# Hobby changes with seasonal changes



## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I know it's only early fall, but I'm curious on how others think of seasonal changes, and how it affects their hobby.

Maybe it's because I'm an ex-Californian, but it has taken me a while to not be dismayed with the onset of winter, but instead take advantage of it. 

So for me (I'm in Maryland), the seasonal change has gradually been moving toward...
- Cleanup and stowing for the layout & all outdoor stuff 
- Setting up / cleaning the garage for larger projects 
- Same for an indoor work space, for smaller model work 
- Putting together a list of "winter projects" to pick from
- Being ready for an outdoor project or two, when nice weather appears 

Does your hobby activity change with the seasons, or not? 
Does it come to a full stop in winter (giving you a break), or just change in focus?
Are there any special tricks you've learned to prepare for / work with the winter months?

===>Cliffy


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

but it has taken me a while to not be dismayed with the onset of winter 
Do like we do - spend your winters in Florida ! Which brings up its own issues - see below: 

Does your hobby activity change with the seasons, or not? Does it come to a full stop in winter (giving you a break), or just change in focus?Are there any special tricks you've learned to prepare for / work with the winter months? 

The activities are the same (making models, running trains.) But you need two sets of trains and two sets of tools. Painting with a spray can in a condo garage is challenging. Finding room in a condo is challenging. Making excuses to not go out for lunch by boat when you want to stay in and work on a train is challenging.

_(P.S. Anyone else noticed that quoting has stopped copying the line breaks?)_


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

SoCal the seasons are sort of reversed, because summers can be blistering hot. Now its getting cool enough to start working outdoors without risking heat stroke.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Cliffy, you made a "funny".









Native Californian here circa 1943 (not many of us left out here!). You know......there are NO seasons in So. Cal.....just a "slight" change of temperature now and then.







The hobby is year round.







I wouldn't want it any other way!


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## backyardRR (Aug 14, 2012)

When it gets cold I simply switch back to my HO scale layout in the house.
This also gives me time to work indoors on the G scale rolling stock.
Last Winter I added LED lighting and markers to my G scale passenger cars and a caboose.
When I wasn't doing that I was detailing the interiors of my HO 20th Century Limited cars.
No shortage of model RR things to do indoors.

Wayne


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Some years I pick up the buildings. I always pick up the cars/people and small stuff. 
I still run in the winter quite a bit, even in Neb you can have a good winter day for that. Live steam is fun in the winter. 
If it snows, I try to run my rotary snow plow I made. 
I build stuff in the winter quite a bit, got a couple of projects I'm working on and a couple in mind.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 12 Oct 2013 09:04 AM 
Hey Cliffy, you made a "funny".









Native Californian here circa 1943 (not many of us left out here!). You know......there are NO seasons in So. Cal.....just a "slight" change of temperature now and then.







The hobby is year round.







I wouldn't want it any other way!








Hi Gary, Believe it or not, I'm a fourth-gen Californian. Hence my weather adaptation issues, ha ha! 

Hey Pete, all good ideas... but isn't having homes in two climates sort of cheating?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff:

I enjoy running in the winter, with or without snow. I lived in Denver for many years before moving to Virginia. I imagine that if you lived where snow came, stayed and got deep, winter running would be difficult. But in the Denver metro area (Lakewood). I could run most of the winter. Snows deeper than a couple of inches stopped operations for a while.

Like Jerry, I really enjoyed putting my rotary through its paces. It could throw the white stuff 8' over the fence into the neighbors yard.

Winter ops in Colorado.





























Winter in Virginia.














































If you can run in winter DO IT, its a lot of fun and a different experience. There are times, when conditions are such that the rails ice up from the weight of the engine, but that doesn't happen all that often.

If there is snow or moisture it is a good idea to let the engine and cars come down to ambient temperature. This will minimize, but not eliminate icy rails.

Enjoy the season.

Chuck

PS The V&T had to contend with the white stuff. In your case it would only be prototypical. If you were modelling one of the Florida RRs it might be different.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Nice pictures, Chuck!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By CliffyJ on 12 Oct 2013 11:05 AM 
Posted By Gary Armitstead on 12 Oct 2013 09:04 AM 
Hey Cliffy, you made a "funny".









Native Californian here circa 1943 (not many of us left out here!). You know......there are NO seasons in So. Cal.....just a "slight" change of temperature now and then.







The hobby is year round.







I wouldn't want it any other way!








Hi Gary, Believe it or not, I'm a fourth-gen Californian. Hence my weather adaptation issues, ha ha! 



