# O transformer with G?



## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Hi all, I'm new to G trains, not new to trains though, kept HO for many years and have an HO and O set now. I just aquired 12 cars a "B" unit new york central and about 60' of track. I've a transformer looking item that's wired to what looks like the wired half of a wireless remote??? Question is, will the O transformer work with the G train?

Thanks very much, Jonathan


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If it is a Lionel the answer is most probably no. Lionel is AC. "G" engines are made for DC. 

Someone with more knowledge may say otherwise, but for now I suggest that you don't use it.


Chuck N


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

i am using 0 gauge Faller transformers and even two H0 transformers (Fleischmann and a no-name) for my G locos. 
the transformators are all stronger, than a starterpack Bachmann transformator. 
(a H0 Lima transformator, i got, does not suffice)


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Used an old Lionel transformer with a bridge with little no problems in the past.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The bridge is the operative word.

My Dad and I ran an HO layout for many years with a Lionel transformer, but it did have a bridge rectifier between the transformer and the track. 


Chuck


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

The model is a lionel power max plus; 








IP:120VAC,60Hz 
OP:18VAC/40W 
P/N:6-24253 

I also have a 10 amp DC power supply ultima ART-5460. It looks as if you hook this thing up to a transformer because it was hooked up to a "Train Engineer walk-around copntrol system ART-5471 receiver (10 amp DC) It's the hand held controler that I'm missing... 










I'm assuming (and you know what happens when you assume) that the DC power supply is just a converter and what I would need is a transformer to work with it... Is that correct? 

Another question: 
How difficult will it be for me to find another "A" unit for this set? (notice the "B" unit in the background) Mama is so happy LOL 



























My sons are very happy with their father at the moment LOL Now they want to know where the engine is... LOL


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Huh, pics didn't work... Oh well... I was just poking around on eBay and saw what looks like are transformers for HO N and G. I have one of those... Should I try that? I'm dying to see if this B unit works...


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

You can use the AC transformer, but you will need a diode bridge to create DC and then a large capacitor to filter the ripple(10,000 microfarad @ 35WVDC), and then a DPDT switch to feed the output to the track if you need the power to reverse the train direction. Of course the output could feed a train engineer or some other controller requiring DC input.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

You need DC power for large scale trains. The polarity on large scale is opposite the rest of the industry, but the only problem that polarity may cause with a DC power supply is that your train will run "backwards" to the setting on the power supply. You will need adequate amperage on your power supply - 1 to 2 amps should be enough for now. Total output is expressed in VA (volt-amps), which is usually the maximum voltage times the amps. So a supply rated at 18VA with 12V maximum output produces about 1.5 amps. I say about because the accessory power supply will take power from the track supply when you are running accessories at the same time (but that is usually only lights in large scale.). 

That said, I have a 175 watt American flyer transformer that I got when I was ten years old (the transformer is 55 years old now). I purchased two solid state rectifiers for that transformer many years ago, and it ran my large scale trains very well. I think Lionel may still offer solid state rectifiers for AC transformers, but the last price I saw for the rectifier was over $40.00. I have since purchased two of the MRC 10 amp power packs for large scale trains, and still keep the American Flyer transformer/rectifiers combination as a backup. You may be able to find an adequate power pack for less than $40.00, or you may already have an adequate power supply on hand. 

Some large scale trains can run on up to 24 volts, but most will run at a reasonable scale speed at 12 volts. 

Hope this helps, 
David Meashey


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

When I first started G I used a old Lionel ZW transformer with a bridge rectifier,
Work fine till I got something better.

Don


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

You could see if you could locate the transmitter for the Aristo system you nave. Then you would be good to and not have to worry modifying the Lionel transformer. Later RJD


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Ok, well I hooked up a small transformer from an HO set and it worked. The powered "B" unit works somewhat... One of the motors is burned out it seems so I took it out and it's now just powered by one truck and the wheels now spin freely on the other truck. My original plan was to take a few of these items up to the hobby shop today but the weather here is not cooperating... Life's what happens when you're making other plans it seems... 

I appreciate all the advice, though some of it is Chinese to me LOL. I'm bidding on a starter set on eBay which should have the transformer that I need. Which leads me to my next question... 

I noticed that the person who had this set before me had to sets of lead wires that were obviously hooked up to the track. I know that with the lionel set you needed to do this if the track was too large. Is it necessary to do that? It seems that in this type of application it wouldn't be necessary...


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Your HO will work with an engine with one motor. If you add smoke and cars with lights you will probably exceed its limit and it will overheat and cut off. If your second motor wasn't burned out your HO power supply would have probably run for a couple of minutes and then overheated.

Aristo used to have a manual train controller that could be used in place of the TE. That might be your least expensive option at the moment. Unfortunately, I couldn't find it in the current Aristo catalog. It may still be available from some dealers. The TE has been out for a number of years. I may be wrong, but I think that Aristo has changed the frequency over that time. If you are ordering the hand held unit you want to make sure that the frequency matches the unit that you have. 


