# First impressions...NCE cab & new Aristo revo



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi guys,

I just wanted to share my first impressions on a couple of the new products:

Dropped in to AK's last night to see what was new & shoot the breeze, and they had an Aristo GP40 hooked up with the new NCE wireless cab and sound decoder (think it was a QSI). While the system seemed to work OK, that NCE throttle drove me absolutely nuts! I guess you'd get used to it after a while I didn't like the thumbwheel at all...guess I'm used to the Massoth dial, and the NCE just didn't seem intuitive compared to the Massoth. I can't imagine handing it to a 7 year and letting him loose with it without quite a bit of explanation. Anyway, aside from the throttle issue everything seemed to respond well. I didn't have the time to spend trying everything out, though, so my comments are really meant just a quick first impression, not meant as a review.
They apparently quickly sold out of all the Aristo Revo units, which according to everyone at the store that has tried them, have been received very favourably. I had to chuckle when one of the guys was so excited telling me how he could adjust the starting voltage, top speed, accel/decel etc.,( he'd never tried a DCC unit before so it was all new to him.) He was raving about the Aristo and had seven locomotives up and running with the receivers. The last time I was at the store I tried the Aristo handheld and again wasn't impressed compared to the Navigator...didn't like the cluttered screen and push buttons for throttle control. 
So at the end of the day, it confirmed that for me I was best off with the Navigator, but that every single application is different and has to evaluated independently to see which is the most suitable system for him/her. 
One other observation: as many of you might know, I run all LGB RhB stuff, but looking around AK's, I can't help thinking it really is a good time to be in G scale if you like the North American railways--the prices on the diesels and rolling stock are incredible--$49 (Cdn!) for a beautiful Canadian G scale Trains boxcar with steel wheels. Compare that to a two axle RhB car which is hard to find for less than $125. If they ever come out with a CN comfort cab with sergeant stripes....

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: First impressions...NCE cab & new Aristo revo*

Yeah, funny when the "Revo TE" guys get excited about something that has 1/10th the capability of DCC. It's a good cheap price, but with the track power issues and heating issues, they are getting what they pay for. 

I can understand that you do not like the thumbwheel, I did not like it at first either. I actually use the up and down buttons more, but for switching, the "yard mode" with the thumbwheel is VERY cool. 

I would like to hear what was not intuitive with the NCE throttle, my experience with Massoth and Zimo is that they have very complex and small displays with lots of info that I don't really need, and they have a lot of "Shifted" functions and menus, where the NCE has more "single press" dedicated buttons, like the dedicated momentum and consisting buttons. 

Not arguing, really like to hear your thoughts. 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: First impressions...NCE cab & new Aristo revo*

It's funny the things you mention that you don't like about the Massoth and Zimo are the same exact things I disliked about the NCE--I thought the screen was small and didn't show me the info I wanted! LOL! 
On the Massoth I can quickly scroll through pictures of the locos until I get to the one I want, which is very handy, especially for the kids, or of course you can quickly do it by number. With the NCE I found it strange that you had to hit the esc key to get back to a mode where it would operate--reminded me more of a computer than anything else. I much prefer the way the Navigator does things with the menu driven prompts. I'm not sure why you want the momentum button since each train decoder has it's own specific settings for that--what do you use it for? On consisting I like the way the Navigator selects pre-created "trains" just like locos...will have to play with the NCE button on that. Next week I'll be over in Vancouver again and I'll spend more time with it so I can give a better analysis of it--this was really just a quick and dirty response to the NCE vs the way I felt when I first tried a Navigator--it was love at first feel! (wait...that didn't come out quite right...LOL). 

Keith


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

http://www.zimo.at/web2007/images/Fahrpultgruppe_klein.GIF

Dear Greg (and I love your dearly







), I honestly don't see where the ZIMO has a small display , in Guest and Normal mode the important function is right there easy to read. In Expert mode you trade off Character size for more information. At least you have a choice unlike the NCE which is limited 2 its two rows of 16 character monochromatic display. ZIMO display changes color red for Accessories, Green for rolling stock, and last not least yellow for programming. Very intuitive - you always know where you are.

In addition the function keys have tri-color LED red/green used for accessories and Off/yellow used for rolling stock functions. On any engine or switch you can quickly go back and see the status of the function (On/Off) or the position of the switch. One of the greatest features for the switch control is, that I can have *8* switches under one Main address, instead of SELECT and go through a list you have a very short list of groups of up to 8 switches.

Switches and Rolling Stock can be named







, e.g. Grand Junction might be a station, no point to remember which address(es) it/they is/are.

The number of meaningful keys is identical, but ZIMO at least offers the option to have some functions available through pressing of two keys (which I wouldn't want any other way anyhow). Among those is programming on programming track and programming on main. Other systems you will go through a set of menu structure before you can go there SELECT/ENTER/SCROLL/SELECT/ENTER/SCROLL/ etc.

