# New Aristo 0-4-0



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Over on the Aristo forum Lewis Polk mentions something about a new D-cut wheel on the 0-4-0. Anyone know what that is?


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

D cut wheel. Since Aristo is going out of business, in order to reduce material cost you now only get 80% of the wheel.









Here is hoping that a D cut wheel is the hub and axle cut in a D. That would certainly end loose driver issues.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

That would also make quartering a problem. What I was hoping for is a new wheel profile with a thinner flange like they promised for the 2-8-0 that never materialized.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Are the new motor blocks available seperately? 
I've got an old one, thought it make a good inspection engine... 

John


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

I,ve got a 0-4-0 with tender $100.00 takes it +$10.00 shipping


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, give more details .


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Paul 
I would almost put money on it having the same profile as the new sd45 that have the d center and thinner flange 
dick


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

I think Lewis a few years ago that he was going to use the sd45 motor block so I am pretty sure that what it is.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Mark 
if it was a sd45 motor block wouldn't it be a 0-6-0? but I could see a gp40 motor block with the new wheels.
Dick


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, the "D cut" is referring to the D shape. 

I have another report that there is a barrel of them at "Navins place", i.e. service, reported by a person looking for parts. 

This may be the opportunity for Aristo to make good on the promises to replace the Consolidation wheels. 

Will try to find out more. 

Greg


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty I sent you an email on the 0-4-0


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Greg 
yes they have wheels but no axles 
Dick


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Are the 0-4-0 wheels the same size as the consolidation ,mikado and mallet? If they are and it is a new profile then this could be interesting. It would also need new gear boxes or at least new axles to convert the consolidation. But,kind of getting the cart before the horse in my thinking. Maybe someone will post a closeup of the wheels.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

They were previously. It will be interesting to see how the drivers are synced on the 0-4-0 given that you have the hex drive to the gearbox from the motor. 

It seems possible that with all the slop in the side rods, that the hex "positions" can be chosen to sync the drivers well enough not to bind. 

To really solve the problem (assuming the wheels are an improvement) you need the "D type" axles too.. 

Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone got one yet?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It will be interesting... I got some more information today, but let's see what the locos actually come with. 

Saw a video today, looked like the smoke "puffed" 

Greg


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

the smoke puffed on the old ones too (mine is 10+ years old). A little bellows in one of the cylinders moved the air. It also caused a lot of binding in the side rods, so I removed the link nick jr


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Apparently the "spare parts" to retrofit existing steam locos are not available yet, "under development"... at least a positive sign... was pretty dubious that the spare parts would be here before a steam loco was outfitted with them. 

What is still to be seen is if the 0-4-0's actually have this different axle and wheel. 

Hopefully in a few days someone will take a wheel off and take pictures. 

Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,
That is what I'm hoping for,a picture of a wheel. I have a couple friends that have shelf queen consolidations that will remain so until they can retrofit new wheels.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter 
I thought you had the newest one. thanks any way.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well hopefully mine will show up Mon or Tues. So then we will know the rest of the story. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By pete on 29 Aug 2013 03:57 PM 
I,ve got a 0-4-0 with tender $100.00 takes it +$10.00 shipping 
Last AC 0-4-0 I had, I ended up giving away, with caboose, for free. Just to get it out of here.
NOBODY wanted it. Hope you get yer hunnnert bucks.
TOC


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

no problem marty


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 07 Sep 2013 10:11 AM 
Well hopefully mine will show up Mon or Tues. So then we will know the rest of the story. Later RJD 
Please let us know what you think, this is one of the few AC locos that could actually work well on the harbor layout, but at $185 it had better be significantly better than the last versions, I already have 3 Piko saddletankers, so justifications for adding this would have to be pretty darn good ones.

Didn't the earliest versions of this also did not have the splined axle mounts?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic it failed to show up so it looks like This coming Monday. I will defiantly post here what I think of it and was has change and if all the wheels are within the correct tolerances. Later RJD


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well my new 0-4-0 showed up today and of course some surprises but over all it will be a good runner.
The thing I did not like was the UP herald but as I will be re lettering It will be gone. The side rods are all plastic so that's a minus. As you can see the wheels are still shinny type and not the blackened steel wheels like on the New SD45. The good is that the flanges are narrower. I measured 2.14mm as compared to the 2-8-0 at 2.61 mm. The contour appears to be different also as I got a different wheels size reading on the 0-4-0 (45.76mm) as compared to the 2-8-0 (48.37mm). So hopefully one will be able to use the 0-4-0 wheels on the 2-8-0.








Here is a look at the wheels and gear box. Sad to say it looks all new and not a GP40 brick. Will check futher when time permits.









The back to back spacing measures more on the front driver (40.24 mm) compared to the rear(39.76 mm) Have not had it on the RR yet just on rollers.









