# Can You Run European Model Trains on US Power?



## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

I'm currently living in Europe and I've purchased several model trains that I really want to try to run back in the US when I return. They are HO and G scale if that matters. I know you can do a power conversion to make US electronics run in Europe, but can you also go the other way and make European Electronics run in the United States? What do I need to do or buy when I get back to the US to allow me to run these trains. Can they run on regular HO or G scale track or do I need to keep using the European track (which looks identical to me). The owner of the train store who sold them to me warned me that I couldn't run them in the US. I sure hope that he is wrong and that there's a way. I assume I can convert the G scale to battery but I'm not sure about the HO? I'm pretty uneducated when it comes to model train electronics so I'd welcome any advice on how to keep my cool Dutch trains running back in the US. Thanks!!!

Johannes


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## Ralph Berg (Jun 2, 2009)

When I was a child, I bought a lot of Fleischmann HO trains in Germany and ran them here in the US with no problems.
Marklin HO was not compatable with my US trains. I don't remember if it was 3 rail, or for some other reason.
But I believe their Trix brand is compatable.
Ralph


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

All you will need is a 110v power supply instead of your 220v one. Just make sure that the output is correct for your engines, DC or AC. Most "G" is DC and much HO is also DC unless you have Marklin which is AC.


Chuck


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

What do I need to do or buy when I get back to the US to allow me to run these trains. Can they run on regular HO or G scale track or do I need to keep using the European track 
As Chuck said, all you need to deal with is the different house electrical power - 110V over here instead of the 220V you have in Europe. 

It is possible to buy a 'step-up' transformer that will work for your existing equipment - it converts the voltage from 110 to 220. *HOWEVER* do not try to use the small ones sold for travellers - they won't handle the power you need. Search Amazon.com for a "power converter step up" and you'll find quite a few options. Go for at least 100W and preferably 200W or more. 

The track is the same gauge (width between the rails.) I'm curious why your dealer in germany said they won't work in the U.S.? Maybe he was thinking of the house power.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Johannes, 

As already stated, the difference between Europe and the US and Canada is the commercial house power system, the power to run the trains and the track is the same, but on the trains there might be other subtle differences, like the couplers on H0, depnds on the make. 
For houe power there are three basic aspects that are different, 115 volts vs 230 volt, 60Hz vs 50 Hz and the power plug. 

I brought some G-Scale trains from Europe over here including the 230 volt power pack. The power pack is an LGB 5000 that delivers 1.1 amp so a 50 Watt transformer to step 115 up to 230 volts was actually fine. That step-up transformer was only a few dollars and it did the conversion of the power plug as well. 

But if you are still in Europe, it would make sense for you to sell the 230 Volt power packs before you leave and buy equivalent or more powerful 115 Volt power packs here rather than go some step-up transformer route.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

European dealers trade in secondhand stock oftentimes, maybe was looking for a "fiire purchase" for his stocks by saying he could not use them in the US. I know of a couple dealers that have done that here (well, if you want new MTH, you cannot run your childhood Lionel with it, but I will give you store credit...)


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

IF you bought locomotives only (ignoring cars and track and unlighted buildings for this discussion), and they are track power only, then they will run here without any problems as long as you buy your power supply here. 

If you bought something battery powered, then look at the charger. There will be a plate on it that says what sort of input power it needs. Many, if not most, battery chargers these days are universal, and will run from less than 120 to more than 240V, and 50 or 60 Hz. 

If you bought a train set, with a power supply, then the same thing appplies here as for battery chargers.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Koploper...heh ED!?????? I knew it was you!

Bubba


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## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

What about the Roco Brand? Any ideas on that one?


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## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

Posted By Madstang on 04 Dec 2011 10:36 AM 
Koploper...heh ED!?????? I knew it was you!

Bubba

I'm sorry Bubba, who is this ED guy? My name is Johannes.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The original post asked about the trains, but the answers seem to be about the power supply. 

It might be cheaper to buy a new US power supply, than to convert the US power to match the European power supply. 

