# Whats been Ur experience with CFL bulbs ???



## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Whats been Ur experience with these CFL screw-in replacement light bulbs ??? 
I've had lots of the tubular Florescent lamps in service around here, and in my 
shop for years and the experience with them has been pretty good... So when 
they started coming out with the screw-in replacements for the trusty old 60 watt 
incandescent bulb, I started to slowly replace them with the new guys, any light 
that gets used a lot got replaced, have about 30 of them in service now... Unlike 
the long tubular type, these things haven't been entirely satisfactory... They seem 
to be easier on the electric bill, always a good thing, their 13-14 watt replacement 
for a std 60 don't give as much light as a 60, I can live with that, but what is upsetting 
me is the failure rate of these things, in fact its looking a lot like they won't last any 
longer than Ur average incandecent bulb !!! The claimed longevity of these things 
seems to me to be pure BS, I thought at first it was just a bad bulb or 2, but the replacing 
has continued !!! Hey, I'm for green an all that, but not when its gonna bankrupt the 
household operating kitty... What's been Ur experience with these things ???? 
Paul R...


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

The first (early) CFL's that I bought are lasting a long time. The more recent ones die about as quickly as the recent incandescents. Years ago, GE figured out that if a light bulb lasts for many years, you don't buy more of them so they deliberately changed the design to have them burn out after a certain number of hours. The same philosophy has now been applied to the CFLs.


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## John Allman (Jan 2, 2008)

But wait, there's more! 

You get the benefit of overpaying for twisty lightbulbs! And at no extra charge, you can poison yourself with mercury! A genuine twofer! 

There ought to be a law....oh, rats. There is.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Advance to the Rear!


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Ur. 
Urrrrrrrrrrrrr.. 

Scot


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

They seem to be working well for me. I don't like the quality of the light as well, meaning the color temp., but they seem to last a lot longer--I have yet to have a compact flourescent burn out, for example, and it's been a couple years now. They run much cooler, which is nice, but they tend to be bigger, which is less nice. The energy saving is great. I know this will not be a popular point here, but if everyone switched to CFL,s the energy savings nationally would be extraordinary. Increased efficiency is generally a good thing 

So I'd say my experience is generally favorable, but mixed. Maybe when they start to go, I will find the replacements less reliable. I don't know


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

My experience is OK, sometimes: 
*I use both in my kitchen. 
*Some of my CFL bulbs have outlasted the incandescent bulbs--but--some have not. 
*They come in differing colors. The "warmest" colored of them still have a slight green cast which I find creepy. The worst can make the house's front look like a prison yard. 
*The shortest of them is longer than an incandescent, so squeezing one with a photocell adaptor into a porch lantern had to be called off. 
*They may use less current and this is good. It means that they are "green"---But the local ACE store says that I have to specially dispose of them, because of their poisonous content......rather less green 
*Instead of being made in North America, they can be made instead in a country with zero US EPA controls--that way we don't have to see the smoke. 
*Made off shore in a country to which we can send our dollars on a one way trip. Good thinking, congress


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I have 4 that are on 24 hrs a day. They ave lasted a long long time. When one failed there was the typical smell of hot Transformer. The other one started diming and geting that swriling gas look in the bulb 
i have them in my out door yard lights...Thier biggest enemy is Hail during rain storms.


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

I have them in almost every fixture in my house that will accept them. I've been using them almost since they first came on the mass market, and haven't replaced one yet. The color temp doesn't bother me at all and I like the idea that I'm using about a quarter of the power that I would with incandescents. 

One thing to keep in mind is that the lifespan of all types of light bulbs is shorten by on/off cycling, but the effect is worse on fluorescents than it is on incandescents, so if you are getting a short life out of your CFLs in may be due to a high number of cycles.


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

You guys do know that the more electricity that is saved, the more it will cost you. 
The power companies have to keep their revenues up at today's costs. 
If your bill gets lower, sooner or later there will be an energy price hike. 
Our frikken electric company raises their rates twice a year to keep up with the use of energy saving appliances. 
A vicious circle. 
Oh, by the way, if everyone gets 50 MPG in their cars or runs electric cars, the petroleum companies will do the same. I can see gas at $10.00 a gallon once all cars reach 30 to 50 MPG or electric. 
Think about it.


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

i tried them out. 
by now i have them everywhere, where a light stays on 24h/day. 
where we switch once or twice a day i have mainly the long tubes, 
and where the light gets swiched various times a day, we use good old light bulbs.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

To make some of my incandescent bulbs last longer I buy 100- or 150-Watt bulbs and put a diode in series with the bulb. 

The diode cuts the 120-V AC current down to pulsed DC at about 1/2 power, thus the bulb is about 1/2 brightness (and a bit redder in color) so my 100-Watt bulb is equivalent to about a 50-Watt in brightness. 

The diode is a small self-adhesive button shaped device that you stick to the bottom of the bulb before it is screwed into the socket. They also come with a cardboard ring that is just barely larger than the screw base of the bulb... Since the button makes the bulb sit high in the socket, for safety, you fit the ring over the bottom to cover the possibly exposed metal screw part that might stick out above the socket part. 

I have one in my porch light and leave it on almost all the time. The last bulb lasted 5 years. I had to replace the diode (when the bulb finally went bad) since it was all corroded and would not stick to the new bulb. 

These diodes are available at various places, I think I got mine from MicroMark about 10 years ago, but I have seen them in some discount stores sometimes, and I am sure a Google search will find an online vendor. 

But, I think a CFL would be cheaper to operate, and maybe more ecconomical than the incandescent and diode combo in the long run, depending on the cost of the CFL in the future and how long they actually last. The diode trick will NOT work on a CFL, it may cause it to burn out immediately!


