# Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Loosely translated:


Märklin and "Silvergate" (LGBoA) reached an unexpected agreement today whereby all marketing and licensing rights related to LGB in the United States are now owned by Märklin effective immediately.


This opens the North-American market for Märklin to allow unrestricted sales and distribution of the LGB product.



Published in Germany by "FERPRESS - Internationale Eisenbahn-Presse-Vereinigung" 

_Völlig überraschend haben sich die beiden bisherigen Kontrahenten Märklin, Göppingen, und die amerikanische Firma "Silvergate", früher besser bekannt unter "LGB of America", geeinigt. Ab sofort gehören alle Namensrechte, Lizenzen etc., die mit LGB in den USA zu tun haben, endgültig zu Märklin. 

Damit ist der Weg nach langen vergeblichen Bemühungen für Märklin frei für einen unbeschränkten LGB-Vertrieb in Nordamerika. Dieser Überseemarkt ist für die internationale Gartenbahnszene sehr wichtig, da allein schon wegen der dortigen besseren klimatischen Verhältnisse mehr Möglichkeiten bestehen, das Modellbahnhobby auch im Freien zu betreiben. _


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

What a surprise! There is nothing posted yet on this on the Silvergate web site, http://silvergatedistributors.com . Has anyone found any more information on what happened? Did LGBoA get paid off finally or just give up? 

There was a hint recently on the LGB Family Forum that something might be happening, but who would have thought?


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

Already a nice cozy little Firestorm going on at LSC


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

Not really too much of a surprise. Look what the U.S. economy is doing...they were probably wise to settle, cut their losses and put the money to work elsewhere.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

I don't have a membership at LSC. Is there any actual information posted there? Or is it just the usual complaining about LGB?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

You don't need a membership to read posts on LSC. 

Here is the link - but not really worth reading. 

http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=9735&p=1


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Sorry, I was thinking of that other web site that charges. Thanks for the link. You are right about there not being much there. And they are not very friendly to each other. Now I remember why I never read their forums.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

I just looked at the "site that charges" 

Absolutely nothing there about the Märklin/Silvergate agreement that I could find. 

The last posts in their workshop forum are about the record attempt to get into the Guinness Book of World Records for the World's longest train. Tried the second time this past weekend and also Monday and still failed. They will try again this coming weekend.


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## Bucksco (Jan 4, 2008)

A point of fact- If there was a deal (and I don't know) it was between the current owner of the LGB of America name and Marklin. Silvergate distributors has absolutely nothing to do with it and is not connected to the situation in any way.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

I figured Silvergate had severed all its ties to LGB a while ago when the announcement to be Piko's distributor was announced. As I said elsewhere, thsi agreement just means Marklin got those US distribution and namesake rights that were so in contention not too long ago on this very forum. The fact that this annoucement didnt comeabout as the result of a protracted lawsuit says alot about where those rights must have been all along. 

Now that said I'll repeat what I said on LSC, so Marklin has the US distribution rights? Given that they have such a "huge presence" here already, I await to see what trickles across the waters to the US, and just who will distribute it, Walthers has been mentioned as already distributing thier smaller scales, as it is, with the prices so far listed in Europe, that would effectively kill LGB for me and likely many others. Way back when all this started, I channeled the ghost of the Amazing Criswell who predicted LGB would become a high priced, hard to find beautique brand, like Brawa or Kiss, Criswell still predicts this to be true...


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Jack-

I'm confused. I was under the impression that Stephan Jakob and Tony Castellano owned G45, which holds LGBoA, Silvergate Manufacturing, and Silvergate Distributors. LGBoA held the US distribution rights for LGB. LGBoA and Silvergate are separate companies, both sharing the same ownership. 
Is this still correct? (I understand you may not be able to answer, but I would appreciate a clarification.)

Best regards,
Bob


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## Bucksco (Jan 4, 2008)

Bob,

I am not intimately involved in this but as far as I know Silvergate Distributors has no affiliation to G45 or LGB of America.


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

Hi Jack- 

Thanks for the reply. 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

I am not intimately involved in this but as far as I know Silvergate Distributors has no affiliation to G45 or LGB of America. 


As hard as I find that hard to believe, I do understand that that has to be the official line if Silvergate ever hopes to negotiate with Marklin on distribution of their products. When the whole LGBoA/Silvergate split happened, I had assumed that was done to open the door for negotiations with Marklin, just as it did with Peco. As usual, time will tell....


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## Bucksco (Jan 4, 2008)

It's dangerous to "Assume" anything these days.
PIKO


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 10/15/2008 10:53 AM
.... if Silvergate ever hopes to negotiate with Marklin on distribution of their products. When the whole LGBoA/Silvergate split happened, I had assumed that was done to open the door for negotiations with Marklin, just as it did with Peco. As usual, time will tell....


