# New bearings on 24



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

My #24 needs new bearing on the rear and front axles. They are Very worn out. (i follow a sort of Rio Grande southern Maintainance program- you narrow gauge guys know what i mean) i tend to make do with what i have- but it needs some more work. had a slight accident also.what is the easiest way to replace these? my plan was to remove the counterweights and rods, then loosen the drivers and slide the axle out. then i could remove the old ones and replace them. i could also replace the two bad drivers.


justr a thought.


nate


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> My #24 needs new bearing on the rear and front axles. They are Very worn out. (i follow a sort of Rio Grande southern Maintainance program- you narrow gauge guys know what i mean) i tend to make do with what i have- but it needs some more work. had a slight accident also.what is the easiest way to replace these? my plan was to remove the counterweights and rods, then loosen the drivers and slide the axle out. then i could remove the old ones and replace them. i could also replace the two bad drivers.
> 
> 
> justr a thought.
> ...


Nate
Email Roundhouse and see if they have a manual for the 24. Jason can get the parts for you.
Art
BTW I would wait until you have a quiet period after school is out/


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## rexcadral (Jan 20, 2016)

*Do you have a wheel puller?*

...or a quartering jig? If I recall correctly Roundhouse press-fits their hardware onto round axles. Getting them off is non-trivial, you need the right tool or you'll bend the frame or the axle, or the counterweight. 

I for one can't believe you've only had that locomotive for a year and you've worn the bearings? Even if you ran it an hour a day, it shouldn't need that kind of maintenance yet. Do you oil it regularly? What color is the oil after a run?

Taking off the counterweights means you're on the hook for re-quartering them when they go back on. It has to be dead right, across ALL THREE AXLES, or your loco's timing will at best, be off, at worst, it won't run.

Are you close enough to an adult Roundhouse owner that you can verify your bearings actually need replacing? It'd be a shame if your youthful vigor ruined your prize locomotive.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Unless the earlier production differed, the Sandy River has square ends on the axles with matching holes on the counterweights, so quartering is automatic. The counterweights may be stubborn to get off, though--small hardwood wedges driven evenly on each side of the axle, between frame and back of counterweight, helped get my Alco (same construction as the SR) apart to install different drivers.

Larry


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

An afterthought to my post above--

The drivers are held to the axles with set screws on RH engines designed for either 32 or 45 mm gauge. Measure the back-to-back before removing, or ask Jason to get you the Roundhouse gauge for this, when ordering the new bushings.

Larry


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

*Bearings for 24*

Nate
Bill Courtwirgt just called me and he is going to send me an article that he did for Steam in the Garden
that details the solution to the bearing work.
He says it is not the bearings but itis the axle and he says that it is not a hrad job to replce them. He said Jason has the axles. And as was said upabove the counterweights are self adjusting.
I am waiting for Bill to email me the issue number about the axles.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate, As mentioned above it may be the axles that are worn. I had that problem on my C16. I replaced the brass bushings with sealed ball bearings. You might consider doing the same. Here is the location of my post on that rework. Sorry, I can't seem to get it to show up as a link.

http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/28510-overhaul-c16.html[/URL]Overhaul C16


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Yes they simply are attached by a set screw. i have had drivers come loose on multiple occasions, (and a few derailments)

Turns out the axles need replaced not the bearings, as i read in an old SitG issue (thanks art)

i remeber reading this before now, about the axles wearing down.


MY SR&RL is pulling a train that has on avearage 80 axles, being pulled by a 2 (techinally not 3) axle locomotive. this means 1 axle has a load of 40 axles behind it, running on 1-2 % grades, and wheelslip is what really put wear on it.



i am AT LEAST the 3rd owner of this engine,

she has quite a few miles on her small drivers.



so yup, she needs a little work.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

rexcadral said:


> ...or a quartering jig? If I recall correctly Roundhouse press-fits their hardware onto round axles. Getting them off is non-trivial, you need the right tool or you'll bend the frame or the axle, or the counterweight.
> 
> I for one can't believe you've only had that locomotive for a year and you've worn the bearings? Even if you ran it an hour a day, it shouldn't need that kind of maintenance yet. Do you oil it regularly? What color is the oil after a run?
> 
> ...


