# Distilled Water unavailable



## steamhostler (Jan 1, 2022)

I have searched all 5 available grocery chain stores in the Metro area, and none of them carry Distilled Water in 1 gallon jugs on their shelves.

So I went to Walmart.com to see if I could buy some and pick it up at my local Walmart, NOPE its not available in stores.

However, I can have a case of 6 - 1 gallon jugs shipped directly to my house. Cheapest price is $51.27 with "free shipping"!!!

That works out to $8.55 a gallon!!! Waaay more (so far) than cost per gallon of Gasoline! What is this World coming to???

Can't wait to see the price of canned Butane at the local Korean grocery store...


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hello,
Sorry but I don't know which 'Metro' area you are referring to.
Is this happening everywhere in the US?
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Seattle had a problem last fall, but is OK on water now...


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## steamhostler (Jan 1, 2022)

Sorry David, Metro area of Colorado Springs, CO with 800,000 population

Jim, I hope this sorts itself out by Springtime...


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

David Leech said:


> Hello,
> Sorry but I don't know which 'Metro' area you are referring to.
> Is this happening everywhere in the US?
> Regards,
> David Leech, Delta, Canada


Bay Area also. 

Robert


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

steamhostler said:


> I have searched all 5 available grocery chain stores in the Metro area, and none of them carry Distilled Water in 1 gallon jugs on their shelves.
> 
> So I went to Walmart.com to see if I could buy some and pick it up at my local Walmart, NOPE its not available in stores.
> 
> ...


I just ordered from Amazon Fresh at $1.19/Gallon.

Amazon.com

Robert


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## steamhostler (Jan 1, 2022)

Robert, you must have got the last of it because it is listed as unavailable now...


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

steamhostler said:


> Robert, you must have got the last of it because it is listed as unavailable now...


I was limited to 2 gallons but it still showing as available. One note: it says distilled on the bottle but the Amazon description says reverse osmosis and advanced filtration. I have a reverse osmosis faucet in the kitchen with a secondary filter which suggests I can do the equivalent at much lower cost. 

Robert


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## steamhostler (Jan 1, 2022)

This is what shows on that link above;


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

What about using the water from a dehumidifier?


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

No problems getting distilled water in coastal Maryland and Virginia.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

steamhostler said:


> This is what shows on that link above;
> 
> View attachment 63170


Still showing available here in CA


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## Jeff Williams (Jan 8, 2008)

These must be highly localized shortages. I live in the San Francisco East Bay area. There was a full shelf of distilled water at my local Safeway store this morning. Two different brands (Arrowhead and Safeway house brand) if one is selective.


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

You shouldn't be using distilled water anyway - if you use it in some high end coffee machines - you will invalidate the warranty.

Pure distilled water is neutral in theory (pH=7). However it’s highly reactive and as soon as it comes in contact with the atmosphere it starts absorbing carbon dioxide, which turns it acidic, with a pH value that can be below 6.

Just google "Is distilled water corrosive to metal"


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Well, you definatly dont want to use the tap water where I live. Its very hard and makes a mess out of faucets and so forth. Our local Walmart was low but had distilled water along with other various water in stock. So what water do you use John? Many in the states do not have the ability to collect much rain water.


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## John 842 (Oct 1, 2015)

Mike Toney said:


> ...... So what water do you use John? ......


Deionized water - with 5% tap water added to quench it's desire to recover it's lost ions.

Sure, the downside is you get a small amount of scaling - but it's only 5% of what it would be without the deionized water and I've never had to descale a boiler or sight glass in 20 odd years.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

It was always published Not to use deionized as it was known to cause issues with certain metals and solders used to build boilers. I have never had issues with distilled water, with a little tap water in my old brass boilers once and awhile as a very light lime scale helps protect the brass a bit. And this is over 20 years worth of steaming with both copper and brass boilers in gauge O and gauge 1. I have never used deionized or straight tap water and never will. Never had boiler issues either running the distilled water we have here in the USA


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought I would try to get to the bottom of the distilled versus de-ionised versus reverse osmosis (RO) versus straight from the faucet debate. After a few hours going down the Google rabbit hole, I don't think I am much the wiser.

What I have concluded is that there are different techniques to purify water and which one you choose is largely irrelevant. Distilled v De-Ionised v RO refers to the techniques used to achieve purity, not the end result. 

