# Shopping for New Engine



## punkin (Jun 13, 2015)

Hello all,

I am still very new to G scale trains. I have a Bachmann 4-6-0 anniversary and a very simple indoor circular track. I have one passenger car and one large combo caboose. It is the Denver Rio Grande Bumble Bee.

I've had a great deal of trouble with this train. It was sent in for repairs within a month of purchase. It returned with several down graded parts as part of the repair. The plastic drive gears were metal and are now plastic, the front truck was a metal swing arm and is now a plastic part on a light spring. Shipping is very expensive by the way. After only a few weeks since the repair it's already showing signs of wear. I only run this a few minutes to maybe 1/2 hour per day and I do worry about it lasting. I like to watch it run with my morning coffee before my day starts. I do very much like the train. It is very handsome but I think I should get something different for every day running and save this for special occasions.

For those interested, the drive wheels have a brass wheel bearing that fits in the plastic body/frame. The brass has grooves which appear to be intended to help it fit snugly into the plastic but it does not and the grooved brass part will turn inside the plastic and grind down the plastic. It leaves plastic bits inside and eventually the wheels get floppy and the train makes odd noises when driving. I did lubricate before use. I used a lubrication kit recommended for trains from Trainworld which has different oils for different applications. They're all plastic compatible and for those conductive surfaces I used conductive (plastic friendly) oil. Again only for those interested but my primary interest is recommendations for a new train and I do not wish to dwell on this.

I have been searching on the internet and I do not see anyone else that makes a 4-6-0 bumble bee. Is there another train engine that would be correct to run with my passenger car and caboose? Perhaps even a different manufacturer with a more durable engine? I do not have scenery or anything fancy and again very new to the hobby I wouldn't know the difference but I would like to get something that is at least reasonably period correct.

I value the suggestions and opinions of those more experienced than myself.

Thank you and have a wonderful weekend!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

What is the diameter of your curves? LGB made a "Lake George and Boulder" Mogul in similar colors. While it can run on 4' diameter curves, it isn't a happy camper. 

It is possible to repaint any engine you like into the Bumblebee colors. Stan Cedarleaf who supports this site makes excellent decals.

Chuck

Here is the LGB Mogul which has been relettered. I did this many years ago.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

This is just a suggestion. If you do not have to use a six-coupled locomotive, you may want to look at locomotives from Hartland Locomotive Works. They are more coarsely scaled than some other offerings, but they are strong runners. I have a 2-4-4 Forney type, a 4-4-0 modern American standard type, and the "Dunkirk" type geared locomotive known as Big John. All of them have been good performers over the years. Big John will pull stumps.

Here is the link: http://www.h-l-w.com/products/locomotives.html

Also, they are American made.

Regards,
David Meashey


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Bachmann has a C-19 in those colors. It is a different design that might be more durable.

Chuck


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## punkin (Jun 13, 2015)

Hello everyone,

My son helped to post this movie;






The track is roughly 5' diameter measured center of track to center of track. I run it slowly. I do not like it fast and racing. I hope the video works!

I like seeing from this angle. I usually see it from overhead which is nice but this is great. We made some artifacts for the caboose. Paper boxes/containers. We found a couple wooden buckets at the hobby store and a couple small crates of coca cola on eBay for $2. T


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Is that diameter with or without any pieces of straight track? Did you measure it on the layout in the video, or did you use just the curved track to make the circle you measured?

Chuck


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

So it seems when one buys the 'improved' latest model Bachmann Anniversary it may only last a month then Bachmann will repair it under warranty with the previous model's chassis with inferior plastic gears and pilot. They do have chassis for the new version in spare parts but obviously too tight to use them for warranty repairs.
How can we justify the extra expense on newer models sold with metal gears if Bachmann do not honor the warranty of repairing to the same specifications of what someone was originally sold? In fact I believe it is illegal for a manufacturer to do that.
Way to go Bachmann... You have now set the precedent of sheer scumbaggery! 

Andrew


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## punkin (Jun 13, 2015)

I have a circle. I live in a smaller place so the track is simple. The track is 5' across middle of the track to middle of the track (between the rails). The video is what I have. I don't have another track. I'm not sure I understand the question.

I purchased from TrainWorld. I purchased the engine, track made by LGB a power system 9900 and track power hook ups. I also purchased lubrication for the train. I also bought the plastic joiner pieces that keep the tracks together.

I later added a passenger car and caboose made by LGB. They have ball bearing wheels and roll very smoothly and have lighting.

I do not wish to make a point or turn up controversy. I like my train but I do worry about wearing it out. I am asking if there are trains that can be driven more often. I would like to make a system that can run every day in the morning for about 30 minutes and then rest until the next day.

