# 7/8 Scale Climax



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jim Hadden and I (mostly Jim) have been fooling around with the idea of making a 7/8" scale model of the High Noon 18 ton B climax.
It would be more whimsical than scale as it never ran on a two foot gauge track, that I know of' but it seems that 7/8 is getting popular lately and I have been thinking of doing a Climax for a while.
I would build it with slightly larger cylinders and Walschaerts valving to give it a little more movement on the outside.
Other than that, it would be similar to the attached sketch.

I would appreciate any comments, ideas or knowledge on the subject before I start the job.


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like a fun project! I look forward to following your build.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Do it.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Bill, I have a stalled conversion project in the corner of my workshop. I was thinking of converting my 1:20.3 Accucraft Climax into a 1:13.7 one (7/8th). After finally sourcing some needed parts I'm not sure if it will be a convincing conversion. Mainly the trucks will be mini versions of the common Climax truck component. Also the steam dome ideally needs to be moved and enlarged which is not simple on a live steam boiler and the rear bunker needs to be widened. So it sits semi dismantled before I fully commit myself to destructive modifications. (been several years now) 
The mocked image below needs some more tweaking.
Interesting how you are also inspired to make a Whimsical 2 footer. Perhaps I'm not completely mad after all. 










Sadly it's boots are just not big enough. The proportions of the Climax in your sketch is much nicer to my eyes. 

Andrew


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Andrew
Don't give up on that idea
I will be using Aster trucks on mine as I got them at a nice price. i think they are a little bigger than Accucraft but not much.
I think both the Accucraft and Aster (50 ton) are larger than the one I will be doing which is only 18 tons. That is why i looks pleasing to the eye.
I looked up the Accucraft one and it said it is 18-3/4" long and mine will scale out to just over 17". The difference is that it will be 8-1/2" high and a little wider so the trucks should look ok
The quirky little things that catch the eye are the tall stack & whistle piping and I will be raising the sand dome even higher than the sketch. Also the tall, short cab and bunker


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Bill, ideally I would like to be able to restore my Accucraft Climax back as it originally was if I have a change of heart later but that is probably not practical if I want the best outcome. Last thing I wanted was a half hacked live steamer then losing the urge to make it a 2 footer so it sits until I am fully convinced. Call it a long planning stage! I find putting things aside and refining the design is better than jumping right in and having regrets later.
Yes, the quirky little things are important and I like what I see in your sketch. The boiler top in my mock-up image is unchanged from original and needs modification. I could make the cab a little more forward so the boiler doesn't look so long. I may get rid of the generator and electric headlight, perhaps a different stack. All food for thought. 

23 ton Climax









I'm not sure if it the same loco or not. The steam dome is in a different spot.









This one was posted previously by Dwight. A 20 ton On30 kit.









Andrew


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## WES (Oct 31, 2012)

*B20 Dimensions - 4/22/21*

Some basic dimensions for you to chew over.

Frame Length = 24' 8"
Front Truck 4' from front of frame
Rear Truck 4' from rear of frame
Trucks C/C = 16' 8"
Truck Wheel Base = 3' 9 1/4"
Length over Sills = 26' 0"
Overall Length = 28' 0" (to end of coupler pocket)
End Sills = 8" x 8"


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

WES
Where did you find these dimensions
The one I saw was just over 18" long but I can't find it now


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## WES (Oct 31, 2012)

*B20 Dimensions - 4/22/21*

The dimensions are taken directly from a copy of a Climax Mfg. Co. document dated 4/22/21 given to me by John Lewis the Climax historian,

The same document listed the same dimensions and additional ones where relevant for all the Climax locomotives from Classes A, B and C. I am permitted to share the info, but not the document.


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## WES (Oct 31, 2012)

*Climax CN 475*

Your drawing would appear to follow that of B20 CN 475 built in 1904

Photo: http://www.climaxlocomotives.com/confirmed/img/index.php?P=10322


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes
A few differences but close
Thanks


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

That looks like a great choice for 7/8, a good bit larger than the factory models currently on offer.

Would you be planning on real wood for the components made of wood on the prototype?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)




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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Good one VS...LOL

Red
I plan on a distressed wood cab and either wood buffers or lead with wood finish or veneer
This should have a lot of torque and it should have enough weight to take advantage of that.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

VS, just had to comment on the Cat post, love when animals are given human attributes, thank you. I watch all of Bille's builds, a true craftsman. LG


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## WES (Oct 31, 2012)

*20 Ton Climax*

I have asked John Lewis if he has anything on the Class B 20 Ton Climax (beyond the basic dimensions) and he has advised that he does not have a but he will look through what he does have.

I will advise. I do have Climax drawings of a 26" wheel center which appears to be correct for the B20 after scaling CN 475.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, Considering your inability to produce quality machine work , I am surprised that you would think of attempting such a complicated project! Just kidding I love following your amazing projects. I'm looking forward to seeing this one.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

There's always Kozo's book on building a Climax for reference. 
http://www.amazon.com/Kozo-Hiraoka/e/B001KMOR2Y/ref=ntt_aut_sim_3_1

Another reference; Building a Climax by Heinz Hotz
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjL5_b5v7bLAhUISiYKHV9eCekQFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.steam-model.ch%2F&usg=AFQjCNFT4p-a45bwRmMKyopmKbQd8sOQxA&sig2=28qS5VA43i0uX17ZhPWucQ


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

A neat looking engine! I think I would stick with Stephenson valve gear as more I keeping with a little old logging engine... But that is just me. Make sure to make the accessories big... The bell and whistle and especially the headlight would be standard size even on a little engine!


