# Questions about DCC



## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I am becoming disillusioned with G scale and have decided to buy a Bachmann on30 Forney equipped with DCC Sound.

I have never looked at this forum because I had no reason to since my G scale stuff was batttery operated. So, now I have questions that have probably been answered before but here goes:

1. What is the basic items I would need to run a DCC railroad? My planned railroad will be about 10 feet long by 3 feet wide with a four foot extension at each end so I can make a loop of track.

2. Do I need a separate power source in addition to the DCC equipment?

3. Can this railroad be wired very simply? Do I need to worry about insulated turnouts, blocks, reversing tracks? I would like eventually to run 2 trains at the same time.

4. What has been this forum's experrience with the various DCC options available and can anyone give me some suggestions on a starter set? I would like to have sound, speed conrol, whistle, bell and other options available using a system that does not require a master's degree in electronics to operate.

I am still serving a mission for our church in Germany and will not be back home until April of next year so I have plenty of time to think about all of this.

I will probably have a listing of engines, rolling stock and track for sale at that time.

Thanks for the help.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I think that you're asking about track-powered DCC. 

If that's the case, you need a decoder-quipped loco (which you have) and a DCC command station/booster. Depending on what DCC setup you buy, you may also need a separate power supply. The power supply will provide power to the command station/booster--some starter sets provide this in the package.

Part of the point of DCC is that it eliminates the need for fancy wiring (blocks and the rest). Essentially, you'll wire up the system to the track using two wires (one for the right rail, one for the left) and that's it. You will need a reversing module for any reversing loops you have. These are also easy to wire as they are microprocessor controlled.

I have an NCE system that I'm pretty happy with. Whether you will be OK with a starter set partly depends on which locos you will be running. If they have a high power draw, you may need something larger than what most starter sets provide.

I'm sure the more experienced guys will have lots more to add.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I haven't actually bought any On30 engines yet, but I am looking at the Bachmann Forney and the 4-6-0 which both have sound and are DCC Compatible.

What did you mean by a reversing module? I have not seen anything like that advertized on Wholesale Trains.

Also, some of the DCC systems have the power source built in, is that right? What are the advantages of that beyond the obvious? Would a system like that (self contained) be more cost effective over buying a simpler system with a separate power source?


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Well, a reversing module is needed because of the polarity of the reversed section. If you trace the track around a reversing section, at some point the "outside" rail will come back and be on the opposite side of where it started (on the non-reversing section). This page (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm) has good info.

The advantage of a provided power supply is that you buy one thing (a starter set) and you're done. The disadvantage is that the provided power supply might not have enough power to run multiple, high-draw trains.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

JB, what part of Germany are you in?

If possible, drop in to see Sven at Champex-Linden in Dormagen--he's an extremely nice and knowledgeable guy and can show you his shop that runs a large layout using the Massoth system. I use Massoth (as do all the DCC guys in our club) and it is one of the best and hence most popular systems used in Europe. Zimo is also excellent and their newest system is even compatible with the Massoth Navigator handheld since it's so popular. Go to the Massoth website and have a look at their manuals which should give you a good idea what they are capable of, and if possible go see it in person at one of the many clubs and dealers in Germany. 
There are quite a few good options for you depending on how much you want to spend, but I look at a DCC system the way I look at a good tool--it might seem expensive at the time, but everytime I use it, it works well and brings a smile to my face.

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

jbwilcox said:


> I am becoming disillusioned with G scale and have decided to buy a Bachmann on30 Forney equipped with DCC Sound.
> 
> I have never looked at this forum because I had no reason to since my G scale stuff was batttery operated. So, now I have questions that have probably been answered before but here goes:
> 
> ...


Regards, Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Greg,

Your answers are always complete and informative.

I will have to do some research on these systems.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You are welcome, and feel free to peruse my site on DCC, it's one of the main menu items on the top of the home page.

Greg


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

jbwilcox said:


> I am becoming disillusioned with G scale and have decided to buy a Bachmann on30 Forney equipped with DCC Sound.
> 
> I have never looked at this forum because I had no reason to since my G scale stuff was batttery operated. So, now I have questions that have probably been answered before but here goes:
> 
> ...


Being in Germany you have a unique opportunity to try at shows several very progressive DCC systems. The best show for doing this is the one in the spring in Dortmund. The US manufacturers also make some very fine DCC systems which you can compare.

For decoders the European brands tend to have better motor control.

