# Local Hobby Shop...



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Just an interesting experience today...

I don't usually go to any of the local hobby shops for major purchases, just supplies and stuff.

I would kind of prefer to, I don't like waiting for large heavy boxes, and my mail"person" doesn't seem to enjoy them either...

So, today, I took a drive, it's about 20 miles one way to a rather large, well-known, shop, that I won't mention the name of.

Basically, I had a little cash to spend and wanted to see what they had in stock, so, I perused the AMS cars, the Bachmann stuff, all within a few bucks of what it costs online, nothing outrageous, although there is that 10+% sales tax in our city...

Then, I saw it: The QSI Bachmann K-27 PnP converter. All you need is a speaker, the Quantum Engineer, and wala! Sound! Just like a steam locomotive! 

And... A good price on it.

Problem was, it was locked in a glass case. I asked one of the sales people, but he said he knew nothing about "that" stuff" and referred me to the "QSI" expert, who, they told me, was at lunch. I waited so long for someone to unlock it, the wife got a little tiffed and went to the car. the QSI "expert" showed up and I inquired as to whether or not they had the Quantam Engineer, they told me that they didn't have one "in stock", so the guy sent me to another counter to check to see if they were in stock and to order one if I wanted it. (I can do that myself, I really wanted someone to do it for me...) 
Darn. Didn't want to buy one without the other one. So, wandered off, was heading out to the car, and there, halfway across the shop, was the Quantum Engineer! The one the other guy had told me they didn't have... OK... So, OK, picked up the QE (which strangely enough, they had two versions, the Walters version and the Black Mountain version, both identical, but $15 difference in price?

Went back, and couldn't find the "QSI Expert" but managed to get someone else to open the case so I could get the converter... Then, used my Blackberry to go out on the 'net to look up what size speaker I needed (3 inch, thanks Blackberry, the SoundTraxx one fit the K tender pefectly!) Of course, by the time I got to the car, the wife was stewing...

Lesson learned? Don't take the wife to the LHS, and make sure I'm not in a hurry.

Advice to the LHS? 

If someone wants something in a case, they're probably buying something expensive, I spent $240 on everything I needed... Don't take 15 minutes to "find" someone who has the key...

It doesn't take three people to wait on one customer. Other customers are waiting also.

Learn your product. OK, it's a big shop, a very big shop, but try to show some interest. Saying you don't know anything about it and sending me to someone who's "at lunch" really doesn't help me... 
I watched a lady, who obviously had some idea of what she wanted, buy a $370 Lionel train set, and nobody ever bothered to ask her if they could help her.

And, I realize a LHS is a business, but when someone is waiting on a customer (me), it really isn't appropriate to interrupt to discuss moving some stock out of the store room and letting the customer stand there...

And, honestly, I was a little insulted when the guy who opened the case the second time asked me if I was sure that what I asked for was what I needed, and maybe I should make sure. Um, yeah, the package marked G Scale Bachmann K-27 really ought to work with my G Scale Bachmann K-27...

Am I expecting too much? I don't think so, I went to our very large, National chain computer store just before my trip to the LHS, and bought a laptop for my daughter, and no less than 4 or 5 people asked me if they could help me, and one of the store managers rang me up herself rather than watch me stand in line with a rather large purchase in my arms.

I recall another LHS a couple of years back when I walked in prepared to buy a Connie, at a $450 sticker price. The only guy in the shop was the cashier, and he couldn't leave the register, and he actually told me the guys in the back were "too busy" to come up and help me. I took my money home, and bought one for $240 on eBay, including shipping.

What's the difference between a train bought off the internet or one bought in an LHS? Nothing. Maybe a slight difference in price, the only thing either can offer is "customer service." Will I go back? Ummm, probably, although it is quite a drive, but I dunno, I may just order off the web, so much easier...

IMH(A)O...

Robert


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Some random thoughts from someone who's been on the other side of the counter in the hobby biz; 
1. It's hard to get and keep good employees on what most small shops can afford to pay. Not an excuse, just a sad fact of life. Putting those folks on commission might be a partial answer, but then you'd still lose the best to places that can pay more. 
2. The economy being what it's been, for the last few - I'd guess they probably cut back on staff about as much as folks have cut back on buying spendy toys. Wearing 3 or 4 hats all at the same time is really fun! 
3. The key may well have been in the pocket of the guy at lunch. Expensive stuff is IN the case because it tends to 'grow legs', and many if not most stores are actually more worried about the employees making off with stuff than the general public! 
4. Hobby shops and speed shops both are generally not places to go if you're in a hurry, or don't have much patience. It's been that way for 40 years at least. Like a local coffee shop, BS-ing with the regular customers to keep them coming back seems to have priority over attracting new ones. 
5. Many folks at general hobby shops are pretty much one trick ponies. They know just about everything about one part of the field that interests them, R/C cars, planes, slot cars, whatever..... Anything else, and they are often more lost than the customer. --- That said, I'd rather they admit they're totally clueless than try to buffalo me. If you can wait for the guy who knows trains, you'll be better off, you wouldn't want a podiatrist selling you contact lenses either. 
6. The 'train guy' sometimes has a life too. They generally can't simply keep him in a drawer under the counter 24/7 just in case somebody walks in with a question. Yes, it would be nice if he was instantly reachable, but to expect someone to be 'on call' also usually requires paying him to be... see #1 and#2. 

