# What do I use to oil the gaskets between the cylinders and valve assembly?



## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

I am new to live steam and recently bought an Accucraft Ruby kit. I built it and it ran perfectly. I am very happy! I also bought, however, some 1/2" cylinder upgrades for the engine. In the instructions it says to make sure that the gaskets (between the cylinders and valve assembly) are oily (to help them seal) with lightweight machine oil like 3-in-1. I did this however I am wondering (now that I have the chance to redo it) if using steam oil is better? I thought this may be the case because steam oil is already running through the cylinders for lubrication and I thought it may be a better option.

Thanks,

Stephen


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Stephen: First off, welcome to the group. Your instinct is correct, steam oil is better. What are using for gasket material? Ordinary brown shopping bag paper works perfect.

Bob


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree... Steam Oil... and it won't hurt if you are sloppy with it (unlike any of the other gasket sealers that could interfere with valve operation if you are not careful where it get squished to).


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## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

Thanks for the welcome and response's all  

I am not sure exactly what material the gaskets are made from as they came in the kit, if it helps though this is the upgrade I bought (the gaskets are in the middle): 

http://www.accucraftestore.com/index.php?productID=833 

I think I will then go with steam oil. 

Thanks, 

Stephen


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## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

Also, how much should I put? should I soak the gasket in steam oil or just apply a few drops? 

Thanks, 

Stephen


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Over the years, I have found that a fairly new US one dollar bill makes the best gasket when coated lightly with steam oil. Its fibers hold it together. I've not had one fail. And they are easy to trim with a hobby knife, too.


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

My question is does your Ruby kit already have the larger cylinders already, the new Ruby's and the rest based on them are coming with the large cylinders.


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## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

Hi,

My Ruby kit does not have the 1/2" cylinders installed, I believe it uses 3/8" (I think I heard that somewhere) or smaller. I also believe it is a generation 1 Ruby so it does not have all the upgrades seen on newer models. Also, I thought they didn't make a gen 2 Ruby kit, do they?

Thanks, 

Stephen


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I know that Steam Oil is used in the cylinders so Steam oil should be the perfect oil to use. Also, with packing compound, when tightening down the assembly, one can see excess caulk squeeze out of the seams. If this is happening on the outside, it is happening on the inside as well, only now, it can't be wiped up like the outside can. Even with the very thinest of application, one would gather that a small amount is still going to beat up a bit and when dried and eventually worn off, could impede with the inside of the cylinder/steamchest workings. 
So, here is where my question lies. I can't see any harm come from using steam oil to create a nice seal on the gasket when assembling the cylinders. I can see potential problems if not really careful when using packing compound on the gaskets to the cylinders/steamchest. 
Is there any evidence why one should not use steam oil on the gaskets? 
Engine oil makes the perfect seal around the rubber gasket of a oil filter.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I suppose that if you have really lousy surfaces (rough, scratched, GOUGED) where the gasket is to seal, especially where the roughness has a depth greater than the thickness of the gasket, then some sort of thick goo sealant might be useful, but if that is what your surfaces look like I suspect that there are even worse problems in the rest of the machine such that too much sealant would be the least of your problems.

As for how much steam oil... well no need for scuba gear for the mechanic while working with it. Put "some" on the gasket and smear it around with your finger, assemble the parts and tighten down the bolts/nuts and wipe off the excess for appearance sake. No need to soak in oil, but all of the gasket should look uniformly "oily". If a couple of drops is not enough to get all of the gasket wet, then add a couple more. You will know you have used too much when you realize you should not have been working on the assembly wearing your "Sunday Best" suit pants.


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

Ha ha, 
Thanks.


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## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

I have also noticed some people use steam oil to lubricate the rods and other general moving parts of the train, and others use lightweight oil like 3-in-1. Which is better or more effective?


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Its best to use steam oil on the valve and piston rods where they ender the cylinders. The high temp of the cylinders steam oil holds and stays to keep lubricating while a thin 3/1 oil gets very runny and does not hold up to the heat. I have worn out 3 sets of gland Orings using 3/1 oil, I have been using steam oil on those parts since and have not replaced any Orings in over 3 years now.


