# Aster SNCF Chapelon 241P in ORIGINAL GERMAN



## LindaH (Jan 5, 2008)

FYI
About a year ago there was some debate on this forum about which steam model
locomotive should succeed the present EU models. I have 'babel fish' translated the
original German on the letter preceding this one

THE URL with superb locomotive images MAY BE FOUND AT: - 


http://www.rittech.ch/info/Div/SNCF241P.PDF

DO WE SAY "CHAPEAU CHAPELON ?"

LindaH


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

35 of these locos were built between 1948-52. Nos. 241P1 to 35 and were withdrawn by 1969. 


http://www.martynbane.co.uk/2003Trips/Brienzetc/museum4.htm


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## LindaH (Jan 5, 2008)

_* I somehow lost my BABEL FISH TRANSLATION, which was for all to read if you wanted to read a 'machine English translator. What follows is to save having to use, in this transcription the Google translator. I make no apology for translating the ASTEREUROPA letter because not all may not be able to first pass translate another language; in other cases there are gifted people. *_

Indeed I received, from outside the forum, the following discouraging email prattle -


_... And for who's benefit did you do the translation? If it is for us, then thank you, but if it is for yourself, please understand that Babelfish often produces some very big howlers in language and sytnax that can often be embarassing....__l __We also have quite a few German speakers here on the forum - some are actually German, and others, like me, are simply German linguists/interpreters. If I can help at any time, you have only to ask._*..."*

_I add 'tusen takk TAC, ARBEIT MACH FREI _

CH-5512 Wohlenschwil | Phone: +41 56 491 29 85 | [email protected] | www.astereuropa.com CH-5512 Wohlenschwil | Phone: +41 56 491 29 85 | [email protected] | www.astereuropa.comDear Customer "Exceptional circumstances of the economy require extraordinary measures. " For this reason we have chosen to Europe of Aster as initiators of the next big Aster Live Steam hobby project, the "SNCF 241p", personally at this early stage of development come toward you as Aster customer. This fascinating machine is another milestone in are already on the 30-year history of Aster Hobby with Live Steam locomotives. By many interesting additional "features" will contrast with the locomotive's price compared to the Average commercial rates for a Live Steam Kit. It is clear that due to current difficult economic circumstances, the production of this project must be well thought out. Reservation / orderThe "SNCF 241p" of Aster Hobby During the first project idea in the past Months, you have an esteemed client with Reservation explains a great deal of interest, this locomotive with us acquire, many thanks for that. We would like at this point, the conditions of a reservation or detailed pre-order now. For our realization of this very extensive project, is a down payment by you of CHF 4'000 .- incessantly. We guarantee that the total price for the Kit does not exceed CHF 15'000 .- + / - will be 6%. Upon delivery of the engine you get selbverständlich specific conditions with a 5% discount on the Extended. If they were willing to enter into these conditions? Honest feedback from you as a customer - be it positive or negative - is very important to us, because we are in many ways depending on it. Among other things, to the Becoming evident, what is a realistic number of units be for this fascinating model. We therefore ask you, I Höfle, until 10 April 2009 with We incorporate by email or telephone contact. The personal interview and personal contact with You mean a lot to us, not just on this issue.Status / schedule project "SNCF 241p» Currently we have with us "in our house a “ compilation lungszeichnungen “ of assembly drawings for the locomotive and the tender for the Correction. Before these drawings go to production it is planned to release one pre-production model, with still to do some detail work. According to today's Booth, we will have a pre-production model of this or at least parts thereof, in the International Track-1 meeting in Sinsheim of 27-28 April. Can show in June 2009. The delivery of the "SNCF 241p" is the earliest in the spring 2010 planned. We in Europe still flying Aster mid-April this Year from Japan to the parent company of Aster Hobby for more detailed discussion of some of the details and another sequence of the project, "SNCF 241p." For these Negotiation process wilth your feedback as Aster's customers also have great influence. Features of "SNCF 241p» The drawings, which we have seen so far, make us confident that the construction and detailing will meet a lot of requests. The "SNCF 241p" is a 4-cylinder compound engine with Zylinderabschlammventilen. It will be illuminated. Standard fittings such as brass, regulators, Hebelumsteuerung, Achsspeisepumpe with bypass system, boiler drain valve, Pressure gauge, a glass of water rinsability and a pipe are of course also available! The locomotive boiler of choice is heated with alcohol or coal.Through a small optional add-on kit, it should be possible that alllater versions of this engine can be built It is certain that different number plates, the Alco - Reverse, and some other small details, may be installed.We are convinced you with the "SNCF 241p" a beautiful and fascinating engine to provide can, which will give you much joy. Thank you for your attention and your Feedback. Aster Europe Hansruedi & Remo Twerenbold Wohlenschwil, 30 March 2009