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## Captain Dan (Feb 7, 2008)

Hopefully, this drawing will come through.
18 ton Class B Climax

Dan


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, that's the drawing Mike Chaney used for the loco for Ron. Ron dug that up somewhere after they all searched for a long time for a drawing.

Bill as we discussed a while back, Id stick with the waslcherts. Always my favorite. Going to look good. Especially if it gets Haddened! Something to pair with his Shay?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Dan
Got the photo
It gives me a good idea on the T boiler size
Thanks
I have been working on drawings and should finish up today.
I will post what I come up with after they are done

Keep in mind this is a whimsical rendition


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

So, I have the preliminary drawings done. After contemplating the overall look, I am thinking of going with a little longer bunker. Going from 2-5/16" to 3" 
I made the bell larger and still may move the stack to the center of the smokebox. I think looking at the perspective drawing threw me off.
The drawings were too big to scan so I photographed them.
Some look a little skewed, I guess from not taking them straight on.

Here is the scale drawing with the short bunker and off center stack.









Here is the T boiler with fittings , lubricator, steam line and two different bunker sizes.









The top view shows the steam piping, It looks like the prototype had a steam line going through the cab near the top and a throttle valve outside the cab. I didn't do this because it would be a major undertaking to remove the cab and the lube pickup would be tricky. Instead, I route the line through the lubricator and out the bottom of the cab where it will go through a notch in the bottom of the cab.









The cylinder mount is the same as a rodded engine but at a 22 degree angle. I am using the same design as I do for my other engines. I will modify the cylinder shape for looks but will use this cylinder mounting vs the crosshead mounting used on the prototype. The highlighted bracket is for the crosshead guides and expansion link mount.









Here are the side and top frame views. I will lengthen it slightly if I decide on the larger bunker


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Id go with the 3" bunker or even 3.25" Also how would the dome look if it was 20-30% wider? Looks a bit skinny for the height. 

Quick work thought the drawings. Much be nice to be retired. : )


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I like it. It looks a bit like a creation of Rowland Emett.

Harvey C.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
no skew bevel gears between engine and center shaft? With this gear arrangement the engine will run in reverse when the loco is in forward .
Regards


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jay
I kind of thought the skinny dome had some charm to it, but I think you are right on it and the bunker
Thanks
Henner
The rotation can be changed by just moving the drive gear to the other side.
I want the radius rod at the bottom of the link in forward and I think this will do it. 
I looked at Kozo's way of making the skewed bevel gears and figured it would take me more time to make the jigs and cutting tools than it will take me to do the whole engine.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jay et all
I moved the stack, made the dome a little shorter and wider and increased the bunker to 3-1/4"

Any more suggestions?


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,

Now, that looks good to me. It seems like this is becoming a group project.

Larry


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Ok
So I guess it is time to start making chips
I will probably start a build log under a different title
Since this won't be a full 7/8 scale it will probably be 18B Climax build log


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I like it! I'm really looking forward to your build log.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I really like the final drawing. Maybe get in touch with Ed Hume, he may have some spare gears left from when he made his climax. Email me if you want to contact him.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'd increase the diameter of the boiler a bit. It looks too narrow--cartoonish, even, especially when compared with the diameter of the cylinders. To my eyes, it looks like you took the drawings of the 3' gauge loco, and just stuck a larger cab on it. Granted, an 18-ton Climax isn't a huge locomotive, but it's not a spindly thing, either. If you increase the scale without increasing the proportions of everything, your 18-ton Climax loses a fair bit of weight, ending up as a 12-ton Climax or so. 

Look at the photos of the earlier examples. Notice how the boiler is nearly in line with the top of the bunker or close to it. On your drawing, I'd be tempted to increase the diameter of the boiler so that it's more at the same level of the bunker at the point where the sides flare out. I'd guess that would add about 5/8" to the boiler diameter. In addition to a more balanced aesthetic, that also adds boiler capacity for longer runs. 

Later,

K


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Kevin
I appreciate your input as you have an eye for this sort of thing
The photos above are not of a T boiler 18 ton
Here is the only one I have found. you can see that the boiler is quite narrow.
And you are right, I stuck a larger cab and bunker on as well as larger cylinders because I want a more whimsical model


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## WES (Oct 31, 2012)

*18, 20 & 23 Ton Climaxes*

Some additional info on Climax Locomotives.

18 Ton, 23 Ton, 25 Ton - 35 Ton Climax frames were 53 3/4" wide (over the outside of the frame).

They were constructed from 8" High Channel with a total width of 2 5/8", ie., the web was 5/8" thick with 2" flanges. A standard 70 Ton Climax used the same channel doubled with the webs back to back.

Interestingly, on 18 Ton and 23 Ton Climaxes, the Web faced out presenting a smooth face. On 25 Ton and above the Web faced inside with the flanges on the outside.

All this per John Lewis (3/21/2016


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Bill
Although my model will not be to scale, this is great info
I was wondering about the frame as some photos show the channel edges on the outside and some show the smooth side frame.
I started making it on Thurs and was just about to start a new thread on the build log.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,

When checking the construction lists in the book The Climax Locomotive by Oso Publishing, it appears that perhaps only one or possibly two two-foot gauge Climaxes were built, the A-class (tee boiler on a flatcar style). So, your model of a B-class will be unique, giving you a free hand to do whatever suits your fancy.

Your speed of design and making chips continues to amaze me.

Larry


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes Larry

I am looking for something that looks different than the current OEM models out there
that is why the Walschaerts gear and oversize cab and cylinders.
Even the Walschaerts gear will be different. I am copying that of the 100 ton because I like that look.
Thanks


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