# enclosure for electronics



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I recently added some electronics for protecting a crossing. Now I need a good way to make them waterproof. I had planned to put them inside an aristocraft station building, and that still might work, but there is surprisingly little room inside one of those things. I could hot glue them to the interior of the ceiling and that would work, but would not be conveniently accessible. I don't need a lot of access, but some woud be good. The components will fit easily in a 3 x 5 X 2 inch space.

Any suggestions for a waterproof box that would allow easy access and pass throughs for wires? I can find lots of plastic food storage boxes, but they are all a little too big to fit in the station. I might buy or build a new structure specifically to house this stuff--any suggestions in that department?


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Would any of the "project boxes" from Radio Shack work? Haven't been in one of those stores for a while, but at my last visit Radio Shack still carried them. 

Yours, 
David Meashey


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

There are lots of manufacturers of project boxes of all sizes, although they usually required a $25 minimum purchase when you only need a box thaat costs a few bucks. Thus, you end up at The Shack and spend $10-15 bucks for what you need. I use RTV sealant from the auto parts store to waterproof the lid because I bury mine, but you can probably just keep it screwed tight if you'll need to re-open it occasionally. 

JackM


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

You might try this outfit- may be more then you need, but...

I got a nice box here for a power supply that I take in and out for my reversing spur

http://www.casesbysource.com/produc...se-120nf-b


Jerry


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## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 13 Jan 2012 06:39 AM 
I recently added some electronics for protecting a crossing. Now I need a good way to make them waterproof. I had planned to put them inside an aristocraft station building, and that still might work, but there is surprisingly little room inside one of those things. I could hot glue them to the interior of the ceiling and that would work, but would not be conveniently accessible. I don't need a lot of access, but some woud be good. The components will fit easily in a 3 x 5 X 2 inch space. Any suggestions for a waterproof box that would allow easy access and pass throughs for wires? I can find lots of plastic food storage boxes, but they are all a little too big to fit in the station. I might buy or build a new structure specifically to house this stuff--any suggestions in that department? 
I have used these junction boxes from Lowe's & Home Depot for a number of projects - they have a heavy lid with a gasket and, if you seal whatever holes you make in them, are quite watertight even when underground. 










Junction box link


dave


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## ddevoto (Jan 22, 2008)

I used exactly what Dave suggests above. Here are a couple of photos of its use.











The box holds the Switch decoder fo the yard.










Here's the yard office covering the electrical box.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I also do what Dave does and have about 4 of these on the railroad. Be sure to get the rubber covers that cover the toggle switches, though they have limited life.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I picked up one of those Junction boxes on the way home--thanks al


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I use the same ones as Dave also... work pretty well, but still put drain holes in the bottom since you can still get condensation... 

Greg


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## ddevoto (Jan 22, 2008)

Yo Low, 
You can always bury the box enough to fit under your building, bury it completely, or hide it under a rock. Be sure to seal the hole where the wires come out of the box with silicone sealant.


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## ddevoto (Jan 22, 2008)

Drilling drain holes in bottom of the WATERPROOF Box WILL render it NON-WATERPROOF. I have four years of use with NO condensation. The box is WATERPROOF as long as the O-ring is properly installed and the exit for the wires is properly sealed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh... first those boxes are not waterproof, the lids will eventually warp a bit... but one trick is don't tighten the screws too much, just enough. That keeps it sealing longer. The large ones that are pictured have more trouble with the lid warping. 

Second, it's not an O ring, it's a cheap piece of black rubbery foam. (it's not a precision box). 

Dan, by some chance do you live in an area of normal humidity? 

I'll have some people from Georgia tell you about "waterproof", and the struggles to keep all moisture out as heat and cooling work their magic... turns out that you need airtight, not just waterproof. Heat in the day, cooling at night will eventually draw air inside. If you live in a humid climate, it WILL suck in more humid air. 

So, works for some folks.. not for others. I've used a lot of exactly that product from HD. 

My experience is small drainage holes in the bottom, with a little cotton or something to keep bugs from crawling in, and set on a concrete block. 

