# coal fired Accucraft K-28



## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Has anyone heard or seen details about this model? Is there a test model? Do you think that they will get the engineering right?


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jim Overland on 16 Sep 2011 09:29 AM 
Has anyone heard or seen details about this model? Is there a test model? Do you think that they will get the engineering right? 
Cliff has had the prototype and has run it. Give him a call and he will give you the run down on the engine.


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## amelton1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hello from Australia. 
I have been running gas fired British outline live steam for the last year and have decided to take the plunge and place an order with my local dealer for one of these engines. I would appreciate it if anyone can provide further details on this model and coal firing such a large engine in general. 
Thanks & regards 
Andrew


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

* Coal firing is great !! Lots of fun, but you do have to allot more time to do it then alcohol or butane. I hope that you will have somebody that can teach you some of the tricks of coal firing hands on when you get your engine. I was lucky. I had Dave (use coal) Young. It's not the deep dark hard to do part of this hobby that most think it is, and he showed me that. If I had to say one bad thing about coal firing............it would be the clean up after. That coal dust likes to get into every nook and cranny.*


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

Should be OK I have talked to Cliff at Accucraft and others. The larger the loco the easier it is to run. 
Tore, who did the K 27 conversions over the last few years helped Accucraft with the modifications and we know that the K28 is already an OK runner. 
The loco is heavy, the whole front end now comes off to clean the flues, and the crown sheet is rather high, so it will be important to keep if filled with water 

jim o


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By amelton1 on 12 Oct 2011 11:15 PM 
Hello from Australia. 
I have been running gas fired British outline live steam for the last year and have decided to take the plunge and place an order with my local dealer for one of these engines. I would appreciate it if anyone can provide further details on this model and coal firing such a large engine in general. 
Thanks & regards 
Andrew 
Hi Andrew,
Firstly, welcome to this group.
Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, why on earth would you want to go over to coal firing?
It smells of ... well a coal fire!
You will have to spend hours cleaning out the tubes and the firebox, as well as the smoke box.
You will drop red hot cinders on your track and set it on fire.
You might get smuts in your eyes.
I beg of you, reconsider and go to ALCOHOL instead!!!
Well, since you've already ordered it, I guess that it's too late, so here is what I have seen and learned over the years from watching.
I should point out that about 30 years ago I watched a coal fired V2 LNER 2-6-2 being run and thought to myself, I would like to do that (coal fire).
Well, I never did, and now I am older and wiser, and decided that it is not something that I wish to do! 
Anyway, from what I see, you will need lots of little containers with different starting fuels in them.
I have seen people with charcoal, kerosene soaked coal, wood bits, and other secret combustibles that they put in their firebox at different times and in different amounts. 
It appears that it is a try this, and try that approach until you find what works for you and that particular loco. 
You will need lots of strange designed scoops and shovels to try and get the coal into what always seems to be too small of an opening.
You must always have you loco pointing the correct way to the way you are standing, or you will never be able to get it in, unless you are truly ambidextrous. 
As Jim says - WATCH THE WATER LEVEL - so very more important I would think on a coal fired loco, as those fires can get very hot. 
Having said that, it does come back to boiler design - hopefully Accucraft have had a 'master' designer involved. 
I don't know, but I would think that it helps to have someone who can show you how to do it at first, as it could be very frustrating if you can't get a good fire and don't know why.
Most of all, ENJOY it, as it should be fun.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Andrew
Welcome to the true "dark"side of live steam! Having been coal firing since heating with a coal stove in our house the thrill of doing so both in gauge one, 7 1/4 along with my son experience of 1:1 Polish trip there is nothing so true as the ability to successfully coal fire an engine.


Having been through the trials many times of coal firing sessions there are many myths such as: 


You will have to spend hours cleaning out the tubes and the firebox, as well as the smoke box. 

Never have spent "hours" cleaning any coal fired locomotive



You will drop red hot cinders on your track and set it on fire.
Probably worst with alcohol fires on ties


You might get smuts in your eyes.
One might get a set of stinging eyes from alcohol vapors


I beg of you, reconsider and go to ALCOHOL instead!!!


Well try it either way but the aspect of being both a true engineer and fireman is rewarding once you have the experience and technique. Just remember every engine is a bit different and then there are just days one wishes they were running electric (even for alcohol fired engines).

