# How Much to Move 1:1 Wood Caboose?



## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello all,
I was hoping to get an idea of roughly how much a prototype wood caboose weighs. or better yet, if anyone has experience moving one of these, I would love to hear your experience.

I have a chance to get (free I think) a wood caboose. I live about 5 miles from it. Unfortunately, I don't know anymore about it yet.

Thanks,
Matt


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

There was an article in Trains Magazine in July 2006 on this specific topic. It's here IF you have a Kalmbach magazine account http://www.trains.com/trn/default.aspx?c=a&id=538

Key points it says...

a. House movers may be a lot cheaper than a crane company...$2,000 to $4,000 versus $12,000 


b. How it gets to the pick up point where the mover starts his thing MATTERS. If it's fixable so that it can be put on a train and dropped off at the local siding, you save BIG. 

c. Getting real bids for moving it is a real bitch....plan on spending a lot of time on the phone.

d. Figure on 25 tons as the weight being moved...but that could be for a steel caboose.


e. The track it will sit on at your property...figure another $5000


f. Permits...you'll need a bunch to move this thing over the roads...and to move power lines. Find out what that costs.


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## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

Do a search for or ask Jerry McColgan he just moved a caboose to his property....


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

One thing I haven't seen mentioned as yet, but I would think one of the first things you'd want to get is a good professional appraisal of the caboose's current structural integrity, because that is going to impact everything else.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

i was working at Niagara Hobby when they bought and moved the caboose they have. Winters Rigging (a professional Train wrecking crew) moved that caboose.
http://www.niagarahobby.com/

The story goes Winters doens't answer the phone for less than $10K? I am not sure what the true price was as the owner never told us what it cost. It had to be moved thru 5 townships all with police escort under no less than 4 underpasses and into position in the parking lot. It was a one day process "except" the track it sits on in the parking lot. That was done earlier in the week. The rest was one 8 hour day. They started at 9 am and were done by 5pm. No cranes. Side boom crawlers and a truck with a small crane. Special truck that "clamped" the caboose front to rear somehow using the coupler pockets I think? Able to hydraulically raise and lower the body as they needed. The wheels and truck caem on a separate flat bed and were in plce by the time the body got there. Most of teh restoration and repaitning happened at the old site and I know it's been repainted at least once while onsite since then. That was at least 15 years now? WOW!

Chas


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I think winters moved two streetcars owned by a friend from somewhere out in the Midwest to NY a few years back. 

Not sure where you are located, but I somehow remember reading someone at the SPCRR had some experiences in estimating weight and moving wood stock. 

http://www.spcrr.org/


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## RGSNH (Jan 13, 2008)

another thing to consider right up front is the potential highway route. if you have a clear route without overpasses and bridges, then you only have wires to contend with which the utilities have to move up to a certain minumum (16' comes to mind) by law anyway. Removing a cupola for a move is no fun. consider how much prep work you can do yourself i.e remove steps etc. The railroad museum i am conected with in new england has a dolly that effectivly takes the place of one of the trucks, and have moved small pieces with a truck type wrecker on the other end and the height is that of the car sitting on the trucks. we have moved many freight cars over the road using this type of setup. trucks can be moved on a roll back type wrecker one at a time. so if you can jack it up, roll the trucks out, remove the rails and ties to the new location, get the car on a dolly you can do this quite reasonably for probally around 5K. cranes eat up megabucks by the minute and are not nessasary.

Al P.


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## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

What is your goal? Do you want that particular caboose? Do you want an actual for real caboose? Or will a reasonable facsimile thereof suit you? 

If you just want to add flavor and keep costs down, check out Dogpatch and Western> 
They have some interesting caboose packages.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Where are you located? I can get you in touch with my friend that does heavy hauling full time. I know he moves stuff for Colorado RR museum and also Penn Railroad Museum. He lives in PA, not sure of the costs though. If it needs to be craned to the trailer and off your lookign at 1,000-1,300 a day just for the crane. Figure the truck and low boy will run you around the same. Not including the police OT you are paying for a escort if its needed.


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## rpc7271 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds to me like it would be cheaper to get a set of 1:1 plans for a caboose and build one on your property from scratch!


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## R.W. Marty (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds to me like it would be cheaper to get a set of 1:1 plans for a caboose and build one on your property from scratch! 

Which to me brings up the first question to be answered. 
What are the local building/planning codes or HOA/CC&R's regarding the placement of something like this on your property. 
Just a thought. 
Rick Marty


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow! Great responses gents!

I should have been more specific in my post, so here's a little more detail:

The caboose is one of two that have been on display in a town that is probably closer to three miles away than five. There are no overpasses, and only two turns to be made before my driveway. It would probably be cheaper, and definitely easier to build one from scratch, but I was hoping to preserve this as a piece of history, because if things don't change, it will rot away where it stands. They have had no luck finding volunteers to restore it.

