# Musings of a newbie to the live steam hobby.



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I recently had a conversation with someone who let me know that apparently there are those who frequent this forum both as lurkers and active contributors that some are bothered by my "research" and my journey to find a live steam engine. First, let me just say that it never was my intentions to ruin your day, but obviously I have enough so that some found it necessary to talk about it when gathered at live steam events. Hey, nothing I can do about that and in the end it really doesn't matter as due to my job I won't see most of these people in my lifetime anyway. (I won't be able to attend too many steam ups, so for those who I bother, don't worry, you won't have to meet me in person.)

Money to me is more than just something to put down on a new engine and forget about. That is the reason I "researched to death" before making my decision. Guess what. I am totally happy with the Aster Mike even despite its issues with things not being threaded or parts totally missing altogether and not just a simple screw.


So for those who simply can't stand that I actually had the nerve to choose wisely what would best fit my wants in terms of fuel, engine type and manufacturer, I am sorry you feel that way. Look on the bright side. At least some of you had something to talk about on your recent steam up gatherings. 

I don't need any replies, but I know those who have a problem with these things can read this here and perhaps it will make a difference and perhaps not, but at least you may have a better understanding how I chose a live steam locomotive. 

No hard feelings from my end.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad to see you're not letting it bother you Jeremiah. In every group there will be those grumpy few with a "my way or the highway" attitude. I have been to quite a few steamups and, fortunately, the vast majority of live steam enthusiasts are friendly, helpful, and all-around good people who take pleasure in talking about their latest projects, sharing what they have learned, exchanging information, and helping out the new guy coming into the hobby. 

The whole purpose of this forum is encapsulated in my last sentence, so there is nothing wrong at all with what you've done. You have, to my knowledge, asked good intelligent questions, been unfailingly courteous and friendly to all, and used the forum to good advantage for the purposes it was created and continues to exist. 

Glad you're happy with your choice. Good job. And do try and get out to some steamups as the opportunity arises. Building and running live steam locomotives is a real pleasure. Hanging out for a few hours with others of like mind and interests is equally enjoyable.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks Dwight. I appreciate those sentiments. I hope you have as much fun with your Reno as I think I will with my Mikado. My 1 1/2 year old son just saw the Chassis with the boiler, smokebox and cab on for a test fit and he was ecstatic.


----------



## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I bet when Jeremiah becomes a "Pro" at all this stuff he will voice out and help others just as much lol. 


People bring there emotions to the internet for some reason. ("out of context" is entirely too common on the net)


You can't judge the tone of someone stating there opinion in text on a forum, once you meet Jeremiah (as I have) you'll find out hes a great guy and just wants to learn,have fun and is a bit excited about the whole hobby!


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope you have as much fun with your Reno as I think I will with my Mikado.Thanks Jeremiah. It'll probably be Labor Day before I really get a chance to try her. As I said before, alcohol firing is a whole new animal to me, as is a loco with slip eccentrics. However, I've had a whale of a good time with my other locomotives (all butane fired) since I got into live steam somewhere around 2002. And almost everything I've learned I learned right here by asking questions or reading the answers to questions posted by others.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeremiah,

Those of us in the "live steam fraternity" (some sorority), are always looked upon as kind of "kookie". "Now why would ANYONE want to spend a day getting filthy with steam oil and coal dust just to have a little fun?" My wife would always ask me that question when I arrived home from a great day of running at Los Angeles Live Steamers. 

I came into this unique group in 1979, when I started to build my 1 1/2" Allen Ten-wheeler. My Dad's business partner and I built two ten-wheelers and then he bought another engine (Allen Mogul) to have for us to run while we were building our 4-6-0's. I built my first live steamer while in junior high school, back in 1956....a Little Engines side tank 0-4-0 switcher, 1" scale! Learned an awful lot on that little engine, machining my own castings, reading blueprints and working out problems that always seem to show up in these magnificent machines.

BTW, my avatar to the left is me running the Allen Mogul at Goleta Valley Railroad Club, in the hills of Montecito, near Santa Barbara. What a railroad that was!!!!!!!

I guess sometime soon, I'm going to have to get one of these little guys to run around my new layout in the yard. Don't listen to the nay-sayers about researching for your new locomotive. You have done well and keep us posted on your build.


