# Oiling axles?



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

does anyone know where I can buy some tube or bottle of plastic friendly oil with a long thin tube on it for oiling the roller bearing 100 ton hoppers?
I'd like to just place a drop from the outside while they are on the track.
thanks
Does that make since?


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I have a small tube, the same as the old LGB container.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I use one from the hardware store. Has a long tube you can pull out, oil, then push it back in. 'Zoom Spout' it is called.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Jerry, 
Are you sure it's safe for plastics? It's made for cooler motors and bearings, doesn't say anywhere on the label that it is safe for plastic. Yep am holding a bottle right now. 


John


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 13 Mar 2011 09:35 AM 
I use one from the hardware store. Has a long tube you can pull out, oil, then push it back in. 'Zoom Spout' it is called. 

_Me too. I found some 'turbine oil' (the stuff you want to use) in a plastic container with a pull-out spout. Like this:_


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter 
thats like what I'm looking for. 
In the past I used Q-tip with white grease and it takes for ever to do. 

I guess its plastic safe if its in plastic???


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess its plastic safe if its in plastic??? 

Seems like a reasonable assumption. I got something slightly different from my local Ace Hardware. I didn't check the 'plastic' issue, but I've been using it for years and nothing has melted yet!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, just because something is in a plastic container, it does not guarantee the oil is plastic safe, see below:






I like the oilers like the one in the far left, the really thin needle will let you get in tight places and not get oil all over the outside, since I understand you want to oil them from the outside) These are from Rockler. You might be able to get some surplus hypodermics with the tips filed flat.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

the really thin needle will let you get in tight places 
I have two of those as well - one came from the local hobby store and I think the other came from Bachmann. They don't help with oiling when the train is on the track, which was Marty's initial plan.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

When I lube my axle shafts I use Labelle lightweight oil. It says on the label it is plastic safe and I've had no problems with it. I got it at my local hobby store before he went out of business. I belive Labelle has a wide variety of oils that are plastic compatible.

Ed


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

Bachmann has oil in bottles with long metal stems. Works really well! 
Ron


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

This is what I call a good topic. not knocking companies, but giving info to help. 
I will liook up both. 
Maybe Kidmans or RLD is watching this thread. 
the 100 ton hoppers makes it easy to lube from outside verse other types.
I was thinking of adding ballbearings to the cars, but thats over $700 bucks

I may have jumped the gun, but I ordered from the place Ed said.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I also like Hob-E--Lube and the Aero-Car lubricants. 

Labelle was pretty much the originator of the plastic compatible lubes. 

I do have a page on lubrication: *http://www.elmassian.com...trong>** 

Regards, Greg*


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Like Ed use Labelle, up till my local dealer ran out of it last year,

I found this stuff on Ebay and its been working great and and has 

a nice pentip. only $5.95

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPERIOR-plasti...520009?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item35a9c4e589


Dont use the Aristo stuff, it melts plastic.

Found that out a couple of years ago on a Pr

of F-3s


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

I simply use castor oil. 

I use it in the petrol of my motorcycle and locomotive plus the bearing for my record player. 

regards 

ralph


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Record Player? 

Raplh you're showing your age. 

You maybe older than dirt like JJ 

Besides, isn't Castor Oil what they made kids take back in the 20s?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By rlvette on 13 Mar 2011 01:16 PM 
Record Player? 

Raplh you're showing your age. 

You maybe older than dirt like JJ 

Besides, isn't Castor Oil what they made kids take back in the 20s? 

Castor Oil is the stuff that grocery stores have not discovered or thier shopping carts wouldl track better.









Sad thing is they sell it in the same store.









JJ 


PS I did a massive oiling of my rolling stock at Marty's on year and strange Phenominon broke out. Everybody following me up grade lost traction. It was strange.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ralph, do you mean Castrol, a brand of motor oil (which no longer contains castor oil), or castor oil, from the castor bean plant? 

some stuff about using castor oil as a lubricant: (and I used to race 2 stroke motorcycles and used it in my gas oil mix) 

Vegetable oils, due to their good lubricity and biodegradability are attractive alternatives to petroleum-derived lubricants, but oxidative stability and low temperature performance limit their widespread use. 

Castor oil has better low temperature viscosity properties and high temperature lubrication than most vegetable oils, making it useful as a lubricant in jet, diesel, and race car engines. 

However, castor oil tends to form gums in a short time, and its use is therefore restricted to engines that are regularly rebuilt, such as race engines. 

The lubricants company Castrol took its name from castor oil. 

Regards, Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

or castor oil, from the castor bean plant 
When I was growing up, we were supplied that stuff to drink by the UK gov!


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## Ward H (Jan 5, 2008)

Like Ed, I use Labelle oils. 
Labelle Plastic Compatible Light (#108) or Medium (#107) Oil, available from Walthers. Needle tube spouts make it easy to add one drop and get to bearing.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I just did a google of Zoom Spout oil and can only tell you that it is a Petroleum Hydrocarbon. 
No where did it say it was safe for plastics. 
Just because it's packaged in one type of plastic, does not mean it's safe for all plastics. 
I'd suggest caution with this one. 

