# scale of LGB



## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

I am looking at a LGB Caterpillar 2063 switcher (to purchase). But I have a couple of questions.

1. can anybody tell me the approximate scale of this locomotive?
2. was there such a thing in RL (real life)? I cannot find very many references to actual Caterpillar locomotives, but they did supply a lot of diesel engines for locomotives.
3. would this pass (10ft. rule) for a Plymouth gasoline switcher loco?
4. any opinions on how good these are? small trains, nothing huge.
5. if anyone would recommend alternatives, it would be appreciated.
6. are there other very early period (pre-1940) diesel or gas engine locomotives that are represented as models?

Thanks all!


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

They are a nicely made model and running qualities are second to none. LGB kind of had a rubber ruler so they could get them to run around thier R1 curves. But most are scaled 1:22.5 which is for Meter gauge in Europe. Thier American models are loosely based on this scale till you get into the later diesels like the F7 and Amtrak Genesis engine. The little Cat powered Davenport engine is based off the prototype on the DRGW. The scale isnt correct for 45mm gauge track if you want to rivet count. If scaled correctly, it would be 1:20.3. Accucraft did that engine in that scale in brass, but its not cheap and I feel doesn't run as well as the LGB one does. If the LGB one looks good to you, then go for it as you cannot go wrong with how well they run. Mike


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Helmut;

The LGB D&RG locomotive should work just fine. Since you asked about other small (critter) locomotives that could work for you, I would also propose the Bachmann Davenport in 1:20.3 scale.
This is a very small locomotive, but good for 3-4 cars. The photo shows mine at work on the "snack train" at a cookout for an organization that I helped found. The locomotive had to run at a sedate speed so guests were not obliged to chase down their snacks.









Note: these locomotives have been out of production for several years, but offerings may still be found with larger dealers.

Regards,
David Meashey


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Mike and Dave,
Thank you! Dave especially for the pics. That Davenport does look small, but in general I plan only small trains so it would also work.

any chance anyone has a pic of the LGB with other rolling stock or locos?


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

1. can anybody tell me the approximate scale of this locomotive?
Pretty dead-nuts on for the prototype in 1:22.5, but works very well when measured in 1:20.3 as well. The prototype is deceptively large, despite its "little loco" looks.

2. was there such a thing in RL (real life)? I cannot find very many references to actual Caterpillar locomotives, but they did supply a lot of diesel engines for locomotives.
It was made by Davenport locomotive works in 1937. It's a 30-ton locomotive. It was powered by a 160-hp Caterpillar diesel engine. 

3. would this pass (10ft. rule) for a Plymouth gasoline switcher loco?
Definitely. Google "Plymouth Switcher" and you'll see photos of industrial locos very similar in appearance. 

4. any opinions on how good these are? small trains, nothing huge.
Mine runs very well, and will pull a train far longer than its prototype would be able to. It's one of my "set something out to run around the garden while I work" locos. 

5. if anyone would recommend alternatives, it would be appreciated.
The above Bachmann Davenport loco would be an alternative. Also Hartland's "Mighty Mack" would be something esle to look at.

6. are there other very early period (pre-1940) diesel or gas engine locomotives that are represented as models?
Accucraft makes a 1:20.3 version of the LGB Davenport, as well as a smaller Plymouth switcher and larger Whitcomb center cab. 

I'll try to get some pics of my LGB diesel over the weekend.

Later,

K


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Kevin,
Thx. for the replies. sounds like I should nab this LGB if I can.

Pics would be awesome if you are up for it.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have several of these engines. For track power there is one thing I always change.
The wheel with the traction tire is too far from the slider and when crossing plastic frogs or crossovers you loose power. I take the time to flip the axles from front to back (can not do a 180 turn, must be flipped!!). Now flip the side rods for the hex bolt/nut to be on top. It is amazing how well it runs after doing this. I also take the time to dremel out the radiator grill and install a 2 inch speaker there with cloth behind the grill. Awesome sound now.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

When I had my DRGW #50, I filled the hood area with battery cells, she was a "set and go" engine with no RC control, just turn on the switch and she would run for 5-6 hours without any attention. Took 30 min or so to rechange once it was dead. I only ran really short trains due to a small layout. I picked up a wheelset that lacked the traction tire and gave mine all metal wheel sets and no traction tire. With the drag of the track sliders gone, she pulled anything I needed her to. Definately one of LGB's better engines for small and large layouts. Ranks up there with thier Mogul. Mike


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Thx guys, I do plan on battery and rc of some type. good to know there is room inside.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Some pics of the two locos for comparison. The box car is the same width and height as a standard LGB, Bachmann, or USA Trains box car.

