# 7.5 Gauge Locomotive



## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

I have been holding out on you guys. Those of you who have been following my Pennsylvania Railroad E-6 Atlantic builders log may have noticed that no progress has been made in some time. That’s because I have started work on a 7.5” gauge porter locomotive. Like its smaller 4.75” gauge little sister, it will be powered by electricity. Two bicycle motors form electricscooterparts.com will power it. I would like to build a live steam loco some day but I just don’t have the patience right now and I wanted something that would be easy to operate.
The photos below illustrate my progress so far. Joel


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

That's great, Joel! Can't wait to see your progress! 
Are you buying rail, or going with flat-stock on end? 

Matt


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

No track yet, but I did just join a local club that has a temporary track and we expect to have permission from the city of Santa Rosa to build a permanent track in a local park.


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## leftyfretguy (Jan 2, 2008)

Very cool! 
But why the change of gauge? I have kept the smaller project in the back of my head and hopefully one of these years I will build my own ride on. Could the motor for this project fit in the 4 3/4" locomotive? 
Can'r wait to watch the progress on this one as well! 
Matt


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

I changed gauge because it seems like there are more clubs out there that support 7.5” than 4.75”. I initially chose 4.47 because I was planning on building a short loop of track on my property and the smaller trains allowed for tighter turns. Now that I’m in a club, it makes more sense to build bigger for the club track.
The 4.75 inch porter that I build is powered by a windshield wiper motor and has enough power to pull me in a gondola and a caboose as well, but it is underpowered on grades and could use a larger motor. Eventually it will use the same bicycle motor as the larger version will use.
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/images/MOT-24250Gb.jpg 







Also, below is the web site where I get my parts like electronic speed controls and throttles. These prices are much lower than some of the large scale manufactures. 
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/motors.html

another link to perk your intrest:
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/beat/non/loco/loco0e.html


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

*Very impressive!! Your skils as well!! *

*I just glansed at your website. I plan to spend more time with it soon.*


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful! 

That's what I was planning to do at our place in Eldorado Township with Caleb and Ethan.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I am trying to figure out a way to afford this one day. They say the pieces go together like a swiss watch!
Looks like an aster kit, just alot bigger. 


http://livesteamparts.com/new_page_1.htm 
http://livesteamparts.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php

Then build one from scratch using one of my 7.5" gauge club members garage equipment, huge mill and lathe! 


Sorry if this is somewhat off topic, One of my passions is to own one of these beautys and I wanted to share it. 

Andrew


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## Kevin Miller (Jan 5, 2008)

Andrew, 

The brakes are a very good idea for riding cars. I was at Train Mountain this summer with a friend that had no brakes on his cars. All braking was done by slowly putting the engine in reverse. His Diesel engine was hydraulic so braking this way does not hurt it as long as you don't spin the wheels backwards. I had the opportunity to run another train that had brakes under the engineers car and what a difference that made.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes this is a very impressive gage to go to if one has the room. I spent last weekend at my brothers and we Layed 80 ft of track to the existing RR and finally got to run a train. We have a KCS F unit that operates on battery and has a Phoneix sound system in it plus a 0-4-0 side rod diesel 44 tonner. Will go back next spring to help lay more track. Later RJD


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

The drive wheel castings showed up a couple of weeks ago and I have been hard at work making the chips fly on my lathe. The wheels are about 6” in diameter which is about the maximum my lathe can handle. These take a long time to turn and it’s definitely been a learning experience. Now all I have to do is machine thee more to the same tolerances. No easy feat for a guy who usually goes by “the ten foot rule” (if it looks good from ten feet away, than it’s OK).


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Joel, 

Did you paint the wheel before turning, or after? Also, I was under the impression that the usual method for turning a set of wheels like this would be to do each machining step on all of the castings before moving on to the next step, thus ensuring that they are all identical even when your measurements are off.


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

I painted the wheel after turning, and yes, it probably would have been better to follow each machining step on each wheel but that would eliminate all of the adrenalin and excitement that comes from the possibility of screwing up a $55.00 part. 
Dang-it why didn’t I think of that!!!


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

No need to worry! Just machine the rest of the wheels to match, then take a very light cut off of all 4 to make sure they are identical. 

Also, if you paint before turning, then maybe you won't have to worry about masking? I really don't know whether or not it's a good idea to turn a painted part like that, but if it's ok, that's one less step to bother with.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautious! 

