# Delivery is imminent for Accucraft's 1:20.3 scale WSL Heisler #3



## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

Our highly anticipated 1:20.3 scale West Side Lumber Company Heisler #3 are delivering soon! In fact, the first shipment arrives in the U.S. next week! Once they clear customs we can begin shipping. The second U.S. batch comes hot-on-the-heels of the first. We expect those to arrive and begin shipping to paid orders around middle of April.

If you placed orders in the United Kingdom with Accucraft UK or their dealers; Australia with Argyle Loco/Accucraft Australia; or Germany through MBV Schug: you will be contacted very soon if not already! Our affiliates are receiving theirs direct from our factory.

The WSL Heislers are 100% sold out! We do have a wait list, pending any possible cancellations. 

A big "Thank you!" to buyers who placed reservations early and have been very patient. Very soon you will be rewarded with a beautiful geared locomotive!

Next on the delivery schedule: 1:32 scale Norfolk & Western J-class 4-8-4 #611 in live steam.

Regards,

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains
33268 Central Ave.
Union City, CA 94587
(510) 324-3399


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Hey Rob,

Once again, thanks so much for taking the time to keep our live steam fraternity in the loop on new arrivals. Of course, I am one of those brothers eagerly awaiting the Norfolk & Western J. Can't wait for your upcoming posting announcing that arrival. In the meantime, our LS narrow gauge logging gear heads have something very wonderful to celebrate. Enjoy!

Ross Schlabach


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## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

Ross, thank you for being patient on the N&W J-class #611 project. Your wait is nearly over, only another couple months until delivery begins!

We must also extend our tremendous gratitude and appreciation to Alan Redeker and Mr. Stapleton (Dr. Rivet). Both gentlemen have been absolutely invaluable in their diligence, helping ensure our N&W #611 is rendered as accurately as possible! 

Ross, not sure if you saw this or not: the Winter 2015 issue of Classic Trains magazine features an article on the 'J Juniors', Norfolk & Western's 4-8-2s. Good article, as was the piece titled "Hudson Valley Hot Spot", focusing on several locales along New York Central's scenic Hudson Valley route in the late steam/early diesel era. I found many of the article's excellent b&w images to be excellent, particularly of NYC J-class 4-6-4s in action, also NYC 4-8-4 "Niagaras", along with early diesels such Alco PAs and EMD E-units.

http://ctr.trains.com/issues/2015/winter-2015

Regards, 

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains
33268 Central Ave.
Union City, CA 94587
(510) 324-3399


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

We have the Heisler for sale, that was Accucraft's display at ECLSTS.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Sold it today.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

Ok anyone have thiers, steamed it ? how does it run? duration etc..


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

I got mine, serial #021. . The engine is packed in a wood box that looks to be nailed shut. There are no instructions or indications on the box on how to get into it. After messing with it for an hour with a screw driver and hammer, I discovered that the top just slides off, rather easily. lol..Once the top is off one has to unpack the engine which is strapped to the box. Also you have to remove all the foam, etc. packing. Then the engine just lifts out. It's a beautiful machine and arrived undamaged.

First thing I noticed when I put gas in it was nothing was coming through the nozzle. It was completely plugged. How did they do a live steam test with the nozzle plugged? Anyway, I cleaned it out by blowing gas through it backwards and forwards until it looked cleaned out and I could see light through it. I then finished prepping the engine, oiling every thing, checking for loose screws, filling it with water and steam oil. Then I lit the fire. Pressure came up and I was ready to test run it. I had it suspended on blocks so the wheels just ran free. I found it has trouble keeping the pressure up unless the burner is turned way up. The engine has cylinder cocks. But it still seems to lock up and is hard to get running. Once running it seems to be fine. Typical Accucraft, there are NO INSTRUCTIONS for this engine of any kind. Just a boiler cert and a warranty card. If you are new to the hobby, good luck. I was curious as to how to get the steam dome off to access the safety valve. I think I found it has two tiny allen screws holding it down. Anyway, that is all the time I have had to test it so far. Have not run it on track yet.

