# A warning to all!!!



## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

I was going to keep quiet regarding this as I am embarrassed but it is to important. PLEASE BE CAREFUL IN YOUR SHOP!!! I thought I was. A couple weeks back I had a fire in my work shop originating at one of my work benches. Neither I, the fire marshal, the adjusters or anyone else can determine the exact cause. In my heart, I feel I feel I could be responsible. Approximately 3.5~4 hours I had been working on a Barrett Atlantic and when satisfied with my adjustments and testing on rollers, I went through my normal shut down procedure and checked the fire box with a mirror as always and left the basement. Hours later as I was outside playing with my kids, I went in to get us drinks and there was smoke rolling out from under the basement door. I got there in the nick of time and fought it, unable to completely extinguish it, until the fire department arrived. While physical loss from fire was 5 locos, 3 moving boxes of cars, tools, etc, the smoke damage will have us in a hotel for months. This does not include my time in the hospital for smoke inhalation and on going complications which are occurring, not including severe deppression. The cause of the fire is undetermined. Could have been anything, but be very careful, not just with locos but with lithium batteries and their chargers.

David Johnson


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow! sorry to hear that David..
hope you recover quickly!

yeah, our little live steam locomotives can be dangerous..
just out of curiosity, what was the fuel in the locomotive?
what do you think caused the locomotives fire to remain "live" when you thought it was out?
I can see a coal fire doing that..

Scot


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

WOW! indeed! Sorry about the loss and hassle (that word sure doesn't convey what you are going through!)

Please, don't blame yourself so much... Accidents happen no matter how "careful" we are and there is not always a fault to be applied to a person. There is enough misery without self loathing on top of it.

Smoke damage can be a real problem. I hope your insurance will be paying for a professional company to come to clean up for you. There is as much art as science to clear out the smoke smell... and lots of hard work.

And thanks for the reminder!

Take care!


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

David, 
I am so sorry to read about your misfortune. I hope you did not suffer too much after effects of the smoke inhalation and that you and the family will be back in your home as soon as possible. I am sure your wife is equally as distressed as you are. I also hope the depression soon eases off. 

As a retired volunteer firefighter I do have to say that you have done us all a great service - despite your embarrassment - and not just for live steamer guys, in reminding us all of the dangers from fire in our workshops, basements or wherever we practice our hobby. We all can become complacent at times. I note that you had gone through the correct shut down procedures and that in itself must be hard to bear.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd take this off the forum, unless you are not collecting insurance from the insurance adjuster you mentioned. You never know who is reading this forum.

Greg


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

David,
Thanks for letting us all know.
I do hope that your life will return to more normal in the not too distant future.
Maybe it was nothing to do with your loco testing?
I do NOT test my locos indoors - always in the carport if it is raining, or on my railway if it is not.
Assuming that it was an alcohol fired loco, I like to be able to remove the fuel tank after running to empty it and make sure that the sump is dry. 
I have always run my locos dry at the end of a run rather than blow out a fire and have wick tubes full of fuel.
I know that some say that this causes the wicks to do this or that, but after all the years that I have been running, I have had no problems.
So, a definite reminder to us all to be careful, and then more careful!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada
David


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Greg, thank you for your advice. I told them honestly everything I stated here. I do not mislead or state mistruths. I was forthright and even if I did in fact burn my house down with a welding torch, it is still covered. It's all in the reports. It could have been a lipo battery, a charger or any other thing. I even demonstrated my shut down procedure for the fire Marshall and the adjuster. They both though I used sound practices. i will be doing as David in the future. 

David Johnson


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## HampshireCountyNarrowGage (Apr 4, 2012)

David,

Sorry to read of your loses, but you and yours are all safe and sound. Your locomotive can be replaced, your love ones can't. Be thankful for that. Glad to hear you are recovering well.

Thank you for your warning as well. My locomotive is gas fired and when I shut her down I make sure the gas valve is closed. I too don't light her up inside the house.

Be well.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I'd take this off the forum, unless you are not collecting insurance from the insurance adjuster you mentioned. You never know who is reading this forum.
> 
> Greg


Greg,
We have insurance to cover accidents, as this clearly is.
Dave didn't deliberately try to burn down his house, and that is the only reason that an insurance company would void his claim.
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Dave,

I too read your original post with sadness and relief that no one was seriously injured . . . and I thank you for sharing with the community here.

Might this story present an opportunity for a "sticky" to be created reviewing best practices?

It is only recently that I read in the manual for one of my two lighted bench magnifiers that they should not be left near a window and that they should be covered up between uses. Some things that in hindsight appear obvious are not so obvious to many or perhaps even most.

I run my gas fired and alcohol fired locos indoors when on a rolling road, making sure to:

Open windows and place a ventilator fan at the nearest window.
Keep a bucket of water near the loco during the run
Run until the alcohol (or gas) is used up and then make sure there is nothing in the sump after running.
In the case of alcohol, when the wicks are burning orange and the meths pipe is full of air, I blow out the flame through the chimney.
After the loco has cooled, I generally wash down the loco and the tender with warm soapy water after emptying the oiler and refilling. I then pat everything dry and re-lube the chassis. This extra handling on my part would tend ensure there is nothing amiss that would lead to a smoldering condition.

I would, of course, never operate a coal fired loco indoors.

Am I overlooking anything?

Do we have a best practices thread in here anywhere?

Cheers,

Joe


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, sorry about your disaster. If it did not originate at your loco do they have any suspicions? Could it have been electrical?


