# Accucraft C-19 steamer has no grip!



## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

I steamed my C-19 yesterday for the first time.
After a few runs on her own to loosen her up, I coupled on 10 Fn3 cars.
She ran easily for the first couple of circuits, hardly noticing the grades.
One circuit is about 280 feet, 1/3 up at 1.4%, 1/3 down at 1.4%, the remainder level, with 10 foot minimum radius.

Then she slowly lost almost all grip with continuous wheel spin up the grade!

I've checked the track, it is not greasy.
It seems to be the driving wheels themselves have no grip.
I can easily push her along the track with just one finger, with the drivers not turning.

Any thoughts on how I can restore some grip?


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## rodblakeman (Jan 2, 2008)

Westcott, 
You asked this question on another forum and got lots of answers, have you exhausted all the things that were suggested you try ? If the track and wheels are not oily check the the springing to ensure that all the drivers are making firm contact with the rails. Also ensure that the pilot is not lifting the drivers.i


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

On my C19, the middle two drivers are not contacting the track. They are up about two paper sheets worth. Dave Hottman told me that this was a standard design feature so the loco would not derail on the top of a hill. So only four drivers were supposed to touch the track (axles 1 and 4). 

Just some info.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

My C19 runs perfect and pulls great. I would suspect that your problem is your track, not the engine. You don't say if you have aluminum, brass, nickel silver or stainless steel track. Each has different properties and different cohesion. When the track is unused, corroded and gritty it has better traction than after running some trains on it. Accucraft engines use stainless steel tires so I don't see how their cohesion would change materially after running.


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Guys, thanks for all of the suggestions and comments! 

I've checked the pilot, it makes light contact only. 
The track is a mixture of AML brass and Peco aluminium and nickel-silver. 
She slips equally well on all three. 

Has anyone performed a measured drawbar test on a C-19?

As I mentioned in the other forum, my Aristo LS Mikado pulls 22 cars up the same grade, working hard at 40psi without slipping. 
This forum seemed more appropriate for an American steamer.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Water? 
Fuel? 
Fire? 
Steam pressure? 

Takes all four to do the Train Tango. Is it possible you over looked one? We are all fallible now and them.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I've checked the track, it is not greasy. 
It seems to be the driving wheels themselves have no grip. 
I can easily push her along the track with just one finger, with the drivers not turning. 

Sounds like your wheels have picked up a coating of oil/grease. These engines are notorious for blowing gunk out of the stack, and droipping it via the cylinders onto the track and wheels. (Solution is a Chuffer or similar device. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr7vihU5E7Q )


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Greetings.

Now I suspect I know what a "chuffer" is but I am going to ask anyway to make sure, is it a device that goes in the smoke box to make the chuff sound more noticeable? If I am correct where or who would one order one from for a Accucraft American?


Andre


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## HeliconSteamer (Jan 2, 2008)

Westcott, 
I would recommend that you have a look at the #1 axle brake shoes. I recall on the C-16s that these would collect emulsified steam oil that dripped from the bottom of the smokebox and would then deposit this sludge conveniently in front of the drivers. If this is the case, you can simply remove the offending brake shoes and your problem is solved.


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## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

Westcott, 
16 Aug 2010 05:52 AM QuoteReplyAlert 
I steamed my C-19 yesterday for the first time. 
After a few runs on her own to loosen her up, I coupled on 10 Fn3 cars. 
She ran easily for the first couple of circuits, hardly noticing the grades. 
One circuit is about 280 feet, 1/3 up at 1.4%, 1/3 down at 1.4%, the remainder level, with 10 foot minimum radius. 

Then she slowly lost almost all grip with continuous wheel spin up the grade! 

