# Southernsteamtrains website is down



## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Can anyone contact Jim Pitts? He needs to renew his domaine ownership. Today!
Rgds
David


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## jim.pitts (Jun 1, 2019)

*southern steam trains*

Thank you for noting that SouthernSteamTrains
is off-line or down. We are in a time of computer soft-ware 
transition as well in our dealership focus because the end of
production by Aster Hobby. 

We plan to repost and continue the website as a live-steam
reference and feature quality “pre-owned” locomotives from
our inventory and for those down-sizing personal collections.

The “time they are a changing” and as you know our hobby 
teaches patience! I welcome you being in touch by calling
(864) 979-4128 or by email


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

jim.pitts said:


> Thank you for noting that SouthernSteamTrains
> is off-line or down. We are in a time of computer soft-ware
> transition as well in our dealership focus because the end of
> production by Aster Hobby.


Jim, are you suggesting that Aster will no longer be designing, producing and selling any form of G1 model trains ?. Very sad news if true although recent product has not been up to Aster's usual standard.

DougieL

PS your web site has always been my go to reference for information on Aster's since I started to collect and run in 2014. Many thanks.


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## David_DK (Oct 24, 2008)

Thanks Jim. Your site is THE reference would be awfull if it suddenly was gone.
Hope you are up and running again soon.
Pre-owned focus sounds good
Regards David


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## Accucraft UK (Sep 16, 2013)

jim.pitts said:


> Thank you for noting that SouthernSteamTrains
> is off-line or down. We are in a time of computer soft-ware
> transition as well in our dealership focus because the end of
> production by Aster Hobby.


News to us and we are the Aster-Accucraft agents for the UK! Please either take down or correct this statement Jim.

Aster Hobby continues to produce locomotives in association with Accucraft Trains (as widely discussed in other threads on this forum) and has plans for new models in the near future.

Graham Langer (MD, Accucraft UK)


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## AuSteam (Jul 26, 2019)

We hope to see it up again soon Jim, as it is a great reference.
Better than any Aster reference material !

Aster-Accucraft ≠ Aster Hobby


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## dougiel (Jun 3, 2008)

Perhaps Jim Pitts is referring to the fact that Aster Hobbies Japan no longer manufacture on its own account. All manufacture is now in co-operation with Accucraft.

DougieL


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## gearedsoft (Jun 20, 2009)

On the internet archive is the site still available. Here is the link for the roster page:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190323191525/https://www.southernsteamtrains.com/roster.htm


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## graham25 (Nov 22, 2015)

Thank you for the link to the Aster archive.
It is the only way i know off to find out when the different models where manufactured.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

It's good to see that the Aster Roster is still available. Producing and maintaining it is a service that Jim has provided for years that I am sure all hobbyists appreciate.

Andrew has made a post over at the FB Gauge 1 Group page that provides clues as to what Jim referred to above. Perhaps Andrew will provide input here as well?

If I may be so bold, here is what I see . . .

The new business model is a source of challenge that may be perceived as difficult if not impossible to overcome.

As an outsider, I can see both sides - or at least I pretend that I can.

The Aster exclusive dealers of yesteryear invested heavily of their time to bring new models to market. They provided the research used by the manufacturer and as I have understood it, they invested toil and treasure in the models they commissioned. In addition, it was the responsibility of the exclusive dealer to market the product and to provide service support. By all accounts they did a good job and in so doing helped to promote the brand. The reputation of Aster Hobby was not only built by the manufacturer, but also by the dealership network.

As I have said, I am not an insider, but I can see that the only way the exclusive dealers could remain viable is if they did not sell new product outside their territory by mutual agreement, and if they received enough compensation from sales within their proscribed territory to remain viable as business entities.

With a shrinking market, to stay in business must be a serious challenge even with some degree of exclusivity.

Looming Brexit and the weakening of the Pound hasn't helped.

Once the deal was made between Aster and Accucraft, the business model changed.

Exclusivity was out the window as Accucraft sells direct and through other channels.

Here I am assuming something that is purely speculation on my part and I stand to be corrected.

I'd bet that Aster/Accucraft does not compensate the old exclusive Aster dealers in the way of commission for product sold directly in their old territory - nor are they compensated for providing service to end-users.

I'm betting that the Aster dealers have felt as if they have been kicked in the ass - or at least have felt the squeeze from competition in a market that was very tough for years without competition.

So what is the other side?

Well, I presume that Aster would be completely out of business if they did not link up with either Accucraft or Wuhu Arts, so for them, it may have been an existential crisis.

This should stimulate discussion. 

