# Should I standardize?



## cactusjack99 (Sep 12, 2009)

Hi Folks, newbie here...... hope this post isn't too long, if yes, slap me. 

I am a volunteer for the Hurst TX Public Library youth section G gauge overhead railway. I've had S gauge trains as long as I've been alive, and that's been awhile, but I am new to G. I have some questions and this seems like the place to start. I checked archives and topics, found a bit on the subject, but not from this angle.


The library has an overhead G layout, 2 tracks, rectangular, about 20 to 25 feet on each side. inside rail with 4' radius curves, outside 5'. Track appears to be good quality Aristo Craft outdoor type track, and the layout looks to have been professionally installed, well mounted to beams that were installed above the drop ceiling. It's been in place about 4 years methinks, and I am the "new" train guy. DC powered with each rail having it's own pretty massive power supply, I suspect I could run many trains at once, but only need one on each track at a time.


It runs virtually continuously, 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. The kiddies love it. The Library was getting a bit worried because things were wearing out and I discovered they were down to only 2 running locos. Constant operation is pretty hard on them I think. They were only running each track in one direction, so they were getting uneven wear on the wheels and things like that. I have implemented a "change direction" every 6 weeks policy, by turning the entire train around, so that in a year it should balance out.


The "stable" of locomotives are 4 LGB 0-4-0 which seem to be pretty decent, but need work, I am overhauling one at the moment, and that will give me a spare, seem to be able to get all the parts I need. Just purchased a new Aristo Craft GP40 and blew half my budget, but they needed something reliable while I get the older stuff back in good form. They also have a couple Bachman steam locos, 2-6-0's, not sure of the model. They seem a tad flimsy for constant use, hope I'm not stepping on any toes.....!! Rolling stock is a mixture of brands, LBG, Bachman, Aristo Craft, and maybe other stuff.


What really blew my mind was to find out that in G everybody seems to have their own couplers, and they don't seem to mate up with each other very well,,,, jeeze! So, my first question revolves around couplers.


Being an old Industrial Engineer, my first thought was to standardize on one type coupler. Advantage, if it's got wheels, it can go on the layout behind any locomotive. Disadvantage, well,,,, time and cost to retrofit, and lack of knowledge on my part. Is this a good idea, or just futility? The Aristo's and some LGB, and some Bachmans have knuckles, but of course, none of them want to mate with the others. About half the LGB stuff has what I guess is called "hook and loop"?? At first these put me off,,,, but on second thought, at 8 feet in the air the kids can't see them anyway, and it seems like they would handle tighter turns, and thus be more reliable. The GP40 can handle the outside track, but it can't deal with the inside, and it swings pretty wide on the 5' curves and has already caused a little stir by pulling one car off the track in a curve. I have a stop gap fix in place, but wonder if I should convert it to hook and loop, and hopefully make it more reliable???? Any thoughts on this??? I have also heard good things about USA couplers, and they seem to be more "budget" worthy. Really searching for a good plan here............


Second question is the track. It seems to be loosing some material. I keep finding very thin strips of metal, about like hairs, maybe 4 to 6 inches long, mostly on the curves. I think it comes from the track, but I suppose it could also be coming off wheels. Most of the rolling stock have metal wheels, and I have some with way excessive wear due to the old single direction deal. I have pulled them from service until I can replace the wheel sets. Anyway,,,, is various odd bits of hair like metal a common thing??? Or do I have bigger problems??? 


The other problem is a mysterious "black dust" that collects on the rails and wafts down on the heads of the ladies at the youth desk, which seems to annoy them. I told them it was realistic coal dust from the steamers, but that didn't go over very well. Ha ha. I suspect it's from either the drivers of the steamers, or maybe some plastic wear someplace else........ I think I can control it by vacuuming the rails every month or so,,,, but,,,, anybody seen anything like this? Is this a problem waiting in the wings??


Thanks for your time in reading this epistle, and for any thoughts on my issues.


cheers
cactus


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Cactus- 

You have just given one of the best outlines of the common factrors of lage scale I have seen in a while. Product quality (and occasional lack thereof), coupler incompatability, wheel/rail wear and black carbon from the wheel contact brushes. 

