# A "hello" and first question.



## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Hello everyone. I figured the "Beginners" forum was the place to stop by first and introduce myself. I just got into O-gauge last year when I bought a Lionel set for my grandsons. When I was a teenager, I had a small HO layout that I'd customized and really enjoyed for several years. Then came adulthood and I drifted into all the "other stuff" of life. I'm 56 now and just getting back into trains (largely due to my grandson's enthusiasm for anything trains). When they are visiting us, it is almost a daily trip down to the local RR track to see a CSX train go by and I love it too!

Anyway, I have always loved Garden-scale too and am thinking of setting up a layout in the backyard for the grandkids to enjoy. I'm leaning toward MTH 1:32 scale and have mined lots of information (right here) about 1:29 through 1:32, battery/track power, etc. My question is related to MTH 1:32 running on battery power. I've read that MTH is supposed to run on both track power or battery, but haven't been able to clearly see how MTH does that one for their engines. I see that Aristo has the power plug exiting the rear of the engine for battery power. Does MTH do it the same way? I've crawled around the MTH website and couldn't seem to get a visual on how they connect to a battery.


Thanks for sharing all the knowledge...looks to be a great site too.

Rick


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Pleased to meet you. 

Sorry, I don't know anything about MTH, but welcome to the mob anyhow.


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Rick

Welcome to the Geezer Gauge world...









There have been several posting of MTH's with DCS stuffed into boxcars/pass with Battery on board.

Here is one link

I am guilty of doing two conversions. I mounted a DPDT switch on the loco frame to allow Track/Battery.
I then added an Aristo type 2 pin connector on the tail of the loco.....ENJOY......
And you get to 'borrow' your Grand Kids R/C car battery's.......


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Unlike, say, Aristocraft, MTH makes no provisions for battery power out of the box--battery plugs or track power disconnects. Also MTH has its own proprietary operating system--and excellent system, but it's all MTH. The only way to get MTH's specific sound and control features with battery power is to, as mentioned, put their track interface unit in a boxcar with the batteries. Then you can disconnect the track power pickups and route the battery power leads to the track power leads.


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Beautiful...thanks guys for the welcome. Also, many thanks for that link and photos of how it is done on MTH. An excellent example of "where there's a will there's a way". I had been to RayMans website and somehow missed that whole section on MTH control. What a fantastic site by the way and full of useful information.

Rick


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

I hear ya...

Seems no matter which direction I go (1:32 or 1:29), on battery I'm gonna be installing someone's control board into a boxcar or cars. I guess it would be better to have a couple of boxcars (one for the MTU and another for the batteries) so that I only had to invest in one MTU, but could change out the battery car when drained. I could also just revert to track power and bypass the additional equipment/labor required to do battery ops. I truly love the whole concept of battery operation though. I've rode the 1:32/1:29 fence enough that I have "split brain syndrome"...and I'm still infected.









Rick


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Dieselguy on 29 Apr 2010 07:49 AM 
Beautiful...thanks guys for the welcome. Also, many thanks for that link and photos of how it is done on MTH. An excellent example of "where there's a will there's a way". I had been to RayMans website and somehow missed that whole section on MTH control. What a fantastic site by the way and full of useful information.

Rick 


Yep Rayman, is the guy to go to on anything MTH related he is the guru of that system!! And when you do venture into MTH look at the Triplex for your 1st engine. Amazing and then of course the Big Boy and the Challenger. Regal 



Southern Pacific Daylight #4449


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome Rick. Personally I don't run any MTH (I'm all Bachmann & USA) but I have a buddy that swears by them. I'm certain you'll finad all the info you need and more here. Welcome to the family.. 

Dave.


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi there Regal and Dave...thanks for the welcomes. 

There are so many engines that I would like to have in G that I hardly know where to begin or stop. I'm like most people and really love the Big Boy, Challengers, etc. I have seen that Triplex too and it's a beauty. If I do go MTH, my first engine will likely be the Dash-8 Norfolk Southern. In the Arsitocraft or USA Train lines, I'm drawn to so many of their subjects that I'd have to list just about all of them. Diesel trains of just about any era are my first loves, but there are many Steam engines that would be perfectly welcome on my layout. 

