# DCC & Phoenix 2K2 Operation



## tmmhead (Feb 22, 2008)

Not sure if I should have posted here our under the sound forum but since it has to deal with sound that is being controlled via DCC I think this is the best place to post. 

I have an aristocraft Pacific with a Phoenix 2k2 in the tender that was previously being controled via the on board TE. Since discovering DCC I have installed a Digitrax DG383AR since it plugs directly into the aristo plug in the engine and would like to know which configuration is better to use:


1) Use the outputs from the DG383AR to trigger the sounds of the Phoenix 2K2 in which case I use up all the functions of the decoder limiting expandablity in the future

or

2) Use the Phoenix 2k2 DCC features and create a consist with the decoder in the engine and the one in the Phoenix 2k2. This would seem like the best of both worlds but I have noticed when doing this that you have to actually activate the feature, say horn, twice in order to get it to shut down or start up. I assigned the same cab number to both but I am wondering if that is were the problem is that I should make one with address for the cab and the other incremented by one and then build the consist. My only question is will I then have to then switch to the between the addresses to control the cab then switch to control the sound.


Just for information I am using with an NCE 10amp Wireless Powerhouse pro system.

Thanks for any help you can provide,

Tim

P.s - To add to all this I have been trying to use power off the tender which I have discovered would appear to be wired opposite of what is in the cab, so this has been causing some erratic behavior.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you do a consist, there are "rules" on which decoder in the consist reacts to function commands. This is probably the explanation of the erratic behavior. 

I would also wire up the tender to connect track pickups to the loco to enhance power pickup and reduce decoder resets, since, in the DCC world, the Digitrax decoder is not very sophisticated (nor is the Phoenix) in terms of "noise immunity". (Here will come the howls from the Phoenix camp). 

I would just put both units on the same address and make life easy. You need to add a small on off switch to each decoder so you can program them separately on DCC. This is a very simple no brainer way to do things. There are features like "decoder lock" to isolate 2 decoders on the same address, but I don't think the Phoenix supports this. 

So, a spst switch in one track lead of each decoder. Then you can program on the main easily, and also on the programming track if need be. 

Regards, Greg


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## tmmhead (Feb 22, 2008)

Greg,

Thanks for the suggestion. If I leave the sound board in the tender it would be just as easy to disconnect the plugs and take it of the track. Suprise, surprise it appears the wiring from the tender wheels up to the plugs on the engine were are miswired and don't seem to follow the corrections that are shown on the forum here. Break out the ohm meter and start tracing where the wires are running.

Tim


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you haven't checked my site, you might want to, there are sections on Aristo miswiring, but the meter is best. It's a bit confusing until you learn Chinese manufacturing logic! 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Greg:

Since when is "random" a logic - unless you believe they follow the rules of chaos theory (such as weather and stock market) but we have also learned so far there is no mathematical model, to-date, that can predict the bahavior (many attempts - all failed). So for all practical purposes it is "random".


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By tmmhead on 14 Aug 2010 09:13 PM 
Greg,

Thanks for the suggestion. If I leave the sound board in the tender it would be just as easy to disconnect the plugs and take it of the track. Suprise, surprise it appears the wiring from the tender wheels up to the plugs on the engine were are miswired and don't seem to follow the corrections that are shown on the forum here. Break out the ohm meter and start tracing where the wires are running.

Tim


Odd isn't it?
On the C-16 I found that the trucks seemed to all have been wired facing one direction (on the work bench) and then half are turned 180 degrees when installed...... Do not think in terms of color coding.

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

In concert with the last two posts: The "logic" is that the wiring is not either well designed or more likely documented at the factory, so stuff is wired up haphazardly, then the loco is tested on DC (only), if something is wrong, the most convenient wires are changed or swapped until it runs. 

Whether or not it results in correct wiring, proper operation with battery, not picking up from all wheels, or anything else, it's the absence of a short on a DC track, and some motion. 

One thing I learned that was very telling was that the products are assembled from a "master" example. If that example is miswired, then all production will follow suit. It's clear that all the communication "back" from the US does nothing if the "master unit" is wrong, because nothing goes on until your "production run" comes up, and then everything is in a hurry. 

The greatest example is that underframes being the wrong orientation in relation to the body (brake cylinder on wrong end)... took 10 years to get it right, and then a new production run of a different car was backwards. Why? Because the "concept" was either never communicated (or, more likely) translated into the "master unit". 

Really typical with the language barrier and the fact that the Kader factory produces for many different brands, so one manufacturer's problems are never uppermost in their minds, so to speak. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

If they had to I bet those folks probably don't even tie there shoes the same way.







Later RJD


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## simisal (Jan 5, 2008)

I did basically what you are talking about. I use the Prodigy Advance system but the same decoder in the USA NW2 engine. I replaced the lights with led's and I used the phoenix 2K2 with same address as the decoder. The book shows how to wire it up and it works fine. F1 will operate the bell and F2 the horn plus F4 will give you series of horn blasts for grade crossings.
Also I replaced the smoke unit in the engine. It will not work on DCC ( I burned it up). I did purchase a smoke unit from Aristo that is DCC friendly and you don't need the switch on the engine to turn it on. Its hard wired in and it has sensor in it that turns the smoker on when liquid is in it and shuts down automatically when empty. I hold my breath on that part but it has been working fine so far. Hope this helps you out.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just watch how the unit runs. The warning signs are excessive smoke output (shutdown circuit failure) or the fan spins REALLY fast... Then it is dying. 

There's not much you can do. Sometimes it can be repaired, if the capacitors have expanded and pulled themselves loose from the board. 

They actually work very well on DCC... 

Regards, Greg


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## tmmhead (Feb 22, 2008)

Thanks all for the suggestions. Just finished up putting the digitrax DCC plug in board into the Mallet. Much easier then doing the Pacific and not nearly the wiring problems. 

Greg, thanks for the re-wiring guide on your site. Used both and they worked well, especially the Mallet as two wire moves made life easy. 

Both phoenix systems are working well and I did go with the same address as the DCC boards. Now I just need to memorize which buttons operate which sounds and yes I set them both up to the exact configuration to simplify life. 

Tim


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