# USA Trains Switches



## Mr Magoo (Mar 1, 2008)

Can anyone tell me if the USA Trains Switches with the remote switch are any good for outdoors. I've had aristo-craft point switches and they are no good once water gets to them
Wayne


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There's a thread on this somewhere. Short answer, the electrics for outdoors do not seem better, but for different reasons.


*[url]http://www.elmassian.com/trains-mainmenu-27/track-mainmenu-93/usat-6-switches*[/url]

Regards, Greg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Do not even think Aristo for anything located outside of the livingroom. 

I have heard that USA does better, however .... be prepared for repairs and upgrades over time. 

These guys all live in California. 


gg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have my Aristo's outside, but all the wiring rotted. I have an external waterproof microswitch integrated with my air motor switch machines. Now the only problem is the corrosion of the pot metal frog when the plating comes off. I'm stuck because I run stainless. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'm running two aristo #6 switches outside. I've had no trouble at all with them, although they did take a lot of tweaking to get tuned up. I should add I'm using LGB switch machines. But they've been out there in heavy rain for a few months now, no problems yet


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By lownote on 05/15/2009 9:21 PM
I'm running two aristo #6 switches outside. I've had no trouble at all with them, although they did take a lot of tweaking to get tuned up. I should add I'm using LGB switch machines. But they've been out there in heavy rain for a few months now, no problems yet




Lownote. yes... 




Now let us discuss a stock item and straight out of the box ! 

Different story would you not agree? 


This is my whole point. Aristo stuff does not even meet "livingroom" status. I need to go to Train Li to get retrofit frog inserts !

Would you pay for a car with a offspec transmission and simply say... ohhh... need to upgrade this new car... just purchased ! ?????????????????????????????????


well?????


I have Aristo cars (kitbash quality compared to what I am currently buying) .... trust me, you would not catch me dead purchasing Aristo stuff given what I have been exposed to, this to date ! I am the stupid one here and this reflects on the concept of "let the buyer beware" ... 


A 30% premium gets me 100% more rolling fleet quality... 


As for Locos... no.... not going there... too many other quality choices at a competive price. 



gg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

This stuff gets so tiresome! 

I've had more than my share of troubles with Aristo stuff, but also with stuff from other manufacturers. Aristo doesn't really seem any better or worse than the others in terms of quality control. Have you looked at any of the Bachmann threads around here? I'll admit Lewis plays a little fast and loose with the facts. 


I have rolling stock from Aristo, USAT, AML and Bachmann. The Aristo stuff seems fine to me, but maybe I'm just not paying enough attention. Some of their rolling stock is out of scale--like, say, the USAT ore car? 


The brand loyalty this stuff inspires seems odd to me. I am very happy to see threads with accurate information, and happy to see problems pointed out and solutions offered. But really, you don't even have a track built yet and you've already formed this definitive opinion? Even Nick has some Aristo Heavyweight cars!


Yes, absolutely, the Aristo switches should not need tweaking out of the box. Was the time I invested equal to the money I saved? That's a calculation each person can make for himself. I'd like to try out trainli's switches. They cost a lot more in stainless. Maybe it's worth it.

When and if the electronic components on my aristo switches fail I'll report it.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mine seem to have failed much faster than others... I left my track power on continuously for several years. It seems that the galvanic action really eats things up, and the track gets watered every other day... 

I did not do anything to prolong the life of the microswitches which failed stuck in the "actuated" position quite quickly. When they stuck, then one direction through the frog causes a short. Having a 10 amp supply means that it melted some things, the polyswitches did not always work for some reason. 

I was disappointed by the inability to adjust the actuating mechanism, so early on I decided to look for alternative ways to power the switch. 

All of this I took in stride, since the outdoor environment is tougher, and I was running continuous power, and getting them wet every day. 

But the disappointing thing is the frog geometry, where the wheels drop down into the frog throat and cause rapid wear on the frog, and the plating goes away. There is pot metal underneath. It is beginning to corrode. 

The Train-Li insert solves the problem, turning the frog into a flange bearing frog, now the wheels do not drop into the frog and chew it away, but super deep flanges go "bump" on the switch. I will be turning down the super big flanges. 

Those are my observations and conclusions and solutions. The Aristo switch is still a reasonable deal, but not 1/2 the price of everyone else's switch any more. If I was starting out, I would go code 250 SS and find some good switches... 

