# Very confused.



## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Gday everyone

I introduced myself in the new members forum the other day, and had some advice given from a few guys to what I want to get out of my plans. Heres the URL to it (sorry havent quite got the gist of the way to post pics and links yet).
http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...f/27/aft/127227/afv/topic/Default.aspx#284872

Well basically now I seem more confused, I still like the idea of batteries, I dont mind the lower run times, as I said in my other thread, I have used batteries before from nicd's, nimh's and lithium polymer's. I have a 4 in 1 hitech, high end smart charger from my hobbies in RC airplanes, boats and cars, but now going into model trains and more particularly large scale. I have a a lot of questions and I have tried searching for answers online and on here but most are really not answered or in one particular area its actually big argument (guess what that could be), Im not looking to start an argument, but just help.

My plan was to buy a set, but sets come in either DC or DCC in some cases, but not RC that I could find. My desire is to not be too strict on exact scales, I like the premise "I can do what I want, its my railway" in that sense, but my main goal is to do a narrow scale look that matches Queensland Rail of the steam era, in either a coal, logging or sugar can theme, my ideas in my head have 2 loops, an outer loop, an inner loop and a mountain track some where on there with a building at the top and a yard type thing near that for some shunting type thing. Locos I would like would be similar to what we(queenslanders) had at the time, the outer loop being a sort of main line, the inner loop more along the lines of a logging line or similar. Anyway, the locos could be like lyns, climax, 0-6-2, maybe a couple of locos for the scale side, and then anything else as they come or I like the look of.

Ok the questions, firstly like I said, RC interests me more, DCC is similar and seems to have some things I like about it, there are things about track power I dont like at all, not so much the cleaninig, but a bonus not to have to constantly clean, but also laying wiring around is something I dont want to do, plus I really want to have manual turnouts and switches, and the like. What worries me is cost of R/C, so questions are

What sort of batteries are used in the locos? volts and amps? My planes can use 14v 5000mah lithium polimers
I know sets are out, but I would like to buy something like a set to just use til i saw everything else out, so could I buy a small loop of track, an RC unit (thinking Revolution), Loco and battery just to start off? Im guessing yes
Ive looked for help in australia, theres not much, Ive found a couple, but not much on pricing here in australia, or shops, or clubs, here near Brisbane/Ipswich. Can some one help me find these things? I dont mind ordering online for my things, but would like to compare prices first and see stuff in person.
Any other help would be great?

Like I said I like DCC but battery and RC is more appealing to me, DCC worries me in the weather I get here, we go from -4 celcius in winter (not snowing, but its frosty, and for a tropical queenslander its freezing) all the way up to 45 celcius, it can be dusty when dry and when it rains its hard and heavy and I would prefer not to have the power running through the track that could change all the time. But obviously if RC and battery is extremely expensive the of course I would have to go another way.

Heres a link to my plan design, its not perfect, its just to give me an idea of ideas I like to have if i can once I do set one up, it may change on things such a new home and all that of course.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6867/planal.jpg

Anyway, I think thats all for now, thanks guys.


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## scottemcdonald (Jan 11, 2008)

Your very right. All of that electronic mumbo jumbo is confusing and gets in the way of enjoying the hobby. Go live steam. All you need is fuel, water, and a match. 

Scott


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Live steam is definately on the list of give it a go one day, but its not the electronics that bother me, wiring and soldering sits fine with me, lots of practice with the cars and planes, I built my own battery cooling tubes and towers, and saftey boxes. Its a bit different with garden rail, and the questions are more the issues for now


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Back to some of the questions from the previous thread: 

Are you going to use sound? 
Will you consist multiple locos? 
What are some example locos you will have? 
Average length of trains? 
What kind of grades will you have? 
How long a run time do you expect? 
Will you want to use smoke? 
If using sound, how "fancy" do you want it. 

Those answers will help drive the type of control system and size and voltage of the batteries. 

Personally I see no problem with using LiPo batteries if you are already familiar with handling them. I do recommend that they be removable for charging. That alone would normally cause me to recommend something else, since making batteries removable is a pain in certain cases... but that comes back to answering the questions above. 

Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

RC interests me more, DCC is similar and seems to have some things I like about it 
Exile (?) 
The r/c 'systems' that have been produced by Aristo/Crest, RCS, Airwire, Locolinc, etc., are proprietary electronic throttles that have a lot of resemblance to a DCC system. The latter is supposed to be 'standard' and (theoretically) gives you a lot of control over parameters. But the others provide similar capabilities - start/stop/slow, blow the whistle, etc. Airwire's claim to fame is that it is a DCC system using the radio for the control signal, but it uses proprietary throtles, I believe, so it isn't plug-and-play with someone else's DCC chips. 

I use RCS' old Elite throttles in my sparkies, but I have 2.4Ghz radio systems in my live steamers, so I may end up using RCS' new throttles. My pals have Airwire - nothing wrong with them but they are more complex. 

It helps to standardize on the same type of system or you get confused when you switch engines, but multi-vendor DCC isn't necessary imho. 

What sort of batteries are used in the locos? volts and amps? My planes can use 14v 5000mah lithium polimers 
I buy my batteries at the R/C Hobby shop. A pair of 7.2V for Bachmann locos, maybe 2 x 9.6V for Aristo, and I have a pair of 10.8V (9x sub-C cells in a pack designed for a paint gun,) in my big Mikado. Mine are 2200+a/hr NiMH packs which give me 2-4 hrs running, but pal Rog is using LiPo with special chargers from Cordless Renovations - just like your packs. Remember that our trains need 12-24V, depending on the manufacturer (and how fast you want to run!) 

Can some one help me find these things? 
Not in Brisbane, mate! Tony Walsham at RCS is in Oz and is very helpful. And his stuff works.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks Again greg, ill answer your questions first 

Are you going to use sound? 
I would like sound, doesnt have to be extremely complex, so long as I could hear a chuff of the engine, blow a whistle, ring a bell. But does have to be there for everyone of the locos. 

Will you consist multiple locos? 
Consist, not at this point, i might "help" a logging train up to the mill or what ever if i build one like I imagine, but wouldnt be too pushy, from what I saw on Gardentrains on Youtube, revolution supports consisting 
What are some example locos you will have? 
Start off with a lyn style, shapped loco, if I could find one in 0-6-2 would be good, maybe a climax one day, k-27 interests me a lot but that would be later in the picture if at all. 

Average length of trains? 


What kind of grades will you have? 
Grades im not sure of, but I wouldnt want to extreme, this is where I would like to see hands on more about what the locos can handle in the sense of grades, I wouldnt want to push them and if I wanted to get up great hights would do it over longer rails 

How long a run time do you expect? 
I really dont think i would like to run all day, Id like to have to control the train more so, if i wan to leave it run for a while in a loop then I would probably ony let it do it for an hour or 2 before wanting to change things and take over again, I like interaction. And if I would like longer times once I have a better set up then I was thinking battery car. 

Will you want to use smoke? 
If the model comes with smoke then yes ill run it, but only prob 2-3 times of the models life and probably only using the supplied oil, reason is its not too big of deal for me, Id use it the first day I got it, one I show people, and if take a photo, that would probably be it, and I figure if I do want to run smoke longer or regularly, Im thinking of a battery car to add to the power. 

If using sound, how "fancy" do you want it. 
As said before, I dont need too fancy, chuff, bell, whistle, 

And ill add to the fact I like interaction, I like the idea of manual turnouts and switches, i saw people using bolt style door latches to change them, that is something I imagined in mine, I like that idea, it would minimize track wiring a whole lot. 

Removing batteries doesnt bother me, you should see some of the airplanes, I havent got the stockier fingers like some people and I struggled getting the batteries in, and at least then theres no worry of a glitch and a prop slicing a leg open or or finger cut off while connecting the batteries. 

Pete 

Thanks for that, ill look into the other brands too, I just saw a video series on the Revolution and was quite amazed at what it could do and that was in beta testing at the time the series was filmed. 

Over all I would like RC I think, DCC is great, works on my N guage (to a point, still some issues at times) but when it comes to being out side, I dont want to have to run that sort of wiring wiring at all, that really puts me off.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Exile182. 
Thanks Pete. 
Tony Walsham is not only in OZ, he is in Casino NSW which is about 2 + hours South down the freeway from Brisbane. 
AMRA in Qld have a large outdoor club layout in Zillmere which is available the third Saturday of each month for members and visitors. 
What I would suggest you do is attend the Feb 16th running day and try out the R/C systems that I make. 