Rick


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Welcome to the forum, Lots of info here just look at the amount threads posted on the subject. Ray is correct about the Geezers too, Some very craby ones to boot. Id stick with track power to start then you can move on from there if you choose to. Ray Manley has converted a bunch of USA and Aristo locos for me and does a fantastic job of it to boot. MTH system is great and it will run fine on just plain old DC power pack and nothing else. Take a look at my SD-70s he converted for me, then look at the rest of my MTH conversions on youtube. Good luck and enjoy your trains.




And my Pacific with MTH smoke all running on plain old track power.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I see have recieved some exalent anwers so I will just welcome you to mls 

WELCOME TO MLS FROM THE NEW RIVER &WESTERN RR.


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## Ron Senek (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick watch out for the Geeshers as there are more of us. Ha


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Nice videos there Nick and thanks for the reply. I'd landed upon some of your stuff via a YouTube search before. 

Hey John and thanks for the welcome. I really like this site and it is very active with loads of good content. I'm also a member over at the OGR Forum for O-Gauge and it is a great resource for that scale. 

I'm heading back into the "knowledge pool" here to soak up some more of what you folks have already shared... 

Rick


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Ron Senek on 29 Apr 2010 02:59 PM 
Nick watch out for the Geeshers as there are more of us. Ha 

Just kiddin Ron







i know i know you guys out # me.............







In all honesty if it werent for you guys, i wouldnt know what what i do so Kudos you SLIGHTLY older than me fellos........And i didnt start it, Ray did its all his fault. I can get in enough trouble all by myself i dont need Rays help.







HE HE HE


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## Polaris1 (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm a 15 year MTH O Gauger moving in to G gage. Selecting MTH G gage equipment is a natural because I have a ton of MTH control equipment...... Very easily used on G gage with all the inherent MTH Features built into G gage MTH Engines.... The key point is MTH G engines run on either AC or DC power(AC type transformer or DC Power pack). MTH engines do not automatically run on self contained DC Battery Power unless you start modifying a lot of things. Those getting into G gage early did not have the MTH option then.... Those getting in to G gage now can select MTH Power& instantly have a lot of fancy RR Engine features for the Cost of MTH products. My only MTH concern is separating out the Good MTH pullers from the weak ones... Diesels are normally good, some steamers do spin wheels easily... 1/32 is a hair smaller than 1/29 etc.... Couplers mixing is the next new G headache..... However, do not discount the advantages of buying Engine features (MTH) vs buying & modifying other engine brands..... Just Build, buy, & run....... then Decorate... Look up Paul Race & curved ladder roadbed fabrication....

Welcome to 45 mm RRing!!!!!!!


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

As I don't have any advice on MTH products, I'll just say welcome to MLS Rick!

Matt


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm a steam nut, so I just put the battery and receiver in the tender. 'Course, I only have 2 locos that I use.


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Thank-you Polaris1 and Matt for the greetings. To your points Polaris, since I already have O-gauge Lionel running on Lionel Legacy control, I saw going with MTH for G-scale as a good way to add the DCS control capability to my O-gauge setup. If (down the road) I get an MTH O-gauge engine, then I will already have the DCS remote (from the G-scale setup) that can do double duty. MTH makes some many great engines in O that I know at some point I will add some of their products. So, going with MTH in G serves capability in both G & O for me if that makes sense. 

My only concern about MTH in G is the limited rolling stock selection versus what is available in 1:29 scale. It is not that MTH hasn't made much rolling stock either. Looking back several years I can see that they have turned out a fair amount of product had you been in MTH G since the beginning. It is just that a lot of that earlier rolling stock is no longer available at most dealers and they carry the more recent stock which gives the impression of there being a limited selection. But I have balanced that concern with the understanding that (at this point) I'm not building a large set of rolling stock in G, so what is out there will suit me for now. 

Thanks to everyone for all the thoughts and input and especially the friendly welcomes. 

Rick


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Quite a bit of MTH rolling stock on ebay. I noticed that yesterday.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agonized about 1:32 vs. 1:29.... MTH had not made their large stuff at the time, so the extra cost of brass in 1:32 and limited products and the "wow" factor drove me to 1:29. 

Today, the selection of locos from MTH is great, and the control system is evolving towards DCC compatibility. I would be really on the fence if I had to start over today. 

