# The Rocket rolls again



## Bob Baxter (Jan 3, 2008)

For several years I've wondered whether the plastic static model of the Stephenson Rocket could be adapted to run on 45 mm track. I ran across a kit at a swap meet and took it home. The model is 1-26th scale and the section of plastic rail is about 3/8 inch wider than the 45 mm rails. Can I use a driver from a "G" gauge loco and position it so that it will straddle the rails without tangling with the boiler? As it turned out, it IS possible.

Someone posted pictures of a project a while back that showed a Bachmann loco wheel that had the plastic filler removed. This results in a wheel with slimmer spokes. An axle and drive wheels from a late version 10 wheeler was found in my wheel box and work began. Some filing reduced the crank pin bolster to make the spoke look like all the others. The hole was filled with putty. .This is the first picture (taken 11-15-08) which tells me when this project started in earnest.








The plastic spacer that separates the two wheels broke up (Chinese plastic) so I made a new one of square styrene tubing and some tiny brass nuts and bolts. There was need to cut away some of the frame and rebuild the journal to accept the larger axle shaft.The wheel JUST cleared the boiler.










The only place that a motor would possibly fit was in the tender. I chose the Hartland power unit from a Woody that has sat unbuilt for several years. Carbon pickups were installed above the axles. The motor stands erect and goes into a hole that was cut in the bottom of the water tank. The wheels in the tender are Hartland's. The spoked units were turned from the all plastic wheels from a Bachmann 10 wheeler (battery version from long ago) painted and glued onto the solid wheels. 

















A styrene tube and cap was fitted inside the tank and lead shot filled the tank. That added enough weight to provide traction.


A number of the parts that came from the original model were worked into the operation. The side rods, crosshead and guides all work after a bit of adjustment.









Just enough weight was added to the boiler above the driver axle to assure smooth operation. Notice that the drive wheel on this side was worn to the point that it shows a brass finish. I don't have a replacement. If anyone has a spare wheel from one of the latest versions Id be happy to accept it and replace the one that is on there now. I hope this inspires someone else to do this job for themselves. I'm amazed at how well it runs. If you'd like to see it run, you can find it on the Door Hollow Shortline website. The link is in my signature space. Thanks for your interest.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob,here are some pix of the OS live steam Rocket's valve gear if you want to fabricate one for yours. (please ignore the dust bunnies) It's just a bunch of rods and levers with handles. A visually fascinating nightmare, but quite simple to build (3/32" square basswood and 1/16" brass rod and a bit of plastic tube for bearings would do it....) I think the engine looks kind of naked without it. 

Left side showing the rods. the lower end is two concentric rocker shafts behind the large water pipe. The reverse gear itself is a simple shifting eccentric set up between two collars on the drive axle 









Upper end, again concentric rocker shafts with hand levers... 









Kind of fuzzy, but looking over top of the tender. This shows the upper pipes that connect the firebox to the boiler, and the huge throttle valve. The steam gauge would not be there on the original, it used a long pipe along side the chimney with a pointer and scale at the top.


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## Bob Baxter (Jan 3, 2008)

Mik, Thank you for the pictures. They're in my file and if I ever finish the passenger car that I'm building to follow the loco I'll add some of the details.

What is OS? What scale is that thing?

Do you have pictures of the coach I see behind the loco? I can't seem to find any decent pictures of the car that is in the museum in York. I'm building the coach from this picture.









Dave Crocker and I agree that your "unsupervised children" notice is our favorite!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

OS is a Japanese company that makes top of the line glow engines for R/C aircraft, and VERY spendy bolt together live steam locomotive kits. The Rocket is 1:12 scale (4-3/4" gauge), coal fired, will pull something like 180 lbs, and has never been run -- and belongs to a customer who asked me to hold it "until he remodeled his vacation house" because his wife found out that he bought it -- that was something like 8 years ago...... 

To give you an idea of size, the Lonergan whistle on the right is 5 inches in diameter 









The matching first class riding car you asked to see... Third class is the open carwith red trim in your pics.


