# Best way to remove snow?



## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Hello all,

Well, tis the season here in Michigan and I was looking for some input on the best way to remove snow off from the track from a "I want to run it" perspective?

I have heard that rotary's can gum up in wet snow but that's about my extent of knowledge on them. Also, how wide do you typically go (either with a rotary or with a plow)?

Thanks

Rich


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I just use a little homemade plow. It works with a few inches of snow but for the bigger snow I took a kids snow shovel and cut it so it is a little wider then the tracks. From their it is all man power. It works great and looks like a train plowed it when done. Eventually I want to make another plow or buy one.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

When conditions aren't right for a plow, which is most of the time here in northern Virginia, I use a small plastic shovel that I got at an outdoor store. This is the kind Cross country skiers or winter backpackers carry. The blade is about 8 inches across.

WHAT EVER YOU DO, "*DO NOT USE A METAL SHOVEL*". It will scratch the rails and do real damage to items buried in the snow near the track, that you can't see, such as switch stands.

Also it is a good idea to let the engines and cars adjust to the outside temperature before running. If they are warm and pick up any snow that will shortly freeze and the wheels won't roll.

Chuck


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Move south!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm indoors... dust bunnies don't seem to hurt much, at least for a few years - until they grow into them huge attack ones, and derail the train


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

A childs beach sand shovel and a wide paint brush. A wide paint Brush is what I use to remove Desert Crap from my rails. Or also a Toliet brush. The toliet brush some times takes ballast with it.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I myself find if you PEE on it it goes away quickly


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

When you plant ,install any thing near the tracks It's good to know which shovel and how wide of a path you need when you do use it. 
It's also good to know where you switch/throws are because they come up just as good as the snow ( don't ask) 
I us the Aristo plow that has been modified! 
















Works great in the dry fluffy stuff. 
When we get the heavy or 8" or more it's shovel time! 
But It's so much fun ( feel like a kid ) 
Sean


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Sean:

I agree with you. Those desert rats don't know what they are missing. 

Here are some pictures of a former LGB White Pass diesel in the snow. 






















Chuck


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well when we do get snow I just plow it.










Later RJD


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Sean, 
Very nice plow! What kind of engines do you have to put behind it to push the snow? Also, has anyone tried pushing snow with a Climax? Thanks 
Rich


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello Rich 
I remember when you got your Climax because I was getting one about the same time. I know you agree what a great engine they are with all the detail, moving bits, and don't forget that cool firebox flicker. For me it is all the fine details that would keep me from putting this engine out in inclimate weather to possibly pick up "a cold". It would be a real shame if the dampness got into the firebox wiring and shorted it out for example. I have not heard much about Bachmanns engines and how well they are sealed against dampness but I'm sure there are guys here with experience. 
The Climax does seem like a great choice to push a plow because of it's power but I just love mine too much to put it in harms way. 
Todd


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

I keep my Shay and Climax away from the snow. 
Just us USA's engines. 
I usually run any were from 2 to 4 engines! 
All have lead inside the fuel tanks! 
I do replace the detail parts is the spring when the snow melts and I can FIND them!


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

When it's too deep to plow, I found a five by five inch wide wooden blade on the end of long (about six feet) handle works best. The wooden blade is easy on the trackwork; the long handle means you don't have to stoop, and your boots don't mess the scenery, ruining all those fabulous photo ops.


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

After I shovel I run the rotary or the plow to clean up the wright of way! 
Cleans up any shoe prints nicely! 
Living in a snow belt you learn things. 
First snow you have to over clean , so when every thing freezes you still have a place to move the snow to.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Sean, 
If I am not correct that is a picture of your snow plow in the February Garden Railway magazine! CONGRATS! 
Rich


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## coyote97 (Apr 5, 2009)

I like Seans plow!
that is a very fine idea to make the well known plow efficient even for 1.20,3 scalers!

Frank


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What do you meeeeaaaaan We Desert Rats don't know what we are missing?







A lot of us were born and raised in chicago area That is why we are in the desert.









A lot of people are down here to miss that stuff.










Hey guys those are some great pictures. 


PS You need to get a coat for that guy standing next to the plow. He aint gona last a week in that weather have nakid.


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## Tom Lapointe (Jan 2, 2008)

The Aristo wedge plow works pretty decently in snowfalls up to @ 4" or so; above that amount, I've hand shoveled a bit (railroad is elevated @ 2 feet above ground). The suggestions for using a small plastic shovel are probably a good idea (I amputated







an LGB grade crossing signal post last year when I started clearing the railroad with a conventional-sized shovel; the snow was deep enough that the LGB crossing was *totally buried & invisible *until I hit it with the shovel!







). 

Since the "Watuppa Railway's" mainline has a 3% ruling grade (& plowing is usually started near the low end of the grade, where a sidewalk permits carrying locos easily to the layout), I've found that plowing is most reliably done with *2 locos *(either electrically powered or live steam) shoving the plow *(also recommend using the most powererful locos you have available). *Here's a couple of videos from year's past (the first 1, plowing with a Bachmann 2-truck Shay & Heisler, both running on DCC track power; the second, plowing with a pair of radio-controlled Accucraft live-steam Shays







):





Here's the live-steam version from last year (since both locos are *independently radio-controlled, *my visiting Uncle Ray was "invited"







to "engineer" the trailing Shay (# 5); this was *true "double-heading" - *hence all the *"Go-ahead-&-back-up!" *







verbal instructions.) I ran the lead Shay (Mich-Cal #2 with an RC transmitter in 1 hand, & the camcorder in my other!











Depends on the weather, also; some days after plowing out the driveway with the snowblower, if it's excessively cold, enthusiasm for clearing the railroad may be lacking.
















