# Aristo's new universal Plug and Play board



## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Hi all,

This may not be new news to some but Aristo's has announced a new product billed as a new external socket for plug and play. See below Lewis Pol's post on the Kool Aid forum:


Dear All,

I hope the picture in the post below proves that we're serious about our Revolution working in everyone's locomotive. This is not just a product for Aristo-Craft Trains, but for G Gauge trains from all of the makers. Our standard receiver worked with anyone's loco too, but we wanted to go the extra mile for the rest by making everyone plug n' play as mu'ch as possible. Please note that we've added fuses to both methods of attachment. Of course it's plug, wire 'n play, but it is a more secure substitute port and it is heavily fused.

All the best,
Lewis Polk 




I hope it's not just for the Revo system. I hope it's truly universal and will accept all brands of sound and control systems.

Nate


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Instead of reposting Lewis's comments here without his permission, why don't you ask your questions there? 

-Brian


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

It is designed to plug their revoltlution into. 
While similar to the Ames Super Socket (wonder where he got the idea), the motor outputs are reversed.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Truthman on 04/21/2009 5:09 PM
Hi all,

This may not be new news to some but Aristo's has announced a new product billed as a new external socket for plug and play. See below Lewis Pol's post on the Kool Aid forum:


Dear All,

I hope the picture in the post below proves that we're serious about our Revolution working in everyone's locomotive. This is not just a product for Aristo-Craft Trains, but for G Gauge trains from all of the makers. Our standard receiver worked with anyone's loco too, but we wanted to go the extra mile for the rest by making everyone plug n' play as mu'ch as possible. Please note that we've added fuses to both methods of attachment. Of course it's plug, wire 'n play, but it is a more secure substitute port and it is heavily fused.

All the best,
Lewis Polk 




I hope it's not just for the Revo system. I hope it's truly universal and will accept all brands of sound and control systems.

Nate




Hi Nate.

The RCS/EVO PnP-3AC and PnP-3BK wil also fit this proposed external socket.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I just checked the Kool-Aid forum, and is it just me, or do you guys have a hard time interpreting all the "Polk-speak"? Geezus! I guess it's like reading philosophy texts or adjusting to the accents on Coronation Street--it just takes a while before it starts to sink in.  
The amount of disinformation over there is incredible. For example: 
Also, unlike DCC the sounds can be triggered by magnets for automated sound if you wish. 

That is just plain BS! Massoth, and I'm sure others, have been able to accept input from reed switches to trigger sounds for ages now! 
I shouldn't even go there...just makes my blood pressure go through the roof.  
Keith


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 04/21/2009 5:21 PM
Instead of reposting Lewis's comments here without his permission, why don't you ask your questions there? 

-Brian



Just for the record, while it may be the courteous thing to do, I don't think you need anyone's permission to re-post anything that has been posted on the web. And I don't see a question. Since I seldom if ever go to the A/C site, I appreciate this bit of info.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

As I understand it the QSI sound cannot be triggered with reed switches and magnets. 
It would be nice if they could.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Brian, 

I did not mean to offend you or anyone else. I think I have seen your posts over at the Aristo site and I read the forum often. I just don't post often. But so you know because you asked, I did ask questions there. Maybe I upset you with the Kool Aid remark but that is in jest. Over 90 percent of my railroad items are from Aristo and if these new boards are truly universal it will be GREAT news for everyone interested in the Revolution system or not. 

Nate


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Hi Tony, 

Thanks for the information. I have QSI Aristo installed in all my Aristo locomotives and have been waiting for the new NCE throttle to come out. I was considering Airwire but the new NCE throttle seems much better to me. You said the RCS/EVO PnP-3AC and PnP-3BK wil also fit this proposed external socket, pardon my dumb question but can QSI boards plug in as well? i eventually want all battery and wireless R/C(with QSI sound) 

Thanks 

Nate


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, instead of just connecting to the pins on the boards, there are 2 fuses, don't know if track or motor, probably track. Nice idea, but I would have used easy to find auto blade fuses, the tubular fuses are harder and harder to find, and they do not look like the standard length fuses.


