# QSI board in a coma?



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Okay, after seeing Tony's suggestions on installing magnets on the drivers of a locomotive, I decided to have a go at installing them on the drivers on my EBT #3, which is built on a Barry's Big Trains chassis that had no chuff contacts. I had long grown tired of the off-kilter "BEMF chuff" on this particular QSI installation, so off I went. That installation and changing to the cam-triggered chuff went 100% without incident. I couldn't have been happier with the results. 


So, since I had the PC and the decoder in the same room, I decided to do something that I'd done many times before--reprogram the QSI board to tweak the sounds. 

I load up the Q2 Upgrade software, select all my sounds, and hit "upload files." It plugs along, cheerfully wiping the flash memory on the Quantum, then it starts to write the new file. Then *poof*! Error writing files. 

I try again. 

Nothing. Error reading the USB interface.

Close the program, relaunch. No change.

Remove/replace the SILabs drivers for the USB interface. The SILabs error is repalced by a generic "Read Error."

Cycle the power on the Quantum, PC, and USB interface. Restart software. Go to retrieve locomotive information,


"Invalid Mfg ID = 0"

So now I've got a Quantum that seems to be lifeless, though have to believe it's only a programming thing. 


Is there something I can do here with the programmer, or is it "send it back" time? 


Thoughts and suggestions welcome. 


Later,

K


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

A little bit more troubleshooting... 

I closed the Q2 upgrade software, and opened the CV Manager software. It seems to at least acknowledge that there's a board there in that I reset everything to factory defaults without issue, and it can read and program individual CVs. It will not do anything, though. I hear a "click" sound from the speaker every now and then after another reset, I got hissing from the speaker. I then went to try the Q2 Upgrade software again, and it was successful in retrieving the loco information, though none of it made any sense... a build date of "10/11/12" and a modified date of "16/17/18." Then when I tried to get the loco info again, it gave me "Invalid MFG ID 18". 

I'm at a loss, but hopeful that perhaps someone can walk me through a resuscitation. 

Later, 

K


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Did you try resetting the board manually? The board should have come with a reed switch, which plugs into the board. Hold a magnet to the reed switch, then apply power to the card


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, a reset would be good. Make sure that there are no other loads across the "rails", i.e. the programming inputs (the track pins)... 

Can you read and write individual CV's with your cvmanager software? 

You may need to update the firmware in the programmer itself... I think you run the programming software, and then click on settings or something, and there is a selection to update the firmware. 

I can give you the exact sequence when I get home... 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Reading and writing the CVs is weird. Sometimes I can do it and when I verify it's the same, sometimes it's something that makes no sense whatsoever. (For instance, the long address was something like -59147 or something like that. I don't have it hooked up for an exact number, but it was negative and 5 digits long. When I went to set the decoder address (33) and went to verify that, it had set EVERYTHING to "33." VERY strange behavior. 

The firmware on everything should be the most up to date, since I updated all that jazz a few months ago when we were diagnosing the lack of drifting sounds on my board (caused by ancient firmware). That, and everything was working wonderfully up to that point. I had reprogrammed the card a few times over the past few months setting CVs etc. over the past few months tweaking this and that aspect. It's just that something seems to have hic-cupped while writing the sound file to the board, and now it seems to be scrambled. 

I'll try the manual reset and report back. Is there anything I should be looking/listening for to see if it was successful? Since I don't think there's a sound file loaded onto the board, does it have a basic default? (Kind of like Window's "safe mode?") 

Later, 

K


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Okay, I did the manual reset thing... turned it on with a magnet next to the reed switch and got an audible static from the speaker. Don't know if that's good or bad, but that's what I got. 

So, I hooked it back up to the Q2 Upgrade software, and got the same "Invalid MFG ID 0" error. I had been getting. 

I hooked it up to the CV Manager, and just programmed the CVs I had on file for that decoder. As it was programming, the loco motor twitched slightly as it received each new CV as it usually does. All good so far. I go back to read back the CVs, and they're completely jacked up. Nothing stuck at all... Primary address was 0, extended address was 16384, and it was downhill from there. 

I don't know if it's the board, the programming software, or the USB interface, but something's not behaving properly... 

Later, 

K


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Removed/re-installed the USB driver and the Q2 Upgrade software - same "invalid MFG ID 0" error. 

Ugh. Shoulda quit while I was a head last night... 

