# Ceiling Railway



## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

Hello All!

I am a new member and would like to learn more about ceiling layouts. I spent the day installing a wooden shelf around the ceiling in my living/dining room.

It is scratch built out of white pine, "L" brackets and mending plates. I got 3/4 of the way finished but ran out of brackets! NTW, I will get the rest tomorrow and continue
construction and finally painting and laying the 60ft. of track. This is my first foray into the wonderful world of G-Scale and I am loving it! I live in a very wet southern city and 
as such opted to go the ceiling route to eliminate most of the track maintenance. I want to put some wallpaper type scenes behind the shelf so I am open as to how to do that
and where to get resonable priced goods. I thought of going to Sherman-Williams as I hear they have great wallpaper borders that may suffice.

Here's a couple of pics of what I have done today.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

It seems to be coming along. 

It looks like you are planning a simple oval, no sidings or spurs. 

What diameter of track are you using? Four foot? Five foot? Eight?


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

Don't understand what you mean by diameter of track. I am going to use G or #1 gauge track. I was going to go with brass but I see no reason not to go with GarGraves as it is indoors and in a climate controlled atmosphere. The room is 20ft.X 12ft.. The turn radius is about 5ft. This is the Aristocraft engine trio that I plan to run.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Very nice so far. Turn radius is the radius of the curved track that you are using. You state that your curves are a five foot radius. That would mean that a complete circle of it would be ten feet in diameter. I like the simplicity of your shelf system. Nothing to detract from the room or trains. May I suggest that you paint the underside of the shelf to match the ceiling color, and paint the vertical portion of the "L" brackets to match the wall color. Good luck with your railway.


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

That's a beautiful ABA set! You might check the info on it to see what minimum curve size is required. And leave several inches between the track and the wall on the curves for engine overhang as well. 

I don't know if you're subject to earthquakes but you may consider a safety fence of some kind to park your train behind when it isn't being run...


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Unless you are going to just run small engines, I would still go with 10ft radius curves, so if your ideas of what you want to run chaange to running a Mallet or a Dash 9!! Two years ago if you would have told me I would have been running steam, and freight trains I would have thought "NO WAY". Again a fellow that I purchased my first g-scale train from told me to never go below 10ft radius curves, so I would be able to run most anything I wanted. I have stuck to that indoors on ceiling layout and outdoors. Actually outdoors I wish now I would have went with 20ft curves!!! The wider the better indoor 10ft would be the smallest I would use. Has worked out for me so far!! Also the retaining wall or fence is a good idea nothing worse than a heavy engine going off derailing or other and falling about 10ft. I have had that happen on a pacific and also a smaller engine at one time! Yikes! No fun Regal


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

From the picture of the corner supports, the curves look to be 4 or maybe 5 ft dia. If the room is 12 foot wide, and you were using 5 ft radius/10 ft dia, you would have all but approx 2 foot of straight in the middle of the 12 ft wall and all the rest would be curves. 

Those are a really nice set of diesels. Are you goung to have them pulling a set of passenger coaches? 

Randy


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Regal 

His room is only 12 foot wide. He can't use 10 foot radius curves. He could use 10 ft diameter curves, but his selving isn't set up for 10 ft dia 

5 foot radius = 10 foot diameter

10 foot radius = 20 foot diameter

Also the radius/diameter is typically figured from the center of the rails. So a 4 foot diameter curve will not fit on a 4 foot wide pc of plywood

Randy


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## trainmaster1989 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking good so far! 
The safety rail is something i would recommend too.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Timely! I'm supposed to start on one as soon as I get the panelling up on the other side of the room. How far down from the ceiling did you guys go?


