# Aristocraft Mike...Some Questions?



## ikots (Oct 7, 2009)

Hiya Gang: I'm new here and have some questions about my Aristo Mike. I bought it early in production. I'm told that the sight glass for the Butane in the tender makes it from the second production run. Mine has sat in storage until this past w/e as #1 we had no layout to run it on before now. #2 I was lacking the obvious essentials (Steam Oil, Butane,Butane Filling Valve). It's taken a bit to locate a local retailer for the Butane. As this was my first attempt at firing a steam engine I ran into the usual obstacles. Hence my questions as follows:

Does anyone have an updated Operating Manual for this thing? It would have been at the very least...HELPFULL for Aristocraft to take into account that novices like me would be using this locomotive and would have NO IDEA what we're doing. In the manual that came with mine (same as the PDF Manual on the Aristo website) there is NO mention of the Butane Valve that's NOT included in the suitecase with the Mike. Fortunatley since this was my first attempt I located little Butane Lighter refill canisters that DID work to put fuel into the tender. But at $5 a piece I will still need to use the 8oz cans for $3 that I found at Gander Mountain to be sure that operations don't break the bank. However the Butane Valve I need to fill with this larger can is $30 from Aristocraft!!! WTF?!!! For what this thing already costs you'd think they'd include this little gadget WITH the engine!

On to my other questions: Aristo is emfatic that Butane is the ONLY fuel to use in this locomotive.....WHY? In my exhaustive search for a Butane source I've come across numerous Butane/Propane mixtures as well as a GREAT sale for 12oz Propane canisters at clearance for 62 cents each. Why is Propane VERBOTTEN from use in the Mikado? Oh yeah the Propane canisters wouldn't need the $30 valve from Aristo...Hmmmm?









Lastly....in the first run this w/e The Mike DOES run and looks GREAT doing it. However, it lacks the power to get out of it's own way. On our little 3 loop empire there are 2 (one inside the other) 8ft x 20ft ovals that are relatively level inside a 10x25ft oval that has a grade to drop "down in front" of the two inner tracks for better asthetics. Now I know I've read the engine does stuggle on 8ft curves...But a complete stop? Further testing on the 10ft oval showed that it didn't seem to like hills either. Until now I've only run the engine and tender and I've seen some GREAT youtube footage of this Locomotve pulling realistic consists.... WHAT am I doing wrong? Is there a break in period I should allow for the leakages of steam from the cylinders to fit and seat themselves? I'm new to all this and would welcome input to improve the lackluster performance I experienced last w/e...

I filled the butane and warm water bath per instructions. (btw it took $15 of butane for the first run using those damned little 1.2oz lighter refills...Ouch)... I filled the boiler with 500ml/2 cups of distilled water.... injected the 8ml of Aristocraft live steam oil into the lube chamber rolling the engine forward to pull the lube into the cylinders. I ignited the fuel slowly from the charged up ni-cad onbd battery... I let the pressure built to 40psi when the lifters popped and let me know I'd at least done THAT correctly.... I set the controls in the tender to REMOTE and took over with the Handheld Transmitter (yes I'd already tested the electronics in Manual and Remote) Slowly opened the throttle and had to go to FULL before the engine would budge. Then to my regret and disbelief it rolled about 3 ft spitting a foamy mix from the stack,cylinder heads,and casement below the smokebox! ...Is this normal for an out of the box first run? I'm afraid of tightening the sundry nutz and bolts for fear of damaging the unit... If this IS just growing pains and will go away and improve with further break in running PLEASE let me know! I've got too much invested and DO enjoy watching it run to relagate the Engine to a dust collector on the mantle... I wanna SEE it RUNNING and pulling the 7 car heavyweights I bought to go with it! ....PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!









Your thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.... Deano


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

deano, 

Welcome. I don't know about the Mike. I do remeber recently being new and feeling frustrated by my inexperience. You've come to the right place, you'll get help. 

One major question though, where do you live? You never know, you too might connect with a neighbor steamer.


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## dmk092 (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi, 

Welcome to live steam! 
I dont have any experience with the Aristo Mike, but I think I can address a couple of your questions. Propane has a significantly higher vapor pressure than butane at high temperatures, so if the pressure vessels in the engine arent rated for handling butane/propane mixes and you decide to skimp on fuel......boom boom. 

