# CB&Q O5 Build log



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I started this build while waiting for the John Wilkes drivers and shelved it when the drivers arrived.
The Chicago, Burlington and Quincy O5 was a 4-8-4 Northern style locomotive. The first six built had spoke wheels and an Elesco feedwater heater. A couple of its distingushing features are its huge cylinders and Baker valve gear.









I was able to get some fairly accurate drawings and very clear photos of #5601 shown above. Using these, I drew up scale drawings of my model









The cylinders scale down to a 7/8" bore...WOW....I am pretty sure my boiler will support this so I decided to go that way and give it a 75% cutoff for high speed operation and efficency. An RC system will allow notching the Baker gear back even further if necessary.
I start with a bar of 1-1/4" square stock and round off the lower outside of the cylinder on the router table.


















I then cut the cylinders to slightly over length on the table saw









The metal cutting blade on the saw does a fine job and only a skim cut on the lathe is needed to cut to the correct length


















I don't have a 7/8" reamer so I carefully bore the cylinders out and finish up with 600 sand paper wrapped around a dowel to remove the very fine machining marks.










The end cap and cylinder holes are made on the mill using the circle feature of the DRO. This ensures perfect alignment







.

The prototype had piston valves and I will be using slide valves. A cross port plate will give it the the proper return crank position and combination lever to complete the desired look. Extra large and deep channels are made to feed the large cylinders.









As I hadn't finished the JW chassis yet, I compared the 5/8" cylinders to the 7/8". Quite a difference !









The completed cylinder is on the right and the component parts on the left. I hadn't made the slide valve at that time as I wasn't sure of the cutoff I wanted and hadn't finished the Baker valve design.









I cleaned the shop and started back on the project yesterday and will post some more soon.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
Thanks for posting. Oh boy,oh boy wow!!!!
Noel


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Wow again Bill! Great choice of loco, those Burlington Northerns were quite something. I think one or two were painted silver to match with the stainless steel passenger equipment near the end of steam.
One technique of yours absolutely flabergasted me: Did you really mill the cylinder block on the router? I presume you machined a 45° flat off to ease the work of the router but that is still amazing. Does it harm the router tool? I wonder because I know a shop where I can get to to do things like that. 
And with the ambitious steam scratch building program I am dreaming of it would be ideal. I would like to finish my De Caso tank mikado (the one that has a Cossart valve), then do a NORD 1-5-0 P or decapod also by De Caso. And a Pennsy hyppo and a J1. so that is quite a scratch building program... I certainly would need to do that because the De Caso decapod has four cylinders in line two outside HP and two inside LP there was a special cast steel portion of the frame to go around the LP cylinders so they could be large enough. that would incur making the very complex cylinder block from scatch. Now its raining and I better get back to my mikado.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I have a variable speed 3 HP router mounted onto my heavy table saw which makes everything very stable. I probably could do it in one pass but instead I set the router height and move the fence in to make three or four light cuts.
If you look at most woodworking tools they say for wood and non-ferrous metals and the carbide tipped tools do this with ease.
On the table saw, a regular carbide blade works good but I now use the Irwin metal cutting blade which is titanium carbide and works with steel as well. It also gives a finer cut on brass. I used it to do the axle blocks and it came out better than I could have done it on the mill. I'll post those photos later.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Agreed. Is there anything to watch out for using a router on metals? Is there any reason you don't use the bit in a mill instead? The cut looks fantastic.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

looks great as always. if yer still in business in 10 years, expect an order for a RGS #20 in 1:20.3 scale!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Not sure if my mill has enough power and rigidity to make this cut plus the router is a lot easier and faster for this particular operation but I suppose it could also be done in the mill by taking off only 10 or 15 thou at a time.

Using the router on metals is about the same as on a hard wood like maple just make sure to wear eye protection

Nate
I'm not in business. This is my hobby. I only do builds on models which haven't been done before and appeal to me. I have built more trains than I have time to run so I do sell one off, or do a consignment from time to time.
Thanks


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow Bill, when you figured a smaller build between the other I wasn't thinking that! Looks like you will have Noel drooling all over his computer!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
"The happiest times are when the hands are most busy!" As the build progress for you and us (CB&Q 05) might have a few notes to exchange relative to builds. 
Certainly will follow this project.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Chuck
Although mine is an earlier model than you are doing, there will be a lot of similar parts and procedures to figure out.
Henner, Dennis and I have just about finished with the Baker design. We can send you the cad part drawings when we finish if you haven't already done yours.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice work Bill. Not trying to jump the gun, but how are you doing the drivers?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Bob
I am in the process of painting them now.
They are Walsall castings


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, I am looking forward to another of your mind boggling adventures.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

The photo above shows the rough castings after they have been turned down on my lathe. I cut the tread and flange about .020 oversize and then the tread is finished off over at Dennis' house on his big lathe with a plunge cut with this tread forming tool which is ground with a grinding wheel and a dremmel cut off blade with the tool mounted in a vise. This tool has the proper angles for the tread and flange and the radius between the two. If you don't have a sturdy lathe, Bob Sorenson shows how to do it on his current post using standard lathe tools.









This is a jig I use to drill all of the crank pin holes the same distance from the axle hole. It is a piece of axle material with a centering hole mounted in a scrap block.








