# Accucraft Procedure to build Loco's



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Curious if someone from Accucraft can fill us in on the requirements of how a locomotive works it way up from 'Under Consideration' all the way up to 'In Production'. 
I am not questioning the lists on the site or your business practices, just wondering how a project works it way up the ladder to production. 
I know there are many variables and changes, and many of us have hopes for certain locomotives, just a possible over view. 
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not Accucraft but.

If people show interest in a particular project then I would think it would go forward. If you’re interested in something they have mentioned, let them know. Accucraft does not ask for a commitment just for people to show interest. The bigger the project the more people have to be interested.If no one showed interest would you build it? Gone are the days people build things on spec.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Accucraft does not ask for a commitment just for people to show interest


 Dan,
I'm not sure about that. "Showing Interest" used to mean putting down a $300 deposit.

The recent posts by the Marketing Director (Robert Sarberenyi) suggest that we 'show interest' in a particular model. 
See his thread: http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/41201-reserving-locomotives-you-want.html Robert states "_we strongly urge you to place your reservations now! Remember, deposits are not required! Models are built *only* to the quantities of pre-orders received!"_

The Accucraft eStore wants "pre-orders" - are they a show of interest, or a firm deposit ? Guess I will go try and see what happens.
Edit: So I tried pre-odering a loco on the eStore, and got asked for a credit card for the full amount. I assume they don't charge me until the model turns up?

So can someone enlighten us? What exactly do we do to 'show interest' ?


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Then there's the models on the "under consideration" list that aren't even on the e-store. How do we "show interest" in those?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Richard,
Just send an email to your chosen dealer, or direct to Accucraft.
As soon as they announced the possibility of the CPR Selkirk, I let my dealer know that I wanted one (NO DEPOSIT REQUIRED).
I then heard that there was not enough interest, so the project was shelved.
I have heard that there is now enough interest, so it is (dare I say it) full steam ahead.
As to when it will be produced - who knows!
So, as I said, just keep sending emails about what you would like to buy, but not to suggest something that you have no real interest in buying when they do make it - that's just not right.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Accucraft UK (Sep 16, 2013)

With Accucraft UK the process is slightly different. We are bombarded with requests for this or that model and will take heed of any groundswell behind a particular prototype. However, when we decide to proceed with a project it is on the basis that we will normally make a minimum run of 50 units in the first batch. We have never announced a project and then pulled it through lack of forward orders and to date most batches are entirely pre-sold before they are delivered to us - strength of continued demand will govern if (and how large and how soon) a second run will be made. We last took a 'punt' on the Quarry Hunslets in 7/8ths" scale, a completely untried scale and gauge combination for 'commercial' production and would have been happy to carry un-ordered stock for up to a year if need be. As it was we had to increase the initial run and then produce a second batch!

We take care to keep our finger on the pulse of the UK preservation movement to try to 'ride the wave' when a locomotive is restored to traffic, is built new or celebrates a significant anniversary. This policy helps to ensure sufficient demand and 'newsworthiness' when our models are released. The next four years will see releases of commemorative models reflecting the role of railways in WW1, initially with another run of the ever popular WD Baldwin and then further 1:19 and 1:32 scale locomotives.

Many people try to persuade us to produce models of what we would classify as 'vanity projects', especially in 1:32 scale where there seems to be an idea that 'bigger is better'. We don't hold with this and although we will make some models of larger locos (such as the forthcoming A1 'Tornado') our aim is keep producing small and medium sized machines that are affordable and capable of operating on layouts with smaller radius curves (much as Accucraft US has done with the delightful M6 2-6-0).

It is not all about locomotives either, we will also continue to expand the range of 1:19, 1:20.3 and 1:32 rolling stock with useful vehicles.

I hope this helps.

Graham.


