# MIG Welder...what to get???



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm doing some research on possibly buying a small MIG welder to do some bridge making for my GRR. I have never welded...just have watched others weld. Doesn't look too hard. How-some-ever...it appears to me that perhaps the "ease" I saw might have had something to do with the MIG welder unit being used...and of course the skill of the user. 



So...what are the features of the welder I need to understand? Here are some limitations I have...and some questions. Any help would be appreciated.

a. Must be a 120v single phase machine...drawing 15 amps or less. I have 20 amp/110v service in my shop. I really DON'T want to bring in 220v service...unless I really need to. Even then...it would be 20a/220v service.


b. Smaller is good...I'm running outta space to store tools.

c. For bridges made from thin steel tubing and flat banded steel...what size wire do I need to use.... 0.023", 0.030", or .0.035"


d. I see than many of the inexpensive welders have a low or high amperage setting...is this sufficient for bridge making...or do you need a welder with more control over the output current?


e. While I've learned that Miller and Lincoln make great MIG welders...they come with an unaffordable price IMHO...especially for the use I'm contemplating. I looking at HarborFreight. Anybody have AND use on their Chicago Electric chinese rigs? How does it work? Any other brand recommendations?


f. I do NOT want to use gas. I've pretty much decided to use the flue core approach. Are there any drawbacks to this decision?


g. How long do the copper tips on the torch end last? I've see that they are replaceable...and sized for different wire types.


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## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

Years ago I bought a Lincoln SP 100 with the gas attachments. But just about all the work I have done with it was using flux core wire. Did not use gas very much at all.
The welds with gas are cleaner but wind is a problem is you are out doors


These small welders won't weld anything thick. maybe 12 gauge max, I don't remember. But there is not enough heat for penetrating thicker steel. A small spot welder may be the way to go on small stuff.


I would say buy a small cheap one without the gas or a 220 volt expensive one


Practice on scrap, with mine you have fine tune the heat and wire speed.


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## SCSteamer (Jul 24, 2009)

Our local technical college has a short evening course (4 or 6 evenings, 4 hr per evening) on welding, for $65. You need to bring gloves, and basic welder tools. I haven't yet taken it, but feel it would be a great way to get some training, and find out from an experienced welder which unit would be the best for my specific needs.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

I have a Lincoln MIG PAK 10. It's rated for 1/4" steel. That may be pushing it, but it definitely will weld well above 12 ga (.105") steel - I've used it on 1/8" and 3/16". I don't have the gas set-up for it, but wish I did - the flux-core wire spatters a lot. But I don't use it enough to justify spending the money on the gas rig. I bought the welder used at a good price. I've never measured the wire, but I suspect it is the .025" like that included with this set: http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/lek6923.html

Using a wire-feed welder definitely takes some practice. I'd done a little stick welding and a fair bit of brazing and gas welding, but my wire-feed welds still look like crap. When I first got the unit, I bought a bunch of scrap steel at the salvage yard and practiced on that, and got to where I could get a strong and decent-looking weld, but I don't use it often enough and I'm out of practice when the need re-arises. But it's handing to have around. I've used it to re-weld the hub on a wheelbarrow wheel, and rebuilt my hand truck with larger (salvaged) pneumatic tires that required a new axle, for example.

Mike, I sent you a PM.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the offer Jim....I'll probably take you up on that. Tell me more about splatter from the flux rod. If I were to do true MIG welding with gas, does that mean I avoid splatter...and a lot of grinding?


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I have only used stick & gas welders. I suspect that using flux wire is somewhat like stick welding. You get flux alll over your welds and have to chip it off. The necessity fro grinding is based on your skill welding. Where I have a problem us with welding thin metal. Thick tubing and things like that are not much of a problem for me.

I took an adult school class and it was great. They teach you the basics then, it's up to you to practice.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 30 Jul 2009 03:29 PM 
Thanks for the offer Jim....I'll probably take you up on that. Tell me more about splatter from the flux rod. If I were to do true MIG welding with gas, does that mean I avoid splatter...and a lot of grinding? 
The spatter with flux-core wire isn't as bad as that you get from flux-coated rod in stick welding, but that is probably due to the amount of material involved in the process. It shows up as little blobs, or dots, on the surface, as if you sprinkled it with steel nonpareils. You can scrape most of them off with a sharp chisel. I believe the gas reduces the spatter - haven't tried it myself, but a friend of mine does a lot MIG welding, and the end result looks really good. He may have cleaned it up before I saw it.

