# BIGBOY LOCOMOTIVE



## Guest (Jun 25, 2008)

Welp some things have changed here in the last couple of days and i have freed up a little cash so i may be in the market for a bigboy loco.. why i want a up engine is beond me but maybe cause they were built less than 50 miles down the road could be a valid reason other than the thing is huge... so who has a accucraft or a usa bigboy, and how do they look and most importantly how do they run... dont be affraid to chime in i promise i wont bite your heads OFF...../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif 
Nick...


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Nick 
I have the USA loco. The sound is great and it is a great running loco. 
The one problem that I found is that it has it be babyed through a #6 switch it will go through it but it fights you the whole way. 
Also on the USA the top of the boiler come of with 4 screw and you DON'T have to flip it over. 
It is also an easy locolink/airwire conversion 
MAtt


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick -- 

You didn't say how much money you have, but I know a guy who has one of these for sale: 

http://www.fineartmodels.com/pages/product.asp?content_area=3&sub_area=10&product_area=35 

Or at least he did the last time I talked to him, a month or so ago. The detail is beyond amazing. Every access door works, the spoked hand wheels really have spokes, and on and on and on...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Click on the "2 as modified" tab to see the images of this thing. The major clue that it is a model is that it is too clean!


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2008)

Matt, 
very interested why it wont go thrue # 6 switch? is it the loco or the swicth? USA or aristocrap switch... thanks 
Nick..


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I believe Marty has one and his is a more of a shelf queen due to that it won't stay on the the track even with concrete roadbed. 

-Brian


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2008)

Brian, 
did he say why it would not stay on track... 
thanks 
Nick


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Nick 
They are the USA switches. 
It goes through them you just have to take it slow. 
Its the same thing that Brian is talking about it doesnt like staying on the track. 
Matt


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Nick 
Here is a quote from Marty from the Worlds Longest train Post 
Maybe he could chime in with more hints and info 
"to be honest, I have to baby the BB all the time. Its NOT made to go backwards and the smoker doesn't work now. My AC #6 are ok going slow to med speeds. I talked to Jens last night he ajusted the springs to push down harder on the tender lead truck and pilot truck. 
Its a great loco but no fun to run. 
Any little stick on the rail ,it will walk up on the rail instead of crushing it like I thought it would. its a 45 pd "baby" 
Matt


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2008)

Thank Matt and Brian, 
i found this clip of Cozads bigboy seems to be running ok but no clips of going thrue switchs, i think Ray M had a problem with the switchs as well... must be something stupid causeing it, you think.. 
Nick..


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Nick 
I was talking to Rick Cartwright in pheonix and he thinks that it is something to do with the front truck. 
He is modifying mine and 2 others I will keep you posted on what I find out. 
Matt


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

NIck 
I just got off the phone with Rick and he said that the back axel on the front truck is being forced up off the track for some reason and he thinks that is were the problem is but hasn't come up with a fix 
Matt


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2008)

Thanks Matt, look forward to hearing from you about this, in the mean time maybe i can talk ray into barrowing his for a couple of weeks to try out/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif see how it works, besides the fact i can break it in for you Ray.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 
Nick...


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Nick 
Sounds like a great idea/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif 
All those pictures you see of his 60plus car coal train are always being pulled by MTH. 
Keep us posted if he lets you use it/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif 
Matt


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

How did I miss this thread. 
My ears were burning. 

I love the BB cause its got balls. But IT rules the rail. Thus I am planning changes to meet the need just like any growing class 1 RR. 
Its NOT a girly-man engine. 
It will hurt your fingures rerailing it.


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Marty 
Are the changes to the RR or the loco? 
Matt


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

To the RR


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Haha Hey Nick, sorry I missed your post I'm spending less and less time on MLS any more... 

First, no you can't borrow mine. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue2.gif The 500ft it's been before getting put in the display case is all the breaking in it needs. LOL 

Second, to answer your question directly, I think the bottom line is because the engine is so heavy and because it is build so prototypically, it will be less forgiving with layout imperfections. All axles are independently sprung, but because of the weight the springs are strong so they don't give easily. The engine runs smoother than any other largescale engine I own and it weighs 5 times as much. The quartering is absolutely perfect, no driveline binding whatsoever. The detail is just incredible, you will spend hours just looking at it and you will feel like you are looking at a true mini-replica of the real thing. The size is just hard to imagine in 1:29, I mean it's HUGE! I put mine in the display case not because of running problems, but because it's just so beautiful I wanted to keep it in pristine condition. I mean this is the Ultimate model of the ultimate engine, and I want it to stay in perfect condition. 

Note that the whistle sound is from the SP Daylight 4449.(GS-4 Northern class engine) Ultimately it's what sounds good to your ear for the engine. 

Oh and I saw the St. A version of the BB and I would make very sure you saw detail pictures of it before you ordered it. Email me off line if you want more info. I wish I had photos so you could see it up close. 

Good luck with your decision, I don't think you would regret ordering a USA BB.  

Raymond


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks guys for the advice, me thinks upstate NY could see the return of the BIGBOY soon/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 
Nick...


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Nick, I'm getting ready to order a USA Big Boy as well! 
Odd part is that USA only shows 3 out of 4 cab numbers in stock..not bad for a big articulated locomotive that will never sell...or should I say that USAT would never build according to some large scale manufacturers & dealers..hahahehehaha.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2008)

Hey Chuck, 
I agree totally with ya, must not listen to some of the mis lead people over on the other forum, they just like buying defective locos out of the box so the can spend all that money in shipping to send them back for repair.. most anyway, i honestly swear if there leader told them to walk off a bridge some of those guys would...but any way you just scares the **** out of me cuss i just got off the phone with jim from g scale and ordered a few more peices including a BIGBOY # 4000 
I didnt check to see if it was in stock but i did now and it was/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gifi also odered a bunch more intermodels and containers, that puts me at a 100 intermodel SWEET... also got 3 of those UP sd 70's with the heritage paint, nice looking in the pictures so we will see when they arrive... by the way,Jim tryed to sell me a MALLET can you imagine that, me buying any more aristo products NOTTTTTTT..... be a cold day in **** when that happens again...... USA engines rule.. SO SAYITH ME... by the way if anyone looking for a good deal on mallets 425.00 out the door at g scale junction.... Jim be your man.. 
Nick.


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## Guest (Jun 28, 2008)

Oh by the way, i very saddend that Ray would not let me break in his bigboy for him/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gifit deserves more than 500ft of run time, somebody have Ray address i'l have to take a run over there and convince him that running his with mine will break it in easyer HE HE HE/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif 
Nick...


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, WOW a 100 intermodals?? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 

Now if we use 3 USAT Big Boys & DCS them with enough cars it would beat that guy out west trying to pull the worlds longest train..all with one MTH remote.. 
But who's got 2,000' of track?


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Man that IS a serious bunch of intermodals! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif" border=0> LOL 

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I heard they were having trouble coordinating all the operators. I think they were using some battery powered based control? This would be the perfect use for DCS and it's optically monitored speed control. Chuck, since you experimented with DCC (and trashed it for DCS), how would you compare the DCC speed control to DCS? Is the DCC (back EMF?) as precise and offer the same 120 speed stop level of control as DCS? Does it react as quickly to changes? It would seem an optical monitor would be quicker than trying to detect back EMF. You are the only one here who has had the practical experience with both and would be the best to answer the question. 

Oh and I think I have 1500ft of SS stored for future use. I'm sure Nick has enough to put it over the 2000ft length. ArticulatedAl I think may actually have available real estate to build a layout of that size and has a USA BB of his own.  That's four that would be under DCS right there. 

Raymond


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Every now and then an Aster Big Boy comes around for sale. They did also offer it in electric and they sell for less then the steam version, and look just as beautifull.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

OK LETS BREAK THE RECORD EAST COAST STYE.. BOOZE WOMEN/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif AND TRAINS/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif GOTTA LOVE THEM BIGBOYS... or any USA locos for that matter.Steve are the aster bigboys 1/29th or 1/32th scale???? 
Nick...


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## Robert Fasnacht (Jan 2, 2008)

I am very puzzled why you are having problems going through a #6 switch presumably USAT or Aristo. I was one of the first to get the USAT Big Boy and did not hesitate to get it running at a number of train shows annually attended by the G-scale club I belong to (www.ecgrc.com). Since I do not yet have an outdoor garden railway to call my own, these shows have afforded a perfect opportunity to put many hours on the locomotive through #6 switches (20-foot diameter curves only). I've never experienced any difficulties (USAT or Aristo) from switch design or manufacture and have often highballed through them or backed up a consist onto a siding. There was one instance when the Bib Boy began to derail as it entered a #6 switch after about ten days of daily running at the Pensacola Interstate Fair. I had violated a cardinal rule by failing to have a straight piece of track between a 20'D quarter circle and the beginning of the switch. The locomotive was not centering on the rails as it left the curved (there is extreme overhang even with 20'D) and the front drivers pounded the frog into an interesting shape and left metal sticking out that closed up the wheel flangeways enough to cause the lead trucks to jump the tracks--the locomotive merrily followed along. Anyway, thereafter, four feet of straight track is included in into any track plan that is intended to accommodate BiG Boy operations and that problem has never arisen again. 

Bob


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

Thanks for i the input Robert,makes me feel a little better. i have 16.5 ft dia curves for shows do you think the bigboy will go thrue ok? i bought these curves for shows cause i never thought i would own anything bigger than the hudson... what a dumb ass i am AAAAAA I ALSO ORDERED a 48 inch turntable a couple of weeks ago not ever thinking i would have a bigboy ,its built already so no way to increase the size for the bigboy!!!ooo well guess i will have to build a mallet house to store it next to the round house... 
Nick


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Raymond, I don't think that the DCC system (Digitrax) had a all button like DCS has. If I remeber right it was only capable of running 2 seperate loco's at a time unless they were in a consist/lashup whereas you know how we can operate all loco's on the active list with the all button. I don't think it would be a good idea to treat the loco's as if they were in a lashup with 200 cars seperating them. Man the cost involved with setting up 2000' of track into seperate power districts with 10 amp blocks would be outrageous compared to one or two DCS TIU's. 

Hmm back emf wouldn't cut it on a big heavy train. I'd think it would want to be turned off because the mid-train loco's would start surging. To me the DCS optical reader is far superior to back emf, just for comparison a record turntable still uses a optical reader and not back emf. 
What would be really sweet is when MTH gets the SMPH calibration program out to us..


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

Welp, i think someones going to be STEAMED over this!!!! GET IT... STEAMED, OOOOO I CRACK MYSELF UP.... 
Nick


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## Robert Fasnacht (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, I have absolutely no idea what the Big Boy will do trying to negotiate a 16.5'D curve. Never tried. Guess the only way to find out is throw the track down on a flat surface and find out. I would not be surprised you discover it won't work. Even on 20'D curves, the Big Boy overhangs the outer rail by almost three inches. You're hardly a dumb ass... I was fortunate to have the backyard space to always consider 20'D as a minimum for the garden railway that is yet to be constructed. I've known many G-scalers in my club who looked at me askance thinking there never would be locomotives big enough to warrant such extravagance. Well... In fact, I've pestered Lewis Polk for years to finally offer 24'D tracks but he's not interested since none of his locomotives need such wide curves. Yeah, I know, bend your own. Nah... Let me know how the 16.5'D experiment turns out--I am interested. Bob


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Ran the USAT BB yesterday and all went well, onboard batt. 
. 
I don't think the over hang looks 3" on a 20'dia but I am thinking of changing the lower main 1 to 20' radious curves just because of longer heavier trains.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't think it looked like a 3" either but I could be wrong. Here is the only thing close I have to a picture on a 20ft curve. It's not all the way in the curve but I don't know that it would swing out any further... 










All I remember for sure was I thought the engine looked ok/good on the 20ft curves. 


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

If Aristo had sold 24' curves that's what I would have gone with. 

Raymond


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

Sweet Ray just sweet but hay for 3500.00 why is that number board bent down like that? that would just piss me off.. 
Nick


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hehe, noticed that eh? I'm sure it can be corrected I just never looked into it. It's probably screwed in place, just not sure how to get to it. 

Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

hehehe..ordered mine from Jim @ G Scale Junction too..


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

Right on Chuck glad Jim did ya right he's a good egg...cant wait to see it... Ray i have a BIG hammer that will fix that number board right up!!!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif 
Nick..


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2008)

Well after waiting all day for fedex!!! my USA order arrived cant wait till tommarrow to open up all the goodies i wonder were the rest of the order is? o well enough to keep me busy over the long.... weekend, happy 4th of july everyone, i know mine will be.. 
Nick../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Are you sure getting largescale deliveries that large isn't illegal?  LOL 

I see a big boy and tender box there! PICTURES MAN PICTURES. Oh and getting this thing out of the box if you can at all, have someone help you. When unbolting the engine from the wooden platform, try and have something supporting and padding the engine on the side then lift (not rock on the platform) and then turn it on it's side. That is how my platform split down the middle was I had it rocked on it's side. Scared the bejesus out of me when it let go. You wont be dissapointed in this purchase...  

Raymond


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## Robert Fasnacht (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah Nick, Santa Claus came early. You are gonna' want to run that Big Boy immediately. I can imagine the thrill. Let me know how those 16.5'D curves work out. Bob


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2008)

Ray, 
pictures and video to come, that other big box has a all black hudson in it whitch is going to be shipped to NYC to an artist who is going to make a dryfuss out of it cant wait for that to come back. 
by the way a dryfuss is a streamline art decoie style hudson for those of you that don't know 

Bob. 
ya me and SANTA are tight/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gifi think i dated his daughter a couple of times with good results/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif so SANTAS TAKEN A SHINE TO ME ha ha ha i will try the 16.5 but i think i will get out some of the 8ft flex rail and try to bend up some 25ft dia curves with the new train li to see how it works... more later.. im so excited i could pee myself!!!!!! just kidding/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif 
Nick..


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2008)

Oh by the way Ray, im in the dog house big time!!!!!! ididnt get the stuff hid in time before my girlfreind came home TALK ABOUT A BIG MISUNDERSTANDING GOING ON IN MY HOUSE TONIGHT...no problems that a bottle of GRAYGOOSE vodka and a trip vacation cant solve... he he he../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow Nick that's alot of trains! you sure got that order fast! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, not bad as of 3:00pm CST this topic about the World's Largest Die-Cast 1/29 steam locomotive has over 1,200 hits. Some said it couldn't be built, was to heavy to be built, is to expensive, who would ever buy such a monster AND what the average large scaler wants is a USRA type 0-8-0 that's go around r1 curves..hehehehe/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

Welp Chuck, 
i agree, im glad they built it, it does sell even better that another 1/29 manufactures articulated loco, it is heavy i got the tender out but i couldnt get the loco out of the card board box by my self, almost dropped a nut, so im waiting on my brother to arrive to help cause i didnt want to cut card board box up so i'l wait, but judging bt the tender this is another hit for USA as usual... no surprise there... outstanding job by the boys in Mass. Jim at g Scale junction is outstanding as far as price and ship time...he says he cant wait for your check as this will be # 6 sold since this thread has started so you see i beleive all good thing come to those who want quality.. not just cheap and get it to market quick without fully working the bugs out, other guy on east coast. bet you can guess who they are.. 
Nicky... 
ps its not always about how much something cost but how well they work when you put it on the track and thus far, USA all the way, quality 1st to market 2nd...maybe another east coast manufacture can take a hint..


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow lots of boxes and i"ll be waiting to see the big boy. Lets see how well it stays on the track. Later RJD


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

whats a good time to call ya RJ.....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Any time before 10pm. Later RJD


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## chris lepore (Apr 12, 2008)

Nick, 
Can you give more details on the Hudson conversion to the Dryfuss style. I sure wish USA would come out with one of them. 

Chris


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

WOW..Jim sold 6 in less than 12 days.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

Chuck, 
i was finally able to get some time to get the bigboy out and all i can say is WOW...... most impressive loco i own now, it right on par with the hudson if not better. well worth the $ Jim got your check you should have yours in a couple of days hope you have help getting it out it IS A heavy beast... pictures and video to follow as soon as i can get them up loaded!!!seem to be having a problem veiwing and uploading to youtube? always something!!!/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif 
Nick...


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## Guest (Jul 7, 2008)

Chris, 
a freind of my girlfreind is going to convert it to a dryfuss using all metal.he's a old time metal worker that started in the late 40's and now has turned to working with metal as art and does fully scale models for different companys, boats, planes, trains houses, buildings you name it he does it,he be bugging me for a year to get him one so he can do the conversion, he was able to sacure a copy of the scale dryfuss drawings from some were and has a full set of scale up to 1/29 drawing now to use to build the skin so we will see how well it comes out!!should be interesting, the guy is one of the best metal workers ive ever seen. he's old school.... he did an all steel roster bodie for my hot rod a few years back and all i can say is he's outstanding. 
Nick


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2008)

Couple of photos of bigboy, outstanding piece of art works and run equally as well, but i wouldnt run it on less than 20ft dia curves looks funny going thrue 16.5 dia.. will post small video soon, over all very please with this purchase  
Nick..


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Got my U.P. 4000 yesterday../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 











And would you believe it's shown here going around a 14.5' diameter curve?? I don't think it would handle any smaller curves though! But that's fine as 14.5' curves is what goes thru the house../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif 










Yep USA has done a truely magnificent piece of engineering artwork with the Union Pacific Big Boy!! 

Think maybe I'll order another one by Christmas../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Fantastic guys! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif They really are incredible models. 

Nick, you're killing me over here, I don't even have ONE USA Hudson! Were you able to get any video going on the USA BB? 

That is really interesting to hear it will take a 14.5' curve. WOW. Chuck, you ever get a second one, since you're so close, you would have to bring them in for some runs on my layout and do a doubleheader pusher setup with USA BBs under DCS. Now if we could get Nick and ArticulatedAl over that would make 5.  


Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

hmm..5 of them now that would be a sight! 

Kinda like a mini Cheyenne, Wyo. gathering of the Big Boy's../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 

WOW!! Customer service at Charles Ro Supply say's they only have about 40 Big Boy's left in stock so if anybody wants one ya better order quick...they don't know if they'll make another run of these fine articulated steamers that'll never sell.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL That is really great to hear. No doubt Largescale is evolving and moving forward just as all the other scales have done.  Just wish we had a 1:29 scale entrant who would make these bigger / iconic engines in plastic. If I ever win the lotto I'll get some cranked out.  


Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Hows'bout some underboiler shots of the electronics seeing as this topic has over 2000 hits??


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Good photos, I was surprised how long it took just to figure out how to get it out of the cases and on the track. I had to clean out my smokers because I over filled them not realizing they was not all used up.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 
How about a video of the BB running on your layout? Jerry


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2008)

Chuck, 
Glad to see you got your BIGBOY, sweet isn't it!!!! i cant beleive you got the boiler off already.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif are you going to DCS it or leave it stock? it does apear to have a fly wheel so conversion shouldn't be to bad..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif 
Ray, i took a couple of videos inside to see over hang on 16.5 for show running but i think i will need to increase to 20 ft dia at shows to make it look good/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue2.gifnow all i have to do is get a kadees on it and 75 40ft box cars so i can run them behind it/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif 
Nick...


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2008)

P.S. Ray 
you really need to get one of these USA Hudsons, they really are truly a fantastic looking, running and pulling locomotive 
Nick..


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

go to youtube and look at my NTCGRR videos. 
running trains on carpet, my wife would kill me. and ours is dark.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick I agree that Raymond should get a USA Hudson..they're the bestGood to see yours zipping thru the house. 

The boiler comes off in about 1 minute by removing 4 screws..Charles Ro is the best!!  


It'll be DCS'd for sure...the crappy phoenix sound and those lame USA smokers gotta go..they ain't worthy of a Big Boy!! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow! It boggles the mind on how much wire there is in that loco! 

Do you get a circuit diagram with it? 

Regards, Greg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By nick s. on 07/20/2008 9:46 AM
Chuck, 
Glad to see you got your BIGBOY, sweet isn't it!!!!" border=0> i cant beleive you got the boiler off already.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif" border=0> are you going to DCS it or leave it stock? it does apear to have a fly wheel so conversion shouldn't be to bad..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif" border=0>/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif" border=0>/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wow.gif" border=0> 
Ray, i took a couple of videos inside to see over hang on 16.5 for show running but i think i will need to increase to 20 ft dia at shows to make it look good/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue2.gif" border=0>now all i have to do is get a kadees on it and 75 40ft box cars so i can run them behind it/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif" border=0> 
Nick... 






 

Thanks for posting the video Nick.  Awesome to even see it move. 

Ok Ok, stop it, you're doing closeups of the Hudson just to drive me nuts I know it. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue2.gif Man, that Hudson is such a beauty! 

Well after seeing the small 2" speakers I see now why the sound lacks bass. Just wait, we will soon have that problem rectified!  


