# What's your philosophy?



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

For those out there who kitbash and/or scratchbuild, do you have a favorite philosophy or method?

Some like to follow plans, design things before hand, have everything figured out ahead of time. I see this as doing your thinking and your building separately.

Some like to design on the fly, build parts to fit, solve problems as they crop up. I see this as thinking and building at the same time.


I much prefer the latter aproach. Every time I've tried to design something up front, I end up forgetting things and revert to editing the design on the fly. My father tells me that I'm blessed with an ability to "see" things in my head in 3 dimensions without having to put anything on paper. The down side to this is that I never know for sure how things will turn out until they're done, even when I have a basic idea of where I want to go. The benefit is that I don't let a problem on the last 1% keep me from doing the other 99% of the project.


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

I am most definately of the design and draw first type... I like to know where everything is going to be sourced from, how it will be built and how it will all fit together before even a penny leaves my pocket. I know that I have been "burned" on a couple of occassions by this method -but on the whole I have got it to work to my satisfaction. So, yes I have to agree the planning and the building phase for me are entirely seperate. This allows me to examine the comcept of building a locomotive and accepting or rejecting it on the "to build list". 

regards 

ralph


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Ralph,

I would be curious to know what, if any, models you've rejected as impractical projects.

Another aspect of this subject which I forgot to mention initially is the choice of model. To me, the plan first method seems to work well with a scale modeling project, while the design a s you go methoud would seem to work better with a freelanced model. Of course, there are no black and white delineations, but I'm curious how other people's minds work.


I find that I hesitate to tackle a scale model, because of the need to make everything "perfect", whereas a freelance project just has to be reasonable. You can't tell me my wheels are 2" too large because there is no prototype to compare them to.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm the polar opposite from Ralph, I build by eye, to no or very little plan often using only a photogragh as a guide. A scale is a great cutting edge to me. 

Once I have amassed a certain critical mass of parts I will play with trying diffferent combinations, I like to let the part I have guide me, essentialy letting the parts "tell me" what they want to be. I have worked from plans, my AG Price 16 wheeler and my Class A Climaxes being good examples there, but my Whadahellizits, are pure stream of conscience models, I just do a rough (very rough) sketch and then I let the parts take me where they wanted to go.









Rough sketch










Finish model


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## joe rusz (Jan 3, 2008)

K-Rick, 

I'm usually drawn to a structure by its appearance--in real life or in a photo--or occasionally by plans in a magazine such as Gazette or old issues of Model Railroader. In any case, I don't draw up any of my own plans, but I do build a cardboard mockup to assess size and shape of various elements (for example, roof pitch). In other words, I fiddle with it until it looks right. Then I either trace the dimensions onto sheet styrene or transfer the measurements from cardboard to styrene. Then I start cutting and pasting. My styrene station was freelanced, based on dozens of photos and plans of typical small stations gleaned from magazine articles and real subject photos, while my Riders Crossing store used photos, sketches and measurements of the actual store taken by me on a field trip to its location. My latest quickie project, a wooden gas station, is based on a calendar rendering of a typical, down South gas station. In this case--and because I wanted to use standard-size Grandt line windows, I eyeballed the calendar picture, made a sketch that allowed me to see how the windows fit, then picked some suitable dimensions and made my cardboard mockup. Because the station has a carport out front, I fiddled with that to determine how big it should be and how far it should protrude from the front wall of the station. Finally, I literally traced the dimensions onto the styrene sheet and started cutting. The dang thing would be finished by now (the walls are all cut and covered with Precision Plastic clapboard siding) except that after reading an article in Gazette, I decided to superdetail the siding by gluing individual, distressed planks on top of the existing stamped siding. Which brings me to where I am now, distressing about 200 individual pieces of 0.030 x .250 inch styrene strip. But I got nowhere to go and it's kinda fun.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I do drawings/plans for my scratch built buildings. No plans except for maybe some printed out reference photos for rolling stock. 

-Brian


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Sometimes I find something that reminds me of something I want to build: I found some bookcase shelf brackets/standards that reminded me of steel girders and that reminded be I wanted a bridge so I decided on an arch suspension bridge. I about went nuts trying to find long enough straight rods to use as the suspensoin cables (I didn't think wire would be stretched straight enough to look right). Once I found cheap welding rod it went together quickly. Unfortunately, it also rusted quickly and I am not real pleased with the result.

