# Lionel versus USA trains



## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

I like USA trains due to the metal casts and their stability, but the motors, some times make a noise like the sound from a dentist drill. In addition, USA trains do not run well when the rail is wet (PIKO and LGB trains have no problem with wet rails). I want to hear the contrast between Lionel and USA trains. Thanks in advance.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

based on your pic above - what locos for each brand are you trying to compare? 

It will be easier for others to make their opinions fit your situation. 

Dirk - happy rails & have fun with your trains....


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Are we talking OLD Lionel track powered (GP9-GP20, decent to very good) or NEW battery bi-Polar Express based Lionel (Pennsy Flyer, poor to crap ) 

Anything USA is very good


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

"based on your pic above - what locos for each brand are you trying to compare? 

It will be easier for others to make their opinions fit your situation. " 

I just show the railway that I built in the past few months with the help of members of this MLS forum. I am interested to get Lionel locos and I want to compare Lionel with USA trains since I don't want to get the locos with the same disadvantages as I observed with USA trains.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Lionel has no current track-powered items in production for large scale. I would have to agree with Victor concerning the quality of the battery-powered (pseudo) large scale(?) sets. You can still find older track-powered Lionel locomotives, but they will probably be "previously owned," and possibly on their "last legs." Sorry for the discouraging input, but those are the facts at present.

If the "iffy" scale of Lionel does not bother you, you may want to take a look at what Hartland Locomotive Works has to offer. They may not be the most exactly scaled offerings, but their mechanisms are "bullet-proof," and details can be added. I have added some photos of HLW equipment below to give you an idea. 













































As you can see, HLW offers a fair selection of motive power that can be modified to look more scale.

Best of luck,
David Meashey


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

The gear whine gets less and less the more you run a USA loco. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that a USAT loco slips in the rain. I pulled 33 cars up a 4% grade with wet rail with my GP9. That's with the traction tires removed. I stalled out at 34 cars.. The grade was 150' long. 

Craig


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

"The gear whine gets less and less the more you run a USA loco. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that a USAT loco slips in the rain. I pulled 33 cars up a 4% grade with wet rail with my GP9. That's with the traction tires removed. I stalled out at 34 cars.. The grade was 150' long". 

It is interesting to know that your USA loco works well in the rain. My Virginia & Truckee loco didn't run if the rail gets wet after the rain not to say in the rain. I wonder if the motors for steam and diesel locos are different? As I learned from Youtube, it seems diesel engines are much stronger than the ones in steam locos.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By mymodeltrain on 14 Aug 2013 07:51 AM 
"The gear whine gets less and less the more you run a USA loco. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that a USAT loco slips in the rain. I pulled 33 cars up a 4% grade with wet rail with my GP9. That's with the traction tires removed. I stalled out at 34 cars.. The grade was 150' long". 

It is interesting to know that your USA loco works well in the rain. My Virginia & Truckee loco didn't run if the rail gets wet after the rain not to say in the rain. I wonder if the motors for steam and diesel locos are different? As I learned from Youtube, it seems diesel engines are much stronger than the ones in steam locos. 

Errrr....are you sure its a USA train? 

I do not recall USA _ever_ making a Virginia & Truckee loco, particularly a steam loco, USA trains are strictly standard gauge 1/29 scale diesels, please post a pic of what engine you are having issues with.


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

" I do not recall USA ever making a Virginia & Truckee loco, particularly a steam loco, USA trains are strictly standard gauge 1/29 scale diesels, please post a pic of what engine you are having issues with"

This is the photo of the USA trains, Virginia & Truckee


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Go to one of Greg Elmassian's posts and click on the link to his web site. I think he has information and troubleshooting for that locomotive on his site.

Yours,
David Meashey


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

OK sorry I forgot about the docksider 

I havent heard of any issues with these, rain or otherwise, its still 100 times better that the Lionel bi-Polar Express based engines 

Check Greg's website, like Dave suggests 

BTW which Lionel engines were you considering???


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

Thanks all for the information. I will check Greg's website to learn more how to improve the loco's performance.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm guessing you have pick up problems due to short wheel base locos to fit your R1 curves, short locos = few wheels. Wheels are poor compared to a slider for electrical pick up and continuity to the motor, the juice either goes through the oiled bearing or is collected with a brush. While a slider presents a flat surface and wires to the motor. 
Personally I would remove sliders because I don't like the look. 
What is your rail metal and how often do you clean the rails? 

A open minded suggestion; go to small LGB they are engineered for those curves. It's open minded because I don't have any. That's what works best, not what's cheapest. 

Happy Rails


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

"I'm guessing you have pick up problems due to short wheel base locos to fit your R1 curves, short locos = few wheels. Wheels are poor compared to a slider for electrical pick up and continuity to the motor, the juice either goes through the oiled bearing or is collected with a brush. While a slider presents a flat surface and wires to the motor. 
Personally I would remove sliders because I don't like the look. 
What is your rail metal and how often do you clean the rails?" 


I agree, it seems the wheels are not enough to pick up power. What I notice in PIKO and LGB locos is that they have additional pieces of metal to pickup electricity ( I don't know if these are called sliders) and thus they run well even the rail is wet or during slight rains. 
The brass rail is from PIKO. I clean my rail everyday prior to the run.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes those 'metal pieces' are the sliders or more commonly called, skates. I am surprised your docksider doesn't come with skate pickups, I have USA diesel blocks on some of my bashes, they all have skates, some people don't like the look of them and remove them, but I always think they are there for a reason because they really do help power pickup. 

I was wondering if a pair of skates could be added between two of the drivers, but then I remembered that long ago I tried adding skates to one of my models but it was trickier than I expected, I'm sure I could do it today but unless your adept at kitbashing...well, if not good little project to start, or maybe add power pick ups to a dedicated trailing car? 

I'm still curious what Lionel you are considering?


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

"I'm still curious what Lionel you are considering?" 

Thanks for the explanation regarding the sliders. I don't know anything about Lionel trains. I just want to explore another model that can overcome the limitations I have so far with the USA train. As for the size of my rail, I am looking for small locos only.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"As for the size of my rail, I am looking for small locos only."

As I noted earlier in this thread, you really should check out Hartland Locomotive Works' site. Just click on the link and have a look at their stuff.

The mechanisms are very robust, and their products are made in the USA. I have no commercial interest; I'm just a satisfied customer.

David Meashey


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

"As I noted earlier in this thread, you really should check out Hartland Locomotive Works' site. Just click on the link and have a look at their stuff. 

The mechanisms are very robust, and their products are made in the USA. I have no commercial interest; I'm just a satisfied customer". 

David, 
I like the idea. Actually, I also looked into HLW's products for a while. And many others also mentioned the quality of HLW. While this is a hobby, we are also conscious about Made in USA for our job market, I go for it.


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