# Rebuilding Aristocraft FA Motor Bricks



## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Hi guys I have some questions on rebuilding my FA motor bricks. 

The reason I decided to rebuild was because it takes me moving the throttle to 50% before the locos begin to move and they surge or hop at slower speeds. So I took them all apart to lube and inspect for damage following the advice I got from this website: http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/brick_fix.html and I found nothing out of the ordinary. I lubed it al up following the advice they gave then put it all back together. Well they still surge. Even with the brick off of the loco running on my desk it surges. The only thing I didn't lube was the commutator because I couldn't find the correct lube for it locally. I will have to wait for that to come in. Do the adjustment screws have anything to do with this lash? I tired playing around with it to make it stop but it had no effect so I just put them back where they were originally. Another problem I was having with them was that they were causing my MRC power supply to overheat. I am assuming this is from bad motors pulling too many amps. 

Does anyone have any other pictorial diagrams for lubing these motor blocks?

I also read Gregs page on lube and I am going to purchase the master lube kit from Aero Car to rebuild these motors correctly and with the right stuff. Any tips, heads ups or just pictures of someone else who has done this before would be a huge help. Thanks


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I'd bet dollars it isn't lube. Nor commutators. 
Running light on the bench, not the lead screws. 
I would imagine, being as I am not sure the vintage, you may have square axle gears or at least badly out of round. 
If so, see if you can find Ron Wenger. I remember him commenting some time ago about having a bunch of spare, new gears...but they never went bad on Aristo. 
Chuck the wheels/axles/gears alone in the sideframes, roll and watch. 
Set up a bar to see if the gear hits in one or more places, lock the bar, rotate 180, check clearance.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I have one set of B&O ABA's and one set of NYC ABA's. The B&O's are REA and have a ton of runtime on them. I don't have too much of a problem out of them. The NYC set is old too but has only a few minutes of runtime on them. One of the boxes actually still says REA before it was Aristocraft. So these units have to be atleast 20 yrs old. 

When I hold the motor block from the NYC unit and run it, the wheels look like they are bent inwards. Kind of like a wagon that someone put too much weight on and the axle bent and now when it rolls the wheels wobble in and out, in and out........

I could post a video if the might help so you all can see the exact motion I am talking about. Would this cause the big amp draw on the power supply?

I wish I could upgrade but there are no new motor blocks to be found. only a few on ebay but for $100!

I am not sure what you mean by square gears?


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

is this a new problem or has this been this way cents new? 
Dick


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Posted By navihawk on 21 Nov 2013 06:20 PM 
I have one set of B&O ABA's and one set of NYC ABA's. The B&O's are REA and have a ton of runtime on them. I don't have too much of a problem out of them. The NYC set is old too but has only a few minutes of runtime on them. One of the boxes actually still says REA before it was Aristocraft. So these units have to be atleast 20 yrs old. 

When I hold the motor block from the NYC unit and run it, the wheels look like they are bent inwards. Kind of like a wagon that someone put too much weight on and the axle bent and now when it rolls the wheels wobble in and out, in and out........

I could post a video if the might help so you all can see the exact motion I am talking about. Would this cause the big amp draw on the power supply?

I wish I could upgrade but there are no new motor blocks to be found. only a few on ebay but for $100!

I am not sure what you mean by square gears?

These are the old blocks. The gears are the same as USA gears. If the gear has failed, as in the sleeve cracked, the wheels will wobble, the gears will jump up and down, tight and loose mesh on the worm.
Square gears would be a poor quality (Aristo, poor quality? Never happens...) and not fully round and true.
Take the axle out completely. Clean the gear hub sleeve, inspect with a light and loupe for cracks.
If your wheels wobble, and the loco jumps around, unless you have bent the axles, the issue is most likely in the plastic gear in the middle.
Pull the wheel and axle straight out. Should be knurled on the end. Find new gears.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I will check the axle's for true straight condition. 

