# Wireless Video Cameras



## Dennis Cherry (Feb 16, 2008)

Could find the appropriate thread in electronics for this so i am putting my question here.

Looking for the best miniature wireless camera system you can put into an engine or car so you can get a live feed to a TV monitor.

It has to be reliable, good quality video and minimal breakup of the signal.

What are some suggested systems to look at?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

http://iptrains.com/Trainvision_c3.htm 

This should be what you are looking for...


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## jt2048 (Jan 14, 2009)

Oh and by the way, we've just finished putting it all on sale. Battery power guys, we're almost giving away the battery power kit! http://www.iptrains.com/Digital-Video-Ride-Along-Cab-for-Battery-Powered-Trains-DVRACLB.htm 

Need a new loco or RDC along with An Aristo Revolution to go along with the video (RTR) ? Then see http://www.iptrains.com/Factory-Direct-RTR_c10.htm 

It's our second anniversary sale and we've pulled out all the stops ;-) 

JT


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Jim Carter had one at Marty's last year. Took some great Video Check with him and see where he got it.


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

The IPTrains version does not display on a TV, but on a computer instead. It can be recorded from there. 

see http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips10/iptrains_camera_tips.html 

Costco has a version that is kind of expensive. I don't know how well it works. 

Aristo has a system too, no idea of how it works either. 

There may still be an X-10 system available. Cheap but doesn't work all that well from a moving train. 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips7/x10_video_tips.html


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

I still have a x-10 video system with motion sensor and some additional stuff(need to find out where and what)If someone is interrested sent me an e mail! 

Manfred Diel


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

The British web site had a thread on Key fob sized cameras. One of the members posted a film he took with it. It was very good. 
http://www.gscalecentral.co.uk/f/tm.aspx?m=64410&high=key+fob+camera


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Madman on 22 Sep 2010 07:47 PM 
The British web site had a thread on Key fob sized cameras. One of the members posted a film he took with it. It was very good. 
http://www.gscalecentral.co.uk/f/tm.aspx?m=64410&high=key+fob+camera 



These cameras are VERY VERY GOOD! Unfortunately they are not "real time"... they record what they view and after it is done, you transfer the video to a computer for viewing what happened. Another problem is that they have no "viewfinder" so you cannot be sure of exactly where they are aimed... it is just by-guess-and-by-golly. I have some of these and I have made several video of everything except what I really wanted to record... it might aim too high and record only the tops of the plants the train is charging through, or too low and only see the foot-board on the side of the engine, or too far to the right to see around the track when traveling anti-clockwise (and vice-versa).

See: http://chucklohr.com/808/ for lots of info about these things.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Do any of the onboard system variations/offerings provide video and sound? 

On the Iptrains system can any USB camera be used, such as MS LifeCam Cinema HD 720? 

We've been experimenting with equipment to Live-Stream video of late, the USB 2.0 MS LifeCam's seem to work very good as compared to others, and all have their limitations. Also purchased a real old school DV or Digital Video camcorder with Firewire support, this works very well. Went steps farther down the DV road and purchased a Sony high-end Professional DV Camcorder, this works best, but I need to get educated on using this DV camcorder to its potential, i.e., filters, lens, manual focusing and such ( I know squat about cameras and am a poor videographer) 

Correct me if I am wrong, when looking for cameras that stream sound/video live, I found the newest HD video cam offerings use memory sticks or hard disks, and have removed the ability to stream live? Some have HDMI and USB 2.0 outputs all are minus firewire connectivity. The USB’s bandwidth falls short I assume, what about the HDMI ports can I stream video/sound live to a laptop or PC? 

Regards, 
Michael


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## jt2048 (Jan 14, 2009)

Michael,

Our current generation of products are video only and are limited to Vimicro driven web cams. We offer cams in QVGA, VGA and SXVGA. Our next generation of product will be a bit more open, use a UVC compliant web cam and a Linux core and will support sound as well. It will also have smoother motion but will be QVGA and VGA only. The primary purpose of the next gen product is locomotive control over WiFi from a computer as opposed to conventional or DCC control from a throttle. The video is so you can see where you're going









Both the current product Trainvision and the next gen IPTX use 802.11b/g WiFi to communicate.


