# C-19 Lights not working with Aristo Revolution



## FlyingL6440 (May 26, 2013)

I recently purchased a Bachmann C-19 and installed an Aristocraft Revolution RX along with a battery in the tender. I get power to the motor and it runs like a dream, however, none of the lights work. I was under thre impression that the Revolution was basicly plug & play. Is this not the case? Has anyone else run into this problem? Is there some sort of special wiring that is required to get the lights to work with the Revolution or is it possible that there is something wrong with my C-19?

Thanks in advance.

Howard


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Normal problem. You need to jumper the connections on the main PC board from the power to the Revo to the "Ground" and "B+" terminals. The solder pads are all on the side of the socket board in the tender. You can run the wires either from the screw terminal on the back where the battery connects, or from the "Right W" and "Left W" connections. Make sure you get the polarity correct, so the positive voltage goes to B+. If you're using track power, use a bridge rectifier. Put the power in to the input side of the rectifier, and the output (+ and -) to the B+ and Ground respectively. 

You'll know you've got it right because you'll hear the internal cooling fan spin up and the lights come on. This should also power the electronic chuff sensor, but I haven't confirmed that. (I accidentally nuked mine while figuring out this procedure to get power forward to the locomotive after installing the Revo in mine.) I've heard some people say they don't have to do this with their Revolution boards. You can't argue with success, but I don't know if they're using a different revision of the Revolution (say that one 10 times fast) or what's going on. If it's not working for you, it's at least perfectly normal and there's an easy workaround.

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

just to completely understand, you are feeding power from the revo to the Bachmann board? 

I read your post 3 times, and just was not sure. 

How about a diagram kevin? 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

You're feeding power from the battery directly to the B+ and GND wires running to the locomotives, essentially by-passing the Revolution board. The Revolution board does not feed pins 6 and 7 on the "socket," which is what feeds voltage forward to the electronics on the locomotive. So you're using the solder pads that are along the side of the C-19 board to make that connection instead. 

No photos, but if you see the socket PC board, there's a long row of clearly-labeled solder pads along the side of it that's designed to make it easy to install 3rd-party non-PNP electronics. It's pretty self-explanatory once you see the board. I've had to do that on the K-27 board as well. I'd bet other B'mann locos are similar, but I've not had the opportunity to install a Revo in them. 

Later, 

K


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## FlyingL6440 (May 26, 2013)

Thanks for the work around, Kevin. I will give it a try later today or tomorrrow and post my results. 

Howard


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting. Does this feeding to the main Bachmann board put power to pins 6 and 7 in the socket? 

I would think that at least the common would have to connect for the revolution to switch pins 4 and 9 for the lights, i.e. pull them to ground... or possibly the ground in the revolution might find a path through the full wave bridge on the "track inputs"... 

What a mess. (Aristo) 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Interesting. Does this feeding to the main Bachmann board put power to pins 6 and 7 in the socket? 
I would presume so, given that those wires feed to those pins on the socket. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Strange, the decoder is supposed to supply those pins, according to the Aristo standard. 

I first noticed this when one of the Aristo "sockets" had 2 extra diodes to "provide" power to the common (positive)... 

Oh well, thanks for the confirmation. 

I hope people realize that this issue seems to only be with the Aristo Revolution, all other decoders that "fit" the socket also follow the Aristo standard by SUPPLYING power and ground to these pins. It could cause damage to a decoder that follows the Aristo standard. 

Thanks for the information Kevin... 

Regards, Greg


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## FlyingL6440 (May 26, 2013)

Well, I did as kevin suggested and everything works as advertised now. First time I ever solder anything so I am quite happy with the results. 

Thank you Kevin. 

Howard


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I have had similar problems with a Digitrax decoder, in Bachman sockets.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe that is the issue from day one, where Digitrax misinterpreted the meaning of the pins in the Aristo socket, and in frustration, gave up and cut the pins off. (originally they told you to bend the pins up so they did not go into the socket) The Digitrax correctly "generates" rectified track voltage and ground, but they just never overcame some of the implementations of the Aristo socket . Other decoder manufactures have overcome this issue. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I still believe that Digitrax had a hand in the design of the original socket layout for AristoCraft who then ballsed it up in the implementation. In the meantime Digitrax had already started designing their DCC decoders to suit the socket layout they themselves had had a hand in designing. 
I can list a number of instances where AC have got loco and socket wiring wrong over the years. 
Can anyone cite an instance where Digitrax have got DCC decoder pin wiring wrong. I doubt it. 

