# Automating Coal Hoppers



## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

Has anyone automated the doors opening on the bottom of the USATrains or Aristo Coal Hoppers? Is this feasible? My thought was to fill them with real rice coal and somehow empty the load via the doors?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's here somewhere... someone used servos and DCC to open and close the doors. 

Also dump cars... 

All do-able... 

Figure out the control system first, although you will be pretty safe with small servos... 

Greg


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

A friend of mine has a neat coal yard on his HO layout. The coal "dump" area is raised. The car is pushed up to it and uncoupled, and the device rotates the hopper 180 degrees to dump it. It then returns it to the track, lets go, and the car rolls down to re-connect with it's mating cars and await picking up by an engine. I always thought it would be interesting to try to do that with large scale trains. Not quite what you had in mind, but an impressive sight.

Ed


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

I haven't done it but I've put a lot of thought into it. I think there must be some way to make it all happen with magnets (electromagnets, cut the power doors open, restore power doors close). 
For what it's worth, I use black fish tank gravel for coal, dingy red for iron ore.


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I'd be concerned that the rice would not flow out of the chutes without some prodding given the grain friction and the chute size.

Have you thought about a Rotary Hopper Dumper? It would be quite impressive!


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## K.A.Simpson (Mar 6, 2008)

I use the HobbykingTx & RX system http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/2point4GHz.htm 

I saw on utube the way to connect up bombay doors on model airplanes. This gave the ideas for the hopper doors. 
Many commercial ore/coal cars on the market will not have the strength to be used consistantly as remote dump cars. The plastic will destruct. 

I built mine from scratch with the servo operating the doors. I needed some more action on the layout for my grandkids. The first loco drives up a siding to the top off the loading hopper, it then dumps its load, simply by using the switch on the TX. 

Underneath the hopper another train is waiting and is immediately loaded, which then proceedes around the 250 ft layout. While it is traveling around the first loco reverses down from the top of the loader, takes the siding to wait for its load. Then loco traveling around the track then eventually drives up the ramp to dump its load. 

In theory I can have 5 locos running, provided everyone wants to wait their turn. 2 or 3 locos is better. 

Problems can be to much load in the hopper. It seems the weight can cause a jamming of the product in the opening. 

I use new cat litter (unused, just for the "dump" cars, no pun intended) 

I tried biulding a rotary dump machine but the space and engineering reqiured was beyond me at this time, remember it has to look reasonable as well. Perhaps if I had more information and some drawings & photos i would have another go. 

Andrew 
Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I have done it using LGB RhB hopper cars, DCC and servos--it works very well. As HH says, though, you have to watch the maximum particle size you use so the aggregate doesn't "bridge" at the openings. I believe I used a 2 or 2.36mm size screen for mine. Using a function decoder you can either have the servo go from defined end position to defined end position, or if the decoder has the capability you can run the servo with your throttle to open/close it exactly the amount you want. The latter is the way I do it using a Massoth 8FL function decoder. It's a lot of fun and I highly recommend you give it a go. If you aren't running DCC there is probably a way to trigger the servos too...have to give that some thought. 

Keith


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

What if you put the actuator in the ground and use a lever to unlatch/relatch the doors. A small spring and simple latch should close while empty. 
All servos are kept out of the bay and out of sight. 
An air jet might free a stuck load.... 
Magnets and reed switches to automate.... with a Tx each car needs a different Rx or they might all dump at the same time.... 

Just some thoughts. 

John


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## Batsco (Mar 30, 2011)

Using the Hobbyking 2.4Ghz Rx/Tx remote control you could have up to 6 wagons + operating off the one Tx just by using a different channel on each Rx in a wagon. 
Unless you are trying to model a conveyor line with rotary dumpers etc, for small layouts the Hobbyking system would be a cost effective way of achieveing R/C on a small entry level scale. 
It seems to be cheap and easily done by any non electronically minded person.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Most coal stations have a vibrator located to vibrate the car to eliminate the sticking on bottom dump cars for all seasons. Rotary dumpers will have both vibrators and heaters to loosen the coal for dumping in the colder norther climates. From a material handling point, most stationary hoppers for handling coal have a 60 degree or larger slope sheet. This is the recommended slope by CEMA (Conveyor Equipment Manufacturer's Association). Most rolling stock is usually 45 degrees or somewhat flatter. Clean dry coal will usually flow at that angle, but add moisture and cold temperatures to the mix and coal can get real hard to handle. 

Bob C.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So,................. let me throw out this idea and turn the herd around a bit..!!? 

Why not go a bit simpler...? How difficult would it be to make a positioning stop that locates each car for dumping, grips the car, and design a mechanism that opens the doors from beneath the car..? doors open against the stock springs and close when released by the door opening device! down goes the coal or iron loads into a big chute!! just need to know that the stock springs will stay closed with a load in the car body... 

Seems like a lot of parts are in each car... battery / receiver / servo - where does the coal fit ..? 

Look at it from a different angle!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry. .. http://dmsry.blogspot.com/ 
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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I'd keep it simple.

