# AirWire Drop-Ins



## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

I touched on this subject before but it was some time ago and now that AirWire has the drop-ins for all but one of my engines - and what looks like a new and usable wireless throttle - I'm ready to write out a sizable check and do 8 of the 10 engines in one effort. But AirWire goes on and on about battery power as though there wasn't an alternative. And if there IS an alternative why should I put out another $1000.00 on batteries and chargers that I don't need?

I have about 250 feet of main line track. Indoors. With lots of track feeders. 

Here's what I want to do. I want to turn up my track power to (whatever battery voltage is recommended) and use the wheels to draw 'free' DC from my good quality supply. It's been suggested I insert a simple full wave rectifier between the rail pick-ups and the circuit board. Good Idea. I'll even put a capacitor across the in-put as well - if someone gives me a nominal value. 

Anyone done this? Any ideas? 


.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Adding a capacitor to bridge dirty track and insulated frogs has become pretty common with DCC. 
Basic principle is the same for your set up - you should look at a capacitor in the 50 000uf to 100 000uf range with a voltage rating a bit higher than your maximum track voltage. 
And you should add a small resistor to limit the charging current bypassed with a diode. 
Something along those lines was just discussed here on mls: 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/34/aft/120444/afv/topic/Default.aspx 

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You need a bridge rectifier to ensure the proper polarity to the AW board. If you are feeding DC to the rails, the cap is unnecessary, you are indoors with lots of feeders. 

Greg


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Long time to respond. Sorry

I was going to install a filter capacitor to eliminate any spikes that might get through the bridge. 

More important: Now that I have my T5000 throttle and the drop in for a SD70 + Phoenix sound card, the programming instructions that came with the model are a mess. After years of beating on the technical writers who made a world class screw up of Digitrax I find the AirWire three-fold brochure to be all mixed up. The last page and the first page (I think) are side by side and the other pages are all over the place - on both sides. And not even one page is numbered.

I'd kind of like to read these instructions, and learn to use the product, in some logical sequence. Can someone tell me what order they're supposed to be read in? 
Dave


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By dawinter on 26 Nov 2011 11:03 PM 

Long time to respond. Sorry

I was going to install a filter capacitor to eliminate any spikes that might get through the bridge. 

More important: Now that I have my T5000 throttle and the drop in for a SD70 + Phoenix sound card, the programming instructions that came with the model are a mess. After years of beating on the technical writers who made a world class screw up of Digitrax I find the AirWire three-fold brochure to be all mixed up. The last page and the first page (I think) are side by side and the other pages are all over the place - on both sides. And not even one page is numbered.

I'd kind of like to read these instructions, and learn to use the product, in some logical sequence. Can someone tell me what order they're supposed to be read in? 
Dave



Dave,

Go to the CVP website and click on documents for the T5000. User Guide. Go to the 900 series above that and take a look at the T9000 User Guide. More concise instructions for dealing with the CV numbers, which are NOT in the 5000 guide


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

The '50 000uf to 100 000uf range' capacitors seem kind'a big. Probably a typo. No? 

I have the new T5000 in hand right now and I think I have the think working. Course I won't know until I get the new board in the D 
SD70 and apply a little power. Before Christmas I hope. 

Thanks all


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I have converted 13 engines to track powered AirWire. I am using a 10,000 mfd capacitor across the bridge rectifier output.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By dawinter on 02 Dec 2011 05:15 PM 

The '50 000uf to 100 000uf range' capacitors seem kind'a big. Probably a typo. No? 


The size of the capacitor and also the type all depends what you are trying to accomplish.

Requirements come before solutions.

Since you already have DC on the track, no capacitor is needed to do the traditional filtering that a capacitor this size is used for in a power supply that converts AC to DC for instance.
The large value of capacitor I posted is intended to provide power to the controller and motor for a short while when you loose power from the track, either because the track is dirty, you're running across insulated frogs, whatever.

If that doesn't apply - ie your engine has lots of reliable pick ups, you use powered frogs, no dirt on the track, then you don't really need a capacitor at all.

