# Quadruplex Build Log



## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Found on the web...

THE BALDWIN QUADRAPLEX.
In 1915 Baldwin built three Triplex locomotives for the Erie Railroad, and another for the Virginian Railroad in 1916. Initial results were apparently promising, for Baldwin laid plans to build an even more monstrous loco- a Quadraplex, or four engines in one. George Henderson was the designer. Apparently the Santa Fe Railroad was seriously interested for a while. 
A machine of this length could not be built with a rigid boiler, so note the bellows connection in the middle. This notion was not specific to the Quadruplex- see Flexible Mallets for another example. In engineering terms, this sort of technique is called "Asking For Trouble". The bellows were found to be troublesome as the cinders would collect betwen the fins and cause binding. A later design used a ball joint connection.
Note that the designer recognised that forward vision wouldn't be too good if you had to squint along the length of such a boiler, so the loco was a cabforward. The driver was to communicate with the fireman at the back by means of a voicepipe.
The Baldwin Locomotive Company seriously intended to build this monster, but after it became clear that the Triplexes were failures there were (perhaps fortunately) no customers. 

The sketch below shows my design with two butane burners in each of two boilers with the smoke boxes in the center and four exhausts. The wood strips show the pivot points. The blue points are pivots, slides or for the tender mounts


32 wheels are quartered and ready to be shipped by Alan Redeker. These are the wheels that were replaced on his Flat cab project. the axle bearings are not Cab Forward ones but that is ok as I will be making new fram rails. The tenders are Alan's newest design








Dennis put my design on CAD and printed up enough copies to paste on my frame rails.








The rough cut is made on the Band saw. The board on the back is to push the piece and keep it square. the board on the front is clamped to the table and stops each cut at the same place. All of the pieces are cut, then the fence is moved 1/16" and they are done again. goes pretty fast and saves wear and tear on the mill








The finish cut is done on the mill with four rails bolted together and the DRO is used for the coordinate milling and drilling a hole for the spring pin








The pin is set in the hole here. Later it is epoxied in place and lightly rounded off with a file








Here is the axle set in the frame. you can see the centering pin inside the spring and the holes in the bearing for the spring to go into.









On the underside the wheels are held in witha 1/8" square bar which also strengthens the frame









The side rods are drilled in a jig made from the lower brass piece which has a pin pressed in which is the same size as the wheel drive pin. The mill is centered and set to zero and the digital calliper on the left side of the mill which has been modified to fit the mill is used to drill the holes.








Side bars are clamped and then drilled. Shaping is then done on the band saw









The finished sid bars. The joiner pins were made on the lathe. A tool was ground to make the .030 X .030 grove for the e clip








A pilot wheel truck from C-16 is mounted to the front and rear frames using a home made shoulder bolt









The four bogies are lined up and clearences are checked. They all roll freely and the length from end to end is 48" which is slightly less than a Cab Forward
The wood cylinders were to check clearences on turns but Henner thought if they were sealed they might work on steam.


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## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

Good god what a project! How cool! Thanks for the update. I would never even consider a project as complicated as this one. but I am sure glad that you are doing it. I had always wondered if there were actual plans for the quad.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow--that's really cool. I'm going to enjoy watching this!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Well if I ever have the coin to build that Soviet atomic locomotive "Big Joe" I drew up a few years ago, I know who to call now. ;-)


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

If you ever brought that engine to Diamondhead I would have to purchase a new scale for the drawbar pull - as the current scale tops out at somewhere less than 20 pounds.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill: Nice start. The spring rigging looks perfect. That will be a big help. You want all 32 drivers on the track.

Could I ask some tech specs? Bore and stroke, driver dia?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Bruce. How about bringing it to Sacramento next year? 

Bob 
1/2" bore, 1" stroke, 1.968" tread diameter, two 3" x 10.5" boilers, four butane burners, super heaters to each cylinder, Rulon piston design, two pressure ga, two sight glass, probably four pop off valves. Modified Baker gear with no outside reverser and cylinder valves. Ruby type reverse valve will be used with RC servos at each valve. 3/32" porting and ID piping on pressure side and 3/32" porting and 1/8" piping on exhaust. Hand pump with diverter valve in the tender and maybe an axle pump. Alos but a long shot - servo controlled cylinder drains.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

I'm really gonna pay close attention to this one. Between Dennis and you there is so much to learn. 

Steve


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

What is the minimum operating radius that this beast will have? 

Scott


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Scott 
Because all four bogies will be articulated, The radius will be less than you would expect. In fact, I gave the axles a little more side play so that even though the inside drivers have flanges, it still will roll on a 5' radius. I haven't tried it with the side bars yet but I think it will put too much bind on them on the 5" track. I tried the combination on my 7' radius track and also through the #5 switches yesterday and it worked fine so for now, i'm going with 7' radius. Naturally, it will have swing clearences that will need to be taken in to consideration but most layouts that size have good spacing between tracks 
Steve 
I am bringing the chassis to Ardenwood Saturday if you want to check it out. Henner wants to pull it around the track with something, probably a Forney 
Later, we will probably make a video of it on my dual gauge track being pulled by the Guinness


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope when this monstrosity is finished it can be brought down and run during next years SWGRS.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I checked the turn radius yesterday and it looks like it will be ok on a 5' radius. I also fooled around with some PTFE for the flexible joints. 








Here are two sections on the 5' track








You can see that all wheels are on the track. 









The link needs to pivot on both ends because the overhang on the front is more than the rear because of the cylinders.









As usual, Dennis came up with a way to easily flair PTFE (Teflon) tubing. A 1/4" round is drilled out to the inside diameter of the tube on the lathe.
The outside groves are then cut on the mill leaving the raised portion in the center which is rounded off with a file. A rod the size of the drilled hole is then locktited in and tapered slightly. The flair is made by chucking the tool in a lathe or drill and pushing the tubing in till you get the desired shaped flair.









Here is a setup that I actually made for the Fairlie. The male threaded piece will be soldered into the 1/8" pipe.The flaired fitting will provide a removable joint. I used 3/32" inside diameter PTFE from McMaster-Carr. It turned out to be .088 rather than .093 but that's ok. This gives me a compact flexible joint which should stand up th super heated steam. I found out that although silicone tubing is rated at close to the PTFE, it will break down after prolonged exposure to high temp and pressure.








Here is a permenant connector using a barbed fitting and a solid ring to hold it on. This is tricky to do because if the ring is too small, it wont fit on and if it is too big, it may slip off. The tolerance is only a couple of thousands. The tubing can be heated with a heat gun to permantly put a bend in it or to ease attaching to the barb but I found that it got too soft to be able to force it on so I just did it cold.








Cutting the barb needs to be done after the fitting is cut because the 1/8" hole is drilled on the other side. Before cutting the barbs, I turned this section down to 1/8". After this last cut, I go back to the firat cut and taper it another .005" which gives it a nice starting diameter


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Worked on the boilers this weekend and am ready to solder them up. Henner has a huge propane torch which works perfect fot these big boilers so we will do it over at his house Saturday. I will tyr to get some photos of the process.
















Squaring up the guide board Twisting the tube against the sanding disk to get it perfectly round
















Cutting the end plates on the band saw Plates are super glued to the arbor and each other and turned on the lathe









Here are the boiler parts with the bushings and mounts turned out of bearing grade bronze.The flexible joint is in the background and you can see the boiler mounts on the chassis to the right









Although the brass side bars look good, they are not too prototypical. I little tin plating solution which is used to plate circut boards does the trick.


