# Complete Guide to QSI for Idiots



## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Is there such a document? I think I need one.

Ordered and received 2 Magnum decoders, a programmer, speakers and the NCE Cab. The Gwire receivers were back orderd and shipped yesterday. One was missing the speaker cable, neither had the aux light cable. Also neither had the Magic Wand for the resetting, Instructions said it was incuded. But I had a magnet. I spent an evening reading all the enclosed documents. The next morning I loaded the software for the programmer and figured out which driver was needed for Windows 7 64 bit. Connected the decoder labled as Steam and retrieved the loco information. It said it was diesel. Powered down and restarted everything. Tried again and it was still diesel. Tried the other decoder labeled diesel. It was diesel. So OK they mislabeled the package. I have a programmer so I just need to load a steam package. Easy. Loaded a steam package and it showed incompatibilites. Ok. Not sure what it was incompatible with so I decided to do the load again. Watched the loading window for about 5 minutes and then it happened. Said it couldn't read the info. Tried to retrieve the loco info. Said it couldn't read the manufacturer ID. Looks like I now have a basic rutabago. Totally dead unit?

The decoders were both factory sealed and I doubt the vendor opened one and put in a wrong unit. Looked like the original tape. I am very aware of ESD (static electricity) and followed proper handline procedures. The first time it completed the load fne. Just a couple of in compatibiliites. No error messages. Never was able to hear sound from the loco speaker.

My experiemc with DCC is limited. Set up an Aristo Fa Fb Fa with a Sierra sound card and consisted them with a Digitrax about a year ago. (a real learning experience) Worked fine. But I WILL learn DCC and all it's intricacies eventually. Right now I just want to get an engine running and hear sound. Then I can worry about tweajing things.

Should I be able to hear sound from the unit with just the programmer? Is it time I called QSI? Can I somehow load sound into this decoder? 

At no time was I having any computer problems. Windows was working great. System is Win 7 Pro, ASUS motherboard, 6GB ram and lots of disk. 

HELP! PLEASE some guidance for an apparent idiot is desperately needed. Where do I go now?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

You can't use the programmer while the G Wire card is active--disconnect the Gwire card and try it that way.I had EXACTLY the same problem because I did not notice that you were supposed to disable the G wire card

I agree, the documentation is not good.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Also you can call QSI--they have been very good When I called them


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Talk to or get ahold of Greg E. He is on here all the time!! He can help you with anything you might run into with QSI/G-wire. There are some things he can help you with or get you to where you need to be that aren't in the directions always!! Greg is always willing to help someone in this hobby, and is very knowledgeable about that system. When I received my programmer he helped me to get the most current info, and will walk you through it. Regal 

[email protected] or contact him through here think he has his link on all of his posts!!


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

I don't have a the G wire yet. They are in the mail expect them early next week.

Only have 2 Magnums the NCE cab, and the programmer. 

Before I go to QSI is there anything I can try?

I find the documentation very confusing, probably due to my lack of DCC knowledge. They also have many references to various levels and no indication of which level/model I have.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aw shucks Jerry!

Try this link to my site:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...inmenu-239*

Notice the menu on the left side of the screen, there are 3 more menu items "below" the above page.

See if that gives you a start.

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Naw Greg I think he needs yer One On One help he may be as proficient as me!! Yikes Hah LOL Regal


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

I had allready looked at the info on your site. Googled for QSI manufacturer default and found a procedure on Tony's Trains. Hooked it up to a 18 V DC supply and placed a magnet of the reed switch. Powered up and nothing happened. ( I have no other DCC gear at all. Eventually I will, as it appears to be the best path to take.)

So is it possible to 'force' the thing to take a load?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK... 

1. There is no aux light cable. 
2. There is no magic wand, you have to provide your own magnet
3. Sounds like you did not receive a QSI with the sound file you wanted.
4. The incompatabilities are basically a warning when you change from Steam to Diesel or any other radically different setup... the error message actually says this.
5. Try programming again, do not put loco on rollers, very clean rails, turn off lights and smoke on the loco. Please supply what loco you are using.
6. If you have it "Fail" at 99%, normally it is fine... it tries to read the id information at the end of the programming sequence.
7. They are pretty ESD resistant.
8. No sound happens during programming on the "program track" using the programmer.
9. No sound when on DC means dead, or needs a reset (it's easy to mute the sound when pushing buttons)... redownload the software.

