# ballast recommendations for indoors



## domer94 (May 4, 2015)

ive seen most of the available ballast made for model railroads, but seems like the G scale is all the very light color which wont fit well for my gritty urban theme. im using black roll roofing as a base on top of the plywood. I saw the 40lb sacks from woodland scenic, but the color is really light. should I use water and india ink or something to darken it? im not exactly up to this stage yet , but thinking ahead


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

On my layouts I use kitty litter, the old school clay non-clumping Johnny Cat variety. I stain mine with acrylic paint mixed with water, I dip it with a strainer, then set it in sunlight on a hot day till it dries out. When I apply it I do exactly the same way its applied in the smaller gauges, with a diluted white glue mix (glue/water/alcohol) applied with either a spray bottle or eye dropper for tight spots.

















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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

domer, I am glad you brought this up as I am wondering the same thing. I inherited modules for my club and need to start reworking them as what ever they used for ballast is coming off and need to replace and I want to rework something which is going to require new stuff and not sure where the person who originally built them got the stuff and what they did to adhere it to the module.


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

I've just started research for my indoor ballasting so this might be of interest to you. My first attempt will be with 'Oil Dri" 

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=36635&whichpage=8

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/194561.aspx - matte medium vs white glue

http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/ballast_tips.html -


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

i am using pool-filter sand, that i darken with black pigment powder (the sort used for cement), as a dry mix.
for the outside of the dam i glue some retaining stripes of foam. upon the foam i use white glue to fix the sand. in the middle the sand stays loose. (the loose sand eliminates some of the driving-noise)


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Domer;

One other source that I have not seen mentioned yet is a roofing supply company. I have read that some of these supply houses sell colored sand or gravel fines in various colors to roofers, and may also sell to the public. Be prepared for this item to only be available in 50 to 100 pound bags. Depending on the size of your layout, a single bag will probably do the trick - with product left over for gondola, hopper, and ballast car loads!

Best wishes,
David Meashey


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I realize this is indoors, and people are talking about using glue or dye, but I'd still be a little worried about this stuff (kitty litter, oil dry) absorbing moisture over time. If the indoor humidity stays low, clearly this will not be a concern.

Greg


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## WCRR152 (Dec 26, 2015)

I have used oil-dry on my outdoor layout now for three seasons, it has been pretty successful outdoors. I would also be concerned about the absorbency of moisture though, if it gets wet, it stays wet for a while. I would still say that might be a good product to look at. it might be difficult to use standard small scale ballasting techniques, the glue might also leave a very wet look to the material. 

WCRR152


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great to have someone with direct experience.

Is your oil-dry just loose, or is it secured with something?

Have you noticed any degradation in it after your 3 seasons?

Thanks, Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

For whatever it's worth........I used oil-dry during my forty years plus as a die sinker/tool maker. Always had some oil leaks around machinery. It just happens. BUT I always noticed the amount of dust that would rise up when putting it down on the floor of the shop and sweeping up. It IS very dusty. In a shop environment, not a big deal. But indoors, I wouldn't use it. JMOH. 

For Greg: The oil-dry we used in the shop was small granules (maybe 1/16 up to 1/8 diameter) packaged in 100# sacks and most shops had at least 4-5, 55 gal. drums of it.. All of this surrounded by lots of dust. In fact, our sweeper/maintenance guys ALWAYS wore dust masks when they were cleaning up the shop. That's ONLY my personal experience with the stuff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, if one were to use it inside, perhaps screening it (separate the dust from the granules) could be done outside first.

Greg


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Most definitely!


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## WCRR152 (Dec 26, 2015)

I agree, if using indoor, screening would be a very good start. To answer your questions Greg, the first year I used an outdoor landscaping glue, that was a bad idea, it ended up setting up in clumps and either breaking ties or just leaving large pads of glue/ rock pads that would float away each rain. The next year I replaced it with just loose oil-dry and that was much better, I have a larger pea gravel rock base under my track so my biggest problem was the oil-dry settling into that mixture, so this spring i decided to put a base of landscape fabric down before the oil-dry and it has held up really well, I do still anticipate having to top it off this spring, but with the heaving with frosts and freezes, if all I have to do is level and add a little back, I will be very happy. 

WCRR152


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## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Kitty litter and oil-dry or other absorbing-type products are made from diatomaceous earth. Diatoms were single cell marine creatures that lived and died by the umpteen trillions. As they died they fell to the sea floor and eventually compacted into rock. Some of the oil fields around Bakersfield, CA produce from diatom-based reservoirs in the subsurface.

Diatoms secreted a silica test or shell. Therefore the dust from this type of product is silica. One can stand small does of silica dust but prolonged exposure leads to silicosis, a nasty and sometimes deadly lung ailment.

My advice is wash the kitty little or oil-dry material through a fine screen outside and then bring it inside. One can also color this material by using Quikrete concrete stains.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Diatomatious earth is nasty stuff if you breath it. Jonny Cat kitty litter is made from a special clay type, so it doesnt have the issues like Diatomatious Earth has,I also thinks it just looks better


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## jaug (Oct 18, 2011)

*Indoor ballast*

You might want to try "stone dust". It's used to set pavers and usually found at a garden center or masonry supply. It does no absorbe moisture and compacts well in tight places. Get the finest grade they have comes in dark gray and black if you can find it. It would also be a good choice for you outside modeler


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## fockewulf37 (Mar 26, 2012)

Personally I use the oil dry . I buy it at Walmart for $4 for 40 lbs. I then sift it to get the smaller fines. I then ballast the track and use a white glue water 50/50 to seal it . I add acrylic paint to the glue to add the appropriate color to the ballast. If you choose not to add color to the ballast make sure you buy several bags the same day because the base color of the oil dry and change a little from batch to batch...