I just noticed that I said I'd make a railroad out of Caleb and Ethan


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Wow, that's cool!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

You made a mistake. This is "LARGE SCALE" not "HUEMONGGUS LARGE SCALE"

Keep posting pictutres I would like to see your progress.

Seeing your Machining pic's could be applied to Large Scale some where along the way.


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

I have a little more progress to report on.
The first task completed was to get the drive wheels quartered. I did this by building a simple plywood jig to hold the wheels in the proper position while they are being quartered.
The wheels may not be at exactly 90 degrees, but because both sets were done on the same jig the error will be the same on both and because this is an electric locomotive, I do not have to worry about valve timing.








The second project was to make some blocks to hold the axle bearings. 








Finlay, I was able to borrow a friend’s Mig welder to weld up the side frames. 








I have also fabricated some frame spaces but have not gotten any photos of them yet. I hope to get these installed this week and get some photos.
Joel


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By afinegan on 10/02/2008 1:22 PM
I am trying to figure out a way to afford this one day. They say the pieces go together like a swiss watch!
Looks like an aster kit, just alot bigger. 


http://livesteamparts.com/new_page_1.htm 
http://livesteamparts.com/cgi-bin/online/storepro.php

Andrew




You might also look at Maxitrak in the UK. They are a LOT less expensive than OS


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

A little more progress to report on the Porter.
The bearing blocks are in place complete with springs and the motor mounts have been fabricated and installed. This locomotive will be powered by two bicycle motors from electricscooterparts.com.
I should have a running chaises very soon.


















Joel


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Great to see the progress of the loco. Later RJD


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

[No message]


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

That's great! I look forward to seeing you run it, or for that matter ride it, on the rails.


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

For Valentine’s Day my wife gave me an air nibbler from harbor freight. Clearly, she still loves me…but wants me out of the house.
I was able to put it to good use and did a lot of sheet metal work over the past few weeks. 









To start with, I cut out the rear battery cover and bent it so that it would appear to be the fire box. 









I then welded some sheet metal on the back. 










The saddle tanks also got some sheet metal stuck on the side that will allow the tank to sit just above the second marine battery. 









I spent all day last Saturday going around Goodwill and Salvation Army stores looking for old pots and pans that could possibly be used as steam and sand domes. I had very little luck but was able to stumble upon a real gem. Sitting in the bottom of a bin was a set of wall lamps with metal shades. These will be perfect for a diamond stack!



























More photos to fallow


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Rangerjoel,

 I would also check a large flower shop for pots for domes, also pvc plastic pipe, maybe 4" or 6" schedual 40 withe an end cap?? Just an idea, hope it helps
Very clever work to make that stack. Engine looks good.

Chuck


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2009)

there exist aluminium cooking pots with rounded bottom. if you find the right size...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

How did they come up with 7.5 gauge? Why 7.5?


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## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

This project is GREAT! I've been watching this progress with great interest, as very close friends of ours are installing a 7.5" line on their farm. This build is a true inspiration and very fun to watch! 

Keep the pics coming!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Standard gauge trains at 1 1/2" scale run on 7.5" track. It's been one of the common scales in live steam for almost a century.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Just came back to the thread to see the progress. Love the way you've used "Goodwill" and other non-railroad parts to put it all together...   

Looks great. Super job, Joel. 

7.5 inch is a great scale. We're "out of area" members of the The Other MLS in North Phoenix but don't own any 7.5 stuff.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ,

The 7.5 inch gauge "story" ia a long and convoluted one for sure. I heard this version when I belonged to the Goleta Valley Railroad Club, in Santa Barbara, CA. Our club was on the property of Seymour Johnson (CEO of Johnson Controls). The tale went something like this: Many GI's returning from Europe after WWII, had seen ride-on trains gauged at 7.25 inches or their metric equivalent. That's why MOST live steam tracks in New England are still gauged at 7.25 inches. Seymour Johnson wrote to someone in Europe, to verify the gauge when he started building his 1.5 Northern in the late forties. Somewhere in the translation, it came out to 7.5 inch gauge. When Walt Disney built his home railroad in Holmby Hills, CA in the late forties or early fifties, he had it gauged to 7.125, accurate to 1.5 inch per foot! Now there are FINESCALE locomotives built for 7.5 inch gauge AND scale at 1.6 inch per foot. Maybe someone knows another story. This is the ONE I heard. Sounds good to me.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

From the Mason- Dixon line north and east of Ohio most 1 1/2 scale is 7.25 Gauge The story told to me was someone was sent out to measure the track gauge.. they measured a section of 7.25 gauge track from outside of one rail to the inside of the other and came up with 7.5. then 1.6 scale came about to match the "new" track gauge.. Those guys would never even consider something like 1:29 on gauge one track.. hehe


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff,

That story sounds plasible to me! The guys I heard it from were in their eighties in 1980! Like a fisherman's rale where the fish gets longer and longer and ...........