 

i put the oil on it ids a clear/light yellow.after a half hour or so or running, it is solid black.



No mine is an inside framed engine unlike your sammie you had, and the wheels are self quatering


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> Turns out the axles need replaced not the bearings, as i read in an old SitG issue (thanks art)
> 
> i remeber reading this before now, about the axles wearing down.


I seem to remember that the reason the harder axles wear is that the grit gets lodged in the softer bearing material. Therefore the grit is not moving but the axles are turning in the bearing. Thus the grit wears the harder axle.

Thus if you just replace the axles they will start to wear again straight away. Prudence says also change the bearings if you change the axles.

DougieL


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

A few points to consider:

Maybe don't pull 20 cars behind a small loco? Even so they are maybe at best 2lb cars. A string of 6-8 cars looks perfect behind them. 

Oil is one thing, but you run on the ground a lot, how often do you clean it. I mean really clean it not wipe off with a rag. Degreaser on the frame and drivetrain. Cleaned with a brush and rinsed off with hot water and dried well? With the ground dirt and your ballast, Id think it should be cleaned after just 1-2 hours of running. 

The actual Oil is the next point, you bought Greenvelvet lubricating oil, why are you using a light grade yellow/clear oil? It doesn't hold up to the heat, nor does it flush out the dirt. If anything it acts like a abrasive with the dirt and that's why its black, the black is the metal grinding away with the lubricant.

Age of a loco has nothing to do with wear. Care of the loco does. I have locos that are 2x as old as you are Nate. My oldest is an Aster from 1977? With proper lubrication and cleaning they will outlast you and I.

As to replacing the axles, the one that wears the most of the rear one that the main rod is connected to due to the piston causing most of the movement. The others will wear but less as the crankpins and slop on the rods account for less pressure on those axles. Axles are a drop in part, but you also need to look at the crankpins, bearings and rods too. When one wears they tend to cause more wear on the rest of the drivetrain. Also the Walschaerts link gets work on the forward position as the bolt is always hitting back and forth there. Usually that is when the timing starts to go out as its a loss of motion.

We all started somewhere, Me I had a Accucraft Ida and still have it. Its as new as the day I got it about 18 years ago. Its well cared for and the eccentrics are still tight with no wear.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Hit the nail on the head with a sledge hammer Jay. Its all about keeping the running gear/bearings flushed out and lubricated with correct oil. So very important on ground level lines with the extra grit and grime being picked up. But important even on engines that see use on raised lines as well. My little bench top parts washing tank was the best money I have spent. I can flush the running gear and allow to drip dry with degreasing solvent that is safe for paint and plastics. Its heated as well and leaves the running gear nice and clean, even brown somewhat cooked on grime on used engines is gone after a good bath. Obviously one must avoid any electronics that are not water proof. All part of the maintance of a live steamer. If you have a blow down on the model, one can made up a flexable hose/wand and steam clean the running gear like they did with real 1:1 scale engines. I see on the UK forums about Roundhouses needing refreshed motion and axle bearings, but when you see the before pics, you can see that the engine was not being maintained like it really should be. Mike


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## fkrutzke (Jan 24, 2008)

Nate:

What happens is the dust from the ballast works its way into the bearings. These microscopic particles get permanently imbedded into the softer bronze bearings which then wears down the harder steel axle. You must thoroughly flush out the bearings with a good solvent after each run. 

Winn Erdman had this problem with one of his locos. He posted about replacing his bearings on MLS some time ago. you should be able to search for the postings.

