# electric powered boiler units ?



## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi there:

I lost an antique ad I read on the internet showing AC current powering a live steam boiler heating element. 

Hornby presently has a low voltage system.

Does anyone know of the older systems which were once on the market? 

Norman


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Norman, 
Jensen used to make them, and I see that someone still is: 
http://www.zionantiquemall.com/page191/ 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## iceclimber (Aug 8, 2010)

I am guessing those won't do to well in inclement weather.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I can just imagine the cord rattling along behind as it trundles down the track!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually the original ones just ran house power (110 volts at that time) directly to the rails! If you put your hand on it, you very quickly learned not to do that! (Assumming you lived!) 

Was that DANGEROUS? I sorta guess that one could say so... but only as an understatement!


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## steamboatmodel (Jan 2, 2008)

I remember reading in an old magazine as a youth a set up where they were using household (120 volts) through the rails with light bulbs in series as speed control. For some reason my Mom would not let me try to duplicate it. 
Regards, 
Gerald.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

If you applied Ohm's Law to design a good circuit, ordinary track power would work fine. HO guys do that with live steamers


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Smart Mom!


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## locojim (Aug 21, 2010)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290577868370&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Sorry to be so late in answering. It was the Steam Electric Company in the 1930s.
I have one of these engines. Never found the proper transformer to make it go 


Reprint catalog on EvileBay


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...0577868370

Cheerio


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

JIm, 
How very interesting - thank you. 
'O' gauge of course as it says, and one can see how they would take a Weedon live steam locomotive and convert it, but also a Lionel electric is fascinating. 
But then to also do the same for a Lionel Standard gauge in the mid 30's makes one wonder how many they actually produced. 
Mind you, I guess as with Bednariks and others conversion of Gauge 1 electrics to live steam, if you start with something that already runs, it is perhaps not 'too much' work to convert. 
So, which engine do you have? 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

And courtesy of Wikipedia, the prototype:











Switzerland has no natural reserves of coal, but the mountainous region offers plentiful, and cheap, hydroelectricity. During the Second World War, the Swiss Federal Railways fitted several small 0-6-0 steam locomotives (used for shunting) with a pantograph, so they could use hydroelectricity as a power source. Power was taken from overhead lines (15 kV, 16.6 Hz), and fed to heating elements in the boiler, via two transformers rated together at 480 kW. These locomotives also retained capability to be fired by coal.






I believe they reverted to coal after WWII.

Have fun, David Meashey


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## locojim (Aug 21, 2010)

Greetings David,
I have a Weeden 440 style. Had to rebuild the heating element as it was corroded away. Got it to turn over on blocks using a large Lionel 200 watt transformer but it was not enough to move itself. The original transformer specs are 300 watts @ 20 amps. I also have one of the Weeden alcohol fired locos and it is a very poor runner.

I suspect that the Weeden electric locos were a real flop because the Weeden cylinders are terribly weak

Here is a linup of three Weedens. First on the right is alcohol fired, the other two are electric fired. Next pic is the emersion heater removed for restoration. The wire element is in direct contact with the water


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Hi Jim, 
Red hot wire and water - now is that a good combination????? 
Nice lineups of Weedons, you obviously look after them. 
I've seen one running at Stavers in Portland and it seemed to do okay. 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Jim:

My first attempt to reply malfuctioned.

Can you provide any further information on these locos and the manufacturing history?

Could a Jensen or Wilesco stationary boiler and cylinders be fitted to a MTH Lionel standard gauge reproduction loco ?

What is the current and voltage appiled to the third rail? Sufficient to cause a harmful electrical shock? AC or DC voltage?

Where do you obtain replacement heating elements?

Would the Jensen heating element provide too much resistance for the available track voltage?

Aristo Craft live steam could attract more "electric" hobbyists to live steam if the butane gas could be eliminated. Just fill the boiler with water, turn on the transformer electric boiler heat and control speed with the radio control throttle.

