# Have you given it any thought to what you'd do if you had to move?



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

We moved into our dream home 6 years ago. We bought a $500,000 house for $400,000. We thought the housing market couldn't get any worse. Then the wife lost her job in May 2008. 6 months later I lost my job. I went 16 months with out a job. The wife was out of work for over 24 months. And the house? It's now worth 190 -200,000. So we are looking to do a short sale. The wife and I make half what we use to make.

I really thought I'd live in this house till the day I died. Boy was I wrong.

If I had thought I'd have to move, maybe I wouldn't have collected so much.

109 pcs of G
56 pcs of S
25 pcs of HO
another 100 pcs of toy trains
2800+ toy cars.
A couple hundered caricature cows plus hundreds of Tweety birds
Throw in a bunch of Colbalt Blue Glass and the packing is over wellming.

I'm into my third week of packing up the toy room and still not done. My son Jason has helped by packing up all the G stuff.

I hope to have the toy room cleared out by Sunday. 

We'll be moving into a rental house somewhere. Being the house will be smaller, the garage will be our storage shed.
Chances are there will not be a fenced in back yard so running the G trains will be unlikely.

So while boxing everything up, I'm thinking, I may never see a lot of this stuff again. I mean, I'm turning 59 next month and can't see owning another house for the next several years, if ever.

So if you new you were going to have to move, would you have collected so much?


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

That's not an option


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

Randy, 

I feel your pain. I had to move three and a half years ago. Though the house was a step up, the resulting depreciation has resulted in over 25% loss in value. I have stuff in boxes that may never see the light of day. Then there is the list of projects that My Reason For Life has developed for me that is as long as the mortgage. 

We had planned to double up on mortgage payments to buy down the house prior to retiring, because we bought when the market was at its peak and could not qualify for a 15 year mortgage. 

Now we are facing a budget deficit at work, where both our jobs are in danger of regressing in salary. We talk about selling (whether short or not) and moving closer to the kids. I dread the posiibility of cleaning out my stuff to move. I have collected for the last 54 years, always with big intentions, and low performance. But, I don't think I would modify the amount or variety of the stuff I have collected. If anything, I regret having to get rid of some it in prior moves. 

For the longest time (25 years), I was in the wood products industry, where we moved every couple of years. I always collected stuff, because I had the big plans, with low motivation. So knowing I would be moving, did not impede my collecting. 

I just wish I ws more motivated to get the stuff into operation. 

Fil


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

I told the wife to build the house the way you want it because we are not moving again.
Been here 28 years, everything is paid for. The only way I'll move again is if I hit the
lottery for 50 million.

Don


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## ROUTE 66 (Sep 26, 2008)

Randy,
on the bottom line of your paragraph the real question is posed *"if you knew your were going to move would you have collected so much?"* And the answer would be *no* I wouldn't collect so much and I wouldn't unpack most of it I would just leave it in boxes waiting for the next move. There are alot of what-if situations in a life time. All my moves have been calculated and my choice I wasn't backed up against a wall and forced to make such a decision. I could say I would just have an estate sale and lighten the load,but that is only easy to say when your not in those shoes. I was just telling the wife yesterday I would like to just live a minumalistic life a lazy boy a coffe table,no clutter to dust,or stuff to avoid as I walk the path through life,and every time I buy something I say I have enough,trains,diecast cars and I am going to stop buying as I sit here waiting for the postman to bring me things I ordered just last week,heck I deserve them,Lets face it I can justify them as my early Christmas present,or since I haven't made the last 2 train shows because of other obligations,I'm just making up for what I missed not buying at the shows and the money I saved not going? I don't have the answers to what you and your wife are dealing with, all I know packing up is one miserable experiance,Oh.... and those comical cows??Love 'em!! I just about started buying them years ago but didn't!!May things Brighten up for you and when you unpack them somewhere down the road I hope they will still bring you joy as you mutter under your breath, why did I collect so much stuff!! Health is worth more than anything you will ever aquire