JT
IPTrains


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jt2048 on 22 Sep 2010 11:12 PM 
Michael,

Our current generation of products are video only and are limited to Vimicro driven web cams. We offer cams in QVGA, VGA and SXVGA. Our next generation of product will be a bit more open, use a UVC compliant web cam and a Linux core and will support sound as well. It will also have smoother motion but will be QVGA and VGA only. The primary purpose of the next gen product is locomotive control over WiFi from a computer as opposed to conventional or DCC control from a throttle. The video is so you can see where you're going









Both the current product Trainvision and the next gen IPTX use 802.11b/g WiFi to communicate.


JT
IPTrains 



Both of your links say: "Page not found". 

EDIT: If I hover the mouse over your link, right click and select "Copy Shortcut" and then paste that into the address bar of a new window/tab and then delete all the MLS garbage infront of the www . iptrains . com portion, the links then work.


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## jt2048 (Jan 14, 2009)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 23 Sep 2010 04:16 PM 
Posted By jt2048 on 22 Sep 2010 11:12 PM 
Michael,

Our current generation of products are video only and are limited to Vimicro driven web cams. We offer cams in QVGA, VGA and SXVGA. Our next generation of product will be a bit more open, use a UVC compliant web cam and a Linux core and will support sound as well. It will also have smoother motion but will be QVGA and VGA only. The primary purpose of the next gen product is locomotive control over WiFi from a computer as opposed to conventional or DCC control from a throttle. The video is so you can see where you're going









Both the current product Trainvision and the next gen IPTX use 802.11b/g WiFi to communicate.


JT
IPTrains 



Both of your links say: "Page not found". 

EDIT: If I hover the mouse over your link, right click and select "Copy Shortcut" and then paste that into the address bar of a new window/tab and then delete all the MLS garbage infront of the www . iptrains . com portion, the links then work.



Sorry about that! I used the link tool in the editor but clearly did something wrong. Trainvision is at http://www.iptrains.com/Trainvision-Kits_c3.htm and the IPTX info is at http://www.iptrains.org/mediawiki/i...Train_Express_Nothing_like_it_in_the_world.21 


Seems like the editor is trying to inject a link to this page in addition to the target link? 

JT


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jt2048 on 23 Sep 2010 04:29 PM 
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 23 Sep 2010 04:16 PM 
Posted By jt2048 on 22 Sep 2010 11:12 PM 
Michael,

Our current generation of products are video only and are limited to Vimicro driven web cams. We offer cams in QVGA, VGA and SXVGA. Our next generation of product will be a bit more open, use a UVC compliant web cam and a Linux core and will support sound as well. It will also have smoother motion but will be QVGA and VGA only. The primary purpose of the next gen product is locomotive control over WiFi from a computer as opposed to conventional or DCC control from a throttle. The video is so you can see where you're going









Both the current product Trainvision and the next gen IPTX use 802.11b/g WiFi to communicate.


JT
IPTrains 



Both of your links say: "Page not found". 

EDIT: If I hover the mouse over your link, right click and select "Copy Shortcut" and then paste that into the address bar of a new window/tab and then delete all the MLS garbage infront of the www . iptrains . com portion, the links then work.



Sorry about that! I used the link tool in the editor but clearly did something wrong. Trainvision is at http://www.iptrains.com/Trainvision-Kits_c3.htm and the IPTX info is at http://www.iptrains.org/mediawiki/i...Train_Express_Nothing_like_it_in_the_world.21 


Seems like the editor is trying to inject a link to this page in addition to the target link? 

JT 







Fascinating web site! Interesting products. 

I am somewhat interested in your cameras to use in my video surveillance system. Can they just be plugged into a computer via the USB ports? Do they use Microsoft's standard drivers or do you need to supply specialized ones?

I almost ordered your "FUT1" product, but when I reached for my credit card it BIT ME and ran off into the other room. I'll set some traps out to see if I can catch it, but I don't hold out much hope of getting it back soon, so you are still your own boss... keep up the good work. I am off to get a tetanus shot now (I have heard of folk being bitten by their credit cards, didn't know them things had teeth like that! Wheweee!).


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

JT, we've talked before, but would you mind contrasting the 2 different wireless ap's you have on your site? 

I guess one is capable of higher power... I run trains around 4 sides of my house, I have pretty good wireless coverage already, but of course going around corners gets dead spots... 

