# New building kit...shake shingles???



## Ragg (Aug 17, 2008)

I'm considering producing our Kimball's store in 1:20.3, but would like to first learn if there is much support for the kit. If you're unfamiliar with our company (Ragg's...To Riches?), please stop by our website. (www.raggstoriches.biz) We do nothing but structure kits of prototype buildings, and many of our custmers have told us they are of museum quality. We work to put out a 1st class kit that's as true to the prototype as possible...and practical. 


I am aware of the different "weather" challenges that must be addressed for the outdoor modeler. The first area I could use some advice is shake roofing. Cast roofing is not a consideration (we're a laser-kit company!) Peel-and-stick strips of laser-cut shake shingles is more likely to be the solution, but I'd like some input as to what material is most suitable. Naturally, cedar comes to mind, but because of the direction of the grain, the strips of cedar shingles would likely be short, pretty much defeating the approach. 1/32 plywood is certainly a much better option for strip length...but how weather resistant is it? 


Winter is coming and I'll be sure to have something built up for testing, but I'd like to turn something out sooner than that. 

I'd appreciate your help..and hearing about your experiences! 

Ragg


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Many of us in the Sacramento Valley Garden RR Club use redwood (ex-fence boards) and split them off just like in real life. We make them about .5 inch wide and maybe .75 inch long. I make mine smaller because I model 1:32, but they're probably still a little oversize. In 1:20.3, that size would be approximately correct, after all, how big ARE shingles., anyway? 

I'd bet that one fence board would give you shingles for over a dozen buildings. You might even be able to mechanize the project with some thought. We use a mallet and a kitchen (make that an ex-kitchen) knife, a meat cleave, or even a chisel.


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Make that "meat cleaver" not "meat cleave".


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Ragg 
Have you seen the shake shingles on the Finished Depot site on page 2 
Dennis


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## Guest (Aug 30, 2008)

"F-scale: I made a posting to both the 1:20.3 Yahoo Group and the MyLargeScale.com forum, basically requesting what interest modelers would have in an F-scale Kimball's. I received zero responses. Nothing. I'll give it a bit longer, but I don't expect to be producing an F-scale kit in the near future." 

With negative said, not sure about it? Oh yeah I could tell you abunch about what I have, plans, drawings, etc... 
Toad


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## Ragg (Aug 17, 2008)

I'd like to thank the few of you that took the time to reply to my posting. I followed your suggestions and looked at the shingles that are out there. The ones that appear most prototypic are those by Kappler. I can't see, however, applying shingles one at a time as a very good use of time. It's a nice way to go if that's what you enjoy, if you don't have a lot of buildings to build, and, if you plan on living to be 100 years old or more. I did the math and even a small building like the Kimball Store would require nearly 3,000 shingles...and it's a small building. I wonder how many would be required for something like an Ouray Depot? 

I took the overall lack of response (as compared to castles, tin buildings, and such) to indicate that F modelers aren't much interested in modeling prototype buildings and aren't critical about scale. The structures that are currently available were very disappointing, especially considering the benefits of working in such a large scale. (Shingles that scale out to 3- or 4-inches thick may be cute, and jagged rows of roofing may be what modelers like to see...but personally, I strive for realism...not Disney Land.) 

What I was hoping for is a dozen or more responses telling me that, yes, F modelers are ready for realistic structures of prototype buildings. Of the two groups I put the question to, no one came back such a response. The silence spoke volumes. As such, I've pretty much abandonded the idea of producing a realistic structure kit for the F-modelers...at least for the time being.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

Posted By Ragg on 08/31/2008 8:48 AM 
(Shingles that scale out to 3- or 4-inches thick may be cute, and jagged rows of roofing may be what modelers like to see...but personally, I strive for realism...not Disney Land.) 


Disney Land has been made.....and there is G gauge running there. 
Not to fair to attack our structures as that and it shows what sort of biz your runing to me. Others might think other wise. 
Toad


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I rarely visit this forum, so I didn't see this before. Being in business in another hobby sector I will give you a couple bits of free advice (and worth about what you paid) 

First, there ARE people out there who appreciate quality, and are willing to pay a premium to get it (I have yet to meet one in person, but I hear they exist)...are there enough out there to keep you in the black? Um... 

