# Garage Heater Recommendations?



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Bought a house with an extra garage space to work on train stuff. I'm looking for recommendations on how to heat it. it's detached from the house so running a gas line is an option, but probably an expensive one, so I'm leaning towards propane or electric.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The new gas line is plastic and easy to deal with. You will save a lot of money using natural gas over propane or electricity. 

If long term cost is not a concern, clearly get electric, no chance of carbon monoxide or an open flame. 

Greg


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I like my 220v electric I had an electrician install. Is up near the ceiling and you can pivot it to point where you want. Need to be well insulated though.


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, I didn't know there was plastic gas line, maybe that would help with the installation cost. 

Jerry, what unit are you using? There is a 220v outlet in the garage


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I think before you try and decide how to heat it you need to think about the space. How big is it and is it insulated and how well? I'm with Greg, gas heat is cheaper, at least here, and quicker. I don't know Colorado but it does get cold there in the winter, right?


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, yes it does get cold periodically here. For example it's been upper 50s most of this week, but we did get below zero twice this winter for a day or two. I will check on what it would cost to run a gas line from the house to the detached garage. 

I was reading that propane and kerosene can put a bunch of moisture in the air, but it's dry here most of the time, so I don't think I need to worry about anything rusting. 

Anyone use a stove with pellets?


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, the plastic gas line is actually better than metal, flexible, does not corrode. You could trench and put in place yourself and have the city/county sign off on it. The labor making the trench will be the hardest part. 

Greg


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

My electric heater is hard wired into the wiring. I do have a plug in 220v heater in my wood shop, takes a long time for it to heat up though.


----------



## Naptowneng (Jun 14, 2010)

Hi-

I heat my 14 x 14 shop with shabby insulation using a vent free propane floor/wall heater
I run a copper line from a 20# tank from outside into the building. Use flare fittings, and always check for leaks properly before use and if you move the heater.
This is an example of one, there are many on the market

http://www.tractorsupply.com/redsto...tu-1016170

I use an IR one not an open flame one, no real reason, just this was on sale at end of heating season

Mine has 5 heat settings, and an internal fan

Keep alert to what type of regulator you need for proper installation, and do just what the instructions say in this regard. 

Even in the 20s this will heat my space give a few minutes to work

Obviously, the size, insulation, and weather stripping, air movement, etc will significantly influence how well it works

I also have a portable Kerosene one for my larger unheated space for short work periods in that bigger room.

Same situation, natural gas in house but not in garage, estimate I got a few years ago was not cost effective vs the propane one for occasional use. If I spent several hours a day in shop, that could change of course.

Good luck

Jerry


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry, just curious, at how many hours a day (or month) did it become cost effective? 

I live in a tract where many people have propane patio heaters... you can empty a 5 gallon tank in an evening... but mine is on natural gas and I've left one on 24 hours and my gas bill did not have a $60 increase. That stuff is expensive here. 

Many people have their outdoor barbecues plumbed to natural gas also. 

(I do understand the much lower installation cost of not running a gas line, etc.) 

Greg


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I have showed this before, the little wall heater ,220 does all the train shop. keeps it toasty right where i work and above freezing everywhere else. Plus my insurance company likes it.
I two more in the other shop ,one on each bay.
cost to run, Priceless??


----------



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I added HVAC to an attached garage simply by adding ductwork, and insulating the door with some hard pink foam from Home Depot. Easy, little cost, and negligable energy cost. Not detached, though, and it didn't really get to the same comfort as the house - fine for my need at the time, though. 

My parent's house had a gas furnace and steam radiators, with piping to the detached garage, originally intended for a small apartment above the garage. 

I would look into running an insulated duct from my house under the lawn and just accept the wasted energy for not having to buy a system, or having to wait for a cold space to heat up. I'd want to run natural gas, and the duct is something I could tap into the existing HVAC duct.


----------



## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

I use a ventless gas heater in my garage. it works really well.


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim,

When I had planned to build a detached shop, I researched the options. Needing it maintained in my previous shed, through the winter meant 50 deg as a min temp as anything lower when you brought the temp up all the machinery would sweat along with the walls. I was fully sealed and insulated. Tis being 3x the sixe of a 10x10 shed meand more heat and electric was not an option anymore. I have a 220 forced fan heater. I opted for building my shop in the garage tying into the HVAC and keeping the 220 heater as a aux. On the outbuilding my options were a 100 gallon propane tank or running a gas line as I was going to install a split ductless system. The natural gas line due to the length of the run needed to be 2" plus the permits and it required a variance. Why I don't know. Anyway it was cheaper in th elong run to use the garage for me. Id look into the gas run, mine was 140' Propane was the next option and electric was the last.


----------



## dieseldude (Apr 21, 2009)

I use a Kerosene heater in the shop. It works great, but takes a bit of time to warm things up. So, if I'm painting that day, I have to plan some 'lead time' for heat. I'm in Buffalo and it gets cold here in the winter. When I'm done working, I shut off the heat and leave the door between the garage and attached shop open for ventilation. If I don't, the walls and tools sweat (and rust)- bad things, man! It was still the easiest and most cost effective way to heat my shop. Your mileage may vary. 


-Kevin.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Other considerations.....What kind/size of heater you need really depends on how comfortable you want to be...and how much insulation is in the garage. I like my shop at 70ish...and don't like it at 60ish or below. 