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## Bob Baxter (Jan 3, 2008)

Information about the details of the Rocket is a bit sparse. I get the feeling that the loco didn't stay in the form that we see modeled for very long. It worked very well in the Raintree Trials but they apparently started making "improvements" very quickly. They changed the angle of the cylinders and stuck a modern style smokebox on the front. The final version, or what's left of it, is in the Science museum in London and it is anything but pretty.








The loco in York is a reproduction of the original. I can understand why no one has made a model of this one.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a video someplace of an OS model running. The inclined cylinders made it waddle like a goose. As I understand it they layed the cylinders down because the motion made the crews seasick.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

That was neat Bob, liked the web site also. Your work is awesome! Aster made some cars to go with their live steam Grasshopper.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Cool. I'll have to get mine back out to work on it. That heartland drive suits it nicely.


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## rangerjoel (Jan 4, 2008)

Yet another loco to add to my “to do” list. 
Thanks for the post. 
Joel


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bob,

Thanks for posting the build pics and video. That is really something different! I doubt I'd ever have thought to put spokes in front of a plate wheel, but I can sure use that idea!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Bob,

Can you point me at a link where this engine is described? I have a number of questions. One is, I don't see a connecting rod on the wheel--I assume they just left it off, or was the thing turned into a crank-axle arrangement? Another is (and admittedly stupid) --but design data's hard to come by--what exactly is the gainer on having a smoke box, besides allowing the cylinder discharge to act as a draft inducer?

Thanks for the pixes, BTW.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Torb,

Is this engine still commercially available, in something near unto 20.3? (NOT steam! I already know I can't affort that!)

Les


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob, 

Nice job! 

For coaches, try searching for _Liverpool and Manchester Railway Coaches_, or similar. (You have to use the right lingo ;-) 

I turned up this: 










from *http://www.victorianweb.org/technology/railways/p2.html* 

There's a third class carriage in the York National Railway Museum on page *http://www.victorianweb.org/technology/railways/46.html*

And whle digging around for models for Les, I found pics of the Hornby 3 1/2" gauge loco and coach:


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Is this engine still commercially available, in something near unto 20.3?


Les, 

This is a standard gauge engine, so if it was 1:20.3 scale, it would need 70 mm std gauge track. For our 'large scale', gauge-1, 45mm track it ought to be nearer 1:32nd scale. Here's a 3 1/2" gauge model that must be about 1:16th scale: *PPS Steam Models Second Hand Page*.

OcCre's model is 1:24th, which makes it a bit bigger than scale, is said to be for 45mm track, and comes with a motorisation kit. 
See *http://www.occre.com/index.php?option=com_productos&task=showProduct&idproducto=95* 










Historicships.com in Florida sells it. See *http://www.historicships.com/MiscItems/RocketLocomotive/RocketLocomotive.htm * 
This Euro site has a bunch of photos of it under construction - neat! *Guinea Hobbies, Vizcaya, Spain.*


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

What's wrong with this picture? At first I thought they had made a HUGE error and put the crosshead pump on the wrong side (the loop of pipe sticking up in the middle of everything is the pump's discharge) -- then I noticed the engine's name was spelled something like TEKCOR, strange that...

Les, the remains of the Rocket are incomplete -- for instance the entire firebox except the backhead appears to be missing, as well as the connecting rods. Museums are kind of funny, and feel it more important to preserve or 'conserve' the original fabric in the incomplete state in which it was acquired, to them replicating the missing parts or doing anything resembling a restoration would absolutely destroy what they feel is the historical value of the piece.... Even if by doing so it leads to misinterpretation by the 'unwashed masses'. In this case, I think a quarter sized, sectioned model beside the conserved original would be the best way to show off it's features... but it isn't my call

Bob, one note on the coach, I don't know if it was a feature of the original design, or something OS cooked up, but - on the car I have here - compressing the buffers applies the brakes


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks, Pete! I went to the OcCre site, where the specs indicated the gauge was 65mm. Or were they taking the crankpins into account? Didn't look so, from the picture.

