# Updating WV computer. Please don't say "Buy and Apple."



## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Microsoft legal question. My old PC is over 10 years old now and although it works well and is really reliable it's time is up speed and capacity wise. Downloading better quality videos and photos for WVRR.CA is getting difficult. I bought and installed Windows XP about 5 years back and it's comfortable and does everything I ever want if I use a good photo management program. 


Now I'm told that I have to pay $179.00 on top of a pretty good hardware price so the supplier can install Windows XP. Excuse me? I have MY copy of Windows XP and as far as I can tell just bu looking the data on the disk didn't shoot off to the far side of Saturn when it was installed into MY computer a few years back. The new computer will still be MY replacement computer so why not just install MY software? 


Is this sales guy right or is he/she just making a sale and getting a cut of the cash? 


No rumors or closet deals please. Can anyone who suggests I can use MY software please send me a link to a good Microsoft source so I can stand on that official information.


Thanks in advance folks.


Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm not understanding... 

You do not state this, but are you buying a new computer? 

So, re-reading your post several times, I think that's what you are saying. So, can you use your already registered Windows XP disk on a new, different computer? 

Do you have the software license key? 

The answer is maybe... depending on the version of XP and how it was installed (at factory and still more variables), you might be able to do this. 

If that license key is already registered at Microsoft, probably not... but it depends.... 

Why not try it? 

I'm sure the guy you are talking to does not know EVERYTHING about Microsoft liscensing. 

You do own a license, but some XP licenses are locked to the hardware, like Dells... basically anything with the OEM holographic sticker on the computer with the key on it is pretty much locked to the hardware, because it was bought at an OEM discount by the manufacturer and is limited to that particular piece of hardware. 

My guess is that you bought it pre-installed by the manufacturer and you legally need to buy another copy. 

Regards, Greg


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

That's me all right. I get rambling on and muddy up the water.

My 10 year old PC was purchased with some earlier form of Microsoft. Can't even recall what edition. In about 2005 I bought the installation package Windows XP Home Edition, with product key etc, and installed it in my system along with new RAM and a DVD. Now it's pretty much obsolete except for XP which I like. I bought a new PC and all I want is to be able to install my own existing XP package in my own new PC.

Will Microsoft let me do that or was it a complete waist of time keeping the darn thing on a shelf?

Thanks

Dave


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I would think you could install it on the new machine. However, getting all the right device drivers may be an issue as the machine will come preloaded with Windows 7 along with its device drivers. 

I suppose much would depend upon the level of your technical expertise and how comfortable you are determining which device drivers you need for the new hardware, finding and downloading them, loading them into the system, and dealing with possible problems. To me, that's a lot of trouble to go to to save $179.00, but that's just me.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 13 Apr 2010 07:33 PM 
I would think you could install it on the new machine. However, getting all the right device drivers may be an issue as the machine will come preloaded with Windows 7 along with its device drivers. 

I suppose much would depend upon the level of your technical expertise and how comfortable you are determining which device drivers you need for the new hardware, finding and downloading them, loading them into the system, and dealing with possible problems. To me, that's a lot of trouble to go to to save $179.00, but that's just me. 
I agree with Dwight.. Unless you are really comfortable finding and installing all the drivers, it may be worth it to just pay someone else to install it.. Also, I'd suggest going to Windows 7 while you're at it.. I love it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, on the liscense key is not an OEM key, and not tied to that specific piece of hardware. 

I'd try it on that facet of your question. 

To the hardware, it depends on the hardware. For the mother board, XP will support virtually all the chip sets out there, if you can be more specific I can help more. 

The driver issues will be more along peripherals, especially the graphics card. If you can find XP drivers for the motherboard and the graphics card, you are probably fine. 

You can give the model numbers of them here to help. Pretty easy to look up online. 

I think Windows 7 is OK, but it really has nothing I want myself. I will eventually change over (I'll be forced to) but for now, I get more performance and less "do you really want to do this" and "this requires administrator" access popups in XP. 

Also, there are some nasty quirks that are just irritating. 

So, My 10 computers are all on XP... I'm happy... I don't need 4 gigs of ram per computer, and I surely don't need to go through the **** of finding my old software does not work on Win 7.... which a lot of it does not. 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. I just had to add this: right now my take on Windows 7 is like an order I heard dictated in Starbucks:

Customer: I'll have a vente decaf latte, no foam, skim milk, artificial sweetner

Starbucks employee to guy making it: one vente "why bother"


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I have built several machines from parts over the las couple of years. When You buy parts like this, the motherboard comes with a drivers disk that, so far, works well with Windows XP. I have issues with HP & Compaq, to name a few, because they do not make available drivers for anything except the version of Windows that comes on that particular mode.


