# SP-CF Update?



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I remember hearing the Cab Forward was due out around Xmas, and axctually shipping on the Day before Christmas.  Is that still on schedule?  Did anyone get theirs yet?  I'm thinking not, cause someone would have posted a bunch of pictures!!!!


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

My money is on Alan.....


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles. Are we starting a pool to see who posts the 1st acutal Post-Release Cab Forward photo? Should we include the date as well?


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Barring anyone associate, connected or works directly with Accucraft....I say Thu. Jan. 10 for a photo


Any earlier then that person with the deep pockets can front the prize money!


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

And what time will this be posted? I'm shooting for the 12th, Saturday, 1700


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Thur. Jan. 10 @ 21:30 hours


----------



## Shaylover (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't know about you lot on that side of the pond, but Gordon Watson informed me the day before yesterday that my Cab-Forward #4274 was being loaded into a container as we spoke. 


So I'm looking forward to seeing mine in the first week of February.


To put my bid in, I'd say that someone will post the pix on Jan 13th at 0800 your time.


        Never drive faster than your Guardian Angel can fly.


                          73, John de VK2XGJ.


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah yes, the race is on... 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, it's winter (certainly feels cold for about 2/3 of US) but-


Hmm....what race?   The web site indicates:


*SP CAB FORWARD 4-8-8-2 LIVE STEAM* 
- DELIVERY WINTER 2007


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

The race is to see who to see "who posts the 1st acutal Post-Release Cab Forward photo". 

My guess-- January 23rd.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave


Try again.....


DH and Cabin Fever might result in photos sooner than that


 


So, it will probably come down to the time of day.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 01/04/2008 10:46 AM


Dave


Try again.....


DH and Cabin Fever might result in photos sooner than that


So, it will probably come down to the time of day.




 Only if the container arrives, and clears customs by then (CF & DH meets). Seems like when you really want an engine for a meet, it will show up a few days after... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif We'll see.... I would think someone on the west coast will post first, while the east is still in transit.


----------



## jmkling (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder if someone will pony up for overnight shipping....Hello FeEx, yep I want to ship this 100 pound box overnight....make sure the driver has a hand truck......


----------



## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Jon,


Are you waiting for one too? Or holding out for the next series of Ks?


----------



## jmkling (Jan 2, 2008)

Carl,


No stinking SG for me, too small for my likes /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif, but it sure is a nice looking engine.  Waiting on the K-36 live steam...../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jon


Finally getting a "ride on" steam engine.  Are you going to get permission from the housing authority to re-stake the fence around the yard.


 


Overnight for CF- deep pockets: like paying VAT in UK.


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

As i was told by accucraft last week when i made the payment for my CF they intend to ship starting on the 7th of this month. but that may or may not be true. All i know is thay have my money. and i want my loco by Cabin Fever./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

after my last post i checked my credit card online and accucraft charged to it today $6,150.00 we all know what that is for. (Did it ship today? I will have to call tomarrow)


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Inside scoop....


Two are in the gates and it will be neck to neck either to NY or VA possibility by Jan 10 w/ dinner time photos!   Place your bids.....


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

NHSteamer 

When I spoke to Ada at Accucraft today and coughed up my money, she said my CF would ship on Monday 07 January. She indicated that if they had your money in hand, your engine would be on the UPS truck. I expect mine to arrive on Thursday 10 January. I don't plan to post photos. I expect it to look like the prototype that Royce had at my last meet, except for having the AC-11 engine number. Plenty of photos of the prototype model have already graced this forum previously. The better photos will be from Charles at Cabin Fever with me and Alan R. doubleheading a PFE reefer block. We plan to have enough cars to split the train for triple heading if a third (or fourth) CF shows at CF.


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr Rivet 
thank you for the update, sounds like i should have mine by the 11th (6 days from accucraft to me) I will be bringing mine to Cabin Fever on Sunday. It sounds to me if the other CFs are there Sunday we are going to need a big train.


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr Rivet


Thank you for the update, sounds like i will have my CF for sunday at cabin fever. if you and Alan are there on sunday I think we will need a bigger train./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

As things develop, forget the "shayup" at Cabin fever, we are going to have a convoy of CF's at CF!


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft site no longer listing Cab Forward as sold out?


Now (Call- maybe some available- I guess Royce would know):


SP Cab Forward AC12 (Live Steam)


 


Prior inidicator read


SP Cab Forward AC12 (Live Steam)    *SOLD OUT*


*
*http://www.accucraft.com/products/AL97011-CABFRD.htm


----------



## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles, the Accucraft site also states that production of the CF is limited to 100 units, I thought that the limit was 50 originally ??


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft must have had sufficient additional requests for Cab Forwards to justify increasing the run to 100. They may have initially held back from doing 100 concerned that the demand was not there for a $7000 loco, a bit of an oddity, Cab Forward, sort of an ugly duckling loco you either loved or hated. And SP seems more a West Coast thing. 

