# Track



## stu30 (Jun 5, 2011)

What is the best track for outdoor use.

Thanks Stuart


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

There are as many answers to that question as there are track. A few questions: 

1) What environment are you going to be running in? 

2) Track power or battery power? 

3) Are you looking for "quick and easy" sectional track, or flex track that allows you to be a lot more creative in your railroad designs, but takes a little more work to put down? 

4) How concerned are you with aesthetics? Are you after a particular look and feel to your track? (i.e., 1st-class well-maintained standard gauge vs. backwoods narrow gauge.) 

For my money, I like the AMS code 250 narrow gauge brass flex track. It's fairly cheap in terms of cost per foot (you can get it for between $3 and $4/foot if you shop around), it looks great (narrow gauge), and the rails are a very prototypical height. It does--eventually--weather to a nice dark brown, so it looks fairly realistic without the need to paint the sides. I run battery power, so I don't need to worry about good conductivity or cleaning track. (Which isn't to say it wouldn't work well enough in that environment, just that I can't speak to how it _does_work under those conditions.) AMS has a line of matching switches which seem to have gotten good reviews. I use Sunset Valley switches because the AMS ones weren't available when I was building my line. Click on the link to my blog for photos of the railroad. (The "Tuscarora Railroad Blog" link, not the large banner. The large banner is my old, very out-of-date web site that has my old railroad.)

If I were to do track power, I'd go with stainless steel rail. It's a bit of a bugger to work with in terms of cutting, bending, and having to paint the sides of the rails for a realistic appearance, but the folks who use it for track power who post hear generally say it's a vast improvement over brass. You can get it in either code 250 or code 332 "Code" refers to the height of the rail measured in inches. Most commercial sectional track is code 332, and most manufacturers who offer both sectional and flex track offer it in code 332. I've not seen code 250 sectional track, at least not by any major manufacturer. Personally, I'm morally opposed to sectional track for anything other than temporary club displays anyway. Why limit yourself in terms of creativity of design, and sectional track is--as its name suggests--sectional, meaning you've got lots and lots of track joints. (Common lengths for sections are around 2' or so). Flex track comes in 5, 6, or even 8' lengths depending on the manufacturer, so you have a lot fewer joints for the same length of track. If you're doing track power, the fewer track joints, the fewer problems you'll have. 

Later, 

K


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## stu30 (Jun 5, 2011)

Hot in the summer 35-40 and winter about 15-20. Power I am unsure but would like DCC. I didnt know it also came in flex track, to start with the sectional track would be the go as I am just starting out.


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Stuart...... 
You better have a few $$ bills in your pocket. 
For outdoor use I prefer 332 Stainless steel rails (only) that come in 8 foot lengths (48 ft of "tieless track) in a pipe by Aristocraft. 
You will need the 1 ft slip on black Aristo ties & a dual rail bender & some Split Jaw type Stainless Steel joiner clamps. 
The cost of SS 332 rails is now about $330 for 48 feet, 48 ft of ties is $55, SS clamps $1 each, & dual track bender is about $180. 

Laying track in 8 foot chunks helps promote conductivity with fewer joints. We did not talk about SS 332 switches at $125+ a piece. 

Dennis from GBay, WI 

PS: Double click on my photo here to see 2 Shots of my elevated curved ladder layout nearly done now.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

You will likely get as many opinions as there are members who respond. My old outdoor track was LGB...no longer practical to buy. My chosen track for my new railroad is brass, code 332 AML. AML stands for American MainLine. The "wide" style ties come 11 ties per foot and are a near exact match for LGB/USA euro track. You can find it very reasonably priced compared to other brands. It also comes in an amazing number of diameters (4, 5, 6.5, 8, 9, 10, 11.5, 12.5, 15, 16.5, and 20ft) along with straight "flex" sections. AML rail clamps are also a pretty good buy. 

I run DC track power. I have no issues with track cleaning. A quick pass with a Scotch-Bright pad on a pole sander a couple of times a year works great. 

