# Moving Cars to Spot Another Behind Them



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

It's not uncommon to have more than one industry along a common spur. Inevitably this is at some point going to require that a car already spotted at the industry nearest the switch will have to be temporarily moved out of the way so another car can be spotted or picked up at the far industry, after which the moved car would be re-spotted (is that a word?). Question - does the railroad coordinate with the near industry ahead of time so the car can be ready to move when the train arrives? I can't imagine that the train would wait while any ramps connecting car to loading dock, etc.were moved and the car buttoned up to prepare it for movement.

Thanks.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I have seen similar questions asked on the trains dot com forums and the most common answers is: "The railroad would certainly like the industry to keep their word that the car is ready to be moved."

Some industries have an extra siding and a small tractor (flange wheels or rubber tires) that can move cars around and may have things ready for the new car to be delivered, but some do not have the room and would have to put a car on the main and that is an outright No-No and could get them all sorts of FRA sanctions and fines, so they have to wait for the RR to come do the switching. Most probably are ready, but I have read (and heard 1st hand) that sometimes things don't go as smoothly as everybody would like it to.

I listen to the RR radio frequencies on my scanner and have heard all sorts of "discussions" of what to do because the industry is not as ready as they should have been.

I have heard comments from the Conductor of a train sent to do some switching that goes along these lines: "The gate is locked and we can't find anyone to unlock it." or "The blue light is on and we cannot move the car until it is turned off."

The "blue light" (or blue flag) is an indication that someone is working "on", "under" or "in" the car and it "SHALL NOT be moved", until the person that turned on the light (or placed the flag) turns off the light (or removes the flag).

The replies from the local yard master are sometimes something like: "I called them and the only guard on duty says everybody has gone home for the day. You can sit and wait if you want or come back here to wait, we charge them for the hours whether they are ready or not."

Sometimes I hear the yard master say (knowing full well the rules!), "The plant manager says you can shut the light off yourself as nobody is working tonight." To which the Conductor will reply, "NO SIR! WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO ALTER THE BLUE LIGHT! YOU TELL THEM TO GET THAT GUY OUT OF BED AND BACK HERE TO TAKE CARE IF IT LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE IN THE FIRST PLACE!"

Railroaders take the rules very seriously! And they should... If is often said they were written in blood.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Basicallythe RR will notify the industry that a car needs to be spotted and there car needs to be moved weather emty or not. The train crew will check the car to see if it's ready to move if not more than likely they will leave and return. There are a lot of scenarios to this topic but when I worked for a RR that is pretty much what took place. Later RJD


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## noelw (Jan 2, 2008)

Question - does the railroad coordinate with the near industry ahead of time so the car can be ready to move when the train arrives? I can't imagine that the train would wait while any ramps connecting car to loading dock, etc.were moved and the car buttoned up to prepare it for movement. 
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Dwight.. They still call the user on industrial siding here out of Sacramento. Lot of industries only have access to the branch with a few siding for other industries. So ya.... have to re-spot some cars to get around for other spotting to do on the line.

Back in the 50ths the Bay area and Sacramento used a lot of Wharshouses for storage. 

In the Early 50 th's. I work for a Warehouse Co. Call Howard Terminal that was over 2 city blocks long at the end of the Richard industrial branch here in Sacramento, and there was three or four industries that had no siding of there own and had to be re-spotted to get to us. We were on the end of the industries branch line by the American River.

We got so busy in the summer time from storing & shipping Campbell soup, Proctor Gamble, Pillsbury, Scott paper and others stuff. They ended up putting in a third siding to story empty cars. Sometimes we would have to have a cars picked up or re-spots box cars twice in 24 hrs. The incoming frt. cars came in during the night and was unloaded then re- used the cars to ship back out if was clean enough. 

The S.P. had to work with the other industries on the branch to get to us, but most of the other industries only have a few cars a week where our average way around 10 to 20 cars in 24 hrs. 

During the soup season we had to load anything we could get a hold of even Ice reefer's and they were a son of a gun to load. Had to use roller due to the small door on them, but would get out 30 to 40 cars in 24 hrs. so they can store the soup in Nev. for tax reasons I guess.

