# Southern Pacific 18



## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

This is the next project. Don't hold your breath, it'll be a while till it's done. Like Tank Engine #3, I'm producing a full set of plans, available to all. The process videos will still be detailed but not as much as before. The basic stuff will be skipped over, or I may talk concept and strategy rather than step by step (if you need that, just compare your part to something in Tank Engine #3). I have two drawing sets completed as of now but only one built. The drive wheel set is first. I'll be posting one chapter per day. Plans available here: Public Plans - Google Drive


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

In my first post, I forgot to mention that I got the chance to see SP18 in person in her shed in Independence California this past December. The study was really short, maybe 2 hours max but it's better than nothing. Here's the full photo set: Photos from December 2020 Visit - Google Drive


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## Royce (Sep 16, 2013)

So great to see someone paying attention to number 18. I fully support your project. Looking forward to see it develop.


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## Royce (Sep 16, 2013)

Also, if there is a hole in your info/pics let me know as I have a bit of info on this loco/tender.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Thank you. I'm after any scrap of information I can get. I live over 2,000 miles away from SP18 so I can't just take measurements whenever I like. I bought these two books for this project and have a copy of every good and terrible photo available from Google. Before making the next drawing sets, I'll post images here of my CAD model and perhaps you can critique. If you have any CAD software, or even a CAD viewer, I can send just about any file type needed.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## Royce (Sep 16, 2013)

Beautiful job on your drivers. I'm in the process of having driver centers made from solid models done in Solidworks. Can't wait to get them. Can't really do much more on the frame without them.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Cool! I put a lot of thought into coming up with a process that would actually work "when the cutters (rubber) meets the metal (road)". Shapeways stainless/bronze material is ideal for being (relatively) inexpensive but it's yellowish in color, no biggie for areas being painted but a problem for the tires which I really really really wanted to be grey/silver. Also, the stainless/bronze material absolutelly cannot be cut with HSS tools. A real problem for doing the tread profile. As such, I went down the "wheel & tire" route rather than the "solid wheel" route. When I have the next model ready I'll send you a file. I'm running SolidWorks 2019.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

That's it on postings for now. Though of course I'll continue to check for replys. Next up for the garage is the Axle Pump (that drawing is complete) but before that I have some upgrades to the lathe to be completed. They shouldn't take too long, but hey, that's what happens when you buy a new lathe and then immediately chuck it into the deep end (of a 5 year project). I did a bunch of work on it when it first arrived but with me getting to know it better a few more issue have surfaced. See you later,

~Sean


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## pjpickard (Feb 21, 2021)

Looking forward to this and really nice of you to share the drawings!


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## bille1906 (May 2, 2009)

Sean
I may have missed this but what material are you using for your tires


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## Royce (Sep 16, 2013)

Hi Sean. I'm planning on "blackening" the driver centers and turning my own tires out of some steel tubing I got on ebay. And Shapeways did not produce an acceptable master for me. Went to Pacific Locomotive Works for all my wheels.

royce


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

bille1906 said:


> Sean
> I may have missed this but what material are you using for your tires


I probably didn't mention it in the process video because that information is in the drawing set (see page 4 and page 16). I used 2.375 OD .25 wall low carbon steel pipe sourced from Online Metals.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Royce said:


> Hi Sean. I'm planning on "blackening" the driver centers and turning my own tires out of some steel tubing I got on ebay. And Shapeways did not produce an acceptable master for me. Went to Pacific Locomotive Works for all my wheels.
> 
> royce


Interesting, I'm curious what was wrong. I actually made 8 wheels. One failed attempt at combining wheel and tire into a single print, one complete prototype wheel minus the paint and the six that will end up on the finished locomotive. The prototype helped me dial in my process for best results. There was also one print I messed up on during the machining, so perhaps 9 depending on how you count. Anyway, in my case the prints were all pretty consistent.


