# Stop. Before you recycle gadgets, think again!!



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I heard a very disturbing report today about the waste produced when any type of gadget like a computer, cell phone, what have you, becomes unusable. When you think that you are recycling your old computer etc, think again before you give it away. It seems that most, eighty percent, of all electronic devices are shipped overseas to China, the biggest receiver, and to countries in Africa and the far east. Women and children do most of the work dismantling, cooking the parts for their valuable metals and chips, and so forth. Even the plastic parts are cooked and reused in some fashion. As I mentioned, most of this work is done by women and children. In Africa, you can buy the hard drives that have been removed from computers. The going price is around $300.00/hard drive. It seems that all of the information stored on them can be accessed. Meaning SS numbers, bank account information etc, etc, etc, unless you have the hard drive "Wiped" before you trash it. In China, much the same goes on, but it seems that it is more organized and run by companies. The conditions in the towns where the cooking and smelting goes on is utterly deplorable, according to the person being interviewed, as he has first hand knowledge having visited the sites. The entire report can be read or heard here http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, we heard that report today whilst driving to lunch, got a chuckle out of the Futurama bit. Probably part of why I have all of our computers (going back to a 1988 Compaq 386) sitting pretty in storage. 

The computer stuff has been well-documented for a while now. One of the national networks actually physically tracked a container to a third world country from the US a couple years back.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Hard Drives. 
Removed. 
Smashed with a sledge hammer. 
Burned with my cutting torch. 
Run a BIG magnet through the bits. 

Separate into three piles, with dissimilar parts. 
Discard into three separate receptacles in different parts of the city (since it's a smal amount, like a Starbux garbage can). 

I recycle my own stuff. 
Plastics go into recycle, metal goes to the scrap junkies bins at the local machine shop, etcetera, etcetera. 

Most difficult to date has been the freezer.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I had an inkling that a big magnet could do alot of damage to the memory


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I tear all my hard drives apart, save the magnets to hold parts while working on stuff.. 

Once the disks are removed from the drive, they are basically unusable... it would take a lot of money to put them back in shape to even try to read them... 

Put a slight bend in them, they are toast. 

Greg


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Yep, even "erasing" the hard drive isn't good enough, the data is still there. Physical destruction of the disk is the only sure way to prevent misuse of any potentially harmful data. That's why my old drives and computer are sitting in the garage. One of these days, I'll dismantle them, save anything I might be able to use such as motors or magnets, and then get rid of the rest.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I would never throw away a computer with the hard drive still in it. I remove all the drives, and take the hard drives apart as best as I can, and smash and cut up everything. The rest can be picked clean in the third world. 
Paul


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

It's funny how a computer denigrates when going through a car shredder. Just a bunch of small chips. Later RJD


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I tear all my hard drives apart 
Well, before everyone tries it, let me tell you what happened when I did one. My neighbor was worried about the financial information on her old computer, so I recommended she find a program that would repeatedly overwrite the data to make it unusable. [I have no personal experience whether they work or not - maybe Greg knows?] That wasn't good enough anyway - she asked me how to destroy it. I'm always up for a bit of smashing fun, so I took it out and tried to get at the disk. 

That thing was more solid than Fort Knox! The metal frame totally resisted any attempts to chisel it apart, until I got out the really big tools. 

P.S. There's a little air hole in the case over the disk. I've heard you can drill through that and the disk - thus rendering it inoperable. I wanted to see what was inside...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Old drives usually had screws or allen head cap screws to hold them together. Newer drives have metric torx, and usually one "security torx" that has a pin in the center of the screw, requiring your torx wrench to have a hold drilled in the end. (I have a set) 

The recovery of data is based on the fact that regions that have been magnetized for some time, have basically a "ghost" of the original data that provides sort of an "offset" to the magnetic field at that location, whether you have rewritten it recently or not. 

The "wiping" tries to offset this by repeated writing of data. It helps, but does not completely get rid of the "ghost" because the ghost was there because the data was there for a long time (of course this means recoverable data must have been there for a while, so not ALL data has "ghosts" that can be recovered). 

The best thing is just smash the hard disk with a sledge hammer, or you can take them apart and damage the disk surface. It does not take much, these surfaces have to be perfect for the disk to work. 

Regards, Greg


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Best Buy will recycle 2 items per day per customer for free (they charge $20.00 but give you a $20.00 gift card). They do not accept computers with the hard drive installed...You must remove it. I drill a few holes through it and toss it in the trash. Anyone want's it they are more than welcome to go dig for it and put it back together!