Regards, Greg 

Posted By alfischer on 11 Mar 2010 08:05 AM 
Is there such a document? I think I need one.

Ordered and received 2 Magnum decoders, a programmer, speakers and the NCE Cab. The Gwire receivers were back orderd and shipped yesterday. One was missing the speaker cable, neither had the aux light cable. Also neither had the Magic Wand for the resetting, Instructions said it was incuded. But I had a magnet. I spent an evening reading all the enclosed documents. The next morning I loaded the software for the programmer and figured out which driver was needed for Windows 7 64 bit. Connected the decoder labled as Steam and retrieved the loco information. It said it was diesel. Powered down and restarted everything. Tried again and it was still diesel. Tried the other decoder labeled diesel. It was diesel. So OK they mislabeled the package. I have a programmer so I just need to load a steam package. Easy. Loaded a steam package and it showed incompatibilites. Ok. Not sure what it was incompatible with so I decided to do the load again. Watched the loading window for about 5 minutes and then it happened. Said it couldn't read the info. Tried to retrieve the loco info. Said it couldn't read the manufacturer ID. Looks like I now have a basic rutabago. Totally dead unit?

The decoders were both factory sealed and I doubt the vendor opened one and put in a wrong unit. Looked like the original tape. I am very aware of ESD (static electricity) and followed proper handline procedures. The first time it completed the load fne. Just a couple of in compatibiliites. No error messages. Never was able to hear sound from the loco speaker.

My experiemc with DCC is limited. Set up an Aristo Fa Fb Fa with a Sierra sound card and consisted them with a Digitrax about a year ago. (a real learning experience) Worked fine. But I WILL learn DCC and all it's intricacies eventually. Right now I just want to get an engine running and hear sound. Then I can worry about tweajing things.

Should I be able to hear sound from the unit with just the programmer? Is it time I called QSI? Can I somehow load sound into this decoder? 

At no time was I having any computer problems. Windows was working great. System is Win 7 Pro, ASUS motherboard, 6GB ram and lots of disk. 

HELP! PLEASE some guidance for an apparent idiot is desperately needed. Where do I go now?


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

*HEY blueregal* I am probably MUCH lress proficient! Actually I qualify as the Complete Idiot right now! It looks to me that this decoder is TOAST. I am very frustrated, as I think I did follow the procedures for loading a sound file and during the load it failed.

Now there appears to be no user solution. I obviously need *HELP.*


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Did you disable the G Wire card?


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Greg, I did try to reset. No programming track, It's wired directly to the programmer. Tried to reprogram and always got the 'Can't read manufacturers ID' msg. The reset while connected to 18VDC gave no sound from the speaker.


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Did you disable the G Wire card?Did you disable the G Wire card? 

No G wire even attached. They are back ordered and shipped yesterday. Expect early next week.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's a good hint I had NO clue about. I had my transformer hooked to the track i was using for the program track!! Couldn't get programmer to do anything it failed also. Did NOT realize you can't have even the wires from the transformer hooked up to the track you are using for programming even if off no power! You have to disconnect even your track wires, Greg advised there is such a thing as I don't remember what he called it, but I'll just call it ghost power or sumtin creating havoc with the programmer. You aren't trying to program like that are you???? Also lownote is right disconnect the g-wire whenever trying to program. Greg will get ya going i'm sure, he's a whiz on everything electrical like my other buddy "snif" Noel Wilson out in California. Regal


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Here's a good hint I had NO clue about. I had my transformer hooked to the track i was using for the program track!! Couldn't get programmer to do anything it failed also. Did NOT realize you can't have even the wires from the transformer hooked up to the track you are using for programming even if off no power! You have to disconnect even your track wires, Greg advised there is such a thing as I don't remember what he called it, but I'll just call it ghost power or sumtin creating havoc with the programmer. You aren't trying to program like that are you???? Also lownote is right disconnect the g-wire whenever trying to program. Greg will get ya going i'm sure, he's a whiz on everything electrical like my other buddy "snif" Noel Wilson out in California. Regal


