# What should my first purchase be?



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

This might be fun. I made a big mistake on my Federal Income Tax. Today, the government of the Good Ol' USA sent me a check for $916 due to my overpayment error. I am now 3 weeks into my large scale research and have pretty much settled on 1:29 scale to start. I'm looking for suggestions as to what I should buy first with this money that I didn't think I had. Thanks for your input.
Ken Silva
Phoenix, AZ 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


----------



## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Just to get started & running........\ 
I'd buy a PIKO G Taurus DC Engine ($200+ shipping)..... An MRC G 10 amp DC Power pack($170) ..... an 8 foot Diameter loop of 332 Brass Track..... & 332 Split Jaw rail clamps..... 
and a few used/less expensive Freight cars.... with a mix of Hook & loop and Knuckle couplers...... You will need one or two 
"transition" box cars with knuckle at one end and hook & loop at other end(Just a Truck swap)...... I'd probably replace plastic wheels with steel at $20 per Freight car.... later.. 
Look at RLD Hobbies(IL)..... WholeSale Trains NY... Train World(NY) & Kidmann Nursery(IA)...... as Good Typical G Garden Dealers... 

Dennis M from GBay, WI


----------



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks Dennis. I'll look at those suggestions. By the way, the coupler situation in G gauge looks like a mess. Can I put Kadees on everything? If I stick to USA Trains and Aristo Craft, will couplers be a problem? 
Ken S.


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

You need to answer these questions for yourself 
How much space do you envision to start? Smaller space = sharper curves = smaller equipment to look good. 
Steam or diesel? 
Freight or passenger trains? 
Analog, DCC, or battery control? Analog is the cheapest. Converting to DCC or battery may require some rewiring. 

Aristo-Craft starter sets offer a good value, if you have a smallish space --- but if you want to model Class 1 mainline, then you'll soon outgrow it. 

Basic needs are: a loco, track, a few cars, and a power pack (if analog) 
Used can be a good value if you shop smart. If not you can easily get burned. 

These may help: 
http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/budget.html 
http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/tips2.html


----------



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

I have enough room for an over-and-under figure 8 that will support one short freight train. I can do 9 foot diameter curves for the loops. I hope to find an 0-8-0 Indiana Harbor Belt. I remember the American Flyer set from the 1950's and would like to re-create it in my back yard. Just a continuous run without any sidings. Perhaps an F3 or GP9 too, just for variety. But nothing larger for a loco. I'm thinking battery, because trying to run electricity through the rails outside seems like a battle that isn't winnable. I'm thinking code 332 brass for durability. No concrete roadbed, perhaps just float the track on ballast, since the ground doesn't freeze here. This weekend, I'll be checking out the big train club in north Phoenix to get their opinions. I can't wait. And that refund check is burning a hole in my pocket! 
Ken S.


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The new(ish) Aristo Consolidation might fit with your wants (Even though it's actually a B&O prototype).... Unfortunately, at $500-700. it would also put a serious dent in your windfall. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARISTO-CRAF...285665?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item41655a3821


----------



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

You might modify Aristos 2-8-0 into an 0-8-0. If by that particular engine I can assume a post war era interest. My suggestion would be if kibashing isnt your thing, how about an RS-3, GP-9, or SW switcher to start with. The engine cost will still give you money for track and control system. I would START with keeping the LGB hook loop couplers then upgrade to kadees as time and money allow. Also buy your freight rolling stock second hand on ebay will also save alot of money just make sure your checking Auctons Only and avoid the crooks selling only overpriced BIN items.


----------



## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

STOP!!!!!!!!!!!! Since you are in Phoenix join the local G scale club the Arizona Big Train Operators @ http://azbigtrains.org/ We have a auction of donated G scale stuff every year and this year the auction is the 19th of May. Usually the club president provides a list of all the stuff to auction off but this year he said that there was to much to list. (I think we had a couple of big collections donated to us). We also provide assistance to new club members getting started.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Is the ABTO auction open to club members only,.. or anyone from AZ? 

I just ran with Your Club last Sat night.... :~} I was paired up with Jim Ingram...


Too much to list sounds inviting? 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


----------



## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

One thing I've noticed in the G world, a lot of people buy a lot of stuff - and never use it. Buying used can be a great way to expand one's collection quickly. 

