# Custom Made Coupler Boxes & Kadees for Aristo's GP40 & SD45 locos



## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*Custom Made Coupler Boxes & Kadees for Aristo's GP40 & SD45 locos* 

Preface

I have been converting my "G" scale locos and rolling stock to Kadee type couplers having completed over 150 items. In this regard, Kadee provides a variety of offerings to do the conversions fairly easy. Of particular significance, couplers are offered in centerset, medium offset and large offset type configurations housed in many different types of coupler boxes with Kadee recommending the 787/ 908 having medium offset couplers for use in the Aristo-Craft GP40 and SD45 locomotives. Whilst vertically offset couplers make conversions friendly to do, they do have the trade-off of diminished operational performance when loaded (tend to lever downward) and, of course, their poor aesthetics (side view step up is not prototypical).

As a solution, I began to modified the plastic Kadee 831 type boxes (used in the 789 / 907 centerset coupler assemblies) for use on the Aristo GP40 and SD45 locos.
Modifications to the plastic boxes included making thin slice cuts in order to mount the boxes in the locos so that the centerset couplers can be used.
I wrote about this in the article, *Aristo GP40 & SD45 loco retrofit with Kadee 789 centerset couplers* .


*Best Solution - Custom Made Metal Coupler Box *

Though I had successfully completed many GP40 and SD45 conversions using the modified plastic boxes, I still had many more to do - so I decided to have custom coupler boxes made by Datum Precision Incorporated, the same company that made the stainless steel wheels for me for use on the Aristo "prime mover" SD45, etc. locos.

The coupler box 3-D animations are shown below.










*Coupler Box Features*

[*]Applicable to Aristo's GP40 and SD45 locos for mounting Kadee centerset couplers with potential for other applications[*]Meant for operational use on locos pulling long, heavy trains with commensurate drag [*]Non flexing, strong metal box made with 6061 type aluminum, CNC machined - including 2-56 screw thread for lid mounting [*]Black anodize finish[*]Tighter tolerance restricts up and down coupler wobble to a bare minimum[*]Accepts Kadee couplers that include the new "G" scale AAR E type model 901 centerset coupler [*]Accepts Kadee plastic lid and centering springs[/list]
The new coupler boxes are intended to be used with the Kadee couplers, springs and plastic lid.

Shown below are various views of the new aluminum, black anodized coupler box.










These new metal boxes, though pricey, are very strong and accept both the older style couplers that come in the Kadee 789 assemblies and the newer Kadee 901 centerset AAR "E" - couplers only. The boxes were made to be adaptable to other potential applications, so a longer than needed tail shank was decided upon that can be cut short for the GP40 application.


Shown below is the an example Rock Island GP40 having installed the Datum Precision made coupler boxes.



















Shown below is an example Wisconsin Central SD45 having installed the new boxes.



















For folks interested, a more complete write up about the custom made boxes can be seen on Greg Elmassian's web site. Because the article has about 50 pictures, I thought it best not to exhaust space here on MLS. 
See article, *Custom Made Coupler Boxes & Kadee Centerset Couplers for Aristo's GP40 & SD45 locos*, hosted for me by Greg E. on his web site. 

-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Very Nice Ted!
Will they also work on Dash-9's and E8's?
How can I buy some of them I have several SD45's that could use them.
Thanks, Ron

PS I'd also be interested in those stainless wheel you made.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Hi Ron, 

Sorry for the belated reply as I had to check on my needs with the new coupler boxes on hand.

I figure I have twenty coupler boxes (for 10 locos) that I can part with at this time for serious users like yourself. Since there may be other folks that would like to try them, too, it may be best if you would consider first sampling a fewer amount.

If that's OK, please email me at:
[email protected]

As to applying the new boxes to the Aristo E8s and Dash-9s, I am going to look at these next - starting with the Dash -9s. Kadee recommends using their 789 centerset assembly for the Dash -9s, so I tried installing one of these tonight on the rear of the loco. I noticed it sits too low when using the Kadee 880 track height gauge. So the new aluminum coupler box with its different offset tail shank may very will work best on the Dash -9, and I need to determine if an additional hole further toward the rear of the shank is necessary for allowing adequate coupler swing and proximity when coupled to a like kind loco, or other locos, or cars - particularly with the Dash-9's front pilot's snow plow in place.

