# Hostling an Aristo LS Mikado with compressed air?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I took my Aristo-Craft Live Steam Mikado to a steam-up a few weeks ago (1st run in a few years). It ran great!

Then It took it to a train show this weekend and just brought it back into the house. The darned thing in its aluminum case is darned heavy.

I hate packing it up (I can never figure out exactly how it should go in its box) and I hate unpacking it and carrying it to the garage. I'm not as young and agile as I was when I bought it.

As I was lugging it to the house I remembered reading years ago about a company that used a steam switcher for their limited needs and ending up converting it to run on plain compressed air.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireless_locomotive

It occurred to me that if I could use compressed air to drive (hostle) the Mikado - just from the house to the outside track and again from the outside track to a siding inside the house - I might eliminate having to carry the darned thing inside to store it and outside to run it (after fueling and all that other stuff).

Is anyone doing this with an Aristo-Craft Live Steam Mikado or with anything else?

Is it a dumb idea and if so, why?

As I see it I would just need to have a fitting from a compressed air hose to match the fitting on the loco; watch the pressure gauge to stay within limits; drive it outside with the Radio Control Remote; once it is at the "refueling station" I would then add the propane/butane etc.; fire it up and run it.

When done, if I had let the pressure get too low, perhaps add a bit of compressed air (enough to get it inside) and never have to lift or carry it. After parking the loco the remaining steam or air or water could be drained out.

Alternately if the pressure was unable to get the Mike up the ramp into the garage layout I could possibly double head it with an electric Aristo Mikado (or other loco) and pull it up the ramp to the indoor siding it would be parked on. I already use batteries or track power to power the LGB Mikado sound system I put in the Aristo LS Mike Tender and to power the passenger car lights.

Does this make sense?

If not, why not?

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry,
I sometimes feel the same about my heaviest loco an Accucraft EBT Mikado. Of the scenarios you propose I would favor using a battery or electric loco to move your Mike.
Having said that I'll be interested to hear if anyone has experience with compressed air in our size Locos.
Have fun,
Tom


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Why not just run it inside under steam? All you need is a well-ventilated indoor storage area.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Pete Thornton said:


> Why not just run it inside under steam? All you need is a well-ventilated indoor storage area.


Pete, if my comment about batteries for the LGB electronic sound system in the LS Mike and using track power for my passenger car lights with my LS Mike does not get me lynched, if I answered your question honestly, I truly would be lynched. 

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Tom Bowdler said:


> Jerry,
> I sometimes feel the same about my heaviest loco an Accucraft EBT Mikado. Of the scenarios you propose I would favor using a battery or electric loco to move your Mike.
> Having said that I'll be interested to hear if anyone has experience with compressed air in our size Locos.
> Have fun,
> Tom


Hi Tom,

When the steam pressure gets too low to drive the Mikado, it can still be pushed with little difficulty to get it back to the refueling station (this is where I might pull it - with an electric Mikado or with 1 or 2 SD-45s) back to its storage siding indoors.

On the other hand, when the Mikado is cold and you push it, the wheels will not rotate freely. This is why I came up with the idea of using compressed air to turn the drivers to get the Mikado outside where I could fuel it.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry

I don't have any live steam, but I have been to many live steam events. I have observed dead, unfired engines being easily pushed. 

Is there a valve that can be opened to permit easy pushing? I don't know, but they seem to be easier than pushing some of my electrics.

Chuck


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

chuck n said:


> Jerry
> 
> I don't have any live steam, but I have been to many live steam events. I have observed dead, unfired engines being easily pushed.
> 
> ...


Hi Chuck,

I don't know. Perhaps what started this thought for me was that at the train show some lady, right after telling her kid not to touch it, reached up and started pushing my LS Mike (the wheels did not turn).

Even if they did turn I would somehow have to push the Mike around the garage layout, through a window, down a ramp, through a raised barrier, through the lower deck screened porch, out through another raised barrier, down another ramp and eventually to where I could get to it and fuel it.

My idea is that steam would never get the Mike up the ramp but with enough steam or compressed air to simply allow the Mike to be pulled without resistance I might be able to get it indoors and outside with a minimum of effort on my part.

As you know, I am a track power guy. I have only run the Live Steam Mikado 4 or 5 times (total) since I bought it. It sits in its box for years at a time and that makes me feel guilty for even owning it because it really is a very nice and well performing loco.

I spent the money to find out if I liked Live Steam. It is possible I might get to like it a bit if I did not have to put so much effort into getting it from its box out onto the layout. For me, winter is too cold and summer is too hot to mess with it but it will soon be cool enough where it might be fun to run it a bit (and then put it away until spring).

Jerry


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

If you put it in forward or reverse and open the throttle, it should roll quite freely. Just be sure to put it in the appropriate gear for the direction you plan to push/pull it (forward for forward, reverse for reverse) to avoid the risk of pumping oily condensate back into the boiler. Oh, and don't forget to close the throttle again before you fire it up!

I don't see any harm in running it on air for short periods, it's a pretty common practice for bench testing, valve timing, etc., so I don't see why running on air on track should be any different. As long as you're not running it on air for extended periods without ever actually steaming it (or you are at least making sure the cylinders are sufficiently lubricated if you do), and you are not overpressurizing the boiler, it shouldn't damage the engine. 

I'm not sure what kind of distance you need to cover to reach the layout from the house, but you will most likely find that your range is pretty limited on a single charge of air, unless you leave it connected to a long air hose. On the other hand, as long as you have water in the boiler and a good head of steam, you can get surprisingly far on residual steam after shutting off the gas, so that is one possible alternative for getting it back to the house anyway.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,
some time ago we had a discussion on how to build a loco running on compressed air:
http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/43242-compressed-air-steam-locomotive.html
In your case an idler car with a small paint-ball canister and a pressure reduction valve would fit the bill perfectly. One refill of the canister would probably be enough for a running season.
Regards


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

You won't get far on a charge of compressed air, if you keep the pressure within the limits of the steam boiler. When running on steam, the pressure and quantity of steam is replenished as it is removed (by running) because the water is storing the energy and a portion will convert to steam when the pressure drops as the unit runs. But when it is just compressed air, every cylinder full of "air" reduces the pressure and there is nothing to put it back, so the pressure drops and you quickly lose it all.

To prove it to yourself that just a charge of air in the boiler won't work to move the engine far, put the engine up on blocks or on a treadmill and pump the boiler pressure up with a bicycle pump to whatever pressure you normally run at and then open the throttle to let the wheels spin. I bet you might get 20 or 30 revolutions and then it will stop... and the last half of those turns will have no power to actually move the engine if it were on track and not freely spinning it wheels.