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Heh heh heh, kinda like the super-socket.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ShadsTrains on 13 Apr 2010 07:53 PM 
Posted By Dwight Ennis on 13 Apr 2010 07:33 PM 
I would think you could install it on the new machine. However, getting all the right device drivers may be an issue as the machine will come preloaded with Windows 7 along with its device drivers. 

I suppose much would depend upon the level of your technical expertise and how comfortable you are determining which device drivers you need for the new hardware, finding and downloading them, loading them into the system, and dealing with possible problems. To me, that's a lot of trouble to go to to save $179.00, but that's just me. 
I agree with Dwight.. Unless you are really comfortable finding and installing all the drivers, it may be worth it to *just pay someone else to install it*.. Also, I'd suggest going to Windows 7 while you're at it.. I love it. You bet! I have no intention of doing this myself. The computer I'm getting is right up to date with all the latest bells and whistles but it comes with no software of course. The techie asked me what I want to load it with and I said XP of course because that is what I have on my shelf and that is what I'm comfy with. He said I can't use my XP disk even though I bought it myself. Doesn't seem right that's all. I'm going to pay him almost 200 bucks and he's going to load up from a new disk I already have??? Jeez!! 

Anyway, I'm trying to find out directly from Microsoft but has anyone ever tried to get through the links??


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

The old original XP disc likely will be a problem, there are drivers required of late model equipment that a new copy of XP will incorporate. Your original disc can be used buts needs to be re-created with Windows service packs onboard. You can build a new disc with XP and service pack 3 by slip-streaming or burning the service packs together with your original XP disc, creating a new disc that has all the current updates and drivers incorporated therein. 

If your not computer savvy, ask the tech how much to burn a new disc for you and use same. 

Michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So they are building you a computer. 

Give them your disk and the key... tell them to install it. If it does not "activate", then tell them to sell you a copy of XP and install that. 

From a legal perspective, read this forum entry, and read the one by the moderator, where he tells you to activate by phone, then you can talk to a microsoft person... I think you can do this. 


*http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/...bd1a5be10/* 


the search function on the microsoft web site works.

Regards, Greg


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By dawinter on 13 Apr 2010 06:23 PM 


That's me all right. I get rambling on and muddy up the water.

My 10 year old PC was purchased with some earlier form of Microsoft. Can't even recall what edition. In about 2005 I bought the installation package Windows XP Home Edition, with product key etc, and installed it in my system along with new RAM and a DVD. Now it's pretty much obsolete except for XP which I like. I bought a new PC and all I want is to be able to install my own existing XP package in my own new PC.

Will Microsoft let me do that or was it a complete waist of time keeping the darn thing on a shelf?

Thanks

Dave



Installing XP again is very easy to do. First configure the BIOS to read the CD drive first. Put the XP CD in the drive and restart the computer. It will boot to the XP CD. You may be asked to call Microsoft to get a new product code key. The phone number is on the screen, it gets right thru right away. You give them the old code on the disk and they give you a new one. Type in the new code and away you go. On a new PC, you should be good with the drivers. If you have to install drivers, they are a little more work. You have to know exactly what hardware you have. You need the original CD's for those drivers or download from the manufacturer. 


$179?????????? That guy is keeping secrets from his wife.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, found XP home for $74 on the net. 

Regards, Greg


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 13 Apr 2010 08:51 PM 
So they are building you a computer. 

Give them your disk and the key... tell them to install it. If it does not "activate", then tell them to sell you a copy of XP and install that. 

From a legal perspective, read this forum entry, and read the one by the moderator, where he tells you to activate by phone, then you can talk to a microsoft person... I think you can do this. 


*http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/...bd1a5be10/* 


the search function on the microsoft web site works.

Regards, Greg 


We went thru this drill about a month ago. Didn't even talk to a living person. The computer voice babe handled everything.


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## Twisted Weasel RR (Jan 17, 2010)

Dave, 

The short answer is yes you can re-use you XP software, what you are paying for when you buy software is not the software it self but license agreement it self. Under the terms of that license agreement it can only be installed on one machine using that COA, so you would have to uninstall it on your old machine first. But tell me this is the XP an upgrade or a full version? If it is an upgrade you would have to handle the install different then a full version.