First step should be to get it insulated...R38 or more if possible. That's 6" of blown-in insulation or more in the ceiling. 2x4s walls let you blow-in only to R19. Then there's the garage doors...mine are insulated and side sealed. That keeps drafts out and the door was a huge improvement to comfort. I just had 1000 sq ft of attic insulation blown-in for $600...so it's not that expensive.

Heater kind and size is the next issue. If you go gas (which is the cheapest kind of heating here), be aware that you should NOT be doing any spray painting in the garage if the heater unit is inside the building...which is normal. Electric heat is easy to install...but you don't get much heat produced if you use 1500 w units that plug in. You have to go to the 220v units...and dedicated 30 to 50 amp wiring (read as new usually)...too get higher outputs.


----------



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Jason,


I sale, service and install commercial/industrial boilers for a living, that said gas piping systems are common phenomena for me. I suspect an error was made when you originally were advised on the pipe size requirement for your shop.


FWIW: The 2” pipe size you suggested will carry 936 CFH of natural gas or provide 936,000 Btu input @ 150’ overall length... Most home HVAC heating systems are in the 100,000 Btu input range or less typically. I’d run a 1” pipe system. 1” will carry 158 CFH @ 150 ‘. Natural gas typically provides 1000 Btu per cubic foot; 158 x 1000 = delivers 158,000 Btu input.


I to have an issue with moisture in my shop adversely affecting my machinery, the answer for me was/is a dehumidifier. I picked up a portable unit at Home Depot it works well for my needs.
Michael


----------



## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Michael Glavin on 05 Feb 2013 08:51 PM 


Jason,


I sale, service and install commercial/industrial boilers for a living, that said gas piping systems are common phenomena for me. I suspect an error was made when you originally were advised on the pipe size requirement for your shop.


FWIW: The 2” pipe size you suggested will carry 936 CFH of natural gas or provide 936,000 Btu input @ 150’ overall length... Most home HVAC heating systems are in the 100,000 Btu input range or less typically. I’d run a 1” pipe system. 1” will carry 158 CFH @ 150 ‘. Natural gas typically provides 1000 Btu per cubic foot; 158 x 1000 = delivers 158,000 Btu input.


I to have an issue with moisture in my shop adversely affecting my machinery, the answer for me was/is a dehumidifier. I picked up a portable unit at Home Depot it works well for my needs.
Michael 

Well that's good to know for the future. I decided against the 350sqft outbuilding and built a smaller 100sf one plus am using a 1 car garage that attached. I still have to build the office off the back of the garage which is another 12x 12 but that will tie into the HVAC also. The HVAC is new and was oversize for the house so I can tie in the addition and the garage.


----------



## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Two years ago I had a new furnace put in the house and wanted the installer to put a vent into the garage. He said it was not allowed because of the possibility of fumes coming back through the pipe and into the house. This of course only applies to a forced air system.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, pretty funny about a 2" pipe... whoever told you that, don't go to him for advice unless he's off the bottle ha ha! 

I do have a friend that has a 2" gas pipe into his house.... but the house is 11,000 square feet and the phone system in the house has TWO digit extensions because there are more than 10 rooms with phones.. and there is a room that is basically a big safe that you can drive a volkswagen into... and if you jump off the railing in the kitchen nook, you land in the indoor pool... (kitchen on second floor) 

Yeah, I think 3/4 or 1" was the OD of my bright yellow gas line... runs to 3 patio heaters, a gas fireplace and a barbecue grill.... 

Greg


----------



## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Dan,


The Installer was/is right according to the Uniform Mechanical Code… Any duct that is connected to an area that can and will allow contaminated air migration to an OCCUPPIED space is NOT allowed, “forced air system” or not. Imagine warming up the car in the garage and the exhaust fumes finding their way into the home when the air system is not running (same could be said for paint fumes).


Another consideration is a central air system recirculates air from within the conditioned space; the design goal of these systems is to create an air change be it heating or cooling. If you supply air to a given space you’re pressurizing said space, the return system will draw air in from wherever it’s available, assumably from the area of least resistance. That said this can and will allow air to be pulled from the garage and or shop area. There is an air balance consideration; in a perfect world the system will output or match the intake air volume, in the real world various conundrums exist which restrict the air flow; such as return air filters and partially blocked evaporative coils and ill matched duct systems for the air handler in play…


If it were me I’d provide a back-draft damper in/on the supply duct to the shop/garage and make sure air could not be pulled into the conditioned living area from the garage/shop. This could be as simple as weather-stripping and such installed on a passage door to the aforementioned area.


Additionally you’ll need to allow for the air to escape and or circulate in the garage/shop area, an air tight insulated shop will allow the air system to pressurize the area only! (unless it can draw air from said area) Imagine blowing air into a bottle… So cracking a window, a loosely sealed shop or similar would allow the air to move and provide some comfort.


FWIW: A properly designed HVAC duct system is QUIET, and operates at a static pressure of .08” water column. More often than not duct systems are sub-standard with regard to sizing and are poorly sealed too. In the last 10 years or so numerous new requirements came to be in the UMC and are enforced by the local Building Inspectors which require the Installers to seal all duct connections with approved products to mitigate losses. This was/is more a GREEN thing than a need, but it’s a good idea IMO.


Michael


----------

