# what RCS/battery systems are out there?



## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Ok, I met a guy this weekend, Garden railroad supply, while I was visiting the inlaws up in the Sf bay area. Sorry but i forgot your name, I'm bad at that.

But I had a nice long discussion with him on various thing including RCS and battery power. So that got me to thinking and looking. I've found a few systems in my search and so hence teh question.

So how many are there that can be used in large scale? Links would be nice.

Also in my search, I did find one that seems to be using a DDC decoder ormat. So can I use a system like this and use my DCC that is already installed, just add in a receiver?

I'm new to this and learning as I go so any help is great. I've got a Digitrax DCC system that I have read up on and played with some. So hence the DCC question.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Crusty, there has been a lot of discussion of this on a thread several down about NCE and Bridgewerks. The author is Puclot.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

So how many are there that can be used in large scale? 
Way too many to count, and I don't know any site that has all the links. 

Yes, there is Airwire, which is DCC over the air but has the rcvr and decoder in one, so you can't use any old decoder. (I think. I use old RCS in my electrics. P.S. RCS is a vendor in Australia - we usually refer to r/c+battery.) 

You can search this site easily if you use Google - just add "site:mylargescale.com radio control" to make the search site-specific. We've discussed all the possible permutations over the years!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The best answer I can come up with is to join a local group and ask questions. Most local groups have people who use different systems. Ask the usual questions: what, why, and does it meet your needs.


Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/DelTapparo/ 
G Scale Graphics (and R/C electronics) 
Made in the USA.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks, I'll do a search on here to see what I can find to read. Just starting my research before I go buy anything.


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Crusty, 

Check out the RCS system, it is nice too as usually will costomize batteries too to get them to fit or make larger ones if you want. 

remotecontrolthrottles.com/


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

OK, I've done some reading. Seems that the Airwire system is very similar to the DCC system I'm using now and I can actually use my DCC equiped locos with their system.

If there is another system that uses the DCC protocal, can you please let me know as I could not find any.

Thanks for your help.


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

If you are doing DCC air wire can do it else QSI decoders can be used with battery but that isnt packaged as a system.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Airwire is DCC, but bundled differently. Instead of a wireless controller talking to a base station receiver that sends commands to multiple decoders over the rails, you've got a wireless transmitter that's sending commands directly to the decoder that has a wireless receiver tuned specifically to that DCC address built into it. You can't control multiple decoders with multiple DCC addresses from a single Airwire receiver. You _can_ control multiple Airwire receivers, each with unique DCC addresses from one handheld transmitter. The Airwire receiver/throttle has its own motor, light, and function outputs built into it; you wouldn't need an additional DCC decoder for that stuff unless you wanted sound. You _could_ attach your existing DCC decoder to the DCC output of the Airwire board, but that's limited to 2.5 amps, and is not intended to drive a motor-control decoder. (Why would it be, since the whole purpose behind the Airwire receiver is to use Airwire's motor control.) 

Airwire does have their new "Convertr" board which is just a receiver to which you can attach any DCC decoder, but it's likewise limited to 2.5 amps. That's okay for small locos and critters, but not anything with any size to it. I keep hearing rumblings of some of the more traditional DCC manufacturers coming out with a similar receiver suitable for large scale, but I've been hearing those rumblings for a few years now, and nothing yet to show for it. 

QSI's "G-wire" receiver works much on the same principle as the Airwire system (and is for the most part compatible with Airwire's throttles). With QSI's G-wire, you'd install the DCC decoder as you would in a traditional track-powered environment, but then attach the G-wire receiver to it, and set the CV on the QSI board to tell it to take its commands from the receiver instead of the rails. (That's with the new "Titan" QSI boards. The older "Magnum" style boards you just plugged in the receiver and it knew as soon as it was plugged in.) Instead of attaching the power input of the decoder to the wires coming from the rails, you'd attach them to the battery power. If your locomotive has a track/battery switch and a "plug-and-play" socket, then you'd attach the battery to the battery input on the PC board in the locomotive, and throw the switch from "track" to "battery." 

You can--in some cases--use QSI's G-wire receiver to control other manufacturers' decoders, but it's not straightforward. I know some guys who use it to control certain Lenz decoders. But there's nothing coming from the manufacturers (QSI or the other decoder manufacturers) in terms of how to hook things up. It's all up to the individual modeler to experiment and see what happens. For me, that's too much money to gamble when I know I can use tried-and-true products from Airwire and QSI both, and get the results I want. 