Raymond


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2008)

UUUUUUUUU OOOOOOOOOOO The teredown begins/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif 1st Chuck, then i can tell in the post that your next to rip it apart.... CANT YOU GUYS LEAVE ANYTHING STOCK .../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif HE HE HE 
OK OK I'l be 3rd... but its going to cost as much to ship it to you as it did to buy it!!!!! ha ha ha /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue2.gif 
Nick


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Not when better things await it.  /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 

Chuck, did you notice those wires look awful close to that flywheel? That looks like a potential short risk at some poin in the future. 


Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, A half-assed wiring schematic is included but it doesn't show the wire colors and it looks like part of it was hand drawn... 

I'll try to post a link to a pdf. file on the Phoenix Sound site... 
http://www.phoenixsound.com/pdf/USABigBoy.pdf


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's some pic's of the boiler removal screws... 




























After seeing that last pic I wouldn't try picking the loco by the roof of the cab../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Raymond, Yes those wires are close to the flywheels.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif 

Luckily I have a man looking into it!! /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif 










Here's both motors... 










And a coal hook to keep the fire in good shape.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

You gotta be kidding me, you mean it's that easy to get the boiler off??? 4 screws? WOW! Thanks for sharing! 

Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif 

And check out the back to back motors + flywheels.. This is a DCSer's dream come true.  


Raymond


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## Guest (Jul 22, 2008)

Yup, i'm thinkin theres going to be aleast 3 DCSed USA bigboys out there before Xmas /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/hehe.gif HE /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif 
HE HE 
Nick...


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Man I really like this Big Boy... 

The only discrepency that I see between the real 1:1 Big Boy and the USA Trains 1:29 Big Boy model is the cab. The real Big Boy's had all-weather cabs to keep the crew warm during the long Wyoming/Utah winters. The doors were on the back of the cab, the USA version has cab curtains.../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif 




















The only reason that I can think of for Charles Ro to make a blunder like this is that the Lionel O Gauge Die-Cast Big Boy in 1:48 scale is the same...that being it has cab curtains. Charles Ro Supply is probably the worlds largest Lionel Dealer...just maybe he is in kahootz with Lionel when it comes to making any of the 1:29 die-cast locomotives?? /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Thought Lionel gave up on large scale?


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Jerry, I think Chuck is guessing USAT may have cut a deal with Lionel to pay them for the plans or something and just scaled up the plans for their model up to 1:29?


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks Dan, it wasnt meant as a bad comment,im getting older myself,i can understand the size matters things all to well.especially when im out on friday nights have a few







.... by the way this is the 100th post on this thread...







for everyone he he he...
Nick.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 10/25/2008 9:47 AM
Dan, obviously the entire forum is in smaller characters, so I can understand your increasing the font so you can proofread your post as you create it. 

But, why not just increase the size of ALL text in your browser, and use the same size as everyone else? The browser you are using most likely has this capability. 

If you did this, then ALL the text in the posts would be larger and easier to read (and we would not get sunburn from your font size ha ha!). 

I'd be happy to assist you if you need it. 

Regards, Greg


Greg,
If you mean the text size adjustment in the "VIEW" pull down toolbar, I have it at it's largest. However, the text in these forums is still quite small.

This size is comfortable for me to read.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Gotcha! Your eyesight must be pretty limited, sorry. 

There are other things you can do, like increase the fonts for ALL of windows, not just the browser. 

Anyway, we can live with it, I'm sure it's much less of a pain for us than it is for you. 

Regards, Greg


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## Robert Fasnacht (Jan 2, 2008)

*My UP4014 has just finished a rugged 50 hours or running at the 10-day Interstate Fair at Pensacola, FL. As always the locomotive performed flawlessly running on 20-foot diameter curves and #6 switches. I am beginning to rack up an impressive number of hours on this locomotive and it continues to perform flawlessly to the immense satisfaction of club members (www.ecgrc.com) and the public at large. There is no substitute for Charlie Ro's version. Time now for some preventive maintenance and the Big Boy will be ready to roll at the next show. What fun!*

*On a related matter within this thread, yes, Lionel is out of the G-scale business but NOT entirely. Lionel continues to make a Christmas box car each year in G-scale. Got mine about a month ago. Same mold that has always been used by Lionel to create their box cars. The artwork on this year's Christmas version is simply marvelous.*

*Bob*


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Be nice if Lionel got back into G scale more, with the dedication to scale that they have shown in O on some things.


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## Robert Fasnacht (Jan 2, 2008)

*Now that we have again strayed off the reservation or thread topic, I might as well be guilty also. Sorry Nick.

Yes, Jerry, it would be nice. I have virtually everything ever made by Lionel in G-scale because it is hardy equipment that takes handling without damage. I participate in a goodly number of G-scale shows during the year as a member of the Emerald Coast Garden Railway Club (www.ecgrc.com) and everything must be packed and transported in some manner. The slightly smaller size of Lionel rolling stock makes packing consists much easier since you don't need super long trunks to accommodate typical Aristo or USAT car lengths. Also, the design of Lionel's rolling stock is not so finite that you risk breaking off pieces and parts either throught layout operations or frequent handling. Attention to detail is sufficient to keep it from looking too toylike and their artwork has usually been quite good. It would seem Lionel could recreate a niche in the G-scale market now that LGB is a thing of the past but that is probably not likely.* 
Bob


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, That's great news about your Big Boy doing 50 hours without breaking a sweat...


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, here's a pic of a Lionel U.P. boxcar and a AML Frisco boxcar. The Lionel car is of a later vintage..I'd say around the early '90's and it does have less detail and is a little shorter than the AML car but it would look just fine in about any consist I think...









With Lionel cars I usually lower them a bit by using USAT trucks and then installing metal wheels. I think I paid around $20.00for this one on Ebay..


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Look about like the MDC cars that I like.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2008)

USA Bigboy running well at last weekends show...








Nick


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick - How is the smoke generator on the USA Big Boy? I love the engine, but the version I saw at ECLSTS a few years back had pretty anemic smoke output. I live pretty close to Charles Ro, but they never turn the smoke unit own when they demonstrate the engine. Thanks!


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2008)

Posted By jlinde on 11/17/2008 11:26 AM
Nick - How is the smoke generator on the USA Big Boy? I love the engine, but the version I saw at ECLSTS a few years back had pretty anemic smoke output. I live pretty close to Charles Ro, but they never turn the smoke unit own when they demonstrate the engine. Thanks!






To tell you the truth i didnt even think of trying it at the show with everything going on and all, this was the 1st time it hit the track for any kind of pulling and running. we have another big 2 day show coming soon, i will try it then and do a video for you..
by the way could you post at least your 1st name so i know who im talking too.








thanks Nick..


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Great videos nick!!!!! I love watching BigBoy in action, and can't wait to get mine =D Does anyone know for sure how much overhang BigBoy has on 20' diameter? 22' diameter? 30'? Any info on that would be most helpful. Thanks!
-Will


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Will,

Check out my website, click on the locomotives link and click on the USA BB pic. It has some photos of it either partially or most of the way on a 20' diam curve. I recall this is about what it looked like fully in the curve. You are going to be in awe over this thing once you see it in person. 


Raymond


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

You may be in awe cause of the sticker shock.







Later RJD


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi, Nick - It's been a few days, but I wanted to apologize for not posting my full/first name. It's Jonathan or Jon Linde. Regards, Jon


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I just can't get enough of these big locomotives...


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Post deleted


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Post deleted


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 12/23/2008 1:34 AM
I just can't get enough of these big locomotives...







































NICE!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 12/23/2008 5:27 AM
'They gave me a medal for killing 3 men, they gave me a discharge for loving one" -A gay soldier's tombstone.'

?

tac
www.ovgrs.org



**Its don't ask , don't tell.***


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Well it was supposed to say 2 men, I guess I hit 3 by mistake. I have updated my profile so that people who have been curious about this can now easily google it. If not, call me out in the public forum and I'll be happy to explain it. Some folks don't want to read about this in the UP 4-8-8-4 forum. I learned that asking a track question in the beginner's forum. Some people thought it should be asked in the track forum, though it was a beginner question. Everyone has different ideas. That is what keeps the Yin and Yang in balance. 

-Will


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

From a page called the "gay 80's in review" 

Matlovich wins...A U.S. district court judge orders the Army to 
reinstate Sergeant Leonard Matlovich, but instead, he accepts 
$160,000 from the Army to stay out. Gay activists criticize him 
for selling out. 

Hmm.... 


Regards, Greg


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Post deleted


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Greg, Matlovich already knew that he would be treated like a traitor for challenging a discharge, that's why he had no interest in going back. Being a black sheep with no support is the hardest 9-5 a guy can have. Granted, most people thought he should have reinstated just to be a thorn in the military's side, but the reality is that everyone would have worked against him and made his life ****. I can't say whether he made the right decision to keep the military's 'generous offer' and "STAY OUT" or not, but he was only human. The idea in my signature is a story about the struggle for civil rights that is still going on today. I do think it is very sad though that people won't treat others like human beings without laws in place to force it. Without the laws, people are at the mercy of people whose deepest hatreds have no mercy. History shows this.

Now tac, pay close attention because this is the last time I am writing about this in the BIG BOY forum.... I have a signature, like most people on here. There are no guidelines as to what it is supposed to be about. I do not have my layout complete, nor do I have a name for it. To fill in the gap I thought I would put in something positive and this came to mind. I am not the only person with a signature that does not pertain to trains but you found it necessary to let me know how you feel about it. I respect you for standing up for your beliefs. However, people are reading this forum because they love the BIG BOY as most of us do. They do not want to waste their time with drama about you thinking I am trying to start a "Gay rights to run model trains issue" and me arguing back with you. I have had many compliments on my signature and I really appreciate the support. But naturally, there are always those who disagree. 
We can't all have the same ideas or humanity couldn't learn the hardest lesson in life which is to put aside our differences and get along. Now, having said that, my idea is for you to seal this up in the Big Boy forum and carry it over to the public forum. This way we can debate this issue on a thread where people can choose to read it or not to read it. Know in advance that I am not going to fight about it. I will be calm, collected, rational, and civil no matter how angry the responces I get. That's my way. I am only human, and those who disagree with me are only human. And because of civil rights we both have the right to disagree with what the other one says. I am happy to stand up for what I believe and I think it is good that others feel the same way. Again, I won't address this issue again in this forum, please let's take it where it belongs.


Thanks a bunch,
-Will


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Rayman4449 is back!!! woohoo!!! Ray, I bet you didn't even notice that I borrowed your BIG BOY and put it back safe and sound under that brilliant case huh? ;-) I'm actually curious and nervous about how long I will have to get the Big Boy. USA stopped making the GP7/9 in certain road names, and though they added a few it makes me wonder about the availability of such an expensive locomotive. I'd better try my best to get it asap, but CSX has cut out all the overtime I was getting, I might need a second job to pay for it lol.

-Will


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Haha I'm back. Was on vacation for two weeks and spent most of the time working on DCS conversions barely taking time to stop and eat... Boy time flies doesn't it? 

Ah ha, I thought I saw a fingerprint on the cab, so that's where it came from!  

I know what you mean. That was one reason why I went ahead and just preordered it before it came out, didn't want to miss my chance. I hope you can get one cause they are an amazing piece of work. Seems like I heard this first production run was limited to 250 units. When you consider a worldwide market that's not very many. Hopefully they will do another run at some point when they sell out.

Hope you don't get laid off for any period of time with the economic slowdown. Just a matter of time before things turn around tho. 


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By n/a on 11/17/2008 7:22 AM
USA Bigboy running well at last weekends show...








Nick






Sorry by the way Nick for not responding before but great videos! Just wish I had more to share myself. I bet the kids really loved it.


Raymond


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

Will is correct - mylargescale doesn't provide guidance on or standards for signature content. And any number of mylargescale members have signatures that express views on topics utterly unrelated to model railroading (mine included). If I'm correct, several relate to the member's religious beliefs/affiliation. So, I see nothing wrong with Will's signature - for crying out loud, the goal of the hobby is to be inclusive of anyone with an interest, straight, gay, religious, agnostic, whatever. I'm happy that Will is participating in our online community of train enthusiasts.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Will for sharing, 
my youngest son's name is Wil,,one L.
Thats becuase I can't spell past 3 letters.

I work for a couple of guys who never bring up the subject and I have known them for years.
then theres the "guys" who have to make a big deal about it and talk strange and dance around to get attenten.

Ben , my oldest in the army says he knows of two guys. he said one you would never know it and he keeps it private and no one bothers him.(respect) both ways
then he says the other guy brings it on himself and just stands out . No one respects him and he imbarraces the other cool guy.

I have thought about adding to my sig.
" I have only ONE wife and will keep it that way"

I bet folks would respond to that.

or" I don't drink and I hate drunks"

any way you get my point.

BTY, my sons say I'm not prejiduce because my two closet friends are BLACK and Brown. And they like them white women...


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 12/29/2008 12:13 PM
Posted By n/a on 11/17/2008 7:22 AM
USA Bigboy running well at last weekends show...








Nick






Sorry by the way Nick for not responding before but great videos! Just wish I had more to share myself. I bet the kids really loved it.


Raymond

Thanks Ray, these things ran flawless and pulled a ton with no issues. it was a great day for all at the show my self included..
Nick


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 12/06/2008 1:09 PM
You may be in awe cause of the sticker shock.







Later RJD


RJ, please...i only had to give up one of my N-ts to get it GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ... i still have one that works....HE HE HE








Nick...


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By jlinde on 12/06/2008 1:38 PM
Hi, Nick - It's been a few days, but I wanted to apologize for not posting my full/first name. It's Jonathan or Jon Linde. Regards, Jon 


Thanks Jon...
Nick.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 12/23/2008 1:34 AM
I just can't get enough of these big locomotives...





































Chuck, those are some sweet pictures, my brother from another mother.....







bigboys rule.
Nick...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 12/23/2008 1:34 AM
I just can't get enough of these big locomotives...


























What is wrong in front of the 3967? The workmen appear to be quite perplexed by it, whatever it is.


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

WOOHOO!!! I just reserved my Big Boy #4000 from Charles Ro and told him to release Conrail SD80MAC!







He probably thinks I'm kidding.







Anyways, there's a reason Big Boy is the thread with the most posts, replies, and views... Because it is one sexy engine! Keep those pics coming Nick.


p.s. - Has anyone called Guiness about Big Boy yet? *Ahnold voice* IT ISS HYOOOJ!!!


-Will


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Awesome Will! 

Let us know when you get it. 

You're going to love this engine.


Raymond


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

*Some people are missing the point about signatures after their post. It has nothing to do with gay rights, womens rights, animal rights, overall Human rights,......... etc., etc. Example: In the U.S we just went through an election. You could have seen signatures such as McCain/08 or Obama/08 after post's. I for one do not like any signatures. No matter how you slice it, it gets away from the forum at hand. It can upset some, anger some, hurt feelings, etc. There are hundreds of forums all over the internet where political, social, and other controversial things can be discussed. * 
*And, usually.................people know when they leave a signature that will strike a nerve, and that is why they do it in the first place.*


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve
My sig is made to strick a nerve, train nerve.....


Will 
RLD has one more BB at a great price let on his clearance list. cheaper that what I paid for miine.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve S. on 12/31/2008 11:07 AM
*Some people are missing the point about signatures after their post. It has nothing to do with gay rights, womens rights, animal rights, overall Human rights,......... etc., etc. Example: In the U.S we just went through an election. You could have seen signatures such as McCain/08 or Obama/08 after post's. I for one do not like any signatures. No matter how you slice it, it gets away from the forum at hand. It can upset some, anger some, hurt feelings, etc. There are hundreds of forums all over the internet where political, social, and other controversial things can be discussed. * 
*And, usually.................people know when they leave a signature that will strike a nerve, and that is why they do it in the first place.*




Well leave it to me to be the dumbass on here, but I tried to find out how to modify one of those signatures and I can't even find the one I have. I put it together before the site change and now I have no idea how to find it or change it. Oh well, maybe some of you smart guys can figure it out.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm guessing you would need to call Will as there isn't one on the list:

http://www.rldhobbies.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=137

RLD's USA BBs are priced at $3844.84 which is $344 more than I paid for mine

http://www.rldhobbies.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=84


And is $644.85 more than Ridgeroadstation.com currently has them listed for: ($3199.99)

http://www.ridgeroadstation.com/istar.asp?a=29&manufacturer=321&dept=trains&class=&subclass=&icon1=1


Raymond


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 12/31/2008 11:30 AM
Steve
My sig is made to strick a nerve, train nerve.....




And that is how it should be on a "*TRAIN*" forum. About *TRAINS*. You can look all over the internet and see where people use their "signature" to skurt forum rules and get in their personal agendas on many things that are best left for the intended forums and other places for those such topics. I get real sick of it. I have seen it on many forums other then MLS too. Believe me, this signature stuff can get out of hand real fast.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Ray 
It had been on there because I e-mailed him if the price was right. very tempting but I got in trouble once.. 

over a week ago I bought two USAT AS&SF pass cars for a great price. I went back to look for the other 4 GN cars and they was gone also.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

What price was he selling it for and which engine # was it?


Raymond


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 12/31/2008 3:37 PM
Ray 
It had been on there because I e-mailed him if the price was right. very tempting but I got in trouble once.. 
 
over a week ago I bought two USAT AS&SF pass cars for a great price. I went back to look for the other 4 GN cars and they was gone also.
 


Boy , you guys are dropping dead washingtons like their going out of style, i too wish someday to be able to buy that much stuff!!!!! im stuck with some broke down heavyweights and a newbright loco... he he he







 geeeez Marty Santa was good to you this year......
Nick


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi all, 
Happy New Year, 
I am Gary from Hong Kong, after read this theme few month ago, I had ordered this beautiful USAT Big Boy on last week from Gscalejunction, when the Big Boy arrived, I found the both side handrails on the front platform was broken, the tender lights not work even though I checked the connector are in right connection, it is so sad to me , any USAT Big Boy friends have these problems before?, may be I need to contact USAT to see how to repair the engine by myself, any advise, your help are much appreciated. 

I attached a link for the pictures http://bbs.hasea.com/attachments/month_0812/forumid_9/20081229_ac3834503da6c97a5911Bs2663f4b2FB.jpg 
http://bbs.hasea.com/attachments/month_0812/forumid_9/20081229_04f4d1477ba1b4f9e496cqrqACcQAqkn.jpg 

Regards, 
Gary


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Will..That's great that you have a fine USA Big Boy on order but one word of caution...They are heavy!!

Raymond, I spoke with Robbie at RLD a month or so back and he said that he had a USA Big Boy on the shelf that somebody was making payments on and then just stopped with no explanation and no responce from whoever. I have a feeling that's the one he had listed last week. It was #4014 with a price of $2,700.00...









Gary To, WOW...that's to bad the your Big Boy arrived messed up but USA parts & service are very good and I imagine they'll take care of you very prompt & professional...


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Chuck 
I just can't remember everything. I knew it was a good price.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Well earlier in this thread I posted that USA messed up by using cab curtains on this fine Big Boy model but I was wrong!!









After reading the book Big Boy by William Krattville the mighty U.P. did use cab curtains and the fine folks at USA Trains did get it right!!!









Though in the book no explanation was given as to why the U.P. used both cab doors & curtains I can only speculate that maybe those big doors were a nuisance to use and the curtains were more "handy"??


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, I was proably thinking along the same lines as you when I seen that price...hmmm...should I pull the trigger and buy another one???


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## Ltotis (Jan 3, 2008)

Engineercub, 
In my opinion the GG1 (Tuscan 5 stripe) is sexier but to each his own.








LAO


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary To, I got to thinking about your damage and I'm positive that USA has the detail parts that you need!!

Last November I spoke with USA parts about the availibility of handrails on the pilot and boiler and was told that yes they were in stock!!
I asked because a USA Big Boy that I seen for sale at a local train show was severely mis-handled by it's owner,,,it looked like it was picked up by the boiler top as the handrails were all bentup & twisted...also looked like it rammed another loco head-on the way the pilot was twisted.

So there's hope for yours!!


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gary To on 01/01/2009 7:46 AM
Hi all, 
Happy New Year, 
I am Gary from Hong Kong, after read this theme few month ago, I had ordered this beautiful USAT Big Boy on last week from Gscalejunction, when the Big Boy arrived, I found the both side handrails on the front platform was broken, the tender lights not work even though I checked the connector are in right connection, it is so sad to me , any USAT Big Boy friends have these problems before?, may be I need to contact USAT to see how to repair the engine by myself, any advise, your help are much appreciated. 

