# Can one know if a locomotive is equipped with a DCC decoder without disassembling it?



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

I have stayed away from DCC partly because I did not understand it, partly because I did not want to complicate things, partly because of the extra expense. Now I understand the very clever principle behind it and am not so against it. I still have no experience with DCC and own no DCC equipment. The point is that while reading about it I read that running a DCC loco on DC could be damaging and wondered if perhaps my Aristo-Craft 2 8 8 2 mallet could have a DCC decoder installed without me knowing it. I prefer not to disassemble it unnecessarily. Hence the question. Can one know if a locomotive is equipped with a DCC decoder without disassembling it?


----------



## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

You will not damage a DCC decoder-equipped loco if you run it on DC. One of two things will happen - either it will simply do nothing (while not being damaged in any way) or it will function normally. The DCC standards are very clear on that fact. A DCC decoder is supposed to be able to safely tolerate DC track voltage suitable to the scale (20+V DC would fry a Z scale decoder designed to have 9V, but not a large scale decoder designed to handle that voltage).


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Going back to the title of your topic, That is a good question. 

I too am curious in that I have some locomotives that I am no longer sure if they do or do not have a decoder in them. How can one tell easily if there is or is not decoder in a locomotive?

Jerry


----------



## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

Whilst it shouldn't damage the electronics, it's worth being aware that a DCC decoder fitted loco can sometimes be "confused" by PWM pulsed DC (eg. the orange Aristo Basic Train Engineer or the black TE when NOT set to linear mode). This could lead to erratic operation unhealthy for the gearing.

I've seen such behaviour in N scale locos - a decoder fitted loco was once tried on my layout which uses PWM controllers and the loco wasn't happy. Yet other chipped locos have been fine, so I guess it depends on the decoder?

One of my older Aristo locos has an NCE D408 decoder fitted which I recall didn't behave well with PWM, but I didn't try it for very long.


----------



## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

One way to test for the presence of a decoder would be to place it on a DCC system programming track and attempt to read the address. Of course this requires you (or a friend) to have a DCC system.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Just what he said, put it on a programming track. 

You can buy a complete 3 amp pro grade system (NCE) for $143, that can be upgraded to 5 amps.

Greg


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

If you have a linear power supply, try setting the loco on the track and_ very slowly_ applying voltage to the rails. Watch the voltage and watch the wheels and lights. If the loco is DCC equipped, the voltage will have to raise to a certain point before the electronics that control the loco "wake up" and begin to operate the motors, lights, sounds, etc. That's typically around 6 volts give or take, but that depends on the specific decoder. If the loco's lights come on or the motors start moving with only 2 or 3 volts, then chances are good it does not have a DCC decoder onboard.

(If the loco has skates or tender pick-ups, raise the loco off the track and use the skates or tender to supply power. The motors will begin to turn on lower voltages if they're not supporting the weight of the loco.) 

Later,

K


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Pardon my ignorance, I have no DCC equipment to try this on nor do I follow it's architecture, but...

If one were to put an ohmmeter on the wheels of a DCC-equipped engine, wouldn't one expect a substantially different value than one gets with a simple track powered engine?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe Todd, the first thing the track pickups go into is a full wave bridge, and a filter cap.

Since some people use FETs instead of diodes, measuring with an Ohmmeter will most likely not give you definitive results, you could show a low resistance like a motor by going through the bridge and an uncharged electrolytic filter cap.

Also, there could be a diode string and a sound card in the loco.

Nope, the only way and easy way is a DCC programming track. Otherwise, if you cannot spare $143, open it up.

Now in this specific thread the OP asks about a 2-8-8-2 mallet... it's just a couple of minutes to pop open the tender if a late model (hmm, did they upgrade the mallet like the Mikado and Pacific?), and only a few screws to pop off the boiler to look inside.

If you have one loco, open it up. If you are going to be in this situation a lot, like buying trains and don't know what's inside, invest the $143.

