# USA trains EMD F3



## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

I live in Johnson City TN, kind of a railroad town you might say, and I'm modeling ET&WNC stuff in Bachmann in 1:20 and Southern stuff in 1:29 in Aristocraft and USA trains.

I recently got the last Southern USA EMD F 3 A/B set anybody had in stock and wasn't real happy with the way it fell out of the box once i pried the freakin' box open. It was packed tighter than a drum. I mean, my Southern Aristocraft RS-3 was pretty much flawless right out of the box and is a great model. This USA Trains F-3 I got from Charles Ro I couldn't even get out of the box without prying the cardboard all apart. Once I did that, and got the styrofoam boxed A and B units loose from the packaging assorted parts fell out on the table when I pulled the units out of the plastic bags. Maybe I'm being whiny but 500 bucks is real money for me for a toy so I gues I had higher hopes for 'fit and finish' and I don't like seeing loose s--t fall off the models I just bought. I put the ladders back on and pieces back on the trucks that fell off and replaced parts and installed smoke stacks, etc. and the other pieces included and then noted that the metal grills, especially on the B unit were WAY bowed out of shape from the diesel body. I e-mailed USA trains and also called them and they acted all nonchalant about the fact that temperature differences between the plastic and metal parts were "normal". A week later at interior room temps they are still bowed out and my eye goes right to the inherent flaw. C'mon now! That's just shoddy s--t. The real metal window screeen is a nice touch but maybe plastic or some other kind of grill would've been a better choice.


I followed other modeller's suggestions and took the model apart but after inspecting the grills decided I would do more damage trying to pry the tabs loose and f--king with the grills than if I left it all alone. While replacing the body I knocked loose one of the door springs on the back of the B unit and that took an hour to replace so the door would shut properly.


Not feeling the "love" for USA trains at the moment. If someone has a better fix for the grill screens I would appreciate hearing about it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sounds like a bad day, I have 7 USAT F3's and NEW ones come with the exhaust stacks in a plastic bag with a couple of other trim parts. The stacks come in plastic (for looks) and metal (for using the smoke unit)... If these parts came loose, your locos were not new. 

Yes the grills on some buckle, and gently straightening the tabs will let you remove them, I shorten mine a tad on each end and put them back on. I tried compressing them and making them shorter, but no luck. 

Yes, push too hard or put your thumb through a door and you can knock the door hinge and spring off, it happens. I have not had problems gluing them back in though. While you have the shell off, put a few more dabs of glue around the windows inside so they don't pop off so easily when you forget and pick it up pressing on them. 

Be careful with the glue so you don't craze the clear windows. 

Regards, Greg


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Not really a bad day. I actually had a good day, I'm just less impressed with USA trains now that I own one and have had it apart on my workbench than I am with Aristocraft or even Bachmann after having this model apart today. 
You mentioned on an earlier post of mine that you had "11" F3 models and now you say you have "7" USA F3s and I'm really happy for you cause Gosh, at 200.00 + for an A unit or 475.00 for an A/B unit you've got some real money tied up in those engines unless you have some kind of deal with USA trains or are an employee or something. For my money I won't be buying USA Trains again on the internet without seeing them, for real, in my hands.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I have five of their GP's, and could not be happier. Like Greg said parts should have been in a bag, if not then it's used. I run the wheels off mine in the summer, and they run like a top! The only thing I don't like is that they are power hogs.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By SRW on 14 Jan 2010 10:11 PM 
I live in Johnson City TN, kind of a railroad town you might say, and I'm modeling ET&WNC stuff in Bachmann in 1:20 and Southern stuff in 1:29 in Aristocraft and USA trains.