I attached a link for the pictures http://bbs.hasea.com/attachments/month_0812/forumid_9/20081229_ac3834503da6c97a5911Bs2663f4b2FB.jpg 
http://bbs.hasea.com/attachments/month_0812/forumid_9/20081229_04f4d1477ba1b4f9e496cqrqACcQAqkn.jpg 

Regards, 
Gary


Hi Gary, really sorry to hear about the engine. I can imagine your disappointment. I've seen one of these which had it's headlight wired wrong where it would only come on in reverse and the one I have has one of those pilot rail posts broken too. Because the other post is on there secure and the broken one stays in proper position I just chose not to worry about it. I agree with Chuck, I'd reach out to USA Trains, I'm sure they will help make it right. I imagine the tender light is some simple wiring mistake. 

Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 12/31/2008 4:55 PM
Posted By NTCGRR on 12/31/2008 3:37 PM
Ray 
It had been on there because I e-mailed him if the price was right. very tempting but I got in trouble once.. 

over a week ago I bought two USAT AS&SF pass cars for a great price. I went back to look for the other 4 GN cars and they was gone also.



Boy , you guys are dropping dead washingtons like their going out of style, i too wish someday to be able to buy that much stuff!!!!! im stuck with some broke down heavyweights and a newbright loco... he he he







geeeez Marty Santa was good to you this year......
Nick




LOL dead Washingtons... LOL

Yes, good to see you back posting. : )


Raymond


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Happy new years all.... Gary as Chuck and Ray have said USA will take care of what parts you might need. the loco is pack so tight in styrofoam that if you dont remove it straight from the box some of the parts get caught on the packaging and might break. i had a intercooler pipe broken on mine , took a photo sent it to uas the Next day i had a free replacement..... as usual USA train perfect customer service..
Nick


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Even with metal Loco's, I have found that on just about every Loco I have ever purchased, things get broke in transit.







Seems like the more expensive the Loco.............the more that gets broke.







I guess it's just the nature of the beast. And.................the way that the carriers throw packages around.


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## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary To, 

Don't I remember you as the one who was doing all the super detail work on a Dash 9? If so, welcome back and compared to your work on that diesel, you should be able to repair this engine with a blindfold and one arm tied down. 

Did you finish the Dash 9? 

John


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Chucks, Ray, Nick, John and all, 

Thanks for the comments on my case, I think USAT will send me a new parts for this engine.
I want to mention that is to fix this beautiful all metal heavy engine is much difficult to super detailing a plastic diesel engine. The intercooler pipes are soldered tightly onto the front platform, if you want to replace them, you need to take off those pipes, re-drill the holes and re-soldering the new spare parts ( without damage the painting ) by up side down the Big Boy. I don’t want to damage the painting because the original painting is so beautiful and if you repaint the damaged point the engine will looks ugly







…………….anyway, I will do my best to repair the engine, hope you all understand my English writing………..








May be I need to upgrade to 1st class member so that I can post some pictures on the froum to share the G scale train model experience with you all.








John, I had detailed two diesel engines, Dash 9 and SD45 HH, how about you?









Regards,
Gary


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

BTY, Ray,
I paid $3550 for the Big Boy







......................the Ridge Road Station just sell the Big Boy at $3199








Gary


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

LOL Ltotis, you are right, GG-1 is sexy too







and it is definately on my list. I should listen to you guys and buy it at Ridge Road. A few hundred dollars is a big difference. I wonder if they still have any #4000's. If Ridge Road can't get any 4000's then I will just get it directly from Charles. I don't mind supporting his cause







Gary To, I'm sorry to hear about your Big Boy







I'm sure USAT will help you out any way they can. They are very good with customers. 

-Will


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## John McGuyer (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary, 
I also did a Dash 9 and SD 45 both of which are heavily detailed. I also made the patterns for the Ozark diesel parts that I think you used some of. I think I also sent you a bunch of pictures of Dash 9 details. 

I have an Accucraft Cab-forward that is a heavy brass engine. It again is heavily detailed way beyond factory standards so am quite familiar with working on them. A resistance iron helps much. 

I do think the people here would like to see the work you've done. 

John


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck 
I may not run it much, but every time I go in the shop, I look at it as I walk past. Its just soooo big..... BIG..... 
Ain't no girly man engine.....


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Only GE's are girly-man engines.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Bigboys i love my Bigboy







Marty are you sayin im a girly man.....????????????? HE HE HE

















Nick


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, I sleep with mine...









Over 8000 hits...not bad for a locomotive that will never sell...


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

LOL Who said Big Boy would never sell?









-Will


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL well that's a long story that goes back to some rather spirited threads on what the direction of the hobby should be from this point. (Discussions here and on Aristocraft.com.) Bottom line, some folks who either have no interest, no room to run them, or layout with wide enough curves, or are unwilling to shell out the $ for one think the mfgs should make more smaller engines and feel the big engines won't sell. (by the numbers, smaller engines are already well represented in the product lines if you just go count them.) Others, like some following this thread, who really love the really large motive power disagree and feel this is where the hobby is and should be going to produce more of these types to more round out the overall product offering. I'm one of those (and I know I'm not alone) that wouldn't hardly own any largescale stuff if all they sold were eggliners and 0-4-0 switchers. On the Aristocraft forums the discussion came up and many like myself tried to encourage more big steam out of them but Aristocraft's position is the big steam doesn't sell as apparently they are having trouble selling their USRA 2-8-8-2 (Y-3) Mallets. But at the same time, MTH has had several production runs of their smaller 1:32 scale engines (which is probably not as popular a scale) and have all sold out. MTH has produced a Challenger which I think are all pretty much sold now and just a year or so ago announced the Triplex 2-8-8-8-4 which is some ways even larger which is just about to start shipping to customers. Just using MTH as an example alone, their sell-outs of the Big Boys and Challengers in 1:32 scale and the fact that they've continued to announce more new big steam such as the Triplex proves the large stuff will sell "IF" you make a design and model that well known and really desired. (i.e. stuff that has more of an iconic status) But MTH isn't alone in making more big steam. Accucraft is another that has very recently been announcing A LOT of new big steam, cab forwards, allegheny, 2-10-2 and their own big boy. So they are seeing the stuff will sell and are starting to bring more to market. Unfortunately for the Aristo Mallet (and this is just my opinion), I just don't think it was a design that really lit a fire under people like the Big Boy and some of these other engines do. I know one fellow here who really had no interest in larger engines but made an exception for the Challenger and Big Boy. I think Aristo chose the Mallet design because it 1) allowed them to reuse an existing complete drive train and one type of tender which allowed them to keep costs really low and 2) was an engine used on many different roads which is a belief some hold that is important for engine sales. They tried to minimize their $ risk by keeping design cost low and potentially interest a 'wider' market with more roadnames and guess it didn't pan out. In all fairness, I'm sure if they had unlimited development dollars to shell out for a new big steam engine like a Big Boy I'm sure they would have. I would have loved to see it as they would be the only ones producing 1:29 big steam in plastic. They probably could have produced a 1:29 Big Boy in plastic for a street price of maybe $1100 or so. Can you imagine? LOL As has just been said, the BB in 1:29 is just SO BIG! Just wait till you see yours for the first time. First words out of your mouth will probably be OH MY G*D! The next will be HOLY S**T this thing is heavy but we'll save that for later. LMAO ; )

Anyways, what's interesting is if you read up on the history of O guage, this evolution is exactly what they went through some years ago. No one had layouts to run the big steam, etc, etc, and thus many said, there would be no real demand. Well MTH came on the scene and started producing the Challenger, Big Boy, etc (just like they did in Largescale) and wouldn't you know it, people started buying them and modified their layouts so they could run them. 

I argue that it's was going to take having a well rounded product offering and not just your little toot toot engines to really grow the hobby and attract them from the other scales. I mean you aren't going to get mass conversions of HO scalers if all you offer is little 0-4-0 engines. 

BTW, have nothing against eggliners, I just don't have any interest in them...


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 01/02/2009 7:34 PM
Marty, I sleep with mine...









Over 8000 hits...not bad for a locomotive that will never sell...











LMAO 

And I have mine wired up to the wall outlet for any would be thief that would try to steal 'my precious'. lol

Chuck, if I bring my BB over you think we might be able to get them to make some little BBs? Maybe some die cast 1:32 versions?


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Gary,

Yeah that does sound like that could be difficult. I didn't look too hard at what would be involved in replacing mine but that doesn't surprise me. Maybe you could just reach out to them and let them tell you how to proceed. 

You are exactly right, there is a big difference between these all metal models and the plastic ones and is one reason I like plastic for everyday use outside on the layout. Not to knock this engine in any way as I'm glad we have such an incredible model brought to market.

Gary gave me permission some time ago to post his Dash-9 photos on my D-9 lowering page: http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/Aristocraft_Dash_9_lowering_project.htm See at the bottom. Gary did a GREAT job on it!

Chuck, thanks for the info. Really great and interesting to hear on the drapes and the availability of spare parts. I wonder if the 4023 in the photo still has the rods where they might have been hung? It looks like maybe it doesn't.

Wow, $2700 is one heck of a good price. I actually was surprised to see the street price had dropped to $3200. Don't need to see any more price drops or clearanced engines, I don't need the temptation either... 


Raymond


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 01/02/2009 8:38 PM
LOL well that's a long story that goes back to some rather spirited threads on what the direction of the hobby should be from this point.  (Discussions here and on Aristocraft.com.)  Bottom line, some folks who either have no interest, no room to run them, or layout with wide enough curves, or are unwilling to shell out the $ for one think the mfgs should make more smaller engines and feel the big engines won't sell.  (by the numbers, smaller engines are already well represented in the product lines if you just go count them.)  Others, like some following this thread, who really love the really large motive power disagree and feel this is where the hobby is and should be going to produce more of these types to more round out the overall product offering.  I'm one of those (and I know I'm not alone) that wouldn't hardly own any largescale stuff if all they sold were eggliners and 0-4-0 switchers.  On the Aristocraft forums the discussion came up and many like myself tried to encourage more big steam out of them but Aristocraft's position is the big steam doesn't sell as apparently they are having trouble selling their USRA 2-8-8-2 (Y-3) Mallets.  But at the same time, MTH has had several production runs of their smaller 1:32 scale engines (which is probably not as popular a scale) and have all sold out.   MTH has produced a Challenger which I think are all pretty much sold now and just a year or so ago announced the Triplex 2-8-8-8-4 which is some ways even larger which is just about to start shipping to customers.  Just using MTH as an example alone, their sell-outs of the Big Boys and Challengers in 1:32 scale and the fact that they've continued to announce more new big steam such as the Triplex proves the large stuff will sell "IF" you make a design and model that well known and really desired.  (i.e. stuff that has more of an iconic status)  But MTH isn't alone in making more big steam.  Accucraft is another that has very recently been announcing A LOT of new big steam, cab forwards, allegheny, 2-10-2 and their own big boy.  So they are seeing the stuff will sell and are starting to bring more to market.  Unfortunately for the Aristo Mallet (and this is just my opinion), I just don't think it was a design that really lit a fire under people like the Big Boy and some of these other engines do.  I know one fellow here who really had no interest in larger engines but made an exception for the Challenger and Big Boy.  I think Aristo chose the Mallet design because it 1) allowed them to reuse an existing complete drive train and one type of tender which allowed them to keep costs really low and 2) was an engine used on many different roads which is a belief some hold that is important for engine sales.  They tried to minimize their $ risk by keeping design cost low and potentially interest a 'wider' market with more roadnames and guess it didn't pan out.  In all fairness, I'm sure if they had unlimited development dollars to shell out for a new big steam engine like a Big Boy I'm sure they would have.  I would have loved to see it as they would be the only ones producing 1:29 big steam in plastic.  They probably could have produced a 1:29 Big Boy in plastic for a street price of maybe $1100 or so.  Can you imagine?  LOL  As has just been said, the BB in 1:29 is just SO BIG!  Just wait till you see yours for the first time.  First words out of your mouth will probably be OH MY G*D!  The next will be HOLY S**T this thing is heavy but we'll save that for later. LMAO  ; )
 
Anyways, what's interesting is if you read up on the history of O guage, this evolution is exactly what they went through some years ago.  No one had layouts to run the big steam, etc, etc, and thus many said, they're is no real demand.  Well MTH came on the scene and started producing the Challenger, Big Boy, etc (just like they did in Largescale) and wouldn't you know it, people started buying them and modified their layouts so they could run them.  
 
I argue that it's was going to take having a well rounded product offering and not just your little toot toot engines to really grow the hobby and attract them from the other scales.  I mean you aren't going to get mass conversions of HO scalers if all you offer is little 0-4-0 engines.  
 
BTW, have nothing against eggliners, I just don't have any interest in them...
 
 
Raymond



 
 
 
 
 
 
Ray your my hero, i couldnt have said it better my self.......... by the way how is your speach coming forMartys steam up???????  ARE YOU GETTING A CHARGE OUT OF IT YET!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nick


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Now Nick... if you aren't careful someone might think you're trying to strike a train nerve.







You know we really can only get so much mileage with all the bunny jokes, but it just keeps going, and going and going... 

LOL but seriously, I'm a pretty low key dude and I don't know that I'm meant to be behind microphones. 











Will: in case you missed it, we're having fun (as we often do here on MLS) in another thread and I guess it's getting carried over here... 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/14/postid/70148/view/topic/Default.aspx 


Raymond


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

LOL No I got the joke, I'm still staying 'pure DC', I'm kinda old-fashioned that way. But people are more than welcome to use their gas, diesel, battery, wind-up, sail powered units on my layout if they wish.


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

These USA Trains Big Boys look awesome, I can't believe the fine detail. how much do they weigh? 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*"Peace through Strength" - Ronald Reagan. A Great President, Patriot, and Leader.*


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

The locomotive itself is something like 45 lbs. & the tender is like 15 lbs...


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## Steve S. (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, that is awesome. That is a lot of engine for the price. 


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*"Peace through Strength" - Ronald Reagan. A Great President, Patriot, and Leader.*


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 01/02/2009 8:43 PM
Posted By Chucks_Trains on 01/02/2009 7:34 PM
Marty, I sleep with mine...









Over 8000 hits...not bad for a locomotive that will never sell...











LMAO 

And I have mine wired up to the wall outlet for any would be thief that would try to steal 'my precious'. lol

Chuck, if I bring my BB over you think we might be able to get them to make some little BBs? Maybe some die cast 1:32 versions?


Raymond



Hehehehe..yours is hot wired...









Make some little BB's...LOL


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

woow, this is still growing, I can't read all of Rays, hes to windy in his posts.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

this is what i love about this forum.... you guys crack me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

In person Ray is quite, nice and easy to get along with, get him on here and he becomes an animal..... Never call his trains ,girly, you'll never hear the end of it. 

Nic
thats the main reason I go to shows any more. Its to meet those i chat with on here. Plus the Sept open house is worth the friends ships.
(and yes I can't seem to remember everyone at first)


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

LOL Ray? An animal? He's always been nice to me on and off MLS, and VERY helpful. The greatest thing about Ray's advice to me has been that he tells you what he prefers and why, but then tells you that it is very important to do what works for you and not to just blindly follow his footsteps. He still makes you think even though you could just do what worked for him. If Ray is an animal I'd have to say he is an owl, wise and eager to help lol. Woohoo, less than 30 days and I'll have my BigBoy!!!! *p.a. speaker* "Doctor? Will is in hyper anxious mode again, I think he's going to need more valium, maybe a sledgehammer over the head"

-Will


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Will 
don't worry about it, it will all go away the first time the BB derails and lays over on its side. Then panic....sets in.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 01/04/2009 1:24 PM
Will 
don't worry about it, it will all go away the first time the BB derails and lays over on its side. Then panic....sets in.





OOOOOOO tht wouldnt be funny!!! Id be freaking out...Marty have you laid yours on its side? i hope not.
Nick


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Marty don't tell me that, you are making me nervous =( 

-Will


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

And that actually brings up another good point for you to keep in mind Will concerning your new layout plans. If you plan to run your USA BB, I would select a roadbed that is good and stable as you will want to keep very good track work for this thing. It's a pretty rigid engine and not as 'agile' as many others. There are some good ways to do your roadbed so you should be able to minimize settling of the ground. And heaven forbid if you roll it, I don't think they came with a free bottle of tranquilizers or at least mine didn't... 

Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

If it derails and lays over so what??

It's gotta be rolled over on it's side and/or top for maintenance anyway sowhat's the big deal..it's a TOY...


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

yes, due to a stick I did not see on a curve, and remember,its just a ,,,TOY!!!!! 
If I had less than 20' dia I would not have boughten it.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Murphy's law will catch ya sooner or later and it may just roll off the track. Just like the big boys. Later RJD


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

BTW Marty since you are the expert in rolling over the BB how is the underside detail.







Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

RJ 
I bought a motercycle lift to run it onto and raise it up soI can work under it, . 
when I converted it to onboard batt I had to beef up my holder thingy to keep it in place. but very easy to convert. After wards i thought I should have just clipped the main two wires and placed a DPDT switch there. but no room for the switch in the gear area.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Always wondered how one would work on one of these and then get it to the track. Later RJD


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 01/01/2009 10:57 AM
Happy new years all.... Gary as Chuck and Ray have said USA will take care of what parts you might need. the loco is pack so tight in styrofoam that if you dont remove it straight from the box some of the parts get caught on the packaging and might break. i had a intercooler pipe broken on mine , took a photo sent it to uas the Next day i had a free replacement..... as usual USA train perfect customer service..
Nick



Hi Nick, 
I just received both new intercooler pipes from USAT, have you replaced your broken intercooler pipe ? if yes, can you share me some experience of this job. It seems to be difficult to disassembly the pilot of the Big Boy. Thanks








Raymond,
I just checked the Tender lights, all lights on when I apply a 6VDC to the plug, I think the problem is come from the Big Boy main body output driving circuit, I also request USAT send me a electronic circuit diagram but they don't, I think I need to open the boiler to see what's the problem.










Gary To


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Gary To on 01/12/2009 7:09 AM
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 01/01/2009 10:57 AM
Happy new years all.... Gary as Chuck and Ray have said USA will take care of what parts you might need. the loco is pack so tight in styrofoam that if you dont remove it straight from the box some of the parts get caught on the packaging and might break. i had a intercooler pipe broken on mine , took a photo sent it to uas the Next day i had a free replacement..... as usual USA train perfect customer service..
Nick



Hi Nick, 
I just received both new intercooler pipes from USAT, have you replaced your broken intercooler pipe ? if yes, can you share me some experience of this job. It seems to be difficult to disassembly the pilot of the Big Boy. Thanks








Raymond,
I just checked the Tender lights, all lights on when I apply a 6VDC to the plug, I think the problem is come from the Big Boy main body output driving circuit, I also request USAT send me a electronic circuit diagram but they don't, I think I need to open the boiler to see what's the problem.










Gary To







Gary,
My intercooler pipe was almost completly off, i just removed it the rest of the way and took a pin drill, and drilled out all holes by hand then used a little black j b weld and stuck it back on. looks good as new and i didnt have to take anything apart at all..








Nick


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 01/15/2009 7:56 AM
Posted By Gary To on 01/12/2009 7:09 AM
Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 01/01/2009 10:57 AM
Happy new years all.... Gary as Chuck and Ray have said USA will take care of what parts you might need. the loco is pack so tight in styrofoam that if you dont remove it straight from the box some of the parts get caught on the packaging and might break. i had a intercooler pipe broken on mine , took a photo sent it to uas the Next day i had a free replacement..... as usual USA train perfect customer service..
Nick



Hi Nick, 
I just received both new intercooler pipes from USAT, have you replaced your broken intercooler pipe ? if yes, can you share me some experience of this job. It seems to be difficult to disassembly the pilot of the Big Boy. Thanks








Raymond,
I just checked the Tender lights, all lights on when I apply a 6VDC to the plug, I think the problem is come from the Big Boy main body output driving circuit, I also request USAT send me a electronic circuit diagram but they don't, I think I need to open the boiler to see what's the problem.










Gary To







Gary,
My intercooler pipe was almost completly off, i just removed it the rest of the way and took a pin drill, and drilled out all holes by hand then used a little black j b weld and stuck it back on. looks good as new and i didnt have to take anything apart at all..








Nick


Thanks Nick,
You gave me some great idea, honestly, I am not enjoy to repair this beautiful engine








Gary


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Gary,
Based on the work ive seen you do in the past this should be a piece of cake for you..take your time go slow it will come out great...


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, I figured I'd breathe some new life into this forum, I AM FINALLY GETTING MY BIG BOY!!! WOOHOO!!! Just ordered it from Ridge Road yesterday, they say it should be here by Friday of next week. Thanks guys by the way for letting me know about Ridge Road's price difference, much appreciated! I can't wait... ((((JOY))))

-Will


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Way to go Will...


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Congrats! we want pictures!


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Jeez, for a large locomotive that a lot of people said wouldnt sell that well, these seem to be selling great.* *Lets just see how [history] plays this out. Maybe some of our history buffs can tell us how to spell USA TRAINS BIGBOY..







*


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sweet! Yes, please share pics. Really interested to hear what you think.

