The 2 diodes concern me, they look like they go from the track to the headlight common, and they appear to be glass signal diodes not regular rectifier diodes.

There are 7 connections, 2 track, 2 motor, 1 common for lights (apparently positive), 1 front headlight, 1 rear headlight


Here's the picture:















The QSI magnum board is on the bottom, and connects to every useful pin on the "business end" of the Aristo and the QSI and the Digitrax and Tony's decoders.

It has 8 connectors, one more than the Aristo, the 8th connection is a ground (minus). 


Since QSI makes a board with no unknown extra electronics for the same price (Street price $17, Aristo MAP (minimum advertised price) $17, and has both positive (common) and negative connections, I'll stick with the QSI one.. 












p.s. most decoders have an on-board rectifier, and from there get their plus and minus. I think there could be a possible problem with the Aristo board if the 2 diodes are connected to the track directly, and also the decoder has diodes onboard doing the same thing... 



Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

They sure look like signal diodes to me too. They seem to polarise the track voltage for a steady light power supply. The common signal diodes I use can handle 400 ma so the Crest ones should be heavy enough for incandescent bulbs.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Greg, 

You said QSI makes the same board? Is this available right now or is this the board in development? 

Nate


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Nate,
you can get it rite now as QSI uses it for ther Magnum set.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, why aren't I surprised that you don't recommend the new Aristo adapter board?? You point out a lot of interesting conjectures, about why you think Aristo didn't do this board quite right either, but have you seen one or checked it out "in person"? Or is this just your standard "anti Aristo" comment?

Ed


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

It seems to me that Greg has (as usual) backed up any of his critiques with solid facts (and visual aids!) Greg is in that select group of people who have a great deal of knowledge about this subject and who are willing to share it. Someone like myself (who is definitely _not_ an electronics expert!) appreciates these people's contributions. I really don't think they have some hidden agenda or even some not so hidden vendetta against any certain manufacturer! What they _do _have is a healthy dose of common sense mixed with a desire to promote the hobby! This has led some manufacturers to try and blacklist certain people for asking too many "uncomfortable" questions (and no, I'm not talking about Greg and Aristo!) which is too bad. It doesn't take knowledge to be in the rah rah section of your favorite manufacturer. Rather, we are very fortunate to have these people giving us the benefit of their expertiese! I choose to look at it that way.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I think its good info and give folks something to think about. And BTW the Magnum kit as its called is available to plug in your QSI and wirng is a breeze. Later RJD


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 04/21/2009 6:19 PM
Just for the record, while it may be the courteous thing to do, I don't think you need anyone's permission to re-post anything that has been posted on the web. And I don't see a question. Since I seldom if ever go to the A/C site, I appreciate this bit of info.


That isn't true. Most websites have a Copyright mark displayed, which means that anything posted on that web site is copyright protected. It's perfectl legal to link to anything posted on the web, but not always legal to re-post something from one site onto another site.

The old copyright laws had a "fair use" clause that allowed reproduction of certain parts of a copyrighted work for specific purposes i.e. quoting a paragraph of a book in the course of doing a book review, etc. With the passage of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (in 2000?) things got a whole lot more restricted and complicated. I'm no attorney, but I do know that greater care now needs to be exercised to remain within the bounds of the law.


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

Aristo's Forum Rules and Regulations don't appear to discourage reposting of their forum's content. And as well, other people here have discussed and reprinted portions of things like operation manual's, etc about Aristo products i.e. the Revolution and nobody once complained. So, as far as I am concerned there's nothing wrong and we don't need to ask Mr.Polk's permission ESPECIALLY since my initial post was copy of A NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT from Aristocraft, which is I assume they want as many people as possible to buy it. .? 

nate


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Greg, the fuses are micro fuses common to all sorts of various things like Christmas lights, volt meters, etc. (And those are just the things I've got downstairs that use them.) Radio Shack sells them. They're far smaller than automotive fuses, and this is one instance where size (or lack thereof) definitely matters. They're rather ubiquitous in industry, so I wouldn't worry about a shortage any time soon. 

