# Jobs - OT/NT



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Yesterday, the Manufacturing Mgr. at the company I work for put an ad in Craig's List for a couple of job openings. Within *two hours* we had applicants stacked up *15 deep* in the lobby with more streaming in as I walked through. Both conference rooms were full of people filling out applications. Within *two hours*... I was amazed!!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

That's how bad it is! The media is trying to put the best spin on it but the truth is that we are still in a downward spiral. The repercussions of all of this deficit spending have yet to kick in. The tax breaks are set to expire next year and the current leaders of the Congress have no intention of changing that! In fact, they are looking to slap us down with even greater taxation in order to "be responsible about our debt" (!!) It's no wonder that businesses are tightening their belts! They are looking to cut overhead and the easiest and fastest way to do that is to lay off workers. Consumer confidence is waay down! They're worried about their futures so they aren't spending! No spending = no economic upturn. No economic upturn means no new employment (in significant numbers) which means _millions_ of skilled Americans are out of work! 
Here's a sobering thought: I was substitute teaching at one of our local High Schools this week and two Army recruiters were giving a presentation to our class. They told the kids that a High School diploma no longer qualifies you to get into the Army! They had everybody they needed! You'd need at least a Bachelor's Degree! In fact, they hadn't accepted anybody _for three months!!_ When the Army doesn't need people you _know _the economy must be bad!!!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

My daughter was laid off by Bof A last April and still hasn't found a job. She can't move (without taking a big loss) because her home mortgage is underwater. They keep extending unemployment benefots and she took in a flatmate so she is surviving financially. But I wonder who will employ her after a year of inactivity? Will she get enough $$ to even pay the mortgage? We at least persuaded her to go back to college and get some credits towards a CPA - might help offset the negatives of being out of work so long. 

Our son is in the same boat, though his living expenses are vastly lower as he's been a post-grad student for years. But he finally graduated - Dr Thornton to you - and can't get a job. Nobody is hiring. Again, he's lucky to have a friend who lets him stay weekends in comparative luxury compared with his student house.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

they are looking to slap us down with even greater taxation in order to "be responsible about our debt 
Steve, 

I liiked your points, but you didn't explain how to avoid the situation. Someone has to pay the debt off, and that means taxpayers earning a decent living (even if it doesn't feel decent these days!) Or should we have avoided the debt by letting the economy tank and not pay (e.g.) unemployment benefits so those who lost their jobs end up losing their homes and living in poverty? [See previous post about my daughter.] 

Ok, maybe the recession wouldn't have happened if the financial crisis had been avoided, but remember that it was the anti-big-government, anti-regulation anti-taxation conservatives - you know who you are - who repealed the banking laws and refused to regulate the financial markets. 

There will always be greedy, unscrupulous people trying to steal your money for their gain. Don't we have government to stop their worst excesses? Or is that the local Sheriff's job?


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

The gumment is STILL hiring-something like $120.000 per year average salary! THIS is the only segment of the economy expanding.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't start this thread to go political with it. Let's try and keep partisanship and blame manship out of it. 

Pete, I will say I completely disagree with your statement. The housing bubble collapse which started this whole meltdown happened (at least in part) because banks were forced to relax their standards and make loans to lower income people who couldn't afford them under threat of Federal prosecution. Regulation of Freddie and Fanny were proposed more than once, but said proposals never got out of Committee. At the very least, there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides of the aisle.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

My wife was laid off from Kodak FOUR YEARS ago.. 
still has not found full time permanant work.. 
only part time temp jobs.. 
she has applied to quite literally hundreds of jobs.. 
many were good jobs, but there were 100 people more qualified than her.. 

there are "good jobs" out there...but the odds of actually getting one are about zero.. 


