# A Beginner's Site in Southern AZ



## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Since it was suggested by SD90WLMT AKA Dirk that there would be interest in another Southern AZ site I'm giving this a shot. In the past I've had HO and N gauge trains but since moving to AZ from CA I finally have room for G scale. Thanks to the guys at the Train Stop in Tucson I received a Aristocraft Live Steam Mikado for Christmas several years ago and that really started this project. As I'm a total newbie to the scale, MLS members have been a great help and inspiration. My site is about 70' x 35' and wraps around a mesquite tree that has some of the wife's roses planted around it. I'm not into kneeling on gravel all the time so two walls were required to raise the site about 20" above grade and separate the tree and roses from my "toys". Track planning has been done with 2 of the commercial software packages available and track spacing is based upon suggestions from MLS members to questions posted in the Beginner's Forum. I'm planning on staying with 1:29 and 1:24 scale, but again at suggestions from MLS folks I'm going to build big enough to handle 1:20.3 in case there are visitors that want to run their own equipment.
The project has gone from "When I win the lottery" size to "Darn that's a lot of bricks to carry." 
200 bricks for around the tree and roses then 1600 (10+ pallets) for that 20" wall. Add 14 dump truck loads of dirt, trench in 2 power drops (1 20 amp the other 15 amp) and a water supply. That's were I'm at so far. As soon as I figure out how to add photos to this site I'll do so. I'm sure I'll get plenty of feedback, along with chuckles, guffaws, and shaking heads from members. Alll suggestions are appreciated, although some will be taken with a grain of salt, I'm sure.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to the moving dirt corps. We have all been there and the results are worth it. My RRs in Colorado and Virginia required moving material. My quasi temporary RR in Sun City sits on a patio. It comes out when we arrive and goes in when we leave. Nancy and I hope to get down to southern AZ in April sometime. It would be nice to meet you and John. We've already had the pleasure of meeting Dirk. When we know our plans I'll let you guys know and I hope we can meet up. Chuck PICTURES, PICTURES!!!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Welcome to the running thread corp as well! 
Pics... Get a freebie act at Photobucket or the photo hosting site of your choice, upload your pics there, post link here. Then you can learn to embed them... 

On my old layout I had too many rocks, now I don't think I have enough! I find mine at the end of a 4 X 4 road.... 

Good to see ... will be good to see ....your growing Empire too. 

John


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Have







n't been down in the Tucson area in years....heading out this morning to Adobe RR park to the swap meet, but I understand the limits of a Sun City patio railroad. Good for testing, honing track laying skills and keeping out of the way of hummingbirds. I'm going to start on a back yard project this summer in Flagstaff (about 60x120 feet), but the area is already fully landscaped, so it has to be elevated and has to be gardener friendly....sigh.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Where in So Az? I get out to Tucson, and definitely am looking up Dirk when I get there. 

Greg


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Good morning Alan, glad your here!!!!! THX! 

I use ''Flicker'' to host My pix - then send 'em here for y'all to inspect!! Your choice like John said... 

Let's see now Greg, John is west of me about 40 minutes or so, me thinks? Just outside of Tucson.. 
Alan is down below in Sierra Vista way, watching the snow melt off the mountains, an hour plus from Me.. 

A growing LS community right here is Very Sunny today AZ!! 

Hoping to glue a final stretch of ballast AND lay,..... a 'token' RAIL today just fer fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Have fun guys!! Dirk


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh did not know John was even closer! Could be a fun "field trip"!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

all day - or - a day or 2!!! 

at least.............. 

D


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed, I was out at the Adobe Mt. Swap meet this morning. I bought a windmill from Stan and had a great time running my Aristo Mallet with the adult beverage cars. Too bad we didn't make contact. Cheers, Chuck


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Backyard before construction starts Also first try at adding photos


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

fyrekop, 

The dud links you had were the thumbnails, I removed the '_s'. You need to edit your post and use the hyperlink button to make active hyperlinks. 
Nice flat space for a railroad by the way!
Here they are: 


































Andrew


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the tech help. Now if I can just get it to work.  Now quick description of the photos that Andrew was kind enough to post correctly.
#1- site from east to west. There is about a 8" drop from the west to the east side. Already have the wall in place around the tree and roses.
#2 - looking north from the patio. I was limited to the west side due to leach-field pipes and to the east by new fruit trees
#3 - Marking stakes and string for outer wall and 3' walkway around the tree.
#4 - Scraping up several tons of gravel. Gravel was moved to other places in the yard rather than bury it which helped to offset future landscaping costs


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Still playing with getting photos to appear here. Hopefully I'll get it figured out soon :-(


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Gravel scraped from site and spread out over the rest of the yard


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk walked me through how to put in the photos and even I can do it now. 

I started the wall around the tree since yard drains from west to east which is a major consideration during the monsoons. The first course of block is in and leveled and extends out to the pathway opening. Marking stakes and string indicate where the wall will go.



Some time, and 1400 blocks, later the wall was done but I had to take down a section for the trucks to haul in the dirt.



After the driver made sure I had removed enough wall, he backed in and the real fun began.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Those trucks hold a lot of dirt




Then the dirt has to be moved from the big pile to fill in around the tree and out to the edges while the driver is going to get the next load. How many shovel loads does it take to move and level 200 cubic feet of dirt? 
I have no idea. Work smarter not harder. 



After 12 or 13 loads my helper showed up to start compacting the dirt.



After final load of dirt was delivered, the wall was rebuilt and back fill done. That was by the shovel full and I lost count after 25 or 30.



Fill in place and now letting nature aka rain and snow continue to compact the dirt. At the left end of the wall is the frame for my power station. To the left of framework is a water faucet disguised as a "rock". Rock was made using hydraulic cement method that I found on another thread in MLS. Flagstone pathway out to tree and roses has been started in the lower right.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Alan, your welcome!!!!!!! 

Back wall looks great to - more control and privacy now!! 

Your building memories in your backyard now!! 
all the pix will really get to ya one day!! Like, .. wow,.. I did all that...!! 

Keep having fun!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By chuck n on 16 Mar 2013 03:53 PM 
Ed, I was out at the Adobe Mt. Swap meet this morning. I bought a windmill from Stan and had a great time running my Aristo Mallet with the adult beverage cars. Too bad we didn't make contact. Cheers, Chuck 
That was You I talked to.


Later that day I was trying to think of who it was I was talking to at the swap meet and couldn't connect you with a MLS name. 


JJ


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ

Yup, that was me.

Chuck


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Now that distractions like having the house painted, daughter getting a new house that needed to be painted before she could move in (I'm thinking of starting a moving company so I can get paid for a sore back) I've been able to do some work on the train site before it gets too warm in the afternoons. As part of initial planning I determined that power drop from the closest existing 20 amp plug might be an issue. To solve that problem I dug a 50' trench from the 50 amp RV breaker box, added a 20 amp breaker, and conduit for large wire romex out to the site. Since the trench was already dug I tapped into a water line and put in a faucet, just in case I added a water feature later on. Not wanting the haul power supplies, boosters and other electronics out to the site, I built a Power Station to hold it all out of the weather. Materials included exterior grade Hardie-Board as sidings. 




Power line in and 1" PVC out to track through bottom shelf



1" PVC from Power Station into train site. Estimate I'll need 4 or 5 sets of #10 wire for blocks, accessories, and low voltage cable



Shelves in place about 12" high



Sides up awaiting metal roof plus rock collection



And so it grows


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

"And so it grows"...!!! Yep 

To think of all the work we do to make a railroad "grow" at home!!! 

Infrastructure takes time to build also, but is just as important as a great looking bridge!! Planning does it's number on our minds, what else do I need????? ha!! 

Mornings are a good time to be outside and work on layouts in the hot days and get watering done too!! 

With a power station to run power from, you will have your first pieces of track running in no time!! Cool!!!!! I could bring a non-converted loco by to run..... :-} ( NIB type ) 

I'm working against time currently. I want to beat the summer rains, in about 4-5 weeks...... 

Wife & I were in your area shopping on Sat. Lots of pipe for water and power lines came home in the car!! 

Stay cool Alan!!! 

Dirk


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

That is some beginning you have there. I wonder though with that kind of wall should you have planned for drainage? 
Plus another concern will be settling. Given time it is amazing how much dirt can settle no matter how much it is tamped down. How about Rocks for mountains and cliffs? Trains need bridges and tunnels to traverse. 
You are certainly off to a incredible start. 
Happy RRing


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan:


It is looking good, can't wait to see some pictures of track and trains running. It won't be long now.


Todd:

I don't think that drainage for Alan will be too much of a problem. His RR is elevated so he won't get slope wash flooding. A problem that plagued John (Totalwrecker), until he raised his roadbed. Unlike here in Virginia and the Cape where rain can last for hours and days at a time, the rain out there is short, rarely lasting longer than an hour or so.

When I build my first outdoor RR in Denver almost 30 years ago, I didn't think about drainage and I never had any problems. Armed with that knowledge, when I built my layout in Virginia I didn't plan for drainage. Big mistake! After every heavy rain I have to sweep leaves, pine needles, twigs, etc. off the track before I can run. The track is in the path of two downspouts off the roof.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm think'n the depth of the raised area will absorb most rain in the amounts we can get dumped on us here, and keep it off the tracks! 

As for summer monsoons tho - they can let loose a bucket full in a hurry, and that might be something to watch for and build ditches as needed. 

I do not have soft ground under my layout, so it requires me think'n ahead to see where water will flow and collect, so 
I can add culverts under track and make places for the running rivers to move away, rather than collect. And over flow or flood..... 

Added detail for the scenery master to play with... 
Added work to build a layout... 

The rains will be here soon enough tho!! 

Dirk ....


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk, that was my thoughts. It is like a big flower pot. If the "dirt" is more sand than clay, which it looks like in pictures it should be fine. If there is a problem, Alan make the center several inches lower than the track. The water would then drain to the center, down and out. Leaving the track high and dry. Chuck


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## Ted Nordin (Feb 27, 2008)

Fryekop, Go to Tucson Garden Railway Society Website and find next meeting and join. I need to also rejoin after a year hiatus. Great talent there. N ice back yard - where in SV are you?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks to all for the thoughts. Monsoons can be an issue here, last year I had a water line on my back fence 16 inches AGL where the fence drains are located in the northeast corner. Of course 30 minutes after the rain stopped all that was left was the dirt and debris line on the wall. I'm hoping that this years rains will drop the dirt level about an inch or so as it compacts so I'll have space to put down decorative gravel when track is in place.

Nice and warm (99 according to thermometer under the patio cover) here the past couple of days. I've been trenching to put in conduit. Ground is still soft enough to use a hoe with a little assistance from the pick. Finished up from the Power Station, along the north side, around the tree to the edge of the pathway this morning before it got too hot. Nine 10' sections, 4 junction boxes, 5 "Tween the track T's", 2 45 degree curves, plus some shorter cuts of pipe. Another Lowe's run for more pipe to finish up the south wall and then figure out where to trench for the inner loop. 30' between junction boxes based on advice from Greg E. and Dirk for power to tracks using DCC. Using round 4 hole boxes from Lowe's and "T" off a 12" section of conduit so wires will come up between the parallel (more or less) ovals that follow the wall. Plugged the 4th hole but didn't glue them shut so it's available for future expansion.



Official dirt checker at work



Main junction box, first split out with T



North side looking west with two junctions



East side around restricted space for roses and tree

South side to pathway. Moved away from wall due to sharp curve




T at end of run. Conduit along south wall will end on other side of walkway.

I'm thinking of building a wood bridge, level with the top pf the wall, for the pathway and cutting slots to hold Slip-Jaw brand walk way track rather than have 3 train bridges cross over the gap. 

Once south side is done it's time to start pulling wire.

Existing rocks will be joined by others to build a "Cliff" and raise the west end and center of the site about 16 - 18 inches requiring "Bridges and Tunnels". As Dirk and John know, finding rocks around here isn't the hard part. It's picking them up and carrying them around that's a pain. 

Ted, I'm located one long block west of Highway 92. The the back (north side) wall parallel's Kachina Trail. If you're on Kachina Trail driving west from 92 you can see the RV and solar panels in the back yard. I've been thinking about joining Tucson GRS for a couple of years but until recently only had trains on display in the house.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The E-Bay Gods smiled on me and my latest purchase turned out to be 12 sections of 20' diameter track, R10 for the radius folks. I did a little math before buying and came up with a diameter of 12' to 15' which fits into my track plan. Was very happy my math was off since 20' is the largest curve I'm planing at this point. .
It has been in the mid to high 90's here so instead of digging trenches for conduit I did a little "plan checking". Using a high-tech compass I located the center point of the curve at the northwest corner (junior high school geometry class was a long time ago) and marked the dirt, then laid down several sections of my new (used) track. Not exactly on the marks but only a bit of tweaking was needed to line things up the right distance from the outer wall.

String line and spray paint from end of straight attached to curved a measured 6" from wall for the outer track and 15 " for inner loop.




Facing west at slight angle to show track location and junction box for power. Extension for junction will need to be cut so "T" is between the tracks. High_Tech compass still in place at center point of curve.



Midpoint of north wall facing into the curve. High-Tech compass still in place at center point of curve.





Entering the curve. Added wall blocks to see what 12" outer wall looks like and placed some of rock collection about 6" inside marks for inner loop.




Wanted to make sure I have plenty of room between inner loop and wall for raised area in center of site. Possible tunnel site. Rocks will be replaced with concrete block if the tunnel goes in and areas that can be seen will have rock faces. Closer view of high-tech compass.



Looking south through the curve with outer wall blocking view of track. Looking more and more like a tunnel site. The main power junction box with extension (covered by board) for power to inside loop and junction box with "T" for outer loops require track to curve around a little. Will probably have a large, movable, rock or other feature to explain the curve and still have access to junction boxes. The piece of semi-straight track currently attached will be replaced or bent to make the curve.



Looking north from the Power Station





Seeing track, even temporarily, in place is a real motivator.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Looks good Alan! 
Diameters and raduii are based on LGB's mm track. So feet are close but not exact. The American market needed 'feet' to have a clue. 
Don't be afraid to cut the track to make it go where you wawt. That's what clamps are for. 

Happy Rails 

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

John, I agree about cutting. Also have this brand new dual rail bender I'm waiting to try out and that may well be the perfect place to start. Been looking at other threads about tunnels and various ways to make them. May end up with concrete roadbed around those curves since it won't be seen. 

Alan


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Also going to start looking for a couple of CHEAP 1:20.3 boxcars to use during track placement. I don't want a visitor's favorite Spectrum to find a tight spot after the track is in place or tunnels built.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Alan, Thanks for the un-expected visit to your train world!!! Short and very informative and - well Guys, it looks just like the pix do!! Alan's layout will be a great addition to the Southern flock of layouts in AZ. 

I was out of town and called, to find the door open for a brief visit with Alan this morning, in Sierra Vista. Got to see his trains, his collection and the excitement building ( Alan's ) his layout in his backyard! Had a good laugh, .. on me, !! ha, my 1st visit to his home .... and I thought it was across the street.... ooops!! Well,.. now I know!!! 

Even seeing it at this early stage, I can get a good feeling for what Alan is planning, and we should all enjoy running there soon!!!! 

Met the family, so next time will be even better, I'll have to bring something with me!! 

I seemed to pass the dogs - security test. lick, lick,.... whew... ha!! 

Thanks again Alan, Dirk. ....... got home safe, but warm,.. and with a big load of lumber and pipe - again!!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Thanks for the report Dirk. 
Been a bit silent on your end and I waz beginnin' to get concerned. 

Alan's looks so fancy, I've been dressin'up my messin's! Not that I'd be in competition tho'. 

John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk, thanks. I hope to get to see it and yours next winter. Alan sure is making progress. Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Chuck, e-bay was nice to Alan, !!! ..ha!! big help in the track dept!! 

John, you say quiet eh..!! If it gets toooo quiet ya could call, leave a mess., or I might catch ya while I'm watering.... 

Been real hot at my place, so I'm just the live-in watering boy!! Looking forward to retiring from that job, but not holding My breath.. not... not....! Do I look blue in the face!!?? YET! 

Ditches command my time, adding more lines and valves for new sections, filling more road back in, !!!! YA!! a good part!! keeping plants from screaming for water at me, well - just AZ!! 

Getting better, stone issue over with, and gone by-by!!! tooth fixed - today!!! more shopping and stocking up on concrete for 3 projects here. Quiet, - I'm working against time here!! 3 weeks till the monsoons hit.... and.... I want a bunch of stuff done before it gets wet!!! Remember that wet stuff!! Nearly forget Myself!! 

Drop on buy - plenty to be done!!!! 
...................................Dirk.............................. whew.......THX guys ...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I have been working on site drawings for some time but have now firmed it up a bit as the infrastructure is coming together. The attached picture is a 1:75 scale look using AnyRail software.



Hope this makes it easier to track what is actually being done. Early days since it's around 100 degrees here today


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan, looks very nice. Are going to have some cross overs from your outer loop with the main yard and the next loop in? I forget, if I ever knew, are you using track power or battery. If you are using track power, you have created a wye, in the yard leads. It is a short, unless you do some creative wiring. Chuck


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Chuck 
I'm wiring it for DCC so I'll need to look into a separate booster or maybe an automatic reversing module. I think I read about there being one for wye's but can't remember where. 
The double crossover will be where all those cones are on the #1 and #2 mains above the Bazemore Mine text box. I was watching the video of Ron's BRR and that crossover he put together looked great (Wonder if he does orders-to-go?) 
Not really a part of the thread but the mine, first named area on the site, is in memory of a good friend (Panel W26 Line 24 on The Wall) 
Alan


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan. Since you are using track power you will need to isolate the yard tracks from each of the rails coming in from the wye. Insulating all rails coming into the yard switch is necessary. If it was my layout I would put a DPDT on the power leads in the yard. If the train leaving or coming in from the right switch to the up position. Coming in or going out from the left, switch to the down position. Reversing loops can be automated, but keep it simple for the yard. Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Under DCC, simple is a $45 autoreverser with a built in circuit breaker... you can't damage anything and it is automatic. 

Seriously, a DPDT switch can cause shorts, and is silly/dangerous on DCC. 

Chuck, I'm not being mean, but how can you recommend a DPDT switch for a DCC layout?

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I figured you would correct me if I was wrong. I assume he still has to have gaps.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The plan for the"Yard" is a covered shed for store rolling stock and engines as they are acquired. The line outside of the blue area will be a steam-up area for live steam as well as a place for visitor's to place engines and cars prior to heading out to the main lines. I remember someone located in Australia that had a great idea and built a slide that made getting rolling stock onto the rails easy. Another one of those "Now where did I see that?" things. The yard and steam-up will be on ladder system about 2 1/2 feet off the ground for those of us that don't like bending over anymore than we have to.  When ready to start putting in electronics I'll be seeking help on where to gap the rails properly.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

A bit more for the trains then I took a break to put in some time towards the "Yes, it really will be part of the garden" list.
I finished up the last section of conduit for the two outer loops and now I'm sort of ready to begin puling wire. Also slapped a coat of paint on the Power Station before the rains really decide to start. Hardi Board yellow isn't part of the RR paint scheme.




Some friendly tips from a Lowe's person should be a big help in pulling wire. The 4 reels of #10 stranded wire are in the shed waiting but on hold until I finish up a bit of the "Yes, it's part of the garden" projects. While Dirk is building a picnic area in the middle of his site I went smaller and put in a "Oh aren't the roses pretty" area. Needless to say, guests won't be required to walk on the gravel.



Looking north from unfinished pathway. Flagstone will continue around to meet at the foot of the yet-to-be-built bridge.



Next trip to Lowe's will be for more leveling sand and a bunch of bags of that decorative rock . The track isn't really going on the wall.



This is the narrowest part of the site and will eventually have 3 parallel tracks looping around the tree. The two sections show how narrow it is but Dirk used his finely tuned 0-5-0 measuring device to assure me that all three really would fit even with the third track being slightly elevated as it returns from the mountain loop.

We actually got a few drops of rain and some lightning yesterday so the door latch and temporary roof went on the power station, along with a coat of paint. Monsoons don't officially start until the 22nd or 23rd but we all keep hoping they will be early.



Clouds coming over the Huachuca Mountains may bring us a few more drops tonight. And I just heard some thunder in the distance. All good signs


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

And don't those roses look great!! yep!! 

Alan, only on special occasions do the 0-5-0 tools come out! 

WE did have lots of smoky black clouds last night, saw a bunch of dangerous looking 'lightning' ( fires ), in the afternoon and evening both. Thunder oh my! Rolling thunder - not this time, but rather long bouts of ''traveling thunder'', from here to Tuscon I'm sure... 

More again today, results of 1/2 a tenth on an inch, of much needed wetness!! 

And My road got a good dust kill'n soaking, good for several days !!! the best!!... great to drive on - at last. 

Lookin' forward to another visit soon, I need more block for the wash wall going up!! 

Yep - summer's com'n - again!! Picnic area eh, water lines are heading that way this week...!! 

Take care - Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Really looking nice around the tree and all that space! 

I was in town today, got rain on the way home on Old Spanish Trail by the East half of Sagauro Nat Park to Jeremy Wash and then again at home. Rained enough to puddle and run off. About a half hour ... was still 104 degrees. Came down like a Monsoon.... good news. Earliest I remember. 

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I've been working on the pathway during the early morning before the temps get into the high 80's. This is a hobby after all. I won't finish up this area until the bridge is built and in place so flagstone and rock will be slightly under the lowest step. My wife saw a yard that has flagstones stacked to make steps and that may be what I end up doing for the bottom step if I have enough stone left over after all paths are finished.

Entry into the rose/tree restriction zone 



A couple of pictures from the north side of the site








Pathway to the right will be bridged using Trex positioned about an inch above the top of the wall. 



I'm looking at buying SplitJaw walk-on tracks and will cut channels in the bridge slats so the rails are level as they pass over the bridge. I think Brandon did a thread on the walk-on track a year or so ago but would like to hear from anyone that has used them. Pros and cons appreciated.


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice landscaping job! 

Best, 
TJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks TJ Hobby disguised as landscaping


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So that was just a disguise I saw then, smoke and mirrors - eh!! great job, BTW..!! 

Frankly, I find the landscaping to be a great ''Peace keeper''. 

My landscaping is developing out of the presence of the layout, and the layout is benefiting from the resulting landscaping.. sort of a win-win situ!! 

The wife can more easily relate to the plant life than the layout... so I spend a great deal of time pursuing the landscaping along side the layout construction work.. 

Looks great, more Roses Alan!!! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

When the site was built around the roses and tree one consideration was how to complete the loops that went around it. Since I wasn't going to end everything to the east of the tree that left two options. Buy 3 bridges that could be moved out of the way or bridge the gap and put in permanent track. The checkbook answered those questions so I'm building a deck/bridge to cover the gap. 




Basic framing in place and attaching stair risers. The decking is only 20" above grade but figured at least one side needed a railing for train watchers and those with balance problems when leaving the ground. Railing toward the major portion of the site to accommodate train watchers  Another consideration was how far the stairs would intrude into the pathway around the tree. To make sure it wasn't a major issue the construction started at the tree path and went south to the outer wall.



Did an "eyeball" measurement with the wall to the west of the stairs to line them up and it looks like it will work.
Using TREX 1x6 boards as decking material and will cut it as close to the walls as possible to keep little feet from finding a gap to step into.
Ordered some SplitJaw Walk-on track and will dado the decking so rails are even with the top of the boards and reduce tripping hazards. 

Cloudy here the past 2 days, temps still in the mid to high 90's, and no rain yet :-(


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

nice work so far. how have the temps been? I cant image what 110+ degrees is like out that way. Im going to be in the Phonix area end of winter for my sister-in-laws wedding.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Shawn, there are some nice "G" layouts in the Phoenix area and there are events in late winter. Next February when you are planning a trip. Put out a request for events. I'm out there in February, March and part of April. I try to keep up on local events. Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Alan said ''no rain yet!''.... ugh oh... don't look now, but .... 

Had some here tonight tho!! Ran to town for some errands, and went thru the car wash on the way home, heck, today's special did not include the spot free rinse off.... ha! 

Once home we had thunder and some wetness here, kill the dust and cool it down a might bit!!! Nice evening now!! 

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

cool morning here!! A relaxing break from the heat!! .. yep we got wet, .2'' of it even, for an end of month total of .25'' for June! 

Now we'll see the real stuff begin, it's July.... 

Dirk


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Mountain folk .... I went outside at 4 am and it was in the high 80s, I can't quite call that cool. 
I only got enough rain to move the dust around on my windshield. 
We'll have a month of teasers before the Aug Monsoons hit. 

So sayeth The Grey Geezer!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

dang dupe


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

ya,.. yesterday was overcast, humid and 85, at only 5:30 am,.... 

today awoke to 70, nice and fresh,..so 


Cool...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

This morning down here mon, 85+ at 4am. 
Yesterday as I helped change my sparkplugs it was 105 in the shade. 
90% of my ground squirrels are hibernating underground where it stays 70 degrees. I might join them.... 

John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

It's nearly dark out, 

Alan - look North about 50 miles,... 

 It is blacker than black, with a brown leading edge, covering a very large portion of the - what was blue sky... 

Got windy, 

So - ''weather warning'' ...ahead , heading south...! 

here come the buffeting winds... like JJ talked about, maybe worse still... 

S'pect rain to follow shortly, batten down the hatches man!! 

Every man for themselves...7:55pm real time... 

Dirk - occasional weather reports from Dragoon!! with crakl'nnn sound effects to-boot, thunder and lightnin', brought to You by The AZ for rain station... 

sometimes we do trains 2.... 

storms 1st ... 

not by choice.... 

:- } 

...............


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

interesting rains we are getting here... 

 ''progressive rainfall''... 

started with .2'', then .3'', and last night brought a whoop'n .4'' of rain... 

get any work done this morning Alan? no cloud cover to start the day.... darn 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Happy 4th of July to all.

Yep the monsoons are here. Had about 1/2" of water running through the drainage areas (the red rock that looks like a driveway) a couple of nights ago and puddles on the driveway this AM. Starting to pack down the site and makes it a little easier to work on pathways. Temp's still in the high 70's at 6:AM but topping out around 90 by noon. Drinking lots of water while working on bridge and leveling pathway. And does anyone need some rocks. These were about an inch below the surface when I was working on the area leading into the roses area. One reason a pick is a required tool around here even when ground it wet.




Finished up the bridge and pathway today. The TREX, supported by 2x6's 12" on center, doesn't move much even when hot and it's leveled 5/8 inch above the top of the wall for placement of walk-on track that was shipped out yesterday. 





I got a little carried away blending the decking as close as possible to the wall. I need to find an appropriate warning sign to place to the east side so no one walks off the edge going up the stairs. TREX gets really flexie when more than 8 inches from any support.




I added a third stair riser to the tree end of the bridge to deal with felxie TREX issue next to the wall.



Added a few more pieces of flagstone and several bags of white rock to finish up the path around the tree.



Will put out more roses the next time Dirk is here, but for now they sitting up under the patio overhang.







Again a Happy 4th to all


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Looking like they expect more rain this evening as they are pulling in the Aerostat. The little whit thing in the middle of the pic looks like a blimp but is attached to the ground by a really long cable. The pod underneath has cameras and other stuff watching the U.S. - Mexico border which is on the other side of the mountains.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 01 Jul 2013 10:07 AM 
Mountain folk .... I went outside at 4 am and it was in the high 80s, I can't quite call that cool. 
I only got enough rain to move the dust around on my windshield. 
We'll have a month of teasers before the Aug Monsoons hit. 

So sayeth The Grey Geezer! 

The Grey Geezer is sitting in a Monsoon right now! What does he know????Aw heck The older I get, the less I know!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 05 Jul 2013 03:17 PM 
Posted By Totalwrecker on 01 Jul 2013 10:07 AM 
Mountain folk .... I went outside at 4 am and it was in the high 80s, I can't quite call that cool. 
I only got enough rain to move the dust around on my windshield. 
We'll have a month of teasers before the Aug Monsoons hit. 

So sayeth The Grey Geezer! 

The Grey Geezer is sitting in a Monsoon right now! What does he know????Aw heck The older I get, the less I know!












Weather Report; 2.68" from today's shower....It's going to get real green soon..


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

John 
Hope you still have some roads left there in Vail. I had to drive down to Tucson yesterday around 2 PM and it was raining so hard people were pulling off to the side of I-10. Lucky I only saw one collision on the way and ii didn't look like anyone hurt. Had about 6 to 8 inches of water running over all lanes of I-10 where the old RR bridge and overpass used to be. Noooo fun but we needed the rain. 
The rain did show me where I need to put some backing behind the wall around the tree. Will throw the washed out dirt back into the site and then resettle flagstone and white (now brown) rocks. 

A


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

While discussing track, tunnel and bridge clearances it was suggested that I use a Clearance Checking car. And while there aren't any commercially available I asked where I could find one. The response "Take an old set of trucks, a wooden yard stick and a couple of pieces of wood wider that the widest car you might get and put them together. And you might want to fix something up to make sure tunnel portals and bridges as cleared. Figure 12 inches or so." A set of engineering plans it wasn't but he talked slow and I got the concept. Been awhile since I received that sage advise but here's what I came up with.