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## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

Dang this is exciting! You need to work faster though. he he. Keep up the good work. I can't wait to see this beast and its next installment.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Went over to Henner's Saturday and soldered up the boilers 








Henner and Dennis doing the honors. Henner is holding the propane torch and Dennis the acetylene/air torch. The propane heats the unit fast and the acetylene supplies directed heat









The finished product is pressure tested and then cleaned up. A coat of low sheen engine paint is applied to the backhead









Sunday morning I start on the cab arm rest. I need it to be 1/16 thick but with a wider base to solder on to the cab so it is milled from a piece of 1/4 square stock










Now comes the part I have been putting off. I was able to get a cut off Cabforward cab front from Alan but the curved top is something I hadn't done before
I started by bending the 5" x 5" sheet to the proper radius and slid it back to the sloping point. Then with paper and masking tabe,Ii formed the bends and used the triangles which were formed to
mark and cut the top. I clamped the outside part on and then bent and snipped the pieces to fit









I silver soldered the parts together where they were close enough and soft soldered the rest to fill the small gaps from the cuts.
I then wrapped a 1/16 x 1/16 strip around the top for a rain gutter and soldered it on. I then 
applied a thin coat of Bondo and sanded back to the brass. The grille and bumper assembly I got from Alan 








Here is the 1/16 brass rod The brass piece is for the top clip. I made this way to give it more gluing(JB Weld)
area and to act as a window stop









Here are the front and back of the operating doors and windows








I didn't tak many photos of the cab construction. Here you can see the cab rear which is made from three pieces silver soldered together. This assembly was then soft soldered to the 
CF front I got from Alan. I had to soft solder to prevent the factory parts from coming off. The strips are K&S and the wide one on the windows was cut from sheet on the band saw.
The window channels were done on the mill. Window and door openings were done on the router with with a patern making bit and the rear openings were cut with a jerelers saw. The wider pieces are the side sun visors


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I was right, I'm really enjoying this!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

All I see are white boxes labeled "Image109" through "Image130".


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Semper

I see all of the pictures just fine.

Running...
MS/Win-7 64bit
MS/IE v9.0.8112.16412

If you are running MS/IE v9... are you using compatibility view?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 12 Sep 2011 02:50 PM 
Semper

I see all of the pictures just fine.

Running...
MS/Win-7 64bit
MS/IE v9.0.8112.16412

If you are running MS/IE v9... are you using compatibility view?


Same as you...


Win 7 64-bit
Version 9.0.8112.16421
Update Version 9.0.2 (KB2559049)
in Compatibility mode.


I can see the images from the earlier post, 
just not the latest batch.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I turned Compatibility mode off and when the screen refreshed I could no longer see the images from the earlier posts. I turned it back on and still cannot see the images from the earlier posts nor the latest one.

Stupyd Cornphewtors enyhow!


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

After posting my last comment, I can now see all the previous images, and about half of the present set.

What I can see sure looks neat. I can only see one image of the boilers (the painted backheads), but they look really professionally done.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Now the pictures do not show. The root cause is the accessibility of http://wegmuller.org/ 

It's not accessible right now... must be flakey. The ip address is 66.96.134.33 ... wegmuller.org is owned by David Wegmuller, who lives in PA, but the ISP is in New York, BIZLAND-SD, whoever that is, and it's a name registered through Arin (ugh)... 

I think it's just flaky... 

Greg


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

It may be that the server is a private machine and not commercial and is just being overwhelmed.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Sep 2011 03:17 PM 
Now the pictures do not show. The root cause is the accessibility of http://wegmuller.org/ 

It's not accessible right now... must be flakey. The ip address is 66.96.134.33 ... wegmuller.org is owned by David Wegmuller, who lives in PA, but the ISP is in New York, BIZLAND-SD, whoever that is, and it's a name registered through Arin (ugh)... 

I think it's just flaky... 

Greg Don't move David to PA, we need him here in the Bay Area! BTW, I can see all the pictures without problems.
Regards


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I just sent an email to David tp see if he knows what is going on. I know the site has had problems in the past. I don't know much about this but every time I go into this thread, everything shows up just fine. I do have problems posting. I have to enter the thread and then post the pictures in the edit mode. Maybe you went in while I was editing. Did you try going all the way out and then back in again? 
Does anyone know if there is a way to post photos directly from the hard drive to this site?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Henner 
Maybe PA means Palo Alto ???


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill

Depending on your local computer system configuration, once the images have been downloaded to your computer to your browser's local cache. your computer will load the images from your computer's cache and not request them from David's system. This will remain so until the temporary image files located in your local cache are deleted based upon your computer configuration, at which time they'll once again need to be downloaded from David's server.

In answer to your question on posting directly from your local computer.
[*] If you are meaning can your computer be the source for the requests placed across the Internet to download the image files upon demand. The answer is no, unless of course your computer is running server software and is set-up and configured to do so.

[*] If you are meaning can you upload your image files to the MLS server.
[*] The answer is no, but only because you are a Standard MLS member.
[*] The answer is yes, but first you will need to become a 1st Class member and then you will have your own personal web space allocated on the MLS server. Where you can upload and store your image files that you wish to include in your posted replies.
[/list][/list]


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

No pics here either. Used to be there, but are gone now. It's locked up trying to get into Dave's website 



UPDATE: Now I see them


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Fantastic! 

Alan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Pictures visible tonight. 

Greg 

p.s. ping times to the server were fine when no pictures were visible... the server was just not serving pictures...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Images came through for me tonight just fine, too.

Are you intending the boiler to be one contiguous container with a steam tight flexible joint in the middle? Will the flues be connected also in a steam tight manner, able to flex and vary in length inside the boiler shell?

Like you said in the first post, the bellows joint was a failure, but I understand that even the ball joint did not work because of the need to also make the flues flexible inside the boiler (including the fact that they have to stretch and compress while bending).

I am under the impression that the joint area was actually more like a smoke box and the boiler was in two seperate pieces. The rear half was like a normal boiler and was where steam was actually generated. The flues in the rear half exited into the joint area as though it was a smokebox. The front half (sealed at both ends as though the rear end of it were open to a firebox, but no fire was present as it was just open to the rear boiler's flues) was used only as a pre-heater, the gases passing through the flues of the front half not being hot enough to actually boil the water. This reduced the effective steam generation to that of a simple boiler and was part of the problem in running a multiple engine locomotive of such length.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Semper 
I am not sure but I was thinking the original design was to have the flexible joint a hollow air tight joint where the entire volume of hot gasses would be drawn through and into the front boilerflues by the front exhaust. I doubt if this desighwould have caried four engines. 
My design is to have two boilers with two butane burners in each facing each other at the smoke box end. The flexible joint will be more like two smoke box doors which are spring loaded to flex and telescope. 
I am travelling now but I will send some pictures when I arive home. If you look at the second to last picture prior to the boiler soldering thread you can see the joint attached to the two smoke boxes.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

AH HA... I see the two smokestacks in the middle now... hmmm... I see a third one at the front just behind the forward cab. ???

Oh well... yes a full second boiler will help a lot in running 4 seperate engines.

I still think those boilers look like jewelry! VERY nice work!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Boilers look great. They should do the job just fine. What operating pressure? Cab looks sweet


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Bob 
I am thinking of 60 psi 
Semper 
Right, two stacks in the middle and one behind the front cab plus one at the rear of the tender. Thanks for the compliment on the boilers


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Finished the basics of the cabs and boilers today








Starting to look like a train now








The rear cab is cut out on the band saw The corners are done on my home made break








I start on the rear bends and work tward the middle(front) Finally the rear bulkhead id clamped in place and drilled and screwed together









My jig for bending the wrep is made on the table saw. you can see the pencil mark on the piece on the left. I measure the width of the cut and then move the
2 x 4 fence so the leading and trailing cut are that distance apart. The blade is raised 1/8" at a time till i have the correct depth of cut









The finished piece on the left The wrap is annealed and then rolled to shape with a pipe









Two 1/8" square strips are silver soldered to the ends of the wrap They are then connected with 0 - 80 screws with thethreads tapped into one piece








The sand dome is made from four pieces silver soldered together Here the front exhaust will be fed through the front pipe. sand dome is complete and primed








Stacks were turned on the lathe. The flanges were contured on a Fire box is notched out for Cross head and reverser brackets

spindle sander with a 3" drum









The mock cylinders help to gauge clearences


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow. 

