# Aluminum track



## Tom Thornton (Nov 18, 2008)

Anyone using aluminum track? I have moved and with the move my railroad is moving outdoors. My small indoor layout was all brass track. I see the aluminum track will cost much less than brass and wonder if I can use this to expand with. I hear it may not stand up to foot traffic.
What money the CFO said we can use I did not want it to all go to track. I posted on another forum and would like to hear from more guys that have used this kind of track.

Tom Thornton


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I think the lack of response here tells you something. As I said on the Aristo forum, the only thing it is good for outside is if you run battery power.
Paul


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## hcampbell (Jan 2, 2008)

I've used it in a raised bed for years and it's held up quite well. I drive it back down after the frost with a block of wood and a hammer. 
Deer or other heavy footed traffic would damage it though. 
By the way, Paul, I don't use battery power. just steam : ) 

Harvey C.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually I think the lack of responese is due more to the fact that those of us that have actually used and continue to use it just get tired of refuting all the urban legands.


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## rhyman (Apr 19, 2009)

Tom, 
I've been using aluminum rail outside since the mid 80's. Started with Micro Engineering code 250 on plastic tie strips ... have since switched over to Llagas Creek code 215 hand spiked to cedar ties. I do use code 215 nickel silver rail for all frogs and points, and at places like pathway crossings where it might get stepped on. I pre-paint the rail a rusty brown color before spiking it down. Needless to say, I run battery power exclusively.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Amen Rick!


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have mostly brass rail on my layout, but I do have several sections of code 332 aluminum flex (6ft'ers) I bought as an experiment. I really packed my low expectations...but that was 8 or 9 years ago, and the track still works fine! It's nice to be able to bend the track without a rail bender.








The only draw back, the transition from painted web to worn off railhead isn't very smooth. Looks like a little more ballast would help too!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Aluminum will stand up just fine to foot traffic provided it's on a solid foundation. (crushed stone, concrete, timber, etc.--anything that's not going to "give" when stepped on.) My dad's had aluminum code 332 rail down for 30 years, and it's never been damaged by stepping on it (and goodness knows it's been stepped on). I used aluminum code 250 rail on my previous railroad back in Rochester, and it--too--held up very well to foot traffic. Again, it was laid on a bed of well-tamped crusher fines. But that's the key to any successful railroad. If you're relying on the strength of your rails to keep your trackbed solid, you're asking for trouble. Build your roadbed so the strength/size of the rails is immaterial to the equation. 

As for aluminum and track power, it's a hung jury on this one. We started using aluminum rail and track power, and it worked very well for the 5 years before we fully converted to batteries. (The reason for that conversion had nothing to do with the performance of the aluminum track.) The key is good rail joints. We used nickel silver rail joiners and stainless steel screws (like prototype rail joiners, not the wrap-around fishplates we commonly think of in model railroading). Many of these joints still conduct electricity very well after 30 years, as there have been occasions where we've had to pump electrons through the rails for this or that purpose. I know others who have had similar results with aluminum rail and more traditional rail joints--both clamped and unclamped. On the other hand, there are also those who said it was a nightmare to use for track power. I don't know what the difference was between the situations. 

Personally, if I were to go track power, I'd probably look at the AMS code 250 brass track. It's pretty inexpensive as track goes, and has none of the "baggage" associated with aluminum, mythological or real. When I was price-comparing for my current railroad, it was equal or just a few pennies/foot more expensive than aluminum. If you're not going to go track power, by all means go with the aluminum if it's the cheapest. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tom, I reread the thread again, I don't see where you say track or battery power. 

I would use this fact as the first determiner, and biggest factor in the decision. 

Regards, Greg


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Not at that stage yet, but i fully intend on running battery power on aluminum rail. Biggest factor for me is the cost. Plus Llagas Creek has some nice looking code 250 with narrow gauge ties that will look great on my RR. 

Chris


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

When you are concerned with aluminum corrosion, like when you have different metal in contact with the aluminum, get a tube of Noalox (NO ALumininum OXidation) from home depot, in the electrical department, a little dab in rail joiners seems to help a lot. 

Regards, Greg


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## Tom Thornton (Nov 18, 2008)

Up till now I have had a small indoor layout with track power. All brass track. Right now I think I have enough brass track to build what I want for the main line. But I'd like to have a small yard like I did before. I will use all my yard track for the main.