The only thing to be concerned about would be oiling the cylinders, but if the engine as been run on steam with adequate steam oil, then the cylinders should be pretty will lubricated and the "air" won't remove it (like "Steam" does). Short distances/times of running on air will not be a problem unless it is a new engine, then you would need to add a drop or two of oil to the steam line to lubricate the parts in the valve chest and cylinder.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Jerry, sure you can run your Mikado on air, but it is much simpler to run it on gas and steam, as intended. Just prepare it for the run at home, with warm/quite hot water, and off you go. Not a lot of fumes at home (or any other enclosed space where you store) and you are ready to transfer to your destined track for the actual running. I regularly test locomotives at home (on the kitchen sink). Some small (like the Decauville or a Porter, some large - the C-25 is perhaps the largest that fits on my kitchen sink)... Largest engines such as the NGG-16 or the K's I have to test on the floor - that does create some steam/oil mixture in the living room but then, I like steam locomotives, right... Actually, using preheated water helps a lot, and shortens the time to start moving. Pressurised air will move your loco if it runs well and has been well lubricated and run with oil in the lubricator before. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi PS your sound idea is great - I wrote this a few years ago when you first suggested it, but I think that the sound should be not pre-recorded but synthesised&mixed&amplified from the actual sounds of the live steamer.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

@Zubi:
running an engine on steam indoors under supervision is a no-brainer, but having it pass through a wall and may be under stairs is quite different. If the loco derails with the fire on it can get dangerous very quickly. So the idea of using compressed air is not so bad.
@Semper:
Of course using just the boiler as a reservoir won't buy you much "mileage". However using a paint ball tank with a pressure reduction feeding the boiler should work perfectly. In the link I posted we did some calculations which proved the feasibility.
Regards


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,

Lubrication of the cylinders is your biggest problem, not using compressed air. We store our 1.5 scale Mogul in the engine barn at LALS. That engine weighs 500 pounds. We move it to the steaming bay by towing it using a 1.6 scale SW1500. That move is about 300 feet. After we cool down on the previous run, we squirt some steam oil into the cylinders by removing the snifter valves. Squirt a few times in each valve chest and put the snifters back in. During the time it sits in the barn, the oil drains down into the cylinders. We also put the Johnson bar in the position of the direction the engine is going so it is easier to move (as previously stated by others). I also agree that compressed air will not move that locomotive very far. Just not the same principle as steam.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary Armitstead said:


> Jerry,
> 
> ....I also agree that compressed air will not move that locomotive very far. Just not the same principle as steam.


Gary,
did you read the link I posted about compressed air? We estimated a range of several hundred yards getting out of a paint ball tank with pressure reducer hooked up to the boiler. 
Regards


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, using an EXTERNAL (even if in a trailing car) "HIGH PRESSURE" air tank will gain you a lot of mileage, but the implication here was to just pressurize the locomotive boiler with air and run on that. The boiler will not hold enough air at the normal operating pressure and you'd be CRAZY to try to put several hundreds (thousands?) of pounds per square inch of air into just the standard Large Scale Live Steam Locomotive boiler... can you say, KABOOM!  

The Paint ball pressure tank will hold a sufficient volume of air to make it work, but I am not sure if it is worth the expense of filling a Paint Ball tank just to move the locomotive in and out of the house... but what does it cost to have a Paint Ball tank filled?... it is obviously cheap enough that folk have a lot of fun painting their friends funny colors! Have to calculate the feet per dollar expense to know if it is worth the expense in place of the effort of carrying the loco by hand.

Just be sure to use that pressure reducer between the Paint Ball tank and the locomotive!!!! Not nice to dump that much pressure into something designed for less than 100 PSI!


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Semper,
Sorry to appear stubborn, but from your reply I conclude you did not read the link either. We discussed in detail the tank, pressure reducer and cost of refill. If someone has problems carrying a heavy loco, shooting down ideas which might be useful is not very helpful. Discussions like these, where out of the box ideas are discarded without looking at the facts keep me from posting more in this forum. I am also member of a forum of mostly scratch builders where Jerry's question would have started a lively discussion. By the way, as a scientist with 40 years of experience designing very complex equipment for the semiconductor industry I have some idea what I am talking about. Again sorry for the rant, lets go back to enjoying our little steamers.
Regards


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner,

I DID read your link and I understand where you are coming from AND I am impressed with your forty years of experience as a scientist. That said, I STILL would not put oxygen into a steam engine boiler because of ONE thing........with compressed oxygen/air, there is ALWAYS water present unless you have a very efficient drying system to remove that water. Also it would scare the daylights out of me to be anywhere near a tank at 3000 psi feeding a vessel that may have a boiler capable of running at 100-120 psi. One flaw in the pressure regulator on that 3000 psi tank and your world would end very quickly and it would not be pretty. That's my concern. Also putting oxygen in a SMALL boiler like Aristo's Mikado or even a medium size like our Mogul, the amount of water particles would definitely set-up early failure of the material used on the inside of the boiler. I have over fifty years experience with steam boilers used in 1" and 1-1/2" engines and the word was ALWAYS to keep oxygen out of the boiler. Period. All pressure vessels should be handled with extreme care and to give the average hobbyist the OK to inject oxygen into a small boiler just to move it around, is "risky". Just my couple of cents. 

I am 72 years old and grew-up in the steam drop hammer forging industry. My Dad and grandfather owned California Well Tool & Machine Works, later became California Drop Forge Co.in Los Angeles (still there as a matter of fact). I was raised around steam boilers the size of small houses. I have an idea of what I'm talking about.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: No problem... you do not appear stubborn to me. And yes I did take a look at the referenced thread, but I did not read it from stem to stern. I did however do a search for "Cost", "$" and "Dol" and none of those are in the thread... I then looked a bit closer and found three references to price.. "20.00", 5-6.00" and "8.00". I will assume those are American Dollar amounts, but without a "$", "£", "¥" or some other currency indicator one really has no true info as to what is meant. In addition, they don't indicate the cost of the hassle of going someplace to fill the tank, if you cannot do it yourself... and not all communities have a SCUBA store, or a Paint Ball arena, so it can be difficult or costly for some to obtain a "refill". I vaguely remember seeing a sign at a store sporting goods counter at one time that listed refills for Paint Ball guns in the $30 range... but not being a Paint Ball enthusiast I have no idea what size of a tank that will fill, and I didn't pay that much attention to it.

And, again, the original question indicated coming up with an adapter to the locomotive to pressurize the boiler. That is the part that has me being stubborn... DO NOT PRESSURIZE the BOILER with air. As is stated in the other thread, you won't get far at normal pressures. And as I implied, you run the risk of damaging your Live Steamer at the minimum, and mayhem and DEATH as a maximum if you exceed the design pressure.

I understand that some folk think that once something has been written on the web, it should not be reiterated... just reference the original place and drop it... I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I see this as a SAFETY issue and I WON'T just say "go read someplace else".

Besides, isn't THIS a "lively discussion" like you refer to that might occur on the scratch builder's forum?

