# How to Bond Brass to Wood?



## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

I am building a brass railtruck, of sorts.








I have confirmed my suspicions in the R/C forum, and have been told that to have much chance of radio reception, I need to at least make the roof out of wood, instead of brass.
I need to attach the thin plywood roof to the brass supports strong enough to bend the plywood:









Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Matt


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

We ran into this problem a lot when I had my effects company. We tried quite a number of things, but the best was a good quality contact cement...used properly. I think it was a Weldwood cement and the drying time was something like 24 hrs., but once the bond was made the wood would shred before the bond gave (it never did, actually). 
There may be more convenient solutions out there. Have you checked "this to that" site? 
Chris 
PS. Just checked it and here's the response;
http://www.thistothat.com/cgi-bin/glue.cgi?lang=en&this=Wood&that=Metal

PPS. One other thought; try and design in as much surface area of contact between the two materials for maximum grab.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Chris. I had never heard of the This to That website, but they suggest - among other things - JB Weld. I think I have some around here somewhere...
If that doesn't work, I'll try the contact cement.


Thanks again, 
Matt


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

Make sure you clamp the JB and wait till it is absolutely set, it can pop loose if it's not totally cured. 
Good luck! 
Chris


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you ever tried the JB Weld? If so, do you think the contact cement works better?

Thanks Chris


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## dltrains (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, 

The JB Weld is contact cement.It works great for dissimilar products. 

Dave


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

JB Weld has very little strength in tension or in shear. It will hold lots of stuff together until you try to pull on or twist it. If you're going to use it in this application, I'd suggest soldering a ledge or lip along the top of the body, to give it some surface area to work with, instead of just along the edge of the wood (and also to keep the stuff from sagging and running down as it cures)


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

JB weld is an epoxy, and Mik is absolutely right. I t will bond very dissimilar materials well, but not very strongly. If you can, drill some holes, or at least scrape the surfaces so that the adhesive has a little more "tooth". I prefer the contact cement, but only if there is enough surface area. And with contact cement, you only get one shot. If there's any way of preforming the roof piece with a couple of internal wood supports, it will go a long way to aiding the adhesion of whichever glue you choose. 
Chris


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

E6000. It's available form Tap Plastics. I also found it at my local ACE Hardware store. It is a flexible adhesive that is supposed to glue most things together.

Another glue that might do what you want os Omni-Stick. It is supposed to glue many things together, I bought mine on the internet.


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## dltrains (Jan 2, 2008)

I claim CRS, 
Welder contact adhesive I think I picked up at Lowes is what I meant not JB Weld 

Dave


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I use Welder all the time. It sticks stuff together well, but I'm not sure it will do as you want, though. The joint remains "flexible" for a looong time, which means if you try to force the other end down the already glued end WILL stretch and pop up some. 

Is there any way to steam the wood to shape first?


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm wondering why you don't use a mechanical joint. A couple of 0-90 bolts through the roof, or even some escutcheon pins, into a flange on the top of the walls would do the job nicely. Just sweat a couple of pieces of 1/4" brass L at the corners and you'll have your mounting points. That's what I do when attaching cab roofs, cabs to running boards, etc. 

P.S. very cool project, and nice work on the body!


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the info and comments, gents.

The main reason I had in mind (not necessarily correct) to bond the roof was because I had planned to use 1-2mm plywood to allow for the bending of the roof. I didn't think that material that thin would hold up to mechanical fasteners. From what you guys have told me here, I think I'm going to combine the two, and use maybe six bolts to help reinforce the bond. I'll probably use contact cement , and let it cure for a few days.

Thanks again,
Matt


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I second Vance's proposal to use 00-90 machine screws. Go to Micro Fasteners, they have brass model hex bolts and nuts in 00-90.

http://www.microfasteners.com/index.cfm

The extra texture from the model bolts will add to the model's appearance 


Make a quick nut driver from a 5/64" Allen set screw 




Looking good, Bob


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Micro sells some small drivers, they sure are handy!


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## markperr (Jan 7, 2008)

Seems to me that if you find a way to place the receiving antenna on the outside of the railtruck, you could make the whole thing out of brass. And yes, if the roof is brass, you've essentially made a Faraday cage and radio waves will not penetrate it. perhaps the antenna could be placed along the rooftop on some type of non conducting standoffs. it could be fashioned into a roofrack of some sort. Otherwise, I concur with the others that you'll need a mechanical bond. I don't know of an epoxy out there that will bond wood to metal very well.