Greg


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

I have opened the tender and this is what is inside; a Sierra Sound card that works, a speaker , a rechargeable battery that I have replaced successfully with supercapacitors, I have learnt to program the card but the steam sound is very difficult to synchronize so I'm planning on synchronizing the sound to a driver. The loco starts moving at about 2 volts. The Loco has 2 cables with connectors as seen on the photo. 
There is also evidence that it was very probably run on batteries, because the person who sold it was also selling an aristocraft stock car with 3 heavy batteries installed. 

Is this sufficient to know there is no Decoder or should I open the boiler? Greg. Which are the few screws to pop off the boiler to look inside?


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

When I place a DC loco on my DCC track, several observations I have:
Front and rear lights come on.
Motor has buzzing sound.
No need to try and read any addresses as this tells me it is DC only.


----------



## ntpntpntp (Jan 14, 2008)

But why risk damaging a non-chipped loco by putting it on a DCC track? If you have anything other than the most basic entry level DCC system you're almost definitely going to have a programming track capability, and it's simple to try reading the address. 

Yes MOST locos can survive and indeed as we know some DCC systems support control of an unchipped loco, but it's really not good for the loco in the long term. Certain Piko locos have been known to blow their interference suppression capacitors in very short order when subjected to DCC.

Personally I would refuse to put a loco on a DCC track without knowing for sure it has a decoder.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Maybe Todd, the first thing the track pickups go into is a full wave bridge, and a filter cap.
> 
> Greg


This is exactly what I was thinking.

So how about some measurements to substantiate or refute your thinking?

I would think that you have a whole stable of these things around and your curosity would have peaked. I know mine would have.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Huh? What is your problem? What's with the agressive crap out of left field?

I don't have to substantiate or refute squat to you.

Yes I do have a whole stable of these AND several DCC systems and I can open a loco, so why would I spend time trying your method, when I have better, simpler, easier methods that do not have to depend on a theory?

jeeze Todd

Greg


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> When I place a DC loco on my DCC track, several observations I have:
> Front and rear lights come on.
> Motor has buzzing sound.
> No need to try and read any addresses as this tells me it is DC only.


Isn't the situation mostly the other way around?

People have a DC layout, buy a loco on ebay or wherever, want to know if there is a decoder inside without having to open the loco.

That was ttt's situation the way I read it.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Greg Elmassian said:


> Huh? What is your problem? What's with the agressive crap out of left field?
> 
> I don't have to substantiate or refute squat to you.
> 
> ...


Because you didn't think of this, I'm being agressive?

You're not doing it for me. You would be doing it for others on the forum who are looking for a quick easy method to make a differentiation. I have no dog in this fight.

jeeze


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Guys please CHILL. If this thread gets locked it won't help the OP. You both have a lot to offer, there is rarely one unique solution. This may be difficult, but try stating your solution and not worrying about what others suggest.

Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

uhh... a little reading.

1. the situation is he has no DCC system, see quote below.
2. I would never try to use an ohmmeter on the track pickups, too many other things could be connected to the track pickups
3. I'm not upset that I did not think of using an ohmmeter just like I'm not upset trying to drive a car with a package of noodles
4. I did not suggest the ohmmeter test, Todd did.
5. likewise I do not need to "refute or substantiate" #4, because I don't think it is a good test
6. "piqued" and "curiosity" , not "peaked" interest Todd. " curosity would have peaked."
7. Yes Knut, you clearly read the thread and thought it through.

Regards, 

Greg



trainstrainstrains said:


> I have stayed away from DCC partly because I did not understand it, partly because I did not want to complicate things, partly because of the extra expense. Now I understand the very clever principle behind it and am not so against it. I still have no experience with DCC and *own no DCC equipment*. The point is that while reading about it I read that running a DCC loco on DC could be damaging and wondered if perhaps my Aristo-Craft 2 8 8 2 mallet could have a DCC decoder installed without me knowing it. I prefer not to disassemble it unnecessarily. Hence the question. Can one know if a locomotive is equipped with a DCC decoder without disassembling it?





toddalin said:


> I would think that you have a whole stable of these things around and your *curosity *would have *peaked*. I know mine would have.


