# Size/Scale for a Newbie



## TrainHigh (Mar 1, 2009)

Hi. I've been researching this for a few weeks but still haven't figured it out. I understand that the different scales are to a particular railroad, but my problem is I don't know anything about the different railroads. All I know is I want the biggest train I can afford. Which is roughly under $1000. None of the manufacturers put dimensions on their products, only scale, which depends on what it's trying to model. I tend to want a steam engine so I think I've figured out that the Bachmann Spectrum 1:20.3 4-4-0 or 2-6-0 is what I want. Is this about the largest I can get without scratchbuilding? I'm more concerned with the height and length than width. I don't care about scale for my purposes at this point (that may come later) just the largest I can get for display. Thanks for any advice.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

In terms of sheer size the 1:29 Big Boy from USAT is really big. But it's very expensive

A Bachmann K-27 is probably your best bet. Under $1000 and about as big as commercial 1:20 gets. The aristocraft Mallett is a great looking very big engine as well, costs less. It's longer I beliove and has the standard gage look


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

If you want a 'BIG' look, 1:20.3 could be the choice. 
A large 1:29 mainline engine may be longer but it still wont be as 'BIG' looking overall. 
The Bachmann K-27 or the soon release of the Bachmann 2-6-6-2 Articulated will be much bigger looking than the Bachmann mogul or american. 
the Bachmann consolidation is also fairly BIG and fat looking. 

With 1:20.3 there is also an aspect of detail that is missed with mainline scales which is why it is called 'Fine Scale'. 

Andrew


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## K27fireman (Jul 19, 2008)

This is a close up of an Accucraft K-27, its big and very simalier to the Bachmann. 
If you won’t BIG go 1:20.3 

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/OldDog2/005.jpg


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

one may determine over a course of time that bigger (even for display) is not always better.....1:20.3 is large for sure, and a fine running Fn3 loco is far better than a looker that may need work to get it to operate at it's finest. 

that being said...for display purposes (and running thereon) I'd prob go for a Bachmann 3 Truck Shay...plenty to see, and a pretty good proven (for all intents) runner....and the fact that many can be found for under $600!









cale


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

If I understand you correctly, you are looking for the "WOW! Factor". All of the above are good choices but what you _really _need to ask yourself first is "What do I want to model?" You want steam and that's great! Do you like standard gauge or narrow gauge? That will more than anything determine which way you are going to go! The standard gauge 2-8-2's are larger than the Bachmann narrow gauge K-27 but they both give off a great "WOW" Factor! Something to consider is the rest of the train! Do you want passenger equipment and/or freight cars? What era do you want to model? Most narrow gauge is from the 1880's to the 1940's. Standard gauge models can go all the way to the late 50's! 
The other thing to look at is product reliability. A model can be the most beautiful one ever conceived but if it doesn't give good performance or is prone to unreliability then it is just a "shelf queen" and will probably sour you on the whole large scale bit! Keep asking questions and opinions like you are doing but take it a couple of steps further and really get down to the "nitty gritty!" As Barry Olson is fond of saying, "There are no dumb questions." Good luck!


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

forgot to add, if you are interested in Standard Gauge, the Aristocraft Mallet would make a nice display piece: 










cale


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Pardon me for suggesting this, but I think you may be approaching the question from the wrong direction. I can understand wanting something impressive for display, but bigger is NOT always better... When it comes time to dust off that shelf queen you'll find that big locos also like big layouts -- generous curves, long runs, long consists... yep, real impressive. Until you factor in the costs of maintaining all that shiyut. Every hour spent leveling and cross leveling track, polishing rail, pulling weeds -- and a zillion other maintenance chores -- is an hour you won't have for something else. Great, if you enjoy that sort of stuff, but a lot of people don't. 

Since you are just starting NOW is the time to ask yourself the four questions: 1. When? IE What time period interests you? Early steam? late steam? transition? 1st generation diesel? modern? 2. Where #1? What region or even foreign country do you like enough to want to model? 3. Where #2? How much space can you reasonably spare for a railroad? =or= Will you be able to get it within a reasonable timeframe? 4. How much are you willing to invest? Not just money, but time.... There's no sense in trying to build a huge layout just to run out of money halfway - or worse yet, to build it then let it rot due to not enough time or interest to maintain it. 

Instead, when you answer the questions above the choice of what loco to buy THAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU will start to answer itself, or at least be narrowed down to 3 or 4 good choices. 

