# Anyone modified a crossing gate for powered op?



## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

_The Kansas wind is lashing lustily,
And the trees are thrashing thrustily,
And the leaves are rustling gustily,
So it's rather safe to say,
That it seems, that it may turn out to be,
It feels, that it will undoubtedly,
It looks, like a rather indoor work day, today_

With winds gusting to 40, no outdoor progress today, so I've turned to some projects indoors. First up is my LGB crossing gate. It's one of those European-prototype crossing gate sets that I picked up cheap (it was missing the crossbucks and the wood piece for between the rails) and fixed up. However, getting it to operate reliably outdoors has been tricky.

The mechanism is a little complicated, but essentially the weight of the engine pressing down on the track pushes the gate arms down via a lever. Indoors, this works fine. However, it requires the track to sit "above" the crossing mechanism so that the track flexes down as the engine crosses, which seems to be problematic outdoors, where track adjacent to the crossing is ballasted.

My thought is to convert this to electromechanical operation via a simple circuit and solenoid. I would hide the solenoid in a track-side structure and use an optical switch to open/close the gates for some set period of time when the switch is triggered. This would be more prototypical than the current operation, where the train is actually *in* the crossing before the arms go fully down. If the switch was a foot from the crossing (and the timing was correctly calibrated), the gates would fully close before the train arrived and not open until the last car cleared.

My question is, has anyone undertaken such a conversion (or considered it) and would you be willing to share your thoughts and experiences?

Thanks,

Dan


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

I can see the 'timing' being a bit of an issue.
It would have to assume that all trains are around the same length, and running at the same speed.
With the optical switch, could you not have it trigger the solenoid 'for as long at there is a train crossing it's path, plus a bit more'?
Anyway, have fun with trying different things to make it work.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

One of the guys in our club has asked me to make this same conversion. (IIRC, I actually gave him the piece because I didn't think it would be reliable outdoors and really didn't have a place for it.) I told him the difficult part would be the solenoid or servo to pull the arms down, reliably, outdoors. I told him that if he gets that together, I will build him the electronics.

This can be done using either track gaps on either side to sense a metal wheel, or using a magnet on the engine and reed switches on either side. The timing is accomplished using a 555 timing chip that can be set to throw a relay or even some solonoids for any period of time desired. When the gap/reed is passed, the chip sends current to the relay/solenoid.

The train would activate it twice, so keep the timing relatively short (easiest), or we can make the circuit to ignore the second gap/reed for a given period (more difficult).


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, There are a few companies that make what I believe you are looking for.

Here is one of them: http://www.dccbitswitch.com/

-Jim


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

jimtyp said:


> Dan, There are a few companies that make what I believe you are looking for.
> 
> Here is one of them: http://www.dccbitswitch.com/
> 
> -Jim


Thanks Jim. That would be a simpler method than cobbling up my own circuit. I guess I just need to find a servo controller that is also DCC and I'll be set.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, Circuitron makes the tortoise slow motion switch motor, which you may be able to use for lowering/raising the gate. They also a make a grade crossing detection. Might be worth a call to them to see if they have everything you need : http://www.circuitron.com/index_files/Page639.htm

I believe both of the Bitswitch and Circuitron grade crossing detection can be used with DCC or DC. 

-Jim


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Actually, you are very timely. The next issue of _Garden Railways_ Magazine is reported to include an article and circuit to make a signal crossing.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Well..we can rehash and throw ideas around after it comes out next month...

I also want a working gate..for the Dragoon crossing. - double mains ...
...thinking I want horns to start about 15' - 16' feet away.. gates to start dropping about 8' - 10' -12' away....I'll have to watch trains run thru some more to get a better idea....
I know where the W sign is...but that is not when the gates drop...

Need to configure for multi-engine consists...mostly cabeese..
All can have off center reeds and magnets for this. ..relays to delay or over ride initial trigger..to prevent follow on units from tripping same...

Sounds like Fun!!
...Dirk


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

I worked with the Circuitron stuff back in my HO days way back when and have been following this thread because I too need to do this on my mainline. I just received a pair of Life Like grade crossings with gates/lights, etc. The slow action machines would be great, and I could shoot myself for selling all of mine when I did the upscaling from HO to G. I had like a couple dozen of them, but I do have some of the detection circuits. I will try - don't start holding your breath, to work on this. I also want to add micro LEDs to the crossing gates as well too. When I do mine, I will do like I did in the HO and put in a defeat switch to cut out the bells. They drive you nuts after an hour or so everytime you activate the crossing for every train. I remember this well 

Rocky

ps. I will get to the placement of the ctossing, but the gate operation will come later. So I will place an MOW crew at the site like they're working on installing the new grade crossing  Give me a week to do this...


