# Just too cold to steam :(



## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

I tried steaming today. more like freezing water than boiling. first my gas went out as the gas tank froze. then my goodal bottle froze solid and water that i had spilled on the engine accidentally froze on the boiler jacket. yup, the boiler jacket froze its that cold, and the servos started to lock up. then the camera foze. oh, did i mention i came in side and soaked my hands in water that was boiling hot and didnt feel a thing? yes it is too cold to steam here. 20 deg. out with very strong wind chill bringing it to about-5 deg.

BTW my switches froze shut, and i couldnt get them to budge.


now i know why people go to diamondhead, its too cold everywhere else!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Nate, have you tried storing your locomotive somewhere where it is warm prior to taking outside and using warm water bath around your gas tank so it does not freeze (I'm not sure if Roundhouse SR&RL No.24 is like that). Once running the locomotive should keep warm/hot. 

In some places in the world is is so cold they never turn off bulldozers etc. They always keep them idling because it would be near impossible to start them otherwise.

I'm in Australia so Ice conditions are rare unless on top of a mountain in winter down south where it is colder.
Brrrr. I'm not too keen on it either.

Andrew


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Nate, that is why I put tender heaters in a couple of my loco's, I still try to warm them up a bit in the garage before going outside. I think yours is like mine with the fuel tank in the cab, Like Garratt said, try to warm it before going outside, it may stay warm enough to keep the butane flowing for a while anyway. LG


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

nick, i did that. i even steamed her up inside, yet she still froze up. 

she made nice plumes of steam though!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

nick, my engine has the fuel tank mounted in the cab above the throttle(it is very oddly placed)


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Still froze up, sure is cold where you are for sure. The fuel tank on my SR is in front of the servo, goes all the way down to the cab floor. My Mountaineer is the same way. Here is something I did to the Mogul to help keep the gas warm, just squeezed a piece of copper tubing to conduct boiler heat. The tank has never even gotten warm to the touch, but just enough to keep the gas warm, but maybe not warm enough for where you live.


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## Steve Ciambrone (Feb 25, 2014)

Just have some hot coco and spend time in the shop.

Steve


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Its never too cold lol.... That's one thing I like about the smaller steamers like the Dora. They are much easier to get steaming in the cold. I had my Cricket running in 9 degree weather. It helps to prep it indoors and and get it fired up and then bring outside. The coldest I ran was 9 degrees.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

BEAUTIFUL, what I think live steam should look like, LG


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## Bob in Mich (Mar 8, 2008)

Nate,Snowshoe and Nick Jr,,, All three of You have to go to Diamondhead.We Dont have problems with cold,that is why we run at Diamondhead.That is Christmas for us older folks Christmas for us Is Diamondhead.Run 24hrs a Day You can not do this anywhere else 
Merry Christmas and have a Happy Steaming New Year


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Its always fun to do a couple snowy cold weather runs for the plumes. I try to do this, but my last steamer didnt care for running in the cold. Hopefully the next one will be suitable for cold weather running. Mike


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob Merry Christmas. One day I would love to hit Diamond head but I think it will have to wait until I retire and kids are out of school. Believe it or not I actually prefer winter steaming over the warm weather. Something about running in the snow and cold. Then yet im a huge fan of the cold and snow I like to cross country ski, downhill ski and snowshoe as well.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Something about the dead stillness of cold air, atleast when the wind isnt blowing, really amplifies the sounds of the steam engine. And of coarse the cold allows the plume to hang in the air much longer. Hopefully my new RH Argyll handles the cold better than my Frank S did. Been way to windy, wet then frozen to do any steaming outdoors here lately though. Mike


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

*Gastypes*

Hi Nate,

You might want to try different gasmixtures / canisters, for low outdoor temperatures. As you may know, different elements go from liquid to gas at different temperatures.

- plain "normal butane", wich also is what comes in cigarette lighter canisters, is really troublesome below something like +8 Celsius. (I don't recall the exact temp figure.)

- a camping gas type container, with a large percentage (more than 40% or so) of "iso-butane" will actually form / stay gaseos at a much lower temperature. (Just as a science note, simple "isomeric compounds", where only the way the atoms are connected to each other physically, not the number or kinds of atoms differ, very often have no different charecteristics. Not in this case though, where iso-butane forms gas at a lower temperature.

- thirdly, getting a camping canister with up to 30% propane mixed with the butane, will work quite good down to -10C. However, adjusting the burner valve will be much more sensitive - but quite doable! I've done it a lot.

As Sweden can be a very cold place at times, camping canisters often contain 70% propane and only 30% butane. Which as a beginner, I tried to use... adjusting the burner becomes almost impossible ;-) I called Mr Regner senior in Germany (now deceased) about having problems with adjusting the burner. He asked about the gasmixture, and when I told him "Well, 70% propane and 30% butane", Mr Regner exclaimed in response -"But that will make a bomb!" ("Das wirt doch eine bumbe machen!") I spoke to him three times on the phone from Sweden, and he came across as a kind but quite colourful man! 

Using too much propane won't make abomb. BUT BEWARE! Do not pour warm water on a gastank/ canister! This can actually make it explode!!! Cold water is enough to raise temperature enough to make gas!

Have fun!


