# Looking for a Lil' Diesel...



## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok...used to be, it was just the Bachmann big hauler and a couple of Lionel 0-4-0 switchers. 
Front truck on the big hauler is a pain, and the Lionel Loco's are a tad on the old side, but
they did well enough.

Then I picked up a couple of the Mack Switchers. I *like* these little guys. They run good -
but they don't have the pulling power of my other loco's. So...I am thinking of upgrading
to a bigger diesel. Just a bit bigger. Situation is:

1) The way my layout is set up, I am pretty much limited to a locomotive and ten cars -
maybe eleven cars if I use the shorter ones. The big hauler and the 0-4-0's can tow that 
many; the Macks can manage maybe five or six. So...I'm looking for something that can
pull ten cars, no problem.

2) Mechanical reliability. This is what I really like about the Macks.

3) I have some money, but not a mint. Looking for something I could reasonably expect to
find at an internet barn or on EBAY for $100 - $200.

4) Most of my rolling stock is 'Bachmann Scale', whatever that is, plus I use Bachmann 
couplers. So I need something that either has Bachmann compatible couplers on it 
already, or can be converted to such without a great problem, and don't look ridiculous
next to Bachmann sized rolling stock. Not a rivit counter, just looking for something...
close. Not picky about era, either.

5) I use R1 turnouts, and all but a few of my curves are R2. I'm looking for 
something that can handle all this without appearing absurd or complaint.

So...what should I focus on here? 

I've noticed that LGB has a number of small diesel 
switchers that sometimes turn up on EBAY for a reasonable price - but would they have
the pulling power I'm looking for - and are they mechanically reliable? 

I don't have anything Aristo: is the size difference that great? How big a chore to swap
out couplers?

I've seen a few Lionel diesels on EBAY - but I know nothing about them in terms of pulling 
power, comparative size, and mechanical reliabliity.

Other brands? I have seen a couple of oddball ones come and go on EBAY, but...

Well, at the moment, the LGB not quite center cab switchers look the most interesting, 
but I figured checking here would also be a good idea.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

did you try, if your macks tow better with an additional pound of weight under the hood?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have 2 great pulling lil diesels. One is the LGB davenport and it has been made in several road names. Older ones are heavier (Lead weights). These have been on E-bay for $100 to$300.

The other is the USA 20 tonner, no longer in production, but sold for under $100 when new. This unit has switches for lights, smoke, and lights. This engine does use a standard USA motor block and many parts from the 44 tonner in stock.


So, in your price range, this 20 tonner is a great fit.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Thinker;

Does the scale matter? The AristoCraft center cab (I call it an RS 3/4) will handle the curves and should pull the number of cars you require. It is 1:29, but a freelance design. You could probably fudge by adding a larger cab to the locomotive. I still use mine with the track cleaner car. It is a hard locomotive to stall.

There are also the LGB 2090 series 0-4-0 diesels in this price range. They can be tweaked into a more "North Americanized" appearance. A couple photos of my LGB 2090 are below. Please excuse the horns and headlights. These detail parts were unavailable when I converted my locomotive, so I "rolled my own" using brass tubing, brass rod stock, HO industrial lamp shades, and HO oil drums. I have sold it since taking the photos. NOT because it was a bad locomotive. I've simply changed my focus.



















Yours,
David Meashey


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't have one, but I have heard a lot of good things about this Bachmann diesel:
Davenport

I know you said "Diesel" but your post lists lots of "STEAM". Bachmann just did this 2-4-2T and it has metal gears, but is small and would look good with your other bachmann cars:

2-4-2T 

I handled one of these at the ECLSTS and it was heavy. You might be able to add more weight to it, considering the drive train should be able to hold up. Plus, it will do the R1 curves. 

Oh, and the USAT 44-tonner will do R1's OK. I'm thinking the S-4 would also work, but someone with an S-4 will have to comment on running on R-1s.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanx all. 

Korm: I will have to try sticking some weights 'under the hood' of the Macks. They do got them hollow spaces.... 

Dan: That Davenport (along with its cousins) was already on my list. It might have moved up a notch. 

Dave: No, I'm not real particular on scale. That makes the Aristo center cab look interesting...main deal would be 
how much of a pain to change out to Bachmann couplers? I've also been eyeballing those LGB loco's as well. 