John


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Rivette: 

I am the proud owner of a Dunlop SystemDek 3 made in 1984. It has been heavily modified by using "Origin Live" products in the meantime. It is insured for £2,800... (It costs £342.13p to replace the stylus). My power amp is in the shop for its 5 yearly re-valve and service -I have been warned about the cost already!!! 

Greg: 

I mean the oil from the Castor bean plant. I have several *litres* of it. It fills the oil reservoir of my Shorrock C75B and goes into the petrol tank of my Vincent HRD Rapide. 

Pete: 

My grandfather was also given to consuming caster oil as supplied by HM Govt. but in his case it was due to the amount of it being thrown out the engine of his SPAD fighter during WW1. There is reason why early aviators wore scarves over their mouths.... 

regards 

ralph


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## david bunn (Jan 4, 2008)

Ralph
You lucky devil having a Rapide lurking in your garage,I assume you are adding the castor oil as an upper cylinder lubricant?
As an aside when I was ,much,younger I went to school in Stevenage and part of the outbuildings were previously used by Vincent with workshop diagrams still on the walls.Over the road was George Browns shop, renowned tuner of all things Vincent where we used to spend lunchtimes drooling over the machinery.
Regards
David


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting about the Shorrock C75B supercharger, but since others reading this might not be so sophisticated, castor bean oil will gum up and unless you want to regularly wash out all your model train journals and re-oil, I submit that organic castor bean oil has no useful, and certainly no superior application in model railroading.

Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

My father told me the Vincent was mine when I was big enough to "kick it over". With the aid of my two eldest sisters (holding the handle bars) I leapt off the saddle onto the starter. I fired it -but it "kicked back" and I broke my leg. I was 12. Matthew will *not* be able to profit from the same mistake made by his grandfather.... Just to rub salt into your wounds -it has the Egli frame, 30mm Dell'Ortos and the four leading shoe Grimaldi brakes. They WILL stop you from over the ton to a standstill -but only the *ONCE!!!* 

regards 

ralph


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote: 
"castor bean oil will gum up and unless you want to regularly wash out all your model train journals and re-oil, I submit that organic castor bean oil has no useful, and certainly no superior application in model railroading." 
Unquote: 

I do -it is called *maintenance*... 

I have been using Castor Oil for my model loco and rolling stock from "00" to "3" for the past 46 years. It works for me. 

regards 

ralph


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, well, you are definitely an exception there! I meet very few people that would clean up old oil first. So, to really help bound this, what intervals of replacement do you target, and what is your opinion of the maximum time before it gums up? 

Now, I realize that this must also be tempered by environment, but I'm genuinely interested. I take it your oil is pretty highly refined, not like the lesser quality stuff that used to be sold to mix with my fuel for my 2 strokes I used to race. 

Do you actually "wash out" the old lubricant, or just flood it with new? 

Greg


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Nick,
I'm also using Labelle and so far it seems to be doing a good job. I like the thin needle nose. It gets into tight places very easy. 

Mark
*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/*


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

The oil in the record deck (10ml) I change on an annual basis -I also replace the belt re-talc it and wax the sub platter with beeswax. There is a small lamp to keep the cartridge warm. 

Loco bearings are cleaned with spray engine cleaner and then re-oiled on a seasonal basis. (As a boy I used to squirt turpentine spirit -but I am getting lazy as I get older.) 
Wagon and coaching stock bearings are cleaned again with spray engine cleaner and then re-oiled on a bi-annual basis 

Ricinoleic acid (Castor Oil) is quite stable at the UK environment -cool and wet. The "gumming" that you refer to are oxydation by products. The rule is simple -don't let the air get to your oil. 

Matthew is now the proud owner of my "hand me down" Hornby, Dublo and Wrenn locos and rolling stock. Some of them date from the early 50's, the magnets on a few of them need replacing 
for the motors to function in a reliable manner -but they all run smoothly. 

I did try "Motil 1" in "Gertude" and it is the only time she has blown a bottom end bearing. I change the oil in her every 5,000 miles. 

As I said, "it works for me". 

regards 

ralph


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Marty,

I have been using Silcone spray lubricant made by permatex. You can use this on everything, its safe for plastic, rubber, metal, metal surfaces like saw table tops. I have used it on gear boxes, wheels, side rods all with good results. The can comes with a thin spray tube that fits into the spray nozel to get into tight places so you might be able to do your wheels with the cars on the track. Check it out.

Chuckger


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ralph, is it safe to assume that if you use a spray engine cleaner in the loco bearings, that there's no plastic close by? 

I sort of assumed this thread was about rolling stock, specifically the simulated roller bearings on Aristo freight cars. 

The spray engine cleaner would attach the plastic sideframes in that application. 

Chuck, I have used various spray silicon sprays, and many of them have a solvent as a carrier that can attack plastic. None of them seem to tell you this information. I've stop using it because of this and because it really seems to be just a light film, not something that "stays in" bearings and pivoting pins. My advice here is to test your product out on plastic (which you seem to have done) before using on your trains. 


