# My New Piko Camelback Loco, Look!



## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Well I just got my Piko Camelback loco and look what it does. 






Yup, the same thing my mogul does.

I give up.

Steve


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

What is your power source?? That is in common with all your piko engines.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Piko Engines Trouble? *UPDATE* 11/29/17!!*



Dan Pierce said:


> What is your power source?? That is in common with all your piko engines.


It's Piko's Digital System. The thing is.. it's the Soundtraxx decoder. I had sent both my other piko engines in for repairs. The saddletank went in for another reason. But the Mogul went in for sound problems / interferance issue. Piko is aware of the problem, they were going to swap out a new engine for the Mogul, but they tested it before they sent it, and it did the same problem with the sound. Let me see if I can copy some of there emails.

Piko's Response:

"Our repair department received your locos and got them unpacked. I
personally went down to the repair room and checked out the PRR Mogul. It
is indeed making the sounds as you described. So I was going to give the
instruction to send you a replacement loco, but I thought I should test that
one myself before it went out, just to be sure it was perfect in every way.
Much to my surprise, it had the same issue.

So I have already had a couple conversations today with the tech people at
SoundTraxx. I forwarded them the links to your videos. Their thoughts were
similar to mine - that something on this particular model is causing
electrical interference. That's very puzzling, because other than being
built in a different production run and having Pennsy paint on the outside,
these locos are electrically the same as thousands of other PIKO Moguls.
It's also odd that we haven't had reports of this before, but I really do
think some people might overlook it, or if they noticed it, just not think
to mention it to us. Still, no argument, it's happening here on two locos."

Here is the FIX they did for the Mogul again copied email from Piko..

"Both locos are on the way back to you.

Both have received complete gearboxes of a newer type than they had, so they
now have gear ratios that should match up fairly well to your Camelback.

The 38213 also received a complete replacement tender chassis with all the
electronics. This is actually one made later, for a Camelback loco, so we
are certain it is not from the same production run as the original one in
your loco.

As mentioned previously, the sound decoders in these locos are basically all
the same design. We spent a lot of time with SoundTraxx developing the
design so that it works well, and because of that we've never felt a need to
change it. The only thing that varies from one production run of locos to
the next is the selection of whistle tones (so all our locos don't sound the
same) and the coal shoveling sound, which is factory-set to "off" for locos
that do not model coal-burners. Otherwise, the board design is the same.

After quite a bit of back and forth with SoundTraxx, my best guess is that,
on the last run of sound decoders for the 38213 PRR Moguls, there was
perhaps a component on the circuit board that was within the normal specs,
but right out at the limits. There is usually some tolerance in electronic
components, and SoundTraxx constantly has to find different suppliers for
the many individual components that go into a circuit board. Even with the
same part number from the same supplier, one batch can be different than
another."

And then I get my Piko camelback yesterday and to my disappointment, it's doing the same thing... I have an email into Piko again, but haven't heard from them yet..

Steve


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

They should have stuck with the Massoth decoders they originally used instead of the cheap Soundtraxx decoders by the sounds of it (no pun intended). My guess is that the Piko digital system (made by Massoth) which puts out a true 24V or about 22.5V to the tracks is too much for the decoder. I bet if you tried it on a different DCC system it wouldn't do it. Sorry to hear you're having these issues...


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve;

I have never run my camelback on DCC - straight DC only. Perhaps that is why I never got that sound. I have the 3amp Zephyr system, purchased for my HO Crusader, but have never tried it with large scale. Also, my locomotive was purchased before that model even hit our shores (discount for early reservation). Perhaps it has a different DCC & sound system.

I regret that you have had so much trouble. Hope all will be resolved.

Regards,
David Meashey


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Thanks guys..

I'm just not sure really what to do. I have another email into them but haven't heard anything yet. Just gets me mad, 3 out 3 not working. Hopefully they'll be able to do something. Maybe even put in a new sound decoder.


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

I think it's odd that they haven't seen this before. Their locos, their "factory" sound system, and their digital controller--that doesn't sound like an unusual combination. Since it makes the same sound on their testing setup, it obviously isn't just confined to your DCC system and this locomotive.

