# Getting out of the hobby...



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I keep hearing the news and I am thinking it would be good to get out of the hobby. Sale all our trains. 
Use the money to help the nation get bailed out. 
Use our now extra time to volunteer and help the goverment.
Live on as little as possible or simply move back in with our parents!!!!!
It would be so much simplier...

Sorry, no photos.


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Or buy more ammo!


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Right now you have a choice Marty. But, once Obama institutes the share the wealth programs, you'll be sending your $$$ and your trains to all the underprivlaged and illegal aliens so they have a train to put around their Christmas trees! 

But you'll feel so proud that you helped America survive this economic desaster. 

Randy


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I would reply to this but I have to go wash my slip covers on my easy chair. Reading the title and who wrote it scared the poop out of me and I made a mess on my slip covers. 


Some one here owes me a box of laundry detergent.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry Marty, but i am already doing all those things, except SELLING ALL MY TRAINS!!!!!Well I guess I have sold alot of em!! NOW what do I DO or is it DO DO. Hee hee The Regal


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 02/24/2009 6:42 PM
I keep hearing the news and I am thinking it would be good to get out of the hobby. Sale all our trains. 
Use the money to help the nation get bailed out. 
Use our now extra time to volunteer and help the goverment.
Live on as little as possible or simply move back in with our parents!!!!!
It would be so much simplier...

Sorry, no photos.



Marty,
You go ahead.
I'm not gonna give those thieves anymore than they can steal (or already have).
My 401K is now officially a 201K ( or is that a 4 Oh None K??)
I volunteer plenty enough as it is.
Can't move back in with the parents. They're dead, and my sister bought the house. We won't go into much more depth than I feel fortunate enough that she only comes over for about 6 hours twice a year (Thanksgiving & Christmas).
Ain't nuthin' simple about the mess that's likely to flow out of the cesspools around this great country...

*THEN* there *WILL* be photos...

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

How's that go? "Ask not what your country can do for you....."

So dig in there guys and do what you can to get things right down there. Your septic system is spilling over into my yard. Not that it effects me a whole lot. My military pension is sort of a 'wet suit' in this case but there are a lot of us plenty worried these days. 

I'm taking my tax return, upgrading my open water diving certificate and buying new trains. Going to be a fine summer.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 02/24/2009 6:42 PM
I keep hearing the news and I am thinking it would be good to get out of the hobby. Sale all our trains. 
Use the money to help the nation get bailed out. 
Use our now extra time to volunteer and help the goverment.
Live on as little as possible or simply move back in with our parents!!!!!
It would be so much simplier...

Sorry, no photos.








Can't much argue about a good time to sell our trains, if eBay prices are any clue.

You might as well 'Use the money to help the nation get bailed out.' Because if it keeps on, a dollar will be worth 50 cents a year from now, two years, 25 cents, etc. Just like the Carter years, which I doubt you remember. Prices will go up to compensate though, due to shortages caused by government control over vital industries--not cars, food. Agribusiness is huge. Or should that be 'was'? You _do_ understand ethanol in our gas tanks is far more important than corn and corn products on our tables, don't you? I mean, who likes corn bread to eat when you can buy cheap bread that turns to concrete in your toaster? Ick. (Corn flakes are okay). And to think, in the '30s, the 'Revenoors' usta hunt guys like my dad, a mere 'misguided youth' who turned corn into ethanol to drink, and sold it tax free during the Depression times. Because he also liked to eat. Cheating the gov't out of taxes will get you in deep stuff. They and the bootleggers like Joe Kennedy had a lock on that trade. It's not what you know, or who you know, it's who you pay off. Do well enough, and you too can be an ambassador someplace important. 

You certainly can 'Use our now extra time to volunteer and help the goverment.' Because you probably will be made to, by joining 'community action groups' like ... oh, ACORN ... say. (Hey, they got 4.5 BILLION $$ for 'community action') in the Stimulus Package. Or else you and your family can just go hungry.

'Live on as little as possible or simply move back in with our parents!!!!!' Like the other bearded gentleman above, my parents are dead. My wife still has her mother, a lovely old lady of 90 to whom I tell my troubles on occasion. I'm a mere kid of 65. You, my esteemed board member, can in fact live on as little as possible. She remembers people stealing food from the garden at night. Health coverage was unknown in those days. But to compensate, seeing a doctor was fairly cheap--if you had the few dollars to pay. Wages? Fifty cents a day for a field hand. My father-in-law made 33-1/3 cents/hr at Delco Remy.