Thank you,
-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Ok cool I'll take 3 sets for my SD45's that are in service. 
I'll send you my email and we can work out the details, it would be great if they'd work on the Dash- and E-8s.
Also any thought to making it out of a solid plastic block, say using injection molding?

Thanks, Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 07 Jan 2011 10:01 PM 
Ok cool I'll take 3 sets for my SD45's that are in service. 
I'll send you my email and we can work out the details, it would be great if they'd work on the Dash- and E-8s.
Also any thought to making it out of a solid plastic block, say using injection molding?

Thanks, Ron

Ron, I got your e-mail and replied.

As to the Dash 9s, virtual prototypical tight fit and preliminary results are surprisingly good, but I must do more evaluation. Other applications will have to wait for when I have time.


I have absolutely no intention of considering boxes made of plastic. I have what I need in the metal boxes.


-Ted


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ron, one of the reasons that Ted has made these is to reduce the vertical play, which is tough considering the shortness of the coupler shank. 

Plastic shrinks when cooling, and varies according to the way it's cooled when removed from the mold. 

Therefore, it's basically impossible to get the tight tolerances and dimensions to improve the situation that Ted can achieve with CNC machined aluminum. Do not forget you still have to deal with the tolerances on the plastic coupler shank. 

Regards, Greg


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Makes sence, I was just thinking of a way to bring down the costs and make them available to the masses. 

I really like what Ted has done it should take care of the flex in the coupler/posts on the SD45/GP40 for sure. 
It would also be great if it could work on the E8 and Dash-9 as well. 
Can't wait to try them out. 
Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Dash 9s with Datum Precision made coupler boxes & Kadee centersets

I equipped and tested a pair of Aristo Dash-9 locos with the same Datum Precision made coupler boxes using the same mounting hole location as used for the SD45 and GP40 application. (No alterations done other than trimming the unnecessary shank extension off like needed for the GP40) They worked excellently on my layout consisting of mostly circuitous 10 foot diameter curves.










The two locos shown above are coupled nose to nose on an 8 foot diameter track. This would be the worst case configuration. The inside ditch lights only touch if you push to force the locos all the way toward each other. On 10 foot diameter track there is noticeable space even when doing this.

Inserting and mounting the new boxes through the Dash-9 pilot opening is easier to do than the GP40 or SD45 since you don't have to angle the box as much. Just put it in an press down.











The Dash-9s' pilot / porch extensions tend flex a bit and have more or less a subtle warp to them, so in many cases I did shim the pilot attaching points like done on some of the GP40s & SD45s so as to get best coupler alignment with the Kadee gauge.











For the front pilot only, when using the Kadee 901 AAR "E" couplers, its underside, inboard ridge has to be trimmed to clear the front snow plow opening so it can reach its full swivel arc.











I made a *"FlipVideo" of the Dash-9s* (with GP40s) running on the layout pulling the 61 car test train. Since the camcorder does not include image stabilization, please excuse the jitter as I try to do things whilst moving about the layout. Hopefully, the "FlipShare" server will allow for general viewing - my first attempt to see if it works.


-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Looks Awesome Ted !!!

Ron

( I see you and Greg are still up, I thought that I was the only one up this late







)


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the update, Ted. They look very good and sounds like the performance is equal to or exceeds your expectations. 

For some reason, I couldn't open the video thoiugh.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a FYI, the video loaded and work fine on my system.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback - including about the video working. As you can tell, the video is associated with an email sent to Greg, so using it avoided another upload to the FlipShare server.



By the way, when optimizing coupler box installations on the Dash-9s, the pilots typically need adjusting. The following pictures are self explanatory:






















-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Hey Ted my boxes showed up today and I installed them on the rear of 2 of my SD45's. 
They fit perfectly and totaly eliminate all up and down coupler flex and moement, great job!!

Here are some pic's of the 2 SD45's back to back from above, from the side, and each with the kadee gauge;


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Ted did a great job on these,

Mine arrived today.

Im hopeful that i will get them installed for the upcoming show......









Thanks Ted.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Ted on the Dash-9's did you use the same 2 plastic shims as with the SD45's?