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## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

Nick Jr said:


> Curious if someone from Accucraft can fill us in on the requirements of how a locomotive works it way up from 'Under Consideration' all the way up to 'In Production'.
> I am not questioning the lists on the site or your business practices, just wondering how a project works it way up the ladder to production.
> I know there are many variables and changes, and many of us have hopes for certain locomotives, just a possible over view.
> THANK YOU IN ADVANCE



Keep in mind I'm only one person vs. a lot more of you.  I'll address as many of the salient points raised in this thread as possible. First I'll respond to Nick's questions, then answer the others. Hopefully what follows proves helpful...

On the News page of our website, the provided description should help explain the various "stages":

"New Arrivals"
Models have arrived in our warehouse and are available for purchase (unless sold out -- i.e. the just delivered-as-of-Wednesday Australian Victorian Railways 'NA' class 2-6-2T, no more are available!). If you placed an order for a model you'll be contacted, arrangements made for payment and shipping the items to you.

"Coming Soon"
Models are currently at some stage of production at our factory. These are expected in the near term, at least within a few months.

"In Production"
Late stages of development, possibly waiting for scheduling production space on the factory floor. Engineering samples have been produced, reviewed, changes incorporated etc. Project is approved and funded.

"Under Development - Delivery to be Announced"
SKU #s have been issued, Press Release announcements made to dealers, magazines etc. Some still in data gathering stages, GOD drawings being developed or are complete. Actively seeking reservations to ascertain exact level of interest to determine production and quantities. Once reservations hit specified target, project moves ahead for full development/production.

“Models Under Consideration”
Models not yet at the SKU # phase. In some cases we’re acquiring drawings/plans... such as recently obtaining builder drawings for a passenger car project listed in this category. We certainly welcome your input/interest in these projects, however, they're not yet at the point of taking reservations.

The above is a rather simplified approach to the process. If you have further questions, please contact me. However, be advised that because of the nature of this competitive business, sometimes we cannot fully disclose/discuss our plans.

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains
33268 Central Ave.
Union City, CA 94587
Tel: 510.324.3399


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## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

Pete Thornton said:


> Dan,
> I'm not sure about that. "Showing Interest" used to mean putting down a $300 deposit.
> 
> The recent posts by the Marketing Director (Robert Sarberenyi) suggest that we 'show interest' in a particular model.
> ...



Okay, there are several ways to place reservations:

1) with an approved Accucraft dealer
2) through our E-Store
3) call us directly, we're actually easy to talk with by phone 

At the Accucraft E-Store, it does ask for credit card info, however, no charges are made. This simply collects the info so we have it available. When the models are produced and arrive in our warehouse, we contact you or your dealer and ~confirm~ you still want the model(s). With your approval we put charges through and ship the items. More information about the process is found here

http://www.accucraftestore.com/index.php?show_aux_page=3

As for showing interest in a project, placing a reservation through your dealer or us goes a LONG way to communicate that fact. It helps us prioritize and understand which models to produce next. 

Keep in mind development of live steam locomotive models costs a lot of money. Would you take the risk losing $200,000 or more if the project bombs and doesn't sell?

Regards,

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains
33268 Central Ave.
Union City, CA 94587
Tel: 510.324.3399


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## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

rwjenkins said:


> Then there's the models on the "under consideration" list that aren't even on the e-store. How do we "show interest" in those?



Those are still in the early stages and don't have a SKU # yet. That explains why they're not in the E-Store. Contact your dealer or us, let us know what you like. Believe me, we use this feedback as part of the process to determine which projects are moved forward faster.

Regards,

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains
33268 Central Ave.
Union City, CA 94587
Tel: 510.324.3399


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert,
Thank you for those clarifications.


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## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

David Leech said:


> Richard,
> Just send an email to your chosen dealer, or direct to Accucraft.
> As soon as they announced the possibility of the CPR Selkirk, I let my dealer know that I wanted one (NO DEPOSIT REQUIRED).
> I then heard that there was not enough interest, so the project was shelved.
> ...



Bingo! The number of reservations is key! Makes a ~huge~ difference in moving projects forward.