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, I'm sorry to hear the news. But like others have said, the equipment is replaceable. I'm very careful when brazing on my workbench in the garage with two fire extinguishers, both within six feet and in opposite directions. But I am much less vigilant when it comes to testing loco's on the workbench.

I thank you for giving us this sober reminder of the dangers of our "run of the mill", everyday testing.

I wish you and your family and your home a speedy recovery.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

David, I'm glad there's no problem with the insurance, just did not want you to have any trouble with the insurance guys, it can be a real nightmare some times.

Sorry about your loss, my condolences, and there was no intent to impune your honesty at all.

Regards, Greg


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave
Glad you and family are safe along with the home in tactic. Hope the recovery and rehab goes well for the house and trains.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,
Sorry for your loss and hopefully a speedy recovery of health and property. Your story reminds me of an event almost 10 years ago, when one of my (then) alcohol fired locos tipped over and started a grass fire during summer in California. We managed to contain it, but decided to convert our locos to butane. So now I am a believer of butane, but only for safety reasons. I know that you can have nice flare-ups with gas too, but usually they are confined to the steam-up area where there should not be any combustible material anyway.
Regards


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Sorry about your loss David.
It only takes a basic 9 volt battery to short against something in a drawer to start a fire.

Andrew


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

StackTalk said:


> Am I overlooking anything?


*Yes, never run or test them indoors in the first place. *I almost burned my garage down once while testing a Loco. It only takes once, you don't want to learn the hard way. David, so happy that you are ok. Now, try to stop beating yourself up over this, all is fine.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear of your loss, but glad it wasn't far worse.

I would like to tell everyone about a fire I had in my house up north some 31 years ago. It was Christmas evening in WV. The temp had been down around 0 for the past couple of days so I had had the fire place going since the morning of Christmas Eve. The then wife and I were sitting in the living room by the fire place. The fire had pretty much burnt it's self out and we had closed the doors. The two kids were in bed sound to sleep. It was around mid-night and the wife and I talked about going to bed when the wife said she seen smoke coming out of the hearth. I said it couldn't be and that she must be seeing things. Well she seen it again and so I looked closer and sure enough it looked like mini smoke signals. So I went down to the basement and low and behold, the wood boards under the hearth and rafters were on fire. So I yelled for the wife to call the fire dept, and went over into the garage, got the water hose and started fighting the fire. While I got the flames out, the fireman came and watered down the area some more and pulled 3 of the 4, 1 inch thick boards out from under the hearth. The 4th would not come out as it was wedged in place. Then they flooded the area some more and when they thought the fire was completely out, told my wife and I to take a stiff drink and go to bed. Well, to say the least, we were both wired from what had just happened and we were not ready to go to sleep, so we sat there in front of the fire place talking about what all just happened. So about an hour later, we were saying we should get to bed, when the wife said she seen smoke again coming from the hearth. I went back down stairs and back in the corner, the 4th boards was again burning. So we called the fire dept again and I hosed the flames again. This time the fireman worked a little harder and got the 4th board on the ground. Through this whole even, the kids never woke up and we let them sleep as the fire never got out of control. BUT, two times, we almost went to bed with the house on fire.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Thank you for sharing your story, Randy.

There seems to be at least two kinds of worry concerning fire hazards:

What happens while you or someone else is in attendance.
What latent event occurs when no one is around.

I had a couple of near disasters myself that turned out fine because someone was around to intervene as in your story. 

Around 1970 or so I was living in a rented apartment when I noticed a burning smell just before leaving for school (college.) I happened to feel the wall near a light switch and it was hot to the touch. Somehow, I did not remove the wall plate as the wall would have burst into visible flames had I supplied additional O2 to the fire. I ran to the basement and shut off the circuit breakers and then called the Fire Department. (It could have been the other way around. I can't remember how smart I was back then.  ) The FD showed up minutes later with sirens blaring and axes in hand ready to knock the door in. They opened up the wall and sure enough there was more than a little damage. Had I not smelled the smoldering, there would have been a big fire to be sure.

Second time was a car fire where I lost my 1975 Lancia Beta Coupe. I had just gotten it back from a major repair and it seems that, in re-routing the main +12VDC from the battery to the starter, the shop ran the feed wire over the exhaust manifold and touching it, apparently. The heavy-gauge wiring fused to the manifold and the battery burst into flames starting an oil and gas fire under the hood. The aluminum head FIAT engine was a notorious oil leaker and so there was fuel to get things going. Once the plastic dashboard and interior of the car lit up, there was no stopping it until I had a smoldering wreck. I was out there with a garden hose when the FD showed up.

I agree that Dave should not be beating himself up. It is quite possible that the fire was only coincidentally associated with his running an engine.

I guess we all wish we knew what actually happened.

Regards,

Joe


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

Wow, Dave, sorry to hear about this. Glad things weren't any worse.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

So sorry to hear of the loss of stuff, David.... 

Glad all the family is OK... 

Time does heal the wounds...


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

A formerly straight 2' piece of Aristo track from my former basement layout


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Sad story Dave and you just moved there awhile back. You can handle it, I'm sure.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Dave,
I am sure that you can straighten that piece of track and bring it back to the correct gauge!
Are any of the lost 5 locos 'salvageable'?
Will the insurance company be able to find the same to replace, or just the dollar value.
How is the work on the house going?
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Last one, below is a box with two kit built and one scratch built engines. That concludes this thread for me.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice job of weathering.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Yes, well done. I prefer my locos rare. 

Andrew


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