For most layouts with less than 100' of track a single set of leads will work, but additional leads won't hurt.

Chuck 


PS the power supply for most starter sets is minimal, comparable in power out put to the HO transformer you are using. Two motors, lights, smoke etc., will over tax it. Your best bet is to upgrade your 10 amp Aristo power supply.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

To re-enforce the other's statements, I cannot empasize this enough: _do NOT try to run an Aristocraft Train Engineer (TE) off of an AC power transformer like Lionel without a bridge rectifier!!!_ How do I know this (do you really have to ask?) I had an old trackside TE that I tried to connect to my son's Lionel layout to allow remote control and all I did was burn out the unit! _ONE TRY!_ _That's all it took!! _It was useless after that...


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The problem is that it is mandatory that the positive from the power supply be connected to the positive input on the TE. I've fried several fuses on the TE because my direction switch on the power supply was in the wrong position. With an AC Lionel power supply you are cycling from positive to negative 60 times a second on a terminal that is supposed to receive only positive current.

I do not have an Aristo power supply. I was using the TE with a power supply that was also a controller. Therefore polarity from the power supply became critical. I don't think that the Aristo power supply has a polarity (direction) switch.


Chuck


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Do you have to have a certain number of posts in order to post pictures? Here's a link to a picture of the equipment it came with: 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/jstraz/Trains/train4.jpg 

I did not hook up the lionel transformer and I will not. 

After removing the other motor I tried to run it outside of the unit wiring it directly and it still did not turn...


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If you go to the top of the Beginner's Forum there is a thread (limit pictures to 800 pixels) that covers most aspects of posting pictures. Lately, there has been a lot of comments in the thread. Go to the bottom and work your way back up through the most recent posts.


The other way is to become a 1st class member. Then posting pictures is relatively simple.

Chuck


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TheFishGuy on 02 Feb 2011 09:29 AM 
Do you have to have a certain number of posts in order to post pictures? Here's a link to a picture of the equipment it came with: 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/jstraz/Trains/train4.jpg 

I did not hook up the lionel transformer and I will not. 

After removing the other motor I tried to run it outside of the unit wiring it directly and it still did not turn... Fish

The answer to your question is no, you can post pictures after you become a standard member. However, to accomplish the task you'll need to do two things.
[*] Use the HTML editor (i.e. the one accessed via "Add New Topic" and "Add Reply").
[*] You'll have to use the HTML code manually, replace the blue text in the below example image with your URL.









[/list]


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you imagine how many problems would have been avoided if AristoCraft had just put a $2 bridge rectifier in the box connecting to the "power in" terminals? 

I've often thought the same thing about CB radios, radios, and amplifiers for automotive use. When I was still driving trucks, I wired a bridge rectifier into the power leads on my CB since I switched trucks often. Saved me a lot of time not having to figure out which terminal was postive, and hoping they were wired correctly. Not to mention saving a lot of money buying CB's... 

The NCE SB3a doesn't care if you use AC or DC, nor does it care about polarity, so obviously, they thought of that also...

BTW, can't afford DCC? Yeah. I thought that, too. NCE make it affordable, buy a PowerCab, around $150 (Not much more than a G scale powerpack, really...), then when you get the money, buy the SB3a for around $130 to get 5 amps. I wasn't aware it needed a seperate transformer when I bought it, so I didn't get the NCE powerpack, I'm using a 4.9 amp, 18.5 volt laptop power supply I had laying around, and it will easily operate double-head K-27's with a lighted caboose.

As is, with the "1.9 amp" power, the PowerCab would operate one K.

Robert


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Gotta be honest with you Robert, I don't think I understood any of that! LOL 

Isn't there just a transformer that plugs into the wall and hooks up to the track? I took an electricity class in high school thinking it was going to teach me how to wire homes. It didn't, it was all about transistors and such so I didn't pay attention! LOL


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay, any DC power pack with a 2 amp rating and at least 12 volts maximum track power should work for the time being. To attach the wires to the track you will have to clip them to the base of the rails - one wire to each rail. If no rail clips for the wires came with your purchase, you could get some meduim-sized aligator clips from a supplier such as Radio Shack. Most aligator clips have some means to fasten a wire to their back, then you clamp the jaws at the base, or foot, of the rail. Not very elegant, but it should work well enough indoors. 

David Meashey


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## fred j (Jan 12, 2011)

You know,
If you go on Ebay,
You can find a replacement used remote for your
T.E. for about $20.00
Then you would be up and running using what you have already .


Fred


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

If you live in Denver, I'll give you one. I used to have a TE, but gave it to someone, but I couldn't find the remote at the time, and I still have it. 

Robert


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

I discovered the screws underneath the track to attach the leads, but this little power pack I have is a joke LOL.... 

Robert, if you'd be willing to ship it I'd be glad to paypal you the money to ship it. 

Speaking of ebay I was kind of checking this out. I think this would work: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330525731988&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like somebody dug that thing up from their backyard! The seller says its used. No kidding!


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Yeah it looks pretty bad, but for $20..... She says it works great....


