# Anyone with a LGB Mikado forsale?



## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm looking for a LGB mikado and wondering if anyone on the forum has one for sale or knows of one. Condition does not matter. One with a lot of wear ,or with a broken drive, as they are sometimes known for would be better in fact. I like a challenge and after reading a lot on them, i would like to rework the drive to see what can be done to make them stronger and more reliable. The road name is not too important to me. Though i am partial to the pennsylvania version, but really does not matter. Couple of fellow g scalers have them and would like them to be the strong puller they are known for(meaning the real mikado's that ran the rails). After studying the pictures of the drive mech. and much reading, i am confident this can be made to be a more solid drive, with minor modifications. I would be happy to make a post on the end product for others to see the mods, after hours of testing and heavy loads of coarse. Thanks for looking. The Roundhouse R n R


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Last time I looked Ebay had 3 on sale a UP, Pensy, and a Sante Fe.
Cheap ones are almost none exist...people like me buy them up when they show up on the bay..unless someone beats me.
Bubba


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Theres actually a pennsy for sale now on ebay. Its actually in driving distance from me. The problem is i never really find them with alot of miles on them or broken. Kind of funny due to the fact of all the stories you hear about them. Maybe thats because people baby them knowing what could happen. I didnt say cheap , i kinda of figured that was out of the question but i am not going to pay 1,000+ for a worn out engine either. I want one with alot of wear and or broke so i can see the wear first hand. I heard of them going out of quarter ,also lots of problems with its drive shaft issues. Even stripping gears? A new drive shaft with brass universal joints sounds like the ticket. I know i read of Jerry talking about a friend that had left his outside and had alot of miles on its. Thats somthing i am looking for. I know theres got to be one out there. Thanks The Roundhouse R n R


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

Curious as I read this. Why do you want one that is broke down or worn out, are you planning to build something else out of it ??? 
With LGB out of business and Marklin taking over. I can only assume that getting replacement parts would be a challange if not close to impossible. You may end up with a broken loco without the ability of finding parts. If your kitbashing, there is always the Aristo mikado. Everyone it seems out there thinks if a loco says LGB on it, it's worth gold. Some folks think Aristo is not worth the time, but I built a 4-8-2 out of 2 Pacifics and am building a 2-10-2 out of a couple mikados. The new Aristo modular drive train is nice to work with. This is if you are building something else. If you want LGB, your going to end up paying high dollar for it no matter the condition. I'm sure some folks are buying them just for parts to have on hand in case their loco breaks down. This is something to think about in your quest for a mikado.

Rocky


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Rocky. I have right now a LGB Mike tore down, now with motor coupling problems. This is the third time with it. Now rebuilding a difference coupling.
Ya.. they can pull pretty good until you put about 30 cars behind it going up our healix, and after a few times the coupling spinds on the motor shaft even after it was nariled and locktight.









Course the Aristo's has there problems to. I have rebuilt a Pacific a few times to with difference dr. sys. Now I have one that will pull a house if it had more traction, but little high geared for me. So going to gear it down some later on.. 
Like most... Why spend a lot of money for a name?


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I like this Graupner u-joint. I've had one in my Pioneer Zephyer for years and it works great. They make several styles, some long, with more joints. Hobby Lobby used to have them, but no longer listed, found them here:
U Joint