Steve


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I have some more shots to share 








Here I am cutting off the stanchion after the shoulder is sized for Here is the tool to form the part. A dremmel mounted in a vice with a cutoff tool 
an 0-80 thread forms the ball part.








Finished stanchions are threaded into the boiler wrap and secured Here is the finished rear cab
with JB weld for extra strength








The rear cab hinge These whistle parts are turned on the lathe and drilled on the mill
The screws are machined to make needle valves for sound adjustment








The whistles are nestled in the fire box area Lights are grain of wheat bulbs, green for the marker lights and white for the 
number boxes and headlight. Round number plate was turned from aluminum. 
Decals were made in Excel with black fill and white letters and printed
on decal paper


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill; 

Is that the locomotive's whistle I see in the lower left corner of your most recent post? WOW! That is going to be SOME whistle! 

Great modelling, 
David Meashey


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ditto! Those tubes are long enough to make something almost realistic! 

Greg


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes 
the longest one is 7"


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## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

Wow Bill, 
This is an amazing build to watch. I'm blown away by the speed at which you progress. I'm eagerly awaiting cylinders and valve gear to appear. Is there a reason you started with the boilers and cosmetically finished them too, before completing the chassis? Thanks so much for sharing your progress with us. *Fantastic work!*


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Randy 
I wanted to build the chassis and boilers with the cabs on them first so i could make sure the flexible boiler joint and the articulation points would work. I found I was able to improve on my original design that way. When the cylinders, valves and tubing is installed, there will be no room for changes. 

My friend Dennis Mead is working on several things for me at his house. He has a comercial type mill and lathe so doing things like the cylinders and valves will be done at his house. He has put our design on CAD and we will start on that next. I just finished the crosshead and reversing lever brakets this morning from his drawing and will do the valve heads today or tomorrow. He will do the valve bodys and if our mills are both accurate, they will go together next week. Dennis will take pictures of his work and I will post them here. 
The cylinders will be a different story. we are going to try rulon pistons. Henner found a design on a German website using PTFE and we will try it with Rulon. If that doesn't work, we will try brass pistons with Rulon rings and if all else fails, brass with o-rings. In the mean time, I will be working on cosmetic accessories like air compressors, generators, air tanks, tubing and valves etc. The boilers just lift off the chassis so this can all be done at any time as fill in work. By the way, they are not close to being cosmetically finished. 
Thanks


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Bill 
Fantastic build. I don't know how I missed this. I will be watching the rest of this. 
I see you rough cut the frame on the bandsaw,I take it you only have a small mill is the reason why. 

On the tool that you used for the stanchions, did you grind that yourself??? 
I've tried to grind one for flanges but it will not work without a lot of chatter and I have a big lathe. 
So I know it ridged enough. I'm sure it the way I ground it. 

Can not wait till you get to the cylinders. Are going to use a CNC or manually machine them??? 
I want to build some with 3/4" bore X 1" stroke. I've never attempted cylinders and vale work yet. 

Thanks 
Rodney


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Rodney 
Yes, the mill isn't even a mini mill it is a Harbor Frieght micro mill. 
On the Stanchion tool, I get the lathe tool stock from Enco and grind the taper on the bench grinder and the cut out for the ball is done with the cutoff wheel. I use a less agressive angle than the standard tool for the brass to keep it from grabbing and use feeler gauges to get ithe hieght about .001 to .002 below center. 
Don't have a CNC so it will be old school. All of the valving and porting will be via coordinate milling. I have my mill and lathe set up with digital read outs.


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Bill 
DRO's are a life saver. Got it on Brigeport and the mill drill. Also have a home made one on the lathe. 
I built a CNC mill with a HF mini mil back in 2006 and it has not made a chip yet. I have played around 
with some CAD programs but cant figure it out. 

Keep up the good work and the postings.This is such a monster project 
Diid you use anything between the wrapper and boiler?? 
When you do the cylinder and vales, please take lots of photos 

Rodney


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Rodney 
I used 1/8" fiberfrax. You can see it in the whistle photo at the top of the photo. My DRO is home made also. You can see it in the 9th photo down from the top in the drilling the side bars procedure.


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Bill that angled setup you did on the table saw to create a coved piece of stock is one cool trick. Where did you learn that? I am definitely adding that to my bag of tricks.

As usual you put everybody in the hobby to shame with your outrageous speed in this build. It took Henner, David and I five year to build four steam donkeys-- we should have had you on the team back then ;-)

Gorgeous work and a joy to watch it progress. Let me know if you need to bead blast anything.

Regards,


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Eric 
I learned that trick on "the New Yankee Workshop" There is also a good router one which is off the air but is run from time to time called The Router Workshop which shows lots of tricks with jigs on a router table


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Eric, 

Be really careful making cove cuts with a table saw! Years ago I cut sheave (pulley) grooves that way. No accidents but I shudder now. 

Steve


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

Great stuff Bill and lots of fun to watch. You have some good and interesting techniques. Thanks for sharing them.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

This is fascinating but I still cant help wondering if the boiler will be able to provide enough pressure to move all 4 sets of wheels. That was the main problem with the Erie Triplex ...Watching with anticipation.


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Steve, I have a special respect for table saws. Ten years ago when I was working at Jamie Hyneman's shop (the guy from Mythbusters) I amputated 1/4" off the tip of my left index finger. Still one of my favorite tools though. I have a big beefy one in my garage with a cast iron top and wings and a biesemeyer fence. I also have two different friends who have amputated multiple digits on table saws. As a result I am always careful. ;-)

Regards,


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I should have mentioned not to try this with the $100 Home Depot table saws. mine is a Delta Contractor Saw with a cast iron table. I have a few scars myself and have learned a few things over the years: 
1. Hold the work piece firmly and use push tools where possible. Kick-backs are usually a result of tenativly holding the piece and can cause the hand to slip into the blade or a missle coming at you at 100 MPH 
2. Use feather boards when ripping narrow pieces, 
3. All of my accidents came from cutting very small pieces of wood. I now have zero clearance throats and cross cut tables, I also use a the erasure end of a pencil to hold small pieces in place while cutting 
4. Unless I need a very smooth and square cut, I use the band saw (which also has a zero clearance throat) on smaller pieces . 
5. When cutting many pieces the same size be extra careful and alert. No day dreaming 

Well, that's it - surgery on two thumbs and one finger later, that is what I have learned


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Added a few goodies over the weekend 








Cab steps, side piping, air compressors and cross head brackets are added. Brackets are just set in place here








This jig is made by milling 3/32 wide by 1/16 deep on the female
and 1/16 wide and .010 deep on the male to center the 1/16 SS pins
The ridges on the female form are rounded with a file Here it is ready to form








After pressing Now, the pices are bent with needle nose plyers








Walking board step is bent and silver soldered. Screw on the bottom is Cab steps are ready for paint
cut off and filed flush








Air compressors are turned on the lathe Then milled to expose the connecting shaft








Finished product - one on both sides of engine  Generators are started - they will be fed steam through manifold shown


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

WOW! 

That is looking great. Is there a separate shaft inside the compressors? 

Greg


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Greg 
Yes, a SS 1/8" shaft. Also, here are the steam generators with a 1/16" shaft 








There will be a valve in the cab to control the steam which will shoot out the sides from each generator








This is the set up fpr the reversing valves. The DRO's are Harbor calipers with the jaws cut off








The grooves are .093 X .093 The finished piece next to the CAD drawing








Lapped and ready to go

Meanwhile over at Dennis' house...