It's possible to sit on one's thumbs and still open doors at Märklin. They are now on their third management team. So far, it seems to be possible to negotiate with new people every few months. Could be a good thing for N.A. distribution.


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

Cougar Rock Rail, 

You think our system is in bad shape, you need to check out Europe.. Marklin is owned by Kingsbridge Capitol who is owned by Goldman Sachs.. We just bailed out Goldman Sachs, hope there is enough trickle down money for Marklin.. Plus as Vic says they have almost no presence in the states & with Walthers as there distributor, IMHO I think they are in for a very shakie ride.. But time will tell.. 

BulletBob


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

BB, don't even get me started on Goldman Sachs and the rest of those greedy ba$%&@#d -they should all be thrown in jail as far as I'm concerned. You're right, though, for whoever takes over it's going to be a rocky ride.

As far as distribution, my preference would sure be to stick with LGBoA/Silvergate, since they have the support expertise, dealership network (with largescale experience that is) and better pricing than someone like Walthers would ever have.
In a perfect world for me, it would be:

LGB/Marklin- producing 1:22.5 RhB & other Euro narrow gauge trains only
Piko - producing standard gauge European trains only
LGBoA - producing modern N/A standard gauge prototypes like the Genesis/Amtrak cars
Silvergate - distributing all of above plus others such as Kiss

Keith


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

I disagree Walthers is great and has the money to keep stock onhand ...... 

we have been a dealer for them for 16 years with 2 orders a week and the whole system works like clockwork ......

problems are fixed right away and they are always nice to talk to .........


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

I think Walthers is used to having plenty of control, especially on keeping the prices up! There is no way (I guess 'never say never') that they could sustain the kinds of markups they're used to in this day and age of the internet. A big part of why LGBoA survived as long as they did with LGB was their reputation for exemplary service, repairs and support. I can't see Walthers putting out that kind of effort, not in the repair department. Largescale is a different animal than small "easy-to-ship-back-a-problem-loco-to-the-manufacturer-and-backcharge-them" trains. Now that being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Marklin fall spell to their marketing bravado and have them fall flat on their face after a year or so when consumers get fed up with high prices and little support.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Trains West on 10/16/2008 1:41 PM
I disagree Walthers is great and has the money to keep stock onhand ...... 

we have been a dealer for them for 16 years with 2 orders a week and the whole system works like clockwork ......

problems are fixed right away and they are always nice to talk to .........




Its not the issue os service or stock that has us spooked, its the matter of price. Walthers has _*never*_ matched prices against the discount distributors like Trainworld, St Aubins or Ridge Road. It was a primary reason Walther dropped LGB from its catalog a few years ago, and if they get it again and are the sole distributor, you can kiss goodbye ever seeing low prices like at Ridge Road ever again for LGB, it will be strictly full MSRP.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

Exactly, around 2000-2002 I was privately importing H0 Preiser from Germany for less than my 20% discount for Preiser from Walthers from my local dealer....


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

I was in a local hobby shop when they got an order from Walthers. They were items that he ordered a year and a half ago that the customer no longer needed. Walthers wouldn't allow him to cancel after they didn't show up for a month when their system showed they were in stock, and lastly he had to pay COD! 
LAO


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Road Foreman on 10/16/2008 1:08 PM
Cougar Rock Rail, 

You think our system is in bad shape, you need to check out Europe.. Marklin is owned by Kingsbridge Capitol who is owned by Goldman Sachs.. We just bailed out Goldman Sachs, hope there is enough trickle down money for Marklin.. Plus as Vic says they have almost no presence in the states & with Walthers as there distributor, IMHO I think they are in for a very shakie ride.. But time will tell.. 

BulletBob



BB -

News to me that Kingsbridge Capital is owned by Goldman Sachs - who told you that?


As far as I know Kingsbridge Capital is part of the Hardt Group headquartered in Austria -


http://www.hardtgroup.com/investment/private_equity.php

Regards, Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Still haven't figured out how to reply properly with a quote.

Any suggestions from anyone?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 10:05 PM
Still haven't figured out how to reply properly with a quote.

Any suggestions from anyone? 




1.Click on the Quote link just above the missive you want to quote.
2.Wait for the screen to settle down and show the quote in the text box.
3. Click anywhere in the text box.
4. Hold down the "Ctrl" key and type the "End" key to put the insertion cursor at the bottom of the text, below and outside of the HTML tags that define the quote.
5. Type what you want.

If you make sure you are clicking way below the quoted text then you don't need to do step 4

Instead of step 4 you can also hold down the "Down Arrow" key until the insertion cursor stops moving down the screen (and possibly the text scrolling up, if the quoted text is longer than the text edit box). This accomplishes the same thing.

