# Alarm at crossings?



## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Something I recently noticed at an increasing number of road crossings in my area. About ten feet from the control box, a pipe comes out of ground about 8-10 feet high. At the top are two speakers about 10in diameter facing opposite directions and a blue strobe light on top. I haven't had a chance to check which road these were on. We've got U.P., BNSF and Ft Worth Western interwoven all over the place.

Any ideas what these are for?

Thanks.


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Some systems are experimenting with "fixed" audible warning systems on crossings in areas where there are "whistle" (more correctly: Horn) bans on railroad movements. This puts a horn type device at the crossing that sounds as the train approaches, meaning that the locomotive carried whistle isn't blowing for the 1/4 mile before the crossing, presumably in people's backyards, but there's still a loud noise at the crossing (the traditional crossing bell has ALWAYS been for the benefit of pedestrians...not vehicles.) 

That might be it ... and it might be something else; there are often gas pipes, etc buried along railroad lines that also have various alarms.... hard to say for sure. Got a photo of one? 

Matthew (OV)


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

http://www.bytrain.org/Safety/technology/waysidehorn.html


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

http://www.railroadcontrols.com/ahs/mundeleinresearch.html 
http://www.roseville.ca.us/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=2146 
http://www.fra.dot.gov/downloads/Research/ord9804.pdf


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

http://www.ctre.iastate.edu/pubs/Tech_News/2005/oct-dec/train-horn.jpg 

http://www.apwa.net/Images/Publications/Reporter/3-30-07%20012%20circle.JPG 

http://azdailysun.com/content/articles/2008/08/17/news/20080817_front_179583.jpg 

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrwrecks/obayloco113explosion09-09-1891-3.jpg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Interesting reading! Perhaps Phoenix can enter a new market? Imagine sitting at a grade crossing, with a K-37 whistle blowing while three SD-70s rumble towards you. Ahhhhhh........ 

Later, 

K


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 05/31/2009 12:21 AM
Interesting reading! Perhaps Phoenix can enter a new market? Imagine sitting at a grade crossing, with a K-37 whistle blowing while three SD-70s rumble towards you. Ahhhhhh........ 

Later, 

K


Unfortunately, it will be the other way around. I'll be sitting there watching a preserved operating steam locomotive pass by on an excursion and hear overmodulated and distorted sounds of silly Diesel horns coming from the grade crossing warning speakers. BLEAUH!









Imagine your favourite nostalgic railroad song and substitute all the references to the steam whistle with "Grade Crossing Warning Sound"!

"Oh hear that lonesome Grade Crossing Warning Sound blow!"

"And that Grade Crossing Warning Sound broke into a scream!"

"That lure of the Grade Crossing Warning Sound in the distance."


Somehow I don't think that is quite as a "romantic" notion as the real words to the songs.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Nobody caught the last one, I see. 

Next locomotive.......


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

No, that one looks like what I got when I tried my hand at kit bashing.

The one I didn't get is the 3rd to the last one you listed. I get a "page not found".


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Hmmm. 
Copied the URL from an open page on the browser. 

Google "wayside warnings"


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, it won't be a train sound at all coming from the speakers. "In the future" what we'll hear is a pleasant chime (at 110 DB) followed by Bill Kurtis' voice saying: 

* "¡ADVERTENCIA! El tren se está acercando. Pare por favor detrás de la puerta. Para oír este mensaje en inglés, suene su cuerno dos veces." *


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

FRA rules say that a engineer can blow the horn or whistle any time for safety!! If you can isolate the track (s) from vehicles & people then you can have a quite zone.. 

BulletBob


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Better go read it again. 
The FRA just changed the rules. 
IF a community (or entity) applies for a "quiet zone", then they cannot blow the horn at crossings. 
Emergencies, as you state, always. 

The light on top is for power loss, which shall negate the quiet zone rule for the crossings indicating loss of power.


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## bryanj (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like Bachmann forgot to tighten the screws again ! 

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrwrecks/obayloco113explosion09-09-1891-3.jpg


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Curmudgeon, 

Better read it again to see what it takes to become a "Quiet Zone".. When it becomes a "Quiet Zone" then the "Entity" assumes the liability for any accidents @ the crossings.. In Marysville, Ks when a train acivates the signals, the buzzer turns on & the light starts to flash.. This is to call your attention to the cross bucks for the railroad crossing & if there gates they close.. This not a "Quiet Zone"!! Citys like this because the sound can directed down the streets reducing the overall sound voluum that a train would create..


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## Snoq Pass (Jan 2, 2008)

FRA Rules: 
Quiet Zone: A quiet zone is a section of a rail line that contains one or more consecutive public crossings at which locomotive horns are not sounded.


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Snog Pass, 

Here is what it takes to become a "quiet zone".. Starting a 1/4 mile from the first crossing & going through all the other crossing & again 1/4 mile out the tracks have to be protected.. This means crossing gates that completly block the road crossing & the sidewalks or close the road crossings.. The railroads also like to have a fence on both sides for the entire length of the "quiet zone".. Or do like Olathe, Ks did & pay to have the tracks elevated above the roads.. If there are signals for the "quiet zone" the entity where the zone is has to maintain them or pay the railroad to do the maintance.. 

BullletBob


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Snog Pass, 

Check this out to see what is required for a "quiet zone".. This is Olathe, Kansas the other side of town from the elevated tracks.. 

http://www.apwa.net/Documents/Meetings/Congress/2008/Handouts/4196.pdf 

BulletBob


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

The "horn" directs down the street at the crossing, NOT in folks backyards for 1/4 mile prior to the crossing. 
I don't know what you are arguing about, unless you just want to argue. 

Some of these have a Leslie 5-chime recording...not a "buzzer". 


