# Structure Bases?



## deeredaze (Mar 10, 2008)

Hi,
I was wondering what you guys use as a base to sit your structures on? I have read about using concrete, which would probably be great. But I was really hoping not to have to make a form for each building to pour concrete into. What about some sort of patio paver or bricks maybe? What is this hardi backer board stuff from Lowes like? Will it hold up to sitting on the ground for years to come? How do you cut and shape it? 

I am not a huge believer of pressure treated on the bare ground. It has rotted away in 10 to 15 years here in PA. I do use it, but not in contact with the ground if I can help it. Locust seems to last a super long time in the ground. I know that Redwood, Cedar, and the likes will last a long time too, but I just prefer not to have anything wooden come in contact with the ground.

Is there anything that is comparable to good old creosote anymore? I always like the smell of that stuff for some reason! It always seemed to do the trick, though. I have even thought about Delrin, which is easy to work with, although expensive for large pieces. Maybe even plexiglass would work as well? 

Could anyone recommend something long lasting? Any experience with a product that you like to use? How well does it hold up? Any thoughts? 

Thanks for your time,
Kris


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## post oak and otter lake (Dec 27, 2007)

I have several buildings sitting on ceramic floor tiles. I use 6 X 12 ones for roadways and 12 X 12 & 16 X 16 ones as bases for buildings. I bought really cheap ones in tans & beiges. 

 Roger 
Post Oak & Otter Lake RR 
Caddo Mills, TX


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Patio blocks...


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## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

Cement board does a great job as a base. It holds up better than Hardibacker on the ground. It can be purchased at Home D or Lowes. It comes in 3' x 5' pieces 1/4 or 1/2 inch thick. You can score and snap it to size.


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

Kris, I agree with dieseldude. Concrete backer board does a great job as a base. It can be cut with a jigsaw and holds up outside. 
Ron


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I know it is not easy for most people but I use either 16 or 11 gage steel 
Dennis


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Paver bricks, 12x12 and 16x16. Cheap, level, and easy, bought some just today. Buck and change each for the little ones, the bigger ones are three something for whatever reason? 

Used hardi board, glued some Piko platform parts to it with liquid nails, it held great....until it rained. May replace it with backer board? A friend has stacks of Transite from years ago, now that stuff holds up!


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## crashbig (Aug 29, 2008)

Iv'e been using the cement board as well. Two years no problems.


Pete


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## deeredaze (Mar 10, 2008)

Thanks guys. I guess everyone uses something different! 
Dennis, how long does it take till the steel rust through? I think it would last for quite a few years, though. I guess aluminum would be even better, although more costly than steel. 
Ron, isn't the backer board harsh on saw blades? I would think it would work for a few cuts before being dulled to the point of no return! 
Kris


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

16 gauge steel painted will last longer than most people keep a garden railroad, yes aluminum will last almost forever 
Dennis


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Styrofoam will last almost forever. Give it a coating of DryLock hydraulic cement and it probably will.

Yeah, I use pavers, real poured concrete, tile, etc., but this is my newest method.









You can buy sheets of styrofoam at crafts stores, but much cheaper at home improvement centers in 4' x 8' sheets. Get a tub of DryLock hydraulic cement, a plastic trough (or something) to work in, a strainer, and a spray bottle with water set to mist.

Cut a piece of styrofoam to the shape you want. Shape features,( e.g., a ramp) you would like into it using yellow glue to build up pieces, electric sander, file, electric knife, etc. An electric sander gives the styrofoam a nice smooth finish, but its not necessary.

When done, sift the dry cement right onto the surface. You can brush it into any low points, gouges, glue lines, etc., then give it an overall sift. Take your time and do it until you aree satisfied with the finish because this is how it will appear. Because it is dry, there is no hurry. (Drylock actually sets up in minutes and can be used to seal holes in masonry underwater.) Mist it with water. If you have standing water, sift a little more on. Repeat as desired for thickness/strength (if necessary). To do the sides, hold/position the sheet so that it is horizontal and do the same.

Couldn't be easier or cleaner and it is REAL CEMENT.


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

My first choice would be patio blocks. Second would be porcelain tiles. Third, the above sculptured Styrofoam, anchored down. The following is a platform I had built using original HardieBoard. The newer stuff seems better but it is still a press laminated fiber cement board. Becareful of the Transite which IS asbestos cement board!!! Just DON'T CUT IT!!



