Regards,

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains
33268 Central Ave.
Union City, CA 94587
Tel: 510.324.3399


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## Westport (Nov 28, 2009)

*Live Steam 1/29th?*

Rob at Accucraft, I am, hopefully, not alone in hoping for a generic 1/29th Mikado that could be used to represent any of our favourite prototype railways rather than a specific but lovely operating K4 or proposed streamlined NYC Hudson..Such an engine could pull my otherwise diesel hauled 1/29th freight cars and would be a definite positive addition. I do not have any 1/32nd scale engines or cars and neither have the room, the money nor the desire to go into another scale in addition to the 1.20th and 1/29 cars and engines that I have. But I do think there is a market for a generic engine-perhaps a USRA Mike..I might even be able to persuade a certain D.Leech to make a Canadian all-weather metal cab for it!
Myron


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## Accucraft (Jul 30, 2014)

Accucraft UK said:


> With Accucraft UK the process is slightly different. We are bombarded with requests for this or that model and will take heed of any groundswell behind a particular prototype. However, when we decide to proceed with a project it is on the basis that we will normally make a minimum run of 50 units in the first batch. We have never announced a project and then pulled it through lack of forward orders and to date most batches are entirely pre-sold before they are delivered to us - strength of continued demand will govern if (and how large and how soon) a second run will be made. We last took a 'punt' on the Quarry Hunslets in 7/8ths" scale, a completely untried scale and gauge combination for 'commercial' production and would have been happy to carry un-ordered stock for up to a year if need be. As it was we had to increase the initial run and then produce a second batch!
> 
> We take care to keep our finger on the pulse of the UK preservation movement to try to 'ride the wave' when a locomotive is restored to traffic, is built new or celebrates a significant anniversary. This policy helps to ensure sufficient demand and 'newsworthiness' when our models are released. The next four years will see releases of commemorative models reflecting the role of railways in WW1, initially with another run of the ever popular WD Baldwin and then further 1:19 and 1:32 scale locomotives.
> 
> ...



I certainly echo what Graham posted. However, Cliff and I are both quite envious on the success Accucraft UK, Accucraft Australia (Argyle Loco), and MBV Schug (Germany) have enjoyed with their recent releases -- most have all “sold out” very quickly! Meanwhile, our U.S. warehouse still has small stocks of Pennsy T-1 class 4-4-4-4s, UP “Big Boy” 4-8-8-4s, and a few others. In this and most any product related business, healthy cash flow is crucial in providing the necessary capital to invest in new product development. The more items sitting in our warehouse means less $$$ available to invest in new models. 

Regards,

Robert Sarberenyi
Marketing Director
Accucraft Trains
33268 Central Ave.
Union City, CA 94587
Tel: 510.324.3399


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

Thank you, Graham and Robert, for de-mystifying this topic!

I'd humbly suggest that the site administrator mark this as an Informative Thread, I'm sure that this question will come up again (and again).


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert, thank you very much. Made a very good point about the money tied up on the shelf stock. Nick


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

I note that the Accucraft USA stock mentioned still sitting on the shelf are LARGE engines, of the type that Accucraft UK, Accucraft Australia (Argyle Loco), and MBV Schug (Germany) shy away from.
On that note, I've a reservation in for a 1:13 Bagnall.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I also agree, to many large engines coming out, when, like has been stated, a nice generac USRA light Mike, Baldwin 4-6-0(Common to many southern shortlines) would be a viable engine on many more garden railways. Not everybody needs or can afford, or an other large engine. Like in smaller scales, the manufactures are avoiding the engines that were dime a dozen during the golden days of steam. Light and Heavy USRA Mikadoes, USRA 0-8-0 heavy switch engines, Light Pacifics. How about a low drivered 2-8-2 like the "19" from Emperor of the North? would appeal to both logging people and folks wanting a good pulling smaller engine. If Accucraft wants to compete with Aster, then more power to ya, but that is a rapidly shrinking market chasing fewer dollers. I see smaller engines as a higher volume seller. LGB didnt think the little Frank S would sell well, yet it flew off the shelf and are now a bit hard to find in good shape. I would also recommend that Accucraft look at what thier competition is doing in regards to the ceramic bed burners that are near silent and dont seem to suffer as much in cold weather. Just my 2 cents. Mike


