# RC for Accucraft Shay



## Matt Z (Dec 2, 2009)

Hey all, 

I am thinking about putting in some RC to control the throttle and Johnson bar on my 2-cylinder Shay. Just wondering if anyone could throw some insight my way on how to do so and where the get the parts. 

Thanks! 
Matt


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Matt Z on 13 Oct 2010 11:35 AM 
Hey all, 

I am thinking about putting in some RC to control the throttle and Johnson bar on my 2-cylinder Shay. Just wondering if anyone could throw some insight my way on how to do so and where the get the parts. 

Thanks! 
Matt 
Tom LaPointe here has done it on both 2 and 3 cylinder Shays, and has posted it recently for the benefit of others like you and me. Do a search for it. It seems pretty simple, especially on the 2-cylinder version, where he has simply used the Johnson bar as a throttle/direction device due to the reversing block method of operation.

All he does is to crank up the throttle to a pre-set level, and operate the servo that moves the Johnson bar - MAGIC!!! he gets motion of the required velocity and in the right direction depending on how much he moves it.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Matt Z (Dec 2, 2009)

Hey Tac, that sounds like it would work pretty well if you had a flat track. I've got some grades to overcome on my layouts so it almost seems like I'd need a separate control for the throttle?


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

If you RC'd the shay so that you used the j-bar to control speed and direction, you would have the throttle turned up all the way the whole time. You'd essentially be using the reversing block to control the amount of steam that's going to the cylinders.

You can experiment with it the next time you run your shay. Turn your throttle all the way open with the j-bar in neutral. Then, very slowly move the throttle from neutral to forward, and you'll see how it can act like the throttle.


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## Matt Z (Dec 2, 2009)

Hmm it does seem like a good idea. Worth a try for me. Where do I get the parts?


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Anthony Duarte on 13 Oct 2010 09:11 PM 
If you RC'd the shay so that you used the j-bar to control speed and direction, you would have the throttle turned up all the way the whole time. You'd essentially be using the reversing block to control the amount of steam that's going to the cylinders.

You can experiment with it the next time you run your shay. Turn your throttle all the way open with the j-bar in neutral. Then, very slowly move the throttle from neutral to forward, and you'll see how it can act like the throttle. 
Isn't that what I already wrote?

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought so tac, oh well, two countries separated by a common language.


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

Posted By tacfoley on 14 Oct 2010 04:44 AM 
Posted By Anthony Duarte on 13 Oct 2010 09:11 PM 
If you RC'd the shay so that you used the j-bar to control speed and direction, you would have the throttle turned up all the way the whole time. You'd essentially be using the reversing block to control the amount of steam that's going to the cylinders.

You can experiment with it the next time you run your shay. Turn your throttle all the way open with the j-bar in neutral. Then, very slowly move the throttle from neutral to forward, and you'll see how it can act like the throttle. 
Isn't that what I already wrote?

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund



;-)


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pantages on 14 Oct 2010 05:14 AM 
I thought so tac, oh well, two countries separated by a common language. 

Cher M. Pantage, alors, me disent tout à son sujet.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/
Contributeur au Fonds de restauration du phare de Cape Meares


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## Matt Z (Dec 2, 2009)

Gentlemen, did either of you notice excessive steam usage since the throttle was wide open? Or does the J bar really limit the steam that well?


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## K27_463 (Jan 2, 2008)

It does not always need to be wide open. Note that TAC said PRESET level. Conditions vary, the shay is very powerful and handles many grades as if they are not there. Using the jbar linkage as a single point of r/c control is a well established method. 

Jonathan/EMW


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## Westcott (Feb 17, 2009)

Does this method of using the j-bar as a throttle apply just to Shays, or to any steam loco?


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## Anthony Duarte (Dec 27, 2007)

From my understanding - and please correct me if I'm wrong - it only works with engines that have fixed valve gear and a reversing block. (rubys, shays, early moguls).
I know I can use the j-bar as the throttle on my forney, but as for my s-12... it has walschearts valve gear to control the direction, so by by moving the j-bar, i'm also changing the timing and the "cut off" point of steam entering the cylinders.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Using the jbar linkage as a single point of r/c control is a well established method 
Sheesh, guys - I hadn't heard that one. 

I only had time to add one servo to my C-19 this year before Rog's steam-up, so I put it on the throttle. It worked on the hills, but I had no brakes to come to a dead stop! 

AS far as parts, etc., my article on fiddling with servo installation for my Ruby/FWRR might be useful. It was in SitG - email me and I'll send you a copy.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Anthony Duarte on 14 Oct 2010 08:42 AM 
From my understanding - and please correct me if I'm wrong - it only works with engines that have fixed valve gear and a reversing block. (rubys, shays, early moguls).
I know I can use the j-bar as the throttle on my forney, but as for my s-12... it has walschearts valve gear to control the direction, so by by moving the j-bar, i'm also changing the timing and the "cut off" point of steam entering the cylinders.