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

They don't put out as much light, and the worst thing is the horribly long turn on time, which gets worse with cold temperature. So as a porch light that stays on all the time, great (other than they look stupid if you have a clear fixture), but for a porch light that you need to turn on and see if someone is out there? They will be long gone by the time the darn thing turns on enough to see anything.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Our house is now almost 100% cfl bulbs. 
I have been using them for many years without any failures. Replacing the incandescents as they died. Which they did regularly. 
Recently a Federal Government program was implemented to replace all incandescent bulbs remaining for free. This we took advantage of. 
A couple got broken when fitting outdoors and the fitter was very careful when cleaning up the mess. 
Yes, they are not as bright and some of the older ones do take awhile to switch on.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Horrible! Honestly I'm replacing them about every month. I have to take them to work to dispose of with the rest of the Flourescent bulbs now because none of the transfer stations will take them. Simply NOT worth the extra cost. My mother got suckered into buying a bunch for a fund raiser that are brand name bulbs. I've also tried two other "brands" but neither lasted as long as the ones she brought with her. They do not fit into a LOT of fixtures as they are longer (bathroom lights come to mind) and are simply a gimmick in my mind at this point. I recently burned out a bulb in the garage which is the LONGEST run away from teh electrical panel. I cannot run two 4 foot flourescent fixtures out there as it will trip the breaker. I screwed a CFL inplace of one of the two incandescent bulbs with nothing else in the garage turned on and it tripped the breaker. No sir simply not worth the hassle or price. They are simply NOT saving ME any money at this point. 

Chas


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

I cannot run two 4 foot flourescent fixtures out there as it will trip the breaker. I screwed a CFL inplace of one of the two incandescent bulbs with nothing else in the garage turned on and it tripped the breaker.Sounds like you have a bad breaker. They don't last forever either. Bad breakers can also pose a fire hazard if they get stuck on. I'd replace it.


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

I won't use them. Period. They're ugly, they're hazardous waste, their light gives me a headache and (most grevious of all) they're going to be mandated by the d*mn politicians! Not me! I have a whole basement storeroom full of incandescents that I have been storing up. I figure I'll be well retired before I have to start using the d*mn things!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

D*() the cfl's; full speed ahead! 

They're just florescent lights. If you don't like florescent lights, you won't like them. Yea, there's a tiny bit of mercury, but we've been using florescent lights for decades. 

I have one in my close working lamp. I like 'cause it's bright, but doesn't make me hot.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm with you, Steve. When they reduce them down to 4.25 inches length, base included, I can may get one. (I will have to. It fits in with this forum: it is another way of being Railroaded.  ).


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dwight Ennis on 28 Apr 2010 06:54 AM 
I cannot run two 4 foot flourescent fixtures out there as it will trip the breaker. I screwed a CFL inplace of one of the two incandescent bulbs with nothing else in the garage turned on and it tripped the breaker.Sounds like you have a bad breaker. They don't last forever either. Bad breakers can also pose a fire hazard if they get stuck on. I'd replace it. 


Dwight, Thanks for the advice! I'll do that but I think it's been replced already? I know I replaced one and I can't remember which at this moment? 

Chas


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

I've been looking for the above-mentioned diode-lamp-base-button gizmos w/o success. 

If any national chain stores are carrying them, I'd like to know. Thanks


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## nkelsey (Jan 4, 2008)

Home Depot will take your old CFL, for free, just put them in a plastic bag and drop them at the box near the entrance/customer service counter.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

My biggest complaint is what they do to photographs, the color shift is terrible and nearly impossible to correct w/ software. 
I've not had any longevity issues, mine came from Costco. 

John


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Tom Leaton on 28 Apr 2010 09:19 AM 
I've been looking for the above-mentioned diode-lamp-base-button gizmos w/o success. 
If any national chain stores are carrying them, I'd like to know. Thanks 


Do a Google search for: "light bulb savers"... I found several hits. One was at: 

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/the-button-light-bulb-saver-p-22432.html 

Three for $9.71 (on sale).


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Thanks!


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

CFL's have a claimed lifetime of 10,000 hours, or just over a year. A 100 watt incandescent bulb has a lifetime of 600 to 1000 hours. The CFL liftetime is based on the degradation of the phosphors that provide the light. An incandescent bulb's failure mechanism is slow and steady evaporation of the filament onto the inner surface of the bulb. Eventually, the filament gets so thin that it cannot handle the stress of being turned on and it breaks open. 

The electronics in the lamp often don't last nearly as long as the rating of the bulb. If the bulb just gets too dim to use, it has died a natural death. If it just craps out, often with a crackle and pop, the electronics have died. 

As the manufacturers have made millions of these things, they've learned exactly how cheap they can make the parts to get them to work. In a newer bulb, EVERY part is running at stress levels that reduce the individual part lifetimes to compare with the bulb lifetime. There is no point in having good electronics left inside when the actual light emitter eventually dies. It just takes a little upset, either in the quality of a part or in the power provided, to push some of the parts over the edge into failure. 

CFL's vary in color temperature from type to type. They also take about 2 minutes to warm up enough to make their rated light output. A CFL will start at room temperature at about 1/4 of it's eventual light output. The also don't like being installed in enclosed fixtures. The air in the fixture gets too hot over time and it kills the electronics faster. They don't like dimmers or other electronic triac based controllers either. The distorted waveform provided by a dimmer will kill them very quickly. There are some CFL's that are "dimmer aware" and will work with dimmers but they are not the ones that you can find for $1 each at Costco. 

If you don't like them, then you had better stock up on incandescent bulbs. It is likely that soon, production of the regular bulbs will be forced to cease even though CFL's cannot be used in all sockets or fixtures. If you can't get incandescent bulbs to fit a fixture, then you might have to replace the fixture. 

