# Daylight cars for gs4



## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

How much and what manufactures?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

P1987 

1:32 - MTH plastic short cars, generic cars with Daylight paint 
1:32 - Accucraft brass correct length, correct specific car types and numbers 
1:29 - USAT extruded AL, generic cars with Daylight paint 

Prices... Google the stuff yourself... check Charles Ro Supply, TrainWorld, Evilbay; prices all over the map. Good luck finding Accucraft cars for less than $800-$850 each


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## Police1987 (Jun 16, 2012)

Why are they so much. There just cars.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Police1987 on 06 Aug 2012 05:47 PM 
Why are they so much. There just cars. 

And a Ferrari is just a car. 
You are pretty vauge in your question. Do you own a GS4. What do you own if so? Do you want plastic aluminum or brass? Do you want correct cars in 1:32 or do you want orange cars that are painted to look like a daylight coach?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

P1987 

It has become clear to me that: 

a] either you have exactly zero knowledge of large scale in general and live steam in particular 
b] you are just some clown trying to see how much you can pull our chains until we completely ignore you 
c] you are about 12 years old and don't want to own up to it because you think you will be dismissed and ignored. 

Pick ONE [or maybe TWO]. 

You could help us a lot by giving us some personal background. Young people are welcome here. People who just keep asking questions that do not demonstrate any thought eventually get ignored. This is advice, NOT a personal attack. 



Accucraft cars cost a lot of money because: 
a] they were hand built brass models of specific cars done with reasonable accuracy 
b] they had full interiors and lighting 
c] they were produced in a small production run. 

The original cost was roughly $650 per car MSRP, about the same as high quality 0 scale brass passenger cars, and about 20% more than the same car in H0 brass. So guess what.. in the grand scheme of things they are quite reasonable in price. If these cars had been done in the UK or Europe they would have cost about $1600 EACH.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Police1987 on 06 Aug 2012 05:47 PM 
Why are they so much. There just cars. 
Please define 'so much'?
Maybe you are looking for one of Jim's "wood blocks with thread spools for wheels and paper clips for couplers"
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada 
p.s. Thank you Jim for expressing some of my thoughts about Police1987.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Finding Accucraft Gauge 1 brass Daylight cars new or used is nearly impossible IMO; I watched eBay and other sources for several years to no avail, I gave up and the nearly 20K or so price tag for a string of the brass Daylight models was perplexing anyway… And since nothing seemed to be available that would compliment my Daylight GS-4 I sold it. Of course six months or so later a consist of Daylight cars were offered on eBay individually (if I recall correctly this was about a year ago)..... If memory serves me the least expensive car sold for around $600.00 on eBay. 

Me thinks many of us modelers won’t give up our toys until such time you pry em from our lifeless hands… 
The Accucraft Daylight cars are highly collectible IMO, accordingly the perceived value of said cars brings top dollar if and when they become available. The Doctor alludes to the Daylight cars originally selling for $650.00 or so, supply and demand often dictates value. It's comforting to recognize that some of our trains actually appreciate in value....... 

I don’t know the numbers but Accucraft produced a limited run of said cars and more likely than not produced twice or thrice as many Daylight GS-4’s initially, recently a second run of GS-4’s was released. Perhaps a second run of cars is on the horizon!

I didn’t care for the USAT’s and or MTH offerings when coupled up to my GS-4, it simply wasn’t right IMO.

Michael


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Didn't Aster produce a run of Daylight cars to go with _their_ GS4? At least I remember seing a set in a beautiful wooden carrying case along with an Aster Daylight & Tender. Was it a custom production? This was about 10 years ago or so -- at the San Diego Convention. I remember that the owner was also a car collector, and somebody was trying to do a deal for the set -- offering an Alfa Romeo plus some amount of cash.

That's when I began to wonder if I was in the wrong hobby!


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Custom Model Products is offering a ten car Accucraft Daylight set of passenger cars for $18,000 so that means that the cars are now going for $1,800 each! Whenever supply and demand don't match, something happens to the price. Here, demand is much greater than supply -- hence the price increase. 

