# USA Engines - What decoders work?



## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All,

It seems that the primary decoder that is recommended for the USA series of engines is the NCE D808, however I was wondering if anyone has had success with any other decoders put into them? Thanks


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

At Train-Li we use the Zimo MX690 series with programmable sound. 

We have done PA/PB with pulsing smoke, Big boy with 2 decoders to get 2 chuff sounds, Hudson, plus smaller diesels with no problem. 

These decoders have back emf sensing to lower chuff volume when coasting and increase volume under load as well as doing the same for controlling the usa trains smoke units. 

Smoke wisp at idle, and then lots of smoke on acceleration, then mild when coasting.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By rreiffer on 28 Mar 2011 06:48 PM 
All,

It seems that the primary decoder that is recommended for the USA series of engines is the NCE D808, however I was wondering if anyone has had success with any other decoders put into them? Thanks



You need to check the current draw of the specific USA-Trains engine that you want to convert to DCC.

As far as I know, only the old USA-Trains engines draw so much current that you need a NCE D808 decoder, the newer ones will be fine with any Large Scale 3-amp decoder.

If you do need a very high current one, one alternative to NCE is a Heller decoder from Germany. They make a 10-amp (steady state) decoder which is essentially a high current Zimo decoder - so it has the great Zimo decoder running characteristics but with a 10 amp output.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I haven't come across any engine where I needed a 10A decoder. Even the USA Trains Big Boy didn't have a stall current >5A. However, in order to achieve to independant chuffs we utilized to sound decoders that were aloowed to run in and out of synch, both feeding a speaker each for the more realistic sound experience.

The new generation of ZIMO decoders MX695 has many new features and uses new chip technoloigy with little heat generating energy loss, hence it doesn't need any heat sinks any longer.

Of course the great advantage is the combination of decoder and sound for any engine.

One example of USA Trains sound/DCC installtion with USA Trains engines can be found here:
USA Trains PA/B with ZIMO DCC


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Axel, 
So here is the question: If you have not seen the stall current above 5A will any 5A decoder cover the engine? While I agree that the ZIMO high end decoders are great they are also not cheap! (I know, you get what you pay for!). I have a friend that has about 15 USA engines and would like to put in the nice decoder sets (like ZIMO, etc.) into a couple of the engines but the rest he would like to put some basic decoders just to power them. Thanks


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 29 Mar 2011 06:00 AM 
I haven't come across any engine where I needed a 10A decoder. Even the USA Trains Big Boy didn't have a stall current >5A. 


Just because you haven't seen a USA-Trains engine with a stall current above 5 amps doesn't mean they don't exist:
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips5/gp9_tips.html#dcc

NCE didn't develop an 8 amp decoder (and that's 8 amp steady-state, not stall) just for the fun of it.

Bottom line, you need to somehow determine at least the running current of the loco you want to convert to DCC to pick the right size decoder.
The size of the engine doesn't determine that.
Pick too small a decoder and it hopefully shuts down before it destroys itself; pick too large a decoder, you spend extra money for nothing. 


As to the cost of similar decoders from different manufacturers - remember that a decoder is a bit of a long term "investment", saving $5 or $10 or $20 dollars and getting one you're not happy with will be an annoyance every time you run that engine. 

Zimo makes good decoders, no question - that's why I mentioned the Heller one because it's a "Zimo" with more current capability *if you need it*. 


There are also 1 amp and 1.5 amp decoders which may be perfectly adequate for some engines as long as these decoders can handle the Large Scale DCC voltage - so it's back to understanding the current requirements of the specific loco you want to convert to DCC.


Knut


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Knut, 
Interesting. This leads to more questions: 
- Should we measure stall current by stopping the wheels (hard stall) OR 
- should we measure stall current by hooking the engine to a wall and then letting it sit and spin on the track to find out that current level (stall with slippage)? 

I suspect that holding the wheels stopped will be very much higher than letting the engine slip normally (as under an extremely heavy load). 
So what is everyone's opinion on which is the better way to test stall current? If you do read George Schreyer's site he was more concerned about stripping the gears at his high current point. What is cheaper (and easier), having the decoder blow or having the engine drive the gears to shreds if you do encounter a wheel stopping issue? 