Just open the "front" door. A small solonoid attached to the bottom of the car would open the door by pulling a pin or magnet. The solonoid could receive power from a "3rd rail pick-up." Alternatively, this power could be contained within/under the car and a bump between the rails with a corrosponding switch mounted under the car, or magnet at the rails with a reed switch mounted to the car to activate the solonoid.

A "bump" located between the rails would push the door closed when the train proceeds forward after the dump.

I use these solonoids to activate an MP3 player by pushing it buttons:





Small 12 volt push-type solonoid


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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

Since I don't want to modify the hoppers, I'm thinking along the lines of some sort of servo controller such as the Pololu Maestro series. It should be able to open the doors and then close them at the end of the operation. 

http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1350 

It has a USB port plus it can execute its own scripts. You could use an external computer to make sure the car is in position, then just start a canned cycle in the controller? Not sure but I'm leaning in that direction... 

The problem would be, how do you know when the car is empty? Perhaps a pressure transducer to weigh the car? Or simpler would just be a standard delay time. Hmm. 

I guess I'm going to need a conveyor to load these puppies too? Another topic I suppose


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess I'm going to need a conveyor to load these puppies too? Another topic I suppose 

I can help you out there!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally I'd go with the rotary dump. Maybe not as complex as trying to open and close doors. Later RJD


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 01 Nov 2012 03:06 PM 
I guess I'm going to need a conveyor to load these puppies too? Another topic I suppose 

I can help you out there!



Ok, that looks great, but how about a little information on that conveyor? I like it, did you build it or buy it? 
Bob


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

on the conveyor the tires are RC airplane tires, by Du Bro! The conveyor looks pretty cool too.. 

Dirk DmS Ry. http://dmsry.blogspot.com/


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Built the conveyor myself, Bob, and Dirk--you're right on the money on the tires! It's all made of brass, motor is a Maxon gearhead motor and a cog-belt drive to the headpulley. The wheels can be rotated so they are in "travel mode" and it can be lifted up and down with the telescopic tubing. Belt is a bicycle innertube, cut to the right width and sewed together. 
Keith


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

i once made a hopper with a simple mecanic opener.just awire sticking out at the side and lowered by a wiremade railing paralell to the track.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ah Keith, yes - ask me how I knew what the tires were?!!!! hehe 

20 years of planes will do it!! 

great little conveyor You have there, I have hand built several of the real thing in My life also, a 25 footer and a couple 40ftr's... lots of work, but they moved rock well!! 

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

K, what did you do for the 'rollers' under the belt on the top - the V saddles?? 

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

changed drives and did some digging to find these.. 

here are the 25 foot and 40 foot conveyors I built for a former employer. 

 

 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Dirk, nice job on the conveyors! I'm in the roadbuilding business so spent most of my life playing with gravel and screening/crushing equipment. 
You asked about the rollers, here's a couple of pictures:


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Keith, 

Incredible detail and work, in our scale!! Your metal work is impeccable also! must have a miniature metal shop. I'll come over!! 

I worked some in rock and crushing, but have mostly been a mechanic and fabricator, in many fields!! They were copies of several the company had purchased, which means I built them with inter-changeable parts, thus reducing the spare parts inventory for all conveyors on sight!! Worked out well and everything could be swapped around.. 

What are you using in your miniature shop for the great work? THX BTW... 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Could you post a new thread on how you built the conveyors? I'm seriously thinking about having an operating railroad were loads are actual loads, and empties are empties... My first idea to build for unloading product is a feed mill. Something like this wold work to remove the material from under the unloading shed, and dump it into a bucket to be reused.. 

Craig


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dirk, glad you like it! 

I use a small Sherline lathe for making things like the head and tail pulley, but otherwise I just use hand tools. My favourite tool by far is a file. For soldering I use a small butane torch. Sorry I don't have any plans--I plan and build as I go. 

Keith


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I like 'plan & build' as you go!! 

works for me also!! 

Dirk


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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

Man, I'm going to have to ask more questions! Incredible work guys, really fantastic stuff and some great ideas.


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Wow amazing thread....
i had in mind a mining theme for my garden layout....
Something based on the german ruhr area mining. I wanted to build a ming tower which lofts up the little mining lorryies and transfers the coal to a proper tain, run it over the layout and ump it into a chute. Then have the cal moved backinto the mining lores underground....
The idea with the solanoids sound great....
If somebody omes up with a working converion can you post a how to article?
Chhers michael


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## K.A.Simpson (Mar 6, 2008)

Now this is great information, any ideas are greatly appreciated. Sometimes another persons ideas can fix a problem that I have been trying to overcome. I look forward to some great articles & "how To's" 
Andrew 
Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Martan, 

I spent a few years working in the conveyor industry. Do a Google search for 'conveyor idlers', and you will be able to learn all you ever wanted to know about them. As with all Google searches, one thing will lead to another and you will move into learning about the conveyors them selves, belting, and on and on. 

@Cougar Rock - Nice conveyor build. Really captures the essence of the conveyor, chute work, etc. 

Bob C.


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