# New life for C&O 614?



## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Saw an article in the paper regarding the Greenbrier Resort in VA. Apparently the famous hotel is buying the "last US built steam locomotive" and will be using for excursions! 

I did a little research and it sounds like they are purchasing the C&O 614! It would be exciting to see a big steamer running in the eastern part of the US. The locomotive may pull excursions from Greenbrier to Keenland in Lexington, KY. Will be interesting to see what happens. 


Supposedly the train will be ready in 12 to 14 months.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Saw an article in the paper regarding the Greenbrier Resort in VA. Apparently the famous hotel is buying the "last US built steam locomotive" and will be using for excursions! 
Fascinating. Here's a link to the story: 
*[url]http://news.cincinnati.com/...n*[/url] 
The hotel was owned by CSX who tried to get it off the books a couple of years ago. The article references a new casino - sounds like they finally found a use for the underground bunker built for Congress to hide in the 1950s. That's another fascinating story - Congress thought they could evacuate D.C. (by train) and hide in the Greenbriar:
*http://www.greenbrier.com/site/bunker-history.aspx*

Last I heard, C&O 614 was sidelined with some problems after the efficiency tests on NS a few years ago. Their website certainly suggests that:
*http://www.co614.com/index.htm*


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I had to check the date... to be sure it wasn't April 1.... I see just a few little niggling problems waiting in the wings... okay, quite a few....

12-14 months? Ross was not kind to that loco.... flogged might be a good word. She needs a LOT of work. Ross also owed lots of people money with it as collateral, and made quite a few UNfriends in places with enough power to put the kibosh on things at the most critical point. All I'm saying is there is more than one reason 614 has sat so long. Simply throwing money at it won't significantly speed up the kind of work needed...... Also, last I looked CSX was still about as 'steam friendly' as the current bunch running NS. Also, Ross has gained a bad reputation over the last decade or two of promising things that never get delivered -- like the 21st Century Ltd. 

http://server.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29605 

Please note this quote, from Ross himself, today- "Friends, Please allow me to address a number of issues you have raised: 

1. Motive Power- We have purchsed 3, C-39-8 locos on the second hand market ( all runners equipped with cab signals) and will be giving them a top to bottom going over and then a first class repainting into GBX livery as designed by noted rr artist Bob Lorenz. 
The biz. plan calls for the GBX to be all diesel powered for its first season ( 7/2/2012- 1/15/2013 ) and for steam to be added ( subject to approvals from Amtrak, CSX and Buckingham Branch RR, approvals that I am guardedly optimistic we will achieve) in the second season ( 3/17/2013- 1/15/2014). 
When steam is added the GBX will be diesel powered WUS-Gordonsville and steam powered Gordonsville-WSS in both directions. There will be NO repeat NO diesels in the consist when steam powered. 
C&O 614 will be one of 3 steam engines in the steam stable. We will need 3 engines so that we have one on hot standby and one in cycle maintenance in addition to the one in active service. 
We are actively vetting many candidate engines to be 614's 2 stable mates with a goal of finishing that task by 11/1/10." Remember what I said about Ross' promises? 

Like Gates/Microsoft, he has sold something he doesn't actually own (yet). Meanwhile 614 is still at Port Clinton... March 2013 is just a few more than 14 months,.... and CSX may or may not actually be on board, but it doesn't sound like they are (yet)... While you are at it, ask yourself how 1 older man can successfully devote his energies to this project AND the 'Yellow Ribbon Express' project at the same time?....Or was the YRE a lie but this the truth, or ???? .... 

Hope springs eternal, but don't bet the farm (yet)


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

As for Ross' diesels, this is from a CP engineer.

"As someone who has run their fair share of C39-8's over the years, two words can sum them up ... pure junk. Putting those beasts on a "Luxury Train" would be comparable to a casino employing a Ford Trimotor on luxury air service for its high rollers. I hope the cars have a good ventilation system, to filter out all the exhaust smoke these GE's tend to belch out.

To confirm what the previous poster said, there's a reason why the Class 1's purged their rosters of these clunkers, even as traffic levels rose to the point that they needed to lease units to cover the trains.

What's the old saying? You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig? Trust me, those former CR C39-8's (the only ones that had cab signals) are pigs."


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)




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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By Mik on 21 Jun 2010 02:15 PM 
As for Ross' diesels, this is from a CP engineer.

"As someone who has run their fair share of C39-8's over the years, two words can sum them up ... pure junk. Putting those beasts on a "Luxury Train" would be comparable to a casino employing a Ford Trimotor on luxury air service for its high rollers. I hope the cars have a good ventilation system, to filter out all the exhaust smoke these GE's tend to belch out.

To confirm what the previous poster said, there's a reason why the Class 1's purged their rosters of these clunkers, even as traffic levels rose to the point that they needed to lease units to cover the trains.

What's the old saying? You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig? Trust me, those former CR C39-8's (the only ones that had cab signals) are pigs." 

I'll second that! As an NS engineer who has run his fair share of C39-8's over the years, they're definitely PURE JUNK, much like most (if not all) old GE locomotives - they're worn out, belch thick black smoke (and sometimes 6' of flame!), and frankly look and sound like anything in the world other than a luxury train's power. I was a bit surprised when I read that he planned on using them.

NS has several tracks in Roanoke, VA full of these engines, headed for the scrap yard next door. Traffic is picking up, and it is not uncommon to have multiple trains held for lack of power - while these engines are sitting and destined for scrap. I'm sure the only reason Ross purchased them is because they could be had VERY cheaply - literally for scrap value.