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 22 Dec 2010 08:21 AM 
I tear all my hard drives apart
Well, before everyone tries it, let me tell you what happened when I did one. My neighbor was worried about the financial information on her old computer, so I recommended she find a program that would repeatedly overwrite the data to make it unusable. [I have no personal experience whether they work or not - maybe Greg knows?] That wasn't good enough anyway - she asked me how to destroy it. I'm always up for a bit of smashing fun, so I took it out and tried to get at the disk. 

That thing was more solid than Fort Knox! The metal frame totally resisted any attempts to chisel it apart, until I got out the really big tools. 

P.S. There's a little air hole in the case over the disk. I've heard you can drill through that and the disk - thus rendering it inoperable. I wanted to see what was inside... 
That's why I said:
Sledge Hammer
Cutting Torch
Magnet.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

To add to the take it apart and save teh aprts adn nit for use later. A Brother in our lodge was a OLD time repair guy for Sear's for many years. He "saved" everything. Took apart and catalogged each re-cycle-able nut bolt screw, spring, magnet, hunk of brass aluminum or copper. So three years ago his wife get's sick (now Brother Frank was no healthy spring chicken either) and they decide to move to NH to be with their daughter. So to divest himself of YEARS of accumulted "stuff" Sears tools that have been scavenged and fixed full small scale machine shop etc. drawers full of bit pieces and parts. I think every brother in lodge got somehting even if it wa a peanut butter jar full of misc. hardware. I hauled away a trailer load of stuff (workbenches, drawers, etc.) and re-distributed some of it. He still had to PAY for a two 40 yard dumpsters to get rid of all the years of accumulated "stuff". 

Food for thought. 

Chas


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

... and he will be missing his stuff for the rest of his life. 
i know from my own experience when i sold off my ranch, that for years to come every time he wants to repair/build something, he first will think: "oh i got just the piece i need" - before he realizes, that the "treasures" are gone.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

If you do a "system restore" on Windows XP..where it puts the computer back to its day-1 configuration, 
does that wipe out all of your personal data? 
(I believe it does, but im not totally sure) 
not restored to a previous saved data point..not a clean install from a windows CD..but the system restore back to the state it was in when you first brought it home.. 
im not sure if its called "system restore" or "system recovery".. 
(im typing this from a win 7 machine, so I cant check..and google is uncertain..) 

thanks, 
Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

found it!
google knew it afterall..I just had to ask it the right question..
it wasnt a windows thing I was talking about..it was a HP thing..

HP system recovery 

I did that on a machine that was given to a relative..
worked like a charm..the computer was literally restored to its day-1 state..
I thought it wiped out personal data..looks like it does..

if you have an HP you want to give away to someone, this could be a good option for "cleaning" the computer..

Scot


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 22 Dec 2010 12:54 PM 
If you do a "system restore" on Windows XP..where it puts the computer back to its day-1 configuration, 
does that wipe out all of your personal data? 
(I believe it does, but im not totally sure) 
not restored to a previous saved data point..not a clean install from a windows CD..but the system restore back to the state it was in when you first brought it home.. 
im not sure if its called "system restore" or "system recovery".. 
(im typing this from a win 7 machine, so I cant check..and google is uncertain..) 

thanks, 
Scot 

System restore only restores your computer back to an earlier date! If your hard drive crashes and you can't access your restore feature you have to restore your computer with the original system operating disc you received with the computer when you first bought. ask me I just had to do this twice in the last 4 weeks, unsure why but I did, and YES you loose all your info, except what the original operating system disc puts back on your computer, then you will have to go through some 200 or less updates, and about 12hrs. of waiting, and re-enter all your personal settings, websites, info that you put in after you originally purchased the machine!! It's at least a two day ordeal thingy, and then every day remembering or finding out you haven't got this or that and have to find or re-enter websites and such!! In other words on mine it took the computer back to 2004 when I purchased it....... Regal



And yes it's a PITA to do but at least I have a computer restored back to when I first purchased it instead of a piece of metal that no longer works. I use 2 other computers, keep them uncluttered for our live shows, and this old one I use to speaketh to you guys here, email, Facebook, and "Evil Bay" and "PreyPal" functions, that way if i'm hijacked, assaulted, and or other wise harmed in any way old compuker wise, I still have 2 really good ones to fall back on!! LOL Regal


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

The breaking up of the hardware is the easy part. What troubled me the most about the report was what we are doing, unknowingly, for the most part, to the third world. It makes me feel bad to be an American.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Madman on 22 Dec 2010 06:00 PM 
The breaking up of the hardware is the easy part. What troubled me the most about the report was what we are doing, unknowingly, for the most part, to the third world. It makes me feel bad to be an American. 


