# ESU and JMRI question



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I posted this on the JMRI forum, but maybe someone here will know the answer. Having gotten fed up with the QSI delays, I recently bought two decoders, and ESU LoksoundXL and an ESU LokPilot motor only decoder. I put them in a LGB 0-4-0 and powered tender, as a consist, because the powered tender runs significantly faster than the loco. (they din't come as a set, and in the past i fixed this by using diodes to lower voltage to the faster loco)


Here's the odd thing--JMRI can read and program the Lok*sound* decoder with no problem. But the *lokpilot motor-only decoder* isn't being recognized. I can change the lokpilot's cvs on the mainline, and it responds perfectly. But I can't get JMRI to talk to it. 

I wonder if it's just a defective decoder? But the motor and lights all work just fine, and again it responds to programming on the main. 

Anyone have any ideas? The ESU decoders have a lot of neat features I've been wanting to mess with, like firebox flicker and the ability to dim lights. I can do it with CV directly, but it's a lot harder, and one of the nice tigns about JMRI is you get a configuration file with all your settings. Any ideas about why it won't work?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Just for the knowledge base--I got it to work by upping the voltage to the programmer. 

I was using a digitrax PR3 and a 12 volt power supply. When I upped the voltage to 18, it was able to read the decoder--not always, but intermittently, enough for me to get it programmed. Oddly, with 18v as the power supply I could not get a JMRI throttle to work. But I could get it to work on 12v. but on 12 v. I could not get it to recognize the decoder. 

Meanwhile, early tests with the Loksound decoder are very favorable


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... I think I'll skip ESU decoders! 

What are you driving the system with? I believe you have an NCE system. Are you using the NCE USB programmer, or going to the serial port. 

Since the programming commands are coming from the command station, it's pretty darn weird that you had these voltage-dependent problems... 

I have found many strange things when programming European decoders, and have found out that they use a non-standard "convention" when programming in service mode, they briefly drop power to the programming track just before issuing the command, which is NOT in the standard... and the reinforce the existence of this "convention", the amount of time power is dropped is adjustable on many systems... UGH! 

(I learned this programming the ProDrive decoders). 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Greg:

I dont think you understood my original message.

I'm using an Apple Macbook pro running JMRI.

Digitrax PR3 with 18 volt power supply. 


That's it. I have never been able to link the NCE to the Apple, gave up trying. 


The ESU decoder works perfectly when programmed on the main. Repeat--programming on the main works perfectly. It's only when trying to use decoder pro with the above setup that I have trouble. 

What's odd is that an ESU Loksound decoder worked perfectly with the above setup, when I was using a 12 volt power supply. 


I would not skip ESU decoders--the Loksound is really good, at least from the limited runs I've been able to give it. Lots of sounds of good quality, excellent motor control. The Lokpilot decoder, the one without the sound, is similarly good. I was able to program one of the function outputs as a flickering firebox light, and another as a cab light: the decoder lets you adjust the brightness of the light and it works with LEDS. I'll see how it plays out, but so far I'm very impressed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh, ok, now got it... was very surprised that the NCE would give you a problem. 

The Digitrax programmer is being used only for service mode programming? (programming track) 

surprised the serial link (assuming serial port, you did not confirm) could not be gotten to work on the Mac, pretty simple setup... JMRI on Mac supports serial port right? 

Or maybe you don't have a serial port adapter for the mac that worked? 

Would like to hear more on your "Mac" escapades. 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've tried several USB-to-serial adapters, and downloaded several different drivers, all at the recommendation of the JMRI folks. I always get the same message about the port not being found. Quit decoder pro, download drivers, restart the mac, try again, same message, quit decoder pro, uninstall drivers, restart, download new drivers, try again, same message. rinse, repeat.

Someone on the JMRI forum reported that his NCE Command station had a physical problem, a pin that didn't get soldered. I'm beginning to think it may be that.

I'm also thinking of trying this:

http://www.brainboxes.com/bluetooth-serial-port

A serial to bluetooth adapter


From the JMRI forum: "The only time I have had a problem connecting to a Mac was with first my everattempt and soon diagnosed that to a manufacturing fault in the construction of the NCE command station - a bent pin on the RS232 driver chip, and hence not soldered."


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

could you just try it on a pc once to verify if it's your mac or the NCE? 

I've never talked to anyone with a problem on the serial port, so I think that's a pretty rare occurrence. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I can boot up the mac in windows, but otherwise I don't really have a PC--a small netbook with USB only, I could try that. It's been irritating and according to most people, it should be easy. Tomorrow morning I'll take another crack at it


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Which Mac OS are you running? 
And which Mac OS is the latest version of JMRI compatible with? 
Everything I have read so far about JMRI references Mac OS 4, ie Tiger. That is av seven year old OS - did you check that JMRI is compatible with whatever Mac OS you are running? 