Edit: I have not had any dialogue with any Aster dealer for at least a couple of years. All the errors in the above are my own.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Excellent description of what has happened.
When I first entered Gauge One, it was because the Aster Schools had just arrived on the market.
Then, every year after that 'non model engineers' like me could join the ranks of Gauge One enthusiasts, and it seemed that models would sell out as soon as they became available.
In recent years with the other manufacturers, there seems to be so many models available, and fewer of us to buy them, that I really wonder when Accucraft will finally have to stop!
Cheers,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> I presume that Aster would be completely out of business if they did not link up with either Accucraft or Wuhu Arts


A year or so ago that seems to be what happened. Aster announced it could no longer manufacture in Japan. They moved to smaller premises and sold all the spare parts. :-( There are several threads in 2016, e.g.
http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/71762-aster-repair-parts.html


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Pete Thornton said:


> A year or so ago that seems to be what happened. Aster announced it could no longer manufacture in Japan. They moved to smaller premises and sold all the spare parts. :-( There are several threads in 2016, e.g.
> http://forums.mylargescale.com/18-live-steam/71762-aster-repair-parts.html



I had that in mind, Pete when I posted.

It's a tough situation.

The guys who worked hard to bring out new models and to support them must feel betrayed, but at the same time, I would make the same decision Fujii-san made if I felt that I had to contract the business or go belly-up.

Few of us know the facts and I certainly do not.

For all we know, Accucraft may own nearly everything by now.

Here are new products from the Aster Hobby site:

New Aster Products, August 2019

I'm sure we all hope the company survives in some form. It'll be a sad day for those who remember the heyday when they disappear if they do.

Meanwhile though, the former exclusive dealers were left high and dry. Could it have been prevented? I doubt it.

Accucraft too must need whatever volume of sales that is available to stay in business.


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## fredlub (Feb 7, 2010)

ASTER has made high quality 1 gauge locomotives for about 45 years. A lot of modelrailway (railroad) manufacturers have lived shorter, some lived (or live like Märklin) longer. But you could guess it would end some day. For modelrailway historians, this is great, they can finish another chapter (I understood a book on ASTER is going to be published by G1MRA). 
Only Accucraft distributors will suggest ASTER is still alive (a bit like Corgi Bassett Lowke). They cannot fool me anyway. 
Regards
Fred


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## AsterUK (Jan 2, 2008)

I was the sole UK distributor for Aster Hobby Co Inc for nearly 22 years. Today I am not. If anyone wants to read why, then please see my website www.asterhobbies.co.uk

I do not plan any to make any controversial postings on this or any other Forum. If I have something to say then I will say it on my website.

Best wishes to all.

Andrew Pullen
Aster Hobbies UK LLP


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## du-bousquetaire (Feb 14, 2011)

When I remember the days when I would blow a pressure gauge and Fulgurex would mail me one free of charge I feel sad . Aster used to work like Rolls Royce. Once a friend broke two bogies sideframe on his Aster NYC J1A Hudson. A friend suggested I write to Mr Inoue, less than a week later a letter arrived from Japan and a week later the sideframes did. Now that is a far stretch from what we see now. Nostalgia...


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I have always been able to get parts from Aster and still can, just not for very early engines, now for models up to about 10 years old. Always a great company to deal with.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

I think it may be best if the sordid details be left to those whom they actually concern and for the rumor mill to stop churning out the chaff. I see a lot of misinformation going on above and have to really wonder exactly how many bridges people are selling in Brooklyn, London, Seattle, etc...

As for parts, there was no complete selling of all the parts; merely a culling of the second rate and useless bad parts. This especially included parts of which there were an excessive amount of and no call for in the spares department, but it was not an exhaustive sale of all spares. 
To those who think of the "sale" as being true, please explain to me where parts from spares orders are coming from. This is simply spreading more chaff from the mill. 

Yes, models prior to 1980 have had spares service discontinued, which is not saying much as there was very little left in terms of parts. However through careful cross-compatibility, there are still some sundries available that were used on later models. If anyone here has questions on how to use sundry parts from later models on the pre-1980 models, please contact me off list.

Any other issues pertaining to the recent events with Aster Hobbies UK and Aster Hobby Co should be left to their official channels for news of further notices/proceedings as Andrew has stated above.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

rbednarik said:


> I think it may be best if the sordid details be left to those whom they actually concern and for the rumor mill to stop churning out the chaff. I see a lot of misinformation going on above and have to really wonder exactly how many bridges people are selling in Brooklyn, London, Seattle, etc...
> 
> As for parts, there was no complete selling of all the parts; merely a culling of the second rate and useless bad parts. This especially included parts of which there were an excessive amount of and no call for in the spares department, but it was not an exhaustive sale of all spares.
> To those who think of the "sale" as being true, please explain to me where parts from spares orders are coming from. This is simply spreading more chaff from the mill.
> ...



