# Shorts on Turnouts



## StanleyAmes (Jan 3, 2008)

Several years back I remember discussions on locomotives whose pickup skates were causing a short of turnouts as they went through the frog and the edge of the skate was touching the rail of the diverging track.

We were having a discussing about this and I cannot remember the offending turnouts.

Does anyone remember which turnouts had this problem?

Thanks

Stan Ames


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

Shorts on Turnouts 

They'll dry faster on a clothesline. 

JackM 

sorry


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

LGB turnouts with some USA Trains engines.


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## Robbie Hanson (Jan 4, 2008)

MTH steam locos have the same issue on LGB turnouts--the sliders appear to be too wide and touch the opposing rail. This typically results in frying of the internal circuit board.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

I had the shorting issue with an LGB loco that has pickup shoes. I was running the loco over a #6 Sunset Valley switch. However, it wasn't the brand, any #6 switch would have caused the issue. I removed the pickup shoes and the LGB still runs great.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I had that problem with USAT engines on LGB turnouts. I solved the problem by bending the slider up a little bit. Instead of a 90 degree angle it is now more like 85 degrees.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Depends on the skates, since some are wider. 

MTH usually have a lot of problems. 

USAT has had 2 different widths, the newer ones are narrower. 

Aristo turnoouts, the early wide radius ones could be a problem, but they later raised the plastic frog so the skate hit the plastic and not the rails, but newer frogs are all level and the shorting problem is back. 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

USA shoes on the LGB 18xxx series switch will definitely drop in the frog and damage the plastic. I just helped a friend with this last week. 

Fix is to remove the USA shoes and not use them, or install wider LGB shoes. 
Since both sides of the shoe dropped into the frog, I determined that bending the shoe would not completely fix the problem in this case. 

Symptom was the engine would jump when going over the frog.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, the frogs on LGB are pretty deep and wide, the "Grand Canyon" syndrome.... a properly gauged and designed frog has no such issues. Those are precious few in our hobby. 

Greg


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

This (again) brings up the question "Why shoes?" I'm not going to push battery power here but when my LGB mogul was converted, the shoes were removed as not only non-prototypical but also potentially troublesome over turnouts! Now, why not make the pilot wheels and the tender wheels power pickups as well? With the potential of ten (five on one side) more points of contact, one would think that would be a good trade off! No more shorts, no more unsightly shoes, better conductivity....what's not to like?


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Shoes are very important for us track powered runners. 

The shoes do knock off debris on the rails. 

You could just always drag a track cleaning car on a train, but shoes definately help.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Shoes are not important all all to this track powered runner. 

I cannot agree with the "we" generalization Dan (meaning for the whole community). 

Aristo trains run just fine with no skates (when the power brick is assembled properly!!) Same goes for Bachmann. 

I have stainless, no pickup problems. 

The skates provided a cleaning action and additional pickup, so LGB power pickup was great, even on oxidized track, or on a 2 axle brick. 

If you want to clear twigs, leaves, skates don't do it, get a sweeper car. 

Gummy stuff, skates just smear it. 

"beating" oxidation is their major contribution. 

Regards, Greg


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The only short problems I have had are LGB items on TrainLine 45 turn outs. Where the entire frog is plastic in LGB, TrainLine has metal of the diverging rail up to the back of the frog, and it is the backs of the metal wheels (locos, postal cars, lit cars) that will short at the back of the diverging rail between the two rails. Enlarging the photo on this page will show the area of issue: 

http://www.lgbstore.nl/product_info.php?cPath=27_131&products_id=5592 

Pre-1980 LGB wheels (the deeper ones) seem to be worse. To me, the fix will be a sliver of plastic on the stub end of the diverging rail.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

Hi Stan,

As I recall the comments (including mine) were primarily directed at LGB turnouts (my favorite turnouts). In virtually all cases I was able to rectify the situation without removing the shoes. Usually the shoes could be adjusted to where they would work. Some recommended painting, taping or grinding the points but I never did or had to. There were very few locos that would not work with my LGB turnouts. I sold the locos. I believe the locos were Bachmann 2-6-0's and 4-4-0's which had no shoes but the drivers were shorting out if my memory is correct.

The last USA locos I purchased (UP & MoPac PA-1's and PB-1's) came with replacement sets of shoes for use if problems were had with shorting out on turnouts.

Unlike some, I much prefer locos with shoes because I run primarily track power and from my perspective there cannot be too many track contacts. I also prefer deep flanges since even the real railroads had a lot of derailments. I also prefer to MU multi-locomotive units.

In my opinion, many have switched unnecessarily to batteries simply because they had too few track contacts (0-4-0's are perfect examples) - including locos where the carbon brushes failed to make contact with the drivers (which was not at all uncommon in my experience).

Anything that will reduce my problems is welcome on my layout.

Jerry


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

When I first started I ran track power. My first Engine was a NW-2. I would send my NW-2 out with it's calf with no cars as a track cleaner. It would make about 2 jerky trips around the loop and then run smooth. I used LGB 1600 switches. I do not remember a shorting problem. If I were running track power today. I would make adjustments in the engine sliders to cope with the Switches.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

At the totally track-powered, and totally turnout free Chicago Botanic, the policy regarding shoes is, if they're present, clean them; if they've fallen off, ignore them. Of course, I wear no unnecessary shoes


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