# USA Trains J1e Hudson under MTH DCS



## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I'm getting my USA Hudson conversion to the MTH Proto-Sound 2 Control pretty much wrapped so I thought that I'd share it with folks on the forum!!











Here's the basic PS2 electronic install...









Here's a comparison shot of the crappy stock TAStudios smokeunit and the excellent MTH Hudson type...









Here's the factory swtch box that's been somewhat modified as follows, PS2 battery charge port, light switch controls both engine & tender marker/classification lights and the smoke switch still controls the MTH smoke unit on/off but only in conventional operating mode.










This switch box on the firemans side controls the track polarity via the sound on/off switch. The center hole will be left blank but the round hole will have a round volume knob/potentiometer again used only under conventonal control.










Here's a short video and again a thanks to Raymond for his expert advise & wisdom with this conversion...









USA Hudson Under MTH DCS


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Hey Chuck, holly Cow. Now that's called "smoke'm if you've got'm". Two pictures did not show up. The ps2 install and the smoke comparison of the TAS and Proto2. Now I'll bet that hudson is your favorite, Joe


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

They should show up now as I was editng the size as they were way too big...like 1024 wide...ooops!!


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe, I'm tellin' ya, yes it is my favorite but I still have a few things to work on before I'm officially done...like getting some smoke to emit from cylinders..maybe..


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Chuck you did it!!!!! good for you...i'll be a S.O.B.







you did it!!!!!!! you just gave me a stiffy







...... i cant believe you drilled out that motor and got the flywheel on it? you da man..... Ray you watching RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!! sweet sweet sweet....... chuck i have a blank check written out to you name your price$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ oooo by the way did i say name your price $$$$$$$$$$$$ i can always use a 4th usa hudson best 1/29th scaled loco ever made..
Nick.....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Come on Chuck, tell us how you really feel about the TAS smoke unit! 

Ha ha... 

Regards, Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, I like those TAStudios smoke units as much as I like Team Large Scale...









Nick, yeah that flywheeling bit is a major PIA...

Here's the armature removed from the motor...









Chucked in the lathe and drilling...









Back together and not much shaft poking thru to work with...









Turn a flywheel outta brass and install...this is the first flywheel and it proved to be to small...endedup with the largest that would fit..2"!!









Next loco I attempt will be either a K4 that I recently aquired or a Great Trains F-40PH...


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Congrats on your (near) completion and great job! This is probably the first engine with DCS that has the MTH smoke unit in it.

LOL I sure am Nick and have my pencil and paper out taking notes. " src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" /> You know what he's going to convert next dont you?









You are getting great smoke velocity out of that thing. Do you charge extra to get it to blow those cool *** smoke rings? LOL Personally I think the engine is just showing off. The only one I've ever seen do that is my MTH Hudson and it only does it every now and then. 

I remember seeing the Big Boy video and the low smoke velocity with the stock units in it. Maybe can post it here, it might provide some sort of idea / comparison Joe is mentioning? 

I was really disappointed with what I saw in the Big Boy video as I was hoping I could use them in conversions with really small boilers. Do you think the stock smoke unit fan would push more air if it was controlled by the DCS board? And what doesn't make sense to me is that the aristocraft smoke units have a much greater smoke velocity than the TA ones in the Big Boy and the Aristo has a tiny little fan motor.


Raymond


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## johnnyjt (Mar 11, 2009)

Hi Chuck

I just love your Big Boy and Hudson.

Do all USAT Hudsons lack flywheels?


JohnnyJT
South Philly


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Most G scale locos do not have flywheels! 


The rotational mass of the drivetrain is usually enough, and it really does not make much difference in running, from many people investigating... Aristo steamers have brass "flywheels" between gearboxes at each axle, and it does not make them run any different than their diesels with the same gearboxes and no flywheels. 


Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Johnny, Wow!! I've forgotten all about this thread..








No, The USAT Hudson's don't have flywheels factory installed but it really isn't that big of a job to do. What's odd is that the USAT Big Boy, 0-6-0 Docksider and all of the 6 wheeled diesel drive blocks have flywheels. Infact I'll bet that close to 50% of all large scale engines come equipped with flywheels as they really do make a huge difference in performance unless the drivetrain can freewheel and to the best of my knowledge only the AML K4 can do this.

Raymond, Since I posted about this conversion a year ago much headway has been made into getting the stock USA smoke units to perform magnificently


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't want to start a fight Chuck, but if I am wrong: "Most G scale locos do not have flywheels! ", I'd want to be corrected. 

