# C-16 Alky Conversion



## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

How did it start? Why should I take a perfectly good running engine that I had already converted to straight propane, which would run for hours without refueling, and try to convert it to alcohol?
A very good question. I won’t blame it all on Steve Shyvers, but I read and re-read his Steam in The Garden articles on how he converted his Roundhouse Billy to a JvR “C” type boiler. I was very intrigued. I’ve also admired Justin’s (Slipped Eccentric) ability to take an electric Accucraft K-27 and not only convert it to steam, but a coal fired live steamer to boot!
I got a good offer on an Accucraft GS-4 Daylight. It was butane fired, 1/32 scale, and pulled no rolling stock that I owned or cared to bash from MTH. I thought I could repaint it to the way it was when it came to Miami back in ’76, but imagine the flack I’d get for repainting “the most beautiful train in the world”. I was tempted, very much so, but somewhere along the way, before the GS-4 offer came along, I was convinced I needed to have an alky engine. So NOW what was I to do?
I’m also hoping one day to burn a little welsh coal to generate steam, but I have no skillz with a torch with the exception of a fitting or two silver soldered with propane. So I began to do a little reading and found out about the JvR “C” type boiler. (If you don’t know who John van Riemsdijk is, it’s worth your time googling his name.) The advantage of the “C” type is all the soldering is on the outside, so it’s possible to repair if you hose up the soldering during construction. In my book it sounds perfect for a novice boilermaker.
Enough background, let’s get to it. From my point of view a C-16 is not a good candidate for coal firing. The space between the frames is about 1 inch and about 4 inches long where the firebox sits. It looks more suited to a lining up a bunch of wick holders. After pulling the cab and the boiler off I found that four .44 magnum shells fit in that space perfectly. Here’s a shot of the shells which I drilled as low as possible for some K&S tubing to fit through. You can also see the first mock up of the proposed fire box. I used cardboard like from a cereal box or frozen pizza box.


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Wow Dave - can't wait to see how this one turns out. Joel and I have discussed on many occasions converting our butane engines to Alki. In some ways, alki burners are the best of both worlds - less fiddling than coal, more prototypical than butane, and no cold temp problems. Keep the reports coming!


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Great Dave, I was looking at the 308 shells we were shooting on Friday thinking that would make a great lubricator. Haha. I also have some 45acp for the same idea. 

Going to have anything for Jims meet?


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mark Scrivener on 06 Feb 2010 06:28 PM 
In some ways, alki burners are the best of both worlds - less fiddling than coal, more prototypical than butane, and no cold temp problems. 



I could not agree with you more. Alcohol is my favorite fuel too. You still get to use a blower while not hearing the howl or noise of most butane burners.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

After trimming the cardboard mock up time and time again, I felt ready to transfer the dimensions to brass. I picked up some .016 K&S brass sheet and transferred my measurements. (I didn’t know it yet, but this was too thin.) I bent it up and it looked pretty good. 
Time to assemble my burner. After cutting some notches in the tubing for fuel flow, I started brazing the .44 shells to the tubing. I noticed that the larger the entire piece got, the more the entire assembly acted like a heat sink. By the time I got to the last shell, the propane torch could not keep up with the amount of heat being lost and brazing was very difficult. I needed something that could put out a little more heat. I was able to finish and it sealed. (I tested it by applying vacuum with my mouth then letting the assembly hang by it vacuum from my lip!







) Here’s what I had at that point.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like I need to do some work on my photos before I continue..... More tomorrow.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By seadawg on 06 Feb 2010 07:46 PM 
After trimming the cardboard mock up time and time again, I felt ready to transfer the dimensions to brass. I picked up some .016 K&S brass sheet and transferred my measurements. (I didn’t know it yet, but this was too thin.) I bent it up and it looked pretty good. 
Time to assemble my burner. After cutting some notches in the tubing for fuel flow, I started brazing the .44 shells to the tubing. I noticed that the larger the entire piece got, the more the entire assembly acted like a heat sink. By the time I got to the last shell, the propane torch could not keep up with the amount of heat being lost and brazing was very difficult. I needed something that could put out a little more heat. I was able to finish and it sealed. (I tested it by applying vacuum with my mouth then letting the assembly hang by it vacuum from my lip!