A tool is made to form the lubricator end caps The cap is drilled








and tapped to 2-56. The feed tube comes out the cap on the left and the cap on the right is also the adjustment valve for the lube flow rate
The needle valve is made from a 2-56 SS allen head screw. the taper is formed with a file on the lathe








The assembled lubricators. Three of these will be positioned under the running boards with the filler going through the board and only the knurled cap protruding up
They will be disguised as air tanks. There will be a fourth one on the tender.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Amazing! This is great to watch Bill! 

Keith


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## Therios (Sep 28, 2008)

I just have to wonder how much time you spend on this thing. For me to accomplish this much this fast (as if I even could understand what the **** I was doing!!) I would have to work on it about 31 hours a day. And then have to have time for rework and scrap. 

Excellent job indeed! I am enjoying this build to no end. I am actually learning a bunch along the way as well. Guess I want a mill even worse!


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Bill 
What did you make the lubricators out of??? I think I will try to make 
one to get the hang of hard soldering. 

Thanks 
Rodney


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Rodney 
The lubricators are made from K&S brass tubing. It is the largest diameter they had at the hobby shop. I had a piece laying around the shop and it looked about right. Big enough for the volume of oil I need and small enough to fit under the running boards. Everything else was turned from brass bar stock by Dennis. The hard soldering (silver brazing) is really quite easy. You can get the silver solder at a welding supply place or McMaster. You need a good paste flux. I use Handy Flux. The best joints are formed with a couple of thousands gap between the pieces. you need some way to keep them in place during the operation. On bushings and end caps for the lubricator cut a ridge to fit in the hole and the shoulder keeps the part from falling through. If you do the soldering in dim light, wait till the parts start to get red before soldering. after a while you will know when to solder by the way the flux is melting. Hold the solder on an area that is hot but not near the torch tip. Then move the tip toward the solder and it will melt into the joint and flow towards the torch. You can then move the torch around the joint and the solder will follow it. Add more solder as you go around the joint as needed. You can get some citric acid from McMaster or I got mine online from a cooking supply place for half the cost. Use this to "pickle" the part afterwards. After 1/2 hour in the pickling solution, the black oxidation stains will wipe off easily. The part will have a pink color which comes off with a wire brush or wheel and the part will look tike the last photo above.


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Bill 
Sent you a PM 

Rodney


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Rodney
I checked my inbox. Nothing there


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Started on the tender this week and mounted the lubricators

There isn't room to bolt the strap on to the running board so it needed to be soldered on








It is then screwed to the wrap with 00-90 screws The rear exhaust is on the tender








Here are the parts bent into shap and fasened together with brackets ready for soldering








A piece of 1/16" brass tubing is ripped on the table saw leaving about 60% of the tube to form the beading









The beading is epoxied on and held on place with tape The finished product








Here are the parts for the water pump. The piece on the left is a diverter valve as I will be pumping to two boilers. Check valves use nitrle balls








The pump is installed. The silicone tubing at the top is wrapped with SS expansion spring. the rear lubricator is on the right










Underneath the tubing is set for routing, Left is lubricator, center is rear exhaust, right is boiler water feed








Here is where I am so far. There were a lot of challenges on the tender. The height of the drive wheels limits the depth of the tender tank.
The four burners will require a substantial fuel tank so you can see where the cutout in the front is made to accomidate the 2-1/2" dia tank.
The toolbox on the rear accomodates the water pump handle and the drop-frame design in the rear allows for extra room for batteries and electronics
as well as the lubricator and insulation from the exhaust tube. The original design was for a coal load but since i will be going with a SP design, I think I will convert to oil


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Crikey Bill that is one menacing beast!!! Simply fantastic looking. How is Dennis coming along on his end?

Regards,


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Another picture please! More of a side view? 

Just astounding so far. 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

What kind of band saw can cut 40% off a 1/6 brass tube?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Table Saw was what was mentioned I believe: 

"A piece of 1/16" brass tubing is ripped on the table saw leaving about 60% of the tube to form the beading" 

Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Ok, what kind of table saw cuts a 40% off a 1/16 inch tube? I suppose I could glue the tube to a piece of stock, and run the stock through the table saw, but then I'v got half a 1/16 tube glued to a piece of wood...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I would assume a slot in the bottom of a board, put the tube in the slot, then move the assembly over the saw with the blade up just high enough to cut a kerf in the tube, deep enough to cut through the wall of the tubing, but not any deeper... so you have cut a slot in a tube and you have beading. 

Regards, Greg


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I have a "Preac" Miniature table saw that could do that job quite nicely though it is still a tricky operation. 

http://www.preac.com/table_saw.htm


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Eric 
Dennis had a death in the family and is off to NY 
Guys 
On the tubing, the secret is a zero clearence blade throat. You cut out a throat out of MDF or whatever you have around and then lower the blade all the way down and insert the new throat plate. Then you turn on the saw raise the blade just enough to cut your work piece. On my saw, the fence does not contact the table at the bottom so I clamp a 1/8" X 1/2" strip of brass to it so the work piece won't slide under the fence. Now set the fence at 60% of the tube (.037 for the 1/16') and use a long piece of tubing, 2 - 3 feet. Hold your left hand a few inches from the blade to keep the piece against the fence and feed the piece with your right hand by holding it at least a foot from the blade. You can cut to within one foot of the blade and then stop the saw and remove the piece. You need to hold the piece firmly with your right hand otherwise the piece will want to rotate from the saw action and will be ruined. an alternative to holding it with your left hand is to cut a 1/16" X 1/16" notch out of the corner of a block of wood and hold it against the fence with a clamp. Your blade and fence must be perfectly in line for this to wotk and this is not an operation for the faint at heart. 
The saw is a Delta Contractor's table saw with a stock fence. you can see it in the photo of the whole engine above


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bill, 

Please tell me what saw blade you use for cutting the 1/16" tubing to make the beading. Your Delta table saw is probably a 10" or 12". Is it a special type of blade to cut such a narrow kerf? Thank you. 

Steve


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Greg, Steve 
Here are some photos I took this morning

Side View








Front side view








Here is my progress on the decorative piping. Most of the working piping will be behind this.








The ladder rails were cut out of .040 brass sheet on the band saw Silver soldered and attached
and then filed and sanded. The rungs are 1/16" rod








Marker lights are turned on the lathe Rear of tender with marker lights and coupler








here is my set up for ripping small pieces. The blade is a Harbor 10" - 80 tooth but they make a 50 tooth combination saw that seems to work better. 
The brass strip is clamped to the fence and is touching the table. The throat plate is one of many I have and was set up just for this operation. The second slot you see is used for a different operation and the plate is turned around








Here is a close up of the operation. You can see the slot has rounded off slightly. This is from the brass chips being pulled between the blade and the throat
I may have one more use of this and then the blade can be raised to expose a new surface.








Here is the back of the cut-off jig I use. I start with a square piece of MDF Using a framing square I screw a single aluminum strip 
I then set the two aluminum strips in the two table groves and shim them up to the board and then cut through it and the board. The wood block 
so they are above the table. Then a bead of super glue is laid on the top of the prevents lost digits
strips and the MDF is set on top of them and squared against the saw fence
The strips are then screwed in place for extra strength








The MDF will round off in the grove if you cut a lot of brass so I set this brass strip
in a grove I cut with the dado and epoxied it in place


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Steve Shyvers on 16 Oct 2011 10:54 AM 
Hi Bill, 

Please tell me what saw blade you use for cutting the 1/16" tubing to make the beading. Your Delta table saw is probably a 10" or 12". Is it a special type of blade to cut such a narrow kerf? Thank you. 

Steve 


I think I was thinking the same as you... that he is slitting the 1/16" tubing to make an upsidedown "U" shape, but from that one photo, I now believe that instead of using a VERY NARROW blade to slit the tubing, he is actually using the side of the saw teeth like a plane to remove a chord off the round tubing which results in a "C" shape.


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

"I think I was thinking the same as you... that he is slitting the 1/16" tubing to make an upsidedown "U" shape..." 

Yup. Took about 3 seconds after seeing the photo to realize my error. 

