# Ballast Problems



## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

I have tried a number of different forms of ballast and have and a recurring issue with each.

I try to keep the ballast a reasonable distance away from my switches, regardless, I still have problems. My most recent addition to the layout is a Train-Li switch which, while it is a very nicely built device, still suffers from sand and grit getting into the mechanism, just like the Aristocraft switches do.


The problem seems to stem from the heavy rains we get which causes small amounts of sand and other small debris to become air born and land on just about every horizontal surface. I have tried various types of paver base, chicken grit, top soil, and to a certain extent, mulch. Actually the pine bark nuggets seem to do the best, I have two switches out in the middle of the layout that seem to work more reliably than any of the others and they are surrounded by the pine bark (of course pine bark in the mechanism not only stops the operation but does a great job of derailing everything that passes thru).


I have recently acquired a large pile of crusher rock that has a variety of sizes in it starting at about 1/2" diameter, and am considering sifting it to get some of the different sizes for various parts of the layout. It appears that this stuff is going to have a similar problem to everything else I've used though.

Is there anyway to clean the ballast so that it isn't so dusty or something? Or spray something over it so that it looks correct but is held in place better?


My current thought is to just put the pine bark down around the switches and live with its other effects, but that isn't going to look particularly prototypical. Of course having open sections of bare wood and/or landscape fabric under the track doesn't look prototypical either.

One thing that has helped a small amount is to use silicone spray, but I worry that it is going to damage the plastic. That seems to allow the switches to work after I get the bulk of the grit out of the sliding parts. The silicone spray also seems to work well when dry so that is why I tried it.


Tom


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

As a note. I thought I read somewhere that the use of some form of concrete adhesive that was diluted and used in a spray bottle worked. Has anyone tried this and how well did it work? 

How hard is it to keep if from getting on the track and into mechanisms? Any suggestions there? 

Tom


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Portland mixed with fines has worked for me, I also just have the switches on the base crush-run, but do nto put the fines in or around them. Really have to look to notice but works well.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I used the garden hose and washed the ballast down around my switches. Once I got the powder out I had minimal problems with the 'splash' but would have to clean them once in a great while. I got a spray bottle and would just use water towash them out. 

Terry


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom, if you apply the ballast around the switch, wet it with a wetting solution and then apply tightbond II white glue(for outdoor use) diluted 50/50 with water it will glue the ballast in place around the switch and eliminate your problem.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I had a talk with Bob Toohey of the Fairplex layout during the SWGRRS show . He siad they wash thier ballast before they us it. That gets all the dirt and small particals out of the ballast. The most interesting result is the DIRT and DUST is removed from the ballast and it helps what ever bonding agent you use to adhere to the individual ballast stones. The problem you are experiencing may not be only from your ballast. 
It may come from any thing that is in the area of the switches. Such as Landscaping. Lots of guys have built covers for their switches for times when they are not running trains. 
So you might try and make a screen box, screening smaller than the smallest ballast stone, and wash some of your gravel and try one more time to ballast your track. 

PS I know some of you might be tired of hearing about the SWGGRS show but I keep quoting it in order to let you know what knowledge I accumulated at the get together. 

PPS I have not "washed" my ballast in the past and have had good results but I sure am going to to it in the furtre and hope to get great resluts.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

I use the above mentioned diluted white glue mix and it works great for me. I have many rain through the years but everything keeps in place nice and tidy. Still need to clean the switches after severe rains or when I did not use it for a long time. Wind blows (dry ) dust in the turnouts also.


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

Wetting solution -- is that water or something in addition?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Wetting solutions; ivory soap or alcohol. Not much added to water. a teaspoon to a gallon or so. Not so much as to make bubbles if soap.
It helps the water avoid beading up and instead soakes right in by breaking surface tension. 

John


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

I use reject sand mix it up like concrete and pour in on. Use a 1/2" x 1" piece of wood to tamp it between the ties and then just use a paint brush to smooth it out. It drys and sets up like concrete. Reject sand is 75% sand and 25% clay.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Why not just use coarser ballast at the switches? 

I use pretty coarse ballast and have no problems. 

Regards, Greg


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

Right now there are several inches of landscape fabric around one of the switches and it is still getting junk into it after almost every heavy rainstorm. If I could come up with a good way to wash all the dust off the ballast and then put it down so that it stayed that way, it might work better. Somehow I don't think that will happen. 

