# Mixing G scale rolling stock



## tcaron20 (Nov 19, 2010)

At first I thought that my entry into the G scale train hobby would not develop into a passion but I was wrong.

Now I'm concerned about how my rolling stock will look when mixed with different brands.

Case in point is that I bought two LGB Denver & Rio Grande Western cars along with two USA Trains and the USA Trains DRGWs are a lot shorter and taller than the LGB ones. Am I missing something here? Does the manufactor's stated scale really matter? How do Bachmann, Aristo-craft, etc. match up?

Thanks,

Tom C


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

You discovered the first "rule" of "G-scale"...There are no rules or rulers!

Manufacturers use different scales from each other. Complicating the matter is the manufacturers themselves build different scales within their own product line!

I assume you are talking about passenger cars? Both the LGB and USA "old tyme" coaches are not true to any scale, allowances have been taken. You pretty much have to stick to one brand/scale to have things "look right" (there are notable exceptions).

Example...Bachmann "Big Hauler" sets come with a 4-6-0, two passenger cars, and two figures. The figures are too big to fit in the loco and look positively silly standing on the end platform. The engine is of significantly larger scale (1:22) than the cars! The Bachmann passenger cars are a close match to the LGB 3080 passenger cars.

The USA cars you mention (Again assuming old passenger cars) are 1:24 scale but the newer stuff is 1:29.

The examples go on and on!

Welcome to the world of "G" scale!


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Oh, I know someone will point this out...a common mis-understanding and the first thing to learn...

"G" refers to the "Gauge" of the track, not the scale! Most manufacturers of off-the-shelf rolling stock use a scale of 1:20.3 through 1:32. all run on "G" gauge track. You can mix 'em but they don't always look "right".


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tcaron20 on 26 Nov 2010 08:07 AM 
At first I thought that my entry into the G scale train hobby would not develop into a passion but I was wrong.

Now I'm concerned about how my rolling stock will look when mixed with different brands.

Case in point is that I bought two LGB Denver & Rio Grande Western cars along with two USA Trains and the USA Trains DRGWs are a lot shorter and taller than the LGB ones. Am I missing something here? Does the manufactor's stated scale really matter? How do Bachmann, Aristo-craft, etc. match up?

Thanks,

Tom C


Tom,

Welcome to MLS and the confusing world of "large scale". We try to avoid saying "G scale" for the very reason you discovered - it isn't well defined. Worse - most manufacturers often don't label their boxes with the scale/gauge information. LGB is the really bad guy - their scales are all over the place.

In general, USA Trains and Aristocraft are 1:29th scale models of standard gauge trains, though both have some older models which are 1/24th. Bachmann is either 1:22.5 or the newer Spectrum cars are 1:20.3 and the box says so, but mostly models of narrow gauge prototypes. 

Does the stated scale really matter? Can't answer that - it's entirely a personal issue! Maybe it matters if the item's scale is stated but it isn't a scale model? Or maybe the manufacturer takes liberties and shortens the car anyway even if the rest is in scale. 
Dig around here and you'll find lots of threads about scale and the problems of trying to keep on track. Here's a couple:

why the different sizes of G scale trains? 

How did 1:24 scale get replaced by 1:20.3 scale ?


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## Dwayne (Jun 10, 2010)

Posted By Pterosaur on 26 Nov 2010 08:57 AM 
Oh, I know someone will point this out...a common mis-understanding and the first thing to learn...

 

"G" refers to the "Gauge" of the track, not the scale!  Most manufacturers of off-the-shelf rolling stock use a scale of 1:20.3 through 1:32.  all run on "G" gauge track.  You can mix 'em but they don't always look "right".




If "G" refers to track gauge (ie: 45mm)... then where does Gn15 go?... lol. 

I simply tell people I model in 1/20th scale. Most people understand that the model is one-twentieth in size to the real deal. And to avoid manufacturer discrepencies I scratchbuild/kitbash my equipment.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Scratch build like the manufacturers build, just make measurements with a rubber band and then stretch it when needed for material on hand. He He He.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Mixing and matching brands often takes more of an artist's eye than a stated scale or even a ruler. As was mentioned, sometimes you can't rely upon the manufacturers printed material. And you'll probably have to standardize on one brand of couplers, use hook n loops, or stock up on wire bread ties.

Several quick tips to make life easier:

1. Make a list of the overall dimensions on stuff you already have, fold it and stick it in your wallet where you can find it. When in doubt refer back to it. Add notes of other products that you have measured that will work or won't periodically

2. get a cheesy cheap 3 foot keychain tape rule... Then use it AS a keychain for the key to whatever vehicle you are likely to drive to a train show or hobby shop. Failing that, learn the credit card and dollar bill tricks. (as a measuring device, though cutting the card in half, then folding the bill in half and sticking it back in your pocket works too!)

