# How do you maximize fun while minimizing damage at open houses?



## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

There seems to be a difficult choice to make when hosting visitors at an open house.

On the one hand you want everyone to have a great time but on the other hand if they are at your house and are running your trains any damage done willl be 100% your problem and that could get very expensive or even if not expensive, breakages can take you a lot of time and effort in obtaining and replacing broken parts (if even available).

One solution can be to restrict visitors to the less expensive and perhaps more durable starter set trains but that could be a turn off on the hobby for someone who sees and would prefer to run your more realistic larger locomotives.

Another solution would be to restrict train operations to lower speeds (as we do when we run our own trains anyway) but how do you accomplish that without turning into a "traffic cop" and hurting the feelings of the very people you want to have fun?

Yesterday I saw 5 accidents resulting from:

1. not paying attention to the train they had been given to run (talking to someone and looking away while their train ran into another)
2. running their train too fast
3. running a train when they did not know (or acknowledge that they did not know) how to handle the remote they were given
4. walking away from the layout while their train was still running

I think the problem is exaggerated by lack of knowledge of large scale trains in that:

1. HO trains are relatively inexpensive so damages are perhaps negligable
2. O Gauge trains are much smalller and usually metal so derailents and even collisions seldom damage anything
3. people unfamiliar with the hobby have no idea of how expensive the train they are running may have cost and how easily it can be broken

The challenge is to assure that visitors feel welcome but at the same time to protect your layout from accidental damage.

How do you handle visitors at your club - especiallly when you may have a small club with more visitors than club members to monitor the visitors? Sometimes you may have a club member who just likes to run trains FAST - even when they are not his trains he is running. 

Thanks,

Jerry


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## Marauderer (Jan 5, 2008)

Resign from the club and be very very selective on who you allow over to run your trains. Clubs can be great but they do tend to get political with certain folks feeling that they are more important and should have more privilege that another member. I am a mamber of two clubs in my area and have experienced all the above. I am thinking of dropping at least one of the memberships and possibly the other because of what you mentioned and other problems i don't want to address in this open forum.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Have them bring their own trains. In order for me to have fun at my steam up I simply have to have an additude change and not worry. 
These are toys and if I want friends to play, then there may be a price I pay. Over the years so very little has happened that now I just crowd control. 
I have the most problem (I would say) is from those who have been here many times and they loose their since of (becareful) as they walk around, in over stuff. 
I have noticed that those who can't hear very well do not responced fast when there is a problem or they can't hear when someone else yells out that they are derailed or something. 
Even now I wonder how many new rocks will be broke loose when big guys step on them and they say, "well that was not cemented in very well." 
Don't walk on rocks used for edging. 

In the battery world you usually CAN'T run them too fast.
PS I was typing while Barry was posting.

I belong to five clubs and plan to stay a memeber no matter what ,because I want to maintan a relationship with the many other great memebers and keep the networking going in the hobby. You have problems in every aspect of life , thus I deal with my additude to handle it and set the boundies at my RR. Even this web site , how many folks have quit because of what ever reason. yet many of "us" go on being good friends and helping new folks.
Its all in your additude, and I'm not speaking at Barry. This is a good topic with real issues.


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## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

Hi Jerry, 
I live on the east coast, and at all the open houses we go to, are for viewing only. We have never been to one where the public is invited to run the trains. Even at the local train shows, the club members are running the trains for folks to view and watch. I agree that allowing the public to run your trains could get very expensive, very quick. 
When the local club does a set up, each of the members working at that event run their own trains, not someone elses unless invited to do so. 
At the Pennsylvania RR museum, they have a large scale display that is designed to be "hands on" for kids to do switching and hauling frieght operations. This is of course only operating when there is a volunteer or two on hand to monitor the operations. The throttles are regulated to only allow so much speed out of each engine, but even so, there is a staff person right there at all times. 

Just wanted to share how things were done over here in the mid-atlantic 

Good luck 
Paul


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I've never hosted an open house but out layout is on a path that leads to a park and to the local hardware store/grocery store/drugstore etc. People are walking by all day long and stopping by constantly when we run trains.