The 6 wheeled USAT blocks don't have flywheels as I remember, am I wrong? 

The 4 wheeled USAT blocks don't have flywheels. 

The 6 wheeled Aristo blocks do 

The 4 wheeled Aristo blocks do not. 

The Aristo steamers have flywheels. 

I do not believe all the Bachmann locos have flywheels. 

All MTH do of course. 

In terms of numbers, Aristo far outsells MTH and USAT. The number of 6 wheeled locos is fewer than 4 wheeled diesels, both in models offered and numbers produced, definitely for Aristo and USAT, I do not have the G scale numbers for NTH. So, I would say again, most G scale locomotives do not have flywheels. 

Please let me know where I am wrong, I really do not want to present incorrect information. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. I am making no judgement on how hard it is to retrofit a flywheel, looks pretty easy on Chuck's lathe!


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

While it is may be true that 
". . . Aristo steamers have brass "flywheels" between gearboxes at each axle, and it does not make them run any different than their diesels with the same gearboxes and no flywheels.. . . " 

I believe that the aristo flywheels are not motor mounted but (as I remember) are on the part of the drive train that has lower RPM's that the motor shaft. This matters if you want a big flywheel effect. Years ago there was a traction modeler whose O gauge trolleys (Sacramento Northern Interurbans, scratchuilt) had big flywheels on the motors. If the train derailed and lost contact with power, it just kept going, even if it fell to the floor... 

Greg


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

I don't know why Greg's name is at the bottom of my post; my apologies


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo Steam motor block (from a Mallet)










The motor is the silver part at extreme right, it drives a geabox, and the other side of the gearbox drives a flywheel, etc. This is the Aristo "prime mover" modular gearbox which is used in the more current locomotives, all 3 axle motor blocks, the GP40, and all the steamers except the 0-4-0.




Regards, Greg


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom,[/b] 

Aristo flywheels do run the same RPM as the motor shaft, They all run straight inline with the motor shaft.
[/b]
Rex[/b]


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## stevieb (Nov 22, 2009)

Well Greg, who cares which manufacture has flywheels or not. There are severial people in the business that will make a flywhell to fit and work in your 
loco for a charge. I have a USA J1e Hudson that will be convered sometime soon and the person that does my loco's does a very good job and the 
converision will be a MTH DCS. I love my MTH DCS products and they have up dates very regularly and I don't hear of other manufactures having 
improved updates. I have read some of your opinion about MTH and If you don't like them, then don,t buy !


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I would certainly care whether or not a loco had a flywheel. If I were planning to convert a loco to MTS, it make a significant difference in the cost and complexity of the job. I would certainly want to know because it would probably mean the difference between doing the job myself or sending it away to someone else. I think Greg's done us a favor by posting it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Stevie, I was only objecting to the statement: 

" Infact I'll bet that close to 50% of all large scale engines come equipped with flywheels" (From Chuck) 

It's not true... you missed the point... read carefully... 

Johnnyjt asked: "Do all USAT Hudsons lack flywheels?" 

I stated that most G scale locos do not have flywheels... 

Chuck said they did... 

Why did I respond? Because someone asked a question, AND I gave careful consideration (and continue to do so) to going 1:32 and to MTH... 

I also considered the costs and effort of conversion of my 1:29 locos... There's some great things about the MTH system, and more to come I hear...

So, I knew the answer... because I actually have looked into it... 

Greg


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## stevieb (Nov 22, 2009)

Well Greg, I appreciate your feelings about this subject, this a costly hobby but I came into this hobby with the idea of modeling after a certain road and I realized that I would have a few conversions because : not every supplier had the engine I needed so I was smart enough to put my math hat on ond come up with a budget for purchase plus conversions. I also do something else, I read these forums that people like yourself give all these suggestions to 
and then I call a supplier and talk with there techs explaining that a fellow by the name of Greg said this or that about there product and you should hear there responce. Buy the way Greg, when you say things like I knew the answer........ because I actually have looked into it... Could you tell us where you got the info so we can see it ourselves. My point here is that if you want to be in this hobby bring your cash or learn how to do this yourself because those who are doing the conversion are charging for the time that it would take you plus parts. Stevieb


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

Chuck, Nice engine









So why the big discussion about flywheels when the topic is about a USA Trains Hudson?? It's very clear that the author wrote about how he made one so my question is why Greg has tried to divert away from the original subject and that being a Hudson that is converted to DCS..and a remarkable job of doing that to a beautiful piece of machinery


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Didn't try to divert it, the OP asked if all locos came with flywheels, because he is considering getting locos converted. 