For a system I might recommend to start with the Bachmann EZ DCC system. Very inexpensive and it will allow you to get your feet wet. Then when you outgrow it you can sell it for close to what you bought it for and get a more advanced system that meets your specific needs.

Hope that helps

Stan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

When (and if) you outgrow your NCE starter set, you can STILL use the throttles...

And you are never running a "junior type" system with limited capability.

I don't have any stock in NCE, but I think the Bachmann is a mistake.

Us train guys don't really buy stuff to resell in general.

I see the complete NCE PowerCab on ebay for about $150, Bachmann for about $120

Greg


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> When (and if) you outgrow your NCE starter set, you can STILL use the throttles...
> 
> And you are never running a "junior type" system with limited capability.
> 
> ...


Greg

True you can see high prices on Ebay for just about anything as well as low prices.

You should be able to purchase an EZ Command system for around $50-60. At that price it is excellent as a starter system to get your feet wet and understand what you are looking for.

For Large Scale such a system does not have adequate amperage and you need to purchase a additional power station which raises it price considerably. But for On30 starting out a low cost starting option is a very good idea.

Stan

PS All systems out there have strong points and week points. The best system is one that is best for your needs. What is best for you may not work well for me. That is why it is so important to try out alternatives.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I understand that you can find it cheaper, although I think you are quoting used prices, the Bachmann system is list price $180.

I really dislike recommending fundamental parts of a layout that are cheap or limited.

You will only have one DCC system, programming CV's without a screen to read back is a poor choice in my opinion, and runs the great risk of unnecessarily souring a new person on a technology that can be easy and fun.

Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I am serving at Baumholder with the Army. We are not allowed to leave the area of our mission which extends up to Dortmund in the north. I do not have a lot of free time, we usually are free on Mondays to do what we want.

I thought that the Bachmann On30 Forney already had a decoder in it since is is DCC ready and has sound. Am I all screwed up?

I will do some chhecking on the NCE system and I will look at Greg's site.

Does anyone have any experience with the Bachmann On30 Forney or the 4-6-0 engines? I am sure there are people on this site that also model in other scales.

I am not completely giving up G scale, just down sizing a little. I will still run some trains outside - the On30 idea will be for the winter when it is raining cats and dogs in the Seattle area.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Most DCC systems do not have the power supply included in the command station due to these are sold in many countries and the power can be 110 like the USA or 220 like Europe.
There are sets sold that have everything you would need....power source, command station, handheld.
Then there is the optional radio controlled handheld.

There is a cost related to performance /ease of use.
I have a very old LGB MTS I system with a mouse and a 2 year old can use it.
I also have a Zimo MX1 which is very high tech and expensive and if you can not program a cable remote then this system may not be for you.
And there is all the rest in between.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

jbwilcox said:


> I thought that the Bachmann On30 Forney already had a decoder in it since is is DCC ready and has sound. Am I all screwed up?


"DCC ready" usually does not mean a decoder is installed. It means that the locomotive has a plug-in interface for a decoder so that one can be installed easily, without modification to the locomotive. I suspect this is the case with your loco. If you have the locomotive in your possession, it should be easy enough to crack it open and take a peek inside. Alternatively, when you get a DCC system, you could attempt to read the decoder and have a pretty good idea whether there's one or not.

One thing I forgot to mention that you might consider: I have a SPROG DCC "system" that I use with JMRI to read and write decoders on my workbench. I think I bought it (including the 3A power supply) for ~$120. I really like having it for programming decoders, as the JMRI interface gives a pretty complete description of a lot of CV setting values. So I didn't have to look up which CV to set at which value to get the strobe lights on my track cleaning loco to alternate--strobe A on function 4 and strobe B on function 5 were choices in the menu. Something else to think about.

P.S: In the 80's, I spent several winters in Germany (mostly Grafenwoehr) and didn't care for the weather. That might have to do with sleeping outside in the snow  But it was a really cool country to visit when we could get away and see the sights. I bought my first Z scale train from a shop in Berlin on the Kurfürstendamm when I was doing a training rotation at the Berlin Brigade's MOUT outpost there. Hope you're having "fun"


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm going to take some exception to your statement Dan, about the 2 year old.

If you are just talking speed and direction, most systems are easy, but I would still argue without a screen on a throttle, or some indicator, you don't know what loco you are running.

Also, most people have to set a CV some time in their life and I submit that is VERY tough for most people without a screen.

So, no, these systems I most emphatically do NOT recommend for someone starting out. Look at the huge snafu a long time, experienced member has had with trying to run LGB decoders and a mix of controllers.

