# Information please on this track brand



## Colormepearl (Jan 25, 2009)

*First post for me, so hope this is proper.*
*I would really appreciate anyone sharing their knowledge about American Mainline flex track, as I am considering purchasing a quanity of this brand because it seems to be the most reasonable in price. It will be a major investment for me, and I don't want to make a mistake.*
*I do have other track, Aristo, LGB and USA, which all seem to be satisfactory and comperable. This AM track is Euro ties, which should match everything else I have.*

*Since this track is reasonable, (and that brings out my skeptic side) I am thinking that there must be a downside to this. I am also unfamiliar with flex track, and really don't need the flex part, as it will be used for streight sections only.*
*Please, any knowledge on this brand track will be VERY appreciated!*

*Thanks, Ron in Sacramento, CA*


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A friend of mine, who operates a well known Internet shop says that the AML stuff is outselling all his other track brands. 

The reason that they can make it inexpensively is that AML, owned by Accucraft, has their own factory, unlike Aristo and USAT (made by Sanda Kan, now owned by KAder) and LGB (no LGB did not make their own track). 

By the way, the track comes straight, not bent, flexing is optional! 

Regards, Greg


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

If I were to "start over" today, I'd go with the AML Flex w/o question...simply based on price! 

cale


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you looking at narrowgauge or standard gauge track. Only because so far I see the narrowgauge track from AMS holds up better. The standard gauge ties seem to warp over time making the track cup. This may be a fluke but it happened on a friends track and he is in the process of replacing all the ties. Anyone else have the standard gauge track from AMS, what are your opnions? 

Sunset Valley and llagas Creek is also another option, I have the llagas narrowgauge code 215 for about 6 years with no uv damage or any kinking. Track is nailed to 2x6 boards in the ground. Still complely level


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I have AML flex track. Good product at a good price.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have some AMS Flex in code 332 for a year now, no problems. Any new expansions will be only AMS Flex for me.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Whatever track you get, check out their code 250, trains look a lot better on it, seem more toylike on the 332. Get a section of each and look at your trains on them, it's an easy decision then.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

AML track is great, its priced far better than aristos track, looks better, quality is far better than aristos and Robbie at RLD hobbies has it on sale four ... buy 4 boxs get one for free... cant go wrong with AML code 332 brass track..


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## Guest (Mar 10, 2009)

Ron, 

about wich track to use, there are more different opinions than different products. 
best way could be to go fishing for invitations. and look at existing layouts, to build your own decision.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I have used the code 332 flex for a small battery operated layout and liked it fine. 

Has anybody out there been using it for track power? 

-Brian


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a question regarding G gauge flex track. Is it truly flexable? Can you hold one end and bend the other end around by hand or do you need a rail bender? I've got HO brass flex track that I secured one end and pulled the other end around to make a 10-11 inch radius curve all by hand. Can you do that with G Flex? 

Randy


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Depends on the rail material. Aluminum, no problem in any common size. Brass, code 250 bends fairly easily without a railbender, code 332 a bit more difficult, though quite frankly I'd use a railbender anyway for both. (I'm in love with the Train-Li dual-rail railbender. Expensive, yes. Also worth its weight in gold. Many clubs have one to loan out to members.) Stainless? Railbender all the way. 

The advantage of the dual-rail railbenders is that you don't have to take the rail out of the ties to bend it. You just put the bender on the rail, set the dial, and push it along. Slick. I didn't have one when I built mine (AMS code 250 brass), but have since used it when tweaking track here and there for minor adjustments. 

Later, 

K


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## stumpycc (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a 144 feet of AML flex track. I took one of the boxes of 6 six-foot straight and bent it with a Train-Li track bender for my indoor layout. I bent them into 90 degree turns. The AML track can be bent by hand because it is so flexible left to right. You can pick a six foot section up off the ground and hold it in your hand and it will not sag. I have run mine with track power AND DCS and it works great!!!!!! No sparking, just a smooth run. I also used Split-jaw rail clamps. (recommended) The track does come with connectors but you would be better off using split-jaws or Hillman rail clamps. 

