# More on the 4-4-0



## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, my D&RG version arrived yesterday from Gregory at RGSRR 
The running gear and switch over to slide values is quite an accomplishment. 
Worth waiting for. 

Close up, it has a bit of a tin plate feel to me. It is just asking for a 
wood cab with more depth to it. 

I thought I would keep it as D&RG, but now I will go back to my original plan 
to make it into "Tacoma Eastern" from some old photos that I have. 

very nice at the price 

jim


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

PS 
Anything to watch for from those out there who have been running for a while?


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Some smoke stacks are falling off as they were soft soldered......


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

The same thing happened to me with the NCNG Mogul. I contacted Cliff at Accucraft who sent me a replacement. I fired it up and within 30 minutes that one fell apart too. Sent the stack back to Cliff for examination. I currently have a straight stack on it. 

JT


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

UPDATE> I just spoke with Cliff at Accucraft on the phone. He said that there are a few engines with the Radley Hunter style stack that have reported an issue with the stacks falling apart /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif Cliff is talking to the factory about coming up with a solution. The problem is that all of the stacks that Acucraft has ever made have only been soft soldered; however, only the Radley Hunter stack seems to come apart with the normal heat of operation. One solution would be to silver solder the stacks, but with that option we would loose the etching detail on the stack. The other option would be to go to a turned stack, but again you would loose the detail, and they would take considerably longer to manufacture. Cliff assures me that he is working on a resolution. He will contact me as soon as he has a plan of action. If you are experiencing any problems with your Radley Hunter stack, please be patient for the next few days and I will post an update as soon as I get a call back from Cliff. If anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me.


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

I would think that a better solution for attaching stacks would be to design them with a threaded bottom that inserts into the smokebox, which is then held in place by a petticoat in the smokebox that is threaded to act as a nut to hold the stack in place. That's how my little Aster Baldwin was designed. I actually have a couple of different stacks that I can change out on a whim at a steamup. 


Scott


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

This problem of melted stacks also happens on the 2-6-0s soft soldering the stack assembly might work. but the basic problem is the over sized gas jet fitted..if relit with awarm gas tank after refueling the fire is ablowtorch out the smokebox..fitting smaller gas jet helps and lining the burner inside with a layer of fine S/S gauze..but silver soldering the stack body would be best.. 

one Ive repaired here now ahs arow of tiny rivets around the top flange to hold it together in case the solder melts agian. 
gordon.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon 
I like the way the Argyle SPC3 that you made does it's stack. I can remove it while lighting 
and then replace and it stays in great. Still luv that little engine.


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## switchback (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon, 
The Accucraft 4-4-0 looks to be a little bigger than your SPC3. I haven't placed them side-by-side so I could be all wrong. They should be close in size...right? 

I agree with a previous post that the wood cab sets the Argyle SPC3 apart as does the full Stephenson, and the tender pump. However, considering the price, Accucraft has made one fine looking locomotive (I have the NCNG Grass Valley). Soon, I will see how it runs. 

The 4-4-0 is my first Accucraft (I have a few Asters, Catatonks, Argyles, and a Roundhouse). I may buy a few more Accucrafts if my stack doesn't melt. 

Rick Hammack


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Just received a phone call from a fellow steamer that the cross head bolt broke loose. Not extend of the damage to the 0-6-0 as indicated by Nevada Bill yet possible design problem.


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll be designing a laser cut wood cab kit as soon as the 4-4-0 arrives here. Bronson Tate Architectural models will be able to cut it and send them out, same as the 4 Ruby/Ida cab kits we set up earlier this year. The current cab on the 4-4-0 is based on an inservice verison of SPC #3. The laser cut one will set up from original Baldwin design and can be polished naturally. I'll get onto it as soon as my 4-4-0 arrives. Lift of roof. 

