# DCC conversion Aristo E8



## achester (Jun 18, 2009)

This is my first post - hopefully I am not asking a redundant question. I have searched for an answer to this question and finding none will post it here. I want to recognize all the knowlegable participants in this forum - there is a breadth and depth of talent that is most helpful to those of us who are just beginning our adventures in DCC.


I have a NCE Powerhouse Pro 10A system.
As a first go around I installed an NCE D408sr decoder into an Aristo SD45 after making the modifications to the main circuit board as recommended by George Schreyer. Having successfully gotten readback on the programming track and control of motor function and lighting, I decided to modify my Aristo E8's for DCC. As I already have Phoenix sound installed I chose the Digitrax DG583AR decoders for their plug and play simplicity. [ It is interesting to note that the Aristo main circuit board has a connector for a voltage regulator, which totally interferes with the accessory wiring harness of the decoder to the point that the decoder does not seat well.] I have gotten this decoder to work and to readback CV's on the programming track. I have gotten control of the motors (both E8's ran backwards natively - fixed with adjustment of CV29), and have built my first consist. So far so good. My problem is that I cannot turn off the headlights with the dedicated headlight button or directly toggling F0. Reversing direction does not extinguish front headlight etc. It seems that the factory values in the decoder should work to merely toggle the lights appropriate to the direction of travel. Posts elsewhere at this site seem to indicate that Aristo's circuit boards may be wired unpredictably and cause some unpredictable problems. So the question becomes is the the programming of the decoder or the circuit board that needs to be fixed. I would appreciate any suggestion in troubleshooting this issue. 


Andy Chester


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's the E8 wiring... 

You may have to rewire how it gets to the socket. A QSI would have been a better choice, I'll double check my QSI runs the lights correctly. I just installed one in my E8B tonight, but of course no headlights on the B unit! 

Watch your Digi, many people have problems with them not handling the current. 

Regards, Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

if the headlights are wired like the Pacific, then the headlights are not directional via DCC as they are essentially wired in parallel. However F0 SHOULD turn them off. Either the decoder function has shorted or there is some other weirdness in the E8 wiring.


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

Greg, aristo makes an e8b? 
Andy, I have used both the 583ar and the QSI decoder in my e8(not at the same time). They both worked fine, so it may be a problem with the wiring in the E8. If you have a second decoder or an aristo engine with plug and play port you might try testing that decoder in it to see if you still have the same problem. 
Bill


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Aristo makes the A's, Rex Ammerman makes the B's from 2 A's.












Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

With the QSI installed in the my E-8 lights work fine can turn on and off and will also go off in reverse. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 06/18/2009 11:16 PM
Aristo makes the A's, Rex Ammerman makes the B's from 2 A's.












Regards, Greg 






*Looks good Greg, Rex does a nice job...now i see i will need a 5th job for some of those, OOOO Thats rite the NYC never had Bunits, but hey its my RR







*


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## Bills (Feb 20, 2008)

Gregg can you post so close ups of the a and B units in the review fourm? they look awsome from here


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Will try this weekend, have guests... all the credit goes to Rex, I just write the check. 

Regards, Greg


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## achester (Jun 18, 2009)

Thanks to all for your replies. Just a bit more info. If I remove the decoder and leave the aristo jumper out as well, the Mars light goes off as does the lower headlight. The number board lights cab lights remain on. This would appear to suggest that the Aristo board is probably working properly and either I end to get my Digitrax board programmed right or it is not behaving correctly. I have CV 49 and CV 50 both at 000. I have made no other adjustments to the lighting settings. I have several other DG583AR decoders that I can try. I can also install this one into a Dash 9 and see if it works in another engine. Any other things I should be trying? 

BTW, the SF B units are really good looking. Would love to have a pair myself. 

Andy Chester


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

We recently did several Aristo conversions to DCC with sound (TrueSound DCC from ZIMO). An to be quite honest, the best and universal way to solve the problem is to either use the plug in limited fashion or rip the entire electronic out and rewire the entire engine. Too much has been put into "automated" mode for DC operation, that I would normally suggest take advantage of 20 functions under DCC and have them individually controllable. But to be fair, there is not much of a difference with LGB or USA either (e.g. the use of a common ground in the head light circuit boards in an LED driven envrionment are a DCC killer - Why? because DCC function outputs connect to ground so the common wire should have been + not minus to provide individual control







) . I think the best was the K27 from Bachmann with its new compelete DCC interface.