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Thanks everyone.
Any comments on permalink No.10 will be much appreciated.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I guess that it was just too much effort for Greg to simply put an ohmmeter across the wheels on a DCC engine and report back.

None the less, we had a Club meeting tonight and one of the guys runs DCC. He also thought there should be an obvious difference when read with an ohmmeter and said he would give it a try and report back to me. I hope he remembers because with ~50 people there tonight, I'm having a hard time remembering who it was. 

Alternatively, there are probably several here would could perform this little test and let the group know the outcome.


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Decoder manufacturers should include a little sticker to place under the loco marked -DCC inside.-
Would be good if they also wrote the decoder model on the little sticker, which I'm sure they would do gladly.


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

The Sierra board is not a DCC-native board. I'd say it's almost certain this loco does not have a DCC decoder onboard. In looking at the wires going to the Sierra, you've got the speaker wires on the upper left, power from the track/motor to the upper right, and I think the three wires in the lower right will go to the external volume switch. 

Later,

K


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

toddalin said:


> I guess that it was just too much effort for Greg to simply put an ohmmeter across the wheels on a DCC engine and report back.
> 
> None the less, we had a Club meeting tonight and one of the guys runs DCC. He also thought there should be an obvious difference when read with an ohmmeter and said he would give it a try and report back to me. I hope he remembers because with ~50 people there tonight, I'm having a hard time remembering who it was.
> 
> Alternatively, there are probably several here would could perform this little test and let the group know the outcome.


I doubt that you can use just an ohmmeter to determine this - if you just measure at the power pickups, an analogue loco with a sound system (but no DCC decoder) will give you a similar reading than a loco with a decoder.

Knut


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

trainstrainstrains said:


> Decoder manufacturers should include a little sticker to place under the loco marked -DCC inside.-
> Would be good if they also wrote the decoder model on the little sticker, which I'm sure they would do gladly.


That won't help - you would still depend on the person installing the decoder to affix the sticker and even if they do - stickers have a tendency to fall off eventually.
If you had a DCC system you could read out the manufacturer and usually the model and version of the decoder if there was one - but then we wouldn't even have this discussion.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sorry TTT, I was so busy fending off Todd's personal affronts and pouting since no one else believes in his ohmmeter theory (which by the way would need to be proved with quite a few different decoders and decoder/sound board combinations).

Yes, normally the Aristo socket is in the boiler, but with a sierra sound board present, very doubtful you would have a DCC decoder, since for them to co-exist, the sierra would need the "speed" input filtered. Also the fact that the loco starts moving at 2 volts, means it's almost certain no decoder is present, since MOST need a bit over 5 volts.

If it was me, I would not pull it apart, but just for reference, I have a specific page on how to disassemble a Mallet:

http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/aristo-motive-power/mallet/disassembly

(easy to find on my site under large scale... motive power... aristo... 2-8-8-2)










Socket is on the right board in the picture below, 2 small rows of pins










Regards, Greg



trainstrainstrains said:


> I have opened the tender and this is what is inside; a Sierra Sound card that works, a speaker , a rechargeable battery that I have replaced successfully with supercapacitors, I have learnt to program the card but the steam sound is very difficult to synchronize so I'm planning on synchronizing the sound to a driver. The loco starts moving at about 2 volts. The Loco has 2 cables with connectors as seen on the photo.
> There is also evidence that it was very probably run on batteries, because the person who sold it was also selling an aristocraft stock car with 3 heavy batteries installed.
> 
> Is this sufficient to know there is no Decoder or should I open the boiler? Greg. Which are the few screws to pop off the boiler to look inside?