Kelly


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 
I agree with Shad, I love Win-7, Microsoft finally got it right, it does have a small learning curve and if backward compatibility is a issue, make sure you get the 32bit version of Win-7...NOT the 64bit version that many venders are pushing as a upgrade. 
I have currently have (12) computers with various operating systems (2 with XP, 1 with Vista, 8 with win-7 32bit and 1 with win-7 64bit) on my computer I run the 64bit version, and because of the 64bit OS it doesn't run some of the old programs, Win-7 has a "compatibility mode" for the old OS programs and so far 32bit Win-7 has run every thing I've put on it which includes some really, really old (DOS, win 3.0, and win 95) applications and games, I'm sure there are some that may not on 32bit Win-7 but I haven't found them yet....


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Been here done this a few times with Server Motherboards and most recently about six months ago when I built a HTPC (home theatre PC), I purchased a relatively new SuperMicro high end motherboard. I tried to use one of the many XP Home, XP Professional, WIN Server renditions and even Windows Home Server discs I had on hand, negative results were garnered form all (albeit they were older discs without Service Pack's onboard) 

As far as licensing or activating your original XP disc, trust me on this you do not need a new copy of XP if you have the "Certificate of Authenticity" your good to go from this perspective.... 

Your original disc will load, I don't recall the fault or error code that will eventually expose itself, you'll never get as far starting the program without your XP copy slip-streamed into a new CD-Rom with Service Pack #3, see my previous post. 

As I mentioned in a previous post the problem with utilizing your original XP disc is centered around the lack of Service Packs that were later included with NEW copies of XP. 

If you perform a Google search with "slipstreaming" you'll find numerous "How to's". If you think about it this slipstreaming concept its quite beneficial in the scheme of things, as it’s a great time saver which removes the need to update your software multiple times after the initial installation. 
Not to far down the road XP will NO longer be supported by Microsoft, arhhhhhhhhh. 


FWIW: 
You can install nearly any MS Windows based program three times before such time you have to call and request an activation code from a human being while explaining the need thereof. If you haven't tried to activate your aforementioned software within the last year or so worry not, it can be done effortlessly online. You do NOT need to uninstall the XP program on your dinosaur....

Michael


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Coud he install the old Hard Drive as a slave and run stuff off of it? What about as another Master? Do not some mother boards have slots for two masters?


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

Posted By Twisted Weasel RR on 13 Apr 2010 09:05 PM 
Dave, 

The short answer is yes you can re-use you XP software, what you are paying for when you buy software is not the software it self but license agreement it self. Under the terms of that license agreement it can only be installed on one machine using that COA, so you would have to uninstall it on your old machine first. But tell me this is the XP an upgrade or a full version? If it is an upgrade you would have to handle the install different then a full version.

Kelly 
The short answer..........depends. If he bought a "Retail" version of XP, he can reuse it.
Even though he bought XP and didn't get it with his computer, it could still be an OEM version that can't be transferred.
The OEM version is available from software dealers at less than half the price of the retail version.
4 out of 5 of my computers running XP have OEM versions that I bought and installed myself.
Ralph


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Ralph Berg on 14 Apr 2010 04:35 AM 
Posted By Twisted Weasel RR on 13 Apr 2010 09:05 PM 
Dave, 

The short answer is yes you can re-use you XP software, what you are paying for when you buy software is not the software it self but license agreement it self. Under the terms of that license agreement it can only be installed on one machine using that COA, so you would have to uninstall it on your old machine first. But tell me this is the XP an upgrade or a full version? If it is an upgrade you would have to handle the install different then a full version.

Kelly 
The short answer..........depends. If he bought a "Retail" version of XP, he can reuse it.
Even though he bought XP and didn't get it with his computer, it could still be an OEM version that can't be transferred.
The OEM version is available from software dealers at less than half the price of the retail version.
4 out of 5 of my computers running XP have OEM versions that I bought and installed myself.
Ralph 


Because the OEM is a lot cheaper








You either pay twice and reserve the right to reinstall on another computer later, or you go "cheap" and lock the OS to that computer. 

I use mostly OEM, and installing XP on a new computer is like running a Gas/electric Hybrid automobile on Diesel...
Buy an OEM of Win7 and be done with it, if you get trouble you can even run XP with XP mode as all win7 licenses comes with a license for XP and Vista baked in (Ballmer said that byuing Win7 would entitle you to run any older version of the same OS on the computer).


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Used XP for years.

Like Win 7 a lot.

