# Homebrew Sound Systems?



## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

Since I'm forgoing DCC for battery power and R/C, does anyone have suggestions on a sound board for a USAT Alco s4? I've thought of rolling my own, I've seen lots of MP3 boards and things like that, but I was wondering how you would change the sound as you throttled up? Use two boards and fade between them while switching sounds? Perhaps use a current sensor to see how much you are drawing? Or are there drop in solutions for this and I'm over complicating things? (wouldn't be the first time)


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you're looking for something on the real, real cheap, check out kids' truck toys--the ones with the push-button sounds on them. A while back, my dad and I converted a few for cheap-and-dirty diesel sounds. Even if I could remember how exactly we did it, it wouldn't likely be applicable to whatever toy you bought, but it's certainly something to look for. 

I don't know how widespread this "feature" is, but on some toy digital sound boards, as you increase the voltage to the board, the pitch increases. So, if you have a way of increasing the voltage to the board, you may get that increase in pitch. It's been many years since I played with that kind of thing, though. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You won't be able to simulate the notches unless you get a number of separate sound loops and then a way to enable them with track voltage. 

There are some boards that can have several files in them, and can loop each of these sounds, but I'd spend the $$ on a cheap card, you would not save much money, and get far worse results.... $100 for a cheap sound card.

What R/C system are you using? There nothing cheaper with sound than the Aristo Revo system, you get a lot for your money and you get sound that's about the same or a little better than the cheap card alone.

Greg


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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

Generic 2.4ghz Airplane radio. At least the innards. Part of the fun of this hobby for me is figuring out this sort of thing and tinkering. Did a lot of web research today, I have a couple of candidates.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I know I will get opposition, but a airplane radio system is not well suited to r/c unless the other side is purpose built (receiver)... 

Have fun tinkering, but there is so much good stuff out there that you won't really be saving money. 

Tony and Del for example have spent years perfecting their products. 

Rolling your own can be fun, agreed, but do it because you want the challenge, not because you will save money over a better quality and more functional commercial unit. 

Regards, Greg


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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

I didn't say cheap, K did. I'm not sure I agree on costs but no worries I like to solder and code stuff anyhow. What is your concern on airplane r/c, obviously the tx is silly for trains but rx? Mine works fine?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, the TX is silly for trains... all too big and wrong feel, and no function buttons. ... as stated in my first sentence... 

You won't be able to equal other systems.... high end because you won't have the sound files and microprocessor.. low end you might be able to come close but why bother UNLESS you just want to have fun ... as stated in my second sentence and 4th sentence... 

By the way, re-read what I said... I used examples, mostly on a cheap card, as compared to what you could come up with. No way you can come up with something that competes with the expensive cards, just too much software development. 

My use of "cheap" was in that context. 

My background is in software development, most recently in dedicated consumer systems with arm-style microprocessors... just like what is used in most train electronics... 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

While for the most part I agree that the 2-stick R/C controls are a bit clunky for controlling trains in light of the smaller, hold-in-one-hand alternatives that are now on the market, I cut my teeth running R/C trains with them for the better part of 10 years as they were the only game in town at the time, and I still use them for my live steamers. They have the advantage of being proportional on 4 channels, which gives the home designer a very high degree of flexibility. Add to that at least two additional channels for on/off features (more on the more expensive 7+ channel radios) and you're right up there with, if not beyond other systems on the market. (No, not quite DCC, but if you want DCC functionality, you're not looking at 2-stick R/C systems anyway.) 

For instance, the old analog systems my dad and I developed (he and I collaborated on ideas and functions, he did the designwork), we had a proportional throttle control on one channel, used a second for direction, with its proportional position controlling the cut-off on the chuff. A third channel controlled a playable whistle when moved right of center, and toggled the bell when moved left of center. Today, I use a circuit from Pololu that's about the same size as a dime to run the lights on my live steamers; one connected to the 5th channel (toggle on/off) for the headlight, and a second paralleled with the j-bar channel for the back-up light. Those same boards can also be used to trigger sounds on a sound system if you wanted to. (And cost a whopping $5 each!) 

