# Build of Roundhouse Fowler - first live steamer!



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Hello everyone. I'd like to use this thread to share the experience of building my first live steam locomotive. This will be written as it unfolds; I hope it's enjoyable to read, and maybe convinces someone to give it a go! 

I've wanted one for awhile, debated, researched, but kept putting it off. Then at Cabin Fever saw two nifty coal burning Roundhouse conversions, and finally got started.

I ordered the chassis, an extra pair of flanged wheels (I don't like un-flanged wheels and won't be attempting to run on R1 anyway), and the valve train crosshead upgrade (an appearance improvement) from Train Department, and it arrived in about two weeks. 

Comments, questions, suggestions, are all welcome.

Enjoy,
Matthew


Roundhouse Fowler-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Delivery taking place, and the chief engineer rushes to inspect the parts:


Fowler-2 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

The first problem I encountered is a bent frame sheet. It's bowed about 1 mm along it's length, and the final end is twisted.

This picture shows the twist:

Fowler-3 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


And after I fixed the twisting, the bend:

Fowler-4 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

I used a small, non-serrated pliers to fix the twisted end, and straightened the bowing by hand. It appeared okay, but as I initially assembled the chassis there is some binding in the side rods. Roundhouse mention this in the directions, and suggest filing an oblong hole in the side rods as the solution. I've taken no action on that as yet.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good Matt. Did you lay the railway in the living room? My wife would not permit that at all.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Ha, yes! Currently my G track is on the floor of the living room. I expect the steamer to take through the winter to build, at which point I'll have to think about an outdoor railway (or joining a club.)

***

Using a straightedge to align the brass chassis crossmembers:

Fowler-5 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


Here I encountered an issue where the axels didn't fit into the crank webs. Using a small square file, first I tried to file the hole larger:

Fowler-6 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


Slight filing wasn't enough, so I decided to press the crank webs onto the axels. I only did one side, since I knew I'd be disassembling everything. Having one side allowed me to realize the rods had binding.

Roundhouse recommend to file the holes in the rods - effectively making them oversize - but it seems binding could be caused by the crank webs not being exactly square on the axels; therefore a more elegant solution would be to ensure the crank webs are true, thus avoiding introducing slop in the drivetrain. 

I did not think to measure the hole spacing of the side rods and axel bearings before assembling. If these are identical, then binding must be due to lack of true in the crank web mounting to the axels, or holes in the webs.

Since I intended to order counter-balanced crank webs, this is all temporary, so I'm putting the resolution aside for now.

Rather than file off a lot of metal, I decided to press the webs on with a clamp:

Fowler-7 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


In about two weeks I trial-fit the chassis and one side of the rods and valve gear. At this point all the fasteners are simply snug, since I will disassemble everything to treat and color the chassis. The cylinder exhaust tubes were bent my thumb pressure on the tubes, using a 1/2" dowel as a mandrel. A good bit of force is needed, and since there will be many such tubes, I need to think about buying or fabricating a small tubing bender:


Fowler-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes the cranks are Nickel plated and sometimes it is necessary to clean up the plating on the holes.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks great, Matthew! Thanks for including us in your build!


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi everyone!

A question I have at this point, is whether I should paint the chassis or use a metal treatment to give a black oxide finish?

Roundhouse recommend painting the chassis after assembly, however I do not want to paint over fasteners. If I paint, I want a finish which will be durable to heat, lubrication, wear and transport, and disassembly of the model.

I have some time, as I forgot to order the tender kit and counterbalanced crank webs when I ordered the chassis. That will sting, as shipping is very expensive on these models ($70 for the chassis, coming from England.) I want the tender before coloring, so I can do only one black operation. 

There is some surface rust on the chassis, which will also need treatment.

In other news, I've been drafting up a coal boiler. Just trying to get the dimensions and proportions right so the locomotive looks good. I'm leaning toward 7/8, so there is more room in the cab and it will be easier to make a nice detailed cab and controls.

Checked the cost of small valves on McMaster-Carr last weekend, yikes!


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Good to see you enjoying your build Matt. The RH loco kits are a good first build as parts are for the most part consistent, and product support from Roundhouse is top shelf.

I have built several RH chassis and found while each required fitting the work was minor and in the end they were all good runners. The RH simulated Walschaerts valve gear provides excellent running characteristics....build by the instructions and you will achieve success!

I installed aftermarket crank counterbalances on my latest RH chassis, and had to open up those to fit them on the axle. I'd avoid anything other than a light press fit, it is not needed in this location. Return crank position and drilling/pinning that is far more tedious and critical to give your utmost attention...but you'll get to that soon enough...