When you open the throttle at the beginning of a run after youre safeties have gone off, the cylinders are usually still relatively cold. So when steam first enters the cylinders and hits the cold cylinder faces it condenses and the engine locks up. If your engine is equipped with a drain cock, open the valve at the start of the run and the condensate will be forced out. If not, press down on the engine and wheel it back and forth a little until youve cleared the cylinders of water and the engine has warmed up. Foamy mixture coming out of the stack is just the condensate (mixed with steam oil) being forced out of the pistons. 

One last thing...in live steam there is a difference between "relatively level" and actually level. Make sure youre track is reasonably level because most rod engines dislike grades, though the aristo has RC so youre able to change the throttle mid run without difficulty. 

Edit: A quick google search suggests that aristocraft has blessed youre engine with drain cocks. Open them before you start youre run and close them after the cylinders have warmed up. FYI, this is exactly how a real engine operates. You said youre outer loop has hills. What happens if you open up the throttle before the upgrade and close it a little on the downgrade? Remember, an electric motor simply draws more current when its in trouble, but if you want more power mid run you need to supply it. And while I dont run my small ruby enough to justify it, if you buy in quantity butane is supposedly much cheaper. Ill let someone else with more knowledge chime in, but I have heard that those lighter fluid refill cartridges are overpriced.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ikots on 06 Oct 2009 10:44 PM 
Hiya Gang: I'm new here and have some questions about my Aristo Mike. I bought it early in production. I'm told that the sight glass for the Butane in the tender makes it from the second production run. Mine has sat in storage until this past w/e as #1 we had no layout to run it on before now. #2 I was lacking the obvious essentials (Steam Oil, Butane,Butane Filling Valve). It's taken a bit to locate a local retailer for the Butane. As this was my first attempt at firing a steam engine I ran into the usual obstacles. Hence my questions as follows:

Does anyone have an updated Operating Manual for this thing? It would have been at the very least...HELPFULL for Aristocraft to take into account that novices like me would be using this locomotive and would have NO IDEA what we're doing. In the manual that came with mine (same as the PDF Manual on the Aristo website) there is NO mention of the Butane Valve that's NOT included in the suitecase with the Mike. Fortunatley since this was my first attempt I located little Butane Lighter refill canisters that DID work to put fuel into the tender. But at $5 a piece I will still need to use the 8oz cans for $3 that I found at Gander Mountain to be sure that operations don't break the bank. However the Butane Valve I need to fill with this larger can is $30 from Aristocraft!!! WTF?!!! For what this thing already costs you'd think they'd include this little gadget WITH the engine!

True. Buy one and you'll save money (recoup cost) in the long run 


On to my other questions: Aristo is emfatic that Butane is the ONLY fuel to use in this locomotive.....WHY? In my exhaustive search for a Butane source I've come across numerous Butane/Propane mixtures as well as a GREAT sale for 12oz Propane canisters at clearance for 62 cents each. Why is Propane VERBOTTEN from use in the Mikado? Oh yeah the Propane canisters wouldn't need the $30 valve from Aristo...Hmmmm?









We have had no problems with butan/propane mix in any gas fired steam locomotives 


Lastly....in the first run this w/e The Mike DOES run and looks GREAT doing it. However, it lacks the power to get out of it's own way. On our little 3 loop empire there are 2 (one inside the other) 8ft x 20ft ovals that are relatively level inside a 10x25ft oval that has a grade to drop "down in front" of the two inner tracks for better asthetics. Now I know I've read the engine does stuggle on 8ft curves...But a complete stop? Further testing on the 10ft oval showed that it didn't seem to like hills either. Until now I've only run the engine and tender and I've seen some GREAT youtube footage of this Locomotve pulling realistic consists.... WHAT am I doing wrong? Is there a break in period I should allow for the leakages of steam from the cylinders to fit and seat themselves? I'm new to all this and would welcome input to improve the lackluster performance I experienced last w/e...

Improvement by ncreasing the safeties blow off to 60 PSI 


I filled the butane and warm water bath per instructions. (btw it took $15 of butane for the first run using those damned little 1.2oz lighter refills...Ouch)... I filled the boiler with 500ml/2 cups of distilled water.... injected the 8ml of Aristocraft live steam oil into the lube chamber rolling the engine forward to pull the lube into the cylinders. I ignited the fuel slowly from the charged up ni-cad onbd battery... I let the pressure built to 40psi when the lifters popped and let me know I'd at least done THAT correctly.... I set the controls in the tender to REMOTE and took over with the Handheld Transmitter (yes I'd already tested the electronics in Manual and Remote) Slowly opened the throttle and had to go to FULL before the engine would budge. Then to my regret and disbelief it rolled about 3 ft spitting a foamy mix from the stack,cylinder heads,and casement below the smokebox! ...Is this normal for an out of the box first run? I'm afraid of tightening the sundry nutz and bolts for fear of damaging the unit... If this IS just growing pains and will go away and improve with further break in running PLEASE let me know! I've got too much invested and DO enjoy watching it run to relagate the Engine to a dust collector on the mantle... I wanna SEE it RUNNING and pulling the 7 car heavyweights I bought to go with it! ....PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!









