# Building a Class A Climax



## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Well I've decided to try my hand at scratch building a Class A Climax. I had purchased one of the Northeast narrow gauge class a kits but wasn't very impressed. It was basically some plywood parts, a small 12 VDC motor with a few gears and some weak potmetal side bolsters that would easily bend.

So instead, i decided to use the plans and see if i can make something a little moer robust. Something that will work good, run smoothly and last.

My first part into building the frame and "cab" was how do I make it look old? So I found a old cedar picnic table that was broken and well weathered. What a great place to get some weathered wood for my project. recyling!

I cut the wood down to the deminsions I needed using the drawings from garden railroad magazine I found on line. They are the same ones that were used for the kit. I was as careful as I could be to make sure that the exposed edges that could be seen were weathered. So here's some pictures of the fruits of my labor of how far I've gotten so far.

First off is some pictures of the kit I took as I was playing with it.





The motor/gear box assembly.



The trucks with the flimsy pot metal sides.



This is the axle gear assembly.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

This is the slats from the old cedar table that was broken. I found it near a trash bin.



And here is the frame and platform I built from it.





The underside.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Next I built the "cab" for the loco. I haven't finishe dit off yet as I still ned to put in a rear bulkhead. Just not sure if i want a solid one or one with a walkway out to the water tank "deck". I also still have to decied if I want a round wooden water tank or a square metal one. Did they have a square wooden water tank at any time?

The first side.



Two walls up.



Steps.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

My plan is to not permantly attach the "cab" but to make it removable. My thinking is so that I can put in batteries and a DCC and sound. I may have to build a "trailer flat car" to hold some of this though.

Now is where some of my questions come in.

I am thinking of building a "T" boiler for the loco. I'm jsut wondering where i could find some small cast parts needed for the details. Lights, boiler door, stack, whistle, etc.

As for the 2 cylinder steam engine, any good sources for a cast one? Or a link to one someone ha sbuilt? I've seen a few pictures on line with a quick search. Guess I can just go by that.

Powered trucks. Any good source or what to use? I've heard of using the magic carpet ones and that is what the kit also called for, but I can't find the part numbr that is in the instructions on their site.

I'll update more as I build more. Also any help in design or where to look for parts would be greatly appreicated.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I don't see that motor as drawing a whole lot of current. You may be able to get away with one of Airwire's "Convertr" receivers and a lower capacity (1 amp or so) decoder. That's a pretty space-saving combination; easily hidden in a water tank or similar. Depending on how fast it runs, you may be able to get away with an 11.1v Li-Ion pack, but if not, even a 14.8v pack shouldn't be too hard to hide under a faux load of wood. 

Later

K


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I no longer have the kit as there were issues with it so I just returned it. So the motor and trucks are gone.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah, my favorite geared loco! (You're aware that Regner makes a kit for a steam version?)



Crusty Old Shellback said:


> . . .
> 
> Now is where some of my questions come in.
> 
> I am thinking of building a "T" boiler for the loco. I'm jsut wondering where i could find some small cast parts needed for the details. Lights, boiler door, stack, whistle, etc.


Ozark and Trackside Details have loads of detail parts for steam engines - domes, whistles, backhead valves, etc.



> As for the 2 cylinder steam engine, any good sources for a cast one? Or a link to one someone ha sbuilt? I've seen a few pictures on line with a quick search. Guess I can just go by that.


 Graham Industries sells a kit to make a working 2-cylinder engine. You could copy that.
http://grahamind.com/store/page1.html 



> Powered trucks. Any good source or what to use? I've heard of using the magic carpet ones and that is what the kit also called for, but I can't find the part numbr that is in the instructions on their site.
> 
> I'll update more as I build more. Also any help in design or where to look for parts would be greatly appreicated.


 There's a long discussion started by Burl about similar 'magic carpet drives'. See http://forums.mylargescale.com/15-model-making/30937-magic-carpet-drive-similar.html
NWSL don't make them any more. "Real" climax trucks have skew bevel gears, and if you search this site you'll find lots of anguishing over the problems of making them - though someone has a set on Shapeways that you can have 'printed'.

