# Two Way or Three Way Switch Wiring



## Sedda (Oct 19, 2009)

Hi all. I am wondering whether anyone knows how to wire up what I think may be called a 3-way switch.


What I basically want to do is switch my railway between either the normal controller (LGB 1-amp) or via my Stationmaster control box (which is powered by the LGB controller). I need to do this as I seem to need to warm up my LGB Stainz train by itself before pulling the carriages when I use the railway once a week or so and I don’t seem to get full power through the Stationmaster.
I’ve tried to look it up on the Internet but can’t find what I’m looking for. I’m after either a 2-way switch or 3-way switch that will work with about 21 volts. One side of the switch would be for the LGB controller operation only and the other switch for the Stationmaster and maybe an off switch (although that’s not a real requirement).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Sedda, 

From your post it sounds as if you only want to run your train direct from the LGB controller to "warm it up" and that the Stationmaster control box doesn't give you full power....... 

I would try to get to the bottom of that rather than wire up a control to switch between the LGB transformer powering the trains directly and via the Stationmaster. 

Wiring a switch is easy enough, but the way I read your post, you would only use the direct connection to the LGB transformer to essentially start your trains running and then use the stationmaster from thereon. 
I think it would make more sense to figure out why the stationmaster causes a problem in the first place and why you don't get full power through it. 
Have you talked to RR-Concepts about that. 

As far as the switch is concerned, the voltage rating is usually not an issue for the voltages we use in Large Scale, just make sure the contacts of the switch are rated for at least 1 amp or more. 
You can use either a 2-way switch or a 3-way switch with a center-off position if that "off" function is something you want. 
The number of poles (or contacts) per position depends on the design of the stationmaster - if you need to switch both input and output leads, or only one set or maybe only bridge the stationmaster (ie short input and output). 

But as I said earlier - you shouldn't have the problem that you are having. 
If you correct that you don't need a switch at all. 

Knut


----------



## Sedda (Oct 19, 2009)

Hi krs. In the past I have contacted Curtis from RR-Conepts and he replied with the following: "When at full speed the train should run at 0.7 volts slower than straight from the transformer."

Maybe my loco doesn't run very well but it appears that that 0.7 volts is making all the difference. 

By the way, I still think it is slower than that though as (I think) there is a marked difference in performance. 

With the switch I guess I need the transformer wires to both run straight to the track and via the stationmaster to the track.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Do you have a voltmeter so you can measure the output of the LGB transformer at full throttle and the output of the stationmaster with the same LGB transformer at full throttle? 

The 0.7 volt drop that Curtis mentioned is what the voltage drop would be if everything works correctly, but you would never notice that in the speed or performance of the loco if it's really only 0.7 volts. 

When you run your Stainz with the LGB transformer only, does it keep running faster and faster even though you're not touching the throttle? 
Sounded like that from your initial post. 
If that is the case you have a problem with the loco that needs to be fixed. 

As far as the switch is concerned, to be on the safe side, I would switch both the input and the output of the Switchmaster, but with a single switch - or the better solution is to call Curtis back to see what he suggests. 
You can probably just wire the input of the switchmaster to the LGB transformer permanently and only switch the output - either the LGB transformer to the track or the switchmaster to the track. 

But I still think you're trying to fix something that shouldn't need fixing if the switchmaster worked correctly. 

Knut


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

If you still want to wire in a switch from two power sources. You need a double throw, double pole. DPDT A three way in the electrical industry is a switch that can control a light from two locations. The DPDT will have six terminals.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I would take the time to analyze the situation before I tried to fix it based on a guess. 

Get a volt meter and measure the voltages... you could put the loco on rollers and test the voltage to it straight from the transformer and through your controller. 

That will tell you what is wrong, or at least where to start looking. 

Greg


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 24 Jun 2012 07:40 AM 
A three way in the electrical industry is a switch that can control a light from two locations. 
Good point!
Never even thought of that since I only come across the term "three-way switch" for house wiring.
I equated Sedda's terminology of "three-way switch" in our hobby to a 3 position switch, ie a double-throw switch with a center off position.

But I think we all agree, Sedda shouldn't even need a switch for what he is doing.

Knut


----------



## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Sedda, 

1. What size wire are you using to install the StationMaster? 
2. How many StationMasters are on your layout? 
3. How many locomotives are you operating from the LGB 1A starter set transformer? 
4. On the attached instruction sheet, which Sationmaster installation are you operating? 
http://rr-concepts.com/images/pdf/ApplicationDiagrams.pdf 

Best regards, 
Bob


----------



## Sedda (Oct 19, 2009)

Posted By rwbrashear on 24 Jun 2012 09:47 AM 
Sedda, 

1. What size wire are you using to install the StationMaster? 
2. How many StationMasters are on your layout? 
3. How many locomotives are you operating from the LGB 1A starter set transformer? 
4. On the attached instruction sheet, which Sationmaster installation are you operating? 
http://rr-concepts.com/images/pdf/ApplicationDiagrams.pdf 

Best regards, 
Bob Thanks for the replies so far guys. I'm not sure I've got a volt meter but I'll see if I can scrounge one up.