Raymond


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Scale???


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty, in your picture where you see the motors, it looks like the universal on the right hand motor is disconnected or even broken. Am I seeing things? 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg 
You have eyes but can not see. 
its fixed now. This pour old girl needed lots of TLC. few more evenings I think she'll be up and running. Just recieved it today. Fixing it for a friend. 
My wife has not seen it ,,yet.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

?? So, it seems that my eyes were ok. That IS a broken universal joint right? 

This is not your Big Boy? 

Can you tell us how it happened? 

Regards, Greg 

(I'll stay blind if need be! ha ha)


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

That photo is not a good sign. Somebody messes up was it the operator? Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I copied the picture, blew it up and lightened it. Now I can see the entire universal joint, looks like it is just disconnected, not snapped in two. 

So, Marty's BB repair service is alive and well? 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

AH!!!!!!
Checking up on me ah??
I have my BB open to the left of this one. I've got the parts fixed except for the very fine brass front parts.
All seems to be as it should be BUT,,,, all lights work fine in reverse, but hit foward and they all go out. I have traced most of the wires and nothing is pintched or cut so far. what a mess. I did find one under cab wire pintched.

I'm keeping it track power for the moment. It will head to the CB Iowa mixed train show this weekend to run as a display. make those baby scalers cry...


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Cruel man, odd for such a new loco to need so much work.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I see an awful lot of wires, have fun! 

Not checking up on you, checking up on me, for not looking more closely the first time! 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Whats that word he mentioned? TRACK POWER. Yikes the kid is scaring me. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Yaaaa, Me too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty,

That must have been one big stick to derail a 75lb loco! I used to freak out when my live steamer would scream down my roller coaster hill, derail and crash. And that was a loco that cost half what this one does. 

It seems like there are a lot of repairs for a loco that costs over $3k. I am frankly surprised that there are still wiring issues with USAT steamers. I know there were issues with pinched wires on the early run of hudsons, but I would have thought QC would have caught it for this unit.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I talked to Neil at USAT and he told me to send it in and he would fix it. I've learned so much on this one that I am writing dwon how to covert it for battery RC in a simple plug and play way. Man it will cut time down to 15 mins or so.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmm..the peanut gallery has chimmed in and spoken about a product that they've probably never even seen and will probably never own...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What sound system did the BB come with? Some USAT ones come with a QSI of sorts. 

What can you control on DC? 

Just curious. 

Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Good one, Chuck! 

FYI, I have seen the USA Big Boy in person, and you are right, I don't have the resources or the desire to buy one. But, I think my point is valid. A $3000+ locomotive should have 0 problems and the manufacturer should bend over backward for anyone willing to purchase.


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Well I was hoping that right now I would be writing a BigBoy review but due to an accident in shipping I am going to have to wait. I opened it and the tender was fine, but the locomotive's case was cracked down the side. Upon further investigation some parts on the locomotive were broken as well. I will find out tomorrow how Ridge Road wants to go about trading it for another. I'm pretty sad but at least I will be getting a replacement. I will say that the packaging is REALLY sturdy and tough so whatever happened to cause this during shipping must have been a really big bump. The packaging is the wooden equivalent to what power plants carry toxic waste away in lol. It really is damn sturdy. I would think that someone probably dropped it from a pretty fair height. At the place where the crack was in the case the locomotive also was forced out of the flange grooves on the wooden plank. And considering how well it is bolted down, I can't imagine a small bump doing this. 
Right now I am imagining a guy in his young 20's with an I-pod in his ears, carrying a USA Trains box to a truck, dropping it and saying, "Dude, I totally feel sorry for whoever this is going to". But in any case, thankfully people are insured. On a brighter note, the locomotive and tender are HUGE! and HEAVY! lol. It is definately quite a sight to behold but I don't think it would be right to review it until I see and hear it in action. As far as the looks, it is very impressive and I don't feel ripped off with the price tag. It is VERY detailed. Pictures don't really do it justice. I'll write more when I get it replaced, thanks for reading. 

-Will


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

And no evidence of damage from the outside???

I bought MicroMarks 7x12 lathe and it showed up with not evidence of rough handling either. But when I tried to unbolt it from the plywood base of the crate, the 1st cap bolt would rotate a bit and then bind up. Applying more pressure it would give a bit and then bind up again. I tried the second bolt and it was the same, but a bit easier. I tried the 1st one again and noted that as it rotated the whole lathe would shift in a bit of an arc! I found that if I "helped" the lathe to move around and worked with the two bolts at the same time it became lots easier to rotate the bolts to extract them.

When I finally got them out, well, you can see below why they were hard to remove....Given the total lack of any evidence of damage on the outside, I don't know how these bolts ended up looking like this!


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Engineercub on 01/31/2009 4:56 PM
Well I was hoping that right now I would be writing a BigBoy review but due to an accident in shipping I am going to have to wait. I opened it and the tender was fine, but the locomotive's case was cracked down the side. Upon further investigation some parts on the locomotive were broken as well. I will find out tomorrow how Ridge Road wants to go about trading it for another. I'm pretty sad but at least I will be getting a replacement. I will say that the packaging is REALLY sturdy and tough so whatever happened to cause this during shipping must have been a really big bump. The packaging is the wooden equivalent to what power plants carry toxic waste away in lol. It really is damn sturdy. I would think that someone probably dropped it from a pretty fair height. At the place where the crack was in the case the locomotive also was forced out of the flange grooves on the wooden plank. And considering how well it is bolted down, I can't imagine a small bump doing this. 
Right now I am imagining a guy in his young 20's with an I-pod in his ears, carrying a USA Trains box to a truck, dropping it and saying, "Dude, I totally feel sorry for whoever this is going to". But in any case, thankfully people are insured. On a brighter note, the locomotive and tender are HUGE! and HEAVY! lol. It is definately quite a sight to behold but I don't think it would be right to review it until I see and hear it in action. As far as the looks, it is very impressive and I don't feel ripped off with the price tag. It is VERY detailed. Pictures don't really do it justice. I'll write more when I get it replaced, thanks for reading. 

-Will

Hi Will and all,
Sorry to hear about your Big Boy, you are lucky than me, I only can say is if this case happen on me, it is impossible to ship back the Big Boy to USA for replacement.(Because I live in Hong Kong)
You are right, the wooden box is not protect enough for this heavy engine, at least they need to tighten the front wheels on the wooden base to prevent damage the intercooler pipes, I just received two new intercooler pipes from USAT and they promised to send me again the new front piston and the cab roof for parts replacement.
Just to share some photos for my Big Boy.
Gary To


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

So Mark your only contibution to this whole 11 page thread is to tell USA Trains how to run their business??


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Semper Vaporo, I have a Cummings mini-lathe which is infact the same as the Micro Mark and the hold down bolts looked just like yours!!

Lathe wasn't damaged at all nut the hold down bolts are useless..


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Will & Gary To,

Seeing the damage to the pilot kinda reminds me of when Aristo would ship the Dash-9's out with the extra fuel tank weights packed loose in the box and they would wreck the pilots..now Aristo charges $$$ for weights that at one time were included with the locomotive purchase...









Gary it's good to know that USA is sending you replacement parts and we all know that they would!!

Will..that's a shame that your's was delivered damaged to...mine made it from USA to Chicago in fine shape..maybe FedEx started a new campaign to damage every package that they handle in 2009??


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Hiya Guys! Gary To, I'm glad USA sent you replacement parts. I expected that they would. USA Trains has been a pleasure to deal with since I was 18 years old and bought my first GP-9 from them. Chuck thanks for the support, it was actually UPS that shipped it but what doesn't make any sense is that the packaging shows no signs of damage on the outside that equates to what happened inside. It looks like it may have been damaged before packaging but I'm not entirely sure. In any case Marilyn at Ridge Road is going to have Gary contact me with instructions on the claim. At the moment, it looks like I will be keeping the current Tender as it accrued no damage and just having the locomotive replaced. I hope that neither Ridge Road or USA Trains eats any money on this deal as it is difficult to tell whose fault it really is. I am going to take pictures of the damage as evidence. I still can't believe the locomotive was damaged with as tough as the packaging is. It really had to be a big bump regardless of what happened. I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens.

-Will


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

I haven't seen this answer anywhere but I would like to know how much the Boy Boy weighs? 

Thanks,
Doug


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

The locomotive weighs 72 lbs and tender 42 lbs, totalling 114 lbs in the packaging. Subtract about 15 lbs for the cases and that would put you pretty close to 100 lbs. I will weigh it to get a precise answer for you though when I get the chance. ^^ It really is ungodly heavy for a model locomotive, lol.


-Will


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Engineercub on 02/06/2009 6:19 AM
The locomotive weighs 72 lbs and tender 42 lbs, totalling 114 lbs in the packaging. Subtract about 15 lbs for the cases and that would put you pretty close to 100 lbs. I will weigh it to get a precise answer for you though when I get the chance. ^^ It really is ungodly heavy for a model locomotive, lol.


-Will 

Thanks Will,

I am getting ready to pull the triger on one but wanted to know how much shoring up I would have to do on the layout outside when I get it back in place.


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

Has anyone Run a USAT BigBoy on a 14 foot diameter curve. If so, any problems. I quess if I had to, I could modify my #1 mainline to 16 foot but too much other work to do................Jim


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Sounds great Doug ^^ I'm sure you won't regret it. And Jim I think 16' diameter is absolute minimum for the running gears and centipede wheeled tender. It would have a bit of overhang with 16 so I would recommend 20+ if you could. If you call USA Trains they will tell you for sure and are a friendly bunch. ^^

-Will


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Its not so much a case of how small a diameter U can get it to run on, as it a case of how bad U want it 
to look while its running... U can probably get it to run on 8 ft diameter if U tried, but it "ain't" gonna be 
pretty... I've seen one run on 10 ft dia, an I'm here to tell U that it ran on it alright, but it sure was an 
ugly sight to see, engines that big belong on 20 ft dia, or larger...
Paul R...


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck,
No where in my post do I refer to the business practices of USA or their marketing strategy. Are you sure you read the post here in this thread?? 



It was merely an observation. After all, this is a review thread. I am frankly surprised to read about electrical problems, and then, when USA's service department tells the customer to send his 115# loco back for repair, that there is not some huge uproar. There have recently been major threads about that exact service from Aristo on a much smaller loco, but when there is an electrical problem with this loco, it is OK? That doesn't make sense to me. 



Stop trying to pick a fight with me. How do you know that in 12 months I won't be in the market for this or similar locomotive? Are only those who own this loco allowed to post? That'd be a new rule. Just 3 months ago, I did not think I would be buying a Mallet. Yet here I am, running a mallet in snowplow service outside. 


My contribution: Again, USA follows the influence of Lionel. Hudson, GG1, Big Boy and docksider. From the ones I have seen, it is a big, beautiful locomotive but be sure that you can lift 75 lbs from the ground. Maybe they should have included bolt on handles like on the GG1 for lifting and/or rerailing.


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

markoles,

Ha! I can drive mine out from the basement through a window I midified some years ago so I could load the trains from the shelves and send them to the layout.
Guess I will have to build a siding for it and lift it at least once up to the track.


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## jmill24 (Jan 11, 2008)

I wonder if my wife would mind a small jib crane mounted on the corner post of the porch?...........Jim


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Okay this trhead is getting pretty long but after reading it and peaking my interest I have what is probably a really dumb question.

The MTH BIGBOY is a slightly smaller scale (I think 1:32) and the USA is larger @ 1:29
I have read that everyone is pretty stoked and really recommends MTH because of their quality and that USA is still really great but some have had a few minor issues.

So why the HUGE price difference? 
Is it scale, quality, features, construction.... all of the above?
One day I would love to add a BIGBOY to the collection and the scale difference is not really that big a deal to me, but there must me something I am missing to justify the big difference in $

Thanks for helping make informed decisions.

Todd


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

USAT version is metal, MTH is plastic


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Well Todd, Rayman4449 has pics of both of the BigBoys (MTH and USA Trains) side by side if you would like to see the difference. They are both great locomotives but the USA Trains clearly is much more detailed, bigger, heavier, and from what I have heard about pulling performance, much stronger. Rayman could tell you the differences exactly though. MTH is a great company too though. You wouldn't go wrong getting their BigBoy as it can make tighter curves and is DCS ready (if you have DCS). If you saw the USA Trains BigBoy in person though, you'd see why it is so expensive as it is just visually magnificent. It is one of USA Trains' "Prestige Series" which pretty much equates to: Not everyone can afford this baby, but the ones who can won't be disappointed. 
I didn't get the chance to run mine either so I can't say anything about performance. Mine just got dropped by some idiot who didn't have respect for how heavy it is. USA Trains has a good track record with me. I've never recieved anything that "didn't run" or had "electrical problems" with them so I would assume my BigBoy would have run fine but it was damaged so it needs to go back to USA Trains for some repairs, mainly to the case though. I certainly hope it ends up on someone else's layout though after repairs. I'd be sad to see it in a junk yard or something T_T . UPS showed up today and it should be resolved within the week according to them and Ridge Road Station. Wish me luck ^^ 

-Will


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Will and lownote covered the key points.

The USA Trains version is just on a completely different level of detail and is more like a mini-replica. Seeing a 1:32 and 1:29 Big Boy side by side really demonstrates the size difference in scale unlike anything I've ever seen.... the 1:29 version is huge.

My website has a lot of photos of both for this very reason so folks like yourself can get a good look at them. Check them out and see if that helps.


Raymond


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Ray, can you refit a US BB to PS2? I think there are flywheel(s) in the puppy... 


ummm

gg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Gavin, the answer at this point is yes should be no problem. I would use either two DCS boards or a DCS board with a slave board to drive both motors because of the amp draw. Neither Chuck or I have done it yet, but I think Chuck will be the first to get his converted. I don’t run mine so my motivation to upgrade it isn’t as great. 

Raymond


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 02/06/2009 4:36 PM
Gavin, the answer at this point is yes should be no problem. I would use either two DCS boards or a DCS board with a slave board to drive both motors because of the amp draw. Neither Chuck or I have done it yet, but I think Chuck will be the first to get his converted. I don’t run mine so my motivation to upgrade it isn’t as great. 

Raymond 

















Very good, best of both worlds. BB is too big for my place here however I see a role for it elsewhere. 

gg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, I'm trying to understand your posts as they really don't make any sense t me.

Let me explain, On 1/31/09 you posted that you _don't have the resources or the desire to buy one.
_But on 2/6/09 you post that _in 12 months you maybe in the market to buy this locomotive or a similar one.

_So you do have a desire for a USA Trains Big Boy?? If you do than congratulations!! In 12 months I'll start a new USA Big Boy thread just to see how you like the beast.

On 2/6/09 you posted _I am frankly suprised to read about electrical problems, and then, when USA's service department tells the customer to send his 115# loco back for repair, that there is not some huge uproar.







_ To me the huge uproar would be if USA service told the customer that they can't fix it or did you mean that USA should maybe send out a service tech., ie make a house call??

I don't know how folks come up with a 75 - 100lb. locomotive. 
As I posted a few pages back the locomotive weighs 45lbs. and the tender 15lbs. 

As far as picking a fight, well you started that a few years back by slamming MTH, USA and well any manufacturer that isn't Aristo


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys

Commentary about the loco can be made but commenting on an individual's situation is not permitted. The thread will be locked if you guys cannot focus on trains instead of fighting with each other.

If you really feel you must make a derogatory personal comment, take it to email.

Regards ... Doug


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

WOOHOO!! Thanks Doug, no more fighting makes Will happy ^^

-Will


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Fighting,,, on MLS ?? never. but this is what happens when your NOT out working on the railroad. 
I wonder if some poster s ever really "play" trains?


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By jmill24 on 02/06/2009 7:10 AM
Has anyone Run a USAT BigBoy on a 14 foot diameter curve. If so, any problems. I quess if I had to, I could modify my #1 mainline to 16 foot but too much other work to do................Jim



It'll handle a 14.5' diameter curve but doesn't really like it and on a 14' curve the lead engine will tend to lift off of the inside rail unless the front steam admission pipes are modified in some way.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 02/07/2009 6:58 PM
Fighting,,, on MLS ?? never. but this is what happens when your NOT out working on the railroad. 
I wonder if some poster s ever really "play" trains?


Me thinks that some posters are posers...or drug addicts...


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Chucks_Trains on 02/07/2009 7:05 PM
Posted By NTCGRR on 02/07/2009 6:58 PM
Fighting,,, on MLS ?? never. but this is what happens when your NOT out working on the railroad. 
I wonder if some poster s ever really "play" trains?


Me thinks that some posters are posers...or drug addicts...












You didn't read what Doug posted, did you?


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Yeah, for real lownote







, let's talk about BigBoy, it is amazing. I can't wait to review it when I get my new locomotive. ^^

-Will


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

If you want to see things settle down then the negativity has to stop from both sides. It is an unfortunate truth that some here do follow others & certain topics around just to drop negative comments (that add no value to the post) about either the person, what they choose to buy or what they are doing. I'm not going to weigh in on whether or not I think that was the case here as I really don't care but the fact is it does go on and it's been allowed to go on for a long time. 


Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Will, when is your replacement supposed to be here? I really feel bad yours was so badly damaged, but I bet your next one will be fine. 


Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 02/07/2009 7:09 PM
Posted By Chucks_Trains on 02/07/2009 7:05 PM
Posted By NTCGRR on 02/07/2009 6:58 PM
Fighting,,, on MLS ?? never. but this is what happens when your NOT out working on the railroad. 
I wonder if some poster s ever really "play" trains?


Me thinks that some posters are posers...or drug addicts...












You didn't read what Doug posted, did you? 



You don't know why he posted that do you?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Gentlemen

No discussion, it's simple, get back on topic and keep it on topic, if not the topic is locked.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I feel postive about Rays statment. 
13 pages is enough. 
I'm on my 2nd BB and its almost repaired.


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi all,
One questions, if I want to run the Big Boy in double head, does anyone replaced the original metal coupler by a USAT operated plastic coupler? The front pocket seems not room enough for the swing of the new coupler (just only rotate around 90 degrees from the left to right), any idea?
Regards,
Gary To


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

good Q. maybe back your tender up to it and see if its possible?


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Ok I just read through this entire thread "my head is spinning right now" Long! 
Since I'm just wait for a price on shipping I though before I order I should as for a few reassurances.

1- It will run on a 20 diameter curve ok?

2- 14 foot is the minimum?
3- #6 switched will work but you have to go slow? Would it be better to go bigger then? I want to be able to go

track speed though a section where is will share another line.
Sorry for asking this but I just want to be sure since the rail is all up right now an I have an opportunity to make the new layout work for it.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to be patient with my questions.

Doug


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Hiya Doug, Yes BigBoy will run on 20' diameter curve ok. Rayman4449 has a pic on his site of the overhang on 20'. As for 14', I don't know if it could handle that, but if it could, it would look really bad methinks. As for #6 switches, so long as you don't have any sharp curves before or after them I would think it would have no problem going track speed through them. If all your curves are 20' radius it would probably be fine but you might want to test it before laying the track. On my design, I have tangent track before and after my double crossover just to make sure. 
Gary To, I was wondering about that myself. I'll try it once I get my new loco.



-Will


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Engineercub on 02/08/2009 9:14 AM
Hiya Doug, Yes BigBoy will run on 20' diameter curve ok. Rayman4449 has a pic on his site of the overhang on 20'. As for 14', I don't know if it could handle that, but if it could, it would look really bad methinks. As for #6 switches, so long as you don't have any sharp curves before or after them I would think it would have no problem going track speed through them. If all your curves are 20' radius it would probably be fine but you might want to test it before laying the track. On my design, I have tangent track before and after my double crossover just to make sure. 
Gary To, I was wondering about that myself. I'll try it once I get my new loco.



-Will

Thanks Will for the prompt reply. I've been sitting here rethinking the new track plan. I think instead of sharing a common like I will lay double track and put the # 6 switches in for a cross over. I have planed to put a single main line around the whole perimiter of the fence Aprox 900 feet.
I think I read 16 1/2 diameter at one point so I should be able to go to the smaller main line then. This makes me feel better about getting one now.
Thanks again Doug


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary, I bet you can get it coupled. Even if you have to lift and lower the tender coupler into place on the front pilot. If you want a working coupler and can't get a USA T in there, you should be able to get a G scale kadee to work, I was able to get a modified Kadee on my 1:32 MTH Big Boys.

Doug, I think that's a good idea to keep separate mains. You should'nt have an issue running straight through a #6 at track speed but I don't know that I would try to with it switched to the side. I originally had a #6 at the end of a curve (20ft diam) and the first time it went through at a semi slow to moderate speed it derailed. I looked that area over and it was all very flat and am still not sure what caused it. I ended up removing the turnout for other reasons later, but I was coming into the switch from the curved outside, not straight through. Having separate ovals and going straight through the switches you have on those ovals I think is the right plan of attack if you plan to run this engine.

