# Help with Aristo Craft Switch machines



## noela (May 22, 2008)

This may be a bit convoluted, but I am getting set to do a project, and need some technical help.

It will involve using both the "snap" version of the remote switch machine, and the slow-motion version.

I am looking for information on the power for these units (volts, amps, etc.) In all probability there will be several points where it will be necessary to pair up switches to fire together (with the same motors, not mixed snap and slow motion). I am looking to build a panel for controlling quite a few of these units, and using either DPDT or SPDT (on)-off-(on) toggle switches, leaning more towards the SPST version. I would also prefer using mini toggles. This would be an outside application, but the switches would be in a waterproof enclosure.

From my research, which is probably not complete, it looks as if I will need a 16-24 vac supply, but not sure of the current rating, so I will need help with that (the power supply will be housed in an enclosed structure, and I will be running the low voltage wires to the control panel, which will be approximately 75 feet away, not sure of wire size needed). Again, from what I have been able to glean, I will need to get diodes (I think they have to be rectifier diodes) so that the ac can be changed to dc for the machines to operate. Again, I am not clear on this concept either. I am unsure as to how I determine what diodes I will need (current rating/part number) to make the change.

I have seen a couple of wiring diagrams, but was wondering if there are any updated ones.

Is there any source for all of this information?

Needless to say, I am grateful for any suggestions and/or direction.

Thank you


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

First, I would use toggles without center off. This way the position of the toggle can indicate the direction of the turnout. 

Second, you need to determine the exact models you want to run, so you can determine what is needed in terms of voltage and current. 

Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Hi Greg,

As always, I appreciate your information.

The client has a bunch of the old style "snap" switch machines, as well as the slow motion machines (all from Aristo-Craft). In all probability, there will be additional projects involving switches on this layout, but the first one will probably use the snap versions (with the possible exception of one of the slow motion machines being used). All of the switches in this job are completely visible. They will all be fired singularly, with the exception of a crossover, where both motors would be fired at the same time, from the same controller. There will be a total of 9 switches being controlled from this panel (the crossover counts as only one switch).

I refer too the following diagram:
Turnout Motor Controls







The Aristo turnout motor has five connections as shown in the diagram. The motor can be operated from Aristo's control that comes with the turnout, or it can be operated from an LGB control box or you can wire your own as shown below. The Aristo control box is a little flaky, for the short time that I used them, several became intermittent or completely crapped out.







If you want to wire your own turnout controls, use one of these diagrams, either configuration will work. The LGB switch box will control 4 turnouts but is horribly expensive. The Aristo control box controls one turnout and is generally unreliable. Both of these run on AC input power, the internal diode converts the AC to DC to run the motors. The top one uses a slightly more expensive switch, the bottom one uses multiple diodes. I prefer the bottom circuit which is also the guts of the LGB switch box and the Aristo switch box. In both cases the switches need to be momentary center-off. You'll find the switches designated:
DPDT (on)-off-(on) SPDT (on)-off-(on) [ Top ]If you'll notice, they refer to SPDT and DPDT center off switches, with momentary ons, but they also show diodes in the circuit, which is one of my concerns, which diodes do I need? With the snap switch, what will happen to the effectiveness of the slide contacts within the machine itself? If I use an AC power supply, with a feed line that will be approximately 75' to the control panel, and at most, 7' to the farthest switch machine, what size wire will I need to control the I/R drop. I would use a 24 vac power supply, but what should my output be rated at?

Can I use the 24vac source for both the snap and slow motion machines. I do not know the ratings of the two different switch machines, but would need that info, and I would have to allow for a safety factor. I would circuit protect the power supply feed, probably at 1.5x max draw.

Again, thank you for your help. Any other thoughts and suggestions are really appreciated.

Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The snap action switches use a momentary pulse of power, and do not require (or appreciate!) power after moving. The Aristo slow motion units need power applied for a longer time, until the movement is complete, and then there are internal contacts to disable power until the direction is reversed. 

The bottom 2 diagrams run the switch motors on "half wave dc", basically a trick to allow a toggle switch with fewer contacts. The diagram with the DPDT switch works with either DC or AC... the diagram with the 2 diodes shows the way to have a switch with fewer contacts. 

Trying to use the same switches for both types of switch motors presents a bigger problem. One way would be to use a circuit to provide the momentary function and then you could use SPDT switches for both types of switch motors. 

But, back to how I responded first. 

Let me help: 

1. Use spdt switches, and the bottom diagram for the "slow motion" motors, and SPDT center off momentary switches for the snap action. This is simple to wire, cheapest, but now you have 2 radically different ways to operate switches mixed on the panel..... this is where I think the confusion is.... I would not recommend this solution, it will be inconvenient, and just poor user interface. 

2. come up with a method to allow the same type of toggle switch for both types of switch motor. This will be the nicest solution for the user, but the most expensive and complicated. I don't recommend it unless money is no object. Why go to all that hassle for only 9 switches. 

3. use all the same type of switch motor, and use then either all center off momentary or spdt toggles... depending on the type of switch motor selected. I would convert all switches to the slow motion motors, and use SPDT toggles and then all the switches are the same, and the toggle indicates the current direction of the switch. This, for only 9 switches is the least costly, most reliable, easiest to maintain and understand. 

Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Thanks again Greg,

The user wants the flexibility of being able to throw some of the switches manually, which can't be done with the slow motion machines. I also think it's a matter of economics, he wants to use what he has, rather than go out and spend more.

From what you have said, I could use all SPDT switches, but not have center off units for the slow motion units. This way they would look similar, and when identified properly, should not create any issues. This way, the momentary switches could be used for the snap switches and the on-on switches could be used for the slow motion machines. I could still use the same 16-24vac power supply for both, right? I would have to rectify the ac to the snap switches, but not the slow motion, right? Herein lies my next question, how do I determine which rectifier diodes to use on the snap switch circuit? I have been trying to find out what the current draw is on the snap switches, but haven't had much luck. I would want to make sure that I have sufficient power to fire them, as well as making sure that I can protect the circuit from overload. Do you have any idea of the current draw on the snap switches? Same problem with the slow motion machines, any idea of the current draw on them?

Once I can determine the power requirements, I can create the power supply needed, as well as calculate the I/R drop from the power supply to the panel and the machines (close to 75'). I would probably use 18 gauge wire from the AC source, but could also use 16 gauge. Don't think that I would need 14 gauge. Your thoughts on wire size? 

Thanks again.
Noel


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The Aristo slow motion switches use DC.

The snap switches can use either I believe, consult the manual.

you won't pull more than an amp, so 1n4001 diodes from radio shack will be fine, but you can buy 3 amps ones if you want to bulletproof. May be a moot point if your switches use DC.

For the slow motion, you can put a full wave bridge on the supply to convert to dc.

75 foot is a bit of distance. I would not go 18 gauge, 16 will most likely be fine. I don't risk stuff, so I personally would overkill on 14, BUT, just get some wire, and test a 75' length first.

Greg


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## noela (May 22, 2008)

Thank you again, now to find the manuals.

Noel


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