# Aristo tech support



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

While I was doing the c-16/bug mauler bash (see the model making forum) the polarity marks came off the wiring for the connector plug on the tender. Only 2 pin, not a big deal, it's either right, or a dead short. Still I thought I'd query Aristo tech support, since none of their online drawings show it. Simple question, simple answer, right?


WRONG! A fellow named Navin responded (after 3 or so days) to tell me that I HAVE to send the tender AND loco in "for repairs" instead. to quote the kiddies "Like WTF?". I sent him a polite response outlining why this was not an acceptable solution, and...... no reply.




Is this their usual way of dealing with customer questions? Why bother even HAVING tech support if it is. Wanting someone to pay a bunch of freight and risking damage to a one off custom piece (and maybe having them send you a "stock replacement" in return) for a 2 minute soldering job is beyond stupid, it's arrogant.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm surprised you even got a response. I left them a message about a smoke unit issue and never got a call back. I've contacted LGB, Accucraft, Bachmann and Aristo about issues in the past. Aristo is the worst experience I've had by far. Accucraft was excellent, LGB was very good, Bachmann was good, Aristo was horrible.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristo tech support is a bit of an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned. I suspect they can't talk you through a repair when it comes to wiring because there is a history of inconsistent wiring colours. I had a dealer who has had lots of Aristo's apart tell me it is not unusual to see locos with all pink or all orange wiring--if they run out of one colour, they finish with whatever they've got onhand. Nice. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Navin is the nicest guy there, and works hard. He must also follow company policy. 

There is very little documentation on Aristo wiring, and as Keith points out, the wiring is the "color of the week" club. 

Their best shot at making you happy, with the above limitations, is to send the loco back. 

Electrical problems are not their strong suit, but be nice to Navin, he's a gem in terms of taking care of you. 

(I would have likewise been disappointed in the response, do not get me wrong). 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I think Greg nals it on this


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

First of all, Mik, let me say that if I had a response like you did from Navin I would feel EXACTLY the same way you feel! It does surprise me though, as I have had phenomenal good fortune with all of my service conversations with Aristo. In my personal experience, they have demonstrated some of the best customer service I have ever experienced. I am sorry you had such a bad experience, and as I said before, I don't blame you feeling the way you do at all! 
Ed


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

My father contacted them once on an Aristo TE question, and he realized into the call, whomever he was speaking to knew less about it than he did.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

As long as you don't ask them anything about electricity, they seem to do just fine . . . .


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't get any of the live steam people started!!! 

Greg


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I determined the correct answer myself, 30 seconds with an ohm meter and 2 minutes to solder the wires. If there was no consistency on wiring the plug, that's ALL he had to say. This will probably cost them any future purchases from me simply because I couldn't get a straight answer.... I guess maybe they have more than they need?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't want to comment further. I like Navin. He's the only one who has ever helped me. Come on chat.... 

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The only thing I can think is that they have to assume that their customer base does not understand positive/negative and what an ohm meter is? They are selling to a range from noobs to master model railroaders afterall.....


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

*As Greg said, Navin is the nicest guy you ever want to meet and would go way out of his way to help anyone. The guy probably gets 50 calls a day plus who know how many e-mails. He tries to satify everyones questions. Now this mite seem to be a stupid question, but if you are smart enough to figure it out yourself in 30 seconds, didn't take longer to contact Navin about it, than just fixing it ?*


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 01/16/2009 9:43 PM 
As Greg said, Navin is the nicest guy you ever want to meet and would go way out of his way to help anyone. The guy probably gets 50 calls a day plus who know how many e-mails. He tries to satify everyones questions. Now this mite seem to be a stupid question, but if you are smart enough to figure it out yourself in 30 seconds, didn't take longer to contact Navin about it, than just fixing it ?



I simply figured I would ask first. Why? BECAUSE IT WASN'T SHOWN ON ANY OF THEIR PUBLISHED PAGES... A basic wiring diagram isn't super secret proprietary information, it's one of several things that should be available to people who own these units. If I can get one for a Farmall H, or a '56 Chevy, or an AM transistor radio, or even an AC Lionel, then why not from Aristocraft? 

Yes, this one was easy, only two wires, but what if it had been like one of B'mann's infamous super sockets? "send it in for repairs" does NOT answer the question asked. And THAT my friend is the problem (not even answering the follow up email was a bit of an insult as well). Several people have mentioned to me that Aristo often doesn't follow their OWN diagrams... this means that they EXIST, so why not publish them instead of assuming your customers are too stupid to understand them? Perhaps afraid they'll know more than the tech people? If it is insurance related BS then why not say that either? Answering a simple question is customer service 101.

It's been pointed out that Navin can't come out and say any of the above without risking his job, fine. Then that's just one more reason not to buy from them.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

The Aristo factory seems to relegate assembly practices to a lost art status when certain products have long time spans between production runs. 

An example is the inconsistent wiring hookups (not just the colors used) that I noticed on the Heavyweight passenger cars trucks. 
Since the Aristo factory has been moved, this will likely result in more upheaval, and I suspect the practice will not get any better for a long time to come. 










I wrote about it over a year ago with the wiring described more toward the end of the topic: 
"Aristo HW Pass. 3 axle trucks" 
Greg has hosted this for me on his web site at the below link: 
http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/ted-doskaris-vignettes-mainmenu-157/aristo-hw-pass-3-axle-trucks-mainmenu-174 

-Ted


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

On the couple of occasions that I have telephone Navin from the UK his advice and help has been commendable. I have five Aristo locos and nearly thirty items of their rolling stock. I have have not had any issues with any of it but then I don't take any of it apart - I just run it.


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## Dave H (Jan 5, 2008)

Like I said on another post.

TOO BAD ARISTO DIDN'T HIRE JACK (buckso), looks like they could use him, on their TEAM.


I hope he can help Bachmann, that guy ELMER in the service department is an IDIOT.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Gentlmen I understand Niven's plot in life I feel for him. 

Not everyone can do phone service. Out of 19 service guys west of the rockies only 4 can do phone service. I am the only one in the United states that can do both electrical and Mechinical.

Some people just dont know how to explain things on the phone. It takes a lot of pacients with customers. 


