# Piko



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi all! The sound kit (#36221 analog) arrived on Monday. The seller(blackforesthobby) waited for 9 days before they finally shipped it. In the interim, I was so impressed with the performance of the smoke unit in my Piko Camelback with it's nice, digital sound, I decided to order the factory smoke unit This was all going to be installed in my 0-6-0 Santa Fe #728 loco and tender. It was perfect as both Piko units arrived on the same day, so I was happy. Until I began to install the sound system...
I quickly found out that the entire #36221 doesn't fit inside the tender,as I had assumed. I found this out when I tried to place the speaker in the tender. It was way too small.Turns out the #36221 is installed in the locomotive, and it was designed primarily for their saddle tank locomotive , which does not have a tender. 

Ok. Fine. So, I watched the Piko installation video for this sound system. And , much to my surprise, the video shows that in order to install the Piko smoke unit, you also have to purchase their voltage regulator(confirmed by Piko service) for another $31.00,or so.
Now, here's the issue: Pikos' website lists the voltage regulatorI( I am editing this to add that ,in actuality the voltage regulator listed is for the board only on the #36221. The voltage regulator on the # 36220 is for the sound board and the smoke unit.) as being a part of both of their sound kits ! That's the #36220(digital),and the #36221 (analog). I checked out their website before I made my decisions of what to buy. Here's the direct link to the sound system page on their website:
G-Scale Power & Digital
I stopped what I was doing, as at that point I had only opened the little bag of screws, put everything back in the box, went to my Ebay account, and hit the refund button on the sound system and the smoke unit. Returns from both sellers are free, so I printed the labels, and sent them both back early Tuesday morning. I did think about calling Piko, and telling them about their website issue, and requesting that they send the "missing" voltage regulator to me at no extra charge, as it is specified that the part is included in both kits,which can also be possibly be considered as false advertising on their parts. I considered ,and discarded, other voltage regulator options.


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## signalguy (Jan 5, 2019)

The paper instructions for the 36220 show the smoke unit wired directly without another 5 volt regulator. The regulator is built into the sound circuit board. I do not have the wiring instructions for the 36221. I don't know if the video is correct. I would have asked Piko about the regulator. Did the paper wiring instructions for the 36221 show the 5 volt regulator? Some of the vendors know quite a bit about Piko. One supplier I would ask about the regulator, is Reindeer Pass. You didn't say if you are running DC or DCC.


Tom


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## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi,Tom. I didn't call Piko about the issue. I decided to return everything based on the video and instruction sheet. I would think that the 5 volt regulator is required for the Piko smoke generator as I could find no provision in the instructions for hooking it up to the #36221 sound board. Also, wouldn't Jonathan have shown in the video how to hook the smoke generator to the #36221, if it could be done? I watched several of his videos,and he seems to be extremely competent,and through, at what he does for Piko. I'm pretty certain that my decision to return everything was the correct one for me. 
In answer to your other question, I only run analog. DCC is too expensive for my tastes. I'd rather spend the money on fishing. 

Later!


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

I've installed numerous Piko sound units in LGB locomotives, both the DC and DC/DCC kits. And Piko makes both a 5 volt and 24 volt smoke unit just like LGB does. The 24 volt unit would work with the DC sound kit, no 5 volt regulator needed. 

It's water over the dam now, but Jonathan Meader, the head of the Piko of America Technical Department in San Diego is super helpful answering customer questions. I've emailed him numerous times for clarification of the specifications, etc, of the DC/DCC sound board, and he's been very responsive. The DC/DCC sound board has connections for using either a 5 volt smoke unit or the 24 volt smoke unit. But you'd need to replace the existing circuit board in your locomotive with the Piko DC/DCC sound board. But in your case, you want to install a sound board in your tender operating on the DC track power. In that case, the better quality and more money would be either using a Phoenix PB17 DC/DCC sound board, or the LGB 65001 Steam Sound Board (which may be too large for your tender......similar size to the Piko DC Sound board).

Okay, I see your reply, you're not going to pursue installing any sound unit in your locomotive. There are many hobbyists on this forum that can advise you of technical issues, much more knowledgeable than most of the online stores folks.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I just came back from three weeks vacation and I'm trying to catch up on my G-scale reading of various forums and discussion groups.


Reading this thread I can only shake my head in disbelief.
As I understand it, a Piko kit was ordered with the expectation that it included a voltage regulator per the description on the Piko website.
Kit arrived without a voltage regulator.