) Here’s what I had at that point.



Hi Dave,
You talk about notches in the tubing for fuel flow.
I'm not sure if you have only notched it on top, or top and bottom, but it has been known for wick material to actually block 'top' holes and prevent the fuel from properly burning.
I read somewhere of actually assembling the burner first, and then drilling down through the top and bottom of the supply tube at the same time, eliminating the chance for fuel starvation.
Just DON'T DRILL RIGHT THROUGH THE BOTTOM OF THE SHELL CASING!
How about a photo of the boiler so that we can see where the burner will act on.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is going to be interesting. Unfortunately because of Dave and Steve, now I cannot say I won't buy a Accucraft or Roundhouse steamer because they are not alcohol fired!


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad to see you finally got a start on this, Dave! Looks good so far. Had the same thoughts for an Accucraft American.


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Copper is so pretty


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Slipped Eccentric on 06 Feb 2010 10:54 PM 
Glad to see you finally got a start on this, Dave! Looks good so far. Had the same thoughts for an Accucraft American. 

Thanks Justin, I'm hoping to have it done by Dr. Rivet's spring narrow gauge meet. I got some questions on blast pipes, but I'm planning on bringing this topic up to speed first.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

About your statement: "I won’t blame it all on Steve Shyvers..." 

Not sure whether I should be proud of that or worried! 

Steve


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

Cool project! I can't wait to see how this turns out. 


Here's something that should help on the silver brazing: go to a fireplace store and buy some firebricks. You can make a little hearth on your workbench, just a little box open on the front and top, where you can solder stuff. The firebricks will reflect the radiated heat back at the piece you're soldering, resulting in less heat loss.

If that's not enough of a boost. Take a hammer and pound some of the bricks into gravel-sized chunks. Put them in a bucket and bury the piece you are soldering in the chunks, with only the part to be soldered visible. I've seen people use a bucket of cat litter for that task, too. There are many ways to keep that escaping heat focused on the piece.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Ryan, 

Thank you for the clarification. Often wondered if the cross tubes need to be spirally offset differently south of the equator, and should they be oriented opposite to any Coriolis-induced rotation? (joking, sort of.) 

Another idea I'd like to experiment with is to fit a radiant element in the flue. It could be stainless, ceramic, or other refractory material. It takes surprisingly little to get stainless to glow cherry red (which is why I don't position my "superheaters" directly in the flame.) I have some old space heater coiled elements (nickel-chromium?) that I'd like to try. I think one would need to make sure that the burner flame played directly on the radiant element. That seems to be a key factor with alcohol firing anyway, that the hottest part of the flame needs to actually contact the surface to be heated. 

Steve


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

OK let's get back to it... I mentioned in passing the paper mockups I made to test fit the firebox before cutting my first sheet of brass. Measure twice, cut once...










I made the first paper mockup, trimmed it to fit my actual firebox location, then took measurements to recreate the mockup on another piece of cardboard, as if it was brass, cut it, bent it, AND IT FIT! Ready to cut come brass... I transferred those same measurements to a real piece of brass and started cutting.

I bent the brass and felt like I needed a little flange on the front. So I cut a strip of brass and worked up something that might pass for a flange. (I didn't know I was walking down the wrong path yet.)










So you can see the flange I attempted to attach to the front of the fire box. I say attempted because at this point I was still using the propane tourch. I was still afraid of heat. Most of my soldering skills were gained while soldering under a microscope. ( Try re-certing "D" level while underway on a Destroyer!)
And again I hadn't learned that as the metal pieces get larger, they become a more efficient heat sink. I just couldn't get the brazing to flow with the propane. 