Your easiest option would be a pair of Bachmann Shay replacement trucks ?


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks Pete.

Yes I've been on the Graham site, just not sure I want to go live steam at this time.

I've seen the Shay trucks and have a 3 truck Shay in my inventory along with a Class B Climax. I've looked on bachmans webiste but they do not sell replacement trucks for the Climax. Now if I could find a good deal on a beat up used one with good working trucks and gear box, I could make that work. But alast, I haven't found one yet.

And I have seen Burls thread and that's kind of what got me started down this road.

I've also been poking around the Northwest Short Line sight looking for other methods of motovation.

I think having a center shaft and gears like the prototype would be awsome. But i just ned to figure out how to do it. Otherwise I'm just stuck with some powered trucks.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Well last night I started doing some measuring and mocking up of a T boiler and a round water tank. Now it seems that I need to extend the frame another 1 1/2" to accomidate the water tank. So it's back to the 'drawing board" to redesign the frame/base and build another one. Luckly I have plenty of "old" wood to build it.

On a side note. if I have a large round wooden water tank on the back, where would one keep the wood for teh boiler? Or Oil or coal? Would that be a seperate car, like a tender, pulled by the loco? Or would the water tank be on a "tender" and the wood be on the back of the loco? 

I've contacted bachmann to see if i can purchase the trucks and shaft drive system for their climax to use/retro fit into my loco. We'll see how they respond as they do not show it available on their website.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Crusty Old Shellback said:


> . .
> On a side note. if I have a large round wooden water tank on the back, where would one keep the wood for teh boiler? Or Oil or coal? Would that be a seperate car, like a tender, pulled by the loco? Or would the water tank be on a "tender" and the wood be on the back of the loco?
> . .


I think the wood went on the frame alongside the boiler. Let me see if I can find a photo . .
And yes (previous query) the water tanks were always circular!


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## Jean Gilles Durand (Jan 6, 2009)

Hello to you 
, I present the Climax I built a year if it can be useful. It works on the R1, the two trucks are driving, formed by gimbals with two speeds and neutral controlled by the lever in the cabin


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

jean,
I've seen your pictures and am using it for some of my details. I hope you don't mind as that is an awsome loco you have built. I do have a few questions for you.

Where did you aquire the trucks/running gear from? or did you build them.

Do you have any details about building the marine steam engine? parts, diagrams, measurments, etc? I'd like to build something similar.

can you provide some basic measurments of the overal model?

Thanks for any and all help.

I've been looking at my Bachmann Class b Climax that I have. Some rough measurments have the base frame at 14" long. The Northeast kit had the base frame measurments at 12" long. In trying to fit a 3" round water tank on the back of the northeast kit, I need to add 1 1/2" to make it fit. So maybe adding a total of 2" to the base from is not a bad idea.

I've also been in touch with bachmann. I got a reply that the climax trucks are available. I'm now trying to find out if the running gear is also available. But it may be that at the prices they are asking, I would be better off buying a usend one off of Ebay. Unless I can find a better way to do the running gear.

So that kind of begs the question, has anyone ever bought a good running loco at market price, and then cut it up/kit bashed to buld another loco that is not available? I guess I'm just looking for conformation that I'm not crazy thinking of spending 300 bucks on a loco just to hack it all up and use it for parts.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Well I got some replies back from bachman and it looks to be cheapier to just repurpose my bachman ClasS B Climax. Not that big of a deal since it is an older one with the motors not isolated and not DCC friendly. 

So I guess this thread should be renamed to my attempt at turning a Bachmann Class B climax into a Class A Climax. It's probably going to be a slow process but I'll keep this updated as I make progress along with pictures.

My first step is to disasemble the loco which I started last night. Nothing major to report yet. I'll get some pictures taken and post them up when I get a chance. Once I get it fully disassembled, my next task will be to figure out how to use the side steam chest and turn them into vertical steam chest and look like a marine engine for a class A.


