# Coupler height



## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Can anyone tell me what the coupler height (centerline of coupler to top of rail) of accucraft and bachmann G scale coaches????


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## david bunn (Jan 4, 2008)

Jack
I reckon it also depends on whether you are talking Bug Mauler, lower, or Spectrum ,higher,with the Bachmann products.
Bunny


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

On the 1:20.3 Accucraft stuff, the centerline is 1 1/8" above the railhead, as is the Bachmann 1:20 stuff. The "low" Bachmann couplers (on older Spectrum locos and 1:22.5 rolling stock) are centered 3/4" above the railhead. 

Later, 

K


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Here is a link to a Kay-Dee coupler height gauge,  if you run various brands of cars you can come to a comon ground, so-to-speak matching coupler height of the various  brands of cars out there.
 
If you use a universal height with all your cars and maintain this you will never have a coupler problem, of course you may have to adjust height by shimming to get to that common ground.
 
This gauge also has other tools on it that you may come to find useful from time to time, wheel, and track gauge.
This is well worth the price.
 
http://www.kadee.com/htmbord/page880.htm
 
Check out the site as it has various items you may also find useful.
 
Again as with all else ..IMHO
 
Sorry If I blew by your question with my own solution, but I never know coupler height, just if they match, and all mine do...I am not a rivit counter.
 
Bubba


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Heh Bubba, 

Doh, why didn't I think of that!!! 

J


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## Jack - Freshwater Models (Feb 17, 2008)

Got an 880 height gauge??? 

I'd sure like to know what the center height of the coupler above the rail is????? 

The goal is to put a coupler pocket on a loco at the correct height!

Jack


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Again if you have a gauge this won't be a problem. As you can, hold the coupler pocket to the correct height on the base of the loco and adjust accordinglyto the height of the gauge..also can be done without the gauge and MEASURE, but either way it works, depending what skill level you are, me I need the gauge and shimms.

Again take what you need, LEAVE the rest! 

Again MHO 

Oh yea call me captain obvious!

Bubba


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## Dr G (Jan 16, 2008)

Jack, 

I concur with Bubba, the height guage is a life saver. I have the #1 version (get the version for the couplers you will use they have one for #1 (1:32 scale) and a G guage (1:24 scale)). There is a great little shelf on the back end, that fits under the car to measure the coupler pad height--if the car just slides over the shelf then the coupler will be at the correct height. You just have to decide which coupler you will use and stick to it so everything lines up. Once you do a few cars it sorta "clicks" and is not very hard. 

Here is the guage, the little "shelf thingy" is on the right.











Matt


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

Okay, once again, I am going to display my stupidity or naivety, which ever you want to call it.

Shimming couplers: Sounds easy and straight forward, but i do not understand.

I have put KD's on several Bachmann 1:22 cars and I have them on most of my engines. The problem is that very few of them are exactly the same height. Some are slightly low, some are slightly high.

I removed the truck mounted couplers and cut the end piece of the car so that it was even with the bottom of the car. Then i built up a coupler pad using plastruct and wood and put the coupler on.

So, if the coupler is higher than the gauge, I want to add maybe another 1/8 inch thick piece of plastic to the mounting pad and then install the coupler. Is that the best way to do it?

If the coupler is lower than the gauge, then I need to reduce the thickness of the mountaing pad before installing the coupler. Does that sound right?

Could anyone give a description of how to use the height gauge? Someone mentioned that it can be used to position the mounting pad. How does that work?

I hate to ask these dumb questions, but I apparently live in an area where there are no other garden railroaders and therefore I have really no chance to discuss these what are probably very simple tasks with someone who has done them before. I just muddle along making every mistake that can be made.

John


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Shimming couplers


John, 
I think you have it right. Adding a layer to change the height of an object is "shimming". (Maybe 1/8" is a bit much for a shim - maybe not?) I think Kaydee sell actual shims shaped to match their coupler boxes. 




how to use the height gauge 


I don't have the Kaydee, but i have a similar coupler gauge, which is an old Big Hauler non-working coupler screwed to a block of wood which sits on top of the rails. I believe the Kaydee works the same way - just put it on the rails and see if your car couples to it. Here's their photo: 












I apparently live in an area where there are no other garden railroaders 


I find that difficult to believe. Isn't TOC (Dave Goodson) pretty close to you?


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Best thing to do is visit a Hobby Towne nearest to you or possibly any close hobby store, opting to visit a larger city to get to the Hobby Towne.
There they should have, on a spinning rack various sizes of sticks, sheets of a mulittude of thickness of Evergreen plastics, maybe you could order it online. So you never run out.

