# Augmenting Playmobil? Lil' Big Haulers roofs removable?



## nychris (Dec 11, 2016)

Apologies to the serious scale modelers here, but everyone starts somewhere... or, in my case, restarts when the nephew and niece start to be of age to get involved.

Recently in a clothing store, I happened on an absurdly marked down Playmobil freight train - the RC diesel and flatcar set - and immediately bought it as I thought my sister's kids would just be getting to the point of enjoying it. Fortunately there was no way I was getting on Amtrak with the factory box, so I had a great excuse to open it for an, er, "engineering safety evaluation". Overal, I'm rather impressed... but just one car to haul scarcely counts as a "train".

Amidst thoughts of scratchbuilding/3d printing some sort of crude people-hauler car they could load up with playmobil passengers, I found the Bachmann "Li'l Big Hauler" series, and started to think about picking up one of the coaches from that series.

But the key question in my mind is if the roof is a separate casting that I might modify to be removable? Or is it unitary?

While contemplating, I found one of the Big Hauler Christmas sets at a can't-say-no price in a Marshall's, and got that as well, with imaginings of hanging onto the 4-6-0 engine for a year or two until my nephew is older, but adding the candy-cane flatcar and caboose to round out the playmobil set now. After switching out to the hook and loop couplers I can add them to the playmobil train, and the RC battery diesel seems able to haul the result around the plastic track happily. But I was disappointed to find that the caboose upper body is one piece, so there's no way short of sawing I could rig that with a removable roof to allow seating people inside.

Does anyone know if the roof on the Li'l Big Haulers passenger coach is a separate piece? I'd gotten the impression from someone's modification writeup that it was, and screwed on and was thinking perhaps I could leave out the screws and add some 3d printed frame inside to make it a drop-on roof, perhaps with some seats for the playmobil figures inside. But if they aren't removable, maybe I'll just make some passenger seats that install on the playmobil flatcar...

Also, I'm wondering about compatibility of Bachmann metal-wheeled stock with the plastic playmobil track. I think that for the first few months at least until seeing if things will stay on a "break the track down before bedtime" plan, I'm going to gift the playmobil train on it's plastic track, and keep the ever-so-flimsy Bachmann steel track myself to test projects on. I started into the process of rewiring the Bachmann 4-6-0 towards a custom battery an RC setup (my day job is engineering wireless smart-home gadgets), but immediately noticed that while it would cruise around pretty well on the Bachmann metal track on 6xAA, when placed on the plastic playmobil track it was on the verge of stall even with 9xAA and pulling only the tender those were sitting on - apparently there's more drag with the Bachman drive wheels on the playmobil track. That's disappointing, as I'd been thinking about getting one of the simpler 0-4-0 Li'l Big Hauler engines and converting it as a follow-on gift - the playmobil equivalents seemingly now being collectible unobtanium.

Anyone able to comment on:

- If the Li'l Big Haulers passenger coach roof might be modded to be removable?

- If I should change out the Bachmann wheelsets for the plastic playmobil ones when running the freight cars on the playmobil plastic track?

- Is trying to run a Bachmann 0-4-0 switch engine on plastic playmobil track mechanically futile? Or was my problem unique to the 4-6-0? Is there some way to adjust the wheel spacing for a little more freedom?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

vsmith had a railcar bash thread but the images are no longer there to see. 
There is one here on Google: https://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gscalecentral.net%2Fproxy.php%3Fimage%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.mylargescale.com%252F1stclass%252Fvsmith%252FLBH%252520Railbus%25252001.JPG%26hash%3D9a1471166486a25b3c123a966283e947&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gscalecentral.net%2Fthreads%2Flil-big-hauler-combine-car-into-railbus-bash.250696%2F&docid=OsQD80-sNsBBWM&tbnid=IdLybBWanZNatM%3A&vet=1&w=640&h=480&itg=1&bih=759&biw=1536&q=lil%20big%20hauler%20bash&ved=0ahUKEwjO7P2CtuvQAhXIWrwKHcNjC6oQMwgaKAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

The roofs are removable but look like a squeeze to get hands in. 
I'm sure Vic will give you the details when he sees this thread.

Modifying a Bachmann 4-6-0 to a slightly narrower gauge would not be an easy job.
Running it on too narrow gauge, verging on stall is likely to eventually strip the gear teeth. 