----------



## Charles M (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeremiah, 

Welcome to the live steam side of things, hope you can find a group to interact with. Running with friends and conversing is a major part of the fun too. If you were closer to us, you would be welcome to come join us. We have a great group and activily seek new members to join us. Questions are welcomed and encouraged. Our newest member is starting his steam expericence at the age of 12. He has a Wilesco stationary engine , and hopes to get a steam locomotive in the future . ( With Dad and Mom's approval of course.) He is coming to our steam up this weekend to watch, learn and run . 

DGRS Steam Up August 13th-14th at the Colorado Railroad Museum 9AM to 5 PM both days. 

Charles M SA #74


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

some are bothered by my "research" and my journey to find a live steam engine 
I'd love to know what they were 'bothered' about? Nobody forced them to read it, after all!


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks. 
Pete, I believe it basically had to do with my going back and fourth between the Accucraft K4 and the Accucraft/gauge1model company Britannia. The first, no one really knew much about since it STILL is not out yet. As to the second I was given advice from 2 sides. One saying that a newcomer such as I could NEVER run the Britannia and that I would mess it up. The Other side said while a rather touchy loco, with some practice it would be fine. One hand, I prefer alcohol to butane firing in theory. I know there are pros and cons to both firing methods, but that is how I felt after researching both firing methods and seeing both in action. So that is why I leaned more towards the Britannia. Both engines are ones I like. Then there was the aspect that getting coaches for the Britannia would be a bit tougher. 
When I first got into this hobby, the aspect of building an engine from a kit is what really pulled me in. I was just very fortunate to have located a Mikado kit and am very happy with my decision. I believe my journey might have rubbed some people the wrong way as I can't really take everyone's advice and I know each would have liked me to go with "their" recommendations. I understand and can see where toes were stepped on in an unintentional way. 

So, that is about the gist of it. As I already said, I am picky with details, but funny I ended up getting one of Asters less detailed engines and am very pleased with it.


----------



## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

My fathers first engine was the Accucraft K-28 which is pretty detailed, because of this, some details are now missing. Starting with an engine with a little bit less detail (less to break off) to learn on is ideal lol.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Andrew, you are right about that. I could see where slowing down an engine by hand if it happened to get going a bit faster than you prefer might cause some re-imagining of the detail parts.


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

and that I would mess it up
From a practical perspective, I wonder what you have to do to 'mess it up'. 

These things are steel and brass. No-one around here has ever reported destroying one! [Well, one or two got dropped on the floor, and maybe the rest were too embarrassed?] But I've run my engines (Accu - no Asters yet) with too little water so the flue had to be exposed; with flame pouring out of the smokebox, and even without oiling them every run. I don't think I ever ran without steam oil, but even if I did, what's the worst that can happen? 
(That latter phrase came courtesy of my parents - great advice.) Come on guys - what's the worst that a newcomer could to to the "Britannia" ?


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Well... I have to respond to that "what's the worst" question... I have to select my words very carefully here because I still have the possibility of interacting with the person I am about to tattle on... He is a fine gentleman and... well... I think I will omit his profession, but I KNOW he is good at it... 

BUT... I have seen the result of a live steam locomotive constructed by him and it was, to say the best... Oh! how can I say this respectfully... SAD? ... And this was NOT an expensive, difficult to assemble engine! I can only guess that the problem was one of using the wrong tools without regard to the damage they would do FORCING things to fit.

I think that is why sites like this one are a great help... We always encourage the newcomer, but admonish them to take their time and to verify their understanding of the instructions if something seems amiss.

So..., "what's the worst that a newcomer could to to the "Britannia" ?" Oh, the things I can think of! AAARRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 12 Aug 2011 03:26 PM 
and that I would mess it up
From a practical perspective, I wonder what you have to do to 'mess it up'. 

These things are steel and brass. No-one around here has ever reported destroying one! 
WELL, I guess that I will once again have to show 'the' photo of the Aster NYC Hudson that I purchased after the owner certainly did his best to destroy it!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

* Jeremiah, you just have to let it run off you like the way things run off a ducks back. If you heard that some folks were talking negative about you at a steam up, well..............that's their problem. I can honestly say that at our Steam up last week Art and I were taking about your thread here and agreed that we are impressed with what you have done. Now realize, I have screwed up every way that you can screw up in this hobby. You also have to learn to laugh at yourself sometimes too. Please keep posting. Don't let a few grumps ruin your day.*


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Ouch David ! How far was the fall? I got a little sick to my stomach when I saw that. Well I feel a bit better knowing she is in good hands now. 

