# Starting from scratch, power options



## pjpickard (Feb 21, 2021)

Hi,

If I were to build a loco from scratch, what would you guys recc for motor, power, sound, the whole package?

Loco will be 1:32 and a fairly large engine, like a Pacific.

Thanks!


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Live steam!!!!
Did you find your 'custom builder' yet?
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

I have to ask the question, "Are you building this locomotive yourself, or are you setting up specifications for someone else to build it for you?"

Irregardless of who is doing the construction, YOU need to get far more detailed on what it is you want and how you want it to operate. The options are too varied to even begin to build from what you have asked. And the replies will all be based on the respondent's personal likes and dislikes, experiences with his/her railroad, and too many other factors to begin to list them. At best you will end up making a decision based on what is 'right' for other folks, not yourself. My suggestion is to spend time, lots of time, reading this forum and I also suggest Large Scale Central (www.largescalecentral.com), and determine what it is you want.

"If you don't know where you are going, you likely will not like where you end up."


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## pjpickard (Feb 21, 2021)

Finding out what others like and dislike are exactly why I asked this question! As to who is building it, that is not yet known. Probably me, but I WONT be the one who operates it, that person will be a total novice. As am I for that matter, I'm a large scale steam builder. What I want is something dead reliable and easy for the person to operate.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't go battery for the wrong reasons. It's not cheaper. It's not maintenance free. 

Be sure to weigh your options all ways, as many people who make the wrong decision (battery or track power) have difficulty changing later. (wasted $$)

Like the people before me, YOU need to list up what you want. Let me help:

If you can, list up the functions: (I will ask battery type questions, they would be different if you went track power).

Assuming 1:32, and a Pacific, which is not huge:

1. how long should it be able to run without recharging
2. what is the maximum gradient, and what percentage of the layout will be at grade as opposed to flat.
3. how many cars will the train be, and what era, i.e. pulling 60 and 80 foot cars is more work than 40 foot cars, and passenger trains are another consideration.
4. will it have a sound system? On a 1 to 10 quality/realism level what would you "grade" the sound system.
5. will you run smoke? How realistic do you want that? Will the smoke be on the entire time the loco is running, or is it just for a short demonstration, not really used.

With a battery operated system and a very good sound system and smoke, the Pacific quickly becomes a small loco, especially in 1:32.

Your response seems frustrated. This is like asking "what is the best car". Clearly you realize that is a silly question by itself. So, asking for a whole bunch of input from a bunch of people who have different requirements and different "best" solutions will not answer your question.

Adding the fact that the user is a novice adds more wrinkles, he may want all the bells and whistles (complexity) but be unwilling to use a complex system. Just like a novice pilot cannot fly a fighter jet, you need to consider your audience.

Greg


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## pjpickard (Feb 21, 2021)

Great response Greg! I don't mean to sound frustrated! In this case cheaper is not a concern, this is for an uber rich person, that will use this sporadically, maybe not for many months, but then will want it to go right away. They will spend the money but not foolishly.

I will keep the grades as flat as possible. We will run all types of cars, but initially shorter cars. Sound MAY not even be required, but it is not ruled out. Era is 1920's-1960 max. So mainly steam but some diesel. I'd say smoke is not required.

Yeah maybe a silly question...but as I mentioned I'm kinda out of my element. I decided on RC because the owner will want to show up(the location is not a primary residence) and run trains right away with friends, none who are "train savvy" Adding keeping track clean is an obstacle of having that happen immediately. 

I will probably build this loco, and maybe another as well and I was just looking for input on what works well for people. Oddly my personal experience is N scale and 3/4" and 1.5" scale live steam! So asking what motor and control is a good choice is my way of getting my feet wet with the part I don't know anything about. Building the engine and cars will not be a problem for me, all this other stuff is!

Maybe in retrospect I could have asked the question better hitting the points I mentioned above. I should also mention I'm doing this on a contract basis, so that is a factor.

Thanks for the time with your response it is appreciated!

Paul


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, uber rich?

Track power, stainless steel rail and stainless split jaw clamps. NO MAINTENANCE. Done right you might have a loose joiner every 2 years. I have 850 feet of track, can go months without even wiping off the rails. No oxidation, nothing.

