# Bachmann K-27 Counterweights are in, but...



## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

they aren't easy to get.  My message to the Bachman on the Bachmann board (http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,4693.msg40212.html#msg40212):

Bach-man,

After delivering a beautiful K-27 and responding proactively by manufacturing replacement counterweights, your company stands to lose all its good will in the home stretch: customers actually acquiring the counterweights.  After reading this thread over the weekend, I called today when the Customer Service line opened.  I talked to "Parts" because the "G Scale" option went unanswered.  "Parts" had no idea what I was talking about, but checked with the large scale people.  "Send in your proof of purchase and registration card," I was told.  This after I'd already explained that I'd sent in the registration card.  Like others, I will have to dig for my receipt and, as I recall, it isn't itemized...just a charge for an amount appropriate for a K-27.  Will that be acceptible?  "Parts" didn't know.

So what's the point of the registration card which I dutifully sent in after I heard of the problem?  The response I expected was "Yes, Mr. Chama, I see from our database that you registered your locomotive and I have your address so we will be sending the replacement counterweights out immediately."  No such luck.  Does Bachmann think there are large numbers of people out here (who have already proven their possession of a K-27, at least at some point in time) who are just trying to figure out how to scam you out of a set of counterweights?  Of course.  They would be so useful in...scratchbuilding a K-27?

Nowhere on your web site can I find any description of how one rectifies what is, in fact, a Bachmann problem that has now become my problem.  I had hoped that in the weeks it took to get the first counterweights delivered, someone would have thought the process out.

As I said, you stand to lose much or all of the credit for delivering a beautiful model by this ineptitude in handling the replacement counterweights.  Quick action is needed.


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## Skip (Jan 2, 2008)

Send an email outlining what you need to Bridget at [email protected] She is the service manager, I understand. She'll likely ask for a copy of the receipt - I sent an email copy of my paypal receipt. I needed to talk to her to get trucks for my Connie, but stuff happened fast after she got a hold of it. That reminds me, I have to order parts for my shay /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul, 

Thanks for the info. However, why the heck do I have to hear this from another customer? The latest from the Bachmann web site under "Ask the Bach-Man" (certainly the first place you'd would think to look for information on how to get replacement counterweights) is that the confusion/suggestions/distress voiced by customers will be forwarded to their Customer Service department. 

It took me about 30 minutes to find my receipt. It is a charge slip from a major brick-and-mortar retailer that nowhere states that it is payment for a K-27. Just the amount and a reference number that ties back to their database so they know I bought a K-27, but this proves nothing to Bachmann. 

Some K-27's have already been resold. If you aren't the original purchaser and therefore don't have a receipt and even, perhaps, the registration card, are you out of luck? 

More questions than answers from Bachmann. 

And don't overlook my statement to Bachmann: 
- this is a beautiful locomotive at a great price 
- I'm not upset about the design flaw 
- I praise them from providing a robust solution (rather than some shim kit, etc.) 
but they stand to lose much of this goodwill by having no public plan for fixing the problem!


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

You can arrange to have your loco shipped to them at their cost, that way they can't dispute you have one  Of course you may be without your loco for a few weeks :-( 

I personally can see why they want proof, I know there are folks that would just like a set of the counterweights. Why, I don't know maybe to sell on ebay or because they are scratch building a K, etc.? I've been around long enough to know there are just a*holes in the world, and that's why sometimes good people have to jump through hoops. There are probably those who own a K that maybe want a second set for some reason. The question is, are there enough of these folks to justify getting the good customers a little upset? I don't know, but these did cost money to make, ship from China and then mailed out. 

As far as those that sent in a registration card, what if they wanted Bachmann to do the repair? Then Bachmann would incur the cost of sending the counterweights out and then also to have the loco shipped to/from them. Again, are there enough of these to justify not automatically sending out the counterweights to those who sent in their registration card?  As far as when calling in and wanting the counterweight shipped and the registration card sent in, I agree totally, they should have you in a database, otherwise, what is the use in the registration card?