But with that said, I have been thinking about this for a long time, the best manufacturers could do for us 

TERMINATE EVERY SINGLE ELEMENT (FRONT LIGHTS, MARS LIGHTS, SMOKE, CABIN LIGHTS, PANTHOGRAPH MOTORS (WERE APPLICABLE), TRACK POWER, MOTOR.....) ON A TERMINAL BLOCK.









That way we can unscrew what we need and connect it the way we want. Because, if you try to find a standard you need to find a common denominator ------ as if that would be possible operate a Swiss engine under the same conditions as a US engine???? I don't think so.(And most poeple on standards boards see only one part of the picture - theirs







)

So going back, if I remember right, you may have even to isolate on the front light circuit board some bulbs, meaning you need to scratch the PCB track to achieve this, then run wires to your decoder and connect the way you want it. If needed I can ask my partner what he did for the E8 preceisly (I am more the Swiss engine type of guy







).


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel. 

What is that you say, terminal blocks would be best? 

Surely you jest? 
After all the self confessed *best???* brain in the DCC business, has spent years trying to convince everyone else that "Plug n Play" is the only way to go. 

......and now we have another point of view that just perhaps might be listened to. 

Bravo.


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## achester (Jun 18, 2009)

Well back to this issue. I have torn into my E8 a bit more. With the Digitrax decoder in place, as before the front simulated Mars light and all other lights remain on despite all attempts to control them with the decoder. The voltage these GOW bulbs use is approx. 6V. The decoder white and blue wires have nearly the full track voltage across them (16V DC) and do respond to F1 control. So the decoder works. Interestingly, the main circuit board has been modified a bit and the trace coming from pin 4 (front lamp control) has been cut. A jumper has been soldered from one of the pins in the sound power socket (which is connected to pin 10 on the DCC socket) and connects to a wire that ultimately goes to the front light circuit board and is designated "S". It is accompanied by two other wires (red and black) which supply the 6VDC to the light board from a voltage regulator. The red wire acts as the common and goes back to the main light switch. I do not know the function of the wire marked S but it appears to head to a small surface mount chip on the lighting board labeled ATTINY13 which seems to be a microcontroller chip used to create the Mars light . Any thoughts on how to get this working with DCC? 

Axel, if you friend has figured this out I would appreciate knowing the way to fix this. 

Andy Chester


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

When looking at the E8, Axel and I decided to rip out the main board and then install the Zimo 690 series unit. This E8 did have some modifications in it already. 

I did reuse the voltage regulator in the E8. 

I rewired many lights to the decoder, but did not set up a mars light. 

I did this at a customers site and did not have access to a lot of parts, but I did get all E8 lights working.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... I just plugged a QSI into my E8's and everything works fine, including the mars light, and of course I have sound and the dual motor startup and shutdown is fun to listen to, you can actually hear each prime motor start separately. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Does the plug and play QSI have independent control of head lights vs side lights, vs marker lights, or are all lights either on or off? 

Is the smoke unit connected to a function key or do you have to use the Aristo on-off switch? 

So what can be controlled will help users select which way to wire an engine, plug and play has its merits for installation ease, but does this control everything separately and what does the end user really want? 

I set up the Zimo for control of the smoke, head lights, side lights, marker lights separately per request of the end user.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The plug and play just controls the headlight, I will check this weekend to see if it turns the other lights on and off. 

I checked my RS-3 yesterday, and besides controlling the front and rear lights (dim to bright) properly, it does also turn them completely off at a stop.. .I think my cab light is burned out from my high track voltage so will have to check. 

If it was my loco, I would have dropped the QSI into the socket, and left the cab and skirt lights on track power. If I wanted separate control of them, I would have bought a $15 FL-4 with 4 lighting outputs. 

But if the user wanted remote control of everything including the smoke unit, and was willing to pay for the extra work, your install is much nicer as an end result. 

Remember I bought a Zimo at the BTS, and will be trying it out soon. I will have to say that it looks great on paper so far! I'm anxious to try out the chuff stuff... .(hey bug Axel about my order for a programmer!!) 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Only thing I found hard to control in the E8 was the cab light as Aristo used a pair of the lights on the front of the cab to light the interior. 
A separate cab light needs to be added and the light form the front needs to be blocked. 

I think it was the marker lights that shine into the cab.


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