A reasonable question. 

Someone stated that most locos came with flywheels, which is not true. 

If someone wants to keep arguing, they can. 

Greg 

p.s. you don't have to talk about me in the third person, address me directly.


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

But Greg here's the original OP post question about a flywheel for a USA Hudson. 

Hi Chuck 

I just love your Big Boy and Hudson. 

Do all USAT Hudsons lack flywheels? 


JohnnyJT 
South Philly 

Greg here's your reply to that qustion 


Most G scale locos do not have flywheels! 

The question was do USA Hudson's have flywheels not do ALL large scale engines have flywheels so to me you are trying to divert the subject.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You know, you expressed displeasure with derailing the thread... but you need to READ THE THREAD.... read down 2 posts... 

" Infact I'll bet that close to 50% of all large scale engines come equipped with flywheels " 

You really need to read the entire thread and not skim it if you want to attack someone. 

Greg 

p.s. in addition, most people are of the opinion that the flywheels in G scale do not do much to help performance also, but I did not want to start an argument, because that is more opinion, and not able to be proved by facts. The FACT that 50% of all large scale engines do NOT have flywheels is easily shown, even if someone does not want to believe it.


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

Sorry Mr. Greg but I'm not really attacking anybody on here but it seems that you're attacking me. 

You never did answer my post which question why you replied that most large scale engines don't have flwheels when the question was does all USAT Hudsons not have a flywheel. 

Infact you contradict yourself in your last post where you state that 50% of large scale engines do not have flywheels..I look at that as half of all engines in large scale have flywheels..so if the manufacturers are installing them then they must do some good? By your opinion they don't but whatever..I'm not impressed 

You know you jumped on me earlier for talking about you in the third person but in your above post you do the same thing with your "most people are of the opinion that the flywheels in G scale do not do much to help performance also"..So I'll ask like steveb did earlier and where do you come up with FACTS for this statement?? 

I just looked at your website and you have no writeups on the USA Trains Hudson so I guess you don't own one?? Guess not because in this thread you never complimented what a fine job that USA Trains did making this superb model. 

FYI you are totally wrong about the Aristo 6 wheel drive blocks having flwheels because they don't..I figured that you knew that because you own one yes??


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Casey Jones, Greg consistently posts accurate information. His website has been an invaluable resource for me. It's really terrific that you like your Hudson--by all accounts, it's an excellent engine. If you follow the course of this thread, you will see how the flywheel question came up. It's perfectly reasonable to know and useful for anyone who wants to consider converting an engine to MTH.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

CaseyJones, whoever you are, I'm not responding to you any more, I believe you are not reading or comprehending the simple facts that are on this thread in black and white. 

I apologize to the rest of the people on the thread, I like the Hudson a lot, and intend to get one, based on the recommendations of many. Sorry to go down this path. 

Regards, Greg


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## stevieb (Nov 22, 2009)

Hay Mr. Greg, Do you wonder why so many of us are pushing you to the wall. Could it be you are not that correct on various subjects? I have been on your web- site severial times looking for that real important subject that you might inlighten me with but I still have a problem finding anything of value or anything you can give a reference to that I can double check what you are saying is somewhat correct. I see other hobbist making statements and they give you references and show pitures of results like "CHuck" did when he made flywheels. I don't see that kind of good stuff from you . But you just kept acting like a teenager, blame every body else for your short comeings. Oh buy the way I am not talking to you in the third person, HUH ! 
Neither was Chuck when he Show you and us plus "GOD" your statment " MOST G SCALE LOCOS DO NOT HAVE FLYWHEELS ! 
Have a good DAY ! Stevieb


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This hobby has a very high level of crazy people in it. Crazy people who don't make any sense.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 13 Mar 2010 08:55 PM 
This hobby has a very high level of crazy people in it. Crazy people who don't make any sense. 

Hmmmmmmmm, Might you point out who you might be talkin about ?







Historys a b--------tch.