With all of the K-27 coal locomotives I delivered I provided a manual that suggested using Stoddard Solvent to clean the loco. A small garden pressure sprayer with the solvent in it does a good job. You can buy these at Lowes or Home Depot. The Hudson brand is a good one. There 1 or 2 gal. sprayers are more than adequate. The 2.5 gal Favorite Eliminator Sprayer Model No. 13620489 costs about $25 and should do a really good job. Be sure to pump it up to get a really strong spray, and then oil the loco after a good cleaning.

Stoddard solvent is available in bulk, I buy it in a 5 gal yellow (kerosene) gas can, yellow to distinguish it from gasoline, from my local petroleum supplier that sells bulk petroleum products.

Also, do not leave the solvent stored in your sprayer. The solvent will over a period of time shrink the cup on the piston. I use a funnel and pour it back into my yellow can.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate,

Just another comment about thoroughly cleaning your locomotive after every run. You really need to flush the bearings with a solvent. Dirt is the enemy of your axles and bearings.

When we ran our 1-1/2 inch scale Mogul, we used kerosene in a sprayer which "atomized" the fluid into a fine spray so we could completely flush the valve gear components and bearings and driver journals of dust, dirt and excess oil from all moving parts. The bearings in that engine were bronze bearings and they lasted over forty years of running every weekend. I know this is a larger engine than your #24, but the "principle" remains the same for all engines and sizes.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with fkrutzke on spraying with solvent. We have one of his great coal fired K27's and after running lay it in a plastic tub and spray it down with solvent. It is amazing how much grime comes out when we rinse it with hot water.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

the entire engine is wased out thoruoghtly (degreased, washed down, and soaked) about every 8 hours of running time.



Jay,

All my cars are bachmann/lgb with plastic wheels and are very very light. i oil them regularly.- although, they still put a fair amount of weight behind her.
I use green velvet steam oil (good stuff BTW  ), however i use the 3in1 blue can machinery oil for running gear/axles.
she regularly runs on the ground, and she does get a fair amount of dirt, but i wipe it off the best i can. 

one nice thing about inside frame is when you oil the running gear it wont run down on the drivers and onto the rails, and the bearings are a little more "protected" IMHO


i think this will be a project later in the yor. she is good enough for now, but i wanted to get plenty of opinions before starting.

its also an excuse to replace the two blind drivers with flanged ones.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Waiting till 8 hours of use is way to long to wait. If you run most of the day, like on the weekend, then a complete flush and relube is in order. You are seeing one of the reasons steam was quickly done away with on railroads. They are maintaince hogs when compared to diesels. You have to pay several people to take care of what you are doing with #24 in the real world. That cost the RR money, in labor costs, down time on the engine and supplies consumed in the process of maintance. If you ever get the chance to volunteer at one of the active steam museums, I highly recommend it You will get a whole new view of how much work goes in behind the scenes of steam powered railroading. And most of the time its just a single locomotive in steam. Think of 50 or more needing serviced and gotten ready for thier next call to duty, which could only be in a few hours. You need to be doing your flush and clean up on #24 every hour or two of use, or at the end of the day when running most of the day. Or the day after you return home from a steam up. Mike


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> the entire engine is wased out thoruoghtly (degreased, washed down, and soaked) about every 8 hours of running time.


Unless you are actually running that engine 8 hours straight EVERY run, then you have missed the point . It should be cleaned and lubed after EVERY run (no matter the length of the run). That dirt and grime collected during your runs is where you will have the grit getting into all the wrong places. Our live steam mogul was run on Sundays pulling the public for about 4-5 hours on each day. That locomotive was completely washed down and lubed after each of those runs. We also injected steam oil into the steam chests when the engine had cooled down. We did this by removing the snifter valves from the steam chest and squirt some steam oil into the cold cylinders. The engine was never put away dry. Then when we steamed up the next time, we already had lubrication in place before we ever moved the locomotive.

