# Aristo Mallet Problems



## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, I received my Aristo mallet, but once I got it running, my heart fell, because I noticed it was surging, as if there was something binding in the mechanism. I ran it for about 30 minutes to see if it would smooth out, but it really didn't seem to get any better or worse. I ran it slower, and I could hear every time it would slow down a gear grinding type noise. At higher speed it emits a very low humming sound, very much like a tractor or lawn mower. I've contacted Aristo about the problem, but thought I'd ask around here and make sure that I do indeed have a defective engine, and I'm not just missing something


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2008)

So sorry to hear your new engine doesn't run wright, cant say im suprised thou, but the good news is give them a call they will pick it up and repair for free, just sucks to have a new loco not run out of the box.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 
Nick


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Yea, I found out about the free pickup and all that, I'm just mad that I have a brand new engine that I'm going to have to wait 4-5 weeks to make it run right. So far, I'm not impressed at all with Aristos quality control.


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Just wanted to post a follow up, that when I lifted the front mechanism off the track, I was quite surprised to see that everything shut off. Lights, smoke, etc. Basically, I've discovered that neither the tender or the rear set of drivers is picking up power. After not owning an Aristo product in awhile and seeing the QC put into this one, I don't think I'll make the same mistake again.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I unfortunately know the dropped heart feeling.. Wow, I'm surprised to hear of one with those two issues so bad. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif Yeah I guess it's either a pickup and fix or tear into it and troubleshoot yourself are the only options. It's one reason I got so far into these to troubleshoot them so I wouldn't have to wait to get them back AND to make sure they were fixed correctly and permanently. Aristo should hopefully get you fixed up if you send it back to them though. Keep us posted and sorry to hear the bad news. 

Raymond


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

How annoying! 

Those are always smooth-as-silk out of the box.


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, I decided to get an email off to the folks at G scale junction, and they're going to get me a new engine from Aristo. Kudos to them for stepping up to the plate!


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Just thought I would all let you know, I decided to call G Scale Junction, and they are having Aristo pick up the engine and GSJ is sending me a brand new replacement "ASAP"


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## Guest (Jul 17, 2008)

Jims a good guy for doing that for ya, i just hope the next one is trouble free/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif but im thinking you may get another but lets hope not, by the way jim does not see these as they get shipped direct so he's not at fault for bad QC 
Nick....


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, seeing as many other users have had excellent luck with theirs, I doubt I'll get another one like this one, and I did explain that I know it's not his fault for what happened, with something like this it very rarely is the retailers fault. I'm definitely looking forward to doing business with GSJ again


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

That's very nice of them to take care of it for you. Aristo does support the retailers well.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

While some items can have struggles, I've always had VERY good results with the folks at Aristo-Craft. Their service is great, parts shipped quickly and they're always ready to listen. Them's a good company...


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, I got a call from Aristocraft, and they told me that they are not willing to simply replace the engine, they are going to try and repair it. I tried to explain to them that I hadn't paid for a repaired engine, but they didn't seem inclined to listen. Hopefully it isn't out for 4-6 weeks like they say it could be.


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## George Adams (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, now i am confused. You said G Scale Junction was sending you a replacement and now you are saying Aristo is repairing it. Sounds like someone is getting their signals crossed here. Just for clarification, I just spoke with Maryanne, Aristo is picking up your locomotive and replacing it with a new one, not a repaired one. 

George


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

OK, well maybe I misunderstood, but I got a call from Sherry at Aristo saying that they were sending me a shipping label, and I was supposed to write a letter describing precisely what was wrong with the locomotive, and then if the locomotive could not be repaired, they were going to replace it. The exact letter I received from Jim at G scale Junction said that he was going to call Aristocraft and get the problem taken care of. He then informed me that I was supposed to pack up the mallet for UPS pickup, which I assumed was fine, and Jim said he would be giving Aristocraft my address and phone number. I assumed this was all fine until I received the call from Sherry at AristoCraft, saying that they would be repairing the locomotive, not replacing it. So, perhaps I misunderstood something on the phone when speaking to him, but I heard that if the locomotive could be repaired, it would be, otherwise it would be replaced.


