# Radius problems



## DaveinMI (Apr 23, 2014)

My track should take 12pcs. to form a full circle. So 6pcs should be 180 degrees. Well 6pcs makes about 190 - 200 degrees. Am I assembling it wrong ? Or do I need to cut or rebend it ?
Thanks for all that reply !


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

What track are you using, maker and diameter? Some, the smaller diameters take 12, others, the larger diameters, 8' and greater, take 16 pieces.

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Like Chuck said, not all circles are 12 segments. As the Radius/ Diameter grows so do arc lengths, but not the packaging. Arcs get chopped for mostly shipping purposes.
Kinda sounds like you have mis-matched sections, not all the same curve, I did that buying sections of track off store shelves. I suspect a previous customer put it in the wrong slot...
A half circle should be a half....
I hope you have Happier Rails

John


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Are all the track curve sections the same?
If they are some of the rails in the set track pieces must be a little too long or short so when you make the rail joins close together you end up with slightly more than 180 degrees. If you can tell us exactly what track it is someone can tell you what the exact radius is measured at the track center then you can work out if you can trim some rails so they go together perfect. You could just bend the whole lot to 180 degrees and put up with the slight gaps too.

Andrew


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

If he is getting more than 180 degrees out of six pieces, then the problem can not be that one or more piece is less than 30 degrees, which would be the case for a size which called for 16 (22.5 degree pieces) or 24 (15 degree pieces) pieces to form a full circle.

However, if there are any brands which require less than 12 pieces to form a circle, then that could be the problem. In this case, the pieces, if laid on top of each other, won't match.

Can you find the brand and part number on the bottom, and are they all the same?

Are you sure the pieces are fully joined and flush at both rails? I find LGB track is inconsistent in ease of assembly, and often the rails aren't aligned in the ties properly.

If the track is used, it's possible a previous owner bent or cut them. As the radius is changed by bending, then the length each rail must be will change. It should be visible if they have been cut by hand. If the track is new, you won't need to bend / cut to make it form standard arrangements.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

What is the Radius of the circle segment you are getting. Maybe the curves are tighter than the advertised radius.


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## DaveinMI (Apr 23, 2014)

This is some old Kalamazoo Toy Trains track. All the pieces look the same, no different radius pieces mixed in It should form about a 60" circle. I don't think it was ever used, but I've had it for 10+ years and don't remember how I came across it, I'm just going by visual appearance. No signs of any pieces being cut, maybe it's just poor quality control.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Put all the pieces together in a circle and see what you end up with. Most likely you will get a circle with some gaps. I would worry more about what a full circle looks like, than a semicircle. There is just too much slop in sectional track to make any meaningful measurements on a half circle, where the ends aren't confined.

Chuck


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## DaveinMI (Apr 23, 2014)

Chuck, I guess that was a good idea to build a circle. As long as I've had this track I never have, so I did. It only took 11 pieces to form a circle, no way could I fit all 12. I ended up with about 55 1/2" center of rail to center of rail. Is this the correct way to measure it ? Anyway, most inside rails were tight together, on the outside rails 4 or so joints had an 1/8" gap, one had more. I guess it is possible that there are different radius pieces, as I took the left over piece and went around the circle comparing it to each of the others, and 2 or 3 might have been a little different . 
Thanks to all......................D. C.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Try doing it again using 12 pieces - I'm sure 11 is not what the manufacturer intended (even on days the QC is asleep!) Just plug them together so 12 are used, then make them as snug as you can.

It's also possible to mathematically calculate the proper length for the inner and outer rail, and see if yours is off.

Yes, radius, diameter, and spacing for parallel tracks is usually measured from the centerline.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with BRO. Use all twelve, they will fit. That's what I meant about slop in sectional track.

Chuck


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep, its definitely 12 pieces to make a full circle..this:



DaveinMI said:


> on the outside rails 4 or so joints had an 1/8" gap, one had more.


Shows that eleven pieces is one too few..
those gaps in the outside rails mean that you have "forced" the circle closed with only 11 pieces..
"widen" out the circle enough to fit in one more piece, and those gaps will disappear..

Scot


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

It wouldn't be very logical if it was designed with 11 pieces. You have gaps on the outside rail which indicates it should be a larger circle with 12 pieces. Someone may have forced some of the sections to curve more which is now making it difficult to put together with twelve pieces. Track diameter is the measurement at the track center line between the two rails not the rail center but measuring from the outside rail's outside across to the inside rail's inside on a circle will be the same and easier to do. 

Andrew


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## DaveinMI (Apr 23, 2014)

Ok, I'm convinced, tomorrow, I'll force it to be 12 pieces and see what gives. It just felt like a lot of effort to get the circle to open enough to get in another. But I have nothing to lose, and hopefully something to gain, so 12 it is.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Just gently spread it as you go. See if you can determine if there are some curved more than others which are causing the problem. There may only be few that have been forced and bent slightly more than they should which will possibly need some rectifying.

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A few pieces might have been bent, either in handling or just poor qa.

You might want a rail bender, or just trim the ends to make the gaps smaller.

Doubtful anyone made 55" diameter track, most likely 60" in the US..

If they copied LGB, then R1 is about 47" and R2 61"..

