# USA Trains Replace hook/loop with knuckle - question



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have some USA Trains stock cars and want to replace the hook/loop style with Kadee knuckle couplers.

I primarily run AMS stock cars. Which Kadee coupler would I get for the USA Trains?

Thanks,
Jim


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Do you want body mounted couplers or truck mounted couplers?

I'm guessing truck mounted...just like the hook and loops they come with.

The Kadee #909 is the one you want for truck mounted couplers. You'll have to cut off the protruding end of the USA trains coupler tang. Other than that the Kadee 909 is a direct replacement.

Here is a link to the coupler instructions (for an 831...which is the old style of the 909):

Coupler Instructions

Wait, USA trains does/did not make any stock cars? Am I missing something


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Matt! It's actually the crane and crane tender cars.

I prefer body mounted. Will the 909 work well with my AMS cars?


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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

Kadee has a conversion chart that lists most makes and models...

http://www.kadee.com/conv/lscc.htm


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

jimtyp said:


> Thanks Matt! It's actually the crane and crane tender cars.
> 
> I prefer body mounted. Will the 909 work well with my AMS cars?


Body mounts:

I redid my USA crane with a Kadee 906. I had to add a coupler pad out of styrene. And possibly some filing/cutting to the end of the car. But can't fully remember and I'm currently at my California residence while my crane is in Colorado. So unfortunately I can't check it for you.

The Kadee 906 is the go to coupler for body mounting. I use them exclusively now. And I much prefer the new 900 series ("E" type) as they look much more realistic then the older 800 or 700 series. I also cut off the "air hoses".

Found this on the Kadee website for AMS cars:

http://www.kadee.com/conv/AMS-Accucraft-Freight-Cars.pdf

They say to use an 835, but I think a 901 would work as well...it being the newer "E" type. In fact I'm pretty sure I used a 901 for my Accucraft flanger.

And this:
http://www.kadee.com/conv/lscc_accucraft_ams.htm


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Matt & Martan!

Looks like 906 it will be!


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Kadee 906 and 907 are the most common body mount.

http://www.reindeerpass.com/Kadee-906-Coupler.aspx

http://www.reindeerpass.com/Kadee-Centerset-Couplers-831-Gear-Box.aspx


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## attaboy (Oct 26, 2016)

*Kadee Couplers .. Scales*

Rather than start a new thread, here is a follow up to the original poster's question. Now Kadee lists their trucks as #1 Gage and "G" gauge as 1:29 and 1:32 scales, and while they discriminate between their #1 Scale and "G" Scale with their coupler product offerings, I see they do indeed have listings for 1:20.3 scale, also known as Fn3.

Now, it became readily apparent that becoming a "Rivet Counter" pretty much went out the window about a month into this, as the plethora of products range from 1:20.3 up to 1:32 for what is commonly simply called "G" Scale. The guy who came up with "The Ten Foot Rule" .. Brilliant!

So given the above, I figure I better get an appropriate Kadee coupler gauge, so that I'm not investing in stuff that will collect dust, and even that is not clear. The layout is planned for next Spring, so no stress. I have six 1:20.3 Spectrum Locos, one 1:22.5 4-6-0 Loco, one USAT SD40-2 1:29 (I think), USAT MOW cars, and collecting mostly USAT (truss bar) reefers. So already, I'm all over the map when it comes to scale(s) .. jus couldn't hep mahself. TG for the 10 Foot Rule 

So .. which Kadee coupler gauge would be most appropriate for me to buy? I also invite your opinions as to marry these puppies up if that's even possible. Sure, the "Hook & Loop" stuff will work just fine, but I'd like to have an upgrade path. Thanks guys (and gals). Cheers!

Jon in the woods
mendorailhistory.org


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Jon:

I have all Bachmann engines and have standardized on the Gauge #1 couplers and thus I use the #1929 Type "E" Coupler Height Gauge. I have many different scale cars, mostly the Big Haulers, some AML a couple of LGB and one Aristocraft. With a bit of work, mostly shimming as I use almost exclusively body mounts, they have been relatively easy to install. Sometimes, especially on the Bachmann cars it is simply removing the factory one and scewing in the Kadee.

I am indoors and have very smooth trackwork. I am aware that many complain that Type E Gauge #1 couplers do not reliably stay coupled though I've never experienced this issue. Most of my curves are 7.5 to a bit greater than 8 foot diameter and one S curve.

I buy most of my couplers from RLD Hobbies. I find their prices and services to be among the best.

Mark

p.s. and welcome! !


