# BN GP30 Build



## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

So I've made enough progress now I can start sharing my latest project. As with the rest of my builds don't expect this one to be done anytime soon.








After getting a great deal on a used GP30 to add to the roster of BN power I decided to model a former GN GP30 before it was repainted in BN green. 
The prototype was GN 3000 before it was renumber with the merger to BN 2200.








Notice it doesn't have the BN number yet, but here it does.








The burned out area is where the BN patch and number normally are. Kind of like this one.








So without further background here's some photos.








Bare and naked, after stripping down with 90% rubbing alcohol 








As with almost every single model of a GP30 that has been made the fan spacing is incorrect due to the original EMD drawing showing the fans spaced wider. So first off was to move the fans.








While I was at it I also added the ~1" scale metal plate over the dynamic brake fan.








Say what happened to the last fan?
















The last fan will be changed to a 48" flared fan that EMD used for a short time on GP20's. The BN 2200 was built with a 48" flat fan, but at some point in time it was replaced with the 48" flared fan.
I'm also changing the grab irons and hand rails to 0.025" music wire to better represent the correct thickness








A new pilot sheet was built as well.








And if all that wasn't enough to drive me crazy with details I also started to rebuild the sideframes








If all of this seems a bit random, well it is







I'm not really following any specific order on what I do, but changing what I want when I see that it looks overscaled... Next up on the list is to build new narrower steps, maybe detail the interior of the cab, and finish all the half done parts!
Craig


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking good Craig!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey - Look who's in here now!!! Great thread buddy!! 

Finally get to see a GP-30 specialist at work!! 

I'm guessing hand rails were only about 3/4 in. thick?!! 

Will wait for that tapered fan housing your working on - on the kitchen table!! 

Might want one just because... it's different!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm kind of stumped on how to make the flared fan... I have some basic measurements but I'm debating how to go about it. I wish I had a lathe. Than there's an issue of the grills; etch? 
Handrails and grabs are about 3/4" thick. Good guess! Way oversized on the USA loco's and cabooses. Problem is now I want to upgrade everything in the fleet.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Up grade away, I'll send you more!! ha 

I cheated - I reverse engineered the railings! knew 1'' was about .032'' ( .0344'' )actual... 

Ever make a cone before? 

You could do the same, basically a long arc that suits the shrouds size and form it into a circle, add on top of the base and have fun?! Even make it from 2 halves.... 

got a pic of the grill you need? 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

'' ever make a cone before ''.... 

You'll need a good side view drawing of the fan and the upwards taper .. 

Draw two lines thru each of the upper tapers, down to the middle / center line below the fan top ( inside the loco hood area )... 

This forms a pie as you look at it.. the point is down ... 

you next use 2 dimensions to draw a circle or arc, these being the points at the bottom and the top of the tapered portion ...measured up the side on one of the lines you just drew... 

Using the formula for 'pie' ( 3.1416 ) you can calc out the main diameter of the fan base housing, and then the slightly larger top of the taper... 

These two should give you a narrow arc that will be the length of the arc you drew...the length is what your figuring here... 

try a easy drawing on paper first, cut it out and roll it into the taper you need and tape it to the fan base to check and see what your doing. 

When your happy with the results, you can make one from plastic sheet the same way!! 

Need assistance, be back tomorrow! 

Dirk


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Or you could stack overlapping plastic rings or circles, graduated sizes, glue and then file to shape. Sand smooth and glue in place.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Look for a neck on a soda pop bottle that matches, enjoy the drink and cut out a slice


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 06 Jan 2013 09:34 PM 

Ever make a cone before? 



Yep I've made a few cones before..








Just a bit bigger than what I need for the flared fan.








The small size is what is messing with my head.. It's only 4" scale tall, and increases from 48" to 52"....


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Very nice. Looking forward to seeing your progress.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I don't want your head messed with Craig, ha,.. I sent ya' a layout drawing on how to figure & make a tapered upper fan edge!! looks like some brass shim stock of .008'' - .010'' could represent a part about 1/4 in. thick and be easy to cut out!! 

Stay tuned!! 