This is all _v_ery preliminary, and I don't know much more about it. I have looked at it in the past, of course, but not in this light, so I will have to take a trip down tomorrow to see just how salvageable it actually is.

I appreciate the responses,
Matt


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Dean Whipple on 11 Sep 2009 12:18 PM 
Do a search for or ask Jerry McColgan he just moved a caboose to his property.... 

Hi Dean,

I just ran across this topic.

In my case I bought a MoPac steel caboose (MP13641). It weighs around 50,000 pounds (52,000 pounds originally).

It cost me $5,000 to move it 5 miles with around 50 overhead wires that had to be raised to make room for the cupola. Actually he quoted me $4,500 to move it and I added a $500 bonus if he moved it without any damage as I have seen a lot of cabooses that have been damaged in moving including mine in a previous move). They moved it with no damage and I paid the bonus.

My cost included not only moving the caboose but also the rails and ties I bought with the caboose.

I hired a house mover that had previous experience moving railroad equipment.

Here are some photos of the move which will show how they managed the move without the high expense of a crane:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/ma...th=Caboose Move 

(This link is not working right. The entire above line including the word Move must be part of the link)

It was very interesting to see how they did it.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

This should work:

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/je...se%20Move/


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Jerry,

Thanks for posting those pixes. (And the corrected link--I'dve never figured it out by myself).

Verrry interesting, and brought back lots of good memories of heavy work on cold winter days--though on a farm, _not_ moving cabooses! Part of it was watching the shadows get longer and longer.... the soggy ground.... the rusty iron.... Yeah. Seeing those done me good!









Les


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Very Cool to see those pictures!

And how great is it to have a caboose in your yard? 

Way to go Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

If one looks around cabooses that were donated to cities all around the country are being neglected, vandalized and destroyed to the point that restoration will become prohibitively expensive.. We have made it a hobby of visiting all the cabooses we can find in Arkansas and elsewhere. Almost all public cabooses have been subjected to so much unrepaired vandalism including having all windows broken out the cities just replaced the windows with bars and now offer no public access. Some cabooses have been intentionally burned partially or totally.Our caboose has evidence of what I believe was a grease fire probably from the days the school district used it as a concession stand.

The caboose exteriors are being covered with graffiti and the broken windows allow the rain in which destroys the floors and walls. Todays generations have no experience with or appreciation for railroad history and I fear that like the steam locomotives one by one these memories of our railroad history will fall to the scrappers torch.

I had seen some photos of the way other cabooses had been moved with very heavy cranes and I knew I could never afford to hire a crane that could lift a 50,000 pound caboose so before we bid on the caboose I did a search for more economical means of moving the caboose to our property. It was very expensive but we feel that we are doing our part to keep this part of history intact for future generations. I have to admit that it is a black hole for money, time and effort as I have been working all year to make it into a useful addition while trying to make as few changes from its original configuration as possible. 

The caboose now has full plumbing with its own septic tank, full 120VAC power, phone, AC, electric heat, wood burning stove, computer and DirecTV so it is much more than just something to look at externally. It is the new clubhouse for The Arkansas Powered Rail Garden Railway Club.

There is still a LOT of work to do but the new paint job will have to wait until next year as we cannot afford that yet.

Jerry


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Les on 14 Sep 2009 03:23 AM 

Verrry interesting, and brought back lots of good memories of heavy work on cold winter days--though on a farm, _not_ moving cabooses! Part of it was watching the shadows get longer and longer.... the soggy ground.... the rusty iron.... Yeah. Seeing those done me good!









Les


Hi Les,

The caboose movers (house movers) showed how people without access to heavy equipment can figure out how to do things with what they have available. I could not imagine how they could move the caboose but step by step they got it done with a minimum of equipment.

This is not a farm but if we did not live in the country with some acreage we would not have had a place to put a caboose and many places would probably have zoning ordinances against it.

Jerry


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## Paradise (Jan 9, 2008)

*How Much to Move 1:1 Wood Caboose? * 

Wooden have a clue 

Andrew


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

After reviewing Jerry's Caboose move I think Niagara Hobby had it easy! LOL! They moved from a siding near a nice Parking lot to a store Parking lot. All paved or nicely graded with no extreme elevation changes or ditches to contend with. The only wires they ahda problem with were the ones coming into the store lot. The rest were all high enough to not be a problem with the rig they used.

Chas


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## AndyC (Jan 2, 2008)

Some might be interested in the following website/link.... 

http://www.dogpatchandwesternrr.com/index.php 

Looked quite interesting to me, and thought it might be to some of you... 

Disclaimer: I have no affilliation with them, and am not trying to push anything, only supplying a link....


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By R.W. Marty on 11 Sep 2009 05:49 PM 

Sounds to me like it would be cheaper to get a set of 1:1 plans for a caboose and build one on your property from scratch! 

