# A consumer question



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

My wife tells me that I should sell figures from my first mold (the mold I usually make for adding more detail and test painting) at a reduced price instead of just cutting it up to use on the second.
I argued that no one wants a less detailed figure at any price.

Here is an example of the first mold figure. 









The second mold will have more detail, like the soles of his shoes, etc...


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally, while the economics of the process could be argued back and forth, to me it would boil down to, is the end product what I'd be satisfied putting my name on.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Right on Steve,,, also my argument


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

At 10' sometimes we just need bodies.... yes there is a market, but it will cost you, I think. Then again mass production is the Old American Way. 
Your figures are so nice I would tend to keep them as foreground models, the econo ones would fill spaces beyond... 

John


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

What would the price difference be (per cent). That might be the main factor, and ties into Steve's comment above:


50%? Sell the clearly as a "value line" for those needing background people, fill pax cars, etc. 
10%? Probably not worth it due to the potential "mix up" with the higher detailed (and cost) items?


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

John, what do you mean by it will cost me? 
Garrett, 50 % is what my wife recommended to recover the cost on the molds and the castings,,, but 
I am afraid that price will effect the second casting figures popularity if I offer a lower priced version that is a less detailed. Is that the cost that John mentions?


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

fifty percent and painted as the one in the pic? never! 
that would be too cheap. 
if you don't want to loose much of your quality sales sell the the first moulder's figures unpainted for 35 or 40%. 
but no cheaper alternatives that are ready to use.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Koresman, I should have clarified, I would not offer the first castings painted pieces at 50% less. In fact I would not want to paint the first castings at all. My painted prices are set for basic and custom painted pieces and I never reduce them because they take more time than I get back on the sell. I would only offer 1st casts as unpainted if I offer them at all. I'm still not convinced I should. Maybe just a limited number on ebay or something because I would have to discontinue them once the mold expired and I don't want to keep updating my website. 
My wifes suggestion was flattering, but the more and more I discuss it here I am convinced it isn't practical.


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## Rich Schiffman (Jan 2, 2008)

Richard,

I have purchased many of your figures and have come to expect detail and fine sculpting from you. I would rather pay a bit more since in 1/20.3 the detail, or lack of it, surely stands out. Just keep em coming......

Rich S


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with keeping up the norm for your figures. BUT, selling in limited quantities or on ebay isn't a bad idea. I would buy discount figures so I could chop them up to make different ones. swap heads arms or do minor modeling to change them. I've tried to make my own and they are just plain terrible but I can add to and remove and they come out fairly nice but I don't like to cut up several $9 models to make one. In that respect the discount figures would be invaluable. I've bid on your 2nds on ebay for just such purposes but they usually go so well I never win.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

If you do decide to sell your first castings, the most important thing would be to clearly differentiate them from your higher quality products so that the customers' expectations are properly set. There have been major corporations that have made the mistake of introducing lower cost, lower quality products without a clear distinction between them and the products their customers have come to expect, with a resultant loss of customer satisfaction and, in some cases, even ruining the brand name. In the case of your figures, it would not be possible to separate the two lines by using different product line names, because the overall similarity is undeniable. So, you would have to do it by making it very clear in the descriptions. That would be OK with me, but I couldn't say if it would work with all customers.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim's post is exactly what I was trying to convey.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Does the fact that I keep chopping up those Hong Kong copies of the Preiser pieces, LGB starter set discards, Fujimi kit people, and Lemax figures to re-pose and spot putty to change their wardrobe tell you there is probably a market for a 'value line'? Depending on how many people I need for a scene, $3-5 each I can justify... more than that? Ghost town. (That was the nice thing about n-scale... 100 unpainted figures for $5)

I'm not intentionally a skinflint, but I simply can't justify spending more... especially when it's often a choice between buying a couple premium little peoples, and not having to eat ramen and hot dogs the last 3 days of the month... Being on disability, I may be an extreme case, but I'm certain there are others who had their finance officers veto purchases on similar grounds.

