# New to Live Steam



## tcaron20 (Nov 19, 2010)

I'm a Large scale electric guy who would like to "play" with live steam.

The Accucraft seems to be the way to go but for the money the Aristo-craft RC - Undecorated Black, Live Steam 0-4-0 Switcher with Metal Carrying case - looks interesting.

Should I stay with a Forney Accucraft of go for the Aristo-craft?

Thanks,

Tom C


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

I myself am also fairly new to g-scale live steam (although I have a lot of experience with 7.5" gauge). Although I cannot speak to Aristocraft, as I have no personal experience with their engines, I can speak to Accucraft. I have an Accucraft Ruby and absolutely love it, it was a very easy engine to learn with, getting my steam engine servicing kit together and such. It runs great on just about any radius track. The forny or plantation engine are basically just the ruby with more detail, so depending on what your planning to do - you might change which engine you want. 

In my case, we have a small indoor layout, which made the Ruby/Forny about the only engine we could get. But since we were planning at the time to build an outdoor railroad (which has since been started), I figured I would get the cheapest ruby model in planning to get a 4-4-0, or 2-6-0 from Accucraft.


----------



## benny2.0 (Jan 12, 2010)

I like to make a list. 
Between wants, needs, likes and $$$. 
Are you some one that likes to tinker? 
Or are you a turnkey typ of person?


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Another thing to think about is scale. Do you want standard gauge equipment at 1:29 or do you like the feel of narrow gauge at 1:20.3 ? Also If you plan to have some of both on your roster you will have to make sure your right of way and bridges are built to clear the wider 1:20.3 equipment. That's what is so nice about G Gauge There are several scales you can run on it. I can't speak to Aristo , but I am very impressed with my new Ruby It's an easy build as a kit and a forgiving first live steamer. I'm also hatching plans for some track out side once winter breaks.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

"Do you want standard gauge equipment at 1:29"

Footnote: SG is best defined as 1:32 (offered via Aster)


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristo is plastic. Accucraft locomotives are made of brass and stainless steel. It's a world of difference.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I have an Accucraft Ruby and absolutely love it, it was a very easy engine to learn with 
While that's a true statement, the word "learn" needs a little clarification. ChaoticRambo has some experience running large live steam engines - a total newcomer may find a Ruby to be a bit finicky. Do a search of MLS for Ruby threads, and you will find quite a few that relate to solving problems. 

That being said - it only seems to apply to the original Ruby and variants with the smaller cylinders. This year, I believe, Accucraft added the Fornay and Plantation locos with 1/2" cylinders and have retrofitted the larger cylinders to the Ruby. The Forney is reported to be a delight - the Plantation loco is too new for reports. 

If you also search for threads about 'which is the best steam engine for a new guy' the general concensus, apart from the issues of scale/gauge/fidelity to prototype already mentioned, is that Roundhouse locos are bullet-proof and easy to run (I can attest to that,) the Aristo locos are interesting but complicated, and the Accucraft are good for beginners especially the slightly larger locos than the 0-4-0s. 

But if you enjoy 'learning on the job', a Ruby can be fun.


----------



## highpressure (Jan 2, 2008)

*A word of caution if purchasing an Aristo-craft steam loco. There are 
"NO REPAIR PARTS" available from the Mfg to do any repairs, just excuses & that doesn't fix it.*


----------



## SalM (Jan 2, 2008)

The new Accucraft Dockside 0-4-0 might be a good choice for you............http://www.accucraftestore.com/index.php?productID=118


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Tom, 
I always suggest to people that 'want' to get into live steam, is to see as much of it running in person before you decide what to buy. 
Decide what kind of locomotive interests you. 
You are buying a piece of working engineering, so they do tend to be a lot more expensive than some plastic electric locomotives. 
From my experience, I would suggest the following, which others may or may not agree with! 
Basically the larger physically the loco is, the more 'friendly' it is to run. By this I mean that the larger boiler is likely to keep a more constant pressure during the run, which will be longer. 
A larger loco will tend to be more controllable than a smaller one. By this I mean that a small loco will run it's best with it's perfect weight train, whereas a larger loco will pull a greater range of weight trains. 
Don't get me wrong, smaller locos are a lot of fun, but if you really want a K27, or an F5 or whatever, save up your money for that rather than getting a Ruby just for the sake of getting something in live steam. 
Whatever you get, hoping that you will enjoy it. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## tcaron20 (Nov 19, 2010)

Thanks Dave, 

Good advice. Sal's suggestion to go for the Dockside along with your comments that the larger engine might be a bit more stable is teh direction I'm headed. So fortunate to benefit from those who have "been there." 