Les


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

MOdel Expo carries the street car. I wrote them about the motorisation kit, which they do not carry. They responded that they found it's quality to not be worth what they wanted for it, so do not carry it.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Pete,

I went and looked at it, and it's a steamer gauged at 3-1/2". That sorta lets me out. BUT, I looked around and got some dims from either that site or another, and I bet it wouldn't be all that hard to fab up. The kit out of Florida sells for $139, not at all bad when you consider all the thinking is done for you, and the parts are right there to assemble. They even offer a motorization kit for the tender, which is in the $90 range. Scratchbuilding one seems my best avenue--_if _I could find a pic of the controls, which the static models all seem to lack. Compared to the one shown in the museum, the models' operating controls are bare. On an open-cab engine, I think that's a serious drawback.

Well, I'll keep it in the back of my mind--I have the site in my folder now--and see how the summer goes.

Thanks for your efforts.

Les


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

"controls"???? This is one of the first successful commercial locos..so they are spartan and dead simple... There is a bypass valve for the pump. And a foot operated reverser on the left side of the footplate -- push it down and it shifts the eccentrics to engage the collar for reverse -- let it up, and with the help of a spring, they slide over to engage the collar to go forwards. The throttle is the lever in the middle above the firebox (It's still in place on the original if you look). Brakes? there ain't none. Pressure 'gauge' is this loooong pipe beside the stack which has a scale on top and a weighted plunger with a pointer (the Bourden tube hadn't been invented yet). Two brass faucet looking things on the side of the boiler are your water level trycocks. The two brass things on the cylinder heads are your cylinder lubricators. the long lever with a weight hanging on the end is the safety valve.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's a 3 1/2" gauge model that must be about 1:16th scale: *PPS Steam Models Second Hand Page*.






The 3-1/2"gauge Hornby model was/is a disaster from the word go (I imported a couple for resale years ago).... All the money they spent on it nearly wrecked the company when it flopped. Even with an unprototypical 2:1 planetary reduction built into the drivers it could barely pull itself and one car. The small butane tank and inefficient boiler meant it had a really crappy run time. The 2" (yes, INCH) long sectional plastic track was a joke. AND the little plastic butane tanks are now made from near unobtanium. Because some enterprising feller bought up all the remaining spares off Hornby for a song, then crushed most of them so the rest would be worth more.....


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 04/01/2009 7:17 PM
"controls"???? This is one of the first successful commercial locos..so they are spartan and dead simple...

/// Yup, provided you know what to look for....

There is a bypass valve for the pump.

/// I have to assume you mean the water pump/injector pump, which isn't shown anywhere--or I don't recognize it when I'm looking at it (not impossible). The bypass valve for the pump ... does what? Recirculates the water back to the tender?


And a foot operated reverser on the left side of the footplate -- push it down and it shifts the eccentrics to engage the collar for reverse -- let it up, and with the help of a spring, they slide over to engage the collar to go forwards.

///I'll go back and look at the museum piece. The one in the museum is missing the con rod and some other stuff, the models are too small to see. Anyway, I've never even seen a diagram of this arrangement. I found one on 'Gabs', and intend to mock one up to see how they work, the drawing isn't clear.

The throttle is the lever in the middle above the firebox (It's still in place on the original if you look).

/// Yeah, I saw that one on the steam model someone posted.

Brakes? there ain't none.

/// Brakes just screw up a clean design.

Pressure 'gauge' is this loooong pipe beside the stack which has a scale on top and a weighted plunger with a pointer (the Bourden tube hadn't been invented yet).

/// O-okay, on early American engines, many are shown with 2 long pipes located on the spine of the boiler. The better engravings show wisps of vapor at the mouths. I thought they might be safety valves, since one is usually over where I take the crownsheet to be, and the other is sometimes on the steam dome, or just in front/behind it. They end in a trumpet-mouth, and they're tall. Know what these are? Remember the pic of the Crampton I posted the other day? It as two of 'em.

