# Parts list and or wiring diagram for 22194 SP Mogul or GN/C&O 0-4-0?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I just got a LGB 22194 Southern Pacific Mogul. I intend to replace the tender with a standard LGB Mogul tender rather than the one that came with it. 

Does anyone happen to have either the parts diagrams or wiring diagrams for the loco and tender (especially a diagram that explains the wiring harness between the loco and tender)? I am mainly interested in identifying the wires between the loco and tender so I can replace the tender and sound system with a regular Mogul tender and Sierra Soundtraxx sound system. I don't think this loco/tender has a chuff circuit but that is one thing I am trying to verify without disassembling the Mogul.

I believe the tender is the same as the one that comes with the LGB Great Northern and C&O 0-4-0s but I have not found either parts or wiring diagrams for them either. 

As far as I know only the GN and C&O 0-4-0s and the SP Mogul have this tender and I believe the 22194 is the only Mogul with the DCC interface so wiring diagrams for other Moguls or 2-4-0s will not help (I already have those).

It may be that the GN and C&O tenders share the same wiring circuits as the LGB 2-4-0 locos such as the UP with sound but I don't want to start connecting wires until I am sure especially since only the SP Mogul has a DCC interface which would suggest a different wiring circuit.


Thanks,

Jerry


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## JeffS (Jun 5, 2008)

Jerry - 

May be too late, but I found some info about the 22194 that might be useful. There's some info in German here: 

http://www.lgb-fan.de/faq/welche-mzs-decoder-werden-fur-die-lgb-22194-sp-mogul-dampflok-benotigt-2/ 

You can run it through one of the internet translators (I used translate.google.com). The gist of it is that the loco has a "DCC interface" and takes a 55027 or similar and the tender, with the sound, has a "decoder direct" interface which takes a 55021 or Massoth L. 

have fun, Jeff


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By JeffS on 15 Jul 2010 06:22 AM 
Jerry - 

May be too late, but I found some info about the 22194 that might be useful. There's some info in German here: 

http://www.lgb-fan.de/faq/welche-mzs-decoder-werden-fur-die-lgb-22194-sp-mogul-dampflok-benotigt-2/ 

You can run it through one of the internet translators (I used translate.google.com). The gist of it is that the loco has a "DCC interface" and takes a 55027 or similar and the tender, with the sound, has a "decoder direct" interface which takes a 55021 or Massoth L. 

have fun, Jeff 

Hi Jeff,

Thanks, that is pretty much what I had. Putting the decoders into the loco and tender would not be a problem if I was going to use the original tender and sound systems but one loco does not have a tender (I will use a regular LGB Mogul tender for it) and I expect to replace the sound system in the tender with a different one. 

Unfortunately LGB used a starter set sound system with this Mogul.

Someone mentioned that this loco does not have a chuff magnet which will change my plans.

Regards,

Jerry


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Jerry, do you respond to private messages?


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By jgallaway81 on 15 Jul 2010 12:32 PM 
Jerry, do you respond to private messages? 

Yes, Always.

Just send it to me.

Jerry


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

JERRY!!!!!! SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I found a scanned version of the user manual which includes a pinout for the sound /power connection! 

here you go. if you don't get this before the pdf disappears... I grabbed a copy to my archives.. let me know if you need an email! 

http://www.champex.net/lgb_produktdatenbank_d-e/medien.nsf/medien/EC0E1B82B7E15E4C8525714D0048013A/$FILE/2x194_042006.pdf


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

My guess is that Jerry must have already found this since his post of 15 July *2010*. 

He has listed several LGB "data sites" on a recent thread, and this one was one of them. 

I don't remember the thread off hand, but I have listed those LGB sites on my web site too. 


Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I believe the oil tender is the same as the 0-4-0/2-4-0 and is really a 69232 sound version. 

Big wiring difference. 

Moguls had several woiring differences. 

Old versions: 
3 wires, 2 for track power, one for tender light (used 1 track power connection for the light). 

6 wires, same as above plus 3 wires for chuff circuit, sensors were on rear engine axle, sound unit and speaker were in tender. 

MTS version, sound is in engine, 3 pairs of wires to tender. 1 pair is track power, one pair is rear light, and 3rd pair is for the speaker. 