David.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Inspection shows the crosshead /small end pin is a riveted [upset] inside , not a threaded bolt..as this will fail in service we will be doing a proper small end bolt before shipping these out to customers. 

gordon.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon 
Again great service from you as a dealer. I wish the US dealers would put forth such a quality control inspection along with making things right but more than that Accucraft needs to do this prior through beta testing outside their "show and tell" sessions.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

David, 

I'm looking forward to your wood cab designed for the 4-4-0. Any thoughts to making it so the cab roof can hinge and drop down on the fireman's side, like the factory one? I like this feature much better than a removable one--somehow I frequently find myself hurrying after a departing engine, cab roof in hand. 

BTW, my NCNG 4-4-0 looks and runs beautifully right out of the box. Thanks again for your efforts on the paint and graphics. This is a terrific engine for the money. 

Concerning the mainrod/crosshead wrist pin, they look to be similar to the ones on the AC 0-6-0s that may have a design problem (see the other forum post). So far, mine remain tight, but I will be keeping careful watch in case they start to wear loose. 

Larry


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon, 

After posting my comments, I now see yours. Could you post a sketch of your redesigned wrist pin when available? This would be most helpful and save the rest of us from having to start from scratch. Or, better yet, maybe Accucraft could work from your design to supply them for retrofitting. 

Larry


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

RESOLUTION > I just received a call back from Cliff at Accucraft. The solution that has been decided is to manufacture a batch of silver soldered versions of the Radley Hunter stack. It will most likely be about four weeks or so before Cliff will get the replacement stacks, but if you have any issues with your Radley Hunter stack coming apart please contact Cliff via phone and he will put you on the list to recieve a replacement stack when it arrives.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Forgive my ignorance, but the units with the Radley Hunter stacks are the NCNG and the unlettered black, correct?


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

Hey Dwight, The Radley Hunter stacks are on the NCNG and unlettered wood-burning version of the Mogul as well as the new 4-4-0 engines.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

The photos on Accucraft's web site show three different types of stacks on the 4-4-0s - hence my question. Are all these types affected by the soldering issue you mention? 

Thanks.


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

Here is a picture of the Radley Hunter stack that is effected. It is only this stack


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks JT.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Larry, 
Im not able to post pics or drawings..comletely computer illiterate..but I could mail adrawing when its done.. 

Rick, 
I compared the frames from our SPC3 and the Accucraft Model..same wheelbase, same overall dimension. but the cylinder centreline on ours is closer to the front driver by 4mm,, I used the drwaings from the Macgregor book on the SPC RR dont know what they used.. 


Gordon.


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## switchback (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon, 
I looked at your SPC3 and the Accucraft 4-4-0 again...I agree that the wheelbase and overall dimensions look equivalent. I think the diameter of the Accucraft boiler is greater. Your SPC3 looks more svelte. I need to take both locomotives outside for a side by side picture but it won't be tonight....I have two toddlers to watch while the wife is away. 

Rick Hammack


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Did anyone see their running boards not level? My engineers side slopes up about a 1/8" from middle to tip. Firemans side seems to be much better but still a bit sloped. Also noticed the tender is sloping down in the frone due to the base of the truck bushing being taller in the back than the front. Hmmmm I did shim the bolts to get actual pressure on the springs so it keeps from wobbeling all over. 

I did all my normal checks and fixes to het tonight - shortened the fuel line, cut the throttle extension so the know is closer to the tender and not so visable. Cut the top of the chuff pipe off and insulated the smokebox door Lubricated everything for the Saturday morning trials. 

David I'll have to take a photo of her and the Carter combine, looks fantastic. Amanda (the wife) really likes her new loco so we now can run the cars with it...hehe when I start on the coach that it


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## jtutwiler (May 29, 2008)

Kovacjr, I am curious; what's the purpose of cutting the chuff pipe? What length did you cut it to? What was your overall process?


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry, I doubt I'll be adding the sidways swing to the wood cab kits. From my standpoint, the jury is still out on whether the sideways swing roof is any good. I prefer the roofs that hinge forward, so I can get my hand in under the roof and control the engine manually through the yards and switches. My concern is the sideways swing may hit an train on an inside track. The lift off roof of our kits is a simple cork in the bottle type thing. 