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## stevieb (Nov 22, 2009)

Hello Mr. Lownote, Are you and Chuck really close ? Like I said once before, knowing if a loco has a flywheel or not means little if you want a good DCS system in your locos. You are going to have to have some big money in this hobby. If you can't afford this hobby then you should consider O' scale or HO which you can have everything and save you some money. If you can make a flywheel for those locos then say so ! some of us may give some business. It sounds like you are pretty handy, why don"t you leave Gregs house and live by yourself and work with soneone else. Become a beliver in people like "CHUCK" because Greg is going no where with everyone on the Forum. It is up to you don't be a Bubba ! 
Stevieb


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Stevie, when you grow up and learn to spell, you can call others a teenager... right now your immaturity is showing. Calling others names is typical. If you found nothing of value on my site, then your ability to read must be in lockstep with your command of grammar and spelling. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ooooooooooh!!!!!!n Ah! 

What part of, "most Large Scale locos do not have flywheels", don't the great unwashed understand?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By stevieb on 13 Mar 2010 09:21 PM 
Hello Mr. Lownote, Are you and Chuck really close ? Like I said once before, knowing if a loco has a flywheel or not means little if you want a good DCS system in your locos. You are going to have to have some big money in this hobby. If you can't afford this hobby then you should consider O' scale or HO which you can have everything and save you some money. If you can make a flywheel for those locos then say so ! some of us may give some business. It sounds like you are pretty handy, why don"t you leave Gregs house and live by yourself and work with soneone else. Become a beliver in people like "CHUCK" because Greg is going no where with everyone on the Forum. It is up to you don't be a Bubba ! 
Stevieb 
LOL!!


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

* OMG This thread is getting funnier every time i look.





















*


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## stevieb (Nov 22, 2009)

Mr. Greg, you are right, I made some spelling mistakes however, my point was well made and I was watching the BIG EAST basketball tournament at the same time I was writing to you and your buddies. My team won the championship! I should feel bad that you are attacking me about my command of grammer and English but I don't! My team played well and won the championship , HA ! HA! I can always bitch at you, but watching my team win comes once a year. 

1. Having a bad web-site - you need to work hard and get something interesting on that thing ! 
2.How about doing some" flywheels" that would be impressive. You can take pictures, we might believe you then. 
3. CaseyJones, had the proof of your statement about flywheels and you still had something gooy to say, "NO I DID NOT SAY THAT" UUUUUUUUUH! excuses me, I forgot what I said ! that was not a good answer. Stevieb


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Griefers! 

Nobody is paying for help in this forum, it's a take what works and leave the rest. 
Why be a fool? 
Some keep proving it..... and No you probably won't know who you are. 

Amatuers! lol 

Aristocraft's wheels aren't true flywheels because of lower RPM, but they do add some low center of gravity wt.


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## johnnyjt (Mar 11, 2009)

Gee wiz guys, I had know idea I would set off a fire storm. 
I just wanted to know if all the USAT Hudson were made with 
out FWs. I know they upgrade some of their locos eg. 
older diesels have smoke with no fans and newer ones do. 
Oh my! I hope a don't do it again. 

JohnnyJT 
South Philly


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Not your fault Johnny. If you couldn't figure out the reason why from this exchange, just stick around long enough, it will come clear. Folks like Chuck, Nick, Steve and myself actually use DCS. (Not sure if Casey is running DCS or not) Chuck and I have done a lot of work with regards to adding flywheels to a number of engines and have had hands on experience with a good number of mfg motorblocks. 

None of the USATrain Hudson were made with flywheels. Future ones may, but I doubt they will implement a design change like that. If you need one done Chuck can do it. USA Trains latest steamer, the Big Boys did have flywheels so that may be a sign they will do it on most future steamers. 

If you have future questions on DCS or flywheel related stuff, feel free to email me directly, may save a lot of wasted time here. 

If you want to see more videos of Chuck's Hudson smokin it up, check out the videos page on my website. 


Raymond


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## johnnyjt (Mar 11, 2009)

I just love MTH DCS! I own in O Gauge ... Big Boy, Hudson, K4, Greenbrier, 
2 GG1s, Genesis P42 and Shark I converted from Williams. I do own USAT GG1 
which I do know it has flywheels. I also have a Aristo FA with a QSI drop-in board 
and a LGB Genesis which I installed a MRC sound board with 10 conductor harness 
with seperate head lights, ditch lights and rear lights which works pretty good. 
I just love when blow the horn and the ditch lights flash. I don't know why QSI 
is taking so long with AUX light board? I just went with MRC board. Right now 
I am using QSI Quantum CV Managers Cab with Lenz LV102 at 22 volts. Sometimes 
I use MRCs little Black Box works great!. 
MTH sounds are great but all the steamer sound the same except of course the 
chug of the Big Boy. Did all real steamer sound the same? MTH also needs a some 
new crew voices! 

JohnnyJT








South Philly


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