I recently got the last Southern USA EMD F 3 A/B set anybody had in stock and wasn't real happy with the way it fell out of the box once i pried the freakin' box open. It was packed tighter than a drum. I mean, my Southern Aristocraft RS-3 was pretty much flawless right out of the box and is a great model. This USA Trains F-3 I got from Charles Ro I couldn't even get out of the box without prying the cardboard all apart. Once I did that, and got the styrofoam boxed A and B units loose from the packaging assorted parts fell out on the table when I pulled the units out of the plastic bags. Maybe I'm being whiny but 500 bucks is real money for me for a toy so I gues I had higher hopes for 'fit and finish' and I don't like seeing loose s--t fall off the models I just bought. I put the ladders back on and pieces back on the trucks that fell off and replaced parts and installed smoke stacks, etc. and the other pieces included and then noted that the metal grills, especially on the B unit were WAY bowed out of shape from the diesel body. I e-mailed USA trains and also called them and they acted all nonchalant about the fact that temperature differences between the plastic and metal parts were "normal". A week later at interior room temps they are still bowed out and my eye goes right to the inherent flaw. C'mon now! That's just shoddy s--t. The real metal window screeen is a nice touch but maybe plastic or some other kind of grill would've been a better choice.


I followed other modeller's suggestions and took the model apart but after inspecting the grills decided I would do more damage trying to pry the tabs loose and f--king with the grills than if I left it all alone. While replacing the body I knocked loose one of the door springs on the back of the B unit and that took an hour to replace so the door would shut properly.


Not feeling the "love" for USA trains at the moment. If someone has a better fix for the grill screens I would appreciate hearing about it. 


1st thing you might want to post your real name cause when you come around saying f this and frig that without using your real name and only have 11 post then most tend to ignore you. Now back to your train, as been said before the grills have been an issue for some on all different makes of trains its just one of those things. i have found a hair dryer works wonders on these. Did you buy the new or used and from who? parts are in a bag inside the box when new and need to be installed, Also your locomotive should fall out of the box when turned over so if it didnt then maybe you seller had it out of the box? you might check with him. As far as USA is concerned, if you send them the receipt they will replace the grills i beleive for free, but if i were you id get on the phone with the seller and make him do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!
As far as the luv is concerned once you get your issues worked out with the USA locos you will soon see it will probably become your favorite locos cause well they do run the best of all the 1/29th locos out there.







my opinion of course.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By SRW on 14 Jan 2010 11:07 PM 
Not really a bad day. I actually had a good day, I'm just less impressed with USA trains now that I own one and have had it apart on my workbench than I am with Aristocraft or even Bachmann after having this model apart today. 
You mentioned on an earlier post of mine that you had "11" F3 models and now you say you have "7" USA F3s and I'm really happy for you cause Gosh, at 200.00 + for an A unit or 475.00 for an A/B unit you've got some real money tied up in those engines unless you have some kind of deal with USA trains or are an employee or something. For my money I won't be buying USA Trains again on the internet without seeing them, for real, in my hands. 


Also you do know the you can buy a-b sets thru USA for 350.00...? RITE you need to do your homework before buying and buy from someone you can trust and that goes for any trains? i usually will not buy from dealer stock id rather they ship them direct from manufacture so i know in getting a fresh unit. Heres 3 i picked up from RLD hobbies for XMAS and had them shipped from USA.









USA is the best in my opinion....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have six of there locos of various types. They all run great and have not had any issues with them.. As Nick said other units besides USAT have problems with there grill work. I got two Aristo E-8s that have similar problems with the grills. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I screwed up, I have 11... sorry... all Santa Fe, 6 warbonnet, 4 blue and yellow, and one warbonnet I bought for parts (the shell). 

The little "ladders" are indeed on loosely sometimes, again, older ones might want a bit of foam in the slot with the "fingers" to hold them in place. Yes, there are a number of trim parts and some can use a touch of glue to hold in place. I'm surprised the little "loops" around the ends of the axle housings are just pressed in, I add a drop of "rubbery" glue. 

In general, very happy with USAT. Since I model standard gauge, I, like you, most often compare them to Aristo. One HUGE difference is in the quality of the plating on the wheels, The USAT locos are WAY better. Not only does the Aristo plating wear off quickly, and in many cases prematurely, but the Aristo wheels are steel underneath and they rust, which causes all kinds of operational problems. 

I have 5 USAT PA/PB, 2 GP7's NW2 cow and calf, 2 44 tonners, and an S4. 

I surely would not continue to buy their product if it had major problems. 

