# Rail Clamp Design Theory



## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

Are any members of this site interested in participating in a discussion about rail clamp design? There is a discussion in progress on the Aristo-Craft Forum regarding this topic. I am trying to determine the total number of rail clamp manufacturers. The current number being discussed is 7. There is a list on a reply to the "Rail Clamp Design Theory" thread. I would appreciate any comments regarding rail clamps that can be used to supplement and augment the discussion on the Aristo-Craft Forum. It will help me and others determine the best choice for a rail clamp under the myriad conditions that exist in garden, indoor and portable modular "G-Scale" railroad layouts.

Respectfully,

Gordon G. Perriin, Jr.
Plymouth, Michigan
Lakeshore Garden Railroad Club Portable Modular Railway Layout Master


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Gordon, 

I had a quick look at the list and there were a couple they missed: 

Massoth : http://www.massoth.com/en/produkte/...inder.html

Thiel (they use a drilled and bolted plate connection more like real rail connections) : http://www.thiel-gleis.de/

I have used Hillman and Split-jaw and prefer the Hillman by far. I'm sure if you search on MLS you'll find lots of previous discussions regarding favourites. 

Keith


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for the interest and comments. The Aristo-Craft forum thread has been shut down. I will attempt to complete the effort over the next several months and present at the ECLSTS or 2012 NGRC in Chicago.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By NYC Buff on 13 Apr 2011 05:53 PM 
.... The Aristo-Craft forum thread has been shut down. ...............

Gee ... Let me guess. Aristo's "clamps" weren't rated no. 1?


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Actually, Del, I don't think you are correct. The Aristo forum does not allow comments, particularly negative ones about other peoples' products, and that thread couldn't help, but its definition create those types of comments.

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm sure you are having fun, but many people have personal preferences on rail joiners that have virtually nothing to do with physical characteristics. 

For example, I prefer clamps like Split Jaw... Hillman and others make similar units. Split Jaw has larger screws and larger socket heads than the Hillmans, so I prefer them on that point and the independent "jaws" seem to me to conform to the rail better and clamp better. 

I have good friends who have Train-Li style clamps and claim they hold better... (Aristo is a copy of this style)... I have not found this to be true at all, but my friends believe it fervently. 

Then I have friends that won't use split jaw, but prefer hillmans because they say the split jaw ones break, or the screws bend... 

Then I have friends that have the opposite experience, split jaw are the most sturdy and the hillmans crack down the center. 

I suspect if I visited each of my friend's houses and took a number of clamps and tested them right there I would get consistent results, but I don't get consistent information otherwise. 

Bottom line: I think if you want to determine for yourself which is "Better" buy some of every style and try them in YOUR environment. 

Regards, Greg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,
I suspect that the info you are getting from various people is _all_ correct! As an example, I have used Hillman exclusively on my layout but our club uses Split-Jaw thus I have had experience with both and have experienced both the positives _and_ the negatives of both railclamp designs! The Hillmans do indeed split down the middle and the Split-Jaws do indeed get torqued and have their screws bend! The Hillman's seem to hold the track better but the T slot is harder to slide the track into than the Split-Jaw which has the wonderful ability to remain clamped to one rail while loosening the other one for easy storage and reassembly. With these two designs it really IS Coke vs Pepsi or Ford vs Chevy! My guess would be that all the experiences that people are relating are probably true even though they may seem to contradict each other!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, I agree, and that was the point I was trying to make... thanks for the help! 

Although I have rarely bent a screw on a SJ, it's probably best for each person to find what works best for him. 

