# Aristo vs USA



## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

I using battery power power with the Aristo TE Revolution. I would like to add either an Aristo RS-3 that I know would be easy to convert or a USA GP38-2 or GP7/9. How easy or difficult is it to convert either of the USA engines?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

fairly simple. drop by some evening and I can show you how. 
You might be wise to buy the RS first, once you understand it more then you'll do the USA .


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## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

I have all ready converted a older Bachman 10 wheeler and an older Aristo Pacific with no problems.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Great , the USAT will be easy, unhook the (I think) center wire pins in the motor blocks. thats the in put. cut one pair off. fold the other pair up into the body and follow instructions. If you want all the lights to work trace them. 
I'm sorry, I have done so many different kinds I can't remember details. 
Basic principles. 

I may have to e-mail you for help on the ten wheeler. We have a new convert to the hobby and thats what he bought first.


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I think you should have all three at some point! Buy and trade through eBay if you have limited space. I'd probably start off with the GP 7 since its closer in age to the steamers than the 38s, and it tends to track and pull a little better than the RS3. Airwire has drop in decoders for the usa if you choose to try them out for R/C. But if not, they are simple to rewire, although the lighting can be trickey if you don't use the factory circuit boards.


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## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

dpotp....... I would agree. The TE in USA is quite easy and works well.

if you're near Marty... He'll have it done in a breeze...


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No reason to cut the wires or pins, just unplug the track pickup connectors inside the shell. Then if you change your mind or sell the loco, it's not butchered. 

Greg


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## BillBrakeman (Jan 3, 2008)

Going to this site will give you step by step instructions on how to install a TE Revo in several different Aristo or USA Locomotives. 
Bill


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## dpotp (May 25, 2011)

Thanks for the input guys. The GP7 fits in perfectly for what I was looking for.


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Please be aware the way I did my USA Trains installations in the past is going to change. As the voltage regulators in most USA Trains diesels are incompatible with the PWC output of the Revolution receiver, I used to gut the locomotives and install my own wiring and LED light circuits. Now that Aristo-Craft has released their PWC to Linear DC Board (CRE-57091), all that is no longer necessary.

With the new board installed in the motor wires of the Revolution receiver, the output will be linear DC and not affect the USA Trains voltage regulators and their lights. The track power wires can be unplugged from the main USAT circuit board, and the output wires from the CRE-57091 board connected in their place at either PICK 1 or 2. The wires from the CRE-57091 board will actually be one half of a 2-wire connector set (All Electronics CON-240), so it will just plug right into the USAT main circuit board. With the main circuit board being feed linear DC, the USAT locomotive should behave exactly as it did with clean track power.

I am presently working on a number of other projects at this time waiting for my order of CRE-57091 boards to arrive. When they do, I will restore one of my GP-9s and use the new method to install battery power and radio control. A web site article should appear about a week after that. I believe this new method will be far easier and faster than my old method.

People have asked why I didn’t just connect the USA Trains light boards to the lighting outputs (HD1, HD COM, HD2) of the Revolution receiver. A GP-9 light board functions at 3 volts but draws about 170 milliamps. In order to drop the voltage of the lithium-ion battery (25.5 volts when freshly charged) to 3 volts, a resistor would have to drop (25.5 -3) 22.5 volts and handle 170 milliamps of power. That is (22.5 V x .170 A) 3.825 watts of power to dissipate as heat.

By installing each set of LED headlights in series in their own circuits, and each set of LED number light lights in series in their own circuits, I was able to reduce the draw to in each circuit to 18.5 milliamps. Because the LEDs are in series, each 1K resistor would only have to drop (25.5 - 7) 18.5 volts and handle 18.5 milliamps of power. That is (18.5 V x .0185 A) 0.34 watts of power to dissipate as heat.

 

But I feel that gutting the locomotive and rewiring it is a lot of work to solve a simple problem that most would not want to tackle. The new board should eliminate that need. It also does not eliminate the possibility of adding LED headlights.

The headlights in the GP-9 are wired in parallel and operate at 3 volts. Each is wired to the USA Trains light board with a red and black wire. Each bulb could be unsoldered and replaced with a 3.5 volt, white LED. The bulbs would have to be tested for polarity before being replaced. With any luck, the red wire is positive and the black wire negative.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Paul, not trying to derail the thread, but I've done a number of quick and dirty installs just feeding the motor output of a decoder into the track pickups. The decoder output is of course PWM as are virtually all current motor drive systems. 