Shoulda taken the hint when my soldering iron crapped out that things were weird... 


Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin, if there is no sound file in the board, there is no "fail safe" and it will indeed act weird. 

The erratic behavior suggests that something is interfering with the programming, normally an extra load, like a light that is "across" the "track" pins. 

My number #1 suggestion is to be sure you have updated the firmware in the programmer... find that option, or I will help you... It may not be the problem, you NEED to do it. 

Then if all else fails, remove the unit from the loco and just connect the programmer to the track pins, the motor does NOT need to be connected. 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

To my knowledge, the software/firmware is all up to date. This is the newest stuff that I downloaded just a few months ago which has worked successfully to load new sound files on the board. As I mentioned--I've been using the software over the past few months (both the Q2 Upgrade and CV Manager) to tweak the loco's sounds and performance without any issue. There shouldn't be any extra load, either. I don't know how there could be. Since I'm battery power, I have to connect the programmer directly to the input terminals anyway. The only light is the headlight, which is connected to the board output, and the G-wire receiver is disconnected for programming. 

I sent QSI an e-mail to see if they had any thoughts as well. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Kevin, the firmware does not always automatically update, and most people do not update it because they don't even know about it. 

Yes, I remember a few months ago, but stuff changes... checking the versions is easy.... last time you were a bit miffed because versions had changed, I look upon it as a benefit that QSI constantly improves and adds features. 

Well, let's see what QSI's opinion is... I've given my best thoughts. 

Regards, Greg


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## darkdaniel100 (Dec 26, 2008)

Dont suppose you have another QSI decoder to try with that programmer?

When I had a faulty programmer I kept seeing the following error , in the end it had to be sent off for repair ! 


 Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Through the troubleshooting process, I removed/re-installed the USB driver, Q2 and CV manager software, so regardless of what it was two months ago and right up to the failure last night, it's the latest stuff from their web site now, and the results are the same. It's still not reading the manufacturer ID, and not retaining anything I try to program to the board. Another attempt at a manual reset changed nothing. I'm at a loss... I'm thinking "box it up and send it back" is probably going to be my only viable solution; something I was hoping to avoid given that if it needs to be replaced, there are no replacements. (On the other hand, it ain't like it's doing me any good here, either, so...) 

I'll let you know what QSI says when I hear from them. 

Later, 

K


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Daniel, that's the error I'd get when there was no connection to the board. I'm getting an "Invalid MFG ID #####" error, where the number seems to change depending on what the board seems to want to use. (I've had 0, 5, and 18). I think it's CV8 that it's reading for that, which is supposedly a read-only attribute. According to the documentation, it's supposed to be 113, but for whatever reason, it's being programmed to something else. 

Later, 

K


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I can only give you experience from an HO standpoint, since my large scale experience with QSI is nil. This sounds like a decoder problem. I wouldn't be surprised if you getting a short somewhere. Its going to take QSI to figure it out. Box it up and send it in, thats the good news. As you are probably aware with the Titan slooooooooooowly rolling out, I would bet you aren't going to get a quick solution to the problem.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Yeah, I'm pretty much resigning myself to that fate. Here's hoping it's just mega-messed-up software, and can be rebooted at the factory without having to wait for a replacement Titan to ship. (Though I'm looking forward to those as well.) After hearing the synched chuffs on my test railroad, I was really looking forward to getting #3 out in the back yard. Ah well, what can you do? Just glad I got TRR #3 back up and running with its new sound and control to do the Summer's heavy lifting. 

Later, 

K


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Might I suggest, if you have an extra mounting board, take the decoder out and put it on the extra mounting board, connect the QSI programmer and a 12v light or similar across the motor pins to provide a load and see what happens without any other connections..... It worked for me with a non-communicating board


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## Allen B (Sep 22, 2010)

Are you using the correct wall-wart? I had the same thing happen to me and after a lot of frustration, I discovered that buried deep in the instructions is a recommendation of a higher wattage wall-wart. Tried again and everything worked. Something about the "G-scale" QSI needing more power. Might give it a try. 
Allen B.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Allen, what's a "wall-wart?" And more importantly, where would one find a higher-wattage one? 

Later, 

K


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Progress? Well, probably not, but an interesting observation... 

