# Wiring for switches



## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

I have LGB 16050/150 switches on my set I'm building and I'm wondering what size wiring I need to use. Can these switches also be controlled by DCC or do I need to buy the LGB 51750 control box for them?

Thank you.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Small wire will work for short runs, 16-20 gauge. To operate with DCC a decoder will be required. The LGB and Piko switch boxes are quite similar and work well.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Thank you for your reply. I'm new to this so is there a certain DCC decoder that works best with LGB switches? I'm looking to get the NCE DCC system.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Any switch decoder will give the pulse needed. A single channel is nice if switches are spread out. A 4 channel may be better if they are close together.


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

*LGB EPL Switch machines*

Careful,

Many DCC decoders will NOT activate LGB EPL switch machines.
The newer Lenz decoders will if you add diodes.
ESU switchpilots will only run them if you also buy the Switchpilot extension and require quite a bit of wiring.

See:

http://www.thomasfrede.com/digital-control.html

Good luck

TOM


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Switch decoders are made to pulse a switch drive. LGB, Piko, Massoth.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm glad you came in to help Tom... I was reading the beginning of this thread and shaking my head.

A little more thought and research on what decoders can operate stall type and impulse machines, and what machines need what length pulse, etc.

Greg


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

*Switches*

Hello again,

My switch decoder and other electronics are installed in the closet. I am running 18 gauge 4 wire (stranded) shielded cable from the decoders to the layout. At least 25 feet. One cable to each LGB switch. 2 wires for the switch motor. The other 2 for segmented track power. I am using the ESU ECoSDetector in the shadow station.



















They work fine.

TOM


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB EPL drive needs a pulse from a switch decoder or control box for any other type of running (analog/DC, battery, live steam)

There are switch drives on the market with decoders built in and these only need to be connected to track power when running track power DCC.

And there are slo motion drives that need a power source and a control pulse.

So, one must pick a switch drive and the method of controlling it.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Tom,
That is a lot of wiring. Since I'm new to this could you give me a break down of the wiring in the closet to get an idea of what each item is and what it does?

Thanks.


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Camanoyard60 said:


> Tom,
> That is a lot of wiring. Since I'm new to this could you give me a break down of the wiring in the closet to get an idea of what each item is and what it does?
> 
> Thanks.


Hi,
Top left is transformer for AC feed for Lenz decoders.
Black box is ECoSDetector for 16 different track segments. Shows if track is occupied.
Top right Lenz reverse loop unit.
Below that 16 ground wires (green) to track. The red ones come from the ECoSDetector.
Bottom are the first three of four Lenz LS150 switch decoders.
In the recess is transformer (20Amp).

TOM


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Tom,

Thank you for helping. Is the ECoSDetector needed for the switches or will the Lenz LS150 decoders work alone?

Steven


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

If you get an LGB or Massoth single channel switch decoder they run directly off track power, plug right into the LGB switch drive and have excellent programming options. Massoth just came out with a new one that is completely waterproof, have a look here:

http://www.massoth.com/index.en.html

Go to the products section, Dimax Track and you will see the switch decoder II.
Complex wiring should be a thing of the past, especially if you are using DCC. 

Keith


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Cougar Rock Rail said:


> If you get an LGB or Massoth single channel switch decoder they run directly off track power, plug right into the LGB switch drive and have excellent programming options. Massoth just came out with a new one that is completely waterproof, have a look here:
> 
> http://www.massoth.com/index.en.html
> 
> ...


Keith, good to see you know the difference in a decoder designed to operate a switch!!! No wiring needed. These are what I was referring to.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One caveat, make sure your DCC system has enough current to handle the extra load on the main line from the decoders.

Some companies don't recommend this, but I do it and have had nothing but success, not to mention less wiring.

