# ANOTHER POWER QUESTION???



## RioShay (Feb 26, 2009)

Thank you all for the informative n entertaining contributions on this great website. Linda n i have laid down about 250 ft of a stainless loop of track, ten ft curves, with about a hundred of it trestled, bridged, or riding atop a precarious ridge thru our mountan logging camp. we have a question about powering up our railroad, and would appriciate any n all advice/insight from you all. we will be using a DCC system in the future, but would like to run some trains fairly soon. IF we were to hook up something like MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller now. could we later use this unit for the power supply for a yet undetermined DCC system? If so, how?... and if not, what would work? Thanks! (we're too overwelmed with DCC info to make a decision right now)


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

A DC power supply/controller will not work on all DCC systems as some require AC input, such as Zimo. 

However, that supply would be usable for a bench supply for testing purposes or a temporary layout.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds lovely. 

You might be able to pick up a 27MHz Aristo TE fairly inexpensively these days. Nothing like walking around the layout with a remote.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe you could use the 10 amp MRC unit, sure. Just set it to deliver the voltage you want, and forget it. 

I run that way--I have a power supply deliver 21 volts of DC to the rails, and then run each loco on remote control. I'm using a mix of Aristo's 75 mhz TE, and QSI/Airiwre, and eventually I'll probably go all the way to track-power DCC. Right now, with QSI/Airwire, I have wireless DCC, and it's great, but each time I want to RC a loco I have to buy a decoder AND a wireless receiver. It would be cheaper in the long run to buy a track-power DCC rig.

I find DCC gear very daunting and confusing, despite the kind efforts of people here to explain it to me. 


It's possible, I suppose, that the MRC unit would nt be a good power suply for a DCC booster--someone more knowledgeable than me will surely chime in 


Hey, where are the pictures?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jeeze Tom, he asks about DCC and you reply with an Aristo TE. (Which is NOT DCC, no matter which Aristo TE system you purchase) 

If you think using a TE is good, then you would faint from pleasure using an NCE wireless DCC system. 

By the way, the NCE accepts DC and AC as input, and the MRC 10 amp would be fine as Mike says. 

Regards, Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Most DCC boosters will happily accept AC or DC as a power source. However, not all big power packs make the best source of power for a large DCC booster. 

If your input is DC, then the available DCC output voltage will be the DC input minus 3 to 4 volts. The input current will be roughly the same as the output current plus whatever current that the command station and booster need for their operation. 

If your input is AC, then the available DCC output voltage will be the AC input x 1.4 minus the same 3 to 4 volts. The input current will be about 1.6x the output current. 

You will want about 22 to 24 volts of DCC on the track for mainline speeds, about 16 to 18 volts for NG speeds. This means that for mainline operation, you will want 26 to 28 volts of DC at 10 amps or better. Most DC power packs will not do this. For AC input, you will want 18 to 20 volts AC at 16 amps. 

If you just want to chug a train around for now, then find a smaller, less expensive power pack for the interim. You will need it later anyway to test new locos that have not yet been converted to DCC.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

He was looking for inexpensive track power to get started before investing in DCC.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Actually, Tom, he asked for a power supply to use now that he can later use with dcc if he goes that way. 
He specifically asked about using a MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The original poster wants to run trains on conventional DC now and then switch to DCC later. 

That MRC 10 amp unit gets good reviews here. You could also buy a power supply and a throttle--that's what I did. I bought a meanwell 10 amp 24 volt power supply on ebay I think, a Mean-well S-320-24. It has been rock-solid for over two years now. Then I bought an aristocraft/crest 10 amp throttle. At the time, the combination was cheaper than the MRC 10 amp. It may still be, depending on how you shop around


I still use both. The throttle I leave set to 21 volts and use for its circuit breaker protection, or use when I get a loco with no remote control. If I ever go to straight DCC, I plan to use the meanwell power supply


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago where I was using the TE system with a switchable elite power supply and wanted to go to DCC. After talking to a friend of mine I was able to use the elite to power up my DCC system. That saved me some bucks when I converted to DCC. So you came to the right place to get the answers you need. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Seemed to me a nice solution, both for now and when he's ready to install DCC later.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I use an Aristo Elite to power a DCS200 command station. The Elite puts out 21 volts which is just enough to get 18 volts to the track for the indoor NG layout. This is fine for NG speeds but won't hack it for mainline speeds. 

