# Tuahiwi Valley summer works



## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

I’m on a mission this summer to complete the top loop of the railway. It’s only been 4 years in the planning – I’m aiming to have it done for an open house in mid January.

At the moment the track stops just past the end of the trestle on the left, the idea is to join it to the track at the bottom right going in behind the hills. I set up a small section RoW at the lower level a few years ago, you can just see the conduit heading up the grade.










Starting point at the top.










Starting (finishing?) point at the bottom.. I’ll need to build a curved turnout here to fit the existing track.










The climb is 0.55m over 18m so average grade is about 3% but the ruling will end up at 4% once the transitions are counted. I want to put a passing loop in so I’ve allowed 6 m section of minimal grade for that.

The back side isn’t so pretty – it was a handy spot to put some spare rocks..



















Once these were moved (apart from three I couldn’t dream of lifting back up from the ground) I uncovered more of an early grade that I had forgotten about. Unfortunately the timber stakes had rotted so it was no particular use.










Trenching followed last weekend, I use PVC pipe for setting out the grade. Yes it was a crappy day..



























All going well I’ll get some roadbed in this weekend.

Cheers
Neil


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

WOW that looks great. 

JJ


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks JJ. Things are nice and green at the moment but it'll all go brown before xmas.. 

Looking forward to finishing this section, mainline will go from 100' to about 300'. 

Cheers 
Neil


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Progress..

I pretty much use the pipe and crusher fines method Kevin S outlined in GR several years ago, with some minor variations that’ve evolved along the way. I’m near sea level in a temperate climate – no frost heave or serious heat to deal with and it has stood up well for 5 years so far. Touch wood.

The grade is set with the wooden stakes, the pipe is tied to 10mm rebar driven a foot or so into the ground with copper wire, galv. steel tie wire rusted away after a few years on some early sections I did.










I left the wooden stakes in, too much hassle to get out. Extra drainage when they finally rot away.. The trench is pretty rough as you can see.










The crusher dust is mixed to a slurry in a concrete mixer, then shovelled/poured into the trench. Extra formwork was created as I went with bricks as needed. (PPP







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The slurry got worked into the crevices with a stick and a float, then I smoothed the surface off just above the pipe. 










After a few days it’d dried out hard enough to walk on without leaving any marks. The rebar sticking up got dug out with a screwdriver then got the 4” cutoff wheel treatment.



















So far so good. Need to get some track ordered.

Thanks for looking.


Cheers
Neil


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## Narrow Steam (Dec 1, 2011)

WOW, this is a real credit to you. Nice work. would love to have a layout like that one day.


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Neil 

Nice to hear from you again. Your railroad is looking great. I really like the smooth gentle curves the plastic pipe gives your Rail Road. I have given up on the original use of the plastice pipe on about half my layout. In winter the frost heave lifts it up above the ballast, and it is problematic to get back down. In Summer especially where the sun hits the rail most of the day, there is too much difference between the expansion of the pipe and the expansion of the rail and I get some bad heat kinks and even torn plastic ties where I have screwed through the tie. I have found a simple wire bent over the tie with one end anchored to the pipe to be more forgiving and adjustable, but still have enough straight track to show up heat kinks, and the various expansion joints I have built did not solve the problem. I think your layout with the gentle curves is the smart way to go and should handle heat expansion better. 

How do you fasten the track to the pipe, if you do? It's cold and snowy outside right now and your backyard looks pretty inviting. Do you superelevate your curves? 

Terl


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Terrific work Neil, The ground covering and dwarf spruce trees really look good. That will be a nice addition to the layout. Some nice long stretches for that Mallet the rail road has on order! i like the method of mixing the crushers into a slurry before pouring them in the ditch. It prevents lots of settling and let you get a smooth level surface. I'm going to try that this spring minus the plastic pipe for the reasons Terl stated. Keep us posted. It's looking great!


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

Looks great. 

Its funny, Neil is talking about his summer project and us Northern Hemisphere people are preping for the winter.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks guys. 

Nice to hear from you too Terl, I wondered if I should credit you with coming up with the initial method - I figured most folk would remember the GR article if they saw it. 

I think the key is the moderate climate here that doesn't stress things too badly. Also over half the railway is in shade for large parts of the day. I attached the track screwing through the tie centres every 5' or so for the first 30' section I laid 5 years ago - but this is mostly in shade all day. This part hasn't moved, its embedded in ballast and fines and is still as good as when it went down. After that I learned about dealing with expansion and only attached in the centre of tangents or curve transitions so the rest of my track is free to move. A screw through the centre of the tie is still my preferred method mainly because its easy and hasn't bit me yet. 