First I center it in the mill









Then I move the mill over to 1/2 the cylinder stroke and center drill and the drill the hole.









Finally the with the counter weights attached and the holes drilled, they are painted.









I need to make the axle pump eccentric before I can quarter the wheels
I will be using a 12 x 18 mm bearing so I first turn the eccentric down in the three jaw and then in the independent four jaw I drill the offset hole by mounting a piece of music wire in the tail stock and adjusting the jaws till the wire doesn't wobble in the punched hole.


















The frame rails are milled on Dennis' CNC mill out of 3/16" brass stock. This will make for a sturdy frame and will add some weight over the drivers.









The flange holes are drilled and tapped on my mill using the DRO



























The axle box slots are .600 wide so we want the boxes to be .597 giving us .0015 clearance on each side for easy sliding up and down. I could cut the slots on the mill but milling a piece that long I would probably have some variation from end to end and this needs to be perfect. So I go to my old standby the table saw. The saw is perfectly aligned and the metal cutting blade has no set so the cut has a flat bottom. The .750" material will need .0765 removed from both sides. The blade height needs to be .210 to leave a .040 lip. I first take a .725 cut from each edge and then sneak up on the final dimension. It took three passes and probably less time that it to type this explanation.



















Then the blocks were cut to length on the cut off sled.









And drilled out on the mill


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm missing most of the pictures... and indulgement! What's wrong?!?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I had this in two different files and have made them both shared
Are they there now?


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

So far, the pictures remain unavailable. Each picture space has a circle with a horizontal cross bar.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bill. Been studying the drivers on the John Wilkes. Innovative.

BTW, no pics either

vr bs


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Bob
the JW drivers were all Charles' idea and Justin's machining.
I just edited the photos
hopefully you can see them now


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I can see all the photos except the one right after the line, "The flange holes are drilled and tapped on my mill using the DRO"


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Dwight
That was just a duplicate shot


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## Wesley Furman (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
I can see the photos loud and clear. Thank you for all your efforts.
Love the build.
Wesley


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill--all photos are coming in here fine.

Larry


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Thoroughly enjoying this thread as the J-W thread.

Neat trick with the piano wire!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

can can see about 3 of them the others wont show up.


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

I concur with Dwight, I now se all pics, except the one right after the line, "The flange holes are drilled and tapped on my mill using the DRO"

Bill, you really provide endulgement and inspiration! Thanks a lot! :-D


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,How sweet it is.
N


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bill. Did the drivers from Walshall's have the solid back you had to machine off to expose the spokes? I have a set of drivers for a "G1MRA Project 0-6-0" that are solid backed (from Mark Woods I think) Just wondered if your had any pointers.

Looking nice, Bob


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Bob
Yes the solid back
1. Mount in in the three jaw by the tread with the back facing out
2. Turn the back till you get through to the spokes making sure you have removed all of the solid back and the spokes look mine in the photo
3. Drill and ream the axle hole and remove from the lathe
4. Now mount the wheel on an arbor with the front side out and turn the hub and rim to size


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Bob
I forgot one step
You can't turn the hub while it is on the arbor so after you turn the rim, remove it from the arbor and mount it in the three jaw by the now turned and true rim and finish the hub


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bill. Great job on the CB&Q. Looking forward to Sacramento.

See you soon. vr bs


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
Pictures please. More pics.
N


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Bill, not to steal your thread but based on your experience, can you recommend a black paint that holds up well on these models?

Ross Schlabach


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

More photos
The wheels are ready to install. First i loctite them on one side and make sure to wipe off the excess from the inside of the wheel. i then install the axle boxes and eccentric and tape them off so the bearings don't slide over to the wet loctite during the quartering operation.









I then quarter them on the jig i made from some internet plans









This is the trailing truck I will me making









I will make it out of three 1/2" strips. I cut the upper portion out on the 12" band saw with an 1/8" blade









Then silver solder them together and clean up.









The reinforcement bars are made from annealed 1/8" square brass stock 









They are then silver soldered on using music wire clips to hold them in place.









The axle boxes are drilled on the mill









And the bearing caps are turned on the lathe.









The front will be tapered down so I drill the holes while the stock is still square.









Then the eyelashes are added and the front is shaped and the unit is bead blasted.









The wheels receive ball bearings.









A little improvision here to keep the chassis level to drill the rear truck mounting holes. the wood blocks keep it from tilting during the operation and parallels hold it in the vice









The finished rear truck









Dennis did the side rods on the CNC and I finished them up. The end side rods need to be forked and the center one cut down where they need to pivot when the wheels move up and down. I cut a slot in the band saw and then clean up the cut marks with a piece of #60 sand paper folded over and then finer paper. I file the flats on the mating part till I get a nice tight fit. No need for oil clearance here as there will be very little movement. Then on the lathe, I turn a piece of 5 mm SS to make 1/8" pins and cut a .024 wide slot for an E clip with a home made cutting tool.









Here is the back and front of the completed side rods.


