Do NOT PRESSURIZE the BOILER with air! Adding an external tank and pressure reducer? Maybe, but that is outside of my experience and desire, so I won't poo-poo it, nor endorse it... I will however CAUTION everyone about it.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm pretty sure paintball canisters use CO2 instead of oxygen, and a little moisture in the air shouldn't damage a copper boiler that's normally full of water anyway. Still, it sounds like your options are use an external pressure vessel and regulator which will need to be recharged frequently, use a stationary air compressor and a long air hose (which may not be practical depending how far you need to go), use a towed air compressor that runs off track power (if you can find one powerful enough yet small enough to mount on a flatcar). Any one of those things might make an interesting proof-of-concept, but as a practical matter it's going to be much easier to hook up a sparkie and tow it.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Without proper mechanical and chemical deaeration, oxygen in the feed water enters the boiler. Much is flashed off with the steam; the remainder can attack boiler metal. Oxygen in water produces pitting that is very severe because of its localized nature. Water containing ammonia, particularly in the presence of oxygen, readily attacks copper and copper bearing alloys. The resulting corrosion leads to deposits on boiler heat transfer surfaces and reduces efficiency and reliability.

Oxygen is highly corrosive when present in hot water. Even small concentrations can cause serious problems: iron oxide generated by the corrosion can produce iron deposits in the boiler. Oxygen corrosion may be highly localized or may cover an extensive area. Oxygen attack is an electrochemical process that can be described by the following reactions:

Oxygen pitting
Anode: Fe è Fe2+ + 2e-

Cathode: ½ O2 + H2O + 2e- è 2 OH-

Overall: Fe + ½ O2 + H2O è Fe(OH)2

Oxygen corrosion in boilers copied from LennTech Boiler Maintenance site. 

MOST boilers used in large riding scale boilers are steel. 1 in 10 might be copper. This is what I'm talking about. Straight oxygen, under pressure to run a locomotive, not a good idea. Period. And pressurizing a small copper boiler like Aristo's Mikado, also bad idea. Period. And this is exactly what Jerry (OP) asked. Too much distraction here for what could become a real safety issue.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

OK,
now we have a discussion going . I will try to stick to my guns and reply to the objections:
1. Corrosion. Let's set the scenario. In the morning the loco is cold and may or may not be filled with water. The tube to the paint ball tank is hooked up and the (copper) boiler pressurized. The loco runs on compressed air for probably less than a minute, before the air tank is removed and the pressure released. In the evening the same happens again, may be this time with warm (not hot) water in the boiler. These 2 minutes of pressure once a week will never be enough to start any significant chemical reaction. Many of us run their locos on air for hours to adjust the valve gear or simply run it in. In most cases the filler valve is used to pressurize the boiler. I have never heard of a copper boiler being damaged by this procedure. A full size boiler being fired 24/7 for a long period of time is much more vulnerable to corrosion. 
2. Safety. According to Jason K. the pressure reducer is an integral part of the tank. Do you think the safety conscious US let you use a 3000PSi tank near your body (face?) without adequate redundancy of material/equipment? If you feel uneasy about the pressure vessel, you can use plastic tubing between tank and boiler, which ruptures at much lower pressure than the boiler. Most G-gauge boilers do not explode at excessive pressure, but the thin walled flue collapses, ruptures and releases the pressure. With steam the drop in pressure generates more steam which in turn delays the pressure relief and leads to an explosion in large boilers due to crack propagation. This does not happen with air and small boilers.
3. Refill. This is a valid point. If you have to drive 30miles to get a refill then the whole idea is not worth it. But if you or a family member have access to a paint ball facility it is a different matter.
If of course a sparkie can pull the loco (assuming you still have a sparkie ), then again the idea is a bad one.
Looking forward to your replies! By the way, the original thread was started in order to evaluate if it is possible to design a compressed air loco.
Regards


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

First, let me thank everyone for everything that has been posted. I have been quiet about it because most of the discussion has been over my head and I have been trying to understand it as it applies to me.

Second, I have had to give up on my primary plan to run from the garage layout to the outside layout - there are R2 curves I cannot avoid and the Mikado cannot negotiate those R2 (5' diameter curves). A possible alternative also does not seem practical to me at this time.

The problem still remains the same - getting the Live Steam Aristo Mikado to the outside layout without having to take it out of its case and carry it to the outside layout. 

Running it on my inside layout is not an option I wish to pursue because that layout is already full of track powered trains and it would be a nightmare to move other stuff out of the way to run my one and only live steamer - which would be virtually inaccessible if it stopped anywhere in about 90% of that layout. 

This brings me to the only practical solution that I can think of - to put the Aristo LS Mike in the loco yard where I park my "outside" electric locomotives. This has its own set of challenges:

1. that loco yard is at floor level - actually it is below floor level and I would just about have to be on my hands and knees to put the Mike on the track or to try to fire it up. There is only one siding out of 8 (the front one) where I could physically put the Mike on the track. 

2. That siding would be about about 50 - 75 feet from where I would need to fire up the Mike outside. That involves one 180 degree R3 curve, down a 10 degree ramp, around another 180 degree R3 curve, and then backing up to where I would fire it up.

3. The objective would be to make using the Mike simple enough that I would be encouraged to run it more often. Currently I run it an average of once a year (20 - 30 minutes a year). Currently it is just too much work and effort (to me) to want to fire it up so the result has been that it has sat in its case year after year.

The only way this project seems practical to me is if I can find a way to pressurize the Mike, drive it outside, down the ramp and to where I could fire it up. I could then attach the boxcar with the batteries for the sound system and the six heavyweight coaches (perhaps using track power to light the coaches) and run the train.

When done, I doubt the Mike could power itself up the 10 degree ramp to the loco yard but I could probably disconnect everything from the Mike, connect the track powered Aristo Mike (back to back) and pull the LS Mike up to and into the yard where it could sit until its next run.

Since I should probably drain any remaining water, I would have to do that outside where I could raise and rotate the Mike, put it back on the rails and perhaps add compressed air to aid in getting it back to the loco yard.

I hope this all makes sense. I am really serious about this project and it will probably decide if I ever do start using the LS Mike regularly.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,

I have the solution for you (tongue in cheek).....sell that Aristo "faux" steam Mikado and get yourself a REAL steamer that can take your curves on your layout An Accucraft Fairrymead. 

Henner,

Looks like Jerry has given up on moving his Mikado by air. 

And I'll just reply to you with an "agreement to disagree with you" . 'Nough said. 

BTW, the Mogul pictured to the left on my avatar is now 45 years old and just had the original boiler replaced about two years ago. We must be doing SOMETHING right! 










I was a "few years" younger then!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Gary Armitstead said:


> Looks like Jerry has given up on moving his Mikado by air.


Hi Gary,

I don't know why you thought I had given up. I am just approaching it from a new angle (from a different freight yard).

Perhaps these old pictures will help explain what I am trying to to:

This is an overview of the crawl space layout showing where the track goes out into the screened porch and then out to the outside layout (garage layout is to the top left - I gave up on using it because of the R2 curves):









This is the far left of the inside lower yard that now holds the outside electric locomotives:









The red caboose is where I would park the Live Steam Mikado to begin its journey outside:








Moving to the right - the LS Mike would progress on the front track to the right toward the hole in the house cinder block/brick wall:








When the Mike gets to the right it will pass under the ramp to the upper layout and out through the hole in the wall to the outside layout.










This shows the upper layout which can be fed from the lower by a rack-rail ramp that is seldom used:










The exit hole in the house wall that enables access to the outside layout:










This is the old outside layout but it shows the height above the ground where the LS Mikado would have to be driven to and serviced (before it got too high to reach).