The Elite is also wired to power an Aristo 5401 controller which is hardly used anymore. The 5401 then provides power to a 5470 which I also hardly ever use. The three don't interfere with each other because some DPDT switches only allow one to be connected to the track any any one time.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's one reason I keep recommending the MRC unit. I recommend 24 volts DC in for most DCC systems (that can take DC). I use 27 volts myself which get very close to 24 to the track (after the DCC booster), and gets about 21 to the motor itself. 

This took a bit of experience to come up with, but there are many passenger and freight diesels (the Aristo E8 and the Aristo SD45) which are very low geared and will not approach prototype top speeds (notice I said approach) with 18 volts to the track, just as George has stated. 

Another alternative is to buy a switching power supply like I did, the MeanWell units are competitively priced, but you will have to add a power cord. 

Not trying to muddy the waters, but planning ahead and taking a bit more time will save you $$ in the long run. (This is basically why I did not recommend buying a TE as an "extra" middle step. I would go from DC to DCC and not buy something you won't use later). 

Regards, Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Don't try that 24-27V with the 3-truck Quasinami....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

And I get 19 .5 volts to the track. Works fine for my needs. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, it's that Georgia air RJ! Everything grows there! Weeds, Kudzu, and voltage! 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ya buddy come check it out. Later RJD


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Do yourself a favor and buy a Bridgewerks power supply and if you need remote capability then buy a model with that option.

Most of the Bridgewerks Mag models have a set of binding posts on the rear that supplies 24-30 volts DC if/when you need some serious power.

Bridgewerks are made in the USA and if it ever needs service it will be fixed within a week.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I know Bridgewerks is a nice expensive supply, built nicely. But it's a bad choice for DCC... it is not regulated, and there are many experiences with overvoltage... it's also overkill for what he needs. 

I know I will get static for this, but I believe it's not a good choice here for the stated purpose. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

STATIC............ Good thing i live in NY and not Cal. he he he


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 05/23/2009 3:52 PM
Do yourself a favor and buy a Bridgewerks power supply and if you need remote capability then buy a model with that option.

Most of the Bridgewerks Mag models have a set of binding posts on the rear that supplies 24-30 volts DC if/when you need some serious power.

Bridgewerks are made in the USA and if it ever needs service it will be fixed within a week.




I have a Mag 10 Bridgewerks.... lovely... 

Problem is and I am no electrician... when I set my voltmeter to it I get DC voltages all over the place... confusing.. 

gg


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/23/2009 11:29 PM
Well, I know Bridgewerks is a nice expensive supply, built nicely. But it's a bad choice for DCC... it is not regulated, and there are many experiences with overvoltage... it's also overkill for what he needs. 

I know I will get static for this, but I believe it's not a good choice here for the stated purpose. 

Regards, Greg

*Greg is right.... I have repaired so many rolling stock and Eng's with LED's in them that have been blowen using Bridgewerks.. There good for power if you have some kind of a load for it to reference to.. but not just LED lighting by it self... 

A year or so I gave a report on the older 4 throttle Bridgewerks for a person to put on E-bay. So to warn them of the problems. 
But ........they are great for heavy loads running mult. Eng's. This thing had 4 -10 amp transformers in it and unregulated voltage would jump up to 28 volts. DC. They can handle anything for extra power.. 

To me.. DCC needs a clean fixed/ regulated voltage.

We went thru the old school on DCC in Ho. Trains years back. 
We had the same problem with home made power supplys not being regulated... 
*


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

OK, so assuming that you have a Bridgewerks and want to keep on using it. 

How would you regulate the voltage off it if that was possible? 

gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*By using the throttle and not the fixed port on the back that is rated for 24 volts. i have a TDR 25 and never had a issue running anything....







*


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

I'm using the throttle and I need to check how I set up my voltmeter.... wanky thing.. 

OK.... I'm not an electronics buff.... sue me....