I would imagine as you go tighter and tighter beyond 20ft you may be more prone to issues if your track isn't level and even. If at all possible I would stick with 20ft curves min everywhere.


Raymond


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Doug, here is the design I came up with after many many many attempts.

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/engineercub/ConrailResurrectionProject.jpg


This design had BigBoy in mind the whole time so all curves are 20' , 21.6' , and 30' diameter. I am working on a model of the layout so that it makes more sense as the program I used won't show grades. Both lines will be 'BigBoy Ready' and I'm aiming for 1% grade maximum to achieve higher track speeds. Around the outer parimeter is a walking path and the layout will be raised 2-3 feet. It's a challenge but I'm anxious nonetheless. ^^


-Will


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you have the space, why not use #8 or greater switches on the main line, or at least for crossovers? 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

E T go home!!!!!! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ilDUxD8Upk 

This last sat I showed and helped Bubba upgrade is #1 main to 18'dia curves and his yard lead to handle the BB. for one days work it was worth the effort.
It was a spur of the minute decision. 
18' dia, we took two 6ft AML sections, railclamped them togetherand ran the double rail bender over it untill it was desired curve.


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Engineercub on 02/08/2009 9:51 AM
Doug, here is the design I came up with after many many many attempts.

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/engineercub/ConrailResurrectionProject.jpg


This design had BigBoy in mind the whole time so all curves are 20' , 21.6' , and 30' diameter. I am working on a model of the layout so that it makes more sense as the program I used won't show grades. Both lines will be 'BigBoy Ready' and I'm aiming for 1% grade maximum to achieve higher track speeds. Around the outer parimeter is a walking path and the layout will be raised 2-3 feet. It's a challenge but I'm anxious nonetheless. ^^


-Will 

Nice design. My lot is from the back of the house 468 by 120. I have to work around the Koi pond that is right up to the deck, 30 inches to the pond.I will post a layout soon. I've been penciling for the last week refining the new one. I want to use a lot of the old layout in the new one so I don't have so much to redo. My old layout went 3 housed down but now I have a new neighbor "loosely termed" that is trying to steel from me all the time so the layout will be confined by a 6 foot privacy fence with electric wire on top. Yes that bad!
I plan to add a 120 foot long stream and another pond conecting both together.


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Ok one last question? It comes with sound, are you all satisfied with the sound system?


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

[No message]


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 02/08/2009 3:36 PM I guess this means yes and you are happy? Doug Thanks


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

One more question? Is the sound system a Phoenix sound system?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Heck no not a Phoenix. later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Yup. it is a Phoenix sound system


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

SOLD I'm ordering this week. Pheonix is my favorite sound system.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks fNick that's one way to get a good answer. No one else was biting . Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Nohandles on 02/10/2009 5:20 AM
SOLD I'm ordering this week. Pheonix is my favorite sound system. 





Congradulations, this is a great trouble free engine, glad to see another one has sold itself







watch out for those Fedex guys, they can be a little rough with your new engine.....


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Marty,Ray and will
Thanks for the suggession of the front couper. 
A lot of railroad friends wants to come my home to seeing this huge monster, the BB is great, but I think if the somking system is use the *KM-1 dynamic smoke system*, the engine performance are much better








Hi Doug,
What BB no. you are interesting in, I think too many people ( including me) like the 4000, does anyone bought the sliver or black version?
regards,
Gary









[/b][/b]


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

I think it will be the 4012. I have no preference to either the solid black or the silver and black. In fact it is silver and black it would different than everyone else's.


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Ni hao peng-you Gary To! You're welcome ^^ and yes the BigBoy has a Phoenix sound system in it for whoever asked. Sorry for the lapse in reply but I have been working alot. I'm glad to be the owner of such a nice locomotive.










-Will 


p.s. - MARTY!!! MAKE SOME MORE VIDEOS OF YOUR BIGBOY!!! I enjoyed watching it on your layout, especially over the steel suspension bridge. AWESOME!


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## Rod Hayward (Jan 2, 2008)

That the village people ?


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Ok guys as we speak it's only been 2 minutes since I ordered it. Should be here next week. Oh Boy can't wait. I'll have to wait a little while to run on the layout though but it will run in the living room for a while.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Will 
last night and beings it snowed today I welded two replacement bridges for Craig's canyon. One is installed, one is drying. I also got the gazebo stained the other late afternoon and the sun room. all left over from last years list. 
I have the new reworked 4014 totally running. I recieved the replacement board from Charlie Ro today. I also got parts from Navin for Kevins poor, miss treated SD45. 
This weekend is busy so we'll see how next week goes. 
thanks for asking. 

Bridge tempary(on left) one is gone with new one in.Right will be changed also. its wood and was hit by a falling lime.
This photo is 2006 when the line was upgraded to double track.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice Doug. How big is your living room?!










Raymond


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

That is a damn nice bridge Marty, did you make that yourself? Can't wait to see your 4014 back in action! 

-Will


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 02/13/2009 5:08 PM
Nice Doug. How big is your living room?!










Raymond

16 feet so I should be able to 3 wheel revolutions each way LOL

dOUG


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hahaha Mine doesn't even fit on my coffee table. 


Raymond


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 02/13/2009 6:19 PM
Hahaha Mine doesn't even fit on my coffee table. 


Raymond

Well I can at least put it on one of those long couch tables that I display brass trains on in the living room. I think It will be right at home in the back yard this summer.


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## planenut (Jan 4, 2008)

I do have the 4012 bb and It looks great,a real runner


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Planenut, That's cool and glad to hear that it's a great runner!!

My 4000 is sitting in a display case until I get some engine yards built then it'll be converted to the MTH DCS Proto-Sound 2 Electronics as I would prefer to work on this one while it's sitting on the layout..less handling the beast that way...


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is one engine I really look forward to seeing converted to DCS Protosound. So how long do you think it will be before you put an MTH smoking whistle on it?

















Raymond


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

what will you do with the old Phonex board??hint..


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Boy I sure hate is when the wife has a really good point. We were taking about the Big Boy coming and she brought up a good pint. We HAVE TO HAVE a new roof in the next month or so and she "said' what if there is a lot of damage under the shingles? I couldn't argue that on- although there have been no leaks. So I canceled the Big Boy for a few months just to make sure we don't have big expense we weren't anticipating. It's killing me but I can't really run if much anyway until the new layout is in place. Oh well I can't argue this one with her, she is right and it's only a short time anyway. But I will have one soon. Tears, tears LOL


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Awwwww, that is too bad Doug. I hope after the roof and maybe some income tax return you are able to purchase your BigBoy. I will have pictures of mine up soon. The replacement will be here tomorrow. Hopefully UPS didn't drop it this time grrrrrrrrrr. I will also have my SD70MAC so I am looking forward to cradling them both in my arms haha. Keep us posted about yours though mister.

-Will 

p.s. - OMG Ray, Thomas and I saw the Triplex this weekend at the WGH show in Nashville and it is awesome! Thomas wants that as our next purchase. Hudson may have to wait lol


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Engineercub on 02/16/2009 8:09 AM
Awwwww, that is too bad Doug. I hope after the roof and maybe some income tax return you are able to purchase your BigBoy. I will have pictures of mine up soon. The replacement will be here tomorrow. Hopefully UPS didn't drop it this time grrrrrrrrrr. I will also have my SD70MAC so I am looking forward to cradling them both in my arms haha. Keep us posted about yours though mister.

-Will 

p.s. - OMG Ray, Thomas and I saw the Triplex this weekend at the WGH show in Nashville and it is awesome! Thomas wants that as our next purchase. Hudson may have to wait lol

Rest assured once the roof is stripped and the wood is in the condition I believe it to be I will order that day. Plus I have a bunch of musical instruments up for sale and all hobby sales go back to another hobby.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear about the delay Doug. Hope you can get it ordered ASAP.

Will, it is one COOL engine I will say that! The three level smoking whistle is just over the top too. Seeing how much interest it's generating I wonder how long they will be available. Hopefully they keep making successive production runs till demand tapers off before they stop production. I think their Challengers and Big Boys are now all sold out. 


Raymond


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Ok guys I finally got my BigBoy replacement and it is ok YAY!!! Only problem was when taking the screws out of the packaging one of them broke and had to be sawed in half to get the engine out. Not reviewing it really until I run it but I do want to address one thing. Anyone who wants to buy this engine might want to consider picking it up directly from Charles Ro as it has many detail parts and is extremely heavy making shipping very risky. This time UPS came through for me but things can happen.

-Will


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Gee, wonder what he does with the damaged ones he gets back? Hmmm.....


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One is sitting on Marty's bench... 

Greg


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Wasn't it about a year and a half ago somebody on MLS bought a damaged one from USA just to display..seems they got Raymonds first one??


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Well all i can say is mine runs and pulls great, heres some video from this past weekend...awsome







*


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Marty's into rehabs. So he says but in reality he buys them







Guess cause he has two so far. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I recieved my needed parts from USAT and 4014 is ready to hit the line. 
Nick, are you in any video? 
I just like things that are cheap and easy. To buy an engine that does not need anything is boring...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I like things cheap and easy too, bonus if they are blonde or redhead... oops!!! 

Nick, I counted about 53 cars on that first video including the caboose... good deal! 

What track did you use and what curve diameters on the 3 loops? 

Thanks, Greg


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi all,
Doug, sorry to hear about the delay of your BB and you are right, man…never argue with your wife







, looking forward to seeing your 4012. 
Will, your mandarin are so good







and glad to know that you had received your BB








Raymond, as you say, the MTH DCS seems to be a good digital control system, how about the protosound sound quality? Does it better than Phoenix 2K2? I am considering to running DCC and will install a decoder in the BB, I think NCE is a good choice. I just received a replacement part of the front piston by USAT and they said they nothing can do about the scratches of cab roof, a little disappointed.







I think I need to spend much time on this repair job.










Gary


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 02/18/2009 7:05 PM
I recieved my needed parts from USAT and 4014 is ready to hit the line. 
Nick, are you in any video? 
I just like things that are cheap and easy. To buy an engine that does not need anything is boring...




*Sorry guys, ive been off most of the week recovering from the show last weekend. really took a toll om me this time







Marty, no im not in any of the videos cause im the only one who brings cameras to the show so im always behind them, but there is a shot of me on one of my sd-70 mac videos on my youtube page...he he he also look real close at the flat cars im running with the bigboy, the wheel racks you made me worked out perfect.* *Thanks*


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02/18/2009 9:57 PM
I like things cheap and easy too, bonus if they are blonde or redhead... oops!!! 

Nick, I counted about 53 cars on that first video including the caboose... good deal! 

What track did you use and what curve diameters on the 3 loops? 

Thanks, Greg




*Greg, 58 cars in video, i had 16 more but could not fit them on track with out the thing going engine to caboose. he he he. On the outside loop witch is mine i run SS with clamps 20ft dia curves with a 4ft piece of straight track in the middle to give me 24ft curves. 2nd track is 20ft as well just brass track with stock joiners, 3rd track was 16.5 brass curves. all in all it was a great display and we had so many people stop and stay to watch trains it was un real, the set up chairs to sit and watch. i made the display this time 25 by 75 ft long so i had to build some extra stuff to pull off this show but it worked out great...







heres another video from ground level of bigboy. very coooooooooool !!! by the way the SSS project worked great and my reveiw will in the next day or 2 im waiting for video up load to youtube..*


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

You look at the number of people who have read this topic, it shows out the other train manufactures really goofed not doing a Big Boy. LOTS of interest in them.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Yup i agree,i think the next big hit will be the 1/29 allegany............SWEET







enough with those girlyman locos and bring on the the heavy iron ...


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Nicholas and others 
An allegany would be cool 
But how about a 1/29th Northern or Cabforward 
There was a rummer going around the big train show last year that USA would be coming out with these items in the near future 
Anybody heard anything 
Matt


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*I beleive your wish will be coming true...........







*


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 02/21/2009 10:05 AM
You look at the number of people who have read this topic, it shows out the other train manufactures really goofed not doing a Big Boy. LOTS of interest in them.


Jerry, I agree..







LSers want big articulated steam locomotives and what's interesting is that the Accucraft Big Boy's never drew this kind of attention...


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep I agree but I for one am denied of having one due to my 10ft diameter curves







I hate buing one and just using it for a shelf queen. At least I can run the Mallets and such. Later RJD


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This isn't meant as either criticism or praise but in terms of the size of this thread indicating the extent of the market for the Big Boy, the thread is mostly the same half dozen guys talking to each other. There may indeed be a huge market for really big LS models, I'm just suggesting that this thread does not necessarily prove it.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

14,180 hits to date - 6 active chatters and I would say that there is an interested population of people following along. 

Need more pics though...

gg


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Good point low note. I did not know that Accucraft did a Big Boy. I know Aster did, but the price was way out of most peoples grasp.


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## cabforward (Feb 18, 2008)

Four companies have made or make the big boy 
USA 1/29 
ACCUCRAFT 1/32 
ASTER 1/32 
MTH 1/32 
Matt


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep and all out of my price range. Which is good for me. Neither the money nor the track work to support it. Later RJD


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, You left two manufacturers out...

One is Fine Art Models built a 1/32 brass museum pice that sold for $15,000.00

Fine Art Models

The other is these guys...









Live Steam Big Boy


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I did notice at last weekend's train show in Palatine Il, that the Big Boys sat there looking pretty while a Mallet did the work


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 03/02/2009 8:06 AM
I did notice at last weekend's train show in Palatine Il, that the Big Boys sat there looking pretty while a Mallet did the work












*Leave it to the king of the one liners to come up with a statement like that, i think what he meant to say was, I did notice at last weekends train show in Palatine, that the Bigboys were lookin and runnin great and the guys with the mallets were doing a lot of work to keep there mallets running all day..........







*


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Huuuuuuuuuum I think it was maybe a toss up as to what was running and what was not. Personnel choice maybe. Later RJD


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

I know you guys want more pics, I will be putting mine up real soon I promise. I got the replacement now and will get them up asap. Working the road sucks for someone who needs some time off lol. 

-Will


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Gary To on 02/20/2009 7:30 AM
Hi all,
Doug, sorry to hear about the delay of your BB and you are right, man…never argue with your wife







, looking forward to seeing your 4012. 
Will, your mandarin are so good







and glad to know that you had received your BB








Raymond, as you say, the MTH DCS seems to be a good digital control system, how about the protosound sound quality? Does it better than Phoenix 2K2? I am considering to running DCC and will install a decoder in the BB, I think NCE is a good choice. I just received a replacement part of the front piston by USAT and they said they nothing can do about the scratches of cab roof, a little disappointed.







I think I need to spend much time on this repair job.










Gary




















Hey Gary,

Sorry for such a belated reply. I will just say that I've never heard a largescale engine that sounds as good as my MTH Big Boys. Sound quality is one of the big reasons why I went with DCS.


Raymond


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Ok guys I finally found some time to get you the pics I promised as I am now on vacation and preparing to head North for the ECLSTS. The first 4 pics are when I was initially opening the BigBoy. I will post again with the rest.

-Will


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Here are the rest on display on the kitchen table. I resized them for 600 pixels wide, they still seem fairly big though, hmmm. In any case, enjoy ^^

-Will





























































I will show more when I get more time, but this is enough to get you started.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for sharing your photos Will, it is one fine looking piece isn't it?  


Raymond


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi will,
Are you testing your engine? I think you must feel good..








Gary


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi all,
Just to share some repair work for replace the damaged intercooler pipes .
I spent much power to let the Big Boy up side down, after inspection, I start the repair job, I loosen the front wheels and front pilot by unscrew the screws, but I found it is difficult to disconnect the front light connector, so, I decided to return the engine in normal position and than it is easy to take out the pilot,I will resolidered the new intercooler pipes on the next step. I attached some pictures for the Job.
Gary


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Will 
I just can't believe your wife let you open it on the table. I usually open all my stuff in the garage. I would not want to scratch that nice table or get oil on the rug.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for posting your pictures Gary. Very helpful to anyone else needing to replace theirs. One of the posts on my aftercooler supports was broken like yours but I never replaced it. 

Also like the way the shot was posed with the other two engines in the background.  


Raymond


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Ni hao Gary!
Yes I have spent alot of time with my BigBoy so far. I love this engine. I can't really say that any other locomotive compares to this thing in any scale that I have worked with. It is so hard to do anything except look at it and admire it. I am still blown away by all the detail on this thing! When I was at the show (ECLSTS), there were many people lining up at Charles Ro's section to admire it. Many of them said they would love to have it but just can't afford it. I know it is a very expensive purchase, but it is much cheaper than many accucraft engines and it is worth every penny. I don't regret my purchase for a second. It certainly is an attention-getter as well. I have had people from CSX come over to my house after seeing it on my I-phone, mostly my Conductors. Many of them hate trains because of working for the railroad but they can't deny how gorgeous BigBoy is. Some of them are now developing a new appreciation for trains after seeing it. And warming up to trains is not something alot of railroaders are ever willing to do.

I personally think that after reading many posts on LSC saying negative things about BigBoy and the price that some people would actually love to have it, but since it is not in their budget, they turn against it out of spite. I can understand wanting it so bad as I had to save to get mine. People love USA Trains or hate them, but noone can deny the perfection of this locomotive. Parents, siblings, and friends have all stopped what they were doing to look at it when they have come over. It really makes me proud to have it. None of my other trains garner this kind of attention and that kind of speaks for itself. My 2 year old nephew is a hoot! I am creating a monster with this little guy lol. He LOVES trains and lives near the tracks of the Chattanooga Subdivion, one of my runs. Every time he hears a train, he asks my sister "Is it uncle B?" (my nicname). I am going to take him on a real train at some point when the opportunity presents itself. But every time I see my little nephew he asks "DID YOU BRING BIG BOY? excitedly. The first time he saw it he said, "OH IT IS A BIG CHOO CHOO!" and he has been constantly wanting to see it ever since lol.

Yes Ray it sure is a great piece ^^ and Marty, what wife? lmao

-Will

p.s. - I will post more pics when I get the chance, right now I am busy planning ground break for the "ConrailRessurectionProject" ;-)


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hear hear Will, very well put!









It's also good for the hobby as it generates a lot of excitement and brings a lot of attention to the scale. Also important are folks like Nick who are willing to go through the effort setup their own large displays at trainshows and tote this thing alot for everyone to see.







Largescale isn't just little toot-toot engines any more...










Raymond


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Any one who really wants a USAT BigBoy will find a way to buy it. 
The is no budget in this hobby. 
Its all in timing.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Well it's been awhile since any posts so I figured that I'd post some more information about the real 4000's.

 Here's a guy greasing and either that Big Boy is huge or he's rather short.









Some actual performance data from 1943...









Some more data..


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep they find a way to buy then they sell it. Right Marty. Later RJD


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I finally got around to DCS'ng my Big Boy..









Still need to upgrade the anemic smoke units with a MTH one and same with speakers...


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

As a result of a complaint this action is taken by Peter Bunce - moderator, 

AGAIN this is the second occurence of bad language being needlessly used, please 'stop it' or the topic in which it occurs, or yourself will be 'locked' 
offending words have been deleted from the posting.



Man, now you have a serious engine with an "attitude" .... 

Time to get rid of the smoke and put some ??? into the system. 

Love it... Can't beat DCS for "attitude"... 


Does USA locos as a whole have flywheels? 

gg


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Wow Chuck Great job! Great to see someone has actually done it and a great job at that! My friend Ken and I have talked all day about DCS upgrades and we discussed the BigBoy as he is getting one as well. Kudos my friend. 

-Will 

p.s. - Even though you did not spell the word correctly that is a very disappointing comment you left GG.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck, 

GREAT JOB!














Ok, I've been saying that I wasn't going to bother converting mine cause it's just for display but man I think you may have just given the nudge I needed to do mine.









It looks like it runs super smooth at slow speed. 

Great accomplishment Chuck! I think you probably have the first one ever operating under DCS control.










Raymond


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey GG,

The USA BBs do have flywheels, but the USA Hudson's don't. The USA 3 axle diesels do but the 2 axle ones do not.


Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks all for the compliments..









I was kind of hesitant about doing this DCS conversion but with Raymonds help it's turning out great!!

Oh oh, Raymond if you do yours then things just won't be the same as there's probably who knows how many more Big Boys out that want to be converted..


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

*Sweet sweet sweet, nice job. need to get the smoke in it before august 15th







*


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Sweet sweet sweet, nice job. need to get the smoke in it before august 15th 


I wouldn't be suprised to see a pair of these douleheaded on 8/15 polishing the rails!!


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)




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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 06/17/2009 5:24 PM










*Maybe a triple header?







Talk about your shake rattle and roll...







the challange has be issued... HE HE HE







*


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)




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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck,

That's some interesting data. I wonder why they operated the BB at 25 mph and less. Maybe they were trying to see worst case scenerios because HP on a steam locomotive is realized at about 25 mph and higher. The reason it sticks out is that's about the speeds the C&O ran their 2-6-6-6's in drag service. 