If you're used to DCC and the level of control it affords you, then either the Airwire or QSI systems will work very well for you. I use both, and am plenty pleased with their operation. 

Later, 

K


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

There are some out of the UK too. 
http://www.peterspoerermodelengineers.com/90275/info.php?p=3 
Cheers, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for the dissection K, really helpful for the most part but still a little confused. here's where I'm at.

I currently have 3 locos.
1. Bachman Spectrum 3 truck Shay with DDC control and Tsunami sound, from the factory. 
2. Bachman Christmas train. Straight DC with smoke. There is basic sound that is powered by a 9V battery in the tender. Not sure if it is a sound card per se or just the chuff sound.
3. Aristo craft Alco F1 A and B units. They are older units that run on DC. They do have lights, and smoke.

So from what I understood, and correct me if I'm wrong, I could use the Airwire Converter for the Shay and have all of it's functions. For the others, I'd need to buy and install Airwire's G3 decoder and a Phoenix P8 sound card. Or go with a QSI decoder.

Does that sound correct? From the way I read the airwire litature, that is how I understood it. And the Shay would run as normal.

Thanks.
Crusty


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Crusty Old Shellback on 28 Jan 2014 07:46 PM 
Thanks for the dissection K, really helpful for the most part but still a little confused. here's where I'm at. I currently have 3 locos. 1. Bachman Spectrum 3 truck Shay with DDC control and Tsunami sound, from the factory. . . .


So from what I understood, and correct me if I'm wrong, I could use the Airwire Converter for the Shay and have all of it's functions. 
Yes, but only if it can use less than 2.5 amps. That 3-truck shay, pulling any reasonable size train, could fry the Converter ?

2. Bachman Christmas train. Straight DC with smoke. There is basic sound that is powered by a 9V battery in the tender. Not sure if it is a sound card per se or just the chuff sound.. It has a sound card, but it only does a chuff, and not very well at that. You should read George Schreyer's "Tips" page www.girr.org/girr/index.html [www dot girr dot org/girr/index dt html if that link doesn't work. ]

3. Aristo craft Alco F1 A and B units. They are older units that run on DC. They do have lights, and smoke. So from what I understood, and correct me if I'm wrong, I could use the Airwire Converter for the Shay and have all of it's functions. For the others, I'd need to buy and install Airwire's G3 decoder and a Phoenix P8 sound card. Or go with a QSI decoder. Does that sound correct? From the way I read the airwire litature, that is how I understood it. And the Shay would run as normal. Thanks. Crusty 
If you are convinced you need DCC then the Airwire or QSI systems will supply what you need. But most of the non-DCC r/c throttles have lights, sound and other triggers besides the motor control. I use an old RCS Elite throttle, which has 4 buttons and is very easy to use and store in my shirt pocket.
[Edit - that link doesn't work - I hope I fixed it even though the HTML looked OK.]


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Bachmann Shay: The question you need to answer is how much current does the Shay draw when running on your railroad? From a purely technical standpoint, you _could_ use the Convertr to drive the Tsunami in the Shay. But it's rated at 2.5 amps continuous, so you'll want to make sure your Shay doesn't draw that much current. I've got a 2-truck Shay on my workbench right now that at full slip on the rails draws 1.7 amps. If I let it slip on a towel (more "grab" against the wheels), it pushes 2.3 amps. 

I'm not going to say "sure, it will work," because I don't know that. I know the Convertr is rated at 2.5 amps continuous, can handle 16 amps peak, and has overheating protection built in. If you're able to read the current draw on the Shay as it runs around your railroad and feel comfortable that it's within the capacity of the Convertr, I'd say give it a shot. If it works, great! You saved yourself some serious money. If it keeps going into thermal shut-down, then replace the Convertr/Tsunami with an Airwire/Phoenix or QSI/G-wire and save the Convertr for a smaller locomotive that you know won't draw near the "red line" in terms of current. 

But--in the purest technical stance, yes--all you'd need to do is hook the output of the Convertr to the track power input on the Shay's main PC board. (Remember to disconnect the wires going to the track, so you don't backfeed.) 

