# Large Scale Noob needs advice



## Bob453 (Oct 16, 2009)

Just got into Large scale after discovering my 2 year old grandson likes choo-choos. Have many prior years of HO experience. Right now my Large Scale empire consists of a single Fn3 K-27. That's it (the price was too low to pass up, and I love the D&RG). SO, if I just want to get a loop of track together indoor for the holidays that is narrow-gauge appropriate. and a controller that will let Declan (and me) hear the chuff, ring the bell, and blow the whistle with some fidelity to the real thing, what recommendations do you have? I don't see any MUing in my future, so dcc is an option, not a requirement.

Your thoughts, oh experienced large-scalers?


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bob, 
welcome to MLS! 

you picked a BIG engine for your first Large Scale loco! 
(not that there is anything wrong with that!  

But the K27 isnt your typical "Christmas Tree Loop" loco.. 
mainly because it requires wider curves than other locos.. 
you will need a 8-foot diameter loop, minimum, to run that loco.. 
(other, smaller Large Scale locos will go around a 4-foot diameter loop) 

If 8-foot is too big for the Chrsitmas tree loop, just get a smaller loco! 
(you know are going to eventually anyway!  

small diesels are good for a christmas tree loop.. 
or a small 0-4-0 steamer.. 

does your loco have sound? 
the Bachmann K27 doesnt come with sound.. 
unless you already installed sound, or you bought it second-hand with sound installed.. 

I dont know much about sound, so I will let others respond about that.. 
just wanted to let you know about the curves!  

Scot


----------



## Bob453 (Oct 16, 2009)

I know about the radius restrictions, I am just wondering who makes the best track for a simple indoor loop (yes, a big loop!) that is narrow-gauge accurate (from a ties point of view). My engine is stock-out-of-the-box, but I am a pretty good builder / modifier, so I'd like to hear from some folks who have added it to their K-27s if possible, and how they are controlling it.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Simplicity, reliability: 

Use sectional track, so that basically cancels scale-looking track. I'd get Aristo stainless, no cleaning of oxide, grandson does not need the hassles. 
If you want code 250, you will be looking at flex track, I think the wrong choice for a christmas loop. 


Get a QSI sound and motor controller, $137, plugs in. Excellent sound, on par with Phoenix. Just plugs into the Bachmann. (I know it says Aristo on the site)











Get the Quantum Engineer $45, will control all the sounds (up to 30 of them) PLUS volume (you WILL thank me), will handle that loco, use any old DC power pack with a couple of amps. 









The above picture shows the Quantum Engineer on top of a normal power pack, it works with any DC pack. The Quantum engineer just goes in series between the power pack and the track, no other wiring. 


Simple, inexpensive. Later if you want you could go DCC (additional cost to loco ZERO), or Airwire and batteries (maybe $250 added to loco). 

This is all plug and play... the Quantum Engineer has a bunch of pushbuttons for the sounds and volume and startup and shutdown sequences, and operates as a "pass through" in DC. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg better up grade the board its outdated







. Later RJD


----------



## Bob453 (Oct 16, 2009)

OK, looks like a box of 5' flex track sections would give a an oval ~ 18' on the long axis and 8 ' on the narrow axis if I go to a minimum 8' diameter. Not a "Christmas tree loop" by any stretch, but one I could still manage. The trick would be getting it to stay in that shape. Have to let my engineer brain (Bradley, BSME, 1979) work on that a bit. I don't think my wife is open to letting that be a permanent feature, and I'm not taking over part of the garden until the spring (oops, did I say that out loud?).


----------



## Bob453 (Oct 16, 2009)

Well, I did some shopping. Track, check. QSI sound card, check. Power supply, quantum engineer, check. Speaker, check. One thing reragrding installation is not clear, in the instructions or on the QSI website. Should the speake be wired to the harness plugged into the main board in the tender, or into the sound card itself? The harness that plugs inti the sound card has a three prong connector (only two of which are used) and the instructions indicate it should be plugged into "the 3 pin speaker connection in the loco". Where that might be, or how that might be achieved is not described I don't think i have one). Someone here has certainly figured thus out already. My inclination is to wire the speaker to the main board connector. What have you done? 

Many additional thanks, 

Bob B


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The instructions are for an Aristo loco. One end of the cable plugs to the QSI, the other to the standard 2 pin socket on an Aristo loco. You will need to wire to the speaker yourself since you do not have an Aristo loco. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Before you start getting all enthusiastic about the K-27 you need to make sure you have the upgraded version. 
The first batch came out with loose counterweights that could cause the motion to jam. 

The easy way to tell is if the tender trucks have metal frames and no obvious wipers on the axles for pick up, you have the upgraded version. 
If the tender trucks do have wipers on the axles you may need to fix the loco counterweights. 

If you want to have correctly timed chuff's with the sound system, you will need to build a transistor inverter for the chuff signal so that it will work with the popular sound systems. Otherwise you will have to use voltage governed chuff rates. 

Good luck.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The QSI's BEMF chuff stays perfectly synchronized to driver speed, so unless you want the chuff exactly at the proper piston position (and the optical system really does not do that anyway), use the BRMF chuff. It is NOT voltage governed, but precisely synced to the rpm, and you set the "gear ratio" to match driver revolutions. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Bob453 (Oct 16, 2009)

It looks like I'm "upgraded" Metal truck frames / no wipers; the couplers already have angled bottm so they don't hang on the pilot, etc. At this point I'll go with the electrical chuff timing. Greg - the speaker wiring - from qsi board connecter to speaker, or original tender board to speaker? 

Thanks, 

BB


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I forget what the connections to the speaker look like in the K, sorry. QSI board to speaker any way you want to wire it. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

looks like a box of 5' flex track sections would give a an oval 
Bob, 

Flex track is not the best choice for a xmas layout that can't be screwed down. As you note, it's tricky to get it to stay in shape. 

Aristo and others make sectional track which will stay where you put it, and will be easier to store after the big event.


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

ok, I'm confused with this Flex track deal. I have been to the understanding that G scale Flex track still needed to be bent into a set curve using a rail bender. Is this true? Or is it actually like HO Flex track where you can bend it into a curved radius by hand, but have to secure it into place so it doesn't want to straighten itself out? 

Randy


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Depends Randy: 

You can bend anything by hand except SS. Will the bend be smooth and consistent? Depends on how good you are. Will you be able to bend it smoothly to the ends? Probably not. 

Aluminum is real easy, brass can be tough depending on the manufacturer. NS is easy in my opinion, since it's only available in 250. Stainless? Forget it, get a bender. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

And once you bend you either are going to cut it to square it up or try and do the staggered joints. Have fun. Later RJD


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

ok, so, what is called G gauge flex track is anything but flex compared to HO gauge Flex track. For the most part, anyone using G gauge flex track better plan on using a railbender. If they don't want to use a railbender, buy sectional track.


----------



## Bob453 (Oct 16, 2009)

Loco is speakered and wired up, works great, thanks for the advice all! 

My grandson will Freak Out! 

Bob B


----------

