# Steam program needs a future home less than a year



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

I f interested one could donate and get a tax deduction...less than a year until vacate the old home...

Did you know that ORHF must vacate its Brooklyn Yard Roundhouse by the end of 2011? That means that the *SP 4449, the SP&S 700, and the OR&N 197* will be without a protective roof over their collective massive rustable iron bodies. That means that there will be no shop to restore and maintain these three ORHF civic treasures. ORHF is in the middle of a fundraising campaign -- either big or small donations will make a difference. Please Join the effort -- All Aboard!


Engine house and shop


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Frankly I was really upset when the City of Los Angeles didn't want to house SP4449 here in L.A. **** that engine, in it's heyday went from L.A. to San Francisco and back again. NEVER got close to Portland! Now they want to remove from Brooklyn yard? Politicians have short memories. These locomotives need to be protected!









Let's get creative here folks! The City of Sacramento already has a world class railroad museum-The California State Railroad Museum! Why can't all three engines be brought down to Sacramento and housed at the museum AND protected from the elements while Portland decides what it can or cannot do!


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## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

I say bring her down to the San Francisco Bay Area and get her running between LA and SF again!
Russ


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Russ and Gary

Might be somewhat difficult to give consider to your solutions:








Portland City Council approved three agreements that will enable the Oregon Rail Heritage Foundation (ORHF) to move forward with plans for a new facility for the restoration and management of three historic steam locomotives.The agreements include approval of a loan of up to $1 million to assist ORHF in the purchase of land in the OMSI district of inner Southeast Portland for the new facility, as well as a management agreement with OHRF to operate and manage the locomotives and a formal memorandum of understanding which ensures the public benefit of the locomotives.Many people don’t know that* the City even owns steam locomotives*, or that they’re under the stewardship of Portland Parks & Recreation. In fact, Portland is the only city in the country that owns two operating steam locomotives, the Spokane, Portland & Seattle 700 and the Southern Pacific 4449. A third locomotive owned by the City, the Oregon Railway & Navigation 197, is currently being restored.


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 05 Feb 2011 06:24 PM

Russ and Gary

In fact, Portland is the only city in the country that owns two operating steam locomotives, the Spokane, Portland & Seattle 700 and the Southern Pacific 4449. 


Charles,
I have to argue with that statement. The Huckleberry railroad is owned and operated by the Genesee County Parks (Flint, Michigan) it is the owner of two working locomotives. The K-27 (#454) and the Baldwin 4-6-0 (#2).

http://www.geneseecountyparks.org/pages/huckleberry


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Fred
Seems as if the town council needs to get their facts in order. Hopefully, Portland can manage the project better than their by line...
Good to see you posting!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Would this be a bad time to point out that the Cumbres and Toltec is jointly owned by the States of Colorado and New Mexico...


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

To add to Murphy's response, 
Would this be a bad time to point out that the Cass Scenic Railroad with all its Shays, Heisler and Climax engines is owned by the state of West Virginia and are run in a state park.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Good of everyone to put a plug in for their favorite or interests. I guess there is a need to distinguish the steam program at Portland with hopes they can keep it going....cross country (not just local, regional etc) few programs still operate without corporate support (UP). Without a home to continue the maintenance the engines would be out in the cold or on static display if the equipment and work area was not available which was the focus of the post.


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bring 'em to SteamTown PA! Increase the operating roster from 2 to 4! (with 3 more in process).


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

S-4: You would never be able to run the GS-4 or the E-1 #700 at Scranton, since their loading gauge is too large for Northeastern trackage. The 4449 is far too tall to fit through most eastern tunnels and bridges, as was demonstrated with the American Freedom Train, where it could go no further north than Manassas, VA and was certainly limited on passable trackage there as well. When MILW 261 was brought over in 1995-96 for the Grand Opening it could not traverse some of the trackage in the yard (nevermind that it couldn't fit on the turntable), so that idea, although tempting is far from practical. 