From my perspective I would look at the second test as being the prefered one since that is more likely to happen.


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## MrDCC (Dec 27, 2007)

Stall current is just that - the current draw AT FULL OPERATING VOLTAGE with the motor stalled. 

Slipping current is the second alternative you suggested. 

For more information, see my web site: http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/stall.htm 

As far as the USA trains units go, I know that there are some real current HOGS out there. NCE did not develop the expensive D808 with 8 amp run rating and 30 amp stall for nothing! Also, their 10 booster was designed to deliver 30 amps for 1/4 second. Again, I'm speculating, that some earlier USA units required it. 

A customer of my former business, Litchfield Station, toasted a D808 in his USA trains GP! The drive transistors were reduced to powder and the shrink around them blackened! Put a new decoder in and all was well. 

Two things I always recommend when installing a decoder: 

1) Test STALL current as explained on my web page referenced above 

2) The first power application should be on the current limited programming track so that any major wiring issues will be found when you cannot successrully write and /or read to / from the decoder 

Yes, you can ignore these with a lot of success. However, the time that you don't may be the time that you smoke one of the expensive decoders.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

You could also use a Massoth XXL--designed for 6amp continuous, 10Amp peak. It was the only decoder that wouldn't burn up in my friends Aristo Dash-9, though he was pulling long trains and gave it a real workout. Nothing else seemed to last. The Massoth decoders have the Susi interface for controlling sound cards as well as the load controlled pulsed smoke maker etc., so if you did want to add sound or smoke it's easily done later. 

Keith


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

For a down and dirty install I use the QSI DCC board works fine for me. Later RJD


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By MrDCC on 29 Mar 2011 08:39 AM 
Stall current is just that - the current draw AT FULL OPERATING VOLTAGE with the motor stalled. 


You can also determine stall current by just measuring the resistance of the motor itself.

Gets a bit tricky because you're measuring the resistance of the motor winding so your meter has to be able to reasonably accurately measure low resistance in the order of a few ohms.

You may also need to take the resistance of the test leads into consideration.


But if you do that correctly, you get the same value as if you measured the actual stall current - we proved that testing a dozen locomotives by different manufacturers.

Once you have measured the resistance of the motor windings, "convert" that to amps using Ohm's law.


So say for instance, the measurement is 1.7 ohms, at 22 volts, typical maximum DCC voltage, this will "translate into a stall current of about 13 amps (22/1.7)

Trouble is that most DCC decoder manufacturers no longer specify maximum allowable stall current, very few ever specified amximum slip current, most only specify maximum running current - so that's what I would measure - running the loco under maximum load on DC and measuring the current.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

In case it matters - 

I put the small NCE decorder (408, I think) in my USA S4 switcher which was my only motive power last summer, besides my RDC. The S4 never showed any indication of any sort of problem. 

Admittedly, it ran solo most of the time since I didn't start acquiring any rolling stock til the end of summer. The few times it ran with my five-car Intermodal set and a couple gons were similarly without problem (okay, limited grades and 8 foot radius curves). 

All these caveats aren't exactly proof that the 408 is sufficient for all USAT engines, but it's at least useable for light duty. 

JackM 

I've been waiting for QSI to have the Magnum available again, so I can get sound for the S4. Sure hope it happens within the next couple of months. I might end up taking whatever sound card is available.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

krs, 
I guess you are right there, put the engine under DC under the largest load you will run and see where the draw goes to. Make sure to record it as the manufacturer "should" stand behind their decoder provided you are running within their rated current.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By JackM on 29 Mar 2011 10:32 AM 
In case it matters - 

I put the small NCE decorder (408, I think) in my USA S4 switcher which was my only motive power last summer, besides my RDC. The S4 never showed any indication of any sort of problem. 

Admittedly, it ran solo most of the time since I didn't start acquiring any rolling stock til the end of summer. The few times it ran with my five-car Intermodal set and a couple gons were similarly without problem (okay, limited grades and 8 foot radius curves). 

