# Aristo-Craft's new connie....



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

pix are up on the AR site, thanks to Tom and his streaming cold....

Go right on ahead, lool and comment before I say any more.

...and thanks, Tom. You done good there, pal.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

We already have a thread here, where we are allowed to actually speak our minds freely. 

Greg


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Sir - I'm not worried about anything that might be said, I'm interested to see how many post from THIS side of the pond, bearing in mind that one of the options promised was a US Army Transportation Corps paint-scheme - and there are five such locos like that running over here in UKin preservation. Unless one is a reader of the AR site, this might have escaped the wider audience that post here. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac which site are you talking about? can you post a link?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The Aristo site:

*http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulleti...hp?t=16658* 


get to the last page (about)

TAC, you are right, I did not remember those promised versions. Maybe someone will get the gumption to ask the question there, in 


The thread on MLS with some pictures and comments:

*http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx* 




Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic AC means Aristo cracft go the site and the pics are posted there. Thanks Tom nice pics. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I found the AC forum thread, its a nice model, darn nice, but until they are actually on the shelves still no cigar as far as I am concerned. Sorry if I sound jaded but its been what? 5+ years since this was first announced? Been nice if they had come out with this back when I still had a layout big enough to run it on, might have had a better justification to keep the bigger layout. Too late now.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

6 years, but who's counting? ha ha. 

Interestingly, apparently it is coming with one blind driver, not the center two. Weird. I would think with two blind drivers it could manage a 3 foot radius... it should handle 4 foot radius with all drivers flanged, because the Mikado will and it's the same gearboxes. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I think this may cause a problem with only one blind driver. Hope one could order one and replace the flanged one in the middle. Good old AC always tring to shap shoot the system. Later RJD


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I am just curious. What about the 1:1 Consolidations? Did they have any blind drivers? one blind driver? or two blind drivers on each side?

Ed


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

3rd driver is flanged for sure... 









driver #2 looks flanged here:









Fordyce & Princeton No. 101, 2-8-0. Warren, Arkansas - 











flanged here:









flanged:









santa fe, 3ed driver flanged for sure:









flanged:









driver #3 shows clearly:









flanged:









I found a site just for consolidations, I could not find any pictures with any blind drivers whatsoever.

Has anyone ever seen a picture of a prototype with blind drivers?

Regards, Greg


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Many 2-8-0 s had flangeless drivers ......................a simple Google search turns up many hits , and here is one , still steaming 
http://drgw.free.fr/WP&YR/Engin...eur_en.htm 


#40


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

They be narrow gauge locomotives Dennis.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

PRR 1187 is a standard gauge Consol with the two center drivers blind. 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/sh...id=1623989


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Speaking of drivers.. 

Can anybody say what the driver diameter is? That looks like a good starting point for a Southern Ry. 2-8-0, but the drivers would need to be 2" (scale 56-58") to be correct.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mark, are you saying that because it is written down somewhere or just by looking at that picture? 

If you are going by the picture only, I submit that the first driver looks IDENTICAL at the rim as the center two. I looked at a lot of pictures and the flanges do NOT show up on all pictures. 

Since the outer rim of the first driver looks identical to the center drivers, then either they are all blind (impossible) or the picture angle and exposure just does not show the flanges (what is happening). 

If you have documentation on this, I'd like to see it, but this picture proves nothing either way. 

I looked at over 100 pictures of consolidations. I discarded pictures where you could not see the flanges at all. This is one I looked at and discarded. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

I have visited this museum and locomotive an uncounted number of times and am a member of the museum. I have seen the blind drivers with my own eyes, but found photographic evidence for you just the same.

http://www.jefflubchanskycpa.com/PR...2DG908.jpg

Note in the above photo the loco is lit from underneath, and you can see the tire is wider than the rail head. 

This next one is kind of dark, but again, you can see the blind driver (one of them).

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/sh...id=2170830

In the case of the B&O E-27, I haven't seen any with blind drivers. Not saying it didn't happen, but there isn't any evidence. Maybe someone with more B&O knowledge will chime in. Never know, there might have been a branch line that was served by E-27 s with super tight curves that required blind drivers. I posted a bunch of pictures of the B&O E-27 on Aristo's thread.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

While I can't remember if it's a 2-8-0 or 0-8-0, the center drivers are blind and it's parked at the depot in Williams Az., Std ga. (or was when I was there a long while back aprox 10 years) 

Makes no sense to me to have only one blind driver and I doubt you'll ever find a prototype. 

John


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Arcade & Attica #18, built at the Patterson NY Cooke Works of the American Locomotive Co. in 1920 is equipped with a blind 3rd axle.

I will try to find a picture, but having worked on this engine for five years, and studied the railroad since I was five, I know 110% that this engine has a blind driver... and that it is currently under steam. Well, let me rephrase that, its operational... the season ends in October.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking thru the photos posted to the Wellsville Addison & Galeton Yahoo group they had inheritted a few B&O loco's when they started from the B&O (from the B&S) and they seem to show all drivers with flanges although a much smaller std. gauge prototype consoliddation. 
Chas


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason,

A&A 18

This picture seems to show the #2 driver as blind. 

