# Connectors between locomotive and tender.



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I am working on a steam locomotive project, it's a modified Bachmann "connie" 2-8-0. I have decided that I am going to go with North Coast Engineering DCC as the control system for my railroad, and this locomotive is going to be the first of my locomotives to be converted to DCC.

I have gutted all the stock electronics from the locomotive, and im not planning to put anything back in..

Im ready to put the locomotive back together..here she is now(ish):










Its still going to be awhile before I start buying DCC equipment..I have the power supply, and because of the cost I will probably buy the DCC system in pieces, (booster, command station, and cab), and sound system! so its going to be another year before I have it all..

meanwhile, im ready to "finish" the locomotive..put all the details back on, and paint it, then it will be complete except for its electronics..

Im going to put everything in the tender..DCC decoder, speaker, and sound system. (Its going to be using a Bachmann big hauler tender)..

So, my question..what are some good connectors to use between the locomotive and the tender? I found a DCC wiring diagram for reference:










My locomotive will have three pairs of wires between the locomotive and the tender..six wires total:

1. two wires from the headlight.
2. two wires from the drivers (track power pickup)
3. and two wires connected directly to the motor.

The wires will run through the boiler, and terminate in connectors under the cab, which will then be plugged into the tender..

Connectors could be three sets of two pin connectors.
Two sets of three pin connectors..
perhaps even one 6-pin connector! if such a thing exists..

anyone have any suggestions?
thanks,
Scot


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JST-2-5-SM-8-Pin-Male-Female-Connector-plug-with-Wire-x-5-Sets-/181461860269


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot,
I use a variety of connectors. For low power (e.g. headlights, r/c servos) you can't beat the 'servo extender' cables, which have a 3-wire plug/socket pair.

Dave Bodnar on LSC has a whole page of info on his website:
http://www.trainelectronics.com/Articles/Connectors/index.htm

I have a jar of connector pairs ranging from 4 pin to 8 pin, mostly computer wiring. I bought them years ago from some online supplier - all-battery? all-electronics?


----------



## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot - this article on my web page may help - it includes a six conductor cable

http://www.trainelectronics.com/Articles/Connectors/index.htm

This article has some 7 conductor & some 3 conductor (for 3's you could use two sets)

dave


----------



## dbodnar (Jan 2, 2008)

dbodnar said:


> Scot - this article on my web page may help - it includes a six conductor cable
> 
> http://www.trainelectronics.com/Articles/Connectors/index.htm
> 
> ...


forgot the 2nd link
http://www.trainelectronics.com/ART5700TrainEngineerRevolution/Connectors/index.htm

dave


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The 6 conductor JST's are pretty easy to find at all electronics.

If it was not obvious, my post was an EIGHT pin connector, as requested.

That's 5 sets of connectors for 9 bucks. I just ordered them myself.

Greg


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

awesome! thanks guys..
I'll check out those links..
one 6-pin connector would be obviously be the easiest..

Scot


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You can just make it with 6 pins, but then you cannot remotely control smoke if you want, 2 track, 2 motor, 2 headlight = 6

If you had 8 you could control smoke and cab light.

I have the part numbers and a listing of JST connectors and links here:
http://www.elmassian.com/index.php?...icle&id=253:miscellaneous&catid=19&Itemid=285


Greg


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, I never use smoke units..in fact, if I'm modyfing or kitbashing a locomtive I usually just rip them right out..although I hadn't considered a cab light! That's a cool idea...can DCC systems usually control a cab light seprately from a locomotive headlight? Or would they be turned on and off together?
Thanks,
Scot


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

You might want some wires for a hall-effect axle sensor so your chuff timing is perfect too...
Do you have to have the decoder in the tender? 

Keith


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Cougar Rock Rail said:


> You might want some wires for a hall-effect axle sensor so your chuff timing is perfect too...


another good idea! thanks..I will look into that too..
(I should probably just order an 8-pin connector!  sounds like I might end up wanting them all! )



> Do you have to have the decoder in the tender?
> 
> Keith


No, but I would prefer to..just because I believe it would make everything much easier. and because I want to put the locomotive back together now, and paint and decal it (this winter) and have all the necessary wires terminating in a connector, ready to hook up to the tender..All the electronics in the tender will come later..possibly much later!  This project has already been 6 years in the making, I want to finish the locomotive..

thanks,
Scot


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

if you use a chuff sensor, then I would put the decoder in the loco. One advantage of putting the decoder in the loco is the ability to run/test the loco w/o the tender.

But there's the issue of space and ease of access.

Greg


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot,

This is just a suggestion from one who has done this to my Connie. Jonathan Bliese did my Airwire/Phoenix install in late 2007. In that install, Jonathan used ONE single plug similar to what is shown above by Greg. Worked great for a few years. Then as I began using the Connie more and more at various layouts, I found the single plug was always in the way of the metal pin connector to attach the tender to the locomotive. So Jonathan made up two smaller plugs and I had less "bulky wires" involved with EACH plug. In doing this, it was easier to "route" the TWO sets of wires around that "pesky" connector pen. You will find that the Bachmann tender is fairly light weight (even with batteries) compared to my brass Accucraft C-19 loco. That engine is still using a single plug for the engine to tender connection with the same plug Greg recommends. Just a suggestion. I'll try to find some photos of my plug connections or take some in the morning and post 'em.


