# Got some more newb questions for ya!



## RRwannabe (Jan 20, 2009)

First off, Is there no links page on this forum that has like links to common mfgs, vendors, and so forth?

Next, I have an 1000 sq ft house so there's definetly no room for an indoor layout, which means I'm going outside. Luckily I have 11.15 Acres to work with! (I'm not trying to track the whole thing but to say the least I have no limits) Now I'm in the proccess of building a pond and would kind of like it to loop half way around that. Now can track power be used and the track not be layed in a complete loop?


Next question I want my layout to include like to small yards on each end, various grade changes and a long straight where I can build up alot of speed, what kind of speed can say a modern diesel hit? And is there realiability issues at top speed as faras derailing and such? (im just trying to figure how important a nice long straight would be to me)


last question for now. I have a decent understanding of track power, DCC, and battery and R/C. In my head it seem like it would be better for me to combine R/C and track power. Is that possible and is there a link that explainds how to do such? 


Thanks for your Help and this is just a few of many more to come. I'm sure even your answers will generate more questions.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By RRwannabe on 01/26/2009 7:10 AM
First off, Is there no links page on this forum that has like links to common mfgs, vendors, and so forth?

Next, I have an 1000 sq ft house so there's definetly no room for an indoor layout, which means I'm going outside. Luckily I have 11.15 Acres to work with! (I'm not trying to track the whole thing but to say the least I have no limits) Now I'm in the proccess of building a pond and would kind of like it to loop half way around that. Now can track power be used and the track not be layed in a complete loop?


Next question I want my layout to include like to small yards on each end, various grade changes and a long straight where I can build up alot of speed, what kind of speed can say a modern diesel hit? And is there realiability issues at top speed as faras derailing and such? (im just trying to figure how important a nice long straight would be to me)


last question for now. I have a decent understanding of track power, DCC, and battery and R/C. In my head it seem like it would be better for me to combine R/C and track power. Is that possible and is there a link that explainds how to do such? 


Thanks for your Help and this is just a few of many more to come. I'm sure even your answers will generate more questions. 




Dear Mr Whateveryournameis - I think you'll find that many of the supporters of this website are actually dealers in one way or another selling just about everything you could possibly imagine, from custom decals in vinyl or paint/ink to steel bridges, and trains of all kinds.


The fact is that the USA [if that is where you live] is SO big that touting one vendor or another in the in these days of the internet, advising you on any one particular dealership is pretty fruitless, unless you tell us where you are located and we can advise you where the door is that will lead to the things you want - your profile has no information of any kind, not even your name, and you didn't sign off with a name either. Many here subscribe to, or buy on the odd occasion, the 'Garden Railway' magazine, that seems to be full from one end to the other with vendors, all very keen to take your money off you - and looking at your plans, that will keep a few lucky store-owners in clover for quite a while. I just counted over 120 vendors in my last copy....

Your other questions will bear answering from those here who actually have large layouts with long straights, Marty Cozad in Nebraska City somes to mind first off there. I think you'll find, looking at his layout on Youtube, that he keeps to the more sedate side of running, rather than trying to emulate the NYC's famous and late Mr Jones with velocity. A quick look at my physics text book tells me that it is not the length of the straight that matters, but the need to negotiate curves without projecting the long and heavy train into the next county. Like the man said - it's not the speed that actually kills you, it's the sudden cessation of movement.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you thinking of a point to pint or having a reverse loop at one end. If so then you create more problems with more wiring unless you use DCC or battery. If using DC run feeders every 50 ft or so. Yards can be where you choose to put them. Running fast can cause derailment unless you do some good track work then the problem goes away. Depending on the locos you buy speeds can vary. If we knew the exact type track plan you are doing folks can give you more Idea's on types of power to use. Other folks will chime in with lots of info. Later RJD


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

RRwannabe,
The purpose of modern diesel/electric locomotives is economical movement of freight. Speed is always a secondary consideration. For speed nothing beats the steam era passenger trains. The fastest recorded is from the 1890's. Empire Express 999. 









As a result, most modelers are content with speeds that scale to the prototypes. The motors and gears are built for pulling power rather then speed. With the controller set for full throttle you may be disappointed with the maximum speed attainable. Besides, with a steam locomotive there is more moving parts to watch wizz around.

Yes, there are track power packs with R/C controllers. These are very common and are simple to wire. You just hook the power pack to the track as usual. 

