# A moral dilemma OT/NT



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

First of all, I never was, am not, and never will be a 'bunny hugger'.

That out of the way, I was also taught to only kill at need, cleanly, quickly, and painlessly as possible. PERIOD

The one neighbor, and some of the other neighborhood brats, however seem to enjoy not only killing, but maiming and torturing any stray animals that they catch. poking them with sticks, pelting them with rocks, throwing them, cutting off their tails, putting out eyes, setting them on fire, shooting at them with roman candles, tying strings of firecrackers to their tails, even shooting them with crossbows..... all of it.  

Yes, the humane society and the state police have already been called - repeatedly. They claim that they can't/won't DO anything without photographic evidence. Besides, these monsters will and vandalize the property of anyone who they think may have turned them in. (again, it seems you need to provide positive physical proof to even get the cops to bother to even come out and investigate.) -- Doing ANYthing, even just telling them to stop, puts our dogs, my garden, several hundreds of dollars worth of railroad scenery, and several rather expensive projects directly in harms way. I can't afford to set up video cameras all around the house, but it may come to that. We also may well end up pretty much prisoners in our own home.

Rescuing the animals without them finding out seems to be the only viable option that we can see. Even if we could technically be prosecuted for theft.... We've found homes (far away) for two kittens already.... There are several more (about 5) very skittish (tailless and scarred) cats to be relocated, then dogs - some actually belonging to these people, and a couple so afraid of people that they try to bite if they can't run and hide. 

Sooner or later we probably ARE going to be suspected. These people aren't stupid, just twisted. Meanwhile, anybody willing to open their home and heart?


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik, 

Putting your plan on this site will be YOUR undoing. If they suspect you of "placing" their animals in another part of the city or country, they may possibly check here. I would delete this post and contact us by e-mail. Get Shad to remove this post just for your own good. I believe in what you are doing for the animals is the noble thing to so. Just be more discreet.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Have you thought about punching them in the throat? it has always worked for me..................Seems to be a good deterant Bitchslapped at will........ Just a thought............


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO and im not joking, sometimes its best to man up when needed and you should be fine there after........


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik, send their information (name and address) and actions to PETA, it will give them something constructive to do...


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

The *rightful* owner of those kittens (the woman who owns the mother cat) asked us to spirit them away- there were originally 6, 4 were already found dead. The little monsters, however, claim that they are THEIRS, and are quite angry that they have disappeared. So far we are ethically and legally both to the good. The next step is the dilemma. Normally I'd side with the property rights people, but somehow I don't think anyone has the 'right' to abuse and torture.... So will continuing make us angels or common thieves?

As for deleting this thread, Shad or one of the mods can do what THEY think is best. 


Nick, I have a rather nice hand-and-a-half sword hanging over the bed. Don't think I haven't been tempted to at least go use the flat of it on some backsides. But to quote Gandhi, "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Violence usually isn't the answer.I don't need arrested. And we can't take everything with us every time we go to the store.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I did not want you to delete the post. I agree with what you are doing. But by putting it on a public website with your intentions, they can probably send the local fuzz after you when they find out who "spirted" them away. You really need to RE-READ my post. Sorry I even got involved.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary, not criticizing you, far from it... more trying to figure out how best to proceed. Not certain they'd know to look here. Not certain where we go from here. Kim is going to try the SPCA at the state level in the morning. Hopefully, at least maybe there is a feline rescue or something able and willing to help us.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik, 

E-mail sent. No problem.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik...and here I'd thought (or at least hoped) that you'd left the sociopaths back at the 'projects'. 

I find myself wondering here: now it is animals they are maiming and killing...but the type of personality that finds that 'fun' might eventually take that to the next level - tormenting, even attacking other people who they percieve as 'weak' or some such.


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## reeveha (Jan 2, 2008)

Since they are maiming wildlife your local wildlife and game might be interested.


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## ShadsTrains (Dec 27, 2007)

Hmm.. In most states animal torture is a felony. (Not to mention a precursor to more serious crime) I'm surprised that the local fuzz isn't doing anything. If the animals are truly maimed, photos of the hurt animals should be sufficient evidence. If the local police won't get involved, maybe the local media will? They seem to like those kind of stories...