But don't fret: the 'guvamint' will take care of everything we'll ever need--except our self respect. Hey, as things look, we'll all get a subsidized converter to be able to watch the evening news extoll the New American Dream.

As soon as they figure out what that is.

Les


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Duncan on 02/24/2009 8:05 PM
Posted By NTCGRR on 02/24/2009 6:42 PM
I keep hearing the news and I am thinking it would be good to get out of the hobby. Sale all our trains. 
Use the money to help the nation get bailed out. 
Use our now extra time to volunteer and help the goverment.
Live on as little as possible or simply move back in with our parents!!!!!
It would be so much simplier...

Sorry, no photos.



Marty,
You go ahead.
I'm not gonna give those thieves anymore than they can steal (or already have).
My 401K is now officially a 201K ( or is that a 4 Oh None K??)
I volunteer plenty enough as it is.
Can't move back in with the parents. They're dead, and my sister bought the house. We won't go into much more depth than I feel fortunate enough that she only comes over for about 6 hours twice a year (Thanksgiving & Christmas).
Ain't nuthin' simple about the mess that's likely to flow out of the cesspools around this great country...

*THEN* there *WILL* be photos...

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...


I'm with JJ on that one. Dang hear had an infarction after the soiling. Duncan, Ya'll can come live with us here in Virginia. Trouble is you may have to fight my parents for the spare space. I don't know for sure but folks tell me this area has shown to be a good place for things to........... "start". A couple watering holes near by that might provide the correct "stimulus" if we were to just listen to the walls. 

Why look at photo's when you can be in them!


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## Hagen (Jan 10, 2008)

Not sure it's wise to jump in here, but...
The last time, like this time, our government spent quite a bucketload of money to buy shares in privately owned banks and businesses. This allowed the government to make demands to the banks, now that they where the majority share holder. No fat bonuses or payraises for those scoundrels, half of them were fired, with no compensation (why do they expect compensation for doing a piss poor job?!)...

That saw a healthy increase in the capital of those institutions, then after a few years (2-5) they sold their shares whenever they could, thus getting the business back into private ownership, the government also did make a buck of these sales of course. Better than increasing taxes


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Getting rid of my trains is like telling NRA members to give up their guns. Not gonna happen!!!!!!


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Marty has flip his wig. Or he is smoking to many corn cobs. Not going to happen in my life time. Later RJD


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## sbaxters4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty I think the fumes from your paint/glue/solder/heater has gotten to you! Get out of the room and go outside and breath some of that clean and clear Nebraska "fresh" air! It'll do ya' good!


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I am Canadian and live close to Detroit, Michigan. What is happening financially in the U.S., is having a huge ripple effect here. We are being asked the same questions to help our government bail out our economy as well. Here are some simple tips you can use to help the economy.
1. No one can better spend or manage your money better than you. Don't give it to the government.

2. Your home is your largest investment. Spend your money to better improve it's value. Upgrade the kitchen, replace that worn carpet.

3. Curb appeal not only sells a home, but it also makes people want to live next door to you.
4. Your car looking a little dull in appearance? Have it repainted and have it done locally.

5. Spend your money locally, and yes, even in a big chain store. They employ people in your town.

6. Finally, buy more trains. A hobby gives you a sense of accomplishment and inner peace. Don't give that up just because an overpaid auto executive has his hand out asking for help. 

Regards, Dennis.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty I think the fumes from your paint/glue/solder/heater has gotten to you! 




No, he just watched Obama's speach.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Let's try and keep politics out of this as much as possible Gents. Even good natured comments intended in fun can cause people of the opposite persuasion to bristle and post heated responses, starting the rapid downward spiral.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree Dwight, I do the trains and hide in my basement to get away from all the Fox news programs my wife watches and wants to talk to me about. So, none of that stuff here, please!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Shuttin' up, here.









Les


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

No politics here.. too sticky of a wicket. 

But I would agree with thekolletcor..