It will be a while before CFL's are superseded by even more expensive but also more efficient LED bulbs so either learn to live with them or learn to live in the dark.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I've been more or less impressed with them, though I'm trying to consistently get ones that have a color temperature that I can tolerate. Right now, I use them in my outdoor fixtures which are on constantly. They last far, far longer than the incandescents I used to use. No argument there. For some stupid, unknown reason, they don't work in my darned garage door opener, so I get to keep replacing the incandescents every 3 months because the vibration of the opener are filament killers. 

As far as my interior lights go, many of my fixtures use decorative bulbs, so CFLs aren't going to work well. (That, and some are on dimmers, which CFLs don't do at all.) But I'll use them where I can, because it saves a few pennies here and there. 

Later, 

K


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## Matt Vogt (Jan 2, 2008)

Kevin, I think you will have more luck with your garage door opener with a 'rough service' bulb. They have more filament supports, and are made to last through vibration. 

The CFL's seem to work fine for me when I get the right color, but the light output during the winter takes a while to build up, as others have stated.


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## hawkeye2 (Jan 6, 2008)

I have two bedside lamps with two bulbs each and have no problems once I got used to the color. They come on quick and are nearly equivalent in output to the incadescents they replaced. I did put one in a three bulb ceiling fixture along with two regular bulbs and it burned out in a week. I'm sure it was the elecronics failing from the heat but I'm not ready to put three CFLs in there yet. I'm also not ready to experiment with putting them in a desk lamp or similar where they go in base up in an area with little or no air flow. As an aside I took some classes with an engineer from the GE bulb plant circa 1980 and they were developing an incandescent with electronics in the base that would last almost forever. It would have been increadably expensive but it was intended to be used in industry in locations where bulbs were almost inaccesable and therefore expensive to change. It worked as intended with the exception that it couldn't be installed verically base up as the heat destroyed the electronics so it never hit the market. 

The local GE bulb plant is closing down and a lot of good paying jobs with excelent benifits are being lost at a time when we need more jobs. (No furter comment, I don't want to get started!) 

I do like the CFL bulbs for their lower heat ouput and (suposedly) longer life however responsable disposal has been an issue. I will check Lowes to see if they have a recycle area for them. I am fortunate in that a neighbor has a supervisory position at tha landfill and I was just giving him the bulbs to dispose of. Any potential savings to the environment and on your electric bill can be quickly offset by having to transport the bulbs to a disposal area, in my case a 60+ mile round trip. I do agree that the electric companies will adjust their rates to offset decreased usage specially with industry using less electricity due to manufacturing going outside our borders. An example is the price of spark plugs as we made the transition form V8s to 4 cylinder cars and improved ignition systems which increased plug life. The cost of a bottom line spark plug doubled + overnight and that wasn't due to inflation. 

If you have followed my rambling this far here is your reward: Buy a tube of silicon dielectric grease, automotive tune up grease, light bulb grease, or whatever it is called at your local auto parts store and apply some to the threads of every bulb you install. You will never have a bulb sieze in it's socket and it will be as easy to remove as when you install it. If you don't overdo it it will not melt and run. I keep a tube in the kitchen drawer.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By nkelsey on 28 Apr 2010 09:53 AM 
Home Depot will take your old CFL, for free, just put them in a plastic bag and drop them at the box near the entrance/customer service counter. 


Really? Not the one in my area. At least to the best of my knowledge? 

Chas


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## Bob Pero (Jan 13, 2008)

Agree. We in Tampa had a big push to conserve water. We did, and now they are raising water rates because they cannot make their return on investment.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

We don't like them, have been buying regular bulbs and building up a big supply. Probably won't be able to get them in a couple of years. Now they are touting LED lightbulbs and they go for about $50 EACH.


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

Lite Bulbs 

If you run a bulb @ 80% voltage the bulb will last 30,000 hours.. 
Get a 145 volt bulb, run it @ 120 volts will last 30,000 hours.. 
Get a 240 volt bulb @ 2 times the wattage for the same lite output & that will fit in the fixture & they last 5 years or more.. 

Kevin, 

For your garage door opener put a 2 prong socket in the bulb socket, then hang a short cord with a bulb socket, put the bulb in that & it will last a very long time.. 

BulletBob


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

I just noticed this thread and haven't read all of the previous replies, so I apologize if something similar has been posted before. 

We have replaced every bulb with CFLs except those on dimmers. Our experience has been that some bulbs suffer from infant mortality and fail within the first few months. However, once they are mature, they seem to last indefinitely. 

A bulb outside the upstairs bathroom is many years old (more than 10 I think) and gets turned off-and-on very frequently (night-time bladder issues, as some of you may be familiar with).


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## pfdx (Jan 2, 2008)

I have been experimenting with CFL's at home and at work for about three years now. My current opinion is that the CFL bulbs do live up to the lifespan claims and energy savings. As far as rough service applications go as long as long as the bulb stays on and is well supported they do last. 

I do have a few tips that are not on the box. 

The first and most important is to "burn them in" for at least 24 hours before you install them in their final location. It gives the ballast and the bulb a chance to run at design temperature and current long enough to set the coating on the tube wall. This was suggested by a salesman at the supply house and I have had only 1 bulb fail out of 60+ fail after this process. 

Do not use them in motion lights or in short cycle applications. I have had a pair in a stairway light that recieves short on off cycles for over a year and they are still going strong. 

Handle them by the base and not the bulb. I don't intend to insult anyone but old habits die hard. Remember edisons terminology: "screw the electric chimney into the electric burner" 

Brand is everything. I have had the best luck with GE and Eiko, the worst with Feit. The color balance on the GE bulbs matches the old incandecent very well and they are consistant bulb to bulb. Eiko makes some big bulbs (43W) that will light up be spaces with very little draw. 