Materials: Main frame is 1" square metal tube 36" long, 2' long 1/4 inch threaded rod (2), 3/8 " round metal tube (needed 2"), 1/4" fender washers, nuts and stop bolts, 6" lengths of "L" bracket (3). All materials available at HD, Lowe's, Ace except the trucks.



Stop nut attached on the under side. Had to set the threads flush with the top of the nut so it didn't hit any ties.



Slide the threaded rod through the truck, add spacer, washer, frame (I put mine through the 2nd hole from each end), and 6" "L" brackets centered on the frame and carefully tighten nuts checking to make sure the trucks can rotate freely. When finished the "car" is 39" long knuckle to knuckle.




When all was assembled I measured 14" up from the top of the rail and cut off the threaded rod to check tunnel and bridge heights
Will build two more since there are several places I'll have 3 tracks running side by side.

The "car" makes it easy to see why larger radius curves are the way to go if using longer rolling stock and engines. Those curves are from an Aristo-Craft starter set, 2' radius, I think


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So Happy you had time to play this weekend Alan!! Inexpensive and a easy visual clue as to what is going on when rolling down the track!! LOOKS great 2 btw!! 

Nice train work shop...!! room to move around and work!! 

When do you want me to come over and plant roses with you!! I'll bring .... a shovel!! ha!.. 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the offer of a shovel. I'll be using one to dig around the new "drain areas" along my wall to put in landscaping cloth so the dirt doesn't flow out along with water. Only 4 or 5 small spots so I guess I'm lucky that way. One modification I'll probably make to the clearance car is to cut about a inch and a half off the threaded rods. Still a bit over 12 inches but won't lift my mountain bridge quite as high. Also thinking of minor change to the raised track going behind the tree. May try my hand at building trestles rather than filling in with dirt and rock. Still in "what if" stage.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I bet the dust is settled now!! 

And the wiring is nearly pulled.. 

track ready to go down.. 

But alas, Alan went on Vacation...? 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dust is settled but ...... 
monsoon took advantage of my vacation to grow a small jungle on the site. 
Wire pulling starts later this week once jungle aka weeds are pulled. Weed pulling includes all areas around the house. :-(


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I see I'm a 'mind reader' , well I could try... ha!! 
"Vacation", .... hoping it was enjoyable for you both... 

I thought you were being - 'real quiet' - So you could hear the weeds grow.... 

You have a large enough area to de-weed... 

I hardly even try any more... takes all year anyway... just to start over in July, sort of a ''weed reset feature'', .. 

Welcome back Alan, 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

We actually had 2 days without rain so the weeds got cut or sprayed and I could continue putting in infrastructure. In this case making and pulling wire bundles. I'm using #10 stranded wire with different colored wire for each section (loop) plus 2 additional leads into the Power Station for future expansion.




It isn't an A.T.& T. cable rig but it works. Wooden stakes were measured, hammered in, and marked every 5 feet making it easier to keep lengths sort of uniform. The Power to Site cable was 10 strands of wire. Each pair is taped every 3 1/2 feet with electrical tape matching the loop color, then the pairs were taped together with standard black tape to for the cable. A couple of longer wires were looped back and taped together forming a connection loop for the fishing tape. 






Run the fishing tape through the conduit in the Power Station and out the floor of the junction box inside the site. Tape fishing tape and cable together securely and pull while feeding cable into junction box. It actually worked the first time. 





The cable was 15' long as I estimated the pull would be about 12'. Will pull the extra cable into the Power Station once I've made all the connections running from the junction box.



Reminder to self: Don't forget to cap ALL the conduit leading to junction box. It took about 15 minutes to vacuum the water out, clean out the mud and let things air dry before pulling cable. But first run is in and only 200' to go. Seven 30' lengths, not all at one time. Only supposed to get to mid 80's today so the goal, after I get another reel of black wire, is all wiring for loop 1 and 2 done by the weekend.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I had a problem when water got in the conduit that carries my phone lines to the house. I duct taped my shop vac to the conduit and let it run about a hour and it dried it out completely 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

No duct tape required here. Attached the 5' piece of plastic tubing I use to deep clean the dryer vent to the wet-dry vac. Capped other end of pipe and it sounded like someone sucking the last bit of milkshake out of the bottom of the cup. Muh easier when wires weren't already in place.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

was in Tucson on Friday, again - Dr visit... was by the hobby store - did not see your car this time? mmm.. 

D :- }


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Was building cables  Still thinking about that engine and car we discussed on Monday


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

should I like drop off the C-16 I ran at John's, let You spend some time digesting it...? pretty much what you want ... I think...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

After the wiring went in, it was time for some "off site" infrastructure work. With the rains keeping the ground moist it was much easier to scrape and grade pathways. Especially in the vehicle access areas. Once the path out to the dog run is complete any left over flagstone will find its way onto the train site. Stacked flagstone to create a tunnel entrance might look pretty good.




Phase 2 now completed with pathway running from the patio out to the bridge and around the tree.



Two good reasons NOT to use white rock the entire length. Cost, no such thing as Dirt Cheap when talking about decorative rocks, and it makes the vehicle access area easy to identify. Have made sure that any utilities are buried 18" below grade when crossing the drive.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

You'll be neeed'n to mark where I should walk with My BIG feet!! When I comes over!!!! 

Dirk :-}


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Pathways are done so Dirk doesn't have to walk on the gravel when he visits. Now its time to work on track location and building the ladder system.
Using sectional track as a template I made the outer loop corner with 10' Radius track and added 10' of straight on both ends of the curve.



Moving things around until the track is in position so the test cars have a minimum of 2 inches of clearance along the outer wall. Had to figure in that the blocks at track level are about 1 inch further out than the top block of the wall. Test cars really came in handy with a level on the top block to make sure there is plenty of vertical clearance.



While I don't plan on running any 36" cars one can never be sure what guests might bring. Even with 10' radius curves there is a fair amount of hangover on the inner portion of the curve as shown by the test car. The car width markers at front, center and rear are 6 inches wide, or 3" on center. The vertical clearance screws are cut at 14" above track level so unless a car is really tall tunnel roof height won't be a issue.



After getting the track where I wanted it I measured 9" on center and put in the two PVC risers for the inner loop. My thanks to the person that mentioned using a bulb auger to drill the riser holes rather than just hammer the risers into the ground. Using the gray PVC conduit as risers as they are UV resistant and $1.50 per 10' section cheaper than the white PVC at Lowe's. Risers are driven in 24" - 26" so they are planted in the well packed dirt under 20" of fill dirt that is still compacting. These rally are test risers as I will remeasure the center to center placement once the ladder for the outer loop is in place.



Using the bulb auger to drill the holes it took about 10 minutes to cut the risers from a 10' section of pipe, measure and mark locations, drill the holes, hammer in the risers, and verify vertical is straight up and down.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Why did you build that deck piece by the tree? 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

John 

I was originally going to have 3 bridges crossing over the pathway that connects the lawn / patio area to the roses and sitting area around the tree. After looking at costs and needing to make the bridges portable I decided to build the "people" bridge instead. I have 3 sections of Split-Jaw walk-on track that will cross the bridge to allow trains to run anytime. I'm going to dado the boards so track lays level with the tops and isn't a tripping hazard. Hand rails and balusters will go in later. 

Alan


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

With the cooler mornings I'm managing to get in 3 or 4 hours a day before the pool and AC'd indoors distracts me. I've put in the PVC posts for both inner and outer loops around the northwest corner that will eventually be covered. Being very careful to make sure there is plenty of clearance between tracks and side walls. The pile of rocks for the upper retaining wall / mountain continues to grow and I should have enough for a good start by the time the lower sections of the "mountain loop" ladder system are in place.
Spent several hours over the weekend ripping 10' sections of Trex 1x6



Quickly learned that when cutting plastic wood, AKA Trex, or PVC there is a fair amount of plastic shavings that end up on the ground. Placed a tarp under the table saw and cutting area helped with cleanup. The shavings went into the recycle bin. Cut materials are stacked on the wall providing easy access when building ladder sections. Posts will be squared up before the next section is put in place. 




The lower section of the mountain loop where the grade starts is marked with orange paint. The stake to the left on the picture is the approx. location for the loop to cross over itself. The right stake is the start of the 7' radius curve that will climb along the edge of the cliff up to the top of the plateau. Planned grade is 1% to 1.5%. 



Looking west at the first section of the outer loop ladder. Track centers entering where the tunnel will start are 5" wider apart to allow for offset single openings rather than a double portal. Inner loop narrows thru the tunnel area to the standard separation.



The tunnel entrance will be west of the PVC junction box to allow access to wiring if needed. I had to notch the bottom of the Trex side rails to allow the feeder pipe to be connected to the junction box. One of those minor flaws in the plan. When both loops are done I'll practice some track bending and run the clearance cars through before placing the concrete block of the inner wall of the tunnel.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

You sure are doing some really nice work Alan. 
I love all the masonry, and your test cars are very clever. 

===>Cliffy


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yep, the seasons are shifting here! That's cool. 

Better to work in....progress keeps moving along for you Alan!! Great!! Dual portals works well, an old one and a newer style, together. What I'll be doing here on the mainline tunnel. 
Got in 3 1/2 hours of weed wacker ops cutting down the jungle here. Pretty tired this afternoon. And I've been doing some work bench projects also. Stretching a container out to 53'. And reworking a set of SD40-2 sideframes. More detail, and removal of unwanted items that are not on a real frame, plus general de-buring. 

Looks like we could have a productive winter this year in AZ... 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

A few more hours on the ladder system to get it around the corner. Discovering that leveling the runners (side to side) is time consuming but from everything I read, starting with a level support system is critical.





Looks like I managed to get the radius pretty close and only a little bit of tweaking should be required to center the track. The curve was actually a bit larger than 10'R in a few spots




Hope to finish the entire west end before daughter's wedding in 10 days but who knows.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Looks great. And sounds like an opportunity Alan. Here's the script:


Alan: "You know [Future Son-In-Law's name], in the old days, your dad would have paid me a hefty dowry, but thankfully we're past that, aren't we? Ha ha!

FSIL: "Um, yes Sir."

Alan: "Still, you know, honor isn't quite dead in these here United States, isn't that right Son?"

FSIL: "Um, yes Sir. I mean no, Sir." 


Alan: "So I was thinking, instead of bothering your dad, there's something that..."


["pregnant" pause]

FSIL: "...Uh, Sir?"

Alan: "Well, [FSIL], have you ever heard of [whispered]_ ladder roadbed_?"

=======

You can take it from there, I think.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Cliff..figured it out.. You way toooo much time on your hands... 
May ideas never stop. And always blosome. 

Alan..I assume you are running the inner runner complete first fully level as needed. Then going back and adding the outer runner. Leveling to the inner as you work your way along... 

Cancel the wedding ...toys 1st!!!!!!!!! 
Not... OK 

Dirk 
Looks great ... I'll bring a train soon to run.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

C'mon Dirk, I worked hard on that! 

And for the record, I got home from work today, finally finished power-washing the deck (prior to staining, ugh), and am now recuperating. At the expense of others.









===>Cliffy


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

That part about the expense of others.. got me! 

Was that an admission, Cliff..ha 

You've been knocking these out like a song writer!!! 

Sorry, had to bling ya!! all in good fun, eh!! wanna meet @Marty's in 2014...??? 

K...station break is over Alan....THx you coming next year Alan? 

Dirk


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Yeah, I'm thinking about going to Marty's, at least a lot more seriously than before. 
Especially since I started that thread about 2014... sort of a joke that backfired, seems I've gotta go now, ha ha!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Cliff, back fires aren't all BAD... 

Show up and play trains!! 

I read I have reservations - some where on another thread here, !! wow - 

See ya there!! ....C'mon Alan!!? 

Dirk


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Well, like I said, I'm seriously thinking about it now... Have to trade a different trip for it probably, we'll see. 

Alan, sorry for the side track. 
I'm seriously jealous of all the nice flat open area you have! 
More importantly, you're designing something truly beautiful in that space. Great work! 

Cliff


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliff 
Good idea about using FSIL as a Go-Fer. Problem is that he is home just long enough for the wedding and a week or so then back to Afghanistan where he works on the UAV's. He's my contact to try and work out a camera-test flight over Dirk's layout someday. 
Did manage to get outer loop around the southwest corner this morning. I'm leveling the outer stringer of Trex with the top course of block then leveling the inner stringer as I screw it into the PVC posts and spacers. Figured out that a 10' piece of PVC "Brick Molding" from Lowe's provides enough spacers for 40' of ladder. 
Nice flat space being filled with loads of dirt and rock walls to make it not-so-flat at least at the west end.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Alan, 

All my sincerest best wishes for him and your daughter. 

Cliff


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Cooler mornings.....yes we are now starting a great weather months....Days may be shorter but they are nice to work in. 

JJ


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey Alan. I second Cliffs sentiments for your family...!!! 

And hope for an enjoyable wedding day ahead... 

Btw. Getting any work done in the back yard!? 
... Your lucky..I don't have a back yard here..... 

Dirk.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks to all for the best wishes for Daughter and Son-in-Law. Spent a couple more hours on the site this AM and got almost all the way around the southwest corner with the outer loop. 




The PVC post to the right of the Trex stringer is the last "curved" spot before track straightens out until getting to the Personnel Bridge. When the next section is in I'll switch over to working on the inner loop. Some of the posts for that loop are already in place.





The offset between the inner and out stringers is easy to see in this picture. Don't want to have sections joiners directly across from each other as I figure that would create a weak spot.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk. Got the text about the C-130's working on touch and goes at Libby. I think they are with a National Guard unit out of Kansas. They are fun to watch but not as much fun when sitting on a nylon bench in full gear.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hi Alan, 

They were amazing to see! Never have I seen a group of 130's flown in a tight nit formation. Looked more like a fighter gathering. Got to watch them cross the threshold right before us! Over the runway they did a carrier break-away, separating for a high bank angle turn to set-up for landing. 

While I have seen many aircraft while in the service, at airshows, and everday life, this was a first to see 4 of them so close together!!! 

I'm sure sitting on a hard surface while the pilot pulls a high bank turn can be a real load!! 

Dirk. My spelling is better when I'm not bounching in a car - ha .. wife was driving for a change....


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Shhhhhhh, don't want to disturb Alan. 
He must be having a fun time at the wedding party!!! 

He may need to be Re-Trained to go back to work on his layout.... 

Have fun Alan!! 

Everyone from MLS, me 2


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

? Mmmm...well I'm sorry to report Alan has gotten lost at the wedding party!!!! 

Looks like a search & rescue Party needs to replace the wedding party.... 

I'll see what I can drum up ..tomorrow I'm headed in that direction... 

Take care buddy! 

Dirk


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

That's quite the project you have going there!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Many thanks to all .... The wedding went great and only 30 minutes late. Didn't get lost at the wedding or during the reception but took time to do the RV thing and visit family up in Medford, Or. then back down through Redding and San Jose before heading home. Turns out I missed a garden RR event in Medford by a week. The Railroad Park (really its name) located near I-10 at exit 30 held an open house on the 5th and 6th and I arrived on the 15th. :-( Family said they had all sorts of different scales including trains large enough to ride on. From description of the size the track wasn't as large as the trains found at amusement parks. Will have to plan better for the next trip up there. 

Discovered that 30' of track I had purchased back in April got delivered to my former home in Campbell somehow. Thought I'd gotten it but hadn't matched it with on-line invoice. Found empty space under the RV to bring it back to AZ and hope it will be in place before the end of the year. Starting back to "work" on the site tomorrow after recovering from loooong drive.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Daughter married off, face time with other family members in Oregon and California, RV unloaded, including 30 of feet of track delivered to old address in Calif. so it's back to work on my "hobby". Also known as habit, or obsession as stated in the Warning to Newbie thread in Beginners Forum. Working on the inner loop as it goes around the Northwest corner of the site. 




Looking west into the curve / to-be-tunnel. Dirt replaced around the ladder system and watered down to help compact the dirt



Southwest corner with blocks back in place to begin the outer edge of the tunnel. Once track is in place and tested another 40 or 50 blocks will be added to run between the two junction boxes. No junctions will be enclosed by the tunnel.



Looking north from the main wiring box and first junction box. So far both ladders are level with the top wall blocks. Total of 30' in place and back filled today. Only 40' left to finish the west end so I can start to build the retaining wall for the elevated portion of the site. Some re-figuring will be needed after Dirk suggested running the upper track over the lower loops before it crosses the bridge leading to the down grade around the east end of the site.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ideas..ideas...so much to think about here...!! 

Glad to be a sounding board... 

Yep guys ...Alan is starting to have fun!!!!!! 

Looks great 2 BTW!!! 

DIRK


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Looks great Alan! 

I'll bet it was fun putting the dirt around the ladder, kinda like icing the big cake, right? 

===>Cliffy


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy

You're right about that, while no track on the ladder yet it does give a more normal feel to the site. And as luck would have it we got some rain on Sat. night then again on Sunday to help pack things down. The fill dirt in the site is sort of sandy when it's dry so it went around the ladder system and filled the post fairly easily. Now that it has been rained on it should harden up nicely. 

Alan


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ya ....me 2.. 

A big whopper dropper... 

1/40th of an inch.....wooooo! 

But it came during the night.. 

Did not dry out or blow away!!!! 

Ha hardy har!.. 

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ya, I'm roooting for more normal feelings two.... 

Assurance that it will be what it should be!! 

D


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I want Alan's retaining wall blocks...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Check yer local Home Disapointment....


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Or tow a trailer from Maryland to AZ.... 

he he 

D


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I like Dirk's idea better...


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Cliffy...load the trailer with the V&T... bring it with you.. 
You get a flat once here, 
And set up shop in AZ. 
Then we all get together and run trains... 

A Fairy tale!!!! 

D


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

John was right on with Home Depot comment tri0color sierra I think

I agree with Dirk And he has plenty of room to set up the V&T at his place. 

Alan

PS IN Tucson getting RV worked on but back to work on the site tomorrow


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

The NEW and Improved V&T RR, built to prototype track configuration, a scale model with real Scale Sized curves and switches!! 

even got a spot for it....!!!!! 

Start loading Cliffy!! 

Dirk...


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 06 Nov 2013 07:02 AM 
Cliffy...load the trailer with the V&T... bring it with you.. 
You get a flat once here, 
And set up shop in AZ. 
Then we all get together and run trains... 

A Fairy tale!!!! 

D A Fairy tale!!!! .............um......

Maybe not!







 This is how the "Over The Hill Gang" aka Train Mountain started in Oregon.







 Became one of the largest privately owned 7 1/2" gauge railroads in the world. 
You guys might become the largest "G" layout on the planet. Sounds like a great place for the "Battery Mafia" to hang out!








 
I was also able to find your place on Google Earth. Nice.







 Plenty of room to lay some 7 1/2" track............


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Gary.... 7 1/2" track could work here... 

But I tend to "wonder" about the reality ..... of grades ... 

This is not flat ground!!!! 

Dirk - still tho open for ideas....!


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 07 Nov 2013 12:47 PM 
Gary.... 7 1/2" track could work here... 

But I tend to "wonder" about the reality ..... of grades ... 

This is not flat ground!!!! 

Dirk - still tho open for ideas....! The reality of grades would be a perfect setting for 2 1/2" scale narrow gauge desert/mountain railroading! Here's a link to my buddy's railroad in the desert/mountains of Southern California (near Pearblossum/Little Rock). Quarter scale (3 inches per foot-9 inch gauge NG). Mesa Grande Western RR. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bniJFAOmg

Your grades can't be as bad as these!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

That was lots of FUN Gary!! 
WOW... that was Awesome,, and they are huge. 

.... Marty needs to add some water and fertilizer to his new trains... !! 

Ya, time and money - something could be worked out even if just a 'point to point' run was built!! 

Thanks for the ride!! 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Awesome ride. Maybe time to arrange a road trip.

A few more pic's as the outer loops make it around the southeast corner so about 60' of 200' is in place.



West end connected past the main wiring box from the power station



Around the southwest corner leading to the south edge of loops.



Looking west into corner. Junction box is 30' from the main box and almost directly across from current end of ladder along the north wall.



Put in the rocks that make up the bottom course of the rock wall for the raised area where loop 3 goes. The south corner will be open while the north corner will be "tunneled".


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Beautiful work Alan!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Still admiring the blocks from afar CliffY...are ya!! 

Keep at it Alan....!!! Next you'll be showing us track in a tunnel.... 

Be ready next March/April?? 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks Cliffy and Dirk 

This coming week I plan to call the landscape guy and have him bring in a few more tons of dirt to build up the raised area so I'm leaving the south side open for access. Have some trimming to do on the north side but the plan is to have at least the two outer loops ready by March/April. Bought a bunch of rail clamps from Split-Jaw including power attachments so once new dirt is in place I'll add track. Next big purchase is 4 #6 switches for the cross over section along the north side of loop 1 and 2. Now planning on 2 tunnels after Dirk made a suggestion about having one on the south side as well as over northwest corner. Have a fair number of chunks of flagstone left over from pathways so may build the tunnel with that. Still in mental design phase. 

Alan


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Need an extra shovel for those few extra tons of dirt coming in on the south side..???? 

Your Neighbor, up North !!!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk 

Will let you know once the dirt is scheduled for delivery. 

Alan


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

And perhaps another supervisor? I'll get my shovel's kickstand repaired ... was leaning too heavy last job. 

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

All help, to include Supervision, is greatly appreciated. Will pass on when dirt will arrive as soon as I hear back from the Landscape guy. Do want to put in risers to mark start and end of curves before then.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Oh great....we are on the same page!!!!! 

Ya. I was out ...mmm, working on this guys layout today .... minding my own business.... thinking Alan should try to get some risers for the high road put in...1st!!!!! 
Particularly across the rear area..farthest from the dirt entrance. It will be easier to install risers with a clear field. 
It will be easier to place dirt to a known height . 

I can come any day this week . 
Next Tuesday ... darn - jury calls my duty..... 

Dirk ...- .. if tomorrow just call me!!!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Good suggestions about risers caused the dirt delivery to be put on hold. I found where some the HARD dirt went when it was dumped into the site. Going to have to use the dig, add water, dig add water, dig, etc etc method for several sections. 
4' steel fence posts mark the center of the various curves to make it easier to reestablish them after new dirt goes in. And risers" over 18" high after being put in place, at the start / end point of the curves. Moved rocks around to get an idea of what raised area will look like and as usual modifications to "the plan" are required.




Looking northeast across to-be elevated space. Markers are in place and part of the interior retaining wall went in along northwest corner






Northwest corner with both retaining walls to required height. Exterior wall for the tunnel will be 3' above original yard level. Top of interior wall is 15" above track level.



No track yet but tunnel is beginning to take shape. Plywood cover is not part of final construction. 



Inner wall is 7" from edge of inner ladder and outer wall is 5" from the outer ladder so larger cars and engines should be able to clear in either direction.



Weather was great for work. At least until the wind started kicking up. Dark clouds but no rain. More inner retaining wall going in over the next couple of days.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm so sorry for my thoughts Alan... 

:-(


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I love that shot thru the tunnel area. Very classy.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk, Your thoughts were right on target. As discussed yesterday it is much easier to put in infrastructure BEFORE the dirt goes in. Still have to get Marty (Landscaper) over to check on what he can do and how far his equipment can reach into the site to dump dirt.
Cliffy, it is starting to come together and looks like trains with even the largest cars will be able to pass inside.

After the photo-op the other day the blocks of the tunnel inner wall reverted to their more permanent location as the first course of block. It took 45 3 x 8 inch blocks to make 1/4 of a 16' diameter circle. So doing the math (45 x 4 more courses ) means I need about 180 more blocks (These are coming from Lowe's)




Elevated risers in place around the northwest corner. Had to run down to Ace to buy another bulb auger as the first is showing a lot of wear from hitting the small rocks under the RoW as riser holes were done. Still need to use the "water, drill, water, drill" method in some areas. Thinking of getting another 20' or so of that yellow plastic chain as it comes in handy measuring around curves and gives an idea of what track will look like.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

ALAN.....glad it is working out for ya! 

Hoped you would not be creat'n more work for yourself... 
Want ya to enjoy the journey to trainland!!!! 

It will be so worth it once running begins.. that first train leaves the station! 

Stretching out the tunnels legs are ya..cool 

Did you figure yet if the inner curve next to the tunnel will clear the top.. 
I'm guessing it won't and has to run inside during its climb upwards, to the second level... 

Looking like a layout more & more.. 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk,
Looking at a 1.5% grade with about 6' of 1% lead in. Track level should be about 4" above grade at the center of the tunnel and continue to rise around the west end and into the "canyon" where the mine is going to go. If I figured things correctly it will take about 90' of track to lift 16". Looking for a level 16"at the south loop before going over the bridge to the down grade going around the tree.
Possible landscaping would have the loop going through a short tunnel then a long cut as it goes around the south end and into canyon. Track accessing the mine would have a short tunnel near the south edge of the site to create that train-over-tunnel idea then through the canyon to the mine.

Alan


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ah....... 
....."The Hole in the Wall Mine".... 

Fun... 

D


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Her' ya go Cliffy.. you need to build a traveling mine train and come to AZ... 


Me toooooooo I guess!! 

D


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk, 

Thanks for the math check, especially since you got to almost 17" while I was still at 16".  With your information in mind I went out and measured the elevation loop in 15' segments and found that I had a lot more level area on top of the "mesa" than I expected. This "extra space" resulted in the idea that I can have a 10' diameter loop, plus a bit, inside the Hole-in-the-Wall coming off the inner main line.




Orange stake to the left is the start of the grade. The pink stake in mid photo is the 100' point. Pink marks on ground are 15' apart so with a bit of math I can figure out approx track height at each spot.



100' marker with plastic chain in place of track . Pink spot on the left edge is at 105' so plenty of height to go over one leg of track into / out of the Hole-in-the-Wall. 

Like a battle plan, a track plan only lasts until contact with reality.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk, Cliffy 

Traveling Mine Trains will be taking a "tight detour" to Bazemore Mine via the Hole-in-the-Wall. I'll try to keep it wide enough not to scrape your paint.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

What fun... 
What a treat... 
You were posting while I was in town!! 
I could FEEL the force... 
needed a few things here... 

That tight hole in the wall.... how bout a it.can.bend.in.the.middle 2-4-4-2 'n tender..a small light affair with some ore cars...maybe old wood gons? 

Think it could be squeeeeeZed thru that rock hole...? 

I practice my grade math .... everyday!! 

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Mmmmm.. 
What are the itsy bitsy tiny mine curves planned to be? 

Inquiring minds and stuff...! 

Or do I need to run a Porter....? 

D


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Not that tiny actually. Looking at 10' diameter inside the "canyon" and probably #6 switches (Doesn't someone make a 5' radius switch?) off the main line from both sides of "The Hole". Vision has it something like an "Omega". Clear from the west side but tunneling in from the east. Time to research a bit. Like the information in another post the in and out tracks can be pretty close together since only one train at a time will be using it. Right now the "I wonder what it will look like" canyon is 18" wide and I can make it a bit wider.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

5 ft radius.. 

Mmmm me thinks a no.5 switch fills the bill. 

What I used to modify my early power trucks to...but they were custom made...the switches ... 

Looking forward to your continued progress Alan!!!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Alan, 
Aristo made a 10' WR (wide radius with 10'D notation!) even with Dirk's math I get 5'r 

It was a sectional track switch, it fit the geometry of toy track. #'d switches are prototypical, the numbers denote how many feet it takes to diverge 1 foot. 
You saw Aristo switches on my sectional track layout. 

I like your progress. 

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I guess I"ll be fishing in E-bay for 2 switches


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

What do you reccomend fer bait? 

Switch bait that is..... 

I say build that thar upper line... 
...to the mine.... 
('Cept where the dirt drop is ) 
Then we'll shovel a mountain or two... 
And get back on the mains... 
Most risers...both runners...than I'll grab a shovel and come by.. 
Less' n ya want some company sooooooner. 

I'm staying busy here...doing this an that! 

....Dirk


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Sure is one mighty fine looking RR your building. Can't wait to see it up and running. Later RJD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks RJD. It's actually starting to look like where a RR might be. 
Dirk, put in flagstone pieces over the the power station today rather than work on track. Once the elevation loop is in I can figure out where the Hole-in-the-Wall track will go. Since that is at ground level I'll make sure we have clearance to put in retaining rocks to pile dirt behind and still put in 10' curves. Looking like that Omega pattern can be modified a bit and still leave plenty of room up top for mountains and some "human" scenery. As always a work in progress. 
Alan


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Maybe I read this incorrectly... 

Over the power station...didn't it have a lift up lid? 

D ...puzzled am I? !!!!!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk 

Yes the Power Station does have a flip-top for easy access. Still waiting for metal roof to be fabricated (A favor so no time lime) and interior hasp put in place to keep it from opening when the winds get gusty (again). 

Thanks for the transition pic. Guess the best way is to use a short straight edge and slide it along to find any kinks. 

