# Mixing handlaid switches and commercial track on concrete roadbed



## Todd (Mar 23, 2008)

Hello everyone,

After a couple of false starts over the last 5 years I'm finally ready to get started on a layout this spring. I have decided to go with concrete roadbed after weighing the various options and am firm in that choice. I elected to use code 250 al. Llagas Creek track and have 120ft on hand to get started. I also have around 100 feet of COCRY al. rail I bought 4 or 5 years ago to use for hand laying switches and various other things. I have bought a couple of the R&K Rail Products #6 frogs, they should make the switches fairly straight forward. My issue comes into play with matching the height of the switch to the Llagas Creek track. I have cut my ties to the same height as the Llagas Creek ties but should I try to hand lay switches without stringers (tried this on the straight stock rail tonight seems tedious at best, one slip and everything goes flying even with pre-drilled holes) or put stringers under all the commercial rail (would probably hold ballast well but will drainage be an issue?). What have others tried? Any suggestions would be appreciated.




Thanks,
Todd


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## spincaster (Mar 10, 2012)

Todd, 

To stabilize your switch you could epoxy the rail (bottom roughed up with sandpaper) to the ties. You also need to bend curved rail so that it is not in tension when you build the switch.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never used stringers on my turnouts, or on regular handlayed track. Ties to begin to move a little bit, but I've never had a problem of anything coming out of gauge. You will need to prebend the rail for the turnout! I've never predrilled holes in any of my ties. Another thing to keep in mind is use steel spikes so that they will rust and continue to hold. I've never really understood the idea of predrilling spike holes as cedar is soft enough to spike into to begin with. 








Craig


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

I used a cardboard template to hold my ties. It worked very well for me. This way I had no stringer under the ties. It may be better to make a jig with a piece of wood with strips correctly sized to your tie spacing then you could build any size (or number) switch with the same jig.The "crooked" ties at the end of the diverging track would have to hang off in an area where no tie spacers were glued down.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I've never really understood the idea of predrilling spike holes 
Try spiking redwood.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

should I try to hand lay switches without stringers 
Todd, 

Stringers are useful - for the reason you noticed: they stop everything moving around on the bench. But once the track is in place and ballasted it really makes no difference. 










This 'escape' has no stringers. The answer to the problem of keeping the ties where they need to be has a few different solutions. Cutting slots in card, gluing spacers on a wooden base, or even using double-sided sticky tape are all possible.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 11 Apr 2012 02:01 PM 
I've never really understood the idea of predrilling spike holes 
Try spiking redwood. 
Is redwood that much harder then cedar? I've never had any redwood ties to compare it too.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 11 Apr 2012 12:26 PM 
I used a cardboard template to hold my ties. It worked very well for me. This way I had no stringer under the ties. It may be better to make a jig with a piece of wood with strips correctly sized to your tie spacing then you could build any size (or number) switch with the same jig.


I agree. I have an old jig I built for a #6 turnout that is on a piece of plywood, and has nicely spaced strips for tie placement. I learned to make critical areas on the jig such as, frog location, point location, # of ties need and length. I would suggest building a jig for both a left and right hand turnout. Keeping a strip of wood along the even edge of the ties (on the jig) helps make the tie placement that much easier.

Craig


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bnsfconductor on 11 Apr 2012 02:07 PM 
Posted By Pete Thornton on 11 Apr 2012 02:01 PM 
I've never really understood the idea of predrilling spike holes 
Try spiking redwood. 
Is redwood that much harder then cedar? I've never had any redwood ties to compare it too. 

The 'grain' in redwood is very hard. (Teak has the same problem/issue/characteristic.) I also found it better to pre-drill when using plastic ties - I added a 3rd rail to some track once. Cedar is for wimps.

It's more a question of how many spikes you have to install before your palm gets sore from the spiking pliers. Plain track is the worst.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I think I can go about 3 hours of spiking non stop until my hands get tired... I remember the first 6' of track I spiked took me over 8 hours as I was trying to be really perfect with tie spacing etc. Now I can spike a 6' section in about 30 min. But it does get boring after a while! Spiking pliers are definitely worth their cost!


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## Todd (Mar 23, 2008)

Thanks for all the ideas. Those are some nice looking switches!! I am using cedar ties and steel spikes. Some were going easy and sometimes the spikes were bending. Come to think of it I'm using spikes that have been stored for 4 or 5 years. I have new spikes I'll give those a try, but I think I'll build a jig first. My hand laying experience is limited to about 30 feet of storage tracks which have the ties pinned to plywood so I'm still trying to figure everything out.

Todd


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never had a problem with spikes being old. Every once and a while you will hit a knot or tight grain in the cedar that causes the spike to bend. I usually try to straighten the spike, or grab a new one and then the second spike normally goes in a lot smoother. Do you have a spiking pliers? They seem to work much better then needle nose pliers with a grove ground in them.


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## Todd (Mar 23, 2008)

No, I'm using the home made version with a groove. Who makes good spiking pliers? Most I've seen are only rated thru O scale but I haven't looked very hard yet.


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's the one I have. http://www.micromark.com/spike-insertion-plier,8242.html Although it says its for smaller scales I've had great success with 3/8" spikes. I 'think' the problem with homemade pliers is that we get the groove too wide, so the spikes slip out. I can't really explain why, these work better then pliers with a groove cut out, but it does make a huge difference in my opinion. I started out with homemade pliers and got quickly frustrated with hand spiking, but as soon as I bought the spiking pliers it made a huge difference. Placebo effect? 
You might be able to find them cheaper online, as they are made by Xuron. I magnetized my pliers also so that they hold spikes a little better. 
Just don't keep count of how many spikes you use... I tried one time and gave up! 

Craig


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## Todd (Mar 23, 2008)

I just ordered a pair. Makes sense to me, if the slot is a little big it leaves just enough room to start bending. Thanks for all the help!!


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Not a problem. Be sure to post pictures of your turnout build. Everyone here seems to always like to follow different turnout builds. Everyone has a different approach.


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