As EBT mentioned, it weathers to a really pleasing brown over time. I like this appearance more than the stainless steel rail, though I have seen some SS rail that has been painted and it too looks very nice. 

My opinion, AML offers a great variety at a very competitive price.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Stu 

You mentioned in another thread you were considering DCC. If that is DCC powered via the rails SS track though ridiculously expensive in my opinion would be your best bet. Brass would be second, not quite as expensive as SS. "G" scale track comes in basically 3 codes: 332, 250 and 215. Most use 332. In code 332 you can get SS, Brass, Nickel and aluminum. Aluminum is great for battery power but can be used with track power, it also come s in code 250 and is the most reasonably priced track out there. Since I chose battery power and wireless DCC (radio control) I chose aluminum and I paint the rails.. Brass track weathers to a realistic brown, SS and aluminum need to be painted for a realistic look. Some people don't paint them at all and just leave them the way they are. It's your railroad and whatever you like is the only thing that matters.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

code 250 in SS is a great option too.

Might I suggest reading this: *http://www.elmassian.com...trong>**

and this: http://www.elmassian.com...trong>

Regards, Greg*


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

As I remember you have N experience and probably enjoy watching your trains run on sweeping curves... those get huge in G $cale. 

I came from fine scale On3 with hand laid track and home built switches... to sectional track, a concept long discarded when I was still in HO (late 60's) so it was a bit of a shock to my trains of thought to regress. I jumped to G on impulse after watching a ton of dirt move down my hillside during a rainstorm. No way my treasured On3 could deal with that. 
Bought a starter set and the next day $300 in SS sectional track... it's what the only G store in town had. 

Flex track allows you to direct where the track goes while sectional dictates where it can go.... there are certain geometries it has to follow... 

If I knew what I know now I'd go .250 SS flex. I sure miss my easement/transition curves. 

John


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you guys got it all wrong.

Stuart asked what is the "best" track for outdoors is.

I say it's ASCE 155 lbs per yard.

It will take years to rust.

An elephant can step on it without hurting it.

It will conduct electricity.

And you don't have to worry about the neigbor kid stealing it.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Stuart:

As you have seen there are a lot of track options out there. I have always used sectional (332) brass track (LGB and Aristo), I prefer LGB 18000 series switches over the Aristo switches. My layout is not that large and I bought my track many years ago when I didn't have to pawn my first born. My mainline is about 90' and my total track is on the order of 150', if you include sidings and yard. Your choice will probably depend on the size of the layout you are planning to construct. If it is going to be small go for sectional, but if you are planning an empire, go with flex track. Code 250 works very well, I don't have any, but I run on a layout using it. If you go to flex track you will need to get a rail bender. Here in the USA, it may cost several hundred dollars. You will need to factor that into your overall cost for track.

Chuck


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

When buying code 332 track, you can use rail, ties and joiners/clamps all from different manufacturers. 

The longer the ail, the less clamps needed and for track power, less connections that can go bad. 

Plastic ties come in European and American styles, however most switches have the European style ties. 

Then there is the color of the ties. Train-Li has a big selection including red, white, blue, green, pink, grey, black, brown and these are in concrete American style.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Is that strictly true Dan, or are there some exceptions? I noticed that the profile of the Aristo SS rail was very different from their brass. 

I know some of the tie strips by other manufacturers (like Llagas or SVRR) can be "tight"... 

I agree in general with your statement, though... 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The Train-Li tie strips will also be a little snug for fitting brass rail or SS to them. Later RJD


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

I make my own track. This is actually quite common amoungst the people running Gauge '3' Equipment. There are two tried and tested track systems. One uses wood sleepers with white metal chairs and Brass rail -this has been around for several decades and seems to have to greatest longevity... Modern track work uses Stainless Steel and thread on moulded plastic sleepers -like beads on a wire. Both types of rail have the same bullhead profile and are "code 250". I chose to use wood sleepers with white metal chairs and Brass rail -because I fealt this was more in keeping with what it was that I wanted to produce as an end result. A garden railway in the classical 1920's manner and method. 