Cliff


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks to K & Cliff


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Brian et al, 

I need to place a large order for 332 flex What brand are you using. Does AML offer 332 flex brass? 


Seems to me that 250 flex is in... and for good reason however I want the 332 for my elephant to stand on. (me) 


I received my dual Train Li bender last week. I can see the engineering and quality in it and for me it justifies the cost. Think it is expensive in US$???? Try importing it and paying an extra 30% exchange rate AND brokerage/freight fees !!!


At the price I paid, the unit will be put on display while not in use. ( One of my many expensive train stories ) 

gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 03/11/2009 2:08 PM
Brian et al, 

I need to place a large order for 332 flex What brand are you using. Does AML offer 332 flex brass? 


Seems to me that 250 flex is in... and for good reason however I want the 332 for my elephant to stand on. (me) 


I received my dual Train Li bender last week. I can see the engineering and quality in it and for me it justifies the cost. Think it is expensive in US$???? Try importing it and paying an extra 30% exchange rate AND brokerage/freight fees !!!


At the price I paid, the unit will be put on display while not in use. ( One of my many expensive train stories ) 

gg






QUOTE...
AML track is great, its priced far better than aristos track, looks better, quality is far better than aristos and Robbie at RLD hobbies has it on sale four ... buy 4 boxs get one for free... cant go wrong with AML code 332 brass track


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

RLD hobbies...... do they have a website? 

gg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By GG on 03/11/2009 2:39 PM
RLD hobbies...... do they have a website? 

gg 




http://rldhobbies.com/


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Merci beaucoup mon homme


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tell Robby Nick and I say hi! (and where's my streamliner?) 

Greg


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Actually, the last time I checked, St. Aubins, not my favorite dealer, was selling AML track for about 40% less than RLD Hobbies. Even with the 4 and 1 sale, I think this is less.

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

12 of 6 foot lengths are $198 at St. Aubins


same $296 at Robby's

5 boxes $1,000 at St. Aubins


5 boxes (1 free) $1,200 at Robby's

St. Aubins appears cheaper.


Regards, Greg


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By GG on 03/11/2009 2:08 PM

Seems to me that 250 flex is in... and for good reason however I want the 332 for my elephant to stand on. (me) 



The track has virtually nothing to do with this, it's the foundation for the track that does it. As long as you don't compress the metal in the rails or the plastic in the ties you can run a car on code 197.
It all depends on the foundation.
Location location location


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

how does the AML flex match up (connect) with LGB 332?





i have sometimes mixed aristo and do not get teh greatest fit-it seems the rail joiners of one brand (i cant recall but i think aristo) really are spread adn the connection not always as dependable as LGB to LGB





i do need some flex track this year and i use LGB almost exclusively


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I did this and It's a good match but not perfect. The AML 332 is just the slightest bit taller -- maybe like 338 instead of 332? If you want a perfect match, I sanded the AML rail on the bottom just enough of the rail where it joins the LGB - now perfect. The join before sanding was so slight that I didn't notice it until the train ran over it then I heard a slight clack, then looked closer and saw the slightest height difference. 

I use Hillman or Split Jaw clamps.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Hagen on 03/12/2009 12:48 AM
Posted By GG on 03/11/2009 2:08 PM

Seems to me that 250 flex is in... and for good reason however I want the 332 for my elephant to stand on. (me) 



The track has virtually nothing to do with this, it's the foundation for the track that does it. As long as you don't compress the metal in the rails or the plastic in the ties you can run a car on code 197.
It all depends on the foundation.
Location location location " align="absmiddle" border="0" />







Good comment, very valid.... Thanks

gg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By stevedenver on 12 Mar 2009 04:40 PM 


how does the *AML flex match up (connect) with LGB 332?*





i have sometimes mixed aristo and do not get the greatest fit-it seems the rail joiners of one brand (i cant recall but i think aristo) really are spread adn the connection not always as dependable as LGB to LGB





i do need some flex track this year and i use LGB almost exclusively


Hi Steve,

While this is an old topic perhaps I can add some new information to it.