I would also like to add that I tested the motor block with the top brick sleeve off but securely holding the motor in place. I watched the worm gear interact with the wheel gear but I didn't see the gears jumping around at all. What it looked like to me was a surge from the electric motor. It seemed like the motor surge was causing the hopping around. When I say hopping around I mean when it was running on the tracks it would speed up for maybe 90 degrees of wheel rotation and then slow down again, repeating this action over and over makes the loco look like it is hopping. 

However, I still have the problem of bent axles which I will look into today. I will upload some pics and a video for you guys to get a better idea of what I am seeing.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

The axles.....you'd have had to drop it on concrete to bend them, and then there would be other far more noticeable damage. 
Has to be the gears. 
Get it apart and roll the assembly in the sideframes.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Just a ? can the outer bushings be worn out? 

Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Pulled the axles and rolled them on my stainless steel workbench. They are pretty straight with just barely a wobble which is significantly less that what it was doing when inside the brick. I put together that brick and ran it but the thing was still surging no matter how good it was lubed up so I re assembled it and went for the other brick. Man was it bad. The bushings in the side frames were corroded onto the wheels. Now that I have located this issue I think the surge was electrical all along due to the heavy drag from these corroded bushings in the side frames of the FWD truck. I will report back once I get this brick re assembled and put back in the loco. 

I think this will solve the problem but I took some pics and vids of the gears running anyway. I'll post them later for you guys to look at.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Well I removed the corroded bushings from the wheels and lubed everything up once more. I threw it all back together but the electric motor is still surging. If you listen carefully in this video you can hear it. I don't know if this is normal to run like this with no load but maybe it will be better once I get it on the tracks. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYEsv-ocreE


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

It looks as though the worm gear is worn.











-Ted


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Ted I see exactly what you see and that looks crazy! However that was just excess grease on the far ends of the worm gear that wasn't worn off due to not coming into contact with the wheel gear. 

I am just going to put it back together and see what happens but before I do that I want to lube up the side frame bushings so they do not become locked up like they were earlier. Is there some kind of electrical conductive lube that you guys use in these side frame bushings?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted, 
It is not that unusual for worm gears to be hour-glass shape, so more of the thread is in the spur gear teeth. (But I don't have my brick handy, so I can't confirm if the Aristo ones use a tapered gear.) 

The 'surging' you describe sounds like something is binding as the gears/wheels rotate. As you mention it happens every revolution of the wheels, I would suspect the bearings or the axle gear is out-of-round. It wouldn't take much for it to bind every revolution.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

That is so weird for the gears to be worn or out of round. This engine in particular has Zero run time on it except for the few minutes I just have put on it this week. It was used as a display in my dads office. It sat there in a glass case since the early 90's until now. Was it common for Aristo engines from this era to have defects? I know this thing is old but my dad bought it brand new when I was in high school and stuck all of these engines in glass cases and never ran any of them until now.

If the surge doesn't go away, is there a place I can purchase replacement gears for it? I just checked aristo's website but it looks like they are almost done with everything. Too bad I just decided to play with these trains when aristo decided to go out of business.

Also what do you guys recommend for side frame lube? I know it has to be electrically conductive.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Hello 
first if this as old as you say and has just sat on tracks all of its life i could see the axles bending in side the gears and you can see the wobble in you video. 
if this is the same gear as USA GP38 you could get a gear from them ,only come with axles but you can pull them off and change. the next thing is to check just the motor along
pull so you can hook up just a 1 1/2 volt battery to it and watch it ,they have battery holders at radio shack. 
Dick


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Try using a couple of jumper wires from rail to motor, lift engine off rails and run, does it still surge? if so motor could be at fault. If not then surge comes from rail to motor circuitry. 
Aristo made a Conductive grease that actually was somewhat conductive. Most such greases try adding metal bits and results are iffy. If all the bits line up you get some... 

John


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

I think it's been mentioned already, but I would suspect a split gear given the behaviour shown on the youtube clip and given that this has supposedly had no runtime. The effect on running is the same, it acts as if the gear is out of round and causes binding. Old models can suffer from this even when left unused. 