Either Brass or Stainless Steel are suitable materials for rail in any conditions. I would advise against Aluminium rail if you live in a coastal area as salt will attack it. Brass is easiest to "soft" solder too, Stainless Steel will require an active fluxing agent for soldering, Aluminium is very difficult to solder and the fluxes you would have to use are really quite nasty to the skin... What I have seen used quite successfully is a heavy copper wire running alongside the track to which the individual sections of track are bonded. This allows the current to pass along a very good conductor and makes problem connections more easy to identify. 

regards 

ralph


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

stu30
the above posts are great advice
howver
i am assuming you are starting

-first if you plan on builindg a permanant layout-wide radius curves offer a better option-better look to the trains-more trains will be able to run as some will not tolerate 4 or 5 ft diameter curves
i think, for the long run, LGB R3-(1600) 8 diameter-are the minimal
they take more space , and switches are more expensive-BUT-you will have smoother operation and your trains will look better

and R3 is actually a rather tight curve in the scheme of outdoor railroads


that being said

for many years i had a great deal of fun and operation using 4 and 5 ft DIAMETER LGB track-the latter being preferable if you have the room
if you run small and short trains 4 ft willl work

from a strictly economical and pragmatic suggestion-there is a lot of 1100 radius LGB track for sale used-ie the 4' diameter-aka "R1"
it does not commnad the high prices of the more desirable wider radius track and you can have a boat load of fun never the less

this will depend on the size you have for the layout-and your budget-as well as the size of locos and trains you plan on buying-very small diesels and 0-4-0 engines dont look too silly on the small radius -nor do 2 axel cars-if you get a bit larger-say even an LGB mogul-5 ft (R2) is better-but both are still really tight-
what this means in terms of putting it down -is that it should be well laid-ie flat -long trains can topple on the tight curves-larger cars can also have issues with derailing-or simply not being able to use the tight curves

but -not everyone has big boys and live steam-or huge mainline styule equipment (and you MUST check what you buy -in temrs of engines and cars-usually the maker will indicate the radius requirement


as noted the 250 track looks wonderful
stainless doesnt oxidize and need the frequent cleaning of brass


the lgb 332 is very durable in terms of being stood upon, and repeatedly put together and taken apart-good for starting out and experimenting

i have had a great deal of simple fun running a starter LGB set on tight R1 (1100) curves with a few passing tracks and sidings-

otoh -there is much to be said for buying exactly what you will need in the long run -then your investment is fruitful
if you are a planner and have a grand scheme-the doing the track right the first time is the most econmical

( over the years i have collected a bunch of track-at low cost even new-all LGB with some old REA/Aristo-now with current prices id be very careful about wantonly buying new track-) 


you may find too that you may have a small inside layout in adition and then the smaller stuff can serve a purpose too-it does now for me

LGB track is quite robust and it is strictly on that point i recommend it-even used its difficult to find track that cannot be put right-
the aristo track i have had, which is rather old -has held up oorly in the COlorado sun-the ties become brittle-not so LGB

LGB track is big and clunky-but darkens and looks less clunky when ballasted right to the tops of the ties-still not like 250-which looks much closer to real track-yes it makes a difference-but its all about your priorities-and tolerance for approzimate versus reallly close-

i offer this not as the BEST in terms of scale or long term-but as the BEST simple solution to get started IMHO-the stuff is plentiiful on ebay and swaps, and elsewhere


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10 Jun 2011 08:32 AM 
Is that strictly true Dan, or are there some exceptions? I noticed that the profile of the Aristo SS rail was very different from their brass. 

I know some of the tie strips by other manufacturers (like Llagas or SVRR) can be "tight"... 

I agree in general with your statement, though... 

Regards, Greg 

True, it is a mixture of "it depends". 

