# Revo and QSI combined



## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Has anyone figured out how to use the Revo TX with the Revo RX with a QSI unit for sound only. Thanks Jake


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Do you expect to control any of the sounds? 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I too would like to hear from anyone who has done it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, since the QSI wants to read the motor rpm, it basically says that the motor is connected to the QSI, so the Revo will not control the speed. 

If you figure out how to run the QSI from a Revo, PWM converted to DC, it could be done.. 

Basically it could be done, convert Revo motor output to DC, then feed to QSI, use outputs on Revo to control relays to do the polarity reversal to the QSI, you could not only control the Bell and Whistle, but if you were really good, you could control all 30 sounds.. 

But it would take all kinds of parts to do all of this, and why bother? 

Just get a Phoenix and get it over with... The Revo was designed to be "anti-DCC"... 

Greg


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

I would like to see QSI come out with a programmable sound unit to add to the loco that could be controled with the Aristo Revo. To combete with the Phoenix and Dallee units.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's the plan for QSI.... we'll see when they come out... 

Greg


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Greg, that would be great if it happens. With money being tight now I am trying to save where ever I can. A QSI w/g-wire is about $235 (125+110) per engine, a Revo with a Dallee is about $165 ($205 if you use their 22watt amp for decent sound 65+100+40) but if you can get the Revo and QSI to work together it is $190(65+125). I like the sound programing with the QSI so every engine sounds different. So the difference of $45 for the two QSI setups isn't to bad but when you are talking 15 engines you are now talking $710. Almost enough to buy some track. LOL But it is allot. If I could just get the engine sound and control the bell and whistle that would be great. Transmitter is a wash both about $200 and you only need one. Thanks Jake


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

And the Phoenix and Revo together you are talking $305 (65+240) per engine X 15 engines and wow I could almost get a USA Hudson. Jake


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I assume you are planning to be using track power?? For track power your prices are about right. If you're using battery power, though, the cost of the Revo and the Phoenix board look more like $240/engine ($65+$175) I'm not pushing battery power, but looking through this thread I couldn't tell for sure that you were using track power.

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There was a long shopping list for the new QSI. It has taken forever. Several people have leaked information, some of it true, some just conjecture. 

I know the "shopping list", helped make it several years ago. Trigger inputs are definitely on the list. 

But you need to remember there are 2 entities here: QS Industries, the company who develops and designs the hardware, firmware, and custom ASIC. 

Then you have QSI solutions, who is effectively the customer, who makes the feature requests, and ultimately has the product assembled and distributes it. 

Sometimes what is requested is different from what is designed! 

Until I have a beta unit in my hands and can say what it really can do, I will not comment. This should explain why I keep saying things like "that feature was requested". 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By eheading on 25 Feb 2011 07:51 AM 
I assume you are planning to be using track power?? For track power your prices are about right. If you're using battery power, though, the cost of the Revo and the Phoenix board look more like $240/engine ($65+$175) I'm not pushing battery power, but looking through this thread I couldn't tell for sure that you were using track power.

Ed

Unless you're using DCC, in which case qsi is down to about $140 per engine


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, on a per loco basis, battery power is way more expensive than track power DCC, especially when you count in sound. 

Even without sound, the DCC decoders are cheaper than the cheapest Revo, WITHOUT counting the cost of the batteries! 

Of course now we will get into cost of rail and joiners and how much work it is to go track power. 

Greg


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I had hoped my comment wouldn't get into a trackpower/battery power discussion. I was merely trying to determine which system he is using. And lownote, I don't understand your $140 price for QSI with DCC. I assume that is true DCC with track power and controls through the track so you don't need the G wire receiver for the QSI Is this how you got the $140?? It seems to me that if I look at St. Aubin prices, if I am going to use a wireless transmitter, I have a total cost of $265 for the QSI solution. This is what I was referring to. Am I wrong about something here, or is that what you were referring to?