I am concerned that you did buy something that was either used, or had been unpacked and repacked. All of mine have come out of the packaging easily. 

I will state again though, the screens being too long and buckling away is something many come with. 

Regards, Greg


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

concerning the grilles - My sons train has the same problem out of the box at Christmas! Hair dryer eh? Installed or not when you do this? Greg, you shorten them, how... Ia there a thread already posted on this?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I remove them, trim a bit from the ends with quality tinsnips, touch up the paint on the ends and re-attach. You can also "bow" the metal away from the tabs so that when you re-attach, the tabs help pull it flat. Basically it is too long period.... (trim both ends). 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

OOOOOO just noticed you said you bought then from Ro's store, then i would demand they pick them up and send you new ones at no charge.... Period. just another tip unless you find a good deal on there web site buy from other dealers as roe is pritty high priced on his stuff so as not to compete with his dealers i beleive.............


John my new E-8s came last year this time of winter and the grills looked like a roller coaster track i just used a hair dryer on them and the grills settled back down and i havent had any issues since.


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Love my F3's They have been modified with new reflectors in the headlights (from small flashlights), MARS lights, Kadee couplers, sound and some light weathering. They run extremely well and have given me no problems. http://www.liveoakrr.com/photos/pg22.htm


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Sorry if my frustration spilled over in my post. 
To address the comments. Let's see: 
I did research many different retailers for a Southern F3 A and B unit pair. No one had them so I contacted USA trains directly. The woman I spoke with told me Charles Ro was the retailer that sells things directly for them and she checked her computer and told me they had one Southern A&B left in stock for 475. She took my order at USA trains and sent it on to Charles Ro. She certainly never mentioned anything about 350.00 engines as Nick suggests. I can only take people at their word as telling me the truth when i call their company on the phone. I notice none of your engines in the photo are F3s or Southerns so maybe there were better deals on NYC geeps. I paid 475.00 for the A/B unit pair so that would divide down to about 237.00 each unit. The price was not really the disappointing issue here so much as the pieces falling off the model that had to reglued and the bowed out grills and ther rear door spring on the B unit popping off the hinge when I barely pushed it in. 
The box, as I stated before, was packed so tight that you could not remove the styrofoam packaging from the box. I did not wish to pound or force on it too much for fear of damaging the models inside so after being unable to budge it for many minutes I gave up and pried the glue apart on the box seam to free the styrofoam. Inside the boxes the A and B unit were in sealed plastic bags with several separate sealed plastic bags. One bag in each box had the metal and plastic smokestacks and the truck side stirrups for that unit and the other bag had knuckle couplers. There was also one other additional bag with a spare coupler like the ones that come on the models. I opened the A unit bag and as I carefully slid the A unit out two side detail pieces I believe from the brakes from two different trucks and one of the ladders were laying in the bag and i had to locate where they go and snap them on. I noticed the grilles were a little off on the A unit. When I removed the B unit from the bag I noticed it had much more bowed grills on both sides. 
I then did more research on this forum and the internet and discovered it is a fairly common issue with this engine. One person here stated about the ten foot rule in his railroading. I agree to a point but for model trains trying to sell detailed and realistic models for close to 500.00, I should be able to not have to set it down and walk 10' away to appreciate it. I think anyone reading this would have to agree that if they spent close to 500 dollars on a new camera, or consumer electronic device or household appliance and had poorly fitting and loose pieces come out of the packaging and then have a piece like the door spring snap by merely touching it...well they would have been less than happy i'd bet and if it was your first experience with that manufacturer you would certainly be taken aback by that. I also called USA Trains and inquired about the poor fitting grills in a pleasant tone of voice and a gentleman simply told me the temps make them bow out when cold and he interrupted me twice while I tried to explain that the train had been indoors at room temp before I even got time to open them then they sat for a week before I attempted to fiddle with them so I think in a week's time they would've flattened out if that were the case. He explained to me that i needed to cut the tabs on the air hoses to help remove the frame from the body which was helpful information as I did not wish to force anything but at no time was I offered any other suggestions or offered replacement units and they already told me it was the last Southern F3 AB units they knew about so who knows how long I would have to wait for a replacement after I shipped the model back to them. I will live with them as they are since they otherwise seem okay. Someday i may find a way to affix the grills in a better fashion.
Again, I must've gotten one built on Friday or Chinese New Year or something as I seriously doubt it was a repack item and I apologize for venting my negative reviews of the USA Train which is clearly a favorite of others here. I will remain a bit gun shy towards this manufacturer however and hope other modelers continue to have their engines, etc. arrive in better condition than mine did. Other than those issues the rest of the detail is good and the trains seem to run quite well so far. Everybody have a great weekend thanks for the advice, life is good, happy railroading. 