And the chassis to date.
The front trucks will be done tomorrow I just have the wheels in place to see what it looks like.
the rain let up for a little and I took the chassis outside on the 7-1/2' radius track and it clears the curves and rolls without any binding.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

OH... such jewelry... pretty, pretty, pretty.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
I cannot look at her enough !!! Thanks for posting photo update
N


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice job on the trailing truck. Amazing how brass + silver solder = casting


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Wow Bille!


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the photos Bill....great inspiration!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks guys
Funny thing happened though
The photo of the right side of 5601 shows a later style bearing cap on the front axle and the rear is out of focus.
In looking at a clearer photo of the left side one can see that both axles have the older version cap. As this was the Baldwin photo, I assume the newer version was just something they tried out.
So, I changed some things to reflect the accurate photo below.









I then blasted, primed and painted it in semi gloss black



























The rear frame extension needs to be stepped in to clear the rear truck. The drawing I had showed a very long extension but it was for a later model engine. I wasn't sure if it was correct so I didn't solder the extension on. After researching it further, I found that it was indeed 1.1" too long so I corrected that and having already checked the rear truck clearances, I was ready to make it permanent. The extensions are bolted on to the main frame with four bolts going through a 3/16" spacer. The four bolts could hold everything in place but if they were to loosen up at all, the extension could drop down. You can see in the photo below where the seams have been soldered from the other side with staybrite making the assembly as one.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
Great eye for details. As with most railroad things evolved and components changed.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I started on the boiler last night. I get the copper pipe cut to length but it is done with a big band saw that gets it pretty square but not perfect. I have this old Shop Smith which was a hand-me-down from my Father. It is a wood lathe, jig saw, table saw, shaper, vertical and horizontal drill press, grinder and disk sander among other things.Now a days, I mainly use it for grinding, buffing and polishing but the 12" disk sander comes in handy here giving me a perfectly square and smooth end. I clean up both ends and then cut to the exact length on my band saw and do a final sanding to remove the saw marks.









I cut a T in the end of the tube and after annealing it I form the firebox with a wood former and dead blow hammer.









Bronze bushings are made on the lathe and will be silver soldered in later.









I took the chassis out to the track and ran it through the sharpest turn. The pilot and trailing trucks cleared but it was a little snug at one point so I gave the drivers .010" more side clearance and it is nice and smooth now.


















This morning, I painted the cylinders and installed them to check the front pilot wheel clearance with the front cylinder cover I had to make a minor adjustment and it is good now even on the sharp curve.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

bill, PLEASE take a video of the john wilkes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

but this looks nice too


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
I am having withdrawls!!! Picture updates please.
N


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Dennis has cut out the crossheads on the CNC Mill. They need to be made in two parts to get the proper pocket for the drive rod.
The back is milled out and a plate will be silver soldered on to form the pocket.


















https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/c...PRhCO6J_iWZm92rtHTKcWAXaZopa7gkUAfgVaraDig77-









The backhead is cut to shape on the band saw and drilled out in the mill using the DRO









The crown sheet is cut on the table saw and matching stay holes are drilled in it and the boiler tube.









I only want copper or bronze where it will come in contact with the boiler water. To hold the backhead in place while silver soldering it, I tap a tapered copper pin in at the top and on the sides which are in the firebox area, I use 0-80 brass screws.









Solder rings are placed around the stays in the firebox and snippet of solder around the sides of the crown sheet, It is then lathered up with flux.









While the boiler is pickling between solder jobs, i start on the smoke box. A front is cut out of 1/4" brass sheet and then set on a mandrel to turn to the finished size and profile.


















It is then set in the lathe using the external jaws and the center is bored out.


















The stack is turned on the lathe and the flange is lathe cut and mill drilled before annealing and bending to shape. the feedwater heater slot is rough cut out on the table saw.









After repairing a few leaks, the boiler is cleaned up and ready for the burner and smokebox.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Great work Bill...I'm impressed with how quickly you were able to get that boiler together. I see you minimize your number of heats by including the various bushes when you are soldering the boiler together. 

I think with my Lawley project I've finally learned the error of my ways and will be including bushes and other bits from the beginning so they can be soldered in as the boiler comes together...I know this should speed up my future builds.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Cliff
Yes I try to do as little soldering steps as possible.
As the citric acid bath I use is mild, I usually pickle it overnight between solderings so combining the procedures speeds things up and probably lends less stress on the boiler by reducing the fireings.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
I must be missing that one photo which does not show as I see there were holes for stays on the sides but the final boiler photo does not indicate they were applied (thus no wet sides).


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

That was a deceiving photo, I just laid the crown sheet against the side to show how it matches up with the holes on the top.
The sides are dry. I have found that for the ceramic burner which directs radiant heat directly upward that wet sides do not add to the heating ability of the boiler and the wet sides make for a smaller crown sheet and less room for tubes so less or smaller tubes are used.
The wet side boilers I have done seem to steam less than the same size dry ones.
This would not apply to alcohol or coal fired boilers.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bill for the explanation. I do now see the setup in the photo and its purpose. Keep up the excellent work and posting; a pleasure to see the progress.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Bill. My withdrawals are now greatly diminished..LOL


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I spent the last couple of days working on the smokebox
I center drill and then drill out the rivet holes. I block of wood is clamped in the mill vice as a stop to keep the depth consistent







.

