# LGB DCC installation



## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Hello everyone. I have an LGB christmas starter set that I purchased a few years back and I would like to add DCC. Can someone please tell me what Decoder and Controller system I can purchase that is the easiest to install?

Many THanks


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

What set? There were many Christmas sets offered in the past. Toytrain sets, Chloe engine, Various steam engines. 

You can usually find a number on the bottom of the LGB engine and this will tell us how we can best help you.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

They all require the same thing. You need to isolate the motor from power, and isolate the track power power leads. Typically on most locos you have two wires coming from the motor, and two wires (eventually) coming from track power. LGB is annoying because they often have have one leg of the track power and the motor lead connected, so you see three wires instead of four. That has to be undone

Typically when you take the LGB starter set locos apart you find three or four pins sticking up out of the top of the motor block. If it's four you need to figure out which are power and which are motor, and then you're in pretty good shape. Just follow them, cut them, and then wire them to whatever decode you choose

If it's three pins you have to take the motor block apart and do a bunch of fiddling. George Schreyer has a descritption here that's excellent


wiring a 2017 for DCC 


Or here--this is maybe better 


It's not rocket science, and I've done it three times now, but I never enjoyed it. I'm a big fan of plug and play sockets


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

You can use most any brand of decoder, NCE, Massoth, Digitrax, LGB or one of the many others. The installation would be about the same for any of them. Like already stated 2 wires direct from the rail, 2 wires direct to the motor, and a pair to the head light. More thought would go to choosing a system to run. Check the DCC forum for much information. I agree it would be good to visit others using DCC to see what you may or may not like.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

All of my LGB and USA motor blocks have the same wiring layout, nothing to figure out. 

The outer pins are the motor, the inner pins are track power.


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks Guys. I also have a sound speaker that is triggered by magnets on the rail. WIll the DCC decoders your recommended still be able to control that or will I have to add a sound board? Also, if you guys can make a specific recommendation on the actual decoders (part number, link to puchase, etc..); I would really appreciate it.

Again, thanks to everyone.


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Also, to answer a previous question, this is the only link I can find that shows that actual model that i have. It was purchased 2 years ago brand new. I believe it was the last Christmas Starter set manufactured. The model number is *70325 Christmas Passenger Starter Set* 


http://www.buy.com/prod/lgb-christmas-passenger-train-starter-set/q/loc/20269/202102687.html 

Thanks


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Another Image:

http://www.railwayhouse.com.au/products/sets/sets%20g/G%20LGB%2070325%20Christmas.jpg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

That Loco should be Direct Decoder Ready, by indicated by a sticker on the bottom. That would have to be a LGB or Massoth decoder to be plug and play, others would require wiring. The Massoth # is 8154001. As far as the sound it would depend on what it is. It may or may not be DCC compatible. If it is DCC it could be triggered by the remote or track magnets.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Dan: You must be dealing with newer LGB motor blocks only. The older ones have only 3 wires exiting the motor block, this requires isolating one lead from the motor and the rail pick up. This is an additional pain.


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks guys! One last question. Can you please recommend a basic DCC system to go along with this? I don't want to spend too much money, just something basic.

Thanks again.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

My two favorite systems are Massoth and NCE. But neither of them are basic, both are very nice systems. Some one else will have to come in with something that would run less money.


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

I believe that is a very similar loco to one that I installed DCC into just today.

see http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips10/lgb_22232_040_tips.html

also see http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips5/dcc_tips.html for a long winded narrative about DCC


I use the Digitrax Super Chief system, it is not basic either but it has walkaround radio control for $600 but you have to BYO power supply.

- gws


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Can I use any power supply? I have a 10amp power supply (generic)


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Also, can anyone send me somethig for


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2008)

Most DCC systems will operate on AC or DC. For large scale, 18 VAC is adequate, you'll get up to 22 volts on the rails. A DC power supply needs to be higher voltage, 22 to 26 volts will be fine.

What is MOST important is that the power supply can source the current needed by the command station or booster. If the power supply current limits before the booster does, the booster cannot properly detect and respond to a track short.

For an AC supply, it needs to be rated at about 1.4x higher than the booster rating. A DC supply needs to be rated the same or higher than the booster rating.


- gws


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

BTW, The power supply I have is a "Control Master 20".


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## Guest (Nov 10, 2008)

Don't know what that is, but if it is a model train power pack, just turn it all the way up.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't say that to a guy with a Bridgewerks! 

Regards, Greg


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

LOL. Any recommendations on a less expensive DCC system that would be compatible with the Massoth decoder (the one recommended above)? Something with a knob for throttle would be nice. I researched a few brands but I'm not sure on the compatibility. Do you guys know if these would work with my loco, power supply and decoder? 

http://www.lenz.com/products/sets/index.htm ($300) 
http://www.digitrax.com/prd_zep_basic_set.php (


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

the zepher will work just fine i have one on my bench to test with but you need to know it is onlt 14 volts so you will not see full speed .........


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes the Lenz and the Digitrax systems will operate the Massoth decoder.


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Hello again. So I purchased a Super Chief 8am starter set and the Massoth L "plug and play" decoder recommended earlier on this post. I dissasembled the loco last night and I am really scared now. Brakeman posted a photo of the board on his loco that is identical to the one that I have. A picture of it is located here http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips10/081104_girr_lgb_040_loco_pwb_5945.jpg 

I have a few questions:

1- There are several pins that come up from the board and the massoth instructions are not clear on what goes where. Can someone tell me what color wire goes on which plug and whether or not I have to flip any of the dip switches (there are 4 of them). There are 4 wires coming out of the decoder but there are many more plugs (none of them labeled) on the board attached to the loco.