I dont know which drawings Acc used, maybe the drawing in the Macgregor book, but the cab is not the same. The earlier prototype seemed to have an overshort wheel base, which was fixed before even the Disney versions went out. Other than the cab setup for a later era version, the proportions look good. I think they're a pretty good buy for what you get, and in terms of decoration, they really exceeded my expectations, they did a really great job of them. 

David.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Larry, 
Ok the small end crosshead pins are done..do you want adrawing? if so  Mail address please.. 

The interesting thing is the loco ran better after the fix..it removed a lot of the slack in the motion work, whcih in turn means the valve events are better. 

David. Ill send you aset of the Pins for yours.. no machining needed just dismantle and install the replacemnets. 

Gordon.


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

Great stuff Gordon, 
I wonder if the moguls crosshead pins are done the same way. Mine haven't failed yet, but my NCNG 2-6-0 has a bit of slop in the rods which causes a bind at slow speed on the rear wheel cranks. 

Thanks Gordon, I have no doubt we'll be running 4-4-0s at the next big steam up! 

David.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jay 
Seems I heard this a couple of engines ago: 
"Amanda (the wife) really likes her new loco so we now can run the cars with it...hehe when I start on the coach that it"


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Um My process is just a cut off disc on the dremel....Height I start high and see how it sounds. Righjt nor it is flush with the inside top step on the stack. Ill see how it sounds and go from there. Im hoping that the open pipe directs more heat away from the stack to keep from melting. It also gices a actual plume.


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## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Kovacjr on 06/26/2008 8:21 PM
.... cut the throttle extension so the know is closer to the tender and not so visable. 




Jay - Did you shorten the throttle or gas extension? If you shortened the throttle it would be closer to the cab/boiler, so I assume you mean the gas. I wish my throttle extension was _longer_ on the Lilly Bell 4-4-0.... I have to lift the cab roof every time to adjust it. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave 
When you wish upon a star....


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I wish my throttle extension was longer on the Lilly Bell 4-4-0.... I have to lift the cab roof every time to adjust it.
I would think it would be easy enough to extend - an additional shaft and a coupling tube with two set screws.


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Dave, 
keep me posted on the wood cab replacement 
jim


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight 
You get a star of the day...David now can see the way!


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon, 
Thanks. My address should be waiting in your MLS mailbox. 

Jason, 
After your comment, I checked my running boards--they are both level. Also, my tender rides fine. 
The only things I have found so far to pick at are a paint nick on the pilot, and the clear finish on the left cylinder brass jacket is peeling off after 3 hours. Overall, I am very satisfied so far with mine. Better be, after waiting three years for it! (Oops, I wasn't supposed to get into that anymore.) 

Larry


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry, 

At least you have gotten your hands on yours..... Mine arrived 6/24, the day after I left from a two day visit to home (the first in six weeks). 

Oh well, at least I will be able to get my hands on mine before the end of July. I can't wait to line up a green SPC #3 with my freight SPC #13. However, I'm sure I'll get to see lots of 4-4-0s in Sacto at the National Summer Steam-up. 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan - did you add the extra sand dome to #13? I'd be very interested in seeing photos of your SPC locos - either posted here or via email.


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, 

Yes, the sand dome was added along with doing air pump and side rod mods. My son Jeff and Charles are packing locomotives this weekend to get them to the National Summer Steam-up. Jeff was up last weekend to pick up #13 so it will be there! And I talked with Gary Watkins of Sierra Valley and there may even be an SPC caboose #3 to join forces. 

BTW, I can't wait to finally meet you and see NPC #21. 

Best regards, 

Alan 

PS My dad Clark from Newark is planning to drive up. He's registered with Sonny, and the plans are for him to acquire some burned fingers (at age 91)


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon, 
While you are on and off this thread,could I do something to the Argyle SPC3 to improve chuff without 
hurting it's performance. Has a pretty decent chuff now, but was curious to what you think. I sure do not want to change what you have made. 
Art


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