All these caveats aren't exactly proof that the 408 is sufficient for all USAT engines, but it's at least useable for light duty. 

JackM 

I've been waiting for QSI to have the Magnum available again, so I can get sound for the S4. Sure hope it happens within the next couple of months. I might end up taking whatever sound card is available. 
I've had a QSI magnum in an USAT and an USAT 44 tonner with no problems whatsoever


There won't be any more QSI magnums--they are switching to the new "titan." I asked QSI at the ECLSTS, and was told they would be available in June. I'm skeptical, but I'm sure QSI wants them out ASAP, as at this point they have no product for sale. 


Meanwhile there a few comparable options, from Zimo and ESU.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Well, thanks all for the amount of feedback here. The bottom line is that it appears that the most cost effective motor only decoder that will stand up to the USA Trains engines is the NCE D808 as none of the 5A decoders would qualify in these engines! Did I get this right?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By rreiffer on 29 Mar 2011 11:48 AM 
Well, thanks all for the amount of feedback here. The bottom line is that it appears that the most cost effective motor only decoder that will stand up to the USA Trains engines is the NCE D808 as none of the 5A decoders would qualify in these engines! Did I get this right? 

Well not from my experience. The QSI decoder work for both a USAT 44 tonner and a USAT s4. The QSIs are only rated for 5 amps. I've also used an NCE 408 in a USA 44 tonner. That leads me to believe that any 5 amp capable decoder would work in these locos. It may be that some other USAT locos are more current hungry.


Besides the NCE 408, you could try this:

http://www.digitrax.com/prd_mobdec_dh465.php 

Or take a look at this chart: http://www.tonystrains.com/productc...arison.htm


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By rreiffer on 29 Mar 2011 11:48 AM 
Well, thanks all for the amount of feedback here. The bottom line is that it appears that the most cost effective motor only decoder that will stand up to the USA Trains engines is the NCE D808 as none of the 5A decoders would qualify in these engines! Did I get this right? 
Well yeah, if the requirement is to pick only one decoder that will work in any USA-Trains loco ever made.

But doing that is not a smart move in my opinion.
For one, the D808 is an older decoder, newer designs are probably better with more features and capability, the D808 is also relatively large and adding load-dependent sound is expensive.
And as has been pointed out more than once, people are using decoders with lower capacity in USA-Trains engines successfully.

I don't know when USA-Trains switched from the high current hog motors to more efficient ones - that was years ago, so if the USA-Trains roster is of relative recent vintage you wouldn't need the high current NCE decoder.


Knut


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Looks like it's time to break out the old amp meter (and/or appropriate measuring equipment) and see what kind of draw his engines are running. Some of them are quite old so they are probably the "I eat current for lunch" variety!


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By krs on 29 Mar 2011 12:49 PM 
Posted By rreiffer on 29 Mar 2011 11:48 AM 
Well, thanks all for the amount of feedback here. The bottom line is that it appears that the most cost effective motor only decoder that will stand up to the USA Trains engines is the NCE D808 as none of the 5A decoders would qualify in these engines! Did I get this right? 
Well yeah, if the requirement is to pick only one decoder that will work in any USA-Trains loco ever made.

But doing that is not a smart move in my opinion.
For one, the D808 is an older decoder, newer designs are probably better with more features and capability, the D808 is also relatively large and adding load-dependent sound is expensive.
And as has been pointed out more than once, people are using decoders with lower capacity in USA-Trains engines successfully.

I don't know when USA-Trains switched from the high current hog motors to more efficient ones - that was years ago, so if the USA-Trains roster is of relative recent vintage you wouldn't need the high current NCE decoder.


