# F-scale Standard Gauge 4-8-4 Northern (cont.)



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Doug Hemmeter sent me the latest batch of photos.  You may recall the original thread, which is here:
F-scale Standard Gauge 4-8-4 Northern



















The loco alongside is the new Bachmann K-27.





































Doug seems to have plenty of chassis left if anyone wants one:


----------



## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Doug, Your Nuts! Crackers! a few fries short of a Happy Meal! 






Spectacular model BTW!


----------



## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Zowie!!!


----------



## Guest (Jan 9, 2008)

that is Sick (in the new modern slang term)

F Scale Rules!


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Unbelievable!!! That is huge, does he plan to ride behind it? Really a beautiful loco.


----------



## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

If Dave or Tony are on here, how many batteries could you put in that tender, wired in parallel of course?


----------



## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

How does it look on R1 curves?


----------



## jwvine29 (Jan 2, 2008)

All I can Say is *WOW! *


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

What an _awesome _locomotive!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif When I saw the K-27 next to it I was flabbergasted! I knew that standard gauge engines made narrow gauge engines look small but I didn't realize just how much!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


----------



## Bryan Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

wow wow wow wow.


----------



## WDH (Jan 10, 2008)

Steve

Good Morning.  You really don't apperaciate the size difference between Standard and Narrow Gauge engines until you them side by side.  It still takes my breath away when i see them side by side and i am working with these beasts every day.   I will be a happy man when the last rivet goes into the last tender and boiler.  just counting rivets there are about 1500 rivets in the boiler and firebox sides and 1700 in the tender and each is applied one at a time!

Have a great day and thanks 

Doug Hemmeter


----------



## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, that's a real monster.  I thought going to Fn3 scale was big. As someone else said, you can't really appreciate how big standard gauge locos are until you put them beside a narrow gauge loco.  
Dave


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

WOW!!


----------



## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Yowzaaaaaaa!!

Bubba


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that Doug has a username, he can probably post or comment on this, but here's the scoop if you want one of your very own.

_Thanks for posting the photos on Mylargescale. For your info we are building four 4-8-4 Northern’s for Gary Bartlow in San Diego. And three are for sale. Minimum radius is 15 feet. All are battery powered, air wire 900 remote control, Phoenix Sound with 2 speakers and Train America Smoke generators. All axles except for the pilot truck have ball bearings and the rods will have ball bearings. 1801 will be the first up and running. 1802, 1803 and 1804 will follow close behind.

_Note:* three are for sale. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif*  Gary's email is gwbartlow(at)cox.net if you want one.

And as far as being big, it's only half the size of a 1" scale loco.


----------



## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, 

If there was a boiler and cylinders in it, I'd have to buy a riding car and take it up to PLS to run on the multi gauge! I;m glad that it is a small-ish northern! Imagine a FEF-3 or CB&Q O-5a! I think I'd need a hydraulic lift just to get it on the rails....I'll stick with 1:32...all you Fn3 guys should go to 32mm scale....it's quaint and less bulk (I can't widen our portable anymore, no more room!)  

Doug 
Wonderful craftsmanship and gorgeous looking engine. Kudos on getting this far and pioneering the new-old scale of 1:20.32.


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Stupendous!


----------



## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

What a project! And what a great job you are doing on it. Got me so inspired, I went over to the shop and put the floor in my 1/20.3 standard gauge B50-14 boxcar. Somehow I don't ever expect to see this beast going around anyone's Christmas tree. 

John


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

That is incredibly sweet. Is the track also a standard width in 1:20.3?


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 01/10/2008 6:12 PM
Is the track also a standard width in 1:20.3?


Yes - 4'  8 1/2".  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif  

Reading between the lines, I guess you mean is there a 'standard' for the track?  Well, yes, it's (56.5/20.3 = 2.78") or roughly 71mm.  
_We use that ".3" because we F-scale guys are serious rivet counters._  _Doug says there's about 3,000 on the firebox side panels, but we wish he'd count them and check the head size.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif
_
Dave Queener did the initial work on track, rail and wheel standards, based on the G1MRA experience.  His website has the details.

Cumberland Model Engineering F Scale Standards


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
F scale is very tempting /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


----------



## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Reminds me of this photo from awhile back ... that could be a Spectrum 4-4-0 there... 

http://www.ghostdepot.com/rg/images/rolling/locomotive/locomotive size comparison d2-4.jpg 


Matthew (OV)


----------



## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Doug 

With beautiful work like that, it figures that you would be a rivet counter. You sure have alot of patience and diligence. Any chance we can have a look of the railroad where this will run? 