It's no longer the 1980's when you had to accept whatever was available.

Would you buy a smart phone and run an app with no graphics but just a DOS like command line? No, of course.

You can get a system with top of the line capability at about $150, why try to save $20 or $30 and add more difficulty? I'm not pimping NCE, but show me a better solution for someone new to the hobby and is not a DCC expert.

Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

We have been here for one winter in which we got some snow, about 8 inches was the most at any one time. The weather is damp and it was pretty cold - down into the low teens. This summer has been beautiful. we have had a chance to go out and see many cathedrals and castles along the Mosel River. We live in an area of small villages scattered around the rolling hills (not really mountains) with open pasture land, hay fields, wheat fields, lots of corn and in the spring time Rapaseed.

So here are the specifications of the engine i* PLAN TO PURCHASE*! Note: I do not have it yet, not until I get back to the US.

It seems to me that it does have a decoder included with it or am I misinterpreting what it is telling me?

If anyone has had any experience with this engine, I would like to know how the quality of the sound is and anything else they might be able to share.

Maybe Mr Stanley Ames the Bachmann Expert can enter into this conversation and give me some additional details on this engine.

*Remember, this is an On30 Engine, not Large Scale!* I mention that because sometimes people get excited and do not clearly read the entire post before answering.

*Features include:
• DCC sound-equipped
• dual-mode NMRA-compliant decoder*
• flywheel drive
• idler gear box
• die-cast frame, boiler, and cab
• machined, blackened wheels
• wood cab and steel cab versions
• additional die-cast detail parts
• easy-to-install options, including:
three headlight/backup light styles (oil, acetylene, electric)
three stack styles (cap, Rushton, tapered)
three fuel loads (wood, coal, oil) included with each model
• E-Z Mate ® Mark II couplers

*Decoder features include:*
*• authentic sound effects uniquely appropriate to each model
• three whistles to choose from in each model
• real-time whistle for creating authentic signals
• high-quality 16-bit digital sound
• advanced motor control features, including load compensation and silent drive to provide smooth, quiet operation
• supports all recognized programming methods*

This model performs best on 18" radius curves or greater.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe it is not a good quality decoder?


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

jbwilcox said:


> Maybe it is not a good quality decoder?


It looks to me from what you posted the loco in question does come fitted with a decoder. So that's a good start. I once bought an LGB "DCC Ready" loco on the assumption that ready=equipped. Quite a disappointment


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## MikeMcL (Apr 25, 2013)

Greg Elmassian said:


> programming CV's without a screen to read back is a poor choice in my opinion, and runs the great risk of unnecessarily souring a new person on a technology that can be easy and fun.
> 
> Greg


Whatever system you decide on, I highly recommend the free software from JMRI, and the free Android app throttle from JMRI (also available for iCrap, but only free to control one train at a time, otherwise $10, I think). If you choose a system and buy an interface to a PC, you can easily program CVs in English, and the smart phone app is so much easier than anyone's handheld throttle, again in plain English. You will have unlimited free wireless throttles with your cell phone, old smart phones,and/or your friends phones. This is assuming you have a wifi network already!

Here is the link www.jmri.org BTW, I use Digitrax, not the easiest to understand, so the JMRI software made my life a whole lot easier!


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe I am getting in over my head. I wanted a system where I would not have to worry about complicated or hardly any wiring. I thought DCC would fit that bill. Now I hear I would still have to wire for a reversing loop.

I seem to have read that some of the DCC systems automatically take care of the electronics on the reversing loop so I would not have to do any special wiring.

My layout will be small, so I will probably operate switches by hand unless they can easily be wired up. I guess I should make that decision before i buy switches, either get manual or remote.

I do not have a smart phone and probably would not know how to use one if I did. 

Sounds like I should get at least a 5 Amp power supply for my engines. 

I am stil so new to this concept that I do not even know the correct questions I should be asking. Still a lot of reading to do.

Thanks everyone for the help so far. 

I hope you will continue to help increase my knowledge.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

jbwilcox said:


> Maybe I am getting in over my head. I wanted a system where I would not have to worry about complicated or hardly any wiring. I thought DCC would fit that bill. Now I hear I would still have to wire for a reversing loop.


This is essentially true (the not complicated part, not the over your head part). As Greg mentioned, you isolate the reversing loop and it's a two-wire connection. The reverser handles the "short circuit" and there's nothing you need to do. In my book that's still easier than the old fashioned way of using blocks and switches.