As to spikes - an aluminum electrolytic will not filter out high frequency spikes (assuming that is even an issue), for that you need a capacitor that is effective at high frequencies but you only need a very small value.

That's why you often see a 0.1 uf capacitor in parallel with a large electrolytic in a good power supply design - one to filter the low frequency and the other for the high frequency spikes.

I would use whatever AirWire recommends unless there is some compelling reason to do otherwise, they know their product best.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

ditto what Knut said, a perfect and thorough answer. 

people even more paranoid of noise will put a 0.01 in parallel with the electrolytic cap and the 0.1 mfd cap... and put them near the (suspected) noise generation/input. 


Greg


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone install a drop-in kit AND a Phoenix card in the SD70? There would seem to be 4 wires (2 grn, 1 org and 1 gry) that, according to the instruction diagram page 23, plug into the drop-in but there is no 'plug' on the phoenix end. How did people attach these leads? Wondering and looking for hints.


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

If you are installing a P8, Phoenix makes a wiring harness with a plug for the P8 and a plug for the drop-in. While working on my first drop-in installation, I learned that you have to order a P8 with a drop-in harness rather than the standard harness. The drop-in harness is sold separately. 

Bert


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bert. That's much help. 
Dave


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok. Much thanks to were much thanks is due. No. I didn't know I had to ask for the special wiring harness that connects the speaker to the Phoenix board to the USAT drop-in board but the folks at Phoenix made me 10 of them - at no cost - so I could go ahead and do all my actual running engines. And now that the SD70 is working beautifully I can order all the drop-ins and sound cards that are appropriate along with a second T5000. Thank you Phoenix. Truly great customer service. And great sound as well. Even the correct Canadian horn. Great job. 

And thanks to USAT for working out a deal like this in cooperation with AirWire. As frightened as I was about actually getting in there and doing the job, it worked out just fine. Course I pretty much made up my own instructions but that's a different story. Awful!! But then I ranted on that before so no need.

I removed the old USAT board and installed the drop-in as illustrated. Then connected all the plugs as shown bypassing the instructions and drawings that related to the battery. That left the four wires to the wheels and sliders (track pick-ups) hanging free. I applied 16 VDC to the AC input on a full wave bridge and plugged the DC output into the 'battery in' plug on the drop-in board. Reversing the PS voltage +/- had no effect on the polarity into the board. Just like a battery. 

Now I installed the Phoenix board as directed using the new harness and turned it on with the switch under the frame. It worked. Now I installed a small terminal board, and the bridge, at the rear of the engine and wired the bridge output to the terminal board. I wired the four track pick-up wires int the input of the bridge being careful to check polarity because the front truck and the rear truck wires are reversed (black-red) I applied 16VDC to the track under the engine. The Phoenix board fired up and I turned on the drop-in. 

Now I had to learn how to use the T5000. Instructions are crap!! Sorry. Been there. Nuff to say I acquired the engine on 03 and ran it back and forth on a short track, did the lights and horn and bell and all that and I'm really impressed. The next one will be easy.

Thanks too for the advice I got right here. Invaluable AND confidence building all the way. Important.


Dave


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,

I agree the instructions for the 5000 are lacking if you are a first time user of an Airwire product. But the instructions that are missing, can be found in the 9000 manual available online at CVP. Great controller!


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

I have issues. Perhaps someone can point me in the right direction.

Here's where I am: The 'start-up' instructions got me running on 03 just as advertised. Lights, horn, speed and direction and all of that. Now I simply want to move on past 03 and program in the actual engine # 5575 leaving 03 in memory for now. Somewhere I'm missing at one simple step because I get as far as ----, enter 5575, punch in a few 'best guess' buttons and then nothing. 

One of the very 1st items on an instruction manual should be "How to use the product" you just bought. These instructions go from turn on right into consists for crying out loud.

So any simple 2 or 3 step procedures on entering into memory *one single locomotive* so I, or anyone else, can recall it when we want to?

I know, I sound pretty dumb on this but I seem to have tried everything.