Scot


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Gary, 

The Government is hiring, true. However, they are hiring to replace contracted employees who DO make $120,000.00 a year. I can assure you that I (nor those I know who have been hired)do not make near $120,000.00 per year and I came into the Government with 30 YEARS of manufacturing and purchasing experience and I am doing the same work the contracted employees are/where. That said, I'm thankful to have a job after 7+ months of unemployment after my company sent work to CHINA. 

So, yes, Government is hiring to replace contract workers who are not Government employees. And by the way, the people I see do an honest days work for our less than $120,000 per year. 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

To Dwight's original post: If you have a job it doesn't look so bad, but if your on the outside looking in.. not so. I went to Career Builders, and I looked under General Labor within 30 miles of Charlotte NC for jobs posted in the last 3 days.. there were SIX, yes 6 thats the least amount I have ever seen !!! Until the folks in Washington feel the PAIN, nothing will change.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I am very fortunate in that the company I work for is going gangbusters! I was, in fact, talking to the Asst. Gen. Mgr this morning about just why that is. He said in part, it's because the slumping Dollar is making it far less competitive to buy a similar product made offshore, and making our locally produced product (custom transformers, power supplies, and line filters) attractive not only in competitive pricing, but also from the standpoint that we can deliver product much more rapidly. In today's world of "just in time" inventory management and purchasing policies, that's a big plus for us.


I just hope things hold out for another 2 years, 10 months, and 354 days when I'm ready to fly the coup!


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm in complete agreement with Pete - the primary reason we're in this mess is not an excess of regulation, but an utter dearth of it (or at least an utter dearth in the financial sector).


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 24 Feb 2010 10:35 AM 






I just hope things hold out for another 2 years, 10 months, and 354 days when I'm ready to fly the coup!









Boy, there is some calculus in that. When is the last day?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 24 Feb 2010 10:52 AM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 24 Feb 2010 10:35 AM 






I just hope things hold out for another 2 years, 10 months, and 354 days when I'm ready to fly the coup!









Boy, there is some calculus in that. When is the last day? 

HOL' ON THERE, BOBALOUIE!

"2 years" = 24 months

Plus

"10 months" = 34 months

Plus

"354 days" = hmmmm.... 354 days = 11 months and about 10 days...

Thus

You have 45 months, 10 days... or 3 Years, 9 months and 10 days...

Right?


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

My wife is retiring, this June, after 42 years as a math teacher in high school. She still has 2 years to go til age 65 retirement, but she is retiring NOW because the school district is looking for MAJOR cuts in teacher salaries across the board. Funny thing though....Glendale Schools Superindent is STILL pulling down a 300K/year salary and great benes. Where are HIS cuts?!! The TOP never feels the pain....only the bottom!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I just hope things hold out for another 2 years, 10 months, and 354 days when I'm ready to fly the coup! 
Dwight, if you're attempting a coup, it's probably best not to advertise right down to the day when it will happen.  

BTW, government and military pay grades and their respective dollar amounts are available online. You've got to be pretty high up in the food chain to be making $120K off the back of the taxpayer. The base pay chart doesn't crack that level until the last few steps of the highest pay grade. There are adjustments, but you're still looking at the top three pay grades at the most. Not a lot of people working in government at those upper pay grades. Your local mail carrier or park ranger sure aren't among them. 

The way I see it, the problem lies in spending other people's money. It doesn't matter who's doing the spending. The banks may have loaned money to people who probably shouldn't have been getting a loan, but they did so because they could then turn and sell that loan to an investment bank, divesting themselves completely of any risk in making the loan in the first place. In government, the "current" administration will spend money like there's no tomorrow, because in 4 - 8 years, there _is_ no tomorrow. It becomes "the next" administration's problem. There's no accountability down the road for any of these financial decisions. Where's the incentive to care what happens? 