A couple of curves 'float' to the surface out of the ballast each year but is a breeze to lift them and cut the roadbed back to grade. ie scrape it till you get the pipe showing and you're there. I haven't bothered for the last couple of seasons. 

I like the way the PVC sets up the curves too, horizontal and vertical transitions are nice and smooth. No super elevation, I see one photo shows it but thats just the first pour with no final prep. I use a small piece of 4 x 2 to flatten the roadbed off as the final step. 

Randy, the crusher dust sets up nice and solid once you work it. We did some tests on it at work (as an HV cable bedding) and it came in at 1.9T/cu m with nominal compaction, a touch over 80% of concrete mass. Nowhere near the strength of course.. I've pondered putting a small amount of cement in the mix to help binding as it does suffer from washout over time where its not supported but I figured I just need to build retaining walls and drainage like the real railroads. Also I like the ability to break it up by hand if I need to change things. Don't forget to post photos! 

Jake, I actualy prefer winter - at least our version of it.. Not so sure about what some of you guys up there deal with. 

Broke open the 'forms' today and started on final prep. Will post once I get the photos sorted. 

Cheers 
Neil


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Neil great looking layout and the use of rocks and evergreens adds a ton to your layout. You can never have to many rocks. Neil where are you located? Keep up the great work and send more pictures.


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Opps i just seen Tuahiwi New Zealand. Buy any chance have you every heard of a person by the name of Peter lynn he is a kite flyier. Once great layout.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks Pete, 

Yes I've certainly heard of Peter Lynn although I haven't met him. There was a local doco on TV a few years ago on what he was up to with his kites. Very impressive. 

Cheers 
Neil


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## armorsmith (Jun 1, 2008)

Neil, Terl, 

After taking some temperature measurements here the Florida, USA I have plans on the following method for track laying on the ladder method of road bed. I will be attaching two sections of track (let's say 60" Aristo for discussion) using Split-Jaw style rigid clamps. The tie strips adjacent to the rigid connection will remain screwed to the rails, all other tie strips will float along the length of the rails. On each end of this no 120" section I will use the standard slip on rail joiners, screwed to each appropriate rail. Installing this 120" section, I will locate the center at the rigid joiners and screw the adjacent tie strips to the roadbed. Now equally space the remaining tie strips and screw those down. This track section is now anchored at the center, and the rails allowed to expand in both directions from the center freely in the rest of the tie strips, but the tie strips will maintain alignment and gauge. 

The next 120" section will be located in a similar manner, gaping the rails at the slip joiner by an amount that will allow both adjacent rails to expand into the gap without buckling the alignment. For conductivity I plan to install jumpers soldered to the rail sections at the slip joints on both rails, including a loop in the wire to allow it to move freely with the expansion and contraction. For a reference, it has been known to drop into the teens on occasion in the winter, and the temperature measurement taken in mid September (after peak heat) with an infra red thermometer on the brass rail was 145 degrees F (I would guess it might make 160 at the peak of summer). 

Doing the math, the total temperature rise from say 15 degrees to 160 degrees is 145 degrees F. Brass expands by .0000104 inches per inch of length per degree of temperature rise. So, .0000104 times 145 times 120 equals 0.18096 inches. That is only one section of track So if I install my track in the dead of winter on the coldest day, I need to leave .18 inches gap at each slip joint. I am thinking since most of the track laying will be done in the spring and fall, where temps are more in the 70-80 degree range, I will most likely need to leave about a .09-.12 gap. 

That is the game plan. Due to the wife being unemployed for over a year, that has been put on hold for the foreseeable short term future, so empirical testing will be a bit in the future. 

Bob C.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Hi Bob, 

I see what you're doing - a couple of observations if you don't mind..? 

There is an inbuilt assumption that the ties will stay fixed and the track will slide in them. This may not always be true (think murphy, or perhaps a ballast chip washes into the expansion gap) and the track may choose to move the ties on occasion. No big deal, but on curves the trend may be to grow the radius with heat rather than a linear rail expansion. If you fix the track in more than one spot in a single curve the radius may become uneven. Just thinking aloud, not saying it will or won't.. 