Is this possible? I like the steam engines most of all.


Thank you,


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## punkin (Jun 13, 2015)

I also added these coke a cola crates which add visual appeal to the caboose combo car. I leave the doors open with the lights on....so not eco friendly. The price was right and I do think they look rather nice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miniature-1...=4803105a97ce4ae9961555889e3f6c7d&pid=100102&


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

You could possibly get one of Barry Olsen's 4-6-0 chassis specifically made for the Bachmann 4-6-0 locomotive. Not sure if he is still doing them though. 
Keep a spare chassis on hand. The old ones are only around $50 which is probably the same as the one Bachmann did the repair with rather than use the version with improved pilot and metal gear which you paid for originally.
Get an LGB mogul or one of Hartland's locomotives which are more robust in design than Bachmann's 4-6-0s.
I hear good reports for the Bachmann C-19 but it is a larger scale of 1:20.3 rather than your 1:22.5 setup.

The brass bushes are a little loose in the chassis which helps give each wheel the ability to stay on the rail when running on rough track so probably not wise to glue them so they don't spin. Perhaps the wheel side play being loaded up on such a small radius track causes the wheel's back face to rub against the bush which then causes them to spin in the plastic chassis causing wear there. Do you always run in the same direction on the 5ft diameter track circle?
I think if you run the same direction on such a small diameter circle will eventually bed the locomotive into unusual asymmetrical wear problems.
This will eventually cause problems with any locomotive. Try larger radius at least 8ft diameter and a few straights or turns the other way so it is easier and more even wear on each side of the locomotive, then locomotive wear can be kept to an minimum. 

Andrew


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

All LGB locos were made to run on 4 ft track.
The LGB 2-6-0 Mogul will run on 4 foot diameter but looks much better on larger diameter track.
The LGB forney can be found in yellow and runs great on 4 foot track and the Lake George & Boulder version has great digital sound plus a power socket on the rear for attaching a cable for lights in the trailing passenger car.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Dan. The Lake George and Boulder Forney (#20252) would be ideal for your tight curves. It is a very powerful engine, has an excellent sound system and matching colors. 

I think that any short wheel base (2 axle) engine would be best for the long term. While LGB is designed to run on 4' diameter curves, those tight curves are very hard on engines with longer wheel bases. 4 and 5 foot diameter curves are hard on engines, regardless who made them, and the engines are hard on the track. You might notice a black powder under the track when you pick it up. That is very fine brass powder that is being ground off the inside of the outside rail, by the metal wheels. A friend of mine runs his LGB Stainz (0-4-0) on a track with 4' diameter curves, almost constantly. Every few years he has ground off enough of the rail head that he has to replace the track. He runs it a lot, but every time the engine goes around a little more rail is turned to dust. Metal wheels on cars also can cause this. If you have plastic wheels on your cars, you will gradually wear away the flange on the outside. That is why it is a good reason to run the train in both directions, to even out the wear, on the engine and cars.

Here us a picture of the inside rail of a outside rail on a piece of LGB 1100 track. It had been ground away sufficiently for the wheels on the cars to fall down onto the ties.










The rail head should be sticking out beyond the top of the rail joiner.

Earlier I was asking if you had any pieces of straight track in you layout, is it a circle in contrast to a square or rectangle with rounded corners? It is hard to tell from the video.

When you get a chance, turn over one of your pieces of track and look for an LGB stock number. If it is 1500 that confirms your 5' diameter measurement.

Chuck


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm surprised no one has posted the link to George Schreyer's "Tips" page.
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html
It has a comprehensive review and a set of things you can do to improve the engine.



> So it seems when one buys the 'improved' latest model Bachmann Anniversary it may only last a month then Bachmann will repair it under warranty with the previous model's chassis with inferior plastic gears and pilot.


From the video, it doesn't look like an "Anniversary" edition - those rods look like plastic. From George's tips page, you should be able to figure out which version you have.



> The plastic drive gears were metal and are now plastic,


Hmm . . . not sure that makes any sense ;-)
The plastic drives are not usually a problem - they are actually engineering nylon.

The brass bushes on the drive axles are also picking up power - you'll notice the long metal strips that press on them when you replace the bottom plate. It's unusual for the bushes to rotate - but you can drop some glue on them to stop it happening.

As everyone else has been saying, a 4-6-0 is a long engine to run on tight curves. If you think about the inside wheels versus the outside wheels, there is a big difference in the radius traveled and therefore the metal wheels are grinding away at the rails [see previous graphic photo!]


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete

I think that that is part of his problem. Earlier he said, that he bought a new one with metal side rods. It failed shortly after he bought it. He returned is for repairs and got back a previous version.