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Just Curious ? If you read the full thread you would understand my goals. Im not trying to be rude , but i will try to make it more clearer if i am being confusing. 
Goals: 
1: redesign or retrofit original drive( wether spare parts are availible is irrelevant) 
2: I have been doing train repairs for years, mainly LGB and have customers wanting to have there mikados "beefed up" . I want a unit to experiment with before tearing into theirs. There for an aristo mikado will not work. I do not want to put an aristo drive in an lgb either. I am an avid LGB collector. I do not think they are gold, but with the exception of the mikado and the possible 2-10-2, LGB has not been through 3 or 4 different gear boxes to finally get it right . There just a proven quality constuction. I dont want this to turn into my train is better than yours please. Just my opinion. I do own aristocraft also. 
3: The reason for wanting a worn or a failed gearbox is to pinpoint the problems. Others may have an idea. I just want to know first hand. As i stated jerry had a friend that had one he left outside under a roof structure im asuming.It also had lots of miles on it and he sold it. So i was hoping i could stumble upon the same thing. Figured this would be a good place to ask. 
4: I want a reasonable price. Reasonable does not mean cheap. Im sorry im not going to pay the same price for a worn out engine, that a new one is going for. Thats just foolish. I would like to find one priced for what its worth. Meaning if its a dead horse, i dont want to pay new condition price. Alot of my LGB locos came from the grave and i did not pay a retail price for them. If the engines in good condition with moderate wear. Sure i am willing to pay a good price. 
So i hope this clears things up. Again i dont want to be rude. But i have stated all these points in previous post. Thanks for everyones imput


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Noelw , if your ready to through in the towel with your mike and are willing to through a number at me. I would be more than happy to entertain your offer. Thanks again for everyones comments. Im new to the forum and the internet side of trains. So far i like this site and for the most part people are very welcoming and have lots to offer. Roundhouse RnR


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TheRoundHouseRnR on 27 Jul 2012 10:54 AM 
Noelw , if your ready to through in the towel with your mike and are willing to through a number at me. I would be more than happy to entertain your offer. Thanks again for everyones comments. Im new to the forum and the internet side of trains. So far i like this site and for the most part people are very welcoming and have lots to offer. Roundhouse RnR Sorry .. Didn't read all of the post you did. 
We are rebuilding this for a buddy and i wouldn't pay the price he paid for it. It was used in the first place and one of the older models. Tks to Jerry B. and looking in to it. It just had a poor Coupling problem and our group that run here sometime like to see just how many cars they can climb our helix grade that is over 2 percent. It a nice looking Mike but it did have a lot of problems other than the coupling concern.
By the way ..glad you came here and.Ya.... this is the place to get any kind of opinions. Even for this old guy ..me


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I have used the Graupner universal joints for many years, predominantly with boats, Graupner makes good stuff IMO. That said there is little to no room to utilize the aforementioned type u-joint. The clearance between the motor output shaft and carden shaft is maybe 1/8” of the LGB Mikado drive.

In the attached pictures, there is a shot of the original LGB motor to carden shaft coupling offering which is known to fail. A second picture shows the updated coupling and a third picture of the entire drive.

If you’ll note the NEW primary coupling design at the motor is designed to allow greater mismatch in concentricity between the carden shaft and motor. I suppose this eliminates heat soak realized of the original design which maybe what causes the splined carden shaft and engineer’s plastic to fail…

I’d be interested if anyone has experience with the second and third coupling failing?

FWIW: Never use any type of Loctite or thread lock product on plastic, Nylon, Teflon, Derlin or what have you the chemical matrix of thread lockers damages the composite matrix of the component eventually resulting in failure. 

Michael


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By GN_Rocky on 27 Jul 2012 09:50 AM 
Curious as I read this. Why do you want one that is broke down or worn out, are you planning to build something else out of it ??? 
With LGB out of business and Marklin taking over. I can only assume that getting replacement parts would be a challange if not close to impossible. You may end up with a broken loco without the ability of finding parts. If your kitbashing, there is always the Aristo mikado. Everyone it seems out there thinks if a loco says LGB on it, it's worth gold. Some folks think Aristo is not worth the time, but I built a 4-8-2 out of 2 Pacifics and am building a 2-10-2 out of a couple mikados. The new Aristo modular drive train is nice to work with. This is if you are building something else. If you want LGB, your going to end up paying high dollar for it no matter the condition. I'm sure some folks are buying them just for parts to have on hand in case their loco breaks down. This is something to think about in your quest for a mikado.

Rocky

I do when I find them, and just for parts but they are few and far between on the bay in fixer upper condition....I have a couple for parts and a Uintah also...no not for sale...rat holled for a later day.