Anyone else have theirs, please post more info about it.


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Me too, #9. To add to John's post. My box also sustained a lot of torture from me before I found the magic clue to the lid. Mine had a 2" clear shipping tape on one end of the lid. Remove the tape and slide the lid out that direction. 
The lid was harder for me to remove, seem warped and binding. A hammer and block of wood forced it to slide out.
As far as the cocoon, I was able to *remove the 4 corner nuts and bolts* from the bottom of the case, allowing me to lift the entire cocoon wrappings and sled out of the box. Then it is much easier to remove the wrappings. 
Great wrapping job. Only damage was on 1 cab step ladder stuck out to the side at 90 degrees. Must have happened before it was wrapped because wrapping went around it. 
Haven't run it yet but it looks impressive and surprising large.
Thanks John for the jet suggestion, I'll be watching out for it.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, I have had a chance to run this engine on the elevated track at Zube Park and actually try and pull a short three car train. I have run a #80 drill through the jet and cleaned it out. The engine still does not generate enough steam. Just to maintain minimum pressure the gas has to be turned up to the max until it sounds like a jet plane trying to take off. Any ideas out there? Has anyone else had a similar experience? Thanks.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

jfrank, I was under the impression we should never try to clear the jet with anything other than high pressure gas. Since I don't know what the diameter of the holes are I never tried. Can I ask with all due respect why you used the #80?? and are there possible 'pokers' used to clear the jets like some welders use?? I'd really like to know as I have several jets in spare that also don't seem to function as they are supposed to, without purchasing more. I have noticed several that I purchased, when I hold them to the light the hole is not round and seems to have a projection from one side.
If I may add, could the locomotive possibly need some breaking in??


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, I used the #80 because it was the smallest I had. I have used a tiny wire also to clean out jets, but this one had a hole so small none would fit. I have also just used the gas container pressure and blown backwards and forwards through the jet. The problem with this loco and the reason I went ahead and used a #80 drill bit on it is it wouldn't function anyway, so what did I have to lose. I will have to call Cliff or Jason Monday or Tuesday next week if no one has any ideas.


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

John,
I found the time to service and bench/run my #3 today. Firing was very quick, the flame jump back on the first strike to my amazement. Even stuck my head down on the bench to make sure it really happened. Fortunately I do not have a clogged jet like you do.
Since it is new I took it up to pressure very slowly, 12 minutes. Love the drain cocks, makes clearing the cylinders of water a breeze. I am surprised that their closed position is straight out to the sides. I can see a problem with them hitting track side vegetation and opening. 
Turning up the gas 1/4 turn I ran the loco forward and backward multiple times. It did loose pressure like you mention and the fire sound very loud compared other engines but has a good fire. I did run it very gingerly since it is not broke in yet. 
My "Partner in Crime" and I have scheduled a play day Wednesday and I'll be able to test it on a track and under load. With 3 hearing aids between us it may not sound as loud out doors. Let you know. 
Looking forward to what you hear from the experts, there is always room to improve.
Wesley
PS The Heister does have the usual minor leaks, but they should stop after a few more runs on the engine.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Wesley. I think I just have a problem engine. Now that I have had a chance to run it, everything seems to work fine. It still hesitates before going forward, but that is getting better. I too wondered about the cylinder cocks sticking out. The burner is still too loud and doesn't maintain pressure like it should. I shudder to think about fixing the burner as I think I have to remove the water tank and fuel tank to get too it. Hopefully it is only the jet that is the problem.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

John, thank you for your response. If you have a micrometer can you tell me the diameter of the wire you used on other jets?? thank you.