I think I heard they actually built a few more than 50, a few extra requests. 

Isn't the Cab Forward the most expensive loco Accucraft has produced to date?


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Rumor has it that if they get advance orders for an additional 25 units they will do a second run. My understanding is that the first run was for 60. If they do an additional run, hopefully they will do a new number or two (beyond 4294 and 4274)..... 

So, any guesses on timing for a second run based on Accucraft's track record? 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan


Interesting situation given a second run could have some significant benefits:


Less produced, thus possible more valuable


Different new offering a plus


Then there are always the potential for functional improvements


The downsize will probably be the price increase given the wait for any production line time thus increase in labor, production/processing and material costs


Makes one thnk about the "wait and see" opportunity...


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

That's pretty imaginative and complex - something I don't remember Accucraft being known for, they tend to take a simpler approach.  Like just making the remaining 40 (finish out the typical 100 unit Limited Production run), the same loco, same loco numbers, etc.  And they are probably already making those 40 with assembly people who are warmed up (experienced with the model build), don't want to let them cool down.  


The molds are the basic fixed cost factor and those are already made.  If they just make the remaining 40 that reduces the % of fixed costs per unit; molds cost spread over 100 vs 60 = more profit per loco.  So they don't need to raise prices for an increase to the bottom line.  


But don't let me discourage your imaginations, ideas or hopes - things can always change. 


I just hope I get mine next week too./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Gang 

When I spoke to Ada at Accucraft on Friday afternoon she offered up some specific items: 

1] for NHSteamer - None of the CFs would ship until Monday 07 January because they were focused on unloading the container and getting stuff prepared for a Monday ship. So a UPS ground of 6 business days puts it in NH on Monday/Tuesday of Cabin Fever week. You, Ala, and I should be able to triple head. Charles promised to bring a proper SP caboose, and we should have at least 40 or so PFE reefers. 

2] Accucraft has established a "wait list" for a second run of CFs. The minimum production run for cost recovery reasons is 25 units. IF they get orders for 50 more, they would probably build them. Money is money, and they are not as AR as the people who ocommision models with Aster. I am sure Aster could have sold another 75 9Fs beyond the 260 produced. That is a separate issue. I don't think Accucraft [as a company] gives a rat's pitute if their locos become "collectable". 

3] MY personal understanding, subject to correction by ANYONE with better information: The current production run of CFs was approximately 63 units even though the original number was projected to be only 50. Just look at how many WHR [SAR] 16mm scale NGG16 Garrats have actually been produced, compared to Ian Pearse's original projected prodction of 90 units. 

The current MSRP for a LS CF is $6950. That price compares very favorably with the Aster Berk and GN S2 4-8-4 in KIT form. Given the fall of the USD in the world market, and other forces in the Chinese economy [wages, raw material, greed], I would expect the next run to be in the $7700 - $8100 price range. Remember, an Aster Big Boy factory assembeled in 1984 cost $8500 in 1984 USD. Please don't ask why I know this; ask my wife instead. My failure to trade a new VW Rabbit for the Big Boy caused much marital strife, and is a sore subject to this day. She still doesn't have a LS Big Boy. At $8000 the CF is stilll an incredible bargin, although admittedly beyond the reach of many. But that has always been the case and will remain that way. 

Charles, instead of seeing whether there are more Shays running at CF than DH [Bob Weltyks (sp?) wish], maybe we shouls see which venue has more CFs in operation. 

BTW, all the roof shingles are on the new building, courtesy of Jon K, Scott L, Mike M, and Lee S. Probably won't have the yard tracks in there until the Fall meet. 

Cheers 

Jim


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

ALL 
Regarding the previous post. Please forgive my lack of typing skill and inability to uze a spel chequer. It is Alan NOT Ala, and a few others too. 

Jim


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, 

With all that Shay and CF iron and reefers, will there be room for a few more humble locos to run? Sounds like I should avoid Sunday, but Rog's meet is Saturday.... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif


_Maybe I'll boil water at Rogers and just watch you guys tinkering (= trying to make the new CF steam) at York._


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Pete 

When Royce had the CF prototype at my meet for Alan R and me to "test drive", we didn't have to do much fiddling at all. We did try some experiments with trying to find the optimum valve gear position to get lots of running on minimum water consumption. We had no trouble with the firing. Cliff had already told us not to mess with the adjustment of steam to the two pairs of cylinders. On a new one out of the box, I presume that will represent the "fiddly" part of getting them in operation. 

Jim


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete and Jim, 

I understand from Cliff that the production unit he has put lots of hours on has been just as easy to run as the prototype was at Jim's meet. In fact the balancing valve between the front and rear engines was easy to adjust: if the rear (on a CF) engine was slipping while you had the bypass closed to gain water in the boiler, you just closed the balance valve a bit until the engine quit slipping. 

Soooo, I don't think anyone should stay away from Cabin Fever, especially since both Charles and Mike Moore will have their tracks there! Pete I look forward to seeing you there. 