Bachmann Davenport:










LGB Davenport:










Both locos:










Later,

K


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Kevin,
Awesome! Thx, I like both of them, but the LGB marginally better for some reason.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

So do I. There's something about its proportions that just appeals to me. 

This one's not 100% finished yet. I've still got to weather it. It's got a TCS WowSound decoder, 14.8v battery, Tam Valley Depot receiver, and 2" Visaton speaker all packed under the hood. 

Later,

K


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Nice - which TCSWow? I am starting to look at sizing decoders for my stuff.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I'm using the WowDiesel 101 decoder. It's rated at 1.3 amps continuous, 2 amps peak--plenty for this loco. I've had it running outside for 2+ hours at a time with no problems. 

(You've inspired me to finally finish weathering this loco. I'll post photos once I'm done.)

Later,

K


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Kevin,
Thank you. It seems that a lot of G locos are actually able to operate off of HO decoders, at least the smaller locos I have been looking at and have. But even the Bachmann 4-6-0 looks like it can, one just has to be selective about the specifications.

I would like to see it once completed.

Thanks again!


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

hlfritz said:


> Kevin,
> Thank you. It seems that a lot of G locos are actually able to operate off of HO decoders, at least the smaller locos


Helmut,

If you are thinking of using an H0 decoder in a G-scale loco make sure the H0 decoder can handle the G-Scale DCC voltage.
H0 DCC is 14 volts and many H0 decoders will only handle 16 or 18 VDCC.
Don't just look at the amps.

Knut


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Knut,
yep, and thx. (i think you meant 24V vs. 14V? - probably typo)


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

hlfritz said:


> Knut,
> yep, and thx. (i think you meant 24V vs. 14V? - probably typo)


No Helmut, I did mean 14 volts DCC *for H0.
*That's based on 12 volt DC maximum for DC in H0 scale plus 2 volts to allow for the diode bridge and MODFET drop of the decoder so that in the end 12 volts get to the motor, same as if you ran the loco with DC.Many* H0 decoders *are only rated for 16 or 18 volts DCC, in fact most H0 decoders don't even specify the maximum DCC voltagethey can handle. NMRA specifies that H0 decoders should handle up to 27 Volts DCC but many don't.

Large Scale in my mind should run at a DCC voltage of 26 volts, 2 volts above the max. DC voltage for Large Scale which is 24 VDC, at least for LGB.
But NMRA specifies the maximum DCC voltage at 22 volts DCC and I recall Digitrax specifying the Large Scale DCC voltage as low as 16 volts.

All a bit confusing as far as Large Scale is concerned.

Just make sure that any H0 decoder you plan as using will handle the DCC voltage you plan to use with a bit of a margin.
A max allowable voltage of 27 volts or higher would be good.


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Knut, my bad! i read it wrong. thank you for the additional info!


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Most G scale do not need anywhere near 24 volts to run correctly. I find the track speed fine with anything between 7.2 and 14.8 volts. The higher voltage is common for onboard battery conversion, with sometimes 18vt used but 14.8 vt is more common. My set and go engines have 7.2 vt batteries in them, perfect narrow gauge speed and good speed for R1 curves. Even the DRGW #50 ran great on a 6 cell, 7.2vdc, Nimh battery with run times over 4 hours normal with a 30min recharge time. That was without any RC electronics to add to the battery drain time either, Just the headlight and light inside the cab. Both of which I ran direct off the feed to the motor using LGB 5vt bulbs. I put many many hours on the engine without any light bulbs going "poof" MIke


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## hlfritz (Apr 6, 2017)

Thx Mike, that helps since I will be running batteries (and RC).


