# What is wrong in this picture?



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

There is something fundamentally wrong in this picture. Who can spot it?



Regards


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

That's a San Francisco Cable Car behind the Shay. Apart from the fact that they are cable powered, I don't think they have couplers!


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Not that easy, keep guessing







.There is a prototype for a Shay pushing a San Francisco cable car up a mountain. So something else is wrong....


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

It is not a great problem, but the Shay should be facing up the grade to keep the crownsheet covered.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Semper,
still not yet solved. This particular railway ran their Shays/Heislers smokebox pointing downward. This was definitely not ignorance/negligence of the master mechanic, as he was well respected and held several patents on RR related stuff. So something else is wrong...


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

The 36" guage Shay is pulling the 42" guage Cable car.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

The tie spacing is incorrect for typical narrow gauge track and you forgot to water the little tree.









Andrew


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## grabnet (Feb 24, 2009)

How about........"No engineer in the Shay?"


Tom


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## Belpaire (Feb 15, 2008)

1:20.3 scale Shay, 1:24 scale cable car.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Garrat gets a bonus point for spotting the dead tree, but steamlogger is close. It is actually the wrong gauge. Both vehicles ran on standard gauge (the cable car was converted) just north of the Golden Gate, while my reenactment is 3' (The photographer wanted the ugly engineer out of the picture, that's why you don't see him







). If nobody comes up with the name of the railway, I'll post the solution.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Mount Tamalpais and Muir Woods Railroad 

YouTube - Mt Tamalpais 1898 & 1917



Andrew


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## steamlogger (Jan 2, 2008)

Mount Tamalpais and Muir Woods Railway 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Tamalpais_and_Muir_Woods_Railway


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Congratulations guys, you solved it! Of course there is a little story behind this. Yesterday we were at Accucraft working on one of Clff's big engines, when I saw a derelict cable car tucked behind some hulks of other locos on the shelf. Cliff gave it to me as part of the compensation and I ripped out the engine, cleaned it up and voila, I have an excursion car for my logging railroad. If anyone ever doubts the strange combination Shay/Cable Car I can point him to the Mt. Tam Railway. Of course, the cable car is 1:24 and my logging railroad is 3' instead of standard gauge, but the combo looks convincing to me. The funny thing is, that a bloody newbie could come up with a combo like this, while the more experienced model railroader would point out that this is utterly wrong. But once you have dug deep enough into railroad history you find out that the newbie was actually right!

In the video clips in the link above you can see the cable car right behind the loco and that the trains are pushed up the hill with the engine pointing the "wrong" way!

Regards


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Interesting journey! 
Did they run any T-boiler Shays though?









Geared Steam.com

Andrew 










No 8 is is a nice looking Shay


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Garratt on 16 Aug 2013 08:50 PM 
Interesting journey! 
Did they run any T-boiler Shays though?









Geared Steam.com

Andrew 




No 8 is is a nice looking Shay

Grrr, now you guys come back at me. My bait was the Shay/cable car combo and the engines running up the hill the wrong way. Your pictures are much better than the ones I was about to publish. Anyway, if someone has a cable car as mantle queen, he can convert it into an excursion car. Having a photo of the real thing would help...
Regards


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## Bruce Sherman (Feb 19, 2008)

Mt. Tamalpais and Muir Woods Railway used Class B shay and a class B Heisler for the Crookedest Railway in the World running backwards w/ cars always on the uphill end.


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

Looks like a good way to use that box of small radius LGB track you have in the basement too! Well done Henner!


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bruce Sherman on 18 Aug 2013 02:15 PM 
Mt. Tamalpais and Muir Woods Railway used Class B shay and a class B Heisler for the Crookedest Railway in the World _running backwards w/ cars always on the uphill end_[/b].
I wouldn't bet on it being always.








Enjoy the action.

Mount Tamalpais R.R. no. 1 (c. 1898)/ Thomas A. Edison, Inc.[/b]

Mount Tamalpais R.R. no. 2 (c. 1898)/ Thomas A. Edison, Inc.[/b]


Mount Taw R.R., no. 3 (c. 1898)/ Thomas A. Edison, Inc.[/b]

Panoramic view of the Golden Gate (c. 1902)/ Thomas A. Edison, Inc.[/b]


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,
where do you see a loco on the uphill side and/or with the smokebox pointing up the hill? I watched the movies again and looked through the pictures of my book (ISBN 0-87046-063-3) and I did not see any evidence of either mode of operation. Sometimes they pulled a string of "gravity" cars, which were then released and coasted back with brakemen controlling the speed. But normal passenger cars were always pushed.

Eric,
Radius 1 comes close. The sharpest radius was 70', which is 3 1/2' in 1:20! Remember, this was standard gauge!
Regards


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 19 Aug 2013 02:34 PM 
Steve,
where do you see a loco on the uphill side and/or with the smokebox pointing up the hill? I watched the movies again and looked through the pictures of my book (ISBN 0-87046-063-3) and I did not see any evidence of either mode of operation. {snip...}[/i]
Henner

Clip #1 - Starts at the Tamalpais Tavern resort at the summit of the Mill Valley and Mount Tamalpais Scenic Railway, and the locomotive is in the lead. Which to me means that it has to be a downhill grade and the locomotive is in the lead, and since there were no turntables to turn the locomotive around as far as I know. and that fits in with the cars being pushed up the grade by the locomotive's bunker end.

Clip #2 - Sure looks like an up hill grade to me, and the locomotive is running in a forward direction with the flatcar behind the bunker, I admit it doesn't seem to be the actual excursion consist likely an extra for doing the filming.

Clip #3 - In the description states it was taken while ascending the scenic railroad, which means the excursion consist is being pushed up the grade, but leaves open the question as to what the filming consist is doing (???).

Clip #4 - Isn't of the Mt. Tamaplais at all, but of the Ferries and Cliff House Railroad.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,

in the book cited above it says:
... the decision had early been made to push, rather than pull, cars up the side of the mountain. As a result, the locomotive was always on the lower end of the train and there was absolutely no danger of breakaways.....The California Railroad Comission limited trains to three cars, so there would be no danger of shoving a car off the track on sharp curves by having too much weight up front.

Later in an interview with a former fireman:
The engine was facing away from the mountain, with its cars behind it, ready to back uphill shoving the cars.

Regards


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