Dave


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## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

Try this page for links to all of the *Large Scale Manufactures.* The page contains links to all of the manufacture's of locomotives and cars, not the 1000's of other manufacture's that make all of the assecories. That kind of links page is hard to keep up as the smaller manufactures tend to come and go.

There is also a page of *Online Forums.* Look which forum is at the top!









Russ Miller


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

Typical diesel freight locomotives are geared for about 65 MPH. I believe AMTRAK's engines are geared for 105 MPH.

Long straight tracks are, IMHO, boring. The biggest problem is that you will have fits with rail expansion on long straight tracks.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I, too, wanted a long straight-away to get some Highball action in. My track is two loopbacks of about 17-ft diameter on the ends of a 50-ft straight section. It is all elevated at about 3 to 4 feet so I can play with my Live Steam loco without being on the ground so much. This gave me some concern about speeds and reaching the loopback curve at the end of the straight section. I intended to build my line in a bit of a bowl shape, that way I could accelerate going down to the middle of the line and use the uphill part to have gravity help apply the brakes before the curve at the end. But my intentions failed and my track is pretty level all the way. So I have to pay attention to the throttle when runing trains... but that is why I run them anyway so that is just part of the fun.

I have discovered that from one end of the 50-ft straight section (I wanted lots more, but have only so much room) that it is hard to determine how fast the train is going at the other end. I was also a bit surprised at how small the train is when it is 50 to 60 ft away!

My track is all free floating in ballast, yet it still will catch somewhere along the way (many places, actually) and will move sideways a bit under heat expansion, so my "straight" section is never quite as "straight" as I intended.

I do like the straight section and it is fun to get up to 120 Scale MPH with my Mikado(s), but I wish I had the room to make some long sweeping curves around small hills too. 

I recommend that if you make a squiggly track that it not be just a bunch of "S" curves, the curves need to exist for some purpose, like going around a water feature or small hills, where it would make ecconomic sense for the RR to have built the track that way... easier to go around than to go straight through, or produce a better grade to snake up a hill than to try to go straight up (you don't actually have to have a grade to make it look like you do, just place some hills in the way of a straight line and have to track snake around them!)

You seem to have plenty of room for both a long straight section for high speed running and some wide sweeping curves to come back via. BOTH are fun!


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

here are some links for you-sorry too lazy to [*url] link them all......

http://www.ridgeroadstation.com/trains.shtml 

http://www.staubinonline.com/ 

http://www.trainworld.com/ 

http://www.wholesaletrains.com/GProducts2.asp?Scale=G&Special=0 

http://www.train-li-usa.com/ 

http://store.wattstrainshop.com/products_new.php 

http://www.girr.org/girr/index.html 

http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/index.php 

http://dnkgoods.home.mindspring.com/index.html 

http://www.rcs-rc.com/ 

http://www.evo-rc.net/home.php 

http://www.gardentexture.com/ 

http://120pointme.blogspot.com/ 

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/ 

http://www.aristocraft.com/ 

http://www.usatrains.com/ 

http://www.accucraft.com/ 

those should keep you pretty busy.... 

You may also want some print material? 

http://www.trains.com/grw/ 

http://www.btcomm.com/trains/blog_like_content/06_06_blogs/jacks_book.htm 

Getting Started in Garden Railroading: Build the Railroad of Your Dreams... in Your Own Backyard 
by Miller, Allan W.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To address your last question, you can make almost any power system work anywhere. Depending on your climate, the amount of effort you want to go to, and your budget. 

[*] Battery and wireless r/c [*]track power and wireless r/c [*]track power and "wired rc" (like DCC) 
[/list] can all work just fine in most locations 

Rather than repeat the endless debate on which is better, I suggest you first figure out what you will expect to do on your layout, and your priorities, for example:

[*]how many users at the same time [*]how many locos at the same time [*]multiple locos/consisting needed [*]Budget [*]length of trains [*]etc. etc. etc [/list] 

I'd recommend reading some "getting started" books. 

I have a FAQ section on my web site: *[url]http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/beginners-faqs-mainmenu-49* [/url]

Modesty aside, read ALL of them!!

Your locomotives will come ready for DC track power. Unless low cost of track is a priority (and that is a reasonable situation!), you can set up for track power initially, but there's even fundamental choices in track material, and if you go to the trouble to make it "bulletproof" conductive.