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Sensative arnt we... he he he, i have forgotten to mention that my TDR has a built in volt meter........







your in Canada rite, lawyers are too much $ up there. Come to NY i'l sue you here ha ha ha... my 1st wife was Sue.... kinda touchy subject... see GG you had to bring up Sue didnt YOU HE HE HE *


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 05/27/2009 7:27 PM
*Sensative arnt we... he he he, i have forgotten to mention that my TDR has a built in volt meter........







your in Canada rite, lawyers are too much $ up there. Come to NY i'l sue you here ha ha ha... my 1st wife was Sue.... kinda touchy subject... see GG you had to bring up Sue didnt YOU HE HE HE *




Ok, would this be the happy state of New York or the City of same? 

No, I am not sensitive however recognize that this train bit and automation of same is not simple... 

Now, I am glad to live up here in the north land where I can actually say something logical and not get sued !!! 

Joke is on me, my man...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Moving the throttle just adjusts the output voltage at the current load. Change the load, and the voltage changes. Too little load and often you get too much voltage. 

The throttle is not regulation, regulation is performed by a circuit the Bridgewerks (because it is not a regulated supply, was not designed that way) does not have. 

Making a regulator circuit for a Bridgewerks would cost a lot of money, a lot, not practical. You want to regulate the voltage "as it is being made". 

A regulator is like the cruise control on your car, it modulates the fuel to the motor to vary the power to achieve a desired speed. 

Regulating a bridgewerks would be like mashing the throttle down and controlling the speed with ONLY the brake. Not efficient. 

The Bridgewerks does fine for what it was intended to be, a large, high capacity, DC throttle with lots of current and highly filtered output. 

DCC works fine with an inexpensive regulated switching power supply, at hundreds of dollars less for the same voltage and current. 

If I was running DC and had lots of $$, I would have bridgewerks. If I was running DCS I might consider it, as long as the overvoltage problems were solved on the model I had (Which might be true for all Bridgewerks, I don't know), for DCC, $82 buys me a 27 volt, 11 amp supply that works fine with my NCE DCC 10 amp booster. 

Regards, Greg


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## RioShay (Feb 26, 2009)

Thank you all again for the variety of ways we might power up our R/R. linda n i are running an RC train on about 70% of our mainline loop, for now, and already entertaining the nieghborhood and quad riders coming by the back fence. i've found the meanwell S 320-24 for about $110-120, but since we picked up all our SS track from one of the forums sponsers, st aubin's, we thought that maybe the "everest 15A/24V PS with 15A controller they carry, would work for us if the power supply is regulated? (hard to tell by their ad) ... but after a discussion at dinner, we realized we will only be running one, maybe two locos very slowly around our mtn short line. will 15A/24V be our ticket for fun running on a layout like ours, or is it overkill and a 10A/18v system all we need?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Do not use the Everest with DCC, the 2 units I have experience with shut themselves off on DCC boosters. I would buy the Elite at 10 amps (or is it 13?) plenty good enough and no problems with it by anyone... The Meanwell should not cost you over $85.... 

Regards, Greg


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## RioShay (Feb 26, 2009)

THANKS GREG, hands-on experience is everything. i took a look at the elite, and w/ the 10A controller, we think that will get us rolling this year. and can power up an NCE DCC system later. i checked e-bay and several other listings and couldn't find the 320-24 any less( plus shipping)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/s-320-24.shtml

24v, 12.5 amps, $71, same place I bought my MeanWell...

Regards, Greg


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## RioShay (Feb 26, 2009)

THANKS AGAIN GREG and MLS'ers!, we ordered the S-320-24 from them today, and will pick-up an ultima 10A controller to use with it, and beleive we're headed in a pretty good direction now, thanks to all the info gathered from MLS, we'll be having FUN running trains, and maybe not taking multiple steps full of frustration or discouragement. you mentioned adding a power cord to the 320, if its pretty straight forward, then great, if there's any tips i can use, please let us know


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There are screw terminals on the end of the power supply, drop by Home depot, pick up a 3 prong cord (probably a couple of bucks), and it would not hurt to put crimp on terminals on the ends of the 3 leads, or you could twist the wire, and solder it. I added an on-off switch in line with mine.

I bought a power cord, then slit the jacket, and just took out the black wire, cut it, and connected it to the SPST switch you see above with the red tape on it.