I hope you can get it straightened out. I'm sure it's disappointing that they apparently didn't re-test these post-fix before sending them back to you. And I know this hasn't been a happy intro to G scale for you.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

This is why I do straight DC no sound.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*I Heard From Piko*

Okay,

So finally I heard from Piko.. and I'm sorry to say. but to me. This is totally unacceptable, wath do you think? The below is their unedited replay..

"Hi Steve:

I received your emails.

It sounds like your Camelback took a hard hit in shipment. In the past couple years, we've seen maybe one or two locos with that kind of breakage. The repair department lets me know when they see something unusual, and this would definitely be in that category. Replacing the complete lower boiler/running boards/steps part is quite a bit of work - not something I would recommend trying.

I've never kept statistics, but it does seem to me, over the years dealing with customer damage complaints, that one little area in PA has an unusually high amount of damage. We see this in a few spots around the country. My theory is a local terminal where they just don't care much about how things get handled. We also have one UPS terminal in Southern California where damage seems to happen far more frequently. Despite all the automation at UPS, FedEx and the Post Office, there's still a lot of manual handling and I've even seen people throwing things and letting them drop five or six feet or more. Anyway, the Camelback should come back here.

I'd like you to wait and tell me what difference you hear with the Mogul and 0-6-0T when you get them back. As soon as I powered up the smoke on the Mogul, I could tell the normal ramp-up hum was drastically quieter. I gave it a workout and my ears did not hear any other humming. Maybe you will hear something, but I think you will notice a big difference.



We have sent a PRR Mogul to SoundTraxx for them to test. We know this loco was clearly making the humming sound. We will see what they figure out."

I think I'm holding off on buying anything Piko for a while.

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Dcc*



Cougar Rock Rail said:


> They should have stuck with the Massoth decoders they originally used instead of the cheap Soundtraxx decoders by the sounds of it (no pun intended). My guess is that the Piko digital system (made by Massoth) which puts out a true 24V or about 22.5V to the tracks is too much for the decoder. I bet if you tried it on a different DCC system it wouldn't do it. Sorry to hear you're having these issues...


I wish, I had another DCC system, I do have and MRC, but it's geared to N and HO scale.. Yeah, I'm getting a little sick of this. Piko is the only thing I can afford right now, and I stuck out with them. 1st engine gear problems, 2 engine DCC/sound problems, 3 engine DCC/Sound problems. That's pretty bad imo.

Thanks

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Hi*



riderdan said:


> I think it's odd that they haven't seen this before. Their locos, their "factory" sound system, and their digital controller--that doesn't sound like an unusual combination. Since it makes the same sound on their testing setup, it obviously isn't just confined to your DCC system and this locomotive.
> 
> I hope you can get it straightened out. I'm sure it's disappointing that they apparently didn't re-test these post-fix before sending them back to you. And I know this hasn't been a happy intro to G scale for you.


Hi.. He did test the mogul and he said I should hear nothing more then the start up humming from the smoke unit from being turned on.. I shouldn't hear anything else. But if they replaced the tender from one of the camelbacks.. I have to question it, since.. the camelback I just got is doing the same thing. I posted his response above this post. Can't say I'm happy.. but we'll see where this goes. He did send a Mogul to soundtraxx to hopefully figure out..

Peace!

Steve


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Well at least they are seeing most of the problems also on their bench testing vs just saying something along the lines of " too bad-so sad ". 

Are they refunding shipping costs for the returns, at least beyond first time ? 

You're in a 'good place', that Piko is 'talking' to you vs through a vendor whose only real relationship with the manufacturer might be, as a dealer for them. When it comes to parts and solutions to defects, the vendor may not be able to acquire anything out of the manufacturer. Granted some vendors were/are only interested in sales with no 'customer service'. 