So, on the train power question: All the G scale trains will run on 24V DC (and slower on lower voltage), just like ours here. 

The HO trains, I cannot make this blanket statement, because there exists the possibility that you got some AC powered HO trains. 

Most likely though, they run on DC 12v. 

If you want to convert the power supplies, then you might want to give the make and model... USUALLY alll you need is a step up converter to go from 110v AC to 220v AC, but there again exists a possibility that the cycles per second is not right.... very slight possibility... I've had this happen with some Japanese stuff (part of Japan runs on 50Hz AC, not 60 Hz AC) 

Hope this helps, rather than muddy the waters. 

Greg


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Roco is standard 12v DC unless it is DIGITAL. I have not kept up with that side of the hobby. As I recall, lots of proprietary digital stuff in Europe. 

Marklin is AC unless BRANDED as HAMO or TRIX, then it is DC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim, do the Roco units do "analog conversion" like most DCC decoders? 

Interesting to know that Marklin still sells the AC stuff... could that stuff be identified by the contact pickups in the center of the undersides of the locos? 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Roco Digital is essentially DCC. 
The very first "mouse" throttle that LGB came out with for their MTS system was a re-branded Roco mouse. 
The US distributor for Roco is here: 
http://www.roco.com/roco.aspx 

And Marklin still doing AC..............yes, and that ain't going to change. 
Big selling point is that there are no polarity issues with reverse loops of Wye's 
Marklin H0 track for AC operation will also have the contacts in the centre of each tie for power pick-up. 
But Marklin also offers many of their H0 locos for DC operation and Marklin Gauge 1 equipment is DC, so is Marklin Z gauge. 

Knut


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Roco have some AC models as well, but much of their H0 and H0e line are 12vdc.


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## swanpondwv (Mar 9, 2011)

In addition to my large scale, sparky and live steam, I also have a three rail HO AC Marklin digital layout AND a two rail HO DC or DCC Trix layout. 

Marklin is AC three rail and they make many Marklin models in two rail DC under the Trix brand. Most can be converted to the other gender.

Marklin 1 guage and Maxi engines are AC powered. Most, but not all of those you may come across, of the recent Marklin 1 guage and Maxi engines included a board that will allow the engine to run on DC.

Of course, when you start talking Marklin digital the line between AC or DC gets hazy.

Oh yea, I also have ton of Z scale stuff. Lot's of Marklin but more AZL.

Bill


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Generally 50/60 hz is not an issue. Transformers for 50 hz will operate at a little higher voltage than normal, but within tolerances. So the step up transformer should run just fine, and is a simple solution.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

True, but not always... so I refrain from saying anything that is not 100% true without issuing caveats. 

It's that 1 in 100 situation that will get you. 

When it's MY stuff, I can take risks, when it's someone else's stuff, I'm more careful about giving absolutes. 

Just me, I guess. 

Greg 

p.s. Hey Bill, check out my Z scale pages! We have a module group, and just constructed a 28 track switch yard 1 scale mile long... we run all DCC.


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## swanpondwv (Mar 9, 2011)

Greg, I'll take a look. That's the beauty of Z. Huge layouts in small spaces.

Bill


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By JPCaputo on 05 Dec 2011 10:13 PM 
Generally 50/60 hz is not an issue. Transformers for 50 hz will operate at a little higher voltage than normal, but within tolerances. So the step up transformer should run just fine, and is a simple solution. 
Can you elaborate on this:
"Transformers for 50 hz will operate at a little higher voltage than normal"

What does the frequency of the AC power have to do with voltage?

If you use a transformer designed for 60 Hz and then use it to transform 50 Hz power, the transformer will run a bit warmer than at 60 Hz but I don't see why it would operate at a little higher voltage than normal - I don't even understand what that means.


Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with you Knut, there will be a bit more warmth, and in high current applications, it can be a problem... probably not in this case. I also have some equipment that depended on the 50 cycle frequency and would not work at all on 60 Hz, rate, but it can happen. 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Please note that some larger supplies (Aristo Elite for example) have a power configuration switch and can be 110 or 220 by the switch setting. 
Also, some power supplies are smart power and are rated for 110 to 220 and adjust automatically. Read the specifications carefully!! 