Bachmann Christmas Train: This is the venerable Bachmann 4-6-0 (of which vintage I haven't a clue--there are now 6 versions of the drive on this one). If it's from the past 10 years or so, it's probably the 5th or 6th generation, which are the "good" drives that will give you good service. The "chuff" sound (and I put that in quotes for a reason) is just very basic sound generator that is run by a 9-volt battery. It's not designed to be realistic, only suggestive of a chuff sound. As such, most people pull the board in favor of a real sound system. The G3/Phoenix combination would be a great combo for this locomotive. The wiring on that loco is pretty basic, so installing everything in the tender and running power forward to the loco for lights and motor is pretty straightforward. 

FA-1: I'd go with the QSI/G-wire system. QSI has been re-vamping their sound files, and have a new "Q3" sound file for an Alco engine, complete with "dual prime movers." (i.e., two separate diesel engine sounds.) The QSI is rated at 6 amps (or you can go beefier with a 10-amp board for a few bucks more) which will drive all four motors in the A/B pairing very nicely. It also has a two-channel sound output, so you can put a speaker in each of the two units and feed them independently. You can put the horn and bell and one diesel motor sound to the speaker in the A unit, and then set the 2nd prime mover to only come from the speaker in the 2nd unit. (As an aside, if you go with the QSI system, you owe it to yourself to get the PC programming interface. It makes programming and adjusting the parameters on the QSI boards 1000% easier.) 

I don't think the Alco FA has the "plug and play" socket like other Aristo locos do, being as it's an older-vintage model. But installation of sound and control is still pretty simple. 

Later, 

K


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

OK, thanks. So the Shay would probably be better suited to change out decoder and sound card. 

The Xmas loco was bought new about 3 years ago. 

Good info on the F1's they are old and do not have any plug boards inside and very simple wiring. I can figure it out. Also thanks for the info on the QSI card, sound slike a good setup, otehr than I'll need to run wires bewteen the two units. Maybe batteries in the B unit with a plug between the two so I can seperate them when necessary for work.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

OK, doing a little moer reading, it seems that there are two systems that will meet my needs, on of which is DCC as it make sit moer ompatable with otehr systems. 

So I've got the Airwire system and the NCE Gwire Procab. 

I know of NCE and that a lot of track power DCC guys use and like it. I've been playing with a digitrax system some. 

So any pro's/cons between those two systems? Is one really better than the other, personal opnion aside? 
I've printed out the operators manuals and will be reading them as part of my research.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

For the most part the Airwire controller and the NCE G-wire controller (identical in form to the NCE ProCab) are compatible with each other. A few known issues: 

1) There's some weirdness when programming Airwire boards with the NCE controller. Some CVs can be programmed, others not, so if you're looking to _program_ the Airwire boards, you'll probably want to get an Airwire transmitter to do so. The Airwire throttles will program the G-wire receiver/QSI combination without issue. In terms of just operating the trains (not programming them), there are far fewer issues, but some nits that still need picking. The macros, such as the momentum buttons at the top of the NCE controller, do not work with the Airwire receivers, since they're essentially reprogramming CVs, and as mentioned, you can't reporgram CVs on the Airwire boards with the NCE controller. On the other side (Airwire controlling the QSI decoder), there weren't as many, though I found sometimes the QSI decoder didn't receive certain commands without having to repeat pressing a control button a few times. (Most often, this manifested itself with the whistle getting stuck on.) This was with the older QSI "Magnum" boards. I have not had this issue with the new "Titan" boards much if at all. 

Related to that, I have not tried the NCE controller with the new G3 or Convertr receivers, so some of those programming issues _may_ have been resolved with the new boards. I can't say. I gave my NCE controller to my dad to run a loco I did for him because of the whistle sticking issue I described above. Also, the QSI G-wire receiver has been redesigned with a new processor chip (the old one is obsolete or no longer made or something). That's not quite yet available, and while I don't anticipate any issues between it and the Airwire throttles, there may be some devils in the details that pop up. Just something to keep in mind. 


2) The Airwire throttles do not have a "stop NOW!" emergency stop button. They do have a "stop" button, but it just sets the speed to 0, and the decoder responds accordingly. This isn't so much an issue if you don't use a lot of momentum (CV3 and CV4


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for the write up and nuaiances that the manufactuers don't tell you about.

