# Engine for my Bachmann passenger cars



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

I find myself amassing quite a collection of the Bachmann passenger cars. Particularly the Pennsylvania green and white ones. so the question is, what might be a good engine to use to pull these cars from a scale and power requirement...assuming I'm pulling 8-10 cars? I have a Bachmann "Annie" 4-6-0 that seems a little weak. I also have an Aristocraft "Rogers" but I think it's on the small side scale wise, and it also seems to struggle pulling a long train. My little LGB Stainz pulls the train with amazing gusto but has a traction problem and also doesn't look appropriate. Not real clear on this scale stuff but the LGB line seems to be closer to the Bachmann, but large lgb engines are a little pricey. I guess I'm looking for something that might replace the Bachmann Annie in the $300- $500 range. Not sure what a "Mogel" is but the ones I've seen, look to be appropriate?? yes??
D


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

The Bachmann 4-6-0 is larger than the LGB Mogul (which is a 2-6-0). If it seems a little under powered, a solution would be having it "upgraded" with a Barry's Big Trains engine block. The unit is bullet proof and _powerful!_ It will handle extra weight being added so that you can pull as many cars as you like! Give Barry's website a look-see and check out the video of a couple of Big Haulers _pulling nearly a hundred cars! _I actually have a 4-6-0 and a 2-8-0 conversion and both of them are excellent runners!


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## Greg Stevens (Jan 3, 2008)

I have to second what Steve told you. Go for the Barry's upgrade for your Annie. I have one of the Annie conversions done into a 2-8-0 and it is flawles as far as I am concerned. I also have two of his regular 4-6-0 conversions and they are heavy pullers. Check out Barrys site.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm going to suggest 2 things. 1. Consider the LGB mogul. 2. 5 passenger cars would probably be more prototypical of the car's era than 8, so maybe 2 trains and a long passing siding?


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Sailbode, Mik is right. Have a closer look at LGB Moguls. There were three Pennsylvania liveries produced, brown, green and black. Unfortunately, green and especially black are quite rare and tend to be expensive. But the brown (chocolate) version is easily available and in my opinion the best looking of all three. This is also my favourite Mogul livery. If the black one has sound, all three do, but brown has analogue while green (& black?) digital. The Mogul will pull a reasonably sized train and it is extremely durable. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Goodness. Except for the Chevy, my Annie pulls all the cars I own very handily.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

prototypically 8-10 cars would draw a Pacific or larger loco.... 4-6-2, 4-8-2 or a 4-8-4. Back then Passenger trains were run on schedule and extra horsepower would ensure On Time Arrival. 

John


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Sailbode, another option is the LGB Forney. These are quite powerful locomotives and there is a green Pennsylvania version. I believe it was sold in a handsome set with a brown caboose and a white reefer, with some track too, but have seen these sets without track and even the locomotive and cars offered for sale separately. Best, Zubi 
PS here is a youtube video featuring the Pennsy Forney http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg0tjks6FGQ&feature=related


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

extra horsepower would ensure On Time Arrival 
With 8-10 loaded passenger cars, a double-header might be called for. 

Sailbode, your coaches are shortened 1:22.5 scale models. There are lots of big, powerful locomotives available, such as the Bachmann 2-8-0 or even the K-27 (wait for the new version with a revised drivetrain,) but they are 1:20.3 and exact scale sized, so your coaches will look tiny behind them - maybe. You might like the effect though. 

A Barry's drive for your 4-6-0 would solve the problem too.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

'bode.. Jumping in with another 2 cents worth of chat. 

I pull 4 USA Sierra type passenger cars, 2 cattle cars and a box car (All lettered for C&S) with 2 LGB C&S Moguls. They're battery/REVOLUTION controlled and run off one battery pack in the tender of the lead locomotive. 

It makes a 9 unit passenger train and l'm very pleased with the way it runs and looks on the layout.

If you'd like to keep the Bachmann 4-6-0, I would agree with the above comments to have Barry convert it with one of his drives. You would only need one locomotive that way.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Currently, I have one LGB mogul, but I had two not all that long ago. These locomotives are well worth the price of admission, and there are a wide variety. 

They made a painted, undecorated mogul, 23191, which is somewhat harder to find now, but without the digital sound unit, the prices were genereally lower.