Skipped Vista after watching it on coworker's computers. Glad they had it so we knew our software runs on it, but they've all moved to 7 too.

Have a friend to still maintains "Win 98 was the last working OS Microsoft ever made."


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I have several "builder" or what others are calling OEM versions of XP, they work the same as retail versions without issue for me. You can install these versions on any computer, as many times as you require and when ever you like (software activation codes are required same as retail versions) OEM and Builders versions of XP are not the same there is a distinct difference! The Builders XP software offerings available to system and custom builders is always much cheaper and available at most places that offer individual PC components; reason being is there is NO software support offered through Microsoft, in this case you get what you pay for! 

Actual OEM versions of XP from Dell and HP are propitiatory as noted previously by others. The software validates the computer or more specifically the motherboard if it is not one of their own; an error code is shared suggesting same and your installation is dumped. 

Michael


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By John J on 14 Apr 2010 12:48 AM 
Coud he install the old Hard Drive as a slave and run stuff off of it? What about as another Master? Do not some mother boards have slots for two masters? 
Yeap, the original IDE hard drive can be used as a slave, its a plug and play adventure. Weather or not it's slave or a master it depends only on which header its connected to (one master/slave per header) Most motherboards have multiple headers for hard disks and ancillary drives supporting at least (4) individual disc drives. Problem of late is the older IDE drive headers are being phased out in favor of SATA, SATAII and others. So if you have aspirations to utilize an IDE or EIDE drive you need to be sure the motherboard will support same with new equipment. 

Michael


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 14 Apr 2010 08:18 AM 

Actual OEM versions of XP from Dell and HP are propitiatory as noted previously by others. The software validates the computer or more specifically the motherboard if it is not one of their own; an error code is shared suggesting same and your installation is dumped. 

Michael 

Same as for a previously installed OEM, you can't install it on a new computer, unless it has an identical motherboard. And even then you have to call Microsofts support to get a "custom" activation code.
OEM and full license are two different beasts alltogether, it's been some time since an XP OEM would allow itself to be reinstalled on another motherboard. No matter the maker.
To get an OEM version of 7 for a laptop that came with Vista you can get that trough the Original Equipment Manufacturer (no price for what OEM stands for







)


So Basicly, if the license sticker says anything about OEM you can not use it on a new computer and the sticker should be attached to the computer it belongs to per the license agreement. However if it is one of those 'blue envelope thingies with a bunch of text and a license sticker that is attached to the envelope', then you may be in business .


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,

Now, why didn't you buy a Mac?!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

*DANGER Will Robinson!! Militant Mac user approaching!!!







*


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight,

LOL!! I have a Dell laptop, Compaq laptop, MB has a new HP laptop, and our personal computer is a MacBook. Hands down, the MacBook is the best piece of equipment in the house, and it is the oldest.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Of course someone just HAD to talk about Macs, even though the title asks please.

And he want's XP, but of course someone had to contrast os's.

I guess this is the sign that all useful suggestions have been given already.

Greg


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

To sum it up
You can use the XP disc and license you have if it's not an earlier OEM, and if you install it yourself. 

You can not demand of an OEM that he installs 'your' XP license, and if you do the actual work installing your five-six year old XP will cost more in man-hours than it would be to buy any OS (including MAC).I know, I just installed an XP SP2 disc this week, and with all the updates and installs it took close to two full days.

Guessing that you have an XP SP1 disc I'd estimate another three-four hours.
So if he agrees to install your 'old' XP license, do not agree to let him charge by the hour, then it would be far cheaper to buy any other OS and throw away the old disc. 


Win7 for comparison can be up and running from scratch in about four hours, and that is with office install and removing all the crap that comes with the 'regular Dell'.
Just to get some perspective. 

Running XP on a new computer is like I said earlier like putting diesel on a hybrid, or an even better analogy 'putting sails on the USS Nimitz'. New OSes are made for new computers. If you must have XP you can make Win7 look, act and feel like XP or even Win2000 with the 'classic theme'
, I know many do


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

XP still faster and less memory. 

Some new hardware has no XP drivers. 

Win 7 is an eventuality. 

The Win 7 compatibility mode and virtual mode DO NOT work on all old XP programs. 

Be sure to have your facts straight before you just throw out an analogy. 

Regards, Greg


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 14 Apr 2010 11:45 AM 
XP still faster and less memory. 

Some new hardware has no XP drivers. 

Win 7 is an eventuality. 