Good Luck with this 

Doug C.



p.s. read only if you have time 
Last June I had new (mnib factory-fresh) lgb-marklin 21670 (cleaner) loco 'break' in half on me first time out of box when placing on track. The pedestal joining the two parts had shattered sometime/somewhere. Our regional vendor (I purchased had from) stated he would take care of; also at same time used the L-M online contact form asking if known problem; 3 wks later still never heard from either; and reached out to the vendor again who again said he would contact/remind supplier for part(s), i had sent them pictures of parts along with p/ns; not hearing from L-M I reached out to them using their email addy option. .. within 30hrs a CSR responded to my query about parts availability and $, not wanting anymore delay I offered to purchase 2 packages plus shpg, ....within a week they agreed to ship me 2 packages of the part (shpg incld) as a 'gratis' warranty replacement from their German warehouse Oh, it took twice as long to leave the warehouse than it did to travel, across the Atlantic to our western Canada mailbox  3 months later (not hearing anything from our regional vendor and thinking negative thoughts of him) bumped into the vendor at CentralCanada trainshow and during a slow time at their booth shared with him how he seemingly let me down with broken 'promises' to fix the situation. He shared with me that the relationship btwn L-M and their middlemen/vendors seems to be broken now under this new management. But he was both pleased and surprised that my direct contact (using email addy option) had solicited such fast and corrective results Oh btw, our regional vendor has had a terrific rating when it comes to customer service ... maybe communication could be improved though. 

All that said, my situation only involved a defective part replacable by end user, not a electronics issue which will usually require end user paying shpg costs at least one way(x?). Although if the manufacturer acknowledges a probable defect across the entire production run, I would say they should pay both ways even if it means cutting a cheque after seeing a invoice/receipt. imho.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*I read..*



Doug C said:


> Well at least they are seeing most of the problems also on their bench testing vs just saying something along the lines of " too bad-so sad ".
> 
> Are they refunding shipping costs for the returns, at least beyond first time ?
> 
> ...


Hi Doug! 

Yes, I read all your message. FIrst.. I bought the Mogul from Trainworld, I did contact them, but they wouldn't do anything about it. After about another week, I placed a 870.00 order, which they cancelled with no reason given. I called them, and the person I spoke to, said he would call me back with an answer to why.. they never did, but while I had him on the phone. I told him to pull up another order, and add that to the one they cancelled. I then told him to make sure both were cancelled and I would take my business elsewhere, and so I did. 

Now.. as far as Piko.. How can I say this.. Yes, they are supporting me 100%, the emails don't come often, even when I ask a question, but they do eventually respond. Right now they have paid for 2 engines to be shipped back to them, and paid to have them shipped back to me. Jonathan (Piko) did make a comment that the camelback would have to go back as well, but wanted me to wait for the repaired engines to come back so that I could test the Mogul out and to make sure I was happy with the sound being not as loud.. Don't know what me means by that yet. So I would hope they would pay for the camelback as well, and I'm sure they will.

I think my biggest problem lies in them not testing out or quality control, this is something they would of noticed if they had tested them out. I mean he pulled one from his shelf, and had the same problem. Now he did tell me that they sent a Mogul to Soundtraxx to try and figure out what's going on.. but to me, it's not limited to just the Mogul since I'm having problems with a brand new Cameback.

Anyways... I haven't gotten the repaired loco's back yet.. probably next Tuesday or Wednesday, once I get them.. I will update this thread with my findings.

Thanks for your thoughts!!

Steve


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, Some observations from a veteran.

You were wise to send the original moguls back and not try to fix it yourself. Good job documenting the issue. I would suggest, make another video the first time out of the box when they come back to you. 

Trainworld.....Blowout. Exactly what they do with customer service. Sometimes you get lucky and things go smoothly, sometimes...now you see. At least you got an answer saying it was cancelled. It's been an issue for decades. 

Piko. I've never had any dealings with them. But reading your problem and their email reply, I'd say that they have done a very nice job of responding to your issues. I hear your pain on QC but that has been an issue industry wide for decades. 

I know you are frustrated and just want to open the box after spending a pocket and a half of $$$$ and have the blasted thing work right the first time. If that happened 99% of the time, there might be a whole lot more Garden Railroaders today. Hang in there. Work with them. 

Tom


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Tom Parkins said:


> Steve, Some observations from a veteran.
> 
> You were wise to send the original moguls back and not try to fix it yourself. Good job documenting the issue. I would suggest, make another video the first time out of the box when they come back to you.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply Tom..

Yeah I did a hugh order when they did the 10% off for Thanksgiving, guess they didn't like it. haha. 

I'm trying to hang in there, but I miss my trains.. even if is just an oval right now. lol. i just dread the idea of them being returned, I have a feeling the Mogul is going to sound completely different, in other words, different whistle and bell, and I liked the original, can't say I like the camelbacks too much.

