actually pretty cheap compared to renting a helicopter and pilot for an hour. I can probably find their phone number if you would like to find out id they are "shooting" in your area. This is actually the second time they have done this; the earlier photo of the side yard was not nearly as interesting. It was nice they did it on the last day of October so I got "leaf off" imagery. Otherwise I would just have pictures of the tops of the Walnut trees. 

Regards


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, 

Is the grading for the future 7 1/2" track visible on the full size photo? Bob Root took me out to the "cut" at the south end of the property. I noticed it seemed to continue on the other (north?) side of the drive way when I was leaving. Just curious about where it all is going.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David 

The thread is drifting "off course". I have sent you email "off board". 

Regards


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice photo of Dr. and Mrs. Rivet's layout

Indeed. I believe those curves are minimum 20' radius, 40' diameter - which gives you an idea of the scope. 

that flys around taking pictures of peoples property 


Jim, 

There's another one called boatpics.com who fly around the Bay taking pics of your boat. Then they send a note saying 'we got your boat, go to the website and sign up to pay us $$$'. I ordered their pics before I realised what the cost was, but sent them back (after scanning a nice one!)


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 09/24/2008 2:34 PM
Bruce 

LOL VERY CUTE!! There is a company in Seattle WA that flys around taking pictures of peoples property without asking. After they produce an 10x14 print and put it in a cheap frame, a local rep shows up at your door to try to sell it and 100 5x7s. I took the large print (sans frame) and asked for a copy of the digital file from the camera. For $40, about 10 days later, I got a 6.1MB uncompressed image covering an area about four times what is left in the cropped image. Actually pretty cheap compared to renting a helicopter and pilot for an hour. I can probably find their phone number if you would like to find out id they are "shooting" in your area. This is actually the second time they have done this; the earlier photo of the side yard was not nearly as interesting. It was nice they did it on the last day of October so I got "leaf off" imagery. Otherwise I would just have pictures of the tops of the Walnut trees. 

Regards


Jim:
Some ideas for your photo ops:
*- Weather Balloon*

3041755 Weather Balloon, Professional, 3' Dia. $19.95
Pkg of 2 
Edmund Scientific[/b]




- RC Airplane or Helo with camera[/b]







Draganflyer SAVS Stabilized Aerial Video System Gyro Stabilized RC Helicopter $2,500.





















OR

Dragonflyer X6 is the Most Awesome Remote Control Helicopter Ever. Has GPS, Night Vision, Auto-Pilot, Wireless HD Video[/b][/b] 







$14,000 - $25,000 


- Remote Controlled Airships 6' ($1,300) to 16' ($7,000) w/o advertising: Southern Balloon Works[/b] 



























- Hire a real blimp; Goodyear or Metlife w/Snoopy. 









George Schultz lived in Santa Rosa not far away. I could put in a good word with Snoopy... 
(Don't worry, he still has his Sopwith Camel.) 



Or...

Call Bob Weltyk. His son could fly his plane out and do a photo run like he did of Bob's layout.


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm finally getting my act together, so here's a video of Tom Rowe's Aster Berk on a rainy Friday afternoon slipping going up the grade on oily/wet tracks --- and then building momentum to do a scale 120 mph lap with 30 cars in tow! Talk about performance!




There were some nice runs with the Accucraft AC-12 doing both freight service and pulling San Joaquin Daylight (Train 52) with a combination of heavyweights and cast off Coast Daylight cars just like the prototype.





Now to get things close-coupled with decent diaphragms!

Again, thanks to Jim and Jo Anne for hosting.

Best regards,

Alan


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan
Tom would enjoy the video clip, I am sure...I did!


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