# Hard to get into this hobby.



## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

okay... Over the last few years I have managed to accumulate 300 feet of brass track, three locos, a 10 amp power supply, a single throttle, a few switches, and 20+ cars. Most all of it is in the boxes in the closet. 
Every time I think I know what type of system I want to use to run all of this... I get information overload, second guess myself into confusion and put it all back in the boxes untill the next Christmas.

Sites like this are FANTASTIC and I so appreicate all who have offered advice on prior posts! You can get a TON of information on every topic here...
But unless you know something about the topic to start with - the site can also be an utter nightmare of differing opinions and tech savvy people taking your thread in a new direction or talking over your head. 
What if you are just an average guy that likes trains and are trying to decide how to make them work. 

Because my wife wants sound on our holiday (direct DC to track) layout... she pushed me off the cliff and into the water by purchasing the Aristo TE 2.4MGZ "set" and a 6 pack of receivers (yea she is awesome). Of course the reason she picked that system ---- It was listed in a big ad on St. Aubins home page and it noted remote control and sound as features. No other reason...

Now as I am reading up on the system I find out, there are capacitor boards needed, smoke boards needed, that pending on the sound card I want to get, that there is a new board needed for some PW vs. Linear power issue and the list goes on. 
I have no idea what PW or Linear power does or if either will affect any of what I want to do. Nor do I know what capcitors, boards, controllers, 3amp, 5amp, 8amp, DCC, DCS, R/C things work with what, which are overkill or must have....
Honestly I feel like as a newbie I need to be an electrical AND mechanical engineer to comprehend how all of this is supposed to work. Problem with that is - There are electrical and mechanical engineers on here who can't agree, so I am not sure that would even help me..








Ray M. had me sold on DCS... until I found out that the system needs a fly wheel on the loco to work correctly and that the cost to add that is = to the cost of the loco - Scratch that one due to cost effectiveness.

More to the point - Aside from throwing large handfuls of money on the ol' tried and true method of "trial and error" - How did any of you decide on a system and figure out what works with it?

Thanks again for your input, your experiecne and opinions are appreicated. 

Todd


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

My condolences--I just blundered my way into it, making many mistakes. They were each learning experiences. I ended up concluding DCC was the way to go for me, for a variety of reason, but I started out with literally some LGB starter sets and a throttle. 

I decided that DCC would be cheaper in the long run, because I knew I wanted to A; run multiple locos, B; have sound, and C, run longish trains with lots of lights. But also it had to do, for us, with storage--we have a smallish house and storing a bunch of 16 foot long trains is hard. We ended up building a shed so that fully assembled trains could just run right out onto the track. There's no way I could get a battery pack into a loco that's in the middle of a 16 ft x 30 inch shed. I didn't want to have to store mutiple battery packs, and also I found that the more often trains were carried to and fro, the more often stuff got broken. None of those things may be issues for you. 

I feel your pain on the REVO system. It's cludgy--receiver, smoke board, cap board, sound board: it's a big headache. Lewis Polk has said he thinks it's best for battery operation. With DCC I just drop a decoder in, and bingo, sound and motor control, no wiring or fussing. 

If there's anyone near you runnig a layout, you should stop by and check it out


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd,

Where are you, geographically? 

I didn't mean to scare you with your post the other day. The system your wife bought you is easy to install. The manual is written so anyone can do the installation and set up. Have you gotten the kit yet?


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Thank you for the input Lownote...
If I remember correctly I have seen you mention your running Airwiare, QSI or something like that... Is that all a DCC system in and of its self or are they components of DCC?
I have seen NEC and Digitrax talked about on here?

I very much want to run multiple trains, some longer and some shorter, do a bit of switching and so on. It is also important to me to be able to be walk around with the control, be able to throw a few switches remotely and of course work the smoke, lights and sound on the locos. 
So DCC may be the best solution... in the long run. 

Did I understand you correctly in saying that the DCC decoders come with sound built in to them?

Thanks again for your input and patience.

Todd


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

I too had issues when I started and did not lay track the first year in the hobby. Now I went with strictly DC and find it works great for me now but I will switch in the future. I did purchase QSI sound decoders for two of my Loco's and they do both DC and DCC this was one of the big reasons why I purchased QSI. 

I am an Electrical Tech in the Canadian Navy and I also find it confusing when reading a lot of peoples post in this forum as well because they go over my head, so do not feel bad. The best advice I can give you is talk to people in person and go out and see others layouts when you can. I stayed with DC because it is easy to understand and easy to fix. Although DCC can be easy as well you will understand it much better if you see how it is done rather than reading about it. 

Do not wait to lay track, get your trains running even if it is small and experiment early, It is my experience that you will learn faster by doing it rather than waiting to fully understand it first.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd, Easey Peasey!!! You sound kinda like I was 3 yrs ago. Now with 4 words its easy!! QSI/G-wire/Airwire T-9000, OR and what I recommend is the NCE QSI Procab for a transmitter/throttle. If I can be of any help, let me know. Nuff said let the beatings begin!! But that's what worked for me and I am literally illiterate when it comes to lektricity and wiring and such, ask anybody who are my train buddies Hah LOL I think I have somewhat mastered soldering now I think, my problem was the type of solder I was trying to use and some technique!! Now I am soldering to beat the band!! If you want to see what QSI deocders and G-wire can do come in and watch our "LIVE" show on Noel's channel on Sat night from 4pm-10pm California time. I'll list his channel and mine I will be in his studio on his channel Sat nite so go there, but you can look at my things on my channel and web page by following the links to my live channel and you tube and such!! Regal 

http://www.livestream.com/noelw/ Noel's channel where the show will be Sat nite. 


http://blueregal.angelfire.com/ My web page where you can link to everything of mine!!!!! You or anybody check it out!! 



http://www.livestream.com/crazytrainguyschannel/ My Channel


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

no worries Mark!Your posts were very helpful... just led to deeper waters so to speak.
Scared is not the problem - indecisive and $$$ are. I don't think any of us wants to blow our limited budget on things that will either not be usable or require additional parts that were not expected. Who wants to get a toy and find out you need batteries to use it and don't have them...

It seems when you make a choice it is never that simple and certainly leads to more technology that is required and tends to trip me up. I am handy... I can plan and build a house from the ground up but when you start talking electronics, amps volts different system compatibility and so on - it immediately jumps to a whole new level.
Then you have people taking about things that need/can/should be done to ANY system to improve it to make it work correctly and you don't even have it yet. Some not all then tend to start using acronyms and terms the newbie won't know.... so I go right back to square one. Am I buying something useless or that will require a TON more things to make work.
It is just difficult as a newbie with no knowledge of electronics to decide what things that are over ones head - are going to be a factor down the road.

I am in the SW Houston area. I have gone out to the HALS facility in Katy a few times but it is like 65 miles round tip and usually there is no one there on the G-Scale tracks or if the are there, they are live steam and don't deal with remote control (DCC, etc).
I have also been to the Houston Area G Gaugers a few times. Maybe I wasn't pushy enough to get them to open up but they seemed more put out about me asking questions than helpful... so I rely mostly on this site for answers. 

If you veterans keep posting and keep being patient, I will get it sorted out.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Since you already have a good sum of money invested in the Aristo Revolution system, I would say, go for it. Give it a try. Many of us on here believe that the Revolution is a straight forward easy way to go and love the system. I know there are some very strong advocates here that believe DCC is the way to go. I am glad that it works well for them, but others of us, myself included, are very happy with the Revolution system. As Mark has said, go on the ARisto forum, print out the manual for the Revolution. It is VERY well written, and I think you'll find that it is pretty straight forward.

My suggestion is start easy. Install the REvolution receiver that you already own into an engine or two and see how it runs. If you have problems with jerkiness with track power, you can always add the capacitor pack, but who knows, if you have good clean track you may not need it. You can certainly run long trains, multiple engine consists, etc. with this system just like you can with DCC.

As I've said many of us love the Revolution system. Personally I am all battery powered, but I have converted all of my engines from the old Train Engineer system of Aristocraft to the new REvolution system, and just love it. You can use the transmitter to power switches, horns, lights, bells, and lots of other features. Most of my systems are operated together with the Phoenix soundboards, which have excellent sound characteristics.

Hope this helps. The main thing, is don't "contemplate" too long, get started!!