Dirk


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Progress of today. The battery boxes on both sides had slightly different hinge style so of course I had to change it.


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## Conrail Mark (Feb 18, 2012)

Great to see a GP30 being upgraded. I have been thinking about making a CSX GP30 Slug for a while - Looking at your build has spurred me into action. 2013 will be the 'year of the slug'!


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## DTI356 (Jan 3, 2008)

Craig, 

Looks great so far....except: Not to pick nits but......I believe I read somewhere the F.R.A. minimum handrail dimension was 1.125" on locomotives. I'll try to find that info....my memory may be wrong there. 

I know I fell into the trap of overcompensating by making something smaller till I found out the real dimension. 

As for grab irons that's a different story. the F.R.A. minimum is 5/8" and most are 3/4" dia. It depends on the Railroad as some use 11/16" others as big as 7/8"....I believe most use 3/4" though. 

I'll try to find the definitive info for the GP-30, but that may take some time.....If someone has access they could maybe measure one....I know there's one at the Pennsy Museum in Strasburg.....I'm sure there are others.....anyone close that could measure that? 

Also Craig, do you have any articles on the GP-30's? I think Mainline Modeler had a good one (I probably have it here). 

Brian


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Brian - interesting thoughts, can you give a time frame for your comments - regarding when the FRA may have implemented these standards?? 

Thanks, 

Dirk


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By DTI356 on 08 Jan 2013 07:38 PM 
Craig, 

Looks great so far....except: Not to pick nits but......I believe I read somewhere the F.R.A. minimum handrail dimension was 1.125" on locomotives. I'll try to find that info....my memory may be wrong there. 

I know I fell into the trap of overcompensating by making something smaller till I found out the real dimension. 

As for grab irons that's a different story. the F.R.A. minimum is 5/8" and most are 3/4" dia. It depends on the Railroad as some use 11/16" others as big as 7/8"....I believe most use 3/4" though. 

I'll try to find the definitive info for the GP-30, but that may take some time.....If someone has access they could maybe measure one....I know there's one at the Pennsy Museum in Strasburg.....I'm sure there are others.....anyone close that could measure that? 

Also Craig, do you have any articles on the GP-30's? I think Mainline Modeler had a good one (I probably have it here). 

Brian 
Nit pick away!








I'll change the details if I can find more convincing evidence. I really wish I would have taken a tape measure to work with me, when I had access to these locomotives (and other types too) every single day. Live and learn!
I don't have the mainline modeler article. I'd take a scanned copy of it if you can send it to me. I'm trying to source EMD drawings for different parts (especially the 48" flared fans). They have to be in some archive somewhere, because all the HO scale detail parts are based off of something...
Brian, you interested in photo etched parts? Grills, fans, steps? Between Dirk and I we've got a couple of ideas.


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## DTI356 (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I can't find the article I read that quoted the FRA size. But I did look around thru google and if anyone wants to read the government Code Of Federal Regulations 49 CFR 231 it states the handrails must be a minimum of 1" and grabs must be a minimum of 5/8". With that said I remember climbing up onto a GP9 and thinking wow, these are big diameter pipes I'm hanging onto. My educated guess would be they use 1" dia. pipe which has and O.D. of 1.31. Funny, the HO guys use .015 dia wire for handrails, and that would scale up to .045 in 1/29 scale.....and that equates to 1.31 in real life....hence, my conclusion. 

Anybody reading this that goes to ECLSTS could swing by the museum in Strasburg and measure the one there. 

Here's a picture I took of the Conrail engine at the museum. notice the grabs attached to the nose and compare it to how much bigger the handrails are. 










Craig, looking at your handle I assume you rode a few engines in your day. 

I'm not building much in the way of engines as I have mine finished and it'll be a while before I'd be ready to work on another....so, I don't have an interest in the photo etched parts. 