I left the white and green wires intact. Then the end of the wire goes down to the meanwell on the bottom of the stack in this picture.


Regards, Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/23/2009 11:29 PM
Well, I know Bridgewerks is a nice expensive supply, built nicely. But it's a bad choice for DCC... it is not regulated, and there are many experiences with overvoltage... it's also overkill for what he needs. 

I know I will get static for this, but I believe it's not a good choice here for the stated purpose. 

Regards, Greg


But Greg you say quote"That's one reason I keep recommending the MRC unit. I recommend 24 volts DC in for most DCC systems (that can take DC). I use 27 volts myself which get very close to 24 to the track (after the DCC booster), and gets about 21 to the motor itself. "

So what your saying is the MRC unit is regulated??


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chuck, as the thread has progressed, the focus and the discussion has likewise.

The original question is/was:

Thank you all for the informative n entertaining contributions on this great website. Linda n i have laid down about 250 ft of a stainless loop of track, ten ft curves, with about a hundred of it trestled, bridged, or riding atop a precarious ridge thru our mountan logging camp. we have a question about powering up our railroad, and would appriciate any n all advice/insight from you all. *we will be using a DCC system in the future*, but would like to run some trains fairly soon. *IF we were to hook up something like MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller now. could we later use this unit for the power supply for a yet undetermined DCC system?* If so, how?... and if not, what would work? Thanks! (we're too overwelmed with DCC info to make a decision right now) 



So, is the MRC a good choice in this case? Yes I think so:
[*]not expensive [*]can be used to run trains now [*]can be used later to run DCC [/list] Now, the Bridgewerks has been documented (many posts in this and other forums) to SOMETIMES put out a very high voltage when lightly loaded. I have seen no posts that the MRC does this, and I have an MRC and mine does not do this.

Therefore I believe it is not the best choice for DCC, for exactly the reasons in my post you quoted.

Maybe "bad" is an inflammatory adjective, but if it was inexpensive and had the propensity to have overvoltage that would make it a poor choice. The fact that it is expensive and had this propensity and DCC is sensitive to overvoltage when you run near the "limit" as we usually need to in large scale DCC... then my OPINION is that it is a bad choice (for DCC).


No, the MRC is not regulated, but it is not expensive and does not have any reported overvoltage problems to my knowledge.

That's just about as logical and factual as I can be based on my research, reading forums and personal experience as explained above.


Regards, Greg 


p.s. in the light of other recent threads, what I recommend for others is based on my best perception of their needs and priorities as they state it, which may be different than my needs and priorities.


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## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

Hello: I am a newbie and this may sound stupid......but could a person use two PC power supplies in series for a 24V dcc supply? They are regulated and I have a bunch laying around....I don't have a sparky but may end up with one eventually. DCC was just starting when I had to get rid of my HO layout so I have no experience in it. I don't guess this is stealing the thread as the original poster may be interested in the answer too. 

Johnny


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Not stupid. 
Except, they must be wired in *parallel* (not series) with a suitable diode on each of the + positive outputs to prevent back feeding one to the other. 
I do it all the time with three x 3.8 amp 24 volt supplies to power a 10 amp trackside R/C I make.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You could also wire two 12v regulated supplies in series. There should be no problem with that. You could also wire two unregulated supplies in series. 

One thing that would be advisable is for them to have similar or identical current capabilities. 

Regards, Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/07/2009 7:03 PM
Chuck, as the thread has progressed, the focus and the discussion has likewise.

The original question is/was:

Thank you all for the informative n entertaining contributions on this great website. Linda n i have laid down about 250 ft of a stainless loop of track, ten ft curves, with about a hundred of it trestled, bridged, or riding atop a precarious ridge thru our mountan logging camp. we have a question about powering up our railroad, and would appriciate any n all advice/insight from you all. *we will be using a DCC system in the future*, but would like to run some trains fairly soon. *IF we were to hook up something like MRC's "big handled "10amp PS/controller now. could we later use this unit for the power supply for a yet undetermined DCC system?* If so, how?... and if not, what would work? Thanks! (we're too overwelmed with DCC info to make a decision right now) 



So, is the MRC a good choice in this case? Yes I think so:
[*]not expensive [*]can be used to run trains now [*]can be used later to run DCC [/list] Now, the Bridgewerks has been documented (many posts in this and other forums) to SOMETIMES put out a very high voltage when lightly loaded. I have seen no posts that the MRC does this, and I have an MRC and mine does not do this.

