# Z21



## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Hi all,
Today i went to the local g scale shop and had a bit of a look/see and asked some questions about available dcc systems. The system suggested was the new z21 dcc control system made by fleischmann roco.
Basicly it is a dcc system which can be used for any scale and it comes with a wi fi router so you can either use ypur computer tblet or phone or a handthrottle to control ypur trains and layout. I was quite happy with the performance i saw specially at the price of $600 for the whole system ( if you ot a tablet/ computer/ phone). The app is free.
Has anybody got any expirience with this system?
Regards michael


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No experience. 

What was the cost to you? I have an NCE system that starts at 3 amps that comes with a throttle for just a $160, can up it to 5 amps for not much more. 

My system will let me add a wireless ap and a laptop, and then I have computer control, database, wireless throttles on any iPhone or Andriod device. 

My concern would be what the system costs and if it is "enough" for you now and in the future. 

My point is that there's many ways to go, and almost ALL the DCC manufacturers have these capabilities one way or the other. 

All that said, the Roco system just needs a booster added and away you go. 

Greg


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

hi greg,
The system costs about $400 and puts out about 10 amp @ variable voltage ( it can be used from z scale through to G - at least if the information from the local train shop is correct. I have seen him display n ho and G on a test track.
The main appeal is it is simple to install and uses components i already have, also everybody can come along and use trains on my layout using their phone or i pad as their throttle.
The other advantage is the system is designed to run on v220 i have seen some great system from the us however they run connected to v110 i am not sure how much would be involved to change this around...
In regards to the initial costs i prefer to buy something a bit later and buy something i will keep using even if in the moment it does plenty more than i need, but if i want it to do more i have it already and do not need to change things around i.e. Buyimg a bigger system.
The other dcc controller i liked was the massoth 10 amp one but it does not communicate with the open source software ( jmri) you can get for automatisation and controlling your trains via the i pad.
The list on the jmri site listed many dcc Controllers but i had trouble working out weather the controllers would be able to run g- scale.
Again i simply have a lot of catching up to do when it comes to model trains a lot has changed since the late 80 s.
Thank you very much for the feedback.

Cheers michael


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I looked at the manual and thought I saw 3 amps for the output but a booster can be added. Perhaps there is more than 1 model of the Z21? 
The manual I looked at had a price of 355 Euros which would be over $500. Original post had $600 for a price. 

Just do a google search for roco Z21


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yeah, you want to double check that output capability. 

I have not looked at the JMRI list, but I use NCE systems, which are supported by JMRI. Then I can use JMRI, the NCE throttles, and iPhone app or Android app. 

The JMRI compatibility was tops on my list. Funny that Massoth is not supported, but they have the distinction of being the most expensive available, and they do have computerized solutions, you just have to decide that cost is no object ha ha! 

I'd be digesting the manufacturer's data sheet, not going only by what the local guy tells you. 

By the way, you need 220v? 

Greg


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Yap i need 220 v as i am in australia... We run nominal 220 v same than europe...
Sorry for the confusion with the prices, the local shop sells the z21 system for just over $600 australian. i can order the system ex germany for around 300 euro probably cheaper as my parents can buy it for me and send it over...
After getting a rather unsatisfactory treatment at the local shop i probably keep buying ex us or europe anyway...
Today my new train arrived and now i need to wait for my throttle control replacement...
Anyhow i shall contact roco fleischmann and ask them about the out of the z 21 system if it is not strong enough i might go with the system you are using... After all jrmi runs under linux...
so long
Michael


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

And when selecting a system I would not go with less than 8 amps and 10 or more would be better for future expansion. 
You also need to be able to read back all registers from a programming track, something the older systems could never do with the handhelds, (MTS for instance).


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Of course there are some more modern decoders that will read back CV values by programming on the main, but I do agree that for now, a programming track is necessary. (But are there ANY modern systems that don't have one?) 

Greg


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Ok have read a bit more about the z21 system, it does only put out 3 amp but you can run up to 7 boosters on it.. So as long as i can mix and mtach boosters i am fine.... Will have to look into it


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

And what are the booster capabilities? if 5 amps or less I would be disappointed. 
Greg, MTS still can not read back unless you get the Massoth hand held on MTS III or the 55045 computer interface and it is limited to 28 speed steps with the Massoth add-on. 
If just LGB MTS, 14 speed steps only. Perhaps the new owner Marklin wants people to switch to what Marklin is selling for DCC.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Michael, note well: you can run 7 boosters, but most of these boosters will be individual blocks of track, unless the boosters SPECIFICALLY say they can be paralleled. Just keep that in mind when you are figuring out your current requirements. 5 amps in a power district (electrical section of track, isolated) is marginal for most people, you need a minimum of 8 as was previously mentioned. Just think it through for the future. It's not a negative, it's just not a positive on this system you are considering, i.e. most likely the stock output power is worthless. 