The Win 7 compatibility mode and virtual mode DO NOT work on all old XP programs. 

Be sure to have your facts straight before you just throw out an analogy. 

Regards, Greg 
My daily reality:

Most new hardware has no XP drivers, most XP machines are old hardware so drivers exist, even the newest machines we did get with 'downgrade to XP' has no drivers for certain functions.

Hence we have given up using XP on new machines in our organization, it's not worth the hassle.
And why bother, when 7 is so much better and more efficient, albeit on new hardware. 


If it gives you peace of mind, run 7 with classic theme, but don't waste a nuclear reactor because you are fond of sails and ropes.


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

When I mentioned 'any other OS' it includes any imaged XP installs the OEM you are using might have, but you will not save any money by having 'your own' XP, it's the work that costs


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's not more efficient, and for me, it has no new features I need. 

The themes mean nothing, they are "window dressing" like vista and win7 graphics, still on top of SAME operating system... 

It's not cut and dried as you put it, otherwise corporate America would have changed in a flash. 

It needs more cpu and more ram. My netbook with an Atom processor runs faster on XP than Win7 and it has the latest Atom processor and 2 gigs. 

My Sony dual core 2.33 MHz laptop with an Nvidia card is noticably faster on XP than Win 7 

The last 4 Dell laptops I bought (in last 2 months) were E6400 and E6500 machines (latest hardware) and we tested both Win 7 and XP on them... XP faster. 

Not everyone NEEDS a dumbed down graphic interface, or fancy graphics, or continuous harrassment from the operating system about "do you really, really want to do this" as the screen dims and everything else comes to a halt. 

So, it's not cut and dried... I will eventually have to go there, just because of software offerings, and new hardware, but I have 10 computers and buy all computers for a company of about 700... 

Not every "new" thing is an across the board improvement.... 

Greg


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Hagen on 14 Apr 2010 11:33 AM 
To sum it up
You can use the XP disc and license you have if it's not an earlier OEM, and if you install it yourself. 

You can not demand of an OEM that he installs 'your' XP license, and if you do the actual work installing your five-six year old XP will cost more in man-hours than it would be to buy any OS (including MAC).I know, I just installed an XP SP2 disc this week, and with all the updates and installs it took close to two full days.

Guessing that you have an XP SP1 disc I'd estimate another three-four hours.
So if he agrees to install your 'old' XP license, do not agree to let him charge by the hour, then it would be far cheaper to buy any other OS and throw away the old disc. 


Win7 for comparison can be up and running from scratch in about four hours, and that is with office install and removing all the crap that comes with the 'regular Dell'.
Just to get some perspective. 

Running XP on a new computer is like I said earlier like putting diesel on a hybrid, or an even better analogy 'putting sails on the USS Nimitz'. New OSes are made for new computers. If you must have XP you can make Win7 look, act and feel like XP or even Win2000 with the 'classic theme'
, I know many do




This is exactly why I mentioned slipstreaming your original XP disc with current hotfixes, updates and service packs.... Its saves mucho time after the inital installation if you can even get that far without utilizing a slipstreamed disc in the beginning with newer equipment. 

Michael


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 14 Apr 2010 01:08 PM 
This is exactly why I mentioned slipstreaming your original XP disc with current hotfixes, updates and service packs.... Its saves mucho time after the inital installation if you can even get that far without utilizing a slipstreamed disc in the beginning with newer equipment. 

Michael 

But that requires time and an OEM agreement with Microsoft.
And if the builder already has one he can use then he will of course want to use that one.

My point is that it is work and time involved either way, and that is money which is probably the reason why the builder want to avoid the extra cost. It's not to be unreasonable.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Mac is either for final cut pro or adobe users, or people who really don't use their computer much (software for mac osx isn't exactly plentiful - its getting better though). I have come to this conclusion lol, yet they are beautiful and use top notch hardware (but sometimes skimp on the cooling dept, more form than function)

BTW, So far with the win7 machines I have installed it on, its snappier than windows XP (impressively! as long as you have the ram for it) and so far has worked on every pc I have installed it on (even my dell mini 9 running a slow atom processor). You almost have to install 0 drivers for win7, it is impressive piece of code Microsoft has come out with. (and yes vista was a POS lol). I don't say things too lightly, and am in charge of the IT dept at my company (in IT for windows, osx and linux lol 11 years now).

As for XP, install it on your new computer, call up microsoft activation telephone number, and say you installed it on the same pc again and it gave you that error and stick to your story, they will give you the unlock code! (having done this about 5 times hehe)

Anyway, with that being said, I usually stay out of computer conversations on MLS hehe










Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I hear the XP vs. Win7 speed agument all day. 

