# What do you want in Live Steam?



## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Just curious and thought I would throw this out.

What would you like to see built in the future?

A affordable Big Boy? , Another C series? 

Just wondering what your wanting to see built. 

So lets here from you all.


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

Please oh please oh please, WSLCo #15


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

This gets asked often and the results run all over the place as we all have our favourite... I always answer the same... "The General" from the American Civil War fame in 1:32 scale. I also want it to have proper working valve gear and no compromises in its operation. 

I have given up holding my breath for it... very few people agree with me... I think I have seen only one or two people say they want one too.


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## Michael (Jan 6, 2008)

A classic American 4-4-0 is also on on top of my my wishlist!
I'll take any, be it the General, Jupiter, #119, Inyo, etc. as long as it's 1:32.

Michael


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Ah, right, assuming for one moment that I would ever be able to afford it - unlikely in the extreme - I'd like to see the SP&S E-1 Northern #700. Second choice - SF's Northern #3751. 

Either or both. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd like to see Accucraft release their 4-4-0 painted and lettered for the North Pacific Coast "Sonoma" with the correct pilot, etc.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

I would like to see a live steam driven machine to produce cash to buy live steamers, Zubi


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By zubi on 16 Nov 2010 08:20 AM 
I would like to see a live steam driven machine to produce cash to buy live steamers, Zubi 










tac


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By zubi on 16 Nov 2010 08:20 AM 
I would like to see a live steam driven machine to produce cash to buy live steamers, Zubi 
I have seen most any engine be able to "stretch" your money!!


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles Mc.,

I'd like a W&ARR General, too. Wood fired? Could burn cedar chips used for smoking meats...


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## gearedsoft (Jun 20, 2009)

a heisler.


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

I second the Heisler.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

A narrow gauge 0-6-0 with outside frame, so I can run it with my other OR&L engines


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

I love when this comes up, my answer is also the same as last time. A North American 1:32 meths fired high stepping 4-4-2 Atlantic. No, wait, meths fired is new, still Atlantic though


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

At least one Alcohol/Meths fired SM32 loco again....


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Michael on 16 Nov 2010 01:19 AM 
A classic American 4-4-0 is also on on top of my my wishlist!
I'll take any, be it the General, Jupiter, #119, Inyo, etc. as long as it's 1:32.

Michael

Michael,
Back in 1985, I managed to borrow what plans they had, for the Canadian Pacific number 374, the 4-4-0 which pulled the first transcontinental train into Vancouver in 1887, which they were cosmetically restoring ready for the Expo 86 that was held in Vancouver.
Anyway, I redrew it all into 1/32 scale with the idea of building it, and even made up a test boiler.
I decided that a 'normal' boiler would have far too small a volume of water to make it an 'easy' steamer so put the project to one side, so that I could investigate boiler design further, where it has sat ever since.
Maybe I should re-visit the project when I find time!
That era of loco would make a very pretty little model.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

1:20.3 USRA 0-6-0. 

You asked! 

Trot, the converting, fox...


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## benshell (Oct 1, 2008)

I'd like to see more 1/29th scale mainline steam locomotives. I know, 1/32th is correct and 1/29th scale is wrong. But I like mainline steam and I like that 1/29th scale is bigger! Plus rolling stock for 1/29th scale is cheaper and more readily available (and I have lots of it already).


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Here at a few in the works of course will all to see something new. 

Look at this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6xMsDCvzPI 

PENNSY T1 4-4-4-4, Brass, Alcohol Fired, 1:32 Scale (ETA: 3/2011) 

K-4 Butane Fired, 1:29 Scale (ETA: 2/2011) 

EBT #12 2-8-2 Butane Fired, 1:20.3 Scale (ETA: 2/2011)


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## Michael (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By David Leech on 16 Nov 2010 03:16 PM 

Michael,
Back in 1985, I managed to borrow what plans they had, for the Canadian Pacific number 374, the 4-4-0 which pulled the first transcontinental train into Vancouver in 1887, which they were cosmetically restoring ready for the Expo 86 that was held in Vancouver.
Anyway, I redrew it all into 1/32 scale with the idea of building it, and even made up a test boiler.
I decided that a 'normal' boiler would have far too small a volume of water to make it an 'easy' steamer so put the project to one side, so that I could investigate boiler design further, where it has sat ever since.
Maybe I should re-visit the project when I find time!
That era of loco would make a very pretty little model.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada 

David,
If you build a series, I am in, if not, would it be possible to get copies of the drawings?