Thanks in advance. 
Oh! Just one of my goals: Write up a VERY SIMPLE card, laminate it, and hand it to a visitor and say, "Pick a train and run it." That's how simple it should be.


Dave.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By dawinter on 09 Feb 2012 12:11 PM 


I have issues. Perhaps someone can point me in the right direction.

Here's where I am: The 'start-up' instructions got me running on 03 just as advertised. Lights, horn, speed and direction and all of that. Now I simply want to move on past 03 and program in the actual engine # 5575 leaving 03 in memory for now. Somewhere I'm missing at one simple step because I get as far as ----, enter 5575, punch in a few 'best guess' buttons and then nothing. 

One of the very 1st items on an instruction manual should be "How to use the product" you just bought. These instructions go from turn on right into consists for crying out loud.

So any simple 2 or 3 step procedures on entering into memory *one single locomotive* so I, or anyone else, can recall it when we want to?

I know, I sound pretty dumb on this but I seem to have tried everything.

Thanks in advance. 
Oh! Just one of my goals: Write up a VERY SIMPLE card, laminate it, and hand it to a visitor and say, "Pick a train and run it." That's how simple it should be.


Dave. 

Dave,

Press #. Enter 5575. Then press # again. That's all there is to it. Pretty simple.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

-That would seem to be that case - but no. That doesn't work. 
Just to clarify:

1. Turn on my track power (instead of batt)
2, Turn on my engine switch (move to forward position)
3. Turn on my T5000
a. LOCO 0003
b. FR 00
C. SS 128
D. SPEED 000
4. *1 = cab lights on
5. 0,1,2,3 = Headlights etc on
6. Throttle forward and back working
7. # 5575 # = nothing happens - no control of anything.

As I said, I'm missing something simple. The paper that's laughingly called an instruction sheet says something about Push LOCO, LOCO to store active loco int memory but..... 

-
-Posted By Gary Armitstead on 09 Feb 2012 12:38 PM 

Posted By dawinter on 09 Feb 2012 12:11 PM 


I have issues. Perhaps someone can point me in the right direction.

Here's where I am: The 'start-up' instructions got me running on 03 just as advertised. Lights, horn, speed and direction and all of that. Now I simply want to move on past 03 and program in the actual engine # 5575 leaving 03 in memory for now. Somewhere I'm missing at one simple step because I get as far as ----, enter 5575, punch in a few 'best guess' buttons and then nothing. 

One of the very 1st items on an instruction manual should be "How to use the product" you just bought. These instructions go from turn on right into consists for crying out loud.

So any simple 2 or 3 step procedures on entering into memory *one single locomotive* so I, or anyone else, can recall it when we want to?

I know, I sound pretty dumb on this but I seem to have tried everything.

Thanks in advance. 
Oh! Just one of my goals: Write up a VERY SIMPLE card, laminate it, and hand it to a visitor and say, "Pick a train and run it." That's how simple it should be.


Dave. 

Dave,

Press #. Enter 5575. Then press # again. That's all there is to it. Pretty simple.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh! Just one of my goals: Write up a VERY SIMPLE card, laminate it, and hand it to a visitor and say, "Pick a train and run it." That's how simple it should be. 


Hi Dave, 

I have made up small laminated cards for each of my locomotives, showing the DCC address and all the sounds/ functions available for that particular engine. They are great and have worked out very well for myself and guests because you don't have to remember anything that way. I have set up an Excel spreadsheet and if you want I will email it to you-- just send me your email via pm. 

Keith


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

I was really frustrated with Airwire when I first got it also. I had NO clue as to what DCC or CV's were! I had the same trouble you are having now. The default, from the factory is loco address #3 and frequency #3. I believe you have your loco #5575's address correct, but what about the frequency to and from the decoder? Anywhere from #1 to #9? Maybe I'm missing something? E-mail Paul Burch on here and get his expertise. He walked me through my frustrations and now I ALMOST know what I'm doing with Airwire!


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Doesn't the decoder have to be programmed first? I had already done that with my 900, so when I received my 5000 I just had to do the #loco number# for it to work.