Dirk, The standard I quoted above was the current one....but I did find the Code of Federal Regulation for 1949 and it said the same thing....handrails min. 1" and grabs a min. of 5/8" dia. 
Some regulations last a long time.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Brian, 

Thanks for your input. I was interested in the time frame that pertained to the one Craig is modeling in - but it seems that a long time span is covered with really no major changes, they have been established very early on... 
Nice, clear pic of a 30 above also!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the follow up Brian. I guess I'll be re redoing the hand rails. I didn't get them all done. The hard part will be trying to open back up the hole. Oops! But the stock USA ones measure .050" so they are still a 'little' oversized. 
0.0344" x 1.31 = .045" 
USA = 0.050" 
I wonder if it's worth redoing them. But they still look out of place to me. So maybe .040" stock? 
Yep I've been on both sides of the cab for about 8 years. Never took one picture while I was at work. 

As for photo etched parts I'm thinking about cars too.. You've been the car builder for a while now so you would know what works, and what's needed. A all door Thrall build is on my list after this loco gets finished. 
Craig 

Thanks to information from Brian, I now need to extend the fireman's side of the cab back 10"








And remove the handrail support as the loco I'm modeling was built in '63, and these changes were made in '62! Ah the joys of prototype modeling.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

So here's a drawing of a GP30 from Mainline Modeler, May '89. 








It shows both cab designs. 
The scan from "Loco 1 The Diesel" 








Both of them are still messed up when it comes to fan spacing... 
Here's my GP30 








You can see where I noted that the cab needed to be extended, but say what? "USA made/makes such a model?" 








So I wonder what USA models have the original style and which ones have the extended version?


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## DTI356 (Jan 3, 2008)

Craig, 

That's really interesting that USA would tool up both versions. And surprising they did not advertise it. 

And also unfortunate you didn't get the stretched version.....you must be related to Murphy (ha ha)


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So - Craig, why not call Mike at USA and tell him what you need, get an extended cab - if in fact they make such a beast.. Ask for a cab only with ....bla . bla... 

It would be money and time ahead if they do have one!! 

Dirk


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Craig,
Another interesting project you've taken on here. I've also tried going smaller on the hand rails but I find that 3/64" works best and you'll spend less time straightening them up after every operating run of your loco.
With regards to the cab size, you had me in a little panic mode for a moment as I have two CPR GP-30's waiting (two years now) to go through an upgrade program. I've checked them out and they both have the extended cab (one side only) per the prototype. The prototype by the way is only eight miles away, one of only two that the CPR purchased. I think it's waiting for someone to buy it. It doesn't have the coned fan housing, but I do have photo's on the hood roof and other parts if you think they will be of help to you.
Cheers.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Harvey, 
Any pictures would be great. They might not be specific to my loco but it sure helps figuring everything out. 

Craig


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By DTI356 on 10 Jan 2013 05:41 PM 
Craig, 

That's really interesting that USA would tool up both versions. And surprising they did not advertise it. 

And also unfortunate you didn't get the stretched version.....you must be related to Murphy (ha ha) 
It is interesting.. I'm wondering what models got the extended version and which ones didn't. Ordering a new cab is only half the parts.. The other half is a new battery box underneath as it's extended as well. 

If I order a new cab and battery box I would have an 'extra' cab for another project... Hummm








Rocky says that his GN 3004 Gp30 from USA has the extended cab. So Rocky's model is right for the GN version.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

I have a 8201 CP and it also has the long cab 
dick


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## DTI356 (Jan 3, 2008)

I just checked mine......I had bought a Milw Rd at clearance price with the intentions of kitbashing a GP-35 (a project for a far in the future date) 

The Milwaukee Road unit (R22464) has the extended cab.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Craig,
Here are some of the top end. I was going to send them to you directly, but by posting them they may help others.
































































Cheers


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Anyone willing to trade a short cab for an extended cab? 

Craig


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

great project,,, ,really inspiring me to repaint my gp30 from the early cp livery to the cp red livery around the early seventies so great photos harvey,,,, i never get to see close up the fans etc on top,,, just side views etc,,,, so if any ones got any tips on whats req body mods wise please pass any info on,,, correct grills bell etc,, 

just great,,,,,, 

daveyb


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I can't really tell you what is specific to your locomotive, well, because every locomotive is different. If you really want to model a correct locomotive the only way to do it is to find pictures, lots of pictures so you can figure out what needs to be changed. And what your willing to live with and what your willing to change... For example are the .050" handrails that USA supplies good enough, or do you replace them with wire closer to .043"... It's decisions like that! 