The diodes make sure that whichever polarity is on the track, the polarity going to the headlights remains constant. Both the Aristo and QSI boards use a common positive feed for the headlights, so you've got to have some level of polarity control to accomplish that. These are the same diodes that ship with the "little" board, which works just fine. Since QSI and Aristo both use a common positive for lighting control, I'd presume the diodes on the Aristo board would merely be redundant to what might be on QSI's decoder. It's only an issue if the receiver/decoder uses a common negative instead of a common positive. 

I'm glad to see this. It's definitely an improvement over the original board that left the pins on the other end dangling away, and the screw terminals make life oh, so much easier. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually Kevin, you can tell the size of the fuses by their relationship to the size of the connector. The 10 pin connector is about an inch or so. Micro fuses are about 1/2-3/8 long and much smaller in diameter. 

Standard Buss fuses are 1-1/4" long and 1/4" diameter (pretty sure of this), the less standard ones are about 1" long, but there's a lot of variation... these fuses are the shorter, harder to find variety. Radio shack sells an assortment, part number 270-1262. 

My point is that blade fuses are easier to find ... I said that, I also said "nice idea" 



OK, for you Ed: 

(Ed are you reading everything or just anything that could be construed as negative?) (I know this answer). 

Stop the negative personal criticism, I'm evaluating the Aristo product with factual data, and you are coming back with an emotional response. Keep personal stuff out of this. 

"Greg, why aren't I surprised that you don't recommend the new Aristo adapter board?? You point out a lot of interesting conjectures, about why you think Aristo didn't do this board quite right either, but have you seen one or checked it out "in person"? Or is this just your standard "anti Aristo" comment?" 

If you read what I said, I gave FACTS of why I would purchase the QSI over the Aristo board... FACTS... 

There is only one conjecture, and it was if the redundant diodes could cause a problem. I won't explain ground loops to you, and it is probably not a problem, but this board is NOT TESTED with other products yet. So conjecture is appropriate. 

Now, since you have provoked me, I will give my further comments, which I held back to be "nice"... please tell Lewis you provoked this: 

1. Those are crappy fuse holders, with minimal contact to the fuses, they are not the large, springy contacts that almost completely enclose the end of the spring. That's my opinion, but also experience over 30+ years. 

2. Maybe those signal diodes can take 400 ma, maybe not, we have no idea. But signal diodes are the WRONG type of diode to use here, ask any electrical engineer, signal diodes are used for their fast switching rate, not current handling capability. (They are cheaper, which is probably the motivation) 

3. There should be some adherence to standards, as + and - indicators for the track (the way other decoders identify them) and + and - for the motor leads. Doing this could help ensure that forwards comes out as forwards the first time (you CAN do this with DCC decoders) 

4. HD1 and HD2 should be labeled as front and rear, we can guess what they mean, but why do it wrong, where every other decoder in the world specifies front and rear? 

5. It would have been nice to provide a ground, to help wiring other things that might need ground, like the QSI. 

OK, there's what I really felt, but I was trying to keep it to the most relevant facts and not give Aristo too hard a time over a measly $17 board. But you HAD to make a personal accusation Ed. 