Keep in mind when RH builds up their engines, the assembly people have loads of experience knowing where tolerances need to be tight and where they can be loose. After assembly all RH chassis are run on air for a number of hours to "run in" the mechanism. You are likely to find several tight spots as you assemble things...let the instructions be your guide as to where to open things up and where to let running in sort out the clearances. Specifically with opening up the the rod holes the act of "ovalizing" the holes seems counter intuitive, and would be on something like an Aster design built to tight tolerances...but on the RH design it absolute works and results in the great operational characteristics that RH locos are famous for. Running in the chassis on air with periodic applications of oil in the valve chest will do wonders to improve the running of your chassis.

Lots of help here on the forum if you get stuck...don't hesitate to ask either via the forum or direct PM if you need help.

I'm sure there are a number of folks "on the fence" about building a live steamer, probably quite a few considering a RH kit...your postings here will be a boon to all....keep it up!


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Duplicolor engine enamels work great and are heat and oil resistant. You can either bake or just leave outside in the sun for a day if you have a completed loco. Cure time is 7 days and remember that as you can chip the paint off easily uncured.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks, Cliff and Jason.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi everyone!

Modest progress to report. Jason sent me an e-mail that he had a Roundhouse order in the works, so I asked for the tender kit and counterbalanced crank webs. This week I got into it.

First, there is flash on these cast parts. I trimmed it using the bench grinder, files, and an X-Acto knife. The metal is soft, and will machine very easily.

Fowler tender trucks-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

Fowler tender frame-2 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

And after trimming off the flash:

Fowler tender trucks-2 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

Fowler tender frame-3 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

These trucks have no articulation or suspension, and with the fastens snug the axels bind. Not sure what I'll do about that.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

great, remember not to bake these parts being castings.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

A simulated coal load is included. It looks very nice - probably uses a silicone or rubber mold, as the coal lumps are undercut. Of course, real coal will look even better! 

Fowler coal-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


Here we have the design of the tender. All the weight is actually supported by the sheet brass body, from which the frame basically "hangs." I would like to have some cross pieces to stiffen this area up, and have the frame support the weight of the tender.

So, I'll need to order some brass shapes, and the sheet to form the rest of the body. I need the tender to hold water. I also need to plug all the holes in the underside of the body.

I picked up a gas torch for plumbing work today. I'm sure there is too much metal here to use my soldering iron. Right now I'm thinking I'll solder brass machine screws into the body for the four attachment points to the frame, and the two pivot points for the trucks. This will seal six of the holes.


Fowler tender frame-4 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

Fowler tender-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi everyone,

Friday I picked up the paint for the frame: Grease remover, grey primer, and semi-gloss black for the finish. They are from the auto parts store, and automotive engine paint as suggested by Jason.

Instructions on the de-greaser say to use before sanding, and again after sanding. It seemed very effective in removing the oil these steel parts come coated with from Roundhouse.

Paints-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

And here are the frames after sanding. I used 320 grit paper, as recommended by the paint manufacturer.

I did not sand the cast parts, as there's no rust on those.

Frames-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I do have a question at this point.

Does anyone have a suggestion for cleaning the sanding residue off the steel?

Ordinary I'd use hot soapy water and an old toothbrush, but I don't want to put back all the rust I just removed!

Thanks,
Matthew


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

When you are ready to paint,
Use the tried and true soapy water method you are familiar with, immediatelly dry the parts with a hair dryer, heat in the oven (just to warm - I put mine adjacant to our coal stove) then apply the first coat of primer and you'll be fine.
Tom


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

An alternative to Tom's suggestion is to use a painter's tack cloth--available where furniture refinishing supplies (such as Minwax products) are sold.

Larry


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Thanks, Tom and Larry.

I painted the steel members of the locomotive chassis last night. 

I omitted doing the cast pieces because I still haven't resolved the problem of the binding on the tender's trucks' axles. I noticed the side pieces of the trucks are a bit bowed, but don't know if the holes for the journal box bushings were drilled before or after that bowing took place. I may look into ball-bearing wheelsets, as that seems a definitive solution. In any case, I'm not sure one can would have had sufficient black paint. I thought I applied primer and paint similarly, but the black can now feels lighter.

I used short lengths of model aircraft fuel tube to fill the holes for the wheel bearings. It worked very well, kept all paint off the inside of the bearing, and slid right out afterward without pulling any paint away.

I hung the pieces with coat hanger wire and cable ties in my garage (too cold here to work outside, which I'd otherwise prefer with these spray can paints.)

I used two light coats followed by one medium coat, both primer and paint, which is as per the directions on the label. The paint looks good, with no runs or drips anywhere.

Here is after the first coat of primer:
Frames-2 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

After the final coat has dried to the touch and I removed the first piece of fuel line:

Frames-4 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

The short pieces of fuel line used to mask the inner surface of the bearing:

Frames-5 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

I scraped the outer surface off with an X-Acto knife after about 30 minutes of curing the final coat.

This morning I baked at 200 degrees, as recommend on the label. The can does say full cure is seven days, so I think I will wait before assembling. Here is the finished result:

Frames-6 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice Photographic record....thanks for sharing.


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, explain, please. If every engine is built up and run in at the factory, why does anything need to be filed? Or forced into place?