Second, The people reading these forums are a rather smallish portion of the hobby, and many already HAVE their layouts built, and aren't really looking for another building -or- on THIS sub-forum, at least, tend to scratchbuild their own. You'd really have to run an ad in Garden Railways and/or go to several of the larger LS shows to get a better sampling of actual interest. 

Third, Sadly, I think the proportion of people in the hobby who actually BUILD things (beyond shake the box kits) is dwindling. A lot of them are weekend warriors who don't have time or talent for much beyond plug n' play. 

Fourth, and this might sound counter to #3, but except for a few famous structures (most located along the Rio Grande NG in Colorado and NM) in 1:20.3 you're actually probably better off with something sort of "typical" (ie generic) that can be (reasonably) easily modified into whatever the builder desires for use on THEIR layout. 

Shake roofs? I started putting the roof on a large dollhouse for my (now ex-)wife with individual shakes about 7 years ago. I worked at it off and on for 2 years (put down a row and go do something else while the glue dried)...it's still only about half done, and I'm NOT gonna finish it..


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Ragg, 

Hmmm, that's an interesting opinion you have there. 
I think MIK gave you some good advice about a sample market. You might also want to check with Randy at Downtown Deco about his venture into F scale. 

You state that your "aware of the different weather challanges that must be addressed for the outdoor modler". I'm sorry, but based on your statements,I don't think you really are. 

How many people do you know that would pay, what? $200.00 for a "museum quality kit" of your small store, spend hours building it and set it outside for the sun, rain, wind, animals and birds to destroy? Not many. 

Just because someone builds in F scale outdoors doesn't mean they don't appreciate or can't do fine scale detail modeling work. Lots of folks in this venue have 
moved beyond the high dollar museum quality collector kits and enjoy discovering for themselves what will survive in scale size in the real world. 

Fine scale laser cut wood shakes will not survive in real nature and it's way to much cost and work to replace the roof every year. 

Thta's just my opinion. 
Rick Marty


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I disagree with your premise. I know a lot of F scale modelers that not only like prototypical models but they are also critical about scale. 

Not all, of course. 

Outdoors is a lot different than small scale indoors. Even though I have a good size back yard, I'm finding that I don't have nearly as many buildings as I did on my small HO layout. I like to operate, so I am focusing more on buildings that are related to the railroad, not my town. (Although my wife did tell me I need to build up the town some more.)  

My buildings stay outside all year, so durability is a key for me. I have not been happy with any of the plywood I have used in my earlier buildings. It warps and de-laminates. 

Individual shingles are not a problem. Yes, it does take some time, but not THAT long. I drew some lines on the roof, laid down a strip of silicone glue and then placed the shingles; actually, it goes fairly quick. To me, the look is just right. I didn't count how many I used; 3000 seems high. 








The key to me is that these shingles have lasted. Yes, a few have come off due to squirrels and falling acorns, but they have weathered beautifully. 

When you leave your structures outside, you cannot hope to have the details I used to place in my HO buildings. I typically clean my buildings with a stream of water from the hose. 

Now, for indoors F-scale, there may be a market for such a detailed kit, but I feel like a lot of those modelers are scratch builders anyway. 

You do have a very nice selection of kits, but I'm not sure that there's a giant demand for such nice kits outdoors. You may have to get ...to Riches? via another path.


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

I am with Bruce on many of the points he made. 

I like to have prototypical structures and I do want them to scale. Having said that, the weather takes a heavy toll on the structural elements and the squirrela and other critters are hard on small details. Even though the railroad takes up about 1 acre of my property (I live rurally so am not too constrained for space) I still barely have room for railroad only structures - absolutely I will not put in place any buildings not related to the operations of the railroad. 

On the subject of roofs, I have never used cedar shakes though I think they will work. I do not believe plywood will do the job. The greatest sucesses I have had have been in making the roof to simulate steel or copper - both roofs very common in the real world here in the Ottawa Valley. The objective is to make the roof watertight and remember, here it will sit buried in snow for almost 6 months of the year. Plywood will delaminate ... 

