# Sierra sound and Aristo Train Engineer?



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Anybody have any experience with Sierra Sound card, Aristo's Train Engineer (on-board receiver) and batteries? I acquired a USA F3 engine with Train Engineer/batteries and wanted some noise; so I installed a Sierra card and it works but not correctly (having difficulty with horn and throttle presenting itself correctly and consistently). I tried a complete reboot/reset and adjusted all the parameters to no avail. Maybe I got a bad board or there is some anomaly present with my installation and or the combination of goodies therein?

Michael


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Sierra sound doesn't play well with most motor controllers. Get a Sierra interface board. A few people have them. In the mean time disconnect it, it will probably cause a current loop that won't do any of your electronics good. 

Here's a link to an interface board((*SSI-12v5)*: http://evo.beltrol-rc.com/p1164-ESC's.html

There are schematics out there too if you want to build it yourself.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael.... If you're using a Sierra diesel module, you will need an adapter board. There are some Sierra adapter boards out there. Star Hobbies had some new ones and I have a couple used.

Basically, they filter the PWC and will allow the diesel module to work "normally". Steam modules are not effected by the PWC and will work per the wiring diagrams when using pins 11 & 12 for chuff trigger. One other thing to keep in mind with the Sierra modules.... They like 14-16 volts on the track or battery input. More than that, they will cut out. 

Aristo Craft is making a PWC adapter which works better than the Sierra adapter. I've done some testing with it and am very pleased with the results. They will even allow higher battery voltage.

The Super Receivers should be available sometime in September. Not sure about the adapter boards. No issue date has been announced. 

You can get additional information on the Aristo Craft forum under battery/RC. Look for the posts *Sierra Sound adapter board* and *First look at the pwc to linear device * 
You'll need to go back a page for the second post.


First image is with the REVOLUTION receiver, Sierra adapter and Sierra diesel module.










Here's the adapter board in the middle of a Sierra module on the left and the new Aristo Craft Super receiver on the right. 










And a simple wiring hookup...










email if you'd like... [email protected]


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

It's not so much that they filter PWC but rather that the motor controllers which use PWC like to keep the motor leads high (i.e. both at the same high voltage which is "0" volt difference for the motor itself) when at zero. This causes a current loop through the Sierra board via the common ground. The adapter boards solve this problem and completely isolate the motor outputs from the sound card. Maybe there is also a PWC issue but I never get that far.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rmcintir on 31 Aug 2010 08:48 PM 
It's not so much that they filter PWC but rather that the motor controllers which use PWC like to keep the motor leads high (i.e. both at the same high voltage which is "0" volt difference for the motor itself) when at zero. This causes a current loop through the Sierra board via the common ground. The adapter boards solve this problem and completely isolate the motor outputs from the sound card. Maybe there is also a PWC issue but I never get that far.  Yerrite.... Filter is not the correct word. "Isolate" may be a better one but not being an electrical, electronic techie type, I just hook 'em up to see if they work as designed. If they do, success achieved. Then report results.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure the chuff will work OK, but, if you don't use the pwm adaptor pcb with a Sierra steam sound you will not get the "at idle" effects. The dynamo will be permanently ON. With the adaptor, and when the sound drops back to idle, it goes OFF. Only to come on again when the loco starts moving.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks guys it seemed like the problem was associated with the T.E. verses the bench set-up with my dual power supply, I get it now. All right then Sierra Sound and PWC ESC’s are not friends.... That said does Phoenix's sound board suffer from this filtering prerequisite associated with PWC controllers? 

I may re-think this install as the T.E. limits my options anyway and requires an ancillary support filter board and cost associated with same. Adding this filter board to the cost matrix puts the whole mix of parts on the shelve IMO. Perhaps I could build my own filter board and save some dollars; but I am still playing with a sub-par system capabilities as compared to current offerings and costs thereof. 

Regards, 
Michael


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 01 Sep 2010 07:47 AM 
That said does Phoenix's sound board suffer from this filtering prerequisite associated with PWC controllers? 

Michael, the Phoenix 2K2, PB9 and P8 can be used directly with the REVOLUTON receiver's auxiliary harness. The P5 must have the P5T adapter to be compatible. 