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## Stoker (Sep 18, 2016)

steamermeister said:


> Thank you. I'm after any scrap of information I can get. I live over 2,000 miles away from SP18 so I can't just take measurements whenever I like. I bought these two books for this project and have a copy of every good and terrible photo available from Google. Before making the next drawing sets, I'll post images here of my CAD model and perhaps you can critique. If you have any CAD software, or even a CAD viewer, I can send just about any file type needed.
> View attachment 62082





steamermeister said:


> Thank you. I'm after any scrap of information I can get. I live over 2,000 miles away from SP18 so I can't just take measurements whenever I like. I bought these two books for this project and have a copy of every good and terrible photo available from Google. Before making the next drawing sets, I'll post images here of my CAD model and perhaps you can critique. If you have any CAD software, or even a CAD viewer, I can send just about any file type needed.
> View attachment 62082





steamermeister said:


> Interesting, I'm curious what was wrong. I actually made 8 wheels. One failed attempt at combining wheel and tire into a single print, one complete prototype wheel minus the paint and the six that will end up on the finished locomotive. The prototype helped me dial in my process for best results. There was also one print I messed up on during the machining, so perhaps 9 depending on how you count. Anyway, in my case the prints were all pretty consistent.





steamermeister said:


> Thank you. I'm after any scrap of information I can get. I live over 2,000 miles away from SP18 so I can't just take measurements whenever I like. I bought these two books for this project and have a copy of every good and terrible photo available from Google. Before making the next drawing sets, I'll post images here of my CAD model and perhaps you can critique. If you have any CAD software, or even a CAD viewer, I can send just about any file type needed.
> View attachment 62082


Hello Sean .... quite the project!
Wonder if these old drawing would be of any help to you?


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

How/where did you get your hands on that? I have some elevation views for the tender in Bader's book but not much for the locomotive. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, I don't check every day since reply posts tend to drop off after a day or two. Anyway, yes! If you're able to send a high resolution image of both, I want them.


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## Stoker (Sep 18, 2016)

steamermeister said:


> How/where did you get your hands on that? I have some elevation views for the tender in Bader's book but not much for the locomotive. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, I don't check every day since reply posts tend to drop off after a day or two. Anyway, yes! If you're able to send a high resolution image of both, I want them.


I got these old drawings from the collection of Richard Datin, who was the founding curator of the Nevada State Railroad Museum in Carson City. After his passing, his daughter was selling off the collection, and I was able to obtain quite a little collection of V&T, C&C, SPng, C&TL&FC and other regionally related materials.

I have no known capability of getting a higher resolution set of images to you as I have no scanner capability. The images provided were just done with my little pocket Canon digital camera. The only other thing I can think to do is photocopy the drawings and simply mail them to you.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Stoker said:


> The only other thing I can think to do is photocopy the drawings and simply mail them to you.


In my experience, if you take them to a copy shop, nowadays they will actually scan and print them - and you can have the hi-res scan emailed to you.


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## Stoker (Sep 18, 2016)

Pete Thornton said:


> In my experience, if you take them to a copy shop, nowadays they will actually scan and print them - and you can have the hi-res scan emailed to you.





Pete Thornton said:


> In my experience, if you take them to a copy shop, nowadays they will actually scan and print them - and you can have the hi-res scan emailed to you.


Howdy Pete

That may well be true in the big city, but here in the Eastern Sierra I am unaware of any of our two photo copy shops that offer that service, and it is most of two hundred miles to what one might call a city from here.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Stoker, a photocopy is appreciated all the same. I've sent you my address in a private message. Thank you


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## Stoker (Sep 18, 2016)

Just out of curiosity, have you clicked on the photos I provided and then clicked on the "open in new tab" option that appears at the top of the dropdown box?

Doing so provides a larger image with magnification options that appears at least as good as the original drawings and offers a somewhat larger format. I suspect that you could then download that image and put it into any program you wished, like photoshop, to size and print it out however you might like.

Alternately, I could email you the photos, so that they aren't going through the forum and any degradation that might cause.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

No, I hadn't thought to do that. Thank you for suggesting as these photos are suitable as is.


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## Stoker (Sep 18, 2016)

Great .... saves me having to go into town and into a copy shop!

Hope those drawings help you out some in your fantastic project. I will be following this for certain and for sure!!!


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## Royce (Sep 16, 2013)

If you send me an email address I can provide a copy (scan) of the erecting drawing for a sister engine to #18 (#8, or 9 - with stephenson valve gear). 

royce


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Sent in a private message. Thank you.


