# Need Advice on Construction



## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

I am starting to build a brass railtruck/sedan delivery, and I plan to make it my first battery/RC project. I had planned to make nearly all of it out of brass, however, now I am wondering if I should make the roof out of wood in order to help my antenna reception.
I am obviously a complete novice at this, so any advice you might have will be appreciated. 


Thanks, 

Matt


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## Dr G (Jan 16, 2008)

Matt, 

I believe you are correct, I remember reading somewhere in the R/C battery forum that there is a problem with the R/C systems in brass engines--your project would then have the same problem. Not sure if a wood roof would be adequate. You will need someone with more expertise in that area than I. 

Looks like a great start on an interesting project. Just out of curiosity--how do you cut the brass sheet so accurately--I find brass "curls" or "warps" when I cut it with heavy sheers or tin snips. 

Regards 

The other Matt


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Not the best environment for radio signals. You will likely need to route the antenna of whatever system you use outside of the brass cab. The wood roof may help a bit. Those with goose experience will likely know the answers here.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, it sounds like you two pretty much agree that, at minimum, I need to use wood for the roof. Bummer. Now I have to figure out how to attach wood to brass with a strong enough bond to warp it.









Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Matt, Thanks for the comments. I cut the brass with a band saw, file and nibbler:

















Take care,
The other Matt


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Have you thought about using simple battery power for this? 
I use these - http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=383 with 11.1v Li-ion packs in my cirtters and they work great (and they're only $11 each assembled). 

-Brian


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 02/10/2009 1:11 AM
Have you thought about using simple battery power for this? 
I use these - http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=383 with 11.1v Li-ion packs in my cirtters and they work great (and they're only $11 each assembled). 

-Brian

Hey Brian,
Yes, I have thought about it. Maybe that would be more realistic. It doesn't sound like I should expect much reception, even if I do use wood for the roof.
I'd rather go R/C, but I'll definitely think more about straight power. Thanks for the link. 
Hope to see you in York next month!

Matt


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## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

here are a few links that may be some help! 

http://archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35516 

http://www.largescalecentral.com/LSCForums/viewtopic.php?id=10445


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Beautiful! 

Maybe you want an external antenna like the bcubed. Um... 

http://www.ecubedrc.com 

http://www.microantenna.com 

I have it on the back of a tender. This is the 27MHz antenna. If you use a higher frequency, like 75MHz, 900MHz or 2.4GHz, the antenna is much smaller.


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## itsmcgee (Jan 4, 2008)

I just finished one using one of Del's critter controls and so far it works great. If the snow ever melts I will give it a good run. His controlers work great.


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 02/10/2009 1:11 AM
Have you thought about using simple battery power for this? 
I use these - http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=383 with 11.1v Li-ion packs in my cirtters and they work great (and they're only $11 each assembled). 

-Brian



You certainly can't beat these things for the price. It has the same functionality as my "Simple Critter Control", except that mine works over 7-20V power range, will handle 5 amps, and it is much smaller and easier to mount & hide. In other words, it was specifically designed for use in large scale locos.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for all the info, gents! It gives me some options to think about. I'm considering building a luggage rack on the roof out of non-metallic tubing, then sliding the antenna wire into it. Think that would work? Anyone have any ideas on stanchions? I might try looking at modifying queen posts...hmmm.



Del, are your Critter Controls made anywhere but communist China? I'm pretty sure the others would be.

Thanks again, 
Matt


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Matt Vogt on 02/10/2009 3:58 AM
Hope to see you in York next month!

Matt 




I'll be there. Might we be seeing the new rail truck in the model contest?








-Brian


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Matt Vogt on 02/10/2009 10:20 AM



Del, are your Critter Controls made anywhere but communist China? I'm pretty sure the others would be.









Made in the good ol' USA by yours truly!


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 02/10/2009 10:52 AM
Posted By Matt Vogt on 02/10/2009 3:58 AM
Hope to see you in York next month!

Matt 




I'll be there. Might we be seeing the new rail truck in the model contest?








-Brian 



I don't know about that...time is getting away from me way too fast!







Besides, this is only my second scratch built anything, and the first time I've ever worked with bras, so don't expect much.








Regardless, I will bring it with me, in case you want to see it.

Take care,

Matt


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Del Tapparo on 02/10/2009 11:02 AM
Posted By Matt Vogt on 02/10/2009 10:20 AM



Del, are your Critter Controls made anywhere but communist China? I'm pretty sure the others would be.










Made in the good ol' USA by yours truly!

Fantastic! You have a sale if I decide to go that way.








I'll probably get one soon anyway for something in the future


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Matt Vogt on 02/10/2009 10:20 AM

SNIP 
Del, are your Critter Controls made anywhere but communist China? I'm pretty sure the others would be.

Thanks again, 
Matt









RCS and EVO are "others" that are not made in Communist China.