I have been fixing printing presses since 1985

There are times when you just have to say GET SOME THERE TO FIX IT It can't be done over the phone. ( Some of it has to do with changes between serial numbers. Due mods I cant tell what to do. Much like the wire color Some has to do with independants who have been in the wire harness and moved wires around.)


There are some who think I walk on water. They think they can call me put thier cell phone on the press and I say HEAL and the press will run. 

Then there are those who think I COULD NOT POUR PEE OUT OF A COWBOY BOOT IF THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE ON THE HEEL. They think my sister was a only child. 

I have seen my picture on walls with votive candles and fresh flowers every day. Then I have also seen it on the DART BOARD in the lunch room.

There is no happy medium


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 01/17/2009 4:55 AM
Gentlmen I understand Niven's plot in life I feel for him. 

Not everyone can do phone service. Out of 19 service guys west of the rockies only 4 can do phone service. I am the only one in the United states that can do both electrical and Mechinical.

Some people just dont know how to explain things on the phone. It takes a lot of pacients with customers. 


I have been fixing printing presses since 1985

There are times when you just have to say GET SOME THERE TO FIX IT It can't be done over the phone. ( Some of it has to do with changes between serial numbers. Due mods I cant tell what to do. Much like the wire color Some has to do with independants who have been in the wire harness and moved wires around.)


There are some who think I walk on water. They think they can call me put thier cell phone on the press and I say HEAL and the press will run. 

Then there are those who think I COULD NOT POUR PEE OUT OF A COWBOY BOOT IF THE INSTRUCTIONS WERE ON THE HEEL. They think my sister was a only child. 

I have seen my picture on walls with votive candles and fresh flowers every day. Then I have also seen it on the DART BOARD in the lunch room.

There is no happy medium 




Ain't troubleshooting over the phone a wonderful experience, with an emphasis on the "wonder" part... I wonder how the customer found the phone to call me, I wonder how he was able to dial it, I wonder how come he is still employed... Lots of "wonder" involved.

By the way... there is such a thing as a happy medium!!!

A happy medium is one that got paid BEFORE the seance started.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

guys, the original problem was TWO wires. I explained WHATI was doing, WHAT the problem was, and WHY I wanted to know. In the second email (to which I never received a response), I explained WHY sending it back wasn't an option. If Lewis Polk has a problem admitting there is sometimes a problem with factory installed wiring, What do you really think the response would be when they recieved a gutted BACHMANN tender riding on ARISTO trucks? 

As to whether YOU can pour pee out of a boot, I can't answer that, BUT when you have trouble understanding the problem, perhaps rereading the question is a good first step.


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

I do not have lot of Aristo engines or rolling stock, yet. When I have had a problem with them which has been few Navin, George, or John M. has beem able to help me out. At an ECLSTS a few years ago Navin helped me out with an issue at the Aristo booth. Problem solved. As for wiring issues LGB has/had a similar problem on the wiring side. I had to fix an LGB Mogul where the connector on the single color multi wire cable that goes from the loco to the tender was pulled off by the owner. The online schematics weren't much help. I guessed which wire was number 1 in the cable and put the connector on. Luckily I guessed right. I wouldn't be surprised if other manufacturers have it in one way or the other. As for asking for it to be sent in I can understand why he might have wanted that done. 
LAO


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 01/16/2009 7:14 PM
I determined the correct answer myself, 30 seconds with an ohm meter and 2 minutes to solder the wires. If there was no consistency on wiring the plug, that's ALL he had to say. This will probably cost them any future purchases from me simply because I couldn't get a straight answer.... I guess maybe they have more than they need?

Straight answer? he just did not give you the answer you wanted to hear. You said it the answer was eaiser to find out by you just taking a minute and finding it. I think its great that you now have showed others how to find the answer.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 01/18/2009 12:15 PM
Straight answer? he just did not give you the answer you wanted to hear.





Am I alone thinking that the answer to asking someone to check a wiring diagram is NOT "pack it up, pay $15 to ship it each way, $XX for a service fee" AND run the risk of the shipping company losing or destroying it TWICE?

US companies WANT us to embrace mediocrity of quality AND service....it's cheaper for them. Places like Wally Wurld depend upon it. 


Nevermind, I'm done.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Documentation has never been the strong suit at Aristo or USAT. (But wiring problems are very rare with USAT) Bachmann provides them. 

It sometimes takes years to even get an exploded parts diagram from Aristo, and there STILL are not ones for several current products. 

Now, a schematic? ha ha ha... the only schematics out there are from people who have painstakingly reverse engineered the schematic from the actual products and their brainpower, like Bob Grosh and George Schreyer. 

That's probably the main reason you could not get an answer. Asking to have a service department check a schematic is a reasonable question. Wanting the manufacturer to confirm what you may be able to figure out is a smart idea. 

What if Allen was not able to figure it out himself? Does that automatically make it a more reasonable thing to ask? 

I realize he was able to sort it out himself, but there's a bigger picture here. Having a loco in production for years without documentation is pretty silly. (that is a VERY kind word too) 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

And they say there is no brotherly love any more!!!!!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't get any of the live steam people started!!! 
Moi????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The parts availability for Aristo LS has been a sore point since they came out. Since they come from a different factory, parts get ordered a lot less often. Some people waited 2 years for a replacement butane tank. 

Someone is waiting now for his boiler to be repaired, two months and counting.. 

I hope you aren't in that situation Dwight! 

Regards, Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 01/18/2009 7:44 PM
Don't get any of the live steam people started!!! 
Moi????










What's this about Live Steam?????


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

hoo boy! here we go! 

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Good Loard now they got the Steam Freaks involved. This thread is going to read like War and Peace.


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

I wish they would make something that ran on methane . 
LAO


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope you aren't in that situation Dwight!
Not me. First off, I'm a Narrow Gauge guy first, last, and always. Second, I don't do Aristo.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ya I could write a book on the answers I got back from AC on my LS. Yep and still no parts diagram either. Later RJD


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Nor any spare parts for the live steam.....after two runs of them.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

YEA, Larry has a lot of,,"gas"..


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

And then there is Marty trying to rid him self of a LS. Wonder why. No patience I guess. Later RJD


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not sure why all the Bashing of Aristocraft on here, and it seems constant...