Craig


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ya Dave, later CP's are Cool... 

Pick out a unit, pick out a cab number, and enjoy your researching!! Have a go at it!! 

I have a SD40-2 all picked out and it is different from most 40-2's around, even other CP units!!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Davey,
I'm please the photographs might be of use to you. The engine looks to be in a bit of a sad state, hopefully it survives the wrecking ball.
These are some more photo's I took for myself for when I finally take mine off the shelf.
















































Cheers.


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

harvey thats really helpfull,,, stuck in the uk its not easy to get info on the differences between locos,,,,, in the uk you get used to the small detail changes and differences over many many years but i am starting from scratch when it comes to north american 1 29 g scale,,,,,,,,, kind of got a good deal on some usa trains canadian pacific stock and i want to model the early seventies as i have a aristo e8,,,, a gp9,,, and a gp30,,,, in the early liveries,,,,, and i have a gp9, a gp 38-2 and a some fa/b1s to play about with and paint/modifiy into early red livery, the gp9 will be the passenger version and the gp38-2 will become a gp38ac to fit in timescale wise 

its the little differences like the bells and lights which seem to be diferent on cp locos,,, and even different between classmates,,,, and i love the gp9s with the whacking great big light on the front/back,,, 
and i have no idea why they have them,,,, apart from the obvious,,, 

so i might be picking all your brains in the near future,,,, 

once again great photos harvey!!,,,, really apreciated,,, 

daveyb


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

oh and is it feasible to convert a usa f3 into a fp7,,,, anyone done it????


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hello Davey B, 

Collect online info for both locos, esp. lots and lots of photos - till you understand what needs to change and what your willing to change also. 

Then jump in, .. cut, glue and dabble to your hearts content... 

Pick one area or part and get it right then move on,... 

Probably best to start in the frame and chassis area, build a foundation to get up on wheels, then the side frames as needed and the fuel tank, couplers and details, if your happy go so far as to paint that unit and have it done!!! Accomplishments are important here. 

Dive into the detail changes on the car body next..! Also,... just found lengths for these 2 locos, seems to be 2' - 8'' greater in length for the FP than the F unit. Stretching the car body time, so You will need to spend time to verify this and many other changes part of this loco. I might offer to you - if your choose this path,.. to purchase an extra F-3 car body from USA Trains - Parts dept.. as a donor!!

Have fun - show us what your up to from time to time, & jump in here for help and questions once in awhile....!! 

It's all Fun!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

These are some of the sites I normally check for loco photos. 
http://www.locophotos.com/ 
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/ 
http://www.railpictures.net/ 
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ 
I also check BN specific sites (and GN, NP, CB&Q, etc as I model the early BN days) for BN specific locomotives. I'm sure some railfan of the CP has done something similar. This is where having a specific road number is helpful, and google is your friend. You can search for say BN 2200, and get results from across many different sites, but if you search BN GP-30 the results are different. The research can take just as much time, if not longer than the actual build! 
Craig


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Enjoying this thread, as I've got two or three GP30s to repaint into Sacramento Valley Garden Rwy Society colors. Since you skipped over the disassembly part, can I assume it's pretty simple? Looks like all the windows, rails, fans, etc., come out. Is the entire body one piece? it would be best for ME if it were in about three parts. 

TIA.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Dick, 
The hood is one piece, the cab is one piece, most everything pops out (windows, etc). If you want I can take a bunch of pictures of the different parts? The hood and frame are the biggest part. 

Craig


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bnsfconductor on 11 Jan 2013 11:11 AM 
Anyone willing to trade a short cab for an extended cab? 

Craig 
Craig, 
I happen to have a Milwaukee Road GP30 shell!
I will trade you for whatever shell you have..

Scot


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 25 Jan 2013 08:11 PM 
Posted By bnsfconductor on 11 Jan 2013 11:11 AM 
Anyone willing to trade a short cab for an extended cab? 

Craig 
Craig, 
I happen to have a Milwaukee Road GP30 shell!
I will trade you for whatever shell you have..