----------



## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I prefer a single polarized connector between engine and training car/tender to prevent magic smoke.
And with the newer systems going over 10 amps this is getting to be very important.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> I prefer a single polarized connector between engine and training car/tender to prevent magic smoke.
> And with the newer systems going over 10 amps this is getting to be very important.


Sorry Dan, I'll forego the photos of my Connie connections. as I SHOULD have read more closely that Scot was DCC. I will now crawl back into my cave and continue with my 1/8th scale "stuff". 

BUT, Scot will have an even greater problem with the binding of wires around that tender connection pin with a single plug and no added weight in the tender. In my opinion, those wires in a bundle will be stiff and the tender can be easily derailed. Ask me how I know.  I DO use fine scale wheel sets and trucks on my tender.....Accucraft C-21 trucks.


----------



## Beddhist (Dec 17, 2013)

Piko makes a 12-pole coupler (that replaces a standard coupler):

http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=artikel&vw_id=14999

and

http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=artikel&vw_id=17865
(the picture for this seems to be wrong, the instruction leaflet shows a mechanical connector)

You need one of each, if I understand it correctly.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan Pierce said:


> I prefer a single polarized connector between engine and training car/tender to prevent magic smoke.
> And with the newer systems going over 10 amps this is getting to be very important.


Hi Dan,

I have always had a person with much more knowledge than me do my installations. I just don't get along well with electronics. Having said that, I have a question. If you use two plugs and a wire comes loose or shorts or "something", then I can see where you might get "magic smoke". If you use a single plug, then wouldn't the same thing happen if you lost a wire, short or something else? Could you not put something in the circuit that would sense a break and then have the entire system in that particular engine shut-down.

I am building seven Baldwin electric freight engines in 1-1/2" scale each powered by two 12 volt deep cycle RV batteries. Two of our engines out for a run a couple of months ago, are pictured below.










This photo is a close-up of the two engines MU'ed, running from a single controller. Notice the led's on the rear of the cab window (green) are lit. These show that the engines are working together and all circuits are working, including the MU cables between each engine.. If any wire shorts, comes loose or an MU cable dis-connects, the system shuts down and the loco go into "Emergency Stop". These two engines together weigh 700 pounds They also have a 50 amp circuit. The MU plugs used in all of these engines are typical Molex plugs.....I've forgotten how many pins . Except for the change in the electrical system (newer state-of-the-art stuff), the front engine has been working like this for about thirty years. The engine nearest the engineer/riding car is brand new.










If we could do this in the larger ride-on scales, could this not be done in the smaller scales? Or is the DCC factor the BIG difference? I'm just curious. Maybe I can learn something.


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

*A different method*

Scot,
I have never been a fan of those connections between the tender and loco. Hard to get to and prone to breaking. I have been doing it in a different way. I leave a long enough tail on the connector so it extends through a hidden hole into the tender. This is very clean looking when connected and no tension on the lead. The connection is then made in the tender. Granted,the coal load or oil bunker lid must be removeable. I also slip a piece of shrink tube over the wire bundle. It is not heated,just there to hide wires. Very brief description, but you should get the idea. The tender in the photo is not the one for this loco (Aristo 2-8-0) but one for a new loco in progress.
Here is a photo.


----------



## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I like it Paul. Solves the usual problem, but in a simple way. Thanks.


----------



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

That is a great idea Paul!

Keith


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul Burch said:


> Scot,
> I have never been a fan of those connections between the tender and loco. Hard to get to and prone to breaking. I have been doing it in a different way. I leave a long enough tail on the connector so it extends through a hidden hole into the tender. This is very clean looking when connected and no tension on the lead. The connection is then made in the tender. Granted,the coal load or oil bunker lid must be removeable. I also slip a piece of shrink tube over the wire bundle. It is not heated,just there to hide wires. Very brief description, but you should get the idea. The tender in the photo is not the one for this loco (Aristo 2-8-0) but one for a new loco in progress.
> Here is a photo.


Interesting idea Paul!
but im not quite sure what problem that is solving..
either way, you have to plug and unplug the connection to the tender..
and if you have it inside the tender, all you have done is add two extra steps: 
1. remove the coal load.
2. thread the wire into the tender opening. 
*then * you can plug it in..as opposed to just plugging it right to the jack affixed to the outside of the tender..
So how is that better? it only seems more complicated to me! 
what am I missing?

thanks,
scot


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Scot,
Works great for me. But,to each his own I guess.


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Paul Burch said:


> Scot,
> Works great for me. But,to each his own I guess.


well, im sure it works great, im not questioning that..
im just curious why you did it in the first place?
what issue were you having with "the regular way"?

you said "Hard to get to and prone to breaking."..
I didnt understand why that was the case..
but ok..I guess I can see both of those points now, now that I think about it more..
(I dont have much experience with plugging and unplugging a tender)
but I see how the connection can be a pain the "regular way", because the loco and tender need to be in close proximity to connect them, but that close proximity means its difficult to finagle the plugging in of the cable..and 'more protected" makes sense too, since the connection is inside the tender..

ok, I guess I answered my own questions! 

Scot


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

One more photo before I let this go. Nice clean looking connection. The cable is free to move side to side on curves,no tension.


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

nice! thanks Paul..
Scot


----------



## jaug (Oct 18, 2011)

Scott, I use the same connectors that Greg posted a pic of but mine are 7 pin. They come pre wired with #22 stranded wire in 7 colors. I found them on eBay 10 pairs for about $11 and free shipping. I have also just purchased some 4 pin connectors of the same type. If you're looking just type in "miniature connector" with whatever PIN number you need.


----------