Then there is the oil tender with a 5 pin connector. 2 wires for track power, other 3 controlled sound and rear light. 

SO, be careful mixing tenders between moguls as you can get real smoke one time only!!!!! Real smelly also!!!!


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Guys,

I'm afraid I fell asleep at the wheel and I had totally forgotten about this topic.

Those poor 22194 SP Moguls have been sitting there where I put them down 7 months ago. I walk past them once in awhile but I had forgotten that I was trying to figure out how to wire one of them. 

I had never found the manual I was looking for (thanks for the link to it).

Greg is right in that I did post links to several sites for LGB information but it never occurred to me to look for what I had asked about. I had mainly posted the links for others to find stuff.

We have had some medical stuff that came up with my wife and that pretty much scrambled whatever thought processes I had.

You will understand better as you get older.

I will set a deadline of July of this year to get around to doing something with the 22194's. Thanks for waking me from my slumbers.

Regards,

Jerry

aka Rip Van Winkle


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Hey Jerry, sorry about your troubles.

If its any consolation, it doesn't just happen when you are older. My wife also has issues which we need to keep a very careful eye on. 

I happened to have discovered the manual while looking for the parts diagrams for ANY of the three engines, either the C&O or GN 0-4-0 switchers or the SP mogul. That blasted little mysterious vanderbilt tender is the ONLY LGB item in my roster that I haven't found diagrams for. It took a lot of careful looking but I found diagrams for the Stainz (fairly easy actually) the 50' steel boxcar (the hardest) the centerflow hopper and the unibody tankcar, all of which I have in non-Marty sized fleets. 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By jgallaway81 on 18 Feb 2011 06:10 PM 
Hey Jerry, sorry about your troubles.

If its any consolation, it doesn't just happen when you are older. My wife also has issues which we need to keep a very careful eye on. 

I happened to have discovered the manual while looking for the parts diagrams for ANY of the three engines, either the C&O or GN 0-4-0 switchers or the SP mogul. That blasted little mysterious vanderbilt tender is the ONLY LGB item in my roster that I haven't found diagrams for. 


Hi (sorry but I don't know your first name),

We were incredibly lucky. It turned out that Marilyn did not have a glioma as was at first believed but that sure put our priorities in perspective and toy trains did not make the top 10. Marilyn has stopped seeing the neurosurgeon and is instead seeing a neurologist which says everything.

A side effect for me has been that I do not seem to keep focused on anything anymore. Perhaps that will change when she retires in a few months.

I have discovered over the years that there is a high percentage of MLSers who have severe medical situations in their families that they are dealing with (quietly). Sometimes things that are said on MLS may reflect things in someone's life that has nothing to do with toy trains.

That Vanderbilt Tender is an oddity that has mystified me as well. I am not sure if the one I have is from a Mogul or from a 2-4-0 but I know the other tender I intend to use was from a 2019s and is definitely NOT wired correctly for a 22194. 

Eventually I will get back to it and sort it out. I do appreciate your assistance,

Jerry


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## Mike M (Jan 3, 2008)

I know this is a old topic but I just got one in and the plug was torn off. I have a plug but need to see which order they go There is a set of three and a set of two not sure how to but back in plug. Any one have picture or order? 
Mike


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If you have the oil tender with the 5 pin connector, then search this site for the 69232 tender info as it shows info form Stan Cederleaf and myself on what we found on the 5 pin connector wiring.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Sound Systems Forum/Topic: LGB Mogul to Sound tender connection[/b]


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## Mike M (Jan 3, 2008)

this info is helpful for the tender but I can not find which wire goes to what pin. I have 2 sets of wires coming from the mogul I set has 3 wires and the other is 2 wires What I am looking for is which wire goes to what pin. 
Mike


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

On the 5 wire cable connection: 

2 of the wires are easy to figure out... With the engine switch set to 0, wheels are connected to 2 of the pins and these pins go to the socket at the rear of the tender. 
Looking from the rear of the engine, left pin to engine left wheel, right pin to right wheel. 
Now set switch to highest number and a third wire is connected to one side of the engine, this is the common power lead for light and sound. 
A 4th wire is for the rear tender light(5 volts) and the fifth wire is for the sound card if present. 