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Robbie at RLD hobbies is an excellent source of onboard batteries and RC controlers for G scale.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree with Knut, there are a number of locos, most often more modern diesels, that need voltages close to 24 volts. The Aristo Craft 3 axle diesels, for example will only go 62 smph at a DCC track voltage of 20 volts. Have some voltage drop and you cannot come close to a normal prototypical speeds.

Now of course, if you are modelling a loco that only goes 25 smph, you need less voltage.

Greg - 825


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Thats with DCC Greg, we are discussing onboard battery power. Most diesels I have watched run at the huge layout at RLD hobbies, are running either 14.8 or 18vt onboard battery power with either Crest Revo or RCS control systems. AND they are running at a prototypical track speed just fine in my view. Maybe with track fed DCC its different. BTW, these are mostly 6 axle modern diesels with a few 4 axle's mixed in. His little LGB diesel has NO need for 18-24volts worth of onboard battery, period.

Your best bet, is to call Robbie Dascotte at RLD, who is very experienced in onboard battery power and does installs. Explain what your expectations of speed and what engine you are working with. He can get you and sell you exactly what you need to completely do the install yourself or he can install everything in the engine for you. Highly recommended. Mike


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike, he is running deadrail... that is wireless DCC, the voltage drop through the decoder to the motor is the same.

Have you ever measured the smph of an Aristo 3 axle diesel vs voltage? I have. I gave a specific example and have measured the speed and voltage.

We are talking locos and deadrail in general, and I am reinforcing Knuts observations.

Greg - 824


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Thats why I suggested he call Robbie and discuss his needs directly with someone with lots of experience in both installs and operating with battery power. If you look at the RLD battery selection, most are 14.5 or 18.8 vt. Only a couple are 22.5vt. I doubt most guys run 60 smph, that would take some huge curves for 6 axle power going that speed. My friends LGB Amtrak Genesis with 18vt power onboard with Revo control is plenty fast at full throttle when running at the RLD open house. It is 78 scale miles per hour, I doubt it. But fast enough to convey passenger train speed. Any faster on a raised railway is a bit insane in my opinion anyways. A derailment at its speed now would be a huge mess if not a total loss of the engine if it went off the layout to the ground. It all comes down to what the OP wants. If you want to go 60+ scale mph, then a high power battery will be needed. If you want to run at normal narrow gauge speed, you dont need a high voltage battery. But you do want the highest mah(milli amp hour rated) battery you can fit. The higher the number, the longer it will last between recharging. My 7.2 vt, 5000 mah, 6 cell, Nimh battery in my LGB 2073d will last 4-6 hours of running if I do not use the smoke generator. Thats running the stock LGB motor, 3 headlights(I lighted the dummy lantern in front of the stack) and 1 cab light bulb. The speed is a nice sedate "narrow gauge" speed in my view. Mike


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The TCS decoders are rated for 24 volts according to their web site, so you're probably going to be fine on most DCC set-ups with these decoders. Moot point relative to this thread, since Helmut is running deadrail. You can easily do the LGB Davenport with 11.1 volts. It's plenty fast at that. That was my original plan, but the 11.1 volt battery I got from Cordless Renovations wouldn't charge on my charger, so I re-packaged one of my 14.8 volt batteries to fit the space instead. Top speed was higher, so I just used Audio Assist to adjust the motor trim speed down to reasonable. 

Later,

K


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I might have confused the issue.

When I read that Helmut was thinking of using "H0 decoders", I automatically thought of DCC operation since I don't know of too many H0 scale layouts that run with on-board batteries.
And as Greg mentioned, my comments were of a general nature, just a warning to check out the voltage the decoder can handle since many people just consider current and forget that voltage matters as well, especially if one uses a product not designed for G-Scale.

As to the voltage required to run at prototypical speed, that really varies quite a bit from loco to loco (even for the same manufacturer).
The best thing is probably to try the chosen loco on straight DC and measure the voltage and current required, then pick the battery voltage and decoder allowing for any losses through the decoder and any built-in electronics one wants to use.

Knut


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