# [Beginner] 55 Ton Shay 3 Truck - FAQs ???



## poikadoom (Oct 24, 2012)

Firstly I would apologize to anybody who got offended when I revived a new thread.So now that I'm a newbie, I'm planning to order a 55 Ton Shay from Bachmann.However except from few terminologies , and starter knowledge, I never had any hands on experience in model rail as a hobbyist.So here are my questions :

(a) The first question is that my model is fitted with DCC sound.Now if I want to run this locomotive in Analog (DC), will the sound work ?

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=1882 

(b) The second question is about power.I'm considering ANALOG (DC) to source my locomotive . What all stuff do I need to buy for an analog system ? A transformer , a throttle and wires connecting throttle to tracks.Am I missing something ?

Also this product http://r.ebay.com/v2EmXB - is it a throttle + transformer pack ?

And what do you suggest me on powering my locomotive ?

(c) What flatcars do you suggest in 1:20.3 scale. Here I'm looking for flatcars which can carry 4 lbs load on the flatbed.Do you think flatcars can carry that much load ?

PS: Please help me with the power section.I know I need a power system of upto 5 Amps , however I'm unaware of DC voltages that my 55 ton 3 truck Shay can handle.Also is DCC installation to much of a hassle for a newbie with ZERO EXPERIENCE ?


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Dear "poikadoom", interesting handle....anyway, I apologize if I was one that "jumped on you" before. My mistake. I won't go after your first question (a), since my Marklin HO trains in DCC would be AC and therefore wouldn't help much. (b) Back to G-scale...as far as power goes, normally you are seeing folks running transformer (like Bridgewerk or MRC or other equipment, other than the start set transformer) in the 5-10 amp range, but the draw from the individual engine (often worked in voltage and amps) is easily handled by 10-22 volts and maybe 1.5 amps for a single Shay. Often, with trackpower, the need for more amps is dictated by running more than one engine on the single main line. I'm assuming (I know that can be bad), that you are basing the 5 amps because you want to run multiple engines or have some option (like smoke) drawing the increase? You can check with a variety of retailers (like Reindeer Pass Railroad) and they can help you size your power requrements for your layout. Other drains on power will be the amount of track you are powering at one time.... I saw a couple of suggestions under the Rolling Stock forum that talks to logging cars. You specifically mention flatcars. I'm sure that an individual car could handle the compression load of 4 lbs, but the real issue is going to be the hauling capacity of the Bachmann three truck Shay.... You get some responses will be based upon grade changes (1-3% for example) range, metal wheels (with or without ball bearings) and other items you might add to your train. I've seen posts and several pictures showing log trains of 6-7 car loads..often real wood, but I doubt that they individually weigh 4 lbs. Maybe individual lumber load, car and metal wheel set combined would be 4 lbs. Good luck with your endeaver. Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

(a) yes, the unit comes configured to work in analog and DCC... the sound will function. This decoder is a special version of the SoundTraxx Tsunami, so you might download that manual. MOST stuff works the same. 

(b) remember that the shay, being a geared loco, runs slow, both the model and the prototype. Get at least 22 volts, and 24 to 27 is better. I owned a Bachmann shay and it was really happy with the MRC power G, which goes up to about 27 volts and has 10 amp capability. The 10 amps is more than you need for the single loco, but if you run more than one train, or lighted cars it would be a good idea. 

The DCC installation will be zero problems for you since it's already installed. I doubt if you will ever need to configure it differently for your analog DC operation. 

Greg


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## poikadoom (Oct 24, 2012)

Thanks a ton for your reply Flagstaff.Well my tracks would be laid on flat table (which technically means 0% track grade , I hope).So there won't be any slopes.Considering that I was hoping that Shay could pull atleast 8lbs.However I was concerned about the flat cars , since most of them are made of plastic.Andy metal / wooden flat car recommendations ?


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## poikadoom (Oct 24, 2012)

Whoa.You solved much of my technical queries Greg.I was exactly looking for a slow running locomotive.Hey is there any cheaper alternative to MRC power G ?

_"The DCC installation will be zero problems for you since it's already installed"_

So considering this statement , what all do I need incase if I'm running this locomotive using DCC ? I thought it was "DCC Ready" , i.e. I still need to buy a DCC decoder for this.Is that so ?
If I just buy tracks and the locomotive , then what do you think I might need to make the locomotive run via DCC (I have read stuff about DCC , but since I have no hands on experience on model rail roading , it's very difficult for me to build a DCC system based on theoretical reading , and hence the question..)?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, there might be, unfortunately getting a good 5 amp unit with "g scale" voltage is not too common. 

It is already not only DCC ready (which normally means it is easy to ADD a DCC decoder), but you indicated it was ALREADY fitted with DCC... 

The DCC unit in it automatically switches between DC mode and DCC mode... no effort on your part. 

But to run DCC, you need a DCC system. 

Maybe you want to read up on what it takes, but basically it's a power supply (which can often be your original DC transformer), a command station (the "brains" that creates the DCC commands), a "booster" (which "boosts" the DCC command to full track voltage), and some sort of hand held throttle, often wireless. 

I have some stuff on DCC on my site you might want to read... 

*http://www.elmassian.com/trains/dcc...ronics/dcc*

There is also an entire section on Beginner FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)... the menu is on the left side of the screen.