Just my experience. 

Greg


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 14 Jan 2012 09:59 PM 
Ahh... first those boxes are not waterproof, the lids will eventually warp a bit... but one trick is don't tighten the screws too much, just enough. That keeps it sealing longer. The large ones that are pictured have more trouble with the lid warping. 

Second, it's not an O ring, it's a cheap piece of black rubbery foam. (it's not a precision box). 

,....
Greg 


Greg...if it's a WATERPROOF exterior electrical box, it is waterproof in the context of down to two feet or so below ground level. We're not talking about a box that can take sustained heavy water pressure. That's required by the electrical code standards for buried junction box which normally are just part of an underground conduit system. Also...everyone of the waterproof boxes I've ever seen do have an O ring seal...not a gasket...and the lids are very thick...maybe 1/4". Further, the electrical code requires that all conduit that ties to underground junction boxes have all the ends of the conduit system sealed or penetrating INTO a building...so that water can't run down the conduit and pool in the buried junction boxes.


Now, there are water resistant exterior boxes that have gaskets between the cover and the box. That's what I've got for the exterior electrical supply to my GRR. Those are for above ground mounting...like switches and outlets and junction boxes placed on an exterior wall. Also, recently, the electrical code changed regarding these outdoor boxes too. You used to be able to legally use exterior outlet covers that had snap open/closed covers on the plug outlets. No more. The code now requires that the whole outlet face be inside a water resistance cover so that a plug can be plugged in and be completely inside the box.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The boxes shown are said to come from Home Depot. I have purchased the same box, and have 2 wireless base stations in them, as well have used another in the last few months. 

No O ring. Not waterproof in the practical sense. Water resistant in my opinion AND experience. Easy to warp the lid. The one I put on my friend's layout in Ranch Santa Fe was a replacement for a WATER FILLED one of the same manufacture. 

2 LGB switch controllers and one LGB reversing loop controller destroyed.

Water got in and no way to get out.

So, it can happen. I don't risk it anymore, very few things in life are truly water proof. 


I try to bulletproof everything. If you think it's truly waterproof, you are gambling. So I have a backup to allow draining of any moisture or condensation. I put it on a concrete block that is raised so water cannot get in from the bottom. I raise the contents 1 inch from the bottom on a platform of non-porus material.

I have no problems. Not saying you won't have problems assuming it is waterproof. Am saying my way is more bulletproof.


Greg


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## ddevoto (Jan 22, 2008)

Ahh... first those boxes are not waterproof, the lids will eventually warp a bit... but one trick is don't tighten the screws too much, just enough. That keeps it sealing longer. The large ones that are pictured have more trouble with the lid warping. 

Second, it's not an O ring, it's a cheap piece of black rubbery foam. (it's not a precision box). 

Dan, by some chance do you live in an area of normal humidity? 

I'll have some people from Georgia tell you about "waterproof", and the struggles to keep all moisture out as heat and cooling work their magic... turns out that you need airtight, not just waterproof. Heat in the day, cooling at night will eventually draw air inside. If you live in a humid climate, it WILL suck in more humid air. 

So, works for some folks.. not for others. I've used a lot of exactly that product from HD. 

My experience is small drainage holes in the bottom, with a little cotton or something to keep bugs from crawling in, and set on a concrete block. 


I absolutely disagree with your hypothesis Greg. Mike is correct in the construction and performance of these WATERPROOF boxes. To drill holes in a WATERPROOF box..., well, you might as well leave the decoder laying on the open ground. Read this: 
Type 6P	Enclosures constructed for either indoor or outdoor use to provide a degree of protection to personnel against access to hazardous parts; to provide a degree of protection of the equipment inside the enclosure against ingress of solid foreign objects (falling dirt); to provide a degree of protection with respect to harmful effects on the equipment due to the ingress of water (hose directed water and the entry of water during prolonged submersion at a limited depth); that provides an additional level of protection against corrosion and that will be undamaged by the external formation of ice on the enclosure. 