I compared the Lil big hauler 0-4-0 saddle tank gauge to a 4-6-0 Annie and it is a little narrower by almost 1mm plus the wheelbase is a lot shorter for going around curves so probably OK on Playmobil track. 

You can press most wheels along their metal axles to whatever gauge you want.

Have you checked out the Hartland mini cars? They are inexpensive simple kits and have hook n' loop couplers. They also have a caboose. Not sure about the roof. Contact them.
http://www.h-l-w.com/mini-series.html

Andrew


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

http://www.h-l-w.com/make--take-kits.html


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## nychris (Dec 11, 2016)

Garratt said:


> vsmith had a railcar bash thread but the images are no longer there to see.
> There is one here on Google: https://www.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gscalecentral.net%2Fproxy.php%3Fimage%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.mylargescale.com%252F1stclass%252Fvsmith%252FLBH%252520Railbus%25252001.JPG%26hash%3D9a1471166486a25b3c123a966283e947&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.gscalecentral.net%2Fthreads%2Flil-big-hauler-combine-car-into-railbus-bash.250696%2F&docid=OsQD80-sNsBBWM&tbnid=IdLybBWanZNatM%3A&vet=1&w=640&h=480&itg=1&bih=759&biw=1536&q=lil%20big%20hauler%20bash&ved=0ahUKEwjO7P2CtuvQAhXIWrwKHcNjC6oQMwgaKAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8
> 
> The roofs are removable but look like a squeeze to get hands in.
> I'm sure Vic will give you the details when he sees this thread.


Thanks - that looks hopeful - and we're talking about smaller hands. The cars are going for little enough now I think I'll probably get one and try - if it proves difficult (or to 3d print a secure seat) I might just buy a bag of people and lightly glue them in - thinking about putting someone in the caboose that way.

Though I just discovered that the LGB "toy trains" series passenger isn't exorbitantly expensive, and looks even more playmobil-style (unsurprising giving the past relationship).



> I compared the Lil big hauler 0-4-0 saddle tank gauge to a 4-6-0 Annie and it is a little narrower by almost 1mm plus the wheelbase is a lot shorter for going around curves so probably OK on Playmobil track.


Now I feel silly, seeing as I had digital calipers next to my keyboard when I posted that.

So, the playmobil 0-4-0 diesel has about 44mm to the "corner" where the rim meets the tire, while the Bachmann 4-6-0 is a hair over 45mm and has more slope on the flange - but the wheel base is nearly the same. The playmobil rail is about 44.8mm on the insides and very rectangular, while the Bachmann steel track is about 45.4mm and more rounded in profile as it's shaped sheet metal.

Hmm, I guess I could pin my hopes on the shorter wheelbase of a Bachmann 0-4-0 being the save, but sounds like I shouldn't get more playmobil track until that is tried.



> You can press most wheels along their metal axles to whatever gauge you want.


May have to try that - you would use a screw press, or a very small hammer and keep measuring?



> Have you checked out the Hartland mini cars? They are inexpensive simple kits and have hook n' loop couplers. They also have a caboose. Not sure about the roof. Contact them.
> http://www.h-l-w.com/mini-series.html


Those are nice! And very affordable. Wish they had a passenger car though. Somehow I think this project may go from not enough cars to way too many.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

LGB 2 axle cars are very common and have swinging axle frames to help go around tight curves. 

If you don't have a press you can sit the wheelset wheel (top one or bottom one) on top of an almost closed vice and lightly tap the axle to adjust the gauge either way. 

G gauge track is usually a little over gauge as your measurements indicate. This helps going around curves.

Andrew


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

When children run a steam engine, be careful of the side rods creating pinch points. LGB used to state children needed to be over 8 years of age, and now I believe they state 15 years.
LGB also made very short cars (approx 5 inches long) as did HLW (assembled and kit versions) that had solid frames holding the wheels and couplers that were body mounted. Great for very young children.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I d love to help but alas all my photos are still AWOL and the situation with my photo storage is still FUBAR.

In short, yes Lil Big Hauler coaches the roofs are removable. There is no glazing plastic inside. I added full interiors and passengers to mine. The photos really explained everything.