Scot

Scot,
Thanks for the offer, but I've already have started to cut up the cab and battery box of mine. So it's a mute point.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Dick, 
Here's some pictures that may help explain. 
First is the bottom of the frame. The four holes you see are normally hidden by the motor block, but a long screwdriver will reach through the block to unscrew. 








Here it is without the motor block. 








Motor block removed (the screw is on the inside of the frame) 








Once you have all the screws taken out of the bottom of the frame, you can than flip the loco over, and disassemble to the cab from the hood. You'll end up with a bunch of pieces like this... 








This is the inside of the frame. The posts are all the screw holes that hold the hood piece to the frame. 









Pretty much everything comes apart. I'd recommend at least removing the windows, and the electronics if your going to strip the paint off. All the detail parts will come off. If they don't come off by pulling, once you soak them to remove the paint they will loosen, and be a lot easier to remove (if you choose to do so). 
Hope this helps. Greg E has some good tips on how to pull apart the F3 unit (similar set up to the GP units). 
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/usat-motive-power/f3/f3-disassembly 

Craig


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Some pictures would be helpful. I've never taken on such a big project! I'm scared off by the prospect of getting paint in the motors and gear boxes!


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

You cleaned the bodies off with denatured alcohol? Did you soak the parts, or scrub them. I've used brake fluid before, it doesn't smell as bad! Maybe I'll do the cleaning outdoors (when it warms up)!


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Dick Friedman on 26 Jan 2013 12:02 AM 
You cleaned the bodies off with denatured alcohol? Did you soak the parts, or scrub them. I've used brake fluid before, it doesn't smell as bad! Maybe I'll do the cleaning outdoors (when it warms up)! 
This is what I did to strip the parts. I went out and bought a bunch of 91% rubbing alcohol, and then scrounged around the house for some tupperware containers..







I put all the pieces except the frame and hood piece in the alcohol filled tupperware containers, and put the lid on. Than I went up to school, and work for the day, and when I came home for lunch I pulled everything out, and before placing into a new container for fresh rubbing alcohol I scrubbed the parts off with an old toothbrush. Than I placed then in a fresh container for the rest of the day. By the end of the day all the paint had been removed.







I had originally tried both nail polish remover (works fast, but melts the plastic, and leaves a film)







and I also tried 70% rubbing alcohol (works okay, but has to sit 3-4 days before the paint comes off) Now for the frame and hood pieces I had to jury rig something up, so the process was a bit longer. But you could take a couple of plastic bags and line the inside of a box that is the length/width of the frame hood pieces and than let them soak. What I did was take the longest container I could find in the house, and dunked about half the frame and hood in it, and let it sit without a cover. It kind of stunk the house up...








After everything was stripped of the paint I washed the parts off with warm soapy water. And then cleaned out the tupperware for the wife.








Since you've got 2 locomotives to strip you should strip them at the same time as once the rubbing alcohol has been used too many times (and exposed to air) it looses it's effectiveness. The other thing to know is that when you soaking this parts, sometimes the press fit parts will come out into the bottom of the container. 
I've tried brake fluid in the past, but I'll never go back to it. The 90% rubbing alcohol works great and it doesn't take to long. And if you let it sit for a couple of days it doesn't crack or craze the plastic at all.

Craig


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Dick Friedman on 25 Jan 2013 11:52 PM 
Some pictures would be helpful. I've never taken on such a big project! I'm scared off by the prospect of getting paint in the motors and gear boxes! 
If you remove the motor blocks from the frame as I did you don't need to worry about getting paint in the motors. The sideframes come off easy if you want to repaint those to a different color. If you feel like you'll be confused on how to put everything back together once your ready take a digital picture at every step that you do. Than you can look at the pictures in reverse order to put it back together.

Craig


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

For both of you and others reading this, I used a piece of cardboard larger than the large container that holds the big parts to act as a lid. It does not seal , but helps with the evaporation and smell, but I also do not do My paint work in my home. 

Using the painters masking tape - the blue kind - is great to mask off unwanted areas also, low stick is it's trademark! 