As far as sound, is the QSI and Pheonix boards about the same? From looking at the web sites, it looks like the QSI has more down loadable files and a little more versatility. Is that true? Or am I missing something?

One of the thoughts behind going with a QSI and using the NCE is that it's all from the same manufacture where as the Ariwire has to use a differnet sound card. AS for night time running, it looks like the new NCE does have it available. But I can always use a flashlight. 

My curent Digitrax controller dosen't have a stop for the speed knob. But it does have 2 knobs so that I can run 2 trains at the same time faily easy.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Crusty. 
I am intrigued as to why you referred to RCS in your header as RCS R/C equipment is most definitely not DCC, but can do quite a bit of what DCC can do. 
So, if you are at all interested in what RCS can do for you I would be delighted to explain it for you.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I'm sorry, I guess I'm used to saying RCS as in Remote Control System as that is how we use the term here at work. I didn't mean a specific system. 

I've looked over your site but it seems that your RCS R/C system does not do all that I am looking at. Or maybe I'm looking for more than what I really want to do? I like the DCC system and it's capabilities as I'm playing with it now. But in the future as I run trains more, will I really use all of those functions? I don't know.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Care to list what it is you want to do that my RCS stuff cannot do?


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Maybe I'm just not seeing it on your site or how it works. 
But the biggest is the various sounds that can be controlled by DCC. Also the consisting of locos, various lights and speed matching. Right off the bat, my Bachman 3 truck Shay has like 8 different sounds just to start with.

If I'm wrong, then please enlighten me. I'm still learning here as a newbie. I want to go battery power so that I don't have to worry about running electrical thru the back yard. Or worry about cleaning track and connections all the time.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

As far as sound, is the QSI and Pheonix boards about the same? From looking at the web sites, it looks like the QSI has more down loadable files and a little more versatility. Is that true? Or am I missing something? 

For my money, they're very much at the same level, and both what I would consider "top drawer" systems. Both are programmable using a PC interface (which I highly recommend in both cases.) With the Phoenix, you select an entire sound package, which includes bell, whistle, chuff, generator, etc. (or prime mover, horn, etc.) They've got a good variety of them available, and you can audition each one on their web site. With the QSI, the new Titan decoders come with a variety of different sounds pre-loaded onto each board for various prime movers, horns, bells, etc. (or chuffs, whistles, bells, airpumps, etc.) You can select these via CVs without the PC interface, but--again--it's easier to do so with it. 

QSI has also just started releasing what it calls its "Q3" files, which are purportedly better than their current "Q2" files. To my knowledge, the only way to get these files is to download them and install them yourself (or have your dealer do it for you, perhaps.) I have not seen a Titan for HO or G scale pre-loaded with the new sounds hanging on the store shelves. This may change in the future as more of these sound files become available, but they've been very slow to roll out thus far (having just an Alco and EMD file currently), and the HO scale sound files always come out before the large scale ones do. The advantage of these files is they're reportedly better recordings. The downside is that they're larger files, so only one prime mover sound can fit on the file, and you're much more limited in terms of bells and whistles that you can choose from. So they're more akin to the Phoenix sounds in that they're a set package; you can't do things a la carte as you can with the older Q2 files. I've not heard them myself, though I anticipate getting one and downloading the new Alco file later this Spring once the new G-wire receivers become available again. I have no qualms with the older Q2 files, so if it's better, it'll be great. If it's not, it'll still be great. 

One of the thoughts behind going with a QSI and using the NCE is that it's all from the same manufacture where as the Ariwire has to use a differnet sound card. 
Technically, the QSI system is sourced from three different manufacturers, but they worked together to design a complete system. QSI makes the decoder, NCE makes the handheld controller, and the G-wire receiver is built on technology that Airwire developed. The G-wire receiver was originally developed to be compatible with the Airwire controllers, as QSI hadn't gotten together yet with NCE to design that controller. 

On the other side, the Airwire board has a generic DCC booster output that can interface with any DCC decoder. So while the Airwire/Phoenix combination isn't made by the same manufacturer, it's built to the DCC standard that all DCC decoders use, so the compatibility is built into the design. 

