# RailBoss compared to A/C Revolution



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi Guys - I'm going to open myself up to take some heat for this post, but I would like to make some comments about Jerry's thread on the Revolution, without screwing up his thread, per his request. You can find that post here ... My Introduction to the Revolution 


Since I have only just launched sales of the "2.4GHZ Enhanced RailBoss", it isn't an unbiased product review, and it may be awhile before any customers jump into this post. So feel free to ask questions, criticize, or just totally ignore it! 


I'll start with a few of the negative points about my system (compared to the Rev) ...

1. Larger transmitter (but once you try it, you will see it is quite usable and lightweight.)
2. Won't run multiple trains from the same transmitter at the same time (fairly challenging in most cases, at least on a small layout like mine).
3. No feedback from the receiver (but you get some from the front headlight)
4. No Plug 'n Play (I won't invest in it until I am convinced it is a standard) 


And a few of the things RailBoss does that the Rev can't ...

1. Automated station stops
2. Automated back 'n forth trolley operation
3. Statistical control of the station stop and sound functions 

4. Built in diagnostics to assist with wiring problems. 


And now more specifically to address some comments in the other post about the Rev's momentum control ... It sounds like you can program the momentum but can't turn it on/off from the transmitter? The Railboss allows you to do just that. So you can program in that nice long prototypical momentum, slap the proportion throttle stick up to your favorite running speed and just watch it take off nice and easy. Then, anytime you need faster response, like switching in the yards, a flick of a stick and momentum is off and out of the way, until you need it again. (Tony - Feel free to jump in and describe how your BELTROL momentum works, which is apparently also much better IMO than the Rev.) 


And, of course, like the Rev, the minimum starting speed and maximum speeds are completely programmable to allow for double-heading / MU operations, to eliminate wasted motion of the bottom end of the throttle, and to limit the speed of those little people you may want to trust with your toys.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Del. 
I don't think the negatives are actually all that negative. Not with BELTROL anyway. 
1. Sure the TX is quite big. But is lightweight and the locos can be controlled by one hand anyway. 
2. Actually you can run as many trains as you want. Either one at a time or ganged together in consists. 
3. I really don't think you need all the mickey mouse info anyway. 
4. BELTROL does have a PnP ESC available. This fits any standard PnP socket used by AristoCraft and Bachmann. 

On the plus side. 
1. The really big plus with either RailBoss and BELTROL, compared to any other battery R/C system, is the digital proportional speed control. Anyone that has used it raves about it. 
No other control system offers such precise proportional control. 
2. Speed matching is so simple because you don't have to worry about programming in values. All you need to do is note the stick position at the point the loco starts to move and place the stick in that position when setting the speed in the memory. 
3. The BELTROL momentum control is continuously variable. At will. You can either have quick starts and stops or at any rate up to 30 seconds from full stop to running full speed and from running full speed to full stop. Depending on the stick position. It is really slick. 
4. Just like the REVO the BELTROL also has default direction on start up so that back to back running is permitted. 

One other plus. Something that I believe REVO cannot do. 
The BELTROL ESC's are compatible with QSI sound. They can be programmed for an idle voltage to be sent to the QSI so that when stopped the sound stays alive. Direction change is achieved without the sound dying. Very soon the BELTROL will also be able to control the QSI Whistle/Horn and Bell.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Guys, can you make it so the starting voltage actually starts at zero? The Revo will let you INCREASE the starting voltage, but not reduce it. Some locos move at "zero" speed on the Revo. 

Regards, GReg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg. 

The various brands of stick radios are all very slightly different in total stick movement. So, to take that into account, the program was written in such a way that it measures the exact total movement of the throttle stick and makes the bottom of the movement zero. 
Provided the speed is calibrated properly during set up, the output at zero stick position is zero. There is no leakage of voltage. 
Unless of course it is programmed to have a higher start (or "idle") voltage, such as for the QSI sound system idle. 
Depending on whether the constantly variable momentum is engaged or not, the very first click on the throttle stick turns on an automatic notch 8 output function whilst the second click starts voltage ramping up.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

RailBoss works the same way. Stick at min is zero volts, but it can be near maximum battery voltage if that is what you want. 

Railboss also has a feature during throttle programming; you can either program the desired output using stick position as a reference while the loco sits in front of you, or you can have an active throttle mode, where you actually set the voltage/speed while observing the loco running. So to precisely set min starting voltage without any quess work or trial and error, use the active throttle mode: increase the throttle until the loco starts to move, then back it off slightly. A slight movement off of min throttle position will now start motion.


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## COFFEEBREAK (Jul 27, 2009)

Will either system work on track power? I am looking for a system that will work with DCS and the system operating off track power at the same time???????

Ed


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you for the question Ed. 
The answer for BELTROL is no. 
Currently I have no plans to make it work using a constant track voltage for power. 
If I miss out on sales then so be it. I do not want the grief associated with the complexities associated with constant track power. Do you ever read on their website of the problems a competing product has, which are mostly track power related? 
It is certainly not my desire to start any sort of heated argument on the pros and cons. 
I simply believe that if you are going to the trouble of making track power work then you might as well do what you are already doing and stick to DCS or DCC. 

That does not mean others have not had quite a degree of success using such a method of supplying power to on board R/C.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Sorry Ed - No track power for the RailBoss. G-Scale Graphics is dedicated to providing "Simple Low Cost Battery Power" solutions.

