# Opinions on LGB Mikado drive



## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

OK so I finally found an LGB Mikado. I don't know if anyone remembers but i posted a couple of months ago about looking for a used/ broken Mikado( older generation). Someone stumbled upon my post and here it is... First generation Santa Fe Mikado with a slipped drive coupler. 

Anyway, I'm working on getting it back in running condition and putting it through its paces to test for failures and improvements to be made. If you read my older post , i know a couple people with the older generation and they want to rebuild/modify them to make them a stronger puller since the 2nd generation motor block is hard to come by. Which is the reason i was in search for one , plus i didn't have one myself. 

I will have plenty of pictures to come of this project and how to's coming soon, need to upload progress so far from my camera..... 

So far i have drilled the star coupling on the first shaft connected to the motor and pinned it. This was one of the major problems that parked this engine in the first place . It was also a glue nightmare inside, due to a previous attempt at fixing it. I realize that this plastic coupling gets stripped from the brass star coupling on the motor so this will be changed. I just want to get it running for now.

Things on the list so far are: 
- Replace the coupling between first shaft and motor. I will most likely copy something similar to what LGB has done on the 2nd Gen.
- Add a second bearing to the first and last shaft as LGB has done also. 
- Figure out better couplings for the floating shaft between first and last drive shaft if needed.

*My question so far is, was there ever a problem with the couplings spinning on the center shaft?* I grabbed the ends of the shaft by the couplings and twisted with considerable force and to my surprise, they didn't spin loose. 

So does anyone recommend me pinning those while i am at it or was there never a problem with that? I can't see how they would break loose with as tight as they are. 

Also did anyone ever have these coupling strip out or just the one on the motor side? 

Looking forward to what you have to say. The Roundhouse RnR


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Other than the motor coupling, I have only seen 2 other drive problems and only once each. 
I did have to fix one front coupling. Why did they ever think a plastic hub would never slip on a smooth shaft? 
The other problem was a traction tire wheel slipped on the axle and made that one wheel go out of quarter which jammed the side rods and broke the side rods. 
Make sure the mikado wheels are fully seated on the axles as the grooved edge on these axles are very short. Again why didn't LGB make the grooves the full length of the wheel hub?


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Ok , I'm back to work on the Mikado. Sorry for the delay. Just to clarify from my first post. I mentioned not being able to find 2nd generation drives. What i meant to say was replacement drives , not lgb mikados with 2nd generation drives. However there where about 600 to 800 Mikados made with the first generation. So I'm sure there is still alot of them out there. I feel if you acquire or purchase one of these , it doesn't mean you have a shelf queen. You just have to make some adjustments. 

Food for thought.... The LGB track cleaning engine has a plastic gear press fitted on the motor shaft of the cleaning motor. No knurling , pins , or glue. It just goes bouncing down the track at full voltage in the opposite direction of travel to boot. Granted the gear has more surface area then the Mikado drive couplings to grab the shaft. No known problems with this design. Just some proof of poor quality control and tolerances of the press fit. Not so much the design. I'm not standing up for the design. I believe it could be better. Just something to think about...

As for the wheels pressed on the axle. The Mikados method of attaching the wheels to the axle is no different then most other LGB. I really have never heard much about wheels spinning on the axle. I do believe this is attributed to abuse and not so much design in reference to Dan's findings. A possibility could be the size of these wheels and the weight of the engine. However , the Mikado wheel is not much larger than the mogul and its well known for the mogul to take a beating.

So to get your first generation mikado up to snuff. Drill, pin and epoxy all of your drive couplings.( Karden joints) Won't ever spin again.










I filed a small flat on the shaft to keep the drill from walking and to give a place for the glue to hold. Then I pinned and epoxied the shafts. For now its back together and running. I took measurement of the motor shaft and drive shaft so i could make a new coupling between the motor and first shaft. 
Also take note of how out of round and bent the drive coupling is. When i spin the shaft in the motor block you can watch it wobble like a bent bicycle wheel. This is on the motor end. I'm not sure how this happened. It was like this when i got it. This causes a slight growling sound to come from the engine at higher speeds. The sound on low volume covers it up so its not to bad.

Here is a picture of the shaft that was actually glued fast to the top of the motor block. That is glue not grease. It surely won't run in this case. 