Alrighty then, I can take a hint. I got my loaner Oxy-acetylene rig, gathered the appropriate adaptors, now I can make my workbench glow as bright as the face of the sun.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I went to MAP, it was better, but Oxy-Acet would be the way to go if you have it. No comment on my torch skills, I can do it well now, but have scars to prove it (do not run plumbing above your head in a crawl space while wearing a watch...) 

May need some fire brick for a small hearth too to keep the heat where you want it?


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

After getting the bugs with the Oxy-acetylene worked out, I started seeing exactly how much heat can I get from a #0 tip (A LOT). I started with a couple of the .44 Mag shells that I had drilled off center, and a few scraps of the same thickness brass I had built my fire box from. It seemed that even with the shortest little blue flame, the brass would melt at nearly the same time as the 1/16" Safety-Silv. So back to the drawing board. I felt I needed thicker brass to build my firebox out of. All the while, learning more important lessons about silver soldering. Trying to ramp up the learning curve before time to braze the boiler. Small steps.... 

(oh and yes, Garrett, I picked up some fire bricks to help keep the heat in.)


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

So back to the shirtboard mockups. I transferred the dimension to some thicker brass (.032), it became much harder to bend but I was able to duplicate the bends I had from the first firebox, but this one was much more robust and did not melt away so quickly.I was still unsure of how to finish the back of the firebox where it routes the hot gasses into the flue tubes. Thanks to my friend Wayne, who seems to own at least one of each DR loco Aster ever built, I was able to examine a few different firebox designs implemented by Aster. He also had the assemby manuals for many of his engines and it became clear how I should proceed with mine. Here's what I came up with:










and a slightly different angle:










Now we're getting some where, next step boiler design.....


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dawg, 
Switch over to MAP gas for the thinner brass. The flame will heat the brass just right and the safety sil will zip right into the joints. I have been doing quite a bit of 0.25 to ? brass work and silver brazed everything. When do you know when to apply the solder? When the flux melts (becomes clear) A little dab will do ya. 
I still say yer nutz. 
Groundpounder


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By livesteam5629 on 15 Feb 2010 09:00 PM 
Dawg, 
Switch over to MAP gas for the thinner brass. The flame will heat the brass just right and the safety sil will zip right into the joints. I have been doing quite a bit of 0.25 to ? brass work and silver brazed everything. When do you know when to apply the solder? When the flux melts (becomes clear) A little dab will do ya. Also keep the flame moving. Oxy Acetaline and Severt torches are just too hot for this type of work. 
I still say yer nutz. 
Groundpounder


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave: Maybe you mentioned it already and I did not see it, but how are you going to seal around the edge of the fire box? 

Bob


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 15 Feb 2010 10:29 PM 
Dave: Maybe you mentioned it already and I did not see it, but how are you going to seal around the edge of the fire box? 

Bob 



That's still open for debate. Maybe RTV or maybe a gasket with some type of banding tp keep the boiler down tight. Does the Japanese manufacturer use some type of sealant????


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By seadawg on 16 Feb 2010 05:42 PM 
Posted By xo18thfa on 15 Feb 2010 10:29 PM 
Dave: Maybe you mentioned it already and I did not see it, but how are you going to seal around the edge of the fire box? 

Bob 



That's still open for debate. Maybe RTV or maybe a gasket with some type of banding tp keep the boiler down tight. Does the Japanese manufacturer use some type of sealant???? 
I think they mainly use a strip of thermal insulation. I see on McMaster-Carr that both Loctite and Permatex make a copper RTV sealant good to 700F. That should be plenty. As I recall Larry Hegret used it with success.

Bob


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

So the original C-16 boiler was made from 2 inch copper pipe. One of my reasons for tackling the C-16 replacement alky boiler was that I had a chunk of 2 inch copper pipe that had been given to me for the express purpose of building a boiler some day. Time to get to it. The pipe had been rapidly cut off of some project and was not cut straight, so one of my first thing to do was to try and cut a straight cut on one end. I used a piece of recycled printer paper and overlapped the edges to get a good square end. After getting close with a hack saw, I finished up with my bench grinder. 
Still wanting to practice more with my torch, came up with some pieces I turned from bronze to make the steam manifold. It even gave me a chance to use my milling attachment for my lathe. It chattered to beat the band but I was able to come up with a fairly flat surface to solder some bushing to that I would tap after soldering /drilling.
Here’s what I came up with.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I also wanted a sight glass, so I needed to create some bushings / fittings, but didn’t want to use banjo bolts and such. So I made some fittings that with some care while attaching to the boiler, they might just line up.