I do not know of a real wiring diagram for any LGB locos, just cable documents and I never saw one with the mogul with 5 wires.


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## Mike M (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks Dan this is the latest mogul with the vandy sound tender 
Mike


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Time flies...

Here it is now 2015 and I find myself back where I stated this topic.

I now have the same questions and when I Googled the questions about the 22194s I ended up back here at my old topic (I'm not a fast mover or thinker these days but that's OK since the layout is exactly as it was when I started this topic years ago). Many of the trains have probably not been run in the meantime.

What has changed is that I have decided to change the crawl space layout to LGB MTS rather than analog track power as it turns out that most of the locos already have decoders in them. 

Surprisingly I am back with the two 22194's. The new big LGB LOK book has been very helpful in figuring out which locos are likely to have factory decoders.

It is a problem programming them all with ID numbers that I can keep track of but I've figured out how to use my Massoth Navigator with an LGB Central Station III to program the ID of any decoder equipped LGB loco anywhere on the layout - until I got to the 22194s. The LOK book said the 22194s have decoders built in and strangely they react (move) when I try to program them but they do not respond when I try to run them with the Navigator.

One has an LGB Mogul Tender with a Sierra Sound System and the other has the dinky LGB Southern Pacific Tender.

Tomorrow I will try putting an LGB 55021 or Massoth L decoder in the SP tender and see if I can then program the loco and tender.

I will also go back over the previous posts and see if I can download the referenced links but so far they have to worked.

I will probable have more LGB MTS questions and I appreciate the help that has been given.

Dan, I'll be looking into substitutes for the LGB 55021 and Massoth L decoders or whatever else is plug in compatible with LGB 6 & 10 pin interfaces (mostly Moguls, Forneys and Mikados). I really hate putting decoders and sound units in the Forneys but I have done it a few times.

Unfortunately I don't know anyone within several hundred miles that are running LGB MTS layouts and at this point in my life it really seems perfect for me.

LGB - I'm REALLY glad I met ya all those years ago. I sure miss LGBOA!!!

Thanks guys,

Jerry

PS Hopefully any errors are minimal I am trying to type this while using the TV as a monitor.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

OK. Some progress here. I did check the links plus I found the instructions which say:

Multi-Train System
To use this model with the LGB
Multi-Train System, both loco and
tender have to be equipped with
decoders.
Locomotive:
The locomotive is equipped with a
DCC interface to connect a decoder
(Fig. 6). Remove the plug on the
decoder interface and connect the
decoder. We recommend the 55027
MTS Loco Decoder III. Its plug fits
directly onto the socket of the interface.

Hints:
- The plug of the decoder fits only in
one direction onto the pins on the
loco circuit board.
- If the decoder is removed, the original
plug must be replaced on the
DCC interface. Otherwise, the loco
will not work.
- The power control switch does not
work when a decoder is installed.
Tender:
The tender has a direct decoder
interface. For Multi-Train System
operation, it can be equipped with an
LGB MTS Decoder (LGB 55021). The
MTS Decoder Interface Cable (LGB
55026) is not required.
Hint: If this model is equipped with a
decoder, the digital/analog DIP
switches on the tender circuit board
must be set to OFF. The DIP switches
should remain in this setting, even if
the model is used on an analog layout.
Attention! We strongly recommend
decoder installation by an LGB service
station. For more information,
contact your authorized LGB retailer
or an LGB service station (see
Authorized Service).
When loco and tender are equipped
with decoders, you can control the
functions remotely. Press the lighting
button (“9” with remotes) to turn
the lights on or off. Press the function
buttons to control the following
functions:
1: Whistle
2: Bell
With a Loco Remote or Universal
Remote, press the numbered loco
function buttons. For example, to
trigger the bell, press button “2” on
the Loco Remote or Universal
Remote.

I hate to use up two to four of my remaining LGB/Massoth decoders but at least it appears that the info I had that these locos came with decoders was incorrect so I won't waste more time in that direction.

With the cost of two decoders per 22194 I may first look at some other LGB locos that just need a single decoder.

