# EBT #12 good news?



## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Just heard from my dealer today that the EBT Mikados are expected to arrive in a couple weeks. Looking at the Accucraft website, I think their webmaster might be as surprised by that news as I was. Has anyone else heard anything?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I got a call from my dealer saying that he got a call from Cliff wanting to know if the guys who had ordered from him still wanted the locos. Beyond that, I've no idea. Certainly good news to hear anything in conjunction with this project, but I'll believe it when I see it. 

Later, 

K


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

It is going to get interesting.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

I got the same message from my dealer as did Kevin and I share his attitude after so many years and disappointments. 
My dealer told me late fall but I'd take it in a couple of weeks however I'm not holding my breath. 
Tom


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

The ups and downs of hurrying up and waiting. Guess it will be worth the wait for you guys, eh?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

but I'll believe it when I see it 
The Accucraft guys at ECLSTS confirmed the pre-production unit had been made and sent back to China. [Surprised Dwight didn't get a shot of it running in Cliff's test area!] Then they said the production wouldn't be until next year - which seemed a bit of a stretch. Maybe they were trying not to set our expectations too high? 

Well, maybe the container is on the boat . .


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I just called Accucraft today to get it from the horse's mouth. They're expecting them in by the end of the month.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

I better get working on my pre 1913 (the year #7 was sold) EBT rolling stock! 
Great news if it holds, 
Tom


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Wow, been a long wait for you guys. Look forward to seeing pictures.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I got a call from my dealer saying that he got a call from Cliff wanting to know if the guys who had ordered from him still wanted the locos 
Yep, mine called to confirm I was still interested in taking delivery. _Can't believe they'll be here this year, though._ 

I better get working on my pre 1913 (the year #7 was sold) EBT rolling stock! 
Uh? Why do you need pre-1913 rolling stock for #12? (Inquiring minds want to know.) I have an H&C high-side steel-lined hopper almost done - does that count?


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Pete, 
According to R&K #12 was built in December of 1911 and #7 was sold to Thomas F. Carey Co in October of 1913. Though I didn't upgrade like you, keeping my C-16 based #7 to run along with #12 dictates that I follow Kevin's lead and use the early wood hoppers. I found a stash of older Delton kits of the outside braced cars and though the truss work is incorrect I may leave them as is. I also (again following Kevin) have a collection of Bachmann wood ore cars to be modified. I think they will make a neat and very long train behind either my #7 or the long awaited #12. 
Yes, your H&C steel-lined hopper (acquired in 1902 and upgraded in 1914/15-R&K again) would be correct behind #12 but not #7. So how historically correct do you want to be? 
Viva EBT!!! 
Tom


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, your H&C steel-lined hopper (acquired in 1902 and upgraded in 1914/15-R&K again) would be correct behind #12 but not #7. So how historically correct do you want to be? 
Well, I'm not selling my #7 just because a Mikado arrives! Besides, it already coexists with my #15, 1st #5 and (future) #1. And the H&C hoppers got high sides before the steel lining, according to the drawings I got from Bill, so #7 would have pulled them (if I leave out the lining - you can't see it under the coal anyway!) 

Here's something interesting for you history buffs who model "March 15th, 1931" or whatever. I don't own a track - since moving to a condo I've had to operate my trains due to the generosity of my friends who do. So I have a hopper train suitable for a 1930s (+/- 10 yrs) Mikado to pull, plus a bunch of older cars suitable for a pre-1910 loco, like 1st #5 (another 2-8-0) or #7, the C-19 derivative. 

I can't take all the trains to a meet, so I pick a 'historically correct' consist and loco (or two) and take those boxes. They never get to run together, so I can have models from several eras without stretching the history. 
[Well, until I get #7 torn down and all the modern domes and air brake gear removed, I can't claim much 'historial accuracy', but I'm getting there.]


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

While checking the Accucraft site to see if they had posted a photo of the engineering sample of EBT 12 (they still have not), I noticed something in the descriptive text. It now says the chassis is of brass and stainless steel, rather than referring to the entire model. After checking the descriptions for some of the other engines, it appears to me that the descriptions have been modified for many of them, as well. Anyone else notice this, or am I imagining things? 

I don't want #12 to come in soon--I haven't finished saving up for it--(just joking, Kevin, Pete)! 

Larry


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Larry Green on 12 May 2011 09:00 AM 
I don't want #12 to come in soon--I haven't finished saving up for it--(just joking, Kevin, Pete)! 

To be honest, I had been procrastinating in that department, thinking we were going to get a bit more of a heads-up like new info on their Product Updates page or a photo of an engineering sample. But hey, if anyone needs a slightly used kit-built Ruby, or decals for your 1:32 AMS boxcars, check out my ads in the classifieds! All kinds of goodies going up on Ebay too...


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft put a photo of a 1:20 model on the web site! It is looking like we might see this loco soon, YEA!


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Save you cash fast they are on they way.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft put a photo of a 1:20 model on the web site! 
_So they did:_


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm curious--am I the only one who ordered #12 in the unlettered version? I see that the photo engine has a generator and electric headlight. I believe the line drawing showed the as-delivered acetelene headlight. 

Of course, after all this time, I will take whichever my dealer has available! 

Larry


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

I heard from my dealer today that the locos will soon be on the water and in our hands by mid to late June. 
I would prefer an unlettered version also but will take what I can get. 
Cliff has the prototype I'm told and it runs "like a champ". 
Looks good, we'll see. 

Tom


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Definitely looks good. Will be nice to see some videos of it running. How long have you guys been awaiting this one?


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Does anyone know if it has working valve gear or the usual piston reverser?


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

If I were paying $3400.00 I would hope it would have working (simplified) valve gear.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Based on the price differences between the EBT and the announced specs for the recently arrived SP #8/9, the EBT should have slide valves. Most of the ACL locos from Accucraft do have slide valves and operating valve gear -- even if it is simplified. 

Ross Schlabach


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

For once Accucraft should have the valve gear the right way around on this one too, since both the model and the prototype have slide valves.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

How long have you guys been awaiting this one? 
It's so long I can't remember.. 

My checkbook says I wrote a deposit check in March of 2008, but it was announced before that. I think Accucraft asked for the deposits about a year afterwards to gauge the commitment.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

20008? Try 2007... Four years. Of course, in the ultimate bit of irony, now that they say they're on the way, I'm saying "Can't you wait another 6 months???" Go figure--a month after I "raid the kitty" to pay for needed car repairs... 

Later, 

K


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

How long have you guys been awaiting this one? 
It has only been about a year and a half for me. I was originally planning to pass on the #12 and wait for the #14 that was announced around the same time as the #12, but when it became clear the 14/15 wasn't happening, I put in an order for the #12 instead.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Wow. Glad they are finally coming in for you guys.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft just updated their Product Update page. Not only does it give us an ETA for the EBT (June), the AML K4 (July), the T1 and Allegheny (November) and the SP mogul (February 2012), but there's also some exciting new stuff in the pipeline too under "Future Releases", including a Pennsy M1B 4-8-2, Norfolk & Western J 4-8-4, SP P-8 4-6-2, and AT&SF #3751 4-8-4.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

AML K4 (July) Right, believe that one when I see it. It said February, then they updated to April then went to Q2, now they say July. I think it would suit them better to just say "coming soon" like they did with the EBT and then surprise everyone as opposed to constantly missing their ETA.


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

Since the ETA for the EBT is no longer TBD. Here's a quick look at the real one until you all get your's. Enjoy! 



Keep on Steamin' 

Scott


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I snapped some pix at the BTS yesterday. 

Some are fuzzy, but I was told that the domes are not correct as shown in these pictures, they will be changed to be prototypically correct.

More pictures on my site: *http://www.elmassian.com...trong>**



















Sorry that some of the pictures are fuzzy, so was my brain at the end of the show!

Greg*


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Woowee! Looks beautiful (apart from the steam dome!)


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Greg, 
Did you get any shots at the AML K4 if they had it there?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, just a couple of closeups... 

Still unloading and editing the pictures... 

I emailed them to you just now...

Greg


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Thanks Greg


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Greg for the photos of #12.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks, Greg! Looks better in your photos than it does in Accucraft's "official" picture. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks, actually I did poor pictures, and did not have the flash on, lighting was poor... I was dog tired, spent the entire time talking to the various vendors about new products and updates and most importantly, improvements to be made or could be made. 

Greg


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

I see in the cab the reverser is push full forward, however the valve gears is up indicating it is in reverse.... so when you open the throttle which way will it go?


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## HeliconSteamer (Jan 2, 2008)

Forward. In this case, the return crank should lead the crankpin instead of trailing it. Accucraft appear to have set the locomotive to look like an inside admission engine when in reality 12, 14, and 15 are outside admission slide valved locomotives. A similar situation occurred on the Accucraft UK Countess where an outside admission locomotive was set up as if the prototype were inside admission. This isn't a huge problem to fix if you're familiar with valve timing, but its one of those things you shouldn't have to do.


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a constant problem with live steam models with the radius rod being in the up position for forward motion (normally should be in the down postion), and in the case of Walshaerts with slide valves, they can actually work exactly to prototype setup, yet it STILL gets reversed on these models. On the Mason Bogie project the same thing happenned when the prototype model came out. The Mason has very visible valve setup, with links running right up to the top of boiler, so having the setup reverse from actual prototype is very obvious. We pointed out the error and the final production models were set up correctly with the radius rod down for forward motion, the Johnson bar set up had to be totally changed prior to production. 

What it takes on this EBT loco, and virtually every other Accy model to put them right is to simply rotate the eccentric on the drive wheel to the position to the rear of axle centre (mirror about the axle). Then it will run right...but to run forwards from then on the Johnsonbar has to be left in reverse! Or...laser cut a new reach rod that connects near the top of the Johnsonbar, rather than near the bottom. 

The radius rod in the down position for forward motion is pretty much a world wide standard, except Garratts or Meyer locos etc where two chassis run in the same direction, but oppose each other in design. Anyway, one of the reasons for the radius rod down position for forward motion was because should the lil lifting rod that holds that radius rod in the correct 'gear' within the expansion link (reverse link), break, then the rod will crash to the bottom of the expansion link...and the loco keeps going forward. If it were set up like Accy's, then the loco would instantly go into reverse and havoc would follow as the loco goes into piston lock at 50 mph.... Not likely to happen with models fortunately!

Its an easy fix on the model.

David.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

a constant problem with live steam models with the radius rod being in the up position for forward motion 
It's not just live steam. My RYM #15 Mikado, a truly beautiful work of art, arrived with the gear in neutral. We discovered it was actually modelled so the gear could be in forward or reverse (down or up) so the trick was to rotate the link on the shaft to push the radius rod downwards. Mine was loose enough to move without altering the Johnson Bar - Geoff found his would move the gear from the cab. 
_Before:_











_After:_


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

More pics of the E.B.T in this Forum: http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/13/aft/120076/afv/topic/afpgj/8/Default.aspx#218443


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Speaking of valve gear...Does anyone know about "southern" valve gear? EBT was said to have some engines with this system as was WW&F#6 a two foot gauge Prairie in Maine. The WW&F guys probably got it on sale somewhere beint the cheap Yankees they were. 

I have looked at the photos of #6 and cannot make out how the valve gear works...what moves what and which way.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Here is a gif file that I liberated from anothor site showing how the Southern style valve gear works. 










It's a great site and also has animations for other valve gear styles. Check them out : http://www.steamlocomotive.com/appliances/valvegear.php


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anybody know if the valve gear on the EBT #12 is being corrected on the production models? Seems crazy that for once they have a slide valve model of a slide valve engine, and they still manage to get it backwards!


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I think I understand that diagram...pretty tricky! It looks like a reasonably tidy system, I wonder why Southern Valve gear was not more popular? Probably the guys buying it couldnt figure it out either. Perhaps I'll have to try to make an engine using it or Accucraft will build EBT#17. 