The operating requirements of ESC's for model Trains are a lot different than ESC's for cars, boats and planes. 
For a start train operators want something with a lot more control than the basic ON - OFF of most ESC's. 
Secondly they must also have the capability of handling at least 24 volts. 
Thirdly, they must be suitable for brushed motors. Most R/C after market ESC's are for brushless motors only. 
Fourthly, in general they should provide constant brightness directional lighting and have at least 3-4 sound trigger functions. Although that is not always necessary. 

I can supply batteries, chargers, Phoenix and MyLocosound sound systems, R/C and installation kits as well as the ESC's I make, which are suitable for use with 2.4 GHz stick radios. I use and recommend Spektrum and Planet R/C. 
Unfortunately it is virtually impossible for me to have Li-Ion & Li-Pol batteries made up here in OZ. Master Instruments who make all my batteries simply will not supply them with low voltage cut off pcb's. Just over charge and over current pcb's. Even if they did, I would still be loathe to use Li-Po mainly because of the special requirements with regards to charging etc. 
So, for the time being I am still supplying Sub C NiCd's and AA size ENELOOP hybrid batteries for smaller locos. Yes these are expensive, but they are Sanyos and give far better value for money in the long run than cheaper brands. I don't like regular NiMh batteries as they have only half the life span of NiCd and they self discharge at a quite rapid rate. 

Many of the large scale locos are not that large when it comes to installing batteries and R/C onboard, so one has to be a bit creative. I have published dozens of "How To" articles on the Net over the years. There is a list of "How To's" at the RCS website under "Instructions".


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not to belabor the point, but to run DCC outside, you need two wires only, one to each rail... that's it. Even if you have a reversing loop, the autoreverser can be located at that point and is self powered. Wiring is very simple, much simpler than DC. 

But back to battery power, one comment, on smoke, it can use as much power as the motor itself! So, I would suggest it's one of the things you give up when going battery. 

Your sound requirements sound easy to handle, and you can probably buy some $100 units that will satisfy you, and can be triggered by most R/C systems. 

Good deal on making the batteries removable, a strong suggestion if you use lithium of any type, my opinion. 

Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

but to run DCC outside, you need two wires only 
Greg, 
That's fine in theory, but in practice you have to consider (a) voltage drop and (b) maintenance. 

I'll leave you to discuss the voltage - multiple feed issues, but let me say that we once wasted a whole day at a meet trying to figure out where we had a short circuit. (Turned out it was a visiting loco.) The large track had no sections so we couln't isolate the problem area. I would advise anyone with track power to, at least,segment the track so you can find an electrical glitch.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Thanks tony, I will definatelly have a look at that some time, not sure if ill make it to the Feb 16 though, doing courses at the moment and this month is exam time for me! Im not a fan of using airplane trains to much, I do have a a Hitech Aurora 2.4, an amazing radio that is. 

Greg, so how would I make sure I have enough power down the track? for example my N gauge seems to struggle at the furthest end of the layout away from the connection (I was never too sure if it was power problem or just a fault in my track set up, still learning dcc with the Dynamis set up), so say i have the "yard" in my shed, that leads out to the track out side, and I have my DCC set up inside, all i have to do is hook it to one of the tracks inside the shed? what about the switches, and turn outs, Ive been told they are quite tricky? would i have to run wiring for them? Like i said, I like dcc in theory, the idea to be open to run all day and the direct control, but if I have to clean the tracks daily and still run the risk of failings, or track separation? Again I know RC has maintenance involved with batteries and so does DCC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I looked at his track plan, and listened to what he has said... he's not running a lot of locos, or long trains, nor is the layout large. Many people run layouts 3 times that size with one set of feeders. 

Yes, I would add feeders, and separate sections but I was reacting to "complicated wiring" as applied to DCC... and in terms of maintenance, I always recommend clamps and/or jumpers... yes, multiple segments can help find shorts, but this is not large, nor complex... 

But I'm helping derail this and I'm sorry... back to battery. 

