# NT-Gold Rush-Alaska



## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone following the Discovery Channel's *Gold Rush-Alaska* ?










Totally aside from the debates on the merits or lack thereof regarding the story line of this program, 
what is of particular interest to me is that the Quartz Creek claims in the Yukon Territory, 
some 45 miles SE of Dawson City are located very close to Sulphur Springs, the end of the line 
for the abandoned railroad grade that was once the Klondike Mines Railway. 
I wrote about the KMR extensively in an earlier thread.


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## Dale W (Jan 5, 2008)

Yes, I watched and enjoyed this series last year and the new episodes this year, however I wonder at times about the authenticity or is this just " made for TV " thing. 

I now need to find your earlier threads on the KMR. Thanks for posting. How far you you located from this location? 

Dale


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dale W on 03 Dec 2011 03:40 PM 
Yes, I watched and enjoyed this series last year and the new episodes this year, however I wonder at times about the authenticity or is this just " made for TV " thing. 

I now need to find your earlier threads on the KMR. Thanks for posting. How far you you located from this location? 

Dale 
The location of the original KMR thread is _here._

I am located in Copper Center, which is 100 road miles north of Valdez, Alaska, which, by way of the Top-of-the-World Highway is approximately 370 road miles to Quartz Creek in the Yukon Territory.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_*This sign *_is at the junction of the Bonanza Road and Sulphur Springs / Quartz Creek Road near Solomon Dome. 
I've been there, although that sign was not there back then.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is the map showing the route the Discovery crew would have used to reach their gold claims from Dawson City (red line--Klondike Highway to Hunker Creek Road to Sulphur Springs Road:
  Shown in gold is the old KRM right-of-way from Grand Forks to Sulphur Springs. The junction where the roads meet is just west of the original Sulphur Springs wye turn-around.
I have located the most likely area where the Discovery Channel gold claims would be found, which is in the upper reaches of Quartz Creek, just north of the abandoned dredge. Click image for the larger map.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a detail of the previous map showing the route from Sulphur Springs to the base of the ridge at Quartz Creek. The abandoned dredge location is marked, as is the farthest extent of the historic dredging operations.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Close-up of the likely area where the Gold Rush-Alaska claims would be located:


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

As you know, Ron, we have been in the Dawson City area a number of times, so your photos and maps always intrigue me. I think I've seen that road sign too, although I'm not positive. Seems to me it was there 1-1/2 years ago when we were up there and saw you.

Ed


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ron 

Good to hear from you and yes I follow the show. 

Randy


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The chances of this team or the other two teams finding ANY significant amount of gold in any of these diggings is close to NIL, of course.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Their chances of finding gold might be NIL...but think of all the fun they have with bears!!!! 

I've been watching this show since it started...and love it. It's one of those shows I watch when my wife is asleep. It's just pure hokey...very relaxing.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally Jack the father is a idiot and the rest are a accident whating to happen. Dakota fred is getting just what he deserves for back stabbing the other group. Wait OMG i sound like a soap opera junkie. Anyway it's fun to watch and laugh at how unorganized the whole bunch are.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pete on 04 Dec 2011 07:49 AM 
Personally Jack the father is a idiot and the rest are a accident whating to happen. Dakota fred is getting just what he deserves for back stabbing the other group. Wait OMG i sound like a soap opera junkie. Anyway it's fun to watch and laugh at how unorganized the whole bunch are. 
It is difficult to feel that Dakota Fred did not deserve what he got, especially considering how he denied that he had done anything wrong to the Hoffmans. No way do any of them have a chance in the gold mining business UNLESS their misadventures happen to find their way into a popular television series. The most promising claim appears to me to be Dakota Fred's. But I don't think he has enough time or resources to capitalize on the glory hole. I don't see much likelihood of significant gold where Parker Schnabel is looking. And my photo analysis of the claims on Quartz Creek show that almost all of that ground has already been disturbed. Also, it is too far upstream to be likely to yield any significant finds. 









_Above: in front of the abandoned dredge_ @ Quartz Creek
Below: the Glory Hole in SE AK


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What happened to Dakota Fred? Is he the one that bought the claim right from underneath the Guys? 
I personally would not be digging for gold on land that I did not own. 
There are tooooo many goat sucking back stabbing pigs out there 
But that's just me 

JJ


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ You're right. 

It doesn't seem like there is any signed cotracts. Or at least the show doesn't mention any. Todd and his crew are really out to fail. Todd is dumber than a door knob. If they had a contract with the owner of the glory hole, they wouldn't have been able to get thown off the property. The only smart thing Todd has done in the whole show is have the Quartz Creek property sample drilled. They keep talking about how the kids going to go bank rupt if he doesn't find gold, yet where is the money coming from for the kit to buy all this stuff he keeps buying? I hope he hits the big one, but he's just like Todd in that he's mining where he hopes gold is. He needs to do drill sampling also. 