Got to save a few more bucks, hopefully faster than it is devaluating, and spring for the Dockside. 

I do want a pressuregauge, etc., and all the extras that would make running the engine easier and more reliable. 

Thanks again! 

Tom C


----------



## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

id go for the ruby kit / ypu learn alot when you build it. and it isnt hard to build.. 
plus i dont think a pressure gauge is needed when using butane. save your self a ton of money and just go with a ruby kit and hav ethe otehr 500 for when you get addicted and want to get a BIG loco


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 29 Nov 2010 12:40 PM 

Don't get me wrong, smaller locos are a lot of fun, but if you really want a K27, or an F5 or whatever, save up your money for that rather than getting a Ruby just for the sake of getting something in live steam. 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Well said. I made the mistake of buying a Loco that I really had little interest in for my first to just "_Boil some water_". Shortly after, it was sold to put the funds towards what I should have bought in the first place. However, if what you see your budget allowing for the next couple of years is a Ruby then buy one and don't look back. Nothing wrong with them for the price paid.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

"i dont think a pressure gauge is needed when using butane"

Type of fuel has nothing to do with the need or want of a pressure gauge.


----------



## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

You dont have anything steam powered like blowers to maintain. 
But i know lots of people like them im just saying you dont need them to run one well.


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

I do not have a pressure gauge on my ruby, and that has not impaired my running it one bit. Even with the butane just cracked, it still tends to pop-off while running. Sometimes I can get its sweet spot and it will run without the pop-off going. I don't know if having a pressure gauge would change how I run it.


----------



## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

This old baby doesn't have a pressure gauge, and she runs just fine...


----------



## mack505 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 29 Nov 2010 09:58 AM 
I have an Accucraft Ruby and absolutely love it, it was a very easy engine to learn with 
The Forney is reported to be a delight - the Plantation loco is too new for reports. 


But if you enjoy 'learning on the job', a Ruby can be fun. 
I haven't had a chance to write much of a review, but I can report that my Plantation loco is also a delight to run. It's basically a Forney with a different trailing truck and details. I hope to have a full review forthcoming soon.


----------



## docdoo (Dec 27, 2007)

I have the Aristo 0-4-0 and I Love it, I also have a Ruby but imo the Aristo is vastly better.
The "sound" in mine was pretty sucky, over driven ( distorted ) but I fixed that with a mod to

the circuit board. But once you hear the real live steam Bark, Why would anyone want to 

play artificial noise ??? the engine is Bigger then the Ruby, Pulls 4 large cars for over 20 minutes
the Fire doesnt go out (till the fuel is gone)Oh the storys I could tell of Ruby fire going out woes.

It goes around 48" turns perfectly. ( trying to get the ruby to go slow enough to do that causes
loss of hair) It Comes with RADIO CONTROL built in. The metal case is SWEEEET... 
If I could have it to do over, I wouldn't own a Ruby. But then when I got my Ruby there wasnt

a live steam Aristo-craft 0-4-0 , and if the Aristo wasnt on Sale now I wouldn't have it still...
But it is...!!!
Doc...


----------



## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

i have a vid somewhere of a ruby pulling well over 25 ft of cars. went for about 16 minutes before running out of water. they are a new beast with the updates. 
the price difference between a 500 buck ruby and a 1000 buck aristo is crazy for how similar they are. for acouple hundred more you could get an aster kit.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By cjsrch on 30 Nov 2010 01:04 AM 
i have a vid somewhere of a ruby pulling well over 25 ft of cars. went for about 16 minutes before running out of water. they are a new beast with the updates. 
the price difference between a 500 buck ruby and a 1000 buck aristo is crazy for how similar they are. for acouple hundred more you could get an aster kit. Please, please, _please, _tell us where you can buy an Aster kit for *any* locomotive for $1200..................

BTW, the Aristocraft steam switcher is on sale here in UK for around $1600. Nobody I know has one.