Thank you, Bill, for posting the photos. 

Steve


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## Rods UP 9000 (Jan 7, 2008)

Bill 
Your work is just fantastic and the way you figure out how to do a setups. 
Rodney


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

That's...........simply _amazing!!_ _







_


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
you are such a wizard with band and table saw! One of these days we have you bore cylinders just using these two tools







.
Regards


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Guys 
Thanks for the compliments 

DOES ANYONE KNOW A SOURCE FOR WATER SLIDE DECALS I CAN USE FOR THE CABS AND TENDER? Alan Redeker suggested Stan Cederleaf but it dosen't look like he is still doing this 

Henner 
That sounds like quite a challenge. Thanks


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope you are mistaken about Stan, did you try this link? 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/StanCedarleaf/WebPageDecals/CustomDecalsx.html 

Larry


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Larry 
I did get in touch with Stan 
I was told to look for him in the classified section and couldn't find him there but all is well now. 
He is sending me a proof sheet this morning


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

That thing is getting scary. Need a large track Im sure.

On the beading I also needed some to solder on a bunker I built. I ended up milling a slot so I still had the full round.
I had the same issue finding a suitable round. Half Round was easy to find but I wanted to have the full round look.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

WOW 
That worked out great and it looks better than mine. I assume you used a 1/32" end mill which would have been a bit loose for my .025 sheet metal but still workable. One thing nice about my technique is that depending on how much you take off the tube, you can get different widths on the slot which helps on the compound curves but the mill is more accurate and safer provided you have a nice vise like you do.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By redbeard on 18 Oct 2011 10:45 AM 
I hope you are mistaken about Stan, did you try this link? 

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/StanCedarleaf/WebPageDecals/CustomDecalsx.html 

Larry Yup..... We're still doin' decals.......... Not a commercial, just information


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Actualy I used .020" brass sheet for those bunkers. I figured the solder would fill right in and it did. I used a solder paste and added as necessary.. I ended up breaking just 1 endmill on about 2' of material. If I used bras it would of been easier as the copper is more gummy but bends easier. Was going to use a slitting saw on the mill but ended up not setting up the right angle head as I only had a short length.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Yes 
I have had problems with copper too. If you use brass in it's natural hardened state and then anneal it after the machining, it seems to work pretty well


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Well, I spent last week away from the work shop and started back making some small parts. 








The pivoting bracket for the reversing gear is quite complicated. First, on the mill, I drilled out the two holes shown as well as some 0-80
holes on the bottom of the bracket as it is shown here. The square stock at the bottom of the vise is used to put all of the clamping
pressure on the bottom which is not milled out.








After the milling process, the diagonal cut is made by cutting out the shape of the part at the proper angle on a piece of masonite to form the cutting jig








The ends are rounded off on the bench disk sander and it is bolted to the cross head bracket








I will need right angle fittings fo where the SS superheater tube goes in and comes out of the burner flues. A cone os turned on the part on the left.
This cone has a .125 inside diameter and will mate to a female seat drilled to .150. This will seal the fitting similar to the way a ferrule does in a standard fitting. 
Mounting holes are drilled on the mill using coordinates on the DRO








The female part is turned and then drilled using the sam e coordinates. Here is a neet trick Henner taught me. A strip of sheet stock is
placed on top of the round object to be drilled. You can see it is dropping on the left which means the drill is left of center








The table (drill) is moved till the sheet stock is level and a perfectly centered hole is then made.








Here is the finished fitting which will be silver soldered to the tubes. You can see that the flat surfaces do not touch and the contact is at the cone.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Got the Decals from Stan in the mail this morning and put them on. most of the plate work and paint is done 
Here are some shots. The rear cab is off a little as it was just set on the frame









It is hard to show the tubing but the brass one on the left is from the superheater. The "T" just before the bend connects the lube tank tube with a compression fitting
Just above the brass tube is a black curved tube. This goes to the front exhaust stack just behind the cab. 
A PTFE tube will connect to the superheated line on the threaded fitting at the end.
The exhaust will be conected with Silicone tubing
On the right are the tubes for the second engine with the superheated tube on top with the lube fitting 1-1/2" from the opening and the exhaust on the bottom








Here are some fittings on the rear boiler. The rectangular fitting in the center is threaded to accept an exhaust tube.
The superheated tube is coming out the bottom of the smoke box and runs along the bottom of the photo 








This is the steam "T" which makes for removable parts. You can see the hole drilled at 35 degrees on each side








Here is the assembly. The tubes shown up-side-down go to the steam domes
The throtle valves are on the left. The needles are not shown
The "T"s are shown below. The two parts below the "T" on the left will be silver soldered to the superheaters and will seal against the o-rings in the "T"


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

fantastic! Now we need to see it running...


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Beautiful. There must be at least 3-1/2 miles of boiler in that picture!!!! 

And of course the machining work is most impressive.... 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Alan and thanks for your help in the decal design.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill.... The locomotive looks wonderful. Great job on the decals...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

WOW! 

Greg


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

I spent a little time on the tender last week and Dennis finished up the cylinder and valve bodies. Once I got them I was able to start on the cylinder mounting, covers and drains 








I fancy pin is added to the coupler








Lenses are turned from a transparent acrylic rod








Here the red lenses are in place and lit









Over at Dennis' the blanks are laid out and the milling begins










The notches are used to index the cylinders for the milling and drilling procedures








You can see the sloped fitting to the right of the cylinder used to set the correct drilling angle








The manifolds are silver soldered after the drilling has been done. The flat in the middle accepts the reversing valve and is used for mounting to the frame









On the left are the cylinder valves which are silver soldered to the cylinders 









Back to my house for where the cylinder ends are finished and the final reaming is done








Here is the assembled valve body and cylinders. a George Washington came in handy for the gaskets and the cylinder covers are at the top and around the one cyl









Here is a drawing of the drain cocks I made for my Double Fairlie. I only had to make a few adjustments to the size. They are now .460 long vs .500








I start by threading a rod to 8-32 and then drill the through hole to .050 and the .150 hole is now .124 deep. Then the piece is parted off and on to the next








A 3/32 SS ball is silver soldered to a 3/32 brass rod and with a jewelers saw I put cross hatching. This is used to burnish the valve seat








Here the ball is in the seat. this would be looking down from inside the cylinder. A pin raises the ball to drain the cylinder








I made this tool to hold the valve during the machining process Now I drill a .070 hole for the pin head clearance and to allow the water to pass the cam lever








The 1/16 slot is cut with an end mill before the valve is taken out Here are the valves in the cylinder with the cam lever installed
The round adjustment nuts will be set with locktite during final assymbly








A top view shows how the "H" shapped bracket is kept parallel by the rectangular piece soldered to it which slides between the frame rails. The bent rod at the top goes to the servo.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Well, I have been busy with holliday decorating and cleaning up around the house. I have had some time to spend on the Quad but haven't had the time to post anything. 
It seems like I am missing some shots on the construction but here is what I have and I will post some more later this week or next

I put everything together for the Christmas party. It looks pretty good but underneath there is still a lot to do.

I made the side handles out of Mahogony and half-lapped and doweled the joints. The engine is 50" long and it will fit in my trunk diagonaly, thus the mitered corners








The dowels were cut from a piece of Ebony. Three 1/4" brass rods will keep everything in place. The front and rear ones go through the frame








The smoke boxes are fitted with Fiberfrax








And then lined with brass








The flexible boiler pieces are fitted with steps and hand rails and a layer of Fiberfrax









The working ends of the boiler are coming together. The pressure gauges came in last week and the burners and jets are ready to be tested and installed.








Here is a shot of turning the piston valves. Precision ground Stainless is used for this job








This shot shows the cad drawing by Dennis, close to the lathe so I don't make any mistakes









I am now installing the servos and wireing for the reversers and cylinder drains. I want ti have as little wire hanging around but still want everything to be on plugs so i can remove one bogie or ons servo without de-soldering anything


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

How do you intend to produce enough steam for this engine?