Yust my 2c, you may want change


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## TrainHigh (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks for all the suggestions. I realize I’m coming at this from the wrong direction so I’ll post a picture of my whole reason for wanting to get a train. I just wanted something to put up here, and thought a train would fit well.










Then I got the idea of cutting holes in the end and running it through. I have 17" of height to work with, hence my want for a large train to fill in that space.










In my impatience I picked this stuff up yesterday and today.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Some thoughts, now that I see the situation. 1. Mr Murphy has decreed that a train will always derail at the least accessible spot. Will you be able to reach the hidden sections or have to fish with a broom? 2. what is the maximum diameter curves you can fit in the space you have? (If less than say 8 or 10 feet it will put paid to many bigger locos on the market). 

My suggestion(s). Go with stainless track so you won't have to clean it as often, and rail clamps at least on the outside rail for good connection and to make sure it stays together. ... Since you stated a preference for early steam, consider an LGB Mogul (based on a Brooks C&S loco of 1880's vintage) for durability, and the fact that it will stay on even with sharper curves. Bachmann's Jackson & Sharp passenger cars (with metal wheels) are MUCH cheaper than LGB and almost as nice, at least from a few feet away. Then again the Aristocraft old time passenger cars are fairly nice too, almost as reasonably priced, and shorter..... Consider using, building, or painting "flats" (2 dimensional buildings or rock cliffs) behind the track to use up the extra height, and tunnel portals to hide the holes in the wall. Hope this helps


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## TrainHigh (Mar 1, 2009)

Sorry for the formatting, I don't know why it came out like that. That helps greatly. I'm definitely looking for that WOW factor. Both ends of that section go into the attic so it will stay dry and there is plenty of room up there. If there's a derailment I just have to go into the garage and climb up the ladder, not too big of a deal but it will be at least 45 seconds or a minute before I can get to it. Overall it looks pretty good for curves but there is one section I wonder about where it comes out and the AC ducting is there so I need to go back and measure it. The tunnels are an issue I've been thinking on but haven't figured out yet, I want to keep it sealed off so the heat/cool doesn't come in and out. Some options are a rubber flap that the train pushes through like a dog door, a proximity sensor that opens a door, or I can manually remove the doors when I want to run it. I still haven't decided on a train tunnel look or a square trim look that blends in with the house. 

I was really leaning towards the Spectrum 2-6-0 Mogul, and the Jackson and Sharp Passenger cars. Tworld has a good deal on them but I haven't been able to see one in person. I'll check out the LGBs now. I hadn't paid much attention to them because the ones I've seen looked kind of toyish to me but I hear lots of good things about them. I was planning on eventually painting a sky and putting some building facades of a western town up there. I've been reading through the forums for ideas.


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## Big John (Jan 4, 2008)

All my equipment is narrow gauge steam. I have five engines and they are all Bachman spectrum quality. For the money you can't go wrong with Bachmann if you want old time steam equipment. Unless you can handle 8' minimum radius curves you should stay away from the bigger engines like the K27 and the newly released Mallet. You can get a lot of Bachmann equipment for $1000. Since you are keeping the train in your house you could also use inexpensive Bachmann track. This track is not usable outside as it rusts very quickly so you can find it on E-bay at low prices from people who purchase sets and sell the track. 

By the way, i have the 2-6-0 ETWNC Bachmann spectrum locomotive and it is beautiful. The engine is a light blue color and everyone who visits my layout seems to gravitate to it. 

Good luck. 

Big John


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 03/01/2009 4:39 PM
Pardon me for suggesting this, but I think you may be approaching the question from the wrong direction. I can understand wanting something impressive for display, but bigger is NOT always better... When it comes time to dust off that shelf queen you'll find that big locos also like big layouts -- generous curves, long runs, long consists... yep, real impressive. Until you factor in the costs of maintaining all that shiyut. Every hour spent leveling and cross leveling track, polishing rail, pulling weeds -- and a zillion other maintenance chores -- is an hour you won't have for something else. Great, if you enjoy that sort of stuff, but a lot of people don't. 

Since you are just starting NOW is the time to ask yourself the four questions: 1. When? IE What time period interests you? Early steam? late steam? transition? 1st generation diesel? modern? 2. Where #1? What region or even foreign country do you like enough to want to model? 3. Where #2? How much space can you reasonably spare for a railroad? =or= Will you be able to get it within a reasonable timeframe? 4. How much are you willing to invest? Not just money, but time.... There's no sense in trying to build a huge layout just to run out of money halfway - or worse yet, to build it then let it rot due to not enough time or interest to maintain it. 