I had found this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq0RQuDoZIc&feature=relmfu of a British 15" gauge engine and studied it's valve gear-well shown at about the 6 minute mark. I guess it to be Hackworth which is what the Graham TVR1A vertical two cylinder marine Kit engine uses...I bought the kit partly to figure out how the valve gear works! 

Steam guys are a little crazy! 

--Eric 
SA#5649


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

_*Well, it was too good to be true (the June delivery.) 
*_
Yesterday's news from 'an un-named source' at Accucraft is that they did have a mix-up in the drawings, so the dome, cylinders, and one or two other details are wrong on the pilot model. They are being fixed, and 'won't delay shipment by more than 1-2 months'. 

Hopefully this is old news, and the shipment for June delivery includes that 1-2- months of re-work. I'm not holding my breath.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

At least they are taking care of things before they ship.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

It seems to me that there is no point in changing the domes, pilot and cylinders on the unlettered version, only on the EBT. That would make the unlettered version more attractive - the photos I have seen show a decent pretty generic Baldwin style. I do not know what was the prototype drawing they confused with the #12 but perhaps some South American or other export loco. In any case, if they already produced these parts, that could make an interesting alternative version. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to wonder how "undercorated" the undecorated version will be. Plain black? Or just without the EBT lettering and number, but still having the brass boiler bands and white striping? Seems like there would be some demand for a "#12 as she appeared in regular service" version (plain black but lettered), as opposed to the post-preservation trim package.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Posted By rwjenkins on 26 May 2011 08:22 PM 
I have to wonder how "undercorated" the undecorated version will be. Plain black? Or just without the EBT lettering and number, but still having the brass boiler bands and white striping? Seems like there would be some demand for a "#12 as she appeared in regular service" version (plain black but lettered), as opposed to the post-preservation trim package. 
Richard - the Accucraft promotional material all uses the word "unlettered", not "undecorated" to describe that option. So I would very much expect it to have the same decorations as the lettered loco, just without the number and letters in place. 


It would be a simple enough task to make a regular service #12 - after all, in regular service it would have been heavily weathered most of the time. Making a "plain black" model would, I suspect, not quite meet the needs of those who want the weathered/in service look, and not meet the needs of those who want the preserved look. I think it makes sense to make the decorated version, and those who want the in service look can make some simple changes and do some weathering.

Anyone have any links to photo/video of #12 in action? I've only been able to find shots/videos of #15.

Thanks to those who've posted the big train show pictures here - did anyone get video of the loco when it was running? No doubt it's a good runner. Can anyone report on how long it runs on a tank of butane?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I do not know what was the prototype drawing they confused with the #12 
Zubi, 
My info is that they got the EBT #14/15 drawings mixed up with the #12. #14/15 are larger locos (hence the bigger domes) and originally Accucraft annouced they would produce #12 AND #14/15. Lack of orders, plus the RYM #14/15 model, resulted in the #14/15 quietly disappearing from their website.


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## Old Iron (Jan 2, 2008)

Who know where they got the domes that were used on #12. They don't look anything like the domes on the prototype or the domes on 14 & 15. The oversize boiler looks like it might have come from a drawing of 14 or 15. If this project was as close to completion as we were led to believe then it looks like a major rework, especially for the live steam model.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone have any links to photo/video of #12 in action? 
Thre are plenty of photos of #12 in action post-1960 in tourist service, as it ran for many years until the boiler needed work. There's really good one on the EBT RR web site page: http://www.ebtrr.com/pics/scan12.jpg. You can tell it is post-1960 because of the "MILLIE" written under the number on the cab. 

#12 was the smallest and oldest Mike, so it didn't get much use once they had #16, 17 and 18 to supplement 14 and 15. I'm sure I can find a photo in one of the books, but none popped up when I googled it.


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## Old Iron (Jan 2, 2008)

some #12 shots here: 

  http://www.railpictures.net/showpho...road%20Top


Enter search by date - oldest first


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Here's a builder's photo. 










Note the unpainted, plannished iron boiler jacket. 

Later, 

K


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## Old Iron (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I just fixed the above link. There is a good front shot of 12 side-by-side with 15.


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## Old Iron (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I just fixed the above link. There is a good front shot of 12 side-by-side with 15.


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## carlferg (Mar 18, 2009)

kevin, plannished?? please define. thanks, carl


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Carl

Plannished iron / Russia iron, same thing only different.









Research Russia Iron / Plannished Iron. PDF[/b]

U.S. Patents - Plannished Iron PDF[/b]


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks for the pics guys! 

The boiler of the Accucraft model does look slightly overscale . . .particularly in the accucraft product photos. But it doesn't look nearly as bad in the shots taken at the big train show, looks pretty close to the money there. The smokebox does look too big though. Hard to tell from comparing photographs really . . .


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Perhaps the entire boiler is from #14/15! If the plans have indeed got mixed up half way through production, this is not a #12 but a hybrid... That, of course, should make all the EBT fans very happy, as now they can have both engines in one;-)!! Best, Zubi


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Nos. 14 and 15 were--for all intents and purposes--#12 with a larger diameter boiler (62" vs. 56") and slightly larger cylinders (19" x 24" vs. 17" x 24"). The firebox on nos. 14 and 15 was about 1' longer than on #12, too, resulting in the rear truck being a bit further behind the rear driver. The driver diameter, rigid wheelbase, and other dimensions were for the most part identical. The sand and steam domes are (according to Baldwin spec sheets) identical for the two classes. So there's not too much you can get "mixed up" and be wrong. If the domes are wrong, it's because they're just wrong--not because they were made from drawings of one loco vs. the other. 

Still, I'll much rather wait an additional month or two (what's one more to 50?) for them to get things as accurate as possible. 

Later, 

K


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is a head on photo of both #14 and #12. http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=169917


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

K, in that case, it appears they made #14/15 by mistake and tried to sell it as #12... Hard luck, now they will have to rip apart all those #14/15's, replace the boiler, the cylinders and the domes, and then they can call it #12... Oh, well, Expensive Boiler Turmoil, Zubi


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## HeliconSteamer (Jan 2, 2008)

Here are some quick and dirty observations from comparing the Accy model to a photo of 12 post-1960: 

The steam dome is WAY too tall. It should be the same height as the two sand domes. 
The headlight is too small. It should be sustantially larger and the bezel should project out over the smokebox front very slightly. 
The valve chests are too short. The radius from the cylinder to the valve chest is too tight. This feature is made more visible by the oversize drifting valves and the too-thin cylinder heads. 
The tender toolbox is also too tall. The lid should be flush with the top of the tender tank. 

I'm glad Accucraft is fixing some of the issues, and I look forward to seeing the finished model.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, let me see if I have this straight here... We wait 4 years between the initial announcement and the first look at the pre-production model. When we finally see the pictures online, it's riddled with glaring errors, "some" of which are supposedly being corrected in the production models. It makes its debut at a show on the west coast, about 1000 miles from the nearest address one of these models is likely to be shipped to (guessing that's Kevin), far away from the scale rules of anyone who really knows what an EBT locomotive is supposed to look like. Does anyone know if it will be making an appearance on the east coast before the production units arrive? Not that feedback on the pre-production model really matters at this point, since we're only a month away from the latest announced ETA for the production models, so they're presumably well into production by now. 

I don't know guys, Accucraft have never let me down before and I don't want to jump to any conclusions here, but something seems very wrong with this picture. For an engine that has taken 4 years to get to this point, this sure seems like a rush job.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I think the title of this thread should be changed. Oh, that's right, there is a question mark after it. 

Grumble.... 

Larry


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

I spoke to Cliff about getting the current prototype out here and he said doe to the errors its not worth it. Hope the next prototype is all good. Hope they mane another prototype and not just make the changes pointed out and run the production.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

spoke to Cliff about getting the current prototype out here and he said doe to the errors its not worth it 
After all that's been said here, I'm not surprised.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

I think we need to give Cliff and Accucraft the benefit of the doubt. Yes, it's been a long time in the making but this is a very expensive locomotive with a relatively narrow appeal (prototype being a locomotive that only ran on a specific 50 miles or so of track if I understand things correctly). I can understand why this project might not take the priority compared to other Accucraft projects - strikes me as business sense to produce the more popular models first, irritating as that is for the customers who want this locomotive. 

At the very least, let's not judge too harshly until we see the final product. I've no doubt that Cliff had a lot of the same thoughts you guys are expressing when he opened the box the prototype arrived in . . .


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

My bet is that his heart went right through the soles of his shoes... 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Accucraft the benefit of the doubt. 
As I commented earlier, they have never really produced a totally screwed up scale model. Their locos may not have all the fine details of some, but what details they put on are usually accurate in size - like steam domes and cylinders. (Says he, crossing fingers and touching wood . . ) 


prototype being a locomotive that only ran on a specific 50 miles or so of track if I understand things correctly 
Well, maybe only 50 miles, but it's all still there, and the loco was running until the year 2000. It would still be running if they didn't have 5 more Mikes to choose from, 2 of them in better condition. 

strikes me as business sense to produce the more popular models first, irritating as that is for the customers who want this locomotive. 
Yes, but it would have been nice if they had announced in 2007 that it would take 5 year to produce it ! (To add insult to injury, during that period my $$ saved for the loco only accumulated about 0.5% interest!!)


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

My bet is that his heart went right through the soles of his shoes... 
_Tac - nicely put, but you are assuming a west coast train guy would know what an EBT loco was supposed to look like!_


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 31 May 2011 08:56 AM 
(To add insult to injury, during that period my $$ saved for the loco only accumulated about 0.5% interest!!)
Pete,
You should have done what I did, just put it all in ENRON, BRE-X and BCRIC!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 31 May 2011 08:58 AM 
My bet is that his heart went right through the soles of his shoes... 
_Tac - nicely put, but you are assuming a west coast train guy would know what an EBT loco was supposed to look like!_ Pete - I'm a LOT further east than Cliff is west, and even *I* know what #12 is supposed to look like. Just sad for all you EBT guys, is all. 

If Mr Yoder can get it right, and with the maybe that they all come from the same location [who knows?], there really is no excuse why #12 should not be right, even taking into account the necessary modifications to 'translate' it into a working live-steamer.

Alevai #3751 will be right, one day.

Best

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

If Mr Yoder can get it right, and with the maybe that they all come from the same location [who knows?], there really is no excuse why #12 should not be right, even taking into account the necessary modifications to 'translate' it into a working live-steamer. 
There have been discussions around Dr Rivet's track as to whether an Accucraft 'K' live steam boiler will fit inside the RYM #14 . . .


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

Found a video of #12 in action in 1995; some nice detail shots of the engine being serviced at the beginning and end of the run: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAyH6LLGoQo&NR=1


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Found a video of #12 in action in 1995 
Nice video - thanks!


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

I have watched that excellent video of #12 a few times now and have a question. While they are greasing it, there seams to be copious amounts of steam coming from the injector overflow, safety valve, whistle and snifter valves. Is this normal







Is it due to worn seats for the balls? I did notice two different rates of steam from the injector overflow. Is that due to the flow being disrupted and not corrected? I know this was at the end of 12's career before it went in for service so that's why I suspect that things were worn.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Ever watch "Emperor of the North"? Those were 2-8-2 configuration locos I believe. One looked awfully similar to EBT, though since the movie was out west, I doubt it was.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy; 

The only valves that wound normally "breath" when the locomotive is resting are the snifter valves (they are open until steam pressure from the throttle closes them.). The others may not be closing completely because of mineral build up on the valve faces from hard water. This can usually be cured by using lapping compound on the valve faces and lapping the valves. The locomotive is probably just due for some TLC at the roundhouse. Also, what time of the year was the video taken? The man who taught me how to fire and run locomotives explained that somtimes those valves were allowed to leak some steam during the colder months of the year. This would prevent water from freezing in those "extremity" devices and locking up the valve - or worse. 