You have lots of time to read up on all this before you decide what to do. There's no reason to jump in if you're in the middle of a deployment--and sometimes the planning/anticipation stage is half the fun anyway, right? 

Along with Greg's site, I highly recommend Alan Gartner's Wiring for DCC site. His DCC intro page is a good place to start (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm)


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

While I am not a Bachmann expert, I do know a little about DCC. (wrote the book so to speak)

I have several ON30 locomotives and what I found is that Bachmann sells ON30 locomotives that are a royal pain to put DCC in, On30 locomotives with a DCC socket that you simply plug in your favorite decoder, Sound ready locomotives with a DCC decoder which will accept a sound module and DCC sound equipped ones which have a DCC sound decoder.

I have the one you list and it has a OEM Soundtraxx decoder. 

Once you can get your hand on a variety of systems and decoders you find ones you like and ones you find complicated and unfriendly to use. That is a very personnel decision and I highly recommend you do not purchase one that you have not used.

What I have always recommended is that you go to a show, and get instructions on how to use the system. Then leave the booth and several hours later go back. If you can not without instructions select a locomotive and run it the system is likely not for you. Most of the WWW sites out there are very biased in favor of the perfect system which is most always the system that the writer chose for their use.

Doing a non biased review is rather hard. I know as we included a whole section on DCC systems in our DCC book and it took a lot of work to get all the manufacturers at the time to sign it.

If you are still in Europe in April I highly recommend attending Intermodellbau in Dortmund. It is one of the worlds best shows and a great learning experience. All the major players in the European market will be there along with over 100,000 attendees.

Hope that helps.

Stan


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Riderdan, I will look at that website. I will also read up on some of the systems available.

Stanley -- I always thought that you were the Bachmann! 

I do not understand. One time you say it is a pain in the you know what to put a decoder in a Bachmann engine and then the very next sentence you say you have this engine and it has a decoder.

Does the decoder come separately and you have to install it or is it already installed in the engine is my question.

I have also seen a video that states if you have DCC you cannot run a non DCC engine on your layout because you will short the system and destroy your DCC equipment.

So that would obviously limit me on the engines I could buy, although I probably would never have more than 2 or three at the most.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

jbwilcox said:


> Thanks, Riderdan, I will look at that website. I will also read up on some of the systems available.
> 
> Stanley -- I always thought that you were the Bachmann!
> 
> ...


 No I am definitely not The Bachmann now do I work for Bachmann. I mostly model in Fn3 and do consult on some projects for Bachmann as well as several other manufacturers from time to time.

Sorry I confused you. I will try again. There are many locomotives in the market and the answer to how easy it is to install a DCC decoder varies greatly.

For example in On30 Bachmann has produced a 2-6-0 for years. It is very difficult to put a DCC decoder in this locomotive. Bachmann has just announced a new 2-6-0 that comes equipped with a DCC decoder and has the option to plug in a sound module. Same locomotive different production dates. When you purchase a locomotive it is best to ensure that the version is the one you desire.

The locomotive you posted the spec for has a Soundtraxx OEM DCC sound decoder installed.

I would love to see that video. It would be good for a few laughs. The internet is full of false and or misleading information. While some DCC systems can not run DC locomotives, many DCC systems can run both DC and DCC locomotives at the same time no problem. I suspect the video is about a layout that has both a DC and a DCC system in separate blocks on the same layout. When a locomotive crosses a block between a section of the layout controlled by DC to one controlled by DCC the systems are electrically connected and not all DC or DCC control system combinations like it. 

I really recommend starting simple with a very entry level DCC system. Get you feet wet. Enjoy your trains and then when you have more experience and first hand knowledge you can upgrade to a ore advanced system that fits exactly what you desire.

Stan


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

So on a rather small layout, could the NCE system run both DC and DCC equiped locos?

Also, I may be wrong, but it seems like I either read or saw a video stating that some of the DCC systems will automatically handle the reversing loop problem which would eliminate the trouble of special wiring.

How do most of you handle reversing loops when using DCC?


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

jbwilcox said:


> So on a rather small layout, could the NCE system run both DC and DCC equiped locos?
> 
> Also, I may be wrong, but it seems like I either read or saw a video stating that some of the DCC systems will automatically handle the reversing loop problem which would eliminate the trouble of special wiring.
> 
> How do most of you handle reversing loops when using DCC?


Each system has advantages and disadvantages.

The NCE system is one of the very few that does not support operating DC equipped locomotives.

