# What do they fight about in other scales?



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

We continually get into the battery power vs track power debate here. And then there is elevated vs on the ground, free floating track vs nailed down, etc.

Do some of you flexible scale guys know what they debate in the other scales? It seems to me from reading Model Railroader, that everybody pretty much does scenery the same way, maybe DCC vs DC block control? 


Personally, I think if we didn't have these debates, this site would be pretty boring. Ask a question ... get an answer ... end of thread. Might as well just use Google or a Wiki or a reference book. It is the debating, and even the personalities that we encounter during these debates that makes MLS interesting. (In my opinion of course, which is usually right).


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Thats why we pay the $ Del

Drama and the










Its all fun










If you get stressed out over this stuff


I would have to say people would be Morons

















Now back to Chubbie chic night at the Bar............









And yes we have Wi Fi at the stools............


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Most other scales (smaller) are indoors. The environment there is relatively uniform whether you live in Fairbanks, Alaska or Miami, Florida. Most of us have our trains outside in the environment. Where you live has a lot do do with when and how your can run. What works in one part of the country may not work somewhere else. Having had outdoors railroads in Denver and northern Virginia I have learned to recognize these local differences. One answer doesn't fit all regions. That is why we all have different ideas and suggestions. OUR LOCAL ENVIRONMENT IS DIFFERENT.

Chuck N


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Del, dear, plain and simple,, Its a power struggle. 
Baby scalers think they are better than large scalers, Toy train collectors run trains toooo fast and like them shinny. 

Man if this is all we fight about. We get along pretty good. 
Just don't get personal attachs. Thats when Dwalt has to step in and lock the thread. 

OH yea, one last point, how many times do you hear of DCC track power folks coming together and all running trains together. 
Battery/ Livesteam can all run together even with all kinds of different makes and models.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, fight over DCC Vs. DC, the makers never listen and every product has some OBVIOUS error.... 

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

We DCC guys usually have the ability to run DC.
We get together all the time, and most people can change from DCC to DC quickly, I can do it in about 30 seconds.
All my DCC locos run on DC also, automatically, no switches to throw, no programming, and I can control my bell and whistle with a reversing switch on the transformer.
This also happens in another scale I model, Z scale, and it's somewhat common in N scale.
HO is pretty much all DCC except for some holdouts on DC.
By the way, your comment on "no personal attacks" rings pretty hollow since your pointed remark on the Consolidation thread about "someone who always has to be right". Just because you don't explicitly mention someone's name does not make it a personal attack. I know that's part of your moniker for me.
Greg
Posted By NTCGRR on 01 Nov 2010 06:43 PM 
Del, dear, plain and simple,, Its a power struggle. 
Baby scalers think they are better than large scalers, Toy train collectors run trains toooo fast and like them shinny. 

Man if this is all we fight about. We get along pretty good. 
Just don't get personal attachs. Thats when Dwalt has to step in and lock the thread. 

OH yea, one last point, how many times do you hear of DCC track power folks coming together and all running trains together. 
Battery/ Livesteam can all run together even with all kinds of different makes and models.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 01 Nov 2010 06:43 PM 
Del, dear, plain and simple,, Its a power struggle. 
Baby scalers think they are better than large scalers, Toy train collectors run trains toooo fast and like them shinny. 

Man if this is all we fight about. We get along pretty good. 
Just don't get personal attachs. Thats when Dwalt has to step in and lock the thread. 

OH yea, one last point, how many times do you hear of DCC track power folks coming together and all running trains together. 
Battery/ Livesteam can all run together even with all kinds of different makes and models.



Now see you had a nice post goin and then

QUOTE
OH yea, one last point, how many times do you hear of DCC track power folks coming together and all running trains together. 
Battery/ Livesteam can all run together even with all kinds of different makes and models.

You know,

Us track guys get ALL the Chics 

He He He .............

We play nice together ................









You'll see at the Fairplex this weekend.

What do they run

TRACK POWER 

Bubbie

When in dought

Pull the Bridgewerks out.........


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Things weren't always so rosy in the other scales. 

In clubs there were always feuds between the O scale standard gauge guys and the narrow gaugers, and the HO and HOn3 fraternity. Add trolley modelers to the mix and it was a constant contest for right of way sometimes rivaling the armed conflicts between the AT&SF and the D&RG in the 1800's. 