Track power is a nasty environment for electronics due to the numerous poor electrical connections all the way from the power supply, through the track joints, and the wipers or brushes used to pick-up power for the locomotive. This is why the A/C REV requires a fairly huge capacitor board to filter out all of the noise. Personally, I would rather use that space in my locos for batteries.


Also, my philosophy is, if you are going to go to all of the trouble to isolate your motor to install a decoder or a receiver, why not just run battery power. (Although in a few cases PNP sockets have simplified this to some extent).


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## COFFEEBREAK (Jul 27, 2009)

Tony, I am sorry, I don't know which web site you are refering to. please enlighten me . I am just trying to collect imfo at this time and I have very limited experince with RC. I think that I heard that it was a bad idea to run track power and batt. at the same time???

Ed


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Ed - No problem running track power and battery power at the same time at all! Battery powered locomotives are isolated from the track; i.e. the track pickups are either removed or switched out of the circuit. So you can run as many battery powered trains as you want at the same time, in addition to however many track powered trains your track power system will allow. 

I assume Tony was referring to the Aristo-Craft web-site. It sounds like the majority of their problems are associated with track power glitches (which I would assume resets the processor and screws things up. Many reports of losing the R/C link, but again, most likely just resetting the processor. Just a total guess on my part, no facts.) 

Edit: Which brings up a good question: Can you run the REV system with the transmitter off? Both the RailBoss and Beltrol systems will just keep running at the last known speed setting, fat dumb and happy, until you turn the Tx back on.This feature saves your transmitter batteries.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Ed. 

Del is correct about running track powered locos and battery powered locos at the same time on the same track. 
What I was referring to was the extra complexities associated with using a constant track voltage to power the on board R/C. 
It is not just the resetting when running on constant track voltage mentioned at the AristoCraft forum. It is also the blown up REVOLUTION RX's. 
As to why they blow up I cannot comment. I am merely telling what is reported at the AristoCraft website. 
I do have an opinion and it has to do with the fact that not all AristoCraft Plug and Play sockets are wired the same way. 
There are many variations and some don't actually isolate both sides of the track when the Track/Battery switch is set to Battery. 
Some locos have the pigtail connections at either end of the locos wired back to front to others. 
You can draw your own conclusions.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

... Can you run the REV system with the transmitter off? ... 
Yes. The receiver keeps going at the last remembered speed until it regains a link and gets new commands from the transmitter. The transmitter shuts itself down after a few minutes if it's not being used (I forget what the time period is). 

Later, 

K


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

The transmitter shuts itself down after a few minutes if it's not being used (I forget what the time period is). 

Kevin....... the transmitter "off" time is adjustable from 1 to 60 minutes.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Another comparison (again commenting on the other thread) ... no adapter boards needed to use the RailBoss R/C with a Sierra sound board. The RailBoss has two built in opto-isolators used for the bell and whistle.

The RailBoss provides more than just manual R/C controlled sound triggers. It can also control your track magnet actuated whistle/horn as well. Repetitive track activated whistles get old in a hurry, especially on a small layout. The RailBoss allows you to program that activation to occur 25%, 50%, 75%, or 100% of the time, making your layout less predictable. In addition you can enable or disable the track activated whistle from the transmitter any time you like.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 30 Sep 2009 03:28 PM 
Hi Guys - I'm going to open myself up to take some heat for this post, but I would like to make some comments about Jerry's thread on the Revolution, without screwing up his thread, per his request. You can find that post here ... My Introduction to the Revolution 


Since I have only just launched sales of the "2.4GHZ Enhanced RailBoss", it isn't an unbiased product review,


Hi Del,

I see no reason why you should get any heat from anyone over this topic. You are doing exactly what I had hoped that those using other systems would do and I certainly have no objection to your making comparisons between the RailBoss and the Revolution. I know nothing about the RailBoss.

If someone (not me) should have a legitimate difference of opinion regarding the comparisons you make with the Revolution I would hope that they will give facts to support the differences and that your topic is given the same respect and consideration that my topic has received.

I also think it speaks well of you that you have stated clearly that you have a vested interest in the product you are discussing. 

Regards,

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Wait until I post the QSI vs. TE thread... even though just the same as your two guys' thread... I will get immediate grief and be accused of everything. 

Thanks for breaking the ice guys, it will make my life a bit easier. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05 Oct 2009 03:57 PM 
Wait until I post the QSI vs. TE thread... even though just the same as your two guys' thread... I will get immediate grief and be accused of everything. 

Thanks for breaking the ice guys, it will make my life a bit easier. 

Regards, Greg 

Hi Greg,

Why should you be given grief and accused of anything as long as you are quoting specific features and functions of products without saying derogatory things about competitive products? Any product can be discussed with a positive attitude without saying negative things about other products. Heck, I even think batteries are good until someone tries to tell me that I need to convert to batteries. My wife is the only person who can tell me what I should do and she quit doing that about 30 years ago.

Batteries seem to cost around $10 per hour of running time. That does not make a $100 battery better than a $10 battery because someone like me can be perfectly happy with a $10 battery but someone else may really need a $100 battery. I think control systems are like a big basket of fruit. Some like apples, others like oranges and others like peaches. I'm most happy with an assortment so I can change from day to day.

If you start talking about oranges and someone starts throwing tomatoes, tell them to open a topic about tomatoes.









Cheers,

Jerry


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Readers of this thread might wish to see how _*BEL*__*T*__*ROL*_ compares to other popular R/C systems, feature wise.


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