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron,

I' am not sure what you are asking about.
If you mean the 0.047 inch thick spacer washer that go on the mounting post, that is only used for the SD45 application. The step washer that goes on top of the hole of the box where it is screwed down is used on all applications.
If you mean the shims under the pilot attachment points, I used thin washers (shown in prior post pictures) for some of the Dash- 9s pilots, as needed. 
I used the Kadee white shims (0.010 inch thick) on some of the GP40's pilots. If needed, these can be used on the SD45s, too.

Aside from that,

One thing I discovered on the Dash-9s (actually, rediscovered) is that those air hoses near the pilot opening close to the couplers tend to break-off. When I first got one of the UP Dash-9s, it had been broken along with one of the ditch lights during shipping. So I had just CA glued it in place sometime ago. (I looked at some of my other Dash-9s and they seem to have wobbly hoses, too.)

Anyway, with the new coupler boxes and Kadees installed, when going around tight curves, the coupler can swing far enough and somewhat press against that hose. Now it did not fall off whilst running the test train, but I noticed it was weak and about to - so I fixed it using a piece of wire cut from a paper clip. See the method used in the following self explanatory pictures:






















When reinstalled the hose having the added strength of the wire, you can slightly reposition it at a slight angle, and or move it slightly to the right of the original location. 










-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Ted I was talking about the washer that sits on the post between the box and the post. 
That's the one I don't need on the dash-9 only for SD45 per your email.

I have to let everyone know that these boxes are great. They correct everything that's wrong with the SD45, GP40, Dash-9 couplers, and the installation is so easy.
It took me about 20 minutes to convert my 3 SD45 rear couplers and everything lines up perfectly on the Kadee gage.

Ted only had enough spares that I was only able to convert the rear couplers on my main active engines.
I would like to be able to convert all of my SD45's, Dash-9's and GP40's with these boxes, and I'm sure there are others as well.

Per Ted's post on Greg's site the minimum order for another batch is about 104 boxes (52 pair, 1 pair per Loco).

I need another 10 pair, 20 boxes, for my remaining engines. 

That means we need to get another 42 pairs to place the minimum order, making the price about $11 per box $22 per engine.
If there is greater interest the price per unit goes down.

I spoke with Ted and he will put us in touch with the Manufacturer once we have enough to fulfill a minimum order.

If you are interested, please make a post here or PM me on how many pairs you want and lets see if we can get enough to do another batch. 


Ron


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Ron, 

I'm in for twelve pair... PM for contact info. 

Michael


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 15 Jan 2011 08:24 AM 

Ron, 

I'm in for twelve pair... PM for contact info. 

Michael 

Ok got you down for 12 pair Mike, sent you a pm with info.

We are now at 27 pair,only 25 to go for a minimum order I'll keep everyone informed of the progress.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Quick Update, we are at 37 pair as of now, only 15 to go for a minimum order


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## RailCat (Apr 10, 2009)

I don't Have any Aristo locomotives. Could these be adaptable to USA Trains locomotives? I'm still in the design phase for my indoor layout but I know I'm stuck with 48" as a minimum radius (96" diameter). I haven't had a chance to try kadees yet but it sounds like they can be body mounted and used on 48" curves. I need to investigate more. I have an S4, a GP30, and I plan to get a GP9 when the tax refunds come back. I would also want to purchase a few extra sets for future acquisitions. My initial thought is that a block could be machined to replace the USAT mount and the kadee box could be mounted to that. Milling, drilling and tapping a block would be easy on a manual mill. Since the only CNC I know is our EDM, I would have to see if our mill guy would like to do a little job on the side in order to have boxes made. 

Scott


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

These boxes were made specifically for the Aristo GP40/SD45, and now also for Dash-9 because the mount is similar to the other 2 engines. 
I don't know if they will fit any USA products sorry.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron is correct. The Datum Precision made coupler boxes are intended for the Aristo products of GP40, SD45, Dash-9, with others yet to be evaluated. 

As to possible USAT use, this is to be determined. In this regard, I have noticed USAT diesels (like the GP9) appear to have the pilot opening cutouts for the couplers way too low. This is why Kadee recommends their large offset coupler. 

At the present time I only have two USAT locos (SD70s). 
If in the future I were to acquire a GP9, (or similar for coupler installs, GP30 & GP38) I would investigate possibilities, but unfortunately, because of the low opening, I believe surgery would be needed in order to facilitate centerset coupler mounting. 

-Ted


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## RailCat (Apr 10, 2009)

Darn, I've wondered about the height of the coupler opening. Thank you for your reply. 

