# Regearing The K-27



## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Instead of me trying to figure out how cut and paste the whole thread here is a link to it
http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=14435
Rodney


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Awesome job there Rodney! I love my K but even with battery r/c, the tractive effort just isn't there! Your new gearing will fix that last niggling problem! Please let me know when you have some of the delrin geared boxes ready for sale as I definitely want one!!


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Steve
You were already on my list. You are part of the reason for the final ratio. I know
that most people use 18 volts or less batteries and this gearing will let them run a
little faster than a 2 to 1 gearbox. I made for myself a gearbox with a final ratio
of about 33 to 1 cause I use 24 volts.
Rodney


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Rodney...I'm interested in one too. Put me on your list of buyers and let me know.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Looks great! Consider me interested as well. 

Later, 

K


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Wooow dude


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## R Snyder (May 12, 2009)

Rodney, 
You have been busy. Looks really good.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmmm, that looks like it might be worthwhile, it seems like a pretty simple bolt in conversion. If I may, what is the price range? 

Thanks! Robert


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Rodney, I'm also very interested. I have two B'mann K-27s and would like to re-gear both.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

What lot of interest in something to fix a problem that a certain individual closely associated with the manufacturer, said had nothing wrong with it gearing wise. 

Good luck Rodney.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I've been running a re-geared K for about a year. 
MUCH improved, but we're still working on a change. 
Gearbox/motor is fine, but the moron who claimed locking 2&3 was "the way to go", didn't have a clue. 
I won't mention his name, but he is a moron. 
Working on 1&4 again.


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Jim
Your down for two.

Tony 
I know exactly who you mean and he wants one. 

Dave
I know 




Right now I have 20 for sure that will take one. On this first batch, I would like to 
install the gearbox on your motors myself to insure that this test batch is done right. 
Tony Walsham and Barry will get just the gearbox. I will send Tony a e-mail and talk
to Barry on the phone to take care of them. 
After this "test" batch, I'm guessing the price to be somewhere between $90 and $120
for the gearbox and another $10 if I do the install on your motor.
After this test run, I will be able to figure the time and materials that I have in them
and give a firm price.
The price for the "test" batch will be $75 and that will include the shipping the motor- gearbox
back to you. I guess the easiest way for me to do this is to have you send me a e-mail for 
confirmation. I will send you a return e-mail so you know that I got it.
My e-mail address is: [email protected] 

Thanks everybody
Rodney


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Mike 
I have you down for one 
Rodney


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Somebody on here had a gear go out for their Hudson, maybe Rod could make a few of those??


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 25 Feb 2011 03:36 PM 
I've been running a re-geared K for about a year. 
MUCH improved, but we're still working on a change. 
Gearbox/motor is fine, but the moron who claimed locking 2&3 was "the way to go", didn't have a clue. 
I won't mention his name, but he is a moron. 
Working on 1&4 again. 
Is it really necessary to call people names? Honestly, from an adult point of view, it reflects more badly on you than it does him...

Thanks! Robert


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

This is my take on all of this, and no names will be called.
This Barry's update has been "in the works" for a long time.
I have been patiently waiting for my Barry's K27 gear fix.
It shouldn't take a year to beta test a re-geared Barry's K.
Meanwhile someone else comes along and creates a new gearing system.
Everyone who has been waiting for Barry and Dave jumps ship. 
I run Barry's upgrades in all my Bachmann's.
Absolutely wonderful upgrades.

Question:
Dear Barry and Dave,
How much longer?
Before everyone bails and you won't have anyone except me to buy the BBT for the K.

Thanks,
jb


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Rod,

Can you add me to the list for one please

Thanks Chuck


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

JB,

Dave is shipping the K chassis to me, now.

We want to look at using the fourth axle as the drive axle. This has to do with the locking the first and FOURTH axle, instead of the first and third as it is now.

Rod is using the Bachmann gearbox so he doesn't have the problem I created. After studying this issue, we'll try to put a date on a completion.

Barry - BBT


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Well, I'm standing there at the Bridgeport making parts and wild hair brain idea just hit me.
Using this exact same gearbox I can change the gear ratio by changing the gears in my gearbox.
By changing the 24 tooth gear to a 25, and the 18 tooth gear to a 17, The final gear ratio is 31.35 to1
Changing the 24 to a 19 and the 18 to a 23 the final ratio is 21.24 to 1.
As I said this is using this same gearbox.
I do not have a indexing head (spending another $500 going to hard to explain to the wife) to cut these 
other gears right now, but I will get one ordered soon.
So that means if you have one of these gearboxes and your K is too fast or too slow, all you got to
do is call and I will have a set of on the way to you or I will change them out for you for the cost of
the gears and shipping.


