# Caught the P.E. bug



## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

I few weeks ago, I happened to come across a Pacific Electric 1100 series car for sale in 1/29. It was build completely from plywood (everything but wheels) and it looked fantastic. I am a big Pacific Electric fan so having a Red Car in G is a must for me, and with a steeple cab coming out in G, I can't resist the Red Cars. So out I go (starting yet another project while I still have countless others unfinished) in search of plans for Pacific Electric #1360. I plan to build it from wood just like the one I had seen. I may not necessarily model the 1950's, but I may just be changing the poolside into a Los Angeles suburb with tons of Red Car action, just as soon as I hunt done the plans for the car.

Dave


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,

There aren't many of us P.E. fans around here. I have a 1600 series P.E. freight motor in 1/8 scale that I built about 25 years ago.










Picture taken at Los Angeles Live Steamers of my son and me, about 1988 or 1989.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Now I know what a PE is...


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 25 Jan 2011 04:25 PM 
Now I know what a PE is... I was wondering if EMD and ALCO had joined forces back in the 1940s to produce a super passenger loco! 


Glad to hear there are other traction fans out there! I'd love to scratch build some trolley cars for largescale, but I just don't have the space yet inside! (I'll stick with HO traction for now)

Will you be running these outside? I loved having a string of copper telephone lines on my layout, but I always had poor luck maintaining them! Tree branches, cats, dogs, and sunshine were always causing me trouble.


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## CapeCodSteam (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave, 

Please post us pictures when you receive it


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah Pacific Electric , good going Dave , and who is bringing out a steeplecab in G ?


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

In response to everyone's questions.... 

I am in fact planning to run outside with working overhead (if and when I do, most of the area will be concrete so it's a good foundation to drive line poles into) and Gal Line (http://www.thegalline.com/) is coming out with a steeplecab that with small modifications, and/or talking to Alan about changing a few details before shipping it, can become a P.E. steeplecab overnight. Just put it on a USAT 44-tonner chassis and its a ready to roll. 

Here is a link to the what the model looks like when it comes from Gal Line (minus the trucks and poles I believe). (http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/8/aft/118379/afv/topic/Default.aspx) 

Dave


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

I am confused [normal ] but I thought that it was a stack of precut plastic pieces that YOU have to assemble ? 

Web site list $265 plus $26 rivet pack , $291 dollars for the kit ,of precut plastic pieces , less detail parts and power trucks , couplers . 


Reading your post , it seems to come ASSEMBLED , only minus the trucks and poles . Which sounds MUCH better to me . 

maybe this link will work ?

http://www.thegalline.com/


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## virgal (Sep 25, 2009)

To all 
Let me clear up some misunderstands. 
The steeplecab freight motor seen pictured on my website is 1/20.3 scale. It is available for sale now. It does not come assembled at that price. 
I have had a couple of inquiries about a 1/29th scale version. This can be done. Modifying the current design can also be done. All of the projects I offer are designed and cut to order. If you are interested drop me a line [email protected] 

Alan


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

I'm a Pacific Electric fan myself. The GAL steeple cab is a kit of parts with the holes pre-drilled to insert the rivets ( Grandt Line maybe?). It is not assembled, but the really hard work is done for you. Currently it is offered in 1:20.3 scale but an email from the owner indicated that it can be re-sized to 1:29 or ( I suppose) 1:24 which is the scale that most large scale trolley guys seem to use. 

I know that sounds like a lot of money, but as I said the really hard work is done. 

Detail parts may be hard to find if not currently offered by Light Rail products. Now if we only had some Blimps and 12's (and lettering/stripes for the PE), sigh. One can dream! 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

The P.E. has a very nice shape and look to it. I can see why you guys are hooked. I would put it in the same league as the GG-1


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Dave, 

Just remembered that Model Railroader magazine ran plans of the PE 10's, of which 1360 was a member of that class of wood cars, back in the 60's/70's. I have this issue. Drop me a line; mocrown(at)verizon.net. I'll see if I can put my hands on the magazine when I get home tonight. 