Can't think why that should be, me.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


----------



## cjsrch (May 29, 2010)

Aster lion kit is apx 1200 Alc fired. 

Anyways i think we really derailed this thread. 
in the end its all going to come down to his budget for a first train im just pointing out that alot of the bells and whistles do not make it much easier to run


----------



## tcaron20 (Nov 19, 2010)

Wow, lots of info here.

Thanks for all who responded to my live steam question.

Budget for me is around $650.00 so the Accucraft Forney will probably be my purchase when I'm ready. The Ruby is a great choice but the Forney looks nicer to me. It appears I do not really need the pressure gauge so I've crossed that of my list. If I deceide to upgrade I don't think I'll have a problem selling the Accucraft.

Thanks again...

Tom C


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

I run my Ruby with an 8 car (Accucraft 2 axle flats) train heavily loaded around 2' radius curves. The only quark it has it the fact that the airflow coming into the smoke box is not great enough to sustain the fire, so simply running the engine with the smoke box door cracked open solves all of those problems. Some people open up the stack more, or open up the hole in the bottom f the smoke box, but I just prefer to crack the smoke box door.

The only thing I have found with the Ruby is that it tends to use up 100% of the recommended water, so instead of taking out 30ml, I take out 20ml and have a little bit left in the boiler. Although with the low butane fire you need to keep up pressure in the ruby, it would take a while for the fire to cause any harm in an empty boiler.


----------



## mack505 (Jan 2, 2008)

You've hit upon Ruby's biggest design fault. Running out of H2O first is a design issue in an entry level engine, but Accucraft does warn of this in the instructions. It's certainly not a reason to not own one, but they do require close attention to avoid damage. 

Of course, you are operating a pressure vessel fueled by a flammable gas or liquid. Paying attention is important regardless Of which runs out first.


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ChaoticRambo on 30 Nov 2010 08:54 AM 
I run my Ruby with an 8 car (Accucraft 2 axle flats) train heavily loaded around 2' radius curves. The only quark it has it the fact that the airflow coming into the smoke box is not great enough to sustain the fire, so simply running the engine with the smoke box door cracked open solves all of those problems. Some people open up the stack more, or open up the hole in the bottom f the smoke box, but I just prefer to crack the smoke box door.

The only thing I have found with the Ruby is that it tends to use up 100% of the recommended water, so instead of taking out 30ml, I take out 20ml and have a little bit left in the boiler. Although with the low butane fire you need to keep up pressure in the ruby, it would take a while for the fire to cause any harm in an empty boiler. 

Please define "take a while" so that someone new to live steam will understand that one can run with the boiler empty??? I would indicate to anyone that if they believe the boiler is empty, stop immediately and let it cool down do not keep running the locomotive. We have seen collapsed boiler flues due to lack of water and it was not running very long on the empty boiler. Best practice is to know running times relative to boiler capacity if there is no sight glass (of course running conditions vary as to speed, load, grade, etc). In the past builders of locomotive helped to prevent this situaiton by having the gas run out prior to water but so in recent productions.

Preventative measure: install a goodall valve along with a water pump bottle and keep the boiler from running dry.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Please, please, please, tell us where you can buy an Aster kit for any locomotive for $1200 
TAC, 
When I decided I wanted a JNR Mogul to convert to EBT #1, I was offered 2 complete kits, NIB with cellophane covering, for around $800. I bought one. 

Not every Aster is a 4-8-4 - the new 0-4-2 tank looks like fun. Call Jim at Southern Steam Trains and tell him to keep an eye out for you.


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

Posted By Charles on 30 Nov 2010 09:21 AM 
Posted By ChaoticRambo on 30 Nov 2010 08:54 AM 
I run my Ruby with an 8 car (Accucraft 2 axle flats) train heavily loaded around 2' radius curves. The only quark it has it the fact that the airflow coming into the smoke box is not great enough to sustain the fire, so simply running the engine with the smoke box door cracked open solves all of those problems. Some people open up the stack more, or open up the hole in the bottom f the smoke box, but I just prefer to crack the smoke box door.

The only thing I have found with the Ruby is that it tends to use up 100% of the recommended water, so instead of taking out 30ml, I take out 20ml and have a little bit left in the boiler. Although with the low butane fire you need to keep up pressure in the ruby, it would take a while for the fire to cause any harm in an empty boiler. 