It's well known with certain manufacturers of small scale models - I've had to replace split gears on N scale locos that have sat as unused "shelf queens".


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

From other sources the Split Gear is most likely caused by omitting a chemical that helps plastic keep it's shape. 
Word is this Gear plastic shrinks with time while the steel axle doesn't give, the gear does. 

So clever; buy more cheap toys.....


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 23 Nov 2013 11:00 AM 
Try using a couple of jumper wires from rail to motor, lift engine off rails and run, does it still surge? if so motor could be at fault. If not then surge comes from rail to motor circuitry. 
Aristo made a Conductive grease that actually was somewhat conductive. Most such greases try adding metal bits and results are iffy. If all the bits line up you get some... 

John 

John, it looks to me like he has the motor block all by itself with power jumpers.










To further isolate the problem, I suggest removing one axle at a time, run the motor with the remaining axle, then see how this affects the surging.

As to conductive grease, most are in the meg-ohm range, like Aristo's Electrolube grease. 
In addition to lubrication, the grease is used to help prevent oxidation, thus promoting electrical conductivity.

Be forewarned that Aristo's Electolube will attack / damage some plastics and that is why Aristo changed to nylon for the rolling stock side frames used on the car trucks. The gears in the motor blocks seem to be nylon, so that grease may be OK to use.

That said, there are are very expensive much better conductive greases that can include silver or gold. 

-Ted


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks Ted


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Ted. 
Just to be a bit picky. 
The gear on the end of the motor shaft is the *worm*. 
It drives the *worm gear* which in this case is on the axle. 
LGB often have the worm gear as part of a spur gear which then drives another spur gear on the axle.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

first if this as old as you say and has just sat on tracks all of its life i could see the axles bending in side the gears and you can see the wobble in you video. 
I'm with Dick on this one. Try removing an axle and see if it goes away. Then put it back and try the other one. 

My recollection is that these are 'split axles' - the two halves fit in a plastic sleeve designed to insulate them from each other. They are tough to get accurately mounted at 90 deg. 

FYI - Dave Queener at Cumberland Model Engineering ( http://www.cumberlandmodelengineering.com/ ) fitted some larger wheels to one of my bricks using his 40" (1:20 scale) wheels. It took some work, but he may have a solution to your problem, like an axle and gear. Try emailing him.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 23 Nov 2013 02:50 PM 
Ted. 
Just to be a bit picky. 
The gear on the end of the motor shaft is the *worm*. 
It drives the *worm gear* which in this case is on the axle. 
LGB often have the worm gear as part of a spur gear which then drives another spur gear on the axle.

Thank you Tony, I stand corrected.

Now to use the correct wording with this thread, I compared a USA Trains GP38 axle worm gear with that of a Aristo RDC-1 axle worm gear. I did not compare the motor shaft worms.
[The RDC uses the same motor blocks as the other Aristo 2 axle trucks (except GP 40 & one of their small switchers)].
The USA Trains axle worm gear has teeth with a similar pitch but it is larger in diameter than the Aristo axle worm gear by approximately 10%, so you cannot readily use it as a replacement.

-Ted


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

With all of this being said, I think a full disassembly is in order. I'll clean off all of the grease and examine each axle and plastic gear. Specifically I will be looking for signs of cracks. In the meantime are there any substitutes to the Aristocraft electro lube that I can purchase locally without having to wait? I have some that are ready to roll and I want to lube the side frame bushings before I mess anything up.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Yes,

See Greg E. topic on "*Lubrication*".

-Ted


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

USAtrains sells a conductive lub. Part Number: R50002 i have never used this but USA says to use in there side frame bushings are about the same. 
the online dealers have it. again i have never used so just a other op-shin. 

Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Ok so I have a few questions now that I received my lube kit from Aero-Car lubricants. First is this where I put one drop of ACT 2112?


