# powering questions



## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

Two questions:

1. How do you go about wiring a small steam engine that just has a light and a motor?
any answers in the form of a post, website referance, even a phone number would help.

2. How long would 1.5V D-cell batteries last if grouped together to get the volts needed to run a small locomotive locomotive, not battery packs? 

--JJWtrainman 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Well because you are in the battery and R/C forum I'm thinking for battery power.... 
1st. Disconnect all track power pickups 
2nd. is there a board on the motor? There may be a connection there for the light, depending on the brand(?) of loco there may be a rectifier to lower the voltage for the bulb... the rest of the board may be for noise suppression. 

#2 depends on the motor's draw, all brands ar different and what speed you run and the type of controller etc.... 

The more info you give the better. Without some form of control (R/C) you will go full power until the batteries die.... 

I'd suggest you go to Del's site and read up, he's an advertiser here and you can learn what the game is there... G Scale Graphics, don't let the name fool you, he knows his R/C. 

John


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

"Small steam engine" and "D-cell battery" aren't exactly the most compatible concepts that come to mind. D-cell batteries are fairly large, and getting enough to run a steam loco at any speed would require probably 6 or more of them. I don't know what the capacity of the average D-cell battery is, but I used to get 4 - 5 hours run time on a typical locomotive (Bachmann Heisler, 2-8-0, 4-4-0, etc.) on alkaline AA batteries. (I'd sometimes use alkalines instead of rechargables during open houses, so not to worry about having batteries go flat on me during the event.) I'd imagine D-cell batteries have a great deal longer life, so maybe 12 - 16 hours or more? 

The rest depends on the particular locomotive; how involved the on-board electronics might be. At the most basic level, you'd wire the output of the battery through a power switch directly to the motor and light, discarding all other electronics on the locomotive. That doesn't give you any kind of speed control, though. 

A bit more info as to what you've got in mind might be helpful to give you a more specific answer. 

Later, 

K


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I would go into the engine, pick up the track input leads, and run them to the tender and then to a connector on the rear of the tender. Then I would install some type of R/C receiver in a trailing boxcar, and also the C cell batteries in the boxcar. With this type of installation you would always have to have the boxcar (or whatever type of car you choose) behind the engine, but it would then be easy to exchange the batteries when necessary without disassembling the engine or tender (if you could even get them in there). With this type of installation, the engine would operate the same as if it were receiving power from the track.

Ed


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## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

The engine I was thinking of is a Bachmann 0-4-0 side tank locomotive, which I found is VERY powerful, pulling a 3 car western- style passenger train up a 3% grade. There is only two lights on it (head lamp out front and a cab light) and the only other thing that requires power is the motor. I do not know exactly, but I think that these engines in later models by Bachmann are DCC ready, however mine is a lot earlier than that. So I do not suspect any large circuit board of any kind. I am not worried about weight because if D-cell batteries are too large, perhaps C-cell batteries. They are smaller than D-cells but much larger than AA's. Plus a small locomotive doesn't look prototypical pulling 10-15 cars, and I don't even have that many in my roster. So my point is that I am not worried about weight issues at all. I just want to have a simple R/C engine that does the most basic functions: forward-stop-reverse. 

and a further question, are there any controllers/ recivers made for something that basic?


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## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

Even if there isn't a controller that basic, I wouldn't mind operating it from an on-board switch. If the train speed was dictated by volts, I would think that 18 volts would run the engine slower than 24 volts.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Take a look at Del's Critter control, there's several versions, but he has what you need. 

*http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/De...ritter.htm* 












Regards, Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Didya go to Del's site as suggested? 
He has a basic critter control, speed control w/on board switch... 

If you can wire a DPDT toggle switch with center off, you can have forward, reverse and off, but no speed control. 

CR123 batteries will give longer run times and less weight than your Ds 

Though both my locos carry 16.8 volts on board I never give them full power, they would be sprinting around the track, one hits top speed at 12 volts.... 

The only board I mentioned was on on the motor, of my 2 locos one had one the other didn't. On the one that did, it also had a rectifier to drop voltage for the lights... you may need to keep it to prevent the bulbs from burning up. Boards on the motor help with electronic 'noise' and have little to do with PnP sockets nor DCC. 

John


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Even C-cell batteries in a B'mann 0-4-0 is going to be a tall order. To get the loco to move above a moderate crawl, you're going to need at least 5 cells, for 7.5 volts. That will give you a scale speed around 10 mph (which is a sedate and prototypical pace for such a small loco). 

I did a battery conversion of a B'mann saddle-tank 0-4-0 a few months ago. 










Click here to see the thread. I used a 7.4 volt Li-Ion battery pack (2600 mAh), which is small enough to fit in the boiler. I get around 7 hours per charge because the loco doesn't draw that much current. The battery is the thing in the white wrapper, and the PC board is the MyLocoSound sound board. I used one of Del's Critter Controls that Greg mentioned above for manual control. It works great. See the thread linked above for photos of where I put the controls. 