There is a market for a quality kit BUT the market is small and the building must be carefully chosen ... it must be railroad related ... it maust have architectural character ... it must not have too much gingerbread ... it must be robust (weatherproof and critterproof). 

Regards ... Doug


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

One of my club members just gave a demo on cutting and using cedar shake shingles. He has tried different products for the sheathing under the shigle and he feels the best is the corrugated plastic, like the yard signs are made out of, it is impervious to the weather, doesn't decompose or warp and last the life of the building.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Cedar shingles on thin steel roof substructure works very well, i cut shakes 3.5" wide and 1/16 thick,and 12" long sheets. Laser out stips 3.25 wide and 3/4" tall, these are quick at glueing down. On my depot it took 4 hours to do complte roof, and I leave outside all the time. 
Dennis


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## Guest (Sep 20, 2008)

Hi All, I'm new to posting to myLargescale and hope this posting will help you see a product that will I hope to have ready by the mid to end of Oct. 
I have noticed there seems to be a lot of interest in cedar shingle and the fact that it takes time to lay them and they need to be sealed to protect them. Well after building all the water towers for Bill Davis at Three Foot Classic Models and building for me to sell, all of which had cedar shingles I think after building 29 water tower I'm somewhat of an expert on this subject. 
I can tell you I have been looking for a faster way to roof my water towers and I have found it. I have worked with casting resins for the last 2 years in my round houses that I make that decided to try to make a cedar shingle roof in resin. I have perfected this and I have one picture to show you a cedar shingle roof and one that is resin cast. 
I now offer my water towers with this roof but still will offer the cedar roof too. The real reason I posting this to inform all that by the first of Oct I will be offering resin cast cedar shingle roofing sheets for sale. I don't have the exact price yet but if you are looking for great looking cedar shingle roof without all the work and worry about the weather then this will be the product you will need. I age each row to look old So please look at the picture to see this. 
At this time I'm looking to have the sheet size of 20" x 12" I will post more about this once I get the parts comming out of the mold. 
If you have any questions or comments please ask, Thanks for you time Joe


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Wow, I would like to see not only the Kimball's building, but many of your others in 1:20.3 You have some very nice looking kits.


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## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

Did someone mention Cedar Shingles? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 









My friends Dottye and Dart had their layout open today for an NMRA Meet. I took this photo just for you guys. NO WAY a resin sheet would work in this case! 
Russ


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Wow now that is a building I would like to see more of this building 
Dennis


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

I love the looks of it, Joe! Looking forward anxiously to hear the price.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif


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## kdtsolutions (Jan 20, 2008)

Your models are beautiful. I wish they were available in F scale; however I live in Florida. I am trying to use as little wood as possible due to moisture and sun. I would be hesitant to buy anything that would be destroyed by weather. I would love to be able to buy F scale drawings for several of your structures. Maybe you want to offer some large scale drawings to the F scale market? Brewer railroad plans does this and I have bought several of his plans. The individual builder could use the materials they are comfortable with that work best in their climate. I don't know if this is feasible/profitable or not. I know I would buy several of your drawings. If you are ever interested in doing this please let me know.

Thanks and good luck. If I ever go to O scale and move indoors you will hear from me!

Mark


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Curious to the thickness of the sheets. I had a resin kit that came with a 1/8" cast roof, and within 5 days of it being outside, it had warped so badly it was unusable. I'd definitely be interested in such a product if it was demonstrated to not warp when painted and exposed to the sun. 

Later, 

K


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2008)

Hi K, 

Thanks for the question about the resin cast roof. The roof pictured was cast to about 5/32" and sanded to 1/4". Then it is glued to a 1/4" substrate I run glue all the way around the edges and through the middle. I know about warping so I try to keep the casting as thick as I can, and I used glues that I know will work. The key is to make sure that you use a good solid flat substrate before you glue the resin roof down. Once the glue dries you have a solid roof and no worries of the roof failing. 

I hope I have answered your question, Joe


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