# Simple RC



## rbwhale (Sep 15, 2008)

I've just finished my layout with 150 feet of a singe track (all my long _narrow_ yard will allow), and a switch yard with two switches. 
I have a new Aristo RS-3 and a Critter, which I will use for the switch yard only. I would like a _simple_ RC system that

lets me use an on board receiver for the RS-3, with track power supplied by an Ultima 10 amp power supply. The Critter
will have a receiver installed if and when I'm satisfied that the RS-3 works with the receiver.


I don't need remote switch controls and I doubt if I will ever run more than the two locomotives. I would like to be able to install the receiver

myself, and I would like the transmitter to be uncomplicated, without a bunch of functions I will never use. I may install sound someday but

it's not that important. I'm somewhat familiar with electronics and soldering, but I've never taken an RS-3 apart.


Yes, I'm looking for a Model A solution in a Space Shuttle world. Expense is a factor, too, given the state of the economy, but I'll pay any

reasonable price. Suggestions, please?

RB Whale


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

If you never want to run more than one loco, and you really want track power, then it doesn't get any simpler than using the Aristo-Craft Trackside Train Engineer. You won't have to modify your locos, and it will be lower cost than putting a receiver in every loco. Very reliable.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The aristo 75 mhz system, now discontinued, is very simple. It has very limited functionality, and range can sometimes be a problem. But I have found it works very well and it has been quite reliable for me. I still have four locos running using the 75 mhz Train engineer and no problems, on a layout not much bigger than yours and all track powered. It's limited but reliable.



An additional advantage is it will drop into the plug and play socket on your RS-3 




Since it's discontinued, it might be a little hard to fnd, but there are thousands of them out there and the success of the new Aristo system will have to drive the price of the old 75 mhz system way down. You might try ebay



You might have a hard time getting the 75 mhz receiver into the speeder. Aristo makes an HO version which is harder to find, but I've seen those on ebay as well.

If you only ever want to run one loco at a time Del's suggestion is a good ne


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Since he stated he wanted an onboard receiver, I would recommend one from Remote Control systems. 

Does your RS-3 have the PNP socket or not? You may have to open it to be sure. 

Regards, Greg


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

RCS doesn't make an onboard that works with track power. I assume you could adapt one, but Tony does not make them to run on track power


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## rbwhale (Sep 15, 2008)

The reason for the receivers would be to run the switcher in and out of the yard without a lot of block switching. The RS-3 is one of the newer ones, with the MU plugs and the battery/track power switch, so I _assume_ it's plug and play (yeah, my drill instructor gave me the info on the perils of "assume" long ago). I hear RCS mentioned frequently but, as you point out, I want to use track power. Are there any other transmitter/on-board receivers systems that will run on track power? Failing that, I guess I'll start trolling on E-Bay for the 75Mhz system mentioned. I do appreciate all the suggestions, and I never cease to be amazed at the breadth of knowledge displayed here. 

RB Whale


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

There are not that many options. Your other option might be QSI, whch runs on track power an has the advantage of excellent sound. I use it and like it. But it's significantly more expensive. There's a guy over at the Large Scale Central Forum who is detailing the design of his own system, and he's talking about making it available. You might check out his thread in the power and sound forum over at LSC


The 75 mhz system can still be found new at some dealers--RLD hobbies has it, for ex. On our railway I give the transmitter to little kids and they run it with no trouble. Installing th 75 mhz reciever in the critter will take sme soldering, but should not be that hard. In the RS-3 it's dead easy


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For the 75mhz unit, you may want to install a black kat antenna. It is a tuned wire wound coil acting as an antenna instead of the long wire the Aristo 75 mhz unit has. 

I placed one under my Aluminum body RDC to improve the reception as there was no place to run the antenna wire provided by Aristocraft.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony (RCS) does not advertise that his systems work with track power, mainly because he does not want the headaches of supporting pickups, but his stuff works off track power just fine. 

