# USA Trains Dockside loco



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

I searched but didn't find anything new.
Looking for info from anyone that has had this engine for a while now and can tell me how they are holding up?
Found one at a local store and I am thinking of picking it up to add to my collection, just seeing if their is anything I should be aware of?

Thanks,
Vinny


----------



## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

Posted By Vinny D on 12 Feb 2013 04:23 PM 
I searched but didn't find anything new.
Looking for info from anyone that has had this engine for a while now and can tell me how they are holding up?
Found one at a local store and I am thinking of picking it up to add to my collection, just seeing if their is anything I should be aware of?

Thanks,
Vinny

Sound unit is pritty poor sounding other wise a very strong puller and very reliable Die-cast engine.
There's a couple of guys on Youtube that's pulling 30 cars all day long with the thing.

J.


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By Jethro J. on 12 Feb 2013 04:32 PM 

Sound unit is pritty poor sounding other wise a very strong puller and very reliable Die-cast engine.
There's a couple of guys on Youtube that's pulling 30 cars all day long with the thing.

J.


Yeah I heard the sound system in person today, poor is being nice!I admit though I generally shut the sound off anyways when I was running trains on my old layout, after a while the sound gets annoying.
Looking to build a new layout this year and this may be my welcome back to garden railroading gift to myself!


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

The USAT Hudson comes with a Phoenix sound card. What sound card does the Dockside Loco use? Seems to me it would be a Phoenix sound card also, but I've never heard anyone complain about the sound quality of a Phoenix system.


----------



## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Excellent runner. Used my Santa Express in an annual Christmas display for the last 2 years running 6 days a week for approximately 9 hours a day for 2 weeks each year pulling 4 passenger cars (with ball bearing wheels) with very little visable wear on the drivers.


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By rlvette on 12 Feb 2013 04:52 PM 
The USAT Hudson comes with a Phoenix sound card. What sound card does the Dockside Loco use? Seems to me it would be a Phoenix sound card also, but I've never heard anyone complain about the sound quality of a Phoenix system. 

The Hudson sound system is nice, I don't know what they used in the dockside but I doubt it is a Phoenix....it's pretty horrid sounding, especially at slow speed.I have a few Phoenix systems installed in my Bachmann stuff (Shay, Climax, Consolidation) and a USA diesel, they all sound fine.
Again, not really worried about the sound, more interested in how it holds up running.
If I get it I will attempt to open it up and see what is inside!


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By Jim Agnew on 12 Feb 2013 05:02 PM 
Excellent runner. Used my Santa Express in an annual Christmas display for the last 2 years running 6 days a week for approximately 9 hours a day for 2 weeks each year pulling 4 passenger cars (with ball bearing wheels) with very little visable wear on the drivers. 

Thanks for the info Jim!My last layout I had the trains used to run pretty much all day long (when I was home), sometimes forgetting to take them in at night!
So they would run for 10-12 hours and more at any given time when I had them out their.
Always had good luck with the Bachmann Spectrum series loco's and the USAT diesels, all my LGB stuff ran great but the few Aristocraft engines I had were just horrible runners (RS3 & Little Critter). Had a few Accucraft engines and as long as the track was REALLY clean they ran well also. And to my surprise the fairly cheap HLW Big John and Dutchess engines ran strong.


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The dockside does NOT have a Phoenix card in it. It has a very basic sound system that sounds pretty bad. I tore it out and replaced it with a qsi card. 


My feelings about the loco are mixed. It's heavy and an excellent puller. The level of detail is pretty low. The native sound system is weak. It runs prototypicaly slow, which is good, but mine is noisy--the drive train is noisy. Power pickup is only ok--it tends to stall on switches. But it's a cool looking little loco and pulls really well. I like it, but don't love it.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/usat-motive-power/docksider


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Feb 2013 05:36 PM 
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/usat-motive-power/docksider 


Thanks for the link!


----------



## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

Check out the Piko Mogul or NYC 0-6-0 sound version. Great little steamers. 

DC and DCC sound (superior) version standard and can pull ton. Made in Germany not China. 

Alan


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By adelmo on 12 Feb 2013 07:21 PM 
Check out the Piko Mogul or NYC 0-6-0 sound version. Great little steamers. 

DC and DCC sound (superior) version standard and can pull ton. Made in Germany not China. 

Alan 

My dealer actually just got one of those in his store today, he didn't have a chance to un-box it while I was there so I will check it out on my next visit.


----------



## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I have had a Dockside now for over a year. It was a good running little engine. Just understand that there is no interior in the cab and no floor in it. As reported above the sound is really poor. I had a Sierra sound in it until recently when I replaced it with the new Aristo receiver with built in steam sound. It is definitely NOT as good as a Phoenix soundboard, but it does well.

