# time for a new DCC setup



## veejo (Apr 16, 2009)

Time to upgrade my DCC set up. Currently have an NCE power cab, and a digitrax Zephyr. The zephy is good as my son can operate it (2/12 years), I like the NCE becasue of the display and it's hand held. I don't have sound yet, so far the number of functions hasn't been an issue.
This will be a major upgrade as I'II be moving from a throttle/command station all in one to probably a separate throttle separate command station set up.

So far the Digitrax super chief 8 amp unit looks like the go. It's cheap, seems to do alot, widely available. But I beleive that DT 400 is supposed to lack in the number of functions it supports (or is it the command station) to enable me to make the most out of sound. Do I really need all 28 functions. I pressume sound and motor are usually on the same address, even if different decoders are used, just different CV's so you don't need to change addresses to if you want to alter speed and blow the whistle ?

Also upgradeablity, it would be a bonus to be able to upgrade the software without send the unit back to the manufacturer, or local distributor (could be an issue for units bought from the USA to Australia).

Budget, the super cheif without power supply at $340 plus shipping seems a bargain. 

As I own NCE and Digitrax already, I'm very brand open to brands.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I use the Digitrax Chief and a PB110 booster and I am quite happy with the system. 

The current Digitrax Chief does not support functions beyond F12, but few sound systems make use of anything past F12 anyway. This may change. 

The 8 amp Chief booster is not in the same league as the 10 amp NCE booster. I have both. I use only the NCE PB110 booster to drive the outside track. It holds up well at 10 amps, trips at 20. The Chief's waveform starts to degrade pretty badly above 5 amps and it trips a slightly more than 8. There is an upside to both however. I use the Chief's internal booster to run an HO layout. 

With the NCE, you can run the whole layout on one booster and not have to mess with power districts. However, the layout has to be REALLY heavily wired so that a track short will actually trip the booster. If the parasitic resistance is higher than 1 ohm out and back, the thing won't trip at all and the sustained short circuit current can be very high until you get there to clear the short. In the meantime, you might get smoke. 

The Chief's lower current limit is a liability when you are trying to drive 3 heavy trains at once, it'll tend to trip. But the layout can be divided into districts, each from from it's own booster (at additional expense). As long as all the trains don't migrate into a single district, the boosters will share the load and you'll be much safer in the event of a short. 

Alternately, you can use a single large booster, such as the PB110, and several circuit breaker modules (about $35 each) in different districts to protect that district and get pretty much the same result as using 2 DCS200's, one as a master and one as a booster but at somewhat lower cost. 

For outdoors, I would strongly suggest that you look at the radio throttles in either system. This adds about $150 to the entry cost of a Chief and somewhat more to the entry cost of NCE. The NCE system is a two way radio link though. The current Digitrax system is one way, you have to plug in somewhere to select or deselect a loco. There is a two way Digitrax radio system coming out "real soon now" but probably at higher cost. The system will be upgradable, it will take a new trackside radio unit and and upgrade to the DT400. The new radio system may or may not be usuable internationally. I think that the current Digitrax and NCE radio systems are not approved for use outside the US and Canada. 

I have set up the addresses of the sound and motor decoders (when separate) both ways. Some to the same address, some to different addresses and then consist them. I have also set up the decoders to the same 4 digit address but different 2 digit addresses so that I can change CV29 and cause their addressing system to change so that I can program them separately in OPS mode and then rejoin them to the same address for running. 

Also consider using combined sound/motor decoders. QSI makes the most cost effective one right now. ESU makes a very good one but at 50% higher cost.


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## veejo (Apr 16, 2009)

That can be one of the problems of a system that has the booster and command station combined (I think that is what digitrax do on the chief), you can't just buy best of breed command station, best of breed booster, but have to part with money and then still buy a booster. No longer looking like a cheap fix. Hate to spend so much money that I'm locked in financially and can't take advantage of new systems. That's the nice thing about the Power cab and the Zephyr, not a large investment if you want to move to another system.

The power level for me is the 3 truck shay, so I'm not concerned about running lots of locos, just one with several motors.