If you had also inclulded that none of the models are the same scale and a mix of standard and narrow gauge prototypes, you would have covered it all. Five stars sir. 

Your options are to get away from brass track to stainless, especially on the curves (expensive), put a base under the track for the falling dust, and prepare to perform fleet maintence even on the million mile LGB 0-4-0s from time to time. 

Couplers, find one that fits the needs and stick with it. For constant operation, simple may be better.


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## cactusjack99 (Sep 12, 2009)

Garrett, thanks for the reply! Black carbon! Yeah, why didn't I think of that? Yep, get's on your fingers just like grease, icky! Thanks! We are going to put cork under the rails that pass over the youth desk, and I do the vacuuming, so I spose we can live with that. 

haha,,, yes, scale, that's why I said "gauge". Stainless track,,,, wonder what the curves would cost, I'll have to check that out, thanks! 

lastly, couplers,,,, I am leaning towards simple,,,,,, brands ??? 

Thanks again! 

c


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd just stick with the hook and loop couplers. Dirt reliable and do tight curves fine. Most people throw them away, so I'm sure someone
can donate some to you, or get them on ebay for a couple of bucks for a WHOLE lot of them.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Black Dust : Yes, the carbon powder can be annoying. Brass or stainless you get it just for running power through the wheels. Best bet is to put something to catch it.

Couplers : Annoying, isn't it? You just have to pick one and stick to it. I have almost all Aristo equipment, and frequently severely restricted budget, so I have aristo knuckles on everything. Look around and see what they have most of and change anything else to that. Aristo equipment always comes with a pair of hook and loops in the box.

Reversing every 6 weeks? I'd never remember!


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello. You are at the right place to ask questions, there are a lot of friendly knowledgable people here that will be happy to help out. I think Spule4 is right that your brass track might be wearing out with all the train time it sees. The curves usually go first so you might have to replace it with stainless. As for the black powder I thought it might be due to plastic wheels that do break down and leave a mess on the tracks but you are running metal. Look round the forum here and you will find a discussion about metal wheels and getting what you pay for. 
As for couplers I would keep it simple and go with the hook and loops they are reliable and cheap compared to most "real" couplers. Alot of "modern"\ bigger equipment needs a larger radius curve than a 4 or even 5 foot to operate on LGB used the 4 foot curves in their starter sets which is fine for the shorter rolling stock that came with it but not so good for larger stough. 
Being new to the hobby you should check out some of the advertisers here for equipment and of course Ebay will give you a good idea of what things are going for. Ask questions and get an education before blowing the budget. 
Most important. Keep those trains running. 
Todd


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB hook/loop style are good, especially if you have the hooks on both ends. Ugly but effective. 

There was a local grocery store that had used brass track for their railway, the rails did wear on the curves. 

Another option to look at for stock, still "Made in America" is from Hartland Locomotive Works. While not owning any (not a US outline modeller) many report bulletproof construction, cheap and cheerfull. Potential downfalls for the finescalle modeller, but a boon for kids? Most are narrow gauge outline, and have design origins going back nearly thirty years.

http://www.h-l-w.com/ 

Search for threads here by "showshoe" he uses a lot of HLW stock for his railway.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For coupling reliability,, the hook and loops on each end are the best and most manufacturers make them to fit and they mate with each other. 
Knuckles while looking great do not mate well with different manufacturers, or some times with changes by a single manufacturer. 

Plastic wheels can wear and leave a black residue, mwetal wheels are better. 

Brass strings in the curves indicate to me a problem with metal wheols or track out of guage. 

Repairs, contact Train-Li at http://train-li-usa.com/ for parts and/or repair services 

Most robust engines to me are the LGB 2 axle engines such as the stainz, these run great and a powered tender can be added for additional pulling power.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree--why not just use hooks and loops? Ugly but who sees them? I use all aristo knuckles on my layout.



