# RhB Panorama cars by Kiss - one big step closer to shipment



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm sure there was a thread in this European forum already but search didn't bring it up and neither did looking through the last eight pages of topics.

Today, FGB in Berlin, a German Large Scale dealer, received the first completed model of the Kiss RhB panorama car and wrote up a brief review of it.


You can read the review on the Large Scale database:
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=3389&l=english

but in summary - he is quite impressed with the quality of these models and the attention to detail.

These cars seem to turn out to be fantastic models, well worth the wait.

Knut


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Excellent news Knut...I can hardly wait to get mine! You can tell he was really impressed from his review--it sounds like they have a good system of power pickup, which I know you were concerned about. 

Keith


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

keith,

The description by Frank of FGB sounds almost too good.

It's not totally clear to me how they handled the power pick up so I'm going to call Frank tomorrow to talk to him. 

Anything specific you are interested in that is not yet covered?

Here is a picture from Frank's website - it shows the power pick up but not in enough detail to satisfy me.

Knut


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Knut, 

I'm sure not a fan of those shiny wheels.... 

It looks like the axle bushings (hope they are brass and not steel) transfer power to those strips, which I guess is better than a friction style pickup. 

Keith


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

That GBDB web site has VERY GOOD Search for DB German PIKO & LGB & other "foreign" G Gage rolling stock history (both current & new)....... 

They have the Best photo views of the brand new "value based" 31" PIKO silver commuter cars & nice shots of the PIKO Taurus engine variations. 

No prices listed.... but nice specs listed.


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi Knut,

The trucks do seem out of step with the detail of the rest of the car.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Just received a few comparison photos from FGB-Berlin of the Kiss car vs the LGB car that was released recently as a set of four:


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By stanman on 15 Oct 2011 01:16 AM 
Hi Knut,

The trucks do seem out of step with the detail of the rest of the car. 

Stan,

Never noticed that until you pointed it out.

USA Trains and Aristocraft have paid a lot of attention to additional truck detail on their cars lately - is that what you are comparing this to?
I was more concerned about the power pick-up where Kiss didn't have a very good solution on their RhB Middle-entry cars but the solution here is much better.

The interior of thes Kiss cars is excellent - the wheels could probably do with a bit of darkening and maybe the trucks as well - I would have to dig out a picture of the prototype to see how one can improve this car, but basically it looks like a well executed model.

First shipment from Kiss is currently scheduled for about 14 days from now,

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Since in the picture you can see that the wheels on the "far side" have no insulator, and the fact you only see one wire, the wheel that is uninsulated is the pickup wheel, and the axle tips must be in a metal journal. 

So each truck only picks up on 2 wheels from one side of the truck. Not great, but workable... Aristo does the same thing. 

Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

The LGB cars look like repaints of their Glacier Express cars, do they come with ball bearing wheel sets as well?
They have the angular roof line and panoramic windows, which while correct for the Glacier Express cars, 
are not correct for the Bernina Express which has a curved side to roof line, which the KISS cars have.

Ron


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 15 Oct 2011 02:12 PM 
The LGB cars look like repaints of their Glacier Express cars, do they come with ball bearing wheel sets as well?



The LGB cars come with the "standard" one ball-bearing axle for power pick-up and one standard metal axle on each of the trucks.
Rolling resistance of the LGB cars is just slightly less than the rolling resistance of these Kiss cars - quite low in both cases. 


The LGB cars have the standard seating arrangement, 2+2, in both the first class and second closs coaches whereas the Kiss ones have the proper 2+1 in first class and 2+2 in second class and of course the LGB cars don't have the curved windows or the air conditioning unit on the roof.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Ahh ok so they are just repaints of the Glacier Express cars.

I think the KISS set will look very nice behind My Blue LGB Bernina Express engine









Ron


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Any way to work on that coupler/car gap? Or is that out unless you are running a 20' radius or the like? 

Not a fan of most modern image stuff myself, but they do look like nice models regardless.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 15 Oct 2011 01:43 PM 
Since in the picture you can see that the wheels on the "far side" have no insulator, and the fact you only see one wire, the wheel that is uninsulated is the pickup wheel, and the axle tips must be in a metal journal. 

So each truck only picks up on 2 wheels from one side of the truck. Not great, but workable... Aristo does the same thing. 

Greg 
Greg,

Which Atisto items have this type of power pick-up?
It's a somewhat different approach than any of the cars I have, any potential issues with that approach?


I would have thought one could have used a standard insulated metal axle and thus get a power pick-up on both sides of each truck using that approach.


Here is a larger picture:


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 15 Oct 2011 03:21 PM 
Any way to work on that coupler/car gap? Or is that out unless you are running a 20' radius or the like? 


I don't see why these replacement couplings wouldn't work - they reduce the gap from 30 to 14mm and the cars will still handle R1










See the difference they make: 


http://www.fgb-berlin.de/galerie/details.php?image_id=2354


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Yes - and even compared to the LGB trucks. Maybe the shiny wheels are distracting me too...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo heavyweight cars and their steam tenders use that method, pros are low drag, inexpensive... cons are poor contact and only pickup from one wheel per axle. 

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By stanman on 15 Oct 2011 08:15 PM 
Yes - and even compared to the LGB trucks. Maybe the shiny wheels are distracting me too...
Stan -

This particular dar, the Ap 1291, used the SIG 90 trucks or bogies.

Here is a picture of the real one - under a different car body; the Kiss model is below that - tried to get the same size as best I could.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Here is a nice overall comparison of Kiss and LGB cars with the photos taken at pretty much the same angle:
Besides the obvious differences, one must have the lettering "backwards:, ie on the wrong side I would think.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

This was the original comparison of the LGB car when it was first announced (upper photo) compared to the actual RhB car (lower picture)


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Another car of these RhB panorama cars by Kiss was added to the database, this time the "Bernina" version.
A picture of each side since they are different. both currently on the main page:

http://www.gbdb.info/

If they are no longer on the main page when you check this link just type Bernina into the seach field.

Best to use a single search term since the simple search is set up as an OR search, you can use the advanced search to use either OR or AND...and also be more specific which fields you want searched.

Knut


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

My set of the KISS Bernina Panorama cars arrived last week and I have to say the blow the LGB cars out of the water.

I got a 5 car set in the original design,1st class cars A1292 with the Bernina Express logo and A1293 no logo,Second class cars B2503 no logo, B2504 no logo, and B2506 with the Bernina Express logo.

The detail and appearance far exceed the LGB Panorama cars and they will sell out fast. I hope KISS decides to do a Glacier Express set, if so my LGB cars are history.

Ron


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