*A helpful clarification, Ryan on the spare parts issue.*

I took for granted in my two posts above that it was widely known that only old parts of excess inventory were sold and that Aster retained most if not all of the good stuff. This had been discussed here shortly after the announcement, but it bears repeating.

In any case, it is pretty clear from the explanation that Andrew has placed on his site - along with posts made sometime ago by Fujii-san that the business model changed as a result of Aster Hobby partnering with Accucraft. This is a fact.

A downstream result was that the original Aster channels of distribution faced new challenges in an already tough market - also a fact.

I don't think any of the details surrounding these changes should be looked upon as sordid and I do think that anyone who owns Aster or Accucraft product is at least an interested party.

There is no harm in discussing these things so long as the discussion is respectful.

Why not be even more helpful? Please consider correcting any other misinformation that you have identified.

Here is a link to Andrew's take on things:

Aster UK Statement

Cheers,

Joe


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe,

Facts, Hercule, Facts. 

I am all too aware of the details and Andrew's take on things, and that is betwixt himself, Accucraft in California and Aster in Japan. 

My focus is the misinformation in general which does nothing to actually provide a clear path. Yes, the companies have merged, yes, production has shifted slightly to further reaches and yes, some quality needs improvement. That last statement is not untrue and is a prime example of why a dumb-user-tester is required to help ease quality or assembly issues. 

One such falsity is that production is solely in China. Not at all true. It is more a mix of Japan and Korea (as before in old Aster productions) and China. All of this information is available if the AH Japan newsletters are translated, so it is no secret except to those not willing to decipher a literal translation of a public newsletter. 

It could well be speculated that there was indeed a straw (or straws) with which the back of the camel we all knew and loved was broken, and I would be inclined to agree for differing reasons this is true, however this is not a public hearing and it is all hearsay if you haven't got the facts in forms of hard numbers and data from all sides. 


One should not anticipate, nor would I expect that the corporate sides involved will have an open discussion here. That is what official releases are for once all internal affairs are settled. 

As for airing the sordid bits on a public forum; there are just some things that are not for public consumption until the dust has settled, which in this case, it really hasn't for some parties. 

How long this transition period will take is something for the merged companies to decide, but from this side of the fence the ducks are hardly in a row. The phrase, "getting the house in order" is probably a valid one. 

For now, there are ways and means to keep the Aster products going and the support for Aster-Accucraft products are available, however it would behoove the consumer to understand that buying from a preferred dealer will likely net you a more personalized and quicker turn of service when required. Much the same as the importers/exclusive dealers of old did.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Thank you, Ryan,

I think your post above is very helpful and should limit further speculation for the time being.

I missed the translated memo at Aster Hobby and I still don't see it on the newsletter page - which is also their Home page.

Can you provide a link?

Aster Hobby, Japan has not as yet updated the authorized representative links and this may be a reflection of the state of flux that you describe - or it can be an oversight.

Right now it's a bit of a muddle from the Aster side, one that will clear up over time.

It does not require any speculating to observe that Accucraft is actively marketing the Aster/Accucraft product. 

Regards,

Joe


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe,

The newsletters are a (mostly) weekly publication on the Japanese side of the Aster Hobby webpage. The links are only valid until the next newsletter posts. I believe the one from last week had the breakdown of where things are being made for the upcoming US model of the Southern Pacific P8. I'll see if I can pull up the literal translation off the PDF. The newsletters are in Japanese so you'll have to bear with the Google translation...the quick brown fox and all that. 

The lack of coordination between AH Japan's website and the Accucraft website does indeed show the flux state this transition is in. All that can be said is bear with it and await the final result, but for now: Trust, but verify.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

The below is roughly translated from Pages 1 and 2 of Volume 32 of the 2019 Aster Newsletter series [this indicates corrections to the translatory errors]: 
The British model that comes after Adams is a full-fledged alcohol aster model based on the experience of 9F and 5MT. 
 Parts are mostly made in Japan
 So, castings, decals, and paintings that require manpower are in Korea and China. 
 The plating process is already in Japan. This time, based on the previous reflections,
 We are not just our company, but packing will be done at the Chinese factory where the middle-aged babies are used. Recently hit a Japanese customer
 The sweetness of the tap that was included! , In short, do not replace "newly" with a new tap [Manufacturer?], be proud of being made in Japan and continue to use the same tap,