Instead, when you answer the questions above the choice of what loco to buy THAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU will start to answer itself, or at least be narrowed down to 3 or 4 good choices. 

Yust my 2c, you may want change








Mik:

Rarely have I read such a cogent post.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By TrainHigh on 03/01/2009 8:34 PM
I just wanted something to put up here, and thought a train would fit well.

Then I got the idea of cutting holes in the end and running it through. I have 17" of height to work with, hence my want for a large train to fill in that space.

I just want it to sit up there and run through in a loop when I turn it on. (kind of like that trolley on Mr. Rodgers) I had seen big Christmas trains and that’s where my research started.


But now the more I learn the more interested I am in it. 

//// Uh-huh. This is how the hobby so often gets a new member, "The more I learn...." (In no way casting aspersions!). I've been involved in several hobbies: competion shooting, hobby blacksmithing (except I made a fair amount of money doing it), Ham radio--and the one that leaves room for the most expansion, mentally and in real life, is model RRing. I started with a 1948 Lionel. And I never quite forgot it.

There are _so _many different aspects connected to this hobby, I doubt if one can ever master all aspects of it. But you can have one heckuva lot of fun trying!

By all means, if you want to start with a 'big 'un', do it. If you reflect a bit and decide you'd rather try Mr. Roger's trolley, by all means, do that. Just recognize up front that, the more you learn, the more your aspirations might or will change. In other words, the larger your horizons will grow.

But, _go for it!_



Les


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

A rubber flap could get hooked up with the consist and will be a problem if you want to reverse halfway through. 
Could be the cause of derailments. 
After many run throughs it could scratch the front and top of the train. Goodby mogul whistle. 
A better but not perfect solution would be a curtain made with many overlapping thin streamers like on refridgerated shop doors. 
The strips would have to be heavy enough to resist the rising heat blowing them partialy open. 
You could make actuated barn doors triggered by gravity, reed switches or the like but it would not be a fail proof solution and could be more of a problem than it's worth. 
I wonder if you could stop heat rising through the portals by a very small fan at the end of short tunnels behind the portals to create a small amount of pressure to the room and restrict the passive flow of warm air - Hmmm ... Would have to fiddle with this to get balanced but it would be simple and not get caught up or damage the important bit. 

A sheet of glass will fish tank the recess, keep the dust off and heat from escaping but who likes trains behind glass?

Andrew


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Cool idea! 

Did you mention the radius of the curves you will have? Generally the bigger the loco, the bigger the curves it needs. 8 feet is the minimum for a lot of big engines. Mik's argument for an LGB engine is a good one--they are very durable and engineeered for tight curves. I'd also go for stainless track since it will be hard to clean up there.


I think the Bachmann Annie is the best deal in large scale. It's not expensive, it has great detail, it can be bought in a set with cars, and it has big, showy proportions. Not as big as a K27, and not as detailed, but it would work as "proof of concept" and then you could decide if you want to get something bigger. The newest versions are robust and well designed, they take tight curves (down to 4 feet) well, and if you decide you really love it there are lots of upgrade paths.


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## TrainHigh (Mar 1, 2009)

Thanks for the ideas. I've had several hobbies in my life and this one so far seems a little more addicting than the others. I already have so many plans, but one thing at a time. I didn't think about having to reverse halfway through the rubber flap or damaging the engine. I suppose the easiest thing is to just put a sliding cover up there and remove it to run. But the glass or plexiglass is an interesting idea, it would turn it more into a display. I ended up buying some Bachmann track and power unit on ebay, and I'm still shopping and deciding on a locomotive. I think I can get by with some decently sized curves, but I'll know more once I get the track and lay it out. I think it came out of a white and yukon set. 

I did alot of research on the Annie today. I really like that setup and think it's the best looking style for me, but I want a Spectrum since they are larger. Still looking at the 2-6-0 and 4-4-0. I'm still trying to research the cars too. I have seen some Spectrum Jackson Sharp cars in ads but I can't find them in my 2009 Bachmann catalog. I want the setup with 4 passenger cars, baggage, etc with track lighting. The green ones but I'm not sure which railroad yet.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By TrainHigh on 03/03/2009 11:54 PM
Thanks for the ideas. I've had several hobbies in my life and this one so far seems a little more addicting than the others. I already have so many plans, but one thing at a time. I didn't think about having to reverse halfway through the rubber flap or damaging the engine. I suppose the easiest thing is to just put a sliding cover up there and remove it to run. But the glass or plexiglass is an interesting idea, it would turn it more into a display. I ended up buying some Bachmann track and power unit on ebay, and I'm still shopping and deciding on a locomotive. I think I can get by with some decently sized curves, but I'll know more once I get the track and lay it out. I think it came out of a white and yukon set. 