A strip of brass is milled lengthwise for the door profile and then a set of holes are drilled for the door dogs









Then they are cut to length with the slitting saw. A piece of music wire in one hole keeps the very small part from flying away at the end of the cut.









I had a set of trackside detail marker lights but their base wouldn't work here so I turned new ones,


















Then mounting brackets are made. The silver soldering anneals the bracket so it can be twisted and bent at the hourglass portion to fit on the smokebox.


















The dogs are soldered on to the door and hinges are made from 1/8" square stock and soldered in place. A piece of music wire is put through the hinges to keep them lined up. The wire and hinges are painted with white out to keep anything from sticking to them
I am making this with a working door but will have it bolted shut because of the headlight setup. The ceramic burner shouldn't have a problem being lit from the stack but the door is there just in case.









The headlight is turned on the lathe and the number plates are soldered on.









And finally a bell is turned on the lathe and mounting brackets are made for the headlight and bell


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh !! Be still my heart! Bill it is beautiful


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful details Bill...I particularly like your showing soldering set ups...gives me ideas for several items I'll need to fabricate for the Lawley.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Gosh Bill;

That feedwater heater looks like you could actually warm the water in it!

Beautiful work,
David Meashey


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## pickleford75 (May 3, 2012)

Excellent work Bill..... makes me want to redo the details on my mikado


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks guys
I think I may have spent more time on the smokebox than the boiler but as it is a signature feature of the engine, I wanted to get it as close as possible to the prototype.


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Bill, when I saw this photo of the front end of the O5, it reminded me how badly I want Accucraft, Aster, or somebody to build a gauge one LS version of the Southern Ps4. 

Your work is inspiring -- and it's exhausting to see how fast you develop these models. Thanks so much for sharing your progress with our group, and I for one promise not to drool on your drawings or workbench!

Ross Schlabach


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I need steps for the side of the boiler and a different one for the front of the smokebox so i am making them all at once. I start by milling out and drilling a piece of square stock.









Then I cut off the steps on the mill









Dennis has cut the Baker gear parts
Here is the cad design thet Henner, Dennis and I came up with.









And the parts being cut on the CNC mill









The Baker gear consists of several links pivoting on pins. To eliminate play in the pins, I silver solder one end of the pin to each link and peen the other end over to keep it in place but allow it to pivot.
Here I am milling .032 off one end of a link for clearance. the pin has been soldered on and I use a wood block to keep the part from bending away from the mill.









The finished pins









Another pin is soldered into the frame for the external reverse lever. It needs to be ground off smooth for inside clearance. Here you can see how using the countersink prior to soldering creates a nice ring around the pin.









Here is a shot of the inside of the gear, you can see how the soldering and peening works









The completed gear is completed and adjusted


















The steam piping is hooked up for an air test of the chassis. It runs smoothly with good torque and should be a good runner.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I installed the reverse servo this morning and shot this video.
It was not on rollers so the valve geometry was off slightly as the wheels were lower than they will be on the track or rollers but it still ran pretty good


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice smooth running even at 5 PSI. I think you have a winner. I have studied the Baker gear on my Bachmann Connie and still don't really understand it. Not sure if it is really correct. I plan to change it to Walsharts when I convert it to my Mexican engine. As usual, thanks for your great postings.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Winn
Yes the Baker is supposed to be simpler than the Walschaerts but to me it is much more complicated.
The ratio of the levers varies throughout the stroke so shorting or lengthening any one of the adjustment rods can throw it way off as the movement is much more at the ends of the stroke than in the middle so you need to really keep everything perfectly centered. The trick is to get it so you have equal openings for both the front and rear cylinder ports in forward and reverse. You can't just move the valve because it needs to be centered for the combination lever which is the most important part of the adjustment and the first one you make.

This is why I was happy to see it run so well in reverse.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
 I am blown away. Wow, what a machine. 
Guess what I got to run yesterday. Yup Ray's Erie Triplex. He and Jane were down to a mutual friend's house in Bel Air MD. Dan has a very lovely layout. The Erie ran like a Swiss watch.
Noel


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

While waiting on a call on my taxes, I decided to do a quick post
I need 20 stanchions for the hand rails so I will make 30 in case some don't turn out just right.
I kind of mass produce them.
First I take 1/8" brass rod and with the formed cutting tool you see just next to the chuck jaws, I cut the profile.









I then turn it around to thread it to 2-56 and cut it off with a jeweler's saw. You can just see the next one to do between the chuck jaws.










I take a piece of square stock and cut a pocket in it with a 1/8" ball end mill ( a drill bit would work also) I glue it onto the mill vice with CA










And then center up a stanchion then drill all of them out without changing anything.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
You are amazing! Got my tax bill the other day..as they say in Minnesota...UFFFDA!!!or OOFDA!!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

There was another thread here on ceramic burners and I said I would be building one here so I will go into the process and thinking behind it a little more than usual.
I first got the idea of one when I was trying to get better steam production on my Quadruplex. It had two poker burner boilers with two pokers per boiler. I had patterned it after the Cab Forward boilers assuming it would work. What I found out too late that the Cab Forwards are light on steam and since my boilers were shorter than the Cab Forwards, I had a real problem. I researched boiler design and theory and came up with the main determining factor of boiler efficiency is the heating surface. Since I only had two short tubes in my boilers they had very little heating surface. I fooled around with all kinds of burners and jets but nothing worked. I decided on a locomotive style boiler which has a firebox where the fuel is burned, and multiple flues, making for plenty of heating surface. Coal and alcohol wouldn't work on the quad because of its design so I decided to go with butane ceramic burners. There were many bench tests before I got the right system but it was worth it as these boilers are a pleasure to run.
The photo below shows the CB&Q firebox with seven flues on the left. All of this is heating surface.