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## cjwalas (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm 58 and also about to sell the house and move to another state. Fortunately, we're in a better shape than you and we'll be buying another house. But that still doesn't change the fact that I simply have too much stuff. Not just trains, models, toys, collectibles, fishing equipment and the like, but also a large amount of tools and work material. Packing has begun and it's simply an overwhelming job. Years ago, I helped a friend clean out his parents house after they passed away. It was an eye-opener. They had never thrown a thing away and the house was packed to the gills with "stuff". I learned then that I needed to begin the thinning process. After what must be ten years or so, I still have way too much stuff. So in answer to your question, I wouldn't have wanted to collect so much stuff, but I'm not sure I could avoid it. 

I do sympathize with your situation and I hope things take a turn for the better for you and yours. 
Chris


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

When I bought this place I felt that things were going to fall apart. It just took longer than I predicted. 

I went in as cheap as I could go. 44 k for the lot, 45k for the house and 15k for lot improvement. I put about 15 K down. 


I never re financed or drew out money from the equity. I had no debt absolutely none at the time at the time I bought this place. 


Two years ago come November I was let go after 25 years.

I struggled the first year making payments.

Now SS is enough to make the house payment and all my utilities and leaves me about 700 bucks left over.


I canceled Dish Net work ( don't miss it as much as I thought) Turned off Airconditioner and went to Swamp Cooler to reduce the electric bill. Stopped Propane gas ( Got too expensive to fill tank) 

I use a space heater in my office, and electric blankets on my bed and couch when I watch TV. 


I fix printing presses for lunch and train money. 

If I had to move I have a paperback book collection, couple of antiques, my computers , the trains, a cup collection from my travels, Lots of tools, I would probably dump the furniture, 



Packing to move right now would not be that difficult. 


So now I just take it day by day. 

JJ


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I've moved 3 times in 5 years. Some stuff never got unpacked. If you want to discuss storage problems, try an 11 x 60 mobile home with no closets, and an 8x10 shed.... We got rid of some stuff, sold a few bits, but most of what's left is stuff I'm simply NOT letting go of for 20c on the dollar. 

BTW, Even in a rental you can sometimes have an outdoor layout IF you discuss it first with the landlord. Just don't leave out stuff that is likely to walk away.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

stupid connection hiccuped


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

gotta love connections that go squirelly when the wind blows, sorry!


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear things are so rough. I faced the fact that I had way way to much stuff a couple years ago and have been trying to sell down a good deal of my collection since. As a result I sold off almost all of my larger full size trains and held onto only the smaller sized items. My layout today is very small, easily dismantled, I have also sold or given away alot of bike and model making stuff just trying to down size. The hardest part has been trying to get the wife to do the same but she seams genetically incapable of letting things go.


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## cape cod Todd (Jan 3, 2008)

I think many of us live on the precipice of this recession/depression and I have thought about "what if" many times. I'm sorry to hear about what you are going through Rlvette it is depressing. Lousy economy. For me I have cut back on trains but I still enjoy today for as my uncle says "tomorrow is promised to no one" . 
I have a nice collection that I would be hard pressed to get rid of but there are also many not so exclusive items that I could sell off if needed and rebuy down the line when things got better. 
Good luck.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've always thought "where there's a will, there's a way." I've lived in my share of apartments here and there, and I still managed to keep my enthusiasm for the hobby. I've always made sure I have a small workshop (as small as a closet) for my modeling. The local clubs I've belonged to have always provided outlets for operations when I've not had a railroad of my own. Even if it's an annual trip to Marty's or Diamondhead or something like that; some place where you can show up and run your favorite train--there's always an avenue to enjoy the hobby if you're committed enough to it. 

Having said that, I've often thought that if I were to be in a situation where modeling outdoors wasn't going to be an option (and likely wouldn't be for quite some time) I'd sell all but my favorite few pieces to have just in case the opportunity to run them arose, and switch to modeling On30. 

But in terms of the possibility of having to move having an impact on what I collect, not really. One never knows what cards life will deal you, so I just plan on playing things as they are now and how I'd prefer them to go. 

Good luck as things unfold for you. 