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Dave, 
When I built the rail-truck boiler I added a sight glass. I used a piece of solid brass stock the same size as the glass tube to keep everything lined up while soldering. Everything lined up good when I finished. 
Larry


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, Redbeard--the brass rod trick is the way the guys at Roundhouse do it. Of course, I had to break a couple of glasses during installations before I thought of it. 

Larry


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave looks like you are making good use of Regner fittings..Heh 

On the sight glass elbows, is there one with a threaded cap to slide the glass down into it from the top? I cant tell 100% from the photo. Just need to be able to replace the glass easily if anything happens. 

Hope to see it running at Jims. Are you going?


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Kovacjr on 18 Feb 2010 05:23 PM 
Dave looks like you are making good use of Regner fittings..Heh 

On the sight glass elbows, is there one with a threaded cap to slide the glass down into it from the top? I cant tell 100% from the photo. Just need to be able to replace the glass easily if anything happens. 

Hope to see it running at Jims. Are you going? 

I have busted a glass or two, so to answer the first question - yes. The fitting on the right is open on the top where a threaded plug goes in. I don't have it there because I was messing around with alignment and placement on the boiler using a drill bit (#18, I think).

Again I'll answer yes, I'm planning on going to the Doctor's Narrow Gauge Steamup. My goal is to have it ready by then.

The cool thing about using the Regner fittings is, since I've built a few of their kits, I have a fair amount of spare stuff. Oh and yes, I can drive over to Ken's house and pick up some stuff if he's got it in stock. (He does tend to stock a fair amount of the small parts.)


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I picked up a couple of books on Amazon; “Model Locomotive Boilers: Their Design and Construction” by Martin Evans and “Model Boilers and Boilermaking” by K.N. Harris. I skimmed through both of these rapidly (not recommended). I decided that I would attempt to build flanged tube plates. I purchased some 48 oz. (.0647”) copper sheet because it was the same thickness as the wall of my copper tubing. I made a form and a plug out of maple, trimmed and ground the sheet to my size, annealed the copper and had a go with the forms using my drill press instead of my non-existent hydraulic press. I probably annealed and pressed and hammered about eight times each plate.

I then chucked them in my lathe and turned the outside of the flange to slip fit into the copper tubing. I had some decent sized gaps and wasn’t sure if the brazing will fill them, but I decided to drill the holes (using a step drill) for the tubes anyhow.

At this point I knew it would not be finished for Diamondhead, but I was planning on taking it down with me to see if I could get a few pointers from people with more knowledge and skills than I.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

At Diamondhead I spoke to a few subject matter experts like Larry Herget, Torry Krutzke, and a new acquaintance, Ernie Noa. I’m not sure if Ernie is a member here, but he likes to scratch[/i][/b] build alky fired gauge 1 engines. 
After talking to these guys, and I won’t say who told me what, to allow them to use plausible deniability, I decided to go back and build new tube plates using a much thicker (1/8th inch) un-flanged plate. Ernie told me a little trick that was so simple, but if I hadnever heard of it, I NEVER would have thought of it; to turn a flat plate that you don’t want to drill a hole to attach it to a collet or mandrel, soft solder a piece of copper or bronze round stock and chuck it up! I was amazed at how fast that happened and how well the new tube plate fit into the 2” tubing. Just be careful to not attempt to hog too much off in one pass, it's REAL hard to get it soldered back in the same, exact spot (don't ask me how I know).




















I’m almost ready to start brazing my boiler (and this story is almost catching up to real time).