Bubba


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Michael, Loctite on plastics is definitely a recipe for failure. Very valid point. Im not big on chemical bonds unless we are talking aesthetics. As far as knurling the ends of the shafts, well thats a step in the right direction but i want to go stronger then a friction joint. When ever im working on a load bearing piece, whatever it may be. I try to shoot for a mechanical bond when possible. You can even have a mechanical/ chemical bond .... for instants if you drill holes in the two pieces your are glueing. Now the glue has something to grab on to and therefore does not have to rely on just surface to surface contact. 
Now remember i dont have a unit sitting in front of me, which is the goal. So bare with me on my ignorance, as im shooting from the hip so to speak. Im thinking of ditching all the shafts , worthless star couplings and just keep the worms and and bearings and starting over. Exstend the small shafts with two new shafts, to meet in the middle where the pivot joint is. There is where i would look to use a universal joint with flats milled on the ends of the shafts for use of a set screw. As far as the motor end of the shaft ,i assume that said shaft has no pivoting or up and down movement in relation to the motor. So im thinking of a more solid joint, Either a brass sleeve with set screws. Or a brass sleeve with split pins for a more forgiving joint. Would involve holes to be drilled in the shafts(including motor end). I know this material is hard but can be done. Then the sleeve coulds be a few thousands bigger than shafts allowing for reduced vibrations and a little give between the joints. Now we have all mechanical joints and a more solid drive. 
As far as bubba, if i cant find a mike here maybe we will be in a bidding war soon lol.... The Roundhouse RnR


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Thinking about this more. Im not sure how much pivot there is when the mikado makes a sharp turn? With going with two shaft with one universal, i might run into the problem with to much pitch on the universal joint. Which may lead to surging at slower speeds. Also, lots of pressure pulling on the bearings since they are mounted so far away from the point of pivot. So in reference to the previous design. I might stick with three shafts and just replace the star drives with two universals. I still would have to turn new shafts most likely because of the little amount of room after the bearings. Any thoughts ? The Roundhouse R n R


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I have pictures of LGB's pivoting Mikado drive that was modified to eliminate the pivot, essentially they just fused the fore and aft section together. I have other pictures where the driver diameter was increased requiring axle spacing and drive shaft lengthening modifications. The drive was spliced into sections and fused together with new styrene motor block-sides. You can do a lot with these drives IMO… 

There is not enough room to use a traditional universal joint IMO, not sure how fabricating new shafts would help, the bearing is simply too close to the motor. Relocating the motor by pushing it back toward the rear of the engine is doable! 
Shortening the motor shaft and carden shaft might be doable with the right universal. Personally I’d rather not hard couple the drive and motor with a universal. Something that allows for a mismatch in concentricity would be more desirable IMO with this drive.
I think a good fix would be to machine a brass/steel collar that would surround the outside diameter of the cup complete with threads for a grub screw that would interfere with a fresh flat milled on the shaft. One could also do the inverse and bore the inside diameter of the cup, machine an insert with grub screw and flat on shaft as described above. Weak point might be the thickness or surface area available to lock the cup to the grub screw. That said perhaps a splined shaft/cup in good condition together with the grub screw acting as pin in shear might hold up pretty good under the demanding loads of a big freight drag……
Or maybe machine a couple of brass/metal cups with some sort of rubber/phenolic/derlin insert (something similar to a Lovejoy jaw coupling).
Michael[/i]


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Im sorry , if it came across that way but i meant to put univerals where the star cups are in between the front and rear driver. Never wanted to put a universal at the motor end. I know this is not the normal place for failure but i want to eliminate them completely. As far as the brass/ steal collar idea , thats what i meant by a sleeve in my prior post. So it sounds like im on the right track , no pun intended. You got to remember im working from pictures so its a little hard to get the full picture as of right now. As far as new shafts. I guess the idea is to give me a little more freedom in eliminating the center star couplings. 
I want to get rid of the couplinps all together, so although a good idea with using the collar over the coupling. I will have to figure out a different way or go with the way i mentioned above. Thanks for the insight. 
Is there i a way i could these the pictures of the modified drives. Thanks The Roundhouse RnR


