# Come on, NOBODY makes a modern auto carrier, really.



## lc17smp (Nov 19, 2008)

Ok this isn't about rolling stock but the lack there of. I just got a reply from USA saying that they aren't considering making an auto rack any time soon. They say its too long. (or would be really long) For those that like the modern trains I would imagine an auto rack would be one of the more desired cars. I don't want to attempt to kit bash one as it wouldn't be up to quality standards so what is one to do? Where would some one even begin trying to get these manufactured. Its crazy, we can get a 4 ft steam loco but not one of the most common cars on rails today. Ok I'm done.


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

Try contacting Shawmut Car Shops. I think he makes them.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep give him a call. He make the new style that is enclosed. Later RJD


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## Snoq Pass (Jan 2, 2008)

Shawmut Car Shops does have them: http://www.shawmutcarshops.com/


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Andy C lark, an MLS member in south central IL has scratchbuilt a few modern auto racks. I think he posted pics in a thread a while back ... but maybe we can get him to repost them here.

Regards ... Doug


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

When all else, fails, scratch build them... 

We'll see if the picture comes out... 










AndyC


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## George Adams (Jan 2, 2008)

Welcome to the reality of large scale. Large scale is a tiny market, the percentage of people interested in large modern cars, or that have the room to run them is a small fraction of the large scale market. Its unfortunate, but the manufactures hands are tied, it simply does not pay to make the enormous investment in tooling to manufacture a car that will not sell enough units to make a return on the investment. Aristo and now USA have stated that, but there are many who still think the market is much larger than it is. You will never see the variety of cars, roadnames and locomotives you see in other scales. The market simply can not support it. For the foreseeable future if you want large modern cars, you will have to have them built for you or build them yourself. 

George


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## Joe Mascitti (Oct 30, 2008)

USA said it would be to long? Longer than a doublestack container car????


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## lc17smp (Nov 19, 2008)

I looked at the Shawmut cars and they look quite toyish.(auto rack) Better than not having an option though. Im not sure of the length but USA Trains in their reply thought they are 85 foot cars. Oh well at least I have the intermodal cars.


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## spodwo (Jan 2, 2008)

Really - how many people can run 36 inch long rolling stock....


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you all should start a survey on this. Look at the USAT pass cars lot sold and lots of folks do run large trains. These cars are not short by no means. Later RJD


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

The autoracks & TOFC's, that I have scratchbuilt, I used plans from an old Railroad Model Craftsman magazine's HO scale plans, and blew them up 300 percent, to get it close to 1/29th scale... My Autorack measures 37 & 1/2 inches long, 4 & 1/8th inches wide, and 8 & 1/2 inches tall from the top of the rail.... It took a lot of time, and a lot of plastic, but the outcome was great... 

The AutoMax would probably run better on smaller layouts, as it is articulated: 










However, it is 5 foot, 2 inches long.... 

Of course, if you don't find the plan in a magazine, just get an HO scale model of it and measure that.... It also provides a quick reference so you can see what it actaully looks like...


Andy


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By spodwo on 01/23/2009 6:17 AM
Really - how many people can run 36 inch long rolling stock....
I agree


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Funny you posted those photos Marty, we have be working on a boat load of 89 ft flat cars that are made out of sheet metal with castings on the bottom. the bodies are be bent up on a sheet metal break. prototype picture on the bottom be picture to come in the next few weeks. these would also make a great starting point for auto racks..
Nick


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

These TOFC's were made from the same chasis as my autorack.... Trailer Chasis were plastic 1/32nd scale truck trailers, that had been modified and enlarged to look appropriate to the trailers.... Schneider is a 53 footer.... 


http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/andyc/ScratchBuilding%20pics/TOFC's%20on%20layout%20yard.jpg[/b]
_(Image exceeds 640 pixel width (i.e. 1004 px), changed to link, SteveC mod.)
_ 
ok, can't get that one to show up, for some reason...

[url]http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/andyc/ScratchBuilding%20pics/TOFC%20w%20good%20trailers%20-%20not%20painted.jpg[/b][/url] 

_(Image exceeds 640 pixel width (i.e. 1135 px), changed to link, SteveC mod.)_

White trailers were bashed to 45 footers










the Basic chasis is in white, laying on it's back, so the undercarriage is showing... TOFC is next to it, going left, and on the far left, is an Autorack side... The only difference is which side you attach to the frame, to make it either a TOFC, or an Autorack...