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Dave, 
That is a neat trick. Just be sure to clean off any soft solder that is near a point you want silver solder to stick to. They won't mix and you'll spend a lot of time watching the silver solder ball up where the soft solder is. 

Don't ask me how I learned that lesson!!! 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

As long as you have a slip fit (.003" or so), the silver solder will wick into the gap and provide a VERY strong joint. Nothing to be nervous about - people do it all the time in this scale. 

Somehow, though, I thought you were going to do like Steve Shyvers did and just retrofit a meths firebox to your single-flue gas boiler. Did you try that already, and I missed it?


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By FH&PB on 24 Feb 2010 01:45 PM 
As long as you have a slip fit (.003" or so), the silver solder will wick into the gap and provide a VERY strong joint. Nothing to be nervous about - people do it all the time in this scale. 

Somehow, though, I thought you were going to do like Steve Shyvers did and just retrofit a meths firebox to your single-flue gas boiler. Did you try that already, and I missed it? 

Vance! You didn't read all the pages of my diatribe? Just kidding. To answer your question, I didn't try the retrofit. My goal was to practice building a boiler to allow me to build a future coal fired boiler, but also to have some of the enjoyment (some people may argue that) of alcohol fired loco.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By mocrownsteam on 24 Feb 2010 09:54 AM 
Dave, 
That is a neat trick. Just be sure to clean off any soft solder that is near a point you want silver solder to stick to. They won't mix and you'll spend a lot of time watching the silver solder ball up where the soft solder is. 

Don't ask me how I learned that lesson!!! 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts 

Mike, I have heard that and heeded what I was told (which is odd because I tend to learn things the hard way). I wped down the disc when the solder was still liquid and left only thin layer. I the sanded off the residue with 400 grit paper. Clean as a whistle. (Well, just how clean is a whistle anyhow?)


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## Steamboil (May 12, 2009)

Hi,

So far, on all my boiler/burner conversions. I've had "PC Fahrenheit" work well for sealing around the fire box; however, I found that if you braze the firebox onto the boiler (or at least the main part on the bottom side of the boiler), the boiler seems to produce much more power and the cab temps are much lower. 


Happy steaming,
Tom S.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I got the flues trimmed, my bushings and manifold built and the flue plates ready to go. I guess there’s no time like the present. 
I decided to braze the tube plates on first, then the accessories and finish off with the tubes. I was rather concerned about de-soldering the manifold or my sight tube bushes. I thought of ways to keep the heat from affecting the pre-assembled pieces. One idea I thought of was using cotton twine and keeping it wet. I also read online about a guy who used raw potatoes. I wound up using nothing and suffered no ill effects. I guess I’m still suffering from years of working with soft solder. 
I had used the firebrick “tent” for brazing but I also used a steel bucket with cat litter in it to hold the boiler vertical when soldering the flues.









Just a note on pickling; I used a pickling mixture of 50% battery acid and 50% water. I cannot stress the hazards involved using this stuff. I suffered no damage to skin, clothing, equipment, children, or pets. I have a deep sink that is rather convenient for this process. I used the solution for cleaning prior to brazing to help ensure proper solder flow. I’ve heard people say to use it afterwards to clean the flux off of the joints. Personally, I used it for both. Especially after finishing with the tubes, I wanted to get all of the flux and carbon residue out of the boiler. I am now open for criticism and comment. 
With the brazing finished, I now began to determine if I had an actual pressure vessel. I’ve read about hydro testing boilers and being a certified SCUBA guy and a former torpedo launcher, I under the need for and the dangers involved with testing pressure vessels. ALL AIR should be purged from the test vessel! Following the published G1MRA test procedures, I sealed all bushing and ran the pressure up to twice my proposed operating pressure (65psi). I took me three or four tries to get all my bushing plugs completely sealed, but once that was accomplished, NO LEAKS!!!