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## CLRRNG (Sep 26, 2008)

*I think marty is trying to spurr sarcasm? I doubt he is getting out of the hobby. Then again he could be in my shoes as well. *
* I moved in with my parents and plan on moving out as fast as I moved in. I am too old to live with them and they make me crazier. 
Selling all my train stuff except for a few engines and some rolling stock. Thank goodness for Ebay. Selling my jeep and motocycle too. Will be trying my hardest to get out of the lease on my truck and down size to a compact car that will carry me and my kids. It seems I am going back to basics. Sooner or later I will be left with what I came into this world with. NOTHING but a name. 
I took out all of my 401K to pay dept. I took it out after I lost 10% of savings that took me 16 years to accumulate. Now I owe Uncle Sam a huge penalty that I do not have. Oh well maybe I won't pay for it. Then I will be put in the slammer with free room and board. HHHMMM!!!! that may be a good idea. 
You guys that are retired I envy you. 

Glen
*


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## thekollector (Jan 2, 2008)

Retirement works great ------ Right up until the inflation hits!


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Cheers to Dwight and Jerry Barnes!







Who needs more crap to keep people fighting? Enough of that in the Track Power vs. Bettery R/C forum lmao.


-Will


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By DennisB on 02/25/2009 7:03 AM
I am Canadian and live close to Detroit, Michigan. What is happening financially in the U.S., is having a huge ripple effect here. We are being asked the same questions to help our government bail out our economy as well. Here are some simple tips you can use to help the economy.
1. No one can better spend or manage your money better than you. Don't give it to the government.

2. Your home is your largest investment. Spend your money to better improve it's value. Upgrade the kitchen, replace that worn carpet.

3. Curb appeal not only sells a home, but it also makes people want to live next door to you.
4. Your car looking a little dull in appearance? Have it repainted and have it done locally.

5. Spend your money locally, and yes, even in a big chain store. They employ people in your town.

6. Finally, buy more trains. A hobby gives you a sense of accomplishment and inner peace. Don't give that up just because an overpaid auto executive has his hand out asking for help. 

Regards, Dennis.

Great advice. 
Item #1 describers my basic philosophy. Recent events have only proved me right on this. I have never seen so much incompetent action in such a short period of time as has occurred in the last few months when the first of the bail outs occurred. Nothing is working. Nor will it. No amount of money spent by the government will save the situation that THEY created. Time to batten down the hatches. 


As far as item #6, I am not taking chances that certain pieces of rolling stock I want now may not be available later. I have already ordered all the pieces I anticipated needing to complete this phase of my model railroad project including the engines. Under normal circumstances I would have spread this out over several years, but I am not so sure we will have that luxury indefinitely. In fact, I am relatively certain that we will NOT. Better not to wait too long to pick up those desired items to complete one's mini railroad empire! 

Regards,
--Ron


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 02/25/2009 9:18 AM
I agree Dwight, I do the trains and hide in my basement to get away from all the Fox news programs my wife watches and wants to talk to me about. So, none of that stuff here, please!



I have Fox News on all the time. It is the ONLY way to get anything that approaches a straight answer to what is actually occurring in politics. 

BUT one can only take so much of that before it becomes overwhelming. These trains have been a great way to get away from the unreal reality. They have become a huge part of my life. Fortunately, they combine well with my business.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm not discouraged , I just find how addictive this hobby can be. i can't seem to stop buying more of what I already have. The goverment can't seem to stop spending more of what it don't have.
I feel really blessed to be busy and all my guys are still have lots of work.
I am very envous of those who can be happy and enjoy short trains on small layouts.
Some times I do ask my self why simply of what value do we place on this hobby in life.?
Just thinking out loud.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Marty,

As a guy who runs short trains on a small back yard RR I sometimes wish I had the space and track that you have - not to mention your model building abilities.

But I am content to live happily with what I have and also be able enjoy your NTCGRR videos.


I have been looking at the web site of Bachmann UK today. They are the Aristo importers her by the way. They have now put prices back on their web pages. AAAAAAAARGHHHH!!!!!!!! The new prices are astronomical.








So as far as I can see maybe it is time to pull up the drawbridge. I guess seven locos and fifty items of rolling stock are probably enough (well she says so)


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I totally sympathize with the addictive quality. I'm always looking for "better" or "more." The other day I was running some trains and some kids were over, and a little kid knocked a couple coaches off the track. I'd spent a lot of time repainting and detailing them and adding lights. They fell about 2 feet, suffered some damage. I was clearly mad. 