No, I only had either the programmer or the 18VDC hooked up. Never at the same time.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

You need to get with Greg E. somehow someway, and he can disseminate what your problem is. Greg is the guy who posted the link to his site!! Try to get with him. Calling Greg E. come in good buddy! Help this poor guy before he lets the smoke out, or burns up or destroys stuff like I do, well almost destroy, everything i've messed up so far has either been repairable, and fixable so far!! Hah LOL


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

I just tried the other decoder. Hooked up to the programmer, it read the decoder fine. Hooked up to the 18VDC supply, with the magnet on the reed switch it said 'Reset'. SO the programmer is OK and I was doing it right. I did not try changing the file - yet. 

One other thing, there was no power glitch or any other abnormalities computer wise when trying the sound load.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, your first one is toast, does not happen often bad out of box, but in this case, you got part way through programming. 

You can try programming it again, ignore warning messages, but sounds like now it won't program. 

Need another one, sorry. 

Sounds like you are doing everything right. 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Well, I have tried programming it multiple times and always get the sam msg. Can' read the ID. I guess I need to call QSI._ I _just hope the programmer is not at fault. It appears to work on the second decoder.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's not the programmer... it's fine... this happens sometimes... I've probably gotten two units I could not program in all the ones I have. 

You are trying just programming, right? Skip the confidence test, just go right to programming. 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Just got off the phone with QSI. Bad news is the decoder is bad. Good news is they answered the phone on the first ring, put me over to tech support, about a 2 minute conversation, and then to Susan for an RMA number. Very impressive service. Looks like I made the right choice going with QSI. Susan said they would ship as quickly as possible. I am not used to good service from most places. This was impressive. 

One thing I find a bit strange is he said it MUST be hooked up to a load to program. I didn't have a motor attached but the second unit can at least read the ID with no load. The bad one cannot. 

Well, down to UPS this afternoon.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep very sad feeling when you have a new decoder and it fails. Been there done that on several QSI boards but the folks are very good at helping you out and replacing. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have gotten flaky results when I accidentally switched the motors off. 

Some locos have lots of lights hooked to the rails and they can overload the programmer, the RS-3 comes to mind. 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Now that I undersand the decoders need a motor load I have soldered leads to a small 12V 1A bulb. I doubt the inrush current is any worse than a 1-2A motor. Will order some 18-24 V .5A or so this weekend from Mouser along with connectors and a few other items for another oroject. 

I was thinking about using a Cat 5 connector for the leads from the loco to the tender. 2 for track, 2 for motor, 2 for headlight, and 2 for speaker if I can't get it in the tender. Should handle 1.5A easily. This loco only draws about .6A and runs quite well with 12VDC (actually too fast) Picked up some 3800MAH NIMH cells so should run about 5-6 Hrs on a charge. Then on to the CV's...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

RJ45 connectors are not made for vibration or flexing... the construction would encourage dirt to work into the connector, and the current rating is too low. Even if you measure .6 amp, there will be some nice 1-2 amp spikes. I would look for something better. 

Go to allelectronics.com and find some nice connectors, get the speaker in the tender and use a 6 pin connector. 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

OK. Just not sure I can stuff a speaker in the tender along with 12V of Fat A cells, decoder, and receiver. The Dutchess is kind of small. What I would actually like to do is get the coal load off and replace it with a porous load. Speaker embedded. It would fit nicely under the roof of the cab and not be seen. I never thought off Allelectronics. Visited them once and was not impressed. They do have several 6 and 8 pin cables and priced right. Probably better than Cat 5. (the Cat 5 is supposedly rated @ 1.5A) I guess the dirt would be a problem.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yep, the wedge shape of the rj45 connector (cat 5 refers to a specific type of wire) and the angled connector wires in the jack, and the recessed contacts in the plug all lend themselves to being affected by dirt. The are also not rated for UV.. 

On the multipin connectors, squirt the holes full of moly or teflon grease, and the connector will connect and open more easily. 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Ever seen an acoustically porous coal load? The tender load is solid plastic and holes would look bad on the top. I *MAY* be able to put the speaker on the base of the tender. Tight fit.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've drilled small holes on plastic molded coal loads, in the "crevices".... actually worked very well. 