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## George Adams (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, that makes more sense, probably just a miscommunication then. As I said before, the word from the boss is that it will be replaced. 

George


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

I hope Aristo takes your new one out of the box and lets nevin check it out 1st before they ship it to you that way you will get a engine that will run.. there service guy nevin or navin is 1st rate when it comes to repairs, good luck and let us know how it runs when it arrives... 
Nick


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, after all the confusion, I decided to call Aristo myself again to clarify things, and I was told that whatever my preference is is fine, I just have to state what the problem is, and if I would like it replaced or repaired. Whatever my preference is is what they will do. Must have just been a miscommunication then.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2008)

Welp, if it were mine i would say have navin at aristo repair yours then you know you have a good engine after that, and not take the chance on getting another bad one. by the way a little birdy told me you are only 15 years old? if so, its great to see younger people getting into the hobby, you WILL have a blast..... you may run into a few hickups along the way, but if you have any future problem dont hesatate to ask questions here, lots of good folk on this forum and a few others.. 
Nick


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, to answer your question, I am 15. I got started when I was about 5 and my uncle gave me a G gauge Lionel Thomas with two coaches and a oval of track. I was like "Real trains don't have faces" and my dad bought me a a Lionel Atlantic and a few freight cars, and after that I was hooked! I started out with a little layout in two bays of our 4 car garage, but my dad soon kicked me out so his cars could go back in the garage, and I got relegated to our small basement with 4' diameter turns, and pretty soon I fell in love with an Aristo Pacific, and I simply HAD to have it. I saved my allowance money for at least a year to buy it, and then my dad bought me some 5' diameter curves so I could run the Pacific, and I built a simple oval in the backyard that was raised up on 2X4s for easy maintenance. No ballast or anything. The railroad was torn down shortly after for R3 (8' diameter) turns for more realistic running. 

Anyway, enough of my reminiscing. I did think about having it repaired, but I asked if they could test the engine, and write a letter stating who it had been tested by, and what tests were performed, just to make sure I don't get another lemon, I just don't want a repaired engine that may not last as long as a new one that's actually right.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dominic: 

I'm sure the problem with your loco is just one loose solder joint. It's not a huge issue to fix. Also the Mallet does NOT pick up from the tender, even though there is wiring in the tender, it's typical. 

A bad solder joint here and there is just part of the game. If you want to improve the running after you get your new unit, see the tips on the Mallet on my site. 

Even though it is espoused that there are enough wheels for pickup with the drivers, improvements can be had by making the tender pickups work too. 

Regards, Greg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

That is a misconception with the Mallet that there are plenty of power pickups but the only drivers that reliably make contact with the track are the center two axles (#2 and #3). So if he was missing the power transfer strips (as I have pictured in the writeup on my website) on just the #2 and #3 axles then he could have the engine go dead as he described. I agree and have learned that ensuring the tender power pickups are in place and wired in are a good idea for this engine. I now wire up the second truck to pickup power as well. 

Most likely though, the replacement engine will run fine and you should have no issues without any additional modification. So don't worry too much about our techincal discussion here. (Some of us here look for ways to make things better and more reliable.  ) 


Raymond


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Raymond, I'd like to hear more about your point on which drivers make reliable contact. I had not heard this before. (It makes sense though in my surprising discovery that adding tender pickups helps). 

Also, a fundamental problem can occur when the power pickup system is not functioning properly, which can be the little "finger" in the metal retaining clip on the gearbox. See my section on "prime mover basics" in the TRAINS...MOTIVE POWER...ARISTO section... 


