# 3.5" guage - 3/4" scale questions



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Since I am getting into this gauge and scale I wanted to look into the standards and standard operating procedures for it. I found the NMRA standards here:

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/consist.html

Are these the ones most people follow? Are there others? When I did a Google search only the NMRA stuff showed up. 


Another question I was thinking about is the best method for firing the boiler. I know that many people use coal and propane (butane as well?). I was wondering has anyone used wood, mostly because the engines I'm interested in mostly burned wood? Or is wood not used because it doesn't scale well?


And finally my last question.







This scale is usually considered 1:16, although when I did the calculations it turned out to be 1:16.14. Do they just round it down because it's so close anyway? 

Thanks,

Jason


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Not sure about the standards people use. In these sizes, I've only heard people referring to 3/4" scale, 1" scale, and 1-1/2" scale - or they refer to the gauge - I've never personally heard many refer to the scale ratio (i.e. 1/8th scale for 1-1/2" scale). Then again, I'm rather new to these sizes myself. 

Kozo wrote most of his books for 3/4" scale. They may help you out. 

I think the reason most people don't burn wood is that it is far less efficient than, say, coal in terms of the amount of heat produced. However, I have seen videos of guys wood-firing a 1-1/2" scale 4-4-0, and I want to try that myself. It probably just takes more effort to keep the fire hot and the steam pressure up when using wood, but that's just a semi-educated guess.


----------



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks Dwight, 

I was thinking of your engine, it would be perfect to burn wood in it. Please let us know how it works when you try it. Maybe people don't want to have to deal with the sparks as well? 

I noticed that they don't talk about the scale ratio as well. I like it because it makes it easy to convert measurements from the prototypes. I have been eye-balling Kozo's books for a while, but I don't have the funds right now. I will get them eventually.


----------



## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

Most clubs follow the IBLS standards for the larger scales. http://www.svls.org/ibls.htm


----------



## dennisintexas (Jun 24, 2009)

3.5 inch gauge is the Rodney Dangerfied of gauges. It just doesn't get any respect. Going down one step; there is 2 1/2" guage for live steam ride behind also known as Gauge 3 for operating models, this is known as the transitional gauge. That is both a riding gauge and a operating gauge such as our Gauge 1. There is no reason that 3 1/2" can't be used both ways as well. In the UK, there is a following for 3 1/2" gauge trams (trolleys) that produces some beautiful work. There is also an active number of clubs with 3 1/2" riding tracks. In the US therre are a number of clubs witingh ride behind elevated tracks, one just has to look for them. Once a year, there is a Small Scale Live Steam meet in California with a large number of 3 1/2" gauge engines. There are a numbe of tracks in the east of the US, a few in the midwest and a number in the west. Kozo's books have caused a revivial of interest and the bringing of the old Friends Models back to the market has helped. AJ Reeves and Blackgates in the UK have always carried castings. The nice thing about this size is a 7x10 lathe and a mini mill can take care of most machine work. 
Here in Houston Texas, we are bringing 3 1/2" gauge to the HALS track. Houston had an active group of 3 1/2" folks in the seventys and we hope to get it going again. It makes a nice bridge between Gauge 1 Live Steam and 4 3/4-7 1/2" equipment. 
Note: 3 /4" scale is 1:16 a fairly popular scale for things in addition to engines.


----------



## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

Hi Dennis, 
That is good news about HALS and a 3 1/2" track. 

I have a 7/8" scale Shay on my drafting board for 3 1/2" track. The prototype gauge for S/N 825 was 48" and that makes the gauge scale combination work out. 

Dan


----------



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Thanks Slipped that is perfect. What does IBLS stand for? 

Dennis - thanks it's good to know. I'm in Alaska so it's going to be up to me to build the track.  I don't have plans on riding behind any of my engines but it is nice to know it can be done.


----------



## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Grimm on 08 Feb 2011 06:23 PM 
What does IBLS stand for? 

