# Need expert opinions



## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

After 50 years of running HO I'm moving outside and starting G scale. I have been accumulating track this Fall ready to start my lay out in the spring. It's too cold up here in Minnesota to do much outside until then. I want to use battery power but haven't decided which RC system to use. I have some rolling stock but no Loco yet. Here's my question--- What loco (prefer diesel) and RC system would it be best to invest in? Is there a particular loco that is set up to easily convert from track power? I think I can handle a track power conversion. Is the Airwire5000 a good option? My wife is asking what I need for Christmas so the timing is perfect! Thanks in advance for your input.

Ewald


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

USA Trains-Air Wire is plug and play.

http://www.reindeerpass.com/cvp-products-air-wire.aspx


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I use both the Airwire system and the Crest "Train Engineer" system. I like them both pretty much equally well. The range of the Train Engineer is better than the Airwire, but neither are problematic on a typical-sized garden railroad. The Airwire offers more functionality for 3rd-party sound systems, and more customizable motor control if you're into that level of sophistication. Both systems work well with Phoenix sound systems, which have the reputation as being the best stand-alone sound system on the market. 

Mike mentions that the Airwire system offers plug-in compatibility for USA Trains locomotives. That's a definite plus for those boards. I don't think they've got plug-in boards for all of the locos USA has made, but they've got them for a fair number. Having said that, the Crest Train Engineer is "plug-and-play" for Aristo-Craft's locomotives, and have the advantage of having built-in sound on each receiver. (The quality of which I will leave for your ears to determine. I'm something of a purist, so I much prefer the high-end sound systems.) Aristo is out of production, but their locos are all over the used market, and they will likely return to market at some point down the road.

One advantage the Airwire system has is that there are now a few different compatible receiver options available, so you aren't married to using Airwire's motor control boards. This allows you to use any DCC decoder on the market (provided it can handle the current of your loco), so your range of motor and sound control options is pretty broad. QSI's latest "Titan" decoders have very good diesel sounds, and TCS and Soundtraxx have just introduced new large scale decoders as well.

Later,

K


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, I thought the Airwire G3 had a 1.5 amp current limit (This is from the latest on-line manual for the G3) and a DCC sound decoder is the only thing shown added in the manual. This means to me that a decoder like the large scale Zmo decoders with 6 amp capability can not be used at this time. My G3 manual did state a current limiting resistor needed to be used in some cases.
So, does Airwire make another unit that can drive a high current largescale DCC decoder?


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## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

That's 1.5A continuous, IIRC.

Tam Valley make a compatible decoder 3A cont, 5.4A peak.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The spec for one of the Zimo decoders (MX695) is 6 amp cont, 10 amp peak.
Another is 4 amp cont (MX696), 10 amp peak.
SO, be aware of specs when combining DCC decoders with battery DCC units and even if you have a 1 amp motor, a 6 amp decoder could draw more than an amp when charging internal components!!!!


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I have three USA GP's with Air Wire drop ins. Very easy to install. Also have a old Aristo Craft 
train engineer in a trailing car.

Don


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## Peter Eaton (Mar 11, 2015)

First raise your garden railroad up from ground level. I also went from 50 years of Ho to G scale outdoors in northern Vermont. I use Aristo's Revolution controls with battery power. Use the base unit to run multiple engine hook ups, receiver and battery in trailing car, also use receivers located in the engine with a battery in a trailing car for power. Very happy with this system. Peter


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> Kevin, I thought the Airwire G3 had a 1.5 amp current limit (This is from the latest on-line manual for the G3) and a DCC sound decoder is the only thing shown added in the manual. This means to me that a decoder like the large scale Zmo decoders with 6 amp capability can not be used at this time. My G3 manual did state a current limiting resistor needed to be used in some cases.
> So, does Airwire make another unit that can drive a high current largescale DCC decoder?


