# Bachmann's coupler changes - what's going on?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

It has been a few years since my last purchase of Bachmann locos and rolling stock. Apparently a lot has been happening over at Bachmann.

I just purchased a used Bachmann Porter, flatcars and caboose. They all came with Kadee couplers and I had assumed the owner had replaced the original Bachmann hook and loop or knuckle couplers with Kadee couplers but now it appears to me that he converted the Ely Thomas Porter and the Ely Thomas Caboose but that the 20' boxcar and flatcars came from Bachmann with Kadee couplers already installed. 

Is Bachmann now shipping everything with Kadee couplers only? Is Bachmann providing some sort of easy conversion to change from the Kadee couplers to hook and loop and or knuckle couplers? 

Some of the instructions seem to indicate that a special tab and knuckle coupler are available that would interchange with the Kadee coupler but I did not find anything in writing about keeping new Bachmann rolling stock with Kadee couplers compatible with older Bachmann rolling stock with hook and loop couplers.

I have not been paying any attention to what Bachmann has been doing so it is quite possible that this information is readily available but if so I have not found it.

Any ideas?

Jerry


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Stuff I have been getting has bachmann's knuckle coupler installed, and I have to cut and shim to get KD at the right height, body mount that is. Does not apply to Spectrum rolling stock, have not purchased any of it yet.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Perhaps it is the Spectrum line that Bachmann is converting.

The Ely Thomas Porter I bought apparently came with knuckle couplers and was cut to fit the Kadee couplers. When I look at the Bachmann site instructions it shows the Porter as being a Spectrum model with DCC capability and a smoke but with knuckle couplers. The one I have (probably an older model) does not have any switches or smoke unit.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-.../82596.jpg
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-.../G825X.pdf

The 20' Flatcar also seems to be a Spectrum model and it came with Kadee couplers. It is illustrated with regular knuckle couplers.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-.../95627.jpg 
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-..._IS001.PDF


And the boxcar is also listed as a Spectrum model and came with Kadee couplers but their site photo seems to show regular knuckle couplers.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-.../95327.jpg
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-..._IS001.PDF

The Ely Thomas caboose appears to be discontinued and the current logging caboose still appears to have knuckle couplers.

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-.../93170.jpg

I should add that this is not a complaint. Bachmann seems to be upgrading their Spectrum line but it does seem to be leaving those of us who prefer knuckle or hook and loop couplers behind. I am wondering if Bachmann has not come up with an easy to install knuckle or hook and loop coupler for those of us who do not wish to convert to Kadee couplers.

The train I bought came at a very good price but I wonder if the Kadee couplers might have been a reason why someone else had not bought it before me. Kadees are nice but rolling stock that has been cut and modified to fit them is worth a lot less to me as a buyer because I have to figure in my cost and work to try to convert them back to hook and loop or regular knuckle couplers.

Jerry


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,
To the best of my knowledge, Bachmann has not changed to Kadee for their coupler design. I'm not sure how you got rolling stock that was new that had them attached. That's very strange! If Bachmann _had_ changed over, you would have thought they would advertise it like crazy! So far, nada. Whom did you purchase it from? Is it possible that "new" is a subjective term in this instance?


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I just purchased a new boxcar and flatcar, both are spectrum, and they came with the crappy bachman couplers.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Steve Stockham on 02 Mar 2011 08:18 AM 
Jerry,
If Bachmann _had_ changed over, you would have thought they would advertise it like crazy! So far, nada. Whom did you purchase it from? Is it possible that "new" is a subjective term in this instance?


Here is what I found straight from "the horse's mouth" so to speak:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/je...Boxcar.pdf











Flatcar:


http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/je...latcar.pdf











This is what I downloaded from the Bachmann Forum and it matches the flatcars and Ely Thomas Boxcar that I bought used at the Great Northwest Arkansas Train Show Saturday.

All I know is what I have and what I found.

Perhaps Bachmann is holding back on a new product announcement in order to give their dealers time to move old inventory. I am not saying or suggesting anything as fact beyond what I found on my slightly used flatcars and boxcar.

Perhaps Bachmann provided a mount for the Kadee couplers and the owner installed the Kadee couplers and perhaps Bachmann provided a new type of coupler that is interchangeable with the Kadee couplers. The fact is that the Bachmann images confirm that the trucks DO NOT have the traditional tongue with a mount for a hook and loop or regular knuckle coupler.