I use news papers or lately simply paper towels doubled up to use as easy masking, plus tape to hold it in place, but first masking tape to form a good edge and seal - then the tape with towels to cover larger areas.. I have used this when covering on multi - coat paint jobs, letting drying times be longer than might be normal, depending on the season - cold or warm.. And it looks like a multi-coat is in someones future - green on green! 

For 'crisp' line work on painted surfaces I use the 1/4'' blue plastic tape. It gives great edge work and pulls edges clean during removal also. Not in a hurry at this point tho - when removing it, and after paint is fairly dry. 

Dick - don't you have a thread some where for your GP30 repaint into a pair of SVGRR units for your club? Some how we can help you get your work done! You'll be fine, one step at a time is all!! Is Matt in your club? 

What's next - back to Craig's GP-30 custom rebuild I spect'..!! And commercial break!! 
What are your working on now Craig? 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 26 Jan 2013 11:16 AM 

What are your working on now Craig? 

Dirk - DMS Ry. 

You couldn't tell from the pictures... Look closely at this one..








I'm actually really busy with grad school right now so not much progress to speak of. Comprehensive exams, thesis, internship, job hunting, regular class work are all taking priority over trains at the moment. I keep telling myself to work on it for 30 minutes a day..


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So - work on it 30 minutes a day!! I'll let Ya!! 

Yep - I noticed last night, cab corner missing!! Battery box cut and taped together... 

Scotty had a nice offer.. but you were too fast I guess!! 

Space the parts - add sheet between and some filler. good to go!! 

Dirk


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 26 Jan 2013 11:54 AM 
Battery box cut and taped together... 

Scotty had a nice offer.. but you were too fast I guess!! 

Space the parts - add sheet between and some filler. good to go!! 

Dirk 

It ain't tape you're seeing. I'm already done with the battery box. Filled the gap with .060" styrene, and then a cover of .010" to match the bottom of the battery box. Gaps have been filled already too!


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Craig,
Thanks for the disassembly photographs, I didn't know the cab roof came off. This will help the likes of Davey and myself who are doing CPR versions. The headlights on these engines are on the short hood and the bell is were USAT put the headlights, as per the Great Northern.
The bucket headlights that Davey mentioned were used on early CPR GP-9's, but I'm not sure how long they lasted. I should be able to find out if anyone is interested.
As per usual, there's lots of good information here.
Cheers.


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

I've hijacked this thread long enough. I'm going back into lurking and learning mode. I don't think I've got a thread here. maybe on Large Scale Central, but I confuse easily nowadays. 

I wonder if the moderator could move my diversion into its own thread? TIA, moderator.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't worry about it. Ask any questions you want! I'm not too worried about thread drift...


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Craig, what exactly is the rubbing alcohol you are using? Google came up with several types - need to know what to ask for locally as we don't have US labelled products.. 

Have also tried brake fluid, and citrus solvents with no luck in the past. 

Cheers 
Neil


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

The stuff I'm using is labeled as 
"91% Isopropyl Alcohol" 
First Aid Antispetic. 

I bought the 32 oz size, but smaller sizes are available. I would assume Neil that you guys have drug store type stores, it's in the first aid section. 
Craig


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hi Neil,
I also use the Isopropyl Alcohol only at the 99% concentration for getting paint off. Typically I use this in an oversize container with a sealable lid, however I sometimes can't get the lid on depending on what I'm cleaning so next time I'm going to try Craig's sealable bag method. I think that might be better and use less alcohol.
This is a photo of my two GP-30's fresh out of the box in September 2009. One lap around the yard and that was it. I keep on starting other stuff and delaying these. I guess I need to be better disciplined.










Cheers.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Craig, Harvey, 

Isopropyl it is. Shouldn't be too hard to track down. 

Cheers 
N


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Another place to look is in a good paint store. I picked up a quart (you remember those) today in one of our smaller hardware store chains. (OSH)


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Dick, 
So have you gotten it disassembled yet?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

the drug store CVS is where I find the high octane 91% stuff. not a bad $ either!!! 

So Craig, you gun'na build a fresh snow plow - say .010'' brass sheet - formed with the tiny crease lines like a real one has??!!!! 