Most parents are very good about controlling their kids, but some are astonishing--they let the little brats do all sorts of stuff. I usually layout what we ask of visitors, which is pretty simple, and then ask the parents to stop their kids, and if that doesn't wrk I yell at the kids. 


But I'm right now working on a ground level industrial siding that easily accessible to kids. I'm putting a little LGB diesel switcher on it, and some unused rolling stock, and I'm going to let kids push stuf around on that. I've got a platform wth freight and some figures they can move around. So I'm kind of making a "sacrificial lamb." I want to make it a friendly and welcoming place but obviously not get stuff destroyed


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Jerry McColgan on 30 Aug 2009 07:10 AM 


Yesterday I saw 5 accidents resulting from:

1. not paying attention to the train they had been given to run (talking to someone and looking away while their train ran into another)
2. running their train too fast
3. running a train when they did not know (or acknowledge that they did not know) how to handle the remote they were given
4. walking away from the layout while their train was still running



Thanks,

Jerry



Jerry,
ALL those problems are easily resolved:
dont let people run your trains at open houses! 

I have been to many Garden RR open houses..I have NEVER seen one where guests were running trains..
the owner of the railroad, IMO, should be the only one running trains at an pen house..
generally, trains are just set to run by themselves on loops and the owner is then free to visit with guests, and doesnt have to pay attention to the trains except to fix a deraliment or change trains if desired..

IMO, I think its just a bad idea to let people run trains at an open house..I see no need for it.
if you have a few guests over, family, grandchildren, etc..thats different..
in that case, you can easily supervise and let people you know run a few trains..
but strangers running multiple trains at an open house is just asking for trouble..
I would never do it..

Scot


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

If we were in a large metropolitan area with a lot of model railroaders or others to attract to the hobby we would probably have a different approach to visitors. As it is we are in an area (Central Arkansas) where there are not a large number of modelers (of any gauge) that are readily available to communicate with.

It is not our goal to make a major effort to build either the hobby or our club but at the same time we would like to increase the public awareness of the hobby and of our club so that those who might have an interest would know where to find us.

I have been to some nice open houses - such as at national show tours - where I have come away feeling like a tourist rather than a prospective member of whatever club the owners may have belonged to. This is not a complaint - just a difference between touring and participating.

It is our club so we can make whatever rules we want and each member is free to make the rules for when we are at his layout but we tend to think that letting visitors have some hands on playing with our trains would be a better way go give them a feel for the hobby.

We may be going about it the wrong way and maybe we should have a hands off visitor policy. I don't know which is why I am asking.

I once turned around and found a friend staying with us from England actually walking on the high outside curve of my layout 6 feet off the ground. Not only could he have totally destroyed that part of the layout but he could have seriously injured himself (with no medical insurance in this country) by doing something that I never dreamed anyone would do. It never occurred to him that the platform he was strolling on was built to support a 10 pound locomotive and NOT a 180 pound person.

My wife is opposed to posting signs of do's and don'ts because she feels it would make visitors feel unwelcome.

A large part of me feels and believes this hobby is simply too much fun not to be shared and if someone cannot afford to build their own layout we would be quite happy for them to play with our toys if we can be comfortable that they would just be as careful with our toys as we are. I am primarily talking about adults rather than children. There must be a lot of retired people who would really enjoy the hobby if they knew about it.

The trick is to find and attract responsible new members while controlling the irresponsible or ignorant ones.

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

MONITORS. That is the answer. If you are going to have a open house and you want to let someone run trains then have two or three of you best friends or club members who understand how to run trains to monitor the people along with you. They don't have to be "In your face" just hang around and watch. 
They can point out , in a nice way, when the operator should slow down or stop.

The thing about Marty's is that 98 % of the people there have a layout of their own. They are careful. All of my problems last year had to do with Derailment.
I could not run my container train because I had trouble with keeping it on the track. It was a new train right out of the box. Lucky I brought a second train to run. 