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Is this the spot where I can use the Conducta lube from Aero Car (ACT-3753)?


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

My next question is regarding the screw at the ends of each truck. See the picture link below. The problem I see ( if I understand how this screw works correctly ) is that it should just barely touch the end of the worm gear. But if you look at this screw it is too short to even protrude through the other side. Is this a mistake or am I missing something?


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

first can not see any of your pics. the links are no good. your last ? sounds like you lost the small steel ball that goes on the end of the screw. can not see your 2nd pic. do not know what your looking at. but the conducta lube goes on end of axles. 

Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Hey Dick, 


Sorry about the pics. I added them to my profile but I am not sure how to post them in the forum.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

it looks like you have them in photobucket so all you do is copy and paste HTML code. 
Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Yes I did that but it wasn't showing up in the forum correctly so I just posted the bare link. I will retry with firefox. For some reason IE 9 doesn't allow the link button or img button to show up. 

EDIT: Pics are fixed. All of the forum functions show up in firefox but not in IE 9. I was trying to use standard IMG codes in here but it looks like that doesn't work here. Either way they are up now.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Dick413 on 05 Dec 2013 08:06 PM 
sounds like you lost the small steel ball that goes on the end of the screw.

Dick
So based off of my picture its missing. This is exactly how it came apart. This unit must have been messed with before we purchased it all that time ago. The more I look into this loco the more weird stuff I find. Do you guys know of any place that sells parts for it besides Aristo??


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I also wanted to hit the commutator with some of this conducta lube (ACT-3753). Is the access hole in the motor case where I would access it from?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

It is my understanding that it is not a good idea to lube the commutator as it can lead to shorts between metal faces. The oil collects metal bits and bridges the gaps. 

Short screw... some where I saw a pic similar and ball bearings were inserted before the screw and the screw was adjusted to push the ball bearing out for contact. 

yes to the electro lube on axle bearing surfaces 

I'd say 1/2 a drop on the outside of the shaft bearing and No there is nothing to lube inside. 

John


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Never lubricate the commutator inside a motor.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 05 Dec 2013 10:00 PM 
Short screw... some where I saw a pic similar and ball bearings were inserted before the screw and the screw was adjusted to push the ball bearing out for contact. 

John 
I am not sure if I understand your response, are you saying there is supposed to be a ball bearing inserted through the screw hole and the screw is indeed too short?? Do you have any photos of a disassembled brick showing what is missing? Or does anyone have access to a parts breakdown sheet I can look over? I wonder if the missing hardware is what is causing my herky jerky operation from the beginning? 


I lubed up the wheel bearing journals on the side frames and it made a 10,000 % increase in rolling efficiency.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

no the screw is not short and yes there is a ball bearing in the black tube. but it's not going to do you any good because the end of the motor shaft is suppose to go into the tube also but yours is gone. 
don't know if some body changed the motor or it came from fac. this way. Are both your blocks this way? 
Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Yes Both blocks are identical. These trains were purchased a very long time ago brand new and sat in a display case until now. They had zero run time on them until I pulled them from the cases. Some people on the forum have mentioned that maybe someone bought them before me, messed with them and then returned them to to the store. Then we bought them unknowingly that it had been tampered with thinking they were brand new.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Does anyone have a part breakdown diagram for this model motor brick? I have been searching but can't find my model. I found diagrams for the updated motor bricks but not mine. I want to see a picture or breakdown of what I am actually missing.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

navihawk 
don't worry i did some digging and found out you have a 2nd gen motor block i was going by what i have witch is a first gen. just put the screws back in and don't worry the screw is just a plug now. 
Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Ok. That's good to know. Unfortunately I re-assembled all of it after lubing everything up and it is still running like crap. Without the side frames attached, it just surges like it did before, even with the new lubes added to it. Both blocks act the same. 

When I attach the side frames it runs like it is binding up and creates a huge amp draw. I have no clue what this thing is doing. I have taken it apart and carefully re assembled it so many times following the tips and instructions I got from the website I posted in my OP. 