Dirk - more detail man!! How's that paper coming - get off on your trip to collect info yet?


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Project is back on track after being derailed by grad school. Now that I'm officially done I can spend more time working on modeling projects. So I spent the better part of the day working on the cab. 
Before:








After:








The crew gained a total of 10" on the fireman's side! Tomorrow I should be able to finish the cab floor and back wall hopefully. Then it's time to detail the cab interior. 

Craig


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## DTI356 (Jan 3, 2008)

Craig, 

First, congrats on getting thru school. 

Glad to have you back to modeling......have fun!


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

good to see you back 
dick


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks! The last two months have been crazy trying to get everything finished for grad school, and the trains got pushed aside. Hopefully I can find a job sooner than later, and really relax! But now at least I have time and space to work on my modeling projects. Yesterday I moved the handbrake further back into the handbrake recess, and shortened the handbrake chain. As it comes modeled, the hand brake would be applied (and to USAT credit, the brake cylinders on the trucks reflect this). But I decided long ago that my brake pistons were going to be in the released position. Therefore, I would need to shorten the hand brake chain. So I moved the brake handle back into the recess, and added an actual chain links. Then I used my Dremel as a mini-lathe and created the round weight on the end of the chain. Pictures soon. It's a tiny little detail, but it sticks out in my mind. While I had the 'lathe' out I also started work on a new brake cylinder. Only 6 more to make...


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Interestingly, I saw a BN GP30 out on the line yesterday, running south of Hudson, CO. Didn't know they were still out on the rails, but given its paint (green/black/white BN) and the blue/yellow "Santa Fe" unit running with it (A GP 35 or similar), this must be one of those branchlines where they send old locos to work until they fall apart. Cool to see, though. 

Later, 

K


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin, 
Most likely it was a GP30 rebuild. The BN upgraded the GP30 fleet to have more up to-date microprocessors, etc. Most of them got reclassified as GP39's, but they still retain that classic GP30 streamline look.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's some more details to enjoy.










The original brake cylinder









I chucked it up in my dremel, and turned down the piston a bit to represent a released piston.









A little more work and its looking better









Added a brake line.









The sideframes are going to get new brake shoes as well, along with some other details.

And speaking of brakes I cut out the old molded in handbrake chain and replaced it with and actual chain. While I was cutting it out I moved the whole handbrake assemble back into the recess so the handbrake would be flush with the side of the locomotive instead of sticking out as USAT makes it. I made a new weight on the end of the chain with a .080" square piece of styrene and turned it down.









Replaced the grabs with new music wire (.026")









Craig


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## general1861 (Jan 22, 2010)

Looks really cool Craig !! Keep up the good work. Congrats on your grad degree too!, Travis


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

That's looking sharp, Craig. I'm glad to see you going the extra mile and improving the details. These large scale models can really show off the details, so it's great to see htem done so well. 

It's clear you've been around the prototype a bit, as well. Who else would think to model the brake cylinders released?


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By DKRickman on 01 May 2013 06:15 AM 
That's looking sharp, Craig. I'm glad to see you going the extra mile and improving the details. These large scale models can really show off the details, so it's great to see htem done so well. 

It's clear you've been around the prototype a bit, as well. Who else would think to model the brake cylinders released? 
Got to make sure the locomotive meets Daily Inspection requirements







I'll be out measuring brake shoe piston travel and plow height









Seriously I think those little details add up. You should see what I did to the control stand inside the locomotive... USAT molds it as: centered, notch eight, transition handle in neutral, full independent, and released automatic.... Humm interesting way to charge the air brake system!


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

the control stand inside the locomotive... USAT molds it as: centered, notch eight, transition handle in neutral, full independent, and released automatic.... Humm interesting way to charge the air brake system! 

Interesting. Do you ever wonder how they come up with details like that? I've also noticed that most model brake cylinders (on locomotives, at least) seem to be made with the pistons out - at least that makes sense, since that's how they would be while sitting still.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By DKRickman on 01 May 2013 06:23 PM 
the control stand inside the locomotive... USAT molds it as: centered, notch eight, transition handle in neutral, full independent, and released automatic.... Humm interesting way to charge the air brake system! 

