# Home Foudery help for making metal parts



## jemurrer (May 7, 2013)

I am thinking abut casting my own parts, primarilly for trucks and brake wheels to start with.

I have found some websites for commercial equipment, but was wondering if anyone had ideas for cheaper ways to setup a home foundery.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Best site I have found so far. This guy has lots of different furnace options depending on what you want to get in to and what your skill level is.

Back Yard Metal Casting


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

What metal will you cast in your foundry? What level of detail do you want vs. what is feasible? 

Lost wax is best for brass, silver and gold..., the level of detail can be fantastic if you know how to clean and polish after casting, my set up cost me at least 3-4 thousand in 2004 and that is just for custom one off products. For production runs you'd also need rubber molds for wax patterns; vulcanizer, wax pot, air compressor, wax and rubber. 
After you learn to make and cut a mold with a scapel, so you can pull a warm wax out and not distort it, you'll need a wax knife to heat and shape the wax and attach it to a wax tree (sprue), then mix investment and pour over your models (waxes) in a steel flask with a rbber base holding the tree, vibrate as you vacuum all the bubbles from mixing a dry powder in water.. 
To cast you need first to fire the investment (plaster) and keep it hot enough so that the metal does not fracture it upon injection and also to melt the wax out. My oven is programable and the burnout usually happened overnight 
For 20 years I used Oxy/Acetylen to melt, now I have an Electromelt furnace, a vacuum assit casting table.....sorry I don't know of a cheap way and I wouldn't go to that trouble for any metal less strong than brass. 

Sand casting is cheaper, but not suited to what you want to cast. 

If it were cheap and easy we'd all be doing it. 

I was a gold and silver smith in Laguna Beach, Ca for 25 years, my way is a professional's approach. For us it was cheaper to do it right, than to spend time cleaning and fixing bad castings... 

Good Luck 

John


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## jemurrer (May 7, 2013)

Thank yu for the info.
My father-n-law used to do this for a living at the local GM plant were they made carborator parts. Hopefully he can give me some ideas also

I think the first step is to find out as much as I can first.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

I would have to agree 100% with John. For "G scale" parts, lost wax is the way to go. What I posted is more suited to sand casting and larger quantities. But "someday" when I build a set-up for some larger projects, I'm going to see just how small I can take sand/or similar casting. I'd be very happy to make some truck frames. They are what really hurt the pocket book. Until then I'll be buying castings too.


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## riffer (May 13, 2013)

Just to add to what Totalwrecker is saying, a lot of artists/jewellers etc. use small investment casting setups at home or in their studios. Look up "lost wax casting" on Youtube for some examples. The equipment can be expensive new, but can be found used for a more reasonable price. 

Like Nutz-n-Bolts, this is on my "someday" list.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Also consider that the cost of doing a 3D solid model, and having it printed in 3D in a resin (similar to a wax) is getting cheaper all the time. I have been in contact with Bob Hartford and am seriously considering going through him to castings. He uses the original SLA model to generate a master mold, them a master part from that. Yeah, I am aware that there will be a loss of some fidelity there, but I figure for the cost of his mold (the master only) I can get A LOT of casting done for what the equipment will cost. And for small detail items where strength is not an issue, there are some great casting resins out there that will not require that kind of investment in equipment. 

FWIW 

Bob C.;


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## jemurrer (May 7, 2013)

The information that I am getting here leads me to learn more about this subject, and what type of investment this would be.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

JE, 

I also need to add that the castings from Bob Hartford are a high tin pewter, hot a real hard metal like brass. Most of the detail parts and after market trucks are of a similar metal. There are people on this and other fora that are casting truck side frames out of resins. Some of the new resins are very strong. I have also considered casting truck side frames in resin adding a brass sleeve for the journal area for wear. I believe Steve C has captured some of the old articles, and I know there was at least one on casting. 

Metal casting of any nature is quite expensive, both in the required equipment and the supplies needed. For investment casting, a kiln is almost mandatory and they are either electric or gas (natural or propane are the most common). Keep in mind that the lower the operating voltage (110 vs 220 volts) the higher the operating cost. The cheapest electric kiln would be a 480v 3 phase, but his is usually not available in most residential or rural areas. Both types can be pricey as the duration required can be several hours of high capacity burn to cure the 'plaster' and incinerate the wax (regardless of wax material). Unless you have a ready supply of scrap brass (or whatever material you plan to cast), raw material can also start to add up. Most modern investment casting processes use a form of ceramic for the molds but this material also takes an even higher curing temperature than the old timey dental plaster. 

My intention is not to scare you away, but rather to make you aware of a couple of the necessary researches that you will need to do. I am sure that others will chime in and either support or correct my input. My research on this was done some 25 or so years ago, but I believe it to still be relevant. 

Bob C.


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## spincaster (Mar 10, 2012)

I have to agree with Bob about getting a lot of cast parts made for the cost of setting up. In addition, beleive it or not, there is a learning curve. Setting up for lost wax casting is probably going to cost $2000-$3000 to do it right and maybe less if you can find some used equipment cheaper that works properly. There are small gas and 110VAC kilns available. I had a Neycraft kiln that was very nice. Vacuum casting is simpler/cheaper to set up for than centrifugal. Electric melt pot is the way to go. Kerr wax injector is sweet. 

