# Which bridge should span my stream? (DIY)



## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

I am laying the track for my mainline, which is simply an oblong of track around my backyard and 3,000 gallon pond with all 4 corners made from 15 foot curves (please see the photos attached). The straight section on the south edge (top of the photos) is about 40 feet long and runs along the bottom of a 3 foot rise along my entire backyard, so in the photos, north is down. The power supply to my house runs from the southeast corner of my lot (upper LH corner) straight to the center of the back of my house (center of the bottom edge) so digging deeper than perhaps 10" anywhere but near my pond, to create the need for a bridge is out. I ain't gonna chance it. 
I've always wanted a stream flowing into my pond (controlled by a switch, to be turned on as needed when we are out there alone or with friends and having the opportunity to span it with a RR bridge might be the final piece to the puzzle, and the one that gets me started on my project. When I dig my stream, lined with 45 mil EPDM roofing liner, edged with rocks, I need to know how wide it ought to bee to look right, considering there's a 3,000 gallon pond nearby and 15' curves. The largest locos I'll be running are SD-45's, and a 2-8-8-2 Mallet so I don't want it to look too tiny. I mean a 2 foot bridgee would be an insult to my Mallet, yeah? 
The water will flow under the one track passing over it about 2 feet from the pond. I know I want it to be more than 2 feet and at least 3 feet so I believe 4 feet will be my ideal length. That ought to look proportionately correct, yeah? And I can customize the width of my stream at that particular point to accommodate the length of the bridge. 
My question, and/or concern is: Which bridge should I build? Metal is out. I don't have the means, friends with the skills to help, or skills myself to get 'er done.
I have been doing a lot of research on bridges and the Howe Truss Bridges seem to be relatively easy to build, even though they have additional steps and all the pieces can be cut all at once. I could even get them from an old redwood picnic table and benches if the pieces are still straight, right?
Are there any other bridge designs I ought to consider that are easy? Or easier? The Howe Truss Bridge is listed here all by itself simply because all the rest seem to be above my pay grade and skill set. 
In the photos, the bridge is on the top of the pond, and spans the stream using a brown bar, just so you can see where it'll be in relation to everything else.
I'm adding the WYE just because my daughter, age 32, and my biggest helper, has a seizure disorder, which has killed her brain to the point where she is about 6 years old mentally. So as long as she loves this railroad, I'll be out building and operating. She loves to fill the cars with those small plastic characters kids get with Happy Meals. 
I want this bridge to look great. I want it to last. I'll settle for 3 feet long but will try for four. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I hope the photos work. Last time they didn't. FESTUS

P.S. Please see the August 2007 issue of Garden Railways and turn to page 110 ("Build a stunning Howe Truss Bridge.") I found many other articles on the Howe Truss but that's a good one. Lots of good photos found will help too.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Festus,

Where are the pictures?

Because your two locomotives are heavy engines in prototype, a Howe Truss IMHO is out. Also it is made of wood. Might be great for a backwoods or branchline railroad, but not for big road engines that you are running. Remember wood has to be maintained.

I had a need for quite a few bridges about three years ago because I had a section of NG mainline that spanned almost 40 feet! I had two metal truss bridges built by Daniel Peck in North Carolina. One is 4 ft. long, made of steel and powder coated. The other is 5 ft. long and made of aluminum. All welded, they will live longer than I will!  The 4 footer was about $275.00 including deilvery to So. Cal. The aluminum bridge was about the same, maybe a little less.

But those bridges would not come close to closing my forty foot gap. I contacted Lindsay Scott who owns J&S Railcar in Tenneesee. He made up four kits to assemble four, 4 foot long Arch bridges. They were all made of ABS plastic! They are easy to glue together using the same glue that plumbers use to fasten ABS pipe. Those four kits (16 feet) were $400.00 delivered to So. Cal. Then I needed a set of bridges to span about 14 feet additional. For those bridges, J&S Railcar made 16 kits of steel deck bridges, still all ABS plastic and easy to build.. IRRC they were about $25.00 each. About 18 inches long and about 4 1/2 inches wide by about 4 inches tall. All have internal bracing and you can see right through the track through all the bracing. They are beautiful bridges! If you send me your email address, I will send some photos your way.