My wife pointed out to me that nobody wants to be around a garden train if the owner is potentially going to be mad whenever something goes wrong. It should be friendly and casual, not perfect and untouchable. She's clearly right. 


So I'm not widening the 8 foot curves. Instead I'm thinking about what interesting stuff i can do in smaller spaces, without turning into the Garden railway equivalent of Ernest Borgnine in Emperor of the North. I'm looking at 0-4-0s and diesels smaller than a RS-3. We live in a semi-urban neighborhood, so space is a bit at a premium. 


But then I start thinking "I could expand into the backyard, run a really long mainline...."


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 02/25/2009 3:07 PM
I totally sympathize with the addictive quality. I'm always looking for "better" or "more." . .


But then I start thinking "I could expand into the backyard, run a really long mainline...." 



I suspect that sentiment goes for most ALL of us.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Biggers better i always say, i was in train rehab for a while but feel off the wagon last week and ordered a triplex. now im back in rehab and doing well and i CAN make it this time i know i can...HE HE HE AND BY THE WAY I DO GET PISSED AS WELL WHEN SOMEONE BESIDES MYSELF DAMAGES SOME OF MY EXPENSIVE TRAINS when they do it on purpose... word of the day RESPECT other people stuff or get slapped up side the head..* HA HA HA


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

I had no idea that you guys were so angry about the stimulus plan. Here's an idea - why don't you lobby your local and state governments and demand that they refuse all stimulus funds? Maybe take it a step further and personally boycot any roads constructed with stimulus funds, refuse to ride on any rail projects funded by the government, refuse any emergency services funded with public tax dollars . . . 

I'll be in the backyard building my railroad . . .


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Glen,

I feel for ya, dude. Used to have motorcycles and a series of Jeeps (cj's & Commandos from the 60s) and all the good stuff. It came, it went. I got some good memories, though.

Be careful about envying us retired guys. We're a good deal closer to getting our ticket punched than you are. Also, the big drag is the loss of stamina to do much hard work, and I always did work hard. Not any more.

Tell you a secret: you can lose all your stuff, and by working hard, make that money back. I did. I know other guys that did. It's just hard, that's all. Takes time, takes sweat, takes patience, and it takes the knack of shrugging off the bad stuff and just going on. That's hard to do, but it can be done.

Hang in there.

Les


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have gond and burried my head in the sand. I got ear plugs in too. Can one of you guys come by and let me know when it's over


I have turned off TALK RADIO I don't watch the news chanesl eigher 


I have been surffing E Bay in the Audio Book Section under CD Auido books.

I have been listing to Books being read to me. 

It get to tthe point while listing to the story " I really don't care why the trafic is not moving "

I am just tired of Politics all together


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ 
you should always read the good book... as it says in the book of Marty chapt 3 vs 89 
He who farts in church must sit in his own pew.... 
Very wise. 

For newbies, go to the four Gospels
Matthew
Marty
Luke and
John..


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Of course, 1 Chronicles 26:18 says: 

"At parbar westward, four at the causeway and two at parbar." 

Reading is good for you JJ


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## Splicer (Nov 29, 2008)

I have been considering requesting some bailout money for the Cableland Southern Xpress line and build the fleet up again. It would employ many what with all the track that needs to be laid and the resulting transportation boom could easily bring more people to work at all the new jobs created by the new line.


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## Guest (Feb 27, 2009)

i can't seem to stop buying more of what I already have.
don't be afraid, you will learn it. 

first world economy goes down the drain now. the goverments will not be able to change that. 
north american, european, asian and (newer) south american history teach how it will go. 
the working class will have to struggle for food, the middle class will disappear. 
there will be a sharp downwards slope for about five years. after that slowly the economics will get better again. 

after the fertilizer hit the fan down here in the mid 80ies, i lost about two thirds of my fortune. 
but i was able to reorganize and now i am on my way up again. 
but i NEVER GAVE UP MY HOBBIES! 
they were, what kept me above water. mentally. they were the source of joy in a world gone insane. 
well, the way, i execute my hobbies changed. 
before the crash i was chequebook modelling. spending about 5000$ a year. since then i learned things like to strip the motor and gears from broken taperecorders and printers when parts are needed to repair a loco. 
and, you know what? - it is more satisfying! (i spend less than 200$ per year now on the hobby) 

the circumstances will teach you to take another aproach to your hobby, but do not let them rob you of your source of joy! 
the culprits (banksters and politicians - all kind of politicians) will take enough from you by force. 
but don't give them a cent more, than you must. 
you are in a landslide. one can not stop landslides with a shovel. one can only clean up afterwards. 

korm


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Korm,

I do not disagree with a word you posted.

