# Holding down Outdoor Ballast



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

I was wondering what you guys use to hold down ballast for outdoor railroads?

We tested a section of track ballasted with nothing to hold it down, after a thunderstorm we found all of it had washed over the edge of the decking.

The thing is, I am trying to find a glue that would hold the ballast down, but also be removable should I ever want to add a switch or change the track plan.

Thanks for any suggestions


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well without much known about your RR and location, what I do may not work for you. My track and ballast free float just line the big boys. I use no adhesives to hold the ballast in place. My RR is fairly level but do have some fills but I rarly have problems with washouts. I occasionally have to do re ballasting and track sufacing but that is normal maintenance for me. Later RJD


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## Fred (Jan 2, 2008)

I use TiteBond II mixed 40-60 with water & use a turkey baster to apply it after I first spray the ballast with reg water with a drop or two of dishwasher soap added. I have found that it holds the track & ballast in place but can easily be removed if you want to make some track changes. I clean the rails off when finished.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I use medium chicken grit. It's quite angular and holds in place pretty well. I feel, if you glue, you have the ties fixed and when the rail expands it will tear off the spike heads that hold it on to the tie. Just my opinion.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

You mention "decking" so I assume you mean a wood (or such) platform of some sort that is elevated such as there is no natural barrier to the ballast spreading.

I had an elevated RR and I used lawn edging (a thin, rigid plastic strip about 4 inches wide) stapled to the edge of the structure so that about 1/2 inch extended above the surface. This contained the ballast quite well, but the edging I bought was "Cheap" and not UV resistant, so it got very brittle after a couple of years. Anything catching on it would cause it to break or tear, so a shirt sleeve or a fat belly tore it up pretty badly and I will need to replace it when I rebuild my elevated structure.

I still had to add ballast periodically because the birds ate an awful lot of it. Many times I saw from 5 to a dozen birds hopping down the track all in a row, looking like a feathered train, stopping periodicaly, almost in unison, to ingest a small amount of the chicken grit... Sparrows, Starlings and sometimes Grackles, as well as the lone Cardinal and Robin at times.

A friend of mine is trying out a concrete additive to help hold "Crusher Fines" in place on the ground. The additive is supposed to be added to concrete to make it stickier, but when mixed with some water it makes a decent outdoor "glue". He is still experimenting with the ratio of water being added to see what works best. From my minimal observations I see he is having some trouble getting a uniform mixture or coating of the Crusher Fines, and the ballast is still sometimes washing away, but not uniformly (the remaining ballast looks like heavy lace).


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Hey Guys, His lay out is a very nice and new elevated deck. Se his previous post: http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/afv/topic/aff/11/aft/121032/Default.aspx 

Instead of some sort of edging that would stick up to contain the ballast, has any on ever carefully laid a "line" of ballast down each side of the decking at an appropriate height, then glued the lines in place? Then one could fill in in between the lines with loose ballast. Kind of the best of both worlds. Good luck, and let us know what you settle on.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I use TiteBond II and TiteBond III mixed about 50/50 and applied with a pump spray bottle. Apply the glue ONLY on the sides to hold the edge in place. Allow the track to sit in loose ballast between the glued edges. Soak it long and deep, more is better.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

All I can say is: "I feel your pain."

My track is all ground-level, with what's known around here as "stonesand" for ballast on roadbed of 0s & 1s (aughts and ones). In Sept of 2009 I put in my first hundred feet of track and it was "rock solid" til late 2010 when we had some unusually heavy rains that washed some ballast down the sides of the roadbed, but nothing awful. Earlier last summer I had laid another 150 feet and those late summer rains repeatedly flushed off the ballast in many spots. I couldn't understand why my newer ballast wasn't doing as well as the previous year's.

This year - April and May were almost constant rain including a lot of heavy downpours. The original 100 feet still showed less wear than last year's 150. I laid down 250 feet of track in June and July and it's staying in place better, even with a fair amount of rain including a few brief heavy showers.

