# Building a Dry Well for Veggie garden?



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Im attempting to build a vegetable garden in the side yard..
but we have really lousy soil..
its pretty much pure clay..

I built a raised bed, (to get the garden level higher than the surrounding yard)
over the years we plan to mound the soil ever higher..but right now its not very high..
we are slowly improving the soil by dumping in better soil, and mixing in lots of leaf mulch.. 

but this is only the second year of the garden in this location..its still not as high as we would like.. 


we have had a lot of rain over the last week..and the garden is currently a mud pit..
small plants, recently planted, whose roots are only a few inches deep, are literally sitting in 100% water saturated mud.. 

im wondering if a dry well, at the lowest point, might help drain off some of the water?

I just did some googling about building a dry well..and some sites mention doing the "perc test" to see how well the water drains..
they said you want sandy/gravely soil for a sucessful dry well..clay soil isnt so good, because it doesnt perc fast enough..
they say if you have clay soil, a dry well wont work, because the soil doesnt drain fast enough..

well..the reason I want to try a dry well, is *because* of the clay soil!  


but those sites are also talking about building a dry well for your house's downspouts!
im not trying to get rid of that much water..
I only want to drain water from the garden itself..nowhere else..

and the house downspouts are not part of the equation..
its only rain water falling on the garden that is making it muddy..

Im considering sinking something like a 5 gallon bucket, with holes, and weed cloth wrapped around it..(to prevent soil from getting in..
some gravel in the bottom..covered by a slab..
or one of those pre-fab dry wells, which would be larger...maybe 5-20 gallon capacity..

any suggestions/thoughts?

here is a photo of the garden..its about 25 X 25 feet:










In that photo, the right downspout is shown draining into a tub (to collect rain water for my carnivorous plants)
then draining out *near* the edge of the garden..that downspot is now moved and it drains well off to the side..
the left downspout has already been moved so that it drains into the front yard..

last summer we also had problems with this garden..because BOTH house downspouts drained right into this side yard..
now both downspouts are diverted..but its STILL far too wet..after only 3 thunderstorms over the last week..

any ideas are welcome!  


thanks!
Scot


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## Tom Bowdler (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Scot, 
Yup, lots of water last night with more temporary lakes even water running over the road in areas I have never seen it. Fortunately my newly constructed garden beds are high and dry despite being at the bottom of a slope. I built four of them 4'x4' with a square of 2x10 topped with a square of 2x4 and a seat/top of 1x6 deck boards. They are fillled with a mix of soil, leaf mulch, wood mulch and potting soil. Reading the book "Cubed Foot Gardening" I have intensively planted them and can't believe I still have room for more plants. 
This afternoon when the weather changed I dug up some silo blocks buried behind our place who knows how many years ago. My plan is to excavate a ditch about a foot wide and deep at the bottom of the slope approaching the garden, fill the ditch with gravel edged with the silo blocks and plant some ground covers in the block holes. I will then excavate the space between the garden boxes and fill it with gravel then some pavers on top. My goal is not only to stem the potential floods but make it look good in the process. 
Looking at your down spouts I would suggest diverting the water even farther to the sides away from the garden. Down spout material is relatively cheap and once you get the lay of the land it should be easy to determine where to put them. Another suggestion would be smaller individual boxes rather than your large garden area that are deeper so drainage is less of a concern. I know you are still a young guy vs me but sitting on the seat on the edge of the bed to weed, prune and harvest sure beats bending over. As you know I'm building a raised railway for the same reason. 
Hope this helps. You and Deb are welcome to come visit, 
Tom


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## White Deer RR (May 15, 2009)

I too have clay soil, and you're right, it doesn't percolate much at all. A nearby homeowner had true "French drains" put in, ie, holes filled with gravel and covered with a grate. The next owner had to connect them to pipes and run them to the street, because once the holes fill up with water, a French drain isn't going to do much good in clay. I've read that eventually a French drain will clog up anyhow over time.

Right now the end of our "dry wash," which actually helps drain our little railroad layout, is full of about three inches of water and I know from experience it won't soak in/evaporate until it quits raining for at least a day. (But it looks kind of cool because the track goes over it on a couple of trestle bents.) Threw down some "river stones" so the dog enjoys it less.

I'd have to agree with above poster that one of your best options, if you can't have the water go to pipes and empty somewhere, would be to build the beds higher. Some gravel on the bottom layer might help somewhat.

I once met a guy with a truly awful drainage problem in his yard who resorted to putting in catch basins and a sump pump. Every now and then I swear I am going to do that on one side of my yard and send the water to a small pond. Probably not the solution you are looking for, but hey, lots of things are possible with enough time and or money. Best wishes on your project!