When I run trains by myself on my own layout. I never leave them alone. If I go in the house for more coffee. I stop my trains. I have been distracted. Sneaky Snake trying to bite me, Billy Bunnie rabbit wants something to eat. ( I have a few rabbits that will come right up to me) Charlie Chipmunk falling into the water pan again. Five o clock Charlie wandering through the yard ( coyote comes through just about every after noon ) With all that I have had accidents.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh man you can tell J.J. is out in the desert, in a remote area away from the "human beings", he is starting to talk to his animals, and he is naming them too!!! It's ok J.J. jest as long as ya don't tell us dey is talkin back to ya!! Hah LOL. Looking forward to meeting you and the guy's down at Marty's if i'm able to come to the thingy. Regal


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

I haven't been around the country touring garden railroads like a lot of you have, but here in Colorado, I have never seen anyone operating trains other than the owners of the layout, or the owner of the locomotive. A few cases of grand kids running trains on grandpa's layout of course.

At a public open house, we have helpers from the club keeping an eye on the trains for problems leaving the host free to interact with the visitors and answer questions. At my place, I always have the helpers come over for a little training session prior to the open house so they have a feel for what is going on when they get there on the big day. Trains are setup to run automatically on battery power (G-Scale Graphics controls, of course







).


The only damage I have ever incurred during an open house is a few figures knocked over, and a chimney knocked off a roof. All my "fault" because they are within easy reach of young hands. Areas that we don't want people in are blocked off with large flower pots. Most visitors respect your efforts and keep their kids under control. But you really need one or two helpers to keep an eye on them, so they don't end up in the pond or climbing on the layout. A simple warning to "please keep off" is usually all it takes.


At club meetings, the host runs the trains. Our meetings are not meant to be operating sessions. While others are welcome to bring their own equipment to show, I have always felt the primary purpose of hosting our club meetings is show off the host's layout and equipment, not to watch another member fiddle with trying to get his loco to run on the host's layout. I have nothing against operating sessions. Frankly, I wish our club have them, I just think it should be a separate event. 

We have setup a temporary garden railroad at a local public garden a couple of times, where the primary visitors are kids. We let them run the remote, which has been set for a maximum safe speed, while we supervise. Of course the only thing you really need in this case is a button that says "Full Speed Ahead", because that's all they want to do.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Simple answer is at our meets when people come to see what were doing they can look but not touch. We run live steam ranging from a Ruby to a Berkshire. We do have some local kids that we taught to run live steam with the Ruby and thats the only loco that would be used for a public to use. Although he now has found out about girls and does not show up anymore.


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

The OVGRS ( www.ovgrs.org ) does not have an open house for the general public but we do welcome visitors to our regular weekly ops sessions. At our regular ops sessions as well as at the American Invasion, anyone who comes is welcome to run a train and participate in our operation. They are normally assigned an OVGRS member as their conductor for their first visit while they learn the railroad and the operating scheme but otherwise there are no particular rules beyond common sense. We have never had anything stolen nor have we had any damage.

I do appreciate that this is very different from haviung a few dozen (or few hundred) visitors at once wandering all over but we haveraged 2-3 visitors per week plus of course the larger crowd at the Invasion. Our visitors tend to be interested in trains and are most often modellers in another scale. They all enjoy our relaxed ops sessions and the opportunity to run a large scale locomotive.

Regards ... Doug


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm with Scotty. When we do open houses, the trains run themselves (seven at once) and no one other than me, or someone appointed, touches the controls. Sure we get plenty of kids that request that a certain train run over a certain line, but once the trains are up and running, that doesn't usually happen.

There is no way that a person could run a single train and not interfer with the automatic operations, resulting in crashes, etc., and hindering the enjoyment of the other guests.

If it is your intent to let guests run trains, buy used equipment that is already subject to damage and/or missing parts and let them run that. The way most engines are now made, I only buy used because I just end up fixing them anyway, new or old. Besides, even when the trains run themselves, there are still plenty of accidents (such as when a coupler lets go and the engine runs around and smacks the rear of the train) so I find that it hardly pays to buy new.


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

The problem I have during open houses for my indoor layout is that the small kids want to touch _everything_. In addition to large scale I also have Z scale; just one slight touch guarantees a derailment. My solution is to have someone whose sole responsibility is to remind the kids to keep their hands off. I usually use a neighborhood teen-ager for this job.

