# Ballast System from Locomotion Works



## [email protected] (Apr 13, 2014)

Anybody out there had any experience with the ballast system by Locomotion Works? I bought a sample to try and is easy to work with and sets well. Track seems to be held tightly so my only concern is track expansion. I live in Atlanta and planning to use LGB track.


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## hunteman (Dec 27, 2007)

I have tried the ballast material on my elevated RR. My experience was similar to yours. However, my RR is elevated and I used treated 2x6s as the roadbed. The ballast material seems to stick to my Micro Engineering track. However, the track expansion, and I expect, the expansion/contraction of the roadbed material, resulted in the tack with ballast attached coming loose from the roadbed. Last summer's heavy and frequent rains seems to have caused the ballast to separate from the track. I suspect that the movement of the different material is what caused the ballast to loosen. I am now looking for another solution for ballasting my track. I do not fault the Locomotion ballast, I am convinced that any problems were cause by my RR construction.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Joe, you might post a link for people to see. I have not used it personally, seems to be a light concrete powder mixed in, or perhaps one of those polymeric powerders or the organic one made from seeds.

In general, most people that try to lock the track from moving at all do not succeed. It's basically impossible to keep metal rails from expanding or contracting with temperature.

Some people do succeed though. Try it on a section of track, especially with curves.

I have a friend that lives in Cummings and he has no problems with free floating ballast. 

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Why do you want it held tightly in place? Indoors that is fine, but I think that you are asking for trouble outside. The track will expand and contract, both daily and over the year. 

I knew a person who anchored his track and came out one hot day to discover his rails had separated from the ties. Not a pleasant day for him.

Free floating is my choice, but if you want anchors do it every 4-6 feet. Give it room to move.

Chuck


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

My advice is to NOT glue the ballast down and don't nail the track down.

I used "chicken grit" (the rock type, not crushed oyster shells) by just pouring it over the track and using a short bristle paintbrush to "dress" it down between the ties and make it look pretty along the edges. My track was all elevated 3 to 4 feet in the air on 5.5-inch wide boards with a short (1/4 to 1/2 inch) "fence" of plastic "garden edging" stapled on the sides. The ballast tended to remain mounded around the track and not much blew off or washed away in rain. I lost more of it to small birdies (sparrows and wrens) eating it for grinding food in their gizzards, than I lost from wind and rain.

The track tended to "float" to the surface of the ballast like a cork bobbing to the surface of water, so the ties were often well out of the ballast and adding more ballast to make the ties to be embedded in it didn't last long before it again "floated" to the top. The track just was not heavy enough to sink and look "right" all the time. Sometimes I would lift the track and sweep the ballast out from under it and then sweep it back over the track and re-dress it rather than add more ballast. I had to re-dress maybe every other year and maybe add some ballast here and there if it got "thin" in places.


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## Postalbiker (May 23, 2014)

might seem like a far fetched idea,, but would a small diameter bolt in a slightly enlarged hole in the roadbed with a spring and nut securing it underneath work at all..? as in,, tighten the nut just enough to 'secure' the track in place,, and the spring /slightly enlarged hole would allow for movement without putting too much stress on anything while keeping the track in place,,


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

yes, but unnecessary... once you have good roadbed, you don't need to secure anything.

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If you tie it down to keep if from floating to the surface, you will have to tie down at nearly every tie or it will float between tie downs and you end up with a roly-poly track. If the track floats too high for your sensibilities to accept then you will have to redress the ballast often, but I bet you will soon decide that it looks just fine and you will only mess with it once a year, at most, if at all.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd bet a locomotive that Locomotion Works is using a product called Stabilizer (or a generic version) as the magic compound "power." Stabilizer is a patented natural soil binder. It comes in either a power to mix with or in clear liquid form to spray on top which allows you to control how firm-to-solid you want the material, (comes in smaller quantity than the bag pictured, at least at my dealer.) I think the spray on liquid would be easier and offer better control than mixing in the power for our purposes. 

I installed a crushed granite pathway with my dealers suggestion I use Stabilizer. Packing with a gas power packer(?) made the material solid enough I didn't think I needed Stabilizer. Which means I have never actually used Stabilizer. But you can always buy a small spray bottle of it and give it a try.