The G3 rating is 120 watts, will run most anything.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Treeman, you missed what I was trying to indicate that the DCC output is limited, not the airwire drive to the motor.

however, 120 watt at 10 amps is 12 volts for the decoder, but less for the motor/s. 

At 18 volts 6.67 amps, 24 volts would be 5 amps. This should be great for most large scale engines, and remember that sound, smoke and lights are part of the 120 watt spec which leaves even less for the motor/s.


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

Treeman said:


> USA Trains-Air Wire is plug and play.
> 
> http://www.reindeerpass.com/cvp-products-air-wire.aspx


Hi Mike, Yesterday I found a LGB F7 A/B unit on Craig's List. Brand new in box. I want to convert it to battery power. I looked on the Reindeer Pass site at Airwire products and I think you have everything I'll need. Do I put the G3 in this unit? What Battery would you recommend?
Ewald


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

Peter Eaton said:


> First raise your garden railroad up from ground level. I also went from 50 years of Ho to G scale outdoors in northern Vermont. I use Aristo's Revolution controls with battery power. Use the base unit to run multiple engine hook ups, receiver and battery in trailing car, also use receivers located in the engine with a battery in a trailing car for power. Very happy with this system. Peter


 Hi Pete, So many guys our age are recommending the raised railroad and I sure can understand the reasoning. My plan is to have about 50 ft. of track running along a 3 ft. high retaining wall. At least that area will have better track access. 
I plan on using the Airwire products to control things. Perhaps in the next couple weeks I'll order what I need to put in my newly acquired LGB F7 A/B unit.

Ewald


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

East Broad Top said:


> I use both the Airwire system and the Crest "Train Engineer" system. I like them both pretty much equally well. The range of the Train Engineer is better than the Airwire, but neither are problematic on a typical-sized garden railroad. The Airwire offers more functionality for 3rd-party sound systems, and more customizable motor control if you're into that level of sophistication. Both systems work well with Phoenix sound systems, which have the reputation as being the best stand-alone sound system on the market.
> 
> Mike mentions that the Airwire system offers plug-in compatibility for USA Trains locomotives. That's a definite plus for those boards. I don't think they've got plug-in boards for all of the locos USA has made, but they've got them for a fair number. Having said that, the Crest Train Engineer is "plug-and-play" for Aristo-Craft's locomotives, and have the advantage of having built-in sound on each receiver. (The quality of which I will leave for your ears to determine. I'm something of a purist, so I much prefer the high-end sound systems.) Aristo is out of production, but their locos are all over the used market, and they will likely return to market at some point down the road.
> 
> ...


 After lots of research I feel more comfortable with the Airwire system. I probably don't need that level of sophistication at this time but maybe in the future. I won't need to get a sound card because my LGB F7 supposedly has a sound system of it's own. I haven't tried it yet and I'm sure it's not as good as a phoenix but it will have to do for now. 

Ewald


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## cephius (Jan 10, 2008)

Ewald,
Where in Minnesota are you located? The Minnesota Garden Railroad Society is very active. Here is our website http://mgrs.strikingly.com/

Pick the locomotive you like. All have had receivers installed by somebody. One of the advantages of large scale is the amount of room in the equipment for adding circuit boards.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ewald

I think you will be surprised at the sound in the LGB F7. The sound card is in the B unit. It is an excellent digital sound unit. In order to get the sound to work, you will have to feed power into the B unit from the A. There are two cables that are needed to connect the two units. One is for sound and the other power. There are no track power pickups on the B.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's always good to do the correct calculation, as Dan has done, if I remember right, the Airwire was advertised as a 10 amp decoder at one time, but it's only 10 amps at 12 volts, too low for most motors. 

Greg


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

cephius said:


> Ewald,
> Where in Minnesota are you located? The Minnesota Garden Railroad Society is very active. Here is our website http://mgrs.strikingly.com/
> 
> Pick the locomotive you like. All have had receivers installed by somebody. One of the advantages of large scale is the amount of room in the equipment for adding circuit boards.