For those looking for MTH 60 foot Daylight cars, CMP supposedly has them too -- a 5 car set (smooth sided) for $1,250 or $250 per car. They originally sold for $150 per car but MTH has discontinued their 1/32nd scale line. 

So, you pay the going rate or pull some cheap freight cars instead. 

Ross Schlabach


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Gary Woolard on 06 Aug 2012 09:29 PM 
Didn't Aster produce a run of Daylight cars to go with _their_ GS4? At least I remember seing a set in a beautiful wooden carrying case along with an Aster Daylight & Tender. Was it a custom production? This was about 10 years ago or so -- at the San Diego Convention. I remember that the owner was also a car collector, and somebody was trying to do a deal for the set -- offering an Alfa Romeo plus some amount of cash.

That's when I began to wonder if I was in the wrong hobby!









Gary,
Aster never produced any Daylight cars as far as I know.
I did build Daylight sets, starting in 1996, and some of the early sets I supplied in wooden carrying cases, 5 cars per case.
Could have been one of my sets, but I don't think that they would be worth an Alfa.
Lee Barrett also had some 'chair' cars built by the company that became Accucraft, but never complete sets.
There are perhaps others who have made 'custom' sets of cars. 
I don't remember when the Accucraft sets came out, probably 2006, so that's probably not what you saw.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada 
p.s. WRONG hobby? It's what you make it for yourself!


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Ross, MTH modeled all 72 ft cars. ( correct for some roads )


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

No one has mentioned the AristoCraft Daylight cars that I saw. These are probably about the cheapest Daylight cars you will find, but I don't think they are currently in production so you may have to hunt for them.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Actually Jeff, we are both wrong -- but you are closer to the right number. The box says each car is a model of a 70 foot car, and when I measured one, they did measure out at 70 feet -- not counting the diaphragms. So I stand corrected. But when you see them next to 80 foot cars, they still seem short. But short, long, or somewhere in between, it's almost impossible to find them. 

Ross Schlabach


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Toddalin, the Aristocraft cars are for a different scale: 1/29th scale. All of the options we were previously discussing were 1/32nd scale. 

Ross Schlabach


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 07 Aug 2012 05:36 PM 
No one has mentioned the AristoCraft Daylight cars that I saw. These are probably about the cheapest Daylight cars you will find, but I don't think they are currently in production so you may have to hunt for them.



Toddalin,
The Aristo cars are heavyweights, painted in Daylight colours.
The real Daylight train never comprised of heavyweights, they were all a very special 10 car set of lightweight streamlined cars built in 1937 to match the Daylight GS-2 locos.
As the years went by different cars were built to replace others, and the consist would grow to 12, 14, 16 and even more cars.
Good try though.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Here is an Accucraft GS-4 with a complete Accucraft 18 car Morning Daylight running up the grade on the IE&W Ry. And yes, the loco will pull all 200 pounds of cars, thanks to ball bearing wheels.

It took a couple of horse trades and too much money for the extra two sets of articulated chair cars, but after about 10 months I assembled the complete consist.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Accuracy is fine, but he's looking at budget and none of that may matter to him if he can't afford them. Maybe it's the color and/or longer lengths he's really looking for and prototypical appearance and accuracy to scale is not a high priority. There are certainly plenty of people like that in the hobby, and room for more.

This is an option that he may be able to afford and maybe will bring someone into the hobby. Other 1:29s were also mentioned.


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## Reg Stocking (Sep 29, 2010)

Actually SP painted a few earlier cars in Daylight livery. They appeared most frequently in the San Joaquin Daylight and rarely in the Coast Daylight. They were diners, taverns, and headend equipment. A 60' Harriman combine was used on the part of the San Joaquin detached at Lathrop and run up to Sacramento; it looked really appropriate behind the Atlantic with cab and Vanderbilt tended painted Daylight.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

toddalin / Reg 

P1987 on one of the other threads specifically said he was interested in 1:32 because of detail and accuracy. The David Leech smooth sided Daylight cars and the Accucraft corrugated cars are the closest to meeting his criteria. 