Seems like I could get away with the yard and a spur with aluminum track. I want to move to battery power but funds are not there yet. The yard is more of a storage and staging than anything else. What do you guys think? Where might my problems be.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I tried aluminum track indoors with track power and that was a disaster. Would only stay clean for about an hour and then the passenger car lights would start flickering but maybe if I turned one car into a track cleaning car, that might have solved the track cleaning problem. 

Regardless that aluminum track was sold on eBay and replaced with stainless steel. 

That AMS brass track isn't really all that great either as it's made out of soft brass, or that would be my guess. I know of a indoor shopping mall layout that is using AMS 332 brass track..300' mainline w/ 30' curves and that track is wearing out. They run 100' trains something like 8 hours a day 6-7 days a week. That track has been down a year and they figure in the next year it'll be wore out. Aristo brass track is wearing about the same..oddly enough the old LGB brass track is holding up fine! Guess those Germans do know a thing or two?? Seems that Marty had some issues with AML track not holding it's gauge or something like that?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You did say battery. 

Oh, track power for now. 

Well, as Kevin mentioned, some people have great luck with aluminum. 

Some people have terrible luck with aluminum and power. 

It will be on a spur and the yard. Well, if you run locos through the yard and you have bad luck it won't work well. 

The problems are simple, if you are one of the people who has bad luck with aluminum and track power outdoors, you will have to find a way to make it better. 

Stainless steel rail clamps, antioxide "goop", more feeders may be necessary. 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Chuck is right, our customers have experienced the same with the soft brass. That's why ProTrack is only available in even a higher quality standard than you are used from LGB. One Christmas layout with the other manufacturer's soft Brass was already worn out in less than 2 weeks on a public Christmas layout.

As I always say, there are no miracles in life - you get what you pay for. It is not like one manufacturer wants to make a huge profit and the other wants to make little profit. Since even in China the resources (raw Brass wire) are sold at world market prices, the track from there, if cheaper - simply speaking - is cheaper (read inferior) track. Why? What else is there to track? You feed Brass into an extruding machine and you cut it to length. It is not like that you there are 100 Man hours that go into making the rail, were you profit from the the difference in labor costs (e.g. $.50/hour). In addition you have the longer transportation to pay for. So Brass rail is a slightly modified raw commodity which is a 100% correlated to the raw material.

Think of it as making cake. 1 pound butter, + 6 eggs, + 3 pounds of flower, + 2 cups of sugar. You butter is only some sort of fat, lets replace it with something cheaper, lets take the sugar out and replace it with corn syrup..... and so on, do you think you still get the same cake? (FYI, please no health discussions








)

AS far as dead sidings go, many of our customers like ProRail Display which is a PVC rail with regular HDPE ties. This is even more affordable than Aluminum and of course serves Battery Power as well.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Axel is that pvc pro rail uv protected for outdoor use, have you gotten any feedback from people who use it outdoors. I'm in West Ne. and weather can change daily here from 50's to 90's quickly, and winter is the same???????????????????? Thanks Regal


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## Tom Thornton (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks for the input guys. I think for now I will try some aluminum on a passing siding and see how it goes.

Tom Thornton


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Chris, 

One word of advice with the Llagas 1:20 track. If you can, get the pre-assembled track instead of just the rails and tie strips separately. The ties are a VERY tight fit on the base of the rail, and are a grand bugger to slide on. (Note also that only Llagas code 250 rails will work with their 1:20 tie strips. The base is narrower than most code 250.) When I was using them on my line in Rochester, I found I had cut the tie strips into 2-tie sections and slide them on like that, aided by copious amounts of soapy water. That's one reason I wanted to try the AMS track on my current railroad. (That, and I figured the brass would eventually weather to a nice dark color, saving me the trouble of painting it. (5 years later, it's still getting there...) I do like the looks of the Llagas ties, and they are worth the trouble of installing them from an aesthetic point of view. 

Later, 

K


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Regal

So far the feedback is all around positive. But since the rail has been introduced only this year it is too early for a 5 year analysis. PVC is naturally the strongest material that holds up to UV. I have a PVC pipe from the Radon exhaust on the roof that has not crumbled or disintegrated any other way - in 20 years. PVC is used in a lot of outdoor applications and doesn't require any fuurther UV stabalizer, compared to Styrene, HDPE, ABS.....


