# To those that are on the fence about battery power vs track power



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

To those newbies that are on the fence on the cost and process of converting to battery power. GO FOR IT!!!! Its so nice to not worry about whether the track is clean, or if my aging rail joiners will conduct power or cut out as the train passes over them. I broke down and decided to start with my 2119d bumblebee mogul from LGB. With the help of a super forum member, he hooked me up with a care package of old Keithco Locolinc gear, along with a second handheld I won on fleabay. My line is only 12'x15', so I wasnt worried about the short range of the radio reception. And when I visit layouts, I like to follow my train so thats not going to be an issue. My system uses 75mhz radio frequency, which is much quieter with most folks going to 2.4ghz. Even my RC cars do not glitch like they did years ago. So to those thinking about it, once you take the leap, you will be glad you did! Mike


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to the Darkside and the "Battery Mafia" Mike!!


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks Gary, still pondering how to squeeze a locolinc reciever and battery into my 2020 Stainz engine and not totaly fill the cab with stuff! I dont like trailing cars for the battery, nor do I have any Euro style cars that I could hide the battery in. For now the Stainz set is stuck on the track powered indoor overhead loop. Mike


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

I would love to learn more.
My biggest reluctance is having to re-wire locos

Is it feasible to power LGB locos with battery via the power plugs on the locos, without further changes. Does having such power go to the rail make only one loco at a time operation the only option. My reluctance is altering my fleet,especially if it is more or less permanent or not easily reversed.

I have seen battery R/C locos-high end - and they seem to operate so smoothly and slowly.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I run all my LGB though the power plugs on the back. A-B-A UP F units, Uintah #50,
and #50 little diesel. Sold the two moguls. I did take off the sliders and brushes.

Don


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, I have done it with a battery car and the plugs in the back if the engine. If you are going run on a track with other engines, battery or track, you will have to isolate the power to the track in the engine. Otherwise you will run the other engines.

Aristo craft engines have a track/battery switch. I wish that was on all engines.

Chuck


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

You can Steve, but the LGB electronics suck up battery power. Now if you invest in a big enough battery, then its a non issue. You just remove the track skates and wheel brushes that supply power from the track and that is all reversable if you ever want to return the engine original condition. I chose to remove the LGB lighting board as it really pulled lots of battery power and I dont run my smoke units. I rewired the feed to the lights as my reciever board has directional lights as a standard feature as well as a "Ditch Light" feed that I will use for another light option eventualy, probably class lights. My friends battery set up is done in a trailing car that plugs into those ports, then each engine has an Aristo Revo reciever in it. In time some of his engines will have onboard battery. Mike


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Be advised that the AC Track/battery switch is not a track OR battery switch.
Rather the pigtails at each end are permanently connected to the internal wiring and the track pick ups are either switched in or removed.
Some AC locos do not actually disconnect the track power on BOTH sides. They are mis-wired internally.
The Track/Battery switch on Bachmann Spectrum locos does select one OR the other.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

thanks for the info-didn't think about the brushes and skates-very clever !!
yes lights and smoke will have to go, or lights will need to go LED (perhaps a small stick of incense in the stack....LOL)


I may try one or two locos-
any recommendations for a battery site, where I can get a nice battery, and rc unit to feed power to the loco-

gosh im actually really excited about trying this, this could make the winter and crap weather a lot more fun-I always get icing-(you know, the track is wet and when the loco passes it turns to ice immediately) and sometimes minor but really annoying continuity issues when its really wet and/or cold for prolonged periods.

perhaps ill try this with one of my electric rack locos and have single lights , or possibly a schoema for starters, or better, maybe the 2063 davenport. Should I chose heavy or light locos?

any suggestions as to battery size , how many I need, type, etc-i know nothing


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I've never been on the fence, .... LOL..
ALWAYS battery!
....and yes....I find locos to behave in a far more real manner on batts...smoother...slower. ..crawl so slow n smooth. Ya can hardly tell they are moving at all....

Good luck!! Have Fun !!

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I was told to stay around 14.4/14.8 volt, battery style and chemistry is up to you. I personaly used 5000mah Nimh RC car batteries in my mogul as thats what I had on hand. Run times estimated in the 4-6 hour range without smoke and with sound/lights. For now I am not running sound. Now I have done a friends DRGW #50 LGB diesel with a simple toggle switch set up for foward/off/reverse with a 7.2vt RC car battery, 5000mah Nimh and it runs for over 6 hours without a recharge and it runs at a nice speed pulling a normal train. My Stainz is the same way but I do plan to find a low profile battery so I can put RC and battery in the cab. I prefer to keep mine all self contained. I am use the old Locolinc system, which is perfectly fine for my needs. Mike


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

It all depends on how you want to run your trains.

