# 1:29-1:32 equipment that would look OK on Narrow Gauge 45 mm railroads



## trainguy111 (Sep 7, 2010)

Which locomotives and rolling stock between the scale ranges of 1:29 and 1:32 would look fine on narrow gauge 45 mm railroads? So far, I'm told that the Piko 0-6-0T and the Aristocraft 2-4-2 would look fine. Is there anything else?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

"would look fine" is a grey area..and a matter of opinion!  
in my opinion, NO standard gauge 1/29 or 1/32 locomotive would "look fine" on a Narrow gauge layout.. 
They might "fit" in size..but not in style.. 

There are locomotives that can be adapted to a "Narrow gauge look"..with some tweaking of cabs and other details.. 
but I wouldnt say any unmodified Standard gauge locos or rolling stock really work as-is.. 

but as with everything else in this hobby, what "looks fine" is a matter of taste! 
If it looks fine to you, then it IS fine!  
for me, it wouldnt look good..but thats me. 

Scot


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By trainguy111 on 28 Dec 2010 04:45 AM 
Which locomotives and rolling stock between the scale ranges of 1:29 and 1:32 would look fine on narrow gauge 45 mm railroads? So far, I'm told that the Piko 0-6-0T and the Aristocraft 2-4-2 would look fine. Is there anything else?


That's a rather odd question, if you don't mind me saying so. Care to clarify?

If it's 1/32 - 1/29th scale, then it won't look "fine" on a 45mm narrow gauge 1/20th scale railroad - it will look too small, if you are fussy about such things. If you are not fussy, then anything 1/32nd-1/29th will look OK.

It is accepted that a standard gauge 40' boxcar in 1/29th scale is about the same physical size as a 30' boxcar in 1/20th scale, and therefore they don't look bad together. [But if you're a nit-pickin' rivet-counter, go over to the One20point3 Group and read the thread on scale vs size!] 
Another way of looking at it is that a 1/32nd scale train, consisting of a loco and same-scale cars, will look fine running on a 45mm railroad of (almost) any scale, as will a 1/20th train. I built my garden railroad with 1/24th scale ties so that 1/32nd and 1/20th equipment looked reasonable on it - but not at the same time.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

As has been already noted, it is a matter of taste. That said, I have used the Aristo "Sierra" style passenger cars with narrow gauge locomotives. These cars are _supposed_ to be 1:29 scale and standard gauge. I'll allow those more learned than me to say whether these passenger cars really are 1:29 and standard gauge. To my eyes, at least, they fit right in with the narrow gauge equipment.

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## trainguy111 (Sep 7, 2010)

You see, according to this link: http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips4/rogers_tips.html, the man said that the 1/29 scale 2-4-2 should look like a toy next to the 4-6-2. But it doesn't.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Looks to me like the Rodgers loco and the Sierra cars are 1:24, which may be large enough to pass for old time equipment on the NG scales.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

That's a question that really cannot be answered definitively. There's lots that simply cannot, but some that can in certain circumstances but not others...

Some considerations... 

Era: Most narrow gauge operations in the US were long gone by the 1930s. Of those that remained, very few (notably the EBT, White Pass & Yukon, and US Gypsum's operation in Southern California) came close to using "modern" steel equipment. So if you're doing a "typical" narrow gauge operation, anything built from steel would be "wrong." That limits you to wood cars, of which very few examples are made by Aristo or USA (And USA's wood stuff isn't 1:29 anyway.) 

Size: If you do decide that your railroad has "modernized" to use steel and other modern construction techniques, there are a few other considerations to think about in terms of whether they "size" right for narrow gauge. First, there's the physical size of the car. Hopper cars "cross" scales rather well because a hopper is of such generic design, and the narrow gauge hoppers look like "scaled down" standard gauge hoppers anyway. In some cases, gondolas and flat cars are similar. USG's aluminum gondolas look every bit like modern standard gauge gons, only a bit smaller. If you're a "rivet counter," you'll probably find things like grab irons, stake pockets (on flat cars) and other items to be a bit on the smallish side, but we do know historically that "modern" steel cars tended to follow standard gauge practices of the time, so they'd look similar. Box cars and others would be different. They would have to be tall enough to accommodate people on the insides for loading and unloading. There are examples of early box cars (c. 1870s) that were barely tall enough for a person to stand upright inside, but builders quickly discovered that a few extra inches of headroom didn't make the car any more unstable, and were much more comfortable to work in. As such a "typical" 40' steel standard gauge box car would be too small for a modern narrow gauge box car because it would likely be a bit too low for crews to work in comfortably. Door openings of near 6' tall would be appropriate, and unless the 1:29/1:32 model was of something like a hi-cube box car, it just wouldn't cut it. 