----------



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

chuck n said:


> Guys please CHILL. If this thread gets locked it won't help the OP. You both have a lot to offer, there is rarely one unique solution. This may be difficult, but try stating your solution and not worrying about what others suggest.
> 
> Chuck



Chuck said it better than I could. 

Later,

K


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I am not trying to read anyone's mind but perhaps the "problem" is that to some of us the world of DCC can be very confusing - especially when trying to deal with unknown products.

As I understand it DCC is intended to be a universal system but clearly LGB's Serial and or Parallel MTS is not exactly DCC compatible. Beyond that I happen to have acquired a Digitrax DCS200 a couple of MRC Power 8's and an assortment of LGB, Massoth, Digitrax, MRC and NEC decoders some of which power locos or coach lights or various digital or analog sound systems.

Since they are my trains it never occurred to me to mark whatever it was that I put in the various locos - until I noticed one of my PRR Forneys ran a lot slower than the other.

I figured that something was broke so i took it apart only to discover that I had put an LGB decoder
in the loco and a Digitrax or NEC decoder and LGB analog sound board in the tender. Since the other Forney did not have any decoders it naturally ran a lot faster. Now I've got a lot of work to once again put the decoder in the loco and the decoder etc. in the tender.

When I saw this topic I thought how great it would be if I had a programming track that could tell me if and what brand and model of decoders might be in anything I put on it.

For me it does not matter which brands are best because I want to put a fully MTS compatible decoder into an LGB loco but I'm going to use a cheap decoder of whatever brand in an old Thomas the Tank or Lionel 0-4-0 - or cheap and small to dim the lights in coaches or control an inexpensive analog sound system. 

The truth is that I don't know enough about DCC to even know what questions to ask and I am probably not alone. For that matter I don't know of any MTS or DCC G Gauge layouts running within a couple hundreds of miles or anyone running Digitrax G Gauge anywhere.

I don't think anyone was trying to be malicious or aggressive as much as that clearly there are various different approaches to answering the question - any of which might or might not have answered the question as it was intended.

Over the years when it comes to DCC I have often been told to buy and read a book (again a couple of days ago). I don't like reading technical books and would probably forget what I read as fast as I read it but IF there was a book on now to use and run various mixtures of LGB, Massoth, Digitrax, NEC, MRC, Zimo and or other brands at 24VDC up to 8 amps or more I WOULD buy it. Perhaps someone will someday publish "DCC for Dummies" and I would be in line to buy it.

Cheers,

Jerry


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

krs said:


> I doubt that you can use just an ohmmeter to determine this - if you just measure at the power pickups, an analogue loco with a sound system (but no DCC decoder) will give you a similar reading than a loco with a decoder.
> 
> Knut



Knut, like so much around here, that is just speculation until someone tries it out to see.

The reality is the sound system has virtually no effect on the ohm reading for the analog engine.

I don't know why some have such an adversion to trying this simple test. 

USA F3:

Motors and Sierra off - ohmmeter reads infinity. (No lights anymore)

Sierra on, motors off - ohmmeter reads 5.23 megaohms

Sierra off, motors on - ohmmeter reads ~54 ohms, but does drift some.

Sierra on, motors on - ohmmeter still reads ~54 ohms.

If in fact the dcc decoder provides a reading similar to the sound system, as you suggest, it is relatively easy to be sure that the motor is switched on and that the meter contacts are good; and most anyone could tell the difference between megaohms and double-digit ohms on the scale in support my premiss.


----------



## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

Jerry:

You may want to Google "dcc for dummies". 

Before I decided to go with G-Scale Graphic's RailBoss 4, I did a bunch of research and some of those resulting sites were used in part as my sources. For my needs, DCC was an expensive and relatively complex sledgehammer for the small tacks that I needed to drive.

Mark


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

**** Habilis said:


> Jerry:
> 
> You may want to Google "dcc for dummies".
> 
> ...


Hi Mark,

My first thought was "Why didn't I do that?"