If I use the CV manager to program CV8 to 113, close the CV manager, then open the Q2 Upgrade software, it reads the locomotive information. Alas, here's what it reads: 

Model: 1029 
Class: Diesel 
Version: 15.6.8.19 
Build Date 10/11/12 
Modified Date 16/17/18 
Hardware: 515 

When I then go to try to reload the soundset (the one that was last successfully loaded or any other one), I get the "invalid mfg ID 18" error. When I then open the CV manager software to read CV 8, it's set to 18. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

how's that programmer firmware update going?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg, as I mentioned above, I downloaded the latest whatever-QSI-has-for-download from their web site and re-installed everything. Which is to say I downloaded and re-loaded the same files you suggested I download and re-install a few months ago when we determined out-of-date firmware _was_ the root cause of the issues I was having. If I'm missing something else, perhaps you could post a link, because I'm not seeing it on their web site. 

Regardless, I heard back from QSI this morning, who suggested the only course of action is to send the board back to them to be reprogrammed. Evidently there's no "home remedy" for this kind of failure. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll give the step by step for checking the PROGRAMMER MODULE FIRMWARE, this is probably a good thing for me to put on my site... downloading and installing the latest WINDOWS PROGRAM SOFTWARE is not the same thing, as well as using the latest QSI DECODER SOUND SOFTWARE. 

I guess I have not done a good job of explaining, but the 3 capitalized items above are distinct and all need to be latest. 

From your last posts, it does sound like you have done everything right, but you know me, I like to check EVERYTHING, even if it seems like a low probability. 

I'll be interested in the outcome. I was pretty sure we could solve it ourselves. 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

What I think I'm missing is an explanation of why you think the firmware may be the issue when the combination I'm running has been working quite well up until this one error. What causes you to think it's a "not the latest firmware" issue that's at the root? 

Honestly, I have every confidence that the software and interface is working properly. I don't know what caused the glitch in the upload; it could have been any number of random things. It's how to recover from that glitch that is the issue, and there seems to be nothing on the consumer level that can be done to get the flash memory to reset itself to where it knows what to do with the data it receives. QSI says they'll "most likely" just replace it. (So I get to wait for the new Titans to become available.) 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

sigh.... yeah Kevin, your are right, what the **** do I know about computers, the QSI, programming... 

Yep, I must be an idiot... 

Sorry to waste your time... 

Greg 

p.s I won't come back to this thread to read any more responses, your attitude has indeed chased me away... why try to help someone who does not want help...


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Where did _that_ come from? How is my lack of understanding a reflection on your intelligence? Dare I say we seem to be communicating about as well as my QSI board is with the programmer. I did everything you suggested, I was just hoping for more of an explanation as to _why_ it's being suggested. 

At this point I think the only "waste of time" is further experimentation into reviving my board at home. None of the much-appreciated suggestions made here have done anything, and the tone of QSI's e-mail is more of replacement than repair. The board done gone to that big garden railroad in the sky and ain't no amount of debate here gonna change that. 

Later, 

K


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## Allen B (Sep 22, 2010)

Sorry K. I thought "wall-wart" was common lingo. It is the DC power supply that you plug into a wall socket. Looks like a "wart on the wall". You probably have a half dozen or more scattered through the house to charge your cell phone, home phone, etc. Any-who-who, the one that comes with the Quantum programmer is rated at 12VDC and 300ma. I switched to a 12VDC and 850ma and it worked! I have also used the programmer directly connected to a dcc booster to amplify the signal and that works also. I hope this helps. 
Allen B


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks, Allen. I kinda thought that's what you may have been referring to, but didn't know if it was somehow related to the retailer of similar name. Does QSI make a more powerful one, or can a generic 12-volt supply of suitable amprage (and the correct plug) work? I've not had noticeable issues with mine, but I do wonder if the different voltage (12 volts vs 14.8 of my batteries) has anything to do with my not being able to adequately calibrate the BEMF chuff on the workbench. I'd like to feed 14.8 volts to the boards so I know how it performs at the voltages I will be using. 

And again--thanks to _all_ (and Greg, that is inclusive) who offered suggestions. I'll let you know what happens when QSI gets the board. 

Later, 

K


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## Allen B (Sep 22, 2010)

K...I just used one I robbed from some other function...must have about 10 or 12 laying around. I used 12VDC/850ma and it worked for me. I don't know about the 14.8 but in operation it shouldn't make a difference, however...I don't know about the programming. Hope you hear good things from QSI. 
Allen B.


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