BE AWARE OF THIS, the standard Lil Hauler couplers as delivered WILL NOT couple with Playmobil or LGB. For whatever STUPID reason the brain-trust at Kader in China decided to sell these with the coupler at the height of their Thomas the Tank Engine line, but where with the Thomas line they provide adapter blocks to lower the coupler, they don't provide them with the Lil Hauler line, so you will need to get some on eBay. Ana.kramer and Favorite Spot usually have them for sale, they're cheap and you get 6 adapters per sale.

I could help more if my photo archive was still working.


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

A train set in a clothing store ? 

Great find !!



doug c


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## nychris (Dec 11, 2016)

Doug C said:


> A train set in a clothing store ?


Many of them get in an odd assortment of toys for the Christmas season. The playmobil diesel set was a real deal... barely more than the throwaway-grade Christmas Tree trains it was with. 

Anyway, many thanks to all for the answers and suggestions! I'm just back from Trainworld in Brooklyn with the cute Li'l Big Hauler passenger coach, and the even cuter 0-4-0 engine. Not only that, by riding the subway back I spied a 1930's R9 train across the platform on a holiday special service exhibition run, so ran across and boarded that for part of my ride home. And to top it off, a busker correctly called the gauge of the track sticking out of my shopping bag, which lead to a long conversation about growing up with trains... so quite a weekend!

The 0-4-0 engine was at first a little disappointing on the Bachmann track, being light in weight and without traction tires it tends to spin its wheels a lot - it will pull a 5 car train, but with noticeable spinning. However, I now have it temporarily decapitated and wired to an 8xAA pack with alligator leads, and its making beautiful circles on that plastic playmobil track - instead of the binding that the 4-6-0 experienced on the curves, the plastic track is giving this little guy enough friction to pull much better. So I think if I can get the R/C conversion done in time, this will be a really cute little engine for the kids - and if not, they'll get the playmobil diesel with this as a follow on. (Until there's more track, I think two engines is excessive, and I don't want to get more track until I find out if a lasting setup of real track is plausible, or if the more toy-like playmobil track will need to serve for the next year or two). There also looks to be a spot under the front of the boiler where I might fit in a block of steel for added weight, though it would be under the linkage driven driver rather than the motor driven one. I don't think I'm going to be ale to fit batteries in the engine (perhaps I should have gotten the tank version) so most likely they'll go in the tender with nice flexible silicone wire... but I'll have to identify a kid-friendly connector.

For the passenger coach, I was able to compare the Li'l Big Hauler and a 10" LGB 93402 side by side. The LGB is clearly a better product, extremely cute, and would have still been affordable at twice the price of the Li'l biggie... but it already had passenger seats inside, and I could tell they wouldn't fit playmobil people. So I got the empty Li'l Big Hauler instead, and managed to disassemble it on the ride home. I think it will serve quite well - it seems like after cutting off the roof locking tabs I'll be left with a nice sliding fit, almost as if someone had planned that use. I will need to de-bur the web inside roof line, and perhaps cut it back slightly, but I can barely reach in, and I think little hands will do better (and if I give up on the removal, there are bosses for screws in the corners as an alternative to the tabs I'm going to remove). Then I just need to design and 3d print a decent bucket seat that securely holds a playmobil figure... and if I really get my act together, a pot belly stove for the corner under the smokestack. I'll probably also see if I can replace some of the railings with larger diameter brass rod the that figures can grab.

Probably the first project though is lowering the Li'l Big Hauler couplers. The engine itself is fine, but the tender and passenger car have the high ones everyone warned me about. Simplest idea is a 3d printed space, though it remains to be seen if the inverted hooks will be compatible with normal ones once lowered, or if I'll need to replace them with traditional underside hook assemblies (which I can borrow off the larger cars I won't be gifting in the near term). Time to measure the height difference I guess.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

It may not be the best idea to haul long consists with the Lil big hauler. The tender sets only had 2 cars. 3 probably OK.
Extra weight will offer more traction but the increased load on the motor and gears can only do so much. It is very much a toy and not made to last 30 years like LGB does. Very disappointing when choo choo no go.

Andrew


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## nychris (Dec 11, 2016)

Garratt said:


> It may not be the best idea to haul long consists with the Lil big hauler. The tender sets only had 2 cars. 3 probably OK.
> Extra weight will offer more traction but the increased load on the motor and gears can only do so much. It is very much a toy and not made to last 30 years like LGB does. Very disappointing when choo choo no go.


