# AN OLD, NEW BRIDGE



## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all,
Trying to add visual interest to an outdoor table top railroad is sometimes problematic and other times just difficult.
In one area I had left an 8 foot long depressed area planning on filling it with something like a canyon in the future, well the future got here,
and sooner than I expected.

The bridge itself was built several years ago and served on the old, in the dirt, railroad. The trestle bents and timbers are all of new construction,
accounting for the color difference in the construction.

Anyway here are some picts.


Here is an overall shot of the new (old) bridge across the South Fork of the Trinity River on the Shasta Pacific Railroad.
Some of you may recognize the bridge from Clear Creek Colorado fame. I did one in Ho and in O so just had to do one in Large Scale.












The North side of the canyon showing the bents and the rock walls.









The South canyon wall, boy, the pictures sure looked better before being reduced down to fit here.






























Thanks for looking.
Rick Marty


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,

Very nice looking bridge. THX for posting.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Rick 
Fantastic bridge work, I like the cement work, what recipe do you use for your cement. I like how you do the raised road bed. 
Dennis


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick, 

That bridge looks super!!! Very nice stonework too. Is it cast or did you use real rock in it. I have a gap that needs filling shortly too and your stonework on the canyon walls would fill the bill perfectly


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## Don Gage (Jan 4, 2008)

Very, very nice work R.W., 
The recycled bridge looks really great sitting on the bents and custom rock work. 
I have been messing with Woodland Scenics foliage clusters outdoors. I placed it 
on the base of a tree stump to blend it into the surrounding terrain, four months ago 
and have no appreciable color change, despite it being summer. If you are considering 
using some weeds and vegetation, keep this stuff in mind. 
Your project looks great! 
DG


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Rick, just as a FYI, the max width has been changed from 640 to 800.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice work Rick. I really like the way you integrated the bridge into the raised layout.

Thanks


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Good job with proper footings under the bents. Nice to see that done correctly. Many people will put timber bents right into the dirt without a sill and footing, as if they were driven piles. Structurally incorrect bridges, which seem to be more common in large scale than in the smaller scales (maybe just because I see them), are a pet peeve of mine. But I keep my trap shut . . . not my railroad.


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

What type of wood do you typically use for outdoor bents and bridges? Also do you stain and seal them? I'd like to build some of my own.

BTW really good job, I love recycling, very classy.


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all,
Thanks for the interest. I have been out of town for a couple days and just getting back to this.


Hi Gary,
Thank you. Are Dave and Nancy back yet?

Denray,
The base is just the burlap over wire form, the burlap is soaked in Plastc Cement at pancake dough consistency.
For the rock casting and stucco overcoat I use a mix of 1 part Monterey sand (#30) and 2 parts plastic cement.
I think the sand gives the texture a little more tooth and softens some of the lines.


Richard,
The "rock work" is all "cast and scratched" I just used heavy duty aluminum foil crumpled up.
Remember the old Hydrocal days? same method. Just applied over the base (wet down) described above.

Hi Don,
Thanks for the tip. I will have to give that stuff a try. I have used the cheapie paint brush bristles for upright 
grass/weed clumps and they have held up real well for over 2 years now.

Steve,
I tried that 800 business a month or two back and someone came along and linked them because they were to big.
Then again maybe it was some other reason.

Jim,
We try to keep it as accurate as possible but even so a few structural errors/mistakes always creep in, hopefully they 
are never to glaring.

Bighurt ?
I use pretty much just Redwood and sometimes Western Red Cedar for all outdoor lumber. The bridge itself was built from 
"old growth" Redwood while the trestle bents came from 2nd, 3rd, or maybe 4th growth Redwood. If you look closely at the
last picture you can see a dramatic wood grain difference between the bridge wood and the bent wood.

As for sealer/preservative for the wood, I'm not sure I should say what it is as all the greenies around might get 
their shorts in a knot.

Thanks again for the interest and compliments.
Rick Marty


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick,

I was going to give them a call tonight. They're having too much fun on the cruise, I guess.


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Thanks,

With the new VOC compliance looming alot of the treatments are going to be changing in the near future. At least with oil based products. I was just curious.

I did notice the grain difference which is why I had thought you might have used different wood vs old or new growth.

Redwood is not available locally to me but I can get Cedar, and am familiar with it as far as stain and treatment.

Jeremy


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bighurt on 27 Sep 2009 05:17 PM 
Thanks,

With the new VOC compliance looming alot of the treatments are going to be changing in the near future. At least with oil based products. ...


Jeremy 


Can you explain what you mean? What's about to happen? Is this a good time to go "buy the store"??? (Sorry for the hijack of the thread...)


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## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi, Rick

Just found this topic. SUPER work, as is usual for you. Very nice, very impressive.

I sent a link to this thread to a friend who talks about wanting to build an eight foot trestle for the DC&M. I figured I might as well give him some very high standards of workmanship to emulate.

Thanks for the pictures.

Dawg


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

Can you explain what you mean? What's about to happen? Is this a good time to go "buy the store"??? (Sorry for the hijack of the thread...) 



I'm not full up on the topic as much as some fellow woodworkers, mainly because I stick to WB products but anyone using oil based finishes should definitely look at the 2010 VOC regulations.

Environmentalists getting their way...


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,
Well thanks very much but all that smoke is only going to make all of us cough







.
A long trestle would look cool on your line, helps break up the linear effect of the table tops.
Re-check Smith's layout for the effect.


Jeremy,
Be sure the fence pickets are dry and seasoned before using and apply the special sealer after assembly as it will prevent glue from sticking.
But you probably already knew these things.