The real issue is the level of purity as ultra pure water (or UPW in the vernacular) is an aggressive solvent that will attack any metallic container. For a steam engine (or kettle for that matter), the two problematic contaminants are Calcium and Magnesium Bicarbonate as these will precipitate out to form scale when water evaporates through boiling.. I'm sure there are others, but these are the two mainly seen in drinking water. Removing these or 'softening' the water is what we are trying to achieve. 

So the bottom line - if you live in an area with naturally soft water, then water from the faucet/tap is probably fine. If you live in a area where your kettle or steam iron needs to be de-scaled periodically, then distilled/de-ionized/RO water should be used but maybe diluted with a little drinking water to 'de-purify' it although I doubt that stuff we find at our local supermarkets hits the UPW threshold. 

I know there are strong opinions of this, so just my point of view.

Robert.


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## tommy98466 (Dec 27, 2007)

Why don't you just make your own distilled water. 
The process of distilling is simple. *Heat tap water to the point that it turns to vapor.* *When the vapor condenses back to water, it leaves behind any mineral residue*. The resulting condensed liquid is distilled water. Viola, and its free.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

The difference between distilled and de-ionized water is significant. Water wants to break up into a hydrogen ion and a hydroxide ion. Labs that need de-ionized water have to periodically have their water de-ionized as it is not a stable condition.

Distilled water is very stable. It is not a problem to use it (as far as I am aware). 

When I got started in live steam I was given a bottle of de-ionized water. I just dropped a penny into it and it "magically" became distilled water.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you support this statement: "The difference between distilled and de-ionized water is significant " I think you are incorrect.

Both steam distillation and de ionization purify water, mostly to remove dissolved salts (calcium, magnesium, etc.) (also removal of organics is important for people who need sterile water)

Water is H2O, there is nothing different between water molecules in distilled or de-ionized water. You statement implies a difference.

Both have an affinity for ions, i.e. metals or other reactive atoms.

de-ionization is cheaper than steam extraction... not we are not talking reverse osmosis here, which is another water purification technique, but far short of de-i or distilled water.

google: "difference between di-ionized and distilled water" .... get past the water salespeople (although they have it right also)

Greg


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## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

Well, We can't run here in Michigan because the Temp is 20 Degrees, But We have distilled water @ At Myers it is .89 cents a gallon. and Krogers has it for .82 cents a gallon. The shelf is Full.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Oh you can run at that time Bob, but its not much fun on our bodies. I have run at 3' F with no wind and the smoke plume hung halfway around my layout on each lap in the really cold, still air. But I raised steam with the engine sitting on the island in the kitchen. Winter steaming is best done with alcohol or coal fired engines.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

De-ionized water is chemically neutral. In the school lab they needed this for some of the reactions to work properly. Distilled water is chemically pure, particularly if it has been double or triple distilled. This is better for copper boilers.

De-ionized water will try to reach a more stable state. In the chem lab they had to have their supply de-ionized at regular intervals. This is why it is more reactive with the boilers. It is like 200 proof alcohol, won't stay in that state for long. That is why I put a penny in the bottle.

Distilled water is better as it only attacks the boiler with water ions, which are very slow acting.

To get an idea of the difference in the two methods you can check this site: comparison

At least that is what I understand. So as far as our little steam engines go there is a significant difference.


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

If De-Ionized water is so bad how come some of my model loco's have been running for up to 40 years without any problems.

Strange.

DougieL


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Water is H2O, there is nothing different between water molecules in distilled or de-ionized water. You statement implies a difference.
> 
> Both have an affinity for ions, i.e. metals or other reactive atoms.
> 
> ...


100% agree but this is a subject so entwined with myth and legend that logic will never win. 

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ironton, that site you referenced starts with the statement:

Deionized water and Distilled water are both types of extremely pure water, but they are produced in two distinctly different way .

You just disproved your statement that distilled water and de-ionized water are different. They are not. You could take either (in their highest state of purification) and not be able to tell the difference, there would ONLY be hydrogen and oxygen atoms in the molecule H20

which further reinforces my question: show me where someone authoritative states they are different.

Pure water is pure water, just as simple as that. No matter how it is purified, it will have an affinity for ions, i.e. to leach out ions from materials, usually metals.

