# Socket "Standards"



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

There has been some discussion in the QSI thread about the history of the "Socket". I will start a new thread here, so as not to upset Greg.

I would love to know what the "Standard" is. Some years ago now, I asked both Bachmann and Aristo to share that information with me so I might pursue perpetuating their "standard" by designing my products around it. You would think they would encourage designers of control systems to use their "Standard".

To the best of my recollection: Bachmann wouldn't even respond to my repeated requests for information. 

But the best one was Aristo. After multiple attempts, I finally got a response from Lewis himself. I wish I would have saved it but it went something like this: Piss off! If you want information go to the forums. This is the way the hobby works.

So with these attitudes, and the uncertainty of any "standard" at all; certainly not published anywhere. Why would I bother with investing my time and money in the socket? 

So if indeed there is a standard, I would love to see it; in public, on a website, not owned by a company claiming to be the standard.

Details of the pin assignments that Tony has eluded to would be welcome knowledge. I have no doubt I can get this info first hand from Tony, but why not put it out here where everyone can see it?


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Who are you asking?

For my Aristo locos that have a 12 pin plug "I" have standardized on the following pinout for my own receiver.








I don't have a Bachmann loco with a similar plug so I can't validate if it applies to them. Also, I don't know if the smoke lines are valid for anyone else, I'm battery for the most part and don't use smoke but may start playing with it for a few locos. I may program my RC to vary for chuff or intensity if I get a wild hair, no idea if it would work, I have done no research.

I will say that the 10 pin riser used for stability in Aristo locos has no predictable connectivity. I received no reply from Aristo when I asked if they would predictably provide sound output to any of those pins as they did on first run SD45s.

My same receiver board also can be configured with screw terminals instead of the pins, same PCB fits all (except perhaps Bachmann). I just work with what I have...

russ

p.s. I take full responsibility for putting DCC after Aristocraft in the diagram, it was a few years ago before I knew better than to mix that "standard" with my own radio control system!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

i'm almost asleep, will respond tomorrow, the aristo socket is documented on their site, i have several documents on new stuff, and I'll see if I can share the development document we did for the Titan to try to work with everything. I have some of the Bachmann design stuff, but need to be sure I can publish it. 

Regards, Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks Russ. That's more of a response than I ever got from the big boys. You would think that if you wanted to promote a standard, you would make the information available .... you know .... like publish a "Standard" somewhere.

I checked the Aristo and Bachmann sites, since I haven't been there in ages. I can't find anything.

At one time I thought the NMRA was going to document this in RP 9.1.1. Anyone have any updates on that action?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo has the socket definition on their site somewhere, i have to find it again since they re-did the web site

here's some help: *http://aristocraftforum.com/NewDocs...ematic.PDF*

more: *http://www.elmassian.com...trong>*


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

At one time I thought the NMRA was going to document this in RP 9.1.1. Anyone have any updates on that action? 
There was a push when Bachmann came out with the K to make their version of the socket a "standard," but it kinda fizzled. Bachmann and Aristo are the only two using the "socket," and don't seem to be too worried that it's not "official" within the NMRA. It's doubtful you'll see any great push to establish it officially at this point. 

Greg, do you remember what it is about the socket that's making QSI have both an "Aristo" and "Bachmann" version of their Titan? I recall there being something like a polarity issue or something minor like that. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes I not only remember what are the differences, but I have internal design documentation. 

BUT QSI spent a lot of time doing this and testing.... and that information is QSI's not mine. 

I will tell you that there are differences between the two different Bachmann implementations of the Aristo socket. 

I think that the onus of "coming clean" ought to be on Bachmann, and the documentation of the variations they created... not some small company trying to make a buck who had to do all this research and testing on their own. You ever see a specification from Bachmann? 


Greg 

p.s. The NMRA group working on the socket vaporized.... I quit when I was told to not talk to others in the group and to pass all information through one person. Talk about a joke...


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

No More Real Answers for large scale, NMRA seems to be for all the smaller scales.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

True, big trains scare them.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No one wanted to work together... one group wanted to change some long-established definitions of the Aristo socket, another group/manufacturer seemed to care less, another wanted something completely different matching a European standard. 

Entropy set in. 

Greg


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