# Track on concrete.



## roostr (Jun 17, 2018)

I am to build a simple run of track, 72ft., to be place on a newly poured concrete sidewalk. I am thinking about outdoor silicone to adhere the track to the concrete, anybody have any experience with this method or other recommendations. Up here in the north in Ontario. Thanks.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I would not recommend gluing it down as expansion and contraction of the rails tends to pull the rails loose from the ties. A few tie downs with curves or expansion joints in between would be OK. I tried gluing down some of the track on my RR and the expansion of the rails pulled them loose from the ties. The track needs to be able to move either lengthwise or sideways.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

I have 42 year experience with a concrete based layout near Paris, France , using pre cast sidewalk borders laid on clayish soil. I had a few steps less than a 1/4" to correct over that period as roots and the clayish soil shifted a bit. As since 2019 I have moved I am currently building a new layout which is built on cinder block walls and a brick viaduct placed on real foundations about a foot and a half deep.The precast borders had the advantage that they could be leveled both longitudinally and transversly. Now my contractor has a laser level. I had to contract it out due to health reasons. I posted photos in Rolling stock > USA trains heavyweights, although they really don't belong there, apologies. I will probably move them to a new post on layout building when it is more advanced.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

roostr said:


> anybody have any experience with this method or other recommendations


I've not used concrete, but I have had situations where I wanted the track to be able to move but not too much (as Winn says, don't glue the actual track down.)
One option is battens along both sides of the track to keep it straight and in place. Another is to place a pin or a block between the ties inside the rails, thus letting the ties and track move a little but keeping it in place.
In your case, I'd be inclined to drill a small hole every 6 ft (where there are no ties, so put the track down and mark the holes.) Then fix a block in the hole so the track can float but not much.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete Thornton said:


> Another is to place a pin or a block between the ties inside the rails, thus letting the ties and track move a little but keeping it in place.
> In your case, I'd be inclined to drill a small hole every 6 ft (where there are no ties, so put the track down and mark the holes.) Then fix a block in the hole so the track can float but not much.


I like Pete's suggestion But I think it would be easier to use a piece of 1/4 x 1/4 inch wood or plastic strip crosswise between the rails but with space between the ties and glue it to the concrete with with masonry adhesive.


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

roostr,
Are you going to use track power or onboard battery? I have used glued down track on concrete roadbed for about 15 years now with battery operation, no track power. I used silicone at first but switched over to Liquid Nails construction adhesive which I still use today. Proper gapping with rail joiners that are not too tight allows the rail to expand and contract. My code 250 rail can slide in the tie strip. This works fine for battery operation but probably not for track power. The track in this photo has now been in place since sometime in 2005. Sunset Valley code 250 aluminum, rail sprayed with rust colored paint before installing in tie strip.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Paul, perhaps you could detail your roadbed construction (width, depth, subbase, etc) and also what depth is the frost line where you live. 

Clearly from the photos you are very successful (more pictures!)...

Greg


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Paul your layout is a real inspiration for all of us. I am very interested in your track laying technique as I am in the process of laying track right now. I had been wondering if you used concrete sub base too. Thanks for letting us know. I put a few photos of my layout (under construction) in the forum on Rolling stock > USAT heavyweights. I will send more when it has been completed.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

As yo cannot revise or correct a message I just wanted to add that I use screws to hold the track down every foot or so or as needed. I use rawlpluggs as the track doesn't need to be tightened up too much to the subbase. As Paul said the rail will expand freely in the ties. I once tried battens and they are a catastrophy: The wood for the battens successively receives rain and then intense sun in the summer, so it warps hopelessly; creating havock especially if you ballast your track. As my earlier layout and a part of my new layout features wood ties (handbuilt) I have to use loose ballast on these parts. This will be on the single track aproach from the indoor terminus, the mailine will be all new track. What I will do there is to make a ballast shoulder on each side of the track glued down with outdoor quality white glue, and keep loose ballast around the wood (oak) ties.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually you can edit your messages, I missed it myself the first time, in the upper right corner of your post are 3 dots in a vertical line... click that, and edit is an option.

Greg


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

I realize I am getting into this conversation a little late. I use a concrete bed (north Phoenix, Arizona) with a #3 rebar embedded (prevents the expansive clay from destroying the concrete). This is my third layout using this method. The temperature swings are often 30 degrees in both summer and winter. I use a small alum strip, painted brown, and screwed to the concrete with an expandable sleeve. This seems to work. If it is not too tight, then the track and rails will move. The photo shows the track at top with the alum strip supports and the formwork with rebar.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like a good method.... long ago, the "common wisdom" was concrete screws and/or glue, as the first instinct is to keep stuff from moving.

It took a number of years before people accepted the fact that trying to keep the track from moving was futile, and ripped the rails from the ties.

One person who really turned the consciousness of the "group" was JJ, he changed to a wire loop to loosely locate the track and no more problems, he's in AZ also.

Congrats on getting a working system.

Greg


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