My best advice is to read, there are TONS of track vs. battery threads here.


Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Greg is right, 

I started learning all about trains on this forum and the various threads. Hours researching and reading/viewing. 

Then I would post outrageous ideas (still do) on this forum and in turn get slapped around and straightened out by the experts. 


I have yet to turn the turf for my track construction project however how I build it is confirmed. As for technology, practical Vs personal needs reigns. Study the threads !!! All of the technology is good... 


And finally, where do you live! If in "frost" country I have ideas !

gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*You could also use MTH DCS system as well, it will run on DC, DCS,and soon DCC. it is a great system with sounds and chuffing smoke that 2nd to none, in my opionion. and is installed already in all mth locos and can be fitted to anything with a flywheel...its really cool to operate and is equally as impressive as the other systems, as been said, you have so many choices, read up and use the one that bests suits what your looking for.. heres a video of a aristo mikado with MTH system running on dc only and with MTH smoke unit. 2nd video is of 2 dash -9s running on track power with QSI plug and play system for aristo locos, witch can also be used with dcc.... 3rd video with track powered sd-70s with phoenix sound.*


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Steam locomotives adds class to the railine and the MTH DCS system brings it all out ! If you like puffing smoke and Engine "sound" that is. 


Check out Raymond's website if you want to hear the sounds and understand the technology. Be aware however DCS is not universal compared to DCC. (Study the threads on this forum) 

http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/




gg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Also remember MTH is 1/32 scale as compared to USAT and Aristo which is 1/29th. As they say read and do the home work. Later RJD


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I ordered the book off Amazon today... 

Great reading coming !

gg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like you have a great location. My X now has our little house and 2 acres. 

I think you want to spend some time reading forums, the garden railways magazine, visiting people and seeing how different people do things. As soon as spring comes, get a loop of track on the ground and run a train. Then, whilst the train is running, sit back in a lawn chair, think about what you've seen and read, and decide what you want to do next. 

R/C and track power is quite workable. In fact, an R/C loco is a great accessory on an otherwise track powered layout. I usually run mine on track powered layouts, except when I visit Ric or Marty who have no powered track. Of course, since I now live in motel, my equipment only runs when I go visiting. Fortunately, I have this beautiful garden just half an hour away


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## RRwannabe (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks for the replies! I know there not going to be fast but I don't want to watch my trains run in constant loops at constant speed. I want to to be able to as Semper Vapro was saying handle my trains. Like, for example, couple a dash 9 to a short inter-modal consist in a yard. Pull out of the yard into some tighter corners then into a long sweeping one, build up some speed down a long straight then slow it back down before entering some more curves and another yard. I know what Modern diesel locomotives are for but there are freight trains that high ball though the dessert and other rural areas at 70 mph. I don't want loops at either end because from what I've read on here there more trouble than there worth, unless you have batteries but who wants to change/ charge batteries up all the time. (Haha, its joke, just being here a week or two and I've read more arguing over power than anything) I want basicly a yard on each end and a wye to turn the power(locomotives) around in each yard. With some small industry switching and passing sidings in between yards A and B. When I get a chance I'll make a quick drawing in ms paint I guess.


As far as my engines, My lay out will consist of Modern diesel freight, I wouldn't mine a steamer to run from time to time but they all seem fairly pricey and I have less interest in them as I am young and well.... you know how that goes. I feel it will be mostly just me running but who knows, I also am going to stick with 1:29 scale stuff as it seem more readily available especialy for modern stuff as i found out in my last thread


Now knowing that Track power and R/c are capalbe together I have a few more questions. Say I want to run a SD-70 and Dash 9 together Are There R/c parts capable of making those trains run at the same speed like I was reading about in a DCC thread? 

For some reason I just forgot some of the stuff I was thinking







but i'm sure it will come to me agian tommarow while I m day dreaming at work. Thanks again and hope i'm not being to much of a nuisence. 
-Ryan


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Ryan... with this last comment... 

"Now knowing that Track power and R/c are capalbe together I have a few more questions. Say I want to run a SD-70 and Dash 9 together Are There R/c parts capable of making those trains run at the same speed like I was reading about in a DCC thread?" 

You have just opened pandora's box ! 

DCC Vs DCS.... 

How techno-saavy are you and where do you want to put your efforts? Techno side or Garden side? 