Since both motor blocks are affected, is there anyway that something on the circuit boards could be bad? Maybe a leaky capacitor or some fried resistors?


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Guessing no one else has any ideas?


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

start from scratch unhook each motor block feed one block and see if it surges. then do the other block . do not feed through the circuit board if they surge, its not the board. 

Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

disassembled down to just the motor, ran it and both are still surging. Is it worth a shot to hit it with comm juice since they seem to be un repairable anyway?


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## williss (Jun 13, 2008)

it's worth a try, we used to use com drops in balky/eratic r/c car and truck brushed motors.
Willis.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

before you do that get some electrical cleaner spray inside the motor and the brushes and commentator than try comm juice. i did do this to one motor and it helped polish the commentator . i cleaned again after. 
good to know its not the main board 

Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

OK. I have some CFC Free contact cleaner I can shoot in there and then I will hit it with some commutator lube. I also just realized that I have another FA-1 unit that does the exact same thing even after lubing up the side frame journals, motor bearings and worm gear assembly. Posted below is a link to the video showing the jerkiness until it hits 3/4 throttle.

YouTube Link to show jerkiness at lower speeds up to 3/4 throttle


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

? are you still hooked to the gear box? 

Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I've also noticed that there is a common denominator between the two motors that surge. They are the type that are hard wired to the circuit board or have no disconnection plug on them. Dick you said it was a second generation motor earlier when I was asking about the lash screw. Does anyone know of specific problems like this?


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Dick413 on 15 Dec 2013 08:29 AM 
? are you still hooked to the gear box? 

Dick 
Not sure what you mean here? Both motors were running and power was being transmitted to both wheels in each brick when this video was taken. So if I understand you correctly, yes all four sets of wheels were receiving power during this video.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Posted By navihawk on 14 Dec 2013 01:21 PM 
disassembled down to just the motor, ran it and both are still surging. Is it worth a shot to hit it with comm juice since they seem to be un repairable anyway? 
this is what i was referring too, you need to unhook the motor from the main board and then see if it surges. in your video it only takes one bad motor block to make it surge like that.
when i asked about gear box that is the black box at end of motor turn motor by hand see if any binding. they have been know to bind up also.
Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Dick413 on 15 Dec 2013 10:59 AM 
Posted By navihawk on 14 Dec 2013 01:21 PM 
disassembled down to just the motor, ran it and both are still surging. Is it worth a shot to hit it with comm juice since they seem to be un repairable anyway? 
this is what i was referring too, you need to unhook the motor from the main board and then see if it surges. in your video it only takes one bad motor block to make it surge like that.
when i asked about gear box that is the black box at end of motor turn motor by hand see if any binding. they have been know to bind up also.
Dick 

Yes the motors were tested with both gears detached and they all surged. I am disassembling the B&O FA unit that I just realized is surging too. I will clean it out with contact cleaner, comm juice it then lube up everything else and see if that made a difference.


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## Daydoo (Jan 6, 2010)