Jeremiah, I think one big variable people don't and can't quantify for is mechanical aptitude. Some lie to them selves and claim they have it when they don't know what a screwdriver is. Other have tons of potential but never take a first step out of fear. I don't know which is worse. You can't get much of a feel from reading a few postings on the net where exactly an individual is, so of course you get some conflicting advise. I think you made a fine decision and I'm very happy for you. (and I'm a little green with envy too) We joined this forum about the same time and I've never read an offensive word that you wrote. Remember it's your hobby, have fun with it your way! Cant wait to see some video of your Mike running.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 12 Aug 2011 03:26 PM 
and that I would mess it up
From a practical perspective, I wonder what you have to do to 'mess it up'. 

These things are steel and brass. No-one around here has ever reported destroying one! [Well, one or two got dropped on the floor, and maybe the rest were too embarrassed?] But I've run my engines (Accu - no Asters yet) with too little water so the flue had to be exposed; with flame pouring out of the smokebox, and even without oiling them every run. I don't think I ever ran without steam oil, but even if I did, what's the worst that can happen? 
(That latter phrase came courtesy of my parents - great advice.) Come on guys - what's the worst that a newcomer could to to the "Britannia" ? 

Paint it up in New York Central.

tac


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 12 Aug 2011 09:32 PM 
Posted By Pete Thornton on 12 Aug 2011 03:26 PM 
and that I would mess it up
From a practical perspective, I wonder what you have to do to 'mess it up'. 

These things are steel and brass. No-one around here has ever reported destroying one! 
WELL, I guess that I will once again have to show 'the' photo of the Aster NYC Hudson that I purchased after the owner certainly did his best to destroy it!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada










That'll buff out.

tac


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

How far was the fall? 
I did sorta exclude dropping it! 

Paint it up in New York Central 
ROFL. Now that I hadn't thought of. But it might look good - where's my Photoshop....


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

* David, how could you have posted a picture like that without sufficient warning. Do you not know what a photo like that does to an Aster Snob like myself ?? Every time I shut my eyes now I see that image. I'm sure that I will see it in my dreams tonight like a horrible nightmare. How could something like this have ever happened ? Maybe to a lowly Mamod..........but not an Aster.........I have to go now and do my breathing therapy to try and get over this.*


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 12 Aug 2011 09:37 PM 
*Jeremiah, you just have to let it run off you like the way things run off a ducks back. If you heard that some folks were talking negative about you at a steam up, well..............that's their problem. I can honestly say that at our Steam up last week Art and I were taking about your thread here and agreed that we are impressed with what you have done. Now realize, I have screwed up every way that you can screw up in this hobby. You also have to learn to laugh at yourself sometimes too. Please keep posting. Don't let a few grumps ruin your day.* 

I can't believe he chose an Aster over Accucraft. You guys have brain washed him already.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

How could something like this have ever happened ? Maybe to a lowly Mamod..........but not an Aster.........It being an Aster and all, I'm astonished that it would even dent.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I really appreciate all the nice words guys. I honestly wasn't trying to create a thread to get kudos. Thanks though. Makes me feel a lot better after that rather unpleasant conversation yesterday. I do have to just let it roll of my back though like you said Steve. 

I think I'll quietly bow out if my Mikado looks like that NY Hudson after a few runs. I remember reading the story behind that NY Hudson David. Quite the story.


----------



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By iceclimber on 13 Aug 2011 09:12 AM 
I really appreciate all the nice words guys. I honestly wasn't trying to create a thread to get kudos. Thanks though. Makes me feel a lot better after that rather unpleasant conversation yesterday. I do have to just let it roll of my back though like you said Steve. 

I think I'll quietly bow out if my Mikado looks like that NY Hudson after a few runs. I remember reading the story behind that NY Hudson David. Quite the story. 
Jeremiah
I wish we had pics of the day I wound up on my Kister with the Aster S-2 in my hands fully steamed up when I fell Steamin at Steve's a couple of years ago. The S-2 probably has more detail on it, as Jeff can atteste to, and it had not even a scratch on it. I felt a little pain but the engine was none for the worse.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Art, 
That would make for a good picture. Reminds me of when we were kids. We'd be more concerned about how our bikes looked after a wreck then our own well being.


----------



## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

BTW , I somehow know how you felt about being talked about. My ears burn all the time when I have been Steamin and the guys talk about the ole Fart.


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks. 
I guess if these people had actually met me in person it might be easier to hear about. I never have met these people though.