EDIT: Mike posted while I was writing my post. But apparently we were reading each others minds. To add to what Mike commented on why the railroads finally went to diesals and away from steam power........my teacher (retired steam locomotive engineer for Southern Pacific for over 40 years) who taught me to fire our club Little Engines 1-1/2 inch Pacific 4-6-2 said that S.P figured the running time to maintenance time at a ratio of one to three/four. I.E. one hour of running time to every three to fours hours of maintenance time. The same thing is true with our models, no matter what size or scale.


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## insanerocketkid (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> i put the oil on it ids a clear/light yellow.after a half hour or so or running, it is solid black.
> 
> 
> 
> No mine is an inside framed engine unlike your sammie you had, and the wheels are self quatering


The wheels should not be self quartering. The wheels themselves do not have any impact on the operation of the valve gear. The counterweights, on the other hand are critical and may or may not be self quartering. 



Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> Turns out the axles need replaced not the bearings, as i read in an old SitG issue (thanks art)



How do you know this? Just because you read it does not mean that is what is wrong. Your best bet is to flip the engine over so that there is NO weight on the drivers, and try to move each driver around individually. Move it laterally as well as front/back and up/down. If you have significant amount of wear, it will "slap around" a bit. 

This is a case of "go and see". You can read papers all you want, but until you go and see the situation, you do not truly know what the situation is.



What do you feel the benefit of going with flanged drivers on all three axles is? Really think that through. 

Being that it is an outside frame locomotive, you should not have to press ANY of the drivers off of the axles to get the journal boxes reworked. However if you really do need to replace the axle, then I guess all bets are off. How will you properly quarter the axles?

All questions to think about. I know you say your engine is capable of pulling everything, but if you are replacing the axles, you may be over-loading it. Look at mainline steam engines. They have a maximum allowable load that they can/will run based on the territory they are running on. They look at tonnage ratings/grade charts and determine their capacity. And I guarantee they often use the diesel to reduce wear and tear on the locomotive.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

insanerocketkid said:


> The wheels should not be self quartering. The wheels themselves do not have any impact on the operation of the valve gear. The counterweights, on the other hand are critical and may or may not be self quartering.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
AGAIN.


the axles have sqaue ends that fit into the counterweights making sure thyey are quartered.

My engines is rather prone to slipping, and thefblind drivers are also smaller so they dont touch the eail (so its a big 2-4-2)



Adding another set of drivers increases traction, and i think it will track better

i laid her on her side, and the axles can move up and down iside the bearings about .7 mm i'd say.

i only plan on replacing the rear axle BTW

again, the drivers are not pressed on the axles. they will simply slide right off by loosening a set screw (which has come loose multiple times and caused a few derailments)


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Gary Armitstead said:


> Unless you are actually running that engine 8 hours straight EVERY run, then you have missed the point . It should be cleaned and lubed after EVERY run (no matter the length of the run). That dirt and grime collected during your runs is where you will have the grit getting into all the wrong places. Our live steam mogul was run on Sundays pulling the public for about 4-5 hours on each day. That locomotive was completely washed down and lubed after each of those runs. We also injected steam oil into the steam chests when the engine had cooled down. We did this by removing the snifter valves from the steam chest and squirt some steam oil into the cold cylinders. The engine was never put away dry. Then when we steamed up the next time, we already had lubrication in place before we ever moved the locomotive.
> 
> EDIT: Mike posted while I was writing my post. But apparently we were reading each others minds. To add to what Mike commented on why the railroads finally went to diesals and away from steam power........my teacher (retired steam locomotive engineer for Southern Pacific for over 40 years) who taught me to fire our club Little Engines 1-1/2 inch Pacific 4-6-2 said that S.P figured the running time to maintenance time at a ratio of one to three/four. I.E. one hour of running time to every three to fours hours of maintenance time. The same thing is true with our models, no matter what size or scale.