Scott


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

One other thing I would like to do besides apologize for any earlier remarks that may have offended is to urge everyone to consider looking into Haitian relief efforts. I am looking into the ClintonBushHaiti fund myself. Terrible mess down there. I guess we should all consider how lucky we are and look into helping any way we can. 

Scott


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Scott, when I get USAT products, I open both ends and push the foam packing out as one unit. It's usually snug, but never to the point I had to pull the box apart. With all the USAT stuff I have, I believe it was repackaged, not necessarily used. 

I agree with you about the grills, you would think after all these years, they could just make them a little shorter! 

I did not ask this before and it's probably too late, but were the 2 halves of the styrofoam nicely "mated" or was there a gap between them? 

Anyway, kind of late on this one, what is, is. 

Shove a bit of foam between the legs of your ladders, that will help keep them in place. You can pull the foam out with tweezers if you want to remove them later. 

Try that glue tip on the "loops" or "hangers" that are around each axle end. Be sure to make it something you can remove, there are screws to remove the sideframes underneath. You rarely need to remove the sideframes, therefore the recommendation. 

Don't let anyone else pick them up, they will for sure punch out a window or door. 

(I know I repeated some stuff in this post) 

Regards, Greg


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Greg, 
Thanks, I seem to recall the styrofoam blocks were "nicely mated" and really, the packaging was very pristine. During my undergrad days in the early 90's I worked for a company that designed and installed high end home theatres in central MD/DC area and we had two retail stores also and I got pretty good at spotting a "repack" since I myself repacked quite a few of them. I know that it's possible to do a pretty undetectable job of it. Still, if I had to wager I'd say this was not a repack. 
I sure do appreciate your advice. I've only been collecting large scale trains for about two years but I've modeled trains and cars before in other gauges since my teens in the late 70s and I can improve the issues with this model. I even kind of wondered why the model needed working doors at all actually and will probably secure them shut with a tiny dab of clear silicone inside so they don't flop around later and while doing that will add a tiny dab to secure windows from popping out if you say that's another possible issue. 
I liked the led headlamp mods I've seen on some websites and wish to add sound to the A unit so I may wait until I set aside for that and do all the touch-ups at one time. Thanks again.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Scott, nice to see you posting your real name







as far as the picture is concerned that was posted for an example only to have USA shipped directly from them to get a fresh unit. I do own 6 f-3 A and B units and they run great. as far as the damage is concerned,I did a little research and found out as best that i can tell that the Southern rd name was only made once when the f-3s first came out so your engines could have been sitting around for well over ten years...... Also when i was on the phone yesterday with USA i asked and they said they had more of these..............


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

I mean, my Southern Aristocraft RS-3 was pretty much flawless right out of the box and is a great model. 

That's a good one!! Have you tried running it yet?


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

HAA HAA HAA Thats a funny one







No Aristo bashing on this thread sir he he he


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Hi Nick,

I'm glad I made you feel better by using a name even though I think it's wise on the internet not to give out things like real names, e-mail addresses, phone numbers etc. and I see other members of this forum using Nom de Plumes so I thought that was the prudent way to go too. About a third of the people posting on this thread do not use their real names. I simply don't care to put too much info out there on the internet. 