Knut 



That would explain that I haven't seen a USA Trains engine that drew that much current. All GP9s and other USA Trains engines we converted worked excellent with the ZIMO MX690 series and going forward now with the MX695s.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Axel, 

I don't have any USA-Trains locos myself, only LGB and Kiss, but I have a number of friends who run a lot of USA-Trains locos and with their help we are trying to pin down when USA-Trains made the switch from the high current otor to the ones they use now. 
The thinking is that this happened at the same time USA-Trains introduced low voltage lighting on their locos - that's what we are trying to verify because that question re USA Trains loco motors and current draw comes up every once in a while. 
Unfortunately USA-Trains does not mark the manufacturing date of the loco on the product like LGB does so we need a different reference point than a date. 
If it turns out that the switch of motors does correspond to the switch to low-voltage lighting, that would be good. 
As an alternative, one can always tell what kind of motor a specific USA-Trains engine has by just measuring the DC resistance of the motor.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Ok, 
Since the evidence is in that by ohming out your engines you can come up with the stall current, I will ohm out several of those engines to find out what they stall at! (It's a good thing I have got a high accuracy Fluke digital meter!)


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Thought I would let everyone know that I decided to go out a check several engines that I have, so I went and picked the following three:
- Aristocraft 0-4-0 Rogers
- Bachmann Big Hauler
- Bachmann Annie
(It was a little too cold out to check more!)








Anyway here is what I found:
- Aristocraft 0-4-0 Rogers = 3.5 ohm 
- Bachmann Big Hauler = 12 ohm
- Bachmann Annie = 12 ohm
Now I found that I simply cheated a little and put the engine on a track and measured the ohms it presented (with lights and all)to the meter. 
This kind of supports the values that George has on his web site when he says that a Bachmann Big Hauler can work with a 1.5A Decoder (2A peak). 
As I continue to measure some of my other engines (LGB, Bachmann Spectrum's, etc.) I will let you know what I find out.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

The very early USAT locos did indeed have stall currents of 15 amps.... per motor. This may have changed in the last decade. 

At the time I got it (first run) I asked around and all of the decoder manufacturers politely recommended that I use somebody else's decoder. NCE eventually released the D808 and that is what I used. 

Greg Elmassian has used the 3 amp QSI decoders in several older locos. Tony Walsham's older 27 MHz stuff handled the USAT locos as his RX used an expensive but very capable motor controller that apparently was able to deal with the high stall currents. Even with my D808, I had such high peak currents that it ate the wheels off the loco, even the SS ones. I had to add resistance, an ohm as I remember, in series with the decoder output the limit the peak currents so that the loco didn't toast it's wheels. 

You CAN check the motor stall resistance with an ohmmeter but be careful. Open the block and measure RIGHT ACROSS the motor terminals with the motor leads disconnected from the block. Rotate the motor to several positions and record the lowest reading. Then touch the probes together and read that. Subtract your probe resistance from the lowest motor reading to get the stall resistance of the one motor. Then divide that by two (for the 2nd motor). That is the load that the decoder will see (plus a little wiring resistance). Divide that into the track voltage minus 2 volts and that is about the stall current. 

- gws


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

one of the things you have to also think about is that the voltage and therefor the current is not constant 

ie you test up againest a stop with 24 volts and see 1.5 amps and think great I could run a ho decoder rated at 2 amps max 

but out on the layout you may have an area that is only 14 volts and if the loco hits that under full load your current will hit 2.57 amps and fry the decoder 


also on a usa you could run two decoders programed the same with one hooked to each motor


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Trains West on 31 Mar 2011 12:52 PM 
one of the things you have to also think about is that the voltage and therefor the current is not constant 

ie you test up againest a stop with 24 volts and see 1.5 amps and think great I could run a ho decoder rated at 2 amps max 

but out on the layout you may have an area that is only 14 volts and if the loco hits that under full load your current will hit 2.57 amps and fry the decoder 


also on a usa you could run two decoders programed the same with one hooked to each motor 



You got something backwards here - if your stall current (test against a stop as you put it) is 1.5 amps at 24 volts it will most definitely be less at 14 volts, not more. 

The "running" current will increase if the load increases, ie going up an incline and if you maintain the same voltage on the track, but if you reduce the track voltage, the running current will decrease.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

p=IR


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Trains West on 31 Mar 2011 09:51 PM 
p=IR

To start with, the formula is P=I^2 x R, but that formula has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

The stall current is determined by the DC resistance of the motor windings - that resistance doesn't change when you reduce the voltage.

