# Lenz Gold decoder + G-Wire receiver



## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

I am new to G scale (couple of years in) and do not have a garden railway. I’m in HO and very happy with DCC. I have installed DCC in two G scale locomotive (Bachmann k-27 and Connie) using the Lenz hybrid drive system, which works well. My local club operates battery power and live steam, no track power.

I like DCC, and do not want to move away from it. To go battery I see two options really, Air Wire or G wire. I really like the Lenz decoders and really want to stick with them; the motor control on them is fantastic.

I see QSI make a G-Wire receiver which can connect any DCC decoder to the G-Wire system.

Okay what I’m thinking is if I was to go battery power I would do this. 

G-Wire receiver + Lenz gold maxi decoder + Phoenix P5.

On the QSI page it says is compatible with Air wire, does this mean I can control G-wire receiver loco with a CVP Air wire hand controller?

Can I program all the CVs on the Lenz gold maxi via the air wire throttle? Can I achieve all the DCC things I can get with my current set up, like lighting effects? Basically is it DCC but with out the wires?

Does this sound okay; can I do what I plan to? Should I be thinking of anther way?

Thanks
Alan

PS my move has nothing to do with dirty track issues as the lenz system ill drive right over that, lets not bring it into the equation.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Airwire protocol can be sent by either of the 2 Airwire throttles, or the NCE Gwire throttle.

You can receive the signals with an AirWire receiver, or a QSI with the Gwire receiver (battery power no problem)


Also, certain DCC decoders can be easily modified to accept the gwire receiver and battery power. 


Stan Ames will see this post and probably tell you how to hook up the Lenz, but adding the phoenix will probably not work, but it might..

I would either use the Airwire receiver and a phoenix, or the QSI... simple, proven, easy.

Regards, Greg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Greg, your right, I would like to go the simple options, but I’m sold on Lenz and Phoenix If it can’t be done, I’ll need to have a good hard think.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The problem you have is that the Lenz and the Phoenix need to be fed the DCC signal separate from the power... 

It might work with the Phoenix running from the battery inputs (I know you can do this on a 2k2) but then you have the load of 2 decoders on the Gwire receiver output. 

Have you ever heard a QSI? They are pretty much on par with a Phoenix, a few advantages on the Phoenix side, and a few on the QSI side. 

Also, you will save A LOT of money going that way over a Lenz and a Phoenix. 

Anyway, maybe Stan knows. 

Regards, Greg 

Regards, Greg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

I haven’t heard a QSI, and I don’t know anyone in Australia who has one or sells them, to test one I’d need to buy one. A mate has a Phoenix, I liked it and purchased a couple. Another reason I went with Phoenix was the motor control was separate; I could pick the decoder I wanted to control the locomotive. 

Your right regarding the money, but I don’t plan having all that many locomotives, HO is the main game. If it costs me a bit more I’ll ware it. If I was going to have a lot of locos I’d just stick with DCC and be done with it, but as the people around me use battery I should consider becoming one of them.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If stan does not come over to this thread, I will make it a point to ask him for you, it think it may be possible. 

Regards, Greg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

That would be great Greg, much appreciated. 

One day it would nice to see a couple of train shows in the USA, If I ever do I will make the point of hearing a QSI card. 

I hope others learn something for thread as well, maybe they will think I’m mad


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I understand your reasoning and respect it, I did not notice you were from down under. I have heard it can be very difficult to get different brands there. 

Regards, Greg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Products in Australia are limited, I guess because our market size here is much smaller than America. 

I purchase the majority of my model train items from the USA, and nearly always get excellent service. I always visit my local hobby stores and purchase what I can from them.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I may be wrong, but i believe that the 900 mhz frequency used by Airwire/Gwire is illegal in Australia. It's reserved for other uses and hobby gear transmitting at that frequency is not allowed


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

As I understand it, Mike is correct. 900 Mhz is not legal to use in Australia. The particular fequency is reserved for telephone applications. 
2.4 GHz is legal now.


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## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony

NCE has advertised that their DCC system and radio interface have been certified in AU by the local distributir and is being sold legally there. The QSI adapatation is esentially the same hardwar using a different software load.

Alan

Hooking up a Gold Maxi to Gwire is very simple. I have several Bachmann locomotives with this adapation. The Track/Battery switch on the socket switches the DCC source from the track to Qwire.

The Qwire and the decoders +- are connected to the battery pack -. I use a 12 cell pack. The positive of the 4th cell is connected to the QWIRE receiver. A diode is also placed between the GWIRE positive and the battery pack to ensure that the polarity of the voltage is correct. The positive of the 12 cell is connected to the decoder + lead. Thats all there is to it.

Last I checked the Phoenix decoder was not compatible with GWIRE I suspect it is due to the low voltage od the DCC signal that the GWIRE receiver provides. To overcome this I simply use the decoders functions to trigger the sounds on the phoenix board I desire.

Normaly I use track signal and use the batteries to provide power when track power is not abailable and recharge the batteries when track power is available. I do this because track signal is the most reliable method to get the signal to the locomotive. I use the QSI QWIRE to provide signal when the locomotive is used on another layout.

Its a simple adapatation to combine GWIRE with the Gold Maxi decoder and it provides the motor control and sounds that I like on my railroad.