International Brotherhood of Live Steamers


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a point - but Kozo's books do not refer to standard gauge locomotives, but to narrow gauge locomotives that can run on lines 3.5" apart. As such, they can be pretty hefty and powerful items for the rather miniscule gauge. Compare a British standard gauge locomotive running on 3.5" tracks with Kozo's Shay and you'll see what I mean. 

Needless to say, the same applies here in Europe, but it's fair to say, looking at the some of the wonderful exhibits at last month's ME exhibition at Alexandra Palace, that most interest in this gauge revolves around models of standard gauge locomotives. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


----------



## Dan Rowe (Mar 8, 2009)

Posted By tacfoley on 09 Feb 2011 03:17 AM 
Just a point - but Kozo's books do not refer to standard gauge locomotives, but to narrow gauge locomotives that can run on lines 3.5" apart.

The logic of mathmatecs leads me to doubt this statement. ALL of Kozo's locos are 3/4" scale and they ALL run on 3 1/2" track by mathmatical definition that gives them a prototype gauge of 56" which is close enough to standard gauge for most folks.
Dan
SA 13.7


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason,where are you located? 3/4" scale, 3-1/2" gauge has always been popular here in the northeast and Canada, and many ride-on clubs (including NJLS) have active tracks. Visiting such a club is your best way to become familiar with what's out there for this scale. 

Larry


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, I just reread the posts and see you are in Alaska. Google the Alaska Live Steamers. I'm sure they will be able to help with your questions. 

Larry


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

3.5" gauge is kind of the cut over point to "ride-on" type engines. They are generally in a different league then what we do in Gauge 1. Boiler pressures are higher, 80-100 PSI. Usually coal fired or propane (vise butane). More conventional loco type boilers with stayed fire boxes. They include more plumbing, such as 2 means to put water in the boiler, water gauge, 2 safety valves. Mechanical lubricators most likely. Intl Brotherhood of Live Steamers (IBLS) is the only standard for wheels and coupler heights. Chassis is more robust with some kind of suspension or equalization on the wheels.

If you run at a club, it is possible they will require a boiler inspection on an annual basis. The 7.5/7.25 gauge clubs almost always require inspections and may carry those rules over to the 3.5" and 4.75" gauge too.

Kozo Hiraoka is the authority on 3.5" gauge. LBSC (Lillian "Curly" Lawrence) is the old school British master. His "Tich" loco is probably the most widely made 3.5" gauge ever. Martin Evans is another great UK author. William Morewood designed and built the "Raritan". Kozo built the Raritan too.

I like 3.5" It would be fun to have a Tich running around. Unfortunately none around here.


----------



## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

By the way, check out these guys:

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/

They have a good 3.5" gauge crowd.

Dwight is hanging out there too now that he's "smitten" with 7.5"


----------



## Grimm (Oct 5, 2009)

Richard - thanks that's perfect.









Larry - I will look them up. Looking at their website it says they only have 7.5" gauge track, no 3.5".







That and they are about 300 miles away from me. *sigh* That's the problem with living in the largest state in the union, everything is so far away.

Bob - thanks again for a very cool website link. You should put in some 3.5" track, like me.


----------



## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

I am building equipment in this gauge for both passenger hauling and display/operation. I also have plans on the board to do a full garden railroad in dual 4.75 and 3.5" gauge and I have a stack of track in my back yard to get the project started. My current project is an 1 1/2" scale conversion of an OS Krauss into an American style logging 0-4-0. See the progress here: Amerikrauss

I really like 3.5" gauge, and 4.75" gauge for that matter. I think they are ideal gauges for a home, ride on garden railroad. Not to mention they are nice transitional gauges from gauge 1. I think it's a bit funny that there is such a "bigger is always better" attitude here in the US. We like our huge cars and our huge houses and our huge 7.5" gauge locomotives with riding cars that have huge stupid looking boat seats attached to them. I prefer a bit more of a scale approach to ride on trains-- that's the theory anyways, I'm just getting started on this project and I have not yet installed any track.

I got my track for free on Craigslist BTW-- what a deal!

Regards,


----------