Couplers were a constant struggle in HO in the fifties. You had Varney plastic dummy couplers as well as several metal types. Roundhouse (MDC) had a metal automatic that wasn't much more effective than a dummy coupller but looked good. There were two types of hook & loop couplers that were popular; the Baker (used by John Allen) and the more popular Mantua. Both operated pretty well except for the looks. The early Kadees were fairly good but nothing like the later models operationally. Added to the mix was the much announced NMRA coupler, or grappling hooks, as they were called by most modelers. They worked but were ugly as sin. 

In HO locomotives were universally made of pot metal the quality of which wasn't consistent between the various manufacturers. While it lasted for a fairly good length of time some boilers or tender shells would begin to fracture after 20 years or so. Varney had excellent boiler castings however. Imported brass started coming out around 1959 in some quantity. Rolling stock too was metal and/or wood with one notable, Laconia, having car sides made of cardboard with exceptionally fine printing. 

You should have heard the squawking when some car kits started coming with plastic parts! One company, John English I think, even offered all plastic cars with cast on details! Plastic was accepted somewhat on diesel locomotives but it was pure blasphemy when steam locomotives first came out with plastic boilers and tender shells. 

In all fairness to the critics though the early plastic offerings weren't all that good compared to the old metal/wood kits for detail. When the unpowered Globe plastic F units came out however the level of detail was very good for the time. Immediately the diesel fans wanted to find a way to power it. Athearn filled that need. 

There was a lot of combat between diesel fans and the more traditional steam fans in modeling as well. Many were so upset at the demise of the steam locomotive on the railroads that they wouldn't have a diesel on their railroads. A lot of friction here too. 

When nickel-silver track was introduced it was condemned by many who thought it too expensive compared with good old reliable and cheap brass. The cheapies didn't want their railroads to look toyish compared with the more enlightened nickel-silver users and of course didn't want to buy new track. 

Scenery techniques were all over the place ranging from paper mache' to plaster to ? Trees were often nothing more than twigs with dyed cotton puffs attached or air fern or dried vegetation. 
Not a whole lot of argument in this case but lots of options. 

As today of course the rivet counters and best modelers were often demonized as taking the fun out of the hobby. I remember a couple of letters to the editor in Model Railroader even complaining about too much John Allen. Imagine! A 4x8 plywood panel with a short train was good enough for anybody. hehe! 

So....things haven't changed much really. When you see the controversy just put your head down and forge ahead on your own chosen trail and ignore the conflict or join in and have fun!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If you DCC guys run DC where does the extra C go?


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 01 Nov 2010 06:43 PM 
Del, dear, plain and simple,, Its a power struggle. 
Baby scalers think they are better than large scalers, Toy train collectors run trains toooo fast and like them shinny. 




Man if this is all we fight about. We get along pretty good. 







Just don't get personal attach's. Thats when Dwalt has to step in and lock the thread. 

OH yea, one last point, how many times do you hear of DCC track power folks coming together and all running trains together. 
Battery/ Livesteam can all run together even with all kinds of different makes and models.

......................................................................................

It all in fun and to get someone goat sometimes, but still all in fun, and it really all about running trains.. No matter how you run them.. I have my way of running my trains but still like to know whats out there do or what others are doing.. It a big big hobby and lots of $ we play with. But then now after I went to a local Hobby shop to look at some N and Ho Gage stuff. I'm not to sure about that now.. Wow....... Did the prices go up on that stuff..









Boy Richard Smith.... Your going back in to my times. Laf. Loved them Baker couplers...


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Boy Richard Smith.... Your going back in to my times. Laf. Loved them Baker couplers... 

Now ya done it Noel. You went and picked a fight with the Mantua coupler guys! hehehe!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Simple... they joined the NMRA and became Conformists. 

Air power with onboard balloons! 

John


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Noel, 
You coming this weekend to Pomona? 
I can help you burn your fingers........


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Conformists? More like _Conformunists!!_














(Ooh, can I _say_ that?? Just kidding!!!)Actually, I'm pretty easy going about everything LS with a couple of exceptions. Just keep that d*mn "super socket" and SUSI interface out of my locomotives and we'll get along just fine! (It's not even that the super socket exists but that it's being forced on us! Not gonna happen. No sir!)