Best regards, 

Alan 

PS I'm bringing SPC #13 to run narrow gauge too


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Just joking guys - but it did occur to me that 4 CFs = ~12 ft of track space! See you n York or at Rogers, if the wife lets me out for two whole days of trains. (Jealous too - wish I had my EBT Mikado....)


----------



## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 01/07/2008 9:59 AM


Just joking guys - but it did occur to me that 4 CFs = ~12 ft of track space! See you n York or at Rogers, if the wife lets me out for two whole days of trains. (Jealous too - wish I had my EBT Mikado....)



I think you will need a bit more length of track if you're really going to head-up 4 CFs.  Accucraft list the CF's length as 50" (1270mm).  4x50"=200" or 16.67 feet. 


Have a great time if you really get 4 headed up!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


PS:  We not only need a photo of the locos head-to-head, but the Conga Line of engineers as well.


----------



## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

*Alan, are you exited, or what?*


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

3 or 4 CF and 40 or so reefers....hmmm = Charles' video camera on the tail of the train watching the front chase it around a circle.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Kovacjr on 01/07/2008 6:36 PM
3 or 4 CF and 40 or so reefers....hmmm = Charles' video camera on the tail of the train watching the front chase it around a circle.



Jay


The CF challenge to DH will be to match the CF motive power!


3 or 4 CF= a lot more than 40 reefer pulling ability, so the true excitement will be at Dr. Rivet's meet.  CF will just be a warm up for some impressive motive power (Dan's track could host a bit more impressive show based on trackage).


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Carl,


No, very little excitement.  NOT


Best regards,


Alan


PS Who is this that appears so interested???


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Alan 

Surely you recognize the EXITED [see above] Carl Weaver, SA#138. IF we have more than 3 CFs, I suggest we split the reefer blocks and run two trains. I will bribe Mr. Moore with "whatever it takes" to get the photo op, just for Mr. Scott. I will put spare reefers in the van [30-35], so if Ryan brings his, along with Roy G [Mr I ain't got no stinkin' computer] and his batch, and Mike's, we have enough for two complete trains. I just hope we have enough gas for fuel. . Haven't mastered the emoticon thing yet. 

Cheers 
Jim


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 01/07/2008 9:20 PM
I will put spare reefers in the van [30-35], so if Ryan brings his, along with Roy G [Mr I ain't got no stinkin' computer] and his batch, and Mike's, we have enough for two complete trains. I just hope we have enough gas for fuel. . Haven't mastered the emoticon thing yet. 

Cheers 
Jim






Jim,


Have the reefers all ready to go, and a few suprises in store.


Here's the mockup of the WP PFE cars (have three to do):










Also got around to replacing the "AA" in the SP Caboose:










We'll have plenty of stock to pull behind the Cab Forward('s), but I'll bet the GS-4 GW will walk away with at least 40 of those cars (clean track of course).


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

i will be bringing my CF to CF but i can not get there untill Sunday. so i hope the other CF's will be there sunday as well.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Has anyone received confirmation of a CF shipment from Accucraft with tracking #s?


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

So, Dave does the query mean that one showed up at  your doorstep by mistake?


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Rose on 01/08/2008 8:33 AM

Has anyone received confirmation of a CF shipment from Accucraft with tracking #s?




Dave,

The UPS guy told me they had to special order a truck to get that Cabin to CF...oh wait, you were talking about Cab-Forwards /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif.  I think I'll be a couple-few days before anyone sees them.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 01/08/2008 8:41 AM
So, Dave does the query mean that one showed up at  your doorstep by mistake?


  Yes.... but that's strictly confidential. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan, 

I'm just trying to confirm that some may have actually shipped.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

David 
I talked to Claudia and Ada yesterday and they were shipping out both Jackson & Sharp coaches plus Cab Forwards yesterday. I have not received any tracking numbers yet but I think we would all like to see them shipping CF’s instead of taking time sending numbers out. I have just told my customers their CF's are on the way.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I just received UPS tracking numbers so I would think your dealer has also received his tracking, contact him and get your number so you can check every 10 minutes to see the progress. :>)


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

i also called and got my tracking number, it shipped yesterday and should be delevered here on the east coast on monday the 14th./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

That's great! Looking forward to seeing photos of Cab Forwards at Cabin Fever... Say that 10 times fast LOL. 

Hopfully the track can support all that weight. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif (kidding)  An idea on the weight of one of these engines?


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

UPS shows a shipping weight of 72 lbs


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, et al.

When I moved the Engine at the IE&W in the spring, it felt comparable to the weight of a Big Boy, around 35-45 lbs (full boiler) I'm guessing, for just the engine. Tender is another 10-15 lbs additional (again fully loaded). That's about the weight of the GS-4 for just the engine, not terribly bad.

Not to shabby for scrawny young man (if I say so myself /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif) to lift.  Should be good exercise for those getting one in preperation for chasing after it once those 60 car reefer bocks get rolling!