I want to thank Joe Satnic for the gear ratio formula. You explained simpler that my machinist 
handbook does. 

Rodney


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## parkdesigner (Jan 5, 2008)

_Is it really necessary to call people names? _ 

YES - yes it is... a spade is a spade - and the MORON that screwed up the K27 should be run out of town! If Dave, and others, don't speak up just imagine how much damage St..err.. I mean "moron" might continue to do! Notice that since the K had crappy sales (and Bachmann will tell you that! just ask them... they scratch their heads as to why everyone didn't buy two!) the Bachmann 1:20 line has been reduced every year... now, just for fun dream that the K actaully worked well... and an aftermarket fix wasn't needed - I wonder what new items 2011 would have held from Bachmann in 1:20?! 

Moron is the NICE way of addressing the idiot's MASSIVE screw up on the K-27 gearing... one that hurt the modelers, g-scale fans, and the hobby as a whole.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Dear Parkdesigner, Are you sure you know what are you talking about? There is nothing wrong with the gearing on the K-27 by Bachmann. I thoroughly analysed the combination of the motor (as specified by Mr Barry of BBT-fame) and the gearing used, and it is close to optimal. You can look up the relevant thread from a couple of years ago on the LSC. Sure, the locomotive runs faster than prototypical at full permissible voltage, but then you can temper your voltage throttle, right;-)? Apparently, the engine was designed with all hobbyists in mind, not only those of you who want to run slow and inefficient (in terms of the motor too powerful for the task). Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Correct ratio, my behind. 
We went through this then. Zubi was wrong then and he is still wrong. 
Sure they run just nicely on the flat. Perhaps Zubi can explain why it is the K-27 bogs down going upgrades and around curves, and runs away going downhill. 
Bachmann screwed up because they listened to someone who new zip. Those that caused the screw up are still trying to cover it up with implausible denials. They should come clean and admit they screwed up. 
They K-27 gearbox needs fixing and fixed they will be. 
Then perhaps self opinionated people who know zip, will do just that and zip it.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Tony, that is a perfectly prototypical behaviour for a steam locomotive, so I see nothing wrong with the fact that a scale (electric) model replicates this. LGB Moguls slow down uphill too and spin if overloaded. As for being wrong, I provided pretty exact calculations, given all the info about the motors provided by Mr Barry. Everything was explained. Nobody, including you, had any hard arguments against what I showed. Best wishes, Zubi


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Zubi. 
The arguments we had two years ago were based on practical experience of K-27 locos in operation. Something I believe you had not actually experienced. You offered theories. 
The arguments against your point of view still are based on practical experience. Now, with the added passage of time, there is even more practical experience to back them up. 
How many K-27's have you actually operated? 
The ratio was originally specified to be as close to 30:1 as possible. The gearbox was actually built that way. Beautifully built by the way. It got screwed up when Bachmann suddenly remembered that they were supposed to use a twin start worm on the motor to prevent jerking going downgrade which often occurs with single start worms. Changing to a twin start worm immediately doubled the speed at any given revs. This reduced the pulling power and causes the loco to bog down on grades. 

How many Steam outline Large Scale locos can you cite that have 14.5:1 final drive ratios?


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Posted By zubi on 28 Feb 2011 03:58 AM 
that is a perfectly prototypical behaviour for a steam locomotive 




There may be some truth here... does it make it right in the model??? I for one look forward to any improvements offered to improve the K-27 running capabilities. I would more than likely buy a 2nd K-27...


Real trains are not made from plastic, come with sockets or flickering LEDs to represent a fire... 


Alan


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Zubi, do you have a link? I'd be interested in reading that particular thread... 

I do own two, and I have tried to run them as much as possible since I've had them (mid-December), and I really haven't formed a solid opinion either way as of yet, I'm trying to remain open-minded. I will say that they do drag down quite a bit on grades, especially on curves. But then again, dragging AMS cars around with stock wheels and trucks is a challenge for any locomotive... 

I'm interested in improving anything, depending on cost vs. benefits. 