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Mike,
I have been suggesting for a long time that the alcohol boiler design in something like the Royal Hudson would be perfect for a ceramic type burner.
Well I guess someone listened as I understand that the Selkirk is to be offered with either alcohol or gas - same boiler, just a different tender, although easier to convert if someone need to in the future.
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Mike

2-8-2 USRA Mike - done by Aster and readily available
4-6-0 ICRR version available from Bohande
4-6-0 PRR G-5 in process from Bohande, prototype has been seen here in VA / MD
2-6-0 SP small mogul still on the shelf from Accucraft
0-6-0 SP s-12 switcher from Accucraft. seem to be readily available in the secondary market
Of course these are all 1:32... 1:29 live steam does not seem to sell as well as the Las Vegas Mouse [Fred D.] imagined it would.

Unfortunately, it IS about profit margin.. a large live steamer costs just as much to design and almost the same to build as a larger engine. However, people expect to pay LESS for a smaller engine... just because it is smaller. NOT really a realistic view.... So importers produce engines with higher profit margins.

JUST MY USUAL UNIFORMED BIASED VIEW of the universe as I see it.


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## Accucraft UK (Sep 16, 2013)

Dr Rivet said:


> Unfortunately, it IS about profit margin.. a large live steamer costs just as much to design and almost the same to build as a larger engine. However, people expect to pay LESS for a smaller engine... just because it is smaller. NOT really a realistic view.... So importers produce engines with higher profit margins.


Huh? I guess you mean "..a small live steamer costs..." Yes, a small live steamer still costs quite a lot to develop (although the complexity of bigger engines will push this figure up) but we make a judgement based on the the profitability of a batch of locos. We will never sell a huge batch of large locos but we would hope to sell proportionally more of a smaller design, in consequence the gross profit of either batch would be much the same (in fact the margin on larger locos might actually be slightly smaller to make them affordable). We try to back 'winners' as I said before and haven't had to scratch a proposed design yet. 

We also cast a jaundiced eye over any commission we are asked to do but thus far the prototypes chosen, _Sea Lion_, the IoM railcar and goods rolling stock, the Glyn Valley Tram loco and, of course, the K1, are all projects we would have been happy to undertake ourselves.

Graham.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Of course, it's easy to point out that Accucraft UK tends to go for smaller engines than their American counterparts, it's also important to remember that while something the size of a USRA Pacific (or a Southern Pacific P-8, coming eventually to an Accucraft dealer near you) would be considered relatively small compared to all the 4-8-4s and articulateds, it would be considered a BIG engine for much of Accucraft UK's market. By UK standards, the A1, A4, and Merchant Navy are all very large engines.

One thing I have noticed though, is that the UK models seem to follow a philosophy of producing beautiful, well-detailed models that are ruggedly simple in the mechanical department. While we over here are demanding things like cross-ported D valves, fully functioning valve gear, axle pumps, metering lubricators, etc. etc., over there they are merrily producing two-cylinder models of three-cylinder Pacifics with slip-eccentrics, that by all accounts run very well. My GWR 2-6-2T, beautiful engine, love it to bits, but no frills under the hood (er, bonnet); unsprung drivers, Ruby-style piston-valve reversing. And that's great, it keeps the cost down while allowing them to produce attractive, moderately-sized locomotives that run well and apparently sell well too. Of course it also helps that the generally clean lines of British locomotives mean that fewer bells and whistles (quite literally in the case of the bells) are needed to make a "well-detailed" model too.

Would that kind of philosophy work in the US market? Hard to say, the 1:29 stuff seemed to go that route, smaller prototypes (4-6-2, 0-6-0, 0-4-0), simpler mechanics, lower price point, and that seems to have been maybe not quite the success they were hoping for. I suspect, however that it might say more about the 1:29 market than it does about the AML locomotive design and pricing strategy. 1:29 as a scale seems to be more geared towards modern era modelers and those who just like to run toy trains, who simply don't have either the interest or the budget to splurge on a live steamer, even a well-detailed one that squeaks in under four digits (barely).


