# LGB Digital only



## thomastoo (Jun 17, 2011)

Can the LGB Decoder II be programed to operate only on digital and brake on DC? I am trying to program a Mikado to brake on DC and am having a problem . Does anyone have info on this? My controller is CVP Easy DCC. You should be able to change CV29 to "0" but it does not seem to work. Thanks for any help you can [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

First thing I would do is put the system in service mode and read out the current value of CV29.... 

Regards, Greg


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Thomas, 

According to my previous correspondence with Massoth, the MTS Type II (LGB 55021 and LGB 55022) and LGB onboard decoders offer 'Brake on DC.' The original version of the Type III (LGB 55027) decoder did not offer this functionality, but Massoth had intentions of adding this feature to future software upgrades for the decoder. The 'brake of DC' feature was removed because Massoth added a 'power buffer' designed to help these decoders operate on dirty track. It appears the power buffer conflicted with the 'brake on DC' feature, so 'brake on DC' was removed. 

The last correspondence I had regarding this issue was in 2008. To be honest, I do not know whether the brake on DC feature was added to future software revisions of the LGB 55027. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Thomas, 

According to my previous correspondence with Massoth, the MTS Type II (LGB 55021 and LGB 55022) and LGB onboard decoders offer 'Brake on DC.' The original version of the Type III (LGB 55027) decoder did not offer this functionality, but Massoth had intentions of adding this feature to future software upgrades for the decoder. The 'brake of DC' feature was removed because Massoth added a 'power buffer' designed to help these decoders operate on dirty track. It appears the power buffer conflicted with the 'brake on DC' feature, so 'brake on DC' was removed. 

The last correspondence I had regarding this issue was in 2008. To be honest, I do not know whether the brake on DC feature was added to future software revisions of the LGB 55027. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So Bob, from what you said, Thomas' Decoder II should have the brake on DC? (assuming that is the actual model of the decoder). 

Would it be worth reading back the version id, or does LGB support that? 

Greg


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Greg, 

LGB decoders support CV#7, Manufacturer Software Version. 

The statement I received did not parse between different software versions of Type II decoders. It inferred all Type II versions offer 'brake on DC.' 

I just re-read Thomas' post. I am wondering whether he is having trouble programming CV#29. When programming, he needs to be sure the power control switch is in position 2 (light/smoke/motor = ON, sound = OFF). CV#29 can be programmed with Direct Mode programming, or the indirect CV#6, CV#5 method. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, that's why I suggested reading it back, that should tell him if he is really communicating with the decoder. Man, have not used the indirect mode in a long time!.. 

Why does the power control switch have to be in that position? I can only guess that the motor on is necessary for talking to the decoder, and the sound off is to reduce the load on the programming track, but would sure like to know for sure. 

Greg


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Greg, 

Most decoders require a load across the motor leads. When the motor is ON, this load is connected to the decoder. 

The LGB Mikado is a sound-equipped locomotive. When using a programming track, connecting the LGB factory-installed sound system can cause programming problems. Capacitors and current draw are the main source of problems. I've never placed a scope on the programming track, but I imagine the high current draw will 'round the corners' of the DCC programming signal, making the signal unreadable to the locomotive decoder. 

With smaller scale, sound-equipped locomotives, it is not unusual to see manuals recommend connecting a 47ohm resistor in series with the programming track leads. The current-limiting resistor can help reduce distortion of the programming track signal. I tried this with an LGB sound-equipped loco once, but I didn't have any luck. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For MTS, CV105 is the decoder version and is where the 55045 gets its decoder info for the computer program. I do not have the magic decoder ring for deciphering this info. 
Cv7 is the software version. 
The data files in the Massoth software version for MTS has cv105 info in each decoder file.


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Dan, 


You wrote: 

For MTS, CV105 is the decoder version and is where the 55045 gets its decoder info for the computer program. I do not have the magic decoder ring for deciphering this info. 
Cv7 is the software version. 
The data files in the Massoth software version for MTS has cv105 info in each decoder file. 


You mean CV #106, not CV #105. CV #106 communicates the decoder model idenitification (decoder type) to the computer interface. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## thomastoo (Jun 17, 2011)

Thanks to all for advice. I will be retrying based on the [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, please let us know your progress, and if the information presented here works or not. 

Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By rwbrashear on 28 Mar 2012 08:10 PM 


The last correspondence I had regarding this issue was in 2008. To be honest, I do not know whether the brake on DC feature was added to future software revisions of the LGB 55027. 


Hello Bob: all current LGB decoders, including the 55027, feature Brake-on-DC. 


Mohammed
http://www.allaboutlgb.com/
http://www.massothusa.com/


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Right, but how do you find the "cut-off" information where they changed (if they did) 

This would be nice information to have... 