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hahaha Heres the Short list: 


N vs HO

DC vs DCC 

Flextrack vs EZ Track 

4x8 layouts vs Round the room layouts 

John Allen vs Frank Ellison 

George Sellios vs Tony Koester 

Malcomn Furlow vs Everyone 

Code 100 track vs Code 83 track 

Atlas vs Bluebox vs Kato vs Proto2000 

Steam vs Diesel 

Clean cars vs weathered cars vs graffitied cars 

Foam vs Plaster 

Kit vs RTR 

Operations vs Round and round 

Kadees vs everything else 

HK Walther vs every other ditributor 

Mom and pop stores vs Internet stores 

Brass vs Plastic

Brass locos hidden away in boxes vs actually using the dam things on your layout

Some sound familiar dont they LOL


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Richard Smith on 01 Nov 2010 08:38 PM 
Boy Richard Smith.... Your going back in to my times. Laf. Loved them Baker couplers... 



Now ya done it Noel. You went and picked a fight with the Mantua coupler guys! hehehe! 

Richard... 
Darn, Sorry, Sniff ....Insert # 10 foot in to mouth again.. lol 
Hook and loop v. Drop pin. Varney Plastic v. Tago Metal! hahahaha.
Oops 
sorry.

........................................................................................................

Mark. Can't make it this time. Taking care of mama. So kind of stuck around here. But Ya.....Still tk's to you " I'm still thinking tho.." I earned my SA49 at the Sacramento Steam up.. I had a great time there and got lots of photo' and video's,plus meeting a bunch of great guys. 
Also,,Thanks for escorting us around and the initiation of how to get big water bubble under skin.. hahahaha.
.........................................................................................................

V.Smith....... You are FUNNIE...







Good list......And_ how true it is. _


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

*I could not hold back on ans. some of these, V.smith.. ,..... How true some are and funny.







*


Posted By vsmith on 01 Nov 2010 09:56 PM 

Hahaha Heres the Short list: 


N vs HO..............................N gage..Never could get the darn cars on the track. They were like hot wheels. Somewhere there were wheel under there.

DC vs DCC ...........................Big hands never pushed the right buttons. DC. just one big handle. 

Flextrack vs EZ Track................ Ho 3 ft.Flex, making a 14 inch "R" would snap around and hit you in the head. 

4x8 layouts vs Round the room layouts..Picking up a 4' X 8' layout to move or store it. I couldn't see where I was going and wipe out my 25 gal. Aquarium. Around the room, Just open up the door and you are there. 

John Allen vs Frank Ellison........... John Alleeeen..God bless him..Stumbled over bridges trying to crossing over with canyon that went to the floor. Long story there. 

George Sellios vs Tony Koester......... Tony K. Rejected my article.


Malcomn Furlow vs Everyone ............Ya.. plus Me


Code 100 track vs Code 83 track........ My Ho Lionel Eng. could not work on code 83 due to cast flanges hitting the tie spikes. Beside Code 83 bent to easy. Not good for big hands. 

Atlas vs Bluebox vs Kato vs Proto2000 ... Bluebox was the best, but my hobby shop didn't have it. And Kato was to expensive. So stuck with Atlas code 100 w/old fiber ties. 

Steam vs Diesel........................Steam Eng.de-railed when track jointer didn't match.. Diesel would hop over them. 

Clean cars vs weathered cars vs graffitied cars.. Didn't have clean cars very long due to dust. So kind of weathered with a few swats of Fly mark. So guess that would be some sort of graffitied?

Foam vs Plaster........................Dont' want to talk much about it..Fell thru the plaster mt. by leaning over to fix a train. Foam, burnt my self cutting with hot knife. Boy does that stuff stick to the skin when hot. 

Kit vs RTR.........................Kits seem to not have all of the parts in them.. I always had to go back to the sales person and steal out of another box to get my kit done. RTR hard to find other than maybe AHM stuff with Horn couples that was welded on and big wheel flanges. 

Operations vs Round and round............ If you didn't run trains often, would have to push the train on any sidings or spur. Always track problems... 
Something have short on block with plus and minus rev. Burn up wires or have to go to Radio Shuk to get another fuse. 
Around and around.. Fix or clean track once and they just keep running.. Don't have to replace fuses. 

Kadees vs everything else................Kedees. Stupid straight pin hung up on everthing. Might as well us Varney dummys in the first place.. Had to lift up the car to un-couple anyway.
Others, If not working or match up, then use bread ties. "Wonder bread wheat ties worked best." 

HK Walther vs every other ditributor... Walthers had it all.. Just couldn't get it if not a dealer. 

Mom and pop stores vs Internet stores.....Internet stores said they had it, but never ship it. Always on back order... Mom & Pop stores, Just never had what you wanted in the first place or there kid got it first. 