Regards, Greg


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

Greg, 

Thank you for your comments! The real issue with the thread at Aristo-Craft was the title. It started as a common bitch session about performance. I was going to try and show by using good engineering and manufacturing documentation techniques (FMEAs, Cause and Effect Diagrams, Finite Element Analysis etc.) that no matter what type rail clamp you chose there was a shortcoming in all of the designs that would create the circumstances people were bitching about. None of the nine (9) named clamps are "ideal" designs. None of the manufacturers provide information regarding application limits other than the obvious ones. No manufacturer provides instructions regarding proper installation technique. All of these contribute to misuse and the dissatisfaction that was rumbling underneath the bitches in the column. In fact, I was able to garner more information from the membership of my large scale and large scale central than from the regular users of the Aristo-Craft Forum. I plan on continuiing the effort over the next several months just to maintain my skills in the disciplines that I would have applied for the continuing thread on the Aristo-Craft forum. 

Respectfully, 

Gordon G. Perrin, Jr. 
Plymouth, Michigan 
Lakeshore Garden Railroad Club Portable Modular Railway Layout Master


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gordon, any information helping people understand better what makes a good clamp will definitely be interesting... 

The Aristo forum is subject to the whims of it's owners, sometimes discussions are ok, sometimes not... 

One other facet, which is probably beyond the scope of your investigation, is do you want any movement in a clamp or not? 

Some people believe so, some do not. 

Regards, Greg


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg...on da money. Movement inside the clamp....for those of use where it gets HOT in handling rail expansion is a BIG deal. If ya tight clamp everything together...well....things move. So, the ability to let rail slide a bit can sometimes be important. How each kind of clamp handles that is a big deal with me.


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

Greg and Mike, 

Thank you for the additional comments regarding the Aristo-Craft thread and rail movement. The rail movement issue will be addressed in two areas reliability and functionality. 

Gordon G. Perrin, Jr. 
Plymouth, Michigan 
Lakeshore Garden Railroad Club Portable Modular Railway Layout Master


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Move your discussion to this forum, no problems like on the Aristo forum.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, I would definitely start with the goals of a railclamp vs a rail connector! With a slide-on rail connector, what you get is just that: a connector that slides easily over the rail and allows the rails to line up together but doesn't rigidly hold them in place. There are microscopicly small screws that can be used (usually found under a tie-piece in some wax) in order to secure the rails somewhat and to better insure conductivity. These rail connectors come with the track (when new) so cost is really not a factor unless you are buying used. The one advantage that they have is that they allow for expansion and contraction due to the extreme temps we experience out west by letting the track slide in the inch and a half long groove.

The goals for rail_clamps are_ somewhat similar but as the name implies, railclamps primarily are meant to connect tightly to the rails forming a strong, rigid connection that provides for perfect rail alignment and excellent conductivity. There are two drawbacks to this design: first, the clamps are relatively small being slightly smaller than an inch in connection surface (this limits the expansion area for track), and second, they are somewhat expensive compared to rail connectors.

Now, Goal#1: Hold the track together and keep the rails aligned exactly. This both Spit-Jaw and Hillman do very well.
Goal#2: Provide good conductivity. Again, because of the amount of compressed metal surface that is touching, railclamps succeed very well.
Goal#3: Allow for track expansion and contraction. The current design is very poor at this as _clamping_ and _sliding_ are mutually exclusive! 
Goal#4: Keep costs down. Again, railclamps aren't cheap! Brass is going through the roof and they have to be manufactured and assembled.

Now, other than cost (which is beyond our control), the only goal that railclamps have trouble with, in comparison to rail connectors, is allowing for expansion and contraction of track. Curve sections are less likely to be affected as the curve will absorb minute expansions and contractions but straight sections are very susceptible! Let's take 50ft. (10 sections of 5ft. straights) in a row. The expansion of track from 0º F to 115º F will force the track to expand considerably more than the length of a railclamp so one has to build in "gaps" in order to take up slack. Likewise, if the gaps aren't large enough, the track will expand until it connects and will then continue to expand pushing the edges further out. When the temperature drops preciptously, as it will in the fall, this can lead to the track contracting to the point where the track actually slides out of the railclamp! Eventually, the railclamp will no longer solidly clamp the rail! This is the dilema of railclamps! I'll stop here and send it back for discussion.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Another use for railclamps, which still allows expansion/contraction, is to use them in conjunction with a regular slip-on rail joiner: You clamp one on either side of the slip-on joiner and run a short jumper from one clamp to the other using a terminal fitting on each end where the bolt goes through. That way there is no soldering so you can take it apart easily, the connection is positive, yet you can still have expansion and contraction. You don't want to do that at every joint, but if you have some large straight sections then you can do a couple of joints that way. I've been using the LGB 3m rail sections to minimize the joints, and try to keep lots of curves to allow the track to move in/out at the bends where it wants to go so using clamps by themselves is no problem. I find it's only the long straights where the jumpers are needed. I think it's counterproductive to plan on having the rails slide within the clamp--I think you're better to have them fixed but allow some areas with jumpers. 