I'm in Chisago County about 50 miles north of Mlps. I checked the web site and the photos from the members. Thanks for the link.
Ewald


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

chuck n said:


> Ewald
> 
> I think you will be surprised at the sound in the LGB F7. The sound card is in the B unit. It is an excellent digital sound unit. In order to get the sound to work, you will have to feed power into the B unit from the A. There are two cables that are needed to connect the two units. One is for sound and the other power. There are no track power pickups on the B.
> 
> Chuck


I put an 8 ft. Circle around the Christmas tree today. Plan to test the F7 soon.
Ewald


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Going back to the original question and answers, it looks as if a decision has been made with getting the LGB engine and moving to using Air Wire. I have several LGB and Bachmann engines (since I like the steam side) and find that the LGB can be a little more challenging to convert. When adding the features of lights, sound and any automated features of the existing track powered locomotive, it sometimes can be difficult to find the original schematics....sometimes takes a lot of testing with a 9 volt battery to see what does and doesn't work...Ha. Since your winters are long, I'm sure you can set up a test track somewhere and work the bugs out. I use lithium batteries and the voltage rating seems to be an issue on how much continuous running are you going to do....mine are the 18 volt packs from Reindeer Pass and they will allow me to run for 4-6 hours on a moderate temperature day. I know you can go bigger. To eliminate errors and overheating (possible fire) with charging, I keep all my packs the same size and only charge them outside....like to be cautious. Good luck and you should have fun in lets say May or June? Ed (Arizona)


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

ewaldbee said:


> Hi Mike, Yesterday I found a LGB F7 A/B unit on Craig's List. Brand new in box. I want to convert it to battery power. I looked on the Reindeer Pass site at Airwire products and I think you have everything I'll need. Do I put the G3 in this unit? What Battery would you recommend?
> Ewald


The G3 is the generic decoder to use, a CR-1600 would be adequate, go to a CR-1605 for more run time or 1700 series for more speed.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> The spec for one of the Zimo decoders (MX695) is 6 amp cont, 10 amp peak.
> Another is 4 amp cont (MX696), 10 amp peak.
> SO, be aware of specs when combining DCC decoders with battery DCC units and even if you have a 1 amp motor, a 6 amp decoder could draw more than an amp when charging internal components!!!!


The DCC output of an AirWire G3 or Drop-in is not intended to drive a second driving decoder, it is intended to drive a sound decoder and does that very well. Will give complete control of the Phoenix P8 including volume adjustment.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB F7A has plenty of room for a battery and airwire unit.
The B unit uses magnets on the ties to activate sound for the bell (left rail) and whistle (right rail) if the volume control is not facing the A unit. The speed sensor is built onto the axle in the dummy motor block. If you do not reverse the polarity like DC does, then you will not get the 2 toots forward and 3 reverse on start up. There are super caps in the B sound unit so the sound will play for 10-20 seconds when power is removed.


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

chuck n said:


> Ewald
> 
> I think you will be surprised at the sound in the LGB F7. The sound card is in the B unit. It is an excellent digital sound unit. In order to get the sound to work, you will have to feed power into the B unit from the A. There are two cables that are needed to connect the two units. One is for sound and the other power. There are no track power pickups on the B.
> 
> Chuck


I was testing my new F7 on track power. The loco runs fine but when I connect the cables to the B unit I get weird noise and a red light on and off on my power pack. I'm using a Train Power Pack 5400 that I had on hand. I believe it's a 2 amp unit. Is that my problem---not enough amps?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, under powered power supply. I figure on 1 amp per motor, sound and lights adds to the power draw.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

21v dc max, 1.8 amps max, but the controlling thing is 22 VA... that means the maximum possible current at high speeds is about 1 amp... and the 1.8 amps means that it could only possibly occur at 22/1.8 = 12.2 volts.

It's also PWM, which can mess up some sound systems. 