I was able to correct a problem with an old Aristo engine that sounds like what you describe. I noticed a surging at slow speed that correlated with one revolution of the wheels. Lubing, cleaning, etc. had no impact on it, and it was clearly not associated with the electrical pickups or feeds to the brick. With one brick removed from the engine I noticed that the axles appeared to be very slightly out of true, as though they might be a tiny bit bent in the middle, causing the wheels to wobble on each revolution. With the bricks partially disassembled and turning the worm by hand, I noticed that it would always bind when a specific spot on the gear driven by the worm came around. Attempting to bend the axles into true seemed impossible, so I focused on adjusting the gear driven by the worm. I used emory paper to deepen the grooves on that gear right at the section where it was binding every time it came around. It took several attempts, with reassembly of the whole brick for testing followed by disassembly and futher sanding. I could tell that I was making progress, and after 8 or 10 attempts the thing now runs pretty well. It is still not as smooth as my aristo engines with the newer model bricks, but at least it runs adquately at slow speed with only a trace of the former hitching motion.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Daydoo on 16 Dec 2013 12:43 PM
I was able to correct a problem with an old Aristo engine that sounds like what you describe. I noticed a surging at slow speed that correlated with one revolution of the wheels. Lubing, cleaning, etc. had no impact on it, and it was clearly not associated with the electrical pickups or feeds to the brick. With one brick removed from the engine I noticed that the axles appeared to be very slightly out of true, as though they might be a tiny bit bent in the middle, causing the wheels to wobble on each revolution. With the bricks partially disassembled and turning the worm by hand, I noticed that it would always bind when a specific spot on the gear driven by the worm came around. Attempting to bend the axles into true seemed impossible, so I focused on adjusting the gear driven by the worm. I used emory paper to deepen the grooves on that gear right at the section where it was binding every time it came around. It took several attempts, with reassembly of the whole brick for testing followed by disassembly and futher sanding. I could tell that I was making progress, and after 8 or 10 attempts the thing now runs pretty well. It is still not as smooth as my aristo engines with the newer model bricks, but at least it runs adquately at slow speed with only a trace of the former hitching motion. 

I noticed mine being very very slightly bent also but I just re assembled it and put it back on the shelf for now because I have spent so much time with it getting me no where. I really have no time to mess with it again but its driving me nuts that it jerks like this and I WANT IT TO RUN SMOOTHLY so I am probably going to disassemble it again tonight and look into what you just explained!!!! Thank you for chiming in. I have been hoping someone here had a magic bullet and for now this is all I've got so I am going to run with it. I'll report back what I come up with.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

navihawk 
daydoo tip is not going to help you because you said with the motor unhooked from gear box, that the motor alone surged. what happened when you put a drop on the armature face? 

Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Yes you are correct. It won't help me. I haven't had time to dive back into it yet. Holidays and life are getting in the way. I'll report back when I try the commutator juice.


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## Daydoo (Jan 6, 2010)

If the motor runs erratically when not even connected to the gears, your problem is clearly not caused by binding gears. Good luck with it.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Daydoo on 18 Dec 2013 10:07 AM 
If the motor runs erratically when not even connected to the gears, your problem is clearly not caused by binding gears. Good luck with it. 
Yeah I was getting ahead of myself and looking for any advice that might solve this problem. Your advice sounded so good and logical, that I totally forgot about the troubleshooting I had already done. 


So here is an update. I have cleaned the motors with CFC Free contact cleaner and put both bricks back together. They run much better and don't produce the surging motion that they did earlier. However, when I attach the side frames to the bicks I notice a huge slowdown. I have even attached a sideframe to the brick as it was running while in my hand and just attaching the sideframe gives a noticeable slowdown. 

Both of the pins that extend from the wheels have plenty of electro lube on them and so do the receiving bushings in the sideframes. I am wondering if the wheel wobble I am getting from the brick is causing binding due to the rotational deviation of the pins from the wheel wobble once I attach the sideframes?

Does any of this make sense? I can get a video of it if that will help.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I also checked the amp draw with everything re assembled and side frames installed. I am measuring through the circuit where both motors get power and I am measuring about 1.1 amps. That seems pressty high. I took another one of my FA units and measured the same way and only got 0.72 amps.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

With everything installed, are you able to compress the side frame springs when pushing down on the loco? 
The older versions of motor blocks allowed this. However, the newer versions are rigid mounted, and you can't compress the springs. 
So since you have axes with tips that extend into the side frames, and if using new version side frames that are rigid mounted (perhaps mixed up versions of parts), then it's understandable any kind of wheel wobble and / or part tolerance will result in binding and higher current draw. 

Just a thought and something to check. 