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

This popped up with google, maybe that will help

> >Hello,
> >I am using the latest version of JMRI with my Mac (MacBook Pro, running
> >OSX 10.5 to be precise), and I want to control a Lenz-compatible layout
> >with it, using a USB-to-serial adaptor.
> >I am using a Belkin adaptor, which works fine with other programs
> >(unlike what I've read in these forums, there are drivers for Mac OS X
> >if you look for them), even when used with VMWare and Windows with
> >WIndows-based programs.
> >When I start up JMRI with the Belkin adaptor connected, I cannot select
> >the serial port, it doesn't appear in the list.
> >Is there some way to have this serial port recognized by JMRI?
>
> Do _any_ serial ports appear in the list? If not, or if there are
> errors on the Console app, then perhaps the communications library
> hasn't been installed. See item 3 here:
>
> 
>
> Bob
> --
> Bob Jacobsen, UC Berkeley
> [email protected] +1-510-486-7355 fax +1-510-643-8497 AIM, Skype JacobsenRG
>
Hello Bob,
thanks for the suggestion, after following the steps in the link I did
manage to get everything connected, and it works fine.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Knut, I have been through that page multiple times, starting three years ago. But thank you very much for the suggestion. I have identified the chipset, installed the latest drivers, configured the port using a program called "zterm," and I still get the same messages from Decoder pro. I'll dig a little deeper in the JMRI discussion archives.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

What about my post before that about the JMRI compatibility with the Mac OS you are running? 
I have all my Macs on OS 10.6, have you confirmed that JMRI is compatible with that OS? 
I didn't see anything on the JMRI site that specifically mentions anything beyond Tiger.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Knut, that's a good point--I believe it is, the drivers for the chipset are compatible with 10.6. I have been running JMRI on 10.6 with no problems for some time now. My experience with the serial interface now is the same as it was on system 10.4.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I assume you are trying to resolve this issue: 

I've tried several USB-to-serial adapters, and downloaded several different drivers, all at the recommendation of the JMRI folks. I always get the same message about the port not being found. Quit decoder pro, download drivers, restart the mac, try again, same message, quit decoder pro, uninstall drivers, restart, download new drivers, try again, same message. rinse, repeat. 

Do you have any other device that uses a serial port to check if the USB/serial port interface on the Mac is OK? 

I should add that I have never used a serial interface on the Mac, but should you not see it show up on the desktop as soon as you plug it into a USB port?
So you don't really need anything connected to the port in that set up.


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

Back to ESU Loksound XL: I have 2 ( very pleased) and have found motor control is right behind Zimo. Wish I didn't sell 1 to my bro. 

The ESU sound file is vastly larger than Zimo. I think Zimo even uses some of ESU's sound files (US diesel). 

Alan


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Success! I finally got it to work, after setting up the virtual serial port with zterm.


Oddly, JMRI will still not recognize the Lokpilot decoder--it will write cvs, but not recognize the decoder. At this point, since it's working, I'm not going to mess with it. 


Regarding the Loksound, I think the sounds are really excellent. I was debating between Loksound and Zimo, and two things sent me to Loksound.

First, it's cheaper. The LoksoundXL 3.5, with screw terminals, is considerably less than the zimo with screw terminals. The Zimo with pins is about the same, but I didn't want to mess with pins.

Second, the documentation for ESU is just _much_ clearer. I've always found Zimo's website hopelessly confusing, and DCC can be complex enough without suffering through bad German/English translations. I wish Zimo would step up their game in the US. There's only one supplier for Zimo (who I've always had good experience with, I must in fairness admit). The sound file system is completely confusing--some are free, some you have to pay $35 to use on top of the cost of the decoder? No thank you.

I'd like to try the Zimo, since it gets such good reviews, and since I'm more and more convinced that QSI will be delayed forever. But the premium seems a little high.



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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for all the discussion Mike, and congrats on getting fired up enough to try again, looks like it was worth it! 

One last point of clarification please: You keep saying that JMRI won't "recognize" the Lokpilot decoder. Does this mean you cannot read CV's in service mode, or does it mean the "auto recognition" feature does not identify the make and model properly? 

Thanks, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By Greg Elmassian on 21 Jan 2012 09:00 AM 
Thanks for all the discussion Mike, and congrats on getting fired up enough to try again, looks like it was worth it! 

One last point of clarification please: You keep saying that JMRI won't "recognize" the Lokpilot decoder. Does this mean you cannot read CV's in service mode, or does it mean the "auto recognition" feature does not identify the make and model properly? 

Thanks, Greg 
Greg, good clarification. With the LokPilot decoder on the programming track, JMRI cannot recognize it using "ready type from decoder" or "identify loco." It sends a "not responding" or no loc on trac" message. But if I manually Identify the decoder, and open the programmer, it can read and write CVs and I can test lighting functons using the JMRI throttle


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, it's trying to read the manufacturer's id and version information, and appears to hang. 

And if you operate on a single CV, it WILL read it, right? 

So, sounds like a problem with the decoder firmware. 

Many decoders have a reset CV that when you read it, it gives a manufacturer id, but writing to it will reset it, so it might be something similar, i.e. a non-standard response or lockup when "talking" to a particular register. 

Regards, Greg


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