So concerns about incompatibilities with one system vs the other really don't come into play. The Phoenix and the Airwire work very well together. With the programming software, you can really fine-tune the Phoenix to react very prototypically to changes in the loco's speed. To my thinking, they're interchangeable. I've got the QSI system in two of my locos, Airwire/Phoenix in three of them. If you heard them running in the garden, you'd not be able to tell which is which. 

Later, 

K


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I take your points. 
Yes, compared to DCC RCS is limited in the total number of functions accessible in a sound system. I offer two triggers but it would be possible to have four. Just that I have found over the years that when combined with Phoenix, two is usually enough as most of the other desirable effects can be programmed for automatic operation. 
However, RCS does have: 
+ Speed matching and reversible default direction are part of the operating program. 
+ Consisting is easily done with 2.4 Ghz RCS. It does require turning a loco off and on to do it. 
+ Forward and reverse lighting is built in. 
+ Binding an ESC to the TX is automatic. No binding plug needed. 
+ Proper 300º knob for digital proportional speed control.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks evreyone for all of the info.

Thanks Tony for enlighten me on your system but I don't think it will meet my needs. Maybe because I deal with remote controls systems at work but on a much much larger scale that I'm expecting more.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

OK, I pulled the trigger and picked up a slightly used NCE G wire procabfor a good price.

Now I need to figure what to get for my locos.

Loco #1 New bachman Spectrum 55T 3 truck shay. It already has DCC and sound. So for now, can I just install a QSI G wire receiver? 

Loco #2 Aristo FA1 and FB1 older DC loco's. they run good but have no sound or boards. So I'm guessing the QSI set up with the dual prime movers.

Loco #3 Newer Bachman 4-6-0 Christmas set. I guess another QSI Titan set for steam.

Anything else I'm missing besides the battery set up and programer?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Loco #1 - Most likely not. There _may_ be a chance that someone's successfully connected the G-wire receiver to the OEM Tsunami board that's in the Shay, but it's not a cut-and-dry installation. You'd have to figure out where to connect the + and - voltage from the G-wire to the Tsunami in addition to the DCC signal which (I believe) would go to the "rail" inputs. Might be worth a call to Soundtraxx to see if they could give any pointers, but I wouldn't hold my breath that they can help. A more likely option would be to get the Airwire "convertr" receiver and hook that up to the "rail" inputs of the stock board. Some caveats: First, you're limited to 2.5 amps continuous. I really think you'll be fine there so long as you don't go crazy with the grades and train length. Also, I'm not confident in your ability to program the decoder via the G-wire cab. It may work, it may not. But if you keep the decoder ID set to 3, you won't have to. Before installing the Convertr, I'd use your Digitrax system via the traditional rail pickups to program the motor and sound control parameters on the stock decoder, and to make sure the DCC address is set to 3. Then hook up the Convertr (whose stock DCC address is 3), and it should work. You'll have to use frequency 0 on the G-wire cab. (Note - if you can program the Convertr with the NCE cab, then all this is moot. I've not yet had the chance to try.) Last resort, get a QSI board with G-wire receiver and install it. The stock DCC decoder is connected to the rest of the stock electronics via 4 wires, so it should be pretty easy to swap things out for the new decoder. I did an Aristo (now Crest) Revolution install in some 3-truck Shays for a friend, and I think that's how I patched them in. I don't remember how I hooked the lights up, though. I'd have to go back and check the wiring diagrams. 

Loco #2 - I'd agree; the QSI set up with the new "Q3" Alco sound with the dual prime movers. I might on this one be tempted to get the 10-amp version of the Titan, since you're going to be driving 4 motors off of it. While I think the 6-amp version would likely be just fine even driving 4 motors, an extra $20 for the added capacity falls under the "cheap insurance" category. This would be a "cut and gut" installation, but the wiring in these earlier locos was much simpler than today's, making this a fairly simple task. 

Loco #3 - Same; QSI with a suitable steam file. If you're getting the programming interface, then it doesn't matter which file you get. You can go a la carte and pick the specific sounds you want. 

Beyond that, the batteries and charger. You can go fancy on the chargers if you want to. I just use the inexpensive ones that all-battery recommended. ($25 unless they're on sale for less.) This is my 5th year using them, and they keep doing their job. Other things; toggle switches for power and charging jacks if you're using internal batteries that can't be easily swapped out for charging. Most folks use coaxial DC power jacks. These come with differing size tips; I've found "M" to be fairly common, so that's what I use. Also a 5-amp fuse (15-amp for the FAs) and fuse holder. The Titans have overload protection, but when it comes to electronics (especially $200 sound boards), I find an extra $2 for a fuse and holder as an extra safeguard gives me peace of mind. 