Michael


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I would like to see an engine with a real Gauge 1 live steam boiler and a real live reversing gear. Not these cheap, hurry-up, easy to make single flue gas fired things that sound like a General Electric CF6 on take off. No easy to make steam switches that work better in one direction then the other. Something alcohol fired, with a blower and a Hackworth, Stephenson or real, no kidding Walschearts reverse.


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Wow! , I'm new to large scale and Live steam but I figured if you ponied up the 1000+ dollars for a real scale steamer (not just a 400 dollar ruby, my current investment) that you would get some of the features Bob is talking about. I'm in total agreement especially in regard to the working reverse valve gear. Wouldn’t it be nice to notch the Johnson bar back a bit at speed for better efficiency?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

My Aster Mikes have real working Walschaerts Valve Gear and the "Company Notch" (controlled via R/C) really does improve water usage effeciency. Since it is alcohol fired it is difficult to control the fire to produce any effeciency in fuel usage, but, if I pay close attention to the valve gear setting (backing off after getting a train started) I will get runs of about an hour and only have to refill the tender once or twice, but if I just go full bore all the time, it will take at least 3 tenders full of water and the run time will be slightly reduced (maybe 5-10 minutes shorter... Running at full bore creates more draft which uses up fuel faster).

Granted, the Aster USRA Light Mikado, at about $4,000.00 was not anywhere in the range of the "slightly more than a Ruby"... but then, I was willing to pay that amount to get the features mentioned lately in this thread.


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## Chrisp (Jan 3, 2008)

A smallish Heisler in 1:20 would be cool, or any industrial 0-4-0 in SE scale.


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

An AFFORDABLE 1:20.3 KIT Shay, Heisler, or Climax for those of us with more talent than money.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

The down side to alcohol is lack of control. You can fine tune the wicks, but that is difficult if you have take half the engine apart to get with them. There is a little control in the blower valve. A good ceramic burner would be fine too. Just something not so darn loud.

I would like to see a boiler of ample pressure and capacity to run smooth in the "company notch". Crack the throttle open and see the engine really lurch. The Aster Mike, for example, can do that. If it stalls on a grade, it can build pressure and get going on it's own. That's an engine you can really operate. The old Aster Schools is another example of an engine that runs right, even with slip eccentrics.

Something with those features. Geared would be nice too.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd just like to see the locos I've had on order for the past 2 years. . . 

After that, it's time someone started making 1:13th scale 7/8n2 live steamers of the Maine 2-foot lines. Real scale Forneys, the 2-6-2, etc. Then, as a follow on, let's see a Gilpin Shay !


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd like to see a small stout little rack engine...possibly geared so it will run nice and slow up the side of a mountain. I would also like to see a Pennsy turbine someday. 

Keith


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

I gotta say it too: A Heisler-- that is unless Accucraft decides to build an Erie steam shovel. ;-)

They are already building my other dream machine-- the Case steam tractor.

Regards,


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a hankering for a out side frame 2-6-2 in Fn3, think of the Puffing Billy 2-6-2's. I know that they are 30" but I would like this engine in 1/20.3 to go with the steamers that I already have.


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm still patiently waiting for the live steam version of the WSLCo Shay!

Hope I live long enough and have enough retirement money to afford one.

By the time it's available the market will most certainly have made it's recovery?