Tom


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

I am going to pull some of the track up and remove the ballast and put down a strip of landscape fabric ... then put in fresh and washed ballast. I have also collected most of the ingredients to cement it in place. As long as it doesn't do too good of a job holding everything in place it should work. 

I'll see how that works out. 

Tom


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

I put hardibacker board under all my switches. It keeps them level, and I have a lot less trouble with little stones getting in the way. I can also tell you that hardwood mulch for me was even worse. The small pieces blow everywhere and really hang up my switches.
Paul


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I"ve used the board as Paul does and that works fine. Ron Senek uses rolled roofing, which has gravel embeded in it. He has it under all his yards also. I plan to do that to my yard. I think I still have some of that in the barn!


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

I think for the short term I am going to go through and get most of the ballast out from around the track on the bench. That is where most of the switches are and I have noticed that things have moved around a bit there and very little is now level. That will take me most of the week to finish. 

I am going to look at the roofing material, that seems like an interesting idea. I am also going to try washing some of the ballast and try the glue idea - there is a lot of track that wanders through the layout that needs ballast on it to help hold the mulch away from it and keep the mulch from lodging between the ties. In some of the original sections of the layout that got pretty much got buried in ballast, the pine bark sweeps away very easily, elsewhere it almost has to be picked out. 

I have another issue that I am working on solving, how to secure the track to the wooden roadbed while still allowing it to move a bit. I need to resolve that before I try and put any loose ballast back on the track because the normal thermal movement gets everything out of sorts after just a few months. I have been using SS screws through the ties but now that the temperatures are hitting 3 digits, I see that several ties are deforming. I am thinking of using some 1" SS steel fender washers and put a screw between two ties, making the combination tight enough to hold it to the roadbed but loose enough for movement. 

I did notice that the mulch has gotten into the switches again but after I remove the chips, the switches start working correctly - with the ballast dust I need to play with them some more to get the loosened up. 

I have to think about the cover idea ... that may be a good long term solution if I can come up with a way to secure the covers to the track. There are two switches out in the layout that are pretty critical and take a lot of abuse ... the cover idea may solve their problem (I will just have to remember to remove the covers before I start running the trains). 

Tom


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

For the cover idea ... I wonder if I used 1x2 for the sides and then covered the top with screen if that would work. That would allow water to evaporate even if it didn't keep out all the dust and other stuff.


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## Chrisp (Jan 3, 2008)

Returning to your ballast question, I use crusher fines but reduce the amount around the switch points and frog. I also regularly use WD40 on the ground throws and around the points - this helps keep things moving freely and keeps dust and grit from moving around too much. It also looks oily and funky, just like the real thing!


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

So using WD40 isn't going to damage the plastic?


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## Chrisp (Jan 3, 2008)

No problems so far (3 years).


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Track fasteners. 
JJ uses a slick trick. 
Flat head screws between two ties and a section of stiff wire fastened to the screw and bent over a tie. Allows creeping but not lifting. The wire rusts to become invisible in the ballast 
Personally my track merely floats, even along a trestle, bridge, 90 degree curve and another 4' of bridge. All sections of track are screwed together or clamped and it grows and shrinks in place. No tie downs. The ballasted sections anchor the rest. 
My ballast is more likely to wander, but it's cheap hillside gravel, rain runoff sized, not as sharp edged as preferred broken rock 

John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The wire I use is the stuff they use to tie rebar together. You can get it from Home Depot where they have all the rebar in different lengths.

I use the plactic anchors and screws you see in the picture.

The acnors take a 1/4 inch hole 

I drill a hole in the concrete and insert the screw

I make a loop on the wrie just enought for the screw to fit thruough.

I screw the screw in the anchor then bend the wire over the tie 

I use long length of wire so that the loop is in the middle of the wire. 

Then I ben one wing of the wire over each tie on either side of the anchor. 





















This will hold the track frimly yet let some flexing for expantion


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## Tom Bray (Jan 20, 2009)

I may have to try that. I assume you used a SS screw so that it doesn't rot out too. 

Tom


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By Tom Bray on 28 Jun 2010 07:05 PM 
I may have to try that. I assume you used a SS screw so that it doesn't rot out too. 

Tom 



You know I really don't know. I buy them by the box. Never really paid attention to what they are made of


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## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Tom Bray on 20 Jun 2010 07:42 AM 
As a note. I thought I read somewhere that the use of some form of concrete adhesive that was diluted and used in a spray bottle worked. Has anyone tried this and how well did it work? 

