# New outdoor layout



## krogerssolar (Jan 8, 2009)

can anyone help me i am expanding my layout from a little lgb start kit I have some new track the give me a about a 20’ lead to a rail yard I wont to put in and I don’t know the size of the bigger loop that I have I am right now I am using brass track 

what is the best track to use right now in the mountain of Colorado close to telluride, CO as of right now there is 3 to 4 feet of snow and right now I have my track in storage is steel track better use in the rain and snow. I wont be going to batteries locos I use the TE system from Aristo-Craft I have found for me in the rocky ground I have I cant get the ground level. I have been looking at patio pavers or making about a 4 foot hi sawhorse support layout but then I have deer, elk, and bear’s that come in from time to time so I don’t know what is best 

my locos need to be level I have right now one FA unit D&RG one BNSF Warbonet Dash-9 and one LGB Amtrak P3 and one I gave my mom a sd-45

what would you guys suggest for me


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Big question! Could start fights







You see, some will say, "it can't be best if it's not hand-laid code 250..." or somesuch.


Since you're sticking to track power, I'd suggest Aristo's stainless to reduce, not eliminate, track cleaning. Some will now caution you about all the mods you'll have to make to this and that to ... but things do tend to work as the mfr ships them


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By Torby on 03/25/2009 10:32 AM
Big question! Could start fights







You see, some will say, "it can't be best if it's not hand-laid code 250..." or somesuch.


Since you're sticking to track power, I'd suggest Aristo's stainless to reduce, not eliminate, track cleaning. Some will now caution you about all the mods you'll have to make to this and that to ... but things do tend to work as the mfr ships them " align="absmiddle" border="0" />






Fights? Heck no, just differences in opinion: 

AML flex or otherwise. CODE 332 BRASS and get over the track cleaning paranoia. Brass is 23x more conductive than Stainless. Code 250 may be more prototypical however conductivity and minimizing voltage loss is even more important. 332 has more surface area to conduct. 


How's that for a provocative statement?

gg


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristo stainless is tough stuff and doesn't require much cleaning. You will need 8 foot diameter curves as a minimum (bigger is better) for the SD-45. 
You can use the pavers as a sub-base and then build it up with crush stone (around 1/4 - 3/8" size). 
You may want to consider using a ladder type system on the ground for your base and then build it up with stone. 
These threads may come in handy - 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/9/tpage/1/view/topic/postid/67108/Default.aspx#67108 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/9/postid/67108/view/topic/Default.aspx 

-Brian


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## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

Oh… My… BEARS???







LOL, as if the elk weren’t enough trouble all by them-not-so-little-'ol-selves! 

Okay, let’s deal with the elk and deer first, shall we? Elk and Deer haven’t any depth perception. The easiest way to deal with them is a five foot double fence. If you’re not in a subdivision that prohibits it, I’d suggest a welded wire that’s available at Home Depot. You can do the outer fence in the taller and the inner fence in a somewhat shorter (but not too much so) fence. Deer, though I’m not too sure about Elk, won’t enter an area like this.

Bears, on the other hand, are a fairly serious problem. About all that will deter them is an electric fence and a big dog. Bears hate both. If you don’t want the dog, go for the fence at least. Also, anything that puts out the least[/i] amount of fruit must not[/i] be used on the layout. Bears will destroy a fence (even electric) to get to the smallest amount of fruit. Also, keep your trash in the Garage. If you can’t stand the smell in there, then build an annex to your garage and make it _*stout*_.

Why do I know this? Other than the Elk, I have the same issues with my gardens. Dogs help tremendously with the bear problem. Goats help with the deer problem; however, this is a case where the cure is worse than the disorder. Oi, Vay! I could go on about Matilda the Hun and her happy band of barbarians all day! But I’ll spare you.









Oh yes, I almost forgot: and as for track issues; get yourself an LGB track maintenance engine (20670). Best money I ever spent!







There was one on the 'bay just a few days ago. I don't know if it's still up, but a dealer might have one in stock. I'm a proponent of brass track too.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Hear, Hear....

Added bonus, Code 332 brass when properly ballasted can handle the Bear, Goat, Deer and the dog standing on it all at once. 


To do this place a carrot and an apple on the track @ the stroke of midnight. 


I rest my case ! 

gg


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## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

Posted By GG on 03/25/2009 11:32 AM
Hear, Hear....

Added bonus, Code 332 brass when properly ballasted can handle the Bear, Goat, Deer and the dog standing on it all at once. 


To do this place a carrot and an apple on the track @ the stroke of midnight. 


I rest my case ! 

gg










Yes, this is most certainly true! I remember seeing an advertisement by LGB showing an Elephant standing on some track. They walked her over a layout constructed on their parking lot. It had switches and all! They walked her back and forth over the entire thing then ran trains over it all. It was an impressive display of the strength of their track. However, the Bear, Deer and Elk are known to tear up track and even plumbing when they’re curious or think there’s food or water present.

I don’t think that Lionel or Bachman track would hold up to the elephant test. The majority of the others would though. Problem is; we aren’t talking about the animals walking on the track. The issue is keeping them from destroying the rest of the layout. Like the buildings, plantings and the landscaping. 

