# A quick REVIEW video of USA's docksider...



## Guest (Sep 14, 2008)

Welp had a chance to unpack my new engine today and do this little review of the USA docksider, very well packed but no wooden box with this one. after running for a little while this is what i think. engine very heavy, runs smooth should pull a decent train at 13 lbs of weight, thats heavier than most other locos. sound is a little cheesy but will do for factory installed sound. smoke puffs with driver rotation but doesn't smoke that well in my opionion, but i'l have Ray take care of that in short order... full metal rods no plastic, does have plenty of underbody detail for a 400.00 engine, not as much as there other diecast but more than enough for what it is. all of the engine appears to be diecast except for a few lower details and the gear housing cover. switchs are under the coal load in the rear of the engine, also for you kadee guys, this is not a very kadee freindly engine, can be done but will take a little work. and as with ALL USA trains steamers, this is a great little engine and fully works out of the box. is wired properly, smoke unit works and stays working, drivers are quartered properly, and weighs a ton. once again USA trains has set the bar when it comes to 1/29th steamers, they work out of the box all the time.... and look great. im glad to be one of the 1st to have this loco. so if your lookin for a good little engine for your RR try this affordable little diecaster for you layout.. 
Nick..


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## rrkrzy (Jan 4, 2008)

Nick, 

Great performing engine. Also very good video. By chance where did you purchase this for $400?


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2008)

Posted By rrkrzy on 09/14/2008 9:53 AM
Nick, 
Great performing engine. Also very good video. By chance where did you purchase this for $400? 
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Mike, 
400.00 Was the pre order price, but a freind of mine ordered one on friday from RDL hobbies and got it for 429.00 
Nick...


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

No valve gear or stephendon valve rods? even the cheapie Piko has _some_ representation of valve gear


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, great little loco..runs like a singer sewing machine.. 
I may have to buy one just to DCS it.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## Guest (Sep 14, 2008)

Chuck, 
Fantastic little loco, it has a flywheel as well. should be a fairly easy conversion to DCS.. run and performs like a champ... 
Nick...


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like a decent little engine for the price. 

I can't access the videos from where I am at. Did USA put any more detail in the main rod or is it just flat metal? $400 for a steam engine with sound is not too bad. Given it is die cast, you don't have to worry too much about the USA smoke unit setting your locomotive on fire!!


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

I spent quite a while talking with the guys at Charles Ro on Friday and they apparently put an awful lot of work into this engine. My understanding is that they refused to move forward on the production until every little niggling problem was rectified. I do wish that they included better smoke units with the engines, though.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry but the connecting rods look like a old Lionel locomotive, its just a stamped metal plate, no detail at all, and no valve rods? I'm supposed to pay $400 for this? Sorry I just dont get it, for that kind of money I expect a detailed drivetrain, not something akin to tinplate. If B'mann can do it with a $150 Annie...../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/plain.gif 

Anyone test operation on minimum R1 radius yet?


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

It's not all that different from this: 
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/rdg1251s.jpg 
Which has no visible valve gear


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic, 

I think there may have been some collaboration between Lionel and USA Trains: 

Lionel's 'new' dockside switcher for O scale or O-27: 




































USA trains: 

















Seeing as how Charles RO is a big Lionel dealer, it is not that surprising if they collaborated on this one, at least on the line drawings. Even the axle spacing is similar. There are too many similarities for a really obscure prototype. 

From the POV of selling locomotives, I wonder why USA didn't make this loco out of plastic, keep the sound out, and sell a ton at the $200 range. The Lionel one sells at $100, and that includes sound, too.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 09/15/2008 9:13 AM 
It's not all that different from this: 
Which has no visible valve gear 


Hmmm, Maybe I'm missing something in the models pics. But I can clearly see here in the pics above, pushrods from the the Stephenson valve gear right above the slide rods going into the slide valve above the cylinder, or the rocker arm just to the rear of the crosshead that connects the Stevenson valve gear in between the frames to the slaide valves? I can clearly see it, and it wouldnt have cost more that 20 cents per unit to add a brass rod and a plastic rocker to represent it .... basic[/i] level of authenticity when it comes to detail. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif" border=0>


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

It is kind of cool that two dockside switchers have come out at almost the same time. Need smaller steam in 1/29 for a while.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Now granted maybe its a small thing, but it just seams to me maybe RO got so caught up in the diecast body they forgot about the chassis, I mean look at the video, the connecting rods are stamped plate metal, no raised edges to show the I-beam construction of the conecting rods, its just plain sheet metal like an old Lionel tinplate. I just expect that on a $400 engine that I get a certain _basic_ level of authenticity when it comes to detail. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blush.gif 

(note) this was supposed to be part of the above post but something is preventing it from showing, at least on my end.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Mark like I said, maybe I'm just not seeing it on the video, maybe it is indeed there, and I'm just not seeing it. 