Small world Cliffy!







I'm also fourth generation Californian. I have some old letters dated 1848/49....place, Sacramento City. My great-grandfather was working in a hardware store my great-great grandfather owned. My GGgrandfather was born in England, therefore fourth generation. From the letters I have, he apparently raised some cattle in the Tahoe area and herded them down to Sacramento to be sold in the winter months. His hardware store prospered during and after the Gold Rush of 1849.

NOW I understand your weather adaptation "issues".







Today, I'm sitting by the pool attaching new ball-bearing trucks (courtesy of Phil at Phil's NG)to some weathered Accucraft and AMS cars. 72 degrees now, on it's way to a balmy 77.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 12 Oct 2013 12:46 PM 
Posted By CliffyJ on 12 Oct 2013 11:05 AM 
Posted By Gary Armitstead on 12 Oct 2013 09:04 AM 
Hey Cliffy, you made a "funny".









Native Californian here circa 1943 (not many of us left out here!). You know......there are NO seasons in So. Cal.....just a "slight" change of temperature now and then.







The hobby is year round.







I wouldn't want it any other way!








Hi Gary, Believe it or not, I'm a fourth-gen Californian. Hence my weather adaptation issues, ha ha! 



Small world Cliffy!







I'm also fourth generation Californian. I have some old letters dated 1848/49....place, Sacramento City. My great-grandfather was working in a hardware store my great-great grandfather owned. My GGgrandfather was born in England, therefore fourth generation. From the letters I have, he apparently raised some cattle in the Tahoe area and herded them down to Sacramento to be sold in the winter months. His hardware store prospered during and after the Gold Rush of 1849.

NOW I understand your weather adaptation "issues".







Today, I'm sitting by the pool attaching new ball-bearing trucks (courtesy of Phil at Phil's NG)to some weathered Accucraft and AMS cars. 72 degrees now, on it's way to a balmy 77.









Gary, my great-grandpa was one of the early settlers of Ceres, CA. Heard of that? 

Anyway, given the volume salt you're dumping into the wounds







, it doesn't sound like you're having that much sympathy / insight into the questions I've posed... but "thanks for sharing..."


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy,

I'm familiar with Ceres.....I believe it is near Fresno(?) in the central Valley. Correct?

I DO HAVE "some" sympathy for you though. My first winter outside of California, was spent at Ft. Riley, Kansas in 1966 (US Army 9th Division). Pulled guard duty in mid-November. Like 20 degrees during the day and 0 or below, at night. I swore at that moment, if I got home from Vietnam, I was NEVER living outside of SoCal!







JMHO.

Sorry 'bout derailing your post.







I'm going outside to get some more "rays".


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I only have two seasons Run and Not run.


The run season is about 9 months when the weather is nice here in AZ 

Not run is about 90 days Part of June, all of July and Aug and part of Sept.


During Not run time I may run late at night or early in morning 


JJ


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Actually here in the hills in Orange County, California, we have two seasons; windy and beautiful, and just beautiful.

Unfortunately windy and beautiful lasts for 7 months and just beautiful lasts for 5 months. Windy is not windy every day, (actually only a dozen days or so), but you never know what day it will occur. While we could physically run trains ~340 days a year, from October through April they have no industry or businesses to support because the structures are stored in the garage.

But during the winter the gardening for the railroad is less frequent and it gives me more time to play with my Corvettes and vintage JBL projects. That's also when I come up with the new features for the coming season.

And if it matters, I am a native Californian born in Hollywood Hospital on the hill overlooking Los Angeles in 1954.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Weather is getting nice here now so can be outside all day.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, in southern california, if you are near the coast the only difference between summer and winter is the days get shorter in winter. 

I have to run lighted cars in the evenings now after work ha ha! 

Greg


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Hey Cliff 
ANother MD guy here, I do hobby year round. Leave buildings and selected vehicles out, and set up radiant heater now and then to run in cold weather. As others have said, snow is great, have the plow car ready. Also live steam looks great. I find high summer bloody hot and buggy, so like cold weather running. Plus of course shop work planning expansions, etc/ 
Jerry


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yes there are seasons in the desert. Of course John, "Totalwreck", says I live in the mountains... 
The trees that change color and drop leaves,.. are ..! 
The bugs, grasshoppers, have voracious appetites this time of year. The garden is slowing and dissappearing. Most plants will be consumed soon... 