Ed


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, I"m not trying to pick an argument with you, I'm just trying to understand what you said. You said that "even without sound, the QSI DCC decoder is much cheaper than the Revolution receiver. How did you come up with that? It seems to me that the Revolution receiver is definitely less cost than the QSI decoder. The only problem is that if I consider a Revolution without sound, I'm really not comparing apples to apples. To be comparable it seems to me you have to include sound with the Revolution receiver, and then I definitely agree with your statement.

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Where did I say that? 

There are 3 sentences in my post, sentence #2, clearly visible is: 

"Even without sound, the DCC decoders are cheaper than the cheapest Revo, WITHOUT counting the cost of the batteries! " 

The word QSI is not in that sentence or even anywhere in that post. Please re-read that sentence and post. 


The point is without sound, DCC is much cheaper per loco than the Revo battery powered. (and its cheaper even if you ignore the price of the batteries) Actually, DCC track powered is cheaper than the Revo track powered also.


The point made earlier is that on track power, DCC with sound is cheaper than a battery powered Revo setup. 


Greg


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey Greg,

I'm not sure where you're getting some of your info, but you can rest assured that there will not be a sound only unit made by QSI. I have covered this ground several times with them, and the answer is always NO! Also, you can bet your life that they would never waist their time to make anything to work with the revo. They're not interested in going backwards in the advancement of DCC. QSI products are made to support DC, DCC, and NMRA standards. Revo does none of the above.

Remember, I don't work for Tony's, or QSI. I'm just the on call SME for QSI in OR. So anything that you may hear from Tony's, I'm not in the loop on, but I can tell you for sure, that you won't be seeing a sound only unit, or products that are made to work with revo, from QSI in Beaverton.

Loco Lee


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Sorry 'bout that, Greg. The title of this thread is "Revo & QSI combined", and posts had been talking about the QSI, so I mistakenly assumed that you were talking about the QSI decoder. Didn't realize you had broadened the subject to all DCC decoders. My mistake.

Ed


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

.......and while we are discussing it. The QSI sound decoders will work on regular DC, but only with true linear DC voltage as the power source. They are virtually impossible to get to idle correctly on PWM power. Let alone flip the direction at the correct speed to get QSI functions to react. 
That eliminates every on board battery R/C ESC on the market that I know about. Other than the old TE of course, and a couple of my larger trackside H0 systems. However, they are all big and usually have to fit in a trail car.


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## Loco Lee (Feb 17, 2010)

Correct Tony. The PWM is hard on most all electronics. 

Loco Lee


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Something, I think got lost here in translation, unless I am misreading, or misunderstanding, but the cost factor in the Revolution is a motor control only! Right? Whereas the QSI decoder is both a motor control and a sound module????? So on the Revolution, you install and you have control and NO Sound thus then you have the expense of finding or installing a sound module of some kind which is an additional cost. Somewhere Greg E referred to this in past posts. Regal 

I've been in QSI/G-wire and T9000 throttle and or NCE gwire cab for over 3+years and have never looked back easey peasey installation, good sound, good control, and 28+functions to control. Oh and cost effective. 

The only disappointment to me is the release of a new supposedly refined and more fantastic than the old, and now looking at having to upgrade to new decoders in the future, if it turns out it is so fantastic that I'll want one, or 6 Hah LOL Regal


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Loco Lee on 25 Feb 2011 06:14 PM 
Correct Tony. The PWM is hard on most all electronics. 

Loco Lee 

........but not Phoenix, or Dallee or MyLocosound. All of which can read a PWM output just fine.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Ed, you are correct, I am using track power at 18v, I have the layout down and complete so track purchase is slight for the future and I got a Revo Tx and 12 Rx off Craigs list for $200 for all and still in their packages. That was a great deal but I want quality sound and have 4 QSI units and would like to use these if possible. Would using a board like the CRE57090 from Aristo which changes PWC to DC work. I have a friend who bought one and copied the electronics on it to use his siearra boards with his Revo. The copies he makes only cost $5 each for parts. Yes since I got the Tx and Rx at a good price so the sound should not be a problem, but I just retired so I'm looking to save where ever I can besides I love the sound of the QSI units and I do have access to their programer from a friend. Jake