So far I have one bulb that has been on for almost 2 years, and 24+ floors that have been on a moving train for up to 2 years with no failures. 

The experiment continues... anyone tried a three way CFL yet?


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

I used to replace the old regular bulbs every couple of months, or so it seemed. About three years and some ago, in November, I broke down and forked over what seemed like an extortionate amount for a couple packs of 100 watt CFL's. Swapped out two or three of them right away; noticed, yes they did take a while to attain full brightness, but figured I could live with that. Electric bill came in; I noticed it was slightly lower than what I was expecting. More of the old line bulbs went, and got swapped out for CFL's. The next electric bill was *half* of what I expected. Since then, I've gradually changed over almost all the lights in the house to CFL's. I've only had one go bad, and I suspect that might be because I knocked it accidently. However, all my bulbs are uncovered...


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## Road Foreman (Jan 2, 2008)

pfdx, 

Good advice on the 24 hour burn-in.. 
Electrical instructor said to burn fluorescent ( tube type ) bulbs for 48 hours @ the first turn on.. 
About the three-way bulbs, been running some for over four years now, & no problems.. 

BulletBob


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pfdx on 01 Jun 2010 08:51 AM 
I have been experimenting with CFL's at home and at work for about three years now. My current opinion is that the CFL bulbs do live up to the lifespan claims and energy savings. As far as rough service applications go as long as long as the bulb stays on and is well supported they do last. 
I do have a few tips that are not on the box. 
The first and most important is to "burn them in" for at least 24 hours before you install them in their final location. It gives the ballast and the bulb a chance to run at design temperature and current long enough to set the coating on the tube wall. This was suggested by a salesman at the supply house and I have had only 1 bulb fail out of 60+ fail after this process. 
Do not use them in motion lights or in short cycle applications. I have had a pair in a stairway light that recieves short on off cycles for over a year and they are still going strong. 
Handle them by the base and not the bulb. I don't intend to insult anyone but old habits die hard. Remember edisons terminology: "screw the electric chimney into the electric burner" 
Brand is everything. I have had the best luck with GE and Eiko, the worst with Feit. The color balance on the GE bulbs matches the old incandecent very well and they are consistant bulb to bulb. Eiko makes some big bulbs (43W) that will light up be spaces with very little draw. 
So far I have one bulb that has been on for almost 2 years, and 24+ floors that have been on a moving train for up to 2 years with no failures. 
The experiment continues... anyone tried a three way CFL yet? 


I have a 3-way CFL that has been ON almost constantly for well over 6 years (maybe 8? my, my, my, how time flies!). Usually it is on the highest setting but sometimes I reduce it to the low setting; maybe if I was more diligent about it my electric bill might reflect my diligence. My living room is rather dark since the south windows have too much stuff displayed on tables in front of them to reach the curtain draw strings so they seldom get opened. So I keep that CFL floor stand lamp on all the time. I don't even shut it off at night, so no one knows when I am home or away or asleep. About the only time I turn it off is when I want to move the floor lamp to get to the display items behind it. Even after all this usage, it still takes it about 5 minutes to reach full brightness, even if I have only shut it off for a few minutes to move the lamp so I can adjust/change a display item. 

I just recently purchased a CFL outdoor flood lamp, but it will not fit the fixture. The ballast base is just a wee bit too big to let the base screw into the socket in the metal shroud/reflector... had to put it a standard light bulb. Not sure what I am going to do with that CFL now, as that outdoor fixture is the only place I use flood lamps.


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## redhunter54 (Dec 10, 2010)

They are not dependable in terms of life expected, and on occasion explode. My experience last weekend: 

About 30 years ago I installed a large military (Navy) spec. cast aluminum 
lamp (8 in. dia.) on my property to illuminate the pathway to the shore. 
It has operated since the late '70 in the same position utilizing a 300 
watt incandescent bulb up until about two years ago when I replaced this 
high wattage bulb with a large CFL that provided about the same luminance 
(3900) consuming only 65 watts. 
On Saturday 12/4/10 the CFL exploded tearing apart the cast fixture made 
of quarter 
inch cast aluminum and glass lens. If someone had been standing on the 
nearby stairs they could have been injured. 

I am fortunate because I have an available replacement lamp in storage, so 
you can see before and after explosion. 

Will I purchase more CFLs . . . . NO! I will only consider LEDs as an 
alternative to incandescent regardless of the current insane expense.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

I was excited to try some out our city provided for free. 

They lasted only about a month! That's it. The comparable incandescent under the same usage lasts about 2 years. So I'm not convinced they are the way of the future. 

I'm thinking LEDs will be the way to go. But I haven't seen a good one yet (for replacing incandescent). But they sure are great for model train usage.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The one in the attic has been on for a couple months strait, and has not failed, cannot say the same for the incandecents in that application, but then it is just "on". 

Unfortunately, in another couple years, we will have no choice in this matter.....


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## Daniel Peck (Mar 31, 2009)

Contains more mercruy than a flourencet tube.... Look into CFL clean up on the internet... Dot made in usa over sea cause it would cost 2x the amount to make here with EPA. LED is by far a cheaper operation bulb but the cost of the bulb right now is still high but them are coming down in price. Led but out no heat were the cfl does. Look at stop lights in NC they now only have to change the bulb out every 5 years with led now thats on 24/7 were the old light bulb was changed once a year. A signal guy here in town told my about this stop light deal. Makes sence.....


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

CFL bulbs are part of the global warming hoax. It is one the ways the left is forcing Americans to give up our freedom of choice and persuit of happiness given us in the Declaration of Independence for their persuit of global governing. But do not break one in your house, there is enough mercury in one to cause harm and get the EPA on your case. It can cost up to $2000 to clean up your house from the contamination. 
Ron


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

We've stocked up on a 10 year supply of regular bulbs. Soon, you will not be able to buy them. We hate the CFL things, UGLY light.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Municipalities and Railroads are finding a problem with LED lamps. Because LEDs do not produce heat like incandescents do, in areas where it snows, once covered by snow they will stay that way until the ambient air is warm enough, or the sun heats the housing enough, to melt the snow. 