Stan Ames


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Tony, Mike, I believe you are correct. I do know others who use CVP wireless products in Australia. Does it make it okay that I am thinking of using it, probably not. If I stick to the rules I can’t have Air Wire or any other variant on wireless battery powered DCC. 

Stan, the NCE wires throttles are okay in Australia I think they operate at 916 MHz. Not sure if the G-Wire throttle is, which operate at 900 MHz. Tony is 916 MHz okay that you know of? 

Stan, it seems I could do what I want to, but not with a Phoenix P5 right? I would need the other type with the battery connections? It’s a shame I can’t connect it directly. 

Alan


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## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

Since the Lenz decoders have a SUSI interface, it must be possible, and probably much easier and cheaper, to get a SUSI sound board and use that to provide your sound. You could use a DIETZ microXS unit.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

High ball, I think you on to something, and I think it would work. I really won’t to stick with Phoenix.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

I am fairly certain 916 MHz is OK for Australia. 
So it is likely the local NCE distributor has their system approved on 916 MHz. 
As far as I know Digitrax R/C is not legal here. 

I do know that my R/C supplier, Elsema, is working on a new FHSS system on that frequency and they say it will be legal for Australia but not the USA or UK. As yet anyway.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Greg, Stan. 

I was thinking last night! Shock! 

I am an electrical engineer, and my knowledge of electronics is a bit sketchy at the best of time. You guys seem to know a thing or two about electronics and know a bit about DCC. 

If the signal from the G-Wire receiver is too weak to power the Phoenix sound P5, could you build a simple amplifier to boost he signal? I’m thinking something based around a little Op-Amp package. What do you think? 

Alan 

PS I have taken the plunge and ordered a G-Wire receiver.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, you could, it's not a high frequency signal, and it's probably just voltage related... you could probably get a circuit online with a simple 741 ic... 

Regards, Greg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Yes the 741 rings a bell from Uni days. I really need an oscilloscope to test it all, and to reduce the chance of letting the magic black smoke out of my DCC components. 

From memory the out put is related to the ratio of a couple of resistors. If I power the op amp from the battery I should be able to boost the single up a bit. It will be interesting to know what is coming out of the G Wire card. 

The DCC signal is a square wave frequency modulated right? 

I’ll try to get it going how Stan mentioned, but would like to try and get the Phoenix board running directly from the G-Wire card.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe it is 5 volts from zero to 5, and about 10kHz max, pretty close to a square wave. 

So you need a reasonable rise time amp. 

Try the Lenz first, then you will probably need the amp for the Phoenix... I would guess you can run the Lenz and the Phoenix off the amp. 

Regards, Greg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

The zero to 5 volts is what comes out of the G-Wire receiver? On track powered DCC it would be zero to the DCC voltage (max voltage of the supply minus the voltage drop across the DCC system) right? 

Re reading your original post Greg I believe you actual said the G-wire receive does not have the capacity to drive both the Lenz and the phoenix, not the voltage being to low for the phoenix? If you could clarify that would help. 

Cheers 
Alan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The G wire receiver runs on 5 volts... it gets it's power (normally) from the QSI board. 

The wave form is 0 to 5 volts, which does NOT meet the track power DCC standards, which are bipolar and a higher voltage. 

Nevertheless, many DCC decoders will operate on this signal level... but the Phoenix will not. 

(I might be wrong about the unipolar output of the Gwire... Stan put one on a 'scope, I have not done this to mine yet) 

Basically, you need to get the specs on the receiver, figure out the power needed, and will probably have to build an amp to get the voltage high enough, and it might also change the unipolar signal to a bipolar one. If this does not make sense, then I think you need someone to help you to design and implement what you want.

You are going about this the hard way, so you have to accept it will be more work. You either will need to get the knowledge or pay for it is my take on the bottom line.

I've answered your questions literally, but you are most likely to have problems just trying to connect stuff unless someone gives you detailed instructions, AND is willing to support you in the implementation. 


Regards, Greg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Greg, I hear you about doing things the hard way! Stan said I can do what I want to do and I’m happy with that. I have now ordered a G-wire card. 

I am interested in taking it to the next level and making the Phoenix directly interface to the G-Wire card. Personally I’m a bit surprised someone hasn’t made a truly generic wireless card that can be connected into any decoder. 

Have some faith, I could pull this off. I am an engineer, but this will test and force me to test my knowledge of electronics. It’s good some times to test yourself, great way to learn. 

Thanks for the info, it will be a big help if I do decide to have a go at supercharging the signal from the G-Wire card. 

Alan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great Alan... 

A recent turn of events has soured me on this site, so if I can help, please send me private email. I do have a friend that is "gasp" an analog engineer, and I do have a scope and a gwire, so maybe we can make this a project. 

I won't be posting any information on the site for a while. 

Regards, Greg


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

Greg, I notice you seem to get a bit of a hammering sometimes, its model trains guys, lets enjoy! Anyway beyond the scope of this thread. 

We analogue guys can be confused by funky electronic LBT (little black things). 

I will keep you posted on the project. To be honest is a while away because its low down the modelling projects list. Also over the past year I have been travelling a heap for work. It’s okay to have a freight car kit in the bag, but trying to do an electronics project on the run, forget it! Next time I’m home I’ll pull out the old text books and do some reading. 

Stay cool Greg, It 46 degrees C here!


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