# Lionel 4-4-2 & Aristo Heavy Weights



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Not having either but wanting both, does anyone have this combination? How does it look? Is the scale size look close?

Photos would be great.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I use one as the 'pilot' for my Aristo pacific and heavyweights. Looks great. I have one or two pics online, let's see if I can find them.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Two more from the same day at the RGSEast
:


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

And one last photo - where they currently reside on the shelf over my desk. The RGSEast photos are dated 2005 !











There are several more shots from the 2005 set in my files. I also recall a bunch of threads on the Atlantic - try googling "site:mylargescale.com lionel atlantic". 

And, as it is sitting over my head as I type this, I can move the Pacific and take a photo of just the Atlantic and the heavyweights, if you want.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Great pics Pete. 

The 4-4-2 will look great pulling two or three heavy wts.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

It may not pull two or three heavyweights. Heavyweights do not present an easy load and IIRC, when George Schreyer tested pulling power, the Atlantic came out near the bottom. Also they have several problems, most of which George has addressed at the link.

Lionel Atlantic


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Todd 

I knew there was some issues to be taken care of.


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

Randy, It is based on a PRR Atlantic. 
LAO


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

most of which George has addressed 
I was thinking that George had a write-up on these engines. There are also several threads (see my google suggestion above) including a recent one about 'improving' these locos and swapping the plastic wheels for metal.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

It is based on a PRR Atlantic 
Yep, that red roof on my model is a dead giveaway. I think my paint is actually a very dark green. 

There is a retailer who bought all the remaining stock from Lionel. He used to come to ECLSTS and try to sell them for $450 - it's mentioned in one of the older threads I found when googling, but the link doesn't work so maybe they died in the recession. (I recall putting a fellow MLS-er on the phone with him one year, in an attempt to negotiate a better price!)


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy I'm also in the same boat, I want to use HWs to make a "Fast Mail" train for my Atlantic. I want to use 1 baggage, 1 RPO and maybe 1 combine for use at layouts like the Fairplex. Reading about the pulling problem I'm also beginning to think what else could I make, maybe refer cars for a "Milk Train". No hurry right now, plenty of other things to work on. 

Pete do you think using BB wheels on the HWs would improve their pulling capacity? 

I also remember someone saying that switching the trucks from the 3 axle HW units to 2 axle passenger car units also helped tremendously with reducing drag. I also recall someone who simply removed the center wheel from the HW trucks and got a similar improvements reducing drag.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

It was probably me, I have commented about it several times. I think that Greg E has a fix that doesn't involve removing the center axle.

Years ago when I first got the heavyweights I removed the center axle from the three axle trucks. I have 10' diameter curves and they would not go around them. I have not had any problems since. I used to pull them with an Aristo Mikado, but a little while ago I blew out the drive rods on the engineers side. Too late to get anything from Aristo. 

Chuck 

PS I now pull them with an Aristo Mallet (battery and Revo reciever in a trailing box car).


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## apo234 (Aug 14, 2013)

Those are some awesome photos!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

APO, thanks, the pictures were taken at Dr. Rivet's layout here in Virginia. There are some videos of his recent steam/battery events in the LIVE STEAM forum. Chuck 

PS, look for IE& W in the title.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete do you think using BB wheels on the HWs would improve their pulling capacity? 

I also remember someone saying that switching the trucks from the 3 axle HW units to 2 axle passenger car units 
Vic, 

To address the second question first - Aristo supplied the Heavyweights with both 2 and 3 axle trucks. [I have no idea whether the 2-axle units are the same as the other passenger cars.] They claimed it was 'per prototype', but I have 2 NYC coaches, and one has 3-axle and the other has 2-axle trucks. Yes, I heard that removing the center axle helps. 

As usual, it all depends on the radius you want them to traverse. Chuck's photos above on Jim's layout are on 20+' radius (45+' diam) curves. I doubt my coaches will have to handle 4' rad, 8'diam curves, but they may and I'll address the 3-axle issues if I see any. 

BB wheels, with independent rolling of each wheel (which I believe is how a lot of them work) will definitely help on tight curves. Making 3-axle trucks into 2-axle trucks will also help. And I'm sure that BB wheels will help the pulling capacity of the Atlantic.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I run mine though back to back 8' LGB turnouts. Removing the center axle helped on that piece that had three axles (diner on the SP). But ultimately, two axles track better and the diner was changed out to a later two axle unit. The two axle wheel base is a bit shorter than the three axle wheel base and putting the wheels a bit closer helps in negotiating the curves by reducing friction. 

The later two axle units have half as many pickups as the earlier units and you MUST put the wheels on the railcar in the right direction or you will create a short circuit.


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck,[/b]
I would call Navin, it mite not be to late to get rods for the Mikado. They still have alot of parts. I nave two new Mikado motor blocks with all the rods also. Thanks, Rex[/b]


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, call Aristo, or is there a separate number for Navin? Interested in selling one of your blocks? PM me if I interested in selling. Chuck


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