You can buy it at most any landscape material supplier. Or; United States - 800-336-2468. Arizona & International - 602-225-5900. Or try Home Depot, etc. to see if they have a generic stabilizer type of product.

I think ballast material plus Stabilizer might be less expensive than Locomotion Works, probably depends...

http://www.stabilizersolutions.com/

















_STABILIZER® WATER BINDING TECHNOLOGY
The only patented natural soil binder formulation. Derived from rapidly renewable organic materials, Stabilizer increases accessibility in natural aggregates. Many products call themselves “stabilizers” but this is the original natural binder trademarked over 30 years ago.

In business since 1982, it all started with the first patented organic soil binder known as Stabilizer®. Stabilizer is credited with creating the entire Stabilized Decomposed Granite and Crushed Stone category. It is the organic soil binder used on more natural pathways and driveways worldwide than any other product. New trends in sustainability make Stabilizer more relevant now than ever._

How does it work?

Integration - Blends into pore space of soil aggregate

Absorption - Absorbs 12 X its weight in water

Cohesion - Forms a cohesive gel that binds soil particles, keeping stability between soil particles during periods of excessive moisture

Balance - Maintains damp soil consistency longer when wet, and slowly releases moisture back into the soil in dry conditions

Stability - All of this equals a more stable and accessible footing for traffic



*PS; Maybe, if you don't want it to stick to a surface like a wood deck maybe put Surran or other plastic food wrap or similar under track before adding ballast. Sun will decompose any exposed so no one will ever know you but your layout together with Surran(sp) wrap. * * ;-))*


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## Daniel Peck (Mar 31, 2009)

Had it on a friends layout.. got to go and chip it away in areas cause of water getting under the track and froze and lifted the track, the edge look like crap a year down the road due to wash out near the ballast, track has to move no matter what and expand. The stuff is made from a concrete base powder added to ballast, Ask him for a MSDS sheet and you will get nothing from him. BUt by law a concrete base material sold must have an MSDS sheet. Heck he does not even have it on his own layout. JMO


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually the stuff Chris presented is as he says, organic, I think it is based on psyllium seed...

and yes, people use powdered cement mixed in

and there is that "poly sand", which is some polymeric stuff.

In all cases, the results are sometimes ok, sometimes traps water and freezes under, sometimes the expansion rips the rails from the track.

You cannot fight physics, metal WILL expand and contract.

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I did a review of this stuff for GR two years ago. I used it on a back corner stretch of my railroad that receives a fair amount of paw traffic from my two so-called "guard dogs." It's held up there fairly well given very specific application criteria.

I agree with others' opinions that using this product on _all_ of your track is perhaps not the best way to do business. However, in areas where the ballast is prone to washing out or gets used as a right-of-way by more than just trains, it's not a bad idea to add some stability.

My suggestion, lay it on fairly thick, and make sure the track is fairly well anchored to begin with. Don't use rail clamps if you're using this stuff, so the rail can slide in and out of the rail joiners as it expands. (If you're running track power, you'll want to jumper the connections.) So long as the track doesn't move around a lot, it will hold up well. If the track raises falls with the seasons (frost heave, sun kinks, etc.) then those natural forces will work against the binder and break it up. 

I just wrote a follow-up review for GR (at the manufacturer's request), and will have photos showing "before" and "two years later." 

Chris, thanks for the link to the Stabilizer product. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. That makes it much easier to "bind" specific pockets of my ballast without having it look entirely different. How does that stuff hold up long term?

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin "this stuff" refers to the OP's question on the original product?

Is it cementitious ?

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Yes, "This stuff" is the Locomotionworks Ballast. For those interested, here's a link to the *published review*. (Note: I believe the link is restricted to subscribers of _Garden Railways_.) Going from what I wrote, the binder is a Portland cement-based binder. 

I will add--the brush they supply is awesome for clearing switches!

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Kevin. I take it that the 116" (one hundred and sixteen inches) in the second sentence is really 1/16" right? ;-)

Greg


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## Daniel Peck (Mar 31, 2009)

This is what it looks like 2 years later on a layout with concrete roadbed. This is the same layout he used in his picture on his website.http://www.locomotionworks.com/Flyer3-1.pdf
2nd page.


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