While it would be fun to go to Alaska to hunt for gold thinking I could hit the big strike and be rich, the show does show how hard it really is to find gold. You can't just walk up to a stream and dip a pan in the water and pull up gold like the old movies showed. 

By far my favorite shows on TV are , Gold Rush, Storage Wars, Ice Road Truckers, American Pickers, the auction show I can't think of the name right now and Pawn Stars. Yea, they're all hoaky to a point they're far better than the crap the wife watches. 

Randy


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Randy 

I did like the first two Ice Road Truckers. 
I have canceled Satellite because I did not think it was worth the money anymore. 
I thought I would miss it but I don't 
In fact I don't watch that much TV anymore. 
I buy DVD of programs I like 

JJ


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Although, like many other people, I have some doubts about the legitimacy of the story line (Pawn Stars has already been demonstrated to be contrived--any surprise there ?) the locations appear to be legitimate and the problems are ones that could even happen to those who are far more experienced and prepared. It is little wonder that there are few small placer operations left in Alaska. There IS something of a boom going on in the Klondike, however. So this story makes some sense. 

As I have already indicated, my real interest is in the historic setting since Quartz Creek is SO close to the terminus of the Klondike Mines Railway, which ended service in 1911.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By eheading on 03 Dec 2011 06:52 PM 
As you know, Ron, we have been in the Dawson City area a number of times, so your photos and maps always intrigue me. I think I've seen that road sign too, although I'm not positive. Seems to me it was there 1-1/2 years ago when we were up there and saw you.

Ed
If you were on the Bonanza Creek Road and followed it through to King Solomon Dome, then you would have seen that sign. Fascinating country, is it not ? I am amazed that I have only heard of one train model of the KMR--and that is in HO scale. Too bad. This was an amazing railroad that just begs to be modeled.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pete on 04 Dec 2011 07:49 AM 
Personally Jack the father is a idiot and the rest are a accident waiting to happen. 
Each of those three claims has already seen their share of accidents and unnecessary break-downs. However, when one is operating on the fly, these things are to be expected. It is frustrating to watch, but it sure makes for an interesting story--almost along the lines of a soap opera.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I also enjoy watching this show. I drive my wife nuts when I keep saying "I cant believe they are doing it that way!" 

I am a Mining Engineer by education and trade (for a while, aint now) so it intruges me. I spent summers working in a gold mine, albeit a much larger scale. I then worked for a rock quarry upon gradutation so I had a lot of experience in setting up a crushing operation. 

As far as how the show goes, I cant say if it is made for TV or not. The backstory is correct. I verified that much. These guys were out of options, but Todd and Jack did pitch the show to get money to buy all the equipment the first year. This year I am not sure, I would say its not that desperate. They are TV stars and I think they are getting income coming in from elsewhere. 

As far as Quartz Creek goes, they explained it in the show, where the Hoffmans are digging is where the dredge couldn't get to. The creek was too shallow. And the drill assays prove it (first smart thing they did this season). What gets me, is with all the environmental things I had to deal with, I cant believe its ok to just drive back and forth through the creek without any water quality issues. Plus its also amazing that they can just dump the used water that goes through their plant, on the ground and let it run into the creek. I know that in any of the operations I was in we had to account for silt in the water with settling pools plus we definately could not drive back and forth through a creek! 

As for Dakota Fred, us South Dakotans like it when North Dakotans get thier just due. I cant help but feel Fred is getting his "just due." One other thing you may not have noticed about Fred's claim is he filled in that glory hole to make way for a haul road. So the gold that the Hoffmans found last year is under his haul road. I doubt Fred finds much. 

As for Parker and the Gold Nugget Mine, I have to aggree. The mine claim is probably about played out. We shall see this week or next wither the so-called ancient Smith creek bed is gold bearing. I cant believe that his grandpa is 91 years old. I only hope I make it that long and look as good as he does. 

As for Jack Hoffman, I would have fired him a long time ago. He is the biggest safety concern out there. I wouldn't tollerate that on any of my crews.


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, so glad to hear from you, my son and I watch the show every week, we love it!!!! I was hoping you would chime in on some RR that I would of assumed went towards that quartz creek site, if they say there was so much mining there had to be a RR there.

What do you think about that Dutchmans way of mining, he sure did have a big pan of gold, and someone had to find gold to afford all that equipment.