I run LGB, ARISTO, USA, BACHMAN... I have had problems with all of them at one time or another...

So much so with Bachmann I don't run them anymore... I only have a few passenger cars left...

My LGB with its propensity to grind off gears collects dust...

Most problems I fix myself, because I don't want the hassle of shipping stuff back and forth and risking damage...

On the one ocassions I had to ship and RS3 back to Aristo for repair, it was back and working in under 5 days...
On the occasions I have called, I had all my answers quick... when I have ordered parts from them likewise...

On the occasions I had to call USA for Parts/Help... I have had all my answers right away also...
When I ordered parts from them, same...

Aristo has most if not all of there manuals and Parts diagrams online, along wth tech stuff and the forum...

USA has almost nothing... no tech stuff, no manuals... almost no diagrams... I bought an NW2 (granted it was 2nd hand) wth no manual...
is it online on their webpage... NO... Do they have a forum... NO... do they have a FAQ, or Tech section... NO... (I had to come here for help)
They do well over the phone, but we don't all have time to call during business hours...
And where are the USA Wiring Diagrams? I've never seen one...

Yet you guys sing their praises as if they were the gods of g gauge...

I had a GP7 with no ligts when I got it NEW in the Box... it was a pinched wire... I didn't bitch or moan, I fixed it...
Why does USA have different versions of their electronics for lights in each engine... none of mine are the same...
why do my GP7 and GP38 lights work on my layout, but my NW2 does not...
why do they have red lights on the back of locos and green on front?... do real ones have that...
Don't get me started on the split gear issue... undersized wheels, traction tires etc...

To be honest I really don't care about all of this at all... but I think we need tbe FAIR here...
we can pick on any company we want to if we try... and usually people with bad experiences speak up...
those with good experiences are too happy running trains to take time to talk....

Call FORD and Ask them how to repair your car and see what answer you get...

my 2 cents

Philip


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

That's a reasonable point--aristo makes an effort no one else makes. Where's USAT's live steamer? And they offer stuff on their website no one else offers--it's not always perfect, and I've certainly had my troubles with aristo, but thy are making a bigger effort than anyone else. 


I've also had problem with all the major manufacturers, and when I got a brand new USAT diesel with cracked gears on the axles, the response from tech support was.... "send it back." I did, they fixed it. I was very mad t the time, and very crriticl of USAT's quality control. Should I knock USAT's tech support as well?


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Phillip - stop reading my mind!! I have had a similar experience with equipment from the various manufacturers and the respective service departments. All have responded to emails, eventually. LGB and aristo were the best, with USA and bachmann responding maybe months later. I don't think I ever got a reply from MTH but that was so long ago, I don't care anymore. Certainly, email is about the worst way to getting things solved. I am glad I read this thread. I just realized why my LGB mikado was having a short last night. The cable from engine to tender had pulled out of its plug and I need to repair that. Duh! Two wires must have been touching!


Also, wiring diagrams are not always accurate, even for existing product runs. Experience in starting up OEM equipment, sometimes exact duplicates, wired up by a USA electrician, showed that wiring mistakes do happen. This caused a lot of downstream problems, that were not immediately evident. It could be that the wiring of the C-16 was not done exactly to the diagrams, (field mods do not always show up on the engineering versions, even though they should) and so it is better for the tech to review with the part in hand. I cannot imagine that aristo would charge you shipping both ways, they have never done that to me. And they never charged me for repairs made under warranty. 


Larry - OMG, if we could make a locomotive to run on methane, and be able to capture 'natural' methane, think what we could do after we finish running a tea kettle! Is that Speedo too tight again after the holidays?!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well after a 1 1/2 years we still do not have the correct coupler for the E 8 and still no parts for a 3 year old live steamer. Now that's really trying hard to make a difference. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

yes and six months ago I bought a brand new USAT diesel with cracked axles-that's been a problem for what--five years? Ten years?



Meanwhile RJ you complained (rightly) about the switch frogs and they have now offered replacement wide-radius switch frogs which work extremley well and solve all the problems I had with the old frogs.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

We i guess when a few folk kiss aristos butt's everthing is gold rite,,, WRONG whens the last time you heard any complants on this board about USA products its rare... search these forums and you will see...when the last time you heard that a aristo product has a problem ? just about every day.. some one bought a 44 tonner and it had a crack gear witch was a old problem and it was repaired free of charge!!!! new 44 tonners along with all new USA locos are equipted with the new axles and gears that dont split. so at least when usa trains finds a problem they fix it on the next run unlike Aristo that doesnt fix any of there problems from run to run, just keep on puttin out the same old crap...lets talk about aristo live steamers i bet if you ask here you will find they are flawed as well.. and still after 2 runs have not made repair parts foor defective locos. so at the end of the day USA trains has far less if any problems than the aristocrappers prove me wrong... you cant and you know it.
I could make a list of defective aristo products as long as this page, but cant do the same with USA because they care about what they sell and dont bring products to market unless there rite out of the box... cant say that about aristo..... well i guess the butt kissers can but it woudnt be the truth... the short list of falts from your beloved company..faulty wiring, defective switchs, switchs mouted wrong in locos, tenders wired wrong, wheels falling off locos , wheels coming unquartered, motor blocks siezing up, wires falling off motors in motor blocks cause there soderd wrong,cracked floors cracked tires on roadrailers,wrong couplers mounted on locos, faulty smoke units, having to drill holes in the under side of new locos to make smoke units work, and the problems are on and on and on, and most of the time they cant fix them rite... and they come back worse then when they went there!!!! good thing there are people on this forum that have a clue how to repair them cause aristo dont in most cases, and all you need to do is read these forums to prove it.. so no sympothy for aristo here.. QC sucks period.................


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, the USAT cracked axle problem is still a problem. Now find another COMMON problem with USAT. 

I can give you a list of COMMON problems a mile long with Aristo, do you have roadrailers with tires? Do you have a live steamer? 

How about a parts diagram for the Pacific, how many years has that been out? Or the live steamer. 

Every steamer has problems with the attachment of the wheels and slipping drivers. They WILL eventually loosen. 

I don't want to bash Aristo, just tell the truth. I can support these statements with facts and posts on the Aristo forum. 

So... 

I thought this thread was on customer service, now it's drifted to who is bashing who, and onto product quality. 