Interesting. Do you ever wonder how they come up with details like that? I've also noticed that most model brake cylinders (on locomotives, at least) seem to be made with the pistons out - at least that makes sense, since that's how they would be while sitting still. 
I've wondered that too myself. I guess the model train manufacturers haven't actually be inside a cab.. I'm trying to decide if I should model the stairwell down to the nose... If I can find a decent picture of the back wall of the cab on a EMD GP unit I was thinking I might cut and paste onto the back wall of the model. Doesn't have to be specific to a GP30, but I thought it might add a bit of interior texture.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

So I haven't forgotten about this project. 








What's changed from the original USAT control stand? 
And what the heck does it have to do with these two other details? 

















Craig


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

That's the brakes 

Looks good. 

John!


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Not just the brakes John...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I've not seen the USA original for the first Question... 

Begs the question.... 

Is it done yet???


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

This is similar to what the control stand should look like. A bit more modern. From a SD40-2.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I think Craig is alluding to his previously mentioned intent to run with the brakes in the released position on the loco... everywhere on the loco, all brake related components; truck pods, external cab chain tensioner, and the cab controls - all in sync!! 

Great work Craig!! 

I detect shades of Marty rubbing off on You John!! hehe.... 

Dirk


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Craig, 

It's my understanding that road locos have a Track Image Recorder and an Event Recorder.
Looking at the SD40-2 control stand picture, are these recorders physically there, or are they located elsewhere - maybe inside the car body with the diesel? 

Just wondering and thank you, 
-Ted


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 15 Jul 2013 11:52 AM 
Craig, 

It's my understanding that road locos have a Track Image Recorder and an Event Recorder.
Looking at the SD40-2 control stand picture, are these recorders physically there, or are they located elsewhere - maybe inside the car body with the diesel? 

Just wondering and thank you, 
-Ted 
The event recorder (I've never heard of the track image recorder, are you taking about forward facing camera?) is located inside the back wall of the locomotive cab. The older units have a physical tape that you can remove and replace ( I know some engineers who carry around a blank tape... Not sure how good that would do). On the newer locomotives the event recorder is a black box, again located at the rear wall of the cab. A standard computer interface (like a monitor plug) is where the Road Foreman hooks up his laptop and can down load the information. The modern units also have a auto-down load that is monitored 24/7 by a IT guy miles away (for BNSF it's Fort Worth). Any time you having a triggering event; stretch braking, power braking, emergency, etc the locomotive automatic downloads to the server, and our road foreman gets a message so by the time you tie up the Road Foreman's on the phone asking you why you stretch braked, etc. That takes the fun out of running







Thankfully I learned how to run on SD40-2's that don't have auto-down loads, and I taught myself how to power and stretch brake.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thank you Craig, Very interesting. 

There is info. in 49 CFR part 229.135 that pertains to Event Recorders. 
See "Motive Power and Equipment Compliance Manual" (apparent inspection oriented document) at below link - long download time. 
(See section 8-16 with respect to Event Recorder - Includes other interesting info, too) 
http://www.fra.dot.gov/Elib/Document/16 [/b] 
As to the video recorder, I believe Union Pacific calls it a Track Image Recorder. It appears BNSF calls it "VideoTrax Locomotive Digital Video 
Recorder". 

See "Alliance / Guernsey Mechanical News, Second Quarter 2009". This seems to be a publication dedicated to BNSF. 
See bottom of page 7 with respect to "VideoTrax Locomotive Digital Video Recorder" with mention of Event recorder at link: 
http://www.newslink.com/pubs/ALMEC/ALMEC0905.pdf [/b] 
-Ted


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

If its a video camera in the cab, it normally is located near the center of the cab, facing outward. At present no sounds in the interior of the cab are recorded. The railroads want to start recording the interior cab, but the unions for good reasons won't allow it. The camera does pick up external sounds such as the horn, and bell.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Is anybody 'modeling' the cameras in their cabs yet? 

Dirk


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 17 Jul 2013 10:29 AM 
Is anybody 'modeling' the cameras in their cabs yet? 

Dirk Too modern for me.


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