More to come as i go. For now its time to see what will make the drive coupling fail between the motor and first shaft. This means pulling some cars and having fun! Soon i will post pictures of my new coupling i am making. Just some Brass and some PET plastic from my local fab shop. Let me know what you think. 
The Roundhouse RnR


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Something i forgot to mention. Thankfully LGB's Luran-s plastic rejects most glue. All of the glue scrapped right off with little to no damage, except for the glue on the couplings. I had to shave the glue off with my dremel. This leads me to beleive the Karden joints are made of a different plastic. 
The Roundhouse RnR


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Roundhouse would you please share your name with us?

I’m interested in you project, if you’ll recall I mentioned in a previous thread I have a drive in my shop for repair now, yours looks like a duplicate to my damaged shaft. I have been trying to source replacement parts with little success. I did finally obtain a new driveshaft assembly this week! Problem is it’s of the second generation so I suspect it won’t be a drop-in repair.

My observations are noted below. 

The carden cup is pinned less than parallel to the shaft, this will cause it to rotate in an elongated sphere; it won’t last long IMO as the brass spur will eat it up and the pivot point created at the pin/cup interface will continue to waller out the cup. The simple fact that you were able to pin the cup to the shaft less than parallel suggests the cup is wallered out all ready. The pin is not perpendicular to the shaft as it should be. Epoxy is great for many things, but not in this application IMO. Epoxy is not resilient to heat; in fact heat is epoxies worst enemy. I’d consider JB Weld for this repair. 

Michael


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks for the input Michael. My name is Kyle and I am from PA. As for the Cardin cup. Things i checked for already are...
Before i drilled anything, i noticed the coupling seemed off. I thought as you, that the cup was not parallel to the shaft.
However, the cups ID was not wallered out at all. In fact I still had to use some considerable force to push it on and off the shaft. It almost seems to me as though heat distorted its shape or a force from trying to pry the motor out without taking the top cover off.

The half of the Cardin cup that is pressed on the shaft seems to run true. However, the cup it self that excepts the brass star is the portion that wobbles. This cannot be seen from the picture so i apologize. It has me a little puzzled.

Also, i drilled my shaft first. Then i drilled the cardin cup as to not waller out the hole for the pin in the plastic as i went through the metal. I probly didn't have to do it this way because it was all secured in my vice but just for safe precautions.

As to the Epoxy. Ill start off by saying i am not a big glue fan. However, I did use JB weld on the other two Cardin cups on the center floating shaft because this was more of a permanent fix that didn't need revisiting. Due to the first cup not running true, i used an epoxy instead because i knew it would eventually fail. So to get it going in the mean time i used a high heat Epoxy. They have epoxy rated at many heat ratings. This one was about 400 degrees. If the engine reaches this temperature, i am going to have a hole lot more problems on my hand than my glue joint failing.LOL

So far , it has not died yet and i have been pulling pretty hard with it. It has stopped growling so it could mean its wearing in or failing. Either way it will be replaced soon.

As i stated before i will upload pictures of the new joint when i get there. May i ask where you sourced your new parts?
The Roundhouse RnR


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Kyle,

Axel of Train-Li USA suggested he had some of the bits and pieces to resurrect the updated drives. That said I found a new updated drive shaft assembly from an individual…

If it were me I’d true the cup in a lathe and fabricate a bushing. This is what I anticipate doing with the damaged cup I have here. Thereafter I’ll fabricate a brass sleeve which will be pressed onto the OD of the cup and tapped to accept two grub screws which will seat against the shaft, a single flat spot for one grub screw on the trued shaft will lock it all together me thinks. In my circumstance I’ll have to turn the shaft down to true the shaft as it’s been roughed up for repair previously.

I’d prefer the updated parts for my repair, so I haven’t tried to repair the old stuff yet! That said I’ll more likely than not attempt to affect my repair as described above regardless of retro-fitting the new parts or not.

Even the special high temp Epoxies are suspect IMO, as they are rated for about 180*F. Epoxy cured at elevated temperatures well above anticipated operating temperatures is best. Over the years I have garnered quite a bit of experience with composite matrixes, mostly with regard to molded parts of carbon fiber/fiberglass, molds and epoxy resins. Post cured epoxies are much more resilient to chemicals and heat than epoxy cured at room temperatures. 

Michael


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## TheRoundHouseRnR (Jul 15, 2012)

Michael, 
I contacted Joane at train-li-usa . He had the updated driveshaft in stock and i purchased it. I still will be repairing the old drive because i was only able to source one new shaft and i have two more i will be doing. Its nice to have the updated one to copy and learn from. 

What i want to know is if you could give me some insight on how you plan to modify the drive to accept the new shaft with two bearings. Even pictures maybe! 
Thanks The Roundhouse RnR


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