A minor change in the elevation loop. In order to make it fit better the 180 turn along the southeast leg leading to the the bridge will be 10' diameter rather than 12'.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Did a re-read and saw what Dirk caught regarding flagstone and Power Station..... Should have read "Put in flagstone pieces for pathway leading to the Power Station.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Good thing the easy open lid won't be getting any heavier, with addition of flagstone!! 

Boy..the stuff that can be dreamed up from a typo.... 

D


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

As construction has continued, lots of suggestions and help figuring things out to avoid some of the pitfalls other members have encountered have been taken into account. Add in several really cool "Have you thought about putting in ........." and those have resulted in a modified track plan. 

It is difficult to show elevations with the software (or most likely I haven't figured out how to do it yet). I added in a bridge (about mid-site) to show where the elevated loop passes over itself before the grade leading around the tree. The Hole-In-The-Wall loop (Thanks Dirk) to the mine is at ground level with the elevated loop climbing from ground level to about 18" around it, Access to the mine from the east side will be through Tunnel #2 and from the west through the "Hole"



Thanks again for all the suggestions, hints, "What if ....... " and encouragement.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

You seem to be have'n Fun Alan... that's what a hobby is for!! 

What cha been doing ..indoors? 

Dreaming!!!!! 

R ya running trains yet? In your head... lots a fun!!! 

I daydreamed one night ..it took hours to make up a hundred car train and run it around the place here!! 

Kept my mind busy... 
Saw all the scenery in place!! 
Checked the flow of track work.... 
Then back around and broke up the long train in the yard..... 

Then I woke up... 
Just a dream!!!!! 

D


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk,

Using the hydraulic digging technique to dig some of my riser holes. Understood why the auger wasn't working when I uncovered several good sized rocks about 3 inches below the surface. Putting the elevation loop together using high tech level with % grade feature and attached laser *worth every penny* and double checking with tape measure. 20' sloping from level to at 1% then 10' at 1.5%. transition areas are almost building themselves. Cheating a bit using the laser and stacking block on the outer wall to mark "above ground" measurements on the risers for the top of the ladder system. It isn't weird if it works. Will remove 0 to 1% section (only using outer strip of ladder there) when dirt needs to be added and moved.
Was in sweatshirt all day but it got done.

Cool dream by the way.

Alan


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Progress sometimes is driven by desire....not weather!! 

Works for me, 'cept the cold wind blows me over and wears me out.. 
When it becomes hard to walk a straight line..its time to get inside!! 

A bit surprised your dirt fill has rocks like you describe, large enough to interfere with the work of digging holes... 

That's my problem here.. never know what is below the surface...sometimes a simple hole gets blown out of size by rocks!! 

Keep at it..we'll get there..ha! 

Dirk


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 09 Dec 2013 07:58 AM 
Progress sometimes is driven by desire....not weather!! 

Works for me, 'cept the cold wind blows me over and wears me out.. 
When it becomes hard to walk a straight line..its time to get inside!! 

A bit surprised your dirt fill has rocks like you describe, large enough to interfere with the work of digging holes... 

That's my problem here.. never know what is below the surface...sometimes a simple hole gets blown out of size by rocks!! 

Keep at it..we'll get there..ha! 

Dirk 



I have that same problem. I can not dive a stake in the ground 6 inches with out hitting something. Laying some of my road bed the trench got blown out of proportion because of rocks. 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

A clue that there is something hard under a little bit of dirt is when the pick bounces.
Road trip from Calif. with items left behind when we moved, paid off for trains as well. Scored concrete blocks and brick that will make part of the retaining walls for the elevation loop.

Hope to get back to building the loop now that road trip and family visits are done.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I'll come out a my corner..... 

Wecome back Alan!! 

Sometimes my pick bounces from just hitting .....the soil...no rock!!! 
What's that mean....? 

Ya...we need to get to work... darn cool winds... 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Waited until the rain and snow passed through over the past couple of days and softened up the ground a little to get back to work on elevated loop. Still found more rocks but they seemed to be easier to get out. I used the laser level to locate ground zero (GZ), level with the top of the wall,for the start of the loop. Technology can be very helpful.




Planning on putting a switch where stake is to connect the elevated loop to the inner loop that follows the wall. This gives about 2 feet of level area after the switch before the track begins 0.5 to 1.0% grade into the first turn.



The grade transitions from 1.0 to 1.5% through the turn. 1.5% grade the rest of the way to the top of the plateau.



The mid point of the northwest corner is 5" above GZ. The two outer loops will be traveling through Tunnel #1, the longest of the 3 currently planned, and the elevation loop will be going through a narrow canyon or cut along the edge of the plateau.



The mid point. of the grade, 8" above GZ, is next to the large rocks next to the concrete blocks that will be the inner wall of tunnel #1.



GZ level shot showing 2 outer loops and the midpoint of the grade. The midpoint riser doesn't have a stake coming out of the top, but what looks like a stack is a post hole digger stuck into the pile of dirt near the start of the loop. No intent to get artsy and didn't see it until I posted the photo here 

Not sure if I'll post again before Wednesday so Best Wishes to all for a wonderful holiday season and Happy New Year.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Geezz... where did the sun come from..? 
Looks like you and JJ both enjoyed working on your layouts today... 

We hid indoors all day..... 

.....gloomy..smoky ....dark gray all day.. rain on and off ...here.. 

Looks good to...I can see mine trains climbing to the Hole in the Wall canyon already!! 

and.. Merry Christmas to everyone also.. 

Dirk


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 21 Dec 2013 05:59 PM 
Geezz... where did the sun come from..? 
Looks like you and JJ both enjoyed working on your layouts today... 

We hid indoors all day..... 

.....gloomy..smoky ....dark gray all day.. rain on and off ...here.. 

Looks good to...I can see mine trains climbing to the Hole in the Wall canyon already!! 

and.. Merry Christmas to everyone also.. 

Dirk 

Today started off Gloomy Gray and Cold. I started to sir on the couch with a electric blanket over me and read a book but I was lucky and the sun came out. 

So I went out an worked on the Car Barns which I hope to have in place by or just after New Years. 

Your layout looking good.

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Merry Christmas to all from Alan and PJoe.
Santa was good and dropped off 3 new switches and several gift cards to Lowe's and H.D.. Hope everyone had a good holiday and will have a good new year.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

With the elevation loop about half constructed, and almost ready to add dirt, it was time to see if the plan was working out. This was helped when I discovered that a box of track I thought was 10' diameter was really 12' diameter, the same as most of the curves in the loop.




When my wife came out to look she asked how I was going to get the trains around the pole sticking up in the middle of the ladder. Answer: "I got this nifty vibrating saw for Christmas which is perfect for leveling posts to ladder tops." 

With trains in place there is the feeling that the plan may actually come together someday.



Three courses of the small retaining wall block will form the inside wall of Tunnel #1 and the inner wall of the "cut" as it climbs from level to the top of the plateau.



The post on the right side of the picture marks the 15 inch level of the loop once the wider "pipe joint" has been cut off . With everything in place, one of the inspectors came to take a closer look.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Lookin' great Alan! 

Are you planning on using sectional throughout? 

Cliff


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Is the Inspector's name Max? 

Someone Else's dog wants to get in the pictures 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy - Using sectional track when possible, especially for curves. Flex track and dual rail bender will get a good work out on the non-standard curves of the middle loop, and other places where sectional doesn't fit. 

John J - The inspector was "Lady" (Heeler - Great Pyrenees mix). Very friendly and really likes Dirk.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Really looking good!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Posted By fyrekop on 28 Dec 2013 08:03 AM 
Cliffy - Using sectional track when possible, especially for curves. Flex track and dual rail bender will get a good work out on the non-standard curves of the middle loop, and other places where sectional doesn't fit. 

Cool. 
I'll hazard a guess though, and suggest that you're going to fall in love with the flex, the more you use it.
And you probably already know this, but the brass flex from Train Li looks a lot like LGB sectional. 
Main thing, have fun! 
Cliff


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Still having "FUN" as the ladder system grows and climbs. So glad I bought that level that has "% of grade" as an option. Has the Marty, the Landscape Guy" over to figure out how much dirt is needed to fill in the elevated areas. He was thinking 5 or 6 truck loads before we started but that dropped to 1 or 2 by the time we walked the perimeter. 




Elevation ladder about 3/4 completed. The opening is so the skip-loader can access the area along the south west corner to drop dirt rather than move it one shovel full at a time. Still plenty of shovel time needed to back-fill the retaining wall after "the Pile" is in place.



Between the track in the foreground and the PVC pipe with the pink paint will be filled 16 - 18 inches high and retaining wall put in place to form the east side of the plateau.



Southwest corner looking north over the 1.5% grade



Paint marks the 5' R curve where the elevated portion will pass over the tunnel of the east entrance to the Hole-In-The-Wall. The green metal stake indicates the beginning of the downgrade E/B



The 3/4 inch conduit from the power station cuts across the center of the site, passing under the loop and entrance to the mine area. The end of the pipe shows where the conduit will pass under the beginning of the elevation loop. The pink paint on the PVC riser and at various locations on the ladder indicate where junction boxes and feeder wires from main power cables are located. I have a copy of the track plan with all the electrical connections marked on it. Each measured from 3 known/permanent spots.

And still having fun.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Still have'n FUN!!!!!!! 
....Me 2!! 

YA...way to go Alan. 

I'll be in town once or twice this week.... 

What's ya doing? 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Back to work on Tuesday but other than that nothing planned. Saw the pic's you posted, you've been busy hope the cat helped with the digging.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Cats come around for attention... 

I'll call in morning.... 

Got to pick up a lot this week... 

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Winter is a good time to work outside. With 2/3 of the elevation loop in place it's time for "More Dirt" which means retaining walls to keep said dirt in its proper place. Four walls required in some areas but only two in others as the loop climbs from "the flats" up to the plateau. 



Facing west along the north edge of the site. Eventually the 3 tracks to the right enter tunnels as the upper level of the loop continues to the south. 



Two sets of block needed along the north side to separate the lower part of the loop climbing from "the flats", the track that travels along the top of the plateau, and the to-be shear walls enclosing the mine loop, the Bazemore Mine and its associated equipment and buildings. The plastic chain and orange paint mark where the mine track, 10' diameter, will go once the first loads of dirt are in place.



About 15 or 20 blocks need to be put in place to fully enclose the mine area. Viewing access to the mine area to be designed once dirt and track are in place. Second 16' section of ladder system coming off east bound main line ready to be put in place and screwed to posts.



Entrance to the Hole-In-The-Wall from east bound main. A couple of the rocks at the entrance required what the military referred to as "A two man lift", but it will be worth the effort once trains are running. The south-most edge of the plateau may create another tunnel for the main lines or end as a shear cliff next to them. Not sure yet as the site is very much is a work in progress.



Realized I needed to put part of the mine loop ladder system in place to determine where retaining blocks would go. The track will have about a 1% upwards grade form the main line in order to pass over electrical conduit passing under the tracks. Not a bad thing as I discovered the area where the mine will go is about 2 inches above the top of the outer walls (my ground level standard). Much easier to elevate track than dig out packed dirt.



Two sections of 10' diameter track were used to mark where track is going since I'm using sectional and flex track together. Gives a nice smooth curve in to the mine and still provides room for retaining blocks and, eventually, the concrete mountain walls of the plateau.
Never thought Tons of Fun meant moving a lot of dirt and rocks.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Lotsa beautiful progress, Alan!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

While a "Two-Man lift" may work in the Military,,, 

In our hobby it usually boils down to the single sky hook method... 

And it works because.. 

Of the "Double D" method......Driven by.... 





......... "A Dream & a Desire"...... 


......looks great Alan!!!!! 


Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Put in retaining walls around half of the mine area and used that to measure and place part of the mine loop ladder system. Made sure there was clearance before putting dirt in place. Did the same with the Hole-in-the-Wall canyon where east bound and west bound tracks are together before entering the mine. First dump truck load of dirt was dropped in and then the fun began.
How to get the skip-loader over the outer wall to place the dirt where needed? Build a dirt ramp, of course. Eventually the ramp will become the last loads dropped into the southeast end of the plateau.



It took several trips up and back, and some water to pack the dirt ramp into place. But it worked.



And so the fill began. Crew of 3, skip-loader driver, and two grunts with shovels moving dirt from the dump site to where it was needed. Dirt spreading started after 2nd load was dumped.



It took about 2 hours to get the dirt from outside to inside the site and shoveled to where it will eventually go. A quick "leveling" with a street broom to uncover the track ladder then apply water to start compaction action. With dirt in place it's easier to see where trains will be running.

Southeast side at entrance to the Hole-in-the-Wall. More rocks coming in later for the canton walls. eastbound section of mine loop in view along the left side of photo.



Southwest corner showing the outer mains and the elevation loop climbing to the plateau. The blocks in the right rear will form the east wall of the Hole in Wall canyon.



Looking east from the power station. The tunnel around the northwest corner will end near where the retaining wall bricks and rock meet along the elevation loop.



Looking south over the northwest corner and mine area. Skip-loader has done a great job of creating dust bowl from the ramp into the mine.



West into the mine area. The wall in the foreground is the east edge of the plateau. Loose block will be put in place as the east wall of the mine area. East end of the tunnel will be located where the plateau edge begins to turn south.



More dirt coming in tomorrow to top off the west side and fill the the east side of the plateau, as soon as I get the retaining blocks in place. Now it's time to take a long soak in the tub.

A added bonus to the project: Both guys working on the dirt today are talking about getting involved in the hobby.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

More pictures of the Red dirt!! 

Just add track & trains now!!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

2nd load of Red Dirt dropped off but it wont be going onto the site until Friday. Skip-loader and crew working on larger projects for next couple of days but that gives me time to put in retaining wall along east side of mine and finish mine loop ladder system. Dirt level dropped about an inch over night and it was wet down again. Have seen some landscaping opportunities where dirt seeped between retaining blocks so I'm collecting small rocks and creating rock slides as well as filling the gaps.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Swee-heet! 
Alan, you're gonna be the envy of the neighborhood!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If you seepage between rocks becomes too much of a problem to to Home Depot and get a mortar bag. Looks like what the wife uses to decorate a cake only heftier. 


Mix some mortar and use the bag to fill in the cracks then while the cement is still wet add some rocks to it. I try to collect small rocks that are more jagged then smooth as it looks more like a slide. .

The original hole in the bag may be too small so You may have to cut it to get a bigger bead. I have three or so bags with different size holes 

JJ


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

OT/NT...But Alan probably won't mind much.. 

Today was low-level flying in a Blackhawk day...this after noon I heard some thumpers. ..but soon realized they were coming right out of the mountains..wooooowo. 2 B.hawks flew thru the Dragoon mnts taking a short cut and flying right out of Jordan canyon on the north end, crossing the tracks and generally heading towards me..going on around some more hills heading to Tucson.... 
Pretty exciting stuff... 
But just now in total darkness, I was outside when I hear thumpers again. Only this time coming at ME from the west.. all I see are a couple flashing lights, 2 more B.hawks again .. ( the same ones ? ) flying real low..with green eyes for night flying I'm hoping here....fly right over my place. And cross the tracks. The second chopper flew right above me!!!! Only 100ft above me...ya 100 ft.. 
It chased the other across to the mountains again. And back up and thru Jordan canyon they disappeared in the night... 

Freaking L O W ....I tell you!!!!!! 

Dirk


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

How's that back holding up ALAN?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Back still working and not complaining too badly. It hopes I can go back to putting in ladder system after tomorrow. 

2nd load of dirt waiting to be moved onto site. The dogs won't be happy when the dirt is moved as they thought the pile of soft dirt and ramp onto the site was for them. At the end of the pile there is a freshly dug hole that the lab. has been using as a place to take naps.



Looking north into the site from the ramp area showing gap in retaining block for the skip-loader



The PLAN is for the elevated track, 16" above ground level (GL), to begin the downgrade as it enters the 10' diameter curve at the south end of the plateau before crossing the bridge over the track at the start of the upgrade. Bottom of bridge to top of GL track about 13". Trying to keep the grade as close to 1.5% as possible after it leaves the plateau and winds around the tree and roses to the walkway crossing. The top of the retaining block next to GL riser and trex runner is 13"



Walls in place waiting for more dirt. Several of the holes drilled for riser posts can be seem along the wall around the mine area. Have to go to Ace and by another bulb auger as #4 has joined the pile of augers that gave their all. PVC posts have been cut and will be in place before dirt goes in.



Mine loop remeasured after first load of dirt in in place. The chain is staked at the point the loop turns south to exit the mine area.



Chain has been flipped and set in place to mark track placement entering Hole-in-Wall canyon. About 24 inches from track to retaining wall for future mine buildings and ore loading equipment.




After the site was watered down for a couple of days I had a new crop of rocks appear. A skip-loader is not a precision instrument and some of the larger gravel from the area around and under the dirt pile had been added to the fill area. I decided to remove some of the larger rocks that had shown up. While working on other yard projects I'd made a sifting box using 1/4 inch screen and figured that would catch what I wanted to take out. "Clean dirt" doesn't mean no rocks. What surprised me was the large amount of small rock, just over 1/4 inch, that was in the fill. Ballast? My back brought up the idea that it would be much happier watching ballast delivered than sifting 10 tons of "Clean Dirt"


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I use that natural ballast, ma nature sorts it on my hillside. 
It is not as good as broken rock, it wanders.. 

Have you thought about getting a hobby? Man that's a lot of work ahead! 

Jesting... 

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I use that natural ballast, ma nature sorts it on my hillside. 
It is not as good as broken rock, it wanders.. 

Have you thought about getting a hobby? Man that's a lot of work ahead! 

Jesting... 

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirt off yard gravel and onto site. Even with skip-loader there was plenty of shovel work to go around. Plateau is filled. But with extra dirt available there are several ideas perking, including a bump out to extend the loop over a canyon outside the current wall. Good place for a curved trestle as the loop turns from south to north.



East wall of plateau and dirt filled in between wall and start of elevation loop. Trench along north wall ready to extend main loops ladder system.



Dirt along the base of the wall will be tapered back to GL to match grade of track as it enters the tunnel around the northwest corner of the site.



Dogs are already looking for new places to relax since the dirt was moved as evidenced by "Lady" standing behind the pile in the center of the picture.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Alan has become a collector of dirt & rocks... 

I just thought you guys would want to know this. 
I've "seen" it ...first hand! 

Could make a great RC 4X4 dirt track area... lots of dirt jumps to fly over..Ha!! 

Really ..Alan is doing a great job here on his first layout. Even pre-training switches to survive in an outdoor environment!! 

He might even be running this year!!! ( planned - in 6 weeks ), for outer mainline.... 

So wish him luck and stay tuned here for more news while he builds..!! 

....Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Took a few days off after Dirk and Barb visited but finished up the plateau wall today. Was interesting to match up the blocks as they came together from two directions. As usual one of the inspectors was on-site to make sure all building codes were met to K9 standard.



Blocks for what was to the the south end of the plateau are in place and back filled. And the mountain of dirt got smaller. Still needs to be leveled and watered down several times to lock every things in place.



The pile of dirt to the right (east) of the plateau is now available for use elsewhere on site. Butting up the south and east walls took a bit of hand work since they didn't meet at a 90 degree angle or as part of a curve.



The curve at the southwest end was measured to provide smooth access from the mine loop to the main line. Double checked using 2 pieces of 10' diameter and 1 piece of 12' diameter sectional track to make sure there won't be clearance issues once that corner is covered and tunneled.



East side of plateau past the start of the grade of the elevation loop. Having reached ground level the track will curve 90 degrees to meet up with and parallel the two mains as they cross the raised walk way. This will probably be one of the last areas to have ladder put in to allow the dirt pile to be moved for other landscaping projects, including the down grade from the plateau and around the tree/roses.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy J broke out the magnifying glass and saw that I was stacking the block "dry". I drove wooden stakes into the holes of the overlapping blocks to limit movement then filled them with dirt. After watering them down a couple of times they aren't moving even when I walk on them so I should be good. As Dirk mentioned in his thread, I'll be able to swap block for "pretty rocks" or use rebar, plastic cement, burlap and chicken wire to cover the block. The real test will be in July and Aug. when the monsoons hit.

Alan


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Took a few days off...? 

Hope Dirk & Barb weren't overly taxing last week end... we had a great visit!! Even starting to make friends with Alans third somewhat shy pup!! I turned around and found him standing right beside me!! Like ..what happened..this dog keeps his distance....! 

I was wondering if you had done anymore "dry-stack" block work. 

You interested in coming up Sat. afternoon? A small crowd is growing! 

Dirk


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Alan I have done three walls with cinder block like you only I drove rebar into the ground then filled the void in the block with concrete. They are rock solid. 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

John, No concrete but once the caleche clay/dirt we have around here gets wet then sets up it might as well be. 

Dirk, the Sat. visit was great, especially now that Shadow has decided that you are a good guy. Next time you come by you may not be able to get rid of him until he gets his fair share of pats and pets. Do wish I'd had my camera to get a pic of PJoe (wife) and Barb looking over the site. The taxing part was yesterday when I put the suggestion about a bump out into action.

*BEWARE of fellow hobbyists* when they say "You know what would look really neat ........ " or "With a little more space you could ......." or even "All that dirt is just sitting there, so why not ............ "

The original track plan didn't have the plateau / elevated loop passing over the two mains. However with some inspiration provided on Sat. (See warning above), 25 more retaining wall blocks, untold wheel barrow loads of dirt, and good weather the site got expanded a bit.

A ground level shot looking north across the site several hours into the day looks pretty much like those I took a couple of days ago.



However the view from the east and west has changed.





The bump out adds about 80 square feet, 160 cubic feet of dirt, to the site. I used the existing wall blocks, along with 25 more blocks, to make the change. The original fill dirt stayed in place and at times I had to pry the blocks free to move them to the new location. Then the FUN began. I thought that the piles of dirt would fill the bump out with a bit left over. How silly was that?



Several hours later the dirt piles were moved from the level area, with some left in place to fill in a low spot, into the bump out. The area was watered to start compaction and cut the dust.



Not a lot of difference from ground level but I don't need to go to the gym for a few days. At least that's what shoulders and back are telling me. Have another call in to my dirt guy as the on-hand dirt stopped about 6" below the top of the wall. One added benefit to the addition: It cleared the Right-of-Way along the south wall for track expansion.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Excellent!!


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

This is looking real good!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't get it?? LOL Are you done YET???


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Glad you said that Marty... 
you have not for ..... 

... a .... long ... time..... 

Been worried 'bout ya!! 

D


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The flu bug delayed delivery of more dirt and "pretty rocks" for the bump out so there was time to work on the ladder system along the south side of the site. Ladder construction stopped at the entrance to the Hole-in-the-Wall and needs to be extended before the mine loop and power conduit can be done. 




Most of the PVC risers are in place for the two main lines and the level portion of the elevation loop (main 3) has been marked as they reach the raised walkway. Tentative placement of the 3 sections of walk-on as they cross the walkway. Sections of 20' diameter track on both sides of the walkway were used to form the curves and position the outer tracks. When final placement is determined the wall blocks and walkway treads will be dado-ed out to drop the track level to the walkway.



As the outer track curves back to the wall (Main 1) there is a spot that may become a short siding. The separation between mains 1 and 2 provides space for a freight station and the space between main 2 and 3 provides for a passenger station.



Tentative placement of freight station is the large blob of paint between main 1 and 2. The curve coming east from the plateau ends at the yellow chain and mains 2 and 3 are about 24" apart for 6'.



East side of plateau with the mains leading east to the walkway.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Frye, 
your photos are very nice..but..any chance you could just post the direct photos themselves? 
you are posting each image as some kind of fancy Flickr slideshow..they take a billion years to load..and im on DSL!  
(and its probably against the MLS photo posting rules..because they are far too large in file size..) 

please just post the direct image only..I actually stopped this page from loading after a few minutes..only a few of your photos had downloaded. 
I havent seen them all yet, and I would like to!  

thanks, 
Scot


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I'll try posting on laptop.... 2nd try... 

Hope you or someone else can help us Scotty.... 

My thread is slower to load pix currently.. 
Alan's is slower also..... 
they are also .... slower on My phone...? 

My guess is more is going on than just the new flicker slide show additions... 

But what is it???? 
Can we use less of the code for pix...? 

Was not behaving thus so even yesterday or this morning...but could be wrong.. 

Help if'n ya can!!!!! 
....Dirk - DMS Ry. 

I have hit the submit button about 50 times... the site is a mess once more... 


EDIT - added comments here; would not go thru on phone,..
however managed to submit ok on laptop.. D


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## jwalls110 (Dec 12, 2012)

FYI I have had no issues with the site all day. 
But I haven't posted any pics.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

how about just existing pix loading times...? 

D


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## jwalls110 (Dec 12, 2012)

The Flicker pics take time to load. They did load with patience. But that is outside the web site.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Yes It takes forever to load. Some times I can't go anywhere it it finishes loading 

JJ


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Firefox Browser is my answer, no dadburn compatibility buttons, already is... Small learning curve 
I was like JJ, no mas. 

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Also using Firefox but site is slow today even to put in reply. I'll try and resize pic's and direct load them into here. When I tried to do it that ay last year when thread started they didn't want to load for me which is why I went to Flickr and putting in the links. I wish that Flickr would quit changing the html code to add in advertising and direct links back to their site.

Alan


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

ooops - Alan, the pix do need to be "stored' some where on the net, - hence Flicker and other sites.... 

Your Buddy up North, 
... D


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I thought that the copy paste from Flikr was a link not the actual photo. Been working on the ladder along the south side of the plateau now wo match up track height with walk-on track as it crosses the walkway.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Ladder system for mains 1 and 2 are extended past the south end of the plateau and ready to bring to bring the mine loop back out of "Hole-in-the-Wall Canyon. More dirt, and pretty rocks, coming in tomorrow to fill the bump out and give a little extra for other areas around the site.
Conduit and wiring into the mine was "T"d off the junction box and wires for the mains are sticking up out of the fill dirt ready for track connection. The branch cable that stops at the north wall of the mine was just over 26', mid-range of the suggested 25 - 30 foot between feeders for DCC.



Once dirt is delivered the next major task is to put the walk-on track in place across the walkway then match up and level the ladders from each loop. Outer main is currently 14' from the walkway and makes a "S" curve north from the outer all to meet, hopefully, the walkway crossing.



As dirt is cleared to build the ladder, I'm dumping the into the screening box. The screened dirt that goes back into the trench once the ladder is in place doesn't contain many larger rocks and I'm getting a nice pile of 1" to 2" rocks to use later. The largest rock so far was about 4" across by 3" deep. Wind is picking up so time to water the dirt and get some honey-does taken care of.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What was the purpose of the bump out that you are now filling.....Why did you do it? 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

To answer John J's question: The bump out and track plan changes are the result of a comment similar to "You know what would be really cool .......... " while a fellow train person and I were looking at the site. It was mentioned that he (name withheld to protect the not-so-innocent) was working on trestles for his layout and if I had a little more room .......... etc. etc. 
Originally the elevated loop had a 10' diameter half circle at the south end of the plateau, stopping short of the mains, and a bridge to cross over the start point The new plan takes the elevated loop over the mains south of the plateau then circles back, still a 10' diameter half circle, over the mains to reach the bridge. The bridge begins the down grade that goes north around the tree and returns to ground level before crossing over the walkway near the south wall.





A trestle will carry the track over the mains and a to-be-constructed canyon that will split the bump out into two sections as it drops below the level of the outer wall and merges into actual ground level of the backyard. Size of the canyon will depend on how many large rocks I manage to get in place.

Building icons (Piko) included in the software were put in to show the potential location of the main "town" with freight and passenger stations east of the plateau. The mine and two other population clusters are planned for the plateau and inside the southwest portion of the elevated loop to justify the railroad.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So, looking at the up-dated plans, will your grades going down be a little easier to obtain now? 
I ask, looks longer than previously drawn.... 

fer a bigger canyon, stack those rocks a top themselves... 

Not much done here, warmer this week, so hoping to get out and go a bit further on the East curve, and into the East Wye.!! 

it will get warmer this week ............ right!! and less cool winds thru the pass... 

Dirk - not so innocent - with a big nose!!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Bump out adds about 2 to 4 feet of extra down grade depending upon where I place the bridge. Still need that 14" of clearance there. May make that 1.5% grade yet.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll try posting on laptop.... 2nd try... 

Hope you or someone else can help us Scotty.... 

My thread is slower to load pix currently.. 
Alan's is slower also..... 
they are also .... slower on My phone...? 

My guess is more is going on than just the new flicker slide show additions... 

But what is it???? 
Can we use less of the code for pix...? 

Was not behaving thus so even yesterday or this morning...but could be wrong.. 

Help if'n ya can!!!!! 
....Dirk - DMS Ry. 

I have hit the submit button about 50 times... the site is a mess once more... 


