# STILL?? another ladder roadbed thread?



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I know, but I have been wanting to try it. 
Donny did his a better way but I used what I had left over in stoock Trex and bought smaller pipe in which I will fill with runny mortar mix to make them stiffer. 
This is the new scenic branch line heading to the old Highline on the north end of the RR. 
I wanted a clear view of the sky for photos and a place where steamers would love videoing trains on the move. "operating" up the grade. 
I used a 3/4" board taped on the end of my 4ft level so I think its a 1.5% ?? not sure. 











And yes I am still tring to get the RR ready for Sept but I lost interest in that. 










Switch is just south of the grain elevator. 20ft min dia and will not be running,,,well,,maybe,, by Sept. who knows. 
But this labor day weekend I wanted a fun project. 
All rocks will be concreted in as a stone face cliff like, hopfully.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

That looks like a very nice place for some great images. Marty.... I'm trying to picture where the line will be going. Does it connect back into the high line near the back fence? If that's it, it sure will be a nice long run....


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Goes to ,,heaven. 
My camera shutter did not open all the way?????? need to clean it. 

Has anyone tried using GMM gurders on 20' dia curves???? 
12" or 24" not sure how it would work?


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 
Lookin' Good ! 

I will bring my digital %-grade level with me for the meet. It will be able to check spot grades all around the line. 

JimC.


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By NTCGRR on 08/29/2008 7:04 PM
Goes to ,,heaven. 
My camera shutter did not open all the way?????? need to clean it. 
Has anyone tried using GMM gurders on 20' dia curves???? 
12" or 24" not sure how it would work?




Steve uses them on his layout for a big curve. I'm not sure of the diameter but I would guess around 16'. 



















-Brian


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Marty 
Do you have a spot picked out for me to build you a concrete wall, something like where you have the ladder system going around the mound of dirt, or any area that you have that may even be a little steeper. If I recall on one of your post you said you have sand, is that correct? I will need 6 bags of portland. I will bring rebar and the builders lath mesh and the fasteners to fasten it together. I have my own cement mixer, but I will need your wheel barrel, As a builder i am sure you have a extension cord for my mixer 1/3 hp. I need to keep the mixer to where I can get a water hose for wash up. I will bring 100 foot of hose. 
I will bring two four foot x 16 inch retainer wall section. We need a place where we can add these it does not have to be straight, in fact a jog at the joint works best, when finish with this you can add 18-20 inches of dirt behind the wall. I will be adding to the top of the wall so it will look like canyon wall. Let me know if you have any questions. 
I will be there to get started on Friday 
Dennis


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 

What size pipe are you using? Thats going to look pretty nice going around that hill.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Don 
3/4" or 1 1/8" OS ,$2.19 a stick. 
Brain, 
I think Steve is his own best customer. And after seeing his N scale layout I'm suprised he even does G.


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## Kevin Miller (Jan 5, 2008)

Marty, I like the ladder system too. Sure makes it easier to get nice curves. I used 2x2 treated posts to support mine and for some reason part of them are rotting out. So I am going to remove the ballast and pour concrete between and on both sides of the ladder.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thats funny , I was just going to write I don't like this method because filling around it takes to much time. If I had done all the dirt work prep first , I would have been laying track by now. 
This is a TEST for me. 
I still like concrete roadbed better thats why I added cement around it for support. 









I'm really toying with the idea of a curved wood tresel where the bucket is Photo ops heaven. 










I can just picture a BigBoy in evening light heading up this grade with a passenger train behind it. 










rebar and old steel chain link fence rail to support the mesh to tie the rocks together. 

I also found yellow jackets nest, that wasn't fun. 











Tall pines will top this mountain to tie in with the other mountain. Need to trans plant some trees.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Gonna be cool! Jerry


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Just FYI for new folks. The main plan was to see if the line would work in this area and how will it affect the RR as for running and maintance. 
Once I start building a line is when the "planning" stage starts. Where to place bridges, colverts, sidings etc. 
How to creat scenes along the right of way. 
You don't need to plan your whole RR to get started, you just need to know where you can run track and how large of curves can it handle. 
The rest is growing the GRR.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Thought you said it wouldn't be done for the "Thingy". Looks like we'll be able to run and photograph trains by then the way you're going. 

But, you never did let any grass grow under yer feet.... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif 

Sure looks good, Marty............


