# plastic wheels run outdoors?



## Blk69 (Dec 6, 2009)

Got a question regarding plastic wheels. I am running outdoors on brass track (plan on running next spring). Most documentation on this subject states metal wheels only for outdoors. This is due to track melting plastic wheels. 

Have seen quite a few youtube videos of LGB starter sets running outdoors. To my knowledge most LGB starter sets come with plastic wheels on rolling stock. Obviously you can run plastic wheels outside, but for how long and how much damage is being done?

Am I being overly cautious or is plastic ok?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Plastic will run outdoors. Metal wheels perform better over the long term. They are heavier and track better inside or out. Some think that plastic wheels put more crud on the tracks. This may be so because they are softer and the metal rails wear them down. This will happen where ever the track is. As we always say use the largest radius you can for the space. That will minimize the wear and tare on the wheels.


Chuck


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Plastic wheels will pick up a lot of dirt which will eventually lead to derailments. You will have to clean them off more often.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Plastic wheels melt? Where do you get this stuff? 
While not as good as metal wheels mine have run for years here in S Az, maybe they melt where it gets hotter, say up in Phoenix's Valley of the Singed or over in Death Valley. 

They seem to be dirtier, but unless you've got crud on your track to pick up, they don't make it. They of course will wear faster. 

John


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I prefer metal wheels as the cars will be heavier, and less issues when the wind blows. Keeps the center of gravity very low. 
And I like the solid wheels better as these have more weight than the rimmed wheels.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I live in Florida and for a couple years had my layout around the pool. At that time 99% of my rolling stock had plastic wheels. There were no melted wheels on any of my stuff. The only derailments was a single caboose that kept wanting to jump into the pool. As for making the track dirty, I didn't notice any accumulation building up on the rails. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay-YRA-FPp8


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Randy:


Looking at the video, you have very wide curves. I think that a lot of the crud comes from R1 and R2 curves (LGB). There is a lot less friction on larger diameter curves and the flanges don't get ground down. 

Chuck


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, my mainline is made up of 8 foot diameter curved sectional track.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I've been running plastic for over 20 years. I change them when the tread gets worn so bad it's grooved. 
Flatcars get some kind of metal wheels for weight when they are empty. 
I have somewhere an MDC set split right through the axle...from one flange right though to the other. 
I try to avoid Bachmann plastics, as they really wear fast. I have a box of LGB wheels I use for replacements. 
Check back to back first on all wheels. 
I find super glue often does not hold the gauge set. Previous oil may be a prime factor. 
I tend to pull the wheel off and insert thin washers to get the gauge correct.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Different people will have different experiences depending on their layout configuration and the environment or climate it is in. 

When I first started with "G" scale, I setup a brass track oval (4 foot RADIUS at each end) on the living room floor carpet and ran short length trains (all Aristo) around it. Track power is used. At that time all the cars had factory plastic wheels, and I noticed that the rails would have a build up of black material on them. 
Though some of this may result from electrical arcing - but at that time the loco used was an FA unit that draws minimal current - so I must conclude the wheels were responsible, too. 
So if you use track power, dirty rails can be a problem, and avoiding the use of plastic wheels is of benefit - so I use metal wheels, and for other reasons, too, ever since then. 

-Ted


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## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

Due to moving, the two outdoor railways I had in the past were in completely different climates. One was in the wet and cold of Minnesota and the other was in the somewhat drier South Dakota. Dakota did have a higher temp in the summer, so it was dry and warm. Like you, I also used brass track. In both Cases, I would say metal wheels would have performed just as well if not better than the plastic. The problem I had with the plastic wheels was not melting, but rather that the wheels distributed a lot of plastic powder which rubbed off of the wheels and onto the rails. While not a physical problem, it was an electrical problem and I found that the only way I could combat the problem was by cleaning track before every running session. 

I can say that my second railroad in South Dakota ran a lot better, mostly due to the climate it was in, but also due to me putting more time into planning and construction of the right of way. By making sure that each rail had adequate power, that eliminated a lot of my problems. 

So based on the results I had, in my opinion metal wheels are the way to go, but they aren't a necessary thing to have unless you live in a climate that makes plastic wheels give off excessive amounts of the powder I was talking about. Plastic can be used in most cases, but be warned you may need to perform more cleaning sessions. However what really affects a railroads ability to operate is in the track, not in the wheels. 

One other note, if you're running live steam or battery, plastic wheels should be no problem on the railroad since you won't be relying electricity from the rails and so plastic might be a cost saver in these instances. 

I hope that helped. 

--James


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with what James just wrote. Plastic wheels will leave a residue on the rails. It is hard to believe how much the wheels break down and the mess they leave on a loop around the Christmas tree. Living in a area that is subjected to temps from 0 to 100 I have never had a problem with plastic wheels. I have several cars that stay out year round spotted around the RR. I worry more about expensive metal wheels rusting if left outside. It is true that metal wheels lower the center of gravity and reduce rolling resitance so they are a great upgrade from the stock plastic but I wouldn't worry that you have to have them. Get them when you can. 
If you have a shorter RR running plastic wheels will just mean you will need to use your scothbrite pad more often.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The amount of plastic 'scuffed' off a wheel varies according to your Radius/Diameter of track. 

In 1:1 railroading, wheels have a taper with the largest diameter near the flange, as a wheel set goes around a corner the flange moves close to the rail on the outside of the curve and the smaller diameter moves to the rail head on the inside of the curve. The 2 different circumferances make up the difference beteen the two rails length and the wheels roll on the rail. 
On our tighter curves the taper needed to balance out our differences is too great, so we get a 'prototype' look which leads to scuffing of plastic across the rails instead of a smooth roll. 

I have seen videos where the flange never hits the rail, the tapers steer the wheels. Railroads grease some curves but not all, they know where track geometry requires it. Too tight for the taper... grease up. 

There are wheel sets, G ga.,with a ball bearing in a wheel or two to reduce wheel scuff and axle bearing wear. 

John


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

As to plastic wheels melting, it's no so much they outright melt but become relatively soft (or softer given higher temperatures), and consequently, tend to leave a plastic residue on the track rail heads and inboard upper sides of the rails - worse on curves. This becomes an issue for track powered layouts since the residue combined with electrical arcing mixed with whatever oxidized wear particles from the loco wheels and rails along with any organic material more prevalent in an outdoor layout forms an insulating crud. Thus, when cleaning the rails, clean the sides as well as the rail heads since the wheel flanges can pick up the crud from the sides of the rails and redistribute it on the treads and rail heads.


As to metal wheels rusting, not all metal wheels are made of a ferrous material. For example, Aristo metal wheels for the cars (ART-29111 types) are brass or plated brass and do not rust.

-Ted


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