Rick Marty (MLS) had a couple of huge arch bridges made by J&S Railcar also. They were like my arch bridges, looked like they were on steroids! Just a lot bigger.....longer and wider.

Good luck with your choice.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I wouldn't discount metal. You can get a variety of structural shapes at Lowes, for example. Two square or rectangular tubes, "C" or "L" shapes, can be the load-bearing members, and you can go from there to make as realistic a model as you have the time to build. Paint it up, and from ten feet away it will look great. Steel can be allowed to rust naturally, if you like that look.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Metal is out.


Not sure why you are eliminating metal. There are some bridge designs that can be made with little more than an arch of aluminum or steel. 



















The arch under is easiest to build, as everything just sits on top of the chord (Use good glue.) Arching the metal over the flat platform means drilling a few holes for wires to hold the platform - I think bicycle spokes have been used successfully.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

If'n ya have room...you could build a spaning the water section.... plus add low trestles as approaches on each end. This would give you visual variety in materials..add some modelers license..have fun!!

Remember....bridges are not designed to make a loco look purdy.. or impressive..

Spans are created to cross a given location as needed..based on terrain.
The loco weight does give designers headaches... and they should consider the load bearing abilities in a given design..

When your done with this project....based on the local needs...then your locos will look great crossing an impressive bridge!!

Good luck


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

Shot down by all. Right in the gizzard!!!! I posted the photos and it said they were uploaded but as usual, they weren't. I spent time making certain they met the size requirement and all but............NO!!!! 

I have seen the photos of the metal bridges but unless I can do it myself, I'm stuck. I do have a friend, a welder who makes trailers for a living, so he can fabricate easily. He has already solved two problems with my 1975 Harley Davidson AMF Ironhead Sportster so perhaps metal isn't out, IF........he's willing to tackle such a huge project. Some of the bridge photos are very appealing. 

The Howe Truss Bridges I have seen and read about, all take into consideration the original design and they make certain they adhere thereto. Their bridge photos all show Howe Truss bridges from 3'-4' long, and I'm not sure about a Mallet or an SD-45, but they do show some pretty heavy looking locos running over their bridges. 

IF I am determined to build a Howe Truss, and use hardwood, like oak, and perhaps increase the size of all the beams, then take a page from Lionel's O scale book of bridges and add a metal support for the bottom of the bridge, then surely it would nearly support MY WEIGHT, eh? My friend says he could supply any length, width and thickness I need for my bridge (wish I woulda thought of him before I started all this) then I could do my Howe Truss, albeit a modified version with a metal base. But that seems rather silly if I can get him to go the distance and build me a metal 4 foot bridge of my choosing. I'd like to build one that the trains must go through, not just over, so I want it to have a lid, or a roof. If that's too much work for him, and he's a nice guy, but he's also in high demand.

One more question then, if I build a shorter version of a Howe Truss Bridge in a different location, say a 2 footer, and I use the brass rods and nuts for support, will that support a Mallet? It only needs to support HALF the Mallet, right? I could put that over a shallow creek bed filled with rocks. 

Thanks again for your replies. Someone tell me how to upload photos.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

SD90WLMT said:


> Remember....bridges are not designed to make a loco look purdy.. or impressive..


True..but thats in the real world! 

We often hear that garden railroads have the same challenges as real railroads..
weather, drainage needs, ballast..etc. 
while this is also true, there are some areas where the garden railroad can, 
and IMO, should, depart from the real railroad in dramatic ways..

bridges are one of those areas IMO..On a real railroad, a span over a small stream might best be served by a bridge like this:









cheap, practical, not fancy, does the job..thats the primary goal for real railroads...
for real railroads, "looks pretty" or "looks interesting" is the _least_ important trait for a bridge..

But for a Garden railroad, "looks pretty" or "looks interesting" can be the _most_ important traits!  if you want them to be..
(of course if you want to go for absolute realism, that's fine too..your choice)
but my point is, there is no need to make a boring bridge on a garden railroad if you dont want to..
"good looks" can be the most important factor on a model railroad!  interesting can trump practical.



















Definitely not realistic, but definitely not boring! 









There is a reason many model railroads have modern diesels running over wooden trestles..because it looks cool! 

Its fine to be rigidly realistic in our modeling, if we choose..
but just remember, its not a requirement! 

Scot


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

You might try a metal bridge made of Shelf "standards"... These come in two types.

