# Ruby kitbashing idea I want to try - Double Fairlie



## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

G'day one and all,

One of the things I've enjoyed looking at are the various incarnations of Accucraft's Ruby locomotive around the place. There are some very impressive conversions, most commonly Mason Bogie types and tender engines, but also a Garratt, and I've heard of a Mallett. 


I know the Garratt (and possibly the Mallett) needed a new boiler.


I'm not keen on building a new boiler. However, I've been itching to try my hand at kitbashing, and I'm wondering if anyone has attempted to do a double-ended Fairlie locomotive with the Ruby. The Ruby looks like it was practically made for the job: this picture of a Fairlie locomotive on Wikipedia is basically what I'd like to make a freelance model of. The mason Bogie is basically a single Fairlie, though without the complication of having to articulate the driving wheels.


I've been scouring the 'net, trying to find as many pictures as possible of the Ruby Kit in disassembled form, and pictures of the chassis and the boiler. My idea is to buy two Ruby kits, use the two chassis as "bogies" or "trucks", then to make a second chassis to mount the two boilers on back-to-back.


Challenges I can forsee would include steam lines (which would have to be flexible cope with articulated wheelsets), and modifications to the two chassis to enable them to move independantly of the boiler on curves. I'd also have to decide how to manage the boilers - my idea of the simplest option is to use one boiler as "live" and the other as a "dummy" - this would however lead to fairly short steaming time (unless use the dummy as water storage with a hand or axle pump, and use both butane tanks or buy/build a bigger one). Other options I can see are that I could either connect the two boilers and have them both "live", or perhaps even to have both "live" and independant have one boiler running the locomotive whilst the other builds up steam (I somehow doubt that'll be viable).


So, to ask a few questions:

- Has anyone attempted a double-ended Fairlie?
- Can anyone point me to the construction manual for the Accucraft Ruby online?
- I've found Scot Lawrence's article to be most helpful, but I'm wondering where I can find more detail shots of the Ruby's Chassis, and how it connects to the boiler?

- Where should I look for flexible steam lines? 

- Has anyone fitted a water sight glass to a Ruby? I could go with an electric water level detector but I like sight glasses better. 


Any help would be very much appreciated! And DON'T STEAL MY IDEA!!! (Just kidding







- if you want a crack at a fairlie, please go right ahead!! Then tell me how you do it!!).


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Redbeards Mason Bogie was set up with an articulated running gear to chassis. You could look at his threads for inspiration. I also believe that there were others who did this when the Mason Bogie class was active? I think you are thinking of the Forney's which generally do not have articulated driving wheels? Good luck! It's time to start playing with our Rubies again anyway! 

Chas


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

Most of what you asked about can be found here, 
http://archive.mylargescale.com/articles/articles/SteamClass/ch4_01.asp 
But plan on scrolling through a few pages to find what you want 
Larry


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Many thanks Chas and Larry - I hadn't found any references to articulated drivers before! 

I've saved that link in my favourites, thanks Larry


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

One member of our work group is currently building a double Fairlie from scratch (1:16 on gauge 1 track). His approach is a double boiler with burners in between. This would be equivalent to using 2 Ruby boilers back to back with 1..2" space between them. May be I can convince him to join this forum and post some pictures. There are also some videos on youtube about a Mamod based Fairlie. 
Regards


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I second Henner's call on the double boiler set-up. Ruby boilers can keep up with 2 cylinders, but I doubt they can with 4. When Dave Hottman did his Garrett, he ended up making a new boiler. Review the "Informative Threads Index" above for some modifcations to the Ruby timing arrangement. Their maybe some options to consider since one unit runs forward and the other reverse.

Go for it. It's a great idea.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Double boiler appears to be the way to go then . . . 

Having looked at Redbeard's link, it seems to me that connecting the two boilers should actually be simpler than I thought - the outlet for the pressure gauge next to the throttle valve is a perfect candidate for the job, hook up a pipe from each outlet, put a pressure gauge in the middle, then use just one of the throttle valves to admit steam to all four cylinders - that should actually be quite doable. Though i'd have to keep an eye on two water levels, not just one. 

Bob - I have given thought to how running two units would be. I figure one way of matching the two units would be to set up one unit as "inside admission" and one as "outside admission" - so that the unit running in reverse should have the same running characteristics as the one running in forward (theoretically). Obviously there'd be a fair bit of tuning to do. I'm also thinking of adding weight over the drivers to help iron out any traction differences between the two units. 

Thanks for your help guys, I reckon this project might be a go-er . . . I'll keep you's updated . . .