No bashing, just observations, facts. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

On my old layout I fixed and fixed the switches until I got so tired of I changed to all hand throws. I have 10 USA #6's to go on the new layout. I've decided to fix them once or twice and that's it, I'll go to hand throws.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never tried the USAT switches, but in my experience the LGB Switch motors are hard to beat. I've had two outside for a year and a half now and have done no maintenance whatsoever, and they still work reliably. An LGB Motor will install easily in an aristo switch


If you runn DCC, there are some very good options for sale from TRainLI


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB motor is definably robust machine for out door use. AC and USAT are not. I have used hand throw switches for years and when I finally switched to DCC and Train-Li came out with there DCC switch motors I now have several switches powered. 

I use all AC switches and also have the NO 6 however as Greg mentioned the frog area is a poor design. Not so much wear on frog but the wheels chew up the wing rails when they drop off the frog to make the transition to the wing rails. The Train-Li inserts correct this problem. Later RJD


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By lownote on 05/15/2009 10:27 PM
This stuff gets so tiresome! 

I've had more than my share of troubles with Aristo stuff, but also with stuff from other manufacturers. Aristo doesn't really seem any better or worse than the others in terms of quality control. Have you looked at any of the Bachmann threads around here? I'll admit Lewis plays a little fast and loose with the facts. 


I have rolling stock from Aristo, USAT, AML and Bachmann. The Aristo stuff seems fine to me, but maybe I'm just not paying enough attention. Some of their rolling stock is out of scale--like, say, the USAT ore car? 


The brand loyalty this stuff inspires seems odd to me. I am very happy to see threads with accurate information, and happy to see problems pointed out and solutions offered. But really, you don't even have a track built yet and you've already formed this definitive opinion? Even Nick has some Aristo Heavyweight cars!


Yes, absolutely, the Aristo switches should not need tweaking out of the box. Was the time I invested equal to the money I saved? That's a calculation each person can make for himself. I'd like to try out trainli's switches. They cost a lot more in stainless. Maybe it's worth it.

When and if the electronic components on my aristo switches fail I'll report it. 









Yes Lownote, I am indeed tired of this product bashing and I like your diplomatic approach here re manufacturers. 


I do however say that your comment re *"you don't even have a track built yet and you've already formed this definitive opinion?"* is a bit over the top. Track inside and on the floor and track outside are two worlds of their own. However this does not preclude me from the right to offer comment on what I am able to evaluate on my test track including a technical evaluation re outdoor suitability, run on my inside track and reconcile same with various forum commentaries. I am one to do my homework. 


My "new product" comments hold true. They should be fit for the intended purpose. I should be able to purchase a car, drive it for the intended purpose and not have to tweek the trannie despite the fact that the car is new out of the box. This is the point here. I just bought a new car for my son. This is a purchase based on suitability and a techno evaluation for the service. Note I said here... suitability for the intended service. He now has a subcompact for the city .... not a SUV for mountain climbing.. two different worlds. 


Finally, there is plenty of product out there that is definitely superior to the offering that Aristo has. I know... I own some of it. Not really to degrade Aristo, however to point out that the product offered in many cases does not suit the intended service as I now well know. 



Sorry, but I need to make my point re "get-what-you-pay-for". 

gg


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Nohandles on 05/16/2009 5:38 AM
On my old layout I fixed and fixed the switches until I got so tired of I changed to all hand throws. I have 10 USA #6's to go on the new layout. I've decided to fix them once or twice and that's it, I'll go to hand throws.


Yo Doug, you are applying the KISS theory and I agree. 

In my older age I consider bending over and flipping switches an exercise ! 













gg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05/15/2009 10:56 PM
... I left my track power on continuously for several years. 




Was there a reason for this? Just curious.


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I have found this thread very informative and educational for me. I have fairly limited experience with switches. I have both Aristo and LGB switches, and all of mine have manual throws, and I use battery power. Under these conditions in the Florida rains and high humidity, I personally haven't seen any difference in the durability or operability between the LGB and Aristo switches. I agree 100% that the Aristo elec. switch motors are NOT outdoor devices. In fact I have seen them fail sitting outside BEFORE they were ever used!! I find the info about LGB motors and others to be most informative. Thanks for enlightening me in that regard.