Ed


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By blueregal on 11 Aug 2010 02:49 PM 
Todd, Easey Peasey!!! You sound kinda like I was 3 yrs ago. Now with 4 words its easy!! QSI/G-wire/Airwire T-9000, OR and what I recommend is the NCE QSI Procab for a transmitter/throttle. If I can be of any help, let me know. Nuff said let the beatings begin!! But that's what worked for me and I am literally illiterate when it comes to lektricity and wiring and such, ask anybody who are my train buddies Hah LOL I think I have somewhat mastered soldering now I think, my problem was the type of solder I was trying to use and some technique!! Now I am soldering to beat the band!! If you want to see what QSI deocders and G-wire can do come in and watch our "LIVE" show on Noel's channel on Sat night from 4pm-10pm California time. I'll list his channel and mine I will be in his studio on his channel Sat nite so go there, but you can look at my things on my channel and web page by following the links to my live channel and you tube and such!! Regal 

http://www.livestream.com/noelw/ Noel's channel where the show will be Sat nite. 


http://blueregal.angelfire.com/ My web page where you can link to everything of mine!!!!! You or anybody check it out!! 



http://www.livestream.com/crazytrainguyschannel/ My Channel 



Hope I didn't come across too uneasy.... it should be more "tired of being stalled" at the same impasse.
QSI/G-wire/Airwire - Are a big part of the problem for me as I seem to get them confused. 
Are all of these component of a DCC system, a DCC system in it's self or are they strictly different vendors parts you have meshed into a usable system? I guess it could be a NON DCC system that is strictly radio controlled?
You mentioned "let the beatings begin"... lol
Is it Safe to assume this is another one of those topics the experts differ on? How did you end up with these three components for your system?
Thank you again for sharing your experience. I will certainly try to figure out how and tune in to your live channel Sat and see what is going on.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Todd 
I would say just do it and get some track down. I started with a LGB starter loop, moved outside and expanded to about 125' of track which I powered with the LGB starter set pack, The following year the layout expanded to over 300' and I picked up a Aristo train engineer and a crest transformer #55465 which gives me more than enough power for 2 engines at now more than 450' of track. Eventually I would like to install sound in my engines and probably run it with DC and track magnet activators. I wold also like to have at least one engine be a battery powered unit.
There is something to be said for keeping it simple and to start I would recommend just putting down some track and get a train running. You can worry about fancy electronics later. It is nice to be able to pull a loco out of the box and just run it without doing costly surgery on it.
Todd


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By cape cod Todd on 11 Aug 2010 03:14 PM 
Hi Todd 
I would say just do it and get some track down. I started with a LGB starter loop, moved outside and expanded to about 125' of track which I powered with the LGB starter set pack, The following year the layout expanded to over 300' and I picked up a Aristo train engineer and a crest transformer #55465 which gives me more than enough power for 2 engines at now more than 450' of track. Eventually I would like to install sound in my engines and probably run it with DC and track magnet activators. I wold also like to have at least one engine be a battery powered unit.
There is something to be said for keeping it simple and to start I would recommend just putting down some track and get a train running. You can worry about fancy electronics later. It is nice to be able to pull a loco out of the box and just run it without doing costly surgery on it.
Todd 

Thanks for the input.
I do set up 3 DC loops each Christmas, so they do get some use... but I want to get something more user friendly. Running all 3 on the same system has limits and is a pain... Plus the wife wants sound.
I notice that most people seem to use or talk about Phoenix sound systems.... Ouch I looked at those and they are pricey. My guess is TOP OF THE LINE but a lot of $$$ to outfit 3 locos... 
What type of sound card/system would you be looking at for use with track magnets?


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By NavyTech on 11 Aug 2010 02:48 PM 
I too had issues when I started and did not lay track the first year in the hobby. Now I went with strictly DC and find it works great for me now but I will switch in the future. I did purchase QSI sound decoders for two of my Loco's and they do both DC and DCC this was one of the big reasons why I purchased QSI. 

I am an Electrical Tech in the Canadian Navy and I also find it confusing when reading a lot of peoples post in this forum as well because they go over my head, so do not feel bad. The best advice I can give you is talk to people in person and go out and see others layouts when you can. I stayed with DC because it is easy to understand and easy to fix. Although DCC can be easy as well you will understand it much better if you see how it is done rather than reading about it. 

Do not wait to lay track, get your trains running even if it is small and experiment early, It is my experience that you will learn faster by doing it rather than waiting to fully understand it first. 

Glad to know that some of the stuff I read is over other peoples heads as well never mind over the head of an Electrical Tech... 
So are you currently using sound on your DC layout? How does that work the QSI decoder?


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Todd, 
i'm 40 years in the hobby, but still do not understand much of the "higher arts" of electronic wizardry. 
just put your track down, connect your throttle and power - and start playing. 
you, and only you (and your wife) will know, when it is time to build in some gizmos. 
.


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Thank you... sometimes it is just easier to jump in and see where it goes. I doubt there is anyone on here that can argue with 40 years of experience.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

the point is, that we are not all from the same mould. so the directions our layouts evolve into are different. 
just don't let yourself be frightened by any specialists. 
it is your hobby, and your fun - or lack of it. 
if you are lazy (like me), maybe you never will leave simple analogue/DC and sit back, watching your trains go round. 
if you get bored from watching stupid choo choos going in circles you will get ideas, what you want to do with your trains. 
then, when you know what you want to do, ask which system might be adequate for your goals. 

but first of all, get your trains out of the cupboard! - you got already more than you need for a start. 
this forum - and it's members - is good, if you ask specific questions. 

for starters it is enough, if you take care, not to lay short circuit-loops. (that is, when you connect track in a way, that the right rail gets connected to the left rail) 
have fun!


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Idraw4u on 11 Aug 2010 03:13 PM 
Posted By blueregal on 11 Aug 2010 02:49 PM 
Todd, Easey Peasey!!! You sound kinda like I was 3 yrs ago. Now with 4 words its easy!! QSI/G-wire/Airwire T-9000, OR and what I recommend is the NCE QSI Procab for a transmitter/throttle. If I can be of any help, let me know. Nuff said let the beatings begin!! But that's what worked for me and I am literally illiterate when it comes to lektricity and wiring and such, ask anybody who are my train buddies Hah LOL I think I have somewhat mastered soldering now I think, my problem was the type of solder I was trying to use and some technique!! Now I am soldering to beat the band!! If you want to see what QSI deocders and G-wire can do come in and watch our "LIVE" show on Noel's channel on Sat night from 4pm-10pm California time. I'll list his channel and mine I will be in his studio on his channel Sat nite so go there, but you can look at my things on my channel and web page by following the links to my live channel and you tube and such!! Regal 

http://www.livestream.com/noelw/ Noel's channel where the show will be Sat nite. 


http://blueregal.angelfire.com/ My web page where you can link to everything of mine!!!!! You or anybody check it out!! 



http://www.livestream.com/crazytrainguyschannel/ My Channel 



Hope I didn't come across too uneasy.... it should be more "tired of being stalled" at the same impasse.
QSI/G-wire/Airwire - Are a big part of the problem for me as I seem to get them confused. 
Are all of these component of a DCC system, a DCC system in it's self or are they strictly different vendors parts you have meshed into a usable system? I guess it could be a NON DCC system that is strictly radio controlled?
You mentioned "let the beatings begin"... lol
Is it Safe to assume this is another one of those topics the experts differ on? How did you end up with these three components for your system?
Thank you again for sharing your experience. I will certainly try to figure out how and tune in to your live channel Sat and see what is going on.

QSI is the decoder, the g-wire is like a Airwire receiver for RC it plugs into the QSI Decoder which is just plug n play on aristo engines take 45 mins to install the whole works, The NCE Procab which I recommend or the T-9000 are the same type of throttle,I have both, which is your hand held transmitter. Talk to me if you like email me and we can set up a time live on my channel where I can show you the actual components and how they go in or at least on the phone we can pick each others brains. This topic usually starts a firestorm of this system is better than that one use mine over his. This works for me and is Easey Peasey to me over Phoenix, Airwire OEM equipment, and The Revolution by Aristo. So in the end you have to make the decision, but I can tell or show you how to make up one boxcar that when hooked to any Aristo engine or USA will have QSI sound decoder and control via G-wire and a battery set up but the QSI system will also work on track power also if you go that way!! Greg E. I another person if you can get ahold of him email or such and he knows more of the technical side of things I just know what works for me and is EASY not complicate and no elaborate wiring and such. Regal


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd: 

for what it's worth, here's how it went for me 

1. LGB starter sets in a loop around the pond at xmas--straight DC 
2. next year, slightly bigger loop, still straight DC with a passing siding 
3. Next year, still straight DC on the track, two locos with aristo 75 mhz decoder, two on conventional DC (now discontinued) 
4. later that year, still straight DC on the track all locos with remote control, some using aristo 75 mhz te, some using the QSI/Airwire combination 
5. Converted to DCC on the track, 9 locos with QSI decoders, three still on 75 mhz te. 

In the long run, having set up a good track with good conductivity, DCC was much cheaper. I knew that with any new loco I'd want sound, and having tried QSI I was sold on it. The QSI/Airwire or QSI/NCE system is very good, but it costs an additional 100 bucks for each loco. After 6 or so locos, the DCC system pays for itself. I've always been very aware of cost. If I'd gone with DCC from the start, I'd have saved a lot of money. 

PM me if you have any questions--I completely sympathize with EVERYTHING you are saying!


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

The sound works great with just DC. Last year in order to sound the horn I just flicked the polarity switch and then I picked up a quantum engineer for $50 that allows me to just push a button for the sound that I want. It works great. Unfortunately I had a train crash and fall over that blew a component in the Quantum engineer so I am back to using the polarity switch again until I find the part that I need to fix it. (only because I am too cheap to buy another quantum as they cost $100 here in Canada.I want too switch too DCC but I would rather spend $300 on a passenger car set. You can see what I run on my web site. I have tried to explain best I can what I have done on the site.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Idraw4u on 11 Aug 2010 03:51 PM 
Thank you... sometimes it is just easier to jump in and see where it goes. I doubt there is anyone on here that can argue with 40 years of experience.


[ I doubt there is anyone on here that can argue with 40 years of experience] Sure there are,







out with the old in with the new.







Lots of things have changed in 40 years as you can tell by buying the Revo.....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I still say, you have well over $500 invested with the Revolution TE from Aristocraft. Why not start out using it???? See if you like it. You may think it is just what you need! If not, okay, try something else, but you've already spent your money on the Revolution (2.4 GHz ARisto Train Engineer), why throw it away?? There area a lot of people on this forum who are extremely happy with this system.

