# Piko Santa Fe 0-6-0 Loco and Tender Now With Sound!



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi everybody. My Piko Sante Fe 0-6-0 now has sound and smoke added to it. Smoke by Seuthe 5 generator. Sound via PIko's #36220 sound kit. A very easy install wit possibly a few bugs as you'll see and hear in this video:




Enjoy! 
Andrew


----------



## choochoowilly (Oct 31, 2016)

RkyGriz said:


> Hi everybody. My Piko Sante Fe 0-6-0 now has sound and smoke added to it. Smoke by Seuthe 5 generator. Sound via PIko's #36220 sound kit. A very easy install wit possibly a few bugs as you'll see and hear in this video:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEjAiheZh3g
> Enjoy!
> Andrew


Andrew, is the chuff rate adjustable, like if you want it to chuff 4 times in a revolution instead of 2 can it be adjusted? thanks , Bill


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

I talked to a fellow at Piko,about various things this morning,and I did ask him about this. Yes,it is adjustable,but you need to have a DCC system,which is something that I do not have, in order to make the change. There are instructions for those commands included in the kit with the unit.
Hope this was helpful!
Andrew


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi,everybody! I had a nice conversation with the good folks at Piko's office in San Diego a few minutes ago. All the issues that I am experiencing with this unit (and my camelback, which does the exact same things as this one does!)are being caused by my vintage Lionel transformer #4060, which at some 32 years of age, is not up to the challenge of powering these new,modern trains. It works great for my Bachmann,Lionel,Kalamazoo,and Hartland locomotive,but for Piko and LGB,it is inadequate, and I will not be running the Piko locomotives until I can afford a better power supply.
Later!
Andrew


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Controller; 

https://www.mpja.com/LED-Dimmer-Module-12-24VDC-30A/productinfo/33920+MI/
Power supply;
https://www.mpja.com/24-Volt-Power-Supply-65A-150W-Switching-Hengfu/productinfo/16032+PS/


----------



## choochoowilly (Oct 31, 2016)

Totalwrecker said:


> Controller;
> 
> https://www.mpja.com/LED-Dimmer-Module-12-24VDC-30A/productinfo/33920+MI/
> Power supply;
> https://www.mpja.com/24-Volt-Power-Supply-65A-150W-Switching-Hengfu/productinfo/16032+PS/


 Yes do your own http://www.trainelectronics.com/PowerController/index.htm


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Totalwrecker said:


> Controller;
> 
> https://www.mpja.com/LED-Dimmer-Module-12-24VDC-30A/productinfo/33920+MI/
> /



Only problem is that all G-Scale equipment doesn't run properly with a PWM controller.
Worst case you can destroy the electronics.


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Thanks for the input gentlemen. But I'm currently thinking about going with something a little safer. Right now, I'm considering a USA Trains 40M unit that I found on Ebay. It puts out 3 amps,so I think it will do the job nicely.
Thanks again! 

Andrew


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Andrew,

Before you put your money down, see if you can find the actual specs of this unit.

The one image I see shows an output rating of 0-24 volts at 17VA
That means the output to the track at full voltage is not even 1 amp

I don't have a unit like that, but it sure won't put out 3 amps or anything close to that to the track.


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi. Here's a couple photos of the actual unit for sale on Ebay. Seller actually claims that it puts out 4 amps. My bad. I thought he said 3. He wants nearly $100.00 for it plus shipping. 

I also found an Aristocraft unit for quite a bit less. And it does say 3 amps on the casing. 

I kind of like the Aristocraft better, but am a little concerned since Aristocraft is long gone.
What do you think?
Andrew


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Forget what the seller says.
Or even what the spec says.

Look at the name plate on the actual unit.
The VA (Volt-Amp) rating will tell you the maximum power the unit is designed to deliver.
To get the current it can deliver at any output voltage, divide the VA rating by the voltage, that will give you amps.
So at 24 volts (with a 17 VA rating), that USA Trains power pack will deliver 0.7 amps (17/24).
At lower voltages (ie lower speed) it will probably deliver more current, but that relationship is not linear.
So at 12 volts, the best you can expect is about 1.4 amps

Model train manufacturers tend to play games - they say the unit will provide 2 amps but won't specify the voltage. They just often show both the maximum voltage and the maximum current, but fail to tell you that the unit won't deliver both at the same time.
So always look for the VA rating.

