# Aster Challenger Test Run



## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); This morning I was invited over to Hans' track to film the first test run of the Challenger pilot model with the latest revisions from Aster. I did some filming -- which I have edited into an iMovie but I'm having trouble with the program uploading the file to YouTube. While I work on that, I would like all interested parties to know that Hans did have a very successful run. The loco popped off after only ten minutes from light-off and operated on the first tank of fuel for a further 50 minutes. That's a big improvement from the Allegheny that required a full tank of fuel just to build pressure. The axle pump which is a double pump is very efficient and refills the boiler quickly. The new boiler/burner combination seems much more efficient and recovers from 2 bars to 4 bars in less than 20 seconds -- repeat 20 seconds! During the 50 minute run, the load was increased from 43 to 53 cars which the loco handled easily; and the loco was able to start the whole 53 car consist on a 1% upgrade with only a momentary slip. Other than that, the engine never slipped. Surprisingly, the locomotive could even handle the full train up the 1% grade even when pressure was only 2 bars after a boiler re-fill. I'm amazed that even with its quick steam-up, the burner only uses a single feed tube -- as compared to the Allegheny's twin large alcohol feed tubes.

The video is up now on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ufO7JeSezc 

Incidentally, I counted the cars after the filming and found we had one more than I referred to in the audio.

Hans is hoping to have both this pilot model and the gray pilot model at Diamondhead. But he's still waiting for the gray one. 

Ross Schlabach

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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ross
Thanks for the update. So, the black version is running with the new steam lines, boiler, firebox, tubes, exhaust design, etc as denote by the Greyhound version test run in Japan?


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Ross 

That is certainly a more useful demonstration than the "kids" at Aster riding around on a flat car with ball bearing wheel sets. Thanks for the video posting. Maybe Hans can get at least one night of good sound sleep before the next surprise. Look forward to seeing one [owned by someone else] on the IE&W Ry track at my Spring meet.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Ross. Looks really good. Will we have to pay just to see one inaction?


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

That's what we like to see. Is it still a "C" type boiler?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Ross, 
Some observations. 
Looks good and detailed. 
It seems that the cylinder drains were open a lot of the time. 
Is this like the S-2 with complex linkage so that they do not close well, or did Han's just leave them open for effect? 
How long is the 1% grade? 
The whole of one side of the track? 
So, 1% up on one side and 1% down on the other. 
If the boiler/burner is so efficient with a heavy train in the cool weather, I wonder what it will be like in the heat of the summer. 
I know, there is no happy medium! 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 04 Dec 2011 03:56 PM 
Ross 

That is certainly a more useful demonstration than the "kids" at Aster riding around on a flat car with ball bearing wheel sets. Thanks for the video posting. Maybe Hans can get at least one night of good sound sleep before the next surprise. Look forward to seeing one [owned by someone else] on the IE&W Ry track at my Spring meet. Jim
Speaking of kids.... The young guy who get on the gray one in you-tube is designer of this engine.
And laughing young guy is chief factory-engineer of this who has controlled of
the quality process. Maybe we can get Ryan to ride the train around IE&W if he can ride in the prone position!


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good to me


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

I'll try to answer these questions as best I can. 

Charles, this loco now does have new boiler, burner, some steam lines -- don't know about blower but I think so. I expect that the gray one may have more upgrades before it gets sent over. Hans had to open her up and put all the new parts in -- with no drawings, photos or directions. In the Air Force, we called that flying blind!

No John, unlike the Circus sideshows, you don't have to pay to watch. Of course we can put out a tip jar at DH........

Jim, I'm sure Hans would like to see lots of production Challengers running at your place next Spring. I don't think a final production timetable has been set yet, but we'll all think positively. Of course, this is a big, complicated beast and I'm sure it won't build up quick like an S2! 

Dan, Hans didn't tell me if the current boiler is still considered a C type -- but it does have lots more flue tubes. Eleven, I think. There's a new single row wick assembly too. When you compare this model to a production Allegheny and realize that an Allegheny takes an entire tank of fuel to build pressure when the Challenger does it in 10 minutes and still has enough fuel for another 50 minutes running time on that first tank of fuel, I'd say it's pretty efficient.

David, there was a small steam leak in one cylinder. And the weather really let the steam show -- both from the drain cocks and the stack. Hans did use the drain cocks a lot because it was fun to see all that steam and he wanted to see how their use affected boiler pressure. Can't answer your question about the drain cock design. It does have more complexity because it's operating two separate sets of cocks on the two engines and there is the articulation to consider. I'll be interested to see the actual design when I start my first kit build. Hans' track goes up and down but almost 1/2 of the loop is a 1% upgrade -- aggravated by a long curve at the top for more flange drag! The other side varies from 1% downgrade to a small climb followed by a long curving descent with a reverse curve back into the upgrade. All in all a good and tough test site -- plus being a great track for RC-equipped locomotives which we favor. I'm surprised that you would think that a alcohol-fired locomotive that was efficient in the cold would be less so when it's warm. I know that gas burners can have problems with cold weather if the gas isn't kept warm, but there is no problem with alkie-fired locos. If they run good in cold weather, they are even more efficient in warmer weather -- they just run longer on a tank of alkie on those warmer days. So there's no "happy medium" to worry about. 