Greg


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Truthman on 04/22/2009 10:36 AM
Aristo's Forum Rules and Regulations don't appear to discourage reposting of their forum's content. And as well, other people here have discussed and reprinted portions of things like operation manual's, etc about Aristo products i.e. the Revolution and nobody once complained. So, as far as I am concerned there's nothing wrong and we don't need to ask Mr.Polk's permission ESPECIALLY since my initial post was copy of A NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT from Aristocraft, which is I assume they want as many people as possible to buy it. .? 

nate


I wasn't criticising you for posting it Nate - I was just trying to clear up a misconception previously posted about web contents being legal to copy.  It's also a subject MLS members should recognize and think about as it affects us all.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 04/22/2009 6:14 AM
...SNIP... 
...I really don't think they have some hidden agenda or even some not so hidden vendetta against any certain manufacturer! What they _do _have is a healthy dose of common sense mixed with a desire to promote the hobby! This has led some manufacturers to try and blacklist certain people for asking too many "uncomfortable" questions ...
...SNIP... 



Thank you, Steve, for your well crafted statements a few posts back that embodies a most insightful perspective.

-Ted


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## Truthman (Dec 13, 2008)

No problem Dwight, I didn't think you were criticizing at all. Just wanted to say why I thought it was okay to discuss manufacturer's products. But a couple of people led me to believe that wasn't okay with them. 

Nate


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Yup, that's me, Greg!!

Ed


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

...My point is that blade fuses are easier to find ...


Not to belabor a point, but I just got back from Radio Shack in search of two items--a magnetic reed switch and a momentary center-off SPDT switch. Neither were hide nor hair to be found. But I could dig through a drawer and a half of 20mm x 5mm fuses. I can't hear my chuff, but at least the trains will run.  

Later, 

K


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 04/22/2009 7:47 PM
I just got back from Radio Shack in search of two items--a magnetic reed switch and a momentary center-off SPDT switch. Neither were hide nor hair to be found.

You buy cell phones and Xmas toys at Radio Shack. I've got what you need if you can't find it elsewhere.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, but auto parts stores are easier to find than radio shacks lately... but I would still use blade fuses, better larger contacts, more rugged, cannot break them, and they are slightly slower blowing than the tubular fuses... I just think they are easier to deal with, you can find blade fuses in wallmart, target, etc. The 5 x 20 mm fuses are only at Radio Shack... yes I have a drawer full of them, but I am thinking of more normal people... not a big deal... just if I designed it, I would do it differently.. 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Er, you can get fuses in fast- and slow-blow varieties, pretty much regardless of what shape they are. It's one of the specs to which they're built. (but then you knew that.) I generally use slow-blow fuses in all my installations. My point is that there's no need to overengineer a fuse for this environment. Our trains don't see the kind of vibration and bumps that cars do (hence the need there for a more rugged design). Larger contacts? The pins going from the socket to the receiver in this case have less contact area than most any fuse holder, regardless of size. If the fuse does its job (rather if it doesn't have to do its job), you'll never touch it anyway. 

Personally, I'm glad to see any level of circuit protection at all. It doesn't have to be there. It could be a plain-jane board like the QSI adaptor, leaving the user to install their own (as they have to do with the board that ships with the receiver). Then, you can use whatever system you want. But the fuses installed on this board are every bit adequate. 

As for availability, I don't go to the grocery store to buy a 2x4. If I know I need electronic components (other than magnetic switches evidently), I go to the electronics store. I would imagine that if Radio Shack decided to sell even fewer electronic components then they do now, a savvy train manufacturer who's sourcing these fuses for production could source a few extra, drop them in plastic baggies, and sell them for $5/bag. I'm fairly certain we all know how to get to the hobby shop.  

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

We are having fun with this aren't we? Yes, I do not go to the grocery store for 2x4's either... of course that has nothing to do with what I said. 

I said, if I built it, I would use a more commonly available fuse. I cannot tell you how many times I have been helping someone on the phone, and the nearest Radio Shack is much further away that a Walmart or Target. Simple concept. You will never convince me that there are more Radio Shacks than Walmarts and Targets. Again, it would be my preference. 