----------



## Jeff Williams (Jan 8, 2008)

I will pick up my Cab Forward tomorrow at the Train Shop in Santa Clara, CA.  If the weather cooperates, perhaps I can be the first to publish photos of the loco in operation.  This assumes, of course, that I can figure out how to publish photos on this website!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff, 

Go for it! I look forward to seeing them. 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jeff
I am looking  forward to the photos.  I will be lucky to even get mine unpacked the day it arrives [Thursday- WOW, only two more days].  After all, it's just another engine, right?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif

Wonder if Torrey K can covert it to coal firing.  I hear it's the latest rage in Ga 1 steam.  Oh, I forgot, it's NOT an AC-9.  Maybe Ryan can get two more GS-4s and kitbash an AC-9 for us.

Sorry folks,  too much time at work today.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif

Cheers

Jim


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 01/08/2008 7:07 PM
Oh, I forgot, it's NOT an AC-9.  Maybe Ryan can get two more GS-4s and kitbash an AC-9 for us.

Sorry folks,  too much time at work today.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif

Cheers

Jim




Jim, 

No don't go giving me ideas!  Let's see...take the boiler off of two GS's, dut the frames, pit a pin in the middle, then cut the boilers in half and soft solder/duct tape them back together.  Yeah, should work.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif  Just like the Tacoma Narrows Bridge....everything is copasetic and logical...in theory!


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Darn it, you guys! All this chatter about your CF's and I'm still waiting for my 4-4-0--it's going on three years now since I put down my deposit. I know who to blame,though. It's Alan! All of your visits with the Accucraft gang in CA surely included some arm-twisting and bribery on your part. So, when you unwrap your CF and the lead truck and first two sets of drivers are missing, they will be at my place under a cardboard mockup of my 4-4-0. Remember--I know where you live, Alan, and at this point the scale difference between the engines will not bother me. I'm just hoping to live long enough to play with my 4-4-0, that's all. 

Oh, and I promise not to drool on any of the CF's running at Diamondhead next week. 

Larry


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

on the tail of the train watching the front chase it around 

At least with a CF the conductor can shake hands with the engineer...


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Larry et al 

I synpathize with you on the long wait. Some of us are still waiting for a "certain Geen boiler jacket locomotive #346". In the meantime, my Cab Forward was delivered TODAY at 11:51AM EST. Guess I need to pick it up on the way home from work. 

Cheers 

Jim


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry, 

I sympathize with the 4-4-0, since I have a Lilly Belle sitting in an unopened box in anticipation of fall 2007 delivery of my green SPC #3. While I may exhibit signs of extreme enthusiasm on the CF, last February I was at Accucraft with Cliff and Randy Hees --- and the only subject was colors for the 4-4-0 and reviewing the samples that David Fletcher had sent. I need SPC #3 to go with #11 & #13 (see my signature below...) 

However, having been sidetracked (seduced?) by the AC12, I would appreciate minimum drool marks at Cabin Fever! 

Best regards, and stay warm! 

Alan


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Ok folks 

As of 1:38PM EST, I have posession of my AC-11 CF. Uunfortunately, I had to drop it back at home and go back to work. BOO! 

Jim


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Just arrived in the shop today for evaluation and R&D (name withheld until the owner sees/posts about it): 

I got a kick out of this one /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif








  

It's BIG...Side by side w/GS-4: 










Front 3/4 shot: 

















I'll take more when the evaluation is complete...also give a full synopsis of what has been done since it was seen at Diamondhead and the IE&W ry. For now, back to emptying the drool bucket.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Just wondering....manual?  Is that like in "Buddy L" days of push power?

Well, lost the prediction as to arrival.  So much for my cracked crystal ball!

Should have been a national holiday.  Seems the world is underside down; at my age I should be home and the only work would be to unpack an Accucraft box and my son should be working (such is the college life).

I doubt I'll be in the ol lounge chair this evening.


----------



## WeltyksWhistles (Jan 3, 2008)

/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gifWell,My UPS Man was Not happy with Me today when He had 3 Big box's from Accurcraft to Delver to Me Today.The shipping Box's are app the same size as the GS-4 Shipping Box's.Well I Have told all that I would not open them till I came back From Diamondhead/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/angry.gif,to install the 4 Chime whistles./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gifThis Locomotive is BIG and HEAVY /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif
ITS GETTING CLOSE NOW


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

He had 3 Big box's 


Engine in one, tender in one and what...the boiler in another?


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 

Are you getting sick of yourself?? 


Posted by WeltyksWhistles:

/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gifLater Bob/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif


(Kidding of course!)  I'll miss talking with you at Diamondhead this year.  Hopefully I can come down again soon.