0.18" is 4.6mm max gap (I gotta do metric for less than an inch, parts of inch aren't my strong point). Seems quite a bit to me although of course this will only be at the coldest time, any idea of the 'normal' gap? 

I joined two 6' sections just like you did for laying but all my rails have solid joints - either splitjaw or soldered with jumper wires like you plan. Good luck and post photos! 

Cheers 
Neil


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Your layout is looking great. Love the landscaping. Everything really blends in nicely. Cant wait to see more.


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob C 

I think that your calculations are sound on the heat expansion amount, unfortuneately in real life more physics comes into play which are hard to predict. Dirt and friction are the culprets which are chaotic. On my layout this is what I have observed. Over time alot of dirt gets into the joiners which cause them to not slide easily. Then the weak link comes into play. When the track shrinks, the weakest joiner slips and then all the contraction appears at that joint, and if the track is floating and the run is long enough shrinkage can be enough to separate the rail. I have tried drilling a hole in the joiner on the underside at the rail gap so that dirt can wash out. Not sure yet if it works well, but it must help some. Maybe some sort of conductive lubricant might help. Have heard that LGB grease works better, but have no personal experience. Maybe mix up some really fine graphite with some alcohol and paint that on the raill befor slipping on the joiners. When the alcohol evaporates it leaves behind the graphite. This is how I lubricate my couplers. I have had torn ties from heat expansion. I have had better results anchoring the track by putting a sheet rock screw right next to the inside of the rail so that forces are transferred to the rail and not the tie. Anchoring the center of a section of track like you want to do seems a promising way to go. Make sure that you physically anchor center of the rail in some way, and not just the plastic ties.Letting the rail slide through the rest of the ties sounds good.

If you can put down a stretch of track using your ideas and see how it works over time. Might be beneficial to know before building a whole layout one way. 

Best of luck. Keep us posted. 

Terl


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've found that the steel rebar wire I was using in places to hold the PVC pipe to the rebar has completely rusted away. The zip tie strips seem to hold fairly well, though. 

Re expansion and contraction, I tried an experiment over the summer on part of my one reverse loop which was notorious for that and working its way up and out of the ballast. I removed all the screws from the track so it basically floated on the roadbed with nothing holding it to the PVC except in one spot for this 20' length of track. That seems to have solved the problems I was having. I like Terl's idea of just loosely tying the tie to the PVC with wire or perhaps a zip tie (so it doesn't rust away), and will try that next spring. 

Later, 

K


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin or anyone else have you ever tried using expantion track? The type that lgb makes.


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Pete I have not used the LGB expansion track. I have used two types of homemade expansion tracks. The first kind I filed the ends of two rails with a vertical surface so that half the rail is left and the ends can slide past each other. It only worked some of the time. The crack would tend to fill with grit which tended to narrow the track gauge and tend to pick flanges. It was also hard to clean out. The second type, the opposing rails ends are in a sheet metal rail-hugging tube which has a slit on the bottom. One rail is screwed to the tube, and the other rail can slide in and out about 1/2 inch. A jumper wire conducts electricity around the tube expansion joint. It is rather an involved process to get the tube a close fit to the rails. With expansion the rail kinks tend to show up at the joint, which didn't slide as much or as easily as I had hoped. With contraction some of the joints actually pulled apart. It is rather hard to predict where the most rail movement is going to occur. Maybe the LGB track section is made better than my homemade ones and would work better. 

Neil I don't intend to be hijacking your post, and very much look forward to your progress. Looks like a nice expansion of your layout. 

Terl


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

I never saw it as hijacking Terl, I learn as much if not more from the way discussions drift around a topic. 

Besides, it's all relevant to a track expansion thread. (couldn't help that one.. heh heh) 

Cheers 
Neil


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

We use expansion sections (Split Jaw?) out at the Colorado RR Museum railroad. They seem to work well, but to be honest I haven't a clue how that track is secured to the ground. It's track powered, so all the track joints are clamped. On my railroad, I don't use expansion sections. I'm using code 250 rail, and I've not seen expansion sections for that size (not that I couldn't build my own). More to the point, though, I find the ballast has a nasty habit of splashing in any sliding joint anyway, so even if something were designed to slide one way or the other, the debris on my railroad would quickly foul it. And I'm too much of an aesthetic purist to change my ballast for something coarser. I think if I do anything "extra" to my ballast next spring, I may experiment with mixing in a bit of polymer sand (used for locking in patio pavers) to see if that keeps things more in level. I built some roads from the stuff a few years ago, and they've held up great. 