Hope this helps, 
David Meashey


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

Ever watch "Emperor of the North"? Those were 2-8-2 configuration locos I believe. 

Lifted from a railfan site: 

"The movie was filmed on the Oregon Pacific & Eastern RR in Oregon. They used OP&E's 2-8-2 19 (ex-McCloud River RR) and 2-8-0 5 (ex-Magma Arizona RR) in the film. Both are oil burners, but in an early scene of 19 you see her being fired with coal. A little hollywood trickery along with a set of butterfly firedoors borrowed from ex-Graham County RR 2-truck Shay 1923 (which was on the OP&E property at the time)! Also note that 2-8-0 5 wore several different numbers in the film to appear as a different locomotive." 

I know this information isn't EBT related, but I had fun doing the research. And now I'm going to order the movie through Netflix.  I now return you back to your regularly scheduled E.B.T. thread. 

Scott


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

That being said... how do the EBT engines compare to the Locos used by logging railways out west? did similar engines exist? how close were they? Being an Easterner I do not really know, but the books I have collected seem to show engines of similar size at least on standard gauge lines how about 3 footers?


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Thanks, Dave that's kind of what I figured. That makes sense to about keeping things warm in winter. I would still like to hear some explanation on the injectors and when they should have steam over flow. 

As for "Emperor of the North" , What a great movie! We (some train buddies and I ) just had movie night with that as the feature presentation. Great story and tons of rail action all the way through. From what I can tell those loco's still exist but I don't think they are running anywhere right now. They were lookers.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy; 

Railroad slang for the injector is the "gun." The Porters I fired and ran had injectors with bodies that actually resembled some of the light, railing-mounted cannons on the old sailing ships. Each injector had two levers: one for the water and one for the steam. To run the injector, I first had to open the lever for the water, then slooooooowly open the lever for the steam - until I could hear the injector "catch" (i.e. start propelling water). After that, I opened the steam valve fully. 

Now this is just a guess, BUT the steam valve was set vertically. An engineer or fireman could easily bump the valve slightly with his arm or gauntlet cuff and open the steam very slightly. With no water to pump (water valve still closed), the steam would most likely divert to the overflow pipe. Like I stated above, just a guess. 

Best, 
David Meashey


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

how do the EBT engines compare to the Locos used by logging railways out west? 

The Sumpter Valley -- built to haul timber in Oregon -- had a bunch of 3' gauge Mikes (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACQajVeQ2qU for one of the preserved engines in action). SV's No. 19 looks around the same size...maybe the cab roof's a little taller than the EBT engines, but the overall size is pretty close.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

how do the EBT engines compare to the Locos used by logging railways out west? did similar engines exist? how close were they? 
The other similar Mikado(s) is/were on the White Pass and Yukon (several are now at Dollywood, apparently,) and Sumpter Valley #19 and #20 ended up there. 
The WP&Y survivor has 44" drivers though - EBT specified 48" on all their locos after they bought #7, a 2-8-0 C-19 originally destined for the D&RGW. It was too slippery, they said. Probably because (a) it rains in central PA and (b) there's a lot of trees around the EBT. Not to mention snow and ice... 
_And to return to your regularly scheduled program - I just checked Accucraft's 'Product Update' and they are now saying EBT #12 ETA July 2011._


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

I'm sure people would like to think that the July delivery date is right -- but that's on a Product Update that still has a May 20, 2011 publication date which was about the time the errors were discovered. I would be very surprised if they could make the corrections, revise the prototype, ship it back to California for final OK, start up production, and get the locos here by boat -- in just a few more weeks. My guess is that it ain't gonna happen and that September/October would be more realistic. 

Now if they decide to ignore some of the errors, then July might be possible, but Accucraft would be risking a lot. For the folks holding reservations, I hope ACC takes the time to fix it right. So let's see what happens. 

Ross Schlabach


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

I have one of these on order. My dealer sent me an email this morning saying that the issues with the cosmetic details on top of the boiler, the oversized smoke box and the undersized cylinder castings have all been fixed. No mention of the valve gear issues.

A new production sample is on the way to the US in the next few days - anyone going to the Sacramento steamup - please take your video and still cameras with you . . . I'd come along but sadly I don't have the time or the spare cash for the 14 hour each way flight!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

My dealer called me yesterday, said Cliff told him they'd be on the docks by the end of July. Then a few weeks to clear customs and they should be here. 

Now, anyone want an 0-4-0? 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Shoppin...1/agentType/View/PropertyID/1122/Default.aspx 

Later, 

K


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Gary Woolard posted this photo in his thread about the NSS (Click HERE for the thread and more of his excellent photos of the NSS and a couple more EBT shots)










There are some obvious differences in the sizes of the domes and it does look more realistic to my eye. What do people think? Personally I will be delighted to receive one of these monsters when it's finally shipped!


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

That looks much better! Looks like the valve gear is still backwards, but all in all it's a huge improvement. I'm looking forward to receiving mine!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

My dealer called to say the shipment arrives Monday. 

He also said he understood I didn't want one as I was fed up off waiting. I think he was joking . .


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Will the K4s be on that too?


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Who knows? No mention has been made about the K4s... 

Anyhow, right now you have to concentrate on your Mike. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

How many different engines do you own again Tac?


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, let's have your impression once you have yours and have fired it. 

Since I want the unlettered version, I will be waiting for the next container, per my dealer. 

Larry


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

The Accucraft store shows the lettered version "IN-STOCK" They shoukld be shipping soon!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

They shoukld be shipping soon! 
I was asked to confirm my address as they were shipping Wed/Thurs. And that was Monday so the container must have arrived... 

Larry - I'm not sure when I'll get chance to run it :-( No track here. I'm sure someone else will be firing up long before I do. 

But I'll post some photos when I get it unpacked.


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

While waiting for my loco to arrive I found this video from NSS.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Cool to see it in motion. Now, to see it in my living room... 

Later, 

K


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Nice find, thanks! A few others seem to have popped up too - it appears some lucky customers have started receiving theirs. I've got weeks to wait for mine, getting a whistle fitted amoung other things . . .

The train is running a fair bit slower in this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XcdFX_WD9g 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XcdFX_WD9g


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The train is running a fair bit slower in this clip: 
There are 3 or 4 clips of #12 on 'prrnut2''s Youtube channel, uploaded A WEEK ago - how did he get his hands on one? (Can you tell what color I am this morning?) 

And for you K4 lovers, he has two videos of the new PRR K4 in action. http://youtu.be/NoEzsrQjwzk


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Guessing he had access to the pre-production models.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm looking out my office window, I see a UPS truck out front, and the guy is unloading a big box that says "fragile" on one end, and there's an "AT" on the side! The anticipation builds...


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Oh my goodness...


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

The UPS guy is one of my favorite people. I love to see the brown truck stop in front of my house. 

Steve


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Posted By rwjenkins on 09 Aug 2011 09:54 AM 
I'm looking out my office window, I see a UPS truck out front, and the guy is unloading a big box that says "fragile" on one end, and there's an "AT" on the side! The anticipation builds...

















So, the question is, what excuse are you going to use to get home early?


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## prrnut (Jul 31, 2011)

You may have noticed my post's on U Tube several days ago of the E.B.T. #12 and The P.R.R K4 that Accucraft is importing very soon. These locomotives are the production models and were flown in to the US for the Summer Steam Up.
I had the pleasure of steaming these after the show at Dan Liebowitz layout this past week with Cliffs blessing. Both steamed very well with no problems out of the box. As you can see they steam well and pulled any train I put behind them.
I was exciting to run them and I am sure you will also. Look for that brown truck to arrive as some one said.
Take Care Bill Baxley
[email protected]


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, she's here...











Unfortunately, she didn't make the trip unscathed. The dark patch on the smokebox below the headlight in the photo above is a small dent. Worse yet...










Also, the smokebox door doesn't seem to want to close properly, looks like they might have had a problem positioning the retaining clip (note the screw hole in the rim of the door next to the clip)...










The backwards valve gear was unfortunately not one of the things they fixed from the pre-production model (they even engineered an extra-tall Johnson bar stand in order to achieve this error), but it seems like it should be a relatively simple matter of setting the return cranks to the correct position and changing the pivot point on the Johnson bar to fix that.


Otherwise though, it's a lovely loco. Some observations right off the bat:

[*]Nicely proportioned (don't have specific measurements in front of me here to compare to, but it definitely captures the look of the prototype better than the first pre-production model did)
[*]Beautiful satin finish and crisp lettering[*]Roomy cab that just begs for R/C, and there's even a compartment in the tender perfect for R/C gear, and the whole tender deck lifts off for access to the fuel tank, water pump and rear compartment[*]lots of space in the smokebox for a big Bark Box (or similar) chuff enhancer.[/list]I could write a lot more, but I'm still at work here, so for now I'll just leave you with a few more pics. More later...


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Nice!!! As I was viewing your pics, my dealer called me to let me know the brown truck dropped mine off at his house. No time to run up there to pick it up before having to head into work, but will meet him out at the RR museum tomorrow to pick it up. (Maybe I'll bring some butane with me...... 

Later, 

K


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Richard, nice pics. I wasn't aware that the EBT had a cab door that opened from the top and bottom outward. They really did have some cool gadgets back then. 


On a more serious note, it sure is a good thing that in our hobby, customer satisfaction is at the forefront.


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## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Very nice, great pictures too! 

I have been interested to see when these arrive, looks like the big wait has been worth it! 

Hopefully someone will post some pictures of a EBT train being pulled by #12. 

Alec.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like they did a number on the valve handles forward of the cab.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

The valve handles are more-or-less ok, the three that look like they're bent so the edge is facing you are actually T-handles instead of wheels.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

"No track here". Pete, come on up to Weybridge Vermont for a visit--my track is available and my three regular visiting steamers and I will keep you company. And, maybe I can get to play with yours while waiting for mine for a few more weeks. 

Larry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Alec, hopefully tomorrow night. I'm going to bring some hoppers and a caboose with me to the museum tomorrow when I pick mine up. 

Later, 

K


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Richard, 

Could you please measure the locomotive and tender for total length coupler to coupler I would appericate it.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Richard, 

Thanks for the pics. Sorry to see the damage done to the cab - I'm hoping it's easily fixed and that this won't be typical of the models. Mine has to cross the pacific twice . . . doesn't really say much for the packaging. 

With regards to R/C - Accucraft advertise this as being "R/C Ready". I can't really see how, on the strength of these photos. Though a space in the tender is a positive sign, I would have expected there to be mounting brackets or something in the cab to take servos . . . is there anything of the sort? 

Anyone with the loco - any chance of a photo of the cab taken from behind so we can see the layout? Would be much appreciated!


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By nadnerbster on 09 Aug 2011 05:53 PM 
Richard, 

Thanks for the pics. Sorry to see the damage done to the cab - I'm hoping it's easily fixed and that this won't be typical of the models. Mine has to cross the pacific twice . . . doesn't really say much for the packaging. 
The packaging is the classic Accuraft foam-and-tissue-and-packing tape cocoon securing the engine to a wooden base bolted into a steel carrier, inside a cardboard box, inside the red-and-black "Silver Stream Series" cardboard sleeve, engine and tender boxes side-by-side in the shipping box surrounded by black foam. Should be practically bulletproof, so the cab damage is pretty surprising. I doubt it'll be a widespread problem unless something happened to the shipping container they came over in. 
With regards to R/C - Accucraft advertise this as being "R/C Ready". I can't really see how, on the strength of these photos. Though a space in the tender is a positive sign, I would have expected there to be mounting brackets or something in the cab to take servos . . . is there anything of the sort? 
I think pretty much all Accucraft models are described as "R/C Ready", guess that's as opposed to "R/C Already"! I've converted 4 different engines so far (C-16, K-27, Mimi, S-12 and I have a K-28 on the workbench for my dad. They pretty much leave you to your own devices as far as figuring out where you want to mount your servos and how you want to connect them. The EBT Mikado is no different in that regard, but after shoehorning a couple of servos into the cab of the S-12, this one should be a walk in the park. Considering the real #12 is one of those Baldwin "deckless" cabs (backhead extends all the way to the rear of the cab), there might actually be more space in the cab of the model than there is on the real one! 