I'm an old Ozark hillbilly. (Prob'ly what you consider a peasant, with no insult intended, it's cultural differences we speak of here--and I used to work for a 'white' spaniard of Mexican descent.) I learned early what 'class discrimination' felt like: it doesn't matter how fast/hard you work, or how smart: you're a peasant. And always will be. What you have to do is genuflect (verbally or attitudinally) to the Boss. Us Ozark hillbillies don't do that. It's a matter of pride.

I don't care if the economy of the US goes to **** or not. The house I grew up in didn't have running water (indoor plumbing, in other words.) It didn't get electricity until 1952. Then, my father had to pay the 'peoples' party a month's wages to get two power poles set, to get electricity. This was under the praised 'TVA act' that 'Brought cheap electricity to rural regions'. Read the history books. Oh, our breaker box was 30 amps. Today, mine's 200A and underpowered--they think.

WTH, they gonna throw me out of the house I've lived in--and made payments on--for almost 40 years? Fine. I'll toss a match into a gallon of gas as the last one out the door. Let 'em sell an ash-filled foundation.

Making it all back? I lost the 3rd largest feeder pig operation in the Tri-county area in SE MO. (Very large.) I made it all back and more, working hard. Raised a family while I was doing it. But not where Big Boy control of feed & markets could touch me.

I don't care if this country goes down or not. All the men in my family back to the Revolution served the colors. After 'Nam, I told my son, "screw 'em". I have my hoe, axe, tent and a couple of guns. Folks of the 'Care for us!" flavor hate guys like me. And my wife and kids. We may go down, but we'll go down causing problems.

Les


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2009)

I had no idea that you guys were so angry about the stimulus plan. 

why should anybody not be angry about it? 
banks have thrown out of the window the money, savers lent to them. 
so the banks can not give any more credits to producers. 
goverments all over the world are in debt. this debt has as collaterals goverment bonds, they sold to the tax payers, via the banks. 
if these near bancrupt goverments now stuff the banks with money - where does this money come from? 
they could borrow from the banks. - but the banks have no money... 
they could raise taxes. - taxes from whom? from those, who loose their jobs? 
they could sell goverment bonds. - to whom? to the savers, that lost their savings to the fraudulent banks? 
they can print/create new/more money! everybody happy! - only Joe, Jack and Jim aren't. they can buy less food for their wages... 
[sarcasm]but less food means less overweight. so the stimulus plan helps keeping down healthcare costs![/sarcasm]


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll try this once. It's not meant as a partisan statement, just an explanation, I'm not wanting to get anyone to agree with it. 


The logic behind the stimulus plan is this. When the economy starts to go bad, people pull up the drawbridge and start spending less. They are worried, and they save where they used to spend. That makes the economy worse, which makes people tighten up more, which makes the economy worse. People do what feels natural--they draw in and spend less--which makes the overall problem much much worse. 

The premise of the stimulus is that only government is big enough to overcome this tendency and, by pumping money into the economy, get people to spend again. Otherwise people just keep drawing in. Some people look at the New Deal, and say "look, it doesn't work." Others look at the New Deal and say "FDR was too cautious: it worked when the govt spent MASSIVELY on WWII."

That's the logic behind the stimulus plan. Will it work? I hope so. Anybody got a better idea?


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

"That's the logic behind the stimulus plan. Will it work? I hope so. Anybody got a better idea?" 
------------------------------- 

Here's the fatal flaw in that logic: NOBODY trusts government any more. And can you blame them? Do you?

But sell my trains? HA! Never happen!


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## Guest (Feb 28, 2009)

The logic behind the stimulus plan is this. When the economy starts to go bad, people pull up the drawbridge ... --they draw in and spend less--which makes the overall problem much much worse. 

right on point, sir! 
but why then, when it would be desirable, that the people spend more - all over the world the goverments give the stimulus moneys to Banksters and Corporatesters? 
money, that has to be brought up by the people? you and me? 
money, that we can't spend, to keep economy going... 