Just added for info purposes...

Andy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Great looking stuff Andy and Marty. 

I think manufacturers are living in the past. LGB could run on toylike curves, but the trend is more towards scale models with more detail. I have not heard of anyone STARTING a layout with tiny curves. 

Look at the poll on this site about min radius. 75% of the people (now the poll is up to 100 people) have curves 8 foot or more, not the tiny curves that manufacturers often cling to. 

Sure, it was different 10 years ago. That WAS 10 years ago. 

I could get really excited about some of these cars. 

People want full length streamliners now, as evidenced by Aristo's public comments that no one "ordered" or showed enough interest in "shorty" streamliners other than ATSF. (George, I have the quotes, so do not embarrass yourself). 

I know that certain manufacturers have felt that long wheelbase locos and cars are no good, did not sell well, but it's clear that as us old guys die off, we are replaced by younger people, and they want more modern equipment. Almost every freight car in 40' has been done. 

So keep up the good work guys, and the pressure to make more modern stuff, it looks great! 

Regards, Greg


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

It took a while to get quality autoracks in HO scale, so I would think it would take an eternity to get them in G.


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## spodwo (Jan 2, 2008)

Again - I don't think there is enough interest in 3 - 5 foot long LS cars. What do you think the average layout size is? I got an USA Trains hi stack by mistake and I noted 
two things - way too long and way to fragile. I sold it to a buddy the next day... 

As far as USA trains selling a lot of passenger cars - what is a lot? Anyone have a figure? I love Burlington Route stuff and I didn't even buy any....my layout wasn't big 
enough at the time and there was nothing to pull it...until the E8s came out. I still haven't bought them. 

And a beautiful passenger car certainly isn't a rolling parking lot. I personally don't find modern 120 car freight drags particularly pretty. To me, they are long, boring, have no caboose, nor 
personality. The onlly thing that gives a modern freight some interest is the imaginative graffiti on the sides. 











My home town gets about 130 freights a day through it and the only things I like to see are the Genesis Amtrak trains and the Radio contolled old Great Northern 
Geep that humps freight that occasionally fouls up the main street crossing. 

Again - strictly my personal opinon. 

I think there is great talent to make these if you REALLY want one as displayed in this thread. Great craftmanship. Just post how it's done and make it an online class... 

Ultimately, we have two manufacturers who make modern era stuff say there is no market for it and yet, we seem to know better? Seems awful risky 
in tough economic times to take a chance on something that a very narrow portion of the hobby would or could consider buying.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree there is less interest in longer cars, but "enough?", yes I think there is enough, at least modern cars. 

What do I think the average size is? Hmm... my point was that what is being built now is broader curves over 4' diameter, and at least have some data to back that up. 

OK, so you don't like long trains, and you like graffiti. Actually no mention of long trains was mentioned. Longer cars were mentioned. 

I believe there are more USAT streamliners being sold than Aristo ones. All the people I talk to want to go in that direction. I do not hear people clamoring for "short cars", look for posts asking for them. 

Yes, I agree with your last paragraph, the manufacturers say there is no market, that's a problem. We seem to know better? Well, let's just say that the manufacturers are not gods. For heavens sake, (pun intended), people have been clamoring for Aristo to make a Northern (since they have a mikado and a pacific), and a SD7/9 (since they make locos with 3 axle trucks) forever. 

What's the next loco out? A PCC trolley? Have you seen a movement of people asking for this? 

(I'm not picking on Aristo, it's just that they announce items way ahead of delivering them, USAT has not announced anything). 

I still say that I think manufacturers may be caught in a time warp. It WILL move forward eventually. Slowly. 

(I'm not buying a trolley car) 

Regards, Greg


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Remember the (B-mann) Spock! 

Matthew (OV)


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

First off, Greg, thanks for the comments about the cars... 

I can't speak for the people layout sizes, because I have no idea how small/big they are, unless they have posted on here, or largescalecentral, or Aristo's forum, to mention the size.... 

I love the smell of steam engines, but, I grew up, right after the transition to diesel and hardly remember any steam engines in my youth... My first ride, was in the cab of a Boston & Maine SW-1, working the industries in Peabody, Mass. 