This shows the limited access - why it would be difficult to frequently access the LS Mike to prepare it and fire it up:









The compressed air concept seems to me to be the most practical solution for me to get the Live Steam Mikado from an inside siding out onto the main layout where I could then fire it up for normal operations.

I would have to come up with a practical way to inject compressed air into the boiler with hopefully enough air to drive the Mike an estimated 50 - 100 feet to where I could service it.

Alternatively if there is a way to enable me to pull the LS Mike with an electric locomotive both outside and later back inside that would be another acceptable solution.

One has to understand and appreciate that I know absolutely nothing about Live Steam Locomotives. How I would connect compressed air to the Mike is one thing I do not understand.

I like the idea of paint ball compressed air but so far do not understand how I could connect it and the pressures involved seem dangerous to an amateur like me.

There is an air compressor with a hose that could easily reach a locomotive anywhere on the front siding.

Jerry


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

How about to make a lowboy flatcar that the mikado can roll onto, put a truck on the end, navigate the 5' curves then roll off outside. Pushed or pulled by an electric engine or 3. Separating the engine and tender will most likely be required.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry: That drawing makes your trackage look like a spaghetti bowl! But I am jealous of the amount of track you have and the multiple yards. Nice.

I know the frustration of hauling the Live Steamer out and back just to run... in addition to just the engine there is the water, oil, steam oil and fuel and maybe a tool kit and fire extinguisher and, and, and.... At least you have ready access to the yards where you store the rolling stock to build a train... I had to carry all that out, too. So I know the reluctance to do all that work for only a few minutes of run time. I usually ran from 2 PM to about 5 PM on Sunday afternoons... but only an hour of that was actually being the "Engineer"... the rest of the time I was the common laborer hauling things around, then the roundhouse foreman prepping the engine and finally the hostler to get it hot and ready for the mainline. Then the hour of being "Engineer" AND "Fireman" AND 'Switchman" building the train and running on the main line, but once the fuel had run out I was then "demoted" back through the ranks to shut it all down and put ALL of it away (always the tedious letdown  at the end of the joy!)


As for getting the compressed air to the engine... you would need a trailing car to carry the Paint ball tank and its pressure reduction valve. This valve will never let the full 3000PSI inside the tank to be applied outside of the tank... you hook the hose to something and set the output to, say 45PSI, and once there is 45PSI at the end of the hose, the valve cuts off the flow so the end of the hose will never see more than the 45 PSI. If the pressure drops (because it is being used) then the valve opens a wee bit to raise it back to 45.

It is simplest to have some place to attach that end of the hose to the boiler, that way you can use the throttle on the engine to meter the pressure to the cylinders and not have to have some secondary means of controlling it. I don't know the engine you have, so I can only offer suggestions of places to connect... 

If you have a tender pump to move water from the tender to the engine, you could disconnect the hose from the tender to the engine and connect the hose from the Paint Ball tank to the boiler at that point.

If your boiler has a Goodall valve (with a clamp on connection, not just a human-hand press-and-hold connection) to add water to the boiler, you can connect the Paint Ball tank hose there.

I am certain there is some plug on the boiler for the initial filling, and you could either remove that plug and have an adapter that fits the same boss that allows you to connect the external hose, or convert that plug to a one -way valve with a connector for the external hose (right back to the description of a Goodall valve!).

As long as the hose from the external tank is not too stiff to bend to fit close to the engine and not stick out too far to keep the engine from going through openings in the wall, etc. then that will work. Might need some right angle adapters to help with that (possible) problem. Just depends on where you can connect and how that connection can be made.

I know of no commercial-off-the-shelf adapters that I can recommend, sort of depends on what the boiler presents as possible points of connection. The hardware store will have small hose connectors (usually for connecting water to a refrigerator/freezer ice maker). The only problem will be getting something of the right diameter and threads per inch of the boiler boss, etc.

And the suggestion that a "weak" hose be used to present a weak place to prevent an accidental high pressure release from being applied to the more delicate and expensive loco parts is probably taken into account simply by the rubber hose from the Paint Ball tank to wherever it gets attached to on the boiler. Even a hose the pushes over a hose barb can be blown off the hose barb if the pressure gets too great (been there, done that!)

What pressure does your engine normally run at (PSI, BAR, etc.)? Probably want the output of the pressure value on the Paint Ball tank to be preset to close to that value, maybe a wee bit more, but not over what your safety valves are set to (you'd just empty the Paint Ball tank in a hurry if they open and dump the excess!) Obviously the boiler can take that pressure without a problem as it does it all the time while you are running under steam.

One more thing... I used to empty the boiler after every run and soon got tired of doing that (and wasting the distilled water that I just shook out into the kitchen sink) so I stopped doing it. It won't damage a copper boiler if you leave it there (and there is some small savings in not having to replace it for the next run). Just don't let the boiler freeze!!!!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Be very careful choosing the regulator on the paintball tank. I knew a guy who wanted to re-gas his motorbike shocks. He worked out that LPG would be OK but needed to put in the exact pressure so he hooked up the LPG tank to a workshop compressor tank so he could set the compressor regulator to the pressure he needed. As soon as he cracked open the LPG valve slightly the regular on the compressor blew fragments of glass in every direction. Lucky no one lost an eye.

Andrew


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

That is why I keep offering up the cautions. I trust Jerry because he is exercising due caution and asking questions... But I know there are those out there that will read "compressed air" and substitute any source of pressure... "Gee I don't have a CO2 canister, but I do have Granny's old Oxygen tank and the Bar-B-Q's Propane bottle... Here, hold my beer and watch this!"


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

JPCaputo said:


> How about to make a lowboy flatcar that the mikado can roll onto, put a truck on the end, navigate the 5' curves then roll off outside. Pushed or pulled by an electric engine or 3. Separating the engine and tender will most likely be required.


Unfortunately there is too much stuff inside the R1 & R2 curves to accommodate a lowboy flatcar (or even a 1:29 coach).

The Garage Layout was built in two layers to accommodate LGB trains - with Stainz & 2-4-0's on the lower level - and Mogul Passenger & Freight trains (& NW-2's etc.) on the upper level. 

I started with Bachmann Ten Wheelers & Aristo Consolidations but they had to go because they could not handle the LGB R1 turnouts.








I have tried the lowboy concept in the past but there never seemed to be any stability for a heavy load on top of a flatcar or any other top heavy freight car.

The sidings are as long as possible which means the LGB Bumpers at the ends of the sidings severely limit the length of anything going around the R1 curves.

These are old photos but the track remains the same. Everything is now LGB other than NW-2 Switchers.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

​


Semper Vaporo said:


> Jerry: That drawing makes your trackage look like a spaghetti bowl! But I am jealous of the amount of track you have and the multiple yards. Nice.


What makes the layout look like a spaghetti bowl is that it is actually in multiple layers with ramps going from one level to another. The layouts total about 3,000' of LBG Brass Track indoors and about 1,000' of Aristo stainless steel track outdoors with 150+ electric turnouts. Everything is track power or MTS/DCC as battery or anything else would be totally impractical.