If you want to run a bunch of trains on interconnected track simultaneously while just kicking back and letting them do their thing, track power is really the only economical way to go, and certainly the simplest.

To accomplish this on battery power would be _almost_ unheard of. Even many of the accessories (e.g., Rigiduo, sound systems) operate off the track power.


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## Budd (Mar 22, 2008)

toddalin said:


> It all depends on how you want to run your trains.
> 
> If you want to run a bunch of trains on interconnected track simultaneously while just kicking back and letting them do their thing, track power is really the only economical way to go, and certainly the simplest.
> 
> ...


.????? Toddalin, we run 6-8 trains simultaniously on our club track, all on battery power, the track has a double track mainline, seperate yards and a branchline with double crossover junction, we run multiple trains on each mainline at the same time, to wire it for track power could be done but we prefer to simply run trains without the headache of complicated wiring and maintenance.
Rigiduo is a cable car system and sound systems run fine, I can trigger what ever sound effects I desire so I not sure what your point is with those two references, can you elaborate?
Unless you are talking DCC and that is a different ball game that has been covered on other forums etc, I can't agree more with the original poster, do it, you will never regret it.

Wayne


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Budd said:


> .????? Toddalin, we run 6-8 trains simultaniously on our club track, all on battery power, the track has a double track mainline, seperate yards and a branchline with double crossover junction, we run multiple trains on each mainline at the same time,
> so I not sure what your point is, can you elaborate?
> 
> Wayne


 
OK...,

Do your trains encounter a 30 degree crossover, that two trains run through _without any intervention_ and if one train is at the crossing the other train will stop by itself and wait until the other train passes to avoid collision? _Can you put any train, or even any railcar with metal wheels, on the track and have it do this?_

Do your trains pull into the station, slow, stop, throw the turnouts, and let the other train leave, and repeat this process when the other train returns _without any intervention_? Can all of your dozen+ engines accomplish this same feat for just the cost of a magnet?

Can your trains slow and stop at a given point (e.g., diesel tank), wait and restart and accelerate to speed without intervention? Can any of the dozen+ engines do this for just the cost of a magnet?

Can all of your trains run point-to-point along the line without intervention and not even the cost of a magnet?

Can you start/stop all of these trains simultaneously when people arrive and once started, can the trans take care of themselves unattended while you socialize with your guests for hours on end?

And all of this on interconnected track where any train can access any point on the entire railroad. 

Sure there are controls that can go into battery-powered trains that give them _some_ of these capabilities. But that adds up ($$$) over a dozen engines and doesn't allow for other people to bring their trains to run them "in the system." 

As to cable car, sound system, and other automation systems; the point is that these also run off the track power, in conjunction with the trains, so you don't even need a separate power source or wiring, other than to the adjacent track. Again, $$$ adds up.

That's my point.

Like I said, it all depend on how someone wants to run their trains.


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

You can do all that just on dc track power? How?


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

mickey said:


> You can do all that just on dc track power? How?


 
Everything can be done using a readily available reversing unit, the LGB turnout motors, the LGB supplemental switches (that attach to the turnout motors), LGB reed switches, track insulators, and magnets to stick on the engines, if you don't care about deceleration and just let the trains stop and go. LGB details how these operations are done in their various publications, but I actually make my own circuits using 555 timing chips and relays.

Additionally, there are any number of commercial units available that accomplish these goals and will give you deceleration/acceleration. While these cost a bit more, they are still not all that much and one will work for all you engines. IIRC, Kevin Strong did an article on these devises a while back.

I run 7-8 train (three point-to-point) at a time, plus the rigiduo and accessories, using just three trackside Train Engineers (none of which I paid more than $50 for) usually continually without stop from 1:00 - 4:00 pm then do it again the next day.

It's just a matter of setting up the block system properly and using a common ground. Watch for an article in the upcoming _Garden Railways_ Magazine on my control panel.

If you have a specific question, I would be glad to elaborate.


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## Budd (Mar 22, 2008)

toddalin said:


> Everything can be done using a readily available reversing unit, the LGB turnout motors, the LGB supplemental switches (that attach to the turnout motors), LGB reed switches, track insulators, and magnets to stick on the engines, if you don't care about deceleration and just let the trains stop and go. LGB details how these operations are done in their various publications, but I actually make my own circuits using 555 timing chips and relays.
> 
> Additionally, there are any number of commercial units available that accomplish these goals and will give you deceleration/acceleration. While these cost a bit more, they are still not all that much and one will work for all you engines. IIRC, Kevin Strong did an article on these devises a while back.
> 
> ...