I did alot of research on the Annie today. I really like that setup and think it's the best looking style for me, but I want a Spectrum since they are larger. Still looking at the 2-6-0 and 4-4-0. I'm still trying to research the cars too. I have seen some Spectrum Jackson Sharp cars in ads but I can't find them in my 2009 Bachmann catalog. I want the setup with 4 passenger cars, baggage, etc with track lighting. The green ones but I'm not sure which railroad yet.


Uh, not sure if we are on the same page here, but perhaps it's something that you should know afore ye go spending lot of $$$$...

The 'Annie' is a fine-looking and good-running model, and will easily handle the *matching[/i]* J&S cars - mine does it all day at exhibitions, with six or seven in tow. It is scaled at around 1/22.5, but looks good - a couple of hundred thousand of us can't all be wrong! 


However, Bachmann's 'Spectrum' models are to a scale of 1/20.3. Now, I don't know about any Bachmann Jackson & Sharp 'Spectrum' standard passenger cars, but I DO know about the AccuCraft models. In the plastic version, they are around 30 inches long - each- and weigh in at around six pounds - each - and you are hoping to have a train of five of them hauled by a Bachmann 2-6-0 or 4-4-0 loco somewhere up in mid-air, as far as I can make out. With the greatest of respect, Sir, that ain't going to happen.

The only 'Spectrum' loco that has a chance of hauling THIS consist is the K-27, and for that you are going to need some pretty large sweeping curves, too. THAT loco alone weighs around 18 pounds.

IMO, you need to do some thinking here, Sir.

Best

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## TrainHigh (Mar 1, 2009)

Ok that is something I didn't know! I didn't think these engines would have a problem pulling that so I'm glad you told me. I have seen advertised at least three places Bachmann Spectrum cars, the model numbers are 89091, 89092, 89093, 89094. I would post the links to the online stores but don't know if that's allowed here. I thought they came in 4s Coach, Combine, Full Baggage, and Observation and they modeled the shorter 34' or 36' cars. If I end up getting a larger loco that would be okay, I don't care how the curves look since it will be in the attic and I won't see them but when I get some track laid down I'll let you guys know how wide they are. 

I'm trying to do all the thinking I can because this is a big chunk of change for me, but I'm having to hit a million websites here and there for specific questions I have (the more I learn) and I'm relying on people here to help. Thank you. I'm going to a brick and mortar store this weekend and if I can't figure out a larger loco solution by then I may end up getting an Annie to start out with.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By TrainHigh on 03/04/2009 6:52 AM Ok that is something I didn't know! I didn't think these engines would have a problem pulling that so I'm glad you told me. I have seen advertised at least three places Bachmann Spectrum cars, the model numbers are 89091, 89092, 89093, 89094. I would post the links to the online stores but don't know if that's allowed here. I thought they came in 4s Coach, Combine, Full Baggage, and Observation and they modeled the shorter 34' or 36' cars. If I end up getting a larger loco that would be okay, I don't care how the curves look since it will be in the attic and I won't see them but when I get some track laid down I'll let you guys know how wide they are. 

I'm trying to do all the thinking I can because this is a big chunk of change for me, but I'm having to hit a million websites here and there for specific questions I have (the more I learn) and I'm relying on people here to help. Thank you. I'm going to a brick and mortar store this weekend and if I can't figure out a larger loco solution by then I may end up getting an Annie to start out with.


Ahah!!!!!! I have just had a look at the passenger cars you note, and have found that they are NOT 'Spectrum' - the name given to Bachmann's 1/20.3 Large Scale models. For some reason, this title has been put on the ordinary standard Bachmann large-scale cars that match the 'Annie' in scale. I have twelve of them to haul behind my two 'Annies' - six each for White Pass and D&RGS. They'll still look good behind the 'Spectrum' Mogul and American though, as these are pretty small locos in real life.


*It really would help here if somebody could post comparative shots of an AMS Fn3 and the Bachmann J&S car to help our friend out.

*tac http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't think these engines would have a problem pulling that 


Trainhigh, [no real name? We're friendly and well behaved here.] 

Just to clear up your confusion... 