EDIT - added comments here; would not go thru on phone,..
however managed to submit ok on laptop.. D



You are just posting the wrong links..
you need to find the direct links to just the individual photos, and nothing more..
I think you might be posting something like this:

Like to a page the photo is on 

Notice there is *much* more on that page in addition to the photo itself..
On that page, when you click on "share this photo" you get a long "iframe" link..
that is also not the link you want! 

ok! I think I found it..click on "more actions" then "download/ all sizes"
that takes you to a new page..click on "medium 800" (MLS has an 800 pixels wide size limit)
right-click on the photo and choose "view image"..and there it is!
the direct link to the photo itself..you can tell you have it right when the only thing at the end of the link is .jpg - nothing else.
and! .jpg needs to be there..

now lets try posting that:


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

ok, that worked..but only after taking out the "s" in "https"..

notice that when you hover your mouse over that image, you*dont* get all the fancy flickr stuff showing up..
thats what you want! 
(im having a hard time editing this post, because its trying to load endless flickr scrips from the other photos)

so thats the right link..but there has to be an easier way to get it..
photobucket and smugmug have a "click here for the direct link" feature..where you dont have to do any major digging to get the link you want.. 
flickr must have that too..somewhere..I will keep looking.. 

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok, I think I found the problem..
techincally Flickr doesnt allow posting photos that way..they *require* all that fancy stuff, so people *can* click on the photos to get directly back to flickr..
thats great for Flickr I guess, they want the "advertising" to go anlong with every photo that is posted anywhere..but it requires a ton of bandwidth on a forum thread like this..

you can get around it, by sneaking in and getting the direct link..but flickr makes it difficult to get to that direct link, on purpose..

Is direct linking of flickr images allowed on external sites? 

That makes Flickr a bad choice for photo hosting, for a discussion forum like this, where lots of photos get posted in one thread..
I dont know what the "file size" of each individual photo ends up being with all that extra functionality added in, but I imagine its very large,
and almost certainty over the forum limits for one individual image..

something like photobucket might be better..

Scot


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I'll give that a shot. Figured it was about advertising dollars. :-(


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Well for starters here, Scotty - I now can see the pic you posted with a modified link...! ON MY phone...! a start, still I can not push the Submit button and get a response on the phone tho..? 

So moving forward and solving problems... 

THX - Dirk


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SD90WLMT on 13 Feb 2014 10:35 PM 
Well for starters here, Scotty - I now can see the pic you posted with a modified link...! ON MY phone...! a start, still I can not push the Submit button and get a response on the phone tho..? 

So moving forward and solving problems... 

THX - Dirk 
Dirk,

you can probably see the one photo I posted, but none of the other ones, because all the other ones have all the "fancy flickr slideshow" stuff along with them,
and your phone doesn't have the software needed to display them..(or it cant handle the download bandwidth needed to display them all..)

basically, they are *not* photos..they are MUCH more than photos! each one is a photo, with a ton of other junk along with it..
And I also think I know why "still I can not push the Submit button and get a response on the phone tho?"
its *also* because of all the extra stuff happening with those flickr images..

When I try to type a reply in this thread, I have to stop and wait for all kinds of things to load, before I can start typing..
sometimes it locks up, and I have to kill the window and start over..

It's ALL related to the extra Flickr code..
the one photo I posted displays fine, and "normally", for you because it's just a plain old jpeg, and nothing more..
that's the goal..

Scot


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

More dirt and ladder system extended closer to the walkway. Trying to load these pics from photo-bucket so if it works there are 4 or 5 more photos to add in.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Well that worked and quickly.







Ladder system for the two mains continues to extend E/B towards the walkway from the Hole in the Wall Canyon.

Bump out before the dirt arrived.



And after.



3 more tons going in with the first 5 or 6 bucket loads placed around ladder system and bringing the bump out up to the top of the wall. Dirt pile makes a a nice temp. mountain as track supports pass south of the plateau all.

View west bound with about 10' ladder needed to meet the walk-on track crossing the walkway.



Track will be level with the outer wall as the raised area, I didn't realize I had, is removed during construction.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

ah haaaaaaa, ya bailed on me neighbor!!!! 

Photo bucket won't have me.... 

Some one in the peanut gallery might point out that the pix are over 800 pixels wide.... I can't tell tho... :-} 

More Red dirt, more ladder, more risers, it's a race..!!! with yourself.

D


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So Back to 'ol flicker... 

....Alan, 
"Member we talked about My pix having "MY photo number, and My description"... 
then it went away with the new slide show arrows.... 
I think their new slide show became the default setting, adding to the 2 they had... 

I say 2 here.. 

Last nite after much playing on two 'puters, mine and laptop, My monitor blinks alot... so I miss things... And I don't do pix on the laptop, hence .... 
I tired many times to change the code, made blanks, black blanks, again, even made a nice 1/4 sized pic frame, ( no pic ), but in the end I noticed the 3 choices of coding.. 

Enbeded 
HTML 
BBcode 

I was sitting on the embeded code, and never use that. switched to HTML, and,... 
You guessed didn't ya. I got a pic to go thru easy as pie, which I can see on My phone, instantly!! Also kept looking at my phone while playing on two 'puters. Now mind you guys - these are not close to each other, like start at 250 ft. away or more.... 

I now have My pic number showing and My description for each pic!! all showing in the link that goes here...like I used to have last year... 

So don't give up on flicker... 

I was up till past MID-nite.... and it works today just as well... 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Lookin' excellent, Alan. It must be really satisfying to lay that final dirt in, after all that went into what's beneath. Great job.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

With that extra dirt on hand, and "pretty rocks" coming later this week I need to make sure that the ladder system matches up with walk-on track crossing the people bridge. I started with the outer main since measurements for the inner main are 7 1/2" on center while the inner track (elevation loop) is stand-alone except where crossover to / from the inner main will be.



Walk-on track is 5/8" thick which left 1/4" of trex attached to the walkway stringers once my cut / dado was done. No dado blades for my hand saw so I marked the edges of the walk-on track on the trex. The first two cuts were on the marks then I made multiple cuts, about 1/8" apart, inside the edge cuts. Using a claw hammer to break off the remaining material reduced the time needed to clean out the dado. I used a vibrating saw to clean up any high spots then countersunk screws into the remaining material to make sure trex is still securely attached to walkway stringers. The finished slot is to the left of the walk-on in the above photo.




Dropped the walk-on into place and some free-standing 10R track to show east side of walkway connections. Must have done something right as the track is solid under foot and even with the surface of the walkway. It even passed the "wearing house slippers" test.



West side of walkway with risers in place. Once I match up all three tracks, the wall blocks will be cut out to provide full support on both sides of the walkway.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Yikes the site has changed. And took the last pictures I posted along with them. will try using photobucket to see if those work. If so will re post those as well as the ones taken today.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Let there be track and there was*

The new look was quite a surprise and I saw where older pic's from Flickr were re-sized. I really like the preview post feature and auto resizing of pic's. Kudos to the code writer. 
Adding the pics that didn't make it from yesterday. Walkway marked and dado cut.










West side risers in place but one more was added about an inch behind the retaining wall.










East side of walkway with 10R track to show where the curve will follow the wall. 










A few more hours on the site and now I have some track in place, but still temporary. First pic is looking west over the walkway.










Close to ground level looking east to west. I had planned on adding a 1 foot section of track to the end of the walk-on to move the curve closer to the wall. After getting the west side matched up to the ladder the walk-on extended further than I expected, moving the curve into place. Not planned but I lucked out. One less set of rail clamps.










West to east with inner loop still under construction.










Retaining wall blocks will be cut and trimmed once all three sections of walk-on track are matched up with the ladder system on both sides of the walkway.


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

And a bit more south than above, but have not gotten to anything yet.
Lorna


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Lorna,
I'm shooting at April 12th for a open house since Chuck N. will be in the area. You are welcome to come "North" and visit. Looks like two outer loops will be in place and hopefully the elevation loop using temp. supports in place bridge and trestles. Not sure if I'll have power to the rails but there is this transformer on E-Bay I'm watching.  Besides Chuck, Dirk, and several others in the area use battery power.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ah...but not to...forget..Chuck will be in your backyard on the Friday before Tucson GRR open house tours..the one we talked about visiting together this year?!!

Ya..come on over Lorna...Like March 7th..the afternoon...

Looking so Cool Alan...

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Arrrgh The dates changed. Won't be able to attend as will be in Calif. attending motorcycle officers dinner. :-(


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

OMG Didn't we warn ya????

We always suggest a straight section between reverse curves! 
I see Slow Orders comin'


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So Alan...I take it you are now gone during the Tucson GRR open house weekend...

Us'n 3 left...Chuck, John & myself can change our meeting point then..

You gave Chuck directions to your GRR for that weekend...?

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Sorry to say but I can't make it. We've attended and/or worked on this since the mid 70's. 
Tickets for the Tucson GR Society are available online through their website and probably at the ACE on Kolb. When I went, all the sites were west of Swan. Several were west of Orange Grove on the back side of the mountains.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Well, OK,.. sorry you can't make your own train running!!

Cliffy says he'll bring dog treats, and we rest of us can just use the side gate..

We'll ''test out your track'' while your away!

Should work out great and we won't need to change our plans to go to your place.

Dirk


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Oh boy! Train races!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Tickets? What tickets, when I went it was just show up...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Yeah Tickets But they do come with the addresses for all the open sites.  Oh and having a Garmin is a good idea to since they are in residential areas and can be a bit tricky to find. I cheated and rode my motorcycle so I was able to park fairly close to most of them.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Even more track*

Several more hours of dado work on walkway for inner main plus moving a couple of risers an inch or 2 to straighten a curve and add a little more support. East side of walkway with track attached so I can mark locations for new risers.

<a href="http://s770.photobucket.com/user/fyrekop/media/Easttothewalkwaytimes2_zpsb9929b19.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/fyrekop/Easttothewalkwaytimes2_zpsb9929b19.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Easttothewalkwaytimes2_zpsb9929b19.jpg"/></a>

West side with fill in place. Wall blocks are marked and ready for carving with concrete blade once the final walk-on section is done.

<a href="http://s770.photobucket.com/user/fyrekop/media/Westtothewalkwaytimes2_zpsfb6cda2b.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/fyrekop/Westtothewalkwaytimes2_zpsfb6cda2b.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Westtothewalkwaytimes2_zpsfb6cda2b.jpg"/></a>

Switch on inner loop starts the cross over to connect the inner main to the elevation loop for east bound trains. Connection from elevation loop to inner loop E/B is located along the north side of the site. Will need to reset some risers for elevation loop so the receiving switch isn't located on a curve.

<a href="http://s770.photobucket.com/user/fyrekop/media/Startofcrossovertoelevationloop_zpsb4430150.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/fyrekop/Startofcrossovertoelevationloop_zpsb4430150.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo Startofcrossovertoelevationloop_zpsb4430150.jpg"/></a>

Dirk, John Not sure I'll have the ladder for the main completed and track in place in 10 days. But the dogs says you are welcome to stop by and give them treats.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*No pictures only the html*

No pictures transferred. Hop they do this time










Figured out what I did the first time. East side above, west side below










And now the switch for the cross over.










Crossing fingers


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Crossover dimensions*

This question is also in the Beginner's Forum but I figure more help is better. I'm putting in the crossover between the inner main and the elevation loop. The switch on the inner main is just west of the walkway and shown in the photos I posted a couple of days ago. The switches are both AristoCraft Wide Radius 10' diameter and the E/B lead-in tracks are 11" apart on center. The outer track is already in place and all measurements were taken between the north rail of the outer track and the south rail of the new section. After placing the new track I used a straight edge to line up the diverging tracks from the switches and came up with 14 3/8 inch straight section required to connect them. Does this sound about right? Just to make things interesting the outer loop curves away from the new section immediately after the switch.










Can't read the ruler but it's 14 3/8 inch between the end of the diverging tracks. Measured both sides and got the same measurement.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks correct to me.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

And just to try an trip me up..I posted on your other ?.

Ha...

D. Is it done yet... (Marty)


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The only measurement of concern is distance between the tracks measured at right angles.
The reverse curve phenom isn't as pronounced with switch curves as they lack the length to shift the car bodies very far. 

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks to all. Step 1 cut the straight track and clamp in place. Step 2 determine where risers will go. Step 3 put in ladder system between elevation loop and walkway. That only leaves another 200 feet of ladder system to complete the main loops.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Crossover in place*

The crossover project has added to my site in new ways. Rather than cut up a section of straight track I learned how to use my dual rail bender and straightened 2 pieces of 4' diameter track. With the now-straight 12" pieces I put together the crossover plus an additional switch to access the level area to the west of the roses and tree.










I put down track (approx 11.5' diameter Aristo) to determine where the risers need to go to connect the start of the elevation grade, to the crossover and walkway. The point I used to start the elevation loop is marked with the green metal stake leaning against the plateau wall, Looks like the rail bender will be in use again with the slight curve needed to link up the sections of ladder system and maintain the 22" separation where the passenger station will go between the inner loop and elevation loop. 










When I begin to secure track I'll bend the track to match the ladder for the inner loop since it is smaller than 10R but greater than 8R. Same thing with the track crossing the open space between the crossover and extension of the elev. loop.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*A few more steps*

The supports for the elevation loop have been extended to the walkway. Always a nice surprise when the original start point used to set the grade up to the plateau and the ladder rails from the walkway are level when they meet. About a 0.03% grade from the walkway and level with the other 2 loops until the curve northward then 0.05% to lead into the grade.










Track isn't secured yet as I need to dado out the walkway for the 3rd loop and grind off some of the top of the retaining wall blocks to match all three surfaces.










While moving dirt around to put in the track supports, a ridge sort-of formed itself between the outer loops and where the elevation loop curves in to parallel them. It looks like this would be a good access point for people to move between the town and plateau. Looks like I'll be learning how to build cribbing.










needs some more work but a combination of cribbing and earth stabilizer should do the trick. Will need a few switchbacks to get supply wagons up to top of the ridge which is about 40 - 45 scale feet above the town level.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Coming along so very nicely... Great track work...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

After taking a break to visit new Twin Granddaughters I broke out my trusty saw and finished putting the sections of walk-on track across the walkway and retaining wall blocks. Cutting the block to match the ladder system and walk-on was interesting, and dusty.










The track to the left (elevation loop) is already in place and the west side block for the center track has been cut. There is an extra cut out for the switch throw. The pencil marks on the decking are where I THOUGHT the elevation loop would cross. Glad I waited until ladder was in place and loops connected before I made that cut.










Marks for the cut-out on the east side. Slicing block is not a precision cut.










All three tracks in place. The walk-on sections haven't been secured to the decking yet. That will be done after ladder system is in for both sides and track is being put down. The sections are fairly tight already and didn't move during the "Walk across Carefully" and "Walk across Normal" tests.










West side track extensions confirmed that the rail bender will come in very handy when the track goes down. 10R curve for outer loop, 6R curve for center loop and 10R curve for elevation loop.










Looking across the walkway.


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

That looks great!!!
I bet it will pass the "child and dog running test" also.

Tommy
Rio Gracie


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

As ladder progresses I'm looking at putting down switches and connecting track for cross-overs as I go along. I've heard about conductive greases and research shows there is a "grease" made with silver that is top of the line, As is the cost. 8oz costs as much, or more. than 60 feet of new track
I'm using Split-Jaw clamps and want to make sure I get a good long-term connection. Anyone used "Noalox" or "Penetrox" with brass track??


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

I have just started using Noalox. Using it with brass and nickel plated track along with Hillman and Split Jaw clamps. My freight yard has only been down a little over a month now. I plan on doing the rest of my railroad with Noalox.

Tommy
Rio Gracie


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Tommy, Thanks for the info. and that's probably the way I'll go too. Your weather in SoCal is fairly close to what I have here so it will be interesting to see how well it works.

After a couple of weeks to let "sledgehammer elbow" AKA tennis elbow heal and take care of family related travel I'm back to digging in the dirt. Not sure if it's a major point but the ladder for the two outer loops is now ONLY 70' from being done. 








PVC marks the path of the elevation loop. The distance from the walkway to where the elevation loop crosses over the outer loops is a little over 80 feet so the grade turns out to be about 1.75% to 2.0%.








PVC is a great way to mark a smooth curve. With the grade needed to meet crossover height requirements east of the plateau this ladder will be about 1.5" AGL where the lighter pipe connects to the darker grey. It looks like I'll get plenty of practice making cribbing to keep the overall width of the ground supporting the track as narrow as possible.








Looking north into "The Narrows". This section is only 30" between the walls and provides access to all three loops for even the smallest hands. I plan to crib the elevation loop rather than put trestle where those small hands can easily explore how sturdy the construction is. The yellow chain marks the approx. location of the cribbed ROW and the estimated point where trestle will end.








View of corner and walkway looking west.








The northeast corner with elevation loop marked by chain and various plastic parts. Cribbing should stop and trestle begin where the green pivot stake is located. Small piece of PVC sticking out of the ground is connected to a junction box for outer loop wiring. The plan is to complete the elevation loop to the green stake as the outer loops are extended. After that finish the outer loops and start putting track in place so I can actually run trains.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ya could place cribb'n on the side close to the mains..
Yet fill with dirt on the inside..in up and down ravines..sometimes high above the tracks or low with small drain pipes...thru the cribbing..

How far ya get today??

Running yet!!

Dirk


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Inspiring pictures! Looks like next year to start building I kind of drained the budget lately.

Lorna


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Takes time to dig in dirt and pound on plastic pipe, so not running yet.

Using the PVC pipe as a template and actually measuring distance between #2 loop and Elevation loop I was able to put in a fairly smooth curve. As I was putting on the first side-rail I had to move one riser out about an inch to match the natural curve. Other than that it went well.









Track was put down for visual effect and I can see where the rail-bender is needed to match everything up. The first 2 feet of ladder are level then went up slowly as the grade increased to 1.7% by the 10' post. The loop will climb to about 18" AGL by the time the trestle crosses over all three loops near the southeast corner of the plateau. That height will continue over the bump-out and hookup with the ladder already in place on the plateau.









It was hard to see any elevation change while working on the first 10' but it really was going up. Track was about 3/4 inch higher than the 2 outer loops where the track ends. 20' of outer rail and 10' of inner rail attached to risers. The next 10' of inner rail waiting to be connected and then leveled with the outer rail. Using the laser level to mark the risers at 1 inch elevation change before attaching the outer rail helped to clamp rail to risers before checking with smart level and putting in screws.









Looking west over the east wall. The end of the rail past the clamp is 20' from the walkway and about 4 1/2 inches AGL. When I attached the inner rail and spacers to that point work will stop on elevation loop until the outer loops are complete, track in place and "things a run'in" as Dirk puts it.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Visiting in Medford, OR and lucked out that today was the 2nd Sunday of the month and opening day for the Medford Railroad Park, located off Table Rock Rd. Several clubs have layouts at the park that range from very nice HO to G Scale (battery, track power and live steam), (3)1' scale loops, and a Standard Gauge inspection car carrying folks around. G Scale club has 500' area with multiple bridges, tunnels, water features,. etc. Members I spoke with very helpful and friendly. If anyone is in the Medford area on the 2nd or 4th Sunday of the month through the end of Oct. it's a must see.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Finished up the ground level area of the elevation loop except for the cut-off that will connect to the inner main loop so trains can access all three loops during their travels.










The metal stake indicates the start of the grade. The cut-off switch goes in just south of the stake where the ladder rail is exposed.










The grade starts at level and increases at 0.5% every 10 to 12 feet until reaching the 1.5% grade that continues up to the top of the plateau at 16" AGL. Stacks in the foreground mark where the trestle will run out to the bump-out. PVC pipe in the middle of the level area holds power cable. Eventually it will be hidden inside a mountain of some sort.










Closer look at cut-off area and beginning of the grade.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

More risers for the outer loop into the Northeast corner. 10' radius track in place to mark the curve and determine where east wall sections sections will link in. Outer rail clamped to risers to start the natural bend in warm weather. TREX bends much easier when warm.










Plastic spikes placed every 18" thru the curve. Measuring #2 loop from the known curve results in a much smoother flex-track curve.










Risers along the north wall move inward from 7" off wall to 12" off wall to provide extra room for future 5' R curve of a "Y" leading to train shed and steam up area along the back fence. The other part of the "Y" will connect closer to the east end of the site so operators can choose what direction trains travel along the layout.










The train shed and steam-up area will be west of the large thorn bush located to the north of the site wall. Will require some situational awareness when sending trains to and from the storage area.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Looks Great....I like the way you are doing your curve 

JJ


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## Lorna (Jun 10, 2008)

Looks real good. Thanks for the pictures, it is giving ideas when I start getting serious next year.

Lorna


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

She's coming around the corner ..when she comes..tr la la...

I don't sing too hot...but I build a mean railroad!! Ha!!!

Gettin close thar Pardner!!

D


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

As I looked at your progress pictures I have a question. 

What is the yellow chain for ?

JJ


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

JJ...think of a BIG "compass" ..to draw circles with....
.....using it to follow curves....easy to have different circles...

'Course it could be Alans chain to his rocks...a working on the rock gang....

D...


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Aw Shucks!

And I was hoping the chain was used for something kinky, like chaining some cars to the track while the whole train got "coupled up."

(Just kidding!)

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Great FUN David....
...but Alan needs to get the track down to put his train on....

...or sum tin likie that!!! Ha!!

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk was right about the yellow chain. It's attached to a ground spike designed for a dog tie-down with a snap-link and built in swivel. Fun part is finding the correct center-point. That goes back to high school geometry. I marked the chain links from 5' to 12' since smallest radius track I'm using is 5' and the corners of the block wall were 11' radius. So far the 10'R track I'm using in my outer loop has fit in nicely. 
The kinky chain is chrome plated and has smaller links.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Good to know the yellow chain is kid friendly, I used it on the tree house I built!

Keep laying track, letting a train run is great motivation.

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Laying Track*

As the weather gets warmer most of the work is getting done in the morning. More PVC risers in place for both the #1 (outer) loop and #2 (middle) loop. Ripping more Trex for the ladder system. Thank goodness for cordless power tools.
The both ladders now extend along the east wall and around the Northeast corner (More tra la la la la for Dirk) And what started as a "I wonder what it will look like" ended up with 60 feet of track on the outer loop clamped, curves tweaked, 2 sets of power leads connected and tested. And track for #2 and #3 (Elevation) lops extends 20' or so from the personnel bridge.









All loops are extended past the personnel bridge/ Only the #1 walk-on track is secured at this time.









East end of site with #1 loop track in place. Dual-Rail track bender a must to tweak track to match up with the support ladder.









Northeast corner ladders in and outer loop track is ready to be extended as construction continues. There will be 4 switches put in as part of the straight section along the north wall. 2 to access the train shed and steam-up track to be located outside the walled area, and the other 2 as part of the cross-over to #2 loop.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I wasn't sure where this pic was taken, until I saw the chain, near the middle....


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

You sing better than I do Alan.....


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Continuing to put in risers and ladder boards along the north side of the layout. Taking longer than I planned as I decided to move the outer loop 16" from the wall rather than the planned 12" so I have more room to put in the turnouts and 5'R 180 degree curve leading to the (eventual) train storage shed along the backyard wall. Resetting risers for both loops took a bit but better now than after side rails are in.

Taking a break from the ladder project I put in track for the #2 loop from the people bridge to beginning of the northeast corner curve. 









More blocks were added to the inner wall to bring it up to 7" and some of the smaller rocks and gravel sifted out of the "clean fill" were dumped into the gap between the elevation loop ladder and inner wall. Two end blocks define the "flats" where buildings etc will eventually go.









Looking south towards the "Flats" some places that need a little tweaking with the rail bender to square up the track with the ladder. Power check shows good connections over the people bridge and past the cross-over switch to elevation loop.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

#2 loop ladder with only 20' of separation. #1 loop being revised to provide more room for access loops to the not-yet-built storage area and steam up track. Flickr changed their program so full pic isn't part of post :-(


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Warmer weather means less time on the trains unless I get up really really early. like 5 AM. Was 78 here at 7 AM which is cold for those In Tucson and Phoenix areas. But before it hit 95 I was able to finish the #2 loop, less spacer blocks for the last 6 feet. And it only took me 9 months to make the connection.









This was two days ago and yesterday doesn't count since I didn't work on the site due to part-time job.









Both rails ladder rails in place and the new Inspector checking out the work.









Plan for Friday (Honey Do's tomorrow) is to put in the spacer blocks, cut the risers flush with ladder sides, and put dirt back in place next to the ladder. If all goes well the ladders for both loops will be connected next week.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey guys...!! Alan snuck in here too!!
Try 4:40 something then...yer right..gets hot fast....but on good authority..the sun is coming up later now!! It'll be getting cooler soon enough.....
And before that comes..Greener too!!

All that matters is the connection Alan!
Time doesn't count for hobbies....

Time will stand still..just..
Stay in the moment...!

Ready pretty soon eh! Track next..!! ??

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

One more milestone achieved as both ground level loop ladders are connected all the way around. Next stage is to put down more track.








As track goes down on the outer loop I'll be placing 4 switches in place. Theses will be the cross-over switches to the inner loop and 2 for access to the eventual train storage and steam-up areas along the back fence.











I intended for the outer loop to be a bit straighter than it turned out but pnce track is in the small bends should disappear. Track will be free floating on ballast so ladder shouldn't be seen. inner loop was bumped in to make it easier to work on.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Well Fyr That is looking great.

JJ


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you try straightening the ladder before laying track, I think you want the track dead straight between the curves for looks.

I'm afraid the wiggles look big enough that both ends of all the ties will be on the ladder.

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Last line says track goes on ballast so wiggles won't be seen.
I understand ladder where elevated, but I think it's a waste of time and money in the dirt. Simple borders for the rock ballast would suffice.
I don't like questioning your design, but would like to understand.

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I plan on tacking the track to the ladder every 15' or so using a method I saw in here. A screw was placed between the ties and a wire bent around it and over the ties to either side to limit side slip from critters (small dogs, the cat and occasional others) that like to play in the soft dirt. The ladder provides stability as the fill dirt is still settling. Some places have dropped as much as 2 inches below the top of the wall since it went went in last year. Be interesting to see what happens if we get a decent monsoon this year.
Greg is right on with the width of the ladder and length of the ties matching up. I do wish it had been straighter but design changes to accommodate the train storage and steam-up area along the back fence and keeping the minimum curve at 5'R, required the outer loop to be bumped in 14 inches.
Spent a few hours putting down track while the 4th of July brisket was in the smoker.








I put down about 40' including 3 of the 4 switches that branch off the outer loop. The first switch in this East-to-West view is the clockwise travel entry point. Second switch is one of crossovers to the inner loop.








Looking East from the counter-clockwise access switch that will lead into the 5'R 180 degree leg of the storage track. Loose track placed on the inner loop is so I can estimate where crossover will match up. This section of the inner loop will have 3 switches, two for connections to the outer loop and the third connecting to the elevated loop.

Hope everyone has/had a safe and enjoyable 4th.


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## mostlyharmless (Dec 11, 2013)

This build is absolutely amazing! Love the raised plateau style. Have been dinking around in my head with doing something entirely similar. Thanks for sharing all your hard work!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

While placing switches for the loop cross-overs I realized I needed to put in the ladder system to connect the inner loop and elevated loop before putting down the flex track.
When the finishing the connector piece I found out that this will the the steepest grade on the site at 4%. Didn't realize that the site dropped off that much between the north and south walls.
None the less the cross-overs are now in place.








The other half of the elevation to inner loop is located near the pedestrian bridge on the south side. The 2 sections of track crossing the north wall will be 10' R half circles to connect to the storage yard sited along the property line wall.








Closer view of the west end cross-overs and one section of the elevation loop. About 6" height difference between the connector and the upper grade.
Next step...... more track.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Get rid of the hump*

Sitting in the cell phone lot watching it rain as I waited for my wife's plane to land when my cell phone beeps. A text from Dirk regarding latest post and mention of 4% grade and need for reconstruction. Texted back it should be about 2.5% grade must be a typo. Then we discussed passing tracks a bit until wife called to say she was waiting outside.

Went out this AM to check the grade with "smart" level. 1.5%, another couple of feet 1.8%, then 2.2% another 5 feet of steady at 2.2% then it jumped to 3.4% and 2 feet more was 4.3%. Slide another couple of feet. 2.4% then 1.4% ARRGGHHH Checked inner loop track where switch is located 1.4%.
Next step, remove dirt from around ladder system pull the screws from the risers and adjust to level out the 3 or 4 feet of "HUMP". Just goes to show that eyeballing a grade is not the most efficient method. BUT after looking closer I may move the south side switch further back and reduce the entire grade below 2%. More digging, more risers but a smoother connection.
Thanks to Dirk for catching my OOPS before track was put in. Added bonus is that the recent rains have made it easier to dig the riser holes for the "fix".
And we call this "FUN"


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ahhhhh...
Probably just be'n selfish...
...trying to figure how many batteries it would take to get my little 'ol C-16 up n over that grade...
While just pulling a combine or a flat car n caboose..

Long grades ...
Short trains....

Or maybe ...throw in a diesel dpu helper!!

...Alan...no time like the present for fine tuning!! It'll be short lived and soon forgotten..
Then you'll be running in hog heaven the rest of the days!!

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Getting rid of the HUMP*

After a bunch of texts back and forth, and keeping in mind Dirk's C-16 battery issues, I'm going to make several changes in the connecting track between the #2 and elevation loops. Ladder system shows how the original was going to be.









Using high tech. method to see what the proposed changes will be. This will add about 11' to the existing 20'. Will be about 9" on center from the curve along the wall which will require a longer bridge to the down grade going around the tree (out of pic. to the right) but shouldn't be a major issue.