On the scale of work you're talking about, I wouldn't think of it as grinding per se, more like coarse sanding (32-80 grit), like auto-body prep work. There are a lot of cool modern abrasive tools that can be used. I like the abrasive mesh disks ("hamburgers"). They come in a variety of sizes, with quick-change mounts to a mandrel that can be chucked in a high-speed drill or, better, a air motor. Tool Mart on Nordahl has a good selection, as does North County Abrasives.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Mike,
I think you will be really glad you decided to get a welder. They are really handy to have around. I use mine a lot more than I would have imagined.
As far as brands go, I agree that for your use, a cheaper model would be fine. I also think it would be a good idea to take a beginning welding class. It will save hours of experimenting by yourself (take my word for it) amd give a you a better idea of what you want. 
MIG welding looks a LOT better and cleaner than flux welding, so if you can do it, I would really try to go MIG. The bridges I plan to weld will have fairly small steel involved, which will emphasize even more a clean weld.
I bought a Century welder from Farm & FLeet (probably not in your area







), but not an expensive machine. It has done very well for me up to 3/16" and down to 22 ga.

Good luck, and keep us up to date!
Matt


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The Mig Welder I got I got from Home Depot. It was around 250 bucks but the one I got was on sale. I too didn not know how to weld but with a little practice and smome help form guys here on MLS I mastered it. My through truss bridge made from 3/4 squar tubing has some Ugly welds on it but it's been out there in the yard for over 5 years or more. It is a lot easier than stick. More like Soldering. Mine is 110 but on a 20 amp breaker and has # 10 Wire to the outlet. I do trip that breaker when I stick the wire to what I am welding at High Curent . If you have to use a extention cord get the largest wire in the cord you can find. 12 is good 10 is better, 


Everything I weld I use .035 wire. Get a bunch of the copper end's/tips The little things that the wire passes through at the tip of the gun.

I have three 4.5 inch 90 degree griders for clening up the parts you are about to join. I also have a large wire bruch that fits in my Drill. The helps too.


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, 
The HD100 Lincoln welder in 110V is what I have, and I have the argon/Co2 gas backup system for MIG welding. 
The flux core wire will splatter on you, and the MIG (gas backup) method gives you a much cleaner result. 
Cost can be an issue (bottle and regulator stuff for MIG), so if you're set on flux core, figure on buying a 4.5" angle grinder to clean that splatter off. At medium to higher ampreage welding, it seems that the splatter has more "bite", and adheres to the parent metal (project) well enough that sandpaper is not the best method for cleaning up. 
Gas pressure needs to be just enough to shield the weld, but not so much that you're exhausting a tank to quickly. 
While MIG is somewhat difficult out in the open, changing back over from MIG to flux core is also a mechanical chore. 
If you're going to do all your welding in the garage, I'd stay with MIG. 
All the bridges here on the SDRR were fabricated with that little HD100...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Mike 
Take a look at this thread. In the first picture you can see the one of the two bridges I built they are 10 FT long. I built them when I first got my welder. 
You can see some of my ugly welds. 


http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/9/aft/111512/afv/topic/Default.aspx


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## imrnjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a Century 90 amp, and a Craftsman 110 amp w/Argon gas. I got both used for a a $150 and $125 at different times. The Century has a duty cycle of about 20% and the Craftsman (don't know who the underlying manufacturer is) about 15-20%. I generally run them off a 20 amp circuit and can still pop a breaker occasionally. 

Another thing you'll want look at on the machine you buy is duty cycle. What that means is how long the unit will operate at peak amperage before it shuts itself down to cool off. My Century will work 12 to 18 minutes of nearly continuous welding before it trips its internal breaker. The craftsman about 15-20. It's a heat management thing, and a real pain if your trying to get something big done fast. However higher percentage duty cycles come with very big price tags. 

As others have said the cleanest welds come with the gas, but there are things you can do to reduce splatter from flux core wire. I use a spray that I coat areas near the weld site and it works 85-90% of the time. There are several on the market, but then one I use is from the big box store. 

I generally use .030 inch mig wire and .035 inch flux core wire. I find that they handle the broadest range of thickness and truly let me get a good weld in a shorter time so I get less heating (warp and twist) in lighter stock and fewer passes on heavier stock. I don't do a lot of continous beads on thin stock to minimize heating and burn thru(blowing holes in the material), lots of short or spot welds eventually blended into a continuous bead. I also back thin stock with a copper sheet or rod to minimize burn thru. 

If you really know how to weld, joining much heavier materials (1/4"+) is very possible with a wire welder. I recently broke the upper lift arms on a leased 955 track loader (a 40k pound machine). They were solid cold rolled steel rods 2 1/4 inch thick. To repair them I got 2 1/2" CR steel replacements and took the old arms over to a certified welder who then cut off the pin eyes, beveled the newrods and eyes and welded them together. He did the welding with a Miller 250 utilizing .035 wire in about 4 passes. When he was finished it looked just like a 5/32" stick weld. He welds High pressure gas pipe fittings that get x-rayed for quality the same way. 