Over the years I've bought a lot of track mostly new LGB brass but some used LGB brass. Some of the heavily used track led to derailments on curves when the wheels would climb over the rail. At first I thought it was just the inner wear of the outside rail but even when I corrected for this I still had some derailments due to the slight difference in height between the old LGB worn rails and the new LGB track. I ended up buying new Aristo stainless steel track for the curves and the derailments ended.

I had also bought some of the AMS track at the nice discounts St. Aubins was offering and did not notice any problems with it. I did not bend it but instead used it for sidings and straight sections. I noticed a slight difference in height and thought it was because I had it up against used LGB track.


I recently bought a used USA Big Boy and put it on track that is on a shelf along a wall where I can run it back and forth. The track is two 6 foot AMS straight sections at the ends with a LGB section in the middle. The 6 foot sections are isolated and will barely hold the Big Boy, Tender and Caboose.

It did not take long before I noticed that there was a significant bump (both audible and visible) as the Big Boy moved along the rails. My initial thought was that I had accidentally put a heavily used section of LGB track in the middle but then I realized the LGB track was tarnished but virtually unused. The "bump" is caused when the wheels hit and climb from the LGB track up onto the AMS track.

While I do not know how likely this would be to cause derailments I personally (now) will not mix AMS with other brands of track on a curve.

This sharp difference in height also makes me wonder if it would not tend to chip away at plated wheels (such as LGB). 

In the case of the Big Boy even the wheels of the tender audibly bump over the AMS track. I'll be taking a Dremel tool to the track to grind the AMS track end down to the LGB track level.

After a summer being outside on the caboose layout the AMS track was still looking very good with very little visible tarnish but on closer look the surface needed cleaning pretty much the same as other brass track. I rebuilt the main layout with Aristo stainless track and LGB nickel plated turnouts but with the LGB nickel plated turnouts no longer available I've ordered Aristo stainless steel turnouts instead.

I've now run the main layout with Aristo stainless track and LGB nickel plated turnouts for a few years now and I have yet to clean it other than to get leaves, twigs and other debris off of it.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Umm... so the "bump" is caused by a mismatch in height between LGB and the AMS.... could you describe if the rail height is different, or the overall height of the rail and ties. 

So, not all track is the same height. But, your writing says/infers that the LGB track is "right" and the AML track is "wrong"... 

So, the information you really added to the original topic/question was: 

1. It's a different height than LGB or Aristo, but it's not clear if it's the rails or the ties that is different. 
2. It seemed to tarnish at the same rate as other brass track. 

Just trying to boil it down without all the references to other products. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 Sep 2010 01:23 PM 
Umm... so the "bump" is caused by a mismatch in height between LGB and the AMS.... could you describe if the rail height is different, or the overall height of the rail and ties. 
*The best way to describe it is that one rail is held with a LGB brass track joiner (which grips the rails much better than the AMS track joiners) and the other rail is gripped by a LGB Insulated Track Joiner.*

*In both cases the height of the tie is immaterial (does not seem to be different anyway) because it is the rail to rail connection that results in the variation of the track height.*


So, not all track is the same height. But, your writing says/infers that the LGB track is "right" and the AML track is "wrong"... 


Since LGB and Aristo-Craft offer a complete selection of rails (including various lengths, curve diameters etc.), turnouts and rail accessories while AMS (to the best of my knowledge) only offers a very limited selection of products to choose from, I think it is fair to consider AMS as being dependent on its compatibility with LGB and Aristo track.[/b]

*Since LGB track was here literally decades before AMS and virtually all other track has been designed to be compatible with LGB track, yes I would infer that the LGB track is "right" and that any track that does not match it end-to-end is "wrong." That is not to suggest that anyone should not buy AMS track.

