# Three D Printers



## bruja (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm scratch building a locomotive and am intrigued by the potential of 3D printers to make parts not available commercially. I know a little about the process of using 3D CAD software to design the part that can then be connected to a printer which I understand might cost $1,200. There are cheaper ways to do it but I'm fascinated by the technology. Has anyone looked tried this or looked into it enough to know about software-printer compatibility, i.e. which software works with which printer?


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## RGSNH (Jan 13, 2008)

Your software must be able to output .stl files. these are the industy standard that is used. I own a copy of Solidworks and it is one of many output file formats. One thing i would certaily consider is not purchasing a machine yourself. the machines in that price rainge will not give you a resolution you will be happy with. They are nice toys, and are getting better. That said the service buearus will give you the best resolution, but you will pay for it. this will eliminate much frustration however as you will get the desired results the first time. most service buearus willl give you a price before you commit, just by uploading you files. 

Al P.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Has anyone looked tried this 
My pal in Florida has a 3D printer and has made odd parts, like an LGB coupler for his Ruby loco. (http://www.rubylgb.com/ .) I believe one or two model kit builders are using the technology to produce casting masters. 

Yes, it has huge potential, but the software and the learning curve are keeping me away for the moment.


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

3-D printing is likely to become the game changer in the hobby industry where the standing orders are to sustain in keep-alive mode. The concept, pioneered at MIT, has transformed orthopedic and dental transplant re-engineering for years now. One way to appreciate it is to study the evolution of 3-d printing itself, where super-substrates with stainless steel like quality upon hardening are replacing plastics in the *battlefield at very low cost* (link). A $450 printer for 'spare parts' is not too far away.



Cheers,
Victor


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

intresting thread, keep it alive. I am pursuing a similar idea..... 
Cheers michael


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## bruja (Jan 7, 2008)

Victor. Thanks for that link to videos. Fascinating! I am going to follow up on some of the leads I now have. Thanks to all for responding. Bruja


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

3D printing will have benefits for the future. You will be able to manufacture at low cost the parts you require to make individual prototypes of things that'll take forever to see released. The cad .stl files can be open sourced via groups on the net to shrink development time and use a highly skilled programmer. For small builders and niche prototypers like myself I will be able to at a much lower cost fabricate for myself and others. I am excited by this as I will be able to produce scale prototypes of a high quality within my means.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Check out Shapeways.com You can use Blender 3D design software which is free and upload a *.stl file for them to 3D print from various materials. 
The smaller scale guys are doing entire models. 

http://www.shapeways.com/model/605927/hon30-pbr-decauville-861.html?li=productBox-search


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

wow that is realy something


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## bruja (Jan 7, 2008)

Sketchup makes 3D cad software and has available a free download with which to learn techniques. It is from Google. I've just started with tutorials and don't know yet if it can lead to .stl files but I plan to practice making the sandbox on pilot of Uintah's 2-6-6-2T. Bruja


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Bruja

You might want to review the following.









Comparison of Trimble's Sketchup and Sketchup Pro[/b]


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

I have had a go at using free cad to make a basic model of a box car... After several hours and much frustration i managed to get the axles omplete and started on the dolly...it is a very steep learning curve.
I had no expirience with any cad software and it is very different to paint or draw programs.
However once the basic models are made it becomes quite straight forward...
Maybe we could put up a resource site for cad models for various train or loco parts such as wheels dollies etc, i am not sure about the involved costs of 3 d printing tho...
Cheers michael


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Talking of 3D printing - has anyone tried making rivets by depositing them on a plastic/styrene part?


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

*Coming Soon At Staples ? (Amsterdam)*


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

My friend Dave and I each have built a 3D printer Dave has his calibrated and printing very well. I still working on getting the X,Y and Z axis calibrated and then need to calibrate the extruder. The build area is about 8 inches by 8 inches by 6 inches high. 
Here is mine. 






























This is a print of a vase that Dave found on thingiverse. http://www.thingiverse.com/categories/3d-printing 

I took the photo under a magnifying glass and it is about 2 inches wide and .028 thick and printed out of natural PLA. 























As soon as I learn how to print with this one, I plan on building a printer that will have a print area of 8 inches by 26 inches by 10 inches tall. 

Rodney


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Rod,

I played with a Printbot 3D printer for several weeks a few months back, it was a fun project but I found the resolution lacking for my needs. The Printbot Company is nearby Sacramento and I was fortunate to receive a guided tour of the Printbot bot farm… They had many machines in operation producing parts to replicate themselves, neat stuff. 

All of the hobby orientated machines seem to be somewhat behind the curve with regard to resolution as compared to the hardcore commercial machine offerings, albeit there is grand difference in cost….