I don't know anyone who has one of the HF light wire welders but the Lincoln, Century, Craftsman units I've used will all do what you want to do. Most will allow the use of wire up to .035, and most will have gas capability either as an add on or at the larger amp ratings included. 

Good luck with the purchase. 

Mark


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Once you get the hang of it you will be making Mrs Mike New plat stands, The a new decortive front gate, Security Door,. towl racks for the mens room, 
The list can go on.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 31 Jul 2009 04:05 PM 
Once you get the hang of it you will be making Mrs Mike New plat stands, The a new decortive front gate, Security Door,. towl racks for the mens room, 
The list can go on. 
You don't understand... The reason for the Harbor Freight preference...is so that it fails at the exact moment that the last part of a bridge is welded....


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 31 Jul 2009 11:06 PM 
Posted By John J on 31 Jul 2009 04:05 PM 
Once you get the hang of it you will be making Mrs Mike New plat stands, The a new decortive front gate, Security Door,. towl racks for the mens room, 
The list can go on. 
You don't understand... The reason for the Harbor Freight preference...is so that it fails at the exact moment that the last part of a bridge is welded.... 
Wrong.
It will fail just before you complete the third of four sections of the bridge assembly, leaving your project unfinished and gathering dust & rust for months on end.
If you intend to execute your projects well, purchase the proper tools.
If you only wish to "get by", buy the lowest price crap you can find.
However it works out for ya, we ain't gonna want to hear about any trials and tribulations that are blamed upon your equipment...


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I hear ya Duncan. Harbor Freight does have one, big saving grace when thinking of buying a tool for such a project...that being a 90 day long replacement warranty that comes with any tool your buy...and an extra expense one year warranty you can purchase. I'm pretty sure I can get er done in 90 days. 


Were talking about a 4 to 1 difference in price too...around $500 (and up) vs $130. Even if you add in all the other stuff you need (helmet, clamps, extra tips, etc.)...the ratio is still 3 to 1 for a Lincoln or Miller vs HF. 


I've lived all my life without a welder...and I'm pretty sure I can live the rest of it without a welder. So....this is one tool that I really only need for one task. For me, this is kinda like your signature line..."skidding in broadside"...at the end of this project.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Doesnt Poor Equipment and Poor purchaser cancle each other out? I thought I read that some where.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 01 Aug 2009 11:16 AM 
Doesnt Poor Equipment and Poor purchaser cancle each other out? I thought I read that some where. 

Not too sure about that, but I do know it increases the available excuses a whole lot!


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Mike
As a steel fabricator that owns 11 welders, 8 of them Millers and 2 lincolns and one ? can't remember, I have enjoyed reading the comments you have gotten, agree with almost everything. With a smaller welder running on 120 volt and welding thinner material, the .025 wire will serve you better, Just think about this way, it takes less heat to burn the smaller wire than the big, thus giving you a weld that will lay down smoother and stronger. The bigger must be better does not apply with small welders and thinner material. When We weld thin material WE always go to the welder with the .025 wire.(a large welder though) you will consume the same amount of weight of welding wire, and will take a few more seconds longer to weld the same distance, but I don"t think that is an issue. Flux core will produce a very clean weld after you chip away the slag, and yes use the spray or anti spatter, some of it is great and some is as worthless as tits on a tom cat. 
I highly recomend a class or hire a welder to give you some instruction. If you can learn to weld on a larger welder it will be easier for you to drop down in size after you know what you are doing as to learn totally on the small welder. 
We use totally flap wheels on all of our angle grinders 4-1/2", we have one 7 inch grinder with a grinding wheel, can hardly find it, almost never is used. 40 grit with Zirconium aggregate will sand smooth alot of welds. 
If this is a one time job, why not rent a welder or hire a student from a welding class to do it for you. How big a bridge are you going to build?
Dennis


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## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

From what I have read on the net the chinese welders and plasma cutters don't put out as much as they claim. With that in mind you could just get one a little larger than what is needed if you go with a chinese one. 