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I know this is off on a tangent, but how about a reliable parts supply for already-out-there Accucraft engines. Mechanical parts, not just domes and stuff as now offered. According to Cliff recently, the 3% parts supply with all new production runs has never materialized. And 3% would have been minimal, at that. 

Fortunately, I can make/repair parts as necessary, but not everyone is in a position to do so. And, I've gotten old and lazy--rather buy when possible. 

Larry


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Besides echoing Pete's response, I'd like to see something like the venerable Roundhouse Boiler/Chassis kit, but for an inside frame 2-8-0 or similar. Think Accucraft's C-19, stripped down to just the bare essentials. I'd think you could do something like that--no cosmetics--fairly inexpensively. Then the modeler can build on top of that working boiler/chassis to suit. 

Later, 

K


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

A 3/5 scale Keck-Gonnerman?


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Larry Green on 18 Nov 2010 07:35 AM 
I know this is off on a tangent, but how about a reliable parts supply for already-out-there Accucraft engines. Mechanical parts, not just domes and stuff as now offered. According to Cliff recently, the 3% parts supply with all new production runs has never materialized. And 3% would have been minimal, at that. 

Fortunately, I can make/repair parts as necessary, but not everyone is in a position to do so. And, I've gotten old and lazy--rather buy when possible. 

Larry 
Larry,
Just curious, but what sort of parts do you think that they should have available.
I know that Cliff has had to strip locos to get the part that people need, and that I would think is what would work for them, except leave all the parts loose in a box so Cliff has an easier life.
I would think that all the owners of a particular loco might need all 'different' parts for various reasons, so it's not like you just make a whole bunch of extra coupling rods or something.
3% extra parts, for say a run of 150 locos is the equivalent to 5 extra locos in pieces.
Works for me, but I wonder why not for them!
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

That works unless you get an engine that has a problem with a valve rod or a tender boogie axel box or maybe an axel pump piston Then out of 150 engines maybe 10% or even just 4% have these problems, or even just one of these problems what then? The fact is if the problem is with that model then it could be 80, 90 or even 100% of them needing the same part. If the problem shows up when the engine is first issued, the company could make a replacement part then, but what if you need a part 10 or 20 years from the issue date?


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi David, 

Specifically, my early-production 3-cylinder Shay has developed excessive wear in the valve excentrics/straps, so much so that the slop makes for rough running. Cliff, who has been most helpful on other matters, indicated he had no replacements available. Also, one of the drivetrain universal joints recently came apart during a run; I was lucky to catch it before little parts scattered along the way. This engine has many hours on it, but has been well cared for; wear of moving parts is to be expected, and their design typically does not allow for adjustment to compensate. 

The valve motion of the 4-4-0 also has points that could develop excessive wear over time; most of the other inside-motion engines could be prone to similar wear points. Things happen with our mechanical toys, and the typical live-steamer should be able to cope with changing out parts, with help from others if necessary; I'm not sure the same can be said for having to repair/make new pieces from scratch. 

Accucraft spare parts apparently came in the past from unsaleable engines; their products have become much better "out of the box" (good). However, I guess this has affected parts availability (bad!) They briefly advertised a parts program that apparently has fallen by the wayside. 

I feel more confident that parts for my Roundhouse products will be there should I need them; they even supply a kit of service items along with a new engine. 

Regards, 

Larry


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, so we all want unlimited parts supply, perfectly running engines in Coal, Alcohol and Gas plus the model we personally want. No problems, except that it seems most want it for $500 to $1,000 with the $1,000 being something like a Big Boy or Challenger. There is a reason some brands are cheaper than others. I have noticed that most people never notice that on some brands the valve gear is in the wrong position with Walschaerts gear and in some it’s correct, that takes money. Ok so this might not be important so you shouldn’t have to pay for it but still being able to get parts for your 25 or 35 year old engine, costs money. 