I'd probably go 1:32. There's other rolling stock in 1:32 than MTH and not all is super expensive. (more expensive in general than 1:29, but hey, it's MY hobby!) 

Regards, Greg


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Greg,

You have described where I have been for awhile now...struggling between 1:29 and 1:32.


I found a few pieces here and there of 1:32 rolling stock (other than MTH's products) at these places:


Sunset Valley Railroad

Aster Hobby 

Accucraft

Understanding that some of those manufacturers products above are well...let's say "expensive" and may not appeal to the average person, have I missed any of the 1:32 scale rolling stock out there?

Rick


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

MDC rolling stock is in 1:32, I believe--you can still find it on ebay, though the company is out of business. And the AMS branch of Accucraft is 1:32. 

Regarding 1:29 vs 1:32: I feel your pain. Like a lot of people, I started with LGB--my son was given a bunch of starter sets by his grandfather. Mostly LGB and one Bachmann Big Hauler. We wanted an American standard gage look, and there's Aristocraft, cheap and readily available, and USAT. And it's true, they fit better with LGB stuff at 1:29. 1:29 is noticeably smaller than 1:24, but 1:32 is WAY smaller. You can much more plausibly fake a 1:24 house, figure or vehicle to go with 1:29 than you can with 1:32: MTH's 1:32 figures are just too small and look ridiculous on a 1:24 structure. 1:32 pretty much requires you to scratchbuild everything. And 1:29 "pops" visually in a way that 1:32 doesn't. MTH seemed prohibitively expensive when we were starting out and just running on straight DC. 

Still, if I were handed a sack of money and started over, I'd go with code 250 rail and 1:32. I'd run DCC and also MTH's system, and I'd be committing to scratchbuilding any structures and most rolling stock. But there would still be advantages: 1:32 looks marginally better on tighter curves, and 1:32 structures don't have to be quite as big in the garden


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## RailCat (Apr 10, 2009)

If I remember correctly, The Piko line uses the MDC tooling in some of their products. 

-Scott


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Thank-you for the additional info about MDC. I checked it out on eBay and there are still some pieces available in G for sale.

One thing I tried to do was compare the cost of going with an MTH 1:32 Diesel engine vs a Diesel engine selection from Aristocraft. I was using MTH's Dash-8 and Aristo's Dash-9 as the example (and the best Dealer price I could source on the net for both). As you guys already know, G-scale (other than MTH) doesn't come with sound or remote control capability built-in to the product. Those are things I desire, so I had to add the components to the Aristo to bring it into a similar level of the MTH engine. To bring the Aristo up to similar functions of the MTH, my calculation showed roughly a $200 larger investment in Aristo vs MTH. Included in the cost comparison were the control box's, sound cards, remote, etc. That delta in cost did not include my own labor to configure/add these things to the Aristo engine. So, from a engine cost and all all the things I wanted to add perspective, the MTH product came up as less cost per engine. That is not necessarily the end-all to making decisions for model RR'ing, but I was curious if there was any significant difference in costs (MTH to Aristo). I know there are many other things that are part of the cost to setup a garden RR, so I just focused on the base engines, sound and control of same for my comparison. For my garden layout, I don't plan to have structures, buildings and such. I just want it to run as if out in the open away from industry or cities, but I'd likely make my own buildings anyway if I went that route.


I've often read about the "larger presence" factor of 1:29 vs 1:32 and have to confess I'm a "bigger the better" is goodness kind of guy, so I'd be drawn to that too. I also truly like the look of many of the 1:29 engines and especially the rolling stock. So there-in lies the issue...which one to select (or both).









Rick


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks Scott for the Piko reference. I checked it out on eBay too and all the products I saw were simply referred to as "G-scale". Do you know what scale the Piko G products represents? 

Rick


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Rick, 
Most all the major companies have web sites, just google it and look through their catalogs. Helps to note prices when there and on evilbay.... 
If you know what you want, you'll have a better search, than browsing through the bay. 

John


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi John, 

I should have mentioned that I do have the major mfg sites bookmarked and have been over most of them as I looked into 1:32 and 1:29. Most of the mfg sites are very descriptive about what scale they offer and I did visit the Piko site. I just couldn't really tell much about scale there and some of it was in German even though I'd selected the English portal entry. 