Our first Reg. daily car movement was reg. charge, but calling in for a second movement with in the 24 hr's to move other industries cars was charged to us. In tho days guess our wharshouse made good money and didn't care of extra charges.. Just getter done....... lol

So back to moving cars we would wait for the switch Eng. to show up and then pull the car plates out of track one and track two.. So some cars could be taken out or spotted to other end of the whrs. for short distance to unload or load cars to save time working the cars. We had many 3 and 5 man crews so It didn't take long to pull the dock plates out when the Eng. crew showed up. 
Lot of times they had to put the industries car on a siding a few miles way to do our car movements. 

We didn't use track three much due to cross place would fall out some time going across themn. The lifts would rock the cars enough for the pins to fall out when heavy load on the lifts started cars to rock. 

I went down once between cars with my clamp lift with Scott paper load that just cleared under the top of the box car doors and had to crawling out over top the clamp lift mach. to get back up in the frt. car. Then call for lift help and chains to get my lift back up. 

It was a fun job tho and I paid off my brand new 1956 Chev. hard top in one yr. working there with all of the over time. 

Talking to some of the Switching crew around here, they just about do the same as they did yr's ago, but now it Union Pacific R.R. and they started to set the hand brakes. 
In the early days, most of the time on our siding they just set the air brakes or throw something under the wheels. Sometimes cars would start to move. The dock plates set in to the building most of the time would keep cars from going to far on nbr. one track only. Second and third tracks was a difference story. You would go for a few blocks ride.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you gents. I suspected as much but it's always nice to have suspicions confirmed with facts. hehehe


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 21 Aug 2012 04:27 PM 
It's not uncommon to have more than one industry along a common spur. Inevitably this is at some point going to require that a car already spotted at the industry nearest the switch will have to be temporarily moved out of the way so another car can be spotted or picked up at the far industry, after which the moved car would be re-spotted (is that a word?). Question - does the railroad coordinate with the near industry ahead of time so the car can be ready to move when the train arrives? I can't imagine that the train would wait while any ramps connecting car to loading dock, etc.were moved and the car buttoned up to prepare it for movement.

Thanks.

Dwight,
I'll add a late note to your question. Yes it is quite common for industries to share a common spur, and have to get switched after being spotted. If the first industry has any switching to do the switch crew will either switch the first or the second industry depending on how complicated each move is. Sometimes what looks like a simple switch can become quite complicated when you are trying to spot 2 or 3 different industries on the same lead. Most of the time the industry will call the RR and request a switch (or have a regular time that the get worked) when the RR crew shows up to the first industry and it is still blue flagged than nothing happens until the blue flags get dropped. This can be either a simple 5 min wait or a 2 hour or longer. On a yard job if it looks like it will be later the crew will come back instead of just sitting around and waiting. Blue flags can only be removed by the person or craft that placed them. I use to work a couple of jobs were we spotted two industries on the same lead. Normally the first industry got worked every day while the second industry got worked every 2-3 days. That isn't always the case. Now say if the industry is secured by a gate, and no blue flags are around, the RR crew can open the gate (they normally have a RR lock, and a industry lock together on the gate) and do any of the work that they need to do.

Something else to think about is that when a RR crew moves a car from the first industry it has to go back in the same spot. If the industry wants to have it moved it becomes what is known as an interplant switch. This is a charge that the RR gets paid for. I recall hearing that it was $500 for every car spotted, and $500 for every interplant switch for the RR that I worked for... Others may be more expensive or cheaper...

Craig


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## GaryGJ (Feb 9, 2012)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 21 Aug 2012 04:27 PM 
It's not uncommon to have more than one industry along a common spur. Inevitably this is at some point going to require that a car already spotted at the industry nearest the switch will have to be temporarily moved out of the way so another car can be spotted or picked up at the far industry, after which the moved car would be . Question - does the railroad coordinate with the near industry ahead of time so the car can be ready to move when the train arrives? I can't imagine that the train would wait while any ramps connecting car to loading dock, etc.were moved and the car buttoned up to prepare it for movement.

Thanks.