The engineering and code speak for themselves. I don't post on this forum just ring up "times posted" I provide my opinions based on real engineering and my experience in scale modeling and 1:1 construction.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By ddevoto on 15 Jan 2012 09:07 AM 
I absolutely disagree with your hypothesis Greg. Mike is correct in the construction and performance of these WATERPROOF boxes. To drill holes in a WATERPROOF box..., well, you might as well leave the decoder laying on the open ground. Read this: 
Type 6P	Enclosures constructed for either indoor or outdoor use to provide a degree of protection to personnel against access to hazardous parts; to provide a degree of protection of the equipment inside the enclosure against ingress of solid foreign objects (falling dirt); *to provide a degree of protection with respect to harmful effects on the equipment due to the ingress of water (hose directed water and the entry of water during prolonged submersion at a limited depth)*; that provides an additional level of protection against corrosion and that will be undamaged by the external formation of ice on the enclosure. 

The engineering and code speak for themselves. I don't post on this forum just ring up "times posted" I provide my opinions based on real engineering and my experience in scale modeling and 1:1 construction. 
Sort of funny Dan,

You state these boxes are waterproof - even capitalize the word, and then you quote from some description on 6P enclosures to emphasize your point, but the escription you quoted clearly says that these enclosures are NOT waterproof - they provide a "degree of protection", that's all - see bolded part above.


I know nothing about these particular enclosures and how they perform when exposed to the environment, it's just your comment and the passage you then quoted that struck me.


Knut


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## ddevoto (Jan 22, 2008)

Knut, your are correct. When used in the situations in which I have used them, IE in garden rr buildings and to just below grade, as I stated in my second post, they have proved to be WATERPROOf. Yes I may have overstated the PROOF part, but that is based on my use of them in the Garden rr realm and 1:1 construction.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Guys, the laws of physics enter here. If you think that this enclosure, especially when you add holes for wires, is hermetic, well, then there is no talking to you. 

If you admit it is not, then you deal with the air that is pulled in when cooling. This is why I asked about the humidity of the environment. There's also condensation on the outside that can be pulled in at the seal. 

Do what you will, I've given the logic and reasons and direct experience. 

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

How about this for a suggestion/ 

Use enclosure as described. 
No drain holes, just seal whatever entrance holes had to be added. 
Add one or two silica gel packs inside the enclosure to absorb any moisture forming inside. 
Use silicon spray all over the outside of the enclosure to provide an additional moisture seal.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can try it... like I said, for some people, the air is dry enough, that daytime heating will dry the inside from any condensation accumulated in the evening. 

gel packs can only absorb so much, if you don't have a problem, then you probably don't need them, if you have a situation like I did, they would get saturated pretty quickly. 

Watch the silicon spray, most of what we get here is just for lubrication, would not help the seal, and a lot of it has a pretty nasty solvent with it that can eat some plastics. 

Now, silicon grease on the seal would help, although I would wager that most people are going to have more problems with how they get wires into the enclosure. 

Greg


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I have reasoned that as long as the electronics are out of direct wetness they will be fine. I have had some electronic devices out for years, inside buildings without incident. The structure they are in must be able to breath, or moisture will form on the inside of the walls and roof. It's similar to insulating a house. Free air must be able to get to the space between the insulation and the outer shell. This is where I am not a fan of the foam insulation that is sprayed between studs, prior to the interior finishes going up. I have done some renovations on homes that were sprayed years ago. When I opened up walls where the foam was installed I found moisture and in some cases mold.


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

I have found that you cannot seal anything in any type box from condensation. Water will get in I 
don't care what you do. 

Ken owner of K&K the road to nowhere


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Love this topic. I have had all of the conditions mentioned and trying to get rid of the problems is a big chore. I'll agree with Ken there is no good way to totally get rid of the moisture. I live in a very wet and humid climate and condensation will accumulate in an encloseser no mater what you do. You can call something water proof but not moisture proof. I have used several ideas to help prevent failures of my switch machines due to the moisture. So far Thery have worked just got to convince the manufacture and vender to change there ways. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's interesting that the electronics in cars work in all sorts of conditions with--considering the number of cars of the road--relatively few failures. 