No cylinder cocks, so clear the cylinders as you describe then take it for a spin around the "level" track. We has posted several youtube videos of a Aristocraft pulling many cars up a 1% grade on a properly designed layout (gradual grade) without a problem. You could place a pipe into the stack to direct the condensation away from the engine or place a cloth over the stack to absorb the steam "spit.



Your thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.... Deano

Other help can be easily found with a search of many past posts on MLS.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristo is emfatic that Butane is the ONLY fuel to use in this locomotive.....WHY 

Liabilty insurance. 
Propane/butane mixes produce a much higher pressure in the fuel tank, which in theory could break. (Unlikely to explode - and there has been no report of one ever doing so - but the seam might start to leak and split.) 

Accucraft 'recommends' butane only for the same reason, but many of us run butane/propane 'Gaz' from the camping store with no problems - plus it works better at low temperatures.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

If you do go with a butane/propane mix, I would not go with a mix of more 30% propane, and DO NOT use straight propane! Some of the first-run Mikados had issues with the gas tanks splitting due to using HOT water instead of WARM water in the water bath, so there are known weaknesses in the design, and the higher vapor pressure of propane would be a very real concern with these things. 

I get my butane from a local Asian grocery store, where I can get a four-pack of 8-oz cans for about $6.00. You will need to get the valve adapter though, or the alternative is to remove the tender body to give you free access to the filling valve, then put it back on again when you're done fueling up. (Been there done that, it gets old fast!) 

I would also echo what Charles said about tightening up the safety to lift at 60 psi. I've pulled a 45-car train with mine, and only stopped there because I ran out of cars to put behind it!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

As per Richard's mention of "warm" water around the fuel tank, that also can be a problem causing a drop in steam pressure. We have install a steam line into the water bath area allow for the tank to stay warm (not hot) thus keep good gas flow and thereby proper BTU out of the jets. Richard's concept of a larger gas tank along with getting rid of our stock electronics produced a bettersetup.









Below is a goodall valve to top off water 











Our first install of the new fuel tank. Learn from another steam master, Larry Herget, (along with experience) that a single loop under the tank was 
enough to keep the gas happy. 









Proof of running in temperatures that once were best only for alcohol fired engines


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles has some good advice. Follow that and you will do fine. He did a line back to my tender for me. 90% of the Mikes problems 
seem to stem from the water bath getting cold, keep a syringe, with some silicon tubing on it with a short piece of metal tubing 
on the end. You can use it to inject warm water into the water bath easily. DON"T use that metal funnel, you will spill water on 
your electronics, then you really have problems. I think your curves are too small. I have a 20'' diameter and you can see it slow down a little 
bit on them. I had 15' diameters before and I had to race down the straights to get around the curves. Getting the safety to pop at about 
50 lbs is better also.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

First and foremost just remember not to over heat the butane or the 30/70 mix. In either case you will blow the tank. Don't ask how I know but it will happen and then try and find a replacement. Ha Good luck. Later RJD


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## ikots (Oct 7, 2009)

Thank yor all for some great comments to my dilema. So I really have no choice other than to purchase this fuel valve from Aristo....Drat...oh well







...I'll certainly look into tightening the Safety Valve to increase the pressure. As for changing the Radius...no can do... Layout is already in place and it's not mine but my Sister's Kids' Empire now that I've built it for them I don't see her letting me expand it to operate this single engine. I'll simply have to keep tweeking per your expert advice in an attempt to get optimum power with my limited resourses. 

WHERE can I find the refill bottle and Goodall Valve for the Boiler? Aristo doesn't have them and attempts to find the kit has produced nill results. I think I'll stick to the as-designed Tender and use Butane for now until I gain some experience. I may attempt the Butane/Propane mix later but thanks for the warnings against pure propane I certainly don't want to damage the welds. 