The Aristocraft unit has a 60 VA rating, it should put out 2.5 amps at 24 volts or 3 amps at 20 volts assuming there is no load on the AC terminal.
That's the other thing - since a bigger VA rating sells better, the VA rating is always for all the power the unit can deliver, AC and DC.

As to the Aristocraft unit - although it doesn't look as pretty as the USA Trains one - it definitely puts out more current.
The only thing I would check is to see if it's a PWM unit and if so, if the PWM can be turned off to provide DC instead.


Both of these units are quite old - I would try to get something a bit more modern.


Good power is pretty important when it comes to model trains.
Over the years there have been many posts on mls with people reporting strange problems only to find out in the end that the power pack was not adequate or the power was not DC.


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Thank you! What you said makes a lot of sense ,and I will look for other solutions to this issue. The more modern issue is exactly what Jonathan from Piko and I talked about this morning.
I'm definitely going to have to do a lot more research before deciding on buying anything.
Thanks again !
Andrew


----------



## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Andrew;

You may want to consider the MRC pack that is built specifically for large scale (as shown on the table in the photo). This unit can deliver up to 10 amps. I believe the voltage tops at 20V. It will cost more, but I have nothing but good things to say about the unit I own. I don't run electric locomotives as much any more, since going to live steam, but this pack has never let me down.









Regards,
David Meashey


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Hi,Dave. MRC is one of the companies I talked with the fellows at Piko about. They said that,in their opinion, MRC isn't a good choice for their locomotives.
I don't know, as I've only owned an MRC Tech II transformer.It worked well with the Bachmamm,Lionel ,and Kalamazoo locomotives, but I sold it a long time ago in favor of the Lionel #4060 transformers. My experience is limited to Bachmann,Lionel, Life-Like,and Tech II transformers.Out of all of those, the Lionel #4060 is the only one that doesn't get overloaded. I have 2 of the Lionel #4060 transformers, and they have served me well for nearly 15 years. 

Now, I buy these 2 Piko locomotives ,with their DCC/Analog sound units, and those transformers are suddenly inadequate.


I've had a couple of other G Scalers on another web forum encouraging me to take the advice of building my own, and after I finish my research, I just might do that, if I can figure everything out, and it can be made neat and tidy where there's no wires sticking out anywhere. It is a rather intriguing idea!
I have looked at that big MRC transformer on Ebay in the past. It's great,but it's also too expensive for currently my limited budget(about $75 to $100.00).
Thank you for your suggestion. I wish that I had the money to be able to afford such a nice transformer for my trains!
Andrew


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The MRC 10 output is pulsed power and some sound units and DCC equipped engines will not run or run properly on this unit. The fix is to add the linear filter by crest electronics.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Dan Pierce said:


> The MRC 10 output is pulsed power and some sound units and DCC equipped engines will not run or run properly on this unit. The fix is to add the linear filter by crest electronics.





Couldn't the linear filter be added to the set up I posted? Around $50


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

RkyGriz said:


> Hi. Here's a couple photos of the actual unit for sale on Ebay. Seller actually claims that it puts out 4 amps. My bad. I thought he said 3. He wants nearly $100.00 for it plus shipping.
> 
> I also found an Aristocraft unit for quite a bit less. And it does say 3 amps on the casing.
> 
> ...


NO WAY, look at the VA

False advertising, over priced.


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

I think that I may have found a viable ,modern, power source for all of ny G Scale trains. As most of you already know, I am a big fan of Lionel trains and the transformers that Lionel makes. I believe that this Lionel power supply may be my answer at a very affordable price: http://www.lionel.com/products/cw-80-80-watt-transformer-6-14198/
The Lionel 6-14198 CW-80 80-Watt transformer is rated at 80 watts,and I believe that it will prove to be a sufficient source of power to run all of my G Scale trains,including my 2 Piko locomotives and the LGB Mogul. 

Thoughts,please, gentlemen,as I will be possibly buying one of these on Ebay on July 3rd, as I have a large credit there that will become available to spend on that date.
As always, thank you for your valued opinions on the subject. They are always greatly appreciated!
Andrew


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

You can use the Lionel transformer if you add a full wave diode bridge and a DPDT switch to reverse the power and I like the ones that have a center off. Also add a 4700 uf capacitor to the bridge output to get filtered DC as the diode bridge will only supply rectified pulses. Be sure the diode bridge has a higher current rating than the Lionel transformer.