Also, go to allelectronics.com and stock up on 2-pin connectors like this: *2-pin connector*. They're great for connecting batteries, lights, etc. (There are smaller connectors you can use for lights, actually, but you have to buy the male and female ends separately, and they're more expensive.) You can probably get the switches, fuses, etc. at allelectronics as well, but I just get them from my local Radio Shack--if for no other reason than to remind their inventory control software that--on occasion--people actually still buy electronic components from Radio Shack. 

Feel free to PM me for specifics on installations. 

Later, 

K


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks K. 
I sent an Email to QSI and got a reply back about the receiver. Of course he wants me to buy new titan decoders. I'm trying to find out how many amps the receiver is rated for. He also said that he lost his supplier of the receivers and is in the process of redesigning the system. But that it will be backwards compatible. 

Just an FYI, I've been an electronics tech for over 30 years. At one time, I also held my Micro/Minature repair certs. So reading prints, soldering, troubleshooting is right up my alley. I also work with a bunch of electronic engineers.  

Loco #1 Is not the DCC signal also on the power line? From my understanding of DCC, that is how it works, basicaly pulsed DC with the pulses being a binary code. I used something similar to this, but in RF, years ago with some of the missile systems I worked on while in the Navy. Or is it different when you go wireless or are using their receiver? Does the receiver somehow split out the power from the DCC signal? I'll see if I can find a few schematics of the two systems and see what I can do. 

As for the other two locos, I agree. And the 10 amp version for the F1's seems about right. I know that I'll have to be mindful of wiring the motors as the fron and rear motors are mounted oppisite of each other and are therefore wired oppisite. 

I think for loco #2 it would be decoder/speaker/12V battery in the front unit and speaker/12V battery in the rear unit. The batteries would be wired in series for 24V. I'd have to install a plug between them so that I could disconnect them when necessary. But they would always be connceted when running. 

We'll see how things progress and I'll bend your ear some more when needed. Thanks for all of your help.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The G-wire receiver works slightly differently than the Airwire Convertr. In the simplest sense, the Convertr is an on-board command center, though specific to only one address. The power from the batteries goes in (like plugging your command center into your power supply), and a DCC-standard bi-polar square wave (AC) comes out. This can feed any DCC-compatible decoder through the two-wire "rail power" inputs. 

On the G-wire receiver, the model is slightly different. The main power (traction battery voltage) goes directly into the Titan decoder. The decoder then feeds +5 volts DC to the G-wire, which then takes the instructions from the receiver and converts them into a low-power, DCC bi-polar AC signal. The Titan then uses these commands in conjunction with the power from the traction batteries to control lights and sounds. So it's basically getting power from one source, and commands from another. There's no reason to worry about the current capacity of the G-wire since it's just generating the data packets. *Here's a link*  to some wiring diagrams from QSI's web site on how to possibly wire the G-wire to other generic decoders. Getting the 5 volts to the G-wire (via a 5-volt regulator) and the output of the G-wire to the decoder is the easy part. The "trick" is figuring out where to connect the power from the traction batteries to the decoder, since the G-wire output is going to the "rail" input of the decoder. That's where a call to Soundtraxx might bear fruit. That's one of those areas where it seems each manufacturer thinks it's "the other guy's" responsibility to show how to hook the respective products together. 

On the FAs, what kind of batteries are you thinking of using? I've done FAs and PAs for a friend who finds them to run plenty fast at 14.8 volts, while others like to run them a bit faster, liking 21 volts. (I use Li-Ion batteries in my installations.) If you're using Gel Cells or other technology, then I'd agree; one battery in each loco then hook them in series. With the size and capacity of the Li-Ions, I'd be tempted to see if I can fit something like a 8- or 10-amp/hour capacity pack in one loco and go with that. That way you're only charging one pack, and at that capacity--even with 4 motors--you're still looking at 4 - 10-hour run times, if not possibly longer depending on how you run the locos. 