I also wanted to thank you for your efforts in your defense of one your favorite toy train companies and to prove my experiences invalid for taking special time to contact USA T. You've now further added to my warm feelings about USA T by telling me that when *you* called them on the phone today they told you they have 6 of the model they told me they had none of in stock. I called the number on their homepage on their website when I initially was searching for my Southern F3 A/B units and told them I was having difficulty finding any dealers that had any of those in stock and the woman I spoke with told me she only knew of one and it was Charles Ro and they looked up the price for me and took my order at USA that morning. Now just over three weeks later they tell you that they have 6 of the models they told me they had zero of. So, I guess that means that the woman I spoke with the 29th of December at USA trains did not know what she was talking about and/or simply BS'd me. That makes me feel even better about my experience. It was the end of the year, maybe people were on vacation, maybe you just know who to ask for...who knows?

As I said before, sorry my experience with USA trains was not great, acc. to others they have much better experiences and are willing to overlook fit and finish problems on models from USA. AGAIN, sorry I vented that frustration here on this forum [so very sorry], also sorry my Aristocraft trains and all my Bachmann stuff all seem to run well, and that they arrived nicely packaged and all the detailed parts on those were firmly and properly aligned and affixed to the models and none of their parts have fallen off yet without further gluing and repair on my part. Everyone is quick to tell me it's just a matter of time before they crumble and break but... so far those models have been running very nicely for me. I have read other people's issues with those two manufacturers so maybe that's why I had even higher hopes and was looking forward to my first USA model because they were supposed to be so superior. 

I do want to thank Greg again for offering me his advice on how to fix the flaws with the grill screens, how to better secure the loose ladders and for the 'heads up' to also add a drop of glue inside to the windows because apparently if you let anyone not fully aware of how to properly pick up this particular engine handle them you may end up looking around on the ground for some of the little porthole windows like a lost contact, fixing broken door springs, lost smokestacks or axle side stirrups and dealing with bent pushed in grill work. 

In the final analysis, they're just toy trains so... it is what it is. Please just forget about it and my apparently isolated bad experience.


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## Chris France (Jan 3, 2008)

Scott, don't let Nick get on your nerves too much, he's one of those noises you learn to ignore. Sorry to hear about your troubles with USA, I hope they get resolved. I've been very lucky with all of my engines from all manufacturers although they all have their issues. The swing hangers being removable on the trucks is a source of frustration for many, my GP-9 has lost one that I can't manage to find and I'm afraid to glue them in case I need to take apart the trucks. Don't let this thread spoil you on MLS. I've followed it for quite some time but was quite frankly afraid to comment as Nick has branded me a "yellow box boy" in his seemingly endless crusade against Aristo, so I try to avoid topics that talk about manufacturers one way or the other as I grew tired of his comments.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Scott,

One other thing. USA Trains is owned by Charles Ro. It is not surprising that the lady you spoke to had inventory results for Charlie Ro...

Another thing. If something is bothering you to the point where you feel the need to post it in a forum like this, you shouldn't have to apologize. Nobody else does. Your experience was exactly that, your experience. You had a bad one, sorry to hear that.

I think we all agree that when you buy a new locomotive, it should work and things shouldn't be broken right out of the box. You did what most would suggest, contact the seller (and it so happens that in this particular case, that is also the manufacturer). The response you got is about the same as the responses I have gotten in the past, sort of like "Yeah? so?" . That is what it is, and now you know when you buy next time. I have an F3A and it has run very well over the years. 

So, you did buy a nice locomotive that will run well. However, I suggest that you don't run the stock smoke units. Had a fire caused by a smoke unit in a 44-tonner a few years back so I quit using smoke units from USA trains. There were reports of fires in GP-7s earlier that I just ignored!

Mark


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Scott, 

Unfortunately, I have had good and bad experiences with EVERY major manufacturer and big box store. On the manufacturers, which I usually only call for service, I find the most helpful person and just deal with him. Luckily, Aristo, USAT, and Accucraft all have a "good guy"... I have not located this person in Bachmann yet, and I am selling off my Bachmann because I am standard gauge. 

When you get these contacts, it helps a lot. 

On the big box stores: wow, the answers you get are usually all over the map, so it's unfortunately not unusual to experience what you have experienced. Sometimes you get someone helpful and sometimes you get a real jerk. 