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

I would leave the chassis as they are. I don't think you will have problems with slipping, as the loco will be pretty heavy. That way you will have equal performance in forward and reverse (one truck in inside, one in outside admission). Small steam engines have a rather soft torque/speed characteristic, so the two trucks will synchronize themselves easily. 
Regards


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Intresting project. Fairlies are an odd engine but fascinating at the same time. 

Chris Walas has built a few... not live steam... but they are intresting non the less. Check them out at http://4largescale.com/chris/index.htm Go to the "engines" section then fairlies. They have alot of whimsy! Hah! 

Good luck on the project. I would run two indepedent boilers that are attached in parallel (steam only, not burner). And unless I'm missing something, the drives will have to be articulated. Unless you have very broad curves! )


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## gearedsoft (Jun 20, 2009)

In Holland there are a few live steam double fairlies. It is not easy to run them. I also have pictures of it during build. But I have to look in my archive for them.


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## gearedsoft (Jun 20, 2009)

Found them. The pictures aren't during construction.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, that is one neat job, you are quite a craftsman!


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## rwjenkins (Jan 2, 2008)

One way to handle the water level in the two boilers (and it looks like this may be what we're seeing in gearedsoft's pictures) would be to have a steam pipe connecting the two boilers at the top, and a water pipe connecting the two boilers at the bottom (you'd need to install your own bushings for this). That would balance the water level between the two. If you add a Tee in the middle of these two pipes, you could also attach a single sight glass that gives you the water level in both boilers.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Gearedsoft - that's beautiful! I love the removable "boiler" in the cab, very clever. 

Richard - that's a good point. I'm in a group here (Rails In The Garden) who could probably help me with advice for installing a bottom pipe. It would mean only one water filler valve needed too. Would a water sight glass work running off a pipe like that?


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rwjenkins on 14 Sep 2010 03:56 PM 
One way to handle the water level in the two boilers (and it looks like this may be what we're seeing in gearedsoft's pictures) would be to have a steam pipe connecting the two boilers at the top, and a water pipe connecting the two boilers at the bottom (you'd need to install your own bushings for this). That would balance the water level between the two. If you add a Tee in the middle of these two pipes, you could also attach a single sight glass that gives you the water level in both boilers. 

That would be a good thing to do. You would not want to drain one boiler earlier then the other.

I would recommend two completely seprate burner systems. Running two burners from one valve and fuel tank is a no go. The gas will follow the path of least resistence to one burner. That burner will over heat while the other gets starved or not burn at all. Accucraft K's are very bad for this. It's difficult to keep both sides lit evenly.

On the valve timing, it depends on what the engine's job is. If it is for real operations, then leave them the same so the power is same in both directions. If the plan if for one direction, then make the switch. So many decisions to make.

This going to be cool.


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## gearedsoft (Jun 20, 2009)

This isn't my locomotive. I am just buying and assembling Aster/Accucraft locomotives.

I have enlarged the middle of the picture of the locomotive. It has two seperate burning systems. If you don't have this, you need more arms than you have to light this locomotive.
It has 1 regulator, 1 pressure gauge and 1 oiler.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I love stuff like that. Yes, it's complicated and a challenge to built, but it makes the engine run right. That's the way to go.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks for the advice guys. 

I was toying with the idea of converting it to run on alcohol - largely as I don't like the noise one gets from butane burners, and having two in such proximity might be rather irritating. That might be a bit beyond my expertise though, I don't have much of a clue about how to go about doing that, so I'll probably stick with butane for now. I was going to keep the two burners/butane tanks etc anyway, basically using what comes with the kit for simplicity's sake. 

Thanks for the extra pic gearedsoft - I've saved it for reference. 


I've ordered my rubies from Evilbay . . .

Anyone have any suggestions for what I could use for flexible steam pipes, and where to get them?


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

Silicone tubing works fine. You can buy it at the Local Hobby shop, intended for model airplane use. 

Steve


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

If you're interested in getting a larger gas tank, I ordered a stuart models standard-sized gas tank from ministeam.com

http://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/Burners.html

I mounted it on a short flat car to use with my forney. To this day, I have no idea how long it'll last.
I think the longest i've run it was about 2 hours or so.


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By Anthony Duarte on 16 Sep 2010 10:20 AM 
If you're interested in getting a larger gas tank, I ordered a stuart models standard-sized gas tank from ministeam.com

http://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/Burners.html

I mounted it on a short flat car to use with my forney. To this day, I have no idea how long it'll last.
I think the longest i've run it was about 2 hours or so. 

Then again, I don't know that it'd be possible to work their gas tanks into the double fairlie design...


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By nadnerbster on 16 Sep 2010 05:22 AM 
Thanks for the advice guys. 