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## attaboy (Oct 26, 2016)

Thanks Mark,

So the "E" type couplers are the latest generation I gather. As to the complaints, perhaps inadvertent un-coupling is due to misalignment horizontally above the track height. As I mentioned in my post, my equipment ranges from 1:20.5 up through 1:29 for the SD40-2. With having read of cars getting un-coupled due to that problem, I thought I should ask. The vast majority of my rolling stock is, and will be .. USAT which is 1:24, with the SD40-2 being the exception.

With Kadee, what is the difference between what they call #1 or "G" scale? What is the advantage of their "E" type over their "older" style? Thanks for sharing your experience Mark, and Happy Trails!

Jon in the woods
mendorailhistory.org


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

attaboy said:


> With Kadee, what is the difference between what they call #1 or "G" scale?


Size..the #1 scale couplers are smaller than the G scale couplers. but apart from size, they look the same, and they will work together. photo here that shows the two sizes together:
http://www.trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips2/kadee_tips.html



attaboy said:


> What is the advantage of their "E" type over their "older" style?


The only advantage is looks..there is no operational difference. The "E" type looks more realistic, better matches a prototype coupler knuckle. and the E-type will also work with the "older" style. (all Kadee "large scale" couplers will work together)

E-type:
http://www.kadee.com/html/901r.jpg
http://www.kadee.com/html/743l.jpg

Traditional or "older" style:
http://www.kadee.com/html/779.jpg

Scot


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

You could do a bit of searching on the web. Here's one that gives some of the basics of the Kadees - New Guy with coupler question, especially Kevin Strong's reply on September 7, 2012 7:45 PM PDT. I chose the "E" mostly based upon his recommendation and rationale from this and other discussions on the two main forums that I frequent, this one and LSC.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*Kadee 1907 compared to 907*

Note the differences between the Kadee #1 scale and "G" scale couplers shown below.
Picture of "E" type Kadee 1907 compared to 907 coupler 









I body mount all Kadee couplers on locos and cars, all of which use centerset (no vertical offset) types (except my USAT SD70s have a medium offset type). However, even if you use truck mount couplers, the differences between those two Kadees types should be considered with respect to possible rolling stock coupler height mismatch issues.

For more info. that may be of interest is in "vignette" (article) hosted for me by Greg E. on his Web site, title:
*Kadee #1 vs. G Gauge couplers in Datum Precision Metal Coupler Box*
(*Note*: This article is focused those Kadee couplers installed in custom made aluminum coupler boxes made for use on locos; however, the info. presented may still be of interest.) 

-Ted


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

You should be aware that the Gauge #1 couplers must be installed with much more precision than the G gauge couplers. Any tilting of the coupler tends to cause the Gauge #1 couplers to come apart fromt the other car much easier. The G gauge couplers are more forgiving. Also, the track has to be much more smooth or else the Gauge #1 can ride up over the next coupler and disconnect. I have a 16 wheel depressed flat car by LGB with all metal wheels. It's heavy. I tried using the #1 gauge Kadees and could not keep it coupled to the other cars in the frt consist. Note: The other cars were using G Gauge couplers and the Gauge #1 couplers just didn't seem to couple up with them very well.


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## attaboy (Oct 26, 2016)

Wow .. thanks a million guys. Incredibly useful links, and photos posted here. For sure, it looks like I should opt for the "G" scale system, for both compatibility and reliability, even though they are kinda oversize. Again .. the guy who came up with "The Ten Foot Rule" .. Brilliant. Unfortunately I already ordered a 1929 coupler gauge yesterday which is apparently for Gage #1. Maybe it hasn't shipped and I can change my order .. or .. order the "G" gauge version, and I'll own the set 

I have 5 1:20.3 Bachmann loco's here, so I'm guessing that maybe hybrids are a solution for a dedicated "match-up" car. I wasn't going to do diesels, but in a moment of weakness I got an SD40-2 .. changes layout criteria big time. I had an HO layout when I was 12 .. we didn't have such coupler challenges .. but then .. that was only 4 by 8 feet.

Thanks again .. and if I missed this incredibly important information for newbies in a "Sticky" somewhere, I do apologize. Perhaps if it's not there, one of the Yoda's here could post it. Happy Trails .. To You!

Jon in the (pouring rain) woods
mendorailhistory.org


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Randy's reply reminds me of another issue with respect to truck mounting couplers, particularly pertinent to the smaller #1 Scale Kadee. The truck tang where the coupler is mounted is cantilevered out toward the end of a car and as such is very prone to move up and down during train operation on a layout. That means the coupler movement is amplified at the coupler's jaw with more up & down movement that definitely invites uncoupling. Thus, if using the Kadee #1 scale coupler, it's best to only body mount it.

-Ted


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