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Ok I did something like a ladder roadbed. I took two 1/8 x 2inch x 10 ft flat steel and bent it in my bending macnine to match a 20 ft curve. I then drilled 1/4 inch holes in it every 16 inches. I then cut 1/4 20 all thread 4 inches long. I put plactic pipe as spacers and bolted the two together with the pipe as spacers. Total width is 3.5 inchs. I then attacked re bar horizontally to the plastic pipe. I then poured concrete in the middle. Once it dried I took off the nuts on the all thread and removed the steel. Now I have a concrete curved roadbed. I can reuse the metal on another curve. I can even rebend it to fit a different degree of curve. 

This is a poor image but you might see what I am talking about


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## gregcoit (Jan 2, 2008)

FWIW - a .75" rise over a 48" span is very close to a 1.5% grade (.75/48 = .015625). 

Hope this helps! 

Greg


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 
You could make faux trestle or viaduct on the ladder. 








JimC.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

the bridge will be a winter project, maybe . I have it layed out on sheeting and will build it upside down. I plan to hand spike the rail with gaurd rail. 









Max is always close by. 
Our old rider mover had the blade area taken off so now its my train tractor. may paint it company colors this winter.That sounds dumb... 
The grand kids was over most of the day so I did not get much done but for planting a few trees. and removing one. 
Theres one that is sickly and I have found when transplanted many times they snap out of it.


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## Guest (Aug 31, 2008)

Marty, 
Looks great! If you camo the mower the kids will not see it! 
Also I like the other photos as well, gives a person something to chew on. 
Toad


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Last night I watered the fill dirt in good. 
Today I figured what the hay, lay the track. thats the funnest part of all. 
So I installed a the switch I made for this spot and exspantion joint, then some of the new AMS USA track. 
Of course I hate shiny new rail so I painted it then ballasted it. 
I had to leave a couple of times because Max thought it was fun to try and catch yellow jacklets. 
But after he got stung a couple of times he stopped. 








I'm back to #2 cherry chicken grit because it of all things has help up best over the years. 

The grade does not look so bad after all the fill was in. 
I have some gribbing to build in a number of spots here.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking good Marty! 1.5 % grade isn't bad. Just like going though the Wasatch mountains UP has a 1.8 % grade.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

We've seen you document 3 methods of building roadbed. Now show us how to get the track bent to match


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Tom 
Here I used a Belly bender.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, Nice combo of ladder and concrete, thanks for the pics and the idea  Final ballasted line looks very sharp!


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 

There's hope for your tractor. You could fix her up all sweet and take her to the Threshermans Reunion at the Rough and Tumble, here in PA. They were having a garden tractor pull when I was there. Some guys were hauling a 1/2 ton or more with their modified garden tractors. 

Nice looking ladder road bed there. Hope it holds up for you. 

Mark


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I've been a bad boy. 
I should be building switches for the Terminal, but 








Getting the new trestle sounds more fun, besides, its dark at 8 pm any more. 
the light ties is the setting sun shining on them.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, 

Nice Boardwalk!! You know, most Boardwalks are straight, to parallel the ocean. Like the one in Atlantic City, NJ or Ocean City, MD. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boardwalk#Atlantic_City.2C_New_Jersey 

I thought you lived in Nebraska? Why are you modeling the seaside?!! Does this mean you are getting a Blue Coment train?! What will your UP friends say?! 

Mark


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## Chris France (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry I didn't catch this thread earlier, Marty. To answer one of your first questions in case you haven't caught it from other sources by now, the 24" GMM bridges work great for 20' Diameter. I have 2 of them over one of my "drainage gullys."


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Chris, good to know. 

for those who are still lost on where I'm doing this. 









Really improves the look of that crest of the hill "mountain". 
Bang's Canyon Bridge is the black one. 










Heres the end where the trestle will be and the line will run along where the mower is to the gazebo. 
All the grass in the curve will be removed and will become canyon with rocks and trees.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Hurry up, only 3 weeks left!  Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Is the Forestry fire watch tower in the first picture new? I don't remember seeing it before


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Marty, 

That's a nice alternative system for your layout. I've thought about suing the same system for the staging table. Putting together a trestle just wont be possible this time around. I gotta ask....How tight can you go as far as curves are concerned. I probably can only go to 12 for the space I have. 

I'm sure the layout is gonna provide some great entertainment to everyone that's set to arrive in a couple weeks. Always great to see what ypu're doing. It is inspriing even though we have layouts on opposite ends of the spectrum. 

Can't wait to see the pics that get posted later. 

Later, 

Joe


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, 

Not to worry Marty will have it done. I don't think the guy ever sleeps.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, here I am retired and he does WAY more than I do, but he is a youngster! Jerry


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

A 90 + year old guy once told me, there are old folks,,and then there are folks who ack and think they are old.. 