Terl


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

F scale is very tempting


Well, yes, if you already have Fn3 narrow gauge models.  But as an engineering exercise, 3/4" scale (3/4" = 1 ft, or 1:16 scale) on 3.5" gauge track is fairly well established.

The photo shows a standard gauge siding adjacent to the narrow gauge mainline on Clem's "Warrior Run" modular layout. (Which I believe will be at Cabin Fever next weekend.) Since I took the photo, clem has extended the 71mm gauge track to the left so the narrow gauge 'escapes' from the dual gauge.  He has a standard gauge boxcar, built from a Saxton 'Budget Boxcar' kit, and he also extended the axles on the B'mann GE 44-tonner so there is a loco on the siding too.


----------



## trainbuffjr (Jan 11, 2008)

That is a VERY IMPRESSIVE locomotive!  Doug did a great job on it.  Just out of curiosity,  how much will it sell for?


----------



## GeorgeMMR (Jan 19, 2008)

Pete,
   Isn't this a lot of fun? I am half-way done with an F scale D&SL 2-6-6-0, for which Dave Queener is widening the mechanisms. I believe there are some photos on his Cumberland site of my completed tender. It really is a different ascpect of this hobby when you start out on the boiler of your newest project with a piece of sewer pipe! And.........may I add my comments on what a great model you have built.
By all means, ALWAYS have fun!
George Konrad


----------



## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

I've seen the tender for George's 2-6-6-0 and it is looking very good. Hopefully he will have the engine at Ontario in June. 

John


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

may I add my comments on what a great model you have built.


George, sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't build such a fine model - it is the work of Doug Hemmeter.


----------



## GeorgeMMR (Jan 19, 2008)

Pete,
  Oops! I guess I have to be less excited and READ these notes more closely. And John, I sure hope to have the loco ready by then. There are a couple of folks involvd in this effort, and I hope that we will both be ready by then.
ALWAYS have fun!
George


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

You folks have to stop tempting me /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif OR&L didn't run a standard guage,,, but for a short period of time S.P. ran both standard and narrow in the area where I currently reside (Santa Cruz). Wouldn't an F scale AC 4 or 12 look nice running in my backyard? Especially if it were live steam


----------



## Josef Rieder (Jan 18, 2008)

Can you ride on it? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

To see some more photos of this build and others ( C-25 ) check out this website: 

http://cumberlandmodelengineering.com/HemmeterGallery.html 

Very impressive work. 

Charles M SA#74


----------



## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

George, 
Be sure to let me know if you'll make it with your 2-6-6-0 at Ontario. If so, I'll make sure to get together the B50-14 boxcar so we can do a display on Del Oro. I think the people will love to see them. 
John


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Some more pics from Doug.  His comments:

"1801 is ready for valve gear installation. Crosshead Guide, crosshead, piston rod, main rod and Eccentric crank are in place. Motor has been mounted. "


----------



## trainmaster1989 (Jan 4, 2008)

That thing is amazing. beautiful work.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

More pictures from Doug Hemmeter... 

Here is the current status - the reverse power cylinder and all of its linkage has been installed. Only a couple of small items to fit then I will swing her around and start on the left side. 



















The left side is almost complete I just have two more linkages to make and connect. I had to remove one pipe run on the boiler since it was hitting the valve pilot and its connection on the crossover shafting. Boiler sits down now and everything is clear. 









All linkage is in place on left and right side. The smoke box supports were fabricated and installed.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

What a magnificent model! The craftsmanship is extraordinary!


----------



## tbug (Feb 16, 2008)

Phenomenal!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

WOW! Jerry


----------



## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Great attention to detail and craftsmanship Pete!


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Great attention to detail and craftsmanship Pete!

I'll pass the message to Doug. Wish I had the tools and the workshop to even attempt something like that!


----------



## DavidQueener (Jan 10, 2009)

Men, 
I've updated the pics of George Konrad's 1:20.3 SG 2-6-6-0 on my website. You can see it here: 

http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/KonradGallery.html 

Cheers! 
Dave Queener


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Abso_freaking_ incredible!! That is museum quality workmanship! (_Smithsonian!!_)


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Holy smokes! That thing is HUGE and looks fantastic!!!