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Measure the length of the inside rail. From that you/we should be able to calculate the diameter of your circle, assuming 10, 11, and 12 pieces per circle. One of those should produce a number similar to one of LGB's diameters. Measure the curved length, not the chord.

My guess is that it will be similar to LGB R2 which has a diameter of about 5 feet. I'm traveling and do not have access to the exact measurement for that track.

Chuck

From an LGB site. The diameter of the R2 curve is 1560mm (61.42 inches). This is from the center of the track on one side to the center on the other.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> most inside rails were tight together, on the outside rails 4 or so joints had an 1/8" gap


 That suggests the inside rails are tight but the outer ones are pulled inwards making the gap.
Try it with all 12.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

kalamazoo curved track was 30" radius, 30 degree - 12 pieces to a circle. 
Listed in: Walthers 'The World of Large Scale Trains' catalogue 1989. $8-50 per section. 

Andrew


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## DaveinMI (Apr 23, 2014)

Just finished putting in the 12th piece and it's not as bad as I thought. I have three 1/8" gaps on the center rail joints, and one on an outside rail about 1/8'. Where the track joins together most ends appear to have too much bend, but maybe could be made better with pliers. This is where it actually looked better with 11 pieces, the radius at the joints was better. Still makes me wonder why it was so far off try to do 180 degree curve. Maybe it wasn't laying completely flat ?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

DaveinMI said:


> Just finished putting in the 12th piece and it's not as bad as I thought. I have three 1/8" gaps on the center rail joints, and one on an outside rail about 1/8'. Where the track joins together most ends appear to have too much bend, but maybe could be made better with pliers. This is where it actually looked better with 11 pieces, the radius at the joints was better. Still makes me wonder why it was so far off try to do 180 degree curve. Maybe it wasn't laying completely flat ?


It could have been squashed while in storage or maybe the plastic shrank (!) Be careful with the pliers - it is too easy to kink the rail.

The best solution would be to get a Train-Li rail bender and run it along the rails to smooth out the curves.

A less-expensive way would be to turn the curves over and make the curves easier to bend by cutting the web between ties underneath. [I have no idea what it looks like underneath, so let us know if this doesn't make sense.]
There should be a strip of plastic under each rail connecting the ties? Cut through the strip every 4 or 5 ties - not every one. Only cut one side - leave the outer rail ties linked together. 
Then you can gently (repeat, gently!) pressure the curves to be less radius. Put them on a flat surface and hold each end down, while attempting to ease the curve.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

It may have been forced into a smaller radius than it was designed as a part of some previous users layout. If you can slide the rail on the track ties you should be able to close up an outside and an inside gap.

Andrew


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Track is flexible, so it would be easy to give each segment of the curve a bit of a tweak (and I don't mean forcibly BENDING it) to move one end an inch or so and given the friction of it laying on the ground it will hold that position (and curvature). Put several segments end-to-end and the total radius can be off quite a bit.


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

The OP said this was Kalamazoo Toy Train track. It's most likely folded tin like Bachmann used to put in their starter kits. It probably has metal ties. From his comments it sounds like it is three rail track, which leaves out a Train-Li or similar track bender. Bending that rail would be real touchy as it is very susceptible to kinks. Since making a full circle with just a few gaps, I'd put it together and secure the joints with wire or something. Then I'd stand it on edge like a wheel, and roll it around on a hard floor, like your garage. I'd bet in a half-dozen or so revolutions it will probably be as close to round as it's gonna get.

My $.0002


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

The Walthers 1989 catalog lists it as solid brass rail and it appears to have 2 rails with conventional plastic ties.

Andrew


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## DaveinMI (Apr 23, 2014)

Yes, two brass rails, plastic ties. I hope to fiddle with it some more Tuesday.
Thanks again, your ideas are all being read and appreciated !


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## HaBi Farm (Aug 28, 2011)

When I've had gaps in track on curves, the only problems I've had is when the gap is on the OUTSIDE rail. As the cars go around the curve, they want to go straight, and are turned by coming into contact with the outside rail. The tighter the curve, the more pressure on the outside rail to turn the train, and the more a gap there could cause problems. The inside rail supports the wheel but doesn't really help turn the train, so a small gap there usually doesn't matter.

I would suggest using all 12 sections. From your description, the outside rail would be tight all the way around but there would be gaps in the inside rail. If these gaps are too big, cutting one end off of one piece of the outside rail may be enough to fix the problem.

the other Rodney


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## DaveinMI (Apr 23, 2014)

I wanted to follow up on a few things ........... a suggestion on using a train-li got me to looking as I've never heard of one. It really looks like a nice unit, but too much money for what I'm doing. Also a good point was made about gaps on the inside radius not as much a problem as on the outside rails, seems to make sense to me.
Looks like I can make the track work with out a lot of problems, I may bend a little or cut a rail a little before I'm done, but it doesn't look as serious as I first thought.
Thanks To All, I'm sure to have more questions......................


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Try comparing all the track sections looking if any rails are sticking out the ends more than others. If some do and it appears to also be in a little more than the others at the other end move the rail through the ties so all the track sections are the same. That may minimize your gaps.

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Buy the dual rail bender from Robby at RLD hobbies, less expensive and virtually the same unit.

Greg


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