Greg


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

So how about the above questions greg, as I said, if I find dcc viable in the sense of complication, as in I dont wiring it too much or setting up a a few segments I would go that path, also what about water on track power? if i water my garden will that effect it, I like the idea of being able to work on the garden and run trains at the same time, I know lots of water wouldn't be good, but say I water in the morning, can i run it that same day? If dcc is a good viable means for me I would look at it, as Im always up for saving a few bucks here and there. But on the same note, wont stinge on it where its needed either.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Exile182 on 30 Jan 2013 05:02 PM 
Thanks tony, I will definatelly have a look at that some time, not sure if ill make it to the Feb 16 though, doing courses at the moment and this month is exam time for me! Im not a fan of using airplane trains to much, I do have a a Hitech Aurora 2.4, an amazing radio that is. 

SNIP. 

If you are keen to get as much information as possible before you start I would respectfully suggest you try and find a couple of hours to attend on the 16th. The March meeting is a public open house day and is not very good for asking questions. Too many people. A lot of the club members stay away that day.

What do you mean by *Im not a fan of using airplane trains to much?* 
I can understand if the idea of a bulky TX putting off someone who has never used that type of R/C. As you are experienced with stick radios, you will know there is no TX antenna to speak of and because they only use 4 x AA cells, are much lighter than they used to be. Plus they have fantastic range. Apart from the size of the TX, do you have something specific in mind that deters you from using them for trains?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Exile, you are new to all this. Reading your answers to Greg's questions, my response is do you really need to jump into the more advanced technologies? Get your feet wet and use DC analogue for a while. Your power supply should work for DCC. Find out what you want to run and then go to advanced options. I have been using track power for over30 years. I have three engines with battery so that I can take trains to other layouts. I am now using Bridgewerks power supplies with a remote for speed and direction. AristoCraft also has a remote. These remotes are between the power supply and the track. Modifications to the engine are not necessary. Take it easy and get up and running and then decide what is best for you. Do not commit to a technology as a beginner when in a year or two you may want to go in a different direction. They all work, but are not all suitable for all situations.
Chuck


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Sorry that was bad grammar, I did mean Im a little concerned about using the radios designed for aircraft, not the size so much but its usage, is there a problem with using Spektrum, or my Hitech Aurora (all i have left from selling most of my RC last week, 6 cars, trucks, crawlers and off roaders, 6 planes, 4 heli's







), that will cause issues when swapping between models, say for example I am on model 1 (a lyn) on the radio, and want to start up model 2 (another lyn), i swap models on the radio, will there be issues with model 1 picking up speed or slowing with the commands I wanted model 2 to do?

And one radio system I liked the look of was the Aristo Revolution, I looked at it on youtube and there were different looking ones, but this one I saw was more modern i would say, it had LCD screen and did a lot of control like dcc, consisting and all that sort of thing.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Mr Exile182, please e-mail me direct 
[email protected] 
Thanks Marty


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

If i go track power I figure I might as well go DCC, there are sets with DCC isn't there? from Bachmann? Id like to start simple, DC maybe a bit bland for me, had it on my N gauge and changed it reasonably quick, Im leading now toward DCC, since the cost of battery is quite high, and I get the best of both worlds on control and long running. Running at other tracks doesn't bother at this point, mostly because theres not a lot around, and its something for me to enjoy in my own yard for now, I don't want it to be a dive in hobby like the RC plane and car world is, would like to step up, but a bit of knowledge on power is needed to a point I guess. If i start on track power I could go battery at a later date. 

Oh and my names Wayne Clark, Ill add that to my signature I think, since my username gives no hints at all.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

OK. I understand. 
It is possible to have *ONE* Spektrum or Hi-Tec TX operate any number of locos. You can operate them one at a time or, when speed matched, ganged together in a MU consist. 
What you cannot do is select a particular loco at will and control it separately from another one. 
How most people using a stick radio get around that, is to simply switch off the loco(s) they don't want to use. 
If you want to add a helper loco for instance. Stop the train, switch off the train loco, bring up the helper and then switch the train loco back on again. 

Many manufacturers, including Crest Revolution, claim you can operate dozens of locos at the same time from one TX hand piece, and in theory you can. What they do not tell you is, in practice the human brain will find it extremely difficult to control (as distinct from switch on and let run) more than two things at the same time. 

Bear in mind also that the Revolution uses only pushbuttons to control speed, whereas stick radios have a proper Digital Proportional speed control. 
Bear in mind also that as far as I know you cannot buy Revolution over the counter here in OZ. That means importing it and that means no proper warranty.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Wayne, where do you call home? Let us know and more than likely there are locals who you can visit and talk to about and see your various options. Chuck


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok thanks, chuck I live in Australia, Ipswich near brisbane. 