I guess my question is if the problem was caused by Bachmann changing the worm as opposed to any particular individual's input? 

Again, I don't know, just asking? 

Thanks, Robert


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

It got screwed up when Bachmann suddenly remembered that they were supposed to use a twin start worm on the motor to prevent jerking going downgrade which often occurs with single start worms. Changing to a twin start worm immediately doubled the speed at any given revs. This reduced the pulling power and causes the loco to bog down on grades. 

So has anyone actually tried replacing the double start worm with a single start worm? 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think just to be picky, it's called a "dual lead" worm. (Although double start conveys the right impression). 

Have not heard of it being done. 

Zubi, where have you been? This was cussed and discussed a long time ago, after the dust settled, there seemed to be only one person and one company on the planet that thought the gearing in the K was right. 

Greg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, some of the people on this forum may consider the gearing for the K to be "just right" but judging by the abysmal sales, they are in a teensie weensie minority! Be that as it may, I'll give you the stipulation that the gearing ratio and subsequent performance of the Bachmann K-27 is _exactly_ as was planned. Furthermore, I'll stipulate that the performance of the model closely parallels that of the prototype! _Even then, it's performance is unacceptable to me as a large scale consumer! _This is why I will be one of the first to have my K re-geared. As to whether Bachmann's "explanation" for the gearing ratio is believeable? Well.........


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

as a 1 20.3 modeller and not a millionaire,,, bachmann are the only company out there making affordable locos,,, ie bellow 1000 english pounds and i desperately want them to make more large scale locos 

any thing drgw or rgs would be a good seller,,,, as would generic 1 20.3 passenger coach,, wether in kit form or rtr and there are plenty of good designs out there that could be made from other railroads which would be a commercial success,,, 

but all to often they let you down with stupid silly faults and it makes me so angry,,,, 

i just hope they can listen to whats been said and take heed,,, 

and no other manufacturer seems to want to dabble in 1 20 plastic locos


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I keep reading people saying "abysmal" sales, but I know for a fact that some product codes were run, one at least three times. Where can I find some information on Bachmann sales of their different products? I might add, that since the K, didn't Bachmann produce the Mallet and the little diesel thingymabob, and re-run the 4-4-0's, 2-6-0's and the Climaxes? (Or is that "Climaxi?") 

Thanks, Robert


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

My take on the whole affair is a bit late, in that I was not in large scale when the decisions were made. I own a K (it was my first large scale purchase) and overall I am happy with my purchase. I can't afford Accucraft, I am not independently wealthy. That being said, the K is absolutely geared too high. I stirred this pot a while back, and after a bit of research, came to the that conclusion as well as those who told me so. My research said something on the order of 22-24:1 would cover the entire speed range from 0 to the suggested max of about40-45. At 30:1 this gets cut to about 30 max (which is what is allegedly posted on the backhead of the 464 at Huckleberry). Mine definitely drags on upgrades and runs on downgrades. For the most part I use mine at shows where it runs continuous for hours on end so it really doesn't make any difference to the viewing audience. For the guys that like to run operations and timetables on heavily selectively compressed layouts, the drag and run could present an issue. I will purchase an upgrade for mine, I would like it to be more prototypical, as I would like to run operations when i get my layout built (someday). As for sales, why argue an issue we can't change or fix. 

Bob C.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By rdamurphy on 28 Feb 2011 03:55 PM 
Zubi, do you have a link? I'd be interested in reading that particular thread... 

[...]
Thanks, Robert 
Robert, 
This is the link: http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=10157&p=9
the figures are missing because I moved them in my Flickr account. 
So here is Fig. 1 
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/3099251143_bed123274c_z.jpg?zz=1
and here Fig. 2
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/3100116514_9be723fb73_z.jpg?zz=1
I hope they are visible, if not, I will move them elsewhere.
Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Guys,

I second what Bob C said above, Bob they are also redoing the Lyn & the small 2-6-0. I would like to see a 120.3 Coke, Brooks or Grant 2-6-0 and the same in a2-8-0. 

I asked at the Bachmann table, at one of the York shows and was told they made better than six thoasand in the first run of the K27. If Bachmann where to change the cylinders to an outward cant they could redo it and we would have a model of both styles of the prototype. I would buy another if they did this. Maybe the gearbox could be upgraded also.

chuckger


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

chuckger, they could re-run the same ones and be able to do the 452, the Marshall Pass wreck locomotive, 459, and the 462, the non-superheated one with the green boiler. Plus some variations. But I agree, it would be cool to have the inside cylinder models also. 