As for running the trains, it's either me or a volunteer helper from the club.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmm........ this is an interesting and thought-provoking thread! I suppose (as with most things) that it depends upon each individual situation. There are layouts where it would be impossible to monitor everyone without significant help! On the other hand, there are layouts where a hands on experience isn't quite as difficult. My layout is one such as it's only 200 ft. of mainline track but there are two independent loops so multiple trains _can_ be run simultaneously.

I have a philosophy (and it's just mine! I'm not trying to judge anyone..) that this hobby, if it is to grow and be embraced by the next generation, _must_ be a "hands on" hobby! To this end I have opened our layout to allow all children a chance to "run the train." No, I'm not certifiable (well, that's debatable...) and I'm not crazy either! I don't put out my K-27 for six year olds to run at break neck speeds.......I bring out my LGB Mogul for that! I let the children run a train of colorful "shorties" and they get to control the speed, whistle, bell and direction. The look in that child's eyes makes all of the hours needed to weed and re-ballast and whatever to make the layout ready for the open house all worth it! In the two years since I have adopted this philosophy I have never had anything stolen and I have never had a major accident where something was seriously broken. Perhaps I have been lucky.

I run the larger trains on the outside loop and I generally keep the remote in my posession or a trusted friend or family member. However, if the situation warrants it, I will allow older teens that are showing a real interest in largescale railroading to take a crack at the F Scale stuff! I _never_ leave the trains running unattended as Mr. Murphy has made the occasional appearance! Yes, I don't get enough time to talk to the adults when the kids are lining up to run the trains but that is my choice and it doesn't seem to bother the adults. Quite the contrary, I have had many parents come up to me and thank me for giving their children the opportunity to run the trains. It's my personal philosophy but it's one that works for me!


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I have had numerous open houses and there are always children in the crowd. I throw a blanket on the ground and put several of my older cars down for the children and adults to touch and look at. Everyone wants to see what they are like and see what you are getting for your money. This is just human nature. Yes, I have signs and they are there for the visitors protection. I have the Snoopy Flyer from LGB that everyone loves to run. He has crashed many times and has stood the test of time. When asked why they can't run the real trains, I am honest. These are trains and not a race car set, and do you really want to see an old man cry? Regards, Dennis.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Seems to me, one trick is to have a couple friends over to run trains and look after things while you interact with guests.

At the Botanic, kids LOVE when I bring out a tray of cars and "help" me add them to a train. I let them look and touch while I hang onto the car. I also keep a pair of couplers in my pocket as a common question is "how do they stick together?" I've also heard counting in MANY languages. I have to learn to count in Polish.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Interesting.... 

Stanman, nothing like finding a Z scale loco in your bed after the brats have gone! My brother in law even held the little one up so he could grab it off a high shelf! 

I built with my 4 grand nephews in mind, 2 are 'go fast for derailments' and 2 love trains.... Just my luck, the 2 devils live close and the 2 angels are up north... and the trouble boys always come along, which is a real pity and not fair to 'my boys' with The Gene..... 

As the Grey Recluse I've always thought that; Kids and parties are best at other people's homes! 

John


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry,

In my open house experiences, when it was just a club thing, I would always invite members to bring their locomotives to run. On a few occasions, someone would show up with a locomotive. 

The last few years, I have been having open houses as a part of the RR Museum of PA's "Model Railroad Days". For the previous two open houses, I have had 'guest engineers'. I have not actually run any of the trains for these events. I was always too busy talking with guests, making them feel welcome, not just some tourist. But, regognizing that probably 25-30% of my guests are 12 and under, I have set up a 'kids' layout. Just a LGB ToyTrain starter set and a loop of track set in the grass. This is for reasons cited above. 1. It shows how easily these trains can be set up outside. 2. The durability. 3. It is FUN to run a train. Many of the comments I have read in my guest book include thanks for having something for the kids to run. I treat the TOY TRAIN as a consumable. I expect that it will see numerous wrecks during the day. THat's what it is for. 

I did notice that the fan cover on my RS-3 was missing following last year's show. That was a little disappointing. Otherwise, there was no damage reported. 

The other thing that happens as a result of the open houses is a full retuning of the railroad at least once a year and modification to the layout to allow for better operations. 

That and all my grass gets trampled just before the leaves drop, making raking a lot easier..

Mark


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I appreciate everyone's comments. They are giving me a lot to think about. 