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I had read on the Chaski Machinists board several years ago that the story was someone on the west coast wrote to someone on the east coast what the gauage was and the response was supposed to 7.25, but person that typed the letter left out the 2 and that resulted in the person on the west coast building to 7.5... and when the discrepancy was discovered it was too late to modify the engine he was building and they figured they were so far apart they'd never, ever share track or cars. Had no idea that somewhere in the middle between them people would be building to one or the other gauges and might actually get to share trackage/cars/engines.


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi all, I have a lot of progress to report today.
To start with, I was able to put my milling machine to work building some dogs for the front of the smoke box. WOW, what a difference it makes having a good tool to work with!
Below is a photo of the finished dogs in place. 










The next project was to attach the smoke box to the water tank. This was easily done because both parts have a wooden skeleton so it was simply a matter of screwing them together. 









You will also notice that the sand dome and smoke stack are in place. The sand dome was a $9.00 stainless steel pot from K-mart and the remainder of the smoke stack is made of standard ABS pipe fittings. 


















I also started work on the locomotive cylinders which are made of ABS plastic. I could have cut these slots on the table saw, but I figured I should start making my mill earn it’s keep in the garage. 



















I also had a chance to take the loco to a member of the Redwood Empire Live Steamers for a quick run on a section of club track. The loco worked fine, but we discovered that the drivers are not within ILBS wheel standards. Looks like I will have to spread them a little further apart. I’m going to wait on this until I have a dial caliper large enough to check my work!


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## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

Thanks for keeping us updated and the pics!


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

More progress has been made.
I built a number plate out of a candle holder that I picked up at the good will store for $1 and a house number that I got at my local hardware store. I also received a set of wheels from RMI the other day for the construction of the trailing truck. The wheels were around $23 each and were a bargain as they came machined and ready to go. I am now in the process of building bearing blocks nearly identical to those used earlier in the project.
Finally, The Redwood Empire Live Steamers have begun to lay track in a park in Santa Rosa. As soon as I learned this, I had to cart my loco out to the location and snap some photos of it on the track. There is still a lot of work to be done on both the track and the loco, but you can see that both are taking shape nicely.
Joel


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

She's looking great Joel. 

Keep the pics coming. 

Randy


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

*Thats great looking Loc. and nice work.. Even have the right steam dome on it.. laf...







* Just had to put that in.. NOEL[/b]


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

More progress to report.
I have been able to secure the cylinders to the plywood frame. This was done by cutting a rectangular piece of sheet metal, drilling a hole in the center of it and then inserting it into the cylinder and bolting in place.
I also was able to complete the valve gear and test it out. It is not quite ready for Train Mountain, but at least I will get a chance to run it at our next club meet.
Check out the video below. 



I also have been busy working on a web page for our local live steam club. Check out the link and let me know what you think. 
Redwood Empire Live Steamers

Joel


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Joel, 

Not to be too nitpicky, but how hard would it be to move the cylinders down so they're in line with the axles? It seems to me that most locomotives had the cylinder center line even with the driven axle. If you don't want to move the whole assembly down, mounting them on an angle like Porter did would look good and be prototypical. That way they stay high, but line up with the rear axle. 

Just a suggestion for a beautiful model tat I'm sure will be a crowd pleaser. Keep up the good work!


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

It’s been a long time since I have posted, but I have been very busy during that time. The photos below will attest to that!


















I started by completing the installation of the drive rods and piston rods. I checked for binding and had no trouble. 


















I then fabricated a frame to mount the pilot beam to and fashioned a pilot beam out of oak. All the bolts got a coat of “brass black” (witch reacts with the zinc plating to turn them black)
The Head lamp is made of sheet metal and incorporates a bulb and reflector form a cheap 6 volt flashlight. 