I'm trying not to be a pain in Piko's side, but I have a feeling it's too late for that. I've been nice in my emails, cuz I don't want to ruin a good thing.. and they are trying to help. To tell the truth I was shocked when they originally wrote me about the sound problem. I just hope they can figure it out and offer a fix, I don't know how though, because it's apparent that no one else is complaining about the issue. But they have a faulty product on the shelves (imo) and I feel for those that are doing the DCC thing, because they are in for a shock when they start it up.

Oh, yeah. I plan on doing another video of both. Although I don't understand what all he did to the 0-6-0T, swapped out the wheel set to make it more like the camelbacks. I hope that's a good thing, and I never had any problems with that engine making the strange sound. 

Steve


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Steve, I would try your MRC DCC unit and see if funny sounds go away. I think Cougar is onto something with the Soundtrax decoder not being robust for G scale.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

adelmo said:


> Hey Steve, I would try your MRC DCC unit and see if funny sounds go away. I think Cougar is onto something with the Soundtrax decoder not being robust for G scale.


I'd like to try it.. but don't think it's enough.. It's geared for HO and N scale. Even though I have been thinking of trying it. lol

Steve


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## Tom Parkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Somewhat related: You might consider buying some things on the used market. That sounds strange. BUT, The Facebook G Scale Swap and Shop is a closed group. When somebody sells and says in excellent condition you can have a fair degree of confidence. The guys are all pretty truthful. A few bad eggs have slipped in, but not for long. Consider that for future purchases. 

This goes for other beginners too.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Tom Parkins said:


> Somewhat related: You might consider buying some things on the used market. That sounds strange. BUT, The Facebook G Scale Swap and Shop is a closed group. When somebody sells and says in excellent condition you can have a fair degree of confidence. The guys are all pretty truthful. A few bad eggs have slipped in, but not for long. Consider that for future purchases.
> 
> This goes for other beginners too.


I'll have to look into the facebook page! Thanks for the tip! I've been watching eBay for my Piko stuff, but everyone is listing them more then what I can buy them from a hobby shop online. Now I did get some good deals on some freight cars, picked up a Bachmann Reefer car for like 29.99 and I picked up 2 Piko PRR hopper cars for $35.00 each, and plan to get a few more of them if they are still listed. But what good is it having freight cars with no operable engines lol. 

In fact, been running the camelback just to have something going, and I got to do a new video of it, because it's now doing something new. It makes a loud rumble noise and when it does, it actually shakes the loco and floor beneath it, hard to explain, will have to video it later.

I'm thinking of getting the Piko 0-6-0 and Mini Mogul from reindeerpass, and I think I'm going with DCC, but it won't be Piko's DCC/Sound kits. 

Anyone recommend a good DCC/Sound system??

Thanks,

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*little update*

Here is a new video.. Now when I broke this engine in, I did not get the rumble effect, it has just started doing this. Plus you can hear the interferance sound a good bit in this..






What you all think?

Thanks,

Steve


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve;

It almost reminds me of one of those greeting cards with sound that plays a simple tune when one opens the card. The "rumbling" almost seems to be a simple melody. Inappropriate, of course, but it makes me wonder whether part of a song was accidentally copied into the locomotive sound files. It's a real head-scratcher. I hope it can be corrected. 

Best,
David Meashey


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Dave Meashey said:


> Steve;
> 
> It almost reminds me of one of those greeting cards with sound that plays a simple tune when one opens the card. The "rumbling" almost seems to be a simple melody. Inappropriate, of course, but it makes me wonder whether part of a song was accidentally copied into the locomotive sound files. It's a real head-scratcher. I hope it can be corrected.
> 
> ...


LOL, well, Jonathan did say the camelback did have to go back, I just don't know why I have to wait for it to go back and getting the 2 engines that were repaired shouldn't have anything to do with sending the cameback into repairs, but we'll wait and see. Until then, I'll just run the loco here and there. Repaired locos (hopefully) will be here in about 4 days or less.

Thanks.

Steve


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

you shoulda bought a live steam engine. has a very realistic sound system and smoke unit, and best of all, neither stops working correctly!


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> you shoulda bought a live steam engine. has a very realistic sound system and smoke unit, and best of all, neither stops working correctly!