Maybe I just need another cup of Caffine today  

(edit) OK on full screen mode I can see the rod meant to represent to Stephenson valve rods, but I still dont see the rocker arm. 

Anyway, has anyone done a minimum diameter test to see how tight a curve this little beasty will pull a car through?


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic, 

I revised my post, so disregard the prior comment. 

Your impression of this switcher's detail above the running board and below the running board is about the same as mine. However, the one I saw was preproduction and had plastic side rods. I just figured they hadn't finished working on it yet. That was in the fall of 2006, at the York TCA. When I can get to a place where I can view the video, I guess I'll find out if they changed much. 

Mark


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

OK Mark, but I still think I need another cup of caffine /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2008)

Based on the picture Mike posted the loco seems to be pritty close in detail to what it was to represent,drive rods are metal and look great,outside rod has full releif on it while insde rod is flat so maybe Victor got his models wrong when he was talking about the valve rods or what ever they are, i couldnt get a good shot of the under side because of its color but it has full riviting detail, brake shoes leaf springs and some kind of cylinders under there. its a lot more detailed than the flat sided piko model with no detail at all under neth except for the molded on vavle gear that the picture of the real seems to prove piko got wrong. but theres could be a different version. what i think Victor fails to point out is he likes the piko version better cause he can kit bash it into something that will fit his RR and he likes to kitbash. the USA version is a lot more detailed and scale looking, diecast so it will pull a lot more than the piko version has sound and smoke,led lighting and diecast drivers not plastic like the piko version, theres also has plastic side rods form the look of the pictures, not good if your planning on doing any kind of serios running or pulling.and the driver appear to be alot smaller on the piko version but if you have a small layout with tight curves the piko model appears to be a good starting point after all it is a starter loco. as for me i'l take the diecasts weight and puliing capabilltys any day and the quality of USA 1/29th steamers over anyone elses, just because theyve proven to be reliable out of the box , look great and run and pull 2nd to none, and also if you included the extra stuff the USA model has that piko doesnt they would probably be very close in price so i will pay 400.00 any day for a diecast loco considering my last one cost 3500.00 but as Victor pointed out i dont really know what the min, dia curve the USA docksider can take? cant seem to find that info anywhere. so at the end of the day bolth locos are a welcome addition to large scale and they bolth have there places. 
Nick.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, 
I think Vic was looking for someone with one of the locos to try and see how tight a curve the engine will negotiate. In other words, do you have a 4' diameter curve? Does the loco run on it or does it climb up and derail? 
Maybe an outdoor photo of the loco would give sufficient light to see the details that have been added since the one I saw. Looking forward to viewing your videos later on. Edit- somehow the embedded video showed up and I watched it! 

Now this is just my opinion, but that sound system is about as good as the bachmann one in the big hauler. Was there a whistle or bell? Other than changing the headlight from the blue LED, I'd say it looks like it will be a good engine for a lot of folks. 

Mark


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Specificly, will it do R1 with cars in tow, and with what couplers will it do so. This engine has a fair amount of front overhang and alot of rear overhang. If it has a body mounted, non-pivoting knuckle coupler, while the drivetrain might squeek thru the curve, the coupler swing could pull a car right off the tracks going round an R1 curve. Hook and loops might be more forgiving but I dont know how many people still use them. Somewhere early on I read it would require 5 foot diameter, if so to me its seams nuts to make a small locomotive that will be un-usable to a big chunk of the very market that would be interested in it, namely small, space restricted layout owners like myself. The USA looks like it has pivoting couplers, that would make alot of sense to me.


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## Guest (Sep 15, 2008)

Mark, Victor, 
i will be running on a layout on wed, or thurs i will video tape to see what it can pull and how sharp it can get round. to be honest by looking at it im not sure it can due super tight turns with a car in tow, but we will set up some 4 and 5ft dia track and try it, anlso smoke and sound not the best in this loco as i stated at the beginning of the the post but its something, we WILL be working on that one pritty quick. does sound about like the bachmann locos. dont know why manufactures that try to out there own sound systems in cant do a better job... aleast when they install after market sounds system, they sound a little better but need work as well.. 
more on this loco soon but check my videos tonight i got my mallets and mikado back from Ray, and he made work great took video last wed of them runnin  
Nick..