Actually, the carrier for the engine is what's so @#$% heavy.  The engine uses the photo etched sheet metal like the K-28, which gives wonderful amounts of detail.  Best of all, NO MORE SHINY PAINT!  It has a nice matte finish on it.  With the lighter sheet metal, the engine (dry) weighs about the same as the GS-4 (locomotive only)  the difference in thinner sheet metal equals them out.  It's still built like a tank though!  Granted this is a Rolls-Royce style tank where the GS-4 is more of a Koenigsegg Sports tank.  

Needless to say, the carrier feels heavier then the engine, which is a good thing, because I won't be using it!

Now, for a quick review:

-The axle pump has been revised to proper ss ball valves, like the retrofit that I do to the GS-4's.
-Axle pump eccentric is now made fron Stainless steel, should reduce the wear factor by quite a bit
**The locomotive is shipped with the Pilot and Trailing trucks taken off and stowed in the tender box*, in a box.  A very smart move on Accucraft's part because they could have been susceptible to shipping damage.   The only problem with this is that they failed to provide some instructions on how to fit them!  If anyone would like photos Alan sent me of the truck mounting points on the prototype, your welcome to them.  Same goes for written instructions.  PM or contact me off list (email). 
- The detail is stunning!  Of course this will make it a bear to take apart if need be, but give me a month or two to figure that one out and I'll make some diagrams.  Did I mention that it's stunning??
-There is a saftety in the cab, while some may like this I particulary don't for the issue of it blowing off in the cab and possibly on your hand.  Kudos to Cliff / Accucraft for including a blanking plug to allow me to eliminate the cab safety.
-The Water piping is very nice, smaller OD tubing (still 5/16 ID) making for a clean look and allowing the bluky nuts to be threaded on with relative ease.  
-The cab comes off with 7 screws.  4 on the floor straddling the cab doors, facing upwards if you are looking inside the cab and three on the back wall of the cab holding on to some boiler detail parts.  
-There is a Fill Plug/steam dome underneath, you guessed it, the steam dome!  A very nice touch that allows access to the middle of the boiler if needed.  
-Operating pressure is stated at 65psi, which is the proper amount for the engine to run on, the boiler is rated for 150lbs MAX.


*Only 3 Issues I have found so far*
1: The combination levers, while a step up from the OEM GS-4 ones, are still not correct.  They allow for a little notching up, but a very low cutoff ratio (The GS-4;s that are retrofitted have about 85%, which is almost neutral when fully notched up)  

2: There is detail piping on the left side of the engine (facing the cab, which would be the engineer's side on a CF) that is fouling the rear engine's radius rod from going into full gear in forward.  the other three radii rods are going into gear just fine, except the lefr rear one.  I'll have to look at correcting this so that the maximum amount of power c an be taken frim the rear engine.  ** the rear engine is the one closest to the tender**

3:  This is more of a personal quirk for me.  The lubricator is a Pass-through type, sending oil through the two superheaters on the engine, which in my book, is bad juju.  I would have rather seen a seperate Dead-leg style lubricator installed, one for each engine, but that's what after market modifications are for!  Stay tuned for developments on this....


In all, in the short time that I have examined it today, I can presumptiously say that this could redeem the 1:32 Mainline steam market for Accucraft.  The modifications that Alan, Royce, Charles and I suggested to Cliff were (for the most part) implemented on the final run of the engine.  I'm very pleased.


That's all for now...


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan
I am very impressed with the engine.  Overall the visual and physical structure is worth more than the price.  The running charactertistics are yet TBD.
I'll add a few things to the short list:
[*]IMHO I do not like the hinge roof given where it comes to rest once open: on the grill work [*]The bypass line in the tender should be extend back towards the handpump so you can tell when the bypass is engaged [*]I dislike the huge bulky and difficult connectors for the lines [*]The dry pipe is not up at the top of the steam dome; therefore it will suck water/wet steam [*]The bypass needs to be relocated outside the cab [*]The crowded cab makes it very difficult to read the sight glass and cab safety is out (but I do like the moving roof vent just in case it was to go off) [*]The lube tube should have been made outside the cab as deadleg replacing one of the air pump tanks under the cab with fill extension [/list] As stated much more to discover and much enjoyment in doing so!


----------



## Jeff Williams (Jan 8, 2008)

I also picked up my CF today. It's a thing of beauty, and wonderfully complex, for sure, but roses do have their thorns. For those of you still waiting for yours, be forwarned - "some assembly required". The pilot and trailing trucks are packed with the tender, not mounted to the locomotive. I spent an hour looking for my 3mm x 0.5 mm tap to clean out the threads on the trailing truck mounting hole so by the time I got the trucks mounted, it was too dark to fire it up this afternoon, It's not clear to me if the trailing truck is installed correctly yet, as there appears to be insufficient vertical play. I'm still boggled/annoyed by Accucraft's penchant for cutting the narrowest and shallowest possible slot in their shoulder screws, requiring much care and a filed-down screwdriver to install. 

I pushed the loco through some switches (#8s) to see how it tracked and discovered a loose part that could have led to a major disaster, had I been running the loco, specifically, one of the brake shoes was loose and had dropped down far enough to snag in a switch. I suggest you check yours and perhaps even glue them into place, rather than rely on the single attaching screw that might loosen during operation. 