As for CFL's, I have a few in my house; One in my living room is has been on almost continuously for about 5 years, only shutting off when there has been a power failure or if I have to move the lamp to access some things on a display shelf behind it. Another is in my bathroom, it has what I have found to be an extremely long delay before it comes on... I sometimes swat at the switch to turn the light on as I enter, and even though it has been in use for about 10 years, I still sometimes have the "gut" feeling that I need to reach for the light switch again because I think I missed it the first time because it is so slow to actually illuminate. 

So far, I have not found an LED type house lamp that I would want for general room lighting. Even though they are extremely bright to the eye when looking right at them, they just do not produce a light that reflects off of objects to be able to read a book from their light. I have a flashlight in my pocket that is bright enough to signal someone 2 miles away, but can't produce enough light to see in the engine compartment of a disabled car on the highway at night. I have always felt that this is because they produce white light by emitting light that is narrow bandwidths of red, green and blue. But the bandwidths of those colors are so narrow that if something does not reflect one or more of those exact color frequencies then it does not reflect enough to actually see the object. Recently I have seen some charts showing that the three bandwidths are very wide, but I still can't read a newspaper using only their illumination, so I don't know what the cause of that is.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

So, if I remember right, CFL's are not good for toys etc as they fade the paint. 

What about LEDs? 

I see there is an American company making LED lights to replace the CFLs and regul;ar bulbs. 

I have a toy room with wall to wall toy cars and toy trains. 

I'd like more light, but don't want to end up damaging stuff. 

Randy


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Fluorescents work by an electric current exciting a gas to give off ultraviolet light, which in turn causes a phosphor coating inside the glass tube to give off visible light. Some of the ultraviolet light still escapes and that is what usually causes paint to fade, just like the ultraviolet light from the sun does. Put something opaque to ultraviolet frequencies between the lamp and the objects in the room and let indirect light provide the illumination.


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## Ron Hill (Sep 25, 2008)

That is correct Jerry unless the new congress reverses the ban on incandescent bulbs. It is not promising. The chairman of the Energy Committee is one who supported the ban. He claims he understands but it is a wait and see. 100 watt bulbs go out in 2012, with the rest going out in 2014. Who knows how far the ban will go. One can only wonder when it will be claimed by these idiots that the headlights in our trains are damaging the planet. When you worship the creation rather than the creator, this is what you get! 
Ron


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## RRwannabe (Jan 20, 2009)

I have had nothing but good luck with them. Occasionally when there cold they have slight warm-up time. I have had some in for a few years now. My front porch light has been in a little over a year and is on 24/7 with no failure yet. My house is all electric (heat/AC, well, Hot water, stove, everything) my avg. savings I'd say are around $35 a month and my whole house is on CFL's. I didn't do it to be green or anything just save some. I'd say allot of the savings comes from turning the power strips off to my Tv's and etc. to eliminate parasitic loads. 

EDIT: My house basically conforms to everything George Schreyer no covers over my bulbs or dimmers, looks ghetto but they haven't died. I think LEDS would be best for home use, but last time I looked I saw some @45 dollars a bulb.


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

I have discovered that on my house (Built in 1963) the CFL's last only a little while and explode if used in original fixtures. Any newer fixtures I have installed in the last 10 years, they seem to work fine. 
But I still don't like them after the sizzling, smoking explosions. Don't trust them. 

BTW, those light saver buttons are now on the black market for $100.00. 
They must be out of production.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

These bulbs conserve quite a bit of energy. How Ever When you conserve quite a bit of eneergy the energy company tend to raise thier rates. 

JJ


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

In Europe, where incandescents have been banned by the EU, there's a guy in German that sells incandescents as "heat bulbs" instead of light bulbs, since 90% of their energy is dissapated as heat rather than light... 

I've used CFL's since we moved into our current residence, I've only had one go out and no problems. The amount of mercury in them is infintestimal compared to the amount that was in a mercury thermometer. Needless to say, I'm not one of the "safety uber alles" types, but I am all about saving money. 

Our water utility preached, pleaded, and demanded water conservation for years, and then when they got it, they sent out a letter saying that since we weren't using as much water, their costs weren't being covered, so they raised the rates. And, interestingly enough, our sewer "bill" is higher than our water bill, regardless of the fact that I couldn't possibly be using the sewer more than I'm using the water that goes down it. Unfortunately, that simple logic didn't get very far with the government employee that answered the phone when I called to explain that to them. They were also rather indignent that I refused to pay them for a "recycling" bin... 

Robert


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

Posted By rdamurphy on 24 Dec 2010 01:43 PM 
In Europe, where incandescents have been banned by the EU, there's a guy in German that sells incandescents as "heat bulbs" instead of light bulbs, since 90% of their energy is dissapated as heat rather than light... 

yes, and these heatballs are made in china or india (and look identical to 100 watt light bulbs) 

but - the empire already struck back! 
customs held back 50,000$ worth of "heatballs" under the pretense to test them, if they are safe to use. 
and it seems, that they test very slowly. 
the importer can't fullfill his contracts and has to pay goverment storage for the withheld goods. 
they starve him out of business.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Posted By rdamurphy on 24 Dec 2010 01:43 PM 
In Europe, where incandescents have been banned by the EU, there's a guy in German that sells incandescents as "heat bulbs" instead of light bulbs, since 90% of their energy is dissapated as heat rather than light... 

