# USA Trains PA1 and LGB R3 turnouts



## dtetreault (Jan 23, 2008)

Not a good combination. I purchased a PA1 during a weak moment on Ebay. Tonight I finished converting it to trailing car battery power and tried to run it on my layout







. It does not like my LGB R3 turnouts and my whole layout has R3 curves & turnouts which can't be changed for larger radii. I guess I have an expensive shelf queen.
Dennis


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By dtetreault on 21 Apr 2011 06:11 PM 
Not a good combination. I purchased a PA1 during a weak moment on Ebay. Tonight I finished converting it to trailing car battery power and tried to run it on my layout







. It does not like my LGB R3 turnouts and my whole layout has R3 curves & turnouts which can't be changed for larger radii. I guess I have an expensive shelf queen.
Dennis 


It's the switch design more so than the radius, (also consider upgrading or removing the PA's sliders)
I use Train Li USA R4's (formerly = to LGB R3 but nomenclature was changed to reflect the radius in feet now) 
in my rail yard and all my engines (Aristo Craft Mallet, Dash-9, E8, SD45) navigate it with no problems whatsoever.
They will fit in the same space as your LGB R3 and give you a much better operational experience.

Ron

Train Li R4 switch (formerly R3) Click Me


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

That locomotive should be able to work with 8' diameter stuff, but you might want to regauge your wheels and correct the sloppy dimensions of the LGB switch. LGB products are designed to be flange-bearing frogs, but with the deeper flanges of LGB stuff, not the smaller flanges of USAT. 

Regards, Greg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

What's happening when your PA tries to go through the switch? Does it derail? Does it just stop? Does it jump?


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## dtetreault (Jan 23, 2008)

Mark,
Sometimes it will derail the floppy truck and sometimes it will run ok. I have several R3 turnouts that have the divergent side on the mainline and it doesn't seem to like that.

Dennis


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## dtetreault (Jan 23, 2008)

Ron,
Those Train-Li turnouts look nice, but 2 of them would cost me more than I paid for the PA1







.
Dennis


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis,

Is it always the floppy truck that derails? Is it the lead wheel or the trailing wheel that has the problem? I don't know what your railroad is like, but can watch the wheels going through the frog to see if it is riding up on something? I spoke with a gentleman years ago who had similar problems with these engines and turnouts. From what I recall, his would derail the trailing floppy wheel. As Greg mentioned, it could be the wheels are too narrow or the LGB switch itself. 

You may be able to modify your trucks to make them rigid, but I don't know what that does to the turning radius requirement. Several users have 'fixes' for how to modify these trucks to keep that third axle from derailing. These range from removing the drive axle to the floppy axle to putting a brass plate on the bottom of the truck to make it rigid. But you might want to be sure that the sliders aren't causing a problem, too. I suspect that when you did the battery conversion, you removed the sliders.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

I just sold my two USA PA's but ran them on my layout frequently with no issues. All my R3 turnouts are LGB and I never had an issue. Not saying it isn't your turnout but just my observation running my USA PA's through LGB turnouts. The layout has four R3 turnouts in both directions. 

I do recall the PA's came with an extra set of sliders/instructions for use with "some manufacturers turnouts". These where in the box in a seperate bag. I never had to use them but I remember the instructions stating I might need them. I'd try removing your sliders and see what happens.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

This is here-say and I cannot confirm it but someone told me that the PA-1's will run better through turnouts etc. if the extra driving wheels are disabled and free rolling.

I am not clear on this but perhaps someone who knows more than I do about this can confirm it.

How many of your PA-1 wheels are powered?

I can check mine and see how well they run on my crawl space layout as it has 100% LGB R1 and R3 turnouts but I have not run the PA/PB-1's on it yet.

Like you, the eBay prices on the PA/PB-1's were too good to pass up and I bought several. I have not run them much yet as I have been extending my layout. I bought the UP and MoPac PA/PB-1's (probably from the same eBay seller as you did). I expect to run mine a LOT once I get the layout up and running.

You also might want to see if your PA-1's are having problems with all of your LGB turnouts or just with a few. Over the years I have found that just swapping a few LGB turnouts has resolved a lot of my problems.

Good luck,

Jerry


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

Not only the PA, but the SD 70 Mac has the same floppy truck.
I completely remove the drive shaft and gears, allowing the front and rear to swing freely and act like "pilots".
It has no effect on pulling power.
This may not correct your switch problem as I use R5's. I also run battery, so the sliders are gone as well.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If the PA is new, quite often the sliding mechanism for the "floppy truck" has friction and needs lubrication.

This made a world of difference in my locos. It was not lubricated from the factory on any of the 5 PA's I own. 

The symptom of this is that the truck cannot swing side to side easily and will derail on switches. 

Check my web site for the easy fix.This could be your entire problem. 

It's under "swivelling axle trucks" near the bottom of the page: *http://www.elmassian.com...trong>**

Regards, Greg*


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## dtetreault (Jan 23, 2008)

Thanks for the ideas. I will try some of them this weekend if the weather holds out. 
Dennis


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Have you tried this? Helps LGBs and works like a charm on my AristoCraft 10-foot diameter turnouts.


LGB 1600 tips


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 22 Apr 2011 01:17 PM 
Have you tried this? Helps LGBs and works like a charm on my AristoCraft 10-foot diameter turnouts.



I started to ask what it was but then I noticed your link.

"Todd Brody found that he could reface a damaged plastic guard rail by bending a 1/64" thick by 3/32" wide brass strip around it as shown in the photo. He found specific instances where this improved tracking. This does get rid of the [/b]*glue problem* and the piece is completely reversible. Note that brass strip is usually die cut such that the edges on one side are rounded and the edges on the other side are sharper. The rounded edge should be the one facing the wheels. [/b]
*I've used this trick in one specific place where a particular car would derail trailing point from the diverging route every time. This was my **Aristo Streamliner Track Cleaning Car** which places very large torsion forces on the trucks. The lead wheel set would derail in the frog every time until the guard rail was tightened to bring the wheel back into line through the whole frog. I placed a 0.015" x 0.200" styrene shim behind the brass strip to tighten it up just a little more. Now the car gets through that turnout without derailing every time"* 
Leave it to George (the Master) to have the solution on his website and true to form George is quick to give credit to where the ideas came from.

Jerry


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not to "derail" the thread, but an additional tip on the Aristo turnouts, that might be applicable to the LGB, the guard rail us usually lower than the stock rail. This can lead to allowing the flange to ride up on the guard rail if you have finer scale flanges, like the new Aristo SS wheels. 

The solution is to make the shim level with the top of the stock rail. 

Regards, Greg


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