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Axel for answering my question. Regal


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

PVC has good, not excellent, UV resistance. Typically, carbon black is added to plastic to create higher UV resistance. 

The gray PVC conduit will last a good while in the sun, the black a lot longer. But, the UV resistance of this track is not clear, because it's not black. 

So, you are probably back to some base UV resistance of untreated PVC. 

It's certainly better than other plastics. 

Axel, why does the manufacturer not do accelerated UV testing, where they expose it to strong UV 24/7? This is a process as simple as getting a strong light source rich in the full spectrum of UV. 

*http://www.solarlight.com/services/services.html* 


Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Becasue it still takes too long.

But we added already color (PVC is white not grey or anythiogn else) We made it rust brown. So to your orgument it has already much better than default UV resistance and the one of PVC is already by far more "excellent' than any other Plastic I know (Styrene, ABS, ....)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Uhh... maybe you are upset at my post Axel, but you should have clicked the link and scrolled down... right there on the first page: 

You can simulate 5 years of exposure in 22 days... 10 years in 43 days. 

The "too long" comment does not hold water... 

Yes brown seems to be almost as good as black in increasing UV resistance. 

And yes, already acknowledged PVC much better than styrene, abs... yes in my previous post. 

You might want to see what they charge. If the test turns favorable then you have an additional selling point based on known technology of predicting UV resistance. 

(if not, don't tell us ha ha!) 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Upset never









I will pass this on to the factory.


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## LOST AND CONFUSED (Mar 7, 2008)

I had 300 feet outside in florida lasted only one season had problem conducting power I found american maine line sold flex track and converted to it all brass no problem since then cheap track 140 for 36 feet does not rust like lgb and aristo

ALSO buying used track is a good way to set up outside cheap clean track with brass cleaner and your all se. I have t 200 feet of used aristocraft. Alunium track works well out of the direct sun on any covered patio or porch
but does not like rain and creates dead spots between pieces have fun running the trains not looking for the dead spot in the track


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom: Using it for a siding for trying out the pros and cons sounds like the best way for you. If it works great if not your not out a bunch of bucks. Good luck. Later RJD


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 11 Jul 2010 10:17 AM 
Chris, 

One word of advice with the Llagas 1:20 track. If you can, get the pre-assembled track instead of just the rails and tie strips separately. The ties are a VERY tight fit on the base of the rail, and are a grand bugger to slide on. (Note also that only Llagas code 250 rails will work with their 1:20 tie strips. The base is narrower than most code 250.) When I was using them on my line in Rochester, I found I had cut the tie strips into 2-tie sections and slide them on like that, aided by copious amounts of soapy water. That's one reason I wanted to try the AMS track on my current railroad. (That, and I figured the brass would eventually weather to a nice dark color, saving me the trouble of painting it. (5 years later, it's still getting there...) I do like the looks of the Llagas ties, and they are worth the trouble of installing them from an aesthetic point of view. 

Later, 

K 

Kevin,

Thanks for the input, I intended on using the pre-assembled track. I will have a lot of other work to do, and hand laying track is not one of my specialties. I will probably spend some time in the shop painting the rail and ties to weather them, but that's about as far as i'm going.
Chris


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Posted By LOST AND CONFUSED on 11 Jul 2010 07:26 PM 
I had 300 feet outside in florida lasted only one season had problem conducting power I found american maine line sold flex track and converted to it all brass no problem since then cheap track 140 for 36 feet does not rust like lgb and aristo

ALSO buying used track is a good way to set up outside cheap clean track with brass cleaner and your all se. I have t 200 feet of used aristocraft. Alunium track works well out of the direct sun on any covered patio or porch
but does not like rain and creates dead spots between pieces have fun running the trains not looking for the dead spot in the track

Hey Lost and Confused, I'm setting up an elevated battery layout and if you want to sell the aluminum track you have send me a message.

russ


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## hawkfanjohn (Nov 17, 2009)

gregg~ never knew carbon black was a uv inhibiter~ sold vinyl fencing and decking amonst other things for 20+ years. Started as all white and shifted to offering colors. First fences I built 25 years ago still look and flex as good as brand new fencing! 

Can't say as I noticed any carbon black being used in the construction of coreless feed augers either. If carbon black really inhibits uv you would think they would use that instead of the expensive stuff they use. My guess the cheap vinyl they use as ties in GR track will not last anywhere near what all the vinyl fencing, decking, and siding that are currently all over the country


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