3. If buying online ASK! ASK! ASK! (not what scale, what dimensions - if they are too lazy to measure it, they don't want to sell it very badly) 

4. Don't buy anything on a whim.
5. Don't buy just because it seems like a 'deal'.
6. Don't hesitate to sell off the stuff that doesn't work with your other stuff... or to remake it until it does.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

"though cutting the card in half, then folding the bill in half and sticking it back in your pocket works too!" 

i like that method for not buying something unwanted. 
how often do you have to apply for a new card?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I've never looked at the Largescale world as confusing. The great thing about it is,, that many different scales can run on G (45mm) track any where you go. You can pick any scale and go visit another railroad and run on it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As I see the questions you asked: 

1. How will the different brands look mixed together? 

Well, you have already noticed different brands can be different sizes. My advice would be to first understand that in real life, many boxcars (for example) were different in height and length, there was definitely some variation. The true test is really yourself, some people it does not bother, some people it does. We can probably get some pictures on this thread as examples. It's really your choice. Some people run very mixed trains, and some people like to run "unit trains" where there a lot of the same car. 

2. There some information on what the scales are from the manufacturer, and in most part, they are pretty accurate, i.e. the stated scale is pretty darn close to what they really are, but some manufactures take quite a few liberties, and LGB specifically rarely if ever states scale. LGB is probably the best example of lack of consistency of scale, I have to find the post somewhere, but their F7 unit is basically 3 different scales, if you consider length, width and height. 

If you are in 1:20.3, that scale has come a very long way to being very close to exact, it's become a true scale modelers scale. The other scales, like 1:24 and 1:22 have had less success in consistency. 

I'd be putting the various cars together to see how YOU like it, and for things you are thinking of purchasing, post a request for pictures from the members. 

My last piece of advice is, do what you like and satisfy yourself, it IS your railroad! 

Regards, Greg


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwayne on 26 Nov 2010 10:18 AM 

Posted By Pterosaur on 26 Nov 2010 08:57 AM 
Oh, I know someone will point this out...a common mis-understanding and the first thing to learn...



"G" refers to the "Gauge" of the track, not the scale! Most manufacturers of off-the-shelf rolling stock use a scale of 1:20.3 through 1:32. all run on "G" gauge track. You can mix 'em but they don't always look "right".




If "G" refers to track gauge (ie: 45mm)... then where does Gn15 go?... lol. 





Yep..thats because "G" does NOT refer to the gauge alone! it does in fact refer to a specific scale..and a gauge along with it..
"G scale" means "1/22.5 scale models of meter gauge prototypes running on 45mm track"..only..nothing else.

Gn15 means G scale, 1/22.5 scale, on 15" gauge track, which happens to work out to approximately HO scale standard gauge track.
(its actually about half a millimeter off) 

So Gn15 is 1/22.5 scale models running on "HO scale" track.. 


"G scale" means one scale and one gauge..1/22.5 scale, and meter gauge, on 45mm track..
just like HO scale, S scale, N scale, etc also refer to one scale and one gauge.(usually standard gauge, but not standard gauge in the case of G scale, which is meter gauge)

then you can have different gauges within the scale..which gives us HOn3O, Sn3, On2, etc..but the scale remains the same..

If you say "I model in HO scale" everyone knows that means "1/87 scale model of standard gauge prototypes"
If you say "I model in On3 scale" everyone knows that means "1/48 scale models of 3-foot gauge prototypes" 


This works nice and neatly in all scales EXCEPT "Large Scale"! 
where its a mess..
(the only "large scale scale" that has worked it out properly is Fn3 scale..well, and G scale too I suppose, when the term "G scale" is used correctly)

The problem of course is that the terms "G scale" and "G gauge" are often used in the incorrect sense, to generically mean "Large Scale"..
this is probably too well entrenched to change now..
but we should try to use "Large Scale" when describing "all trains that run on 45mm track", and not "G scale" or "G gauge"..
and most people do (use "Large Scale") once they understand what it all means!  



Scot


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry Scotty, that explanation has too many rivets to count.... Just shorten it to, "Many of us continue to play with trains in 'G'(eneric) scale." and you'll be on the right track. hehehehehe


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 27 Nov 2010 08:46 AM 
Sorry Scotty, that explanation has too many rivets to count.... Just shorten it to, "Many of us continue to play with trains in 'G'(eneric) scale." and you'll be on the right track. hehehehehe 




I never said anyone was required to actually COUNT the rivits! 
but the rivits do in fact exist..and people should be aware of them..
even if you then choose to ignore them..