Two brass faucet looking things on the side of the boiler are your water level trycocks.

/// Didn't notice them.

The two brass things on the cylinder heads are your cylinder lubricators.

/// Wondered what those were. All the oilers I know of have a glass in them. WHich brings to mind: Where's the lube reservoir?

the long lever with a weight hanging on the end is the safety valve.

/// Didn't notice it, either, on models or the museum piece.

Thanks for the hedzup. I'll go study those pixes a little more closely. This actually seems like it'd be a fairly simple engine to scratchbuild.

I don't know if you read my post to Pete, but he put me onto a website that sells 'em in 1:24 ga for $139, + $90 for the motor for the tender (has solid brass wheels). I've been thinking that that isn't such an outrageous price when you consider all the hard part--the thinking and research is done and all one has to do is assemble it. BTW WHat is the exchange rate between a Euro and a US dollar? Do you happen to know? There's one in Spain you ought to take a look at. Live steam. I think it's Spain--I've looked at a lot of stuff tonight. The site is CeCo, or something like that. I'm pretty tired just now.

Les


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2009)

The Rocket has the most detailed description of any loco I have ever seen. When the National Railway Museum restored their Rocket, a couple of people did a detailed analysis of each part and hole. They published the results in a book titled 'The Engineering and History of the Rocket' by Michael R Baile and John P Glithero. The loco was completely taken apart and viewed. Most parts are photographed and many have drawings made of them. Along with the pictures and drawings are a analysis of the sequence of events that could have caused that particular part. The book was published in 2000 so is still available. ISBN 1 900747 18 9


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## Ray Dunakin (Jan 6, 2008)

Nice work, Bob!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Many thanks for the ISBN, Dennis. I'll see if it's doable.

Les


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

then I noticed the engine's name was spelled something like TEKCOR, strange that... 



Is this better? 


where the specs indicated the gauge was 65mm


Les, I think you need new specs, or you need to get some sleep!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Heheheh... It took me a minute to realize the pic was printed backwards. And yeah, some sleep before posting last night was sure needed.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 04/02/2009 8:06 AM
then I noticed the engine's name was spelled something like TEKCOR, strange that... 



Is this better? 



Pete, here is the thing, and feel free to tell me I'm nuts, BUT 1. This is supposed to be a rather expensive commercial SCALE model, not something some guy kludged together in his basement, or a cheap "toy" intended primarily to amuse children. 2. In the SCALE model world it is taken for granted that somebody actually did some research and got the details reasonably correct, unless there was a cost, structural or material limiting reason that they couldn't - or - the historical data was incomplete or wrong. 3. Someone at the company proofed that advertising picture, more likely more than one, and it wasn't caught, yet it was a rather glaring error to some yahoo from the sticks that mostly just plays with toy choo-choos...

Which brings me to #4 - If they overlooked THAT, then what else did they miss/ get wrong? (besides having no valve gear, the pump discharge pipe coming from the middle of the cylinder head, lacking much of the piping. etc.) Followed quickly by #4a - If they are that sloppy about details, then how do they justify $140 for the damned thing?


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 04/02/2009 10:37 AM
Posted By Pete Thornton on 04/02/2009 8:06 AM
then I noticed the engine's name was spelled something like TEKCOR, strange that... 



3. Someone at the company proofed that advertising picture, more likely more than one, and it wasn't caught, yet it was a rather glaring error to some yahoo from the sticks that mostly just plays with toy choo-choos...









*HEY! JUST A DAM' MINUTE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Les, I meant ME. lol


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Definitely nice for a change. Very interesting on making it an operational model. Later RJD


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Dennis,

I went to Amazon and looked up that book. ~$55 incl shipping, and softcover.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

This is supposed to be a rather expensive commercial SCALE model, not something some guy kludged together in his basement, 


Mik, 
I think you are expecting a bit more than OcCre intend. For a start, I don't think $140 is 'rather expensive' for such a model - a couple of freight cars will cost you that much. It's just a wooden kit. The 'scale' bit is also dubious, as a 45mm gauge model of a standard gauge engine in 1/24th scale is a bit suspect. 