Tony, I understand that now, I like the idea of one control to control 3 locos, I use it on my DCC N gauge and have gotten pretty good at it, it has a very similar layout plan as my garden layout plan (I only just noticed that). I would also like to add an extra hand set to my layout at some stage so as my wife can control locos as well. 

Marty, will do, sending it now.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

You could use your N DCC box to get you started and wet your feet. Once happy you could purchased another system more suitable for large scale.. 

Alan


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Would a dynamis system work? plus it is infrared wireless so it wont work outside well.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok how about this, I looked again for costs, and sets, sets are out as most are just DC, and not a fan of the locos. So what I would like what would I need to say set up a simple layout to have fun with and build up on over time, so say a 10ft diameter oval with maybe 4ft straight, a Loco, lyn or 0-4-0 from bachmann, obviously cars, prob 3 or 4. 
So with those things, what would I need for for battery and RC operation? 
I thought of an idea of having a smaller battery on the loco and adding a battery car for longer runs, so have the battery car hook up in parallel to the loco battery as well.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

The argument to start with analog DC makes a lot if sense. Least cost, anything you purchase will be ready to run. Almost nothing comes with DCC or RC. See if you can deal with track power OK. If you go battery you have a Pro on the same continent with Tony. We have been shipping quite a bit down under lately.


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## steam5 (Jun 22, 2008)

The Dynamis would work okay, 2.5A is enough to get started. No idea how well IR works outside. 

Do you already have a DC controller kicking around home? Anything will do to get you started, a min 12V, 1A will drive the small consist you described (assuming no smoke, steep grades or extra car lights). Even if in the short term you need to run an extension cord and and take the controller out in the yard you need to run it will get you started. Then you can run trains until you decided which way you go. 

I think you need to have a good read of DCC and battery control manufactures, also keep in mind some wireless products mentioned such as Airwire are not approved for use in Australia. 

If you want to give battery a go I have an old working RCS controller and receiver you could purchase if interested. Feel free to send me a private message on that if it interests you. 

Alan


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Wayne.

Seeing as how you already have the TX the only things you need are the ESC + RX, batteries and a charger plus a few bits and pieces for wiring the stuff in.
As it happens, just this day Master Instruments have guaranteed me that from now on the Li-Ion packs they make will have a low voltage cut off. So I can recommend them with confidence. Only problem is they are expensive. A$129 for a Twin Stick 4s 1500 mah pack mounted in the boiler space.
The Lyn is quite small by Large Scale standards and draws very little current. Way under 1 amp with 3 or 4 cars on the flat. I have been stuffing in 12 cells of ENELOOP AA Hybrid batteries and they give at least 2 hours. I would expect a 1500 mah Li-Ion 4s pack will run it for a bit less than two hours. It would be possible to have the charge jack at the rear and wired so that it doubles as a port into which you could plug bigger batteries in a trail car to extend run times.

Bachmann Lynn battery R/C installation[/b]

A suitable ESC is A$100 with the RX adaptor so it will work with a Hi-Tec system. Spektrum DSM2 and Planet RX's simply plug in upside down on the ESC.
If you don't already have a 12 cell + multi chemistry charger they will cost A$59 plus A$25 for a 2 amp plug pack.
The Lynn already has a speaker and a built in chuff timer so all you have to do is add sound. I have fitted both Phoenix P8 and MyLocosound to Lyn's.

A bit of internal surgery and plastic removal is required thanks to the left over moulding from the original first run tooling.

Cost of parts would be about A$ 200 plus RX, plus sound and a charger (once only) if you don't have one.

If that interests you I would do the install for you for gratis except for the cost of the parts. Once you see how to do one you will know what to do in the future yourself.
Bear in mind that you cannot mix brands of 2.4 GHz R/C. They are nearly all brand specific. The only commonality nowadays is the servos. They still work OK with any brand.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The IR won't work outside. The Dynamis has other issues when adding boosters. (See Trainboard)... 

I like Mike's suggestion. You basically can't lose unless you have to build the track the cheapest possible (aluminum) 

Greg


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

I have the original dial that comes with N gauge sets, its DC 16v, but im actually using that to power my turntable on the N gauge. I could have have a look at that RCS of yours Alan, that would be great. 