There are two ceramic systems. The one Accucraft is currently using which uses a vented firebox by making the ceramic burner smaller than the firebox leaving room around it for air flow. This system requires a sealed smokebox and a blower valve, blast pipe and stack fan for starting. I experimented with this and decided the sealed firebox design was for me.
I start by making a sturdy, silver soldered burner box that just fits into the firebox.









I then turn out the jet holder tubes from 3/8" stock drilled out to 5/16" which is the od of my jets. The tubes need to create a venturi effect in order to draw enough air to have the right air/fuel mixture. 6:1 which is the same ratio used on stacks seems to be about right. So, if the id of the tube is 5/16" and the ratio needs to be 6:1 I need the tube to be 6 x 5/16 or 30/16" or 1-14/16" or 1-7/8". Anything over that will work. Here I have made the tubes so that the distance from the center of the air hole to the end of the tube is 2". I have drilled four 15/64" holes and will tap a 2-56 hole to secure the jet.









The tubes are then soldered into the box.









The box is then set in the vice and bench tested. First on low to observe the heat pattern. I didn't get a photo of the stand off's but it will normally burn hotter at the far end of the burner so some kind of obstruction at the end of the tube is needed to disperse the gas and air mixture. Here we have a nice even burn.









And then it is checked at high level and it is performing fine. This level would normally only be used for a fast steamup. It would be turned down while running









The burner box is fitted into the firebox and secured with four 2-56 screws. It will be used for the rear boiler mount also. It will be sealed around the edges with hi temp silicone later.


















The stack is set back from the front of the smokebox making it hard to get a wrench in to hook up the superheater tube. plus the fact that I am using a 3/16" SS tube which would be impossible to bend down to match the steam line so I made a right angle fitting 
The fitting on the right is the female and is silver soldered on to the 3/16" tube. The one on the left is the right angle one and is soldered on to the 5/23" copper steam line.









Here it is set in place. The exhaust tube is behind it. The cone in the center is what will make the seal.









And here is how it is attached with a nut driver through the front of the smokebox.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Bill,

Great of you to share the details . . .

You've probably covered this already, but what do you use for the firebox window?

Isinglass?

~ Joe


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Hi Joe
Its Mica
I think you can get it on eBay


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## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Bill, with the sealed firebox, how do you light the burner? Down the stack?

Ross Schlabach


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Ross
You light it the same way you would with a poker burner (Ruby type) through the smokebox door. 
On this one I will bolt the door closed and light it down the stack because of the working headlight attached to the door.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Amazing work as always. I've only recently learned about the use of cyanoacrylate for work holding. How do you get the glue off your mill wise after you're done with the stanchion fixture?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

The CA sets up in seconds but doesn't fully cure for hours so it usually just scrapes off with a scraper or razor blade. the mill vise is a very smooth surface which inhibits a strong bond. I also use the CA to glue parts together before drilling them out. If you let it get too great a bond, a little heat from the torch will soften it up enough to take things apart.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

I thought CA is just a fancy word for super glue, but is CA a different type of glue??

Great work as always Bill!!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Nope
It's super glue


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## Jeff Williams (Jan 8, 2008)

Bill, I noticed in the photo of the firebox (your 3/29/17 08:09 post) that there are no waterlegs front, sides or rear. With the ceramic burner covering most all of the firebox area, I wondered about whether the high heat causes distortion or other problems with the front, side or back surfaces. They must get screamin' hot when the burner is on.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

No Jeff
I found that the radiant heat from the ceramic burner is almost entirely directed up at the wet crown sheet. That along with the fact that the copper transmits heat up to the the water above the crown quickly, makes for a very efficient burner and the sides and backhead don't get much hotter than the rest of the boiler shell.

I made a wet firebox for my Heisler and even though it steams good, it doesn't do as well as the dry ones, probably because the burner and crown are smaller and it makes for less or smaller flues.


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## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

With the fast transfer of heat due to the copper properties it is quickly cooled by the rest of the boiler. It may seem odd to refer to it as being cooled, but in a nuclear reactor the water surrounding the core is called coolant, which transfers the heat to the steam generators. Don't ask me too much more since I was a sonarman up front, I considered the nukes in the back, just pushing our sonar array through the water.

Steve


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I have been doing more building than photo taking but here is where I am at.
I haven't mentioned that I am building this for Noel Crawford because he wanted it to be a surprise to his friends but I guess the cat is out of the bag. So, it is time for a little history. Noel got an Aster S2 boiler cover and cab that we will be using on this build. The size and general shape of the part will work and it will save some time. I had the parts before I started so I just built the boiler to fit the wrap.
Here is what it looks like. It will be painted black.