And 7...... Some folks behind the counter really ARE idiots and slackers... but they're often relations to the owner and he probably wishes they weren't there either! 

Sadly, the LHS is a dying breed. Much easier and cheaper to start a mail order biz, with a computer you can do that from your livingroom... or mom's basement! Fewer employees. No upkeep. No extra property taxes or utilities. Easier to dodge customers with complaints..... Smaller inventory, just drop ship or backorder what you don't stock.... Plays well with many folks Wal-Mart (cheap is everything) mentalities, too! The only drawback is you might get calls at 3am. 

And lastly, your wife's hobby shop experience was probably the same for her as a tag along to the shoe store is for you. The shoe is just on the other foot, so to speak. Next time maybe let her go do her thing while you do yours and schedule to meet up in an hour? Easier (and probably cheaper in the long run) than making her mad....


In a perfect world everything would be easy. No morons behind the counter. No lines. No stupid hassles. No lousy service. --- No folks wasting the shop guys' time looking and asking a zillion questions before walking out to buy online to "save" $2, either. We ALL wish for it on occasion.... lol!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The problem is, for the LHS, it becomes something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I had a similar experience yesterday. I went into the LHS to buy one of Accucraft's new 3-bay hoppers that had just come available. The LHS didn't _order_ the EBT version of this hopper (despite it being the prototype), just the Durango & Silverton and Cumbres & Toltec verions. (The D&S and C&TS bought hoppers from the EBT.) Their explanation--the eastern roadnames don't sell, so they didn't order any. This, despite there being a Bachmann 2-bay EBT hopper on the same shelf, which I do know sell there, as it comes and goes periodically (and I've bought two there myself.) They were very happy to take my order for one, which won't be here unitl sometime in January. If it weren't for the gift card I intend to use for said purchase, I'd have said "no thanks" and ordered it from another Accucraft dealer who has it sitting on the shelf ready to send to me. I have every intention of purchasing more of these cars. Guess where I won't be spending my money. The net result, unfortunately, is that the LHS continues to get the impression that no one buys the eastern stuff, not because no one wants it, but because they just don't stock it and no one wants to wait unnecessarily when they can order it from another store that does carry it. I just don't get it. (And I won't, until at least mid-January.... ) 

Later, 

K


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's the thing, you don't miss the water till the well runs dry.... 


In Indiana, Pa, where I used to live. There are 2 hobby shops. One has Lionel 0 gauge and slot cars. The other (which bills itself as the largest and best stocked in W. Pa) has mostly collector industrial diecast, plastic kits, military stuff and vinyl monsters. Neither has much more LS than a couple B'mann sets and some Aristo prebuilt houses. They also don't carry much in the way of builder supplies beyond a little Plastruct display paint and glue, either. It used to annoy me a LOT. 

The 3 closest train places to where we live now are each are about 40-60 minutes away, not cheap (one is full MSRP + a premium!), and cater mostly to collectors and the ready to run crowd. I often find myself very much wishing for the place with the plastic monsters and their pitiful selection of Plastruct and paint......Try finding much usable train stuff at Michael's or JoAnn Fabrics.


I can guarantee that just about anyone can make themselves a small fortune in the hobby biz --- if they have a LARGE one to start with.....


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

East Broad Top 

A quick question, how many cars would the EBT have had in a train behind one of their mikes? I keep trying to talk myself out of ordering one of the mikes from Accucraft and if I need to may hoppers from them it might kill the whole project.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

At The Rail Yard in Roanoke, VA (where I help out during the holidays), we greet people as they come in the door and ask whether they need any help. Most do not, but some have a specific item in mind and are grateful for the offer. Sometimes it is an item we do not carry, such as fuel powered model cars or airplanes. If we know a local store that carries this item, we recommend them and even give directions when required. We do not have much large scale. About half of it is some of my stuff that is on consignment. Still I do what I can to help folks, and I take time to explain the different scales that all run on 45mm track. If I don't know about something that well, I ask one of the regular employees. I will either get an answer, or he may help that customer personally. 