This just factors into the cost, for whatever priority it is in your decision. 

Thanks for the info Dan, very surprising that it's so hard to get an MTS system to read back, like programming in the dark. 

Greg


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Thanks again for the feedback...
My had starts spinning madly...
I had some more reading of dcc systems...
It appears that the z21 system was not designed for g scale - however i contacted the manufacturer about it...
In the meantime i had a closer look at the nec systems, it looks like i can get away with a 5 amp central box and a wireless router and simply buy a local transformer / power supply as it does not seem to be part of the central box.
This might be an easy way to try out dcc for less money...
Does nec do a starter set with a central box receiver and a basic throttle?
Regards
Michael


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I defer to Greg here as he has the system you are asking about, I have the Zimo and MTS systems. 
For decoders I have the zimo, MTS, and have programmed Massoth decoders as well.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

NCE not nec... I'd go to their web site http://www.ncedcc.com/ 

The 10 amp system has a wireless throttle (that can also be used wired), radio base station, command station and 10 amp booster. You add a power supply ($70 for a meanwell 11 amp 24 or 27 volt) and you are done. 

This is not a basic throttle, but their "Pro" throttle. They have several other throttles, simpler, lower cost, etc. wired and wireless. The system is full duplex radio at 900 MHz. 

It's the overwhelming choice for club layouts in all scales in the US, followed by Digitrax. 

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

On the East coast. I only see the older Aristo 27mhz trackside unit in use at all show G layouts and some still use power packs direct to track. 
Definately time to upgrade to show others what digital can do at shows. 

Reason for this is most likely to allow owners of just DC capable engines to be able to run, esp if they fear pulsed power of any kind destroying the LGB engine electronics.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

"It's the overwhelming choice for club layouts in all scales in the US, followed by Digitrax. " 

read what I said as advice... the OP is not asking advise about running at a show 

he also asked about DCC, not something as pedestrian in capability as a trackside... 

Get a phone book... call 4 ho clubs, see what they use. 

we are talking DCC here, not what runs at show for a simple loop of track... 

I get shows.... going to set up our club layout at the Del Mar fairgrounds today... oh, it's also DCC and NCE... 

Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael you may want to have a look at the new Piko Digital system (built by Massoth). It's 5A output, which is enough for small to medium layouts, and has an excellent handheld (Massoth navigator) and the price is very reasonable for the quality you get. 
Greg, up here you only see NCE or digitrax on HO or smaller scales, don't think I've seen a single example of them in large scale, other than at a dealer. Since most people associate them with the small scales they usually go for purpose-built G scale stuff here like Zimo and Massoth that are more user-friendly.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dunno what you mean about purpose built stuff? NCE has a 10 amp system that comes at 20.1 volts can be adjusted higher, but CLEARLY G scale oriented, and more amps than the same Zimo or Massoth or LGB sets when the NCE first hit the market. 

User friendly? you gotta be kidding... First Zimo has just a few letters on the buttons, abbeviations of GERMAN words.... this is America... and a forum mostly of American people. 

The massoth system is maybe a little more user friendly, but nowhere near the NCE... too many menus and translated German commands... 

Really, have you ever tried an NCE system? Clear menus in english and high contrast black and white display that can be read in full sunlight, not some fruu-fruu color display that washes out in sunlight with cute pictures of trains. 

Greg


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

I just had feedback from the manufacturer for the z21 system out of Germany. 
the system can be used for G- Scale, however it has only 3 amp output. boosters are available but only at 3.2 amp and they csn not run parallel. 
Which makes the system rather weak for G considering my new loco needs minimum 2 amps withput sound, light or smoke. 

