# QSI G Wire Questions



## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

I am in the process of installing three QSI Aristo-Craft PnP decoders. I have two working (RS3 & E8). I am considering the G Wire addon.

With G Wire installed can either DC or DCC serve as the power source? If a radio disble swirch is installed and is set to disable the radio, will the decoder then work on DC or DCC?

The very brief G Wire instructions suggest that the answer to both of these questions is "Yes." Is that correct?

Bert


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## John B (Jan 2, 2008)

Tony's Trains is producing the QSI decoder. Call and ask for Tony himself. 

www.tonysdcc.com/contact.htm


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## Bob Small (Jan 3, 2008)

Bert,

If you are using the rails to provide a constant DC, and using the GWire to do the "controlling", then yes.
This is functionally identical to using battery power.

If you are controlling the voltage and polarity of the DC (in other words, using traditional model railway DC power and controller), then no. Switch off the GWire. The decoder will run in analog mode.

If you are using DCC, then switch off the GWire. The decoder is already getting both power and controlling signal from the rails.

Have a look at Greg's site www.elmassian.com . He is using Quantum decoders in Aristo engines on DCC (but I don't think he uses GWire)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe all the statements so far are correct.  My understanding is that as long as the Gwire is plugged in (it uses a ribbon cable), it takes "commands" from the Gwire. I'm not sure what it would take to "disable" it, possibly just interrupting the power to it, but that may take cutting some traces on the board.

When you visit my site, all comments are appreciated, it's meant to answer questions like this that keep popping up.

Here's a direct link to the QSI page: CLICK HERE 
There's also installation details on the Aristo Mallet, Mikado, RS3, and the Accucraft/AML K4 Pacific.

Regards, Greg


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

The instructions for the "G" Wire states: "When using "G"Wire, it is important to disable the Quantum Decoder's "Analog Mode" by programming CV29 values as shown in the table below." (I'm not going to type the table) "Also, power up the throttle before powering up the layout. Caution: if you intend to also use a DCC System to program the Quantum Decoder the "G"Wire" cable must be disconnected!" Basically the answer is NO! If you use the "G"Wire you must disable the basic "Power Pack" Mode. I install the decoder. Then use their Quantum Programer it set the address, diasble the analog mode, and then set the speed table. Then I install the G"Wire" You can install a switch to the "G"Wire that essentually turns it off for programing BUT the instructions tell you to unplug the "G"Wire before programing so I guess you take the risk. I run on battery with the Airwire throttle and while I have never tried it I should be able to program the decoder with the Airwire throttle. The instructions for the "G"Wire are not on the QSI Solutions web site yet and I have mentioned that they aren't there to them. Hopefully the will be posted soon . They are only 2 pages long.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

So, you can turn DC mode on and off via programming commands, either from the AirWire, or DCC on the rails, the crux of the problem is what constitutes "disconnecting" the Gwire. 

I guess it might take some experimentation. If I remember, I'll ask the hardware engineer at QSI Industries... I'm thinking it might be as simple as disconnecting one lead, but will have to find out. 

Regards, Greg


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I purchased a QSI for one of my Malletts' at the SECLSTS...liked the sound, because of the compressure thump...no other, that I know offers that standing sound.

The powers that be at QSI stated, from 2 phone calls that all I need to do is program the decoder like I would the actual Air-Wire decoder....so far I find that NOT to be true....I can't get it to respond to any programming...BUT I programmed another engine, that wasn't on at the time I programmed it and it responds to the engine I was programming.


Preliminary report on the QSI and it functionability is not what I was expecting.

As for a programmer, I am unwilling to plop down the $80 for the computer interface, with it NOT being what I was expecting.....there is no way to check how they set it up at the show for me knowing all MY parms for running.

I  wish I would have spent the money on another Air-Wire board instead./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/pinch.gif

Any suggestions with programming without the computer interface and just the Airwire hand held?

Thanks

Bubba


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback. I am now waiting for a call from QSI Solutions regarding the G Wire and the Quantum Programmer. After re-reading the G Wire instructions, I understand that the decoder's analog (i.e. DC) functionality needs to be turned off for use with G Wire. 

I find the statements that the radio disable switch will let you use the decoder with a DC/DCC system but you must disconnect the G Wire cable to program with a DCC system to be inconsistent. At SELSTS I understood that the radio disable switch would restore DCC system functionality without disconnecting the cable. I hope to get this clarified when QSI Solutions returns my call. 

Bubba, I have the Quantum Programer. I have only used it with my RS3 with mixed results. The QP would read the decoder, but I could not get it to reset the decoder from 3 to the long address that I wanted. Although it seemed to update CVs 17, 18 and 29, when I put the locomotive back on the track the long address and/or CV 29 change didn't take. I tried to use my program track, but my NCE system could not read the decoder. I then took every locomotive except the RS3 off the track and manually reset the CVs using programing on the main. That worked. During all of this, I had lights and smoke switched off. On my RS3 you can't switch off the motors. This may be the problem with the Quantum Programer and the program track. Maybe I'll find out when I work on my E8. It has a motor switch. 