Thanks, Greg


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## jt2048 (Jan 14, 2009)

For Semper Vaporo
The cams can be plugged into a standard USB port but they do require a special driver from Vimicro. We have that driver for the CM-51 but I'd have to check on the IP-2061, not sure we do. They are really designed to work with the standalone web server, it has organic Vimicro drivers in firmware. 

JT


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## jt2048 (Jan 14, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 23 Sep 2010 08:50 PM 
JT, we've talked before, but would you mind contrasting the 2 different wireless ap's you have on your site? 

I guess one is capable of higher power... I run trains around 4 sides of my house, I have pretty good wireless coverage already, but of course going around corners gets dead spots... 

Thanks, Greg 


Greg,


The Nano2 is both higher powered and has a highly effective adaptive antenna (think phased array). There is an AP comparison here. The trick antenna is normally more important than the high power. The Nano2 can also handle an external antenna, the Loco2 can not. Covering all 4 sides of a house from ground level is very tough with one AP. Depending on construction of the house you *might *be able to get reasonable coverage with a single indoor AP running omnis but it would have to be a smallish house and made of wood. You can do the trick with 2 outside APs, ideally mounted on the corners, on the far side of the RR, looking back toward the house. The downside there is that 802.11 doesn't hand off between APs well at all (802.11r will fix this but is not yet ratified) and so you will lose the video during a handoff. Centrally managed APs (big bucks) deal with this much more smoothly as the OS see's all the APs at once and does the right thing during handoff. Depending on how close the RR is to the house, another approach would be to mount one decent AP with an omni on the roof, centrally and as high up as possible, that might do the trick. We'd need to survey to sort this out in detail.


BTW, for anyone who's interested, the sale ends 30 Sept and then prices go back to normal.

JT 

PS: I hate this freaking editor, had to go into HTML and hand edit to fix the link and the block quote. Is it just me or is this thing somewhat brain damaged? If it's me, what's the trick?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, messed up lately... maybe about a month.. 

Thanks JT, may avail myself of your system, George demonstrated it at my house, worked surprisingly well from an AP inside the house. 

Greg


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## RioShay (Feb 26, 2009)

....i like the "keychain" video cameras, available for one dollar on ebay, i have several and also use them for arial shots from my RC helicopter and glider, here's a sample of a still i yanked off the video (has sound too) i shot from my glider this week


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## RioShay (Feb 26, 2009)

this is my camera platform, (i didn't set the date on the previous foto)


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## RioShay (Feb 26, 2009)

....and i can get some pretty good video from here also. i think the keychain camera is easy to use


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

jt2048:

Thank you for your answer.

I have read most of your website and although I think I learned some I unfortunately have been left a bit befuddled (well, that ain't hard to do, but then, maybe "a bit" is an understatement!)... anyway I think I can wade through my befuddlement and ask a question you should be able to answer.

I have a Laptop PC that like most laptops today comes with an 802.11 wireless adapter, as well as a standard Ethernet wired adapter, built-in. I use it to access the internet via (either wireless or wired) a "Router" and then to a DSL modem. I also have a TrendNET video camera that is a website unto itself that can be communicate to the router either Ethernet cable or 802.11 wireless.

From playing with this setup I have discovered that I MUST go through the router to get the PC to communcate with the camera, wired or wirelessly. They won't talk to each other without the router acting as a go-between. I have read that there are special Ethernet cables and something that can be done to the PC to enable direct wired communication but I have never read just where to get the cable or what to do to the PC to get it to work.

I assume your camera and another device called a... uh..., oh dear now my brain has sprung a leak and I have forgotten what that little box you sell is called, (looks like it as a video screen for viewing the video of 1 or 2 cameras plugged into it, and a dongle that will give that little box wireless capability)... anyway those three devices, the camera, box and dongle constitute what the TrendNET camera is.

I assume it would also require a wireless router to get my PC and your "system" (of those 3 devices) to communcate. I assume that is what the Access Point (AP) that you sell is for (I assume it could be termed a "Router"?), but my question is whether your "3 devices" could use my router instead of your AP that is designed to go outside (mine is definitely an 'indoor' device!).

Does your AP plug directly into a PC wired network port? Or does it still require the "Router" device?

If I eliminate the dongle, I see the little box has a network port so it could be connected via a Ethernet cable, but what does the other end of that cable have to plug into? Can it connect directly to my PC or must it also go to a "Router" too.

