# Three-foot gauge prototype in 1:29 scale?



## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

Hi Folks

While pondering how to accommodate my desire to model the East Broad Top alongside my New Zealand Railways 9mm:ft modelling (that's 3ft-6inch gauge scaled to run on O-gauge track), just for a lark I calculated what scale you get when O-gauge track is used to represent 3ft-gauge prototype....1:29. I'm kicking myself for not spotting this before: because this is an established garden-railway scale, there are all kinds of accessories that can be obtained, such as figures, buildings, that kind of thing, which makes modelling life a bit easier.

My question for you all is, do you know of anyone out there who has done or is doing 3ft gauge using O-gauge (1-1/4") track? This scale and gauge combination strikes me as being a good indoor accompaniment to outdoor 1-3/4" standard-gauge.

Regards
Paul Woods
Whangarei, New Zealand.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul,
I havent done it for 3-foot gauge, but I have for 2-foot gauge:

29n2 scale webpage:
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/Scottychaos/29n2/










I have never heard of anyone modeling standard gauge and 3-foot gauge together, both in 1/29 scale..you could be the pioneer!  
There arent any existing models that will easily fit 3-foot prototypes in 1/29 scale..it will require a lot of scratchbuilding or heavy kitbashing, like I have done with 29n2..but thats part of the fun! 

What I did with that 29n2 scale Maine forney could just as easily be done in 3-foot gauge rather than 2-foot gauge..the scale would be the same either way, 1/29 scale..
you could just build it to a different gauge, 29n3 rather than 29n2...not sure about EBT prototypes though.

I still haven't done any 29n2 scale modeling outdoors in the garden railroad, but I intend to.

Scot


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting thoughts.



> .not sure about EBT prototypes though.


Well, as most EBT engines today are 2-8-2s, you just need to find an O-scale 2-8-2 that's approximately equivalent. Drivers were 48" so you need to find 1.655" drivers, or a model of a loco in 1/48th (O scale) with 79.44" drivers - 80" would work.

I know of at least one model of an EBT Mike made from the Aristocraft 4-6-2 with an extra axle.


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

*29n3 it is!*

Hi Scot

That 2-foot loco is a thing of beauty, for sure. Are you running it on accurate 21mm gauge or using the 'next closest' commercially available gauge, be it On3 or S?

The scratchbuilding challenge is what attracts me to 29n3....there's not a lot of stuff available for my native NZ railways in 9mm:foot either, and some of what's around, I make it anyway. I wouldn't have even contemplated 29n3 if I didn't already have the skills to scratchbuild everything.

Lately, I've been using Shapeways' black-strong-flexible to make steam loco driving wheel centres in 9mm:ft and O-scale, works fine so 1:29 scale will probably work even better - the larger the scale, the fewer the issues with minimum thickness. It's a lot cheaper AND faster than traditional short-run methods. The tyres are the only tricky part - I spent good $$ on a piece of free-machining-grade stainless roundbar, only to find that it is still not that easy to machine, so more $$ just spent on a lump of 2" f-m mild steel roundbar while the stainless is relegated to being a doorstop....the hard part has been cutting into the end of the bar to make a ring without hogging out the entire centre to waste!

Regards
Paul


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm actually kind of confused as to why people try to adapt a particular scale to a track gauge. In reality, track is a heck of a lot easier to make than it is to scratch or bash a model to fit it.

Interestingly enough, I've always considered track to be a model, too, but it's very, very rare that anyone makes their own track. I think it's much easier to build a turnout than a steam locomotive!

Robert


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

Hi Robert

I quite agree with your sentiments; it has been my experience that it is of most benefit to pick a commonplace scale, which has all the 'peripheral' equipment available - I'm talking figures, buildings, vehicles - and build the track to suit the scale rather than developing a screwy scale to fit a particular track gauge. Many years ago in NZ, we started modelling our 42"-gauge railways using HO-gauge track - okay, the scale is 1:64 which is not totally lost in the wilderness but it is still rare enough to make procuring suitable vehicles and whatnot challenging to say the least.