Overall I have been pleased with the engine. For a little engine, because of its weight it is a heck of "puller".

Ed


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

What size curves are you Guys running the Dockside on. I set one up at a retirement home on about 7' dia. and the wheel flanges wore down to a knife like edge.


----------



## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

My tightest curve is 8' diameter. Most of the curves are 10' and 15' diameter. I haven't seen any problem so far, but I don't run the engine a whole lot.

Ed


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By Treeman on 12 Feb 2013 10:05 PM 
What size curves are you Guys running the Dockside on. I set one up at a retirement home on about 7' dia. and the wheel flanges wore down to a knife like edge. My layout will have all 8' dia. curves (LGB 1600 curve track).
You are the first one I have seen mention about the flanges...or at least no other forum searches I tried have found anything other then the sound system is poor.


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The tightest curves on my layout are 8 foot across, and it makes them with no trouble and no apprent binding. I have not noticed any unusual wear pattern, but it's not one I run all the time


----------



## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 12 Feb 2013 10:05 PM 
What size curves are you Guys running the Dockside on. I set one up at a retirement home on about 7' dia. and the wheel flanges wore down to a knife like edge. 
8 foot diameter curves, LGB 16000, my flanges show no wear.


----------



## Jethro J. (Apr 4, 2012)

I'm wondering if it's a Piko Docksider he's talking about, The USA docksider has SS wheels so I just cant see how they would wear out like that. Please confirm what unit you have and could you tell us what type track your running on?
And maybe a picture or two would be helpful.


J.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I was talking about the USA Dockside. The wheels are made of plated brass. It was running on nickel plated brass track.


----------



## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Mike, you said you were running on about 7' diameter curves. Was this LGB 15000?, if so that's approximately 6' diameter.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

No, It was flex track from Train-Li.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

How much wear was on the rail? I assume the plating was worn away on the inside of the rail head.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

The rail did show some wear. But the wheels were worn very badly. I need to get some pictures of them.


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Well I think I will be picking mine up this weekend (provided my cash flow is good!) 
Then I will test it out on my temporary setup in the basement and let it run for hours on end and see what happens. 

The difficult part will be only coming home with this engine! When I stopped in the store a week ago he had just gotten in some nice USAT diesels that I don't have!


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

So I picked up the engine yesterday and had a chance to run it on my temporary test track that is setup in my basement. 
My initial impressions are that it's a decent engine and should look nice running on my "hopefully" newly built layout outside this summer. 
However...their are a few things that I am a bit unhappy with.. 
First thing, besides the sound just being horrible, is why are the knuckle couplings set so low on this engine compared to every other piece of USAT gear that I own? 
Second, the engine...although a smooth runner is incredibly noisy! 
More so then any other engine that I own.....kind of disappointed at that. It probably won't be that noticeable once it gets outside, especially seeing how my yard borders a main road that is heavily traveled. 

So I am just wondering, is this normal for this engine to be so noisy? Do others have this issue with theirs? 
This engine although new to me has been sitting in the dealers store since 08 (I have the original box it was shipped in with the FedEx label still on it) don't know if the earlier engines had a noise issue, or if this particular engine itself is just for some reason noisy.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mine is quiet once you kill the sound board. Runs very smoothly. 

Greg


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Mine is very noisy too, and I'm not sure why.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gear noise or valve train noise? Remember the extra linkage for the smoke "puffer"


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

To me it seems like it is gear noise.


----------



## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Vinny, check the pickups contacting the drivers. The early Docksiders had metal contacts that were replaced with the standard carbon ones, that could be a source of the noise. I replaced the couplers with pilot mounted KD 1779's


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Posted By Jim Agnew on 25 Feb 2013 01:20 PM 
Vinny, check the pickups contacting the drivers. The early Docksiders had metal contacts that were replaced with the standard carbon ones, that could be a source of the noise. I replaced the couplers with pilot mounted KD 1779's 



I will check the contacts tonight to see what they are, I will also look into that coupler. Thanks!


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Well it sure is one with the metal contacts and I am convinced after lubing up all the moving parts that this is the source of my noise issue...or at least most of it! 
It does seem like there is a bit of engine noise itself, but again I don't think it will be much of a big deal when it finally gets running outdoors.


----------



## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Vinny, if you contact USAT, they may still provide the new brushes at no charge. It's a bit of a challenge to install all 6 at one time and the trick is to use a piece of duck tape to hold the brushes in place while reinstalling the lower cover.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim, I assume your docksider came with the "metal" ones... did you experience problems with them? 