I do find the flaw a bit upsetting, but that Bachmann bellied up to the bar, so to speak, I am very happy with my K and find it an extremely great bargain (i.e. price for quality - nothing I've seen comes close to this loco for $700 - with the counterweights fixed). Also, I think they did come up with a plan. Initially it was a shim kit, but they listened to their customers and opted for the counterweight fix AND will pay shipping both ways to have it fixed. Has it been a perfect plan? I don't know if there is such a thing as a perfect plan, and if there is then there needs to be the perfect execution of the perfect plan. While doing all of this Bachmann needs to remain profitable or it was all for nothing, or we'd have another major G manufacturer going bankrupt. 

I'm trying to see both sides, as an owner of a K that wants the correctly fitting counterweights and the fact that Bachmann is willing to fix the problem but requiring proof of purchase.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Got an answer this morning, and posted the data. 
This is easier than service is making it: 

*[url]http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/board/index.php/topic,4693.0.html*[/url]


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

"Curmudgeon," 

I don't see an answer at that link. Your post there says to send you a personal email and you'll forward it to someone who can make it happen. This is the process? How cryptic can it be? I sent an email to Bachmann Customer Service last noght per the suggestion earlier in this thread. That email was read at 8:24 this morning. I will post an update if and when I get a reply. 

I won't be sending a personal email to a second party, no matter how well connected (but thanks for the offer). That isn't a system, that's a patch at best. 

jimtyp: First, there is no more information available about how one would ship them the entire loco than there is about just getting the counterweights, so even if one wanted to go that unreasonable route, it isn't an option. Second, all I expected is the route you agree with: if you sent in the registration card (which sort of proves you had the loco at one point!) and ask for the parts, they should send them out at that point without the further hassles (and non-responsiveness so far).


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Not a problem. 
Next, write a letter to Bud Reece, CEO, Bachmann Industries, 1400 E. Erie Ave, Philly. 
This was faster. 
Probably would have gone out tomorrow.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By chama on 03/05/2008 3:43 PM
... there is no more information available about how one would ship them the entire loco than there is about just getting the counterweights ... 

Sorry, I was joking that they'd have to accept that as a proof. I realize folks are upset, so maybe it was a bad joke. Yes, it seems Bachmann wants the phone lines flooded? Apparently this must be the first time they've ever done something like this and are not prepared?


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Many years of experience. 
If you expect a response via e-mail from service, well, good. 

Too many on various forums never get any response at all. 

Best is phone, followed by FAX, followed by letter, lastly e-mail. 

If you've had success, great.


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## Guest (Mar 6, 2008)

Posted By chama on 03/05/2008 3:43 PM
"Curmudgeon," 



I won't be sending a personal email to a second party, no matter how well connected (but thanks for the offer). That isn't a system, that's a patch at best. 

A Patch or a  "Connected"- "Advocate"?


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## Paul A. Torrey (Jan 6, 2008)

Bottom line is Bachmann should be making this process easy for their customers not hard or cryptic.  In this day and age everyone deals with emails in business.  That way they have a record of who emailed and then they can link this up with their database of warranty cards and simply send out the parts.  It's not that hard.  

It needs to be easier.  

I took TOC up on his option.  We'll advise on how successful it was.

Thanks,

Paul Torrey


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I am hoping someone high up in the organization has shaken some sense into some of those further down. 
An e-mail I got last night indicated the counterweights for those who took me up on the offer should ship this morning. 

This was not supposed to be how it worked. 

BTW, the offer to transmit information ends this Sunday. 

At that point I am hoping the Service Department will have picked up the slack.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Curmudgeon on 03/06/2008 10:52 AM

...At that point I am hoping the Service Department will have picked up the slack.


Is that going to be you?  Seems you're the only one providing any service.  Keep it up.  What you've done...and what you are doing...are greatly appreciated.


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## gnichols (Jan 9, 2008)

Wouldn't it be FAR easier if Bachmann sent the counter weights out to all their dealers and let them mail you the parts for free, based on their sales records, right to your address? Gary


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## jlyans (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Dave. Your offer and expertise is greatly appreciated. 
John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gary, no offense, but if you think all dealers have accurate records of where you live, it just ain't so. 