Normally, for us humans, what we can buy in the store, steam distilled water tends to be more pure than the de-ionized water...

But either can be increased in purity, and by different methods. 

Greg


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## Mark V (Aug 10, 2021)

steamhostler said:


> I have searched all 5 available grocery chain stores in the Metro area, and none of them carry Distilled Water in 1 gallon jugs on their shelves.
> 
> So I went to Walmart.com to see if I could buy some and pick it up at my local Walmart, NOPE its not available in stores.
> 
> ...


It's hard to find here in Northern Ohio also. I had to go to Menards to pick up mine. I use it in my room dehumidifier, as specified by the mgr. I also recently had sinus surgery and have to flush my noise out with distilled water and salt twice a day for a few more months. 
Oh well....
Mark


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## trainmax (Feb 16, 2008)

steamhostler said:


> I have searched all 5 available grocery chain stores in the Metro area, and none of them carry Distilled Water in 1 gallon jugs on their shelves.
> 
> So I went to Walmart.com to see if I could buy some and pick it up at my local Walmart, NOPE its not available in stores.
> 
> ...


Yep it was a problem here too don’t know what’s going on with the distilled water we luck out and found some at a local store in Diamondhead Ms for the steamup. The big Ross’s here did not have any.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder if it is just the logistics problems. My local supermarket is out of stuff it commonly carries for weeks at a time - like Corn Flakes or vanilla yogurt. Apparently shippers and truckers get covid too.


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## steamhostler (Jan 1, 2022)

I think its more like Covid problems at the point of Distillation, as the big chain stores don't have enough in their warehouses to supply every store.
My local Sprouts store emailed me they had an order finally come in, and when I rushed down there they were limiting it to 3 gallon jugs per customer.
The next day the shelves were bare...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Luckily I have two steam distillers at home, each makes a gallon in a few hours. I'd use them if I ran live steam, after adding a little "food" for the water to reduce it's appetite for solder.

Greg


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## Don Howard (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Luckily I have two steam distillers at home, each makes a gallon in a few hours. I'd use them if I ran live steam, after adding a little "food" for the water to reduce it's appetite for solder.
> 
> Greg


I'd like to know about the "food" you add.
Please clarify for us relative newbes
Thanks


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As recommended, a bit of tap water will help, and is easiest. Each person has his favorite.

Again, many people do this to distilled or deionized water.

I would probably go overboard and measure the conductivity. It only take a tiny bit of sodium, magnesium or calcium to do this.

Greg


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> As recommended, a bit of tap water will help, and is easiest. Each person has his favorite.
> 
> Again, many people do this to distilled or deionized water.
> 
> ...


Regner actually recommend this 'addition'. Mind you, their boilers are brass, a material that some find less than optimum for a live-steamer.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can definitely leach ions from brass. Copper is more resistant.

Greg


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

I'm lucky where I live (Ottawa Ontario) to have VERY soft water so use the tap water in my engines. The last electric kettle I had I used daily for 25 years and when it quit I could still see my reflection in the plated element in the bottom of it. That was all the proof I need.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Appears to be a localized supply issue....a friend in the northern Virginia area has had difficulty with shelves remaining bare of distilled water at his local grocery...yet yesterday a quick visit to our local store here in Cary, North Carolina showed no less than 2 brands with a total of over 30 gallons on the shelf.

We bought 15 gallons and have them staged in the spare room for delivery to our needy live steam friends during upcoming meets...(feels like I'm running a food pantry for live steamers...HaHa)


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

GaugeOneLines said:


> I'm lucky where I live (Ottawa Ontario) to have VERY soft water so use the tap water in my engines. The last electric kettle I had I used daily for 25 years and when it quit I could still see my reflection in the plated element in the bottom of it. That was all the proof I need.


Here in our part of UK we go through a Brita water filter unit about every ten days. To get water pure enough for my steam locos I put water straight out of the faucet and into the distiller unit. A few hours later, I have about a gallon of water I can use in my steam locos. The crud in the bottom of the water container is a thick, sludgy brown gloop that looks like demon snot.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Our residue here (steam distillation) looks light yellow, and the consistency of wd40


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Our residue here (steam distillation) looks light yellow, and the consistency of wd40


I'm not talking about the residue found in the steam oil lubricator, I'm talking about the gloop left in the water reservoir of the distiller unit.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, understood that, as I replied with (steam distillation) in my reply to show I was comparing apples to apples.

Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Has anyone checked their local drug stores? They usually carry distilled water.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight Ennis said:


> Has anyone checked their local drug stores? They usually carry distilled water.


Tried yesterday - local Walgreens and Rite Aid (Bay Area) - no luck. Safeway has plenty of "spring" water, but no distilled.

Robert


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## big-ted (Sep 30, 2012)

Have any of you checked into the hardness of your local tap water? Depending on where you live, it may be perfectly fine:







Map of water hardness in the United States | U.S. Geological Survey







www.usgs.gov





Where I live, my typical water hardness is 2.4-6mg/l. I have a stove top kettle that gets used 2-3 times a day. I've had it about 8 years. I MIGHT have cleaned it out once, but I honestly can't remember. It's still perfectly clear inside. I've zero qualms about using my local tap water in my locomotives. If I'm traveling out of my local area, I take a large bottle with me.


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

big-ted said:


> Have any of you checked into the hardness of your local tap water? Depending on where you live, it may be perfectly fine:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought a cheap ($15) hardness meter. Distilled water (Whole Foods) measures 4 ppm. Water from the RO filter in the kitchen measure 12 ppm. Water from the regular faucet measures 217 ppm. 

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So 1 mg/liter = 1 ppm, so big-ted, your average hardness (about 4) was the same as Robert's distilled water. The specs for "user" distilled water are 2-4 ppm.

So Big-Ted: start selling and shipping water! You are a lucky guy.

Here in san diego, our recycled water is about 100-130 ppm, but our desalinization plant is about 6,000 !!! (and from the water report, cannot figure out what it is caused by)



https://www.carlsbadca.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/178/637606488954170000



weird, but there it is... we are the last stop in the water supply before you hit mexico... we get the worst water.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I have RO water with a 0 TDS but its not distilled. Distilled water is still readily available here in NJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, but we were talking hardness... do you know the hardness?


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## GusS (Sep 15, 2015)

I receive a daily emailing from a magazine called CNET. Last week they happened to have an article on making distilled water at home, if anyone is interested. Luckily I haven't had an issue in finding distilled water, and hopefully never will. Here is the link to the article.
Stop Buying Distilled Water and Make It for Free. Here's How

Hope this helps.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Funny article, "make for free"..... well only if you get natural gas for free!

very inefficient, buy a regular distiller... (how do I know inefficient? how much heat is going into the air? wasted energy. How much steam is escaping (clearly it's not a pressure vessel) wasted energy too) not giving you a hard time Gus, but the author of that article has a very different definition of free ha ha!

(if you log into CNet, you can see the 85 comments that say bulls**t on the "free" part, but they don't show the comments if you don't join Cnet... wow.

Here's the way:

















Amazon.com: Mophorn Pure Water Distiller 750W, Purifier Filter Fully Upgraded with Handle 1.1 Gal /4L, BPA Free Container, Perfect for Home Use, White : Home & Kitchen


Buy Mophorn Pure Water Distiller 750W, Purifier Filter Fully Upgraded with Handle 1.1 Gal /4L, BPA Free Container, Perfect for Home Use, White: Pitcher Water Filters - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com





Makes a gallon at a time, I have 2 of them (emergency supply for disaster prep). I used to use for making coffee, until I understood the dangers of drinking distilled water and what it can also do to coffee makers.

Greg


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## GNSteamer (Jan 16, 2008)

Steam distilled water can be found at drug stores in the pediatric section as well as the water/beverage aisles at local Target stores.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Funny article, "make for free"..... well only if you get natural gas for free!
> 
> very inefficient, buy a regular distiller... (how do I know inefficient? how much heat is going into the air? wasted energy. How much steam is escaping (clearly it's not a pressure vessel) wasted energy too) not giving you a hard time Gus, but the author of that article has a very different definition of free ha ha!
> 
> ...


I also have two of these VERY useful devices - got them both in a one-time deal for $100 [converted from £] including shipping. Here in our part of East Anglia, the water comes out of the faucets in lumps. Our Brita filters last around 8 - 9 days..........


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