Keith


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I use Split Jaw and on occasion the clamp that effectively is the nut, breaks at the "V" where the track clamps the rail. If the bottom of the"V" were made flat, perhaps only 1/32 of an inch at the base of the "V" the wedge effect would be minimized. This would allow the two pieces to abut the rail, with out the stress on the top and the bottom of the "V" which leads to the stress breakage.


Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never broken a clamp, or bent the head from tightening... you guys must be a lot stronger than me.. 

When I am close to overtightening, I can see that things want to bend. 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't over tighten either. The instructions that I got were to finger tighten and then use a 1/4 turn with an Allen wrench. It may be more the fact that in northern Virginia we can go from single digits in the winter to triple digits in the summer. I still say that if the base of the "V" was flattened there would be less problems.

Chuck


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

This is why I like the Hillman design better. The T groove holds the rail better in my opinion. I still haven't seen the railclamp that allows for expansion but still clamps down rigidly to the rail though!


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I would recommend Axel's of Train Li USA's Pro Clamps.

I have installed over 250 of these with no issues. I replaced my split jaws with these and could not be happier. The ease of installation And removal really makes a big for me. 

One thing to keep in mind comparing them to the Aristo clamps, the Aristo clamps only look like the Train Li ones, but they don't compare.
The Train Li Proclamp uses high strength Stainless Steel screws vs the others brass ones, and the holes for them are machined to a very tight tolerance (no screw slop leading to stripped threads), and they are beefier so the screw holes are not to close to the end. 

Also a great feature is the screws are screw down from the top and not the sides this makes maintanace a breeze. I had to remove one of my R7 switches for maintenance a couple of weeks ago. I just undid the screws from the switch side, leaving the clamp in place and still secured to the other tracks by the remaining screw, and just lifted the switch out. I didn't even have to disturb the rest of the track, ten minutes later the switch was back in and operations continued.

The Aristo clamps use Brass screws which are much much softer than stainless steel, and tend to strip and break, plus the screw hole is a bit sloppy and to close to the end of the clamp.

Another factor is the cost, $16 for ten in brass, $19 in nickel plated.

Ron


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## Martino2579 (Jun 4, 2008)

Couldn't but agree with Ron. Axel's clamps are really good and better than the AMS and Split Jaw clamps I've used in the past.


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

I am glad the title of this thread is "Rail Clamp Design Theory." We need to document issues that affect the choice of clamps. 

One issues is electrical continuity. To some this is not an issue. To others this is an issue. Does the actual rail contact area provide the equivalent cross section area of the rail? Can I achieve maximum electrical continuity and only have a power connection every 300 or 500 feet? 

Another issue is making the connection whether screw/bolt when one side of the track is against a hill or cliff. As a part of this is the need to connect and disconnect such as club modules or removable sections or bridges. 

Another issue is the expansion and contraction as mentioned above. 

Another design issue is the availabilty of insulating units for block control or storage tracks. 

Other issues involve wheel flange clearance, visability when ballasted, type of metal rail, over joiner vs bare rail, and general availability of a complete line of types. 

What happens when rail is lifted or moved. Will the clamp or attachment break or bend? Can a clamp be installed after track is anchored? 