Sorry, but that supply is best utilized as landfill.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

It is the PWM that is the problem, the LGB F7A/B combo will work on a 1 amp DC pack but limited in how many cars it can pull.


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

I'm looking at a MRC 9900 powerpack on ebay. Looks like that unit will have the amps I need for now.
Ewald


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## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Getting in the weeds a little but if you want to use another decoder with Airwire the convtr board is a possibility. 2.5A output. Works great for smaller locos.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan, I'm a little surprised, the A & B unit and sound will run at 1 amp total? Clearly that cannot include smoke.

It's hard to believe, I could believe it with no sound. I trust you completely but I would sure like to see it on an amp meter.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, the LGB F7 does not have smoke, neither does the Genisis but there is a socket for the LGB 5 volt unit in the Genisis only.
Come to think of it, I do not remember any LGB diesel made with smoke, just the steam engines.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I just went out and made some measurements. The amps shown below are an average. Depending on curves and grade it went up and down by 0.1-0.2 amps per loop.

LGB see through diesel A (no sound) 0.8amps

LGB see through AB (with sound) 1.3 amps

LGB see through AB with sound, box car and 4 lighted LGB streamliners 2.0 amps

Same train with a second LGB A 3.0 amps.

The bottom line is that a power supply rated for 1 amp is very minimal.

Chuck

Note added, It appears that the LGB streamliners pull a lot less current than similar USAT cars. The power LGB needed to light 4 LGB cars is about 0.6 amps or about 0.15 amps per car. Four USAt cars would have required about 2.0 amps or 0.5 amps per car.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Chuck, I may be misunderstanding, does the B unit have motors?

Was your sound measurement running with sound actually making sound? Could you measure the current with the horn blowing?

Just curious...

thanks Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

The "B" in all LGB "AB" pairs is a dummy. No motors, but the sound unit is in the "B". There are two sets of wires that connect the two units. One with two wires is for power, and the second with four wires is for sound. At least that is what I think. There are no power pickups in the B. Speakers are in both units with a switch for both or one.

I was getting sound out of both units.

Tomorrow I'll try to see the amp pulse for the whistle.

Chuck

Sorry, I tend to forget that some newbies might not have much LGB ;-).


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh, so 1.8 amps for basically a single loco, and sound, that is reasonable. I was having a hard time with 2 powered locos AND a sound system, since I'm pretty darn sure that LGB does not use advanced technology like class D audio amplifiers.

Thanks again Chuck, things make sense to me now.

Regards, Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

The clear LGB F7 AB pair with flashing lights was made in 2001, at least that is the engine number and the number molded into the motor block. I got them in the in the late 2000s. Nicholas Smith was having a closeout. I think that I got the pair for under $400. They pull my Christmas train, because of the flashing red and green lights in the cab and other lights flashing down the inside of the bodies. They are earlier than LGB's entry into DCC (MTS). I had to bring out the second A because the one A was having trouble on the grade and curve at the uphill end of the layout.

In my opinion, the pair has an excellent digital sound unit. As the engine works on the grade the sound changes and then picks up on the down grade.

I was surprised that the "A" by it's self just pulled 0.8 amps. Most of my engines pull that with just one motor.

Chuck

Chuck


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

This morning I checked the current to see if the whistle made any difference. I could not see any additional swing on the meter over the usual scatter. The whistle is triggered by a track magnet.

The ABA units had been out all night. I was surprised that the start up amperage was over 5 amps, My meter only goes up to 5. It quickly settled down to about 3 amps.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Probably caps charging in the power supply for the sound units.

Do they have any rechargeable batteries in the circuit?

Thanks again Chuck, these brief heavy power requirements may explain a lot of behavior that did not seem to make sense. It's not a great mental leap to realize this behavior could trigger an overcurrent situation in smaller power supplies.

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

I have two LGB F7B sound units and two of their Alco (?) road switchers with sound (White Pass and Santa Fe). I'm sure they must have caps to power sound after the track power is turned off. I have not encountered a battery anywhere in any of them.