My 29n3 suggestion is perhaps unusual because in my case it happens to tick both boxes. I am already building 1:34 scale track for my NZ 42"-gauge railway modelling, which happens to be 31.5mm gauge, with ties 6mm wide and 63mm long. When you do the math for 29n3, the gauge is almost exactly 31.5mm, and a prototype 8-inch wide x 6-foot long tie scales to 7mm wide x 63mm long, close enough that it would be difficult to spot the difference.

Regards
Paul


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> The scratchbuilding challenge is what attracts me to 29n3.


I was about to offer you some more suggestions for EBT rolling stock so you wouldn't have to make it all - such as using O-scale 3-bay hoppers to represent the NG EBT hoppers. But if you are making your own drivers, then I'll shut up.

Incidentally, there's a lot of interest in driving wheels over in the U.S. Few have the 3D CAD and the machine shop to make them. I assume your wheel centers could be scaled up to 1:20.3 and printed ? Do you have the drawings of the EBT drivers?


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

*EBT driver plans?*

Hi Pete

Well, I have some plans from RMC and Model Railroader of EBT #11, hopper cars, steel boxcars and caboose, and I've found some low-res scans of #'s 12 and 14/15. The EBT website doesn't have any plans available to buy at the moment, unfortunately, so it could be worse but I could always use some more plans. However, I'm a CAD draughtsman by profession so working off poor plans with the help of photos is not a problem, just time consuming - luckily there is no shortage of photos!

I kind of have plans of the Vulcan trucks from the RMC boxcar article which shows them at 1/87 scale so I can probably do an OK job of them. I want to build no's 16/17/18 but have yet to find any plans on them.

I'm amazed that no-one is churning out drivers using 3D printing. I've been doing them in larger scales, 1:34, 1:48, for quite a while....it is fast and ridiculously cheap. All the driver centres I have done, which are 30mm or so in diameter, cost less than US$3 each and they just press into the tyres, no machining - and no wobble either.

To answer your question, yes, very easy to up-scale. In fact, it's just a matter of a couple of clicks and output the surface mesh file in the new scale and you're good to go. I can even alter the axle-hole to suit a user's requirements.

It's only scaling DOWN that can cause problems, when areas of a part might go under the minimum allowable thickness, but that's usually not too hard to fix either, it just takes a bit of time to re-draw the offending area.

The biggest problem remains getting suitable tyres, although I am slowly mastering the art of making my own when I cannot locate a commercial tyre. I note that for 1:20.3 scale, there are 30mm, 32.5mm, 60mm diameter tyres available from Slaters Plastikard in the UK which might do the job - you won't find them listed, but all you have to do is ask David White nicely and he will happily sell them to you. I have sent an enquiry to Slaters, so no-one else need bother them. All I need to make the centres then is an exact measurement of the tyres' inside diameters....and the plans, of course.

Regards
Paul


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I have a friend who at one point did some 1:29n3. Static models mostly (I don't think he got around to building the loco). BTW, the Bachmann 20' cars scale out rather well for 3' narrow gauge prototypes when measured in 1:29. You'd need only regauge or replace the trucks. Bachmann makes a flat, gon, box car, and reefer as "20-foot" models. The cars themselves have no prototype--they're purely freelance, designed on a piece of paper then put into production. 

Later,

K


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

*Number 16's driving wheel detail wrong?*

Pete, where does that drawing of #16's wheel come from? It shows the spoke lined up with the crankpin boss, while I have in front of me a photo quite clearly showing that the crankpin of that trailing driver lies between spokes, plus there should be 12 spokes i.e. they are directly opposite one another, whereas the drawing only shows 11 spokes, or at least, an odd number of spokes, 'cos they don't line up across the wheel.

Regards
Paul


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

*link to wheel photo*

http://www.totalracing.com/ebt/large/PA110007.JPG

because I haven't figured out how to post photos to this forum yet


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## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Hi Paul!

In the quick reply tool bar it's the 2nd button from the right:










To upload a pic instead: Click Reply, scroll down to "Additional Options", click "Manage Attachments", upload your pic, then close the upload window.