I was not trying to start anything. I had assumed this was old history and I would be told where to find what I was looking for. Perhaps someone will want to swap whatever they have with hook and loop couplers for what I have with Kadee couplers. They are tiny Kadee couplers but they do say Kadee on them. I have nothing against Kadee except for the fact that I intend to substitute my LGB Corpet Louvet loco for the Bachmann Porter and I am using a LGB 4135s sound boxcar for sound and the 4135s has buffers that prevent me from putting LGB knuckle couplers on it or I would probably not be concerned.

This is the sort of situation that works both ways. I would have been happier with the old trucks with tongue mounted couplers while others who got that would prefer the body mounted Kadees. It is tough to be a manufacturer or dealer trying to keep everyone happy.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By jake3404 on 02 Mar 2011 08:26 AM 
I just purchased a new boxcar and flatcar, both are spectrum, and they came with the crappy bachman couplers. 

Are they the 1:20.3 ACF Wood Boxcar and 1:20.3 ACF Wood Flatcar?


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

The so called 1:20.3 boxcars and flatcars you show above have body mounted couplers, but the knuckles are definitely Bachmann.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 02 Mar 2011 10:02 AM 
The so called 1:20.3 boxcars and flatcars you show above have body mounted couplers, but the knuckles are definitely Bachmann. 

So Bachmann has a body mounted knuckle coupler? Do they also happen to have a body mounted hook and loop coupler?


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 02 Mar 2011 10:26 AM 
Posted By Del Tapparo on 02 Mar 2011 10:02 AM 
The so called 1:20.3 boxcars and flatcars you show above have body mounted couplers, but the knuckles are definitely Bachmann. 

So Bachmann has a body mounted knuckle coupler? Do they also happen to have a body mounted hook and loop coupler?

Well, I think they do come with hook and loops, but I always just toss them, so I can't say for sure.


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## TrotFox (Feb 15, 2008)

It looks like they developed a Kadee-compatible body-mount box for their own couplers... which is an awesome thing because you can just swap the boxes and have it look factory. this is what I suspect has happened with your used cars.  

Trot, the deducing, fox...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, just to make sure where you are "at" Jerry, your guess about Kadees coming from Bachmann was really based on how well the Kadee couplers mounted to the 2 cars. 

It's clear Bachmann is not oem'ing Kadees. 

Putting the proper pad for a Kadee body mount is great, just took them 10 years longer than USA Trains! 

Greg


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jerry / Greg 

Kadee now makes a replacement "E" type coupler [only] that attaches to the Bachmann coupler shank. You don't replace the box or anything, just the coupler "head". Part is #916 for G [nominally correct for 1:20.3].


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry 

I have a fair amount of Bachmann 1:20.3 equipment and all my 1:20.3 rolling stock and all my spectrum locomotives released since the K27 come with body mount couplers at the NMRA height using an NMRA coupler box which is very similar to the 830 box Kadee makes. They also are shipped with couplers that can be used for the lower 1:22.5 height. The knuckles are all the bachmann oversized ones. 

As other have said, the 830s are an easy replacement or you can just replace the head using a new Kadee coupler. 

Body mounted couplers work great for larger radius but not so good for tight radius which is why most of the 1:25 Bachmann equipment still have truck mounter couplers. 

Hope this helps explain things. 

Stan Ames


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I am in an awkward position in that I am not the original purchaser of the Bachmann train. I have looked again and some of what I had said before was incorrect.

1. The Ely Thomas Porter apparently did not come with Kadee couplers but was modified to fit them (I was correct here)

2. The Ely Thomas caboose apparently did not come with Kadee couplers but was modified to fit them (I was correct here)

3. The Ely Thomas Boxcar came (to me) with the small tongue-less trucks with small metal wheels. The boxcar has body mounted Kadee couplers but I was mistaken in that the Bachmann diagrams do not show the Kadee "hoses" so apparently the original owner replaced whatever Bachmann had furnished with Kadee couplers.

4. I was totally mistaken on the flatcars in that I had looked at the Bachmann drawings and incorrectly thought that was what I have. What I really have are Bachmann flatcars that have the traditional full size metal wheels and truck tongue but with the tip cut off to fit the Kadee couplers.