The old LGB 0-4-0s run and run and run. There are still a ton of them on ebay


The carbon dust is from electrical arcing. You can cut down on it by using a product like CRC 2-26, which is an anti corrosive lubricant. Does a great job cleaning electrical contacts and leaves a film which greatly reduces arcing. Comes in a little spray can. It makes the track more slippery, though, so it's not good on grades.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, with that kind of run time you will get some cuttings on the outside railhead and on the outside wheels. The local bar has to replace their loco and track (eventually, they say) because the rail heads completely wore away, and the drivers and skates are badly grooved (You can shave with the flanges). 

Ideas? 1. Plan to inspect the railheads and periodically replace some of the track. 2. Switch directions, switch cars, and rotate the consists with your 'spares' to keep wear down to a minimum. 3. Lightly lubricate about once a week with that many hours already on the stuff. The idea is to catch problems before they get out of hand. 4. Hook n Loops are trouble free. They stay coupled, Wire bread ties also work when everything else fails (they seem to be the universal large scale coupler adaptor of choice, lol) 5. Box in the underside of the track over the desk, building a plate girder bridge out of wood is probably cheapest and fairly easy. 6. There's NOTHING on the market more drop dead reliable than the LGB Stainz variants. Some HLW items come close, but the Stainz is the best buy for a constant running beater loco. The older ones with the metal valve gear seem to pull a bit better than the later ones, and a 2017 with a power tender will simply outpull many, if not most, much larger locos.


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## neals645 (Apr 7, 2008)

Just a thought, would running the trains more slowly reduce wear on the wheels and rails?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Probably. If the track is water level, you might actually put some lube on the rails and flanges. 

Regards, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

A suggestion I made to the local Ruby's Restaurant to cut both track and train wear in half was to alternate the trains. Have one rest while the other runs.

People just want to see something moving and this actually adds to the variety. It is a simple matter to do this with relays/reed switches or you could use the LGB leap frog components without the need to throw the turnouts, but for long term operations with hours a day incurred, you should _invest_ in a system that will slow/accellerate the trains at the stop.


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## cactusjack99 (Sep 12, 2009)

Thanks for all the great input! Just to formalize, here's the plan: 

Going to standardize on hook & loop couplers, folks can't see them anyway. Already have some on order! 

We already are planning to put a cork underlay on the track over the desk and one of the bookshelves, the rest is open area, so will continue with the vacuuming on a regular basis. 

Have a plan in the budget to purchase new curves when I decide the time is right. 

Already implemented a regular scheduled rotation of hardware and a cyclic direction change, so wheel wear should even out. It only takes looking at a couple of wheels with the flange entirely down to convince you that continually going around the layout in one direction is not a long term solution, ha! 

Thanks again for the input!! 

cheers 
cactus


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## higgins (Dec 27, 2007)

Cactus, 
I sent you a personal message. If you need more hook and loop let me know. Will gladly send you what I have. 
Joe


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

Yup; great solution. Our group operates a Christmas display which run constantly 8 hours a day. The loop on top of the mountain is a basic 4x6 foot circle. We have worn the rail heads off with slivers and brass powder. The black is from plastic wheels as well. We have been through 3 Thomas Tank engines and are waiting for the Bachmann version. The centrifical force wears the outside rail but changing direction mayl even the wear on the flanges. Good luck. We use the waffle rubbber anti-skid material to reduce the noise. In gray color it looks like ballast from the edge.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

If you need hook and loop couplers let me know. I sent you a message.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Cactus- 

Here is one thing to keep in mind of why rotation should be performed on the locos, a thread of a repair I had to make on a 35 year old LGB loco. Surpised it got as little discussion as it did as I sorted out an LGB loco for under $6. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx 

I am thinking that the bearings from Igus could find more applications in more worn motorblocks.


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

Kids and Thomas!! You should look into Bachmann's coming Thomas. Most stock come with the hook and loop! Good luck.


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## post oak and otter lake (Dec 27, 2007)

cactus
If you want to use the hook & loop couplers, I'll give you mine.
Give me directions from 183 west bound & I'll try to be there Saturday.