The front buffer appears to be of a hollow box construction so I did the same bending the front around to a similar radius of the prototype and silver soldering the top on.
The vertical straps are for the cow catcher









The straps for the pilot need to be .085" wide so I need to cut them on my cross cutting table. The pieces are held in place with the pencil erasure so it gets cut instead of my finger









The straps are attached to the upper cross bar with rivets and it is then turned over and silver soldered.









The bottom cross bracket is the hardest and I didn't get any photos of it. Everything isn't as perfect as I would have liked but I guess some of the shop built pilots had some flaws too. Steps and a coupler pocket are added.









The running board is tapered to conform to the tapered boiler. I cut the profile on the table saw and finish with the 1" belt sander.


















The firebox sides are embossed with two different size rivets.









The air piping is extensive on both sides of the loco so I am mass producing the brackets . I need two, three and four pipe brackets so I mill the 1/16" slots at .160 apart and then while still in the mill drill the mount holes. I will then cut them off on the table saw.


















We will have a four tone whistle setup. The air tanks work for this purpose. The length of the tanks is to scale but the different lengths of the end plugs is used to get equal length steps for the tones.









The working end of the whistle has a .025" deep slot cut in it for the air flow to enter the tube where the open slot is.









And here they are assembled. They are secured with JB Quick a 300 degree adhesive.









The whistles are facing down as not to be seen in the running position. The boiler is on its side in this photo and the chassis is behind it.










Here is the lower left side which is almost finished.


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Coming together nicely Bill. I know Noel was as excited as a kid anticipating Christmas when I spoke with him at the ECLS show a week ago...could hardly contain himself looking forward to the completion of his engine!


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
I am at a loss for words. Unusual for me. How close are we to Christmas??
Noel


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

livesteam5629 said:


> Bill,
> I am at a loss for words. Unusual for me. How close are we to Christmas??
> Noel


I too am amazed by what Bill accomplishes.

Bill can do more in a day than I can seem to get done in months.

And he can do more things than I can do as well . . . 

A pleasure to watch metal bits turn into works of art.

~ Joe


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I've been busy since my last post
I finished the rt side lower but forgot to take photos before I took it apart for painting
I have actually more photos than I can get into one posting so I will do this in two postings with the second one later today or tomorrow

here are the four whistles mounted and plumed.









Here is the start of the front steps. I cut four strips and get draw the angle made by holding the strips so they hit the pilot and running board at the right angle. I then mark where the steps and slots will go.
I drill the holes with the DRO that I use to start the end mill for the slots. My end mill wobbles a bit then I try to start it so drilling a hole first makes for a cleaner cut.









I can then mill out the slots









I silver solder the bottom step on first. After that, I can fit the remainder of the steps in place and hold them at the right angle with the straight pins as in the bottom step photo









The hand rails are just hanging out for someone to bend them so I am using music wire for them as it is much stronger than steel. I silver solder them on.


















The sand dome is oval shaped and is setting on the tapered part of the boiler so it is a little harder than most.
I start with a piece of card stock and cut it to the approximate shape of the side and set it on the boiler. Then with a pencil. I mark it all of the way around laying the pencil flat to get a 1/8" spacing.









I then set it on the boiler again and fill in any spaces with masking tape and cut any high points.









from this pattern, I cut a strip of brass, anneal it and silver solder the ends together. A deep well socket fits just right to get the curves I want.









Here is the side next to the pattern I used









Finally, I sand the bottom down on the 3" spindle sander

















I cut the top oversize and silver solder it from the inside. I then trim it on the band saw and finish it on the belt sander.









The top is domed so I do that with bondo after I cut out and solder on the base and the pipe outlets.









I add a couple of dome caps and start the steam dome by cutting the boiler radius on the bottom with the fly cutter on the mill.









The sand dome is primed an the steam dome is turned on the lathe. It slips down over the actual steam dome which has an o-ring which holds it in place.









Finally, the pilot is painted









I will be making fittings today and will probably paint the boiler tonight.


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

As always Bill, this is a fascinating saga, thanks for showing us all these shop secrets, this is very encouraging for us all who want to get on with building your own.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

the S2 boiler has a lot of holes that didn't match the O5 so I patched them with JB Weld and sanded things down for painting.









The steam generator is non working but will have a steam plume. The equipment box gets two piano hinges and some large pipes.



















A dummy clack valve is positioned per the prototype.









The smokebox gets a coat of paint.









I painted the boiler last night and assembled some of the parts to check the look.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
My heart is pounding. More pictures please


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Why is it when I try to make something like that, it looks like something "I MADE"... I am jealous of your talents. Very nice work!


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## Skeeterweazel (Feb 11, 2014)

Can't wait to see it run.
Marty


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

More photos
I worked on valves and such this week
Here is the manifold and valves for the steam generator and tender tank warmer
The valve is a 4-40 screw turned on the lathe


















this is the feedwater bypass valve the two fittings on the bottom are the feed water and the upper one is where the pressure is released and the water returns to the tank. this will be mounted on the frame at the rear of the engine.









Left to right are the pressure gauge, 6 mm sight glass, throttle, micro valves and feedwater clack valve.