Please define "take a while" so that someone new to live steam will understand that one can run with the boiler empty??? I would indicate to anyone that if they believe the boiler is empty, stop immediately and let it cool down do not keep running the locomotive. We have seen collapsed boiler flues due to lack of water and it was not running very long on the empty boiler. Best practice is to know running times relative to boiler capacity if there is no sight glass (of course running conditions vary as to speed, load, grade, etc). In the past builders of locomotive helped to prevent this situaiton by having the gas run out prior to water but so in recent productions.

Preventative measure: install a goodall valve along with a water pump bottle and keep the boiler from running dry. 


Obviously running a boiler dry is never recommended, and should be avoided at all cost. What I was trying to get at, is that the Ruby is a small engine which requires a VERY low butane fire to sustain good running pressure. So, if you were to run out of water - the risk of permanently damaging the engine is low considering the engine will stop soon anyway - once the butane fire goes out my engine might make it around once on our 40 foot indoor railroad. Again, this is under the assumption you are running a low butane fire, if you were to run a high fire for longer periods of time you would definitely want to closely watch the water.


----------



## tmtrainz (Feb 9, 2010)

If you shop around long enough you can find the Aristocraft 0-4-0 for under $500. I believe it was Nicholas Smith Trains at the York TCA meet this fall had one for $475, if I remember correctly. They only had one, and that price might have been just for that particular show, but I'm just pointing out that they can be purchased for significantly less than what they list for. 

Tom


----------



## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

I paid $560 for my Aristocraft 0-4-0 about 6 weeks ago. Since then I seen them advertised for less. I had never run a live steam locomotive before and had absoutlely no trouble running this on my first attempt. I dont know if the Ruby is better or not, but for basically the same price, I'm happy with my Aristo with radio control, a pressure gauge and lots of other non essential extras that the ruby doesn't seem to come with. But, I've never had a Ruby so I can't really say which is better. 
Bob
SA 1969


----------



## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

At diamondhead last year, I thought the aristo 0-4-0 had an issue of drawing oil into the boiler on cooldown from the oiler due to the throttle being after the oil reservoir, was this true? Or was this just a rumor? 

I would say go with a ruby variant, bash it into something later, build the kit, the Forney is great you cant go wrong. Sometimes you have to tinker with Aristocraft live steam engines but I do think they are getting better at designing them. The live steam aristo mogul needed a bunch of tweaks to get her running good! 

Vance Bass has a nice website of bashing a ruby into another engine if you ever get board of her (I still haven't and I have had her for 4 years now lol) 
http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/steam/ruby/rubythings.htm 

Hope this helps!


----------



## tcaron20 (Nov 19, 2010)

Hi Doc,

Thanks for your comments on the Aristo 0-4-0. Where is the best place to buy one? Best price?

Thanks,

tom C


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

If I may, I would suggest foregoing the Aristocraft 0-4-0 and picking up one of the AML (Accucraft) USRA 0-6-0's, also in 1:29 scale. They seem to be quite the solid engine and have a good track record. Retail is a bit higher than the ART 0-4-0 running in the upper 3 figures (maybe low 1k mark) 

The quality is better on the AML engine, the shell is brass and stainless steel versus plastic, parts are readily available or easily adapted from similar engines in the Accucraft pipeline. The level for expansion on the AML 0-6-0's basic locomotive is also a bit greater than the Aristo engine. With both you gain a larger boiler, more powerful chassis, and amenities such as a pressure gauge and water sight glasses. I believe the AML 0-6-0 also has a provision for a handpump in the tender along with the standard Accucraft threaded goodall valve for adding water under steam. 

Just my tuppence, looking from a logistical and mechanical standpoint.


----------



## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

Posted By tcaron20 on 01 Dec 2010 08:24 PM 
Hi Doc,

Thanks for your comments on the Aristo 0-4-0. Where is the best place to buy one? Best price?

Thanks,

tom C
Tom, here is the best price I could find on the Aristo 0-4-0. From Trainworld $499.99. I got mine from Wholesaletrains.com for about $560 before Trainworld advertised it at 499.99.

http://archive.constantcontact.com/...74737.html

Bob


----------