I am still somewhat confused in that I can convert the flatcars to hook and loop (not as well as if the tongues had not been cut) and I can sort of fix the caboose but I still don't know (understand?) if there is a body mount hook and loop coupler that will fit the Ely Thomas Boxcar.

I can "fix" it by installing a set of trucks and wheels from a LGB 2-4-0 tender but I would have to do some minor cutting which would affect putting the trucks back on the 2-4-0 tender. A body mounted hook and loop coupler would be a much better choice.

Someone may have explained this but I am unfamiliar with Kadee and Bachmann parts and terms.

Now if someone wants to swap their uncut Bachmann trucks with or without Bachmann hook and loop couplers for modified Bachmann trucks with FREE Kadee couplers I would be interested in hearing from them. The same goes for the Bachmann 20' boxcar. I would swap the body mounted Kadee couplers for Bachmann body mount hook and loop couplers.

I would make the same offer for a Bachmann bobber or logging caboose frame. I would swap the one I have that has been cut to fit the Kadee couplers (including the Kadee couplers) for an uncut Bachmann caboose frame without couplers.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By StanleyAmes on 02 Mar 2011 06:49 PM 
Jerry 

I have a fair amount of Bachmann 1:20.3 equipment and all my 1:20.3 rolling stock and all my spectrum locomotives released since the K27 come with body mount couplers at the NMRA height using an NMRA coupler box which is very similar to the 830 box Kadee makes. They also are shipped with couplers that can be used for the lower 1:22.5 height. The knuckles are all the bachmann oversized ones. 


Stan Ames 




Hi Stan,

Are the Bachmann body mount couplers available in hook and loop?

Thanks,

Jerry


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry:
With the Bachmann Thomas set there are several coupler options. The basic Thomas engine and cars come with a body mounted H&L. This is too high for the truck mounted H&Ls, ala LGB. They do have a step down attachment in the set that will lower the H&L to LGB height. You might try to find someone who has a Thomas or Percy set to see if they would sell you the conversions. They would have to be screwed or glued to the bottom of the car. My experience with the Bachmann H&Ls on the Thomas set was that they did not flex (rotate) so that they were derailing problems on tight curves(LGB R1). We didn't have problems with R2 and larger.  If the screw has a little slack, this potential problem might be averted.


If all else fails you might try to contact Bachmann, for the step downs.

Chuck N 


This all assumes that the wheel diameters are the same. If they are not, then you could cut down the step down converter to the proper height. Unfortunately, I'm not home and can't get to my Thomas set to check on the measurements and send pictures. Perhaps someone else with a Thomas set can provide the information. Here is a thread talking about the couplers on Thomas.


Thomas couplers 

This is a long thread, but if you go through it there are some comments about the body mounted Bachmann H&L.

Thomas


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry:

If you want H&Ls to be truck mounted, your best choice would be to buy or trade your trucks with someone who has trucks with the tangs and doesn't want them. In my experience removing the button on the end of the tang does not effect the operation or stability of the H&L. If the H&L is screwed in tight into the original holes, they will function fine.

Chuck


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 02 Mar 2011 07:16 PM 


Posted By StanleyAmes on 02 Mar 2011 06:49 PM 
Jerry 

I have a fair amount of Bachmann 1:20.3 equipment and all my 1:20.3 rolling stock and all my spectrum locomotives released since the K27 come with body mount couplers at the NMRA height using an NMRA coupler box which is very similar to the 830 box Kadee makes. They also are shipped with couplers that can be used for the lower 1:22.5 height. The knuckles are all the bachmann oversized ones. 


Stan Ames 




Hi Stan,

Are the Bachmann body mount couplers available in hook and loop?

Thanks,

Jerry


I just checked one of the boxes of my new cars (dang snow keeps the construction phase on hold) and there was no hook and loop stuff that came with the car. I dont think your going to be able to do hook and loop without heavy modification.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 02 Mar 2011 07:16 PM 

Hi Stan, 
Are the Bachmann body mount couplers available in hook and loop?

Thanks,

Jerry

Jerry

I am aware of no manufacturer that makes hook and loop couplers for body mount NMRA style pockets. Bachmann does make hook and loop couplers that are body mount for its Thomas series but they do not fit into the standard NMRA pocket.

