# Is NCE an "upgrade" from Digitrax?



## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

Hello, 

I have been dabbling with g-scale for 15 years or so but each time I get a layout up I end up moving (typical). The last bunch of years I have lived in the city so space is a premium and my current layout is smallish. I am going with a logging theme and will use a Shay or two as well as a few other small field type cars. 

Here is the issue, I have always wanted to connect DCC to the computer and do some level of automated running even if it is just back and forth. I have at this point a pretty sizable investment in Digitrax from my past layout but I don't really like the system. Everything seems to be unnecessarily complicated and the throttle isn't that great. I have the computer interface and use JMRI software which makes programming the decoders a breeze. Other issues are that the switch decoders don't seem to respond well; generally I am frustrated with it. 

I am think I am willing to go a different direction and have been looking at NCE. It seems like many folks here like the system or have good experience with it. Has anyone gone from Digitrax to NCE and if so, did you find it to be positive? I have looked at Zimo and the system looks pretty great but the cost seems a bit over the top. 

I am not going to be in the city forever so I would like to buy something that can support a larger layout later in life. I am considering the 10amp system although I will probably not go wireless at this point. I would also like to replace my block detection with the NCE system if possible. 

Thanks


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I have the NCE 10 amp system and am generally happy with it. Mine is the wireless model, but I don't find myself using the wireless throttle much. For the cost of the wireless throttle and receiver, you can always add wireless later if it's something you think you really need. I do like the throttle's thumb-wheel speed control, though like any electronic control, it's a compromise between lots of buttons for lots of functions and an over-crowded interface. 

Are the problems you have with the switches the decoders themselves? I only have two DCC-controlled switches on my layout, but haven't had any trouble switching them using the NCE system. But the "decoders" are actually Tam Vally micro singlet servo decoders. You might want to sort out the source of the problem before deciding about your next move.

I recently connected a RaspberryPi (a mini computer) to the command station via the serial port. I can run the trains and switches from my phone, a web browser, or from the computer, which I like. Like you, I appreciate the ability to program decoders from the JMRI interface--I'm currently using a Sprog for that. If you do decide to buy a new system and eventually move back outside, perhaps your Digitrax unit could live on the workbench?

I've heard/read nothing but good things about the Zimo system. I have a couple of their decoders, and I think they're really nice. They're expensive for decoders, but are loaded with features, like pulsed smoke control and servo control right from the gate. And I also think that the complete Zimo DCC system is pretty pricey. Since my layout is on a (mostly) shoestring budget, I went with the NCE. If you have Cadillac money and want Cadillac features, the Zimo system is something to seriously consider.


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## MikeMcL (Apr 25, 2013)

I have Digitrax. The BEST thing I ever did was to get the PR-3 and hook an old computer running JMRI to the loconet. Now I use my smart phone (Android) as a wireless throttle and it is SO MUCH EASIER than a Digitrax throttle! Made running the trains a joy again. All the function buttons are right there and labeled in English. Picking a loco from the roster is a piece of cake by name, description, or photo. Friends and neighbor can download the Android or iPhone app and be a guest engineer. The app is very intuitive.

No more remembering loco addresses, or functions. It was like night and day!

If you already are invested in Digitrax, try this solution first.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The user interface on the Pro NCE throttles is light years better than the Digitrax.

But I use the Digitrax DS-64 switch controllers, all powered from the track and they work great, I have about 30 switches controlled by them and all the DS-64s are outside, in plastic boxes.

I have used NCE for years and think it's the best "high end" system for the money.

Now I have a Zimo system, and it is very expensive, but another quantum jump in quality and capability, everything is better, except that it can be more complex to learn.

So, if you don't like the Digitrax throttles, NCE is a great choice.

Greg

p.s. Mike, he says he already has the computer interface and JMRI, it's at the end of his post.


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## MikeMcL (Apr 25, 2013)

Greg Elmassian said:


> p.s. Mike, he says he already has the computer interface and JMRI, it's at the end of his post.


I saw that, but he is frustrated with the complicated throttles. The "light-bulb moment" is taking the next step and using the Engine Driver app (android) or Withrottle (iCrap) which are free to try.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You know Mike, the science of how to make stuff easy to use is pretty tricky.