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## Royce (Sep 16, 2013)

steamermeister said:


> Sent in a private message. Thank you.


How do I access "private message"?


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## Ironton (Jan 2, 2008)

On the upper right corner of the screen is your avatar. Click on it and you will get a list of things with your account. Currently they seem to be calling private messages "conversations". Click on that and you should see the message.

Hope it helps.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

This little assembly took a lot longer than I thought it would. Lots of reasons: the lathe was down for a month with a bad motor, dumb machining mistakes on time intensive parts, and an 11th hour design change. Anyway, now the Axle Pump is done. I'll be posting once per day.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

That's all for now. I have to do more design work on the chassis before releasing any more stuff.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Though I made some changes, Bill Allen deserves the credit for the majority of the design of the Axle Pump; certainly the areas where it matters in terms of miniaturization of the plumbing and mechanism. He is acknowledged on the drawing but it's still best to give credit as publicly as I am able. With everything I have going on in my life I neglected the mention in my previous Axle Pump postings.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

The design of the valve gear is complete. Here's where I'm at with the chassis design as a whole. It still needs more CAD work but the end is in sight.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

To tune the valve gear I made something of a graphical valve gear calculator. In this SolidWorks sketch some elements adjust themselves automatically, others have to be adjusted manually in an iterative process, and some are completely fixed and unmovable. The valve travel is defined with a dimension for the forwards and reverse states (.212) while the lead is only dimensionally defined for the forwards states (.00375). The backset of the expansion link was then adjusted iteratively for correct lead in the reverse states. The return crank orbit circle, the angle of the return crank, and the length of the eccentric rod would automatically adjust. The dimensions labeled "Measured in a Previous Iteration" I'll get to next.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Once the lead for the reverse states were adjusted, I created new sketches. This time the valve gear elements were set at the lengths that this first test calculated. The .0039 dimension in this sketch is being used to push the valve back as far as this geometry will allow to reveal what the actual lead of this state is, in this case .00388356 (SolidWorks rounds dimensions for viewing purposes). The "Measure Angle" annotation is exactly what it says.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Anyway, here are the values for actual valve travel and lead I was able to produce (values rounded to the nearest hundred thousanth of an inch). When set in forwards: Valve Travel = .21214, Front Lead = .00375, Back Lead = .00388. When set in reverse: Valve Travel = .21211, Front Lead = .00385, Back Lead = .00376.

I have tried more iterations to get more accurate values (.212 for valve travel and .00375 for lead) but the solution has remained elusive. It's probably doable much more investigation would be required. Overall, I'm satisfied with the results.

The process I have described only took a week to create and implement before it spit out this answer. That said, before I came up with it I had been beating my head against the wall for the previous three and a half weeks, working hard but getting nowhere. There are a lot of variables to the Walschaerts valve gear. Here's a shot of a more beautified version of the valve gear to end with.


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## D&RGWC&S Fan (Jun 1, 2021)

Fantastic work! Your solidworks skills are inspiring, and that valve gear looks intimidating. Once you have the whole assembly finished (and have time to do it), a motion study clip would be super cool. If you don’t have time, I may be able to help with that.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

While I would like to animate the motion, the solid model is very heavy (CAD speak for high computer processor load). I also have no time for it. If you'd like a crack at it, I can send you the data once I'm fully done working the chassis. I've taken the week off to handle some side projects that have been shelved for too long but I'll be back at it next week.


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## D&RGWC&S Fan (Jun 1, 2021)

steamermeister said:


> While I would like to animate the motion, the solid model is very heavy (CAD speak for high computer processor load). I also have no time for it. If you'd like a crack at it, I can send you the data once I'm fully done working the chassis. I've taken the week off to handle some side projects that have been shelved for too long but I'll be back at it next week.


No worries, I have a custom build PC at work for handling CAD and FEA which has handled multiple 300+ part assemblies and sub-assemblies. I am generally busy as well but would love to help out. Keep up the great work!


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## JohnM (Mar 3, 2010)

As many times that I have driven past that place, I’ve never stopped in. I’m sure if you contacted them there’s gotta be an old coot in the group that could take photos, measurements as you needed them. It’s not really a town with a whole lot going on there…..


