# LGB 50th Anniversary - LGB 28443 RhB Ge 4/4 II Locomotive



## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

LGB is celebrating 50 years during 2018 and produced the LGB 28443 by Marklin modeled after a real operating RhB Ge 4/4 II Electronic locomotive in the same markings. See the LGB Germany Website about the LGB 28443 model and the video of the RhB Swiss Railroad's project to paint the same paint scheme on one of their locomotives: https://www.lgb.com/lp/18/50years

Someone I know just bought an LGB 28443 which is equipped with a DC/DCC decoder and sound decoder but complaining the sound isn't designed to work in DC/Analog power. Marklin uses MFX decoder technology in it which is made by ESU (Elektronik Solutions Ulm - Germany). I researched the LGB 28443 and the pre-production literature stated the sound will operate in Analog power but the Owner's Instruction Manual states it will not. Several of the LGB/Marklin's similar RhB and other Europeon locomotives literature do state the sound will operate in both DCC and DC/Analog power. So, why have they designed the LGB 28443, a beautiful looking locomotive, for the sound to not operate in Analog mode.........to save costs? Does anyone know whether the decoder could be programmed to activate the sound for Analog operations........the LGB Owner's Manual doesn't address it?

UPDATE: To see a short video of an LGB 28443 operating on a DCC layout, go to my Website listed below. I received one of these locomotives that I bought from a model trains shop in Germany.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Tom,

Has your friend actually tried his locomotive on DC or just reading about it? It should definitely have operating sound in analog mode. While in one spot the manual says analog operating is set off by default, in other areas such as the table showing which function number is associated with each sound, it clearly states both lighting and operating sounds will work in analog mode. I’ve got the exact same loco but with the previous (tunnel) locomotive paint scheme so when I get home I will test it in analog/DC and see what happens...then let you know what I find. 

Keith


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

*LGB 28443 RhB Loco*



Cougar Rock Rail said:


> Hello Tom,
> 
> Has your friend actually tried his locomotive on DC or just reading about it? It should definitely have operating sound in analog mode. While in one spot the manual says analog operating is set off by default, in other areas such as the table showing which function number is associated with each sound, it clearly states both lighting and operating sounds will work in analog mode. I’ve got the exact same loco but with the previous (tunnel) locomotive paint scheme so when I get home I will test it in analog/DC and see what happens...then let you know what I find.
> 
> Keith


Thanks, Keith, appreciate your testing your own loco and letting me know. The literature for your LGB 28441 RhB Class Ge 4/4 II Electric Locomotive w/Lights and Sound does state the sound will operate in Analog mode. So, it's a mystery why the LGB 28443 model's owner's manual says sounds will not operate in Analog mode. And yes, my friend did test it in DC/Analog power since that's all he's using at the moment..........he plans to buy DCC/Digital setup in the future when his budget allows it. He asked if I could install a Massoth DC/DCC power/sound decoder into his LGB 28443 so he could operate it with sound on his current DC/Analog layout and I said certainly.
Tom


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I had one here for review. The sound worked well in analog, both on linear and PWM. Is the decoder programmed to run on analog DC? (Should be by default.) Speed control was not as smooth under PWM, but the sounds and lights worked as designed, along with the magnetic triggers for whistles. 

Later,

K


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

*LGB 28443 No Analog Sound*



East Broad Top said:


> I had one here for review. The sound worked well in analog, both on linear and PWM. Is the decoder programmed to run on analog DC? (Should be by default.) Speed control was not as smooth under PWM, but the sounds and lights worked as designed, along with the magnetic triggers for whistles.
> 
> Later,
> 
> K


Hi - The default delivery of this loco when purchased in no sound under DC/Analog power. I just asked someone who has done repairs on this and similar LGB locos and he found that the only way to get the locomotive's sound to operate in DC/Analog power is by programming it using the Marklin CS3 central station; and the other option is to install a Massoth XLS-M1 decoder into the loco's existing circuit board.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

You can use any DCC command station to turn on the sound (F8). Once it's turned on, it stays on and will operate under DC or DCC power with sound. Kinda weird that a sound-equipped loco has the sound turned off by default, especially with an external volume knob if you don't want to listen to it. Alas, I missed the fine print in the instructions, and since I always test DCC-equipped locos in DCC first (in case they're not programmed by default to run on analog DC), I instinctively turn on the sound. 