I've used CFL's since we moved into our current residence, I've only had one go out and no problems. The amount of mercury in them is infintestimal compared to the amount that was in a mercury thermometer. Needless to say, I'm not one of the "safety uber alles" types, but I am all about saving money. 

Our water utility preached, pleaded, and demanded water conservation for years, and then when they got it, they sent out a letter saying that since we weren't using as much water, their costs weren't being covered, so they raised the rates. And, interestingly enough, our sewer "bill" is higher than our water bill, regardless of the fact that I couldn't possibly be using the sewer more than I'm using the water that goes down it. Unfortunately, that simple logic didn't get very far with the government employee that answered the phone when I called to explain that to them. They were also rather indignent that I refused to pay them for a "recycling" bin... 

Robert 




City untilities operate on the premis that what goes in must come out.....By the power of 2


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Have about a half-dozen cfl bulbs. The newer ones produce a nicer light than the older ones, IMHO. If you break one, clean it up and keep your mouth shut. No point in letting the camel get its nose uder the tent. 

Your local Lowe's store will accept them for recycling.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Well...all you guys that don't like CFLs...you won. They're being dumped here in California. We're onto the next bulb type...the LED. You can now buy LED bulbs at Home Depot to put in your ceiling lights and lamps...for $30 each. Incandescent bulbs are very hard to find now...there are virtually none at my HD...only the little decorative ones for chandeliers are offered now. I have one lamp that has a three way switch...haven't been able to find a 50-100-150W bulb for it...and it's my primary reading lamp. 

Also, just read in Family Handyman (I think) that the next generation of lights will be produced without bulbs. They're to have LED arrays in them, permanently affixed...no socket. They're expected life span exceeds 30 years. 

Yeah right...how many of you have seen burnt out LEDs the stop lights?


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Over the weekend my wife called me upstairs because of a strange, hot electical type of smell. I was able to chase it down to a dark CFL. When I took it out the ceramic base (ballast) was too hot to touch and the area around the base where one of the tubes came out was brown. Now, these thing scare me. 

Had we left it in a little longer it might have caught on fire. 

Chuck


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

This is the way that most CFL's die. The electronics inside the base goes poof. Sometimes they don't totally burn up right away but eventually, Reddi-Kilowatt will get them with a pronounced crack and maybe lots of smoke. There is little chance of fire in the bulb itself as there isn't much in there that can sustain a fire. Your lamp may be another story....


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

As the press gets stronger to convert to lower cost LEDs, the quality of the diodes will go down resulting in total or partial failures of the lamp. Lamp manufacturers can save a few pennies by not using a socket. 

I've converted many of the 12 bulbs in my trailer to LED arrays. The best ones put out as much light as the bulbs IN ONE PREFERRED DIRECTION and run at 5% of the current but they cost over $20. The bulbs are still much better for general area lighting. The low current is very important to me because my trailer does not have a generator, I run dead loss on storage batteries, and lighting is the highest load I experience by far. 

For house lighting, I'm not convinced. The trailer is small, directed lighting works in may places, above a seating area or sink or such. In a home, the area to be covered is MUCH larger. Maybe we'll be providing subdued general lighting over a larger area and bright reading lights only where needed. In any event, expect to pay a lot more. 

BTW, the tree huggers don't seem to have caught on to the fact that SOME of these LEDs contain Arsenic (highly toxic) and Gallium (highly corrosive, especially to aluminum). Some of them are silicon nitride or gallium nitride. The LED itelf is encapsulated in plastic and the amount of nasty materials are small... but then again, the amount of mercury in a CFL is very small too.


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## baron67 (Jan 5, 2008)

Yep, my power company is advertising on tv that they are returning $30 million to customers. Also they are filing for a rate increase with the PUC. Sound funny? I have been using CFLs for some time. I have had a couple fail, break at the base. There is a transformer in the base hence the larger ceramic base, which causes some odor if it fails. I have 6 pot lights in my kitchen which had 150 w floods. I replaced them all with cfls rated at 23 w. That is a real cost savings. They have been in for 18 months and have had no replacements. I have them in the bath, foyer and ceiling fan fixtures. We use them at work in the coaches in the ceiling fans and vestibule lights. There are 10 ceiling fans and 4 vest lights in each of our 6 cars. The failures we have had are from viberation causing the ones in the ceiling fans to drop out and the ones in the vestibule lights to work lose. The regular bulbs have been banned in CA and I hear the feds are going to follow suit shortly. 

Jerry Barnes 
Plano, TX


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

I needed a pair of new bulbs for my security lights on my garage so I bought a pair of CFL "Flood Lights". These are apparently a regular CFL bulb (the spiral tube type) mounted inside a "flood-light" shaped envelope so it looks like the bulbs I needed to replace. 

My fixture is high and I am not steady on a ladder anymore so I also bought a long extenable stick that has a suction cup on the end (and a string to a tab on the suction cup to pull to make it release). 

The 1st problem was that the suction cup screws onto the end of the stick and in attempting to unscrew the old bulb the suction cup came off the end of the stick first. After several minutes trying to get the stick back on the suction cup, from 15 feet away, I realized I could just pull the string to get the suction cup to fall to the ground. I replaced the suction cup and drilled a cross hole through the base of the cup and the pole so I could insert a hitch pin to keep it from unscrewing again (unless the pin is removed!). 

Once the old bulb was out of the fixture I ran into the 2nd problem... the new bulb has some stippling on the surface of the floodlight envelope that I assume is to help spread the light over a larger area; unfortunately it also precludes the suction cup from gripping. So I went back to the hardware store to get the type of tip for the pole that grips the bulbs from the edges. It has a series of "fingers" with a long spring encircling all of them to cause the fingers to close together to grip the bulb edges. 