One of these days, when I don't have enough projects to fill my time, I want to dissect a Hobby King transmitter and re-configure its controls for one-handed operation. (Hey, at $30, it's not the end of the world if it doesn't work out.) Martan, I'll be interested in seeing what you can come up with in that department. 

Later, 

K


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## VictorSpear (Oct 19, 2011)

Over the recent few years there have been significant advances in integrated low cost, full spectrum sound chips/DACs at reasonable pricing. Worth experimenting - the sound is believably superior to many of the current offerings in off-the-shelf (COTS) decoders.


Cheers,
Victor


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## K.A.Simpson (Mar 6, 2008)

Greg has this on his ite, but has improved on them since but not added anything to his site. Diesels rev up before moving now, and sound great, steamers change sound as they drift! 

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/electronics.htm#sound 

Andrew 
Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure 2 stick (plus channel switches) TX's might be a bit big and clunky for some tastes, but they do have a number of features that are a attractive to many users for R/C'ing large scale trains. 
Number one is cost. They are *cheap*. The 2.4 GHz variety have very long range. Even inside metal locos. The RX's are very small. The radios are legal worldwide and the servo outputs are completely standardised across all brands. All the TX's use short stubby antennas that do not get in the way. 
For those that are happy with four sound triggers, a four channel rig is sufficient. The two extra channels on a six channel systems can be used for all sorts of extra functions including using the new Kadee servo controlled uncouplers without any extra equipment necessary. If you want even more functions you could use TX's that go up to eleven or more channels. 
You have proper Digital Proportional speed control and my RCS systems provide speed matching of dissimilar locos, easy hand off of locos for adding locos to consists under control of a second TX when using external RX to TX binding, simulated controllable heavy drag performance and great reliability.


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## Dansgscale (Jan 9, 2010)

Martin: I think this is what your looking for. There is a company in the UK that makes sound systems for R/C radios. I think Alan Bond is involved with them. He has done a number of sound projects that you can find on Utube. Here is a link to thier wed site. http://www.technobotsonline.com/diesel-engine-sound-simulator.html 

This connects between your RC Receiver and your ESC and when you increase speed the sound revs up like it would in real life. You might want to check it out. And I think you will like the price. 26.95 in english currecny. Not sure what the exchange rate is, but it can't be more then $50.00 US. 

Dan S.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow, I think I'd spend more money.... it sounds really artificial.... 

http://www.technobotsonline.com/Datasheets/3803-200-3-cyl-diesel.mp3 

Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01 Apr 2013 10:07 PM 
Wow, I think I'd spend more money.... it sounds really artificial.... 

http://www.technobotsonline.com/Datasheets/3803-200-3-cyl-diesel.mp3 

Greg Sounds like my old 1961 Ford Falcon with a rod knock!


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I betcha anything you like the Brits will lap that up. 
Sound is actually quite good for the small dismal and petrol powered loks the British market tends to favour.


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## Dansgscale (Jan 9, 2010)

I was thinking about using one of the petrol ones in a homemade railtruck I have plans to build. Since it will be based on a 1920's - 1930's ford or pierce Arrow car, the sound just might work for it. You never know what your going to come across if you do enough web surffing. 

Dan Stuettgen


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Zimo has a pretty good sound file and I've used a couple of their $100 HO decoders for this. 

Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01 Apr 2013 10:07 PM 
Wow, I think I'd spend more money.... it sounds really artificial.... 

http://www.technobotsonline.com/Datasheets/3803-200-3-cyl-diesel.mp3 

Greg 
That's the worst chuff I've ever heard !









Edit: Just checked the site. They do have a chuff! Not too bad. Nice little system. Works up to 15V, so good for most of our stuff. No volume control though


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

and by the way .... Don't like Hobby Radios ? Check out my new "Pocket RailBoss" systems that use a 2.4GHZ keyfob ... 4 sound triggers, etc. All the functions of the Hobby RailBoss.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

One of those diesel sounds is OK when it starts, idles and stops but it revs up in 6 steps and sounds like an old computer car game. 
The steam sound is OK until it chuffs then it sounds awful.

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The phrase "you get what you pay for" has worked for me for a long time.


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## Santafe 2343 (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
That sound was recorded in my bathroom, it is my exhaust fan as the motor was going bad.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rex, I find it hard to believe that your bathroom sounds that bad! 