The normal train for the LS Mike is a PRR boxcar with batteries for the LGB Mike Sound System and six Aristo PRR heavyweights that are in boxes behind the garage door (I just had a door opener installed for easier access to them). Alternatively there is an Aristo PRR caboose with LGB ball bearing wheels that I could use to make up a freight train. All the coach and caboose lights can be powered by track power. 

This may help to understand where the Mike will start from and go to:

The LS Mike would hopefully be stored on the bottom siding. A large reversed sweeping "S" would get the Mike to the outside layout where it could be reversed to a fueling station.








To better understand the Aristo-Craft Live Steam Mikado I have put the Instruction Manual here:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/Air Mikado/84100 Llive Steam Mikado.pdf

*There is a Goodall Valve. The fitting on the hose from the water bottle is pressed into the Goodall valve which is how I would anticipate getting compressed air into the boiler.*








There is also a Pressure Gauge and apparently the LS Mike is intended to run on 25 psi:

"After this point, close the overflow valve. Continue to heat the water and you will notice the pressure gauge going up. When it rises to 25 psi (pounds per square inch) or 0.25 MPA and the front cylinder valves begins to release steam vapor, the heating process is over and your train is ready to run"










*If possible I would like to simply add 25 psi to the boiler from my air compressor or portable air tank and hopefully have enough pressure to drive (or push or pull) the LS Mike from the inside yard to the outside refueling station. When done running the Mike I would hope to (either with residual pressure or by adding enough air to) bring the boiler back to 25 psi and, using an electric loco, pull it back to its parking siding. I could put parallel sidings in the 1st & 2nd sidings to pull the LS Mike into one siding and then uncouple it from the pulling loco to free up the pulling loco and move it back to its own siding.*

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

We could take bets on how many inches you could move the engine on 25PSI of air!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Semper Vaporo said:


> You won't get far on a charge of compressed air, if you keep the pressure within the limits of the steam boiler. When running on steam, the pressure and quantity of steam is replenished as it is removed (by running) because the water is storing the energy and a portion will convert to steam when the pressure drops as the unit runs. But when it is just compressed air, every cylinder full of "air" reduces the pressure and there is nothing to put it back, so the pressure drops and you quickly lose it all.
> 
> To prove it to yourself that just a charge of air in the boiler won't work to move the engine far, put the engine up on blocks or on a treadmill and pump the boiler pressure up with a bicycle pump to whatever pressure you normally run at and then open the throttle to let the wheels spin. I bet you might get 20 or 30 revolutions and then it will stop... and the last half of those turns will have no power to actually move the engine if it were on track and not freely spinning it wheels.
> 
> The only thing to be concerned about would be oiling the cylinders, but if the engine as been run on steam with adequate steam oil, then the cylinders should be pretty will lubricated and the "air" won't remove it (like "Steam" does). Short distances/times of running on air will not be a problem unless it is a new engine, then you would need to add a drop or two of oil to the steam line to lubricate the parts in the valve chest and cylinder.


This seems to clearly explain my thinking and perhaps why it would not work.

While the paint-ball gas is an interesting alternative - it is another complication when I am trying to uncomplicate everything.

Some have said that I should be able to push and pull the LS Mike on the tracks without any pressure in the boiler (perhaps by putting the loco in forward or reverse). If that were true I would probably not have to do anything beyond just hooking the LS Mike to an electric loco and pulling it to where I would then service it.

The fact is that I don't even know for sure which arrow on the Aristo remote is forward or reverse (or is it left or right?).

The truth is that I know so little about live steam I have no idea why this would or would not be possible (perhaps it would work if the loco were hot but not when it is cold and the lubricants may have hardened).

*"pump the boiler pressure up with a bicycle pump to whatever pressure you normally run at"*

This is a perfect solution except I have no idea how to do it.

Where could I buy a Goodall valve fitting to fit to an air hose? What Goodall valve fitting would I need to fit the Aristo LS Mike Goodall valve? Are they all the same specifications? What sort of an adapter would I need to connect it to an air hose from an air compressor?

For safety I could use an air pressure tank with a gauge so I could fill it to 25 psi and not worry about exceeding any safety limits.

Perhaps the big question would be that when the air was expended and the Mike stopped, could it then be pushed without adding more air?

People ask why I never got into MTS/DCC. The answer is that there were too many confusing details.

People ask why I never got into Live Steam. The answer is that there were too many confusing details.

I have re-read everything at least twice. I think I am back to where I started in that if it is possible to add 25 psi to the boiler and pull the Mike outside to the refueling station I will probably do it and run the Mike a great deal more.

The reality is that the Mike would just have to be pulled about 100 feet (with or without 25 psi air) and then it would be fueled, watered and oiled to be run at least once (20 - 30 minutes) after which the water would be drained and the oil removed and the Mike pulled (with or without 25 psi air) back inside to its siding where any remaining air would be released.

25 psi is not much. I think most live steamers run higher than that. It is not unlikely that it would be impossible to move the Mike enough with 25 psi so this may be an impossible task.

Perhaps the alternative might be to find a way to free wheel the Mike while it is being pulled by an electric loco. That would be even better if it is possible. Perhaps I just know too little about how these things work.

I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Semper Vaporo said:


> We could take bets on how many inches you could move the engine on 25PSI of air!


*Perhaps someone would volunteer to run their live steamer (any live steamer) and see how far it can run on 25 (or 45) psi!* 

The problem with that idea is that it may still be generating some steam which may affect the results.

The problem with any and all ideas is that I would have to go to the effort of getting the dang thing out of its box, carry it outside, down the stairs, and over to the layout and go through firing it up just to test something and then empty everything, wait for it to cool, put it back in its box and haul the dang thing back to where I keep it.

*How about 3 simple questions?*

*1. Can anyone pull and or push their live steamer(s) along the track when the loco is totally cold (not run for at least a day)?

2. If you can, is there anything you have to do to enable your live steamer to be pulled or pushed in either direction?

3. Which live steamers can or can you not do this with?*

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I can move my Aster Mike when totally cold if I put the valve gear in the direction I want it to go and open the throttle a bit. If I do not put it in the correct gear, say I put it in reverse and roll it forward, then there is the risk of pumping steam oil backwards into the boiler which is a contaminate... can cause foaming and mess up the sight glass for accurate readings (not that it is all that accurate anyway). If I do not put it forward or reverse but leave it in neutral, then it might roll if I push down on it to increase adhesion and I run the risk of pumping oil backwards anyway. Even when set to the correct direction, the wheels will often slide instead of rotate, but for short distances I don't see that causing damage... I might feel differently if moving the engine 25 ft twice a day that way!

To know if your engine is set to Forward or Reverse, look at the rod that connects from the steam chest (at the front end of the loco), to the Expansion Link (that arc thingy, probably just forward of the center of the side of the engine {one on each side of the engine], in which the rear end of the rod can move up or down)... if it is in the middle of the arc, the engine is in Neutral, if it is at the top of the arc it is in Reverse, if it is at the bottom of the arc then it is in Forward. (This is true on 99% of all engines in the real world, and "should" be true on our toys, but is NOT "always" so... I hope someone can verify that for you!).