Regards, Greg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Greg, 

I started having power cut out issues on one of my engines converted to DCS and started the process of checking it out. Did the continuity checks and all wheels were technically transfering power. When I put it on the track and looked really closely at the first and fourth axles I found that they actually can rock side to side as they are designed to do and that the cause was the #2 and #3 axles were riding just a tad lower and pushing the others up just ever so slightly. This was on both drive sets and if I remember correctly my other 2 mallets were like that as well.(but weren't and still don't have any issues on those two.) Once I saw that I understood more why I was having issues. It's not an issue for me that warrants modification of the engine to change the way it rides but I went ahead and added the tender pickups back in as I had originally deleted them (as this was the easiest and quickest way to resolve without alot more work and time spent figuring out exactly what was wrong) and it now runs perfect.(which is all I was looking for so.. " border=0> ) 

I never officially posted anything about it, perhaps I should post this on my site as well. I probably will when I have time. May do a quick video to show how the wheels rock back and forth. 

One thing that I don't think most realize is the Dash-9s do this too. They have axles that aren't fully in contact with the track AND this is a BIG reason why some make such a loud metal clapping noise on the track (i.e. is so noisey). I have spent time on some of my D-9s trying to even out the gear boxes to elminate this wheel slap against the rail to quiet them down but it gets so time consuming I just gave up. I did a video and was going to do a writeup on it but never did. One nice thing about the USA trains steamers and MTH Big Boy and eventually the Triplex, they have independently sprung alxes so they all make contact with the track getting maximum tractive effort and smoothes them out over bumps such as switch frogs. But in the end it's not really that big a deal or necessary, my Mallets run great and enjoy them just as much as my other engines. 


Raymond


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Interesting, I found that the rubber "pad" is under one of the gearboxes, usually the lead or trailing one, and the rest are left "loose". I think I indicate which gearbox is "fixed" on my site. 

One thing about the tender pickups, while they are wired, normally they only pick up when in the battery position, but that position often disconnects the drivers, so in MOST mallets, it's an either-or proposition. 

While George may not like hearing this, this IS a common situation, which I have validated by asking EVERY person I have ever encountered with a Mallet and pickup problems. 

I don't get worked up about this, because I think the Mallet is a great value, and it's easy to check out with an ohmmeter. 

Regards, Greg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree, the Mallet is a GREAT value and folks should buy first worry about any issues later.  


Raymond


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Well it says right in my manual that wheels, including the ones on the tender pick up power. What I do know is that nothing but the front drivetrain is picking up power, and I'm quite sure that the rear drivetrain should be doing SOMETHING to assist in picking up power. I'm quite sure that the mallet is a wonderful locomotive, and I just got unlucky enough to get a lemon.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Indeed. Yours was quite abnormal. Very strange.


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Finally got it shipped back to Aristo today, I'll keep you all updated


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2008)

Good luck with the loco, by the way my nephew barrowed my truck last week and snuck down to aristocraft in NJ to pick up some stuff he bought but wouldnt tell me what, other than he gave me an early birthday present to try to smooth things over and i now own and god help me A B/O mallet/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gifso let the fun begin, i hope mine runs right out of the box. but i'm not holding my breath but maybe as this is a 2nd run loco maybe they fixed some of the issues with them, we will see... 
Nick...


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah yeah, we know... You put on fake eyeglasses and rubber nose and went in and picked it all up yourself. Admit it! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 

You're turning to the dark side, we can see it. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 


Raymond


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Well, it finally arrived at Aristo, so I get to stay in the holding pattern until they call me. Hopefully it isn't too long.