A good friend of mine modelled a whole fleet of 10's in O scale back in the 70's. They are nice looking cars when you have a train of 2 or 3. Now you have me thinking, just what I need is another project!!!! 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Starting into the project slowly but surely. Thanks to Mike, I now have the drawings to build the car to. Just a matter of getting wood now and having to do all the woodwork.....and attempting to keep myself from doing other projects. 

My apologizes for anyone who was confused about the steeple cab. 

Dave


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Newest development on the Red Car project: 

I am still think about building the car from plywood all by hand, but I recently had another idea brought to mind. I have a few CNC machines (lathe, miller, etc) that I have for making large quantities of non-railroad parts, but also use for precision model working. This usually means cutting off bulk details when kit bashing and/or super detailing a piece with ease. But this is just the beginning of the machines capabilities. Given a CAD document, they can make the exact part without much human assistance (other than moving or reloading the machines with material to be worked). It's wonderful what technology can do, and that was when it occurred to me. Why not make the model in a CAD document so the pieces could be milled away and I would only have to assemble them. It would allow me to make more of them and also would allow me to make them in any size I wanted. I scanned the plans onto the PC and I am experimenting building the basics of the car (having built a rough but acceptable "Hollywood" P.E. car in CAD). I am still deciding whether or not I want to hand build it, or cheat and let the computer do some of the work for me. 

Dave


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Here is how far I have gotten with the car. Made this over 6 hours of spare time.



Dave


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## Mr Ron (Sep 23, 2009)

Hello Gary,
I just came across the picture of your PE freight motor. I too am a traction fan and have built a model of a Swedish class D, 1-C-1 electric in 1/8 scale. It has 3 axles driven by a countershaft and side rods. The proto was built around 1925 and had a wood body, due to the cold weather; Later engines had steel bodies. Specifically, I am asking you about the pantograph on your model; if you made it and how. I've searched high and low for drawings/dimensions for one. I have one made using 1/8" brass rod, but it is not working well. I have been to LALS when I lived in California. I now reside in Mississippi, retired and devoting my time to building 1/8 scale locomotives. Other engines I have built include a 4-4-0 camelback and an AGEIR diesel electric. They all run by electric motors and storage batteries. Due to the high cost of building in 1/8 scale, I have used basically wood construction, with metals used where rotating and sliding motion is present. I use mostly aluminum, brass, hardwoods and some plastics; the lens/reflector from a plastic flashlight used as a headlight for example. Also in the works is a model of a DD-1 boxcab electric as used by the Pennsylvania and Long Island ailroads.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Ron, 

I built that freight motor about 25 plus years ago to have something to run while I was building my Gene Allen ten-wheeler. This engine was part of a consortium of folks at Los Angeles Live Steamers. We built about 25 to 28 of these locos during that time. We all volunteered individual skills to bring to the project. As far as the pantograph is concerned, these were all purchased from a manufacturer in New Jersey. The name of the company is a "foggy memory" at this time. I know they built 1 1/2" scale live steam Camelbacks, various kinds of rolling stock and all the goodies for the live steam hobby. He was contracted to make 30 pantographs. I DO believe they went out of business quite a few years ago. Sorry I can't be more help to you. I might be able to talk to a person who is still around that was involved with our project. 

Ron,
UPDATE!!!! The "foggy memory" just cleared! The man who made the pantographs was Mercer Locomotive in New Jersey. This was about 1985-87. Hope this helps.

UPDATE NUMBER 2!!!

Here is the link for Mercer Locomotive in Hamilton, New Jersey:

http://www.mercerlocomotiveworks.com/index.html


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Long ago a garden railway magazine carried ads with a photo of a PE style car made and sold by a person named Hubert. He went out of the business. Apparently the car was made from a bachmann or lgb coach body, with the addition of PE red paint one trolley pole, destination signs, end dashes, headlights and the like. I thought it looked good. I don't have a photo link. 






long ago


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Dave, 

Nice work, and fast! Keep in touch if you decide to start lasering wood/plastic. 