The only live steamers that you should NEVER attempt to move by hand is a "geared engine", such as a Shay, Climax or Heisler... the gearing is such that you will be attempting to make the crank shaft turn much faster than the wheels and you will probably damage something (strip the gears, slip the timing, bend a way shaft, or rip some mounting bracket out!)... just too much torque that way... those types of engines are geared such that the wheels turn slower than the "engine" is spinning the crank shaft; trying to transfer the energy the other way is hard on the mechanical works and not recommended! (Yes, there are people that do it... but I think they should go play the lottery as they are inherently lucky and stand a greater chance to become multimillionaires than any of the rest of us.)


Does your engine have a Goodall valve? If so, it should be simple to just press a bare rubber hose against the opening and hold it down while applying air into the other end somehow (bicycle tire pump, air tank, etc.). I would not bother with the worry of an additional gauge on the supply tank to know when you have 25 PSI in the boiler... pay attention to the boiler pressure gauge, it will tell you the pressure in the boiler. I assume the boiler has safety valves that will lift if you exceed the limits they are set to... do not attempt to circumvent them by taping them down or otherwise plugging them up. Also, do not apply the external pressure faster than they could release it... i.e. just open the valve on the air supply a little bit at a time to see how fast the pressure rises in the boiler and when it gets to your 25 PSI, close it and remove the hose from the Goodall valve. If you are holding the hose onto the Goodall valve by hand, just let go of it and the pressure won't go any higher than when you let go.

To get the best bang (or is that a poor word to use here?) for your effort, the boiler should be EMPTY of water, you will need every cubic inch of boiler space to store compressed air and if the boiler is half full of water then you have only half of the space for air and get only half the distance out of an air charge... like instead of moving 10 inches you will only go 5 inches... and 10 inches is an "inflated" estimate on my part of the distance you will be able to go! (Get the pun there? ha ha ha ha!... sorry, I could not resist!)


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

HMeinhold said:


> OK,
> now we have a discussion going . I will try to stick to my guns and reply to the objections:
> 1. Corrosion. Let's set the scenario. In the morning the loco is cold and may or may not be filled with water. The tube to the paint ball tank is hooked up and the (copper) boiler pressurized. The loco runs on compressed air for probably less than a minute, before the air tank is removed and the pressure released. In the evening the same happens again, may be this time with warm (not hot) water in the boiler. These 2 minutes of pressure once a week will never be enough to start any significant chemical reaction. Many of us run their locos on air for hours to adjust the valve gear or simply run it in. In most cases the filler valve is used to pressurize the boiler. I have never heard of a copper boiler being damaged by this procedure. A full size boiler being fired 24/7 for a long period of time is much more vulnerable to corrosion.
> 2. Safety. According to Jason K. the pressure reducer is an integral part of the tank. Do you think the safety conscious US let you use a 3000PSi tank near your body (face?) without adequate redundancy of material/equipment? If you feel uneasy about the pressure vessel, you can use plastic tubing between tank and boiler, which ruptures at much lower pressure than the boiler. Most G-gauge boilers do not explode at excessive pressure, but the thin walled flue collapses, ruptures and releases the pressure. With steam the drop in pressure generates more steam which in turn delays the pressure relief and leads to an explosion in large boilers due to crack propagation. This does not happen with air and small boilers.
> ...


It is too early for me to have decided anything.

My current plan is to get the LS Mike out and on a test track where I can hopefully get 25 psi into it and see if it can move and if so how far.

I also hope to discover if it is possible to pull it without any air in it.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to give such well thought out answers and comments. I could never have done this on my own.

As far as I know I am not close to any paint ball facilities (that was something I had been really interested in getting into but by the time it became available I'd become too old and no longer able to handle the physical activity of it).

Thanks,

Jerry


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

The Train Department sells Accucraft-compatible Goodall Valves with a miniature quick-disconnect (male) fitting silver-soldered into them, and a pump bottle with a female miniature quick-disconnect fitting on the end of the hose. These things make pumping water into the boiler so much easier, because you don't have to hold onto the fitting where it goes into the valve, you get a positive connection and no leaks, just snap it on, pump, and disconnect when you're done. The Aristo Mikado Goodall valve has a different thread though, so you would have to either make or procure an adapter for an Accucraft-style Goodall valve, or get a quick-disconnect and silver-solder it into the Aristo Goodall valve (or have somebody do it for you). If you do that, you will not only have an easier time pumping water into your boiler, you can also put a miniature quick-disconnect adapter on your air compressor hose, and use that to pump air into your boiler.

A lot of us who have Aristo Mikes have adjusted our safeties up to 45 psi, it runs so much better that way, and the boiler is more than capable of taking the pressure. In fact, I have inadvertently run mine as high as 90 psi (malfunctioning safety) with no ill effects, though at more than three times the manufacturer's spec, I would absolutely NOT recommend running it that high normally. (It did pull like a champ at that pressure though!)


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

rwjenkins said:


> The Train Department sells Accucraft-compatible Goodall Valves with a miniature quick-disconnect (male) fitting silver-soldered into them, and a pump bottle with a female miniature quick-disconnect fitting on the end of the hose. These things make pumping water into the boiler so much easier, because you don't have to hold onto the fitting where it goes into the valve, you get a positive connection and no leaks, just snap it on, pump, and disconnect when you're done. The Aristo Mikado Goodall valve has a different thread though, so you would have to either make or procure an adapter for an Accucraft-style Goodall valve, or get a quick-disconnect and silver-solder it into the Aristo Goodall valve (or have somebody do it for you). If you do that, you will not only have an easier time pumping water into your boiler, you can also put a miniature quick-disconnect adapter on your air compressor hose, and use that to pump air into your boiler.
> 
> A lot of us who have Aristo Mikes have adjusted our safeties up to 45 psi, it runs so much better that way, and the boiler is more than capable of taking the pressure. In fact, I have inadvertently run mine as high as 90 psi (malfunctioning safety) with no ill effects, though at more than three times the manufacturer's spec, I would absolutely NOT recommend running it that high normally. (It did pull like a champ at that pressure though!)


I would not know how to do that and I don't know if I could get a replacement for the Aristo Goodall valve to return the loco back to original. 

Perhaps someone knows where I could get a new Aristo Goodall valve so modified?

Meanwhile, RJD posted this on the Aristo Forum:

I have found with the many hrs of run time I have on my first gen Mike that the drivers turn pretty freely now with out steam. Kind of like broke in. You can try the compressed air I would see no reason why it would not work. Lets us know. Later RJD

*Probably the first thing I need to do is to test my Aristo Mike and see if it can run or be pushed with 0 - 25 psi.*

Jerry


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

How about a different approach? 

Could you make/buy a little cart to carry your Loco to and from your layout? Perhaps just something that holds your current carrier. Maybe you could have a dock where you could roll the engine onto the track at some convenient spot. You could store the engine right on the cart. 