Lets discuss the design issues and we won't get into flaming or stabs at each company.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Agreed. Breakage of Hillman's happens almost exclusively when the track is picked up! Usually, the middle edge that forms the lip cracks. This does not render the clamp useless but it does degrade the holding power. Split-Jaws tend to torque when picked up and this leads to breakage. Basically, railclamps aren't designed to be used to pick up connected track flat! If you pick them up on their side it works much better!


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

After review of replies to the three (3) threads on the major G-Scale forums and further analysis, the only solid, certain information available regarding _Rail Clamp Design Theory _is that there are eleven rail clamps extant designed and manufactured by eleven different companies. As noted previously, there are similarities and differences and the rail clamps can be grouped in four (4) families.

An early opinion can be offered based on additional analysis and replier comments. That opinion is that none of the extant rail clamps are optimal designs. Optimal design in this instance means meeting all reasonable customer expectations (e. g. ease of installation, durability, applicability etctera). Actual technical information regarding many aspects of the designs are not readily available. Additionally, specific field performance information (e. g. Mean Time to Failure, Failures per Thousand Units, failure type and location etcetera) is not available other than as anecdotal comment. Significantly, the environmental use conditions (temperature, humidity, salt presence, load, prevailing fastener torque etcetera) vary in such a manner as to add more confusion than clarity and are at best poorly stated when referenced as a potential nonconformity cause.

The above comments will be addressed specifically in the planned exposition on _Rail Clamp Design Theory. _Since there is less information than expected, this task becomes somewhat longer in duration than originally anticipated. The present plan is to have the completed project ready for presentation at the National Garden Railroad Convention in Chicago during the 2012 calendar year.

Many thanks to everyone that has participated in and contributed to the discussion on the three (3) forums so far. Your input has been of considerable value and has helped to refine the scope and direction of the project. Any one wishing to discuss this topic in more detail can reach me by e-mail at [email protected]. I would appreciate additional comment and guidance.

Respectfully,

Gordon G. Perrin, Jr.
Plymouth, Michigan
Lakeshore Garden Railroad Club Portable Modular Railway Layout Master


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Gordon - As you have discovered, specifications and documentation of any kind in this hobby are rare. It will be interesting to see how far you take this project. I am guessing you are a retired reliability engineer?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

In a tight space like a switch, the Train-Li clamp which uses screws from the top is much easier to deal with. Same for a 22.5 degree crossover.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And where you don't want to see the screws staring up at you, the split jaw, hillman, and the like are easier to conceal, since the screws are below the top of the clamp. 

also those types make concealing any wire attached to the clamp easy to make invisible. 

Definitely pros and cons here... 

Greg


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

Gentlemen:

As noted in an earlier response, thank you to all that have responded in writing. I note that the ratio of responses is approximately 60:1. That is 60 viewers to 1 responder. Certainly more of you viewers have concrete experience with various rail clamps! I would appreciate some quantitative information regarding failure rate. I would also appreciate solid statements of failure mode. I have noted several issues in my study to date. More contribution by interested and disinterested parties will make this a more substantive effort than supposition and speculation on my part based on engineering and manufacturing knowledge. Please assist with data.

Thank you!

Respectfully,

Gordon G. Perrin, Jr.
Plymouth, Michigan
Lakeshore Garden Railroad Club Portable Modular Raiwlay Layout Master


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## York Santa Fe (Feb 2, 2011)

I have at least 300 Split Jaw stainless steel clamps on my 800 feet of stainless track which is split between inside and outside layouts. In over 5 years I have never experienced a broken clamp or a bent screw. I use the Split Jaw 6 inch long ball head Allen driver which has about a one inch diameter handle. In my opinion there is no way that you can bend any screws using that tool because of the diameter of the handle. If folks are bending screws they are probably using regular Allen head wrenches with long extensions and exerting excessive torque which is not necessary for proper clamping. I have had to, in some cases, use a regular Allen head wrench to loosen a frozen screw that I could not loosen with the Split Law tool because of the small handle. I have had no experience with any other clamp except Split Jaws.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I can't speak for others, but in my case I have bent the screws in the current version of SS split-jaw clamps while bending flex track.
I can post pictures of them if you like. The screws were not strong enough to hold the two ends together while bending over them.