When I get down to it, 99% of the people are comparing their OLD, MESSED UP, corrupted, XP installation with a factory fresh Win7 installation. That is not apples to apples. 

But I hear it all the time. Daily. 

I've done the apples to apples comparison. Same hardware, factory fresh installations of both OS, Win 7 is ok, but XP still faster. Is it much faster? Depends on the hardware. 

But, will be a moot point for 99% of all people now or real soon. 

For the few of us who can control their destinies (at least for now), it's not a cut and dried decision. 

Regards, Greg


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Hagen on 14 Apr 2010 01:21 PM 
Posted By Michael Glavin on 14 Apr 2010 01:08 PM 
This is exactly why I mentioned slipstreaming your original XP disc with current hotfixes, updates and service packs.... Its saves mucho time after the inital installation if you can even get that far without utilizing a slipstreamed disc in the beginning with newer equipment. 

Michael 

But that requires time and an OEM agreement with Microsoft.
And if the builder already has one he can use then he will of course want to use that one.

My point is that it is work and time involved either way, and that is money which is probably the reason why the builder want to avoid the extra cost. It's not to be unreasonable.



Not sure why you suggest it requuires an agreement with MS, I don't have any such agreement and do it all the time, you did mention OEM, I'm talking about slipstreaming original XP retail and System Builder's software only, OEM is another consideration and you can slipstream them too; been there done it with Dell software on Dell desktops and I'm pertty sure I slipstreamed the HP XP software for my office desktops too last year. Again this was done for simplicity after the fact and or minimal updating efforts. In other circumstances as I mentioned previously it was required to load the XP software on new equipment.


Michael


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

My son put Win 7 on his machine recently. It's nice. I think it was $70


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 14 Apr 2010 02:06 PM 

Not sure why you suggest it requuires an agreement with MS, I don't have any such agreement and do it all the time, you did mention OEM, I'm talking about slipstreaming original XP retail and System Builder's software only, OEM is another consideration and you can slipstream them too; been there done it with Dell software on Dell desktops and I'm pertty sure I slipstreamed the HP XP software for my office desktops too last year. Again this was done for simplicity after the fact and or minimal updating efforts. In other circumstances as I mentioned previously it was required to load the XP software on new equipment.


Michael 

There's the small difference between possible and legal 
Of course Dell (for instance) can slipstream an XP install, and that is what they do to make 'their' OEM 'version' of XP 

Slipstreaming your own XP is a breach of the licensing, if I am not mistaken, I could quite possibly be, and I would almost hope I am 

I have had to do it once to install on a floppyless server... argh, noone uses floppies anymore and XP depends on floppies to load raid drivers, that is the most funny thing about installing XP on a new computer, it woun't even install without a bunch of hassle, or time, or knowledge on how to circumwent the original intention of both hardware maker and software maker...

Not that I really think MS really cares much about slipstreamed XP discs anymore, but it's still in the agreement.

Registered OEMs can do this within their licence, and it's free to register as such, but still


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Greg
7 may not be faster than XP on every machine, my experience from new installs of both on the same machine is (Acer 480G) is that they are about even. But 7 can do more.

I like it for the control it gives me with GPOs, I can control almost every little setting on every client machine trough Group Policy, we can soon ditch Citrix because of the built in Direct Access of 7.

Just a bunch of positives for us, but not all companies are equal


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Hagen on 14 Apr 2010 02:59 PM 
Posted By Michael Glavin on 14 Apr 2010 02:06 PM 

Not sure why you suggest it requuires an agreement with MS, I don't have any such agreement and do it all the time, you did mention OEM, I'm talking about slipstreaming original XP retail and System Builder's software only, OEM is another consideration and you can slipstream them too; been there done it with Dell software on Dell desktops and I'm pertty sure I slipstreamed the HP XP software for my office desktops too last year. Again this was done for simplicity after the fact and or minimal updating efforts. In other circumstances as I mentioned previously it was required to load the XP software on new equipment.


Michael 

There's the small difference between possible and legal 
Of course Dell (for instance) can slipstream an XP install, and that is what they do to make 'their' OEM 'version' of XP 

Slipstreaming your own XP is a breach of the licensing, if I am not mistaken, I could quite possibly be, and I would almost hope I am 

I have had to do it once to install on a floppyless server... argh, noone uses floppies anymore and XP depends on floppies to load raid drivers, that is the most funny thing about installing XP on a new computer, it woun't even install without a bunch of hassle, or time, or knowledge on how to circumwent the original intention of both hardware maker and software maker...