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## Slipped Eccentric (Jan 2, 2008)

VERY nice, dave! The only thing I do different is use a solution of 10% acid in a dedicated crock. When you get further down the road, if you make an adapter for the exhaust tee threaded 5mm, the old burner jets with enlarged holes make nice, easily removable, exhaust nozzles.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Work has progressed rapidly since the boiler hydro-test. I needed to plumb the supply line and the blower piping, figure out how to seal the firebox to the boiler. I needed to seal the boiler’s entry into the smokebox and the hole at the bottom of the smokebox. I decided to make gaskets for the firebox out of “Oatey Flame Protector” blanket, it’s like a fireproof felt. I’m also using it for the wicks.









After I figured everything was sealed as well as I could I put my loco up on a stand, put the suction fan on the stack and lit a piece of incense and moved it slowly around the smokebox and firebox trying to see if I could pull some smoke in from a place that should not and I found nothing. I put the little cone of burning incense under the firebox, and, much to my amazement, the smoke went up the firebox and out of the stack! 
Now it’s time to coble a temporary tender together and see if I can draw burnt alcohol fumes through the same path!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave: very nice work, coming along great.

Boiler making is a lot of fun. It's the best part.

Your pickle is too strong. 8 or 10 to 1 is plenty.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 15 Mar 2010 02:11 PM 
Dave: very nice work, coming along great.

Boiler making is a lot of fun. It's the best part.

Your pickle is too strong. 8 or 10 to 1 is plenty. 



That's the first time I've ever been told my pickle is too strong!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By seadawg on 15 Mar 2010 02:33 PM 
Posted By xo18thfa on 15 Mar 2010 02:11 PM 
Dave: very nice work, coming along great.

Boiler making is a lot of fun. It's the best part.

Your pickle is too strong. 8 or 10 to 1 is plenty. 



That's the first time I've ever been told my pickle is too strong!











Well, y'er from Virginia.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

I really don’t want to hack a hole in the bottom of the Accucraft tender (for the alcohol sump) unless the boiler is truly functional, due to the fact that I have made only small and minor modifications to the loco. (I notched the boiler shell to allow for the boiler fittings and drilled a hole in the simulated firebox for the alcohol supply line.) So I decided to build a small temporary tender from a HLW two axle car. This will allow me to also experiment with alky levels for proper fuel feed. Here’s what I built:









I also wanted to expound on my sealing of the boiler (you can also get a peek at some piping). I used the “Oatey Flame Protector” blanket again cut into small strips and used it for packing around the brass boiler shell / smokebox adapter.









I got the loco mostly buttoned up (temporarily speaking) and it’s time to set this thing on fire! I built a “wash rack” years ago, thinking I needed somewhere else besides my kitchen sink to deep clean my engines. I spent a bunch of time on it and I don’t think I ever used it. But it makes a GREAT test stand for watching the burners with a mirror. Sorry, I must apologize for this very busy picture……


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

So here’s what happened next. (This past Saturday.)
Suction fan on, light the wicks, wait a bit. Pressure begins to build; the safety has been adjusted down as this is the first firing since the hydro test. Safety lifts around 40 PSI. Do I celebrate? It does actually create steam. 
The next test goes like this: remove the suction fan and turn on the blower. Pressure is maintained. Do I celebrate?
I crank open the blower while watching the flame with a mirror. It looks like a blast furnace! Do I celebrate?
Pressure has dropped to 20PSI so I back down the blower to a slight crack and the pressure begins to climb. Do I celebrate? The thing does actually create steam!
I let the pressure drop, put out the flame. (Where do I get those things people have been using as mini fire extinguishers, a bike shop?) I get the rig up on rollers, time to test the blast pipe. I don’t expect this first design to function as it’s only a pipe reamed out to .080”, not a real orifice and it’s way too tall (on purpose) nowhere near the 3:1 ratio.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

It's looking very good. Alcohol is a little more challenging then gas. Wick height and shape, level of the alcohol coming from the sump all need "tweeking". With 4 pots, that boiler will steam like crazy. 

LBSC usually specified a #70 drill opening on the blower nozzle (for Gauge 1). My guess is that #70 creates more velocity. I just barely crack open the blower and get all kinds of good draft. I also leave the blower open while running.