The suggestion of getting together with an experience, capable coal firing hobbyist is a great way to learn the in's and out's of getting those black diamonds to glow red and the dragon to breathe fire!

There are also several videos on youtube.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 13 Oct 2011 06:37 PM 
Posted By amelton1 on 12 Oct 2011 11:15 PM 
Hello from Australia. 
I have been running gas fired British outline live steam for the last year and have decided to take the plunge and place an order with my local dealer for one of these engines. I would appreciate it if anyone can provide further details on this model and coal firing such a large engine in general. 
Thanks & regards 
Andrew 
Hi Andrew,
Firstly, welcome to this group.
Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, why on earth would you want to go over to coal firing?
It smells of ... well a coal fire!
You will have to spend hours cleaning out the tubes and the firebox, as well as the smoke box.
You will drop red hot cinders on your track and set it on fire.
You might get smuts in your eyes.
I beg of you, reconsider and go to ALCOHOL instead!!!
Well, since you've already ordered it, I guess that it's too late, so here is what I have seen and learned over the years from watching.
I should point out that about 30 years ago I watched a coal fired V2 LNER 2-6-2 being run and thought to myself, I would like to do that (coal fire).
Well, I never did, and now I am older and wiser, and decided that it is not something that I wish to do! 
Anyway, from what I see, you will need lots of little containers with different starting fuels in them.
I have seen people with charcoal, kerosene soaked coal, wood bits, and other secret combustibles that they put in their firebox at different times and in different amounts. 
It appears that it is a try this, and try that approach until you find what works for you and that particular loco. 
You will need lots of strange designed scoops and shovels to try and get the coal into what always seems to be too small of an opening.
You must always have you loco pointing the correct way to the way you are standing, or you will never be able to get it in, unless you are truly ambidextrous. 
As Jim says - WATCH THE WATER LEVEL - so very more important I would think on a coal fired loco, as those fires can get very hot. 
Having said that, it does come back to boiler design - hopefully Accucraft have had a 'master' designer involved. 
I don't know, but I would think that it helps to have someone who can show you how to do it at first, as it could be very frustrating if you can't get a good fire and don't know why.
Most of all, ENJOY it, as it should be fun.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada

Great observations David. Also, they are always sitting there crunching the coal and charcoal into little bits that will fit in the firebox. And it is a dirty business, just like the real thing. But it's fun to watch. Alcohol has it problems too, as in the smell and burning of the eyes. It smells like a doctors office when they are lighting up. And then there is always that person that spills the stuff on the track under the engine and doesn't realize it has caught fire and is melting the ties and the paint on the engine. I think I prefer to stick with gas.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I have nothing against coal firing locos, except to say if I'm going to go through the trouble of shoveling coal into a firebox, the loco had darned well better be pulling me while I'm doing it!  (I'm sure a K-28 would be up to the task, but most elevated tracks are not.) 

My grandfather once told the story of B&O and Pennsy firemen running up the NE corridor out of DC. The B&O locos were equipped with stokers, while the Pennsy locos were not. The Pennsy firemen would be shoveling like mad, the B&O fireman calmly reached up and turned a knob which sped up the stoker. Ain't nothin' wrong with using fuel technology to your advantage.  Enjoy your fire-breathing dragons, no matter what they eat. 

Later, 

K


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

You could always be methodical, take your time and not spill/have a fire on a track. What do I know though?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 13 Oct 2011 08:40 PM 
The B&O locos were equipped with stokers, while the Pennsy locos were not. The Pennsy firemen would be shoveling like mad, the B&O fireman calmly reached up and turned a knob which sped up the stoker. Ain't nothin' wrong with using fuel technology to your advantage.  Enjoy your fire-breathing dragons, no matter what they eat. 

Later, 

K 
Which brings us to another point.
Has anyone with a larger G1 coal fired loco ever tried to build a 'mechanical stoker' of any sort?
How about in 7 1/2"?
But then that would take out the fun of trying the get those blasted bits of coal in that little door, and maybe even burning the hairs off your hand.!!
Oh yes Andrew, I have seen people with vacuum cleaners sucking all the bits out of their locos too.
Better add one of those to your list, and don't use the household one.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