Greg


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## thomastoo (Jun 17, 2011)

Just to update you all on my progress or lack thereof: By turning off the sound (switch position 2) I was able to program cv29. And I was able to verify that it was set for digital only. Unfortunately Bob must be correct that some LGB decoders do not have brake on DC as the Mikado continues to run on DC even when it is set for digital only. Perhaps my only alternative is to replace the decoder. Does anyone have any other ideas? Thanks.


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Thomas, 

What type of DC source are you using? Is it PWM? 

Also, can you confirm the decoder model? You're earlier post stated the decoder was a Type II (LGB 55021). (Most older LGB Mikados had a MTS Decoder Interface designed for a plug-in 55021. The Type II should offer 'Brake on DC.') However, I am wondering whether you actually have a Type III (LGB 55027). 

Last question, I assume you have the polarity for the 'Brake on DC' section set correctly. LGB motors are wired backwards from NMRA standards, so the locomotive may actually be seeing DC with the 'forward' polarity. As you are probably aware, the locomotive will need to see 'reverse' polarity to trigger the 'brake on DC' effect. 

Perhaps swapping the track leads to the braking section could determine whether this is the case. If swapping the leads is successful, we have several options. 

Good luck. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## thomastoo (Jun 17, 2011)

Hi Bob

Thanks for the reply. I do not know what type of DC I have used. I thought there was only one kind. I tried it using an LGB power pack. I did try reversing the polarity by transposing the wire feeds. No luck.
As far as the decoder I'm not really sure but the Mikado was purchased in 2006 which was around the time LGB switched from type II to Type III. I've always thought it was a II but perhaps an early III. I do not know how to check. 
I'm thinking now that my only fix would be to install a different decoder. What is your thought on that.

Jack 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Easiest way to check LGB decoder model is with the computer interface. 
Upper right hand corner shows decoder type and version number. 
So, if you can read out CV7 and CV106 someone could tell you the decoder type. 
Unfortunately the LGB system containing just the 55015 or 55015 can not do CV readouts.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

From the first post, the OP has a CVP easy DCC, which should have a programming track and be able to read back CV's 

Greg


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi all, 

I found an old note that states LGB 55027 Type III decoders and Massoth eMOTION (XL/XLS) decoders beginning with software version 1.3 offer 'Brake on DC.' 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi all, 

Had a quick offline conversation with Jack. He has an LGB Mikado which reacts to NMRA parallel function commands. He purchased the locomotive new in the US and it has an 'Analog & Digital' sticker on the bottom of the motorblock. Since the locomotive was never upgraded, it must have an LGB onboard decoder. (Some early Mikados had an MTS Direct Decoder Interface, offering direct plug-in of an LGB 55021 Type II decoder. However, this set-up will only offer MTS Serial Pulse Chain function commands, unless both the decoder and locomotive electronics are 'P-upgraded.') 

Based upon my experience, the onboard decoder should offer 'Brake on DC.' 

For those who want to know more about 'Brake on DC,' the NMRA Recommended Practice (RP) 9.2.4 "Failsafe Operating Characteristics" explains the NMRA recommended behavior. 
http://www.nmra.org/standards/DCC/standards_rps/RP-924.pdf 

One additional recommendation for programming LGB decoders; I have much better luck using Direct Mode programming. For CVP Easy DCC, this is programming mode Type 3. Again, be sure to place the locomotive power control switch in position #2. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## thomastoo (Jun 17, 2011)

just to update all of you that offered me advice on my problem. The problem has been solved. The first good advice I was given was to shut off the sound while programming. As far as the Mikado not braking on DC it seems true that LGB produced some decoders that do NOT brake on DC no matter what you program. With advice from Klaus Stork I was able to replace the onboard decoder with a replacement that Klaus supplied. It was a little tricky getting the decoder back into the locomotive but once done the Mikado runs beautifully and it now brakes on DC. I have installed the crossing control from DccBitswitch and my locomotives can now be run unattended without fear of crashing. Fred Hughes was helpful in giving advice on how to get my Lenz decoders to brake on [email protected] url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Providers/HtmlEditorProviders/CEHtmlEditorProvider/Load.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hello again, 

Just in case anyone is reading this thread in the future and is trying to overcome the same issue, I thought it would be useful to add some final comments. All MTS Type II decoders with software version 2.0 and 2.1 appear to have the following limitations: 
-No Brake on DC 
-14/28 speed step modes are possible, but 128 speed step mode in not available 
-No 4-digit addressing 

Just a note, MTS Type II decoders include Large/Small Onboard Decoders, 55021 decoders, and 55022 decoders. Some 6500x sound modules may also have the same issue. 

The V2.0 and V2.1 decoders were the very first generations of the LGB Type II decoder produced in 2002. The issue appears to have been resolved with software version 2.2 and later. V2.2 appeared in mid/late 2002. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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