And, of course, my wildest dream: C-19's... 

Thanks! Robert


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I believe that changing the cant of the cylinders of the K's was originally in the plan for a second run but the slow (I won't say poor) sales nixed that idea. At least that was the rumor going around about a year after the K came out. I'm not sure what it would take to do it but I would cough up the money to get a second IF, in addition to the new canted cylinders, all of the problems (including the gear ratio) was fixed in advance!


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Steve,

What other problems are you talking about? 

I'm aware of the gearing problem and the inverted chuff sensor, what else??

Chuck


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck:

Some were upset at the reddish classification lights on the front of the engine, they should have been white. There was also the problem, fixed very quickly by Bachmann, of the counterweights slipping.


Chuck N


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Just changing the cylinders isn't quite enough, it would require quite a bit of redesigning of the valve gear. I wouldn't mind having the "orignal" Vauclain version either. Not to mention when they were simplified and Stephenson Valve Gear added. 

OK, back to the gearing, though, like I said, I'm keeping an open mind... 

Thanks, Robert


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

David Fletcher, Rod Hayward and some others have taken Bachmann Connies with Baker valve gear and have turned them into K-27 in 1:22.5 scale! Yes, it would require modification of the valve gear but I would bet not nearly as much as what was needed to make a K from a Connie! As to other problems with the K, oh.....floating front drivers allowing the K not to track into curves properly, a fan that sucks in the smoke, loose counterweights, improperly colored classification lamps....small things mostly. These were problems that Dave Goodson found and corrected when he installed my RCS r/c system and Sierra digital sound. He was able to correct everything except the gear ratio (but that is the subject of another thread) before I even saw the K so my personal impressions of this locomotive are quite favorable!! The power of the engine is the only real criticism I have left and that will be fixed with Rodney's motor and gearbox assembly!


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

The chuff signal is electrically back to front from all the other Bachmann Spektrum locos and requires the addition of an inversion circuit to be able to use it effectively with most sound systems. 

I will say that I have converted more than a couple of dozen Bachmann K-27's to battery R/C now. None of them have had the stock wiring changed in any way, and electrically speaking they all work properly. 
Except for the back to front fan which is a PITA to reverse so that it blows smoke out of the smoke stack instead of sucking it in.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony, one of my K's had a wiring problem out of the factory box. The class lights/cab lights/firebox lights didn't work, I traced the problem to the wiring between the tender and the locomotive on the Hogger's side: Two wires were reversed from the plug to the board. 

Interestingly enough, both of my K's already had the fans reversed, even though one of them was early enough that I had to replace the counterweights... 

Thanks, Robert


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess there is always an exception to the rule with K-27 wiring. It has been my experience with the more than 2 dozen I have converted, that the wiring was just fine. 
If your fans were reversed, they are the only ones I have ever heard about. Which way does the air flow? It isn't simply a matter of reversing the wiring. The fan is omni directional electrically and has to be removed, turned over and remounted with different, shorter, screws. 

Which is the Hoggers side? Left or right facing forwards?


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

The Hoggers side is the side the engineer sits on, to the right of the boiler, facing forwards. 

I took the boilers apart and checked the fans, they both blue upwards towards the boilershell, and have the labels on the fans facing upwards as well. Basically, if you look at this drawing: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/stevec/Misc-Files/K27dwg-02.jpg 

The gray and green wires were reversed between PCB01 and PCB09.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bob. 
I have never heard of the fans being the right way around out of the box. Always a first time.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Getting back to the regearing....so I guess nobody has tried just replacing the double with a single start worm then? I can't believe someone hasn't tried that!? 

Keith


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Keith 
If you were to replace the worm with a single thread, you get a very bad surge in the loco. 

Rodney


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes in theory, Rodney, but have you actually tried it? I'm just thinking it would be worth trying...surging depends on a lot of different factors and until you try you never know.  

Keith


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Keith,

Normally if you change the worm, you'll need an appropriate matching worm gear. Since this is a brass gear, it wouldn't be cheap (especially with a metric thread.

Barry - BBT


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I see, thanks Barry. I'd be tempted to try it anyway, but I've been known to be a little haywire! 