The store also does service work on all scales of trains. This level of customer service is probably the reason why people will come from West Virginia, North Carolina, and even Lynchburg and Richmond, Virginia so they can shop at our store. It has a very good inventory, and the owner will order items from the various catalogs to save customers the shipping costs. And if somebody buys a fairly heavy amount of stuff, we offer to cary it out to their vehicle. I feel good to be part of a LHS that does it right. 

Yours, 
David Meashey


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

For every good one there is a bad one. I shop at the ones that have knowledgeable folks and can help you. Yep these are few and far between. Most LHS price themselves out of the market now days. Yep realize they got to make a profit but they carried away and I refrain from buying from them. I'm sure there are plenty of retired folks that are knowledgeable about the hobby could get jobs at the places and not require a large pay check. I know I'd do it more for the fun of meeting and helping folks make a selection and see them leave happy. Only trouble is I do not have one close enough to where I live. Later RJD


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## Cap'nBill (Dec 27, 2008)

I've seen two of three LHS's fold in the last few months. The third, I visit only in emergencies! The 'help' knows nothing of the specifics. The owner is usually in the back room. And, my biggest peeve: The guy has one of these telephone ear plug gismos. I can't recall how many times I'm mid-sentence, and the guy starts talking. I think he's talking to me, and he's answering the phone! I'm standing there, I've driven there, I have money.......or plastic, and he makes me wait to have some conversation................Thanks, I buy almost everything online. My Postal delivery ladies are happy to deliver my mail, rain, sleet, or snow, big, heavy, or small. Priority mail, sometimes have it the next day, or 2 days. And, businesses wonder why they fail. Ya, I had some of the LHS guys say, " I can order it for you"......may take a month for my next order.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave Meashy,

Please let the shop owner at the rail yard know that the Lionel 2055 I bought from him (along with 4 O27 New Haven streamliners) over 10 years ago is still running great! I was running it just last night and it runs like a champ. 

We have several local hobby shops, but I am hard pressed to buy things from them. Mostly because my budget does not allow me to make impulsive purchases. At one time, a train shop in Salunga, PA was stocking large scale. His prices weren't bad and he had a lot of smaller parts that are useful. After a while though, he stopped carrying large scale because it simply didn't move. He has built his business in the coffee shop model, regular customers hanging out and is a very friendly and helpful guy. He even stocks plastic and brass for model making. And Tamiaka (sp?) acrylic model paints. Those have proved perfect for painting the aristo craft wheels!!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

A quick question, how many cars would the EBT have had in a train behind one of their mikes? 

Andre, 

There was a different maximum for each size of Mikado. #12, the first, was the smallest. #18 was the biggest and baddest. #14/15 could take 18 loaded hoppers (so I'm told) over the one small gradient on the way to Mt Union. #12, the Accucraft model, was probably limited to 16, though we'll have to wait for Kevin to wake up to get confirmation.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Its kinda sad but for a metropolitan areas the size of So Cal that we have so very few LHSs in general, and most of those carry generic stuff. 

Since San Val closed 3 years ago I havent really visited many LS shops other than Hans at Gold Coast, 
1. Allied Trains used to have a good size LGB selection but since they were sold & downsized they only carry a few LGB items and not much else LS. 
2. Same for Whistle Stop here in Pasadena, they are both decidely smaller scale oriented, not much LS but great for paint glue and building supplies. 
3.Train Shack in Burbank has also greatly reduced their LS inventory since EPL did the Big Hindenburg. I havent been there in a while though they might have a better selection now that Walthers is restocking supply. 
4.Train Stop in San Dimas I dont shop at, so I dont know their supply, 
5. Morgans Big Train Emporium is just too far away, and 
6. Chino Trains is not open on weekends. 
7. Upland trains is as always a great place to go but I havent got out that way in a while. 

Of all of these places they all gave me really great service save one. Since I have been downsized I simply havent been able to buy much as I'm still looking to sell off some things, so it's not really fair to them to go and waste their time "window shopping". I only go when I need something.


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

I have never had a good experience shopping in a hobby store for trains. I blame the employees for thinking that all people who walk into the door know exactly what they want and will grab what they want and just pay for it and leave. 

I travelled over 2000 miles to go to a train shop with the intention too drop thousands of dollars. I rented a car in order to transport it and everything. There was 6 employees in the store and only myself and the wife shopping and not one of them would give me the time of day and I had too beg them to give me what I did buy. I spent only $200 . I saved my cash for over a year and was so disappointed that wrote the store after too let the owner know of my disappointment, not that that did me any good. 