"_re-spotted (is that a word?)_"...Yes, that is the common RR term. Would be used in the context you describe plus, a re-spot may be required for a car previously spotted but was off the mark, say two feet. Also, re-spot term is used when a car needs to be moved from the current spot to another spot, within the industry confines. For instance, to another door - unloads at one door; reloads at another.

_"does the railroad coordinate with the near industry ahead of time"_...Yes, but not always. It is totally dependent on what type of industry(s) are involved, and sometimes the type of merchandise in the car can be a factor. and/or the status of a partially worked load. Night or day can make a difference, as well as work hours of industries, even the weather. Numerous industries have a bell/buzzer button located on the building, near the tracks, that is for use by a RR crewman. It alerts an employee inside that a RR crew needs to converse with him. In these cases, arrangements can made in person at that time, without prior notice by a yardmaster, dispatcher, or clerk. However, there are also many industries that must be contacted in advance - some are an absolute necessity, for various reasons, some demand it, some are required by rule or law .

So there you have it, Dwight...straight forward, understandable, reasonable, black and white, no gray area's, cut and dried! Uh huh! This is the problem with answers - they just create more questions! What a mess, eh? Well...it all made sense when I was doing it, but it does look like a tangled web when presented this way.
GaryGJ


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 21 Aug 2012 04:27 PM 
It's not uncommon to have more than one industry along a common spur. Inevitably this is at some point going to require that a car already spotted at the industry nearest the switch will have to be temporarily moved out of the way so another car can be spotted or picked up at the far industry, after which the moved car would be re-spotted (is that a word?). Question - does the railroad coordinate with the near industry ahead of time so the car can be ready to move when the train arrives? I can't imagine that the train would wait while any ramps connecting car to loading dock, etc.were moved and the car buttoned up to prepare it for movement.

Thanks.

Dwight,

When I did car ordering for a company I worked for this came up once in awhile. Our siding was served by both SP and WP. First, most way switching was done at night. When everybody went home the car, if not completely unloaded, would be closed up and sealed to be reopened the following morning so movement during the night was not a problem as long as the car was respotted. On a couple of occasions the brakeman would come into my office and ask to move the car. It only took a couple of minutes to get the forklift driver to remove the plate and close up the car. The engine would then move the car temporarily to another track, spot the new car and then return the original to its spot. Maybe 20 to 30 minutes. In the meantime the forklift would put away unloaded pallets into the warehouse until the car returned.

Of course a tied down load on a flat car woulld be another problem. I never had to contend with that but I imagine the train crew would have to drop the car someplace until the flat was unloaded or secured for the night and come back later. I know I wouldn't stop unloading and spend perhaps an hour re-strapping and nailing cleats so the car could be moved.


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## gra2472 (Mar 1, 2009)

I've been a conductor and engineer for over 15 years and yes, this is a common scenario. Team tracks will often have two or three customers on a single rail which makes pulling and spotting the cars in the back a real chore. You have to disrupt your other customers to switch their neighbors. Usually if the customer on the front of the rail is in the process of loading or unloading then I don't bother them until I get a release order from the office. The guy in back just has to wait. Respotting is a common practice with every customer. Some want certain cars in certain orders such as the refineries that will order cars in to be cleaned before being loaded. Crews will move the same car two or three times on the same track, respotting it at different racks depending on where the customer is in the process. I've had cars get half loads too where the refinery is loading them with waste products from different tanks or racks. Usually how this works is the customer orders new cars in, and releases cars to be shipped, but in the middle there are cars moving from the wash rack to the loading rack. The particular order will be written on a sheet of paper and placed in a mail box or simply pinned to the gate. Usually I take a look at the sequence order before I start switching, but in some cases if I already know the plan (because I've switched them a thousand times) it's just a matter of sorting out what's going and where to respot the old cars. 

I've had cars pulled and respotted to the same customer, and even had one customer get excited to see an empty centerbeam that I pulled from somebody else in my train and ask if they can have it to load for their customer. It can get complicated when there are two or three customers on a single track though. I had a newbie pull a canola oil car to be respotted but got mixed up and put a corn syrup car in it's place and took the half empty canola oil car to the interchange. Needless to say the phone starts ringing like mad when the customer figures out that his car is gone. 

Garrett 

Sacramento


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