My point is not to **disparage the AMS track but instead to simply identify potential problems that may arise from mixing it with other brands. What anyone does with the information is entirely up to them.* 


So, the information you really added to the original topic/question was: 

1. It's a different height than LGB or Aristo, but it's not clear if it's the rails or the ties that is different. 

*I don't think it makes any difference which is different as it is the end result that matters.*

2. It seemed to tarnish at the same rate as other brass track. 

*Actually I think it tarnishes at a slower (better) rate than other brass track.*


Just trying to boil it down without all the references to other products. 

*I think the references to the other track is what it is all about. If one ran 100% AMS track the difference would not matter. It is a case of if and when track brands are mixed that the issue comes up. As far as I know it would be virtually impossible to make anything beyond a simple loop using AMS track exclusively. I may be wrong and if so I invite correction.* 
*I have not said that I regret my purchase of AMS track. It works where I have chosen to use it and I will make some adjustments to it where I need to.*























While I love the clickety clack as trains run over old railroad track, when I hear a clickety clack on my layout I suspect that I am hearing a potential source of problems.

Regards,

Jerry


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

So it looks like the AMS track is slightly higher. How about a measurement of the rail taken not connected to see how much difference there is. I find it hard to believe that if they both claim to be 332 there is a difference. Kind of unusual. Later RJD


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 Sep 2010 01:23 PM 
Umm... so the "bump" is caused by a mismatch in height between LGB and the AMS.... could you describe if the rail height is different, or the overall height of the rail and ties. 

So, not all track is the same height. But, your writing says/infers that the LGB track is "right" and the AML track is "wrong"... 

So, the information you really added to the original topic/question was: 

1. It's a different height than LGB or Aristo, but it's not clear if it's the rails or the ties that is different. 
2. It seemed to tarnish at the same rate as other brass track. 

Just trying to boil it down without all the references to other products. 

Regards, Greg 

Actually, as someone with LGB, Aristo, AMS, Train Li and eventually some Piko track (same rail supplier that EP Lehmann had reportedly) all in one railway, I would say that LGB is "right" in terms of being code 332. 

Forget the AMS for now...

There is a slight web difference between Aristo and the LGB and Train LI, but otherwise they work well together with identical height.

Now, throwing AMS into this mix of track brands, yes, the rail (unsure on overall tie and rail height as I float track in ballast) IS a bit taller, as pointed out by another poster above.

The solution? 

Use all AMS track, or file or make a transition between the different heights. 

The second is no biggie for us H0 guys that have mixed and matched 83 and 70, 100 and 83, etc in the past....


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 02 Sep 2010 03:14 PM 




2. It seemed to tarnish at the same rate as other brass track. 

*Actually I think it tarnishes at a slower (better) rate than other brass track.*



Actually....I would say worse, all the German/Euro stuff weathers to a nice brown like real track, while the stuff from the PRC is still dayglo gold, some of it having lived outside for six years now!


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By aceinspp on 02 Sep 2010 04:29 PM 
So it looks like the AMS track is slightly higher. How about a measurement of the rail taken not connected to see how much difference there is. I find it hard to believe that if they both claim to be 332 there is a difference. Kind of unusual. Later RJD 

To be honest I don't even know what 332 means other than that it is what I think of as LGB track code. I once read what it means but I've forgotten.

I went ahead and checked several pieces of new/like new track with a dial caliper and I found that the LGB brass and Aristo stainless track is .338" tall with slight variances. By comparison I found the AMS track to be .358" tall again with slight variances. There seems to be a pretty uniform .020 difference in height with the AMS track being .020" taller than LGB and Aristo track. I did not measure the ties since the joiners are what is gripping the track and both the LGB and the AMS ties are laying flat on the shelf. 
Whether a difference of .020" is important or not I would leave for others to sort out. My only point is that there is a noticeable difference which happens to be enough to make the USA Big Boy and its tender audibly click and visibly rise as it crosses from the LGB onto the AMS track. It is enough for me to want to do something about it which is the extent of my concern about it.