Good job on your DCS conversion, looks like you are having a lot of fun!

mark


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, That data is all eastbound uphill pulling 3,500 to 4,000 tons some 75 miles and at times they were picking up speed...








That's the division they were built for but they were designed for 3,600 tons, during the war they took 4,500 ton trains over the Wasatch Mts.
Not bad for a locomotive that only took one year to design & build.


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Chuck,
You done a great job







, I also watched some videos of DCS conversion for K-4 and Hudson that you posted on YouTube.







, The engines wonderful performance let me Crazy







, Chuck, does the MTH sell the Somke and sound system separately, If I want to upgrade to DCS for my steam engines by myself, what I need to order from MTH?
Your help are much appreciate.
Gary To


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck,

That makes more sense! I don't think there was much more design work since most of it was done for the Challenger. It is interesting to look back on the way the locomotives were operated versus how they might be operated in the current mode. 

Mark


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, I agree with you a 100% about the reading the old locomotive text's esp. the coal consumption records. Big Boys firebox was 8' x 11.5'.

Talking about the 2-6-6-6 Alleghany, I really wish that USA would come out with them!!


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

Does anybody know how they knew, to the pound, how much coal and water they had on board at each stop? Today, it would be easy (well, straightforward, anyway) with strain gauges and microprocessors, but 60 years ago?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Each bulk order or shipment of coal was measured and graded for size and quality. Part of that testing would be to weigh a specific volume of the coal. From that and knowing the volume capacity of the tender one could derive the weight of coal in the tender when full. Same as knowing the volume of water in the tender... fill it to the brim and you know the amount and the weight. Crews might get their pay docked if they overfilled the tender and thus wasted fuel. Records were kept as to how much fuel it took particular engines to pull certain trains over specific routes and if your run took too much you would have to give an accounting of why! 

During the depression, many families only got coal by the kids scavaging lumps from along the right of way. It was also common for the fireman to place larger lumps of coal near the gangway so that he could kick it off the train near a house where it was known that some poor person lived so that they could have heat in the winter. But they had to be very careful about doing it and not do too much. I have read many stories of crews doing this and sometimes getting in trouble for it. Sometimes the engineer was too much of a company man and would report it. The "best" excuse (and one that helped keep the engineer's in line) was that the lump was too big to put in the firebox and he didn't have time to break it up into smaller lumps because the engineer was not running the train right and all the fireman's time was required to keep shoveling. Also it was a safety thing to keep the deck clear, so kicking these large lumps overboard was a "good thing".


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## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

OK, thanks. I still think that six significant digits is at least three more than is justified, but that's just me.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

It is a good question. I don't know for sure but it would seem to me one way they could have accomplished fairly accurate readings would have been to have installed a temporary flow meter between the tender and the engine to measure how much water was fed to the engine during operation. The way to measure coal could have been similar and put a meter on the archimedes screw motor to count how many revolutions it ran. They would know on average what it would feed in pounds per a given number of revolutions either through their own testing or from the mfg specs.

Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Raymond, I read somewhere maybe in Thoroughbreds that during the NYC testing of the first Hudson that testing apperatus was fixed to the archimedes screw in the cab via access cover located in the floor beneath the firebox doors?. As far as water I'd sure think flowmeters were installed then again the tenders had water level gauges installed on the front in the gangway. 

I don't know about U.P. engineers getting docked for using to much water & coal as everything that I've ever read said that few enginemen cared to operate on low fuel, so many stops were made in preference rather than absolute need. 

Turnaround time on a Big Boy was two hours during rush season. Forty minutes to blow down the boiler, forty minutes to fill it up again with fresh water, and another forty minutes to steam and fire up! 

I wonder the capacity of the boiler is? 10,000 gallons?? So every trip would consume another 20,000 gallons for blow down & refill??


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I was finally able to do a little more work on the 4000 smoke unit!!

http://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/Chuck_USABB_MTHSmoke-017.MOVhttp://www.rayman4449.dynip.com/Chuck_USABB_MTHSmoke-019.MOV


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice! LOL you get me to chuckling too. Looks like you're getting really good velocity out of the stacks and the smoke thickness looks REALLY good, nice job!!! Next is completing the sound work I take it. >: )

Hey Gary, sorry I didn't say something sooner. You can get the DCS sound and control boards separately from MTH as well as the smoke units. The smoke units can be a little hard to come by at times. You can go to www.mth-railking.com and inquire about the Protosound 2 upgrade kits and the smoke units. 


Raymond


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 02 Jul 2009 06:44 PM 
Nice! LOL you get me to chuckling too. Looks like you're getting really good velocity out of the stacks and the smoke thickness looks REALLY good, nice job!!! Next is completing the sound work I take it. >: )

Hey Gary, sorry I didn't say something sooner. You can get the DCS sound and control boards separately from MTH as well as the smoke units. The smoke units can be a little hard to come by at times. You can go to http://www.mth-railking.com/ and inquire about the Protosound 2 upgrade kits and the smoke units. 


Raymond


Hi Raymond,
Thanks for the reply







, I saw a MTH Triplex at a local railroad hobby shop, very cool, my friend are interesting in it, I am constructing a 20 foot long Deck Girder Bridge that made of alinimum for my upcoming large scale train show in a shopping mall, will send you some photoes once I finished.

Have a nice weekend

Gary To


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## Paul A. Torrey (Jan 6, 2008)

Chuck,


Can you divulge your secrets in getting your BB to smoke like that. Even when I change mine to Max smoke, it comes out no where near as thick as yours. I'm considering taking the boiler shell off to see if there is any tape restricting the air flow to the smoke unit. I believe I had some tape on my Challenger and once removed it smoked great. Is that what you did?


Thanks,


Paul Torrey


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Gary,

(Hmmm, only just got the email notification of your reply.) 

Thank you, I'd really like to see it when it's done. >: )

I've been extremely happy with the Triplex. Runs very smooth, sounds great and is intriguing to watch run. Let me know if you guys end up getting one. 


Raymond


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

The MTH Big Boy smoke unit & 4" speaker install went smooth into my USA Big Boy..


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

LOL good gosh Chuck! Not only is that thing now Booming (I can tell based on how my recordings come out as to what that base sounds like on camera), but the smoke velocity and thickness is amazing! Great job!!!
























Raymond


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet...............







so the install went well, very nice indeed. that smoke, that speaker.... OOOOOOOOOO what a combo.. im in.


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Jeez Chuck, what a fine install! Thanks for sharing and demonstrating that it can be done. Great job mister! 

-Will


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## Idraw4u (Aug 19, 2008)

Every time I start to get discouraged or my interest starts to fade in this hobby a bit... I come across something like Chuck's video!
Totally AMAZING Chuck... You and Raymond are truly an inspiration to those of us yet to get a railroad up and running.

Thanks for posting!!

Todd


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## jlinde (Jan 2, 2008)

Boy, do I have to agree with Todd! I've been playing with airplanes an awful lot this summer (I've also been traveling a lot, and they're portable) and this video helped remind me why I love trains. Incredible and majestic . . .


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Well after quite a bit of time with BigBoy I am ready to review this engine, which is what this thread really is about lol. USA's BigBoy has EASILY become my favorite engine that I have ever owned. This guy is a monster in size, a locomotive that is sure to turn heads, runs smooth as silk, sounds good with it's included Phoenix Sound System, is just so realistic looking that you will spend hours going over it's numerous detail parts, and makes every other locomotive you own look like a dwarf by comparison. It demands respect with every chuff and everyone I have shown it to has given it just that. 

Bang for your buck: Many people have discreditted it due to it's high price tag. I paid $3,199.00 plus shipping and insurance which is not just recommended, but mandated. If I had it to do over again I definately would. This locomotive is a sight to behold and it will amaze even those who know nothing or care nothing about trains. Everything about this locomotive is quality and it is pretty easy to see that up close. This will be subjective from person to person I think. I think it is definately worth the money, others may disagree but upon the many eyes who have seen it and questioned it's price, noone has seemed to think the price was unreasonable in the least so I'd say it wins here. 

Fragility: This locomotive does have die-cast metal parts all over it as well as some plastic. I have not found them to be particularly fragile with handling it and running it but as anyone knows, any model train is breakable. 

Layout-friendly: As with the real BigBoy, this locomotive does require some layout constraints. To run it with ease and without worry I recommend 20' diameter curves minimum, though it will negotiate tighter curves such as 16.5 and I've even heard 14 (neither has been tested by me). If your space is pretty limited, which it seems to be with many Garden Railroaders oddly enough, this is not the locomotive for you. This model is as much of a space hog as it's prototype. 

Handling: BigBoy is a very heavy locomotive and that may be a consideration for you. I found it wise to get help moving it around, though once it is out of the packaging, I didn't have much trouble putting it on the track by myself. The tender is fairly heavy as well but I had no trouble at all handling it. The axles on the running gears and tender do have some lateral play to them so they are not difficult to move into place while railing it. I found the most difficult part to be removing it from the packaging. 

Operation: I didn't find BigBoy to be a big problem as far as derailments, however, you will want a solidly constructed layout for it. It is very heavy and faulty roadbed will not agree with it. If the grade raises and lowers too rapidly, BigBoy will have problems having so many axles spread over 57 inches. If you apply common sense to your layout considering how big and heavy this locomotive is, you shouldn't have any problems. 

All around: This locomotive has been a joy to run and you won't regret it's purchase if you have the means. This is a USA Trains "Prestige Series" piece which means that it is a locomotive that USA Trains put alot of work and craftmanship into and not one that everyone is going to have, period. If you can afford this locomotive, you will absolutely love it. I can honestly say that it is the best locomotive purchase I have ever made in any scale. USA Trains has done a superb job with it. 

-Will


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Just wanted to throw a few comments out now about this loco after having it for almost 2 years. This past weekend i pulled it back out of the box after almost a year and ran it at the show. I have to tell you this is one of the best performing locos out there HANDS DOWN







pulling 75 cars at 3 amps is impressive I MUST SAY...and if you have the cash and you have the room to run it you wont be sorry......... Thanks to USA trains for producing one of the finest largescale locomotive on the market.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I will second that

















Raymond


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

If I bought one which I really would like to have would become a shelve queen as I do not have the large Radi to run.







Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

NAAAAAAA..... just add some larger curves.....................


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

just run on the straight parts, point to point! 

Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

My BB attacked me the other day. I was dusting it off and it let me know its ready for a running season. dang snow/ice.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck,

Very impressive! That 4 inch speaker makes it sound real.

Don


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Don, Thanks much and now I'm contemplating installing a second 4" speaker to really get 'er loud.. it'd be a stereo Big Boy..









I'm really glad to see the mighty Big Boy thread bumped up Nick









Can't forget to mention that Big Boy's had a TV Show


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck, if you put a second 4" in there we're probably going to get kicked out the place... I say bring it on









Makes me think of the kid with the red shirt in this video at 2:24 from our display at the 2009 HAGRS show... Yeah I guess the display was loud hehehe 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cn4HLHBxOg


Raymond


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

WOW!! That sure is one great locomotive and you owners have every right to be proud of it


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Did any of you guys put a/the speaker in the boiler anywhere near the exhaust? 

It sure made a difference to me even on my puny 2-8-8-2 mallet. Having the sound come way far away from the cylinders sounded weird. 

Maybe a simple crossover and a tweeter up front would add to the realism? It sure helped me. 

Regards, Greg


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

They are awesome engines Casey. I assume you don't have one... do you plan to get one eventually? 

Raymond


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 24 May 2010 10:53 PM 
They are awesome engines Casey. I assume you don't have one... do you plan to get one eventually? 

Raymond 

As Ray has said ,they truely are awsome, and pull like ****. Heres a quick video from our club show a few months ago. Its a ride on shot.









And also Joe, Harry and Billy C. did a great job with the other largescale display. It was great to have 2 working largescale displays at a all guage show.


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## Casey Jones (Jan 13, 2010)

Raymond, I sure would like to get me one of those Big Boyz!! Think maybe you could put that MTH stuff in it for me so it smokes much and is loud?

Nicholas, That sure was a nice movie but that one train ran a red light!


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Nice video Nick!!


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes nice video Nick







Good job on the display


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)




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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By aceinspp on 18 Feb 2010 05:33 PM 
If I bought one which I really would like to have would become a shelve queen as I do not have the large Radi to run.







Later RJD Hi RJ,

I never expected to own a USA Big Boy both because of the price and also because my layout has some curves that are probably too sharp for it not to mention that the layout runs in places over 6' above the ground. A few weeks ago I ran across a used BB and my wife told me to get it or I would always regret not buying it. She was right.

Anticipating the BB's arrival I built a shelf along a wall that is about 13 1/2' long. I had planned to put 2 other locos on the shelf with the BB but those plans have changed.

I (thought I) wanted a decoder for the BB so I could get some sound with the BB sitting in place but the BB got here yesterday and after a lot of effort I finally got it up on the shelf track (5' above the floor). I did not get instructions with it but I downloaded them from USA and I discovered there is a delay switch that activates the Phoenix sound unit BEFORE the loco starts moving. There is also an automatic bell at start up along with the forward, reverse and stop whistles - plus magnet activated bell and whistle.

Now the Big Boy is going to keep all 13 1/2' of that shelf and it is a joy to fire it up, listen to the sounds and slowly move it back and forth listening to the sounds and watching the action of the wheels, rods etc. I was concerned about being able to recharge the sound system battery but the motor and lights can be turned off and the sound system left on recharging the battery. 
It is obvious that the original owner was telling the truth when he said he never ran the BB. Surprisingly there is not a speck of dust on it even though he had it on display. By the time the next owner gets it there will probably be a lot of evidence of it having been run - even if only 13 feet at a time. Thanks to USA's great packaging it arrived in perfect condition.


The BB is so large, heavy and bulky that I had a heck of a time just getting it up on that track. I doubt that I will ever want to try to take it down and run it on the layout even if I could widen the curves where I could run it. 

For me the Big Boy is no shelf queen. It is the Shelf KING! Some friends are coming over tomorrow just to see and hear the Big Boy. It is about a 40 mile drive for them. Someone asked about why such an interest in a loco that only 25 were made and the answer is simple - its a BIG BOY! 
I may not have 100+ cars to pull with it but for me all I really need is the UP Caboose behind the Big Boy. Everyone knows how big a caboose is and the caboose establishes the true relative size of a Big Boy.


I have no doubt that when they haul me away to a nursing home someday my last loco will probably be the USA Big Boy.

Jerry


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Way cool Jerry









Maybe bring it to HAGRS next year and run it on Raymonds Show Layout??


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Chuck,

I mean it when I say that it was so difficult to get the USA Big Boy out of its box and up onto the shelf track that I will probably never take it off the shelf to run it (here or anywhere).

On the other hand as much as you and Raymond (and I) like DCS I am sure that you will understand when I say that a side benefit of the USA Big Boy is that (in my mind) it has de-throned my MTH Big Boy and Challengers from "shelf kings" to "also rans" and thus to running models.

Unlike the USA Big Boy I am able to take the MTH locos off the shelf, put them into a carrier I made for them and take them to the layout where I would be much more willing to run them. I have not done it yet but it will not be difficult for me to make a drive on/off track for my carrier which would enable me to drive them onto the layout without having to lift them up.

I suspect that my real reason for not running the big MTH locos in the past had to do with wanting to keep them perfect. I could not run them on my inside layout because of their overhang and I was unwilling to risk them on the outside layout because of its height over the ground.

My main "problem" with running the big MTH locos has been the cost of MTH rolling stock. I have one MTH UP Passenger Car set and one MTH UP Caboose but while the locos look OK with my Bachmann coal hoppers they sacrifice the image their real relative size should show.

Perhaps next year (if you need an extra loco) I can bring an MTH Big Boy or Challenger. I'll be paying more attention to watching your USA Big Boy running.

For now at least I think I will be looking for opportunities to watch other's USA Big Boys running.

Jerry


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry 
Now I KNOW your a big sissy. 
the USAT BIGBOY gets its OWN parking track , that way you can run it. 
Its NOT a-girly-ma's loco. 
No no no.. 
I was really SHOCKED when Raymond bought one.
But then hes the one that convenced me that MTH was the wrong scale.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 25 Aug 2010 06:00 PM 
Jerry 
Now I KNOW your a big sissy. 
the USAT BIGBOY gets its OWN parking track , that way you can run it. 
Its NOT a-girly-ma's loco. 
No no no.. 

Correct, this loco was built to run not sit under glass [ Ray] Ajust your layout curves and have at it,You people only live once. Run what you have were ever you can. It also a Heathly loco as it builds up musles when lifting.
How do think i became Superman


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry. Glade you got the loco but as I mentioned I have no room even on a shelf to even un it back and forth. If I have a loco I want to be able to run it on my layout, unfortunately my curves will not handle a BB. BTW what sound system is in the loco? Later RJD


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By NTCGRR on 25 Aug 2010 06:00 PM 
Jerry 
Now I KNOW your a big sissy. 
the USAT BIGBOY gets its OWN parking track , that way you can run it. 
Its NOT a-girly-ma's loco. 
No no no.. 
I was really SHOCKED when Raymond bought one.
But then hes the one that convenced me that MTH was the wrong scale.


Hi Marty,

The next time I see you, you can bring your Big Boy to the motel, carry it up a couple of flights of stairs and put it up on a shelf at least 5' above the floor then take it down, back down the stairs and then we will see who the big sissy is.









Then if you do that three days in a row I might start thinking that maybe, just maybe, I should start carrying mine downstairs, outside, up the deck stairs and putting it on the layout.







While you are in a LOT better shape than I am I doubt you would want to haul your BB up and down a flight or two of stairs every time you wanted to run it.

On the other hand if instead of USA the box said LGB and if it was plastic instead of metal and if it would fit through the hole in my house I would probably just drive it in with the other trains ready to be driven out and run whenever the urge hit to run it.









The problem (for me) is that these metal locos (all of them) are not made for storage in a damp environment so whenever I want to run them it means taking them from their heated and cooled storage place to the outside layout only to have to reverse the routine when done running for the day.

My day to day running usually is with the Aristo diesels outside or the LGB steamers inside. I love the big USA Hudson and Big Boy but they can't be just left with the other locos. The Hudson I can carry but the Big Boy is TOO big for this Big Boy to carry.

Besides, this leaves me with even more to look forward to whenever I get to Nebraska City. It's all Bubba's fault. If it had not been for him FORCING me to run his ********* USA Hudson I would have been quite happy ignoring those of you with these metal beasts.

Cheers,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By aceinspp on 25 Aug 2010 06:46 PM 
Jerry. Glade you got the loco but as I mentioned I have no room even on a shelf to even un it back and forth. If I have a loco I want to be able to run it on my layout, unfortunately my curves will not handle a BB. BTW what sound system is in the loco? Later RJD 

Hi RJ,

I understand.

It has a fantastic sounding Phoenix sound system with two speakers. I think I read somewhere where Raymond said it is actually a recording of #4449 but it sounds great to me and it includes the double chuffing effect. I should add that, like the USA Hudson, the sound system is factory installed and even has a computer interface (presumably to change sounds etc.).

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Even if I could get the USA Big Boy to the outside layout there are some things that would make me think two or three times before I did so:



26 Jun 2008 07:23 AM
Quote Reply Alert 
I believe Marty has one and his is a more of a shelf queen due to that it won't stay on the the track even with concrete roadbed. 

-Brian


With this layout how many would run a USA Big Boy that "won't stay on the the track even with concrete roadbed" this high above the ground?










and...



26 Jun 2008 11:47 AM
Quote Reply Alert 
Nick 
Here is a quote from Marty from the Worlds Longest train Post 
Maybe he could chime in with more hints and info 
"to be honest, I have to baby the BB all the time. Its NOT made to go backwards and the smoker doesn't work now. My AC #6 are ok going slow to med speeds. I talked to Jens last night he ajusted the springs to push down harder on the tender lead truck and pilot truck. 
*Its a great loco but no fun to run. *
*Any little stick on the rail ,it will walk up on the rail instead of crushing it like I thought it would. its a 45 pd "baby" *
Matt


Did I forget to mention that the highest point of my layout sits directly under a HUGE Oak Tree that is a continuing source of leaves, twigs, acorns and even large branches?


















Not long ago something (I don't know what) caused my little LGB Starter Set to do this:










Since it was all LGB all I had to do was to pick up the pieces, slap them back together,wash them off with a garden hose, put them back on the track and go back to running them.

Somehow I think the consequences might have been slightly more drastic if it had been a USA Big Boy that derailed and fell.









Nope. I think my Big Boy will remain the Shelf King for some time to come.


















Jerry (aka the big sissy)

PS of course I realize that Marty has worked the bugs out of his Big Boy and that his attitude toward it has changed a lot since the above quotes but after all being called a big sissy does invite retaliation - doesn't it?