Later, 

K


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## bnsfconductor (Jan 3, 2008)

Given that I just experienced something like this although more voluntary to attend grad school out of state, I can understand the frustration. My wife and I are renting out our house while I go to school and as a result all but 1 locomotive and a caboose are packed up and in storage. But I did bring enough train stuff to keep me in the hobby, and working on stuff that I will use in the future when I can rebuild my layout. It's frustrating not being able to work on big projects or not to have a large area to work in, but as Kevin says it's always easy to get a spot on the table or in the closet just to keep things interesting. My projects are things that I most likely would get to at home because they are too 'minor'. But now the small projects now become important. I think as long as you are interested in the hobby you can find a way to be involved. I've already meet two different modelers that told me I could come and run at their layouts if I wanted too. 

Craig


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## tj-lee (Jan 2, 2008)

JJ, 

> So now I just take it day by day. 

Ain't that the truth! You and me both. 

Best, 
TJ


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I understand your situation. No one in my business (environmental consulting) is working in this economy because there is no new development and I've probably done 15 percent of a normal year in business this year. Luckily we have other sources of income and everything, including the house, is paid for.

But if I did have to move, I would offer the railroad with the house as an additional cost if the buyer so desired. I would offer the track/layout at one cost, and a seperate cost for the structures and rolling stock. If they didn't want it, I would pull it up, and at their option bust out the concrete (removing the lakes, rivers, and waterfalls), which would only take a couple hours.

I've not collected beaucoup stuff, but if I had to liquidate, I would first try to auction or sell it off through our Garden Railroad club knowing that it would go to good homes of friends. Alternatively, I may offer it as a collection to someone like BridgeMasters, who buy up collections. That way it all goes and you don't end up with a bunch of odds and ends.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Todd you bring up a good point. Layouts that are built on 2-3 foot incresed elavations could be major issues when selling a house. 

Let's face, it, very few buyers will have any interest in our trains. So those walls will have to come down. All those truck loads of dirt will have to be removed. 

For me, there was no out door layout to get back into shape, but for those woth established outdoor layouts, it could be far more work, than just packing and hauling off to storage.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I started Colelcting my trains when I was in an apartment. From there we moved into a house...A divorce later and she got the house & I got to keep the trains. So from a small room and a stoarge unit to another small room. Then to a girlfriend, with a slitghtly larger apartment & no storage unit. Onward to being engaged, married & pregnant and moving into a slightly larger rental with enough storage. Another move into our own place finally. Now 7 moves later I've finally got a small layout that is in plans of getting larger. The company I work for has it's up and downs but is doing well enough. Wife works for the local casino which also has it's up's and downs. My mother lives with us now and with two growing kids and the wife going back to school part time times are tight but we manage. A friend from lodge is trying to open a "hobby shop" locally. He is currently only taking consignments so I've sorted thru some things that I'm certain I'll not use at this point. Two more boxes in the car as I type to drop off to him today actually. So while ti is unlikely that I'd need to move we could do it if need be...lots of experience doing it. 

Chas


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Given the state of the American economy, has anyone been to DisneyWorld Florida lately? Are the crowds noticeably thinner? Has Disney laid off staff? 

Re trains: 

I am glad that I bought what I did when I did as prices have generally doubled for the non Bachmann items. I did waste money upgrading my trains as more advanced products came to market but that is part of the train hobby for all scales. 

Historical pricing example of some Bachmann items from TrainWorld: Bachmnn Indy 90.00, saddle tank loco 80.00, Anniversary loco 140.00 ( 160.00 Bee Version ), Climax 350.00, Heisler 350.00, J&S coaches 40.00. The Climax has now risen to 750.00 !, the J&S coaches rose to 60.00, the Indy rose to 160.00 (improved product) and the Anniversary loco is still around the same price. In the Bachmann line, only the Climax and new Forney are now extremely pricey. 