Anyone with the loco - any chance of a photo of the cab taken from behind so we can see the layout? Would be much appreciated! Here you go...

















Sorry I have the deck plate up on the rear one to show the "020" sticker on the bottom. Guess that's the serial number? Couldn't see a builder's plate anywhere on the bottom like my K-27 has. Unfortunately I forgot to take a picture with the deck plate down. The hose going into the burner is the water hose connected to the check valve. Apparently they tucked it into the burner to secure it for shipping.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

With regards to R/C - Accucraft advertise this as being "R/C Ready". I can't really see how, on the strength of these photos. Though a space in the tender is a positive sign, I would have expected there to be mounting brackets or something in the cab to take servos . . . is there anything of the sort? 
I think pretty much all Accucraft models are described as "R/C Ready", guess that's as opposed to "R/C Already"! I've converted 4 different engines so far (C-16, K-27, Mimi, S-12 and I have a K-28 on the workbench for my dad. They pretty much leave you to your own devices as far as figuring out where you want to mount your servos and how you want to connect them. The EBT Mikado is no different in that regard, but after shoehorning a couple of servos into the cab of the S-12, this one should be a walk in the park. Considering the real #12 is one of those Baldwin "deckless" cabs (backhead extends all the way to the rear of the cab), there might actually be more space in the cab of the model than there is on the real one! 



My guess is that the "RC Ready" part is referring to the 2 RC style horns, one on the throttle shaft and the other on the gas valve.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By rwjenkins on 09 Aug 2011 07:05 PM 

I think pretty much all Accucraft models are described as "R/C Ready", guess that's as opposed to "R/C Already"! I've converted 4 different engines so far (C-16, K-27, Mimi, S-12 and I have a K-28 on the workbench for my dad. They pretty much leave you to your own devices as far as figuring out where you want to mount your servos and how you want to connect them. 

Richard, not so on Accucraft Germany (Mr Schug). All there Saxonian engines IK, IIIK, and VIK, are equipped with servo mounts. Best, Zubi


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nutz-n-Bolts on 09 Aug 2011 07:29 PM 
My guess is that the "RC Ready" part is referring to the 2 RC style horns, one on the throttle shaft and the other on the gas valve. 
You know, I that's a good point, I hadn't even noticed that they've gone back to horns on this one instead of the knobs they've been using for the last few years! My C-16 had horns, my K-27 (final batch from 2005) has knobs as have all the others I've seen since then. I'm not honestly sure which I prefer. The knobs were a bit less conspicuous, and I've gone over to sprocket-and-chain throttle linkages in all my R/C conversions and don't R/C the gas valve anyway so there's no real advantage to the horns from an R/C standpoint. On the other hand, I guess anything is an improvement over the metal knobs they used on the Climax. The throttle knob got unbearably hot when running. I very quickly swapped it with the plastic gas valve knob from another engine.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks for the pics Richard! 

I'm guessing the number 20 is referring to the number that the locomotive is in the batch? They're only producing 80 according to the literature I've seen . . . 

It doesn't look very "R/C Ready" to me. To be fair, in my case if the hole hasn't been pre-drilled and threaded, and the screw not provided, then it's fairly unlikely that I'll be able to do much . . . I'm trying to change that. Certainly looks like there's plenty of room, but I can't see where to attach a server to control the throttle, and the johnson bar, while theres heaps of space, doesn't look ready for R/C attachments . . . . Ah well - I've told my vendor to see what they can do, I don;t want to muck it up myself . . . 

Can't imagine why you'd R/C the gas valve, unless you wanted an emergency shutoff or something.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

They're only producing 80 according to the literature I've seen . . . 
80??? They barely got orders for the 25 minimum they wanted to go forward on this, hence a good part of the 4-year wait we've endured. 

I'm actually looking forward to being able to control the gas valve remotely. You couldn't do that in years past because of the glitching, but the Spektrum stuff takes care of that. Now I should be able to fine-tune the gas to compensate for changes in pressure of the gas tank without having stop the loco, and without fear of glitching shutting off the gas supply and blowing out my fire. 

We'll see what happens over the winter. For the summer, I think I'll be content to run it as-is. (I think...) 

For now, off to take the kids to school, then over to the museum to pick up the loco. Happy Happy Joy Joy!!! 

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I think I'll be content to run it as-is. 
I got quite depressed seeing all those pretty pictures. I just blackened the white board edges, those brass boiler bands and the roof (plus the rest of the loco) on my #14, Looks like I'll have to do it all over again!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Oh, a bit too much???

Seriously, I haven't had a chance to compare the loco to photos/drawings for the "rivet counter" aspect of things, but she looks great and runs even better. A surprisingly little amount of gas kept the pressure pegged at 60psi, and the tender pump makes keeping the boiler full of water a breeze. It took me about 30 minutes to un-coccoon the loco, about 20 to prep it, and about 10 minutes to get 30psi on the gauge--enough to start off. From there, it was very hands off, with just slight adjustments to the throttle to get it to a nice, steady speed--probably around 20 scale MPH on the level because I needed to give it just enough tthrottle to get up and over a few hills on the track. (It's not 100% level). Photos and video will be posted later tonight/tomorrow AM. 

Oh, mine's serial # 34, so unless they skiped some numbers, they made more than 25. 

The guys from model-railroad.tv happened to be at the museum shooting today, and got some shots of its inaugural run. They say it will be a month or so before they have it online. 

Later,

K


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

That is great news Kevin. 
I am still waiting for the Brown truck to see if mine comes today.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Posted By East Broad Top on 10 Aug 2011 03:41 PM 

























Oh, a bit too much???

Seriously, I haven't had a chance to compare the loco to photos/drawings for the "rivet counter" aspect of things, but she looks great and runs even better. A surprisingly little amount of gas kept the pressure pegged at 60psi, and the tender pump makes keeping the boiler full of water a breeze. It took me about 30 minutes to un-coccoon the loco, about 20 to prep it, and about 10 minutes to get 30psi on the gauge--enough to start off. From there, it was very hands off, with just slight adjustments to the throttle to get it to a nice, steady speed--probably around 20 scale MPH on the level because I needed to give it just enough tthrottle to get up and over a few hills on the track. (It's not 100% level). Photos and video will be posted later tonight/tomorrow AM. 

Oh, mine's serial # 34, so unless they skiped some numbers, they made more than 25. 

The guys from model-railroad.tv happened to be at the museum shooting today, and got some shots of its inaugural run. They say it will be a month or so before they have it online. 

Later,

K


Sounds like a satisfied customer . . . !


I'm hoping I'm not getting too irritating with my questions, but I've still got several weeks to wait for mine 

Some that have sprung to mind today include:

-What sort of run time are you getting from each gas refill? How long will it run before you need to pump more water? I know these locos haven't been run in yet but it shouldn't make that massive a difference . . .

- How does it track; Does it tolerate poor trackwork? Can it manage the advertised 4' radius curves? What's the suspension like?

Happy steaming gentlemen! This Sunday I'm going to get to work in the back yard and hopefully set the foundations for a line for this beastie to run on . . .


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Mark, the loco's 35" from tip to tip, including couplers. All key dimensions are pretty much spot-on when compared to the Ed Collins drawings of #12. 

As for the gas and water, I'm still trying to get a feel for that myself. I will say that in steaming the loco for the better part of 2 hours straight, I "filled" the gas tank up twice, and still had gas left when I things down. I'm not 100% sure I truly filled the tank each time, as (a) it's HUGE, and (b) I never got the venting that I'd get with my other gas tanks. However, I was also using a different butane can than I have been used to, with its own filler tip, not my usual brass one. Don't know if that makes a difference. As for water, it seems to be fairly conservative on water as well, though with the size of that boiler, that could be relative. (I'm used to Roundhouses and Rubies.) Keep an eye on the sight glass and pump water in occasionally to fill it. During my run, I filled the boiler to around 3/4 on the sight glass, and filled the tender up to half with more water. By the end of the run, I emptied the tender into the boiler, and was down to about half on the sight glass. 

The loco is sprung on all drivers, and seems to track very well. I don't know about how it does on 4' radius, as the museum track is somewhere on the order of 10' minimum. It was very smooth through the switches, though. 

In terms of being "R/C Ready," there's a space to the rear of the tender to put R/C gear and what looks to be around a 3/8" or so tube that runs along the floor of the fuel/water part of the tender so you can pass wires through to the front of the tender. I haven't played with that yet to see if it's large enough for a servo plug to pass through. Beyond that, there's no accommodation in the cab for mounting servos that I can see, though it does appear to be ample room for two micro servos to move the appropriate levers. 

Working on pics and video... 

Later, 

K


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Richard, it was sad to see that first picture of your engine. As I see it, it appears that the cab floor is bent down at the back left. If so, IMHO the possibility of hidden damage would suggest the full replacement of the engine. Is that what Cliff is planning to do? 

Regards, 

Ross Schlabach


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 11 Aug 2011 04:40 PM 
Richard, it was sad to see that first picture of your engine. As I see it, it appears that the cab floor is bent down at the back left. If so, IMHO the possibility of hidden damage would suggest the full replacement of the engine. Is that what Cliff is planning to do? 

The cab floor is fine, but the left side running board has a slight upwards bend towards the rear, giving the illusion that the cab floor is bent down. The only major damage seems to be the front wall of the cab, so I have taken the cab off to send to Cliff for repairs (easier for all involved than re-packing and shipping the whole engine and risking further damage). The little dent in the smokebox is very minor, hardly noticeable under most lighting conditions, and I was able to solve the smokebox door issues myself. Still haven't had a chance to run her yet though!


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin,
Your post doesn't show up here in either Firefox or Explorer.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

We'll try posting the video, take 2... 



Later, 

K


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Ah, that's better... 

The loco in the video is cruising a bit faster than what I'd consider "prototypical," but not having R/C on the throttle, I couldn't nudge it down and shoot the video at the same time. 

Some stills: 























































If you're going to be near the Colorado RR Museum on Saturday, I'll be there with the loco for the Sidestreet Bannerworks/DGRS steam-up until around 1:30 or so. 

Later, 

K


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## alecescolme (Dec 20, 2010)

Very nice- very good runner! 

Did you have to swap out the original couplers to work with the 1/32nd couplers? 

Alec.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Nice pics and video! Good to see it running at a more realistic clip. Loco seems to have a quiet chuff . . . I'm one that likes louder chuff noises due to my dodgy hearing, but my whistle ought to help compensate for that . . . 

Is that the railroad museum near Golden? I went there on my US trip in 2003 . . . I seem to remember the gauge 1 tracks as not having any scenery, has there been work done on this or is my memory just faulty?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin; 

I suppose this is a really stupid question, but I am bothered by the set-up of the injectors. I suppose they are just detail parts. Did the engine crew really have to leave the cab when they needed to run an injector? I will admit that my experience with real steamers is limited, but all three of the locomotives I ran had the injectors inside the cab. I would suppose that if the injectors were located outside the cab, their controls would still be brought into the cab in some fashion. To my way or thinking, having to leave the cab of a moving locomotive to run the injector presents a really bad safety hazard. 

Thanks in advance, 
David Meashey


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm one that likes louder chuff noises 
The EBT mikes are very quiet engines in operation. After watching Kevin's video, I'm wondering whether to fit a chuffer - it sounds pretty good as it is. (Larry? You listenin'?)