Mark I have been to your site, I actually have it book marked, I think maybe going to the AMRA on the 16th might be wise.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok Tony thanks, mind if I ask it like this? Reason Ill ask this way is I thought about it and figured this is how I think some people may want to know, if the have so much to spend, they are new, and would like to know how much to save up for or what they will get for the amount they are willing to spend, so I guess its a good way to get this out there and I might as well be the one to do it. 

Anyway, ok say I had a $500au budget, could I get for that? examples; a starter set or what track, loco, rolling stock, and power type. 

Then with same thought could I or someone else get for $1000? 

And again for $1500? 

And maybe end it at $2000 start up? 

I know it maybe hard with so many variables, but maybe keep in mind a beginner, after a beginning set up.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Wayne. 

I think I understand what you mean. However I am not the person to ask about acquiring the basic track and locos etc. 
I can only advise and help once someone has made up their mind as to what they want and is making up their mind what they want to do with it. 
I strongly recommend you assess all your options before laying down your cash. 
That is why getting to Zillmere on the 16th will prove fruitful for you. There will be 20 - 30 (maybe more) people there. Many of the attendees will be able to give you the basic information you need.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Quite understandable, maybe others could answer these questions, I think that is the problem with this hobby, seems that its a hobby that would do a lot better off with more standardization. 
I will definitely try and get in there, I want to find whats best for me and see what the options are first hand.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

If you do decide to go with a track powered starter set I will offer one bit of advice only. Stick with LGB locos. They are the best made longest lasting of all brands. Expensive yes but will give the best value for money and least problems of all the brands. The German (that is European) made LGB products are in general of better quality than the Chinese made ones.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Track power/dcc or battery all have advantages and disadvantages. I will say that Ive had zero problems running DCC in temperatures in ranging from 12 celcius to over 37. I installed 3 pairs of feeder wires when I laid the track, and that's it. I did have to install more wiring when I decided to automate a crossing, but otherwise three pairs of wires was more than enough


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Wayne 

You will learn in due course that a large part of the Large Scale community has fought against standards proposed or adopted by the NMRA, G1MRA, MOROP, or NEM. In general, they just want to play with their trains. So... other than a common track gauge the manufacturers PROUDLY go their own way. A glaring example outside the US was Aristo's manufacturing of the British Class 66 diesel locomotive. An extremely large percentage of the UK modelers doing British standard gauge use 10mm/ft [1:30.5] scale, yet Louis Polk insisted on producing the model in 1:29 scale...just because. And Yes, it does not look "quite right", but people buy it because it is the only thing on the market. 

In the early years of H0 in the US, the NMRA was formed in 1934 by a group of manufacturers, retailers, and the publisher of Model Railroader Magazine because they new that they needed interoperability to compete against the dominance of 0 scale. In the UK, you can see the fractured nature of small scale modeling in 00 4mm/ft [1:76 scale]. Most products are just 4mm 00 - running on 16.5mm gauge track [H0], but there is a large group of modelers using EM - 18mm, later 18.2mm, and now P4 [Proto4] -18.82mm, which is the correct gauge for 4mm/ft scale. 

Kevin Strong and a lot of other folks worked to get track standards adopted in the USA through the standards committee of the National Model Railroad Association [NMRA], but it is clear that they are pretty much ignored. In all fairness, it is hard to have a universal standard when the common track gauge is used for: 

[a] 1:32 scale standard gauge - CORRECT 
(b) 1:30.5 [10mm] scale standard gauge - [track is too narrow] 
[c]1:29 scale standard gauge - [track is too narrow] 
[d] 1:20.3 scale 36 inch narrow gauge - CORRECT 
[e] 1:24 scale 36 inch narrow gauge - [track is too wide] 
[f] 1:24 scale 42 inch Cape gauge - CORRECT 
[g] 1:22.5 scale 36 inch narrow gauge - [track is too wide] 
[h] 1:22.5 scale meter gauge - CORRECT 
[j]1:13.7 [7/8in/ft] scale 24 inch narrow gauge - CORRECT 
[k] 1:8 [1.5in/ft] scale 15 inch narrow gauge - CORRECT 

