# Working Railroad - Unusual?



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

So I have been around this site for quite a while, and my interests primarily lie with the live steam crowd, as that is what I am primarily into. Now, I have seen a lot of great elevated railroads, but to me - the vast majority of them seem like race tracks that people like to run their trains really fast on. Don't get me wrong - that is a lot of fun, but has anyone ever made a working G-Scale Live Steam railroad? I.E. working signals with passing sidings on a single track (or double track if you have the space) railroad?

The only reason I ask is because I am thinking of doing this very thing. The ultimate goal is to have 3 small loops at different locations around the yard that will function as reversing loops and the "towns" on the railroad. These loops will provide side tracks for industry and possibly a turn table and roundhouse at one. In between these loops would be a single track mainline with passing sidings and working signals. Now, when I say working signals I mean that each time you get to a block, you would have to manually hit a button or switch to take that block changing the signal at the other end to red, or yours to yellow.


Perhaps this idea does not seem far fetched to me, because my dad and I started out in the 7.5" gauge hobby, in which there are some very awesome railroads that have a similar setup. Here is an example of such a setup - www.millcreekcentral.com


Just curios if I am going to be unique in my design.


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

What you describe Is exactly why I don't have live steam. I think Live Steam engines are beautiful, I think they look great dragging a steam plumb around the track. But I can not get into running engine till it runs out of fuel and then start all over. 

I want to get out there and switch cars around. I want to run passengers trains and stop at stations. 

There was a RR here in Phoenix called the St John RR. I would take my battery powered Connie over there and run it around his layout. It was great fun pulling on a siding so that a live steamer could go past me.

I sure do hope you can make a working live steam layout like you want. Take Pictures and post them as our build your layout Then Take videos and post them as you run your layout. 

JJ


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

C.R. ,
I think what you are describing is completely feasible and I share your sentiments pretty closely. I think the big reason you mostly see elevated layouts in the live steam crowd is due to ease of adjustment. Most in the hobby are not spring chickens and all admit even for me at the "young" age of 35 it can be challenging crawling around after your loco trying to make an adjustment. I think there are live steam layouts out there as you describe.


That being said I think the answer to this is adding R/C to any rod loco. (geared engines seem to stay at a steady pace even down grade) I too want to have my layout on the ground, which I think is half the fun of the out door railroad. I also would like it to be "working" as you say with sidings yard and industry to switch with live steam of course. I think the key to this is to know your terrain and to take advantage of it topography. In my plans below you can see how I have done this. To the right the big loop will be dead level as well as the yard, transfer dock , Round house , and other facilities. At the bottom right of the circle the track will go off the edge of the hill on to a 36" tall stone viaduct that will serve as an elevated portion for steaming and fiddling. Then once your loco is fueled and watered you can use the R/C to drive it lust like the real thing around you railroad. Where the Y is to the top Left of the big loop a 2% grade will start all the way out to the Right and back to the corner below the house where a Lime stone mine will reside inside the loop. Again you can make out the 2 retaining walls in that spot and see where the track will come out over the bottom wall for elevated access to Locos. There are plenty of siding and other industries that haven't been added to my drawing yet, but at this point I don't even have the big loop down. I have a temporary dogbone almost literally "thrown" down out in that field. I need to build a few retaining walls this fall and then I can really get started on track. Until then I am getting a few main line switches hand laid so I get the track down without delay.


Good luck and lets see lots of pictures of yours!


----------



## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

Actually,


We have already built the first loop of the railroad. Now, we did go with an elevated railroad due to the fact we will be running primarily live steam without R/C and our backyard has some significant grades in some places.

However, we have added rolled roofing to give the appearance of ground, and will be ballasting our railroad later on.


We are currently planning the next expansion, which would include a single track run to another loop which will function as a future half way point between another loop.

Here are some photos and videos:

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/11/aft/121032/afv/topic/Default.aspx


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

"What you describe Is exactly why I don't have live steam. I think Live Steam engines are beautiful, I think they look great dragging a steam plumb around the track. But I can not get into running engine till it runs out of fuel and then start all over. " 

Well, I think your batteries will run out of fuel too JJ... just a measure of how long you can run before refueling... 

