# What to do????



## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been toying with the idea of getting a live steam engine to play with. I have been searching around to see what I like that is in my price range. I want to keep the price under $500. I know that really limits me but I am one of those who cant see spending more then x amount on an engine. Im just looking for something thats fun to fool around with. I first looked at Regner and found the Max. Its a cute little loco and seems like a simple slow runner and the fuel source is sterno. How is it on small grades? I am also looking at the Ruby. I love small locos like the 0-4-0's but my concern is the ruby is a fast runner and from what I gather not great on grades. (my layout has grades but nothing big) I understand putting cars behind the Ruby will slow her down and adding RC to it (something I will do down the road) will also allow me to control it on the grades. I also understand Roundhouse engines are bullet proof. I like the Sammie but I cant find a price for one. What does everyone else think? What other engines are out their for under $500. I also would rather buy a new engine. The biggest thing for me is price.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Shawn
Here is another entry level steamer for consideration:

WuHu Porter

I would guess in your decision making process that along with price; you will have determined factors such as:


Scale
rolling stock
radius of track
Narrow or standard gauge

Hope that your experience will be a positive one, enjoy


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Why not take a look at the newer Accucraft Forneys.

They have bigger cylinders and a sight glass plus look like a bigger loco.

And the cost is only about $100 more.

And the service given by the importer is second to none.


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## scoobster28 (Sep 15, 2008)

All your listed options are good. However, if you are thinking Roundhouse and thinking $500 you got another think coming! They are bullet proof and worth every penny, but the "Millie" (which is like a Sammie) costs $900ish before shipping. Call around to some of the dealers who advertise here and they might be able to get you a deal, but I think you will spend close to $1000 to have one in hand when it is all said and done.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Years ago I was told that a cheap Mercedes is the most expensive one. 

Finding out the same with live steam.....BUT! 

Sometimes in the end it is more fun that way and you can do it over time. 

Shawn, a bit over your pricerange, but have you looked at (for your grades and interest in logging) a Cricket?


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't go it alone, 
Find some live steamers in your area and play with their toys or at least watch. You might decide a larger expenditure is well worth it if it grabs you. 
I second Bruce's A-craft Forney suggestion vs a Ruby. 
No one mentioned the build-it-yourself BAGRS loco. It's a great learning experience and a fine little backwoods type loco. I don't know where you'd get the parts since Sulphur Springs demise but it would be a fun, inexpensive project. 
Tom


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## John Riley (Jan 3, 2008)

Shawn, 

Given your specifications, a loco under $500, and a track layout with some gradient, I would think a geared engine is in order. Were I starting out, a Regner Max would be my selection. I have a small (120 ft) backyard track with 10 ft diameter curves but no gradients and own and run a number of engines: from a Mamod (purchased used and converted to gas firing), an Argyle Bantam (purchased used), a Roundhouse Millie, an alcohol fired Roundhouse Dylan (purchased used), two Rubies, one sitting on the shelf awaiting a 7.8ths Fairymede Baldwin 0-4-2 conversion, the other a propane fired Ruby/Forney bash, both Rubies I fitted with aftermarket larger cylinders and burners. I built a Regner Lumberjack kit which was a good experience and sold it on to acquire a very slightly used Regner Vincent. Both are great engines. My experience shows the Ruby and the Mamod demand more of the operator than do the others. BTW, I have put my money where my mouth is and have a Regner Max on order. No matter what your decision, you will find it is a wonderful hobby. 

My only connection to the above named manufacturers is that of a satisfied customer. 

More power to your elbow, 

John Riley


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Shawn, 

You should come down to one of our steam-ups in Monmouth Co. Between the couple of us here you can see a few different locos that can handle grades and are not that bad as far as price. 

I also know of a few used locos at a reasonable price.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I bought a ruby. It's not a great runner out of the box--it does want to run fast. I increased the boiler pressure on mine with a simple, free mod. That increased the pulling power a lot. I added remote control, and messed with the burner to try to get it more under control. I'm getting larger cylinders for it. It will end up being close to what a roundhouse would cost, but an entry level roundhouse which would not have a reversing lever.

The Ruby has a lot going for it, despite its shortcomings. I had fun modifying mine, but I would look at the Accucraft Forney.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

My suggestion is get a Ruby Kit. Learn how to build it and it will be easier to make it run. Its also a great model to modify like above.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

lownote and Richard: Sweet Ruby mods. Well done all around. That's the way to go.

vr


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Shawn
A great overview of the process for mod's to a Ruby was done on MLS:

Steam class 


There has been many excellent conversion of Ruby's brought about by MLS members, one might not recognize the engine as a Ruby.....











Even coal fired


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

Sweet, Richard! I want to see more photos as that progresses. (And of course I'd like to include one in my Ruby mods gallery.)


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## Chrisp (Jan 3, 2008)

Shawn - if you are on a tight budget, I'd recommend keeping your eyes open for a used Regner geared loco. I just bougt a used Chaloner for around $500 and it runs great, nice and slow and handles my modest grades just fine. I also have a Vincent that despite being a one cylinder loco is a really great puller and also runs nice and slow. They seem to be pretty durable and simple, a good combo if buying used.


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

I have to side with Chris-- the Regner "Easy Line" are great locos. I know you were considering the Max. The Max is new so no one really has any experience with it but Konrad, Vincent, Willi, etc. are great locos. I have a Konrad that has been extensively kitbashed. I love it-- I dare say it is my favorite loco now. The Knorad has LOW gearing. It walks around at a nice leisurely pace regardless of train length and track grades. Because it is single cylinder the loco can only be manually controlled-- but due to the gearing it is very well behaved. You just set the throttle and sit back and enjoy. They have some nice features that you won't find on a regular Ruby like a sight glass, pressure gauge and a metered, adjustable lubricator with a drain. 