Ed


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I agree ED, we seem to learn something new all the time here. thats what makes it great to be a member here..


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Posted By GG on 05/16/2009 7:53 PM
Posted By Nohandles on 05/16/2009 5:38 AM
On my old layout I fixed and fixed the switches until I got so tired of I changed to all hand throws. I have 10 USA #6's to go on the new layout. I've decided to fix them once or twice and that's it, I'll go to hand throws.


Yo Doug, you are applying the KISS theory and I agree. 

In my older age I consider bending over and flipping switches an exercise ! 













gg

gg- when I get to old to bend over hopefully they will have a reliable switch machine to install.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

GG, I meant no disrespect friend. But have you ever kitbashed anything? A good kitbash can be a much more accurate and pleasing model than the original it was based on. Saying that aristo cars are "kitbash quality" is both a little insulting to the work that a lot of kitbashers (not me) do, and an inaccurate description. 
Today I was at Dr. Rivet's steamup in Virginia. I saw some handmade brass freight cars that cost $250 plus a piece. They were perfectly in scale and had a level of detail that you don't see on any production rolling stock. I'll happily admit that they were much better than anything I've ever seen from Aristo or USA or AML. There were some accucraft brass passenger cars there that put the USAT cars and the aristo cars to shame. It is absolutely true that if you spend more money you can get better quality. If you want to spend $14,000 on passenger cars and can, more power to you. I will enjoy seeing them.


Our layout gets a lot of visits from neighbors with children. I let the kids open boxcar doors and put things in; I let them put loads in the gondolas and hoppers. So I'm not going to argue that Aristo's less expensive, less detailed cars are no good: they are excellent, in fact, for the purpose I've put them to. You can make the point that more money gets you more detail without the broad statements


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Again, I have a question. From my limited experience it has been that the more detailed engines and cars are also somewhat more fragile. Have others noted this?? I have found that for me, there is a balance between ruggedness (resistance to the abuse I sometimes give them) and the amount of fine detail that is included in both engines and cars. I'm not referring here to quality of manufacture (ie. was it assembled corectly - or even was the design a good one) but here, just as to the amount of fine detail on a product.

Ed


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I find it's always a balance between accuracy and practicality. I have, for example, aristo truck mounted couplers. Lots of time I think they look awful--oversized, and with way too much space between the cars. But then they are also very forgiving of marginal track work and slop in switches, and they are easy for kids to operate. 

If I want a layout that's kid friendly an open to the neighborhood, which is kind of what we have, I have to tolerate a certain amount of ruggedeness and break-resistance, which means less detail. 


But it was really neat to see the high qulity stuff at Dr. Rivet's place. Maybe I'll build a second live steam track where I can run finescale stuff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To answer Ed's question, I don't contrast locos between Bachmann and Aristo and USAT because there is basically no overlap. If I want a certain loco, I have no choice to buy it from. There may be more external detail parts on some, but the overall "ruggedness" of the body shell and the mechanisms have no relation to those external bits in my experience. 

In rolling stock, I often contrast the USAT box cars with the Aristo cars. The level of detail, and the "fineness" of the detail is higher on USAT cars. Look at things like the sliding door latches, no comparision, the USAT looks and acts prototype, the Aristo is a toylike "catch" many times larger and not at all realistic. 

The USAT latch will break if you let kids play with it over and over. I have never had one break but I keep track of people's experiences, i.e. I base my opinions on a lot larger sample than just my personal experience. 

The USAT "stirrups" at the undersides are also more fragile, and they will break more easily in derailments. 

So, I would say, in terms of rolling stock, that yes, the more highly detailed cars are more prone to damage from rough handling. I have made a decision to accomodate that extra risk on my layout because I appreciate the higher level of detail. 

So far, I am not disappointed in my decision, but to each his own. 

Regards, Greg


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

As the majority of garden railroaders are not as spry as they used to be, kneeling to throw ground throws can be hard on the back and knees. Our club overcame this problem on a recently installed siding by installing elevated switch levers.












The switch is activated by using an automotive choke cable available at automotive parts stores. The levered end of the cable is mounted on an L bracket fastened to a steel T post sold by Home Depot for use with chain link fencing.












The open end of the cable is attached to a small L bracket so it can tuck in close to the track. The L bracket is attached to the switch throw bar

Note: Brass throw bars are not recommended for track power.


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