# Weed Killing



## GnTRailroad (Apr 3, 2009)

I put in my Garden railway 2 years ago and have been fighting those darn weeds the seeds must get into my ballast and then look out!
I was thinking about sprauing with Roundup but have been leary spraying in on the track. Has anybody used Roundup or other products?

Thanks,
George


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## GnTRailroad (Apr 3, 2009)

Never mind, I found the other article on Page 2 guess I should read the enttire forum before posting! 

Thanks, 
George


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, roundup works, and is expensive, but it kills the plant to the root, not just burning off the top part and letting it regrow from the root. 

The active ingredient is gylpto-something, and you can buy that stuff as a generic product for a lot less. 

No problems on the track... it's water-soluble, so after it sinks into the weeds, you can water and rinse off the track if you want, like a day or so later. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*You guys crack me up with spending all this money on chemicals for weeds, all you need to do is to put ordinary table salt on the area and water it in and in a couple of days there gone fore the year. i used this trick on all my side walk cracks and it works great. i learned this cheep trick years ago when my grandmother was alive...







if you pour it on the ballest and water it in they should be gone, dont be affraid of it pour it rite on its cheep.*


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Roundup®=Monsanto's trademark name for glyphosate. Patent expired, so now marketed under other names. Concentration % varies all over the place, so pay attention to that, not only the price. Home Depot's store brand was the best value I found in my last shopping trip. I've found glyphosate is about the only thing that will kill Bermuda grass (the other thing is intense heat from a campfire, but that technique doesn't lend itself well to garden railways!).


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

The table salt is an excellent idea, that my grandmother used as well. There is a more natural product other than the Roundup types. It's natural clove. I cannot recall the tradename just now, but it is available at better garden centers. If anyone remembers Clove chewing gum, you'll know exactly what smell I'm talking about. It takes slightly longer than Roundup. And it won't kill the frogs and toads!


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Although Roundup is a good chemical to kill the weeds once they are up, make sure you do not allow it to get into your pond by washing into it, as it will kill your fish. To prevent the germination of weeds, you can use a pre-emerge such as Preen, a granular, which you spread on the area, and no seeds will come up. It may take two or three applications to get complete year long control.


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## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

Salt will kill the weeds, but keep in mind that salt will leach out into the soil, and if you get an abundance in an area, you can also kill off other plants that you don't want to lose. Using a total kill herbicide (like Round-up) will work well. These are contact kills, so they don't have leaching tendancies. Once you get your weeds under control, a pre-emergent (like Mike suggests) is an excellent way to go. 

Good luck


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

RoundUp dry packs $20 for 5 gallons worth - http://www.amleo.com/index/item.cgi?cmd=view&Words=ruq15 
Just provide your own sprayer. It won't harm your track. 

-Brian


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Be careful with Roundup. It will spread out and kill things you don't want to kill.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, that is just not true... it kills only what it contacts and you have to get enough on the leaves to travel into the plant's system. 

It never spreads, and in fact decomposes on the ground after a few months. 

But, if you spray it and get overspray everywhere... or do not let it soak in and then spray plants with water, then you can have problems, like any other situation with any other herbicide. 

Not trying to be confrontive, but I've used the stuff for about 30 years, it does not spread... in fact, it's a common problem to miss some plants... just use a heavy spray, not a fine mist. 

Regards, Greg


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I agree with Jerry if you use Roundup and it rains around the time you spray it it WILL get into areas you do not want it to.
Better to use it when there is no chance of rain for a couple of days or watering to soon after spraying it..being careful how you spray it.

One of my nurses suggested using "Preen", in very early spring, almost very tail end of winter..anyway putting it down heavy to kill any thing that hasn't come up yet...which I think is how it works....doesn't work on weeds already there.

I used to have trouble with a very hearty weed that is ugly AND it grew EVERYWHERE, looked like an octopus, between track which is the hardest to pull out, BUT I don't know what it is and haven't taken one in for identification YET, anyway I used "Preen" last year and I'll be darned, they didn't get out of hand as previous years..I very rarely had to pull them from anyplace, or any weed for that matter! I followed it by a couple of light applications throught out the summer. 