Mark: Most of the Bachmann Davenports I've seen look a tad spendy. As to the 2-4-2's...isn't that what the recent excitement at the Bachmann site was about? They do sound awfull interesting, and depending on how things go (dicey situation at work coming up that might curtail a whole bunch of plans) I might or might not look into picking one up down the road. But for now, my interest is with the small, reliable diesels. 

Ahhh..historically speaking, I envision my completely fictional far northern railway as one that just barely squeaked through the economic downturns that killed the likes of the 'Copper River Railway' and the 'Klondike Mines RR'. They did so because the local communities along the line effected a partial takeover (they found the railway useful for *their* purposes, not just the mine work the tracks were originally set down for) and because they largely converted over from steam to small 'industrial' type diesels (on grounds of penny pinching). Like everything else here in the north, the railway is strongly effected by the season; not much traffic in the winter; things going full tilt in the summer. Because of this seasonal demand, a couple of steam locomotives are still kept on the roster (the one 0-4-0 for backup work and switching, the 4-6-0 for 'special occasions'/'mainline backup'), but by and large it is small diesels doing...pretty much everything. (I see a sort of 'community club' of a few dozen older guys working 'on the side' to keep the steam loco's running). 

(not really sure how feasible that is, but it is what I'm operating under).


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The little LGB KOeF is not a strong puller as is, but uses a standard LGB "Stainz" type motorblock. Weight can be added.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm...looks like I was wrong about the Bachmann Davenports (for some reason I was thinking of that other diesel they have...or imaybe 'had'). Some of those do look affordable... 

The USA 44 tonners are also looking interesting. Decisions, decisions...


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Do not forget that the LGB power tender can be added to the 2090 to double the pulling power plus you get to tie the 2 together electrically for much better power pickup.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Two thoughts behind that: tender behind a diesel......and LGB 2090s do not have rear electrical sockets from the factory. 

What can be done, and what was done on some lines in Germany (but not so much here) was run two small diesels back to back, giving two "fronts" for control and more pulling power without the problems of a bogie type diesel. 

Two examples, the prototype for the upcoming Trainline45 Deutz diesel now at the DEV museum (nee Euskirchener Kreisbahnen) as their number V3 used to be run as a pair. 

http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/read.php?17,4543907 

And also the Gmeinder built (not sold in G, I have one in a smaller scale tho) V22-1/2 pair on the SWEG-Jagsttalbahn. This pair of locos was known as the Jagsttal-Krokodil locally: 

http://www.jagsttalbahn.de/krokodil.html 

Now, could you take a pair of the Bachmann Davenports (remember they are 1:20 and will be a bit overscale to your cars) or the LGB or even your excellent HLW Mack and run them as a multipule unit (and if so inclined, electrically interconnect them)? Sure. Might be the most inexpensive way to do this too, especially with the Macks as even the little LGB KOeFs are increasing in cost in the secondhand market.


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## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Hi TT:

I have been a somewhat similiar path regarding small diesels. My small loop has 6-7 ft dia curves and R1 switches into the siding, so I can't run large motive power. So I have in increasing power order:

- the Mack- as you said a nice little engine
- The USA trains GE 44 tonner- found used for $60 at a show, no doubt run a lot, but seems dependable, and can pull a fair share of cars, tho I have not tried to test it's limits. ALso fond of this design.
- The USAT NW-2. I just like the NW-2, and this one new at black Fri last fall in the 200+range, is a hauler. Pulls anything I attach to it, does my less then perfect track work, and actually has best smoke of my collection. 

I was tempted by the Davenport at ECLSTS last fall, but resisted. Ended up with the BM 0-4-0 instead both at great prices, BTW.

eEgarding couplers, one of my ongoing "issues", I have a bag of BM couplers that I sometimes mount on rolling stock and/or locos and seem to do OK. I have left the Mack with hook and loop and use a transition car if I want to pull a string. The 44 tonner came with knuckles of uncertain origin, and works well. The NW 2 came with hook and loop and USAT knuckles in a bag. I left H&L on one end and put USAT knuckle on other end, seem to work with both BM and AC couplers, tho sometimes have to lift up closed coupler and drop to get them attached. 

Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

Jerry


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

LGB Davenport (2063) is a superb engine imho and in your price range-smooth reliable and a pretty good puller


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

I think with some tweaking the Bachmann coupler can be mounted on the AristoCraft centercab. I went the Kadee route, so I never got to try putting a Bachmann coupler on that locomotive. 