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill
All remarkable work, in particular the flexible unit and connects...can't recall but what is the radius for the engine? 


Dan, Bill
My question is what is the water capacity of the tender supplying water to each boiler in order to keep up steam?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Dan 
Hopefully the required steam will be produced by four butane poker burners similar to the two I have on my Garratt, so double the number of cylinders and double the burners. 
Plan B would be to go with larger burners or convert to radiant burners. 
Charles 
It is designed for a 7' radius. I pulled the chassis over my 7' track before I made the boilers and then the rough boiler/engine combo after the boilers were done and it seems to work ok. The biggest obsticle was the Cab Forward wheels which initially bound up at the side rods. I made small spacers to give them a little more give and that worked. Since then, I had to move the front drivers in a little to ensure clearence with the crossheads and haven't tried it out again. 

The Tender is proportional to the original Baldwin design and is going to be light on water capacity. The boilers will hold about 1000 ml of water each so I should be good for 20 - 30 minutes on that amount. Because of the small tender capacity, I don't have an axle pump and for extended runs, i will probably need to stop it every five minutes or so to fill the tender and hand pump the boilers up. They also designed a Quinteplex which had two tenders which could be something to consider. The second tender could be non powered and detachable


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

So, I had a little time this afternoon to take some pictures of the chassis wireing 
I now have four reverser servos and four cylinder drain servos mounted and wired together. 
The whistle servo is in the rear cab and the wiring will pass under the cab directly to the tender where all of the electrical power is. 
I want each engine and/or boiler to be removable without any soldering or cutting of wires and for all servos to be able to plug in to a socket for easy replacement. 
The servo position varies from engine to engine as I don't want them too close to the superheated steam lines or under the smoke boxes. 


Here is the front engine which is almost finished. Still need to make caps for the valves and a few other cosmetic items.
I have run it on air and it will pull it's own weight at 5 PSI and is almost impossiblle to hold back at 60 PSI.
Dennis and I have gone through several different designs to get this running the way I want it to be

Here is the cross head section.Ii designed a combination lever which is now inactive but can be changed to a working one with a slight change in the design.
The reverse is handled by a valve between the frames so there is no need for external reversing but it too can be easily converted if needed








Here is a side view of the cam lever actuated cylinder drains








A view of the bottom shows the cylinder drain linkage which is designed to clear the front pilot. 
The front servo is for reverse and is connected to the valve with .044 music wire
The rear servo is for the cyl drains
The pigtails at the back connect at plugs in the next engine

Here is s closeup of the cylinder drains.
The steam fitting is going to be close to the frame and a wrench is inhibited by the valve rod in the center of the frame








A few minutes on the grinder and one of my old 5/16' wrenches should clear just fine

A shot from the front shows how it should work. The two brackets on the left frame keep the cylinder drain lever true.








Dennis made four pop off's for me. two on each boiler, one set at 60 PSI and the other one set at 70 PSI








Here is a closeup of the sight glass a piece of 1/16" automotive striping tape is put on the back side and when it has water in it the 
Strip apears to be about double the width. This gives you the warer level at a glance and lets you know if ir is totaly full or totally empty.








On the frount engine you saw a clean wire job with only two pigtails in place.
I wasn't as lucky on the rear on where they all seemed to collect








A lot of patience and a little shrink wrap tubing made marrying the eight servos look somewhat professional.
I could have gone with less wire but I would have had to cut plugs and splice which would have been a problem down the road








Here is a shot of the rear three engines with the wireing secured and color coded

A close up of the main wire splice


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Bill,

I’ve enjoyed watching you create this masterpiece...

Thought I'd offer a tidbit with regard to servo wiring and eliminating the wire count. If it makes sense you can create a power buss to feed the servos 12V (the red is positive + and the black or brown is negative -, while the white and or orange is the signal wire which controls the servo movement). This would help eliminate some of the wires traveling to and from the servos and receiver. The Receiver’s female socket for each servo with regard to the 12V wires are all connected to a positive or negative power buss inside under the plastic casing (FWIW: you don’t even need to route the servo power through the receiver) accordingly you could bring one positive and negative wire forward and wye off to each servo as required. With the micro servos in play, the current carrying ability of the wires used are a moot consideration given the wire gauge utilized.

I have a lot of experience with giant scale radio control airplanes, these 40lb. monsters sometimes have 14-16 high powered digital servos in play, many sharing control signals and such. A lot was learned, some the hard way but today’s giant scale model airplanes properly rigged are incredibly reliable.

Looks like you're driving multiple servos from a single channel? Are all four reverse servos and drain servos sharing a single channel? 

Michael


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Beautiful job!!!! 

I look forward to seeing it in person this summer in Sacramento. 

Alan


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## Garry Paine (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael, Which servos are those? Most R/C servos I've seen are 5 volt; is there a line of 12 volt servos? Thanks, Garrett


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By Garry Paine on 04 Jan 2012 10:09 PM 
Michael, Which servos are those? Most R/C servos I've seen are 5 volt; is there a line of 12 volt servos? Thanks, Garrett


Garret,

Good catch...... Those are 4.8V servos which as you suggest are not 12V. Not sure what I was thinking when I typed 12V, go figure. 

Seiko makes some large servos that operate at 12V. 

Michael


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Michael 
I was thinking about doing it that way by using the positive and negative leads for both circuits and even asked a friend who thought it would work but wasn't sure. 
It turned out that there is enough room to run the three wire leads for both, so I decided not to risk screwing something up and having to re-solder everything, 
If I were going to make the servos permenent, your technique would save a ton of time and space. As I am still using the factory servo pigtails with female plugs from a factory loom, I would still need to do all of the soldering so I would have just saved some space. 

Thanks for the information. I am sure it will be useful on future projects, especially pypassing the receiver with the power leads 

You are correct. I will be using three channels 
1. Whistle circuit - one servo - not shown 
2. Reverse curcuit - four servos 
3. Cyl drain circuit - four servos


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Bill,

Have you tried to drive all four servos thus far with the single channel? In some circumstances we experienced early on a problem with some RX’s to adequately sink current to drive multiple servos ( as little as two if I recall in some cases. This is a control signal variable). We later determined there were variables in play with a specific OEM RX and another OEM’s servo. Never the less it would be prudent to try and drive all the aforementioned servos as anticipated as soon as possible.

FWIW: It's generally undesirable to drive multiple servos with a common control signal, simply because each servo and control linkage will have its own needs with regard to travel and end stops to prevent linkage binding. That said you obviously have the skills to build this consideration out of the picture, BUT even identical components still rely on the servo and its own integral idiosyncrasies to match up to Transmitter/RX settings in play. You could have fifty servos on the bench and be lucky to find three that all move the same travel volume in each direction and operate at the same neutral position (early on we actually had to cherry pick servos for this very reason. Later as things progressed there were ancillary devices afforded us that allowed us to match all servo travel aspects and later yet programmable servos and transmitters that alleviated these servo and linkage geometry short comings). 

It’s paramount to insure you’ve eliminated any and all control linkage binding of the servos or excessive current and will wreak havoc on those micro servos…. Best case is to use the full rotational travel volume of the servos; 120 degrees. It’s very easy to measure the current draw of each servo independently by simply utilizing a multi-meter and a pigtail you can adapt for same. Many are surprised what can be garnered herein…

Since I’m rambling on, there are transmitters that you can assign all of the available channels to be driven from a single channel, each with its own travel volume adjustments, speed, direction and more. This really is a unique feature for those that have such requirements.

Have fun,
Michael


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I seem to remember running across a device specifically for driving multiple servos from one receiver output. It is inserted inbetween the reciever and the multiple servos, sort of a "Y" device and I remember that they could be cascaded to split the output of one to two more and thus get 4 outputs from one receiver and 3 of these devices... I suppose each of those could be expanded too. I don't remember where the power came from to supply this device.