Rather than be along the wall at the start of the N/B up-grade the switch is moved to the area closer to the pedestrian crossing which actually is a better location considering remote switching wires/pressure hoses once I decide what I'm going to use to work the switches. 








The piece of track in the lower right corner is about 8' from the pedestrian bridge and walk-on track already in place.
Another change not shown is I'll be moving the crossover sections between the outer and inner loops about 9' further apart so I'll have a 16' to 18' passing track along the north wall. No new digging just undo rail clamps and swap the track around 
Having several sets of eyes and different perspectives really helps.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

We will await your preview of the North section proposed revision....

Good luck ...keep it up...better now ....than later!!
Motion carried...
...the eyes have it....
......maybe ..I should drop in for a close call..
Could take the blue car on a food run...

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I was redoing the connection loop but couldn't get it to go below 2%. Even tapping the ladder rails with a light 5 pound hammer wasn't working. Kept removing dirt along the ROW and found the reason.








I thought burying the electrical conduct 6 inches below the surface was deep enough. MURPHY proved me wrong. Notched the bottom of the ladder rails about a inch and a half and the grade dropped to 1.6% at the steepest point.
When I reattached the rails to the risers it was interesting to see the difference between 3% - 4% and 1.2% to 1.5%.








Both ends of the section are connected to the main loops and once the rails and spacers are back in place I'll try and adjust the grade to 1.5% or less. It rained last night and packed things down so height difference it more obvious. The risers had been level with the tops of the rails before reconstruction.








Crossovers between the Outer loop and #2 loop have been moved further apart as well.








Outer loop is now 37 feet between switches with the #2 coming inat 27.5 feet between switches. Not sure if one of Dirk's heavy weight passenger trains would fit but anything with less than 15 cars should 
Easy to see that more flex track and the rail bender will be put to use soon.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Figure steam power...or..a couple diesels...

4' - 5'.. n the rest can be cars of 30" - 35" long....

I'll just brung what fits!!!!

Looks better.... Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Weather delay*

Since the connecting section was in it's time to put down some track so all loops are connected. Feeder lines attached near the pedestrian bridge for all 3 loops and 10' added to each westward. Curved tracks set on ladder waiting to be connected









20' feet of flex track put together and ready when the weather decided it was time for a break.








The drainage plan seems to be working and the temporary creek was mostly within its banks.


















Maybe time to rethink where the mine is going and change it to a lake?










If it stops raining this evening more track will go in tomorrow. No major issues and unlike some people in the area my fill dirt has pretty much stayed in place. Do they make a C-16 with floatation devices?


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## rntfrmme (May 23, 2013)

Ya just gotta love those desert downpours....;-) Bill


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Looks like the rain shows you where you going to need drainage. 
Might need a dry lake bed with a river.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

There is a plan to add 3 to 4 inches of dirt in the temporary lake area before putting in buildings, etc. 2 days without rain and the lake is pretty much gone. Putting in a leach line with a couple of drains under a dry pond/creek near the mine area sounds like a good idea too
With dirt being compacted by the rain track as put in over the ladder system. This is looking north towards back fence.









North edge of site with connection track in place. The grade of the elevation loop is in the background and about 6 inches higher than the at grade track along the north all.








More track in the shed ready to be put in place and finish up the two "flat" loops in the near future.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

No rain for a couple of days and the ground is returning to its semi-adobe hardness. More track going in.








160' of track, 5 feeder connections and seven switches later the north side is in place from end curve to end curve except for a 4' section of the inner loop connecting to the curve around the northwest corner.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Really enjoyed going through all your posts. We moved to Glendale, AZ from Flagstaff (got tired of shoveling snow). Your use of the Veranda fiberon looks good, especially for the curve sections. I am doing my new layout a little different. I will be building a 544 sf addition to the house first (hobby shop and train storage)...then I'll start on the elevated (my knees won't take a lot of ground level work any more) after the addition is done. I did some building in Sun City and posted a few shots of that. One quick question, where do you get your turn-outs and flex track from...is it the local Train Stop you referred to or do you go on line to places like Reindeer Pass? I have a lot of straight flex, but will need some larger sweep switches once I get started. Thanks, Ed


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ed:

There is/was a train store in Tempe called Roy's that had Large scale equipment. I'm not sure their current status.

Last March when we were in Tucson, we went to the Ace hardware in east 22nd. They also have Large scale. I doubt that either has large diameter switches, at least I don't remember seeing any.

Hope we can meet up next winter when Nancy and I get out to Sun City.

Cheers,

Chuck


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Morning Chuck (don't want to steal this thread), but thanks for the heads up on ACE hardware store. As far as I know (haven't been there in a couple of years), Roy's Train World migrated away from G-Scale. I know I tried to sell my large Marklin HO train collection to them, but they had gotten away from anything that wasn't US made (except for some Pacific Fast Mail brass). We do frequent the two swap meets at Adobe Railroad park in North Phoenix. I can often get some supplies there. I really like the progress on this layout, but it is larger than what I am planning on. Ed


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Ed,
I got all of my switches and large diameter (20' to 11.5') curves via E-bay. Still see ads for the 10' diameter switches. Bought 100' of PIKO rails from wholesale trains but the tie strips were from The Hobby Place (ACE Hardware) at 22nd and Kolb. Hope that helps
Alan


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

A numbered switch should have no radius/diameter, The track diverges on an angle and is straight through the frog....
Compromise of scale will sometimes add a curve in the points, but the spiked rails are straight.
Happy Rails,
John


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks for the direction on the track. I agree that you don't see a lot of larger diameter (pre-bent) track on Ebay. Lots of 4' diameter, 6 and sometimes 8'. My "work" area will handle 10-12 foot diameters at each end of the yard. I want to run the 4-6-0 and 4-8-0 engines that I have and minimize derailments. I know that most are caused by poor technique in track laying or shifting due to weather effects, but I would like to keep things moving once installed. Appreciate John's analysis on switches, but for most of the LGB and USA/Astro switches that I currently own, the turnout portion carefully matches the curved sections which are 4' and 6' diameters...probably not "proto-typical". If I get down to the Tucson area, I will look up the ACE Hardware store and check out their hobby section. Sounds like you definitely need to bring your plastic or checkbook...Thanks again


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Aristo didn't number their switches. Just has "Wide Radius - 10' diameter" as a description. I do have a Aristo #6 switch that I bought on E-Bay and it is a lot larger than the "wide radius" switches. It's the switch with the custom switch arm and red paddle marker. Haven't checked the diverging radius


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sectional track; no prototypical (10'D Wide radius wins redundancy awards) numbers. 
They did make #6; L, R and Wye. I bought a Wye from RLD back when, it's my car barn lead switch. It's designed more to be used with flex track, does not need to complete a circle of sections.
John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Sure glad I don't have to go thru all this needed translational switch terminology...

For My numbered turnouts....

;-)


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What is the Idea of the two switches going off into space. You making a Casandra Crossing?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The tracks into space will eventually meet in a wye leading to a steam-up track and storage yard.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

A few more pic's as the track is going down. Already found one place along the north side that needs a expansion track. That curve in the middle of the straight section was not part of the plan.








Along the south side facing east








Looking north over the flats and the elevation loop grade








Unwanted curve in the outer loop opposite the switch from the elevation loop connecting to the inner loop.








Looking south over the flats








Elevation loop getting track along north side grade


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

One step at a time is working.  Finished up the outer loop and then taking Dirk's advice I hooked up the wall wort transformer and basic TE that came with the starter set.
Will post the movie files as soon as I can figure out how to do it. Next purchase is a sanding pole and stack of Scotch Brite pads to clean up the older sections of track.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

In between your words....I detect a "it runs" code....hidden deeply in the current communique, eh!!

Sounds great....!!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Beautiful work Alan. Love how you're keeping an eye toward walkways and viewing spots and lighting. A huge work of art in the making!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk you were correct that the little transformer makes the 0-4-0 run Need to clean tracks around the tree however


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

We....could run 2, 0-4-0's....I'd have ta dig a little tho!

.....no video?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Not sure if that little wall wort could handle 2. About 20 feet short of finishing inner loop so that will be the next test


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Still trying to figure out how to load a .avi file into here


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can't, upload the avi as a video to Youtube and then post the link.

Greg


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*New to video too*

Greg, thanks for the information. Not sure how these will look but them I'm a beginner to video as well.

Maiden run 




Back to the start


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The areas of the inner loop under construction in the video are now finished and only a switch, power feeder, and 20 feet of track needed to complete the loop, less the cut-off into the Hole-In-The-Wall mine


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Seems your new vids are marked "private"...
....drew a blank for me..!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Me too.....Can't view the video 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Videos switched over to public view. Please let me know if I need to re-post them. Didn't realize private disconnected the link from everyone else.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Lookin' good now Alan, for the 2nd one (1st one is still "Private" for me). Isn't it cool finally running something on all that hard-won roadbed and trackage?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Yeah 50% fixed, got to see loco go back an' forth....
More!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Raining off and on here all day but track needed to finish inner loop is made and ready to go in place as soon as it drys out tomorrow


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

All should be viewable now


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Looks great Alan.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks Cliffy. Once trains are running then comes the fun stuff of building mountains. After seeing how you did your mountain and cavern to allow access to "hidden track" I'm thinking of doing something similar but without the swing down door. Ever considered snow-birding to southern AZ. Between Dirk and I, you would be busy


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Ha ha Alan!
Yeah, I'd love to see your take on a cavern & set of mountains!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Shouldn't be too hard, besides he has a couple of Expert Kibitzers on call....

John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Totalwrecker said:


> Shouldn't be too hard, besides he has a couple of Expert Kibitzers on call....
> 
> John


That's true. And if I recall correctly, both you and Dirk have cement mixers, so Alan should be all set!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

For a bag of concrete I prefer my hoe with holes in the blade and the old wheelbarrow. I can get 'em in my truck should the call come.....
Kibitzers are all about non-involvement!
JC


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Cement mixers. ...

Or people mixers!!


I find it not worth dirtying a real mixer....

Like John....I use a hole-less hoe...n wheelbarrow..
...short work of mixing....gets to work area....fast to clean up..

I never get to mix up much at once....

..sounds like TW is the KinG.of.kibitz'n here....
...shows what he knows...
......give him a call...

Just got off maintenance duty. ..tard now!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I use a mixer. Dragging a Hoe through the Mix is too much work.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I think I mentioned somewhere that I used 160 bags of crete on the mountains. So, if Alan's got mountains in mind, I see a mixer, or lots of backaches, in his future, haha! Doesn't have to be costly, HF has their larger (steel) one on sale for $210. 

After one season of hand-mixing and Advil-swallowing, I got a plastic-barreled cheapo Kobalt (Lowes) brand, and it was $300. It was built like monkey doo-doo. I figured I'd get a couple seasons out of it, but it's hanging in their after 4 years of use.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I just finished up the inner loop yesterday before "Honey Do" kicked in. Hope I get the chance today to run the 0-4-0 test engine. Have pad and pencil and several large erasers on hand for mountain design.
Cliffy what did you use to build track support on the back side of the mountain here a trestle could go in? My elevation loop has about 50' of "hanging in the air pending trestle/butte construction" before I can put down track. Need a temp. fix that will last until trestles etc are in place.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Hey Alan,

I got a sheet of 1/2" exterior plywood, cut 2 temp bridge layers, and doubled them up (glue / screw). Then cut and shimmed 4x4 posts in place, screwing the plywood on. Then made concrete bases for the posts (very shallow holes), and painted.

I can't remember if it was "marine grade" or just treated plywood, probably the latter. After 3 years its holding up fine, except for some paint scratching off. Hopefully I'll get to the trestle this decade...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Decade seems to be one of those constant timelines with this hobby.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I am on 1.5 Decades 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Several unexpected "Honey Do's" over the past days but finally got a chance to do a test run on the inner loop. A walk around got rid of all but one of the mesquite tree pods and that had wedged its way under one of the switches along the north side of the site. The engine found it and indicated the issue by derailing. :-( After another careful sweep of the site it went much better.





Still working on my video skills


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Congratulations Alan, looks great!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Getting ready for Christmas but managed to come up with a plan to answer Dirk's question about seeing the mine area without walking all over the site.
When in doubt bridge it. 








4' wide and used trex boards for decking. Clearance cars made it thru okay before I used a train.








Plenty of room on the two outer loops








Track to the base of the deck is just a bit over 12". Wanted to make sure trains will clear going up or down the grade
I probably over-built the deck but once I finished I'm glad I did as it provides a clear view of most of the track which means operators and observers may spend time on it.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That is NICE!!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The holidays are over, I'm finally over the flu and since the sun was shining until a couple of days ago, I managed to extend the elevation loop ladder system along the north side of the mine area. I "found" a box of 11.5' diameter track and used that instead of the planned 10' diameter. Meant moving some posts already in place but it moves the track away from the canyon wall.








These photos were taken from the observation deck. Northeast curve heading back toward the mouth of the canyon.








Southeast curve at canyon mouth and more 11.5' dia. meter track resting on elevation stakes to cross over the ground level loops and over the bump-out. With the additional dirt available from construction of the solar system the bump-out was extended enough to allow the use of 11.5' dia. track rather than 10' dia. and still leave room for scenery near the people bridge.








Track is set at 12" above rail height and may go an inch higher depending if the "mountain" is built out to the edge of the bump-out. About 10' of track between where the track crosses over the loops and where it will cross back over along the east side of the plateau.








The extra length of the to-be-trestle track has allowed the percentage of grade from the cross over back to ground level to drop from 2% to 1.5% or a little less. I'm sure battery-power users will be much happier with the lower grade. Once all is in place will be interesting to see if Live-Steam engine can make it as well.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Work continues on the mine loop with ladder finished for loop and mine siding.
East bound entrance.








West bound entrance








The Hole-in-the- Wall Canyon








North view from observation deck








South view 








Next on the list is some buildings, little folk and landscaping


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Lookin beautiful Alan!
Looks like you're using flex track, that'll follow your roadbed real nicely -- if you want it to. But, you'll probably hide the RB in ballast anyway, so it doesn't matter I guess.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Looks great. What are you going to do with the cinder blocks around the rim?

I can't wait to see what you are going to do with them 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliff - Going to float the track on ballast so the RB should disappear. Won't run multiple trains through the mine as the same time so track spacing isn't as critical as first built.
John J - Plan is to hide the blocks using wire and mortar soaked burlap method to build out the cliffs. Same method being considered for building the mountains that will cover the northwest corner and out over the WB entrance to the canyon. Not sure if my back could handle Cliffy's 86 bags of concrete method, as great as that turned out.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

If you use the hoe to mix, you can work out the kinks in your back from bending over to apply and it takes the Rush out of your play.... 86 becomes child's play!
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I think it was 156 bags, but who's counting? 

It will really be fun watching your progress on those mountains Alan! 

Cliff

PS, we need to start a pool on how many bags Alan uses, when all is said and done... 

PSS, John, it almost sounds like you're signing up for the mixing...


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yea .. right....
If John does the "mix'n", ... then Alan's back Kinks won't get pulled out...

It was a healthy offering by John....

....'sides....it works fer me!!

The hoe is a healer....and sumptin gets done.....

..build those mountains...go fer 200 bags!!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

"The Healing Hoe."

I think I have that album, but I no longer have the 78 rpm phono player for it, dang.

Here's the T-shirt though,


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Careful, sounds like a less than healin' rap title, mp3 is now old school!
Wax on, wax off. Balance in life.
I go now.
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I've continued with the elevation loop and marked out the area here the trestle will be. Earlier photos had track teetering on single grade stakes so I went back and reset the supports using two stakes with a 2" block of ripped 2x4 for better support. From several posts in here I figured it's better to put the track together where it will eventually run and then put in supports rather than mark on dirt and guess.
After carefully leveling the dozen or so supports leading from the ladder, making sure there as about 13 inches of clearance over the mains near the mine entrance, I reached the east side of the plateau and crossed over the mains, the beginning of the elevation loop, and the cross-over between the elevation loop and #2 (inner) oval.
Before hurting my arm patting myself on the back for the leveling job, I checked the track clearance at the east end. Clearance wasn't 13" as expected, it was 16". Hoped the drop wasn't more than 1.5% once I set the desired clearance the supports at the east end. As seldom happens on my site I had guessed pretty close. Even with transition grades put in, the steepest sections worked out to 1.3%. 
Looking eastbound over the mine entrance.








Looking north over the bump-out








East end and the east side of the plateau.








16' section of Trex will go away once I get more grade stakes in place. Grade should be 1.5% the rest of the way along the north side and behind the tree to join existing ladder support on the east end of the site.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

A couple more days and the temp. track supports are in place. Went back and checked the slope making a few adjustments to smooth it out. Ordered more straight track as it turned out I had enough curved pieces but about 25' short of straight.








Trestle meeting the in-place ladder system along the east side of the site. More ditching for power lines now that I know where the leads will be going. Due to the length of the section the leads will be about 25' apart rather than the 30' used before.








The final placing looks like a large "S" starting behind the tree and ending at the west end of the bump-out








The curved sections of the "town and ranches" stub are in their approx. position (to the right of the dirt piles) with a 16' piece of Trex serving as straight track. Haven't decided if there will be sidings for customer access or individual stubs switched off the main track. Also considering a round house and turn table at the end of the stub, between the trestle and the wall around the tree and roses. Those decisions can wait until trestle and several bridges are in place and the mains tested and tweaked as needed.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

It's looking good Alan you've got a year!
Chuck will be back and we'll want to run on it!
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

TW John. 
Ordered the flex track today and have trestle jig waiting to be used. Ripping cedar fence slats down to 1/2/ x 1/2 and should put together the first bent tomorrow. Once the track comes in I think the temp. supports are heavy enough to run my 0-4-0 over them. Wouldn't trust them with Chuck's Mallot however. Curves on the trestle are 11.5', 12.5' and 20' diameter so no tight turns to contend with.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Not to worry. The mallet now stays home in Virginia. Battery power I have in Arizona is an AristoCraft Mikado and a Delton Doozie/goose.

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Hey I'm giving you a whole year! You can do it!
John


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Now that is a lot of track...Ha. Should be great when you are finished. Any place particular you are ordering track from?....I'm headed at the end of the month to the Adobe RR swap meet and hope to find some there. Thanks, Ed


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Ed,
I've been buying Piko rail from Wholesale Trains and boxes of Aristo flex ties since E-Bay has pretty much dried up. Aristo is "Out-of-Stock" for just about everything track-wise now. The "local" train store (Tucson) has been reducing their inventory and I as able to get 5' straights for less then $7 a foot which is decent compared to some asking $10 a foot on E-Bay. Once I finish the main loops I'll be able to be "pickie" about purchasing more track and switches for feeder lines. Good luck with your swap meet adventure.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Alan, if your supplier of brass flex runs out, you can get 10x5' from Train Li for $335 ($6.70/ft), comes with clamps. It's an LGB look-alike.

[edit] I've been enjoying your pics. Your track looks great!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I'll bring a "Mac" & pull John's new "Solarium"....

....theys' can run circles around the layout!!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Alan, FWIW, I just noticed that Reindeer Pass has the Train Li rail at $200 for 20 pcs @ 5' (so, 50'), and the tie strips at 10' for $13. So for 50' of track, that's $265, or $5.30/ft.


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Thanks for the tips. The Abode swap meet is tomorrow morning, so I may look there for some. I've been moving block (know that you know all about that) and it had to be pleasing to the wife, so I'm using Pavestone Rumble stone (Sierra Blend) and for just three rows it is costing about $10.50 a foot....ouch. I have been taking some pictures, but I should start a thread for those who want to critique and give me pointers. I will have a better idea on how much additional track I'm going to need after I get these raised beds built. Getting warm these days...will be 90 plus over the next week.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Finally connected tracks for the elevated loop and got the slope down to 1.5% in most areas. A few sections between 1.8% and 1.6% but should get those to 1.5% as the trestle goes in. In addition I'm looking at where fixed scenery, aka mountains, will be going. 2x6 crossing over the level mains at the entrance to the Hole-In-The-Wall/ Bazemore Mine is the first support in place. Grade stakes to be replaced by a 4x4 and edge of mountain will rest on the retaining wall.








Several expansion joints for the loops in place as the temp's are into the mid 90's.
Putting ballast down so track can settle once the rains start. Ballast is "Red 1/4 Minus" and covers the places where track and support ladder aren't exactly matched.








This is the northwest corner looking south under the observation bridge. It took four 5 gallon buckets. Ballast in the morning then into the (air conditioned) shop to build trestle bents during the afternoon.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Looking great Alan. Like the ballast. Any pictures of the trestle that's being built, or concept photos? What are you building the trestle from? Scratch built or kit?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Eric
Thanks for the comments, nice to know I'm on the right track.
The bents are being scratch built using a jig from Black Bear Construction. The jig can be set for scales from 1:20.3 down to 1:29, with 4 or 6 legs. I selected the 4 leg Rio Grande Southern pile bent style in 1:24.
Top caps, legs and track support stringers are being ripped from redwood fence slats. Tops cap and track supports are 1/2 inch and the legs are about 7/16. The cross braces and material to join the bents together are 0.148" x 0.667" cedar that I bought from Black Bear.
There are 2 bridges along the route so looking for kits. The 24" long straight bridge shouldn't be a problem but the other bridge is located on a 6' radius curve and about 18" long. That one may have to be shopped out. Haven't seen a kit for a 42" bridge with a curve on one end.
Alan


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Looking GREAT Alan, and I'm really looking forward to seeing your trestle building!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Not raining (yet), not too hot, and no trips planned soon so time to get back to work. With the rains we've had, I needed to put down 8 more 5 gal. buckets of ballast to replace washed out areas and extend ballast onto the elevation loop. Needed to build something so started on the trestle.
I made templates for the track over the bump-out using half inch particle board and put it in place. When the bents are leveled, footers in and the bents attached together the template will be replaced with 1/2 inch risers/runners for the track to rest on.
After marking the center line of the track I drilled 5/8th inch viewing holes 7" apart on the center line and marked the center of the top caps on the bents.










Using the viewing holes made it much easier to put the bents into place and roughly center them. Using 3 1/2 inch rubber bands the bents were put in place under the template.









The legs for the bents were cut 15 " long, so I had to dig out trenches to adjust for the grade. Legs are not secured and can be easily adjusted for center and square.
Once the bents were in place I replaced the track to check for center.








Before bents have concrete footings poured in each will be centered then squared to the track ties.








The grade will be checked (several times) before the footings are poured. I have found that using a bottle jack to adjust the grade makes it much easier and everything stays in place.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That looks GREAT Alan. I've often wondered how to pour footings for to-be-trimmed bents, kind of a chicken and egg thing. So your suspension approach answers a lot of questions, thanks! 

Are you going to cast the bents in, or trim and pour up to their ends somehow?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy, I'm going to cast them in after putting in a layer of small gravel, figure they will stay in place better that way. Once concrete is set up for a few days I'll add "top soil" and cover the footing so it looks like they are driven into the soil. The bents down grade don't need to be as long so will use a laser level from the top of the wall and add 2 inches for the next set. Then comes the fun part of finding a kit for 16" long, 6' radius curved bridge.
Saw your updated post for your layout, looking very nice.
Alan


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks Alan. And yours is sure looking great!

For myself, I'm not quite feeling great about casting it in place (yet), but thanks for explaining. 

I've been vaguely thinking about using your method, though with some intermediary piece that stays with the concrete, separates from the bent, yet indexes the bent. Haven't gone further than vaguely thinking though. 

However, I guess when the trestle gets huge, there's no way to horse it out for repairs anyway (without messing up lots of joint alignments), as with smaller bridge methods.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Allan what are you going to mix for Footings? 

JJ


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

CliffyJ said:


> Thanks Alan. And yours is sure looking great!
> 
> For myself, I'm not quite feeling great about casting it in place (yet), but thanks for explaining.
> 
> ...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Nobody asked me, but that's never been an obstacle before...
JJ; I like CementAll for castings, I now use the additive Cliffy brought to life that helps the slurry. I like it because it has a low shrinkage rate and sharp details.
I'm an add water kind of mixer.... KISS works mostly.
John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Regarding the footing story....I'm leaning more towards using simple pavers.. cut in 1/2 or 1/3's..

They spread load out over a greater area... settle less obviously..add a wood shim as needed if level height doesn't match bottom cap of bents...sprinkle some dirt around.. hides the paver..
Cost effective... timely....easy to install.. hidden..can be worked with later if need be...the earth does change n move around on use'ns that play with our toys outside..

Tread lightly... step easy....be flexible..
... gee a motto...!

@@


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I hear ya Dirk, but for really undulating-ground trestles, it's still a chicken-and-egg thing. Like, you put the pavers down, or pour the footings, and hope that the measurements result in a bent that is exactly the right height.... 

I like what Alan's doing, in setting the top as the datum, and trimming the bottoms. 

Still not sure about the casting in place though, no matter what the concrete type is. Though that's important too, thanks for reminding me of that stuff TW John. 

So at the risk of sidetracking Alan's progress, and it is HUGE and INSPIRING, that interface between timber and footing is important. Like TW said, pilings are driven in; and, from what I've seen, cut timbers rest on a sill beam. 

For me, to a large degree, things boil down to drainage. It's tough to make the lower part of the bent 100% drained, while anchoring it. 

Here's a thought. Mark each suspended bent for where it will need to stop at the bottom. Take them off, and cut them short for the sill beam (say, 1/2"). Band them back onto the deck gauge. Somehow strap a piece of 1/2" plex to the bottom of each bent, as an upper form surface.... and when the crete is poured, add the sill beam to each bent. Maybe embed some SS nails in the crete for indexing the sill beams. 

Naah, heck with that, that's too complicated....

[edit]
Interesting idea TW with the split footing. You think a CementAll anchor on each bent would be light enough, after it were made thick enough to not crack?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Pavers can have fill added or removed beneath them...

And. .. its not been discussed yet... but a really good way to build a trestle is by using a track guide like Alan is doing... or an accurate line.... on a flat surface...build the entire trestle on the stringers... but "upside down"...add bents correctly... add sway braces... add diagonal bracing... all on a trestle in a fixed position..

Doesn't have to be on flat ground... varying terrains works... stair step pavers....
Don't work hard...just accurate.. its Fun!!

@@


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I've seen trestles built upside down, and I agree, it's a great method, at least for the brace and stringer phase.

But for fitting the bent bottoms, I still think it's tough. Like you say Dirk, pavers can be vertically adjusted. But how long until they sink? You'd have to tamp the soil, and lay the paver, and... shim it up? I'd almost rather tamp, lay the pavers (or pour the footers), measure down from a datum, and locally shim the bents as needed.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

The idea of using pavers is to spread the load over a much larger foot print..
Actual settling is nil.. dirt can be pushed under sideways..doesnt need heavy tamping... water does a good job also....
The trestle weighs next to nuthing...
Train loads spread over so many bents induce little load also..
Bents 8" - 9" apart.... how many support one loco..
Most locos run under 10#'s
Larger .. heavier locos.. are gunna be longer..

So what does single bent loading come to .. to carry even a 20# loco?
3-4-5 bents join in the party.. fer one loco...
A 30" diesel would spread its weight over 4-5 bents.. even my 20#unit.. sittin on 5 bents creates only a 4# load per bent.. 

You won't be standing on these pavers... your toys will run across a beautiful trestle tho!!

That said... building trestles is on a case by case basis.. I will have 3 primary trestles on the N.G. loop. One is a 9ft straight unit.. will be built on a bench.. but the other two are very large.. n curved. These will both be built on-site.. in place.. like a boats keel.... starting with installing the main stringers.. building from there!

Ready to start yet Cliffy?!!

@@


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Totalwrecker said:


> Nobody asked me, but that's never been an obstacle before...
> JJ; I like CementAll for castings, I now use the additive Cliffy brought to life that helps the slurry. I like it because it has a low shrinkage rate and sharp details.
> I'm an add water kind of mixer.... KISS works mostly.
> John



I cut about 6 inches off the bottom of a plastic 5 gal bucket. I use that to mix small amounts of Portland and or Stucco Mortar mix. I use a kitchen Hand mixer. I can make it as soupy or as stiff as I think is necessary.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

John J said:


> I cut about 6 inches off the bottom of a plastic 5 gal bucket. I use that to mix small amounts of Portland and or Stucco Mortar mix. I use a kitchen Hand mixer. I can make it as soupy or as stiff as I think is necessary.



I use a mud mixer for sheet rock mud, a long shaft with a couple of perforated and shaped discs. I chuck it in my 1/2" drill. I use a rubber bowl that can be pushed into a spout for pouring the mix.
At this point I add stucco tints, rather than painting, chips don't show.
John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

CliffyJ said:


> I hear ya Dirk, but for really undulating-ground trestles, it's still a chicken-and-egg thing. Like, you put the pavers down, or pour the footings, and hope that the measurements result in a bent that is exactly the right height....
> 
> I like what Alan's doing, in setting the top as the datum, and trimming the bottoms.
> 
> ...