I've checked the track, it is not greasy. 
It seems to be the driving wheels themselves have no grip. 
I can easily push her along the track with just one finger, with the drivers not turning
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You Said "I can easiy push her along the track with one Finger,With the drivers not turning!!!! 
If the drivers are not turning 
#1 Are they getting Steam? 
#2 Is it in Forward? 
#3 is the Steam-Up 40 to 60 psi ? 
#4 Is the Steam ON ? (throttle) 
With the drivers not turning,The Cyl. are not getting Steam!!!!!!!!!!! 
Super heater may be pluged,What steam oil are You using? 

If this won't work there is always Ryan & Charles at Triple "R" Services http://www.realsteamservices.com/
They will be more than happy to help You


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Andre, go to the NGT Models website for a chuffer for your AC 4-4-0. Depending on your engine's stack type, it may require an extention. Check the installation writeups for my method. 

Larry


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## emartin187 (Jan 19, 2008)

Westcott 
I had the same situation on my C-19 but on a 3 % grade. Cliff at Accucraft suggested I use a screwdriver blade to raise the front or rear axle to see if the middle drivers also raised. They did; which meant that the springs on the front and rear axles were too stiff. I removed one of the three springs on each side of the front and rear axles which solved the traction problem. 

Earl 
SA 360 
Home of the Martin Track Sweeper and Martin TrakrTotes


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 16 Aug 2010 09:21 AM 
I've checked the track, it is not greasy. 
It seems to be the driving wheels themselves have no grip. 
I can easily push her along the track with just one finger, with the drivers not turning. 

Sounds like your wheels have picked up a coating of oil/grease. These engines are notorious for blowing gunk out of the stack, and droipping it via the cylinders onto the track and wheels. (Solution is a Chuffer or similar device. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr7vihU5E7Q ) 
As stated twice and given that the engine performed welll prior to: this is an oil deposit problem onto the drivers. Solutions have been given via Pete and the brake shoe trail of excessive oil. This is a given with many of the narrow gauge engines and no metered/modified lubricator. Let us know once these applications have been attended to as to performance


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks all for the suggestions and advice. 

I've now turned her over and looked carefully at the 'heights' of all of the drivers. 
Nos. 2 and 3 are both slightly twisted - higher than 1 and 4 on one side, and lower on the other. 

I've also eased back all of the brake shoes. 

I didn't explain the symptoms too well originally. 
When she's *not* in steam I can push her with one finger even with the drivers not turning. 
When she is in steam, the gas and throttle are really low to keep the pressure below 50psi. 

Hamish


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

Why do you want to keep it bellow 50psi?

I've run 13-14 car trains behind my c-19 on unleveled track, and it does just fine as long as the fire is hot enough to keep it at least 40~45 psi. anything bellow that and it'll just come to a stop.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Westcott on 17 Aug 2010 09:01 AM 
Thanks all for the suggestions and advice. 

I've now turned her over and looked carefully at the 'heights' of all of the drivers. 
Nos. 2 and 3 are both slightly twisted - higher than 1 and 4 on one side, and lower on the other. 

I've also eased back all of the brake shoes. 

I didn't explain the symptoms too well originally. 
When she's *not* in steam I can push her with one finger even with the drivers not turning. 
When she is in steam, the gas and throttle are really low to keep the pressure below 50psi. 

Hamish 

Sir - in order to maintain a useful level of steam it is necessary to generate more steam than you need on occasions. This is why you have a safety valve - to blow off excess. steam when it is not needed. You say that it is slipping after running around on your far from level track - surely you can see that this is the symptom of a loco that is short of steam. Trying to maintain a head of steam when you are hauling a consist that is well on the limit of this locomotive's capacity, uphill and down, and on the level, and expecting sterling performance all the time, is like leaving your car in third gear and trying to drive around the rockies. 

Every suggestion you have had so far is either a whole solution, or a cure for part of the problem - these little loco's are not rocket science. They need steam - sometimes a LOT for going uphill, and sometimes not, as in coasting along on the level with a constant load.