And the reversed photo is typical of a small 'craft' shop that doesn't employ a marketing department. We're lucky they have a website with pictures!


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## Bob Baxter (Jan 3, 2008)

It seems that when I step away from the computer for a couple of days, everything breaks loose. We have a number of people here who are well versed in digging up detailed information, something I haven't mastered yet. The control and operational details that can be added to a model, especially one in 1:26th scale are beyond my capacities. I'm happy enough that I was able to find ways to make it run down 45 mm rails. The reaction of the visitors at the train shows is quite positive and satisfying. 

A special thanks goes to Pete Thornton for finding very nice pictures of the coach that the Rocket pulled. They will be very helpful. My absence from the computer is a result of a fence and gate rebuilding project that has had me either working or napping for the last two days. It's supposed to be raining a bit today so maybe some work can be done on the coach. Those pictures have me wondering whether some plastic wagon wheels can be adapted to the Hartland "Woodie" power unit rather than the solid wheels I was planning to use. Those big spoked wheels in the pictures sure look good. 

I'm happy to see so many folks inspired to look into that loco as a modeling project.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Bob Baxter on 04/03/2009 8:22 AM

A special thanks goes to Pete Thornton for finding very nice pictures of the coach that the Rocket pulled. 

I'm happy to see so many folks inspired to look into that loco as a modeling project.








Bob,

It's encouraging to know I'm not the only one who works awhile and naps awhile.









Pete is one very nice guy, very helpful.

I'm inspired--so long as we're talking NOT-steam--I just can't go there. The electric version ... I'm considering deeply. If you look at my post above, there's a book about the restoration of it on Amazon, if you're interested.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 04/03/2009 7:46 AM. ....For a start, I don't think $140 is 'rather expensive' for such a model - a couple of freight cars will cost you that much.....

And the reversed photo is typical of a small 'craft' shop that doesn't employ a marketing department. We're lucky they have a website with pictures


I guess it depends on where you're from. Around here $140 is my take home pay for an entire WEEK or almost 1/3 of my disability.... And it ISN'T " typical of a small 'craft' shop", it's typical of larger businesses, or ones on the verge of failing to be sloppy, not small shops that actually take pride in their work. 

Expect too much? I simply expect fair value. While we as a nation seem to have become willing to accept mediocrity as 'normal', I generally don't. A bit off topic, but there are restaurant chainss I will not patronize anymore, not because I didn't like the food, but because I felt the service there was sloppy and slow.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

If I remember correctly--and I was really tired that night--the motor unit for that engine is another $90. It is shown with brass wheels, pretty un-scale looking, so the total cost would be upwards of $230, and that's pinching my pocketbook pretty hard.

In my case, I can get along well enough, until some unexpected medical costs pop up, like last month: $300, wholly unexpected. My wife has _no _insurance, and won't be eligible for any until she's 65, another two years. By then, who can tell _what_ sort of mess we'll have, what with the Universal Health Care scheme.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

the motor unit for that engine is another $90

Les, 
One of the vendors indicated it wasn't worth it and they weren't stocking it - I have no personal experience. However, the 'motorisation kit' always costs twice as much as the original static model. (I used to motorize the old Rivarossi O scale kits.) 


I guess it depends on where you're from. 

Mik, I guess it does, and gentlemen can always agree to disagree, right? I usually take the attitude that a model out of the mainstream (I think you'd agree that this spanish-made wooden model fits that description) will cost a little more. 

Incidentally, the quoted Euro prices include 15% VAT (16% in Spain.) For export, you can pay less - but more shipping. 


what with the Universal Health Care scheme

Les - you trying to start a whole new argument ???


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