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

John,
Hope you read this before you call Cliff or Jason.
I got this new theory that we are trying to run the boiler to full by only removing 30-40 ML from full. Boiler hold 320 ML full. but to fill to the top of the sight glass is only 220 ML. Center line of sight glass is even less but still covers the fire tube.
Therefore less water to heat, less time and fuel needed, easier to keep hot, and more room for steam supply.
I'd sure like to hear from the experts.
I'll post my results after my next run.
Wesley


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Well a standard jet from Accucraft is .2mm which is .0078" Same as my #5 Jets. A #80 drill bit is .015. You made a much larger jet and if its still not making pressure there is a different problem. Does your jet have a 1/4" hex on it?


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley, I am no expert, but have done as you suggest on other LS locomotives,to test leak fixes and other modifications, with success for a fast pressure rise. I have never tried it on an actual run for fear of running out of water. 320 mls is no small boiler. Judging it by my 28T THREE CYLINDER SHAY, which only holds 240mls after the suggested 30mil withdrawal, considering the addition cylinder and low gearing of the Shay I would think once you get the Heisler under control the actual run time and distance should be very acceptable. I'm anxious for your report. 
John, my ?? concerning the diameter of the jet openings have been answered, thank you. LG


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason, yes it is a standard Accucraft jet. It just had too small a hole drilled in it and was completely clogged. But after drilling it our etc. it still doesn't seem to generate enough steam. Before calling Cliff, I was hoping to hear from some others that received this engine. I can turn the gas up to the max and keep pressure up, but it then sounds like a jet plain taking off. It's a beautiful engine. So far this jet problem has me baffled. I understand Wesley's suggestion of less water in the boiler which I will try, but I doubt that will make any diff.


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I did get the time to run the Heisler outdoors today. I set it up as I proposed in post #15 with the lower water level (100ML drawn out). Things did in fact run better. Came up to steam faster and when running the PSI stayed between 50-60 with no problem.
NIck, this was an extreme case with 100ML of water drawn out instead of the 35ML (10% of capacity). Since you would have to watch the water glass anyway running was not a problem. I feel this is a great starting point so I'll continue to increase the level looking for a happy medium between the 100-35 and the PSI developed. I got 3 laps around my oval the first time and each sequential time with 20 pumps of the hand pump.
John, I never had to go over the *1/4 turn of the flue valve*. Running full open to me means something is really wrong. Your flame could even be firing far out to the smoke box. 
Very enjoyable Loco to run.
Wesley


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Wesley, now I will have to make that call. No the fires is not out of the smoke box. It is popped back like it should. I have no idea what is wrong. I have a lot of Accucraft engines and I have never had this problem before.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley, sounds like your getting it under control. 
Wesley and John, please keep us posted, thank you.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley, I went back and looked at the engine and I am turning the gas on at less than a quarter turn. I would think a quarter turn is maxed out. It does make a lot of noise. However looking back at the videos of the pilot model, it sounds loud also. Only the video that Jason put out there shows a quite one. What I would like is to find a burner that is much quitter. Also, and I have to look at the engine, I would think the steam line doesn't need to go through the burner for such a short distance. Just makes for future problems.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley, Glad to hear that your Heisler is running well! Will see you tomorrow and we can give it a good run. I found the Goodall conversion part so we can start off with that mod. Winn


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys, let us all know how the run goes. We are in the middle of an epic flood here in the Houston area so it will be a while before I can run it again. My back yard is a lake and the elevated track at Zube Park is flooded. I don't think anyone can even get to the park due to high water.


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## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

jfrank said:


> I got mine, serial #021. . The engine is packed in a wood box that looks to be nailed shut. There are no instructions or indications on the box on how to get into it. After messing with it for an hour with a screw driver and hammer, I discovered that the top just slides off, rather easily. lol..Once the top is off one has to unpack the engine which is strapped to the box. Also you have to remove all the foam, etc. packing. Then the engine just lifts out. It's a beautiful machine and arrived undamaged.
> 
> First thing I noticed when I put gas in it was nothing was coming through the nozzle. It was completely plugged. How did they do a live steam test with the nozzle plugged? Anyway, I cleaned it out by blowing gas through it backwards and forwards until it looked cleaned out and I could see light through it. I then finished prepping the engine, oiling every thing, checking for loose screws, filling it with water and steam oil. Then I lit the fire. Pressure came up and I was ready to test run it. I had it suspended on blocks so the wheels just ran free. I found it has trouble keeping the pressure up unless the burner is turned way up. The engine has cylinder cocks. But it still seems to lock up and is hard to get running. Once running it seems to be fine. Typical Accucraft, there are NO INSTRUCTIONS for this engine of any kind. Just a boiler cert and a warranty card. If you are new to the hobby, good luck. I was curious as to how to get the steam dome off to access the safety valve. I think I found it has two tiny allen screws holding it down. Anyway, that is all the time I have had to test it so far. Have not run it on track yet.
> 
> Anyone else have theirs, please post more info about it.



Sorry, I must take exception to your comment "Typical Accucraft... " regarding instructions. You will find instructions included with our locos. They are also posted to our website: look under the "Support " tab found along the upper menu navigation bar. Click on that and search by scale for the one(s) you want. 

http://www.accucraft.com/

Unfortunately manuals for the live steam Heisler were not yet complete when the first locos began shipping. In fact, our webmaster uploaded the file just yesterday. You'll find the Heisler manual posted here 

http://www.accucraft.com/manuals/AT 20p3 Heisler LS Manual.pdf

The PDF file may be downloaded and printed locally.

All Heislers shipped going forward will include manuals, same as we typically do!

We at Accucraft are proud to contribute in some small way to this very enjoyable hobby.

Regards,

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains
33268 Central Ave.
Union City, CA 94587
(510) 324-3399
[email protected]


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Robert for the reply. I apologize for the comment concerning instructions. I have saved the manual to my computer. My locomotive came with the gas jet completely blocked. I have since cleaned it out and run a #80 drill through it. What size should the hole be? This engine has trouble keeping steam pressure up unless the gas is turned up high and then it sounds like a jet plane trying to take off. Do I need a replacement gas jet? Or is there some other problem? It's a beautiful engine. I just would like it to run right. Warranty card to follow when I get time. We are in the middle of an epic flood right now and it's raining again as I post this.

John Frank


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I would think a quarter turn is maxed out. It does make a lot of noise.


John,
Given that your jet was totally blocked when the loco arrived, there is a good possibility there is junk in the tank and feed pipe. Maybe you can take out the gas filler valve and blow towards jet holder - maybe with a car tire inflator to get something of a blast? Take the delivery pipe off the gas valve and blow into the tank with the valve open, then blow through the pipe without the jet in place.

The other thing that affects noise is the collar around the flue/jet holder that regulates the air mix in the burner flue. My Dora is very susceptible to sounding like a jet engine, and requires careful positioning of the collar to provide enough air but not sound too loud.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft said:


> Sorry, I must take exception to your comment "Typical Accucraft... " regarding instructions. You will find instructions included with our locos.


Robert,
Maybe next time, when you ship without the instructions because they aren't ready, you might include in the box a page informing the new owner that the instructions are coming and will be on the website soon ?


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, I totally agree with everything you said. Tthe air adjustment, a lot is dependent on the brand and mixture of the gas you use. A small adjustment can make a big difference in not only sound but heat produced which = pressure. Junk in the tank. I had that problem with my 28T 3 cylinder Shay. Removed the tank, no easy task. I have a high pressure compressor and blew air in every direction possible, still the problem reared it's ugly head after a couple of runs. I also flushed it with Acetone and made sure it was dry before filling it again. After a few runs it started to act up again. In desperation, and I don't recommend this, I filled the tank with Iso Butane, let it settle over night upside down so the particulate would settle to the bottom. I then opened the valve fully as quick as possible so the butane was flowing out as a liquid. It sputtered telling me there were solids coming out. After the gas evaporated, aimed at a sheet of stainless steel, tiny flakes of I don't know what were left, I assume solder flux of some kind but don't know for sure. What I do know is I haven't had any problems or clogged jets with at loco since, it is a fine runner. I DON'T RECOMMEND THAT TO ANYONE, I'm sure Accucraft or others with more experience than I will advise a much safer method.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick and Pete. Thanks for the suggestions. I usually blow out the tank on a new engine since I have had clogged jets before. But never delivered that way from the factory. I have tried different settings for the air ring and picked the one that lets the fire pop back and burn correctly. That setting is close to max. It is still very loud. Waiting for Robert or Cliff to respond. In addition to a note about the pending delivery of the manual, they might have put some indication on the shipping box as how to get into it.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley, so how did your run go yesterday??? thank you