I will now leave you to the GURUS here on this forum. 

gg 

PS: Evaluate DCS and DCC in any final decision.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, but I think you are getting into the details a bit quickly. 

I will assume your question is literally what you asked: can I match speeds of 2 locos, and with a single control for the 2 locos. 

Yes, and the systems that come to mind are: (track power systems listed only, since he put that there) 

The new Aristo TE system (out soon) (You are welcome Lewis) 
The MTH DCS system 
Any DCC system 
Any AirWire-based system (pretty darn close to DCC) 

I just know I left something out, but someone will be here fast to correct me, ha ha ha. 

Regards, Greg


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## RRwannabe (Jan 20, 2009)

well then let me further clarify on that.All I need to worry about is me running for now, more than likely Aristo and USA engines. I want to be able to run 2-3 engines at a time(as in 1 power lash up) as well as maybe two seperate locos at a time (as in drive one the turn on another and drive it without the other moving) And I definetly want track power and a hand held "Cab" or controller . I DON'T WANT BATTERIES









I guess when I Say R/c I feel like I should be able wire in a "chip" of some kind that includes some type of ESC and a way to opperate Accesories such as lights and sound and bam Im good to go. I'm sure I'm wrong because I haven't read anything that simple about power on here yet. It Seems like DCC is more complicated and cost more to setup but I'm still reading and learning. I know In DCC you need the decoders and a power supply and the transmitter(maybe multiple transmiters) and a cab. right?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can either use an R/C system that forces you to follow the loco (antenna in loc) or a system that has expandable base stations (antennas on the ground). 

The first method may wind up being cheaper, but you might find you can only control a loco you are close to. 

The second method is what I use, where I have several base stations to cover a large area, all part of a single system. The base stations communicate with the hand held throttles, and then the system puts the signals on the rails. 

There's a lot of ways to solve this problem. 

Regards, Greg


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## RRwannabe (Jan 20, 2009)

So an Air signal for a loco doesn't work as far as say an R/c Car or Plane? 


http://s407.photobucket.com/albums/pp156/RRwannabe/?action=view&current=layout.jpg 
I cant figure out how to URL stuff on this site but that is how i'm thinking of doing a layout to go back to some of my first questions.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not normally. One thing is that you have interference since you often have objects around or in the way. Also, many of the systems used have electrical interference problems. Many locos have "hostile" electrics in them from the factory, like switching power supplies. There is no cool way to conceal a straight antenna inside until you get to the higher freqs. 

Most good systems will give you reasonable control to about 100 feet. Sure some people get more, but you want reliability, not just a world's record distance for ringing a bell. 


The link you provided can work in a browser, but it does not want to be embedded somehow.

*http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp156/RRwannabe/layout.jpg*

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

QUOTE..[You have just opened pandora's box !]
No you havent, each system has its own merits and bolth are great, just need to figure out whats best for you. some new people would have you think theres a pandoras box, but theres not. they are not up to speed and based on the posts here have not bought there system yet so to comment either witch way without owning either system is kindof foolish..


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This may seem to basic but to do what you want you have to put a "decoder" in each loco. The decoder gets command signals either over the air, like a remote for a model car or plane, or through the track, by either DCC or DCS. 

You can run a train on batteries and control it remotely. If you do that you put batteries in each loco along with the decoder, and then send command signals with a wireless remote. You can do that with Aristocraft's TE, with RCS, or with Airwire. The big advantage of battery is A; you never have to clean the track, just get major debris off, and B: You don't need to fuss about track wiring for things like reverse loops or wyes. Lots of people love batteries


You can run a loco on straight DC and operate it with wireless remote. You put a decoder in each train and then you can use Aristos TE, or Airwire. Advantage is it's simpler and less expensive to start. This is what I do, using QSI decoders and Airwire


You can run a train on a system that sends digital signals through the rail. The standard is DCC (digital command control) DCS is a similar system but it's exclusive to the MTH company. Advantages include very sophisticated control of the locos and ease of operation with reverse loops; it's also the cheapest to add locos to once you have the DCC components in place


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## RRwannabe (Jan 20, 2009)

So wye's are just as hard to setup as Reverse loops? I haven't found much info on those since they seem less popular. Is a lay out like I have in mind possible? Do I need to wire the ends together or just add power connections to the track every few yards?