Parts that had come off the loco in shipping were one glad hand, one lens on a running light and one of the number boards on the front of the cab, so check your packing materials carefully before discarding. These things are not atypical of of other locos I've purchased from Accucraft, however - it just takes a little while to get all of the pieces put on the loco in the right place. The blowdown mufflers on either side of the cab will be vulnerable to breakage when you roll the loco on its side to install the pilot and trailing trucks the first time so be careful with your padding. 

The cab roof doesn't really sit right, so will take a bit of fitting. The tender water tank cover seems more likely to fall into the tender than not, so will also take some care while operating or else end up as a major annnoyance. Others have mentioned the challenges with the three connections between the tender and loco - this will also take some time to sort out. 

A nice feature is the dual pressure gauges, so the one is visible from either side of the loco. Accucraft has also made the pilot strong enough to be a pickup point, unlike all previous locos. Cliff picks the loco up with a hand under the pilot and another under the smokebox - this seemed to work OK for me as well. 

Hopefully the weather will cooperate with a first run tomorrow - of course, this is coming from a California resident and native, so my definition of weather suitable for running is probably laughable for those of you in Canada, Minnesota and New England!


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jeff Williams on 01/09/2008 7:06 PM
I also picked up my CF today. It's a thing of beauty, and wonderfully complex, for sure, but roses do have their thorns. For those of you still waiting for yours, be forwarned - "some assembly required". The pilot and trailing trucks are packed with the tender, not mounted to the locomotive. I spent an hour looking for my 3mm x 0.5 mm tap to clean out the threads on the trailing truck mounting hole so by the time I got the trucks mounted, it was too dark to fire it up this afternoon, It's not clear to me if the trailing truck is installed correctly yet, as there appears to be insufficient vertical play. I'm still boggled/annoyed by Accucraft's penchant for cutting the narrowest and shallowest possible slot in their shoulder screws, requiring much care and a filed-down screwdriver to install.

Jeff,

Below is a photo that Alan took at pf the prototype at Jim Stapleton's in the spring.  It shows the rear truck having the shorter shoulder screw as the pivot screw (closest towards the front of the engine)  and the longer screw being assembled in the following order:
Screw thru the bottom (facing track), washer on the top half of the truck (facing engine) and then the spring.  











There is no need for the trailing truck to have a lot of vertical play, but doing it this way I found ~10mm of play, which is plenty for a non load bearing truck.  I plan to send a word document to Cliff in the morning on a how to install the pilot trucks, the short and sweet version.  

Having worked on my fair share of GS-4's, I find the AC-12's blowdown spreaders to be robust and very hard to break or bend, unless one rolls the engine on it's side with out first lifting it to clear any snagging parts.  In contrast, these blowdown spreaders are far higher up then the Aster GS-4 ones, of which I'm suprised mine clears switch points and throws!  Guess they are far enough inboard of the rail head to clear.  Same goes for the Brake shoes, they are the same design as the ones on the Accu. GS-4, and even when they come loose, they don't hold such a load bearing to the frame that the whole engine will go careening to the ground (god forbid!).  Instead of a drop of glue, I'd suggest (again from expierence working on GS-4's, up to 10 now, exculding my own), a dab of blue LOCTITE on the threads of the screw to keep it snugly in place.  Of course, there are always two ways to skin a cat.    

Hope this helps you get it sorted out.


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

ALL 

Most everything has been covered in the earlier posts. I did call Ryan while unpacking my AC-11[S/N #016] to ask wher the tender hand pump cover plate was packed. "Look in the tender water tank.". Not visible. Tipped the tender side to side, up-ended it, rolled it over upside down. No rattles, nothing. At RB's suggestion I removed the two 2mm hex bolts on the front lip next to the gas valve and removed the cover over the gas tank. The hatch was wedged between the side of the tender tank and the mounting brackets for the fuel tank. So, if you think your tender hatch is missing, don't give up hope, it is probably hiding somewhere inside the tender, sight unseen. 

Cheers 
Jim


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the reports guys. Congrats Ryan getting the first photo in (if there is a race you guys always seem to win it... LOL) Hopfully she will perform up to everyones expectations on the rails.


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Rose on 01/09/2008 8:45 PM
Thanks for the reports guys. Congrats Ryan getting the first photo in (if there is a race you guys always seem to win it... LOL) Hopfully she will perform up to everyones expectations on the rails.


Dave,

Race, what race??  Actually Dr. Rivet had his in possession before this one arrived for R&D (no, not Ryan and Dad, Research and development!)

You see, your gonna be missing out on this at Cabin Fever....Come on Friday, maybe someone will put something good up on the auction block .


