# I'm REALLY stuck.... OT/NT rant, don't read



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

It seems they reached a tenative agreement on the $700B bailout, that's nice.... But I'M still stuck. 

A guy ordered 2 kits of me. I had one of them in stock. The other was backordered waiting on flywheels from the foundry (which would rather cast 300# manhole covers to replace the ones stolen by scrappies than 6# flywheels)...Fast forward to last week, the kit is ready to ship...except the customer got antsy and charged the ENTIRE $500 amount (including the value of the merchandise already received) back against his card... So Merchant Services yanks it out of MY account (and doesn't tell me WHY for almost 10 days)... So now I'm in overdraft, fees added to fees. Call merchant services they won't release the $500 back to me until the "customer" clears it, which he won't until I ship the product I no longer have the money to ship (catch 22)... ALSO they aren't responsible for the overdraft fees, they are MY problem. 


Next call is to the bank, explain what's going on. Tell them I really don't agree with their $100 in fees (and mounting) over something I had no control over. Their response was they won't waive the fees because it "wasn't a bank error".... Their only "solution" for "next time" is to apply for a line of credit (which I don't qualify for because I'm in overdraft, and also because I'm self-employed) or open an bounce preventative savings account (with a MINIMUM $1,000.00 deposit) -- If I HAD a spare grand I wouldn't be IN this mess, now would I? 


Next step, going out of business sale? Or bankruptcy plus sue the whole #$%& lot for sending me there? 


Bottom line, screw a lot of people by doing shady things and the government not only bails you out, but will most likely pay at least part of your "golden parachute"...Do nothing wrong, get bit in the a$$ by uncaring people with their stupid inflexible "rules" that are stacked against you, and you can go to he## as far as anybody is concerned...


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

It sounds as if you're going to have to eat the overdraft fees this time. Next time (if there ever is another!) I would advise you to only accept money orders or traveler's cheques _in advance!_ I've been burned by buyers trying to get "a better deal" and I have NO sympathy for them whatsoever! As to the banks and their "little schemes," they have my utter contempt!! I really feel your pain on this one! Chalk it up as a hard lesson learned.........oh yeah, I'd _change your bank!!!_


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Fishy, the buyer should not have been able to retract all payment if he has product and/or no proof of sending anything back?


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Groan...


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 09/25/2008 4:15 PM
Fishy, the buyer should not have been able to retract all payment if he has product and/or no proof of sending anything back?



I agree. We've been through the dispute process a couple of times and the whole MC/V process is one that the vendor is given 30 days to respond before the money is "yanked" out. Our particular bank will usually credit our account with-in 48 hours if the reasoning is legitimate and then deals with the vendor. Kicker is that if the Vendor proves they were not at fault , even if legitimate, they will debit the account the disputed amount.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Fishy? I'm telling the truth here. Want to come read the danged letter? BTW WHICH side of the dispute were you on? If you were the CUSTOMER then you wouldn't know what was actually happening on the other end, would you? If you were the vendor, then I'm glad YOUR bank is so understanding, I wish MINE was. 

Fact: Merchant Services (of Hagerstown Md) took the money out of my account on the 8th (first sign there was a problem was trying to mail some packages the next day and the card for that account wouldn't work.) Fact: I wasn't officially notified WHY the money was taken until a letter from them finally showed up on SATURDAY the 20th when THEY were NOT open (saying I had until the 22nd to respond!). Fact: They say they are holding it "in escrow" "until the matter is settled", which means I do NOT have it -- it HAS been forcibly taken from me WITHOUT my consent, or even prior notification. And BEFORE "due process" (Doesn't that fit the definition of "THEFT"? Except since it is a BANK, they can get away with it.)... NOR it seems will I be allowed to seek redress for the fees that have accrued because of this violation

Further, when I called the lady at Merchant Services, she told me that THEY had "no control" over the amount, because it was the customer's credit card company who presented the $500 chargeback. In the explanation letter it said IN WRITING that he had received a partial shipment. It also went on to say he had tried to contact me "numerous times" by email and phone (the last allegedly on Sept 5), and that I hadn't responded...except that I didn't GET any emails or phone calls from him.




People look at the "consumer protection" crap that the card companies spew as a GOOD thing. Except when you charge back it is taken directly and immediately from the vendor, who took the card in good faith BEFORE they ask ANY questions...even the one "is this chargeback legitimate?" ...(the CARD company is only a "facilitator", like evilBay claims to be, THEY aren't going to absorb the loss)...I'm sure permission to do this is buried SOMEWHERE in the 50+ page legaleze "merchant agreement"... just like the part where you're SUPPOSED to take the card the same as cash, even if they want to charge 68c and you have a $2.00 transaction fee PLUS about 3%.... If you see more and more places NOT taking cards, that's a BIG part of why. I'm certainly going to re-evaluate the cost/benefit of accepting them.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By cmjdisanto on 09/26/2008 6:18 PM
Posted By Spule 4 on 09/25/2008 4:15 PM
Fishy, the buyer should not have been able to retract all payment if he has product and/or no proof of sending anything back?



I agree. We've been through the dispute process a couple of times and the whole MC/V process is one that the vendor is given 30 days to respond before the money is "yanked" out. Our particular bank will usually credit our account with-in 48 hours if the reasoning is legitimate and then deals with the vendor. Kicker is that if the Vendor proves they were not at fault , even if legitimate, they will debit the account the disputed amount. 