*Tom*


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

here in denver 
when snowis light and fresh and not too deep 
i can use either my LGB anvil plow or the LGB snow plow with flashing lights 

i have found the key to using trains to plow sucessfully is -lots of weight in the plow-and lots of push-i use either 2 WPY diesels or 2 genesis 

when its gets too wet or too deep -the trains really have to work -and not always too well 

while i don thave the aristo plow gondola-its looks like its possibly the best commercially available 

the process it self is the fun 
light ice and forzen rail can make it tedious 

down and dirty-use a small plastic shovel as noted- i use my mountatineering rescue shovel made of lexan-using a shovel is far quicker and does the job and you can still use a plow


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 29 Dec 2009 08:44 PM 
I myself find if you PEE on it it goes away quickly

















Be careful with that if you are running track power at a constant high voltage...


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

I didn't do garden railroad while up in Michigan with its 2' or more snow falls overnight (I wish I had but that was really a different life up there). They are forecasting "snow" here in Alabama on Thursday ... if we get any, I'll have to get something out on the tracks and get some pictures. I am not expecting much of a photo op for this though but everyone is up in arms about it and ridding the stores of loaves of bread. 

My standard cleaning tool has become the old fashion wisk broom which I am sure would be good for at least 4" of powdery snow ... maybe an inch of of the heavy stuff. It also does a great job on pine needles without completely dislodging all the track ballast. It also won't take out switch machines.


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4250457851/

Rich, here is my efforts at plowing snow in Kalamazoo. This past week or so I gave up on plowing because it got to be too cold outside to stand around and play with the trains. I noticed that ice was forming on the rails very soon after plowing. It wasn't a case of the locomotives and plow being warm since They stay out in the cold all the time. I think the temperature was just right for ice to form on metal surfaces.
Bob in Kalamazoo
ps, are you going to the Riverbend train show this Saturday? It would be good to see you there if you are.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Bob, 
Cool pictures! (and not from a temperature perspective!) 

Yes, I will be at the train show, see you there! 
Rich


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob:

You have discovered one of the major limitations of running in the snow at below freezing temperatures. This is a good argument for battery or live steam in the dead of winter. I have taken a ice scraper to remove the thin film of ice from the top of the rails, after the train made one loop and stopped. As long as it isn't snowing this will work. 


The pressure of the weight of the engines and cars causes any snow left on the rails to melt as the train passes over the snow. This is called pressure melting. This then immediately freezes after the train passes. This is similar to the thin film of water that forms under an ice skate to lubricate the surface of the ice. If it is really cold ice skaters have trouble skating because the film of water doesn't develop. It is like skating on glass. If it is that cold (I think that this problem happens below about -25 or 30 F), I can' imagine being out side skating!! 


Chuck


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Chuck, I do have one locomotive that I converted to battery and the problem with it was it would also ice up the rails and not be able to make it up and grades or push any snow if more had fallen. Thanks for pointing out about the weight of the train on the snow causing it to melt and leaving a thin film of water that quickly freezes. I should have realized that, but I was too cold and tired of playing around trying to get my railroad plowed. I've taught the ice skating principle in physics classes myself. But when you are frustrated and cold and miserable, you just don't think of those things.
Bob in Kalamazoo


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob:

Unfortunately, ice on the rails does affect traction as well as conductivity. If there is snow (dry powder) around the tracks, it is very difficult to keep it from getting on the rails even if you scrape them with a piece of plastic ( I once used a credit card). If the rails can be kept clear of snow, I think that the trains really look great running with snow alongside and between the rails, just not on top. I don't have a lot of problems if it is a wet snow. That tends to stay in place.


As a physics teacher, do you know the temperature where pressure melting stops at atmospheric pressure (I was just guessing in my previous post)?

Chuck


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## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Posted By chuck n on 06 Jan 2010 01:11 PM 
Bob:

Unfortunately, ice on the rails does affect traction as well as conductivity. If there is snow around the tracks, it is very difficult to keep it from getting on the rails even if you scrape them with a piece of plastic ( I once used a credit card). If the rails can be keep clear of snow, I think that the trains really look great running with snow alongside and between the rails, just not on top. 

As a physics teacher, do you know the temperature where pressure melting stops at atmospheric pressure (I was just guessing in my previous post)?

Chuck 

Ok, I haven't thought this through too carefully so if I screw it up please forgive me. Atmospheric pressure is about 14.7 lbs/sq in. Adding one atmosphere of pressure (another 14.7 lbs/sq in) lowers the melting point only 0.007 degrees C. Or about 0.0126 degrees F. So, a 14.7 lb locomotive would melt snow under it if the wheels are only supporting it with very little contact surface. Since wheels are round the point of contact is extreamly small and so there is considerable pressure under the wheels. How much would be a guess at this point. And we would have some hear generated by the friction between wheels and track that would also contribute to the melting of the snow. There is probably someone on this forum who has looked into this more and can add much to what I've said. 
Bob


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I've used the aristo plow in snow up to 12" .


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob:

Thanks for the response. Pressure at a small point can cause a lot of damage. I remember once reading about how difficult it was for aeronautical engineers to design the isle in an airplane to prevent denting from the spiked heels of a 100 lb. woman walking to her seat, through all the possible movements of an airplane.

I thought that there was a specific temperature where ice skating became a problem, it may depend on more than the temperature. Perhaps the "fridge" could skate at lower temperatures than an Olympic figure skater (that's a potential question for your students).


Chuck


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck 
When the conditions that you described are present I run the Aristo track cleaning caboose ( pad has dry wall sanding pad on it) in the plow extra! 
This works to some extent! 
Still fun!!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I usually use a ScotchBrite (green) pad on a dry wall sander to clean the track. I'll try it next time I have an icing problem.

Chuck


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