The loco now comes with a battery plug and a separate switch to activate. All switches located inside the tender and accessible by removing the front part of the coal load The QSI just fits and not really to much extra room to spare.









There are two more switches located on the firemans side of the loco. One is for the motor control and another is for the smoke control. Why this is don't know but I do know one must read instructions as I could not get the loco to run at first. Then found out about these two switches so once turned on loco ran. Da. Looks like the unit is a little light weight so will have to add some weight. Hope this help for those looking for some answers. Not a total review but all for now. Oops one last thing is the front axle does pivot side to side. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Thats too bad about the loss of the pivoting axle, it helped with rough track, that makes perfect track a necessity. 

I'm not really wild about the cheap looking plastic siderods. Granted this was never a highly detailed loco to begin with but it sure looks almost identical to the 20 year old versions. Thats why I am still wondering whether its worth the $185 AC is asking for it, remember I dont use any of the electronics stuffed inside. The idiots on Ebay are routinely trying to hawk old 7-UP Express versions with the junky wheel plating for close to this price, so i will keep an eye on this for reports to garner whether its worth it or not to plan on one down the line.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic reread my post we did not loose the pivot axle.Also I do not know who came up with the D wheels info but your wrong idoes not have this on these wheels nso they may fit on the 2-8-0 . Will post a pic when I down load them. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry I misread it, so IOWs, its exactly the same as the previous version only with more useless (for me) electronics inside? 

I sure dont see any D cut on the wheel axles, that sure looks like the old style mounting. My HLW that has D cut axles also has the mounting screw that threads into the axle to hold it tight. 

Are you SURE this is from the latest PRC shipment and not NOS ?


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 16 Sep 2013 03:25 PM 
Vic reread my post we did not loose the pivot axle.Also I do not know who came up with the D wheels info but your wrong it does not have this on these wheels so they may fit on the 2-6-0 . Will post a pic when I down load them. Later RJD 
I think that was one of those mis-infomercials out of Joisey. It has since been determined they have no intention at this time of fixes to the wheels and axles on steamers with D connections.
Everyone was waiting for someone who was willing to spend the money to see what was actually there.
End of story.
Thanks.

However, you wondered where this stuff comes from, right? Well, somebody who loves his Aristo makes a post where he mentions the 0-4-0 wheels fitting the 2-6-0.
So now the new rumour mill will fire up, and we'll need another "interview" of the officers of the company by an employee, posted on their website and locked to prevent comments, just to de-fuse those kind of rumours.

I wonder (aloud) if they will blame someone on the West Coast again?
TOC


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry to say but I think AC will fix. After futher review of the loco there is no D cut axles or wheels. These look like the same wheels that come on the 2-8-0 and are splined. As mentioned the flanges are thinner also. So If they get replacement wheels in they should go right on the 2-8-0. So Curmudgeon now you stop worrying that all is not well. To much neg about a lot of stuff here. And BTW I'm not a cool aid drinker I just tell it like it is. I try to stay positive. Later RJD


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

BTW here is a pick of the driver and you can also see the spline on the axle. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 16 Sep 2013 05:22 PM 
Sorry to say but I think AC will fix. After futher review of the loco there is no D cut axles or wheels. These look like the same wheels that come on the 2-8-0 and are splined. As mentioned the flanges are thinner also. So If they get replacement wheels in they should go right on the 2-8-0. So Curmudgeon now you stop worrying that all is not well. To much neg about a lot of stuff here. And BTW I'm not a cool aid drinker I just tell it like it is. I try to stay positive. Later RJD Good thing I quoted you on the 2-6-0 then. Never know how many saw that......
Splined is better for trying to line up steam drivers than D anyway.
TOC


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Smoke unit is not new type either as claimed by Aristo. 

Maybe they should not announce features in their own forum until they get the loco in hand and LOOK at it. 

Greg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

This looks more and more like NOS than a revamped upgraded new version.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Here is an old one. I'm not sure how the wheels are fitted.
It doesn't look as if much has changed except for the splined axles and the finish on the wheels.
Not a very smooth runner. It grinds along... 

Andrew


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't tell from the photos,those splined axles (on the just released loco) straight or tapered like the 2-8-0, mikado,etc?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I have an older unit (aprox; 10 years) that came from a starter set tho' not a pretty pink like Anderws.... 
It has; plastic valve gear. Painted a darker color so not as noticable. 
Solid wheel to axles , the wheels don't come off, probably sleeved half axles. The early plating was bad, I changed out the wheels (an Aristo fix) and motor (I killed it). 

John


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul: the splined axle is straight another bummer if one thought we could use on the connie. later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 17 Sep 2013 10:18 AM 
Paul: the splined axle is straight another bummer if one thought we could use on the connie. later RJD 
Just a question.....is this another repeating of some obscure west coast rumour? Why would anyone ever think a splined axle could be used on a conical wheel? The mind actually boggles at the concept of rumourmongering that must have occurred to come up with that piece of garbage.