Chuck

I just reread most of the earlier posts in this thread. Dan said that there is a cap in the sound car.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

How long did it take to settle from 5 amps to 3?

I guess it could be charging the sound caps... if there are no keepalive batteries, then the caps could be pretty substantial. 

Any idea how long the sound continues after shutting track power off entirely?

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

I didn't time it, but probably less than two minutes. It dropped down to 4 amps by it was half way around and after the next loop it was all the way down. The low the night below was about 40, I attributed the high draw to the colder temperature and the current needed to get the train moving.

The sounds lasts for 10-20 seconds. It is supposed to rain today. I'll time it when it drys up. I'll also check on the current draw on starting the train after it has warmed up.

Chuck


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, the LGB See thrus will draw more current as these have 5 volt lamps under the roof and the circuit board in the B has to supply this. All other LGB B units do not have this board or 5 volt lights. LGB usually runs bulbs at 6.2 to 6.8 volts so the current for each is over 50ma.
Also the B has supercaps for power storage on the sound board and the sound will play for 20 seconds when power is removed.
Note the B unit does have 2 audio amps on the sound board and can feed a speaker in an AB config or in 2 A units with the single B off.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan, is the supercap "array" about 1 farad?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes it would average out to about 1 farad.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

I just took the clear F7 ABs and the B&O F7 (not clear) ABs out. I could not detect a significant difference in the amps needed for startup and running. It on rollers in a test bench there might be a small difference, but I couldn't see one on my outdoor track.

Like Dan said, the sound when the power was turned off lasted for 21 seconds, same for both pairs.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I feel that the temporary large current draw was indeed charging the capacitors.

It all makes sense to me now, and I've learned something, thanks.

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

That is what this site is all about. We all learn from each other.

Chuck

As an aside, in a totally different communication I was reminded of the following quote. I wrote a procedural manual for a technique for dating geologic material back in 1976. Someone ask me for the reference. I received the following response from him. 

"I like really your comment in the introduction: "Why make the same mistakes everyone else has, when you can be original.""

To me that is what we are all about.

Merry Christmas and a Happy Holiday to all


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks for all the input on F7 AB units. I need to upgrade to a digital multi-meter to keep up with you guys. 
Ewald


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Good idea. They aren't very expensive and very helpful. I know next to nothing about electricity, but even I find it useful.

Chuck


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

chuck n said:


> Greg
> 
> That is what this site is all about. We all learn from each other.
> 
> ...


 
What a GREAT quote! I need an attribution to stick with it so all will know who said it... can you supply me a bit more of a name/date and such?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I like using my 50 year old PACO meter (a kit from Lafayette radio) which has a 50 U amp movement. It reads average current and draws real current,. I find newer electronic meters can give false voltage readings as they do not draw much current, not an issue with motors but a big issue when trouble shooting some difficult issues.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Semper!

I really appreciate your comment. Here is a reference to my first use of the phrase.

Naeser, Charles W., 1976, Fission track dating: U.S. Geological Survey Open-File Report 76-190, p. 1-68.

It is sort of a corollary to a "LAW" that my father used many times. 
He was a university chemistry professor and was forever trying to perfect 
his lab manual for freshman chemistry. He came up with "Naeser's Law"
"You can make things fool proof, but not dammed fool proof."

That has shown up in the Murphy's law desk top calender.

Chuck

I think that I have used my phrase several times here, when answering a newbie's question.


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

ewaldbee said:


> I'm looking at a MRC 9900 powerpack on ebay. Looks like that unit will have the amps I need for now.
> Ewald


Update on the MRC 9900.
It came in the mail today so I hooked it up to my 47 ft. around the Christmas tree layout. (I added 16 ft. yesterday when my wife was out shopping). The 9900 gave me enough power to hear all the sound that I was missing on my LGB F7 AB unit. The Misses wants to know if there is a volume control?
Ewald


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The F7 has a volume control on the rear of the FB unit and this end should be away from the leading A unit in order for the left rail magnet to be the bell and right rail magnet to be the whistle an LGB standard.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

There is also a small switch on the back under the volume control: 0,1,2.

