# Programming issues for ProDrive DCC



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I've been taking my first whack at programming a ProDrive DCC switch motor, and not having success yet.

Problem is, I'm not sure what version of drive I have (they're about 2 years old), and things have changed. Started with Ron B.'s step-by-step:

http://forums.mylargescale.com/39-d...-switch-progamming-observations-question.html

But, I couldn't get "decoder version 10" to ever show up.

Next, I found Greg E's nice video,

http://elmassian.com/trains/track-aamp-switches/train-li

And tracked along with it. But, the thing never seemed to accept the short address or otherwise communicate. 

The board has the deep blue conformal coating like that one Greg's video, but perhaps I still need to add the "load bulb" (hadn't done that yet). So, off to Radio Shack I guess, more later.

CJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, as time has gone on, they seem to get harder and harder to program.

My procedure worked for a while on the units, but the last one I got I could not program.

I know that the Train-Li people manage to program them, but my NCE system has all 3 official "modes" and I don't want anything that is this difficult.

Send the units back to Train-Li and have them programmed the way you want.

Regards, Greg


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## RIrail (May 5, 2008)

Hi Cliff, I saw Greg's site (thanks for doing all that work Greg) and read about what he had to go though to get them programed. I was very close to buying the Train Li Pro Drives but between the water resistance issues and the programming, I went with the separate Piko switch machine and the NCE Switch Kat.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Ugh. I hear ya Rlrail. And Greg, I'll echo his thanks for all the work you put into this product. But sheesh, what a moving target. There is no mention of any of this in the "User Guide," yet the machines are said to be "Compatible with all DCC systems." 

Should have mentioned, I began using power from Program Track output from the NCE, But that didn't make the machine chatter as seen in your video. So I tried both the procedures powering it from the main track output. Still no difference. 

BTW, I just added the load bulb, and no diff with either method or powering means. As Ron mentioned in his thread, the bulb didn't illuminate at all, which I thought odd.

Final note, Greg I see that you uploaded your video on 4/25/11, and I bought my machines over 2 years later (July 2013). 

I may be forced to control these things with the Digitrax DS64 or NCE SwitchIt or Switch Mark 8. I wasn't wanting the extra boxes or cables though. 

I wrote all this up and just sent it to Axel, hopefully he'll have straightforward solution. 

Cliff


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have programmed many of these at Train-Li and the newer ones do not need the load. I do use the Zimo system and I have not had problems getting the lights to work.

The older units which were DCC only did need a load, the newer DC/DCC do not.

I do not have access to a NCE system to try it.

Also, the addressing is as follows:
CV1=1 address is 1, F0
CV1=2 address is 1, F1
CV1=3 address is 1. F2
CV1=4 address is 1. F3


CV1=5 address is 2. F0
CV1=6 address is 2. F1
CV1=7 address is 2. F2
CV1=8 address is 2. F3

CV1=9 address is 3, F0
CV1=10 address is 3, F1
CV1=11 address is 3. F2
CV1=12 address is 3. F3

CV1=13 address is 4. F0
CV1=14 address is 4. F1
CV1=15 address is 4. F2
CV1=16 address is 4. F3

On my older DCC only it was different as follows:

CV1=5 address is 2. F0/F1
CV1=6 address is 2. F2/F3
CV1=7 address is 2. F4/F5
CV1=8 address is 2. F6/F7

This may be unique to my pro-drive and your results could be different.

Also, I programmed CV35 for the light.

I will be at Train-Li Tuesday and can try more experiments as there should be newer drives there.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hi Dan,

My problem is that I can't get it into DCC mode at all (seems to be stuck in DC mode). Though I have the newer DC/DCC drives, the literature still says that I should put on the load bulb if I have problems, but it's having no effect that I can see.

Thanks for the further info though, and any further clues you discover,
Cliff


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Greg, 

I was wondering if my programming track output was working properly, but all I can do is measure the voltage (through a bridge rectifier), which measures 2.4v regular, 2.6v in program track mode. Does that sound normal? Or all hosed up? I was expecting similar (~21v) output, but I don't know beans about it.

The reason I ask is that when the machine is hooked up to the program track output, and before I put the system into "Use Programming Track" mode, there isn't any chatter on the machine; just stillness and silence. Unlike as in your video, where the machine was chattering away at that point. Same with 4 different machines.

Axel just got back with me, and says your video method should work (no bulb), except that NCE has problems... So I'll send the machines in, for his programming.