Here is a link to the various sheets, including black.

http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/Sheets.htm

Bubba


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## Dr G (Jan 16, 2008)

Jack, 

The only stupid question is the one not asked. 

You are right on track (excuse the pun). What I do is take the car and put in on a piece of track, place the coupler height guage on the track (there are groves on the bottom for this), the "shelf" on the back (right side in the above photo) should just slide under the mounting pad with no space--if it does then the coupler will be at the right height. If there is space you need a shim to fit that space, if the car hits the "shelf" then the pad is too low. In this case you can either trim the coupler pad or if it is a very small distance, put a washer between the truck and the bolster (assuming you don't mind raising the entire car body), or if the care is really too low Kadee makes offset couplers--meaning the coupler head is not centered on the shank, but rather raised up or down--their web site lists the ones they have. 

If that doesn't make sence, I can try and take a photo of one of my cars--a picture is worth a thousand words. 

Matt


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## Dr G (Jan 16, 2008)

Jack,

I have a few photos of cars I did, maybe these will help:










This is the underside of an Aristocraft covered hopper and you can see the pad I made from styrene between the coupler box and the body (coupler not installed yet).










This is one on an LGB tank car, on this one I filled in the space between the frame as the height was right, but needed something to screw the box to--note this is Kadee's smaller coupler box.










This is a pad that is a "box" on an Aristocraft box car, is not only shimmed the coupler down a bit but also extended it outward to simulate the "cushon underframe" on the prototype.

I will see if I can take a photo of how the guage is used to measure the pad tonight.

Regards,

Matt


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

That is part of the problem, When do you decide to use a washer between the truck and the car bottom and when do you use a shim?

I have been using KD 830 couplers body mounted and even at that, every car seems to come out slightly different. I thought that once I figured out how to do the first car (Speaking of bachmann 1:22 freight cars) that I could then almost mass produce the coupler modifications but that hasn't worked very well.

Another question: What is the best method of uncoupling KD couplers MANUALLY?

I have s string of six small wodden ore cars which I will probably run as a unit. I thought I could put a KD on one end of the first and last car. However, I have developed such a reliability problem with the Bachmann couplers that this may not work. Every time I turn around the Bachmann couplers are unhooking. I read somewhere that if you paint them it solves that problem, so I have carefully spray painted every coupler and still they do it. I get one fixed and then another one decides not to work. It is a never ending problem. 

I would really prefer to leave the couplers alone as they come from the box since I am not really a RIVET COUNTER. But that does not seem to be working.

One time I offered to pay someone to come to my railroad and help me fine tune my track and couplers but I did not get any real offers. Maybe people did not think I was serious.

As of today, the offer still stands: I would love to have someone come to my place and spend a day or two to help we with my problems.

I read with envy about members who have friends that actually build structures or rolling stock for their friends. I would love to be able to interact with someone in the area who could help me overcome some of the problems that I face on a daily basis. Yes, at first, it might be a one way job, but i do have other skills which I would gladly traide for any help.

So ignore me as some one who obviously got into a hobby which is much too technical for their ability.

John


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

RE: NMRA S-2 Coupler Standard for Couplers All Scales.

http://www.nmra.org/standards/sandrp/S-2All_Scales.html

When looking at the table shown in the above link, note the following:

"G" scale includes "Proportion" 1:20 - 1:32 for knuckle coupler with coupler height of 1.125 inch.
Thus, for "proportion" 1/24 scale that falls within this range, 24 x 1.125 inch = 27.0 inches if compared to prototype 1/1. (I have not checked to see what a prototype 1/1 scale narrow gauge actually is.)

AND

Thus, for "proportion" 1/29 scale that falls within this range, 29 x 1.125 inch = 32.625 inches if prototype 1/1 for standard gauge.


For number 1 scale:
"#I" scale is only one "Proportion" value at 1:32 with coupler height of 1.063 inch.
Thus, 32 x 1.063 inch = 34.016 inches if prototype 1/1.

Looking in actually rail road authored material for a prototype standard gauge spec. for coupler centerline height from the rail head I found two possibilities, one was 34 inches, the other was 34.5 inches.

Shown below is an excerpt from the Kadee spec sheet:









The Kadee 880 coupler #1 scale spec. for what they identify as "B" for coupler centerline to rail head is 1.0625 inch. Thus, it looks like a rounded up number nearly identical to the NMRA spec for "#I" scale.

