# Crossing existing concrete



## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Thinking about an extension where I would have to cross an existing concrete drive. With daily traffic, I'm trying to decide on the best method. I've seen those support roadbeds but that is not something I think will be good long term. I don't want to have to cut a wide recess for traditional track and ties as I'm not sure that would be durable with car traffic. Has anyone every done this and what was your experience?

One option I am think about is using a saw to cut 2 parallel slits, wide and deep enough to just lay the rail so it's right at or slightly below the concrete. Then cement epoxy the rail in the grove. Obviously I will not then have ties so I have to keep the lines set just right to keep the gauge. Not sure just how well the cement epoxy will hold. All input appreciated.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Stan Cedarleaf did that, cutting the grooves in a drive, but then I have old brains...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I've read about it being done, but the rail was set in cement not glue. I would suggest using Stainless Steel rail and set it at grade with the driveway, railhead smooth with the rest, so no train parts hang up on it. Clean out the flange way and leave the rest solid. Set the rail on bits of stone or tile so the cement flows around the rail foot.
You probably could substitute SS angle or another shape. I wouldn't use a plain strip, I don't know the effects the weight of a car or truck will impart, but I'd guess the strip will work loose with seasonal temps and impacts.
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I assume you're not doing rail power Mickey? This is crazy and expensive, but here goes. Starting with a 2.5" x .38" SS flat bar, a machine shop can mill a groove down the center, .25 deep x 1.772 wide. They can also drill and countersink every foot for, say, #12 flat heads. Then comes the sawing of a 2.5" x .38" in the 'crete, followed by plastic anchors and screws.

But like I said, expensive. Probably the most pricey way to get the bar is from this place, but I'd look locally.
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=606&step=4&showunits=inches&id=26&top_cat=1

An aluminum bar, 1/2 x 3 for better stiffness, would be a lot cheaper. From this same place, 12' for $84.
https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1170&step=4&showunits=inches&id=997&top_cat=60

Different approach, like John was suggesting, is to get SS angles; say, 1"x1"x1/4", 4 sticks at 6', for $120. Again, one would buy local, but this site is good for a comparative price check.
https://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=4&step=4&showunits=inches&id=3&top_cat=1

Then have a local machine shop cut them down, and drill / countersink. 

Cliff


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Alan needs to jump in here.. but I know he's behind the wheel somewhere.. on a trip.

He had some plastic strip sheet custom cut... grooves for rail I thin only.. goes across his bridge walkway..
Now... it can be found on his layout thread..
And the product has been discussed here previously..

I can't set a link to Alans layout..
I don't remememember the product name..
I'm clearly ... clearly .. gitt'n oldt!!

That's all I know...


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Cliffy, the issue I have with your method is grinding out a 2 1/2" wide path. Too much work and too permenant some day when sell property. I'm thinking along the line of a 1/4" wide and 3/8" deep then move over the 45mm and cut another line. That way if I later pulled up, not a major blemish (would almost look like an expansion joint), etc. maybe I'm thinking too simplistic. In fact, drill holes thru the bottom flange at an angle and 'spike' them along with the epoxy. For now I am DC but I think I'm heading to battery eventually. I can't imaging the brass not being able to stand up, especially if I ever so slightly recess it. Not enough to cause engine/stock to catch.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

the easiest way could be to use two "U" formed iron bars of about 1/2" height. screw them down upon the concrete, then fill the space between them with some concrete.
when moving, unscrew and hammer away the concrete.
if you want to do it perfect, screw som wooden angles to the outside of the "U" bars.
the U-bars should have enough thickness to give sufficient electricity.
(sand away the rust now and then)


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

SD90WLMT said:


> Alan needs to jump in here.. but I know he's behind the wheel somewhere.. on a trip.
> 
> He had some plastic strip sheet custom cut... grooves for rail I thin only.. goes across his bridge walkway..
> Now... it can be found on his layout thread..
> ...


It's a Split-Jaw product.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't think you will find the existing concrete to be uniform enough to be fitted precisely with grooves to hold individual rails just below the surface. Works fine in the real world of full sized trains, but the roughness of the concrete in the miniature world is out of scale and would be as mountains to the scale loco on scale rail. Even if you were to grind the path to a smooth surface, concrete can heave in weather changes that would damage "toy" rail embedded in the concrete.

Either cut a deep enough and wide enough groove to float the track in below the surface of the concrete, or place the track on the surface of the drive and build a ramp on each side to carry full sized automobile traffic over it. The ramp could be a 1x4 with a major bevel (30° ?) along the edge away from the track and use concrete adhesive to hold it down (wood is more forgiving flex-wise than scale rail and is cheaper to replace).

Either way, drive slowly in the area, don't steer the vehicle in that area (might pull on the track if the tires are on it when turning) and resist the urge to "burn rubber" while in the driveway!


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## Greg Hunter (Jun 25, 2013)

mickey said:


> Thinking about an extension where I would have to cross an existing concrete drive. With daily traffic, I'm trying to decide on the best method. I've seen those support roadbeds but that is not something I think will be good long term. I don't want to have to cut a wide recess for traditional track and ties as I'm not sure that would be durable with car traffic. Has anyone every done this and what was your experience?
> 
> One option I am think about is using a saw to cut 2 parallel slits, wide and deep enough to just lay the rail so it's right at or slightly below the concrete. Then cement epoxy the rail in the grove. Obviously I will not then have ties so I have to keep the lines set just right to keep the gauge. Not sure just how well the cement epoxy will hold. All input appreciated.


I have used this method, but only across a walk path, not a driveway. It's only about 3' long. I cut the 2 slots using 1/4" wide masonary wheels on my angle grinder. Then used a 1:1 cement:sand slurry to fill in either side of each rail.
I think it would work quite well for a driveway.
See a bit more info here, scroll down to the entry for December 15, 2009.
http://www.trainweb.org/SaTR/diary/glatest09.htm


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk is referring to the "walk on " track I got from Split Jaws. Rail set in polycarbonate or similar. Not sure it would stand up to vehicle travel however. Might check with Split Jaws as they custom cut the pieces
Alan
PS back from trip yesterday, first part anyway


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## Daniel Peck (Mar 31, 2009)

22 sec mark crossing drive way, track imbedded in the driveway with concrete


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

That is a great layout. Love the in and out of storage area I'm guessing. So on my topic it appears you crossed asphalt and grooved out for the entire track/ties? How does it handle vehicle traffic?


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Neat pix there Greg!


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## Daniel Peck (Mar 31, 2009)

mickey said:


> That is a great layout. Love the in and out of storage area I'm guessing. So on my topic it appears you crossed asphalt and grooved out for the entire track/ties? How does it handle vehicle traffic?


Ties and all concreted in the drive way and painted black to blend in, as for car traffic, no problem can not tell you how many vehicles been over it! Concrete road bed, lay tack pore around with concrete. Must have stron base.


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

If I decide to move ahead with this next year, I think I will first try the parallel groves for rail only and see how that works.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If you look through my post here in Track Trestles and road bed. you can see how I made tracks for inside my car barns. I use 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/8 angle iron. You could make the same thing and anchor it to the concrete. Put some wood in between the tracks like they do on real crossings. You should be able to drive just about anything over that


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

How wide is your driveway and will the run be a straight line across it? My solution would be to use 2" aluminum U channel which is 1/8" thick giving you a 1 3/4" gauge when installed upside down. Available in 10' lengths, I know it works as I have seen it done and when you want to run trains a stiff garden broom or leaf blower will remove twigs, gravel and general crap quickly.
David M-K
Ottawa


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