Thanks cugar rock rail i have seen the piko system but the massoth system does not work with the jmri software, i am not sure at this point wether i need it but i prefer to run something that has no precast limitations. 
I can get the nce system at 10 amp ex sydney for $600 
I have to have some more thinking to do but first i need a new throttle as my replacement one still has not arrived. I probably will built my own to safe some money.. Unless somebody got a spare one... 
So long 
Michael


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I built a MERG kit system from the UK. For about 100 pounds plus membership you can get a 10 amp booster, handset, command station and USB adapter. It works with JMRI as well easily. 

So far for the simple setup I have it runs great. I run a little lower 18 -20 volts but it can output 24 without problem by changing a couple components. 

It's not wireless like others but for the price it runs good.


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Thanx JP I looked them up the system seems great and reasonable priced, was it hard to put together i.e. Was it an all out do it yourself kit?
I have done some soldering and electronics works but no major projects, hence I am a bit cutious of big projects.
Kind regards michael


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Michael W on 30 Nov 2012 10:31 PM 

Thanks cugar rock rail i have seen the piko system but the massoth system does not work with the jmri software, i am not sure at this point wether i need it but i prefer to run something that has no precast limitations. 

Michael 

Michael:

Not working with JMRI is in no way a limitation; on the contrary, needing JMRI is a clear indication of limitation. As far as I know, there are no JMRI functions that would enhance the Massoth DiMAX system in the slightest way. 

Mohammed

http://www.massothusa.com/


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

It was pretty simple to put together. It requires a lot of soldering. You get the pc-boards and the components. They provide good instructions for how to assemble the kit, where each part goes, orientations, etc. 

It can be compared to a heath-kit where they provide everything needed. With the plus side of not have to do wiring among components since it is on pc boards. 

For the handset, a very fine tip for the solder iron, and fine solder ~.015" diamater or .010. Also a good magnifying glass is needed since it has surface mount components. 

Other than the handset, the rest is easy, just takes time, patience and following the instructions exactly. 

JP


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mdebba, you have to be correct in your statement "as far as I know".... unfortunately as far as you know is not very far, clearly you know extremely little about JMRI. 

I suggest you learn about it, would only take 10 minutes of reading to see what you clearly do not understand of JMRI's capabilities. 

Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 01 Dec 2012 11:18 PM 
Mdebba, you have to be correct in your statement "as far as I know".... unfortunately as far as you know is not very far, clearly you know extremely little about JMRI. 

I suggest you learn about it, would only take 10 minutes of reading to see what you clearly do not understand of JMRI's capabilities. 

Greg Greg: 


(1) *You need to learn some civility; address the content and not the person.

*(2) Here is your opportunity to do so. Since you claim to know so much more than I do, why don't dazzle the forum with your vast knowledge and tell me how JMRI could possibly enhance a Massoth sytem, be specific, stick to the facts, and no B.S. (BTW: I consider the ability to control trains by using Ipods and similar devices to be a fad, not an enhancement).

Respectfully

Mohammed

http://www.massothusa.com/


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

JMRI can enhance ANY DCC system, with the many features it has, beyond just the DCC programming aspect, the ability to work with many different decoders and their programming quirks (like extensions on the NMRA standard), but inventory, data base, automation, testing, DCC packet inspection. (Any rational person will see that from the features I listed above)

I'm not going to do your work for you.... I'm just really tired of you offering "information" when you have none. If you don't understand what JMRI is and what it can do, then just be quiet, instead of misleading people that it could not possibly enhance your beloved Massoth junk.... 

(if you would ask for information, and not always spew that Massoth is the end all to DCC then maybe you would not invite such retorts... it's beyond being ignorant of the information, it is your continual biased and misleading information... I can back up what I say with facts, see my first sentence, all you can do is call names and do putdowns of the "opposition")

10 minutes of your time would have given you a taste of the product and let you give a helpful comment on JMRI

But, no, because it's not supported by Massoth, all you can think of is to say is a putdown of it with some convoluted and erroneous logic how Massoth is better because it does not NEED JMRI. 

So, since this is a forum, when you come out with BS, I will come back with TRUE information. 

Since you are the only person spewing this, I have to retort to you... not personal, just countering misinformation.

Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 Dec 2012 11:38 AM 
JMRI can enhance ANY DCC system, with the many features it has, beyond just the DCC programming aspect, the ability to work with many different decoders and their programming quirks (like extensions on the NMRA standard), but inventory, data base, automation, testing, DCC packet inspection. (Any rational person will see that from the features I listed above)

I'm not going to do your work for you.... I'm just really tired of you offering "information" when you have none. If you don't understand what JMRI is and what it can do, then just be quiet, instead of misleading people that it could not possibly enhance your beloved Massoth junk.... 