The lubricator is an adjustable dead leg design









And access through the cab roof









The electrical wires were carried inside a pipe which doubled as a hand rail going over the smokebox. the pipe was the same diameter as the hand rails (1/16") I could only fit one wire inside the 1/16" tube so I am using the smokebox for the electrical ground. Here in this out of focus shot you can just make out the positive wire going to the lamp and the ground wire coming out and attached to a mounting bolt. The electrical pipe is joined to the hand rail with a 3/32" T 
I have two 3v bulbs in series which is connected to the 6v power source. The headlight is an LED which is also grounded but has a 270 ohm resistor inline on the positive wire.




























And here it is hooked up to a power source. Note the negative wire is clamped to a mount bolt to complete the circuit



















Here is the whistle valve









And the whistle and throttle valve servos in place.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Well, the engine is about done so I will be moving to the tender this week

There was a two cylinder compressor under the cab for something so i turned the heads out of 1/2" brass rod and drilled them out in a six hole pattern on the mill and installed rivets with loctite 680


















Here you can see the exhaust pipe with the steam tube fitting behind it, The inside of the smokebox is insulated with 1/8" Fiberfrax. The steel reflectors had to be cut in strips to fit because of the flat spot at the top where the water heater is. 









A steel sheet is to cover the front with a fiberfrax sheet in front of it to insulate the smokebox door.









Here you can see the cab roof, safeties, the little compressor detail and some additional piping added to the side of the firebox.









Builder plate and dummy steam pipes are added for a final detail









And the right side view


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## pickleford75 (May 3, 2012)

Just fyi that detail on the side of the firebox is not a compressor.... it is actually the cylinder heads for the stoker engine btw that is beautiful work


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

You mean to stoke the coal?
How did it work?


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

bill, sure looks great! on small suggestion though, the area under the cab behind the trailing truck loos empty. is the some kind of thing going there ( like pipes, stoker feed line(screw) pumps, ect? just think it will improve the look of the loco significantly. if not, it will still be a showstopper!

i i tried to build a locomotive like that tomorrow, it would look like a pile of trash (and explode if i fired it up LOL!.. that is if it would fire up..


again, a beutiful engine,!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
Here is a video that shows the basic operations on a small scale coal fired N&W Class A locomotive. Maybe we could install a setup like this on our N&W Class A coal fired we are doing!!

Class A Coal Fired Stoker

Particular time marker:

:56 sec Class A introduced then shows various components and operations of the stoker and system

Yes, I know at the :54 sec mark the video shows a Class Y but from what I understand the stoker system is on the Class A


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Tomahawk & Western RR said:


> ...the area under the cab behind the trailing truck loos empty. is the some kind of thing going there ( like pipes, stoker feed line(screw) pumps, ect? just think it will improve the look of the loco significantly...


Nate,
The CB&Q O5's had a very long overhang at the back end as the cab was mounted at the backhead, not around the firebox. Reference this photo: O5 overhang


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Ryan, thanks.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Very cool video
I had seen auger type stokers before but not with the driving motor hung on the engine.
I wonder if something like that would work with our radii
The world's smallest is still a lot bigger than 1/32
The reverser would probably need to be RC as it seems to jam up a lot

At least I now know what I was trying to duplicate

Nate
There is still some things to go under the cab like fuel and water lines but the hard stuff is as close to the prototype as I can get


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
More pictures please. Seeing is believing.
N


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Tender progress

The early O5 tender trucks had square holes in the frames according to the photos I have. The easiest way I know to duplicate this is to make the frame in two pieces. I draw out the shape and then make four copies and then cut them out and glue them to the brass stock. then on the small band saw with the 1/8" blade, I cut them out.









I then clean them up on the spindle sander and with a file.









I then drill the axle holes out on the mill using the DRO to make sure the distance between axles is the same.









Apiece of 1/8" square stock is silver soldered on to complete the square holes.









I then solder some detail parts on.









The tender body parts are cut out from .032" sheet stock and soldered together with Staybrite.
The axle boxes are from a casting mold I made from another project. they are attached with JB Weld 
The fuel tank pipe is set in place to judge the length. I will be working on the valves and the hand pump today. It is hard to get wheels these days. Jason doesn't have the size I need and I haven't heard back from Gary Raymond. Accucraft has some that might work so I will go over there today to see if they will work.


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
Are these going to be sprung (springs over axle boxes) ??
N


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

No just pivoting like the model


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## pickleford75 (May 3, 2012)

Looking good so far.... i am going to use that method when i build the trucks for my class J tenders


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

More tender progress
Using my metal cutting blade and a zero clearance throat on the table saw, I split a 1/16" piece of tubing to just over half size (about .040")









I then anneal it and fix it on the top of the sides with JB Weld









The hand pump is made. It is a 3/8" bore.









A mounting plate is soldered to the tender floor.









And the pump is set in place with a couple of screws to check everything out.









The rear buffer and steps are silver soldered together.









It is then soldered to the tender. A ladder is made and mounted on.
The power switch is a slide type. I make a backup light and attach it to the switch so lifting it up turns on the power for the RC & lights.









The trucks are painted and set in place.


