Later,

K


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

*Best Price - LGB 28443 Locomotive*



LGB333$$$$ said:


> LGB is celebrating 50 years during 2018 and produced the LGB 28443 by Marklin modeled after a real operating RhB Ge 4/4 II Electronic locomotive in the same markings. See the LGB Germany Website: https://www.lgb.com/lp/18/50years
> 
> Someone I know just bought an LGB 28443 which is equipped with a DC/DCC decoder and sound decoder but complaining the sound isn't designed to work in DC/Analog power. Marklin uses MFX decoder technology in it which is made by ESU (Elektronik Solutions Ulm - Germany). I researched the LGB 28443 and the pre-production literature stated the sound will operate in Analog power but the Owner's Instruction Manual states it will not. Several of the LGB/Marklin's similar RhB and other Europeon locomotives literature do state the sound will operate in both DCC and DC/Analog power. So, why have they designed the LGB 28443, a beautiful looking locomotive, for the sound to not operate in Analog mode.........to save costs? Does anyone know whether the decoder could be programmed to activate the sound for Analog operations........the LGB Owner's Manual doesn't address it?


It's pretty neat, the Swiss have painted one of their RhB locomotives to honor LGB's 50th Anniversary, so this week I decided to buy the LGB 28443. I surveyed 15 train shops for prices in USA and Europe and found lowest price at https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com in Detmold, Germany, for the export (no-VAT tax) price of 780 Euros (approx $912) plus 27.50 Euros shipping to USA. I use the Transferwise.com money transfer service for my overseas buys......this purchase was only $8.06 fee using ACH bank debit. Grand total all costs for the locomotive: $948. Lowest USA price I found $979 plus shipping at http://pizzatrains.com. LGB/Marklin produced this locomotive in January 2018 and probably won't be making any more production runs, so there's only the existing inventory at train shops USA and Europe, in case anyone thinking of buying one.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Is there a US import duty?? This can make a difference.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

*Import Duty*



Dan Pierce said:


> Is there a US import duty?? This can make a difference.


Dan - On this LGB locomotive purchase, no. There could be a German Export Tariff and a U.S. Import Tariff on toys, electric model trains and accessories, depending on the total cost of the goods in one shipment. The threshold in Germany, I recall, is 1500 Euro; in the USA I believe it's $2500. So the USA buyer's shipment of the cost of goods needs to be controlled on both ends to preclude any tariffs.


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

*LGB 28443 No Analog Sound*



East Broad Top said:


> I had one here for review. The sound worked well in analog, both on linear and PWM. Is the decoder programmed to run on analog DC? (Should be by default.) Speed control was not as smooth under PWM, but the sounds and lights worked as designed, along with the magnetic triggers for whistles.
> 
> Later,
> 
> K


I'm awaiting a reply from an email I sent last week to the LGB/Marklin USA representative about the LGB 28443's Mfx decoder's sound being programmed in the default "off" mode for DC/Analog operations. But in the meantime, I've done some further research on LGB.de on the Mfx decoder technology. It states that the Mfx decoder technology is designed to function within three modes, in the following priority sequence: Mfx using their Marklin CS2/3 Central Station; DCC/Digital Central Stations (like my Massoth DiMax); and DC/Analog. It also states that there could be some technical conflicts between these three operating modes. So, it appears that LGB/Marklin delivers these locomotives with the decoder programmed sound off for the Analog mode to prevent these decoder operating issues. 