Given a fixed number of functions, one extreme is a button for every function, the other is a menu structure with a way to navigate and a confirm button to click.

What we have found in the software and user interface development world is a point between the extremes.

To simplifiy, a dedicated button for each thing you do all the time, or need to do without looking.

Menus for the rest.

I do standard gauge modeling, so I need the consisting buttons there where I can see them, and the NCE has a nice group of 4 buttons with a circle around them

I use sound cards that have multiple sounds, so I need the function keys out there, and also I run multiple locos, so I do need the keypad and a way to use it for locos, functions and switch machines.

It's really not complicated if you use these features, much less complicated than layers and layers of menus.

Now, if you never use remote control switches, and don't switch locos and do consisting, etc. etc, then you can use a throttle that has less stuff on it. You might not realize that NCE has a number of different throttles with different levels of complexity.

Greg


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## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. I am going to try to see if I simply fried my throttle by trying to use JMRI although I may still unload the digitrax setup. I have been so frustrated by it that I left it for 2 weeks. 

If I do get NCE, do you have a suggestion on which setup to get? I see the PowerCab. is that simply the command center built into the Cab? Not sure I would like that, is the "PH 10 R" the set to get? I assume the R means radio


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Most people get the PH10R..

There are the following LOGICAL components in a DCC system:
1. throttle/cab
2. command station (the brains)
3. booster (takes the low level signal from the brains and boosts it to track voltage and current)

In the PH10R these components are separate.

In the powercab they are all in the same housing as the throttle (although you have a wall wart external)... BUT there are some limitations in the system, and the output is only 12 volts and 2 amps, unsuitable for G scale.

The 5 amp system PH5R has items 2 and 3 in a single box...

R does indeed mean radio, you can add the radio to a non-radio system, but you need the radio throttles so start with a radio system.

Greg


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## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

Thanks Greg! Really helps


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Always happy to help, there's also a lot on NCE on my web site... on the DCC menu, there is a selection "DCC Equipment by Manufacturer" and select the first NCE, and then any sub menus you want.

Regards, Greg


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not sure how much I can add, the ONLY system I've ever owned is the NCE. I bought a Power Cab, and started running my Bachmann K27 right away, learning curve was very shallow, especially since I've never used DCC before. Discovered quickly the 2 AMP didn't cut it for G, so I bought an SB3A which uses 5 amps. Good for three Bachmann locos, 2 K27's and a C-19. I have run them as triple-headers, and the only problem I've found is the top speed of the C-19 is way less than the K's. Have to run slowly!

After the SB3A, I added a USB adaptor connected to an old ThinkPad, and then used JMRI with my tablet and Android phone. Everything works.

That's it. It just works. No hours of learning, no experimentation, just followed the instructions, and it just works. 

I use QSI decoders, and have the QSI programmer, but I've had little difficulty programming on the main with the NCE. You just have to turn the voice feedback off to get the momentum features to work.

But. It works.

What more can I say?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To clarify: you turn off the voice feedback on the original QSI Revolution/Magnum in order to use the NCE "button" on the handheld. Momentum works fine.

The issue is that if you have the voice confirmation on in the decoder, the NCE sends the settings for CV3 and CV4 back to back, and the QSI literature states that you have to wait for the voice confirmation to finish before sending another CV.

By the way, the new QSI Titan has no such limitation.

Regards, Greg


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, correct, Greg. Sorry if I was unclear. It did take me a little time to figure that one else, although, to be honest, with Fn3, using K-27's and mostly AMS cars, momentum simulation is kind of moot. Physics kind of takes care of itself with trains weighing 50 pounds or more...

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I just wanted to make it clear there was really nothing wrong with the NCE system, and actually the QSI works as in their manual, just inconvenient since I like the announce on myself.

Regards, Greg


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## fsts2k (Jan 13, 2009)

New NCE system came today and I had it running in about 10 min.... WAY easier. Got an automation panel and serial interface, lots of fun projects to work on now and it seems to be less frustration. 

The NCE manual isn't the easiest but it is far better than the Digitrax manual. 

Thanks!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

There's a great NCE group on Yahoo!. It also includes folks who work for NCE.

Robert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, and I have 7 pages on my web site devoted to NCE which also includes links to a couple of the most prolific contributors' web sites.

Tons of resources.

Greg


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