1. The bachmann 4-6-0 (also known as the 'Annie' when it is an Anniversary Series model - but there are versions which aren't the fancy, expensive Annie,) is to a scale of 1:22.5 and is not a 'Spectrum' series model. However, it is very nice and will suit your plans. 

2. The bachmann jackson & Sharp coaches are also 1:22.5 and are not scale length, so they are also suitable for your small layout. The 4-6-0 will have no problem pulling 4 or 5 of them all day long. For some obscure reason, bachmann's dealers sometimes call them 'spectrum' series, but Bachmann doesn't; they are officially part of the 'Big Hauler' line. http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=789 

_Feel free to post links to stores - just avoid advertisements! Put the link between 'url' '/url' keywords that are enclosed in [ square brackets instead of quotes, as I did for the bachmann lionk above._ 

3. My local train hobby store will sell you a complete train set with a non-Annie version of the engine for $125, including a couple of freight cars. I think they charge ~$150 for the ones with the coaches. 

4. The accucraft J&S coaches mentioned by TAC are scale length and are 1:20.3 scale (Fn3) so they are huge and will dwarf the Annie loco. (They have wipers for lights and those make them very sluggish. Most folk remove them and find some other solution.) 


It really would help here if somebody could post comparative shots of an AMS Fn3 and the Bachmann J&S car to help our friend out.

Here's a photo of a 1:20 coach (not accucraft, but the same size) next to a bachmann 1:22 combine: 










5. The bachmann 2-6-0 and 4-4-0 are 1:20.3 scale models of small engines, so they look fine in front of the 1:22.5 scale coaches. The 4-4-0 will traverse a tight corner better than the 2-6-0, aas it doesn't have a center axle to fall off the curves. 

6. the bachmann track, while cheap, is only tin-plate folded rails on plastic, and it won't last. Try it, but be prepared to replace it in a year or so. It will be fine while you figure out how your layout looks and whether you like it.


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## TrainHigh (Mar 1, 2009)

Guys, thank you for that bit of information. This is exactly what I was looking for and helped clear up my confusion tremendously. So much that I went back to the drawing board. I understand now that because the Annie models a larger real loco it's almost the same size as the 'larger' Spectrum models, is that correct? Thanks for clearing up the issue about those passenger cars being called Spectrums, I thought that was too good of a deal. After seeing the picture of the two sizes next to each other I did decide I want the larger plastic cars even at that elevated price. Now I didn't know of a good loco to pull them, so I started looking at the mallet. That thing is awesome. But when I calculated the length of it and 4 cars it came to 13' something, which is over the 11' I have to work with. (Any other Locos as tall and as big as the Mallet but shorter in length that would match those AMS cars?) So now it's back to the drawing board. From all of your advice I probably will get the Annie and smaller cars to start with and get everything working. Later on I want to get something bigger that would be a more impressive display up there. Maybe a Mallet with only 2 or 3 passenger cars. 

If you don't mind, please call me TH. I apologize for not putting my name up here but I've had problems with identity theft and hacking into my personal stuff in the past, and I prefer to keep as much personal information off the internet now as possible. It's difficult and things still happen but it lessens the chance.


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

TH, if you are looking for an impressive Loco, that can run in tight spaces...look into the LGB Mallet. I think it scales out to 1:22.5ish










Most everything LGB made is 2' compatible! 

cale


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

for some indoor train fun: 

http://www.stanstrains.com/


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By c nelson on 03/05/2009 8:24 AM
TH, if you are looking for an impressive Loco, that can run in tight spaces...look into the LGB Mallet. I think it scales out to 1:22.5ish










Most everything LGB made is 2' compatible! 

cale


1/27th-ish.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

Thanks TAC! 

cale


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

the Annie models a larger real loco it's almost the same size as the 'larger' Spectrum models, is that correct?


TH, 
In a nutshell - Yes. Be cautious with the 'Annie' designation, as not all Bachmann 4-6-0s are Anniversary models. We call them 'ten-wheelers' when referring to all the different models. See: http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html. 

The Accucraft jackson & Sharp cars are awesome (I just got my first one,) but they haven't shipped the combine yet. Note that steam engines are a lot more powerful than you might think [unless you are old enough to have seen the real thing!] The Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 might well have been seen pulling two or three coaches on the daily passenger train. 

