# Burlap Method?



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

There were some thread on here about sauturating Burlap with portland cement and using it to make stuff.

Was the cement made real souppy or wet?

Then the burlap dipped in it?

JJ


----------



## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

JJ,

You would want it about the consistency of pancake batter, you are using the burlap as the reinforcing material just like re-bar so you would want to have the burlap completely encased in the concrete. In the smaller scales we use window screen, chicken wire and similar things to give it strength and call it the "Hard shell scenery method". What are you thinking of doing?


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

While I am waiting for seals for the backhoe cylinders I will try and work on other projects. 

I have to cover two things

In the first picture the cinder blocks on the left of the tunnel portal










In this picture you can see both places. The cinder block on the left like in the first picture and the cinderblock on the right in this picture.

I also may try the alumminum foil casting trick. 












I thought the portland cement had to be real soupy to soak into the burlap.


I will post pictured of my progress. 



JJ


----------



## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

John, 

burlap does just hang down. 
you ever had a broken limb? then you would know, how they applied the plaster using pieces of cloth/bandages. 

before you hang up your cement-bearing burlaps you need something to hang them to. as your blocks already give stability, you just need "rocky" outcroppings. 
easy done with chickenwire. 

for a good surface use a wirebrush on the nearly dry cement. or use a mix of fresh cement with a fine crush of old cement - or both 

btw - if you are going to make overhangs, just lay down the burlap from the wrong side (the inner side) when the cement is half dry, apply some more from the visible side with a pinsel.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey John

You might want to check out TJ-Lee's realy great article on doing that, he made a PDF file that you can download link below.

Making Mole Hills Look Like Mountains[/b]


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

JJ, 
I gather you want to cover the cindys between your rocks and along the steep wall... with the ultimate aim of a water proof canyon. 

The burlap is a convience to dip in crete and transfer it to where wanted... cut it up to fit your areas and to make managable sizes. Thin enough to soak the fibers, thick enough to stay put. Trial and error... 

I'd suggest making the area between the rocks to look like dirt cliffs. Easy to do, throw dirt on the wet cemet, brush it on, sift it on..gently push some in, etc... After it dries sweep off the excess. If you want to get real creative work in erosion cuts and gullies for depth. Even steps of different layers of sediment, that erodes at different rates. 

The burlap method is an off shoot of the old Hard Shell scenery support, then rock castings and fake turf were applied over the shell. So don't expect the burlap to look like anything besides burlap dipped in cement... The foil method might look like cut rock in a tunnel...compared to your natural stones, so only use it where it would be cost effective for the railroad. 

When I did a section of The Painted Desert, I used dry pigment for stucco. Home Disapointment has it in quart sized milk carton containers in; reds, yellows, browns, grey etc... I just mixed small batches of color and troweled it on in layers. 

John


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Steve C. Thanks for the link. I did down load the PDF. It looks like there is a great deal of good information there. 

John. Thanks for you imput. I am going to try what you suggest. The "Dirt" look is what I was after.

Our local Homeus Depotus ( two with in 15 miles) do not stock much color. It is special order.

I would also like to get some of the fiberglass they mix in cement for strength.

I will check out Lows and a local concrete supply house that sells to contractors and should have what I want. 

JJ 

PS Seals for the two cylinders have shipped. Should be here by monday. only cost me 70 bucks.


----------



## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

John the easiest colorant is Iron sulphate, you'll find it in the garden section of Home depot or similar. Just mix some up in a garden sprayer and apply it to the damp cement. It will come up as a reddish brown color.The more you use the more densethe color.
Rod


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ if you send me a private email with your phone number i can give you a call and tell you how we did the burlap, cement and how to color the cement so it looks like red rock or you can call me and i can get your number that way. It,a easier to tell someone than email you the process.


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Opps my number is 1-330-454-3467 and my name is pete


----------



## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

Personally - I think the foiled mortar method looks much more natural. Just my 2 cents JJ - maybe not as easy? I have not done either myself...have only seen pictures of end results and this is what I have made my determination on. You DO live in the desert though...burlap may look for natural out there?


----------



## hans911 (Jan 9, 2008)

I've used burlap covered with Portland cement over chicken wire and it came out pretty good. For color I used acrylic paints from Michaels and watered them down to make a wash. Paint the whole thing white with outdoor latex paint then begin the wash painting adding from lightest to darkest tones. 
For texture I never had much luck with the foil method so I used a pair of heavy rubber gloves and just built up sections where I wanted over the burlap base and used tools to etch, scratch or add depth to the cement before painting. 

Lately however I've used Dave Sheegog's method to build a Matterhorn like peak. ( google Castle Peak and Thunder RR) He used foam block covered with chicken wire then a Portland cement mixture caked over the top. He then used rubber molds like Bragdon carries to make details in the cement. 

Best wishes. Post pictures. I can if you'd like to see them. 

Paul H


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

John

Here's another MLS topic that you may find useful.

Mountains, Bridges and trestles[/b]


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ i live in canton ohio. I will give you a call tonight around 11:00 pm our time i think that will 8: pm your time.We can talk about the burlap/cement method


----------



## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ here are a few pictures of the burlap/cement process. Sorry but there are out of order but you can see the burlap in some pictures and see what the acid sprayed
on the cement in one picture looks like when it is wet. You can see a arch in the background and that is what the cement looks like when the acid is dry.


----------



## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

i don't know, if that helps, but here are some pics of a mountain made with the burlap method.
(only difference, i used plaster and crackfiller and later "painted" portland cement on it.


----------



## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

John,
My canyon, pictures attached, and my mountain/tunnel projects were both done with the burlap/cement over wire method.
I don't have the build sequence posted on line anymore because of limited space in the photo albums.
For what it's worth.
Rick


----------