The three way switch krs was talking about is what I was thinking of - sort of like off/speaker A/speaker B or similar. Can you get a DPDT switch from a hardware store or do I have to go to an electrical store and can they handle low voltages?

To answer your questions rwbrashear;

1 - I don't know but it sounds like maybe I need a heavier duty wire. It may be just a speaker wire or telephone wire but I'm not sure. 
2 - Just one station master on one pretty small loop of track.
3 - Just the one LGB Stainz loco that has had the motor replaced about 6 months ago.
4 - The ones on those pages are very complicated. I only have one stationmaster with one station stop. This is the page http://rr-concepts.com/StationMaste...Stop.shtml


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Sedda, 

I would strongly suggest you buy a meter and do some basic measurements to find the root cause of the problem. 

Digital multimeters are cheap - a basic one for $15.- or $20.- is fine. Just make sure you get one that takes a readily available battery and has some decent test probes. 
You will be using that meter over and over again in the future to troubleshoot anything electrical. 

The way we're going now is just trying with some educated guesses. 
If the loco runs fine with just the power pack but runs slow with the Station Master, the problem is either with the Station Master itself or the wiring from the Station Master to the track or that track connection. 

You can try disconnecting the wire from the Station Master to the track at the Station Master end and connect that to the power pack to see how the loco runs. 
That would tell you if that wire and that track connection is OK. 

Knut


----------



## Sedda (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks for the help so far guys.









I had a bit of a chance to look into it today (Sunday morning here in Oz). 

To start with I couldn't find my multi-meter so I swapped the wiring over to what may have been something a bit more solid but that didn't make a difference.

After having a proper look for my multi-meter (instead of my previous man look) I did find it and tested things with something I think was close to what I was supposed to be testing (a 50VDC scale) with my train running.

The 20VDC red LGB 1-amp power pack measured just over 20VDC when the train went past the wire connection to the track but on the other side of the loop it measured around 12VDC.

I then tested the input into the stationmaster (with the newer wiring) which resulted in the same voltage peak and drop.

I then measured the output from the stationmaster to the track and there was only a very slight drop and probably in line with the 0.7VDC drop that Curtis (RR-Concepts) mentioned going down to about 11VDC on the far side of the loop. 

So it appears, at the least, that there is a definite voltage drop to the far side of the loop. Is this normal? If not, what is the best way to fix it? Is it simply a matter of running another length of wire from the stationmaster output to the far end of the loop? 

The other thing that still perplexes me is that either the loco or something else (transformer/stationmaster/track??) takes a while to warm up. 

If I think about it, there may be a combination of the loco needing to warm up and a drop off in voltage to the far side of the loop combining in the loco not pulling the train around when I first switch the layout on. This is also exacerbated by a slight uphill climb from where the train stops in my shed during the week.

Sorry for the long winded post. Any thoughts guys?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, fix your rail joiners and add another feeder to the other side.... fix them first since you clearly have SEVERAL bad connections... 

So, get the voltage drop fixed, and then add the feeders. 

Greg


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

How big is your loop? 

You definitely need to fix the rail joiners as Greg suggested and running a feeder to the other side doesn't hurt but it's really only necessary if your loop is quite large and the feeder can be made fairly short. 

What I want to comment on most is this: 
The other thing that still perplexes me is that either the loco or something else (transformer/stationmaster/track??) takes a while to warm up. 

Why do you think anything needs warming up? 
Certainly none of the items you mentioned. 

Knut


----------



## Sedda (Oct 19, 2009)

I will check the joiners probably next weekend now as the rain has set in here.









krs, The loco definitely goes faster after a number of laps of the circuit. I'm thinking it may be that the loco takes a while to warm up or maybe the loco somehow cleans up the track a bit when it starts going (as I don't tend to clean the track before operation if I can help it).

Here is a quick video with part of the layout and a long video of the track layout but from the perspective of the loco. I'm not sure it will help.

Quick overview 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vlF...ature=plcp 

Driver view 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-5-...ature=plcp


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

A hint, since you have a loop, any one point on the track can be fed from 2 different directions. Disconnect the tracks at the far side of the loop (furthest away from your feed point) 

Now debug the bad joiners, you can do it with a loco, or a load at the far end of the track... after you have debugged the joints then reconnect the rails. 

This "dual path" has flummoxed many a model train engineer. 

Greg


----------



## Sedda (Oct 19, 2009)

Sorry that I haven't replied here sooner but last weekend I cleaned all the joiners and the train is now running like clockwork. I still ran the loco by itself for two laps this morning to see if it would slow down or stop and it ran great.

So thanks everyone for your help.


----------