 
Gary, every 8 hours is usually when i soak the entire engine. however, after every half hour or so of running, excess oil is wiped off and the running gear gets oiled again. 

I am known for keeping my engine rather clean, and same goes for the valve gear.


PS On the larger 7 1/2 scale stuff, about how much do cars weigh? just out of curiosity.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

By pure physics, adding another set of drivers does not add traction. The friction between 2 surfaces is most dependent on weight, not surface area. This can be somewhat variable when affected by a suspension.

The fact you say your locos are prone to slipping, and then you say you run 20 cars, if your locos could talk, they might tell a different story, maybe overloaded?

But this is your loco and you can run it any way you want. From an "outsider's" view, the excessive wear, slipping, under-maintenance all add up to your current situation quite logically.

Will be interested to see if it is the bearings or axle, my "bet" is on the axle, from what I have read before, but my "bet" is just for fun.

I think we all need to lay off Nate, and let him pull it apart and report. How he maintains and runs his loco from here on out is his call, and whether he takes the advice given or not is similarly his call. 

I know everyone is trying to help, but it seems to be turning into a big dogpile.

Greg 1,183


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## insanerocketkid (Jan 2, 2008)

OK. If you think it is a 2-4-2, do you think you will increase traction if you correct the center driver? 

You will be spreading the same amount of weight on the third driver... Resulting in less weight per axle. 

Food for thought..


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Congrats on being pictured in color in the new issue of Steam in the Garden Nate! Just increase the frequency of your full cleanings of #24's running gear Nate. Thats all you have to do. Flush it all out and relubricate more often. Along with the normal lubrication of the motion before running each time. Its the Flush with hot solvent to remove the grit thats important to the life of the motion and bearings. Mike


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> Gary, every 8 hours is usually when i soak the entire engine. however, after every half hour or so of running, excess oil is wiped off and the running gear gets oiled again.
> 
> I am known for keeping my engine rather clean, and same goes for the valve gear.
> 
> ...


Nate,

Regarding the weight of 7-1/2 inch gauge cars.......my caboose is the lightweight of my rolling stock at about 115-125 pounds. Mostly wood with a steel under frame and of course all steel trucks. The old-time (circa 1890-1900 model weighs in at about 150 pounds. The wood reefer is about 170 pounds and more massive. The heavyweight car is my were all steel 48 foot gondola......that is very heavy at 225 pounds! These are all "empty" weights. Then you start adding adult riders and your train gets real heavy, real quick! Some of the heavier rolling stock used at Los Angeles Live Steamers and other clubs are the heavyweight passenger cars, over 10 feet long, 6-wheel trucks and seat about 5 adult passengers. These can weigh in at about a quarter ton each (500 pounds).

Which brings up another point on the weight of YOUR trains behind #24.......If your loco is "prone to slippage", as you stated, then the engine is trying to tell you something.......TOO MUCH weight! That "slippage" is probably saving your some more damage to your engine in the bearings, axles and parts of the valve gear. Even in the prototype, these weren't big engines hauling hundreds of feet of rolling stock. Stop to think for a minute why their were so many wheel arrangements and types of steam locomotives. The railroads didn't pull out a little 0-4-0 switcher to pull a mile of reefers over Sherman Pass. They used a Big Boy. Now granted these are extremes, but it is exactly what you are doing with your"little" Prarie. Our live steam Mogul is a 500# locomotive with 2 inch bore X 3-1/2 inch stroke. We did some "modifications" to the drawbar connecting the tender to the engine which gave us the capability to shift our weight on the tender to add more force to rear drivers. A form of "weight transfer", if you will. It DID NOT give us more pulling capacity. What it did accomplish was to be able to literally "walk up" a 3-1/2% grade with a full 4 gondolas and a caboose....engineer, 3 adults per gondola and a brakeman in the caboose. That's 14 adults being pulled by a 2-6-0! We didn't use sanders or sand  either. 