Another difference (one that I did not mention before) is that in the photos it is obvious that the Head Depth is obviously greater on the LGB track than on the AMS track. While this may not seem important it is this part of the rail that may actually be subjected to the greatest wear because the wheel flanges push against the inside head of the outer rail every time a train goes around a curve. I had to throw some heavily used brass track away - not because the top of the head was worn - but because the inside head was worn to the point that the wheel flange was riding on the web. I don't know the relative hardness of the LGB vs AMS track and it is possible that the AMS track could be harder equalizing the wear.

It was not my intent to make a major issue out of it - just to point out the differences for anyone who might happen to be interested.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Spule 4 on 02 Sep 2010 04:49 PM 
Actually....I would say worse, all the German/Euro stuff weathers to a nice brown like real track, while the stuff from the PRC is still dayglo gold, some of it having lived outside for six years now! 

As they say "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder."

I suspect that there may be some sort of coating on the PRC track. I was surprised a few years ago when I rebuilt a layout and decided to buff the track after chemically cleaning it. The Aristo brass track came out looking so great (like pure copper/gold) that I decided not to use it on the layout but to instead put it on some display shelves.

My main concern is to clean/polish used track to the point that I am comfortable that I will get a good long term contact when I put LGB conductive paste in the joiners.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, the "code" of a track, is it's height in thousandths of an inch, no matter what scale you are in.... code 40 in N scale is 0.040" and code 332 in G scale is 0.332" .... at least something makes sense between scales! 

Wow, did not know the AMS track was taller, that is weird, because that means it uses more metal per foot (given the same cross section)... bizarre. 

Thanks for bringing this to light with pictures, never seen the side to side comparison. 

Greg


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

If I'm not mistaken Brian (altterrain) & Kevin Strong (MLS - East Broad Top) reported that finding back when the AMS track came on the market.

Track, Trestles, Bridges and Roadbed/Topic: American Mainline code 352??? (03 Jun 2008 01:57 PM)[/b]


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, remember that thread, but the result to me at the time, and after re-reading the entire thread again just now, was inconclusive. There was not enough consistent data for me to draw any conclusion. Looking closely at Marty's picture, and the rails in the far side of the picture, it appears to have a height mismatch that looks like Jerry's picture.

Also, I don't wonder if the joiner could have something to do with the alignment, if the width of the base of the rail is likewise different.

Regards, Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

I had not seen the earlier thread. I found this thread by doing a search and rather than starting a new topic I decided to add to this one. Both topics seem to confirm the .020" difference in height. I don't think the joiners have anything to do with the height as the AMS rail measures .020" taller. In addition to the brass LGB joiner I also used LGB insulated (plastic) joiners where the LGB and Aristo track would easily slide into the joiner but the AMS track was a much tighter fit. I think the web may be wider on the AMS track and it probably gouged a wider channel in the plastic joiner for its web.

My personal concerns about the height difference are based on:

1. I had experienced derailments on curves when I mixed LGB new and LGB used brass track with a similar difference in height (old track had a worn head). My first thought was that it was the inside head of the outside rail that was letting the wheel flanges climb up and over the rail so I then recurved the track putting the worn inside head to the outside but the derailments continued (this was on 8' diameter curves). I then pulled the LGB brass track on the curves and replaced it with new Aristo stainless curved tracks and I have not had a derailment since.

2. I have a fair amount of LGB locos and rolling stock with LGB metal wheels. I believe the LGB wheels are made of plated brass. It seems to me (no facts - just supposition) that those plated brass wheels may be damaged by continually hitting the sharp ridge of the higher AMS brass track. Some locos and rolling stock may have unplated steel wheels and if so I would not be concerned if running them. 

It is totally immaterial to me what brand and type of track anyone else buys or for what reasons they choose it. My caboose layout is made up of 90% left over used LGB brass track and turnouts plus a quantity of used LGB brass track I bought when I converted the portable trailer layout to the much larger permanent caboose layout. Other used track came from my outside layout that I had converted from Aristo brass to Aristo stainless track. Since the layout had been 100% brass track I bought the AMS brass track because it was so cheap. 