Of course, there were some AMC-era Jeep CJ's that had splined axles....and smooth hubs.....and it took one helluva press to separate them....and you hammered them together with a new hub every time at eleventy gazillion foot pounds of torque....but these aren't CJ's, these are PRC/AC units, so all bets are off.

And you wonder where these rumours come from or how they get spread.

TOC


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

That answers the question. The new wheels are unique to the 0-4-0. Still waiting for a redesigned wheel as promised for the 2-8-0. It was a post by Lewis Polk on the Aristo website that specifically said the new 0-4-0 woud have D cut wheels.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Paul Burch on 17 Sep 2013 11:38 AM 
That answers the question. The new wheels are unique to the 0-4-0. Still waiting for a redesigned wheel as promised for the 2-8-0. It was a post by Lewis Polk on the Aristo website that specifically said the new 0-4-0 woud have D cut wheels.
Gotta be careful. Saying things like that where the absolute blame for the D axle rumour is laid at The Great One's feet is going to raise blood pressure to stroke levels in some closet K/A drinkers.

With all of this, it really depends on which dysfunctional member of the organization you talk to.

Of late, one guy I have had to deal with on wheels and axles, gets one story from Navin, one from Scott, another posted by Looooooeeeee hisself, then a follow up from Navin......4 stories, none of them jive.

Maybe we need a definition of "D". Along the lines of "sips power", "better than dcc", "expert modelers tell us it's just right", "three times the size of H0..."

Some bright young lad should write a book....sort of like Barry's Book on dcs that needs frequent updates (new books) and comes with a folded up tinfoil hat.......maybe some self proclaimed expert....

Title it "One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest".


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe a certain person at the head of AC should check out what the engineers are designing and what really will be adopted to the new loco and then have to end up sticking foot in mouth and have to back peddle. Yikes. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Mad Magazine did their take on that movie, they called it "One Cuckoo Flew Over The Rest" 

I still wonder if RJD got and what was actually shipped by China was simply NOS put in the container and sent to clear stock, or its a new run but of the last most recent version with only a couple changes like the switches on the side and the electronic internals.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I think this is a classic example of Polkspeak misinterpretation. 

I really don't think he does it on purpose, it's just his way of generalizing. For example, he knows something has been updated, he hears the words "D axle", "splines", "keyways", or "tapers" tossed around and just throws it out there that the proper update has been done without bothering to learn the details. There may also be disconnects between what his people SAY they are going to do, what they ACTUALLY do, what the PRC people actually SHIP.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Cougar: I think you hit it on the nail head there. 

BTW Vic it's new to a point even you said electronics so it can not be said NOS. Now here is the kicker build date stamped on tender and loco. Are you ready 2011. So where have these been for the past year and half? Floating around the Pacific ocean waiting for a port date. Yikes. Later RJD


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Perhaps this stock has been withheld all this time waiting for payment. 
No pay, no choo choo! 

Andrew


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Check out the reply on AC about this. Ba hum bug. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And 2 people have confirmed the box says "new for 2012", so manufactured in 2011, boxed in 2012, shipped in 2013... 

Just read the forum, looks like the entire staff has gotten a bulk purchase of Kool Aid.. 

"The 0-4-0 engines were just made this year. The 2011 date on yours reflects the most recent change to the road number, although it would have been better if the factory used the more current (2013) builder mark." 

So built in 2013, but when they built them this year, they stamped them with 2011? 

How does that jive with the other admissions (public) that they had product sitting on the docks? Now THAT is more believable... at least one of these 2 statements is untrue. 

Man... can't they just keep quiet? You would think that having foot in mouth would inhibit talking. 

Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I talked to a well known West Coast source a while back, who said, simply, Lewis needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. 
Geez. He hears spline, taper, D, and throws out D, then gets the faithful all worked up over which West Coast Technical person started the rumour? 

Gimme a break. 

Oh, yeah, we'd like to sell you this 2013 Wliiys Overland...ignore the title that says 1949....the factory should have put 2013 on it. 

Horse. 
Manure. 

TOC


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I am just surprised that this "new" super dooper 0-4-0 is not being shouted from the rafters in the latest (Oct 2013) GR. 
But then again, there is not one iota of advertising by AristoCraft (or Crest) in said issue. 
Just what is going on with AC?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Tony, I think AC are running on the smell of an oily rag.


Totalwrecker, I don't do PINK. It's teddy bear brown!
Those first generation wheels are some kind of bronze and are real crud magnets.
Originally the wheels were half axles with knurling that met within the plastic gear. 


Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's too bad that the drive and wheel improvements are overshadowed by the false statements about the D cut wheels, the year of manufacture, and other fabrications. 