Ed


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Idraw4u on 11 Aug 2010 01:35 PM 
okay... Over the last few years I have managed to accumulate 300 feet of brass track, three locos, a 10 amp power supply, a single throttle, a few switches, and 20+ cars. Most all of it is in the boxes in the closet. 
Every time I think I know what type of system I want to use to run all of this... I get information overload, second guess myself into confusion and put it all back in the boxes until the next Christmas.

Sites like this are FANTASTIC and I so appreciate all who have offered advice on prior posts! You can get a TON of information on every topic here...
But unless you know something about the topic to start with - the site can also be an utter nightmare of differing opinions and tech savvy people taking your thread in a new direction or talking over your head. 
What if you are just an average guy that likes trains and are trying to decide how to make them work. 

Because my wife wants sound on our holiday (direct DC to track) layout... she pushed me off the cliff and into the water by purchasing the Aristo TE 2.4MGZ "set" and a 6 pack of receivers (yea she is awesome). Of course the reason she picked that system ---- It was listed in a big ad on St. Aubins home page and it noted remote control and sound as features. No other reason...

Now as I am reading up on the system I find out, there are capacitor boards needed, smoke boards needed, that pending on the sound card I want to get, that there is a new board needed for some PW vs. Linear power issue and the list goes on. 
I have no idea what PW or Linear power does or if either will affect any of what I want to do. Nor do I know what capcitors, boards, controllers, 3amp, 5amp, 8amp, DCC, DCS, R/C things work with what, which are overkill or must have....
Honestly I feel like as a newbie I need to be an electrical AND mechanical engineer to comprehend how all of this is supposed to work. Problem with that is - There are electrical and mechanical engineers on here who can't agree, so I am not sure that would even help me..








Ray M. had me sold on DCS... until I found out that the system needs a fly wheel on the loco to work correctly and that the cost to add that is = to the cost of the loco - Scratch that one due to cost effectiveness.

More to the point - Aside from throwing large handfuls of money on the ol' tried and true method of "trial and error" - How did any of you decide on a system and figure out what works with it?

Thanks again for your input, your experiecne and opinions are appreicated. 

Todd



I was in the same boat as you a couple of years ago. I wanted to be able to control multiple trains in multiple directions with full independent control with sound as well. I wanted it to be wireless. I wanted it to be a simple as possible and not cost an arm and a leg, I did a ton of research and compared costs all over the place, and read till my eyes bled. 

I then came across the Gregs website and the QSI plug and play controller for the Aristo craft engines. It takes about 10 minutes to install in the newer yellow box Aristo engines. All you have to do is open up the engine remove the dummy plug drop it in and hook up the speaker and you done, it takes you 2x as long to open the engine as it does to install the controller/sound card it really is that simple. It has great sound with tons of options that you can learn as you go, and costs only around $120 per engine complete I paired this with NCE Power Pro 10r wireless DCC system which I got for $550. I also purchased a 10 amp 27volt regulated power supply for $85. Total cost for each additional engine is only the cost of the QSI board itself, no extra receivers, boosters or anything and again it so simple to hook up.


I know what your thinking DCC, bleech its so complicated. To be honest the NCE system is the simplest system you could imagine. I was up and runing in less than 15 minutes! What is really nice about it is it is so expandable that you'll never need another system, and as you learn more about it there is no limit to what can be done with it(it can control up to 999 engines lol ).


I had no prior experience with DCC when I started. I went from just running a single engine around my basement, to running multiple engine consists in opposite directions on a layout with 2 main lines, a 3 track rail yard and 10 DCC remote controlled switches in just a few months. 


When you compare total costs (remember the QSI is a High quality programmable digital sound board AND engine controler in one for only around $120), time/labor for installation (it literally just plugs in), and finally functionality, you can't beat it.


I hope this help you make your decision, if I can do it anybody can








Ron


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Another consideration is how much plug and play do you want, or do you want lots of extra control? 

I install Zimo decoders and have cab lights turn off automatically when engine starts to move, special light effects, and special smoke effects (smoke motor speed is controlled by the decoder). 

Of course this comes at a price, this decoder is some more money, but still under $200 for a 5 amp motor decoder plus reprogrammable sound.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Easy to get started......Put the track on the patio. Put the train on the track, hook up the transformer, turn it on. There, you're started. 


You could ALWAYS start by grading where you're going to put the layout, setting buildings and laying track ------- And worry about the fancy electronics stuff later. What good is a $5gazillion sound and control system if ya gots noplace to run?


Get off dead center, and the rest will follow.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

You mentioned you had all the track and such. I'd get my RR built first to see what type operations your going to do then plan on how you plan to operate it. Later RJD


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

idraw4u - 

All I have to say is thank you for asking the questions.







I am new into this as well. Your questions and the answers being given are helping me as well. But the one difference is that I have not purchased the electronics as of yet. I have multiple USA and Aristo locos but have not put any type of extra electronics into them.

Now for all of the patient G scale experts and teachers







- What my question is - where do I start? Is there a comparison of the systems somewhere?

I want to be wireless, have engine control, multiple trains on my mainline, full sound and the potential control over other goodies (lights, smoke, etc).

Where do I start? I can lay the track (to get started) out on the deck outside but that does not get me the wireless, engine control, multiple trains, sound and goodies. I want to play with the electronics... 

I am leaning towards DCC because of my experience with MTH O gauge trains. If this were the first requirement (DCC), what systems should I look at first?

I also joined a Garden Railroad Club in my area so that I can learn from them as well.

Dan


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By dperrott on 12 Aug 2010 03:35 PM 
idraw4u - 

All I have to say is thank you for asking the questions.







I am new into this as well. Your questions and the answers being given are helping me as well. But the one difference is that I have not purchased the electronics as of yet. I have multiple USA and Aristo locos but have not put any type of extra electronics into them.

Now for all of the patient G scale experts and teachers







- What my question is - where do I start? Is there a comparison of the systems somewhere?

I want to be wireless, have engine control, multiple trains on my mainline, full sound and the potential control over other goodies (lights, smoke, etc).

Where do I start? I can lay the track (to get started) out on the deck outside but that does not get me the wireless, engine control, multiple trains, sound and goodies. I want to play with the electronics... 

I am leaning towards DCC because of my experience with MTH O gauge trains. If this were the first requirement (DCC), what systems should I look at first?

I also joined a Garden Railroad Club in my area so that I can learn from them as well.

Dan









Dan, best of luck... with your layout.
You sound kind of like me, in that you have the components and have occasionally put the stuff on the ground you just are trying to wade through all the different ways to control the trains. 
Here is what I have gleaned thus far. 

(R/C) The Revolution system that my wife ordered is an strictly R/C system. Meaning it send commands to each individual receiver inside each individual loco (up to 50). The big advantage here is that it is NOT dependant upon a really good connection between the command unit and each piece of track. It seems like it will be great for just moving trains, but I am honestly concerned about the track power (what I want to run), the available functions I will be able to access and adding sound. I am still not sure about the whole sound card thing? I believe there are sound cards that you can plug into your reviver board (which is I think!!!! what I need) - then there are sound cards that are actual decoders as well. Those are more expensive but they control the train and sound so you don't have to by both. 
Now if they will work with the new Aristo Revolution - I have no clue. My best guess is that I will still need to spend $80 on a receiver. 

As for DCC I have heard good things about NCE and Digitrax. NCE seems to be a bit more popular. 
From what I understand on the DCC side - you purchase a "decoder" (QSI???) install it (plug and play on newer Aristos, but I have no clue on the USA Trains stuff) then buy a DCC system that consists of a throttle and a command unit. The command unit is wired in between the power supply and the track. It then sends the instructions through the track to the decoder you installed. If you want to do this remotely there are "wireless" throttles you and get. These in turn send instructions back to the command unit, which forwards them on to the decoder in the loco - again through the rails. Big problem here is people will tell you that sometimes programming a decoder can be a pain and you have to have a really solid track. Any problems in a track join can cause your DCC signal to get lost and or trains to become unresponsive.

That is what I know in a nutshell - Simple right ) 

DCC may have been the way to go.... I may see if my wife can put my order on hold ( I think it is back-ordered?) and rethink this. 
Also please ask any newbie question you may have… I know there are a ton of them that have not even thought of. 


Happy railroading…

Todd


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

The only thing making it hard to get into this hobby is *YOU*. The welcome mat is out from all of us, come on in...................Jim


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## caferacer (Jul 22, 2010)

Heck I no its hard to get into this hobby of ours I am 52 years old and have no idea at ALLon this great hobby I ask some really dumb questions and get help from all directions I have only just found this hobby,and its a rewarding one , coming from a model boat background I am still getting my head around DCC power, couplings and all manner of things. 
I really fine this site and the crew on it just great it may have taken me 52 years to get here and into trains but the rewards from the guys are HUGE I do not no a dam thing about g scale but I no its going to be fun to learn **** I do not no what even drives these locos yet haha, but I am keen to learn from strach the hobbys not hard with the wealth of help you can find here caferacer


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd, sounds like you understand a lot more than you give yourself credit for. 

Keep at it, you're on the right path. 

Regards, Greg 

(DCC and loving life)


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

DCC is really just a set of command protocols, a standardized set of digital codes. So different DCC gear, from different manufacturers, can work together. If you have a DCC rig, sending DCC through the track, you can use decoders from any manufacturer, including decoders to control switches, signals, lights and other accessories. There are several companies making large scale sound/motor controllers: QSI is the best known example 

DCC as a command set gives you a very sophisticated range of control over motor and lights and sound. There's lots to tinker with if you want, or you can just press go watch it go. 