I know it's "impressive" to pull long trains. But wait a few years (well quite a few years ) to purchase a Big Boy or Cab Forward and then pull long trains to your hearts content . That's what they were designed for.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate
I spoke with Bill Courtwright today and he suggests that you not mess with the bearings unless it is absolutely neccessary. He said that the bearings are brazed on to whatever.
Just do what all of the above have suggested. Bill will completly clean his 24 after every run at end of day. Before he runs every nook and cranny that needs oiling is oiled. He has been running his 24 for
close to 15 years, give or take.
He speaks from experience and you CAN BELIEVE WHAT YOU READ.
Art


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## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

As somebody who has been working with Roundhouse locos for the past 30 years, and who has been paid to do so (as an independent Roundhouse service engineer) for the last 15 years I have found this topic absolutely fascinating. I have assembled a dozen or so coal- and gas-fired SRRL24s.

I do not know how old Nate's loco is, but if it is a Mark 1 SRRL24 then the driving axles are unsprung. On unsprung locos Roundhouse axle bearings are NOT brazed to anything and they are pressed in to the frame members with a bit of help to keep them in place.

If it is a Mark 2 SRRL24 then the driving axles are sprung and the axle boxes and springs can be removed and replaced very easily. Just watch out for the springs, they can fly!


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

TonyW said:


> As somebody who has been working with Roundhouse locos for the past 30 years, and who has been paid to do so (as an independent Roundhouse service engineer) for the last 15 years I have found this topic absolutely fascinating. I have assembled a dozen or so coal- and gas-fired SRRL24s.
> 
> I do not know how old Nate's loco is, but if it is a Mark 1 SRRL24 then the driving axles are unsprung. On unsprung locos Roundhouse axle bearings are NOT brazed to anything and they are pressed in to the frame members with a bit of help to keep them in place.
> 
> If it is a Mark 2 SRRL24 then the driving axles are sprung and the axle boxes and springs can be removed and replaced very easily. Just watch out for the springs, they can fly!


 Tony
I may have misunderstood Bill. I am getting older and and sometime miss things of importance.
Art


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

One thing I would be a little concerned about is if the axles are indeed worn due to grit embedded in the bearings then it would seem that the bearings should be replaced or they will just wear the new axles.


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## fkrutzke (Jan 24, 2008)

Winn Erdman wrote: "One thing I would be a little concerned about is if the axles are indeed worn due to grit embedded in the bearings then it would seem that the bearings should be replaced or they will just wear the new axles."

Amen


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

This weekend she clipped along at a good speed with a 22 car mixed train in tow, with minimal slipping of the drivers. I think i can get a little more lif out of the old axles/bearings.

BTW the safety lifts at 65 Psi, so i got a fair amount of boiler pressure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=ztMtTajnfaU


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## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm 99% certain that is a Mark 1 loco with pressed in axle bearings.


Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> BTW the safety lifts at 65 Psi, so i got a fair amount of boiler pressure.


That is 25psi (62.5%) over what the loco's boiler and mechanical parts are designed to take. I wonder what that pressure is doing to the slide valves...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sounds like everything in that loco is under stress. Too long a train, worn bearings/axles and what appears to be over pressure.

How would over pressure affect the slide valves, other than make it a bit harder to seal?

Greg 1,172


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Sounds like everything in that loco is under stress. Too long a train, worn bearings/axles and what appears to be over pressure.
> 
> How would over pressure affect the slide valves, other than make it a bit harder to seal?
> 
> Greg 1,172


Greg,

In our 1-1/2 inch scale mogul, we have slide valves and they can be very sensitive to the pressure inside the steam chest. Sometimes the valves are "lifted" off the steam chest seat where the intake/exhaust ports are located or can be pushed down and cause excessive wear to the valve seats. And the movement of the valve steam attached to the slide valves can cause excessive wear in the bushing and packing that are sealing the steam in the chest. A similar situation occurs in the small models as well. Quite a few guys use the Johnson Bar as a "braking system" to slow a ride-on locomotive (as opposed to using the engine brakes) by notching in reverse (when going forward). It will slow a train down quite a bit. But in the process, the slide valves will be lifted and put tremendous strain and wear on the packing gland. Not a good policy. But it can be done sometimes in an emergency when you don't want to lockup the drivers with the engine brakes