I guess I felt like my idea of a track powered R/c (is that DCS?) would be the cheapest way out for me and my layout idea. But maybe DCC is the way i'll go. I really think I would like to steer clear of batteries, the only plus i see to them is dont have to clean the track. which reminds me, do those track cleaning cars work?


-Ryan


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By RRwannabe on 01/27/2009 6:29 AM
So wye's are just as hard to setup as Reverse loops? I haven't found much info on those since they seem less popular. Is a lay out like I have in mind possible? Do I need to wire the ends together or just add power connections to the track every few yards?

I guess I felt like my idea of a track powered R/c (is that DCS?) would be the cheapest way out for me and my layout idea. But maybe DCC is the way I'll go. I really think I would like to steer clear of batteries, the only plus i see to them is dont have to clean the track. which reminds me, do those track cleaning cars work?


-Ryan 






Wyes and reverse loops are equally complicated, but they aren't all that complicated and some DCC boosters will automatically switch the polarity on the fly, with no interruption. Greg knows about those--I don't run DCC on track and don't have any real experience.

You can do what you want without much trouble--I would just add power feeders every so often. I have a roughly 2-300 foot layout and it has three power hookups. It's been fine. In my experience the cheapest way to go, if you only have a few locos, is track power and remote control. That's what I did; I wanted independent control of 3-4 locos, did not want to mess with batteries, and had a bunch of brass track. I used constant track poqwer and wireless remote, using Aristo's old 75 mhz system. Works very well, but very limited. Then I upgraded to QSI/Airwire, which sends DCC signals over the air. Once I saw how much more you can do with DCC, I was hooked. Now I'm gradually changing the brass over to stainless and thinking about going to DCC--partly so I can install a automated reverse loop with minimal fuss, partly because it's cheaper to add decoders. But I think track power/wireless remote is the cheapest way to get independent control of multiple locos


Some battery guys will dispute that: they point out that if you run on batteries, you can use cheaper aluminum track and you don't need to worry about continuity from track section to section, which most people address using rail clamps. The clamps are not cheap, and eventually you'll need them. If you buy long pieces of rail and bend it yourself, you don't need as many clamps, but Marty Cozad, for example, runs a fantastic, really large railway and uses all batteries partly because I think he assumed maintaining track continuity over a long long long mainline would be a pricey headache. 


The answers to these things--which is cheaper, for example--depend on a bunch of stuff, including how many locos do you plan to run, how much range do you need,etc. I built our layout piecemeal, a little at a time, when I had the extra money. If I was starting over, and had a chunk of money to spend, I'd buy all stainless track and a DCC system to start. 

Oh, and track cleaning--yes, the track cleaning cars work very well. I run the aristo track cleaner around for five minutes and then run it now and then while I'm running other trains. Works like a charm. It's the only track cleaning I do, except now and then cleaning the switches. Brass track is fine; the advantage of stainless is it needs even less cleaning. Yesterday I ran some trains while messing with DCC settings, without running the cleaning car, and I could see very clearly that the trains slowed down on the brass sections and sped up on the Stainless sections

I like your idea of a long long mainline run--search the web for Jens Bang and snake river railroad, he did a really magnificent job doing what you describe.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Cheaper in the long run will bring a bunch of aguments. 

Before you try to go there, you have to be sure of the scenario you choose. 

Battery power with a few trailing battery cars and aluminum track will definitely be cheaper than DCC with a decoder in each loco. 

Simple R/C with basically go and stop and a few functions will be cheaper than DCC. 

I will say this, that with "high functionality", and independent loco control, (and this will bring more arguments on what you need/want), track powered and a decoder per loco will be cheaper than an EQUIVALENT battery system. No, an Aristo TE is not an equivalent system. 

So, before the "who's better" wars start, you need to pick what you need in terms of functionality, number of locos running at the same time, if you have multiple units/doubleheading etc. etc. 

I will guarantee you that if you do your homework there, the answer of "What is best" (for you) will not only be a simple decision, but any rational person, given the appreciation of your particular circumstances, will agree with your decision. 

For reference, I run lots of locos at the same time, and lighted cars, and smoke, and several operators, and I need independent control, and to mu diesels and use helpers, and every loco needs to be ready to run at a moment's notice. 

Thus, my system turns out to be the most economical for me. 

Regards, Greg 

Regards,


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 01/26/2009 8:53 PM
QUOTE..[You have just opened pandora's box !]
No you havent, each system has its own merits and bolth are great, just need to figure out whats best for you. some new people would have you think theres a pandoras box, but theres not. they are not up to speed and based on the posts here have not bought there system yet so to comment either witch way without owning either system is kindof foolish..