It sounds like the real problem is carrying the engine. The goal is really to make it easier and more convenient.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Eric,

The problem is that there are too many stairs & too many doors to & from the layout. I am getting old (71) and I have a hard enough time getting to the outside layout when I am not carrying anything. That is why I have so many turnouts and run track power. I flip a switch or two and drive the trains to me. No batteries to charge and no steam to fire up. If I cannot drive or pull the LS Mike to an outside fueling station it is of little value to me.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Phippsburg Eric said:


> How about a different approach?
> 
> Could you make/buy a little cart to carry your Loco to and from your layout? Perhaps just something that holds your current carrier. Maybe you could have a dock where you could roll the engine onto the track at some convenient spot. You could store the engine right on the cart.
> 
> It sounds like the real problem is carrying the engine. The goal is really to make it easier and more convenient.


Spoiler!
A Rube Goldberg design is much more fun .
Regards


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Well it was no harm asking I guess. Towing it with a brace ofdeiselsshould work.. If you put it In gear, open the throttle and remove the filler plug I would think it should roll reasonably well. Again not as cool as running on air.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

rwjenkins said:


> The Train Department sells Accucraft-compatible Goodall Valves with a miniature quick-disconnect (male) fitting silver-soldered into them, and a pump bottle with a female miniature quick-disconnect fitting on the end of the hose. These things make pumping water into the boiler so much easier, because you don't have to hold onto the fitting where it goes into the valve, you get a positive connection and no leaks, just snap it on, pump, and disconnect when you're done. The Aristo Mikado Goodall valve has a different thread though, so you would have to either make or procure an adapter for an Accucraft-style Goodall valve, or get a quick-disconnect and silver-solder it into the Aristo Goodall valve (or have somebody do it for you). If you do that, you will not only have an easier time pumping water into your boiler, you can also put a miniature quick-disconnect adapter on your air compressor hose, and use that to pump air into your boiler.
> 
> A lot of us who have Aristo Mikes have adjusted our safeties up to 45 psi, it runs so much better that way, and the boiler is more than capable of taking the pressure. In fact, I have inadvertently run mine as high as 90 psi (malfunctioning safety) with no ill effects, though at more than three times the manufacturer's spec, I would absolutely NOT recommend running it that high normally. (It did pull like a champ at that pressure though!)


My C-19 has a similar system, but the quick-connect is soldered on to the clack/check valve on the back of the boiler. It isn't silver soldered. My filler bottle has the female connector so I can pump water in.

I'm sure a similar system could work on the Aristo Mikado for pumping air in. Jerry - if you can't find a spare goodall valve for your loco, take it out and go to a local hardware store and see if they can identify the threads. It's made in China (I guess) so it is probably a metric thread. [One way to identify it is to go through the hardware store nuts, and find one that fits the threads of your valve, then look for a bolt that will fit the same nut.]
Then call Jason at Train Dept and have him fabricate a Goodall with a quick connect for you, like this one:










He'll also sell you the female (shown on the left) to attach to your air bottle hose.

Btw: steam boilers operate on a range of pressures. The 25psi you mention from the manual is perhaps the minimum pressure to get the loco moving. It will operate on higher pressure - especially if your burner is still generating more steam than it is using - right? The safety valve will eventually pop and release any pressure higher than the maximum - which is whatever the boiler guy decided was the sensible max pressure. Despite the safety valve setting, your boiler was probably pressue tested to 150 psi [do you have a boiler certificate that came with it?] It's quite common for safety valves with a higher setting to be fitted, as Richard says he does with his Aristo. Most of mine are very happy running at 40-50 psi.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

*compressed air loco folder*

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/airloco/airloco.htm

found this online!

Jerry i am sure you can use compressed air in a g scale loco use an air tank from a paintball gun! http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=101928


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

My wife is having a hip replacement in a few days so I have been getting little done on this project.

I had a real Rube Goldberg idea this morning that is probably a nonstarter.

Is there such a thing as a tiny 24VDC air compressor (15 amp or less) that could fit in a G Gauge tender or boxcar?

Since I would only need 25 - 45 PSI - could it be possible? 

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> My wife is having a hip replacement in a few days so I have been getting little done on this project.
> 
> I had a real Rube Goldberg idea this morning that is probably a nonstarter.
> 
> ...


 There are compressors that run from a 12-VDC car battery. High speed, noisy as all get out and extremely small cylinder so it can take a half hour or longer to re-pressurize a car tire from 20 PSI to 30 PSI. I don't know the current draw at 12-VDC, could be pretty high but I don't really know. As fast as they run, even with the tiny cylinder, where it might take 3 or 4 pumps to equal one of the Loco's cylindersfull, it might work, albeit slow to build up pressure. As long as you don't attempt to run the loco fast, it should be able to keep up with the pressure in the boiler. Just not sure of the actual power requirement to run the motor.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Is there such a thing as a tiny 24VDC air compressor (15 amp or less) that could fit in a G Gauge tender or boxcar?


I have a 12VDC air compressor for pumping up car tires that will probably fit in a boxcar. Looks like this:










And check out this one for size (32mm x 52mm) :

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/4-6-9-12Vdc-diaphragm-air_1084611263.html

There's a bunch of them on aliexpress.com, (which I use a lot.) All sizes and 24VDC if you like,


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, I just carry mine out, not using that suitcase it came in. I carry the engine, then the tender and place them on the track where it is higher, like your high line outside. Just fire it up right there and run it. A light tote to carry just the engine can easily be made. I have one I did for my MTH Big Boy to just carry the engine.
Just a 1/4 ply base with strips on the side that straddle the rails. Sanded slope on the front. Strip runs down the middle a little narrower than the space between the wheels. A handle screwed on, I ended up using velcro strips to hold it on. Advantage is it's light weight. I just sit it on the tracks and rolll it off on the rails. When done, roll it back on the tote and take it back inside.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

I just visited my local Harbor Freight store over the weekend and saw some of those mini compressors there, thought about you Jerry! Not sure if it would fit inside a boxcar, but I imagine it could be bolted onto a flatcar, and adapted to run off track power. Just remember what we were saying earlier in this thread about extended running on air and keeping the cylinders lubricated.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

My thought is to fill the Mike with 25 PSI air and then use a compressor to keep just enough air to move the Mike 100 feet outside where I would then run the Mike at least 30 minutes under steam where it would lubricate itself and even if the Mike quits running I should be able to pull it back inside with an electric Mike or SD-45 (or two).

It is not just the weight. It is also the risk of stumbling and dropping a loco (any loco). We are both at an age and condition where Marilyn has fallen & broken a leg and I have fallen (so far without injury).

This is an all or nothing thing. If it proves impossible or impractical I will simply leave the LS Mike in its case.

I like the challenge of finding a way to use plain 25-45 PSI air if I can find a satisfactory way to make it work.

There is a water drain at the back of the Mike and I am wondering if I can use that to put air in the boiler. 25 PSI is so little that with no heat or steam it might work.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Harbor Freight has this for $9.99:

http://t.harborfreight.com/12-volt-250-psi-compact-air-compressor-4077.html

And Tanga has this for $11.99:

http://t.harborfreight.com/12-volt-250-psi-compact-air-compressor-4077.html

Both seem small and light enough to put on a flatcar and are probably less than 10 amps at 12 volts (I might need a 12 volt limiter but an ammeter at the controller would probably work fine).

