# Where are USA Trains Products manufactured? China obviously.......



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, that's what I and everyone I spoke to thought.

USA Trains started as Charles Ro Trains back in 1988 with a few box cars manufactured in the US and when they introduced their first locomotives in 1995, those were made in China and in the late 90's all the production was supposedly moved to China and has been there since - until recently at Sanda Kan and now with another Chinese manufacturer.


Turns out to my surprise that this is not true. 

The USA Trains "American Series" of products that started USA Trains has always been manufactured in the USA and is still today being manufactured in the US.
That includes the wood-sided reefers, outside braced box cars, various flat cars, the Work Train series - anything classified as an "American Series" product.


Maybe everyone on mls knew that but it was sure news to me.

Knut


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

ok, so where in the USA are they built or are the parts made in China and assembled in the USA?


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 24 Mar 2012 05:53 PM 
....The USA Trains "American Series" of products that started USA Trains has always been manufactured in the USA and is still today being manufactured in the US. That includes the wood-sided reefers, outside braced box cars, various flat cars, the Work Train series - anything classified as an "American Series" product...

Knut 



If this is true, USAT made the WORST marketing decision ever in history....by not letting us know. My son's business just moved all production BACK to the US from China...and sales are going through the roof because it's "Made in America".


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I agree with you Mike re your comment about USAT Marketing Decision 
I couldn't believe it when I first heard it but this information came from Charles Ro directly to a direct question to him about the country of manufacture. 
Thje USAT boxes of the American Series rolling stock say "Made in USA", it's also molded into the bottom of the car chassis where it is manufactured, but every one I know just assumed the boxes and mold had never been changed. 
What would interest me now is where the idea comes from that these molds and production were moved to China because they never ever left the US. 
Just to be absolutely clear - only the "American Series" is made in the US, the locos and Ultimate and Prestige series are not. 

And Randy, to answer your question, the cars are manufactured in the US, not just assembled here - major parts of the car are molded in the US by an outside company, the graphics are applied by USA Trains in the US. 

Knut


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

This seems to me to be correct. The American series has always been marked made in The USA. I first thought it was old stock, made years ago. But we are getting new paint schemes coming in with the cars and boxes marked made in USA. These are also the least expensive cars available from USA Trains. They do however have plastic wheels.


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

This news should have leaked years ago. Since it hasn't, and no one seems to know where the plant is, I doubt the origin of manufacturing.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's great that something seems to be made here in the US.... unfortunately, it is the 1:24 line, and it is lower detailed, plastic wheels, and nothing new developed. They just keep re-issuing the same cars in different paint schemes... the reefer that is. 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

So if Chinese production is so much cheaper, why are these not more expensive? I have a couple of cars from this line, and yes as Greg says, less detail. But they're nice enough and the outside braced boxcar is the only one in large scale. 

Aristo's boxcars have roughly the same level of detail, and plastic wheels, but cost more--even thought they are mad ein China. 

I suppose it's because the mold costs were long ago amortized?


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

I doubt it has anything to do with the mold costs being paid for long ago. Many of the Aristo products would fall under the same catagory. 

As for the USA trains "American Series", this is good news to me. 1/24th is just fine for me. I decided some time ago that purchases of "new" items would be made in the USA. This expands my choices. I am no longer limited to HLW. 
Ralph


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Ralph, 
I agreee, I just spent 20 minutes looking at the outside braced box cars and reefers, the work trains and such. Should my health and pocketbook improve I can see some USA aditions. The Virginia And Truckee could be an easy to adapt V and TW.... 

I'm guessing on older contracts supplying the demand, instead of open to the next bidder each year, for lower prices. 

John


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By jebouck on 25 Mar 2012 08:50 AM 
This news should have leaked years ago. Since it hasn't, and no one seems to know where the plant is, I doubt the origin of manufacturing. 
What specifically came from Charles Ro is this:

The American Series rolling stock bodies are made by a outside source in the USA. Charles Ro Supply does paint them, pad print them, assemble them and box them up "In House" at Charles Ro Supply.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, if this is all true, then it's a sad state of afairs in that USAT and Aristo aren't having 1:29th scale box cars and such made in the USA. 

How can a 1:29th scale box car cost any more than a 1/24th scale wooden box cars of USA's. 

Molds wear out and have to be replaced every so often so so the cost of molds have nothing to do with it. 

As for detail, I think the MDC cars have all the detail I need and I'm sure other feel the same way. 

For those that want more detail, they can either add the detail they want to the cars or buy more expensive cars to begin with.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

My PRR GP7/9 is marked "Made in USA" I posted a picture here a while back. Of course I bought it a long time ago...


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

"Molds wear out and have to be replaced every so often so so the cost of molds have nothing to do with it."

Thank you, thank you Randy! This has been a contentious point for me for years. I'm a mold and die maker by trade, although retired. There ARE moldmakers in this country to repair and resink old molds. Not a big deal, but it is constantly being used for the excuse to manufacture in China!