Roger
Post Oak & Otter Lake RR
Caddo Mills, TX


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## cactusjack99 (Sep 12, 2009)

Roger; 

Wow,,, a drive by! I am super impressed and thankful!! Lets see, directions for west on 183, I'll start at I35E in Dallas, it should intersect with you at some point! 

Take Stemmons FWY at the Y where you get off for Love Field, going west,,, I think there is a sign for 183 there. 

At the old Cowboys stadium take the Y to the left again, this puts you on 183 going west. 

Proceed through Irving, pass by DFW, continue west into mid-cities, through Euless, beyond the 121 join from Grapevine, begin paying attention when you approach Brown Trail and Norwood, you want to exit on Precinct Line road, just before you hit the 820 mess. 

Turn left onto Precinct Line (this will point you South), proceed South about 3/4 mile or so, the Library is on your right, just before you hit Pipeline. There is also a huge construction that begins at Pipeline, so don't miss the Library! 

Hours for Saturday are 10-6,,,, actually,,, hours are 10 - 6 daily except Sunday (closed), and open till 8 or 9 on Tuesday and Thursday. 

Items could be left for me, "the train guy" at either the front check out desk, or the youth desk, just under the "Train" at the South East corner of the youth area, can't miss it!! And,,, even in the media area where the computers are. 

Thanks again to you,,, and to the others that have offered up some couplers!! 

cheers 
cactus (aka Phil Dunlop)


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## post oak and otter lake (Dec 27, 2007)

I left an envelope of couplers for you on Wed at the children's desk. Sorry I couldn't make it last Sat, but my social director had other plans for me.

Roger
Post Oak & Otter Lake RR
North Central Texas All Scale


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## cactusjack99 (Sep 12, 2009)

Roger; 

Got em! Thank you for the "drive by"


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## cactusjack99 (Sep 12, 2009)

To all the coupler guys! We are now set for a good long time methinks!! Thank you! 

As an update; Got the 0-4-0 refurbished, smooth as silk now. We have the initial "corking" done over the desk area, ladies are much happier. 

Discovered the replacement drivers on the 0-4-0 were pretty noisy (I think they are steel vs brass), squealing on each curve, ladies back to "unhappy". I did something I could not believe, I put conductive grease on the rails of the curve right over the desk. I could imagine what my S gauge locos would do,,,,, slip city. But strangely enough, the 0-4-0 was quite happy, narry a slip or a stutter,,,, and soon the entire layout was quiet. Ladies are back to happy. 

I have converted about 10 cars and 3 locos over to hook & loop, so the currently running trains are all consistent, and running smooth. Much better! 

Now I have some breathing time to rework the other dead 0-4-0 and it's 2 siblings. 

Thanks again all for all the advice and coupler help. 

cheers 
cactus


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## cactusjack99 (Sep 12, 2009)

Forgot to mention: 

The cause of the first dead 0-4-0 kind of surprised me, maybe it's worth a comment for those with LGB Steamers, I can't imagine this is a first.


This is the one that I put up as a spare, only to have it die on the tracks before I could get out of the Library, sheesh! I was fairly puzzled. 


Upon disassembly I discovered that the circuit board that lives within the huge weight on the top of the chassis had dropped it's power transistors. 


These are what looks to be a pair of power transistors, mounted on a heat sink, under the board, and the legs of the transistors solder to the bottom of the board. The solder was ghastly, looks to be an automated flow solder job, and there was a 1/8" bridge of solder between the legs of the transistors and the solder pads on the board. I figured it had just decided to give it up that day I put it on the track. 


Anyway, I re soldered the pair and the engine was back in working operation. Of course, the rough running due to wear was still there. In this one I installed a new motor, new idler gears, new drivers, and new side rods. When back together it runs as smooth and quiet as if it were new. I suppose it essentially is.... 


cheers
cactus


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Cactus- 

What LGB 0-4-0s are these?


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## cactusjack99 (Sep 12, 2009)

Well,,, lessee,,,, the number appears to be 22232 

cheers
cactus


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