Agreed, however not foolish in my opinion. 

Having not bought a system yet and however by doing my homework by reading, understanding and engaging in open conversations I know that I will be very happy when I do bite the bullet on my system of choice. This rather than "I wish that I had done it differently" comments a year from now. 


The Pandora's box comment refers to the various control system camps on this forum and the commitment and dedication they have to their particular control system. I've seen some pretty lively discussions.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm going to disagree a bit. You don't really know what you want till you've tried different things. Maybe if you come with experience in other scales, but I didn't, and all I wanted was to have a train run in a loop around the pond so neighbors and local kids would go "ooohhh!" The exploration is part of the fun. Just set up some track and start running--that's not unreasonable, and if you make mistakes, so what?


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Your points are valid.

And no doubt there will always be a wish list or "I wish I had that feature" bit. My concerns rotate around "minimizing risk" around making a serious and costly mistake. 
Smaller gaffers and mistakes..... this is the story of my life !!! Daily events here










gg 


One final note: I'll probably end up with a mix of DCC and DCS. I see room for both.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Not really disagreeing with you lownote, but a little i guess. Alot of folks including myself do not have the resources to try several things before they buy, that is why i rely on comments, and opinions here on MLS. When I got into the hobby, I tried to get SOME info from different we'll say guru's or people in the KNOW, and I experienced some hesitancy on some of them to really provide the help I needed to really understand fully what exactly I did want. The system I picked was a culmination of looking listening and then taking a shot at what I thought was best for me considering ease of installation, price, funcionality, and all that rot. hee hee I'm sure everyone knows which system I picked and have never looked back since. I even had some problems with the chief guru of the sound part of the system I went with the throttle part I have received excellent help for. ON the sound part I am now in contact with someone who seems to genuinally have the desire to help a novice, and someone who is not electrically inclined or savy. People who ARE in the KNOW should take time to remember where they were when they first started and help, NOT CRITIZIZE the person because they are not on the same level as they are. Ran into that several times. So I just prod along at my speed and listen read learn on my own for the most part or study until it does become clear to me, and then I pass that on to anybody who asks for my limited help if I can. So I think you have to really research what you are trying to do in this hobby and then read, listen, ask questions, and then make an informed decision on what you really want to do. I guess if you buy something and then don't like it or find something better you want to try, you can always take a certain loss on what you have to then try something else. But as I say I've been lucky, and so far am very satisfied with my setup, that I use. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!! Hee hee The Regal









p.s. I've had my throttle system for well over a year or maybe two now, and I'm still learning how to do things on it. It's amazing what you can do with that little throttle. I'm amazed everyday.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Blueregal.... 

Looks like I'm the only guy here who does NOT know what system you run....


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Sent you an email. QSI/G-wire and Airwire T-9000 throttle. Hope the email helps you. The Regal


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*I think both "sides" are valid. *

There is merit to "how do you know what you want if you have not experienced it". 

I very often suggest that people determine what they want before buying stuff. 

It's not an all or nothing setup, though. 

I have never met anyone that did not have at least several answers to "close your eyes and imagine you layout is all built, what are you running, how many people there, how long the train", etc. 

I must sound like a broken record, but most people have an image of where they want to go, maybe not in specifics, but at least to where you can narrow down the choices. 

Making a decision is done by narrowing down the choices. Gambling is when you just try something to see if it works. Most of us do not have that luxury.

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Sounds like this is getting way over thunk???? just go buy and engine, cars, track and a DC power pack and run some trains...... the rest will come when you figure out what it is you want.







JEEEEEEEEEEEEZ this is not rocket science, its a hobby have fun with it..


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well it's all good info even tho I have made my decisions for power. Interesting to still see the options and just makes me feel that much better knowing I choose the correct system and more satisfied every day.







Later RJD


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 01/27/2009 3:17 PM
Sounds like this is getting way over thunk???? just go buy and engine, cars, track and a DC power pack and run some trains...... the rest will come when you figure out what it is you want.







JEEEEEEEEEEEEZ this is not rocket science, its a hobby have fun with it..










 




This was the best of the day!!! And so true. LOL


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 01/27/2009 3:45 PM
Well it's all good info even tho I have made my decisions for power. Interesting to still see the options and just makes me feel that much better knowing I choose the correct system and more satisfied every day.