Regarding the San Joaquin Daylight, there have been several videos of Alan Redeker's version assembled from a variety of 1:29 cars posted in the live steam forum over the last couple of years, mostly running on my layout. He has done a great job of lowering the USAT and Aristo cars so they look quite presentable behind a 50-50 GS-4 or a cab forward, sometimes with Black Widow F unit helpers. 

Maybe if the SP Pacific project comes through, the Atlantic will follow. I would probably add one to my SP roster.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

To add to the previous post:

here is a link to a video of Alan's complete San Joaquin Daylight train ==> San Joaquin Daylight on the IE&W Ry

Enjoy


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 07 Aug 2012 07:14 PM 
toddalin / Reg 

P1987 on one of the other threads specifically said he was interested in 1:32 because of detail and accuracy. The David Leech smooth sided Daylight cars and the Accucraft corrugated cars are the closest to meeting his criteria. 

Jim,
Just a large correction.
My cars were CORRUGATED too, not smooth sided.
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

David Leech Daylight cars are corrugated, not smooth sided.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry David I was quick to jump in but you had already answered.


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

and very handsome too 

jim


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I happen to own a rarity that could be the starting point for Sir P1987 Dream Train aka just cars... 
There wasn't even a pic at the manufacture's website... 

On the penny pinching side of scale .... I have an Aristocraft Sierra Obs in Daylight colors. What could be more stylish than a rake of Sierras ? Oh sure they're 1:24, but of smaller cars.... and if you squint just right.... 

John


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 09 Sep 2012 10:54 AM 
I happen to own a rarity that could be the starting point for Sir P1987 Dream Train aka just cars... 
There wasn't even a pic at the manufacture's website... 

On the penny pinching side of scale .... I have an Aristocraft Sierra Obs in Daylight colors. What could be more stylish than a rake of Sierras ? Oh sure they're 1:24, but of smaller cars.... and if you squint just right.... 

John John


Maybe one could look cross eyed at a set of Aristocraft Heavyweights....but not Sierra

The GS4 need the rake of coaches it was designed to pull....then again if you can run what you wish, its your locomotive (pennies....)


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I guess I should have mumbled a word or two.... my tongue was firmly planted in cheek. 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I got it, pretty funny... it was so far off it had to be a joke in my mind.... 

On the heavyweights, I guess the daylight scheme comes up as #2 after Santa Fe as to manufacturers using road names on rolling stock that never had that road name... 

By the way police has not posted in 2 weeks, so all of this may be academic... 24 August was his last post 

Greg


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, don't remind him.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

By the way police has not posted in 2 weeks, so all of this may be academic... 24 August was his last post 

Greg 
That sort of thing happens when you have to go back to middle school...Heh. Actually he was removed from the site.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg--let sleeping dogs lie. Let's enjoy the site getting back to normal. 

Larry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey, it wasn't me that kept responding, or needs to be chided. 

Greg


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## Jim Overland (Jan 3, 2008)

after five years good coaches work out well on a cost per mile basis 

On to Stavers!


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## BrentGroth (Dec 27, 2007)

I've got a dozen or so USA trains Daylight passenger cars, new in the box, for sale, anyone interested?
[email protected]
PS I just paid $17,600.00 for a set of Accucarft cars. Not rich, just crazy! But, I was told I was crazy when I paid $5,000 for that 1955 Mercedes Gullwing in 1971.


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## BrentGroth (Dec 27, 2007)

Dr.Rivit, 
I enjoy watching your 18 car set on u-tube, thanks. Question; you state you had to add two setsof articualted cars, if you started with a 16 car set, you would have 20 cars. If you started with a 10 car set, you would only have had 14 cars. I'm sorry for being picky, but straighten me out please! 
[email protected]


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Brent, 
Could it be that he started with 14, and added the two sets of articulated coaches to make 18? 
Just a theory. 
Welcome to MLS, and to the world of Daylights. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Brent 

You are right, ONLY ONE extra. 