Keith


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

I had a gentleman drive 200 miles to hand deliver 2 motors for the gearbox install yesterday. I hurried and finished 
one up and sent it home with him. He ran it some today and this is his first impressions on it. 



"Got the loco setup and running...First impressions: 
1. the low speed control is incredible! 
2. The surging is mostly gone - it still pauses a bit on one really crappy section of track (fix the track - Duh!)3. it's pretty noisy, still. This loco hasLocolink's Sound-link and is pretty crappy. I think that Phoenix sound 
would probably cover up most of it, as would more use. It seems to be getting better with a good run-in. 
4. I think the speed and control are very prototypical. Sweet." 



Today the one I've been testing had one of the derlin gears start slipping on the shaft. I'm only using .0015 
press fit to hold them cause I don't crack gear(connie) syndrome. I was pulling 4 Accucraft gons with 50 lbs 
of lead in them up the 4% grade stopping and starting. I tore it apart, applied some red loctite and let cure 
about 2 hrs. I did the start and stopping on the grade for about1 1/2 hrs before it got too dark I added 3 
more pounds of lead to the loco tonight. With this I hope to pull around 80 to 90 lbs in the gons. If it will 
take this abuse without the gear slipping, I think it will be OK. 

The noise in the one I'm testing is getting better the more I run it. Right now it a slight whining sound 
going forwards. Backwards it has no noise. 


Will try to get some video downloaded this weekend. 


Rodney


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Now we know what your doing to do when you retire.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I got the motor out of my K-27 today...here's how.

Here's what you'll need for tools









Here's the parts that should removed to get the boiler off and the motor out









The first step to remove the boiler is to remove the screw that connects the Johnson bar linkage on the boiler section to the chassis. When done, it looks like this.









Then you remove the two firebox support arms that are screwed into the front deck.

Next, remove the two screws underneath the cab at the rear of the loco. These are the screw holes that result.









Then, twist and pull the sand dome off the top and remove the single screw under it. Here's the hole....









OK...all the screws are out...now to get the boiler off the chassis, lift the rear of the cab up until the steam tubes are clear of the running board at the front. Then...push it forward. You might want to pull the smokebox front off so that you can see what you're trying to accomplish. On the bottom of the smoke box, you'll see a lip that the lower boiler is trapped under. What you need to do is to slide the boiler forward so it becomes free of the lip. Just wiggle and push from the rear of the cab/boiler and you'll see it move forward. When it's free of the lip, the boiler/cab will come free. Here's that damn lip...










You're now ready to remove the motor. To remove the motor, you first remove the gear case cover on the bottom of the chassis. There are four small screws. When the cover is off, it looks like this.









Then, on top of the chassis, remove the two screws and straps that hold the gearbox down and the motor down. At this point, the whole motor and gearbox is loose. Lift up on the motor/gear box, and with the large #2 Phillips, unscrew the two screws connecting the gearbox to the motor. You can then just pull the motor out of the gear box. Then clip the motor leads...I had to cut some tape with the knife to do that...and the motor is out.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Mike! I appreciate the step-by-step and photos


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Absolutely brilliant Mike. 

 Thank you very much. 
May I link this "how to" to my website for future reference please? 

Whilst it is apart might I suggest you remove the fan and turn it over so that it blows air upwards. 
You will have to find screws of the right length before you put it back. 
Once turned over, the smoke unit will blow copious amounts of smoke out of the stack instead of sucking the smoke downwards.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Check the fan first, some of them are already upside down. I believe the sticker on the fan hub should face upwards toward the boiler? 

Robert


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I sell Sunon fans here in Australia. 
Every one I have in stock has the sticker on the exhaust side. So if the Bachmann fan is made by Sunon then Robert is definitely correct. The sticker side should face upwards.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 10 Mar 2011 06:02 PM 
Absolutely brilliant Mike. 

Thank you very much. 
May I link this "how to" to my website for future reference please? 

Whilst it is apart might I suggest you remove the fan and turn it over so that it blows air upwards. 
You will have to find screws of the right length before you put it back. 
Once turned over, the smoke unit will blow copious amounts of smoke out of the stack instead of sucking the smoke downwards. 
Sure...go for it.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Mike, 

You have done a wonderful job of making this a easy to follow step by step and pictures are great.

