# "northeast" caboose arrives



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Just arrived a little while ago. Very nice model--nicely detailed, compact and solid feeling. The metal handrails add a lot. It has plunger pistons for power pickup--thosse will be swapped out for ball bearing wheels. I'm adding some pictures, but look at the last two, comparing the USAT center cupola to the Aristo "long steel" caboose


caboose2.jpg[/b] 

cabooses.jpg[/b] 

cabooses2.jpg[/b] 
(Images exceed 800 pixels in width changed to link, SteveC)[/i]

Notice the same figure--sold as 1/24 on both the USAT and the aristo caboose. Looks to me like somebody's got some 'splainin to do regarding scale. The two cars are almost exactly the same length. But look how much higher and wider the Aristo caboose is. And the door really tells the story


I'm guesing aristo's caboose is over scale, and USAT's caboose is under scale . But I don't have the prototype measurements handy.


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow! that is a beautiful model!  
I cant wait to get one! 

I doubt the USA trains model is under scale.. 
knowing their other models, that seems unlikely.. 

lownote, when you have a chance, please compare the model to this drawing: 










(anyone know if that Aristo caboose has a specific prototype?) 

thanks, 
Scot


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Sot: 

From end of platform to end of platform: 12.75 inches 
End of platform to center of truck: 2.5 inches 
Truck center to truck center 7.75 
Wheel tread to roof at center (about 4.75, hard to measure with walkway) 
Railhead to cupola roof (about 6.5) 

I cant find my scale ruler 

its a very nice model: excellent fine rivet detail, nice proportions. The handrails look right, not like 2 inch plumbing pipe 

Lighting is via 3 incandescent bulbs in the roof--I'll probably change those out. Not sure what's in the marker lights. It has a battery box but does not come with a battery. Takes a 9 volt rechargeable 

Smoke generator appears t be the lionel/TAS unit. It's kind of a pain to fill--pop the cupola off, then pull a small plug in the generator, fill the reservoir, replace the plug, replace the cupola. Pluhg is small and hard to grab. 

All in all it looks terrific


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It comes with a very small funnel for filling the smoke unit--I'll probably lose it soon. it also comes with two cast metal couplers to replace the hook and loops. 

Here are a couple more pics:


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, 13.5 feet in 1:29 is 13.03 inches... your model is 12.75 
19 foot in 1:29 is 7.86 inches... your model is 7.75 
11 foot roof height is 4.55 inches, your model is 4.75 
height with cupola is 13.5 foot, 1:29 should be 5.87", your model is 6.5... the only dimension that seems "out" by a noticeable amount. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well small for 29th or not, I think they're a great looking caboose. 

Looking at the end of the Aristo Craft caboose, the steps look way too big. More like flipers on a whale. 

Check out this website for line drawings and specs for different ypes of Cabeese http://crcaboose.railfan.net/drawings.htm

It looks to me like the center copula Cabeese are actually smaller

Randy


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd like to check those measurements against 1:32. No time right now. Cabese maybe varied mor than any other rolling stock? 

I agree, as mentioned, it's a great looking model.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

1:1
1:29
1:32
model
Railhead to Cabin Roof
11’ 0”
(132”)
4.55”
4.135”
4.75" (.3 over)
Railhead to Cupola Roof
13’ 6”
(162”)
5.59”
5.06”
6.5” (.91 over)
Width
9’ 3”
(111”)
3.83”
3.47”
3.88" (.05 over)

Truck-to-Truck
19’ 0”
(228)
7.86”
7.13”
7.75" (.11 under)

End-to-Truck 
6’ 3”
(75”)
2.59”
2.34”
2.5" (.09 over)
LOA
31’ 6”
(378”)
13.03”
11.81”
12.75” (.28 under)

Mike said " From end of platform to end of platform: 12.75 inches End of platform to center of truck: 2.5 inches Truck center to truck center 7.75 Wheel tread to roof at center (about 4.75, hard to measure with walkway) Railhead to cupola roof (about 6.5)"

I'd say it's a 1:29, and in general it is slightly too tall and slightly too short. Width is good.


Regards, Greg


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Width is 3 + 7/8ths 

My measurements were done quickly and were not all that precise--but I'm going to go with 1:29--a small 1:29 

I've swapped out the carbon brushes for some ball bearing wheels. The lights are very bright--I'm surprised USAT did not use LEDs, I'll probably swap them out, but keep the rechargeable battery circuit if possible. There's a switch on the bottom that lets you choose "all lights on," "rear Lights on," and "all lights off. 