There are ways to send DCC signals over the air, rather than through the rails: the Airwire system, and the QSI "Gwire" system both let you transmit DCC signals over the air. Airiwre makes its own decoders and throttle. QSI makes decoders and a receiver (the GWire card) and you can use either the Airwire throttle or the NCE Gwire throttle. In these systems, the DCC signals travel over the air, which means you can run the loco either on battery or on constant DC on the track


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It is all really confusing, and the manufacturers really need to hire some English majors. 

DCC is a set of command protocols. Each loco needs to have a "decoder" to translate those commands into action. The commands can come over the rails, which is most common, or over the air (see above post). 

The Aristo Revolution receiver is also a decoder, but it's not a DCC decoder. It uses its own proprietary control system: it does not send DCC commands. I have not tried the Aristo Revolution system: it seems to be very easy to use. A lot of people like it. Speaking for myself, I'm avoiding it. It's proprietary, and I still have a bunch of proprietary stuff from aristo that they discontinued, leaving me high and dry. Setting up sound for the thing is just nuts compared to how it works with, say, QSi--way more complicated. And to make it work well on track power, as I understand it, you need to add this enormous capacitor board, which is longer than the receiver/decoder itself. So if you want sound on DC power you have to stuff the receiver/decoder, the sound card, the cap board and I'm not sure what else into the loco, along with the multiple wires for each. You have to buy a sound card, and as far as I know you have only one choice: Phoenix. I might be wrong about that? 

It looks to me like Aristo is committing to battery power in a big way--Lewis Polk has pretty much admitted that on the forum. The Revolution, IMHO, appears to have been designed with battery power in mind. If I was starting out, and knew that I wanted track power and sound, I'd avoid it. I can't see any advantage to it compared to DCC: Aristo claims it's really easy to use because it's menu driven and there's a big LCD screen. I have not tried it, I need to keep stressing that. 

But DCC is not hard. It has a reputation for being complex which I think dates back to many many years ago, when it was new. With the NCE rig, for example, it's really easy. My daughter, age 5, can run the train. It only takes two wires to the track; there's no complicated wiring.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd,

You've got some questions about the sound boards. I've been using the Phoenix 2k2 boards, but going forward, I will be using the new board designed for constant track power, which is the PB9. Yes, the Phoenix board is separate from the aristo revoluton reciever, and NO, it does not just plug right in, at least, the 2k2 boards do not. However, I really like the Phoenix sound. It is easy to program using my computer, and I can program the sounds as long as the sound board is powered up. This means all I need is a power supply or battery, but I am track powered only, so an old transformer in the basment and a couple pieces of track do the trick. I think that for DCC, you'd need to plug your central station in to your test track or program your locomotive out on your track without other locomotives on the line. 

The features of the sound board can be triggered by a variety of inputs including: reed switches, voltage, or revo outputs. 
Reed switches:
Reed switches are long cylinders, about an inch long and about a quarter inch in diameter. These have two long wires so you can mount them to parts of your engine or rolling stock to trigger sounds. Historically, these have been used with magnets to control chuffing, whistle and bell sounds. Phoenix used to include 3 reed switches, sound card, low voltage battery, programming port, volume switch, and speaker with all their sound boards. You mikado has a speaker in the tender, so if you got a PB9 card, you could order the kit without the speaker. 

Voltage:
For straight analog running, the phoenix boards come programmed to do certain things at certain voltages. Example: the standard road crossing whistle (two long, short, long) blow at a set voltage. The bell rings until a certain voltage, and then stops. It starts again when you slow down to a certain voltage. (I personally found this to be annoying, and when I set up the revo, I decided to control all this myself).

REVO (and I assume non-sound DCC systems)
With on board controllers, you can choose to eliminate the reed switches for triggering the whistle and bell, like I did. The REVO outputs can be set to trigger momentarily or latching. Momentarily closing the switch means that as soon as the trigger stops (my finger comes off the button), the whistle stops. Button 2 I have set as a latching button, so it starts the bell ringing and 2 is pressed again to stop the bell ringing. In the Phoenix programming, you can select what your inputs do, so there is more flexibility there. They have choices in what kind of whistle you want, what kind of bell you want (mechancial or hand-rung), how the chuff is triggered (I had trouble getting a good chuff in my mallet, the magnets I was using kept slipping and sliding out of position. I would assume that DCC triggers can be set in a similar way. I'm not DCC, so leave that to others to discuss. Of the 6 or so outputs from the REVO, I tend to use only 3 with any regularity: whistle, bell, and smoke. Although now that Tom brought it up, I realized that I don't really need to control it with the REVO, I could just use the switches in the locomotive. 

The backlit screen is a nice feature, and the other night I used that to light my way to and from a locomotive I left out on the tracks. 

Hope that helps you some with the sound. Yes, it is a bit complex. But, that's because it is a little harder to describe in words than just showing you.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm still trying to get into this hobby. There's so much to learn I think I'll maintain my beginner status for a long, long time and leave expert status to the Master Builders.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 13 Aug 2010 07:00 AM
I think that for DCC, you'd need to plug your central station in to your test track or program your locomotive out on your track without other locomotives on the line. 





















For what it's worth, this isn't true--at least with NCE/QSI you can program all the Cvs/features while the engine is running on the mainline. The only time you need a programming track is if you are changing the sound file entirely


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike,

I meant that if you wanted to reprogram your engine, you'd need to put it on a track with the DCC central station hooked to that track. Or is that wrong and all you need is the locomotive to be powered up on any piece of track?


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 13 Aug 2010 11:02 AM 
Mike,

I meant that if you wanted to reprogram your engine, you'd need to put it on a track with the DCC central station hooked to that track. Or is that wrong and all you need is the locomotive to be powered up on any piece of track? 


you may not know the answer to this one (not being DCC), but if I go with a Phoenix sound card on a DCC layout, will the Phoenix card act as the decoder, or would that work in conjunction "with" a decoder?


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Phoenix is a sound card only. Not a decoder. 

Here is a link to their website where you can hear their sound files. 

www.phoenixsound.com


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark, you can do any programming of the sounds on the main track--stuff like the overall volume, or relative volume of the bell compared to the chuff, or the way the chuff responds to inertia, or whether or not the brakes squeal and when. If you want to change from, say, steam file to a diesel file, or change from, say, a PRR banshee whistle to a different whistle altogether, you have to connect to the computer. I have a Phoenix 2k2 card and although I don't have the software I saw it done once on the Phoenix card. It looked similar. 

Todd the Phoenix card is sound ONLY. It can't control motor functions or lights. The latest Phoenix cards will respond to DCC sound commands, but it can't run the motor


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

OK - I need a simple recommendation to start out. I purchased a USA Burlington F3 AB engine set. I would like to put DCC with wireless control with sound, engine, smoke, and light control. I will not use battery at this time but use rail power. I do not want to use the Aristocraft Revolution system but would like to stay with a DCC system. 

What do I need to purchase to test this out? Is the QSI's NCE/Gwire remote throttle? 

What type of receivers need to be installed in the engine(s)? What type of track power do I need? Do I need to install separate Phoenix sound boards? Does the DCC control the sound too? Can this system be changed over to battery in the future? 

Lots of questions... I am excited to try this all out. How much does this cost to get an engine set up? 

Thanks for everyones input in advance. 

Dan


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan: 

You want to run DC track power with DCC signals delivered over the ai?, ok, you can do that, I've done it. it works well 

For track power you need @20 volts on the rails--that's just to make sure you can run at reasonably high speeds. 

It's not cheap 
You would need to buy 
1. QSI decoder ($125-170) 
2. QSI "Gwire" receiver card, which plugs into the decoder ($100) 
3. EITHER the NCE "gwire cab"/ throttle OR the Airwire cab/throttle (cab and throttle are kind of two words for the same thing. The NCE throttle is easier to use--bigger,. but much easier to deal with 

You only need to buy one throttle/cab, but for any subsequent loco you'd need to buy a decoder and a Gwire card. 

Ok, once you have all this, you need to install the decoder in the USAT loco. It's not hard, but you need to cut some wires. I've never done in in one of those locos, so I can't say for sure. Basically, it's pretty simple--find all the leads that carry track power from the trucks, and connect them to the two outer pins on the QSI card. Take the leads that connect to the motors, and connect them to the next two pins. Greg's website has much more detail. You will need to scrounge up a speaker if there isn't one already in there--the QSI decoder comes with a cable to connect a speaker 

Once it's connected, you will be good to go. You DO NOT need to install a Phoenix sound board if you have a QSI decoder--the QSI decoder has motor control and sound on one board. 

Yes, you can switch this rig to batteries, and it will work just as it did on track power 

DCC is fun and not hard, but the manual for QSI is not great. It will be set to run well from the factory--you can control the sounds using the throttle. As you get into it, you can tweak it more and more.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark, clarification: all products that "decode" DCC commands are decoders. The Phoenix boards are DCC sound decoders. The QSI is a combination sound and motor decoder. The NCE decoders are motor only. There are also accessory decoders that are designed to control switches, relays, etc. There are also lighting effects decoders that are meant to control lights and have special effects like ditch lights, strobes, mars lights, etc. 

These are all "decoders"... 

