# Beltron questions for Tony



## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony,
I read about the new Beltron system and have a couple of questions. I'm an EVO user and I'm very interested in the new system .


I'm a real advocate of the 2.4 radios but will a 75mhz radio work with this speed control also?

What is simulated brake release and brake apply feature of the new system?

How is the programming done with channel 5 on the radio?
Have you taken into account the "reboot" time that 2.4 receivers have? When you turn off the transmitter and turn it back on the receiver sometimes takes a second or two to "reboot" itself and recapture the signal from the transmitter. This was a real problem with Spektrum 6100 receivers and caused some flight crashes (now we're not working in 3 dimensions with model RR'ing so the consequences aren't quite as catastrophic).

Thanks in advance for any info you might post.

Dave


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dave Ottney on 10 Sep 2009 11:02 AM 
Tony,
I read about the new Beltron system and have a couple of questions. I'm an EVO user and I'm very interested in the new system .


I'm a real advocate of the 2.4 radios but will a 75mhz radio work with this speed control also?

What is simulated brake release and brake apply feature of the new system?

How is the programming done with channel 5 on the radio?
Have you taken into account the "reboot" time that 2.4 receivers have? When you turn off the transmitter and turn it back on the receiver sometimes takes a second or two to "reboot" itself and recapture the signal from the transmitter. This was a real problem with Spektrum 6100 receivers and caused some flight crashes (now we're not working in 3 dimensions with model RR'ing so the consequences aren't quite as catastrophic).

Thanks in advance for any info you might post.

Dave 



Hello Dave.
Thanks for your support in the past.

It is technically possible to use the 75 MHz R/C systems to control the BELTROL ESC's.
First a little background.
The problem is 75 MHz R/C's were, and still are, quite susceptible to all sorts of "interference" (even FM) which meant Digital Proportional (DP) speed controllers could "Glitch" quite badly. So a way around this glitching had to be found. I did that by converting the DP signal to a momentum operation in 1988. That method has stayed with us until the advent of the 2.4 GHz R/C systems.
2.4 GHz is virtually immune to both Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) and motor "noise" interference. That means the possibility of having true DP control was now available without any "Glitching" at all. 
As long as the 75 MHz radio has at least 5 channels they could be used. Subject of course, to the possibility of "Glitching".
The 5th channel is required for system programming and must be either OFF or ON and not be spring loaded towards the middle.

Simulated brake release and brake apply is a user controlled ability to vary the rate of acceleration and braking with the direction stick when the loco is actually operating.
1. For brake release. Once the direction has been set, hold the direction stick fully back and then use the throttle stick set the speed you wish attain. If you keep holding the brake stick the loco will accelerate at the slowest rate up to the speed set. If the stick is let go it will accelerate at the fastest rate. The rate is variable depending on the stick position.
2. Brake apply. When running hold the direction stick fully back and then set the speed to zero. If you keep holding the direction stick back the loco will start to slow down at the slowest possible rate.

Channel # 5 is used two ways.
1. When switched on prior to turning ON the TX the system goes into a calibration mode. This is where the operator sets the stick parameters in the IC memory. This is only necessary because, whilst the the various R/C systems all work the same way, the actual available DP signal can vary in length from brand to brand. The system measures the actual stick movement and calculates what the system needs so that the speed control output is actually OFF when OFF is selected by the stick position. The very first click on the speed stick turns on the auto notch 8 functions. Click # 2 starts the pwm output.
2. When the switched ON after the TX is turned ON the system is in neutral, the operator can program variables such as speed matching, default direction on start up and variable momentum effect ON - OFF.

I was told that 2.4 Ghz systems have high battery consumption which would mean turning the TX off would be desirable to save batteries. 
The BELTROL system program was written to ignore the built in R/C fail safe modes so that the TX could be turned off to let the loco cruise.
My experience so far is that AA batteries in 2.4 GHz TX's last just as long, if not longer, than AA batteries used in the old am stuff. 
So yes, the delay sometimes experienced whilst the TX and RX reconnect was taken into account. As you correctly point out, as we are working in two dimensions and not three, it is of little real consequence unless you have elected to turn the TX off and cruise. In an emergency situation that 2 - 6 second delay may result in a crash.
So, I would just leave the TX switched ON.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Dave (and Tony) - May I offer an opinion? I routinely run my trains for 4-5 hours at a time without operator intervention. It really doesn't seem to matter if are running track power, battery power, radio control, or not; when the emergency happens you will most likely either be; in the bathroom, unable to even find the remote, or on the other side of the yard talking to a visitor. The 2-10+ seconds in may take to re-link a 2.4GHZ Tx and Rx is really of little consequence. In most cases, on my layout anyway, at worst that means dragging the derailed car or loco an extra 10 feet before I can get it stopped. And, like Tony said, if you are really that concerned about it, just keep the Transmitter turned on and use rechargeable batteries.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The delay evident with the DX5e is not so evident with the other two brands I have tested. Both the PLANET and HOBBY KING more or less re-link pretty well instantaneously. i.e. 1 - 2 seconds max.


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Del & Tony, 
The relink problem was really evident in the early versions of the Spektrum 6100 receivers. There has been an update to that 6100's software to help the problem but these particular receivers still take longer to reboot and reacquire signal than others in the Spektrum line. The 6100 receivers are really sensitive to low voltage "blackouts" when the BEC on the speed controls would "hiccup". Again in a flying situation it can be a real problem! 
I think that we all will find out that the 2.4 environment will be much better in model RR'ing and it appears that the new Beltron and Del's ESC's using 2.4 trans/rec systems will be a real boon for the hobby. 
Thanks for the quick replies. 
Dave


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