Robert


----------



## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Good advice. Put the money away and join a club to get the "feel" for G. Ask a lot of questions. Observe running layouts before you buy. I run Aristo and USA becuse of the era thait I am interested in. I also have a 1:20.3 train that I get to run on the Sundance Central. I have been into large scale since 1993, and am still learning.


----------



## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

Only open to club members has never been discussed. You can attend 2 meetings as a guest so I would just show up and tell the president that you are thinking about joining. I would bring cash as they might not take your check if you aren't a member. That also keeps you from spending to much money at one time.


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

My advice for 1:29 - is don't buy a set! 
You'll be happier in the long run if you buy the trains you really want. Be sure to buy only the broad track curves such as 10ft dia or bigger..maybe 8ft in a pinch. And for locomotives, try something with 4 axles to start in the diesel department...all of the 4 axle Aristos and USAs are nice. But if you want a 1:29 steam engine, I'd skip right over into the AML live steam 0-6-0!


----------



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Hi, s-4. The rules for buying HO are a lot like buying for A, (which is what I should call 1:29 to avoid confusion, based on my research), it seems. I measured out my space today, and I can fit 10' diameter curves. I guess that 18" radius in HO is like 8' diameter in A? And 10' diameter is like 24" radius in HO? I'm partial to F3s and GP9s, so locos shouldn't be a problem. Live steam is for my next hobby, not this one. This one will be battery or track power, not having decided between them yet. My major issue right now is figuring out how to put in the roadbed and how to do mountains without concrete. The research continues. 
Ken Silva 
Phoenix, AZ


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By s-4 on 04 May 2012 07:52 PM 
...
... Be sure to buy only the broad track curves such as 10ft dia or bigger..maybe 8ft in a pinch. ...... But if you want a 1:29 steam engine, I'd skip right over into the AML live steam 0-6-0! 
You know. I honestly believe you were trying to help, but I can't help but think this kind of stuff will scare off a LOT more newbs than it inspires.

If you have more money than Trump, and more land than a Patagonian cattle baron, great!

The rest of us poor mortals probably should realistically assess our resources. You CAN run large scale trains on 4 foot DIAMETER curves. Yes, it often looks funny, it also limits what you CAN run. But if that's all that fits your SPACE or BUDGET, then it's probably better "toy' trains than NO trains. 



I get a lot of compliments on my layout and most of it is 5 foot diameter curves which were well used when I got them, and stuff I built from other folks' discards. I've found a winding layout with sharper curves is usually more interesting to most folks longer than a wide radius circle But your mileage may vary. The really nice thing about LS is rule 8* still holds: as long as you are happy with it, then it's 'right'. 


THAT said, some choices do force others. LGB diesels are supposed to be able to do the really sharp curves, the Aristo FA1 will stay on, but needs 6.5 foot curves to actually pull anything. And, yes, most of the other 4 axles diesels and 1:29 8 coupled locos aren't real happy on anything smaller than 8 footers. 


*Rule 8 (It's MY railroad and I will run what I like how I like - and if YOU don't like, then you're welcome to go home)


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I would buy a set, it gives you everything to get started and can be a Xmas tree layout. 

You can always sell what you do not need later. 

Some LGB sets came with rolling stock only, no track or power pack!!! 


So, biggest decision can be what you want to run, and how to run it.....era, diesel/steam, track power (DC or DCC) or battery or live steam. 

But no matter what you decide, a wireless control system for me is a must!!!


----------



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I just have to jump in here with my 2 cents. I agree with Dan that you should buy a starter set to get yourself going. and Once you get going with a larger layout outside a wireless control system is a good idea. 
Choose if you like steam or diesel then choose a set like a LGB, USAT or Aristo. Most of us started with a starter set and most still bring them out for the holidays, some use them all year round. To make that little circle of track more interesting buy a couple of switches and extra track then you can actually operate your RR. If you have the room you and your modern equipment will appreciate using at least 8' curves on your mainline. 
You will find your interest will take off and that is when you need to be selective in your purchases. If you do make a mistake but bought it at a good price you will always be able to resell and recoop alot of your money. It is amazing how these trains hold their value. 
Do check out a club, read and ask more questions on this forum, subscribe ot Garden Railways magazine, check out Ebay and train shows for used items but get a good feel for prices before you start buying so you don't get burned. 
Good luck and Happy RRing


----------



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks for your 2cents, ccT. The local large scale club agrees with you to do wireless control. I'll do either AristoCraft or USA Trains battery, too, as those are my target lines. I see that I can get an 8' circle of Bachmann brass for $154. That seems pretty good to me, but I can fit a 10' diameter in my yard. Do you guys think 10' should be a minimum if running GP9 and F3 in 1:29 scale? Or, would 8' be OK? Ken S.