Later RJD




And how is that DCS system workin out for ya RJ?







HA HA HA


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick: Works like a charm. Almost 3/4 of the fleet complete with QSI.







Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)




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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

This wasn't addressed yet:

For track power, it is a good idea to run feeder wires every 50-75 feet or so. The nice thing about going with something like DCC is that you don't need to do as much wiring. I have better train control running all the power wires from a central point out to their connections, like spokes from a hub. Originally, I ran jumpers, and that didn't work out great. 

Also, yes, it is very reasonable to have your railroad operate like a real railroad, with trains originating in a yard and terminating in a yard. There is a seasonal group in Ottawa that uses all battery powered engines and operates a railroad set up just like what you described. Being all battery there has the advantage that everyone brings their locomotive with battery and controller, and so there's no need to worry about which decoders, reverse loops, etc.. 


You also asked about sending signals through the air like model airplanes. From what I have heard from Aristo, that is how their new train engineer system works. Essentially, instead of the signal traveling through the rails, it travels through the air to the decoder. But the constant power is in the track, like DCC. I have used their older TE for years, and it is a simple remote control device. I supposed I could have taken it to the next level. At one time, I did have the LGB Multi Train System, which was quasi DCC. Since I had been used to using Mitsubishi PLC's, I thought this would be a perfect fit. What I found out was that after I had dropped $500 for the system, it was not very sophisticated at all, and it made trying to operate the trains a lot harder. I would have needed boosters every so often to keep the signals traveling through the rails. In the end, I think I sold it for a loss and was glad to have it gone. 



I would suggest that you do as Nick recommended. As a beginner, the best thing to do is start small, and see what really works for you. A Dash 9 or SD-70 and some cars, some track, and a regular power supply. That will be enough to get you started to see how many functions you really way. 


Good luck.

Mark


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Just to clarify Mark's point--The QSI/Airwire combo sends DCC signals over the air. It's the full set of DCC commands. I use it with DC track power. If you wanted to run it with batteries, you would have the DCC command set with battery power. 

The new Aristo system is unique. It clams to have much of the sophistication of DCC without the complexity. Initial reviews are very favorable. Speaking for myself, I'm sticking wth QSI/Airwire or goign to straight dcc, for reasons given above


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## RRwannabe (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks, Im really starting to see whats out there now. I Have a question about your Airwire lownote, Do you have then newer one the 9000 model i think with the screen on it? Does it allow you to match the seed of different locos like an sd-70 and Gp-38 so you can run 1 forward and one in reverse( As in 1 single power lash up)?

Your setup sounds like what im looking for if its capale of what I asked.I like the looks of the QSI stuff as-well and it appears by there wiring diagrams the boards are easy to wire in.

I see what yall are saying about starting with somthing simple but Like Greg says, I do have a good I dea of what i want in my head. I dought any one is going to come run with me and i want to be able to run multiple units in 1 consists and have a engine or two sitting in a yard or siding not moving while other units are moving at the same time at the same time. All of this done on track power.


I have an Old Aristo U-boat now and about 30 ft of straight track and an HO transfomer I hacked to make it run back and forth on the rails. sure it way underpowered but I can tell from just that where I want to go. it'll be months before i lay any track as I have alot of ground work to do but I want to be ready so when its in I gan go. I dont htink i could bare with the anticipation much longer.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By RRwannabe on 01/28/2009 7:23 PM
Thanks, Im really starting to see whats out there now. I Have a question about your Airwire lownote, Do you have then newer one the 9000 model i think with the screen on it? Does it allow you to match the seed of different locos like an sd-70 and Gp-38 so you can run 1 forward and one in reverse( As in 1 single power lash up)?

Your setup sounds like what im looking for if its capale of what I asked.I like the looks of the QSI stuff as-well and it appears by there wiring diagrams the boards are easy to wire in.

I see what yall are saying about starting with somthing simple but Like Greg says, I do have a good I dea of what i want in my head. I dought any one is going to come run with me and i want to be able to run multiple units in 1 consists and have a engine or two sitting in a yard or siding not moving while other units are moving at the same time at the same time. All of this done on track power.