Jerry


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry, make sure when programming locos with 2 decoders that you only have one hooked up at a time. 
This is easy for the 22194 engine as you would leave the tender disconnected. The tender is not as easy as it gets its power from the engine.
Also when having problems make sure the decoder (CV29) and central station are set to the same speed steps. The MTS III with a navigator can do 14 and 28 speed steps and many 55021 decoders will do both.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dan, what is your suggestion to program the tender, if you cannot have the loco connected? Would it make sense to make an adapter to connect to the tender and the rails without the loco?

Also, is there a version number range on the 55021 decoders to tell if your 55021 will do both 14 and 28 ss?

Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Double post deleted


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Jerry McColgan said:


> Surprisingly I am back with the two 22194's. The new big LGB LOK book has been very helpful in figuring out which locos are likely to have factory decoders.


The LGB LOK book, as nice as it is, is actually wrong in this instance.

Seems they just copied the information from the 2006 LGB catalogue which is wrong as well.

That loco doesn't have an on-board decoder as the catalogue and the LOK book stated.

This loco, with the confusing information, is a good candidate for detailed info in the Large Scale database.
Does anyone have any additional information we could add there? 
Like a wiring diagram or exploded parts diagram?
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=1193

Knut


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Knut,

I don't have much to add so far. 

You are correct in that I had found the same erroneous information about decoders in various LGB documentation. There are other significant errors in the LOK book including several missing LGB locos but it is a good reference book. One problem is that all prices are in DM and many US items do not have a list price. I had been looking for the other new LGB book but have been unable to locate it.

My main two disappointments in this loco are:

1. The tender has the small 2-4-0 tender style wheels which provide neither track contact nor provision for adding LGB ball bearing wheels with track contacts.

2. The "sound" is the same sound quality as that provided with the 2-4-0s with sound (nothing like the LGB digital sound quality of the rest of the LGB Moguls with digital sound). 

I think the Vanderbilt tender looks out of scale with the loco but thats just my opinion.

All in all it is fair in that the price was considerably lower than other LGB Moguls with factory digital sound.

For now I will keep the one 22194 with a 2019s tender and Sierra Sound and run it under track power. I've put BB wheels on the tender and wired it so the loco has the extra 4 track contacts (it needs them).

I'm not willing to spend $200+ for two decoders on the other 22194 so I may try to figure out if I can use Digitrax DG583S decoders instead. I might use one LGB decoder in the loco and try putting an LGB 41352 sound board in the tender. Meanwhile I've added BB wheels to a boxcar behind the tender to get the extra track contacts.

For now I've moved from the 22194s to the Mikados (which are about done - fortunately all had decoders already) and now the F7's which are driving me nuts.

Thanks for the link to the 22194 manual. I don't think I had that one. I've never seen a 22194 parts diagram and believe it or not I have never had a Mogul apart (with my big hands I hate working on any loco).

Jerry


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I have posted here in the past about how I added 1 power pickup to the 2-4-0 tender and also the wiring of the 5 pin connector for the 69232 which should be the same for the oil version as the oil tender and coal tender tie to the 2-4-0, so one could add the coal tender (69232) to the Mogul with the 5 pin connector. And some additional info was added by Stan Cedarleaf.

Greg, I did make a cable for testing just the tenders with the 5 pin connector. 
When testing the tender the light is a 6 volt bulb.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB decoder versions are read by the MTS software and the info is in CV 7 plus CV 106.
CV106 is for the type of decoders. 192 is the 55021.
I have a 55021 at rev 2.8 (CV7 is 28) and does 28 speed steps. I also have 2.4 and 2.5 revs.
I think the 2.4 is 14 steps only, 2.5 will do 28 steps.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> I have posted here in the past about how I added 1 power pickup to the 2-4-0 tender and also the wiring of the 5 pin connector for the 69232 which should be the same for the oil version as the oil tender and coal tender tie to the 2-4-0, so one could add the coal tender (69232) to the Mogul with the 5 pin connector. And some additional info was added by Stan Cedarleaf.


Hi Dan, I have not been able to find that post yet but I will continue to look for it.

In the meantime I found this in my files:


Knowledge Database 
In Deutsch
Number:
1243 

Title:
What decoders should be used with the LGB 22194 SP Mogul Steam Loco, Vanderbilt Tender, Sound? 