I dunno. If one of my live steamer's gets its timing screwed up, I'm pretty sure I won't be able to fix it myself. I take my sparkies apart all the time  I know what you mean though. I've thought about switching to just live steam, but when I have company, it's nice to just let the sparkies run circles without having to pay close attention, re-water and re-fuel them, etc.

Here's hoping Steve's problems all get sorted out


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> you shoulda bought a live steam engine. has a very realistic sound system and smoke unit, and best of all, neither stops working correctly!


I would love to do live steam, but 3k - 5k is out of the question, I can hardly afford the non working stuff I'm buying now. lol

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Here's an update... I didn't want to but I got tired of it.. So... I hooked up my MRC Prodigy Wireless, to see what it would do. I personally didn't think it would even work.. but it does... Unfortunately I get the same results! So this tells me, it's the decoders. Piko has a long way to go if it is...


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I can get you into live steam for $540


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never had a DCC decoder's sound get interference. It's possible I guess, like some weird interfering signal gets in the amplifier path.

I've had poor results with Soundtraxx in large scale. There is definitely a defect there in the decoder operation, and the noise when the smoke unit starts is wrong also, I think that smoke unit is just a heater, i.e. a resistor... if that is so, then, there is no way a constant, simple load should cause this.

I believe there is a fundamental design flaw, perhaps the system's internal power supplies are taxed/overloaded and are going in and out of regulation...

I know you must have posted elsewhere, but it only happens with smoke on?

Greg

p.s. it sounds like you have mechanical issues also.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I've never had a DCC decoder's sound get interference. It's possible I guess, like some weird interfering signal gets in the amplifier path.
> 
> I've had poor results with Soundtraxx in large scale. There is definitely a defect there in the decoder operation, and the noise when the smoke unit starts is wrong also, I think that smoke unit is just a heater, i.e. a resistor... if that is so, then, there is no way a constant, simple load should cause this.
> 
> ...


Hi Greg!!!

To answer a few of your questions...

Jonathan (Piko USA) does believe it's a decoder issue (or at least I hope so. lol) He did tell me that he sent a Mogul to Soundtraxx for them to figure out, but what good does that do with these faulty products on the market.

Jonathan, also said, that you should hear a hum, when you start up the smoke, personally I never heard that.. all I could hear was the heating up.. and then the popping that it does.

And, yes, I only get that sound, when the smoke is on. If it's off, no strange sounds at all.. Somewhere in my ramblings, I have two emails posted from Jonathan explaining alot of what he found.

Thanks for your thoughts.. I'm a little discouraged right now, since I have nothing to run, LOL. I'm hoping for the 2 repaired engines to be here mid week, but then have to question what all they did, and will I still get that sound with the Mogul. The saddletank, I never had a problem with the sound at all, just the bad motor..

Steve!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, I'm pretty sure that smoke unit is a resistor only (not fan driven)... no way there should be a hum... ever hear smoke humming?

Now, your second video does have the sound of the steam dynamo starting when you start up, that is correct..

The other random sound with the 2 or 3 tones is melodic, and is also weird. 

The Soundtraxx response, that something in the loco is causing interference is, well, in my opinion, BS. It comes and goes randomly and is melodic, if there was interference, where would it come from? The smoke unit? No that is a constant steady state draw. From the motor? No way, it would happen all the time and be tied to speed.

Nope, this is probably an OEM decoder from them, with some cost savings stuff in it, and my guess is the smoke unit overloads the internal systems in the loco and randomly things go bonkers.

My experiences with soundtraxx over the years, (the last 10) is that they are often sensitive to voltage and also go into strange "overheat" situations, where the decoder falsely detects an overload condition. I waited on promises for about 6 years on the large scale Tsunami and gave up. When they finally started making something (I think the first was OEM for a Bachmann shay), it had issues.



Greg


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Treeman said:


> I can get you into live steam for $540


lol Mike.. would that be an accucraft 4-4-0??? 

I'll have to go over I guess and see what you may have.

<later>
Well, didn't care too much for the Dora or Ruby.. But I did like the Baldwin 4-4-0 or the Mogul. LOL but still $2,100 + little much. but they are nice looking! I have about 1/2 that right now for the train pot, and still have a few non working Piko engines I want to buy, not to mention track and cars..