As you noted the timber bents rest on a mud sill. I was thinking a footing an inch at least thick. The second pour is to bring the ground up to the good foot. Covered up you only see the good and the bents are stable.
I'd likely use rubber cement to 'attach' the foots temporarily, the idea is to locate the sub footings. I'd leave the final assembly as gravity held to allow for expansion/contraction.

John


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## backyardRR (Aug 14, 2012)

While my timber trestle is not as long or high as Alan's, I have used the paver stone method with success. The trestle was built off site with the bents being absolutely level and even along the bottom and top. The trestle site was dug out then weed block and tamped paver base was added. I placed the pavers via trial and error until I was satisfied that they were all even and level after being tamped in place with a rubber mallet. This required the addition or subtraction of paver base under the pavers.










Note the prebuilt trestle in the lower right and the various levels in the lower left. Also the rubber mallet for making those fine adjustments. 









The trestle and tracks were set in place and checked for level. At this point no major adjustments were needed.










I made sure that the bottom of each bent was fully resting on it's respective paver. I recall that the step pavers at each end required some minor adjustments.










I then added pond stone that pretty much covers the top of the pavers.










After a long hard winter with temps down near zero the trestle showed no movement when trains started running this spring.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I completely agree with John regarding allowing for unforeseen movement..

Both ends of a trestle are kinda tied inplace by the end retaining walls.. and track..
But the rest is subject to the properties of expansion.. as are every building material we use outdoors to build our pride n joy layouts..

Better to let trestle weight rest on a footing.. yet not be bound by them...

Dirk


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Really nicely done, Wayne.

And TW John, good ideas, I'm liking it. One could further consider pre-casting the upper & exposed footer, and cast in a couple of SS nails. The sill beam would have a couple holes drilled to match, and can come away from said footer.

After using Alan's method to mark and chop the bents, the sill plate can be permanently installed on the bents. The upper footer is wired on w/ ss wire, and serves as the ceiling for the concrete base (which is concealed). The crete is poured up to the precast footer, which always remains on the concrete. Once set, the wires are clipped, and the entire bridge can be taken away (with a helper or two). The sill plates are indexed, yet there is full drainage for them (and the rest of the bents).

[edit: I just realized that John's rubber cement would take the place of my SS wire]

True, a lot of trouble. Clearly, the easier method would involve burying the timbers. On pavers. Just opining for fun though.

===>Cliffy


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Trouble with fast and easy; the resulting repairs never are.
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

All great ideas and using sliced up pavers as footers should work. With the rain we've been getting the recently filled (Dec and Jan) area of the bump-out has compacted about 1 inch which isn't bad. How does using pavers as the main support then filling around the bents with 1/4 minus or next size up so it drains better an then topsoil over the gravel sound? Was planing on glue/staple of 1/2 x 1/2 at dirt level to strengthen the legs and spread the load. So many choices and ways to do things


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

So many choices....

I had one choice. .... get indoors!!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Went with Wayne's suggest and mixed it with Dirk's cut paver idea. Got the first three bents in place yesterday {Pic to follow


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Yesterday was 6 weeks ago but vacation trips intervened. With the original three in place I've been adding on. As each new bent goes into place I'm learning a few tricks to speed things up. Still takes about 1/2 hour per bent to keep the grade at 1.5% (plus or minus 0.1%). Work in the morning and watch it rain in the afternoons. The first section of 11 bents is now in place and ready for stringers to be added once I complete the next section over the bump out and stopping at the first bridge.
Humm Photobucket not letting me copy and paste photos as usual since I went to Windows 10.  Photos to follow as soon as I figure this out


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Still trying to figure out how to copy Photo Bucket pics over and show the photo. In the mean time here are a couple of photos taken two days ago> I've added 4 more bents since these were taken.

http://i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx342/fyrekop/First section w track_zpsywayoj8j.jpg

http://s770.photobucket.com/user/fyrekop/media/First section w track_zpsywayoj8j.jpg.html


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Looking wonderful Alan!


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you can just copy and paste......










worked for me. (this computer still Windows 7)
Larry


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

copy and paste in ubuntu










that worked also....Larry


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

If all else fails go back to MS Paint and do a resize.  In addition to fighting with program "upgrades" I've been working on the trestle. Learning some techniques to reduce the time it takes to put the footers (12" pavers cut into thirds - Dirk) and get them level, place the bents and keep them semi-in-place (rubber cement - Cliffy), adjust to meet grade requirements, and attach the stringers (Tite Bond II and pin gin - Lots of people). The result is the "big pile" of bents are now in place along the edge the bump out (Dirk's - You know what would look cool is...) to where the tracks turn north along the edge of the raised plateau.
Thumbnails show the first section done(1), Bents stacked ready to be installed (2) Completed section 2(3), Train eastbound toward the Northbound curve (4), and looking west to where a mountain will form the entrance to the Hole-In-The -Wall and mine area.
Sections 3 and 4, along the east side of the plateau, include 2 bridges needed to cross over the 2 outer main lines and the beginning of the grade up to the plateau. Sections 3 to XX will require about 150 more bents.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Sure goes together well Alan..!

SD.... ;-)


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Looking good Alan!
Following instructions; Imagining a mountain... Behold the Russian Steppes!
A nit picker will tell you that timber (cut lumber) bents need a mud sill... while piles made from tree trunks were driven into the ground. Poor Cliffy may be miffed when I suggest you carry on, as you are!.
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I plan to put in "mud sills" once I have sections in place and dirt/gravel/ground cover leveled. Thinking of using 1/2" x 1/2" timbers attached across the bottom of the legs on both sides with end caps


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

If I picture what you said correctly; you are going to add horizontal bracing and call it a sill? That will work for Some of the people... 
The sill goes between your bent and the pavers.... just saying.... after a monsoon they may not be seen again! So it's not a big deal...
John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

fyrekop said:


> I plan to put in "mud sills" once I have sections in place and dirt/gravel/ground cover leveled. Thinking of using 1/2" x 1/2" timbers attached across the bottom of the legs on both sides with end caps



What are " Mud Sills"? 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

You are right on about the monsoon, TW. Several places on the site now have ballast 8" away from the tracks. I'm going to do a rough "level" put down weed block and then cover that with earth-colored gravel. Hopefully that will keep the braces above ground. I expect they will tighten up the bents even if they do disappear next year.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

John J said:


> What are " Mud Sills"?
> 
> JJ



JJ, Mud sills are the bottom board of a wall, next to the foundation. They are often treated wood.
In a trestle of cut lumber they are the bottom board, the bents sets on them. Cut timber trestles sit on the ground, pile trestles are driven into the ground.
John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Totalwrecker said:


> JJ, Mud sills are the bottom board of a wall, next to the foundation. They are often treated wood.
> In a trestle of cut lumber they are the bottom board, the bents sets on them. Cut timber trestles sit on the ground, pile trestles are driven into the ground.
> John



Thanks for you explanation 

JJ


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good. Later RJD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Have reached the half way point of the trestle. Only 55 more bents to go. First photo is looking southwest coming from plateau and around corner to the bridge that crosses over the 3 mains. Photo 2 is looking west from the pedestrian bridge. Photo 3 shows where the dog has helped open a potential new mine. Not sure is where she deposited the tailings is a good place however.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

That mine looks to be a 'wildcat' operation ... we don't need no stinking permits... often dug while the property owner is away.
I'm giving up that fight, my whole shebang is going up 32"!
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Sure looking great Alan! Your footer blocks look firm, and I suppose they're not in danger of any deluges, right? Nice straight stringers. Wow, lotta bents, I had no idea!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

TW Bumping mine up at 24" did help but the pug doesn't even slow down when she jumps onto the site. Right now she runs under the track that hasn't been put on trestles yet. Bet she'll jump over then it's done. Put in 5 more feet today ending the straight stretch along the plateau. Busy next couple of days but hope to make more bents over the weekend when I have some time.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Alan your layout looks great!
You know it would be prototypical to bury your long trestle to make a long fill. Railroads did it all the time. Cheaper to maintain a pile of dirt than an expensive trestle.









Just a thought if you get 'bent' out of shape, you could make a dirt fill.
John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Oh yeah, labor was dirt cheap back then too!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)




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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Alan, as you create your post you can open the attached pics and embed them as we did with pics online. Copy the location and use the photo editor (the mountain postcard icon).
That's how I moved yours. I opened your attachment....
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Caught the prospector looking for another place to mine. And she brought a friend.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Past weekend I found hole under my deck steps next to my layout. Thought maybe it was a rabbit trying to make a home for winter. Looked out the window later to find my dog doing some mining. Caught the culprit dirty pawed.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Since I'm modeling Virginia City, which was everywhere riddled with busted mines and trial prospects of every size, maybe I could rent your dog and just follow behind with sloppy portals and planks and rusty metal bits...


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliffy;

A dachshund would be even better. They were bred to dig - for badgers. My Aunt Ginger even had one who dug through the bathroom door. He didn't like being penned in the bathroom for the night.

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Pugale did a pretty good job with the mine and my thoughts are along the same line as Cliffy's. Slapping together a mine "shaft" and portal from scraps of scale planking and trestle bents. Trestle bents are getting shorter as I move into the lower 1/3 of the trestle run so I now have lots of little (4-6 inches) pieces to play with.  Have found that "scrap" has lots of potential as I look towards future buildings.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

After reading the last comments I went out and measured the hole then checked my "scrap wood" box. Result was my first scratch built non-track related structure. And as Cliffy suggested it was a "slapped together" mine shaft entrance. A top view after the walls and second support were put together.








Looking down on the structure









External wall with supports









Then a quick check for scale. 1/24th scale figure fit fine and looks large enough to take a section of "O" scale track with a couple of ore carts in the future.









If anyone decides to get down to ground level this is how it looks.









After the glue dried I took the mine out to the site and with very little additional digging put it in place.


















Add a couple of handy rocks and the mine has a home. I ran out of duct tape before I sealed in the roof so a ziplock bag became the temporary weather resistant cover.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

R ya havin Fun yet Alan!!! Looks great

SD


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan

Great looking adit portal. You need to get John to take you to some old mines an get some mineralized rock to scatter around. Maybe you could get something from the TOTALWRECKER.

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Good to see the 'Free-lancing'. We don't need no stinking plans!

Having driven a tow truck/wrecker 40 years ago and having explored the old Total Wreck mine I coined the Totalwrecker as my nickname...
The mine has been bought and I'm not sure there is still access. My other source is where they want to put the Rosemont mine out in the Gunsight Pass area of Greaterville.
Been a while since I've gone out there, my buddy proved untrustworthy.
I can share what I have though...

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

In my On3 days I used to use Forced Perspective where the mine tunnel shrinks into the smaller distance view..... compressing 3' into 6"
Inner vertical timbers get progressively closer as they get 'farther away', then a bend and a light just around the corner to suggest activity deeper in.
Just a thought for a 'I'm bored' day...
John


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys;

Way back when I had track on the ground, my "mine" was a bit more basic. It was called the Flossie Girl Mine, and was named for the older prospector's donkey.



















The squirrels liked it, though. Came out to the railroad one day to find the mine shaft stuffed with acorns! The railroad had to be abandoned due to the preponderance of pine needles. Those needles tended to accumulate heavily on the track between operating sessions.

Great looking mine, Alan.

Have fun,
David Meashey


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

To look deeper into the mine someone would have to lay on the ground and look through the trestle  But I may do another small section that attaches at an angle to give it more depth. The Prospector was checking out the loose dirt in front of the mine, at least that is what the paw prints indicate. Considering a retaining wall so "tailings" don't end up on the track again.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Great job Alan! By that I include your design, use of on-hand materials, and just gettin' 'er done --- exactly like what was done in the 1:1 world, with the larger prospects and smaller mines. You're an inspiration Dude!

For your waste re-direct, they'd usually not build a retaining wall, too expensive for the temporary purposes of these smaller digs... So, do what the miners would do. You can get a 3' piece of HO flex track, cut away every other tie, and bend it to wherever they'd want to dump. Support it in any fashion that's easy to grab, and pour your waste from the centerline, letting it "repose" as it wishes. Just a thought.

Your trestle is beautiful!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Alan has a "dog tailing maker". . With un directed tailings control over direction.. ha ha & distance thrown..

I bet even with a short retaining wall.. tailings.. will fly beyond.. to rail. ..

Solid lower surface. .. more rocks... in area... remove supply from area... sleep on idear

Good luck..... I have same diggers here.. in my cats!!

LOL


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy
I was wondering what scale track I should use to duplicate a mine train. Thought HO might be too small but I'll give that a try. Will make a fairly sharp 90 degree out of the mine as the G scale track is only 12 inches away. Nice taking a break from "just" building trestle.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Miners liked a tram ga. wider than their feet. 
Rough mental exercise... HO is slightly under 3' in 1:48 thus 18" in G24 or close enuf. The rails I've seen were around 2-3" tall. 
John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Gentlemen

When talking about mines, every hole dug by a miner has a name. Very few if any mines have a tunnel. A "tunnel" has an opening to the surface at both ends, holes in most mines end at a solid wall of rock.

An "adit" is a horizontal opening from a surface to the mine workings. Alan's framing is a portal to an adit. Tracks will leave the portal to mill or dump.

A "shaft" is a vertical hole. It can be from the surface down to the workings, or it can be entirely in the mine without a surface opening. A shaft, exiting at the surface, usually has a head frame. Here the ore and waste is lifted up out of the mine and then dumped onto a car for transport to the mill or dump.

Some mines are accessed by an "incline". This is a hole that angles down. It is neither vertical or horizontal. Track will usually exit similar to the adit. There will probably be a motor to pull the cars up and out.

These are just suggestions to help describe your projects.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Nice Chuck. Might add "drifts," which are horizontal tunnels (oops) off an adit (or shaft). I've seen models of underground workings with those and even "galleries" (larger open volumes, often supported by squaresets).....

And while we're on vocabulary, here's another one I regularly forget (or ignore). The waste rock coming out of the mine is just that -- waste rock. Tailings, however (and I've been strongly corrected on this, my inner child still has a sore bottom), are the waste result of the milling process. So, a mine might have a waste trestle, where waste rock is dumped; but a mill might have a tailings pond, where remaining metals are settled out of the detritus.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Cliff

I thought about other terms, like "drifts and galleries", but left them out to keep it simple. Especially, since we are dealing for the most part the surface entrance to a mine. When you have a model mine in your mountain, we'll cross that bridge.

Chuck

There are stopes, ore shoots, manways, etc. 

Over the years, I had the privilege (?) of getting to go underground in a number of mines. They were all very interesting and I saw some unusual things. One was a rain storm half way down the shaft. We were collecting rock in a deep Mo mine west of Denver. I think the shaft went down 3000 to 4000'. The air temperature at the working face was 70 to 80 degrees F, with very high humidity. Unfortunately, the surface air temperature that day was about -5F. When the cold air decended down the shaft met the warm moist air rising up the shaft a rain cloud formed. So as we descended it got foggy about half way down and when we dropped down below the fog it started raining.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Never firget your hard hat in a mine.. down below.. n wadders too.. might git deep...

Alan.. get any work done between hail storms n lightning today?!!!

I'm floating .. on a hill...big wash runnin hard..


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Chuck... it is always an adventure to go in any mine... straight back.. or many hundreds of feet below ground.. where the mules lived.. and packed ore to main shafts.. course the mules stayed below.. never seeing lite of day.. only the ore saw daylite...


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Don't go in a mine alone...
I had to warn my buddy that he was walking on an old iron sheet. It didn't feel right and I got off it and then called to him. He stopped making so much noise and could hear his footsteps ring hollow.
Too many questionable back fill worries too. I've seen the Classical Straining timbers cracked from the over loaded chutes. I was careful not to touch them as we crawled around them.
There were other 'bores' to try!

Thunder this am. Sprinkles around noon, I see storms around me, but mostly sunny.
John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk

Hard hat is mandatory. Some time I'll tell you about coming up a rarely used shaft in a uranium mine. 

The mine geologist said,"we're going up fast, it will slow down, but we'll pop through."

Best wishes,

Chuck

More mine stories, when I remember them. There were some, I think!

John

I've been in mines where 6" I beams were used to keep the walls apart. In an unused drift some were bent into horseshoes. This was an asbestos mine in Quebec. Serpentine the host rock flows, slowly, under pressure. I've also seen this in salt mines. This was 55 years ago, so much for asbestos.

Just don't stay in an abandoned drift to long!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

One of the small side drifts I viewed deep below ground.... was just wide enough for a track and ore carts to move thru... not as tall as I am..
12" timbers used for bracing.. sides and across the top supports.. this was a short 20' - 30' diversion.. there was a cart back in maybe 10'.. but.. I did not enter...
The upper beams were bowed down.. some so much as too be cracked n split!! Cave in came to mind..

I was in a small group... 
....also I used to be part of a 4-H Adventure group in NV... rock climbing. . Repelling..caving trips.. once a month.. one week trips in Summer.... them were the days...

@@


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk

Working mines are one thing. Abandoned ones are a NO NO.

It is hard to believe that solid rock can flow, but given time some do.

Chuck

Cliff when you build your mine, don't abandon it. Your mountain might collapse.

Now back to Alan's thread. Sorry for the side track.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I agree.. the huge deep one toured.... went back to work several years ago..
.. I should include the tour was spearheaded by a geologist who was re-assessing the ore remaining.. during the period we went in..... mine from 1880's vintage era!!!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk

Some friends and I once went into a closed uranium mine in Utah for work. We were told to wear a mask as the dust was radioactive. When we left the mine we checked our masks with a counter. The radioactivity on the mask pegged the meter. We checked our breath and it was fine. The mine geologist didn't use a mask. His breath pegged the meter.

In mines things you don't see can also be a potential problem.

Chuck


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

chuck n said:


> There are stopes, ore shoots, manways, etc.


And my fave... Winzes!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Hard hats are a must. Learned that during a Heavy Rescue class when i was working the fire side. Avoid mines as critters like to live in them. Built retaining wall and got it in place before the rains started.








Rocks and dirt have been added to from the additional rain but much easier than brushing dirt off the tracks.








South end has a support posts on both sides with the idea that a road from the mine will wrap around the wall and then go under the bridge into "town" once it is built. (Mine track and ore cars placed on that road so ore cars could be dumped into waiting wagons?)








Some fill dirt needed to fill in along the bottom edge then re-ballast the track after the dirt has been removed from the track ties. All in all a fun project before I return to trestle building once this storm passes through.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ooops.. a minor pick moment?

Minin n whinin eh CJ!! @@

SLHD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Wish the weather guy had been wrong*

*Weather report last night:* Intermittent rain and heavy winds continue throughout the night hours, possibly sever in nature. Rain chances will decrease but winds could gust as high as 40-50 MPH in some areas near the mountains.

Welcome to "some areas"

The winds generally blow west to east in our area. Guess which direction is east.








Maybe the bridge provided a little too much wind resistance?








I figure it was a good thing that I hadn't tied down the track to keep it centered since I still need to treat the bents with water sealant before the track is secured (About every 10 feet or so?)








Bents with stringers in place stayed together but the section installed earlier in the week and without stingers broke off. Enough torque to break the braces that had been glued and pin nailed.








Trestle construction to be delayed until profane mutterings, placement of bents back on the footings, and track re-installation is completed.
"More fun" was not what came to mind when I first saw this but it could have been worse. Like the tree falling on the completed trestle.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Pure "Broad-sided" YA!!!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Thanks for posting the pics Alan, bummer though. Looks like some track got bent also?


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Ya shoulda parked an ore/rock train on it! That's what they used to do....
Better to replace bent joiners.
On the bright side; your mine is ok!
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Track was okay. That bad "bend" was actually where sections had been clamped together and the clamp didn't hold. Will see how track looks when back on the trestle.
The mine was protected by block walls and the miners stayed in out of the weather, so no ore to put into cars and anchor the bridge.
Wind has dropped so hope to start recovery mission tomorrow


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The Sky Islands weekly put out an Special Edition documenting the extensive damage caused by the storm. Because of the severe economic impact the help wanted poster commissioned by the Railroad was included in the Special. It offered pay for common labors at $18.00 per 70 hour week, double the normal rate, and experienced carpenters would receive $42.00 per week, more than double the normal rate. Workers would also receive room and board including 3 meals each day. Additional incentives were offered due to the limited time the offer would be in effect. A recruiting group was sighted talking to miners at a local mine.









Many local mines reported that they were shutting down operations in an effort to assist in the reconstruction efforts. One miner told reporters "Getting that train working again is good for all of us." as he ran past them towards the recruiting tent.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Haha! Nice story Alan!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks, Cliffy. With the mine being the first structure (completed anyway) I figured it was a good place for the first figures. The ladies will be going back to "Little Nickie's Saloon and Guest House" once it gets built. The railroad official will eventually find a home in one of my engines. Follow up story in the Sky Islands Weekly is that the trestle was rebuilt in record time and back on schedule for completion later this month.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Sorry to hear you trestle blew over. Was it damaged? I have the same problem here. The Desert winds blow my train off the tracks. All my bridges have sides. I am thinking of a Girder bridge though. It is going to be in two sections. . Going to have those Spindly / Frail looking supports.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

John, I would think your "new" bridge would be heavy enough to take the wind. I'm thinking about getting some "drop-in" clamps from Split Jaw and disconnect the bridges when it is supposed to be windy. I think that it was the torque of he bridge going over the dumped the rest of the trestle. Good thing I followed Dirk's advise and had "indexed" the bridge to the trestle with 2x2 blocks that fit between the side girders under the last couple of inches at each end of the bridge.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

All my bridges are real stout and stay in place with the Desert Winds. It is the train cars that get blown over.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Guess building a 10' high wind break around your site wouldn't get past the "You Want to Building What?" stage.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Need some suggestions. We had another bout of heavy winds (40 - 50 mph) and that same section of bridge and trestle went over. I figure that the weight and sail area of the bridge, which isn't protected by the plateau wall, is taking the trestle over. Need ideas how to anchor the bridge in place during wind events. Maybe cabled to anchor under ground level??


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan

I think that burying a anchor under the surface of the ground and anchoring the bridge to it is a good idea. That is what I'd do. 

Your bridge is fairly long, so I'd probably bury a 4x4 that is about half the length of the bridge 4-6 inches below the surface and then with eye bolts in the 4x4 attach wire up to lower crossbar at the bridge in several places along the length and then back fill.

Chuck


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks Chuck. Was thinking along similar lines with eye hooks under the bridge so cable could be removed during operations. 4-6 inch depth works well as that will put the 4x4 under the ladder system that the lower tracks rest on.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Nice day for upgrades!

Are you winding.. or .. loosing?!!
.. LOL..

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Not winding today but looking at possible combinations to anchor the bridge. Glad it wasn't that windy when we moved that sheet metal. Not sure if the HEAVY stuff that got moved later wouldn't have tried to sail too.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Long as the wind has a sail to catch... 

.. yea.. we did good !!

Moved more similar ..smaller lighter stuff today... done now..

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Put in two 4x4 anchors using treated wood. Was able to fit the ends into slots I carved out with a trowel then used 3 Lb. hammer to pack in dirt around them.









Drilled pilot holes then screwed in 3" eye bolts. Made temporary loops on the bridge stringers with UV resistant zip ties, attached the springs then used "S" hooks to the eye bolts. Some wind but not bad enough to really test the arrangement. I figured the springs would allow some play under windy conditions but not let bridge tip over (again). Feels pretty snug at this point.








Springs should allow trains to be run and them they can be removed for visits and eventual open house.
Thanks to Chuck and others that provided suggestions.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good!

Chuck


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

I have used a 3/4" angle iron in the ground 10-12" to support my trestle for several years
with great results. I use a hose clamp around one bent leg.
Trestle 3feet tall.
In my case I place cement under my trestle to prevent grass/weeds from growing under my trestle.
My trestle bents are not in the cement.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

If you set them up in a more vertical orientation, you can cover with pipe foam, melt indentations with a wood burning pen, attach arms, paint green and Voila` Saguaro!
John


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Den

Very nice approach, but Alan has different type of bridge, no bents.

Chuck


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I think Den's suggestion was to secure trestle bents rather than the bridge and I'm going to take a look at using that method on a couple of the bents to stiffen up that one section that wants to blow over. Will have to do some mod's as my bents sit on sliced pieces of paving blocks.
Step #1 find a place to buy 1/2 inch angel iron.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Interesting conversation. Here's my $.02. 

I see you've doubled the bents at the truss bridge's ends, but I think that in real life there would have been something more substantial, such as an abutment or pier. It could serve as the anchor to which you could secure the ends of the truss (and the adjacent trestle end). 

One approach might be to use 4 or 6 bents to form a pier; and in the middle of that cluster, drive Den's angle iron for the anchor. 

Another approach would be a masonry pier. I like the cast concrete method that Keven Strong wrote up in the recent GR, which results in a cut stone appearance. 

Again, it's just my 2 cents, fwiw.
Cliffy


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Extra bents supporting wood bridges are prototypical...
Your gunna see more stone or rock abutments in the East...
More wood structures in the West..

Alan... all that "steel" .. I have been unloading...
... anything come to mind that could be helpfull for You?

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy
I put indexing blocks on the double bents that fit snug inside the side supports of the bridge and I figure that is why trestle goes over as well as the bridge.
Dirk
You have any angle iron with 1/2 inch sides. I have some that are 1" but don't recall seeing any smaller so the steel snugs up to the bent like Denray has done.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I get my 1/2" iron at Home Disapointment, but no angels.... 
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

fyrekop said:


> Cliffy
> I put indexing blocks on the double bents that fit snug inside the side supports of the bridge and I figure that is why trestle goes over as well as the bridge.


Understood, but I was trying to describe an interface structure (a pier) between trestle and truss, that would be independently anchored, and serve as an anchor for the other two.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I have a hard time seeing angels at Home Depot as well. Or anywhere else for that matter. But maybe I'm just not living right?

My HD has lots of angle though.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dirk found some in his stash of metal and brought it by. Also came up with good idea of stacking rocks around where the feeder wires come out. Hide the wires and secure the trestle


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

That Dirk! He's got a million idears!
Give him a slap on the back for me!
I think we'll have the March meet at your house. If you need any more I've got a couple of sticks too.
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

By March I should be running the 3 mains and possibly the spur line that goes behind the tree. Getting windy so tonight may be a test of the bridge tie-downs.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Totalwrecker said:


> That Dirk! He's got a million idears!
> Give him a slap on the back for me!
> I think we'll have the March meet at your house. If you need any more I've got a couple of sticks too.
> John



you guys have meets down there ? When is the next one ? 

JJ


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

JJ, When Chuck comes to town, we try.
3 years ago Chuck and Dirk ran on my track and Alan came along.
Last 2 we drove down to Dirk's place to take in the dream and check progress.
This year my track is out of commission as I elevate, but Alan's is getting ready, so I'm inviting us there!
I'm sure you will be welcome to come too....
John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Totalwrecker said:


> JJ, When Chuck comes to town, we try.
> 3 years ago Chuck and Dirk ran on my track and Alan came along.
> Last 2 we drove down to Dirk's place to take in the dream and check progress.
> This year my track is out of commission as I elevate, but Alan's is getting ready, so I'm inviting us there!
> ...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

All welcome just need dates. No plans to be traveling so it should all be good. So far bridge is still in place and it is a bit windy here today. Keeping fingers crossed.

Alan


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The date kinda depends on Chuck... he's our catalyst.

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Heavy winds and some rain over the past couple of days but bridge and trestle are still intact. Used the time to cut pieces for 20 more trestle bents. If I measured correctly I need 30 total to complete the trestle. There are 85 in place now. 
Looks like I'll meet the "Chuck's Coming" deadline of "Sometime around March"


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Cool!, We missed you last year, you need to work on priorities! 
He times it for the Tucson Garden RR open house show....
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

yep


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Wish I could be there!
Alan, you mentioned there would be more windiness, how's your bridgework fared?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys

We've got a conflict with the Tucson open house weekend. We will try to get down shortly before or after that weekend. As soon as we figure out what and when we are doing things next winter, I'll send down some dates in early March and/or late Febriary and see what shakes out. It shouldn't be too long.

Chuck


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Dang Chuck, just as we've ironed out Alan's priorities, now yours pops up!
At least we are flexible.....
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy,
The bridge's anti-wind system has held up so far and winds gusted to around 40 mph with steady winds at 30 mph. Was a good test


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Excellent!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Merry christmas 

jj


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Sporadic wind testing continues at "Bent Factory", nearing the fabled....Last Bent .. connection...
..have it from a singing bird the upper line is close to an opening ceremony... Soon at a layout near us!!
Happy New Years...keep making sawdust...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Happy New Year to all. Looks like prior planning has paid off. When I started this build all I had was 1/29 but figured I'd have guests so planned for larger. Now have 1/29, 1/24, and my brother bought me a Bachmann Big Hauler 2-4-2 for my birthday. All good. 
Back to thread.
As Dirk mentioned I have been getting closer and closer to joining the trestle to the lower ladder system. Hoped to get it done before 2016 but weather was wetter than usual here. After last storm and before the next comes in this afternoon.....








There are mountains in those clouds getting whiter. 
Anyway I managed to get it done before more than a few sprinles came down much to the appreciation of the Construction inspector wondering if I'd make it.