As for any future expensive loco purchases by myself: not possible! I don't know how Accucraft is going to make out in the long term. The latest Aristo Craft Consolidation is not inexpensive either! I think Bachmann missed their opportunity and should have created their stable of locomotives when new molds were affordable to design and laser cut. Bachmann could now simply offer repaints to pay off early production molds created when mold costs were affordable. The latest Bachmann Forney at 650.00, through TrainWorld, tells me that any new future loco designs from Bachmann will no longer be reasonably priced for a plastic loco product severely restricting sales. 

The economy will eventually improve. I am guessing in nine years or so. The massive European debt is going to drag the World economy down further before it recovers. Unfortunately, the worst has not yet been seen or experienced. The key is to look long term and to realise that our pain will not be permanent. Now if the U.S. Government would only prosecute some of those corrupt bankers and brokers who created those mortgage backed securities which were in reality backed by massive frauds ! Those Wall Street folks have caused so much pain to so many people. 


Norman


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

Hmmmmm, I have had to give this some thought AND have gone to put it into motion as well. 
Thankfully, most of my G scale empire was already packed up from an attempt B-4 to move. That one was by my choice, but fell short on the funding. But this time I didn't have much choice, that is unless I wanted to: Stay in an area without a job with the prospect of if lucky, finding only a job that pays minimum wage or close to that. Also in a condo with an extremely unfair HOA and to piss my inheritance away and not be happy. BTW the complex is becoming more and more like a getto each time I vist to pick up another load. The Pitbull is the latest status symbol at Windhover condos. Anyway on the move We found that trying to save money by "doing it yourself" renting trailers and trucks for a more out of state 500 miles away was very time consuming and back breaking. But when considering staying in FL at the condo, I think it was well worth it







We still have one last med. sized trucks worth to move and perhaps a couple pick-up + trailer loads left to do.

Moving away from FL is the best thing any decent American person could do. FL is for tourists and illegals. I'm glad we left. Now we have our own house on an acre of land and lots of room to build and store stuff. It's quieter and more peaceful than living in the city. There may be nice places in FL, but Orlando is NOT one of them. With this move, my G scale modeling will move indoors from out with the possibility of a line connected thru the wall and outdoors in the future. I spent enough time recovering from near heat exposure outdoors while playin' trains. I will NOT make that mistake again







But an outdoor line would open the possibility of plowing snow in the winter - yes it DOES snow a bit here in Possum Snout









As far as the financial outlook goes, who knows. We all could be in trouble someday







It kinda looks like our Goverment won't stop thier BS until we all work for them and they take everything away from us. Kinda like a flip between us and the former USSR- ok, that's all I'll say on that one just my view. But soon, we too will have to go back to work doing something so we can save our nest egg and live comfortalbly. So to some it up, Moving was (and still is) a pain for us, but it was WELL worth it !!!!

Rocky


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have a faint recollection of some lady who had a rather large layout, selling the house and the layout to one of the basketball team members of the Phoenix Suns. I think her original occupation was that she raised horses. In fact she had a model of the ranch in the layout. 

JJ


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

My place is paid off, my expenses low. I don't anticipate moving, but if I did, I very much doubt I'd have anywhere near the room I do now. 

I have come up with a track plan that would pack a fair amount into a space as small as 12 x 12. If I did have to move, I'd probably give it a whirl. 

But at the moment, by my standards, I'm actually doing fairly well, so here I stay.


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## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Rocky: 

I have visited DisneyWorld three times. On the third visit I decided to drive through Orlando. Orlando was quite the culture shock for a Canadian! 

1) I found several city blocks completely leveled. I asked a local as to what had happened. The local explained that the Police had tried for years to purge the neighbourhood of drug dealers and drug houses to no 
avail. So, Olrando City Council expropriated the neighbourhood and leveled it! This is known as urban renewal. The first new structure was a Mc Donald's restaurant standing all there by itself in a massive area of 
emptiness. 

2) During daylight, I was walking in a City Park and admired the fountain and pond. There was a Policeman on foot patrol. So I went over to speak with him explaining that I was from Canada. The Policeman explained 
that foot patrol is required throughout the Park's opening hours. Amazed me. Up here in Canada, if one needs a Policeman, they are callled as required. 