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Alec - I haven't swapped out the couplers yet. I need to leave the loco "as is" until I finish my review for _Garden Railways,_ then it's off to the shop for some basic stuff like proper couplers. (Fortunately, the Kadee #1 couplers mate reasonably well with the Accucraft couplers.) Other immediate improvements will be black paint on the rims and hubs, proper wood treads on the running boards, and removing the sun visors which were never on the prototype. The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking I'll just back-date the appearance of this one to its 30s-era appearance as opposed to going all the way back to its "as built" appearance as I had originally planned. That means painting the white trim and boiler bands black as opposed to the dark olive green with plannished iron boiler jacket in which it was delivered. (Similar to my models of EBT nos. 1 and 3) It'd look great, I'm sure, but as I look at the fittings on the boiler, I think it would involve pretty much a complete disassembly of the locomotive to get things down to where I could paint and buff the boiler to the proper finish. Don't know that I'm "up" for that. Besides, since I've also got 30's-era Tuscarora RR locos, I "need" a proper 30's-era EBT loco to compliment them. I'll have EBT #7 and ultimately #11 as my "big power" in the c. 1910 appearance. 

nadnerbster - Yep, that's the one. The portion of the live steam loop that has scenery is pretty much limited to that little strip of buildings. There's talk of re-decking the entire loop with Trex to level out the track, but I'm hoping I may convince them to leave some ballast along this stretch so to give us a realistic area to take photos of our locos. As for the chuff, it is very quiet, even when starting out. A Bark Box or similar, I think, would greatly enhance things. 

Dave - the prototype has extensions that run from the injectors back into the cab. It's on "the list" of additions, along with sanding levers. 

Later, 

K


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Richard, it is very nice of you to offer to keep a damaged locomotive to avoid risks of further shipping damage, but Accucraft should send you a new engine, no questions asked, and they should be the ones to worry about return shipping damage -- not you. The only circumstances when someone might "have" to consider keeping a damaged engine is when they are sold out and no replacements available. 

Americans are constantly being shipped damaged or substandard goods and are pressured or feel they have no real option but to accept these goods. On our recent kitchen re-model, we ended up rejecting 6 ranges before we finally got one that was put together properly and worked as it should. We stuck to our guns and made the manufacturer provide the quality merchandise he was advertising. You wouldn't buy a new car that already has a dent in its hood. Why should you have to accept a damaged locomotive? 

Since there will be permanent damage to your engine, its value will be reduced. You paid for a first quality engine and should get one -- one with no damage. I think if you speak with Cliff, he will see to it that your engine is replaced with an undamaged one. Accucraft has always "made it right" for other posters to this forum. They should make it right for you too. 

Regards, 

Ross Schlabach


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Ross, I agree with you 100%. 'Nuff said. 

Larry


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 13 Aug 2011 06:37 AM 
Richard, it is very nice of you to offer to keep a damaged locomotive to avoid risks of further shipping damage, but Accucraft should send you a new engine, no questions asked, and they should be the ones to worry about return shipping damage -- not you. The only circumstances when someone might "have" to consider keeping a damaged engine is when they are sold out and no replacements available. 

Americans are constantly being shipped damaged or substandard goods and are pressured or feel they have no real option but to accept these goods. On our recent kitchen re-model, we ended up rejecting 6 ranges before we finally got one that was put together properly and worked as it should. We stuck to our guns and made the manufacturer provide the quality merchandise he was advertising. You wouldn't buy a new car that already has a dent in its hood. Why should you have to accept a damaged locomotive? 

Since there will be permanent damage to your engine, its value will be reduced. You paid for a first quality engine and should get one -- one with no damage. I think if you speak with Cliff, he will see to it that your engine is replaced with an undamaged one. Accucraft has always "made it right" for other posters to this forum. They should make it right for you too. 

Regards, 

Ross Schlabach 

If only the cab was damaged you could probably just send that back and Cliff will get you a new one. If it's more than that then it's best to return the whole engine.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Sending stuff back the the dealer is fine and dandy when you live in the USA, but from bitter experience, I can tell you that sending anything back from anywhere else - like yUK - means that you have to pay ALL the taxes again before you can lay your paws on the replacement, just like it was the first new model. 

If I had sent my Hudson back to Cliff when it arrived it would have cost me around $400 to send and insure. Getting the replacement back would have cost me around $800 - the amount it cost me in the first place to call it mine after it arrived here in yUK. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac why do you think it should cost YOU anything? They as the shipper are responsible. How do you know it didn't leave the factory that way? I don't understand this line of thinking, where it should cost YOU an extra 20% of the purchase price to receive an acceptable product?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

They as the shipper are responsible 
Jeff, 
The shipper isn't usually responsible for local taxes. Tac has to pay import duties when it arrives.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Is that because there are NO Accucraft dealers in the UK ?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Is that because there are NO Accucraft dealers in the UK ? 
No. Everyone pays import duties. Accucraft pays duty on importing the locos into the USA - but they only pay on the value of the loco, which is at 'wholesale' - or even better, at internal transfer cost - between their factory and distribution office in CA. 

Accucraft UK pays duties, but again it is on the 'wholesale' value not the retail, end-user price. Tac's problem is that Accucraft UK chose not to offer the Canadian loco, so he had to buy it from a USA dealer (right, Tac?) 

Accucraft doesn't offer all the UK models here either, nor do they sell the german models made for Schug.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

So if the UK dealer refuses to import the model, then it becomes a "gray market item" with an 800.00 deductible on the warranty or no warranty? Wow that sucks.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

So if the UK dealer refuses to import the model 
Jeff, 

I don't think it is that he "refuses". Every model comes with $$ baggage - parts, marketing expenses, warranty repairs, stock/storage costs, customer service (answering the phone to people who have never fired a live steamer before, etc.,) The dealer makes a decision based on his expected market. MBV Schug thinks he can sell the Saxonians, so he commits to 50 (or whatever the minimum is these days.) Carolwood committed to 50 FWRR/Ruby variants, (and sold 175.) The Gauge 1Model Co in the UK committed to the "Britannia" model, but Accucraft was under no obligation to offer it in the USA - but they disovered some latent demand and made it available. 

So I guess you could call Tac's Royal Hudson a 'gray market item' but that is stretching it. In most such cases, the manufacturer refuses to deal with the buyer of a gray market item (I got a Denon car radio like that without realising, once! Never again.) Accucraft will help and service his loco, but he's still responsible for the import duties, and probably shipping back to the factory (or maybe not - I haven't read the warranty recently!)


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 14 Aug 2011 08:35 AM 

Accucraft UK pays duties, but again it is on the 'wholesale' value not the retail, end-user price. Tac's problem is that Accucraft UK chose not to offer the Canadian loco, so he had to buy it from a USA dealer (right, Tac?) 

Pete,
I believe that that is incorrect 
I am sure that Tac will correct me if I am wrong.
One just has to look in the G1MRA Newsletter to see that D.P.Associates have been advertising the Accucraft Royal Hudson ever since first announce, so I assume that they are the UK Dealer for this locomotive..
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I am sure that Tac will correct me if I am wrong
_I'm sure too. 
_
But Ian Pearse is the UK Accucraft Dealer, so D.P. Associates are 'gray market' and their website only mentions MTH Railking? Do they honor the warranty on Accucraft locos?


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Good morning, Gentlemen. Mr Leech is partly correct - D.P Associates DO seem to import non-British outline AccuCraft models at a favourable price. However, they are situated outside the United Kingdom. The Channel Islands, of which their home island, Jersey, is the largest, are not in the UK, but are a Crown Dependency exempt from UK taxes, as they point out in their advertisement. In other words, they will offer the model at the advertised price, but the customer is entirely responsible for any costs accrued thereafter. I recently had cause to contact them after enquiring about the supply of a G1 MTH PA set and was less than enthralled to learn that I'd have to wait for it to come from the USA, and in any case it was the same price as any dealer on mainland GB. 

Back to the matter of taxes - They CAN be quite substantial, as we can see below. 

The main UK tax imposed by this grateful government on its citizens is Vampire Added Tax - VAT [actually Value Added Tax] and is levied at a fixed rate of 20% on just about everything, but not in a rational way. Fuel [gasoline and diesel and so on], is taxed at 60%, BTW. 

The last issue of the G1MRA newsletter in which they advertised the Hudson was Issue 228 - Winter 2010-11, for the rather tempting and optimistic price of £3440.00. Add to that the VAT, and you end up paying £4128.00. Right? 

Wrong. 

What Border Command, or whatever they are called today, actually do is this - 

1. Take the price as advertised, in this case, £3440.00 

2. Levy an importation tax figure that appears to have been grasped from the imagination of the agent - let's just say a more than reasonable 10% of the purchase price - £344.00. 
3. Add to that total so far, the cost of the shipping and insurance - let's be generous, and say £75.00 - it's a BIG box. 

4. Add it ALL up - £3859.00 

Now the GOOD bit - apply the VAT - £771.00 - to this entire figure - the result is £4630.00, or at today's rate of $1.62 - $7500.60 

Add to that the compulsory Parcel Farce 'handling charge' of £8.00, too. That is called spitting in your eye while they pee in your hat, BTW. 

Hmmm. Not such a bargain now, it is? 

It is my one-off experience that they appear to be no more than a convenient mail box for foreign-sourced merchandise - a dealer in boxes that happen to contain model trains rather than shoes or office furniture. But if I am wrong, then of course, I apologise unreservedly. However, I very much doubt that they are able to undertake any warranty work on a damaged item - after all, who is going to hold spares for such an item apart from the original importers in the USA? In truth, I have no idea if they have a direct link either with Mr Cheng or Mr Luscher either - perhaps I malign them, entirely without prejudice though. Even so, sending a large item like that back to them would cost the buyer as much as it did to get it in the fust place, namely ~£75, and on its eventual return it would in all probability re-attract the attention of the border command vultu- agents - another £771.00. Telling them that it is your own property being returned after repair may or may not be taken as the truth. They are a suspicious lot in some respects - after all, you appear to have imported TWO very expensive toy trains in a short period of time from an off-shore 'tax-free' source - what are you REALLY doing with them? 

Anybody else's experiences in dealing with the gentlemen on Jersey would be gratefully received. 

Meanwhile, another AccuCraft dealer can be found on another Crown Dependency - this one is on the Isle of Man, located between mainland GB and the island of Ireland. Those who have dealt with this company seem to have avoided paying all the PITA taxes that may be levied on items coming from the Channel Islands, but again I have no dealings with him with a warranty claim. He makes a single, low, shipping charge on any item, too regardless of the size. Meanwhile, AccuCraft UK have authorised certain persons to carry out repairs on the AccuCraft UK line of models on their behalf - this is all the common or garden range that we associate with AccuCraft UK. However, in the case of the EBT #whatever, repairs on what may well be the only model of its kind in the entire UK might be problematical. 

tac 
NB - _This post is made in accordance with the somewhat liberal nature of the internet, and is not in any way intended to be binding, determinative, libellous, nefarious, aspersion-casting, critical, or anything else in like fashion. 

It IS, without doubt, not only cynical, but the truth based on my own experiences of buying this precise item from a well-respected dealer in the US, for whose service I have nothing but praise. _


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac, I may need permission to reprint your post as part of a political add to relieve us from the grips of our socialist leaning man in the oval office.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Not just to get this thread back on track, but has anyone else out there taken delivery of an EBT 12? 

Larry


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

And to get the thread even further back on track: Does anyone know whether the unlettered versions have arrived yet?


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

That's what I'm waiting for--my dealer says the next container, maybe end of month. 

Larry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

The Accucraft site separates the EBT #12 Electric & Live Steam (AL87-161) [in stock] from the "EBT #12 Electric & Live Steam (AL87-160)" which is still 'due July 2011'. The latter is your unlettered version. 

The west coast guys got theirs last week. I have a UPS tracking number and estimated arrival is 8/18 (Thursday.)