Starter set supplies do not have this feature. 

Also, I can not understand the statement that 50 cycles will have higher voltages on a transformer!! If unregulated output like the Aristocraft Ultima, the voltage output under a large load could be less as the time lag to recharge the capacitor is less even though the peak is a little longer.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 09 Dec 2011 08:41 AM 
Also, I can not understand the statement that 50 cycles will have higher voltages on a transformer!! If unregulated output like the Aristocraft Ultima, the voltage output under a large load could be less as the time lag to recharge the capacitor is less even though the peak is a little longer. 
If we are going to discuss this further we need to agree on terminology first.

A "transformer" is a device that transfers electrical energy from one circuit to another through inductively coupled conductors—the transformer's coils, in this discussion we are talking about transforming the normal commercial 115 Volts AC line voltage in a house to 230 Volts AC typically used in Europe and a lot of the rest of the world.


To me the Aristocraft Ultima and devices like that should be called "power packs" or something along those lines even though many people unfortunately call them transformers - which they are not.

With an unregulated power pack under load, yes, the output would theoretically be slightly less with a 50 Hz AC input rather than a 60 Hz input, how much depends on the amount of filtering in the power pack and the current draw. But in practice that hardly makes any difference since one would just increase the throttle a bit more to compensate - at full throttle most of our locos run too fast anyway.


Knut


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Do train power supplies come with a 110v/220v switch? 

Running a 50 cycle item on 60 cycle and vice versa is a problem.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 09 Dec 2011 11:45 AM 
Running a 50 cycle item on 60 cycle and vice versa is a problem. 


Please elaborate.

When it comes to train power packs I don't see where there could be a problem - I have run my trains on a small layout with a 220 volt LGB power pack and a small 50 Watt step up transformer for years.
And when we lived in Germany for four years we ran lots of 110 volt equipment on 220 volts with step-down transformers including a 15 amp monster for all that time with no problems.


Knut


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## twins1991terrier (Dec 7, 2011)

I know that Märklin sells the exact same starter sets using one catalogue number if you want a European (220v) power supply, and another, different catalog number if you want a US (110v) power supply.Same train. Same cars. Same track. But the set comes with a different power supply/transformer. BTW, these trafos are color coded: White for European, blue for U.S.This is consistent throughout all Märklin scales, from Z to 1.l 
I think LGB does the same.I've bought lots of Märklin loks from dealer in German and had 'em shipped here. They all run just fine. Matter of fact, now that I think about it, my first electric train was a Märklin set my parents gave me in Austria in 1958. When we got ready to move back to the US, the Märklin shop in Graz traded my 220V trafo for a 110v version. (I still have all those trains and they run great).


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

In 1950 I brought back a Marklin engine and cars (HO) from Germany and ran it for years around the Christmas tree on this side of the pond. I use a Lionel transformer (110v). I can use transformer because it dropped the AC from 110v to a variable lower AC voltage suitable for model trains.

Over the years I have added other Marklin engines (AC) and N (ROCO), Z (Marklin), and G LGB engines (all of which run on DC) purchased in Europe and run all of them over here with a suitable DC power supply. Never any problems. 


All that is needed is a 110v power supply or a step up transformer if you want to use your European power supply.




Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Everyone that is speaking in absolutes is subject to error. 

It CAN be a problem. 

It's not NEVER a problem. 

It's not ALWAYS ok. 

Some general guidelines, if it's a transformer and rectifier and "rheostat" only, most likely OK. 

More electronics involved, some chance it won't work. 

Heavily microprocessor driven, or switching power supply that specifies 50Hz only... well, you get the drift. 

etc. 

Greg


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh, no no no. They'll never work. You see, with Europe on the other side, the electron spin is opposite what it is here. To get it right, you have to get trains from the southern hemisphere on that side, Africa or Australia. Then the electrons are spinning the right way 'round. 

