# Accucraft K4 Recommended Decoder



## pvcaputo_ny (Oct 25, 2009)

Hey Guys

A quick side note, I am new to the board and apologize ahead of time if I am asking a question that has been answered; I have been browsing the last 2 months (and may have missed it), but must thank everyone here for their contributions and input, you guys are a HUGE help. If this has been answered you can shake your head and point me to the discussion lol. Greg, amazing website you have definitely been guiding me in the right direction! 


So I have recently jumped back into the hobby hardcore, which started when I was about six, stopped for a long period of time and has now taken over my paychecks and life...and I love it. Most of my equiptment is LGB (as that is what I started with back in the day), but my focus here is on a recently acquired K4. Thanks to those here who have documented their K4 upgrades, I am well on the right track (im sure that ones been beaten to death). I will be installing a Phoenix PB9 soon in the tender, but my main question here is choosing a decoder for the engine that will work well with the Phoenix; Greg & Jim-thank you for disassembling and re-wiring instructions and detailed experiences, I will be following these closely when attempting the conversion to DCC. 



I am running this and my other (to be converted) LGB locos on an LGB MTS III w/ LGB wireless loco remotes (I realize this isnt the choice for most, but works well for my small outdoor layout...space is mad limited in ny, I just was able to squeeze in 8' dia curves lol). Anyway, QSI? Massoth? I have had great experience dealing with Klaus and Massoth in an ongoing upgrade an Old C&S Mogul from '89, uh! In the future, when funds permit, I will want to add a pulsed smoke unit to the K4 as well, maybe Massoth's or MTH (although I realize it DCS), not sure yet, but if you could keep this in mind in your suggestions of a driving decoder.

So I am all over the place here. Main focus: driving decoder for K4, that will work correctly with PB5 (chuff wise for future pulse smoke unit) and LGB MTS III, and that can be installed following Greg's instructions. Sorry for bein all ova the place, I'll work on that in future posts, as their will be many to come I assure you









Phil


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

NCE D808. Since you are going to run the Phoenix, all you need is a motor decoder. The Pittman motor can draw HUGE amounts of current, the D808 is about the heaviest duty decoder you can find, and it does not have BEMF so it won't go nuts on the Pittman and the crazy drivetrain. 

If you were not stuck on the Phoenix, I would buy the Zimo combination decoder, that is what I am using, has more features, does everything the Phoenix does, and the sounds do change according to load, which only the QSI and Zimo do. It's an extra realistic feature. But, there is a down side, there is a limited set of sounds for the Zimo, and right now, I would put the Phoenix ahead in sound quality. 

I chose the Zimo for the functions, and I know there are more sounds coming. 

Regards, Greg


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## pvcaputo_ny (Oct 25, 2009)

Thanks Greg. I wouldnt be stuck on Phoenix if I hadnt already purchased one; it was for a different engine, which i changed plans on and needed a sound+drive decoder combo for that engine. Need to make best with what i have now. Is the NCE D808 similar installation to the QSI you documented? 

Thanks 
Phil


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm... similar... basically all decoders have the same installation... track pickups to the track inputs, motor outputs to the motor, and headlight and backup light same. Same dropping resistors. 

The only difference will be that the Phoenix should also be connected to the track pickups too... no interconnections between the Phoenix and NCE of course. 

Regards, Greg


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Phil, 

I am also using the MTSIII, although now with Navigators instead of the LGB remotes. Since it is important to you to be able to use the pulsed smoke maker, I would check that the the NCE decoder Greg has recommended will work properly with it. I would recommend you stay with Massoth, and make the jump to a XLS sound decoder. The reason I say this is that ultimately you will be happier with the ability of the XLS to control the pulsed smoke maker: It is really neat to have the sound/smoke coordinated so when you back off the throttle the sound changes to coasting and the smoke cuts out, and vice-versa. Just re-use your Phoenix in another locomotive, since they can easily be reprogrammed with the computer interface etc. I did exactly what I have described with my LGB Heidi. Originally it had the onboard decoder with Phoenix, then I made the switch to the XLS and pulsed smoke maker. You will need to have a hall effect sensor for the chuff if you want exact timing, or you can adjust the decoder to simulate the timing. Either way the pulsed smoke maker is always linked to the XLS decoder. Klaus of course can give you great advice if you have any problems. 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I sort of glossed over the pulsed smoke, but Keith is right, after re-reading your original post. The MTH unit does not have a "logic level" pulsed input like the Massoth. You would have to make a circuit, and more than just a relay turning it on and off. I believe the MTH actually has a "braking" function for driving the smoke fan to get better puffing response. (like the cordless drills that stop instantly when you let off the trigger). 

If you are going to pulse the smoke from a reed switch, then the decoder does not even come into play. You hook your reed switch to the Phoenix and the Massoth inputs. 

If you want the decoder to run the pulses and chuff (i.e. no magnets and reed switches), then Keith's advice is better. I think the Zimo can do this too, although the Massoth and ESU XLS are sold by Massoth so the integration of them is a more well understood setup. 

I kept my recommendation the way it was because Phil wanted to use the Phoenix. If not using the Phoenix, I would investigate the ESU XLS and the Zimo "all in one" decoders. 

Regards, Greg


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## pvcaputo_ny (Oct 25, 2009)

Thanks Keith & Greg. As it looks, I will probably go with the NCE + Phoenix. The long story: I had the Phoenix installed in my C&S Mogul tender already, before I discovered the pulse smoke generator; after Klaus looked at my Mogul, he said because of its age, the pulse generator in the loco was to old to use with the Massoth XL drive decoder, which I had specified for an installation originally (which would be used with the Phoenix.) He said the only way to synch the chuff sound with the pulse smoke, I would need the XLS Sound decoder (which has a newer pulse generator). 

So what it came down to was a newbie mistake, and now I have the Phoenix installation which cost around $300, so to make sure this money doesnt go to waste, I want to take it out of the Mogul tender and use it in the K4...at least for now, and tackle smoke generator in the future for the K4. As money is tight as is, I cant afford to buy the 2 XLS (one for mogul & one for K4 which is around 300 ea) when I still have the Phoenix. A few lessons learned! 

So while Klaus has my mogul, I'll have him install an XLS, hold off on the pulse smoke (which I will do my self down the road), and Ill install the phoenix in the K4. As for the drive decoder, NCE looks great and can be afforded on my budget. Thanks guys, Ill update this project as it unfolds.


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