# Friends Requests - what is this - Facebook ??? (Also posted in Website Forum)



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I just got a 'friend' request. No offense,but I don't have time and I value my privacy. I then noticed the new 'activity' log. 

I don't want a list of all my activities posted on my profile page for everyone (or just my friends) to see. 
Shad - you may have noticed that Google just got their knuckles rapped (figuratively speaking) for defaulting everyone to 'follow' - i.e. for invading everyone's privacy without their consent. If you MUST have a social networking option (I haven't a clue why we need one) then default the settings to OFF and let people opt-in. And I want a "nobody sees my activity" option too. Let them search if they want me. 

_P.S. The 'My Settings" option lets you set 'Select profile visibility' to 'everyone' or just 'friends'. _ 
Oh, guess what - the personal message stuff changed to: "The person you are trying to contact only accepts private messages from friends." Looks like you can't send a message to a random member about something of interest.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep I have gotten some of those request and just ignore them. I do not need to be giving out info to every Tom Dick and Harry. I turn them down every time. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Yea, Im not really good with this whole thing either???????? could cost the site a lot of 1st class members which help fund all these upgrades... some times things are better left alone. *But RJ can i be your freind HE HE HE







*


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

The default is to allow only your friends to see your info. The default of private messaging allows only friends to send you messages. That is why choosing 'friends' is important. The current system allows for much more privacy than the old one. I can't figure out why anyone would think that is a bad thing. It gives members control over their privacy by choosing who can see your info by accepting them as 'friends'.. Under the old system, anyone who was registered on the site had access to most of the information you put in the site. (We never gave out email addresses) I think the old adage of 'choose your friends wisely' certainly applies here, but having friends isn't necessarily a bad thing.. 

Also, please don't double post..


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

and just ignore them 

You'll find that everything in your profile is defaulted to "friends only", such as the PM/email system. I went and disabled them all except messages, which I allow from anyone. 
Take a look at this explanation of how it works from Steve The Moderator: *How to set up your new profile*


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't figure out why anyone would think that is a bad thing. 
Shad, 

Go read about the fuss over Google's Buzz. More privacy controls isn't a bad thing - but bad defaults and lack of up-front notice is a bad thing. 

It was never revealed that to send a PM you'd need to be a friend, for example. The old system of sending a PM to anyone was good - they didn't have to reply and they didn't get your email address. 

Everyone can now see my activity [unless that "Journal" that I disabled is actually the activity list ?] 

You've just made everyone learn a complicated set of options if they want to continue the way things were. And you didn't warn them it was coming. A lot of us are retired and don't have time for this - we just want to talk trains. We don't need anymore online friends - we were happy with the ones we had.

_Not a good way to win friends and influence people._


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

The only default that changed with the upgrades I made yesterday was the ability to send private messages. In actuality, even that didn't change, I just stopped circumventing the checks in place to allow it (The new popup message sender that doesn't take you away from the current page required it). Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of control over the defaults. I too would prefer that everyone could send messages to each other. I've been told that more control over defaults is coming soon.

I'm not sure why you would think that allowing friends to see your activity is bad.. The assumption here is that they are your friends, you've allowed them to be your friends, so you're ok with them seeing your data. If not, then they probably shouldn't be your friend no? 


This still doesn't prevent you from talking trains or posting in the forums.. I'm adding features that you can choose to use or not. The forums still work the same way.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Everyone can now see my activity [unless that "Journal" that I disabled is actually the activity list ?] 


Sorry forgot to answer this.. Yes, "Journal" and "Activity" are synonymous....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ya ever hears of Murphy's law. It will bite ya sooner or later. Not this kid. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Shad: THANK YOU[/b] for adding the additional features and capabilities. I am a person who is inundated with emails, and use email as a primary communication mechanism. I cannot leave MLS open all day watching for private messages, and I often need to use the features of my email client over what is available in private messaging.

*THANK YOU *for going to the trouble and expense to give us more options and to put us in control of the options.

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

So lemme get this straight, if I want to PM someone, we have to be friends? 

What is the point, if they are a friend, I most likely already have their e-mail addy and sometimes their phone #? 

So now if I want to send a PM, I have to friend someone, THEN send it? 

Confused......


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

...OK, right after posting that, it appears that anyone can PM anyone by the link below the rank and above post count? 

The activity tracker appears no different than the previous one, other than a bit more spaced out? 

Am I missing something here? 

Thanks again Shad for any input on the changes and for the work as "the man behind the curtain".


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes you are missing something.... click on my "send PM".... 

why is this so difficult to understand? Maybe just explore the menus, they are straightforward... 

Greg


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Spule 4 on 16 Feb 2010 06:27 PM 
So lemme get this straight, if I want to PM someone, we have to be friends? 

What is the point, if they are a friend, I most likely already have their e-mail addy and sometimes their phone #? 