When I saw your post I did Google it but the first thing I noticed was that the books did not seem to address mixing and matching the various brands of equipment.

"For my needs, DCC was an expensive and relatively complex sledgehammer for the small tacks that I needed to drive." Pretty well defines my position.

I don't have any need for (or desire to know) 99% of what DCC can do. 

All I am really interested in is:

1. Can I use an MRC Power 8 to power a Digitrax DCS200?
2. What else would I HAVE to own to use these to program Digitrax and other brands of decoders?
3. Which brands of Central Stations & remotes can ring the bell, toot the whistle, speed up and slow down LGB locos with factory decoders and LGB, Massoth, Digitrax, NEC, MRC and ZIMO decoders and how compatible with Serial and Parallel commands are they?

If I was new to the hobby and new to DCC it would be simple - pick a favorite brand and stick with it. In my case I am putting the cart before the horse. I already have the trains and assortment of decoders so I am looking for what will work with what I already have. 

From what I could tell the books Google found seemed to either ignore brands entirely or be brand specific. If anyone knows different I would like to know (here or privately).

The attraction of the DCS200 and Power 8 is the 8 AMP CAPABILITY and the fact that I bought them years ago (I forget why) and they put out a lot more amps than my LGB Central Stations and LGB Boosters plus I already have enough LGB remotes.

I didn't mean to hijack this topic. I'm just looking for these answers wherever I can find them.

Thanks,

Jerry


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Jerry,
I am so much an ignoramus in the subject of DCC that I have not even seen my first decoder yet, though one is on the mail. It is from Digitrax and I intend to use it with a Bachmann DCC EZ command on N scale. 
Members of another forum have assured and reassured me that pretty much any decoder will work with any DCC system today because nowadays they all comply with NMRA standards.


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

toddalin said:


> Knut, like so much around here, that is just speculation until someone tries it out to see.
> 
> The reality is the sound system has virtually no effect on the ohm reading for the analog engine.


Todd,

You can't base your conclusions on just one example.

Ohmmeters are very simple instruments meant to measure the approximate resistance of a resistor or a device that behaves pretty much like a resistor.
When you start using an ohmmeter to measure any device with semiconductors, like an analog loco that has more than just the motor in it, you will get different readings depending on the specific electronics, the way they are wired and the specific ohmmeter used.

What we are trying to determine is how to distinguis between a loco with a DCC decoder (and any other electronics) and a loco without a DCC Decoder (but possibly other unknown electronics).

In the loco you are testing, the Sierra system is just connected in parallel with the motor, that's why you are getting the readings you report.
But many LGB analog locos for instance have electronic circuitry in series with the motor, so if your ohmmeter doesn't provide enough voltage to turn the semiconductors in those locos on you will get a very high resistance reading for that type of analog loco.

Good ohmmeters btw use a very low voltage for the resistance measurement specifically to not turn on semiconductors.

Knut


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

krs said:


> Todd,
> 
> You can't base your conclusions on just one example.
> 
> ...


So..., test an analog LGB engine with a sound system turned off, then turned on and let us know what you find. It would also be nice to test one with their MTS system installed.

There are certainly plenty of people here who could provide a representative sample if some would just open their minds. This is really not that difficult and only takes a moment.


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Thanks to all who have helped me with my particular preoccupation with the mallet. Special thanks to Greg and K for clearing that up for me.
Do continue with the search for a sure and easy way to find out if there is a decoder inside.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Any time TTT, and if you do have suggestions on my site as you go, email me and I'll fix/update.

I'm going through the entire site now, but with 650 pages, it will take a while ha ha!

Greg


----------



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

toddalin said:


> So..., test an analog LGB engine with a sound system turned off, then turned on and let us know what you find. It would also be nice to test one with their MTS system installed.
> 
> There are certainly plenty of people here who could provide a representative sample if some would just open their minds. This is really not that difficult and only takes a moment.


I'm not talking about a loco with a sound system.