Thanks for sharing.


Raymond


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

* Very nice indeed. 
After I get my 2-10-2 Q class finished, I plan on making a 4-8-4 S class myself. Only in G scale though. 
Lots of fun building the steamers. It take a more steady hand and nerves of steel to build them without any plans. 

Rocky *


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's the latest from Doug. 

_"Here are some additional photos of 1801 on the display stand. New springs have been installed in the tender trucks and we now have compression on the springs. After tender trucks are completed for 1802, 1803 and 1804, full addition will be given to 1801. We will add a flicker board in the fire box and ash pan."_


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete
Maybe Doug could do a photo of his magnificent work with different SG scale locomotives (1:29, 1:32) just for perspective.
Enjoyed such excellent craftsmanship!


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe Doug could do a photo of his magnificent work with different SG scale locomotives 


Charles, 
I know this is a long/old thread, but the first page has several photos of the Northern next to a Bachmann K27, like this one:


----------



## DavidQueener (Jan 10, 2009)

For those of you who would like to see dozens of pics of Doug's 4-8-4 along with a video clip of it being broken in on his roller test stand, I have updated Doug's gallery on my website. You can see it here: 

http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/HemmeterGallery.html 

Cheers! 
Dave


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Amazing work! Humbles me.....


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Very impressive looking loco. Great job. Later RJD


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Honey, how about we get a lathe....


----------



## WDH (Jan 10, 2008)

Hey Guys 
The M-68 project has been a major under taking and there is no way I could do this by myself. I have the support from a great client in Gary Bartlow who has commissioned 4 M-68's and I have had wonderful support from a great team who without their efforts this model and 3 others would not exsist. Bill Brisko did the wheel center masters, Ward Hammond made a lot of the masters for the rods and valve gear and the tender truck side frame panels and cabs. Doug Cockerham assembled the main chassis and machined the wheel centers. Denis Mashburn cast the rods and valve gear parts, David Fletcher did the CAD drawing for the main frames. Jimmy Srenaski is doing the battery, sound, airwire installation and the operating display cases. Trackside details cast the stack. I have done the boilers, pilots, air compressor package and final detail work and assembly. 

Doug Hemmeter


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Humbling! Truly an impressive piece of work! (Have you ever given thought to doing the D&RGW #683 that's at the Colorado Railroad Museum? It's the only Standard Gauge D&RGW steamer left! All others were scrapped.)


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

_Dave Queener updated his web page with photos of the finished model:_ 




















_That's a K-27 next to it. The original (very large) images are at:_ 
*Doug's Northern Side View*

Doug's Northern with K-27[/b]

There are many more photos on Dave's page:[/i]

Doug Hemmeter's Northern Page[/b]

_While you are there, take a look at Jim McDaniel's F scale (1:20.3) standard gauge models:_

Jim McDaniel Gallery[/b]


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want to build a locomotive, these guys have plans of quite a few. You can buy a single sheet, don't have to get the whole package,
AND they will reduce them to 1/29 scale. I just got UP 844 from them, and the Challenger. They have others than UP also. Tenders to. Roger is a good guy to deal with.

http://www.livesteamlocomotives.com...wings.html


----------



## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Truly exceptional work. Although we all express it differently (those of us that have it) it's great to see this kind of passion for the steam locomotive.

Thanks for sharing the photos with us.


Raymond


----------



## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 19 Sep 2009 09:48 AM 
That's a K-27 next to it. #375 is a C-25, not a K-27. Sort of similar and railfans sometimes refer to the C-25 as a baby Mudhen (Mudhen is a K-27). Just wanted to clarify. 

That is one massive 4-8-4! Gorgeous


----------



## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Wow, what a beautiful and impressive loco! 

George Konrad's mallet is a fantastic beast too.


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

That is some seriously beautiful engineering!! A question though, who's modeling F scale standard guage besides this guy?


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

A question though, who's modeling F scale standard guage besides this guy? 

Mark, 

Not a lot of folk are building serious layouts, but there are a few std gauge 'feeder' tracks. If you peruse the rest of Dave's website you'll find several. 

The Bachmann GE 40-tonner center cab diesel is fairly easy to convert to std gauge and the prototype was delivered in either form. (You just lose the outside connecting rods.) Clem's "Warrior Run" layout, which you can see at various shows around the NE, has a std gauge boxcar and diesel along the back of the station.