I actually don't spend much time on eBay and don't buy much product there. Whenever I can, I take my business to a LHS or an internet reseller where I can ask questions and send business their way. 

Rick


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Märklin Maxi (trains) and Preiser(figures) are 1:32. 
but both are somewhat pricey...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

On the price difference between MTH and Aristo, if you compare Aristo using a QSI which plugs in in about 5 minutes, and it adds $150 to the cost of the loco, you will find Aristo is lower cost on all locos. 

Now, that's not saying there is not a difference in workmanship, quality, reliability. (There is in my opinion) 

Just addressing the pure cost issue per loco. 

In the MTH system and comparing DCC, the cost of the "system" becomes not a factor after about 4 locos... it's the cost per loco you want to look at, the big picture. 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I concur with Greg E. on this one Aristo is simple easy/peasey on the installation of a QSI/G-wire in them, BUT if you only purchase one engine in MTH go with the Triplex. Simply Amazing it is. I also have now delved into the USA world by mu'ing my Pa/Pb engine set and putting all of the QSI/G-wire batteries/charging jack and speaker system from 1 to 1 scale sound, into a USA baggage car for battery and rc on the usa setup. They have NOT yet come with their pnp in engines yet, so involves a bit more on installation. You can view my taking all the internal (gut's) out of my Bachmann boxcar that I use either battery only, or now battery and rc with the QSI/G-wire right into the boxcar, and then you don't have to have a seperate decoder for each engine which saves alot of money. You can have one for diesel, and one for steam, and if you purchase the QSI programmer you can program your boxcar to whatever sound you will be running the most or vary it. Regal


YouTube - 7485jerry's Channel Here is the link to see what I did on the USA setup if you like. It is a two part video of the most recent video's there!!


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi fellas. I really appreciate all the experience and suggestions that you all are sharing.

Just to share with you how I arrived at the costs in my comparison of the MTH Dash-8 and the Aristo Dash9, here's the data:

MTH Dash-8 base engine cost = $369.95
On board receiver included (no additional cost)
On board sound controller included (no additional cost)
On board engine speed control included (no additional cost) 

Total cost for the Dash-8 engine = $369.95 


Aristocraft Dash-9 base engine cost = $334.99
Aristocraft CRE57002 - Train Engineer Revolution 2.4 Ghz Receiver = $79.99

QSIAristo-D - QSI PC PnP Diesel Snd Dcdr Multi-Mode DCC capable = $149.99
Total cost for the Dash-9 engine = $564.97

Delta between MTH and Aristo = $195.02


Am I looking at this correctly to enable at least similar functionality between the 2 engines? 


Rick


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Rick, 
Gotcha. 

What does Dieselguy think about all these guys suggesting an impractable steam loco....? for you to purchase? 
Me thinks it's a bit cheeky! lol 

John


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

John,

Hehe...I'm OK with it. I just chose "Dieselguy" because I drive a Ford F350 Diesel truck and do love Diesel train engines. But I'm a train lover of all kinds and will have steam in my collection too (at least a Big Boy or a Challenger).


Havin' fun...









Rick


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick, I think that you left some boards out if you power via the TE as you still need a smoke board and a light board to be comparable with MTH..at a cost of like another $100.00 and I don't know but you probably need that capacitor board as well?? I don' know as I'm heavily biased towards MTH DCS PS2 and all that it has to offer as no other manufacturer can touch it. Though I heard that QSI is going to be more "toy like" since they're going to start using "tower talk"..Like what MTH & Lionel has had for over 15 years now









Here's a short video that has the PS2 features that no other manufacturer has..in sync smoke & remote proto-couplers


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## Dieselguy (Apr 29, 2010)

Good points Chuck. Even with adding the things that can be added to an Aristo or USA Train, there are still things that MTH builds-in as standard (which keeps it from being "apples to apples"). So it seems that the cost difference at an engine level cost comparison is more than the $200 difference I was calculating. Again, I don't challenge anyone's rationale for the direction they choose to go because these things are individual decisions that we all make for our own reasons. Each direction has it's own strengths and appeal from what I can tell. I did the whole cost analysis thing just to see how things stacked up, but left open the opportunity to go either direction.

I liked your video by the way and do love the MTH features, sound, etc that they build into the product!

Rick


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