LGB added what they call EAV early in the game. That was some electronic circuitry added in series with the motor to allow two analog locos to be independantly controlled for switching operations. It's not something that can be turned on and off.
Later they added similar electronics to many of their electric locos so that the pantographs would automatically go up and down when the loco reversed - that would have to happen in a specific sequence so that the loco would not loose power when it was running with catenary power.
Again electronics that cannot be turned on or off.
That arrangement btw allows one to run two locos totally independant with just an analog layout.

I'd be happy to measure some locos I have later this week but I doubt it will lead to anything conclusively that can be applied generally for all Large Scale locos.

I think a better bet would be some characteristic that a DCC Decoder equipped loco would have when running on an analog layout that a "pure" analog loco will not have or vice versa.
Soething like Greg's comment earlier about an analog loco starting to move at 2-3 VDC whereas a DCC equipped loco would require more like 5 or 6 volts.
If the loco wheels start turning (weith no load) at 2-3 volts, I think it's definitely analog, no DCC decoder.
However, if the wheels start turning at say 6VDC, it could either be a DCC Decoder equipped loco or a loco with EAV or other electronics but still analog.

Knut


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The issue is further compounded by the combinations of devices that can be between the motor and the track pickups.

Also, the effects of lights and smoke, which are often connected directly to the track pickups.

There's really not a simple foolproof procedure, other than actual physical inspection. Even testing on a program track, you could have a decoder, but it's not functioning, in service mode, there are 3 different types of programming and some decoders only respond to one way of communication.

To even further compound things, some accessory decoders can only be programmed on the main.

After all the locos I have worked on, and buying things used, I've found some really strange wiring.

Greg


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

trainstrainstrains said:


> Jerry,
> I am so much an ignoramus in the subject of DCC that I have not even seen my first decoder yet, though one is on the mail. It is from Digitrax and I intend to use it with a Bachmann DCC EZ command on N scale.
> Members of another forum have assured and reassured me that pretty much any decoder will work with any DCC system today because nowadays they all comply with NMRA standards.


Move over for another ignoramus. 

Perhaps the biggest contradiction is when you start mixing LGB and Massoth decoders with other brands. My personal experience has been that I cannot trust a brand A central station (some call them central stations while others call them something different) to properly program brand B decoders. 

You mentioned that you have a Digitrax decoder. Around here the hobby shop and most DCC users (none are G Gauge) happen to have and use Digitrax products and are quite happy with them but I don't know anyone using Digitrax products in G Gauge especially in combination with LGB and Massoth (which I believe includes the majority of large scale DCC (MTS) users).

I think it started with G Gauge (LGB) not quite complying with NMRA standards. Even to the point that Large Scale (G Gauge/Scale) trains run backward when compared with HO etc. even though both run on DC voltage (Bachmann G Gauge locos usually have a voltage polarity reversing switch). I do not wish to confuse YOUR topic but you and I just happen to already have Digitrax decoders and I don't recall Digitrax ever being seriously discussed in any detail here on MLS (or any other Large Scale forum). I may well be, and hope I am mistaken as I have never paid a lot of attention to DCC or MTS in the past so I happily describe myself as a fellow ignoramus when it comes to DCC. 

The truth is that I am a happy ignoramus who would like to know a bit more about DCC and MTS but not too much more about it - just enough to run the train, ring the bell and blow the whistle - without having to learn too much about brands A, B, C, D, X or whatever. 

Perhaps your biggest issue would be to be sure that your decoder can handle the power (amps) of your locomotive in that many decoders are intended for much less power (HO, N and Z gauges) than the typical G Gauge locomotives and trains. Since the decoder is already in your locomotive it most likely is the right one for that locomotive.

Jerry


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Turning off sound in many LGB locos will not change any ohm meter readings as they used the SUSI bus to power and control the sound units. The power is taken from V+ and V-. This is one of the reasons why European mfg of decoders have a SUSI bus in decoders. Even the new ESU smoke unit is tied to SUSI.