So, pending the LGB/Marklin response, it appears that DC/Analog only users should get someone with DCC/Digital equipment to set their locomotive decoder's sound CV to "on" but then don't also use the locomotive with a Marklin Central Station, maybe even DCC/Digital.......if you want to do so, then get the Analog sound CV again set to off. Maybe operating difficulties or quality of sound issues could occur. If my assumptions are correct, it would have been nice if LGB/Marklin explained this in the LGB 28443's Owner's Manual instead of just stating the locomotive's sound doesn't work in DC/Analog mode. Alas, some challenges to us USA hobbyists from LGB/Marklin's using their Mfx decoder technology instead of the steadfast Massoth decoders used by pre-Marklin LGB.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tom,

I’m sorry I haven’t had a chance to test mine yet, but it sounds like you’re on the right track. I’ve also got the Dimax system and I’ve had no problems with my MFX decoders (in Allegra and tunnel locomotive). One thing you have to watch, though, is to make sure each sound is appropriately set as either latching or non-latching. Unfortunately this is more trial and error than anything since it isn’t made clear in the manual. For example, I found that on the Allegra, it wouldn’t release the locomotive to move until the conductor/door shutting sound finished. If you set that sound as latching, however, it would never release so it wouldn’t move! I also change the momentum settings and that really smoothes things out. 

Here are some CV's that I changed:

- CV 2 = 5 (much lower starting voltage)
- CV3 = 25 (slower accel)
- CV4 = 25 (slower decel)
- CV52 = 39 (this changes the BEMF motor type from some oddball HO setting to large scale)

Keith


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

*Programming CVs on LGB 28443*



Cougar Rock Rail said:


> Hi Tom,
> 
> I’m sorry I haven’t had a chance to test mine yet, but it sounds like you’re on the right track. I’ve also got the Dimax system and I’ve had no problems with my MFX decoders (in Allegra and tunnel locomotive). One thing you have to watch, though, is to make sure each sound is appropriately set as either latching or non-latching. Unfortunately this is more trial and error than anything since it isn’t made clear in the manual. For example, I found that on the Allegra, it wouldn’t release the locomotive to move until the conductor/door shutting sound finished. If you set that sound as latching, however, it would never release so it wouldn’t move! I also change the momentum settings and that really smoothes things out.
> 
> ...


Keith - Wow.......very interesting! I wonder if the LGB 28443's mfx decoder setup by LGB/Marklin might be different than your LGB loco. See the response I received from LGB on setting the sound feature "on" for DC/Analog power operation using a Massoth DCC system:

"The mfx decoder cannot be programed using a Massoth system. The loco can be run using your Massoth system, but it cannot do any programming. Included with this loco are two magnets that trigger sounds, I think it is a bell and a whistle. The export manager in Germany thinks you might be able to reprogram these triggered sounds with your Massoth system, but he is not 100% sure."

And a Massoth dealer near me previously told me that he had to use a Marklin CS3 to program the LGB 28443's decoder.

So I'm really confused! Can we all now conclude that the LGB/Marklin mfx decoder, at least the one used in the LGB 28443, is not NMRA-DCC compliant? I suggested to LGB/Marklin that they revert back to using the pre-Marklin Massoth circuit boards and decoders in their new LGB locos.........it was LGB's mainstay reliable electronics for many moons.
Tom


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tom,
I’m 99% sure the decoders are the same, but I will ask one of the guys on the Cadosch forum who has this locomotive and also runs The Dimax system. I’m sure he would have discovered this issue if it were true. When I was asking Maerklin for details about the Allegra decoder it became clear they themselves had no understanding of it. I’m sure they would have a mutiny on their hands if people couldn’t program them with anything other than CS3. I will let you know what I find out. 

Keith


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

*Video of LGB 28443 Operating*



LGB333$$$$ said:


> It's pretty neat, the Swiss have painted one of their RhB locomotives to honor LGB's 50th Anniversary, so this week I decided to buy the LGB 28443. I surveyed 15 train shops for prices in USA and Europe and found lowest price at https://www.modellbahnshop-lippe.com in Detmold, Germany, for the export (no-VAT tax) price of 780 Euros (approx $912) plus 27.50 Euros shipping to USA. I use the Transferwise.com money transfer service for my overseas buys......this purchase was only $8.06 fee using ACH bank debit. Grand total all costs for the locomotive: $948. Lowest USA price I found $979 plus shipping at http://pizzatrains.com. LGB/Marklin produced this locomotive in January 2018 and probably won't be making any more production runs, so there's only the existing inventory at train shops USA and Europe, in case anyone thinking of buying one.