[thoughtfullness]what have all heads of goverments in common? - they have to campain, to get elected. 
where does the campain money come from? 
where will be their loyality after being elected?[/thoughtfullness]


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

With out getting politics involved, I think part of the WWII equation was a large number of the "work force" was "employed" buy the armed forces? As to "will it work"? Does anything the fed sets out to do work the way they tell us it's going to???Better Idea, how about this: all "elected" Gov. employees take a "temporary" 50% pay and benefits cut. When they finish going thru the budget and reduce it by 5% over last years, then they can have their full pay, provided that does not put the new budget "over the new budget limits" I know there are 100 reasons we could not do this, but boy I wish we could...


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Lownote:

I have an idea, won't go so far as to say it's better, but how 'bout the government stop spending money it doesn't have (deficit spending--except in wartime) and we all learn to live within our means?

Les


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## jmetzger (Oct 15, 2008)

I was sent this in an email today and thought I would just send it along since the topic seems to be about our government and how it seem to know what is better for all of us. 

"The Proposal" 



When a company falls on difficult times, one of the things that seems to happen is they reduce their staff and workers. The remaining workers need to find ways to continue to do a good job or risk that their job would be eliminated as well. Wall street, and the media normally congratulate the CEO for making this type of "tough decision", and his board of directors gives him a big bonus. 



Our government should not be immune from similar risks. 



Therefore: . . . . 



Reduce the House of Representatives from the current 435 members to 218 members and Senate members from 100 to 50 (one per State). Also reduce remaining staff by 25%. 



Accomplish this over the next 8 years. (two steps / two elections) and of course this would require some redistricting. 



Some Yearly Monetary Gains Include: 



$44,108,400 for elimination of base pay for congress. (267 members X $165,200 pay/member per year. 



$97,175,000 for elimination of the above people's staff. (estimate $1.3 Million in staff per each member of the House, and $3 Million in staff per each member of the Senate every year) 



$240,294 for the reduction in remaining staff by 25%. 



$7,500,000,000 reduction in pork barrel ear-marks each year. (those members whose jobs are gone. Current estimates for total government pork earmarks are at 15 Billion per year). 




The remaining representatives would need work smarter and would need to improve efficiencies. It might even be in their best interests to work together for the good of our country. 



We may also expect that smaller committees might lead to a more efficient resolution of issues as well. It might even be easier to keep track of what your representative is doing. 



Congress has more tools available to do their jobs than it had back in 1911 when the current number of representatives was established. (telephone, computers, cell phones to name a few). 



Note: Congress did not hesitate to head home when it was a holiday, when the nation needed a real fix to the economic problems. Also, we have 3 senators that have not been doing their jobs for the past 18+ months (on the campaign trail) and still they all have been accepting full pay. These facts alone support a reduction in senators & congress. 



Summary of opportunity: 



$44,108,400 reduction of congress members. 



$282,100,000 for elimination of the reduced house member staff. 



$150,000,000 for elimination of r educed senate member staff. 



$59,675,000 for 25% reduction of staff for remaining house members. 



$37,500,000 for 25% reduction of staff for remaining senate members. 



$7,500,000,000 reduction in pork added to bills by the reduction of congress members . 



$8,073,383,400 per year, estimated total savings. (that's 8-BILLION just to start!) 



Big business does these types of cuts all the time. 



If Congresspersons were required to serve 20, 25 or 30 years (like everyone else) in order to collect retirement benefits there is no telling how much we would save. 



Now they get full retirement after serving only ONE term! Why do they need/deserve full retirement after only one year. Maybe, at most, a pro-rata retirement like 10% per year. 





IF you are happy how the Congress spends our taxes, then just delete this message. 

IF you are NOT at all happy, then I assume you know what to do.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Allan W. Miller on 02/28/2009 5:07 PM
"That's the logic behind the stimulus plan. Will it work? I hope so. Anybody got a better idea?" 
------------------------------- 

Here's the fatal flaw in that logic: NOBODY trusts government any more. And can you blame them? Do you?

But sell my trains? HA! Never happen! 