I drilled two holes in the side, for wire entry, and then installed two 3/4 inch elbows, with watertight fitting, for entry and exit of wires. For now the box is sitting in the open. Eventually it will be in a building.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you look at the design of the electronics that are NOT in the passenger compartment, you will see that most circuits are completely potted, and then they add "waterproof" connectors filled with silicon. I used to work for Nippondenso, now Denso, who makes every compoinent for heating, cooling, motors, switchs and cables in Toyotas... they do make things pretty bulletproof, but the biggest problem is water working into the connectors and causing corrosion. 

Very few things in the world are truly waterproof. 

Greg


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Talk about a thread where I think everyone should be wearing trash bags over their shoes....jees.

OK...if you really want waterproof...put your "electronics" in a waterproof box...seal all the wiring exits...test em...make sure they work right...then fill the box with mineral oil...and put the lid on. Done. Waterproof....really waterproof. Ain't no water EVER gonna impact your electronics as long as the bottom of the box is one piece. Period. 


If ya don't want to add the oil...then just Google "waterproof junction boxes". You'll see a bunch with real O ring seals and solid sides with knock out places to bring conduit runs in. Those are waterproof in the Navy way...meaning waterproof...meaning, outside water doesn't get in. I actually believe these boxes are waterproof until they are submerged to a depth where the water pressure physically deforms the box sufficiently to leak...and that's WAY down...not like on a GRR.


There are those that will worry about humidity condensing in your junction box. It will if it's open to the air...so seal the air out. All wire entrances need to be sealed...use SILASTIC...you know, 100% silicon caulk made by GE. But, it's open until you put the lid on it so it's still full of the humid air when it's clamped shut. Add a desiccant bag if you live in a really humid area...otherwise, just seal it and forget about it. 


Sometimes...simple stuff gets SO PISSY here it amazes me. KISS.


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## ddevoto (Jan 22, 2008)

Well said Mike!!


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I agree with Mike. As long as my boxes sits above ground level, the only attempt I make to seal them is that squishy foam packeked around the wires were they exit, more to keep the bugs out than the weather. But I do live in So Cal. As long as you put a structure over them, they are fine. I like to use the birdhouses from Michaels. This one runs my "leap frog" and the "stop" and "wait duration" for trains entering the service yard.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Now you see it...


Now you don't.


(Also in the first picture notice the birdhouse a little further into the scene that covers the box that includes my a/c-d/c conversion and voltage regulation for the MP3 player that is triggered by passing trains, and for the "stop" for the train that goes point-to-point between the station and the lake.)


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 16 Jan 2012 12:47 AM 
Talk about a thread where I think everyone should be wearing trash bags over their shoes....jees.

OK...if you really want waterproof...put your "electronics" in a waterproof box...seal all the wiring exits...test em...make sure they work right...then fill the box with mineral oil...and put the lid on. Done. Waterproof....really waterproof. Ain't no water EVER gonna impact your electronics as long as the bottom of the box is one piece. Period. 


If ya don't want to add the oil...then just Google "waterproof junction boxes". You'll see a bunch with real O ring seals and solid sides with knock out places to bring conduit runs in. Those are waterproof in the Navy way...meaning waterproof...meaning, outside water doesn't get in. I actually believe these boxes are waterproof until they are submerged to a depth where the water pressure physically deforms the box sufficiently to leak...and that's WAY down...not like on a GRR.


There are those that will worry about humidity condensing in your junction box. It will if it's open to the air...so seal the air out. All wire entrances need to be sealed...use SILASTIC...you know, 100% silicon caulk made by GE. But, it's open until you put the lid on it so it's still full of the humid air when it's clamped shut. Add a desiccant bag if you live in a really humid area...otherwise, just seal it and forget about it. 


Sometimes...simple stuff gets SO PISSY here it amazes me. KISS.



Mike, are you saying that you cover the electronics completely in a pool of mineral oil. [/b]


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

I haven't...but I know of MANY Navy programs that have. If you think Navy Seals sneak into places...think squeeze or slide. Lub helps...and protects.


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