Later, 

K


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry, but the truth as I see it, the responsibility and blame, rests squarely on the shoulders of every single individual that resides in this country, and quite frankly I'm a bit tired of everybody trying to run away from that image they don't like seeing in the mirror.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight,

That is great news about your company! Hopefully, the trend you see will continue. To help folks around here find employment, the local newspaper prints "situations wanted" in the Sunday Employment classified section for free. Many of the public works projects around here have gotten a lot of their funding and are moving forward. Specific project is the Amtrak Keystone corridor. They are planning to improve speeds between Harrisburg and Philadelphia to 125 mph (from 110), with total transit time of about 1 hour. That's 30 minutes faster than current travel time (to be quite honest, I am not sure how they are cutting an hour off the time, but somehow they are. Perhaps there are planned limited trains, whereas all exept one are currently locals). A big part of that is the high level platforms at several whistle stops along with elimination of 3 road crossings. All of that costs big bucks, but it makes travel to and from more enjoyable and cheap. 


Mark


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete,
In answer to your question, I don't have an answer! Congress raised the debt ceiling again by 1.4 trillion dollars (or was it 1.2 trillion? Oh well, a decimal point here or there doesn't really matter!) It's a viscious "Catch 22" with the banks not lending money because of the economy not rebounding and purchasing of new goods not going up due to unemployment remaining stagnant or slightly worse (yes, it IS worse because the "official" figures don't take into account those people that have given up and are not actively looking!) while businesses won't begin hiring because the economy is still stagnant! Yes, Wall Street is showing signs of recovery but Main Street is still taking it up the rear! 
One thing I will say: you can't spend your way out of a recession! We ALL will have to tighten our belts and certain pet projects will just have to be postponed! It's that way with families. I better not go out and blow $2,500 on a live steam engine just because I want it when there are bills to pay! My wife would divorce me! Likewise, our local city council needs to weigh the benefit vs cost of all this new controversial artwork that they want to spend when we aren't able to balance the budget for our basic infrastructure!! At the State level, our Constitution requires us to balance the budget each year! This has proven to be a major source of controversy at our statehouse. Our public school districts are banding together to try and sue the state for more money! Some question the wisdom of spending taxpayer funds to sue the state for _more_ funds! Everybody wants their piece of the pie and they will be _d*mned _if anybody is going to take it from them!! The there's our Federal Government.......(*sigh) I'm not going there! Washington doesn't know how to quit spending!!
Here's one last disturbing thought: when you print money without any backing and you essentially double what you have printed, what is the logical result of the value of that paper? I have a piece of paper that says I have $100. I print another just like it. Now, do I have $200? The paper says I do but who will actually give me $200 worth of merchandise for those two bills? If the merchant realizes what I have done he will (understandably) not want to give me as much merchandise for $100 as he would have before I printed new money! That's called inflation. The average person sees this as "prices rising." What worries me is that hyper-inflation could occur if this gets out of control! All of a sudden your life savings isn't worth enough to buy a loaf of bread! That's what's scaring me! I'm not sure that those yahoos in Washington realize just how dangerous unrestricted printing of money can really be! I pray I'm completely off base...


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Where I'm at, even now, there are still jobs available...but most of them are a dollar or so above minimum wage at best. 

The daughter, in an effort to move out of minimum wage world, signed up for a 'Certified Nursing Assistant' class to go with her high school classes. That and a couple other little deals (supposedly) sets her up for 'in demand' $15+ an hour jobs. Thing is, of the fifty odd kids in her graduating class, about fifteen of them have the same idea. So...she thought about it abit, and this current semester, she went and signed up for a 'Criminal Justice' type program as well, which, with a few college credits, can supposedly lead to a bottom level position in a legal office. At least ten of her classmates had that same bright idea. Me thinks the real estate bubble that blew up a couple years ago is far from being the only bubble in town. 

Also been coming across links and posts on other boards for some time now going on and on about Treasuries and 401K(s). 

Seems that the last auction of long term T-Bills would be most politely described as a 'catastrophic' failure because the normal foreign buyers basically boycotted it. Rumors have also been percolating for a while that much of what little success there has been with these auctions over the past six or eight months has been because of what amounts to accounting tricks. 