The whole idea is to start typing OUTSIDE of the space occupied by the quoted text... and DO NOT get there by pressing the "ENTER" key.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 10/16/2008 10:24 PM
Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 10:05 PM
Still haven't figured out how to reply properly with a quote.

Any suggestions from anyone? 




1.Click on the Quote link just above the missive you want to quote.
2.Wait for the screen to settle down and show the quote in the text box.
3. Click anywhere in the text box.
4. Hold down the "Ctrl" key and type the "End" key to put the insertion cursor at the bottom of the text, below and outside of the HTML tags that define the quote.
5. Type what you want.

If you make sure you are clicking way below the quoted text then you don't need to do step 4

Instead of step 4 you can also hold down the "Down Arrow" key until the insertion cursor stops moving down the screen (and possibly the text scrolling up, if the quoted text is longer than the text edit box). This accomplishes the same thing.

The whole idea is to start typing OUTSIDE of the space occupied by the quoted text... and DO NOT get there by pressing the "


The problem is that there are no HTML tags with my browser that define the quote.
Im using the "Ctrl End" you suggested - I'll guess I have to 'submit' to see if this works


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Didn't work -

Well, I guess mls will fix their web site one of these days - I'll just have to wait.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 10:37 PM
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 10/16/2008 10:24 PM
Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 10:05 PM
Still haven't figured out how to reply properly with a quote.

Any suggestions from anyone? 




1.Click on the Quote link just above the missive you want to quote.
2.Wait for the screen to settle down and show the quote in the text box.
3. Click anywhere in the text box.
4. Hold down the "Ctrl" key and type the "End" key to put the insertion cursor at the bottom of the text, below and outside of the HTML tags that define the quote.
5. Type what you want.

If you make sure you are clicking way below the quoted text then you don't need to do step 4

Instead of step 4 you can also hold down the "Down Arrow" key until the insertion cursor stops moving down the screen (and possibly the text scrolling up, if the quoted text is longer than the text edit box). This accomplishes the same thing.

The whole idea is to start typing OUTSIDE of the space occupied by the quoted text... and DO NOT get there by pressing the "


The problem is that there are no HTML tags with my browser that define the quote.
Im using the "Ctrl End" you suggested - I'll guess I have to 'submit' to see if this works







AIN'T THAT THE PITS!

Hmmmmm.... 

HTML drives me nutz (didn't have far to go), or I'd suggest that you click the "HTML" link at the bottom of the edit window to see what you see...of course I can't see what you see since I can't see your computer. I gotta study it a while.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 10/16/2008 10:24 PM
Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 10:05 PM
Still haven't figured out how to reply properly with a quote.

Any suggestions from anyone? 




1.Click on the Quote link just above the missive you want to quote.
2.Wait for the screen to settle down and show the quote in the text box.
3. Click anywhere in the text box.
4. Hold down the "Ctrl" key and type the "End" key to put the insertion cursor at the bottom of the text, below and outside of the HTML tags that define the quote.
5. Type what you want.

If you make sure you are clicking way below the quoted text then you don't need to do step 4

Instead of step 4 you can also hold down the "Down Arrow" key until the insertion cursor stops moving down the screen (and possibly the text scrolling up, if the quoted text is longer than the text edit box). This accomplishes the same thing.

The whole idea is to start typing OUTSIDE of the space occupied by the quoted text... and DO NOT get there by pressing the "ENTER" key.



Just trying to edit my missive to see why your quote of my text lost the last two words of my last line.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 10/16/2008 10:42 PM


Just trying to edit my missive to see why your quote of my text lost the last two words of my last line.





Aha - I bet you this works !!!!


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 11:11 PM
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 10/16/2008 10:42 PM


Just trying to edit my missive to see why your quote of my text lost the last two words of my last line.





Aha - I bet you this works !!!!




And this one as well.........

I don't get HTML tags, but when I select 'quote' from some previous post, another box shows up next to the Normal - HTML and Preview boxes.
If I just move my cursor over that last box on the right, I get a blue background in the text field that must define the size of the quote area.

If I move my cursor below that and type, I'm outside the "box" when I post.

Now if the software was fixed so that this blue background appeared automatically - that would really help.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 11:15 PM
Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 11:11 PM
Posted By Semper Vaporo on 10/16/2008 10:42 PM


Just trying to edit my missive to see why your quote of my text lost the last two words of my last line.





Aha - I bet you this works !!!!




And this one as well.........

I don't get HTML tags, but when I select 'quote' from some previous post, another box shows up next to the Normal - HTML and Preview boxes.
If I just move my cursor over that last box on the right, I get a blue background in the text field that must define the size of the quote area.

If I move my cursor below that and type, I'm outside the "box" when I post.

Now if the software was fixed so that this blue background appeared automatically - that would really help.