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

This morning, in the snow. 3 degrees. It's never too cold


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

I thought about this, but roundhouse says expicitavely *DO NOT USE BUTANE/PROPANE MIX IN THE OLD VERSION OF THE SRRL!*

i may try it. but i am afraid. something happened yesterday while running that has caused me to realize the dangers of live steam i am not going into detail, but lets just say i narrowly missed a disaster.


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)




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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

Nice snowy pic of the 24!


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

thanks mike. i video coming soon. toda i have been working on #24. spent an hour so far cleaning her (first i wash and scrub off every part of her with Dawn dishwashing soap,then she is completely washed with simple green. then i wipe her down with windex. you can see your reflection off her boiler and counterweights) also, a week or so ago i removed the bell, whistle and number plate and polished them. one thing you need to make sure of with a roundhouse engine is to wipe them dry really well, as some parts (bolts that hole siderods on in particular) will rust if not dried off.


in other words, i like a clean engine!


next project is to replace a cracked crosshead guide of left side(not broken yet, but better to fix it now than having her sidetracked at a steamup)


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

A clean engine is a happy engine! I should have my new to me Roundhouse Argyll on Wed of this week. He will get the same clean up and prep for a respray of the main body work. Just need to decide on color. All black just doesn't suit a UK/Scottish engine. I hunting for a source of the gamboge green of the prototype in a spray can here where I live. Mike


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## Tomahawk & Western RR (Sep 22, 2015)

ran her once since i washed her down. already covered in steam oil and water


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

With temps getting close to 0 degrees F, and a foot of snow on my little back yard layout, I think I’ll just wait ‘till spring.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom, please send some of that snow my way, chomping at the bit to get my rotary in action. Have a sparky shay in the garage cooling down and the battery charging up. LG


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

riderdan said:


> This morning, in the snow. 3 degrees. It's never too cold
> 
> https://youtu.be/vJhUXCjOcFA


Well, there was one thing I didn't like about this video...

.......
.......

The LENGTH!!! Geezz.. I'd like to see more, she was really putting out the smoke...


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

2Poor,
A nice plume is a function of both temperature and humidity. I know I've posted this before, but if you like plumes, here is a video of us running at 41 degrees in the rain.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

steamtom1 said:


> 2Poor,
> A nice plume is a function of both temperature and humidity. I know I've posted this before, but if you like plumes, here is a video of us running at 41 degrees in the rain.
> 
> https://youtu.be/x-RmN8mVfVs


Tom!

WOW! That was some nice plumage!!! Both engines looked nice! If you don't mind.. what was the one guy doing with what appeared to be a screwdriver to the engine?

Thanks for the awesome video.

Steve


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

I believe he was adjusting the safety.


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

steamtom1 said:


> I believe he was adjusting the safety.


I"m still looking at getting my first live steamer, hopefully in the 1st quarter of '17.. but now thinking instead of the 4-4-0 getting the Mogul, and it's actually a little cheaper.. don't know why it would be cheaper. lol

Ugg.. decisions decisions..

Steve


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

2poor I believe Jason pointed out some differences recently in a different thread. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL. LG


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## 2poor4Gscale (Oct 29, 2016)

Nick Jr said:


> 2poor I believe Jason pointed out some differences recently in a different thread. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL. LG


Thanks... I'll have to see if I can find it..

and.. yes.. Merry Christmas to all!!!

Steve


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

I recall reading about Alamosa, CO, at the D&RGW Roundhouse, where they would use steam from a live locomotive to heat up a dead locomotive before they could fire it up for use. There were special valves with connections on the steam domes of D&RGW locomotives to connect a hose from the live loco to the cold one.

Apparently, the Rotaries were just kept hot all Winter...

Robert


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

The tenders in many northern climates had steam heat to keep the coal from freezing together and the fuel oil flowing on an oil burner. Winter weather gave the real railroads fits in the days of steam. Mike


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

When I was a kid, growing up in Waterbury, Connecticut, the New Haven RR used to let their diesels, like the Alco RS3 below, sit and idle the entire winter, thus solving the starting and anti-freeze problem.


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

Using steam from one fired up locomotive to create draught and heat in a cold engine, has been standard procedure in both Germany and Sweden, and probably in a lot of places. I don't know the details, but aparently there were some standard valve / connecton provisions. In Germany, sometimes a special engine might be kept outside the engine houses for this purpose. Often though, these service and repair depots had a steamplant that also served this purpose, apartfrom heating the facility - and powering lathes and other machinery.

In evereday operations, the fire was never allowed to burn out overnight. A smaller heting fire was always kept. This also serves to prolong boiler longivity, due to fewer teperature induced strains to the boiler. I seem to remember reading, that when a boiler was completely cold, like after a major overhaul, firing up was done over several days, not do damage the boiler.

BTW... some poor succer had to turn up to showel coal at 4am to raise steam enough to resume operation at 6am,,, ;-)

...also, to conjure up the steam age, the locomotives stood all by themselves, completely lacking personell, all night with a minor auxilliary blower steam plume out of the chimney, because of the "night fire". In Sweden, in wintercold, that makes for a special scene!

On side account, this is one of the things museum type operations doesen't represent. But most desturbanly, museum locomotives do not leak hot bsteam everyware, the way I remember them fom 1969... they sort of "phusst" steam all over the place! I don't think a single piston gland din't spray steam... useum locomotives are 'too well kept' to give realistic experience of the time... ;-)


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