You are correct. It only works with 'Ruby' style reversing blocks and 'Ruby' style valves that are actually nothing more than fixed eccentrics. this is why you can 'tune' either of the Shays to operate better, something that a few owners had to do back in the days when this loco was a noob. Many found that it ran better in one direction than another, and had t oactually reverse the position of the eccentric on the drive shaft to get an equal performance in each direction. The Maerklin S3/6 and BR44 also have this simple block reversing valve - I drive mine like that.

The 1/29th AccuCraft switcher also has this simplified valving, and the external valve gear is a convincing fake.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Matt Z on 14 Oct 2010 07:42 AM 
Gentlemen, did either of you notice excessive steam usage since the throttle was wide open? Or does the J bar really limit the steam that well? 

The Johnson bar controls the amount of 'cut-off' by its position. If it is wide open, then you are using a lot, if not, not. As either AccuCraft Shay is both a prodigious producer AND use of steam at the best of times, I really don't notice how much it's wasting. All I know is that running mine on main131's track - a long loop with graded ends to make it interesting, it fails to take any notice of a twenty-five pound consist....

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

To tell the truth, I'm not quite sure why I'm bothering writing all this stuff - with Tom's excellent post on installing r/c in his Shay right underneath this one, it seems 'pointless'. [Sorry, Tom]. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## msimpson (Jan 5, 2009)

While you seem to have an abundant amount of information, you might also remember that the Shay is basically made from Ruby parts, so any of the articles about R/C ing a Ruby would probably translate over. And lord knows, you need some way to stop the Shay's tendancy to run away ; ) 

Regards, Mike


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Î'Î³Î±Ï€Î·Ï„Î­ tac, Î¾Î­Ï�Ï‰ Pantages Î¼ÎµÏ�Î¹ÎºÎ­Ï‚ Ï†Î¿Ï�Î­Ï‚ ÏƒÏ…Î³Ï‡Î­ÎµÏ„Î±Î¹ Î¼Îµ Ï„Î¿ Î½Î± ÎµÎ¯Î½Î±Î¹ Î³Î±Î»Î»Î¹ÎºÎ®, Î±Î»Î»Î¬ ÎµÎ¯Î½Î±Î¹ Î· Î•Î»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ®.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

"Î'Î³Î±Ï€Î·Ï„Î­ tac, Î¾Î­Ï�Ï‰ Pantages Î¼ÎµÏ�Î¹ÎºÎ­Ï‚ Ï†Î¿Ï�Î­Ï‚ ÏƒÏ…Î³Ï‡Î­ÎµÏ„Î±Î¹ Î¼Îµ Ï„Î¿ Î½Î± ÎµÎ¯Î½Î±Î¹ Î³Î±Î»Î»Î¹ÎºÎ®, Î±Î»Î»Î¬ ÎµÎ¯Î½Î±Î¹ Î· Î•Î»Î»Î·Î½Î¹ÎºÎ®." Yikes! I wish I had Gandalf the Grey or Elrond the Half Elven to translate this for me. Looks like it came from Middle Earth! 

Or is it Cyrillic? 

David Meashey


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## Jim Schulz (Aug 10, 2009)

As they say: "It's all Greek to me."


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Matt Z on 13 Oct 2010 04:40 PM 
Hey Tac, that sounds like it would work pretty well if you had a flat track. I've got some grades to overcome on my layouts so it almost seems like I'd need a separate control for the throttle? 

Matt,
I have a 10%(!) grade on my layout and run my 2-cylinder Shay up and down without problems. I can safely push a 10lbs train up the hill and guide it down. No need to install 2 servos. The specific design of the Accucraft locos with piston valves does not require throttle control, as the reverser valve does the same job. One of these days I'll post a video.

Regards


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## bigsteam (Mar 6, 2008)

If Pantages keeps that up the TSA will put him on the "no fly list." 

John


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

That would be funny John if it wasn't so scary.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By bigsteam on 14 Oct 2010 09:34 PM 
If Pantages keeps that up the TSA will put him on the "no fly list." 

John 
So who cares? I don't know why anybody who lives in BC would want to go anyplace else. I mean, BC + BIG Trains + small trains + steam........?

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 14 Oct 2010 08:15 PM 
Posted By Matt Z on 13 Oct 2010 04:40 PM 
Hey Tac, that sounds like it would work pretty well if you had a flat track. I've got some grades to overcome on my layouts so it almost seems like I'd need a separate control for the throttle? 

Matt,
I have a 10%(!) grade on my layout and run my 2-cylinder Shay up and down without problems. I can safely push a 10lbs train up the hill and guide it down. No need to install 2 servos. The specific design of the Accucraft locos with piston valves does not require throttle control, as the reverser valve does the same job. One of these days I'll post a video.

Regards


Henner - I have to agree with you. The actual design of the Shay, with its indirect drive, means that it cannot be 'driven' downhill by the load behind it, unlike a rod-driven loco where all the drive is linear. Like I said, mine happily pulls large consists [by my standards, that is, a thirty-pound train is quite big enough], on main131's tricky and sneaky track with absolutely no effort - on a constant throttle setting, too.

tac
www.ovgrs.org
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## steamtom1 (Jan 2, 2008)

IMHO, the only reason you need RC in any Shay is to blow your Weltyk Whistle...


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