The technology of these hobby machines will continually evolve at this juncture providing extruder improvements, enhanced resolution and become very useful to modelers that require finer resolution at an affordable price. I’m going to get another machine late next year, by then I suspect I’ll be happier with the machines resolution. 

Printbot offers an entry level machine for $400.00, right now!

Your machine structure looks good, whom offers this printer?

Michael


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Mike
It is a modified ORD Bot.
http://www.buildlog.net/wiki/doku.php?id=ord_bot:the_ord_bot
We used laser cut .125 alum on all the our parts. The build uses thinner parts and there was a discussion about the motor mounts flexing around. 
I'm going to change the Z axis threaded rod to 1/2 inch 10 acme cause one of my all thread is bent a little and I sure it will show in the prints.

The resolution that Dave is getting is unbelievable. I cannot feel the layers on the vase that is in the photo. I'm going to meet him tomorrow night
to work on mine more and will ask him what the layer height was on it .We are using .35 mm nozzles on both of our printers. He is using a different
extruder that is mounted to the handle frame and has a tube running down to the hotend.

Rodney


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Talking of 3D printing - has anyone tried making rivets by depositing them on a plastic/styrene part?

I guess it is possible but the software/printer would have to have a very accurate concept of the part and how it is mounted that is being added to avoid crashing the print head.
Bonding to other materials would also be an issue.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

If already using your own 3D modeling software that does not save *.stl files you may be able to save a to a 'common' 3D file type such as a *.obj then reload in other software that does save an *.stl file.

Shapeways printing service accepts the following file types: STL, OBJ, X3D, Collada[/i] or VRML97/2.[/i]


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## BrianTFowler (Sep 20, 2012)

At my work I have a $40,000 3D printer. It is amazing what it can do. I can print moving parts in a closed system & unlimited color. Different hardeners can make objects very durable.... However, I haven't liked the quality it makes on large scale cars. I have made some amazing prototype concrete bridges in HO and even N scale (think of the 1920s art-deco bridges). To print out a streamlined passenger car would just be a disappointment. If the prototype is supposed to made of metal, you will see a "grain" as the layers of powder are built up when printing. 

I will keep working on perfecting modeling with my printer and will keep everyone posted. 

http://www.zcorp.com/en/Products/3D-Printers/ZPrinter-450/spage.aspx


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By BrianTFowler on 06 Dec 2012 07:28 PM 
At my work I have a $40,000 3D printer. It is amazing what it can do. I can print moving parts in a closed system & unlimited color. Different hardeners can make objects very durable.... However, I haven't liked the quality it makes on large scale cars. I have made some amazing prototype concrete bridges in HO and even N scale (think of the 1920s art-deco bridges). To print out a streamlined passenger car would just be a disappointment. If the prototype is supposed to made of metal, you will see a "grain" as the layers of powder are built up when printing. 

I will keep working on perfecting modeling with my printer and will keep everyone posted. 

http://www.zcorp.com/en/Products/3D-Printers/ZPrinter-450/spage.aspx Brian,

I am very interested in learning more about your $40,000 printer. First, can you tell me which CAD system you are using to develop your STL files. I'm sure you know that the solid model you have, eventually becomes your STL file. I'm sure you must know that a STL format uses triangular shaped areas that lend themselves to forming a smoother contour as opposed to parametric surfaces used in other file formats. Is it possible to increase the tolerances on the STL format for a better blending to decrease the "grainy" of the layers. I have worked with MasterCam (for over twenty years) geometry files and converted to both solid models and parametric surfaces, to produce great 3D contours without the grain that you are getting. Tightening tolerances always got me what I needed. The "con" side being much larger file sizes and longer processing time AND longer machine time. Just very interested!


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## BrianTFowler (Sep 20, 2012)

Mine prints with a plastic powder. It prints a layer of binder with color then wipes it with a dusting of powder. It's this physical process of printing that gives those results. Once I depleat my current stash of powder I plan on upgrading to a finer grain powder. Hopefully that will help. What I can do now would definetly pass the 10 foot rule but the rivet counters would not share the same enthusiasm. 
I have the professional levels of AutoCAD, inventor, Revit, 3DMax, and SketchUp. The printer also comes with its own software to prepare files. There are actually better file formats than STL. You loose color in STL. I prefer VRML or 3DS. 

I do so want this process to work!