Yours, 
David Meashey


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB power tender can have a plastic box installed and painted around it and look like a 2 axle freight car. It is just a suggestion that can work. 

I always add power pickups to my little engines to improve power pickup. Works for me as I am and will stay with track power DC and DCC.


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

TT, 

Be VERY VERY careful when removing the hoods from the HLW. I broke the tab off one of the hoods on mine and had to 'make do' another mounting method. It does pull much better with a bit of lead (didn't weigh mine). 

Bob C.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

T a good dismal is hard to find. Macks make up the backbone of my roster. Aristo's centercab would be a good choice based on my use of its bricks for bashes and definitely will pull more than 10 cars as will the USA switchers. Forget about a Kof way overpriced for a plastic shell over a Stainz drive. You could get an Accucraft Plymouth for the same coin. I don't know what couplers your using. I have a Plymouthfied HLW Mack that needs a home but it has Ozark link/pin couplers. PM if interested. Vic


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Vic...currently I am using Bachmann knuckle couplers...because that is what the bulk of my rolling stock came equipped with (I do have a few with Lionel couplers, but they are compatible with the Bachmann brand). Converting to Kadee's is on the someday list; I actually have *almost* enough kadee's to do the job now, but dang is it easy to launch those little springs into the 5th dimension! 

At the moment, the USA 44 tonners look to be the most interesting....though I am still eyeballing the Davenports. 

But thanx for the offer.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I prefer the Aristo myself, mostly because it looks like it could be a narrow gauge type engine, that USA 44tonner is a very specific standard gauge prototype and 1/29 scale to boot, so its way outside the realm I'm working in. Still its a good engine, good luck with it!


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Anybody know much about the Bachmann 45 tonner? 1:20 might make it a bit oversized compared to the rest of my stuff...and I don't know about the couplers...but if it is reliable mechanically I could live with that. 

Still keeping my options open...


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 21 Jun 2011 02:17 PM 
Forget about a Kof way overpriced for a plastic shell over a Stainz drive. You could get an Accucraft Plymouth for the same coin. 


Vic 


Find me one for $40 Vic....that is what my last KOeF cost







. 

Forgot about the Accucraft Plymouth. They are a nicely detailed model and thought of getting one when I was going to switch over to 1:20 back in '08. Thanks for the memory jog!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 21 Jun 2011 07:19 PM 
Anybody know much about the Bachmann 45 tonner? 1:20 might make it a bit oversized compared to the rest of my stuff...and I don't know about the couplers...but if it is reliable mechanically I could live with that. 

Still keeping my options open... 



They were big...no, huge. Here is one getting ready to eat an LGB Feldbahn diesel. http://www.gscalecentral.co.uk/f/m73633.aspx

They do run well (from what has been posted) and for a time could be bought for almost nothing, but have not seen one listed in years.....but then I was not looking for one.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanx Garret! 

Dang that 45 tonner is *huge*...and it does seem to be looking at that LGB unit over for a snack. Probably eat one of the Macks when I'm not looking. 

R2 curves recommended, but will handle R1...hmmm...well R2 actually is better all the way around, at least half of the few R1 curves I have are actually switches...but this one might be a tad too big...might have to rework clearances in a couple of the tighter spots.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Garrett I can't even begin to guess where you found an LGB Kof for the price of a Mack.The last one I saw at the BTS was almost $500! 

You guys think the Bmann centercab is big, check out Accucrafts new centercab its even bigger!


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Almost went for a USA 44 tonner on EBAY...and probably would have, were it not for Vic's comment on the size of the cab. Had to agree with him after a closer looksee... 

At the moment, it is looking like a toss up between the Bachmann Davenport or the Aristo Center Cab... 

Plus side for the Davenport is its Bachmann and seems to have a good rep here. Should be fully compatible as far as couplers and whatnot goes Minus side...don't really look like a mainline engine to me, more like something you'd find at a really big industrial site...which is where you'd also find Macks... 

Plus side for the Aristo Center Cab...well...it has a good rep here, definitely would seem to have the pulling power, and looks more 'mainline-ish' than the Davenport. Minus side...it might look small compared to my 'Bachmann Scale' rolling stock, plus I'd have to change out the couplers... 

decisions, decisions...


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

You won't be disappointed with either one. Personally, I like the Davenport and have several of them, but that's 'cause I'm a big fan of little critters and they serve well on a mining/logging theme layout.