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Jason on what he does. However, if you want to contiue to use 3 in 1 oil on the other moving parts, make sure it is the version in the blue can that is for electric motors because it has good high temperature adhesion characteristics.


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## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

I think I will then use steam oil to also lubricate the general moving parts of the engine as well. 

Thanks for your help, 

Stephen


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Stephen Yoannidis on 24 May 2011 08:52 PM 
I think I will then use steam oil to also lubricate the general moving parts of the engine as well. 

Thanks for your help, 

Stephen 

Just one more consideration to throw into the confusing mix...

Steam Oil is pretty thick and sticky. Using it on anything exposed to the elements can attract and hold onto grit which can accelerate wear on the moving parts.

A lighter oil can wash the dirt away (if you use enough of it and/or are sloppy [intentionaly or not] in applying it).

If your track is "down in the dirt" or your ballast is powdery and gritty then Steam Oil is probably bad to use. If your track is high and clean then Steam Oil is probably not that bad.

But do recognize that one chunk of granite will scar a bearing surface in just ONE revolution so "Accelerated" wear is actually more like "Instantaneous" wear. Lots of abrasive powder/grit is what causes "Accelerated" wear. if you wash it off often then that will help reduce the level of acceleration.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

One more thought...

You probably paid a pretty penny for your engine. Why skimp on the appropriate lubricants in the appropriate places?

On a real 1:1 Steam Locomotive they didn't have just one oil can for the job of "oiling around". Different oils were available for oiling different places on the engine.

Put "Steam Cylinder Oil" in the cylinder lubricator and use light engine oils for the moving parts.


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## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

Hi,


So in regards to the light engine oils, what would you suggest? 3-in-1?
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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally, I use a light machine oil I bought at a hardware store. It looks a lot like 3-in-1, but is a bit lighter and came in a 2-inch diameter round plastic bottle about 4 inches tall. The lettering on the bottle wore off years ago and I don't remember the brand or anything else printed on it. I think some would call it "Sewing Machine Oil". I have seen similar stuff at the hobby shop for oiling slot cars and gas/electric airplane parts.

It has a long flexible tube that slides in and out of the bottle, which when extended makes it very easy to put a drop on some of the more difficult places:

Like... reaching between the spokes of the drive wheels to get a drop on the horns that guide the main bearings on the drive axles so they can slide up and down easily, and put a drop on the bearing/axle interface... any place where to metal parts might touch while moving, including where suspension springs press again the bearing block and chassis and the eccentric for the axle pump and the shaft of the axle pump.

I think I counted 98 places on the Aster USRA Light Mikado 2-8-2, that need a drop of light machine oil, ... well... some share one drop between two or three close places... not that I get to ALL of them every time I "oil around" (bet I have missed more than a few ever since I assembled it!)


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## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

A member who commented in this forum said to use 3-in-1 in the blue can for electric motors. This is the closest I could find to the description and I am wondering if this is what he meant and if anyone has an opinion on it: 

http://www.3inone.com/products/motor-oil/


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## Stephen Yoannidis (May 20, 2011)

I have also found this product: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/BEST-full-synth...30437453903?pt=Model_RR_Trains#ht_2045wt_1139 

Has anyone used this?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The 3-in-1 product is a fine oil but I think the SAE 20 is a bit heavy. What I use is closer to SAE 10 or 5.

The 2nd product you listed says it is for 'Live Steam trains", and that bothers me in that it might suggest to some to use it as the Steam Cylinder oil and from what I read and deduce they do NOT sugggest that you do. It is for oiling all the moving parts, any place where metal meets metal in motion. At least THEY seem to think it is a fine oil and it may very well be, but I know nothing more about it that what they say themselves. Caveat Emptor it the worst I can say. Maybe the next time I need oil I might be persuaded to try it, but after several years the bottle I have is still 1/2 full (a drop goes a long way!) so it may be a while before I find a need to get more. I will say that it seems a bit expensive to me, but it has been a LONG time since I bought oil!