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks for the advice and kudos! I guess I am wrong about the radius curves. I think they would make a 5 ft. circle. I made a trial jig with one of the corner boards and put one engine on it to see how the trucks would turn and they turned with about 1/8" to go before they hit the stops. This will be fine for this application as I don't want to run this heavy train at high speed. I thought of the safety rail but I want to keep this train completely visible and unobstructed. I think a scale speed of 35MPH. will do nicely. I chose to pull frieight cars as this particular FA-1 was not designed to pull passenger cars. The PA version had the steam generator which made it a bit longer and gave it a different radiator louver system. Besides, frieight cars are cheaper! A good set of Santa Fe aluminum passenger cars are about $900 plus they are 28" long which is a bit too much for the curves I have. I am powering the layout with a MRC Power G 10 amp. transformer and plan to wire each half of the track so I minimize loss. I'll post some more photos when I get it all painted out. 

I do have two more questions though. I see some people use those little track light bulbs with reflectors and wire pigtails and they seem to be able to run off a DC transformer. Is this so? It might be nice to have one shining up at each corner and attach them to the accessory side of the transformer. I also want to know how to attach the wires from the transformer to the track. I notice some people solder the wires directly to the track.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Can't help you on the lights, but I use joint clamps like found for sell on the auction link below 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Code-332-G-Gaug...3caa02a097



Randy


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Randy, don't know what to tell you but my indoor ceiling railway is in a 12 foot maybe smaller room, and I run trains (big ones) up there all the time and I think there is 3ft straights or more! If I remember right I used 5ft straights and cut a small piece off of each side to accomodate!! I'll have to post a picture of mine when I get one to show you guys. Regal


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Skyeye on 17 Feb 2010 04:54 PM 
plan to wire each half of the track so I minimize loss. I'll post some more photos when I get it all painted out. 

I do have two more questions though. I see some people use those little track light bulbs with reflectors and wire pigtails and they seem to be able to run off a DC transformer. Is this so? It might be nice to have one shining up at each corner and attach them to the accessory side of the transformer. I also want to know how to attach the wires from the transformer to the track. I notice some people solder the wires directly to the track.

Skyeye: 
Your MRC-G is a 22V DC pack so any incandescent bulb with that voltage will work off your fixed DC posts. If you install switches they'll need AC power. The best wire connection I've found is to solder the wires to the bottom of the joiners in two locations on your layout. The thin joiners solder much easier than the thick rail. Sand off the manufacturing residue first and get a good solder "puddle" for a fail-proof connection.


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Nice, clean job. I know you'll enjoy it!

Regarding a safety fence, my ceiling layout has been up over 11 years without one. We had a big [/i]earthquake a few years ago and the trains and the layout rode the wave together. No derailments at all.


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

OMG, I thought that was a roller coaster at first glance. My next question was, "where is the ramp? I wanna ride!" 

Nice Stan


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Light bulbs can be obtained from the folks that sell doll house accessories. They're called GOW (grain of wheat). They come in variety of voltages and I have found the 18 Volt work ok in a conventional track power set up. I have cut the brightness back in some applications using 240 ohm resisters.

Have you considered a back round for your shelf system?
Don


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like you got a good start. I would use the rail clamps when putting the track together and get one that is designed for connecting your power to the track. makes it simple and not have to worry about soldering. Later RJD


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

Boy am I glad I found this forum! Thanks again for the suggestions! 

I finished all the woodwork yesterday evening and even solved a tricky wall offset with the addition of another corner board. I am going to get the paints this morning and start painting this afternoon. Ordering the track tomorrow. I can't wait to crank her up for her first run! 

Here's a pic of the offset I mentioned. I could have put braces into the ceiling but the way I did it is real strong and looks cleaner. I don't want to have anything obstructing the view. Also, I am trying to keep the cost of this road down to a minimum so I can invest in more rolling stock. I'm still trying to find a down and dirty way of applying a border behind the track wall. I am no artist so painting a backdrop is OOTQ.