Well, I guess I gets to learn sompthin' new ever' day (unfortunately I have missed more than just a few days here and there). Never saw that box there before and thus, never saw what it did.

BUT, still, using "Ctrl-End" SHOULD have done it for you.

Like I always say,

Computers are neither smart nor dumb;
They arer just plain MEAN!


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

i too am concerned over walthers- 

they have always been full retail and thats just more than i will spend 

add to this what i expect to be marklin's 'generous' pricing 

service and parts issues 

and the economy 

ill be thinking i have what i can afford 

i remember well in 2000 or so looking at the walthers catalog and seeing lgb retail prices and just not being able to see the reason to it-all you have to do now is take a look at the lgb prices on the silvergate site (if they are still selling past lgb stock) for sticker shock


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 11:15 PM

I don't get HTML tags, but when I select 'quote' from some previous post, another box shows up next to the Normal - HTML and Preview boxes.
If I just move my cursor over that last box on the right, I get a blue background in the text field that must define the size of the quote area.

If I move my cursor below that and type, I'm outside the "box" when I post.

Knut

The element tags that you are speaking of, which are displayed to the right of the View Mode buttons (i.e. Normal, HTML, & Preview). Depend on the current location of the insertion point cursor (i.e. the flashing vertical line).

When you quote a members reply and the editor screen displays, the focus isn't located in the content area (i.e. text area) of the editor. Even so, down in the lower-left of the editor's box just to the right of the view mode buttons you'll see < div.NTForums_Quote> element tag displayed. As you have discovered if you hover the mouse over this tag it will highlight the area within the content area that, that HTML element has control. If you then move the insertion point outside that highlighted area, then the text of your reply will not be included within the quote area.

If you move the insertion point cursor to a line in the quoted reply below the Posted By[/i] line you'll see two element tags displayed e.g. < div.NTForums_Quote> & < div>. what this is showing you is that there is one tag nested within another. Hovering your mouse over the plain division tag (i.e. < div>) it will highlight just the sub-area within the outer quote tag. If you then go back and hover the mouse over the quote tag once again the whole area will be highlighted.

You have to remember that the editor is built from the ground up for editing information being or to be displayed on a web page, which requires it to create the underlying HTML to accomplish that. So while to the user it has been made to look similar MS/Word and other word processing programs. It can't operate in the same manner. If Shad enabled the complete tool bar set to display you'd have about 4 or 5 more rows of buttons displayed, and that would cause just that much more confusion. 
Shad is working on trying to get the Preview mode to accurately display the quote box that is displayed in the posted reply. Here again there limits to what he can and cannot do. There are things that only the developer of the editor's software can make changes in.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

Steve - 

Thanks for all the explanation. 

However.........I visit a fair number of forums every day to keep up to date with my various hobbies. 
Not a single site is a complex to use as this new MLS forum 

I have idea what prompted Shad to change forum software, but I find this software very "user un-friendly" specifically when trying to post...bottom line is simply that I don't in most cases. 
I have the feeling that is true for other members as well - the activity on MLS is much less than wehat it used to be. 

Knut


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## gtrainman (Jan 5, 2008)

"user un-friendly" 
I'll second that! 
And, 
I'll bet many other feel the same.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

There may well be others, but I am not counted among them. The "Ctrl-End" puts me where I wanna be and all is well.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

Back on topic - 

The official Märklin announcement: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/krs/LGB_Distribution_Announcement.pdf


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 10/17/2008 10:25 PM
Back on topic - 

The official Märklin announcement: 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/krs/LGB_Distribution_Announcement.pdf


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## Guest (Oct 18, 2008)

.







Just Kitbash......works for me. Even Pinko (correct spelling).
Toad


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## Bucksco (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

What is "Pinko"?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

A stab at Piko's DDR origins is the only thing I can think? 

Owning some DDR era Piko H0 models, I can vouch that the quality is the same as the West German/Austrian stuff of the same era.


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## Bucksco (Jan 4, 2008)

*RE: Märklin and Silvergate (LGBoA) reach agreement re US marketing rights of LGB*

I thought they only did the juvenile schoolyard name calling thing on LSC!


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By krs on 10/16/2008 10:00 PM
Posted By Road Foreman on 10/16/2008 1:08 PM
Cougar Rock Rail, 


BB -

News to me that Kingsbridge Capital is owned by Goldman Sachs - who told you that?


As far as I know Kingsbridge Capital is part of the Hardt Group headquartered in Austria -


http://www.hardtgroup.com/investment/private_equity.php

Regards, Knut 






Knut, Actually Kingsbridge not related to Goldman Sachs, but Goldman is an investor in Maerklin as well: http://www.marklin.pt/Docs/Kingsbridge_Maerklin_Press Release.pdf


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