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick and Pete,
The run at Winn's went really well. I tested starting with less water and was able to get 50-60psi. I made several laps around Winn's track and was always able to keep the pressure up again at 1/4 turn of the fuel valve. I did have to use the water pump a lot but mostly due to the length of the loop. 

Engine still runs loud but I am going to fire again soon and do some adjustments to the air collar, would be nice if it turned down the burner noise. 
Here is a drive by video the train is about 5' away if that give you any indication of the sound. If nothing else I think it is a cool picture.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/l1yun7pxfeip2h8/AACUkv4H6eSB91EiqFPovzBxa

Wesley


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley, once you're happy that there is nothing wrong with the engine, you may want to install a NiCr screen over the poker burner. I've done that to several of my locos with great success. If the Heisler is like my 28T Shay, no easy task getting to it, but certainly do-able. It will also give you a bit more heat than just the poker. LG


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Gentlemen;

About 30 years ago I had a cab ride in a three foot gauge Crown Metal Products 4-4-0 that was propane fired. This was at our local Lakeside Amusement Park before its demise. The burner jet was positioned about three inches from a five inch diameter hole cut into the fire door. Before opening the throttle, the engineer would turn the propane valve to full open. This produced a roar like a fighter jet taking off.

So if all else fails, I suppose that you can still claim that it is prototypical. The Crown locomotive weighed in at 20 tons in working order. That is about the same as the Eureka. 

Best of luck,
David Meashey


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> let it settle over night upside down so the particulate would settle to the bottom.


While I understand your lack-of-a-recommendation, the idea has merit. Remove the gas filler valve, fill the tank with something cleansing (alcohol?) and put the gas valve back in. Shake hard and leave it overnight upside down. Then remove the filler valve again and shake out whatever you can ?


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, I did try flushing with Acetone, removed the Ronson valve and did shake hard but didn't let it sit upside down over night. I also dried it with high pressure air to dry the Acetone as I didn't know what the reaction would be if i added Iso Butane to a possible drop of Acetone left in the tank. Some flakes came out and I was sure that would be the end of it. Only after it AGAIN reared it's ugly head, and out of total desperation did I do the GAS thing. Next time it happens, hopefully never, I will do what you suggested with liquid, then add just air pressure on top of that and let it settle upside down over night. I did like the fact that it was propelled out of the tank rather than just drip.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley, sorry didn't mean to drift off point. Any update on the Heisler??? Thank You