2- After I connect the decoder, where does it go? Do I just rest it on top of the existing board or do I need to tape it somewhere? I'm scared it will be hanging loose inside the loco and I'd like to try and avoid that.

Thanks again for all your help. I'm almost there but completely stuck now.

Regards


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

The Massoth decoder should just plug directly into the board. The pins on the decoder should engage the sockets on the board. There is a white rectangle printed on the board which should be the outline of the decoder.


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

I believe that once you install the decoder, you flip all 4 switches.

I did not because I didn't do the kind of install that LGB was expecting


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Got it. I called massoth and they just confirmed this. The decoder just plugs right on top of the Loco Board. The 4 loose wires were throwing me off!

THANKS!!!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes the four dip switches need to be turned off. Later RJD


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

ah, the extra wires, you need to clip them


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Ok, now I'm having a problem connecting my digitrax super chief. As soon as I connect the Rail A/B cables to the track, the system senses a short and the track status light turns off. It's fine when the loco is off of the track, but as soon as I place the loco on the track, the track status light turns off. HELP! the gentleman at Massoth told me to program CV49 to 11 but I can't even do that as I can't place the loco on the track without causing a short....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Disconnect all the wires to your decoder. Unplug the decoder. Put the loco on the track and see if you still have the short. This will start you on the path. I suspect you did not turn off all the switches or one of the wires is to the wrong thing. 

Just for grins, does your decoder have a 6 pin plug that plugs into the loco board, and 4 more wires that plug onto the board? (I'll bet those wires are where your problem is). 

Regards, Greg


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Yes sir. It's a massoth decoder with 4 loose wires. SHould I cut those? the decoder is already plugged into the loco board. thanks


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

I cut the wires and it worked! but now the front headlight doesn't turn on. Let me keep digging. THANKS AGAIN!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Probably because the decoder is set for 14 speed steps, and you are trying to run it at 28/128. 

Set CV 29 for 28 ss.... you need to read up on CV 29 carefully, it controls several things... 

Regards, Greg


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

ok, i just figured out why.. I can't program the decoder! I have a Super Chief 8am set. I move the track wires to Prog a/b enter programming mode enter my CV value and hit display. I get a "???" error which means the read was unsuccessful. I've tried all the different programming types (Ph, Pd, Pg, Po) and I can't program or read the values. When I try and program the decoder I get a "NoPg" error which means the programming attempt was unsuccessful. The gentleman at Massoth told me the first thing I need to do is program CV49 to "11". That's probably why the lights don't work. But again, I can't program the decoder. Please Help... THanks.


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Disregard. I was able to program the decoder once I moved the switch on the back of the LGB loco all the way to the Left... Doesn't say anywhere I was supposed to do that but oh well, it worked. Now back to figuring out how to make thel lights work. 

The is hardly "Plug and Play"! lol....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You meant CV 29 to 11 right? not CV 49? Just checking, I'm documenting all of these LGB "gotchas". 

What did that switch control? the sound? 

Regards, Greg


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

I have CV29 set o 0 and CV49 set to 11. Maybe that's the problem. The gentleman at massoth has a German accent and I may of misunderstood. As soon as I figure out, I'll post. Seperate question; I'm not seeing the speed on the loco that I used to when I was running analog. I have a control master 20 available, but I'm using the digitrax 5amp power supply that came bundled with my 8am super chief set. Is it possible I'm not getting enough power? Or is there a way to increase my power output? I tried hooking up the control master 20 to the DCS200 and it went nuts. The passenger cars that draw power from the track are always dimmed. Any ideas?


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## Guest (Nov 23, 2008)

to program a decoder on the programming track, all static loads must be removed, throwing the backhead switch does that. You should probably find a 3' or so chunk of track and wire IT at the programming track. Then just set it aside when you are not using it.


You could have left the loco on the main and programmed it via OPS mode which is the easiest thing to do but it doesn't provide any feedback EXCEPT if the command was interpreted properly, the loco will jerk a little.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The emotion manual (XL) that I read said it will do everything on the main except change addresses.. 

I prefer programming on the main because it's more convenient, and it does not require switching off other loads, or sound systems, etc. 

Regards, Greg


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

Ok, everything works. Here are the CV values I had to change:

CV49 = 11
CV29 = 6
CV5 = 255


The last question I need help on is. Does anyone know if I can use the MRC Control Master 20 to power the Digitrax Superchief (specifically dcs-200).

Thanks


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, so CV49 is unique to each manufacturer, on this decoder, CV49 handles the parallel vs serial functions. This setting of 11 is to send the serial function commands out the F1 output, which usually makes an LGB sound system work. (many other decoders will pass the F1 commands through also). 

CV29 = 6 sets DC mode and also 28/128 step mode. (The decoder probably defaulted to 14 speed step mode, that's the old LGB standard) 

CV5 is your "top speed" which should already have been 255, for max top speed... this was probably just to be sure. 

The MRC is a controller, it says it has filtered and regulated DC output, max output is 20 volts DC, should be ok, but will run your trains a little bit slow. You would do better with a higher input voltage like 24 volts. No reason to get a whole throttle, just a power supply is what you need. 

Regards, Greg


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## mdelgado44 (Nov 7, 2008)

I have the 5 amp power supply that came with the Super chief. Is that giving me more output than the MRC? 

thanks


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2008)

if it's and AC supply, the max output voltage will be about the same as the AC in.

if it's a DC supply, the max output voltage will be 4 to 6 volts less that the DC in. 


In either case, if the booster is set for HO levels, it will be less, 14 to 16 volts.


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