Possibly connected with this are some other links and posts concering some proposed regulatory changes by Treasury to 401Ks. Essentially, they become annuities (sp?). 401K fund managers, would, under these rule changes, be 'encouraged' to (heavily) invest in T-Bills, especially the ones that are doing particularly poorly. There were multiple accusations that this amounts to an attempt by the government to seize private retirement accounts. 

The recent hike in interest rates by the Fed might or might not have a significant long term effect here. 

If *something* doesn't have a significant long term stable positive effect on this within the next couple of years, then we in the US might get to experience firsthand what it is like to live on a true government austerity budget.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

SteveC, your post sound like you feel untouchable by the economy.. great for you if this is the case. But remember when your neighbors unemployment runs out your pet may become his next meal... 
I take responsibility for that which I am responsible, the blame for what I've done wrong and right what I can, and learn from what I can not, The only thing I don't like when I look in the mirror is I keep getting older, but the government's going to fix that for me!..... they will probably take my mirror....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

For one thing now days when applying for a govt job the grade step can be negotiated and you could be hired at the 120 grand a year if you have the right qualifications. I know one thing is that if I was out of a job I sure am not that proud that I can not stupe to take a job paying just above minimum wage. At least its a pay check and I'm not getting hand outs. I could rant on about this subject but I rest it. Later RJD


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff

Just exactly where do you think I excluded myself from what I said?

Regardless of how large or small a part each of us played in what has taken place, none of it could have happened without us letting it happen.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Feb 2010 11:06 AM 
Posted By xo18thfa on 24 Feb 2010 10:52 AM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 24 Feb 2010 10:35 AM 






I just hope things hold out for another 2 years, 10 months, and 354 days when I'm ready to fly the coup!









Boy, there is some calculus in that. When is the last day? 

HOL' ON THERE, BOBALOUIE!

"2 years" = 24 months

Plus

"10 months" = 34 months

Plus

"354 days" = hmmmm.... 354 days = 11 months and about 10 days...

Thus

You have 45 months, 10 days... or 3 Years, 9 months and 10 days...

Right?



Makes my hair hurt and teeth itch. All I know is that tomorrow is either Thursday or Monday, because it's trash day, I think.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By gary Armitstead on 24 Feb 2010 11:12 AM 
My wife is retiring, this June, after 42 years as a math teacher in high school. She still has 2 years to go til age 65 retirement, but she is retiring NOW because the school district is looking for MAJOR cuts in teacher salaries across the board. Funny thing though....Glendale Schools Superindent is STILL pulling down a 300K/year salary and great benes. Where are HIS cuts?!! The TOP never feels the pain....only the bottom! 
Give your wife a big thanks for me. There are lot of folks out there who have better lives because of her efforts.

Your truly.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I was talking with a firm that had six light mfg openings and 200+ applicants. Most overqualified. 

Things are getting better, MUCH better than a year ago, many mfgrs. I am talking with now are working OT, which is the step before hiring.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't start this thread to go political with it 
Oops - sorry!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Feb 2010 11:06 AM 
Posted By xo18thfa on 24 Feb 2010 10:52 AM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 24 Feb 2010 10:35 AM 






I just hope things hold out for another 2 years, 10 months, and 354 days when I'm ready to fly the coup!









Boy, there is some calculus in that. When is the last day? 

HOL' ON THERE, BOBALOUIE!

"2 years" = 24 months

Plus

"10 months" = 34 months

Plus

"354 days" = hmmmm.... 354 days = 11 months and about 10 days...

Thus

You have 45 months, 10 days... or 3 Years, 9 months and 10 days...

Right?

You're right!