I have an Old Aristo U-boat now and about 30 ft of straight track and an HO transfomer I hacked to make it run back and forth on the rails. sure it way underpowered but I can tell from just that where I want to go. it'll be months before i lay any track as I have alot of ground work to do but I want to be ready so when its in I gan go. I dont htink i could bare with the anticipation much longer.






Sorry I missed this and didn't reply earlier. I have the 9000 model, the one with the screen. Yes, you can do exactly what you're describing with the QSI/Airwire. You have to match the speeds of the locos, and I haven't had the time or the weather to try it yet, but it's explained in the manual. You put two locos on the track, and you set them both to the same speed step, then slow the faster one down till you get them matched. Then you can form them into a consist, and you can "flip" the consist so the lead loco and the last loco trade places. The throttle remembers the consist and saves it in memory. If the ice melts I may try it tomorrow. If you go to Airwire's website (cvp products) you can download the manual. There's a detailed explanation of consisting. The boards are not hard to wire in--USAT locos are not bad to adapt. You just have to make sure there's NO power going to the motor, only to the decoder. QSI is supposed to be releasing a plug and play version for USAT locos--I'm not sure when though. Greg might know.


We usually have 2-3 locos running at once, with the others parked on a siding. They all have remotes, so I just send one back and bring another out. It's a lot of fun. I have a Meanwell 24 vlt 10 amp power supply, and I use an aristo 10 amp throttle to keep the voltage at 21 volts and to provide circuit breaker protection. 


That Aristo system looks to be really really easy to work with. DCC is a little complicated. But having the sound is great, and the QSI sound really works well, especially the diesel sounds.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Speed matching can be done simply or a bit more involved. 

There are settings for starting speed and max speed. 

You basically set each loco to start at the same speed, (like speed step 1 or 2) and then tune the max speed so the locos go at the same speed at a high setting. 

The system interpolates between these for mid range speeds. In most cases this works fine, and you now have them matched. If you match all your locos then you can consist any loco with any other. 

There is a more involved method that allows more "Setting points", called a "custom speed table". 

I did this for 2 locos to see how close I could get them to run exactly the same. When I finished, I could leave 2 feet between them for about 2 hours. 

This is way overkill, when you consist locos, minor variations even out under load. 

It's pretty simple and effective. 

Regards, Greg


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## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Dave

The speed to prototype relationship does not hold for those running 0-27 Lionel stuff. It seems these people invariably love to run their trains at a scale 300 mph. Prototype speeds, not for that crowd!


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By markoles on 01/28/2009 8:30 AM
This wasn't addressed yet:

For track power, it is a good idea to run feeder wires every 50-75 feet or so. The nice thing about going with something like DCC is that you don't need to do as much wiring. I have better train control running all the power wires from a central point out to their connections, like spokes from a hub. Originally, I ran jumpers, and that didn't work out great. 

Also, yes, it is very reasonable to have your railroad operate like a real railroad, with trains originating in a yard and terminating in a yard. There is a seasonal group in Ottawa that uses all battery powered engines and operates a railroad set up just like what you described. Being all battery there has the advantage that everyone brings their locomotive with battery and controller, and so there's no need to worry about which decoders, reverse loops, etc.. 


You also asked about sending signals through the air like model airplanes. From what I have heard from Aristo, that is how their new train engineer system works. Essentially, instead of the signal traveling through the rails, it travels through the air to the decoder. But the constant power is in the track, like DCC. I have used their older TE for years, and it is a simple remote control device. I supposed I could have taken it to the next level. At one time, I did have the LGB Multi Train System, which was quasi DCC. Since I had been used to using Mitsubishi PLC's, I thought this would be a perfect fit. What I found out was that after I had dropped $500 for the system, it was not very sophisticated at all, and it made trying to operate the trains a lot harder. I would have needed boosters every so often to keep the signals traveling through the rails. In the end, I think I sold it for a loss and was glad to have it gone. 



I would suggest that you do as Nick recommended. As a beginner, the best thing to do is start small, and see what really works for you. A Dash 9 or SD-70 and some cars, some track, and a regular power supply. That will be enough to get you started to see how many functions you really way. 


Good luck.

Mark







Mark, stupid me but you lit a candle.... You comment re "point-to-point" railroading is very valid for those with long strips and little width... ummmm... A town at each end..... 

As my train world evolves I will take a picture of what I have to deal with re "space" and I'm sure that there will be very good comments from the group as to what to do with it... just need to get rid of the snow... 

Thanks, 


gg


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