I think that customer service at Aristo revolves around Navin, and he does his level best. Parts availability is a severe problem, and parts are not always ordered with the first production run. 

If you want to dispute the statement above, I suggest you read the Aristo forum, it's all documented there, quotes right from Lewis himself. 

If you have trouble, I'll give you the links to the specific posts. 

I really think this thread has run it's course, and the subject of quality is really another topic to me... 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 01/21/2009 11:40 AM
yes and six months ago I bought a brand new USAT diesel with cracked axles-that's been a problem for what--five years? Ten years?



Meanwhile RJ you complained (rightly) about the switch frogs and they have now offered replacement wide-radius switch frogs which work extremley well and solve all the problems I had with the old frogs.





Also you should know when this problem was found USA sent dealers replacement wheels for all defective ones found and some dealers elected not to fix them and sell the wheel instead of replacing them. so USA stopped sending them replcement wheels... so please get your info correct before you post MIke, it would be helpful if you had your facts correct.. by the way how are you aristo steamers doning ,,didnt you post another problem not to long ago... no suprise... And took Aristo what 8 YEARS TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM with the frogs...now theres customer service at it finest..

OOOOOOOOOO and when you get to own more that a couple of engines you'll understand why we get pissed all the time.. if they cant make a product that works out of the box dont make it.. also when they get caught saying one thing one day and another the next doesnt look good..thats my opionion..


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

I can only speak of my personal experiences...

I like Aristo... I run indoors, I have a small layout 12x24 or so... 6.5' curves... track power (for now, hope to go dcc or remote)

I can only speak on what I have and run... RS3s, FAs, Critters, GP40, an Older Pacific... all run great...

As for USA I have the GP7/9, GP38, and NW2... all are great also.. 'cept the damn lights on the NW2 (why don't they upgrade to the other system thats in the other locos - My personal gripe - damn PWC - that's another story - and my problem)

I have a some LGB 0-4-0s I hardly run but around the christmas tree, and a 2-4-0 I use occasionaly... they run great... I don't care for the looks...

I used to have a bunch of Bachmann 4-6-0s - all different drive trains, all ran like crap... All sold off... I don't like them, I don't buy them, I don't run them... my personal oppinion... I think they look nice though... and from what I hear the new ones run great...

The road railers tires and trailers as I understand were made for aristo by someone else who went out of business... might take a while to fix that...

I only have 4' switches on my layout... they work fine for me... I have had to tweak them to use the USA locos as the steps are quite low... but no big deal...

Its a hobby... we build, we repair, we run... we tweak, we run again... that's half the fun...

I was not aware of the parts issue on the Aristo LS... I don't run LS... you would think at the least they would have a few extras to take repair parts off of...

I think we are all better in this hobby by the fact all of the manufacturers exist...USA, ARISTO, BACMANN, LGB, MTH and all the rest...

but 1/29th scale is the best...

Philip


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lathroum on 01/21/2009 12:27 PM
I can only speak of my personal experiences...

I like Aristo... I run indoors, I have a small layout 12x24 or so... 6.5' curves... track power (for now, hope to go dcc or remote)

I can only speak on what I have and run... RS3s, FAs, Critters, GP40, an Older Pacific... all run great...

As for USA I have the GP7/9, GP38, and NW2... all are great also.. 'cept the damn lights on the NW2 (why don't they upgrade to the other system thats in the other locos - My personal gripe - damn PWC - that's another story - and my problem)

I have a some LGB 0-4-0s I hardly run but around the christmas tree, and a 2-4-0 I use occasionaly... they run great... I don't care for the looks...

I used to have a bunch of Bachmann 4-6-0s - all different drive trains, all ran like crap... All sold off... I don't like them, I don't buy them, I don't run them... my personal oppinion... I think they look nice though... and from what I hear the new ones run great...

The road railers tires and trailers as I understand were made for aristo by someone else who went out of business... might take a while to fix that...

I only have 4' switches on my layout... they work fine for me... I have had to tweak them to use the USA locos as the steps are quite low... but no big deal...

Its a hobby... we build, we repair, we run... we tweak, we run again... that's half the fun...

I was not aware of the parts issue on the Aristo LS... I don't run LS... you would think at the least they would have a few extras to take repair parts off of...

I think we are all better in this hobby by the fact all of the manufacturers exist...USA, ARISTO, BACMANN, LGB, MTH and all the rest...

but 1/29th scale is the best...

Philip


You are correct when saying we are better off with all of them in the hobbie ,but if we dont complain they wont fix there problems and thats why we keep complaining cause sooner or later there going to get tired of hearing they have poor products and poor service and do something about it... if not they will go bye bye...


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I love watching Nick get wound up on this, the spluttering, the lack of punctuation, the wierd brand loyalty to a toy train









I'm the first to admit Aristo has quality control problems--I've complained about it many times. I'm the first to admit their documentation isn't always accurate. I've even had both good and bad experiences with tech support. My tech support experience with USAT was exactly the same as the original poster's with aristo. I still don't understand the problem in the original post, or why Aristo is the only company that gets dumped on for this kind of thing. 


My only experience with USAT has been a loco that arrived defective. Since it's been fixed it runs well. I might get a GP-30 in Reading livery when they come out; I surely get a center cupola caboose when they come out. It's not like you are required to use only one manufacturer... 

PS I have three aristo engines, one USAT, two Bachmann's and three LGBs


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 01/21/2009 12:55 PM
I love watching Nick get wound up on this, the spluttering, the lack of punctuation, the wierd brand loyalty to a toy train









I'm the first to admit Aristo has quality control problems--I've complained about it many times. I'm the first to admit their documentation isn't always accurate. I've even had both good and bad experiences with tech support. My tech support experience with USAT was exactly the same as the original poster's with aristo. I still don't understand the problem in the original post, or why Aristo is the only company that gets dumped on for this kind of thing. 


My only experience with USAT has been a loco that arrived defective. Since it's been fixed it runs well. I might get a GP-30 in Reading livery when they come out; I surely get a center cupola caboose when they come out. It's not like you are required to use only one manufacturer... 

PS I have three aristo engines, one USAT, two Bachmann's and three LGBs













> or why Aristo is the only company that gets dumped on for this kind of thing.... BECAUSE THEIR THE ONES WITH MOST OF THE DEFECTS..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey... if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger...