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Depending on your interest, another thought is building something you like.

I have a USA Mighty Moe to kitbash into a 3-axle engine using an Aristo brick I picked up. Once rebuilt it will have an appearance similar to the olf ATSF CF-7's, or the new NS BP4, only with a shorter long hood. If I was looking at R1/R2 usage, I would think about using a USA brick which the floppy axle.
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Just an aside about the shear size of the Bmann centercab, it was discovered that if you removed the sideframes and siderods, you could slide out the wheels to match F scale standard gauge track! They then added modified sideframes back on and you got an instant F-scale dismal in standard gauge!


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

To add to what Victor wrote, I believe that I read somewhere that the prototype was a standard gauge 44 tonner that had been fitted with narrow gauge trucks. I know that one member of our local club purchased this locomotive at a bargin price, then found that it would not fit through most standard tunnel portals made for large scale. I have also read that it had a habit of hitting lineside structures and signals. 

It's a good engine, but the purchaser must be willing to change the clearances on his/her entire railroad. 

Fun stuff, 
David Meashey


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

It's a good engine, but the purchaser must be willing to change the clearances on his/her entire railroad. 


That was my biggest concern. That Bachmann 45 tonner looks like it would actually sideswipe cars on some of the sidings I have, plus, despite my best efforts, I do have some tight clearances left. They're not tight enough to be a significant problem with what I have...but with that beast...hmmm... 

Just an aside about the shear size of the Bmann centercab, it was discovered that if you removed the sideframes and siderods, you could slide out the wheels to match F scale standard gauge track! They then added modified sideframes back on and you got an instant F-scale dismal in standard gauge! 

That does make sense. The one and only 1:1 45 tonner I saw (in Valdez, when the pipeline was being built) looked awful small compared to other locomotives I'd seen - but the Bachmann model would make even 1:20 diesels look...small. They might have been better off leaving it in F scale standard guage, and making it part of a set with track and everything.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The USA Trains Mighty Moe is the USA 20 tonner. Moe was the set name, 20 tonner the engine in the set. 

When at shows, the 20 tonner was $50 when I bought mine new from Charles Ro.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Finally bit the bullet and ordered the Aristocraft Center Cab from a discount barn. Price was near the top end of my range, but it is supposed to come with a caboose as well... 

Hmmm...didn't Vic bash a caboose into a passenger car a while back?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 21 Jun 2011 09:50 PM 
Garrett I can't even begin to guess where you found an LGB Kof for the price of a Mack.The last one I saw at the BTS was almost $500! 


eBay all the day, in fact, one went for $61 in the sidebar when I posted this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...2473190423

Good luck with the Aristo Center Cab. To me, they always looked to me like some diesel Alco SHOULD have built.....


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah now I know where the confusion came from. When I was saying Kof I was referring the new model that costs an arm and leg, not the older little siderod engine.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"When I was saying Kof I was referring the new model that costs an arm and leg" 

OMG! Does that mean a lot of us will become the registered disabled to stay in large scale? Well, maybe only those who favor European models. Anyway, it could mean that a lot of layouts will have to be raised to 36 inches off the ground and be wheelchair accessible. (JUST KIDDING!)









I'm just going to buy stuff that costs money, and probably do more scratchbuilding and kitbashing. 










Because it was built mostly from stuff I already had on hand, the Balrog Catcher cost less than $15.00.

Best wishes, 
David Meashey


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Thought does cross my mind, though: 'as is' that Bachmann 45 tonner is probably 7/8ths scale or close enough to it to make no real difference.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually, it is 1:20,3 but is a std gauge loco in the 1:1 world that was re-gauged for narrow gauge by simply switching trucks.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

The aristo center cab unit made it here today - finally. (Why do these discount barns use Fed Ex? Its not 
any faster than the USPS and costs three times as much.) 

Runs good; has the pulling power I was looking for. Didn't like one of my switches, but I deem that a 
solvable problem. The cab is smaller than whats on my other locomotives...but not real glaringly so. 
Any figure I put on the walkways though, will have to be turned sideways. Again, though, I deem that a 
minor issue. I can live with the aristo couplers on the locomotive, at least for now. There might be a 
way I can mangle Bachmann or Lionel couplers to fit at a later date. 

Now to figure out what to do with the caboose it came with: nicely detailed, but aristo couplers and plastic 
wheels...and much smaller than my other two cabeese...


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