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

And, so that when I get my replacement engine, what is the proper break-in period? I seem to remember from the last time I was into G scale, which was about 2 years ago, that it was 1 hour at a steady speed with a light load. Just wanted to clarify, as I very well could be remembering things totally wrong.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Just run them and don't worry about a break-in period. I've had enough of these engines apart and looked at enough gears to firmly believe there is no reason to mess with break in periods of running them backwards etc. It's not going to matter one way or the other whether you 'break them in' or not. All too often we enter into what I call the 'techno-blable zone' where irrelevant details are blown way out of proportion (usually multiple ones together) and given WAY too much significance... so much so that by the end you could almost believe that the micro sparks from your train wheels really could impact the earth's magnetic field on the opposite side of the planet and screw up Chin Long's coffee pot in Bejing. Mechanically the tollerances with all this stuff is not THAT precise and there's nothing about these plastic gears that running them for a certain way for 1 hour is going to make a real difference in the long run and as John Maynard Keynes said, "In the long run we're all dead." 

But seriously, do what you feel most comfortable with doing and if you really feel that running them under a light load for x number of hours could help it last longer, then do it and put your mind at ease.  

Just my 2 cents. 

Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

And just to make sure that I don't offend anyone, I'm not picking on any particular person. We get to the point above through collective input and discussion. I'm not saying there is one person who gets us there so please don't anyone take personal offense. 

Raymond


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## TheLordsServant (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the opinions everyone, I was told over on the Aristo forum that I didn't observe the proper break-in procedure, so I was wondering if that was, in fact, true. I do remember that I never really "broke in" any of the engines I have, and they're both around 5 years old now and have seen plenty of use, and neither one has a problem currently, or has ever had a problem. So, I think I'll take your advice, Raymond, and simply run it. 

Thanks again!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Proper break in? 

I usually just run the loco slowly with a light load for an hour or two before I put any load on it. It's not as big an issue as it used to be.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Power pick ups...OH yea right that comes into play when you use track power!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 

Havent had that problem for...lets see...about 4 years/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 

I do have a question though, did they fix the problem with the engine shutting down when you breached the 3 amp threshold...Raymond gave me a super fix with that one and still have not had that problem since the fix...thanks Ray!! 

Just kidding with the above..track power has its functionality with certain senerios. 

Bubba


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Bubba, 

No I doubt it as Aristo has those polyfuses in place to keep from burning out the board traces on their power transfer boards in the event of some sort of short or overamperage situation. This could happen under battery or track as the power goes through that rear board (which has circuit board traces even under battery. They would want them to stay in place. 

Now I'm honestly not poking at battery power, but the only times I've ever seen engines go into shutdown because of the 3 amp polyfuses are when someone was running under battery. Joe was having fits with his engine shutting down when he had his open house here in KC some time ago and the only instances I've read about it happening were with battery folks. I think the reasons are twofold: Mainly 1) battery uses are typically only utilizing one plug (at the back of the engine) and are powering everything off that one plug. Well that all goes through one 3 amp polyfuse. Someone running track power would have that total draw go through two, one at the front (front truck) and the second through the rear (truck pickup). So track users are going to come in way under the trip amperage because of the spread load. 

I'm glad our chatting helped!  Thinking on this more... I think I would take and add one, maybe two more smaller amp polyfuses in parallel with the existing one to allow a little more capacity but still offer some protection. If you want to try it, you can get some from http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/RXE-065/RESETTABLE-CIRCUIT-PROTECTOR-0.65-1.3-AMP/-/1.html 

The other thing you could do (which would save having to order anything) would be to run a + and - jumper from the back board (pre-polyfuse) and run it to the front (pre-polyfuse) that way you could spread the amperage load across the two fuses (going through two now instead of one) and still have some protection. In fact, I think Aristo should probably wire them from the factory like that to save you guys this issue. 

I agree, battery has it's applications in some situations, if you are running limited numbers of engines and limited run times. It gets expensive real quick as you start adding # of hours run and engines. I calculated it out the other day, based on the life expectancy of the $70 aristo lithium ion battery packs (1 hr for a Dash-9 per the Ed's thread going on Aristo: http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/Battery_Run_Time.jpg), for me to run my 5 dash-9s 10 hours like I did the other day it would have taken a total of 50 batteries (plus with 50 chargers @ $26 each) coming out for a grand total outlay of $7680. (And I had my 3 Big Boys running on the other loop all day too.) A 700ft all Stainless steel layout with feeders and split-jaws would only cost about $4613 with track on sale at today's prices. Since you don't need to clean SS track (I don't mine) I prefer the cost avoidance and hassle of dealing with battery. It all depends on what you are wanting to do. 

