# Traction Tires - Are they necessary?



## mikegiangrande (Apr 10, 2011)

I've been throwing a few posts out as I have questions, hope you don't get too tired of them.

I have a couple LGB engines (original green Stainz, small circus engine, and a diesel switcher). My others are the HLW Big John, Aristo E-8, and USA Trains SD70 MAC, and I have a Bachmann street car. My LGB engines have traction tires, but my others do not.

Are the traction tires necessary? And why does only LGB use them? If they're not necessary, I probably won't bother replacing them when they wear out again.

Thanks. 
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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, they are not unless you are trying to pull the absolute maximum you can out of a loco. 

USA Trains has used them, but is phasing them out. 

When they wear out, you have a bad contour on the wheel treads. It's never been proven that it causes problems, but looks bad. 

I don't like them, and have swapped them out on all my USAT locos. I would not mess with the LGB unless you can replace the wheels. You might be disappointed with the lowered pulling power. 

Greg


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## mikegiangrande (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks Greg.

I'm not too concerned about pulling power on my LGBs. For the most part, they pull short, light trains.

Right now, I'm watching my LBG switcher pull five box cars around the backyard. That's about the heaviest and longest train I pull with my LGBs. 
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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My advice would be to remove them and see how they pull... you should be able to get replacement non-traction tired wheels from Axel at Train-Li ... 

Regards, Greg


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## Martino2579 (Jun 4, 2008)

I removed the traction tire on my Stainz chassis and it actually seemed to improve things. Electrical pick up was smoother and I noticed no drop in puling power. However the new Jody on the chassis is loaded with weights so that may help too!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

When I built my mallet I had one Stainz motor brick with traction tire (2020) and one without (2017). I really didn't give it much thought. The decision which was to be put where was based on the cylinder configuration - and the traction tire unit ended up as the high pressure (rear) set. 
Well, partially due to the way the chassis was built/weighted, the front brick would slip (spin) badly and then the rear one would stall... not good..... 
Swapping the wheels around on the bricks so that the tire was on the low pressure (front) brick resulted in much more even tractive effort, and increased the total pulling power by about 3 or so cars (My layout is small, and I tend not to overload it in normal use, so it usually only pulls about 6 cars - but can, and has, pulled more than twice that) 

So, anyway, based on my limited experience, the traction tire CAN help a light/slippery loco pull better, or possibly help cause a heavier one to stall (and possibly fry the motor if you aren't paying attention!). This is assuming a properly fitted tire that isn't badly worn or contaminated with lubricants. - 

IMO, the LGB Porter could probably have benefited from having a tire fitted, but the Stainz is heavy enough that it probably doesn't really "need" one most of the time. It will already seriously out pull what a prototypical engine of that size ever could.


It's also been my experience that not all Stainz are created equal. The older ones with the clamshell brick (metal valve gear) seem to be both smoother running and stronger than the later ones- especially those from starter sets. But the really, really old ones (late 1960s- no pickup shoes), were just a little bit weaker and noisier. 



Another consideration. An engine's history (possibly before you) can actually affect it's performance. Was it run hard or for long periods (hours daily for weeks or months - like in a commercial setting)? How about under lubricated? OVER lubricated? Has it been taken apart and put back together with a wheelset one tooth off? Does it have a bit extra runout (wobble) on one or more wheels from being dropped? Has it ever been dead stalled and started to heat the motor windings? Do the back sides of the wheels (or any other electrical contacts) need cleaned? Or any of the brushes replaced? Has it ever derailed, shorted and heated the brush springs? Is there hair or carpet fibers wound around the axles? Etc. Etc. ---- So it may not be 'just' the traction tire that's making the difference between two 'identical' locos...
This might be TMI (too much info) all at once, but I hope it helps.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Because the traction tire fits in a groove, I would never run a 'grooved' wheel on my RR. 

Keep tires on, or change out the wheel for a non-grooved one. 

PS, LGB traction tires seem to last for many years, Aristo tires tend to dry out and fall off, but takes a few years to do this.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I removed the tires from my Aristo RDC-1 last year and had no problems. Electrical contact is a bit better, if anything, and the groove has no effect. I thought for sure the groove would lock onto the rail and chaos would ensure. Nothing like that, at all. 

JackM


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I still have the original traction tires on my LGB purchased 8 years ago. I have a friend that has an LGB 2-4-0 that is missing that tire. It can only handle small consists. He eventually replaced it and it made a difference. Regards, Dennis.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Nope.







Not necessary.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The need for traction tires depends on the engine. An LGB mogul with a tire can hardly pull itself out of a wet paper bag. For some reason it has the least pulling power of any engine that I measured. There are a lot of engines that pull well without the tires. Occasionally I will hear a clicking sound as an engine goes around my track. When I pick up the engine to see what might be wrong, it is almost always a missing tire. the groove that holds the tire rides up and down on the rail which causes a clicking sound.

Here is a table that I started checking the pulling power of some of my locomotives that I use a lot.

pulling power 

Tires probably increase the pulling power, but when you reach that maximum drag, you might do damage to the motor and gears. In order to pull more cars with my LGB moguls I added weight to the engine. After replacing several idler gears in the engines over a period of several years, I took the weights out. No more worn gears and I just run shorter trains. 


When the wheels start to slip you are pulling too many cars. I think that traction tires increase the pulling power, but they also increase the wear and tear on the drive train. 


Chuck


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I run mostly USA GP's the first thing I do is replace the wheel set that have traction tires with ones without.

Don


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I change out the traction tire wheel sets for non-traction tire wheel sets on my USA engines the first time that they split their gear on that wheel set. If the gear splits on the replacement or a non-traction tire wheel set, I fix the gear. I don't have any LGB engines.

I would think that the traction tires contribute to the splitting of the gears that is so common on these engines (something's either got to slip or give).


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 16 Jul 2011 04:56 AM 
I run mostly USA GP's the first thing I do is replace the wheel set that have traction tires with ones without.

Don
While I don't run USA exclusively, Ditto.... to remove all traction tires









When running under battery power, it's best to remove them just in case of any derailments.


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

The question had to do with traction tires on LGB engines and if they were required. You have to go by one's personal experience with various other type of engines. Dennis.


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