----------



## Shaylover (Jan 2, 2008)

You blokes are making me very jealous!   
From what Gordon Watson has informed me, my AC-11 is on the way,   she might even be in-country by now.  
Will have to wait for Customs to get their sticky fingers all over her nice paint work I suppose. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif 
Ahh well, I hope that you find all of the problems and their fixes for me so that I can apply tham as soon as she arrives.  I'm planning on the first week of February to drive down to GW's and pick her up.
She will have company, I have the same loco in H0 so that will be interesting to see the size difference.  


              Never drive faster than your Guardian Angel can fly.
                         73, John de VK2XGJ.


----------



## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls. It is official, we have the first picture posted of the CF from DH. 

Terry Smelser, 0206, 1-15-08 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/11/postid/5693/view/topic/Default.aspx

Congratulations Terry, and thank you Tom for posting!!!


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Based on the two big steamup events this weekend the forum will be filled(maybe to point of sensory overload) with photos and video.  Anyone have a spare number boards, numbers of the cab count make a bit of pocket change this weekend re-mumbering the engines.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

A few things to check on prior to running cab forward (as with all new engines check and prevent is better than wear and break down):
There is detail piping on the left side of the engine (facing the cab, which would be the engineer's side on a CF) that is fouling the rear engine's radius rod from going into full gear in forward.  
Rubbing of pipes/tubing on axles
Brakes rigging
Truck mounts
Crosshead screws
Brake rigging around the axle pump
Smokebox door adjustment
Recommend cleaning the gas tank prior to firing (as per K. O'Connor)
Extend the bypass line
Lube moving parts


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello,
Today when I got home from a business trip and finally got to unpack my CF  After reading this thread when I was away I knew that the trucks needed to be installed upon my return, but while unpacking the loco and tender I found no mounting hardware for the trailing truck (single axle) /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif it seems that I did not get it (I riped apart *every inch* of tender packing). Did anyone else have this problem or find the hardware in a strange place? Also Charles or Ryan do you have any spare hardware that i could buy or borrow while I wait to settle this w/Accucraft when Cliff returns from Diamondhead (Murphy's law that when I get home to open it everyone is away already) from you on Sunday at Cabin Fever?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif 

Thanks in advance for your help and look forward to seeing you on Sunday.


----------



## pgregores (Jan 2, 2008)

I got my cf tuesday. It has not been steamed yet, but I did try it with air pressure. I hope to run it at cabin fever with some help from you experts if possible. thanks pete


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
We do have some parts but not sure if the dimensions will match up but worth a try.  Maybe we could find a machinist to make one(solid bolt) at Cabin Fever.  Many of the representative are doing projects to show off their machines and the program ability to make items.


----------



## NHSTEAMER (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles,

Thanks SO much for not only responding quickly but your help. It gives me hope of running this weekend! I know you can understand how frustrating this can be. Thank you and see you early Sunday morning. BTW-What's the earliest they will let me in?


----------



## Shaylover (Jan 2, 2008)

She's arrived! 
Gordon Watson has just rang ro advise me that my AC-11 has arrived at his workshop. 
And, as the Actress said the the Bishop, "Gee it's big isn't it?" was his first reaction after unpacking her. 
So I'll be taking a long drive down possibly next Tuesday to pick her up along with her little friend the S-12. 
But where in Sam Hill am I going to stow her when I get her home? 

73, John de VK2XGJ


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Among all of us I'm sure we can find enough to get you going, either with a new part arranged through Charles' method, or something borrowed. 

Best regards, 

Alan


----------



## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

See the Cabin Fever Photos thread for a picture of 3 (of 4...other was out of the picture) cab forwards running simultaneously today.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/11/postid/6729/view/topic/Default.aspx


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Cabin Fever Photo Album for Saturday (copy and paste in to the URL titlle bar)
http://picasaweb.google.com/cebednarik/CabinFever


----------



## insanerocketkid (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is my crude video from Today (Saturday) 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LVSLcRabbJw 

Mike


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

To finish up the day a few Sunday photos of the action prior to packing up for the trip home (copy and paste link into URL title bar):
http://picasaweb.google.com/cebednarik/CabinFeverSunday

Scranton PA at the Electric Trolley Museum in the complex with Steamtown USA.

http://www.ectma.org/museum.html

President Day weekend in Feburary


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

General observations of QC and running capabilities:
Some base line observations of the CF runs:

1- design of the pilot.trailing trucks resulted in a problem already
2- Design of lube/steam oil results in the rear end getting the majority of steam oil-high usage of steam oil in a short period of time.
3- Burner jet clogging due to material in the housing of the jet "T" manifold
4- Tracking problem on one unit due to suspension problems
5- Great usage of water and fuel: it is a beast.

One CF did get an hour run at moderate speed with about 30 cars (forgot the actual count).