Do you have a petticoat in the smoke box?

Bike shops have those CO2 tire inflating things. They may have 2 sizes. Get the smaller one that uses regular BB gun cylinders. One cylinder is good for 5 or 6 "toots"


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

For the alcohol-fired Billy's blower nozzle I used a section of stainless capillary tube from a "Luer" type nozzle. The Luer nozzle came with a plastic syringe for dispensing adhesive. I think the inside diameter is about 26-mils. Works great and doesn't use a lot of steam. I chopped off about a quarter inch long section and silver soldered it into the end of a 1/16" diameter copper tube. 

Steve


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, *did *you celebrate? I would have!


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

DID I CELEBRATE? HECK YEAH! But I’m not ready for the track quite yet. I’m on my third blast pipe design and it’s getting real close. I noticed the flame differences from the fan to the blower to the blast pipe and how the different vacuum sources affect the flame. I also discovered the blast pipe does need to be somewhat restrictive in order to allow the steam to take more time to exhaust. Currently the blast pipe while on rollers can only keep the steam at 20 PSI. I actually may have a problem with the burner design but I’ll probably create a new thread so that the people who have become bored with this post might read the new one. Since I do not have any JvR “C” type boiler operating experience I don’t know what is supposed to be happening inside the firebox. 

Brief description; front wick barley lit, next one back slightly more lit. Third wick looks like doing the most work, fourth wick (closest to the fuel sump) flames straight up into firebox cavity by flue entrance. I might have the wicks too close to the boiler and they could also be being starved for fuel. 
Here's the link to the burner topic.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Time to bring this topic back from the dead.....

I took a little time off from the main thread to do some redesign of the burner. If you didn't follow along on the above mentioned, four pages of burner thread (if you didn't, I don't blame you, it can be tedious) the quick answer is the wick tubes were too close to the bottom of the boiler. I also made a new burner and used a larger, 3/16 pipe for the supply. With the redesign, I can pull six bricks on Hartland flats: 










I felt the success warranted the next step which I have feared as being no very easily reversed: hacking a hole into the bottom of a watertight tender to allow a sump to be fitted. I must admit I had a difficult time bringing myself to the point of actually putting the spinning cutoff wheel against the paint, but once that had occurred, there was no turning back. I soldered up some brass strips to build a sump. I’m glad I had built the boiler and had some brazing experience under my belt. I was able to build something that was relatively square even after exposure to the heat of my torch. Here’s a view of it mounted in place: 










Time to start plumbing...


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Dave, 
WHERE in the tender is the water going to be? 
I like to have my sump with open space around it and above the level of the floor, just in case there is water spillage, so that the water can drain out without getting into the sump and destroying a nice steam up! 
Yours appears to be higher than the floor, but a fairly tight fit. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave: Good news cracking the code on the burner. Keep good shop notes on this, so next time you don't have to re-invent.

How much burn time did you get?? How long to get pressure??

Good job, Bob


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

David, there is some space in the tender if I seal off the original water tank. I already opened the water fill hatch and have made plugs for the four 3/16" holes in the floor, but I never really intended to have some type of automatic feed system. There is no real room for an axle pump on the loco, but I have given some consideration to an electric feed pump in a trailing car using a R/C airplane fuel tank like this:










Bob, I do not have the fuel tank completed to allow the sump to be automaticly topped up, but it's going to be rather large, it nearly fills the entire coal bunker shown above. The loco took a fair amount of time to get pressure up until I was on the blower, that's when I realized I need new batteries in the fan. I'm planning on doing a full blown shakedown this coming weekend and the grand unveiling the following weekend at Dr. Rivet's Spring Narrow Gauge Meet. I should be able to provide a full description of performance and I might actually be able to get a video on YouTube.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's a view from underneath, how I plumbed the sump to the burner:








It's a close fit but there is actually no interference or encroachment of the truck or wheels!

I'm almost ready!!!


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