As I think you can tell, I am confused on what all these devices REALLY are and how they are supposed to form a network and what parts do what function. Being basically a real cheapskate, I'd like to eliminate all the extraneous parts I can, or at least get away with the least expense in putting a camera on my PC whilst still haveing the utility of moving the camera around easily... and yes, I know that there is power to be supplied all around too, so I must take not forget that need.

Is it possible to power your "AP" off a USB port? (just to get power, not interface signals)... i.e.: If your 3 device system cannot talk directly to my PC via wireless, could I power the "AP" off of a USB port and wire it directly to the ethernet port of the PC?

Or would it be possible to connect the 'AP' (or something similar) to the USB port for everything? I'd just like to eliminate the wire from the camera to the PC and do so in the simplest and cheapest way possible.


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## jt2048 (Jan 14, 2009)

Replies in line as this is complex ;-) JT Posted By Semper Vaporo on 24 Sep 2010 12:22 AM 
jt2048:

Thank you for your answer.

I have read most of your website and although I think I learned some I unfortunately have been left a bit befuddled (well, that ain't hard to do, but then, maybe "a bit" is an understatement!)... anyway I think I can wade through my befuddlement and ask a question you should be able to answer.

I have a Laptop PC that like most laptops today comes with an 802.11 wireless adapter, as well as a standard Ethernet wired adapter, built-in. I use it to access the internet via (either wireless or wired) a "Router" and then to a DSL modem. I also have a TrendNET video camera that is a website unto itself that can be communicate to the router either Ethernet cable or 802.11 wireless.

From playing with this setup I have discovered that I MUST go through the router to get the PC to communcate with the camera, wired or wirelessly. They won't talk to each other without the router acting as a go-between. I have read that there are special Ethernet cables and something that can be done to the PC to enable direct wired communication but I have never read just where to get the cable or what to do to the PC to get it to work.
Wirelessly is a problem since both devices are most likely operating in 'infrastructure' mode. If you can figure out how to put them in 'ad hoc' mode they should talk. The PC can do this, the TrendNET may well not, check your docs. Our server will not, it wants to talk 'infrastructure' only. Devices in infrastructure mode talk to a central point (an Access Point [AP]) and devices in Ad Hoc can talk directly to each other without the need for an AP. Ad Hoc mode is not common and many devices do not support it. 

Wired, well it depends on how both devices get their IP address. I'm betting that your wireless router is running a DHCP server and handing out addresses, this would be quite common and corresponds to the issues you are having connecting on a direct Ethernet connection. Assigning static IPs to both the PC and the TrendNET should allow them to talk on a direct wired connection. Come to think of it, you'd need to do this for an ad hoc wireless connection as well. I assume your camera and another device called a... uh..., oh dear now my brain has sprung a leak and I have forgotten what that little box you sell is called, (looks like it as a video screen for viewing the video of 1 or 2 cameras plugged into it, and a dongle that will give that little box wireless capability)... anyway those three devices, the camera, box and dongle constitute what the TrendNET camera is. Correct I assume it would also require a wireless router to get my PC and your "system" (of those 3 devices) to communcate. I assume that is what the Access Point (AP) that you sell is for (I assume it could be termed a "Router"?), but my question is whether your "3 devices" could use my router instead of your AP that is designed to go outside (mine is definitely an 'indoor' device!). A wireless router (all in one box) normally does 3 or 4 things for you. 1. It serves as a wireless AP 2. It serves as a hub or switch allowing you to connect multiple Ethernet segments and devices 3. It serves as a NAT and DHCP server to make connecting PCs and other network devices simple 4. It serves as a router (which is a distinct function from an AP). Routers connect IP networks with different subnet addresses and 'route' traffic between them. For example, your in house network and your ISP. To talk to our units over wireless your unit would work as long as you have sufficient range to 'see' the railroad. Our outdoor APs are carrier grade units for people who need to cover fairly large areas outdoors. So it all depends on the RF coverage area and how much multipath there is (tunnels, hills, trees, etc.). Does your AP plug directly into a PC wired network port? Or does it still require the "Router" device?If I eliminate the dongle, I see the little box has a network port so it could be connected via a Ethernet cable, but what does the other end of that cable have to plug into? Can it connect directly to my PC or must it also go to a "Router" too. The AP plugs into a network port on a switch or hub, like the ones on your wireless router. Ditto the wired port on the video server, it acts like a PC and looks like one to the network. As I think you can tell, I am confused on what all these devices REALLY are and how they are supposed to form a network and what parts do what function. Being basically a real cheapskate, I'd like to eliminate all the extraneous parts I can, or at least get away with the least expense in putting a camera on my PC whilst still haveing the utility of moving the camera around easily... and yes, I know that there is power to be supplied all around too, so I must take not forget that need.Is it possible to power your "AP" off a USB port? (just to get power, not interface signals)... i.e.: If your 3 device system cannot talk directly to my PC via wireless, could I power the "AP" off of a USB port and wire it directly to the ethernet port of the PC?Or would it be possible to connect the 'AP' (or something similar) to the USB port for everything? I'd just like to eliminate the wire from the camera to the PC and do so in the simplest and cheapest way possible. Sorry, no, the AP uses a higher voltage than USB can provide and it gets it's power via POE (Power Over Ethernet). It includes the POE injector and power supply, you mount both of those indoors and just run Ethernet cable to the AP outside. It is possible to connect the POE injector ether side to the PC and talk directly to it but there is quite a bit of network knowledge required, static IPs and the like and there really isn't a lot to be gained, it's really designed for a fixed installation. Hopefully I've covered it all but I'll bet I also raised a few more questions in the process ;-) If so, feel free to hit [email protected] and we'll do our best to sort it all out. 