Whaddya know, here's the pictures to prove it: http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/11/postid/86635/view/topic/Default.aspx 

If you like big power, then maybe you should re-think which scale you are going to start with. The ten-wheeler and J&S coaches are models of small narrow-gauge equipment, and big engines pulling lots of coaches were the exception. (That Bachmann Mallet's prototype was never built, and very few engines that size ever operated on the ng railroads.) 

Aristocraft and USATrains make small locos and big ones, and there is no limit to how big you can go if you choose to model standard gauge on this track.


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## TrainHigh (Mar 1, 2009)

Well here it is. I picked up a White Pass & Yukon set. It's sitting on top of a 3/4" thick board under the track. 










































I like the look of it. Eventually I'll want to get something bigger up there with those AMS cars though. But this will be good to get everything laid out and running. I thought the cars were lighted before I bought it but I guess not. (too much paying attention to the nicer cars I guess)


Unfortunately, there is an HVAC blower about a foot or so away from the end of that wall. I took some track up in the attic and everywhere else there is plenty of room for huge curves, but right there the most I can get away with is a 2' radius (if I did my math right, whatever comes with the kit will work, but no wider). Immediately after going into the "tunnel" it will need a left or right turn. So I guess my big loco and car options are limited. But I'm glad I bought this, even if it's not running I like it sitting there. I may put a few small floodlights on the ground shining up on it, just enough to show it when the lights are out, and I can put some track powered LED car lights in there and leave them on.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

TH - I'm a bit puzzled about the lack of lighting in your new cars. I have twelve of these cars - one set of six with the built-in battery box [the older style] and six more recent with the wheel-draggers/wipers.

Are ALL the newer cars light-less?

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## catfordken (Feb 23, 2009)

hi,the bachmann sets have no lights in,this was done to cut costs,on most that have no lighting the end handrails are not black but gold,its also how some sellers on ebay,show lower prices,ken


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## catfordken (Feb 23, 2009)

i was talking about the white pass set,as they use the annie in this set,it was bachmanns way of keeping costs down,thats according to bachmann when i emailed them,ken


boxed seperatly 
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3627/3334725187_5e433399a3_o.jpg


from set
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/3335561380_251d416777_o.jpg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting. Just to add some more information, the Bachmann J&S cars are scaled 1:22.5 and thus are compatable with LGB cars. The Delton/Hartland/Aristo-Delton Classic line is scaled 1:24 and is slightly smaller still. The difference between 1:24 and 1:22.5 is much less noticeable than between 1:22.5 and Fn3(1:20.3) due to the fact that the 1;22.5 and 1:24 cars have been selectively "compressed" (if you will note in the "comparison shot," the number of windows is different!) Also, the smaller scaled cars have truck mounted couplers which allow much tighter radius curves. The Fn3 cars have prototypical body mounted couplers. Mating a Big Hauler or LGB locomotive to an Accucraft, AMS or Hartford car (1:20.3) will require some modification to the coupler as these models are set for truck mounted coupling which is lower. Bachmann makes an adapter coupler which can be used.

One small area of disagreement with tac, the _Accucraft_ cars are about 10 lbs each as these are all brass. The AMS cars are from Accucraft's plastic division and while they have a brass plate in the bottom adding some significant weight, they are considerably lighter than 10 lbs! The wipers on the backside of the wheels _are_ a considerable drag and will bring a small engine to a wheel spinning halt after only a couple of cars! The only real solution is ball bearing wheel sets. I used LGB's ones with power pick-ups and the cars roll as easily, if not more so, than 1:22.5 scaled cars! The main difference is in the _length and width_ of these cars! They _don't_ go around tight curves! In fact, don't even bother with them if you have anything tighter than 4' radius (8' dia.) curves! Also, because of the length, they tend to go wide to the inside of a curve so if you have a tunnel or a bridge that you approach or exit from a curve, you may find the opening not wide enough (been there, done that, had to redo the portals!) When I made the decision to upscale to Fn3 I had to go over my entire layout and decide what needed to be "adjusted" in order to accomodate the larger scaled cars. Those passenger cars were the largest consideration! One can get away with a lot of stuff in 1:24 or 1:22.5 that you simply can't get away with in 1:20.3! Three things to remember: _Bigger, Wider, Smoother!!_


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## catfordken (Feb 23, 2009)

also some of the newer cars are track powered rather than pp9 powered ken


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## catfordken (Feb 23, 2009)

hi have been doing a bi of research and aristocraft do the same,their sierra coaches,bought boxed will have all the working bits,lights,fire and seating,not so if you buy the sets,no lights fire or seats,and on some i see curtains are closed to stop you seeing inside, ken


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