# Batteries again



## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I found 6 volt 1.3 AH batteries cheap, will they work in place of the 6 volt 500 mah for
a Phoenix sound. They are a little bigger then the original battery.
Don


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Link?


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.batteriesplus.com/produc...-W_--dot187-Terminal-DASH--DASH-PS--612F.aspx

Greg, there is another one but can't get the page to come up,
it's about the same only $13 on sale.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Original size below for $14.75 and the larger 1.2aH battery for $9.95

http://www.tnrbattery.com/ps-605w-p...-amp-hour/

http://www.tnrbattery.com/genesis-n...sys-yuasa/

Michael


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Don, We have the correct battery supplied by Phoenix.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike, you might want to put the battery on your web site, it's not there under Phoenix. 

You might have had a sale already. 

Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Will get it on this evening.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Listed with images, under Phoenix.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

very cool, and am I mistaken, but you added speakers too? 

not to derail the thread, but since it seems answered, does that oval speaker have pretty much the same dimensions as the stock oval in aristo locos? 

Tnx, Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes, speakers were added. Will get dimensions of the oval tomorrow.


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

yes, it is the exact same dimensions of the aristo original and far better quality 

Jonathan 
www.rctrains.com


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

We listed more speakers today and some dimensions. Received orders for two of them just today.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Good for you Mike! 

A little advertising never hurts! 

Greg


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 16 Aug 2013 03:38 PM 
I found 6 volt 1.3 AH batteries cheap, will they work in place of the 6 volt 500 mah for
a Phoenix sound. They are a little bigger then the original battery.
Don 
Hi Don... I've been using the 1.3 batteries for many years and certainly agree that they are superior in performance and durability. 
You do need a larger space for them but that hasn't been a problem as I have all my R/C and sound stuff in battery cars or large tenders.. 

Thanks for the links... 

All-Battery has them listed as well... 6 volt 1.2 amh


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I always thought the current Phoenix back back up battery pack was a 3 x cell NiMh cordless phone battery. 
Given each cell is nominally 1.2 volts, that makes the pack 3.6 volts. 
Are you sure you don't mean a Sierra sound back up battery which is a 6 volt Gel Cel. A 1.3 amp 6 volt battery will work just fine.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Trains on 16 Aug 2013 04:09 PM 
http://www.batteriesplus.com/produc...-W_--dot187-Terminal-DASH--DASH-PS--612F.aspx

Greg, there is another one but can't get the page to come up,
it's about the same only $13 on sale. 



Regular price is only $8 at Allelectronics. 
What about using Supercaps? I use them on my Sierra boards and they are a direct replacement. For $6, I never worry about leaving it on or charging/changing a battery anymore.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony, you are absolutely correct... I should have qualified my post by stating that I use the 6 volt 1.3 amp hour gel cell with my remaining Sierra modules...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Todd, do you know the effective "amp hours" of the supercaps? 

Clearly if a 500 mah battery was the original battery, it should not take much. 

Do you use any inrush limiting or is that in the circuit already? 

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 27 Aug 2013 04:56 PM 
Todd, do you know the effective "amp hours" of the supercaps? 

Clearly if a 500 mah battery was the original battery, it should not take much. 

Do you use any inrush limiting or is that in the circuit already? 

Greg 

I use three 6F, 2.75 volt caps in series and get ~1.5 minutes of play time before it sputters out. I made a set for a friend using 10F caps and expect ~2.5 minutes.

I use no inrush suppression nor have I needed to with the Sierra boards that I've used them on. I tried various schemes including using a limiting resistors of various values and even a diode so there is no limiting of the outflow. 
No method worked as well as simply useing the three in series to replace the battery. 

There is nothing so nice as cranking up the rail voltage and having the sound system come on without having to think about it or precharging the batteries.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony,

It's a old Phoenix sound system, it takes a 6 volt sla battery.

Stan,

I picked up a battery yesterday, and the old sound is working again,
just have to remember to keep it charged!


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Super, Don.... One advantage of the old Sierra boards is that they charged the battery while running. I've had one of the larger 6 volt gel cells installed for 4 years and it powers the sound up every time I turn it on... It ain't an engergizer but it just keeps on going and going and going.... 

Todd, very interesting input on using super caps... Could you furnish a diagram for those of us who are electronically challenged??????

Thanks....


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan,

This is a old Phoenix, it's the first one I bought. I have it in a box car to pull behind my LGB Uintah. 
The battery charges as you run, but I don't run it that much and the battery goes dead.

Don


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Real simple Stan. (AND CERTAINLY A LOT SIMPLER THAN TRYING TO POST HERE AND RECEIVING CRITICAL TIME OUT ERRORS!)

I use three supercaps rated for at least 2.75 volts. Six and 10 farad values are common and under ~$2 each on ebay in packs of 10.

Solder the leads of the three caps in series (+ to -), just as you would connect three AAA cells to make 4.5 volts. (They are actually smaller than AAA cells.) I tape the caps together to make a flat pack. Connect the open + of the "cap pack" to the + where the battery was. Connect the - from the "cap pack" to the - where the battery was. You can either leave the charging jack in place, or not, as you will never use it again.

In use, you initially need to get 8-9 volts to the rails to charge the cap pack. After it charges (takes just a few moments) you can run at lesser speeds or idle until it discharges or you bring up the voltage and recharge it. When it runs out, it may sputter a couple times before going quiet.

You may get a couple "whoops" as the cap first takes a charge but, it will no longer do the annoying "whoop, whoop, whoop" indicative of when the 6 volt battery gets too low and the rail voltage can't keep up the charge on the battery.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Todd That's great........ Simple enough....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Apparently the Phoenix "charging circuit" is robust enough to handle the initial inrush, I guess that makes sense since many people have discharged batteries and that's about the same load initially. 

Yeah, no batteries for me! 

Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Based on Greg's post, it needs to be reitterated.

I have been doing this with the Sierra SoundTraxx boards that use the 6 volt gel packs. I have not tried this with the Phoenix system. I've not had any problems with the Sierra boards. You do any other make at your own risk.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Based on Stan's experience of using a much larger (amp hour) battery in a Phoenix, and the fact that Todd was successful with the super caps in a Sierra, it can be reasoned that the Phoenix charging circuit is robust enough to use super caps. 

Simple logic, based on facts from Stan and Todd. 

Regards, Greg


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Both the Sierras in my C-16 and GP-9 with supercaps worked like a charm all day today and I'm sure will do the same tomorrow.









I had also used the 1.2 amp gel packs with the Sierras in the past. This is much nicer. I hated when the gel packs would go down and "whoop whoop whoop," and there was really nothing you could do other than shut it off because the onboard charger couldn't keep up with requirements of the 1.2 amp pack once its initial charge would wear off (assuming that I remembered to charge it).


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