So if you stall current at 24 volts is 1.5 amps, then the resistance of the motor windings is 16 ohms.

At 14 volts, the stall current of that same motor will measure 0.875 amps.


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

but what you are stating does not hold up to what I have seen in the past and in a test I just did 



I just took a usa 44 ton motor block ( just one ) it has 11 ohms across the motor with a good meter 

I clamped the wheels so they can not move 

and ran 14 volts to the block and saw a 2 amp draw 

buy what you are saying I should never see more then 1 1/4 amp 


there are several problems I see in how you are looking at it 

first you are assuming that the ohms is steedy state and I think with a feild and back emf voltage that may not be true 

secound though I tested the above with dc power that is not what comes out of the decoder....... plus you have the onboard processor changing what it is applying to the motor to try and keep a even speed as it sees it slow 

and third I am not talking in the steady state at 14 volt but when you are running hard and then hit track with a sudden voltage drop the wattage to keep the same power the the wheels is the same so if the voltage drops then current must go up to make it happen 



what I have seen in the past is locos that get a decoder installed and test fine you then run just the loco around and no problem then you hook up a train and no problem then on the next running or the third or a little down the road you are running and running and bang you hit a little rough track electrically and bang the decoder goes dead ....... so it is something to do with poor power to the decoder when under a higher load


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Trains West on 01 Apr 2011 10:01 AM 
but what you are stating does not hold up to what I have seen in the past and in a test I just did 

I just took a usa 44 ton motor block ( just one ) it has 11 ohms across the motor with a good meter 
I clamped the wheels so they can not move 
and ran 14 volts to the block and saw a 2 amp draw 
buy what you are saying I should never see more then 1 1/4 amp 
there are several problems I see in how you are looking at it 
first you are assuming that the ohms is steedy state and I think with a feild and back emf voltage that may not be true 
secound though I tested the above with dc power that is not what comes out of the decoder....... plus you have the onboard processor changing what it is applying to the motor to try and keep a even speed as it sees it slow 
and third I am not talking in the steady state at 14 volt but when you are running hard and then hit track with a sudden voltage drop the wattage to keep the same power the the wheels is the same so if the voltage drops then current must go up to make it happen 

what I have seen in the past is locos that get a decoder installed and test fine you then run just the loco around and no problem then you hook up a train and no problem then on the next running or the third or a little down the road you are running and running and bang you hit a little rough track electrically and bang the decoder goes dead ....... so it is something to do with poor power to the decoder when under a higher load

I wish I could figure out how to quote individual parts of a post in this forum - I'll ask that elsewhere...

Scott - going in sequence on your last post:

11 ohms DC resistance on that motor block sounds reasonable. Don't know if you followed George's instructions how to measure that, he went into more detail in his post than I would have, but his instructions are dead on.
So with a DC resistance of 11 ohms and a voltage of 14 volts DC applied, you should have seen a stall current draw of 14/11 or 1.27 amps (which is what I assume you mean by "but what you are saying I should never see more then 1 1/4 amp". Well, all I can say is that one of your measurements is not correct or done properly. 

In this case - when determining stall current, the motor is not turning so there is no back-emf; with an ohmmeter, you apply a DC voltage, the meter measures the current and then converts and displays that in ohms, but measuring low resistance accurately with a regular ohmmeter is difficult - George eluded to that in his instructions, you need to really make good contact with your probes, subtract the probe resistance etc. 

With your current value of 2 amps and a voltage of 14 volts, the motor winding resistance would be 7 ohms.

Now when the loco is running, the back-emf is generated and the "running" current is much less than the stall current or the slip current, but it doesn't matter what happens, if you hit an obstacle or dirty track where the voltage drops, the current drawn by that particular motor can never exceed the stall current, basic ohms law.

I have no clue why your decoders get fried but it's definitely because the current suddenly exceeded the stall current, that's just impossible.