So the wheel contours seem better, the rough cast surface on the treads is gone. I need to hear more measurements on gauge, back to back, and flange thickness. 

The smoke unit is indicated as new, but seems to be no different in basic design. 

Overall, an improvement. 

Greg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 17 Sep 2013 07:12 PM 
Oh, yeah, we'd like to sell you this 2013 Wliiys Overland...ignore the title that says 1949....the factory should have put 2013 on it. 



TOC 


Actually I can do just that ...sort of. http://www.icon4x4.com/overview/cj/models Check this out Dave. Want a flat fender CJ with a 2013 vin? Here ya go. They are rebuilt from the frame up and are for all intents ...brand new. The trucks from Icon are great offroaders by all accounts. But personally I prefer the Bronco rebuild.


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## adir tom (Dec 4, 2011)

Tony, you will notice, only one retailer had any AC items in their ads. Hard to justify space for an item that the manufacturer has only a few in stock or no stock at all.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 17 Sep 2013 09:21 PM 
Posted By Curmudgeon on 17 Sep 2013 07:12 PM 
Oh, yeah, we'd like to sell you this 2013 Wliiys Overland...ignore the title that says 1949....the factory should have put 2013 on it. 



TOC 


Actually I can do just that ...sort of. http://www.icon4x4.com/overview/cj/models Check this out Dave. Want a flat fender CJ with a 2013 vin? Here ya go. They are rebuilt from the frame up and are for all intents ...brand new. The trucks from Icon are great offroaders by all accounts. But personally I prefer the Bronco rebuild. 
Except..those aren't. Modern everything, smog, emissions testing. MY 1949 Willys Overland, now...3/4 race flathead Merc....no emissions......


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg if you read the part where I posted pics you have your answers for measurements. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Just so we know: 

There are new D-Cut wheels in the 0-4-0...... 
All the best, 
Lewis Polk 

http://www.aristocraftforum.com/vbulletinforums/showthread.php?t=20689 


All the true believers, ignore the man behind the curtain....and any obvious photographs that show otherwise. 
Officially the new 0-4-0's have D cut axles and wheels. 

TOC


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep and if you believe that I got some ocean front property in Arizona that I will sell you cheap. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

snicker.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes RJ, I said " I need to hear *more *measurements on gauge, back to back, and flange thickness. " 

Any scientist will tell you that you need multiple measurements in any situation, and especially in the Aristo situation.

I just want 4 to 5 sets of measurements before I draw ANY conclusions.

Greg
Posted By aceinspp on 18 Sep 2013 09:37 AM 
Greg if you read the part where I posted pics you have your answers for measurements. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

OK I am track powered no sound anything on R1 LGB turnouts. 

So is this latest version better than or about the same as, the last versions?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Huge increase in power pickup. Motor block seems more sturdy. I think those are the things you will notice. 

Seems to be some improvement in the smoke wick. 

Better wheel contour. 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Then Greg you should have stated that in your post. You got what you asked for originally. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

RJ, as a friend, I asked you for measurements and I got them thank you. 

In order to form a full understanding and evaluation, I want more information to corroborate your findings. 

And the quotes mean that IS what I said originally. 

Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

deleted


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks guys, but a bit of a mute question now.

One of my ridiculous *low* bids on Ebay that I always get out bid on turned out to be the_ only_ bid on an ATSF set with the last version 0-4-0. So I woke this am to find I won it. Payed about 1/2 the price of the new offering on ACs website for the whole set (minus track and powerpack which I dont need). I plan to sell the boxcar and maybe the caboose, but a two truck boxcab conversion might be usefull. Also plan to add LGB BBs w/ power picks though I'm pretty sure I have an AC truck with power picks already.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Greg you may or may not see any additional readings. In this case it's a mute thing and no two folks will give you the same reading anyway. Take it for what it is worth or Ha Ha buy one and give us your evaluation. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

The best part of this RJ is the multiple readings from multiple sources. 
For instance, when I reviewed the Bach 2-8-0 11 years ago, I recorded and reported all wheel back to back readings (nobody else could be bothered up until then). 
Other purchasers have vastly varying readings......and sure enough, they are all over the place. 
So, if you give your readings, Vic, gives his, Paul his, and anybody else who is willing to part with good money for a 2011 product, we can see just how much variance the PRC/QC team allows into the products. 

Down side of that is those who have been to the trough may not want anything out there for the public to see. 

TOC


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Hehehe, you guys are assuming I even have the calipers to measure them, remember I'm the guy who says scales are for fish :-D


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah, and large scales are for dinosaurs.









Andrew


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 19 Sep 2013 10:54 PM 
Hehehe, you guys are assuming I even have the calipers to measure them, remember I'm the guy who says scales are for fish :-D 
I thought scales were something they kept at Weight Watchers.....