Received my new LGB 28443 from the model trains shop in Germany in only 6 days.........pretty amazing shipping service for only 27.50 Euros to the USA East Coast. Operates great.......I was able to reset the address from 3 to 15 using my Massoth DCC system. Decided not to play around with any of the other CVs due to potential challenges with the mfx decoder. I made an iPhone video of it operating on my small indoor layout...........go to my Website to see it running.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Tom, I’m glad you were able to get your new engine going without any issues. I wouldn’t be afraid to program other CVs. Apparently others were able to program CVs with both Zimo and Massoth but I know that to program the long address to match the locomotive number I couldn’t do it in one step with my Navigator the way you can with a Massoth Decoder. You have to program the individual CVs and do the calculation as shown on the LGB website for CVs 17 and 18:
https://www.lgb.de/service/technische-informationen/dcc-rechner/

Have fun with your engine! BTW the shipping time seems incredible from Europe. It usually takes at least three weeks for me...


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

*Programming CVs LGB 28443*



Cougar Rock Rail said:


> Hi Tom, I’m glad you were able to get your new engine going without any issues. I wouldn’t be afraid to program other CVs. Apparently others were able to program CVs with both Zimo and Massoth but I know that to program the long address to match the locomotive number I couldn’t do it in one step with my Navigator the way you can with a Massoth Decoder. You have to program the individual CVs and do the calculation as shown on the LGB website for CVs 17 and 18:
> https://www.lgb.de/service/technische-informationen/dcc-rechner/
> 
> Have fun with your engine! BTW the shipping time seems incredible from Europe. It usually takes at least three weeks for me...


Keith - Thanks for the LGB Website referral for calculating the CV settings........very helpful. I have noticed with the existing sound settings, trying to activate certain sounds with my Navigator is a little inconsistent. When I first power up my Massoth Central Station, and if necessary, hit button #6 Sound Effect: Operating Sounds, the various sound controls seem to work, e.g., #3 Raise/Lower Pantograph, #4 Station Announcement, #14 Vacuum Pump, etc. But then if I then nit #7 Pantographs Direction-dependent, it seems to turn the ability to control the sounds off. A little confusing. What's #9 ABV, off refer to? Also, does your forward Pantograph work up and down with your Navigator........only the rear one works?

Tlhanks
Tom


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB333$$$$ said:


> Keith - Thanks for the LGB Website referral for calculating the CV settings........very helpful. I have noticed with the existing sound settings, trying to activate certain sounds with my Navigator is a little inconsistent. When I first power up my Massoth Central Station, and if necessary, hit button #6 Sound Effect: Operating Sounds, the various sound controls seem to work, e.g., #3 Raise/Lower Pantograph, #4 Station Announcement, #14 Vacuum Pump, etc. But then if I then nit #7 Pantographs Direction-dependent, it seems to turn the ability to control the sounds off. A little confusing. What's #9 ABV, off refer to? Also, does your forward Pantograph work up and down with your Navigator........only the rear one works?
> 
> Tlhanks
> Tom


Hi Tom,
I think you might be having some latching vs momentary setting issues. #9 ABV is the momentum on/off setting. If you don’t have a lot of momentum set, you might not see a lot of difference. #7 turns the automated pantograph on/off so they will go up and down at each end dependent on direction automatically. So if it’s on, when you change direction with the loco the pantos should alternate (front goes up, back goes down etc.). If #7 is off, you should be able to put the pantos up and down using F3. As you push F3, the cycle of both down, rear up, rear down, front up, front down will be carried out manually. I would start by setting all the sounds except #6 to momentary and see if that helps. 

Keith


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## LGB333$$$$ (Oct 11, 2017)

Keith - Okay, got it.........thanks!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If you reset a Marklin decoder, CV 50 get resets to Marklin, and you need to change it for analog/DCC operation per Marklin.


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