Not that I really think MS really cares much about slipstreamed XP discs anymore, but it's still in the agreement.

Registered OEMs can do this within their licence, and it's free to register as such, but still 



I'm not trying to be difficult or argumentative but believe you are mistaken with regard to slipstreaming and licensing agreements. Slipstreaming simply adds and or replaces code and or updates as well as services packs available from Microsoft together with your valid original XP disc onto a new install disc. It is legal and permissible to make a copy of your original software per the MS license agreement. A slipstreamed XP installation disc ultimately is the same as installing the original program, obtaining an activation key from MS and subsequently updating same. There is no OEM or licensing considerations in play because nothing has changed in this perspective. If I am incorrect please provide data to support your position. 

The way I interpret what you’re suggesting with regard to slipstreaming is its some kind of code or licensing hack or work around. This is simply not the case, I and others are simply updating our installation discs with current code, drivers and security hot-fixes it’s all good and perfectly legal to the best of my knowledge. 


Michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

We have been doing slipstreaming at work for a while. Many of our computers are Dells and were purchased at XP SP1, we have made a slipstreamed disk from the original Dell install disk to take us to SP3 and several other updates (like the DST stuff). 

I did go to the microsoft site, no restrictions on this that I could find and everything supports what Michael has said. 

All you are doing is adding updates to the original XP disk you have a license for. The updates sometimes have license agreements, but reading these I can find no conflict. 

A time-honored way to do this, and the microsoft site has instructions for slipstreaming, which, if illegal, why would they tell you how to do it? 

Regards, Greg


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By afinegan on 14 Apr 2010 01:38 PM 
Mac is either for final cut pro or adobe users, or people who really don't use their computer much (software for mac osx isn't exactly plentiful - its getting better though)










Andrew 
Sorry, I know, but when outdated drivel like this keeps being spread, I have to speak up. 

Macs run Windows, Linux, and Mac OS, all three, really well. There is no lack of plentiful software, they run it all.

I return you to you regularly scheduled how do I get my PC to do what I want it to thread.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

I too have to take exception to what has been said about Mac.... I mostly use the X.11 terminal system and I use it in my workstation for the design process. I will also admit that I use it to design my locomotives with (and to play Marathon with!)

regards

ralph


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

[offtopic_on]
I was talking about the mac only operating system

if your in pc mode all the time on the mac, then its an overpriced pc







(yes some company's make pc's just as nice as a mac for less money) 


That being said, I still want my home automated by linux, controlled by iphones and ipads, and have pc's for gaming/business hehe


Don't take me too seriously, the paragraph before this was just poking fun at it lol 

Plus if im wrong, I want to learn to be right, its just how I am (but you would have to have more than 11 years professional exp in overseeing all 3 operating systems and hardware that goes with it lol)
In the end, buy what you like, do what you like, there is no absolute answer for "best" (on that note I am a total noobie when it comes to lathes and mills, I will be asking those questions when I get my workbench setup in the garage hehe) 


[/offtopic off]


Slipstreaming is perfectly legal. You can copy Microsoft operating system installation CD/DVDs as many times as you want. The license is not the physical CD/DVD; it is the Product Key. You must have a unique Product Key (or be appropriately licensed) for each installation of a Microsoft operating system.


So you should feel fine about doing slipstreaming and copying your installation CD/DVDs. Don't worry about it.

or 

Just install it and activate it by phone if the internet activation doesn't work 


Andrew


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Thanks for the slipstreeaming correction guys. 
I must have been too quick on the reading part when we needed to get those servers online a year ago. 
Nothing pleases me more than being wrong on this.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Quote:

Plus if im wrong, I want to learn to be right, its just how I am (but you would have to have more than 11 years professional exp in overseeing all 3 operating systems and hardware that goes with it lol)

Unquote:

I started with UNIX in 1976. In 1986 I was designing computers. In 1996 I was running a European Dept about Networks and Bespoke installations. In 2006 I was promoted to Head of European Design and Installation. The design computer system that we use cost £8million and I designed it. I read every CV from every applicant that applies....

Yours Respectfully.