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

*I certainly echo what Graham posted. However, Cliff and I are both quite envious on the success Accucraft UK, Accucraft Australia (Argyle Loco), and MBV Schug (Germany) have enjoyed with their recent releases -- most have all “sold out” very quickly! Meanwhile, our U.S. warehouse still has small stocks of Pennsy T-1 class 4-4-4-4s, UP “Big Boy” 4-8-8-4s, and a few others. In this and most any product related business, healthy cash flow is crucial in providing the necessary capital to invest in new product development. The more items sitting in our warehouse means less $$$ available to invest in new models. *

At my income, products closer to $10,000 are going to be very rare purchases. That calls for saving money, and for awhile. Not only would I have to aspire to ownership of a specific locomotive, I would need to maintain that aspiration long enough to amass the savings, and not have something urgent come up in that time. And the product would still have to be available when I was able to buy it - meaning, inventory is an investment in securing a sale.

Are appropriate rolling stock available, and at a price and quality which look good and run well with the locomotive? Examples, the German BR 45 class would have a huge selection of rolling stock from Marklin's range. A Big Boy should (might?) get interest due to the restoration underway, and a modeler could create a train using period freight cars or a modern excursion train. Probably the 1:32 smoothside passenger cars are a good fit for the latter. Me, I like the H8 myself - but butane as an only option ???

Less expensive models, like the Merchant Navy or Pennsylvania 4-4-2, are closer to something I can buy and still be able to pay the credit card bill, so more likely to happen on impulse. (Impulse requires inventory.) 

I'm curious to see what the Pennsy models look like, and actual prices (both the E6 and M1.) Yes, seeing before committing to purchase. In person. At a show.


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

> the UK models seem to follow a philosophy of producing beautiful, well-detailed models that are ruggedly simple in the mechanical department


True statement for many Accucraft UK offerings, but I'd argue (gently) that my Accucraft Countess is a pretty sophisticated model -- it scales out to within fractions of a millimeter of the prototype and is loaded with detail. Best of all, it defies accepted wisdom by combining scale fidelity with flawless running. Even though I'm moving to 1:13.7 (and have a Bagnall on order), I'm keeping the Countess just because of its performance. No surprise that the most recent re-issue of this engine has sold out, and quickly.

In my view, Graham's remark on backing winners is really the key. AC UK have a well-defined, two-tier strategy and have made wise choices with well-loved prototypes for their higher-end models. I'm sure that's a bit of an over-simplified, rosy-tinted view, but they haven't put a foot wrong yet.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

JoelB said:


> In my view, Graham's remark on backing winners is really the key. AC UK have a well-defined, two-tier strategy and have made wise choices with well-loved prototypes for their higher-end models.


Oh, absolutely, I was just exploring another piece of the puzzle. What they seem to offer are the right engines at the right prices, put those things together and you get success. 

Admittedly, I'm a little guilty of generalizing in what I posted earlier, and lumping the G1M offerings into that generalization too. Not that there's anything wrong with rugged simplicity anyway. As I said, they seem to run well and the price is right, certainly nothing wrong with that!

Would that be equally applicable here? Probably not. For example, using a simplified two-cylinder mechanism for a three-cylinder Pacific seems to work in the UK market, but I'm not sure how it would fly here if Accucraft (USA) was to produce something like a UP 9000 4-12-2 or (probably more likely) a Southern Pacific "Stuttering Deck" 4-10-2, using only two cylinders instead of three, when having three cylinders is one of the things that made the prototypes unique, and the three-cylinder exhaust cadence was one of their hallmarks. For that matter, a two-cylinder Pennsy Duplex would theoretically have been possible with inside gearing between the #2 and #3 axles, and I doubt that would have been very well-received, although it could have probably shaved a pretty significant amount off the price tag. On the other hand, something like a Baldwin catalog shortline 2-8-0 or logging Mikado, following the AML engineering and pricing model but in 1:32 scale, might have mass appeal? Just a thought.