Or take a screen, mold to a mound, lightly glue aquarium charcoal to it, very acoustically transparent, and looks very realistic. 

Lots of ways to skin a cat. 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

How small were the holes and could they be easily seen?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I used about 1/16", and they were not real apparent. Many fake coal loads are painted shiny, putting a matte coat on top really hid the holes. 

Worked for me. 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Managed to get the coal load off and looks like if I mill out an area for the speaker, drill some holes, and open an area beneath the speaker that all will fit. Definitely neater than in the loco. This will also make for a better baffle. Probable a layer of the charcoal would make it better. Gonna try it! (coal load was on with double sided tape) Thanks for the idea.


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

OK, I have made SOME progress. The receivers arrived. Connected one and managed to get some results. I was able to controll it at a distance where I was unable to see the train well. Got to the edge of my property (about 200 ft).

Testing is being done with a 10 cell pack of NIMH cells. Voltage about 13.4VDC. Load connected to motor was a 12V auto dome light which draws about 1/2A @ 12V

After about 1/2 hr of playing it quit.

Couldn't read the loco info with the programmer. Disconnected the receiver and did a reset. It spoke 'Reset' as expected. Then I was able to read it from the programmer. I could also read and change CV's.

Connected the battery and each time it does a single 'steam hiss'. Could not get the motor to run. 
However, about 3 seconds from the time I turned on the transmitter, I could hear a single click from the speaker.

Tried another receiver. Same results.

Put a scope on the output from the receiver. (Tektronix 475, algbraic add and invert channel 2) There was the expected bipolar signal from the receiver whenever the transmitter was on. I could see a change when a button was pushed. The receiver had 5.1VDC on the power input. The transmitter batterey reads 5.6VDC. Using an Extec 830 meter.

With the decoder connected to the battery it is drawing about 40MA. Pushing a button on the transmitter does not change the draw.

I then tried it with a lamp that drew 1A @ 12v. Same. Then an adjustable, regulated supply 18V. Same. Supply is a 24V transformer, bridge rectifier, filter cap and LM317.

Am I failing to do something? Yes, each time I was doing a 'Select Loco' 'Address 3' and the display said 'LOC 003' and changing the speed gave the expected speed indication.

Is this the unlikely failure of the second decoder? 

What's next?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Al, now you may want to read the manual. First, the answers you need right now are in the little manual that came with the unit. The BIG manual that you download from the QSI site, which appears to be for the HO unit should be downloaded too. 

Actually you don't want to read the whole thing, but the beginning where it explains stuff. 

The first hiss is usually that the decoder has gotten power. Both manuals states you press F6 twice to start the loco. 

I'm not going to tell you what F9 does, but you need to read some of the manuals, otherwise you will be stuck at this very basic stuff. 

You need to know F6 and F9, trust me. 

I think I better add this tip to my site.... 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

YES! That got it going. I download quantumdccrefmanual_4_5_0.pdf and will print, bind, and READ. You are 100% correct that I have to READ and UNDERSTAND this thing, and I will do it. It's not exactly apparent where a new user needs to go to get started. 
I think I probable need to pick up a good DCC book. I understand the coceps of DCC and have no problem with electronics but operating the unit is really what I need to understand at this point. 

QSI needs to provide some guidance with their units for folks like me, or spmething on their website to point in the right direction, like a step by step of what to download and read. 

I am beginning to think the decoder that is on it's way to QSI may actually be good. 

One other question before I load a ream of paper in the printer, what is the red led for on the programmer? 

I really appreciate you help. I DO intend to beat this into submission!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I do think the first one was bad, but that F6 startup "bites" many a newcomer.

The next most common thing is hitting the F9 to put the loco in "disconnect"... when you do that, the throttle will increase the sound, but the loco does not move, the motor is "disconnecteed"... many people accidentally hit the F9 without realizing this. 


The red light blinks during programming, and I believe it blinks really fast if there is a problem.

Remember that when in a loco, turn off the lights in the loco, my E8s would not program until I turned off the light switch.