1- need to change the bolt (but not easy)
2- Lube tube change of line to a pass through
3- Clean, clean and clean prior to running plus disconnect fuel line to prevent liquid gas flow
4- Check suspension on drivers
5- Very complex, but combination levers would help greatly


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Short term running recommendations:
#1 Clean jets and t eemanifold along with wash of fuel tank (vinegar, then acetone) Take off cab much easier to maintenance.
#2  Disconnect gas hose and bleed the line prior to firing
#3  Restrict the rear engine allowing more oil/steam to front (near smokebox) during clearing of cylinders to ensure steam oil gets that that engine.  In comparsion (as one can tell by amount of water/oil out of the stack) the rear engine is getting the majority of the oil on a normal setup
#4 You can light the burners under the smokebox but you still have to open the big door and utilize a mirror to see the burner flames
#5  Check underside for nuts, bolts, screws, brake rigging ,etc and in particular front and rear trucks.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Details for cleaning out the gas system. I had many clogged jet issues on my K-28, but after doing the below all issues stopped. 


Cleaning out a butane tank per Kevin O’Connor 

1.	Remove tank from the loco. 

2.	Next remove all the plumbing including the Ronson type fill valve and the gas flow control valve. 

3.	Blow it out good with clean compressed air. 

4.	Fill it with white vinegar, wait an hour, drain it by shaking hard, and do it all over again two more times (an hour in between). 

5.	Flush it with clean water and shake the heck out of it until there is no sign of any black specks in the drained water. 

6.	Blow it out with air. 

7.	Fill it with acetone, shake, drain, more acetone, shake, drain, blow out with air. At this point the acetone will have removed any trace of water, and will have degreased the inside of the tank. 

8.	Reassemble the tank's components using Permatex high temperature thread sealant on the male only threads of the Ronson valve, and 3 in 1 oil on the gas control valve's threads and "O" ring. 

9.	Fill the tank with butane, invert the tank and blow it all out as liquid through the gas control valve (do this part outside) 

10.	Re-install the tank assembly, fill up the tank with butane, wait till the now cold fuel tank reaches room temperature, and then fire up.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Note: instead of acetone I used brake cleaner with good results.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By insanerocketkid on 01/19/2008 10:29 PM
Here is my crude video from Today (Saturday) 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LVSLcRabbJw 

Mike


Here's another boring video of a cab forward with lots of reefers (Sunday am.)

www.youtube.com/watch


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, 

Nice.... I love how the cab forward makes pulling that many reefers look easy.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Next remove all the plumbing including the Ronson type fill valve... 
Where can I obtain one of those little spanners?


----------



## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight, Norm Saley markets a gas filler valve removal tool.


----------



## Shaylover (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I've arrived home with the AC-12.  Yes an AC-12, after ordering an AC-11 and watching the DVD "Last Cab-Forward over Donner Pass"   every second day for the last two weeks, an AC-12./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif    
But what a beautiful AC-12 she is!  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif

A question for all those lucky blokes who have run their AC-12's,  where is the die block in the expansion link when running forward?  In the upper or lower quadrant?

The reason I ask is that I suspect that Accucraft have the die block in the upper quadrand when moving forward.   
To be correct it should be in the lower quadrant.   I'll explain more later.  She's is calling me.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif



                                    Never drive faster than your Guadian Angel can fly.
                                                        73, John de VK2XGJ.


----------



## David Rose (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rodblakeman on 01/24/2008 2:49 PM
Dwight, Norm Saley markets a gas filler valve removal tool.


  Dwight - Royce was nice enough to give me one. It's simply a flat head screw driver with the center slotted out (dremel or nibbler).


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

It's simply a flat head screw driver with the center slotted out (dremel or nibbler).
Sounds easiy enough to make. Thanks David (and you too Rod).


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Shaylover on 01/24/2008 2:49 PM

A question for all those lucky blokes who have run their AC-12's,  where is the die block in the expansion link when running forward?  In the upper or lower quadrant?

The reason I ask is that I suspect that Accucraft have the die block in the upper quadrand when moving forward.   



John,

The radius rod and (non existant) die block run in the upper portion of the quadrant.  One of these days they'll get ir right!


----------



## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

When Kevin O"Connor explained the tank cleaning process to me at Diamondhead last week, he had one additional thing to do during Step 9.
_Blow the Butane through a clean white handkerchief to see if there are any black specs. If there are, go back to Step 1 and repeat the process._


----------



## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

ALL 

Now that my wife Jo Anne has seen the video clips, especially Pete Thornton's, she requested [demanded] that I post the following: 
Let it be known that the SP AC-11 Cab Forward is MY engine, not Jim's [aka Dr Rivet], and that he operates MY engine because I 
would rather watch it pulling a train than run it myself. 

That said, thanks for the nice video and stills. 

Cheers 

Jim


----------



## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, 

Thanks for the ownership clarification. I love it!! 

Best regards, 

Alan 

PS Pete, that was a great video, thanks for posting


----------



## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, I understand fully. I was muttering today about the once again postponed 4-4-0 delivery (the engine was supposed to be HER birthday present two years ago), and her comment was: "you really want that engine, don't you!" Isn't it included in community property? 

Larry


----------