In terms of acceleration I don't understand the benefit of INC/DEC and INC-FAST and DEC-FAST. That might be valuable for non-DCC operation, but all my engines have speed curves. So when leaving a stop I just put the slider to the full speed (if the train goes onto a journey) and whether I would do this fast or not it would have no influence on the acceleration of the engine. So typically the slider is set from 0 to a value according to my activity (Full speed for open track) and why I approach a station is set to 0 for automatic deceleration while I work with another train in the meantime. If I need "direct", "Instantaneous" behavior control I switch on the "manual" mode which is typically the case for switching operations. If I wanted too (although no practical need) I can slide the slider in 1 sec to full speed and the engine runs away like a rocket. Push buttons or wheels are by far not as instantaneous as a slider, plus the slider shows me intuitively at what % of maximum I am 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or Full.

The Direction is handheld by an "intuitive" button - so I don't have to read the text direction, I know that this is the reversing button. Also I don't have to read FWD in order to know if the engines is going forward, but the direction lights are indicating that for me.

So if intuitive is the main category - I have no doubt that ZIMO leads the pack including *non*-DCC systems such us the REVOLUTE by Aristocraft. I hope we don't have to go into the those details


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: First impressions...NCE cab & new Aristo revo*

Axel, those 2 pictures are not even close to scale! Shoot them side by side in the same picture, the Zimo has a much smaller display. A lot more information, but I cannot see the Zimo or Massoth display without glasses, I can JUST see the NCE. 

Even in the pictures above, the NCE display is wider... 


Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: First impressions...NCE cab & new Aristo revo*

The Massoth display is larger than either one, and is the only one with backlit screen, backlit keys and backlit throttle dial--how do either of you guys see your keyboards at night without backlit keys? 

But Greg, I'm going to side with Axel on the Zimo...I think it's a more 'useful' size and shape than the NCE. 
You know I didn't intend a "mine's bigger than yours" thread.....but heck we're guys...and guys just can't help comparing sizes!!  

Keith


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Keith, actually the ZIMO screen is of course backlit and instead of backlighting the keys, they opted for color coding the pertinent stati of the function keys (F0...F20) Back/Forw, Manual Operation, Shunting etc., speed by appropriate LED signal

Hence I know not only where the keys are, but also what their condition is. So I see very well in the dark - I show if you come over for dinner, wine and trains


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, the backlighting on the Zimo screen is great, and the color coding of the display (red green yellow) does help you remember what mode you are in.

For night-time use, the Zimo beats my NCE.... 

Regards, Greg

p.s. this is a more accurate comparison.... the NCE picture is not shown with the backlight on.. the locomotive name is as large on the Zimo as the NCE, but the other letters are much smaller... each display has it's strengths and weaknesses.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: First impressions...NCE cab & new Aristo revo*

More FISH stories to come!!!! You know the old story's a man's version is way different than that of a "womens" Hah LOL The Regal


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hello forum friends-

Since the original picture posted by Axel is completely out of scale, I figured it was worthwhile to show a few different DCC cabs together. I did not have an MX-31, so I printed a picture to the correct scale.

LGB Loco Remote









LGB Universal Remote









Navigator









NCE ProCab









Zimo MX-31









Comparison









Best regards,
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: First impressions...NCE cab & new Aristo revo*

Great! 

Bob, I'd like permission to use your last picture on my site... that really helps.... 

Also, what would be cool (beg beg) is a picture with all the unit aligned at the bottom, rather than centered... it more easily shows the size difference IMHO. 

Regards, Greg


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Greg-

Sorry for the delay. Here is a copy of the photo you requested. Feel free to use these photos on your website.










Best regards,
Bob


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

*RE: First impressions...NCE cab & new Aristo revo*

This may be a dumb question, but I need to ask: are all of these units tethered or run over RF? 

Tom


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

These are all wireless, but some have the antennas off... 

Great picture Bob, thanks! 

Regards, Greg


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## lgbben (Jan 3, 2008)

IMHO they shuld all be shown with the antenna to make a fair comparison, How many buys a wireles phone whit a big antenna nowadays ?
BTW the pictures shows me the BIG DISPLAY always promoted, thanks Bob

Regards Ben


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I thought someone would make that comment. While a long antenna can be a problem, none of these have long antennas, they are either external or stubbies. 

Looks like the massoth is physically largest. 

What is important to me is readibility, can I see the information I want? My preferences may be different than others.I don't need to know the current or the voltage on the track at all times, I do like to know the locomotive number, the direction and status of certain functions. 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

The wireless Massoth Navigator actually has no external antenna at all...a very nice feature, so you can't tell just by looking at it if it is wireless or not. The LGB handhelds have about a 2" long wire that hangs out of the snap-in wireless piece. I believe the Zimo and NCE wireless versions have a short stubby, maybe about 3" long. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Besides the readability of the display (size, clutter, right information, size of characters), another important criteria is the size, how it fits in your hand, is it easy to do one-handed operation, etc. 

The antenna being a 3" stubby, 2" wire, or internal is not a factor in my opinion, it is not as important as the above items, I've seen lots of people use different systems, besides trying them myself. 

Regards, Greg


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