Mike 
mocrownsteam 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Tom: I think I may know what you are describing. It looked like this, right? 

http://www.davesrailpix.com/models/htm/gstar03.htm 

Mike: I so far only have the body done; roof is being temperamental. I have thought about the idea of making the models with a mixture of milling (to cut away the large open surfaces and to allow the ends to be made from a solid block of wood) and after, having a laser engraver do all the fine details (wood planks, etc). 

Dave


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Well after a few hours of work over the course of a few weeks, the file is complete. I decided to not construct a roof since the software doesn't like odd angles (such as the clerestory at the ends). I'll just have to construct a jig or find a roof after the model is in wood. The nice part of the model is that I designed it to interchange with other parts or sections from anyone. The ends are each one piece and the sides are also one piece each, so as I continue building P.E. wood cars, I will have most of the pieces already made, just waiting to be added to a different style side (for instance I am building #1360 which is a sister car but built as a combine). I plan to make a #960 style end (continuous curved end like most streetcars and interurbans had) in CAD as well as restart the "Hollywood" car project and may design the trolley pole supports for the VO-1000 that soon will become a P.E. unit. I seemed to have really have caught the P.E bug! 

Dave


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## bcer960 (Dec 27, 2007)

Dave,
So are you planning on making these with your CNC? I built BCER interurbans and baggage cars and have my CNC make my roofs. It was the only way I could figure out how to make them all the same, with the complexe curves.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/8/aft/114380/afv/topic/Default.aspx#147936

I have pics about 1/3 down the page. I am glad to see someone else catching the traction bug.

Ray


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Posted By bcer960 on 17 Feb 2011 06:35 PM 


Dave,
So are you planning on making these with your CNC? I built BCER interurbans and baggage cars and have my CNC make my roofs. It was the only way I could figure out how to make them all the same, with the complexe curves.

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/8/aft/114380/afv/topic/Default.aspx#147936

I have pics about 1/3 down the page. I am glad to see someone else catching the traction bug.

Ray
Ray,

I am going to try to make the car sections with my CNC. Very impressive work by the way. BCER ranks tied with PE for my favorite interurban company. Done a great job modeling 1208, which was actually what gave me the idea of making the P.E. car with software and then produce the car with the CNC. Any odd surface, however, caused grief when trying to reproduce it in the software. I really didn't have enough patience to put up with the errors, software locking up, etc when trying to do this, but there are parts for the roof out there already, that I can buy and piece together. So it's not a major problem. 



I do have a question for you since you have built a few cars.
Where do get your sideframes and underbody details from? I looked at the sideframes on your 1208 and they are identical to the trucks Pacific Electric used on their wood cars and other pieces of equipment.


Keep up the great work,

Dave


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## bcer960 (Dec 27, 2007)

Dave,

Thanks for the compliment. I made the C- 60 truck frames and bolster out of styrene and then cast them in eurathane with some styrene and springs I made. It is made in a three part mold.







They are not sprung, all is for show. The masters were made from a plans I have of the BCER 1200 wood cars. Most of the under body is also cast or styrene.












The resistor bank is made up of 135 pieces of styrene. Not shown in the pic is the circuit breaker or reverser. Again placement and parts were taken from plans.

Ray


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Well, this could be the end of the project. Since I finished the 3D drawings of the P.E. car, I have been looking for some way of converting it to a CAD drawing. Finally found out last week that it is easily done.....but the transfer software costs $500....and I don't seem to have that in my back pocket. So, for the moment, the project of getting the car done by machine is on hold till further notice. I may just save up and get the software, and make a batch of 100+ cars to sell (to get my cash back for the software), but I would need to see if anyone would want one. 

So....Does anyone want a P.E. Wood Interurban? Great for Southern California modelers (which I have become). 

Dave


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Can you save as a .igs, step, stl, pro e, dxf or dwg? If you can there are ways to get around to a cad file.


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

Dave, 

I would take two. There are other ways to skin the cat as far as file transfer(which I found out making EBT driver centers). What does your file end in, IE .XXX? 

Mike McCormack 
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

The file can only be in an SKB (Google Sketch Up) or an .xsi. Neither of which will work on any of my machines at the shop. I have to convert the files to some sort of CAD, or Solidworks file, in order to produce it myself (which is my goal). 

