# LGB direct decoders



## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Hey all new here! I have a few engines with direct decoders. I wish to run full dcc with sound. Will the esu lok xl work? If so any harness to connect etc thanks in advance!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

What DCC system do you have, ratings???
I run LGB decoders 55020, 55021, 55027, onboard decoders on my Zimo system as well as the LGB MTS I and MTS II parallel with no problems.
My friend runs all these on the Massoth system.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A related question, I see that LGB can put a mark on the box for "Direct Decoder" but only mean the 10 pin socket is in there. Do they further mark that the decoder is actually included?

Greg


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

I'm running digitrax. One train at a time.


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Greg Elmassian said:


> A related question, I see that LGB can put a mark on the box for "Direct Decoder" but only mean the 10 pin socket is in there. Do they further mark that the decoder is actually included?
> 
> Greg


From my understanding it should have a decoder. My only question is if the lok sound is a 10 pin or do I need an adapter nobody can answer that simple question.lol


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You want to konw if the Loksound decoder is 10 pin?

Apparently the loksound XL comes in 2 versions, screw terminals, and with "pins", from the picture on their site, there are 3 rows of pins, parallel to 3 of the 4 sides of the decoder. Clearly not 10 pins. 

http://www.esu.eu/uploads/pics/title_LS_LokSound-XL-V4.jpg

See all the pins?

I think you need an adapter cable, at least from your 10 pin interface to the screw terminals on the XL... or there may be one that will go from the 10 pin interface to the various pins on the XL.

Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

dccforme said:


> Hey all new here! I have a few engines with direct decoders. I wish to run full dcc with sound. Will the esu lok xl work? If so any harness to connect etc thanks in advance!


I don't know what a esu lok xl is (my decoders are mostly LGB factory installed, LGB brand or Massoth - who made most of the LGB decoders).

Mahommed (Massoth dealer/importer) has a good explanation of the LGB decals on his website "All About LGB" here:

http://www.allaboutlgb.com/lgb decoder installation.html

It is pretty straight forward. Dan & TrainLi are another great source for LGB info.

This may be what you are looking for:

Massoth LGB® 10-pin DCC Decoder Interface cable
$9.90 plus shippingMassoth Interface Cable 8312062

In stock for immediate delivery
Please contact us to order

Product number: 8312062

It came with the last Massoth XL decoders I bought from Mahommed

Happy LGBing,

Jerry McColgan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The picture of an esu xl is in my post.

The information about what "direct decoder" means is from Mohammed's web site.

From his web site, you need a cable, which may be included:

The eMOTION XL decoder comes with an LGB® DCC interface cable to simplify installation in locomotives equipped with an LGB® DCC interface. An optional interface cable to simplify installation in locomotives equipped with LGB® six-pin decoder interface is available (product # 8312061).

Greg


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Awesome thanks guys. So with the decoder jumper I should be able to connect to my decoder slot to a esu?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Appears so... go to Mohammed's site under decoders and it shows the various markings and what interfaces they represent.

Greg


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Awesome thanks!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

THe LGB direct decoder was for the LGB 55027 which had a cable with a female socket that plugged into pins on the DC board which had a small etched circuit board for a removable jumper.
Older engines had a set of pins lined up for the LGB 55020/55021 decoders.
SO, LGB had their own non standard standards!!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't know about your brand of decoder I don't even know much about the rest of the Massoth line but if you download the instructions for the Massoth XL it will at least help you identify the pins of the 10 pin LGB DCC interface. Your decoder manual will then probably tell you what to do with those wires (you may already have this information).

http://www.massoth.com/dlbereich/datei.php?id=391

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> THe LGB direct decoder was for the LGB 55027 which had a cable with a female socket that plugged into pins on the DC board which had a small etched circuit board for a removable jumper.
> Older engines had a set of pins lined up for the LGB 55020/55021 decoders.
> SO, LGB had their own non standard standards!!


Hi Dan, 

Non-standard standards?

Nah!

LGB WAS THE STANDARD - the others just followed the leader (LGB). 

Here we are, still following the leader. Unfortunately LGB was not always great at explaining and sharing those standards with the rest of the world.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan the 55027 has the same electrical interface as the 55020 and 55021 right?

(I know the differences in current capability, more functions, etc)

I'm just trying to determine the physical interface.

Thanks, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

dccforme said:


> I'm running digitrax. One train at a time.


You have triggered my curiosity. I have some DigiTrax DG583S decoders I would like to put in some old LGB locos without any interface and either without sound or with LGB Analog sound.

I would really like to know how you are mixing LGB and DigiTrax. You might like to start a topic about it or if you do not want to do that, perhaps you might send an email about it to me.

Thanks,

Jerry McColgan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The idea of DCC is that it is a standard, you can run decoders from any DCC system.