Scott


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Ron - I don't seem to be able to message you any other way. As always, the reason will be "user error".

I would like two pair of the boxes (my needs are small). I presume you'll be able to contact me via MLS.

This'll be a big work-saver for me.

JackM


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By JackM on 16 Jan 2011 06:46 AM 
Ron - I don't seem to be able to message you any other way. As always, the reason will be "user error".

I would like two pair of the boxes (my needs are small). I presume you'll be able to contact me via MLS.

This'll be a big work-saver for me.

JackM


Ok Jack got you down for 2 pair, I'll send you a PM with the details.

That brings the total to 39 pairs only 13 to go for a minimum order.

Ron


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Well it looks like we are getting close..........


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Ron, 
Just sent you a message asking to be put on the list for 10 units. I will want more after the first of the month if possible. 
Thanks, Ted J. 
Ted Johnson 
Salome, AZ


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By chaingun on 20 Jan 2011 12:54 AM 
Ron, 
Just sent you a message asking to be put on the list for 10 units. I will want more after the first of the month if possible. 
Thanks, Ted J. 
Ted Johnson 
Salome, AZ 

OK Ted put you down for ten pair, that brings us to 49 pair.
I will wait to hear from you before I place the order, because this will be the last one for a while I'm sure. 
I want to make sure that everyone that wants to get in on the order does.

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

For those interested, the main* article* about the Datum Precision coupler boxes has been updated with added info., including Appendix A detail about the Dash- 9 application.

-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By chaingun on 20 Jan 2011 12:54 AM 
Ron, 
Just sent you a message asking to be put on the list for 10 units. I will want more after the first of the month if possible. 
Thanks, Ted J. 
Ted Johnson 
Salome, AZ 

Ted I never received the message, did you get the one I sent you? If so just send me an email at the address I sent you.
If not Ted D. has my email address also.
Ron


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## chaingun (Jan 4, 2008)

Ron, 
Sorry for the late response here but sense I did get you via email I forgot to post here so everybody following this thread would know we connected. Anyway its all good! 
Best,Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Just a quick update on the order status.

We are now at 59 pair!!!








That is enough to place an order with Datum. 
I spoke with John from Datum today and the unit price will be the same unless we get into the hundreds of pairs, so no need to wait any extended period before placing the order.

I plan on placing the order the first week of February so anyone else that wants in has until then to contact me.

The unit price will remain about the same at $22 a pair plus shipping. 
I can also order the washers and screws for the boxes and will include that in the final prices once I get that info.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

We are up to 61 pair now.

This will be the last week to contact me if you are interested in getting these couplers.

Next week I will get the final prices and email everyone their totals. 

Once I have received the funds from everybody I will place the order with Datum for the boxes.

John told me there will be about a 3 week lead time from when the order in placed to delivery.

Ron


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## russfox (Apr 11, 2008)

Hi Ron, 
I just sent you a private email. 
I would like to order 8 pair for the SD45s... if it is not too late. 
Thanks, 
Russ


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By russfox on 25 Jan 2011 12:22 PM 
Hi Ron, 
I just sent you a private email. 
I would like to order 8 pair for the SD45s... if it is not too late. 
Thanks, 
Russ 

OK Russ got you down for 8 pair's.

That brings us up to 69 pair







, 6 days left to get in on this order.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Russ got another 4 pair for his Dash-9s so that brings the total to 73 pair. 

Please remember that this order is only for the Datum Aluminum boxes you will still need the Kadee couplers to complete the mod. 

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

We are at 80 pairs now









There are a few days left for anyone that wants in.

For those on the fence times running out. Please keep in mind that after this order is complete, you will need a minimum of 50 pair to place another order.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

OK thats it for orders.

I will contact Datum tomorrow and get final prices and contact everyone with the info.

I plan on getting 3 screws (so we'll have a spare screw per pair of boxes) and a set of washers for each pair of boxes.

The only thing you will need to buy is the Kadee coupler sets, if you don't have them already.

Thanks, Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I contacted everyone today, by email or PM, with the final price per pair for the Datum boxes. Please send me your info to the email address I gave you.

Thanks, Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I PMed/emailed everyone with the final details and ordering info. 
Please respond ASAP as the sooner I hear from everyone the sooner we can submit the order to Datum. 

Thanks again, Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I placed the order with Datum today and John expects it to be completed in a few weeks time.