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I was so taken in and amazed by the pictures looking through this thread, my wife actually came over to ask me if I was all right! 

Simply AMAZING! 

Robert


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Biil,

It would take less time to build one than for me to drive across the whole country from SC. You could knock one out in no time. I could send a photo of the mechanism if you'd like.


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## Tom Burns (May 11, 2008)

Bill,

I understand this is an after the fact comment but could prove useful for further projects or if you want to clean up the wiring some on this project to make room for something else. I can confirm that using a common positive and ground for all servos works. To even further reduce wire clutter, I use the engine itself as a ground just like a car. At the servo, I solder the ground wire to a hex head servo mounting bold before installing in order to make a good solid connection. You obviously need to reverse twist the wire the number of turns it takes to screw the install the bolt. With this technique, you only have to work with one common positive wire (buss) and the control wire for each servo. For all the servos connected to the single channel, you can even use a common control wire for these servos. With the functionality defined, the installation could be reduced to as little as 4 conductors (3 control conductors, one positive conductor, with the locomotive used as the ground).

Due to the mechanical complexity, I fully understand why you are using servos for the functions defined. Since you have gone this far, I do not understand why you are not controling the throttles with servos especially since you have 2 throttles at each end of a very long locomotive. I expect that manually controling and ballancing these throttles will be a challenge given the logistics involved. Even if you want independent throttle control, this can easily be done on conventional RC by having one throttle on the left stick, and one throttle on the right stick and placing forward/reverse on channel 5 and the drain cocks on channel 6. With most modern RC, you could even have both throttles on one stick but independently ballance them using a mix function with another channel. Either way, I think this would be preferable than the accrobatics of trying to controling this beast with 2 throttles manually especially when an emergency stop is needed. I can only imagine you holding the tender (the only cold part) with 1 hand and not having sufficiant arm length to reach the 2nd throttle when an emergency stop is required (or having your face contact the boiler trying).

I additionally found it interesting that you did most of the detailing work first before you constructed the chassis mechanics. This showed a great deal of confidence that you could get the 4 chassis mechanics to work which seemed in this case to be one of the bigger challanges. The time frame in which you completed this project is unbelievable even with your outstanding machine shop. Either way, your work is absolutely outstanding and I have really enjoyed this post. 

Regards,

Tom Burns
RGS in Live Steam


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Michael 
Thanks for the tips 
I did test them all and that part works fine. On the reverser servos, I have a screw and lock nut adjustment which will give me any position I want. I will adjuat them all for the optimum forward position which leaves reverse within a few percent off ideal. since it is a slide valve, there is no resistance at either end. The cylinder drains are not very critical on the throw. They will be adjusted for the optimum position in the off (running) position 
Semper 
Those "Y"s are what I used but I cut and soldered them to eleminate the extra wire and for proper positioning. 
Tom 
Using the chassis for the ground is a great idea. On this project, I would have had to install ground wires between each chassis as I wouldn't trust the mechanical connectors to hold up over time in our dirty and oily envrionment. 
The speed and direction will be controlled by the reverse valve which is in series with the throtle and can shut steam off to the cylinders. My thought is to determine the optimal maximum opening and leave it there and use the reversers for everything else. my friend Henner has an engine he built where he pulls the steam directly from the steam dome and directly to one of these valves with no throtle at all. Plan B is to install two servos for the throttles which can be done later, I still have three channels left.


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## Tom Burns (May 11, 2008)

Bill,

Stupid me. Forgot that using piston valves with a reverse valve controler is a perfectly acceptable way of starting and stopping an engine with fixed throttle settings. This on the other hand is an easy way to slip an eccentric crank on a D valve locomotive (I accidently did this on my K-36).

FYI, I went to using the locomotive as a common ground initially to install prototypical lighting. I use the prototypical cable conduit pipe as a positive conductor and simply insulate using a small bit of heat shrink at each point it is supported by a stanchion. For marker lights and head lights, I solder 1 end to the prototypical cable conduit pipe and 1 wire to the engine (solder to a bolt head attached to the light bracket). Once I did this, I then realized the same could be done for the servos. As you indicated, you do need to connect grounds between separate components which in your case probably offset the benifits.

The only thing that did not work by using the locomotive as a ground is that it really messed up the WILD electronic water level detection system I installed. It took me a long time to figure out and cure the problem I had created. As I was initially using a single battery and common ground to power everything (RC, lights, and WILD), in the end I had to power the WILD with a separate battery and not use the common ground for this sytem and in order to get everything working properly.

I forgot to mention earlier that I particularly appreciated the design and fabrication detail on your servo actuated cylinder drain cocks. This is the cleanest design I have seen that appears to be relatively simple to fabricate. I hope to copy this some day when I get some time. I am sure you probably could sell a few if you wanted to produce a batch. I for one would be interested in a few sets.

Regards,

Tom Burns
RGS in Live Steam


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Tom 
Yes this setup won't work with D valves. Piston valves are harder to get right, but offer so much flexibility, it was the only way for me to go on the Quad. Accucraft and Aster use massive screw reverse adjusters. Can you imagine what a mess that would be on four engines? 

I did a similar electrical routing on my C-16. I ran a small insulated wire (26 ga. I think) inside a 1/16 OD tube (replacing the solid Accucraft rod) and used the tube for the ground and soldered it to wires at each end. 

I have seen postings on the water level system. I was thinking of using two on the Quad and put the LEDs in each front marker lights. but decided to wait a while on that. 

Thanks for the complement on the valves. I believe it is the only setup that will work with RC over an extended period of time as there are no friction points which can gum up. 
I have a similar set on my Double Fairlie which have been working fine with two servos on one channel. There is a slight seepage in the run position which actually adds to the charm of the run but I have come up with a more fool proof valve seat procedure which should make for zero leakage on the Quad. I would think that each set would have to be made for the particular engine it was going on, or the linkage would need to be done by the end user. The hardest part is making the valve and the cam lever, the rest is just time consuming which is what a hobby is all about. Right?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Almost getting ready to boil waterhttp://wegmuller.org/v-web/gallery/album89/Image029?full=1
Got the burners made and tested and the servos hooked up and timed as well as the four engines air tested and tuned

Here are the burner pieces laid out and assymbled








The SS tubes are soldered to the holders with a 50% silver content solder








The burners are bench tested and then a Nichrome screen is wrapped around to even out the flame. Didn't get a shot of it after the screen was added.








Assymbled. The jets are held in with the spring holders and the assymbly is held in by the allen head screws and holders at the top.The inside tubes are steam to the super heaters and the one on the left is from the superheater to the rear engine

*The tubing is FIRM silicone tubing from McMaster Carr. It will withstand double the pressure of the hobby shop tubing and comes in black. I have used this for the feed water, fuel and exhaust flexible connections*.









Where the tubing passes by the smoke box, I have wrapped it with Kite string








Then coated it with Fiberfrax glue
















Then painted with high temp paint








The fittings are for looks and to keep the string from unraveling. the paint will be touched up after final assymbly








Here are the PTFE steam fittings which go to the engines

The majority of the connections pass from the tender to the rear boiler. The tubes are bent to allow movement








I got these 1/2" gauges from Eric. The red tape on the sight glass acts like a thermometer to show the water level








Dennis made the valve guides and front caps this week to add the finishing touch to the engines.








A view of the bottom shows the servos and the cylinder drain hookups.








The top view shows the reverse servos and some of the steam hookups
Now all I have to do is put everything together.


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Looks fantastic! It looks like you are really getting close.... 