There are also several other sites that have a lot of information, but google "DCC basics" and you will probably find them.

Regards, Greg


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I purchased a MRC G and like it very much. 

Check Ebay for reasonably priced units. 

Right now there is one listed with 1 bid of $99.00 http://www.ebay.com/itm/MRC-Power-G...463930?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item337d1e35ba 

New units have recently sold on ebay for $180.00


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have measured the tractive effort for most of my engines, I do not have the three truck shay, but most engines have an average pulling power (when wheels start to slip) that is about 1/3 the weight of the engine. Since you are running on the level, the weight of the load on the cars is less of a problem than if you have grades. Your Shay should be able to easily pull 5 or more cars with a 4 pound load as long as the wheels roll freely.

I agree with the others, don't skimp on your power supply. Get the highest amp and minimum (22v) that you can afford. It is better to buy one good powerful unit than a minimal one for now and then have to get another later when you have cars with lights and engines with more motors. 

My Bachmann Climax weights 7.3 pounds and has a pulling power of 2.25 pounds. In this case it is about 31% of the engine weight. 

Chuck


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

You might also want to remember that with Chuck's example, that 2.25 pounds of pull is a rolling horizontal force and not the gravity load of four pounds per car. Several posts have shown some rather elaborate cars designed to measure the "pulling" strength of their locomotives...great knowledge if you don't want to strip gears of over stress the can motor. Since you are "inside" at this point and probably don't have a huge amount of space, then engines pulling 4-6 cars would probably not be a problem, but also look good on your layout. I also agree that you don't want to end up buying more power control units, so purchasing something in the 5-10 amp range would be beneficial in the long run. Besides, you can run track power without digital command and control (DCC) for some time...then when you can afford to do so, you can add the decoders and transmittal equipment. Several folks have told me that you don't get into G-scale or large scale trains if you think it will be cheap....everything from wheel sets, to rolling stock and track is expensive...but if you find a local club or group, you may find lots of folks that are willing to help you minimize your mistakes (thus saving you some money).


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## poikadoom (Oct 24, 2012)

Read your article Greg about DCC.Must say, it is much easier to understand.So what DCC kits do you suggest ?

I was considering buying DCC solely for one reason : wireless control.

I have come across this DCC kit from a manufacturer called Prodigy - http://r.ebay.com/jQvBYL

It says that it can handle a maximum of 3.5 Amps , do you think that's enough (because you recommended me a 10 amp MRC analog controller and that you insisted in your article that it's better to get a high rating power controller rather than a starter kit) ? 

And one question about the decoder , the Bachmann' 55 Ton 3 Truck Shay just has a Sound Decoder (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/products.php?act=viewProd&productId=1882 ) , so what about the decoder for controlling the motors ? 

Also what decoder do you recommend to be compatible with the above DCC kit ? And do you have any DCC kit and decoder recommendations , keeping in mind that that my layout involves usage of just one locomotive ?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

About the 4 pound loads. I would put ball bearing wheels on those cars to make going around curves less of a drag. Solid axles would create a bigger load as one wheel on each axle has to slip on the curve. This creates wheel wear, track wear and a bigger load on the engine. One car may not matter much, but 3 or more would.


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## poikadoom (Oct 24, 2012)

Alright.Now this is confusing .The Bachmann Website says it is "DCC-Sound equipped".Does this mean that I have to buy a seperate decoder for controlling the motor ? 

And what decoder in factory installed (I know it is a Tsunami Decoder but there is no manual , forget that I couldn't even find a manual for the 55 Ton 3 Truck Shay)


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## poikadoom (Oct 24, 2012)

4 pounds is good !

So do you own a Bachmann 55 Ton 3 truck Shay ? What's the D.C voltage that you operate it on ? Is 18v sufficient (Don't mind if the train is slow)?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I thought I replied to this on another thread or another forum or both. 

If it has sound already, then it has a regular DCC decoder, made by SoundTraxx, that is an OEM version of the SoundTraxx Tsunami. 

greg


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Bachmann - DCC Sound-Equipped Locomotives - Quick Start Guide[/b]

Bachmann - SoundTraxx OEM DCC Decoders[/b]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Steve, in reading this over, it seems that some Bachmann products come with the DCC motor decoder and not with the sound. 

Also, as of 2011, the sound part plugs into the motor decoder. 

But, what I get from this is that if you have sound, then defacto, you have a motor decoder also, since the sound unit must plug into the motor decoder. 

Earlier shays had the all in one board. 

Do you agree? 

Greg


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

Since I have never owned either version I really can't say that what you've stated is true, but from the documentation it sounds plausible. I do remember that there was a great deal of "Ask SoundTraxx - Ask Bachmann" between the two when the product was introduced.







In this case I just dug up the documentation that poikadoom said he couldn't locate.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, the original one was an OEM version of the Tsunami, but was sold to Bachmann (cheaply) on the agreement that Bachmann support it. Apparently Bachmann was not prepared to support it, and their support people would give up and point them back to SoundTraxx, who was NOT amused. 

But that was definitely a single board setup, with the problems with voltage sensitivity, and apparently not full Tsunami feature set. 

The new ones seem to be of a modular design, with sound as an option. 

Maybe someone with the "new" version could shoot some pix. 

Greg


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