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Roundhouse,
As far as I know the failure mode is at the first coupling at the motor and first shaft. The pictures I provided above shows the damaged first cup and LGB’s answer to the problem with a different type of brass male adapter on the motor shaft and a matching female piece for the shaft.
PM with an email address and I’ll send you the pictures of the modified drives.
Michael


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## gtrainman (Jan 5, 2008)

This is what the upgraded coupling looks like. 
See the pic on this Ebay ad. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LGB-MIKADO-...934559?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item27c9a7b01f


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Been doing some more research. Some people mention the cups spin on the shaft, others say the star shaped brass pieces wears out the teeth in the cups and Dan from train-li talks about wheels going out of quarter. There seems to be a lack of knowledge as to what exactly is the week link of the system or if its a combo of all three. I found some pictures in an earlier post. It shows the shafts ends being square and not round. I would hope the knew drive with the ends of the shaft being square takes care of the problem of cups spinning on the shaft. Now this leaves the other two problems as potential week points. 

What was the thought behind redesigning the cup on the engine side? Was it the hope that removing the star shaped cup and replacing it with the new design on the motor side alone would beef up the rear axial in hopes that would take majority of the load of the train and the other two star shaped cups would have less to cope with. Although ,i doubt that is possible. Both front and back axial should see the same amount of load in relation to what the train is pulling. And why the motor end? There is no pivoting happening at that end. So i would think the star shaped drive would be more of an issue on the center two where pivoting would cause excesive wear. 

Was it because the motor shaft would heat up under load and cause the brass star to heat up and melt down the fragile teeth inside the cup? That would make a little more sence but still leaves me puzzled why lgb didnt change the other two in the center. A universal could have worked there or im thinking of the old HO dog bone universal joint. 

I only hear of the wheels going out of quarter when Dan brings it up. Not saying i dont beleive dan , as he knows alot about LGB but anyone else run into this problem? 

I got a pm from one member with a possibilty of having a used mikado forsale thats got one foot in the grave but im still looking till he knows for sure. Any thoughts? The Roundhouse RnR


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I’d suggest that the cups suspended between the two supported shafts are less likely to fail irregardless of the drive pivoting and side loads associated herein. The center shaft with its two cups is supported between two rigid shafts; each shaft is supported with two bearings, the bearing supported shafts run true while the center shaft with cups float so to speak. Rigidly fastened universals cannot adsorb the changes that occur in the length of the center shaft as the drive pivots.

At the motor end the shaft is again fixed or rigid as is the motor. If the motor is not perfectly aligned with the rigid shaft (which is unlikely due to the design, material and heat cycling) stuff occurs. A universal with floating dog bones, the original star cup and or the NEW design coupling is superior to a universal joint IMO in this application. I mentioned concentricity in my previous post I suspect this can be an issue at the motor end, that and things grow with heat and normal operation. 

The simple fact also exists in that the splined interface of the cups at the shafts is likely a weak point with regard to the materials and design in play.

Consider the case of a real world two piece drive shaft; there is typically a splined shaft and female splined coupling or yoke with a universal generally supported with a carrier bearing floating in a rubber doughnut rigidly fastened to a cross-member or frame component, the splined shaft floats end to end of the spline at the yoke absorbing the results of heat cycling and such together with the carrier bearing/rubber doughnut working in harmony to adsorb alignment miss-matches as they occur.

The quartering issue is at least two fold; the drivers can slip at their respective axle/driver spline interface and become out of quarter. If one or both of the couplings fails of the center shaft either pair of drivers (front or rear) will no longer be in quarter with the latter. In either case the side rods will be damaged me thinks.

Michael


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## Stefan (Dec 20, 2008)

Hi,

this is a picture of the latest version of replacement parts. Prevents the plastic parts from spinning
on the shaft. 










