# Steam Oil



## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

I just cracked open bottles of Aristo steam oil and St Aubins Steam oil, they seem much different that what I am used to seeing. I have used Brandbright, Regner and Green Velvet. Aubins and Aristo's are clear and when I ran my Mogul it seemed to run just fine, but occationally it gave large plumes of blue smoke from the smoke box, which is the sign of oil burning. I am interested in others views of these oils compared to the others mentioned.


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## artgibson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Nick Jr on 19 Mar 2012 11:35 AM 
I just cracked open bottles of Aristo steam oil and St Aubins Steam oil, they seem much different that what I am used to seeing. I have used Brandbright, Regner and Green Velvet. Aubins and Aristo's are clear and when I ran my Mogul it seemed to run just fine, but occationally it gave large plumes of blue smoke from the smoke box, which is the sign of oil burning. I am interested in others views of these oils compared to the others mentioned. 


Its almost like when you go to doctor. You tell the doctor that when you do a certain thing that it hurts and he tells you then donot do it again.
Go back to the oils that have not given you problems. You are going to hear all kinds of suggestions about oil.
If you want to change. Get Roundhouse oil from NGT Models.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh boy, another steam oil thread! 

Be sure to ask about rain water vs deionized and distilled.... 

Just could not help it Nick... you mean this has not been covered in the endless steam oil threads? 

Greg


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

There is a train of thought, espoused by some, that you don't even need steam oil in our size locomotives.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

It seems to me that our displacement lubricators belch out most of the oil in the first turn or two.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 19 Mar 2012 01:22 PM 
It seems to me that our displacement lubricators belch out most of the oil in the first turn or two. 
Deadleg displacement lubricators do not seem to display that design flaw.

BTW- no lube in locomotive...introduced to that theory. Maybe pass mustard with a low pressure saturated steam setup but in high pressure vessels and superheated steam go luck with your investment. I'd go with the "real McCoy" in keep with the few dollars it cost to maintain and prevent wear of critical parts during operation.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

It is interesting how each oil is different in some obvious way, and it does lead to serious questions about whether one brand/type is better. Or, more in line with the concerns of the CEO of the RR, whether one is "bad" for the equipment or does not provide adequate protection to the moving parts.

In reality, what you want is adequate lubrication... PERIOD, end of description! Of course, now comes the question of defining "Adequate" and how do you know when you have reached that definition.

If you are seeing blue smoke then maybe one oil just happens to burn blue and the other does not.

Or, maybe there is too much oil because it is very slightly thinner than the other and thus more of it is getting picked up in the system because the metering openings are too large for THAT particular viscosity, or maybe the other oil is TOO thick for enough to be picked up and that lack of blue smoke is an indication of too little oil in the system.

When you try different oils do you also alter the metering system to dispense the oil in an "adaquate" amount? 

Even if two people have the same model of loco, one might have a metering system (hole in the pipe in the Roscoe Lubricator) that lets a particular viscosity oil through in copious amounts and the other needs a lower viscosity oil to get an adequate amount. Maybe on one loco the thickness of the o-ring around the cap is slightly thicker and that keeps the bottom of the cap farther from the pickup hole in the pipe and that lets more oil through... Maybe one person tightens the cap more than someone else and that shortens the distance from the bottom of the cap to the pickup hole and less oil gets through.

An awful lot of very minor differences can add up to too much or too little oil and so some people swear by one brand and others will swear AT that same brand.

The answer is to specifically use Steam Cylinder Oil (not sewing machine oil or chainsaw oil or walrus snot). The problem is that many people use such a small quantity of oil that the first purchase is enough to last so long that to try some other brand/viscosity seems such a waste of meger finances to go buy yet another bottle... we all want to know precisely which oil to buy and in reality there is no pat answer for all situations.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually, I used to agree on what you said: 

"In reality, what you want is adequate lubrication... PERIOD, end of description!" 

But recently, the thread about high temperature capable oils, and having less buildup of crud, because the water and oil is mixed (usually) at a higher temperature in modern models, was very enlightening. 

A good case for oils that do not "burn" as easily was made, in my opinion. 

Gerg


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

I am going to throw my two cents in here, so here it goes. Every steam oil I have ever seen has the color of Molasses and about the same viscosity as molasses when cold. The puff of blue smoke is an indication that the oil is flashing, probably in the super heater pipe. I am going to second the other peoples advice and that is go back to something that you know will work.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 19 Mar 2012 02:44 PM 
Actually, I used to agree on what you said: 

"In reality, what you want is adequate lubrication... PERIOD, end of description!" 