So now if I want to send a PM, I have to friend someone, THEN send it? 

Confused...... 
Consider the following scenarios.. 

1. You are already friends with someone.. You talk regularly on the phone, through email whatever.. You're reading the forums and notice a post that they make.. You want to send a quick comment to them without firing up you email client or picking up the phone. If you've added them as a friend on MLS, you can click on the link to send them a message right there on their post. Same as always. Adding them as a friend just says that you trust them to send you messages, see your info etc..

2. You find out a new member of MLS is from your area. You want to invite him to your next club meeting. You send him a friend request. In that you request, you can include a personal note that says who you are, that you're in his area and want to invite him to you club's meeting.... You're now friends on MLS and can keep in contact here as well as offline.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 16 Feb 2010 03:08 PM 
... 
_P.S. The 'My Settings" option lets you set 'Select profile visibility' to 'everyone' or just 'friends'... _ 





OK...I sure haven't found that option in "My Settings". How did you get to it?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah, OK, for some reason reading the original posts, I thought two people had to be "friends" to send a PM to one another. Greg, I did explore the menus, that is why I asked, it looked easy, but then the posts stated otherwise? 

Thanks Greg and Shad for your input!


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

You are already friends with someone.. You talk regularly on the phone, through email whatever.. You're reading the forums and notice a post that they make.. You want to send a quick comment to them without firing up you email client or picking up the phone. If you've added them as a friend on MLS, you can click on the link to send them a message right there on their post.
Shad, 

You just don't get it. I consider EVERYONE on MLS a 'friend'. You just created a two-tier membership - those I can email if I suddenly get the urge, and those who are aanti-social or haven't read the menus to fix their options. If I see something interesting, I like to be able to fire off a PM saying "how'd you do that", or "that's interesting - why don't you start a new thread". 

If you set the default to "everyone" then it works like the old system, no-one has to make changes and everyone is still friends with everyone else for PM purposes. Anti-social or over-emailled types like Greg (sorry!) can change the option to "friends" and stop me from addressing them. 

I don't consider this change at all user-friendly nor is it in the spirit of a co-operative group of large-scale pals who get together to chat and talk. As I said, you've created two tiers - the insiders (friends) and the outsiders (people I can't send a message to until they have decided I'm a 'friend'.)


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I sure haven't found that option in "My Settings". 
Mike, 

Click on your name in the blue menu bar at the top. (Sign in first to make it appear.) Or click on your name in a thread. In any case, you want to get to your profile page, which has your name top left and a set of new tabs, one of which shows all your activity on the site [which I object to, but that's anothjer story.] 
Top right, slightly below your name and in very small letters, are 3 links: Edit Profile My Account My Settings. Click the 'My Settings' link. This is NOT the link on the ordinary Forum pages next to My Profile. [That's another problem - two different functions with the same name - you listening Shad?] 

The link takes you to the 'Profile Preferences' page, and all the items in the LH column are links to parameters. The top one is active, and says 'select profile visibility', giving you 2 options: everyone or just friends. [Problem 3 - why can't I say "nobody" can see all my activity?]


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 17 Feb 2010 01:03 AM 
Posted By Pete Thornton on 16 Feb 2010 03:08 PM 
... 
_P.S. The 'My Settings" option lets you set 'Select profile visibility' to 'everyone' or just 'friends'... _ 





OK...I sure haven't found that option in "My Settings". How did you get to it? Mike

Check out my reply posted in the following topic (i.e. 11th posted reply).

Track, Trestles, Bridges and Roadbed/Topic: Working on the Railroad, and Check Run[/b]


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Start Rant!!!

OK...in my view...all this "Facebook" capability being put into MyLargeScale.com SUCKS IMHO.

This "Friends" stuff is the CORE security capability that is in the Facebook design...all security there is based on that it seems. The problem is...it's real complicated to figure out how secure you are. Facebook, like MLS, is scanned by the search engines of the world...Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc. The problem is...you can set your Friends stuff up wrong...and end up with your email address, your phone number, your full name, etc. being sucked up by the search engines. Least, that HAS been the problem with the Facebook, MySpace, Twitter accounts in the past...and COULD be a problem on MLS. We don't know.


If you look at what is creeping into MLS via the new forum package, you'll find controls for Notifications (I think those we call PMs), for Albums (photos I think), for Journals (huh?), and something called Social Tools. There's this whole thing about controlling who can receive PMs through setting up a Friends list...well folks, that is exactly how you control whose posts you can see in Facebook...and it's backwards in implementation here. On Facebook, you can PM anyone, but your Friends setting controls whose posts you see. In MLS as best I can determine, the Friends setting determines who can PM you but NOT whose posts you see.

Facebook is forum software with just one forum...the wall. MLS uses a properly engineered forum package that has topics and subtopics. I see NO reason to get all this Facebook capability into MLS. Why? Because it makes ensuring your privacy harder. 