Oh, there’s an idea: If you make tunnels; cut out a section of foam insulation to fit into the opening. This seals it up and prevents any little woodland friends from setting up house in there. It’s something they like to do. Just make sure the cover fits tightly around your track as well. A handle can be made with an ordinary drawer handle and long screws. Just use fender washers on the back of the screws so that they’ll hold on the foam.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Go with the SS track and forget about all those high dollar track cleaning cars (LGB) . SS requires less cleaning. Also this track is more stout to put up with walking on it either you or some animals. Use rail clamps when installing track, perferably the ones that attach directly to the rail. Remember Aristo recommends at least 8 ft diameter curve track for there SD45. Later RJD


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2009)

krogerssolar, 

i ignore, where you are from. 
if you are from north america, buy stainless steel, and railclamps. seems, that only the best and most expensive works there. 
if you are from somewhere else, just buy LGB track and use it like it came out of the factory.


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## San Juan (Jan 3, 2008)

Neat another southwestern Colorado layout.

Sounds like you're pretty close to us...maybe not by road, but you're more or less just over the mountains from us. We're in the San Juan National Forest, north east of Durango.

On our layout, we use Llagas Creek track. I never liked the European look of LGB track, and I wanted nickel silver rail. Llagas had narrow gauge style track and the rail we wanted.

Your snow sounds like ours, here's what we had back in late December:











As far as what track to use? Well since you have LGB now, the easiest would be to stick with it. But I'd stay away from it since LGB is brass rail. 

We had brass rail joiners and they didn't last one winter. They got badly tarnished and we lost electrical continuity at the rail joints. Since switching to stainless steel joiners, we've had no problems. So stainless steel rail should be perfect for you. Thus Aristo Craft stainless steel track would be your best bet. The Llagas track we have is great and the nickel silver rail looks really nice and doesn't need much cleaning. Basically we have to clean it after the winter when we reopen the layout and the occasional cleaning after heavy rains. But other than that no cleanings are needed. But with Llagas, you have to bend your own curves and such not making it an ideal beginner's track choice.

So if I were you, I'd go with Aristo stainless steel track.

I hear ya about getting the ground level. Take a look at some of the photos and the video on our website, Snowshoe & San Juan, to see what we've done to minimize grades. A lot of fills with rocks from the property holding it up.

Elk have damaged sections of rail but I've been able to replace them. We bring all of the switch tracks inside over the winter to protect them from animal trampling. Using rail joiners, like SplitJaw, makes it easy to remove the switch tracks. Bear? Well we have them too, but they don't seem too interested in the layout. One liked the inside of our cabin and the refrigerator a bit more


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Well, there we have it. 

Every posting here is correct. Even the funny ones. 

This boils down to the fundamentals listed. Everyone is talking SS or Brass track


From a track perspective: SS = less maintenance & less conductivity, Brass = more conductivity & more maintenance. note, each choice has needs re setup and joints etc to prevent issues. 


Both materials are good choices but each has their limitations. There is no perfect track however if your priority is DCC, DCS or signal control then you have a choice. If your priority is otherwise then you again have a choice. 


Now for other items? I like the foam door in the tunnel for train storage concept.









gg


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## Terl (Jan 2, 2008)

Krogersolar 

I think that you can get either stainless steel or brass to work for you, but larger code 332 in high rail (LGB size) is definitely more robust and will standup better to trampleing. Well I helped my friend build his layout in the mountains and have some opinons and advise I will offer. Most of his track was mounted to PVC electrical conduit pipe, which is definitly water proof, but could give you some problems with expansion or warpage in strong sunlight. So if your layout is mainly in the shade I could recomend it. See my post on The Flexible Spine System which you might consider. 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi.../1/view/topic/postid/59569/Default.aspx#63144 

Now if a deer or elk steps on your track it will definitly kink it so just be prepared to replace a short section of track. I just succesfully straightened some track which I had put my knee on with a hammer and a fancy railbender. My theory on tack is that if it’s on the ground animals will trample it. But elk and deer intinctively step over fallen trees, so I think that if you put your track a foot or two above the ground that they will step over it without much harm. Just don’t put it so high that they have to leap over it. Now a fence 6 foot high can keep an elk out, but not deer. In fact my friend built a fence around part of his layout only to find a buck deer inside the fence foundering around trying to get out. He was just lucky it didn’t damage anything. On the other hand, track he had outside the fenced area which was about 2 feet above the ground on a steep slope had several elk step over it without damage. You would be wise to not block the normal traffic flow of wild animals, look for paths or tracks that show where they usually go. 

I wouldn’t worry about bears as long as food is not involved. Actually based on my own experience, people triping over the track is by far the most likely source of damage to your railroad. 

Terl


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Brass rail is not bad if you install it right the first time! I ran brass for 18 years with no problems with joints. The rail jointers that came on the track work just fine. I got tired of cleaning so change to battery.


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

Wait a minute. Let's focus on the important stuff here. You gave your mom an SD-45??? THAT needs a little elaboration. 


Hmmm. Give your family members trains, that way your fleet expands and you have fulfilled your gift obligations as well. 


Brilliant. Who is gonna get the new box of track?


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Al McEvoy on 03/29/2009 6:00 PM
Wait a minute. Let's focus on the important stuff here. You gave your mom an SD-45??? THAT needs a little elaboration. 


Hmmm. Give your family members trains, that way your fleet expands and you have fulfilled your gift obligations as well. 


Brilliant. Who is gonna get the new box of track?














That's funny, Al and a good point. The wife and I are coming up on 10 years this fall. I wonder if she would like a USA Hudson?










-Brian


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## dltrains (Jan 2, 2008)

Brian, 

I hope that tractor is not the only thing you have to sleep in after you buy that Hudson 

Dave


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe buy a canopy and side curtains and it may be livable and then a portable heater. Boy that is a sure way to get to Dog/tractor house. Later RJD


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