# Solid Metal wheels with centre of axle insulated?



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Does any one make solid metal wheels where the centre section of the axle is insulated but each axle tip is connected electrically to its corresponding wheel?

No ball-bearings and a normal metal wheel price.

Knut


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Some of the mfgrs used to make cast wheels put together like that, Aristo comes to mind... Never seen any 
quality aftermarket wheels done like that though... I made up a few pair setup like that at one time when 
I was playing around with differentialed wheelsets... Don't know of anybody that makes wheelsets like that 
these days though...
Paul R...


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Knut, 

Could be done, I see where you are going with this. Maybe a stub axle with an axle tip hard fixed to the wheel with a short axle stub separated by a plastic tube to space and carry the axle stubs. 

The axle tips in the side frame journals. Would require one unique wheel insert (metal and the plastic spacer). 

Barry


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

I meant to add, by adding a brass tube in the journal box, simple electrical pick up. 

Barry


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

by adding a brass tube in the journal box, simple electrical pick up. 
Bachmann does that on several models - such as the ten-wheeler or the 2-4-2T. The bearings are used to collect power. 

The problem is that they are inherently weaker than hub-insulated wheels and more difficult to make so they don't wobble. When you consider that the wheels have weight on them, the center of the plastic axle tube tries to bend, making the wheels unsteady.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By BarrysBigTrains on 04 May 2012 12:54 PM 
Knut, 

Could be done, I see where you are going with this. Maybe a stub axle with an axle tip hard fixed to the wheel with a short axle stub separated by a plastic tube to space and carry the axle stubs. 

The axle tips in the side frame journals. Would require one unique wheel insert (metal and the plastic spacer).

I meant to add, by adding a brass tube in the journal box, simple electrical pick up. 

Barry 
Yes Barry -

What prompted the question were the RhB Panorama cars made by Kiss that were recently shipped.

The power pick up for the lights is via a set of insulated axles in each bogie, but the axles are only insulated on one side between the wheel and the axle so each bogie will only pick up current from one side of the track even though the equivalent electrical journal pick up is available on both sides.

If a wheel set were available the way I described in my first post, it would be very easy to replace the existing wheel sets, add one more wire from the bogie to the lights in the car and end up with a much more reliable pick up system.


I vaguely remember somebody making their own - basically taking a suitable non-insulated metal wheel set, removing a very short section of the axle and then reassembling everything with a very tight fitting insulated sleeve over the whle length of the inner portion of the axle. 


Knut


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 04 May 2012 04:04 PM 

The problem is that they are inherently weaker than hub-insulated wheels and more difficult to make so they don't wobble. When you consider that the wheels have weight on them, the center of the plastic axle tube tries to bend, making the wheels unsteady. 
True, but for lighting in passenger cars where the weight is not that much, I would have thought somebody could have come up with a viable design. 
I think Brawa did when they were still into Large Scale - need to research that a bit.

Knut


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

I repaired some Aristo metal stub axles with nylon spacers, works great and is very rigid. Aristo uses a brass eyelet which surrounds the stub axles tip to create a path to the track power.


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## Amber (Jul 29, 2011)

If you could make half axles like Athearn does with their diesel engine power truck wheels, and put them together with the nylon sleeve like the picture above, you could pick up the track power off the back of the wheel with a wiper, or even from the inside axle stub with a wiper, although it might be a bit. tricky to get the gauge correct


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks for all te comments so far.

This looks like it will have to be a DIY project.

Michael - what are these pins/screws for?

Are they required to give the wheel/axle combination stability?
I assume the nylon sleeve is a very tight press-fit.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

What prompted the question were the RhB Panorama cars made by Kiss that were recently shipped. 

The power pick up for the lights is via a set of insulated axles in each bogie 
Knut, 

I was curious what they looked like, and found this page: http://michelswunderland.de/solderiron/panos_en.html 

He replaced the wheels with Magnus and seems to have wires to both sides.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Pete,

I know Michel and am in contact with him on and off.

The Magnus wheels he uses are standard ball-bearing wheel sets at 12 Euros a pop - that's 48 Euros per car or around $60.-.
Adds up for a train with six cars.

The normal power pick up of the Kiss cars is via the metal plate on the inside of the bogie side plate.
You can see a small lug on each side - power goes from the wheel to the axle to that metal plate and into the car.
But because the wheels that are shipped with the car are only insulated on one side, between the wheel and the axle, each bogie only picks up power on one side.

If I had a replacement wheel where the centre of the axle was insulated instead, I could pick up power from both sides of each bogie.

I would expect the cost to be around half of what it costs to use ball-bearing wheel sets.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I know Michel and am in contact with him on and off 
I figured you might know him - you (and my VW car salesman) are the only KISS collectors I know of! 

If the car isn't too heavy, I would go ahead and make myself some center-insulated wheels. Epoxy will hold them together - the trick is making a jig that will hold them in exactly the right place as the glue sets. (A block of wood exactly the width of the back-to-back, cut in half with a groove along the center break to hold the axle, should do the trick.) Once they are set, add a little piece of wire to break the insulation to the hub. 
_Hey, I found you some (it had been nagging the back of my memory banks.)_










Center-insulated, and picking up power both sides! (I'm not using the power pickups - there are batteries inside the water tank.)

Those trucks came from an Aristocraft slope-back tender, sold as part of the 0-4-0. [I don't need them, and I have at least one more set. I just need replacements.]


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Those are magnets for chuff trigger, I milled a pocket with tight tolerance and epoxied them in place. 

I purchased the spaceers (maybe nylon) at Home Depot and others at hardware stores, there easy to come by IMO. 

I chucked the spacers in a lathe and used an end-mill to bore the press fit for the stub axles. Easy to set back to back and very solid too. 

Michael


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