I started with a 10 car set that I got from Walt at CMP. Shortly thereafter my wife acquired a complete 18 car Morning Daylight set from Kato in N scale. After only a few weeks I started to suffer from "train length envy" because she had the WHOLE train, and I did not. So I began searching for more cars. Walt at CMP had a couple of separate articulated chair car sets, but wanted significant $$$ for them, so I passed on them and kept searching. A few months later Walt posted a full 16 car set on the CMP site. I tried to get him to just send the additional cars and pay the difference, but that did not work out. So... I found a buyer for the 10 cars set and bought what was SUPPOSED to be a 16 car set [all serial numbers matched]. Unfortunately Walt had a second 10 car set and they only looked at the car numbers when pulling them from the shelves, so I have a split grouping anyway. Walt had one extra articulated chair car set left and I purchased it at that time. My first 10 car set has been sold a second time. 

The 10 car sets were sold to be used with the live steam GS-4 because Accucraft felt that was the limit of what their engine could pull. The 16 car sets were designed to run with the electric version of the GS-4 and had a motor mounted to one truck along with extra weight in both the front truck of the baggage/chair and the rear truck of the parlor/observation. These were necessary as the locomotive did not have enough traction to pull the entire train. I removed them as they were just dead weight behind live steam. And, as has been shown on several videos, my Accucraft live steam loco will pull the full 18 cars up my 0.6% grade.


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## BrentGroth (Dec 27, 2007)

Jim, 
Thanks for the answer, that was driving me nuts as I kept doing the math and running out of fingers. I often thought I should have bought that articulated pair from Walt. I have a Mercedes shop that deals with some of the classics. I have found when a part you need is available, grab it. If you don't, there is a curse placed on you that you will never get the chance again. (L-O-L) Do you still have the two motors? I sure could use them.
Brent
(435) 714-2369


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## BrentGroth (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks David,
Your name first came up when Dan Pantages visited my Mercedes shop about a year ago. He told me of your Daylight cars, but I've never seen any, but hope to. It's a real honor to meet you, even if it's a cyber meeting. By the way the other day my banker wanted to know my financial goal. Why did he laugh when I told him "to buy Union Pacific?"
Brent


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Brent, you'll see them this coming summer when I'm in your area.


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## BrentGroth (Dec 27, 2007)

Dan, 
I look forward to it. Please let me know in advance when the steam-up is going to happen. 
Brent


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## Muzzlez (Apr 23, 2009)

I must have got one heck of a deal from St. Aubins on the Accucraft 16 car daylight set. I had preordered the steam engine and passenger cars in April 2001. The steam engine arrived in the fall of 2002 and a year later the passenger cars arrived. Every time I would go into St. Aubins I would ask Pat when the steam engine and passenger cars were arriving. I believe he sold me the first set of passenger cars to arrive at the store to shut me up. Monday Oct 6, 2003 I drove to St. Aubins to pick up the passenger cars. It took every inch to get all 16 boxes into my Ford Explorer. My total cost without sales tax for the 16 car set was $6,989.99.


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## BrentGroth (Dec 27, 2007)

Muzzlez, 
That's a super deal, even for the 2003 dollar. the original price sheet lists the 10 car set at $6,300.00, plus an additional $650.00 each per additional car. That's $10,200.00 for 16 cars back then. You did great. As for todays prices, gas was how much then? Crazy world, huh? 

I'd like to take a minute to thank ALL OF YOU who have contacted this novice and been so kind to tollorate someone who's total contact with running live steam was a Southern Pacific loco that fit between 4' 8 1/2" rails. I've been working on some Accucraft units and one very patient and generious person who deserves a special nod is Cliff at Accucraft. He has gone way beyond his job description to help. Thanks Cliff.


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