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The CRE57090 does indeed convert pwm to Linear for use with sound systems. It is more or less the same as my SSI-12v5 which does the same thing. 
However, I don't think the linear output is capable of actually powering a sound system, only for the reader part of the Sierra etc to see a voltage fluctuation. The Sierra has to have a battery supply to make it work. 
I could be wrong of course, and the AC part has enough grunt to to power the sound. 
Nevertheless I doubt it will be capable of powering the QSI to actually run a loco. If it can, more power to AC for solving a problem that to my knowledge has yet to be solved.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Tony what I would like to do is power the motors on the engine with the REVO and use the QSI for the sound portion only. So would the CRE57090 be able to do that or would your unit. I have the adapter boards with all the REVO's that I got so the REVO RX would plug into the engine socket and the QSI would use one of the adapter boards. My friend uses the REVO and Sierra with the same 18v track power and doesn,t need the battery for the Sierra and they all work perfect. Back to my orginal question can this be made to work together and how to wire it? Jake


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You really are not going to be happy with that setup. The QSI wants to read motor revolutions to coordinate sounds with real speed. There's no easy way to command the QSI from the Revo (although I've done it), then you need to solve the PWM input to the QSI.

The Revo just does not integrate with DCC, as per Aristo's avowed attack on the DCC market. 

Reference the 4th post in this thread. 


Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Jake. 
I don't know what the linear power output of the AC pwm converter is. 
Mine is a few milliamperes and is designed for only allowing the Sierra to read what the motor voltage is. Not to power the sound. The Sierra is still powered by the traction batteries via a voltage regulator through terminals # 2 & # 4. Yes the Sierra will function perfectly. 

I read what you say as you wanting to use the QSI as a sound system only. That may be possible. I don't know but I doubt the AC pwm converter has enough grunt to do that. How do you intend to actually power the QSI? 
Even if the idea worked and the AC pwm converter could actually be read by the QSI how do you intend to trigger the QSI sounds? 

I know of no one who has actually done what you want to do. If you do succeed I am sure we will all be glad to find out how you did it. 

It is possible to filter the 5 volt logic level of the REVO IC that drives the pwm out, then multiply the voltage and then amplify the power level. I know because I have done it and it works. BUT it is quite complicated and by the time you have done it, it would be simpler and less expensive to use a Phoenix P8.
Simply filtering PWM output does not work. Otherwise it would have been done successfully by now and we would all know about it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It can be done...

Here is an old style Train Engineer (running on linear) controlling a QSI:




And as Tony states, you CAN solve the PWM to linear conversion, but it's too much cost and time to make it worth it.

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg. 
I actually went to the trouble of having an operating program written for my linear output R/C track side controllers that was designed specifically for the Broadway range of QSI equipped locos. This set an idle voltage on the track for the QSI so that the sound came on and stayed on. It ramped up and down normally such that when the emergency brake was pushed it ramped down rapidly to the preset idle voltage. 
The sound functions were operated by flipping the direction change for the required amount of time. 
It actually worked quite well with the large scale locos equipped with QSI but, the input voltage was fixed as a percentage of the input voltage and was not adjustable. 
When Del wrote the new RCS digital proportional stick program for me, we made it a feature of the program that an idle voltage for QSI was settable and adjustable. 
However the problem still remained that the QSI required a linear output controller to function correctly. 
I thought about making an on board linear output ESC system but unless QSI make the sound triggers operate normally, ie with reed switches and magnets, the project will definitely not proceed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm, if you already have the "reversing triggering" of sounds done, why not just do the linear output ESC? 

Even with the next generation of QSI, you will still need the linear output I believe. 

You are halfway there... 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg. 

My mistake, I don't have the timed trigger sounds done for the stick radio ESC's. I used an external relay and controlled it manually with the sound triggers.
It would require an expensive rewrite of the program to cater for flipping the direction internally with my sound triggers. 
I could use a separate external relay pcb controlled manually as in above. I know that works but I don't think that is a very good way of doing it. 
I may proceed if and when QSI come up with simple reed switch triggers without requiring an expensive add on trigger interface. 
Once again the ball is actually in the QSI court.


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