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Greg Elmassian said:


> So, I'm pretty sure that smoke unit is a resistor only (not fan driven)... no way there should be a hum... ever hear smoke humming?
> 
> Now, your second video does have the sound of the steam dynamo starting when you start up, that is correct..
> 
> ...


Wow, just wow.. Well, I don't know what's going to happen if I get the mogul and it still does it. Jonathan did say he tested but didn't hear anything other then the normal hum, when he started the smoke unit. LOL yeah I said hum..  Still can't figure out whey he's having hold the camelback here either, but he wants me to wait until the repaired ones get back. I'm thinking there is something wrong with your stuff, fix it now so I can enjoy it for the holidays, especially now that it's making a new sound which is shown in the 2nd video.. it's almost like something rubbing, and causing the engine to rumble and shake.

I'm just hoping since it's PIKO.. they will keep on soundtraxx to get this fixed, and since Piko is a manufacturer, they may have better luck getting it done.

Right now, I'm almost ready to send my engines in to have someone tear all that crap out and put something else in it.. unfortunately, Piko doesn't know this will be done at their expense yet. LOL

Steve


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

2poor4Gscale said:


> lol Mike.. would that be an accucraft 4-4-0???
> 
> I'll have to go over I guess and see what you may have.
> 
> ...


The Ruby is a pretty common starter to get into live steam. A less expensive loco to learn if you enjoy the process of firing a steam locomotive.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Mogul & Saddletank Arrive Back Home*

Well, got the Mogul and Saddletank back today.. and here is the outcome. 






Seems to be working fine now.

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Treeman said:


> The Ruby is a pretty common starter to get into live steam. A less expensive loco to learn if you enjoy the process of firing a steam locomotive.


I don't think I'd mind firing one up, but I think I need to get established in G scale, I don't think I'd like the idea of firing one up inside. lol, plus I just bought a PRR 0-6-0T Starter set. <hint hint> I plan on taking my Digital B&O 0-6-0T and swapping shells with the PRR. The wheel base on it is a little larger. Jonathan, swapped out the old wheel base and put a new one on it when it was in for repairs. The mogul is fine now, just waiting on another call tag to fix the Camelback. 

Oh, got my other items today.. Thanks!! didn't expect them today, and they came the same time my repaired engines did. PS. I couldn't find the SB battery holder for the signals.

I'll probably do another order Wednesday as well..

Thanks again,

Steve


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Now, the $64 million dollar question, what did they change in your locos?

I wonder if it was not just a firmware update in the decoder.

Did you get any information?

Greg


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Sup?*



Greg Elmassian said:


> Now, the $64 million dollar question, what did they change in your locos?
> 
> I wonder if it was not just a firmware update in the decoder.
> 
> ...


I got this the day they sent them back to me. And I must first say.. I am TOTALLY done buying anything Piko! 2 days later, I have not heard one word from Jonathan on getting the Camelback fixed, so it sits here collecting dust. Probably had no intentions on even having me send it in. Probably wanted me to hold on to it thinking that the store would not take it back either. But here is his response to what they did to the engines. PS. The Mogul is making the same sound as the Camelback now.. like a heavy rumble/shaking sound. Yup.. he really tested it out alright..

"Both have received complete gearboxes of a newer type than they had, so they
now have gear ratios that should match up fairly well to your Camelback.

The 38213 (the mogul) also received a complete replacement tender chassis with all the
electronics. This is actually one made later, for a Camelback loco, so we
are certain it is not from the same production run as the original one in
your loco.

As mentioned previously, the sound decoders in these locos are basically all
the same design. We spent a lot of time with SoundTraxx developing the
design so that it works well, and because of that we've never felt a need to
change it. The only thing that varies from one production run of locos to
the next is the selection of whistle tones (so all our locos don't sound the
same) and the coal shoveling sound, which is factory-set to "off" for locos
that do not model coal-burners. Otherwise, the board design is the same.

After quite a bit of back and forth with SoundTraxx, my best guess is that,
on the last run of sound decoders for the 38213 PRR Moguls, there was
perhaps a component on the circuit board that was within the normal specs,
but right out at the limits. There is usually some tolerance in electronic
components, and SoundTraxx constantly has to find different suppliers for
the many individual components that go into a circuit board. Even with the
same part number from the same supplier, one batch can be different than
another."