I agree the instructions are not clear. My GUESS is that's the service mode example in the instructions.

So make sure only loco you are working on (5575) is on. press MENU, MENU, 4, Enter CV number, 1 for the address, and push #, key in loco number 5575, push #. Decoder should chirp, press * to exit. Now from the main menu you should be able to press #5575# and off you go.

Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Tommy. 

I'll give that a try. Regarding the frequency: The board is factory set at 0 and is a part of at least one page of instructions. I expect I can leave it on 0 for ever as I won't be programing enough locos to fill the 9 holes that offers. If your information drops 5575 into memory I'll file that for the future knowing I have 5 or 6 more to do in the next few months. 

Dave


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Further to the above. I sure feel like a blooming idiot asking these questions about 'A THROTTLE". Been doing model railroading since 1972 for heavens sake. And you wonder why only 3 members (of 14) of the local HO club can program engines with Digitrax. We had to buy 4 new UT4 throttles for people to use because they are impossible to screw up the whole system with. What kind of technology would produce a litter box like Digitrax? I don't have to press three buttons to 'dispatch' channel 3 on my TV when I want to watch channel 8. That's why I like the AirWire system - but then again, I can't work that either. 

Dave


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't feel bad. This is some great technology and it DOES work great when you get the hang of it. I WAS truly frustrated when I got it. 

I e-mailed Paul Burch (The Airwire doctor) and said he would take a look at your problem and get it working for you. He was outside building his foundation for a new station on his layout. Hang in there.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 09 Feb 2012 06:03 PM 
Don't feel bad. This is some great technology and it DOES work great when you get the hang of it. I WAS truly frustrated when I got it. 

I e-mailed Paul Burch (The Airwire doctor) and said he would take a look at your problem and get it working for you. He was outside building his foundation for a new station on his layout. Hang in there. 
That's kind of you Gary. Thanks


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

WoW! It worked. Thanks Tommy. It wall runs beautifully on 5575 as advertised.

It's going to be a great system. 

Thanks also for all the input on this from the rest of you. Kinda what makes this forum work.

Dave


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm glad it worked out. I'm also a member of "when in trouble call Paul Burch club"

Tommy
Rio Gracie


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tmejia on 09 Feb 2012 07:58 PM 
I'm glad it worked out. I'm also a member of "when in trouble call Paul Burch club" Tommy Rio Gracie ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Also known as "The Doctor's Assistant"


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,
Glad to see Tommy got it straightened out for you. Just remember with Airwire that you are dealing with two items,the settings in the locomotive decoder done through CV changes and the settings in the transmitter. In the transmitter you are basically just dealing with frequency and speed step setting and of course keying in the address of the locomotive you are running. I have done quite a few locomotives now and have gone into just about every area even if just to see what it does. If you have a problem just e-mail and I will try to help.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

A question about T5000/Drop-in speed control: If I have preselected 14 or 28 steps the engine runs away at full speed and there is no throttle control at all. When I select 128 steps the throttle controls very well just as it does in the other three engines I have completed. This doesn't seem like a CV issue because I don't think there is a CV for each separate speed - step selection. Any hints?

Thanks

Dave


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Dave,

It’s plausible you’re experiencing EMI/RFI anomalies... 

Look in the manual for info on mitigating motor noise.

Michael


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael, if that is so, why is it we are continually told 900 MHz is interference free? The only totally interference free radio frequency I have come across is 2.4 GHz.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Tony,

I’m no expert, but have lots of experience with Radio Control stuff.

Noise is noise as you know; 900mHz certainly is not impervious to same. I don’t have any knowledge or info that suggests this is an ongoing problem with AirWire drives. I suspect the typical remedies are in play when needed, resistors-capacitors-shielded and or twisted cable and such. There is also the possibility that a given motor is generating more noise than usual due to deficiencies which may be a function of the condition of the armature and brush pack. Loose wires and even how/where wires are routed can be blamed in some circumstance in my experience. I should also suggest that EMI or electro-mechanical interference is generated mechanically typically due to metal to metal abrasion……

My engines with AIrwire 900mHz stuff works great, I attribute the trouble free operation to AIrWire’s design and good installation practices. That said I never had problems with my 72mHz equipment and Giant Scale R/C airplanes either, which are a rich source of EMI/RFI. 

