# Li-Ion battery for a B-mann climax?



## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

OK i think i found what i want. Just getting some final opinions before i go through with it. 
I found an 11.1v 4400Mah Li-Ion battery for my Climax. I know all the warnings, so that is not a concern. 
Mainly i was wondering what ya'lls thoughts were on the 11.1. volts? I run it now on 12 volts but the size batteries i can fit in the fire box with NiMH technology just doesn't cut it. Speed isn't important as i don't believe the climax will ever set land speed records. So i figure the 11.1 volts should do the trick. I wish i could go bigger but that lil bugger just doesn't have the space. There are a few higher voltage ones but the cost is way out of my league so i'm stickin with this. http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2106 
Any thoughts?


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I put 2100 MAH NiMAH in Climaxes, 14.4V, with RCS and Sierra sound. 
Anything locomotives with Lithiums are not allowed in my shop. 
I get 3 hours run time with trains on grades.


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

I have fitted a number of climax locos with a 14.8v 2400 cube shaped Lithium -ion battery pack. 
It fits well and allows the proper voltage headroom for good long running. 11.1 is a bit shy of what is needed for good ops. Lithium packs usually have a hard cutoff circuit board which will not allow much voltage drop. Your pack is a 3 cell most likely. This is why you are better off with something around 14v, though I did run a climax for years on a 12v pack. The climax will typically draw around an amp in normal ops, with things like lights and sound as variables. Compute your run time from there...1000mah equals 1 hour of running constantly. So your choice is to trade a bit of voltage for a bit of current. You may not need 4400 unless you always need to run 4 hours. Otherwise, why carry more fuel than you need ? Drop the current down and go to 4 cells for the voltage. Very likely the loco wil run better, the motors will stay cooler and eat less power anyway. 
Remember, lower voltage equals more current to do the same work(whatever that work may be) 
Jonathan


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

TOC, where do u put the batteries? Down the boiler? or in the fire box? Once i load the water tank with speaker, phoenix P5 and the airwire there ain't no batteries goin in there. 

I had 2 6v 2/3A 1800Mah packs in the fire box. Nice fit but i was lucky to get 45 minutes of run time out of them. I was very disappointed. I have a B-mann mogul that does much better with the same setup. Possibly a bad pack or cell in the climax but my frustration level peaked with it so i tore out the batteries and decided to make the step to lithium-ion. 

Jonathan, what pack are you using? I was lookin but couldn't find anything that would fit in the usable space. 
Terry


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## Big65Dude (Jan 2, 2008)

If you'd like to see how I powered my B'mann Climax with a Li-Ion battery pack, click on my name below and go to the *"How-To"* drop-down menu and check out the last item entitled: *"Remote Control, battery and sound."* You can also see the finished model in the *"Engines"* section - *"Bachmann's Climax."*


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Jack & Johnathan, what kind of run time do you get out of that battery? 

Jack, I remember talkin to you at the ECLSTS about your climax, i'm the one who made a blatent copy of it , but i can't remember what you said you got out of it for run time. 
Terry


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I have packs made that fit in the boiler. 
Designed so anyone can change them out later. 
Sierra, 1.6X2.8" oval 2 watt speaker in tender, everything fits. 
If you only got 45 minutes on 1800's, something is seriously wrong, either with the batteries or the loco. 

With Sierra, normal use, 55 minutes to about an hour 5 with 700MAH batteries. 
You do the math. 
Put 2100's in (three times more MAH) and we get about....three hours. 

All bets are off with other control systems and sound systems.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

Toc, sure enough i was foolin around with the packs and it would appear that one pack was DOA. I tried to bring it back to life but no go. Kinda sucks cause they were bran spankin new. Can't get my money back though after i cut the connectors off though. 

Oh well, I'm gonna give lithium a whirl. Seems to work well enough for my laptop and cell phones...... 
Terry


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

We'll watch for the CNN breaking news on another Lithium Battery blowing up, this time in oHIo........


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## Schlosser (Jan 2, 2008)

Jonathan's statement " Remember, lower voltage equals more current to do the same work(whatever that work may be)" doesn't jibe with me. 

Current is the CONSEQUENCE of voltage. Current can do work; voltage, by itself, can do no work. Batteries on a shelf are not doing work. 

The working Ohms Law formula is this one: I equals E over R. You want more current to do more work? Lower the resistance or raise the voltage. 

The LIFE of a battery is a different ballgame. The Ampere-Hour rating means just that, the more amps you take out, the shorter the time. And if you are wasting voltage by dropping it through a resistor (or low controller setting), then by all means remove the resistor and use a lower voltage battery, yielding the same current but not wasting the power used to heat up the resistor (or controller on a higher setting). 

Art


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Arts comments and description are correct as applied to a purely electrical system .However, we are dealing with an electro mechanical system that is performing mechanical work.. Example.I can get the same train up the same hilll with a 12 v battery or a 15 v battery. After doing this work, the 12v pack will be hotter and more discharged than the 15v. It has taken longer, and the motor in question has operated much closer to stall. A motor at stall is essentially a full short circuit, infinite current and no voltage at all. Discharges your pack very quickly . Batteries on a shelf are not doing work because there is no circuit . In other words, the cells worked harder to pull the weight up the hill with less voltage(pressure ) to work with. Modern control systems do not use resistors to limit output and consequently waste energy. Any contemporary well designed system will use some flavor of switching/voltage chopper output. 
jonathan


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