I haven't played with seperate boosters, are they generic in that they simply take a low current DCC signal, and output it as a high current DCC signal (a DCC amplifier) ?
Does this mean if I bought the chief, and an AWESOME separate booster , if I ever moved to another system, the booster would stay ?


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I had a Digitrax Super Chief 8 amp for awhile on my large scale layout and didn't like it for a couple of reasons..
Not enough power,
Dt400 throttle too cumbersome.

I think that you answered your own question with... 

I like the NCE becasue of the display and it's hand held...


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

veejo, 

Before you jump I would look hard @ the possibility of hooking up the NCE Power Cab to there PB110 Booster.. This would give you 10 amps @ the track voltage you want to run.. 

BulletBob


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

In the case of the PB110 and Digitrax boosters, they take a low power version of the DCC signal (on the RailSync lines of the LocoNet) and amplify, voltage regulate and current limit the output to apply to the track. None of them know where the signal is coming from so that they can be mixed and matched. I believe that the NCE system also outputs a low power DCC signal that can drive any booster. 

One issue with the Zephyr is that while it's output current is enough to run a single large scale loco, it's output voltage is regulated to 12.8 volts per the Digitrax spec. This is enough for modern small scale stuff but is pretty marginal or inadequate for older HO and large scale locos. If the DCS50 (Zephyr) is used as a command station, it will need an external booster to drive any reasonable large scale layout. This booster could come from anybody. 

Boosters tend to be expensive mainly because they are a stand-alone piece that needs to be manufactured, stocked, distributed and retailed separately. There really isn't all that much inside that is really expensive. Adding a booster inside a command station produces a less expensive overall product, granted at the loss of some flexibility. However, the internal booster can be simply ignored or used on a branch line where the current demand would be lower. 

I went the huge external booster approach many years ago because the internal Digitrax boosters then were even weaker than they are now. Dividing my layout into power districts with weak boosters wasn't going to help because the things had troubles with just two trains and it was pretty clear that I'd need LOTS of districts to keep the population in any one district to just one train. The large booster solved that problem. I could have got one, at the time (1998), from NCE or CVP. I choose NCE for reasons that I don't even remember. 

I ran the DCS100 command station from the AC output of a Bachmann power pack for 10 years because nothing was hooked to the internal booster and the power pack had plenty of power to run the command station by itself. The standby power of the Bachmann pack and the DCS100 together was less than 5 watts, a hefty power supply will have higher standby power than that by itself. To turn the layout off, I turned off the booster's power supply and left the DCS100 running 24/7. This kept the LocoNet active and also kept the batteries in the radio throttles from going flat for a year or more. 

Now, I've put a larger power supply on the DCS100 and use the internal booster to run the HO layout and the external NCE booster to run the large scale layout. With the two boosters, I can set their output voltage separately to the optimum value for each layout. Both layouts can run quite nicely at the same time because I don't have decoder address overlap between the two layouts. The DCS100 (Chief) can run up to 120 locos at one time before it runs out of memory, the Zephyr can only run 10 locos at once. I can also run the test track in the garage from either booster via a DPDT switch.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I likewise use the 10 Amp NCE booster, and I also run their radio throttles. A couple of years ago, NCE made significant range improvements on their wireless throttles, and I'm very happy with the system, and I prefer the procab button and menu layout, easier, faster, and there's nothing they cannot do in terms of commands to a dcc system, they support all 28 functions. 

Regards, Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

I used the NCE cabs at Greg's house and years ago at other layouts. Besides being unfamiliar, they seem to work fine. I am, by now, very familiar with the DT400 throttle and I find it very easy to use although the learning curve might be a little steeper. One feature that the DT400 has that the NCE cabs do not is the ability to run two trains from the same throttle at the same time. 

I also use a UT4 radio throttle and for just driving trains I like it a lot. Not many buttons and a REALLY BIG knob. It feels like one of the better MRC power packs. Simple toggle switch for reversing.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I might try to clarify what George stated about "two trains from the same throttle". 

That Digitrax throttle has 2 knobs, making this very easy. Most DCC throttles will run multiple trains at once, but of course they only have one "knob" I can quickly switch between up to 9 locos, but only have one "knob" to actively control one train at a time. 

Regards, Greg


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