# Winter layout questions



## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

I have a decent sized outdoor layout which sees alot of use during the summer but I would like to try running it year round. We usually put everything away when the snow hits every fall. I have seen alot of stuff online about rotary type plows and spreaders and flangers and traditional plows. I feel that I could make any of them work but I am wondering what is a good diesel type locomotive that is heavy, has great power and will be able to handle the riggors of snow, ice and moisture? Ideally I would like to run on track power without stringing a line for a pantograph.

What do you guys recommend?

Thanks!


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

You might consider an Aristo plow car [with brick inside] pushed by a pair of Dash-9s, SD45s, F3s, FAs, or even a Mikado, depending on your minimum turn diameters.
JimC.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

A single dash 9 or Sd45 can push the Aristo plow for powder type snow. It takes a pair for heavy/crusty snow. 

Also, keep the equipment cold, not at room temperature when using/storing them for minimal sweating of moisture. 

I keep mine in my bulkhead and they are stored at 40 degrees. 

Warm wheels will melt snow and the rails will ice up instantly, thus creating insulated track!!! 

Battery users will not care about rail icing.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

_Au contrair mon a mi!! _Ice on the rails screws us up just as badly but for different reasons! You can't even plow fluffy powder when your wheels do nothing but spin on icy rails!







That great advice about letting your engine get cold before you set it on the rails should_ never _be ignored even if you aren't running track power! (Don't ask me how I learned that...)


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Wedge plows and rotaries will work well in snow depths of about 2" or less. Deeper than that you may have some problems and need several engines. I strongly recommend using a plastic back country shovel (available at most outdoor recreation stores) to remove the snow when your plows don't work. A steel shovel will scratch the rails and will cause damage to any items that are buried in the snow near the track, such as signals and switch stands. Like Steve, don't ask me how I learned this lesson.

Running in the winter is a lot of fun. There are a lot of suggestions in previous threads about winter operations.

Chuck 


Here are a couple of links to winter operation.

K-27 plowing 

winter operations 

My rotary in operation. All plows work much better in dry powdery snow. Heavy wet snow generally requires a shovel.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I would run two SD45s with the plow just for looks and may be cause you made need them also. I'll Tell you one thing you get Ice on the rail and your train is not going now where as you loose dialectical contact by the wheels riding up on the ice. The locos will not break the ice up. This happened to me a couple of weeks ago as we got some freezing rail then a light snow. I had left the plow and locos in the tunnel and went out side the next morning to plow. Once out side the tunnel everything stopped dead no power due to ice build up on rail. Later RJD


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that's a Snow Blower. 

Must have a 5 hp Briggs powering it. 

Randy


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy:

It is powered by a 6v jel cell. 











If there is any snow on the rails and the rails are below freezing the weight of the engine will cause the snow to melt and then it will refreeze after the engine goes by. You will usually go around once and then you loose traction and electricity. I have used a credit card to scrape off the thin film of ice on top of the rails. This usually requires calling in for a new card afterward. 


Chuck


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd keep a couple of those old gift cards from Christmas after you have spent them and use them instead of your credit card. It would save the hassle!


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Also, cover any turnouts or set them for the direction you need before it snows. Otherwise the throws freeze in place and you cannot switch the points.


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## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

Great ideas guys! I especially like that rotary. Lemme guess, D&RGW+snow must mean you're from Colorado, right? They have an awesome layout at the museum in Golden but when I was there it was not running. 

Currently I've got the long wide turns on my mainline, not quite sure of the ratio but they were able to handle a Bachman F7A+B no problem. All of my motive power as of now are LGB 0-4-0's. Who makes a good SD40 or SD45 that is good to run in the snow? I had a Bachman ATSF GP38 awhile back that got moist but never rained on and the poor thing was wrecked after one summer.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

For now you can get SD40 from USAT or SD45 and -9s from Aristo. Take your pick. If doing the SD40 I'd replace the traction tire axle with one that has solid wheels. Later RJD


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Zoro:

I did live in the Denver area when that picture was taken. All of my plows worked better there than in Virginia where I live most of the year. I'm in Arizona now for a couple of months. My railroad in Virginia is now under about 30 inches of the white stuff. Way too much to even think about plowing if I was there.

I'm a little bit confused about you mention of having a Bachmann F7A&B run on your layout. The only F7s that I know of are by LGB. If it is LGB, only the A unit is powered. USA Trains make F3s, but I'm not aware of any Bachmann Fs.

What part of the country do you live in? 