Thank you for posting. Here is a Big ATTABOY for you


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike has graciously allowed me to use his pictures and text on my web page dedicated to the K-27:


*http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mai...inmenu-263* 


It's under the section titled "boiler removal". This way it's archived and easy to find (my search function works great ha ha!)


Regards, Greg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Excellent! Now, all I have to do is find Rodney's telephone number.....(bloody ****!! Where IS it??)


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

The last few days have been spent making and buying additional tooling to make it easier to make these gearboxes. 
Still waiting for a order of bearings that I need. 
My test loco's are as follows: 
All with the gearboxes. The 1st and 4th drivers have been bushed for no lateral play. 
#453 All wiring has been gutted in the loco and tender. 4.2 AH Ni-MH 24V battery, Airwire and Phoenix P=5 
8 lbs of lead added and balanced between 2nd and 3rd driver. 
#463 Cut stock PC board out of the tender and used B-man wiring. Loco is factory stock 4.2 AH Ni-MH 18V battery, 
Airwire and Phoenix P5. 3 lbs of lead added and balanced 
#464 Factory stock with a Aristo Rev board installed. 4.2 Ah Ni-MH 18V battery 
All loco are wired for trailing car battery. 

Gearbox in loco #463 has over 100 hrs of running on it. with the sound off you can here a little gear noise 
when it pulling a grade with 2 AMS gons with 25 lbs of lead in them. On the flat and down hill, no noise. 
With a 14.2 V battery and the throttle wide open on level track pulling 15 lbs in the gons, 50 seconds to 
go 80 feet. Up 2% grade pulling the gons, 200 feet it took 2 minutes 6 seconds. 

With this gearing, The loco stays a pretty much a constance speed on the flat in curves and on the grade. 
pulling 5 AMS boxcars and a caboose. 

#453 will pull 5 gons with over 100 lbs in them on the level track and 70 lbs up the 4% grade. will do some 
more weight pulling with #464 and see how well a stock loco will pull on the 4% grade. 

I ran #453 with my Accucraft K-28 and they ran very good together. 



Rodney


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm starting to swing over towards the idea of using your gearbox, I'm interested in seeing a comparison with the stock K-27 to get an idea of exactly how much improvement there really is. Personally, given #6 switches, and perhaps a 12' minimum diameter, couldn't all 4 drives be bushed up? 

Would that require disassembly of each wheelset? 

Thanks, Robert


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Robert, 
I use 12 foot min radius and #6 turnouts on my layout. #464 was my first engine and when I converted it to battery, 
I bushed all 4 axles and they were fine. The portable steam layout that I have uses 10 foot radius curves and on it 
the engine slowed badly so I took out the bushing on #2 and #3 axle. I haven't had any trouble since. 

I pulled the axles out to put the bushings in but Dave Goodson does it by using a rubber washer and splitting it and 
slipping it over the axle. 

Rodney


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

So, with all 4 axles bushed, we're looking at a 12' minimum radius. That works. I was thinking about joining the Garden Railway club up at the CRRM this Summer, so I could have a place to run all out, I'll have to find out what their radius is before changing anything. 

Robert


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

I mixed the engines #'s up. 
They should be: 
#464 All wiring has been gutted in the loco and tender. 4.2 AH Ni-MH 24V battery, Airwire and Phoenix P=5 
8 lbs of lead added and balanced between 2nd and 3rd driver. 
#463 Cut stock PC board out of the tender and used B-man wiring. Loco is factory stock 4.2 AH Ni-MH 18V battery, 
Airwire and Phoenix P5. 3 lbs of lead added and balanced 
#453 Factory stock with a Aristo Rev board installed. 4.2 Ah Ni-MH 18V battery 
All loco are wired for trailing car battery. 

I shouldn't post anything when I too tiered. 