(if you would ask for information, and not always spew that Massoth is the end all to DCC then maybe you would not invite such retorts... it's beyond being ignorant of the information, it is your continual biased and misleading information... I can back up what I say with facts, see my first sentence, all you can do is call names and do putdowns of the "opposition")

10 minutes of your time would have given you a taste of the product and let you give a helpful comment on JMRI

But, no, because it's not supported by Massoth, all you can think of is to say is a putdown of it with some convoluted and erroneous logic how Massoth is better because it does not NEED JMRI. 

So, since this is a forum, when you come out with BS, I will come back with TRUE information. 

Since you are the only person spewing this, I have to retort to you... not personal, just countering misinformation.



Greg 



Very informative, very civil, and non-responsive as usual!!! 

Mohammed


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

I am very new to DCC, having had built the MERG system about 8 months ago. JMRI for me was extremely important, since i can do the whole programming of an engine, seeing all the functions names and information n what each one does, more so than a little cheat sheet that comes with decoders. Being able to do all the settings, and just clicking 1 button to program is invaluable to me. 

Also the automation that is available is great. I want to do a layout similar to the old Lionel displays with multiple trains running on the same track at the same time. JMRI allows to do that without all the relay-logic for DC, and programming by using a mouse and large screen. 

PS. For MERG, JMRI 2.99 and newer runs. Look at the Test versions to get the latest and greatest.

JP


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By JPCaputo on 02 Dec 2012 03:58 PM 
I am very new to DCC, having had built the MERG system about 8 months ago. JMRI for me was extremely important, since i can do the whole programming of an engine, seeing all the functions names and information n what each one does, more so than a little cheat sheet that comes with decoders. Being able to do all the settings, and just clicking 1 button to program is invaluable to me. 

Also the automation that is available is great. I want to do a layout similar to the old Lionel displays with multiple trains running on the same track at the same time. JMRI allows to do that without all the relay-logic for DC, and programming by using a mouse and large screen. 

PS. For MERG, JMRI 2.99 and newer runs. Look at the Test versions to get the latest and greatest.

JP 


JP 
I have no doublt that JMRI can play a significant role for some DCC systems, what you built is one such system. JMRI, however, adds little or nothing to fully developed systems such as Massoth's. There is not much that JMRI can do that Massoth does not do well already, with the exception of 2 things Greg mentioned: inventory and database. Massoth does not do and has no plan to do either.

Mohammed
http://www.massothusa.com/


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Mohammed, 

I just priced out the Massoth systems. Both the 8.3 and 12 amp systems that include handheld, base and booster are roughly around $1500. 

The system I built cost me about $150 including power supply since I made some of my own boards and have a well stocked electronics junk box. 

If I want to I can add a couple wireless can bus adapters and battery pack to have a wireless handset. This would set me back about an additional $150. However I have computers and android devices so I don't need to spend that additional $. 

For the over $1k difference I can get a couple Ruby live steamers.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By JPCaputo on 02 Dec 2012 05:05 PM 
Mohammed, 

I just priced out the Massoth systems. Both the 8.3 and 12 amp systems that include handheld, base and booster are roughly around $1500. 

The system I built cost me about $150 including power supply since I made some of my own boards and have a well stocked electronics junk box. 

If I want to I can add a couple wireless can bus adapters and battery pack to have a wireless handset. This would set me back about an additional $150. However I have computers and android devices so I don't need to spend that additional $. 

For the over $1k difference I can get a couple Ruby live steamers. 
Jp: I think it is great that you can build your own DCC system, many people can't or won't. For some of those, a Massoth system is a great option.

Mohammed


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

There are other DIY systems besides MERG, there is a German system as well, even fancier and more full featured, but it is tougher to build, and most of the help is in German. Otherwise I would have gone with that system. 

I understand that there are people who don't want to build their own system, but being in the more time than money situation, it is a great way. 

Also I understand that there are many DCC systems for a range of budgets from many manufacturers including Bachmann, Digitrax, NCE, Fleischmann, Massoth, and more. Each have their own quirks, limitations and workarounds from what I have read and understand. 

Mohammad, remember that not everyone has the deep deep pockets to afford the Massoth system. Some people prefer to trade off "full featured" for computer control as a workaround since they already have a computer. 

JP


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

JP: I do not expect every to buy one, but that won't stop me from telling everyone about it. 