* Some tips:*


*Get your coal from Coles power models. Its the Welsh stuff. Cut it into about pea (the vegetable) size. Get some wood charcoal (not briquettes) and cut it into small chunks too. Soak those in lighter fluid. Fill soaked charcoal into the fire box up to the bottom of the flues. Light with a suction fan in stack with good batteries. Needs a good draft. Shut door. Peek in a few minutes later and if flame is roaring, load in more soaked charcoal. Charcoal burns faster then coal, so keep piling it on until it is glowing bright orange. You should now have enough pressure to turn on the blower. Coal has to get extremely hot to light, so with your next shovel of soaked charcoal add a little coal in with it. Remember that at this stage a good draft helps with a hotter fire. It is good to have a goodall valve on engine so you can easily add water while all this is going on with a squirt bottle. Beats pumping from tender. About a minute later add soaked charcoal again, this time with more coal added. By now the engine will be begging to go. My track is about 160 foot a lap. I let her go..........after only a couple of laps I stop and now add only coal. After a few more laps I add coal again. By this point, charcoal is gone and only coal is burning. From now on its run and add coal and make sure axle pump is keeping water level up and you can run until you get worn out. I am a true coal novice but this works for me. It probably breaks many "coal firing" rules but it is how Dave taught me. If it sounds complicated , its not. The trick is the roaring hot charcoal fire at first (before the coal) and plenty of draft.*


*Folks talk about orange fire, black fire, air pockets through the fire in the fire box, all kinds of different coal, use charcoal, don't use charcoal, use paraffin only, not lighter fluid, use lighter fluid, light with a special stick with small soaked rag attached, light with a lighter, etc., etc. You get the picture............there is alot of hooey spread around out there in steam land about coal firing.*


*Its not as hard as people make it out to be. I do agree though, it is more work at clean up and you do have to watch your engine closer. I guess shoveling coal during the run is more work too then just watching your engine run until it runs out of alcohol or gas and stops. *


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 13 Oct 2011 09:59 PM 
Posted By East Broad Top on 13 Oct 2011 08:40 PM 
The B&O locos were equipped with stokers, while the Pennsy locos were not. The Pennsy firemen would be shoveling like mad, the B&O fireman calmly reached up and turned a knob which sped up the stoker. Ain't nothin' wrong with using fuel technology to your advantage.  Enjoy your fire-breathing dragons, no matter what they eat. 

Later, 

K 
Which brings us to another point.
Has anyone with a larger G1 coal fired loco ever tried to build a 'mechanical stoker' of any sort?
How about in 7 1/2"?
But then that would take out the fun of trying the get those blasted bits of coal in that little door, and maybe even burning the hairs off your hand.!!
Oh yes Andrew, I have seen people with vacuum cleaners sucking all the bits out of their locos too.
Better add one of those to your list, and don't use the household one.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada

As a matter of fact we had a member of L. A. Live Steamers, who had a 7.5 inch gauge ten-wheeler with a mechanical stoker. This has been 25-30 years ago and I believe he has passed on. But it was extremely efficient.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 13 Oct 2011 10:09 PM 


*Some tips:*


*Get your coal from Coles power models. Its the Welsh stuff. Cut it into about pea (the vegetable) size. Get some wood charcoal (not briquettes) and cut it into small chunks too. Soak those in lighter fluid. Fill soaked charcoal into the fire box up to the bottom of the flues. Light with a suction fan in stack with good batteries. Needs a good draft. Shut door. Peek in a few minutes later and if flame is roaring, load in more soaked charcoal. Charcoal burns faster then coal, so keep piling it on until it is glowing bright orange. You should now have enough pressure to turn on the blower. Coal has to get extremely hot to light, so with your next shovel of soaked charcoal add a little coal in with it. Remember that at this stage a good draft helps with a hotter fire. It is good to have a goodall valve on engine so you can easily add water while all this is going on with a squirt bottle. Beats pumping from tender. About a minute later add soaked charcoal again, this time with more coal added. By now the engine will be begging to go. My track is about 160 foot a lap. I let her go..........after only a couple of laps I stop and now add only coal. After a few more laps I add coal again. By this point, charcoal is gone and only coal is burning. From now on its run and add coal and make sure axle pump is keeping water level up and you can run until you get worn out. I am a true coal novice but this works for me. It probably breaks many "coal firing" rules but it is how Dave taught me. If it sounds complicated , its not. The trick is the roaring hot charcoal fire at first (before the coal) and plenty of draft.*