The 3rd problem was that the fingers and spring are so thick that there is no room for it to fit inside the weather shield/reflector of the light fixture when the bulb in being gripped by the fingers. I removed the spring and replaced it with a rubber band which, because it is much thinner, allows the bulb and fingers to slip into the weather shield/reflector of the fixture. 

The last straw was that, at the base of the bulb, between the threaded portion and the cone shaped glass envelope, the ceramic housing of the CFL transformer (or whatever is in there) is too large. It hits ("bottoms-out" on) the weather shield/reflector before the threaded portion of the bulb can reach the socket in the fixture. I could not get the CFL bulb to screw into the fixture at all. 

So, at $15.95 per CFL Floodlight bulb (times two) plus $12.95 for the suction cup extention pole (both in trip 1 to the store), $0.79 for the hitch pin to keep the suction cup from unscrewing from the pole (design flaw!) (trip 2 to the store), $9.95 for the spring loaded finger grips that replaces the suction cup on the pole (trip 3 to the store), $3.00 for a package of large rubber bands to replace the spring on the finger grippers (trip 4 to the store), whatever it cost for gas to drive to the hardware store FIVE times... Oh? What is that you say...what was the 5th trip; that last trip was to get 2 60-Watt incandencent bulbs, $3.59 per pair, to put in the fixture up on the garage wall. 

THREE HOURS LATER, I now have two new bulbs in my security lights, a long pole with both suction cup and gripper finger attachments, a bag of rubberbands and a couple of CFL Floodlights on the shelf.


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

and a couple of CFL Floodlights on the shelf. Ahhhh... the infinite nanny-wisdom of the 111th Congress!!


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

3 bucks for rubber bands? 

Greg


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 26 Jan 2011 04:32 PM 
3 bucks for rubber bands? 

Greg 


It was the only box with a rubber band of the circumference needed and it was a BIG box. 

If I could remember where I put the box, I'd be all set for rubber bands for the rest of my life.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll say! 

Yeah, the bases of these CFL's are often way too big to fit existing fixtures, some of them that have the "candelabra" base are huge! The stock bulbs and fixtures are small, that's why they used that type of base. Weird. 


Greg


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## George Schreyer (Jan 16, 2009)

It would be odd for a CFL to have a transformer in it. The device is all electronic and any kind of transformer would be too expensive. 

My local HD has incandescents in all sizes (in CA). They are not banned here. They ARE expensive though.


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## Madstang (Jan 4, 2008)

Could be wrong here but I believe that the turning on and off takes its toll on light bulbs. With the sudden surge but not sure about the CFLs'. 
Seems to me that when a light goes out is when you turn them on. 
Have a couple but have not realized any diff in cost or brightness...yet. 

Bubba


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

when these things were new down here, i put them whereever a normal bulb burnt out. 
meanwhile i got just one of them. (the one that is always switched on (save at blackouts) 
all those, that have to be switched once a day or more often, did not serve much longer than normal bulbs. (and are replaced by normal bulbs by now)


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah Kormsen!


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

used them to replace many bulbs 
not scientific in actually monitoring, but imho they dont last any longer as an incan 

i dont like the light at all except for the basement and storage rooms, and , outside lighting on the porch etc 

thanks tho for the tips on burn in and brands- 
i will continue to use them 

as for LEDs- 
havent dont this yet- 
the current leds seem very blue , bright, and harsh 
love the idea, and no heat, and will eventually try a few


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

I have noticed that my older CFL bulbs light as soon as they are switched on. The most recent group (from Sylvania, I think) have a pause of several seconds after the switch is thrown before they light. Not sure what the reason is for this change in performance. 

One more observation. I would think that appliance bulbs (for ovens and refrigerators) would have to stay with the Tungston filaments, 

Yours, 
David Meashey


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

They may be greenish in color ("going green"), and they may blow up, but at least they conserve scarce electrons, lest we someday run out of electrons. . .;=)


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## pfdx (Jan 2, 2008)

Reviving an old post.

It's been nearly three and a half years since I converted the house to CFL's. About 40 bulbs, and to date, three have failed. No catastrophic failures, they just didn't turn on. The majority of bulb I've purchased are GE 10W from Sam's Club and of which two have failed. The third was a candelabra base specialty bulb for a bathroom fixture, which reminded me of my previous post regarding brands. I have also added a 3 way bulb to the test, it's being used for a study desk and there have been no complaints for a year.

For a review at this time I would have no problems recommending CFL bulbs from specific manufacturers, but, i would stick with the sizes made in large quantities. The quality of the specialty bulbs are not yet at the same level as say the 10 or 13W sizes so I'd recommend sticking with incandescent for those locations.

So what am I replacing them with? LED's. The cost for LED's is high, but I have a one fixture I never could get a CFL in and a couple that are either left on for extended periods or very short cycles that I have installed LED bulbs in and the CFL's will be cascaded into other fixtures as they are needed. I really like the new LED bulbs as the light temperature is really good compared to the both the incandescent and the CFLS but the lumens per watt is lower. The ROI on LED from CFL sucks but from incandescent is astounding 40W to 2.5W is a big jump.

At this point I don't miss the incandescent in the reading light but I will miss my old C7 christmas tree lights.

So the experiment continues. 
@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## RailCat (Apr 10, 2009)

I have three of the Philips 60W equivalent LED bulbs in a ceiling fixture as an experiment. I like the brightness and the color of the light although I suspect I would be better off with an array of single bulb fixtures instead of one central one. The fixture is 14.5" diameter with a 2.5" gap around the circumference. I suspect these need ventilation as they do get hot to the touch. LEDs are not supposed to emit heat so I guess the heat is generated by current reduction circuitry in the base which looks like a heat sink. I have also noticed a slight humming noise from them. Background noise will generally cover the hum. 

I will not use fluorescent or halogen lighting due to fading from the UV radiation. UV has also been linked to cataracts. If I run out of incandescents, I will use the LEDs. 