Thanks Steve, that's a good idea, now I have to get someone to give me a gift card!! 


Chuck


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Running trains in the snow can be lots of fun, and can also be frustrating.

When we first started outdoors, our locomotives were track powered. We could run in the snow, but track power and icy rails did not work very well.

This was taken back when we were primarily track powered (the rotary was also track powered back then)












In more recent years, we've converted to mostly battery powered locomotives. Even the rotary has been converted to battery power. With battery power, running in the snow is a whole lot easier. 


However our situation is sort of unique. Our layout is in Colorado, but I work and live most of the year in Southern California. So when I get a chance to get out to Colorado I go. But in recent years (when I can get out during the winter), there has been too much snow to plow or run the rotary. 


Last year I took a loco and caboose out for a short winter run. Because there was a lot of snow, I dug down to the tracks for these photos. To compare the amount of snow, the above photo and the below photos were taken very near the same location on the layout.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Winter layout? Not under 24 - 30 inches of snow - 

This - 











becomes this - 











and this - 











becomes this - 











-Brian


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## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

Chuck- 
As of right now Leadville, Colorado but hopefully soon I will be near Fairplay. Less snow and more room for a layout! The F units I ran belong to my grandfather and were Southern Pacific in the daylight scheme. I know he's had them for atleast 15 years and he had them overhauled shortly after buying them. The B unit may not have been powered at first but it is now. I could have sworn they were Bachmann's but I could be mistaken. They are definately not LGB's. 

For those of you running battery powered locomotives how much run time do you get?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the location information. I think that in either location you will be doing more shoveling than plowing. The problem for plowing with deep snow on either side of the track is that the plow has no where to put the snow it is trying to move off the track. If you look at Matt's pictures the cuts are so deep that even my rotary would have a hard time lifting the snow up and over the edge.

Could you get us some pictures of your grandfathers diesels? 

Chuck


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## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

Chuck-
I don't have any actual images of them but they look just like these:

http://www.hobbymasters.com/images/...ctId=11499

I guess they are F3's and not F7's, my mistake. 

Where do you guys go for track? I'm already planning the layout for my new place and I can't seem to find long lenths of straight track for under about $6.50 per foot. I would love a long straight away but at the same time I don't want to break the bank.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

That photo look's like F3 units made by USAT. Later RJD


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Zoro:

If your grandfathers engine is made by USA Trains, both the F3A and F3B come powered and the bellows between the engines are a rubber material. On the LGB Fs the bellows are hard plastic. 


Chuck N


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## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

Bellows are rubber so I'm guessing USA Trains.

I was just thinking about ice on the track. Do the LGB style track sliders help to clear it away or are they just for power pickup purposes only?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Zoro:

From my experience, the LGB sliders will ride up over any ice, they are not effective at removing the thin film of ice on the rail.

Chuck


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## Trainwreckfilms (Aug 19, 2009)

SD70MAC = heavy


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## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

Chuck- 
Gotcha. 

Trainwreckfilms- 
WOW! Are you running battery or track power?


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## sang_route (Sep 24, 2008)

Has anyone tried a heating element or even a squeegee slung under the car? Or one could build this












Not all that hard, an angled tip off a shopvac, the guts out of a sacrificial hairdryer, chain or gear drive and all the weight available...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Helluva nice shot Colin! 

Greg


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## Trainwreckfilms (Aug 19, 2009)

Sorry to get everyone all crazy on that photo its from gold coast stations website. I currently have that locomotive. Its about to be converted over to battery power with the Train Engineer Revolution. Its Heavy and will do the work of 2 USA Trains Geeps.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The problem I see with building a snow blower as shown, would tend to blow my ballast away. Not good. Later RJD


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Then take one of the small Butane powered torches and add a "fanning" tip to it, build a larger butane tank for it and away you go right? 

Chas


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By sang_route on 10 Feb 2010 08:42 PM 
Has anyone tried a heating element.....the guts out of a sacrificial hairdryer 



One year the ice layer was so thick I could not dig down to the tracks. I tried using a hair dryer to melt my way to the tracks. But this did not work at all. It took forever to get any progress and in my opinion was a complete waste of time.


So it sounded like a plausible idea, but in actuality didn't work out too well. 


It might work for a thin layer of ice on the rails. But, as mentioned above, scrapers (like a credit card or gift card) work well for this.


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## zoro (Feb 8, 2010)

What about putting some sort of heating element inside of the ballast? It would probably have to be left on the night before but that should take care of the ice, right?


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