In any case when using the Phoenix products, DO NOT[/b] connect the black wire from the REVOLUTION auxiliary harness to the sound modules. 

You will find all the wiring diagrams for all R/C products on the Phoenix information link on their website.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael, you can get away with not using the opto adapter *IF* the Sierra does not use the traction battery, is driven only by the motor outputs and retains the Sierra back up battery. Then it will work just fine. 
However, simply connecting the sound triggers will not allow the sounds to be triggered by the ESC. Because you cannot have a common ground, the sound triggers must be a mechanical connection instead. Like a reed relay with the coil(s) triggered by the sound trigger output of the ESC.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Tony and Stan, 

I have the old original 27mHz Train Engineer TX and 5490 onboard mini RX. The traction battery (3S1P 5000mAh LiPo’s) are independent of the sound/smoke system battery. 

I installed three miniature reed triggers in the fuel tanks belly. We tested and configured all on the bench with A+ results. I later moved the sound module assembly (the F3’s fuel tank loaded with card, speaker and triggers) to the engine and connected the power input leads to the isolated on-board sound system battery (2500mAh) via on/off toggle switch and connected the motor input wires directly to the T.E. Receiver/ESC motor/load output terminal strip. 

At one point I had only the traction battery running all and the psoriatic operation was noted, I reasoned the problem maybe a common power source, NOT; same results were garnered thereafter with the additional isolated sound system battery wired in. 

I’m going to pull and test it again on the bench later tonight with regulated dual output power supply and see what happens. 

Thanks again for your thoughts, 
Michael


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Michael, when you ran the Sierra board with the 27 MHz TE, did you have the receiver in PWM mode or linear mode?? I ran a bunch of Sierra boards with that TE, but I always had to have it in linear mode. The problem with the Revolution TE is that it does not operate in linear mode, but only PWM mode. My observation was that the Sierra board could not read the pulse width mode. As soon as I applied any voltage increase to the engine the sound immediately went to high speed.

Ed


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Ed, 

I have the 5490 mini onboard RX, I updated my previous post which mentioned the 5470 by mistake. I believe your right the 5490 can be switched 
back and fourth from PWC Linear mode. That said as you likely know the 5490 does not have this capabilty. 

Thanks, 
Michael


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Yup, understand your problem, Michael.

Ed


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I always thought the original mini on board receiver was pwm only. Just like the 75 MHz system and the REVO. 
It was only the trackside that was switchable between PWM and linear. 

Like most PWM systems the N channel power FET(s) switch a positive voltage to ground. The (+) voltage of the motor outputs always go to the motors before being switched to ground via the FET(s). That means if you power the Sierra with the traction batteries and use the motor reference terminals to read the motor voltage the sound system sees that (+) voltage and ramps up. 
Hence you need an opto isolator so the sound system does not see that + voltage. 
If you do not use the traction batteries to power the Sierra, but rather connect the motor ouputs to the Sierra track pick up terminals and leave the Sierra battery in place, you do not need an opto. The Sierra sound system will ramp up and down correctly. However, you must use separate relay type triggers to activate the sound functions as there will be no common ground. 
How do I know. 
I have been making what AristoCraft have just come out with ever since Sierra became available.


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Michael, hopefully you have everything working with your TE and Sierra. I thought I would post my experience. I just won an auction on Ebay for an NW-2. Turns out it had a Sierra sound card in it, don't think seller realized. I didn't want to buy something I could easily make. To make a long story short, for about $5.00 in parts I made an interface board. Here is a picture.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Russ, 

I haven't decided what to do yet, BUT your simple yet eloquent answer is great! Please share the parts list and schematic with us… 

Michael


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Here is a schematic and parts list in PDF: 
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/rmcintir/Sierra_Interface_Board.pdf 

I didn't count shrink tube, wire and solder in the price. Also, I used the NW-2's existing heat sink as I don't use the smoke unit. If you're using with track power you will need a bridge rectifier and large cap for power input. I don't know if they can be made to fit on the board.