I had planed on using the split-jaws for curves, because I thought they were stronger, and Train-Li's Proclamps for the straights because of ease of installation.
But after bending several pairs of split-jaws I figured I'd give the Pro-lamps a try. I was able to bend all the curves on my layout right over the Pro-clamps with no issues.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have bent several pieces of Aristo track with SS Split Jaws and had no problem, using the Train-Li bender. Maybe I'm bending more gently, or a bit at a time, but I bent down to a 9-1/2' diameter. 

Also I've bent the screw heads on a SJ clamp maybe only 4 times, and I have about 800' of sectional track, so you can imagine how many clamps I have. 

I guess different people have different experiences. I do know that I don't try to torque them down like head bolts on a race car. 

Greg


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

I've used two types of Aristo clamps, some from AML, some from a guy selling them on ebay and some from a friend of mine who made 50 of them for me in his maching shop in exchange for coffee and donuts. All of them have worked well. Never a failure yet after several years. The newest version from Aristo and the type my friend made were the easiest to use. I live in SW Michigan so they have servived ice and snow without a problem.
Bob


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## White Deer RR (May 15, 2009)

The only time I ever bent Split Jaw SS clamps was when sections of track had to be hurriedly moved because a painter showed up a week early. The screws seemed to bend from the weight.

Also, I have a very tight layout and in a few spots I have installed the clamps with the heads facing to the middle of the track, because there simply wasn't room to install from the outside. This seems to create an extra clicking sound as the flanges pass over, but not a huge issue for me with code 332. 

But if we're talking design, I thought I would throw that in. Obviously I could get rail clamps that install from the top for those situations if I wanted to.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If we are talking Design Split Jaw needs to be made backwards from the way they are now. The solid brass piece needs to be on the inside of the rail and the two splits on the out side. lf course if you put them on backwards the above will not apply. ( I think that is the way they were orginally made with the solid piece taped and the splits just drilled..) My only problem with Split Jaw is when I go to tighten them the split pieces are alwasy the wrong way or Spin to the wrong position as I tighten them.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ; 

I noticed the "flopping" problem last Saturday while helping bolt our club's track together for our Rail Day display. I wonder whether something simple like a cardboard or wooden shim to set in the gap between the two split segments would hold them in the right position long enough to start clamping? 

I may try that approach the next time I'm clamping with Split Jaw joiners. 

Best, 
David Meashey


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 19 May 2011 09:22 AM 
I have bent several pieces of Aristo track with SS Split Jaws and had no problem, using the Train-Li bender. Maybe I'm bending more gently, or a bit at a time, but I bent down to a 9-1/2' diameter. 

Also I've bent the screw heads on a SJ clamp maybe only 4 times, and I have about 800' of sectional track, so you can imagine how many clamps I have. 

I guess different people have different experiences. I do know that I don't try to torque them down like head bolts on a race car. 

Greg 

Who knows Greg maybe I got a bad batch or something. I don't think it was the radius because the smallest I have is about 11 feet. 
Mine failed several times bending the outer loop on my line, which is about 13 feet or so.

To tell the truth I was really surprised to find that the Pro Clamps held so well, was a big win win for me.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, I have heard what you describe from several others, and with your attention to detail, I have no reason to doubt your powers of observation, quite the contrary. 

I'm going to have to buy some of those clamps just to do some comparisons, although since SJ is working fine for me, nothing to "fix" here. 

I'm getting the feeling that I'm more sensitive to overtorquing than most, and the SS in the SJ screws is a soft alloy. 

Regards, Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The split pieces will allow the rail to slip on the solid piece because of less griping surface or mass thus bending the screws. The two solid parts of a Hillman clamp have more griping surface. Both sides bridge the rail joint. Think about it. 