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

JohnM said:


> As many times that I have driven past that place, I’ve never stopped in. I’m sure if you contacted them there’s gotta be an old coot in the group that could take photos, measurements as you needed them. It’s not really a town with a whole lot going on there…..


Thanks but I have more than enough photo data to keep me going for now. A lot of the design is necessarily a compromise since there is a minimum size that various features and parts can be, below which they are unbuildable. This has knock on effects on other parts down the line as everything needs to work harmoniously.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

D&RGWC&S Fan said:


> No worries, I have a custom build PC at work for handling CAD and FEA which has handled multiple 300+ part assemblies and sub-assemblies. I am generally busy as well but would love to help out. Keep up the great work!


I’ll post again once I have the chassis model finalized and get you a copy of the CAD data.

Royce, same for you.

To everyone else, I’ll freely provide the CAD data. I’m thinking by USB stick in the mail. Just one catch, I need to know what your plan is for it. Some guidelines, I don’t want this information to be used for profit. Similarly you need to have real goal in mind, It doesn’t have to be a lofty one but just saying “I think it would be neat to have” wont pass. The drawings of course will be free for all, even if used as toilet paper but the models will be treated differently.


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## Royce (Sep 16, 2013)

steamermeister said:


> I’ll post again once I have the chassis model finalized and get you a copy of the CAD data.
> 
> Royce, same for you.
> 
> To everyone else, I’ll freely provide the CAD data. I’m thinking by USB stick in the mail. Just one catch, I need to know what your plan is for it. Some guidelines, I don’t want this information to be used for profit. Similarly you need to have real goal in mind, It doesn’t have to be a lofty one but just saying “I think it would be neat to have” wont pass. The drawings of course will be free for all, even if used as toilet paper but the models will be treated differently.


Nice work Sean. I just used prototype rod dimensions and used Charlie Dockstader valve design software for the actual valve/lap/lead/port issues. And keeping my fingers crossed that it will work. And I won't even know for quite a while.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Good luck man. I'm doing the best I can with the all my engineering experience I have to muster. Still, I'm merely attempting to predict the future. At it's base, any CAD software is not much different from a crystal ball. You do your best at the design, including allowances for your abilities, and later you hope you were right. If not, hopefully you have some contingency plans thought out.


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## James Kuhns (Jan 12, 2008)

I have built SPNG 18 and 22. Kit-bashing Bachmann 10 wheelers for the engines and scratch building the tenders. No where near the detail you are putting into you project. The 22 was built over fifteen years ago, the 18 over ten years ago. They were great projects while recovering from foot surgery. I really enjoy running the SPNG trains on my railroad and I will be waiting to see you run yours and I hope you have as much fun with you and I have with mine.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

The chassis design is finally complete! I need a break to regain my senses a bit, but then drawings. Winter is not far off so it's good timing for that. I'll be back in the garage making chips in the Spring.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)




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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

The smoke box, cowcatcher, and backup plate (this is what I'm calling the plate on the back) still require further development. They are not necessary for air testing so they will be left out of the chassis assembly. That said, here's what it looks like with that stuff included.


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## steamermeister (Feb 20, 2013)

Royce and D&RGWC&S Fan: Send me a private message with your address and I'll mail you each a thumb drive with all of my CAD data. If you want to unlock the motion of the wheels and valve gear, here's the mate to suppress. It's the last on in the list.


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## D&RGWC&S Fan (Jun 1, 2021)

steamermeister said:


> Royce and D&RGWC&S Fan: Send me a private message with your address and I'll mail you each a thumb drive with all of my CAD data. If you want to unlock the motion of the wheels and valve gear, here's the mate to suppress. It's the last on in the list.
> View attachment 64467


I’ve stared at the photos for the past 20 minutes, amazing work! I sent you a PM.


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## Royce (Sep 16, 2013)

D&RGWC&S Fan said:


> I’ve stared at the photos for the past 20 minutes, amazing work! I sent you a PM.


Thank you for your kind words. Will post more as I progress. Just finished the weight shaft yesterday - until I broke a tap off in the end of it. Have to start over.


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