Never under estimate how much some one is going to spend. If just one of the sales person had took me seriously I would have filled the car up and would have spent $4000 and cracked my credit card out to spend even more just too save on shipping cost. 

My local Hobby store stopped carrying G scale years ago and what little they do have left they can not sell because they do not carry anything too support the hobby.. What a fool.. It is not good enough to just have a few G scale trains if your not willing too help people get what they want.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I always remember when I started in N scale years ago and had derailment problems. I went to the local hobby shop and asked for advice. The long time owner of the store who was obviously a train nut, was of no help. There were no forums like this at the time to get help, and for some reason I didn't like the idea of joining a club.

Unfortunately, like many, I only window shop at the hobby shop and buy basic supplies. I don't even bother with the one in town. I have to drive 70 miles to get to the big name store in the big city. Their large scale stock as been cut back severely over the past several years, but they do have a ton of Ozark Miniatures and other detail parts, which are nice to see in person before buying. 


Sightly off topic, but back when I was young, rich, and single ... One day I decided I was going to go out a buy a new car. I had the cash, and the check-book was literally hanging out of my back pocket. Went to the car dealership, found a car I was willing to buy on impulse .... got very excited at the prospect of driving it off of the showroom floor ... Only one slight problem. I couldn't get any of the several sales people on the floor to even look at me, or acknowledge my existence. So I walked. Probably just as well. I think I ended up getting a better car in the end, but not at that place.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I actually have an experiment underway.


This weekend I will be taking pictures of the new track I built at a local park and making a flyer for the 3 local hobby shops in the area. 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi.../114981/afv/topic/afpgj/6/Default.aspx#194580


They do seem enthusiastic about it and I hope they start to carry more than they have been. Non of the local hobby shops in South Florida carry Live Steam engines (or Accucraft products for that matter) which is sad. The great thing is, one of the local hobby shop owners has a "bunch" of Aster Live Steam and doesn't know how to run any of them (never been run). I am trying to get him out to our track with 1-2 of them to show him since I have the equipment to help him get started. This can spawn a lot of interest hopefully. (or even if he himself starts to show up more often, I will be happy anyway)


So we will see if this kicks the local gauge1 scene in the pants lol


Andrew


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Re: EBT Mikes and capacities... 

#12 (22,100 pounds tractive effort) - 15 hoppers 

Nos. 14 & 15 (27,600 pounds tractive effort) - 18 hoppers 

Nos 16 through 18 (30,600 pounds tractive effort) - 22 hoppers 

Ruling grade in the neighborhood of 2% 

Later, 

K


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Would it be common for the EBT to always run the max number of hoppers? Or would it depend more on traffic, for instance, a K-27 could pull 30 empty stock cars, but more commonly pulled less than 10? 

I went to the world's largest retailer one time, in sweats with a ball cap and a buddy of mine. I wrote a check (this was 20 years ago!), and they asked for a driver's license, credit card, and then called in to verify it. I mentioned to my buddy what a hassle it was after we left. 

I went back a week later on the way home from a job interview, and I was wearing a suit and tie. Wrote a larger check, and guess what? They didn't even ask for ID! I'll never forget that little lesson in life... 

Robert


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Went and had lunch today with a new club member, he stated that he frequented a local G scale train shop, before he had hooked up with the club.
He stated that he had spent $5,000 with this local store before he realized, through me that he had spent approx. 50% more then he could have spent, before we met. Obviously didn't do his homework, but I can realate with that because when I was new I had NO CLUE just what was out there except for Ebay. I had made some bad buys but not quite that much! 
So since we have hooked up he has been saving money on purchases. We BOTH have come to the realization that we both work hard for our money and refuse to buy from local stores that are asking MSRP. When you can get the same item for LESS SHIPPED from the other side of the country! I am not going to keep them driving a Lexus when I drive a Ranger! Local or not! 
This local business has been in business since the 70s' owns their building and such, and cannot use the excuse of them being a small business, as some of the sponsors of these forums are also smaller businesses and offer better pricing then this store!
I have had good luck with all the stores I have bought stuff from on the internet, and saved money in the process.
So if local businesses want the local support, then competive pricing would be a nice place to start...OR they can go under as far as I am concerned...as I am never going to pay MSRP for ANYTHING!
To me it makes sense to offer items at a reaqsonable price and get repeat bisiness then to not get local support! 
I would prefur to do business with local businesses but really would like to get 2-3 items instead of 1 overpriced item!