Last modified:
26.09.2006 

To use this model with the LGB Multi-Train System, both engine and tender have to be equipped with decoders.

Engine:
The engine is equipped with a DCC interface to connect a decoder. Remove the plug on the decoder interface and connect the decoder. We recommend the 55027 MTS Loco Decoder III. Its plug fits directly onto the socket of the interface.

Hints: 
- The plug of the decoder fits only in one direction onto the pins on the loco circuit board.
- If the decoder is removed, the original plug must be replaced on the DCC interface. Otherwise, the loco will not work.
- The power control switch does not work when a decoder is installed.

Tender:
The tender has a direct decoder interface. For Multi-Train System operation, it can be equipped with an LGB MTS Decoder (LGB 55021). The MTS Decoder Interface Cable (LGB 55026) is not required.

Hint: If this model is equipped with decoders, the digital/analog DIP switches on the tender circuit board must be set to OFF. The DIP switches should remain in this setting, even if the model is used on an analog layout. 






Knowledge Database 
In Deutsch
Number:
1247 

Title:
How do I synchronize the sounds on my decoder-equipped 22194 locomotive? 

Last modified:
27.09.2006 

To use this model with the LGB Multi-Train System, both the engine and tender have to be equipped with decoders. (See FAQ 1243 for details.) Then, for the best sound synchronization, we recommend that the decoder CVs be reprogrammed to these values:

Tender Decoder (55021)
CV2 = 25
CV3 = 1
CV4 = 1

Engine Decoder (55027)
CV2 = 2 
CV3 = 10 
CV4 = 12

The tender decoder requires the load of the engine in order to reliably accept programming. To do this:
- Place the engine and tender on the programming track or connect the programming wires to the shoes of the engine.
- Connect the engine to the tender
- Place the engine cab switch in the number 3 (sound on) position, so that the sound tender decoder will accept programming information
- Reprogram the CV`s listed under “Tender Decoder” only. The tender decoder is now programmed correctly. 
- Now, place the cab switch in the number 2, 1, or 0 (sound off) position, so that the sound tender decoder will not accept programming information, but the engine decoder will accept programming information
- Reprogram the CV`s listed under “Engine Decoder” only. The engine decoder is now programmed correctly.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry. you found great info.
The tender and engine get programmed as a set and then the engine gets reprogrammed separately.
I would add CV1 for the DCC address of the engine and tender.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

> Hi Dan, I have not been able to find that post yet but I will continue to look for it.


That's why I would like to add the wiring information to the database - that way everything is in one place

I also added a searchable pdf version of the old LGB Knowledge Database that one can download to their PC and then search on that locally

Knut


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

krs said:


> I also added a searchable pdf version of the old LGB Knowledge Database that one can download to their PC and then search on that locally
> 
> Knut


Hi Knut, 

That is good to know. I will have to find it and download the PDF.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Jerry,

Right now it's on the front page at www.gbdb.info

But it won't be there for long, I just got a batch of Bachmann items I need to add and it's always the last three items that show on the front page.

But you can always use the regular or advanced search to find an item.
The direct link for the LGB database page is here:
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=7186

The download link is then at the bottom right.

I converted this from a local webpage someone sent me years ago to a searchable pdf - hopefully that conversion worked properly.
I tried a few searches to test and those worked fine so I assume the whole LGB database was converted correctly.

Knut


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Knut;

That is great information to have.

Thanks,

Jerry


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks, Jerry

I just pay for the server, try to keep the software running and make some enhancements now and then.

The "thanks" really go to LGB, Aristocraft, USA Trains, etc. etc. who gave permission to allow us to host their documentation on the site and the many people who contributed pictures and information.
I do a lot of the uploading and posting but most of the images come from other people.

Knut


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Time flies...

I just put the SP Mogul & tender on the tracks, connected them and turned power on.

I connected an LGB SP boxcar with LGB ball bearing wheels to the SP tender (the tender wheels have no power pick up).

The Mogul ran fine but the sound was not very good (I think it is the same sound as the LGB SP 2-4-0 tender).

The important thing is that after all this time it is up and running and I am happy with it. 

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Knut,

I just downloaded the information including the instructions for the LGB Southern Pacific Mogul from your website.

It was really helpful. 

Thanks, 

Jerry


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