"0" is all sound off
"1" is A sound on B sound off
"2" is A and B sound on

Position "1" will be a little quieter, because only the A unit speaker is on.

If you have a second A unit, positon "1" will provide sound in the two "As".

Chuck


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If you do not hook up the 4 wire cable then the A unit will not get sound at all.
Never tie 2 B units together with the 4 wire cable as this shorts out audio amplifiers, 2 wire cable is ok as this 2 wire cable is track power.


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

ewaldbee said:


> Update on the MRC 9900.
> It came in the mail today so I hooked it up to my 47 ft. around the Christmas tree layout. (I added 16 ft. yesterday when my wife was out shopping). The 9900 gave me enough power to hear all the sound that I was missing on my LGB F7 AB unit. The Misses wants to know if there is a volume control?
> Ewald


 Bad news on the MRC 9900. I had all the grand kids over today to watch and listen to the F7. Turned on the MRC only to find alternating red and green lights blinking. I removed everything off the track thinking there was a short somewhere. That didn't make any difference so I disconnected the track wire completely and still no change. I must have gotten a lemon. I hope I can return it and get something different. 
Should I stay away from MRC products? What are some other options?
Thanks


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

This is what I would buy, believe it or not.. remember it has PWM output, so certain sound cards will need a filter.

http://www.shourtline.swl4.com/Crest-55401-10_Amp_Ctrll_andSL-PS300-24-1-27_EBAY.html


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

Greg Elmassian said:


> This is what I would buy, believe it or not.. remember it has PWM output, so certain sound cards will need a filter.
> 
> http://www.shourtline.swl4.com/Crest-55401-10_Amp_Ctrll_andSL-PS300-24-1-27_EBAY.html


Hi Greg, I'm looking at Bridgewerks products. Could you help me understand the difference between the controller and the power supply. Same question on the Crest set-up you referenced.
Does the Bridgewerks Magnum 5-SR controller for example have it's own internal 5 AMP power source or does it have to be fed by an outside power source? (Mag 15)
Thanks, Ewald


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

when it comes to the batteries,, has anyone adapted a 18v battery used for power tools

like a dewalt or makita which are pretty small and would fit easily in a box car and with 4 or 5 amps would last
quite a while and be replaced easily

are these power tool batts suitable


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ewald

In the case of Greg's picture, the aluminum colored unit on the bottom is a power supply. It puts out a constant 24volts with a 10 amp maximum. On that unit, there is no way to adjust the voltage, speed. Flat out all the time. That is where the controller, black unit on top (see the dial) comes in. With the dial you can adjust the voltage to the tracks from 0-24volts. 

Many power supplies have a controller built in and some don't. 

I have several Bridgewerks power supplies and I'm pleased with them. In my opinion, 5 amp unit is limiting, but it all depends on what engines and trains you will be running. I have a USAT streamliner: F3AB and 6 lighted cars that pulls about 7 amps. Think about what your railroad might be like in a few years, a 10 or 15 amp supply might be a better purchase in the long run.

Chuck


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck N, The 1 position on the switch is for ABA for both A units to have sound, no B sound.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan

I was referring to the AB set up. As that is what I think he has..

Chuck


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

Chuck
I came across the Bridgewerks web site last week and was impressed with their explanation of controllers and power supplies. Yesterday I called their contact number and talked with David. I believe he is the owner. Great guy to talk to. We talked about the Magnum 15SR controller. One unit with ample power built into a controller. Nice clean approach. David thought that for a few bucks more the 15SR over the 5SR was the way to go.
I'm glad to hear that you have Bridgewerks products and are happy with them.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ewald

I've met with Dave several times at shows. Great guy, with great procucts and they are American made!

I think the mag15SR would be a good choice.