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all and Nick, I have been working on the Heisler till yesterday. Your and Pete’s fuel conversation was a point well taken. Here are my observations.
*Noise:* Adjusting the burner air ring didn’t affect the noise volume of the jet burning. Factory setting was pretty good. Remember I was able to get the boiler up to heat by not filling it so full of water, I use the top of the sight glass as a fill line. Accucraft’s use of the wire inside the sight glass makes it much more reliable. 
*Radiant Heater:* I took your recommendation and decided to wrap the burner with 20x20 NiCr screen mess. I’m glad that I was able to find my stash of wire and mesh after 10 years, the price now would be a major decision point today. After studying the oil bunker I figured out that it is very easy to remove. You don’t even have to flip the loco over. (Why can’t I type that without thinking of John Lennon’s wife, YoKo Ono)? 
Basically you remove 8 bolts from the rear brake bar and sander down tubes, 4 screws inside bottom of the bunker, water pump feed tube from the back of the boiler, and free the gas/jet tube from the boiler. The bunker the can be jiggled back and up from the frame taking the still attached pump and gas tank with it. After installing the screen wrapped burner the hardest part of reinstalling were the 4 bolt on the floor of the water tank, I was able to do it and still keep the tank water proof.
Accucraft should be commended for thinking this out and building so easy to access. This is great for the burner removal and anyone wanting to install RC. 
*Results:* I ran the loco with the burner mod and am very pleased with the results. Firing time is about the same (no stop watch test) and fuel feed is still ¼ turn. But the major difference is the sound. Where before the loco sounded like a _"stuck pig trying to whistle"_ it now has a nice baritone voice and the sound level went from 65 dB to 55dB (Busy Traffic to Quiet Office). I’m very happy with this (your recommendation) and would call it a success.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wesley, I glad to hear you are now happier with the Heisler. Keep runnin' trains and if there are any more modifications you make please keep us informed. What I think you have accomplished is to break the flame down to smaller points which will ultimately produce more heat with a bit less gas and less noise. If there is room in the flue, a 'tent' over that one will make a true radiant burner. I haven't had much success with the later Accucraft flue's as they seem less in diameter than the required dimension for a proper tent. I still build mine using the formula published in StIG, Issue No. 63 Pg 17. Although, I must admit I have had occasional success by putting a SS screen inside the poker and a NiCr outside with a little distance between it and the poker, but that is more LUCK than anything else as there still isn't room enough for a proper TENT. I do keep trying. If someone has another solution PLEASE share it. LG


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for all the info, particularly on how to remove the tank. I am going to try the screen fix also. One more little problem that has surfaced. The front axle gear is lose and need to be tightened. How do you get to it. There is a cover over it. I think I tried to loosen the two screws that are visible and it didn't come off. What do I need to do. I have been busy trying to get my yard back into shape after the epic floods. But just when I think I'm done it rains again. lol.


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

John, the front truck will need to be removed to access the gear fixing screw , there are 2 retainer screws[allen key] which hold the truck on the pivot.
drop off the sliding joint , turn the truck sideways ,looking between the top truck plate and the frame and you will see the 2 screws , loosen about 3 turns [they can stay in the collar] and the truck comes off, the top of the gear box is open and the fixing screw is accessible.
The other suggestion of screening the burner, can I suggest and alternative, roll up a single layer of your mesh ,long enough to cover the burner slots and insert it into the burner, [may help to tie it with cotton to help with sliding it in] same result of lot less noise and will never burn out. the cotton burns away on first lighting.

My thanks to your self and Wesley for these reports on the Heisler model.


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Just as Taperpin said there is a second way to screen the burner, I used a different way to work off the covered gear box. When upside down remove the side rods nuts from the front wheels on the truck (4mm nut driver), leave them attached and hanging from the rear wheels. 
Remove the 2 bolts connecting the cover to the bolster. (3mm driver for all the rest of the work)
Remove the 4 bolts from the 2 axle saddles.
You can now slide the whole assembly forward and the drive shaft slip joint will come apart. 
Now that the axle and gear box is free you can turn it over and will see a set screw in the small gear holding it to the drive shaft. Loosen it and slide it forward or back to adjust the lash how you want it. 
Reverse the process to reassemble.
*IMPORTANT NOTES: 1.* While you have it upside down tighten all the bolts you can find. I am already missing 1 and had to tighten everyone that I could get to by ¼, ½ turn. (3mm nut driver fits most.) 
*2. CAUTION:* The brake rods holding the brake shoes are very weak. My first run a small twig popped up displacing the shoes out board and the side rods caught and mangled the rods. I fixed it and blamed the twig. Not so easy there Hoss, it happened again on a front brake set and all I had done was lay it on its side to service. 
*HAVE FUN WITH YOUR HEISLER*