One is intended to mount on a wall. These are "C" channels about 1/2 inch square and usually come in 2-, 4- and 6-ft lengths. Only two are required for short shelves (3 or more can be used for long shelves). Arms as long as the shelf is deep are inserted in slots in the upright "C" channels such that they stick out from the wall to cradle a board to make a shelf.

The other is designed to fit against the end walls inside of a cabinet. These are shallow depth "C" channels about 1/2 inch wide but only 1/8- to 3/16-inch deep and also come in various 2-ft increment lengths. Four channels are required to support a shelf. Small clips are inserted in slots such that they stick out just far enough to catch the ends of a board. The board ends are often notched to fit around the upright "C" channels.

I used 2 4-ft lengths of the square type for the deck girders and 2- 6-ft lengths of the shallow type for the arches (plus another of the shallow "C" type to cut cross pieces to go between the two sides) to make an arched suspension bridge, and two more 4-ft sections to run under the track for additional support to the rails. The suspension "cables" are copper coated welding rod. I also used some angle brackets to attach the ends of the deck girders to the arches.

The only tools required were a hacksaw to cut the cross pieces to length, a file to clean up the cuts, a screwdriver and wrench to tighten small bolts for assembly and a pair of pliers to bend the suspension "Cables". I also used epoxy to hold the suspension cables in place.

The arches were "belly bent" to rough shape, care being taken to not let the metal bend too much at the weak points (where the slots and holes are).

The shelf standards have uniformly spaced holes and slots along the length, but because the arches are, well... arched, they do not necessarily align with the slots in the deck girders. Judicious selection of which holes and where in the slots the cables were placed minimized the irregular spacing caused by the misalignment of the holes due to the curvature. I could have drilled a couple of extra holes in the arches at 4 places to even up the verticality of the cables, but it really does not look bad as it is.

Originally, I though the suspension cables would merely be decoration, but I found that the square "C" channels were too weak to support my engine when it was in the middle of the 4-ft long bridge and it was "uphill" both ways to get it off the bridge.

To make the cables have some tension to support the deck I bent a short hook on the end of each rod and inserted them down from the top and epoxied them to the arch. When the epoxy was cured, I put tape over all the slots in the bridge deck and turned the whole thing upside-down to sort of squash the arch. I then bent a hook on each of the cables just past where they pass through the slots of the deck girders and poured more epoxy into the channel (the tape kept it from running out the slots and was removed when the epoxy was cured).

When the epoxy cured, I turned it back up-right and it is a very stiff bridge that shows no deflection when my engine runs over it.

The only problems I have with the bridge are that I thought the shelf standards were anodized aluminium, but they are a plated steel and the plating is easily scratched. Anywhere the plating gets scratched rusts very quickly. Same for the copper coated welding rod, they are all very rusty now, too. I should have painted it (or maybe powder coated it!).

Another problem is that the shelf standards have round holes every 6-inches (for mounting screws). That worked out very well for ME to make the bridge about 6-inches wide, since I run strictly 1:32 scale trains, but a friend brought over his 1:20.3 Shay and the window awnings on the cab are less than a hairs diameter narrower than the inside clearance of the bridge and the bridge has removed the paint along the edges of the awnings! The bridge could easily be made wider but it would require some drilling to get properly spaced holes for assembly. Also the upper cross pieces are too low on the ends for the smoke stack of the Shay chimney to fit (but he unscrewed the "ash screen" from the top and it fits fine that way.

Attached are some photos.


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## Festus (Jun 28, 2010)

Wow!!!!! Now what am i gonna do???


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Festus, i made a four feet howe truss bridge on the cheap.













the building description can be found here: http://kormsen.info/bridges/

(scroll down about two thirds of the page)


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

While Scotty chose to take some of my message of encouagement or ideas out of context..

You are missing the point Festus...You n you alone hold the trump card for your layout..

Build what makes you happy! Nothing more..nothing less..it is just a toy!! All is possible in the garden!!

Your only practical concern would be that it can carry the weight of toy locos....at the very least!!

I'll be running multiple modern diesel consists over trestles...because I can....because it looks great...adds texture and variety....but they will mimmic trestles typical of mainlines with new power running...using bents with 6-7 posts...old n.g. may only be built on 4-5 posts...

