# Working MOTORIZED INCLINE



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I found this on Ebay. It looks interesting. What i cannot figure out is how the curved rollers are accomplished with regard to the skips. Wouln't the rope cause the operation to stop when the skip was over the roller on a curved section of track? 
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&amp...Categories


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

The rollers just keep the rope centered, they don't touch the car. 
The rope pulls the car up and garvity, the other, down. The rollers might not even roll, statc guides. 
Depending on the attachment to the rope, the roller could cause the car to jump a tad, but I don't see any binding. 

John


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

John,

I figured that the rollers don't touch the car, but look at the photo of the car on the curved track. The rope ends at it's attachment to the car. How does the car get past the roller without some sort of mishap? And for that matter, how does the rope get back onto the roller as the car moves back down the incline? The curve is what has me confused.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I dunno then.... 
Get one and 'Splain it to me, lol 

John


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I made something similar in HO scale, but straight... the sheaves on the curve will control the line so it stays centered between the rails, and the line will pull off the sheave as the car passes by. 

The sheaves should rotate to keep friction on the line down... I had some prototype drawings and pictures from Model Railroader to work from. 

Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't see a curve in the track...that would be difficult due to the lateral movement. But any humps are done with a roller. The same seller has them: 

http://cgi.ebay.com/EXPANSION-KIT-o...ys_Hobbies_Model_Railways&hash=item45f28fdebc 

Also, can anyone explain why On30/Gn15 modellers insist on making four wheel cars by just putting a standard HO freight car truck under them Vs. using a pedestal type four wheel frame...one can be made easily or even done with a modified wood beam four wheel HO passenger car truck.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Looks like a curve to me


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Exactly Greg, Thank you. Now for those of you not understanding what I meant by the cable, the pulley and the curve, please look at the photo Greg has been kind enough to post in living color, and explain how the physics will work. I have asked the seller about these issues. If and when I receive an answer, I will post it here.


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Madman on 30 Apr 2011 08:41 PM 
Exactly Greg, Thank you. Now for those of you not understanding what I meant by the cable, the pulley and the curve, please look at the photo Greg has been kind enough to post in living color, and explain how the physics will work. I have asked the seller about these issues. If and when I receive an answer, I will post it here.


I don't see it as a problem.

For a hump the capstan is centered and when the center of the car passes over it, the cable passes over it and centers itself. For turns, the capstan is either left or right of center (look close) so that when the car passes over it, the center of the car, and the cable, pass around the proper side of the capstan. Looking at the shape, the capstan for a curve then sort of locks the cable under the lip as the car goes through the curve.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Tod's got it right. There are rollers on straight sections...and capstans on curved sections. On the curved sections, the OUTSIDE edge of the capstan is in the inside the center of the curved track. The capstan spacing for curves is based on how far to the inside rail it can be placed without hitting the wheels of the car. As the car approaches...in either direction, it will pull the line off the side of the capstan...or put it back on as it continues around the curve...depending on direction. 

The rails on many wharves back in the late 1800s had arrangements like this to pull railroad cars onto the wharf for unloading or loading onto/off a ship. They used the same kind of steam donkey's that loggers used to power the winch that pulled the cars around the wharf...cept that both ends of the car/train where attached to the pulley arrangement...which made the pulley arrangement a bit more complicated.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Here is the reply from the seller;

"You'll note the curved track & offset pulleys of the prototype incline shown in last picture of our listing. Curved & banked inclines were quite common with the first & last skip lifting & laying the cable as they passed over the pulleys. Additional pulleys were often used above the skips to keep the pulling cable low enough to prevent the leading ship from becoming airborn. Some experimentation was required but we did manage to sucessfully operate our test model around corners using an endless loop." 


He states that the cable is an endless loop. That does make some sense to me, but in Greg's photo, the cable is tied to the skip, which would bring it above the pulley when the skip passes over the capstan. I don't doubt that Mike is correct, I just cannot see it yet.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The endless or not loop is not the "Trick", it's putting the "capstan" in precisely the right place to "take over" the cable as, in this picture, the car moves away from you and goes down grade. 

You need the track to drop so that the cable can then go onto the capstan, before the track curves away that would take away the correct horizontal alignment of the cable. 

It's tricky and takes some experimenting as the seller stated. 

A straight one, like I built, was easy, since the cable is always aligned over the center of the rails. 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

What strikes my eye is the height of the line at the car vs. the top flange on the capstan. If the car is moving towards it, the line gets pulled down while the car resists that... a potential bind. 

John


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 01 May 2011 09:04 AM 
What strikes my eye is the height of the line at the car vs. the top flange on the capstan. If the car is moving towards it, the line gets pulled down while the car resists that... a potential bind. 

John Take a look closely at the point where the 'cable' attaches to the car frame. I'll bet it is hanging just below the axle height, and I'll bet that tube-like stand-off is what contacts the top of the capstan - if anything. The cable is then held below the top of the capstan and doesn't try to get over the top flange.

The 'endless loop' of cable has a spring in it somewhere. On mountain cable cars it is often the end pulley that is mounted on a slider and it is pulled back by a spring or some big weights. The spring on the model undoubtedly helps the cable get around the pulleys.

_I don't know why we're having this discussion. The seller can probably expalin exactly how it works!
_


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

What struck my mind's eye upon further thoughting... is it's an optical illusion and we cant see the stand off under the car, now it looks like it is at axle height. 

'We' are having this discussion because we can. Plus there is folks lore about ebays sometimes not having clues... I say with a wink. 

I volunteered to put my foot in my mouth in the above post, yet just now I extracted it ever so delicately... 

When my coffee is done I will be making saw dust, I have cribbing to make! And a cooler day for it! 

John


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

...Take a look closely at the point where the 'cable' attaches to the car frame. I'll bet it is hanging just below the axle height, and I'll bet that tube-like stand-off is what contacts the top of the capstan - if anything. The cable is then held below the top of the capstan and doesn't try to get over the top flange...



The key thing to understand about the capstan operation is that the tie point on the car is the left (or right) of the capstan when the tie point on the car passes the capstan...and the tie point is probably vertically centered on the capstan pulley. The cable is pulled away from the side of the capstan...NEVER off the top...as the car approaches the capstan. As the car continues around the curve, the cable will sweep left (or right) towards the capstan till it makes contact...then it's captured there by the flanges at the top and bottom. Nothing on the car contacts the capstan.


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