The same holds true for any "human interface" details on the smaller-scale models. Things like cabs, doors, and other features have to be large enough for a person to fit through. See Ray Dunakin's thread on his RS-3 conversion to see all the work he's doing to that to make it more scale appropriate. None of the 1:29 or 1:32 passenger cars would be remotely appropriate--especially not for 1:20.3. Their Sierra cars may be okay-ish for 1:24 or 1:22, since I think they're not "exactly" 1:29 anyway, similar to how the Rogers 2-4-2 which isn't "exactly" 1:29 either. 

The other thing to consider is typical "loading gauge" of narrow gauge equipment. Loading gauge--for purposes of this discussion--is the width of the typical pieces of equipment. For US standard gauge, it's around 10'. For narrow gauge, it varied, but as a general rule, it increased over time. What that means for the narrow gauge modeler is that if you're running 1:20.3 wood equipment that scales to around 8' wide, it stands to reason that the "next generation" of steel equipment would also be that wide. You'll find most 1:29 cars come up quite a bit narrower (on the order of 7' if that wide) to be "appropriate" without some degree of modification. 

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

the man said that the 1/29 scale 2-4-2 should look like a toy next to the 4-6-2. But it doesn't. 

The Man (George is a member here, so you can contact him if you want more info) actually said: 

_my eyeballs tell me that this engine is far from 1/29 scale. I don't have any drawings of a prototype Rogers 2-4-2, but setting this engine next to a Bachmann 1/20.3 scale Shay looks reasonable._ 
_Putting the Rogers next to a 1/29 scale Pacific really shows the difference. This little engine should look like a toy next to a heavy Pacific, but it actually taller and wider. The Rogers would look right at home on a turn-of-the-century narrow gauge layout, but on a more modern 1/29 scale layout, it wouldn't fit well_. 



Here's the pic George posted: 












(Incidentally, and I'm not trying to put you off, but links are real tricky on this website. Here's *George's Tip page on the Rogers loco*. )

They certainly look good together, so if you like it, go for it. Again, it's purely a matter of personal taste. And there are a lot of strangely-scale models out there which aren't what the box says they are. 
Anyone think of any more anomalies ?


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## trainguy111 (Sep 7, 2010)

Your right. Its all up to me, but can anyone recommend any kitbashing kits for converting 1:29-1:32 scale locomotives to 1:20.3-1:24? I know they do this for HO locomotives for those who use ON30.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's all a matter of taste. Narrow gage 1:20 boxcars are roughly the same size, in terms of volume, as 1:29 boxcars. 1:32 boxcars are much smaller. You might not care--depending on the era and the kind of line you are running, a standard gage train could consist of a motley collection of oddly sized and types of cars, or it could be really uniform looking. Go to "shorpy.com" and enter the search term "proviso" for pictures of what a big freight yard looked like in the 1940s:











But the problem, if you care about these things, is in the details--the "boards" will be too big or too small, the brake wheels will be off: ladders will way off. I used to run a very nice MTH reefer (1:32) an LGB wooden boxcar (1:24 or so) and a USA outside braced boxcar (1:24) along with 1:29 stuff. But it started to bug me--the sizes were just off. It might not bug you, and good for you if it doesn't!


You best luck with be with cars that have less volume-flatcars rather than boxcars, or as Kevin said, with ore cars, equipment that tended to be adapted and modified from line to line.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you look long enough you can probably find a picture of anything in the prototype world that can be used in our world. Here are two pictures from a book by Frank A. King MINNESOTA LOGGING RAILROADS, that show what could be a 1:29 or 1:32 engine with a 1:20.3 caboose and combine. 

For those of you who like backwoods logging railroads this is a great book with lots of pictures of geared and rod locomotives and cars with loads of logs. 


Both of these are standard gauge lines. 


Chuck


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

can anyone recommend any kitbashing kits for converting 1:29-1:32 scale locomotives to 1:20.3-1:24? 
None available. Part of the problem is the dichotomy that exists between chosen prototypes by the manufacturers. The standard gauge guys are mostly picking large mainline locos whose wheel arrangements seldom--if ever--showed up on narrow gauge lines. What good is a "kit" for upscaling a 2-8-8-2? None ran on narrow gauge lines. Much the same for the diesels, though some of the hood details are arguably ambiguous enough in scale that they could work for a freelance diesel in 1:20.3. 

Later, 

K


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

To me my (1:18) LGB Stainz 0-4-0 looks great pulling a (1:22.5) USA woodside boxcar, followed by either a (1:24) MDC caboose or a (1:20) LGB bobber. 
Just my 2 cents


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

well I had a whole response typed out but then I read through the other posts an realized I was saying everything they said already. I think a common way to switch around steam loco's scale is to swap cabs around, but the problem is a lot of larger standard gauge steamers didn't have that "low slung" boiler look that is typical of a narrow gauge so a cab swap probably wouldn't help there, nor would it be likely to fit right. I guess another question for the OP is what scale narrow gauge is he looking to run it with? 1:22.5 or especially 1:24 is obviously going to be much easier to mix 1:29 equipment into than would 1:20.3.


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