Therefore I believe it is not the best choice for DCC, for exactly the reasons in my post you quoted.

Maybe "bad" is an inflammatory adjective, but if it was inexpensive and had the propensity to have overvoltage that would make it a poor choice. The fact that it is expensive and had this propensity and DCC is sensitive to overvoltage when you run near the "limit" as we usually need to in large scale DCC... then my OPINION is that it is a bad choice (for DCC).


No, the MRC is not regulated, but it is not expensive and does not have any reported overvoltage problems to my knowledge.

That's just about as logical and factual as I can be based on my research, reading forums and personal experience as explained above.


Regards, Greg 


p.s. in the light of other recent threads, what I recommend for others is based on my best perception of their needs and priorities as they state it, which may be different than my needs and priorities. 






Well Greg that's great that YOUR topic has moved on but I feel that your misleading folks with YOUR facts.

Earlier in this thread George posted " You will want about 22 to 24 volts of DCC on the track for mainline speeds, about 16 to 18 volts for NG speeds. This means that for mainline operation, you will want 26 to 28 volts of DC at 10 amps or better. Most DC power packs will not do this. For AC input, you will want 18 to 20 volts AC at 16 amps."

Greg your own post on page one agrees with George "That's one reason I keep recommending the MRC unit. I recommend 24 volts DC in for most DCC systems (that can take DC). I use 27 volts myself which get very close to 24 to the track (after the DCC booster), and gets about 21 to the motor itself"

Since MRC's own pulished documents rate the Power G at 22 VDC...here's the link..MRC Power G

This FACT alone tells me that the Power G is not the best suited for this topics Author RioShay.

So let's move on tou YOUR next recommendation the switching regulated power supply the Meanwell S-320-24 which in my opinion isn't the best power supply for running trains in conventional track power mode. Why do I feel this way well maybe because of the phone conversations over the years with both USA Trains service & Phoenix sound customer service about using switching power supplies with their products..which is something they don't recommend by the way. What do they recommend?? Clean DC Power.

Not that I'm against switching power supplies as they do have a place in large scale but to me it's not operating trains in conventional track powered mode but ONLY powering a DCC equipped layout. How do I know this well because that's how my layout was powered when I used DCC. 

Have you ever seen a USA Hudson trying to operate on a track powered switching power supplied layout especially when it's just sitting with enough volts to operate the sound, lights & smoke unit?? All it'll do is flicker the lights!!

Now as far as Bridgewerks being way over priced and out of reach for anybody but the well to do let's just take a look. A 10 amp MRG Power G lists for $269.98 but can be bought at Wholesale trains for $154.99 which is rated at only 22 volts.

On the other hand a Bridgewerks 10 amp Magnum 10-SR lists for $379.99 but can be bought at Ridge Road Station for $273.59 which will deliver at least 28 volts.

So for what?? $120.00 more you get 25% more available power to the rails. Clean power that ALL trains like.

Greg, Have you ever tried powering a DCC system with a Bridgewerks or have you ever owned a Bridgewerks power supply? Do you have any FACTS such as charts, graphs ar maybe a scope shot of a Bridgewerks showing the fabled unloaded legendary voltage spikes?? Or is all your FACTS just heresay jotted down in cyberspace??

Something else about Bridgewerks & Ruby's Resturant. Ruby's has large scale trains operating and when they were powered with a switching power supply the motors were burning out in a few weeks. Since using a Bridgewerks the motors last a year!! How do I know this because I sold a Bridgewerks Power Supply to the fellow who has the contracts to keep them operating on Ebay a few years back. 

Greg, Why don't you just give the owner of Bridgewerks Dave Sauerwald a call at 800-908-9997 and discuss the lengendary voltage spike. By the way Dave is an electrical engineer and his son is Director of Engineering at National Semi Conductor out in Santa Clara.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sigh, this seems more like an attack than interest in getting to facts. 