Click the paper clip in the tool bar to attach the pic:









Now I just have to figure out how to make it bigger.


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

Beddhist said:


> Hi Paul!
> 
> View attachment 28826
> 
> ...


Hi Peter!

Oh wow, that track looks awesome! I will give you a call in the near future, there is something I need to discuss with you concerning those sleepers and making it bigger.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

woodsworks said:


> Pete, where does that drawing of #16's wheel come from? It shows the spoke lined up with the crankpin boss, while I have in front of me a photo quite clearly showing that the crankpin of that trailing driver lies between spokes, plus there should be 12 spokes i.e. they are directly opposite one another, whereas the drawing only shows 11 spokes, or at least, an odd number of spokes, 'cos they don't line up across the wheel.
> 
> Regards
> Paul


Paul,
I have all sorts of stuff lying around my computer. Kevin also has drawings and CAD files (I think) of the drivers. I sent you a PM.

The attached file claims to be #14's driver. It's quite hi-res, so keep clicking it until it doesn't grow any bigger!


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

Hi Pete

Thank you very kindly for that. I have sent you an e-mail, although I'm wondering if the address you gave might have a spelling mistake? Should there be an 'n' just before the @? 

Regards
Paul


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Should there be an 'n' just before the @?


Paul - as you now know, the answer is no! When I got an email address, you were only allowed 8 characters.


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## BrianTFowler (Sep 20, 2012)

I have actually been toying with this idea myself. Only I am working on 1/32n3, while trying to find things to borrow from O gauge. Other than rail and a few pieces of rolling stock I haven't found much. I have a lot of great data in scans, AutoCAD, and Solidworks. Specifically for the hopper trucks, there just isn't anything from O gauge to use. I do have the 3D cadd model of them, if you have a way to make them?!?

I am close to having the passenger cars (published years ago in the MasterClass archives) resized to be cut on a laser cutter. We should chat!!
The model railroad I am planning had the PRR electrification running all the way to Pittsburgh, including the Mt. Union junction. Can't wait to have a P5a running next to one of the EBT's Mikes.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)




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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

To go larger, once you have a pic added as an attachment and before you post open each pic and copy image location and paste that into your icon pop up box's top line.
Be sure to place cursor before adding each pic ...








Now I can 'submit reply'


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## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Thanks for the tip. If I understand it correctly, I attach the pic, click on it to show full-size, right-click to get the url, close it, then use the former procedure to link to it. Pfew!

Regards,
Peter.


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

Hi Folks

After a hiatus due to health problems, I am pleased to report that I am once again progressing my 1/29 EBT project. I decided that I needed to be smarter about how I build my benchwork, by making it portable, and also sort of modular. So, I designed a super-lightweight framing system and here is the first unit sitting more-or-less where it will end up - however, it will be lowered, replacing the shelf it is shown sitting on. It is designed around a 5ft radius track curve with transitions at the ends










End plates are 1/2" plywood and the rest is 1/8" plywood stiffened with 3/8" square pine and glued together with little triangular brackets - there is not one nail or screw in it, and the bare frame weighs 3.2pounds. The curved board on the layout section is 5ft radius.

Here is a diagram to explain how the layout sections are designed to fit together - one shape can be used to make curves or tangents:










The sizes in the diagram are not what I have settled on in the end but it serves to convey the general idea.

I have some fairly major back problems and I need to be able to work on the layout at a convenient height, so bringing it down to the workbench is the best solution. My power system is RC + batteries, no track wiring or joints to worry about.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

East Broad Top said:


> The cars themselves have no prototype--they're purely freelance, designed on a piece of paper then put into production.
> 
> Later,
> 
> K


 Like pretty much the entire narrow gauge roster of the D&RGW!

LOL!

Robert


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Paul. Looks good. We haven't made much progress on the Slaters rims yet - I have to call them soon to see what's up.


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

Hi Pete!

Yep, ya gotta keep chipping away at it....the old saying goes "Good things take time", but leaves out that it also requires sheer bl**dy-minded persistence ;-)


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