IMHO 

Bubba


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I think that's a good point, there's a guy near me that sells stuff over the 'net out of his garage. I buy a lot of stuff from him, and just drive over and pick it up, and, of course, no shipping costs. His customer service is spectacular, he'll dig through and get exactly what you want, and always has you open the box and make sure nothing's damaged before you take off. 

But, one major problem I see is the fact that in Denver, sales tax is over 10%. I know, it's pretty unbelievable! So, I can buy, say, a K-27 from out of state, and pay LESS for shipping than if I buy it in Denver and pay the sales tax. I can't blame that on the LHS, but it is a reality. 

One thing, though, is the guy selling out of his garage or basement less "deserving" of my business? I don't believe so... 

Back "in the day" I bought just about everything from Judson's Hobbies and Crafts in Denver, not because they were the "cheapest" (they weren't) or the "biggest" (they weren't) but because I just liked going there. Same with the also now closed Railroad Hobbies in Lakewood. Of course, he had the legendary barn out back, and if no one else in the country had it - he did. I remember Mike taking apart an Athearn locomotive just to sell me a part out of it, told me he'd just part it out, he was sure he'd sell all of it eventually. 

Robert


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 18 Dec 2010 04:02 PM 

I went to the world's largest retailer one time, in sweats with a ball cap and a buddy of mine. I wrote a check (this was 20 years ago!), and they asked for a driver's license, credit card, and then called in to verify it. I mentioned to my buddy what a hassle it was after we left. 

I went back a week later on the way home from a job interview, and I was wearing a suit and tie. Wrote a larger check, and guess what? They didn't even ask for ID! I'll never forget that little lesson in life... 

Robert 

Happend to a friend of a friend a few years back at a Toyota stealership, asked him (work clothes) to move his (box truck) before he could even get a word in on the new Landcruiser on the forecourt.

He took his cash (check) for his Landcruiser down the road to another dealer and then wrote the owner of the first one....


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Many of you on here complain about high prices in brick and mortar stores! Like I said big box stores, and Internet are putting the little mom and pop stores out of business, they can't compete, so they eventually go out of business. Lets' all be serious for a moment, and some have said well if they would lower their prices some, I would buy from them. No you wouldn't you'd still be looking for the lowest price like I do, and any other normal, truthful person on the planet. We all want "a deal" when it comes to buying and we all are "upset" when we find out later we have been had, or paid too much, so let's don't kid ourselves here. The Wally Weirds of the world will keep growing, and little mom and pop's will continue to go out of business from a "not so level playing field" Until you have been in a small brick and mortar store, you can't imagine or speak with any knowledge of why there are higher prices there! 

Let me give you a lesson in economics from my side of the fence been there done that! The night that Wally Weird opened up in our community, I lost 30% of my business, and it never came back, even got worse. There is no such word as "customer loyalty" when it comes to spending your hard earned money! I was in a business and myself and Wally Weird bought from the same "Wholesaler" we were forced by law to do so. Difference was I paid for a 1 case deal couldn't afford a 100 case deal like them. Here's the catch they only had to buy 1 case to get the deal. They were set up on a group buying plan which skated by the "law" They were in a mass buying group of Wally Weirds from all over our state! it was a controllable substance, it was liquor, and I was forced to pay full boat for my one case. They also got a break on the quantity shipping and freight deal. We were also forced by law to order from Omaha, a 7 hr distance from us. Lot of retailers in the trade skirt the law and just go in and buy from a store locally! (illegal) who's gonna say anything, the retailer they are buying from sells his goods and makes his profit, and the illegal acct. gets what they want for less!! No freight, and still less expensive than the wholesaler. Especially the on premise accts. (bars) who don't buy any big quantities, they could buy by the bottle. I could even buy pop and other items less expensive "full retail" from Wally Weird than buying from my wholesale distributors right in town, and sell them in my store at a reasonable markup doing it that way, rather than buying from my wholesaler!! Sad & weird but true! Regal


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

When I was in HO scale, I would drive 70 miles (one way) every other Saturday to visit my favorite hobby shop in Lincoln, NE. I loved that place, the guys were very helpful, and knew what was in their store, and knew about the product also. It took about 4 trips up there for the main guy to figure out what I modeled, and about what I wanted to spend, and if a new product came out that suited me, he ordered one and kept it back until I saw it first. If I was interested, but didn't have the money that day, it was no problem, it was just put away until I was ready. Now that was a hobby shop!!!! Unfortunately, they don't deal in Large Scale, they did offer to order anything from Bachmann that I wanted though. 

There are good hobby shops out there, you just have to keep looking. 

Chris


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## tomplatten (Sep 12, 2008)

Train stop in San Dimas has a great supply of Large Scale. I don't know how Paul can keep so well stocked. He IS primarily a Lionel dealer. His prices are a bit upscale compared to the internet but he knows a lot of people in the industry!