In Miami, I noted the massive number of Police cars on the street. A local explained that the Police force was previously reduced and the crime skyrocketed. So the solution was to flood the streets with Police. Of a somewhat humourous note, I was told of a local Bank which is famous for being robbed ONLY ONCE years ago. The escaped challenged criminals did not observe that the Bank is located on a Penninsula such that when the Bank was robbed the Police simply blocked off their only EXIT ! Duh. 

If possible, I would love to live in Florida but in a gated community for safety and piece of mind. The constant threat of crime really stressed me out during my Florida visit. I had to be aware of my surroundings at all times. 

Up here in Ottawa, the Capital of Canada, I can take the City Bus and walk the downtown streets alone at any hour of the night without any fear of crime. The most dangerous place to be would be in a bar to possibly be threatened by a drunk! I guess the cold Ottawa winters are a trade off to have personal safety but I really like the Florida climate. I love heat and humidity! 

However, I noted that the main streets are covered with fast food restaraunts for the massive tourist business. Great for the tourist but an eyesore for the permanent residents. 


Norman


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## bottino (Feb 7, 2008)

This is an interesting thread, as I am right in the middle of a planned move from Delaware to the southwest corner of Utah. This will happen the week after thanksgiving. Presently I have most of my engines and rolling stock packed either in their boxes, or wrapped with bubble wrap. I have taken up 300 ft of stainless steel track, but am still running trains. (and buying trains) This move was our choice, and after one and one half years on the market our house is sold. Our new house is built, and waiting for us. I paid and extra premium for a larger lot, so the trains will go back up starting next spring. My layout here is mostly on the groundbut with some elevated. The elevated part will be taken down, as well as the mountain, campground and tunnel, but the new buyer says I can just leave the ground the way it is. there are rocks and gravel ballast but it is pretty level. The leaves will cover it up and it will look like there was never a railroad there. It is kind of hard to take down in a couple months what took 9 years to build. I have always envied the many layouts I have seen in the Phoenix valley, and hopefully my new layout will look a lot like several of them. It's all good.
Paul


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## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

I should add in that when I first moved down to the area of Orlando by Universal studios 12 years ago the neighborhood was not so bad. The HOA at the condos was ok and fair too. Just the weather was a bit too much for me. I almost ended up in the hospital from heat stroke that first summer when I started to build the "little big layout" out back of the condo. That move down to FL was easier too as I had a moving company do the work to move my stuff down from MN. I also had only about 1/4 of what I have today for G scale - a big difference there too. But time changed over the last 12 years and the police said that the moving in of the criminal element happened when Walmart moved in just a mile or so up the road. The drug problem of crack also was just on the verge of becoming popular with the public as well. I guess 911 and then the crash of the economy also didn't help much. Over the years I lived thru some tough times, my brother passing away in '03, a failed marriage that started when I moved down - (we all make bad choices sometimes), the change in the neighborhood which I mentioned and it ended with my mom passing away in March. Everything changed and Mom's wishes was that everything was to be sold and split between her kids. That ended my job. So it was time to move on and move away. Deb and I do miss a few things from down there like the church we went to in Coaco beach, the hockey games in Tampa and we had a few real good friends too. But you can always make new friends, the hockey games are on Direct Tv and so on. The change from there to here is and was hard. But our stress level has gone down and we are much happier up here. So moving can be a pain, but in the long run can be a very good thing









Rocky


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Posted By GN_Rocky on 26 Oct 2011 09:23 AM 
...So moving can be a pain, but in the long run can be a very good thing









Rocky

yes, if one is moving TO somewhere.
but for those, who have to move FROM somewhere it can be traumatic.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I moved more times than I care to think about. I knew with the job I had that a move can come at any time. That never stopped me from adding to my trains weather it be G scale or HO. I built many of HO layouts that got torn down and moved and rebuilt only to be tore down again. It never bothered me as each move gave me better ways to build a RR. Same with G scale. Couple of moves and now I got a good RR. Now that I'm retired I shall see no need to move again. Almost did move just before retiring but then the kids moved some where else so I said we shall now stay in the warmer climate and the heck with Michigan. Ya if I won the lottery I'd move in a hart beat even with all my trains and other hobby stuff. No biggie packing been there done that no problem. Later RJD


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## lotsasteam (Jan 3, 2008)

some thoughts about moving: i would keep ca 300ft of track with some of my Steam and Battery powered Locos,some rolling stock in an easy to transport container and would spend some weekend camping trips here in the west deseret(Oops forgot to include propane mix,destilled water, steamoil , and lots of cold beer!!!) 