Mohammed


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Mike W, 

If you would like more info on MERG, I'll be glad to help you out and answer any questions. I an not familiar with other systems so Greg and everyone else can chime in. The NCE system seems to have be about the best bang for buck ratio without being a kit. 

JP


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

For DIY DCC check out http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12365


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Ok there guys. I appreciate the feedback and information. 
At this stage I need some time to do a bit more research on my own to define more clearly what I might need. The main problem for me is at this stage that I do not know preceisely what that will be. The main idea is to have a functioning goods transport system running over the railway. Coal gets"mined" and than transported from a mining tunnel into the mainline and loaded into coal hoppers and brought into a smeltery. ( an underground conveyer moves the coal back into the mine) this part is supposed to run mostly automated but also needs huge conversions for auto unlading hoppers, conveyerbelts and lifts. I have no idea at this stage how this can be incooperated into dcc - hence i did like an open source system. I might end up using something completly different for the automation as i said i know nearly nothing about dcc, when i last had an ho scle layout dcc was something people thought might be possible...
Another important point is that the expensive part of a dcc system is the cab/ throttle, but as i already have an ipad with which i can control any other electronic gadget in the house it struck me as wasteful to spend this extra money ( i read about throttle vs touchscreen deveices) 
I rather spend it on extra track and trains at this stage.
Last but not least I know that massoth/ piko produces a good system but it is also very expensive over here the system would exceed $2000 all up if I go with the geniune massoth deal. i can simply not justify this expense if I am not sure it will do everyhing I need it to do.
The nce system probably is the best bet if I go with a ready to roll option but the merg system looks very appealing.
It has a thottle for the ease of control but kicks in with about 150 bucks but has full jrmi compability.
As i mentined i need some extra time to think...
Thank you again for all the information and feedback
Kind regards michael.


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Michael, 

I am a little late responding to this thread. My son wanted Roco trains for Christmas, so the Z21 made perfect sense. I plan to borrow it for my basement LGB layout. 

I haven't read the manual, but connecting three Heller 2x7.5A boosters should not be difficult. This will give me 45+ Amps. 

After spending the last few days running Roco HO trains, I am embarrassed by my LGB. This Roco stuff is a far cry from the Tyco junk I had as a kid. Here is a quick taste of their product offerings aside from the innovative Z21 central station - BR10 steam locomotive with pulsed smoke from funnel and cylinders, BR110 elok with operating pantographs, passenger coaches with controllable interior lights/tail lights and operating doors. (Passenger cars even have door closing sounds and a conductor's whistle!) Turnouts have quick connections for accessory decoders. Turnout decoders can be mounted under the roadbed of each turnout. It makes me wonder where the innovative spirit at LGB went. Perhaps they should consider a new technology partner? (By the way, Roco is using Zimo as an OEM.) 

You can download the Z21 application for your iPhone or iPad. Check it out. It's the perfect interface for children. You can even purchase 'cabs' for your specific locomotive. The list goes on and on... 

More later... 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Can you parallel the Heller booster outputs? Is there a place in the US to buy them? 

I'd like a 15 to 20 amp booster, I have some trains that run 10 amps now. 

Greg


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Greg, 

No need to parallel the outputs; Heller makes a 1x15A booster. Check his site. 
http://www.heller-modellbahn.de/Heller Elektronik.htm 

I don't think he sells through anyone in the USA. You'll need to go to Germany if you want one. 

For those interested in the stated specifications of the Z21, the manual for the Z21 states the maximum input voltage is 24V. Maximum output voltage is 1V less than the input voltage. Maximum current output is still on the low end for largescale (3A). There is no comment as to whether the maximum output current becomes de-rated when running higher track voltage. Specification simply states "12-24V, 3A."

Best regards, 
Bob


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Regarding the "fad" of using a tablet or phone, I think this is more likely to be the future: 

- Free-riding on the huge manufacturing economics of devices built by the tens of millions. 
- In most cases consumers already own components of a system (PC, tablet, WiFi ...) 
- Distribution cost reduced / eliminated, with no hardware to ship, inventory ... 
- Lower entry cost to the hobby, ability to share with new people, family ... 
- Able to blend other capability, such as video for an "engineer's eye view" back to the hand-held.


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Mhh thank you for this information, I did contact roco direct, the feedback was that the z21 system only works with roco boosters, this might however be only roco protecting their market, after all they want to sell their product.