Rodney


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

I have updated the thread over on the LSC site with a video of #453 running 

Rodney


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I have installed one of rodney's gearboxes in my K. I am running QSI with a 14.8 LiIon battery. The loco is a total rewire and I don't have any axels bushed, yet. Loco has no extra weight added. I sent my motor to Rodney and he sent me my motor and abox geared for the 14.8 volts with extremely quick turnaround time. What I have found so far: The craftsmanship looks great. The install is straight forward and only requires basic tools. The only problem i had was on my end. TAKE NOTE: the bushings on the drive axle have a key fitting on each bushing that the gear box cover fits onto, if you turn the cover over you can see the rectangluar cut. I didn't realize this and had a heck of a time installing the cover. Once I realized my mistake it went like a breeze. In performance, the loco has great bottom end. I was holding the coupler doing a generic draw bar test, this loco is a brute! Acceleration is nice and steady. The top end would appear to be half of what it used to be. Even with a 14.8v battery the loco was waaaaay fast, the gear box has slowed it to a much more accurate speed. The gear box does have some noise to it but I have yet to install the loco body back on the chassis so I would assume it will quiet down. Although, the QSI sound does cover it up unless you put your ear right up to it. My layout is still buried in leaves so all of this was done inside on a short 14' test track. As soon as I get it cleared I'll give a report from outside, but so far I am very pleased! 

Terry


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## jlyans (Jan 2, 2008)

Today 01:14:09 MST Edit | Reply | Quote 

Today I installed Rodney's gearbox between the factory Pittman motor and the existing Bachmann gearbox. I also added some lead to the engine. What a huge improvement. At full voltage, (19 volts), the engine moves along at just over half of it's original speed. At 14 volts, (the voltage I intend to use to RC/battery control), the speed is much more realistic with way better torque. It will pull 10 cars up a curving 4% grade barely slowing. It's more like starting up in 1st gear instead of 3rd gear. Before the conversion the engine would slow way down on even modest curves and then would take off like a rocket on the straight track. Now only minor voltage changes are needed if at all. I have been testing one of these gearboxes for Rodney and the only issue I encountered was having a set screw on the worm that was interfering with the gear. This was making a noise. The set screw needed to be shortened by about a millimeter. Now it is very smooth and quiet. I uploaded a video to Youtube from my phone. The noise you can hear is from a plane that I didn't notice while I was shooting the clip.

You Tube clip of K-27 chassis/motor/gearbox

Rodney is ready to start installing these now. Right now he is having people send him the motor and he is installing the box on their motor. I think most anyone could do the install themselves but it does require some type of gear puller to pull the worm from the motor shaft and some type of press to put it on the new output shaft. Rodney is setting up a website to sell these and some other cool products as well. His URL is: 


http://www.randkrailroadproducts.com/ 

http://www.randkrailroadproducts.com/
http://www.randkrailroadproducts.com/
I know that Rodney has been working on this project for two years and I am really happy to have a solution for the gear ratio problem. This brings the ratio close to what I think Bachmann originally intended. My K-27 may finally get off the shelf and start to log some mileage.

John Lyans


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By paintjockey on 30 Mar 2011 09:29 AM 
I have installed one of rodney's gearboxes in my K. I am running QSI with a 14.8 LiIon battery. The loco is a total rewire and I don't have any axels bushed, yet. Loco has no extra weight added. I sent my motor to Rodney and he sent me my motor and abox geared for the 14.8 volts with extremely quick turnaround time. What I have found so far: The craftsmanship looks great. The install is straight forward and only requires basic tools. The only problem i had was on my end. TAKE NOTE: the bushings on the drive axle have a key fitting on each bushing that the gear box cover fits onto, if you turn the cover over you can see the rectangluar cut. I didn't realize this and had a heck of a time installing the cover. Once I realized my mistake it went like a breeze. In performance, the loco has great bottom end. I was holding the coupler doing a generic draw bar test, this loco is a brute! Acceleration is nice and steady. The top end would appear to be half of what it used to be. Even with a 14.8v battery the loco was waaaaay fast, the gear box has slowed it to a much more accurate speed. The gear box does have some noise to it but I have yet to install the loco body back on the chassis so I would assume it will quiet down. Although, the QSI sound does cover it up unless you put your ear right up to it. My layout is still buried in leaves so all of this was done inside on a short 14' test track. As soon as I get it cleared I'll give a report from outside, but so far I am very pleased! 

Terry 
The highlighted part above IS IMPORTANT. You need to take the lower gear case cover off during disassembly to allow you to LIFT the whole gear case up to remove the gear case to motor screws. Problem is...it also means that those axle bushings come off the gear case because they're trapped by the axle. Accordingly, once free of the gear case housing, they will rotate around the axle and you won't see the rectangular tabs that need to be aligned with the gear case cover that you removed. 