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

He is building from a kit, a neat option to learn more about how live steamers function.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good. Be ready for the spring?


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Jason,

As long as you don't specify what year, yes! 

This is, I would (now) say, a daunting project. Especially since I don't want to rush something and ruin it, and plan to fabricate my boiler and freelance the bodywork to 7/8. I'm trying to be careful and thoughtful about each step. I've built many model aircraft, but those are spruce and balsa woods, while these metalworking practices are new to me.

astrayelmgod,

Tom is right, my model is a kit. It is the chassis portion of a Fowler, by Roundhouse Engineering in England. Roundhouse produce the chassis, boiler, bodywork, and tender kits, which are all available separately in case one wishes to use portions of the overall kit to make a unique model.

In my case, I plan on using only the chassis and tender kit, and envision scratch-building a boiler and bodywork. I want to build a coal-fired boiler, which is a different shape and has additional features, compared to the butane gas used in the factory models. (Plus water in the tender, a boiler feedwater system, sealed smokebox and blower, and maybe feedwater preheater.)

So far I have found a few parts which don't fit smoothly. Radio control helicopters are my closest modeling experience, with machined parts and assembly by threaded fastener, and the Roundhouse parts are much less precise, in some cases. To be fair, the production volumes of live steam are lower, and I'm sure balancing precision and cost is a challenge. Crank webs onto axles, side rod movement with axle rotation, and tender trucks' axle rotation, are the binding problems at present.

I'm trying to be methodical in diagnosing and solving a problem. For instance, the side rod binding might be due to inaccuracy of the hole spacing of the frames compared to the side rods. Or, it could be due to poor alignment of the crank webs on the axle ends. Or, it could be due to poor fabrication of the crank webs. Rather than hack away at the side rod bearing holes, I'd like to identify the root cause and minimize sloppy work. 

In this example, it is not a good idea to file or ream out the side rod bearings because of binding, if the binding is due to poor alignment because one needs a press to fully seat the cranks. Roundhouse's instructions say to file out the holes, but make no mention of adequately seating the crank web. Yet, in fact, the factory webs can't be fitted to, let alone seated on, the axle ends (by me, using the parts in my kit.)

Therefore I'd like to fully fit the crank webs to the axles before taking any action to ream or oblong the side rod bearing holes. 

Sorry for a huge post, but I wanted this thread to show a first time experience and thought process.


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## JimB (Jan 25, 2013)

*Same Problem*

I've run into that same problem on my Lady Anne kit which is in process so I'm following your discussion on the build. This kit I have has been traded around some and I have no idea when it went through production. I think it is the cranks on mine. James (JimB)


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## Chief Flick (Jul 7, 2012)

My first LS Loco was a Roundhouse Billy Kit. (It took me 2 weeks to build it) Then recently I built a 7/8ths cab and chimney (I kept the 16mm cab and chimney). Great machine. I love it.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi everyone,

Now that the frames should be fully cured, I reassembled the chassis including the counterbalanced crank webs, siderods, and valve gear.

The weigh shaft brackets need to have the little "ears" bent so they sit on top of the frame rails. I mounted them in a vice, then bent them with a non-serrated pliers:

Weighshaft Brackets-3 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

Note that there is a right and left hand side once they're bent, so be sure to bend them the correct way to form a set:

Weighshaft Brackets-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

This small pliers, with non-serrated jaws is very useful for these models:

Weighshaft Brackets-2 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

The finished brackets fit perfectly on the chassis.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

The counterbalanced cranks are unplated brass. They appear to be stamped, and have some burrs and rough spots:

Counterbalanced Cranks-2 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

I tried a file and the bench grinder, and found the grinder easier and faster. Only light touches are needed. Then followed up with sandpaper.

If you get the upgraded crosshead and combination lever kit, this part is very brittle, so make sure you file it as needed to fit. You may be able to see mine has a small crack where I pressed it on the piston rod:

Crosshead-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

And the chassis with rods and valve gear complete:

Valve gear assembled-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I did use the small square file as needed to enable the cranks to fit on the axels. This was easier than filing the nickel plated cranks which came in the kit. I left the center axle unconnected at this point.

I set the return cranks and timed the valves visually.

At this point the chassis can be run on compressed air. There is some binding, but with no experience to know how much can be there to "run-in," I think I will try to run it. Trying to file the siderod bearings to a larger ID will leave tool marks which would, I expect, chew up the OD of the pins.

Lowes has an air tool lubrication reservoir; it's only $10, so I think I'll pick one up. Supposed to be sunny and 48 degrees here tomorrow, and I'm off work.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Coming along nicely Matthew...looks like you're ready to run-in the chassis on air...don't get discouraged if you need to do some fiddling if your unit has a lope....many do when first put together and with minor adjustment and a little running time, all will be fine.

I forget how long RH runs in their chassis for factory built locomotives...but it is quite some time.


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