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Does putting a small ribbon on a turd change what it is?????? JMHO nick jr


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 20 Sep 2013 09:39 AM 
Posted By vsmith on 19 Sep 2013 10:54 PM 
Hehehe, you guys are assuming I even have the calipers to measure them, remember I'm the guy who says scales are for fish :-D 
I thought scales were something they kept at Weight Watchers..... 

Another good reason not to keep one.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 16 Sep 2013 05:22 PM 
So Curmudgeon now you stop worrying that all is not well. 
I try to stay positive. Later RJD 

Oh, I am not worrying. I know they have fixed this perfectly. Latest and greatest technology...from 2011 no less.
I am convinced the splined axles will fix the slipping issues. I am convinced they have no longer used the little star washer only under the axle screws, rather a flat washer to bind the wheel properly, with the star washer on the outside of the flat to lock the screw.
Lewis only cares about the hobby and the hobbyist, it's absolutely wonderful.
The plastic rods keep the noise down when you forget to lubricate.
The 2011 marker on the loco can be removed or covered up to keep our sense of well-being...and the 2012 box burned to remove all evidence that might give us pause.
Sort of like Peter Pan's son Jack in the baseball game.
I really am impressed all to pieces over the UP emblem on the side of the cab.
I think UP should have done that in the days when these were in use.
http://farm1.staticflickr.com/115/288233121_a34393a1d4_s.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kalovelady/288233121/in/photostream/

As you can see, this is a bigger switcher with slopeback tender, and they really had room for that emblem here.

Incrementally, they will get it all right, patents not withstanding.

TOC


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I'll be waiting for those to post the measurements other than me. Greg and Curmudgeon may have to buy one so we get more information to corroborate my findings. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 21 Sep 2013 01:27 PM 
Well I'll be waiting for those to post the measurements other than me. Greg and Curmudgeon may have to buy one so we get more information to corroborate my findings. Later RJD

Be a cold day in you-know-where before I ever, as in ever, give any of my cash to any of the PolkFolk again.
I'll leave that to people who don't mind buying something of dubious vintage.

TOC


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Of Dubious Vintage? Is that a reference to my purchase Dave???

















http://www.lilesnet.com/father/2013/pix-funny-wine.jpg


OK for those who know, when I get my late model 0-4-0, which apparently has not been run much if I am to believe the seller:

What should I immediately be on the look out for, or be wary of when one first gets one of these? 

I don't plan to run it much for now, as the layout is still far from finished. But I want to be aware of what I should keep an eye on.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 22 Sep 2013 05:41 PM 
Of Dubious Vintage? Is that a reference to my purchase Dave???












Nah. The 2011 build stamp, the "New for 2012" on the box, and the September 2013 delivery.....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Hum still waiting for those additional readings. Who said you had to give your money to Polk just buy from a vender.







Your post can be taken either way. I always look for loop holes. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Maybe you don't understand how it works. The only way to avoid the money supporting those guys is the used market. 
I have discovered two AC items in the basement...have to ship them off to someone else. 
They might infect my Lionel.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

RJD my 0-4-0 arrived, but any measurement would be pointless as the bloody wheels are loose on the axles ...and the motors fried . 

Looks like the wheels slipped, binded the siderods which jambed and burned up the motor. I'll know more when I remove the motor. BTW This is by appearance very brand new ...the seller had sold it as is, so l'm stuck. I can't blame them 

I think I can fix it .... 

Hey Dave got any spare motors in that batch of basement stuff? or a old version I can bugger for parts. If nothing else I can add motor bricks under the tender after epoxying the wheels in place sans motor , yeah its a pain but this engine just screams waterfront.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Maybe. Maybe naught. Got a photo and dimensions? 
Got a whole raft of Bachmann motors...including Shay double enders. 
Length of motor and size of shaft....


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave let me get it out of there. I can give then exact info. Will PM data.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By vsmith on 25 Sep 2013 09:35 PM 

...the seller had sold it as is, so l'm stuck. I can't blame them 
This is how the dumb and ignorant shall inherit the earth. 
I bet they never stated whether they tested it or not. They win by denial, I don't buy it.

Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I know I was gambling on it when I bid 

In emails with the seller, they stated that it was used for only occasionally, then packed away for a couple years but that it had worked prior to then but that they couldn't guarantee if it was running before being boxed away , it looks to be prior to about 2010. 

The thing is, on inspection this has very very little wear if any on the wheels. The set is in VERY new condition, almost no discernible wear, so it wasn't run till the wheels fell of, it appears from what I can tell it looks like it was running when brand new, then very shortly thereafter the wheels slipped, the rods bound up and it just stopped running and the seller without investigating just boxed it away, 2 years later the seller moved, decided to sell it, and did so without testing it as an as-is sale. 