NOW....What about the leaks at the cylinders and Steam chest? Will it hurt to tighen them? Or...should I run it some more and see if the leaks seat and seal themselves? I do want to risk blowing the cylinder seals from making the system TOO TIGHT!







Cause THAT would suck after all that's been spent to this point. 

Thank you all for the warm welcome! I live near Harrisburg, PA....And HAVE thought about joining the Susquehanna Valley Garden Railroad Club. I'm also an in-active member of the Yokohama Live Steam Club in Japan from when I was stationed there with the Navy YEARS ago... I was privilaged to see some very interesting developments and improvements back then. Aster Locomotive was only a few City Blocks from the Club and was and I'm sure Still is used to test new releases and pre-production models.... Sadly I never had the funds to get my own loco then or I'd have bought the Classic Aster Pennsy K4.... I didn't manage to obtain one of the More recent Khando K4's but It's still un opened in it's crate.... Perhaps Later?

....Deano


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Dean, 
Don't worry about the leaks. Just normal. The safety blows down on top of the front driver on each side, so you may be seeing that also. Tubes run 
down the side of the boiler(under the plastic shell). Aristo's Goodall seems to be of their own design, so not sure you can get a bottle/fitting 
other than one of theirs, or replace their Goodall with one that you can find. Could post on the Aristo steam forum looking for a bottle.


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## ikots (Oct 7, 2009)

Hey Y'all...Deano here back again ran the mike again today and the change of the "bath water" seemed to aid the firing... However it still doesn't have much power as what I've seen in the videos. I did however stumble upon a possible cause if not just part of the problem. After the run and allowing the loco to cool before draining.... I accidentally popped open the smoke box door. I didn't know it opened.... Anyway... There's a Screw or bolt in there at the end of the boiler...it was a full turn loose... Does anyone know what it's for? Also... where is the adjustment for the safety valve? Do I need to disassemble the shell to access it or am I just not looking hard enough? Thanks in advance for your insight and assistance! Deano


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## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

The power should improve as it breaks in - a lot is being wasted at the start in polishing those cylinders, etc. The screw head removes the plug which then lets you look into the firebox. If really loose, it might affect draft. The safety is built in to the filler cap, find a small blade screwdriver and turn the screw recessed in the center about a quarter turn at a time.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

The safety is under the front dome. Unscrew the top, you will see a fitting with two small holes. I file/bent the little silver tool with two prongs on it to fit, that will turn it fine, or a pair of dividers. Screw it down to increase pressure, like George said try a 1/4 turn at a time. I doubt the loose plug in front would have any effect, except get heat to the plastic to melt it. I have a bit of plumber's solder cloth for insulation in there, and around the metal smokebox. I also sealed up the gap between the smokebox and boiler.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Bumping the presure up to about 50 gives you a lot better performance. If you have all level track it should pull well. I had 15 hopper behind mine and ran great. My RR had 10 ft curves and runs well around it. Most problem is where I do have a few 8ft and it will slow but also there is a slight grade there also. Later RJD


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## ikots (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks for the assist fellows! I'll have to take yet another look this w/e and get back to you on performance. Jerry, I took a look at your website..... Now I see what you meant about not taking it TOO seriously.... That rocket car is a true gem! If they were still around I'm sure you'd get cudo's from AW-NUTS group with their whimsical tastes! I've always wanted to locate a PT Cruiser with the correct wheel base and convert it into an inspection car. When Jeese James was still producing his MONSTER GARAGE series they built a railracer from a PT and pitted it against a Steamer ... Sadly it derailed before it finished the race as one of the wheels had a worn flange. Getting back to your website I was blown away by your work with the Zephyr! I didn't know they were even made in G-gauge/45mm! And your detailing and interiors are top-notch! Wow! 
...Deano 

PS: What the heck is the little pronged tool in the toolbag really for anyway? I can't figure it out!


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## ikots (Oct 7, 2009)

I'd like to share some photo's of what we've (mainly me) have accopmplished on our VERY little railroad.... How do I get them into the forum as you have done with the Mikado Shots? ....Deano


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ikots on 12 Oct 2009 10:26 PM 

PS: What the heck is the little pronged tool in the toolbag really for anyway? I can't figure it out! Deano,

The little tool is used to adjust the piston valves to change the timing. If you take off the cover from the front of the valve chest (three bolts) you can see the corresponding holes that the prongs fit into. In regards to your question about the steam leaks, there are a pair of nut drivers in your black tool bag, each has two ends for different sized hex ends. Find the one that fits the leaking bolts and snug them up while the engine is warm, this way you can see if you have fixed the leak or not. 