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Rocky, I won't hold my breath but if you do come up with something, detection and motor, I'd love to hear about your findings.

Todd, did you design the circuit that will be in the GRR mag? Do you know if it will include the motor also?

Thanks,
Jim


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I didn't and I don't. I hope that they include a circuit that can drive a relay as opposed to just lighting LEDs on a tower.

While there is no difference in theory, (except the inclusion of a resistor to control the current to the LED), they can be quite different in practice when subject to the real world environment.

But with the advent of super-capacitors that can hold as relay for several minutes, the circuit can now be made ultra simple and ultra reliable requiring no microchips at all, though it is still a bit cheaper to use a chip.

BTW, this shows the "interface" circuitry that I created to make the car "dance" and control the strobes on the spinners for the wheels on two of the other railcars in the Low Rider train. Yes, spinners on the wheels on railcars.


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

What I plan on building is for indoors. Anything that's outside will need to be sealed and weatherproofed. My advice would be to not do gates outdoors and to only do flashing lights or LEDs on crossbucks. Too much hassle with motors/servos, etc. Also if made, you've got a lot of $$$ and labor into something that could easily be destroyed by weather, animals or children, not to mention pesky unwanted mutant neighbors 

Rocky


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## catherine yronwode (Oct 9, 2013)

Thanks for this thread. Lots of food for thought.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

For several years I had the powered LGB crossing gates on my layout in Lakewood, Colorado. They were activated by LGB track switches (1700) and a magnet under the locomotive. I had the layout set up for both clockwise and counterclockwise operation. This required 4 of the activation switches. Two on each side of the crossing. If they are placed close together the engine will activate the first switch and not the second. 

It was set up like this:

DU-------X--------UD

D is for down and U is for up. The problem is the length of the trains. For everything to work correctly they had to be pretty much the same length.

As I said, it was outside for several years, until it got trashed by a hail storm. My homeowners policy got me a new set, but I never got around to setting it up.

I think they would be great for inside layouts, but I'm not so sure about outside.

I would think that some kind of an optical sensor would be ideal for detecting a train.

Chuck


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

chuck n said:


> For several years I had the powered LGB crossing gates on my layout in Lakewood, Colorado. They were activated by LGB track switches (1700) and a magnet under the locomotive. I had the layout set up for both clockwise and counterclockwise operation. This required 4 of the activation switches. Two on each side of the crossing. If they are placed close together the engine will activate the first switch and not the second.
> 
> It was set up like this:
> 
> ...


 
This can be done with a track gap and a 555 chip set so that each wheel re-starts the timer cycle.

So if the 555 is set for 5 seconds, each wheel of the train will restart the 5 second period. But the next wheel hits the gap before the 5 seconds and restarts the timer before it "times out" such that the very last wheel is the only wheel to realize the 5 second period and all trains will raise the gates after the same period, after the last car, regardless of train length.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Todd. That was all done 23+ years ago. Your system sounds a lot better. Here in Virginia I have a problem with rain, mud, ants, spiders, etc. in anything with a motor left outside on or near the ground. Somethings were easier in Colorado.

Chuck


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Agreed. The animated stuff is put out for open houses and comes in afterwards. My stuff gets watered 3 times daily.

Some of the electronics used in the control of the trains is housed in weatherproof boxes or PVC tubing that sit under "birdhouses" and faux rock. Some of it, housed in small structures, comes in at the end of the day.

Here you see Gustav at his new gig icing cars at the Bear Whiz Bear facility. He was featured in _Garden Railways_ Magazine, Oct 2012, including the schematic. Though easily removable, he stays with the railcar and it too comes in.

Gustav uses a 556 chip and a solenoid to pull a brass "teeter-totter" within the car. The other end of the teeter-totter has a rod that sticks up through the bottom of the hatch and "punches" at the block of ice raising it, the pike, and Gustav's arms, such that it looks like he's trying to force the block into the hatch.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So I went out for My mail just now....

Coming back in, a train was reaching the summit, just having crossed the posted "W" signs...
I backed up some to see the gates in My rearview mirror...which started dropping while the train had only reached a point another 100 ft. after the "W" signs....