So you need more than "just magnets" to run trains?
Horses for courses Tody, I prefer to operate my railway with minnimal complication, and no magnets! 

Wayne


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Minimal complication to me would not be taking an engine apart to install batteries/radio control.
Minimal is to run them as they shipped from the original manufacturer.
Can not get simplier than a stainz and a 1 amp power pack on starter set track.

But I like complicated thus I have DCC track power and gut locos for awesome control such as puffing smoke and remote uncoupling. Works for me.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

As much as a proponent of battery power as I might be, it's got its weaknesses, and automation tops that list. There are ways of doing _basic _automated controls with a battery R/C system. *G Scale Graphics* offers their "Railboss" control system which allows for automatic station stops, point-to-point operation, and can support multiple trains on the same track. I'm not sure how applicable that is to other common automated tasks such as alternating trains out of a siding (combined with throwing switches), protecting diamond crossings, or other complex automation tasks. Such things simply aren't the forte of battery R/C. Maybe in a few generations of products, we'll see a high level of cross-communication between locomotive receivers to allow each of them to know the others' speed and location, but we're a ways off yet.

Automated railroads tend to be very hands-off affairs; the "set-it-and-forget-it" mindset. I've found many folks who gravitate towards battery R/C do so because they're very _hands-on_ with their trains. They want to be able to physically interact with the trains. I think it's a different mindset of the consumer, hence we haven't seen a whole lot of demand for automation capabilities within battery R/C products as yet. 

If you're looking to do automation on your railroad (analog track power), you should check out *RR Concepts *and *Dallee Electronics*. Both of them have an array of products that can do some pretty cool things. If you're running DCC, *DCC BitSwitch* has a wide variety of circuits to add automation. 

Later,

K


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Budd said:


> So you need more than "just magnets" to run trains?
> Horses for courses Tody, I prefer to operate my railway with minnimal complication, and no magnets!
> 
> Wayne


 

Any system that requires a magnet to operate can be modified/redesigned using a track gap (i.e., two insulators), a 555 chip, a relay, and a few cents worth of components, such that any engine or railcar with metal wheels will operate the device without the need for the magnet. This is the basis for the Tortoise Bump Accident Sentinel System (Bump A.S.S.) that I devised years ago to protect my diamond crossing.

Anyone who has watched my diamond crossing in action has stood there wide eyed in astonishment when the trains look like they will collide, but one inevitably stops in time. Gets them every time!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, I'm glad that you are happy with your choice of battery power.

I am just as pleased with my DC analog powered layout. I have been using DC analog track power for over 30 years, 10 or so in Colorado and 20+ here in Virginia. If you live under trees, like I have, in both Colorado and Virginia, it is necessary to clear the track of twigs, sticks, leaves and acorns before running. I can clear the track with my pole sander and polish it at the same time. No extra effort, unless I have to stoop down to pick up something to big to sweep aside. The clearing of the track has to be done whether you are using track power, battery, or live steam. I guess that if there are no plants overhanging your layout you don't need to clear the track.

My experience in the hobby is that there is no one power source that will please everyone. They all have pluses and minuses. 

I have several battery/RC engines. I rarely run them at home, as they seem to me to be a little more trouble. I have them so that I can run them on layouts that don't have track power.

After having been in the hobby for as long as I have, I couldn't afford to convert all of my engines to battery. I have probably averaged an engine a year over that duration. It could be a little higher, I don't really want to know how many I really have. It's sort of like my fly rod collection, the less I know the absolute numbers, the better. 

I have remote control on my current layout. I use a Bridgewerks UR-15 to remotely control speed and direction. I only run one train at a time. If it is double or triple headed, I use matched engines. All of my switches are manual. I gave up on automatic and powered switches when the mechanism filled with ants, earwigs, mud and the iron magnet rusted. I have two passing sidings, so I can have up to three trains out on the layout at one time. Two parked and one running.

I also have a automatic Point-to-Point track that brings coal down to my tipple. 

Chuck


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

My layout is very hands off, but is also battery RC. Once I get the speed set, I can switch off the transmitter and the engine will remain at that speed unless there is a derailment, batteries die or I turn my transmitter back on and command it to do something. Hands on RC would be switching a yard or industries or running a side rod live steamer on a layout that is less than perfectly flat. And yes, its what the operator wants or desires of his trains, as to which control system is best. For me its battery RC, both on my LGB and my Live Steam. No track cleaning required other than debris removal such as leaves, twigs or overgrowth. Mike


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