Brass vs Plastic................Brass stuff seems to come un-solderd and not able to glue them with Ambord glue. That about all we had to work with in the 50ths. Plastic ... Good old Testers glue. 

Brass locos hidden away in boxes vs actually using the dam things on your layout...

Brass Eng. never had any power to pull any kind of train. Way under size motors. And sometime not even able to get them self around the tracks. If they could make a pole and a haft motor, *they would*. You were lucky to ever get a 3 pole motor in your brass eng. 
Or they were so high geared like a rockets.

Some Brass Eng. or rolling stock was just an investment to have one of a kind that no one else could have. They go outdated with better stuff for sale later on that would replace them anyway.

Then you can't even get you money out of it, plus it won't run, and it been setting to long in the box..
Beside that..... if not tarnish or the paint starting to comes off. 

Some sound familiar don't they LOL.......... 

YOU BET.....VSmith.....

Yup .. You hit it right on the head.. Boy do we remember it well.. hahahahahahahahaha 
But.. what we did was still fun and they were trains. 
Still laf. on this, 
Tk's for posting this.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

In O gauge they fight about virtually everything. One will say something is black and another will post that it's white, leading to page after page about who is right and who is wrong. 

Trust me, moderating any Large Scale forum, where folks are generally civil and congenial, has to be child's play compared to moderating an O gauge forum (which I help to do, pretty much 24/7). The only other scale/gauge I know of where folks display consistently good manners and respect for their fellow participants is Z.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

BOY aren't trains a fun hobby!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01 Nov 2010 07:41 PM 
We DCC guys usually have the ability to run DC.
We get together all the time, and most people can change from DCC to DC quickly, I can do it in about 30 seconds.
All my DCC locos run on DC also, automatically, no switches to throw, no programming, and I can control my bell and whistle with a reversing switch on the transformer.
This also happens in another scale I model, Z scale, and it's somewhat common in N scale.
HO is pretty much all DCC except for some holdouts on DC.
By the way, your comment on "no personal attacks" rings pretty hollow since your pointed remark on the Consolidation thread about "someone who always has to be right". Just because you don't explicitly mention someone's name does not make it a personal attack. I know that's part of your moniker for me.
Greg
Posted By NTCGRR on 01 Nov 2010 06:43 PM 
Del, dear, plain and simple,, Its a power struggle. 
Baby scalers think they are better than large scalers, Toy train collectors run trains toooo fast and like them shinny. 

Man if this is all we fight about. We get along pretty good. 
Just don't get personal attachs. Thats when Dwalt has to step in and lock the thread. 

OH yea, one last point, how many times do you hear of DCC track power folks coming together and all running trains together. 
Battery/ Livesteam can all run together even with all kinds of different makes and models.



OH Greg, it was pointed at me.. see you take it wrong.


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Well in HO: 

Ballast vs no Ballast vs Ez-track 
black ties vs brown 
homemade trees vs store bought 
kit buildings vs built-ups 
EMD vs GE 
NCE vs everyone else left in their dcc dust 
Also, lately manufactures are constantly merging or sharing molds. I think every engine I own has a "kato" drive! 

The big thing that's bizarre about g scale is the multitude of scales...(sometimes of the same prototype) I always find myself explaining this (even to g-scalers) haha.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

OH Greg, it was pointed at me.. see you take it wrong

Hey I know some guy's like that!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep I remember those HO days and the list shown above brings back memories. Later RJD


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, if we didn't disagree, and argue, and point out different things in our lovely little hobby here, then there would be NO need for this forum, or advertisers or idears and such being exchanged would we????? I learn a thing or two about a thing or two every day!!! When you quit arguing yer points and or idears, then you probably are 6ft under and (this point I'm unsure about) not enjoying anything, anymore in the whatever after you cease to exist as we know it here on earth. Hah LOL Regal 

Sometimes we all get tooooooooooooooooo sterious about non serious thingys!! LOL


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I think your typo should be; Too steerious ... as in bull headed! ha ha


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

For some mysterious reason, the Maine 2-foot modelers can be an unusually nasty bunch.. 
not all of them obviously..but MUCH more than in other scales/niches it seems.. 
it was so bad that a large chunk of one forum left the group and started up their own new group! 
because of one particularly immature and vindictive moderator and his minions.. 
(and since he was the moderator, nothing could be done..he was the ruler of his little kingdom..it was pretty sad..)

(the resulting new forum is excellent though! run by a fine gentleman: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Maine-Two-Foot-Modelers-Forum 
people still have spirited debates there! but its friendly..) 

