# Anthracite



## Ding Dong (Sep 27, 2010)

Have any of you eastern coal firers tried the Anthracite from the deep Pennsylvania mines?

If so, what was your experience with it?

Does it burn well, better than the Welsh Steam Coal?

Does it burn clean with little ash residue?

Rob Meadows

Los Angeles


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I dont have a coal fired steamer, so I have never tried it.. 
if any of you western NY guys have a coal fired steamer and want to try it out, I can get you a small supply 
of genuine Lehigh Valley Railroad "Black Diamonds" to try out! 
Its fairly easy to find it still littering the ROW across Western NY.. 
I can probably find some chunks for testing purposes.. 

although traditionally, in full-size steam locomotives, it was much more difficult to burn than "soft" coal..
requiring the invention of special fireboxes to burn it..which led to the "Camelback" type locomotive:










So I dont know how easily it would burn in a small-scale steamer..

Scot


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 13 Nov 2010 08:19 PM 









I dont have a coal fired steamer, so I have never tried it.. 
if any of you western NY guys have a coal fired steamer and want to try it out, I can get you a small supply 
of genuine Lehigh Valley Railroad "Black Diamonds" to try out! 
Its fairly easy to find it still littering the ROW across Western NY.. 
I can probably find some chunks for testing purposes.. 

although traditionally, in full-size steam locomotives, it was much more difficult to burn than "soft" coal..
requiring the invention of special fireboxes to burn it..which led to the "Camelback" type locomotive:










So I dont know how easily it would burn in a small-scale steamer..

Scot 

It is my understanding that coal, once mined and if left out in the weather loses its "potency" and will not burn easily nor with much heat, so "old coal" found on the ROW will not be much good.

As for Miss Snow.... sure wish women would dress like that today.


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## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

I used Anthracite in my Coal fired Ruby while waiting for the Welsh coal to come. On the plus side it burn't well (very fast) but created a lot of ash in the ash pan and gummed up the flues, smoke box & stack real bad. Had to drill the gum out of the stack as I could no longer get a draft. Welsh Coal is well worth the wait & what you have to pay, it makes firing enjoyable. 
A short video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNuT-6vFrd8


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

I've never been able to get the local stuff (Scranton area) to do more than snap and pop. Couldn't even get it to burn.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

I doubt that outside is a factor in energy levels of coal, given experience of many years of burning coal in our stove with it stored outside (other than winter freeze). There is a plus side of having coal outside in that it washes the coal dust away.


Buy Welsh coal for gauge one for a successful firing session.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Miss Phoebe Snow was quite famous in her time: 

Says Phoebe Snow 
about to go 
upon a trip to Buffalo 
"My gown stays white 
from morn till night 
Upon the Road of Anthracite" 

Here's the story: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebe_Snow_(character) 
Great pictures of the train itself. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrOHCwodHu4 
Here's Phoebe herself. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXpeOH0pTXg&feature=related 
and look at those engines roll. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DiN_qFWo70&feature=related


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Rob, 

I have some Utah coal that I've picked up locally along a spur track that leads to a cement plant. Coal is shipped to the cement plant for the kilns, and cement is shipped out. I gave some of this coal to Tony D. several years ago and he reported that it burned okay but he preferred Welsh coal. 

After this summer's National Summer Steamup I tested some in my coal Billy to compare it to Welsh coal from Coles Power Models in Texas. The Utah coal ignited easily and produced no clinker, but compared to Welsh coal it produced more ash. There didn't seem to be significantly more residue buildup in the tubes and chimney than with Welsh coal, but I brush the tubes between firing sessions. The Utah coal also produced more smoke and a stronger aroma. Actually, if Welsh coal gives off an "aroma" then what the Utah coal gives off could be characterized more as a "stench". I dropped 3 pieces into the firebox while I was firing with Welsh coal at a local steamup, and immediately heads turned and people were exclaiming "ew-w-w-w!". 

You want to try some? 

Steve


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 14 Nov 2010 05:37 PM 
I doubt that outside is a factor in energy levels of coal, given experience of many years of burning coal in our stove with it stored outside (other than winter freeze). There is a plus side of having coal outside in that it washes the coal dust away.


Buy Welsh coal for gauge one for a successful firing session.



The last commercial steam ran in 1960 in the U.S. so coal found on the R.O.W. is at least 50 years old, unless it is spillage from more recent coal shipments, in which case it is probably not Pennsylvania Anthracite, but probably Bituminous being shipped in from other states to the North or West.