It also appears that all prior "quiet zones" were canceled, and the localities need to re-apply. 

However, there does not seem to be one place that spells it all out. 

YOU jumped in with data not part of this discussion (FRA rules say that a engineer can blow the horn or whistle any time for safety!! If you can isolate the track (s) from vehicles & people then you can have a quite zone.. ), but that's not at all what the FRA is saying. 
"Quiet Zones" include grade crossings. 
Why else have directed horns (as required, with a minimum of lights AND crossing gates) if grade separation exists? 

This is funny!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 06/01/2009 12:25 PM
The "horn" directs down the street at the crossing, NOT in folks backyards for 1/4 mile prior to the crossing. 
I don't know what you are arguing about, unless you just want to argue. 

Some of these have a Leslie 5-chime recording...not a "buzzer". 


It also appears that all prior "quiet zones" were canceled, and the localities need to re-apply. 

However, there does not seem to be one place that spells it all out. 

YOU jumped in with data not part of this discussion (FRA rules say that a engineer can blow the horn or whistle any time for safety!! If you can isolate the track (s) from vehicles & people then you can have a quite zone.. ), but that's not at all what the FRA is saying. 
"Quiet Zones" include grade crossings. 
Why else have directed horns (as required, with a minimum of lights AND crossing gates) if grade separation exists? 

This is funny! 




If you think this is funny, you should have read the arguments from present, full-time employed, class 1 railroad engineers arguing about it on the Trains.com forum a few years ago. The rules are quite subject to interpretation from several different directions and levels. The arguments went around and around and around.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Did you read about the "Stop" and "Yield" signs proposed at ALL crossings? 

Seems the idea was to eliminate all responsibility for the localities.


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Curmudgeon, 

Again please read this.. 

http://www.apwa.net/Documents/Meetings/Congress/2008/Handouts/4196.pdf 

BulletBob


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The bottom line is the general public is going to pay if they want the quiet zones. Having quiet zones in certain areas is great but not needed in all places. Placement of quadrant gates is not cheap and you cannot expect the RR to cover cost. One thing is folks just can't stand a recommendation to close a crossing as they may have to drive a block to get to the next crossing. Later RJD


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

RJD, 

You are so right.. If you are an elected official & close a road crossing you have just committed political suicide.. 

BulletBob


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Road Foreman on 06/01/2009 5:41 PM
Curmudgeon, 

Again please read this.. 

http://www.apwa.net/Documents/Meetings/Congress/2008/Handouts/4196.pdf 

BulletBob


I think, just my opinion mind you, that you are arguing for the sake of arguing.
Read page 12 of the link you provided.
Fixed horns at crossings.

Which is what this thread was all about until you went down a disused branch.

Nobody ever said, that I can see, that locomotive horns cannot be used in an emergency.
Unfortunately, you used that as an argument.

Sure, separated grades is best, but, once again, the question was on these horns with a light on top.
Nothing to do with separated grades or ever telling a crew they could not sound the locomotive horn in any emergency.

What exactly is the point of the argument?

Nobody was disagreeing with you.


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## pk (Jul 6, 2008)

Well, so far every single participant in this thread is wrong. 

What you are looking at is a TAWS system. Also know as a Train Awareness Warning System. Not to be mistaken for a Terrain Awareness Warning System used by the aviation industry. 

When an engineering employee activates this system when they are working in the immediate area, the blue strobe will flash and a siren will sound through the speakers when an approaching train is detected. 

Regards, 
pk


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I know about the proximity indicators like used to be on Tehachapi. 
Hard to tell from the original description without photos. 
There is supposed to be a light on top of the crossing unit that indicates power outtage at the crossing. 

You have a photo so the thread originator can identify it?


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I certainly can find no references anywhere for this in the US. 

"What you are looking at is a TAWS system. Also know as a Train Awareness Warning System. Not to be mistaken for a Terrain Awareness Warning System used by the aviation industry. " 

There are all sorts of things listed, some in the UK, but, did you mean Automatic Train Warning System, or ATWS? 
Most all references are UK or EU. 

The only real issue I have understaning this is most now seem to be portable, not fixed, and no necessarily at grade crossings, as the original post stated: 

"Something I recently noticed at an increasing number of road crossings in my area."


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The audible warnig system at these crossing was as mentioned designed to warn track workers of the approaching train. FRA did not care for this at the time that the RWP came into existence. Since i retired form the FRA have not follow up on the posstion they have taken on this. Can't understand why you would be seeing more crossings popping up wfhen the FRA had a made a commitment to closing 25% of the exsisting crossings . Tipical Govt prceedures all talk no action. Later RJD


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 05/30/2009 11:16 PM

http://www.trainsarefun.com/lirr/lirrwrecks/obayloco113explosion09-09-1891-3.jpg 


I hate it when that happens!


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that this thread has covered a variety of things, back to the original question. I'm curious of the purpose of these alarms. I finally got a chance to take some pictures. I also found some of these quite a ways from a grade crossing. So, let's try a whole new set of guesses.


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael, 

They look like Wayside Horns.. The railraod can install them @ crossings & trains do not have to blow there horns.. Reduces the noise since the sound is directed down the street.. The strobe lite on top is for the engineer, tells him/her that the wayside horn is on.. Hope this helps.. 

BulletBob


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Do not believe that was the intent of the system. Later RJD


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

RJD, 

May not have been the intent but that's what it did in Marysville, Kansas until UP went around the town.. Wayside horns turned on & trains came through with out blowing the horn.. 

BulletBob


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## pk (Jul 6, 2008)

Well, I explained it once, I'll explain it breifly again. These are photos of a TAWS system. Stands for Train Awareness Warning System. 

Regards, 
pk


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