Those who are reading the fine print: 

You are missing the point! It is well known that there are other states/counties that own locomotives, but few cities own locomotives that are able to traverse the country at mainline speeds, and I would hazard a guess that none of the others are at risk of being evicted from their home by the end of this year. 

The 4449, 700 and 197 deserve the support from railfans and enthusiasts across the country, not a dispute over a single unchecked statement that may possibly get the new facility done that much faster. 

I hold no affiliation with the ORHF or any of the other groups, but rest assured, my donation has been made and it feels good to have contributed to giving these engines a new home.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

And you're right, Ryan. Just curious, how did it come about that they have to leave their current facility? Are they talking about building a new facility (expensive) or purchasing/leasing space elsewhere? I'm quite certain that since they're owned by Portland, that they wouldn't want to move them somewhere else, to another part of the country, so those suggestions are probably moot. 

Back on topic! Or is that "Back on track?" 

Robert


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm probably going to make myself unpopular but I don't contribute to projects without a suitable plan in place, _especially civic ones!! _It has been my experience that money given to projects _without a proper plan in place _generally wasted! The city owns these engines. The city leaders need to decide if they are going to properly manage "their" priceless resource! Until they can adequately answer that question, I'm afraid my answer will have to be, "Sorry, no can do." I already am committed to helping with the continued operations of the Colorado RR Museum and the Ridgway RR Museum as well as their respective restorations. Neither are civic owned or operated but both _do _have perusable plans for continued operations as well as restorations. Let's see what your civic leaders decide to do and maybe then we can revisit this discussion. I do wish you the best of luck! As I said, these are priceless assets and I sincerely hope that your civic leaders understand that. Considering, it would seem, that these engines are to be relegated to the dubious security of the outdoors let alone the elements and their deleterious effects without the benefit of a working machine shop, that hope may be in vain...


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

For those who appreciate one of the finest steam locomotives in operation and wish to become educated about making a contribution:

[*]The taxpayers of Portland and their city council arranged a $1 million dollar loan to get the project started (not bad considering this time and era regarding budgets)[*]Read....their is a set plan and action is already started but the total cost of $3+ million will take a larger support group, those among steam enthusiasts that treasure the opportunity to continue one of the nation's best steam programs:[/list]

More information-

ORHF Newsletter 


I know that the experience not long ago both riding behind 4449 along with the opportunity to interact with the crew was one that brought our "playing with toys" to reality (interactive not static as in museum). So, those who wish a continuation of this steam program will contribute others will make contributions as they see fit...




Can't get any more involved with the general population than the event(s) this program is involved with.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles,

My check went out yesterday for this project. I had a high school buddy who was one of Doyle McCormick's assistants in the cab on the 1976 Freedom Train. He passed away in 1985 from cancer. The check was made in his memory.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

As I understand it, the locomotives are owned by the city of Portland, but are leased from the city and are maintained and operated by private organizations. These organizations have come together under the umbrella of the ORHF in order to establish a permanent home from which to operate the locomotives and set it up as a publicly accessible museum. Their current space in the Brooklyn Roundhouse is leased from the Union Pacific, and is located in the middle of a UP yard with no public access. UP plans to tear down the roundhouse to expand an intermodal facility in the yard. I think part of the ORHF plan, or one proposal anyway, was to dismantle and rebuild the existing roundhouse on the new property.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dismantling and rebuilding roundhouses has been done successfully in the past. 

The home of the Steam Whistle Brewery in Toronto was an old roundhouse. It was disassembled so that a hole could be dug for an underground parking facility, and then re-built on the same location. 

If you think this does not make economic sense, just for a parking facility, you have never paid for parking in downtown Toronto.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ahh....thanks for the clarification! That link was very informative! I was under the mistaken impression that nothing concrete had been done. This is much further along (and more ambitious) than I had realized! I think I might be able to send a contribution after all!


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