Speaking of the trucks on the FAs, take a look at how they're mounted. The Aristo power truck has one end that is equalized so to accommodate uneven track. Trouble is, on the FAs, they mounted the trucks such that the equalization ends of the trucks are on the inside of the loco. There's not a ton of side-to-side play on the trucks themselves as they're mounted to the frame, so while the trucks can handle twists, the loco is actually fairly rigid with respect to the outer-most axles. A friend of my dad's had an FA that did not like some of the twists in my dad's track. We spun the trucks around 180°, and they rolled right through without issue. Something to think about if you're going to have the trucks off the loco anyway. The "ideal" solution is to iron out the kinks in the track, mind you, but this certainly helps. 

Later, 

K


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks, I'll try contact soundtraxx and see what they say.

As for the batteries, I was thinking of splitting them up to add even weight to each mover. I know G usually runs on 24V hence the 2 12 volt batteries. But if I can go lower, then why not.

I haven't had issues yet with the trucks. They seem to work just fine. Maybe I got them turned around when I disassembled them for painting. I have found a website that details how to lower the body/frame on the trucks to make it look better and am thinking of doing that as well.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Note that LGB dual motor blocks are not cross wired, just tie the same colored wires together. 
USA Trains are cross wired for track and motor power.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Maybe I'm missing something here or I've got the wrong manufature of my locos. But from what I found on line and can remember, they are aristocraft locos, just really old ones.

the trucks mount with a single screw up thru the middle and can articulate around that screw, which would lend me to beleive that uneven track is not an issue. I've found a way to lower them on line and he even tells how to do it so that you still get some articulation.

Here are the locos in question. The front one I had already painted. The wheels/axles are spring mounted and cam move up and down along with the truck block itself being able to articulate.


 
A close up of the trucks.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

At issue is how much the loco can rock side to side without the trucks lifting off the rails. Think of three axes of rotation on each truck. The Z axis is the kingpin. The truck swivels around this to go around curves. The Y axis cuts across the truck (same direction as the axles). This allows the ends of the truck to rise and fall as the loco encounters hills and valleys. The X axis runs down the centerline of the loco, from coupler to coupler. The truck rotates around this axis when it encounters twists in the track where one rail rises or falls compared to the other. 

On the FA I worked on, I found plenty of play along the Z and Y axes, but the play along the X axis was tight. This meant that when the loco encountered a twist in the track, the trucks couldn't rotate along that axis to compensate. As a result, the wheels on one end lifted off the rail. (Think of an uneven table rocking back and forth.) If this occurred on a curve, the loco would almost always derail. Because the trucks couldn't rotate along that X axis, it meant the "rigid" frame ran from one outside axle to the other. The equalization within each truck didn't do much of anything. By spinning the truck around, the "rigid" part went only between the inside axles, and the equalization on the outside axles (built into each truck) compensated better for the twists. 

Ideally, you'd want one truck to be fairly tight along that X axis and the other one to be loose. This creates a "3 point suspension," and allows models to run over fairly uneven track without issue. 

On your locos, see how far you can rock the body of the loco side to side without the wheels lifting off the rails. That'll give you some indication as to if this is something that you might need to worry about. On the FAs I worked on, there wasn't a whole lot of play, and I could only rock the loco just a bit before the wheels lifted off the rails. 

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If things are running for you okay, this falls under the category of "solution looking for a problem." But if you're going to have the loco completely disassembled anyway, you're not going to hurt anything by reassembling the loco with the trucks turned 180°. Just something to ponder. 

BTW, I like the paint scheme. It looks familiar, but I can't place the prototype off the top of my head. 

Later, 

K


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks.
Maybe when I get the logos on it will be more familiar. 

Texas Special passenger service of the Missouri, Kansas & Texas, MKT, from back in the old days. They generally ran F7's but I didn't have one, so I'm using the next best thing, what I have on hand.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Ah ha! I thought Texas was part of it; I was thinking Texas Pacific. 

Later, 

K


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Naw, the Texas & Pacific ran the Texas Eagle which was blue and silver and ran East/West thru Fort Worth. The MKT and Frisco ran the Texas Special and ran North/South thru Fort Worth.

I grew up in Fort Worth but wasn't into trains back then. I was building a N scale layout of the Fort Worth area based on the 30's-40's era. But I can't see them anymore and so am moving to G scale. But I wanted to have a Texas Special train on my layout.


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