In this pan shot, I think it shows there is no flange on #2. Note the shiny rim around the other 3 drivers conspicuously absent from the #2. 

Sweet pan shot, anyway!


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I donno... to me it still looks like the boiler sits too high off the frame. Too much daylight in between.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

nevermind


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

When I googled Blind Drivers I found out they are developing cars for blind drivers! 
Change to 'railroad' blind drivers and learned the Pennsy was known for their use... 
A note; the tread will appear wider than a flanged tread because the flange width is part of the blind one's tread. 

I suspect the easiest method would be a look through The Steam loco's Cyclopedia. 

Regarding the space under the boiler, was probably due to the firebox between the drivers and the smaller boiler diameter. Primarily used on branch lines (after heavier locos took the main) the smaller boiler kept the weight down, but were mounted high for good drafting. 

John


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 27 Oct 2010 08:37 AM 
While I can't remember if it's a 2-8-0 or 0-8-0, the center drivers are blind and it's parked at the depot in Williams Az., Std ga. (or was when I was there a long while back aprox 10 years) 

John 
I think the loco that was parked with the caboose was #18. Either #18 or #29, but I think it was #18. She's a 2-8-0. There also was #20, but I don't think that was the one displayed as it was always parked in the yards with many parts missing. #4960 was always in service back then and was too big to be the one on display. 

As for the display loco (presumably #18) I didn't think any of the drivers were blind, but I definitely remember the gaping space between the boiler and frame. Gotta find a good photo of either #18 or #29 to see if the drivers are blind or not.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Note, I am not saying that NO connie ever had a blind driver.. I just went through a number of pictures that did not show blind drivers, or could not tell from the pictures. 

Noticing that driver #2 is blind, not #3, I think it's your sworn duty Mark to inform Aristo of this gross error! 

hahahahaha, just joking of course. 

Anyway, sure seems the majority as delivered were not blind. This loco might have been modified for the excursion railroad, or who knows. 

Again, pretty much a non-issue for most people with the upcoming model that have 8' diameter or over curves. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

LOL! I already did....

BTW, the 1187 really does have 2 blind drivers per side... you can trust me, I'm not making it up!! 

Yeah, what I mostly see is all flanged drivers on consolidations. I don't think the blind drivers are going to be a problem, and really, time will tell. I'm not worried about it. Truth be told, if blind drivers are going to get this engine around tighter (less than 8' diameter) curves, then I am all for it. Bring in as many new people as possible!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Lewis has told me on more that one occasion that he felt he lost sales with the long wheelbase locos, specifically the Mikado and the Mallet because they would not run on tighter curves. 

Yep, I'm all for it too, more people in the hobby the better, although I always encourage people to use 10' diameter and above if at all possible. It never fails that someone makes a layout with tight curves and then buys a Dash-9 !! 

Greg


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

If it was a dedicated road engine it would likely had all-flanged wheels, if it was a dedicated switcher it would be more likely to have blind drivers, much more if the carrier was an urban road with lots of industiral spurs. The blind drivers allowed for the engines to shove cars onto often very tight curves, think about the NYC waterfront or I think about the "rathole" SP subdivision in downtown LA where street running, tight curves and short spurs were the norm. A common short Connie with blind center drivers would be perfect for this type of use. The more typical road type Connies would be a larger engines with longer wheelbases. I noted on an earlier thread that the Connie this was based on looked very much like other 0-8-0 switchers and could easily be modified into such, so I'm not surprised this would have blind flanges, makes the most sense given its prototype and possible uses. Lets see who's the first to make this new model R1 compliant. LOL


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I personally feel that the blind drivers are not going to affect the operation of this loco. I'm just wondering why AC decided to do just one set of driver when in the beginning the loco was to have two drivers blind like the C-16. Later RJD


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## lathroum (Jan 2, 2008)

Its supposed to come with the flanged drivers to switch out anyway...

I run indoor... and the best I could fit without having a giant circle to run on was 6.5' diam curves...

So I for one am waiting for this engine to come... right now the only "big" steam I have is a pacific...

runs great on my outer loop of 6.5' curves... but it lumbers in the turns on my 5' diam inner loop...

I was smart enough not to get a Dash-9... though I like the look... gp40 and gp38 are my biggest diesels...

but when I first started I could get a u25b and a rs3 through 4' diam curves all day long... I can do it with a GP7/9 also...
(with a few sinmple mods each)

but the larger curves look better and run better too...

Philip


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic,

The B&O did turn some of the E-27s into 0-8-0 switchers. Davy Cormack sent me a ton of stuff on this engine years ago, but I have lost most of that information. 

Here's one from the B&O steam site.









Looks like the tender from an E-27. Add an extra sand dome and short pilot.


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