My method is to buy from a "smaller" dealer/distributor, maybe I pay a buck or two more, and have a much better experience. If I must buy from the absolute lowest price in town, then I grit my teeth and hope for the best, and take my medicine. 

Maybe the above is not helpful, so I will give another tip: I buy virtually all my rolling stock from one dealer. If he does not have something, he will find it for me, no matter who has it. This is great. He has gotten thing drop shipped from USAT and Aristo when they "did not exist" or were out of stock. He found me several hard to get items. 

So, bit by bit, you will find the best path to get things done, but all this stuff "happens", don't let it sour you, we have all experienced it. 

Lastly, Nick is a friend of mine. We were at each other's throats a while back, and he and I will freely admit it. Just like me, he can be rough on the outside sometimes. Don't let him get your goat (or llama!) (there is a joke in there, ask about his llama). 

Regards, Greg


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Hmm, must be lunchtime so hey folks! 

Okay, I aplogize for apologizing. 
Nick wasn't really getting on my nerves that much I just thought his comments were of little value with my personal observations regarding the crummy condition my particular USA F3 arrived and the "who cares?" customer service I happened to luck out and get. [laugh]. 

I am quite aware that quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, model to model, day to day. Tomato/tomahto, Ford/Chevy/Toyota...your mileage may vary, etc. so on.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Chris France on 18 Jan 2010 09:16 AM 
Scott, don't let Nick get on your nerves too much, he's one of those noises you learn to ignore. Sorry to hear about your troubles with USA, I hope they get resolved. I've been very lucky with all of my engines from all manufacturers although they all have their issues. The swing hangers being removable on the trucks is a source of frustration for many, my GP-9 has lost one that I can't manage to find and I'm afraid to glue them in case I need to take apart the trucks. Don't let this thread spoil you on MLS. I've followed it for quite some time but was quite frankly afraid to comment as Nick has branded me a "yellow box boy" in his seemingly endless crusade against Aristo, so I try to avoid topics that talk about manufacturers one way or the other as I grew tired of his comments. 

As i too have grown tired of the Aristo kiss butts that make themselfs branded and i ignore them as well, as they usually have no good info too post anyway...







And Scott you could google my house and post it when i was on vacation, but theres always someone here watching over things







THIS IS WHY I LUV STUPID PEOPLE







And i never said they had 6 in stock i said thats how many i had,You should read better... also i was on the phone with them ordering some parts so i thought id ask for you while i was on the phone go figure try to help get blasted no problem.. And Chris you can post anything you wish just make sure its the truth which some tend to over look because of a BLIND allegence....


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By SRW on 18 Jan 2010 10:26 AM 
Hmm, must be lunchtime so hey folks! 

Okay, I aplogize for apologizing. 
Nick wasn't really getting on my nerves that much I just thought his comments were of little value with my personal observations regarding the crummy condition my particular USA F3 arrived and the "who cares?" customer service I happened to luck out and get. [laugh]. {deleted - mod} I am quite aware that quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, model to model, day to day. Tomato/tomahto, Ford/Chevy/Toyota...your mileage may vary, etc. so on. 




Be real careful here fella. lol. 

My PAID security advisor is Firmly against my publishing real data here as the site is NOT password protected. I usually dismiss Nick's comments as a' little kid's with too much money...' his semi-obscene remake of my moniker showed me his true nature....

I once posted a similar post, but merely warned folks to be careful about telling folks when they were all planing the Who's gonna be at..party.' One member here demanded that I be kicked out!
A fine bunch of Ostriches we have here; bragging about walls of trains and then wanting me out for pointing out the obvious. I had google searched my favorite abandoned mine and up came a MLS thread that I had posted. I was worried that I had revealed too much personal info in that thread and wanted to warn my new friends...

I am not smart enough to be a successful criminal, yet I am smart enough to see the hazzard of telling all and then hoping for the best.

I know you put this up as humor, but some won't take it that way....

John


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I DELETED MY POST.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Wow, I was just joking and I know I won't be missed but you guys are all way too much for me. 

