# The One that Almost Got Scrapped



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a short story of a long project to model an east Broad Top wooden hopper from scratch, using just the available photos. I had a Microlux mini table saw and had cut wood to scale sizes on it, so I figured it was time to make a wooden freight car with the right size pieces of wood.


The cars were ex-Hancock & Calumet wooden hoppers that arrived on the EBT around 1900, and like most hoppers of that era had wooden sides and wooden hopper bays in the center. EBT rebuilt them three times, the final version being extended upwards by several more planks, a brow fitted on the top, and then the cars were lined with steel, fitted with a steeel hopper bay, and new Vulcan trucks were added. 











So, in the summer of 2009, I took the two photos that I knew about in the book, and set the side view into my Visio drawing program. With a little adjustment I got it square, and with the dimensions of the guy in the first pic, I laid out what I thought were the dimensions on top of the photo. (Visio conveniently lets you use one page as background to the drawing page, and also lets you insert a photo on a page - so it is fairly easy to dimension something from a photo if you have one or two measurements.)












I then drew the sides, front and various details of the car in order to end up with something I could put on the workbench to build on. Basswood and balsa were bought at Michaels crafts and cut to size on the table saw. I decided balsa would give me a nice grain under the paint so it was used for the sides. I made a jig for drilling the uprights from a piece of square brass tube that fit over the basswood, making it easy to reproduce all those uprights with staggered bolt heads.


The winter of 2009/2010 resulted in significant progress, with the frame completed and the sides made as a unit that slotted in to the stake pockets on the side of the frame. Small pins from Michaels were used as boltheads and easily pushed through the balsa. With the drawings flat on the bench, it was fairly easy to put the pieces together.











The tie rods were brass, and a host of Ozark parts were used for tie rod "pads" where the rods passed over the wood frame crossmembers, nbws (nut-bolt-washer castings) for the ends and turnbuckles in the middle. I also discovered their 'K brake' kit of parts for adding full brake gear, so I procured some of them.











I finally glued the body sides and ends together, but theoretically it could be lifted from the frame.
That's the state it was in when I took it outside for a photo.











The brake gear was a bit of a pain, as EBT had retrofitted it to the cars and it was outboard of the hopper bays, so it was quite visible. (On the later steel hoppers they mounted the air brake equipment under the slope sheets at the ends.)













Then, at the 2010 Friends of the East Broad Top Reunion, the problem arrived, in the form of Bill Adam's superb On3 model of the same car. FEBT has a model competition, and I had taken my RY Models Mikado #15 to show it to the gathering of 'Friends', and I entered a couple of my models in the competition (though not this hopper.) Not only did Bill win the contest, but afterwards he informed me he had the offficial plans for the hopper and several more photos!! 













He mailed me copies of the plans and a CD of the photos, plus photos of his build process. I was gnashing my teeth for several reasons - how come he knew there were plans and no-one else did? [ FEBT probably had them.] Was my hopper anywhere near the right dimensions? And, worst of all, the new photos and plans clearly showed that those "bolt heads" were actually the nut-bolt-washers on bolts put through from the inside. it made sense - the steel interior should be as smooth as possible - but that hadn't been clear to me at the time I started. I was faced, perhaps, with reworking all the bolts on all the uprights on the car - a huge job.


So there the project sat for over a year, while I wrestled with whether to scrap it and start again or just to finish it as it stood. Finally, early this year, I acquired another Bachmann 2-bay hopper which allowed me to install archbar trucks and pretend it is a Pressed Steel hopper that EBT purchased around the same time they finished converting the wooden hoppers to steel linings and new trucks. With my C-19 #7 backdated to EBT circa 1910, I realised I had the beginnings of an early EBT freight train - and Geoff and Kevin's caboose #26 clinched the thought. So after setting up PSC hopper #838 I took out the bits of the H&C hopper and finished the brake gear, end details, and hopper bay closing wheels (which were another Ozark part, but I don't remember which.) 












Here's the brake gear in all its glory, hanging off the side of the car to avoid the hopper bays.












And an end view with the brake wheel and platform for the brakeman.














So there it sits on the shelves until I have a minute to paint it. I don't plan to give the wood too much primer - I think a thin coat of black primer to cover the metal parts, then another thin coat of flat black enamel should give me a nice worn grainy look. We will see.


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, that looks great! What kind of wood is it? do you glue all the pins in place? 

I'd be afraid to run that on our layout--too much detail and too well done!


----------



## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice! 

Best, 
TJ


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

"Photos that I knew about in the book" Pete, what book? They are not in my two EBT books, so what else have you found? 

Larry


----------



## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Superb work Pete, a very skilled piece! 

Alec


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Well done! I'm looking forward to post painting pictures. Do you have decals for it yet? It will look very nice. I love wooden hoppers and yours is very inspiring. I'd like to make some modeled after the style of the HO scale Tichy ones, but sized for Fn3. Thanks for keeping the rest of us inspired.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words. 

What kind of wood is it? do you glue all the pins in place 
The frame is basswood and the sides are balsa - both bought at Michaels Crafts. 