Having used four brands of clamps and four brands of track, you have some better mix and match options than others. The Uncle Herm clamps do not do that great on mixed joints as they are both solid bits, where a screw type clamp like Trainline45 or Aristo or a split clamp like Split Jaw is better for example. Also Accucraft's 332 is a tad larger than LGB, Trainline45 and Aristo, but Aristo's thickness is different.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Stu: 


Steve's post remineded me of somethings I should have mentioned earlier. Use the largest radius curves that your space will allow. My other recommendation to beginners is to make your passing sidings 50% longer than the longest train you think that you will be running. Your trains will get longer with time. My curves are Aristo wide radius (5' radius). I wish they were wider, but at the time that was the largest diameter available in sectional. Now there is sectional up to 20' diameter.


Chuck


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I can not add to this I use brass rail and do not use Track power.

What I would like you to do is tell is what you decide to use.

Post pictures of your progress.

I agree with chuck about sidings.

Also put in a lot of sidings. Makes your layout more interesting.

One can never have too many sidings.









JJ


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## stu30 (Jun 5, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice. I am still thinking of what to do stay with n scale or go into the outdoors. I am getting as much information now which will help make my mind up. Also it is still going to be about 12-18 months before I make a start which ever way I go. We are selling the house and them got to find a new one and unsure with state in Australia we want to live. I think I would go with the LGB track. The quite robust sounds good to me as it gets hot. Unsure to what trains I would run but I think steam as n scale doesnt have too many steamers that stay on the track and that excellent.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Be sure to look at Greg Hunters site in Australia as he has a lot of cost cutting info on how he built his RR. Many down under buy track as a bulk club purchase due to the huge shipping costs.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

fwiw i also model in n scale- 
it offers something different to g- 
obviously longer trains and a greater wealth of choices-especially length of trains 

however, i find the larger stuff more satisfying-especially for play value-yes thats what i said-for putting together details and scenes and the like-can do the same with n and have-minute details-but g-its simply bigger and the details have greater presence 

i don think its an either or thing-until you want both n and g in the basement-then things begin to get a little tight and dicey with the wife


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I do Z and G... even longer trains in Z! (we quite often run 100 car trains at shows on our modular setups)... I have 9' of modules in the garage, so I have almost 2 scale miles of track in 9' x 2'... of course it does not have the same "wow" factor, but long trains are a lot easier. 

Greg


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## cabinetman (Feb 20, 2014)

is the AML Brass #332 compatible with LGB switches?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Yes, we suggest using rail clamps between track and switch, makes it easier to remove for maintenance. Split jaw and Hilmans are popular (brands of clamps) there are others too.

John


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Look at the Train-Li clamps as the screws (only 2) are vertical and easy to get to at the double track end of the switch.


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## iaviksfan (Dec 27, 2007)

stu30 said:


> Thanks for all the advice. I am still thinking of what to do stay with n scale or go into the outdoors. I am getting as much information now which will help make my mind up. Also it is still going to be about 12-18 months before I make a start which ever way I go. We are selling the house and them got to find a new one and unsure with state in Australia we want to live. I think I would go with the LGB track. The quite robust sounds good to me as it gets hot. Unsure to what trains I would run but I think steam as n scale doesnt have too many steamers that stay on the track and that excellent.


I would stay in both scales.... And just wondering if these are current dates that are showing up.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Greg, 
Cabinetman revived an old thread, I answered without the usual scold...

John


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Totalwrecker said:


> Greg,
> Cabinetman revived an old thread, I answered without the usual scold...
> 
> John


You going soft on us John?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Yeah, said Pooh sheepishly....


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## honeybooboo (Jan 10, 2014)

Dan Pierce said:


> Look at the Train-Li clamps as the screws (only 2) are vertical and easy to get to at the double track end of the switch.





I prefer these as well, Easy to use, Sturdy and very cost effective.
I stopped using the others cause I got tired of bending down on my side to see those darn Hex heads.

Boo


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