----------



## kleinbahn (Sep 21, 2010)

First thing to buy.....track. Cheapo locomotive deals will come along soon enough.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd recommend putting your $$ in a savings account and do more research on what you want your layout to do. 

You really need to make the fundamental decision of battery vs. track power. 

Each has advantages and disadvantages. A tip... ask the battery guys on what things are better under track power. 

Now ask the track power guys what advantages battery power has. 

If either advocate you speak to can't see ANY advantages in the other system, get someone else to listen to. 

Think about how big your layout will be when it is done, think about how many trains you will run at the same time. 

When you finally figure this out, then select the track most suited to your needs. 

In the mean time, buy your GP7, set up a small loop of brass track, and get an inexpensive power supply and run a few trains. Go 10 foot min diameter if you can. 

Greg


----------



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Since the OP has expressed his interest in engine and track, F3/GP9 and 10'the dia. I would say he's already got a good starting point 
The biggest issue with track is cost. Start investigating where you can get the best deals. Don't look just at Aristo or USA for track. There are others and they are sometimes less expensive than the big guys.since it sounds like a simple continous loop layout of not too big a size for one at a time operating, I would think track power would be the simplest way to go. Arizonas not going to oxidize brass track alot compared to other locales. Try to get the biggest pack you can afford. You can always add DCC down the line.


----------



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Regarding adding DCC at some point, I probably don't need it, as I anticipate one train at a time since it's only 140' of loop. But if I did, I have an NCE 5 amp radio system on my HO layout and a BNIB NCE PowerCab too. Can I use either of these with USA Trains or Aristo Craft locos? I'm guessing they pull too many amps for these systems. 
Ken S.


----------



## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree if you can fit in the 10' curves do so. 140' of track can make for a really nice layout, add a switch or two and you have the start of operations. If you set up your sidings into blocks then you can park a train kill the track and then run the other train. I have 2 USAT a NW2 and GP38 and they are known to pull alot of juice. I can run both on my layout at the same time, or 3 bachmann locos or even 5 small engines at the same time. I use a Train Engineer with a crest switchable transformer that kicks out 23 volts 12 amps. Using the basic TE is simple it connects to the transformer but the only downfall is I control the whole track not a individual engine but if you are only running one train no problem. 
my vote for a beginner is to run track power since you can run anything right out of the box. DCC is really cool but costly if you end up collectiing several engines. 
Keep it simple, get running with track power on your 140' of track, have fun, get your feet wet then after a bit of time you can start exploring different avenues like live steam, battery, or DCC.


----------



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

ccT, what about electrical connections to the railroad? I have a covered patio that is going to house the box into which I run the train for storage after running on the layout. It will be a simple siding and I was going to put the power pack there, protected from the elements, and run 2 wires to the siding. Will that be enough to power the full 140' of layout track? Or, will I need to run power cable along with the track and drop feeders every so often as I do with my HO layout? What gauge wire do you folks use outside? I have a bunch of 14-2 (with ground) left over from previous house-wiring projects. Can I use that if needed? 
Ken S.


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Ken, as you are in Phoenix, I would certainly support Roger's post and become involved wth the ABTO guys..... I know most of them quite well and you will get a whole lot of very good advice and support from them. 

A number of them have good, used equipment which can save you a bunch of money.... Head for the May meeting and start there...









I plan to be there as well.... It's at the Adobe Mountain Railroad park at Pinnacle Peak and 43rd Ave.......


----------



## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Ken,
I have at least 300 foot of track and supply it from one feeder inside my back porch. However, I have jumpers soldered around each track connection. On turnouts I use rail clamps instead of jumpers to make it easier to take the turnout out of the layout if I have a problem. My wire is all 14 ga. My track is 95% brass with just a little SS.

Bob


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

will I need to run power cable along with the track and drop feeders every so often as I do with my HO layout? What gauge wire do you folks use outside? I have a bunch of 14-2 (with ground) left over 
If it is good enough for HO, it is good enough for outdoors. Yes - run some drop feeders - the 14-2 should work well.