Regards, Greg


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## dperrott (Aug 12, 2010)

OK - this all makes sense. Another question though..

The F3 AB has 4 motors - 2 in the A unit and 2 in the B unit. Does one decoder work all 4 motors or do I need 4 decoders (2 in A unit, 2 in B unit) or do I need 2 decoders (1 in the A unit and 1 in the B unit)?


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

1 for each engine.

Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nicer to use one decoder per physical loco. Then they can run independently, or consisted together. Most decoders are designed to handle the current of one loco only. There are decoders that can handle 2 locos, but it's not common. 

The idea of "consisting" where you can add and remove locos from a consist is very powerful in DCC where the locos know "where" they are in the consist, so lights and sound behave accordingly, like when consisted, only the bell and horn respond from the lead loco, but all locos operate bell and horn when running independently, no extra programming required when adding and removing. This "advanced consisting" is really only available in DCC, other systems can do basic features, but kluge the more sophisticated functions. 

Regards, Greg


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, I believe that the Revolution TE also recognizes where a given engine is in a consist, and only lights the lights on the lead engine, and possibly the horn and bell also. And I agree with you, that is a nice feature.

Ed


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## pagosarr (Jan 5, 2008)

I have been following this thread with intense interest in hopes I would somehow stumble across a "bible" which would tell me everything I needed to know about DCC. Even though the topic of the thread wasn't conducive to learning about DCC, I still had hope I would somehow find answers to what I really wanted to know about DCC. Please be assured I have DCC "how to" books, multiple bookmarks for DCC websites, and PDFs about DCC all of which leave me in a state of confusion and all of which I suspect are somewhat less than reliable information. I am amused that on the NCE website: 

http://www.ncedcc.com/ 

there is a PDF entitled "What the heck is DCC anyway?" 

At the end of that PDF there are two bullet points: 

1) Don't buy anything (yet) 

2) Try different systems to see which suits you best - get the one YOU like. 

Well, golly gee. If I abide by bullet point (1) I am back to where I was ~20 years ago. I don't get highly enthused about bullet point (2) as I'm not sure I have the $$$ or life expectancy (I'm 76) to fulfill that advice. 

To tell you the truth, there is only just ONE critical bit of of information that might persuade me to consider DCC as a marginal/viable option to conventional track management. What is it? How does one deal with reverse loops? If you have to deal with all the gobbleygook of reversing track polarity to use DCC, than DCC has absolutely no utility as far as I'm concerned. I'll just stay with plain old DC track voltage/polarity. 

Be well. 

Roger Bush 
Comfort TX


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ed, the Revo is just barely capable of consisting features as compared to DCC... It does not and cannot do the bell separately between locos as far as I can tell, because it does not really know where the bell is, but this is not a contest. The question was about DCC. 

Roger, reversing loops are incredibly simple... you put insulated joiners on the reversing section. That stops the short circuit. Then you spend $45 for an "autoreverser". You locate it out by the insulated section. 

You take 2 wires from the main line rails and connect it to autoreverser inputs (no polarity there, either wire to either input), then you take the 2 outputs from the autoreverser and connect them to the rails of the insulated section. You are done. There is no polarity, only 4 wires, 2 in and 2 out. Self powered. 

There are some "rules" for reversing sections, but basically it should be longer than your train. If not, there are simple ways around that rule too. There is no limit to the number of reversing loops and you can even "nest" a reversing loop within another reversing loop. 

It is far simpler than DC in this case, it's all automatic, cheap, and easy. 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

With the Revolution, you can toggle between which locos in a consist you want to control in terms of lights and sounds. I think it's the asterisk key to select which one. I don't remember if it automatically kills the headlight on the second loco or not, as my headlights are either wired to one of the 6 aux functions or hardwired to the power. If it doesn't, it's easy enough to toggle to that loco and kill the headlight through the menu. 

In terms of DCC and reverse loops, DCC is probably the easiest form of track power to use in conjunction with reverse loops. Lots of products that will automatically switch the track polarity for you when the wheels hit the break in the track. Many detect the momentary short and switch the power, while others use a very short isolated section of track (around 1" long) to use to trigger the change. Massoth makes a reverse loop module that works for DCC (or any constant-track-voltage system regardless of command protocol) as well as regular analog track power. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Again, I did NOT say the Revo does not do some form of consisting, it's just less full featured as compared to DCC. If you wish to argue this point, please study DCC consisting and capabilities deeply first. Doing it manually is possible of course... doh... that's really sophisticated... NOT... (also, not real straightforward, use the asterisk key...) 

Also, on the subject of autoreversers, the ones that use a "triggering section" are just really DC ones that will work on AC, like the Massoth, there is no reason to use that type on DCC, by far the majority in use are as I mentioned. Again, while technically true, the points you are making are not the "mainstream" for DCC. You are adding complexity that is more distracting than helpful. 

He's asking about DCC, so leave the Revo "wannabe" and overly complex hardware implementations of autoreversers out of it please to reduce confusion. 

This is the beginners forum, let's not play "who knows more trivia"... let's give mainstream and simple answers... 

Thanks, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Again, I did NOT say the Revo does not do some form of consisting, 
Nor did I make any such implication. I was clarifying Ed's point about how the Revolution specifically handles consisting relative to controlling various light and sound functions. I made no comparative statements between it and DCC. If I were to, you'd find I'm quite in agreement that DCC is decidedly more full featured in that regard. (As it is in many arenas.) 

Also, on the subject of autoreversers, the ones that use a "triggering section" are just really DC ones that will work on AC, like the Massoth, there is no reason to use that type on DCC, by far the majority in use are as I mentioned. Again, while technically true, the points you are making are not the "mainstream" for DCC. You are adding complexity that is more distracting than helpful. 
According to Massoth, their autoreverser is _every bit_ intended for use by the DCC market. It's marketed specifically as an alternative to the systems that trigger on a short circuit. As they promote it, the big issue with the "mainstream" systems that trigger on a short circuit is that when the wheel creates the short, there's an arc, and that pits the wheels. Over time, that makes for lousy electrical pick-up. I don't run track power, so I have no idea how prevalent that issue might in reality be. But I'm also one who believes that short circuits--no matter how momentary--aren't necessarily good for electronics, and will gladly recommend a system designed to avoid them. When you read the instructions, the Massoth unit is at its most simple and full-functioned in the DCC/constant track voltage environment. You've got to jump through a series of extra hoops to use the system in an analog (variable) DC environment. 

He's asking about DCC, so leave the Revo "wannabe" and overly complex hardware implementations of autoreversers out of it please to reduce confusion. 
Who's "he?" Roger? I didn't mention anything relative to the Revolution in my response to his query about autoreversers. Todd? (the topic originator) He _has_ the Revolution, and is specifically asking for feedback relative to that system or any of the alternatives--specifically looking for insight behind why we chose the particular control systems we chose. 

... let's give mainstream and simple answers... 
Who gets to define "mainstream?" The beginner has no concept of what the majority of anyone is doing, and that's quite liberating. Any notion put forth as a possibility to the beginner is as "mainstream" as any other notion. As a result, they can find what specifically suits them, free from influence of what "everyone" is doing. Simple? I can tell someone something is "simple," but the reality is that I'm telling them it's simple _to me._ There is no way I can put myself in their shoes and gauge their comprehension. (I have a 4-year-old. I'm reminded of this on a daily basis.) I will not limit any discussion only to the "simple" and "mainstream." There's simply no point to having the discussion with such artificial limitations. 

The title of this thread is "Hard to get into this hobby." I don't know that "hard" is quite the right word, but at the level of looking at control systems, certainly quite daunting. It's rather akin to walking into a buffet without having a clue what you're hungry for. There's a reason I spent half a year's worth of my GR Basics column discussing the systems--and could have easily gone more. There's a lot to consider. Todd's opening post sums it up very well. The problem is, there are no "mainstream" or "simple" answers to the question. If there were, it wouldn't be among the top questions that keeps coming up for discussion. Each of us has our own opinions because each of us operates in different ways. 

I don't think Todd's questions can be answered. We can tell him "X" throttle works with "Y" sound system, etc--that's all technical and quantifiable. Heck, I've been doing this for 34 years, and I still have those same questions about new products as they come on the market. It changes too quickly to fully stay on top of everything. And certainly, the Revolution system he currently has will run his trains and allow him to blow the whistle, ring the bell, etc. He's not going to know whether he's happy with that until he installs it, operates it, and discovers for himself whether it's adequate for his needs. Todd's at an advantage in that he's _got_ the system as a starting point. Others, like Roger, don't have that luxury and they're left to--quite literally--pay their money and take their chances. Fortunately, there's as much a market for used control systems as there is used locomotives. People are still buying the old 27mHz trackside Train Engineers. _Someone_ will want your old stuff. 

Later, 

K


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd go QSI/G-wire and procab do battery power, and you can go anywhere you want in any direction as long as it's not head on into another engine. No muss no fuss no reverse loop wiring just run yer trains as many as you want in any direction, and always avoid collisions.. Hah LOL Regal Easey Peasey! The word of the day!!


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Idraw4u wrote "I very much want to run multiple trains, some longer and some shorter, do a bit of switching and so on. It is also important to me to be able to be walk around with the control, be able to throw a few switches remotely and of course work the smoke, lights and sound on the locos."

Sorry but QSI can't run the lights or the smoke unit..only the motors & the sound.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

QSI can run the headlights on an off, if you want to do more than that you need a add on decoder for lights, very inexpensive. Not sure abut the smoke


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## Dwayne (Jun 10, 2010)

Interesting thread. I believe the title should have been, "Getting Started in this Hobby is Confusing". 