The MTS you have is crippled, so you may not be able to control all addresses, but the Digitrax decoders are normal, full function decoders. The problems you have are mostly in the limitations of your throttles, so the Digitrax will work fine.

So if you are running an MTS system that can only address 0-22 short, then you would need to use only those addresses for your locos. You also need controllers that have parallel functions

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The 55020 and 55021 have the same interface and plug into the older locos.
The 55027 has a plug that goes in the newer DC board.
The 55026 cable is only used with the 55020/55021.
The onboard decoders have the SUSI bus for the sound units.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, LGB as nyou know, set their own standard and many other companies (MRC, NCE for 2) followed the NMRA standard for all scales.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> Jerry, LGB as you know, set their own standard and many other companies (MRC, NCE for 2) followed the NMRA standard for all scales.


Hi Dan,

I was kidding. As you said, I knew LGB set their own standard which was/is different from the NMRA standard - even to the point of reversing the track polarity. By the same token LGB started with Serial and only later (with the Central Station II) offered a Parallel upgrade option (never offered for the original Lenz Central Station).

While MTS was/is a dumbed down DCC I actually LIKE the simplicity of it and I still intentionally keep it as the standard of my layouts. I still have and occasionally use a quantity of (serial only) Central Station I's for things like an inexpensive operating display of an LGB/Aster White Pass Mikado. Parallel Central Station II's & III's can power other layouts without sacrificing anything.

A 2 amp power supply powering a Central Station 1 connected to a couple of feet of track and controlled by a Serial Loco or Universal Remote using Serial Transmitters and Serial Receiver gives me an impressive digital quality Chuff, Bell and Whistle along with lights etc.

I could do nothing better with the WP or with my layouts even if I was dumb enough to spend hundreds or thousands of $$$ to replace or upgrade everything to some sort of NMRA standard.

I would never recommend that anyone today should start out with a new Serial system but it would be really dumb for me to consider buying anything (except perhaps inexpensive decoders) that was not 100% backward compatible with my LGB equipment - including Serial & Parallel and LGB 55045 and Massoth PC Module and DCC Programmer compatible.

For one thing I don't know what serial functions I might lose if I put a DG583S into an LGB 2119s etc. I am not thinking about but I have a few DG583S's left over from some old projects. If I recall correctly I used to program the DG583S's with the Central Stations II's and III's and Loco or Universal Remotes without any software.

I try to avoid telling anyone how to spend their money and I always ignore anyone trying to tell me how to spend my money.

You have been the exception - offering valuable information (not advice) with an appreciation for why I elect to do things my way.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry "dccforme" I somehow read Massoth instead of ESU when I said to contact Mohammed... he is Massoth.

For ESU, I had a hard time for support when I was calling back East, but I think someone here on the forum is a ESU dealer. 

So the XL comes with a cable that should plug in to your loco.

I want to check that your question was answered, since you are the OP.

Did you buy the decoder yet?

Somehow the thread has drifted into yet another thread about someone's particular LGB configuration.

Regards, Greg




dccforme said:


> Awesome thanks guys. So with the decoder jumper I should be able to connect to my decoder slot to a esu?


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

I actually ordered the ESU XL cards. Will see how this install gets along and I will share.lol. There is little to no info or support any where on the web. I feel like a pioneer lol. As for Digitrax thats what im using for power routed to JMRI. Here are some pictures of the direct decoders in the locos. Just waiting on the esu which if correct me if im wrong plugs right into these sockets? Or does it have to be hard wire???


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Heres a different one. Hard wire it??? LOL


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

dccforme said:


> Heres a different one. Hard wire it??? LOL


This one IS NOT the LGB DCC pin set. I'm not sure which non-LGB/Massoth decoders have the pins that plug into those sockets.

Sticker "3" indicates that an LGB® locomotive is DCC ready and equipped with a 10-pin direct decoder interface plug-and-play compatible with the LGB® 55021 decoder, the Massoth eMOTION L decoder, the Massoth eMOTION XL decoder, and the Massoth eMOTION XLS sound decoder

I will leave it to Dan to explain what you can do with it with your decoder. As he said: 

Older engines had a set of pins lined up for the LGB 55020/55021 decoders.

Dan?

Hint: I think 10 (maybe it was 12) gauge solid copper wire pushed into the sockets might be one option if your decoder does not have the matching pins but I defer to Dan's greater experience.

Also, I suspect that if you look at your LGB instructions they will say to slide all those red switches to the off position if you are installing a decoder.

Jerry


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Jerry McColgan said:


> dccforme said:
> 
> 
> > Heres a different one. Hard wire it??? LOL
> ...


Awesome! Thank You! You guys have been much help!


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

By the way the one is a 2 and the other is a 3


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

You are welcome. My skills are pretty much limited to the toys I play with.

Glad I and others could help.