Someone at the bar asked me how much I had invested into this layout. I gave him my estimate, which included construction of two buildings for housing the model towns and an expensive elevated line that extends out from the bar about 250 feet. With all the pieces I have purchased just in the last three years, the value is quite high, BUT I also explained that I did not build it with the intention of selling it or otherwise attempting to recover my investment. I explained that although the layout includes many collector's items, I deliberately threw away the boxes which give those pieces a much higher value because each element of the layout is integrated into the whole and that the layout is one single piece of investment that can only have its value depreciated over time. That value cannot be recovered under ordinary circumstances and certainly under present economic conditions. I see it as spent vacation money except the vacation never quite ends.


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## Duncan (Jan 2, 2008)

Why is there a need for a stimulus plan?? 

People got greedy. 

Homeowners saw a near record increase in the perceived value of their homes, and elected to capitalize on that by refinancing, taking that "free" cash and spending it on things that might not have been really ncessary. I know, defining "necessary" is a little hazardous... Then all of a sudden, they were in over their head on monthly expeditures, resulting in defaults on financial obligations. 

Other folks got sucked into "creative" financing and loans for homes that they were in no way qualified for. House prices were skyrocketing (all on speculation), and coupled with the perception that home values would continue to rise, people figured that they could take an ARM, refinance in a couple of years (before the rates really made a significant impact), and ride out the storm... 

Banks got greedy, trying to capture more market share of the mortgage business, and made loans to people who had no business owning a home (and let's NOT get into any semblance of an argument about who deserves their own piece of the American Dream...), or wished to buy more home than they could afford... 

Then things started to stagnate, or take a down turn as interest rate schedules began to mature (jump, if you will)... 

People started to see their investments turn to smoke (figuratively, not literally), and decided that they were better off abandoning their financialy responsibilities. 

Banks started to see a huge increase in unpaid debts (not just mortgages, but credit cards, too. pay the mortgage, or pay the card?? maybe neither!!) 

The spiral starts. 

Tack on the monsterous late fees for any hiccup in debt repayment, and watch the world dissolve. Oh, you can't afford the payment due?? Well, let's just jack that unaffordable amount up another $20, $30, $40...) 

Folks declare bankruptcy, or just walk away from their obligations, thinking that the worst that can be done to them has already happened. 

Now the banks are stuck with a huge mess, and refuse to acknowledge that they are solely to blame for their own mess, and beg for help... 

And so do the homeowners that haven't already been kicked out of the homes that they shouldn't have been approved (by whatever credit agency) for in the first place. 

Things start looking really shaky. 

"We" need help. 

I believe that the "We", needs to look at their own failings, and figure out how they re going to fix it. On their own. Without outside assitance. Like just about any other business that makes poor business decisions. You succeed on your own, or you fail on your own. 

Don't ask me to carry your over-paid, lard @$$, business ignorant debt load, because you are dumber tha a box of rocks... 

And *NO*, I do not owe *ANYONE* a piece of *MY* slice of the American Dream... 

I have worked very hard to be where I am no longer (witness the degradation of our 401K's to 201K's) and I refuse to willingly give my *profits* to those who desire them, simply because they are in need. 

Their salvation or preservation should be based solely upon their contribution and value to society... 

Rant off...


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

As usual Duncan...ON DA MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There IS an orderly process for fixing a company that is over their head in debt....it's called BANKRUPCY...and it frequently leads to a revitalized company after the process completes. And, ya know what, it works for folks that stupidly got in over their heads in the real estate/investment/kickback/bribe market...cept, usually in reverse. 

Most folks do NOT know that the NEW bankrupcy laws passed by our fabled Congress last year make it almost impossible for anyone working and earning a salary to "walk away" from a mortgage. Under the new law, the mortgage holder can easily attach their salary. So....for practical purposes, there's no walking away anymore.


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## Brakedrum (Mar 1, 2009)

WITH THE ECONOMY I WILL KEEP THE TRAINS AND PLAY WITH THEM AS THEY ARE PAID FOR AND ENJOY THEM AND THE OTHER HOBIEST.