Which to me brings up the first question to be answered. 
What are the local building/planning codes or HOA/CC&R's regarding the placement of something like this on your property. 
Just a thought. 
Rick Marty 
Rick, I haven't checked with the township yet about code. I have no idea what HOA/CC&R even stands for. can you help me out?

Thanks,
Matt


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Matt,

Here are a few links you may find interesting and helpful:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Natu...boose.aspx

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RRcaboose/http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1972-01-01/Pssst-Hey-Kid-Wanna-Buy-a-Caboose.aspx

Jerry


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## lincoln pin (Feb 24, 2009)

HOA is a Home Owners Association, if you have an HOA then you usually have CC&R *What are CC&Rs? *The covenants, conditions and restrictions (CC&Rs) are the governing documents that dictate how the homeowners association operates and what rules the owners -- and their tenants and guests -- must obey. These legal documents might also be called the bylaws, the master deed, the houses rules or another name. These documents and rules are legally enforceable by the homeowners association, unless a specific provision conflicts with federal, state or local laws.
More rules to live by. Good luck if you set forth on this.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for all of the links and story Jerry. I remember reading it the first time as it unfolded, and my memory allows me to read it again like it's the first time.

Thanks for the explanation, Lincoln Pin... I know some people that live in developments, and cannot imagine dealing with some of the rules they enforce. Fortunately, I live in a township 

in an agricultural zoned area, so I don't expect this to be an issue. I will, of course, verify this before I get too caught up in my project...oops - too late!


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## Gary To (Jan 5, 2008)

Hello Jerry,
Very nice photos, admire you guy very close to a railroad and easy to get some railroad stuff







, very interesting, which paint schemeyou will paint on that caboose? looking forward to seeing the result.
Gary


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Gary To on 14 Sep 2009 09:27 PM 
Hello Jerry,
Very nice photos, admire you guy very close to a railroad and easy to get some railroad stuff







, very interesting, which paint scheme you will paint on that caboose? looking forward to seeing the result.
Gary


Hi Gary,

Around 20 years ago when the railroads stopped using cabooses they were available for purchase from the railroads. A huge number were given to cities all across the USA. Today they have become hard to find in good condition and those privately owned tend to be quite expensive to buy.

I had spent about 4 years trying to buy one of the local city owned cabooses before mine became available and even then it was put out for public auction so it could have easily sold for much more than I could afford. I figure that I paid 6.3 cents per pound for the caboose (not counting the move) and my major concern was that a scrap metal dealer may have outbid me. As it turned out I was the only bidder.

We plan to repaint it to its original Missouri Pacific (MoPac) colors. Our caboose is MP13641 and the caboose in Arkadelphia (MP13631) is pretty much the way we want to finish ours.

http://www.forums.rrarchives.com/vi...&t=403

http://dbry.rrarchives.com/cabsavedhtml/cabsaved.html

http://www.forums.rrarchives.com/vi...&t=386

Jerry


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Jerry,
It was fun reading about your caboose again. Oh, and I have even been to Arkadelphia.








Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By tmejia on 15 Sep 2009 07:02 AM 


Hi Jerry,
It was fun reading about your caboose again. Oh, and I have even been to Arkadelphia.








Tommy








Rio Gracie



Hi Tommy,

The folks at Arkadelphia were most gracious. I phoned ahead and they arranged to unlock their caboose for us to wander through and photograph the insides of it. Unlike our caboose theirs was never gutted and still has the full interior.

They even gave me a couple of air hoses with couplings to replace ours that had been cut off by vandals (they just happened to have a couple of spares).

I have even had a museum give me a few bolts etc. that I needed. The railroad community has been very helpful when possible.

Jerry


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## lincoln pin (Feb 24, 2009)

Check this out from craigslist in chicago, this near the Wisconsin border. 
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/atq/1378788016.html


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lincoln pin on 21 Sep 2009 11:06 PM 
Check this out from craigslist in chicago, this near the Wisconsin border. 
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/atq/1378788016.html



The compressor in that air conditioner will burn up with it mounted sideways like that.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

So things are slowly progressing on the quest for the caboose...It turns out that the wood caboose is available to me - for the price of scrap metal. If I had not found out about this caboose, it would be on it's way to the scrap yard in a couple weeks.

Of course, it is still to early to count my chickens - although it is getting tougher not to...








Anyway, I was hoping someone out there can help me with the details of this caboose. I am estimating that it was made around 1900 -1911, but I don't know that much about them. As you can see, it has a steel frame and end walls, and a LOT of repair work needed. I know very little about brakes and their time period, so if it would help to get better pictures of any details, please let me know.

I am especially interested in weight estimates of the trucks in order to get moving estimates.


