# Confused about best decoder options for LGB Stainz/tender combo



## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

I am just making a start in DCC and looking to add my first decoders to an LGB Stainz and tender combo. Both the Stainz and the tender have the Direct Decoder interface (compatible with the LGB 55021 decoder interface). The tender currently has an analog sound card with horn and whistle triggered by track magnets and chuff which varies with speed (hall sensor?). I have the Sprog 3 for CV programming and, to start with, the Sprog will also act as the command control for a small layout.

In due course I will add decoder to a small handcar and expect to acquire at least one more loco in the nearish future. Key benefits of DCC for me in this context aside from multi loco control is prototypical lights/sound/smoke.

In summary what I am after is:

1. Decoders that are easy to install (ie hopefully taking advantage of the direct decoder interface if possible)
2. DCC remote control of motor, lights and steam in the Stainz.
3. DCC remote control of motor, sound and lights in the tender. 
4. Retaining the ability to trigger the tender sounds with magnets while running on DCC.
5. No immediate need to change the sounds in the decoders other than adjust using CV (volume, controls etc)
6. Mainly for indoor use but will occasionally be used outside. 

I have been looking mainly at ESU and Massoth. From my suppliers there is basically no difference in price between the Massoth emotion XLS (Euro 140) and the LokSound XL 4.0 (Euro 135) or the Massoth emotion XL (Euro 45) and the Lokpilot XL (Euro 45). Greg mentioned the ESU LokSelect cards which look like a cheap option but I can't source them here.

Now the specific questions:

1) My reading suggests that I can order the Massoth cards with a connector that is literally plug and play with the LGB direct decoder interface. Whereas with the ESU cards I would need to work out the wiring in the manual and try to apply that to my specific engine/tender - which seems to spark lots of questions and issues on forums. Is that correct/as big a deal as it seems?
2) My main concern about a non plug and play option is reading people's experiences about shorting motors and blowing lights/smoke generators by supplying incorrect voltage/wiring. The LGB documentation I have (hard copy and online) doesn't specify what the voltage requirements are on the lights and smoke on my engine/tender. Will this be marked on the items when I disassemble them? Would the decoder installation instructions for both Massoth and ESU be comprehensive?
3) Is it better/possible get the Massoth XLS or LokSound XL 4.0 and control both the Stainz and the tender (as the tender will only ever be used with the Stainz) rather than consist two decoders?
4) Should I be looking at the Loksound/Lok Pilot HO, O cards which support motor control up to 1.1 amps and get separate (cheaper) cards for each of the Stainz and tender? Specifically it seems the cards supply 1.1 amps to the motor and 250ma each to the other functions which would seems to be plenty for a small Stainz and tender.
5) Based on my needs I cannot see any operational differences between the Massoth and the ESU cards - except that I may be able to control the volume level of every individual sound on the Massoth through CV adjustments whereas the volume of ESU auxiliary sounds (shovelling etc) can only be adjusted individually using the Lokprogrammer. 

Given the price is basically the same, am I good with either option based on my (hopefully) straight forward requirements (therefore suggesting I should get whichever is easier to install).


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The sound card in the LGB tender will always work with the reed sensors when switching over to DCC. 
Most LGB Stainz and tenders have 18 volt lights (the screw in bulbs are 18 volts, plug-in bulbs are 5 volt if flat tops, 18 volts if round tops). 
Smoke unit should be yellow/brown for 18 volt wiring, and the older complete stack is 18 volts. 
And the 1.1 amp HO limit is not enough for motor, lights and smoke. Plus check out the voltage of HO units, many are under 24 volts. 
Zimo HO decoders for one is 35 volts and they have a MX645 with an adapter with 1.8 amp rating. This decoder can control a servo also, but would not be plug and play for your LGB engines. 

The standard LGB short shaft motor has a stall current over 1 amp, and when you add lights and smoke it is more than most HO decoders can handle. 

The FRR engines have a very small motor as does the small gustav car and the HO decoders are perfect for these if they have a good voltage rating like the Zimo. 

For minimal rewiring you can use the LGB/Massoth plug-in decoders for the engine/tender combo. I do not believe you can adjust the volume of the tender with any decoder with the original LGB sound in it. 

However for more complicated engines, there are decoders that control lights and smoke and sound with the motor back emf, a feature of Zimo G scale sound/motor/light decoders (MX695/6 series) and these have 3 input sensors (bell, whistle/horn, and chuff)


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## John Power (Jan 1, 2014)

Thanks for taking the time to respond Dan. I want to be able to trigger sounds using the DCC handset. So it seems I will need to replace the existing sound card.

I have now narrowed it down to a Zimo 695 or a Uhlenbrock 77500 + compatible sound card. The plan is to use one card for the engine/tender combo and have wires connecting the tender speaker/motor/track power going from the tender to the engine.

After much reading of manuals etc I am getting comfortable that plug and play is not critical anymore.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If you go with the Zimo, you can control the LGB smoke with 3 different heat settings. 
And the 18 volt lights can be used as is and the CV60 needs to be set around 170 for the voltage for these 18 volt lights. 
Tender has room for a good sized speaker. And you could install a servo for uncoupling and bell ringing (MX695 have 4 servo outputs as well as a SUSI bus).


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