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

If I may add about the burner: no matter how you install the screen either into or over the poker burner, you will know you got it right when you see a ring of definite blue points around the poker, not just a blur of a blue ring. I did try to post pics but my new Apple Up Grade seems to have a few changes I have not over come yet, sorry. Easy, remember chemistry class, (thank you Bob Worthing) the bunsen burner had one blue tip of the flame that was the hottest part, and the meeker burner which had a screen over the top had many?? those are the little blue tips you are looking for, unmistakeable once you have them. And once you do, the fuel valve produces the same amount of heat a much less opening, which of course brings the noise level way down. thank you.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. Perhaps I will have time this weekend to do some of the work as they are predicting rain all weekend, like we needed more. lol


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

John, please keep us posted on your progress, thank you.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I have had much experience with poker burner since I got into live steam and here is what I found.

A larger jet usually produces less heat as the velocity of the gas flow is slowed down

.2 mm or 8 thousands is the most workable size. We make our own jets and 8 - 10 thousands seem to be the only ones that work. I have tried # 80 which is 13.5 thousands and it is way too big.

There was an article in Garden Railroads a few years back about putting a filter in the jet holder. Since then, i have done this on every build and have never had a plugged jet yet. I simply cut about 1/2 of the end of a Q-tip off and pack it loosely in the jet holder (not the jet)

Making a radiant tent will quiet the poker down and it will use less gas but it won't burn any hotter and sometimes not as hot.

Wrapping a screen tightly around the poker will not normally convert it to radiant but will usually quiet it down

Kevin O'Conner has great articles on this on the Southern Steam Trains site. Here is a link to one of them
http://southernsteamtrains.com/notes/radiantpokerburners.htm


This really is a black art. 

Good luck


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks again. I called Cliff today and they are sending me a new jet. I fixed the front truck using the suggestions from Wesley. I am going with the suggestion from Tapermin and put the screen inside the burner. I tried outside and it is just too bulky to fit into the hole. When I get the new jet I will let you know how it works.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

John, sorry this suggestion comes a little late. I usually take a dremel and grind a ring around the two places where the holding wire will go around the poker. and just a little wider where the twist will be. then you only have to contend with the screen thickness. I've had luck with screens inside, usually with 20 mesh. Keep us posted. LG


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Just rec'd word that more Heisler's were delivered today, if anyone is still wanting one, we have them
ready to ship.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Just to retrace some old ground from long long ago. Lose of boiler pressure can often be symptom of a cold gas tank and lose of gas pressure causing the fire to drop and boiler pressure. As the butane is boiled off the gas tank gets cold. The Heisler gas tank is big in a small space, the warm water will get cold fast. Looks like a water warming by various means is required. Accucraft probably included a spare boiler bushing for just such a purpose.

Mixed propane/butane is a partial solution but the propane boils off first and rapidly leaving only butane. It's a technical point that often debated whether it matters, nevertheless it still how it works. The absolute cure is a liquid feed gas tank, but that's a whole different kettle of fish which those that remember would hope I avoid getting into. 

The advise to avoid using anything like a drill or wire to open up a gas jet used to be that it would score the walls of the orifice and distort the free gas flow. That's usually open for debate. That said, Accucraft used to, may still does, includes a short length of very fine wire for the purpose of opening a clogged gas jet.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I posted this under a different title, but may apply to the Accucraft Heisler as well. A simple tank warmer to keep the fuel warm may be helpful as Chris explained about the cooling of the fuel in the previous post: 
"This is nothing more than a piece of aluminum bar stock, cut to fight tightly between the burner and the bunker". Transfers just enough heat that my Catatonk Heisler has gotten longer runs with the same amount of fuel. LG


