# Bachmann 4-6-0. Repairing the "4"



## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

I'm new to G scale and have accumulated about ten of the Bachmann 4-6-0 locos and tenders because I liked them and because I managed to buy them all for nearly nothing. I have three yellow, two circus, two green, oen of which is battery operated/controlled, a few of the maroon colored jobs, and one brand new black loco/tender which has never been run. 

My complaint on them all is the frame for the 4 small wheels in front. It is very cheap, and nearly all of mine are broken. I even bought one that had been repaired by someone who also changed the design a bit and it too is broken. Surely there is a better design available, or plans to make one out of better materials. I'd like to build a new frame (the "I" shaped piece) not buy one, and in the process, make one that will become a 6 instead of a four. Plastic is out, so I thought about trying to make one out of wood. I have oak and several other hardwoods that I could easily cut as many as needed and I'm certain after sanding and painting, they'd look just fine, and ought to hold up better and longer that the crappy plastic stuff. I would also make the wooden frames a bit beefier, or thicker so it would hold up better.

The reason I'm writing is to see if anyone has already tried a similar fix? I found George's website http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1...ftermarket and it is very helpful but the fix he lists for the front 4 wheel set mentions sending it to Barry's Big Trains and that means spending money, which I don't have and I really want to try and build some myself. I could even build the frame out of aluminum or steel. Those could be welded and I guarantee they'd be good for the life of the loco. My friend who is in the recycling business will have exactly what I need I'm sure. 

Anyway, I am unable to find anything on this website to help me. If you have already tried a similar fix and it works, include a few photos and a detailed explanation as well.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Festus

Don't know if the following will be of help to you but it's a Google search of MLS for topics relating to Bachmann pilot trucks.









Google Search of MLS For Bachmann Pilot Truck Topics.[/b]


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Surely there is a better design available, or plans to make one out of better materials. 
Festus, 
As you discovered, Barry's Bigtrains offered a replacement - but I think Barry is retired. He's a member here, so drop him a message and ask if you can copy his design ? 

I'm surprised you are having so much trouble. I've gone through 3 or 4 ten-wheelers and I haven't broken a pilot truck yet! (I probably have one or two in the parts box if you want one.) 

The original was quite rigid, so when you think about the replacement, work out how to make the thing a bit more flexible. One of the topics you'll find above has discussions about weight versus flexibility - I prefer the latter. 

The conventional way to make one is with a couple of strips of brass. Solder them together and drill the axle holes. Cut away what you don't need, like the square corners, and un-solder the pair. Make a cross-piece from bar or tube and solder the frame. Make a long tongue and pivot it in the middle and then screw the end to the frame behind the smokebox saddle. (A photo of Barry's design should show you what I'm talking about.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

This probably isnt the solution you want..but it is *a* solution! 

My Dad's garden railroad (which no longer exists) was built under pine trees..
It was built under pine trees because that was the spot the garden railroad had to be built,
and the multiple trees weren't coming out!  so there it is..here is the loco in its original configuration,
in its pine-needle laden environment:



















The pine needles were a constant operational hazard..even after sweeping the mainline
to the best of our ability, the "Annie" Big Hauler truck would derail constantly ..
after a year or two of this annoyance, we made the decision to take radical steps:



















Looking at it from above, it doesn't look too bad:










This fixed the problem!  The locomotive now ran *much* better..
To compensate for the removal of the pilot truck, I also shortened the front end by reducing the length of the pilot, 
and shorting the smokebox, but even with that, there was still a quite noticable overhang in the front..

Dad passed away in 2009, I now have the locomotive, it is still an 0-6-0, and hasn't run in a few years..
when I get my garden railroad up and running, I plan to add a pilot truck back in, mainly for aesthetic reasons..
I think I will make it a 2-6-0 mogul this time, rather than return it to a 4-6-0 ten-wheeler:










just because I think it needs a pilot wheel up front in order to "look balanced"..(and my garden railroad wont have pine needle issues)
but it doesn't need a pilot truck at all for operational purposes..it runs great as an 0-6-0!

So, its not the most elegant solution, removing the pilot truck completely..
but it *does* work very well! The pilot truck cant derail if it doesn't exist! 

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Oops! on the first read of Festus's post I didnt catch that he was talking about *broken* pilot trucks, not *derailing* pilot trucks! 
my mistake..sorry about that! 

(I am just so used to the issue being derailing trucks, that I guess I just had that in mind from the start, and didnt read the post carefully enough..) 
Well..I will leave my post up anyway, even though it doesnt really answer the question directly.. 
people are always looking for info on this issue, perhaps it will help someone else in the future.. 

sorry for the misreading of the question! I need to be more careful about that.. 
Scot


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Poor Carol, she lost her toes and had a nose job on the smokebox. She is looking better though as long as you don't look down. 

I think Barry Olsen makes improved pilot trucks but not sure if he is still supplying them. 

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

" but the fix he lists for the front 4 wheel set mentions sending it to Barry's Big Trains and that means spending money, which I don't have and I really want to try and build some myself" 

A broken pilot truck casting might be able to be repaired with additional strips of metal or plastic to reinforce it. There's not a great deal of room to make it thicker so I think wood is out. 