Scot


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh, Tom C, you got it bad. 

The scale thing is great. A friend models a narrow gauge back woodsy short line, and I model standard gauge depression era, but I can take any of my equipment when I visit him and it fits right in.


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## tcaron20 (Nov 19, 2010)

Thanks everyone!

I got the answers that I expected. I've reconciled with the fact that some engines will look better with certain stock, i.e. LGB Stainz with LBG coaches, etc.

The good news is that I discovered the joy of large scale. My 45 year old Marklin HO trains are still in the attic. Now it's on to live steam and RC.

This is too much fun....

Tom C


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

G $cale covers all the Large scales.....


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Posted By Scottychaos on 27 Nov 2010 08:24 AM 
Posted By Dwayne on 26 Nov 2010 10:18 AM 

Posted By Pterosaur on 26 Nov 2010 08:57 AM 
Oh, I know someone will point this out...a common mis-understanding and the first thing to learn...



"G" refers to the "Gauge" of the track, not the scale! Most manufacturers of off-the-shelf rolling stock use a scale of 1:20.3 through 1:32. all run on "G" gauge track. You can mix 'em but they don't always look "right".




If "G" refers to track gauge (ie: 45mm)... then where does Gn15 go?... lol. 





Yep..thats because "G" does NOT refer to the gauge alone! it does in fact refer to a specific scale..and a gauge along with it..
"G scale" means "1/22.5 scale models of meter gauge prototypes running on 45mm track"..only..nothing else.

Gn15 means G scale, 1/22.5 scale, on 15" gauge track, which happens to work out to approximately HO scale standard gauge track.
(its actually about half a millimeter off) 

So Gn15 is 1/22.5 scale models running on "HO scale" track.. 


"G scale" means one scale and one gauge..1/22.5 scale, and meter gauge, on 45mm track..
just like HO scale, S scale, N scale, etc also refer to one scale and one gauge.(usually standard gauge, but not standard gauge in the case of G scale, which is meter gauge)

then you can have different gauges within the scale..which gives us HOn3O, Sn3, On2, etc..but the scale remains the same..

If you say "I model in HO scale" everyone knows that means "1/87 scale model of standard gauge prototypes"
If you say "I model in On3 scale" everyone knows that means "1/48 scale models of 3-foot gauge prototypes" 


This works nice and neatly in all scales EXCEPT "Large Scale"! 
where its a mess..
(the only "large scale scale" that has worked it out properly is Fn3 scale..well, and G scale too I suppose, when the term "G scale" is used correctly)

The problem of course is that the terms "G scale" and "G gauge" are often used in the incorrect sense, to generically mean "Large Scale"..
this is probably too well entrenched to change now..
but we should try to use "Large Scale" when describing "all trains that run on 45mm track", and not "G scale" or "G gauge"..
and most people do (use "Large Scale") once they understand what it all means!  



Scot 



That is how I understand it, and the term 'G' was first used by LGB for 'Garten' or Garden and 'Gross' or big.
'Gauge One' is the gauge 45mm.
So the 'G' thingy is really a misnomer in all cases except for when it is 1:22.5.
The term 'Large Scale' can also refer to other gauges besides 45mm.

Perfect system hey!

There is more I'm sure, so next...


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot left out the scale for Gauge # 1. 
It is 1:32 which is accurate for standard gauge equipment on 45 mm gauge track, and one the oldest scale/gauge combinations, having been invented by Maerklin over 100 years ago.


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

Tony, 

You got me on to all this yonks ago! 

Andrew


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## dmunseyjr (Feb 16, 2008)

Scot also left out halfinch scale for those of us that model 3.5 ft (42in) gauge in 1:24 scale on 45 mm gauge track. In halfinch scale, 16.5 mm (HO) gauge scales to 15.59". Should we round up to 16" or truncate to 15"? 

Perhaps Scot is acknowledging the group of folks that are labeling 1:24 scale a H scale?


I personally like the notion of dropping the letter labels entirely, and as several have done use scale proportions, like Dwayne (1:17n20) and Harold (1:55n3) have done - therefore I am modeling in both 1:24n42 and 1:64n42 - no ambiguity - right?


Wait just a minute! Now - what do i do with my LEGO trains? 


GBG!!! 


Don
Living in the UpperRightCorner of Louisiana USA


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

NPR


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

I think Scot was refering to the specific use of the term G and its correct scale rather the range of 45mm gauge scales. 
LGB's use of the term 'G' was more of a marketing concept applied to meter gauge so it can't be compared to the standard gauge based system like HO and O etc. 
Therefore Gm is redundant. 
The correct European term for 1:22.5 on 45mm is IIm. 