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Tom and WD.. 
unfortunately I cant move the water "away", there is nowhere for it to be moved to..the only place it can go is straight down.. 
so im thinking a small dry well might help to "collect" some of the water deeper into the ground.. 
then it can slowly drain into the ground at 3 feet deep rather than 3 inches deep.. 
I dont know..I guess I will just have to try it and see! 


Scot


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot, 
How deep is the clay? Where we camp north of Pittsburg we dig two sump hols one for the kitchen sink we set up and one underneth the shower grate. The first few feet are clay and once we get slitghtly below 3 feet we hit a layer of sand that "percs" pretty well. now and then we need to re-dig the sump hole but that's because all teh soap and such will clog the sump a bit and slow the perc down. this isn't too different thatn what you are trying to do. The big issue is to find the bottom of the clay layer in your area. then you can plan your drainage. Keep in mind it WILL as has been mentioned need maintenance from time to time. French drains need cleaned out and so do dry wells and sumps. 

Chas


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Chas, 
I dont know how deep it is! 
I have never tried to get to the bottom of it.. 
I just assumed it would be VERY deep..but I dont know.. 
I recently dug out a small pond, so I know the clay is at least 18" to 24" deep..but thats as far down as I have gone.. 
maybe I can try 3 or 4 feet! see what that looks like.. 
thanks for the tip! it never occured to me I could actually dig *under* the clay layer.. 

Scot


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

At Cooper's Lake where we camp the sand layer under the clay is only a few inches thick in spots and is at least 3 feet deep. Totally different than my area in W Ny and your's BUT worth a shot. A little hard work with the post hole diggers will yeild some results. IF you cannot dig below it wil those you likely don't want to bother with that route. 

Chas


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## White Deer RR (May 15, 2009)

A thought I just had is you can Google something like "state name" + "soil types." States and universities have all sorts of stuff on the interwebs. Like average seasonal high water tables and stuff. Anyhow, I think you're on the right track and since you appear to be in the Midwest, ie thunder storms are more common, three feet might just do the trick. As opposed to the Pacific Northwest, where high tide in my yard is at 3:59 today, with swells of 6 inches. ;-) Should have taken up model ships.


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## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

Hey, Scot...try your local public library for the Monroe County Soil Survey. Try for an old one; when areas get built up, soil info is dropped for them. I believe it's also available from the Cornell Cooperative Extension on CD. Good luck!
SandyR


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks everyone! 

Sandy, 
I found the Monroe county soil map awhile ago: 

http://www.monroecounty.gov/Image/Generalized_Soils 2008.pdf 

we are firmly in the "clay belt"..so this is most definitely our native soil..its natural!  
its strange to see how many different types there are in such a short area! 
Deb's garden in Greece was PURE SAND! only 10 miles from here.. an ancient Lake Ontario beach.. 
You are in the same belt as Greece, "Soils Formed in Gravelly or Sandy Glacial Water Deposits" belt..sounds nice! 
I would love to have a little sand down here.. 

But still, even our clay is better than my parents southern tier rocky soil.. 
I have been digging out a hole for the pond..the clay digs nice and easy! 
virtually no rocks..so thats one benefit anyway.. 

Scot


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## White Deer RR (May 15, 2009)

I stand corrected about the Midwest. Fascinating geology there for you, not that I know much at all about it.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah but how deep is it Scot? Too deep to bother digging thru it? 

Chas


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I think I'd rent a power auger and drill a bore to find sand. Then you can decide if you want to dig as deep as necessary for your well box... 

John


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

For that sq footage, you will need something like a 55 gal drum to handle the run off, and it will take a lot longer to clog than a 5 gal bucket. Dig a hole much bigger than the drum, set the drum and fill in and around the drum with round rock, screen the input to keep out leaves etc, and cover with something that will take weight and not rot....


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What about a cheap Sump Pump in a 5 gal bucket from Home Depot.....They come with a Garden Hose adapter. Put that in the bucket and run the hose to some where else. Use in only when you need to drain the area. Then remove the hose when not in use.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 10 Jun 2010 10:10 AM 
What about a cheap Sump Pump in a 5 gal bucket from Home Depot.....They come with a Garden Hose adapter. Put that in the bucket and run the hose to some where else. Use in only when you need to drain the area. Then remove the hose when not in use. 




John,
thats a good idea..except I have no "somewhere else" to run the water..
my only option to get the water out of the first 6" of soil is that the water has to go straight down..it cant go sideways..

this weekend im planning to do some digging..see if I can hit the bottom of the clay layer..

thanks,
Scot


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## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

It's supposed to be hot and muggy on Saturday...please let us know how you make out!! I wonder if a 30" high raised bed wouldn't be easier? 
SandyR


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