Then again, perhaps it does not help to un-sissify my image to have flowery wall paper as a background to the he-man Big Boy.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Woow 
people looking up my own quotes??? But its still true, the BB will work you and I have replaced all my home made switches for the BB and a number of other reasons. 
I don't won't folks to have trouble running trains on my layout. 
Jerry ,ya old sissy, love those flowers...


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have Wind issues. I am at the on the edge of a ridge that forms the western end of the New River Vally . I get wind from the New River Valley and To the New River Vally. All the riased portions of my track have sides. To keep them from falling off the road bed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, at least put rollers under it so you can run it for display! 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

That's cool Jerry that it came with a Phoenix sound installed. I guess I could do one on a shelve and put roller under it and run a static display. 

Yep marty has one heck of a time running his BB just think of all the battery juice that the BB consumes plus keeping the road bed level an what not. I guess he still owns it. Later RJD


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By NTCGRR on 26 Aug 2010 11:05 AM 
Woow 
people looking up my own quotes??? But its still true, the BB will work you and I have replaced all my home made switches for the BB and a number of other reasons. 
I don't won't folks to have trouble running trains on my layout. 
Jerry ,ya old sissy, love those flowers... 

Hi Marty,

Nope. Not looking for old quotes - just doing my homework. I hate reinventing the wheel so the first thing I did when I had agreed to buy the Big Boy was to start searching the forums looking for info about the USA Big Boy. This topic turned out to be the most informative and so far I have just worked my way through about 5 pages of it. Your quotes (actually quotes by others who were quoting you) happened to be on the pages I had just read.

Yep! I'm just a big sissy - oops my title has changed. Now I am an old sissy rather than a big sissy. I guess I am a big old sissy but if that means I will get to watch your Big Boy flex its muscles hauling an extra long load you can call me anything you like.







We Arkies can take a lot from Flatlanders since they have miles and miles and miles of nothing but flatlands (and windmills) to look at. After all it took a Big Boy to get over itty bitty Sherman Hill.









About those flowers... she who deigned to allow me to hang my Big Boy shelf in HER room gets to choose all the wall coverings and I just say "I love it" and hope I sound sincere.























Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Aug 2010 01:50 PM 
Jerry, at least put rollers under it so you can run it for display! 

Greg 

Hi Greg,

No need for rollers. The Big Boy has 13 1/2 feet to run back and forth on which is enough to enjoy the movement of the loco and caboose. Actually it is a LOT better than just rollers because with rollers all that happens is that the drivers rotate but nothing else happens. This way the sounds and the lights come on first and then EVERYTHING MOVES. 

The pumps are heard, then the bell and two toots of the whistle for forward and then the chuffing and most important - the loco, tender and caboose actually move. The 13 1/2 feet is long enough for the bell to stop and the track magnet to activate the crossing whistle.

For me personally the beauty of the Big Boy is best displayed at a very slow speed - up close and personal. As I sit at this computer I have to look up to see the Big Boy and when it moves the view is focused on the drivers, rods, lights etc. from below (the best view in my opinion).

USA even got the switch positions right because rather than being on the side or bottom where they could be hard to get to, they are on top where they can be easily reached from either side of the loco. 

The reality is that I think I will be completely happy with just keeping the Big Boy on the shelf BECAUSE I can run it back and forth on the shelf. The fact is that I pretty much knew what I was getting into with the USA Big Boy. I did not expect to be able to run it on my layout so in that respect I was not disappointed. My greatest joy was discovering that I did not need a decoder to activate the sounds without the loco moving. 
I don't think I could be happier than I am with it.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By aceinspp on 26 Aug 2010 04:12 PM 
That's cool Jerry that it came with a Phoenix sound installed. I guess I could do one on a shelve and put roller under it and run a static display. 

Yep marty has one heck of a time running his BB just think of all the battery juice that the BB consumes plus keeping the road bed level an what not. I guess he still owns it. Later RJD



Hi RJ,

Since the sound can be activated while the loco is standing still, I think a static display would be very impressive. Actually this loco is impressive even with no power to it (a USA Big Boy can't help but be impressive). . The guy I bought mine from had never run it at all - not even the sound system - and he was still very happy with it.

I love being able to move mine along the wall but the big action is watching the drivers rotate and that would be visible if the loco was on rollers. Someone (I don't remember who) makes a gadget that simply lifts the drivers slightly above the rails (out of contact with them). I have not seen it but that would be a way of getting the driver movement without putting any wear on the drivers themselves.

When I saw Marty's Big Boy hauling all those hoppers I just figured each hopper must be carrying one of the batteries to keep that power hog running.









A Big Boy running on batteries? What is the world coming to? Kids play with battery toys. Men's toys should dim the house lights when they are turned on.









Regards,

Jerry


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

As a buddy says................


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxafI...eature=related All that need to be said Really....... lets face it Track power rules.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, on the rollers, you can run through the gamut of sounds much better than trying to get a 45 pound loco to top speed in 13 feet! 

I'm quite familiar with the Phoenix sound systems. 

I can't understand your statement: Actually it is a LOT better than just rollers because with rollers all that happens is that the drivers rotate but nothing else happens. 

The only thing that could explain it really operating this way, is the sound system would be in the tender and the triggers are connected to the tender wheels ... is that so? I hope not. 

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Aug 2010 08:32 PM 
Jerry, on the rollers, you can run through the gamut of sounds much better than trying to get a 45 pound loco to top speed in 13 feet! 

I'm quite familiar with the Phoenix sound systems. 

I can't understand your statement: Actually it is a LOT better than just rollers because with rollers all that happens is that the drivers rotate but nothing else happens. 

The only thing that could explain it really operating this way, is the sound system would be in the tender and the triggers are connected to the tender wheels ... is that so? I hope not. 

Greg 

A single engine locomotive on rollers will look okay, but a dual (or more) engine like the BigBoy needs some way to keep the two seperate engines close to the same speed. Slow operation always looks better than flat out light speed but slow operation is often difficult to hold the speed uniform and I would fear that one engine might have more friction than the other and at low speeds tat engine might not be in motion while the other looks like it is slipping the drivers. Just wouldn't look "right".

BTW, if you are concerned about the expense of rollers you don't need them under the leading and trailing trucks. I have seen people mount their engines with rollers under the trucks and that is just added expense for no purpose. Put a short section of track at the proper level under the leading and trailing trucks to keep them at the proper level for looks and save the rollers for the wheels that need to actually rotate.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

One running and the other not would only happen at virtually the slowest speed the loco would run, above that they will both turn or the loco is defective. 

My Aristo Mallet is not near the quality level of the Big Boy and it looks fine on rollers. 

Bachmann makes non rolling rollers for leading, trailing and tenders, half the price of the ball bearing ones. Besides if you can afford a Big Boy, and you are concerned about the cost of rollers, something is out of whack! 

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Aug 2010 10:23 PM 
One running and the other not would only happen at virtually the slowest speed the loco would run, above that they will both turn or the loco is defective. 

My Aristo Mallet is not near the quality level of the Big Boy and it looks fine on rollers. 

Bachmann makes non rolling rollers for leading, trailing and tenders, half the price of the ball bearing ones. Besides if you can afford a Big Boy, and you are concerned about the cost of rollers, something is out of whack! 

Greg 

I beg to differ! Sometimes we will spend all available resources to get the one item we want and there is NOTHING left over for the accoutriments to go with it. I speak from experience in my getting my Aster Mike. It took EVERY spare cent (and a bit more) for 2 years to pay for it. I was not able to get track until long after I had the engine. Granted, over the long run, one can build the infrastructure to better present the ONE item of our pride, but just because you can buy a high dollar item does NOT mean money is no object.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Don't twist my words, did not say money is no object. I said exactly what I meant, you buy a $3500 loco there must be $50 for rollers. 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well you could go back and read all 20 some pages. I think folks have about said all they can about this loco. Later RJD


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Each of us has a different approach to this hobby based on our finances, preferences, operating environment etc. I am no exception to this.

My first priority is always determining what my net cost of ownership will be - especially when I venture into the realm of toy trains in excess of a few hundred dollars. If I had a layout where I could drive the Big Boy out from where it was parked along with a huge train and later park it without worrying about dampness and humidity destroying the Big Boy I would have bought one years ago and done without a LOT of other stuff so I could afford the Big Boy. Then I would have run the wheels off the Big Boy and never looked back. A friend does this and literally wears out his trains by running them as much as 8 hours a day every day all year long. 

I decided years ago that I would never be able to afford anything as expensive as the USA Big Boy instead buying a MTH one at a fraction of the cost (and not running it). When the opportunity came up to buy this (used) Big Boy the only way I could justify the expense was to assure that nothing drastic ever happens to it (such as a 6 foot fall from my layout) so that someday I will be able to resell it and recover most of what I paid for it. I look at the USA Hudson differently. I intend to run it A LOT. The fact that Bubba was willing to let me run his USA Hudson for hours at a time year after year convinced me that this is a loco that will handle my layout, pull as many cars as I am ever likely to put behind it, give me years of trouble free operation and hopefully be stable enough to stay on my tracks with a very minimal chance of derailing anywhere other than on the wide deck where the crossover switches are (and where it does derail). It is the only single loco I have that is capable of pulling the 11 car USA Los Angeles passenger car set - and it does so without popping the breaker on my MAG-15. Unfortunately, because it is a metal loco, I have to pick it up and take it into the house whenever I am not running it. 

The issue about using or not using rollers is strictly a personal one. Years ago I made a ridiculous offer on a LGB/Aster Mikado and got it. I soon found that its weak drive system would probably not hold up because of the weight of the metal vs the plastic body LGB used. That loco became a shelf queen by default so I made an acrylic display case for it and wired the track for MTS so I can at least run the sounds. Initially I bought a couple of sets of rollers to run it while on display but (for me) I decided I did not like the way it was going to look on rollers vs sitting on the tracks. I guess it reminded me of a Lionel lamp that my wife bought for me years ago. The Lionel lamp has a Hudson that, when a button is pressed, the drivers turn and the sound comes on - but the loco does not go anywhere. Somehow (for me) this just does not "work" and the lamp just sits there year after year. In no way would I discourage anyone else from buying a loco and putting it up on rollers. Properly done the rollers could be made almost invisible. I am not such a craftsman and I don't happen to have the desire to do it.

The LGB/Aster Mike is impressive and has commandeered our mantle for several years now. I have no regrets about buying it as it is something everyone who sees it appreciates. Still, a Mikado is a Mikado no matter how well it was made. It is NOT a Challenger and especially it is not a Big Boy!

For me the supreme locomotive of all time will always be the Union Pacific Big Boy. It is the first locomotive I look for at any railroad Museum. USA has done the Big Boy credit by building a magnificent model that is overwhelmingly impressive even when standing still with no power to it. 

For me (and all I am concerned about here is what is important to me) the USA Big Boy is most impressive as it moves those few feet back and forth on the shelf. To put it on rollers was an initial consideration I had but once I moved it that first time I realized that the shelf is absolutely perfect for what I want to do with it. I once chased Challenger 3985 for 75 miles but while that was a lot of fun the most impressive thing to me about the Challenger was when it was moving at a walking pace.

I really appreciate those of us like Marty and Raymond who put their USA and MTH Big Boys on the ground along with huge consists and demonstrate exactly what it was that made the Big Boy famous. Their flat lands make it possible for them. The 25% grade our house and my layout are on makes it impractical for me to even consider.

No doubt there are those who are thinking "What about the Allegheny?" For them I would hope that USA will someday make an Allegheny but for me there has never been any loco with the appeal of the UP Big Boy.

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Aug 2010 08:32 PM 
I can't understand your statement: Actually it is a LOT better than just rollers because with rollers all that happens is that the drivers rotate but nothing else happens. 

The only thing that could explain it really operating this way, is the sound system would be in the tender and the triggers are connected to the tender wheels ... is that so? I hope not. 

Greg 

Hi Greg,

All I meant was that when a loco is on rollers "nothing happens" in that the loco does not go anywhere. There is no movement forward or backward.

I don't know where the sound system is located (I think it is in the loco) but I am pretty sure that the triggers are on the drivers as the loco chuffs in sync (4 times per revolution) with the drivers.

I have nothing against rollers. I just discovered that for me I prefer the appearance of a loco that is physically (visibly) on the tracks. This is just my personal preference and has nothing to do with what is right or best for anyone else.

My comments are always intended to reflect nothing beyond what happens to appeal to me and are never intended to imply or suggest what anyone else should do.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By kerryadelfred on 27 Aug 2010 12:35 AM 


Hello,

I m Kerry Adelfred. Today I use this forum first. I learn very much from your forum. Please give me more guidance related to this topic only. I am very happy after using this forum.

Thank You.







Hello Kerry,

Welcome to MLS. I see this is your first post.

As RJ said there is a LOT of information about the USA Big Boy elsewhere in this topic but perhaps you are looking for some specific information. 

Is there something specific you are looking for? If so it is very likely that someone here can answer any questions you may have.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Aug 2010 11:16 PM 
Don't twist my words, did not say money is no object. I said exactly what I meant, you buy a $3500 loco there must be $50 for rollers. 

Greg 

What "twisting"? If all you have is $3500 then you cannot spend $3550. I have had to forego a purchase because of an additional $10 shipping! Even sales tax has killed a dream!







(geesh! Must be nice to not have to live on a budget!)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I got it, I got it. No, in fact I DO live on a budget, and I plan things, and don't run it to the bitter edge. (back to ya!) 

Again twisting something into something else. Being on a budget normally means you also have planned for contingencies. 

Boy, I can see this is a sore subject with you. Sorry you went 2 years without. Don't take it out on everyone else. 

Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Several people apparently have both the USA Big Boy and the USA Hudson. Perhaps they can answer a couple of questions for me.

1. The USA Big Boy has a great feature of a delayed start which keeps the loco from moving until a certain voltage is reached. This enables the lights and sound to come on before the loco starts moving. Apparently this is accomplished with a series of diodes in the motor circuit. I love this feature but it is not available on the USA Hudson. Is there a relatively easy way to add it to the Hudson? I understand taking a USA Hudson apart is a complicated matter and if this modification would involve a lot of complicated work I will pass on it but one never knows unless the question is asked. How hard would it be to add a motor delay circuit to a USA Hudson?

2. Both the USA Hudson and the USA Big Boy have Phoenix sound systems yet the Hudson sound system is MUCH louder than that of the Big Boy (both have the volume set to max). Have others found this with their USA locos? 
The sound actually is not as much an issue for me as the lights because as long as the battery is charged the sound will stay on long enough to go through the process of reversing the loco. On the other hand the lights don't come on until a certain track voltage is reached and I would like to see them come on before the Hudson moves. 


Thanks,

Jerry


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Jerry,

I would have to look to see what else (if anything) other than diodes make up that circuit, but it's not likely to be too complicated to make and would be glad to help you with it offline. In your case I would simply flip the motor switch to 'off' and cut the power to the motors (like I do with my USA BB) rather than add additional circuits.

The USA Hudson upper shell isn't really hard to take off at all, one screw in the bottom front and two (I think) in the rear. USA steamers are easier than most other mfg to disassemble. 

On the sound, this gets back to speaker size, the USA Hudson has a larger diam speaker compared to what's in the USA BB and why Chuck scrapped his and I'll be doing the same when I finally get mine converted. The smaller the speaker the less you're going to get quality and sound wise. It's possible the volume levels set electronically are to blame (you can adjust with the Phoenix CD and USB kit) but I think you're likely to find it's all on the speaker end in this case.


Raymond


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Hi Raymond,

I will get with you offline.

This is the Big Boy wiring according to Phoenix (it may not be comprehensive but it shows the diode circuit):










Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

*An auto-reverser for a Big Boy?*

I really like just running the USA Big Boy back and forth on its shelf track but one concern I have is that the power supply (Bridgewerks Magnum 60T) is bulky and awkward to hold on my lap which creates a slight possibility that I could accidentally drop it losing control. I can see how that could cause the Big Boy to run forward or backward into the wall, derail and fall 5 feet to the floor or onto a table etc. causing severe damage to the Big Boy.

One thought I had was to use a LGB Automatic Reversing Unit but the instructions say that the track between the stopped sections must be equal to the length of the loco and the Big Boy with its caboose is 6 feet long while the track is 13 1/2 feet long. This would indicate that the LGB reverser will not work as it would require at least 18 foot of track.

I seem to recall seeing other brands of automatic reversing circuits at train shows but since I had no need for them I did not pay any attention to them.

Does anyone happen to know of an auto-reverser that could work with the Big Boy in this situation that would be 100% dependable? 

99.9% dependable would not be good enough - which is why a remote (other than a LGB tethered remote) would not be acceptable - because it has been my experience that they might shut themselves off and/or not respond immediately to speed and reverse commands.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

*The Big Boy Tender's Reverse Light is Not Working*











I noticed that the reverse light on the tender is not lighting up (the headlight, cab lights and other lights on the loco do light up). From the above Phoenix diagram it would seem to have to be either not getting power from the loco - or the wiring or light bulb in the tender.

Rather than to take the Big Boy's Tender apart unnecessarily I would like to verify if the power is coming from the loco before I do anything with the tender.

Since I do not know which tender wires go to the light or what the other wires do I am hoping someone can inform me of which two wires to check as I don't want to accidentally damage anything by working with the wrong wires.

The above diagram suggests the two wires on the right from the loco but that does not assure the correctness of the diagram.

For that matter, if I end up having to take the tender apart are there any tricks to doing it?

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Jerry,
Your case also was happened on my BigBoy when I first run it, after checked all electronic circuit and wiring, I found the problem was came from the connection of the engine and tender not properly, (not easy to found by visual).
I attached a drawing for your information , hope can help.
Gary To


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, 100% reliable is unattainable from a practical perspective. 

If I had to do it, I might consider a bumper at each end that would have a switch that when contacted, interrupted the track power. 

This would still require periodic testing to make sure your fail-safe system is functioning... which could be as easy as pressing each switch by hand and seeing the track power is interrupted. 

You could also try making a bumper physically strong enough to resist the loco. A little tough. 

If you want an automated system 100% reliable, then the system needs to have redundancy. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Gary To on 01 Sep 2010 08:56 PM 
Hi Jerry,
Your case also was happened on my BigBoy when I first run it, after checked all electronic circuit and wiring, I found the problem was came from the connection of the engine and tender not properly, (not easy to found by visual).
I attached a drawing for your information , hope can help.
Gary To


Hi Gary,

It is good to hear from you again. I hope all is well with you and that your projects are going well.

Your information led to the solution of my problem. Actually the wires were not bent but I had the plug from the tender upside down (my eyes are not what they used to be).

Strangely the tender plug "fit" easier upside down than it did the right side up. After seeing your diagrams I realized my mistake and although it was hard to get the plug to fit right, once I did I not only discovered that the back up light worked but that there are also three marker lights I did not realize functioned and are now working.

It has made a HUGE improvement on the appearance of the loco when reversing.

Many thanks,

Jerry


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01 Sep 2010 09:33 PM 
Jerry, 100% reliable is unattainable from a practical perspective. 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

The LGB Automatic Reverser is pretty much 100% reliable in that it is based on diodes which allow the loco to move in one direction only. While diodes can fail I have never heard of one that allowed current to flow in the wrong direction. A blown diode would stop the Big Boy just as effectively as a working one would.

The LGB system works perfectly but probably best with 0-4-0's because they can move with a single pair of wheels making contact with the rails. It may be possible for the Big Boy to do the same but I don't know for certain and the limitation of the LGB circuit needing a train length between insulated sections is prohibitive in this instance.

I suspect an alternative solution may be possible using the other LGB method of a magnet attached to the bottom of the loco (it could alternatively be attached to the tender or even the caboose) which in turn activates a LGB track contact. This too should be 100% reliable. The problem with this is that it would require a circuit different from the LGB Automatic Reverser which may involve decoders or possibly the LGB Jumbo power supply. Basically what would be needed would be a switch activated slow down, stop, reverse, speed up circuit that would work at both ends of the track. 

I believe I could do everything with a few magnets, track contacts, LGB turnout motor with DPDT switch and a LGB Jumbo but I don't want to devote one of my Jumbos to just running the Big Boy - they are needed elsewhere and too expensive for just this project.

I have the LGB PC module so I will have to look into that as well.

One way or the other I am confident a solution is possible. At the moment I don't know what it is or if it will be worth the effort involved.

Redundancy is also possible (because this is a track powered circuit) in that a 2nd magnet and track contact could easily be connected to a relay that would cut all power if the magnet (loco, tender or caboose) reached it due to failure to stop first. The Big Boy would stop within a couple of inches if track power was cut by the relay.

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, you said 100%, not 99.99% ..... 

You stated this distinctly. 

"pretty much" is not the same as always.... 

I'd say "pretty much" is in the 99% or less category... 

99.99% means one in 10,000 times a failure, and you said 99.99% was unacceptable. 