I will update you guys when I hear from John.

Ron


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks Ron,

My check should arrive to you shortly.

Cant wait to finish up the locos that need these boxs.


Ted did a great job.

And thank you for doing another run..........


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## Fox Island Railway (Mar 8, 2010)

Hi, is it too late to order these? I would like to place a large order. Thanks.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By Fox Island Railway on 09 Feb 2011 05:01 AM 
Hi, is it too late to order these? I would like to place a large order. Thanks.


Dear Fox Island Railway person,


By chance, have you seen the samples of the Datum Precision coupler boxes purchased by other individuals that tried them? 


How large of an order do you envision?

Please identify yourself by name. 


Thank you, 
-Ted


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*The Aristo ALCO RS-3 Applicaton:*










The Datum Precision coupler boxes can be installed on the Aristo RS-3, though this installation requires more time and effort compared to that of the drop-in application of Aristo's GP40, SD45, and Dash-9 locos using the same boxes.

The RS-3s include both the first generation production run locos (having fully suspended trucks) and the newer generations (having ball bearing trucks, MU cables, and internal "DCC ready" circuit board). Externally, the generations of locos look the same (except for end railings) and are virtually the same height. Both generations utilize the same techniques for installing the Datum Precision made coupler box assemblies.

The following is a self explanatory overview with annotated pictures for the Aristo RS-3 with Datum Precision made coupler boxes equipped with Kadee 901 centerset type couplers:










For added detail, including installation methods and operational results, see the full *article*, *Appendix B*, on Greg's web site.

-Ted


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## Fox Island Railway (Mar 8, 2010)

Posted By Ted Doskaris on 09 Feb 2011 09:09 AM 
Posted By Fox Island Railway on 09 Feb 2011 05:01 AM 
Hi, is it too late to order these? I would like to place a large order. Thanks.


Dear Fox Island Railway person,


By chance, have you seen the samples of the Datum Precision coupler boxes purchased by other individuals that tried them? 


How large of an order do you envision?

Please identify yourself by name. 


Thank you, 
-Ted 





Always fun joining a new forum...

About 20 pair or more.

~Eddie


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thank you Eddie, 

When Ron Bodner sees your post, maybe he can comment. You will have to decide exactly how many you want and submit your request to Ron - if there is still time to do so. 

-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Sorry Eddie the order has been placed already. 

Ron


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## Fox Island Railway (Mar 8, 2010)

Ron,

Can you shoot me an e-mail if you ever make any more??

~Eddie


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Added Aristo RDC Datum Precision coupler box application:

The RDC would seem less likely to be equipped with Datum Precision coupler boxes since the RDC is typically operated by itself, or maybe with another RDC. Therefore, the need for proper coupler alignment conforming to other train cars or locos (other than itself) would not seem to be critical - or would coupler box strength be as important like that of locos pulling heavy trains. None the less, the Datum Precision coupler boxes equipped with Kadee centerset couplers can be installed on the RDC, if only for aesthetic reasons whilst having alignment consistency with the Kadee coupler height gauge.




















For added detail, including installation methods and operational results, see the full article, *Appendix C* on Greg's web stie.

-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Nice work as usual Ted.

I'm really glad I bought extras.

Ron


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

missed the order if any one has 1 pr. extra that they might sell please let me know


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Talked with John at Datum today, and we are next in line for production








He said it should take about 3 days start to finish, then another 3 days to have them anodized, then a couple days to ship them to me.
Won't be long now!
I'll keep you guys updated.

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Comments about notching Aristo's RS-3 pilots for Datum Precision Coupler Box installation:

I have completed fitting Datum Precision coupler box assemblies with Kadee 901 centerset couplers to all six RS-3s that I have - the latest being the three D&RGW early production run, non ball bearing motor block units.










Of the six total RS-3s I have, I found that 75% of the pilots needed to be notched to some extent for obtaining proper coupler alignment with the Kadee coupler height gauge. For RS-3 pilots not needing to be notched, it is mostly due to those locos having an upward warp to the pilot end/s of the loco. 

Added detail has been included in Appendix B of the full *article*.

-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

I just got off the phone with John from Datum, the coupler boxes came back from the annodizer today and are complete.









He told me they will be shipped to me on Monday. I should have them by the end of the week.

Once they arrive I will let you guys know, and ship them out ASAP.

Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Good news!, John called and the Datum boxes shipped out today









Ted yours are ready for pick up from John.

I will email everyone when I get them and then ship the out to you ASAP.

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron,  

Thanks for your much appreciated efforts. 

I plan to pick up the boxes that I ordered through you in Grass Valley sometime by next Monday (Weather permitting). 

-Ted


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Hi All,

GREAT NEWS!!!!

The Datum Boxes arrived today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










I will go through the order when I get home on Friday and ship them out to everyone on Saturday.
One note John only sent me enough screws for the boxes we ordered there are no extras.
So you will only get one per box, no spares, so be careful with the tiny suckers









Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks Ron,

I picked up my order of 10 boxes from John at Datum Precision in Grass Valley, CA.

It turns out John ran extras as he felt it best to use up the material he had to get to do the complete order - so I decided to purchase the extra 30 boxes.










These 2nd production run CNC machined metal boxes were "tumbled", then black anodized, giving them a nice consistent satin appearance. 









If you don't already have the Kedees and parts needed to install in these new metal coupler boxes, consider getting the Kadee 907 kit.










I, too, only received just enough 2-56 x 5/16 SS screws for all coupler boxes I got.










-Ted


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## Russ (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Ted, 
I sent you a Private Email. 
Thanks, 
russ


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Ok Folks the Datum boxes are all shipped out to you as of today, you should receive them in a few days.
Please let me know when they arrive.

Thanks, Ron

PS Don't you hate when they raise the shipping and insurance rates After you've quoted everyone the price


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

How much of an increase? If it's more than a few cents, I'm more than willing to kick in some more dough. Last thing we should do is let someone, who provides something helpful to us, come out on the short end. 

JackM


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

It's no big deal, was increased about 75 cents per box, it's just annoying is all.









Ron


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Hmmmm.... 

I'm trying to drop Ron a note to let him know that my custom couplers arrived yesterday, but nothing works for me. I click on "Send Message" in the left column and I get an empty "send message" window but it won't accept what I type. I'm logged in, etc. I know, I'll try yelling.... 

HEY RON, I GOT 'EM. THANKS!! 

JackM


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Ron,

Thanks mine arrived.

And Thanks Ted for giving up

3 more of yours. I'm set now.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Always better to have a few to many than a few to few Nick









Ron


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Glad I could help everyone get these great up-grades. 

Ron


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Ron, 

Thank you for making the arrangements and spending all the time and effort it took for getting the DP coupler boxes for everyone. 

Much appreciated, 
-Ted


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

*New Application:* Aristo EMD E8 / E9 Passenger Locos Fitted with Datum Precision Coupler Box Assemblies
July 3, 2011
Ted Doskaris



It's been awhile since activity on this thread; however, folks still must be interested since there are 300+ views since then. So for anyone interested, see the description below.
*
**The Aristo EMD E8 / E9 Passenger Loco Application*

The locos in this application have Datum Precision (DP) made CNC machined aluminum coupler boxes fitted with Kadee couplers from Kadee no. 789 kits or the newer generation, AAR "E" types, from Kadee no. 907 kits. The no. 907 kit includes the Kadee no. 901 separately sold couplers. Both of these coupler types are "centerset" type couplers.

The example locos used include a pair of Southern Pacific (SP) E9s equipped with Datum Precision (DP) coupler boxes having couplers obtained from the traditional Kadee 789 kit and a pair of Union Pacific (UP) E8s equipped with DP boxes having the newer 901 couplers. Both traditional and newer couplers will work OK in either of the loco types. I chose to try both type couplers.

The Aristo E units with Datum Precision Coupler boxes and Kadees include locos having so called "freight pilots" and "passenger pilots"- whereby, the passenger pilot on the lower part of the front of the loco protrudes outward more so than the freight pilot version.

*Comparison Of Aristo Locos*

A comparison of locos equipped with factory Aristo knuckle couplers is shown in the following pictures to contrast installed DP boxes fitted with Kadees vs. Aristo's factory knuckle couplers:










Looking at the above and below pictures, note the drastic difference from the Aristo toy like separation between the noses and tails of the E units when coupled together.










*
The Datum Precision / Kadee combination with realism, also, performs.*

The more difficult arrangement of locos is to couple them nose to nose on curve track. 