Greg


----------



## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, noise and excessive wear on the metal brushes. I had 2 of the initial release and was told that they were reworking the ones in stock and would send me the replacement brushes. They also gave me the duck tape suggestion for holding the brushes in place.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Jim, will look at mine this weekend and order up carbon ones if they are metal.. I'm assuming just swap them in (and watch them go sproing) 

Greg


----------



## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

I built a LiPo battery car and connected it to the plug provided on my USA Trains Undecorated Dockside 0-6-0 Loco R20050. While it run on battery power, I found that electricity is being fed back through the wheels to the track. 

http://www.sepgrs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=239 

Does it seem strange that USA Trains provided this plug-in for battery power, but did not provide a switch to stop the track power pickup when operating on battery power? 

Bryan


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Are you sure it was there for battery power, or it was to power something else. In any case, this is very typical, many Aristo locos have this same issue. 

Greg


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

A little thread refresh:

I got a USAT docksider at ECLSTS at a very attractive price. At least it attracted me.....and the small size fits will with my modest railroad.

All above comments seem to hold, very heavy, great puller, very impressive slow speed performance, sound is as you feel it is, comes with magnets to trigger bell and whistle sounds, smoker not great, not bad, sort of middle anemic. Their NW 2 and S4 smokers work very well for me. There is a low gear sound, not too bad to my ear but it is there. I have had worse, such as the Aristo C 16, but it diminished with time and break in. 

SPecific observation deals with the little plug and wires and the socket under the coal load. As suggested above it appears to be a battery in plug, and this is confirmed by the LSOL video review on the USAT page for the locomotive. I wonder if it works like my Aristo FA1, which has a motor on/off switch, which is really a trackpower/battery switch? I will try to connect it to my battery trailing car when I have time and test this out.

http://www.usatrains.com/usatrainsdockside.html

There is also a broken link to the parts diagram which could be usefull to some

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...parts.html

Regards

Jerry


----------



## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I power my Dockside with a trailing car which holds a Revolution receiver with steam sound and the batteries. I drilled a small hole in the rear of the locomotive and brought the battery leads out through that. Works fine. Not sure about the switch. When I convert to battery I always disconnect the leads to the track, so for me it isn't an issue. Runs fine on battery though. The only problem I had was that the head light and "rear headlight" stayed on all the time no matter which direction I was running. When I called USAT they told me they couldn't (wouldn't) help me becaue I modified my engine by using their battery connector and their battery cable!!!! Since the cab has no floor in it and is basically "unfinished", I just cut the leads to the rear headlight and cab light. Been running fine ever since.

Ed


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

_RE Battery Plug/Operations:_

I simply plugged in the small plug supplied with the 0-6-0 (Molex??) into the socket under the coal load and soldered a MU plug on the end of the pigtails, plugged it into my trailing battery car, and it worked just fine. Yup motor switch just turns off motor so it is not track/battery switch. But I appreiciate having the plug and option to use battery so easily. I will, as above, find a way to run the wires under the coal bunker and permanently install the MU plug. 

Jerry


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Let me first say that I think the Dockside is an excellent loco. I set up a small dog bone loop at a retirement community. Used nickel plated brass track with about 7' dia. curves. They seem to turn it on and let it run for several hours a day. I was alarmed at the wear on the wheels. Pictured are the second pair. Working on pictures.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)




----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This might be a reason to not use Nickel plated drivers on Nickel plated rail. Lots of wear on the treads, so something is not right, how many months did this run? 

Greg


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

When I replaced the wheels I ground off the flange on the center driver but did not help with the wear on the front and rear drivers. The turns here seem to be too tight.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Two sets of wheels were worn out in one summer season. Six to eight weeks each. The rail is still in pretty good shape.


----------



## Vinny D (Jan 25, 2013)

Wow, thats alot of wear!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

WOW... is there any chance that there was a lot of dust or grit in the air that could help such abrasion? 

I have stainless rail, but I don't run my docksider continuously... hard to believe it's because the rail is hard. I do not get that kind of wear on anything, but a fair percentage of my rail is "watered" every day... maybe there is something unusual in the environment? 

Another "wild" theory is nickel on nickel... i.e. the situation where the same metal on metal will cause wear, but usually this is called "galling" and it looks different. 

Thanks for posting the picture Mike and providing information. 

Greg


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 28 Mar 2013 12:20 PM 
WOW... is there any chance that there was a lot of dust or grit in the air that could help such abrasion? 