The safety valve should be adjusted under steam, in order to get an accurate setting.


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## gwscheil (Aug 6, 2008)

I forgot about the second safety valve. I see the filler valve on my Gen 2 loco requires a wrench to tighten the nut inside the cap while you use the screwdriver to keep the stem assembly from turning. Just wish that stem had a passageway drilled so the Goodall would function. They kept the piece of silicone tubing - just no hole for the water. And Aristocraft seems to be always out on the Goodall version parts.


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## ikots (Oct 7, 2009)

Thank you all for the tips and suggestions with my Aristo Mike. I got the boiler set at 55psi on the safety valve. However, the combination of 8ft radius and leaks in the steamchest and cylinders prevent further possibility of operating with any satisfaction. Any thoughts about pre-storage maintenance? ....Deano


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ikots on 18 Oct 2009 08:51 PM 
Thank you all for the tips and suggestions with my Aristo Mike. I got the boiler set at 55psi on the safety valve. However, the combination of 8ft radius and leaks in the steamchest and cylinders prevent further possibility of operating with any satisfaction. Any thoughts about pre-storage maintenance? ....Deano










Pre-storage? Are you talking about winterizing? The winter time is when I like to run the most. Big steam plumes. Anyhow, you'll get all kinds of suggestions on how to layup the engine for storage (wet layup, dry layup, pickled, with cheese and relish, etc). Just make sure it doesn't freeze (keep it inside).

Have you tried running it for a while on rollers or up on blocks?

I wish I would have let you talk me into making one of your trips to the Yoko live steamers, but alas I was into steam boats at that time.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I keep my live steamers in the house. I do always empty the boiler. After a run I usually put in new steam oil, while it's warm and wipe it down. 
If you plan to sell/ship it, I would empty out everything, let all the gas out of the tank also.


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## ikots (Oct 7, 2009)

Jerry: I've certainly NO plans to sell it by any means.... It's just that it'll require more tinkering than I'm able to accomplish just now with limited (as in Non-existant) resources... I'm convinced that I can overcome the problems with the leaks and the adjustment to the safety valve went very well. Steam is lost after the throttle valve as she'll hold 55psi w/o trouble. Once I've got proper facilities of my own again to work I'd like to make all the refinements you and the others have offered. I found a VERY short (12 sec) youtube video that mentions further sealing of the firebox to keep in more heat as well as modifying the smokestack to get a better BARK.... I did like the results... Almost sounded like a 1 1/2" scale Pennsy M1 I've seen operate here in PA. If I can locate the video again I'll put up the link here.

Dave: You'd have enjoyed the Yokohama Live Steam Club... I did take along Thom Deane and his family a couple times. Thom's son Marc even was permitted by Mr Wada (the fellow with the 1:32 Live Diesel GP7/9s) to operate his Aster Grasshopper... That was cool! Mr Wada had some Great Innovations with those GP's ...Sadly they're all scooped up and sold. I'd consider trading off some equipment to get one in Pennsy! Of course that would mean going through my storage stash to locate said equipment..... It's too damned cold for that NOW! I'll have to wait for the spring thaw!







....

I'll keep the Mike indoors as you guys have suggested and tinker as I can over the Winter as time permits. I don't have rollers to test with but I'm sure I can build-up a suitable testing rack to try and work out those pesky leaks. If things work out and I finally get some power from the old girl she'll push the wedgeplow with the first snowfall... If not the 'Lectrics will have to step in again this year! I've yet to test out my E8's! Hmmm









Here's Steam in Yer Eye







.....Deano


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## ikots (Oct 7, 2009)

Here's an update for anyone interested ... I did manage to work out a few of the trouble spots with my Mike.... I even have a friend who was kind enough to put the results of my tinkering on You tube look under "Floamman". We just had the old girl down at the ECLSTS Steam up with the Aikenback Live Steamers (Thanks to Mike and the Gang for a GREAT time) FLOAMMAN also posted some video of this recent trip as well as his own latest addition of a RUBY to his roster (It's the one pushing his home built Wedgeplow). Anywho, she's still got her quirks (got a bit messy at ECLSTS from sitting a bit)... But I've found that once she's warmed up and blown herself clear, she not a bad runner. Gotta re-oil those Tender Journals again though as you'll hear in the video. ... Keep'em steamy....  Deano


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