# PIKO manual switch NOT slip switch



## pagosarr (Jan 5, 2008)

Last summer on a vacation trip to Colorado I bought some PIKO manual switches at Caboose Hobbies. Imagine may dismay today when I discovered the PIKO switches are not like LGB switches in that they will NOT function as slip switches. Is there any resolution to this defect?

Roger Bush


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would not consider that a defect, just the way they chose to make them.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Do you mean a "spring" switch? A switch that will change point position if a train comes through from the "wrong" side?

A "slip" switch is a crossing with diverging rails and movable points on one or both sides, most often used in terminal and yard throats where space is at a premium and speeds are low.

The behavior of the movable points is usually a function of the throw mechanism. In theory, if you replace the Piko manual throw with an LGB one, the switch will work as you planned.

I agree with Dan above.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you mean switch mechanism that returns the track to its original position after the train passes, this is what I use, courtesy of Dr. Rivet.

It is very simple, inexpensive and works. All you need is a piece of brass rod and a couple of spikes.





















depending upon your engines and cars, you might have to experiment a little with the diameter of the rod and the separation of the spikes. Some engines will derail going through the switch (the Pilot truck). It all depends upon the weight and spring on the truck. These engines also derail going through the LGB manual switches in the closed position.

In order to secure the brass rod in the switch, I bend the tip of the ends going down 90 degrees, one one to the left and one to the right. This locks them into the tie and slide.

John, aka Totalwrecker, has a different home made version. I'm not sure if it springs back or not, but it is an elegant solution to the manual switch problem.

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Somebody mention my name?
http://forums.mylargescale.com/16-t...ing-semi-automatic-manual-switch-machine.html


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, I thought we went through the brass vs. spring steel. The pictures above look like you need to move the wire to set the "resting position" of the switch.

The method used by John, and 10 years ago by Tom Ruby don't need manual intervention to accommodate different paths, but I think they will "flip" the position of the switch on a train running through it "the wrong way".

Several ways to skin a cat here depending on your requirements.

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes Greg, I have to move the wire from one spike to the other to throw the switch. I don't think that it makes much difference if it is brass or stainless steel for the rod. Other than turning black, I don't see any corrosion of the brass.

You could probably get by with a smaller diameter rod if you are using spring steel. 

I think spring steel might be better for John's setup.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, actually, unless I misinterpret, the 2 methods have different results.

John's does not NEED any manual intervention to work, but the switch can be "thrown" to the opposite position after a train runs through it the "wrong" way.

Your method retains the "position" of the switch, even after a train runs through it the "wrong" way.

A subtle difference, but I can see applications for each method.

Regards, Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you have it. John's is more like the electric switch motor on LGB switches, no matter what throws it, it stays, until it gets thrown by a passing train, manually (John's), or electrically (LGB). 

What I use is more like the LGB manual switch throw. Spring loaded return unless it is manually thrown.

We (Dr. Rivet and I) have a loop at our Christmas show here in northern Virginia with two trains running in opposite directions, not at the same time. It is a single loop with a passing siding. We use LGB manual switch throws on the switches at each end. One is set for the outside siding and the one on the other end is set for the inside siding. With insulating gaps and diodes on the sidings we can change the polarity on the track and stop one train on its siding and start the other, in the opposite direction. The switches control which siding the train go into. We usually are running a Thomas and Percy on that loop. We don't have any problem with those engines (no pilot truck) going through the closed spring switch. We did have problems with James' leading pilot truck derailing at the spring switch. I think we could solve that by adding weight or a stronger spring to the truck mount.

We did have to add weight to the cars so they didn't derail at the spring switch.










Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Let me clarify; The placement of the holes decides whether it flops over or is a slip through type.
The motor is the compression as the spring would describe an arc, but the throw bar is linear, thus the spring compresses as it moves to 'center'. Center of 'throw center' is the idea, but as long as the holes are parallel to the center line at mid throw, it will flop over. Holes non aligned, say middle of throw bar, but off to one side, equal to the throw or so, on the ties and it is a slippery thing. If it doesn't begin to decompress during the throw, it won't power the throw over, just back to where it started when the throw stops.
One idea fits all... too simple. Are we mud yet?
John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Brass wire eventually looses it's spring, spring steel remains constant. That's my preference. And color....
John


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## pagosarr (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments and suggestions. I tried Chuck's method. Used 0.040 spring steel rather than brass rod and works great!

Roger Bush


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad to have helped. In my opinion, that is what this site is all about.

Thanks for completing the post. Too many times we get no feedback from the original poster.

Chuck

John, I think that the tight curve in your wire requires spring steel. Brass flexes, but only over a long reach. Thanks for the clarification that your system does it both ways, depending on where the pin is located.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Being non ferrous, brass is subject to being 'work hardened' and can eventually crack.

The bend has nothing to do with the action, the ends flex first, all the bend does is direct the way the ends bend. But who cares....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I care, and thanks for the edification John. I was not aware that non ferrous metals as a group work harden... of course NOW that I think about it, copper, brass, aluminum, etc will work harden, but I have seen steel do this too.

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Spring steel is formulated to prevent that phenomenon, soft coat hangar wire was easy to bend back n forth and break.
I was a silversmith and did fabrication. if I didn't anneal as I worked it, tiny cracks would be revealed in the polish stage and the value would be compromised, my time lost.
Phosphor Bronze is another good spring metal, another alloy....
Happy Rails
John


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