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## Jean Gilles Durand (Jan 6, 2009)

Hello Crusty
I am going to send you a PM where you will find the main size of my model.
I am anxious to specify that my model is completely in scratch , except wheels and gears which cost me 30 dollars.
I am quickly going to post a photo without the cabin which can help you
See you soon


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Do you have a blog or thread posted somewhere on the internet that details the build? I'm very interested since it is all scratch built. I remember seeing somewhere that you posted it being all scratch built and I admire your work.

I hope that I can do half as good on my build as you have on yours. But I'm cheating some by using the Bachmann Climax I have for parts.


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## JohnKK (Jan 15, 2014)

*Not circular water tanks*

"And yes (previous query) the water tanks were always circular!"

Well, not quite "always"


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## JohnKK (Jan 15, 2014)

*Class A Climax with square tank*

And here is my, unfinished, Class A Climax. It is built from an Ozark Miniatures kit.

John


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## JohnKK (Jan 15, 2014)

I apologize if the prototype photos of the square tank Climax's won't enlarge. Apparetntly, that is the size I downloaded them. Both of them have square tanks. They were easily found by googling Class A Climax. (Actually, they are rectangular prism tanks, or parallelepipeds, whichever you prefer).

John


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## JohnKK (Jan 15, 2014)

"So that kind of begs the question, has anyone ever bought a good running loco at market price, and then cut it up/kit bashed to buld another loco that is not available? I guess I'm just looking for conformation that I'm not crazy thinking of spending 300 bucks on a loco just to hack it all up and use it for parts."

Well, since you ask, yes, I have done that. Here is a pic of what started out as a perfectly good Bachmann 3-cylinder Shay. I am turning it into the Mich-Cal #2. I shortened the frame, cut-off one cylinder, modified the crankcase, and completely scratchbuilt everything above the frame. It is far from finished, but it is coming along. Behind it is the WSLCo Shay #15, a three-truck Shay. Bachmann supplied the three trucks, and three cylinders (now highly modified), but it did not start out as Bachmann Shay model.

John


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for all of your inputs. And thanks to you guys and the Boss, I'm taking the big plunge.

I recently picked up this little jewel. It runs great but is not DCC friendly as it's an older one. So now it is my doner for my T boiler class A Climax.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

So I've been looking at all of the pictures you guys have shared along with more I've found on the net. I'm kind of designing/building as I go. First step was to completely disassemble the Bachmann Climax. Got that done and now have a big plié of parts to use.

Next step was to figure out my base and mount the trucks. The I cut down the drive shafts and cut up the gear box to get the mounting frames. I then built a box section to mount it all. It works good. I went this route as the trucks/drive are proven and to purchase the parts from Bachmann would have cost more than what I paid for my doner loco.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I had already modified the couplers as I had made body mounts on my box cars that will be pulled by this loco. So I just built up the ends and mounted the couplers to them. I still have to build the front one but it will look the same. I also have to build the steps for it as well.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I've got my water tank built up as well. I used a 2" PVC slip coupler and cut it to the length I wanted. I found a black ABS flat cap and cut the top off of it as it had a nice round raised piece on the inside that will work as a start for the hatch. I glued the parts together and am now working on the rivets. I used some old straight pins I had, cut the tops off, and glued them into the holes I had drilled. Now I just have to finish off the rest of it.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

For my boiler, I got a PVC T, a PVC coupler and the front half of the boiler from the Climax. I drilled out the T so that the coupler would fit in it. I couldn't find the right size I wanted in a T so that is why I did it this way. this is as far as I have gotten on building the boiler.


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## JohnKK (Jan 15, 2014)

I like where this is going. It reminds me of some of the things I did for my t-boilered Shay. You are inspiring me to get back to work on it and finish it. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted on how this project is progressing.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for the encouragement. I'll update as I make progress. I'm thinking along the same lines as you did. 

I can't quite figure out how to use the cylinders from my Climax, so my thought process was to buy a Shay steam engine from Bachmann for 100 bucks and cut it down to 2 cylinders. Then use the extra length of the crank to put some gears on and have them driven by some gears on the current shaft. It will look like the steam engine is driving everything when in reality, it's completely the opposite.