Even if it did, all decoders I know of are protected against overcurrents and shorts on the output, so in worst case, say if you didn't determine the stall current correctly and it was really 5 amps and the current did exceed the rated decoder output current, the decoder would have just shut down.

What does kill DCC decoders is overvoltage and you only need that to happen for an instant. Most DCC decoders don't even have their maximum operating voltage specified.

According to the NMRA DCC spec, a DCC decoder for H0 and larger scales should be able to handle at least 27 volts but I know tons of them that don't - many only handle 18 or 20 or 22 volts.

If you hit those with a higher voltage spike they die.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

and running and bang you hit a little rough track electrically and bang the decoder goes dead 

I think this is exactly what Knut is referring to with the sudden voltage spike, and it's what separates the wheat from the chaff when it comes to decoders. As I said earlier, if the USA engines are anything like the big Aristos, then I think your best bet is the Massoth XXL...it is designed properly (can take 27V) and sustained current. My friend tried the highest rated versions from other brands and fried them all. The XXL is still working. Regarding your measurement discrepancy--how sure are you that the 14V you are applying is accurate and sustained under load? 

Keith


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All, 
As a side note, when I ohmed out the engines I did find significant difference based upon the position of the motor so to be safe rotate through 360 degrees at least twice to verify you have seen the "lowest" point.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By krs on 01 Apr 2011 10:56 AM 
.......... What does kill DCC decoders is overvoltage and you only need that to happen for an instant. Most DCC decoders don't even have their maximum operating voltage specified.

According to the NMRA DCC spec, a DCC decoder for H0 and larger scales should be able to handle at least 27 volts but I know tons of them that don't - many only handle 18 or 20 or 22 volts.

If you hit those with a higher voltage spike they die. 



UNLESS.....

The ZIMO decoder generations were always above those limits, and the current generation is safe all the way to 40V. This is a good thing beause some DCC systems on themarket don't use regualtor circuits when outputting the DCC, hence their DCC fluctuates with the AC/DC source (depending on what they are using) which can lead to critical spikes.


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

All,

I spent some time with a great friend (Carl) and we tested all of his engines tonight. We performed three tests (not 100% perfect but at least a move in the right direction) and we tested for the following:
[*]Ohm's - we found that this measured BEST AFTER we tested the engine running the other two tests as it gave us consistently the lowest ohm reading.[*]Amperage at stall (holding the engine down)[*]Amperage at full slippage - basically the engine was tied with a bungee cord and we let the engine run to full current.[/list] So, here is what we found on the following engines:

USA F3 A Unit CP 1402 
- Ohms 2.8 
- Amps 4.8 stall 
- Run 3.3 
USA B Unit CP 4438 
- Ohms 1.4
- Amps 5.0 stall 
- Run 3.4 
USA PA Rio Grande 6001 
- Ohms 1.3 
- Amps 5.2 stall 
- Run 3.6 
USA PA B Unit Rio Grande
- Ohms 1.3 - Amps 5.0 stal - Run 3.2 Aristocraft Mallet 2042 GN - Ohms 2.2 - Amp 4.8 stall - Run 3.0 USA GP38 Great Northern 3003 - Ohms 4.2 - Amps 4.48 stall - Run 2.76 USA SOO GP38-2 4420 - Ohms 1.3 - Amps 4.8 stall - Run 3.0 Aristocraft E8 Burlington 9973 - Ohms 3 - Amps 4. stall - Run 3.23

Basically this list confirms what everyone was saying, USA = 8A and Aristo's = 5A (to be safe).

I hope this helps.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Something seems wrong with your e8 numbers, the running current is greater than the full stall... 

Greg


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Opps, sorry Greg, typo.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's a nice set of information, what voltage were you running? That will surely affect the amps... 

Regards, Greg


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## rreiffer (Jan 14, 2009)

Greg, 

I was using the MRC Controlmaster 20 set to "G" and no "Nudge". I measured the voltage and it appears to peak at about 12V-14.5V with this setting. For some reason the MRC seems to have a peak built into it (although I would have thought it would have had more push).


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