As you allude to 2.4gHz equipment is superior at rejecting noise, its well documented and function of the sophisticated technology in play.

Michael


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Michael. 
You are of course correct about good installation practices as being at least somewhat contributory to coping with RFI. 
I could actually get 27 MHz to work quite well for many years. 27 MHz suffered both from atmospheric RFI and in line RFI. 
I used good quality RF chokes and strategically placed capacitors to suppress the motor "noise", which not only affected the radio reception but sent the interference back up the lines from the motor(s) to sometimes disrupt the IC running the system. 
I found the after market AZARR 27 MHz antennas had a very beneficial effect improving range. 

None of that is apparent with 2.4 GHz R/C. It works flawlessly no matter what environment it operates in. To the extent that I can actually place the RX antennas completely inside a metal bodied loco with no discernible drop in range from the excellent 500' plus I now achieve.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,
I don't think it has anything to do with interference. Are you saying that the motor runs up to full rpm or just the sound? Don't forget that in 14 or 28 speed steps it looks at the CV settings but in the 128 setting it basically is only looking at CV1 for address. Is this a new install and has it done this from the very beginning? If it is the motor then I would try a factory reset on the drop-in,then just re-input CV1 for the address and give it a test.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Paul Burch on 07 Aug 2012 10:53 AM 
Dave,
I don't think it has anything to do with interference. Are you saying that the motor runs up to full rpm or just the sound? Don't forget that in 14 or 28 speed steps it looks at the CV settings but in the 128 setting it basically is only looking at CV1 for address. Is this a new install and has it done this from the very beginning? If it is the motor then I would try a factory reset on the drop-in,then just re-input CV1 for the address and give it a test.


Yeah. Motor only. This is a new install and it has done this right from the beginning. At first turn on it ran away off of the short piece of track I had on the workbench. I turned off the motors and put it on rollers but as soon as it was turned on it ran at full speed again. I just tried 128 as a shot in the dark and then it suddenly worked just fine. ???? Just like my other three engines. Switched the T5000 to 28/14 and I had full speed again with no control. Will try a factory reset as soon as I get home.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll let you know what happened. 
(Must get some personal "hands on" instruction with this throttle. Written instructions are awful.)


Dave


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Checked the little T5000 folder and did option 7 (factory reset). Everything stopped all right but as soon as I reprogrammed for engine 8100 I got the high speed run away on 14/28 and again 'reasonable' speed operation on 128. The sound followed 128.

I might set this GP9 away for a while and install the second one. See what happens then. 
No doubt about it though. It's a piss-off given that the other installations were so easy and 'factory' settings were working for me just fine. 


Dave


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,
What you want to reset is the drop-in ,not the T5000. You need to set CV8 to 135 per the drop-in manual. That will reset the the drop-in decoder. Then input CV1 with your address or before you do CV1 just test it with the default address of 3.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all

I just got my three GP9 Drop-ins back from CVP and they said that all of them were working just fine. I even did my mods ok so no issues there. It was good of them to offer to check them out for me - no charge - because I had already completed three Drop-ins (F3A/B and SD70) with no problems. Something about those GP9's that has me screwed. Anyway, the first one will be back in and tried this weekend after double and triple checking all my wiring to/from motors and my 14.5VDC power supply. Thought the lights were an issue because all of mine were of the 'old' type (track power to lamp) but were modified to convert that track power to LED levels with a 1000 ohm resister. Still, the Drop-ins didn't work right even with the light assy's removed so....

Soon see.

Dave


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to let you know. The returned drop-ins worked beautifully. My amateur attempt at returning the boards to the factory setting obviously didn't work because they told me that is all they needed. But why were they wrong when I got them??? Anyway. all is well and I moved on to the GP38-2w which is my last installation until the SD40 comes out.

Really happy so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u4EubQtJEQ&feature=youtu.be

Cheers

Dave


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