However, as it turns out, the family business is looking into purchasing the converter software. If that's the case, I can convert it to any kind of 2D/3D file known to man basically. I was considering purchasing it myself since I have 20+ files of railroad equipment or parts (such as P.E. baggage doors for combine woodie) drawn up, and would have the capability of making anything I need. 

Dave


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Dave can you Email the file? I am not sure if you can, try it, I operate sketchup everyday at work. if you can I can help you convert to a CAD file. 
Dennis


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

It seems it's been a while since I updated this thread, so here's what has happened over the past month or so. 

I was finally able to convert all the Sketchup files into a SolidWorks file which can be sent straight to the CNC machine to do all the cutting. I placed a chunk of wood for the miller to cut out the front of the first car (milling away from a solid piece). With some slight changes, I was able to get a near perfect end product (been waiting a long long time to see something go almost perfect for the first time). Even with the soft wood scrap piece I used for a test, the miller cut into it pretty well, and the end product was pretty strong, so I may make the walls a little thinner in the future. 

Next up was to mill out the car sides from plywood. This in my mind was supposed to be the easy part, but I also hadn't anticipated what was to come It turns out for me to cut everything myself, I would need to cut the ply into 2 pieces, have the CNC do its thing, and then splice both pieces together to create the full length. At around this time, the front end of the car seemed to go MIA. Then to make matters worse, an embedded virus wiped my entire PC clean. I just had it repaired and most files were recovered, including the project files *sigh of relief* 

At some point, I will come back to the project of milling the sides and ends again, but for now, believe it or not, I am taking a break to model the same style of car in N scale for my growing N scale Pacific Electric layout. 

Dave


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## gastarre (Jul 21, 2008)

A couple of years ago, I built PE 1624 steeple cab, kitbashed from an LGB coach, a switcher and USA trucks.

There is a movie of it on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUkxT8seY20

I also built the PE Ten depicted on Railpix, and also have a couple of 950's, a couple of Hollywoods, and an upgraded Birney.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

gastarre, 

That's a great looking P.E. freight motor! More close-up pics please.


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Agreed, gastarre, that is a fine P.E. motor. I had planned on making a P.E steeple cab as well, but by using the new GAL Line steeple cab body as a starting point, with custom trucks and frame.


After a recent look at the AMS P.F.E reefers, and the new MTH VO-1000 in Southern Pacific, I made up my mind that it would be more fun and cheaper to model in the 1950's, instead of modern day which I currently model. There is more of a variety of parts and equipment available in that era, were as modern equipment is growing, but not by much. So with that decision in mind, I decided I needed to get the P.E 1000's on the market soon. In short, the project is back on track. I had to order another copy of the converter software, but within the next few months, the parts should be piling up, ready to be bought by any G scale traction fan. 


Also to look for in the next few days is the P.E. Hollywood cars which I am developing as well. Like the P.E. car, the Hollywood cars will soon be available in kit form as well.


-Dave


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## jonathanj (Jan 24, 2008)

Also to look for in the next few days is the P.E. Hollywood cars which I am developing as well. Like the P.E. car, the Hollywood cars will soon be available in kit form as well.


-Dave 


Are these going to be 1/29 or 1/32? I'm guessing 1/32 to match MTH etc?

J.


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## SNER (Sep 20, 2010)

Are these going to be 1/29 or 1/32? I'm guessing 1/32 to match MTH etc? 

J. 


For myself, I will most likely make them in 1/32, but I can produce them in either 1/29 at any time for anyone who wants one in the scale. This goes for both the Hollywood cars (see new thread in Model Making to see their progress) and the Pacific Electric 1000's, as well as any other cars I make in the future.


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## rtobys (Dec 27, 2009)

It's been half a year since the last post hear, but I'm very interested in sharing the costs for a traction. I'd prefer 20.3 if possible? What is the status of the project? What are estimated costs? Are you providing in a kit form all body parts or as a build up? 

Email my back at [email protected] 

Thanks


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