I'm hoping that once they are in DCC mode that I'll be able to change their CV's down the line. And that nothing will ever kick them back into DC mode, requiring me to send them back in. Thoughts?

CJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's the pro-drive... NCE has been used by thousands of people and meets NMRA standards.

The pro-drive does NOT, there is a situation where it wants a brief power interruption between programming commands. This is NOT in the NMRA spec, but it's an old "habit" of European systems.

I don't have time too fool with stuff that only works on one MFG's system, clearly it does NOT meet NMRA standards.

Like I said, it used to work with the lamp... then the next generation worked differently, but I found a way around it, but the third version I can't do reliably.

When it can only be programmed by one system, not the rest, how is it that the problem is all the systems it does not work on. Sorry, I like Dan, Axel, and most Train-Li products, but blaming this on the NCE system is B**$$it

I have several here, have spent extensive time working with them, no more.

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Well, I'm relieved to hear it wasn't my PowerHouse or other NCE gear, thanks for the confirmation Greg.

Got my machines packed up to go to TL, it's my only choice at this point. I agree, I don't like it that compatibility is being lost over time, not improved; and that NCE wasn't accounted for in product revisions. 

Axel did assure me of the two concerns I still had. That the machine wouldn't flip back over to DC mode (e.g., somehow go back to factory defaults), and that I'd have control over programming subsequently. So, in theory, I'd need to request this pre-programming to DCC at time of purchase, and things would be the same -- except for not being able to have a choice between DC & DCC. Strikes me as odd. And I think Axel should be sure to ask customers if they're using NCE / DCC, just in case they don't know.

Also, more documentation would be nice...

Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just to be clear, the programming sequence required does not meet NMRA specifications. You won't find many systems that will program these, and they will all be european, I believe early MTS or the "motorola" spec did this trick.

I've used this trick to sometimes succeed, but nothing as mundane as a switch machine controller should be such a pain in the butt to program, it's such a simple controller, there is no excuse to make it incompatible with normal DCC programming.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

CliffyJ, mske sure you let us know what the address needs to be on these prodrives.

I will place a sticker on each if you have not yet done so with the address I program.

With the Zimo system and the new drives I have never had to add a load, others may have different results.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Greg, I agree. 

Thanks Dan, they went out today, should be there Wednesday. I requested addresses 1 thru 7 (there are seven of them), so just please label them per what you program them for.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I received the programmed ProDrive switch machines a couple days ago, and they checked out just fine. Thanks Axel!

I also hooked up a new SwitchKat to a new Piko switch machine, following the instructions carefully. I applied the power, and a chip in the center of the SK went up in flames (literally). Welcome to Cliffy's Smoke Shop. 

These are supposed to work with LGB machines, which the Piko appears to be a knock-off of. So, I sent an inquiry to NCE, asking for advice. Anyway, I'd definitely vote for the Digitrax controller at this point, if using Piko's!


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

I just connected a new PIKO switch with a SwitchKat and it works great so far, no fire or flames. I am trying out the PIKO's to see how they hold up. They look like they are built well.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for the testimonial Kenny. I'm having my switchkat repaired (replaced). Maybe my experience was a fluke. Or involved a mistake on my end that I'm not seeing yet. And I agree, the Piko's seem very sturdy and well sealed. 

Having said that, I'm still working with the ProDrives, because of their built-in DCC, socket for local pushbuttons and provision for led indication. But carry on Kenny, and post your findings!


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

I will let you know how I make out with the PIKOs. So far so good. Now I want to try it with the supplementary switch contacts. The LGB set up worked but usually required some attention to work well. I like the LGB setup but the PIKO is impressive in its construction. I will let you know how I make out. As far as SK, I have used them and they have performed well. Could just be a fluke like you said and if you hear anything from NCE that indicates a compatibility problem, please let me know. I have not tried the PIKO on my DIGITRAX switch controller yet.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Kenny. . I didn't receive any response from NCE (and I never have when emailing them --- that's their real weak point). But if/when I get the switchkat back, and since you've had success, I'll repeat the hookup and report on that. And please feel free to post here on your further findings.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I find that calling NCE on the phone, or posting on their Yahoo forum works.

Email does not always.

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Greg, you prodded me to check for a response to my question on the NCE list. I have a hard time remembering to check back when I post a question there. And sure enough, Mark Gurries had answered my question, so good deal.


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