Can we keep this on a courteous and professional basis? 
The addition of accusatory phrases like "YOUR facts", "misleading" , "Or is all your FACTS just heresay jotted down in cyberspace??" just makes me feel that this is really not worth replying to. 

Just that last point? If I dredged up all the posts about Bridgewerks overvoltage would you concede that this happened? Or are we in a situation like "our drivers on our locos never slip"? 

Just in this thread you are basically calling Noel a liar. 

I don't have to prove items that are documented everywhere, and I really do not feel like doing all the research and posting links to experiences if you are not open to a courteous, frank and factual discussion. 

I await your response to the "terms of engagement". 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. notice I state "we"?


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm.. Well I have used Bridgewerks throttles from the very beginning, including designing circuits to power LEDs and I've never had problems. This includes the testing I'm doing in the process with the LED being the only draw on the power supply. This includes just turning the power supply on and off with the voltage set. It's usually a good idea if you have LEDs to ensure they have some sort of voltage regulation to ensure they don't see more than the max recommended voltage and not just a resistor. Even with my Bachmann Annies which have the grain of wheat LED with a single resistor (1000ohms as I recall) I've never had the headlight blow and I ran for hours with just the power supply... even with me running at greater than 24volts. 

If I had to venture a guess, some damage for some folks could be caused by the user not knowing that a Bridgewerks throttle put out up to 33volts DC with the throttle all the way to the top. That was one of my very first lessons in Largescale when I was running my Bachmann annie and its lighted passenger cars. After I blew out a few passenger car lights, I then learned why the throttle arm stop was there and that I should use it. So between the built-in voltmeter (I prefer a secondary voltmeter for readings above 20volts) and the stop, you shouldn't have situations where you are damaging equipement. (not to say some situtation for someone has never occured.) I have seen an old bridgewerks that was beat to a pulp and was left outside in the weather for periods of time that had horrible voltage output ranges, but that was an issue on how it was cared for, not the product. 

The only high voltage issue I've ever seen related to a Bridgewerks product is the unregulated Mag 15 power brick, which despite what I've heard some say will consistently put out 35volts plus even under load. BUT this brick I believe was really designed to power their line of unpowered throttles so 35volts output is not a big deal cause you control it with the throttle. 

With the Bridgewerks throttles, even from loading to their max rating and then backing down to a minimal load, the voltage change is not THAT great so it shouldn't be causing damage with equipment. So, newbies reading this thread should make sure they don't walk away with an unecessarily bad impression of the bridgewerks line of power supplies because I don't think it's warranted. I personally won't use anything but a Bridgewerks. 

Seems like Dave should be invited to this discussion. I'll send him an email with this thread link and see if he would like to chime in.


Raymond


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Ray, my MAG 10 .... and DCS, what max voltage do you recommend I set my throttle to???

Merci amigo..

gg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, Bring on your facts as I'm ready. When I mean facts I don't mean second or third party heresay.
I just want the facts and not your opinion(s) 
I wonder why USA Trains doen't include a switching power supply in their starter sets? Or Piko? 
No, they include a DC Power Supply.
Have you done any testing on a Bridgewerks Power Supply?
BTW, Bridgewerks owner Dave Sauerwald is awaiting your call, this I know personally. He can be reached at 800-908-9997 and he answers the phone. He's a really great guy. He's primed and waiting to hear from you.

Here I made a small video t catch the "Urban Legend Bridgewerks Voltage Spike"
I hooked up a digitl multimeter (USA Made) to the outputs of my Bridgewerks MAG25TDR (USA Made). The Bridgewerks is light as in your findings that's where the voltage spike appears.

But where is it?? My digital multi meter shows only a volt or so, way below any damaging huge voltage spike..hmm..


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*I have not had a problem with mine either i have a tdr 25 and i ussually run at full bore at the shows and the meter never goes over 24 volts. but i did hear from somebody that they bought bridgewerks power supply only pack and hook it up to a exsternal throttle and it went to 35 volts but i dont remember witch pack he bought. i will be seeing him next week and i will ask..*


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

As a result of a complaint - action taken by from Peter Bunce - moderator 

Language that has been used in this posting is just NOT acceptable - it is NOT and does not need to be used at all -- please stop using it or the topic and poster will have to be locked. xxxxxxxxxxx

Offending words have been deleted



Damm guys

Come on here.... 