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## tomplatten (Sep 12, 2008)

Train stop in San Dimas has a great supply of Large Scale. I don't know how Paul can keep so well stocked. He IS primarily a Lionel dealer. His prices are a bit upscale compared to the internet but he knows a lot of people in the industry!


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## curlyp (Sep 4, 2009)

Setting up a loop of track under the Christmas tree today and the wife suggests I make it a little larger. I decided I would add 4 one foot pieces of track to spread out the circle. I only buy 5 foot lengths for the garden rr. So its off to the local hobby shop. They wanted $7.60 for each 1 foot section of Aristo-craft track! Thats a rip off in my book. I bought the four pieces I needed so I could extend the loop tonight instead of buying on line. And the owner wonders why I don't spend much money there.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Would it be common for the EBT to always run the max number of hoppers? 
Typically, yes. The mines were very productive. I'd have to go back and look to see how many trains went north from Robertsdale on a daily basis, but I think it was on the order of 4 or 5 during peak years. 

Later, 

K


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By curlyp on 18 Dec 2010 06:42 PM 
Setting up a loop of track under the Christmas tree today and the wife suggests I make it a little larger. I decided I would add 4 one foot pieces of track to spread out the circle. I only buy 5 foot lengths for the garden rr. So its off to the local hobby shop. They wanted $7.60 for each 1 foot section of Aristo-craft track! Thats a rip off in my book. I bought the four pieces I needed so I could extend the loop tonight instead of buying on line. And the owner wonders why I don't spend much money there.




$7.60 a foot? for brass Aristocrap track? Woooooooooooooow! A quick check online at Wholesaletrains shows $5.75 a foot for LGB and Aristo, track has gotten to be veeeeeeery expensive, perhaps THE most expensive compoment to the hobby these days.

Part of the problem with LHSs is that if they are only able to get thier stock thru a distributor like HK Walthers that they must pay what Walther puts their price at, and Walthers has NEVER been compitative with online sources, and that gets passed onto the mom and pop stores, so sometimes its not greedy retailers, it that they have no choice. Walthers was notorious for cutting off sellers who went around them or would do business with a competitive distributor.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I know I sound like a broken record, but be careful what you ask for - 'cause you just might get it. 

A certain 'big box' superstore came in to an area where we used to live. At first they had all kinds of stuff. They managed to put two local hardware stores and a grocers out of business. Then, wouldn't you know it? They started carrying less and less hardware and tools, and the prices sure didn't "roll back", but actually increased something like 15-20%. As for the food, their meat and produce is now just as expensive and not nearly as fresh as anybody else..... 

By all meeans, buy online to save a few nickels today, but don't forget to add in to the equation how far away the next closest hobby shop will be when you need something to finish your next project after the local one fails. Trying to buy paint and glue and Plastruct and brass strip and stripwood online is a big pain in the rump. 

And BTW, that saving on Sales Tax thing? You still owe Use Tax, and are legally obligated to report and pay it. Look it up.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Same thing going on here right now Mik, 6mos. ago started dropping items we like, replacing with their own brands, which make them more money, less variety, and on the things they know are selling well raised prices. Have to be a price detective, and watch what you are buying. Less inventory, more their label brands, and putting other smaller business's out of business is der game!!!! Regal


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By blueregal on 18 Dec 2010 06:07 PM 
Many of you on here complain about high prices in brick and mortar stores! Like I said big box stores, and Internet are putting the little mom and pop stores out of business, they can't compete, so they eventually go out of business. Lets' all be serious for a moment, and some have said well if they would lower their prices some, I would buy from them. No you wouldn't you'd still be looking for the lowest price like I do, and any other normal, truthful person on the planet. We all want "a deal" when it comes to buying and we all are "upset" when we find out later we have been had, or paid too much, so let's don't kid ourselves here.


Yes, and no. Yes, I do look for low prices, but I also make adjustments for the level of service. If the people in the store are helpful, knowledgeable, and friendly, I'm willing to pay more there than at a big box store or on-line. My gripe is that there are plenty of stores, hobby-related and otherwise, that charge a lot more than on-line companies and don't provide one iota of service, other than possibly having the item in stock. Instant gratification isn't that big of deal in my book, so being able to buy an item and walk out the door with it isn't worth a lot extra to me. In a lot of cases I've found it is actually easier to browse and purchase on-line than it is in a store (most of the time I already have a pretty good idea of what I'm looking for). But if I go into a store and nobody even pays any attention to me as a customer, or even worse, is rude or condescending, I see absolutely no reason to spend my money there.