Reverse loops are not a problem. You simply obtain a reverse loop module which is system independent.

The reverse loop is electrically isolated at each end and is connected to the reverse loop module.

While it is our of date in regards to systems. "The comprehensive guide to DCC" is still one of the very few non biased books out there. it might be worth a read.

Stan


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

So if you had a Wye for reversing engines, would you need three reversing loop modules or would just one do the job?

I have looked for information on how these things work but have not found any information.

I found an LGB unit listed for 33 dollars on Trainworld. Is that about what I should expect to pay?

Are there other manufacturers for these things and do they all work the same?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One reversing section, one section insulated from the others. One autoreverser.

Look up "wiring for DCC" book.

Regards, Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I have found the NCE Powerhouse Pro Plus 5 Amp System listed as "Buy it Now" on Ebay for about 350.00 then I have to also buy a power supply at a cost of about 60.00

That is a lot more than the 150.00 several people have mentioned for the starter set. 

Am I looking at a different item?

I have never bought from Ebay before so my question is: Is the "Buy it Now" price the actual selling price of the item? If the bids are less than that will they sell it? Are they hoping they can get more by selling it at auction? How many people use the "Buy it Now" option when buying on Ebay?


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Check out this listing on eBay. Item # 131604818930

It is $191+13 shipping as of 12:30 am pst with 18 hours to go. 

The 2 amp model has 1 for $125. then add a booster and you have a much more powerfull system.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been recommending the PowerCab, not the PowerPro...

see the NCE website for the models.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, the LGB mouse has a slider/tab that has 8 positions for locos 1-8, a speed/reversing control and a button to press for the light.
All LGB locos shipped set to 14 speed steps and serial operation plus ran out of the box on (visible) mouse selection 3. Locos in the MTS sets were on address 2 and 4.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I got that Dan, but this thread is about a new to DCC person getting his first system, and in On3. The NCE PowerCab seems ideal, and is orders of magnitude better than the LGB.

I'm not sure why you brought up the LGB system, it's not in the running at all here from my perspective, and I surely did not suggest it, so I'm curious why you named me in your response.

Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I am totally confused now.

I looked up NCE Powercab and I can find it on EBay but the two train sites I looked at I could not find it listed. It was only a 2 amp system. I thought it was recommended that I get at least the 5 amp system.

Then i typed in NCE Powerhouse Pro Plus 5 amp system and it took me to the same Ebay pages for the above.

Also, did anyone see my questions about buying from Ebay? I didn't get any response yet.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's 3 amp, and can be expanded inexpensively to 5.

I'd start there. Now, if you don't mind spending a bit more, a used PowerHouse 5 amp system could be a good answer.

It's all up to you. Most people get hung up on spending the least they can, which I think is the wrong priority.

Notice that almost all the responses have not been based on functionality, expandability, quality, but just price?

Gereg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I have noticed that.

I might be interested in the Powerhorse model as long as it does not complicate things too much.

I don't know how to buy it on Ebay. Is it cheaper to buy on Ebay or through someplace like Wholesale trains or Trainworld?

I registered with them sometime years ago but forgot what I used for a user name and password.

So now when I try to log on it doesn't recognize anything. I have even called my niece who works for Ebay and she has not been able to resolve the problem.

I still have plenty of time to consider all my options. 

My wife gets mad at me because when I buy something I always want the most expensive version like buying a car I am not satisfied with a reasonable version, I have to have the top of the line with all the bells and whistles that I will probably never use but they are still there! Sounds nuts, right?

I am beginning to realize that my small On30 railroad is going to cost me a bundle before I am done, but then it is only money, right?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I've shown you a complete 3 amp system for $200 list price, and $150 on sale, and it has all the capability you could ever use, so it does not need to cost an arm and a leg.

If you buy a used 5 amp system, the PowerPro system, you can get pretty close to that price and will have a system you can use for years, and later expand to wireless throttles.

So, no, you will not have to pay an arm and a leg, and other than track, your control system is the most fundamental part of your railroad.

Greg


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but do you have a dealer that you have had good experience with Greg? 

Thanks
Matt


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Matt Vogt said:


> Not wanting to hijack the thread, but do you have a dealer that you have had good experience with Greg?
> 
> Thanks
> Matt


Reindeer Pass sells the NCE system. As another concurrent thread mentioned, fair prices and great service.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I try to buy everything from RLD and Kidman first. Many of my friends are very dollar conscious and the NCE equipment is very solid and their support is good, so I tell those people to go ahead and shop around. 