Facebook just did a HUGE restructuring of it's "security" approach because search engines were getting at peoples private information. Now, they added this thing like MLS is getting where you have My Profile, My Settings, and My Account...and in these three pages you need to set stuff right to ensure your privacy. It's simply a huge violation of the KISS principle. To those that understand how Facebook works, it's not so intimidating...but for non-Facebookers, it is NOT straightforward to get right. In fact, when Facebook enabled their "new" security stuff last month, there were hundreds of articles on how folks should set all the settings depending on how they wanted their information protected. It was clearly NOT intuitive.

Then we have those little colored icons all over the place...the ones that do something for Twitter, MySpace, Facebook, Google, StumbleUpon, etc. THOSE are tools that take information on the page you're on and post it to those sites....somewhere. Where, I don't know...nor can I find that out. It's like leaving the back door open when you leave the house IMHO...and I see NO benefit to us.

I'd sure like to see all this Friends stuff eliminated...and replaced with a two controls...one on PMs and one on Profile information. Enable/disable the ability to receive a PM. And, enable/disable the ability for anyone to see your personal Profile information. That's it. The software MLS is using has the spots built in to put the profile information, and some of it is necessary for the site to work. I don't know what is needed...so, I do have my phone number and email address in there. I just do NOT want that available to any search engine...and I'm depending on MLS to protect it. I'm just NOT sure how this Friends stuff adds to my protection...it's too damn complicated.


End Rant....


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

One of the reasons I stay logged out, except for the rare occasion I want to post something. 

One of the things that absolutely PIXXED me OFF was my address. 

All these years, even my GR ad doesn't list my address, and that is ON PURPOSE. 

So, what did I find? 

My full address in my profile. 
I did NOT put it there (and it went "poof" as soon as I found it). 

If it shows up again, that will be the last time I log in here. 

The lack of privacy smacks of LySol. 

I REFUSE to do facebook, or any of those other time wasters. 
I do not have time. 

I do not do "twitter" or any of that crXp. 

The only way I can get "active topics" to work anywhere close to the way it was before is to stay logged out, which I shall do right now. 

This "upgrade" succeeded in "downgrading" my participation. 

All for the best, right?


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

If you set the default to "everyone" then it works like the old system, no-one has to make changes and everyone is still friends with everyone else for PM purposes. Anti-social or over-emailled types like Greg (sorry!) can change the option to "friends" and stop me from addressing them. 

I DO get it.. I believe that I mentioned I have no control over the defaults in the current version. I have been told that will change in an upcoming version. Once I have control of that, I will set the default to allow everyone to send messages unless you specify otherwise.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

My full address in my profile. 
I did NOT put it there (and it went "poof" as soon as I found it). 

I have better things to do than go and look up people's addresses and add them to their profile. If it's there, you provided it in the website at one point or another over the past 10 years. Most likely back when I was mailing out badges and needed the address to get it to you. If you want to delete the info fine.. I don't care. I don't use it without you knowing, (ie to send you something). I don't sell it, I don't allow unauthorized people to access it, and if I am made aware of a problem, I will correct it. The whole point behind this is to give you control over what information you share. (Again, nothing has changed in the past year.) You can rest assured that the defaults of the system are in place to protect your privacy and this topic is doing nothing but making a mountain out of a molehill. 

Once again, the features are there for you to use if you want. If not, ignore them.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Frankly all this discussion about privacy issues on MLS is, IMHO, becoming a bore. If any of you have your undies in a bunch with this situation, you need to get OFF the internet altogether and find something else to occupy your time or play with your trains. In todays society, EVERYTHING you have ever done about home loans or purchased a car, etc. is out there. I wrote a couple of articles for Live Steam Magazine about 25 years ago and those are all on the internet right now. Has absolutely nothing to do with MLS now. I recently did a search about my old unit in Vietnam and lo and behold, there was my name and my unit, my service number, when I served and those I served with. If you want to complain, hit your local state DMV or your bank. The information is out there already. As far as MLS is concerned, I liked the old days here where folks actually used their real names (what a NOVEL approach!) and their true locations. All the folks I have become friends with at MLS, are those I met here many, many years ago, NOT RECENTLY.

If you want to click YOUR icon to connect to the internet, you need to be computer literate and computer saavy. End of my rant. Flame suit in place!

Thanks Shad for what you do here to bring large scale modelers together.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with some of the things Mike said, but not with others. 

Yes, there's several menus and steps to get to the settings... OK, it could be better and less complex, BUT I'd rather have the new controls than not have them. 

I was able to take about 45 seconds to find what I wanted and turned off PMs... GREAT... it's not that big a deal, how often will you change these settings? ... 

