# fLICERING fIRE lIGHT



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Before I go and spend the money for a couple of manufactured flickering fire modules, I would wonder if there is a simple and inexpensive way to make my own.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Sure, one 12 volt bulb and four 12 volt "flasher" bulbs, assuming you can still find them. Wire them in parallel, put them in a cluster and paint them red/orange.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Go to Wal*Mart, to the "Party items" aisle and get a child's "Tiara" for $1.99 (the last I saw it). It has a small flasher unit with battery, an On/Off button and 5 red LEDs in a star pattern that light sequentially. It can be removed from the tiara easily. The 5 LEDs are just "lead mounted" and the leads are long enough to bend the back to face each other and close together to mask the sequential lighting pattern. Burried below some celophan or reflective mylar and it makes a convincing "fire" flicker.


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

Hook a small ligt bulb to the speaker output on a cheap transistor radio. Tune in a radio station & adjust the volume to get the desired lamp action.


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Posted By Bill Swindell on 18 Dec 2009 09:00 PM 
Hook a small ligt bulb to the speaker output on a cheap transistor radio. Tune in a radio station & adjust the volume to get the desired lamp action. 
That's an idea! This make the flickering also very randomwise...


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Bill,

What type of wattage are you talking about?


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

I was looking for a way to simulate a locomotive firebox. Problem is, most of the cheap solutions (old radio) won't fit in a locomotive boiler. And blinking bulbs or LEDs don't simulate a firebox fire very well either.

Then I found a spare flickering camp fire module from our HO layout that for some reason never got used. The module is super small and it powers a small surface mount orange LED. This is similar to the module I have:

Camp Fire Module 

_Scroll down a bit for the camp fire module_ 


The module easily fits in a G scale locomotive. But the small surface mount LED is not large enough or bright enough for G scale. Currently I'm experimenting with using a larger 5mm orange LED to light it, but I have not gotten around to do this yet. I might work on it some this weekend, and if I do I'll post the results.


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

These battery tea lights have a nice flickering look (that's what they're designed for). Most craft stores have them now and some are better and brighter than others, so it's worth testing them in the store. 

http://www.batteryoperatedcandles.n...ights.html 

I'm sure there must be some way to rig them to run off of track power? 
Chris


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've used those flickering fire led sets, they work well, but seem a little overpriced. It ought to be easy to use one of those led candles, jus6t regulate the voltage to whatever they run on.. I may try that after Christmas


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## chrisb (Jan 3, 2008)

I was looking at the instructables web site months ago and they have bunch of stuff on LED's. Some was dealing with flickering.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

These must have come from lemax or somesuch, but there is a new set in a building at the Botanic. They have yellow LEDS to simulate candle flames, and every few seconds one or another dims just a little a couple times and really gives the impression of a draft blowing a candle flame. Very effective.


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

Locomotive fireboxes on steam engines do not flicker. This is a nice myth perpetuated by the age old LGB mogul. When a steam loco is making steam( all the time) the fire is roaring red or nearly white hot, exceedingly constant and effectively blinding to anyone looking directly into the firebox for anything more that a very brief period. Coal burners and oil burners have each a different effect, but for our modeling purposes, they look the same. 
A very different environment than a candle in the window, or a trash can full of wood in a hobo camp. 

A few small light bulbs located in the firebox, and maybe one or two more underneath for the ashpan glow is all you need. Dip them in the red and yellow and orange clear tint sold by Tamiya in hobby shops, cut your firebox open, and have at it.it will look great, especially if you have a well detailed firebox door. 

Jonathan/EMW


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I know th real one don't flicker but people love to see the flicker. Whenever there are kids over I say "and look, you can see the fire," and they always love that. I have some with juts a single glow, but everybody loves the flicker


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Lownote,

While I'm sure the gentleman who posted ahead of you is correct--he sounds logical--for those of us who've never seen a real live firebox, or even a pic of one, wouldn't a picture work here? Could someone post one, perhaps?

As for the 'flickering' issue, I'd prefer the flicker for the very reason you stated: it looks cooler.