I haven't found any correlation between the size of the business (everything from big box to major chain to local chain to local "mom & pop") and the service level. The people in my local Home Depot are some of the friendliest and most helpful I've experienced, and no, it's not a new store. And some of my worst experiences have been in one-owner local shops.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

You sometimes need to shop at the local hobby shop, or for that matter at any brick and mortar store, in order to figure out what it is that you want to buy. Deciphering the sillyness of some web and catalog advertising can get you a totally useless item that you don't want, and then have to pay to return it, AND pay a "restocking fee" for the priviledge of not understanding the web page/catalog. Of course, with the local store, you have to pay a premium price in order to see and handle the object you wish to purchase. Six of one/half dozen of the other?

The scarecity of local hobby shops is what makes this site so valuable... witness the number of threads with questions as to "which one to buy".


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

As long as the reviews here remain objective and truthful, the consumer has a valuable resource. 
If the independence of this, and other foruns, was diminished, the outcome would likely be detrimental to the consumer.


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## hobo2003 (Jan 2, 2009)

Wow I can't believe this. I work at a LHS unfortunately we don't sell trains. (Off road RC with a track) About once a week w get "I bought this on line do you have parts? No I May have something that will work. Sometimes they get luckey. There is a guy who races boats we don't sell boats but he orders some of his batteries and wire from us he comes in for soldering we do it for free. 
Who will do your souldering, who will sell you paint ,who will give you a place to play when the wife is at the shoe store or Joan Fabrics. 

Suport your local hobby store 

Excuse me do you work here or can you help me. Works well. have you tried that? 


just a little frustrated 

I wish there were more G (large scale) dealers but there's not that big a bemand .


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

To me, when a customer walks through the door or into your department, the employees should always acknowledge you by saying hello. No matter how busy you are, it doesn't take 2 seconds to say hello. As bad as I dislike Wal-Mart, they do have a greeter that welcomes you to the store. Everytime I need to buy something for the house, I pass Lowes and head to Home Depot. Why? Two reasons. The people at Home Depot are constantly asking if they can help me and most importantly, they are a true help. I can be in the electrical dept, and when the store associate ask if there is anything else I need, they don't show me where the plumbing dept is, they take me there and they help me find what I need. Everyone there knows the whole store. 
Yes, the Hobby Shops are needed. They just need to go out of their way to provide great service. 

Randy


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I frequent the local hobby shop..I just don't buy trains there. I still support them by buying my paint, spraypaint, brushes etc. They have always been helpful! I drop cash in there all the time. Here I like Hobby Towne..hate going in there as I drop way more then I should!
There is a market for a multipurpose hobby store, they will never go away. Stores that are deticated to just 1 thing, like G scale trains will have a harder go because of internet sellers, and buying more for less...this fact cannot be changed, the stronger survive the weaker parish..it is what it is! No matter what it involves.

What I hate is ANY store I walk into and they are standing around talking amonst themselves, paying you no mind..I love to interrupt them watch them scatter! Then just recently I walked into the local Lowes' and EVERYBODY was hounding me about help. Which is a very nice gester, but that other end of the spectrum is also annoying! Just wish there was a happy medium.

Bubba


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

There is one other side to this as well... There are three LHS's in the Altoona area, that I know of. Two I'd managed to find by chance, the third I'd heard of and looked for but couldn't find.

Then, one day, I found an LGB tanker on eBay... had a make an offer option... which I did and was instantly declined. THEN I happened to check to see the item location so I could factor in shipping and see if I could justify a higher offer... turns out it was in Altoona PA. So I looked up the user info... it was that third hobby shop, which I'd figured had gone out of business.

Called them up, asked for directions, and that day laid down just shy of 300, two weeks later put down another 150, and still have another 150+tax to get of stuff, and added.... about ten+ cars to my fleet. The people were friendly, and in the end, the offer I'd made on eBay's site? I got a better deal walking into the store and buying it. Plus saved shipping.

Moral of the story: Don't assume that the internet is ALWAYS going to hurt you. If you use it right, the net can help as well. Despite getting shot down on that initial offer, which I almost clicked away from, when my purchases are done, I'll have purchased six LGB tanks, two LGB 50' boxes, one aristo 40' box, and a 53' evans. Plus got a wooden truss bridge for use on the "abandoned" line on my layout. I'm now a faithful customer of this shop. I'll go there every chance I can to see if there is anything good, and would like to purchase my 2-3 USA autoracks through this shop when they come out.

If you are in the Altoona Area, be sure to look for Neely's train shop down near the ALTO control tower.