The best idea I have heard so far is that the mail in registration card would activate the shipment automatically. I have a DCC system, and you get notified because of your warranty card. I think it's a great incentive to fill them in, when they really mean something and have some benefit. 

Maybe this will happen in the future with other companies. 

Regards, 

Greg


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## railgeek (Jan 15, 2008)

Why make it easy? 
It's a design flaw on Bachmann's behalf. 
They should be recalling all locos at thier cost, fix the design issue, repair all engines. The current engine at their factories need to be quanrantined and no shipped until all are corrected. 
Still P.O.ed that they would ship this engine with defects.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

They have offerred for those with more than the normal compliment of thumbs the option of returning the loco at their expense to have it repaired. 
They have, in fact, "quanrantined" the current engines, fixed them, and shipped them. 

I don't know what else they could have done AFTER the fact. 

Now, before the fact, they might need to review WHO they listen to, and maybe ask questions OUTSIDE the particular grouping of folks they use now. 

Just a thought.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Unfortunately, I'm in Arizona and all of my paperwork on my K is back home. I'm not even sure if the paperwork identifies the purchase of the K. I think that all I have is credit card statements. Since I paid a partial deposit in November and the balance in January when I received the engine, neither statement accurately reflects the purchase price. I did send in the registration card, but it appears that won't be sufficient. 

Fortunately, I put in the shims before I left. 

Chuck N


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## Paul A. Torrey (Jan 6, 2008)

Dave,

I received the counterweights in the mail on Monday.  Unfortunately I've been out of town since Monday and won't have a chance to do the rework until Saturday.  I'm assuming all will go well and everything will be right in the world.

Thanks for your help...

Regards,

Paul Torrey


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## chama (Jan 2, 2008)

My counterweights arrived Thursday. Possibly due to the email I sent to Bridget with an image of my receipt (2 weeks ago), but more likely due to Dave's intervention (last week, thanks!).


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## Wendell Hanks (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anyone want to refute the need to simply, and politely, ask Bachmann to ask Kader to hold shipping their locos until someone actually run-tests a random sampling of locos to discover what we have discovered. Note: Dave Goodson's running a post-shipment loco as a test showed the problem quickly. 

This repetitive problem of shipping without testing -- the Bach-mann does indicate tests are not done prior to shipment. zThe corporate reference is no testing. The reason offered is costs. To hold a loco production for, what?, five hours prior to shipment processes to test-run will be too costly? That conclusion, to me, makes absolutely no sense. 

Look at the damage to Bachmann from this recent flap re: counterweights. 

Does anyone now trust the company to produce a product that does not have some easily remedied flaw? 
Why continue to use the trusting, the I want it now, the devoted, to do the testing for the company -- after their purchase? 

Wendell 

Write your own response -- a positive response to simply ask for pre-shipment testing. Simple? 

Wendell


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## JerryB (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry Wendell, but I won't be participating in your campaign. Two primary reasons: 1. Bachmann has already told you that it is too expensive; 2. I don't want to pay higher prices for the RR stuff I buy. 

Yes, we would all like to have the locomotive we purchase be absolutely 'perfect', but that just isn't going to happen in these days of highly automated 'just in time' manufacturing. And these kinds of manufacturing problems are not unique to Bachmann nor to LS model railroad equipment. Some current examples: Accucraft's passenger cars with several design and manufacturing defects, Microsoft's Vista, where lots of folks continue to have serious problems, and even the drugs that are made in China apparently using whatever the government controlled companies want to put in them. I'm a lot more concerned over the last two items than any model RR equipment shortcomings. 

After all the bashing of Bachmann over the secrecy and what many considered to be inappropriate delays in shipping the K27, one defect that Bachmann has now rectified is pretty insignificant. I hope Bachmann and other manufacturers will continue to develop and produce affordable 1:20 scale equipment. I think to keep this equipment affordable we customers need to be prepared to take some of the risks. I just hope your continuing attack on Bachmann doesn't doom the availability of their basically fine equipment! 