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 09/15/2008 7:11 AM
Sounds like a decent little engine for the price. 
I can't access the videos from where I am at. Did USA put any more detail in the main rod or is it just flat metal? $400 for a steam engine with sound is not too bad. Given it is die cast, you don't have to worry too much about the USA smoke unit setting your locomotive on fire!! 





















Holy crap! 

Raymond


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ray, 

Tell me about it!! The story there was I was 'letting my trains run' while I was raking leaves. From where I was (about 100 feet away), I could still see the loco and its two cars flying around my rr. I was using the smoke units, and had topped them off before the run. Not really paying attention, the units must have run dry. Then, I noticed that the smoke was pouring out the top of the cab, along with a 2" flame!! E-stopped and quickly estinguished that fire. About 2 years later, I got around to ordering a replacement cab. Upon replacing the cab, I snipped the smoke unit wires! I was using MTH smoke fluid since that seems to smoke the best for me. I'm not the first to have a fire like this. A guy named Clay (who used to be very active on here) had one on his indoor overhead railroad in a GP 7. You would have thought I would have learned from his experience, but I guess sometimes, we need to learn for ourselves. 

Maybe this is why USA is die casting their steamers. Nick, either way, don't let your un modificed USA smoke units run dry.


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh boy, where do I start? Want to replace the sound with a 2k2 and install an NCE808 decoder.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the pics , now I can see that the firebox has rivits , there are springs and brake shoes etc , looks better to me now that I can see more detail . 
Still wanting to see pictures of one out in the real world on a layout pulling cars .


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just did several USAT (SD's and switchers) with same decoder and sound unit. I'd probably find a way to connect to the switch board plugs, and remove the "main board".... does it have a chuff switch? 

Also, measure the full slip current, you might do fine with a D408.... (yes I know NCE does not warrant anything in a USAT loco except D808)... 

Regards, Greg


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, 
Is there a third circuit board inside the chassis by the front axle? Kind of looks like there is in the photos? I'm kind of curious how they are triggering the chuff.


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Paul Burch on 09/18/2008 8:48 AM
Jim, 
Is there a third circuit board inside the chassis by the front axle? Kind of looks like there is in the photos? I'm kind of curious how they are triggering the chuff.



Yes, there is a 3rd board for the chuff. BTW, the chuff connection has 3 wires, any idea as to why? I was thinking it would be a simple 2 wire reed switch.


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09/17/2008 5:25 PM
Just did several USAT (SD's and switchers) with same decoder and sound unit. I'd probably find a way to connect to the switch board plugs, and remove the "main board".... does it have a chuff switch? 
Also, measure the full slip current, you might do fine with a D408.... (yes I know NCE does not warrant anything in a USAT loco except D808)... 
Regards, Greg



Greg, I'm using the existing plus and simply inserting the Decoder in the track pickup wires. I'm using the 808 because I had one from a previous battery conversion. The engine draws about a 1/2 amp, (1 amp with smoke) freewheeling on rollers.


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## Guest (Sep 21, 2008)

here you go victor your welcome..... runs smooth to me


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

BIG Thanks Nick, all my Q's are now answered.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So Jim, I guess there is enough room for the D808 w/o removinb any of the boards. That's good to hear. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jim Agnew (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 09/22/2008 6:56 PM
So Jim, I guess there is enough room for the D808 w/o removinb any of the boards. That's good to hear. 
Regards, Greg



No, there is not enough room for a D808 and a 2k2 without removing a board. The board I removed was the top one, which I thought was the sound board. Turns out it also somehow powers the lights. This didn't bother me because I connected the lights to the D808. I also cut a trace on the rear light PCB so I could control the cab light. I'll take pictures after I install the KD's. I talked to Phoenix yesterday about connecting the chuff sensor to the 2k2 and Phoenix had just received their Docksider, Jim said he should have an answer tomorrow.


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## Wendell Hanks (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick- 
Thanks for the video. 
Am I accurate the USA docksider is almost,. plus or minus, the same size as my B'mann 1:20 ( I think the fudged a little) 0-4-0 tank loco? 

Thanks, 
Wendell


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