Bert


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have an RS3 (among other locos) with a QSI and I have never had any trouble programming on the main. 

For the program track, you need a booster like the ones Tony sells, virtually all motor/sound decoders need this. 

I likewise have an NCE system. You might use the JMRI program for programming, I have not used it recently, but am told it has the special QSI "indexing" handled, so makes it more convenient. 

Finally I have been told by two people now that the radio "disable" using a switch across the radio disable pads on the Gwire works, so no unplugging the cable. 

Hope this helps, 

Regards, Greg


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Bubba

I am using the RF1300 Airwire remote to 'talk/control' my loco with Q-wire.

After re-reading your posting, I checked and used OPS Mode to have
the loco to 'Play Build Information' and the executed several other functions. 

I assume that you can use the remote to move the loco/bell/whistle but your 
having trouble with the POM functions?  Is that correct?

The_Other_Ray


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg, thanks for your further feedback. I spoke with an HO modeler yesterday who was very positive about using the JMRI programmer (DecoderPro) to program QSI decoders. I guess I'll have to get a booster and give it a try. 

Bubba, I got the G Wire working in my E8 on the first try. Very impressive. I haven't tried to do any programming with my RF1300 and probably won't if I get a radio disable switch installed. 

Bert


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

I have it working I just can't seem for it to take a different loco address.....when I purchased the system the guys at the show were very informative.....but when I called the actual QSI business...I didn't seem to get the information I was expecting.....I am being nice....

The instructions I recieved were not very informative...so I really do not know what I can program with..I have a T9000 throttle and nothing from QSI to tweak the system with, and I do not fully understand what having a radio dissable switch really means as I use the simplistic T9000 throttle to program my needs with the Air-wire decoder(s).  
My needs with the Air-wire system are very low as all I need is step programming, loco addresses and freq, and of course the light circuit, which all mentioned are VERY simple to master!

SO that being said I could use ANY direction as to the radio switch and its purpose and how to or what I need to programm the G wire/QSI system...as stated before I am quite reluctant to ploop down $80 more to use the copmputer interface, as it uses a programming track, and I do not use a programming track with any of my engines as they are either Airwire, or  RCS battery powered....just my LGB MTS uses a programming track....and again MTS is very easy to use.


Oh and Ray..I was never instructed that I could programm with the T9000.
Thanks
Bubba


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

I have 4 QSI/g-Wire combo units working with a T9000. For power I use a Aristo Elite. I just got hold of 10 Digitrax DG583S boards for some of my other loco's. My question is can I use the QSI/g-Wire with the T9000 on the same track as the Digitrax. As I understand it the Digitrax will be using a Booster that puts out AC. Will this still be okay to power the QSI's. The Digitrax will need to work from a cab/command station/ booster setup like the MRC-Pro10. Will they all work together like this. Also just an additional question if the booster puts out AC and it goes between the command station and the track would it possible to use a old Lionel ZW transformer rather then buying a booster. My mother-in-law used to work at the Lionel factory in Hillside NJ and bought 2 ZW's at the company store. They have been sitting in box's for almost 45 years never used. Just wondering if this might work. Thanks Jack


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jack, if you run DCC, then you are running track power (by definition)... it is a "square wave" AC modulated in such a manner that the variation in the square wave is the "data".

I think you are trying to say you want to use track power to run a QSI but want the QSI to respond to commands from the AirWire...

I do not know what happens if you have DCC to the track inputs and "DCC like" signals from the Gwire radio receiver.

Better ask QSI, but overall it sounds like a bad idea....

If you would be running track power, then just use a "normal" DCC system and use wireless throttles like the NCE system, or any other system. 

Regards, Greg


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Bert/Bubba


Here is how I just changed my Loco address using the RF1300
remote from short addr 3 to long addr 3985 on the layout. 

Afterwards, just to be sure that the extended addr 'stuck', I turned off the DC
power for 30 min before lit off the NCE system to be sure that the
extended addr was also usable on my DCC setup.


#3#       Change remote to short address 3
(Then change throttle position to ensure your using short addr.)


Enter OPS mode < push the 9 key >
                  (direction leds start flashing)
*17*          Select CV 17
#207#         MSB's of long addr 3985
*18*          Select CV 18
#145#         LSB's of long addr 3985
*29*          Select CV 29
#34#           Enable extend addr and 28/128 step
              QSI board now spoke "CV18 3985" 
Exit OPS mode < push the 9 key>
                  (direction leds stop flashing)

#3985#      Change remote to the extended address
Then change throttle position to ensure your using extended address
and play with the trains using the extended address./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gif


I did *ASK* QSI_Soulitions to update the DCC Reference Manual
Appendix III for the MTS users./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


The_Other_Ray


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Jack

Since Greg did comment on part of your posting, I will pick up another part.