Jerry

PS it would be nice (but not necessary) to have a 1st name to address.



dccforme said:


> Awesome! Thank You! You guys have been much help!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

dccforme said:


> By the way the one is a 2 and the other is a 3


So none are a 5 and the interface cable I suggested was the wrong one.

I said This may be what you are looking for:

I'm glad I said may be. 

Not my 1st or last wrong guess.

With the solid copper wire, I just cut pieces about 1" long & solder the decoder wires to the end of the solid copper wire then polish the solid wires before pushing them into the sockets (of course clean & tin the wire before soldering to it). I would not be surprised if Dan has a better way (I just do whatever happens to come to my mind that I can do with stuff I find around the house).

Good luck,

Jerry


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Thanks, I look forward to it. I will post pictures and im probably going to make a YouTube video that way its out there for some other poor lost dcc soul lol. Thanks again!
-Justin-


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Justin,

You may need these:

LGB/Lenz 55020 Decoder wiring information:










LGB 55021 decoder showing the wiring for the 6 pin 55026 LGB® MTS Decoder Interface Cable (equivalent cable available from Massoth as product # 8312061).








Jerry


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Jerry McColgan said:


> Hi Justin,
> 
> You may need these:
> 
> ...


Thanks Jerry!
So keep the current boards or take the current boards out and replace with a new one? I've converted tons of HO scale and find it unique that large scale has been so far behind in dcc correct me if im wrong.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The 55021 is the same as the 55020 for pin outs.
U+ is V+ for most of us,.
No SUSI bus for sound boards on 55020 or 55021.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

dccforme said:


> Thanks Jerry!
> So keep the current boards or take the current boards out and replace with a new one? I've converted tons of HO scale and find it unique that large scale has been so far behind in dcc correct me if im wrong.


Hi Justin,

My intent was just to show you how LGB/Lenz explained the 55020 wiring and how LGB explained the 55021 wiring. I don't know what your current boards are or what you should do with them. It has been years since I used this information for anything. I just collect and save as much information as I can find in case I might need it sometime in the future.

Also, when I look at this sort of non-photographic illustration I have to pause and be sure I understand which side is up.

At times I worked with LGB of America but mainly as a customer. They helped me (everyone) to understand what LGB did but not necessarily why LGB in Germany did what they did. I miss their expertise and skill. The LGB community (family) was a great source for mutual support that no longer exists as it once did.

*I and many others grew up in the hobby depending to a large extent on the vast amount of help provided by George Schreyer (George is my Hero). *George is not an LGB fan (I am) so I normally went to George's site for non-LGB help.

http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips.html

*I don't know how much George did with DCC but he has at least one page devoted to it *

http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips11/SPROG_tips.html

*I just noticed that George has some info on ESU:
*
http://girr.org/girr/tips/tips11/loksound_tips.html

When it comes to DCC I am still a novice and hope to remain one.

Dan is the guy who does this stuff for others. My skills are dated as I no longer try to keep up with new stuff unless I really have to.

Regards, 

Jerry

ps. I discovered that some published information is incorrect so don't always assume that just because something is published that you can trust it to be 100% correct. I'm not always 100% right either so even double check what I say in case I might have made a mistake.


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

For an update I went ahead and bought Masoth sound cards. Supposedly easy to install in LGB.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Justin,

If you bought your Massoth sound cards from Mahommed (All About LGB) you will find he will work with you until everything is working satisfactory. This is not to imply anything negative about any other Massoth dealers. I have just had a lot of positive recent experiences with Mohammed.

Jerry



dccforme said:


> For an update I went ahead and bought Masoth sound cards. Supposedly easy to install in LGB.


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

I bought one Massoth it will literally plug into one of my lgb locomotives! I bought a esu card to hard wire just for the experience. I will be buying the new ECO-400*by soundtraxx at $100 for full sound in either steam,electric or diesel how can you lose!? the ho scale decoders are $80 and are fantastic. -Justin-


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Max stall current is 4 amp on the ECO-400, but I did not see max decoder current spec.

FOR EXAMPLE, Zimo rates the MX695 at 6 amps total, so if no sound, lights, or smoke units, the motor can have 6 amps, OTHERWISE SUBTRACT POWER DRAWN BY ACCESSORIES AND WHAT IS LEFT IS FOR THE MOTOR/S.


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## dccforme (Jul 29, 2015)

Dan Pierce said:


> Max stall current is 4 amp on the ECO-400, but I did not see max decoder current spec.
> 
> FOR EXAMPLE, Zimo rates the MX695 at 6 amps total, so if no sound, lights, or smoke units, the motor can have 6 amps, OTHERWISE SUBTRACT POWER DRAWN BY ACCESSORIES AND WHAT IS LEFT IS FOR THE MOTOR/S.


Interesting. Its both a sound/motor decoder and they do state its for large scale. Maybe worth a try.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I will be interested to see if the Soundtraxx will perform at the rated current.

Greg


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