I agree I don't need twitter, facebook, etc integration, BUT, first off, this is a commercial package, so unless you really think you can keep living in the stone age, these kinds of features WILL become available on commercial packages. Theses features were added to the package because people wanted them. The world of forums does not revolve around us old farts, and we better get realistic about it. 

Again, I agree I don't need twitter, et. al, but my shorts are not bunched up about it, I just don't use it. 

I do have one piece of advice: If you want your address or other information to be private, then NEVER PUT IT ANYWHERE. PERIOD. If you are expecting a piece of software to keep it private, you are gambling. There's always holes in software. 

I have my name, my city and that is it. Beyond that, I consider my information private and do not put it ANYWHERE on the Internet... I never put my real birthdate.. 

everyone has email, if they need your address or other info, they can request it... 

Regards, Greg


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Hey Shad isn't "ownership" great?????? LOL Regal


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Hey Shad isn't "ownership" great?????? LOL Regal 

Have you ever noticed the quote in my signature? Umm... Yeah..


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By ShadsTrains on 17 Feb 2010 12:45 PM 
My full address in my profile. 
I did NOT put it there (and it went "poof" as soon as I found it). 

I have better things to do than go and look up people's addresses and add them to their profile. If it's there, you provided it in the website at one point or another over the past 10 years. Most likely back when I was mailing out badges and needed the address to get it to you. If you want to delete the info fine.. I don't care. I don't use it without you knowing, (ie to send you something). I don't sell it, I don't allow unauthorized people to access it, and if I am made aware of a problem, I will correct it. The whole point behind this is to give you control over what information you share. (Again, nothing has changed in the past year.) You can rest assured that the defaults of the system are in place to protect your privacy and this topic is doing nothing but making a mountain out of a molehill. 

Once again, the features are there for you to use if you want. If not, ignore them. You have got to be kidding me.
You are serious?

First, I NEVER put my address (or full name, for that matter) on any website forum.
Both of those items were in my "profile".
After the LySol debacle, I learned my lesson (and that was before MLS).

IF you took private information provided for membership badges, or any other purpose, and added it into your database, then published it in my profile, I have a real problem with that.

Seeing that data in a public profile upset me more than a little bit.

But, it is good to know what kind of privacy and security we can expect.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 17 Feb 2010 01:17 PM 
I agree with some of the things Mike said, but not with others. 
...... OK, it could be better and less complex, BUT I'd rather have the new controls than not have them. 

I was able to take about 45 seconds to find what I wanted and turned off PMs... GREAT... it's not that big a deal, how often will you change these settings? ... 

I agree I don't need twitter, facebook, etc integration, BUT, first off, this is a commercial package, so unless you really think you can keep living in the stone age, these kinds of features WILL become available on commercial packages. Theses features were added to the package because people wanted them. The world of forums does not revolve around us old farts, and we better get realistic about it. 

Again, I agree I don't need twitter, et. al, but my shorts are not bunched up about it, I just don't use it. 

I do have one piece of advice: If you want your address or other information to be private, then NEVER PUT IT ANYWHERE. PERIOD. If you are expecting a piece of software to keep it private, you are gambling. There's always holes in software. 

I have my name, my city and that is it. Beyond that, I consider my information private and do not put it ANYWHERE on the Internet... I never put my real birthdate.. 

everyone has email, if they need your address or other info, they can request it... 

Regards, Greg 
As Gary said...I'm really NOT trying to get my shorts all bunched up...but I did I guess. 


As Greg said:

a. "It could be better and less complex"...more KISS. I'm really complaining about the way the security features work...complexity...not the security features.



b. With regard to what you don't use (e.g. Twitter), I don't use it either...but that doesn't mean those little icons aren't posting my stuff out there in those places. I just don't know. I do use Facebook...almost daily...that's my choice and through that medium I learned a lot about the bad things that can happen when security settings get too complex. I'll feel a lot better when Shad is able to control the defaults better...as he said would be in the next update.

c. Greg's dead on regarding putting personal information anywhere...I just took all mine off...I think. 

d. WRT features in a commercial package...I don't know what can be turned on and off. Shad does. I was registering a "complaint" about stuff getting too complicated...especially to protect what little we can protect and still use the internet.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I'd say if you don't want it broad cast then don't add. Like Gregg said. Don't put any thing out there that could be obtained by anyone looking. Later RJD


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

And, I didn't. 
Now, if Shad can show where I did, I'll apologize. 

If he can't, well, you have any idea how much of a BIG DEAL it is when PERSONAL information is accidentally released by corporations? 

You have any idea how REALLY BIG a deal it is if it's done on purpose? 

I have a whole lot of data here, as most businesses do. 

Any idea what would happen if a business released your personal information? 

To run a credit card, you need 4 things, basically. 
If the bad guys come up with the number and code (like, hack a restaurant), all they need is the street number and zip code, and you've been had. 

I personally cannot believe the lackadaisical attitude of some towards privacy and security.


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