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

Jerry, 
It appears your DCC dilemma is more complex than mine. Greg and K have cleared my mind, there is no decoder on my Aristo-Craft 2 8 8 2 mallet, I know for sure none of my other locomotives have decoders, as for my n experiment it will be very simple, just one mini locomotive, one mini decoder, one beginners controller. 
If I like it maybe one day in the very distant future I will turn all G into DCC. It is afterall the most logical way to control trains in the 21st century. When and if I do that I will try to buy everything from the same manufacturer to have total certainty that everything will work well together.
From ignoramus to ignoramus. My suggestion to you would be
1. Open all your locomotives.
2. From what you find inside decide what you want to keep based either on quality or amount of similar decoders.
3. Buy a complete DCC system from one manufacturer for all your G scale setup. (You don't have to buy it all at once)
In other words start from scratch.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

trainstrainstrains said:


> Jerry,
> It appears your DCC dilemma is more complex than mine. Greg and K have cleared my mind, there is no decoder on my Aristo-Craft 2 8 8 2 mallet, I know for sure none of my other locomotives have decoders, as for my n experiment it will be very simple, just one mini locomotive, one mini decoder, one beginners controller.
> If I like it maybe one day in the very distant future I will turn all G into DCC. It is afterall the most logical way to control trains in the 21st century. When and if I do that I will try to buy everything from the same manufacturer to have total certainty that everything will work well together.
> From ignoramus to ignoramus. My suggestion to you would be
> ...


All that really matters is that you have apparently found the information you were looking for so your topic has been successful.  It is also good advice for others starting out in DCC. 

My situation is more complex but I won't confuse things by going there.

Regards,

Jerry


----------



## Homo Habilis (Jul 29, 2011)

TTT:

Though I have no experience with DCC I make the following observation from reading this and other forums -

Just because you use a single manufacturer that is not a guarantee that there will not be issues. Some of them seem to have fewer issues than others, but it's not always just plug'n play.

However, I would agree that focusing on a single source for this type of item is probably as good a strategy as any.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

krs said:


> I'm not talking about a loco with a sound system.
> 
> LGB added what they call EAV early in the game. That was some electronic circuitry added in series with the motor to allow two analog locos to be independantly controlled for switching operations. It's not something that can be turned on and off.
> Later they added similar electronics to many of their electric locos so that the pantographs would automatically go up and down when the loco reversed - that would have to happen in a specific sequence so that the loco would not loose power when it was running with catenary power.
> ...



Knut, 

This is why we "quality" as well as "quantify."

Sure there will be differences and some engines may not be able to be tested for DCC operation in this fashion. But until people do the measurements and present the data, all we have is conjecture. It would be nice to have real data.


----------



## trainstrainstrains (Nov 9, 2014)

The following is meant to be humorous and totally inoffensive.
What we need is a sort of x ray machine to look thru the plastic so we can see the electrical components inside the loco.

Jerry, you should not give up, as you know, when one starts a new thread one usually gets a lot of assistance, you should perhaps start one stating your specific preoccupation. That is what the forum is for.


----------



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

trainstrainstrains said:


> Jerry, you should not give up, as you know, when one starts a new thread one usually gets a lot of assistance, you should perhaps start one stating your specific preoccupation. That is what the forum is for.


Hi (I don't know your name) 

My difficulty is that I like to try everything but I am an expert at nothing.

Curiosity has led me to track power, PWC/PWM, MTS, DCC, DCS, Revolution, Train Engineer, steam power, battery power etc. compounded by an assortment of various brands of power, locos, decoders etc.

The result is that I may have multiple preoccupations at any given time which can be confusing and frustrating to others - and explains why I may have different topics on different products at the same time.

At times I come here and go elsewhere to hear from others who know more than me about whatever my issue of the day happens to be.

MLS is at its best when folks like you find the answers they are looking for.

Cheers,

Jerry


----------