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I did consider just that, but my experience is the split jaw aligns the rails better, does not "flatten" the curve at the joiner as much as the hillmans do. On straight track, it's a tossup in my opinion. 

But, there's a new development at hillman, they make "curved clamps" now... have not seen them in the flesh... 

Since I'm SS, I'll probably still stay with the stainless steel SJ, over the nickel-plated brass hillmans... I have some where I had problems with the plating. 

Greg


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## York Santa Fe (Feb 2, 2011)

Split Jaw clamps have one design advantage over some of the other clamps. Having the 2-piece split jaw on one side makes it much easier to remove an individual section of track or a switch since only one half of the clamp on each rail needs to be loosened to remove the section. 

On another note, in my opinion the split jaw clamp was not designed to be used for bending track. The clamp only has a solid joining piece on one side for strength, therefore this side is subject to breakage and/or the bending of screws. Clamps with solid joining pieces on both sides would be much stronger when it comes to bending track but thats probably why rail benders are sold.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By York Santa Fe on 21 May 2011 01:40 AM 
Split Jaw clamps have one design advantage over some of the other clamps. Having the 2-piece split jaw on one side makes it much easier to remove an individual section of track or a switch since only one half of the clamp on each rail needs to be loosened to remove the section. 

On another note, in my opinion the split jaw clamp was not designed to be used for bending track. The clamp only has a solid joining piece on one side for strength, therefore this side is subject to breakage and/or the bending of screws. Clamps with solid joining pieces on both sides would be much stronger when it comes to bending track but thats probably why rail benders are sold. 


I absolutely agree with the removing sections of track and the split jaw. I just wish the solid piece were tapped for the screw and the split pieces were loose. 

JJ 

PS. As much as I like Hillman clamps I wish thier screws were a little bigger.


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

I also agree with this concept. This would allow tie strips to be anchored to the substate. Adjacent pieces of track could remain anchored when one section is removed. Clamps could remain on opposite rails much as "joiners" do now.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

JJ, I have some split jaws set up the way you asked... looks like they made some that way too... but I think they changed so that the action of tightening the screw did not "twist" the little pieces, i.e. the shoulder of the screw head bearing on metal would tend to twist it, so have the screw shoulder bear on the larger piece. 

Just my observations by having both versions of SJ. 

Greg


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## NYC Buff (Sep 21, 2008)

At this point, it is necessary to provide a list of the original design criteria and supplementing suggestions for this engineering design study. The necessity is driven by a desire and need to assure that a complete design criteria set exists. Some of the detail that will devolve from additional discussion about criteria will appear trivial and redundant. However, any subsets of the the principal set will illuminate areas of design concern not anticipated that could lead to substantive improvements in existing designs or lead to an optimal design that satisfies the largest degree of expectation. 

Originally Offered: A. Ease of Use B. Ease of Installation C. Reliability D. Durability E. Functionality F. Material Availability G. Cost H. Price Point 

Additional Suggestions: 1. Avaiability 2. Electrical Continuity 3. Expansion/Contraction 4. Insulation 5. Flange Clearance 6. Appearance 7. Metallic Continuity 8. Visibility/Concealment 9. Accessibility/Inaccessibility 10. Retention/Alignment 11. Movement 12. Metallic Compatibility 13. Availability 

Should you have any suggestions or comments, please respond to this thread or send a private communication. For private communication, I can be reached at [email protected] or734 737 0232. 

Respectfully, 

Gordon Perrin 
Plymouth, Michigan


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Views vs respond....... Many of us view a thread many times and may only respond once or twice, so the 60 to 1 ratio does not have much meaning to me. 

I ought Hillmans many years ago when I built my RR, and still have many left. They had a sale if over 100 were purchased and I ordered several hundred. 

So, I do not need to make a new purchase at this time, but I would get the Train-Li clamp for my tight spaces on switches when removing/installing them on an expansion. 

My eyes and my friends eyes do not see the small screws way down there on the ground so screw tops showing can not bother me. (Greg will comment on this???). 