My personal conclusion (what I will do - which is all that concerns me) is that I will not use track on a curve that does not match both in height and in head width plus if I do use track of varying height on a straight section I will probably use a Dremel tool to smooth over the height change to avoid any potential damage to brass wheels or wheel plating. In effect I believe the real railroads would make the same choices. The problem (to me) of doing this is that once I grind down the ends of the AMS track to match the LGB/Aristo track it will no longer match the height of the rest of my AMS track which had not been similarly ground. Its all about standardization. Either it matters or it does not. Everyone has to set their own personal standards and what meets one person's standards may not meet another person's standards. This has nothing to do with right or wrong - just what makes one person happy vs what makes another person happy.

Its all about information and not about brand preferences. Everyone can read whatever the facts happen to be and make their own decisions as to whether the facts have any particular importance to them. I am not making any recommendations for anyone to do anything.

I believe Marty 100% when he says that he has been using the AMS track for years with no problems. It may well be that his wider curves prevent any stress on the motor blocks/wheel flanges of his locos and the 8' diameter curves of my layout combined with the irregular height of the rails may have been allowing the wheel flanges to escape from the stress (caused by the much sharper curves of my layout) by climbing out of the rails at their first opportunity. 

As for the edge of the higher rail striking the wheels I may or may not be concerned about a problem that may or may not exist. I do what I do based on my personal perceptions of facts as I see them. I don't offer them as confirmed facts to others.

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 Sep 2010 08:48 PM 
Also, I don't wonder if the joiner could have something to do with the alignment, if the width of the base of the rail is likewise different.

Regards, Greg 



Hi Greg,

I often reuse LGB brass track joiners and since they have to be severely distorted to remove them that means some method is necessary to reshape them.

I happened to find that this Craftsman/Vise Grip pliers works very nicely for me in reforming the LGB brass joiners:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...ckType=G11











There may be other tools as good or better but for me this tool works. I use a scrap piece of track to reform the joiner to its web and base. When done the reformed joiner clamps as tight or tighter than a new joiner. I also use this method to tighten the AMS joiners which are not as tight as I like them to be. 
If you look at my top photo (where AMS and LGB are in red) you can see where I reformed the LGB brass joiner slightly different to accomodate the differences in the web of the AMS track and the web of the LGB track. That kept the base of the web of both rails level with each other but the tops reflect the height difference.


Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I wish I could find another source for these:









You can re-form the joiner right on the rail. Since I no longer use joiners, I use them to straighten twisted rails and to put rails in alignment when clamping.

Regards, Greg


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
Could those be made on a vertical mill? Hmmm? 

Chas


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03 Sep 2010 09:59 AM 
I wish I could find another source for these:


You can re-form the joiner right on the rail. Since I no longer use joiners, I use them to straighten twisted rails and to put rails in alignment when clamping.

Regards, Greg 



That looks like a great tool for brass joiners. I still use far more track joiners than clamps. If anyone knows where one could be found I would like to know about it.

Thanks for posting the photo,

Jerry


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 02 Sep 2010 05:08 PM 
Posted By Spule 4 on 02 Sep 2010 04:49 PM 
Actually....I would say worse, all the German/Euro stuff weathers to a nice brown like real track, while the stuff from the PRC is still dayglo gold, some of it having lived outside for six years now! 

As they say "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder."

I suspect that there may be some sort of coating on the PRC track. I was surprised a few years ago when I rebuilt a layout and decided to buff the track after chemically cleaning it. The Aristo brass track came out looking so great (like pure copper/gold) that I decided not to use it on the layout but to instead put it on some display shelves.

My main concern is to clean/polish used track to the point that I am comfortable that I will get a good long term contact when I put LGB conductive paste in the joiners.

Jerry


Jerry, it is actually the composition of the brass/copper alloy and the amount of zinc, no coating or what not.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, the "manufacturer" was here in Southern California, but his email and phone don't work any more. I am always watching. Yes, a mill used on a pair of pliers. I have my one pair. 