Chuck


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Daveyb, yes, folks have used power-tool batteries for their trains, and they work very well. In almost all cases, the folks put them in a car behind the locomotive for easy access to replace them when they go flat (to say nothing of the fact that they're by and large an absolute bugger to hide inside a locomotive). 

One word of caution: Please remember to keep at least one battery charged and ready to go for household chores. "Honey, I'd love to hang that shelf for you, but my batteries are dead because I was running trains all day" tends to be an invitation to sleeping on the couch.

Later,

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Remember that Bridgewerks are NOT regulated power supplies, and are not to be used with DCC systems, DC only. Also do NOT use them on trains with DCC decoders inside, even if running in "DC mode".

Unloaded, the systems can put out pretty high voltage (30-35 volts) and damage DCC systems.

This does not affect "normal" DC locos, because the load of the motor and lights pulls the voltage down to a safe level. (again, this is because this is an unregulated supply).

Also, DCC does not require filtered analog DC as a supply, inexpensive REGULATED current limited switching power supplies are better.

Greg


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## daveyb (Feb 28, 2009)

East Broad Top said:


> Daveyb, yes, folks have used power-tool batteries for their trains, and they work very well. In almost all cases, the folks put them in a car behind the locomotive for easy access to replace them when they go flat (to say nothing of the fact that they're by and large an absolute bugger to hide inside a locomotive).
> 
> One word of caution: Please remember to keep at least one battery charged and ready to go for household chores. "Honey, I'd love to hang that shelf for you, but my batteries are dead because I was running trains all day" tends to be an invitation to sleeping on the couch.
> 
> ...


thanks kevin,,, the slide on batteries do look to be suited for providing power

and if your a tradesmen who uses them it make sense to make use of them for running trains

good point about the wife,,,,, best to keep a few spare batteries charged just in case,,,,


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg is correct about DCC. But since I don't use DCC and don't intend to, I'm happy with the Bridgewerks units.

I've added battery and R/C to a couple of my engines so that I can take them to other layouts. 

Chuck


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Ewald,

I run both Airwire battery power and DC track power. About 5 years ago I purchased a used Bridgewerks Magnum 15-SR from fellow MLS'r Ron Senek.

I consider it *MY* best train purchase I have ever made. I had been using an LGB 5 amp power supply that was no longer sufficient for the multiple trains I wanted to run. With the Magnum 15SR I don't worry or have to deal with track power supply issues no matter what *I* run.

That is a great feeling.

Tommy
Rio Gracie


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## ewaldbee (Jan 5, 2009)

Tommy,
I'm feeling more comfortable now making a purchase from Bridgewerks after reading some of the comments here. My plan is to run track power on a separate isolated loop from the main run which I'll run battery power. I won't be using DCC on the track power section so the Magnum 15-SR should work OK.
Ewald


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck N I was referring on how the switch really works for anyone reading this as others may have the ABA or ABBA setup and the original poster could add additional units so I stated how the switch really works for all cases.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan

When running the LGB F7 as an ABBA lash up, is there any way to silence the bell/whistle in one of the Bs? Or is there a way to use one sound unit to power the speakers in all 4 units?

Earlier you mentioned not connect to the 2Bs.

Chuck


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The only way to silence the bell/whistle is to place a on/off switch on the center wire from the reed sensors as this will keep the ground from enabling the 2 sound triggers.
If always running the ABBA, then just cut the center wire.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, rarely do it, mostly just curious.

Chuck


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

The more I learn about 1 thing the more I discover something I don't know about something else.

Converting an LGB F7 to Airwire battery power seems interesting/challenging to me.

An F7A has no sound but has powered wheels while an F7B has a DUAL sound system (can provide sound to an AA or to an AB (ABA gets challenging) but no motors). My LGB F7AB/ABBA's likely have 1/2 the pulling power of Aristo or USA AB/ABBA's because my Aristo & USA B units are motorized.