This is the receiving part of a home made riveter which Dennis made for me when I first got into model building. The hole on the left is where the rivet is formed and the piece is then moved to the right so that the new rivet fits into the hole on the right. I have several different distances between rivets that can be done 


















A hatch is made for the rear of the tender and the rivet embossing is finished. There will be another round hatch which will act as the gas valve knob.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I finished the tender yesterday and painted it last night.
First I had to do a job I was dreading. There are two small pipes running the length of the tender at the bottom of it. They scale out to under 1/16" so i decided to use .047" music wire as it is very stiff and would be resistant to bending if hit or picked up in that area.
The prototype had numerous brackets so I decided to go with nine. The brackets were too small to attach with screws so solder was the only alternative but I would need to do one end with silver solder and the other with Staybrite so the assembly wouldn't fall apart during the process.

I start by cutting two grooved in a small piece of stock with a 1/16" end mill. Then with my slitting saw. I cut off .080" sections









I then lay it out and silver solder the rods on to the brackets.









Then I solder the assembly on to the bottom inside of the tender.
Here are some shots of the finished combo with some of the parts just set in place.












































Today, I will hook up all of the connections between the engine and tender. I will then remove the cab and headlight for decaling and clear coat along with the tender


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Bill,
Wonderful piece of work.
With regards to the little wires at the base of the tender, I only see them on one side in the photos.
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

on the prototype they were on both sides.



Bill this is a great looking locomotive. I cant wait to see it running!!



Nate


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

They were actually only on one side


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

BUT the first photo that you sent shows it on the 'other' side!
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes
I may have goofed there. perhaps i was looking in the mirror.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

bille1906 said:


> Yes
> I may have goofed there. perhaps i was looking in the mirror.



Bill, we all make those little mistakes, dont worry!


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,I can hardly wait. Wow! Thanks for fixing the smoke box handrail. What a beauty. 
N


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

Another gret Build Bill, it will be quite some loco. Thanks for sharing with us your building techniques.
Hats off, 
Simon


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I got the decals from Stan last week and installed them and then air brushed the cab and tender with satin Minwax Polycrylic which is a water base polyurethane. I then assembled the loco for (I hope) the last time.
I made some brackets to run the wires under the tender. I have three servo and one light wire sets.









And here are some photos with the decals done.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Drool! A thing of beauty.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Semper
I should have posted the case photos before so here they are

The engine in position to roll of to the track









The two shipping bolts and the coupler are held in place at the rear of the case









The ramp is held in a slot 









And the top is put on. The total with the case is 42 pounds


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

A beautiful locomotive and carrying case. I'm glad I don't have to carry it! I continue to be astounded by the quality and quantity of your productions. Thanks for showing us lesser craftsmen how it is done.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Cool idea on locking the tender via the coupler mounting, just out of control great!

Greg


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like it's ready to ship to me! FANtastic!


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## pickleford75 (May 3, 2012)

She turned out beautifully Bill.... congratulations on another awesome build!


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bill,
I am in shock and awe. Just beautiful!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks guys
Winn
42 lbs isn't that bad. My Quadruplex is 65 lbs. I have to have two bowls of Wheaties on the days I decide to run it.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

livesteam5629 said:


> Hi Bill,
> I am in shock and awe. Just beautiful!


Me too.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Well I gave it it's first run today. I had some settling in the track over the winter and the pilot wheels came off at one place so I beefed up the spring and that did the trick. Then I put on my steel coaches to take a video but the coaches were derailing at the same spot so i had to fix the track.

Then I took the video. On the video camera you press to start and then again to stop. My timing must have been off as I got a lot of shots of the ground and my feet. I did get one of it in slow mode and a couple at about half speed. I didn't want to test it at full throttle as I was afraid it would go airborne.

I was really surprised at how smooth and powerful it is.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
Congratulations on another successful project. Always good to have had that initial test run and find that all your work was in good order and able just to enjoy the "fruits of labor."


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## clifforddward (Jan 2, 2008)

Outstanding performer Bill...I know Noel is going to love it!


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

How does the song go? " Then I saw her face and now I am a believer. I am in love with the girl.....
Oh be still my heart!
Thanks for posting Bill.
Now back to the movie again.
N


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
How does the whistle(s) sound??


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Noel
I actually forgot to try it


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Will you steam her again and blow the whistle in a video? Asking a lot I know


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Sure but not for a while
I am on my way for a weeks vacation and will probably steam it when I return.


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## placitassteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Great running locomotive, nice low speed and plenty of power for pulling a long string of cars. Thanks for the video.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

It's a good thing they're still marketing Wheaties, Bill... 

What an awesome job..... Just beautiful...


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
You back from vacation? Understand you may have gone to Hawaii.
Noel


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Noel
I'll be back tomorrow
Not Hawaii this time, just a short trip to SF


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I got back from my trip yesterday and ran the O5 to post the whistle sound. I didn't have much time so I ran it with my drag car which has the equivalent drag of about 20 - 1/32 freight cars. For me it is hard to take a video and work the RC at the same time so there is a little shaking.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Awesome.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

Sounds good! am i the only one that thinks it sounds like those lionel postwar air whistles?


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
I would love to see a video of my engine pulling the JW cars.
Noel


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Here you go Noel


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## livesteam5629 (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
Thank you very much
Noel


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