# Do I REALLY want to plant this there?



## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Kim got a couple Bloodgood Japanese Maple trees, and a couple Dwarf Weeping Cherry trees in the mail the other day. The NURSERY lit says the maples will get 15-18 feet tall and the cherries will get 8-12 feet tall. -- The online wikis say the maples will get 30' tall and the cherries up to 20'... which is right? 

Now, I think an 8' or 12' weeping cherry would look really cool inside the bottom loop and over by the pond.... and a 15' maple (with purple leaves) would be nice to help shade the front part (without actually being IN the layout) -- but the OTHER numbers mean both will become just TOO DARN BIG for those locations... Right now they are just sticks, the maples are about 2 feet tall, and the cherries a bit over 4... Who knows whether I'll still have a layout, or even be here in 20 years, but how big will they be in 5 or 10?


Anybody with experience willing to offer advice? Thanks!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'd follow the advice on the web. 

I have a lot of people get bad information from nurseries. When someone comes in and asks for a plant not to grow too tall, he's normally told a more conservative estimate on size. 

The tract I am in has a lot of high end landscaping. Many people wanted things to look good right away. 5 years later, most of these were overgrown, way too big. 

Watering and environment have a lot to do with it, but the difference between the web and the nursery seems to be a common thing. 

I don't like deciduous trees over my tracks in general. 

Evergreen trees might be more difficult at your place than mine though! 

Regards, Greg


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I've been in constant turmoil over this issue of trees and how big they grow. My Japanese maple, oak, maples and junipers are getting way big now. 

In the summer, it gets hot. Very hot. Very humid too. The shade and relaxation provided by the trees is inestimable. 

However, as the trees grow, they prevent the beautiful ground cover from getting sufficient sunlight and they will likely die off. 

It's a hard balance. Very agonizing. 

I'm at a loss as to give you advice, let alone myself. 
Dave V


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Those are way too tall for our use. We don't let our trees get over ~3' maximum. Many have been in place since the late 90's. We only plant true miniatures and it's just a matter of continually cutting back the new growth. 

Also, if these are to be for shade (rather than scale appearance), consider the size and number of the leaves that you will be cleaning up.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm honestly not worried about 'scale', nor very worried about leaves, either. Branches coming down on the house roof or through a window, yes. Having to cut down a perfectly good tree 5 years down the road just because I planted in the wrong spot, too.


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## SteveF (Jan 2, 2008)

Not that I like dragging up old threads, but you can keep these trees "scale size" by giving them a haircut periodically. You will also need to cut back their root systems, but that can easily be done with a spade at the drip line you establish with the annual prune job. They don't need to get 30 feet tall. An additional benefit is that the leaves will get smaller over time as you cut back the branches.


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

I have a couple of japanese maple trees on either side of my porch ca 20 year old and aproximately 15 ft tall ,love the colors in autumm ,will post pics in acouple of days! 
Manfred


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## lvmosher (Jan 2, 2008)

The size often depends on what end of the zone you are in. Here's a pic of a Japanese Maple (from above) 30 years old and no more than 20 feet tall. We love ours.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The spade trick only works for trees with primarily surface roots. 

But the real question is why plant something that you have to spend a lot of work fighting? 

I've also seen people "skip" a couple years, and then the tree grows a lot larger, and cutting it back looks awful. 

Interestingly I researched leaf size, and new branches will have smaller leaves at first, but I could not find correlation otherwise. I'd be interested in reading more on this if you have some references. I have mostly bonsai around the track, but reducing the leaf size of a couple of other plants would be nice. 

Regards, Greg


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## SteveF (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, you have to prune Alberta Spruce frequently to get it to look like a forest tree, the same with camaecyparis sp, but we continue to plant them in our little worlds, despite having to fight them from time to time. It's all in what you want, I guess. I'm no expert by any means, but smaller leaves with frequent pruning is what I've been taught.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, the new growth is normally smaller leaves. I guess I was asking if you had references to " An additional benefit is that the leaves will get smaller over time as you cut back the branches." 

I could not find a reference to getting smaller over time. Was just curious because I want to achieve that. 

Yes, all my plants are bonsai, in pots in the ground, and I periodically pull them out and trim them back. I love the look of the miniature trees: 

(Dwarf cotoneaster, looks a little like an apple tree) (yes it was ready for a trim!)











Regards, Greg


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I have a cotoneaster and it's my favorite. There's those apple thingies in the cool season and tiny buds in the warm season; always something to see; they're hardy too in N. Va. 

I have a Japanese maple beside the track that's maybe 7 or 8yr old. It hasn't gotten bigger than about 8 feet, which doesn't look half bad with my 7/8 scale (what scale you're in has a lot to do with plant tallness and leaf size); the Japanese maple's leaves are amazing, sometimes red, green, yellow, orange and sometimes different colors at the same time in different spots. I just love it. 

Dave V


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik, 
In the end, if you already HAVE the trees, plant them where you want. 

Chas


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## eroc731 (Aug 4, 2010)

Greetings all, after a hiatus I am back to the forum, I noticed this thread and could not resist...as a licensed landscape architcet and hopefully soon, garden railroader, I can tell you that there are "no perfect trees or shrubs"...in the end they all need routine care and maintenance....yes nurseries will often steer you wrong...looking up info oin the internet is also not always reliable either particularly when trying to research "ultimate size"...if something is happy, gets good exposure and loves its environement it will thrive....when something is struggling it tends to be smaller....that said there are many varieties of plants, that do very well with heavy pruning and in some cases can be pruned to the ground for regeneration....abelia, spirea, and itea, are good examples. I can't tell you how many times I have specified "dwarf" plants only to have the "root" stock genes come through and produce large specimens! Very frustrating!

In the end plant what you like, plant in odd #'s (3 of a kind) for balance and know that care and pruning will be needed especially if you are trying to keep something in "scale"...


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

In the end it didn't matter what I wanted to plant where. One of each never got leaves, and the seller won't return my e-mails.

OTOH we ended up with about 20 'volunteer' maples - sugar, we think. That have just been popping up all over the place. Some are already 2' tall! Anybody wants one or two, come get 'em this fall.


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