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Cool! I expect a photo showing #12 and #14 side by side in short order. 

Later, 

K


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

My tracking # is showing a Wednesday delivery.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By RP3 on 13 Aug 2011 06:37 AM 
Richard, it is very nice of you to offer to keep a damaged locomotive to avoid risks of further shipping damage. 

Regards, 

Ross Schlabach 
Nice? Nah, just too lazy to pack it all up again and drag it down to the post office or nearest UPS location or wait around for the UPS guy to come and pick it up, when all I really need to do is loosen a few screws, take off the damaged cab, and send that off instead. Plus this way I still have the rest of the engine to play with in the meantime! Speaking of which, this past weekend I finally got a chance to do just that, and I have to echo Kevin's sentiments...

Posted By East Broad Top on 10 Aug 2011 03:41 PM 

























Oh, a bit too much???
Too much? No Kevin, I think you pretty much nailed it right there!



















Yes she would have looked better with the cab on her, but I am absolutely thrilled with the way this engine ran right out of the box, she runs smoothly even at very low speeds, pulls like a champ, and tracks well even when backing through switches.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

when all I really need to do is loosen a few screws, take off the damaged cab 
Well, that's also good news for all us guys preparing to add r/c. My C-19 looks like a bear to get the cab off, as the lubricator and stuff are in the way.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I expect a photo showing #12 and #14 side by side in short order. 
And a complete #20 too? Lot of work getting done while I wait for the rain to stop and #12 to arrive. 

But this weekend we got visitors, so I don't know when I'll get chance to take some pics. I'm short of a good background too...


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

In spite of the lack of a cab it is STILL one beautiful-looking locomotive. Got plenty of room for a working headlight in there, too. Still makes me wonder how many here would have liked to have seen #73, the White Pass Mike. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

If anything, I imagine we might be more likely to see a White Pass engine from Accucraft now that they have a proven inside-frame narrow-gauge Mikado mechanism to work from. They're going to run out of Colorado prototypes sooner or later, but if the East Broad Top engines have been sluggish sellers, they'll probably be more inclined to stick with West Coast prototypes in the future. Seems like a White Pass Mike would fit the bill nicely.


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## MFS (Aug 22, 2011)

It took me a while to get signed up. First effort never got a verification code. 

I have been following this topic since Accucraft called me to tell me that the EBT #12 was coming in the June time frame. Found it on Google. I ordered/placed a deposit on an Accucraft EBT#12 on July 19, 2007 and I received the locomotive from Accucraft on August 8th. The dealer I placed the order with went out of business and Accucraft handled the order. The locomotive had minor damage to the left front, broken pilot brace, marker light, and bent lower handrail on the smokebox. The reversing lever also hit the running board going into forward (opened up the running board with a needle file). Not bad overall. A call to Accucraft and soon replacement parts were sent and are now on the engine. Cannof fault the Accucraft service. The engine looks great. I have now run the engine twice on rollers. Excellent runner. I will have a chance over Labor Day weekend to run it on a track at a pre-Narrow Gauge Convention steamup in SC. My outside, ground level track is out of the ground being repaired (hand laid on redwood ties), so can't try it their yet. It will be interesting when I get the track back in as it has a 6' radius. The engine did roll along the 6' radius track I have rebuilt with no indications of binding, but running will tell. Not tried to roll in through the turnouts yet. 

I would like to thank everybody posting to this topic for the photos, videos, and discussions about #12 over the last several weeks. 

Best Regards to all, MFS


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

If anything, I imagine we might be more likely to see a White Pass engine from Accucraft 
And how many years will we have to wait for that? 



since Accucraft called me to tell me that the EBT #12 was coming 
Royce tells me he has 2 x EBT #12 Live Steam for the old, early price ($3K I believe.)


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

"I'm not sure when I'll get chance to run it :-( No track here." 

Pete, have you steamed her yet? Dr. Rivet isn't too far from you, isn't he?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, have you steamed her yet? Dr. Rivet isn't too far from you, isn't he? 
Ah, you guessed the secret. I talked to Dr Rivet a few days ago, when he got back from a weekend steamup in NY, and we're scheduled for the 31st. I'm taking Andy as he just got one too and hasn't seen the track. 

Larry - you still need the Chuffer specs?


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, sure, I'll take the chuffer info. I want to try one in my engine, even if the prototypes are quiet runners. Still no word on arrival of the unlettered ones. 

Good steaming at Jim's. 

Larry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'll be interested in a chuffer for mine as well... 

BTW, if the fire ever goes out in the left flue (the one the steam line runs through) you'll notice REAL quick. 

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll be interested in a chuffer for mine as well... 
I noticed the steam pipe is connected very visibly in the smokebox - easy to remove we hope? 

I sent Larry and Chris the specs for the chuffer. My C-19 has a real high bark, which I don't think is appropriate for the EBT Mike. I'l lwait to hear what yours sound like.


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## thumper (Jan 31, 2009)

This past weekend, at my Fifth Annual Steamup, [see Tom Myers' photos in the thread refering to my steamup] Bob Devries brought his brand new EBT #12 and a string of outside braced gondolas for a run. It ran smoothly right out of the box, and with about a dozen cars, it performed flawlessly no matter what the speed was. Not only was it a beauty, it ran so well! 

Regards, 

Will Lindley


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Will, thanks for another encouraging report. 

Pete, I have ordered a Chuffer directly from Chris, to save on shipping time. Normally, I get them from Zoe at NGT. Also, Del Tapporo has sent the graphics to make the engine Belden Falls 13. 

The reason I am trying to expedite things is, while the unlettered ones have not yet arrived, I hope to have the engine ready to take to the New Jersey Live Steamers 50th anniversary Meet the end of next month. Of the club's nine charter members, I am the only surviving one who is still a member and active in the hobby. Where did those 50 years go? 

Larry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope to have the engine ready to take to the New Jersey Live Steamers 50th anniversary Meet the end of next month. 
I used to live in Summit, NJ. Can I come and play if I'm not busy that weekend?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I shot some video on Wednesday... 



Later, 

K


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, of course you can--we have a very active G1 steam group. Please go to the NJLS website for registration info, required for this meet only. 

Larry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I shot some video on Wednesday... 
WooHoo ! Very neat shots. 

What was the crackling noise - it sounded like gravel bering crushed under the loco's wheels?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Another question, which popped back into my head when I was watching your loco steam past at wheel level. 

There's no internal stephenson's valve gear with external dummy outside gear on this engine - it has prototypical reversing rod and crank operating on the reverse link (but upside down, as has been mentioned.) So the valve gear is operational, and the valves are where they are supposed to be - in the valve chests over the cylinders. (Awesome and amazing that they did it like the prototype.) There's no mention of the valve type on the website - do we assume piston valves or D valves? 

While your engine steamed past slowly, I noted the reversing link seemed to be in 80%-ish cutoff? There's a visible gap at the top of the link: 











Mine travels to the end of the link when you move the Johnson Bar. 

Aha - I then checked the other side (firemans - opposite side from the reversing lever) and there is a gap above mine too. Is this as designed, or does it run better in reverse, I ask myself? 
P.S. Given that the outside valves work, it would seem a bit tough to reverse the valve actions to get the link down in forward gear?


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Reversing the valve action is done by rotating the return crank so that it trails the axle (as on the prototype) instead of leading it as it does on the model. That in itself is not difficult to do, simply loosen the screw that clamps the return crank on to the crank pin, rotate the return crank, and re-tighten the screw. Of course, you'll want to hook it up to an air compressor and experiment to get the right position so that the distance of the valve travel is the same as it was before. I've done that with mine (which in hindsight seems absolutely insane considering how well she ran right out of the box), and I think I've got the valve travel where it needs to be, but now the timing is off and the valves will need to be adjusted. I haven't figured out how to open up the valve chests yet in order to do that. Typically the valve chest cover is held on by a screw in each corner, but they're hidden under a smooth cosmetic valve chest cover, and I have no idea how it's attached.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

(erased!)


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, have you and your new engine hunkered down for the storm? 

Larry


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Scot,

Just watched the movie last week and all the dead locomotive crew was buried under the wood in the tender.

I thought it was interesting that about four guys died by falling off the same trestle at different times in the movies.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Talk about off-topic . . 
hunkered down for the storm? 
Yes. Watching the tide rising as I type: http://tidesonline.nos.noaa.gov/plotcomp.shtml?station_info=8575512+Annapolis,+MD 

Just watched the movie last week 
And what EBT #12 movie would that have been? 

_You can tell we've got nothing else to do except make feeble comments while we wait for this thing to pass._


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Pete, that crackling sound is the sound of steam oil sizzling as it comes out of the blast pipe and hits the very hot bits of metal in the smokebox. At least that way one knows that their lubricator is working! 

Regards, 

Ross Schlabach


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, what's off topic--- I asked about EBT 12. 

Larry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, what's off topic--- I asked about EBT 12. 
So me, the wife, the house, the cars, EBT #15, 12 hoppers, 4 coaches and heaven knows what else don't matter in this storm? Just #12 ???


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr Rivet kindly offered to let us clean his track so we could run our new locos on it, so Andy and I took them and had a blast. A very nice loco - I'll post more pics and video when I get a minute. Here's a photo you'll never see in real life:










_We did talk about re-numbering one of them, maybe #13 ?_


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I had my #12 running at Larry Goodhue's steamup this afternoon. It was the first run under steam since I reversed the valve gear. I had trouble getting her timed to run smoothly in both directions on air, so I basically sacrificed reverse for smooth forward running on the bench under air. Apparently though, she's a lot more forgiving when she's rolling on the rails under 60 lbs of steam as opposed to up on blocks on about 15 lbs of air, so although reverse was jerky, she was able to run in that direction. Forward, as expected, was silky smooth. I plan to experiment a bit more with the timing to try to smooth out the reverse without compromising too much of her forward performance. Also on the to-do list is changing the pivot point of the Johnson bar so that forward is forward again. Eventually it will be radio-controlled too. The cab is still off being repaired by Accucraft so she's still running as a convertible, but I really like the look of the corrected valve gear now. She'll look even better when the cab is back on her!




















For anyone else wanting to try reversing the valves or adjusting the timing, the cosmetic valve chest covers are held in place by the dummy lubricator fittings on top, which screw into place. They're held in with a bit of loctite, so apply heat before attempting to unscrew them.

Another project that made its debut at the steamup was the new headlight bracket I made for Lisa's Climax. She liked the wood-burning stack and wood load on the Mich-Cal #4 version, but she preferred the box-style headlight of the undecorated version over the can-style headlight on the #4. I arranged a swap with MLS member Bill Hendrick, who had the undecorated version and wanted the can-style headlight (thanks again Bill). Unfortunately, the taller box-style headlight wouldn't fit under the overhang of the stack on top of the original smokebox-top-mounted headlight bracket, and the projecting bracket of the undecorated version has the mounting screws in different places. I didn't like the idea of drilling new holes in the smokebox and attempting to fill the old ones and touch up the paint, so I decided to make a new projecting bracket that uses the existing screw holes. 











It was my first attempt at photoetching, using the Pro-Etch photoetching starter kit from Micro-Mark. Although the kit includes transparency film designed for inkjet printers, I don't have an inkjet printer, just an old Alps MD-1300 that I use for decal work, which uses paper/media designed for laser printers. The kit instructions say that using a laser printer and laser printer transparency film won't give the opacity and resolution needed to get acceptable results, but the wax-based Alps ink and 3M laser printer transparency film I used worked perfectly. I did a double-pass when I printed it just to be on the safe side. The new bracket will be painted eventually.