Johnny


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By denray on 01 Aug 2009 07:20 PM 
Mike
As a steel fabricator that owns 11 welders, 8 of them Millers and 2 lincolns and one ? can't remember, I have enjoyed reading the comments you have gotten, agree with almost everything. With a smaller welder running on 120 volt and welding thinner material, the .025 wire will serve you better, Just think about this way, it takes less heat to burn the smaller wire than the big, thus giving you a weld that will lay down smoother and stronger. The bigger must be better does not apply with small welders and thinner material. When We weld thin material WE always go to the welder with the .025 wire.(a large welder though) you will consume the same amount of weight of welding wire, and will take a few more seconds longer to weld the same distance, but I don"t think that is an issue. Flux core will produce a very clean weld after you chip away the slag, and yes use the spray or anti spatter, some of it is great and some is as worthless as tits on a tom cat. 
I highly recomend a class or hire a welder to give you some instruction. If you can learn to weld on a larger welder it will be easier for you to drop down in size after you know what you are doing as to learn totally on the small welder. 
We use totally flap wheels on all of our angle grinders 4-1/2", we have one 7 inch grinder with a grinding wheel, can hardly find it, almost never is used. 40 grit with Zirconium aggregate will sand smooth alot of welds. 
If this is a one time job, why not rent a welder or hire a student from a welding class to do it for you. How big a bridge are you going to build?
Dennis

Thank you....lotsa good info and ideas here. I had the same sense on the wire size..that smaller was better. The steel I'm going to use is 1/2" square tubing that is .065" thick...easy for a burn through. Can you tell me what a good brand of the anti-splatter spray is or where to buy it?


Question...what is a flap wheel? Is that one of those abrasive wheels that has 1/2" x 1" sand paper like flaps attached to a hub on a rotary tool?


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Belay my last...found out what a flap wheel is.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

http://www.labsafety.com/search/Norton/24527133/?type=brand

I want to clear up the air of what I was refering to when I said flap wheels, the site above will show a picture of what we use. We do not buy from this company, can't say anything about them. i have seen them at Harbor freight. 
I will have to look at which anti spatter spray we use. 
Good luck 
Dennis


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Dennis:
Did you get a chance to check on the brand of the good anti-spatter spray?


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Anti Splatter Spray? What do you mean by that? How do you use it. Where do you spray it?


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By John J on 20 Aug 2009 05:32 PM 
Anti Splatter Spray? What do you mean by that? How do you use it. Where do you spray it? 

Read imrnjr's and denray's posts above in this thread.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

John 
Spray where the weld will be and the area around the weld will be covered enough to prevent the splatter from sticking to the area. 
Dennis


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 20 Aug 2009 05:32 PM 
Anti Splatter Spray? What do you mean by that? How do you use it. Where do you spray it? 


Depends on who you're with...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Ok Tig or Mig Which one uses Gas of some sorts? Does the Gas stop Splatter? Is it worth converting?


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## gtrainman (Jan 5, 2008)

Quick answers,

Ok Tig or Mig Which one uses Gas of some sorts? 
(BOTH)

Does the Gas stop Splatter?
(IT HELPS)


Is it worth converting?
(DEPENDS ON YOUR PROJECT)


VISIT - MILLERWELDS.COM 
Their site is loaded with info. All you need to do is read.
Hope this helps!


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## imrnjr (Jan 2, 2008)

To be honest I only use the gas on stainless steel, and aluminum projects, they are expensive base materials and Aluminum really requires it, and it really takes a lot of time to repolish or clean them well. I use flux core on almost everything else. Some wire brush/wheel or a flapwheel work to clean up the slag and splatter, some primer and good paint will give even my worst looking weld a bit of class.









Good luck with the purchase and your projects.

Mark


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

MIG metal inert gas 
TIG tungsten inert gas 
Gas does reduce splatter, not prevent though, 
anti splatter spray is an aresol or from squirt bottle and just spray the area you are going to weld, most of the splatter will just brush off with wire brush. 
Dennis


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## MasonsDad (Feb 7, 2008)

Hiya Mike, I have a Clarke en180 mig and man has it done the job , it comes ready run already had the Gas/ no Gas set up good up to 3/8" multiple pass welds 120volt, 15amp does a great job, I run .023 hard wire with mix gas and for what I do it works out great, mine came with a cart that is really heavy duty too. I bought mine thru Northern tool however they no longer carry that type but you can find them all the time on ebay, and best of all after doing the reasearch I also found they are a Miller knock off not Clone but knock off meaning they are built by Miller and sold with the Clarke name, like what GE and Maytag do with thier appliances. good luck


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

GE and Matag do that? I am appauled.


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## 3lphill (Feb 22, 2008)

Good morning, 
Given that my welding is horrid, I am responsible for buying supples for 3 tig sincro waves, 4 mig units and, 2 mig push pull units and 2 plasmas. As Mike is probably aware it is not the machines chat cost but the consumables. We use Crest and Joukum(?) brand anti spatter spray and Klingsbourgh or Pearl 60 or 80 grit reinforced fiber discs for clean up. Used units are worth shopping for as are auctions if you want to get a industrial unit. Sometimes the welding supply shops may know when shops are upgrading, this can be a way to get a deal. 

Phillip


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