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Thanks ,Dan. I have found out that the Lionel CW-80 is AC only, and it is unsuitable for my purposes.
I've decided upon the MRC 1310 9900. It puts out 80va and 4 amps. It is brand new, comes with a 2 year warranty, and the price is $148.00, which,while a little spendy for me, is a great deal.
Thanks gain! 

Andrew


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

RkyGriz said:


> Hi,Dave. MRC is one of the companies I talked with the fellows at Piko about. They said that,in their opinion, MRC isn't a good choice for their locomotives.
> I don't know, as I've only owned an MRC Tech II transformer.It worked well with the Bachmamm,Lionel ,and Kalamazoo locomotives, but I sold it a long time ago in favor of the Lionel #4060 transformers. My experience is limited to Bachmann,Lionel, Life-Like,and Tech II transformers.Out of all of those, the Lionel #4060 is the only one that doesn't get overloaded. I have 2 of the Lionel #4060 transformers, and they have served me well for nearly 15 years.
> 
> Now, I buy these 2 Piko locomotives ,with their DCC/Analog sound units, and those transformers are suddenly inadequate.


 Andrew,
The previous locos you had, or still have, were basic units with typically just a motor, lights and maybe smoke.
Sound, if any had it, was also very basic.
For those most power packs will work as long as they can put out enough current at the voltage you want to tun them.
When you add modern sound modules (by any manufacturer, not just Piko), you took a step up in sophistication.
Many sound units require a proper "clean" DC supply, not a pulsed one, and also more current.
Both the sound module and the smoke unit add to the current the loco requires - again nothing unique to Piko or the specific locos you have.
I typically run a 2-motor LGB loco with sound but no smoke (it's an electric prototype) along with 10 or 12 lit passenger cars, and going up a 2% incline, that consists draws about 3 1/2 amps.
Your locos have a single motor, if you run freight there is no current required for the passenger lights and if you only have level track, that requires less current that inclines, but I would try to get a power pack that puts out at least 2 amps.





> I've had a couple of other G Scalers on another web forum encouraging me to take the advice of building my own, and after I finish my research, I just might do that, if I can figure everything out, and it can be made neat and tidy where there's no wires sticking out anywhere. It is a rather intriguing idea!
> Andrew



Although I have built several of my own power packs, DC ones not the PWM ones, in your case I would recommend against that simply because, based on the various discussions, you don't seem very confident when it comes to electronics.


Knut


----------



## RkyGriz (Feb 14, 2019)

Knut:
It's not that I lack confidence with electronics(I've built computers for nearly 20 years,and owned one of the very first home computers-the Commodore VIC-20),it's just that I do not wish to build a Frankenstein's monster like the one that is described in other posts.
I don't like the thought of building something that is not tightly contained in its' own casing.There are not any readily available pre-made casings for a power supply like those, and, since I have cats, and dogs who may decide to chew on any exposed wires while I'm out of the room,for one example,and my layout is currently not permanent(I have to take it up and put it away after a day of use as it gets set up in a bedroom when I want to use it), I absolutely have to have a power setup that is easily disconnected ,and put away after use.
The build your own power supply is not easily compatible with this. That is why I am pursuing other pre-made power options.
Andrew


----------



## 1to3 (Mar 15, 2017)

I have used MRC and had friends use them for garden trains. It might work on a few older locos with no technology in them, but it does not work well on digital circuitry. I know many locos that needed new multi-function decoders due to bad power supplies.


I also have friends that built their own from computer parts. Those work for any brand of basic loco, but not on locos with decoders recognizing DC and DCC. You will likely mess your loco and decoder up.


For info... LGB used to invalidate their warranty on just about any MRC power supply you use. (Not sure if they still do after the changeover to Marklin.) Especially with soundtraxx - which Piko uses - or newer DCC decoders, you are likely to scramble the decoder within a short amount of time with a cheap power supply. (or even an expensive one that gives far too much!) The V, A, and VA all matter - but especially the Voltage going to the loco circuitry. 


A cheap power supply, like MRC and anything with PWM, sends out pulses that look like DCC to a circuit board, even though they are NOT DCC. So the decoder figures its a DCC signal and tries to work, and it doesn't work properly and damages or reprograms it. This is a sure way to ruin a decoder over time. (You might get a month or even a year, but likely not.) 

You need to look for a power supply that has the correct specs and "clean" or "well-regulated" power. The term "well-regulated" actually means the company spent money to make sure it was regulated properly. If it does not say it - or has similar words that are not precise - they are likely playing games and trying to take your money.


----------