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## woodsworks (May 27, 2014)

I found a letter tray made from an open diagonal-stretched mesh makes a great sieve for separating out a suitable large-scale ballast from builder's mix - that is, the crushed stone used with cement to make concrete - then dropped out the really fine stuff using a kitchen strainer. It's a time consuming way to get finely crushed granite, but it sure looks like real ballast!

By the way, colour variations never bothered the real railroads as they went about sourcing stone from wherever the price was right, so why should it concern us?


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## Chas Foreman (May 7, 2016)

*Free Ballast*

There's road construction where I park near the train station. I keep a bucket in the car and grab a scoop of road base each day. I then sift it and use mostly 1/8" pieces. Here's a couple of test photos.

https://chasforeman.com/2016/04/28/g-scale-track-ballast-test/


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I never would've learned about the dangers of diatomaceous earth if not for this discussion. So please pardon this slightly off-topic question: I have a bag of d.e. (I don't want to have to spell it again) in my garage. I don't recall why I bought it, but it sounds somewhat risky to dispose of. I wouldn't want someone to pick it out of a trash pile and use it for cat litter or something.

Can I just toss it in my trash can or should I take additional precautions?

JackM


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

JackM:

Try a search term such as "diatomaceous earth disposal california" into the search engine of your choice.

Thanks for being concerned about the environment.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

More concerned, really, that some dumpster diver** might not know what it is and open the bag and inhale a faceful of powder.

JackM


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I may be wrong, but I don't think that casual breathing of diatomaceous earth dust is a serious health problem. Where silica dust has been a real problem has been in the digging of tunnels through sandstone. My understanding that working underground with poor ventilation and no dust masks is a real problem. I once read about a water tunnel that was drilled through a hard sandstone in southern West Virginia and many of the miners developed silicosis and some died.

People breath silica rich dust from many casual, nonemployment, situations. In March, Nancy and I spent the night in Monument Valley. While we were there the wind was quite strong and occasionally there was so much dust in the air that we couldn't see the Monuments. We were outside and breathing the dust, along with many other tourists.

Chuck


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Dave Meashey said:


> Domer;
> 
> One other source that I have not seen mentioned yet is a roofing supply company. I have read that some of these supply houses sell colored sand or gravel fines in various colors to roofers, and may also sell to the public. Be prepared for this item to only be available in 50 to 100 pound bags. Depending on the size of your layout, a single bag will probably do the trick - with product left over for gondola, hopper, and ballast car loads!
> 
> ...


Hi David,

I had the idea years ago of using black roofing granules for coal (it's made here in Little Rock) but found (in my opinion) it was too fine & heavy for G Gauge. I found a bunch leaked on the tracks so loaded a couple pails. When it did not work for me I packed some in bags & took it to a train show. At about 50 cents for a 5 pound bag I did not sell a single bag

I may still have that bucket or I may have thrown it away.

Oh well.

Jerry


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Aquarium stones from the pet shop worked for me. Comes in various colors that can be mixed.
TOM


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

JackM said:


> I never would've learned about the dangers of diatomaceous earth if not for this discussion. So please pardon this slightly off-topic question: I have a bag of d.e. (I don't want to have to spell it again) in my garage. I don't recall why I bought it, but it sounds somewhat risky to dispose of. I wouldn't want someone to pick it out of a trash pile and use it for cat litter or something.
> 
> Can I just toss it in my trash can or should I take additional precautions?
> 
> JackM


Just place it in a plastic trash bag, tie it up and place it in the regular trash. Most people use it to control crawling insects In the garden.


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## steamhostler (Jan 1, 2022)

**** Habilis said:


> I've just started research for my indoor ballasting so this might be of interest to you.
> Matte Medium for Ballast - Model Railroader Magazine - Model Railroading, Model Trains, Reviews, Track Plans, and Forums - matte medium vs white glue


In going thru the archives of old posts I was especially interested in this post that Matte Medium NOT being dissolved with water after setting up, but that White Glue was EASILY dissolved by water after setting up, because I am building a 16mm INDOORS Live Steam Railway. The little fire dragons constantly dribble water and a bit of oil all over the roadbed and I do not want the ballast work to be washed away. Thanks for the info!!


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

steamhostler:

I settled on using '*Oil Dri*" with white glue and I'm quite happy with results. While the glue will be dissolved with water it does take a bit of time and it should/probably set up again as the water evaporates. I would recommend making a small test section and try to duplicate your running environment.

Also, you might do a search for something like "*dissolve white glue*".


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## steamhostler (Jan 1, 2022)

Thanks for the info, I've got a 5 gallon bucket of Oil Dri in the garage right now. But my Light Railway doesn't rate such nicely ballasted track, so I'm thinking of using sifted sand/dirt to fill in between the ties...
You model 32mm track 2 ft narrow gauge too? We must be part of the very few few over here!


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## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

steamhostler:

Sorry, I model 1:20.3ish using SVRR 45mm track as 3ft narrow gauge logging.


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## OldNoob (Apr 30, 2016)

possible indoor ballast suggestion tractor supply traction grit on top of foam









Or cat litter for narrow gauge


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