SOOO this year I put down a very harty application of "Preen" again....I am expecting not to have to spend a lot of time using Roundup, pulling or anything, EXCEPT an occasional pulling of a weed or two!

Give "Preen" a try..can get it at Wal-Mart, Sam's Club in larger sizes, what I like is the applicator that is inherant in the container it comes in...keep the Roundup as back up for larger peskeir areas that precision is not a concern. 


Salt is better used for seasoning. 

IMHO

Bubba


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The roundup instructions are real specific about spraying it so it gets into the plant. In the last 30 years I have sprayed it within 4 inches of other plants without harming them, but I never spray when there is a chance of rain, and also you spray during the time of day when the plants "want" moisture. 

All I wanted to state is that roundup is no different than any other herbicide in that you have to spray it only on what you want to kill. It is very effective in that it will kill the weed to the root, not just "knock it back". 

The pre-emergent stuff is a great idea, because it's the only thing that get 'em before they get a start. 

One disadvantage of Roundup is that it's visual effect can take a couple of weeks, as the chemical works it's way to the root. Sometimes people think it's not working and weed wack the top of the weed, and then the stuff never gets to the root... then they say Roundup does not work. 

That happened to me at my grandparent's place, thought I was the "good grandson" by bringing this cool hi-tech stuff to help the weed problem my grandfather always had. I'd spray on a weekend, but my grandfather said the stuff did not work... I could not figure it out, so sprayed extra heavy next time... still does not work... then spend a week there... I sprayed... and the next day, my grandfather chopped all the heads off the weeds... so the chemical never got to work... it was a long process to get him to wait so it could work... once he saw it, he was convinced, but it was a real head scratcher for a while! 

Regards, Greg


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Careful use of any chemical is a must but RoundUp does not spread. It is possible for passive transfer to happen if two root systems are greatly intertwined. I have never seen that happen. Soil bacteria breakdown glyphosate in a few days to a week. 
I have easily used over a 100 gallons of RoundUp over the years. I have never killed a plant I did not want to kill. I don't spray if it is windy or rain is in the forecast. I don't spray around my pond and we have no shortage of toads and frogs around here. Actually, we get so many tree frogs at night you have to close the windows because of the racket. 

-Brian


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

You know, all this talk about killing weeds? One surefire way of not abusing any chemicals unintentionally or otherwise is to Just get down on your hands and knees and pull the GD things out of the ground.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And of course they come right back up in the same spot. Weeds are "designed" to have the foliage be pulled off and the root stay so it can regrow. Yeah, I always wondered why it was so much easier to kill the "good" plants... My uncle was a botanist, and he explained all the special stuff that weeds have to make them survive... 

Nothing is ever easy or simple... 

Regards, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

As far as herbicides go Glyphosate [Round Up] is considered very safe because it has no activity in the soil, contact to green foliage only. Off brands can now be purchased at a savings because the patent has expired. We use 100's of gallons a season, spraying around thousands of trees. Fine spray and wind can lead to disaster. But used properly is a very useful chemical. We tank mix it with Surflan for post and premerge control. On the other hand salt can be very dangerous, it can kill everything in the area, move thru the soil and last for quite some time. Use only if you want to kill everything in the area and keep it dead for a while. That may be the case in some instances.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

One word: urine.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Another thought of mine................*Agent Orange*. I know it first hand. Correct me if I am not correct, but are the weed killers today in any way related to the big *A O*


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Be advised that RoundUp comes in a versions that DOES stay in the ground. One version of RoundUp contains a pre-emergent in it which kills seeds from the plant for up to 4 months after application as well as the glyphosate that kills the living plant right after application. I like this version for keeping weeds under control in areas where I have bark or gravel ground cover. It really works.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, that's a nice all in one mix.. I noticed you can also get it with something that burns the foliage right away... since their patent went out, they need to get more creative I guess. 

Regards, Greg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

As I understand, the big problem with Agent Orange was some of it was contaminated with dioxin. Other than that, I don't know what it was.