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Posted By krs on 25 Mar 2012 08:06 AM 
I couldn't believe it when I first heard it but this information came from Charles Ro directly to a direct question to him about the country of manufacture. 
Thje USAT boxes of the American Series rolling stock say "Made in USA", it's also molded into the bottom of the car chassis where it is manufactured, but every one I know just assumed the boxes and mold had never been changed.


Knut 





Hi Knut,

Great information. Thanks for posting it.

I too noticed the MADE IN USA on several of my USA rolling stock freight cars but I assumed they were old stock and when I checked a few USA boxes I did not even notice any Made in USA marking on the boxes. Since I have some similar LGB MADE IN USA rolling stock I had assumed both to be "Pre-China" (or for LGB "Pre-Germany") production.

Since the larger 1:29 rolling stock looks too large and too modern for me behind LGB Moguls and Forneys, USA lost a fair amount of business because I would have purchased MADE IN USA - USAT rolling stock rather than LGB - MADE IN GERMANY/WESTERN GERMANY. I may like the LGB stuff somewhat more but overall I consider them pretty much equal and it would have been enough to get me to buy USAT.

I am actually surprised to see that the American Series is labeled 1:24 as I would have guessed it to have been 1:22.5. At times I have wondered if the USA MADE LGB and USAT products were made by the same company as they seem almost too identical for them not to have been.

This hobby does not surprise me much anymore but this was really amazing to me. Its as if it has been some sort of insider secret. 

I think this has been a significant marketing error but then its Charlie's money and I suspect he probably had a good reason.

Jerry


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

While on the who dun it page, consider this ... 

I have grain hoppers - 3 kinds, each made by : USA Trains, LGB , AMS 

All "appear" to have come from the "SAME" molds for much of the detail parts. Very interesting to look at. And I try not to speculate how this might have come about..... 

Dirk 
DMS Ry.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gary Armitstead on 25 Mar 2012 03:28 PM 
"Molds wear out and have to be replaced every so often so so the cost of molds have nothing to do with it."

Thank you, thank you Randy! This has been a contentious point for me for years. I'm a mold and die maker by trade, although retired. There ARE moldmakers in this country to repair and resink old molds. Not a big deal, but it is constantly being used for the excuse to manufacture in China!











Gary...I think the real question should be...who owns the molds? It seems to me that when the production of LS stuff moved to China...so did the design work, which was done under contract to the US companies. From the design shops came designs...which moved to either mold making companies...or plastic production companies which often have their own mold makers. 

My son ran a plastics business with plants in the US and in China and who owned the "intellectual property" was the big issue...and that often revolved around who owned the molds....because if the molds were NOT listed as deliverables on a contract, they weren't owned by the company making the order for the end item.


Personally, I think the American "LS train companies" do very little design...and contract it all out to plastic toy companies in China. How else could Aristo run with only 7 employees?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry:

If your USA cars say 1:24 that is correct for the length. I have measured LGB, USA, and Delton narrow gauge (30') freight cars. They are all very close to 1:24. None are any where near 1:22.5. 


I did the measurements several years ago when I was puzzled as to why my "1:22.5" LGB cars look fine with my 1:24 cars, but they really looked small behind my Bachmann Connie. My thinking was that a 10% difference between the LGB, USA cars (thought to be 1:22.5) at the time and the known 1:24 Delton cars didn't cause me a visual headache. Therefore, I thought that the 10% difference between the 1:22.5 LGB cars and the Connie wouldn't matter. It did. The USA, LGB cars looked very small and way out of scale. The measurements said that they were 20% different, not 10%.


Chuck


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

I've always known that the USAT American Series were made in the USA, I just figured everyone knew it. they are not of the same quality as the cars made in china. but they are decent cars for the money. Hartland is the only manufacturer that is exclusively made and designed in the U.s.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Good point Mike. 

I wonder what sort of answer you would get from the USA Co's to a direct question as to who actually "owns" the tooling? 
Probably mind your own business, which is fair enough. Nevertheless, if the tooling ever leaves China and goes somewhere else, say back to the USA, that would be a certain answer. 
If it doesn't leave China, then who knows.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Dunno Tony...but somewhere back in the foggy part of my memory, I recall a story about what happened to the the Kalamazoo and Delton molds...and that one company got half of em and another company got the other half of them. As I recall...the Kalamazoo and Delton stuff was all 1/24th...well, it was the original if-it-looks-OK-with-LGB-it's-OK scale stuff which, in the golden days of GRRing, was when folks weren't worried about scale.

Is it possible that these USA cars are involved in the Kalamazoo or Delton mold passing history?


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

Delton was split in 2. !/2 went to Aristo Craft the other 1/2 is now Hartland Locomotive Works. I don't know what happened to Kalamazoo


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Robby;


I wish Aristo would sell the freight car molds to HLW, since Aristo are no longer interested in providing those cars themselves. The Delton freight cars were really nice, and probably HLW could sell enough of them to keep some production going.
Delton also made the Lionel LS cars and locomotives. I wonder whether Lionel kept those molds? I really liked their shorty gondolas. And the shorty flat cars were nicely bashable into low "two board" gondolas.










Yours,
David Meashey


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