There are many choices to be made, and unfortunately in large scale, they may require a large investment, so experimentation may prove costly. There are many talented and knowledgeable folks on the MLS forums, and you will see that we all have our personal biases and personal favorites. In truth, hooking up with your "local" guys will yield the best results because you can see things "up close and personal". 
*
*Good luck in your foray into large scale. *

  *


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

I can't seem to get the editor to not put in the BOLD... sorry. been there three times trying to fix it 
EDIT .. Ah hah... cannot use [] with a b inside.. it turns on bold, just like [] with i turns on italics what a PITA


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Its not so much the size and scale that I mean for standardizing, but its hard to know how to put it, but ok, for example, RC planes in electric power have boomed, and sure enough adding speakers and sound came not long after, pretty much straight away it became a standard way of doing it, very simple. So to do it, it was, buy the plane, buy the motor, the esc, the battery, hook the sound to the receiver and away you go. This seems way more confusing. Not that it bothers me, I built a scale, 1/10 Land Rover Defender with 7.2v lipo, with working lights, with reverse, blinkers, head lights, spot lights, braking lights, and scale characters, even with their own RC trucks that are 1/10 scale in 1/10 scale if that makes sense. 

Tony, I would like to go to the feb 16th day, can I have the details? thanks


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Posted By Dr Rivet on 31 Jan 2013 07:31 AM 
I can't seem to get the editor to not put in the BOLD... sorry. been there three times trying to fix it 
EDIT .. Ah hah... cannot use [] with a b inside.. it turns on bold, just like [] with i turns on italics what a PITA


here in this forum you need to use html (stoneage edition). so a B or b in < > and < / >will do the trick.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Wayne. 
There is a degree of standardisation for the electronics in Large Scale trains. 
It is called Plug'n'Play. Standard PnP sockets are fitted to most AristoCraft trains and Bachmann Spektrum trains starting with the K-27. 
The sockets carry lighting controls. As well, the Bachmann PnP loco sockets have sensor connections for a sound system chuff. AristoCraft steam locos do not not have chuff sensors. 
Most steam sound systems can also use voltage variation to create a chuff sound. 
The diesels do not need sensors as diesel sound systems mostly all use voltage variation to determine engine revs. 
There are a number of PnP DCC decoders some with sound built in. 
The PnP AristoCraft Revolution now comes with steam or diesel sound. 
I make a PnP ESC that can be used with most non PnP sound systems such as Dallee, Phoenix and MyLocosound. 
For all other installations it is basically suck it and see. Hence the value of the installation articles I regularly write up.

The AMRA clubrooms are right beside the main North railway line in Zillmere on the South side of that line. Enter the property from the traffic lights. There is usually someone there at 9 am on the Sat to open up.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Oh yeah i think its getting there, but its not as simple as PnP yet, just slowly going that way, actually the pain in RC flying now with the new technology is similar, with the bind and fly BnF, where you buy a plane with everything in it, including receiver, but being it was based on the Spektrum brand, the other 2.4ghz guys couldnt buy those, and all the brands of RC used the Spektrum brand, but one bonus was it didnt take long for the other brands of radio, Hitech, Futaba, JR, to make modules to add to your RX so you could use those airplanes on your preferred radio. Its a numbers game I guess. 

I have found where it is, its shed looking thing isnt it, just over the bridge?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

If you have Googled the site you might be able to locate the elevated outdoors tracks slightly to the SE of the H0 clubrooms (shed). It is quite big but covered with trees. 
If you are coming from the South turn right at the lights. From the North it is a very sharp LH turn at the lights.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Yep, I would say that is it, will mostly likely be there unless something happens other wise.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Tony is there an entry fee for the Running day on the 16th?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes there is for attendees. It used to be A$3 plus lunch if a cooked meal was the order of the day. Now it is A$5 if you are running trains. AMRA may not ask you to pay the first time. Usually they are happy to have visitors stay for a little while to suss out if that is what they want to do or not. 
After that it will be a one off 12 month fee of A$20 and A$5 per visit. 
Plus eventually it is advisable to join AMRA as well.


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Ok thanks


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## Exile182 (Jan 26, 2013)

Hi Tony, every looks like its good to go, bringing the family along, and a couple of others who are interested.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Very good Wayne. 
Look forward to meeting you. I will have at least one customer loco for you to try. Just fitted a MyLocosound into an FA-1 that already had my battery R/C.


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