Best regards, 

Alan


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Thanks Alan 
I hope to beat the rain and run it this week


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Ran the Quad last week and as expected, there were some hitches.
Had a few leaks at the reverser valve as a result of the precision ground SS rod being bent and us not noticing it before making the valve pistons. The lapping procedure contoured the bore to the bent valve. We made some sleeves for the valve and new pistons and things seem to be better. 
The servo under the smoke box melted from the flash back when lighting the burners through the stack. It must have shot out the bottom hole. I installed insulated baffels under the holes so I should be good to go there also.
There was a slight bind on my inside radius track. I had designed it for 7' radius but found that the track was not bent in a perfect radius. After repositioning and re-bending the track, I was able to push the two trucks in question through the curve but the clearance was in the thousands so I made some grommets for the links which should correct the problem. Of coarse, it should be no problem on track of 8' radius or bigger








The grommet on the right is just cut from a piece og silicone tubing (firm)








Someone asked about connecting the silicone tubing. I use the same nut as on the flared fitting (1/4" - 28) and a slice of 5/32" tubing is soldered to the 1/8" tube 
When the solicone tube is slipped ovet the 5/32" piece, the nut can be threaded on to the part which is over the 1/8" tube but will not go ovet the hump made by the 5/32" piece








I thought the boiler looked a little too streemlined so I added these cleanout hatches to the flexible joint








And these decorative valves


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Fantastic! 

Alan


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Extra fantastic! (just an excuse because I hit the submit button twice)
  
Alan


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Thats just awesome.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I will second those sentiments! I have kept up with this thread from the beginning and your project is truly awesome!


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This has been really enjoyable to watch--thank you for posting it. I'm really looking forward to seeing a video of this beast in motion


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Well, I have run the Quad a couple of times and had a problem with the RC. Everything worked fine for 15 or 20 minutes and then the servos started acting up. The two furthest from the power supply were causing the problem.
When I got it back on the bench for testing, everything worked. I took the whole setup over to Henners and we checked it out on the oscilloscope and all checked out. Our thought was that maybe the servos were drawing too much power from the receiver and causing a poor signal. We decided to add a second battery pack for just the receiver and run the other pack only to the power feeds of the servos. I did these changes but it left no wiggle room in the battery compartment. I bought some Lithium batteries which are more resistant to high temperatures but still only recomended for 140 degrees or less. the rear exhaust runs through the battery compartment so that may have been the cuplprit. I insulated it but it may still cause overheating after a long run.
So i came up with the idea of adding a second tender which could be used for four D batteries and some extra water
I am not sure if it is necessare or if it adds to the look
Here is a photoshop of what I am thinking, What do you think?


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Stunning!

I have seen prototype engines with double tenders, so no problems with adding it.

BUT!

Is there a "Quintraplex" in the future!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

A friend just sent me a photo of the Challenger with a second tender 
No Quint... 
Actually, I am now drawing up plans for a CP Huntington in 1:29 scale. It is the first engine owned by SP and is SP #1. It should be in 1:32 but it would be too small at that scale. Aster did the American in 1:28 probably for that reason and this one is smaller. It is a 4-2-4 Forney type and it will be just over 12" long. The boiler has to fit between the drive wheels so the outside of the lagging needs to be less than 1.5" so the inside diameter of the boiler tube will be 1" (1.25 may be able to work with some machining) and the cab is too small to support a conventional T boiler so I am working on designing a box type T boiler. Because of the design, a tender is out of the question and the bunker is too small to carry any water so an axle pump won't do anything. I would like to get 1/2 hour of run time out of it. 
I was thinking of posting a new thread to see if anyone had done this yet.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill,
many preserved engines in Europe use double tenders on mainline runs, as most of the water towers have been removed.

http://www.bahnbilder.de/1024/18-20...554005.jpg 

Regards


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Sometimes in order to get the boiler to fit between the drivers on smaller G1 locos with low-pitched boilers "dents" are formed in the sides of the boiler behind the tops of the drivers, and the lagging in those locations is cut away completely. Easier to get away with on a British outline loco where there were full "splashers" over the tops of the driving wheels. Does the CP Huntington have a wagon-top boiler or straight? If wagon top there might be a way to incorporate an oval cross section to gain some water capacity. 

Steve


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I think it looks cool with two tenders. Second tender probably ought to just be a water tank though--how would the coal be getting up to the first smokebox?


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Lownote 
Right 
The second tender will be a flat top. For the photo, I just copied and pasted the front one to get an idea of he look. I am thinking the top of the rear tender will be level with the back of the front tender with the white stripe at equal height. Two three axle trucks 

Steve 
It does have a Wagontop but it only raises 0.470" and goes back for 1.3" so it would add less than 1.5 ML. Not hardly worth the effort. Thanks on the tip about getting around the wheels. 
A 1-1/4 pipe is 1.375 on the outside. I can probably crush it somewhat where the drivers are and work the lagging in somehow. It does have fenders which will hide my butchering. I'll start another thread on this site after I have the bioler sketched out with some photos


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## Alan in Adirondacks (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 

Looks really impressive. And I think a second water tender is not only a good solution to the battery problem but adds to the overall appearance. 

Great job! 

Alan


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like you are coming to an end. Very Impressive. 

On the servos, Servo City.com sells a part that you would plug your servos into then to the receiver. Its a booster/trim pack. Designed for long servo leads on large planes and such. From what I have read when I was putting the servos in a Garret its not the voltave but the servo signal lead that is the problem and causes irratic control of the servo. 

http://servocity.com/html/boosted_servo_extensions.html


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jason 
Those look good and the explanation seems to make sense. 
After checking everything out over at Henners, we came up with the idea that the four servos on one circut are drawing too much amperage and causing the reveiver to give a faulty signal when the voltage drops. That seems to be verified by the Servo City description. By adding a second battery pack to supply power directly to the servos, we think the receiver which draws very little current will always have the voltage needed. 
It rained the other day here and it is muddy out back but I plan on testing it this week. If it still acts up, I will add the bosters. I may just add them anyway.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Bill. 

The problem more likley than not is what I eluded to in a previous post herein, driving multiple servos from a single channel or signal source can be problematic with some Recievers. 

FWIW: This problem is NOT associated with the abiltiy of the servo(s) to source power from the battery. It is a function of the control signal not being able to sink adequate current to drive four servos in your case. There also is some consideration for electrical losses, multiple connectors inherently increase system resistance. That said an amplified or boosted extension or wye is one solution and will solve the problem in my experience. In short adding a second battery will not eliminate the problem your describing. But I like the look of an AUX tender! 

I have a circuit diagram for an easy amplifier somewhere on this computer, I haven't seen it for years now, if I recall for less than a couple bucks you can build a amplified/boosted qizmo that does the job. 

Michael


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael, 

we checked the pulse signal with an oscilloscope and did not see any deterioration from 1 to 4 servos. However the supply voltage spiked and broke visibly down. This is why we decided to add a second battery.

Regards


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Henner, 

All right then if you’re sure the control signal has not decayed and can provide adequate current, perhaps electrical losses via the herd of connectors associated with the grouping of servos is a contributing factor. That or the power source as you describe is incapable of providing the appropriate power required, do you know what size battery and technology is in play? 

Did adding an additional battery solve the problem? 

Have you guys looked at the current draw for each servo and or cumulatively? 

Some of these things are obvious considerations, of which you may have already addressed. Hopefully those with less experience or knowledge will garner some useful info... 

Michael


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael,
in addition to the separate battery all power is now routed through a bus, avoiding the receiver pins altogether. I don't want to hijack Bill's thread; I am sure he will report the results of this modification together with details.
Regards


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Henner 
Feel free to hijack all you want and yes, I will report out after I run it on Thurs.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Michael 
The barreries are now Lithium - four AA's supplying the servo red and black wires directly and four AAA's serving the receiver. Only the signal wires (white) are connected from the receiver to the servos.


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Jason and gang 
I ran it today and after about 20 minutes, the servos started to act up. I just ordered the Y servo bosters and will try them. I got two as I have four servos but I think I can just split it into two servos on each end of the Y. 
I run two servos on the Garratt and Double Fairlie without any problems so maybe this will work.


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