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## Accucraft UK (Sep 16, 2013)

Thank you for some of the above comments, nice to occasionally get positive feedback! We (Accucraft UK) are not afraid of big machines (think of the NGG16 and NG15) and may return to some of these designs in future. If we had a 'slow seller' it was the NG15 of which we have only, thus far, made one batch; it may be that when the WHR recommission one of theirs that we will run the model again, maybe in two variants, one with the 'Kalahari' tender, the other with the WHR tender - what do you think?

Graham.


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

The NG15's a magnificent locomotive, but it's been a bit overshadowed by the NGG16, in my opinion. First off, there are no NG15's that I know of that have been restored and are running outside of South Africa, so there's not the same visibility as the bigger engines have enjoyed in Wales. And let's face it, there's something unique and intangibly attractive about Garratts.

That said, I'd bet that part of what moved Garratt models off dealers' shelves was that they were offered in WHR liveries. If you were going to reintroduce the NG15, I'd suggest doing the same -- that is, offer one in WHR trim (to include the revised tender) at around the same time as a restored engine is being put into service. 

My two cents' worth, at any rate.


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## David Fletcher (Jan 2, 2008)

There are two really cool NG 15s in preservation in Perth WA. One is currently in working order. It is painted up in original SA colours and lettering. They even have a driving training program you can do on this loco!

David.


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

Another South African narrow gauge prototype that might have broader appeal is the NG-10 4-6-2, since there's also one of those running in Wales (Brecon Mountain Railway no. 2), dressed up in the style of a Maine narrow gauge locomotive.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

rwjenkins said:


> Another South African narrow gauge prototype that might have broader appeal is the NG-10 4-6-2, since there's also one of those running in Wales (Brecon Mountain Railway no. 2), dressed up in the style of a Maine narrow gauge locomotive.


Not to mention the replicas of the SR&RL Forney #10 and the SR&RL 2-6-2 #23 which are both being built at Brecon Mountain shops in Pant. Their engine #2, a 4-6-2 Pacific NG10 is a beautiful locomotive, restored to pristine condition. I discussed this engine with Ian Pearse a few years ago. However, he thought that there is not enough market for this model. Well, I hope he was not right. Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I would get excited about either of those Maine prototypes! Scaled for two foot track they could be 7/8th scale...number 23 would be huge...perhaps as big as anything Accucraft has built to date...it could also be scaled to fit O gauge at 1:19 which would be more reasonable. They may not have broad appeal though at least in this country, though there are a good few die hard Maine two foot fans.

In general, I am in favor of more moderate sized models...perhaps priced so more people would afford them. Less specialized, more common type of engines suitable to more different prototype railways. Smaller would also be suitable to more backyard railways. If more are built, the design and tooling can be cheaper per copy, thus the model cheaper.

Perhaps a family of moderate sized engines with inter changeable details that can be used out of the box or customized. The detailed parts can be a profit center too.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Eric, strictly speaking, they are not 2 footers. Brecon Mountain uses 1 ft 11 ³⁄₄ foot;-)!! The only reasonable models are 1:19 scale. These are large engines. I have the Forney #10 built by Gordon of Argyle fame. It is a large and heavy model in 1:19. This will be Brecon Mountain #4 in the future. Both Brecon Mountain #2 and #3 (SR&RL#23) would be huge! Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

The WW&F museum also has plans to build a Two foot gauge Baldwin Forney Replica Be fun to see these two new engines come to life!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

BigRedOne said:


> At my income, products closer to $10,000 are going to be very rare purchases. That calls for saving money, and for awhile. Not only would I have to aspire to ownership of a specific locomotive, I would need to maintain that aspiration long enough to amass the savings, and not have something urgent come up in that time.


In my house, I'd have to add the mandatory contribution to the divorce attorney fund, because I'd need one if I spent that much money on a loco. That, and be my luck Allison would get the loco in the settlement. Some roads are best left untraveled.

All kidding aside, that same thought pattern is true for most folks even looking at locos in the $2K - $4K range. These aren't small purchases. Families with school-age kids have a ton of other expenses to keep up with, and putting together that kind of money for a "toy" instead of a family vacation or something that benefits the whole family is a tough sell. And if one _was_ to pull off such a coup, the next similar purchase had better be sparkly and fit _her_ finger. 