Be careful, when you change the motor to the new version. These parts do not fit into the first gearbox version because of the second ball bearing on the right shaft (in the background).

Bye
Stefan


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Michael in refering to ths comment , are you talking about the teeth/ splines inside the cups ? Or did you mean the splines on the shaft? Which in the new design ,the shaft are square which should cause no problem? 

"The simple fact also exists in that the splined interface of the cups at the shafts is likely a weak point with regard to the materials and design in play." 

Its seems that the major part of the "fix" Lgb did was add bearings to the to short shafts in the center to make them more rigid and make the ends of the shafts square to except the square in the cups for a no slip joint.. Im still lost as to why they changed the motor end of the shaft, specially in reference to this comment you made.- 
"A universal with floating dog bones, the original star cup and or the NEW design coupling is superior to a universal joint IMO in this application." So why even changed the motor end from the star shaped drive to the "new" lug type. 

I believe a dog bone type drive would be a little less prone to failure in reference to the center shaft. Also universals is not out of the question as long as the center shaft could "telescope inward and outward a little to cope with the difference in lengths when pivoting. 

I see what your saying about how the drive goes out of quarter is really two issuses , but the second issue you mentioned is more of a RESULT of the shaft failing not so much quartering between left and right wheel on any given axel. I beleive Dan refers to the wheels splipping on the knurling of the axels. Causing the left wheel to go out of quarter from the right wheel in any of the wheelsets. This comes as a shock to me because LGB never had this issue before. 


SO my questions i guess are why the change on the motor end alone, as far as the new cup design and did anyone with there mikado have the issue of individual wheels sets going out of quarter? 
Also , has anyone had the splines in the cup get torn up from the brass star shaped drive? 

As far as mods to make them better , its really going to matter on what generation Mikado i end up with. Wether it be the new drive or the old drive. I feel both can be made a lot more sturdy. 
Thanks The Roundhouse RnR


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes, Dave Goodson has one for sale, check the link below for information. 

http://cordlessrenovations.com/?page_id=6608 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations, LLC 
RCS America


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Im sorry all im seeing is an aristo mikado. Not what im looking for. Am i clicking on the wrong link?


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By izzy0855 on 31 Jul 2012 01:38 PM 
Yes, Dave Goodson has one for sale, check the link below for information. 

http://cordlessrenovations.com/?page_id=6608 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations, LLC 
RCS America Rick,

I think Roundhouse is looking for an LGB Mike, not an Aristo.


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## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

No, that's my fault...Dave's is an Aristo. 

Sorry about that! 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations, LLC 
RCS America


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

No worries.


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

I have the Union Pacific version that is like new in the box, sound and everything. If I can talk Noah into selling it, I would take $1200. Let me know if ANY of you guys are interested....


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

The problem with the LGB Mikado is they built and designed it to go thru those tiny 4 or 5 ft Dia curves, thus all the strange gearing, trans axle and a split drive. They could have done a better job OR they could have designed it with a straight non split pivoting drive. This would have cut out most of the gear wear problems. I'll never understand why the manufacturers have built locos with split drives in order to navigate sharp unrealistic curves. USA Trains did this with their SD-40-2 that had the pivoting trucks and I had loads of problems with their trucks derailing on switches. I sold all but one unit and converted it's trucks over to Aristo powered trucks as well as convert the loco over to an SDP-40 to fit my time era. I think there were a few other locos with the split drives too, but seriously, running a large loco around a sharp turn looks crappy and soooo un-realistic







This doesn't solve your problem I know, but this is the reason why LGB has had problems with that loco and the reason why the drive is sooo screwed up. I always wanted to get one and convert it over to a GN O-1 class, but the price kept it out of my reach for a long time. Now that I could afforded such a loco I see the problems it has and the split drive is a real turn off for me. Years ago I too was stuck in the 4 ft curve world for a while and packed up all my good stuff and ran little dinky locos only. Why, because larger locos SHOULD NOT run on sharp curves. Your only asking for problems when you do so AND I'm speaking from experiance. IF I ever get a LGB Mikado, the first thing I will do is FIX the drive by making it a straight non moveable one piece drive frame and remove the pivoting capacity. That will cut down on any gearing issues and limit the loco to a more realistic curve taking capacity. Thus it becomes a better runner.