I have stainless rail, but I don't run my docksider continuously... hard to believe it's because the rail is hard. I do not get that kind of wear on anything, but a fair percentage of my rail is "watered" every day... maybe there is something unusual in the environment? 

Another "wild" theory is nickel on nickel... i.e. the situation where the same metal on metal will cause wear, but usually this is called "galling" and it looks different. 

Thanks for posting the picture Mike and providing information. 

Greg Greg,

Now don't laugh at this suggestion, but.......I know you are always taking things apart and analyzing the situation. Would it be possible for you to remove one of the drivers on your Dockside and then get a nicely ground prick punch or better yet, an automatic prick punch. Punch the BACKSIDE of one of the drivers and then prick punch the top of the railhead on your stainless track. Measure the DIAMETER of the prick punched hole at the top of the hole. We're talking a "poor man's" Rockwell test. I think this might give an answer as to whether the wheel and rail "hardness" are very different. Just an idea.









This amount of wear looks very unusal to me.


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I used the nickel plated track because I thought their would be a lack of maintenance at the home. The rail may get dirty with the loco continuing to run. I have told them just to wipe it off with a damp cloth if they were having trouble.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gary, it's the surface hardness that makes one wear more than another... you can plate a soft metal, and your test will give different results. 

So that test would be more along the density of the material, not the surface hardness.. Hitting the brass wheel with a punch will clearly "dent more" than solid stainless. 

From Wikipedia: "The Rockwell scale is a hardness scale based on the indentation hardness of a material. " 

Greg


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I know exactly what Rockwell is. I've done it for over forty years. My suggestion was made to do the least amount of damage as possible to your Dockside wheel tread. I also recommended using an automatic punch to set the amount of drive depth as shallow as possible to get info from the plating, NOT the base metal. I thought you understood that, ie. "Poorman's Rockwell test". Sheeesh!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I got the concept Gary. I was explaining because I think you missed what is happening.

The wear is related to the surface hardness of the material. (wheel tread *SURFACE*, wheel flange *SURFACE*, rail head *SURFACE*)



The plating depth has ALREADY been shown to be very little, therefore the "poor mans rockwel"l of plated brass will be brass, and again, that is not germane to the wear on the wheels. It's the nickel plating on the rail, and the nickel (guessing) plating on the wheels. 

"*indentation *hardness" on a plated metal pretty much is useless in this situation... as long as the rockwell is high enough that the wheel does not deform, it's basically meaningless in determining what happened here.

Honestly, maybe if you read a bit more carefully at first rather than just be upset when I don't agree you will get the point the first time and not take personal offense... ( Sheesh too! )

Greg


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm actually trying to solve and understand a problem. I do possess enough experience and intelligence to make rational thought and decisions. 

If you find flaws in my logic, please bring them forward. I found flaws in yours and I explained but you took personal offense. None was intended. 

I'm just trying to figure it out. You show me the flaw in my statements, and I will THANK you for correcting me and be happy I learned something. 

I do own a docksider, I do have SS rails which are hard, I do use track power, and I do want to avoid what Mike has shown us here. 

Greg


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Greg, what is your minimum curve diameter.


----------



## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

It appears the USA Docksider has poor quality wheels like some of the Aristo models. Makes sense they both come from same factory. 

A friend designs and installs store layouts that run continuously started with SS track but it chewed wheels up in short order . He runs brass now in all stores. 

SS is to hard on equipment for commercial use IMO. 

Alan


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Min diameter is 10', but most of mainline is 14'... I just have not run it enough to really see any wear. 

SS is hard, in fact I think it's harder than the nickel plating on the Train-Li track that Mike used. 

Since I intend to go to all SS wheels on motive power, I may be fine (no signs of galling). 

Regards, Greg


----------



## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

About three years ago the Docksider had just been introduced in this area (Phoenix). I had a new customer in a local hotel who sets up a display of two loops of stainless steel 332 track on large styrofoam blocks. In each loop there are two corners which are pretty sharp, which divert the track (flextrack) behind the display. The track layout was designed by a local installer of good repute. He had supplied the Docksider, by the time I got into the picture, the wheels were like the pictures above, no flanges and no plating existed on the wheel tire surface with strange grooves running at angles. The loco was virtually useless. I estimate it had less than 20 days running time. Seeing this I recommended to my customer that he take the option of cast wheels with stainless steel tires. They have lasted three years now, with no signs of wear. Obviously, the docksider was not the problem, but the sharp corners were the problem. 

Barry


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Barry, Did you come up with the better wheels.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, where can you get replacement wheels with SS tires? I want them! 

(By the way, the USAT site does STILL advertise "stainless steel rims" on the docksider.... for shame... 

Greg


----------