Wouldn't the normal thing be to contact either the seller or Piko directly to inquire about that rather than create a thread on mls?
The thread on mls does nothing to resolve the issue (if there is one); a simple call or email to Piko or the seller would have clarified things.
I have contacted Jonathan at Piko America a few times in the past to get some questions answered, and Jonathan is by far the most responsive individual of any G-Scale manufacturer I have dealt with. He always got back to me within a day or two if I sent an email.

If there is an issue with either a part missing or incorrect information on the Piko website, I know that he would have things right.


BTW - looking at both descriptions of the Piko 36220 and 36221 on the website and the associated videos, it's pretty obvious that the website description is simply a copy and paste error.
The way I see it, the digital sound decoder 36220 has a built-in regulator on-board required for the circuitry on that board - that regulator can be used to drive a smoke unit if desired; the 36221 analog sound board does not have a regulator on-board since it's not required for it's circuitry, so if a 5 volt smoke unit is added an external regulator is required.
No question that there is an error on the web page, a call or email to Piko would have confirmed that and also triggered a correction to the web page.


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## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi. When the description of any item that I'm buying lists a part as being included with the unit, I then (rightfully)expect it to be the way that it was described. Cut and paste is sloppy, and lazy work, and that's how mistakes can happen, causing confusion, and a bit of irritation, whenever and wherever they may occur. There is no excuse for sloppy work when it can adversely effect both the customer, and the companies reputation. This was a prime example of that. I have high expectations, as I read every item description thoroughly on many of the things that I buy to ensure that each item is the right product for my needs.In this case, it was miss listed on both Ebay, and the Piko America website. I deal with Dan in the service department. He's a great guy to talk to, and is very knowledgeable about what he services. I called and talked to him about this issue shortly after posting about it here. I called on a Friday, but he was too busy to answer my call until early on the following Monday,which was fine, as I wasn't in a hurry to get my question answered. He actually thought that the #36221 had the voltage regulator for the smoke unit built into the board on that unit. I directed him to the accompanying video (saddle tank loco install). He looked at the part of the video where Jonathan installs the smoke regulator,and was like"You're right. I didn't notice that before you brought it to my attention." He then apologized for the confusion that the website caused me, and we had a very nice conservation after that. He helped me to decide to go ahead and purchase the #36220(arriving today!) sound system ,and like Johnny Cash said in his song "A boy Named Sue", I came away with a different point of view on Piko. I still think that there could be more detail on their locomotives, but they're pretty decent for what you get for the money. I really love my new camelback! And their customer service makes Bachmann's customer service look darn terrible by comparison.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

I dabled into DCS a few years ago when I had purchased 4 MTH locomotives. I thought that since outdoor layouts canot be wired like indoor ones (IE: with cab control) the idea of digitaly controling my electric driven locos was an ideal solution. After a couple of years of working it out (bonding all my rails on a 50 meters long double track mainline, consulting Raymond Manley for help, and buying two power supply including at last a Bridgewerks 15 amps) and almost loosing my mind in the process (at least my wife though I did) it worked. But then I fried a couple of boards on an A B A lash up a couple of times. The first time I paid a repair by Rayman that cost me, with shipping, the price of the loco, the second I dismantled the DCS from the loco and soon after gave up on digital command. It is designed to make you spend money and drive you mad! The money I prefer spending on other things. Besides, I find that on long operating sessions the sound gets on my nerves. I guess it's OK with wizzards in electronics which I am not.
Think about it...


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

RkyGriz said:


> Hi. When the description of any item that I'm buying lists a part as being included with the unit, I then (rightfully)expect it to be the way that it was described. Cut and paste is sloppy, and lazy work, and that's how mistakes can happen, causing confusion, and a bit of irritation, whenever and wherever they may occur. There is no excuse for sloppy work when it can adversely effect both the customer, and the companies reputation. This was a prime example of that. I have high expectations, as I read every item description thoroughly on many of the things that I buy to ensure that each item is the right product for my needs.In this case, it was miss listed on both Ebay, and the Piko America website. I deal with Dan in the service department. He's a great guy to talk to, and is very knowledgeable about what he services. I called and talked to him about this issue shortly after posting about it here. I called on a Friday, but he was too busy to answer my call until early on the following Monday,which was fine, as I wasn't in a hurry to get my question answered. He actually thought that the #36221 had the voltage regulator for the smoke unit built into the board on that unit. I directed him to the accompanying video (saddle tank loco install). He looked at the part of the video where Jonathan installs the smoke regulator,and was like"You're right. I didn't notice that before you brought it to my attention." He then apologized for the confusion that the website caused me, and we had a very nice conservation after that. He helped me to decide to go ahead and purchase the #36220(arriving today!) sound system ,and like Johnny Cash said in his song "A boy Named Sue", I came away with a different point of view on Piko. I still think that there could be more detail on their locomotives, but they're pretty decent for what you get for the money. I really love my new camelback! And their customer service makes Bachmann's customer service look darn terrible by comparison.