This string stated off as a question, what do you want in live steam? I want a generic 2-8-0, alcohol fired in 1/32 scale. In the 90’s Row was going to make on but there was a conflict of interest with another company so it never was built.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 18 Nov 2010 09:01 PM 

This string stated off as a question, what do you want in live steam? I want a generic 2-8-0, alcohol fired in 1/32 scale. In the 90’s Row was going to make on but there was a conflict of interest with another company so it never was built. 
and how much are you willing to pay?
$2500 from Accucraft
$5000 from Aster
$63.82 from Yokoo
http://tinyurl.com/29qdtth
Sorry, I know that it's just a 2-6-0, but you get the idea.
Fill it up with water and alcohol, light a match and stand clear! 
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting listing but what is it: new or antique? Either way not worth the price of a bid (IMHO)


antique hand crafted metal train model 1947 locomotive[/b]

Item condition: New 

On to the topic
NG to be smaller than SG (based on 1:32)

Locomotives
NG Uintah 2-6-6-2T
SG 4-4-0 (Inyo, PRR D16sb) 


Of course one could have a 2-6-6-2T in standard gauge: BlackHills RR


If you look at the global view of what is most popular via Vote on Wheel arrangement


2-8-0 13%
2-8-2 11%
4-4-0 9%
4-8-4 9%


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Now we got all kinds of ideas. 
But I think it now what could be built and affordable at the same time. 
Their is always a trade off some where. 

What I want and what I am willing to pay for it is always 2 different things.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

A long time ago the question of "How much do you want to pay for your next live steamer" was asked. That combined with what wheel arrangement would you like to see?, The two are relevant. If You want to pick a particular engine, get your check book out, or invest in some machine equipment and build it yourself! 
This hobby has grown a lot in the past 10 years, but it is still a tiny segment of the model RR hobby. Not buying a live steamer because no one is offering the exact engine you want will keep you on the sidelines watching for a LONG time.... and thats OK, it means more track time for me....


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

When ever there is a discussion like this, cost becomes an issue. Everyone wants all kinds of wonderful features, then worry about the cost. You can't race at Indy with a Yugo. If you want performance you are going to have to pay for it. 

What's really frustrating is what Pete Thorton said. He just wants the engines he ordered 2 years ago. Go over to the sparkie forum and see those guys cry in thier beer after plunking down deposit money and waiting years.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

"Everyone wants all kinds of wonderful features, then worry about the cost." 

Bob, this is what I had said in my last post. Charles, I see that my 2-8-0 has the highest percentage of votes.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 19 Nov 2010 01:01 PM 
"Everyone wants all kinds of wonderful features, then worry about the cost." 

Bob, this is what I had said in my last post. Charles, I see that my 2-8-0 has the highest percentage of votes.
Dan
It is the "China syndome: wonderful representation of a product at a bargain basement attitude." As to percentage, it maybe related to the hobby population that voted (sparkies-I am guessing, who may not care about the motive power thus eschew the results) but still a factor to consider. I remember the advertisment for the 2-8-0. I believe that the 2-6-6-2 would be a good project of interest given the successful sales via LGB and Bachman.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

It is the "China syndome: wonderful representation of a product at a bargain basement attitude." 

For anyone who wants to do their own thing, I'd like to mention that the Chinese (and Indian) manufacturers are very approachable and willing to talk about your project. The success of the UK guys in getting live steamers that had not been available is testimony to that: the Accucraft 7P "Brittania" for one and the WuHu 2-6-4T LMS tank for another. (I hear you have to be willing to take a trip to China if you want it to be perfect?) 

Normal terms for the project I enquired about were a $$ development cost and then a reasonable $ per model. It didn't make much economic sense at less than 10 models, but hey - find another 9 guys who want a 2-8-0 and go for it! 

Alibaba.com is the place to find the suppliers.


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## dampfmaschinenjoe1967 (Dec 21, 2010)

I have no special likes as long as it is affordable: I like steam engines but I am allways short of money . The kind of more "toyish" steam loco suits my needs! (I own a Beck "Anna", very plain but a wonderful performer and woth every penny of the 400€ I paid for her) 

cheers Joe


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