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> This weekend she clipped along at a good speed with a 22 car mixed train in tow, with minimal slipping of the drivers. I think i can get a little more lif out of the old axles/bearings.
> 
> BTW the safety lifts at 65 Psi, so i got a fair amount of boiler pressure.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=ztMtTajnfaU


Nate
You would probably get more life if you reduce the length of your train. I know it fills good to have along consist but I did notice more slippage in your video.
Just a thought as others have pointed out.


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## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

Greg Elmassian said:


> How would over pressure affect the slide valves, other than make it a bit harder to seal?


Basically, it grinds the valve and its seat away as the lubricating oil is blown away by the steam pressure, so everything runs "dry". Instead of the valve moving backwards and forwards on a flat surface it cuts a slot in the top of the cylinder block that is deeper in the middle than it is at the ends. As part of that process the valve will also end up with grooves and peaks in its rubbing face that match corresponding peaks and grooves on the cylinder block. Eventually it will start "blowing by" with a roar of steam up the chimney when the regulator is opened.

The fix (!) is to remove the cylinders and abrade away enough material to make the valve and its face flat again, either by machining or lapping on a flat plate. On the older design (pre-2000) of cylinders (the ones with the rectangular valve chests) it is sometimes necessary to deepen the exhaust passage in the valve head due to its depth being reduced by wear.

Roundhouse's own notes on steam oil and what it does are well worth a read: http://www.roundhouse-eng.com/tech.htm#oil

Please do not misunderstand what I am saying: I have no issue with owners thrashing the living daylights out of their locos. Indeed, I make a living by mending them! But it has to be born in mind as one day that loco will stop working.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Greg, i take good are of my engine. The only reason it slipped the drivers was because i opendened the throttle too far. running with a train like this make running very realistic IMHO. open the throttle too far, you get some slipping so then you back off a bit. you also need to take up the slack in the consist Then try to use as little fuel as possible but enough to keep up pressure.Same with stopping. once i had to make an emergency stop ( someone laid their stuff on the main) and i threw the johnson bar in reverse, and this locked the drivers up. she slid about 10 feet with the weight of the train.(i strong reccoment not switching the johndon bar in reverse- it tears your valve gear to bits- just a quick way to stop in emergency situation)

BTW 65-70 is the safety lifting pressure, but she usually runs about 50-60 psi


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Lady anne axles 20 years running!


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## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

A similar story...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nate, no offense meant, but you refer to "prototype operation" in reference to drivers slipping.

So, in reference to prototype operation:

My understanding is that it was not desirable at all, and actually showed the skill of the engineer to be able to start w/o slipping.

Also, I believe it has been shown that you are running more cars than the prototype, although I'm sure we cannot show if the actual load you are presenting to the loco is in scale to the prototype, I'm sure your cars are LESS than scale weight, but the rolling resistance is probably more.

So, please don't get defensive, but also listen to the people giving advice... from an "outsider" it surely seems like you are at least running this loco pretty hard. Defending wheel slip and abnormal wear is a pretty tough position to take.

Regards, Greg 1,170


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

My long-deceased uncle was a career railroader and locomotive engineer. He worked for a couple of major western railroads, then some short line and industrial railroads. His career included all manner of motive power and the transition period from steam to internal combustion power. I still remember him telling us kids his RR stories while we were operating our Christmas trains, and later when he gave us the occasional cab ride on the shortline RRs. Among all the things I remember was him saying that slipping the wheels on a locomotive was an offense that would get an engineer fired!


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Ultimate wheel slip


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