Interior detail is fair--they did not make much effort to hide the electronics. Compared to the new Bachmann caboose, the interior detail is not even close. But the windows are small and what you can see says "caboose interior." I may open it up and do some detailing just for fun 


Aristo's caboose is clearly not in 1:29


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I updated the chart above... 

Why do you call it a small 1:29, you mean the prototype is small? The measurements are pretty close... width is almost spot on. 

I would have no problems being happy with it for myself if it was prototypical on the Santa Fe. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, prototype must have been small. It looks very small next to, say, a 40 foot boxcar in 1:29. I think it would probably make a good caboose in 1:32 also, at least in terms of looks. But then again, it's been many decades since I've seen one of the prototypes go by behind a line of freight cars


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I dont think its any smaller than any other caboose.. 
its a normal size for a mid 20th century steel caboose.. 

I think the Aristo caboose is the one out of proportion, and is perhaps too large for 1/29 scale.. 
the USA trains caboose is definitely not too small, or smaller than any other average caboose type.. 

I think we just arent used to seeing proper 1/29 scale cabooses!  
we run a lot of 1/24 and 1/22.5 scale cabooses..which are "too large".. 
so I think we are perhaps used to seeing cabooses that are too large, 
and when we do finally see one that is correct scale sized, it appears to be "too small" in comparison.. 

anyone have the USA trains bay window or "extended vision" caboose? 
those are probably also properly scaled in 1/29.. 
im curious if they are noticeably larger than the NE caboose.. 

Scot


----------



## GaryY (Jan 2, 2008)

As many cabooses were built/modified 'in house' by the RR's themselves, no doubt there were some variances between roads but below is a website that gives some of the 1:1 prototype dimensions of what I would call a 'standard' type caboose (ATSF) that could be used to convert to 1:29 scale as a comparison the other USAT caboose styles and the Aristo 'long' caboose. 

http://www.scsra.org/roster/atsf_110.html

I copied them in case the link doesn't work

- length over pulling coupler faces - 42'1"
- length over platform end sills - 35' 3"
- length over body end sills - 26'3"
- width over side plates - 9'7"
- height rail top to smoke stack top - 15'6"


The new northeastern style caboose is a nice looking one. USAT has done a good job.

Gary


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm still a little puzzled about the size and scale. Yes, I know the measurements. But here is a comparison of the figure in the cupola--the figure it ships with--and an MTH 1:32 seated figure. The USAT seated figure looks like it might be O gauge


The MTH figure, in the red shirt, was much too small in the cab of an Aristo Pacific. Aristo makes a seated engineer figure which fits that cab pretty well. The aristocraft engineer--supposedly in 1:29--would be vastly too big for the USAT caboose. The MTH figure, supposedly 1:32, also seems too big. I guess my conclusion is theat manufacturers are even sloppier about scale than I thought! 


The USAT Caboose takes a 9v rechargeable--Radio Shack has them. For some reason I don't quite get, the battery powers only the marker lights, not the interior lights. The interior lights are incandescent bulbs and unprotected from flicker.


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

huh..curiouser and curiouser.. 

my theory about the tiny guy sitting in the cupola: 

Im convinced the model itself is actually accurate 1/29 scale.. 
for all the major outer dimensions anyway.. 
but that guy in the cupola definately looks very small for 1/29 scale. 

it looks to me like the cupola platform (floor) is perhaps too high..for reasons unknown. 
(something to do with the battery perhaps?) 
So a tiny figure, in a tiny chair, had to be squeezed in.. 

so my theory - correctly scaled caboose overall, for 1/29 scale. 
but the guy in the cupola is clearly a very tiny human..much shorter than average.. 

Sitting in the prototype cupola is a tight fit.. 
I have been up inside the cupola of the LV caboose in Sayre, PA.. 
its ws about 20 years ago, but I do remember it being quite cramped.. 
the cupola floor of the model should probably be lowered, and the chair and the figure increased in size, 
in order to be prototypically accurate.. 

The guy in Red looks more like the proper scale.. 
he could probably sit in the cupola prototypically..with a tight fit. 

