# Aristocraft Heavyweight issues



## train man (Feb 23, 2009)

Hi all I've had a set of the Aristo heavyweight cars for a number of years and they've never run worth a darn! today I pulled them out to try and figure out the issue. Anytime they hit a switch in a facing point move they want to jump the frog and derail this happens with both the 4 and 6 axle cars, my LGB streamlined cars which are roughly the same size have run flawlessly for years so this prompted me to compare their trucks side by side and I noticed that the flanges on the Aristo wheels are much deeper than the LGB wheels which may be why they want to jump the frog. My first thought is that maybe replacing the Aristo wheels with LGB wheels could solve the issue, thoughts or suggestions?


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

That's most likely the problem and solution, but I'd check the wheel gauge first.


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## train man (Feb 23, 2009)

hmm never thought of that, how would you even adjust the wheel gauge if it was off?


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## Fred Mills (Nov 24, 2008)

Ahhh, here we go again......Thank you Dick, for your perfect, observation, on a problem that will truly never go away, without a much better designed passenger truck, for those Aristo passenger cars.

The next piece of advice might be of help; grab a copy of the August 2015, Garden Railways Magazine and READ while looking at the pictures, of young Kevin's article on track/wheel standards.

Oh yes, the "We don't need no frickin standards crowd" will surely jump in here....but the truth is that wheels and track, have to be compatible, in order to enjoy good fun without frustration...switches are VERY MUCH part of the picture.

As far as "How to adjust wheels", I know how to do it, and many others do too, but describing how is beyond my expertise, and hopefully Kevin will follow-up with a well documented "Picture Show" on the how to bit.

If more people would show where they are located, and used their real names, a person wanting to give advice might be able to suggest where help could be found, local to the person needing assistance. No sense suggesting where help can be found if the person is living on the moon or some other place....and being able to converse with a person using his/her actual name is much more civilized.....IMO, for what it's worth....


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Who made the switches and what is the diameter of the divergent track's curve, or its number if is a more prototypical switch?

I am now using LGB 18000 series switches, 15' diameter. When I first built my layout I used AristoCraft wide radius, 10'diamerer. My heavyweights ran through them without problems. 

When I have a problem with the back to back distance on an axle, I take the axle out of the truck and grab one wheel in each hand. With a slight twist I can move them closer together or further apart. All of the wheels I have are pressure fitted to the axle.

When I first got the heavyweights, I had to remove the center axle on the 3 axle trucks. They wouldn't handle my 10' d curves, too much drag. This was on the main line, not a switch problem. I didn't have any problems with the 2 axle trucks. I converted my cars to close coupling body mounted couplers.

Chuck


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> When I have a problem with the back to back distance on an axle, I take the axle out of the truck and grab one wheel in each hand. With a slight twist I can move them closer together or further apart. All of the wheels I have are pressure fitted to the axle.


I used the same technique on Bachmann wheels. However, (picks up coach from shelf over desk) I'm not sure that's the best technique here. I haven't done anything like this, but I think the Aristo wheels are half solid with the axle and the other wheel is hub-insulated from the axle (little tube of hard plastic inside the wheel between the wheel and the axle.) I recall having a short circuit from installing one track backwards - the coaches pick up lighting power from opposites sides of the two trucks. The axle runs in a bearing that transfers power to the wires on the truck from the un-insulated wheel.

A better solution is a proper wheel puller - if your back-to-back is wrong. Or put the axle in a vise loosely with the wheel resting on the top surface and tap the axle with a hammer.

The best solution might be to change the wheels - but you will lose the lighting pickups if you do.


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

Has the design of the wheels changed over the years? I have a rake of 4x Pennsy heavyweights - 4 wheel and 6 wheel trucks. I've never noticed a problem going over my LGB 16xxx (R3) and 18xxx (R5) points on a diverging route.

I agree with Pete: the wheels on mine aren't half-stub axles typical of some other designs, and they wouldn't respond well to being twisted and pulled or pushed to adjust the back-to-back measurement. I think they'd need to be replaced with different wheel-sets if there were any problems.

Nick (in the UK)


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I suspect this is not the problem but years ago Aristocraft had a problem with wheels coming loose where they mount to the axle resulting in the wheels going out of gauge. The solution was simple - set the guage right and put a drop of superglue where the wheel fits to the plastic part of the axle.

If the gauge is off you can have problems with anything.

The axles in my heavyweights are solid metal as mentioned with a plastic sleeve (where the gauge can be lost).

Jerry


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The wheels have changed a few times over the years. The most recent are the best to have. They are solid brass with a glossy dark plating on them. The older wheels were cast as "half-shafts" bonded at the center of the axle with a plastic sleeve. I suggest using either the newer aristo wheels or LGB ball bearing wheels.


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Im sure the LGB ball bearing sets would solve the problem nicely..
but at $17 per axle, times 34 axles (in my case, seven Aristo heavyweights) = $578.
not going to ever happen! 

Im considering this alternative:

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/24202/ball-bearing-journal-inserts

That would be 68 bearings, about $70. much more doable..
anyone here ever try those?

Scot


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> Im sure the LGB ball bearing sets would solve the problem nicely..


Yes, but you would lose the lighting pickups - though it would be easy to change them to the new wheels - don't the ball-bearing wheels have a pickup tab on the inside to connect wiring?