Over winter I will tackle my yearly crop of grass. Two years ago I started in mid Dec. Last year in mid Nov. This year allready after the grass, in mid Sept. I will be clearing more areas for further expansion on the main line. Also complete clearing of the Narrow gauge area. 

With severe cold spells I simply get shut down in all activities..mearly running in survival mode. 

So I look forward to more progress. And the fulfillment of further work projects. Collectively adding more to what I now have. 

Next year looks brighter in that regard!!! Dirk


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## CLBee (Dec 11, 2009)

I have been in shorts with no coat in the snow and been working on the railroad. Summer is too hot.


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## Tahoe1 (Nov 10, 2008)

Ceres ,Ca. Is actually more of a suburb of Modesto. Fresno is quite a bit south. 
Have a friend that raises Almonds outside Ceres/Hickman great times shooting squirrels out there!! 
I'm a native Californian,first generation. 
Born and Raised in Oakland Ca. 
I can go ANYWHERE and NOT BE AFRAID!!!!!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Great points all on winter operations. In addition to op's though, I'm also bringing up the point of adaptation of viewpoint. When I first started in the hobby, I got bummed when fall came around. More than that, I was almost frantic to get certain major construction goals completed -- especially those involving concrete. Further, it's always seemed like the winter season was something to endure and get through. 

Last year though, I started seeing things a little differently. I'd accumulated a list of indoor projects that I was looking forward to getting to. And I made major revisions to the garage, to make it more useful and habitable as a work space. This year, I'm getting a handle on weeds, leaves, and cleaning up / buttoning down the property in general. So now, I'm actually looking forward to the winter season. Big change for me.

BUT, it IS a transition -- for me. A transition in kinds of activity, mainly; and maybe expectations. 
So back to op's: Great pics Chuck, and thanks for your insights. Now that I've got track down and functioning, I'm looking forward to attempting "winter runs." And as you point out, the V&T did have to deal with the snow. Specifically, they used a wedge plow, mounted on a 4-4-0 (the Dayton) which was often helped from behind by another loco... 









Or maybe two... 










Which sometimes resulted in...












I've not assembled this plow setup yet, but am looking forward to. In the mean time, I finally got an Aristo plow car, and will shove that around!

===>Cliffy


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Ouch!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff, interesting pictures. Looking at your second picture, could it be that the lead engine was dead and didn't have a fire and was just used as a wedge plow? It is caked in ice, unlike the other engines that are pushing. The engineer in the lead loco could not see forward and the coal bunker in the tender is covered with snow, not likely if a fireman was shoveling coal. Maybe you can see more in your original copy of the picture. Just curious. Chuck


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I like having the seasonal differences..it works really well with Garden railroading in particular: 

7 months of the year, Spring, Summer and Autumn: outside working on the railroad. 
5 months of the year, Winter (Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb and March) indoors working on model building. 

I do a lot of scratchbuilding and kitbashing, so winter is my model-building season. 
LOVE the seasons! wouldn't have it any other way. 
you couldn't pay me to live in Florida or Arizona, or anywhere without snow..I cant stand the heat. 

Scot


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot, I know you are in the lake effect area. Do you and other LSers occasionally run in the white months, are you totally shut down? I spend part of my winter in Virginia and part in Arizona. I get some snow and no HEAT. CHUCK


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By CLBee on 12 Oct 2013 06:57 PM 
I have been in shorts with no coat in the snow and been working on the railroad. Summer is too hot. 
I can't wear shorts here the Cactus quills are in the dirt waiting for one last chance to stick me. In some areas they are more abundant than others










I have taken to wearing my cowboy chaps in the more abundant areas....









JJ


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chuck n on 13 Oct 2013 04:56 PM 
Scot, I know you are in the lake effect area. Do you and other LSers occasionally run in the white months, are you totally shut down? I spend part of my winter in Virginia and part in Arizona. I get some snow and no HEAT. CHUCK 



Nearly everyone completely shuts down for the winter..
Once in awhile you will hear of a live-steamer running in the winter, and once in awhile someone will run a "snowplow extra"! 
but they are definitely very rare occurrences in these parts.
Most people bring in all the buildings and shut things down for 5 months..

Scot


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, that is what I thought, but inquiring minds! Chuck


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Speaking of seasons, and not to change the subject, but whatever happened to Amber? She of the garden RR in the U.P.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By chuck n on 13 Oct 2013 01:49 PM 
Cliff, interesting pictures. Looking at your second picture, could it be that the lead engine was dead and didn't have a fire and was just used as a wedge plow? It is caked in ice, unlike the other engines that are pushing. The engineer in the lead loco could not see forward and the coal bunker in the tender is covered with snow, not likely if a fireman was shoveling coal. Maybe you can see more in your original copy of the picture. Just curious. Chuck Good points Chuck, and good eye. But perhaps the snow just iced up while the loco cooled down? Don't know.