Scot


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a size reference..thats my Dad with the Sayre, PA caboose a few years back: 



















my Dad was about 5' 9" tall..pretty average height. 

More photos: 
http://www.trainweb.org/gggrs/95011...95011.html 

Scot


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Scott, thanks for posting those. Looks like the caboose was a pretty low-ceiling affair. You are probably right about the floor of the cupola--the battery goes in vertically and right down to the floor, so as long as the battery is there the cupola floor has to be high. I noticed when I had the shell off there's not way to actually get into the cupola--no ladder or step-up molded into the walls. The cupola floor would have had to have been much lower.

Lewis Polk just made a post at the aristo forum explaining, as far as I can tell, the long steel caboose was aristo's very first product and that it was either a direct continuation of a caboose REA made, or a copy of a caboose lionel made in large scale (?),which was not scaled to 1:29. 

It looks to be 1:24 at least.

The MTH figure, by the way, ended up down in the cabin, sitting at a table. Still a bit oversize maybe, but in the ballpark


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, Where's the window in the end of the caboose? In the end view drawings and in the photos above, there is a window on the right hand side of the car. Is there a third version? 

Mike, I think Lewis was saying that the caboose was not made to any particular scale or prototype, just a chariacature of the Lionel caboose of the post war era. BTW, thanks for posting pictures and measuring. Looks like a nice caboose and I am considering adding one. 

Mark


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

There must be a 3rd version without windows on the ends. I was looking at the P&WV website and clicked this link. Check out the caboose in the second pic:

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/Gene_S_Book_Cover_NW.html

http://www.thepwvhiline.com/BillHar..._0565.html


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I did some research and even the Reading cabooses came in different varieties--some had windows on the end platform, some did not. One thing I'll want to fix--on the Reading, the roofs were painted black. Out comes the spray can tomorrow!


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I would imagine the USA trains model is probably based on the original Reading design.. 
there was some variation in minor things like end windows, steps, etc.. 

the drawing I posted is for LV versions only.. 

Also LV versions had the distinctive "drip strip" over the side windows, which only LV cabooses had.. 
I will have to scratch-build those when I paint my LV version.. 

Scot


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a slight update--I painted the roof black, which was typical of the Reading, and took a few pictures outside. Our layout is still a real mess, and the ground is very soft so I'm staying away for a bit. It really is a nice model although the lighting is odd--it takes a 9v rechargeable but the battery only lights the marker lamps. I have a feeling I'll be pulling that circuitry and replacing the whole shebang wth LEDS. The pluger pistons have been replaced wth ball bearing wheels, and a few figures have been added


Here it is behind a USAT "utlimate series" reefer and a USAT outside braced boxcar 












And backing into the yard:


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like the battery is for lighting when there is no track power. Several of my Bay window USAT work this way. Later RJS


----------



## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

"...So a tiny figure, in a tiny chair, .. so my theory - correctly scaled caboose overall, for 1/29 scale. but the guy in the cupola is clearly a very tiny human..much shorter than average.."

Have ya measured, top of head to butt + butt to knee + knee to bottom of foot = height (allowing a bit for clothing and shoe heel, of course) !

ie someone sees me sitting probably considered "average height", until I stand up 6'3" not so average !









Thanks for the initial review ! Also glad to see cabeese with realistic railings . . wish manufacturers (or some third party) would have replacement sets of 'scale' railing. 


doug c


----------



## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

Lownote!








This is how I solved the little person problem!!



















And down below on the inside!!



















Sean


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Nice! Looks like that caboose is the place to be


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

The guy with the chicken kinda reminds me of Larry.

Nice pictures, Mike!


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The guy with the stogie looks like Greg.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No way, that guy is a lightweight, 

now, HERE'S a cigar:


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sean: like the figures can you supply the info where you got them from. Later RJD


----------



## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

Homies !! 
BJ's gumball mach. a while ago ! 
When ever I passed and had the 50 cents!! 
You never know?? 
Sean


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I just redid the lights in mine--converted the overheads to LEDs. Added a 2400 uf capacitor to reduce flickering. 

It's not hard--power from the track goes to two copper strips. The lights bulbs are wired to the copper strip. I added a bridge rectifier, the capacitor, and a 470 ohm resistor, and soldered three Christmas light leds to the strips, then hot glued them into the place where the bulbs were.


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Lownote how about some pics. later RJD


----------