I was toying with the idea of converting it to run on alcohol - largely as I don't like the noise one gets from butane burners, and having two in such proximity might be rather irritating. That might be a bit beyond my expertise though, I don't have much of a clue about how to go about doing that, so I'll probably stick with butane for now. I was going to keep the two burners/butane tanks etc anyway, basically using what comes with the kit for simplicity's sake. 

Thanks for the extra pic gearedsoft - I've saved it for reference. 


I've ordered my rubies from Evilbay . . .

Anyone have any suggestions for what I could use for flexible steam pipes, and where to get them? 





Somebody around here experimented with turning a stock Ruby boiler into a Jan Van Rymsdick (G1MRA) Type "C" alcohol. Anyone remember that? 

Flex steam pipe, options include a rubber tube with wire wrapped around it, rubber tube inside a continuos spring or rubber tube inside braded electrical sheilding


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Yeah it would be somewhat difficult to fit those tanks into a double fairlie. That said - I've got an accucraft Mogul, and I'm (hopefully) getting an EBT mikado, both of those have plenty of space in the tender . . . so thanks for the tip! You could practically fit a whole can of butane in them by the look of it . . .


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I'm the guy in Henner's group scratch building the Double Fairlie. This is my first MLS posting so I don't know how to put the photos up yet but I can give you my experience on the project so far and also on the Garratt I built using some Ruby parts.
Reverse the admission on the front truck. It will run smoother in forward with less strain on the valve gear and be acceptable in reverse.
If you have the tools and skill set, consider replacing the Ruby frame with a scratch built one. You can copy the holes from the ruby and custom build the boggie frame rails to the exact length and shape needed for looks and ballance. While you are at it, you can make a third frame for the cab and boilers. Articulation can be easily done with a kingpin setup on each boggie.
Depending on how prototypical you want to get, you should consider a drop frame design for the center frame in order to get the cab at the right height. There are engineering schetches online that show the frame structure of the original.
I scratch built my boilers but a Ruby could be converted also. I have a 5/32 thin wall (1/8 ID) tube connecting the boilersat the top and bottom. the Bottom tube will be used for the site glass and a feed water pump inlet. The top tube will be for the throttle regulator, whistle andn accessory. I have another outlet off the filler for the site glass and pressure gauge. 

I will post some photos as soon as Henner shows me how.


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## Ian Pooley (Jan 2, 2008)

I had a chance to look at the Fairlie in the National Railway Museum at York this summer. There sure wasn't much room for the poor fireman! 

You can justify two separate boilers from the prototype: there were Fairlie-type engines in Burma and Chile that used two independent boilers and two independent fireboxes. The relatively large Burmese 0-6-0 + 0-6-0 locomotives were built by Vulcan in 1901. They were inside frame, with outside cylinders and externally fitted Joy radial valve gear. They were 42 inch gauge with a wheel diameter of 3 ft 3 in, a bogie wheelbase of 7 ft 7 in, and a total wheelbase of 35 ft 7.5 in. My source is "The Fairlie Locomotive", Rowland Abbott, David and Charles Publishers Ltd, 1970, p. 55. 

The more compact engines were the Chilean locomotives. They were outside frame, a rarity for Fairlies, and they had modern Walschaerts valve gear. They were built for the Junin Railway by the Yorkshire Engine Company in 1905. They were 30 inch gauge, with a driving wheel diameter of 2 ft 6 in, a bogie wheel base of 6 ft, a distance between bogie pivots of 21 ft 10.5 in, and a total wheelbase of 29 ft 4.5 in. They had straight boilers, saddle tanks, and additional water tanks under the cab. There are drawings for them on page 97 of "The Nitratre Railways", Donald Binns, Trackside Publications. You could adapt Roundhouse wheels and cylinders to make something in 45mm gauge that would replicate them. You would have to make the frames yourself. 

Ian Pooley


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Posted By bille1906 on 02 Oct 2010 08:40 AM 
I'm the guy in Henner's group scratch building the Double Fairlie. This is my first MLS posting so I don't know how to put the photos up yet but I can give you my experience on the project so far and also on the Garratt I built using some Ruby parts.
Reverse the admission on the front truck. It will run smoother in forward with less strain on the valve gear and be acceptable in reverse.
If you have the tools and skill set, consider replacing the Ruby frame with a scratch built one. You can copy the holes from the ruby and custom build the boggie frame rails to the exact length and shape needed for looks and ballance. While you are at it, you can make a third frame for the cab and boilers. Articulation can be easily done with a kingpin setup on each boggie.
Depending on how prototypical you want to get, you should consider a drop frame design for the center frame in order to get the cab at the right height. There are engineering schetches online that show the frame structure of the original.
I scratch built my boilers but a Ruby could be converted also. I have a 5/32 thin wall (1/8 ID) tube connecting the boilersat the top and bottom. the Bottom tube will be used for the site glass and a feed water pump inlet. The top tube will be for the throttle regulator, whistle andn accessory. I have another outlet off the filler for the site glass and pressure gauge. 