No matter what my sales situation is, the fact is that the F-ups on this came straight from China, and it was F-ed up before the seller even opened the box, I have to say I was a bit on the fence about the whole AC debacle but jezzuz christmascookies, this is ridiculous, I've had battery toy trains that were far more reliable and better built than this. Now I know exactly why so many have had it with AC. QC are just letters in the alphabet. 

I have to motor out now, and it DOES run....but only at full power and after giving the shaft a twist, if you lower the power it stops and won't turn again even with turning the shaft, its binding on something internally. Thats in both directions.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Vic, maybe one of the coils is cooked which may explain why it only goes full throttle relying on inertia to get past the dud one. The cooked winding may have come loose and binds. 

Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe so, it still means 'new motor' which given ACs druthers is not going to easy to find.


edit: AC site shows they have replacement motors in stock so I ordered one, well see what happens next


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Vic, I had a quick look going by the number on an early (cruddy integral wheel/axle) model's motor at Mabuchi and bingo! Found it straight away but the Aristo motor has a 98mm shaft where as the motor found does not.



Mabuchi RS-385PH 

I also vaguely recall reading somewhere (probably MLS) that an Aristo motor or motors were custom manufactured for application and not common types. Can't remember the specific details of that statement though so take it with a grain of salt.

The Hartland Mack uses exactly the same motor but has a slightly longer shaft so you could use one of those if they are available, press the worm gears closer together and trim the shaft length. All assuming your model of Aristo 0-4-0 uses the same as the one I have. 

Every time I look at a possibility I find something. What about other small locos with a 70mm+ wheelbase as a source for a long shaft motor? 

Incidentally, the gears on the axles look the same on Aristo 0-4-0 and HLW Mack so if you made new wheel bushings perhaps you could do all kinds of things with HLW parts!
I shall leave the next Frankenstein creation to you Vic.










Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Here are pics of the offending little bugger of a motor, it rolls pretty nicely without it. The number says its the same as yours Andrew but my pics look very different than the mfr cut sheet.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Rod Miller offers quite a few motors and is good to work with. I got a new motor for my Roberts Lines Zephyer.

Miller Motors


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Vic, Looks exactly the same as the motor I have (first model) except the left hand shaft measurement of 1-1/4" on your drawing is more like 1-1/8" on mine. 
I have a feeling that the Mabuchi motor is the same specs but the shaft is made longer for specific manufacturers gearing requirements. Therefore they don't serve as replacements. 
I didn't notice that you found spare parts at AristoCraft when I posted previously. 
If you can't get the spare part from AristoCraft I'm sure the modified Hartland Mack motor will work if Hartland keep spares. (Same number again but even longer shaft). 
The Mack has a wheelbase of about 3" (76mm) so the worms need to be repositioned to about 70mm or whatever it is on the AristoCraft 0-4-0. 

Andrew


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## Jonnychuffchuff (Dec 24, 2010)

Originally the wheels were half axles with knurling that met within the plastic gear. 


Andrew All agreed that was a total disaster. So what's the setup in the new iteration?


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Jonny, The axles must still be split otherwise each side would not be electrically isolated.
I noticed on the first model once the lightly knurled axle was spun in the plastic gear it would easily slip, so unless that has changed there still may be a fail point as far as the quartering goes. 

I'm not entirely sure but it seems there are four postulations as far as I can gather. 

1/ Integral bronze wheel and half axle with blackening that easily oxidizes and picks up crud.








2/ Separate plated wheel that is pressed on axle that slips out of quarter.








3/ 'Fantasy' separate plated wheel with a D join that doesn't slip out of quarter.








4/ Separate plated wheel that has a spline.









Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I know on mine I can rotate either wheel on its axle despite the axle being locked by the motor gearing. So I am pretty sure each wheel is pressed onto the axle, probably with ineffective splines supposedly to lock the wheels in place. The motor locking plates appear to be iffy as well as does the shaft bearing seat at one end. Fun fun fun.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Vic, perhaps from my examples, models 2/ and 4/ are the same. Both with splines that have little bite. 

Andrew


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

You know Vic pics are worth a 1000 words. I'm in doubt as to you having the newest 0-4-0. You have not mentioned any of the new up dates. You also said the MOTORS where fried. The 0-4-0 only has one motor so maybe you have a rogers and not a 0-4-0. And BTW you can not replace the motor block as it is cast into the frame. Later RJD


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

aceinspp, I read Vic's post as "motor's" as in "motor is" rather than plural. 
He stated that the previous owner had it in a set that was stashed for some time before he bought it 'as is' with wheels out of quarter and blown motor. 
Vic also produced a picture of the removed motor which I have said is exactly the same as the motor from my one from the first version. 
I have the first version, Vic has the second version and you have the most recent version. 
What would be of interest is if the newest one had the same split axles with knurling and plastic gear that sometimes splits and whether the wheels are splined enough to resist going out of quarter. 
The bushing on the axles looks like it may be far better than the first version which was very basic.