I do spincasting of Britannia in rubber molds as a hobby (in business for 10 years) which is pretty economical but requires more skill and learning than lost wax and equipment is a lot lot lot more $. 

It is possible to drop cast Britannia metal in RTV silicone mold material but you need to control the metal temperature accurately which means a thermometer and electric melt pot. The process is slow and mold life is usually limited. 

For a hobbyist resin casting is probably the way to go in cost and learning curve. Investment casting is probably second choice 

If you are CAD savy 3D printing is great for patterns and in some cases parts. I've been using 3D printing for a few years and it is increadible. 

Or just hire the cast parts done and save a lot of $ and frustration unless you enjoy the craft.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

http://www.riogrande.com/Product/Manual-Fiber-Furnace-110-Volt/703125?Pos=9 

This is my favorite Co. to order from, this oven (above) is a cheaper electric oven and the most essential part of casting. Other items can be substituted, but the oven burns out the wax, fires the investment (plaster) and holds it at high heat 800- 900 degrees until you introduce molten metal 1200-1500 degrees and Doesn't fracture, cools off safely, and quenches cleanly, meaning under water it flakes and breaks away cleanly, don't breathe the vapors. 
Of course you might get lucky and find a used oven worth buying, cheaper, but that isn't a sure thing and you rarely get a warantee... 

I have experience and would chose to lost wax brass over lessor metals just because outdoors is a tougher environment and our toys are bigger, heavier and can fall farther. The other plus side of brass is it can be silver soldered for strength. Peweter is more likely repaired with an iron than a torch. 

When casting silver we always added 50% new metal to previously cast sprues and bad castings. Metal can get brittle and alloys can burn off over time. New metal came from a refiner. As a commercial caster or a hobbyist trying to 'make it pay for itself' you'd need clean quality castings, no cutting corners. Ours is a small market, you'd need repeat customers and great word of mouth advertising.... quality begats that. 

Anybody in S Az want to do some castings? I've got (most of) the tools, just since the cancer, no money or energy to invest. 

John


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## spincaster (Mar 10, 2012)

John, 

That is a sweet little burnout kiln. Just a tad smaller in size to the Neycraft I used. 

I have cast both silicone-bronze and Britannia not to mention dreaded Zinc Aluminum. All have their place. It is a matter of matching material to product. Silicone bronze is a fairly forgiving alloy and is superior to brass for loco parts but is darker color than brass. One issue with burn out required for investment casting is stench/polution issue. Where I live my neighbors would probably not tollerate fumes from burnout if done more than occassionally. No matter how you cut it, setting up for quality investment casting isn't going to be done on the cheap. 

To set up for a business venture is much more involved than could be discussed here. Setting up for hobby casting is a different story entirely. 

Britannia alloy, specifically 92/8 is suitable for many parts and can be drop cast manually in RTV rubber. The only expensive part is a melt pot which if you're careful might be just a CI pot on a gas burner. A thermometer is needed to monitor temperature of about 550-650 degF. The mold needs to be a closed type and needs to be about 250deg to produce good cast parts. Getting the mold hot may just mean making a bunch of cast parts to get the mold hot enough to cast good parts. The mold needs to be dusted with talc prior to each pour. This could be done on the cheap and is a good place to learn a little about metal casting. 

You can also produce investment molds w/o use of waxes. This involves making RTV rubber molds to cast investment mold halves that are dried out in a regular oven prior to casting in desired metal. It has been done in rapid prototying for many years. 

There are a lot of ways to approach making things and one just has to do some study and pick your poison! If you are thinking in terms of business you had better do your homework and maybe get some experience first. If you are thinking of hobby casting I would start small and simple and see what you can do. I enjoy the patternmaking/mold making/casting craft and if you like to make things you might just have some fun!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Spin, 
I am aware af the variety of way and whats to cast... my shop is primarily for a home jewelry biz, have since been fleeced and cancerated..... full stop Cap'n. The Neycraft line is good, we used their larger programable ovens in production work and could fit 3 4x5" flasks in it. Aprox 80 silver rings and whatever in the gold flask .... I'm old and done with production work, I'd rather do one of kind Artsy fartsy stuff. 

We be edumacating the gals and guys here.... 

The link in the above post is a gateway to realizing true expenses. Also a good reference book when buying used. 
Be searching through Craig's list and want ads in Artst towns, buy used. With gold beyond reasonable there are probably many unhappy get rich quickers out there! 
Also search for Discount Jewelry supply .. old story best tools from Swiss and Germany, but India and Pakistan make good ones, sometimes as a building block until you can afford better, then sell off to a new you. 

John


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## spincaster (Mar 10, 2012)

I have a need for a few parts to be cast in brass. I can supply waxes ready to attach to the sprue tree or base. Anyone know a caster willing to cast a few parts at a reasonable price? Jack


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