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## MFS (Aug 22, 2011)

A satisfied, even with the 4 year wait, owner of an Accucraft EBT #12. My EBT #12 had its first runs on track over the weekend at a pre-Narrow Gauge Convention steam up in Easley, SC. It had run about 2 hours on rollers and ran well, but there were still doubts and concerns (on my part) on how it would run on track with some cars behind it. The doubts and concerns were quickly put to rest. The engine is an excellent and smooth runner and pulled the 10 car train (8 Accucraft hoppers, a Bachmann hopper, and an Accucraft Combine) as if they weren't there. A number of videos were shot of the engine (and of the others at the steam up) by several folks and may be posted on YouTube sometime in the future. I made some videos with my inexpensive camera, but have not clue how to post them and are definitely no where near the quality of the videos I have seen in this forum 

As mentioned in a previous post, the locomotive suffered some damage before I got it. Accucraft sent the replacement parts in a couple of days. One of the steam up participants noticed that the left front of the cab was damaged. I had not noticed since the damage was slight, but makes some sense as the left front of the engine had the damage noticed right after the engine was unpacked and the cab door would not shut all the way. The cab was gently bent back into shape on my workbench this morning. No problem 

Best Regards to All, 
MFS


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

_So you thought it was a smooth, slow performer?_ 







_


And here's the Drag Race!!_


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

My dealer just left a message that my unlettered version was shipped to me on last Tuesday the 6th. So, it should arrive in a few days. Hopefully the cab roof packing issue has been resolved with this batch. 

Larry


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Larry and all, 
I also was notified that the Accucraft folks arrived back after Labor Day to find the container in their parking lot. I was also told the packaging was redesigned based on the problems with the first batch. Accucraft (Fred Devine) had a #12 on display at the Narrow Gauge convention in Hickory, NC from which I have just returned. I wanted to carry it over to place next to #14 on Rich Yoder's stand to check the size difference but I was afraid of getting a hernia. 8>) 
Best, 
Tom


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

to check the size difference 
Tom, 

(Good call on the hernia. Even dry it weighs a lot more than RYM's loco!) That probably caused the shipping damage. 

Mine is sitting next to my #15 and I'd post a photo except that I'm somewhere on the James River using my wife's laptop. I can tell you that the only obvious size difference is the tender, which is shorter by about 1". The loco doesn't look any larger than #15 but it is the same length.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Beautiful Pete. Those are handsome locos, and I love to see them run at Dr. Rivets, though I probably will never see them for real. I always appreciate videos from there. 

Are you coming to York next week? 

Paul


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## wowcow (Sep 12, 2011)

I enjoyed my first run of my EBT #12 this past weekend. The manual says, after the engine has cooled, the safety valve should be loosened to relieve pressure. 

The safety valve assembly has two knurled sections. The top only removes a vented cover. The lower portion with the actual lifter valve appears too low to be customarily removed, I would need to use needle nose plyers. I found other mistakes in the manual so I didn't want to risk twisting off something and loosened the filler cap instead. Should I really be removing the entire safety valve? 

Question 2. The lubricator is billed as 'adjustable'. The needle vale inside the cab seems awefully tight ... how do I know when it's properly set? 

Question 3. I've seen photos of this engine with coal cars and a combine. I found the EBT coal cars. Assumming that's an Accucraft combine, what model number is closest to the prototype?


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

You shouldn't need to loosen the safety valve. The engine has a blowdown valve (right side, below the cab), you can open that to release the steam pressure at the end of a run and leave it open to allow the air pressure inside and outside the boiler to equalize. Even if you don't use the blowdown, the pressure will equalize through the check valve for the tender pump (and if you happen to have a tender full of water, it's also a convenient way to fill your boiler for the next run). You can also open up the water filler cap, but ONLY AFTER the boiler cools and the pressure drops to zero. Why the manual would suggest loosening the safety valve makes absolutely no sense to me. 

I've noticed the stiff needle valve on the lubricator too. As long as there's water in the bottom of the lubricator (or less oil in there than you started with anyway) at the end of the run and the exhaust condensate that spatters on top of the engine during the run is slightly oily, I would assume the factory setting should be fine. 

I've been running my #12 with my AMS (Accucraft) Jackson Sharpe combine and coaches, and they look great behind her, but they're actually the same Rio Grande cars I run with my K-27. I'll have to wait until my wallet recovers from the locomotive purchase before I can even think about buying any proper EBT rolling stock to go behind her!


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I have never had to touch the safety valves on my engines.The boiler pressure is usually zero after running, because I stopped due to having no fuel left. If the burner was turned off because I wanted to quit, but pressure remains, I just let the engine run a bit to kill the pressure. 

Regarding question #2--Loosen the hex packing nut on the valve spindle, a turn or so, then the valve spindle should turn freely. I suggest a setting of 1 1/2 turns open. Snug the packing nut after setting. 

Two-bay EBT hoppers from Bachmann Spectrum and three-bay from AMS are pretty accurate, in my opinion. The AMS combine is more or less generic, but can be modified to represent those on the EBT. Mr EBT (Kevin Strong) or Pete Thornton might chime in with more specifics on the EBT combines. 

As I write this, I am waiting for the UPS truck to back down my driveway with my unlettered version. 

Larry


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

in a little while I will have a video of the EBT 12 running on Steve;s track this morning. Will be uploading to youtube soon. Gosh it is a big engine and runs great.
It belongs to Gino. He is one happy camper. It will be posted at Steamin at Steve's as soon as I can get it up loaded


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By gibs035 on 14 Sep 2011 05:18 PM 
in a little while I will have a video of the EBT 12 running on Steve;s track this morning. Will be uploading to youtube soon. Gosh it is a big engine and runs great.
It belongs to Gino. He is one happy camper. It will be posted at Steamin at Steve's as soon as I can get it up loaded


Well Art, I keep telling you to buy an Accucraft locomotive if you want something that you can run all the time and is easy to care for and operate. They are much better than those expensive Asters that don't run worth a hoot.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jfrank on 14 Sep 2011 05:47 PM 
Posted By gibs035 on 14 Sep 2011 05:18 PM 
in a little while I will have a video of the EBT 12 running on Steve;s track this morning. Will be uploading to youtube soon. Gosh it is a big engine and runs great.
It belongs to Gino. He is one happy camper. It will be posted at Steamin at Steve's as soon as I can get it up loaded


Well Art, I keep telling you to buy an Accucraft locomotive if you want something that you can run all the time and is easy to care for and operate. They are much better than those expensive Asters that don't run worth a hoot. 
Missed you at Steve's today. Had the S-2 running very slow. I had ttoo much oil on the drivers and had some slippage. You will see.


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Posted By jfrank on 14 Sep 2011 05:47 PM 
Posted By gibs035 on 14 Sep 2011 05:18 PM 
in a little while I will have a video of the EBT 12 running on Steve;s track this morning. Will be uploading to youtube soon. Gosh it is a big engine and runs great.
It belongs to Gino. He is one happy camper. It will be posted at Steamin at Steve's as soon as I can get it up loaded


Well Art, I keep telling you to buy an Accucraft locomotive if you want something that you can run all the time and is easy to care for and operate. They are much better than those expensive Asters that don't run worth a hoot. 
Sorry, but no such thing as a bad Aster. However there are bad Aster runners who when it comes down to it are really people who are in the wrong hobby......out of their depth and without the finesse needed to run a proper model steam engine..........nothing wrong with that, they're just in the wrong branch of our hobby. 

David M-K
Ottawa


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By GaugeOneLines on 14 Sep 2011 08:40 PM 
Posted By jfrank on 14 Sep 2011 05:47 PM 
Posted By gibs035 on 14 Sep 2011 05:18 PM 
in a little while I will have a video of the EBT 12 running on Steve;s track this morning. Will be uploading to youtube soon. Gosh it is a big engine and runs great.
It belongs to Gino. He is one happy camper. It will be posted at Steamin at Steve's as soon as I can get it up loaded


Well Art, I keep telling you to buy an Accucraft locomotive if you want something that you can run all the time and is easy to care for and operate. They are much better than those expensive Asters that don't run worth a hoot. 
Sorry, but no such thing as a bad Aster. However there are bad Aster runners who when it comes down to it are really people who are in the wrong hobby......out of their depth and without the finesse needed to run a proper model steam engine..........nothing wrong with that, they're just in the wrong branch of our hobby. 

David M-K
Ottawa
There are a lot of Aster Disasters they have made over the years. However, I am quite familiar with the pompous Aster Snobs that exist out there. Continue to live on your little cloud.


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Posted By jfrank on 14 Sep 2011 08:44 PM 
There are a lot of Aster Disasters they have made over the years. However, I am quite familiar with the pompous Aster Snobs that exist out there. Continue to live on your little cloud.


I am fascinated to know what these 'lot of Aster disasters' are John. Admittedly the 0-6-0 GER/ Est/ Ouest was a pretty horrid thing but all the others? I'd love to know which ones they were and what made them such disasters.

David M-K
Ottawa


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jfrank on 14 Sep 2011 08:44 PM 


However, I am quite familiar with the pompous Aster Snobs that exist out there. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------








*YOU RANG..............JOHN*


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By GaugeOneLines on 14 Sep 2011 09:42 PM 

I am fascinated to know what these 'lot of Aster disasters' are John. Admittedly the 0-6-0 GER/ Est/ Ouest was a pretty horrid thing but all the others? I'd love to know which ones they were and what made them such disasters.

David M-K
Ottawa


David,
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you.
I have one of the oscillating cylinder 0-6-0's, and it happily chugs around my track with a lovely plume of steam.
Mind you it can't do much else, but it is certainly not 'a horrid thing', and certainly not a disaster.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

David L 

In all fairness, you are a steam builder with above average skill and experience and we would expect anything in your stable to run like a Swiss watch. D M-K is referring to those of us who bought this loco as an entry level model when we had little experience and knowledge. Unless well tuned those single cylinder oscillators can hardly get out of their own way. Nearly everyone on the forum will acknowledge that you could make a silk purse out of a sow's ear if YOU put your mind to it. [LOL!!] 

John F 

As one who is thrown into the Aster SNOB puddle regularly, even though I have many Accucraft locos, I too wish to have you list those locomotives. It is unfair for you to spit out a general statement like that with no supporting examples or evidence unless you are a politician [any party affiliation] in Washington DC where it is an absolute requirement or one of my college Math professors who simply said "the proof of this theorem is left to the student". I eagerly await your cogent response.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

To get this back on track a bit (some day I must buy an Aster so I can play in that sandbox), my unlettered version arrived yesterday. No shipping damage; the cab is OK. Judging by the marks in the packing, the tender hopped around quite a bit in transit, but no apparent damage. 

Since it is raining today, I will give the engine a good check and service it. Tomorrow we will give it it's inaugural run here on my track. 

Larry


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Larry 

Congratulations. Hope yours runs as well as the two that visited my layout. So... does "old #12" get a new number, or does the "former EBT" loco get its own new one? Since Mike Moore will not have the steam track set up, is it coming down to the ECLST train show next weekend?


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 14 Sep 2011 11:06 PM 


Posted By jfrank on 14 Sep 2011 08:44 PM 


However, I am quite familiar with the pompous Aster Snobs that exist out there. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------








*YOU RANG..............JOHN*






LOL Steve. They all came out of the woodwork didn't they. Pull that chain. ding ding.









I would list all those 'Aster Disasters'







but there isn't room on here. But if you are at Diamonhead next January we can discuss it over a couple of drinks and some fried shrimp.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

John 

In other words, you will not publicly, and ON THE RECORD, own up to your [apparently] strongly held opinions.


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Although I do have a few Asters, I never considered myself an "_Aster Snob"_. I am, however, a snob in other areas: Beer (a good IPA), Ice Cream (Hagen Daas), Mayonnaise (Hellmann's Real), Live Steam in general, and Coal Fired in particular.

Probably the worst Aster ever made was the 0-6-0 GER, but what do you expect from a single cylinder, single acting oscillator? Mine does run reasonably well, as seen here...


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 15 Sep 2011 09:28 AM 
John 

In other words, you will not publicly, and ON THE RECORD, own up to your [apparently] strongly held opinions. 