I cant explain why the 2-foot modelers have such an unusually nasty contingent among them..just one of those weird things.. 

Scot


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Inbreeding?


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 02 Nov 2010 12:04 PM 
I think your typo should be; Too steerious ... as in bull headed! ha ha 

Not a typo my friend I meant it that way and I was being kind of facetious, I never take meself too sterious ever!! And I actually talk that way oncest in awhile too!! Yep oncest pronounced wonst!! Hah LOL Regal


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hehehe.... Yeah, the more specialized stuff gets stranger. I went to a "large national convention for a fallen flag" a few years back....would have thought it was the world series, UN, or something that actually mattered in the world from all the fanfare, debates, discussions, people that would not talk to each other, etc...while a SMALL lot of us normal folks @11:00 or so walked into the hotel's bar (where a local wife-swapping group was "conducting business", but that is another story). 

The tops was some guy lugging around two jars of paint....original paint from "back in the day" to prove everyone wrong, my comments of paint discoloration in 40+ years and "scale" fell on deaf ears....he had the paint, so that was "fact" over years of working with the paint industry professionally. 

NMRA...no, check out the finescale prototype modellers, these are the really odd guys. I know, I tried it for a while. But I figured out real quickly the majority of the "really good ones" or the "know it alls" had no families/kids, entry level IT jobs, had no interpersonal skills, still lived in mom's basement or a combination of the above.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 02 Nov 2010 12:04 PM 
I think your typo should be; Too steerious ... as in bull headed! ha ha 
A steer is no bull..... he's missing a few parts. Then again some folks occasionally seem to be missing a few marbles.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 02 Nov 2010 03:15 PM 
Posted By Totalwrecker on 02 Nov 2010 12:04 PM 
I think your typo should be; Too steerious ... as in bull headed! ha ha 
A steer is no bull..... he's missing a few parts. Then again some folks occasionally seem to be missing a few marbles. 

What.............


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Just go to any narrow gauge meet and casually ask a few modellers what color green should you use for a "green jacketed" boiler on a D&RGW mike. Then quickly duck for cover before things get real ugly! You can get almost the same reaction by asking them what color a graphite smoke box should be painted.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

True. It is in any hobby. My firearms buddies have quit going to shows due to some of the foamers there. 

I can remember being in Northfield MA, back in 1991 and watching two grown men almost come to physical blows about what was "correct" for Citroën CX (car) interiors. 

Neither one wanted to hear what was being said on the sidelines, that actually they were both right (UK spec cars had different interior than French market ones).


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 02 Nov 2010 05:06 PM 
True. It is in any hobby. My firearms buddies have quit going to shows due to some of the foamers there. 

I can remember being in Northfield MA, back in 1991 and watching two grown men almost come to physical blows about what was "correct" for Citroën CX (car) interiors. 

Neither one wanted to hear what was being said on the sidelines, that actually they were both right (UK spec cars had different interior than French market ones). 

hahaha! I saw almost the SAME thing at a model airplane show, two guys had nearly come to blows, both had modeled the same F-4 Phanthom using the same photos from the same book and were argueing over who's model was more "accurate". 

I will NEVER allow myself to get that anal over this hobby, I suspect its why i will often go out of my way, subconsciously at least, to make even mymost serious models lean a little on the whimsey side.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

In half-zero, of the 60% and holding who use dcc, it's still an argument on which is better. 
Couplers (still).... 
Code of track. 
Type of turnout. 
But I LOVE needling them.....I run old Varney and Mantua steam (and some belt-drive Varney F-3's), Mantua couplers, code 100 track, paper-sided cars......and track power ONLY. 

You should see some of them when their eyes roll back and lock in place. 
I think the half-zero crowd got bamboozled into thinking "HO" is something like "High Output", when it's really Maerklin's nomenclature for half of zero gauge. 

The "S" guys were pretty smart, tho. 
They were originally tagged with H-1, or half one, but they didn't want anything to do with that. 

My personal belief is the meddling of the nmra caused the letter designator to fit into their scheme...latest, of course, being the LS designators, like "F".


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

""But I LOVE needling them"" 

Man you are old!! My great gandpa used to say that.... 

PS
And Dave, are you going to be at the MLS Sat thing???? And why not???


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 02 Nov 2010 03:15 PM 
Posted By Totalwrecker on 02 Nov 2010 12:04 PM 
I think your typo should be; Too steerious ... as in bull headed! ha ha 
A steer is no bull..... he's missing a few parts. Then again some folks occasionally seem to be missing a few marbles. 