I'm relatively relaxed about that - it wasn't all that expensive, and if the mechanics die while the body is still nice, it can just be an excuse to tackle a repowering project. 

Plus the original diesel can step up to take over playmobil-pulling duties should that happen.

But if it ends up running on the plastic track it probably doesn't need the weight increase - I just think I might have been disappointed if I got it in a set with metal track, instead of getting my loop of metal track in a deeply discounted find of a set with the larger traction tire engine.


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## nychris (Dec 11, 2016)

I wish I could find the thread I based it on to contribute this there, but I'm 3d printing up the second of the spacer blocks to fit spare ordinary Bachmann "LGB style" hook-and-loop couplers to the Lil's big hauler's passenger coach.

I had a few of the sprung Bachmann ordinary hook and loop's spare, so am using those for the present, but an obvious step would be to try to either re-use the oddball Li'l Big Haulers couplers at the new height (and maybe somehow sprung for the usual orientation?) or to 3d print the actual coupler and not just a spacer.

Here's the parametric source in openscad in case anyone else wants to play with a variation:


```
//Adapter from Li'l Big Haulers stock coupler to
//LGB Style hook and loop by Bachmann

//NOTE: this seems to fit the Li'l Big Haulers passenger cars,
//but the hole spacing will need to be adjusted for use on the
//0-4-0 engine's tender.

//Ideally this would be used with a longer 3mm self tapping screw
//in hole "A" 

screw_t = 2.5;
screw_c = 3.7;

//Li'l Big Haulers Tongue
lh_tw = 6;
lh_tl = 15;
lh_hr = 8.5;
lh_tw = 3;
//width of adapter (frame opening)
lh_body = 27.5;

//Hole positions, A closest to edge, C furthest in
lh_bha = 10;
lh_bhc = lh_bha + 22;   //try 24.5mm for the tender
lh_l = lh_bhc + 7;

//Hole C screw head countersink
sw_d = 7;
sw_z = 3;

//height of adapter body
dz = 6.5; 

//LGB-style hook and loop (actually bachmann) tongue
lgb_tw = 7;
lgb_tcl = 8;
lgb_tl = lgb_tcl-lgb_tw/2;
//tongue length inside
lgb_tli = 20;
lgb_z = dz + 2.5;

difference() {
	union() {
		translate([0, lh_l/2, dz/2])
			cube([lh_body, lh_l, dz],center=true);
//tongue inside
		translate([0,lgb_tli/2,lgb_z/2])
			cube([lgb_tw, lgb_tli, lgb_z],center=true);
//tongue outside
		translate([0,-lgb_tl/2,lgb_z/2])
			cube([lgb_tw, lgb_tl, lgb_z],center=true);
//tongue radius
		translate([0,-lgb_tl,0])
			cylinder(r=lgb_tw/2, h=lgb_z, $fn=36);
	}
	union() {
		translate([0,lh_bha,0])
			cylinder(r=screw_t/2, h=10);
		translate([0,lh_bhc,0])
			cylinder(r=screw_c/2, h=10);
		translate([0,lh_bhc,sw_z])
			cylinder(r=sw_d/2, h=10);
	}
}
```


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## nychris (Dec 11, 2016)

Thanks all for the ideas! The converted L'il Big Hauler passenger coach was a perfect fit with the playmobil train. I should figure out how to post some pictures but I ended up making the roof removable and deburring the edge. Then I 3d printed seats on each side for two sets of facing figures, and ultimately put small removable table tops between. Also made larger 3.5mm non-scale railings to match the grip of the figures, so they can ride on the end platforms or even the stairs.

The playmobil diesel's RC controller is fairly kid-friendly, though it can take concentration to find "off" and not go past that to reverse. My nephew at almost 5 was doing well at understanding driving it, and was grasping the concept of needing to check that all wheels are on the rail but still needing some help with it at times - things like feeling the alignment of the wheels and rails with fingertips are also easier when the hands wrapped around the cars are adult-sized. And with some assistance in setup my almost 3 year old niece enjoyed putting passengers into and out of their seats and could figure out how to make it go, though not always in the intended direction.

Fortunately both have spring birthdays so there are plenty of follow on projects to think of - maybe some kind of operating log dump for him, and perhaps an excursion car with open air seating for her.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

The Hartland V dump ore cars with one raised track would be a perfect project for a semi automated jellybean mine operation.

Andrew


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