The only differences besides the most obvious one of keeping the grades down more than for sparkies (and geared steamers handle steeper grades) would be inclusion of steaming tracks, and maybe having 2 of them on opposite "ends" of the layout. Also, you might want to pay a bit more attention to accessibility at all points around the layout. 

Depending on the fuel you use, you might pay a bit more attention to combustible materials near the right of way. 

Otherwise, why the heck not? More work to run, more finesse on operating the locos, but balanced by even more challenge and fun. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Maybe this is a good place to discuss how long is an average run time for batteries and steamers a like. I have a SD70 with 2 sets of batteries, that can run about 4 hours. But I also think that the crew would like a break for snacks and drinks once in a while also! 

So how long is a good run ? 

I'm also building another loco with 3 sets of batteries that should run maybe 6 hours, but could run only 3 hours if I change the power trucks...just think'n and designing here... 

THX , Dirk - DMS Ry


----------



## Nutz-n-Bolts (Aug 12, 2010)

C.R. ,

I have seen the videos of your first loop and it looks very nice. It's seems like a great setting to be nestled into with all that foliage. I look forward to seeing it grow into what you are describing. 


I would say for live steam depending on the loco and set up it has, any where from 1/2 hour to 1 1/4 hour is average. If you have an axle driven water pump you can have a water reserve in the tender as well as a larger fuel tank and be able to run to the lone end of things. The larger the loco usually it's easier to achieve longer run time too. The amount of stopping that you will have to do to adjust things depends on how many features you have under control of R/C. I plan to have as much remotely controlled as possible so I can tend to the days car shuffling and run long. After and hour or so I'll be ready for a break.


----------



## Bob in Kalamazoo (Apr 2, 2009)

I saw a video this past winter that a friend had that showed Vance Bass' (from Graden Railways mag) layout. He has a total live steam layout and he runs operating sessions. All the usual stuff with bringing out the locomotives from the fuel and water sidings. Making up trains. Picking up and setting out cars. Refueling etc. All the live steam engines are RC. 
Bob


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

How about Jack Verducci's railroad. It is live steam.
http://gold.mylargescale.com/dwight...rducci.htm


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

"What you describe Is exactly why I don't have live steam. I think Live Steam engines are beautiful, I think they look great dragging a steam plumb around the track. But I can not get into running engine till it runs out of fuel and then start all over. " 

Well, I think your batteries will run out of fuel too JJ... just a measure of how long you can run before refueling... 
I have both live steam and battery locos, so let me offer a couple of thoughts. 

Live steam tracks on the level allow complicated locos to run without requiring r/c, and I've seen many prototypical standard gauge express trains running most prototypically and looking good. (I also enjoy watching narrow gauge trains trundle round slowly.)

If you make your live steamer even more complicated, say by adding coal firing, then you are having quite enough fun without needing the complications of switching, etc. But it really isn't any more difficult - it just requires more attention.

You can run live steam without r/c, and you can run battery powered locos with r/c, but the latter are few and far between. So let's be fair and compare locos fitted with remote controls. My battery-electric locos are a joy to operate and require very little start-up. Just put them on the track, and (if you have remembered to charge the batteries) you are off. 

My live steamers with r/c take a little longer to get going, and require attention while operating (e.g. fuel and water,) but otherwise they are just as capable of switching, stopping, and all the other things the electric loco does. I find them equally enjoyable - the live steamer perhaps more so because it is more of an achievement to make it happen each time? 
Adding r/c to a live steamer is more mechanical engineering than the electrical engineering needed to add r/c to a battery engine. But I've never had a plug-and-play electric loco, so both have to be done from scratch, and both take about as much work. Electric r/c tends to be more expensive, as the cost of the r/c hardware for a live steamer is based on those r/c cars and planes so it is fairly cheap. Train electric throttles are a smaller market so they are more expensive - and they need a sound system, which my live steamer doesn't!

I've never run the batteries flat on my electrics. My first loco ran for 4 hours at a show - I was curious if it would. I've run my locos all day - between breaks - at various Open days. The same is true of my live steamer - when I first fitted a check valve and manual water fill I kept it going for 1 3/4 hours, until I decided it was time for lunch. At that point the loco was running out of steam oil and would need cooling off and servicing before starting up again. Which I did, later, and I ran again that day. 


To me it isn't either/or. I like both.


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

The simple fact no matter what power you use, is finding folks to come and run many trains on a regular bases.


----------