To me, good customer service is much more important than saving $10 on something I will use for 10 years.

Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I will check all these sources for the NCE system.

Still wondering, is it better to use the "Buy it Now" option on Ebay or to participate in the auction. And will they sell the item if the final bid is below the "Buy it Now" price?

Some one with Ebay experience should hopefully be able to answer those questions.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Buy it now or wait til auction ends depends on how much you really want the item.
Sometimes bidding goes above the buy it now price.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok -- I admit I am somewhat of a technological idiot but here is what I have found:

I looked up RLD Hobbies on Google, went to their site and found no listing for NCE systems on the left side.

I looked up Kidman hobbies on Google and I was directed to Nicole Kidman Hobbies -- interesting, but not really trains if you know what I mean. There were no other significant entries for Kidman that would lead me to a hobby shop.

I looked up Reindeer Pass and I found a hobby store (Hooray!) but there were only about 3 listings for NCE stuff and one was for the Power Pro starter set at 360 and still needed a power supply.

i do find the NCE system on Ebay for anywhere from 137-197 for what appears to be the same item. These are the "Buy it Now" prices.

Why would I pay 197 when just a couple of items below for the exact same item it is listed for 137?

Does that mean that the bid has gone up to 197 for the one item and is at only 137 for the other and if I really really wanted it I could stop the auction and pay either the 197 or the 137 and get the item immediately without bidding on it?

I guess I still have not made my question about the Buy it Now thing on Ebay clear but I have not gotten any really good explanations on how it works. I have actually never bought anything on Ebay so I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW IT WORKS!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have bought a number of times from Litchfield station.

https://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/home.php?cat=280

I can recommend them and their customer service.

I have to apologize, apparently the system has been re-rated to 2 amps. Maybe they are providing a smaller power supply? Mine is 3 amps.

https://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/product.php?productid=999007619&cat=39&page=1
That is the 5 amp booster that will work with the PowerCab, and it includes the power supply.

Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

jbwilcox said:


> Ok -- I admit I am somewhat of a technological idiot but.................
> 
> I guess I still have not made my question about the Buy it Now thing on Ebay clear but I have not gotten any really good explanations on how it works. I have actually never bought anything on Ebay so I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HOW IT WORKS!


This might help you understand how "Buy It Now" works........

A few years ago, Garden Metal Products (the maker of those beautiful catwalks for bridges) suddenly went out of business. Their website wasn't updated and it seemed like the catwalks and bridges were not going to be available again. Then about two years ago, Paul Burch (MLS member) emailed me that the owner of Garden Metal Products was selling some bridges and catwalks on eBay on a "Buy It Now" basis. NO bidding involved, just BIN for the price given. The seller mentioned that he had many, many sets of brand new catwalks available for sale. Paul and I bought every set he had available! We bought them at the price he asked..........no quibbling about price. These were very difficult or next to impossible to get at the time for ANY price. His price was around $30 per 24 inch set and that was the price he had asked when he was selling through his website years before. Anyway, we purchased about $800 worth of stuff from him. We still have them in storage now. 

In this particular case, the items were only sold as BIN. Other sellers might have bidding and BIN. If you can't wait and just to have it now without the bidding, then go with BIN. Otherwise just bid and take your chances. I've seen some things go for a HIGHER price in bidding, than if you just did BIN.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

That makes a little more sense. If I could ever straighten out my Ebay account so I could actually log in and try to purchase something, I would test it out.

Thanks for the replay


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

Do you think the 2 amp version will be powerful enough to handle 2 locos and lights at the same time?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

probably, but it could be close... LEDs don't take much. the motors should be under an amp each.

I have to find out why the rating changed from 3 amps to 2 amps.

Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

This place has some pretty good deals on NCE DCC items and most have free shipping.

http://www.hogtrainz.com/NCE.htm


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, brand new PowerCab system for $137, use that for a while, and if you need to go to 5 amps, then buy the SB5 booster for $154 and add a power supply.

You can start out inexpensively, remember that the $137 is a FULL FEATURED system with the top of the line cab with the 2 line LCD readout. I don't think there is an entry level system anywhere near that price that has that top of the line capability.

Greg


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

Did you find out why they changed from 3 to 2 amps on the NCE System?

I am pretty well committed to buying that when I finally get back to the U.S.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have not yet, perhaps you could email NCE or maybe post on their Yahoo forum, it might be a good idea to get on their forum and get accquainted, also you might find a lot more answers there just by reading the old posts.

Regards, Greg


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