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

A word of caution I have found a significant variety of wheel diameters, axle lengths, and the diameter of the end of the axle.

Aristocraft wheels will tend to be smaller in diameter than, for instance LGB or Bachmann wheels. Their axles tend to be shorter than some others I have used. It is not uncommon for some brands of wheels to rub the plastic brake shoes on some rollingstock.

Wheel weight can be another factor. Some wheels and axles are quite heavy. 42 heavy wheels and axles can add a lot to the weight of the heavyweights.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Greg E's site has a several pages dedicated to the Aristocraft Heavyweights. Perhaps there is some useful information therein.

http://www.elmassian.com/large-scale-train-main-page.html

Hover over "LS Trains" button, a drop down tab appears; hover over "Rolling stock mods and tips", at the drop down; hover over Aristocraft rolling stock, at the drop down; hover over "Passenger car, heavyweights", click on it for an info page or hover and choose one of the five topics from the drop down menu.

Michael


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry

My heavy weights all came with metal wheels. They have lights. So adding someone else's metal wheels wouldn't have a significant impact on the overall weight.


Chuck


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I use a 1/64" thick by 3/32" wide brass strip and wrap it around the guard rail as shown in the photo and found specific instances where this improved tracking, especially for the heavyweights. Many have now copied this, usually with sucess, or at least fewer derailments.

Note that brass strip is usually die cut such that the edges on one side are rounded and the edges on the other side are sharper. The rounded edge should be the one facing the wheels.


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Scottychaos said:


> Im sure the LGB ball bearing sets would solve the problem nicely..
> but at $17 per axle, times 34 axles (in my case, seven Aristo heavyweights) = $578.
> not going to ever happen!
> 
> Scot


Yes they are expensive, but in this case you get what you pay for. These are German made wheels which have ultra-low resistance ball bearings in each stainless steel wheel. This allows the wheels to rotate at different speeds through curves and roll endlessly on flat track. The power pickup is amazing! And if you're a battery guy...you'll pick up longer run times due to the reduced drag...plus less wear and tear on the locomotives etc...


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

s-4 said:


> Yes they are expensive, but in this case you get what you pay for. These are German made wheels which have ultra-low resistance ball bearings in each stainless steel wheel. This allows the wheels to rotate at different speeds through curves and roll endlessly on flat track. The power pickup is amazing! And if you're a battery guy...you'll pick up longer run times due to the reduced drag...plus less wear and tear on the locomotives etc...


I believe you..but that's all competely irrelevant, because I will never, ever, pay $600 for wheelsets for 7 Aristo heavyweights..
I'm sure a 90k Mercedes is also nicer than my 15k Ford Focus..also irrelevant!


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe this is why I still commute in an '03 Focus!


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Does your focus have ball bearing wheels too!!!!!!!

D


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Actually they are roller bearings pressed into the the brake drums...I should know as they are replaced like every 60k haha...And although most are older than my focus, I have yet to wear out any LGB bearings!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't think ball bearing wheels are the issue here, the OP says he has derailments.

Has it been verified yet that the Aristo wheelsets have been checked/adjusted for proper gauge?

I'm also very surprised to read that the Aristo wheels have deeper flanges than LGB.

Did I miss the manufacture of the switch?

Also, are the wheelsets the full metal axle, or the ones with two plastic "half shafts" held with a narrow pin?

Most likely the problem is the lubrication of the truck assembly, that is what caused my derailments, nothing to do with the wheels.

This is a page dedicated to Aristo HW truck issues:

http://www.elmassian.com/large-scal...k/heavyweights/hw-truck-problems-a-fixes.html

Greg




train man said:


> Hi all I've had a set of the Aristo heavyweight cars for a number of years and they've never run worth a darn! today I pulled them out to try and figure out the issue. Anytime they hit a switch in a facing point move they want to jump the frog and derail this happens with both the 4 and 6 axle cars, my LGB streamlined cars which are roughly the same size have run flawlessly for years so this prompted me to compare their trucks side by side and I noticed that the flanges on the Aristo wheels are much deeper than the LGB wheels which may be why they want to jump the frog. My first thought is that maybe replacing the Aristo wheels with LGB wheels could solve the issue, thoughts or suggestions?


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I did not see Greg's post before submitting this one. Wheel sets dragging have given me fits in smaller scales as well.

I'll leave my original post below, but Greg's supersedes this.

Here is an other option for ball bearing wheels. DIY ball earring wheels. 

eBay has miniature bearings commonly used in RC cars for about $3 a dozen. If you have a lathe and a way to pull the wheels off the axels ( pulley extractor ) and press bearings into the wheelsets and onto the axels ( possibly a scrap piece of metal with a hole of proper dia & depth) 

Also will need some plastic tubing or stock of the right diameter. Look at delrin or similar quality plastic to handle heat and machine easy. It is not as cheap for the stock length, but for the amounts needed per wheel it comes out good.

It is time consuming, but way cheaper.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg

You did not miss the manufacturer of the switch. It has not been mentioned.

The OP hasn't posted anything since I ask the question.

Chuck


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

It's only Saturday....

"Thats an OP fault",.... requires attention to thread OP initiated"....

...such is the life of helpfull diagnosis! !!!

D


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## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

JPCaputo said:


> ... DIY ball earring wheels.


 Ouch - don't think I like the idea of those!


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