Tom H


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tom h on 05 Dec 2011 05:52 PM 
Ron, so glad to hear from you, my son and I watch the show every week, we love it!!!! I was hoping you would chime in on some RR that I would of assumed went towards that quartz creek site, if they say there was so much mining there had to be a RR there.
Are you kidding ? The KMR is my all-time favorite NG railroad. Once I saw that the Hoffmans were heading into the Klondike, I began taking a very close look. The green line shows the actual route the Hoffmans used to travel between Dawson City and their claims on upper Quartz Creek. The route definitely intersects the historic end point of the KMR, MP 31, near Sulphur Springs, and passes just to the south of the old KMR wye. Shown in gold is section 2 of the KMR line--the segment which ran from Grand Forks to Sulphur Springs. Most of that segment is now inaccessible, but there is a nearly-parallel road to the immediate south, downhill from the old RR grade--the upper Bonanza Creek Road--which is the other route into Dawson City. Click image for a larger view. 
  

What do you think about that Dutchmans way of mining, he sure did have a big pan of gold, and someone had to find gold to afford all that equipment.

Tom H

I either missed that episode or I just don't know to what you are referring.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

From this sign, you are looking more or less south. The ridge you see should be the west wall of upper Quartz Creek, which is in a narrow gulch. The access road follows the spine of that ridge to the creek. You can see part of that road in the distance. Upper Bonanza is the road leading to Grand Forks, and from there to Dawson City. Posted By blackburn49 on 03 Dec 2011 06:29 PM 
_*This sign *_is at the junction of the Bonanza Road and Sulphur Springs / Quartz Creek Road near Solomon Dome. 
I've been there, although that sign was not there back then.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

It's looking pretty exciting for the Hoffman's in this episode. . . 
I have been scanning what views there are of the countryside to try to confirm its location. It is not quite where I originally placed it. The claims are in a slightly wider part of the valley than the section I had thought. However, it also appears that what I had thought was the old dredge was something else. I have a better fix on it now. . .


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Yeah, its nice to see them starting to get going. The quarry guy (cant remember his name) is a great addition. He knows what he is doing and lights a fire under their rears.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm digging in my back yard, but the bedrock must be really deep. Sure is a lot of water 3 feet down. What is fools gold going for these days? I think I just found the mother load.


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Ha ha Randy. It would seem that since real gold is around $2000 an ounce it would have to mean that Fool's Gold is gotta be worth at least half that, right???


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Site A is the apparent abandoned dredge location based on my most recent analysis.
Site B is where I first believed the dredge was located. However, subsequent analysis makes this site less probable. 
Site C was the area I had originally marked as the furthest extension of dredging operations. The problem is that the valley is so narrow here that what appears to be dredge tailings piles are more likely remnants from a bull-dozing operation. 

There is a second branch to Quartz Creek on the left, which is to the west. However, my analysis of the aerials does not reveal any likely massive dredging operations there. Instead, it appears that the entire area was disturbed by more conventional bull-dozing methods. On the other hand, the creek branch to the right contains the remains of a large dredge pond at what I now consider the practical limit at which a large dredge could have advanced up this gulch. I am no expert on this, of course. I can only make comparisons with similar operations within this same area. I have seen the size of these dredges and dredge ponds, both in the Yukon and in Alaska. 
In any case, I now believe that somewhere in the vicinity of Site A would be the most-likely location for the Gold Rush-Alaska claims. More maps to follow will show additional details. Be sure to click on this map for a closer view. 

Also note that this site is indeed very close to the historic end of the Klondike Mines Railway line at approximately KMR MP 31, just west of Sulphur Springs, a gulch which leads into Sulphur Springs Creek. 

The green line is the road to Dawson. The gold line is the end of the KMR railroad grade. There is also an orange line which was a historic road to Gold Bottom Creek. That road is now abandoned. I traced it in as a way of further solidifying the exact location of the Sulphur Springs wye--the historic turn-around point for the KMR.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This second Google-Earth map clearly shows the location of the KMR wye, which is as close to scale as I could get it. As you can see, the existing road (green) passes over the western part of that historic railroad turn-around. As you can clearly see, when viewing the larger map (click map image), the end of the KMR runs along the top of a narrow ridge. The wye was designed to turn the narrow gauge engine plus just four cars. The KMR used to make an annual passenger run to this point and hold a picnic at King Solomon Dome for the residents of Dawson and Grand Forks. They had two passenger cars, and possibly two additional open cars, to transport passengers. For a time, the KMR also ran stage lines from the end of the line at MP 31 to other points such as Hunker Creek, Readford on Quartz Creek and to camps along Sulphur Springs Creek. They also had a mail contract into these gold camp areas for a brief time. 

  Makes me want to get back into historic railroad modeling just going over all of this.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Closer views of the likely area where Gold Rush-Alaska's Quartz Creek claims are located: 
  Site A includes the large dredge pond near the upper reaches of the east branch of Quartz Creek. The location of the abandoned dredge is unclear from these images, but typically the dredge would be left on the upper end of the pond. There is a likely point near Site A where this could be. Regrettably, no sign of this dredge pond has so far appeared in the series, but there would have to have been one, since these dredges were, in fact, large floating barges.