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Dear Linda H - I'm glad to have been offer help, even though in the end you didn't need it. That's what this forum, on which, as you can see, I am a member, is all about.









Min tilbud om hjelp var vennlig, og ikke ment å bli kritisk. Jeg beklager at du ble fornærmet.


As the late Jimmy Durante once noted - There's nothing like being appreciated, and that was nothing like being appreciated.









Nice touch there, by the way, quoting the sign over the gate to Auschwitz Death Camp to a Jew. Way to go, eh?

Best wishes

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## zephyra (Jan 2, 2008)

So, does all this mean that IF I place a deposit of $4,000 and enough people do it, I might get the opportunity to buy a 241P for around $15,000 (Ouch) some time in 2010? (I think the exchange rate is roughly 1:1 for the swiss franc and the dollar.)

Was the prototype shown at Sinsheim in April? The Aster Europa website has no mention of it beyond what I think is a comment that drawings were shown and lots of people seemed enthusiastic..... 

"Das Feedback der Kunden mit auch neuen technischen Hinweisen ist uns immer willkommen und wird auch weitestgehenst gleich in neuen Projekten umgesetzt was die SNCF241P eindrücklich aufzeigt"

Robert

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...ghly 1:1 for the swiss franc and the dollar.)


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert

You and other North American enthusiasts will be able to order from Hans or a dealer in the normal way. I am not sure if Hans and his dealers plan to take deposits or not. In the UK I won't be taking deposits but I will be asking anyone interested to let me know so that I can be sure to reserve a model or kit for them.

The 241P is a mighty beast with every possible feature including alcohol or coal firing. The Aster de Caso 232 U1 is an exception model but the 241P should 'top' that. However Aster are still at the design phase so I suggest that we don't get too excited until a launch date is announced.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

The clever forum topic name of the day, IMHO


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## privero (Jan 18, 2008)

Will this new engine be as large as the Berkshire or S2? If it is, then why will it be around $15,000 usd, is it only because the exchange rate? It looks amazing for one thing, but i guess I rather look for a Big Boy, or a combination of S2 and Berkshire or Daylight. Hopefully, we can have it for $8,000 usd, and still will be great money to spend this days.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By privero on 30 Aug 2009 10:32 AM 
Will this new engine be as large as the Berkshire or S2? If it is, then why will it be around $15,000 usd, is it only because the exchange rate? It looks amazing for one thing, but i guess I rather look for a Big Boy, or a combination of S2 and Berkshire or Daylight. Hopefully, we can have it for $8,000 usd, and still will be great money to spend this days. 

Patricio - the 241P is a four-cylinder compound loco of astounding complexity. It may not be as big as the BIG BOY, or even the Berkshire, but by comparison they are very simple models indeed.

THIS is what it looks like in the tin... http://www.asterhobbyusa.com/images/SNCF_241_P_17.jpg

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

I agree with tac. (and Andrew) 
Dont compare the 241P with anything. It will be the most complex locomtive to date ever made by Aster. And they have to make this move, since "everyone" can make a "simple" well working engine now. 

in the marterial form ´Twerenbold is says: 
_ "The „SNCF 241P“ will be a 4 cylinder compound engine 
with cylinder drain cooks. It will be illuminated. Standard 
fittings such as blower, regulators, lever reverser, axel 
feedpump with bypass system, blow down valve, pressure 
gauge and a rinsable watergague glass are also present! 
It has a locomotive boiler with the optional fi ring systems 
of alcohol and coal."_ 

and so on..... 