I'm sorry, but I just don't see how "we" are "doing" anything to anyone....the overseas companies buy the used 'puters, and overseas companies employ women & children to dismantle & recycle them. China is also buying all kinds of scrap steel from us, just like the Japanese used to do a couple of decades ago with old decommissioned warships.

Once the buyer takes possession of said used items & ships them out of the USA, it no longer involves us Americans. After all, aren't we supposed to keep our noses out of other countries' business????


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By silverstatespecialties on 22 Dec 2010 07:57 PM 
Posted By Madman on 22 Dec 2010 06:00 PM 
The breaking up of the hardware is the easy part. What troubled me the most about the report was what we are doing, unknowingly, for the most part, to the third world. It makes me feel bad to be an American. 


I'm sorry, but I just don't see how "we" are "doing" anything to anyone....the overseas companies buy the used 'puters, and overseas companies employ women & children to dismantle & recycle them. China is also buying all kinds of scrap steel from us, just like the Japanese used to do a couple of decades ago with old decommissioned warships.

Once the buyer takes possession of said used items & ships them out of the USA, it no longer involves us Americans. After all, aren't we supposed to keep our noses out of other countries' business????




The way I see it, we are supposed to be recycling our electronics. In good faith we give our old equipment over to the hands of companies that are supposed to be doing just that. Instead, these companies are selling the stuff to overseas buyers because it's easier and cheaper than dismantling the equipment here and placing the hazardous materials in the proper places. If you haven't listened to the report from NPR, then please do at; 
http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/


You may feel differently after you have heard it told much better than I can do.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I did not listen to the entire NPR bit (had to eat lunch and get back to work) but I bet it is the same as what was found by one of the big three networks in the US. 

Stuff is taken by a company that claims it will be disposed of properly, but the container was physically tracked to China/India/Alabama or some other third world place and hacked up by the locals after people paid to not have it done this way. 

Read up on the Alang shipyard sometime....makes one's stomach churn.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I've always used the Curmudgen method. Remove the hard drive and beat the crap out of it with a hammer unitl all my past computer frustrations are gone. Sometimes takes awhile.


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## Joe Bartolini (Jan 2, 2008)

download and run Boot & Nuke http://www.dban.org/ DoD approved.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Madman on 22 Dec 2010 09:17 PM The way I see it, we are supposed to be recycling our electronics. In good faith we give our old equipment over to the hands of companies that are supposed to be doing just that. Instead, these companies are selling the stuff to overseas buyers because it's easier and cheaper than dismantling the equipment here and placing the hazardous materials in the proper places. If you haven't listened to the report from NPR, then please do at; 

http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/


You may feel differently after you have heard it told much better than I can do.





I did in fact, but still don't quite see what the concern is about...if one is that concerned about how their old items are supposed to be recycled, then perhaps they should dismantle & recycle the items themselves.

I've traveled all over the world when in the military; what others deem as acceptable in their own lands is often considered shocking by Americans or other westerners.

In essence, I am dismayed that old electronics would end up this way...but if these folks didn't want to earn a couple of bucks, they wouldn't do this type of work. This is also why my family & I collect all of our recyclables and once a month we take them to the recycling center for cash, instead of putting them into the recycling bins provided by the trash company for bi-weekly pickup.

Which leads me to the next point: lately with the high unemployment we have here, there are quite a few folks going around the night before recycle collection day (for the people who put their trash & recyclables out at night instead of the morning of pick-up) with their pickups & large trailers, and they empty the recycle bins on the curbs into their trailers, so that they can later take the haul to the recycling center and get cash for others' recyclables. Is it against the law? No, not here...it is considered abandoned property, just like garbage; once it is left on the curb, it is fair game for whomever wants to dig through it or take it. Is it unethical? I think so...that is why my family & I make a trip once a month to the closest recycle yard to get a few bucks...better we get it than let some stranger profit from our work of separating & collecting.

Now, if those same people wanted to take my entire trash load and dig through it somewhere else, looking for anything valuable, well I don't care about that...if I did, I'd haul it to the dump myself. And I don't pay anyone to recycle anything of mine...I'll dismantle it myself and haul the components to the recycle center.

Sorry, but I'm a firm believer that once you give something away, you lose responsibility for whatever happens to it afterwards...otherwise, dispose or dismantle yourself.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By silverstatespecialties on 23 Dec 2010 09:29 PM 
Posted By Madman on 22 Dec 2010 09:17 PM The way I see it, we are supposed to be recycling our electronics. In good faith we give our old equipment over to the hands of companies that are supposed to be doing just that. Instead, these companies are selling the stuff to overseas buyers because it's easier and cheaper than dismantling the equipment here and placing the hazardous materials in the proper places. If you haven't listened to the report from NPR, then please do at; 

http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/


You may feel differently after you have heard it told much better than I can do.