I leaned on it.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, that is the kicker about the Transite, otherwise the stuff holds up forever. The guy that ownes it is CSP and I am an AHERA accredited Asbestos Building Inspector, so we had a good laugh over his collection of the stuff!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, I just remembered, go back and read in the April 1972 issue of Model Railroader about what Charles S. Small used for his buildings and his comment about going through saw blades...... 

The LGB technical guides from the 1980s also suggest using cementitious asbestos planks for roadbed.


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## Richard Weatherby (Jan 3, 2008)

Somebody can always find fault with good products and lawyers will profit.


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

Kris, there are jig saw blades made to cut this stuff. They are not the usual blades. 
Ron


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## Dansgscale (Jan 9, 2010)

What Material is your buildings made out of? I am working on a few buildings and they are made out of Sintra, (i.e. Komatex among other names) Once painted and clearcoated with UV resistent clearcoat they will sit right on the ground. I don't think there will be any probem with them, as the Sintra is water proof and so is the glue. Has anyone done it this way? Oh I'm is South Texas. 

Dan S.


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## deeredaze (Mar 10, 2008)

Toddalin, thats an interesting way to make a base. How do you anchor the structure to it though, being styrofoam underneath the cement? 

Ron, where do you get the jig saw blades from? Locally, like Lowes or someplace? Are the for masonary then? 

Richard, how many years did it take for the Hardiboard to look like that? 

Dan, most everything will be wood of some kind ,like cedar or redwood. What in the world is Sintra or Kometex? I guess not having a base would save some time! 

Kris


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By deeredaze on 05 Apr 2010 09:46 PM 
Toddalin, thats an interesting way to make a base. How do you anchor the structure to it though, being styrofoam underneath the cement? 

Ron, where do you get the jig saw blades from? Locally, like Lowes or someplace? Are the for masonary then? 

Richard, how many years did it take for the Hardiboard to look like that? 

Dan, most everything will be wood of some kind ,like cedar or redwood. What in the world is Sintra or Kometex? I guess not having a base would save some time! 

Kris 

Structure just sits on it. You could put holes for dowels/screws and your lighting. Seems like you could even do a little heavy sifting around some moulding placed on the pad that's the shape of the structure, Then pull the molding once dry and set the structure in place and it would look like it was cemented in-place.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Kris, you can buy the jig-saw blades at any hardware/big box store. They have no teeth, are impregnated with abrasive material and are made for cutting masonry. 

Take care, 
Matt


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## stardust39 (Mar 25, 2009)

Although you don't want to pour concrete, Kris, I hope you don't mind if I jump into your topic and show how a complete novice went at some concrete bases for my buildings. My reasons for concrete are:

1- prototypical
2- frost heave can be a problem in central Indiana
3 - a desire to do something I had never done

If not educational,these vignettes may at least have some entertainment value:

The Station
The Farm House
The Barn
The Yard Office

Enjoy,


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## deeredaze (Mar 10, 2008)

Toddalin, you're right. I guess the structure only needs to be pinned in place so it can't be blown away in the wind! 

Matt, I guess I've never really looked for those blades before. I'll have to pay more attention next time! 

David, thanks for jumping in! Its not that I don't want to pour concrete, I just wondered if there was something a little easier than building custom forms for each building. You're idea seems to work out well. I like the stone foundation for that barn and how its all tied together! How is it holding up? 

Kris


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## stardust39 (Mar 25, 2009)

_"Posted By deeredaze on 06 Apr 2010 06:51 PM 

David, thanks for jumping in! Its not that I don't want to pour concrete, I just wondered if there was something a little easier than building custom forms for each building. Your idea seems to work out well. I like the stone foundation for that barn and how its all tied together! How is it holding up? 

Kris"_ 


Hi Kris, The barn has been outside for 8 months, through a hot summer and a pretty tough central Indiana winter and has lost a few pebbles but doing quite well overall. Since I am a big fan of natural materials and actual weathering, I will be happy with any level of aging short of total collapse.

The Barn on March 15, 2010.

Regards,


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

With the two curves and various levels and ramps, this area was a PITA to cast in concrete/topped with mortar and would have been so much easier to do just cutting the shape out of styroafoam and sifting the cement on top.

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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

Todd, are you talking about polystyrene foam? Not the beaded kind, but the pure foam board like the blue board from Dow Chemical or pink board from Owens Corning? This is the kind of foam used on the outside of building covered with drivet. Is this what you are talking about? The stuff makes good props but I figured it would not hold up outside.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Ron Hill on 08 Apr 2010 09:05 PM 
Todd, are you talking about polystyrene foam? Not the beaded kind, but the pure foam board like the blue board from Dow Chemical or pink board from Owens Corning? This is the kind of foam used on the outside of building covered with drivet. Is this what you are talking about? The stuff makes good props but I figured it would not hold up outside. 