LOL Jim. Well Aster has made probably over 80 different locomotives since 1975 and obviously some of them were junk and many are beautiful machines worthy of the name. I haven't seen them all, but I have seen a few that were junk. Of course in this hobby you can make anything better. You can take a Mamod and make it into a queen. It just depends on how much time and effort you want to put into it. But to sit there and always defend Aster as being perfect at the expense of all the other fine manufacturers in our little hobby is ludicrous. And no I am not going to make a list for you because you know which ones they are already as does everyone else.


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## Old Iron (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By wowcow on 14 Sep 2011 02:07 PM 
Question 3. I've seen photos of this engine with coal cars and a combine. I found the EBT coal cars. Assuming that's an Accucraft combine, what model number is closest to the prototype? Hoppers - Coal hoppers are available from Accucraft, Bachmann & Rich Yoder Models. The Bachmann 2 bay hoppers are examples of a prototype that was used in rock service, only 4 cars were built by the EBT. The Accucraft 3-bay hoppers are examples of the standard EBT 35 ton design that was used for hauling coal or rock. Rock cars were dedicated to hauling ganister rock and usually stenciled ROCK below the number. Detailing and construction of the Bachmann & Accucraft cars are similar and both are injection molded plastic. They look good together and I have stenciled all the Bachmann & Accucraft cars for ROCK and run them as a unit.
Rich Yoder imports beautifully detailed brass versions in the standard 3-bay 35 ton design and the high-side 40 ton version. I've dedicated my Yoder cars to coal service and run them in a separate train.

Combines - A surprisingly accurate version of combine 16, 17 or 18 can be built using an Accucraft coach and a combine kit from thegalline.com. To look correct it needs smaller wheels and lowering, straightening of the droopy roof ends, end windows with bars and open type steps.

Freight cars - I have built for myself and a small group of customers: steel box cars, the wood-on-steel boxcar #170, standard steel flats and the steel fishbelly flat #73.

Cabeese - I have recently completed a small run of caboose #26 and Rich Yoder has just announced limited production of EBT's iconic #27 & #28. I will be building these for RY Models... Rich should have something on his web site soon.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, "old" RH prairie #12 keeps her number. Her front plate is a tietac of the real #12's plate, purchased at the EBT gift shop for her. The unlettered version comes with a rather blah plain plate, missing the Baldwin info in the outer ring. Not sure yet what exactly I'm going to do, but Belden Falls #13 will eventually get a proper Baldwin plate. The tender and cab will get Del Tapporo's BF graphics applied this afternoon. 

The VGRS contingent discussed going to the fall ECLSTS and decided to wait until the spring. Some of us steamers (up to 5 now in the group) have been thinking about Diamondhead in January. 

Larry


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Larry 

I know there are pins for #14 and #15 if you were willing to skip #13.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

There's also #18, if you're good with a Dremel to remove the parts of the 8 that ain't a 3.  (Alas, not the same as subtracting 5.)

Glad yours arrived in one piece! Look forward to seeing it in its new clothes. 

Later, 

K


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Old Iron on 15 Sep 2011 10:44 AM 
Posted By wowcow on 14 Sep 2011 02:07 PM 
Question 3. I've seen photos of this engine with coal cars and a combine. I found the EBT coal cars. Assuming that's an Accucraft combine, what model number is closest to the prototype? Hoppers - Coal hoppers are available from Accucraft, Bachmann & Rich Yoder Models. The Bachmann 2 bay hoppers are examples of a prototype that was used in rock service, only 4 cars were built by the EBT. The Accucraft 3-bay hoppers are examples of the standard EBT 35 ton design that was used for hauling coal or rock. Rock cars were dedicated to hauling ganister rock and usually stenciled ROCK below the number. Detailing and construction of the Bachmann & Accucraft cars are similar and both are injection molded plastic. They look good together and I have stenciled all the Bachmann & Accucraft cars for ROCK and run them as a unit.
Rich Yoder imports beautifully detailed brass versions in the standard 3-bay 35 ton design and the high-side 40 ton version. I've dedicated my Yoder cars to coal service and run them in a separate train.

Combines - A surprisingly accurate version of combine 16, 17 or 18 can be built using an Accucraft coach and a combine kit from thegalline.com. To look correct it needs smaller wheels and lowering, straightening of the droopy roof ends, end windows with bars and open type steps.

Freight cars - I have built for myself and a small group of customers: steel box cars, the wood-on-steel boxcar #170, standard steel flats and the steel fishbelly flat #73.

Cabeese - I have recently completed a small run of caboose #26 and Rich Yoder has just announced limited production of EBT's iconic #27 & #28. I will be building these for RY Models... Rich should have something on his web site soon.




Thanks for all the info on EBT available cars. I have some of the Bachman hoppers I use for ballast service. They seem to be well built and durable. I leave them outside most of the time. I will be looking for Rich's cabeese.


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## Old Iron (Jan 2, 2008)

Trackside Details makes brass Baldwin number plates (blank number) & a sprew of brass raised numbers. http://www.tracksidedetails.com/parts51-100/page3.html


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

I also received my unlettered version this week, 
I was told the packing was redesigned to eliminate the cab problems of the first batch. The only flaw I can find is some paint missing from the top of the rear sand dome. 
The route I am taking with mine will be the period when both #7 (I built her from an Accucraft C-16 a number of years ago, too bad that it's around 10% too small) and #12 were on the railway, before steel hoppers were used. With the help of Tom Toth I was able to obtain a number of old Delton kits of the truss sided wood hoppers which I will modify ala Kevin's tutorial. I also have some of the Bachmann wooden ore cars which Kevin also improved. Along with the #73 fish belly flat and #26 caboose I got from Geoff it should make quite an impressive early EBT coal train. 
The problem is that out of the box it looks so great I hate to dirty it up. 
Have fun , 
Tom


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Has anyone tested their EBT #12 to see how small a radius curve it can traverse? 
My portable track which I take to train shows has 6' radius curves. When I set it up for my steamup in a couple of weeks I'll test the concept. 
Have fun, 
Tom


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Tom Bowdler on 16 Sep 2011 09:30 AM 
Has anyone tested their EBT #12 to see how small a radius curve it can traverse? 
My portable track which I take to train shows has 6' radius curves. When I set it up for my steamup in a couple of weeks I'll test the concept. 
Have fun, 
Tom 
Well Tom it ran just fine on my 6' radius curves.


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks John, 
That's good news. 
Tom


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## MFS (Aug 22, 2011)

Below is a link to a video of EBT #12 and a couple of other locomotives running at a steamup over labor day weekend in SC. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLwP2C3ODoY

My first effort in putting a video together. First run of #12 on track after a couple of hours running on rollers.

Best Regards to All,
MFS


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Geoff, do you know the correct dia. of #12s number plate? The blank one on the unlettered version scales to 16" and the TD ones 12". To my eye, the first appears too large and the TD one too small (Yeah, I know, the three bears and their porridge). My engine is now lettered and numbered as Belden Falls #13. While the EBT apparently had no #13, the Rahway Valley and the Rutland did; they were not superstitious. 

I wonder why the factory installed markers on the front? My pictures show flags and no markers on any EBT engines. They are coming off of #13. 

The first steaming this afternoon went well. Aside from some burner issues, it pulled 12 cars with ease, smoothly and in time in both directions. The cab roof does not seat properly with the hinge wire engaged, and the right front cab door is sprung. A bit of tweaking should fix them. 

My engine has what might be the prototype model SCAC17 Summerlands Chuffer in it, and I like the bark, easily heard from 75 feet away. Never did run the engine with the stock exhaust. 

Larry


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## Old Iron (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Larry Green on 16 Sep 2011 03:31 PM 
Geoff, do you know the correct dia. of #12s number plate? The blank one on the unlettered version scales to 16" and the TD ones 12". To my eye, the first appears too large and the TD one too small (Yeah, I know, the three bears and their porridge). My engine is now lettered and numbered as Belden Falls #13. While the EBT apparently had no #13, the Rahway Valley and the Rutland did; they were not superstitious. 




I will check the dia. of the plate tomorrow, if I can get in the roundhouse. Geoff


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## Chris B (Oct 18, 2009)

Posted By Larry Green on 16 Sep 2011 03:31 PM 

My engine has what might be the prototype model SCAC17 Summerlands Chuffer in it, and I like the bark, easily heard from 75 feet away. Never did run the engine with the stock exhaust. 

Larry 

Hi Larry - and congratulations on the first successful steaming! Your SCAC17 is indeed the prototype, but I will add it to the production list now I have your feedback. 75 ft will do me just fine!!
Many thanks

Chris


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## Old Iron (Jan 2, 2008)

Larry, 

The number plate on 12 is 14.25 D. 

The smoke box front is 60 inch D. and the headlight lens is 18 D. 

What are the dimensions of the smoke box & headlight on the model? 

Geoff


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Geoff, great service on my question! 

I used a TD Baldwin plate and numbers, JB Welding them to a #3 hex bolt, and painting the background red. It will do until something the right dia. comes along. 

The smokebox is 3" (2.995") ,which scales to 60.86", very good. The headlight lens is 0.705", scaling to 14.33"; almost a scale 4" to small, but it looks OK to me. 

One of the EBT books shows front markers on #12 as delivered, and apparently a rear light on the tender tank rear. I removed the markers and JB'ed hex bolts in to fill the holes. Neolube (from MicroMark) matches the factory graphite paint. Neolubed the injectors too; couldn't take the silver paint. Next up is to fit the cab roof properly and repair a sprung cab door. Both problems are in the right front of the cab, the same area damaged in transit on the first shipment. So far, it seems to be a great engine, with the typical Accucraft warts. 

Larry


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I steamed my Belden Falls #13 (former EBT #12) for the second time today. Using fuel in the tank left from the initial run last Friday, it ran for another 40 minutes.Add to that two cold starts without topping off the tank after getting pressure up, and 30 minutes running previously, for a total of 70 minutes. Pretty good, considering the engineer is still getting the feel of a brand new engine. Since the safety was popping off during all of the runs, I feel that run time can be improved with better gas valve setting. The first run was with 15 Bachmann Spectrum and AMS cars; today's run had 16. 

I think I'm satisfied. 

Larry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I barely have my gas valve cracked open, and I'm lifting the safeties. Makes me wonder if you could get away with only one jet. 

Later, 

K


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## HeliconSteamer (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, 
It sounds like your #12 might be an ideal candidate for some smaller gas jets. 

Paul


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

She is whole again...










I'm not sure if they repaired the existing cab or sent me a new one, but it looks as good as new. I had a good run on Sunday at the New Hampshire Garden Railway Society's show at the Shriners in Concord, NH.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Yeah! She is again a thing of beauty, Richard! 

Sombody best get the word down to Pennsylvania I think the shop crew is still kitbashing the full scale #12 to have the convertable look and the copper clad backhead!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Hey, if that means they're fixing the rest of her issues and getting her back in steam, I'll live with it!  

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

if they repaired the existing cab or sent me a new one 
Richard, 

Cliff said he'd ordered new cabs from the factory before he went on vacation. I didn't even send him mine - now what shall I do with a repaired Mikado cab?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Pete, I have a few ideas...  Let me know if you care to part with it. 

BTW, I had mine out at the museum today - one hour forty minutes on a tank of butane! Hand pump kept ample water in the boiler through the run; emptied the tender, but still had about half a boiler of water when the fire died. Lubricator was down about half. Probably should open that up a bit more, but there was notable oil in the exhaust dribbles as they fell on the loco. 

Oh, the ModelFlex paint is holding up VERY well to the heat. No chipping, peeling, or nothing! Gotta do the backhead yet. It stands out like a sore thumb from the rear. 

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Let me know if you care to part with it. 
Sorry - no can do. Cliff asked me to return it when I get my new one installed.


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