'G' has no place really but for the LBG marketing dept. they got it right. 
I think I got that right. 

Andrew


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I never paid much attention to guage 1/32 this and 1/24 that, and 1/20 but my philosophy is that if it will run or a 45mm guage track and I likes it looks good to me, i'll run em!! Hah LOL Rivet Rivet!! Regal 


AS ButtWheat says "Its yer railroad run it like you want" WGASA right Greg????????


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Best I could do.... 


http://www.the-ashpit.com/mik/gauge.html


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Confusicating isnt it. 

Scott has best described the large scale cunnundrum, best advice is do what looks best for you. Some of us that have "freelanced" our lines, created our layouts not based on an actual railroad companies, our layouts mix and match different brands regularly using the logic that many real RR bought rolling stock off other failed lines wich ment you could have a rather raggedy (and historically accurate) looking consist of cars that are all over the place scale wise depending on where they were bought from, this is how most of us justify mixing 1/22 and 1/24 stock or mixing 1/22 and the larger 1/20 stock but most people I have seen that have gone 1/20.3 are very particular and will only buy 1/20 stock, which is now very doable given the items now available, now very long ago one had 1/20 engines but almost no affordable 1/20 stock, particularly passenger cars.

Now your doing narrow gauge D&RGW I take it at 1/22.5? So mixing older Delton/now USA stock is doable, the scale difference isnt as jarring as between 1/24 and 1/20, so its really up to you, use what looks best. When you decide to follow a specific prototype line at a specific scale your choices suddenly become much more restrictive, so choosing stock is actually simpler. but could be more expensive. If you decide to go larger and go 1/20 then the best stratigy is to sell off the smaller gauger stuff and use the funds for seed money for the 1/20 stuff. in that mindset better to have a small but scale accurate rolling stock roster instead of a large roster thats all over the place.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Look at a real train, the cars vary in size quite a bit.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 27 Nov 2010 09:32 AM 







Oh, Tom C, you got it bad. 

The scale thing is great. A friend models a narrow gauge back woodsy short line, and I model standard gauge depression era, but I can take any of my equipment when I visit him and it fits right in. 


























Oh my, I had forgotten how long ago I drew that, I never kept a copy, thanks Tom I have now.


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

For the beginner after trying to understand all the inconsistancies, it seems as though it is all over the place and not everything is available or compatible scale wise. 
It gets better, different eras used different size cars so a Bachmann boxcar @1:22ish can now pass as an early era boxcar @1:20.3. 
There is an interesting thread around with pictures that demonstrate this. 
So too with some flatcars and a simple cab change on a locomotive can bring it into 'your' scale because somewhere at sometime there was probably something around like that. 
Also LGB are all over the place in scale and proportions but they were all designed to 'look good' together with similar roof heights and widths. 
An LGB saddle porter is more like 1:20 rather than their common scale of 1:22.5 for instance. 
I have a Bachmann (San cheng) double fairley at 1:19 so it is a 'bigger' scale than most in 'large scale', it is available in SM32 so it runs on '0' gauge track because the prototype is 2ft gauge so big is small and small is big just depends on how you look at it. 
So if it looks good with the rest of the gaggle, go with it, your eyes will eventually fuzz out and everything will be perfect! 
It is important to do your research on a model first before impules buying as there are plenty of combinations that are just way wrong. 

Andrew


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## Dansgscale (Jan 9, 2010)

I have read all the stuuf about the difference in scale bay various manufactures and how they vary in size for use on the same G scale (gauge (45mm) track. But one thing that I have not seen mentioned was why can't you use the different size cars from various manufacturers in the same train. If your modeling Narow Gauge like myself it is a bit difficult to be able to do this, but if your modeling modern era lines say in the 1930 - 50's then I see no reason why the difference in size of the cars would be of concern. Having watched over 50 episodes of Trains and Locomotives and watching a number of DVDs from my own collection, I have noticed that in many of the film segments from the 1930's to the 1950's there are quite a number of freight trains that had various size of cars. They varied not only in width, and length but also height, which was a result of changes in car design over the decades to meet the needs of the shippers. It does present a problem when doing passenger trains, as it does look pretty odd, but if you are modeling current era standard gauge you can use heavy height, Streamline and pullman cars together in the same train and if someone says anything, just tell them that it is an Excursion train or a NHRS convention train. 

Just my Observation: 

Dan S. 
Denver & Rio Grande Southern


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