This tells me I can set the Whistle posts at 16 ft. and a trigger to drop the gate arms at about 12 ft from the crossing itself.....

This represents actual distances, w/o any compression of space....

Dirk


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

Dirk, in the real world it isn't where the trigger point is at. I think circuits take in account the speed of the train as well. How this is done, I dunno. But all trains won't be traveling at the same speed either and I've seen the 1:1 creep up towards a crossing and stop. After movement stops, the gates go back up and lights quit flashing. So the 1:1 circuits must work on detecting movement within a certain distance of the crossing. So total realism will be a pain in the butt to figure out. Photo cells is the easiest to do and that's what circuitron uses. Magnets and reed switches works well, but you need magnets on front and back of the train to do it and if you have a car or loco in the middle of the train with magnets, it'll screw this up too. The drawback to the photo cells is you need to have a light source above the track during night operations. Well there's 2 more cents of thought to think about... Rocky


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Rocky.ha....was thinking they were plug nickles..!!! LOL.

No great way to go...
I thought the loco over-rode the system as needed...
Have seen trains creep to gate...not drop....

Too many variables to plan around just for our toys....

Dirk - thanks for adding ideas...


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

GN_Rocky said:


> Magnets and reed switches works well, but you need magnets on front and back of the train to do it and if you have a car or loco in the middle of the train with magnets, it'll screw this up too. The drawback to the photo cells is you need to have a light source above the track during night operations. Well there's 2 more cents of thought to think about... Rocky


 
Rocky, this is why I use track gaps for detection on things such as this. Any engine or railcar with metal wheels will activate it.

I developed the method and circuitry of using track gaps to protect my "X-crossing" where it is critical that any railcar be detected to stop an on-coming train.

And while I didn't invent the idea of using track gaps, I had never seen it done before, so came up with my own concept and methodology. And I did pioneer this concept in Large Scale.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Toddalin, is this working circuit assuming a track powered layout?

Dirk


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd, do you sell these circuits? I know you are going to say it's easy, build it yourself. However,to those that are electronically challenged, meaning me, even this seems complex. Not sure what it even does. Does it stop a train dead in it's tracks if detected? Will it work with DCC?

-Jim


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

SD90WLMT said:


> Toddalin, is this working circuit assuming a track powered layout?
> 
> Dirk


 
Yes, but it would be even simpler to make it run off its own wall wart or battery and then could be applied to any system. That also removes the need for the rectifiers and voltage regulators. Even four AA cells could power it for a long time.

As shown, the system will kick in at ~1.5 volts higher than the selected voltage regulator. I use 5 or 6 volt regulators and never run my trains at less than ~8 volts when these circuits need to be active to do their respective jobs.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

jimtyp said:


> Todd, do you sell these circuits? I know you are going to say it's easy, build it yourself. However,to those that are electronically challenged, meaning me, even this seems complex. Not sure what it even does. Does it stop a train dead in it's tracks if detected? Will it work with DCC?
> 
> -Jim


 
No I don't sell this stuff.

As shown, this circuit (developed for AristoCraft for a product that never came to market) simply changes the signal light from green to red for a period selected by the potentiometer when any metal wheel closes the gap. (Actually, each wheels closes the gap twice.) Switch 1 turns it on and Switch 2 selects the "First Wheel" or "Last Wheel."

When set to "First Wheel," if the timer is set for (e.g.,) 1 minute, all subsequent wheels will be ignored for that period of time, and the first wheel after 1 minute will again start it.

When set for "Last Wheel," each subsequent wheel will cancel the last wheel and restart the 1 minute period, such that the period begins when the first wheel hits the gap and always ends 1 minute after the last wheel.

But, the same relay can also remove the power from a section of track to stop a train, and that's what it does at my crossing using four gaps and two circuits and that's why I came up with the idea.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks Todd

I'll be more direct...as I'm using battery power only for locos....will an abbreviated circuit still detect and provide activation of a xrossing gate and lite system. 

Follow on reading makes this sound that there is also circuitry to operate signals along the ROW..but probably used in that setting and not combined with gates here.

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I can provide a supply of 6 volts to run systems such as operating gates. As I plan on a 6 V. Solar battery to power the turnout motors also.

Dirk


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

SD90WLMT said:


> I can provide a supply of 6 volts to run systems such as operating gates. As I plan on a 6 V. Solar battery to power the turnout motors also.
> 
> Dirk


 

Yes, you could run from a 6 volt source and use that same source to power your gates and lights, assuming they run at 6 volts.

