# LGB MTS Questions



## DanteHicks79 (Jun 19, 2013)

I recently took posession of a beautiful, barely used LGB 2018D 2-6-0 Mogul. 

While I plan to perform some extensive cosmetic modifications to the exterior of the locomotive, I also want to upgrade the electronics inside her to prepare for a multi-locomotive layout.

My previous setup was a one locomotive run (the ever trusty Stainz, or my brother's diesel switcher) and I just did track power with a controller/transformer connected to the track. Now that I have several locomotives, and am looking at taking my operation outdoors and into the garden, I'm leaning towards going specifically with the LGB MTS. However, I'm a complete newb when it comes to any digital control stuff in general.

What is recommended for this particular loco? MTS II? MTS III? The goal is to eventually have the setup be wirelessly controlled, with a command base in a central location recieving the control signals and distributing them through the tracks. Since there is at least tunnel planned for my layout, I don't want to use a wireless system where the locomotives themselves are receiving the signals through antennas.

My desire is to continue with track power as opposed to going battery operated (like most railroads, I'm far too broke to consider putting batteries in all my locos at this time)(I am aware that brass rails outdoors will require quite a bit of cleaning if I am to use track power).

* Which card is ideal to install into that particular locomotive? 
* What remote/base stations will work with that card?
* Do other LGB enthusiasts recommend a different DCC control system from another manufacturer? 
* What are the advantages and disadvantages to the LGB MTS? 
* What are the advantages/disadvantages to other DCC control schemes?
* How difficult would it be to eventually connect a computer to whatever system I end up with to control it through software, as well as still retaining the remote control functionality?

Thanks for any and all answers!

(also, how does one change their avatar on this forum? I added a profile picture, but that doesn't seem to be my avatar, and I couldn't find any setting in the menu for altering my profile/account to add/chnage an avatar - thanks!)

(sorry for the novel!)


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I would not start out by buying an LGB MTS system unless forced to. 

There are many good DCC systems out there, better value, entry level ones, more capable ones, ones with better computer interfaces and support and ones with throttles easier to use. 

Hard to tell you want to buy, you really need to look at where you are going with your size of your "fleet", and what you want to be able to do... maybe DCC is not for you... (it is for me though). 

I suggest, besides getting advice here, you read more on the various DCC systems, go to the manufacturer's sites and see what there is to offer. 

Greg


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

If buying a new system I would not go with MTS either. Look at Piko for a 5 AMP system, they are made by Massoth. For about the same price consider NCE PH 10R. This a wireless 10 AMP system. A great thing about DCC you will be free to choose any brand of DCC decoder.


----------



## DanteHicks79 (Jun 19, 2013)

Awesome! Thank you both for the input. I will definitely check out some other DCC options and see what will work best.


----------



## DanteHicks79 (Jun 19, 2013)

An additional question - would other manufacturer's DCC systems be able to control LGB switches? 

Thanks!


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

LGB switches don't usually come with DCC decoders... so you again have a choice of decoders to run your switch machines... I often use the Digitrax DS-64, does 4 switch machines.... these are called "accessory decoders" or "stationary decoders". 

Greg


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

If you have one switch in a area the single channel ones from LGB, Massoth, and Piko are pretty neat. A four channel one would be more economical if running the wire is not a problem.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Original poster asked about which MTS version and I would answer that none are what is needed for the latest decoders available from all the manufacturers. And MTS I does not do switches!! 

Speed is controlled in DCC by speed steps in the decoder and MTS only uses 14 steps. This means that 20 volts has only 14 speed settings!!!! 

The latest decoders have 128 speed steps and some allow half voltage for better low speed control (read make an engine crawl at 1 foot a minute). 
MTS will not allow this even with the latest system running via the Massoth navigator. 28 speed steps at best and it must be the MTS III only!!! 

Any DCC decoder will work on other manufacturer systems. 

And if converting the 2018 to DCC, the motor block needs to be converted to 4 wire as one side of the motor is hardwired to one rail. DCC needs motor isolated from the rail. 
Go to the Power and sound section of this forum for mote info, esp the DCC section.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Before you jump into DCC, try to make contact with a local GARDEN RAILWAY club. Some members are bound to use DCC. Talk to them and learn the pros and cons of the various systems. Make sure you get something that will meet your present and future needs. Where do you live? Let us know that and someone here on MLS I'm sure will know some local contacts.