Is it worth YOUR while to do it? Only you can answer that. If you can get a few dollars for something you might otherwise just throw away, then why not? If it costs you more in time than you get back, then don't.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By rkapuaala on 15 Jan 2010 12:36 PM 
John, what do you mean by it will cost me? 
Garrett, 50 % is what my wife recommended to recover the cost on the molds and the castings,,, but 
I am afraid that price will effect the second casting figures popularity if I offer a lower priced version that is a less detailed. Is that the cost that John mentions? What I think is you'll see a drop off in the detailed folk sales as the econo folk fill up the scenes... The 10' rule of viewing distance covers 90% of my layout and not all the upclose 10% is populated... 
Unless you do volume of Even po'er folk to cover the loss to your detailed line, you'll lose money for more work....
Your cost should already be figured in the price. What is your labor worth? 

Plus I agree with the first reply, what do you want your name on? In my line I stressed Quality over Quantity...

John


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

got an other idea. 
maybe it's weird... 
don't offer the first mould figures freely. 
make them avaiable only as an addition to those, who buy your first class figures.


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Del,
I believe offering your "first mold" at a discount is a great idea. Your "seconds" would still be much nicer than any figure on my RR.
They certainly wouldn't be pushed to the "back" here. 

Ralph


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, some very good feedback. I'm thinking maybe what I should do is like I do with my second quality figures (figures with visible air bubbles) and just offer those to folks on MLS. After all the mold will only last so long and once it is gone, all that will be left is the first quality figures, because the masters for those molds will always be kept.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I think that would be your best bet. You could send them out nude...unpainted, as we'd need to paint over the patches... 

My loss thought was based on years of making jewelry, both silver and gold. We'd cast the same molds for each and the silver took as much if not more work than the gold, yet sold for a fraction of the cost. Yet when the economy was off more silver than gold was going out the door. 
Your profit margin should be better on the detailed line. Selling off the reject, as is, will add to the profit. Painting will subtract, unless you also offer touch up paint...but that gets too intensive eh? 

John


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

G has the curse or blessing of having large windows and doors in buildings and railroad cars that people can see into. Buildings look out of place as empty boxes and railroad cars, especially passenger cars, look like they are missing something without people and cargo in the case of freight cars. So people figures are essential in G. But one doesn't see a great deal of detail on figures inside of buildings or in passing passenger cars or maybe even in the cab of a steamer. So great detail on the soles of their shoes isn't necessary in many cases and not worth paying for either. 

Over time I have bought several LGB small passenger cars for around $30 including shipping on ebay. So if I buy just 3 figures at $10 each to put in those cars, I have already doubles my investment in them and still probably want a few more bodies. And for the most part, the only real detail seen on these figures is from the chest up. And as the seats on different passenger cars are different, it may even be necessary to cut on legs and feet to get them to fit in. Some even take standing figures and saw off the legs and glue them in car seats. So for those reasons, I would like to see more cheap figures with less detail if that is what it takes to get prices down. 

I could imagine having a series of figures with generic, not very detailed legs and abdomens and a variety of upper bodies that fit the generic legs. There could be a small variety of generic legs, male and female, perhaps long and short dresses, and maybe some that fit different models of cars. Then when one gets a figure, they just glue the top end of choice to the bottom half. That might save money. And the more expensive figures could be saved for places where the details can be appreciated and justified. 

Doug


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

My budget situation is similiar to Miks. 

Generally, except for a few 'special people', I find myself very reluctant to spend more than a few bucks per figure; my personal rule of thumb is no more than three bucks each, including the shipping (most have come off of EBAY). As a result, I tend to end up with quite the mishmash of everything from comparatively tiny LifeLike and Hong Kong characters to Lionel engineers to Homies to Bachmann giants and castoff Aristo and LGB figures. 

What I look for - and what I found nearly impossible to find for a long while - were specific types of figures, especially fairly generic sitting figures for passenger cars. (trying to wedge a Bachmann figure into a Bachmann passenger car can be an exercise in frustration. Other figures fit, or can be made to fit, but do not seem 'right' to me much of the time.) As has been pointed out in this thread and elsewhere only the upper bodies of these people are visible, and given the angle of viewing, not all that much. There are other situations that could call for fair number of inexpensive, low detailed figures - miners for example, or maybe longshoremen.


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

If a figure of a quoted scale does not fit in a model with a given scale, there is something wrong with either the figure or the model. 
You cannot expect a 1 : 20 figure to fit in a 1 : 24 model. Even if you aquired the material for little money, ypu wil never become happy with it. 





