Last bent measured, cut to grade and in place. Not that it was planned but the bottom cross members rest on the footer. Then a final grade check before I attached the stringers to the ladder.








Used the nail gun to put the Trex support in place and then glue and nail the stringers in place.








Put the last few pieces of side braces in place and I'm almost ready to put the track back and do a test run. I need to make some shims for the first 24" of the ladder because it went in at a 1.5 degree grade rather than 1.8 which would have been spot on.
Next step after shims is to build a wooden retaining wall and fill in dirt around the last 3 bents to match height with the block retaining wall.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

That is the same level I used to lay out all the Road Bed on the NR&WGRR. Only it was in a different envelope. It was in a sears envelope with the sears name. The buttons are identical. 

JJ


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm betting its white out now!!
... Feel like I changed countries...a new locale...

...then again..still have colorful trains passing in morning light..look different against a white background now...

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I bought it at Sears  No way I could have done the trestle without it. Also handy when doing "To Do's" for the wife


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Mountains on both sides of the valley all white this morning. I think the snowbirds brought some with them so they could remember why they come south. Was going to take a photo but then the clouds came back in.








Not "real snow" for most of the members from northern climes but it really does snow here. Ground not cold enough for it to stay long.








Maybe I'll get enough for a photo of tracks covered. Then I'll go get a cup of coffee and it will be gone.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

SD90WLMT said:


> I'm betting its white out now!!
> ... Feel like I changed countries...a new locale...
> 
> ...then again..still have colorful trains passing in morning light..look different against a white background now...
> ...



You got snow down there ? Lots of it? My sister is coming in from Michigan They came across 80 to Des Moins then 35 down to Wichita and across 54 to Dalhart. There were blizzard conditions around Flagstaff So they went down to Los Cruses Now they are coming up 10 to get here. They have been trying to avoid snow. 

JJ +


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Driving thru southern AZ is gonna be white JJ...tho there should be enough traffic on roads to keep it beat down...I have snow on the ground..not melting...adding to currently..temp right at 32... As all ways..drive safe...hope you see your family soon...


Alan is just getting teased...!! Poor guy...

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Knows about driving in snow as I used to ski in the Sierras around the Tahoe. Usually fun even when snowing but once I got home no need to shovel the driveway in San Jose.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

GaZing thru thinning snow clouds...I can barely start to see your white mountains Alan.

Some odd 45 - 50 miles away... Yep...White they are...

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Storms have passed for this week at least so more work got done. With the last bent in place, trestle attached to the ladder system, and shims in place it was time to work on the retaining wall along the east side of the inner most - elevated loop. As the saying goes "If you can't be good be lucky" I was and the closed end (north) of the retaining wall matched up with the bent and stringer when I set it on the paver footing.








Just one small shim needed under the wall to have the srtingers touching and also level. The end piece and first section of wall was made in the shop then the end wall trimmed to meet the concrete retaining wall.








I put in "weed block" cloth along the concrete blocks and wall to limit the washing away of fill dirt through the openings in the block wall. 








Trimmed back the weed block and ready to continue the wood retaining wall along the east side. About 10 feet more needed to reach the point where the track curves towards the pedestrian bridge. Wall beams have offset ends so each 18" section can be dove-tailed in when it gets to the curved track. 18" section length was determined by width of table saw bed. Trying to keep wall 5" off center of track


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yep... Dust off the winters leaves...lets run Alan!! 

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thinking about getting one of those track sweepers from Reindeer Pass. My stuff is from the mesquite tree and mostly along the north and east side.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Naptowneng just bought one, and has been using it to great effect. If I'm understanding correctly, it cleans the railheads of oxides while performing the cleaning/sweeping.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Got a good write-up in GR magazine and I watched the video. Now I need to buy a MOW flat car ro mount it on.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

If you only need to sandpaper your rails (vs. leaf-sweeping), you might be able to find a way to gravity-mount a sanding block beneath a pair of trucks.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy, the easiest way was to purchase a LGB track cleaning engine. Has flashing lights and everything.
Clear weather the past couple of days so more work on the retaining wall along the east side of the layout where the elevation loop leaves the flats (and 2 outer loops at ground level) and heads up to the start of the trestle.
Retaining walls are set about 5" from center of the track so all of the "G Scales will have plenty of clearance.








Didn't mention it before but the wall is made from cedar fence slates ripped to 11/16ths so they square up. Was fun sorting through slates at Lowe's to find 5 that had the same thickness. Stack marked as 11/16th but there are slight variations of 1/16th either way. Support "beams" are from cedar 2x6 ripped into 1 1/4 inch slats then cut in to 10" lengths. One end cut at 45 degrees so they were easier to pound into the ground. Tallest point on 
the wall was 7" so at least 3" in the ground which should give pretty good support. Lower the wall the deeper the supports.








Just under 14 feet from tallest part, 7", where it meets the trestle and the lowest 1 1/2" at the end. Used Thompson's Waterseal with UV protection which darkened the colors and hopefully extend the life of the wall.








Wall timbers were glued together with Titebond III then "nailed" with 1 1/2" 18 gauge pins for a tight fit. Support beams attached the same way after being put in place about 7" apart.
Today I finished putting feeder wires into conduit and hooking them up to the track. Once that was done, and tested for connectivity, the temporary piece of Trex was removed and the inner wall built. The top is level with the concrete block and drops down to 1 1/2" like the outer wall. Because of the shorter distance and being on the inside of the curve I used 12" timbers rather than 18".
Need to move "spare" dirt from the pile to back fill between the ladder and the wall, add a layer of ballast, sweep the tracks, and finally run trains.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Debris from the tree is easy to see in that last photo and that was taken after a raked up a bunch of it. Those little "twigs" get into everything.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

We could handle those in a jiffy!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Wires into conduit and attached to track, inner retaining wall in place, moved dirt from other places on site to fill around the ladder, and finally put down 4 buckets (HD orange buckets) of ballast.
Looking east from people bridge and SplitJaw "walk on" track.








North along east side of the site to lower end of trestle








Looking south from where the ladder system and trestle meet.








Did some track sweeping with large paint brush after this was taken. About a 6" pile of those little twigs that drop off mesquite tree and still didn't get all of them. Calling Reindeer Pass regarding track sweeper. 
Dirk: you can use my dryer, no need to use your track for a clothes line or was it too warm for the flannel shirt that day?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Flannel shirt off now.. by noon .. unloaded 60 new coco brown blocks fer viewing wall...Red truck handy at last...lite winds..some scattered clouds in Dragoon


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Back on track...looking homey there Alan...
Needs a Shay or Steam loco with flats on a test run... slow orders from a Shay...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

In the spirit of making my fellow, and lady, hobbyists feel welcome I arranged a small bit of scenery to make the snowbirds that come to Arizona for the winter feel at home.








I also discovered that the site and Google Chrome don't work well together inserting photos into the threads. Firefox works fine.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Gotta have a trestle.. Looks really cool dusted with Snow! Yea!!
.. Speak in of.... AZ has been covered in White Camoflage.. Again!!
...More than yesterday even...
Coco in hand..heater on..Sun up..!! 22 for my low..

Be warm n safe everyone..

Thanks for scenery Alan...

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Found the electrical issue and swapped the leads that came from the site to the power pack not elevation loop and trestle work fine. Also tried my hand at video and YouTube so I hope it works.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Wow, dramatic music and everything, great work Alan!

I sure love that pedestrian bridge, what an elegant solution.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Entering the next level in the hobby!

"Houston...we have Video", .... From our live feed in Sierra Vista!!

Way ta go Champ!!!

... Back to the ... What ever your all busy doing....

SD


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Way to go Alan, looks great.
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Pedestrian bridge replaced the need for removable bridges so wife could get to her roses. Split Jaw "walk on track" working well with plenty of traffic from gardener, tree guy, dogs, etc. Only issue is cleaning really small ballast rocks that find their way along the rails. Next planned video is when DCC is in place and I can run trains in different directions. Or if Dirk brings over some battery powered loco's. Maybe in early March


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

With trains running under track power on all three main lines it is time to replace some of the temporary supports along the trestle. With the west end eventually connecting to yet-to-be-built mountains it is time to replace the not-to-scale 2x6 "bridge" that passes over the outer loop.








Finding a commercially available bridge wouldn't be a big deal if the track crossing over was straight. However it isn't.








If I had access to a proper cabinetry shop I could have the bridge beams bent to fit the curve but that isn't an option. What I came up with is not historically accurate but may work so I built two laminated beams similar to those used in modern construction.
I ripped a redwood 2x6 into 1/8 inch strips and formed them against 2 pieces of curved track that matched the area to be bridged. I put a couple of spacers between the tracks so the bottoms of the plastic ties matched the top and bottom of the strips. Two strips along the outside of the curve and two along the inside. Glue well and clamp TIGHT. Add strips to each side when glue dries.








Next photo is fuzzy so no need to adjust your screen but it does show how the spacer tracks were set.








When glue was dry I removed the clamps and had the curved beams I needed.
















Beams need to be cleaned and ends squared off but should work. Have to figure out the placement of the cross members along the curve but that is for another day


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## harvey (Dec 30, 2008)

Hello Alan,
When this snowbird landed it was snowing thirty miles north of Phoenix!! No snow in southern Alberta and yesterday it was 10C so I imagine there is now no snow at all, especially on the trestles. But, thank you for your kind consideration and the excellent photographs.
Cheers.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Mini glue-lam, nice!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

With bridge built I had to reset several of the trestle bents and stringers. I also cut "tie protectors" like those on the large bridge. Took several tries to get the inner and outer curves right but cedar fence boards are reasonably cheap. And it was good practice.








When I pulled the track before putting on the water seal it was east to see the effects of the sun on the stringers to the right of the bridge. A couple of coats of Thompson's UV resistant water sealer on the stringers and bridge then track back in place.








I can see places that need a better coating of Thompson's but other issues took precedence. Eventually all the trestle will be sealed both for the protection and the color it gives the wood. I took off the "wind restrains" under the bridge to see how it looks ready for trains and visitors.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Locos and cars lubed..Ready to roll real easy..greased..or oiled..
Rock n Roll time buddies..
..carry on

Head count soon. .. raise your hands if n your headed to Alans First Annual Steam-up...
In March..ask him!!

:<}
Hee.he


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought it was a sparkup? My traveling goose (battery) wanted to stretch its wings.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Darn....
.. a "Fly-UP", ... then
..bring your own fly swatter...

What do we do with a Goose?


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If the temprtatures stay the way they are, we'll eat it, it will be roasted.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Snow in AZ.. in March!
.. Yikes...


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been snowed on in April in Arizona. Actually it was a cold rain in the bottom of THE canyon. The snow line was a couple of hundred above our river camp.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I don't clear the snow...winter..or Freezing calendar here till mid April...all clear there after...better than mid June in N. NV..where I came from...


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Let's hope for perfect weather; monsoons, thunderstorms and maybe a tornado. Seen several, but I could always add one more.

C


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm expecting another Indian Winter, always comes after our false summer!
Chuck what time should I meet you at our usual place?
John


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey John;

Does Indian Winter include lots of Apache Fog?

Have fun & stay warm,
David Meashey


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I'll have a hot plate near the power station so we'll have steam no matter how the loco's are powered. Also a cooler handy. Picked up a couple of HLW couches yesterday so I have at least 2 cars for all the engines. Battery can go one way and track power the other for the video


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

By description..Indian Winter does not appear until after the official start of Spring... Indian Winter bringing in a very cold cycle..after it warms..
As our group typically meets ..pre Spring..I let you guys jostle this one around ..
I'll just hope for a clear day ...with little or no winds present..warm friendship indeed..!!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

SD90WLMT said:


> By description..Indian Winter does not appear until after the official start of Spring... Indian Winter bringing in a very cold cycle..after it warms..
> As our group typically meets ..pre Spring..I let you guys jostle this one around ..
> I'll just hope for a clear day ...with little or no winds present..warm friendship indeed..!!


If you guys are going to have some kind of a gathering Let me know I will try and come down there 

JJ


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

JJ..the afternoon of March 7..
I'm guessing between noon and 1 to start at Alans..
Watch here might be best..
Chuck meets TW ... then they meet me at the Hwy. 10 to hwy 90 South leg...follow me to Alans...I know route!
You could meet us there also...

Dirk


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

John J, it's a long drive but you are very welcome to join our insanity. I am looking forward to seeing everyone. Arrival time can be anywhere from dawn to dusk. I have analog DC and the track cleaner is worklin.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk

I just talked to TW we are meeting at the Vail QUIK MART about 12:15.

Chuck


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

John. Dirk is referring to the Love's at exit 302 on I-10 for a mileage reference. My place is about 35 miles south of the exit and all on multi lane paved roads with 45 - 65 MPH speed limits.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

With all loops ready to run on DC or battery (DCC will be coming later in the year, I hope) I've been doing some cleanup work on the site and surrounding areas. While I haul construction materials around and work on the garden areas, the MOW Crew has been hard at work making sure track is free of oxidation and obstructions.






I've seen several clouds of dust coming up along the mine loop and small debris from the mesquite tree flying through the air as the Crew works but I have yet to figure out how Mike from Reindeer Pass fits inside that little car and is still able to turn the crank so fast.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Alan, it's been fun watching you go so far so quickly, wow, it all looks great!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

If the Dust Devils bother you, there is a spray on product developed by the military for dirt runways ... Gorilla Snot is the name.... 
The 55 gal can turned me off....
John


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

When I was a kid, they sprayed oil on the dirt roads.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dust was from where rains washed dirt over the rails or I put down new ballast. Did a walk around and there was only a few small pieces of leaves left and they were all laying parallel to the rails. Starting to think about how to landscape the site, and methods to build mountains and tunnels. Looking at some structures to bring the dirt to life. First building will probably be a saloon.  All in due time


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Had a great day yesterday running trains when Dirk, TW John, John J, and Chuck came over. First time large engines and longer trains were running. Great fun as we discovered area where I need to do some work. More to follow when I get the video's and pictures put together. Thanks again for all that came. And the rain even held off until last night.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I know Dirk had FUN..got home late an tired..means I played hard I guess!
Enjoyable to watch some of my own equipment rolling along rails!!
Alan is a great host!!
Met JJ over the weekend.. Nice to add one more MLSer to the growing group in AZ.. A number of local friends joined in the event...

Snowed last nite..in the desert !! Mine melted early...

We'll need to start gathering more often then once a year soon.

Thanks everyone!!
SD - DMSRy


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Yesterday must have been a good day for operations in several locations. I finally got this wee beastie running well, so that made me a happy steamer.











Best wishes to all.

Keep on Steamin',
David Meashey


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Alan!! It was a great time and I enjoyed exercising my Traveling Goose and my ABT (adult beverage train). Pictures will follow when I get a chance to download them.

I'm looking forward to seeing how my REVO works when I get back to Sun City. I've never had the problems with the links to the two trains like I had down there. If there is a problem with the REVO is has to be in the transmitter, as both the Goose and the Mikado had the same problem. Or is is something in the air of southern Arizona?

Chuck

Some pictures, others will be in the travels of my goose thread.

The ABT




























Contrary to Urban Legend, there were no problems when the trains and goose approached and passed JJ. I've run my trains at several different locals and there never was a problem. I think that he has been unjustly accused!!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I had a good time too. Alan has done a nice job. We all had a good time and it was nice to meet JJ.








Well I was going to add JJ to the pic,but he turned out a tad shy... actually being courteous dodging the pic...








Dirk holds court on the far side....
















OK I double posted this one... 
Thanks Alan, it will be fun to 'help' you grow this one.
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Chuck's Traveling Goose was the first visitor to run on the site. That kept the spectators busy as Dirk started pulling boxes out of his truck. As more boxes came out I ran the Piko Mogul with a couple of HLW long couches on the inner loop to provide bells, whistles and chuffing sounds. Wayne's grandson (see little feet on top of deck railing) has "Choo Choo" down pat.








I think TW John must have asked John J who was running this circus and the answer was a finger pointed at Chuck who was replacing the Goose with his Mikado and "Adult Beverage" train.








Note that Chuck had sort of taken over the easiest place to place equipment on the tracks. One of my concerns was the grade of the trestle but the Beverage Train quickly put those to rest as it pulled the grade easily.








With Dirk's consist in place and connected, trains were running on all three loops. 10 amp Power Pack ran Dirk's train and the Mogul with lighted cars with out hitch. Missed the shot of all three together going around the curve past the people bridge. 
The most enthusiastic spectator is mostly hidden as he stood on the deck railing but one hand can be seen pointing at the Beer Train as it rolls around the ridge above the mine area. the Mogul was down in the mine out of view :-(
A big thanks to everyone that came. I got a lot of good advise about where "fixes" were needed and several options how it could be done. Already looking forward to next year and having some scenery.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Congratulations Alan, and thanks for the pics.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan, Dirk, John, and John

I'm back in Sun City. No problems with the link between the REVO and the Goose, or the Mikado, up here in heat and dust. The visability isn't nearly as good as it was in Sierra Vista.

Alan if you are thinking about some remote, radio controls, I think this is something to investigate. Maybe some of the members of the TGRS could come out and try their systems.

Thanks again for a great afternoon and it is an honor to be the first visitor to operate on the SKY ISLAND RR. Hopefully the first of many visits.

Chuck


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I had a great time. Went down to Dirk's house and saw what he was building. He has a real nice place to build. Spent Monday at Allen's and had a great time there. I went to Tombstone On Tuesday and then to Bisbee I really enjoyed Tombstone.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

No one working on their trains?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Cats n I are hiding from wind storm....
.. decided I should look for a wind gauge to read my winds here. Never matches weather reports....


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dirk

I have a portable wind gauge. ADC by Brunton. It does temperature and wind speed among other things.

Too bad we didn't talk about it Monday as I had it with me. Here is a link to the device.

http://www.backcountry.com/brunton-...gclid=CJzN_sSbvMsCFVKVfgodgy8Dpw&gclsrc=aw.ds

This one you have to hold. There are weather stations that are mounted and radio the data back to a base station. Oregon Scientific is one manufacturer.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yea... I can go with a permanent unit mounted on a mast I think.. great help Chuck!

I'm gunna start calling US...
.. " The Arizona Hole in the Wall RR Gang"..

D


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Alan, did open his gate "hole in the wall" so we could drive through and park near the layout.

Chuck


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Chuck, 
I'm going to check with a couple of people that belong to the local model RR club. They run NCE -DCC in their building but I can't remember if it is hardwired. I figure the Army was testing something and causing the issue.
I have been working on the videos from last Monday and on one of them is a conversation between you and TW regarding wedge snowplows. Apparently the Arizona weather gnome heard you and the next morning I woke up to this.








Glad I'm at 4600 feet and not 6000. Not considered "real" snow by many people but unusual for southern AZ in March.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

That is a great picture. But I have trouble with "GRAY" days like that. When it is cloudy like that for more than two days I get real cranky. I can't work on the RR cause when things don't go right I get pissed. 

Then the sun comes out and I am all better


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Do you have "Blue eyes" JJ????

Been here long nuff Alan to see that pretty white dusted look in April even...
..Gunna start warming here.. Steady .. Real soon...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Glad our "Spark up" was nice and clear


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Senior Moment: I plan to begin working on the layout mountains but can't find the video showing the paper mache method using chicken wire and mortar (I think) Though I had bookmarked it but no luck. Any and all help appreciated


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Found it


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

BIG project of Monumental Porportions ahead there Buddy!!!
..should bring your layout into a fresh perspective for our visits ..eh!!

Mud throwing Parties ahead!! Call the AZ Hole in the Wall RR Gang!!
We can watch...or .supervise..or. Work..oh my!!

Hehe...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

OK It is Saturday morning what you going to work on today on your layout?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Picked upu wife from airport on Sat and then sinus's acted up and haven't been outside since


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Only 68 here today. How you guys doing down there?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Been windy the past couple of days and with patio furniture moving around figured it wasn't good time to run trains. Less wind but more clouds this morning. Hoping to get in some mountain building time next week


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Look for a warm weekend, but still windy.
John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

It was Windy the early part of the week. Not to bad last two days. Suppose to be back in the 80s Sat and there after. .

Have not done anything with my layout. Been Unloading steel Crates. The base I want to use for the front porch. One may be for a Gazebo. 

What I don't use of the steel side which are a frame with a thin skin, I cam use may plasma cutter to cut out buildings. 

Broke a hose on the Hoe. Waiting for sun to come up so I can go out and take it off. Have a new one made. 

JJ


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

No one noticed...
I've been hiding!!
... Lucky me...
..had a 2 week cold...I'm just sure it'll move on this week..
Cabin fever n sore together sucks..
Feel better today..hope to stay that way...

Hope all my Buddies enjoy Spring weather ahead!!

SD


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Just got back from Tombstone. Took my Sister down to see it. We had a great time.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Sounds awesome JJ...western day...shoot'em ups..rides..dinner in a motel...great place to play....


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

You guys ever go to "Old Tucson"? A dear departed friend lays there (V&T derrick car, in ruins). Not to mention the famous V&T Reno, which burned there...


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Gosh.... It's been maybe 17 - 18 years since I've been there..took lots of pix too...
I live here now... Have not returned...trip was prior to moving here..

Sorry..yes..I member them..poor wrinkled loco..scorched black!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

CliffyJ said:


> You guys ever go to "Old Tucson"? A dear departed friend lays there (V&T derrick car, in ruins). Not to mention the famous V&T Reno, which burned there...



I have been there several times. Some times I go there to kill time because I am waiting for Parts that are not going arrive till the next day.
I enjoy that place so much The other place is the Pima Air Museum. Two of my favorite Places. 

The Derrick Car is out front. 

It is really sad that so much of it burned. 

But there is a lot left. The Mission Church from Fort Petticoat , a Audie Murphy movie is there. So is the place that was the gun smith's shop in Eldrado, 

The stabe where John Wayne spanked His wife, Maureen O Hara in the movie Mc Cllintock. 

There still is a lot to see.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Would love to go there some day, and also visit the Hole in the Wall gang!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy, If you wonder down this way after you put down all those "edgers" drop me a note so I'll be home. All welcome and I'm only 16 miles from Tombstone. Been learning about building mountains with burlap and quickset so at least some of the concrete blocks are covered. Nothing like your monster mtn. however


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ugh..ooH..look what dog drug in...
.. the master returns...
All this off topic yakkity [email protected]@!!

Was thinking you ..well..dissapp ea red?!

Not
.hi buddy...grabbed blocks in your near by HD..

Need more. .. be back soon.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Not disappeared Dirk, just a quiet reader of all the posts by you guys.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yea... don't member my buddies traveling calendar..
Head clearer again tho... I can think now!


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Got A little rain up here. Was a slow drizzle for a while One small splattering this morning. 

You guys getting anything down there ?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Did yea..... 0.1" in Dragoon..nite n day
Blustery winds..great sailing day now

Just Spring...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah we got it, got bored with it, and sent to you guys.

Greg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg,

Thanks for the pass through. Here in Sun City, it had been 70+ days since some rain!

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Rain ..2 days in a row...
..like ducks..lining up...
Nutha tenth...cold n damp in some parts of AZ!

Might be a good day for a "block run"..!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Light rains around Sierra Vista this evening made for 3 pretty rainbows. It is keeping the base coat of burlap and "Quickcrete" Topping damp. Kicking around form of to-be mountain located at the entrance to Hole-In-The-Wall and one end of the trestle. Track height + 12 inches + 6 - 8 inches of mountain top. Basic slope to top of mountain from plateau and outer wall is 45 degrees. Will post pic's once I have more supports in place


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Thinning Greg keeps getting bored in Cali...
He keeps sending rain Eastward to us in AZ...sunny southern AZ..now dumped upon!
.. Thunder..rain..hail..

Thankx Greg!! LOL


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Been running trains! Did 2 Bachmann C19's with QSI Titan and the latest "emulator" steam file... great... the stock speaker is crap though, distorts under bass chuff.

Replaced the speaker and running... 

Running again today...

Greg


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ya leave room for RC n batts?


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Would love to be out there, rollin in the sand, catchin rays...
Watchin trains...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, I fill the space with important stuff:
speakers - big
weight
good sound 
DCC



Greg

p.s. Cliff, if you go to the desert and roll around in the sand, they lock you up or put you in the hospital... it's not like a california beach!... oh maybe you meant my place, well, the beach is 5,000 feet away from the railroad, so you have to drive (or walk)... it's actually beautiful today, the buxom neighbor came out in short shorts and a halter top a few minutes ago... wow..




SD90WLMT said:


> Ya leave room for RC n batts?


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Greg--


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cruise wasn't all sandy beaches and ladies in bikini's. There were trains. And train history. When was the first Transcontinental RR finished?








About a one hour ride from the East side to the West side

















Not sure about mosquitoes in the engine but cars were nice.








And for a better view







This narrow gauge train also hauls freight after the tourists leave
And for cog RR fans:








These are electric and run off hydroelectric power generated along the Canal. The cog system is needed to climb or descend the 20'+ height changes between the locks.








The cog system doesn't go from one side of the locks to the other, only on the grades. And since there are several ships in the locks at the same time they need to turn around.








And have MOW equipment








The ships are under power but the mules are needed to keep them in the center of the canal.








According to the announcer at the lock control office this ship had less than 18" on either side of the hull.








Further up the coast in Costa Rica we took a ride on a train used to ship bananas to the port. The passenger cars were from 1932.


























No windows but we lucked out and no mosquitoes. Did see some wild life, howler monkeys and a 2 toed sloth. 








So now back to our trains.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

What a great trip! Thanks for sharing .


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Time for a AZ meet...welcome home Guys!


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

How cool! Thanks Alan.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

If you Tucson guys have a meet can Us from over the hill and far away come? Let me know when.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Always welcome when you are over this way John. Just let me know as wife and I are traveling some over the next couple of months.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Most of extended trips are over so back to work on the site. After doing a separate post regarding access to track and trains inside tunnels I've started building the mountain located at the entrance to the Hole-In-The-Wall aka mine entrance. I'm using the method that MJMtrains (screen name) did a U-Tube video of. Sort of like paper-mache but using burlap, chicken wire, re-bar and concrete.








This is the west end of the double track tunnel and the chicken wire and re-bar are still visible. After the first layer was in place I found that added height was enough to support a section of track that transitions from the trestle to the ladder system. I'll add more concrete under the 2 pieces of metal that the track now rests on for a good solid base. Before putting on the concrete soaked burlap the frame was a bit shaky but now is fairly solid. The wire will be covered with about 1/2 inch of concrete / mortar mix.








South side where track transitions from trestle to "mountain". Wire in place to form the sides and top of the tunnel 12" back from the entrance.







Track into mine area will travel through a tunnel to the right. Once tunnels are in place, the rest of the mountain can be built. Hope to blend the mountain into the large rock that initially formed the entrance to the canyon leading to the mine.








The first two base sections for the large mountain in the northwest corner of the site are in place, with 3 more to go. Based on input from members on my other thread, each section will be 6' with a 36" opening between sections for access to both levels. The width of the opening was calculated by laying on the wall and reaching for a car I placed on the upper level track. The base of the concrete mountain will be built on top of the blocks forming the outer wall and those separating the tracks on the right side of the photo. The small piece of track on the right is part of the loop that circles the top of the mine area and will be "cut" into the side of the mountain rather than tunneled. 
Off and on again monsoon rain is slowing construction but helping the concrete to cure better.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Looks like a neat method Alan, great start!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks Cliffy. The puttering continues. Working in AM,s before the thunder, lightning and rain starts in the afternoon. Typical southeastern Arizona weather except this is wet heat in stead of dry heat. As the mountain takes shape, not always as planned, the structure is stiffening as additional strips of burlap/concrete are in place and drying.
The following photos are of the 3/4 finished base coat of the lower half of the mountain.








I'm trying to blend the real rocks at the west end of the mountain into the structure by forming chicken wire behind them and pushing the burlap/concrete against the back of the rock to dry.








South side with the tunnel mouth meeting the trestle. Some of the burlap is showing to the right of the tunnel mouth but this is the base coat. The two pieces of steel that supports the track from the trestle to the wooden extension of the ladder system is now part of the roof of the lower tunnel. 








East end of the lower tunnel and framework of tunnel to/from the mine area. West side of inner tunnel wall is in place. The mountain will blend into the concrete wall to the right once I have the east side of the tunnel coated. This unfinished area will also be blended into the wall at about a 45 degree angle to form the east wall of the mountain.








North side of the mountain with the lower tunnel framed. The wooden stack in the center of the tunnel wall will come out once everything is dry. Wire mesh to the left side is part of the wall that opens onto the plateau.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

More chicken wire, burlap and concrete in place. Getting more done in the mornings before it gets to warm.
I tied in the south wall of the plateau to the mountain. That wall was the first place I tried this method to build mountains. Looks like the new pieces are blending in well.








The line where the two joined shows what a couple of months in our sun will do. Once base is in place I'll try and get the top coat on over a couple of days rather than months.







East side of the mountain sloping down to the top of the plateau. The are a couple of grade stakes behind the short "cliff" that will have "strata" carved in. Similar to many of the mountains in this area. Exposed wire forms the slope that frames the upper north portal.








West side of mountain is tied into the portal frame and butts up to the plateau wall. Re-bar shows the slope that frames the upper portal.