Here's a link to the hi-res version. Turns out there were four locos on this push. Fortunately for the fireman, the lead loco was converted from wood to oil in 1908 (3 years prior, I believe).

http://wnhpc.com/details/tey0092/f 


Here's another pic, perhaps with the same four locos steamed up, but at the other end of the trip (Virginia City, vs. Carson City):










Be fun to try to re-create that scene!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By Scottychaos on 13 Oct 2013 02:19 PM 
I like having the seasonal differences..it works really well with Garden railroading in particular: 

7 months of the year, Spring, Summer and Autumn: outside working on the railroad. 
5 months of the year, Winter (Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb and March) indoors working on model building. 

I do a lot of scratchbuilding and kitbashing, so winter is my model-building season. 
LOVE the seasons! wouldn't have it any other way. 
you couldn't pay me to live in Florida or Arizona, or anywhere without snow..I cant stand the heat. 

Scot Good on you Scott, that's precisely the positive attitude I'm trying to transition to. 

And for me, having a cold-weather agenda (e.g., a focus on modeling) really helps. 

I've spent the last few summers mainly on infrastructure (trees, grading, deck, retaining walls, steps, fill, gravel paths, concrete roadbed), and usually the good news about winter was the absence of a negative, such as "Well, at least my back, knees and elbows have a few months to recover." Not that I worked all that constantly, but you get the point. But now, I'm seeing it as an opportunity for different sorts of activity. 


===>Cliffy


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff, thanks for the high rez link. I just don't see any sign of life in the lead loco. Perhaps they learned from your third picture that it wasn't safe for the engine crew to be that close to steam and fire when the plowing engine is being pushed by four more engines. Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By chuck n on 14 Oct 2013 03:24 PM 
Cliff, thanks for the high rez link. I just don't see any sign of life in the lead loco. Perhaps they learned from your third picture that it wasn't safe for the engine crew to be that close to steam and fire when the plowing engine is being pushed by four more engines. Chuck It's a great question Chuck. I'll put it to the V&T Historical Society folks, usually they'll have an answer. 

[edit] Here's what I asked:

In this pic of a lashup of (I think) 4 locos in Carson, the lead (Dayton) is severely iced up.


http://wnhpc.com/details/tey0092



Was the Dayton merely being pushed, like a dead plow? Or was it actually under steam? 



Here's a similar photo, from the VC end, and I'm wondering if it was from the same snow plowing trip:



http://contentdm.library.unr.edu/cd...&REC=9



If so, the Dayton is clearly under steam. 



Cliff




I'll let you know what they say.

Thanks Chuck,
Cliff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff, thanks! I'm looking forward to the reply. Chuck


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff, my interpretation is that the two pictures represent different events. The original picture has the engine covered by a thick coat of ice. The second picture it is partially covered by snow. No buildup of ice. Virginia City i(second link) is higher than Carson City (first link). It is unlikely the ice would have melted on the way up. Also, the plow engine in the arrival, Virginia City, picture shows black smoke coming from the stack. All other engines are in full steam. My guess is that they had just fired it up. 

Chuck 

PS, Carson City is at about 4700' and Virginia City is about 6100'. The road distance is about 15 miles. I do not have the length of the track between the two. It must have been significantly longer. But, I don't think that it is possible to melt all that ice on a trip between the two towns and add new snow to the top of the engine.

According to the V&T web site the original track was 21 miles long. The current scheduled time for the trip is about one hour thirty minutes. Obviously it took longer pushing a plow.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

All good points Chuck.

What I was just told:

In general, a steam locomotive should be fired up when 
moved any distance, as steam pressure is required to 
maintain lubrication.

If you look at the photo, the air compressor and cylinders 
are generally clear of snow... a sign of heat... I suspect 
the boiler is covered in snow because this is the lead 
engine, and snow from the plow was greater as it was the 
lead engine...

I notice that the second loco isn't faring hugely better than the first, and only the fourth has what might be a clear cab. 

From another clue, 

Looking at the first photo I don't see a generator on the second loco, (No. 25?) which indicates pre 1917. 

This indicates perhaps the same event (second photo is 1916), though that's supposition.