Locos in the $1K range are a little easier to justify for those in my situation. I keep looking at the "Emma," and some of the Forney conversions that have been done. That's right up my alley! Unfortunately, it would require adding another scale, and I refer you to the above note about the need for the divorce attorney. (That, and the 1:20 stuff is taking up enough room already. A proper 1:13 train? I don't even want to _think_ about it!)

The other issue with regard to squirreling a little money away here and there for future purchases is the uncertainty of delivery. Accucraft has lots of products in various stages of development that maybe we'll see next month, maybe next year, maybe who knows? 

If I'm saving money for model "A" because it's what I really want, but model "B" comes out in the mean time and it's something I'm interested in, I have a choice to make. Do I spend my saved cash on "B" because it's actually on the shelf and I can physically take possession of it? Where am I if "A" all of a sudden comes available next? Or, do I just stay the course in the sometimes seemingly futile hope that "A" is produced, missing my chance to enjoy some other very fine models in the process?

Later,

K


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

> The other issue with regard to squirreling a little money away here and there for future purchases is the uncertainty of delivery. Accucraft has lots of products in various stages of development that maybe we'll see next month, maybe next year, maybe who knows?
> 
> If I'm saving money for model "A" because it's what I really want, but model "B" comes out in the mean time and it's something I'm interested in, I have a choice to make.


I'm in a somewhat similar position myself. I've ordered a 7/8" scale Bagnall, but yesterday I found out that the availability date has been pushed back to December 2015 (which really means some time in 2016) -- perhaps there weren't enough pre-orders and the Bagnall got pushed back in the queue, or maybe the first engineering model wasn't up to snuff and it needs to go back for a re-do.

In the meantime, there are still a few Fairymeads available. It's a very attractive model, although it wasn't my first choice and it doesn't necessarily fit with the prototype I'm modeling (mid-20th century quarry railway). But I can have it now versus waiting for the Bagnall. Can't have both, however.

I suppose if I dither long enough all the Fairymeads will sell out or 18 months will have passed, thus resolving the problem. It's the wait that get under your skin.


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

On second thought, I'll stop whining and learn to live with the wait. After all, the engineering model of the Accucraft Heisler ran at Diamondhead almost a year ago, and it's likely going to be quite a while longer before anyone takes delivery of one...


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Question for Accucraft?? Do you have a consignment program? Or maybe I named it incorrectly, where a person or company will guarantee to purchase, and of course provide a substantial deposit, for a determined amount of locomotives to be produced strictly for their sale? 
Just a possible conclusion I came to while looking at adds for certain locomotives and comparing that to the locomotives on your adds and the development schedule?


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## Accucraft UK (Sep 16, 2013)

Yes, Nick, we produce commissions for dealers, the GVT tram, Sea Lion, the IoM railcar and the proposed K1 are all examples. Check out the 'Exclusives' page of the UK website.

Graham.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Graham, thank you, that clears up the ?'s I had about the conflicts between the web site and the ads I see. I don't see an 'exclusive' category on the US website, can you direct me there?


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## Accucraft UK (Sep 16, 2013)

Nick, I am not sure the US site is set up that way. In future you will start to see a coordinated policy develop to the growing number of international businesses operating within the Accucraft 'family'. The business is growing up and growing globally!

Graham.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Graham, thank you, and glad to see Accucraft is growing.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> where a person or company will guarantee to purchase, and of course provide a substantial deposit, for a determined amount of locomotives to be produced strictly for their sale?


 Nick,
Some years ago, the Carrolwood Pacific guys commissioned a special "ruby" set up to look like the 2-4-2T Fort Wilderness locos at Disneyworld. One of their members guaranteed the initial purchase of 50 units while they collected deposits and orders.
They kept the ordering process open until the loco went in to production, and sold a total of 170+ models.

