# Charles Ro Boxcar- What Scale?



## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

I have an old Charles Ro 'g scale' boxcar. Can anyone tell me what scale ratio it is? 1:22.5?
SandyR


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## Johnn (Jan 5, 2010)

UUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMM picture please?


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes it is 1:22.5, or very close to it.

USA Trains and many others will say the quoted scale as 1:24. But this is incorrect as I have many Ro and USA boxcars and they all match the LGB line of 1:22.5 equipment perfectly in every aspect. All Charles Ro era items will be 1:22.5 scale. It wasn't until many years later when USA Trains (used to be called Charles Ro) introduced their 1:29 line of equipment.



Here is a picture of an older Charles Ro boxcar and reefer (both of which are very close to 1:22.5 as mentioned above):


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt:

I agree with you that the Charles Ro and LGB wooden box cars are very close if not identical in size. I also assumed that they were 1:22.5 as we all know that is what LGB told us. A couple of months ago for another topic here at MLS I measured Delton (which everone agrees is 1:24) LGB and Charles Ro wood sided box cars. The Delton car is slightly longer than the other two. As I recall it is less than 1/4" longer. If it is 1:24, then it should be about 10% shorter, it isn't. Assuming the prototype car is 30' long, the Charles Ro and LGB cars scaled out to about 1:25 and the Delton came out close to 1:24. 


I would like someone else to make these measurements and see if they come to the same conclusion.

To me this explains why I have been able to run all three manufacturers' cars in the same train without any noticeable visual effects. The only noticeable difference is that the Delton cars are a little bit lower.



I could never understand why I could mix Delton with Charles Ro and LGB where the scale difference is on the order of 10% and I could not mix Charles Ro and LGB with Accucraft and Bachmann (spectrum) at 1:20.3 (a similiar 10% difference). Instead of a 10% difference, it is more like a 20% difference.




Chuck N 


Here is a link to the measurements I posted earlier. Scroll partway down the thread to my contribution.


Delston,Charles Ro and LGB measurements and scale calculation


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting measurement information Chuck.

LGB and subsequently the other manufactures that used the same scaling for their initial products (Charles Ro, Bachmann, etc...) are not the correct length for the scale. They are compressed considerably. I've always wondered what the real scale of these cars are? Most seem to think 1:22.5. So perhaps the width and height might be the real measurements to compare to prototype measurements, while disregarding the length.


Not to get too off topic here, but some clearly compressed cars that LGB has issued over the years are their coaches and one car I recently worked with...the high side gondola. The gondola is noticeably shorter (length wise) then it should be. Resulting in some tight spaces in the middle of the car. I could not fit the proper lettering in there when I repainted and decaled this car:











Perhaps the best way to see how badly compressed the LGB and other manufactures cars are (length wise) is to look at Barry Bogs website. He models in true 1:22.5 scale (both narrow gauge and standard gauge)


Barry Bogs Website 


Here is one telling photo by Barry. It is an LGB baggage car next to a scratch built true scale 1:22.5 baggage car. Yep that is 1:22.5 and not 1:20.3 as you might think:


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

OK 

I have a Delton Reefer, 2 Bachmann Reefers, 2 RO Reefers and 2 RO Box cars. 

But where are you measuring end to end? 

The foot walks stick out past the body of the car. 

The couplers I have on these cars are hook and loop. 

And where did the 30 ft length for the real cars come from? 

Randy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My measurements on my USAT Reefers match Chuck and the previous thread. 1:24 is closer than 1:22 here. (besides the facts stated by the manufacturer!) 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. the "danger" here is assuming LGB made products with a consistent scale, which they did not.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By rlvette on 03 Feb 2010 10:37 AM 
OK 

I have a Delton Reefer, 2 Bachmann Reefers, 2 RO Reefers and 2 RO Box cars. 

But where are you measuring end to end? 

The foot walks stick out past the body of the car. 

The couplers I have on these cars are hook and loop. 

And where did the 30 ft length for the real cars come from? 

Randy 
Randy,
As far as I know the length is from coupler Pocket face to coupler Pocket face, this is standard, different couplers don't affect measurements.

As locomotives grew so did the cars, from early 16', 20', 24', 30', 34-36' , 40'.....

What might be more telling is the Width of the car, the overhang in narrow ga. is a lot more than standard ga.

John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy:

I measured the length of the car body which I assume is the length the railroad used. In our scales there are too many couplers that stick out various distances so that measurement would be meaningless. If the prototype included couplers, that is still considerably less than 10% of the length. Even so, the length of the car bodies for the three manufacturers is almost the same. I don't see how one could be 1:24 (Delton) and the others be 1:22.5 (Charles Ro and LGB).


It would be nice to know what the length of the prototype D&RGW box car is and where it was measured. 


Chuck N


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

well I just went and measured all the cars. 

I measured body length and width. This did not include couplers, cat walks or grab bars. 

These are all wooden box and reefer cars 

Bachmann Box car and Reefer: 15 1/4 inch length x 4 inch width. Figured as a 30' model they comes out pretty close to 1:24th scale 

Delton Reefer: 15 inch length x 4 inch width. Figured as a 30' model it comes out pretty close to 1:24th scale 

RO Box car and Reefer: 14 1/2 inch length x 4 inch width. Figured as a 30' model they comes out pretty close to 1:25th scale 

I also measured an Aristo Craft Steel 40 ft box car: 17 inch length x 4 1/4 inch width. Figured as a 40' model it comes out pretty close to 1:28th scale 

This is a measurement table used by CSX 

General Description	50' boxcar 70 ton 
Inside length	50'-7" 
Inside width	9'-6" 
Inside height	10'-11" 
Exterior length	55'-5" 
Exterior width	10'-7" 

Notice the exterior length is shown as 4ft 10 inches longer than the interior length. 
Obviously they include the coupler. 

With this in mind, the RO cars at 14 1/2 inches body length could easily be considered 1:22.5 scale when the coupler is included in the length. 

Randy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

On your statement "Obviously they include the coupler. " 

wonder what the wall thickness of a box car is? It has to be at least 6 inches... anyone know? 

Just curious.. 

Regards, Greg


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Mix of USAT (Charlie Ro's), LGB, AristoClassic and Bachmann - 




















Mix of Charlie's cars in with 1:29 40' Aristo and AML - 





























-Brian


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

When Charlie first started making "modern" steel sided box cars, in the late 1980s (?), they were made to the same dimensions as the wood sided narrow gauge cars. It was only when he started making the ultimate series cars, to compete with AristoCraft (then REA) and the "modern" LGB, that the cars were made at 1:29. It looks to me that Brian's train is a mixture of Charlie's 1:24 and 1:29 cars. As far as I am concerned they look very nice in the same train. Back at the time of the diesel steam transition, freight trains were made up of cars of all sizes. 


Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Greg, 
I wonder if different draft gear didn't add to the length, cushioned underframes... and such? 

An easy way to remove doubt would be to standardise a couple three things; 1.Trucks, 2. couplers, 3. ladders and grab irons to your scale. 
Smaller and narrower cars get back dated. Railroads were frugal, as long as the FRA didn't kick it off the rails, it earned revenue or got rebuilt.... 

Uniformity in a modern consequence .... 

John


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