# QSI Rough Start



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I thought I have seen this talked about before, but could not find it. After installing a QSI decoder in a Aristo Dash-9 it has a rough start then smooths out. Can I correct this with a program change.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To give you a short answer: not much unless you turn BEMF off. What loco is this? 

Regards, Greg


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have the same QSI problem with my RS-3. Hope you can help Greg otherwise will try a Lok Sound XL.
Alan


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

It is an Aristo Dash-9 with the Plug and Play socket.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The problem is most evident in 2 motor or greater systems. 

If you turn off BEMF, it goes away completely. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. The -9 sound file is recorded at a lower volume than most, if you re-program the board, kick the volume up on the prime mover.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

How do I turn off the BEMF?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Do you have the programmer or DCC? 

Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I have the QSI programmer and a Massoth system.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Cool, set CV 56.4 to 0 .... 

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Greg, that did it. Smoothed the operation right out. Thanks much. I was on a roll today so I also put one in a Aristo C-16, I love the install 5 minutes you do have to take the Tender shell off. It runs smooth, but backward. I found the reverse button in the program, no problem. So next hook up to my Massoth control all works good until I throtle to zero, the C-16 keeps crawling. Why would it work with the cab under computer control but not the Massoth.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I had the problem with a loco continuing to crawl with a QSI decoder as well.

The solution is the same, turn off the BEMF.

QSI still has some work to do to get their BEMF system working properly

BTW, the LokSound V3.5 (HO sized) decoder works VERY well, I am quite pleased with it. I assume that the larger, and significantly more expensive, LokSound XL will work well too.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, although you can fix the problem you saw with PID parameters, and leave BEMF on. 

Regards, Greg


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

The Loksound XL is an excellent decoder. I've used it in four different installs and have the programmer which is very powerful. I just wish it was more competitively priced, but perhaps you get what you pay for?

Peter.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike, you may still have some momentum set, check CV's 3 and 4... set them both to zero to see if that eliminates what you said. By default the QSI's are set with realistic momentum settings, not toy train instant off and on. 

By the way all, the small amount of jerkiness when starting is not noticed by everyone, so let's not blow it up into a mountain. I tried making a video of it, and I could not show it on a video, that's how minor it is. 

The surging is a completely different situation and occurs when you have a very low impedence motor, or a freewheeling setup, or lots of slack in the gear train, and can be eliminated with settings. 

QSI is working on these issues so the default program will eliminate this and the BEMF can be left on. 

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I continued to make changes to the Dash-9, now the motor will not run at all. I'll do a complete reset to the decoder and see if I can get it back.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike, I've done some extensive work on programming this decoder. If you want to play with the PID parameters, I have a "pre-release" firmware that allows setting of all 3, but you can really make the loco run weird... I was making mine emulate a worn engine! 

I'll bet you got yours such that the sound can throttle up and down, but the loco does not move... do the full reset, that will clear it.... it seems that it got into the "disconnect" mode you enter by pressing F9 twice.... I've seen this. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

If the reset does not work, Then reprogram the board. Later RJD


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks Greg setting 56.4 to 0 sloved jerky starts in my E8, LGB genesis and dash 9. I also set cv 2 to 22 for the LGB and 18 for the aristo. Now they start slow on 1 and run smooth. Will turning off BEMF increase top speed? Sorry about typing errors -droped glasses!


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

Just curious, but does turning off the BEMF basically disable the Regulated Throttle Control features? RTC is one of the cool features of this unit, and would be ashame if it has to be disabled until a fix... 
thanks! 
-Ray


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Turning off BEMF should not affect top speed, when it's flat out, should be the same. 

RTC = BEMF mode, wording is funny because of "threatened" suit from MTH. MTH never sued, but claimed BEMF for themselves. That situation is apparently past now. 

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I did the reset on the decoder, in the Dash 9 and got it all back. All is good. Their is so much built into these decoders it can get very confusing. However the ease of installation and the cost for a decoder and sound system is very appealing.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm sold on them, and improvements and additional features are coming. 

Glad all is well. 

Greg


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## John Roppel (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
QSI is addressing the BEMF problem? when I talked with them at the York show they made it sound like there was no problem. I like the board, I just do not want invest anymore down the QSI road if they are not planing on fixing the BEMF. everything else about them I like. the current board is in an arsto GP40 

thanks 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

John, who did you talk to? 

QSI Industries - manufacturer of the board 
QSI Solutions - retailers of the board 

Two completely different companies, and depending on who you talk to, they may not be aware of the problem. 

Not all the guys at Tony's Train Exchange (Tony Parisi owns QSI solutions) are aware of the G scale problem. 

It's a problem that QSI Industries, the engineering people, need to address, but I have never seen them at shows... they prefer to be a manufacturer as I understand it. 

I'll hope to have some progress next week and will report in. 

Regards, Greg


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## John Roppel (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
it was QSI solutions that was at the show. So QSI Industries is addressing the problem? 
I look forward to hearing what you find out. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, QSI solutions contracts with QSI industries to make the product. QSI Industries does the design and engineering. I have talked to the "S" in QSI, but I always go through Tony first, since he is the "customer". Tony is aware of the situation, which seems to affect only multiple-motored locos. 

Regards, Greg


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## John Roppel (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
any word on the BEMF? 
also can you ask them if they are working on sounds for backmans thomas the tank? I did send in a request form. 

thank you 

John Roppel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The BEMF is the major problem and will be fixed. The new product will be software compatible with the HO units, thus whatever is in HO we will get. Not sure that this would be a high priority. 

First, I think they will make sure they have all the Aristo and USAT sounds. The doodlebug is one that comes to mind that is often requested. All the USAT locos need to be supported. 

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Any word on the USAT board from QSI.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I asked Tony last week and he said "three months"


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope you are right. Kind of heard that several months back. Later RJD


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