The Booster is an active device (aka Amp) but does require a power source/supply.
It "?MAYBE?" possible to use ONE ZW to supply that power. So sell one to fund
the purchase of the DCC booster.

The_Other_Ray


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## blattan (Jan 4, 2008)

The_Other_Ray, thanks for the RF1300 tutorial. I have one more decoder/G wire to install. I'll give it a try. 

Bert


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Posted By bdp3wsy on 03/14/2008 2:49 PM
 Also just an additional question if the booster puts out AC and it goes between the command station and the track would it possible to use a old Lionel ZW transformer rather then buying a booster. My mother-in-law used to work at the Lionel factory in Hillside NJ and bought 2 ZW's at the company store. They have been sitting in box's for almost 45 years never used. Just wondering if this might work. Thanks Jack

*Jack, Lionel O gauge locomotives run on AC not DC power like our large scale trains. Those ZW transformers are a very popular item. I think you would be pleasantly surprised if you put one up on EBay for auction, especially if you had the original boxes and manual.

Go to EBay and type in Lionel ZW Transformer in the Toys and Hobby Section. You could buy lots of bosters and QSI stuff for the price of one of these.*


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

OK, I talked to Tony's Trains and they said yes if you use a cab/command/booster/amp setup it puts out AC on the rails and the digital signal rides on it. The QSI will work on either AC or DC the board if it detects DC changes it to AC. But they also said Airwire T9000/QSI/G-Wire will work with either AC or DC direct to the rails but not with the cab/com/boost/amp setup and working the same time. Something didn't sound right. If DCC puts out a fixed AC voltage on the rails why couldn't this power the Airwire/QSI/G-Wire at the sametime. They said when you plug in the G-Wire it cuts off any signals from the track. So off I went to friends that runs a DCC MRC-10 Amp with one of my engines with the T9000/QSI/G-Wire setup for a test. And guess what he could control his engines and I could control mine. He was running 2 trains as a main line and I used mine as shifter accross the 2 main lines inbetween the trains passing. We did this for over 2 hours with no problems. Now we are going to swap out his amp and wire in the ZW. Both AC right. He said I get to go first. Also tried the ZW wired directly to the track with the throtle open and the T9000/QSI/G-Wire, this also worked. Just need to figure out the Amp rating for each of the 4 outputs on the ZW because this transformer was setup to control 4 trains in its orginal configuration. Will let you know what happens. Oh yes Greg great site you are the new George S. Jack


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## N1CW (Jan 3, 2008)

Jack

From related topic about the Q-wire disable switch, I posted:
"G-wire DCC vs track signal DCC.................G-wire RULES..............
DCC ProCab was set to fwd ~10smph and the Airwire 1300 to rev ~20smph.
Changing the G-wire disable switch toggled the speed and direction 
per the 'active' remote.....







"  

re: ZW
From the ZW service manual, it lists the total rating only @275watts peak and
a continously 180watts at 14amps. There is no seperate rating for each leg.

The_Other_Ray


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## Bob Small (Jan 3, 2008)

Just a clarification on the GWire radio disable switch.

It DOESN'T disable the radio. The radio receiver is always powered on (as long as the GWire is plugged into the decoder, and the decoder is powered).

What the "radio disable" switch does is to switch off the DCC signals.
Then, as others have pointed out, the decoder will use the "other" DCC signal (ie the track DCC signal)

So I see the use of this switch in two situations

1) so you can switch between AirWire throttle (switch off) and track DCC throttle (switch on)

and

2) if you prefer to use a programming track for programming the decoder instead of doing it through the AirWire throttle, switch on.

The terminology may be confusing. You turn the "radio disable" switch ON to turn the DCC signal OFF.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, enabling the disable switch disables commands from the radio. Sounds funny. 

I would not say "turn the DCC signal off" since what you are actually doing is causing the QSI to switch "where" it looks for "commands", DCC or otherwise. 

Disabling the radio disables commands from it. The QSI would then look for DCC signals from the track power inputs. (DCC from rails was always on, for example). 

Nice that the QSI works so easily, since on rare occasions, you need a DCC programming track. 

Regards, Greg


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## Bob Small (Jan 3, 2008)

Hi Greg,

The main point I wanted to get across was that the radio disable switch doesn't actually turn of the R/C receiver. What it actually does is to ground the control pin on the output buffers which cut off the DCC signal.

As you point out, the decoder then uses the track DCC signal.

In combination with the track/battery switch in the Aristo engines, it gives multiple power and control options with PnP simplicity.

All in all, a clever idea.


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