Is is good enough? Sure, I said the fuses were "nice" first, right off. But if I was to build it, I would do it differently. Over engineering stuff never hurts in our hobby, especially if the cost is the same or less (as is is for blade fuses vs tubular). 

And, don't get me started on how few hobby shops are out there!!!! I can get to the hobby shop, it's clear on the other side of San Diego, and they do not have tubular fuses. 

I'm looking up Centennial right now, sounds like a much better place to live! 

Regards, Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I see Lewis replied to this thread in his forum. 

Thanks for calling me a troll Lewis, now hurling insults over the ether. 

Anyway, back to facts: 

Lewis states: 3. Our wiring followed NMRA standards, so why print + or - codes on the board. Everyone in model railroading uses the same color wire leads, so why duplicate well known standard information. 

There are no wires attached to the board, and it is designed for non plug and play locos. If Aristo locomotive follow NMRA standards, well, I'm almost speechless ! I do not thing there is a living soul in the universe that could support this statement. Miswiring and mixing of red and black are common in Aristo locos, as well as red wire painted black. No way the track leads in non plug and play Aristo locos meet NMRA color standards... come on. I have dozens of pictures of Aristo locos. 

The terminals for the motor and the tracks should be labelled, and NMRA standards show track -, track +, motor -, motor +..... I guess I need to email a link to the NMRA to Aristo... sigh... 


Here's an answer to my suggestion to have a ground: 

5. We have no ground as we made the system for our boards, not others and we don't need the ground. This product was made for the Revolution usage only and we had no intention of this being a universal board. It's a Revolution accessory and does what it's supposed to very well. 

OK, so everyone, do not use this on anything but for an Aristo TE board. You heard it from the horse's mouth... 

I accept #5, as my suggestion was based on this being useful for others... I stand corrrected, don't use this for a QSI or a Digitrax, or an ESU, or one of Tony's units... too bad... 

I still do not like the contact patch area on the fuse holders, I like larger spaces especially where heat, moisture, and the elements have an effect... or never run your loco outside is ok too... again, over engineering is nice when it costs nothing. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well it looks like Lewis has been drinking some his own cool aid. Not labeling you board with plus or minis is not helpful and Aristo locos have seldom use the NMRA wireing code. So what is one to do. Later RJD


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually AC does use the NMRA wiring code. 
Just that some wires don't always go to where they are supposed to go and the socket pcb's are often wired differently from one model to the other. Sometimes within the same model production runs.


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

Why would I want a fuse buried in a loco that takes an hour to disassemble and reassemble? Every little short is going to require a rebuild, my booster has short circuit protection.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony, do you have pictures of the motor and track and the headlight and backup light wires/colors in non-plug and play Aristo locos? 

I'm not being argumentative, but I have not seen this in my experience. An older FA-1, a FB-1, an older Pacific, a Doodlebug, etc. would be fine. 

The units I have and the pictures of these locos do not reflect the NMRA color coding as far as I have seen. 

Remember, we are talking non plug and play specifically. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

OK. 
I guess I need to add more information. 
I meant AC uses the NMRA colour coding in their Plug'n'Pray locos.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Right, I have seen that, he is claiming that this board, for non plug and play locos, does not need labeling on the track and motor connections because Aristo follows the NMRA standard. 

It's precisely because Aristo does not follow any wiring standard in these locos that I made the point they should discriminate right and left track and + and - motor. (There are good reasons for this, but I don't want to get more verbose than usual) (If that is possible ha ha!). 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd be happy if AC simply used a three position *Track - OFF - Battery* switch in the socket circuit and positively isolated the track from the battery pig tails. That would help prevent all sorts of disasters from occurring.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

...Why would I want a fuse buried in a loco that takes an hour to disassemble and reassemble?...

Good Lord, man! How dare you inject a bit of common sense into this debate?  
Seriously, that has to be the most intelligent observation I've read about this board so far (and a reminder for me to move the fuse on my mogul). 

Later, 

K


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