Shown below is the SP E9 freight pilot loco fitted with the more recessed DP / Kadee coupler configuration coupled to an RDC-1.










Likewise, shown below is the UP passenger pilot loco fitted with a more projected DP/ Kadee coupler configuration to the same RDC-1.










*
Datum Precision coupler boxes fitted with Kadees*

The picture below shows the undersides of E8 UP unit on the top and the E9 SP unit on the bottom having been fitted with DP coupler box assemblies.










Shown below are various coupled configurations of the E units equipped with Datum Precision boxes having Kadee centerset couplers.










The "snapping action" cited within the above picture group of the flexible diaphragms when E units were coupled back to back (in compression) is virtually insignificant when operated on the layout.
*
Possible E8 / E9 Datum Precision Coupler Box Configuration Choices:*

There are several possible loco coupler mounting configurations to chose from. These include the freight pilot loco with and without front recessed coupler and the passenger pilot loco with and without front recessed coupler. The rear of both type locos uses the same coupler configuration.

Datum Precision Coupler boxes were initially developed for installation on the Aristo GP40 and SD45s. They were intentionally made with an extended shank for other applications at that time to accommodate an additional mounting hole. Accordingly, there are some E8 / E9 configuration applications that make use of an additional hole located just aft of the standard hole.

Shown below is the Datum Precision coupler box with the added mounting hole to the right of the standard hole. The additional hole (drill size 15/64 inch) is to be centered with and located 0.235 inches from the standard hole. 








Extreme care must be afforded to drilling technique so as not do damage (discussed in full article to be cited later). 

*Shown below are example Passenger Pilot configurations*









*
E8 / E9 Applications List - 
Based on Support Plates, Coupler Box Mounting Hole Location, Coupler Pin Shapes*

In order to accommodate the various possible E8 / E9 passenger & freight pilot configuration applications, "support plates" are used when mounting the DP coupler boxes, and, in some cases, modified Kadee coupler "pin shapes" are required. The pins are those metal items that emulate brake hoses and work with Kadee track magnets for uncoupling purposes.
The following application diagram references support "plate types" and pin "shape illustrations".











*Support Plate Purpose*

Installed Datum Precision coupler box assemblies have a two point anchor system. First, the box is placed over the pivot post where the original Aristo coupler had been removed. This is the primary anchor point. 








The picture above includes support plate type "P" shown under the DP coupler box. The support plate types are described later.

Support plates provide the second anchor point that facilitates alignment of installed coupler box assemblies - both horizontally (so the boxes don't swing side to side) and vertically (so the coupler is at the proper height from the rail head).

The picture below shows the freight pilot SP E9 on the left coupled nose to nose with the passenger pilot UP E8 on the right.
The bright metal support plates can be seen above the coupler boxes with the SP unit having a more recessed plate and coupler.









Shown below is the SP E9 underside view with the support plate (type "F") intended for the more recessed front pilot coupler configuration. This plate and coupler mounting configuration can, also, be used on the UP E8 front passenger type pilot, but the loco with this type pilot will not be able to coupler nose to nose with another E unit; however, it will work when coupled back to back or to a car.










Included in the picture below are the support plates intended for more outwardly projecting coupler box assemblies. Also, shown on the bottom of the picture are the rear support plates and coupler box assemblies.










*
Support Plate Types*

The user is to fabricate support plates for the configuration application that he wishes to use.
There are 3 types of support plates that I identify as type "F", "FS", and "P". These are described and shown in the picture below.









*Coupler Pin Shapes Illustration*

The user is to bend the Kadee coupler pins for the configuration application that he wishes to use.
Shown below are pictures of the Kadee coupler pins for a given configuration application (previously described).









*Operation*

At this time, I have not yet retrofitted passenger cars with Kadee couplers to try with the E units; however, using the long RDC-1 (also fitted with Datum Precision Boxes and Kadees) coupled with the E units on 8 foot diameter track proved successful - pictures of which were shown near the beginning of this post. They, also, operated successfully together pulling a 61 car train on the under house layout (shown below).









*Much more info.*

For any one interested in contemplating using the metal Datum Precision coupler boxes on the Aristo E units, the dimensional drawings along with plate fabrication and installation techniques, etc., can be seen with much more information within the full article on Greg E's web site.
Article appendix, *The Aristo EMD E8 / E9 Passenger Loco Application - Appendix D*

-Ted


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