As for the discussion on customer service, I can vouch for the price/service trade off.... Niagara Hobby, just about 50min from my home town. The selection was very impressive, but the service lacked.... heart. Instead, I chose to travel the nearly 3 hours to Ridge Road Station for my goods. RRS's customer service has easily resulted in a 5,000-8,000 injection into the hobby by me over the last decade. If they had managed to tick me off on my first visit, I doubt I would have purchased my Aristo Pacific in 98. That directly led me to create my Freedom Central empire which now includes nine engine on hand, and about 100 cars of differing sorts. Further, when I go home to NY & can scheduled it, I like to go back and visit RRS, the people are still friendly and knowledgable... even if their prices can't directly compete against a large portion of iNet retailers, their service makes up the difference in price.
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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Sadly Jason, Niagara Hobby is no loner a hobby shop but a toy store and as such they no longer need to know what they did about Hobbies there. (A former employee who knew his stuff at the time) I've had bad experiences at Niagara since my employment as well as at RRS and two other MAJOR hobby supplier in NY state. All at tiems when I DROVE to the STORES (from 2 hours one way to 7 hours one way) to make major purchases and either spent nothing or very little because of the "service". One with an employee telling me that they no longer carried Stainless steel track when I had $2k in my pocket to spend. Would not even order it for me. Funny that their website listed it as in stock? I still go back but there is a huge sense of disappointment at all 4 of the referenced stores now. Partially because of those experiences but mostly because they simply do not carry the stock they did 5 years ago. Heck one NYC metro store wanted $100 for an LGB tank car with no box out of a starter set but would sell me a new 50' boxcar from LGB for $40? Does that make sense? When I was told the price I made the comparison and the lady simply shrugged. Will I still go back? Yup. 

As far as a LHS...Niagara at an hour & a half one way is still the closest but with less and less hobby related merchandise (the Plastruct & Evergreen racks were all on clearance, including the racks themselves) it will soon be time to find other sources for my hobby supplies. 

Chas


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## JohnM (Mar 3, 2010)

Well I agree the internet has really changed our hobby just as the big box retailers have altered our shopping habits and selections. Recently I commisioned my brother to build me an engine house fashioned after the McCloud River Railroad for my indoor staging tracks. So we need basic building materials and by chance I suggested we visit Arnies Trains in Westminster, Ca.

Arnies use to stock large scale but the net killed that. However I was blown away by their customer service. Since my brother has cleaned out a bunch of their evergreen supplies, they are tossing him a discount for the stuff he orders. I wish they still carried large scale, but I don't think that's reasonable to think its going to happen. 

The traInstop in San Dimas has a ton of merchandise. I've never seen that much bachmann in one spot. However plan to pay msrp. 

Upland Trains. Gotta love these guys. The shop has downsized but they keep on going.

We have another retailer I used to go to in. Orange County, but he is a nut and I will leave it at that. 

For those of you in retail, I feel for you, its gotta be tough. However do as Arnies does, set your customer service well out ahead of the rest. 

John


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not sure if everyone in the Denver area knows about it, but this week at Caboose, their After-Christmas Sale is 15% off all buildings, track and locomotives. 

So, having the cash on hand, I noted that they had the Bachmann K-27 with road number 453 (Yes the "doghouse" version, actually the brakeman shelter) for just under $700. Take away a 15% discount, and whoa! Under $600!!! Or, just above where they've been sellling on eBay lately! Yeah. 

So, I went down there, and um, well, there weren't any on the shelf. Actually, if you've been to Caboose, the larger Bachmann stuff is actually standing on end in the aisle, since it won't fit on the shelf... I asked one of the sales people, and he said everything was out, and I mentioned it was in stock on the website. He actually said that if it was on the website, it really should be in stock, so he asked another sales person, more familiar with the G aisle, who also said everything was out, BUT, when the first gentleman mentioned the website - he made a bee line for the stock room. And returned about 3 minutes later with a rather large factory sealed box! 

Done - and done! 

Yep. I guess sometimes you can make a better deal - or at least as good of one - in the LHS! I still kind of think that they need to work on their customer service a bit, though...


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

I miss those days when I could visit the "local" LS shop in Tigard or Beaverton. That was about an 8 hour one-way trip (3 1/2 hours into Anchorage; 3 1/2 hours on the flight to Portland; one more hour to final destination). I haven't stepped into one of those places in about five years. Really miss the experience. The one at Beaverton is still around, too.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

That sounds like quite a journey! Kind of reminds me of when I was in the Army, serving in the ROK, and my LHS back here in Denver would ship me whatever I needed. Of course, Tamiya kits were dirt cheap in Korea - and all the tanks came with motors and remote controls! 

Robert


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