And in case anybody wants to argue about old GE locomotives..
Look at the oldest EMD locomotives still in mainline service on a major railroad. You'll find plenty of SD40-2's, and a handful of GP38 variants. GE's comparable offerings: U30C and U23B - how many of those do you see running today? They were sold off or scrapped and replaced by the Dash-7 series which are.. no, wait, those are gone too. Those were replaced with the Dash-8 series, and they're already starting to head for the scrap yards. Even the early Dash-9 engines are starting to feel old and worn out.


Still, on the original subject, I would love to see 614 stretching her legs once again. I won't hold my breath, though (except when those C39's go by).


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Jeff, here's another. 614 doing a runby in the pouring rain after turning at Port Jervis, on the Hoboken specials a few years ago.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Spectacular fall run with the 614 on Moonda


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Wow Charles great Picture. I like that Trestle. KNow where someond could get more pictures of it?


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

614 is "The last *4-8-4* commercially built in the USA" 
not "The last steam locomotive built in the USA".. 

there are quite a few built later than 614.. 
614 was built in June 1948 by Lima. 

Limas last steam locomotive was NKP 779, a Berkshire, built in 1949. 
Baldwins last steam locomotive was C&O H-6 2-6-6-2 #1309, built in July, 1949 
N&W was building their own locomotives until 1953, 
and technically this is the last (to date) US-built steamer: 

http://www.leviathan63.com/ 

Completed in 2009!  

Scot


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally I love the C39-8!  
but from a "railfan perspective" only..I haven never operated one!  

When I win the lottery  and open my own "Southern Tier Railroad Museum" (NY) someday, a Conrail C32-8 paired with a C39-8 will be must-haves.. 
I hope at least one C39-8 gets preserved before its too late.. 
the "humpbacks" represent a unique and short-lived stage of GE locomotive evolution.. 
very "museum worthy" locomotives IMO.. 

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?board=CR;action=display;num=1162998104









Scot


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

This project seems to be about 1/4 baked. Not only does CSX have to sign off on it, I don't see the point of having steam pull it at all. The target audience is the super elite going to the hotel, not a family taking a choo choo train. Why risk having the locomotive break down out on the road and tie up your mainline? Why aren't they pursuing classic diesels, like F or E units? Rebuild the units to be standard with the rest of the current Class 1 fleets except for the skin, SD-40-2 for the E's or GP-38-2's for the F's, etc... It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Hope for the best, plan for the worst, right?! I think based on the previous failed attempts to run these kinds of trips, this one will never get out of the idea phase. 

And sorry Scot, but those 39-8's are UGLY!


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 23 Jun 2010 09:42 AM 

And sorry Scot, but those 39-8's are UGLY! 




I agree!
I never said they were beautiful! 
"ugly" is part of their charm..
"good looks" isnt the sole reason a locomotive is, or should be, preserved..

(I do agree that C39-8's as part of an excursion train is really "out there"..
there are tons of far better choices..but still, you have to admit it would be unique! 

Scot


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By John J on 23 Jun 2010 07:30 AM 
Wow Charles great Picture. I like that Trestle. KNow where someond could get more pictures of it? 
John
You can google rail pictures and find that particular one:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=123104&nseq=33

along with many more interesting photos....


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## Mike O (Jan 2, 2008)

From a friend that works at the Greenbrier: 

The hotel was facing hard times a couple of years ago. it was about to be sold to Marriott when a local mogul stepped in and bought it - a very popular action with the local community. About 10 seconds after that occurred, the West Virginia government passed a law approving casino gambling. A new casino, all under ground, but not in the congressional bunker complex is being built. The marketing plan is to maintain the resort and the casino as a high end destination - not the for the day trippers like other West Virginia venues or Atlantic City. There will be various methods of high end transportation to the resort. 

Having the 614 would be a nice touch. Amtrak regularly attaches private cars to the Cardinal, and private trains could be accommodated. CSX reportedly requires a $500M insurance policy to run trains on their tracks, but that would not be a factor if the train was operated by Amtrak, which is the preferred approach for many of the private trains operating on the class one mains. Could be the Greenbrier train would be used only to pull cars from the CSX main to the resort, or it could be a longer distance train traversing the NE corridor/Cardinal routes. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. The new owner of the Greenbrier has deep enough pockets to implement whatever plan they decide. 

Mike


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Cool shot, Charles!


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## PapaPerk (Nov 7, 2009)

Posted By Mike O on 24 Jun 2010 07:09 AM 
From a friend that works at the Greenbrier: 

The hotel was facing hard times a couple of years ago. it was about to be sold to Marriott when a local mogul stepped in and bought it - a very popular action with the local community. About 10 seconds after that occurred, the West Virginia government passed a law approving casino gambling. A new casino, all under ground, but not in the congressional bunker complex is being built. The marketing plan is to maintain the resort and the casino as a high end destination - not the for the day trippers like other West Virginia venues or Atlantic City. There will be various methods of high end transportation to the resort. 

Having the 614 would be a nice touch. Amtrak regularly attaches private cars to the Cardinal, and private trains could be accommodated. CSX reportedly requires a $500M insurance policy to run trains on their tracks, but that would not be a factor if the train was operated by Amtrak, which is the preferred approach for many of the private trains operating on the class one mains. Could be the Greenbrier train would be used only to pull cars from the CSX main to the resort, or it could be a longer distance train traversing the NE corridor/Cardinal routes. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. The new owner of the Greenbrier has deep enough pockets to implement whatever plan they decide. 

Mike 

Great info!!! Thank you!


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