Here's a photo of both the LGB MOgul (2019S) and a Bachmann Plus 4-6-0 (gen 2 or 3) from 1995. Note the LGB mogul on the bridge is smaller than the Bachmann 4-6-0 (under the bridge). I am hauling LGB passenger cars with the bachmann and the Mogul's train is a bachmann boxcar but the rest of hte train is LGB. These cars all look 'about right' to me. 









Durability wise, the 4-6-0 is now out of service with stripped gears while the mogul continues to run very well, and is approaching 18 years old. 

Below is my now former New York Central LGB Mogul with 5 LGB cars (Baggage, Combine, Coach, Combine, Coach). This is one of the variations that LGB has done over the years to their moguls. This mogul had a digital sound system in it stock from LGB. This engine is now the prized posession of my cousin in London. He bought it from me for his kids last Christmas. I think I sent it with the snowplow installed. Originally, it had a wooden pilot. It was rescued from a bar in Bethel, CT! 










Another locomotive that would look good with your passenger cars is the Bachmann 4-4-0. While it is built to 1:20.3 scale, it fits very well with the 1:22.5 scale Bachmann passenger cars. 










Sorry, I don't have a photo with the 4-4-0 with coaches, but I know they exist. Seems like Kevin Strong posted on of his 4-4-0 in its Before state. My 4-4-0 is not only a great looking model (with working Stevenson Valve gear), but it is also an excellent puller. I have pulled up to 15 freight cars with this particular locomotive, and I have steep grades. Bachmann has not made it lettered for PRR, but that is fairly easily remedied.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the good input everybody. Not sure if my Annie is worth putting $250 in to upgrade the drive?? I like the LGB Forney and Mogul...might just wait for a "deal". On the other hand, a newer nicer Bachmann for an even better deal might come along but I must consider the expense of adding a decent sound system. I don't see myself running any more than 8 cars, so a Bachmann in good condition will probably do the job. I think mine is just a little tired.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Eight cars would have been a bit of a haul for a PRR narrow gauge train, but I think a few of the shots of the "last runs" in 1931 on the OR&W/PRR showed a long double header.... 

So you can buy another PRR Annie, and either it will pull them all, or will work with the other one to pull tem all...a win-win either way maybe?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have found that the LGB forney will pull as well as 2 LGB moguls. The other best pulling american engine is the 2 axle D&RGW #50 diesel (2063/20630), the original made in Europe.


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

you really can't go wrong with an lgb mogul. they are the smoothest quietest most reliable engines. mine have sat on shelves for 10 years and then go straight on to the track and start running, no lube or any other maintenance required. We've got 3 and there's at least two more I'd get if I could afford it. I've needed to double head them to pull an 8 car mixed pax train (1 lgb boxcar, one lgb combine, 5 lgb coaches, one bachmann obs), but that was only to get through one area of the layout thats both curvy and steep grade. I also have a Forney, and yes it will out pull a Mogul, although it might not look quiet right with that long of a train behind it. I can't speak for the BBT Bachmanns...never seen one in action. 

Another thought was LGB made a series of 0-4-0's based on their stainz european engine that had two motors, one in the tender and one in the locomotive. It was never lettered for Pennsy that I'm aware of, but that can of course be changed. I have the first one, 2017. Not sure what other models there were, but that little bugger can haul.

A final option (although not at all prototypical and again requiring relettering) is the aristocraft C-16. It is 1:24 scale but ours seemed to look allright with our cars, and again, it pulls at least a strong as the Moguls. Plus there's something inherently cool about watching a 4 axle steamer go.

A modification you can make to any LGB engine (and I'd assume a Bachmann) to increase pulling power is to add a tire to one of the axles. We've got that on one of our Moguls and it makes a big difference.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I have an LGB mogul for sale email me or see it run in vimmeo link below!! It has aftermarket sound system (quality) one already installed!! The Regal

[email protected] 

Your videos on Vimeo



also in the for sale in my "live" site under "for sale" in video on demand section 

Crazy Train Guy's Garden Railroad Channel - Mogulus Live Broadcast


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

'bode, 

I run a passenger consist of (1) boxcar (for batteries for the passenger car lighting), (1) combine, (3) coaches and (1) observation head ended with a Bachmann Bumble Bee 4-6-0, Gen 5 chasis (this makes a difference). The Gen 5 is the latest from Bachmann (and strongest) and will hold up the best of the Bachmann offerings. George Shhreyer's site http://www.girr.org/girr/index.html will tell you how to determine the chasis you have on your engine. 

Happy trains to you.... 