Regards, Greg


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Back when I was an RC car repair guy at a hobby shop I used a manufacturers lubricating product on their product and watched as the plastic crazed and became instantly brittle. In other instances it took days or weeks before that happened BUT in every case it happened. The result was that I replaced a LOT of plastic pieces at my time and cost and used a different lubricant from then on. I was NOT very impressed with said manufacturer at the time. 

Chas


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Normally "lubricating threads" have a lot of input, and some people have "magic stuff" that works for them, but not clearly plastic compatible. 

The typical "end point" seems to be, even though there might be really cheap alternatives, why take a chance when you use so little, use one of the "mainstream" lubes that is really, for sure, safe around plastic. 

While the diversity of solutions is entertaining, when I give advice and opinions, I look at what is the BEST and SAFEST solution/recommendation I can give that will benefit the largest number of people. I also consider less experienced people, who are often overwhelmed by choices, or might miss the caveats with certain products. 

It's like track... for track power, brass and aluminum can work fine for many people, but when someone wants a guarantee of trouble free operation, no cleaning, etc. I always recommend stainless steel... 

I only recommend Labelle, Hob-E-Lube, and Aero-car lubricants, I KNOW they will work anywhere. 

Regards, Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

quote: 

"Ralph, is it safe to assume that if you use a spray engine cleaner in the loco bearings, that there's no plastic close by? " 

unquote: 










If you look here then you have choice of plastics -The BLACK sprockets are gear grade NYLON, RED is Nylon 66, the WHITE is Hostaform, and the CLEAR is PolyCarbonate. 
The ball races are at the end of each gear axle and the main axles sit in roller races with ball races at the hornblocks as well. 
Both the races and the gears are oiled using Castor Oil which is cleaned off and re-applied during maintenance -as is the high speed steel chain drive and sprockets. 

So -yes there *is* a lot of plastic around.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, all I can say Ralph is that you must know a great deal about solvents to know one that will clean out your oil but not attack all those different plastics. 

There's no doubt you are an incredibly smart guy. 

But is your recommendation one that is suitable for the masses? I would say not. Spray engine cleaner here can be anything from a solvent to a spray mixture of lye. 

I have about 20 solvents in my garage, pretty much arranged from mild to wild, and am somewhat proficient in their use, but I would not be a fearless as to try what you are doing. 


More power to you... looks like a nice mechanism... always like seeing what you are building...

Regards, Greg


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Well here in the UK "solvents" are strictly controlled. The days of lowering an oily engine block into a "trike tank" are long gone. The engine degreasers I use are based on emulsifiers rather than solvents and use limonene and C9 or C12 cycloalkenes in an aqueous media. Spray on, tickle it with a brush -and wash off with water, in the case of my locos and rolling stock wipe off with cotton waste. 

As I said before -it works for me. 

regards 

ralph


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

train_Li sells a clear oil pen like the LGB red oiler. Long thin oiler that reaches the axles on most engines.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By ralphbrades on 16 Mar 2011 12:11 AM 
Well here in the UK "solvents" are strictly controlled. The days of lowering an oily engine block into a "trike tank" are long gone. The engine degreasers I use are based on emulsifiers rather than solvents and use limonene and C9 or C12 cycloalkenes in an aqueous media. Spray on, tickle it with a brush -and wash off with water, in the case of my locos and rolling stock wipe off with cotton waste. 

As I said before -it works for me. 

regards 

ralph 
If solvents are so tightly controled, How are the cleaners that are avaiable working?

A lot of the stuff here in the USA that are suppose to be enviormentaly safe don't clean worth a dang.

A lot of the solvents we use to use on the priting presses that work real welll have been outlawed (mostly in Calafornia) What is substatuted don't work very well 

If California outlaws a solvent the companies don't want to make two solvents so the just drop the solvent for the rest of the country.

JJ


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## rookie (Aug 30, 2010)

Marty 

Take a look at the following web site, they sell a curved spout tip syringe that appears it might help with your situation. 
I been looking for a small syringe for dispensing glue and today I purchased the Monoject #412 Curved Tip Syringe (at a grand price of $1.85). 
They have a description their web site. 

http://www.ngineering.com/other_cool_tools.htm


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

thanks


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I really like the long thin tube on the labelle oiler. Let's me put just a tiny drop right where I want it.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

JJ, 

Let me apologise for the delay in answering your question. Here in the Uk we have been using non-solvent based engine cleaners for years. The answer is that they do work very well -but the techniques are a little different to what you might be used to. "Gertrude" has to be cleaned with Jizer and then sprayed with water -a couple of times to get rid of the "burnt on" grease etc -her cast iron block is rather rough in places... "Pearl" simply needs a once over and she sparkles -as her Aluminium engine and turbo housings are so much more smoother. You simply have to work the Jizer and the grease into a lather with a scrubbing brush and then wash it off. A "trike tank" would have simply dripped the grease and oil off of the block. By "trike tank" I mean Tri Chloro Ethylene heated by electrical elements and the trike condenses on the block washing the much off with it. I will admit to not seeing one in years!!! 

regards 

ralph


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