Regards, Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

There _is_ some kind of coating or treatment or something on the Aristo-Craft and AMS rails. I don't know what it is, but when I tried to chemically blacken the rail, it did nothing. Then I scuffed the rail with some steel wool and tried again with much better results. Also, when I sanded the tops of my Aristo rail after painting the sides of them, the tops blackened much more quickly than they had prior. It's not like there's a clear varnish or anything, but something in the manufacture of the rail gives the surface a resilience to tarnishing that can be sanded off. One of those weird things, I guess... 

Later, 

K


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By East Broad Top on 03 Sep 2010 12:16 PM 
There _is_ some kind of coating or treatment or something on the Aristo-Craft and AMS rails. I don't know what it is,


It's not like there's a clear varnish or anything, but something in the manufacture of the rail gives the surface a resilience to tarnishing that can be sanded off. One of those weird things, I guess... 

Later, 

K 



I agree. If you use a buffing wheel with buffing compound the resulting color is totally unlike the normal yellowish appearance of Aristo brass track. It buffs out to a beautiful pure copper color.

I have no idea how the buffed track would weather because it looked so good that I kept it indoors for my display tracks.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The buffing compound can easily change the color, as well as other chemicals. 

I'm of the opinion it's work hardening or other changes to the surface of the metal as a result of the manufacturing process. 

Of course it's possible to coat the rails with something, but why would these two companies spend extra money on coating brass? 

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting. I have found the opposite with Aristo track myself, even high speed cutting (air tool) of the rail resulted in no color change, but have never tried grinding/sanding. 

With these comments, I think the heat treatment comment by Greg has merit. Going by memory here, lower zinc content would be a softer brass, but brighter as less zinc resistant to tarnishing...so there maybe a need for heat treatment?


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

The only comparison I can make is that LGB brass must be softer as it is a lot easier to drill and tap LGB brass track than Aristo brass track. Whether that is good or bad I have no idea.

Also polishing LGB brass track does not seem to affect the finished color. It simply ends up looking like new LGB brass track. Chemical cleaning (with Kaboom) on the other hand can give LGB brass track a pinkish tint (not always).

My high school chemistry teacher only passed me if I would promise to avoid chemistry in the future as I have no aptitude for it. I could not even make gunpowder.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have notice the same "softer" situation on LGB track. My opinion is that the alloy of brass they use is superior for our use. 

I have never had reports of LGB rail cracking or splitting, but I have of Aristo. Now, the holes drilled into the underside of Aristo rail to secure the ties cannot help, but normally a more "flexible" brass means it will have less likelihood of cracking or splitting in extreme conditions. 

Aristo has long extolled the quality of their rail, focusing on the percentage of copper, but that is not the only indicator of quality. 

But the different alloys of brass will definitely react differently to chemicals, as you have proven to yourself Jerry. 

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah, memory was wrong, while zinc in larger amounts is harder, the tarnish part of my post is spot on with a quick google check and per comments above. 

This may be of interest for those wondering about Greg's comment about cracks: 

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-11878192/NSF-Standard-14-addresses-dezincification.html 

Hard water and ammonia can cause cracks with higher zinc containing brass....dezincification.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

From these pictures, I would suggest grinding some material from the bottom of the higher track and then clamping the 2 different pieces together. 

However, would grinding the bottom affect the joining quality of the clamp? Just some thoughts.


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 02 Sep 2010 04:58 PM 

Another difference (one that I did not mention before) is that in the photos *it is obvious that the Head Depth is obviously greater on the LGB track than on the AMS track.* While this may not seem important it is this part of the rail that may actually be subjected to the greatest wear because the wheel flanges push against the inside head of the outer rail every time a train goes around a curve. 

Jerry

I had a follow up thought on the head height difference which was that if the head depth was less on the AMS track to begin with and then we ground it down to match the LGB track we would end up with even less head depth to limit wear of the wheel flanges. This made me curious about how much head depth I was talking about.

The first thing I found was that it is hard for my dial calipers to measure the head due to the width of the caliper combined with the curve of the top of the rail head. My measurements were anywhere from the same at .100" to about a .010" difference. This was more an exercise in curiosity than anything else since the only length where the head would be ground down would probably be a less than an inch.