Bob C.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, what do you mean "loaded" ? Do you reall carry weight in your cars? I see Train World has the green LGB Forney with PRR lettering on sale with 2 cars for $330. I think that's looking like my best bet at this point. I don't believe it comes with sound but that can always be added. I'm also watching a 
Green Bachmann PRR 4-6-0 on E-bay that I willl go for if it doesn't get bid too high. 
 Thanks for all the input guys 
Don AKA "Bode" AKA "Sailbode"....and sometimes just "D"


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

*Now that I've figured out how to "show & tell", here is my PRR "liberty" train on my indoor "shelf" layout being pulled by my little LGB Stanz.*


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Bode, 

A few of my customers have suggested an upgrade to your Annie with one of my drives.

I am pleased that they feel they can do this.

But I must add a bit of the "sales pitch". First of all if you like the Annie, how it runs, looks, etc. Then consider what I have to offer.

Not only the 4-6-0 drive conversion, but two 2-8-0 drive conversions. I charge for the install on the 4-6-0, because you can do that if you are handy.

I do not charge for the 2-8-0 drives, because I don't have the instructions for these installation and they have become too complicated.

Importantly, I have been in business, producing drives for 16 years. Most of the drives are still running, as far as I know. Because I warrant the drives,

not the owner. If you find a drive for sale somewhere, it is still under warranty. Send it to me and I will bring it back to specs. You pay the shipping to me and I pay the shipping back to you.

I do not cover malicious damage, acts of God, or dumb mistakes, but ultimately I want the unit to run for you. just an aside, my charges are reasonable for the same reason, to keep it running.

It is a lifetime warranty, not as good a deal as it was 16 years ago (I'm older), but still as long as I last.

Any questions, email me or call: [email protected] or 623-936-6088, website www.barrysbigtrains.com


Barry - BBT


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

Hello Sailbode
I have been following some of your other questions and have even tossed in a couple of answers\opinions here an there and here is another 2 cents for ya. I saw the photo of your stainz pulling the string of passenger cars on your inside layout. The stainz is a great engine, powerful and dependable but you are right it doesn't look right with the american style bachmann cars. As for other pulling power I too was disapointed by the bachmann 4 6 0 that I got out of a set. I collected the matching baggage car and coach strung the 4 cars together and it was fine til it hit the incline on my outdoor layout. I still don't have anything that can pull the 4 cars up my near 3% grade and that includes a LGB 2 4 0 with factory sound and a LGB C&S Forney. I haven't tried the Bachmann Climax pulling a load yet but that really isn't the right engine either unless I run a rail fan special excursion. The Forney does have dual traction tires but it is still limited in it's pulling power on grades. Watch out for steep grades when you are building your new outdoor empire because an engine that will pull a string of cars well on a level surface will have trouble when grades and curves enter the equation. 
Just something to keep in mind.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

The answer to pulling power on grades is the same as on 1:1 railroads, _tractive effort._ It doesn't matter how good the motor is if there isn't enough weight in the engine and wheel slippage is a major problem! If you have traction tires that hold the rail but then allows the weight of the entire train to stall the motor you'll have real problems _very_ quickly! If you have a very heavy brass engine that just spins it's wheels when you try to pull anything but itself up a 4% grade you have a "shelf queen" and still don't have what you need! On the 1:1 roads there were strong pullers and........not so strong one's! Since rod engines weren't used very much on grades over 3% you may want to look at a Shay! My Bachmann Shay is my strongest puller for the same reasons that a Shay was a great engine on steep grades, it's geared low! Not much speed but _lots_ of power! 
Of course, if you are set on having a rod engine then the more drivers you can put on the rails the better! A Connie or a Mike each have eight drivers transmitting power. Moguls are fine but they only have six. Smaller engines are lighter than larger ones and the tractive effort will be correspondingly smaller. Plan for the future and not just for the present. Here endeth the sermon.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow Steve, not sure what to make of all that?? The stanz definetly has traction issues. The old Bachmann Annie just seems slow...especially in the curves. Thought my answer was an LGB Forney?? I'm wondering based on your comments if adding some lead weight to the loco my be an answer? 
D