*WAKE UP and smell the roses LAD's . 
*


the personality issues, the differences, unless they are taken in good lite. 

This is but a hobby, *not the future of the world*. 


* do I need to migrate to a different site to get a civil conversation????????????? *

Don't like this comment?

*Let me know, this will not cost me anything to butt out listening to this inner "bitch" circle. I have indeed noticed the bias and negative comments and quite frankly and tired of the bull *

Simply stated, everyone here is good. Let the hormones rest. If you want to flare up and tell me to.... 


Your decision. Do it and yes my point is proven. Mr Paraguay was correct and yes maybe I need a new venue to this hobby. 


gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 06/08/2009 6:15 PM
Damm guys

Come on here.... 


*WAKE UP and smell the roses LAD's . 
*


the personality issues, the differences, unless they are taken in good lite. 

This is but a hobby, *not the future of the world*. 


*do I need to migrate to a different site to get a civil conversation????????????? *

Don't like this comment?

*Let me know, this will not cost me anything to butt out listening to this inner "bitch" circle. I have indeed noticed the bias and negative comments and quite frankly and tired of the bull ****. 
*

Simply stated, everyone here is good. Let the hormones rest. If you want to flare up and tell me to.... 


Your decision. Do it and yes my point is proven. Mr Paraguay was correct and yes maybe I need a new venue to this hobby. 


gg 






What What What did i say ????????????????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The responses:
[*] When I mean facts I don't mean second or third party heresay. [/list] [*]I just want the facts and not your opinion(s) [/list] (Please note the last statement)

"I wonder why USA Trains doen't include a switching power supply in their starter sets? Or Piko?"
No, they include a DC Power Supply. 

This is clearly leading to an opinion, not facts. You present your opinion of what the reason is.


OK, so the response seems confrontive, and accusatory, and hostile.

You state you don't want *my *opinions, but you state *yours*.


I believe this is not going to work, I asked for a courteous exchange, and the reply is not looking good.

Anyone who might have additional questions feel free to email me privately. This is my last post on this thread.


Regards, Greg 


p.s. You cannot measure short transients or voltage spikes with the setup shown. The response time of the meter is controlled by the sampling rate and internal averaging. 
(here is a $375 Fluke voltmeter spec, the response time is measured in SECONDS, not milliseconds, nor microseconds, all it takes to kill a solid state device http://recycledequipment.com/index.cfm/product/2355/fluke-8922a-true-rms-voltmeter.cfm , even the response time of the LCD display is probably in the hundreds of milliseconds)

Any electronic engineer will tell you that you need a 'scope with a storage function to see these kind of things.


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/08/2009 2:16 PM
Sigh, this seems more like an attack than interest in getting to facts. 

Can we keep this on a courteous and professional basis? 
The addition of accusatory phrases like "YOUR facts", "misleading" , "Or is all your FACTS just heresay jotted down in cyberspace??" just makes me feel that this is really not worth replying to. 

Just that last point? If I dredged up all the posts about Bridgewerks overvoltage would you concede that this happened? Or are we in a situation like "our drivers on our locos never slip"? 

Just in this thread you are basically calling Noel a liar. 

I don't have to prove items that are documented everywhere, and I really do not feel like doing all the research and posting links to experiences if you are not open to a courteous, frank and factual discussion. 

I await your response to the "terms of engagement". 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. notice I state "we"? 



Greg.. There not going to listen to any experence one has and really don't care what Bridgewerks does. 
It's a fine product for what it is used for.. But, Let one try some of difference power supply.... but not regulated.. 

With no load to reference to it going to be a non- fixed wild voltage to most LED's that are just using a Resistor only.( Like 1000 ohm's or under.) Try testing them on a Scope and watch the curve. 

"We live in the boon docks and our House voltage goes up and down here to so it makes a differnce to the non- reg. power supply also.. 
we have seen some transformers on the seconday voltage side put out as much as 9 volts Plus or Minus here. So all depends where you live to."

We then put a load on it so the power supply has a reference point to work with. This is from the old day of being a Lic.Ham . Trial and error, then find out why. 

This is why we post to help others...


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