Your RR...like I said...have fun!!


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Festuss,

It's easy to post pictures if you use a free web service, like Flikr.

Properly engineered wood bridges are plenty strong. These trestle bents are intended for two parallel tracks, and are 40 inches tall. One bent will support my body weight.

Trestle bent-2 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr

Trestle-1 by BigRedOne45mm, on Flickr


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Festus,

Don't give up on the Howe Truss. This is a scale model of a real D&RGW bridge:




























It was built by George Kovacs and later installed on Rog's RGS East. It is about 8' long and you can sit on it. It will easily take the weight of an articulated or a trio of dismals.
Of course, if you only need a 4' bridge, build something a little less elaborate.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Festus, if I read your initial post correctly, you are already laying track. So, while a bridge like Pete's above or for that matter, most posted in this thread, it would take me weeks if now months to recreate one of them. With that, I suggest putting in a simple to make bridge to get your railroad up and running. Then if you want to invest the time in building a master piece of a bridge, it can always be installed in place of the temporary one. Too many great railroads have been started but never finished. Yea, for many the building part is the most fun, but there is nothing more energizing than seeing a train running even if the layout isn't finished.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Randy... Get the line usable first, a simple 2x4 spanning the gap will suffice. It can even be gussied up with some thin vertical strips at uniform spacing along the length to look like stiffening ribs and nail heads to look like rivets to make the 2x4 look like a metal girder span (like Scotty's post at 11:43 AM above), and it can be done piece meal as time permits while it is installed. Later that can be replaced with something else if so desired.

My arch suspension bridge (above) was an "afterthought" long after I had built my elevated track and it just slipped in as a replacement for a 4-ft span in the middle of the layout.

And have alternative plans in your mind the whole time... maybe you will want to change the shape of the layout after you see it running. The nice thing about garden railroading is that it is cheap and easy to alter the landscape to fit the layout if need be (unlike the real world where it sometimes takes great expense (and dynamite) to alter the landscape.)


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

SD90WLMT said:


> While Scotty chose to take some of my message of encouagement or ideas out of context..


I did? hmm..If I did, I didnt "choose to", because I wasnt aware I was doing it! 



SD90WLMT said:


> You are missing the point Festus...You n you alone hold the trump card for your layout..
> 
> Build what makes you happy! Nothing more..nothing less..it is just a toy!! All is possible in the garden!!
> 
> ...


Isnt that exactly what I said?
not sure how im disagreeing with you then..hmm.
well, it probably doesn't matter! 

Scot


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I think your buddy could do the first example of the KCS bayou crossing. Raise your footings for a river/ fast water conditions.
I even found you a crew!
Happy Rails
John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

It's all good Scotty!! MC!!!


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Going over water, I would feel better if there was a barrier of some type to prevent a spill over, in my case I have to watch the wind. There are many styles that provide that.
Dennis


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Be careful following John's images, as one is probably not a railway bridge!

To protect from trains tipping over, the bridge deck can be made wider, and a walkway and handrails added. Or, one of the through truss or suspension bridge designs used.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

BRO which?
Not the crew I trust.....


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Festus,
I have a simple oval of track currently but when I built I made made provisions for expansion. Currently though that would also mean cutting off access from the back yard to the front yard with the lawn tractor so my plans are for an approximately 6' wide removable bridge. I am hoping to get that built this winter for installation in the spring. Current plans are to use some pressure treated lumber and dress it up a little bit to resemble Scotty's first suggestion of the above deck girder bridge. My idea and goal is getting the trains running across the bridge then dream bigger and better. Get them running first and enjoy them. Then you will be motivated to finish the layout to your satisfaction.

Chas


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I like the look of the Howe Truss bridge. here's a link to my thread of building mine. Plenty of details on the build in there. All DIY except the aluminum angle blocks which can easily be made from wood if desired.


Never mind. Looks like I accidently deleted the pictures in my thread.  I'll have to find them again and repost.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Not exactly what you are looking for, but these pics might help you in the idea department.

There is a natural drainage/fire access road that my layout crosses. So I needed something removable. The solution was two 6 foot bridges:




















And here is a simple small bridge I made using Pola bents. The "river" diverts any artesian well overflow. In years of good snowpack it usually runs until July. But in some years, like in the photo, it never flows.


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