----------



## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

"I can't believe he chose an Aster over Accucraft. You guys have brain washed him already." Well John, it was easy to do after he read the live steam forum for a few weeks... ROFLMAO


----------



## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Randy and Steve, 
In case you want the 'rest of the story', it is in this thread. 
http://tinyurl.com/3mhwaeb 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By jfrank on 13 Aug 2011 08:13 AM 



I can't believe he chose an Aster over Accucraft. You guys have brain washed him already. 




John,
If the Mikado Kit had been from Accucraft, Regner, roundhouse or Billy the Kid, I would have bought it from any of those manufacturers provided it was in Kit form. That is the main reason I chose an Aster.


----------



## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeremiah, you are suposed to tell John you purchased the Aster over the Accucraft because of the superior QUALITY. Thats the number 1 rule as an A.S. It is OK to say you also wanted a kit engine. hehehe. ( we have drawn him over to the dark side.... kits and alcohol.... )


----------



## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By JEFF RUNGE on 13 Aug 2011 02:32 PM 
Jeremiah, you are suposed to tell John you purchased the Aster over the Accucraft because of the superior QUALITY. Thats the number 1 rule as an A.S. It is OK to say you also wanted a kit engine. hehehe. ( we have drawn him over to the dark side.... kits and alcohol.... ) 
Jeff
Much easier to tag an Aster Kit (purple color boiler) with Texas A & M...then send John and advertisement as an alumni gift!


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Ok, 
I chose the Aster Mikado because of the excellent quality of the Aster Product. When I opened my first box of parts, angels sang. When I touched my first part my wife fainted. I have to throw a blanket over the build at the end of the day or my neighbors complain about the bright light radiating from my workspace. I had my Aster mikado tender next to some Aristocraft stock and low and behold, the stock had melted and withdrew at the mighty awesome presence of the Aster tender.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By iceclimber on 13 Aug 2011 03:15 PM 
Ok, 
I chose the Aster Mikado because of the excellent quality of the Aster Product. When I opened my first box of parts, angels sang. When I touched my first part my wife fainted. I have to throw a blanket over the build at the end of the day or my neighbors complain about the bright light radiating from my workspace. I had my Aster mikado tender next to some Aristocraft stock and low and behold, the stock had melted and withdrew at the mighty awesome presence of the Aster tender. 

Jeremiah:

Your description is right on! And proof that the term "coming to the dark side" is in error. I have been contending with those on the web that Live Steam is "Coming into the light"... No dark side involved at all!

You have actually SEEN THE LIGHT... and it is REAL, ain't it? Your excitement is contagous and I love it.


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I had my Aster mikado tender next to some Aristocraft stock and low and behold, the stock had melted and withdrew at the mighty awesome presence of the Aster tender.I suspect rather it may have been from all the hot air flying around here. hehehe


----------



## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Perhaps.


----------



## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By gibs035 on 13 Aug 2011 09:26 AM 
Posted By iceclimber on 13 Aug 2011 09:12 AM 
I really appreciate all the nice words guys. I honestly wasn't trying to create a thread to get kudos. Thanks though. Makes me feel a lot better after that rather unpleasant conversation yesterday. I do have to just let it roll of my back though like you said Steve. 

I think I'll quietly bow out if my Mikado looks like that NY Hudson after a few runs. I remember reading the story behind that NY Hudson David. Quite the story. 
Jeremiah
I wish we had pics of the day I wound up on my Kister with the Aster S-2 in my hands fully steamed up when I fell Steamin at Steve's a couple of years ago. The S-2 probably has more detail on it, as Jeff can atteste to, and it had not even a scratch on it. I felt a little pain but the engine was none for the worse.



I do too. That was amazing how you threw your body under the engine to save it. We were afraid you would be scalded to death by the steam. We do have pics of your C62 on fire I believe. Heck without you Art steamin at Steve's would be a dull afair. I hope your ears don't burn too much as we talk about everyone equally. And you aren't the only old fart, just the oldest.


----------



## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope your ears don't burn too much as we talk about everyone equally. And you aren't the only old fart, just the oldest. 









*Yes, I am proud to say that at "Steam'in at Steve's" we are equal opportunity "Picker on' ers". And while I always brag about how many miles have been put on the tracks...............the only thing that there is more of is the BS that goes on around the tracks.
*


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

And while I always brag about how many miles have been put on the tracks...............the only thing that there is more of is the BS that goes on around the tracks.Sounds pretty normal to me.


----------



## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds pretty normal to me.  

Yep sounds like live steam..................... 
Larry


----------