How hard is it to keep if from getting on the track and into mechanisms? Any suggestions there? 

Tom 
I came across a "Hobby Tip of the Month" online in the Garden Railways site that suggests using Quikrete Concrete Bonding Adhesive to hold the ballast in place - indicates that "it will hold the ballast in place for many years without breaking down or cracking" Only thing is, there is no indication of the mixing ratio used. Pretty sure that undiluted is too thick - don't want it to look like poured epoxy, so does anyone have any history with this and/or ideas on what ratios will work? I have just completed sifting (using a 1/4" wire mesh screen/frame) some of the 1/4-minus I also use for our garden pathways and for the track base. I apply it to the track with a scoop made to clean out guttersm, then use a bristle brush made for cleaning tires/wheels and brush-and-tamp the fines to lock in the track. A light rinse with the hose on a low pressure, medium spray leaves it looking great, but after a few heavy rains it will need re-doing. I'd like to try the Quikcrete adhesive but need some ideas on mixing. I have used Titebond III in the past, but the Pacific NW winter rains were just too much for it ......any ideas??


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

The way I do it is I mix cement in with the ballast, I than spread the ballast on the track, leveling it 
and getting it to look as I want. I fill my bug sprayer up with water and spray the ballast until it is good 
and wet but not washing away. By morning it is in good shape and will hold up for around three years 
if some one dosen't step all over it, like my grandkids do. Had to keep them off the railroad for good. 
Oh yes I mix it half and half. 

Ken owner of K&K the road to nowhere


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## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

My ballast has been in place for quite a few years now - I just refresh it each year after the winter rains have their way with it (which in reality is not a lot of severe damage) - I just like to keep it looking as realistic as possible. That means having the ballast look like it is holding the track, not the track simply sitting on top of the ballast, which is the look after the rainy season. I had used the Titebond III but used a conventional spray bottle from Lowe's - the bug sprayer idea sounds a lot better. I've got an older one that I'll try this with - and if I don't get it all cleaned out when I am done, it'll be no big loss. The important thing here is good application, then ease of application. I have some more ballasting to complete today and then I'll give it a go. Think I'll wipe the rails themselves afterwards - don't want to detract from their weathered look. I use battery power, so no connectivity issues - just appearance. Ken, thanks for your imput.


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## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

Finished up the ballasting and applied the 50/50 mixture of water and Quikrete Concrete Bonding Adhesive with the sprayer. Goes along fairly quickly - chose to not coat the inner section between the rails but only the outside berm area. The thought here was to lessen the chance of any rain water from puddling and to allow it to soak in. The main thrust is to protect the shoulders/berm area from erosion. The weather was virtually ideal (calm, 75~80 and sunny) so it produced the best results with all of the material applied slowly and evenly. I later checked the first stretch and the solution had done it's job...highly resistant to crumbling except that if it were to be walked on it would give way. The irrigation sprayers reach some of the track areas and it will be interesting to see the results - that's another 36 hours away. The gallon gave me coverage for approx 250 ~ 275 track feet with some left over for touch-ups, etc. Plus the sprayer cleans up easily with warm/hot water.


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## desertrat53 (Jan 2, 2008)

Finished up the ballasting and applied the 50/50 mixture of water and Quikrete Concrete Bonding Adhesive with the sprayer. Goes along fairly quickly - chose to not coat the inner section between the rails but only the outside berm area. The thought here was to lessen the chance of any rain water from puddling and to allow it to soak in. The main thrust is to protect the shoulders/berm area from erosion. The weather was virtually ideal (calm, 75~80 and sunny) so it produced the best results with all of the material applied slowly and evenly. I later checked the first stretch and the solution had done it's job...highly resistant to crumbling except that if it were to be walked on it would give way. The irrigation sprayers reach some of the track areas and it will be interesting to see the results - that's another 36 hours away. The gallon gave me coverage for approx 250 ~ 275 track feet with some left over for touch-ups, etc. Plus the sprayer cleans up easily with warm/hot water.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Note on sifting ballast. 

If you place large ballast in a trench and then fill the top with smaller ballast, a long term problem arises as the large ballast will float to the top. 
Cure is to place weed block between the different sized ballast and it will not be able to mix!!!!


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