-Ted


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

navihawk 
in the side frames where the axle goes there is a spring with a cap that pushes on the axle tip.if you over fill, the spring can not move putting more pressure on the axle tip check this out. 
Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 18 Dec 2013 12:28 PM 
With everything installed, are you able to compress the side frame springs when pushing down on the loco? 
The older versions of motor blocks allowed this. However, the newer versions are rigid mounted, and you can't compress the springs. 
So since you have axes with tips that extend into the side frames, and if using new version side frames that are rigid mounted (perhaps mixed up versions of parts), then it's understandable any kind of wheel wobble and / or part tolerance will result in binding and higher current draw. 

Just a thought and something to check. 

-Ted 
Yes I am able to comepress them both. Posted By Dick413 on 18 Dec 2013 01:38 PM 
navihawk 
in the side frames where the axle goes there is a spring with a cap that pushes on the axle tip.if you over fill, the spring can not move putting more pressure on the axle tip check this out. 
Dick 
Positive I did not overfill. I put barely a drop on the ends of each wheel tip and one drop in the side frame bushing.


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I am really close to a place in Cincinnati Called EnterTrainment Junction where they have a ton of model G scale train layouts. I might take a drive up there and ask to talk to one of the volunteers who maintain the locos and see if they have any insight. I'm just stumped on this.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

when you put the side frame on you should feel the spring going in and out. by the time you get this fixed you will be a expert. 
Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Dick413 on 18 Dec 2013 02:25 PM
when you put the side frame on you should feel the spring going in and out. by the time you get this fixed you will be a expert. 
Dick

A spring inside the bushing on the side frame where the wheel nipple rides? I felt no such thing on Either FA unit that I have taken apart.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Look at page 3 of this PDF. i know that this is a rs3 but they do not have a brake down of first gen. FA1 it is the same motor block yours should have the springs 2nd gen.motor block my late first 
gen. motor block has them. http://aristocraftforum.com/NewDocs/explodedDiagrams/rs3.pdf 

Dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I will stick a pin down in there and see if I can feel any resistance. Thanks Dick for all the help you are giving me. That's to all the others as well but Mr. 413 takes the prize.


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

I also have a Gen2 RS-3 with brushes, springs and bushings in the side frame.
Here is a picture. the spring is behind the center round grey metal brush in the brass bushing. 










My problem was a cracked gear and bad bushings but maybe some of these pictures can help.

Repairing an Older Style Aristo Motor Block

Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

I do not have those in my sideframes. Are they missing or were they ever in there? These bricks are the earliest gen that Aristocraft made.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

Navihawk 
now you have me confused which block are you working on. if this is the block without the adjusting screws on the ends that touch the ends of the motor, they are the 2nd gen and should have the springs. 
the earliest gen or first motor blocks the screws on the ends adj. the back lash on the motor and did not come with the springs till late in production then went to 2nd.gen. 
dick


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## navihawk (Jun 10, 2012)

Posted By Dick413 on 19 Dec 2013 03:11 PM
Navihawk 
now you have me confused which block are you working on. if this is the block without the adjusting screws on the ends that touch the ends of the motor, they are the 2nd gen and should have the springs. 
the earliest gen or first motor blocks the screws on the ends adj. the back lash on the motor and did not come with the springs till late in production then went to 2nd.gen. 
dick

My motor block has two lash screws at each end. Remember the videos I posted where we initially thought I was missing a part with the short lash screw? I know you called them 2nd gen but I am not sure how to verify that other than relying on your knowledge. I can tell you that these motor blocks do not have the disconnection point in the wiring to remove the block from the loco. I had to splice in extra long wires in order to pull it out and work on it. My side frames do not have those spring loaded electrical contacts inside the bushing. Just the bushing and that's it. Is it possible that someone put the incorrect sideframes on this? But do we really think the lack of these contacts are causing any problems.


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

first you don't have adj. screws the end of your motor by the gear has no tit to go into the adj.screw hole. if you look at the pdf and the motor end you see what i'm talking about. 
yes the first ones where hard wired so you could be in a change over. 
ok back to your problem are you bushings egg shape at all? 
and here is anther site at the bottom gives some hist. http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips2/rs3_tips.html 

Dick


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