# Phoenix sound battery



## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a older sound with the 6 volt battery. I don't use it much, and the battery it dead.
Can I use 4 AA rechargeable batteries?


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I have done that, although I always make sure that the chemistry is the same as the Phoenix one (ie. ni-cad or ni-mh). Since my locomotives are all battery powered, I have also used a 12 volt voltage regulator to supply 12 volts from my main batteries to provide the voltage. It has been quite a while since I've done this, as all of my recent purchases have been the P8 that doesn't require a battery. I'm pretty sure the reason I used the 12V regulator (instead of 6 volt) is that the board can handle that voltage on those leads.

Ed

In looking at one of my old 2K2 manuals, it says that the battery is a 3.6 volt ni-cad battery, but that the battery voltage can be up to 20 volts. But, the board will only charge a 3.6 volt ni-cad battery. Hope this helps.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

ED,

It's a Power Patrol SLA 0846 6v 500 mah 
I see it's acid battery so I guess ni-cads won't work.

Don


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Don, You might want to give Phoenix a call on the phone. They are VERY helpful. Your board must be quite old, as I don't recall them using lead acid batteries at least when I was using them. They will provide you with all the info you need though.

Ed


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 18 Nov 2012 08:59 AM 
ED,

It's a Power Patrol SLA 0846 6v 500 mah 
I see it's acid battery so I guess ni-cads won't work.

Don 


I simply replace the ones in my Sierras (similar) with thee supercaps in series. Now I never worry about charging the battery. I've now done this to a couple Sierras with no detremental effects. Try it on the Phoenix at your own risk.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

When idling with the 3 supercaps, how long do you have sound??? Sounds like a nice solution.

Ed


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By eheading on 18 Nov 2012 02:20 PM 
When idling with the 3 supercaps, how long do you have sound??? Sounds like a nice solution.

Ed


At 2 farads (three 6 Farad, 2.7 volt caps in series ), I get ~1:15 - 1:45 depening on the volume level. Caps will discharge over time if you continue to run at under ~8 volts. And of course you have no "spool up" of the sound when starting out from a discharged cap. The sound will come on at ~8-9 volts to the rails with a couple "whoops."


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I like using super caps, install once and they do not corrode connections as they discharge fairly quickly and I have some engines I store for months at a time.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Soooo what do I need to get rid of the 6 volt battery?? How do you hook it up?

Don


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

google super caps? 

http://www.karlssonrobotics.com/shop/super-capacitor-10f2-5v/?gclid=CMepnYyL6bMCFaN_Qgod01sAhg 

Hook in series, plus to minus... 

Todd, have you checked to see what the Phoenix limits the max voltage to the "battery" to? 

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 24 Nov 2012 07:38 PM 
google super caps? 

http://www.karlssonrobotics.com/shop/super-capacitor-10f2-5v/?gclid=CMepnYyL6bMCFaN_Qgod01sAhg 

Hook in series, plus to minus... 

Todd, have you checked to see what the Phoenix limits the max voltage to the "battery" to? 

Greg 
No, which is why I stated, "Try it on the Phoenix at your own risk."


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 24 Nov 2012 03:17 PM 
Soooo what do I need to get rid of the 6 volt battery?? How do you hook it up?

Don 


I simply orderd ten 6 farad, 2.7 volt (2.85 max) caps off the 'bay and put three in series for each sound board. Connect the positive lead to where you took the positive from the battery and do the same with the negative lead. You can either remove the charge jack, or not, as you will never use it again but it does no harm, assuming that your charger does not charge at a rate higher than 8.5 volts if you ever plug it in. I found the Sierra charger put out about 1 volt more than the sound board does, but was still just within the range of the caps.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

According to what I read, the 2K2 with the ni-cad battery could handle a battery up to 20 volts, but of course it would rarely keep that charged up. As time went on their battery got lower and lower in voltage so that it would be charged more of the time when running. Again, though, I would give Phoenix a call. That way you'll get the REAL information.

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ed, the question is what voltage is produced by the charging circuit to the battery, not the track voltage. 

Normally a 6 volt gel cell is charged at about .75 to maybne 1.5 volts over the nominal 6 volts. 

The "capacitor" needs to have a voltage capability over that, they are remarkably intolerant of over voltage. (blow up.. remember the Aristo ones that went pop?)(of course they were wired backwards from the factory) 

Anyway, you can measure the voltage yourself, run the power up over 12 volts to the supply, then measure the voltage to the battery (with the battery out of circuit) 

Give yourself some safety margin. 

Greg


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