----------



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Coincidentally, due to others' suggesting I check it out, I was at the ABTO park yesterday, and a guy named Bob spent a lot of time with me, taking me on a walking tour and answering all my questions. Then, later in the day, I thought of even more! My research has led me to AristoCraft track. It has screws on each rail joiner, so I don't expect it will need clamps. But soldering jumpers while the track is new might be a good plan anyway. And then, there's the rock waterfall, the shoveling of the dirt for smooth grades, the building of the block wall and the wooden storage shed, the mixing concrete for the viaduct. . .suddenly, retirement has gotten very busy!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ken, I'm pretty experienced with the NCE system, the 5 amp system will run your USAT loco just fine, in fact it will run 2-3 of them. 

14 gauge is ok. 

I want you to think about track maintenance... some track takes no oxidation removal at all, brass will oxidize. How quickly? Depends on your location. Find someone near you. 

I wanted zero oxidation removal... I use stainless steel. Train-Li's nickel plated brass will also perform in a similar manner, advantage cost, disadvantage, cannot take abrasion and warranty only 2 years vs. lifetime on the Aristo stainless. 

If removing the oxide at your location is ok, then brass good choice, and soldering jumpers excellent idea, and will save money. 

Greg


----------



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Greg, I think what I'll do regarding power is use DC at first on brass rail and see how the oxidation/track cleaning goes for a year or so. If it's OK, maybe move the NCE radio outside and use the Powercab for the HO inside. If oxidation goes badly, I'll invest in battery and go that route. I even have a few old HO power packs that I've collected over the last 50 years, and perhaps one of those will work for the USAt locos for the DC option. If not, I'll have to get a LS pack but that's the least expensive way to proceed and might even work just fine. 

The next decision is roadbed. I think I'll do the PVC lattice/pipe method, about 2" wide imbedded in the ground on a 4" bed of rocks. Then, backfill around the tie/sleeper edges with more rocks for a ballast look. Perhaps throw on some cement to bond it all together. This is my current thought. The lattice can go under the whole thing, either imbedded in the ground or 2" in the air, making smooth grades. That is, if I can pound the support pipes into my hard dirt. 
Ken S.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Due to the larger size, largescale engines need more then what a HO power supply can do. 
For the USA trains 2 motor trains, a 2 amp 18 volt minimum is needed, and you really need something more robust than that esp if you double head 2 engines. 

My minimum for DC power is 10 amps and for DCC it is 8 amps.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan, he said he had an NCE 5 amp system. He can run a lower voltage than 18v and you are right the speed will be slower, BUT the number of locos is controlled by the amps, not the voltage. 

Yes, maybe a 24 volt DC supply into the NCE will be better, for example, but let's not confuse capacity (amps) with speed (volts). 

By the way, I have about 20 USAT diesels and an NCE system and have run at various voltages. I also have a true DCC ampmeter in line with the power supply at all times. I'm very aware of how many amps are pulled going up my 3.4% grade. 

Greg


----------



## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

mik,
sorry to offend about the trainsets... There is nothing wrong with a largescale trainset for most folks... I think the Bachmann big haulers are great...and I've owned three of them.

However, I think what is available specifically in 1:29 scale sets will not fully please an experienced HO modeler. (speaking as an experienced standard gauge HO modeler) I wish Aristo had a nice FA or RS3 set and USA had an F3 or GP7 set....both with actual 1:29 cars...and both with 8ft dia circle. Buying used is not a bad idea! Used track is just fine...and sometimes looks better if it's naturally weathered 

I've been garden railroading since 1993, almost 20 years, and I still use 8 and 10ft diameter curves though I always wished i could fit 20s.


----------



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not offended. I'm just one of those who hopes that we can help more than one guy with each thread, so I try to answer both with generalizations and specifics. Sometimes it also helps me think if I try to explain why i answered a certain way. 

Re: Aristo raiil joiners. They'll get you through a few years, but my experience is they get dirty, the little screws seize, then they get brittle and eventually crack. Therefore rail clamps are to take back apart when you have to lift out a section for maintenance. While I still have joiners, I've been buying a small package of clamps every year and changing a few more out. I use the Uncle Herms ones from fleabay. For those watching their pennies, start with clamps on the outside of the curves and add more as you can afford them.


----------



## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

1:87 divided by 3 = 29. That means you can take an HO track plan and blow it up by 3 and get a 1:29 track plan. An 18" radius curve will end up a 54" curve which isn't great but with a track plan already laid out you then can start to modify it to get bigger curves. You can also cut n paste different parts of different track plans you like together and then go from there.


----------