Greg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

After the last plummet, mine has that bad habit, I rebuilt part of mine from brass. Works well, but gives track power guys a real headache. Now I need to rebuild the part that I didn't rebuild 'cause it wasn't broke. Yet.


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Festus, 

Just went through a couple of boxes of Bachmann pilot truck frames, these are stock, take offs from units I am converting for my customers. 

I am still here, I am providing warranty for the twenty years of product, still out in the market place. 

Festus, no charge, how many of these frames do you need? 

Barry


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

Barry, I am happy to meet you and glad to hear why I had such a hard time finding www.barrysbigtrains.com or whatever it was. If I want to fix them all, I'll need ten. I'll send my address. Are the original versions really that bad? I've had them on 4' curves and the least little thing, or nothing at all will derail that front set, so thanks to Scott for mentioning the derailing problem. I forgot about it, but wanted to ask. I've broken one or two just trying to put them on the track. I know your replacements are much better and that's the reason I'd like to try and build a better version. I know a couple of metal workers and would like to see if they would be willing to build one out of steel, one from aluminum, and one from brass. I'd weigh all three before using them, then mount them one at a time to the same loco to see if I detect any difference. Then I'll put my oak frame on and see how that one holds up. 

I also wondered about adding a shorter middle axle to make it a 6 instead of a 4, so the shorter axle will allow a little give or play to the middle set for the curves.

Also, my main line, which is the only line these Bachmann's will run on once I finish it, will contain mostly 15' curves and only two 8 footers, plus 5-6 sidings using the 16000 series LGB switches, all of which will need an 8' curve too. I think that means my Bachmann's will have an easier time of it, but when I see the spring Bachmann puts on above the frame, it leads me to believe they are trying to compensate for the lack of weight in their design. But will a heavier frame keep the front 4 wheels from derailing so much or not? George's website mentions adding a lot of weight to keep them from derailing so I don't rightly know.

Keep your comments and suggestions coming. I need them all.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

George's website mentions adding a lot of weight 
If you search the threads here, you'll find debate about the derailing problem. Some folk add weight, but I make the frame loose. The truck is too rigid so it needs more movement of the front axle relative the to rear. 
See the thread "Adding Weight to Bachmann Annie Pilot" http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aft/119580/Default.aspx - lots of pictures and ideas for pilot designs.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By Festus on 21 Apr 2013 08:01 PM 
I also wondered about adding a shorter middle axle to make it a 6 instead of a 4, so the shorter axle will allow a little give or play to the middle set for the curves.

I wouldn't. For one thing, I'm not sure where the wheel would fit without hitting the cylinders, or how it would look - very few locomotives had a three axle front truck.

The other thing is that you don't want the axle being shorter. You don't really need it, but more to the point it will tend to pick guard rails and turnouts because the flanges won't be where they should be.

If you feel the need for a center axle, take a cue from the locomotive itself and remove the flanges instead.


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

I used to put weight on the first axle of the pilot frame and had an arm from the bottom plate to the post on the pilot truck frame, a big improvement, but still not like it should be. The about 10 or 12 years ago I was working on a chassis for the Bachmann Annie. Bachmann gave us asiderod with a hinge, therefore license to let the first axle equalize and it works beautifully, the four drivers are constantly on the track for better elec. pickup and better traction. Thats when I finally solved the pilot truck problem, by allowing the pilot truck frame to flex, which means when either frame rail is raised or lowered independently of the other frame rail the wheels are constantly on the rail.....and they don't come off. 

Barry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

when either frame rail is raised or lowered independently of the other frame rail the wheels are constantly on the rail.....and they don't come off 
Like this? (from the thread "Adding weight . . ." referenced above)


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Pete, 

It looks right, especially if the opposite wheel is on the track, while the visable wheel is in the air. 

Barry


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## SnowMen09 (Feb 16, 2014)

Hello Everyone, 

I too have acquired a G-Scale train with a broken pilot truck (4-6-0) and understand your frustration! I have been looking for two years trying to find just that piece to no avail... 

I just sent Barry a PM here about the part... 

Thank you all for the information!!!


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

link to George Schreyer's website. He offers tips on remodeling the 4-6-0's front trucks and other persnickety qualities of the Big Hauler.

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I fixed my pilot truck by using superglue and paper. This behaves like fiberglass with resin. The paper is a strong matrix of fibers when soaked in superglue. And several layers applied over the break.


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

One more mod I did was to insulate the two power pickups, because mine would touch at the worst spots on the track.


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

I have a BBT big hauler frame I bought from Doc Watson for a project I hope to finish someday [hope to]. Anyway, I was impressed with the leaf spring setup Barry uses and it's quite similar to the one that George Schreyer shows how to make on the website I listed above and I have a 3rd Gen big hauler that has pilot truck issues and may copy their design to replace the coil spring with the leaf spring that seems to give the proper downforce with better slop/play for improved tracking. Read down on George's suggestions near the bottom. He gives a design plan for making the new truck mount out of brass strip with two holes drilled in it:
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/...uler_tips.html

If this link doesn't work, try the one on my previous post. It works.

I have also wondered if anyone has just tried cutting down the coil spring a bit to ease some pressure off the truck and make more slop. [?]


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