Steve


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

*Venting*

So I have to vent..

I finally heard from Jonathan.. He informs me that he has not heard from soundtraxx yet, but yes the engine does have to go back.

That was it.. nothing else. Not one question answered, I was asking basic stuff like is there a CV listing somewhere for the engines.. etc. Not to mention 2 days later, I still have my engine.. sitting here all packed up and ready to go. And to think I just bought another Piko starter set, not to mention a crap load of freight cars.. WTH is wrong with me..

I'm about to write one more time, and I don't think he's going to like what I have to say.

Steve


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

DONT DO IT!!



I undestand your frustation. if you keep bugging them, although it IS their fault, they might get annoyed and just stop responding.That wouldnt be good If i were you, i would buy either


A Accucraft
B LGB
C Bachamnn


hope this helps


nate


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Patience, grasshopper.  Give Piko and Soundtraxx a chance to figure things out. You did at least get a response, brief though it may be. They did confirm there's a problem that they will fix. That's 90% of the battle right there with many companies--getting them to acknowledge and work to fix the problem. 

If the loco they sent back is acting up again, document it, and write down as much information about your particular set-up as you can; things like voltage to the track, whether it's linear or PWM, whose controller you're using. All those things can have an impact on how a DCC-equipped loco may run. A DCC decoder is a computer, and we all know how reliable those can be. 

So, before you go burning bridges between yourself and Piko, give them the benefit of the doubt that they're genuinely interested in making sure your trains run well. I've known Jonathan since he was with LGB many moons ago. So far as I can tell from talking to him at recent conventions, he's every bit as committed to making sure Piko builds its reputation for quality as he was making sure LGB maintained theirs. And Soundtraxx stands behind their stuff as well. I had to send a decoder back to them fairly recently. It took a few weeks, but they tracked down the issue and made good. A little patience goes a long way towards successful resolutions. 

Later,

K


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

East Broad Top said:


> Patience, grasshopper.  Give Piko and Soundtraxx a chance to figure things out. You did at least get a response, brief though it may be. They did confirm there's a problem that they will fix. That's 90% of the battle right there with many companies--getting them to acknowledge and work to fix the problem.
> 
> If the loco they sent back is acting up again, document it, and write down as much information about your particular set-up as you can; things like voltage to the track, whether it's linear or PWM, whose controller you're using. All those things can have an impact on how a DCC-equipped loco may run. A DCC decoder is a computer, and we all know how reliable those can be.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the note K..

Yeah, I heard from Jonathan tonight thank goodness. Asked what I wanted the CV listing for, that most don't need to be changed, it's really no biggie to me, I just thought maybe they had extra bell settings. Guess not. I did let him know the camelback is waiting for pickup. he's just worried they don't have nothing to replace the decoder with, since Soundtraxx is still working on the problem. PS. this is all their stuff. meaning, it's their DCC equipment running on a basic oval of track. He did finally answer my questions on the 0-6-0 and the Mini Mogul, so happy for that, because I was thinking of getting them and adding sound. But he stated that they will have the older gearboxes and wheel sets. I asked if I could change them out later.. so it's all good right now.

I know Piko is trying to work this out, and it''s odd that I"m they only one reporting this, but yet he sees it himself. Guess I'm the only one using DCC and smoke. lol

Just wish they'd produce a few more steamers..

Steve


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## Doug C (Jan 14, 2008)

Steve; 

I'm not going to back read to find out  .... but were you planning to buy some of the piko wood-sided passenger cars for your steamers. 

TW sent out a email today with alleged sale; 
ex. http://www.trainworld.com/manufactu...nger-freight/PIKO-38618-Wood-Coach-Southern-/ 



doug c


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Doug C said:


> Steve;
> 
> I'm not going to back read to find out  .... but were you planning to buy some of the piko wood-sided passenger cars for your steamers.
> 
> ...


Already got some PRR ones from TW, but I don't shop there anymore since they cancelled a good size order that I placed on their last sale.. they imo are scammers, I did there Thanksgiving sale, over $800 and they cancelled for no reason, said they would call with a reason, and never did.

Steve


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