The likely reason for this is that hook and loop work best if truck mounted as there is less movement of the hook as the car goes around the curves. Trading or purchasing trucks that have hook and loop couplers is likely the best approach. 

Stan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Stan, do you have the link where the NMRA standard pocket is shown? (obviously on the NMRA web site) 

I was unaware that NMRA had established a "pocket" or any other mounting standard other than possibly coupler height. 

Greg


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg 

Nothing but coupler center line height above the rails. 

See ===> http://nmra.org/standards/sandrp/pdf/S-2_2010.07.pdf 

V/r


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That's what I thought... was hoping there was no new "secret standard" !!!! 

Greg


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't get me started on "Kadee..." 

Thanks, Robert


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Without a possibility for the body mounted H&L couplers to pivot on curves they would be a disaster on the longer 4 axle cars.  If you need H&L your best option as I said earlier is to get some trucks that can be mounted with H&Ls. 

Chuck


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Trading or purchasing trucks that have hook and loop couplers is likely the best approach. 
Unfortunately, you'll lose the 'Spectrum' quality of the trucks. The new 1:20.3 range have detailed metal sprung trucks with those fancy axle boxes. 

Given that the h&l mount is just a 'tang' sticking forward from the truck pivot, it can't be that difficult to make one for the Spectrum trucks.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 03 Mar 2011 09:27 PM 
That's what I thought... was hoping there was no new "secret standard" !!!! 

Greg Greg 

Nothing new, actually vey old 


In 1958 the NMRA coupler committee developed a common coupler box to promote interchange of couplers. 


http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/rp22.html 


This simple and rather basic design has be a adapted by various manufacturers to form the basis of their coupler pockets in a variety of scales. 


Stan


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jerry,

If you want to change trucks check USA #R2030 around $7.50 a pr, these are the same as bachmann [archbarr] and I beleve they come with hook & loop cuplers install, these are just frames no wheels.

chuckger


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes Stan, for HO. No standard for LS (although looks pretty close to a Kadee). 

Being a large scale forum, your statement without the qualifier would naturally be taken to be for large scale. 

All dimensions are in inches, so there's really no applicability except in the concept of having one and/or a flat place to put a "coupler pocket" which I would more correctly term a "draft gear box". 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By chuckger on 04 Mar 2011 04:49 PM 
Hi Jerry,

If you want to change trucks check USA #R2030 around $7.50 a pr, these are the same as bachmann [archbarr] and I believe they come with hook & loop cuplers install, these are just frames no wheels.

chuckger


Hi Chuck,

I appreciate the suggestion. I was not aware the USA trucks were that inexpensive. As it turns out I will be able to use the trucks and fit hook and loop couplers on them but now I am not sure if the flatcars are even Bachmann.

The trucks remind me of Hartland (I think) in that they have a threaded tube to attach the coupler rather than the typical LGB/USA/Bachmann tongue type. Perhaps the flatcars are Hartland rather than Bachmann.





















I can fit some Bachmann or LGB hook and loop couplers to them but I need to widen the mounting hole to get it to fit over the post.

Its the result of buying something used and not paying much attention to the details. I am perfectly happy with the purchase - it is just taking a bit of sorting out to get back to hook and loop couplers (my favorite).

Regarding the boxcar which I am sure is Bachmann, I will just keep the trucks and small LGB metal wheels from one of the LGB 2-4-0 tenders. At least I kept an extra spare tender.

Jerry


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## Robbie Hanson (Jan 4, 2008)

Jerry, that's a Kalamazoo flatcar from the mid to early 1980s. 

EDIT: I'll try to look sometime this weekend; I may still have a Kalamazoo truck somewhere with hook and loops still on it.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Robbie Hanson on 05 Mar 2011 12:11 PM 
Jerry, that's a Kalamazoo flatcar from the mid to early 1980s. 

EDIT: I'll try to look sometime this weekend; I may still have a Kalamazoo truck somewhere with hook and loops still on it. 



Hi Robbie,

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

was hoping there was no new "secret standard" 

_(As Jerry has almost solved his problem, let me follow that thought.) 
_
Aren't you forgetting that uproar last year when NMRA came and asked our opinion of their new "LS" coupler standard? 
NMRA Coupler Standards Proposal - Here we go again!


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