PS, I work with Axel at Train-Li, but I do like his clamp for the 2 top mount screws. I tried the 4 screw clamp (San-Val I think) but found them not always aligning the rail unless you torqued them equally, a pain in the butt.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

the way to forever settle the clamp design question would be to procure every type of rail and clamp and expose them to the elements for a year, then run a conductivity test. There could be similar tests for other variables. Then, one could publish a scientific paper and post it here.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg's already commented on screws showing, but this is a personal choice, some people it bothers some not. Just like code 332 vs. 250 in appearance. 

I'm more after alignment, lack of corrosion, maintaining conductivity. 

Greg


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

I have not seen any comments, or criteria pertaining to ability to stand up to freezing conditions. 


I live in Northern Ohio and it's not uncommon to have freezing rain conditions several times each winter. That's part of being close to the lake and having the winds picking up the warmer water as it sweeps across from the north to the south. The rain freezes as it hits the ground, or objects on the ground. I thinks that's what has contributed to the failures that I've seen here. I've used Split Jaw and Hillman and each spring I find some that have broken. The original Aristo joiners are also subject to this and have probably replaced equal amounts of all three. Plenty of grease was used during installation, but I also suspect that much of that has dissipated during the hot summers as there is not much left after examining the failed units. 



Currently, I have switched over to the new Aristo clamps and over the last 2 years I have not had any failures, other than breaking a few from over tightening. As more of the Split Jaws, Hillman, and the original Aristo Joiners fail each year, I've been changing them out with the Clamps. 


I've been wonder if because the Aristo Clamps are only snugly clamping 1 side of the rail, if their ability to trap moisture, then freeze, and break is much reduced. Has anyone else had similar poblems and observations or conclusions? 






Thanks,
Mark
*http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com*


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

My experience is with Split Jaw's & I have not had any broaken ones.. Had a temporary layout @ a flowre & garden show where a friend used a DeWalt drill to tighten the screws.. Had a lot of bent screws, he is still my friend.. I split my joints about a foot, no kinks & this way if I need to bend the track there is no issue with the clamps.. I live in South West Kansas, low temps about 0 degrees & highs about 120 degrees.. I have had no problems with expansion or contraction issues.. I do as JJ says, I put the long side on the inside.. I also rerail most on my switches, with longer rails so I can split the joints.. My track floats on composition shingles laying on the ground.. 

BulletBob


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## DAN338 (Feb 9, 2012)

I am a Newbie to Large Scale, but have been involved in O gauge for 25 years. I recently purchased Aristo-Craft stainless steel track and was wondering about anyone's experience with the stainless steel clamps that go over the the rail joiners, such as the Roll-Ez and Split Jaw versions. I was principally interested in connectivity and ridgidity issues, as I would be using track power.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 16 Apr 2011 09:56 PM 
Agreed. Breakage of Hillman's happens almost exclusively when the track is picked up! Usually, the middle edge that forms the lip cracks. This does not render the clamp useless but it does degrade the holding power. Split-Jaws tend to torque when picked up and this leads to breakage. Basically, railclamps aren't designed to be used to pick up connected track flat! If you pick them up on their side it works much better!

I agree. The only time I broke a Hillman clamp is when I removed a large section of segmented track and lifted it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

DAN338: 

I think you will find that the overwhelming consensus is that over the joiner clamps are not good. 

The basic thing is that most people are using clamps on track that is powered. The over the joiner clamps do not stop dirt and muck getting into the joiners, which helps reduce conductivity. Also, when pulling track apart, you still have the problem of sliding the track apart, which rips things up, rather than just removing a clamp and lifting the section straight up without disturbing the surrounding track. 

Don't do it, buy the clamps of your choice of manufacturer and slowly "trade out" your joiners with clamps if you cannot afford to do it all at once. 

There's plenty of discussions on this forum about this, you just need to do a bit of searching and reading. 

Regards, Greg


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