The boosters look great, just be aware that germany uses 220 v 50 hz main power, so you might need a voltage converter.
I am also not sure if the frequency will have any effect.

Kind regards 
Michael


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## rwbrashear (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi Michael, 

The Roco Z21 and Roco boosters have separate switching power supplies. Simply purchase a replacement which meets the input requirements for the Z21. As a reminder, using non-Roco devices with your Roco DCC equipment voids the warranty. 

Regarding the booster, there are plenty of 'hack sites' which provide the booster pin-outs. From some quick research, it appears pins #1 and #4 of the 'Booster Out' connection provide the unamplified DCC signal. Feed this to a third party DCC booster (Heller/NCE) and you are in business. 

Along the same vein, here is a thread where folks are purchasing Roco starter set boosters and using them for SPROG DCC. In many cases, they are getting 2A/3A boosters for less than 20 euros. 
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/sprog-dcc/message/1323 

Have fun! 

Best regards, 
Bob


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## High Ball John (Jan 26, 2009)

Posted By mbendebba on 01 Dec 2012 10:42 AM 
Michael:

Not working with JMRI is in no way a limitation; on the contrary, needing JMRI is a clear indication of limitation. As far as I know, there are no JMRI functions that would enhance the Massoth DiMAX system in the slightest way. 

Mohammed



Sorry but this complete nonsence cannot remain unchalanged.

If Massoth don't need JMRI because it doesn't add anything then why DO they needed iTrain, Pahasoft, RR&Co, Railware, Rocrail, stellwerk, Win-Digipet and Kam all of which IS supported by Massoth.

How do you do automatic control without resorting to one of the software offerings?


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Intrestingly enough, the massoth system was one of the system I was intrested in, however the price and the fact that it does not support jmri was what made me decide against it.

I use open source solution wherever I can, my pc runs linux, all software with few examptions are open source, now that open source comes also into hardware I will continue the trend My final decision was for MERG, once i got enouch rolling stock and track it will be the way for me to go.

I am not saying it is the best or only correct way but it looks like the right decision for me. It is reasonable priced, I can build and repair it myself, the electronic components add up in cents and it is a great community behind it.

Kind regards
Michael


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Michael W on 01 Jan 2013 03:27 AM 
Intrestingly enough, the massoth system was one of the system I was intrested in, however the price and the fact that it does not support jmri was what made me decide against it. I use open source solution wherever I can, my pc runs linux, all software with few examptions are open source, now that open source comes also into hardware I will continue the trend My final decision was for MERG, once i got enouch rolling stock and track it will be the way for me to go. I am not saying it is the best or only correct way but it looks like the right decision for me. It is reasonable priced, I can build and repair it myself, the electronic components add up in cents and it is a great community behind it. Kind regards Michael 

Michael: 
Different strokes for different folks; Keeps us informed on your progress. Give RocRail a try!

Regards,

Mohammed


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By High Ball John on 31 Dec 2012 04:23 PM 
Posted By mbendebba on 01 Dec 2012 10:42 AM 
Michael:

Not working with JMRI is in no way a limitation; on the contrary, needing JMRI is a clear indication of limitation. As far as I know, there are no JMRI functions that would enhance the Massoth DiMAX system in the slightest way. 

Mohammed



Sorry but this complete nonsence cannot remain unchalanged.

If Massoth don't need JMRI because it doesn't add anything then why DO they needed iTrain, Pahasoft, RR&Co, Railware, Rocrail, stellwerk, Win-Digipet and Kam all of which IS supported by Massoth.

How do you do automatic control without resorting to one of the software offerings?






Hi Ball: 
Challenge away, but keep the nonsense out.!!!

What do you mean by automatic control? if you mean PC control of a layout than you are correct, one these software products would be necessary. However, most people that own a Massoth Dimax Digital system are not interested in PC control of their layout, they prefer hand-on, manual, control.

Massoth does offer it own kind of automatic control. With the help track sensors, track contacts, magnets a Massoth owner can use his controller, Massoth Navigator, to program and store upto 30 automatic actions; most Massoth owner find that kind of automation more than adequate.

You have obviously noticed that JMRI is not one of the software products listed on the Massoth website whereas RocRail, an open source product, is. I will leave it at that.


Mohammed


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Enough, already! You both know the rules! (Note to other readers--offending posts have been deleted)

Later, 

K


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