Sometimes I buy something that "needs" something else to work the way I want: I bought an LGB "Peanuts Football Team rail motorcycle" and since I do not have track power I needed a trailing car to hold batteries. I decided a dog house for Snoopy on a single truck would do. I about went nuts trying to find the appropriate parts to make the dog house on a "parade Float" and then "furnish it" (it has a pool table, a bar [for quaffing rootbeers], an entertainment center and a crystal chandelier inside, with a bar-b-que grill outside). I spent WEEKS looking for things that fit the image in my head of what it was to be, going into stores I had never been to, buying things that I didn't otherwise want or need just to get a small part from it that I could use.

Sometimes I buy something to get just a part for something else I want and the "left overs" prove more useful than the part I thought I wanted: I wanted a chain on my engines for the uncoupling lever. I found a jewelrry package on the floor of the Grocery store that had been stepped on, the earrings were missing but the necklace was intact and looked like a standard loop chain. I bought it for about half price, thinking I could blacken the chain. The chain is 14Karet gold plated and wont blacken... the jewel (Amethyst?, I think) that hung from the chain fit perfectly in the headlight casting on my engine and sparkles beautifully in the sunlight. Fools most people into thinking there is a light in it.

Unfortunately, I have spent (wasted) an awful lot of money buying things that a part of which might become something I want, that are stacked in boxes and boxes of other stuff I will never get around to turning into whatever it was I thought they could become. Often the project hits a wall of, "Need something else that I can't find", and the project is forgotten and never completed.


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

structures and rolling stock: 
sometime a picture, i accidently see, sets me off. sometimes i wish something and look for pics. 
first i make a crude freehand ballpen sketch (sometimes with alterations). if still interested, i make a (still crude) sketch using a ruler and measurements too, or just a scanned copy. 
then i look for usable material in my junk-corners. 
actual building of the basic rawproduct goes quick. 
then i normally put the things aside. 
later (sometimes years later) when the actual layout reaches the stage, where it could use the building or car, i put on the details to fit the location. 

landscaping: 
i normally got a picture of the desired landscape before my inner eyes. 
toying around with avaiable materials, it is shape and smash, untill i have the desired look. 

when a move or boredom dictate a new layout, at breaking down, i salvage those things entirely, that might fit the vision for the next layout. (not necessaryly the best made things) 
from everything else i only save reusable material. 

my latest picture based housefront:


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## ralphbrades (Jan 3, 2008)

Kenneth, 

What I term as an impractical project has to do with this simple fact -"*can I build it?*". The Price 16 wheeler was initially an impractical project. The Klose was impractical until I found the *one* picture of the mechanism that was not subject to "engineering artistry" and thus I could reverse engineer the formulae required to make it work. The EE-1 was always going to be impractical without a lathe and mill, and to be honest -I still have nightmares about getting the wheels to work... 

What I now consider to be *borderline* impractical are : LEADER , the FELL locomotive, and GT3. 

GT3 is starting to become clear, LEADER is still subject to despair (but then so was the original), and the FELL locomotive gearbox is "an extremely unique challenge".... 

regards 

ralph


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## mhutson (Jan 2, 2008)

Korm,
I've had "cold beer" and "meals" in that place several times!

Cheers,
Matt


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## Guest (Oct 7, 2008)

Matt, 
i planned to call it "Elklodge" 
should i think about "Matt's trough"? 
(but with my bad english, i'm afraid, the signs will say "cold meals" and "hot beer")


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Im new at kitbashing and building things. My way of appraoching things is I find a picture of something I like. Then I look for more similiar pictures. Once I have a few in my head I just start building with materials I have around. I try to keep the cost down as much as possible. I was never one for drawing plans. For One I cant draw and two I am terrible with math. It seems whenever I measure something and then cut the wood. It comes to short or too long. Thats why I chose to model a railroad that was planned but never actually built. It allows me to play with things more. Plus I like to term my RR as backwoods. Then nothing has to be perfect. To me backwoods means things were thrown together. They were not ment to be pretty but rather functional.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Philosophy? 

1. Trust God. 
2. Be flexible. 
3. Maintain a sense of humor. 
4. Wear no unnecessary shoes. 

Modeling? 

Being dyslexic, sometimes the drawn plans aren't any more correct than the initial idea in my head


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Fly by the seat of my pants and remember the 10' rule. Jerry


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Kormsen
Love the cardboard, I use foamcore and balsa. We Innies get to cheat soooo badly dont we..