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## carlferg (Mar 18, 2009)

This show is identical to those real housewife shows only it"s a bunch of guys infighting. Damn, I can"t look away!


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Carl....there's only one way you can say that with knowledge....and I'd NEVER admit it....hehehehehhehe 

I do like the show...love folks that are entrepreneurial...however, some aspects of the show make me think it should be called "Dumb and Dumber"


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

I've never even heard of this show before, but it's interesting to see the comments about it here, and even more interesting to see the stuff about the KMR. I do recall seeing the earlier thread you posted about that railroad. Neat stuff. Are you writing a book about the KMR?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Ray Dunakin on 10 Dec 2011 10:05 PM 
I've never even heard of this show before, but it's interesting to see the comments about it here, and even more interesting to see the stuff about the KMR. I do recall seeing the earlier thread you posted about that railroad. Neat stuff. Are you writing a book about the KMR? 

I have given this historic topic considerable thought over the last several years. The KMR would make an ideal backdrop for a new historic novel. The Klondike region, particularly Bonanza and upper Bonanza Creek, and the abandoned Native village of Moosehide, would be my first choice for a second book.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Over time I have managed to piece the entire 31-mile KMR line together on a Google-Earth map. Here you see it in gold. The modern Bonanza Creek road is in light green:
  Klondike area in a line drawing map, showing existing roads:


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is Klondike Mines Railway, Section 1, from the RR junction to Bear Creek complex--the "Guggieville Spur," MP 2.85 to Grand Forks, MP 13. The gold line represents the original KM RR grade and the green line is the existing Bonanza Road. Tracing the old RR grade and placing it on Google-Earth represented an interesting challenge. Very little of this segment of the old grade survived, especially from the Guggieville spur to the KMR Ry bridge. All of that was destroyed by mining operations within a few years after the KMR abandoned its right-of-way in 1913. Fortunately, two studies done in the last decade pin down most of this route and I was able to determine the location of the grade within a reasonable degree of accuracy. Most interesting to me was that the old RR crossing is gone and the new road crossing of Bonanza Creek is well upstream from the old crossing. Once the road crosses Bonanza Creek, however, it does closely follow the RR grade from that point to the site of Grand Forks. 
  It is this kind of research which is necessary to credibly construct a plan for historic recreation of an old railroad line. That way, at least, significant features can be found and included in the planned layout. Section 1 started at Dawson City, KMR MP 0, and ended at Grand Forks, MP 13. This is NOT the segment I would rebuild, but it was well worthwhile to attempt to retrace it. In any case, for those of you who have ever been there, or even plan on visiting the Klondike (WELL worthwhile) here it is. You WILL see elements of the old RR bed along the way, even in the section nearest the Guggieville turnout. I have not been there in decades, but I do recall seeing parts of that RR grade along the hillside along the way. I also recall seeing the old RR bridge that once led to Guggieville, which is a reference to the Guggenheim money that was behind that massive gold dredging operation of the 1920s and 30s.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

I take it NOBODY else does this . . .


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 12 Dec 2011 04:44 PM 
I take it NOBODY else does this . . . 
Nope, but it's fascinating how you do it. I spend all day fiddling the tiny details of ridiculous client demands.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron 

I could try doing the same research of the railroads back home in WV, but who would care? 

Alaska is exciting and you do such a great job bringing it to life, how could any of us compare?


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 12 Dec 2011 04:44 PM 
I take it NOBODY else does this . . . 
I don't, but its interesting to read about. My prototype I'm modeling still has tracks, so I can look at google earth a little bit easier to find the ROW...
Interesting history lessons though! 


Craig


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Could never do that, dont have the know how, but I really really really appreciate when you do this, love reading about all the history you bring into it.

I for one dont want you to stop and encourage you to keep dong it.

Tom h


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I agree with Tom. I always enjoy your posts. Please keep posting. 

JJ


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

I love history, especially railroad history, and it's great to see something besides the usual Colorado NG stuff. Have you considered submitting an article about the KMR to the Narrow Gauge & Short Line Gazette? They often run historical articles on obscure short lines.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

When I see your signature, your post goes to the top of the list. 
Down here in civulizashun my boundaries are more closely defined; from home out to my favorite abandoned mines, 22 miles away. While I did research to see if they ever had rail service, nope, I did find out about The El Paso and Southwestern RR. It was built as competition to the SP and served the mining region south of Tombstone. It too passed north of my mines and ran parallel to the SP into Tucson. However in Vail there were loading docks on the EP andSW, for ore brought in by wagons. 
My railroad has become a 'what if' rail replaced oxen? But it's near impossible to find old wagon trails where monsoons move so much top soil. Google earth shows the El Paso row, but nothing in likely trails knowing the up and down topography here. 

You are a teacher and I'm a student... 

John


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