East and west slopes of the north side of the mountain frame the upper portal. Concrete mix will fill in to the edge of the ladder system before and 10 inches past the portal. Dirt that was there has eroded over the past few monsoons. Guessing that it will take a dozen or so large strips of burlap and 3 or 4 buckets of concrete mix to finish the lower half of the mountains base coat.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Heard a little bird rumor ..mountains are growing and thickening down south!!
Can even work at nite now..tremendous amounts of lightning all nite..easy to see tunnels in dark!!
Crete on!!!

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Bottom half of base coat in place at north end of the mountain.








East side upper and lower entrances. Chicken wire and concrete walls will continue around the mine area until meeting the stacked rocks that make up the southwest corner of the plateau to hide all the concrete blocks.








Northwest side of entrance. Exposed chicken wire will be covered with top coat concrete to blend it into the rest of the mountain. A couple of pieces of scrape burlap to cover the small an area at the bottom and not structural in nature so it will be covered when I do the top of the mountain. Going to put top coat along the inside of the tunnel entrances and practice cutting in strata and coloring before the top goes in place.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Looking good Alan, Another concrete Mountain Man, I enjoy your progress.
Dennis


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks Dennis. Slow but sure. Tried my hand at putting on top coat around double track tunnel entrances. Finding out that getting the proper consistency so it stays in place along vertical walls is more art than science. Used your concept of "finishing" 10 inches inside the entrance. Made sure chicken wire and re-bar is covered from most viewing angles. Hope no one decides to stick head in tunnels to look up at the ceilings


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm Tall...is their room inside so I won't bump my head?!!

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

The mountain on the northwest corner should have plenty of head room. Top of mountain should be about 4' to 5' above the outer main lines to allow easy access for the upper loop as it climbs from the valley around the mesquite tree.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

The "Hard Hat Lines"


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Alan what type of cement are you using?
I use type S it is stickyer
Dennis


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dennis. I'm using a mixture of mortar and topping mix, about 50% each with the burlap. The mortar mix results in a smoother finish than plain topping mix. Will take a look at S type for the top coat since sticky is a good thing on shear cliffs


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

How much deep details are you looking for on your mountains, or you going for the smoother look?
Dennis


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I'm sort of copying the type of mountains we have in this area. Lots of smooth slopes with cliffs in the middle. Also strata lines are often at 30 to 45 degree angles. The is one mountain near us (along 83 outside of Whetstone for those that know the area) that my wife wants to copy. It looks like a cartoon octopus with sloped rounded head that drops off at the back. For my mountain there are sharp deep cliffs along the south side and sloped areas to the north.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Top coat of concrete away from track could be 1 - 2 inches so not as deep as yours are


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

A one to two inch thick are my most of my molds then another 1/2"-1" added to back of the casting, on yours where you have a good amount of vertical walls. There is an additive that can be added to cement to stick 1-2" on a vertical wall in the amount you have, it also provides you more time for texturing.
Also pouring your mix on a plastic sheeting and then you can texturing it in the horizontal mode, then mud the back of it and stick to you mountain walls.
And you may have a better idea, and I am really enjoying your post, and excited to see your progress.
Thanks for sharing
Dennis


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

A couple of days ago I did some work on the tunnel entrances, rounding and making them thicker to look more like cuts into the mountain. Before I finished up the bucket I put a wood "support" in place under the end of the trestle. 4 screws in the back of the support for the concrete to fasten to then used two wooden grade stakes to hold it in place until the concrete dried. We had heavy winds, rain and hail 2 nights ago and it is still there so that is a good sign. Will look at casting shear walls and holding them to the base in a similar manner. Lots less scraping up conrete that drops off the walls and putting it back in place that way.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have been told adding lime to the mix makes it more sticky. Lime is a *********** not the fruit. 
?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks to a friend that works for a metal roofing company I put a new roof on the power station the day before we had a heavy storm. Roof didn't move, stain, or leak. And sort of Southwestern color too.








A couple of weeks ago I had some time on my hands, and a pile of beams from the trestle build so I put together a buttress for under the trestle strings as they enter the upper tunnel. To make sure it stayed in place I put 4 screws into the back of the wood and pushed concrete around them and behind the buttress to look as if it had been cut into the cliff face. A couple of grading stakes held it in place while it dried.








Removed the stakes after a couple of days and that rain storm. Next I'll add more top coat to the cliff face so that it "sits" on an outcropping.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

JJ, After you mentioned it I remembered that my grandfather added lime to his concrete mix when building his house. Haven't looked for it before but will now. Thanks


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

yes lime will make it stickyer, 
and looking good at the trestle connection
Dennis


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Be careful when using lime you can get a chemical burn. I still have a scare from using Portland cement to make my mountains and yes I wore gloves. How are you going to add color to your mountains. Pete


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Pete, I'm looking at using diluted acrylic paint to color the mountain. Have read about using multiple "washes" of thinned out paint to build up to the colors I'm looking for. The base rock (cliffs) in this area is a med tan to light brown with some deep yellow/gold highlights. The sloped areas are usually covered in mesquite on top of tan soil. Unlike what many people think about Arizona being "desert" and mostly flat and dry, the high desert mountain areas around me (4000 to 8000 feet) are green most of the year from all the mesquite trees. I'll use the "rock" areas inside the tunnels to experiment since once the top is in place it will be fairly dark anyway.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have also started using the STUCCO mix with fiberglass particles in it. That seems to be more stronger. 

JJ


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

If you have not put a finished coat over the burlap/cement There is a acid that you spray on the cement that adds color to cement it is called lithochrome chemstain it comes in different colors.You spray it on wet cement let it set for 10 to 15 min then use a mixture of water and baking soda to stop the acid from working. This is just one of many ways to add color to cement. Pete


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Nice trestle abutment!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the info Pete. Thanks Cliffy, amazing what comes from scrap.
Dennis Where did you get your molds from?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

You can use Liquid Latex as a medium to create your own molds from rocks at home.. I've made molds on field trips..huge rocks too large to bring home in your lunch pail.. 
Search the many sites for Liquid Latex..used to make molds.
Search also many sites showing videos to using the liquid latex on rocks..cleaning tips..setting time..etc.
You might gain insight from watching videos of installing hydracal rocks in place for indoor HO layouts also..

Feed your mind..have fun..

We could go on a field trip !

SD


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Joel Bragdon
http://www.bragdonent.com/molds.htm

I have used acrylic house paints and I have used concrete etching coloring from Lowes, I really prefer that
4 or 5 choices in color and you can mix it for inbetween colors two. Spray on
Dennis


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks for the site Dennis I like #85 and 91. Looks like the mountains here


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Plenty of rain here over night, pool and fountains all full to the edge. But this AM conditions were good to show where I came up with the Sky Islands RR name. This photo was taken from in front of the house.








Looked like the Huachuca Mountains, south of my place, were floating on the clouds. And this gives a pretty good look at one of the cliffs that Im trying to model after.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

denray said:


> Joel Bragdon
> http://www.bragdonent.com/molds.htm
> 
> I have used acrylic house paints and I have used concrete etching coloring from Lowes, I really prefer that
> ...


Back when THE BIG TRAIN SHOW was at the Queen Mary Joel Bragdon use to give classes on how to mold stuff. They were always very informative.

Back then I was new to G scale. I would leave Phoenix and go to Palm Desert and stay in a motel. I would get to the Queen Mary Early Attend a couple of Classes Then go to the show. I would leave about 3 PM and come home. I didn't know anyone then. But I sure learned a lot and Made a whole bunch of Friends.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

1.5 " in 24 hours...

Yea..just our High Desert.. Rain storm..monsoon or winter rains?
..more on the way...

SD


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

That's a great reference pic Alan. "My" mountains are on the other side of the country, so it's cool that yours are right there.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy, it is a handy reference. And now when people drop by to kook at trains they can get an idea of what I was trying to do.
Huummmmmmmm Maybe not such a good thing.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

CliffyJ said:


> That's a great reference pic Alan. "My" mountains are on the other side of the country, so it's cool that yours are right there.



That's funny, my mountains are in my head!

John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

That make em "Head Mountains".. with funny bumps?

This needs to be in our train group..front page..top

More crete Alan.. Been dryer out..cool mornings!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Was talking to Dirk yesterday and he commented on no new pictures. So if anyone gets eye strain it's his fault. I scrolled back a few pages and realized that I actually had been making progress since the last photos.
Under the watchful eye of the inspector .....








Camera shutter must have disturbed her








The shell north end and top of the tunnel shell now in place, it was time to see if I could put together something that looked something like the silhouette of one of the local critters. This idea came from driving by Pichaco Peak between Phoenix and Tucson.







Another view of the frame looking northeast








What doesn't show in these photos is the added sections of canyon walls going in along the wall around the mine area. I usually ended up with left over concrete as I was doing the top of the mountain to that is put to use extending the canyon walls over the existing concrete blocks
Day 1 of Project Wolf








Top of "head and shoulders" looking sorta south








West side of the and part of "chest" above the tunnel mouth. Note high Tech clips keeping construction materials from falling on the track/trestle. The canyon wall now extends past the rock sitting on top of the concrete wall thanks to excess mountain concrete and burlap.








Viewing north towards the mouth and left shoulder.
No pic's of Day 2 when ears and the start of the forehead was put on
Day 3








Lower jaw in place, more on forehead east side








Throat about 95% done but needs another layer to close small gaps








Frontal view. I was considering to make the mouth a deep cave but reconsidered when thoughts of bats and other critters that like to nest in similar locations came to mind.
I've been running trains to keep track clean and make sure largest cars can make it thru easily. So far so good.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Nice looking Wolf Mountain
Dennis


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Thank You Alan...
... I'm blamed for so much these days!!
Wolf on there Buddy..
... Hoooooowll ! Incarnet crete a wolf! Lol...

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

May need to drill a couple of small holes where eyes would be and drop in a couple of red LED's so I'll know when track is on. Speaker in mouth cave with recorded howling sounds would be a bit much.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

"Winds of Howling Mountain"..

Go for it... all Fun!!

SD


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I agree with Dirk, Alan, go for the howl -- and the lit-up eyes, haha!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I can hear it now a Melotron of wolfish wind howl recordings ... a 70's sampling device; a keyboard that activated pre-recorded tracks...
A random player shouldn't be too hard. Go for it, you can always blame our buddy....

John


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

"a bit much"
at this point, a bit much has long disappeared down the line!

Might as well as do it up right.
John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Yep... thanks for Your vote of confidence TW..!!! LOL..

Pass the blame to the Right!!

Poor Alan now has to face a unnaminous vote of real sounds on the Wolf Mountain!

We're behind you Alan... Howl on.... sides Full moon hangs in heavens currently

SD


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Barking Mountain ? 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

An update on Wolf Mountain. I finished up the concrete work and now I need to figure out colors. 








West side with annual morning glory fence. This also shows the continuing work on the walls of the mine area. Rebar in the background is the start of the large mountain and tunnels around the northeast corner of the site.








East side. Tried to keep tracks covered while working with concrete but .....








North end. Since this was taken, another 10 feet of canyon wall has received the second coat of concrete and more texture. 








I'm sure it will take some work to blend in the colors of the real rocks with the mountain. Anyone have any ideas of how to paint mesquite trees on the slopes so it looks like the Huachuca Mountains in the pic a couple of pages back? "Cliff" areas will (hopefully) match the real rock.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

WOW! That sure turned out nice. I tried a mountain with Burlap and Copncrete and it looked like a pile of dirty laundry

I really like your mountain.

JJ


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Alan looking very nice, If you want a cartoonish look, on the eyes, for sure use LED lights, if you are more for a realistic look, drill a hole and place a plastic pipe all the way through, and blend cement inside the hole to hide the pipe entrance, now it looks like a small tunnel through the mountain producing light, plus making it look like EYEs. Apply a little more cement to the top of the tunnel/eye socket , blending it in with rest of the mountain, would look quite unique. you could also get two pieces of the desert glass and cement in place to represent eyes. 
Use small mesquite limbs for your mesquite trees, Heck I had to buy a box of mesquite limbs, to make dead trees.
IMHO Painting the trees on the mountain base would not give you the looks you might be after.
If you do the wolf sound, place a wolf howling on the wolf mountains nose, creating a very large attention getter and conversation center. Something that people would talk about for years.
Dennis


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Dennis. Hadn't thought about putting a figure up there. Good idea. Have plenty of small mesquite limbs cluttering the site Will give that a shot


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

When are you going to have your next Get together? I might be able to come down.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Nothing planned yet but hopefully we can get together before the end of the year. I haven't been on the site much the past few weeks due to Honey-Does and a sore back


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

My back got better so I could lift more concrete. The burlap and chicken wire are the easy part of making mountains, etc. After a couple of days the concrete blocks forming the Hole-in the-Wall canyon are covered. Surprising what a difference that made.







The new view looking past Wolf Mountain.







Looking into the canyon / pit / mine area from the pedestrian walkway. I put a couple of "spare" rocks on top to break up the straight line of the top of the concrete blocks and provide an edge for the the ballast. Some of the burlap was cut a little short and didn't reach the ground but that was an easy fix using thicker mix made up for the 2nd coat. The chicken wire is still visible in one area while patched areas are damp and darker.







2nd coat of concrete in place along the south side of the canyon wall. Need to do some carving where the natural stone and concrete meet. I'm adding ballast while the concrete is wet and building up the top as needed to keep ballast from migrating over the edges. Have also been putting a little concrete under the top rocks so they don't get kicked off by accident and filling in unexpected erosion channels that resulted in lower track being covered by runoff after several hard rains this past year.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

That dog sure has a long tail! Can't wait for his color coat.

For trees try clumping short branches w/ leaves on them. In the olden days we used cheap hairspray to keep the leaves on the branches. I'd cover that w/ uv clear coat.


John


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

After realizing how surprised I was with My Friends recent full rock loop wall shown here.. Having just visited in person.. Far from this point!
Alans back is recovering well... Get the concrete around... Thrown in place in his latest best stylized approach!
Imagine my surprise to see it here like this!! 

Steam up Alan! Press onwards!
Time to run a train yet?

SD


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Looks great. Are you going to paint it?


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I put in another 8 feet of 2nd coat along the east wall this morning. Using a few of the rocks that have been piling up on top of the base coat to break up the flat surfaces. One I have the canyon wall done I'll start experimenting with colors. I bought a starter kit of 24 small bottles Acrylic paint on sale at Hobby Lobby so that gives me a pretty good selection. Starting with washes using the lightest colors to get close to the natural coloring of some of the larger rocks I used to build parts of the walls. One section of the wolf will be a lava flow that was created when heavy rains came in right after I had done a section on the west side of the mountain just behind the "ears". The resulting texture is totally different from the rest of the mountains and walls. We'll see how that works out.


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Lava flow behind the ears, I like it!!


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Are you saying your hound is a hot head?

Acrylics will fade.
Chemical and acid washes are more permanent...

John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Merry Christmas to All. Mother Nature decided to give us an unusual Christmas morning and gave Wolf Mountain has a winter coat.







Not even worth mentioning for those in cooler climates but having a white Christmas is a treat here.








Even snow capped hills.
Wishing one and all a wonderful holiday season and great new year.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Wishing Your Family a wonderful Christmas Day in return...

.. Even a taste of snow is impressive on your hill tops Alan!
Dont need a plow yet buddy!

Dirk


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Nice touch Alan! 

And Merry Christmas & HNY to you & Dirk & John & JJ and all you AZ boys.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Warmer here yesterday.. More melted - yea.! But. Now still have lingering piles of remaining white fluff.. Here n there..
Spring is coming.. I'm just sure.. I read it somewhere!
Play day for all.. Press onwards.. Stay warm!
SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Transformers for NCE*

Mrs. Santa was good to me this year and there was a NCE PH10-R under the tree. Took several weeks before the question of why it wasn't running came up. Talked about decoders etc then casually mentioned that I need a transformer which wasn't included.
NCE recommends their Brutus 10 amp 18 VAC transformer as a power source. Question for those that use or have tested the PH10-R system. Are there transformers out there that offer equal or better power. Accessory outlets etc.? Quick recap of track being powered: about 700 feet of track in 3 loops with feeders every 25 to 30 feet. Loops currently on a single circuit but are set up to be 3 individual loops. Any and all assistance happily accepted.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No, do not get that transformer... you will get much improved performance with a regulated power supply.

Read my site, and email me with questions, I am VERY familiar with the ins and outs of this system.










I tell you where to get the best deal on the proper power supply.

http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=322&Itemid=360

I have a number of pages on NCE: (tips, tweaks, etc)

http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=47

and there are FIVE sub pages from the above page, you will see the link at the top of the page.

I'd be happy to help you or even talk on the phone.

Greg


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

Good for you, Alan! I've got the same NCE system. And I'll commend Greg's site to you, he and his articles have been a tremendous help.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Cliffy, Greg - Thanks for the input. Have been looking at some regulated voltage transformers and an issue has sort of cropped up. The one's I looked at had an operating range of -3 C to 50 C. Not worried about low end even in the winter here but 50C = 80F and we regularly get days in the high 80's to mid 90's here during the summer. Over 95 or so no trains running as I'm either in the house or the pool. More research for sure.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That stack has the Meanwell supply on the bottom, it is fan cooled. It also lived in a black plastic box only open on the bottom and I know it got a lot hotter than 80 degrees in the summer!

Note also that your DCC system will get hot also. Basically put a small circulating fan inside, leave some ventilation and you will be fine.

Greg

p.s. the MeanWell is only about $60...


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

50 deg C is 112 deg F. Hopefully you don't play need trains in that temp.

Cheers
Neil


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

My Old School math.. ( web search ) shows 122 F.. In the shade! Little of that here in AZ.. I speak from experience .!!
Morning Gents.. Gaday' Neil!! n good nite!

SD


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

That;s a load off my mind. Next time I'll check that online conversion chart. Must have put in the wrong numbers. Duuhh


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

I think that you will find 50 = 80 is MPH to KMH
If only we could all keep to one system!!!!
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

What's best is learning before the work gets done!!

You Did Fyrekop.. Good job asking!
SD


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Is it assembled and ready to go yet?

John


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Mornin' Dirk.

Fat finger typing again..  Ahh well.

Nice balmy 88F here today, and blowing a gale to boot. Too hot for me..

Cheers
N


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Lol Buddy!

Ya need a Trip to the Top Side Buddy! I was near 70 yesterday.. More of the same this week! Winds blow everywhere.. We keep trading n passing it around!!

SD


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Hey. .. TW.. We're making a Run in mid April... Can you get here?!! 1st Annual Chucks Steam Up.. at Alans...

Your in charge of kool aid Buddy! Bring a runner! Play time on trestle!!
SD


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> That stack has the Meanwell supply on the bottom, it is fan cooled. It also lived in a black plastic box only open on the bottom and I know it got a lot hotter than 80 degrees in the summer!
> 
> Note also that your DCC system will get hot also. Basically put a small circulating fan inside, leave some ventilation and you will be fine.
> 
> ...


X 2 on the system as I use the same set up as Greg. Even had some pretty hot days here in summer and system works great. Later RJD


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

SD90WLMT said:


> Hey. .. TW.. We're making a Run in mid April... Can you get here?!! 1st Annual Chucks Steam Up.. at Alans...
> 
> Your in charge of kool aid Buddy! Bring a runner! Play time on trestle!!
> SD




When in April ?

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Greg,
The "Meanwell" was $63 so good memory. I have plenty of room in my "power cabinet" so don't need to stack anything on the device, can also add small fans in the cabinet to keep those temp's down if needed. Interesting that the NCE uses 14 gauge wire so going from that to 10 and 12 gauge shouldn't cause a heat issue.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

JJ. I'll be gone the first week in April but the rest of the month is clear except for a luncheon on the 26th. You have the farthest to travel but Dirk and I are pretty open so we need to find out when you and TW are available. By then I should be able to run DCC, DC, battery and live steam.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Go Live Steam.. A 1st!! Yea!!

We need more Train Nutz in AZ for meets Guys... Don't be bashfull now.. Great times to have fun!!! Call Alan.. Leave your name n back account!! Lets play Trains Boys!!

SD


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Where's the list?

I'm showing up tho!

SD


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

fyrekop said:


> JJ. I'll be gone the first week in April but the rest of the month is clear except for a luncheon on the 26th. You have the farthest to travel but Dirk and I are pretty open so we need to find out when you and TW are available. By then I should be able to run DCC, DC, battery and live steam.



Set a date and I will try and be there. 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Been working on getting the DCC systems in place. Got the power supply wired and working and figured out how I'll put things together. Will stack the NCE boxes but not the power power supply so the fan has plenty of room to exhaust the heat. Started to rain so came in to do indoor stuff.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not trying to change your mind, but I put thick feet on the bottom of the NCE boxes so there was about 1/2 inch of clearance between them and the power supply.

That was adequate for 24 hour a day running for about 6 months, before I took pity on the electrocuted frogs and started turning the system off when not in use.

Greg


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Any of you guys down in Southern AZ on Face Book or Twitter or anything like that ?

JJ


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

HI Guys you still around?

JJ


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I can't speak for the boys, but I'm hanging out and still working on the railroad... I have an Arch Bridge coming together...









John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

No work on the trains for some time due to cold/flu season taking its toll. Getting better but after and hour of being up and about or so I take a nap. Also need a connection to get LGB Trackcleaner running again and put decoder into my 2-4-2 Bachmann. May be a autumn Stream-Up instead of Spring. :-(


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Sorry to hear of your discomforts, since I can catch a cold by driving by a clinic, I'll wait until you are well.
John


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I hear you John. Dirk is down with something similar.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What's wrong with the LGB trackcleaner?

Greg


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Sorry about delay was on vacation. It just stopped running even with direct power to the track pickups. I direct connected the cleaning motor and it works fine :-(


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Were you running it on DC or DCC?

Greg


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I was running on DC and testing with direct wires from transformer. I managed to get the lights to come on a couple of times but they act like there is an intermittent "open" somewhere in the system and I haven't figured out how to get the body off to check all the engine connections.
I need to find a "local" place to get engines worked on, to include putting in decoders. The closest I've found do far is in Phoenix which means 6 hour round trip drive or shipping.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*Passing of Dirk Carmichael - SD40WLMT*

Dirk's son notified me that Dirk passed away peacefully after a short illness. Many here knew him from his posts and helpful suggestions and he will be missed by all.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Maybe it's time to join the Tucson Garden RR group and see if they have a local guru to help with the wiring. 
John


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

fyrekop said:


> Dirk's son notified me that Dirk passed away peacefully after a short illness. Many here knew him from his posts and helpful suggestions and he will be missed by all.



How Sad 

JJ


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

TW, It looks like that might be my best bet to get help closer than Phoenix.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Just checked and it's been over 2 years since I posted anything. Lots more landscaping done since then. Will post photos soon.


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Wow, 2 years. Will be excited to see the changes!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Mostly working on "mountains" and repairing trestle where LARGE dog didn't quite make it all the way over. Also putting down weed block where ever I can. Paid to bail out my PhotoBucket account so should be able to post pics again.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

*After a long break*

With other things going on I didn't do much on the site other than pull weeds for quite awhile. We got a new "puppy" (130 pounds of Great Pyrenees) so I fenced in the site after the second time he didn't quite clear the trestle while chasing the Pug-Beagle(Pugel). 












A local metal shop was happy to make this shelf for me and get a break from building fences. Stiffened up the corner and the trestle survived the 40 mph plus winds we had this past month. Rebar is the start of the frame for a twin mountain with open track between the two peaks. Double arms length tunnels under the mountain so I can reach trains that might have an issues on the 12' curve.


I dug down 4 inches in the upper dirt area, put down weed block, screened the dirt to remove rocks and gravel greater than 1/4 inch, put in new edges of block and real rocks, then replaced the dirt. With that as a desired base color I went to Lowe's and attempted to get paint that was at least close. To my surprise it turned out fairly close, and I've been painting Wolf Mountain and the areas of wall that had the finish coat of cement in place.



















As part of my wall work I decided to put in a road from the "To Be" town up to the "To Be" ranch and farm area. It goes under the bridge and up 3 switchbacks (about 6% grade) to the upper level. A bit hard to see but should look better when painted.























After getting the road in place I started on the east tunnel entrance of the mountain that curves around the northwest corner of the site. Interesting build as this has tunnels on two levels like Wolf Mountain. Lower tunnel is for the outer loops and the other is for the grade from the flats, under the observation area, around the mine and through Wolf Mountain to the trestle.












More to follow and hopefully not another two years.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I've been away from my mountain for 4 months, but I did beat another lung cancer, so I can't complain.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

*Dirk's passing*

I am way late getting this news, and just today I was thinking about Dirk while watching a video of UP 4014 passing through Dragoon and wondering if he was watching. 
I met him many years ago, while working on Rick the Railroad guys attempt at the worlds longest train. We stayed in touch for a long time, but I usually commented on some of his posts here. 
Can someone tell me a little more about his passing. I considered him a good friend. 
Thanks


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Bottino,
Better late than never. Dirk lived about an hours drive from me in Dragoon, AZ. I dropped by and left a note after feeding the cats. That evening his son called and told me Dirk was in the hospital in Tucson. I visited and he barely recognized that he knew me. He had numerous small tumors in his brain and passed away 10 days later, surrounded by ex-wife, son and daughters.


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks, very sad to hear this. He was a friend.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

He was a great guy, full of cool ideas.


Greg


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## ewarhol (Mar 3, 2014)

Greg Elmassian said:


> He was a great guy, full of cool ideas.
> 
> 
> Greg


Yes he was. He loved attention to detail. I remember working on an SD40-2 and he was pushing me to build a prototypical coupler pocket detail. At the time I didn't. Last week I replaced a ditch light and added the coupler detail. I'm sure he's looking down saying finally 

Crazy to think he's been gone over three years now, miss him still.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I've been away for awhile, like 2 years, but got busy several months ago when the grandkids were scheduled to visit. Back in May 2019 I started to build a mountain to cover the metal tray that replaced wooden trestle bents after the second time that section of trestle got blown over. The photo back then shows the chicken wire and rebar in place at the south end of the curve. Since then it went for one large mountain with 7' tunnel to two connected mountains with a shoulder between them. (Shoulder is a nice name for access to trains if needed.) Another addition is the Howe Truss bridge east of the mountain. The bridge and two others were a gift from another Sierra Vista resident that has down sized his layout. He showed up at the house and asked if I could use a couple of bridges I'm still looking for his card to have him drop by and see the reused bridge. Took photos and will get them downloaded and attached soon.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Trying to post photos


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

This a road I made after the unfinished hillside washed out. Following photos are of the Twin Peaks mountain covering the metal corner of the trestle.


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## MGates (Mar 16, 2016)

What a huge project! That is going to be quite the layout once finished. Thanks for sharing pictures!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks. It's a never-finished work in progress. I actually ran trains on all three loops this past week when granddaughters were here.


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## oa5599 (Aug 16, 2021)

Hey, this whole thread is just amazing!
Question: what did you use to lay the track on in the early stages? It looks like reddish brown bricks but it isn't brick. Thanks!


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

oa5599 said:


> Hey, this whole thread is just amazing!
> Question: what did you use to lay the track on in the early stages? It looks like reddish brown bricks but it isn't brick. Thanks!


The outer walls are made of "Pavestone" 4 by 12 wall block (Lowe's or Home Depot) I can't recall the color but it was a combo of red, brown, and black. The block isn't square so makes it easier to do curves etc. The wall around the inner "mine" area is regular concrete block that was covered with the same chicken wire and mortar method that I use for my mountains, I can't remember who wrote the "How To" article called "Making Concrete Mountains" but it still be available.
The raised ground level track is supported by a ladder system of 2" pvc pipe with Trex screwed into the pipe to support the track. There are several threads elsewhere in MLS on how to build that type of support.
Alan


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

If you scan back to page 5 of this thread it shows the ladder system being put down before the raised bed was back-filled to the top of the outer wall


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## oa5599 (Aug 16, 2021)

Thanks both! I decided to run cinder blocks under my track at 2 foot intervals with ballast in between. I had the block sitting around...


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

oa5599 said:


> Thanks both! I decided to run cinder blocks under my track at 2 foot intervals with ballast in between. I had the block sitting around...


Lots of block and digging unless you are planning to back-fill once track is in place. Just pickup 400 more pounds of Type S mortar so should be able to finish second coat on the north side mountain. It takes about 60 pounds to do a section from base to peak 12 inches wide.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Going thru the thread I found photos of Dirk, John, JJ and Chuck giving the site a test run in March 2016. How time flies. The only issues where the RC interference from the Ft. Huachuca Testing sites and Dirk's loooooooooooong train uncoupling on the tighter, 10' diameter curves around the mine area.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

Minor correction that is a 16' diameter 250 degree curve


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## Hetronnn (Sep 10, 2021)

Hello! This is the first time I have seen such a large railway. I showed your work to my son, he liked it, on the weekend we will go for building materials and make a similar railroad to ourselves in the backyard.


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## fyrekop (Sep 20, 2011)

I built mine above ground level to help save my back. Well once all the wall block were in place anyway. Depending on how old your son is you might not have to. I didn't put measurements on the site but it's 100' by 60' at the bump out


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