Also, the LGB B units have no track contacts.

An F7 ABBA has 2 motored A units and 4 B sound systems and sounds fantastic with sound from all units. 

Most F7's are wired for and may come with LGB/Massoth MTS/limited DCC decoders. Some might replace the electronics but that might introduce finding compatible systems for 5 volt lights & smoke units & LGB motors & if you like lighted coaches, amps might dramatically increase.

You could power lighted coaches with track power.

I like & use Bridgewerks power & remotes but (as mentioned, they are unregulated) so produce pure DC that can (with our local power) put out up to 35 volts DC. With a lot of track there have been times when I have appreciated that extra voltage and amps. I also like & use some Aristo/Crest power supplies & controls but they add PWM which may or may not be best for some motors, electronics & sound systems. 

I also like & use LGB & Massoth Central Stations & power supplies but there are other brands (including Massoth) with more DCC capabilities.

Most recent Aristo locos are pre-wired for battery power or for drop in Revolutions which I also like & use.

I have an Aristo RS-3 with Airwire but I forgot what sound system or how it is wired.

There are things I like & some issues I know of with all brands. I don't make recommendations but I generally buy what appeals to me & can usually make it work. The simplest path has usually been to minimize mixing brands (or at least using brands that are recommended as compatible).

LGB trains with LGB/Massoth power & electronics; Aristo trains with Aristo/Crest power & electronics & USA trains with Bridgewerks power & controllers (or MTH with MTH power & electronics).

I am sure other systems may be as good or better. I just want variety, compatibility and minimum problems and minimum mental challenges.

I don't use battery power other than infrequently putting a car with a battery from something behind an Aristo loco & running it with a Revolution. Still, others love their battery power so I am happy for them.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

ewaldbee said:


> Chuck
> I came across the Bridgewerks web site last week and was impressed with their explanation of controllers and power supplies. Yesterday I called their contact number and talked with David. I believe he is the owner. Great guy to talk to. We talked about the Magnum 15SR controller. One unit with ample power built into a controller. Nice clean approach. David thought that for a few bucks more the 15SR over the 5SR was the way to go.
> I'm glad to hear that you have Bridgewerks products and are happy with them.


Dave Sauerwald (Bridgewerks president) is one of the very best when it comes to customer service.

I agree that the 15 amp 15SR would be a better choice over the 5 amp 5SR. It is too easy to outgrow 5 amps.

Dave also has handy little UR-15 remotes that I use with 15SR's & with a Mag-15 (no throttle). The UR-15 is a bit expensive (worth it to me) and years ago Dave told me how to make a tethered remote for a 15SR.

http://www.bridgewerks.com/#!ur15-remote/czdv

http://www.bridgewerks.com

Jerry


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

My LGB F7B units have a single motor block and power pickups. So, my ABA clear unit has 5 motors and my AB black widow unit has 3 motors. I did add weight to the B units.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> My LGB F7B units have a single motor block and power pickups. So, my ABA clear unit has 5 motors and my AB black widow unit has 3 motors. I did add weight to the B units.


Hi Dan,

You are the guy I would ask 1st if I wanted to convert an F7 to battery power. I assume you added the motor blocks to your F7B units(?).

Some of my favorites are my F7 See Thru ABBBBBBA "Interurbans." To me they look and sound fantastic.

Since I converted to Apple I'm not sure if this link still works with Windows but I assume it does.

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/jerrymccolgan/LGB/F7ST3.wmv

I appreciate the help you and Axel have provided over the years.

Jerry


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes, I added a motor block to each F7B. And for one person I took the B unit sound unit and block and inserted it his A unit after adding the motor, wheels, and power pickups. It now can be an AA unit with LGB sound!!


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

Dan Pierce said:


> Yes, I added a motor block to each F7B. And for one person I took the B unit sound unit and block and inserted it his A unit after adding the motor, wheels, and power pickups. It now can be an AA unit with LGB sound!!


Nice.


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