Little sips of the kool aid until your body builds up a tolerance...

I love USA and ARISTO... there I said it... so what... Who's with me?

That center Cupola Caboose does look yummy (in Western Maryland of course)


Philip


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm with you Philip. 

And I'm happy that Aristo is fixing stuff like the frogs, and updating the firmware on the new TE. (I do communicate privately with Lewis, believe it or not). 

I'm happy there is stuff out there for us to buy, Aristo or USAT alone would not be enough. 

A side note, I have about 20 USAT diesels, other than the cracked axles on the older ones (old version) they have been very trouble free. Your experience with the lights is one of the things I have mentioned on my site, they never seem to do the lighting the same twice in a row. Oh well, a small cross to bear. 

Regards, Greg


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

I have never had problems, but once with Aristo engines, I have 16 of different ones and they run once a week in the 
winter for an hour are more. In the summer they have been running all day every day and are still going strong. I have one 
USA with most of the parts missing and will not run now worth a hoot. The one problem I had with the FAs Naven got it 
fix up in 2 weeks, there and back. So I will stich with Aristo engines and controls they have served me well the 12 years 
I have been in Large Scale. 

Ken owner of K&K the road to nowhere


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike. 
With respect. 
If you are going to criticise Nick S for his bad spelling, lack of punctuation, bad grammar and no paragraphs etc. You might try spelling "weird" correctly. 

Yes, I know all about "I" before "E" except after "C". There are plenty of exceptions. 

Weird is one of the them. As is "weight"


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)




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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick. 
Go back and read it again. 
I was defending you. 
Not attacking you.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

See Tony, no good deed goes unpunished


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Not everyone is a writer and speller. I learned to read between the lines. I'm not the best either but do you think I care. doubt it. yep there is spell check but does not always mean folks will get it right. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/21/2009 2:59 PM
Nick. 
Go back and read it again. 
I was defending you. 
Not attacking you.





Sounded like you were making fun of my writing skills!!!!! i removed my post, besides everybody cant write as pretty as Mikie..........


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't spell right all the time either. It's a busman's holiday for me. But when Nick gets worked up about Aristo, it's not spelling I was talking about, see the post: punctuation goes out the window...all the sentences start to look like this it's a terrible company...and they are no good I can afford the best you drank the koolaid." 

etc. etc. 


The whole thing seems WIERD to me, to invest so much apparent emotion in the subject and to keep forming people into teams about it. As I said, I'm happy to admit the faults with Aristo and its products, I'm just not going to pretend this is some kind of cold war binary. Passion is good, I suppose. But then this whole thing is just for fun anyway.


Nick, all the best to you. maybe someday I can get to see some of your collection in action


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I thought we wern't grading on spelling.







I thought only neatness counted to your final grade. 

But since Shad added spell check maybe the rules changed. 

I can spell but my fingers can't


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

OK JJ. I'll bite. 

Can you steer me to where I can find out how to spell check my replies please?


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Nearly all my G stuff is Aristo (300 + items). The few exceptions are several AML box cars that I like very much and two USAT container / well cars.

Many years ago I chose Aristo with the one big reason they were the only ones at the time that had a Forum (that I no longer participate in) and I actually got a response to questions via email. 


The day before yesterday, I sent an email to USAT (with a question about their SD70MAC that I am interested in getting). The email address I used is shown in their web site. I have not yet received a reply. 
Maybe they will be just like they were 10 years ago - though I will give it a few more days before passing final judgement.



-Ted


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Wee halve spilling and grandma checkers; they came with are Pea Sea.
They plainly mark fore hour revues, Miss Steaks wee dew Knot Sea.
This massage was scent threw it, and ewe should bee pleas two no,
It's letter prefect in its weigh; the checkers tolled mea sew.

I don't know of any spell checker built-in to the MLS interface. I have IE-SPELL which is an add-on tool to IE-7 that will check spelling on the displayed page or just a set of highlighted text.... I believe FireFox has a spell checker built-in to it that spell checks on-the-fly (underlines words that are not in its dictionary).


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I got an updated email address for USAT, it seems they just obsoleted the [email protected] .... use [email protected] or [email protected] ... 

I was talking to Mike in parts, and when I told him I was having problems emailing, he got someone knowledgeable on the phone in 15 seconds, and in 20 seconds I had the answer. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Can you steer me to where I can find out how to spell check my replies please? 
The spell checker is a 1st Class icon Tony, like the image insertion buttons, etc. However, Google Toolbar has a spell checker that works on MLS and just about every other web site. That's what I use, and have used for years - long before MLS added one. Google Toolbar is free, has other nifty little tools as well, and can be downloaded from Google's web site.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dwight.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/21/2009 10:23 PM
I got an updated email address for USAT, it seems they just obsoleted the [email protected] .... use [email protected] or [email protected] ... 

I was talking to Mike in parts, and when I told him I was having problems emailing, he got someone knowledgeable on the phone in 15 seconds, and in 20 seconds I had the answer. 

Regards, Greg


Greg,

Did you also have problems emailing USAT? 


I sent the email using [email protected] with no response. I have now forward my email via the other address you have shown.

Thanks, 


-Ted


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/21/2009 11:09 PM
Thanks Dwight.


Wee halve spilling and grandma checkers; they came with are Pea Sea.
They plainly mark fore hour revues, Miss Steaks wee dew Knot Sea.
This massage was scent threw it, and ewe should bee pleas two no,
It's letter prefect in its weigh; the checkers tolled mea sew.

DAING! Aye dint merembur that thar "ABC-checkmark" eyecon was a durn spiel chucker!


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

I used the [email protected] and got an answer right after Christmas, and a week ago...

They took a few days, but eventally got back to me... of course the message just said...

Please Call us at....


Philip


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I just pick up the phone and call. Wast of time e-mailing and waiting on answers. Later RJD


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/21/2009 8:30 PM
OK JJ. I'll bite. 

Can you steer me to where I can find out how to spell check my replies please? 