Happy RRing, 

Jerry


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I have to agree with JerryB regarding Bachmann. I own a Connie and have done some major work to both the tender (those flimsy trucks!). That's part of the hobby. I also just purchased an Accucraft D&RGW $346. The Connie was $250 and the Accu was over $2200. I still have to have the Airwire and Phoenix sound installed! Two extremes obviously. Realistically NOTHING is perfect in manufacturing. Large scale is a very small segment of model railroading. The customer base is very small. I'm very happy to see the investment risks that ALL of the companies take. AND i am very happy to see the variety of stock available in 1:20.3 and I don't want to discourage this trend. Chill a little and enjoy the hobby we all love!


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## Wendell Hanks (Jan 2, 2008)

Would those who accept Bachmann or Kader's policy of NOT testing samples prior to shipment, feel OK if Bachmann knew of the problems prior to shipment and simply shipped them anyway? 

I doubt they would do so. However, what's the difference in outcome? 

The claim the price of the product would go up because of a 5 - 6 hour delay, is not accurate. What MAY be accurate is could be flaws Bachmann or Kader does not want to know about and if known, the corrective action supposedly would cost more. 

Not true. Check the cost of this foible with the K-27. Cost in image -- ouch! -- cost in mailing, personel messing with the calls, the image from nearly four pages of frustrated postings on this site alone. The cost is great. 

Those who say I agree with Bachmann that it would cost more to not discover any problems before shipping customers their locos, is counterproductive to consumer goals. 

Wendell 



If the flaw were known, a set of the correcft weights could have been included in each box OR each mailorder company would include them.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Heres my take from Bachmanns perspective on theyre part, of the problems they are encountering!YouTube - Alien Song - I Will Survive


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I had forgotten about that video... saw it many years ago and laughed so hard I fell out of my chair and caused quite a commotion where I worked. People thought I'd had a heart attack (actually I was probably pretty close to doing so!).


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys,

Remember what Robert Burns said, “Best laid plans o' mice an' men gang aft agley”..

BulletBob


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## Sourdoh (Jan 6, 2008)

An interesting sidelight to the counterweight issue: I received my counterweights yesterday. I thank Bachmann for them, but I would like to feel that there are actual human beings at Bachmann! I didn't hear anything from Bachmann customer service when I sent in my request with a copy of my sales receipt from RLD Hobbies. I waited weeks to hear that they had received my request. Nothing. So I emailed them again with a copy of the first note. Nothing. Not a peep. I then decided that my request went into a dark hole somewhere, so I just gave up. A month passed. A few weeks later, they arrive! Still no actual humans involved as far as I can detect.


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## jbram (Jan 18, 2008)

HUMMMM: 

Seems like yesterday that the Shay was first released, got me hooked on LS. Swapped a few trucks, made my own modification for the Climax shaft binding, fixed the truck on my Connie tender, modified the drive shaft on my Berlin work Goose. 

Finally got a K and Heisler this week, (Heisler in box for BD). Haven't run the K but checked the cranks and they are looose. Called Irv, cranks in mail. Read the news, got my cutters sharpened. 

As usual, Dave is correct, Kader is twisting Bachmann again and blowing more smoke than their engines. 

I WILL keep buying their 1:20 products because they are a reasonable value for the cost, and can be made an excellent product with a little hobby effort. ( I love this hobby). 

Got to go, it's beer time somewhereeere! 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
John


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## jbram (Jan 18, 2008)

To all of U that have had trouble with Bachmann service: 

In my post earlier I mentioned that I had called Irv. That was yesterday Friday the 11th. When I got home from work today Saturday the 12th there was a package of counter weights waiting for me. 

Dealings with Bachmann have always been satisfactory, they have made good on every product question I have had. 

My only disapointment is the promises made in the contest a few years ago. I won a Caboose (yet to be seen). 

Now that the cars are out I'll buy them when I can and be happy to have them. 

I think about the same way TOC does and have had my share of time talking with Lee and Bud. 

It's not a perfect world, but I think some folks are trying to make it better. 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
John


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