That should have been 3 years, 10 months, and 17 days (I think)! 
Boy, there is some calculus in that. When is the last day?Jan 13, 2013







This March 20th will make 40 years I've worked for this company - rather rare these days, especially in Silicone Valley. I started in manufacturing at 19 years old earning $2.00/hr. My take-home pay was around $45.00/week! hehehe It was enough to allow me to buy a used car, feed myself, and share rent with a buddy.









That is great news about your company! Hopefully, the trend you see will continue.I hear ya Mark. We slowed down as well. In Jan of last year, all the manufacturing people went on Workshare (a State program where you work 4 days a week and draw unemployment on the 5th day). I and the other "staff" people didn't have to participate in that program this time around, though I've had to do it a few times during past recessions. Starting last Oct, things picked up and manufacturing has been working 10 hour days plus Saturdays pretty much ever since. We've also hired a few extra bodies, most being previous employees we'd been forced to lay off.

More people were streaming in today. I'm told some of the applicants are holders of Bachelors degrees, with one or two Masters and even one PhD applying for a minimal (not minimum) wage manufacturing starting position. Pretty sad! In addition to being glad my own position is relatively secure at the moment, I'm glad we can supply some jobs to a few of those in need of one. I think it's a great company to work for (obviously). We have many people who have been there over 20 years, including almost all of the "staff" and many in manufacturing. Not that many "blue collar" jobs left anymore (relatively speaking).


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

You're right! That should have been 3 years, 10 months, and 17 days! 

At which point you get told your money is unavailable because it was already claimed for a bonus payout by AIG.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

At which point you get told your money is unavailable because it was already claimed for a bonus payout by AIG.Not likely!







However, it may not be worth nearly as much.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight,

I just turned 33. So.... counting down to retirement is not even on my list. Besides, I am having a lot of fun in my current job (even if the current market is in a holding pattern). Looking to my mom's grandparents, both worked until they were 90. Not because they had to, but because they wanted to. My dad has been 'retired' since about 1998, but has had several careers since then. His most recent development has been to start a non-profit helping homeless people. So, I don't think that I'll retire, even if I can. I think I'd go nuts. Err..nuttier. 



My little sister had a bit of difficulty getting a job in Hawaii (she's got a BS in Electrical Engineering, MS in Optical Engineering and an MBA from Harvard). In many cases, she was way overqualified, but with her husband in the Navy, she didn't have the choice to move to DC or somewhere where there were more lucrative offers. She did get a job with a firm and it turns out she will get to work from home for their tour in Japan starting next month. She got pretty lucky with that deal. 



Also, it appears that Craig's List is a good place to look for work, doesn't it?


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark,


I have the opposite story. My dad worked every day of his life. I can't remember him ever taking vacation time or even calling in sick (though I'm sure he must have done both at some point). He retired early at 62, and died two months before his 64th birthday. The last ten months of his life he was partially disabled by a heart attack he suffered around 63.


That was thirty years ago now, but I still miss him. He was an avid train buff, and he would have loved the live steam I'm now running.


The lesson I took away from that one is to retire as soon as possible and enjoy life, as one never knows how long one has or when life will be taken away. Speaking for myself, I have waaaaayyyyy too many hobbies and creative pursuits to ever get bored, and I have never identified myself by my job. I will miss the social interaction, but I won't miss working one iota... too much else to do.







Besides, I want ot be able to do stuff like drive to Marty's Thingie, drive to Diamondhead, drive to the AZ Live Steamers meet, etc.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, 

I agree with retiring as young as possible. I retired at 59 (due to eye problems...not a good thing when you are a die sinker). But I think it will probably add years to my life just getting away from the stress. Like I've said to you before...way too many hobbies!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Gentlemen, I had expected this recession a long time ago. It is 4 years later than I had expected. When I bought my house and land I went in as cheap as I could. When Komori let me go last Nov after 25 years the first few days I was in mass panic. Now that I opened my own business I am treading water. I am making my house payment and paying my utilities. There is some left over to play with. I will have to see how long this lasts.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

retire as soon as possible and enjoy life 
_I think I spent too much time enjoying life and not working hard enough._ 

Last year the wife heard me tell someone I was semi-retired (I'm an ex-data-network-designer laid of after the tech bust, turned webmaster and real-estate marketer.) She said I could tell folk I was 'retired' now that I'm over 60. I was semi-retired for 9 years, and always felt guilty if I did some train thing during working hours. Not any more!! There are so many train projects and techniques I have to learn. . . Now if only I could rent a decent workshop and buy some real tools. 