*My thoughts too. There was one time where there was zero satisfaction on a transaction I made with a vendor I HAD used before (not train related). Ordered something from them which resulted in lies from the vendor about a back-order (I called the manufactuer directly myself, no such back order!), then told the first unit did not pass inspection, new parts ordered (backorder claimed again), new set made, final inspection, AND THEN they still sent me the original broken unit. *

*Next were lies about call tickets to pick it up (with me wasiting my time and gas to go to UPS to have them tell me the call number was no good!) so as I LAST resort of weeks of garbage, I called the card company. *

*Mastercard (Bank America) said I had to have proof (delivery confirmation) that I had sent it back before anything could be done. *

*Another friend that works in top management for a card processing company says it is about impossible to do a charge back for legt reasons, but a lot of wierd stuff makes it through.*

*I have a feeling that Mr. Mik has not been treated fairly by the card company? *

*A friend had something simlar happen tho early in his buisness (with a check for an engine for a vintage import car) that the owner of the car put a stop on for some reason (I think he was out a day or two sick or the like, so the car owner thought he had skipped town) and then in turm my friend wrote several (unintentional) bad checks. About put him under.*

*Edit, not sure why this is broken up, probably the new editor?*


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 09/26/2008 8:11 PM
Fishy? I'm telling the truth here. Want to come read the danged letter? BTW WHICH side of the dispute were you on? If you were the CUSTOMER then you wouldn't know what was actually happening on the other end, would you? 

*See above, did not know I had to pick a side (even tho I was on yours?????)*


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 09/27/2008 8:43 AM

*See above, did not know I had to pick a side (even tho I was on yours?????)*





Sorry guys, guess I'm just a lil touchy.... STILL getting the runaround and that "uh-huh, SURE" voice from the people at the other end. 

I think in the process I've found a few MORE of those people who flunked out of the IRS's charm school (the rest seem to work for the student loan servicing places).


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Got a notice in today's mail... Says I have 10 days to deposit money to cover the overdraft plus fees, or they will close the account and report me to the national banking system and the all the credit reporting people, plus send me to collections.... so much for working WITH me to resolve ANYTHING.


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Mik, 

May we know the name of the bank in question, so that we may avoid dealing with them in the future?


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Then you run there with your paycheck, that you always deposit there, to rescue your account and... 

*the stupid bank applies a 10 day hold to the funds!* 

(happened to me)


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik: BTW, what kind of kits are you selling that included a "6# flywheel"?

Hang in there buddy, things will get better

Bob


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The bank? First Communewea..errr Commonwealth 

I sell model engineering stuff, steam engine kits, gas engine kits, stirling engines, etc. plus steam toys, and wood toys.... For the moment, anyway. 

I've always considered bankruptcy as the coward's or crook's way out -- but I'm starting to consider it so I won't lose my a## as well as my shirt AND pants....


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 09/30/2008 4:59 PM
The bank? First Communewea..errr Commonwealth 

I sell model engineering stuff, steam engine kits, gas engine kits, stirling engines, etc. plus steam toys, and wood toys.... For the moment, anyway. 

I've always considered bankruptcy as the coward's or crook's way out -- but I'm starting to consider it so I won't lose my a## as well as my shirt AND pants....




But hopefully not at the short term loss of the amount of $500?

Anyhow, have a website/catalog of your stuff?


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.catfish-hollow.com (Shad if you don't allow that, just remove it)... 

And it's not JUST the $500, it's been a pattern of huge bank fees over stupid stuff all summer (Mostly things like automatic withdrawals being run through one day and the deposit I made to cover it not being processed till the next...plus this is the second time I've had a chargeback on something that was already shipped...the last one was reversed within 12 hours (guy's wife had signed for it, and hid it from him), but STILL cost me $99 in bounce fees)... The exchange rate playing havoc by causing the wholesale price to jump between when the customer ordered/payed and the supplier invoiced me (nice when it COSTS you more than the guy payed because you're stuck eating the increase)..... PLUS I have a guy who payed some time ago for a ride on locomotive kit, which they shipped minus the boiler (which, he is right, has been on backorder entirely too long, but it seems that the boiler makers in England have an average 2 year backorder, and some have stopped taking new orders altogether)...but nonetheless, he has given me until the 15th of November to pull said boiler out of my ear or refund $4500 or he says he'll sue me AND try to have me arrested for "internet fraud"... 

Meanwhile, the guy who works mornings at my "other" job came in this afternoon and said "I hope you didn't deposit your paycheck!"...seems he tried to cash his at the bank it was written on, and they wouldn't do it because there was insufficient funds in the payroll account!!!.... woo hoo!




To quote Irish comedian Dave Allen, "Don't hit a man when he's down -- Kick him, it's easier!" /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, a lot more in the big picture. I can see why you would be done. A shame about the guy with the loco kit, anyone that knows anything about large scale steam should know that wait times are measured in years or decades... But we are in the land of instant gratification. Do what the engineering company I worked for a few years ago did, close a divison, open with a new name with a new COO, and the lawsuits go away! 

Also, I think someone posted your website on the Mamod site, I have seen it before, neat stuff! 

Thanks for the Allen quote, have not thought of him in years! The PBS station in Cols, Ohio had his show in the 80s. 

This was one of my favorites of his bits: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vku_fKAioUw


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## bryanj (Jan 2, 2008)

Me Too ! Assholes


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

MIK, You know, don't you, that NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED.


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Not easy giving it a go when everyone else takes the cream first.


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