Manfred


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## Brandon (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm just into my 30's so I don't have the same life experiences as others but when the housing market started going nuts I thought it would never come down and I may never afford the home I wanted so I put everything I had saved up since I was 15 and worked full time ever since and spent it on a house that's lost 30% of it's value and I'm pretty maxed out on monthly expenditures. Moving in I didn't have a lot of stuff. I didn't have a dining set for a year, no living room furniture or bedroom set for 5 years (just a bed in the middle of the room and that was it). I had a kitchen table I bought at a scratch and dent store for an office table and that was it. Everything I've done in the yard I did myself, everything from concrete slabs to the pond, electrical and sprinklers. 

I haven't had TV in 5 years and I don't miss it actually. I did development for Linux and HDTV before I moved to my new home but I live in the shadow of a mountain and can't get reception for OTA and there was no cable. I've found life is better without all the news about bad things going on and I've learned to make drastic cuts in spending. I've really enjoyed having less and it's made me think of what I can get rid of and do without. My biggest expense is hobbies. RC planes and railroading. The items I have bought are things that will last and when it comes to nicknacks I offer them to my nephews. I've given many of my toys I thought I'd save for when I have kids (hoping still to one day) to others because it's not worthwhile to store. Sure I did keep a few but storage does take up a lot of space. There are some things I'll store until I die including some items from my father. They stay on display in an area of the house and I think I have enough items to display that I don't need more. Life is simpler with less in my opinion. I sometimes think about selling my house and getting a condo because there is less to maintain and worry about. I can be out spending time with others and hobbies instead of maintaining. 

So with the question if we'd keep as much stuff if we knew we'd move? I'd say I'd keep less even if I knew I wouldn't move, but I'd take it one step further and say I wouldn't buy something that I already have something else for that can fill that void. There's a million kitchen gadgets but I find opening a can by hand more thrilling than using an electric can opener. I'm finding less is often more if you can realize having more, bigger, or better really does nothing in the long run of having a good life as finding other things that make you happy. Kids play video games, I'll be honest and say I miss a good game of kick the can at times and being outside and I would give almost anything to be able to say I'm bored once more.


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## Brandon (Jul 6, 2011)

One other note, as for trains I'd still keep everything I had. I'd probably be depressed if I had to leave something I cared about but only if I knew I'd never have a chance to build another railway. I was hoping to do an 800+sqft ho layout and had been planning on it for about 20 years and that idea went out the door earlier this year and had I not picked up G scale I would have always missed it until I was older and realized trains probably mean little compared to relationships I have. If I lost everything I would also be fine because I'd have my memories and I think that's the best thing anyone can have. If I lose my memory, well, I won't remember that memories were important so I'm set for life.  And one note on having to do something more than once, I hate it, I like to do things once perfectly and if I know I might have to do it a second time I make sure the time spent the first time is with people and/or I enjoy every moment of it. I think that's why I like vacationing to the same place over and over when I really like experiencing new things and that's because doing something a second time brings back memories I like so doing things again is just a good way to relive past memories. I think we've all lost things over the years, from maybe a train we liked that just wouldn't run anymore to the perfect cut of steak we left a little to long on the grill. There's that saying that you really don't know what something is worth until you've lost it. I know in my life had I not struggled so much I wouldn't appreciate some things as much. Some kids today have everything easy and I think it's pretty easy to see that they're not as happy as we were when we were kids. It takes the lows to appreciate the highs and vice versa, but for me the more stuff I have the more out of control my life feels and the faster it goes by. The only way my life feels relaxed is when I have nothing to worry about and the more stuff you have the more you potentially have to worry about. I just got back home from a friends where I was helping him finish a basement. He is better off financially and has more spare time than me but it's nice to forget about what I have or don't have and focus on helping someone else. Good memories.