"Photos that I knew about in the book" Pete, what book? They are not in my two EBT books, so what else have you found? 
Larry, 

THE Book: Rainey & Kuyper. 















The plans I drew are online at freightsheds.largescalecentral.com/users/petert/_forumfiles/PDF-Visio-HC-hopper-3-PThornton-legal-p7.pdf [ freightsheds dot largescalecentral dot com/users/petert/_forumfiles/PDF-Visio-HC-hopper-3-PThornton-legal-p7.pdf if that link doesn't work. ] They are set up for legal size paper.


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, yes I have that one by R & K, as well as Heimberger's book. It's the first photo, of car 630, that I don't recall seeing before, so I thought you had found another book, as well. 

Larry


----------



## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks great, Pete! I'm a big wood hopper fan, too. Glad you finished it. 

Take care, 
Matt


----------



## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Pete,
I was looking at your posted photographs and trying to think where I've seen these hopper cars before.
I looked through the book " Canadian Railways Volume 2" by John Riddell, and found them. In this book there are some photo's of hoppers used by Canadian Collieries (Dunsmuir) Ltd. Apparently there is one preserved at the Puget Sound Railway & Historical Society in Snoqualmie Falls, Washington. Another two are listed as being in the Ladysmith Railway Historical Society Collection in Ladysmith, British Columbia.
Cheers.


----------



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

Very nice car! I hope my short version turns out that well! 
I didn't realize that those wood cars were as tall as the steel ones. Coal probably weighs a whole lot less than copper bearing rock, by volume.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

those wood cars were as tall as the steel ones 
I think it is more that they built them up to a "standard" height which seemed to be '3 more planks' tall. They had to fit the loading facilities at the mines. 

And it does seem that metal ores are less heavy than coal when you fill a hopper car. 

Update: I managed to put a coat of paint on the car, and parked it next to my delton/aristo ore hopper and my PSC 2-bay steol hopper. I have 2 more Q&TL ore hopper kits to make up next winter, and they are all empty. With C-19 #7 in its 1912 disguise, and a 'kit' for caboose #26, I have almost a complete 1912 freight train. But that means the hoppers need to be full or empty - can't have just one with a load and the others not! [Though there is a precedent - EBT used to wash/sort the coal at Mt Union and then take it back to Orbisonia in smaller lots to put in the coaling stage.] 










Anyway, I started thinking of how to make the tall hopper look good without a coal load. It was never intended to be empty so the interior is a mess. But some stiff paper and a good drawing helped me line it with 'steel' so I think it will be presentable. I found the bottom hoppers (left over from an old B'mann 3-bay) were glued in but had gaps around the top - not visible from the side or under the car, but you can see the ballast from the top! Still some work to do.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Apparently there is one preserved at the Puget Sound Railway & Historical Society in Snoqualmie Falls, Washington. Another two are listed as being in the Ladysmith Railway Historical Society Collection in Ladysmith, British Columbia
Harvey, 

Very interesting. I couldn't find one 'listed' at Puget Sound, and I couldn't find a list at all for Ladysmith. Guess I'll have to find the book - maybe you could take a photo of the page and post it (or send it to me and I'll post it.) I also guess they are standard gauge? (The EBT is a 3' gauge line, as were the Michigan ore carriers.)


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, my trip got cancelled, the power went out and the sun shone, so I got to finish my hopper.

As mentioned above, the interior had to look like it was sheathed in steel, so paper did the trick. Her's the before and after:






















The side grain is a bit pronounced, but sure looks like wood! (Balsa, actually.) 










And you can get really close without losing the effect:


----------



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I see that on the 3rd rebuilding, the EBT changed the bolsters on the cars to an all steel type. I like the way you modeled those. I wonder if the real ones were built up or cast? I'm working on the double steel plate bolsters for the original cars this weekend. The cars that I measured had 2 steel plates that were 7 inches wide and 3/4s inch thick for each bolster, with the coupler draft gear beams sandwiched between the 2 plates, and the truck mounting casting was bolted to the plates through the draft gear beams. 
Of course, the brass strips I found were either 5 scale inches wide, or 10 scale inches. Since I can't cut a straight line in brass to make 7 inch wide strips, I'm just going with the 10 inch wide stuff.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I see that on the 3rd rebuilding, the EBT changed the bolsters on the cars to an all steel type. I like the way you modeled those. I wonder if the real ones were built up or cast? 
Good question. They were buying steel trucks from Vulcan and could easily have bought cast bolsters with the trucks. But they also bought stuff from Pressed Steel, so they could be made up. EBT were starting to build their own steel hoppers in that period - I imagine after they converted these wooden ones - so they had the tools to make their own.

My 1920s RR Cyclopedia, which has a detailed photo of the trucks, has some cast bolsters. But I've no idea what EBT used.


----------



## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

I wonder if there's any existing examples of these cars? That might be the only way to find out if the bolsters are cast or fabricated.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder if there's any existing examples of these cars? 
None the EBT ones. The last was scrapped in 1930-ish. Which is not to say the tucks and bolsters were not reused, but I doubt anyone knows where.


----------