I'm talking about good old, white styrofoam that comes in all the packing boxes that your trains are shipped in and people drink coffee out of. You can buy 4'x8' sheets in various thickness at home improvement stores for use as insullation or... When you sand it, it takes the surface to a smooth finish, not that that really matters once you sift cement over it. Even untreated it lasts for many, many years if protected from UV and will probably be here long after we're all gone.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

Use WonderBoard, available in the tile section at HD or Lowes, comes in 1/4 or 1/2" thick. I've had buildings sitting on the stuff for over 10 years, no issues. 

HardiBacker is sold for a similar purpose (tile backing) but it doesn't hold up as well when constantly wet. 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips7/wonderboard_tips.html


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

Has anyone used plywood painted with deck paint? I've used the deck paint for some wood bridge work and it seems to hold pretty good. This is the first year that I have tried it as building bases. The buildings will come inside during the winter, but stay out from April till November. If anyone has already experimented with Deck Paint and Plywood, I would be interested in hearing the long term results. 










Regards,
Mark


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I used 3/8" PVC board, got it from TAP Plastics (buildings forum sponsor). It's been out all year for 2 years, still looking great.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I've never had any _long-term_ luck with using plywood outside. Usually ends up looking like a roller coaster after a few years. But my buildings sit out from May-Oct and many get watered twice daily.


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

Todd, I know what you are talking about. Have you ever tried the polystyrene foam for outside use? It is used for indoor model railroads a lot because it can shaped with a wood rasp or foam hot wire. I used it down at the local railroad museum I help operate to make a lake. The stuff is great! It come from local hardware stores also and can be purchase in 4'X8' sheet from 1/2" to 4" thick.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Ron Hill on 09 Apr 2010 09:34 PM 
Todd, I know what you are talking about. Have you ever tried the polystyrene foam for outside use? It is used for indoor model railroads a lot because it can shaped with a wood rasp or foam hot wire. I used it down at the local railroad museum I help operate to make a lake. The stuff is great! It come from local hardware stores also and can be purchase in 4'X8' sheet from 1/2" to 4" thick. 

I've not tried polystyrene. Styrofoam comes the same way and is readily available in our area at Lowes. I buy sheets for shipping vintage JBLs and sometimes just use the left over pieces on the railroad. I imagine either will last forever if coated.


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## White Deer RR (May 15, 2009)

Just today I re-purposed an old rectangular baking stone that had been retired from the bbq. Turned out it was perfect for an Aristo farmhouse, being a little big larger, and will help protect it from mud splatter from non-scale raindrops. This is the third life for the baking stone, as after its life as a pizza making tool, it plugged a hole in the fence for a few months where the dog decided to eat the bottom of a cedar board one day. And speaking of the dog, I also used some scrap PVC pipe to bury the track to pack wires this year. ;-) 

Still looking for that one passenger that went missing last summer. Dogs. 

I also like the cheap charcoal colored pavers for bases, where I live they are usually called "rustic cobblestone" or some such, and are sold for about $1.25. But my layout is easy--only three buildings at this point. Station, farmhouse and a small dry goods store I built out of popsicle (craft) sticks. The latter is on borrowed time as it will likely not hold up the season, but it was fun to make. I swear someday I'm going to get an Eagle Wings building and see if the labrador retriever can eat that.


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

A wood like substance like Trex will work in the dirt. Won't rot, and it cuts and drills just like wood. Jut don't try to make a raft of it!


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

I use roofing shingles for bases. The shingles also can serve as roadways [looks like asphault depending on color]. 

JimC.


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## deeredaze (Mar 10, 2008)

Jim, 
Ahhh! Good idea, to use up all those old shingles that don't match anything else. I'll have to remember that one. 

Dick, 
I didn't think about using Trex. That sounds even better to me. Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't want to build a raft out of it either! 

Kris


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## Ross (Jul 19, 2009)

on the other hand...... 

You could use the odd 12" x 12" shower wall tiles. Very often they can be found cheaply in the oddments stall at tiling suppliers. Use as is or cut to size. Just turn the smooth side down and paint the other side. Silicon adhesive the model structure to the base ...stops the wind blowing the model about.


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