If you're looking for some kind of basic R/C control, I've got two old RCS "elite" control systems listed in the Classifieds which would do very well for this loco (gratuitous plug). I believe they need 12 volts minimum to operate, so you'd have to use a 14.8 volt Li-Ion battery to get that voltage, but on the side tanker, the boiler/tank assembly is mostly hollow underneath so you can easily fit the battery laying flat. Other R/C control systems would work equally well, but may be more sophisticated than what you need for this loco. The "Elite" controller is pretty straightforward. 

Later, 

K


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## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

that simple critter is a good idea, and after a quick internet search, I found a speed controller module that varies the voltage and therefore the RPM of any motor it is a attached to. this would be great is used with the simple critter in that acceleration and minute changes in speed would be possible.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You probably want to look at the Basic critter too, if you want more features... 

I am a little confused though, what is it that you really want? One post seems to just say on off, then R/C for forward, reverse, stop, then "minute changes in speed". 

maybe you are exploring all the options...... 

Greg


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## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

Well what I am trying to do is explore options and after some research I have found out what I want for this particular loco: 
simple forward-stop-reverse operation 
speed control 
powered by standard AA or C batteries (in other words, no battery packs) 

that is about it.


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## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

And because the loco is a switcher, I wouldn't mind having to walk along side the train as it rolls down the track because when I get my larger railroad built, the switcher would be in the yard shunting cars which requires constant attention to the train.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you're looking to use R/C, you'll need 12 volts minimum for most systems. If you go with alkaline batteries (not very economically practical to say nothing of the environment), then that's 9 batteries. Most folks would in that instance use NiMH AA cells, which means 10 at a minimum, most use 12 for 14.4 volts so there's room for the batteries to drain and still provide adequate power to the control. (That's why I suggested the Li-Ion pack--the same power in less than 1/2 the space). That many C-cell batteries in a loco that small is a non-starter. 

If you're going to use fewer batteries, you'll need to use something llike Del's critter control since that runs on fewer batteries. The catch there is that the loco is then manual control, and you'll need to be able to reach the controls to operate the locomotive. If your railroad is on the ground, this isn't exactly the most practical solution. (Ask the live steam guys.) 

An alternative--though not really ideal--is to use an electronic speed control designed for R/C cars, planes, and boats. They typically don't have near as smooth speed control as the controls specifically designed for trains, but for switching in a yard at slow speeds, it might prove quite adequate. You'd need that, and a commercial 2.4 gHz R/C transmitter/receiver set. (You'd only need one channel for the speed control, as it does both speed and direction on the same channel.) Neither should be terribly expensive; I've seen 4-channel 2.4 gHz transmitter/receiver sets for as low as $45. The speed controls should be similarly inexpensive for what you need. (You could easily spend $200 on both, too, but each component would be way more than what you'd need.) 

Later, 

K


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By East Broad Top on 18 Mar 2011 08:31 AM 
If you're looking to use R/C, you'll need 12 volts minimum for most systems. If you go with alkaline batteries (not very economically practical to say nothing of the environment), then that's 9 batteries. Most folks would in that instance use NiMH AA cells, which means 10 at a minimum, most use 12 for 14.4 volts so there's room for the batteries to drain and still provide adequate power to the control. (That's why I suggested the Li-Ion pack--the same power in less than 1/2 the space). That many C-cell batteries in a loco that small is a non-starter. 

If you're going to use fewer batteries, you'll need to use something llike Del's critter control since that runs on fewer batteries. The catch there is that the loco is then manual control, and you'll need to be able to reach the controls to operate the locomotive. If your railroad is on the ground, this isn't exactly the most practical solution. (Ask the live steam guys.) 

An alternative--though not really ideal--is to use an electronic speed control designed for R/C cars, planes, and boats. They typically don't have near as smooth speed control as the controls specifically designed for trains, but for switching in a yard at slow speeds, it might prove quite adequate. You'd need that, and a commercial 2.4 gHz R/C transmitter/receiver set. (You'd only need one channel for the speed control, as it does both speed and direction on the same channel.) Neither should be terribly expensive; I've seen 4-channel 2.4 gHz transmitter/receiver sets for as low as $45. The speed controls should be similarly inexpensive for what you need. (You could easily spend $200 on both, too, but each component would be way more than what you'd need.) 

Later, 

K 

Hi Kevin.
My range of R/C ESC's will work down to 7.2 volts.
Shortly I hope to offer a couple of very low cost speed and direction only R/C ESC's. The 3 amp version will sell for less than US$40. Made in the USA too!!!


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Good to know. That's your Beltrol stuff, correct? 

Later, 

K


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin. 
For a number of reasons, mostly due to lack of brand recognition, I decided to drop the name Beltrol. At least for now. 
RCS is much better known. Since Dave Goodson and the "group" declined the offer to purchase the business name and the goodwill, I decided that I might as well keep using the name RCS and sell everything I make under the name Remote Control Systems (RCS).


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