# Engine number boards



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

How are Engine Numbers determined?

Do they ever re use Engine Numbers over again ?

JJ


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

This is my best guess. Most large railroads, determined a classification for a specific engine type and assigned specifics numbers to that engine type. On smaller logging and mining roads it is probably anyone's guess.

In real life, I would doubt that a major railroad would reuse a number for a different engine, but anything is possible.

Chuck


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ;

My knowledge is certainly not vast on this subject, but here is what I do know. Railroad motive power departments usually allot a series of numbers to a "class" or series of related locomotives. On the Norfolk & Western Railway, the J class got 600 series numbers, the A class got 1200 series numbers, and the Y class got 2100 series numbers. That is just for N&W; on the Reading Railroad a 2100 series locomotive was a T1 4-8-4 type and not a Y 2-8-8-2 type. The Reading Railroad also had a locomotive numbered 611, but the RDG locomotive was a camelback 4-6-0, and not a beautiful streamlined 4-8-4. So while the class and engine number means something to a specific railroad's motive power department, another railroad's motive power department may assign that same class and engine number to a totally different type of locomotive.

As to your second question, I do know of one example where different types of locomotive got the same number. The Union Pacific's 4-8-4 steam locomotive number 844 entered excursion service after being restored as number 8444. The locomotive had to have the extra 4 because there was already a DIESEL on the roster with the steamer's old number. Once diesel number 844 dropped off Union Pacific's books, the steamer got her old number back.

Hope this helps,
David Meashey


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

.... and UP still uses the number 8444 on a diesel today.
.. a SD70Ace

Loco groups get moved to make room for other groups...
UP recently renumbered their SD90's & SD9043's, to clear out a block of numbers for new GE's coming into the roster currently.

A loco can have its numbers changed...within the groupings...

Why don't you create your own system JJ....
...classes..and numbers...

Dirk


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Originally they named the engine... usually after the owner of the RR or someone prominent associated with the RR, or to commemorate some event... similar to how ships were named.

That fell out of favor and some RRs numbered them in sequential order... A small startup RR might have only one engine so it might not have a number, but when the 2nd engine arrived it was number "2" and the first one was retroactively numbered "1".

A few RRs numbered them based on the month and year the engine was acquired. i.e.: "1089" was acquired in October of 1889.

Then it became useful to number them in sequences based on type (capability) and that gave dispatchers and road foremen some knowledge of what kind of engine was available if they were told the number. So, as RRs acquired many engines of particular types, they were given sequential numbers starting at some even hundreds number; e.g.: 600, 601, 602, 603, etc. and 4500, 4501, 4502, 4503, etc. The "Prototype" was the first engine and gave rise to referring to the type/capability by the prototype number. This was useful but ran into problems if they didn't allow enough numbers between the series... i.e.: if they got more than 100 engines of one type then that series of numbers would overrun some other series.

As engines are retired (age or destructive accident) the number becomes available for a replacement engine; though some numbers might be sort of permanently retired because of fame or misfortune ("bad luck" engine).

RRs do periodically find a need to do wholesale renumbering of their engines, to consolidate the number series and make room for other series and in the process some engines might get the number that was formerly associated with some other engine. But at no time is there ever more than one engine with a particular number on one particular RR, but any particular number might be duplicated across different RRs.

U.P. sort of ran out of numbers because of all the mergers and buy-outs they did several years ago, so for a while they had to refer to the former road name as well as the number. They also divided their power fleet into "Road" and "Yard" engines... Road engines just have a number, but "Yard" engines have a "Y" prepended to the number e.g.: "U.P. Y-456"


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

The Canadian Pacific went through two complete renumbering of it's locos so the same number might appear on three completely different locomotives depending which year you are talking about.
Each time it was to re-organise the class types into some form of order.
One British railway, due to the cost of the nice cast brass number plates, would store them when a loco was removed from service, and then re-use it for the next new locomotive.
Thus there was no logic to the different classes and their numbers.
Obviously no problem when loco numbers are just paint.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

The PRR [Standard RR of the World] made NO serious attempt to group locomotive numbers for specific classes. They used whatever numbers were available. When an engine got scrapped that number was considered available for immediate reuse. 

On the other hand, the title of the thread says "engine number boards" which on steam locos often had the TRAIN Number in it, rather than the loco number. An example would be SP GS-4 #4449 hauling one of the Daylights; the number board would show "1-99", fist section of TRAIN #99. However, the number assigned to many trains run as Extras used the lead locomotive number as the train number. Common practice on lines like the UP. so a freight extra headed by Big Boy 4014 would show "X-4014" on the number boards. Hope this did not muddy the waters.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

> 1 - Why don't you create your own system JJ....
> ...classes..and numbers





> 2 - Railroad motive power departments usually allot a series of numbers to a "class" or series of related locomotives.





> 3 - A few RRs numbered them based on the month and year the engine was acquired





> 4 - They used whatever numbers were available





> 5 - the title of the thread says "engine number boards"


 
You gents have completely justified the numbers on my RR. I painted my four locos thusly:

a - For lack of any real reason, my first engine, my S4 was numbered #410 since it was put into service April, 2010 (3), which also was the month my first grandkid was born (awwww)

b - For my second engine, a GP40, I gave it #701. I think because it was July of 2011 when it entered service (I'm not a gambler), thus creating a separate series (2) for road engines.

c - Next engine was the SD45 #724. I have no idea why, other than I had more of the twos and fours left (4) in my set of (Cedarleaf) decals.

d - Final engine is my SD70MAC #713. USAT has numberboards (5) available for the 70MAC, but only certain numbers. Since 700 became my road engine series (2), and I didn't want to have to use that "4" beneath the cab window because I realized I don't like the fours in the font I choose, I picked 714 since it was available, and I wouldn't have to mess with making my own numberboards (and I'm also not superstitious).

I will never again worry how I can explain to visitors why the engines aren't numbered one, two, three....


JackM


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

And then there is my "Old 97." No reason for the number, but I realized later that it did match the song, "The Wreck of Old 97." Trish, the work triceratops is my tribute to John Allen, whose HO Gorre & Daphetid Railroad featured Emma, the work stegosaurus.










The working dwarf signal is just added whimsy.

Regards,
David Meashey


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