My statement and prior post was to pull you back to the reality of not only what 100% means, but also what 99.99% means. 

Sounds like 1 in 10,000 would be fine... I'll bet the reliability of the LGB system is less than this. 

To get 100% reliability, you are going to need a second (redundant) system AND check that both are functioning on a regular basis. 

A second magnet does not make the entire system redundant, just part of it... that will not get your 100% or 99.99%. 

Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, you said 100%, not 99.99% ..... 

You stated this distinctly. 

"pretty much" is not the same as always.... 

I'd say "pretty much" is in the 99% or less category... 

99.99% means one in 10,000 times a failure, and you said 99.99% was unacceptable. 

My statement and prior post was to pull you back to the reality of not only what 100% means, but also what 99.99% means. 

Sounds like 1 in 10,000 would be fine... I'll bet the reliability of the LGB system is less than this. 

To get 100% reliability, you are going to need a second (redundant) system AND check that both are functioning on a regular basis. 

A second magnet does not make the entire system redundant, just part of it... that will not get your 100% or 99.99%. 

Greg


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## Jerrys RR (Jun 28, 2010)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 Sep 2010 01:43 PM 
Jerry, you said 100%, not 99.99% ..... 

You stated this distinctly. 

"pretty much" is not the same as always.... 

I'd say "pretty much" is in the 99% or less category... 

99.99% means one in 10,000 times a failure, and you said 99.99% was unacceptable. 

My statement and prior post was to pull you back to the reality of not only what 100% means, but also what 99.99% means. 

Sounds like 1 in 10,000 would be fine... I'll bet the reliability of the LGB system is less than this. 

To get 100% reliability, you are going to need a second (redundant) system AND check that both are functioning on a regular basis. 

A second magnet does not make the entire system redundant, just part of it... that will not get your 100% or 99.99%. 

Greg 

Hi Greg,

I said 100% but that was two days ago. Today I might settle for 99% and tomorrow perhaps 98%. The problem/benefit with getting older and losing my memory is that even I don't pay a lot of attention to what I said two days ago. Every day I wake up I do so with little regard for what I did or said yesterday or last week. That's perhaps the best part of being retired. Don't take what I may say as cast in stone as I may see things differently tomorrow.

You on the other hand are an engineer and not retired so it is natural for you to be more concerned about the accuracy of what you say. 
Today my attention/focus is on using the Momentum function of a Bridgewerks Magnum 60T with the Big Boy. It is a challenge to see how precisely I can stop the Big Boy with the variable momentum thrown in. Gary's help with the tender lights has changed my focus somewhat.


Regards,

Jerry


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerrys RR on 02 Sep 2010 07:20 AM 
Posted By Gary To on 01 Sep 2010 08:56 PM 
Hi Jerry,
Your case also was happened on my BigBoy when I first run it, after checked all electronic circuit and wiring, I found the problem was came from the connection of the engine and tender not properly, (not easy to found by visual).
I attached a drawing for your information , hope can help.
Gary To


Hi Gary,

It is good to hear from you again. I hope all is well with you and that your projects are going well.

Your information led to the solution of my problem. Actually the wires were not bent but I had the plug from the tender upside down (my eyes are not what they used to be).

Strangely the tender plug "fit" easier upside down than it did the right side up. After seeing your diagrams I realized my mistake and although it was hard to get the plug to fit right, once I did I not only discovered that the back up light worked but that there are also three marker lights I did not realize functioned and are now working.

It has made a HUGE improvement on the appearance of the loco when reversing.

Many thanks,

Jerry



I removed that outer covering on the plug as it was falling off anyways..sure made plugging it in easy









St. Aubins used to sell a Big Boy roller trestle for like $200.00,,I always wondered who was making it?


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 06 Feb 2009 11:52 AM 
Chuck,
No where in my post do I refer to the business practices of USA or their marketing strategy. Are you sure you read the post here in this thread?? 



It was merely an observation. After all, this is a review thread. I am frankly surprised to read about electrical problems, and then, when USA's service department tells the customer to send his 115# loco back for repair, that there is not some huge uproar. There have recently been major threads about that exact service from Aristo on a much smaller loco, but when there is an electrical problem with this loco, it is OK? That doesn't make sense to me. 



Stop trying to pick a fight with me. How do you know that in 12 months I won't be in the market for this or similar locomotive? Are only those who own this loco allowed to post? That'd be a new rule. Just 3 months ago, I did not think I would be buying a Mallet. Yet here I am, running a mallet in snowplow service outside. 


My contribution: Again, USA follows the influence of Lionel. Hudson, GG1, Big Boy and docksider. From the ones I have seen, it is a big, beautiful locomotive but be sure that you can lift 75 lbs from the ground. Maybe they should have included bolt on handles like on the GG1 for lifting and/or rerailing. 








Okay Mark, It's been 19 months since you posted this so where's your USA Trains Big Boy? "







"


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chuck,

I thought you didn't care. What took you so long to notice? 

I just put $3500 in to something usable that increases the value of my house, it is my new patio! 

At this point in my life, since you asked so nicely and without being a jerk, my train plans have once again changed. Perhaps you didn't notice, but I am planning to rebuild my entire railroad. Big boys, except MTH's, won't be able to run on the new line, either. Of course, that will be AFTER the new baby, due in 12 days. Again, $3500 for a stupid toy train or $3500 to start a college fund. Hmm.. That's easy. College is already $35k per year. Besides, I can always pick up a used or even NOS Big Boy in 20 years, for sure. I'll only be 53 then anyway, so there'll be at least another 40 years to play trains, if my grandparent's longevity is any guide. 

Thanks for remembering to dredge up something from almost 2 years ago, though. Really thoughtful and I am sure that everyone else cares. 

Mark


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

You guys need to get off it and move on, get a life instead of just attacking.


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## roushraven (Sep 15, 2010)

I read through all 22 pages; very informative. I have a couple of questions. 

1. Chuck/Raymond is the MTH Proto sound and smoke unit conversion that you guys did compatible with battery powered operation? 

2. Is there an on-line tutorial on how to install the 4" speakers, and those MTH upgrades (sound and smoke unit)? 

3. What's the minimum length of track required between "S" turn transitions from one direction to another? 

Sorry in advance for asking such "newb" questions. 

Here are some iPhone pictures of mine. The locomotive arrived with only one tiny piece broken off the bottom (not sure what it's called) but otherwise great condition and iit arrived in a repaired wooden box . The tender and its wooden box were in excellent conditon - not a single flaw. 

-RR


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

RR,

Yes Protosound 2 equiped engines can run under battery. If you want to run with the DCS remote or trigger the bell and whistle, you will need a TIU installed in a battery car and they have been installed in cars as small as Aristocraft heavyweights or 1:32 scale box cars. You can run the engine without the TIU on straight power fed from another battery control system, but you need the TIU and remote to trigger the bell and whistle. I have photos of the heavyweight conversion on my site. 

The DCS Tips page on my site has a link to the Protosound 2 upgrade manuals, see the "Diesel Upgrade Kit", but there are no online tutorials on specfically what we do to any given engine.

I would say most likely on an S turn, I would make the transition straight at least as long as the length of the rear driver set (measured at the wheels). If you intend to run a USA BB, then you should have the room to ensure you have enough length in the transition. An idea is to setup a temporary transition on your garage floor and test run what you are wanting to install and see how it handles it.

Glad your's came in great shape, you'll enjoy watching this engine run. Good luck.


Raymond


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## roushraven (Sep 15, 2010)

Posted By Rayman4449 on 28 Sep 2010 07:51 AM 
RR,

Yes Protosound 2 equiped engines can run under battery. If you want to run with the DCS remote or trigger the bell and whistle, you will need a TIU installed in a battery car and they have been installed in cars as small as Aristocraft heavyweights or 1:32 scale box cars. You can run the engine without the TIU on straight power fed from another battery control system, but you need the TIU and remote to trigger the bell and whistle. I have photos of the heavyweight conversion on my site. 

The DCS Tips page on my site has a link to the Protosound 2 upgrade manuals, see the "Diesel Upgrade Kit", but there are no online tutorials on specfically what we do to any given engine.

I would say most likely on an S turn, I would make the transition straight at least as long as the length of the rear driver set (measured at the wheels). If you intend to run a USA BB, then you should have the room to ensure you have enough length in the transition. An idea is to setup a temporary transition on your garage floor and test run what you are wanting to install and see how it handles it.

Glad your's came in great shape, you'll enjoy watching this engine run. Good luck.


Raymond




Thanks Raymond! I'll pick up the DCS remote and TIU and get back to you again. BTW, your website link is down.

-Arthur


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

Anytime, glad to help. I did just check the link and site and it's up, try one more time.

Just an FYI, MTH is about to release their new TIU(should be out by end of year) so you may want to consider holding off and get the new one as there will be a number of enhancements. However if you're just going to be running under battery it may not matter.

Good luck and keep me posted.


Raymond


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Rays link worked ok for me.............


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

And now this thread turns direction to a new and better operating system for the BigBoy.


After talking with Axle for some time on the phone tonight i have decided to convert my BigBoy to DCC as I FEEL IT HAS MUCH MORE TO OFFER THAN THAT HACK JOB OF A DCS system install, now that i have all the True facks about DCS

DCC is a no brainer fellas.

Axle and his wife are one of the nicest people in the hobby that i know of and he offered me some great advice and just a all aroung great DCC guy Like Greg and RJ ,Ron and others as im coming to find out.


Thank you all for understanding and i will try to come up to speed with this stuff QUICK as possable as im so looking forward to it.


And thank you again Axle for taking the time to explain some of it to me and how easy the installs really are, Im lookin forward to my next 3 day weekend.







Got any good Lobster places around you........he he he


Axles 1st USA Converted to DCC BigBoy.




You Rock Sir !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Wingnut (Jun 20, 2012)

Time to blow the dust off this thread. 

USA Trains has a new and improved batch of Big Boy's in stock now. Not sure what the improvements are but mine should be shipping any day now.


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## Chucks_Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Poor smoke output in that video as you know BOTH stacks should be smokin'..not just one








I hope USA T updated the new run of Big Boys as the first run is a disaster...poor suspension design, wiring is extremely poor..looks like a rats nest inside, driveline needs extensive re-working as why use all metal gears but resort to plastic driveshafts that keep falling apart? Cheap motors with bronze bushings instead of ball bearings...ugh 

The electrical pickup design where the brushes rub the drivers on the backside is a major PIA design flaw that USA T knows about but offers no support...when the brushes start wearing down they bridge the insulated section between the driver tires and the wheel centers creating a dead short. Brushes are too fat and/ or located in the wrong spot. The bare wires that come from the backside of the brushes is another engineering blunder as the brushes like to wiggle back & forth while the engine is in use..resulting in the wires rubbing against the metal frame creating shorts. My USA T Big Boy has been extensively re-worked in ALL areas including a complete re-design of the suspension, driveline and electrical pickups. 

Would I buy another one







NOPE









Yep, Put that USA T Big Boy right up there on the shelf next to the Hudson..both shelf queens









Do yourself a favor and buy 6 or 7 Aristo-Craft Mallets or 3 MTH Big Boys instead as you don't need a crane to put them on the track


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## Wingnut (Jun 20, 2012)

Chuck,

Wow! I've read about all that I can find on the web about the USA T Big Boy and never read about the issues you've had. Is this common for others also? Did you run your Big Boy for many hours before experiencing these problems?

The MTH units are long sold out and not many available in the used market.

Thanks for the information!


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I guess I have been lucky Mine is battery powered and it runs good....the ONLY issue I have ever had is it need 20' curves to run right other then that I haven't noticed an issue that would make me feel the way you do.

I would like to hear more about the suspension upgrades..it is a little picky and once it wheels get a little cockeyed, it takes a little to get it to behave cause of the weight. But to say it doesn't run good I can't say that.

I really don't think it had to be as heavy as it is.

Now my Hudson by USA it runs FLALESSLY and is my favorite engine, but it has occasional issues that pop up from time to time, but if checked before every season it isn't an issue....like the screws that hold the bottom gear plate on works free on occasion, but lock tight does the trick..

Bubba


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## Wingnut (Jun 20, 2012)

Thanks for the info Bubba.

Does anyone have any idea how many Big Boy's Ro (USA Trains) has produced across all road numbers? Probably a closely guarded number but just wondering if anyone has any idea.

Thanks!


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## Wingnut (Jun 20, 2012)

Something big and heavy has arrived...


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

Nice boxes. What's in 'em?


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## Wingnut (Jun 20, 2012)

A USA Trains Big Boy from the latest (2012) batch. I'll post some photos of the engine.

Thanks


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## wgn4884 (May 23, 2013)

It’s been a while since the USAT Big Boys first came out, and I’m interested in how people feel about them now. I had one on pre-order for about two years and got one of the first ones. I don’t keep run time logs, so I don’t know exactly, but mine has several hundred hours on it. I love it!! It saddens me that some buyers spent that much and had problems. 

A few small problems have occurred but nothing major. If anyone cares, I’ll post details on those, comments on track curve diameter, etc. 

Regards, Bill


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## josephunh (Mar 27, 2013)

Bill, 

As someone who is looking at getting one in the future I would like hear your comments as this thread is pretty old and like to hear how newer engines rate.


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## Hugh Napier (Oct 10, 2012)

Just to set a cat among the pigeons I saw this on the Accucraft (UK) website news page: 

http://www.accucraft.uk.com/content/uploads/China-2013-03-625x390.jpg 

Mmmmmm....... 

Hugh


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## Jerrys-RR (Jun 21, 2010)

I don't know how to tell which generation a Big Boy like mine is but I love it. The fact is that it probably only has an hour or two of running time as it just runs back & forth along a wall. The weight is too much for me to lug it up and down the stairs to put it on the layout but that's OK with me because I am happy that it is a shelf queen starting up and running to the end of the wall and then back again.

The Big Boy is my favorite locomotive and to have it at eye level where I can watch it slowly start to run seeing all the movements of its wheels etc. combined with the great Phoenix sound makes it all worthwhile to me.

Besides, I have no idea what I would do if I put it on the layout and somehow it fell and was damaged. 

Jerry 

PS I also have the MTH Big Boys (O & Gauge One) but the scale of the USA Big Boy overwhelms the others.


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## wgn4884 (May 23, 2013)

My engine is from the first run, so I can’t comment on the current ones. First, we can always nit-pick a product, so I might as well too. 

Mine arrived in good shape, but the sound didn’t work. When I finally got brave enough to take the shell off, it turned out to be wires not plugged in to the sound board. (At first, this thing was so big and heavy that taking the shell off intimidated me.) That turned out to be a blessing because later when I heard sounds like something needing oil, I knew those were in the sound system. Also, there is a hinged plate to cover the gap between the cab and tender. One screw was loose and the plate was hanging on by one hinge, but the screw was still in place. The cab comes off with the boiler top, and that gave access to put the screw in. Those were the only two negatives when mine came. 

The most significant problem has been that a cylinder end came partially out. The rod was still supported and no further damage was done. I put a dab of CA on the part and put it back end. If it had come completely out maybe something would have gotten bent. 

Continuing with the nits: the classification lights seem too bright compared to the headlight. The firebox light is really tiny and in no way captures the inferno that would have been going on in a real engine. The firebox doors are adjustable, and with them open the light should be much brighter. But with the tender in place, you can’t see much anyway. The ashpan glow is from different lights and is fine. 

The hinged plate I mentioned above does not swing up high enough to allow the pin on the tender to get to the hole in the drawbar. Sometime when the tender is off the track, I might look at shortening the pin a few thousandths. 

This post is getting long, so I’ll quit and cover more in different posts.


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## wgn4884 (May 23, 2013)

In my earlier post I listed things I could find fault with. Now for some things I love, and I do LOVE this engine. It runs very smoothly. As others have said, it’s awesome just to look at. The finish is very nice, and the details are impressive. When my friend came over, he spent 45 minutes with a magnifying glass just studying it. The tender couples close to the engine . I’m running on about 17’ 9” curves and the corner of the tender comes under the cab roof. The model comes with a lubricator driven by a horizontal link, and yes it moves when the engine runs. It is connected to the valve linkage of the front drivers. At first I thought USAT had neglected to include one on the rear drivers, but the rear one is different. USA got it right. Also, there are two small hooks on the right side of the tender - both the model and the tender at Scranton have them. To sum up, I love the details. 

My layout is in our basement and so curve size is constrained. Based on Ro saying the engine is designed for 16-foot curves, I built with Aristo 16.5 foot. The engine did OK on them and never derailed but several times a heard a clunk which I think was the pilot truck riding up then dropping back on the rail. I never saw it happen, but I think that’s what it was. Others have mentioned derailing as a problem, but the clunk is as close as mine came to leaving the rails. My track is on a plywood base about 12” above a concrete floor, so it is very level and stable. Maybe that’s why I have never had a problem. Since that time, a track has been added outside the original, about 17’ 9” curves, and I have never heard the clunk on this newer track. But I run the engine slow. I do NOT want to ever have the big jewel hit the concrete. Besides, I love the hear the drivers going in and out of sync. The Phoenix 2K2 that came installed is great. I enjoy watching all the rods and links at low speed more that at higher speed. 

I never run smoke, so I have no comments on the smoke units. 

I’ll have more to say in another post.


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## wgn4884 (May 23, 2013)

Well, josephunh, you asked for comments. I wish I could tell you about the current issue engines, but I know nothing about them. I’ll finish up with final comments. 

I love this engine. 

The engine weighs about 45 pounds, and much is in the frame. I’m sure USAT built it really heavy to avoid any flexing that might stress the cast metal boiler and crack it. The casting is not heavy and easy to remove. When it comes off, the Phoenix computer interface cable limits how far the cast part can be moved. I disconnected mine. When I turn the engine upside down to lube it, I take the casting off and set it aside so I don’t worry about damaging any details or scratching the finish. 

I love this engine. 

There are spring contacts at the front for the classification lights. When I put the casting back on, I am careful to set it straight down to avoid possibly damaging them. Care is needed in getting the handrail ends to go in the little holes. Other than that, removing and replacing the boiler is no big deal, even though the thought of doing it intimidated me at first. 

I love this engine. 

When the engine and tender have been oiled and greased, I put them on the track and plug the tender into the engine. Then I couple them with the drawbar. Finally, I replace the boiler and cab. 

The Phoenix web site has wiring diagrams which makes me think Phoenix was involved in working out the boards and circuitry. The Phoenix diagram shows one switch for lights, but mine has separate switches for the running lights and work lights. Also, my engine has a small circuit board that gets track power and outputs power to the sound card. I have no idea what this card does unless it is a regulator. It has two things that appear to be transistors and a bridge rectifier. The Phoenix diagrams do not show this board. These diagrams do not appear to have been updated since first drawn. 

According to our bathroom scale, the tender weighs 20 pounds. Others say it is 15 pounds. In any case it is heavier that any other engine I own.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think the hooks on the tender are hangers for portable rerailers. 

Greg


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## wgn4884 (May 23, 2013)

Greg, that sounds like a real possibility, but I don't think thats what the hooks were for. A rod came with the engine as a loose part. I'm guessing it's about 15 to 18 feet long with a T at one end and a round loop at the other. Not knowing much about steam engines, I asked about it when I sent Ro a note telling him how much I loved the engine. He wrote back that the rod is a detail part added at the end of the design phase but he didn't tell me what the it was for. He did say it goes in the hooks, so that's where mine is but i still don't know what the rod is for. My guess is it was used in cleaning out the ashes and clinkers or for banking the fire if they weren't going to dump it. So the hooks could have been used for rerailers, but if that were the case I would expect one hook on each side. The tender only has hooks on the right side.


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## aopagary (Jun 30, 2008)

Posted By Jerrys-RR on 24 May 2013 08:54 AM ...
PS I also have the MTH Big Boys (O & Gauge One) but the scale of the USA Big Boy overwhelms the others. 
...though unfortunately built to the wrong gauge.


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## wgn4884 (May 23, 2013)

aopagary says "...though unfortunately built to the wrong gauge." 

I agree. The track is to the wrong gauge. The engine is right. He He He!!


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## mickey (Jan 28, 2009)

In glancing over this very, very long thread, I marvel at this engine without ever even seeing one. At 45 pounds, is that the engine only or engine AND tender. I know it would not be correct scale, etc., but can you imagine how big, long and heavy it would be if produced at 1:20.3. I think of my Shay as heavy, but it is nothing compared to this monster. I'm afraid it would be too much work to get it outside to run often unless one had continuous track from a garage or something.


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## honeybooboo (Jan 10, 2014)

Well what a Great thread, Nick Savatgy has a way of starting threads that are the biggest and best informative online.
This has to be the biggest or one of the largest of interest on any large scale forum. so much for Shaddy.

Boo Boo


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Alter ego?


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Get a MTH Big Boy , no problems there and it smokes like crazy, plus you can carry it!


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