# Motor swap on Bachmann 4-6-0



## skierbri10 (Jul 25, 2012)

Hey everyone, I am new to large scale having spent most of my train time in HO and O. I also have extensive background in 1/10 rc car racing. I have searched far and wide for this and have come up empty handed. I want to convert my Bachmann 4-6-0 to RC. I believe it is either a gen 5 or gen 6, I got it out of the Durango & Silverton Passenger starter set. With my RC car stuff I have extra fwd and rev esc's. However, they are for brushless motors only. I would like to use these ESC's since I have them already collecting dust. My friend has a similar issue with his brushless motors and said I can have whatever I want. My issue is I don't know the specs on the stock motors in the 4-6-0, so I am not sure what brushless motor I should swap in. Does anyone here have any advice on the matter? If his motors won't work what specs should I look for in brushless motors? I know I can just get a brushed esc, but that technology is slowing fading and brushless is the future and I am not one to live in the past. (except for my steam locos) lol Thanks for the help. Brian


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I doubt very much brushless motors will ever be used for model trains. The problem is one of economics. Every car boat and plane is a self contained unit and can thus be fitted with whatever provides the highest performing technology. In their cases, brushless motors and ESC's to suit. Brushless motors require three wires from the speed controllers, brushed motors only two. 
Trains (locos) can be run in two different mediums. Regular track power and/or battery power. To be economically viable they must be able to perform in *BOTH* environments. It could be done by fitting extra electronics in each loco to convert the regular DC from the track. The consumer will not agree with extra cost for something not everyone needs.


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## skierbri10 (Jul 25, 2012)

I have to disagree. Number of wires doesn't matter when my train will not be running on track power ever. Of course similar statements were exclaimed when people spoke of smartphones. Brushless motors are efficient and have little maintenance. Running my train as an rc unit with a battery would be ideal for a brushless. Just need to know the motor specs on the stock Bachmann 4-6-0. I will be doing this once I find the motor I need. I just can't afford your esc's or else I would just go with one of them.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry, but you miss the point. 
I am not saying it isn't a good idea. Rather, Large Scale trains must serve two purposes. Virtually 100% of them require that they be run on two wire DC tracks. That is not going to change any time soon. Even though battery power came about mainly as a way of solving the effects of weathering by Mother Nature, it is still just a drop in the Large Scale bucket. 
Unfortunately brushless motors will not run on regular DC. Unless they will do so the market for them will never be there because any new Large Scale products *MUST* be backwardly compatible with any existing products. 
Good luck in your seach.


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## skierbri10 (Jul 25, 2012)

Definitely missed the point....lol sorry. Sure wish I could just purchase one of yours, but isn't in the budget at this point in time. However, my rc system can have 16 models I believe and eventually want to get one of your ESC's. Not knowing enough about them I have discerned that 2-wire brushless motors do exist. Don't know price, but that would be the main sticking point for our hobby I'm guessing. One advantage is being able to put a smaller size motor into a model, as well as possibly? being able to run more trains on standard power supplies. Anyway, I too hope I find the correct info, really all I need is the rpm's and torque specs of the stock motor. It probably doesn't matter much, I just do not want to destroy a gearbox finding out. lol


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess we can all learn something new every day. 
Do you have a source for the two wire brushless motors? If you do, perhaps you could also inform us as to which three wire brushless ESC would be used to run a "two wire" brushless motor .
Unless of course you are referring to the 2 x wire (so called) Coreless instrument motors such as those made by Canon, Faulhaber and others. These are readily available and quite expensive. They are often available with interchangeable gear heads to suit pretty well any ratio you want.


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## skierbri10 (Jul 25, 2012)

Now you have me thinking though, lol (bad news) I wonder what type of converter would be needed to do this with track power and not rc? Not that I want to do it, just curious.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

There is NO problem running the brushless motors on two wire DC track power with a brushless speed control, it simply is not plausible without the brushless ESC. Herein lays the problem for NON RC train applications, indeed some special dohicky could be pondered to create a simple brushless dumb speed control.

Brushless motors are great; they simply exceed the need for electric power in model trains. Add to this the complexity of a three phase ESC; RC control and the extra costs thereof I gotta ask myself why go there. The largest difference between atypical RC applications and trains is the motor RPM, power consumption and or amperage requirements. A typical large G scale locomotive pulls an average of a few amps, verses RC aircraft and car industries at the lower end of the spectrum consuming gobs of power in the area of 10 amps or more. I have some RC planes that consume 60 amps with nary a concern! 

The Bachman 4-6-0 engines typically use a diminutive little Mabuchi RS385PH inexpensive can motor; the wonders of gear reducers and or gearboxes allow these little motors to consume less than 1 amp under normal use.

Mabuchi RS-385PH spec sheet link below.
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_US/cat_files/rs_385ph.pdf

Michael


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## skierbri10 (Jul 25, 2012)

Fantastic!!!! Thanks for the info. I think we do have motors in that range, have to see if they are the correct size though.


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

The advantages of brushless is limitless. Efficiency and essentially forever power. The disadvanatge is of course cost. If you have an efficient powerful system, why would you want to be tied to track power? I am a steamy but real RC is my day job.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Posted By skierbri10 on 26 Jul 2012 06:53 PM 
Fantastic!!!! Thanks for the info. I think we do have motors in that range, have to see if they are the correct size though.


Where do you attach the wings to a 4-6-0?

Andrew


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