Tony,
You get one built in if you use Mozilla Firefox - it underlines misspelled words as you type. You can right click to get a list of suggestions for spelling. And, it works on every web site you go to.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep that's what I use and works great and it's free. Man I like free stuff. Later RJD


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## Robert Fasnacht (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Santafe 2343 on 01/16/2009 9:43 PM
*As Greg said, Navin is the nicest guy you ever want to meet and would go way out of his way to help anyone. The guy probably gets 50 calls a day plus who know how many e-mails. He tries to satify everyones questions. Now this mite seem to be a stupid question, but if you are smart enough to figure it out yourself in 30 seconds, didn't take longer to contact Navin about it, than just fixing it ?* 


*Mr. Zimmerman states, "Now this mite (sic) seem to be a stupid question...". By what right do you have to belittle a forum member who asks the maker a sensible question. I might just as well have been inclined to ask first myself. After all, Artisto-Craft often falsely touts its repair department as the best in the business so why not ask? The fact the item got put back together because of customer frustration is hardly a solid endorsement for Navin's abilities or concerns.*

*What is often apparent is that contributors to this forum and the strictly controlled vBulletin often fail to recognize these are two entirely separate methods of communication and base their responses more on what will keep them from being banned by Aristo-Craft than actually helping a member of this forum without belittlement. Unless Uncle Lewis reads this form, he is now totally ignorant that he may well have lost a future customer and that one of his employees may have acted inimically to the best interests of the company.*

*Bob*


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/21/2009 8:30 PM
{snip...}[/i] Can you steer me to where I can find out how to spell check my replies please? 
Then there's the ieSpell[/b] browser plug-in too.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Lewis and/or his people read this forum, I can heartily attest to this. 

After my leaving the Aristo forum, virtually every "negative" comment I made about Aristo, was matched the next morning by a post by Lewis on the Aristo forum. 

Now, not everyone may be as "watched" as me, but you can be sure they read this forum. George Adams is on this forum more often. 

I can "pair up" my posts with about 4-6 posts in "rebuttal" on the Aristo forum, as well as posts attacking me or Nick S. there, now that I cannot counter them. 

So I agree with your assessment in your post with the correction that I'm sure he "reads" this forum, if by proxy. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 01/22/2009 8:38 PM
Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/21/2009 8:30 PM
{snip...}[/i] Can you steer me to where I can find out how to spell check my replies please? 
Then there's the ieSpell[/b] browser plug-in too. 



Thank you Steve.

Problem is I am not quite sure what I should do.
The head of the page says IE Spell
But, then the are 5 download options which refer to "mirrors"
Unfortunately I don't know what "mirror" means and am not sure which one I should use.

I run XP Pro and IE7.

Can you offer me any further help please.?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/23/2009 5:07 AM
Posted By SteveC on 01/22/2009 8:38 PM
Posted By TonyWalsham on 01/21/2009 8:30 PM
{snip...}[/i] Can you steer me to where I can find out how to spell check my replies please? 
Then there's the ieSpell[/b] browser plug-in too. 



Thank you Steve.

Problem is I am not quite sure what I should do.
The head of the page says IE Spell
But, then the are 5 download options which refer to "mirrors"
Unfortunately I don't know what "mirror" means and am not sure which one I should use.

I run XP Pro and IE7.

Can you offer me any further help please.?

Tony

The term 'mirror site' refers to another server where you can download the exact same thing as you would from the parent site. The reason that you encounter this is that any server's capacity to serve a great many requests can bring that one particular server to a halt. Another advantage is maybe one of the mirror sites may be located right in the same city you're located in or at least in the same country, thus making the download take less time.

For example even Microsoft, just recently had to extend the time frame they had originally alotted for down loading the new beta version of Windows7, because all of their servers had come to a crawl under the massive load from customers attempting to download a copy.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok Thanks. 

Thank you for that explanation. 
I really had no idea what a mirror was. 
Just that, on the (very) few occasions I have had to download anything, the download link has always had the subject matter identifiable in the link that was to be clicked to actually start the download. 
I saw nothing actually referring to IE Spell in any of the 5 links. 
So, I take it I can actually click on one of the links to download IE Spell?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes sir, you've got it.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Success. 

Thank you Steve.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 01/22/2009 6:49 AM
I just pick up the phone and call. Wast of time e-mailing and waiting on answers. Later RJD


Waste of time? So instead you should just pick up the phone, dial the thing, get the stupid automated service, nothing fits, so press 01010101 get disconnected, call back, get computer again, yell "live body" at it about 800 times, get transferred to "someone who can help you"-- who doesn't answer the phone, listen to muzak or about 2 weeks, then get somebody with a Pakistani accent so heavy that you can cut it with a knife, get noplace with them for another ten days because you can 't even understand each other, get disconnected, call back get busy signal, call 4th time, go through all the above steps AGAIN, get sore and ask for a supervisor, and get somebody with an even thicker accent, play tower of Babel for another week, finally get annoyed enough to demand a "teir 2 escalation", get put on hold with hissing silence and a bunch of clicks, sit there until your kids graduate college, and their kids do too, FINALLY hear somebody with a nasal midwestern twang say "may I help you?" and the battery croaks on the phone.... THIS is the REAL waste of time! 


OK, so that wasn't Aristo..... it was Dell, and rather than exaggerating, I think I might even have missed a few steps

(and for you grammar nazis. the above paragraph is a run on on purpose)


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Mik on 01/23/2009 6:14 PM
Posted By aceinspp on 01/22/2009 6:49 AM
I just pick up the phone and call. Wast of time e-mailing and waiting on answers. Later RJD


Waste of time? So instead you should just pick up the phone, dial the thing, get the stupid automated service, nothing fits, so press 01010101 get disconnected, call back, get computer again, yell "live body" at it about 800 times, get transferred to "someone who can help you"-- who doesn't answer the phone, listen to muzak or about 2 weeks, then get somebody with a Pakistani accent so heavy that you can cut it with a knife, get noplace with them for another ten days because you can 't even understand each other, get disconnected, call back get busy signal, call 4th time, go through all the above steps AGAIN, get sore and ask for a supervisor, and get somebody with an even thicker accent, play tower of Babel for another week, finally get annoyed enough to demand a "teir 2 escalation", get put on hold with hissing silence and a bunch of clicks, sit there until your kids graduate college, and their kids do too, FINALLY hear somebody with a nasal midwestern twang say "may I help you?" and the battery croaks on the phone.... THIS is the REAL waste of time! 