Of course they'll work fine. Just get a power pack that's made for US power. Many, these days, have a switch. If the mfr says it'll work in USA, don't worry about it. Worst you'd have to do is get a power pack that is made for US.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Koploper on 04 Dec 2011 11:59 AM 
Posted By Madstang on 04 Dec 2011 10:36 AM 
Koploper...heh ED!?????? I knew it was you!

Bubba



I'm sorry Bubba, who is this ED guy? My name is Johannes.







Funny he posted the SAME EXACT pic on facebook, AND he is currently living in Europe....if you don't mind me asking just where in Europe are you living?

Seems way to coincidencle, and he purchased a train where he is staying and wanted to pose the SAME EXACT question as you....Ed.

Bubba


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Oh Boy -

This thread has gone from discussing 

Transformers to

Power Packs to

Electronics in general

Three different types of devices , also three different answers of what will or will not work.

1. Step-up transformers to convert 115 volts to 230 volts will always work perfectly fine with 50 or 60 Hz.
After all, that's their purpose in life, to convert 115 VAC to 230 VAC and it just so happens that most 115 VAC power is 60 Hz and most 230 Volt power is 50 Hz, so these transformers obviously have to work with both.


2. Model Railroad power packs are typically designed for either 230 Volt AC or 115 VAC depending where they are sold.
I checked two LGB power packs I happen to have, the 230 Volt European one shows an input rating of 230 VAC 50/60 Hz (ie it was tested and certified for both frequencies), the US version has an input rating of 115 V 60 Hz, it was only tested and certified at that frequency.

So at least for these specific power packs, using the European one here with a transformer that converts 115 VAC 60 Hz to 230 VAC 60 Hz, will work just fine.


3. Electronics in general - yes, as Greg posted, for some electronics running those at the wrong line frequency can create problems.

But as I posted somewhere towards the beginning of this thread, the best solution is to sell the European power packs in Europe before coming back to the States and buying equivalent 115 Volt versions here.

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To have some fun with some "nits"... step up transformers for 115 to 230 only work on 60Hz "officially" because 115v is ALWAYS 60Hz.... (the 50Hz stuff is 100 volts, found mostly in Japan).. 

To help others reading, a transformer cannot change from 60Hz to 50Hz or vice versa. 

Greg


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## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

Posted By krs on 04 Dec 2011 02:30 PM 
Roco Digital is essentially DCC. 
The very first "mouse" throttle that LGB came out with for their MTS system was a re-branded Roco mouse. 
The US distributor for Roco is here: 
http://www.roco.com/roco.aspx 

And Marklin still doing AC..............yes, and that ain't going to change. 
Big selling point is that there are no polarity issues with reverse loops of Wye's 
Marklin H0 track for AC operation will also have the contacts in the centre of each tie for power pick-up. 
But Marklin also offers many of their H0 locos for DC operation and Marklin Gauge 1 equipment is DC, so is Marklin Z gauge. 

Knut 

So Knut, do you know if their HO model of the Dutch blue/yellow Koploper is DC or AC? That's the one I really want to bring back and run at shows on the HO layouts. I haven't purchased it yet, but was curious before I do if it will run on regular HO track.

Thanks!

Johannes


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## Koploper (Apr 3, 2011)

Posted By Madstang on 09 Dec 2011 06:40 PM 
Posted By Koploper on 04 Dec 2011 11:59 AM 
Posted By Madstang on 04 Dec 2011 10:36 AM 
Koploper...heh ED!?????? I knew it was you!

Bubba
....if you don't mind me asking just where in Europe are you living?


I currently live south of Den Haag in Holland. I'll return to Florida in the summer 0f 2012. Where does your friend Ed live?

Johannes


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 09 Dec 2011 12:48 PM 
Posted By xo18thfa on 09 Dec 2011 11:45 AM 
Running a 50 cycle item on 60 cycle and vice versa is a problem. 


Please elaborate.

When it comes to train power packs I don't see where there could be a problem - I have run my trains on a small layout with a 220 volt LGB power pack and a small 50 Watt step up transformer for years.
And when we lived in Germany for four years we ran lots of 110 volt equipment on 220 volts with step-down transformers including a 15 amp monster for all that time with no problems.


