# point to point pros & cons



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

As I consider my layout, I wonder about point to point? I dont get it? I guess it breaks down to back and forth vs round and round?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

It is good for a trolley, or in my case I used it to move coal cars back and forth from a mine to a coaling tower. Unfortunately, I only have the coaling tower and the mine is imaginary.



Chuck


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If you put a multitrack switch yard at each end you can have fun making up a train to take to the other end to dissassemble and re-assemble to bring back.


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

It's mainly about operations. If you enjoy way freight switching ops as opposed to swaying in the hammock with a mint julip as the trains go round and round then it may be for you. Admittedly it's not for everyone. Access is crucial in order to throw switches and drop off & pick up cars comfortably. 

Upon completion the POC will be roughly 240' in length and a round trip of a single train will easily take an hour or more, more likely a couple of hours. When Bruce was here we took 4 hours to complete the work with making up the train, delivering & picking up cars and return and putting away cars and leaving engine at roundhouse. If one or two other operators work the line simultaneously with the resulting meets enroute the ops can get very interesting. 

There are also variations in theme. For example you could model a terminal line that moves both freight cars from industries to intermediate yards as well as passenger cars from a union depot to a storage/cleaning yard where cars are cleaned, changed, diners restocked and new consists made up. All such moves could be made with switch engines (either diesel, steam or electric). 

The POC is a lumber hauling short line that also because of its common carrier status handles general freight such as livestock, seafood products, produce, farm machinery, general merchandise as well as supplies & machinery for the lumber mill itself. 

A traction line is also ideal for point to point especially if in addition to trolley ops a bit of freight traffic is also handled maybe by an electric freight loco. 

You can of course combine a roundy round loop with a point to point merely by putting all the industry switching along one easily accessible portion of the trackage while leaving the remainder of the loop free of switching. 

If you like really long trains or mainline running then you'll probably not want to go point to point as its forte' is intensive ops, not for watching long heavy/fast trains go by. Just think about what you really like most and the choice isn't hard.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I considered a point to point when I did some renovations to my garden railway about seven years ago. I wound up with a point to point but with reversing loops at each end. I do have three point to point lines in my garden railway for routes. I still prefer to just sit back and let them run automatically. Still, someday, I hope to build a true point to point for operation indoors.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Think of the Durango and Silverton. It is a point to point RR. No doubt about it.

What makes a point to point RR great is the Distance between the two points. The more Distance you can have the better the RR.

Not only can you do things at each end but in the middle too. 

Hooterville and Pettiecoat Junction.

JJ


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ, you make a good point and actually have me considering a very long point to point. I can see the grand kids sending stuff back and forth to each other on the train.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Many years ago I did a long point to point, modeled after some European narrow (and standard) gauge lines. I had a long passing siding at each end and an LGB spring uncoupler at the end before the last switch. All the cars and engines were LGB with hook and loop couplers. The switches were spring switches so they would always return to the set direction after the engine passed. I would bring the train in and uncouple it from the engine (stopping on the uncoupler and then pulling forward), pull the engine forward past the switch (set to return it past the train) go back to the main line and then go forward to pick up the train and then depart the station to the other end of the line. The process would be repeated when the train reached the other station. I tried to automate it, but wasn't successful.

Chuck


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I started out in Fall of 2009 with a simple loop around a 50-foot flower bed. In 2010 I added about 230 feet of track around the house, making it point-to-loop; a start track next to the loop leading to the front of the house and turning back to the flower bed. Around the bed and back to the front of the house, then back to the starting point. Seemed like what I wanted.

Then I found that it was tough to talk to the neighbors while a train was running, because it'd eventually get back to the starting point and I'd better be there to stop it. So I added ten feet of track that turned the layout into a simple, big loop when I wanted to just let a train run while talking. Come spring I'll be fleshing out a real switching yard, but I can turn it all into a simple loop and let a train or two run around in a big circle while I do some maintenance, converse, have an adult beverage, etc.