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I bought this at Harbor Freight this afternoon:

http://t.harborfreight.com/12-volt-250-psi-compact-air-compressor-4077.html

It came with an assortment of fittings. I am sure I'll be able to use one of them.

$9.99 less 20% = $8.00 + tax.

Too cheap to pass up.

Jerry


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

To bad Jerry,this thing won't pump up a small bike tire ,bring it back and get the metal one for i think 59.00$
i been using that one for years to air up my tires! Works great so far! http://www.harborfreight.com/media/...b33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_25036.jpg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> I would not know how to do that and I don't know if I could get a replacement for the Aristo Goodall valve to return the loco back to original.
> 
> Perhaps someone knows where I could get a new Aristo Goodall valve so modified?
> 
> ...


So I take it your Mike is not well broke in and does not free wheel as mine will. Never saw any mention in your post. Later RJD


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

aceinspp said:


> So I take it your Mike is not well broke in and does not free wheel as mine will. Never saw any mention in your post. Later RJD


I have only run my Mike 3 or 4 times (perhaps 3 - 4 hours total).

I have been getting ready for or going back & forth to/from the hospital most of the time since starting this topic so little has been done. Today the doctors said they think Marilyn can go home tomorrow. Perhaps I will be able to get the Mike out in a day or 2.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

*Getting back to Hostling the LS Mikado*

OK. Marilyn is finally home from the hospital and I have been able to unbox the LS Mike and put it on a track where I can test it.

1. The first thing I did was to put the Harbor Freight compressor on a short gondola.










2. Next I connected a CRE-55465 13 amp, 13.8 volt Power Supply to the track so I could power the air compressor from the track.










3. Then I connected the compressor 
a. first to the drain tubing and 
b. then to the water bottle tubing and tried to pressurize the boiler.










*I did not see any movement of the air pressure gauge on the Mike so I quit before I might have done any damage.*

When I started this post, I realized I never did double check whether I could push the Mike on the track (I had seen the wheels lock when a woman at the train show pushed the Mike).

*I was surprised to find that I could easily push the LS Mikado both forward and in reverse with no difficulty (the drivers easily rotated).*

*Now it seems my efforts to run the Mike on compressed air are totally unnecessary. Apparently I should be able to simply pull or push it outside with either an electric Aristo Mikado or with one or two SD-45's.*

*I have no idea why the Mike was not able to be pushed at the show unless it may have had some remaining pressure from when I had run it under steam the week before the show.*

*The important thing now is how I should pull or push it outside the next time I want to run it - without any possible damage to anything?*

*Someone had mentioned that the loco needs to be set for the direction it will be traveling to prevent oil from getting into the boiler.*

*I assume it does not matter if the fuel line is or is not connected as it will be connected prior to firing the loco.*

I also assume that there is no reason to add water until I am ready to fire it up as that would be unnecessary weight that would have to be hauled up or down ramps - or even on flat track.

*At this point it seems the first job is to test pulling the Mike outside and probably back inside just to be sure everything is working correctly.*

*I would guess it would be best to do this with no pressure (or water) in the boiler.*

*Am I missing anything?*

*If this works I just might find myself running this LS Mike regularly as it would eliminate having to haul it outside to run it and then back inside to park it.
*
Thanks to all for your help and suggestions,

Jerry


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

If you have air pressure it should register on the gauge, so either you're not getting pressure in the boiler or you might have a bad pressure gauge. I did on mine, ended up replacing it with one from Accucraft. If you have too much air pressure in the boiler it should start venting through the safety valve, and you should be able to hear and feel it long before it reaches a point of damaging the boiler. Did you try opening the throttle at all with the pressure applied?

It's possible that the engine refused to roll when pushed before because the were cylinders full of condensate, but now that it has had an extended period of inactivity to dry out, it will roll quite freely. You might find that after a run it will be stubborn again, until you clear the condensate from the cylinders.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

rwjenkins said:


> If you have air pressure it should register on the gauge, so either you're not getting pressure in the boiler or you might have a bad pressure gauge. I did on mine, ended up replacing it with one from Accucraft. If you have too much air pressure in the boiler it should start venting through the safety valve, and you should be able to hear and feel it long before it reaches a point of damaging the boiler. Did you try opening the throttle at all with the pressure applied?
> 
> It's possible that the engine refused to roll when pushed before because the were cylinders full of condensate, but now that it has had an extended period of inactivity to dry out, it will roll quite freely. You might find that after a run it will be stubborn again, until you clear the condensate from the cylinders.


I have several sources for air pressure but I was probably not getting enough air into the boiler to move the gauge (I also have a spare air gauge as the original one was defective).

I do not understand exactly how the boiler innards are built. I am assuming that I can add air to the Goodall valve where the Aristo water bottle adds water to top of the boiler or to the bottom rear boiler drain (open of course) but I am not positive about this. 

*As long as I can push-pull the loco there should not be a problem so I plan to proceed without compressed air.*

*I did notice that when I push the forward button on the top of the tender the loco gears move up but when I push the right button (what I had thought to be forward) on the Aristo remote the gears move down.*

*This indicates to me the it is the left button on the remote that actually is the forward position. Is this correct?*

At least, since the loco gears are moving via the remote or the buttons I should be sure that I am pushing the loco in the correct direction.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep, radius rod up is forward, down is reverse. I'm not sure why Aristo set it up this way, which is the opposite of prototype practice. "Upside-down" valve gear is common where the model has D valves and the prototype had piston valves (a lot of Accucraft models are that way), but the Aristo Mikado has piston valves like the prototype.


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## rntfrmme (May 23, 2013)

*compressed air for steam locomotives*

I wonder if the small compressors put out enough cubic feet/min (CFM) of air to run a scale steam locomotive. Being a novice when it comes to live steam I really don't know how many pounds of steam (weight of the water converted to steam, not PSI) it takes over time to run a locomotive. Somewhere, Somebody should have access to the numbers and be able to translate that into CFM needed to run at a steady pace. Possibly cylinder displacement and cycles per minute may come up with a reasonable answer too. I'm kind of thinking out loud here.

Bill


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

rntfrmme said:


> I wonder if the small compressors put out enough cubic feet/min (CFM) of air to run a scale steam locomotive. Being a novice when it comes to live steam I really don't know how many pounds of steam (weight of the water converted to steam, not PSI) it takes over time to run a locomotive. Somewhere, Somebody should have access to the numbers and be able to translate that into CFM needed to run at a steady pace. Possibly cylinder displacement and cycles per minute may come up with a reasonable answer too. I'm kind of thinking out loud here.
> 
> Bill


Hi Bill,

In my case I was not trying to run the loco on air - just enough pressure to (combined with a prefill of 25 PSI) move it from an indoors parking siding to an outdoor fueling station.

My thought was that once the initial resistance was overcome it would not take much additional pressure to keep the Mike rolling to the fueling station.

Jerry


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