Scott


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Its good to see my old post revived, might as well update my experience with these things while I'm at it... 
My CFLs continue to fail, but at a slower rate, guess the bad ones have been mostly culled out by now... 
I suppose I'll eventually try some of the LED types, but I'm certainly not going to rush into it, think we'll 
take a "wait & see" position on those, they may get better, and the prices will come down too... 
But sadly the only "winner" in all this will be the power company, they can raise the price of their power 
faster than we can save it.... "Get less, pay more", its 21st century America, right!! hehe
Paul R...


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

A few months ago I took my daughter to the franklin institute in Philly. They had a display where you could turn a crank to power: 

1. and incandescent bulb 
2. a CFL bulb 
3. an LED bulb. 

The amount of effort required to power the LED bulb was SO much less--it was astonishing. The CFL was easier than the incandescent to light, and much harder than the led, and the incandescent was surprisingly hard. The LED bulb was practically effortless. 

So that convinced me to try one of those 24 dollar 75 watt equivalent Phillips LED bulbs at Home Depot. It's really excellent for the most part. We have it in a floor lamp with a dimmer. There is a very slight delay before it comes on, but it comes to full--no warm-up. The color of the light is excellent--if you didn't know it was an LED, you'd never notice anything different. It gets surprisingly hot: not as hot as a 75 watt incandescent, but uncomfortable to touch at full intensity. It's supposed to last 20 years--I doubt that, but we'll see.


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## Tom Leaton (Apr 26, 2008)

Perhaps I pay more for each bulb than I used to. And perhaps the electric company has to deliver less power for my lights. Neverthless, they help me avoid the stigma of having low electric rates. And I don't have to make those difficult bulb type choices because congress does it for me. That's progress, eh?
P.S. 

I prefer the color temperature of incandescents.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't know if you guys covered this in the other 8 pages two years ago.... the CFL bulbs trashed my PowerLAN network. I was running ethernet-over-ac-wiring using Powerline units from Netgear and I found the network was getting lots of errors. I talked to the guys in Best Buy and they said: "Have you installed CFL bulbs?"

I had to switch to WiFi, which wasn't too bad except that my computer is old-ish and wouldn't support WiFi security properly - it had a bug. I had to install a completely new card in it.


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I've had good luck as far as life of the bulbs, but I like a bright light when I need light in the house. 

None of the CFL wattages give the brightness of a good old 100 watt bulb does. 

As for saving energy, I don't know if they really work or not. 

I was always told the CFL Tube lights used the most energy each time you turned them on. Leaving the CFL tube lights on all day was better than turning them on and off each time you left and entered the room. 

If these screw in bulbs are the same, I don't see where we were told to leave them on for the highest energy savings


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## CJGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

our home is strictly CFL's. I love them because in certain situations where a lamp calls out a 60 watt max bulb, you can now put in a 75 or even a 100 watt EQUIVALENT cfl. the beauty of being able to have soft white, bright white and daylight is also nice, for certain situations where true color, or comfort are important. The price sucks but I have several 4 or 5 year old cfl's that still light like their new and the newer ones seem to be just as robust but even smaller than their 1st generation counterparts. overall, worth the investment


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I will always need a small stockpile of incandescent bulbs, particularly small dia. bulbs as we have a good collection of older antique lamps that CFLs simply do not fit into and never will. Luckily these bulbs still seam to be easily attainable. 

CFLs have come along way since this thread started, Dimmable bulbs, better color quality, etc. but the talk around here is that even the CFL now is on the way out with LED lights being the eventual replacements, LEDs use even less power, dont generate any heat and will work for years (if you beleive the hype) but having seen LEDs in action I'm not comvinced yet, the color is horrible, we had a demostration room at work and I swear it made the room look like a morgue!But get ready, theres going to be a big marketing push in the coming years to replace your antiquated CFLs with bright (very) and shiny new LEDs.


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## jbwilcox (Jan 2, 2008)

I put them in our house 7 years ago when we moved in. We got about 175.00 in rebates f rom the electric company so the bulbs were basically free.

We have not had a single one of them fail yet.

John


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 21 May 2012 08:47 AM 
LED lights being the eventual replacements, LEDs use even less power, dont generate any heat and will work for years (if you beleive the hype) but having seen LEDs in action I'm not comvinced yet, the color is horrible, we had a demostration room at work and I swear it made the room look like a morgue!But get ready, theres going to be a big marketing push in the coming years to replace your antiquated CFLs with bright (very) and shiny new LEDs.



They do generate a surprising amount of heat when they get to the point of imitating a 75 watt bulb--see my of the Phillips LED bulb Home Depot sell. The color of the light is really excellent, and it dims perfectly. it has a very slight delay on start up, but otherwwise you;d never know, in a floor lamp, that it wasn't an incandescent. It got uncomfortably hot to the touch, especially at full power


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By lownote on 21 May 2012 09:04 AM 
Posted By vsmith on 21 May 2012 08:47 AM 
LED lights being the eventual replacements, LEDs use even less power, dont generate any heat and will work for years (if you beleive the hype) but having seen LEDs in action I'm not comvinced yet, the color is horrible, we had a demostration room at work and I swear it made the room look like a morgue!But get ready, theres going to be a big marketing push in the coming years to replace your antiquated CFLs with bright (very) and shiny new LEDs.



They do generate a surprising amount of heat when they get to the point of imitating a 75 watt bulb--see my of the Phillips LED bulb Home Depot sell. The color of the light is really excellent, and it dims perfectly. it has a very slight delay on start up, but otherwwise you;d never know, in a floor lamp, that it wasn't an incandescent. It got uncomfortably hot to the touch, especially at full power


Thats why I added that caviet "if you beleive the hype"


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