# Spirit fired loco restoration attempt...



## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Need some advice. Several years ago I was kindly given a spirit fired locomotive from a very friendly model railroader from the UK under the condition that I would restore it. I was, and still am, very grateful for this, considering I met him only once "real time" at a train show near Paris, France in 2012 where I became very enthusiastic on life steam engines. I had no experience with life steam at all but it would be a great project to learn from.

Shortly after this I dropped model railroading completely for several years because of a divorce and its aftermath. During time I also lost online contact with the man who so generously gave me this engine. 












Now, better times are here again and I would very much like to fulfill the promise to him and restore it, although I still lost contact. I dug up the locomotive from the moving boxes and remembered again that the project got stuck back in 2012 due to a problem with the axles/ wheels / chassis.


In 2012 I disassembled the engine to clear all the parts, taking pictures every step so I could know how to re-assemble again.
The chassis (see picture below) was the last part. Actually I was fine with it but I wanted to change the wheelbase from 32 mm to 45 mm so it could run on LGB track. This could easily be changed on one of the axles. However the other axle gave a lot of problems. The wheels could not be moved and while trying several things to make them move I damaged the axle severely... 


I am not able to disassemble this any further (for instance to change the axles) because it is very difficult to disassemble and I am afraid I could damage it more.











I believe it is a Roundhouse engine because of the plate with brand name.











Questions:
What can I do best? I am not very skilled in metalworks or steam engines.
I wanted to order replacements parts from Roundhouse but I am not sure what parts I need to order or for reference what kind of locomotive it is (I think a Mr Merlin Pooter?). Somebody have an idea what engine this is?
It is an older one and as mentioned it is spirit fired (no gas). 



Any good advice welcome 
Thanks!
Paul


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Some extra pictures for identification:










(In front of locoshed on my old railway)


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

For starters, have you gone to the Roundhouse web site? Under "history and museum", they list a Charles Pooter built 1984-1900. Superstructure looks a bit different from yours, but the chassis may be the same.
I'd send them an email with what you have posted here.


Larry


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## big-ted (Sep 30, 2012)

Definitely looks like the Mr Merlin's Pooter from the Roundhouse museum pages. Built 1986-1987 as a commission for Tom Cooper. Quite a rare beastie you've got there I imagine.

Uses the chassis, boiler and Hackworth valve gear from the regular Charles Pooter, which itself was long discontinued. 

Since it uses the inclined cylinders for the Hackworth valve gear, I'm not sure if the regular cylinder rebuild kits will fit, but I'm sure the folks at Roundhouse could advise.

Going to be a fun project, for sure!


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Thank you both for your advice. I had not noticed the history & museum pages on the website until you mentioned it (I went straight to the part list...). Now I am sure it is a Mr. Merlin's Pooter (only produced for 1 year, 40 years ago..) that was build on the Charles Pooter chassis.
But indeed, both are long discontinued.

But I will give it a try and will write an email to Roundhouse. Make some more detailed pictures for them also.

Actually I would like to use as many of the original parts (also cost wise). 
Can those cranks be disassembled? If I could get these of the axles I could use the chassis and only have to order wheels, axles and new cranks (I hope, or am I too optimistic than?).
Is it doable to remove those? How does that work?


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## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

The original Pooter chassis (such as this one) used Hackworth valve gear, but did not have inclined cylinders. They only appeared when the gas-fired reincarnation of Pooter was launched under the name Carrie.

As has been said, Roundhouse can no longer supply either version of Hackworth valve gear.

The wheels are held on the axles by Loctite. A bit of heat on them (small blowtorch) will free them off. The cranks, if I remember correctly, are held on by tiny grub screws but, if not, a bit of heat might work.

If you are replacing the axles you will also need new axle bushes as the current design are larger (1/4 inch) than the axles it currently has (3/16 inch). The frames will need to be drilled to take the new bushes, and the bushes pressed in to the frames.

Good luck.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

TonyW said:


> The original Pooter chassis (such as this one) used Hackworth valve gear, but did not have inclined cylinders. They only appeared when the gas-fired reincarnation of Pooter was launched under the name Carrie.
> 
> As has been said, Roundhouse can no longer supply either version of Hackworth valve gear.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply Tony (and I'm sorry for my late answer).
3 of the 4 wheels were indeed held by Loctite I guess, these came loose very easy. But the fourth wheel did not. 