They are made in Australia by yours truly.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By TonyWalsham on 02/10/2009 6:45 PM
Posted By Matt Vogt on 02/10/2009 10:20 AM

SNIP 
Del, are your Critter Controls made anywhere but communist China? I'm pretty sure the others would be.

Thanks again, 
Matt









RCS and EVO are "others" that are not made in Communist China.

They are made in Australia by yours truly.


Sorry, Tony. I didn't mean 'others' in general. I meant the ones that we referred to earlier in the postings, which was an assumption I probably should not have made anyway. I have great respect for you not outsourcing your work.


Take care,
Matt


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Matt, 

FYI - the Bakatronics kits are from Thailand (currently a monarchy though the country is run by the prime minister installed by military coup in 2006). 

-Brian


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By altterrain on 02/10/2009 10:24 PM
Matt, 

FYI - the Bakatronics kits are from Thailand (currently a monarchy though the country is run by the prime minister installed by military coup in 2006). 

-Brian

Thanks, Brian. Like I said, I should not have assumed. The old expression rings true about assuming...


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

I have an additional comment about antennas. I have installed several AirWire receivers in brass engines. In each case, I extended the antenna wire and passed it through a hole in the chassis. The length left exposed was about 3 inches. It works fairly well. The range is not nearly as good as I get in plastic bodies but at lease it does work without a visible external antenna.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Bill. That's good to know. I think that's pretty much the way I'm going to end up going.

Take care, 

Matt


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Perhaps a semi whimsical Coachman's Whip could be your antenna. The driver's personal touch of nostalgia. 

John


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 02/26/2009 8:40 PM
Perhaps a semi whimsical Coachman's Whip could be your antenna. The driver's personal touch of nostalgia. 

John

Strange minds think alike, John. I actually thought about that, but figured people would think I was nuts.

Take care,
Matt


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## Bram (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi Guys,

This is my first post so be gentle with me.

I am based in the UK by the way.

I am into RC and when I add kit to a loco (plastic bodied) I solder the Antena to a piece of brass sheet and stick it somewhere suitable.

Now if you hove a brass model, I would hve thought that as long as the body of the railcar was insulated from the chassis yor could solder the antena to the roof, or am I being a bit thick?

regards
Bram


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I think on a brass loco, you'd want to get the antenna outside the loco. 

Some have connected the antenna to a pickup wheel to get a signal from the track with good effect.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Radio frequencies need "help" to radiate. This is normally by connecting them to a metal rod that is a multiple (or sub multiple) of the actual wavelength. 

This is why higher frequencies (which have shorter wavelengths) have shorter antennas. 

At certain frequencies, getting a wire long enough is problematic. There are many nuances to this basic rule, but just connecting to a metal shell is not well matched to what you want to do, for receiving or transmitting. 

Regards, Greg


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Bram on 02/27/2009 5:49 AM
Hi Guys,

This is my first post so be gentle with me.

I am based in the UK by the way.

I am into RC and when I add kit to a loco (plastic bodied) I solder the Antena to a piece of brass sheet and stick it somewhere suitable.

Now if you hove a brass model, I would hve thought that as long as the body of the railcar was insulated from the chassis yor could solder the antena to the roof, or am I being a bit thick?

regards
Bram






Bram, Welcome to MLS! I am glad you posted. This is a great group of helpful people here. I'm sure you'll enjoy it as much as I have.
Unfortunately, the body is one with the chassis, electrically. 



Take care,
Matt


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 02/10/2009 6:33 AM
Beautiful! 

Maybe you want an external antenna like the bcubed. Um... 

http://www.ecubedrc.com 

http://www.microantenna.com 

I have it on the back of a tender. This is the 27MHz antenna. If you use a higher frequency, like 75MHz, 900MHz or 2.4GHz, the antenna is much smaller. 




Hey Tom,
Do you know if one of these would work for 900MHz? I don't see one listed...

Thanks,
Matt


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, Greg. I kinda knew this, but not the details. I'm sure I could find out through Google or the like.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

At 900 mhz, an antenna is really short. Let's see... 

186000 / 900,000,000 * 5280 = 1.09 ft for a full wave, 3 inches for a 1/4 wave.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thus the 900 MHz "stubby" you see, and the 1/2 wave that comes standard on the NCE throttles. There's more to antennas though, 1/2 waves do not need a ground plane, 1/4 ones do, so a 1/4 wave long piece of wire should be mounted over a perpendicular metal ground plane. 

When you get to "stubbies" they do all kinds of tricks though, like winding a thin strip of plastic with metal on it into a coil to get more length, etc. 

Regards, Greg


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

The 2.4ghz channel should work fine in a brass loco, such as the spektrum dx6. I use this in my wada gp9 which works great (all brass shell with metal frame and trucks, not to mention a nitro motor and generator probably spitting out some fun RF..). 
-Ray


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks, gents. 
I talked with Jonathan Bliese (RCTrains), who said basically the same thing. I am going to try to mount the receiver on the inside of the roof, and see how that works. If I'm not happy with the range, I'll put it through the roof into some sort of luggage rack or something. 

Matt


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