I will post some photos as soon as Henner shows me how.

Thanks Bille1906,

I was beginning to lean towards just leaving the admissions "as is", but seeing as I'm not one who shunts a lot, and after your recommendation, I'll reverse it. Just need to work out a "front" end, and some way to subtly distinguish it from the "back" . . . 


My kits arrived on Wednesday - haven't had a chance to do more than ensure all parts are present as yet, I'm at the Great Southern Steamup at present and I won't be getting home until Monday evening, then I have work . . . I'll hopefully have some time to make a start next weekend. 


I'm definately going to have a crack at building a new frame for the bogies. One simple reason is that if this doesn't work out, I want to be able to build/sell a complete Ruby. And another reason is I'll have to do it for the boilers/cab anyway so I might as well give it a go. Problem here is I've only got a drill press - I'll either have to buy more tools or get some help (I have a couple of mates who can help out) or get it done at some machine shop or other. Mate of mine says he can laser cut metal, which will be a pretty handy way to do it if he can . . .

I'm not 100% sure I'll go for a drop floor - I need to toy with photoshop and draw up a few plans to see how it will look. It's a smallish engine to start with, so dropping the floor might make it a bit too short or the cab too tall . . . but there could be ways around that, I might only drop it a few millimetres or something.



Ian - thanks for that info! I'm not doing any specific prototype, this'll be a freelance project - much the same way as the Ruby itself is a freelance locomotive. But the info about the fairlies with two separate boilers is interesting, and I may well go with that route - I was thinking of making a fake boiler as part of the cab, but having two separate boilers makes placement of controls/pipework simpler.


I had a look at the underside of a single fairlie Tallesin (spelling?) yesterday. Very simple, just a silicon tube for the steam, and no reverser linkage - the servo for the reverser was mounted on the bogie itself. Very simple, but I'll probably not do that - I'm thinking a wire-in-tube setup for the reversers, with a servo in the cab.


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

Photoshopped image (from Accucraft promotional pic of their new ruby based loco) of what I hope the fairlie will look like


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## gsawdy (Mar 9, 2009)

Using silicon tubing to enable the articulation of the bogies was mentioned above. I'm curious about this. What size tubing should be used (both ID and wall thickness)? I'd guess the ID would be the same as brass tubes, but I don't know. Would this be a long-term solution or would it need replacement every year? I think in model airplanes they recommend changing lines every year. Also are Festo fittings able to handle the temp and pressure demands of live steam locos?

Here is a link to a relatively extensive listing of small Festo fittings: http://www.altecare.com/festo.htm and here: http://www.festo.com/net/SupportPor...PSI-US.pdf

I'm building a fuel filler and ordering the canister valve about half way down in the first link. I need to reach the $25 order min. so I thought I'd get some tubing/parts that could be useful later.

George


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## steveciambrone (Jan 2, 2008)

The tubing I have use sucessfully for 1/8 pipe, is 7/32 OD, 3/32 ID, wall thickness 1/16. You want the ID of the silicone tubing smaller than the OD of the tubing so it has some grip.  I have used it on steamlines and made hose clamps with safety wire, the silicone tubing will take a set after a week or so and will become more dificult to remove than first installed. I have not had a proble using it up to 40 psi or so. A Ruby is a jackrabbit at 40 psi so it is unlikely that the tubing would even see that kind of pressure. I have never had to use it with any reinforcement or with springs over the OD. On my Garrett I have a lot of tubing installed and it is several years old it shows no siign of degradation to date, I expect it will need replacement over time. A friend bought some black colored silicone tubing from MCMaster Carr which would look better than the normal hobby shop stock. The hobby shops normaly refer to the sizing as small, medium and large. Barbed fittings would be best but I have not seen any useful fittings on useful sizes. 

Thanks 
Steve


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## nadnerbster (Nov 19, 2009)

George - I suspect that model aircraft would be rather more rigorous about their tubing than live steam enthusiasts - if a tube fails on an aircraft, it crashes, but if it fails in a live steamer, you'll just get a minor steam leak and the train won't move. That said - your question was a good one, thanks for asking it - saved me the trouble, it was something I was going to ask! And thanks Steve.


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