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Hi Brian,
At this stage I am not in the market for buying my own 3 d printer but i have several ideas about printing parts, can you give me an idea how much it would cost to 3 d print carrigas and locos?
Just a rough estimate would be great
Ta michael


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## BrianTFowler (Sep 20, 2012)

To be honest. I don't know. I am a teacher so it's free for our students but we do not do commercial work. Find a local company that does "rapid prototyping" that materials are costly. I spend about $800 annually just for supplies. But a big cost would be how much cleaning up your file would need prior to printing. I have traded services before though. Free print job in exchange for files or labor.


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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

While I haven't actually ordered a 3D print, I did go through the motions and create a figure with this: 
http://www.makehuman.org/ 

I goofed around with it in this: 
http://www.daz3d.com/shop/hexagon-2-5-download-version 

I cleaned it up and sized it with this: 
http://www.netfabb.com/ 

Then I uploaded a 3" high figure to this place for a automated quote: 
http://www.zoomrp.com/ 

As I recall, it was about $50-60 for a print, I forget which of the materials I selected. I have no idea how good the result would be, I was thinking of masters for resin casting but don't know if they would be detailed enough. Once I get a little disposable income I may try again. 

The Makehuman, Hexagon and Netfabb are free as is the quote so you can play around a bit without actually buying anything.


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## BrianTFowler (Sep 20, 2012)

Hopefully by this spring I will have my 1st class membership in place on here, and can post a bunch of pictures of what we are able to do. I happened into a job with the 3D printer, a 3D scanner, 3-CNC mills, a CNC lathe, a plastic injection machine, and Ferrari grade computers with top of the line software. Now I just need to perfect my techniques. Oh yea, I also have an endless supply of Mahogany wood scraps.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By BrianTFowler on 07 Dec 2012 07:34 AM 
Hopefully by this spring I will have my 1st class membership in place on here, and can post a bunch of pictures of what we are able to do. {snip...}[/i] Brian

So long as you have your image files stored someplace where they are accessible over the Internet (e.g. Photobucket, Flickr, Picasa, etc.) then you can include pictures within your posted replies. To learn how review the following FAQ (click hyperlink below).

MLS menu bar >> Resources menu >> FAQ >> As a Standard Member how do I use the Rich-text/HTML Editor - Including Pictures in Your Replies:[/b]


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

Following the 3D Printer technology with interest myself







; the current state of the art for home use seems to about the same stage personal computers were at @ 1980 or so (& about 3 ~ 4 feet from where I'm typing this on a modern Intel Core I5 PC sits my *1980-vintage *







*Southwest Technical Products Corp M6800 8-bit computer *







- which started life with *4K of RAM *







& I eventually expanded up to *16K! *







Never had *any *sort of disk drive on it - back when I built it, an *8" floppy drive used to sell for $600! *







- *WAY beyond my budget back then! *







- so I had to live with the persistently-balky







audio cassette interface for data storage. Used to take me *8 minutes just to load BASIC *







). Next to the modern PC (with *1.5 TB of RAID 0 internal storage, & 2 external hard drives (1.5 & 2 TB. *







) is my new *64 GB Apple iPad 4. *









Using the computer hardware comparisons to try to envision where the 3D printer tech might eventually go







- definitely *"licking my chops" *







at the concept of *"printing" my own detail parts. *I know MakerBot just opened a store in Manhattan recently; also stumbled across a video clip on this upcoming offering from *Formlabs, *headquartered in *Cambridge, MA, about an hour's drive away from me. *







Here's the link to their site, which includes the video clip: FORMlabs FORM 1 .


To quote a line from a *Carly Simon *







song... *"AN-TI-CI-PA-TION...AN-TI-CI-PAA-AA-TION!...." *







(I don't *dare *to actually sing it, I can't carry a tune in a bucket!







).







Tom


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

i think this 3D printing is fascinating. 
but... ...i can't find any offers of usefull scanners. (if one just wants to reproduce existing parts or hand made prototypes)


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

The best I've seen so far is here http://www.pacificlocomotive.com

I haven't had any contact with them or asked for any quotes yet, though.


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## bruja (Jan 7, 2008)

A 3D printer buyer's guide is now available from makezine.com. The magazine name is Make and the buyer's guide is a special issue dated Winter, 2013 (cover has note "display until Feb 20, 2013). I found it at my local Barnes and Noble bookstore for $10. It includes evaluations of 15 printers and an overview of software plus many other articles.


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## BrianTFowler (Sep 20, 2012)

One test all these articles always seem to skip over is the smoothness over long spans. I get the cool intricate fine detail stuff. But if you are trying to print sOmething that is supposed to have a surface as smooth as glass is different. I've seen some small scale stuff that looks fine, that might even pass the "10 foot" rule. The question we want answered is how far are we from brass quality 3D printing.


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