Get DCC, you never have to be sure of charged batteries, worn batteries, limited run time, smoke, sound, all lighted cars.

No question at all what you should do.

Remember batteries have to be charged, people need to pay attention to their "health", they can catch on fire if the charger goes nuts, and catch fire in rare, but documented cases.

If this guy is uber rich, can you explain if another train guy comes by and it does not have puffing smoke, or a great sound system... all it will take is one person with a better layout and locomotive.

there's tons of options in throttles, control systems, automation, etc.

No question which way you should go if price is not an object. If you were asking this on a European site, where we don't have the anti-DCC mafia, it would not even be a controversy.

email me privately, let's talk on the phone (I don't sell or install anything). No compromises for someone that can afford the best, and no limits.

Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Get DCC


I have to agree with Greg, as I do occasionally. Battery/rc is OK but not for sporadic use, unless the location has a house-keeper who comes in and charges the batteries periodically.

And while DCC has quite a learning curve and expense for the installer (which is why I haven't bitten the bullet yet,) it really has some super characteristics. Check out the DCC conversions from Jiro Yeramian on Facebook:



__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10164424849365571


Log In or Sign Up to View


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Re-reading the third paragraph in post #6 (haven't figured out the quote system here) I would wonder about track power. That said, what about doing a hybrid system. I have a K-27 set up with an AirWire R/C system with a toggle switch which allows me to also operate on track power. No DCC, but analog track power. I consider it the best of both worlds.

Yes Greg, I had to add a bridge rectifier before the AirWire board. Not necessary with other R/C systems.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

DCC does not have to have a steep learning curve, that is really old news. I have had 5 year olds operate trains, switch locos, and throw turnouts, and blow the whistle, bell, and the doppler shift on a grade crossing. And 15 minutes earlier that 5 year old had never seen DCC or a throttle before.

Many old wives tales still abound, and even some DCC people revel in how difficult it is, just like many in our hobby that tell a newbie that it's an extremely expensive hobby... tell that to the guys who make $50 big haulers into a work of art with some bits of plastic and paint.

Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> I have had 5 year olds operate trains, switch locos, and throw turnouts, and blow the whistle


Greg, that 5-year-old had a nicely labelled throttle, I bet, and didn't have to wire up the loco for all those wonderful features. No argument that, when it is properly installed, it is easy to use. It's the installation that has the learning curve, especailly in a non-PnP loco.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry Pete, did miss that you were specific for the installer. It's easier to install than battery, fewer wires and less sensitivity to motors and voltages. 

Normally you use only one piece of electronics, the decoder, not an ESC and a receiver and a sound board.

Most decoders are purchased with any customization needed, i.e. no programming required, as opposed to battery/rc where you have to at least bind the receiver to the transmitter, and letting another throttle control the loco, oh well.

Greg


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## Rob491 (Jul 27, 2021)

pjpickard said:


> Great response Greg! I don't mean to sound frustrated! In this case cheaper is not a concern, this is for an uber rich person, that will use this sporadically, maybe not for many months, but then will want it to go right away. They will spend the money but not foolishly.
> 
> I will keep the grades as flat as possible. We will run all types of cars, but initially shorter cars. Sound MAY not even be required, but it is not ruled out. Era is 1920's-1960 max. So mainly steam but some diesel. I'd say smoke is not required.
> 
> ...


I prefer battery power 3 x 18650 li-ion batteries with a 12v motor. No need to keep cleaning the track. 
You can control this with an ESP32 developement board and L298N motor driver that will only cost you about £10. The ESP32 is bluetooth or wifi enabled so you can make your own app for an android phone or there are some free ones available. My loco can run for an hour before batteries need charging. See link


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> It's easier to install than battery, fewer wires and less sensitivity to motors and voltages.


One thing I will pass on to anyone new to DCC is the interface plug. I bought a Bluerail board, which is working in my Tram loco, and it came with a funny 8 pin (4x2) plug. I soldered the connections to it and realized later that it was an NMRA standard, and I could have bought a matching socket.
https://dccwiki.com/NMRA_DCC_Plug










*This is what I mean by a learning curve!*


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