The bad news is that you will have to adjust your budget a bit if you buy a Konrad, Willi or Vincent, etc. new. Konrad and Willi remain to be the cheapest locos in the line (besides the sterno fired Max) and they cost $735. Well worth it IMHO. Perhaps you can score a used one for a deal though... 

Here is what my Konrad looks like after some serious bashing: 










Regards,


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric, have you posted that convesion before? It looks familiar. Either way, VERY sharp!


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Garrett, Thanks for the compliment. I did post on this project a while back. I managed to scrape a second place win in the SITG Konrad bash contest. You can read up by  clicking here.  

Thanks again.


Regards,


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

As an almost total novice in live steam--the ruby was the first live steamer I ever owned, and it's still the only one--I realized pretty quickly that live steam is a very different ballpark. I'm an ok woodworker, I can work with styrene and other plastic, but machines made of metal, with parts under pressure, are a whole other beast and require a whole different set of tools and skills. I'm still trying to figure out where I could put a lathe or a milling machine, and the answer is pretty much "in the doghouse, where you'll be sleeping."

The ruby is easy to mess with--the mods I did are very simple and not in the same league as Richard's work. But to do the things I'd like to do to it--add a sight glass, bigger cylinders, adding steam cocks to the cylinders, things like that--are beyond my skills and tools. 


I suppose that's an argument for buying a more expensive model to start out. But also, learning is a large part of the pleasure for me, and so I don't regret the Ruby at all


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Lownote, 

I feel your pain about the lathe and mill. I have been dreaming of a shop for years, and the stars lined up these past two months. I was able to sell a steam plant model for great money, found a deal on a sherline shop setup on ebay, and was determined to make a shop for it. I joined a local railroad club, brought in some of my wares and got the okay to turn a large furnace room which has become a catch all storage mess into a shop area. it will include a computer work station, machine bench and two assemply benches. 

All I am saying is, don't give up, and if you ever find yourself on the Cape, say hi and I'll bring you to the club.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Lownote, 
If you can work in wood, you can work in metal. I am a beginner in metal except for a small course of study in jewelry where I had to fabricate a piece and cast another piece. These were freeform objects with no consideration for small tolerances. Machining is much more different from jewelry than it is from wood working. I worked in a few production woodworking shops and we dealt with some tight tolerances and an assortment of raw materials. 
The space for these smaller lathes and mills is negligible. My lathe is parked on my bench when its being used and on a shelf when it is not. I don't think it weight more than 30 lbs and it only set me back 500 bucks from carter tools, brand new. 
As for the mill, I am still working on that one. Right now I purchased the milling table for the lathe, that and the rotary table attached to my bench top variable speed drill press make up my complete machine shop with a foot print of 2' x 3' of shop space when it is all out and working. 
BTW, I've seen Erics Conrad in action, on several occasions. It is a work of art, all the detail he added. I wouldn't mind having one myself


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Snowshoe, 

Welcome to the world of live steam, Many suggestions have been offered to you. Being a Live Steam Addict, let me say you can't go wrong here, there is some great advice. And let it be known, the Ruby is a gateway drug. Renger, Accucraft, or the BPE, all are good choices. Be warned, should you walk this path, you are in for a journey unmatched. Strap in, find some funding and hold on, you are in for a wild ride, enjoy!


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks everyone for great advice. I figure York is coming up so it will give me an oppertunity to see some steam and maybe get a good deal. I like the idea of something geared low. I want something that can go slow and handle grades. I love the Ruby because im a fan of the 0-4-0 engines like that. But the speed im not crazy about. The Regners seem to be what Im after for speed. Too bad there is not enough info on the Max. I did see a youtube vid on it and it runs at a good speed but that was on flat track. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ub1ueWGYmk

I also though not too smart using an open flame on carpet. What was he thinking.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Live steam on carpet is NOT too smart - unless you aren't married and live alone and can put up with oil and grease spots!


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## steamboatmodel (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Shay Gear Head on 12 Mar 2010 07:12 AM 
Live steam on carpet is NOT too smart - unless you aren't married and live alone and can put up with oil and grease spots!
I think that maybe he is probably a teenage running it when his parents aren't there.
It certainly looks like a commercial BAGRS Basic Project Engine.
Regards,
Gerald.


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

That Max is an attractive little loco. Just looking at the closeup stills at the end of the video it appears to have a pretty low gearing arrangement, with a double reduction gear through an intermediate jack shaft. The biggest drawback I can see is that the cylinder size is smaller than the other "Easy Line" locos, and it looks to only be driven on one axle. With the wood frame it probably weighs quite a bit less too so my guess is it can probably only pull a couple light weight wagons. It looks quite nice though. Shawn, I would say it could be a nice possibility for you. It's good that you are doing a bit of research before you take the plunge though. 

Regards,


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## Bruce (Jan 3, 2008)

For a little more $ I would recommend a Regner easy line engine. I have the Willi and its a great little engine. It pulls well, will run very slow and is very easy to control without rc. For a less expensive engine it even comes with a sight glass. I installed the water refeed valve on my Willi and I can keep it in steam for 45 to 50 minutes just adding water throughout the run. The Wilma and Vincent come with a boiler refeed valve. 
No i'm not a Regner salesman, just a happy Regner owner. 

Bruce.


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Bruce, 

Regner Max= $374.85 

Regner Willi/Konrad= $735.00 

That is a price difference of $360.15-- not exactly a little more $-- basically Willi and Konrad are twice the price. There is no doubt that they are great engines. As I already recommended them to Shawn on page 2 of this thread-- but there is a price for all those extra features.


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