The Kadee 880 coupler "G" scale spec (again for what they identify as "B") is 1.125 inch. Thus, it looks to be identical to the NMRA spec. for "G" scale.

Shown below is the Kadee 880 gauge I purchased:



















What I measured on the Kadee 880 gauge I purchased was 1.115 inches to the casting seam of the coupler that I believe to be its center.
Thus, since I model standard gauge at 1/29 scale, 1.115 x 29 = 32.335 inches if prototype 1/1. or about 5% lower than the real world 1/1 value. But then it's obvious from looking at the NMRA table for the different gauges that this is intentional.

-Ted


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Notice that 7/8thsN2 (1:13.7 scale), where 45mm track represents 2 feet, is missing from the NMRA Table of Coupler Standards. 

For those of you who are modeling in 7/8ths scale, the distance from the top of the rail to the coupler centerline is 1.16 inches, representing the actual 16" or 17" used by the Maine 2-foot railroads. This distance is also used for the centerline of a link and pin coupler pocket.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By jbwilcox on 06/10/2009 10:36 PM
That is part of the problem, When do you decide to use a washer between the truck and the car bottom and when do you use a shim?


John


Valid question, John. If you were a "rivet counter" (which you said you're not), you would first get the car body to be the correct height from the rails by using a washer between the truck and the body bolster (to raise), or modifying one or the other to lower. 
Then you would adjust the coupler as necessary to get it to the right height above the rails. All this would be based on specification drawings of the real (prototype) car.

For those not concerned with that level of detail, or if it doesn't apply because there _is _no prototype, it mostly comes down to what looks good to you, with some limitations of what works. Does the height of the car body look OK to you? Would it look funny if you had to raise or lower it enough to get the coupler height set? Actual cars came in a range of body heights over the years, but the body sill height is fairly uniform to match with loading platforms. Changing it too much on a model may look wrong to some but perfectly fine to you. The practical limitation is that you don't want to set the body on a big stack of washers on the truck because it won't be as stable, making it wobble more due to irregularities in your track. Using an offset coupler would be a better solution.


Hope this helps,
Jim


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Quote "Whats the best way of uncoupling KD couplers manually?" unquote

Hi John, flat bladed long shaft screwdriver or thin piece of wood, slip between the jaws of the two couplers and give a slight twist, jaws will come open and you can move the train. 

Next time you are down here I can go through some installs with you if you want. 


Nick


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

For those interested:


The US government document, Code of the Federal Register, CFR 49 part 232, includes the following stated requirements for prototype 1/1 railroad freight car coupler heights for various track gauges:


"...232.2 Drawbars; standard height.
Except on cars specified in the proviso in section 6 of the Safety Appliance Act of March 2, 1893 (sec. 6, 27 Stat. 532, 45 U.S.C. 6) as the same was amended April 1, 1896 (29 Stat. 85; 45 heretofore designated in compliance with law is hereby modified and changed in the manner hereinafter prescribed,to wit: 

The *maximum* *height* [/b]of drawbars for freight cars measured perpendicularly from the level of the tops of rails to the centers of drawbars for standard-gauge railroads[/b] in the United States subject to said act shall be 34 1/2 inches[/b], *and the minimum height* of drawbars for freight cars on such standard-gauge railroads measured in the same manner shall be 31 1/2 inches[/b],



and on narrow-gauge railroads[/b] in the United States subject to said act the *maximum height* of drawbars for freight cars measured from the level of the tops of rails to the centers of drawbars *shall be 26 inches*, *and the minimum height* of drawbars for freight cars on such narrow-gauge railroads measured in the same manner *shall be 23 inches*,



and *on 2-foot-gauge railroads* in the United States subject to said act the *maximum height* of drawbars for freight cars measured from the level of the tops of rails to the centers of drawbars shall be 17 1/2 inches[/b], and the *minimum height* of drawbars for freight cars on such 2-foot-gauge railroads measured in the same manner shall be 14 1/2 inches[/b]."

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=232&SECTION=2&YEAR=1998&TYPE=PDF

-Ted


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## Dick Friedman (Aug 19, 2008)

Just one more thing about coupler height. If you're EVER planning to replace plastic wheels with metal ones, do it BEFORE you mount the couplers. Wheels are different sizes (of course they are), so the height of the car body will be different for different size wheels. 

I use the Kadee gauge, using No. 1 guage couplers. No matter what the scale of the car, the couplers are at the same height. That makes the couplers VERY reliable. If you're near Sacramento, I'll come and help you fix your track and couplers. 

Will consult for food!


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