Later, 

K


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Ok, back to the scheduled show (for a bit)..

The track bed got flattened off using a bit of 4 x 2 as a rubbing block and checked with a level. I tried judging it by eye at first but was getting it wildly wrong.. This takes the high spots down as well as sorting out the side to side levels



















If I was going to take the conduit out I'd do it after this step. 

I got some rocks in near the bottom to tidy up the inner track.










Train eye view coming down.



















I needed some way to support the sides of the roadbed as it gained height, I thought a rock embankment would do the trick so I broke up a couple with the 10 pounder and stacked the broken bits in.



















Pretty happy with how it came out though the last big one looks wrong - I'll redo that part with broken chunks like the rest. I put a small section of track in to see what it looked like. I’m hoping this spot might be good to railfan when it’s done.



















Track is finally on the way, hope it gets here before xmas holidays start.

Cheers
Neil


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## pete (Jan 2, 2008)

Niel once again what you are doing looks great. I like your use of rocks you can never have too many rocks. Please keep the pictures coming. When you finish a video of your layout would be great. Happy holidays.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking great Neil! Michelle and I would love to be at the open house in mid-Jan! Maybe you could post a video just in case we don't make it


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## mrstrain (Jan 13, 2010)

Wow - gorgeous, elevated layout!


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Sorry for the slow reply guys - work trip.


Pete, I made a vid about a year ago, you can see it here: *http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/4/aft/119203/afv/topic/Default.aspx* 

Whadda ya mean you might not make it Jim - I was counting on you guys being here again! It's only a 15,000 mile round trip after all..







Hope winter is treating you guys well up there. 


I'll work on getting some more video together.



Cheers
Neil


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

That's beautiful, Neil!


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

A post event wrap up..

Track arrived in time to get it in over the Xmas break. The new local track comes in 3 m lengths (10’) which makes laying it quite fast.



















Curves custom bent with the Train Li bender. Wouldn’t be without it..



















I decided to go for broke and make the curved turnout for the bottom junction with a week to go til open house – no pressure!




























Came out alright except I forgot to isolate the frog or wire the stock rails for track power being in too much of a rush. Installed it, tested fine with my battery loco, let’s do a lap with the Shay. Hmmm what’s that red overload light on the power supply.. Dammit, déjà vu all over again.

And some finished shots.



















The open house was part of the New Zealand National GR convention, our local club was the host this year. I was the last railway visit on the Sunday. Of course I got too busy to take any pics but there is a post on G Scale Central of both convention days. Click* here *for the TVL pics JR took. The other layouts are on pg 1 – there’s quite a few pics, may take a while to load..

Thanks for looking.

Cheers
Neil


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow! Looks gorgeous Neil! A top-notch layout! Thanks for the link to the pics! Looks like you had a great turnout.


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

That turnout came out really nice. Glad your open house went well. So What brand track comes in 10 foot lengths? 

Terl


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I really like the ground cover you have cultivated on your layout. Obviously your in a moist environment to get that moss to grow so well. The railroad looks great.


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## wigginsn (Jan 9, 2008)

Thanks guys,

Jim, it was a good turnout. About 40 in total for the convention which is not bad for around these parts. Many visitors from the North Is came down which was nice. We only managed to turn on one 4+ quake during the weekend for them which I think most were grateful for.


I tried to get some video done yesterday but had camera problems, by the time the batteries were recharged the light had gone. Will try again tonight once our daughter is in bed. 


Terl, the track is made locally, ie extruded from bar using dies owned by two gentlemen in Auckland - who then distribute to clubs around the country. They had been sourcing track from South Africa for the last few years but decided to make the jump back into producing their own a short while back. Cost to me is a bit less than $10 per foot to my door which is very competitive compared to shipping track from the US. 

A a bonus the ties are made to the correct scale of 1:24 to represent our national guage of 3'6.









Jake, We are not particularly moist esp in summer, in general the lawn is brown before Xmas. This year its not been a great summer which helps explain the greenness. The majority ground cover is white thyme, with some small grass type growths that I've not been able to identify. Both are hardy and survive dry periods well which is good as I refuse to water every day..


Cheers
Neil


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## jake3404 (Dec 3, 2010)

I'll have to get those names from ya Neil. It seems you and I are of the same opinion when it comes to watering. I'm trying to cultivate stuff that is drought hardy because I dont always water every day.


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