Knowing you, your bathroom sounds like Santa Fe 3751 ha ha! 

You did see "your" B unit with stereo speakers on one of my youtube videos? 

Greg


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## Batsco (Mar 30, 2011)

Posted By Martan on 25 Mar 2013 01:52 PM 
Since I'm forgoing DCC for battery power and R/C, does anyone have suggestions on a sound board for a USAT Alco s4? I've thought of rolling my own, I've seen lots of MP3 boards and things like that, but I was wondering how you would change the sound as you throttled up? Use two boards and fade between them while switching sounds? Perhaps use a current sensor to see how much you are drawing? Or are there drop in solutions for this and I'm over complicating things? (wouldn't be the first time) 

I have a diesel fitted with a 2.4 GHz Radio Control aircraft type system. 
The motor is controlled by the sound card where the sound increases then the loco starts to move, when the "throttle" is backed off the sound changes to an idle simulating the driver closing the throttle..
The heart for the system is a picaxe microcontroller, which uses BASIC language.
The sound card is a kit form an Australian manufacturercalled "Talking Electronics".
The Radio Control system is a basic one from from Hobbyking.
If you can do basic soldering and can handle a small bit of programming then this is probably the least expensive and basic system that gives a realistic sound.

I found it to be the easiest sound install I have ever done.

See A Simpson's post for a link to the authors site.


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## Batsco (Mar 30, 2011)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Mar 2013 07:51 PM 
I know I will get opposition, but a airplane radio system is not well suited to r/c unless the other side is purpose built (receiver)... 

Have fun tinkering, but there is so much good stuff out there that you won't really be saving money. 

Tony and Del for example have spent years perfecting their products. 

Rolling your own can be fun, agreed, but do it because you want the challenge, not because you will save money over a better quality and more functional commercial unit. 

Regards, Greg 


I would suggest that people look at the "Sandstone & Termite" railway site for a very reliable and inexpensive method for controlling trains using a basic 2.4GHz aircraft radio control.
It uses a transmitter/receiver and a servo controlled switch to give basic R/C control for a train i.e. throttle and direction and if you wire in LED lighting simple directional lighting.
No fancy "bells and whistles" but enough enjoyment for the average person to run a train.
Proprietary systems are fine and dandy, but in these cash strapped economical times they are fast becoming beyond the means of a working person.
When I retire and have only my hobby to consume my disposable income, then I will look at the proprietary brands.
The KISS principle is the philosophy I follow. 
KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are happy with very basic sound, and a motor control system like a Lionel train, then yes, you can do it... even using a servo to move a DPDT switch to reverse the loco. 

But momentum, for example is hard to do if you want to roll your own. 

Just like the massive increase in features when sound systems went from analog to digital, same goes for motor control, and prototypical movement of a loco. 

But, whatever floats your boat... in the end, you definitely get what you pay for... 

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Martan on 25 Mar 2013 01:52 PM 
but I was wondering how you would change the sound as you throttled up? Use two boards and fade between them while switching sounds?
and I'm over complicating things? (wouldn't be the first time) 


I do this using an ITT sound board in my Galloping Goose using..., (wait for it), relays. Once the track gets up to a certain voltage the relay kicks and selects the second sound. I have another relay that switches to the onboard 9-volt battery (and low RPM setting) when the power to the track is cut so it can sit and idle at the station. In the past ITT put two sounds on their boards that you can switch between and you could even specifiy what you wanted on the board. We actually did this over the phone so I could hear the results before he burned the chip. I used their industrial diesel sound board and he raised the RPM for the second sound recorded onto the chip.

So basically its a 2-speed and one RPM just goes to the next when the engine reaches a certain speed. No, it's not the ultimate, but when the goose is just tooling around the track or sitting in-place, it is fine and convincing.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Relays are fine ha ha. Yes, I'd agree that once underway, the goose just "toodles along" pretty much constant. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I used a few ITT 2 sound pcb's Todd mentions for a while as a very good basic sound to simulate small mechanical engines. 
I switched between the two sounds using a small detector pcb I made for idle and run. 
Sadly I don't think ITT makes those sound system pcb's any more.