You can see why I hate shiny new rail in this photo. 
I never dig all the dirt at once, because I can come back and shave what I need to fill other spots. 










This is the only place I see this is one of the few places I see this ladder method will help out.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Shiny RED x's?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif 
I see you have the photos. Thanks for posting.


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## leonpete (Jan 4, 2008)

Looking great Marty! Looks like it will be running for the thingy.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

FAILED FAILED ,,,FAILED

this new roadbed for me personally i don't like, I may have done it wrong. I beat the post in. during winter it ran fine. But as soon as the frost came out of the ground ,you can push it down with your foot and from side to side.
I know others has worked but I wanted to share what happened to me. I plan to concrete this area. The other rest of the new line with concrete has no,,NO ,,0 sign of problems .
The wood trestle I knew would be a problem because I did not dig footings to hold it and the water run off built up in the ground under it and it lifted.
None of my other bridge have moved and still are as solid as a rock.
Just an update.
I've been looking for another weekend project so here it is.
BTY all rock faces stayed good also.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Marty, I really appreciate the comments and pics here and in my case I risk developing parallel issues as I start building the GR&G. 

In the spring and when frost is out I plan a ladder system and am up in the air re free "raised float" Vs Brian's PVC pipe system. I live in North Alberta. Zone 3 if you are a gardener. (serious frost lines up here)

Are you a free floater (raised 4x4 light pinning to the ground surface or a PVC ladder type of guy? (pvc spiked into the ground by 2 feet ) 

Secondly... you belly mould your flex track. I have a Train Li dual bender and my question is; Do I bend on a flat surface then install or can I "bend" in place or on top of the ladder system? Or is this a combo of both techniques including belly bending to start with finishing with the dual bender. ( I have a geat belly to start the bending process )









Look forward to anyone's comments including your experiences. 

Regards, 

gg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

With the track bender you can just bend the track in place on the ladder


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

either way , at Bubbas I wanted to creat a curve that would fit the area so we did it on a flat surface. In other cases i bend in place if you have the room. 
We had a light winter and i beat these down as far as I could because in this part of the rr I have a hard clay layer which bends steel pipe when I tried the angel iron method few years back. (back by the grain elevator) 
I have not been up to Donnys to see how his went. he drilled holes then back filled the holes. 
This area of the RR I renter a skid loader becuase it was so hard to dig in. 
The big bridge is on 5ft of fill which was packed with a gas packer and after 2 years it still settled. But every thing moved with it. no problem. 

Here I had ties ripped off the rail in places. Beings this is fill also I may auger 4" holes so the concrete can have stiff legs to help stablize it. 
back outside.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty,

The railroad came though the winter great! The only problem I had is the plastic contracted a little and my side walks I poured last fall sunk. 
Everything else is nice and straight.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Well the line is up and running again, the wood trestle has (3) 36" 8" footings under it. concrete roadbed . no photos, been doing it in bits and pieces in the evening before dark. need to finish the wood cross members on the trestle yet.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I did not realize my shutter was stuck and needed cleaned.
95% complete.


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## Engineercub (Oct 18, 2008)

Wow Marty, it looks great! Now you should write an article about trestle-building to help noobs like myself lol. Nice job though, I'll be bugging you for trestle info for sure when I get to that point. 

-Will


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

And He created trees....








And he saw that they were ,,goooood!!!


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Kind of reminds me of those 1950's SciFi flicks-just when you thought it was safe you see The Incredible Growing Model Railroader!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Dave


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul Bunyon?


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty, your trestle looks BEA-utiful! Really well done. The new trees look great also. I like how they aren't so full. I need to trim mine up. And yes, I have to agree that since you've set the G scene so well, you look like a giant


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## carlferg (Mar 18, 2009)

Marty, when you wrote that you used 36"x8" footings under the trestle where you refering to sono tubes? I'm building two trestles for my line in northwest Pa. and am looking for advice so I'll only have to do it once. Tho rest of my track has been free floating in chicken grit ballest for 9 years now and has worked out well, but am worried about the trestles on an expansion I'm doing. Thanks, Carl


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Carl 
I buy one sono tube and cut it just to use it for the top part. there is one on each side of the bridge center left, (has lots of water draining there whcih caused the problem.) Then one in the center right. the rocks small rocks hide the fact that the bents are floating 
This is only my 3 trestle ever built and I don't like just siting it in dirt with gravel around it. 
I will try to take a photo of how I ankered it. 

As for the trees, I usually butcher them up in Aug when its the end of growing season and before the Sept open house. Good sit down job while its HOT out.


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