Thanks for the exchange!

Cliff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Cliff, I'm still not convinced. It is easy to convert snow to ice, but not in the other direction. This has been fun. We may never know for sure. Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I agree, it's a mystery. IMO, the Carson city shot was taken after the run to VC and back, with most of the ice accumulating on the home run. Like you say though, we may never know for sure. 

Back to other wintry activity, I guess you button up your VA home & layout, and head to AZ? You have a layout in both locations, correct? 

For me, I'm trying finish the deck (stripping / staining / repairing), and maybe do some drainage work while things are reasonably decent outside.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff. I have trains in both places. The layout in AZ is seasonal, I just lay some track down on the patio and add some buildings for effect. It all goes back in the house when we leave. I do take out my battery powered Aristo Mallet so I can run as a visitor on some layouts out there. I have a lot of my LGB out there so I can run it. Back here it is mostly 1:29 and 1:20.3 that I run. Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I was informed last night that the V&T put boards across their front cab windows, on the lead locos, to prevent the glass from breaking. Wonder if that was standard practice for other RR's.


Eventually I'd like to try to model this setup, probably have to do it from scratch. Does anyone recall an article on how to make a blade like this?









Anyway, still got plenty of warmer weather left! After a couple weeks of on-off rain, this weekend I'm hoping to get final stain on the wood deck I'm restoring. Then a bunch of end-o'-season yardwork... then maybe back to actual train stuff


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff: 


Many years ago I used a beer or coke can for the blade on my wedge plow (northeast narrow gauge kit). 










It may take some experimenting to get the correct cuts.

You might start by experimenting with a 3 or 4 inch diameter scrap of PVC pipe. Once you get that to look OK you could then form the aluminum can to fit the contours.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Pretty loco there Cliff. Ya ..start with what you "know", and build as you go! You can post a thread on a snow plow how to! 
Some experimentation with easily formed scraps to get you to the correct rolled size will help. Even just using paper to start with, to give you the feel for the shapes and sizing. Make slightly over size parts you can trim once you get closer to the final form. I just read where someone used brass sheet for a plow also, easy to solder joints and clean up. Using a .005" or .010" sheet would be about the scale thickness needed here, over layed on the wood base with glue and rivets.Ya could get Marty to help with the rivet counting. He's good at that sort of thing!! 

Looks like a fun winter project for future winter storms!! 

Dirk


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

If I ever get the next layout built, I definitely want to run some snowplow extras. The new layout will be about 36 to 40 inches off the ground, so the snow would probably fall off that platform once pushed by the plow. I have read that the plow and locomotives must be the same temperature as the outside air, else they will melt some snow on the railheads - which will then turn to ice and insulate the train from the power supply. This will not be a problem, as the equipment can be stored in a garden barn. I have also read somewhere that spraying a light layer of PAM on the plow blade will help prevent snow from sticking to the blade.

The other seasonal change I have found delight in, is that as the weather gets cooler, I get better and better plumes from my little live steamer. I have read others' comments about this, but experiencing it first hand is a lot more fun.

Best,
David Meashey

P.S. I once read an article in Railroad magazine about snow plowing, and "bucking," in the "Good Old Days." The crews would use about three locomotives for this task, and the lightest locomotive was always coupled to the plow. The reasoning was that if the plow - and the lead locomotive - went on the ground, the two remaining heavy hogs would have no trouble pulling them back onto the rails again.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

We use two or three locos to "buck" the snow. Our plow is built with PVC, oh, 3", black, cut and glued. Adjustable, spring loaded (back up, blade lifts, snow caught under the blade is left on the track). 
Plastic wheels on the plow to minimize ice buildup. 
Mounted to a scrap Bachmann long gondola, painted MOW grey.....lead ingots in the bottom, covered in rock. 
Before I got the plethora of gondolas I have now, I could convert it back to a full regular gondola in less than 10 minutes. 
To keep the trucks from spreading apart under weight and force, I use a paperclip, bent to fit just under the sideframe screws, and solder the loose ends. 
Trucks don't flex outwards at all now.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for all the great tips, gentlemen! 

Since this is my first year with completed track / controls, and since I recently acquired an Aristo plow car, I'll probably use that for this winter. 

With weights, Pam, etc. as you've pointed out, Dave & TOC. I have an HLW Big John that (with its 2 motors, I think) might be a good one to push with for now. 

But thanks Chuck & Dirk for the insights on making the 4-4-0 plow, you make it sound quite doable! 

Cliff


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