The wife is crossing off the months until her retirement in 2011. Then I'm in trouble - no more train money!


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight,

I should have added that my grandfather ran a cider mill until all my aunts and uncles wanted to retire. He sold the business, retired, and passed away within the next year. He did take extended vacations in February and June, but he loved his cider mill and the people that were his patrons. So, in a way, the cider mill was his hobby. 

I guess I have too far to go and too many responsibilites to think about retiring!! I am excited that we've only got 23 more years on our mortgage. Luckily, our housing market didn't have a bubble, so I am actually ahead with this house. 

Working remotely, I guess this is what semi-retirement is like. I make my hours, and still get all my work done!

Mark


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

My mother and father took early retirement when offered by Owens Il glass plant in Fairmont WV as the plant was soon to shut down. My Father was 57 and my mother was 56 at the time. They were offered full retirement with a Social Security suppliment until they were old enough to receive SS. That was a great deal and really hard to pass up. Those first 10 years of retirement versus working till they were 65 or so was really great for them as they were able to travel the US and do most anything they wanted because they had good health and enough money to enjoy their retirement. 

As for me, I've been unable to secure a job for over 15 months. My wife has been out of work since July of 2008. Here in Florida, our house value has nose dived to well under what we paid for it even though we paid $50,000 less than market value at the time. So far the stimulas plans for helping home owners keep their houses has done nothing to help us as we have no jobs and the bank won't talk to us unless we have jobs. 

So, as far as retirement is concerned, with no rich releatives to bank on, I expect to work till the day I die. That is, IF I can find a job. 

Randy


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 24 Feb 2010 09:56 AM 
I didn't start this thread to go political with it. Let's try and keep partisanship and blame manship out of it. 

Dwight,

Dwight,
im sure you didnt initially intend this to become a "political" thread,
But unfortunately there is no way a thread like this can NOT be political..
simply because its a political issue to begin with..

Politics is behind the current economy, and its behind lack of jobs..this whole topic is, by nature, a political topic..

(personally I dont think there should *any* political topics on MLS..but thats a different issue)

Scot


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 24 Feb 2010 05:49 PM 
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Feb 2010 11:06 AM 
Posted By xo18thfa on 24 Feb 2010 10:52 AM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 24 Feb 2010 10:35 AM 






I just hope things hold out for another 2 years, 10 months, and 354 days when I'm ready to fly the coup!









Boy, there is some calculus in that. When is the last day? 

HOL' ON THERE, BOBALOUIE!

"2 years" = 24 months

Plus

"10 months" = 34 months

Plus

"354 days" = hmmmm.... 354 days = 11 months and about 10 days...

Thus

You have 45 months, 10 days... or 3 Years, 9 months and 10 days...

Right?

You're right!







That should have been 3 years, 10 months, and 17 days (I think)! 
Boy, there is some calculus in that. When is the last day?Jan 13, 2013







This March 20th will make 40 years I've worked for this company - rather rare these days, especially in Silicone Valley. I started in manufacturing at 19 years old earning $2.00/hr. My take-home pay was around $45.00/week! hehehe It was enough to allow me to buy a used car, feed myself, and share rent with a buddy.