So instead of buying Hong Kong Preiser ripp offs, buy the original to support the maker. Buy them unpainted and they are affordable. 
Or get some unpainted LGB figres, they are only 2 Euro at: http://www.elita.de/ 

If you are really short with money, learn to make moulds and make private copies from resin or whitemetal from your friends figures. As long as you don´t deal with them, it´s legal. Expect to invest a larger sum and a lot of time to learn the trade. 

Returning to the initial question of this thread: Why should an artist offer inferior quality? He / she will not make very much money with his trials and experiments, but risks to ruin his good name. Once different qualities of figures fom the same artist are on the market, a once outstanding sculpteur risks a beeing considered only average. 

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sellers don't always state the scale or actually make their pieces to scale. And different brand cars have different seat hights and spacing between seats from my experience. And then you add in loco seats, benches, custom made stuff, etc. 

Christmas is always a time when I hunt through the village decoration stuff in hopes of finding useful stuff at good prices. Like the economy, this year was bad hunting. 

I can see very detailed figures at higher money say if the figures are going to be mounted on a stand and put in a display case on a shelf or in a small diorama. But inside some car or inside a building, the amount of detail just isn't necessary. And then there is the scale of being outdoors perhaps looking down on them. I guess there is the question of cost, quality, reputation, etc. But many companies have a lower quality economy line and it works. Not everyone wants to pay for the top of the line. The companies seem to make it in quantity sold. Making a little beats no sale at all. 

Doug


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Its all an EYE trick. The old timers taught me a phrase when I was an apprentice carpenter. They would say "Humor it". Or, make it look good to the eye. Never mind the rule or level. Make it fit the situation.


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

I could see wanting a bunch of detailed, perfect figures if you were populating a small indoor layout at somewhere near chest or eye level. Even then, if the figures are partially covered and/or somewhat difficult to see and perhaps distorted by plastic windows, detail becomes less of an issue. 

Doug


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

If you don´t care too much for details anyway, simply glue transparent slides to the windows and light from the inside. Your wagon will look populated. Use paper cutouts for your layout, From 10 or 20 feet way, nobody can tell the difference anyway. 



Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


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## bmwr71 (Jan 30, 2010)

Sounds like going from one extreme to the other.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well im late on the bus 
but 
i see this fairly simply 

cost is the leading factor to most 
you would need to find the perfect price for the naked seconds-enough so that they are seen as a value, but NOT as a substitute for you perfect and beautifully painted figures 

im speaking of a distinct line difference 
denoted by price 

as a modeler here are some of my considerations: 
1-suitability of the figure and pose-type of clothing 
to this point each maker is unique and certain figures are more versatile than others-this alone can drive my purchase 

second 
detail and style-size-is it more or less in the ballpark for the anticipated use-staion, inside a coach, etc-realistic like presier or charactures like plain folks, railroad ave etc 

third price- 
i used to choke at preiser prices for the top of line painted figures- 
i was after quantity in early stages of acquiring large scale stuff 
i went after econo and unpainted and re-painted as needed 

then after about fifty of these-i decided between my time, paints and other factors, the painted presiers were a bargain 

so ron, i guess you might need to figure out the 
econo price point 
and 
the fine model price point 

 and make them so they dont cut into one another-ie almost a toss up for what you get-the problem i thin is that the beautiful painted versions that you do just dont have an economic return (as youve mentioned)-they appeal either to fine scale modelers, folks who appreciate the artistry, and all of whom are willing to pay for this aspect-THIS MAY BE YOUR MARKET -it keeps your offerings unique to those seeking unique



otoh 
if you were to ever expand your lines 

 a' presence in the market' via this type of intro might be another consideration by the lower econo offering 

it really depends on the market you seek it seem to me (an non-marketing guy) 


boutique fine scale, or broader 1:20 figures-in which case you will have competitors and price and quality will need to find a happy balance 






depends where you want to go






i would imagine the greatest margins, to a point, is selling them naked, period


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

AS far as pricing and looking for your passengers evil bay has 1000's of auctions everyday under track and accessories like the one link under here i have provided. You just have to look, wait, watch, for the best price on the biggest quantity you are looking for or type of figures you are looking for!! Regal

20 G Scale/Scale LGB Figures/Passenger NEW - eBay (item 110487352092 end time Feb-27-10 11:12:00 PST)

As I say this is just one ad to get you there, and just look at all of the choices that are there!!


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