When you reassemble the engine, after you have the new motor/gearbox screwed to the original gear case AND BEFORE YOU SCREW THE MOTOR AND GEARBOX BACK DOWN, you need to turn the engine over and from the bottom, align the bushing with the side of the gearbox AND ensure the rectangular tabs (which are keys) are centered. Then, put the gear case cover on...ensuring that it fits over the rectangular keys on the bushing. When it's tight, you can turn the chassis right side up and screw down the motor and the gear case.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Installed the re-geared motor from Rodney. WOW! I'm tickled pink! Very smooth. Still plenty of speed. I haven't done a test where I measured the scale miles per hour, but that will be next. I run NCE DCC with a Crest 23v power source, so about 19v to the track. The only thing is the extra noise from the gears, but Rodney says that goes away after the gears get more wear and break in a bit. I have Phoenix sound so it's not too noticeable even now. 

I now consider this my best locomotive. The gear ratio was the last thing that was bothering me about the loco. I have a pretty flat layout, but there is one section where it's about a 1% grade. The loco would race down the grade and slow way down back up the other side, even on this minimal grade. Now it looks like it's on cruise control, no noticeable difference going down or up. 

I'll see if I can clock the top speed in scale miles per hour and report back. I didn't do any pulling tests as that seems to have been covered by several already. 

I would definitely recommend Rodney's re-gearing


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

So I measured the scale MPH and got 26.1. I don't have a big layout and my longest straightaway is 156.5" long. I took 4 timings and picked the one that came up twice, 6.91 seconds to travel the 156.5". 

You can check my math: 

156.5 / 6.91 => 22.648 inches/second. To get to 1:1, I multiply times 20.3 => 459.761 scale inches/second. Divide by 12 to get feet/second. Multiply * 60 to get feet/minute. Multiply * 60 to get feet/hour. Divide by 5280 to get miles/hour. 26.122 scale Mph. 

My best guess is I'm getting around 19v to the track.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Just installed rodney's gearbox ,i'll say well worth the money, smooth pulling power with 15 cars in tow and on top batteries last ca 1/3rd longer (my driving)Really fast turnaround ,ca 8 days) 

manfred


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

A couple days ago ,instaling the k 27 downgearing Rodney called me to check if i recieved my motor with gearbox ,(GOOD SERVICE/) I told him that i just attached the boiler shell on my K27and i am ready for a test run,well if i purchase another K27 i would go the same way.I am impressed with the slow speed and pulling power( i did not tell Rodney that i had to open up the shell again because i pinched the headlight connections right off) 

I like to gutt the electronic in both loco and tender,here is the Question: i want to keep the firebox flicker and the directional lighting,can i hack the board or( i am using the sierra steamsound)do i use the sierra flicker and light feature? does someone know if the Sierra flicker is as bright as the Bmannflicker? 

Manfred


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Just an update. My gearbox is still running strong. The gear box has quieted down considerably. The only complaint i'm going to note is that the loco may be too powerful. I had a pine cone wedged under the loco and it wouldn't stall out. It muscled through a switch bent the point and continued on tearing up ballast the whole way while still hauling 15 or so cars behind it! The "old" K would have stalled out long before that.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dr. Rivet and I put Rodney's magic boxes on three of our Ks yesterday afternoon. The the reinstall took longer than the disassembly. Ran them on at short piece of track in his steaming bay that we hooked up to power. They all ran! This afternoon I had mine on rollers for an hour or so and now have had them both outside. The gear noise is noticeably down after the break in. Ran it in both directions, changed the direction every 15 minutes. No cars behind them yet. It is thundering now so I better go and bring them in.

Chuck

Thanks Rodney 


PS We did not have to remove the cover on the gear box. All four of our motors pulled straight out of the gear box, once we removed the screws and the brackets. They also went back in without any problems.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

This morning I was a little curious about the speed and voltage of the my modified Bachmann K-27. I had it out this morning pulling 6 AMS cars (2 Box, 2 Reefer, and 2 Drop bottom gons) and a Bachmann long caboose. The engine would start moving the train with about 6 volts on the track.

Here is a table summarizing my results. The time is, what it took to make one loop of my mainline (87'). 


Voltage time (sec.) speed (MPH) 10.4 121 10 16.1 65 18 22 46 27 





Chuck N

PS I'm running on a track with 10' diameter (Aristo) wide radius curves. I have never had any noticeable speed change when entering or leaving these curves, either with the original gear box, or the new one. I have not added any additional weight to the engine.


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