That is great news about your company! Hopefully, the trend you see will continue.I hear ya Mark. We slowed down as well. In Jan of last year, all the manufacturing people went on Workshare (a State program where you work 4 days a week and draw unemployment on the 5th day). I and the other "staff" people didn't have to participate in that program this time around, though I've had to do it a few times during past recessions. Starting last Oct, things picked up and manufacturing has been working 10 hour days plus Saturdays pretty much ever since. We've also hired a few extra bodies, most being previous employees we'd been forced to lay off.

More people were streaming in today. I'm told some of the applicants are holders of Bachelors degrees, with one or two Masters and even one PhD applying for a minimal (not minimum) wage manufacturing starting position. Pretty sad! In addition to being glad my own position is relatively secure at the moment, I'm glad we can supply some jobs to a few of those in need of one. I think it's a great company to work for (obviously). We have many people who have been there over 20 years, including almost all of the "staff" and many in manufacturing. Not that many "blue collar" jobs left anymore (relatively speaking).

Well, now that's all sorted out. On 13 Jan 2012 we all meet at Dwight's house, drink 365 beers, link all the pull tabs together in a chain and give the "short timers chain" to Dwight. Every day he takes off one pull tab. When the chain is gone, he gets to retire. It's an Army thing.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

It's not politics to worry about this, and it has a Huge, huge affect on this hobby, and on the MLS community. You say it is the fault of homeowner greed? You are taking the short view: Jobs have been dying out in manufacturing since before the 1970's: the steel mills are gone, much auto production either left the US or automated, factories are becoming condos or crack houses, railroad trackage has shrunk, railroads bankrupt or abandoned, US-made goods absent from store shelves.....I went to Chicago and scanned the skyline..not one smokestack, no smoke, just a crane at Rush Hospital.... 
This has been going on for quite a while, and many people want to bring manufacturing back. But the News media just goes on with its happy snow job about "growth". 
I believe that there is an answer. But from the clueless media. 


TUL


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

im sure you didnt initially intend this to become a "political" thread,
But unfortunately there is no way a thread like this can NOT be political..
simply because its a political issue to begin with..You're right Scot as far as that goes. What I was saying is to try and keep partisanship and blame manship out of it. It does no good when someone blames the conservatives, because another member of a conservative persuasion is going to jump in and vehemently deny it, while at the same time proclaiming (sometimes loudly) that liberals are to blame. And obviously the reverse holds true. And just as obviously, it escalates and gets louder and louder until the thread gets locked.


We all have our own opinions about how things got to where they are now and whose fault it is. In the end, that's all they are - our personal political opinions. Long experience has shown that debate of those opinions serves no constructive purpose on MLS, and too often turns toxic. My suggestion was to leave those political opinions out of our posts.
OTOH, MLS is, in many ways (at least for me), an extended family. IMHO, occasional topics that allow us to discuss something other than trains, share things about our personal lives other than our trains, and share some of our immediate problems and concerns relating to our situations in general allows us to relate to one another with a better understanding of the person on the other side of the keyboard, to know our fellow members better, to realize commonalities other than trains, and to treat each other with the respect due each of us - even if we know from previous experience that we may have some fundamental differences in some of our opinions. I don't see that as a bad thing.









Like I said, IMHO.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

On 13 Jan 2012 we all meet at Dwight's house, drink 365 beers, link all the pull tabs together in a chain and give the "short timers chain" to Dwight. Every day he takes off one pull tab. When the chain is gone, he gets to retire. It's an Army thing.Sounds good Bob!! Let's DO it!!!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree If you can retire a little early do it. My dad never made it to retirement missed it by 6 months. That's when I said I'm not going to work any longer than I need to. I worked for 43 years and still took an early retirement at 62 and never looked back. Yep the wife works but like some have said when she retires the train stuff get cut back that's ok as I've built up on my RR stuff so I will not need to buy much when she retires. One thing about it I've not been bored to many train projects to do plus some small side jobs. Life is great. Later RJD


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

I agree, Dwight, MLS is like an extended family. Every person here has a story and thoughts, and being able to share them directly is a great thing. 

Cheers


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