# NCE Power Pro 10R question



## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I was running 2 trains tonight on my layout, 1 was a FA/FB1 pulling 5 USAT Aluminum Streamliners with all the lights sound and smoke turned on, the second was an E8 pulling 5 USAT Aluminum Streamliners with all lights, smoke and sound turned on.

I was running both trains with no problems until I decided that they were behind schedule and needed to make up some time









I had the E8 at 100 and when I throttled up the FA/FB1 to 90 everything went black and both trains stopped dead. After about 30 secs to a minute everything came back on and worked fine until I ramped up the speeds then the same thing happened again. I am using a regulated 27 volt 10amp power supply (same one Greg E uses). 

I am guessing that I have exceeded the power limits of the NCE system and that the circuit protection tripped. Is there a way to increase the max amps, or is 10 amps the wall? I figure that the E8 and FA/FB each draw about 2-2.5 amps at max power, how much do the USAT Streamliners draw per car, am guessing that it is more than I thought it was. 

Thanks, Ron


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Ron,

Sounds for sure like you exceeded the amperage limits of the NCE equipment. 

Sounds like you need to either add another booster and power supply and wire your layout/oval in separate blocks (so one train is on one block and the other on the other block) or go with equipment that can handle the amperage like what Train Li offers www.train-li-usa.com (go to Products, Sound and Digital, Central Station) - 16amp $1500

This is the reason some of us DCS users use 25-30amp Bridgewerks power supplies so we can power our layout (no blocks) whether it needs 5amps or 30amps. In G scale you can find out just how quickly you can go through 10amps.


Raymond


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, sounds like you went over the amperage limit. Were you running Arsto's F1 or the USAAT f3? USAT locos are notorious in some circles fro drawing a lot of amps--see George Schreyer's page for an example. Some have disputed this--I don't know that facts, but several manufacturers make decoders specifically for the high amperage of USAT locos. But it's also true that a train of lighted cars can draw a good deal of amperage, especially if the cars have incandescent lights in them. I switched all my incandescents to LEDs for that reason. Leds draw an infinitesimal amount of current. I'm not sure a second booster would make a difference--Greg would probably know. First thing I would do is check what's in those streamliners, and convert to LEDs 

This site: 

http://www.trainaidsa.com/ 

Has some screw in replacement led bulbs available. I just used LEDs from a string of Christmas lights


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

OK thats what I thought, over loaded.
The cars lights do draw a lot of current will have to change to LEDs I think, during the day I can run 5-6 engines at the same time all day with no problems.

Thanks Guys, Ron


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I measured anywhere from 0.7 to 1.5 amps on my lighted USAT passenger cars. 

Really easy to have the passenger cars use up more amps than the locos! 

I'm going to convert all my USAT streamliners to LEDs... not too hard, there is a PC board strip inside that slides out. 

Anyway, another solution is to buy another NCE 10 amp booster, I think about $150, and run the outer loop on one booster, and the inner on the other. Now each of your loops has 10 amps. Of course you probably need another 10 amp supply. 

That's what I would do first. I'd still have the project of changing lights. 

Regards, Greg


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

The only problem with really large power supplies is that you need to make sure the wiring can deal with it. Also, if something derails, there is a chance something is going to go up in flames if the short goes through a lighted car or the engine. 

I think my MTH passenger cars use at least 1/2A each which are all on incandescent bulbs -- I will be changing those in the near future to LEDs. 

Tom


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My suggestion is a second, separate supply to go to his second booster, no higher than what he is using now, he would have 2 separate 10 amp "power districts". 

I do agree minimizing the current draw in passenger cars, but the reality is that you can get very close to 5 amps with 3 locos, so you need to go the next "increment" up in track power. 

The MTH guys run 25 amp power on the rails all the time. 

Regards, Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

The only problem with really large power supplies is that you need to make sure the wiring can deal with it. Also, if something derails, there is a chance something is going to go up in flames if the short goes through a lighted car or the engine. 

I use #10 wire on the buss with #12 track feeders & automotive blade type fuses on each power wire..I've had plenty of derailments & blown fuses but no electronics destroyed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Same here, except when I dropped a rod (screw came out) and let a decoder sit at 5 amps continuously for a while! 

I have been thinking of fusing or polyfuses on the loco pickup wires, that's what often leads to melted stuff. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dennis Cherry (Feb 16, 2008)

I was going to start a business in converting the USA passenger car lights to LED's, but the cost of shipping was prohibitive.


Shipping the cars both ways was costly. One car, The Vista Dome Car, needs to be dis-assembled as there is one screw almost in the middle of the car holding the light strip to the floor of the Dome area.

It takes a special jig, which I built, to remove the car body from the under carriage.

My circuit design took the approximately 3/4 amp per car to just 100 ma per car.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree, LEDs are the way to go. I'm intending on converting mine, because my single 6 or 7 car train is running right near 9.5 amps (3 Aristo E8's). 

Regards, 

Greg


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