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

You could just paint the space a light blue sky color like the blue in your contemporary artwork there. Then paint some green rolling hills or cut out pictures of building fronts or other scenery you may find later.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Skyeye on 17 Feb 2010 04:54 PM 
Thanks for the advice and kudos! I guess I am wrong about the radius curves. I think they would make a 5 ft. circle. I made a trial jig with one of the corner boards and put one engine on it to see how the trucks would turn and they turned with about 1/8" to go before they hit the stops. This will be fine for this application as I don't want to run this heavy train at high speed. I thought of the safety rail but I want to keep this train completely visible and unobstructed. I think a scale speed of 35MPH. will do nicely. I chose to pull frieight cars as this particular FA-1 was not designed to pull passenger cars. The PA version had the steam generator which made it a bit longer and gave it a different radiator louver system. Besides, frieight cars are cheaper! A good set of Santa Fe aluminum passenger cars are about $900 plus they are 28" long which is a bit too much for the curves I have. I am powering the layout with a MRC Power G 10 amp. transformer and plan to wire each half of the track so I minimize loss. I'll post some more photos when I get it all painted out. 

I do have two more questions though. I see some people use those little track light bulbs with reflectors and wire pigtails and they seem to be able to run off a DC transformer. Is this so? It might be nice to have one shining up at each corner and attach them to the accessory side of the transformer. I also want to know how to attach the wires from the transformer to the track. I notice some people solder the wires directly to the track. 

On the question of lighting; I'm not sure what type of lights you are referring to, but a set of Christmas tree lights stapled to the top of the board, near the front edge, with the bulbs laying flat on the board toward the track, would give you continuos lighting along the entire run of the track. You could install a piece of 1 1/4" lattice along the front edge of the shelf to help hide the bulbs and wires.


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Take a look here:* Backdrops*. They have a huge selection of various heights and widths, and many scenes can be made into a panorama. I was able to find a perfect fit for my wall layout.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe "litchfield station" has the backdrops that are pre-printed in different schemes to put on the wall behind your trains up there!! Go take a look at their site or give Bruce a call he is in Arizona. If i can find the actual link to that item i will post it for you here later! Regal 

www.mr-dc.com is the website or i believe you can get there with www.litchfieldstation.com too!!


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Bruce may have sold out his inventory on this item I don't seem to be able to find it there anymore!! Here's a link to what I think you are looking for or you can just google g-scale model rr scenery/backdrops and it will bring up a host of suppliers for this. Here is the link I found to what looks to be a very good supplier of what you are looking for! Regal


http://www.modelrailroads.net/cgi-b...cgi?id=735


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

Well, today I painted everything out and it looks very good! I will order the track tomorrow and take a well deserved break till it comes in. I am very satisfied with the results thus far. I am thinking about using silicone glue to mount the track at least on the straight portions. Here are today's pictures.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Someone here on the forum suggested I look into wallpaper borders. I found mine on the net and ordered up a few rolls. Decided to add a little more sky, so I bought some paint matching the sky color, splashed a few white clouds and this is what I got.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

That works well!


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

What works well? The silicone? 

Anybody tried super glue?


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Remy, 

Personaly, I don't like the idea of using glue because of the permanence. I prefer to use small screws every so often through the middle of a tie. Use a cordless screw gun, quick, easy and can be easily changed., 
D


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good. I also would think about using screws to hold the track down. Later RJD


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Screws are the way to go, but if you really don't want to use screws, us silicon. Don't waste your time with superglue as it needs two smooth surfaces to get a good bond. Also, you don't need to secure the track totally. Every 6-8 foot should do fine. 

Randy


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

I guess you are right Randy, I'll just pre drill the ties every 6 ft. prior to mounting and use small flat head screws. 

I had a scare today when I tried to order the GarGraves track. Seems no dealer I called had a large quantity of either the tin or the stainless. I was told by one large dealer that GarGraves is backlogged for 2 months on vendor shipments. They said they can't produce it quick enough to meet demand. I guess that's because of the high cost of brass. I finally lucked out after many calls and located an old hobby shop in Pennsylvania that had a decent supply and bought it all! They gave me a 10% discount. 

Sailbode, I am probably going to do as you did and use the stock wallpaper rolls. 70 feet of the real non-repetitious g scale stuff is rather expensive and I need to economize so I can buy more rolling stock for the engines.