Thanks again for your help!














































Incidentally, there is a small chance that the steel caboose might be available. The owner that purchased it a few months ago has not moved it yet, and has missed three deadlines from the city. Let me know if you are interested, and I will try to find out more.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Appears to be a B&O I-5 or I-5C I-5D (the I-5A and B were steel baywindow cars), as the I-1 and I-1A have larger end windows and the ends were not steel on those cars. If so, I can get you some approx weights.....(builder data)


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Garrett! 
From what I have found since this morning when you posted this, I believe you are right. It is an I-5. Any info you might have technical, historical or anything else would really be appreciated. 

Thank you very much!

Matt


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Pretty neat Matt.I hope it works out. 

You might try the historical society for more info - http://www.borhs.org/
or the yahoo group - http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/gro..._and_Ohio/ 

-Brian


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Posted By Matt Vogt on 12 Oct 2009 04:19 AM 


I am especially interested in weight estimates of the trucks in order to get moving estimates.








I would suggest that you try the RR Caboose forum for any sort of information about any cabooses:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RRcaboose/

I Don't remember where I got the information or if I remember correctly but I seem to recall that the wheels with axles are around 1500 lbs each.

The following photo suggests to me that my trucks weigh 5,557 lbs including the wheels. The trucks on my caboose have roller bearings but I would expect the weight to be similar. Perhaps there is a weight marking somewhere but your caboose is much older so perhaps not.










Apparently some trucks are held captive by a pin that can be released through the floor and others simply drop down as the caboose is raised (the pin has been removed in the picture below):










Once free both wheels and truck can be transported by a single truck (not too far) one at a time or for that matter the truck can be raised should allow the wheels and axles to remain on the rails to be picked up one at a time.

In the picture below they put a chain around the front axle and tied the winch cable to the rear axle so that the axles stayed with the truck as it was raised.










It does not take heavy equipment to move the wheels and trucks:












I would suggest that you check with house movers and try to find one that has handled railroad equipment n the past as they will probably be cheaper and more efficient.
You may have a local railroad museum or local National Railway Historical Society chapter http://nrhs.com/ that can help.

A lot of cabooses have been damaged by movers who did not know (or care) how to do it right. Many steps have been ruined even on short moves and my caboose has damage from a previous move.

Hope this helps,

Jerry


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Matt Vogt on 12 Oct 2009 12:49 PM 
Hey Garrett! 
From what I have found since this morning when you posted this, I believe you are right. It is an I-5. Any info you might have technical, historical or anything else would really be appreciated. 

Thank you very much!

Matt 



Matt-

Years ago, I actually had an interest in US outline H0 scale prototype modelling but absolutely burned out on it and went on to European narrow gauge modelling.....but I find the odd "Merican" hunt is still fun. I have some data from an I-1 to an I-1A kitbash I made years ago.

Anyhow, the I-5s were built in in the B&O's shops in Washington, IN excluding the very first car which was built in the shops in Mt Clair, IN. The numbers were C-1900 to C-2299, with a total of 400 being built. These were started in 1924 and production (B&O Shops) ended in 1929.

The later subclasses (starting in the 1930s) came out of this fleet, were modified for pusher service, I-5C. Looking at the steps on your car and pix and text here, your car is an I-5C or (probably) D. The wheelbase was lengthend by four feet total, so the steps (knee knockers) were shorter, as seen in the second photo down. Now, the proof of the pudding (and good/bad news for you) is the D subclass also had steel added and cement put under the floors to make them heavier. So your hack will weigh either 40,000 or (gulp) 63,000, if it is in fact a D. The converted vertical brake wheel and the AB brakes also make me "think" it is a D subclass, but never assume with the B&O....

Are any of the side windows "missing" (not rotted away, but borded over)? If so, the car may have seen further repairs in assorted Ohio shops back in the 1960s. The cars had four side windows when built on both sides.

All of these cars were retired by about 1980 +/-.

B&O had some of the best looking hacks IMO. This could be a nice car when done.


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks again Garrett, Brian and Jerry for the good links and information.
Thanks to the B&O link, I know now that the I-5 I am looking at is one that was fitted for pusher service and has a floor filled with concrete! Lucky me!

This puts the weight up to 62,700 lbs! I measured today, and from the top of the cupola to the bottom brake hardware is just under 12'. Knowing this, I can finally get a better estimate for moving it.
The floor is still miraculously in great shape, but the siding and some of the wood framework is going to need replaced. It is going to take a LOT of work!

Once I have shipping estimates I can better decide whether or not this endeavor is worth taking on...

Matt


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

FYI- I don't think that the numbers in the trucks are the weight, they would have no "exact" idea of what they would weigh when casting them. I will ask an old car knocker I know to see if he can share anything more on that, but more than likely they are casting run numbers from the foundry that poured them. 

Glad the was of some use to you Matt....


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