# Loco power pickup differences



## Steve Monson (Dec 27, 2007)

I have run track power for 18 years. I am still mystified why a heavy loco like an Aristo Mike with many wheel pickup pulling a 20 car train with metal wheels can't keep its own wheels shiny clean. Why does my Bachmann 0-4-0T with 4 wheel pickup run so much better. Others have told me the same thing. Their Bachmann or LGB run great with track power. Their big Aristo stutter. Perhaps someone figured this out a long time ago. Thanks. Steve Monson


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Check the amperage draw of the various locomotives. Engines drawing a high current May have arcing between the wheels and the track. That adds to the spotting on the wheels. Try running your engines in the dark and see if you can see sparks.

The harder the motor works, the more amps it draws.

Chuck


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

As Chuck says, a lot probably has to do with motor draw--LGB use good 7 pole motors that don't draw nearly as much power as the can motors in the Aristo. In addition, the LGB use sliders which make a big difference in power pickup as there is a much bigger surface area on the track to transfer the current. Another big difference is in the material used for the wheels: LGB uses good quality plating while Aristo uses well, to put it delicately, crap. I've had to machine my friends Aristo Pacific wheels several times because the pitting gets so bad. As the pitting gets worse, power transfer worsens and it spirals down from there to the point where they'll hardly run. Since switching to DCC I find the wheels stay cleaner as well.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Different plating on the wheels. Check the plating on your Mike for flaking pieces that trap dirt.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

As CRR says, sliders make a big difference. I have four LGB engines that never had sliders: SEG, Uintah, and Sumpter Valley Mallets and the Zillertalbahn 0-6-2. The drive wheels on those engines gunk up very quickly. They require much more cleaning than other LGB engines with sliders. I have seen the wheels on the LGB engines without sliders spark at night. 

I do not have the problem with Bachmann's and Accucraft's engines without sliders.

Chuck


----------



## Steve Monson (Dec 27, 2007)

Better plating and sliders. OK. I can believe that. Is it very easy to add LGB sliders to an Aristo Mike? Thanks. Steve


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

My uninformed guess is no. The sliders need a special bracket.

An easier way to add pickups is to add contacts to a trailing car or two and wire those into the engine.

Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The power pickup system on the Aristo "prime mover" gearboxes has a number of "design weaknesses"... often only 50% of the wheels are picking up power. You can verify this with a voltmeter with a "sensitive" ohms scale. I got into a spat with Aristo by stating this on my web site, and then proved it to Navin at a show where they brought a new Mikado motor block specifically for me to demonstrate the problem. Even this hand picked motor block only had 4 of the 8 wheels picking up power.

You can correct this problem but you have to disassemble the motor block.

It's all on my web site.

Greg


----------



## Steve Monson (Dec 27, 2007)

Yes, I have had the Aristo "prime mover" gear boxes apart. And I know the contacts seldom are all working to the drivers. There are just too many places that can fail. I always hated the thought of sliders. Oh well. They certainly would eliminate some of the many contact points. I am going to get some sliders and put them in a trailing car for a first try. Thanks everyone.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually the only really common failure point is the "finger" not touching the spring (that holds the ball against the axle).

The other connection points are pretty reliable, although they can fail.

If you go "through" an Aristo loco, though, you can do just a few things and make a very reliable, long lasting workhorse. Good ideas assembled poorly with poor QA.

Regards, Greg


----------



## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Sliders do help but also create scraping noise as the engine run s, not as noticable on my LGB's that have sound, but on others I can hear it. That being said, the LGB engines I have owned that lacked track skates, a 2080d and 2085d both were much more sensitive to dirty track than engines with skates. Thats one reason I bought a later model 23802 Harz engine as it has track skates, along with better looking/prototypical side rods. Cheers Mike


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

USA train sliders are not as wide as LGB and can case some engines to jump on switch frogs. THey fall into the gap!!
Changing to the wider LGB sliders fixes this issue.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have not had problems with USAT sliders on Aristo switches (wr or #6) BUT I have seen a lot of locos with bent sliders that have apparently caught on something.

When bent, they can "dig into" almost any imperfection in trackwork.

Also, wide sliders can also "bridge" rails of opposite polarity and cause shorts.

All my sliders are in a box somewhere, and I have no pickup issues, of course all my Aristo locos have been checked out, and all my USAT locos have had the traction tire wheels replaced with "solid" ones, thus making up for the loss in pickups.

Greg


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

There ya go!!!!

ALL of my sliders are in a box too...

Less weight for batteries to lug around....
Less drag to wear out rail tops...

And I don't have to look at the ugly parts that are not real...

Go batteries...!!!! No,... I'm not starting a war...
Seems it is pretty clear...!!

Dirk


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> USA train sliders are not as wide as LGB and can case some engines to jump on switch frogs. THey fall into the gap!!
> Changing to the wider LGB sliders fixes this issue.


 
While I've heard this to be a problem, I've never encountered it with my 18 LGB 1600-series or three AristoCraft 10' diameter turnouts and I have several USAT engines of various types.


----------