I did in fact, but still don't quite see what the concern is about...if one is that concerned about how their old items are supposed to be recycled, then perhaps they should dismantle & recycle the items themselves.

I've traveled all over the world when in the military; what others deem as acceptable in their own lands is often considered shocking by Americans or other westerners.

In essence, I am dismayed that old electronics would end up this way...but if these folks didn't want to earn a couple of bucks, they wouldn't do this type of work. This is also why my family & I collect all of our recyclables and once a month we take them to the recycling center for cash, instead of putting them into the recycling bins provided by the trash company for bi-weekly pickup.

Which leads me to the next point: lately with the high unemployment we have here, there are quite a few folks going around the night before recycle collection day (for the people who put their trash & recyclables out at night instead of the morning of pick-up) with their pickups & large trailers, and they empty the recycle bins on the curbs into their trailers, so that they can later take the haul to the recycling center and get cash for others' recyclables. Is it against the law? No, not here...it is considered abandoned property, just like garbage; once it is left on the curb, it is fair game for whomever wants to dig through it or take it. Is it unethical? I think so...that is why my family & I make a trip once a month to the closest recycle yard to get a few bucks...better we get it than let some stranger profit from our work of separating & collecting.

Now, if those same people wanted to take my entire trash load and dig through it somewhere else, looking for anything valuable, well I don't care about that...if I did, I'd haul it to the dump myself. And I don't pay anyone to recycle anything of mine...I'll dismantle it myself and haul the components to the recycle center.

Sorry, but I'm a firm believer that once you give something away, you lose responsibility for whatever happens to it afterwards...otherwise, dispose or dismantle yourself.

Sorry, too.... but I did not GIVE AWAY anything... I PAY someone through my municipal taxes (actually in my case it is a bill associated with my water usage) or if I find a recycler, (whether they pay me or I pay them) to RESPONSIBLY dispose of HAZARDOUS materials, I expect them to do so without endangering my fellow earth inhabitants.

There are materials in computers and electronic toys that are dangerous to ALL life in the concentrations present in the devices. What some of these, so called, "recyclers" are doing is totally unconscionable and irresponsible to YOU and ME as well to the people that are so poor they are willing to destroy their environment while trying to eke out a living using unsafe methods to extract SOME of the materials and dumping the rest on the ground.

By the way... it matters not whether you put some stuff in one waste basket and some in another waste receptacle, it all gets dumped together in the landfill and leaches out into the water YOU drink, and if not, you, then the water your neighbor drinks, whether that neighbor is within sight distance or in the next city, county, state, or country.

Irresponsibility is irresponsibility. Dumping your garbage on someone else is absolutely no different than my dumping my garbage on YOU.


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## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

Hard drives? Security?

Shove a drill through the centre.....that takes care of the discs.


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## silverstatespecialties (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 23 Dec 2010 10:15 PM 


Sorry, too.... but I did not GIVE AWAY anything... I PAY someone through my municipal taxes (actually in my case it is a bill associated with my water usage) or if I find a recycler, (whether they pay me or I pay them) to RESPONSIBLY dispose of HAZARDOUS materials, I expect them to do so without endangering my fellow earth inhabitants. 
There are materials in computers and electronic toys that are dangerous to ALL life in the concentrations present in the devices. What some of these, so called, "recyclers" are doing is totally unconscionable and irresponsible to YOU and ME as well to the people that are so poor they are willing to destroy their environment while trying to eke out a living using unsafe methods to extract SOME of the materials and dumping the rest on the ground.

By the way... it matters not whether you put some stuff in one waste basket and some in another waste receptacle, it all gets dumped together in the landfill and leaches out into the water YOU drink, and if not, you, then the water your neighbor drinks, whether that neighbor is within sight distance or in the next city, county, state, or country.

Irresponsibility is irresponsibility. Dumping your garbage on someone else is absolutely no different than my dumping my garbage on YOU.





I dunno, I think Mother Earth is a lot more forgiving than we give her credit for. I am all for a nuclear waste repository being placed into service at Yucca Mountain; Nevada could rake in a good haul of federal subsidies as a result.

I guess my contention is simply these folks in foreign countries choosing to do these tasks & pollute their environment, vs. being forced by us to do it.

I think most of us agree that in order to make sure that our recyclables & trash don't end up somewhere objectionable, we take a different course of action...sort of like we are talking past each other, so to say.


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