Please pardon me for not answering most of the responses because then my responses would end up diluting the topic. I am reading and paying close attention to everything everyone is saying.

It is apparent that there no common solution to club meetings and open houses but that each club and layout owner has to make their own choices as to how they wish to handle things. This topic is giving me a lot of information about things that never occurred to me but that would have come up - along with options to choose from as the situations arise.

To be honest I have never been a "kid person" in that while I love my kids and grandkids and I enjoy a limited amount of time with other kids I have a very low tolerance level for unsupervised kids (especially older teenagers) who seem intent on and who seem to enjoy breaking things. At my age (65) I am more interested in attracting responsible individuals (of any age) that can be trusted to be left unsupervised knowing that they would treat my layouts and equipment just as if I were standing next to them.

Also since I have a fair amount invested in my layouts (more than I can afford to lose to vandalism or theft) I would not wish to have any open houses that would invite the general public but would instead prefer to attract new members from some sort of pre-qualified groups (perhaps other gauge modelers or maybe from senior citizen or retirement centers).

I would suspect that there are a lot of retirees who would love to discover garden railroading and even if they lived in a place that did not provide space for them to have a layout of their own they would be welcome here.

It would be interesting to hear if other clubs have found groups that have provided new blood to garden railroading. Not only are we a small club but I am also located near small communities. The nearest significant city (Little Rock) is 30 miles away. When I lived in Chicago 30 miles would be nothing but here it is a LONG way for many people.

Mark said "That and all my grass gets trampled just before the leaves drop, making raking a lot easier.."

In my case I have started my annual (used to be semi-annual) lawn mowing. I started with the DR Mower but it broke on some of the "weeds" that have grown into 3" thick trees. After I fixed the DR Mower I proceeded with the Bush Hog (pulled by the 4 wheeler) until it broke (the "grass" is tall enough for deer to hide in). Today I hope to get the Bush Hog fixed and a couple of chain saws fixed so I can get to the trees that have fallen and blocked the trails so that even the Jeep can't get through. I have to finish before the rains start because once it rains the creek (dry all summer) will get too muddy to get the Jeep or 4 wheeler across to cut (mow) the trails.

All this because we are planning the next club meeting in a couple of weeks and we expect some new visitors. The "grass" around the caboose layout is now about 3 feet high (that's why the layout is 4 feet high).

When the leaves fall it will be time for the leaf blowers and blow torches. ; )

Cheers,

Jerry


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

In my club we really do not have a problem. 

We all watch the trains while talking, but we do not have multiple trains on the same track during open houses. 

Single loops with single trains running.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Last year at one of our once-a-month open to the public running days, a young autistic fella reached into the cab of my 1/3rd scale diesel loco through the open windows and trashed the entire scale fitted control panel in less time than it took one of us to reach him. The cost to replace the broken bits was not a lot, to tell the truth, since most of the levers were actually small operating knobs from farming equipment, but the shock to the system was a real wake-up call to us all. Thankfully he stayed well away from the 1/3rd scale live-steamers, else it could have got very painful very quickly. 

Earlier that year, two visitors - both of whom declared themsleves expert operators - succeeded in almost destroying a Gauge 1 live-steam German Pacific locomotive by letting it boil dry without rurning off the gas....they then walked away and left it cooking. 

So now, hard-nosed it might seem, but unless their level of experience in train operation is known to me, the only thing I'll ever let visitors drive on my track at home is an LGB track cleaner. 

Under supervision. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

A few observations: 

None of the steamups I've been to in the last dozen years allow anyone other than the owner of a piece of equipment to run it, unless said owner grants permission to a friend, relative or hanger-on. 

Children are naturally curious and want to touch the trains. They need nearly constant reminding not to touch live steamers. The good news is that most children will pay attention and follow instructions; their parents can often be another story. 

Some of the more hair-raising examples of guests run amok that have been cited in previous posts give ample reason to consider that if you're hosting a get-together of any kind, be certain that your liability insurance is up to date. (No, I do not work for a company which sells liability insurance). Unfortunately, it's all too common in the US for visitors, guests or even people who casually wander onto your property to sue, sometimes many weeks or months after the alleged injury.


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