So, I model diesels, which means, I model 1/29th, because, that's the scale that the maufacturers were making diesels engines in, at the time... 
True, I like to see long trains run, but, I am also into operations, and want my current layout to do both.... THe Autorack that i built, had 150 pieces to each side, and 150 pieces, to the chassis.. That required a lot of work... The TOFC"s weren't so bad, because the didn't have 150 piece sides...  

Anyway, before I keep rambling... What I'd like to see, is more modern freight cars, such as 40 and 50 foot boxcars, without roof walks... Maybe a 50 high cube boxcar.... What's wrong with Steel coil cars??? If the long passenger cars sell, why not a 60 foot center beam car??? a 60 foot high cube... 
They don't have to make 3 foot long cars, just some modern stuff.... What's wrong with an outside braced covered hopper??? 

Just my 2 cents worth.... 

Andy


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Complete agreement Andy, I was born too late for steam, although I like it. I've bought just about everything in the transition era that makes sense, so now on to more modern stuff. 

Aristo sells the heck out of their heavyweight passenger cars, which I believe scale out to 72' long. So, 50 and 60 foot cars are not going to make running impossible on everyone's layouts. 

The future HAS to include more modern stuff, I firmly believe. 

Regards, Greg


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## Enginear (Jul 29, 2008)

Boys, if you can build them, we will buy them. This may turn into my favorite new thread, Joe


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeff Damerst of Shawmut Car Shops (www.shawmutcarshops.com mentioned above) asked me to post this for him as he isn't a forum member anyplace... 

_ If it is so simple to make, then they ought outlay some cash and mass produce them. If so many folks want the cars, then someone on the forum needs to go into business and produce a quality car. It takes me a month to get one done. Maybe a group can get a cash outlay, and get someone in the states to mold the cars for them, paint them, and letter them for the the road names everybody wants. 

I paid over 200 dollars to have molds made to vacuum form the sides, roof, and ends by Precision Products - which are made for me exclusively. The car is built from a 4 inch square vinyl fence post cut to length, which is than sandwiched between two 4" x the length of car desired with 1 inch thick boards which are screwed to the top and bottom of the post. The sides are trimmed to fit the length desired and applied. The roof is made of 2 or 3 15 inch sections which have to be bonded together( not the world's easiest job as neither Larry nor I have gotten a perfect match yet as the roof is made of a ribbed material) and then flexed to go over the sides and are glued in place. Then the ends are glued to the car after being flexed over the sides. Next I add the underframe center sill which is custom cut for me by a friend out of wood. I then cut pieces fro the cross members out of 5/8 channel from Plastruct. A pair of Aristocraft roller bearing metal 
trucks are added. The ladders are made from Plastruct ladder material. The car is painted and decaled into the road name asked for. 

They are not the quality of USA Ultimate cars, but nobody has complained yet. They make a functional modern car that isn't available anywhere else unless one scratch builds them. 

One of my customers in IL is building open auto racks as he models in the early 60's. 
I have made two cars 27 inches long for a Detroit modeler who has smaller curves and a friend in TX has another 27 inch car, a 33 inch car for an AZ modeler, and a 38 inch was made for a guy in Canada. 

Auto carriers vary in length depending on their purpose. Some of the newer cars are no being made to 80 feet while most of the older cars were 85 feet long with a few 89 footers. The real cars are 19 feet above the track which scales out to around 8 inches. So anyone wanting such a car better check their clearances in their tunnels. 

I guess it all depends how finicky a person is. If they want perfection than they will have to scratch build their own cars. Actually if they are that particular they need to build their own car as each aluminium panel on a real cars has a million holes in it which is why you can see into the cars. I don't have the time nor desire to do that plus all one would see if the vinyl fence post. 

If they can live with my cars, I will gladly build them one. _ 


















Hope some may find this helpful... 

Matthew (OV)


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with Andy and Greg that they do not have to be long cars just newer types. Longer flat cars,gondolas and box cars. both companies to sart thinking out side the box for a change. Yes the younger generation is going to want this type of equipment. Just look at the six axle locos that have come out. Gets old pulling all these old 40 ft cars. I for one am not young but I would welcome newer rolling stock. Also make sure you install the rollerbearing style trucks with rotating caps, now thats cool. I have installed a lot of these trucks on some of my cars that have build dates in the 60s about the time these trucks started showing up. Later RJD


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