Adios


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

As far as Johns comments are concerned he made a nasty post to me with out having all the facts the same way he did with Robbie from RLD so i responded to his comments in quick fashion. and John you shouldnt post pictures of a little boy anywere thats way uncool







Whether you like it or not....







Anyway im out boys have a nice day. And by the way i will be working at ECLSTS bolth days come look me up. I cant wait to meet yaaaas









And as far as you comment little kid's with too much money... I look at it as im an adult that HAS enough money to buy what i want when i want it...Lucky to be me i guess...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Nick ain't so... 

I came here for the facts. How could I have all, before you had a chance to enlighten me? As I remember (that was over a year ago and) I don't remember ever asking you for help....most likely you you pushed Bridgewerks when I was asking about batteries.... 

Robbie and I have 'made up' (I wrote and apologised) and I purchased track from him last week. Actually Nick, our dispute was because he with held the facts, that has since changed.... 

Might I inquire why a man's son shouldn't be pictured? What does the weather have to do with it? Whether or not eh? lol. 

Have fun at the ECLSTS, you won't need a false face for me.... too far for that pleasure! 

John


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

Gee fellas, I stepped out for a drink, looks like I missed the first half of the game. What's the score and who's winning?............Jim


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Hi Jim how are you today? you been running any trains lately. i liked your Xmas video.


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## Johnn (Jan 5, 2010)

This Web site is great, I'm so glad i joined the Drama around here at times is fantastic. The only drama i get a home is rubbing my wife smelly feet this is great. If the owner of this site made this stuff into a movie he'd be rich. Thank you guys this is one of the reasons i joined, the spirited conversation.
Johnn


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

Hey Nick, It's a pretty good day, temp up to 50 Deg F. Unfortunely its to muddy to run trains. Have alot of winter work to do like paint and assemble some new buildings. The grandkids really enjoyed running the trains around the Xmas tree. The grandkids were running USAT, Aristo, MTH, Bachmann and LGB and everyone was happy. I hope everyone takes a time out to play with their trains. Everyone on this forum has one thing in common, they really love this hobby. Let's call a peace treaty. Nick, see ya at the York train show................Jim


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ya I say go out and run some trains and relax and enjoy. Forget all the BS. Life to short to piddle over small stuff. Later RJD


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Posted By aceinspp on 18 Jan 2010 02:45 PM 
Ya I say go out and run some trains and relax and enjoy. Forget all the BS. Life to short to piddle over small stuff. Later RJD Amen to that.

I already apologized for jumping into this tight little group a bit too strong so I won't do that again. I am a bit embarrassed that I got sucked into some petty back and forth ego/attitude stuff, especially when 100,000 people just died in Haiti and back in this country 1 in 10 Americans [if you believe the guv'ment figures] are out of work and probably more like 1 in 5 is out of work and/or doing some part-time jobs way below their former employment and praying they don't lose their homes. Posts like the one above put it in perspective though, model railroading is about a fun and relaxing hobby you can enjoy and share with your kids and friends. It's not who's got the most trains or the biggest layout or the right amount of rivets on each locomotive. I spent some time this evening with a detail brush adding some detail to a freebie Big Hauler I was given I'm converting from a B&O Royal Blue toy set to [hopefully] make it look like ET&WNC's #11 that's awaiting some decals in the mail, some stripes and some 'weathering' to help add the finishing touches to it. That's cooler to me than who has the best new s--t that's out there but who can make a beautiful model out of a basic toy engine, spare parts or especially totally from scratch. Frankly, since I seem to have started this mess I would like to see the Moderator delete the entire post and its responses and hope we can all remember that this hobby isn't about "can you top this" or "my brand's better than your brand". 
If you'll excuse me now I'm going to take my cold beer downstairs and check out this freebie Big 'Mauler' on my test loop to see if I put the damned thing back together right and it even still runs. 



Happy Trails everybody!!


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Our headlines read 200,000 in Haiti. Really puts things in perspective, doesn't it? 

Hey, when you get your Big Mauler painted up, think you might post some pictures in the model making forum? 

Later,

Mark


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I too regret being in that silly tit for tat bit of nonsense... 