Raymond


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I really don't ned the protection as I rarely pull more then 10 cars with the mallett. 

Any way if the boards do fry I can gutt it anyway and removing all the needless wiring and placing in a Air-Wire board. 

Remember the days before all the new fangled boards and such the Aristo Pacifics had NO nothing inside except for the wiring from the pickups and the motor...NO fuses and they ran lake a champ..I really feel all they have added did nothing to the engines except for add problems with like the fuses and such. 

So protection...don't need it I can hard wire ANYTHING! 

BUT I could not find the poly fuses at All Electronics..thanks for the link. 

I did run the jumpers on my Dash-9s and it solved the shutting down problem. 

And if you use the Aristo batts it would run into money....BUT using the milwaukee batts, and having a couple of 3 bay chargers would not cost that much and tool batts fit perfectly inside the tenders..I ran all morning on just 2 batts..about 4 hours....of cource it was my USA Hudson...just one engine..not many people run more then that..usually...I think Marty runs 2 MAYBE 3 Dash 9's with out any cars that have lights and he runs without any smoke, as it would look out of place, but he routinely gets 45 minutes per charge 

If you run the trains on the tool batts without smoke and lights they seem to run for a couple of hours..if you run lights and smoke they run approx. 45 minutes..sooo you would need at least 10 maybe 12 tool batts fully charged to run all day with your 5 Dash-9s...BOY I feel I am king s--t when I run my 2 GP-9s for 10 hours...I can't amagine 5 Dash 9s'...so I agree in your situation track power is better for you. 

You know the ole track vs battery power thing, but this is by no means meant anything other then friendly conversation...I bow to your stand on track power 

Bubba


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Mine threw its back out yesterday. Ran 5 hours at the botanic with a moderately long train and no incidents. After putting the cars away, I went to run it around once by itself and it wrecked twice. Hmm--the batteries in my camera are dead


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess that helps to have a lighter load. (Is that Mallet the one you got from Marty?) I was thinking in the case of some unexpected short if a wire came loose or something. It probably is a very unlikely risk for you I definitely agree. Wow, I didn't realize the early Aristo stuff had no electronics whatsoever. You know it's kinda that nasty cycle, the more you want in features and convenience, the more complex and the more complex the more areas you have open up for problems. That is one thing I have to give MTH with their DCS sound and control, I have yet to have a single board fail for any reason and with as complex as the electronics it's kinda remarkable. 

I may email you offline to learn more about the milwaukee batteries and chargers. I'm doing a detail cost-comparison write-up on track and battery operation. Thanks for sharing the info you did, this will help.  

Agreed! I bow to yours as well my friend.  Unfortunately discussions on this always get polarized when folks start injecting misleading & inflamatory statements. If discussion would stay objective it wouldn't get that way. (If we could keep pride and financial interest out it maybe we could.) 

And I enjoyed getting to talk with you when you were down at the KC show last month. Look foward to seeing you again soon. 


Raymond


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

All I can say Ray is DITTO!!! 

I can send you the Ebay links if you want..all you type in is Malwaukee battery....then search Milwaukee battery charger..and pricing populates the screen. 

I have both of the 3 bay chargers they offer..but paid way too much for them then for what they can be purchased for now..but You know the thing about.."I got to have it..and I got to have it NOW!!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 

When they guys stop by they laugh at my battery/charger station as I have almost every battery you can think of..and multiples of chargers taboot!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif 

Anything I can do to help...just ask! 

I think the bset thing about this hobby is the people you make contact with and the networking that follows...goes way beyond trains! 

Bubba


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