So if you could be so kind as to share what you did on your Shay, I'd greatly appreciate it. Or is it fairly straight forward?


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## JohnKK (Jan 15, 2014)

I will have to do some research. It was a long, long time ago that I did the frame and cylinder modifications. I do know that I followed some guidelines in either Finescale Railroader Magazine, or maybe NG&SLG, probably from 8-10 years ago or so. If I remember, it was fairly straightforward, but again, it was a long time ago.

John


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Well I've made some more progress lately. First off is my water tank. I got all of the Rivets in and a coat of paint on it so it's all the same color. I still need to find/make a lid for the top.

My " rivets". Just some sewing pins that I cut off the top 1/4" and glude in the holes I drilled.





And the water tank


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Some work I got done on the T boiler. I drilled a bunch of holes and put in the rivets.





I made a "flange" out of card stock and glued it double thick. 



Then I glued it on the boiler and drilled and "riveted" it.



I used the fire box door from the Doner Bachmann.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I've still got some clean up to do and maybe some more rivets before I paint it. But here is a pic of it with all the extras added on from the Bachmann. I'm thinking of using the hand rails just so I don't have to try and remove the molded in mounts and fill them in.







I do have the smoke burner in the boiler as well as I'm going to fit in the flickering LEDs and fire box from the Bachmann. I just need to change out the stack for a wood burner one.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Well I've made some more progress. I've also ran into some challenges. I'll talk about the challenges later. First the progress pictures. I got the boiler together and a quick coat of paint. I'll continue to add more details as I go along. I've also built the wooden "cab" for the loco. Now I just have to build a roof over it. I've added in the fire box from the doaner as well.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I used some "u" staples for the mounting bolts that hold on the "cab". They are just loose enough so that I can remove the "cab" to work on the loco inside.



And inside the boiler.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

A few challenges ahead. I tried to wire up the loco's head light, smoke unit and fire box flicker lights using the existing circuits that were in the loco. I got the smoke to work, but not much smoke. I got the fire box and ash pan lights to come on, just no flicker. I don't remember if they flickered on the original loco or not. The head light is a different story. The back up light was always on on the doaner loco. The head light never worked. using the wiring diagram I found on line, I hooked up the head light. Now I can't get either light to work. may be time to just go ahead and put in a DCC/sound card.

The other issue is that the circuit card will not fit inside of the boiler. So my thought is to use the ash pan from the doaner, cut it down some to clear the drive gears, and mount it along with what ever card I use under the frame.

More to come as I do some research.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Well I've made some more progress. I've also made some changes to my original design. I basically flipped the base end for end. I did this to give me more room under the base for the gears and shafts for the steam engine. It also will make the fire box under the boiler fit better. I had to redo the "cab" to make it fit. I just stretched the front a little. I've also started trying to figure out the details for the boiler. Lines and valves and such.





I've added in some steps as well.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I've decided to try and use the steam engine from the doaner Climax rather than buying the Shay one. I took the steam chest and cut off part of the lower mounts. I took off the chest and rotated it 90 degrees so that it would line up properly. I then took a large section out of the driving rods to shorten them up. I tried to solder them but couldn't get enough heat in them so I'm using JB weld. A little clean up and paint and it shouldn't be noticeable.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Now I need some help from you experts out there. I've been looking at a lot of pictures on line and the models that have been posted on this website as well as others. But I'm still a bit confused of what all plumbing I need between the boiler, steam engine, and water tank.

I know I need a stem line from the top of the steam dome to the input of the steam chest valves. I will also need a line to a pressure relief valve and the steam whistle. I've got that figured out. But here are my questions:

1. Where does the exhaust steam get piped to? 
2. How does the water get from the tank to the boiler? Where does it enter the boiler?
3. Where are the blow down valves and plumbing located?
4. Is there a air pump of some sort for moving water/brakes?
5. Any other lines/valves I need to install?

Thanks for any help.