Chuck 

Note added. Since you are going to be outdoors, remote controlled switch motors work better in some (dryer climates) than in other parts (wet climates) especially if your track is going to be on the ground. Mud, dirt and bugs have a nasty habit of mucking up electric switch motors. I converted all of my switches to manual. Here in northern Virginia all of my LGB motors rusted and filled with all sorts of debris and insects. For a while I used the electric LGB switch motors in a manual mode. Over time they became more trouble that they were worth. 

John (aka Totalwrecker) has a very nice manual throw described in the following thread.

simple manual throw 

My recommendation would be to use manual throws where you can easily get to them and electric in the more remote parts of the layout.


----------



## DanteHicks79 (Jun 19, 2013)

I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, so we do get a mixture of wet and dry throughout the year. I'm still going back and forth on what I plan on using for ballast for my track as I research different options - and if I'm going to put down a concrete bed below the ballast or just dig a dirt trench for the ballast - but I do plan on not just setting the tracks on dirt and leaving them be. Originally I was planning on all electric switces on my layout for convenience and ease of line operation, but it sounds like I may want to steer towards manual instead, since we do get rain, dew, and such. Plus side - the manual switches tend to cost way cheaper! 

What tends to gum up worse on the electric switches? The motors inside the little case, or the actual throws themselves? If the motors are inside the housing, would sealing them up with o-rings and gaskets help to prevent the motors from succumbing to the elements, or is it pretty much a lost cause due to the way they are designed/function? 

There is the Bay Area Garden Railroad Society (BAGRS), which I plan on eventually joining. I'll add to my list of questions for their other members if they have had better experience with manual switches over electric ones in this climate. At the moment, the biggest issue with getting going on everything is cost - and that includes memberships to any groups or clubs for the time being. A situation some other enthusiasts are probably more than familiar with, I'm looking at having to little things over a stretch of time and building up towards what I eventually have in mind as far as my railroad goes. 

(one of those little things is that since I will be running powered brass track outdoors, I'm gonna put a sample piece of my track outdoors to see how fast it corrodes in our climate and to get an idea of how much cleaning will be involved - I already know that most battery advocates will tell me: "Too much!") 

Primarily my reasons for wanting DCC was to be able to run multiple trains at once - otherwise, I would probably stick with just my controller/transformer and only run one set at a time. I've only used DCC in passing on other layouts, and have recently begun asking questions and trying to get some feelers out for what route I should take. Cost, convenience, hassle, are all things I'm trying to evaluate and gauge (pun intended). I do like the idea of being able to remotely trigger stuff like bells, whistle blasts, and switches from one location, but I'm also wary of getting into a situation where I hafta drop thousands of dollars just to get stuff to even run properly, and dealing with any additonal failures that a DCC system might introduce.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

In the LGB switch motors there is an iron piece that is part of the motor. That rusts and interferes with the rotation of the motor. You live near the ocean. There is salt that gets mixed up in the rain. Ocean spray gets carried up into the rain by the winds. That will add to the rusting. 


My switches are on ballast. 

You cannot seal the switch motor. The arm that has to move in and out to throw the switch must be free to move, no way to seal that. If you want to have remote control for your switches, try pneumatic throws. 


Chuck

I just took apart one of my LGB switch motors. This is a picture of the parts after removing the ants (some carrying eggs) and mud. The metal arm in the motor (bottom) is supposed to be bright and shinny.

This is why I went to manual.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

"Primarily my reasons for wanting DCC was to be able to run multiple trains at once - otherwise, I would probably stick with just my controller/transformer and only run one set at a time. I've only used DCC in passing on other layouts, and have recently begun asking questions and trying to get some feelers out for what route I should take. Cost, convenience, hassle, are all things I'm trying to evaluate and gauge (pun intended). I do like the idea of being able to remotely trigger stuff like bells, whistle blasts, and switches from one location, but I'm also wary of getting into a situation where I hafta drop thousands of dollars just to get stuff to even run properly, and dealing with any additonal failures that a DCC system might introduce." 

1. Read my site on track and switch machines and DCC... 

2. It costs more than straight DC, but less than battery once you get over 4-6 locos. 

3. In terms of remote control and features, nothing else comes close. The amount of different equipment you can buy is unmatched. 

4. Done right, less maintenance and hassle than ordinary track power. 

Irregardless of scale, it's the most used remote control system. It's still somewhat in it's "growing" period in large scale, but mostly it's misinformation that holds many people back. 

The track does not need to be ultra clean, it works fine outdoors, it's not more expensive than battery power, etc. 

A lot of what you will hear is people parroting 10 year old information, when there were very few systems, very few decoders for large scale. 

Greg


----------