And I think the price reflects that this is not something "we normal" can buy. After all it has the price of a (small) car here in Denmark. And please notice that there is no price limit for this engine. It only says that by doing a commision of 4000 CHF you are assured that the price will not exceed "15000 CHF" +6%. And that this is the KIT price. So If you wanted it "cheap" you made an order back in april... The rest of us just have to wait and see what the real price will be, and I dont think 15000 CHF will do it. 

Anyway I really look forward seeing it, and hope I dont have to travel to far to see it running some where. 



/David


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## dmk092 (Jan 5, 2008)

Its clearly a work of art and a marvel of modern engineering. That said, in that price range, I could buy two gauge 1 engines or 1 12" gauge fixer upper

http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/frisco_steam_locomotive_3749.htm


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## LindaH (Jan 5, 2008)

Just to dwell on the Chapelon theme; there was a Chapelon 242 A.1. which succeeded the 241 p.
The Chapelon 242.A.1 was the most powerful and efficient steam engine built in Europe. Unfortunately it was built at a time of diesel and electrofication by the SNCF.

I was extremely lucky to buy a 1:32 live model of the 242 A 1. from a wonderful French Dealer that had commisioned in the 1980's. This particular engine was made as a unique example by Mr Watkin Snaith. The general specifications are as follows:


Coal fired copper boiler with bronze fittings and water preheat chamber. (feed-water heater)
Fully prototypical cylinders, and valve gear (4 piston valves) drain cocks, relief valve, simpling valve, 2 regulators, and so on.
Working 3 cylinder compound. Can be run as on the prototype as a 3 cylinder simple, 2 cylinder simple, 3 cylinder compound or 3 cylinder boosted compound.
Double acting axle pump and double acting pump in tender.
Chassis with full rivet detail.
All wheels, motions and all bright metal parts made in stainless steel. Big ends mounted on ball bearings.
Axles in hardened steel mounted on ball bearings
Working compressor pump to activate working brakes
Working turbo dynamo for working lights (headlamps and inspection lamps.
Fully adjustable suspension as on prototype

This engine is unique and as Tom Rose of Christies said: “How you managed to contain so much detail in so small a scale is amazing" .The engine cost over twelve thousand pounds to build in the 80’s. A friend of the commisioning dealer in France wanted an identical one built in the 90’s and was quoted £30000.
Below i've put a few images of the 242.A.1 which may give Aster something to aspire to.
CHAPEAU CHAPELIN
LindaH


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Very attractive and worthy of any production consideration:


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

LindaH 
Very nice. Thanks for posting the photos. Never heard about this model before but what a find.  

Can you take a close up of the turbo dynamo? 
(Im thinking of making one for my lokomotive and would like to see what others have done) 

Regards 

David


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## LindaH (Jan 5, 2008)

*Dear Charles,*
* What a fabulous sight [and site] to see - a 242 A 1 in such a a fantastic track layout. *
*After assuming for a long time that the last two Chapelon locomotives , the 241P's and the 242 's never had models made of then*
*then magically **you display another 242.A.1. Are you able to tell us the provenence of your locomotive ?*
Anyway, are their anymore 1:32 241's or 242's out there ?[/b]
*At the 1998 **Nürnberg, Germany " Spielwarenmesse " Lemantec [ ex. Lemaco] displayed a 242.A.1**depicted beneath with a caption giving a 2009 delivery.* However I have loooked at their site [http://www.lematec.ch/model-58.html] and they display only a B/W image of a 241.[/b]


























LindaH[/b]


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## LindaH (Jan 5, 2008)

Dear David,
Thank you for you kind remarks about the model 242.A.1. I attach two images of the dynamo as requested.
Unfortunately, short of dismantling the front bogie I can only show the general area.
Kind regards
LlindaH


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Dear LindaH 

Thanks for the extra photos. 

Regarding other 241's You can get a 241A 65 at Proform, and if you are willing to pay they will make a live steam version, but normally they sell electric models for outdoor use. 
Look at their site: http://www.proform-spur1.com/9928/9955.html 

Its all metal, and they use electrolyses to get the molds perfect..... 

Regards 
David


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

I am hoping to once again see 242 A1 in action this month as it was hand build by a master of steam: Dick Abbott.
[script removed]


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## aankus (Jan 5, 2008)

Hmmmmmm 
Maybe I should put 'white walls' on my Berk........ 
Just being silly.... 
I wonder What is Hans considering for the US market ???


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