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

I've got two questions: my Accucraft mogul leaked at the valve chest. We checked and found that the factory-supplied gasket was made from thin plastic sheet. Would I have wanted to use some steam oil on that sort of gasket prior to reassembly, instead of changing out the gasket? Also, do you always have to remove the smokebox in order to tighten down those inboard valve chest screws? Just curious.

Thanks


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Tom Leaton on 12 Jun 2011 10:04 AM 
I've got two questions: my Accucraft mogul leaked at the valve chest. We checked and found that the factory-supplied gasket was made from thin plastic sheet. Would I have wanted to use some steam oil on that sort of gasket prior to reassembly, instead of changing out the gasket? Also, do you always have to remove the smokebox in order to tighten down those inboard valve chest screws? Just curious.

Thanks 



I doubt if it would hurt to use steam oil on the gasket, since steam oil is present in the steam chest with the steam there should be no problem with the oil on the plastic (no compatibility problems). As for whether it would do any good, I can't say for sure. A fiber gasket will swell slightly as it soaks up the oil and that helps it to seal imperfections (scratches, grooves, etc.) in the two mating surfaces. I assume the plastic was expected to cold-flow into the imperfections to produce a seal. Maybe it also swelled in the presence of oil. The oil would probably make it easier to dissassemble the parts by keeping the plastic from bonding hard to the surfaces, so that might be a good thing. 

Did you discover the cause of the leak? Was it associated with the gasket placement, was it folded or wrinkled, or was it torn? Were there imperfections that were too big for the plastic to seal or was it a matter of a warped part or were the parts not screwed/bolted together tightly enough?

Seems to me a thin plastic gasket would not seal imperfections as well as a thicker fiber gasket, but depending on clearances, a thicker gasket might introduce other problems with fit, like helping to keep a silde valve down on the valve seat. But since I don't know the Accucraft Mogul, I can't speculate much further than that, nor can I answer your other question.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks for your ideas. The overall design of the mogul is like that of a ruby, as the gasket material doesn't hold the valve in place, it just seals the two mating halves and also acts as the top part of a small horizontal steam channel, just like on a Ruby . For the first attempt, the original plastic gasket came off. It had marks showing the path of the steam leak. Then a brown paper bag gasket was made and added, w/o oil. It did not seal. Then I used a dollar, again without oil. This wasn't any better as steam leaked from the steam chest gasket all over. Because the Mogul's smokebox diameter is bigger than a Ruby's, i had to tilt the screwdriver in to get at all of the steam chest screws. (This may have affected how tightly I put it back on.) I am still interested in getting the engine back up and running again. Thanks again,
Tom


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Tom, The provided paper gasket on my Ruby leaked badly when I first assembled it. I did use oil (3 in 1) on the gasket before assembly. To remedy this I made a new gasket from a dollar bill, oiled it and made sure to screw the valve chest down as tight as I could. I would support the bottom of the cylinder so that you can really push on you screwdriver and not risk stressing any other part of the frame. Also, start with one corner in the front, then move to the opposite side on the rear, then the other front, then the last. Once having done that try tightening in the same pattern again and you may get another 1/4 twist out of some of them. That method helps tighten the whole chest evenly so you don't pinch one end and fight to get the gap on the other end closed. I did this with my ruby and it finally got the leak fixed. Good luck and keep us posted!


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I would only add, "tight as I could" is quite subjective. One person's idea of "tight" is much different from the next guys. I wouldn't want to snap a brass screw head off in the valve chest. If you have to tighten it that hard to prevent leaks, you might consider lapping the valve and cylinder faces first.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

My youngest son's favourite statement, (usually when he is working on a car) is; "Tight is tight, too tight is broke."


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I also second the notion to tighten the bolts in a staggered pattern. Just take them all down to touching on the first go round, then give them all half turns at a time in the pattern suggested above. Also watch for the parts not remaining parallel when the bolts are 1st brought to finger tight, as this might indicate something (debris, etc.) keeping the parts apart and leading to a leak.


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