# "Old Betsy"



## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

A 1905 photo of "Old Betsy" on the Oregon & California Railroad:










Full-size image here:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/O_and_C_Photo_01_(8072079456)_(2).jpg

Sure would make a great little model!


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Great photo Ray

Thanks for posting


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Billie just did one in live steam.
See
Oregon Pony
Same boiler, different drive.
Thanks for posting.
John


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Guess its a good thing I ran out of drive trains to bash stuff like this on.


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## Bob Baxter (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks, Ray. That is one UGLY loco and just the kind I love to model. Time to look in my power block box and see what's in there.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Here's a similar loco:










It gives a better view of the boiler, though I'm still not 100% sure what is where on it. Looks like the firebox is directly below the smokebox, though it's clearly not a vertical boiler. The cylinder on this side of the loco appears to be a water pump, driven by a gear off the front axle, perhaps?

They sure did things strange at the Vulcan Iron Works... 

Later,

K


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

I found a couple other photos of the O&C RR loco:



















These photos, and some similar small locos, can be seen at this site:

http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Oregon-Ponies/


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## Don Gage (Jan 4, 2008)

Thank you for the images Ray and Kevin!
One of these little lovelies will definitely be on my to-do list. The next show for the Door Hollow is January... hmmmm... maybe.

Don


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

What was the benefit in having a return flue design rather than the smokebox out the front?

Andrew


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

I don't think there was any advantage to it. Probably more of an experiment. It was an early design, and it never became popular for locomotives.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

If'n the chimney was up front...
Then the roof would have ta be longer. ..

Why....

....so's the chiminey.. could still go thru the darn roof!!

;-)
.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

No point having a chimney outside in the rain, I thought it was to make space for the bell and headlight! ;-)

Andrew


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

You guys should watch the Live Steam column here. Billie just built the Ore. Pony, you should see the vids....


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

The supposed advantage of the return flue boiler was to gain more heating surface exposed to the water surfaces.
This was an advantage in small boilers, like on the Betsy and similar engines. Return flue boilers were primarily used on steam equipment like traction engines and portable boiler/engines. A number of these boiler types had neither crown sheet or stay bolts but had water jackets surrounding the fire and smoke box/tube on almost all sides. 

Huber Company of Marion, Ohio was about the last big equipment builder that used the return flue style boiler on their equipment. 

Unlike compounding steam to gain more efficiency in cylinders the compounding of the heat/smoke through the heat tubes didn't become quite as successful or popular especially in longer boilers.

Still a cool little engine though.
Rick


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