# PIKO Camelback and Crest 55465 and 55401



## mgm475 (Dec 27, 2007)

I posted this in the Power Section as well, but maybe there is some one on this section that could help.

I have the above referenced Crest 55465 power supply and Crest 55401 power controller to power my Aristocraft engines via track power. It works fine for my Aristo engines..

I want to purchase a PIKO Camelback G scale engine. Will this power that engine.

The reason I ask is, I contacted PIKO yesterday and they said some people are having issues running their new engine on a PWC power supply. They told me to make sure my power supply is linear.

I am not an electrical engineer, so could someone tell me that I will be ok with the Crest units I have to power this new engine via track power.

Thank you

Mark M


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You will do best on forums to post in one place, and your question has been answered a number of times. If using DC, run your PIKO on "linear". 

I cannot tell for sure if that controller has a "linear" switch on it.

The DCC decoder in your Piko will most likely get "confused" if you send PWM power to it.

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Instead of applying power similar to your gas pedal, where speed is relative to position of pedal, PWC consists of pulses of full power. Pulse Width Control; the wider the pulses the faster the motor as they add up. Bursts of full power will confuse the decoder that is expecting a variation in voltage....
PWC helps over come dirty track by using full voltage.
Anyway that is my understanding.
Piko should be congratulated for their honesty, you might pass on the loco if you won't also get a power source for it.
John


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I think there is a bit of misinformation here.
The Piko locos do not come with any decoders as far as I know.
Piko offers a DCC decoder that can be added but the basic loco is just analogue.

As far as using those Aristo components are concerned.
From what I can see on the net, the 55401 controller provides only a PWM output, no linear output like some older Aristo products.
How well (or poorly) that works with the Piko loco depends on the frequency of the PWM signal, the higher the better) and the specific motor in that Piko loco.
So...for a basic Piko loco, the Aristo controller should work assuming the PWM frequency is reasonably high, say 10 KHz or higher. With a low PWM frequency the motor in the loco may overheat and burn out.
However, if you plan to add sound or other electronics you may have a problem regardless of the PWM frequency.
Piko has given you the right answer - they can't really confirm that everything will work fine with the Aristo controller since they have no control over that product - specifically the output it generates.

The better option is to run analogue Large Scale locos on DC they way they were intended.

Knut


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've run (non-DCC-equipped) Piko locos on PWM from that throttle without issue--for hours on end under the Christmas tree in one case. (That loco is now running for hours on end with an Aristo Revolution decoder with PWM output.)

If you're concerned, you can buy a PWM/Linear filter from Crest. I don't know if they have them currently in stock, but they're an add-on for their trackside control units to control locos--particularly locos equipped with sound systems that don't like PWM. 

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe I'm not smoking the right stuff here..

First, the OP says he WANTS to buy a camelback, I assume that means a new one.

From the trainworld guys, it seems that the camelback comes with DCC and sound.

So first, Knut, do you have a listing that shows this loco for sale without sound?

Next the OP says he contacted Piko and they reported problems with PWM input.

The Crest controller mentioned seems to have PWM output only.

So, where is the misinformation?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

_If_ the Piko loco comes with Piko's factory DCC already installed, it _will not_ work with PWM. I ran into that when I reviewed their DCC-equipped steamer a year or so ago. It just sits on the track and does nothing when you try to run it with PWM. In that case, you must use linear voltage, either from a controller that outputs filtered DC, or via an intermediate PWM/Linear filter such as that offered by Crest. 

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Didn't I already say that? (and more)


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Well, Greg, at least we agree! How often does _that_ happen?  

I was clarifying my own comments since my first post had to do with non-DCC-equipped Piko locos, and then you brought up the fact that it may have DCC onboard. Different kettle of fish if that be the case, as both of us noted.

Later,

K


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> So, where is the misinformation?


You're right, Greg.

Most Piko locos don't come with a factory equipped decoder which is what I was thinking of, but this loco does and because of it, it will not run with PWM as was mentioned already.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, the important points here are the decoder seems to have fits with PWM, and as far as I can determine, this loco is available ONLY with the decoder.

So, it looks like those 2 points are pretty well confirmed, especially since some of the information comes from the manufacturer itself.

As an aside, I forgot who it was, but the last show I attended where Piko was exhibiting, I did talk to an employee of some stature who indicated that they were intending to supply all large scale locos with this decoder, no exceptions.

Regards, Greg


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## mgm475 (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks one and all for your help. I bought the Camelback and a new controller to avoid the issues.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Dave Bodner did an article for running your train on dirty track that involved a pair of big capacitors and a couple diodes.

I'm betting a similar circuit could do the job here with even less mfd. And capacitors have gotten smaller for their capacity and you could probably fit what you need in the tender.

This also alleviates any problems of non-availability of parts through a mfg.


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