OK, so that wasn't Aristo..... it was Dell, and rather than exaggerating, I think I might even have missed a few steps

(and for you grammar nazis. the above paragraph is a run on on purpose)

Are we talking about any patticualr company? The above dissertation fits just about 99% of all the companies in the united states. They all have the auto phone crap. I have to Taken a double dose of blood presure pills to calm down after I been on one of those.

I have a customer here in AZ who's cell phone has the following message. " Your call is important to us, please leave a message and we will get right back to you " 

My Message was "IF MY CALL WAS IMPORTANT TO YOU I WOULD NOT BE IN YOUR VOICE MAIL" 

The person who invented the auto phone system should taken out and publicly fixed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I normally get a human right off when I call the parts department of USAT, Aristo, or Bachmann. 

I have not purchased much from Bachmann. 

When I call USAT, I get Mike. Mike is a nice guy and does the whole deal himself. They seem to have every part that they have a part number for. All the part numbers are on their site. I don't have to keep telling Mike my credit card number or address, he has them. 

When I call Aristo, if I get Navin, I'm in good shape to place the order. Paying for it usually gets me transferred to someone else. There's one person who does not like me. He is unfortunately often the gatekeeper. When that happens, my orders get lost, the credit card number I gave to someone else is lost, they cannot find my blah blah blah. My email is lost, it will go out today... I've gotten the runaround. 

(I run an IT department, I know when and how an email gets delivered.) 

They often do not have the parts, but Navin says, "I'll find them". They appear in the mail. Navin does not forget. I am happy. Thank you Navin. 

To the point of the last few posts, what I normally do is call the parts department, ask that person for their email... I email what I want to order. I call the next day and ask if they got my email. 

Then if there is a problem, we know right away. Writing it down in an email makes it impossible for a misunderstanding. Confirming by phone makes it even more impossible. 

So, that's my technique, and the phone AND email work for me, in combination. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/23/2009 7:29 PM
I normally get a human right off when I call the parts department of USAT, Aristo, or Bachmann. 

I have not purchased much from Bachmann. 

When I call USAT, I get Mike. Mike is a nice guy and does the whole deal himself. They seem to have every part that they have a part number for. All the part numbers are on their site. I don't have to keep telling Mike my credit card number or address, he has them. 

When I call Aristo, if I get Navin, I'm in good shape to place the order. Paying for it usually gets me transferred to someone else. There's one person who does not like me. He is unfortunately often the gatekeeper. When that happens, my orders get lost, the credit card number I gave to someone else is lost, they cannot find my blah blah blah. My email is lost, it will go out today... I've gotten the runaround. 

(I run an IT department, I know when and how an email gets delivered.) 

They often do not have the parts, but Navin says, "I'll find them". They appear in the mail. Navin does not forget. I am happy. Thank you Navin. 

To the point of the last few posts, what I normally do is call the parts department, ask that person for their email... I email what I want to order. I call the next day and ask if they got my email. 

Then if there is a problem, we know right away. Writing it down in an email makes it impossible for a misunderstanding. Confirming by phone makes it even more impossible. 

So, that's my technique, and the phone AND email work for me, in combination. 

Regards, Greg




No Goergie doesnt do that??????? he loves us......


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys 

Before you hang all the customer service reps out there, you need to know they can only help you as much as the company will allow them to. 

I worked in Customer Service directly for the last 10 years. 

Many times the customer service rep is told not to admit to any known problems with a product. 

We had customers call wanting help for products we were never told had been shipped to customers. We had customers call asking what a particular error code meant. When we went to ask the engineer that wrote the code, his answer was, that can’t be, no one was supposed to ever see that error. We dealt with newly released product all the time with no list of what error codes were written into the code let alone what the error code meant or what needed to be done to fix the issue. And don’t get upset if customer service doesn’t get right back with an answer to your problem. Many times they can’t get an answer from engineering themselves. 

Randy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe by re-reading my post you will see: 

I get people to answer the phone at Bachmann, USAT, and Aristo ( a positive thing, compared to JJ's post) 
I say that Mike at USAT and Navin are great ( a positive post) 

The only negative thing I said is there is one person at Aristo that does not like me and has obstructed my orders. I did not name this person. 

So, I did not "hang" all the customer service reps... I gave my honest, objective experience. 

My post had more positives than negatives. 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/21/2009 10:23 PM
I got an updated email address for USAT, it seems they just obsoleted the [email protected] .... use [email protected] or [email protected] ... 

I was talking to Mike in parts, and when I told him I was having problems emailing, he got someone knowledgeable on the phone in 15 seconds, and in 20 seconds I had the answer. 

Regards, Greg


Greg,

Did you also have problems emailing USAT? 


I sent the email using [email protected] with no response. I have now forward my email via the other address you have shown.

Thanks, 


-Ted 


A followup about customer service:

Having sent email several days ago to USAT (with a question about their SD70MAC that I was interested in getting) and subsequently forwarding the same message using their second, alternative email address, I still got no response - not even a "...Please Call us at...." after about 4 days now.
(I believe the email was sent successfully as I did not receive any returned error reports - further, I always copy to my work address as a backup, which I did get OK.)

I know that Greg's experience with USAT is very good - though I wonder if because they know him so well over the years. Me, I am just a nobody just off the street - so to speak.
I can only conclude that USAT is still adverse to email communications and with this media is just plain unresponsive just like my experience with them about 10 years ago. 
Whilst I realize I could try calling on the telephone, I believe a written answer is so much better.

Anyway, I harbor no animosity toward USAT, but I decided to increase my pre-order with RLD Hobbies to two AML brand SP / Cotton Belt GP60s. I think, they will be available later this year.
I am looking forward to trying out these new GP60s. 


-Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, email alone will not work at USAT in my experience, call charles ro, ask for "Mike in parts" and make sure you get him. 

I have heard charles ro is not good with email period. 

I have never had good experience with email alone with anyone, except Navin personally, who returns my emails right away. Kudos to him. 

I do not have as much experience with Bachmann in this area, but reading the Bachmann forum, you will get the feeling that it's the same there. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Ted,
I think those GP-60s are going to be sweet.....i wanted to order some but im in rehab rite now, he he he train rehab.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick: You say you ordered how many GP60s? Your rehabs only last a day or two.