I am working on the trailing truck and hope to have it ready to go by the first of August.
Joel


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## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

Joel, 
This project is looking GREAT!!!!!!!!!! What an inspiration this project is for building one yoursef!


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I liked that quartering jig!


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

Ranger Joel, I tried to send you a message, but something went wrong. I'm new to this site, so I haven't figured out how to get around yet or post pictures. I see you are in Sanra Rosa. I lived 17 years in San Rafael and my parents lived in Santa Rosa. We were originally from New York City. I now live in Mississippi. I also build locomotives in 1:8 scale and from wood. I use some metals and plastics also. I've nuilt a 4-4-0 camelback locomotive of the Reading RR. It is powered by a motor from a kids sidewalk car and a 12V storage battery. I'm not too keen on steam loco prototypes. My latest is a model of a class D, 1-C-1 electric locomotive that was used on the Swedish State Railways. I chose this prototype because it actually had a wood body. Although I have an 11" engine lathe and a milling machine, I chose to machine the drivers from Baltic Birch plywood instead of cast iron (too much $). They seem to be holding up ok. Motive power is supplied by a 24V scooter motor and storage batteries. As soon as I figure out how to post pictures, I will send you some.
What ever got you started on building locomotives in wood? I like the scale because I can do details that are too fragile in a smaller scale. I also have a complete 1200 sf shop full of woodworking tools, so with those and my metal working tools, I can build just about anything. I started to build a live steamer in 1:12 scale when I lived in San Rafael, but the cost was getting to be more than I could afford. I still have the chassis and drivers machined. Maybe one day, I can find a use for the drivers. I like building in this scale. You pretty much have to invent everything from scratch. It's a unique challenge that requires lots of innovating. I'm retired now and I have the time to spend. I hope I can lay some track. (I have 8 acres). I'm certain my locomotives are strong enough for my kids to ride on. I'm glad I found you. You are the only person I know who builds like I do.


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

Here is a photo of one of my 1:8 scale locomotives. I hope this link works. It's a 4-4-0 camelback of the Reading RR in 1:8 scale. About 90% complete. The tender is on the left.


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

Here is a photo of a Swedish State Railways electrin locomotive in 1:8 scale as of 09-23-2009. It's about 70% complete


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## terry_n_85318 (Jan 3, 2008)

Here's my 2.5" scale Mich-Cal shay. Maiden run this Saturday... 

http://members.trainorders.com/terry_n_85318/P8290115.JPG 

Terry


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

Joel, Your Porter is looking good. I want to apoligize for my pictures. They shouldn't have been there. When I heard about your 7.5 project, my enthusiasm got carried away. I will repost on my own thread.


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

7 1/16" gauge would be correct for standard gauge 4'- 8 1/2".


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mr Ron on 25 Sep 2009 02:22 PM 
7 1/16" gauge would be correct for standard gauge 4'- 8 1/2".
This may be techically correct. However, unless you want your stuff to be completely insular (unable to run anywhere else) then your choice is 7-1/2" gauge for most of the US, or 7-1/4" gauge in New England and much of the rest of the world.


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

This may be techically correct. However, unless you want your stuff to be completely insular (unable to run anywhere else) then your choice is 7-1/2" gauge for most of the US, or 7-1/4" gauge in New England and much of the rest of the world.
I agree 100%. I was just wondering why 7 1/2 and 7 1/4 were adopted in the first place.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mr Ron on 27 Sep 2009 11:59 AM 
This may be techically correct. However, unless you want your stuff to be completely insular (unable to run anywhere else) then your choice is 7-1/2" gauge for most of the US, or 7-1/4" gauge in New England and much of the rest of the world.
I agree 100%. I was just wondering why 7 1/2 and 7 1/4 were adopted in the first place. 

Read my post back at 14 Mar 2009 04:59 PM for the reason for the two different gauges.


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## Signalman63 (Jul 30, 2016)

Has anybody heard of the Backyard Train Co. out of Colorado? They make 1'', 1.5 and 1.6 scale electric locomotives. I was looking for some information and some review input on them as i'm interested in buying a 1.6 scale locomotive and am still new to the hobby. Has anyone heard anything bad about them or their products?


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Might want to pm or email Marty. He has some videos on YouTube with a BY SW running. Looks to run very well indeed. I too have looked at them but limited funding currently makes it a non issue.


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