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## Havoc (Jan 2, 2008)

I like to make the plans first and if I could complete. But I found out that making plans roughly, then starting to build and refine the plans while building works better. Live steam without any plans is -for me- imposible.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm kind'a in the same league as *kormsen*. I see a structure I really like and if I think I can find a logical, and photogenic, location on the layout I take pictures, do rough measurements and build a cardboard stand-in. After a few weeks - or months - I can pretty much tell if the outline is going to work in the proposed location. After that I build for effect using characteristic material and colours following the 10 foot rule. Well, indoors - the three foot rule. 
But the reality is there just isn't any more room down here....

Dave


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I like to start with a plan of some kind. But the plan usually starts to degrade because of error on the plans or my inability to measure and cut. The concept I end up following is to start at the bottom, work toward the top and fit one part to the next. One thing I really try to work out is the sequence of construction. It is easy to get out of order and have a real problem down the road.

Great question and great input from everyone

Thanks Bob


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## Bruce Chandler (Jan 2, 2008)

I do a mix. I may make a preliminary plan, a mock-up, or even a detailed drawing, or I may just go right to it. Either way, It seems as if there's always some problems to solve. 

I do find that my time away from a project allows me to think of the next steps. Often, this will help to prevent a future mistake in the assembly sequence.

Right now, I'm doing a building from an old Model Railroader article from 1974. I think this is how I learned to scratch build: the article provides details of construction as well as some great drawings. I use my HO ruler to get the dimensions, and my 1:20 ruler to scale the parts to the right size. 

It's quite fun, because I originally made this model in HO. Seeing it in 1:20 is really neat.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

My grandfather and father could build ANYTHING, and did. Even a 15" gauge locomotive and riding cars. The ONLY time I ever saw them use plans of ANY sort was when they built the turnout for the railroad. That they freehand sketched with soapstone on the garage floor and proceeded to bend and weld the parts to this "template". I grew up thinking this was more or less "normal", even though I'd always heard comments from other people saying how Pap could "half-a$$" stuff together better than others could do it "right" 

I have some castings here for a large (3" bore x 4" stroke) steam engine. But no drawings. Nobody wants to buy it because I don't have those. In fact I may have insulted a couple guys by suggesting that any machinist worth his salt should be able to build it into a running engine based solely upon measuring what is already there and knowing a bit of how other typical engines were made... Seems this kind of building is becoming a lost art. Maybe much like the difference between "mechanics" and "parts changers"?




FWIW almost every time I've tried to build something from someone ELSE'S plans, I managed to make a hash of some critical part.


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## Greg Stevens (Jan 3, 2008)

I am basically of the opinion to build as I go except in the case of buildings. I need a set of plans, no matter how crude they may be, to make a structure. Railcars are no problem for me as long as I have a photo or something to go by. I built a blacksmiths car from a Bachmann flatcar years ago without a single plan. Everything was free hand so to speak. It was good enough to take a first in kitbashing at the QM one year and the next year, there were at least three booths that had knock off's for sale.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I generally work from a set of drawings or photographs of prototype equipment or structures, but that only tells me where the target is and what it's supposed to look like when finished. I rarely plan out anything relative to the process of getting to that point, except to draw on previous experiences and sketch out some ideas along the way. Some work, some don't. But that's part of the fun. 

Later, 

K


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2008)

vsmith, 
We Innies get to cheat soooo badly dont we..

...and while we play or build we don't have to share our drinks with flying insects... 
not visible, i put a piece of plexi behind the cardboard (left over from repairing a gable-window) 

dawinter, 
there just isn't any more room down here....

errr... throw out something? 
(it hurt for a day or two, when i had to break up the last layout. but then the fun of planning a new one took over) 

Mik, 
Seems this kind of building is becoming a lost art.

must have to do with the disapearing of the "one-man-enterprises" in real life too.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

errr... throw out something? 
(it hurt for a day or two, when i had to break up the last layout. but then the fun of planning a new one took over) 



Yes. It comes down to that. 

I'm pulling the club grain elevator (see below) off the layout and storing it in the garage. 










That way I can finally find a little room to build my dads old B/A service station. That tow truck over at the other side of the basement had to come from somewhere. I'm doing photo research on this project now as there are nothing but a few 'family photos' in an album and they were never intended as building detail shots. Note the top of a cardboard 'test' building. 

Although I have a good aerial photo of the garage at... 

http://www.fortquappelle.com/hist_pic.html 

That will give me the shape I remember from when I was about 7 years old. 

Should be a great little project.