I tried (too) hard to loosen it and that was the moment it went wrong back than: there was some sort piece of metal rod that went through the axle and a part of the wheel itself. I could remove it but the wheel was than still stuck. Using force after heating it up only made the axle bent on the weak spot with the hole in it. The wheel did move a bit but the axle is destroyed 



I made some detail pictures of the wheel and axle today to make the problem more clear. 

[VIEWER ALERT: THESE PICTURES CAN BE SHOCKING FOR EXPERIENCED AND SKILLED STEAM MODELLERS...]














































This is how the "good" axle looks:












The attempts where hard for the cranks also...


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

It only needs another 2 mm. ... and a straight new axle...


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

That crank pin looks quite worn. You will probably need to replace it. I take it that you don't have a lathe or mill to work on this. Do you maybe have a drill press? Also, what is the diameter of the axle? I may have some axle material that would work.


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## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

The pin had been put in because the Loctite had failed. Note too that the wheels are very worn, tapering towards the flange rather than away from it. So much scrap metal.

Good luck with sorting that out but it is nothing (as far as I can see) that new wheels, axles, cranks, bearings, pins, etc., can't fix.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Thanks for the replies again.  Nice picture btw!

Unfortunately I don't have specialized tools or equipment.. The axle is a bit smaller than 5 mm. I guess but I don't have a very good caliper. 

Auwks... that bad? I did not noticed the wheel until you mentioned it Tony.

Actually, my plan was simple: disassemble the locomotive, clean things up and reassemble it again. Mmmm... I guess I have to change my strategy. :-(
Question: as Roundhouse can't supply the same parts anymore I have to use replacement parts that perhaps are bit different in shape and measurement. How does this work for the other parts of the locomotive? (don't know all the exact terms for these parts). What I mean is will these fit on the new replacement parts or is it causing a cascade effect and will I have to replace more and more parts?


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

5mm is .197 in. Looks like the dia might be 3/16 inch (.188 inches) I only have .25 in and 6mm


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

No problem. Thanks for your offer anyway.


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## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

You know, I completely forgot to update this thread! The end of the story goes like this...

Could this be the rarest Roundhouse Engineering loco type...? It was back in 1986 that this model first appeared, but only a very limited number were made. It is a Mr. Merlin's Pooter. I can find very little about these on the internet, with the prime source being Roundhouse's own "History & Museum" page and which includes the only picture I could find of one. 

From the Roundhouse History & Museum page: "Tom Cooper, formerly of Merlin locomotives commissioned Roundhouse to produce locomotives for him when he parted company with Merlin. Tom advertised this under his "Steamlines Models and Publications" banner as Mr. Merlin's Pooter though it was known as Thomas's Tank Engine at the factory. Not many were produced before Tom moved onto fresh pastures and the model was withdrawn early 1987.". 

After a few modifications, including to the boiler steam turrets, it reappeared a year or so later as a very European-looking model called Erica. 

The model uses the standard Charles Pooter chassis with a new body and a one-piece cast smoke box. The meths-fired boiler, in common with other Roundhouse locos of this time, is made of brass.

This one came here in a sorry state and mechanically completely worn out. Both cylinders received full overhauls, all rods were replaced and new wheels, cranks, axles and bearings were fitted. It was then a case of going through the whole thing and correcting the many issues that it had. It is fitted with 2.4GHz radio control on both regulator and reverser.

I took the view that this was a restoration rather than a rebuild and hence the 6BA cheese-head bolts remain on the buffer beams. The paintwork is based on that shown in the Roundhouse museum picture but with the addition of black tank tops and extra lining.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks fantastic. Great job, Tony!


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## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Great work, Tony, I also get great pleasure from doing a rebuild or restoration, my recent restoration I have completed a friend said afterwards he questioned me buying the basket case and did not think I could make much of it.


I had once mentioned on a forum that I had built a RH kit back in 1986 that had a brass boiler and i was told I was mistaken, but I knew it was brass. It is still going strong, no issues. If there was I could just make a new one out of copper anyway.


Steve


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## Ray Cadd (Dec 30, 2008)

Same engine? Wow, that's a fantastic job!


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## TonyW (Jul 5, 2009)

Steve Ciambrone said:


> I had once mentioned on a forum that I had built a RH kit back in 1986 that had a brass boiler and i was told I was mistaken, but I knew it was brass. It is still going strong, no issues. If there was I could just make a new one out of copper anyway.


I also have a Dylan built from a kit around that time and that too has a brass boiler. My suspicion is that the brass used back then was of good quality and it too is still going strong. The only thing I do is to drain the boiler at the end of a run while the loco is still warm.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

That is a fantastic job for a guy who claims to not have tools or skill. Congratulations, it is beautiful.


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