Knut 


I lived in Germany and Belgium so we used transformers all the time. Europe's power is 60 cycle, step down the voltage and 110V appliances run fine. When we were near Tokyo Japan, power is 100V 50 cycles. My wife burned out the motor on a vacuum cleaner in a few weeks time. We had that cleaner for years in Belgium and Hawaii. We toasted something else too, can't remember now. Then she bought 2 nice Japanese made 50 cycle vacuums, used them 2 years there no problem. Come back to the USA and one is burned out in a month. 60 cycle motors on 50 cycle and vice versa will burn out with prolonged use. Maybe if you run them short period, they will be fine, but long period, they will damage. The electronic devices like TVs and computers all had 50/60 cycle, 110/220V switches. Set the switches and no problem, other then wall plugs are different.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10 Dec 2011 09:42 AM 
To have some fun with some "nits"... step up transformers for 115 to 230 only work on 60Hz "officially" because 115v is ALWAYS 60Hz.... (the 50Hz stuff is 100 volts, found mostly in Japan).. 

To help others reading, a transformer cannot change from 60Hz to 50Hz or vice versa. 

Greg 
50 cycle around Tokyo. 60 cycle in Osaka/Kyoto. How called for that?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, been to Japan 22 or 23 times. Mostly south of Nagoya, but some time in Tokyo and in Osaka, so I've definitely played the "Hertz" game. 

This was about 15-17 years ago, before more sophisticated electronics was around, and some things still used the line frequency for a time reference, besides the obvious heating problem from high current motors you experienced first hand.

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 10 Dec 2011 11:52 AM 

I lived in Germany and Belgium so we used transformers all the time. Europe's power is 60 cycle, step down the voltage and 110V appliances run fine. When we were near Tokyo Japan, power is 100V 50 cycles. My wife burned out the motor on a vacuum cleaner in a few weeks time. We had that cleaner for years in Belgium and Hawaii. We toasted something else too, can't remember now. Then she bought 2 nice Japanese made 50 cycle vacuums, used them 2 years there no problem. Come back to the USA and one is burned out in a month. 60 cycle motors on 50 cycle and vice versa will burn out with prolonged use. Maybe if you run them short period, they will be fine, but long period, they will damage. The electronic devices like TVs and computers all had 50/60 cycle, 110/220V switches. Set the switches and no problem, other then wall plugs are different. 
Europe's power is actually 50 cycles, not 60, I assume that is a typo.

As to vacuum motors, I can imagine that running them at the wrong frequency would cause them to run hotter, but running them over or under voltage more than the tolerance they were designed for is just as bad.


Now, when it comes to model trains we don't have that issue.
Even the Marklin AC powered trains will run fine with either frequency, and the rest is DC powered.

Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Koploper on 10 Dec 2011 10:32 AM 
So Knut, do you know if their HO model of the Dutch blue/yellow Koploper is DC or AC? That's the one I really want to bring back and run at shows on the HO layouts. I haven't purchased it yet, but was curious before I do if it will run on regular HO track.

Thanks!

Johannes

Johannes,

I don't know anything about that particular train but if I look on the net it seems to come in several versions - you need to find out the product number of the actual nodel you want to purchase.

This one by Trix (owned by Marklin) is listed as standard DC
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/trx/trx22355.htm

This one by Marklin uses an mfx decoder

http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/mar/mar37421.htm

MFX Decoders are a can of worms when it comes to DC or DCC compatibility.
Some of them are DC and DCC compatible, others not - depends patially on the manufacturer and at some point in time Marklin was also blocking DCC functionality even though that was a capability of the decoder.
But the motor output of the mfx decoder is designed for a DC motor, so I would think that you can either rewire the loco to bypass the mfx decoder completely for a DC layout or replace the mfx decoder with a DCC decoder if in fact the mfx deecoder you end up won't reognize DCC.

Can you post the actual model number of the train you want to buy.


Knut


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