Best of both worlds!


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

My railroad has been a loop since I started it over 5 years ago. This fall just before Christmas I added a spur, that effectively made it a point to point with reversing loops at each end. For me there were two advantages this gave me when running operations: first it is more realistic since most "real" railroads are indeed point to point; second, by adding about 100' of track, I effectively increased the distance I travel from start and back to start by almost 500'.

I agree with others though, at times the loop is nice, so you don't have to pay as close attention to the train. By throwing two switches I can still go back to my original "loop". Like Jack said, it sort of gives one the best of both worlds. I'm happy with my arrangement for now.

Ed


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## dtetreault (Jan 23, 2008)

My layout is setup as loop to loop to loop. It works out well. I can do some switching or I can let the train run and have a few cold beverages.









Dennis


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Just to note that you can automate point to point layouts, both with track power and battery power. Most of the G-Scale Graphics controls have provisions for automated back'n forth operation with station stops in between.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

And that's why I love your stuff Del!! I just wish you had a small rc transmitter we could use like the RCS ones.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually you can do both. If properly set up you can consider a loop of track to be a point to point when you want it that way. 

For simplicity sake, lets consider a simple oval of track. On of the straight sides is set up as the town of Origins. Now you run around one end of the oval and reach the other side. This is set up as the town of Terminus. This is a point to point layout. 

However, the other end of the oval also connects the two towns. When operating each town considers this to be a connection to the ourside world. Simply push cars that are being transferred to other railroads into these tracks, and pull them out when they come back. This end is "hidden" by scenery (tunnel, cut, woods, etc.). You can even place a physical block to keep trains from using this end to bet from Origins to Terminus or the other way. 

When you want to have trains running, for an open house or just because you do not feel like making a breaking a train at each end, you can use this "hidden" connection to let the trains run continuously. 

You are of course not restricted to an oval, it was just an example. The hidden connection is all you need. 

Hope this helps.


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

My first layout was just a simple loop; it seemed like I always ran the train in the same direction. When it came time for a re-design, I wanted to insure that I had a method to change a train's direction. 


I went with a point to loop. Train #1 starts in the yard and I build the train there. The loop acts as my staging area; it contains a train already built (#2), and also acts as the terminus for the first train.During operations sessions, the green line is my interchange track - where foreign road cars enter and leave my layout. At other times, that becomes my "hidden" connection for continuous running. It's nice to have continuous running when you're breaking in a locomotive, or just don't want to get all the cars out for an operating session. 











An operations session typically consists of running two trains, one in each direction, each switching the industries along the way. It usually takes several hours to complete a session. Lots of fun.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

My interest is about 80% railroad operations and 20% watching trains run, which seems to put me in a small minority in the garden railroading world, but I know from experience that just watching trains go roundy-round gets boring for me REAL fast. That said, I know there will be times I'll want to have a train run continuously for entertainment or background ambiance while I'm working in the yard, so I've designed my layout as an overall "S" shape with a partially-hidden return loop at each end. For operation sessions, it will be treated as a point-to-point with the loop used to turn locomotives in lieu of taking up space with a turntable; for continuous running, the loops will be used with a spring switch setting the traffic direction. I'll be using battery power with wireless control, so reversing loops are a non-issue electrically. Appearance-wise, half of each loop will be hidden to help avoid the toy train look. 

I personally know of one loop-end branch line (I'm sure there are others): The Union Pacific line from Shoshone, Idaho to Sun Valley terminated in a loop in the valley. The line was used for ski special passenger trains to the resort (which the UP developed), and the loop was used to turn the trains. I can clearly recall seeing the loop when I was a kid in the 60s and 70s, but I suspect it is long gone now. 

Summary: 1) Which one is best for you all depends on your idea of garden railroading and what you want to do with your trains. and 2) It's not necessarily an either/or situation.


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