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By sailbode on 15 Nov 2009 03:47 PM 
Wow Steve, not sure what to make of all that?? The stanz definetly has traction issues. The old Bachmann Annie just seems slow...especially in the curves. Thought my answer was an LGB Forney?? I'm wondering based on your comments if adding some lead weight to the loco my be an answer? 
D how steep of a grade are you expecting to have? Also, where are the turns in relation that grade? I've got one spot on my layout that keeps giving my Moguls fits; it's a climb that immediatelly follows a series of turns. Otherwise, the locos would be fine with a 9-10 consist. I've never tried using my LGB Forney on Pax duty before, but I'll give it a test run tomorrow with my standard train. Like Steve said, a 4 axle loco may be best worth thinking aboutl...I'll have an Aristo DSP&P C-16 for sale hopefully in a few weeks if you're interested.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Weight added to an engine is definitely part of the solution! However, it's not _all_ of it! It's very important not to load the engine down so much that the motor stalls on a grade! By this I mean that you can add weight to the locomotive so that it will pull 7, 8 even 9+ cars up a hill but if the weight of the train is too much for the motor you'll burn her up (I've been reliably informed that this is bad!) Some gearing is better than others though. Bachmann's Big Hauler had 5 different versions. The Annie and version 5 of the regular Big Hauler share the same gear box which isn't bad. The Connie is a strong puller but nearly all of it's motor mounts are loose upon receiving it from the factory! The K-27 had numerous but fixable problems and when done, make it a decent (if not exceptional) puller. It's main problem is that it's gearing is too high (twice what it should be!) 
As to the LGB Forney, it's a decent puller. In fact, it's a better puller than the LGB Mogul! For it's size it's a heavy engine which probably accounts for it's exceptional tractive effort. I had an early SR&RL #22 and it was a jewel! You can find them on ebay for a reasonable sum and I highly recommend them!


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## TJH (Dec 27, 2007)

can confirm what has been stated above: the Forney pulled my 8 car passenger consist (1 LGB box car, 1 LGB combine, 8 LGB coaches, 1 Bachmann obs) without trouble, including the one area on the layout (series of turns leading into a grade) that the Moguls can't even think about without a near full speed running start.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

"bode, 

Something else that will greatly affect the pulling power of the locomotive, is the drag of the cars you are pulling. I highly recommend making sure all your truck journal boxes are amply lubricated with a high quality lubricant. I have been using the White Lithium from the local auto parts store. Make sure it it PLASTIC COMPATIBLE!!!! 

My K-27 will pull a 19 car plus caboose train of mixed Bachmann and LGB on our club layout with a 1 1/2 - 2% grade. At about prototypical speed 15-20 smph she draws about 1.2 amps and is bone stock. Yes she slows some on the incline grade and yes she runs some on down grade, but then again so do the 1:1 railroads. For giggles and grins, one of these days I am going to keep adding one car at a time to see just how much she will pull. 

Happy Trains!! 

Bob C.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bode,

Looking at your railroad, there are a couple more thoughts that come to mind. The S curve you show may be something that causes difficulties using the Bachmann 4-4-0, Centennial 2-6-0 or 2-8-0. Looks like you are using 4' diameter curves and switches. That changes things a little bit for recommendations. The LGB Mogul and Bachmann 4-6-0 are your best bets for a locomotive with tender. I forgot all about the PRR Forney set that Trainworld advertises. (Be advised, the $330 price is for the loco and two cars. LGB sold that as a starter set including track and I seem to recall seeing prices in the mid $600 range). That is a nice little set and you'll get a reefer and another coach for your train. I've always liked those forneys, but never owned one. The Hartland 4-4-0 is another possible choice, and they did make one in a dark green. Nicholad Smith Trains in Broomall used to have one on display, but I don't know if it is still there or not.

Mark


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sail, 
I own the HLW 4-4-0 and she races around my outdoor layout with 2 express reefers and 2 Sierra Passenger cars and my 2.5% grades don't faze her. The cars have metal wheels in plain bearings and some squeak, which tells me there will be no problem adding the Obs. once it's ready to hit the rails, if I lube all around. 10'd curves and all wide r switches. 

Only problem for you is she's 1:24 and maybe too small with your cars. 

One thought to bear in mind larger prototype engines were made to handle longer trains.... 

John


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Took the plunge and ordered a new Bachmann Annie 4-6-0. Hopefully it will have a little more power than the old one I have.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Here she is guys! If you like green....and I do she sure is pretty! Can't wait to convert to battery so I can run the train on my buddies 1000 foot layout! 
Pulls fine on the flat shelf even through the turns. We'll see what she does outside asap.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

You'll like that engine.


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## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Now I just have to decide which sound system upgrade to install. I might save up all my pennies and go for the Phoenix!


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