Ask as many questions as you want Al, keeping it on a forum should help others.

Regards, Greg


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## tmmhead (Feb 22, 2008)

All, 

This forum posting is just what I need and so who's going to create the Complete Guide for QSI Idiots. I am sure that I could have a chapter of my own blunders. Sat down last night and started to play with the programmer. Got the software loaded for the sound and CV manager, went to plug to the track and the power supply for the USB/track programmer was dead, another call to the supplier, searched all the adapters in the house and finally found a 12 v that would work, back in business and up and running. 

Then went in and I think I changed the CV's to those recommenced by QSI for Aristo engines to prevent the abnormal behavior at slow speeds. Seems to run very well on the program track and through the operations mode, however when I went to take it back to run on regular DC out in the yard it would move. Lights on no sound or movement. Anybody got any ideas on this one. 

Also while I am asking is there a way to change the voltage start up if you see one motor block start moving before the other on a U-25. Seems it take a little higher voltage for one then the other and if I could set to not start moving until the higher voltage then start ups would be much smoother. 

Thanks, 

Tim Headings


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Called speed matching so back to the manual and read. BTW you could start the manual for the QSI for dummies







no offense just a fun thing to do or think about. Latr RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tim, the answer to your first question is in the post just before yours. You MUST hit F6 twice to start the loco. 

One thing that newcomers often forget to do is to give lots of details, what software version did you load, what locomotive, etc. 

And to change the start speed, you change one of the most fundamental CV's that there is, CV2... the only other CV "Before" that one is CV1, the address of the loco. 

I know these CV's are detailed everywhere. I'm almost positive that it's in the manual you got, but you would do well to read a DCC primer or something before you just want to run. 

I know everyone is excited to "get started", but there's a few fundamental things you should understand first. If you don't learn a bit at first, then you will always think DCC is black magic rather than seeing the fundamentals. 

By the way, the parameters for slow running that are on the QSI site are not quite correct, use the ones I have on mine. 

Try the link I shared before, and read the information on them. That's my QSI FAQ and tip list. 

Regards, Greg


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## alfischer (Mar 8, 2010)

Create a manual for Idiots? The 'For Dummies' series of books is very successful. First it is readable second it covers basics along with hints. I have purchased several that, while limited, got me started.

I am considering creating such a manual for QSI G scale DCC. Could be done in HTML or PDF. I have over the years written several such as what I needed. Also instructions for various orojects. What I do is put it on paper and then hand it to my wife and ask her if SHE can do it. If she says yes, she then tries it. Many times her suggestions are what is needed. She has a fairly technical mind so that helps. Face it, we all start in everything with a learning curve.

One of the problems I ran into was the QSI website. Lots of information and good information. I mean LOTS of info - hard to pick where to start. That was where this forum has been extremely helpful. Another of the problems I have is where I live. Very limited availability of info and almost no places that carry much. Fresno area is great if you want to build a house or fix a tractor, but little available if you want to fix a TV, let alone hook up an engine to a tender. Also the prices are out of line with reality. Example, I was ready to buy my first train (LGB starter set) and the hobby shop wanted full list price PLUS SHIPPING. Go figure where I bought it! Try http://www..***.com/ ! Track was another problem, after all it wasn't HO.

I hope to have my first install done and running this weekend. Connectors and switches should arrive from Mouser this Thursday. Also ordered a Linx receiver chip. When I try building a receiver I will post my experience. Not sure it is worth the effort to build one, but I'm gonna give it a try.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've started a DCC FAQ page on my site, even though I have state I will not put in a DCC tutorial, since there are already so many excellent sites for that.

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...9/dcc-faqs* 


I have a QSI tips page too, under the DCC section, by manufacturer...

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...inmenu-239* 


I'm adding some of the stuff from this thread.

Regards, Greg


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## tmmhead (Feb 22, 2008)

Greg, 

Thanks for the pointers and I'll take a look at your sight. I am sure that the CV concept is not any harder then programming in C or Fortran I just need to slow down and read the book. 

Tim


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I forgot to mention, I have links to several very good "DCC for beginners" sites at the very end of this page:

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...ainmenu-29*

Regards, Greg


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