Fer gosh sakes turn up the wick to 60psi and let the poor thing BREATHE!! When the safety blows for the first time, THAT is when you should open the throttle and allow the loco to move away with the load. THEN think about re-setting the gas control - or not. This is why steam models are so hands-on - YOU have to do the driving, tending the fire or balancing the generation of steam against its use. And more to the point, this is why most of us who run live steam have more or less level tracks to run them on.

Only the powerful geared locos like Shays can cope with extended runs on hilly track with ease - why? - because they are generating steam like mad things AND using it up at a similar rate in the high-speed engine on the side. ANY Shay model is going to have a crankshaft rotating at least twice as fast or even more than a reciprocating rod engine like a C-16/19/21. 

My $0.02

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks all for your help. 

I contacted Cliff at Accucraft directly, and he 'talked' (by email) me through checking and adjusting the driver springs and heights. 
Gave the drivers a clean as well. 
All 10 cars were running freely, but I hadn't checked the tender - it needed a little oil. 
After all this detailed attention I took her for an extended run tonight without any slipping, until the gas ran out. 
At full throttle she'll now accelerate up the 80 foot 1.4% grade with the 10 cars, including brass caboose. 
Of course at the top I have to turn the throttle right down again! 
With experimentation I was able to adjust the gas so that she was just starting to blow through the safety valve at the start of the up grade. 
Pressure would drop on the climb, and rebuild on the down grade, ready for the next climb. 
The safety seems to lift at an indicated 50 psi. 

I haven't had that much fun for ages!


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Their you go now your steaming. Next R/C it and you have full control of your locomotive. 
The other thing that a few of us have done is replace the wheels sets on the tender with ball bearings wheels.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By livesteam53 on 18 Aug 2010 05:42 PM 
Their you go now your steaming. Next R/C it and you have full control of your locomotive. 
The other thing that a few of us have done is replace the wheels sets on the tender with ball bearings wheels. I seem to recall from an early test report - Marc Horowitz? - that the tender is not only exceptionally heavy, but seemed VERY reluctant to move and acted much like a drag anchor on this otherwise powerful model. Anyone else recall that?

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Westcott, 

Could you please let us in on what Cliff told you about the adjustments to the springs and drivers? I would appreciate this info as I also have one and would like to get it working better. 

Thanks.


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Hi Rich, 

Here's what he said - 

"If the wheels are not all touching the track then you will definitely 
loose traction. If there are 3 springs on each driver bearing take the 
center one out then make sure that all the bearings slide up and down 
in the frame without getting jammed. You can file the keepers at the 
bottom of the driver bearing to make them drop more if needed. However 
the center two axles can only drop till they just touch the rail head. 
Anymore and they will drop off the edge of the rail when going 
around a curve and derail the loco as it leaves the curve. The goal is 
to get all 8 drivers to make contact with the rail." 

And after I asked about spring removal and keepers, he kindly replied - 

"If there are 3 springs on the top of each axle bearing grab the center one with needle nose pliers and pull it out. This also might be done with a small flat blade screw driver . The keepers are the pieces that keep the driver axle bearings from falling out when you pick up the engine. They are generally held in with two screws or two little hex bolts." 

My keepers are held in with ctoss-head screws. 

I'm uploading a video to Youtube to show how she goes up the grade now with a good load. 

Hamish.


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## lvmosher (Jan 2, 2008)

Andre`

I use the Summerlands Chuffer

CLICK HERE TO SEE THEIR WEB SITE


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Here's a cab ride video of her in action - 

C-19 with 10 cars


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I swear I saw the hand of God! Twice!!! 

Nice run and layout, thanks for sharing. 
I'm glad you're having such a good time now. 

John


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Yes, it's that classical theatrical device of _deus se machina_


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

You got it running well now thanks for posting.


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Westcott. My C-19 has two springs on the center axles and three on the first and fourth axles. I think I will try to remove the center spring on those two axles and see what happens. 

I was going to elongate the screw holes on the middle two axles by a couple of thousandths to drop the middle drivers to the railhead. Did not get around to it however.


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