Storing coal outside, in a pile, for a couple of seasons is not a problem, but if left laying along the Right Of Way for upwards of 50 years, the sun will have baked out most of the volitile gases (it has already been "coked"), and so will be next to impossible to ignite, and rain will have washed away some of the carbon, so there will be less left to burn when (if?) it does get set aflame.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Now you got me started: 


Miss Snow draws near 
The cab to cheer 
The level-headed 
Engineer 
Whose watchful sight 
Makes safe her flight 
Upon the road of Anthracite 


Says Phoebe Snow 
About to go 
Upon a trip to Buffalo: 
"My gown stays white 
From morn till night 
Upon the road of Anthracite" 


This is the Maiden all in Lawn 
Who boarded the train one early morn 
That runs on the Road of Anthracite 
and when she left the train that night 
she found to her surprised delight 
hard Coal had kept her dress still bright 


Lots more at [/i]_*Phobe Snow Poetry*_ 

*More Phobe Snow*[/i]


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

As for Miss Snow.... sure wish women would dress like that today.

They do. Go to the Middle East. Ha ha! just kidding!! They don't show that much skin!


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## tmtrainz (Feb 9, 2010)

Anthracite coal, having been subject to higher temperature and pressure regimes during formation, has already had most of the volatiles gassed off, hence why Miss Phoebe Snow's dress stays white.


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## Ding Dong (Sep 27, 2010)

I dropped 3 pieces into the firebox while I was firing with Welsh coal at a local steamup, and immediately heads turned and people were exclaiming "ew-w-w-w!". 

You want to try some? 

That's very kind of you Steve. But I have some Aussie coal that I pilfered from the tender of an old preserved Victorian Railways Loco. that is very high on the Aroma Incredibilous scale. I'll bring some to the NSS and we can clear the room together. 

Rob Meadows 

Los Angeles


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

The bell doesn't ring for those that use anything other than Welsh coal?


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## Ding Dong (Sep 27, 2010)

When I picked up my Castle from John Barrett of Barrett Engineering a couple of years ago, we test fired it on his home track. John prefers to use anthracite when he coal fires. He states that shovel for shovel, anthracite will give you the longest burn over Welsh coal. When he runs a coal fired loco at an exhibition, he fires it on anthracite and throws in the odd shovel of Welsh coal for the aroma and bituminous coal for the smoke just to please the gallery.
So back to my original question, has anyone used Pennsylvania anthracite?

Rob Meadows 

Los Angeles


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

In my K27 Ive successfully burned Welsh coal, Pocahontas coal, Crap coal from a power plant in Florida, Blacksmith coal I bought on Ebay, coal from Steamtown, coal from Utah, coal from New York, coal from New Jersey, sticks I've found laying on the ground, scrap wood from my leftover stock, charcoal and even chunks of rubber.

The ONLY thing I've found that will not burn and make steam in this engine is Pennsylvania Anthracite that was mined locally (I'm just south of Scranton, PA). I would have had the same, or _better_, success throwing gravel into the fire.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

As has been said before, Anthracite coal is a very hard coal, with little in the way of volatiles. It's high carbon content means that it is going to require a high air velocity through the fire (the draft) in order to burn properly. Having fired our coal stove in the house for years on pea sized anthracite from Pennsylvania, it produces no smoke, no cinder, very little in the way of clinker, and the byproduct is mostly light feathery fly ash. I think Larry H. got some power plant coal, for true PA anthracite requires little cleanup and certainly leaves no residue in the flues. Our Coal stove has been burning Anthracite for 30 years, and I never recall having to sweep the chimney clean, save for the time someone put green pine in as the starter wood! 

I have used the same PA anthracite in our Coal fired K-4, with it broken down to the normal baked bean size and have had great success with much longer run time between stoking. It requires a very hot charcoal base and the engine on the steam blower before you can begin to create the bed of anthracite. If your engine is particularly feeble on straight charcoal, adding a lithe layer of welsh coal for a starter bed works very well. Once the anthracite is lit, it will produce a white-hot fire with a good draft from the blower or if the engine is pulling a nicely loaded rake behind it. You may find that the engine need a little blower on slower speed running as the coal is not being given enough air to burn optimally. At the end of the run, I had no clinker and the ashpan was free of any large lumps of slag or unburnt coals. The flues were clean, with only a powder ash on them and the smokebox had very little cinder or coal dust in it. The run time went from 1 hour before the ash pan got full (when burning welsh steam coal), to a full 2 hours (on PA anthracite) before I had had enough. The engine was still running strong after I had shunted off the mainline and the fire was white hot. 

Short answer, yes, you can burn PA Anthracite in Gauge 1 locomotives with much success, it just takes a little getting used to. Once you know how it will react and burn, you can fire the engine just as easily with anthracite as you can welsh or any other coal type for that matter. John Shawe fires his scratch built Jumbo exclusively on it due to the small size of the firebox, so as to extend the running times and allow for a longer run before the ashpan becomes full


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