The only worthwhile thing I learned is that someone with a better measuring capability might find that the head depth of the LGB track and the head depth of the AMS track may be the same. The difference visible in the photos may be an optical illusion.

While I have no access to any facts it might be that AMS changed the specs slightly to avoid any legal problems that might have arisen if they perfectly matched the LGB track. Just a thought. If this was not the case, then I think they should have made a better effort to match the LGB track.

It does seem to me (again no facts) that fewer dealers are carrying the AMS track. Perhaps it was not selling well for lack of a complete line or due to the differences. I think St. Aubins was selling at or below cost to move it out of their inventory.

Jerry


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 04 Sep 2010 06:38 AM 


It does seem to me (again no facts) that fewer dealers are carrying the AMS track. Perhaps it was not selling well for lack of a complete line or due to the differences. I think St. Aubins was selling at or below cost to move it out of their inventory. 
Jerry








Ste. Aubins dumped a bunch on eBay about a year or so back, when and where I got mine.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

So here is my perspective:

Regardless where you produce rail, it's price is a 99% direct correlation to the raw material costs. Why? Because you start out with round wire and put it through the extruder. A machine cuts the rail every so often - no manual labor involved. This is one area where PRC can't have any advantage given the use of the same raw material. A support person of one of he leading suppliers recently told me "We wish we could get German Brass quality in China"!

So with that said the cheaper the track the more the short cuts. One of the shortcuts is the composition of this allow. I have had customers report that one manufacturers Brass track lasted on a Christmas layout less than two weeks, then the raiheads were completely worn out and the rolling stock dropped into the rails. I have also heard that another manufacturer recently changed its Brass composition to keep the price but didn't note this on his product listing.

ProLine track is 100% made in Germany (including the tie strips, with the exception of ProTies US which are Made in the USA-but to the German standards, so is ProTrack Display). Its brass composition is the best available Brass on the market, because we don't want to compromise. At the end of the day track is an investment, saving a 100$ here or there may end up costing you double, because you have to replace the worn or destroyed track.

ProLine track is code 332 and mates 100% with LGB track. I have just measure a piece of Aristo Stainless steel and it measured too 332. But the rail foot is wider causing a noticeable jump at the rail head when mated with ProLine or LGB. I found that not to be true for Aristo Brass. I can only explain this that the die has difficulty to keep the rail in shape, unless the die has different tolerance for their Brass. I have combated this with our ProClamps. I moved the straightedge of the ProClamp to the inside of the rail and now the conically shaped shrew head control how much I push each rail against the straights edge support. This allowed me to adjust the clamp in a way that the rail heads lines up and didn't cause a noticeable wheel jump.

At Check link for 50 feet of flextrack (incl. ProClamps not joiners) we offer the best track that money can buy, why take the risk with PRC track? And of course the Ties strips are high grade HDPE UV protected, and the strength of the rail chairs avoid the ugly snapping which almost renders a strip useless. The tight fit of the rail chairs guarantee perfect gauge throughout the layout.

And the cost effective alternative to stainless steel is ProLine NI track and switches. for one it has the same electrical conductivity as Brass but it has the anti corrosive properties that you would expect from some stainless steel.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 05 Sep 2010 07:08 AM 
So here is my perspective:


At Check link for 50 feet of flextrack (incl. ProClamps not joiners) we offer the best track that money can buy, why take the risk with PRC track? And of course the Ties strips are high grade HDPE UV protected, and the strength of the rail chairs avoid the ugly snapping which almost renders a strip useless. The tight fit of the rail chairs guarantee perfect gauge throughout the layout.





....and just doing some comparison with another 5' brass euro tie style track (sold 12 vs. 10 sections per box or 60 vs 50 feet per case) from one of the other Asian brands listed above using current pricing by a well known discounter for $382.99, the ProLine track actually worked out to be over $1.00 _A FOOT_ cheaper, and that did not even factor the costs of the clamps.


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