Best ... JT


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

JT, just in the shopping page now... not trying to find alternative, but whose wi-fi dongle do you use, and is it 802.11G? 

On the camera selection, I get the higher resolution camera sends more data... the color is better, etc. The question is that given some very good signal strength, is unbroken video without a lot of macro blocks a reasonable possibility? Or should I get the lower resolution camera? I won't have any access point more than 30 feet from the server. 

Thanks, Greg


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## jt2048 (Jan 14, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 24 Sep 2010 12:13 PM 
JT, just in the shopping page now... not trying to find alternative, but whose wi-fi dongle do you use, and is it 802.11G? 

On the camera selection, I get the higher resolution camera sends more data... the color is better, etc. The question is that given some very good signal strength, is unbroken video without a lot of macro blocks a reasonable possibility? Or should I get the lower resolution camera? I won't have any access point more than 30 feet from the server. 

Thanks, Greg Greg,

We use a 'white box' dongle from China (a TP-link normally). It is 802.11b/g. The only compatibility issue is with the video server, it needs to be on the supported list which is here

As to video and which camera? Hey, it's a highly subjective question. I like the IP-2061 because the video is 'smoother' (fewer frame repeats). I suspect that George would tell you the the CM-51 is more to his liking. Go read his reviews and our camera selection page and then decide. It's also not a high impact decision, the server supports 2 cams (requires a simple usb 1.1 hub) and running one of each is not a bad idea nor overly expensive. And it's really nice to have a backup camera... (back up as in looking backwards, not redundancy). 


I also suspect that you'll run most of the time in low res mode except for taking photos (I do) and the IP-2061 is *much* faster in that mode. Also, data rate isn't a very big deal, the cams require between 780Kb and 3.5 Mb depending on mode. A much bigger limiting factor is the speed of the PCs video engine. Gamer or near gamer cards are good. In a nutshell, if you can talk to the unit, data rate will be adequate 90% of the time. Down to about -70 or so...


JT

BTW: We have no beef with anyone substituting any component we sell, the idea is to furnish as open a system as possible. Just keep a close eye on the compatibility list because you're dealing with an embedded computer that doesn't update USB drivers very often and one that is *very* fussy about the camera driver. The IPTX will be more open when we finally release it, I hope to publish an API...


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

MFJ makes a video transmitter, MFJ-8704, that runs on 433.97, it puts out 50 - 100mw. I don't know if it actually requires a Ham license to use it at that power level, it seems to be on or near the frequency that all the wireless devices seem to use. It appears to use a 9V battery. I am sure there are others, more focused toward Ham hobbyists, that sell similar products. 

Plug in any NTSC compatible video camera. It outputs on cable channel 59. 

Link: http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-8704 

The writeup says that it requires a ham license, also it is 50khz above the 433.92 unlicensed frequency. 


Tom


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