# Starting over on the 24' Carter bothers boxcar with questions



## HampshireCountyNarrowGage (Apr 4, 2012)

Hello everybody,

Well it's been two years since I anounced that Deerfield River Laser was going to cut a 24' Carter Brothers boxcar kit for me. Well after two years of having nothing to show for my money except a box full of over size pieces of wood, I called him on it. He hasn't done a single thing on it since my meeting with him last summer so I pulled the plug. The only good thing is he says he'll return my money.

So now what to do? I've started thinking about buying my own laser cutter and cutting the car myself. I'm also thinking about starting a cutting company. I can do the design work and drawings needed for it to work as I was a mechanical designer before my forced retirement. I'd like to have a company that I can suppy cutting services for individuals at a very reasonable cost. But and this is *BIG* but, is there enough work out there to help pay for it. I'm not looking to get rich with this adventure, enough to pay for the cutter and then some pocket money. My first project would be the boxcar followed by a 24' Carter flat car. Both cars would use parts and trucks from Hartford Large Scale Products by Ozark Miniatures.

So my question to all of you is, What would you do? Do you think there is enough work out there to support the cutter? There aren't many laser cutting companies out there doing large scale which leads me to believe there isn't that much interest and work. I'm on the fence about this and could use some advice. Be honest about this and don't worry about busting a dream.

Thanks​


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I've had the same experience with Deerfield River. Lots of promises, but zero results. Luckily, I've never sent them any money, Hope you get yours back.

My attitude as to the rest is, nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you do good work and provide good service, odds are you'll slowly build a clientele. Stan has made himself the "go to guy" for decals by doing just that. 

Since large scale is a small market, I'd recommend you also provide cars for the HOn3, On30, and On3 crowds. Once you draw something on CAD, scaling it is a snap, and you'll greatly increase the number of potential customers.

Micro-Mark just brought out *their first laser cutter* btw. Check it out.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Chester, that's great that are you comfortable doing the design / drafting work needed for the patterns. 

Before spending the $$ for the cutter though, you might want to consider doing your pattern drawings first, and having them cut by a service like Ponoko or LaserAlliance or a firm local to you. That way you can gauge the processes start-to-finish, and decide then if it's worth the laser purchase.

Another service is IronHorseEngraving.com. He (John Pletcher, [email protected]) had a nice booth at ECLSTS, displaying various samples. Also, he cuts kits, and had a beautiful passenger car & caboose on display. And, he quotes whatever you need cut. So you might want to call him and chat about your projects, who knows, you might be able to collaborate on somthing. BTW, he gave me a lot of things to consider when purchasing a laser cutter -- when the time comes. 

Just my 2 cents,
Cliff


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## RGSNH (Jan 13, 2008)

Chester,

As others have said, do the design, but let someone else do the cutting. unfortunately there is not enough interest in kits (especially large scale) for you to do enough volume to justify the expense. You know who I use.

Al P.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> So my question to all of you is, What would you do?


I second Cliff's comments about calling and talking to John at I.H.E. I would also call Alan Friedland at G.A.L. [ www.thegalline.com ] who does laser cut styrene. (Any reason your boxcar has to be wood? Alan's wood-scribed styrene is a pretty good imitation.)


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

And I second Pete's suggestion about Alan, I met him last Thursday (at the D&B), and he had a simply amazing REA reefer, all custom made with laser-cut styrene. He's a long-time drafter / model-maker who also is passionate about his craft.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I agree with almost everything said above, I own 4 lasers in my business, I get to use them to play with after hours too. I have designed and built many items that uses the laser, I have cut some pieces for a friend of mine, he drawed them up. 99% of the time is the drawing. Complicated drawings, once cut, then there is changes that need to be made, things that did not show up in the drawings.
I draw everything in 3D cad first. I strongly recomend 3D because it shows so much more than you see in 2D CAD.
I turn down oportunities to make stuff for people because of the design time. The time that I have in designing for my own models are many many hours. For me 90% of the time I spend designing is time in front of TV in the evenings, so it is easy time for me. As the parts are being cut you find changes that needs to be made in order for everything to fit properly. 
A laser will be the funnest tool/toy you will ever buy. If I was retired I would never have a boring minute.
Expensive, ? yes, whatever you buy make sure you buy it from a laser machine dealer that has been around for years and looks like will stay around for years.
Need someone that can provide parts and tech help, they do need work and parts occasionally. 
These machines are quite complicated, and when people buy these units on the web like ebay from a nobody business, usually ends up stuck in the corner collecting dust.
My suggestion buy one from a good repital dealer that provides good support, spend the extra $$ so your machine can run to make you parts and money.
I own a laser Pro and 3 epilogs.
I buy acrylic in 12"x24" sheets,
Laser power is measured in watts, my units are the following 30-40-40&45 watts .
Just seen the Micro Marks in their catalog, it says 1000 watts, that is power used to run it. 
that is not cutting power. With their cutting specs, I am guessing it to be around 20 cutting watts. 
If you can afford a good unit, and you can design your own models in different scales and willing to do custom lasering you will be a busy guy.
Dennis


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## HampshireCountyNarrowGage (Apr 4, 2012)

Hi guys,

Thanks for the replies. You’ve all have said about what I thought would be your answers and I agree with all. I still have some additional research to do on this subject.

Dwight, yes I’ve seen the new cutter offered by M-M. The problem with it is the cuttingarea is only 10” square which pretty much limits it. And yes, I too am a repeat customerof Stan.

Cliff, thanks for the heads up on John. I will write to him and hear what he has to say. 

Also your idea of doing the drawings and having someone else to burn it is an idea worth looking into.

Al P. Thanks for the advise but not sure who you use.

Peter, I have dealt with Alan twice and both times I came away with bad feelings. A couple of years ago I was looking to have a new cab cut out of brass for my steam locomotive. At the time his ad said he cut metal. I contacted him and after a couple of emails he finally said he couldn’t do it. I later found out it was because of the reflective ability of the brass reflecting the laser light back into the lens which made it impossible but can be remedied by coating the brass with layout blue. Why he didn’t know this I do not know. The second time was when I wanted to have a set of David Fletchers Carter Brothers Passenger cars cut. He said I would have to have four of each car cut at $400 a pop. No I don’t think I’ll be going to him again.

Dennis, yes, I use to work in 3D and loved it. I use to have Solidworks on my computer from work but lost it in a computer crash. Would love to have it again but can’t afford it right now. I looked into the free software, forgot the name of it, I do that a lot lately, but never really sat down to master it. I should try it again as I have thought about doing the design work in 3D. I have DraftSight which I like for doing 2D work.

I still have a lot to think about and learn. I also need to find a way of paying for this adventure. As they say, if there is a will, there is a way. We shall see. I’ll keep you posted.

Thanks again.


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