Thanks guys
Rick Marty


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## Bighurt (Sep 15, 2009)

I usually let my lumber dry on one of my racks for a year or so before I work it...not always on purpose...LOL

I have quite a few projects in work or up and coming, so this may go on the back burner but I need pickets for next years fence addition anyways.

How do you think 50 yr old fir will look...


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeremy,
Fir may work well provided it is treated regularly and is where it can dry out between soakings and is not in contact with the ground.

I have tramped old logging rail lines where Fir was used 1890-1920 for trestle bents as well as ties and cribbing and it is in remarkably good shape 
especially the trestle work where it can dry out between soakings.

Later
Rick Marty


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Someone mentioned Hydrocal. That brought me back to my HO days. I recall I was pretty good with that stuff, although I used Ultracal because Hydrocal wasn't available locally (25 years ago). 

Anybody know how it would stand up outdoors? I can see where I could make use of its properties: lightness of weight being the predominent advantage in building some "mountains" in a yard that is devoid of rocks over 2 inches in size. I would think that HO-size details in G-scale rocks would be easy to do. Would I have to use paint for color, or would those dry paint pigments I used in HO adhere in adverse weather conditions? 

jack 

(I just know this is gonna get shot down real good. Would it melt like a cake in MacArthur Park?)


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

In my trade as a Die Sinker (now retired), we used BOTH hydrocal AND ultracal for making plaster tracing models for use on hydrotels for tracing models. The hydrocal is a whitish color when dry and ultracal has a green look. Hydrocal is strong, but ultracal is much, much stronger. We used to store the old plaster models outdoors at the shop in all kinds of weather (except snow-don't know what that is in So Cal) and there was never any deterioration. Impervoius to oils also. We used to keep about a hundred, one hundred pound bags of each. Good stuff.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Reeeaallllllllyyy! Ultracal holds up well in all kinds of weather! Another project has been added to my list of things to do this winter. I'll get myself a bag of the stuff, build a small wooden frame of some sort, wad up a bunch of newspaper to the shape of a few big rocks, cover them with paper towels dipped in Ultracal, let dry and put the resultant "rocks" outside until Spring and see what happens. 

Nothing like dripping wet plaster on the floor! 
jack


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Let me explain how we used Ultracal and Hydracal in our model making. We DID NOT use thin coats of each like you will be doing with paper. IF we did do thin coats, we dipped a stringy product like shredded wood (hard to describe) actually looked like very course wool. What you have in mind WON'T work. I'll see if I can get you more information.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I just called my old employer for some information on the material used to strengthen THIN molds. It was hemp-rope material. I don't have any idea where you live, but this is the place we bought our plaster for molds. Here is a link.

http://www.lagunaclay.com/catalog/pdf/lcc_plaster.pdf

Laguna Clay in the City of Industry, here in So Cal, is where we bought all our plaster and they should have the hemp also. 

http://www.lagunaclay.com/


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## geb (Feb 15, 2008)

Wow! it has been a long time since I visited the Marty compound. Nice bridge and lots of additional bench work. After checking out Richard's POC and now yours I'm almost intimidated to start my own. 
Bill Gebhardt


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Little did I know there are so many kinds of plaster! I might do some research over the winter whether I should try making plaster mountains, or break my back schlepping rocks around the backyard. Had a hernia operation last April....do I want another? Hmmm.... 

Thanks for the info! 

jack


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bill,
Come on by anytime.
Are you going to make it up to the Park Run on the 18th?



Jack,
Why not use cement for the rockwork and not worry about plaster holding up in the rain?

Later
Rick Marty


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I guess I don't think of concrete as being "thin" enough to give the fine details, compared to plaster. Or is that just my HO years talking?

jack


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack,

It is not concrete that we are talking about. Concrete is a mixture of cement, sand, and gravel (usually 3/4 inch minus). What we are talking about using is a mixture of Plastic Cement, fine sand (#30 grit) and maybe a little Fire Clay. This is a totally different compound than concrete and has the working consistency of the Plaster that you remember. 

It is basically HO scale Hardshell scenery taken outside. The forms are boards and 1/2 inch hardware cloth and/or 1" chicken wire. The base is garden burlap cut into 1 foot squares and dipped into a Plastic Cement/water slurry the consistency of pancake batter and slapped over the wire. When that dries you have the basis of your "hardshell" .

To apply "Rocks" mix up a batch of Plastic Cement and #30 sand, I like 1 sand and 2 cement that seems to give the finish just enough extra texture, A stiff pancake batter mix is best. Crumple up aluminum foil and slap some mix to it and apply to the wet down hard shell. Does all this process sound familiar??

For the areas that aren't rock I wait until all is dry then paint on TiteBond II white glue and sprinkle on crusher fines and dirt, then wet down with a diluted glue mixture.

For color I used Acrylic artist colors in the tube, Phthalo blue, raw umber, raw sienna, yellow ochre, and Black leather dye all diluted in water. These are put in spray bottles and applied at random to the rock and dirt areas. go easy with the blue and yellow and save the black till last to highlight the cracks and crevice's. 

None of this is new with me, it has all been done before, although it is relatively new to large scale. There are a few threads here on MLS about different parts of this and a very good article by Bob Treat in the August 2001 Garden Railways.

Good luck with your venture.
Rick Marty


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## TonyLou (Sep 3, 2009)

Hi, Marty 

Thank you for your pictures of bridge. It is so nice. How big of your layout area ? It seen your garden is so huge. 

Having fun with railroad, 
Tony


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