. Later RJD


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/23/2009 8:22 PM
I believe by re-reading my post you will see: 

I get people to answer the phone at Bachmann, USAT, and Aristo ( a positive thing, compared to JJ's post) 
I say that Mike at USAT and Navin are great ( a positive post) 

The only negative thing I said is there is one person at Aristo that does not like me and has obstructed my orders. I did not name this person. 

So, I did not "hang" all the customer service reps... I gave my honest, objective experience. 

My post had more positives than negatives. 

Regards, Greg


Greg

Although my post directly followed your post, I was not meaning to say, you had said anything wrong. I only meant to provide some insight from the other side.

Randy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great, thanks for the clarification. I've been on the other side of the counter too! 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 01/24/2009 4:35 PM
Nick: You say you ordered how many GP60s? Your rehabs only last a day or two.







. Later RJD






*SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHH RJ you trying to get me in trouble, the train consulers can be tough you know..... ha ha ha







*


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01/24/2009 3:04 PM
...SNIP... 

Yes, email alone will not work at USAT in my experience, call charles ro, ask for "Mike in parts" and make sure you get him. 
I have heard charles ro is not good with email period. 
...SNIP...
Regards, Greg


I wonder why USAT bothers to lists its email address on their web site, particularly if only answered by Charles Ro who must filter to the extreme. One would think this could be delegated to support staff.

(At least my experience with Aristo I would get a reply when using their "TATE mail". Even Lewis will respond most of the time on those few occasions I sent email to him.)


Maybe I'll give them another try - 10 more years from now.









-Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Charles Ro IS USAT, but the emails have gotten through every time. 

I believe all of the "big 3" have history associated with the parts department that predates frequent (or even any ) use of email. 

It's sort of like they were doing their thing for years, and then this new electronic age came along, but they are still sort of doing business as they used to. All of them seem to NOT have a system of priorities, or a computerized way of handling orders. The parts orders seem to go through several hands from getting the parts request in, to filling the order to processesing the order, to getting the payment, to getting the shipment. In every case I have experienced, there is a lot of paper, and a number of places for your order to get lost. 

Regards, Greg


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Well, it took 6 days, but to the credit of Charles Ro Supply Co., using that email address, they did finally respond with a nicely worded email - though whoever responded did not identify himself.
They offered to sell me an SP SD70 with swapped out axles as a special request if I ordered it directly from them (Charles Ro Supply Co.).


-Ted


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## Wendell Hanks (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik and all:

My GUESS is the Aristo service human simply needed to say: 

"OK, the wire colors vary from product-to-product so I won't try to help you using wire colors. You can send it in for repair but let's give it a try by phone. So I will try by verbally tracing, one at a time, each of the two wires from one connection to the other OK? If so, have the wiring exposed and let me know when to start. Describe the first connection so we know we are working on the same part." 

There is always the question of what successful customer service training tech people get in working with varied scenarios that customers present.
I have found the most courteous people expressing frustration at not having an alternative method of explanation so they get parental or rebellious -- totally out of usual character when they know how to handle a situation.

Wendell


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## Wendell Hanks (Jan 2, 2008)

P.S.

To John J. and Mik --
Great reads!
Mik's DELL phone dialogue captures all - analagous to asking the TV pitchman SHAMWHAM for a refund.
John J's. pithy response to "message is important.." Yes, if the call was important why am I leaving a message? is on-target

Ah, therapy through print!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Usually If I get to a phone site that wants you to keep pressing a number to go here or there just try some time hitting 0 a whole bunch of times in a row or 1 also and low and be hole you will get a real person. Yes I still pick up the phone and do not send e-mails. Just called USAT today and order a bunch of parts. Mike sure is nice to deal with. No fuss no muss. Later RJD


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

Wendell,
I have to respectfully disagree with you as I work on the other end. At this time I work a computer help desk.One of the things you have to watch is time as in how much you spend with each customer troubleshooting an issue. Rule of thumb is if you feel that aftert the 1st five minutes the problem won't be fixed in the following ten minutes that it should go to the next level. There are exceptions to this. (Note that this is the rule at my company but also a standard in the industry.).
Also when you are dealing on the phone with people on a technical issue you don't know what their experience is in troubleshooting issues or what they have for dignostic tools or if they know how to use what tools they have. Now if Navin started troubleshooting over the phone with customers it would be a time killer and if the customer at the other end made a mistake following his directions and fried electronics , broke a component, or burnt out a motor guess who he blames. Be assured that he wouldn't blame himself. There would be a complaint emailed or called in to Lewis. 
LAO


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

In the past I have been hesitant to buy anything but LGB. (Snuck that one in.). In the early 90's I had purchased USA boxcars to go with my LGB ones and I had issues with the brittleness of their plastic especially handrails. I just loved drilling out the holes for them and then have to glue them only to have them break. then have to drill out the broken hand rail and replace it. Then again I had problems with the 1st Aristo FA (used) unit. I had to spend more time cleaning the pickups than running it. I decided to get another one maybe more now that they have the new motor blocks. So for over 10 to 15 years 90% of my purchases have been LGB. I mostly only had to get piece parts until I had a Mikado transaxke go bad. As I have finally settled on the NE Corridor RR's (Penn, NH, Amtrak, and local MBTA) I have been purchasing USA, Aristo, and an AML K4. My biggest issue is the dark ages (I know it is geting better.) G scale is still in regarding being able to install 3rd party sound systems and/or control systems. I just love having a loco from manufacturer A that I have to get a sound system from Manufacturer B, and then a controller from Manufacturer C. At least I have some technical training. I hate to think how a non-technical person would handle the issue. I can see when there is a problem them going from one vendor then getting bounced to the other, then another, then back to the original one. That is one of the things I loved about an LGB product. If there was a problem with their MTS sytem, or sound or engine/rolling stock I only had to call one number. I have only had minor issues with the Aristo and USA product I have recently purchased and neither were mechanical. One required return to manufacturer and one required cracking open an engine and gluing the driver back in his seat. The "T" will do that to a product. I have just started to perform the fixes that Greg has for the K4. Thank you Greg! 

LAO


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