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

andrew, axles are different, read back where you can see pictures...


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Yeah Greg, I was having another look at pics while you posted. 
The new axle and bushing looks to be quite chunky. I'm not sure what the second version looked like though.
The first version was made like a cheap toy.
We are missing Vic's picture to complete the series









Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been around the block many times in large scale, I KNOW most definetly I have the 0-4-0 switcher, NOT the NG Rogers as I had one and sold it to Shawn. I had the same 0-4-0 many years ago and sold it. This is my second switcher. 

Andrew, What do you want me to shoot the power picks? 

BTW I opened one of my HLW Mack chassis and it has virtually the identical motor in it. Same worms and spacing. So if AC poops on the motor I have that option ...but that would mean sacrificing one of my Macks ....errr...I would rather repower thr tender if it came down to that.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Vic, I have my picture of the first model wheels and axle bush, gear etc. on the first page of this thread. aceinspp has the latest one which shows the detached splined wheel and you can just make out the improved axle end and bushing from the outside. I have no idea what your version's axle end and bushing looks like although I'm sure plenty do. If you could take a picture it would be far easier for those not in the know to see some of the differences between the 3 versions pictured side by side. The subject matter gets a little incohesive after several pages of posts. i would still like to see the inside of the latest model aceinspp has too with the bottom cover taken off. 

The Mack has the same motor by Mabuchi number but is slightly wider spacing on the worms/wheelbase (only a few mm). 
So close you may not have to move the worm gears. If Aristo don't have the motor spare it may be worth asking if Hartland has just the motor as a spare. 

Andrew


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope this is what your looking for:


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Thanks Vic, Your one looks just the same as mine but are your wheels separate to the axles? 

Andrew


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey Vic, whatcha got to trade? 
I have the tenderless version that came from a starter set. 


I wicked water into the motor...I had black ants and added scotchbrite wheel scrubbers, worked great until I ran over wet track... 
Greg E mentioned new wheels so I ordered replacements for the sintered wheels and a new motor... some how I botched the job and it never ran again... 
The 0-4-0 was too modern and I replaced her with the Hartland 4-4-0 Jupiter .... so 

I want G24 Archbar trucks for a string of 35' flatcars .... Got any and what's a fair trade? 

John


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry John I doubt I have anything for trade, I know what few trucks I have are already spoken for on existing cars.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Dang it! Stil stuck with a sow's ear! 
Oh well... I guess I can ship it back to Aristo for repairs someday, they'll be around for like forever...... 

Hmmmm anybody else looking for a low milage classic; new motor, new tires...??? Doesn't run.... sucha deal! 

A suggestion for locking wheels to axle ... after you get quartered and set for Ga. drill along line between wheel and axle and insert a pin (18ga or bigger). That will keep it in place. 
If you have a good drill index use an undersized drill and tap pin into position. I'd use a long pin and trim to lenght after instaltion 

John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Us ol farts want a lot.. 
A/C that works ... 
Comfy seats.. 
Worn out shocks 
What shape is the paint in..you did not mention that! 
More that just kickin the tires and a new motor.. 
How many miles on the tranny....? 

Ooops wrong add. Oh well. 
Dirk


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

I just ordered the newer version of this loco at 40% from AC web site and will likely install a Zimo DCC with US docksider sound that I purchased over a year ago. I spent too much time and money on trying to upgrade the older version of this Switcher with AC Revo, Phoenix sound, and new circuit added for smoke unit, as described in the web link below. 

http://www.sepgrs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=168 

I was disappointed to have my upgraded older version stop running after approximately two hours at the Longwood Gardens garden railway display, while pulling just two Aristo-Craft Sierra passenger cars. The stoppage appears to have caused by the motor overheating and locking up, as it runs now, but with poor low speed operations. 

I will clean the wheels and then check for a cracked or broken wire on the motor to figure out why it runs a short time and then stops. 

Bryan


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By bdelmo on 04 Oct 2013 08:25 AM 


I was disappointed to have my upgraded older version stop running after approximately two hours at the Longwood Gardens garden railway display, while pulling just two Aristo-Craft Sierra passenger cars. The stoppage appears to have caused by the motor overheating and locking up, as it runs now, but with poor low speed operations. 

I will clean the wheels and then check for a cracked or broken wire on the motor to figure out why it runs a short time and then stops. 

Bryan 



Wait a minute. You didn't run it for two hours continuously, did you?
Oh, dear.
That's the maximum life expectancy, plus or minus three minutes.
Most folks who have these who claim they run fabulously only run them for four minutes at a time....and they last for years that way. 

TOC, TFPIC


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with TOC on this one. There is no such thing as an upgraded earlier version. A good friend of mine had one of these and for every hour he ran it, I spent two hours machining off another layer of pitting of those things they called wheels. My advice would be to cancel that recent order and put that Zimo decoder into something worthwhile. 