Les


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 20 Dec 2009 05:10 PM 
Lownote,

While I'm sure the gentleman who posted ahead of you is correct--he sounds logical--for those of us who've never seen a real live firebox, or even a pic of one, wouldn't a picture work here? Could someone post one, perhaps?

As for the 'flickering' issue, I'd prefer the flicker for the very reason you stated: it looks cooler.

Les


The old wood-burners would have some flicker in the firebox when the engine was sitting still (at a station, etc.), but when moving, with the resultant exhaust steam up the stack, creating a draft over the fire, the flicker would "even out" considerably.

A bigger engine burning coal would have just a glowing bed of coal when the engine was not running. At a standstill, the bed of coal would be a bright orange with black spots where you "might" be able to see (after your eyes adjusted to the brightness) individual coal chunks (especially an older engine that is hand fired with larger chunk coal). When operating, the gasses (hydrogen and other hydrocarbons) being boiled out of the coal turn the whole area over the bed a bright red/orange/yellow and intense white. There might be some darker swirling visible in it, where cold air is coming through the bed in a thin spot, but not such that one would call that a "flicker" like the present toy lighting systems portray. Overfire jets and air intakes along the sides of some fireboxes would have some flickering in them visible from outside, but the flicker would be very random from one hole to another, not uniform over all of them.

An oil burner will also have some flicker to it when the engine is standing, but again, when under load the flicker evens out and is just a big ball of fire.


But an engine like the BigBoy or Challenger that burned coal was a totally different story. The coal was fed forward from the tender via an auger under the deckplate and then via twin augers to a "table" just inside the firebox door, where steam jets blew it off the table and into the firebox. It was said that when the engnie was working hard, the coal would be completely burnt before it had a chance to fall to the grate! No "flicker" in that at all!


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

C.T., thanks for the history and technical details. I'm doing vintage teapots & critters, so I guess a little flicker is okay.

Les


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

This was posted in another thread... ("Must watch for anyone with a Berk or anyone who likes Berks" ... http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx )



You can see the overfire jets on the side of the firebox at 1:15-1:25 and around 8:20 in the video.

You can see the firebox "flicker" (ha ha) at 5:05 - 5:13...

Magnificent video... shades of O. Winston Link (only in motion instead of still photography).


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I saw that magnificent video and thought of this thread--there's the "glow" clearly visible, but it's not flickering and it's not red. 

But when I was at Strasburg this summer, you could see the firebox through some small air intake hoe in the side of the firebox, and it was, well not exactly "flickering" but not glowing steadily











Granted, a much smaller engine and it was in the station idling, not working hard.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

C.T. & Lownote,

Thanks very much for the pixes. Quite an education.

Les


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Magnificient video!


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## Splicer (Nov 29, 2008)

Posted By cjwalas on 19 Dec 2009 11:47 AM 
These battery tea lights have a nice flickering look (that's what they're designed for). Most craft stores have them now and some are better and brighter than others, so it's worth testing them in the store. 
http://www.batteryoperatedcandles.net/everlasting-led-p-tea-lights.html 
I'm sure there must be some way to rig them to run off of track power? 
Chris 

Thats what I would use. My wife LUVS these things. She paid $3 for 2 @ Walgreens I think she told me. When I went to Sams Club the day after Christmas they had one helluva deal going on. 24 (yes, 24) 'tea-lights' WITH 24 replacement batteries for $6 and some change. They are bright compared to the Walgreens one and a much better 'flicker'. Would be very easy to disassemble and use in housing or campfires or firebox glows. The package states the battery will last 120 hours. Anyway, thats what I would do if I was looking.


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## FH&PB (Jan 2, 2008)

The only time I have seen a firebox that produced a noticeably flickering light was a loco that had been converted to burn oil. The ash pan had been removed and the fire was essentially blowing around in an open box. 

I've never seen a coal burner that didn't produce a steady light. I've never seen a woodburner in person, but I'd guess it's the same, since the grate would be covered with chunks of glowing wood. 

So, I would skip the "flickering" part and just put a "fire light" in your firebox. All it needs to produce is a band of orange light around the bottom of the firebox and it will look very realistic.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes. I was thinking about adding such light to my Mallet. After reading here, I've decided it's better as it is.


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