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## Brandon (Jul 6, 2011)

Disneyworld is actually expanding right now. They took a small hit a couple years back when Universal opened Harry potter and the US economy became a variable shortly after but because the dollar has devalued so much in the last 2 years the amount of foreign travelers to Disneyworld has gone up quite a bit. Disney is building a new economy lodge with I think around 1000 rooms. Also Disney did lay off a few hundred of the higher paid managers a couple yesrs ago but they do seem to keep an eye out for the future and retask many employees to alternate jobs and discounts/marketing to keep things moving. Seaworld though has taken a _huge_ hit and attendance is down over 30% and they are struggling. Some countries have been hurt by the US economy but for people traveling here it's a real bargin right now. I'd also have to agree with you Norman that we're a good decade away from things getting back on track. The government is spending tax payers into debt that I wonder how long it will take to recover. I think the biggest help right now is there are a lot of small businesses who are still functioning well and those individuals are moving money through the cities. I've made an effort to spend more of my money on things that go to individuals rather than larger chains since the people with less money are the ones more likely to spend it and keep money and services flowing vs people who have enough money and put it away instead of spending it right away.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

So Brandon, 
How do you really feel? (said with a smile) 

At 61 many things I see rekindle old memories, the life of a pack-rat can be rewarding, if ya keep the right stuff. 
Probably take another old coot to want what I have en mass... just trains are; Z, Nn3, HO, On3 and G24 

I'm planning on dying here in 3 or 4 decades and somebody else can discard my long forgotten memories. Hopefully by then my grand nephews will appreciate my antiques. 

Happy Rails. 
John


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Unfortunately the government is "spending the taxpayers into debt" because so many folks currently NEED the social safety nets, and the Pentagon apparently "needs" spendy toys to break more than we (or even most of the rest of the world combined!) do....and nobody with money wants to pay for ANY of it. (Revenues are way down due to stuff like the recession and compounded by the tax pledge folks) --- But, please, don't let that get in the way of a perfectly good rant. Social Darwinism is pretty much an accepted faith with folks who can afford a hobby like this... except when it isn't. I'm sure brother Randy somehow 'deserved' to get hosed for 'buying a house he can't afford', too.Right?
Except, funny thing, real life isn't always "fair". Good folks often get screwed. Bad folks often succeed. "Trickle down" doesn't work, trickle up has all too well. And those asking for a better deal aren't any less "real Americans" than those who think the current wildly unbalanced status quo is just ducky. Having your life turned upside down through no fault of your own is pretty traumatic. Having some yahoo spout smug, self-righteous pap at you sure makes it all a lot better.(not) Both happen entirely too often. 


Now a few of you are saying, "but we never said.... to Randy"...I'd ask how saying it about folks you don't know is somehow better? (And I HAVE heard THAT from some of you, especially in chat) See that's the problem with the popular 'conservative' mantra. It assumes that while the DoD needs more toys, the person who can't afford nice toys doesn't really need dignity. And that's also why politics is mostly verboten, because sooner or later somebody is going to call you on it.


Moving voluntarily sucks, being forced to relocate because somebody else turned your life upside down is twice as bad. Actually thinking before you speak... priceless. 


Think about it. We're all in this world together. A gated community is one thing. A closed mind/heart is another. One man's pork is usually another's essential service. And NOBODY is entirely 'self-made' we all got help from somebody, and benefit from a stable society.


Randy, I'd offer to help you pack, but it's a really long commute.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Mik, it's a long comute right now, but it won't seem so long in Jan when I'm sitting out side drinking marqurittas while you up north shoveling snow. 

Also, let's try to keep the political crap out of this thread please. The thread was meant to be about how much we collect and the thought of having to pack it all up when we have to move.


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