I've come to the conclusion that this system works, but timing is everything. Ballast needs time and moisture to settle down and lock in place to form a firm layer. Although we've had a fair amount of rain this summer, including a few heavy showers, the recent ballasting and re-ballasting is holding in better. What's different this year is that I end every ballasting session by getting out my garden pump sprayer filled with plain water and give all the new and recent ballast a gentle shower. Not quite a soaking, but I make sure the water penetrates. I think it's the wet-dry cycle that helps the teeny stones lock in with their neighbors well enough to be able to withstand a pounding rain. If you can get the ballast firmly settled before a hard rain, it won't wash away so easily.

Oh please, let me be right. My knees are killing me.

JackM


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I use TiteBond II and TiteBond III mixed about 50/50 and applied with a pump spray bottle. Apply the glue ONLY on the sides to hold the edge in place. 

I'll second the emotion: glue only on the sides. Don't get it on the rails. I foolishly sprayed that mix right onto a section of my original 100 feet: Titebond and water plus some leftover expired black inkjet ink (I figured maybe it would darken the silvery new stainless steel rails). Disaster? You bet! Nothing would run on it. I had to get out the ScotchBrite to scrub the gunk off the rails, although there are still very noticeable splotches of black to this day. I suspect full-strength black inkjet ink might darken the sides of SS rail, but I'll let someone else give it the full-scale test. 

My motto: Quit While I'm Behind. 

JackM


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## david bunn (Jan 4, 2008)

I am in the process of completely rebuilding my railroad.Previously I have used chicken grit but that suffered serious loss mainly due to rain.
By chance while buying some concrete blocks for the new line I noticed that the same source sold granite chippings so bought two bags.This stuff is brilliant,near scale size and with a lot of granite dust mixed in,laid damp it dries with a semi rigid surface which holds its shape and so far has resisted heavy rain.Best stuff I have ever used.
Regards
David


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## Tom Thornton (Nov 18, 2008)

David What is the stuff called? And did you get it at one of the big box home centers?

Thanks Tom Thornton


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm nervous about gluing ballast down too, but I've done it with a small test section using a little bit of quick set mortar mixed into the ballast. What I like is that the track stays in place and is secure enough that my 1-1/2 year old can't move it. But I'm concerned about rail expansion too. Has anyone actually had the spikes on their tie strips break due to expansion?


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

David,
Can you expand anymore on the granite chippings? Like brand,size of bag? Any info on where to get it.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I use 'crusher fines' for ballast, not sure what they are called in other parts of the country. It is what is left over after crushing larger rock. I bought a dump truck load from a sand and gravel dealer. I tried gluing it down and found that either the rails pulled loose trom the ties or the ballast simply broke up into chunks which looked ugly and didn't do their job. I use Randy's method of laying down a line of gravel on each side of the track and gluing that then adding loose gravel gravel in between. Seems to work quite well. Here in New Mexico we don't get a lot of rain but do get gully washers that dump an inch in an hour or less.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 08 Aug 2011 11:51 AM 
I use medium chicken grit. It's quite angular and holds in place pretty well. I feel, if you glue, you have the ties fixed and when the rail expands it will tear off the spike heads that hold it on to the tie. Just my opinion. 
Me to. It holds up through the summer rain and following a winters worth of snow and ice I only have to touch up small sections and I'm good to go. Medium chicken grit is very cheap (cheep?) to so keep some around for when you need it.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to use decomposed granite for ballast because that is what is available around here. It works fine if you screen out the large pieces. I have tried titebond II and concrete. Over time nothing really is permanent. But my railroad is on the ground through the garden. So what I do now is just replace the ballast when we get some heavy rains. But this year it hasn't rained since Feb so it's been an easy year for ballast. I find that the more ballast you apply the better is sticks. My dogs use the track for a walking path which tamps it down until it's hard as concrete. I keep a 30 gallon heavy duty trash can full of ballast for when I need it. On a raised layout as you have just use the plastic garden edging, leaving the rolled top above the deck. We use that technique at our club track at Zube park. The ballast may splatter around on the deck, but it won't wash off. We now use the rolled roofing to cover the deck and discontinued the use of ballast as it tended to foul the switches.


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