 The American model following Mikado is a slightly smaller West Coast model !
 The next model will be the Accucraft brand product, Southern Railway P8. https://www.accucraftestore.com/g1-sp-p-8 under more

 Detailed instruction illustrations will be released. This model is now an Acccuraft-Aster model.
 1) Boiler is completely different (Canadian Dick Abbott = Canadian Hudson designer) will be a semi-loco type.
 2) The chassis (main frame) will change Fully equalized-type rigid (coil spring will be omitted / discontinued)
 3) All metal sheets, including etched sheets, are made in Japan. The composition is basic spot welding and solder (brass plate parts) is reduced as much as possible.
 4) As for the pumps, the axial movement and the hand pump in the tender also conform to the aster type.
 5) The tender tank is divided into two parts.
 6) Since the real thing was a liquid burning (heavy oil burning) type, prepare alcohol tank. Gas tank becomes a ceramic burner
 7) The oil tank lubrication method is the Roscoe method.
 8) The cylinder will also change to an aster type (Luron piston ring) [Rulon Piston Ring]

 9) A cross port is attached (Walshat of a slide valve) [Walschaerts with cross port and slide valves]

 10) The price will be almost unchanged. (Please refer to the above URL)

​I hope this helps clarify some misnomers about where exactly production occurs on the products of the Accucraft-Aster joint venture.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

rbednarik said:


> The below is roughly translated from Pages 1 and 2 of Volume 32 of the 2019 Aster Newsletter series [this indicates corrections to the translatory errors]:
> The British model that comes after Adams is a full-fledged alcohol aster model based on the experience of 9F and 5MT.
> Parts are mostly made in Japan
> So, castings, decals, and paintings that require manpower are in Korea and China.
> ...



I love that line "middle-aged babies"!!! I think I used to qualify as a middle-aged baby, but those days are behind me.


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## StackTalk (May 16, 2014)

Dave beat me to it! 

Thanks again for the effort, Ryan. Some things to amuse are found in the translation.

As I recall, from the original discussion of the 'partnership,' it was explained that some parts would continue to be made in Japan, so it looks as though that part of the plan was executed as conceived.

The Aster exclusive dealers in the past, not only played a role in choosing a model and in providing research, but they acted as the near-final QA/QC element. Even in the JVR days, I've read that he would get a pre-production model to critique and at the least, make recommendations for improvement before the production run. Sometimes changes were accepted and sometimes rejected as a practical matter, but there was give and take and compromise and the model improved - or so I have read. I was not around at the time.

As we look at the detail level evolution between the Schools and the 241P, we see a change in concept that resulted, in part, in models that had to sell at higher prices, but into a smaller available market.

I suppose I should agree to leave it there.

My earlier posts were meant to credit the old Aster distribution team for the role that they played in making Aster - Aster. Aster Hobby did not do it alone . . . and since the As/Ac partnership formation, these guys are essentially out of a job. I feel for them.

What will be the result years hence? Who knows?

~ Joe


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Joe,


It could be argued that most of the fine detail parts are made in Japan still. The exact breakdown is not fully available for public disclosure. Other items which are more difficult to source manufacture in Japan (for cost effectiveness) are obviously done where it is most cost effective to neither drive up the FOB cost nor recude the overall ROI

Certainly things are not going to be the same. I would add that in addition, the importers of the past also fronted a significant amount of money to bring their commissions to market. The amount of investment, fiduciary and research/development wise is sobering. All of this effort and still, the risk was very high for a minimal ROI given the market is a shadow if it's former self. 


One thing that does remain a semi-constant is the revision method with pre-production models and design samples, this was seen on the 9F, Mikado and 5MT projects. There is no throw it up on the wall and see if it sticks in live steam. Everything has an engineered solution and often has multiple revisions to reach that balance you described. What may change is the lack of a third party advisor, which is not a benefit as sometimes a unbiased set of eyes are needed to find the way of Occam's Razor. 


Grouping the two companies together under one large umbrella seems to be the more sensible business practice for some stability in the ever decreasing market demand. 

It is a matter of sorting the logistics and finding what works best to take advantage of the assets from both companies and this process can take quite a long time to get sorted out, especially with ever-changing foreign policy throwing it's random wrenches into the machine! 

Yes, the models are more detailed than ever, and to an extend the customer base demanded that since there are less detailed alternatives for a lesser price available from competition, both internal and external. 

Think of it much like the market brands of automobile; VW vs Audi vs Porsche vs Bentley vs Bugatti...all under the VW AG coroprate umbrella.


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

I don't think that anyone mentioned it, but the Southern Steam Trains site is up and running, and with info about an auction this weekend.
Regards,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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