Setting the Sierra board to high voltage sensitivity gives me an appropriate range for the speed notches. It does require adjusting the bell voltage to match. There are more complex circuits that will smooth the output but I tried this first and it worked well with my RC system. I would need to make a circuit board for the more complex smoothing circuit. Since the sound board was essentially free in the NW-2 its performance FAR exceeds my expectations!


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks Russ, it works great......

Michael


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Very happy it worked for you! I love my little NW-2 with the conversion. It runs, sounds and looks great. I set up the Mars light on the front with Sierra. You can see the resistor off the sound card for the LED as I was testing it in the picture above.


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## bobkat (Dec 5, 2008)

I apologize if this is a dumb question - I just could not find it in the forum.
I just purchased an Aristo FA1-FB1-FA1 consist ( the model is year 2008)
I notice that there is a speaker installed in the FA1 , but no switch to activate it. Am I missing something or is this the regular setup and I need to get a sound decoder to make it all work.
I have just installed the Aristo Revolution - it works great.
The speaker appears to be wired - just nothing happens. 

And lastly, what is the reccomendation for a low cost but dependable sound card - if needed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The Aristo board only controls the motor. You need an additional sound board. 

I'm sure people will chime in on recommendations, this is a FAQ and many threads on this if you search. 

I'm just too busy to retype it all today, sorry. 

Greg


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## bobkat (Dec 5, 2008)

Thanks for taking the time to reply - I appreciate it. have a good day.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Bob, look around this forum for posts on the subject, or search for "inexpensive sound", you should get dozens of hits... 

Here's one I found in 5 seconds with the search command:

*http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...spx#128485* 


Regards, Greg


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## beavercreek (Dec 12, 2008)

I have come to this thread some three years after it started!

I have some old Sierra boards that I want to use with the Aristo Revolution running DC track or battery.
I also want to use a couple of the Sierra boards with DCC decoders. (I can switch between DC and DCC on my layout).
I have three of the Aristocraft 57090 adapter boards but can't find any more of them anywhere. RCS does a similar board but their one is a little pricey as the Aristo ones that I manged to get went for only $20 (£13)

I have seen the diagrams in the thread which are a great help but I am a little confused (very easily done).
1. there are feeds into the adapter board from 'power' and 'motor'. Does this mean 'track/battery' power to one input and also power from the motor connectors to the other input? If using a DCC decoder where will the 'power' connector come from
2. I know that the battery is discarded or disconnected if battery power is used. But when running track power for Revo or DCC decoder, the Sierra backup battery is necessary to stop the Sierra from restarting if a dirty section etc is encountered. Does the small Sierra back-up battery still charge if using the adapter board?
3. does anyone have any of the Aristo 57090 adapters hanging around?

many thanks if you can help


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By beavercreek on 18 Sep 2013 03:14 AM 
I have come to this thread some three years after it started!

I have some old Sierra boards that I want to use with the Aristo Revolution running DC track or battery.
I also want to use a couple of the Sierra boards with DCC decoders. (I can switch between DC and DCC on my layout).
I have three of the Aristocraft 57090 adapter boards but can't find any more of them anywhere. RCS does a similar board but their one is a little pricey as the Aristo ones that I manged to get went for only $20 (£13)

I have seen the diagrams in the thread which are a great help but I am a little confused (very easily done).
1. there are feeds into the adapter board from 'power' and 'motor'. Does this mean 'track/battery' power to one input and also power from the motor connectors to the other input? If using a DCC decoder where will the 'power' connector come from
2. I know that the battery is discarded or disconnected if battery power is used. But when running track power for Revo or DCC decoder, the Sierra backup battery is necessary to stop the Sierra from restarting if a dirty section etc is encountered. Does the small Sierra back-up battery still charge if using the adapter board?
3. does anyone have any of the Aristo 57090 adapters hanging around?

many thanks if you can help


I have an option for you. If your Sierra boards are *diesels* and work properly, I'll buy them from you and you can upgrade to more modern sound boards that will do both (e.g., Phoenix).

If they work properly, I'll pay $125 each and I recycle those gel batteries and replace them with supercaps, so it doesn't matter if it no longer holds a charge.

Also, I have a steam Sierra board that I will trade straight across for any Sierra diesel board that works properly.


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