It seems to me the problem with the sound REVOLUTION is that there is either no connection to pin # J1-6 from the + supply on the Bridge Rectifier on the RX pcb, and/or no - connection on pin # J1-7. That would explain why the sound REVOLUTION does not work properly in the K-27 either. 
Should be easy enough for someone to check the traces on the sound REVOLUTION pcb.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I can cite one case, a fundamental one.... Aristo made the socket, so whatever Digitrax helped with... the implementation belonged to Aristo. 

The "smoke control" pins were only defined as "connect these 2 pins and the smoke unit will be powered" .... but manufacturers "found" that one of the pins had "power", i.e. rectified track voltage... and tried to use it. 

So Aristo was following THEIR specification... Others tried to "deduce" other uses/meanings... and to be fair, Aristo was not "bound" by their "deductions".... although it was foolish to keep changing it in my opinion. 

Now I'm only talking about the "smoke power" pins... using the other pins on the other connector... well that is indeed a mess... 

So, to be fair the "Digitrax fiasco" was not really Aristo's "fault" and is not this issue on this thread... the other pins, not supplying power and ground, that is INDEED Aristo violating their OWN standard... that IS a mess! 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 29 May 2013 09:55 AM 
SNIP
So, to be fair the "Digitrax fiasco" was not really Aristo's "fault" and is not this issue on this thread... SNIP


Greg 


So why did you[/b] raise the subject three posts above?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Because FOUR posts above Mike brought it up (actually now five right) !!! Why didn't you ask him? 

Mike said a similar problem... but the "famous" Digitrax problem is something completely different.... (but maybe Mike was referring to lighting)..

There's a lot of misinformation out there about this socket... and it's important if you want to understand that not all problems are the same problem... especially if you want to deal with the problems. 

Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

First, Greg, What decoder plugs into this socket except a QSI.


I did have lighting problems with a Bachman K-27. As I remember the head lite did work. The cab or the markers did not.


Air Wire just came out with a plug adapter for Aristo only. Al says that they will do another one for Bachman. I have used a similar product first made by Tony.


I would just like to see this mess standardized, It would help the hobby.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 29 May 2013 08:37 PM 
First, Greg, What decoder plugs into this socket except a QSI.


I did have lighting problems with a Bachman K-27. As I remember the head lite did work. The cab or the markers did not.


Air Wire just came out with a plug adapter for Aristo only. Al says that they will do another one for Bachman. I have used a similar product first made by Tony.


I would just like to see this mess standardized, It would help the hobby.


I would love to see an adapter board made...They would sell a ton of 'em! I'd buy a few just to have on hand. Would solve the OP's problem and many others as well. Seems like a winner, wonder why no one has done one yet?


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

I think thats been done 

http://www.cordlessrenovations.com/?page_id=5879 

http://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/pro-pnp



Alan


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I have designed an adaptor board that plugs into a PnP socket for use with non PnP ESC's similar to the one being offered by CVP. 
The difference will be mine also enables an RCS or AirWire RX, for example, to run off constant voltage on the track via screw terminals on the adaptor pcb. 
It is second in the line of my "to do" items after the plug in 3 amp booster for my OMEGA-3 ESC to make that into a 6 amp ESC. 
I want to run down the stocks of my current PnP ESC a bit first. I will probably have the adaptor ready towards the end of the year. Maybe sooner if I got enough demand.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan that CR item is an adaptor board for using a PnP decoder in a non PnP loco. 
The RCS PnP ESC is a complete PnP decoder like the REVOLUTION for example.

What Mike is referring to is the need for a reverse adaptor board that would allow an easy connection of non PnP ESC's into a socketed loco. The adaptor board plugs into the socket and the non PnP ESC is connected to it.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Tony, oops! my bad! Thanks for clearing that up. 

Alan


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

I may have also miss-understood. I was thinking of board that would plug into the Bachmann board allowing you to plug in the Revo receiver restoring all functions without the need for jumpers. I would think either Bachmann or Aristo could make a couple of bucks selling them, then again I have no idea what the market size is.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

You should put that proposal to Aristo. They would be interested. Cracking good idea to get the consumer to buy another part to fix the problem.


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