My next task is to figure out a crank shaft and how I can also connect the steam valves to the crank/steam chest. I have all of the linkage from the doaner.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Time for some more updates. First off is the water tank. I've found some parts and made a "lid" for the top. I also glued a "ring" onto the floor to set the tank over and hold it in place. It's a tight fit but leaves the tank removable if need be. For now, I've also adde some of the old weights from the donor loco under it. Mickey gave uo his base for my top and it fits perfect over the "nub" on the top of the tank. handle is just a piece of brass wire.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I made a little mod to the drive shafts in that I lowered the center mounting frame some so that the shafts are not at an angle. this will also give me more room when I figure out ow to do my gears to run the steam engine.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

I've got a little more work done on the steam engine. I tried shortning the original conecting rods but it just didn't work so I tried making some from some bar stock alunimum. They work for now but I need to do a littlle more work on them to make them look better before I paint them. I'm still tring to work out the details for a crank and to add in the valve gear rods.

The steam cylinders from the Class b Climax that I've modifed some.



The new rods.





I still need to build a base to mount them on so that they are moer stable and also use the base to mount the crank I need to build. More to come.


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## up9018 (Jan 4, 2008)

The old Climax is looking really good Crusty, keep up the great work.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Time for some more updates. I'm having some issues with trying to build a working/rotating steam engine. So I'm kind of leaning towards buying a Shay steam engine from bachmann and cutting off one of the cylinders. I haven't given up yet, but I'm leaning that way.

But on the progress side, I made myself a rusty old corrugated tin roof for my Climax. First off I received some corrugated "tin" from a buddy of mine that made the sheets out of old aluminum cans. Nothing fancy here as I'm sure plenty of you guys have done it before. This one was a sprite can. He told me he annealed them using a torch rather than baking them. It works quicker.


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Next I used a process my buddy told me he used. I got some PCB board etching liquid from my local Fryes electronic store, it's basically Ferric chlorine. USE IT OUT DOORS! to stop the process, you drop them into regular old water. So I gave it a try. Man that stuff boils and smokes. It's basically eating the metal. I left it in for about 20 seconds and the removed the parts and dropped them into my 5 gal bucket of water. When I pulled them out, they were a nice dark black. I thought OK, let them dry and I can add some of my rust powders and make them look nice. So I did a quick towel damp dry and set them aside while I went and had dinner. When I cam back, this is what I found. I did experiment on one piece and left it in for about 45 sec. It was full of holes and looked like a really old rusted out piece.



So I cut them up into some useful pieces and glued them to my Climax for a roof.





I think it came out great. Next I'll seal it with some dulcote to make sure it doesn't come off. I had used some painters tape to hold the pieces in place while my superglue gel set. When I removed the tape, it did take a little off but it's not really noticeable.


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## denray (Jan 5, 2008)

Crusty
Your model is looking GREAT
Dennis


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Thanks for the encouragement guys. This is all a new path for me and it's good to hear I'm on the right track. I'm learning as I go.


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## fockewulf37 (Mar 26, 2012)

This was a great thread until you deleted your photobucket pictures can you add them back??


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## Jean Gilles Durand (Jan 6, 2009)

If you be interested, follow this link

http://forums.mylargescale.com/15-model-making/26443-scratch-climax-2.html


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## Crusty Old Shellback (Jun 3, 2013)

Sorry guys, haven't been on here in a long time. Photo bucket was nice enough to block all of my photos. I've got them moved, just need to rehost them to another site.

But as life happens, I've been working on other non related train projects, so this one is still siting.


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Mate, I just migrated pics over to Flickr, so far things are good and I 'm happy my pics are now availlable to the group.

Having previously been with Photobucket, they are now persona non grata with me for their corporate bully boy ransom demands.


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## RickSr (Apr 17, 2016)

*Do you have a link to the flicker*



Scott said:


> Mate, I just migrated pics over to Flickr, so far things are good and I 'm happy my pics are now availlable to the group.
> 
> Having previously been with Photobucket, they are now persona non grata with me for their corporate bully boy ransom demands.


Do you have a link to the flicker


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## Scott (Jan 29, 2008)

Rick - this link puts you directly to my page, feel free to navigate so you can get an idea of how it works. Have a bit of a poke around the site and see if it suits your needs.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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