Jason Kovacs does the same thing here with his specials, like the Fairymead and the PRR E6, I guess.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, I believe the E6 is a commissioned locomotive as it isn't advertised on the Accucraft web site, but the Fairymead is still offered, which I believe he had a hand in the production of.


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

Jason's been instrumental in getting both the Mason Bogie and the Fairymead produced, both of which ended up being marketed by Accucraft as well as The Train Department. I'd bet that it may simply be a matter of time before the E6 ends up on AC's web site, too.

Jason's also looking at producing the SR&RL #6 (which later ended up on the Kennebec Central and WW&F) in 7/8n2. Now _that's_ going to be a big engine! The prototype is being restored on the preserved WW&F and could be in service next year; who knows, maybe an engineering model might see the light of day right around the same time, if the planets line up just right...


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick Jr said:


> Pete, I believe the E6 is a commissioned locomotive as it isn't advertised on the Accucraft web site, but the Fairymead is still offered, which I believe he had a hand in the production of.


 I'll bow to Jason when he replies, but I believe the 'Fairymead' wasn't put on their website until after it was "in production".

Wanna bet the E6 turns up on the website when they start production? Might as well maximize the number of units built.


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

As I told Jason... I guess the 7/8n2 market is evolving / expanding. Paul Travaskis who operated Rishon Locomotive Works produced this engine [Portland Serial 622] in 7/8n2 live steam several years ago. I think he ended up selling less than 10 locos worldwide. We know of three in the eastern US.

To put things in perspective, SR&RL #23, the largest 2 foot 2-6-2, modeled in 7/8n2, has a boiler the same size as an Accucraft 1:20.3 K-28 in both length and diameter.

A typical Maine 2 foot box car or flat in this scale is between 25 and 28 inches long and about 4.5 inches wide. Just storing the stuff can become an issue. Fortunately, one only need a few cars.

This is a whole different kettle of fish from a Fairymeade with cane cars or a Hunslet with a string of Welsh slate wagons.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete, The Fairymead didn't get added until we had a prototype. It was not a commission build but a Accucraft project, I just happen to lead the project along with David Fletcher. We are doing the same with the E6 and SRRL #6


I don't know the demand for a large SRRL loco. People say they want one but none think of the curve needed for the huge rear overhang. I was just talking to Steve King about some cars and the one combine in 7/8ths is 43" long. Who can run that other than Steve and you, Jim? Makes for a great shelf model though.


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## llynrice (Jan 2, 2008)

If you run on a layout with 20 foot diameter curves the Maine two foot equipment runs just fine. I have a Howard Garner Monson combine which I pull with my Fairymeade and that pair works just fine. I liked the combine building experience so well that I'm about to start building one of his coaches.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I stand corrected, thank you


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I run my 7/8" forney and monson esque coaches on 8 1\2foot radius curves. They do fine. 20 foot radius is nice but out of the question for most people.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I don't know the demand for a large SRRL loco. People say they want one but none think of the curve needed for the huge rear overhang. I was just talking to Steve King about some cars and the one combine in 7/8ths is 43" long. Who can run that other than Steve and you, Jim? Makes for a great shelf model though.


 I don't know either. I'd love to start 7/8n2 models of the Maine 2-footers (I've got all the EBT stuff that I can find.) But exactly how big is that Forney you are proposing ?

How about doing what Bachmann did and making it optionally a Mason Bogie, with pivoted or locked frame ? That should get round the corners.
On that same topic (Bachmann) I thought it was a shame they didn't do their Forney in 7/8ths scale, with some simple plastic rolling stock. First movers always get an advantage!


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

llynrice said:


> If you run on a layout with 20 foot diameter curves the Maine two foot equipment runs just fine. I have a Howard Garner Monson combine which I pull with my Fairymeade and that pair works just fine. I liked the combine building experience so well that I'm about to start building one of his coaches.


 Yeh but Llyn, the Monson were short cars and only about 29" in scale. I know that the car that Jack Disarro built was much longer than the Monson. I was just speaking of the SRRL cars that are almost 4' long. I know I can't run a 4' car at my house, at least not without bellows in the middle.


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