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Try your local city council meeting or the mayor if you feel you are not getting any response from local law enforcement!!! Mayor's and city council's sometimes have a way of let's say persuading their local law enforcement!! I went that way once ended up getting two hand delivered apology letters, and later think I had a big or possibly a small part in the local chief resigning early!! Unfortunately got another one who is even more unresponsive to the people that pay his wages. Wouldn't even darken my business doorway in person when requested, would send the Captain in stead!! I learned along time ago go right to the top if a problem isn't being solved, and keep going to the top one step at a time! They like chain of command but that don't work most times!! I try that first then go straight to the top! Regal


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

What these little bastards need is to get beaten to within an inch of thier worthless lives, but you can't do that. Maybe get enough vocal, upset neighbors (and pro-bono lawyers) togther and pummel city hall into action. Petitions, city hall visits, planing meetings, news media attention, PETA etc. Those things always seem to work when the snot-nosed "do-gooders" want action. 

Decent people need to fight back (legally) on this kind of thing.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

What worries me even more is that animal torture is one of the indicators of child abuse. Animal torture at young age is also something to take very serious for another reason; any profiler can tell you that it is very common phenomenon for almost all serial killers... 
At least you can say there is something very wrong here, for both the animals and the kids. 

I just can't understand why the police does not investigate this some more. Perhaps it is an idea if you inform the Child Protective Service (anonymous if desired) about this behavior. I'm sure they take this serious. 

About getting the evidence: If you contact a local animalrights or -protection group they perhaps have the right resources already and are able to help to get the wanted evidence on picture. This way you don't have to invest in a camera etc yourself.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, it surprises me that the police are not involved. Here in Nashville a local contractor "place kicked" a home owner's Yorkshire terrier and I think got jail time for it


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Mik,


If any animal being harmed is yours (one of your pets or livestock), the law usually treats you as an "owner". Thus, you have standing to run over to the courthouse and file for a restraining order and then other relief. Plus you can call the police.


If a harmed animal belongs to a stranger, then, legally, the stranger has the right to co to court for the same reasons.

If a harmed animal is in some way the property of the evil neighbor, then you don't have the law on your side if you want to pursue self-help remedies. Sorry to say, it is frowned upon if one accuses another of acts which have not yet been commmitted.


If you can compile photographic evidence of injured animals who can be proven to be associated with your evil neighbor, then I would imagine that you could generate the right kind of interest, depending on where you live. Unless your neighbor is Michael Vick.


cheers

TL


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have a hard time reading this post. Crulleity to animals makes me sick. Watch yourself and your family. Amimals today People tomorrow. If they discover you are having fun with your RR they will distroy that. 

Don't give up. BUT BE CAREFULL.


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## takevin (Apr 25, 2010)

You have to video tape them, contact the mayor, local newspaper etc etc, you cant take a blind eye to this. Animals cant defend themselves. If it was me, a baseball bat to the knee cap on each of them and then some. I have neg - 0 tolerance for any animal abuse.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By takevin on 24 Aug 2010 04:43 PM 
You have to video tape them, contact the mayor, local newspaper etc etc, you cant take a blind eye to this. Animals cant defend themselves. If it was me, a baseball bat to the knee cap on each of them and then some. I have neg - 0 tolerance for any animal abuse. 

JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ I like this guy, Baseball bat to the knees? Sir have you ever tried a good old fashion punch to the throat? Makes them qwiver every single time HE HE HE


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

It is a shame that you are not a violent person. There are ways of stopping people like this from hurting animals especially when they are un able to see...... 
The most humaine way for you to handle this situation is to get together with your locals and start taping these people and keeping a record of everything. 
Do something 
please 
If I were near you I would be out there with you too help.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Investigator lady from the PSPCA is supposed to be coming out later this week. About 5 neighbors wish to speak to her. At least we aren't alone in this anymore. Thanks for all the kind thoughts.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

That's good news Mik. Many neighbors stepping forward certianly helps the case. You have to stay the course on this, even tho it's a tough thing to do.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Good luck Mik. It amazes me when the police have no interest, as my home page just popped up this "gem": 

http://portal.tds.net/news/read.php?rip_id=<[email protected]>&ps=1011&_LT=HOME_LARSDCCL3_UNEWS


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