Keith


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

For the record mine ran fine, bought 2004, except for the black crud generated on the track ... easy to see on steel. Ran for hours straight on the original oval pulling 2 sierras. If anybody had asked I would have recommended it based on my limited experience. 

I accidentally killed mine with a combination of black ants, scothbrite wipers and water ... in that order. 

Dirk, she's pristine on the outside... and I replced the motor and wheels. 

John


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well so far my new one has run 5hrs straight with out issues pulling a 40ft box,40ft flat and one AC tank car plus the bobber caboose. It has a total of 25 hrs on it so far. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 04 Oct 2013 03:39 PM 
Well so far my new one has run 5hrs straight with out issues pulling a 40ft box,40ft flat and one AC tank car plus the bobber caboose. It has a total of 25 hrs on it so far. Later RJD 
Okay, RJ. Do we have to decipher this?
Is it a form of Polkspeak?
Reading your statement carefully, one sees this new/old 0-4-0 has " a total of 25 hrs on it so far ". However, that follows a statement that " my new one has run 5hrs straight with out issues ".

Careful analysis would indicate the first 20 hours were not so flawless. I wonder, aloud, what non-reported issues there were that affected the first 20 hours of operation?

TOC


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Wow that's a stretch... 
I get; I've run it several times for a couple of hours as my schedule allows. Just got an opportunity for a 5 hour run, all's good. 25 hrs total. 

Hmmm what's he hiding?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder about you folks some times I think you over think things just to post. Runs great and as I said total run time 25 hrs not continuous Da. Later RJD


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 04 Oct 2013 10:41 AM 
I agree with TOC on this one. There is no such thing as an upgraded earlier version. A good friend of mine had one of these and for every hour he ran it, I spent two hours machining off another layer of pitting of those things they called wheels. My advice would be to cancel that recent order and put that Zimo decoder into something worthwhile. 

Keith There was an improved early version with (nickel?) plating on the wheels. I think everything else was the same though, including the integral wheel/half axles and thin wheel bearing/pick-up.

Andrew


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

JUST TO POST??? MMMMMMMMMMM MAKES ME WONDER, PROJECTING YOUR THOUGHTS???????????


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Nick Jr on 12 Oct 2013 09:07 AM 
JUST TO POST??? MMMMMMMMMMM MAKES ME WONDER, PROJECTING YOUR THOUGHTS??????????? 
When some folks are used to being told what to think, to have someone read a post and actually have a thought about it is so foreign to them, it causes all sorts of sparks inside their skulls as the atrophied bran rotates at high speed.
You didn't know that?


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

No I did not, that explains many posts. Thank you for enlightening me.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 13 Oct 2013 10:26 PM 
Posted By Nick Jr on 12 Oct 2013 09:07 AM 
JUST TO POST??? MMMMMMMMMMM MAKES ME WONDER, PROJECTING YOUR THOUGHTS??????????? 
When some folks are used to being told what to think, to have someone read a post and actually have a thought about it is so foreign to them, it causes all sorts of sparks inside their skulls as the *atrophied bran* rotates at high speed.
You didn't know that?

Atrophied bran? Hmm, does that keep the digestion regular?

Andrew


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Scheduled Delivery: 
Tuesday, 10/15/2013, By End of Day 

2 each PRR & ATSF 0-4-0's 

This time next year the only thing about the 0-4-0's that will matter will be who missed out on the chance to buy them at $115.00 vs those happily running them on their layouts of Aristo track with Aristo power supplies and Aristo Revolutions. 

In the end they are just toys to be purchased or ignored at little more than the cost of a tank of gas.

Last week a tank of gas in my old Suburban lasted about 5 hours to and from the lake. Another tank of gas in the old boat also lasted about 5 hours. The motel/lodge cost about as much as a tank of gas per night.

A new 0-4-0 will last at least 5 hours and I don't have to leave home to enjoy it. 

Jerry


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By Garratt on 14 Oct 2013 04:17 AM 
Posted By Curmudgeon on 13 Oct 2013 10:26 PM 
Posted By Nick Jr on 12 Oct 2013 09:07 AM 
JUST TO POST??? MMMMMMMMMMM MAKES ME WONDER, PROJECTING YOUR THOUGHTS??????????? 
When some folks are used to being told what to think, to have someone read a post and actually have a thought about it is so foreign to them, it causes all sorts of sparks inside their skulls as the *atrophied bran* rotates at high speed.
You didn't know that?

Atrophied bran? Hmm, does that keep the digestion regular?

Andrew 

Asamatteroffact. Without full thought as cranial functionality, what we usually end up with the the automatic ejection from the south end of the digestive tract.
Stick around.
We'll probably learn new things as the implosion continues.


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

See my posting under Sound Systems for my questions on selection of Sound File for Aristo-Craft A5 Switcher.


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