Nick's a great guy. 

I goofed a long time ago when I thought I was having a bit of fun with fellow here and it got nasty, never meant it to, but dang it, I replied in kind and it grew..... 

I'm trying not to be that guy again. 

Nick, if I was ever nasty to you, I apologise. 

John


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SRW on 18 Jan 2010 10:26 AM 
Hmm, must be lunchtime so hey folks! 

Okay, I aplogize for apologizing. 
Nick wasn't really getting on my nerves that much I just thought his comments were of little value with my personal observations regarding the crummy condition my particular USA F3 arrived and the "who cares?" customer service I happened to luck out and get. [laugh]. {deleted - mod} I am quite aware that quality varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, model to model, day to day. Tomato/tomahto, Ford/Chevy/Toyota...your mileage may vary, etc. so on.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

Addendum... 

I took a lot of flames about my bad luck with my purchase of a USA Trains F3 A/B unit. Who cares? I'm just a normal consumer of G scale model trains 'off the street' as it were, a nobody, and get no special deals etc. Plus my skin is pretty thick so I could care less what people think about my comments here but I feel I just can't ignore the latest insult from my purchase of the aforementioned locomotives. Maybe it was a repack, maybe not, I THINK SO, but who cares? The folks at USA trains sent me to this seller so that says a lot about their stuff and their customer service. 

Today, after 9 months of owning the locos and only using them with another hook and loop coupled car to see how they run I finally took it down off the shelf and took off the Hook and loop couplers as supplied from the manufacturer and exchanged them with the supplied in the box USA train couplers. Everything looked fine and I followed the enclosed instructions to the letter and...THEY DON'T WORK. Not at all. They're chunks of S__T. I can't get them to couple up no matter how I finagle them or shim them. GARBAGE!!! 
I restate my former complaints from earliest posts about all the parts that fell off the units when i removed them from the box when I received them and the poorly fitting metal grills on the both the A and B units. I have since tightened the grilles down with thread to the inner support posts so they aren't all BOWED out all the time. I took the models apart and did as other's instructed and added a dollop of clear glue to the portholes so they don't fall out down the road. But this is the final insult, garbage couplers. My lousy Aristocraft couplers that everybody HATES ON may be too big for scale but at least they work and stay coupled all the time!!!! 
I've ordered Kadee 831 couplers for the locos so I can at least USE THEM. I'm sorry, your mileage may vary and you may think USA locos arfe greatest thing since sliced toast but for me, USA trains has been a total letdown. I f they were serious about customer satsifaction then they should've included Kadee couplers in the box...or nothing at all.


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## ROUTE 66 (Sep 26, 2008)

When you get that bad taste in your mouth from any name brand product it's hard to get rid of the taste and move on, or ever purchase again same brand of loco,the best couplers for any scale will always be Kadee.How do they run otherwise? I only have 1 usa loco a GP7 which has been a gem from day one and I would purchase again. All my rolling stock is USA or LGB brand. I wish you would have had a better experiance from the get go with your F3 and Charles ro(USAT)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The USAT couplers are a joke in my opinion. I have met a few people who do use them and get them to work. Their height is different, and the mechanism does not operate smoothly from my experience. 

But, when I found this out (I have 10 F3's now), I was also going through "coupler ****" with finding that you cannot mix and match Aristo, Bachmann, USAT, LGB all the time. 

So, coming from other scales, I looked at Kadee... wonder of wonders, they had a conversion for every loco I had. And, i preferred the USAT rolling stock, and there is the perfectly engineered pad for the Kadee 830 couplers. 

So I was out of coupler **** pretty fast. There are some disadvantages to Kadees, but overall they are the best for me, considering what I want. 

So, this aspect of USAT does not bother me. It might seem wasteful to have to change couplers, but other couplers often wear out and start coming apart, and you are buying replacements anyway. 

I do wish USAT would find a way to better secure some of the detail parts, but on the other hand, I can pull them off easily for work and maintenance. 

Overall with the few things that go wrong, as contrasted to the many drive train failures I have had on my Aristo locos, I'm happy with USAT. 

Regards, Greg


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