But recently, the thread about high temperature capable oils, and having less buildup of crud, because the water and oil is mixed (usually) at a higher temperature in modern models, was very enlightening. 

A good case for oils that do not "burn" as easily was made, in my opinion. 

Gerg 

Hee hee hee... You just added to the definition of "adequate"! If it is burning before it gets to the cylinders then it is probably not providing "adequate" lubrication.

Hopefully, by this time in the life cycle of manufacturing Live Steam Locos in this small scale, the manufacturers have enough wherewithall to know that if their engine has a superheater it needs a higher temp Steam Cylinder Oil and will recommend (supply a sample of!) the proper type and will specify that type in the documentation. And when the newbie asks here, we can queery the engine model and then recommend a type that will provide adequate lubrication.

The design of toy locomotives has advanced, from the simple boiler to cylinder steam flow (sans throttle, oiler or superheater) to similar to the prototype practice of having a throttle and a lubricator and then adding a superheater (though sometimes not recognizing that is what the pipe to the cylinders became!). Each of these items may have been added to the steam flow without consideration for what happens when you do and the repercussions of doing so.

The same thing happened to the 1:1 world. The first superheaters were installed AFTER the throttle (which was in the steam dome), which means that when the throttle was closed the superheater pipes were exposed to extreme heat without the heat sinking aspect of H2O in the pipes and the superheater pipes deteriorated very quickly. It was soon learned to put the throttle after the superheater (known as a 
"Front end throttle") so the pipes are always filled with steam and that helps keep the pipes from melting! I think the same thing needs to be done in our model world!

There is some ecconomic advantage to the present sequence of components (Boiler -> Throttle -> Oiler -> Superheater -> Cylinders) but the disadvantages are now recognized and some manufacturers are altering the design to put the Oiler after the Superheater (Boiler -> Throttle -> Superheater -> Oiler -> Cylinders) to eliminte the problem of the oil burning in the Superheater. I think it may one day be recognized that the throttle needs to be moved to be after the Superheater and before the Oiler (Boiler -> Superheater -> Throttle -> Oiler -> Cylinders) . 

Whether it can be done ecconomically in small scale or not remains to be seen...

As well as what kinds of new problems that might create that are at present unimagineable.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

We're going to let you slide Semp with your on the fly updating of adequate ha ha! (good one)... yes I can sort of agree that if you see it burning not as much is available to lubricate. 

Interesting stuff about superheaters helping drive your decision on oil. 

Greg


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## roadranger (Jan 6, 2008)

Hmmm... so you mean using Accucraft oil in my Accucraft engine (vs. Roundhouse, Green velvet, etc) is not the best choice?


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 19 Mar 2012 01:55 PM 
Posted By xo18thfa on 19 Mar 2012 01:22 PM 
It seems to me that our displacement lubricators belch out most of the oil in the first turn or two. 
Deadleg displacement lubricators do not seem to display that design flaw.

BTW- no lube in locomotive...introduced to that theory. Maybe pass mustard with a low pressure saturated steam setup but in high pressure vessels and superheated steam go luck with your investment. I'd go with the "real McCoy" in keep with the few dollars it cost to maintain and prevent wear of critical parts during operation.


Come to think of it, you are right. Dead legs don't. My latest oscillator does not have a lubricator. But the port face and cylinder still get a drop before heading out. I've been told that D valves get wiped out quickly on 7.5" gauge sized machines of the lubricator goes out. Don't think I would run a nice Ga 1 loco without oil either.


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## Nick Jr (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you to those that contributed useful information. nick jr


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## Phippsburg Eric (Jan 10, 2008)

I ran yesterday morning with some Aristocraft oil and is was quite smokey where the Roundhouse was not. I have an upcoming indoor steamup at the Owls Head Transportation museum and will use Roundhouse for that so I dont set off the smoke alarm. the smoke looks good outside though!


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

Gee,

Maybe _*we*_ should have shut off the *smoke alarm*...


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## GaugeOneLines (Feb 23, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 19 Mar 2012 01:55 PM 


Maybe pass mustard with a low pressure saturated steam setup


Now that sounds rather yucky Charles ;-)) I think the term you are searching for is an old military term when troops are mustered for inspection and hopefully enough spit and polish helps everyone to "pass muster". And you in the teaching business too......!! ;-))

David M-K


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## Andre Anderson (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By roadranger on 19 Mar 2012 04:54 PM 
Hmmm... so you mean using Accucraft oil in my Accucraft engine (vs. Roundhouse, Green velvet, etc) is not the best choice? 
No that is the one that I use and it pours like Molasses in January.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

DMK- that is a good one I must of been eating lunch at the time....


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