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

I pull weeds by hand, making sure to pinch the plant near the ground and take it out roots and all -- not rocket science. Instant, efficient, eco-friendly, cheap, really doesn't take that much time and is simply a part of the hobby as far as I'm concerned. You can do it while watching the trains go around, instead of sitting on your butt.











Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04/10/2009 11:24 AM
And of course they come right back up in the same spot. Weeds are "designed" to have the foliage be pulled off and the root stay so it can regrow. Yeah, I always wondered why it was so much easier to kill the "good" plants... My uncle was a botanist, and he explained all the special stuff that weeds have to make them survive... 

Nothing is ever easy or simple... 

Regards, Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've pulled them while watching the trains, or more embarrassingly, when a visitor is over, and the train brushes the weed as it goes by! 

But there are many weeds designed to leave a bit of the root behind. Also, not everyone's soil is conducive to pulling weeds. Spraying is way less time, costs more. You pay for convenience. 

By the way, I walk around with my trains most of the time. 

Regards, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04/10/2009 9:39 AM
The roundup instructions are real specific about spraying it so it gets into the plant. In the last 30 years I have sprayed it within 4 inches of other plants without harming them, but I never spray when there is a chance of rain, and also you spray during the time of day when the plants "want" moisture. 





If you spray the vegetation (ground cover) along the track, it will spread though the root system and kill the ground cover well away from the rails. To avoid this, I use a wide putty knife plunged into the soil just beyond the ballast to break the root connection. Then (typically) only the stuff at the rails dies.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I have 5/6 of a container of Roundup that hasn't worked for about a year now. The pumper/sprayer won't spray.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Of course, at the Botanic, I just let the horticulturists worry about the weeds


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Torby, speaking of dioxins. I looked up Agent Orange last night and found a web page full of very disturbing photos of the effects of it. You would think being a Vietnam vet I would know all there is to know about A.O. Truth is, I've generally avoided the subject over all of these years.


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## lurch (Dec 27, 2007)

I use white vinegar and a little dish soap. Works for me.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I have an airplane fly over.


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## imrnjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I use several different weed/brush killers on the ranch and in the yard because they don't all work on every plant.

RoundUp or Glyphosphates were developed for grassy weed control in farm fields and do not work on plants that have woody stalks (cotton). It does work quite well on grasses and a large number of common weeds. MSMA is a broadleaf weed and coarse grass (crab, Dallas, Johnson) killer that is considered safe to use on southern turf grasses ( bermuda, buffalo,etc.), though it will burn them a little. 2-4,D works on most everything but is really hard on turf grasses when used at strengths high enough to really kill the weeds. Remedy/Reclaim/Milestone are weed and brush killers for pasture and farm lands that work on both broadleafs, thisles, brushy plants (mesquite, blackthorn,etc.). There are some that I have access to that are not available to the general public that are plant specific (Surmount, Tordon) that are very good on cactus, and brushy cover.

Some of these products are really expensive (Reclaim $240/gal of concentrate), but all of them can be purchased over the counter, but *None* of them work if the directions are not followed!! I don't recommend keeping the mixed product over 6 months, even then, the mix needs to be agitated/stirred thoroughly before use. I also don't recommend the premix in the hand pump sprayers. The mix is fine, the sprayer is crap!







Get a good hudson/solo one gallon or 3 gallon sprayer, get the concentrate and mix what you need to use. Clean the sprayer with full strength ammonia and a little dish soap.

Personally I don't mix herbicide sprayers and fertilizer spayers for the garden. The sprayers are too cheap and that way I never make the mistake of thinking I cleaned it andthen go about my merry way killing the roses or the lawn thinking that with this dose of fertilizer my wife is gonna let me by that Big Boy this week end!!!









I probably put down 100 gallons of 4% Reclaim/Remedy last year killing out regrowth mesquite, 225 gallons of Pramitol 25E and 4% Roundup clearing roads, barn pads and 100 gallons of MSMA based product on Johnson grass in my pasture, and will most likely do it again this year. Nature is remarkably stubborn when it comes to regrowth.

Mark


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty,plane size, 1:20 or 1:29 or 1:32?

Is it the Red Baron?









tom h


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