----------



## DavidQueener (Jan 10, 2009)

Hi Men, 

Here's an update on some of my own projects--namely the F scale standard gauge freight cars that I have been working on over the last several years: 

http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/Dave'sFreightCars.html 

There are other updates in the works as well. 

All for now, 

Dave Queener 
Knoxville, TN


----------



## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

Boy what an example of beautiful work, but how frustrating as to how it is displayed on this site. The posts have run from 1/9/08 to 10/17/09, but over half the pictures and links are gone. Modeling to this quality takes time. Is it really that impractical to have the pictures stay available, at least, until the project is complete?


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I followed the links to the various websites and was suitably impressed! George Konrad's F Scale masterpiece; and incredible piece of work! Has it been painted and lettered yet and are there any pictures? It would be fun to start a thread whereby everyone could post pics of F Scale standard gauge projects that have been completed, are in the process of being built or are just something you are contemplating! F Scale really _isn't_ that big! I can give you two words that will put this all into perspective: _Live Steam!_ 1:20.3 is smaller than 3/4" scale and 70.64mm is narrower than 3 1/2" gauge which is a standard size in Live Steam! You just need more room to move about is all! Personally, I would _love _to see D&RGW #683 in F Scale! It's about the size of a ng Mikado so it should do well without massive radius curves...


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rgolding on 18 Oct 2009 06:50 AM 
Boy what an example of beautiful work, but how frustrating as to how it is displayed on this site. The posts have run from 1/9/08 to 10/17/09, but over half the pictures and links are gone. Modeling to this quality takes time. Is it really that impractical to have the pictures stay available, at least, until the project is complete? Ric

While I understand the frustration part, just who is it other than the individuals making the posts that have control over the longevity of the information lost when the photographs disappear. And I surely don't see how you can infer this is unique to "this site", it's indicative of the Internet and electronic media


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

how frustrating as to how it is displayed on this site. 

Ric, 

Mea Culpa. I posted most of the pics from my 1st class space, but I ran up against the space limit and deleted a whole bunch of photos. These photos are also on Dave's website, so I figured they wouldn't be missed. [I also didn't think the thread would be active for so long!] 

*http://www.cumberlandmodelengineeri...llery.html* 

Humblest Apologies.


----------



## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

That thing looks big enough to ride on!


----------



## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

The comparison shot with a narrow gauge 2-8-0 is really telling! Now _that _is F Scale baby!!:


----------



## DavidQueener (Jan 10, 2009)

George Konrad has sent me a couple of photos of his painted D&SL 2-6-6-0 mallet in 1:20.3 standard gauge, plus a pic each of his scratchbuilt Pennsy flat and D&SL caboose. You can view them, here, bottom of page: 

http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/KonradGallery.html 

And if you would like to see some of my older work, I have also added additional pics to my Gauge 3 page: 

http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/Dave'sGauge3.html 

Cheers! 

Dave Queener, 
Knoxville, TN


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Doug distributed this photo of the final product this week. Here's his email:

"HERE IS A PHOTO OF 1801, A M-68 CLASS 4-8-4 USED BY THE D&RGW. MODEL IS 1:20.3 WEIGHTS CLOSE TO 60 LB AND IS 5 FOOT LONG. MIM RADIUS 18 FT. DELIVERY IS SET FOR JANUARY 10

Happy New Year to All"


----------



## trainguy111 (Sep 7, 2010)

Just a question, would it be possible to make a Canadian National X-10 4-6-4T in F scale?


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By trainguy111 on 10 Jan 2011 05:54 AM 
Just a question, would it be possible to make a Canadian National X-10 4-6-4T in F scale?




of course..its possible to make *anything* in *any* scale! 
I dont quite understand the question..

Scot


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

would it be possible to make a Canadian National X-10 4-6-4T in F scale?

As Steve said - of course it is possible. But you need a lot of special skills and tools. Spoked driving wheels are the usual killer - although some of the UK suppliers have 1:22.5 wheels for std gauge locos [lots more spokes than narrow gauge engines.]

Remember there is nothing else in F scale standard gauge. Dave has freight car wheels, and Don has a 36' boxcar kit and some track pieces, but that's it. No coaches, ready-to-run equipment, caboose, etc.


----------