The Hornby OO live steam really interested me but the locos appeared to run too fast. I also want at least an O Scale sized loco.

Maybe electric live steam could power an Aristo Craft C-16 loco?


Thank you

Norman


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## locojim (Aug 21, 2010)

The Weeden/Steam Electric Company Loco was produced in the 1930s therefore quite an antique. 

http://weedensteam.com/mobile.html 

http://www.prices4antiques.com/toys...comotive-No-1-Live-Steam-O-Gauge-D9709478.htm 

http://doit101.com/toysteam/toysteamtrainsus.html 

A reprinted catalog is also out there, one just went by on Ebay 


I am not an electrician but I would suspect that if one was to use 120 AC (as the Jensen uses) it would just weld the wheels to the track., and be ridiculously dangerous. 
I miss quoted about the transformer specs, it was 300 watts 20 VOLTS and around 5 amps AC. 
The single skate on my loco is quite worn indicating that there was a lot of use, yet the loco is in very good shape. Albeit repainted. I suspect that there would be a lot of resistance at the skate with sparking and burning. 
The heating element in any electric heater is ni-crome wire. Sold by the ohms/foot. One has to figure it out for the application. 
I went thru this years ago when I was restoring electric stationary steam engines. 
I believe that real live steamers are pyromaniacs at heart, there is "no thrill with out the fire". 
I am a collector, restorer, runner of odd, rare, one of a kind engines hence this engine in on my shelf. But it is essentially a non runner and therefore now that it has been explored and repaired it is of nominal interest. It will go on the block someday. 
If you like the C16, Accucraft makes a very fine live steamer 
Cheerio 
Jim


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## locojim (Aug 21, 2010)

So, 
One of the Steam Electric Co. Lionel conversions (perhaps the ONLY one) sold recently on Ebay. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Prewar-Lion...843178?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item1c26ba88aa 

I was very interested in the photos that the seller presented as they were large and clear and from all angles. The cylinders and motion caught my eye because I just happen to have a set! These came my way about 20 years ago but I never knew what they were for. 
Now, 
I have purchased an Old electric Lionel #260 loco and fully intend to rebuild it into a Livesteamer but the crucial difference will be a gas fired boiler NOT electrically heated. By the way if anyone has a spare gas boiler setup like from a coal conversion I would very be interested. The I.D. of the Lionel boiler shell is 1.96 inches with about 6 or 7 inches for length. A Ruby boiler would fit just fine. 
Cheerio 
Jim


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Jim, 
I assume that you are going to keep it to Standard Gauge, so I guess that we will never see it run! 
Cheers, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## locojim (Aug 21, 2010)

Oh no, This little project is 0 gauge


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

The transformers /power supplies that are easier to find are 24 volts. Adding a 1 ohm 25+ watt dissipation resistor in series will drop the 24 volts to 19 volts. ( 1 ohm * 5 amps = 5 volts ) ( 5 volts * 5 amps = 25 watts ) This is a lot of heat so a fan and shroud on the resistor. Or a bank of resistors in parallel 4 x 4 ohm , 8 x 8 ohm 10 watt dissipation handling each will spread the heat over a larger area and be easier to find resistors for. They are common speaker sizes. 

Using a bank of resistors will allow for an exact 4 volt drop by doing the math to get the right combination of resistors. 

JP


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## locojim (Aug 21, 2010)

Wow, thanks JP, but I would prefer to use a much simpler source of heat


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## locojim (Aug 21, 2010)

Trying to send some pics but I am too Stupid


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## locojim (Aug 21, 2010)

Old Lionel engine and Steam Electric replacement cylinders


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, you got the photo to post!  
but its too big.. 
you have to re-size photos before you post them into messages.. 
MLS has an 800 pixel wide limit..the one you posted is 1,600 pixels wide.. 
please re-size it to 800..then you can edit your post..delete the link to the first image, and replace it with the link to the re-sized image.. 

thanks, 
Scot


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