Chuck

I think that the tight curves are the source of his problem.

From my experience, there is a world of difference between LGB (R1, 4' d and R2, 5' d). My first layout had R2 curves. I didn't have any problems with any of my LGB engines, moguls, mallets, European electrics, and diesels. I can't say the same for R1.

I always thought that it was the extra weight I added to the Moguls that gave me trouble with the idler gears. Thinking back it might just as easily been the tight curves.

Now to be on the safe side, I think that 2 axle engines are best on layouts with curves less than 6' in diameter.


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## punkin (Jun 13, 2015)

Hello everyone and thank you very much for the comments and suggestions.

The train is an anniversary. The moving parts on the wheels are all metal. The original before being sent back for warranty repair had a metal gear for the motor as well. After a few weeks the train started makin some odd noises. Sounded like a scraping sound. The drive wheels were kind of floppy moving up and down very freely and the brass bearing part that makes contact with the plastic frame was turning and wearing away the plastic.

I do have model 1500 LGB track and currently it is a simple circle. I'm not seeing any evidence of wear on the track or wheels but keep in mind I've had this for a very short time and I really only run it maybe 30 minutes per day.

Thanks for the suggestions on alternative trains. I'll be looking at the LGB Fornay later this morning. I hope I can find it in yellow.

Again, thanks everyone!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the information on the track number. That helps us get a better inderstanding of the problem.

When asking for suggestions, more information is better. Had I known you were using LGB 1500s, I wouldn't have suggested the C-19.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

The C-19 is in a completely different ball game compared to BM Annie...
In fact.. going to the C-19, pretty much knocks the ball outa the park..

The OP has not hinted at a $$$$ he can live with..
A circle of track .. couple cars and an Annie.. chicken feed for beginners here...

...and correctly stated.. the C-19 is not the best choice...

Somethin in a blah .. blah - 4 -blah range is better... even a short .. inexpensive Pico loco would work well.. not cost an arm n leg for a new-B...

Paint aside... anything can be painted..
... 
Dirk


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## punkin (Jun 13, 2015)

Thanks again gentlemen,

Pricing isn't the driver although wise shopping is. Being entirely new to the hobby I'm not sure what is the best for me to buy. The track was selected because of the amount of space I have available. My place is very small. I could possibly get a 6' diameter track to fit but I don't believe there is such a thing.


Have a great day all


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Here's an Aristo C16 "bumblebee" for $149:

http://www.trainworld.com/manufacturers/model-train-specials/pgn-gxt80102-classic-c-16-steam-drgw/


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy

A good suggestion, but being a 2-8-0, can it handle R2?

Chuck


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck;

The middle two drive axles on the Aristo/Delton C16 are blind. The wheels do not even touch the rail heads. It's more like a glorified 2-4-0! R2 curves should not be a problem. I run mine on then all the time.










Best,
David Meashey


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks David

I just wanted someone to give an informative answer as to whether it could handle R2s.

Some 2-8-0s have a problem.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Good point Chuck, I'd forgotten about the r2 need. Thanks David for the info.
I was surprised at the low price, seems like a great deal.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Punkin

Last night you ask a question, in a PM, about mixing 1:29 and 1:22.5. I think that the answer is yes. First, most of the LGB American style cars are closer to 1:24. The LGB cars you have are of an indeterminate scale. Narrow gauge cars are smaller in real life that standard gauge cars. But through the magic of scale the 1:24 narrow gauge cars are about the same height and width as as 1:29 standard gauge cars, just a little shorter.

Here are some pictures of my ABT (Adult Beverage Train). It is being pulled by a 1:29 AristoCraft Mallet. The cars are all 1:24, a mixture of USAT, Delton, and LGB. I don't have any pictures of a 1:29 engine with 1:22.5/24 passenger cars.




























I think that these two scales can and do mix. I cannot say the same for 1:22.5/24 and 1:20.3. To my eyes and mind that doesn't seem to work for most cars and engines.

Remember as we are fond of saying, "it is your railroad, if you like it that is all that matters."

If you get a switcher with a tender, you can probably use your Bachmann Bumble Bee tender instead of the one that came with the engine.

Chuck

PS Here are three dealers who buy used "G" collections and equipment. If you want the Forney, you might contact them. It might be safer than EBay. Over the years I have bought used cars from the first two. I have bought new engines and cars from the last two (when the third one was Watts). I never had a problem with any of them. I'm sure there are others out there that sell used equipment, I just haven't dealt with them.

Silver State Trains Las Vegas, NV
Nicholas Smith Broomall, PA
Zionsville Train Depot, Zionsville, IN (Formerly Watts train shop)


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