Greg


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Tom,
When you say two wires for segmented track power is that part of the decoder set up or just to get power to that section of the track?
Thanks.
steven


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Hello again,

This is a picture of my shadow station track plan on the ECoS touch screen:










The signals signify track segments that show up red if there is a train there. The two wires for these segments are fed trough the ECoSDetector. The boxes are fields that will show the name of the locomotive that is on this segment. Four of the 16 detector segments will show the names. The other 12 just show the track red when occupied.

Hope that helps.

TOM


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Tom,

Thank you for your information. Will the Lenz LS150 decoder work without the use of the ECoS system?

Steven


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Camanoyard60 said:


> Tom,
> 
> Thank you for your information. Will the Lenz LS150 decoder work without the use of the ECoS system?
> 
> Steven


Hi Steve,
Lenz decoders will work with most digital systems. Addresses can be easily programmed . Check their homepage for specifics.

http://www.lenzusa.com

TOM


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Thank you again.
I just have to figure out if I want to buy two Lenz decoders for around 150.00 and run the wiring for each switch or buy 11 Massoth Dimax switch decoders and not worry about wiring at around 60.00 each. This is my wife's fault for buying me a starter set for Christmas. This really adds up in price and still don't have a DCC system yet.

Steven


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Steven,

My advice would be to take your time with choosing a DCC system--some have a lot of functionality built in that isn't apparent when you first look. For example those Massoth switch decoders have sensors built into them so a train can trigger them. I would recommend reading the various online manuals and then you'll get a good idea of what you like and what you don't. Price is really the last thing you should look at because over the life of the system it becomes less and less significant and functionality and satisfaction during use becomes more and more important.

Keith


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

I use NCE SwitchKat decoders with my LGB switch motors. Each SwitchKat is sealed in a small electronic project box to protect against the outdoor environment. 

I run a separate DCC power bus for the switch decoders rather than connect directly to the track, so that I can switch the trackwork to DC for visiting locos and still have DCC control of the switches.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Is the switchkat placed next to the switch then and what kind of electronic project box do you use? 

Thank you,

Steven


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

Hi Steven,

yes the SwitchKat decoders are next to the switches. I'm in the UK so I buy the project boxes from Maplin. 

The project boxes are by Hammond Manufacturing (made in USA), part number 1551HBK. Dimensions 60mm x 35mm x 20mm
http://www.hammondmfg.com/dwg9.htm

As you can see I trim a little off the corners of the SwitchKat PCB to avoid the box screw holes, and smother the PCB in sealant. The end of the box where the wires exit requires a cut-out, which I also plug with more sealant. They've been outdoors since 2009.



















Nick


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Nick,
Thanks for the info. What is the attachment at the top of the switch with the wires going to the track for? The switches I have don't have that.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

Another question. Will 14/2 landscape stranded wire work to wire up the switches.
Thanks,

Steven


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

Camanoyard60 said:


> Nick,
> Thanks for the info. What is the attachment at the top of the switch with the wires going to the track for? The switches I have don't have that.


 I've added LGB 12070 supplementary switches to the motor on my LGB R5 switches, because I've converted them to live frog (better slow running for short wheelbase locos). I'm using half the 12070 to power the frog.


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

Camanoyard60 said:


> Another question. Will 14/2 landscape stranded wire work to wire up the switches.
> Thanks,
> 
> Steven


 Well, as I said I've run a separate DCC power bus for my switch decoders: I used low voltage outdoor garden lighting wire as it was available cheap at the time. I think it is something like 21/02. Choice of wire to use depends on the length of run and current carrying requirement: larger gauge wire is always better to avoid voltage drop. For spur wiring from the bus to the decoder and from decoder to the switch motor I used smaller gauge wire.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I use 16 gauge direct burial for my turnouts without problem. 14 gauge is overkill unless you are running really long wires.


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## Camanoyard60 (Feb 6, 2014)

My longest run for wiring to a switch would be about 36 feet. Would 16 gauge still work?

Thanks.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Camanoyard60 said:


> My longest run for wiring to a switch would be about 36 feet. Would 16 gauge still work?
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, no problem. I have runs much longer than this and can simultaneously throw 20 turnouts at once without problem.


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