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## Guest (Oct 8, 2008)

dawinter, 
on the place your grainelevator occupies, i could build half a mainstreet. my philosophy is, to make the buildings a little on the smallish side. 
Note the top of a cardboard 'test' building.

what i note much more, are your really flat backgroundbuildings.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

There are a couple of much better photos of that backdrop building kit at... 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...rumid/17/postid/28452/view/topic/Default.aspx 

Just to reiterate; The pictures are very good and the size is perfect. I've had a lot of people over here since I installed them and everyone is impressed with the excellent detail. We're even using them as a clamp-on backdrop for the G scale modules we take to shows. Highly recommended. 

Dave


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"Fly by the seat of my pants and remember the 10' rule. Jerry"

I'm kind of like Jerry. I like to do whimsical projects, so I don't even have a prototype to measure. Sometimes things like 1 liter soda bottles get pressed into service.










Sometimes a wayside tool shed ends up getting an entirely different use.










Sometimes a standard freight car gets a new use and a strange companion.











One of my future projects will be to build some freight cars for my "Lord of the Rings" railroad, the Brandywine & Gondor Railroad. What kind of car would hobbits build to ship Longbottom Leaf? Well, it most likely will have a round door, so I guess I will have to devise a way for the door to roll along the door guides instead of sliding. Hobbits don't like high places, so the brake wheel will have to be on an end platform, and the roof catwalk will have to have railings on both sides.

"What if" can be fun, but one has to imagine how the user would design from his/her own point of view.

Just some of my own crazy ideas.

Yours,
David Meashey
Roanoke, VA


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2008)

"Lord of the Rings" railroad

i love that idea! 
don't forget, that a hobbit railroad NEEDS a kitchen and dining compartment in every caboose. 
what shape would the shipping crates for longleaf have? 
i am just afraid, that a hobbit-railroad has one disadvantage... it might be built mostly in tunnels....


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 10/07/2008 4:57 PM

... I may have insulted a couple guys by suggesting that any machinist worth his salt should be able to build it into a running engine based solely upon measuring what is already there and knowing a bit of how other typical engines were made... Seems this kind of building is becoming a lost art. Maybe much like the difference between "mechanics" and "parts changers"?



Mik,

I happened across your post by accident. It stung. (Not me, you're more right than you think). My father, being of the Depression Generation, built everything before he'd part with $$. I learned it from him.

I was a machinist. Actually, a tool & die maker. And maybe someday I'll build a small model stationary steam engine and run it on compressed air. I assure you, re your castings, that you'll have to locate a 'real machinist' instead of the 'machine operators' they have today, who run computer-controlled machines.

You are right on the money: a 'machinist' should be able to take the measurements of what's there, and if he's no mathematical type, it's possible to ask for help from guys who do live steam, or search the web and do some reverse engineering. Keep looking, you'll find a competent buyer, eventually. And yes, that kind of building IS becoming a lost art.

I skim thru the 'tools' forum and am constantly amazed at the simple questions: "What kind of table saw should I buy?" A cheap one, along with a book on using a table saw, and teach yourself. A good deal of what I know I learned that way. "Can I cut metal on a wood saw?" No, that's why they make metal saws. "But I can put the money into trains that I'd spend on a power tool!" Yes, you can. And you'll always be a capitive of the hobby store.

I apologize if this turned into a rant. I hope you sell your castings for a fat profit.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dave,

That's a great idea (the party flat w. the trailing crapper). Do you mind if I steal the idea?

Les


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

kormsen;


Longbottom Leaf, pipeweed, or tobacco (as we call it in Regular Earth) is shipped in barrels about the size of a railroad spike keg. At least both the books and the movies seem to agree on that. I'm on my 14th read through the books. Have not kept count of how many times I've watched my DVDs.


Hobbits would not run their rails through tunnels unless they had to, as with any other railroad. As J. R. R.Tolkein wrote, only the poorest and wealthiest hobbits lived underground, but they all traveled out in the open.


Les;
Feel free to copy the idea. The _tappa kegga dei _fraturnity's excursion car took a blue ribbon for whimsical passenger stock at the 1997 national garden railroad convention. I added the outhouse on wheels later. At present both cars are equipped with Kadee couplers, and still amuse the public when our local club participates in a train show.

Yours,
David Meashey
Roanoke, VA


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## Guest (Oct 11, 2008)

Dave, 
reading your words, i remember. so if it is transported in round kegs, they can be loaded through round box-(or barrel-)car doors. 
I'm on my 14th read through the books.

i haven't found time to reread tolkien since i own a time saving computer.


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