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Well the jet arrived today. And good ole Accucraft actually sent me two, so I have a spare. I immediately put it in and lit the thing up. It now generates more steam than I know what to do with. I actually had to turn down the fire. As noted above I had also inserted the SS screen inside the burner. First time I have tried putting it inside. Thanks to all the info above I have tightened all the screws, etc. Next step is to try it on the track. I had actually already lost one of the screws holding the axle saddles but I had a spare. The only issue left is now the tank leaks, lol, but who cares. I can fix that eventually. It's probably authentic anyway. Also appreciate the info on modifying the box to use as a carrier. I just use mine as it came. I lower the engine into the box and secure it with foam. I still have the eight screws that hold the couple lift bar to put back. Oh, and it's a lot quieter.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

John, glad you git that loco doing what you want and are happy with it. Do you remember the mesh of the screen you used?? Thank You


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes Nick. It's the smallest screen mesh of the two that the article said to use to make the 'tent'. I don't have the exact dimensions handy but I got it from McMaster-Carr.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

John, have the same screens from the same supplier, and glad it worked for you, I've never had good results using the finer mesh alone inside the poker burner, accept when using it as a modified radiant burner with the NiCr tent outside. When using a screen alone I found the larger mesh worked best for me outside of the burner. I am not disputing your results, just trying to understand what I have been doing wrong. I have so much more of the finer mesh and if I don't have to buy more of anything I'm happy. I believe you used the one on the top and right??? thank you.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is the link to a forum thread a while back that I started outlining how I added a double layer Inconel "tent" for radient operation....in this case repairing an old Mike Chaney Climax, but the photos and conversation would be just as relevant to this discussion I think:
http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/24403-how-repair-radiant-gas-poker-burners-plus-improving-your-burner-installing-radiant-tent.html


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes Nick, I used the finer mesh. I have no idea why it worked or why it didn't work for you. All I can say is I put the mesh in with some long nosed needle pliers and made sure it covered all the holes and it was spread out inside evenly. When I put then new jet in and lit the fire it popped back immediately, no problem. I have the air holes at 100% with the adjustment ring at the completely open setting. As Bill Allen stated, it truly is a 'black art' thingy.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

John, thank you for your reply, I will try again. LG


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, before the Heisler, I had always just wrapped the burner with the fine mesh. The goal was to quite it down and solve the whistling problem some engines had. On my K27 I think I had to remove the mesh. One of the burners would not stay lit. I am not an expert by any means. I just keep trying stuff until it works. Now I know that the mesh inside a burner will work also. Thanks again to all the posted on here.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I ran the Heisler yesterday, Saturday, at the Zube Park track and it ran well pulling a three car train. Unfortunately I did not have time to take any pics of it. But I will be running it during the Memorial Day steamup at Zube starting Thursday and through Saturday, so I should be able to get some pics and movies. It steamed well and is much quieter with the SS mesh installed. I still have to fix the water tank leaks.


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

John
Glad you got it running again and are satisfied with the Heisler.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

You can see it run here at the approx. 7-8 minute range. Water is now running two feet high under the tracks here. It still has trouble generating enough steam. I want to try some warm water around the tank and see if that helps, but it rained all day today.

http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/67026-memorial-weekend-steamup-zube-houston.html


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

You Texans are sure getting pounded with the rain, been watching on the weather channel. I am most sorry to hear you are still having trouble with the loco. One pic show you sure have enough pressure built up at that time. So I guess you are using a lot of steam when it is running, timing? leaky valve? Is Dave Hopman (spelled wrong) any where near you? I believe he is one of the Accucraft GO-TO guys, with their authorization of course. Thank You


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

John, have you made any progress with the Heisler?? Wishing you well.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Nick, thanks for asking. But no, I have just been trying to stay dry lately.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry, I had hoped things in Texas would have gotten better. please keep us posted.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

For video of it running go to the link below, or just look for Steaming at Steve's. Ran great. Apparently it likes hot weather. Plus I added some warm water to the tank.

jf


http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/68178-steamin-steve-s-after-18-months.html


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

John, very happy to hear the Heisler is now running as expected, keep steaming, LG


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