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

Duncan's point is well taken - do I want to bail out the morons on wall street who bet everything on perpetually-rising housing values? Or thought it was wise to create and trade millions of derivative securities based on obviously risky mortgages? No. But - unless you "don't care" about the economy and overall welfare of the country - we don't have much of a choice. Because these fools decided to insure each other's mortgage-based holdings through credit default swaps, the moment Lehman went belly up, the entire banking system began to crash like a house of cards. Currently, the corporate M&A market is dead because the banks are terrified of lending anyone money and the consumer credit market is just as bad - as a result, the economy has basically ground to a halt. While I agree that families shouldn't live beyond their means and that corporations over-leveraged themselves, the availability of credit is absolutely crucial to any capitalist economy (unless you're operating under Islamic law, I suppose). I don't see any way around a solution that involves shoring up and rescuing the financial sector. 

Until this September, I had been operating under the illusion that unregulated markets ALWAYS operated more efficiently than regulated markets and that self interest/rational decisionmaking would prevent an entire sector from leveraging itself into oblivion. I - together with Allen Greenspan - was wrong. 

Also, Mike is totally right with respect to the bankruptcy laws. Nice priorities, eh? The larger bankruptcy law also make it much easier for creditors (specifically, Visa, Mastercard, and AMEX) to access a bankrupt individual's assets, etc.


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## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

Lets just eliminate all debt and let everyone keep all of thier assets real or other. In this computer age all it would take is one push of a button.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

This is just the start. It's going to get a whole lot worse! I'm scared not for myself or my wife but for my kids and grandkids! I keep thinking about that line that "...our experiment in Democracy will last only until the majority realizes that they can vote themselves the largesse of others. Two "Republics" come to mind; the first being the Roman Republic (and look what happened to it!) and more recently, the Weimar Republic! Look up their histories and see how they parallel what is happening in this country. The scary part is that it's happening so fast that the checks and balances that were put into our system of government to keep this from happening have been totally circumvented! By the time the populace wakes up from their stupor and can actually admit that they allowed it to happen it will probably be too late! I pray to God I am wrong....


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

What we have is a system that privatises the profits and socialises the losses. 

Hands up those who think that is fair?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 03/01/2009 9:17 PM
What we have is a system that privatises the profits and socialises the losses. 

*Hands up[/i]* those who think that is fair?


I wonder how many people will catch your pun?!?!?!?!


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Charles, I would have thought that was more *Hands In*. The till that is.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

"Hands up" is the perfect phrase under the circumstances.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, part of the problem is all the people that want a "Hand OUT"... 

But your pun (or double entendre) is usually "Hands up" that is followed by "This is a stick-up!" 

That is definitely one private person profiting via the losses of the social collective... on the other side of the gun/tax/extortion/deficit spending/etc.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Yup. Those big time bankers sure know how to get the most out of the system, with no return for the people.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Umm... Let's try and stick to trains guys.. This topic is too political in nature.. There are other forums to discuss political matters.


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Well here is my Â½ cent. I think it is obvious to even a old Marine with a high school diploma that the banking / mortgage sector, with the US Governments help has screwed the old pooch BIG TIME! By the results of the last election most of the people in this country (including some of my in-laws) still have not figured out that the government HAS NO MONEY!! The government has your and my money - period. So, bail out â€" stimulus or hold up, or anything else you want to call it is being financed right out of old Tedâ€™s pocket and that is the same one my train money comes out of. I could say this makes me angry but that would be the biggest understatement sense Noah looked up and said â€¦ (Looks like rain). I like John, have stopped watching the news because they are piping fear into the homes of Americans like the Nazis piped the gas. I have seen better integrity at a dog fight. Well I guess they gotta make a buck too even if it hurts the country. You can bet the farm (if you still own one) that the congress will take care of themselves - no matter what. 
Having said this I am announcing the demise of the GYT&S RR at its current location and the move to new property about 38 miles from here in Salome AZ. It will be rebuilt bigger and better on 2 acres of land instead of 1. Also my neighbor is a G scaler and we will be combining our track to make a mainline of close to 4000 ft. I will continue to buy â€œMore Powerâ€�, more rail and more rolling stock as long as I can. Because I believe that it is my God given right as an American to do so. I also believe this country will recover from this mess and continue to be the best place on this planet to live. 
God bless America! 
Ted


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

In the spirit of the times but with respect toward forum rules, I have decided to accelerate the evolution of my railroad. Currently, it has about 60% perennials with 40% annuals planted each year. In light of possible economic woes I have decided to plant _more _perennials so I won't have to keep buying more annuals each year!


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