*Folks talk about orange fire, black fire, air pockets through the fire in the fire box, all kinds of different coal, use charcoal, don't use charcoal, use paraffin only, not lighter fluid, use lighter fluid, light with a special stick with small soaked rag attached, light with a lighter, etc., etc. You get the picture............there is alot of hooey spread around out there in steam land about coal firing.*


*Its not as hard as people make it out to be. I do agree though, it is more work at clean up and you do have to watch your engine closer. I guess shoveling coal during the run is more work too then just watching your engine run until it runs out of alcohol or gas and stops. *


*Those are some good tips on coal firing. My ONLY experience has been with the 7.5 inch gauge steamers, NOT the little stuff. When we start a fire in our Allen Mogul, we use chunks of wood scraps soaked in kerosene and fill the entire firebox in a depth of a inch or inch and a half. Light the fire. After a few minutes with a good wood fire, we start to add coal and continue to add coal until the saftey pops. Coal firing would seem to be more work in the smaller scales because you are not riding behind the engine. Coal firing is an art but it is easily learned and a great deal of satisfaction when it works.*


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 13 Oct 2011 08:40 PM 
I have nothing against coal firing locos, except to say if I'm going to go through the trouble of shoveling coal into a firebox, the loco had darned well better be pulling me while I'm doing it!  (I'm sure a K-28 would be up to the task, but most elevated tracks are not.) 

My grandfather once told the story of B&O and Pennsy firemen running up the NE corridor out of DC. The B&O locos were equipped with stokers, while the Pennsy locos were not. The Pennsy firemen would be shoveling like mad, the B&O fireman calmly reached up and turned a knob which sped up the stoker. Ain't nothin' wrong with using fuel technology to your advantage.  Enjoy your fire-breathing dragons, no matter what they eat. 

Later, 

K Kevin
Here you go. I have also seen a long time ago a video of an operator in Japan riding a flat car behind the Aster Big Boy on elevated track! BTW- on that k27 is Justin (Boilers by Justin) conversion if anyone is interested:


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 13 Oct 2011 10:09 PM 


* Some tips:*


*Get your coal from Coles power models. Its the Welsh stuff. Cut it into about pea (the vegetable) size. Get some wood charcoal (not briquettes) and cut it into small chunks too. Soak those in lighter fluid. Fill soaked charcoal into the fire box up to the bottom of the flues. Light with a suction fan in stack with good batteries. Needs a good draft. Shut door. Peek in a few minutes later and if flame is roaring, load in more soaked charcoal. Charcoal burns faster then coal, so keep piling it on until it is glowing bright orange. You should now have enough pressure to turn on the blower. Coal has to get extremely hot to light, so with your next shovel of soaked charcoal add a little coal in with it. Remember that at this stage a good draft helps with a hotter fire. It is good to have a goodall valve on engine so you can easily add water while all this is going on with a squirt bottle. Beats pumping from tender. About a minute later add soaked charcoal again, this time with more coal added. By now the engine will be begging to go. My track is about 160 foot a lap. I let her go..........after only a couple of laps I stop and now add only coal. After a few more laps I add coal again. By this point, charcoal is gone and only coal is burning. From now on its run and add coal and make sure axle pump is keeping water level up and you can run until you get worn out. I am a true coal novice but this works for me. It probably breaks many "coal firing" rules but it is how Dave taught me. If it sounds complicated , its not. The trick is the roaring hot charcoal fire at first (before the coal) and plenty of draft.*


*Folks talk about orange fire, black fire, air pockets through the fire in the fire box, all kinds of different coal, use charcoal, don't use charcoal, use paraffin only, not lighter fluid, use lighter fluid, light with a special stick with small soaked rag attached, light with a lighter, etc., etc. You get the picture............there is alot of hooey spread around out there in steam land about coal firing.*


*Its not as hard as people make it out to be. I do agree though, it is more work at clean up and you do have to watch your engine closer. I guess shoveling coal during the run is more work too then just watching your engine run until it runs out of alcohol or gas and stops. *

To go along with these and other noted recommendations (yes,I know there is no sound...it is designed so one can stop, read and take notes based on the text throughout):


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

* Great video Charles and Ryan. A picture, or in this case a video is like they say, "Worth a thousand words".*


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I love the idea of coal firing. I saw it in person at Ridge live steamers last year with Andrew's coal fired ruby. Looks and smells good.


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

I run my coal fired (Aster Mikado ) more than all others combined


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