# Yet another pop can project



## GaryR (Feb 6, 2010)

This the container I made for a flat car load. The tool/die is very similar to the standing seam roof tool. In this case only the guide pins are metal. Aircraft grade basswood is used for most of the rest. The basswood I get from < http://lonestar-balsa.com/ >


----------



## Jonnychuffchuff (Dec 24, 2010)

BION I've stared at it for at least five minutes, Gary. I see holes matching a pair of metal posts. I see parallel strips of wood. I see parallel gaps between them These gaps seem to have square section wood in them, possibly removable. I see an inexplicable frame-like structure on the right, with what appears to be a bottle cap on it. There's a rectangle of black shiny stuff, possibly a flat piece of metal about to be formed (?). It might be the flattened out wall of an aluminum can (? again) There's a sample of standing rib material that looks great! There's also a finished container, which looks very impressive. 
But how it all works together is, I'm afraid, quite beyond my ken. 
I appreciate your effort to teach me further, 
your most unworthy pupil. ;-)


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I think this is a variation of the construction method shown on Page 42 in an article featured in this month's _Garden Railways Magazine_. I think it's a great idea and was considerning making an aluminum form to do this on my CNC machine. Could even make a nice commercial venture.

BTW, It's not a bottle cap. It is a magnet painted to reduce it scratching and is used to hold the working piece in place when making the first crease. Once the first crease is made, subsequent creases are performed using the form and the magnet is no longer used for that piece.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

JohnnyCC, 
If you look up his silo post you'll have a better grasp of the concept, The yellow button is a magnet that traps the loose end of the sheet to be embossed. The magnet allows a tad of slippage as the former pulls metal into the corners of the embossed ribbs. He works from one side advancing the sheet as Ribs are pressed. 
Advance sheet, place top on and set on floor, step on it ya big pnuematic hammer you ...pick it up, seperate, advance and repeat... 
black shiny is steel for magnet. 

Quiz at 11. 

See ya 

John


----------



## GaryR (Feb 6, 2010)

Maybe this will help.











Actually I think you saw quite a bit Jonny. I baby sat engineers for 40 years making their machines do what was intended. Sometime I forget it's not everybody's thing.

Thanks Tod and Wrecker. Tod is an other one that has work appear In GR from time to time.  

GaryR


----------



## Robert (Jan 2, 2008)

Very cool. That's quite a jig.


----------



## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Genius!!! 


-Kevin.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Questions:

1. Does the metal stretch to form the corregations or does the overall length of the piece of metal get shorter to accomodate the folds?

2. What is the difference between the thickness of the ribs of the lower section and the gaps between the pieces in the upper part?

3. Do you oil or grease the metal/wood to make it easier to press the form halves together?


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nicely done, Gary..... Using a great deal of ingenuity in a very clever way....


----------



## Jonnychuffchuff (Dec 24, 2010)

Semper V. It is written, 'In order to learn a thing, try to teach it.' Thus, worm of a novice that I am, I venture to instruct you thusly: 
One rib is made at a time, in these photos, from right to left. After each formation of a rib the top of the form is lifted, then the metal is shifted one rib to the left, the top is replaced and the following rib is formed. Each formed rib serves to anchor the metal, so that after the first one, when the metal is held in place but allowed to slip by the magnet, the magnet is no longer necessary. The metal being formed does not stretch, but rather as each rib is formed the metal moves, from its position on the right, into the form by the amount required by the dimension of the new-formed rib. The already formed ribs in the left of the form exert enormous braking power. 
The key concept is one rib at a time. Thank you Gary and you others here for illuminating this humble, worthless pupil. As I stand on my press I shall stand in awe.


----------



## GaryR (Feb 6, 2010)

Right on all points Jonny. 

Semper brings up some interesting points. No lube is used. The "clearance" tween the parts of the die is near zero at the time of construction. 
As it is used the first few times, this opens up just a bit, being made of wood. The pop can thickness is about .004 inch. Where the die made of metal, 
yes, you'd have to have clearance built in. 

Any tool makers out there would instantly recognize it as a hybrid progressive permanent die, often mounted in a press. Not genius, just experience. 
but I do appreciate the thought.  

GaryR


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I see no real reason that a "die" couldn't be made that could press all of the ridges simultaneously. It would take more pressure and the metal would just stretch to conform. Pehaps the metal could first be heated to make it more maliable. It could probably be done in a bench vice rather than stomping on it.

One could simply figure how big a "sheet" could be produced from a soda can and put in the appropriate number of ribs for a given scale. A "rectangle" could be stamped around the whole piece, simultaneously, to provice a nice "cut-out" line for the finished rectangular sheet.

This would be an easy program in G-code.


----------



## GaryR (Feb 6, 2010)

Hope you have better luck than I did Tod. When I tried it the sheet tore in 3 or 4 places. And yes, it was annealed to dead soft. 
The only reason I made it outa wood is I couldn't afford to buy the steel bar stock for it from McMaster Carr. Then I could have 
used tin plate in my 6 ton press. 

GaryR


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

The problem with using tin plate and a 6-ton press is that it becomes beyond the common person to do. Most hobbiests would already have a bench vice. 
Even CNC'ing a form for your "step-by-step" approach could be done in metal to produce a nice product.


----------



## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Aluminum can stock is usually a 6000 series material, 6061 or 6063. The drawing process of making the can tempers the aluminum to somewhere between T4 and T6 making the thin section of the can incredibly strong. For best results in forming that material again, as Gary did, annealing is a good bet. However annealing also brings the material back to a T0 (no temper - weakest state). Attempting to form all the 'ridges' simultaneously means that the material must stretch to compensate for the additional length required to make the forming between each ridge. IF you had enough pressure to do the forming, the .004 thickness will not provide enough material to stretch. Second, having taken most of the strength out of the sheet, there is little left to keep the sheet from ripping at the fold points, which weaken the material even more during forming. 

IF the process were done in a rack and pinion fashion where the process is continuous, but the ridges are formed one at a time, that would stand a better chance of being successful. Personally, I don't intend to invest the time quotient required to develop rolling dies for some beer can siding, Gary's works well enough that I will most likely finish the siding much faster than the beer. 

Bob C.


----------



## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I have no knowledge of any of this, and I don't know if I'll ever attempt to perform this type of work, but I find this very informative and interesting. Thank you for sharing it. 

JackM


----------