It's actually easy to get into it... put some track down, connect a power pack, drop an engine on the rails and play.

All the responses about this and that product throughout the thread lead to the confusion that new modelers must sift through in an attempt to make sense of it all. And it's because of this confusion that many become frustrated and perhaps don't pursue the hobby long term. 

But perhaps some of the fault is that of the new modeler. Instead of adhering to KISS, they want to have it all right now. Sound, smoke, lights, multiple unit lashups, miles of track and tons of equipment. Impatience leads to frustration. Frustration leads to giving up and finding something else to do with limited free time.

When I meet someone interested in getting into this hobby who thinks BIG before testing the waters I recommend this link: http://mjhfoster.webs.com/ 

KISS abounds at this modelers site. And what is inspiring is he actually enjoys the hobby. 

This hobby is very easy to get into. The hard thing is for the new modeler to simply adhere to KISS.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, nothing is more encouraging to a beginner than a lecture about how he "wants too much." 

The original poster, has already dropped rails down and played--he has done it three years running with a holiday setup. Now he wants to make it permanent. He want some information, about ways to proceed, not a religious war between system X and system y, or a lecture about how to conduct himself.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

i just reread the whole thread. 
it is typical: "but no!" - "but yes!" - but slightly different!" - "but not that slightly!" 

gentlemen, THIS IS THE BEGINNER FORUM!! 
i must say, again you tried your very best, to shy beginners away.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I too have found this thread to be following an interesting direction. The original poster says "My wife is getting me the Revolution TE and I'm confused about features of it, and added requirements to use it". But the thread has turned into one of "tell your wife she got the wrong thing, sell the Revolution and go DCC". Not to argue which one is "better", but there are many folks happy with the REvolution, so why not try the one already purchased. Essentially, looking forward, it is a "no cost" option. Try it and see if it meets your needs. If it doesn't, THEN consider selling it and getting DCC. My response to your post, Greg, was merely responding to your comment that ONLY with DCC could you control lights, etc. As Kevin has said, better than I did, you can control these features with the Revolution; maybe not as elegantly as DCC, but it does work. When I combine a consist with my Revolution, the system does indeed know which is the "front" engine and only turns on the lights on that engine. I just wanted to remind him, that again, he can do that with the Revolution. 

I am not implying that one system is better than the other. The point is that he has already spent the money for the Revolution. Why upset his wife, why spend more money without trying what you already have??

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I DID NOT SAY THAT. 

Here are quotes from my posts above: 

"Ed, the Revo is just barely capable of consisting features as compared to DCC... It does not and cannot do the bell separately between locos as far as I can tell, because it does not really know where the bell is, but this is not a contest. The question was about DCC. " 

"Again, I did NOT say the Revo does not do some form of consisting, it's just less full featured as compared to DCC. If you wish to argue this point, please study DCC consisting and capabilities deeply first. Doing it manually is possible of course... doh... that's really sophisticated... NOT... (also, not real straightforward, use the asterisk key...) " 

PLEASE DO NOT SAY I SAID SOMETHING UNLESS YOU READ IT. BOTH YOU AND KEVIN HAVE IGNORED WHAT IS IN PRINT RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACES. 

You are both not reading, or trying to twist my words on purpose. Either way this sucks big time, especially on the beginners forum. I gave simple answers and now there's tons of stupid junk added to the thread, but I'm not letting either of you twist my words in such obvious circumstances. 

What I said is clearly posted above. Anyone can read them. 

By the way I am not telling him he has the wrong equipment, I'm just answering the questions about what systems can do. A question about autoreversers was answered. A question about capabilities in consisting was asked. 

Hats off to the OP who is open enough to ask questions, rather than blindly defending the purchase. 

Greg


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

My humble apologies, Greg, I did indeed misquote you. I said that you said "the Revolution cannot separately control lights", or something to that effect. In reality you were talking about bells. My comment still stands though, you can control bells separately because the Revolution does indeed know which engine is the front one in the consist. That was my whole point in the post. And please do me the honor also of reading MY posts. I did not say you said that the Revolution did consists as well as DCC, in fact I alluded to the fact that it might not do it as elegantly, but it DOES provide some capability in that regard.

I suggest we drop this now, as we are definitely not helping beginners. Again I apologize for trying to correct one of your statements. I should have known better.

Ed


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Idraw4u on 11 Aug 2010 01:35 PM 
okay... Over the last few years I have managed to accumulate 300 feet of brass track, three locos, a 10 amp power supply, a single throttle, a few switches, and 20+ cars. Most all of it is in the boxes in the closet. 
Every time I think I know what type of system I want to use to run all of this... I get information overload, second guess myself into confusion and put it all back in the boxes untill the next Christmas.

Sites like this are FANTASTIC and I so appreicate all who have offered advice on prior posts! You can get a TON of information on every topic here...
But unless you know something about the topic to start with - the site can also be an utter nightmare of differing opinions and tech savvy people taking your thread in a new direction or talking over your head. 
What if you are just an average guy that likes trains and are trying to decide how to make them work. 

Because my wife wants sound on our holiday (direct DC to track) layout... she pushed me off the cliff and into the water by purchasing the Aristo TE 2.4MGZ "set" and a 6 pack of receivers (yea she is awesome). Of course the reason she picked that system ---- It was listed in a big ad on St. Aubins home page and it noted remote control and sound as features. No other reason...

Now as I am reading up on the system I find out, there are capacitor boards needed, smoke boards needed, that pending on the sound card I want to get, that there is a new board needed for some PW vs. Linear power issue and the list goes on. 
I have no idea what PW or Linear power does or if either will affect any of what I want to do. Nor do I know what capcitors, boards, controllers, 3amp, 5amp, 8amp, DCC, DCS, R/C things work with what, which are overkill or must have....
Honestly I feel like as a newbie I need to be an electrical AND mechanical engineer to comprehend how all of this is supposed to work. Problem with that is - There are electrical and mechanical engineers on here who can't agree, so I am not sure that would even help me..








Ray M. had me sold on DCS... until I found out that the system needs a fly wheel on the loco to work correctly and that the cost to add that is = to the cost of the loco - Scratch that one due to cost effectiveness.

More to the point - Aside from throwing large handfuls of money on the ol' tried and true method of "trial and error" - How did any of you decide on a system and figure out what works with it?

Thanks again for your input, your experiecne and opinions are appreicated. 

Todd

Todd,

There is just no way around doing your own research and leg work to figure out what is best for your tastes and needs.

Regarding your statement "_Ray M. had me sold on DCS... until I found out that the system needs a fly wheel on the loco to work correctly and that the cost to add that is = to the cost of the loco - Scratch that one due to cost effectiveness._" I'm not sure who you were talking to that made you arrive at that conclusion but it wasn't me. The truth is the cost of the flywheel (on those that need them) is $20-25 (with the USA Hudson being the only exception). I'm glad I could be of assistance in helping you work through your decision making process, but I really don't appreciate your posting untrue and misleading information such as this. The people that contact me for conversion work want their engines to function, sound and smoke exactly as mine do and that takes a bit more time then just hooking up a couple of wires for power and sound for a sound card.

Additional reference: http://www.mylargescale.com/Comm...127641 page 2


Raymond


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 15 Aug 2010 08:49 PM 

There is just no way around doing your own research and leg work to figure out what is best for your tastes and needs.

Regarding your statement "_Ray M. had me sold on DCS... until I found out that the system needs a fly wheel on the loco to work correctly and that the cost to add that is = to the cost of the loco - Scratch that one due to cost effectiveness._" I'm not sure who you were talking to that made you arrive at that conclusion but it wasn't me. The truth is the cost of the flywheel (on those that need them) is $20-25 (with the USA Hudson being the only exception). I'm glad I could be of assistance in helping you work through your decision making process, but I really don't appreciate your posting untrue and misleading information such as this. The people that contact me for conversion work want their engines to function, sound and smoke exactly as mine do and that takes a bit more time then just hooking up a couple of wires for power and sound for a sound card.

Additional reference: http://www.mylargescale.com/Comm...127641 page 2


Raymond

Raymond - I sincerely apologize. I meant no misleading information or other malice.
You have been MORE than helpful and one who has gone way out of his way both on and off the forum to help me understand trains in general, DCS and other aspects. I am truly appreciative of your help.

Evidently I mistook the information on your website to indicate that your typical fee for converting a Aristo Dash 9 to be approx. $350, an Aristo Mallet to be $325 and so on and since this as I understand it is not something that typical newbie would understand, be able to complete or even have the tools to complete. It appeared to me to be an expensive option.
The only other option I was (am) aware of to get into DCS is to purchase MTH equipment that is DCS ready.
For future trains a person may add, this may be a viable option - but again "as I understand it" - MTH does not make 1:29 scale trains so I would then have different scale locos and so on. Not an overwhelming problem but something to consider.

So for all those reading this - long story short - Raymond is a WEALTH of train information in general and a DCS expert to boot. He can and is always willing to lend his input and expertise on a topic.

I did not intend to indicate that DCS was an inferior or more complicated a system as a whole.
I simply meant to say that based on what I know about the DCS system, it is an amazing system but it is a bit more complicated to install in a loco (flywheel and so on) than I am comfortable or at this time capable of and certainly not plug and play for a loco you may already have.

Raymond, I apologize again.