I'm glad my post seems to have prompted you to post "the rest of the story".

Where it was left previously was that Piko dropped a couple of notches in your opinion, you accused them of false advertising and you never bothered to contact them about that issue.

As far as "cut and paste" is concerned - that was a possibility I mentioned that may have happened, I don't know if that is true or not, but you jump right on that as if you know that actually happened.

The point everyone has been trying to make is that simply contacting Piko would have resolved the issue and this thread would have been totally unnecessary. The issue was a simple mistake (people do make mistakes) and now that Dan knows about it, I'm sure Piko will correct their website as soon as practical.

BTW - it would help if you used paragraphs when posting - makes reading the posts much easier and prevents skipping information that may be important.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I use DCC and would not use the Bridgemaster as you can accidently connect to 38 volts on some supplies. Also the throttle if not limited can go to 38 volts on the track. A friend did this and smoked his LGB track cleaner.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

krs said:


> I just came back from three weeks vacation and I'm trying to catch up on my G-scale reading of various forums and discussion groups.
> 
> 
> Reading this thread I can only shake my head in disbelief.
> ...


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I've installed many of the Piko 36220 decoders into LGB locomotives and also a couple of the 36221 units. I've not tried to wire a smoke unit to the 36221 Analog unit but it appears to me not to require a 5 volt regulator. The Installation Instructions state: Switch for Smoke Unit (Optional) "A Switch, which can optionally control a smoke unit (Piko #36142 and #36143) is located on the control board." See the wiring digram below.......appears the smoker is just wired to the same control board as the volume control. Has anyone confirmed with Piko that a regulator is required for the smoke unit?
Tom


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## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> I've installed many of the Piko 36220 decoders into LGB locomotives and also a couple of the 36221 units. I've not tried to wire a smoke unit to the 36221 Analog unit but it appears to me not to require a 5 volt regulator. The Installation Instructions state: Switch for Smoke Unit (Optional) "A Switch, which can optionally control a smoke unit (Piko #36142 and #36143) is located on the control board." See the wiring digram below.......appears the smoker is just wired to the same control board as the volume control. Has anyone confirmed with Piko that a regulator is required for the smoke unit?
> Tom[/Q
> ...


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## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

krs said:


> I just came back from three weeks vacation and I'm trying to catch up on my G-scale reading of various forums and discussion groups.
> 
> 
> Reading this thread I can only shake my head in disbelief.
> ...


 Umm...A Copy and Paste error is exactly what you said. And I quote:


"BTW - looking at both descriptions of the Piko 36220 and 36221 on the website and the associated videos, it's pretty obvious that the website description is simply a copy and paste error."
Now, I didn't accuse them of false advertising. I implied it. Everything else posted about the #36221 is factual. Up to the point about the purpose of the voltage regulator.
They should either omit that part of the description, or clarify its' purpose so that people do not get confused like I did. 

Jonathan clearly shows that you should also install a Piko voltage regulator when installing a Piko 5v smoke unit. It is at the 11min.

second mark on this videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Lu9sJDn70


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

du-bousquetaire said:


> I dabled into DCS a few years ago when I had purchased 4 MTH locomotives. I thought that since outdoor layouts canot be wired like indoor ones (IE: with cab control) the idea of digitaly controling my electric driven locos was an ideal solution. After a couple of years of working it out (bonding all my rails on a 50 meters long double track mainline, consulting Raymond Manley for help, and buying two power supply including at last a Bridgewerks 15 amps) and almost loosing my mind in the process (at least my wife though I did) it worked. But then I fried a couple of boards on an A B A lash up a couple of times. The first time I paid a repair by Rayman that cost me, with shipping, the price of the loco, the second I dismantled the DCS from the loco and soon after gave up on digital command. It is designed to make you spend money and drive you mad! The money I prefer spending on other things. Besides, I find that on long operating sessions the sound gets on my nerves. I guess it's OK with wizzards in electronics which I am not.
> Think about it...


Let me help to provide the background and some context as to what all was going on and happened:

http://www.gscaletrainforum.com/ind...s-at-full-speed-after-a-short-circuit-occurs/

Issue had to do with severe shorts that were occurring on the du-bousquetaire's layout because of the home-made switches. Full write-up and diagnosis on exactly what all happened is at that link.


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