Mark


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, a few years ago, I was doing some experimenting with wood to metal adhesives. I found that good old Goriila Glue stuck them together, period. About 2 weeks later I wanted to make a change and wanted to remove the wood. I grabbed it with a pair of pliers, yanked and actually broke the wood. Splintered it, but not at the joined area, the glue held.

Just 1 1/2 cents..


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markperr on 02/24/2009 1:41 PM
Seems to me that if you find a way to place the receiving antenna on the outside of the railtruck, you could make the whole thing out of brass. And yes, if the roof is brass, you've essentially made a Faraday cage and radio waves will not penetrate it. perhaps the antenna could be placed along the rooftop on some type of non conducting standoffs. it could be fashioned into a roofrack of some sort. Otherwise, I concur with the others that you'll need a mechanical bond. I don't know of an epoxy out there that will bond wood to metal very well.

Mark




Thanks, Mark. I posted in another thread that I am leaning toward the roof top rack idea. Haven't decided about the roof composition yet.

Matt


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stan Cedarleaf on 02/24/2009 1:52 PM
Matt, a few years ago, I was doing some experimenting with wood to metal adhesives. I found that good old Goriila Glue stuck them together, period. About 2 weeks later I wanted to make a change and wanted to remove the wood. I grabbed it with a pair of pliers, yanked and actually broke the wood. Splintered it, but not at the joined area, the glue held.

Just 1 1/2 cents.. " align="absmiddle" border="0" /> 


Thanks for posting, Stan. 1 1/2 cents is about all I can afford right now, anyway.








I bought some Gorilla Glue some time ago, but have never used it for anything yet. Maybe this will be a first...

Take care, 
Matt


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I also have used Gorilla glue for wood to brass. I make sure the brass is very clean. I rough up the wood that will attach to it a tad by scoring it a bit with a screwdriver or other tool. Be warned that the gorilla glue will expand. If this is your first use you might want to practice on a throw away item first. Clamping is very important - I usually clamp for a minimum of 4 hours.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally, I've had great results with thick CA bonding just about anything to anything. Stuff I built over 20 years ago is still stuck together. All my Hartford Products cars have been built with thick CA and are all going strongafter more than 5 years. I have heard moisture causes problems for CA, but since I don't leave stuff outdoors, it's never been an issue. Anyway, thick CA is my first glue of choice and it hasn't let me down yet. MHO.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, thanks for letting me know about the expansion. I didn't realize that. 

Dwight, I remember your CA'd models from a thread a long time ago. Very impressive, and a good testimony. I hadn't thought about CA, but I won't be leaving it outdoors, either, so it may be an option. 

Thanks, gents. 
Matt


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## benbailey50 (Feb 15, 2009)

Hi Matt.

My two cence worth.........







.....five/ten minuite epoxy may work for you also.

Ben.


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## Dale Loyet (Feb 12, 2008)

I use ZAP and have glued metal to wood with good results . ZAP is a brand name ,and available at many hobby shops. I clamp it, or put a weight on the project to hold it for about 15 minutes and it's good to go. It also comes in a thicker formula for filling small gaps. It's called ZAP a GAP.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Ben - Thanks for the reply. I hadn't thought of it, but I used to glue wood to aluminum with epoxy on R/C airplanes all the time, and it held up well, even with being fuel drenched. I think that would do the trick.

Dale - I think I saw ZAP a GAP back in the plane days, too. I may try it if the epoxy doesn't work out well.


Take care gents,
Matt


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

On the subject of using thick CA outdoors... if it's not on a porous surface and is properly painted, you shouldn't have a problem. My bridges were assembled with thick CA and have been outside 24/7 for up to three years so far. Moisture doesn't affect it because it can't get to it. The paint protects it from direct exposure, and the non-porous materials (styrene and G10 fiberglass) don't permit moisture to soak in. 

Now, I'm in sunny San Diego, so we don't normally get huge amounts of rain. But we do get some, and we get a lot of humidity, dew, and fog at night. If you're in a rain forest your results might vary... and I wouldn't recommend using it on something that's going to be submerged for lengthy periods. Nor would I recommend it for wood, since moisture will eventually soak in even if it's painted.


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