Todd


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the cost of conversion is not expensive if you look at the published costs, which Todd has accurately and confirmed by Raymond before. 

The DCS electronics are very cheap compared to other competing systems, and the cost of the flywheel at $20 to $25 is negligable. 

But, most people cannot do this conversion themselves, and we are forgetting to add the cost of shipping a loco both ways to the total cost. 

Again I am comparing doing this yourself to having it done for you. 

If your only option is to have someone do your install for you, then Raymond's conversion is very cost competitive. 

I don't think though, this was INTENTIONAL "untrue and misleading" information from Todd, I read it as his point of view for himself. 

This is the beginners forum, and Todd is a beginner, beating up on him is not right. 

Regards, Greg


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

After rereading most of this post and now feeling a bit like I should have kept my mouth shut as opposed to asking for helpâ€¦. 
Iâ€™ll say this. 
I am simply trying to â€œdo the leg work and get the informationâ€�. I am trying to see most of the big picture BEFORE I fall into something that will cost me hundreds if not thousands of $. 
I do have track on the ground, I have straight out of the box DC locos, I do on occasion run them and I do put up a direct DC layout every holiday. 
So I feel like I am moving in the right directionâ€¦ yet most of the 7 pages of this post are over my head, not on topic or just plain argumentativeâ€¦ 
HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THAT MAKE THIS HOBBY "EASY TO GET INTO"? 

I liken this to saying I like chocolate. I know I like chocolate â€" but ask a question about it here and all of the sudden you find out there are a million types of chocolate, everyone thinks theirs is the best and begins to put the others down by telling you how it is made and why theirs is better and make you dislike one over the other. 
In some strange way the effort is always very much appreciated and I know it is all well intended - but as a newbie all I truly know is â€œI like chocolateâ€� and am now confused as to why. 

One member posted - "The only thing making it hard to get into this hobby is YOU. The welcome mat is out from all of us, come on in". 
Thank you, I appreciate your input. I do generally feel welcome and am in about as far as I can go before having to take my next big (costly) step... BUTâ€¦ I whole heartedly disagree that the only thing making it hard is "you" (me). 
Have you read this post? 
3000+ hits on this one topic alone is IMHO a pretty good indicator that this is not an easy hobby to get into. There are about 60 posts/replies on this thread, yet 3000+ hits on it? From a newbie stand point, I am willing to bet that a lot of those reading this are just as confused as I am, just as cautious about something that will cost them hundreds of dollars, and overall find it just as difficult (hard) to proceed as myself. 

I asked a specific question ------ " How did any of you decide on a system and work works with it?" - 
There are now 7 pages of responses and most don't have an answer to any question, never mind an answer to my specific question. The topic went from what works for you - to - mine is bigger and better and why. 
Lownote and a few others were down and dirty with great answers. They simply said I started with "X", liked this about it, didn't like that and am now sold on "X'. 
That is all most any of us newbies are asking for. A simple answer to what your doing and why it has worked for youâ€¦ it is after all the â€œbeginnerâ€� forum. 

I donâ€™t know, maybe hard to get into is not the correct way to put it? 
Anyone can wade to their ankles in the water and be technically in it. That is (as several have pointed out) not "hard" to do. 
The hard part is knowing the next step you are about to take is where you know you will drop in over your head... This is what most of us "newbies" are trying to understand before we take the leap. So while "hard" may not best define the issue at hand - I think it suits my situation well enough


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I may have not suggested this, but I have some sections on my site, the FAQ's for Beginners that is my "take" at analyzing what you want from a layout and how to decide battery vs. track power, and what type of control system. 

Personally, I'm very happy with the decisions I have made, but try not to get into "mine is better", but to stay to facts that can be demonstrated. 

I don't know why the "choice" has to be so emotional. I'm not going to bed at night all upset because someone is running something different than I am. 

Likewise, I have recommended systems other than what I use, when I feel that's the right choice for the person asking. 

I don't make any money from trains, I don't have a business installing or selling train stuff, I don't get money or free equipment from any manufacturer, in fact I refuse such offers. I also don't write for manufacturers (unless I want to), magazines or hold a position where I could be pressured on what to say. I quit forums where I have to "drink the kool aid". 

All of those things allow me to speak my mind based on what I know and believe, honestly and openly. Maybe too openly for some, but life is short, ha ha! 

Keep asking questions and you will get there Todd! The "best" answer is sometimes elusive! 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

"How did any of you decide on a system and work works with it?" 

I guess I missed this question or don't recall answering directly. 

Timeline: 1985-2002:
I was regular DC track power with variable transformers for years. 
I wanted wireless control of the trains. Went to a train show and had fun using the aristocraft train engineer. I really liked the ability to walk around with my train. 

Spring 2002:
I blindly bought the LGB Multi-train system ($$$) to run my LGB Mikado. I thought that it would be like the programable logic control devices I had gotten accustomed to at work. It was not, and furthermore, I didn't know anyone else nearby using that system. So, for years, it sat in my basement, but I did find it a new home for almost what I paid for it. Sold in 2008.

Spring 2004: I bought a regular Aristo train engineer to run my trains (one at a time) outside on the garden line. That worked great for a long time. In fact, it still works. I used it as a simple remote control to drive a train. 

Summer 2009: I started to read up on the Aristo Revolution train engineer. I watched some of the ECLSTS seminars on Youtube and then talked to two trusted friends who had gotten that system. It turned out that what I use my trains for and that particular system would work quite well together. For me, one of the big selling points of a piece of equipment is the ability to "Play Trains" with others. I have no less than 3 large scalers who I get together with on irregular intervals to run trains. It turns out that this particular system will work on everyone's layout, since we're all set up the same way. The controller and the receiver are paired, and there is no base station, like in the LGB MTS system. For me, the success of my friends prompted me to give it a try when my wife offered it for an anniversary gift. I've not regretted that decision. 

Does that help any?


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 16 Aug 2010 01:06 PM 
"How did any of you decide on a system and work works with it?" 

I guess I missed this question or don't recall answering directly. 

Timeline: 1985-2002:
I was regular DC track power with variable transformers for years. 
I wanted wireless control of the trains. Went to a train show and had fun using the aristocraft train engineer. I really liked the ability to walk around with my train. 

Spring 2002:
I blindly bought the LGB Multi-train system ($$$) to run my LGB Mikado. I thought that it would be like the programable logic control devices I had gotten accustomed to at work. It was not, and furthermore, I didn't know anyone else nearby using that system. So, for years, it sat in my basement, but I did find it a new home for almost what I paid for it. Sold in 2008.

Spring 2004: I bought a regular Aristo train engineer to run my trains (one at a time) outside on the garden line. That worked great for a long time. In fact, it still works. I used it as a simple remote control to drive a train. 

Summer 2009: I started to read up on the Aristo Revolution train engineer. I watched some of the ECLSTS seminars on Youtube and then talked to two trusted friends who had gotten that system. It turned out that what I use my trains for and that particular system would work quite well together. For me, one of the big selling points of a piece of equipment is the ability to "Play Trains" with others. I have no less than 3 large scalers who I get together with on irregular intervals to run trains. It turns out that this particular system will work on everyone's layout, since we're all set up the same way. The controller and the receiver are paired, and there is no base station, like in the LGB MTS system. For me, the success of my friends prompted me to give it a try when my wife offered it for an anniversary gift. I've not regretted that decision. 

Does that help any? 


Absolutely!!! Nailed it. 
No - details that are over a newbies head. Simply stated... this is what works for you and how you got to where you are.
Thank you!!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I can't match that, my story is too boring. 

I was on DC until I got ready to pick something. I read a lot, talked to a lot of people, and considered what features I needed. 

The only answer for me was DCC and SS track. Did not want proprietary system, or being locked into only one supplier, and wanted lots of functions and flexibility. 

When I started, 50% of the people said it was impossible outside, but my research showed how HO started and how DCC equipment evolved. 

So, the first system I bought was NCE 10 amp system, and after one small test loop of brass (LGB, USA, and Aristo) went to all stainless rail. 

Been way too happy with this, no mistakes, no changing to another system. 

In the mean time, I have evaluated and tested Aristo TE, Revo, Airwire, Locolinc, DCS.... I'm still happy and would change in an instant if I found a system better suited. 

But, I researched and talked to a lot of people before I bought anything, maybe 3-4 years on DC. I always looked to what I wanted to do in the future, not just right now. 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

My story is easier QSI/G-wire & NCE QSI procab!! Easey Peasey AGAIN!!!!, but then again no one listens to me, but I DO listen to Greg E. alot!! Hah LOL Regal


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm in a unique position in that I do have many systems that I use, and choose between them based on specific need. In the interest of full disclosure, some are review samples provided by the manufacturer. (You can read my reviews of both the Revoluton and the NCE/QSI/G-wire systems on _Garden Railways_ web site.) I find both of them to be quite nice and very comparable on many levels. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, but those strengths and weaknesses play well to different scenarios, so life is good. 