Before anybody asks, I'm sure that the locomotive can pull more. 53 was all we had handy at the time and that represented a good, long train. And none of the cars had ball bearings. I expect that with many more cars the loco would have slipped more trying to get it started up the grade. But as it was, Hans didn't even have to back up to put some slack in the train to assist with the start. He just opened the throttle to see what she'd do. With 43 cars on the grade there was no slip. With 53, there was only that slight slip in the video. And yes, all the cars were on the upgrade when he started her up. Hope I've covered everybody's questions. I can't wait to see the gray one. 

Ross Schlabach


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 04 Dec 2011 05:51 PM 
I'll try to answer these questions as best I can. 


David, I'm surprised that you would think that a alcohol-fired locomotive that was efficient in the cold would be less so when it's warm. I know that gas burners can have problems with cold weather if the gas isn't kept warm, but there is no problem with alkie-fired locos. If they run good in cold weather, they are even more efficient in warmer weather -- they just run longer on a tank of alkie on those warmer days. So there's no "happy medium" to worry about. 


Ross Schlabach 



Ross,
I guess that I didn't explain myself!
The Accucraft Royal Hudson has perhaps the best boiler design that I have seen on a production model, other than perhaps the Aster Mikado, so when I got the wicks adjusted just right for below freezing running, I found that in the heat of the summer I am just wasting steam.
So, I have to adjust the wicks twice a year in order to get the best out of the loco.
I can see with this loco it will then also be the same, otherwise you don't make enough in the winter, or waste in the summer!
All the best,
David leech, Delta, Canada


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

David, that's interesting. But the Challenger has already been equipped with not only a chickenfeed valve but it also has a second flow control valve on the footplate of the tender. So they've got your issue covered!

Regards,

Ross Schlabach 
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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Ross, 
Interesting. 
I will look forward to seeing how well that works. 
I found that limiting the 'volume' of fuel to the wicks just resulted in starving them and getting a smelly fire. 
A gentleman in the UK uses a method of raising, or lowering, the actual wicks, very similar to the old kerosene lamps, and has had great success in controlling the fire heat 'a la gas'. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

David, 

Hans asked me to inquire that with all your questions and interest, why doesn't he have your reservation and deposit?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Ross, 
Good point, but unfortunately no Canadian Railway used this locomotive, so it is of no interest to me. 
However, any knowledge about Gauge 1 models and technology is of interest, so I have to ask questions to find out information. 
Hopefully one day, a future Aster distributor will have them make a 'regular' sized locomotive that is more like those used in Canada. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Michael (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 04 Dec 2011 05:51 PM 
...
realize that an Allegheny takes an entire tank of fuel to build pressure...

Ross Schlabach 









What ???

My experience is different...
Ever tried filling her up ?









Michael


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Michael, that has been the long-standing experience with Hans' Allegheny. It takes virtually a full tank of alkie to get his loco up to pressure. I've repeatedly observed him have to change out the tank before leaving the steaming bays, and we have discussed that pattern on occasion. Other people such as yourself may have had different results and -- if so-- that's great for you. Of course there are other factors that can play a role, such as the outside air temp, how much water you put in the boiler and so on. Another indication of the Allegheny's thirsty character is the fact that it requires two alcohol supply tubes to feed the burners whereas the Challenger only has one -- and a smaller one at that. So I wasn't making my comparison in ignorance or jest -- just accurate reporting as witnessed personally on numerous occasions! 

Ross Schlabach


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 04 Dec 2011 05:51 PM 
I'll try to answer these questions as best I can. 

...and I'm sure it won't build up quick like an S2! 


============= 


quick? ... like in "quick, paint that house"?


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Well, my time references are other Aster kits. The S2 is about the same size as the Berk, but I have built 4 of each and think the S2 builds a bit quicker. The tender has fewer pieces on account of its Vanderbilt design and the boiler has less piping and such. Now the upcoming Challenger is another whole kettle of fish. Don't know if the house painting reference is accurate, but I can say that there are lots of parts just on the exterior of the Challenger boiler casing -- and many of them operate! Then there's the undercarriage which is TWO Hudsons under one boiler. And don't forget the Centipede tender. Of course there is one change in the Challenger that will streamline the construction of the kit, and that is the piston valve system. It's much easier to assemble and time, and there's no lapping! But we will need longer workbenches and stronger arms to handle the completed boiler/undercarriage! 

Hopefully, we'll get a chance to find out for ourselves in the next few months when the kits arrive. 

Happy Holidays, 

Ross


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