The 555 chips will run down to 5 volts and it's output is ~1.5 volts lower than the source. But most 6 volt relays will run down to ~4.5 volts. There are 4.5 and 5 volt relays available that are perfect for this.

For a 6 volt source, tie one leg of the "gap" relay directly between the minus (-) on the power supply and the other leg to the track gap. 

Tie the power supply + and - to the + and - on the chip. Also, tie this + to the track beside one of the gaps and span the gap with a jumper wire so the + is present in the track on both sides of the 2 gaps. The metal wheels serve as the switch between the gap and outer rails so each wheel "switches" twice. There is therefore a lot of redundancy over a train and even if a wheel were to be missed, the next will be along any moment.

While any metal wheel will span the gap to create the needed pulse to the relay and chip, engines and lighted cars work especially well because they not only create a switch as they cross the gap, but their other wheels allow power to flow from the adjoining sections, even when the wheel is on top of the gap rail, rather than only when "falling" into the gaps.

You will not need the two bridge rectifiers, the two voltage regulators, or the four capacitors used in the respective power supplies.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Well my _Garden Railways_ Magazine arrived and now we can see how activation is achieved.

Dave Bodnar did the article to show the capability of the PICAXE, and while the article does a good job of immersing people in its operation, I find the "detection circuit" (Program 4 with reed switches placed on either side of the crossing) to be "wanting" (sorry Dave).

The problem is that this produces an "asymmetrical" crossing. For example, if the reed switches are placed 8 feet on either side of the crossing and you run a 10 foot long train, when the engine crosses the first reed switch it starts the flashing cycle 8 feet before the engine reaches the crossing. When the engine reaches the second reed switch and turns off the flash cycle, you still have 2 feet of train left to pass the crossing.

A compromise would be a combination trigger/trigger/timing circuit, perhaps magnets on both the engine and caboose, or maybe a "rethink" on how this is to be accomplished.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd:

How about having a reed switch on the left side of the track with a magnet on the left side of the engine, for lowering the gate. On the other side of the crossing have the reed switch on the right side of the track and a magnet on the right side of the last car, caboose, observation, etc., to raise the gate. This would work, I think, for both clockwise and counter clockwise operation.

Chuck


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

toddalin said:


> Well my _Garden Railways_ Magazine arrived and now we can see how activation is achieved.
> 
> Dave Bodnar did the article to show the capability of the PICAXE, and while the article does a good job of immersing people in its operation, I find the "detection circuit" (Program 4 with reed switches placed on either side of the crossing) to be "wanting" (sorry Dave).
> 
> ...


Todd - the objective of the article is to get folks started with simple code - the program can easily be modified to require a "hit" on the reed switch then a several second pause without an additional "hit" --- as a matter of fact that is exactly the code that is in the 3rd article that Marc asked me to write --- it deals with detection methods and focuses on one that I find very well suited to garden railway applications.

In the mean time the solution you seek can be realized by putting the reed switches to different sides of the track with the "start" magnet to the left side of the loco and the "stop" magnet to the right on the caboose. That requires you to run in only one direction but that is not much of an issue for most folks.

dave


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

On second thought it would only work in on direction. Years ago I used four of the LGB reed switches with their crossing gate. Two next to each other on both sides of the crossing. If they were next to each other, the engine would activate the first action, closing the gate, but not the second, for raising the gate for coming from the opposite direction. A similar setup was on the other side. The engine that closed the gate would activate the reed to raise the gate before it hit the close gate switch. This did work from both direction. 

My guess is that while the LGB gate is opening or closing a second signal is ignored by the mechanism.


Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Right up to .....
"Light power movements"....
..when there will be no follow on cars to trip gate back up...

I'm with ya Chuck.!!
I just want a fully useable concept ..that mimikes what I see...

Yesterday..a track inspection truck jump on the crossing ..crosswise...the gates lowered..he fussed with the hi-rail wheels. .and rolled backwards about 150'...
..clear..of the crossing...
But the gates stayed down....the driver again got out and was walking around checking his vehicle.
The gates did not raise for a very long time....
Leaving folks trapped at the crossing...and otherwise clear tracks...

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I will definitely require the ability for trains to run thru on two tracks..
East bound..
West bound..
..tracks...
From both directions!!

Dirk


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