What drives my personal choice? Quite honestly, it has little to do with the control system itself. There is nothing inherent in any one control system's operation that is a "must have" over any others for me. I don't want to control every last little nuance of sound and speed, so the higher-end DCC functions aren't important to me. They're really cool, but I just don't play at that level. I want to control very basic sounds (bell, whistle) and have the train move where and how I want it to. I want good range, and an intuitive control interface. On all these points, both the Revolution and NCE/QSI system are on pretty even footing. What drives my choice is the externals of the particular installation. Often, I've got existing 3rd-party sound systems that I need to control. The NCE/QSI combination doesn't work with them, the Revolution does. So, on locos where I'm using those sound systems, I've got to use the Revolution. If I want to control auxiliary lights (cab lights, class lamps, etc.), I'm also limited by the functionality of the QSI, since it does not allow me to control them when using the G-wire receiver. (I'm told QSI is working on that, which will be cool.) So, if I'm doing an install where I want to control specific lights (not just headlights) I've got to turn to the Revolution as well. On installations where neither of those restrictions apply, it comes down to specific sounds. Depending on what the particular locomotive is, I'll go through both QSI's and Phoenix's sound library to find the specific sound I want for that engine. If the sounds are more or less equal, I do tip the scales to the NCE control interface just a bit, because I like the thumbwheel and its very simple momentum adjustment. (My ideal controller has the NCE's keypad with the Revolution's graphic display.) 

That's probably a pretty quirky way of making my choice, but that's really what motivates me. I think it speaks well to how closely matched these two systems really are in terms of the core functions that most of us look for. Again, though, I have the luxury of choosing which of the two systems is best for a particular installation, since I have both controllers. Truthfully, if I had to choose a system, I'd base the choice not on the Revolution vs. QSI, but Phoenix (sound) vs. QSI. Control is one thing, but what's being controlled is often even more important. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin's post makes me want to bring up another point: 

Going by how people made their choice years ago might not be a good criteria now. 

When I started, sound was very expensive and limited, and few people had it. Now, it is much more popular, and to me, required. 

So the last paragraph of what Kevin posted is very relevant to the "progress" of large scale railroading. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Idraw4u on 16 Aug 2010 11:16 AM 
After rereading most of this post and now feeling a bit like I should have kept my mouth shut as opposed to asking for help…. 
I’ll say this. 
I am simply trying to “do the leg work and get the information”. I am trying to see most of the big picture BEFORE I fall into something that will cost me hundreds if not thousands of $. 
I do have track on the ground, I have straight out of the box DC locos, I do on occasion run them and I do put up a direct DC layout every holiday. 
So I feel like I am moving in the right direction… yet most of the 7 pages of this post are over my head, not on topic or just plain argumentative… 
HOW IN THE WORLD DOES THAT MAKE THIS HOBBY "EASY TO GET INTO"? 

I liken this to saying I like chocolate. I know I like chocolate – but ask a question about it here and all of the sudden you find out there are a million types of chocolate, everyone thinks theirs is the best and begins to put the others down by telling you how it is made and why theirs is better and make you dislike one over the other. 
In some strange way the effort is always very much appreciated and I know it is all well intended - but as a newbie all I truly know is “I like chocolate” and am now confused as to why. 

One member posted - "The only thing making it hard to get into this hobby is YOU. The welcome mat is out from all of us, come on in". 
Thank you, I appreciate your input. I do generally feel welcome and am in about as far as I can go before having to take my next big (costly) step... BUT… I whole heartedly disagree that the only thing making it hard is "you" (me). 
Have you read this post? 
3000+ hits on this one topic alone is IMHO a pretty good indicator that this is not an easy hobby to get into. There are about 60 posts/replies on this thread, yet 3000+ hits on it? From a newbie stand point, I am willing to bet that a lot of those reading this are just as confused as I am, just as cautious about something that will cost them hundreds of dollars, and overall find it just as difficult (hard) to proceed as myself. 

I asked a specific question ------ " How did any of you decide on a system and work works with it?" - 
There are now 7 pages of responses and most don't have an answer to any question, never mind an answer to my specific question. The topic went from what works for you - to - mine is bigger and better and why. 
Lownote and a few others were down and dirty with great answers. They simply said I started with "X", liked this about it, didn't like that and am now sold on "X'. 
That is all most any of us newbies are asking for. A simple answer to what your doing and why it has worked for you… it is after all the “beginner” forum. 

I don’t know, maybe hard to get into is not the correct way to put it? 
Anyone can wade to their ankles in the water and be technically in it. That is (as several have pointed out) not "hard" to do. 
The hard part is knowing the next step you are about to take is where you know you will drop in over your head... This is what most of us "newbies" are trying to understand before we take the leap. So while "hard" may not best define the issue at hand - I think it suits my situation well enough 


Hmm I dont know how to make my responce any simpler than it was, Ron


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 16 Aug 2010 03:48 PM 
I asked a specific question ------ " How did any of you decide on a system and work works with it?" - 
There are now 7 pages of responses and most don't have an answer to any question, never mind an answer to my specific question. The topic went from what works for you - to - mine is bigger and better and why. 
Lownote *and a few others were down and dirty with great answers*. They simply said I started with "X", liked this about it, didn't like that and am now sold on "X'. 
That is all most any of us newbies are asking for. A simple answer to what your doing and why it has worked for you… it is after all the “beginner” forum. 

I don’t know, maybe hard to get into is not the correct way to put it? 
Anyone can wade to their ankles in the water and be technically in it. That is (as several have pointed out) not "hard" to do. 
The hard part is knowing the next step you are about to take is where you know you will drop in over your head... This is what most of us "newbies" are trying to understand before we take the leap. So while "hard" may not best define the issue at hand - I think it suits my situation well enough 


Hmm I dont know how to make my responce any simpler than it was, Ron The problem with the written word is that no tone or inflection is presented. One can not be certain of the intent of someone else's words.
As in this case - I can read this as a lecture like the many from my father with the undertone of how dumb can you be? "I can not make this any simpler!"
or I can read this with the tone of a concerned teacher searching for a way to help turn the light on for a student who is not getting it.....
The first would make a newbie feel like they could not be any slower and were wasting precious time asking dumb questions.
The second, like a person may actually care and be pondering a way to explain the matter at hand that makes sense.
In this instance I will choose the latter and again thank you for taking the time to respond.

Truth be told I said that there were some "down and dirty with great answers"...


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 Aug 2010 02:49 PM 
Kevin's post makes me want to bring up another point: 

Going by how people made their choice years ago might not be a good criteria now. 

When I started, sound was very expensive and limited, and few people had it. Now, it is much more popular, and to me, required. 

So the last paragraph of what Kevin posted is very relevant to the "progress" of large scale railroading. 

Regards, Greg 


Point in case I used to say-sound why? But you know once you taste the drug you are hooked









When I started out I tried to logically analyze what I wanted and needed. I found ZIMO - long before I went into this business. I have never regretted this choice. For my layout battery would never be a choice, so why Airwire over track power, if I can get it all with the correct system. And the argument you don't need a command station, is not a good one, because the command station give more stable track power in the case of ZIMO and I can fire up my switches at the same time and light the houses... and so on.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

An installation with a command station comprises a system, where the command station can keep and share information with cabs, for instance consist numbers... you create a consist on one cab, and it then becomes "known" and available to all cabs. 

In a product where there is only a one to one relationship between the loco and the cab, this cannot happen, the cabs do not have a way to share information between each other. 

This distinction is why things like "emergency stop" don't work well on a product like the Revo, where the cab has no idea what other locos are running, so it has to send a stop command to EVERY possible loco address. 

A "system" has a lot going for it, that's why systems exist in real life. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Idraw4u on 16 Aug 2010 05:29 PM 
Posted By BodsRailRoad on 16 Aug 2010 03:48 PM 
I asked a specific question ------ " How did any of you decide on a system and work works with it?" - 
There are now 7 pages of responses and most don't have an answer to any question, never mind an answer to my specific question. The topic went from what works for you - to - mine is bigger and better and why. 
Lownote *and a few others were down and dirty with great answers*. They simply said I started with "X", liked this about it, didn't like that and am now sold on "X'. 
That is all most any of us newbies are asking for. A simple answer to what your doing and why it has worked for you… it is after all the “beginner” forum. 

I don’t know, maybe hard to get into is not the correct way to put it? 
Anyone can wade to their ankles in the water and be technically in it. That is (as several have pointed out) not "hard" to do. 
The hard part is knowing the next step you are about to take is where you know you will drop in over your head... This is what most of us "newbies" are trying to understand before we take the leap. So while "hard" may not best define the issue at hand - I think it suits my situation well enough 


Hmm I don't know how to make my response any simpler than it was, Ron The problem with the written word is that no tone or inflection is presented. One can not be certain of the intent of someone else's words.
As in this case - I can read this as a lecture like the many from my father with the undertone of how dumb can you be? "I can not make this any simpler!"
or I can read this with the tone of a concerned teacher searching for a way to help turn the light on for a student who is not getting it.....
The first would make a newbie feel like they could not be any slower and were wasting precious time asking dumb questions.
The second, like a person may actually care and be pondering a way to explain the matter at hand that makes sense.
In this instance I will choose the latter and again thank you for taking the time to respond.

Truth be told I said that there were some "down and dirty with great answers"... 




That is how it was meant I was not trying to be condescending in any way. I tried to make it as easy as possible for someone new to understand, I tend to get a little over detailed sometimes, and thanks for lumping me into the helpful section.

That being said if you do have the newer yellow box Aristo engines you wont find a simpler way to get the sound and control you seek than the QSI/NCE set-up.
It was such a big difference over all the others I looked at that I actually sold all my older black and gray boxed engines for the newer plug and play yellow boxed one. In fact I actualy came out ahead on the deal because I sold my old boxed engines for more than I paid for the new yellow boxed ones









Good luck to you, and trust me your better off getting the info Before you leap, than leaping and not being happy where you land.

Ron


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