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## Martan (Feb 4, 2012)

I am working on a design using two of these mp3 boards controlled with an Atmel ATTiny84: 
http://www.mdfly.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=284 
I was going to play the engine sounds based on the r/c channel 1 throttle position but now I'm thinking a current sensor might be better? You pull more load, the sound changes? Not sure yet, lots of experiments await


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## Batsco (Mar 30, 2011)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 16 May 2013 02:40 PM 
If you are happy with very basic sound, and a motor control system like a Lionel train, then yes, you can do it... even using a servo to move a DPDT switch to reverse the loco. 

But momentum, for example is hard to do if you want to roll your own. 

Just like the massive increase in features when sound systems went from analog to digital, same goes for motor control, and prototypical movement of a loco. 

But, whatever floats your boat... in the end, you definitely get what you pay for... 

Greg 
In the end I got a very economical system that I could afford, I live within my means and not on credit.

If waited till I could afford any of the manufacturers products out there, I would be sitting in a nursing sipping soup through a straw before I could convert one train.

I find the higher pricing does not give a proportional increase in performance, both methods make the train move, turn on lights and make a sound.

What is this fascination with following "prototype" and only using commercial products anyway?

After all is said and done these are really only "big boys toys" and if using cheap methods gets others into the hobby isn't that a good thing?

By the way using a discrete mechanical switching method can be better than using an integrated electronic switch from a maintenance point of view.

Off board discrete components can be replaced far easier than integrated on board circuits, which when they fail necessitate full board replacement even though the other functions still work, this just adds to the cost of repair.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

You could always use equipment that doesn't fail, or, perhaps even if it does, it can be repaired.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Batsco... 

"I find the higher pricing does not give a proportional increase in performance, both methods make the train move, turn on lights and make a sound." 

If your entire definition of performance means the lights go on, make a sound and the train moves, then you are right. Every system in the world has basically the same performance. 

Do you drive a car? I guess one without windows, seats, turn signals and a one speed transmission would be fine... 

Sure, if that's all you want, heck just put a battery in your train strapped in there with duct tape and an on off switch. 

Seriously, if your requirements are just as you stated, then you are entitled to them, I would use a center off toggle switch for direction control and a battery chosen for the speed you want. If you want remote control, buy a 3 dollar r/c toy and use the electronics. 

I'm through with this thread... you can do what you want of course, but telling the rest of the hobby they are overdoing it, well, it's you against multitudes.

Greg


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## Dansgscale (Jan 9, 2010)

Batsco , toddalin and Martan: I am tossing this out as an idea that could work if you want to put a little work into it. This is a Idea I have been kicking around for awile as a offshoot of a project I am working on at work. Use a Picaxe Micro and connect it to a MP3 module like the MDfly one you listed. Record your deisel sounds for each of the RPM's that you want it sound to step through. Put each of the different rpm sounds on the SD card in the MP3 player as a different file. Then uses the ADC input on the Picaxe to read the voltage of the speed controller, you can have the Picaxe programmed to step through the sound files as the speed increases and decreases. You could even have some sound files for the deisel whistle and bell to automatically play at certin times as well. 

I am using two of the 20 second sound modules that Dave Bodnar talks about on his website, one for a real train bell sound and one for whistle recorded from a 2-8-0. I have these hooked to the sound terminals on Del Tappro's Rail Boss Plus controller, so I can activate either one with the Joystick on my R/C transmitter. The sound modules are then run through a mixer I built so I can have my chuff ( which is made using an old ModelTronics sound system), Whistle and Bell all operating at the same time and coming out of one 3" speaker. The Chuff rate is done using a 4 lobe contact on the drive axle of my Spectrum 2-6-0, so the rate increases and decreases with the speed of the engine. When the engine comes to a stop then the compressor pumps kick in which is also part of the old Modeltronics stuff. In effect what I have created for about $35 to $40. is a Polyphonic sound system for three different sounds and I can change the bell and whistle at any time should I want to as they are mp3 files. 

The nice thing is all of these items are very small so I was able to get the Rail Boss Plus, two sound modules, Modeltronics cuff and pump modules, R/C receiver, 3" speaker and 4 Cell 14.8V Li-Ion battery pack all in the locomotive tender. 

Something to consider. 

Dan S.


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