Rheinhard Manfreid ben Brades B.Ed B.Sc M.Sc M.I.A.A.P. PhD.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ralphbrades on 16 Apr 2010 01:49 AM 
Quote:

Plus if im wrong, I want to learn to be right, its just how I am (but you would have to have more than 11 years professional exp in overseeing all 3 operating systems and hardware that goes with it lol)

Unquote:

I started with UNIX in 1976. In 1986 I was designing computers. In 1996 I was running a European Dept about Networks and Bespoke installations. In 2006 I was promoted to Head of European Design and Installation. The design computer system that we use cost £8million and I designed it. I read every CV from every applicant that applies....

Yours Respectfully.

Rheinhard Manfreid ben Brades B.Ed B.Sc M.Sc M.I.A.A.P. PhD.



[bows down] Im not worthy Im not worthy







In 1986, i was 7 years old and playing space quest on my apple IIgs  (yes I learned how to type on that game lol)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

In 1976, I had been earning my living from programming or teaching computers for 7 years already. But that really has nothing to do with the unix/linux/X11/Mac vs. Windows controversy (yes, Mac is Unix underneath a cute, but limited GIU). 

I worked on the Xerox Parc system when we were designing graphical interfaces in Hewlett Packard. 

The boys who made Windows and the Mac GUI took it from the Xerox system... now THAT was really ahead of it's time. 

Anyway, the Mac vs. PC (which is really Mac vs. Windoze) will never be answered.... this was a thread about windows XP, but just one tiny mention of Mac, and the Mac people come out and get in the mix. 

Gee, this is sort of like if I ever say anything about Bridgewerks or DCS not being the ultimate solution for every application, and C...k and R....d come dashing in... 

Oh well, I guess the thread is wandering because all the good advice has already been given. 

Wonder how the new computer is coming? What actually (or is going to) happen(ed)? 


Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I will also admit that I use [a Mac] to design my locomotives with 
Hmmm, I've seen your locos. If only Steve Jobs knew his machine was being used for such maniacal mayhem...  

Later, 

K


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## CCSII (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 Apr 2010 10:10 AM 
... Anyway, the Mac vs. PC (which is really Mac vs. Windoze) will never be answered.... this was a thread about windows XP, but just one tiny mention of Mac, and the Mac people come out and get in the mix. ...


Regards, Greg 

Sorry Greg, didn't realize you controlled the gag orders on here. I should refrain from posting until I get permission from you, right?

A Mac people


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't think your sarcastic remark was needed, nor even did it address what I said. 

The friggin' TITLE of the thread HAS "Please don't say buy an apple".... your disrespect is to the original poster too. 

How about you start a thread about a specific upgrade question on a Mac, and people come in and start arguing about Windows vs. Mac? 

You think that is courteous? 

It's a free forum, and I DEFINITELY ENTITLED to make the comment I did, and there is no implication of gag orders, nothing nasty, just a request for courtesy, which apparently you don't believe in since you want to come back to my post with a nasty, sarcastic remark. 

Greg 

p.s. I have a real name, I don't hide behind "A Mac People" (English is "A Mac Person") or CCSSII


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

{moderator hat on} 
Two points: First, no one has suggested the solution would be to "buy a Mac." The "Mac people" chimed in to correct a common misconception about Macs--no different from proponents of one form of control chiming in to a discussion of alternatives to correct misconceptions about their preferred means of propulsion. The original wishes of the topic originator have been respected. (And thread drift is inevitable if the thread progresses long enough. In reading this thread, there's more "XP vs. Windows 7" than "Mac vs. PC" in it.) 

Second, screen names and pseudonyms are perfectly acceptable forms of address on these forums. If a member wishes to "hide behind" such a name, that's their right to do so. Criticizing them for it will not be tolerated. 

{moderator hat off} 

Later, 

K


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

By the time I posted my question to Dave about his choice, the answers to his original question had been given. I don't think it is disrespectful to ask the question and that was not my intent. Just curious. I learn a lot from the thought processess of others and perhaps there was something I hadn't seen before that Dave did. No biggie.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Much thanks to everyone. There are obviously more computer guys here than train guys and I learned a lot. What OEM stands for just for one thing







More important I got a bit of background on XP, and any other package, to understand why it's usually best to have the builder install the software right at the start just to be sure it talks to the hardware that I'm buying. As a result I wrote off the purchase of the old XP as a 'fun time' much like a round or two of golf, and I'm moving on.

BTW, I only said not to tell me to get a Mac because that it pretty much the first thing one hears when ever the opportunity for discussion come up. Odd, you'd think that Mac had more than 5% of the market. 
Anyway.....

Dave


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