# The Revolution Train Engineer



## main131 (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi I am asking for some help from the UK.
I have the Bachmann/Aristo class 66 (pictured) and would like to convert it to battery control and use the new Aristo Revolution to drive it. 
I like the advertised facility of the various sounds and smoke at finger tip and naturally looking to buy the complete package. IE remote, sound card and batteries etc.
As the 'Revolution' still havn't arrived in the UK yet (despite a year of advertising) there is no one at present who can give me pros and cons on what to buy or avoid? For instance Aristo show their Quantum QSI sound card on their web site, but I also hear that Phoenix should also be considered. Also will a 12V battery fit into the engine or will I need to fit one in a seperate support car because of limited space. I am told that I need a min of 15v and the equivilent no. of 1.5 double A's if space is a problem.
I would like to hear from someone who has been there/done it please. Thank you in advance.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I suggest you join the Aristo forum and read what it takes, and experience. 

You CANNOT interface the QSI to the Aristo, the Aristo only interfaces with sound cards that have physical connections for "tirggers" 

So you need a Phoenix P9 or the P5 with the optional trigger board (either way is about the same cost, so go the P9). 

Battery power and what voltage and what capacity is another big subject. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I can relay my experiences thus far with the new TE system:

1. The reciever plugs right in to the aristo board.
2. You need the capacitor board for track power, probably that means you don't need it for battery power.
3. I am using two Phoenix 2K2 sound boards and both work very well with the system. 
4. The smoke unit has to be powered separately, but the 'starter' kit includes the smoke unit board you need. It was easy to install. 
5. Programming was made easy because the manual is written to be easy to follow. 
6. With battery power, I imagine this system is easier to use than with track power, where I have to worry about power pick up. 

As far as recommending an appropriate sized battery goes, I have to defer that to my battery powered bretheren. Likely it will be similar to whatever folks are using for the Aristo dash 9.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I need to correct something, I believe the P5 / P5T combination gives you more trigger inputs, to match the 6 that the TE can handle. 

Regards, Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually the P5 + P5t gives you 8 triggers. 
2 on the P5 and six on the P5T. 
Plus the P5T can read motor voltage for ramping the diesel engine sound up and down.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Rechargable AA batteries are 1.2v, not 1.5v 

15v sounds right unless you want top end speed and are pulling heavy loads, most Aristo's are 18v , I' not sure about your Bachman/Aristo hybrid. 

I made up 2; 7 AA (NiMH) battery packs, in series I get 18.6v , with 6 around 1 there isn't much saving omitting one from each pack and the extra batteries help give a longer run. 

How many motor blocks power that beauty? How much space is inside? What is your operating style, fast and hard charging or easy shunting? Generally we want as many batteries as we can get in, then we go for higher mAh (capacity).... but that is where they hide the extra cost. The mAh number can also affect the charger you can use. 

John


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 16 Jul 2009 09:13 PM 
Rechargable AA batteries are 1.2v, not 1.5v 

...
I made up 2; 7 AA (NiMH) battery packs, in series I get 18.6v , with 6 around 1 there isn't much saving omitting one from each pack and the extra batteries help give a longer run. ...



That extra battery may give you some extra speed, but not a longer run. As you stated, it is the mah that give you the capacity, i.e. run time.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm still a little skeptical about the new Revolution TE. There are a lot of threads on the aristo forum describing difficulties. But then every system can have difficulties, and there are also a lot of threads raving about how good the new system is. I assume it's easy to use, and it seems to have many of the capacities of DCC in a more user friendly form. But it's needlessly hard to deal with sound. With the qsi card you just drop; the card in the slot, connect the speaker, and you have sound and motor control and lights. True, you need to buy the "gwire" card to pick up the DCC signal over the air. But it's cheaper than buying the Phoenix board and there are no wiring hassles. The QSI sound is in some ways much better because it senses motor load and the sounds vary with the load on the motor, not just with speed. 

I just wired up two locos for QSI yesterday, and it was very simple. In my opinion Aristo made a big mistake not incorporating sound in the new unit, but it seems to be selling very well and reviews are good.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Main 131,

The Aristo-Craft Revolution IS available in the UK presently. I suggest you speak with Andrew at Garden Rail Centres near Cheltenham. He has stock and if my past experience in dealing with him is a yardstick you will find him knowledgeable and helpful. 


http://www.gardenrailwaycentres.info/shop/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=27&page=1


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Del, thanks for the correction. 

As I've found out a little mis-information can go a long way.... 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, with PWM output, it's the total battery capacity in watt-hours that gives run time, not just amp hours. PWM circuits normally put out full (input) voltage "pulses". 

To get the same "horsepower" from the motor, a higher voltage pulse can be less "width" (time) than a lower voltage pulse. That's watts. 

Note that the Aristo TE is PWM output. 

So, you should get twice the run time from a 5 amp hour 20 volt pack as from a 5 amp hour 10 volt pack. 

Put another way, if 10 volts ran your loco fast enough, 5 amp hour 10 volt battery pack would give same run time as 2.5 amp hour 20 volt pack. 

One thing to think of, is your lights, etc. No reason to be running higher voltage than is needed to run other devices. 

Volts times amps is watts, it is wattage that does work, volts and amps are BOTH part of the equation, just like in your house, you get 100 watt light bulbs, that's more related to the light output, than what the voltage or current BY THEMSELVES are. 

Regards, Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg - As usual, I have to be corrected by you. Sorry I didn't let you reply first.







But your post is indeed informative for those that care to delve in that far.

I try to keep things simple. Most folks will size their battery pack to a voltage that will produce the fastest speed they need. So, my assumption in my simple minded response is that the duty cycle is near 100% for most of the run time. There are many other factors that will affect run time. These are just approximations.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Del, did not want to correct you just to correct you. I just stated the actual way it works. Please do not take offense. 

For people who want to make battery packs, and their systems do use PWM, they have more flexibility in the voltages and amp hours they can use. I was very careful to qualify about speeds. 

I agree with your basic statement above, but I felt it important to give the whole story, since some people seem to be running very high voltage packs, and in my opinion, it's not always necessary to have a 20v pack. 

For people running less than passenger train speeds, a 14v pack can be a very good choice over an 18 or 20v pack, again in my opinion. 

From an "electrical" standpoint, I believe that a more "correctly" chosen max voltage SHOULD give better throttle control over the range of the controller. 

Would you agree with this last statement? 


Regards, Greg


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