I've not had any problems with USAT lighting, and I think that is because they use linear regulators. 

Now, in the case of Aristo locos, usually older ones like an RS-3, their voltage regulator is really a small microprocessor, and it definitely goes nuts. 

What problems have you encountered on the USAT locos that I should watch for? Maybe I am missing something. 

So far, I have done the quick and dirty in: 

S4 
F3 
PA-1, PB-1 
GP7 

Thanks, Greg


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

Can a DPDT switch be installed at the point where the pick up connector is located so that either a battery or track power be used? Is it difficult to be installed. Is there information on installing one? 
Ron


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

On USA engines, the leads from the power truck to the connector with single wires is the motor, the doubled wires are the track pickups as USA used 1 wire for the shoe and 1 wire for the rail and they come together at the connector at the printed circuit board.


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 12 Jan 2012 05:47 PM 
Paul, not trying to derail the thread, but I've done a number of quick and dirty installs just feeding the motor output of a decoder into the track pickups. The decoder output is of course PWM as are virtually all current motor drive systems. 

I've not had any problems with USAT lighting, and I think that is because they use linear regulators. 

Now, in the case of Aristo locos, usually older ones like an RS-3, their voltage regulator is really a small microprocessor, and it definitely goes nuts. 

What problems have you encountered on the USAT locos that I should watch for? Maybe I am missing something. 

So far, I have done the quick and dirty in: 

S4 
F3 
PA-1, PB-1 
GP7 

Thanks, Greg Hi Greg!

I had problems with my GP-9s, an NW-2, and a friend’s GP-30. The voltage regulator LM317T will not function properly with PWC until full power is reached. Only then will the headlights come on. I assume at full power there are no longer any voltage spikes.

I wonder if your GP-7 is an early version with high voltage headlight bulbs and no regulator. A friend has one of those in my workshop. 

The S-4 does not have a voltage regulator for the lights as it has LEDs. I assume the large resistor on the main circuit board is used instead. On this switcher I was I was also able to use the quick installation method. The only complaint I have heard on this installation is the faint glow of the rear headlight when the locomotive is moving forward.

A friend’s LGB Mallet had the same problem with PWC. We ran the headlamp wires back to a power tender and used a 620 ohm, 1 watt dropping resistor to hook it up to the Revolution receiver lighting outputs. The rear headlamp on the tender was hooked up the same way.

Hopefully with the PWC to Linear DC Board in the receiver’s motor wires, all the USA Trains installations will be easier. The less I have to mess with a locomotive, the better I like it.


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## Paul Norton (Jan 8, 2008)

Posted By Ron Hill on 12 Jan 2012 06:25 PM 
Can a DPDT switch be installed at the point where the pick up connector is located so that either a battery or track power be used? Is it difficult to be installed. Is there information on installing one? 
Ron Hi Ron!

I did exactly that for Ralph Dipple when he first joined our group and wrote an article about for our club web site. He never did run his F3-A on track power and the article was later removed.

The battery power link was actually a MU connector for trailing power car containing a receiver and battery packs. Plugging a battery pack directly into the USA Trains main circuit board would be exciting, but only until the first curve.

If you intend to install the battery pack and receiver/decoder on-board, the motor wires of the receiver/decoder would be connected to the USA Trains main circuit board through the DPDT switch, so the speed and direction of the locomotive could be controlled.

I still have the text of the article and the pictures and diagrams. If you would like them, just send me an e-mail.
[email protected]

The article still has it HTML tags, but the content is easily read.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the information Paul, will keep your experiences in mind. 

My PA's definitely have linear regulators... no problems from DCC decoder motor output. 

The GP7 (USAT does not make GP9)... definitely has the low voltage lights, because I accidentally hit them with track voltage once... the 5v headlight bulbs are not available from USAT anymore, just the track voltage ones. 

For a bit of fun, I did carefully research GP7 vs. GP9, it's a GP7 for sure. 

read the intro for fun: http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/usat-motive-power/gp7 

Thanks again Paul. 

Greg


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