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I have one of those, too. It doesn't work. It won't run anything without kicking it's circuit breaker in and out. I'm thinking it's amperage is too low. 

If that remote will work for you, just PM me your address, I can put it in a flat rate box and send it for just a few dollars. I'll have to see if I can find it, though, I KNOW it's in the garage, but I also know that right now it's zero degrees farenheit in my garage. Literally, LOL! 

Robert


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Fish:

You are better off putting the $20 towards a TE remote. You already have a 10 amp power supply. That with the TE will handle everything you are likely to need. At least until you are running 4 diesels and pulling a 100 car train. Large scale trains, other than a starter set running around a Christmas tree, require a lot of power. Some would say a 5 amp power pack is minimal and many would say go for 10 amps or higher. Running an A-B-A with eight lighted streamliners is somewhere between 5 and 10 amps.


I'm not familiar with the ebay power supply, but from the apparent size in the picture it won't be much more powerful than the one coming with the starter set. 


Your starter set power supply will work for bench testing engines and checking wiring on cars.

Chuck 


PS I just read the description on the ebay listing. It has 22VA. That is the maximum of about 1 amp at 22 volts. Not very useful for our trains.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree wholeheartedly with Chuck. Or, just wait a couple of days and you can have mine, it's supposed to get above freezing this weekend, and I should be able to get out there. I bought it for my HO railroad, and I had a friend who had LGB, and I gave him the power pack. But that's been ten years ago, and I haven't seen him in forever, so, hey, it's yours. I'll be mailing out my eBay stuff on Tuesday next week anyway, hopefully. 

Robert


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

I can't send you a pm.. You only accept them from friends LOL Here's my email [email protected] if you'd like to shoot me an email.


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Any luck finding that remote Robert?


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

YES! It will go out either today or tomorrow. Actually, there's two remotes, one says it's an MT-25E, I put batteries in it and the Power light works when you push buttons. It does need a screw. The other is a brand new one that says "Train Engineer" on the front, BUT, I don't have the antenna for it, but I imagine that shouldn't be to hard to find. It's never been used. I'll just shoot you both of them. 

I was right, they were in a box in the garage! 

Robert


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

AWESOME! I seem to be jumping in head first with this G set... Spending all kinds of $$$ LOL I got myself an Alco RS-3 Santa Fe zebra stripe engine off ebay and am buying some track off the guy too... Also got two Santa Fe tri dome tankers from the same era and am thinking about getting a third. And... I'm considering an EMD F3 A/B unit (Santa Fe of course) in the blue and yellow frieght colors AND and a GP-7 Red and Silver. All are from roughly the same era and could easily be seen on the track at the same time! The only odd ball I'm getting is a Mikado (battery powered) to pull around my track cleaning car! LOL 

I think my wife is gonna kill me! LOL (actually she's pretty cool and doesn't care)


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Thank you Robert! I stole the antenna off the other remote you sent and it works great! I've been incredibly busy and this is the first chance I got to come on and thank you.... Sorry for that... My sons and I are very happy! The Sante Fe F3 AB unit came yesterday and the GP-7 and RS-3 (along with some track) are scedualled to arrive today! 

Thank you again! This is a great community!


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm very glad to hear that! I would've never used them anyway, so if you and the young'n's get to play, hey all the more the better! 

And thanks for the email ;-) 

Robert


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

You're welcome, thought you'd like to see that it was indeed working! LOL I just packed everything up this evening... It's going to be in storage for a few months... Need to finish some other projects up first...


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Definitely glad it works. I'd hate to think I destroyed the garage looking for it for nothing... Seriously, I kind of stumbled across them accidentally while destroying the garage looking for something else. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good! 

If you're not ready to build a layout, just do what I do: Keep out a loop of track and a power supply, and set up in the driveway (or living room!) whenever the mood strikes! 

Thanks, Robert


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Well... It's all under our bed.... So I'm sure the mood will strike! I've got finish the basement first, then side my shed, then side the tree house, then grade the back yard, then put in my wifes garden... THEN I will set it up behind my shed! LOL All of those things are projects that have been started but not finished... The story of my life! BUT! I did take time to lay out how I want the track! LOL


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I loved the TE with my HO scale layout, back when I had one in my basement. I thought about buying another one, but then I "discovered" DCC and, um, well I got hooked! 

Thanks! Robert


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

What is DCC?


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

DCC is yet another way to power trains, but it is more complicated that simply putting a DC voltage on the track. You can do a lot more with it and you may want to look into it later. Get used to what you have first. By the time that you want to run two or more trains independently on the same track, DCC is a good way to do it. 

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips5/power_tips.html

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips5/dcc_tips.html


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## TheFishGuy (Feb 1, 2011)

Well.... I'd love to be able to run two trains on one track (or more) and have only one line back to the shed where each train would be parked. 
BUT 

For the moment you are correct, we will be setting up a track that's about 100' incorperating a tunnel and a bridge because no layout is worth having unless you have a tunnel or bridge! LOL


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