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

Update: Well, the GarGraves track is on the way to my house and I should have it next week. Hooray! I plan to use 4 conductor (two extra wires for accessories) 14 gauge wire to go from the Power G transformer to the track but then I want to run a leg of wire to the opposite side of the track to reduce loss. The question is, can I use 18 gauge for the other wire? Also, I was told that the slave wire or jumper only needs to be one wire connected to the "Positive" side. Is that Kosher?


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

Glad you finally can look forward to getting your track. 14AWG is overkill for your size railway with one mainline but it will work. I used 18AWG in connections on opposite sides of the room and had no slowing. You only need a common wire attached to one continuous rail in one place. The power wire you can attach to the other rail in as many places as you think necessary and can be used to create blocks if you think that would be an advantage. Try it in one place with alligator clips and see if your trains slow down on the opposite side of the room. The fixed voltage wire, if used only for lights, can be 20 or 22 so 18 will work fine.


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks! Does it matter which rail I install the "positive" or hot wire? Inside or outside rail? Does the train wheel contacts know the difference?


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

No, it won't matter because you have polarity (direction) control on your Power G. Just stay consistent all the way around with the ones you choose.


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

I finally finished laying the 65 feet of GarGraves track yesterday and now the R&B like is a living reality! I also got another steam passenger train, the Bachmann B&O Royal Blue with extra cars that I plan to run later this weekend. 

Here's a brief, poorly done video (A James Cameron I'm not) of the Santa Fe system going at about one half top scale speed. 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj4AgOh9hkg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey that looks pretty good.


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

Way cool! Looks pretty steady all the way around. Are you running it on one set of power leads?


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

I am running the track from the MRC Power-G with about 20 feet of 16 gauge heavy lamp chord attached to the GarGraves track with small brass screws. I notice no loss in power or lighting throughout the 65 feet. I do plan to run an accessory line later to accommodate some railroad siding lights. I want to keep this layout simple. In a ceiling train it appears that most people seem attracted to the fact a train is even able to go around a ceiling that they don't notice the lack of background or accessories. I had a couple of neighbors over yesterday and they were glued to the engines going around. One of them even got nauseated following the Santa Fe around the circuit.LOL!


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## SoCalStu (Dec 27, 2007)

Slowing it down may help with the nausea...or you could build a turntable for them to stand on that follows the train around!! Ha! (Just kidding). Nice job. Can't wait to see the steamer!


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## Skyeye (Feb 17, 2010)

I got the Bachmann Royal Blue running tonight. Bachmann trains are problematic. The front truck is too light to stay on the track. I had to weight it down with small alnico magnets to keep it down. They could add a weight or make the truck out of metal instead of cheap plastic. Anyway, after about 5 hours of modification, tweaking and one derailment from ceiling to floor,(miraculously nothing broke except the plastic front truck. I repaired it more solid when I added the magnets. it now runs pretty good as long as you keep the speed reasonably low. 

Heah's da video. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-d4Ik5ef-I


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good. yep do not need to be running trains at a fast clip on that type of layout. keeps the derailments down. Later RJD


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## Shekou Jim (Oct 19, 2009)

Neat layout! Post more pics of it please!


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## Shekou Jim (Oct 19, 2009)

Posted By Shekou Jim on 16 Apr 2010 09:28 PM 
Neat layout! Post more pics of it please! 
P.S. I meant Stanman's wooden roller coaster looking layout - all are nice, but I want to see more pics of that one!


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Shekou Jim on 16 Apr 2010 09:46 PM 
P.S. I meant Stanman's wooden roller coaster looking layout - all are nice, but I want to see more pics of that one!
Here's more pics of my "wooden roller coaster". (I'll agree to "wooden"...) *Overhead Layout*


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## Shekou Jim (Oct 19, 2009)

Posted By stanman on 16 Apr 2010 10:49 PM 
Posted By Shekou Jim on 16 Apr 2010 09:46 PM 
P.S. I meant Stanman's wooden roller coaster looking layout - all are nice, but I want to see more pics of that one!
Here's more pics of my "wooden roller coaster". (I'll agree to "wooden"...) *Overhead Layout* 
Excellent - Thanks! The videos especially gave me food for thought on my indoor project - and also the around-the-wall section. Very cool.


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