Errr....the missing parts _are_ round, but I dont think they are marbles


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I think they are nutz like some of the folks we see here, probably including meself!! Hah LOL Regal


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

On one of the model ship boards I go to they have a big argument over what color the Arizona was when she was sunk at Pearl Harbor. 
LAO


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 03 Nov 2010 03:30 PM 
Posted By Spule 4 on 02 Nov 2010 05:06 PM 
True. It is in any hobby. My firearms buddies have quit going to shows due to some of the foamers there. 

I can remember being in Northfield MA, back in 1991 and watching two grown men almost come to physical blows about what was "correct" for Citroën CX (car) interiors. 

Neither one wanted to hear what was being said on the sidelines, that actually they were both right (UK spec cars had different interior than French market ones). 

hahaha! I saw almost the SAME thing at a model airplane show, two guys had nearly come to blows, both had modeled the same F-4 Phanthom using the same photos from the same book and were argueing over who's model was more "accurate". 

I will NEVER allow myself to get that anal over this hobby, I suspect its why i will often go out of my way, subconsciously at least, to make even mymost serious models lean a little on the whimsey side.


This always pops to mind when this starts!

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/127096/...Get_A_Life


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Curmudgeon 

I really don't think the NMRA guys were smart enough to use "F" for 1:20.32. After all, it is far too logical... the F is for Fifteen mm/ ft. 

IF H0 [3.5mm/ft is] HALF 0 [7.0mm/ft], how did the Brits come up with 00 for 4.0mm/ft, which led to 000 for 2.0mm/ft, later to be called N for the 9mm track gauge. 
And only the man upstairs knows why 00 with its 16.5mm [H0] track gauge spawned EM [4.0mm/ft with a more correct gauge of 18.83mm], and then Proto4 [the Brit equivalent of Proto87]. 
N scale comes in at least two flavors; 1/160 and 1:153, nominally1.9mm/ft and 2.0mm/ft respectively. 
0 can be 7mm/ft [1:43.5], 0.25in/ft [1/48], 0.2526in (17/64th) [1:45.1 and almost exact scale for 1.25in gauge track representing 56.5in SG] 

And Large Scale thinks it has cornered the market on " pick a scale/pick a track gauge". IN GENERAL, most of us have 45mm [approximately] gauge track regardless of the height of the rail or the spacing of the ties. 

I can attest to Alan Miller's observations about the 0 scale crowd, especially the 2 vs 3 rail NOISE. I have 3 rail modules on which I run 0 scale cars with scale flanges for 2 rail and Kadee body mounts. The 3 rail guys think it is a crime. 

I can also tell you [from experience] the the 2 ft crowd is REALLY ROUGH and in two camps with a cratered " no mans land" in between. One side would weather their models with rust scraped off of cars at the museums in Maine [if they though about it]. LOL!! 

Now back to our regularly scheduled bitching!! 

Regards


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 04 Nov 2010 05:08 PM 
Curmudgeon 

IF H0 [3.5mm/ft is] HALF 0 [7.0mm/ft], how did the Brits come up with 00 for 4.0mm/ft, which led to 000 for 2.0mm/ft, later to be called N for the 9mm track gauge. 
And only the man upstairs knows why 00 with its 16.5mm [H0] track gauge spawned EM [4.0mm/ft with a more correct gauge of 18.83mm], and then Proto4 [the Brit equivalent of Proto87]. 

I recall reading somewhere that because the British loading gauge is quite a bit smaller than USA, the trains are typically smaller and at the time of popularizing the scale 00 (double 0), it was a matter of being able to fit the electric motors in the 00 bodies so they went for 4mm/ft instead of the correct 3.5mm/ft. 
4mm/ft = 1:76 now needed a 'correct' gauge for scale modellers therefore EM. 

Andrew


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Andrew 

You are correct on both the point about the motors not fitting inside the small British outline steamers and the fact that the guys wanting to move to more scale modeling wanted a more correct track gauge. It is also reported that another reason for using 4.00mm scale was that it made British rolling stock more "visually compatible" with Continental European stock, particularly French and German, that was in H0 scale. This is an "oft repeated" assertion that may have no basis in fact, but it is completely consistent with the argument that 1:29 was made to be "visually compatible" with modern American outline LGB, rather than the fact that it is almost exactly three times larger than H0 [3 x 29 = 87] and thereby simplified the creation of full sized drawings. 

Regards


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