It's so nice now that with my own house I now have 12.5 ft and 14 ft Minimum diameter curves on my mainlines. So now I can run just about anything









Just my 2 cents on the CAUSE of this problem.

Rocky


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

I'm not sure why building a loco to go through 4 ft diameter curves is a problem. It could cause more wear on things such as axle journals, wheel plating, and maybe gear wear if pulling heavy loads. But if pulling moderate loads and the loco isn't over weight and built correctly , there should be no problems. Many people that own the lgb mikado can attest for that. One could run into the same wear if over weighting and pulling way more then the loco should. My plan is to make it handle a little more torch er for lack of a better word. 
I'm not sure what you mean by strange gearing and gear wear problems? Just about all large scare engines have a worm and worm gear. I have yet to read of someone having an issue with gear failure. 

You don't have to think to hard to figure out why g scale manufactures build locos to negotiate sharper curves. It opens there products up to a larger mass of people. Lets face it , if we don't keep younger generations into this hobby , one wonders where this hobby will end up. Kids and even big kids don't always have the space for large turnouts and curves in there homes or backyards. Lewis polk talks about this in his seminar at the east coast large scale train show. Bravo to these companies making this scale more appealing to those who don't have the space and always dreamed of having the larger steam and diesels. SO as far as I'm concerned, SOME large locos should at least be able to handle sharp curves. NOT all large engines like the big boy and challenger should. The brass engines and live steamers are more of a true model and should stay that way also. As far as our plastic engines , there really no more than over priced toys so whats it hurt. No one says you have to run them on sharp curves. Don't get me wrong , some make nice models also. 

Making comments like, i had to pack up my GOOD STUFF because of being stuck in 4 FT WORLD and running these locos on smaller diameter curves looks so CRAPPY AND UNREALISTIC gets this hobby no where and is very discouraging to those that are not as fortunate as you are. A lot of people happen to like running there little 0-4-0 . 2-6-0 and so on and i bet that's the good stuff to them. My favorite loco out of all my engines is the LGB mogul. No its not even close to the biggest engine of my collection but it doesn't make it not the "good stuff". Its all on YOUR perspective and what YOU enjoy. The goods stuff to me is a simple, good running, reliable engine. 


As far as limiting the loco to run only on wider curves doesn't seem to make sence. Just don't run it on sharper curves , simple as that. I happen to like the fact that LGB designs all there engines to run on sharper curves. I agree with running your engines on larger diameter curves for mainline use to save on wear but it sure is nice that if you have a parking shed or run your trains into your basement you can through a couple of them sharp curves and switches in places where its needed or is more covenant. Your only pulling in and out of these spaces anyway. 
The failure of this design is rushing to get it done and poor quality control and testing. That is the CAUSE of this problem. The updated drive seems to have fixed a lot of the issues but some linger. 

I'm very sorry I've pulled off this subject a little on this last post, as this thread was not meant for bashing the lgb mikado but coming up with ideas to make it better. I'm still looking for ideas ,thoughts and most of all a lgb mikado. I have gotten two offers so far both are still pending. Michael has had some great input and i look forward to hearing more. I will know more once i get a hold of one and will have some ideas for those of you who want to pull more cars or get theirs running again. Thanks The Roundhouse RnR


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## Tori Banks (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi, 

I realize this thread is a few months old but I have a Mikado with this exact problem. It's from the first run, Santa Fe Cab #3110. I glued the shaft with super glue and it held for a long time but it is starting to slip again. If you are still looking for an LGB Mikado to work on, I'd consider selling mine so that I can purchase something else. If you did get one and have found a solution to this issue, I'd be interested in talking to you about getting mine fixed.


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