Regards, Greg


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## rbwhale (Sep 15, 2008)

Ah....thanks for that heads-up Greg. The RCS people I've talked to in the past have been pleasant and professional,
and this gives me another option


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I remember asking tony specifically some years ago if RCS worked with track power and he said it could be made to work with track power but he did not support it or recommend it.That was the word from the owner, which is why I didn't suggest it. If it works, great, let us know


If you plug his PNP receiver into an aristo socket, will it work with track power? Work well? Would you need some capacitors to even out the variations in voltage? I don't know--the aristo PNP board has a rectifier on it? Or is the rectifier on the receiver? I assume if you installled RCS for track power in an Aristo critter, with no PNP socket, you would need to include a bridge rectifier and some high uf caps. Maybe I'm wrong about that?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you all for the words of confidence in RCS. 
Mike is correct. 
For a number of reasons, none of the RCS ESC's are designed to work with a constant voltage supplied by track power. 
They could be made to do so quite effectively, provided of course, the track power is fed through an adequate bridge rectifier and filtered with at least 2-3,000 µf of capacitance. 
I may offer such a device again one day, but it will definitely not work with the PnP ESC's I make. 

My focus is on battery power. Even though I know I am missing out on a lot of business. It is my view that track power unnecessarily complicates an installation.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's nice to know your design only needs one sixth the capacity to run from track power Tony! (The Aristo TE needs SIX 2,200 mfd caps to work on track power, as stated in their forum). 

If all it takes is a bridge rectifier and a filter, hmm... 

Tony, are there other things that should be done if one MUST use your system on track power? 

Regards, Greg


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## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

You need to isolate the motor to install the receiver (just like battery power). Now you need to find room for the capacitors. Why not just install a battery pack instead?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Greg. 

Actually what I should have said was the capacitance should be about 1,000 µf per amp of current.

Professional ettiquette prevents me from commenting on a competitors product. Other than to say I am sure Mr Polk will stand by his products and sort out any shortcomings they may have. 

In many RCS installations, such as brass locos, the best way we can get good range is to use the track as an antenna. 

The idea works quite well for some installations and not so well in others. Part of the black art of R/C. 

Using track power precludes using the track as an antenna connection. 
Yes, I know a decoupling capacitor of the correct value would solve that problem but, unless the installation is done by a qualified installer I refuse to assist consumers to do it themselves. 
In over 20 years of working in this field I came to the conclusion long ago track power as the on board source, is more trouble than it is worth. Others swear by it.


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## rbwhale (Sep 15, 2008)

"Simple" is a word I will not use in these forums again. Del, I suppose that the reason I want to avoid battery power is that I just don't enjoy fiddling,
and I think battery power conversion may be beyond my level of competence. On the other hand, now it seems that I must use capacitors in the TE

(To smooth out variations in the voltage I guess), and that requires more fiddling, too. I can't make a decision yet, so I will have to do more

investigation before biting the bullet...and hoping the bullet does not bite back. 

Thanks, everyone, for helpful answers that, to most of you, must seem like kindergarden-level questions. 


RB Whale


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

hehe "Simple" is a trigger that gets the natives excited


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Your questions are totally reasonable--this stuff is confusing

The old Aristo 75 mhz TE will work in your RS-3 right out of the box, no additional capacitors needed. It plugs into the PnP socket, and you link it to the transmitter, and you're done. I've installed six of them, using both the PnP socket and by wiring them directly, and they work fine with no additional caps. I still run four locos with it, using conventional constant track power. Wiring the critter will be a little harder. As Del said, you have to isolate the motor from power. But it's not all that hard, I can do it and I'm a total chump with electricity. 


The NEW "Revolution" TE seems to require additional capacitors to run on track power. The caps are kind of like batteries that charge instantly, and they can be used to run the decoder when track power is sketchy. I use a single capacitor, for example, with led lights in passenger cars. It prevents flicker


Track vs battery is an old subject of debate. Battery has no appeal to me, but many people swear by it.


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## rbwhale (Sep 15, 2008)

If I understand the 75 Mhz TE, you need an on board receiver and the transmitter. There is a is a receiver advertised on E-Bay, a 55491 "on board train engineer receiver"; is this the one I want? The ad says that you pair it with the 55003 Transmitter. Thanks.

RB Whale


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, the 55491

It's pretty basic and it's discontinued--you should not have to pay a lot for it


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

Hi, 

We used the Aristo-Crest 75Mhz HO outfit for a single exibition season some years ago. With on-board batteries. The components are very small 










We were not very happy with the range of the transmiitter. We had to stay within a few feet near our locos to operate them safely. If I remember right, the HO outfit is not suitable for larger motors or locos. Beside this, the 75 Mhz is illegal to use for models in Germany. It is reserved for commercial 1 : 1 airplanes. 

For years we are using a German system. Schroeder´s Train Control which utilises a 433 Mhz band. Can be used with track power or on-board batteries. 










Unfortunately Massoth uses the same frequency for their DCC system, but with a much stronger signal. So Schroeder´s TC tends to fail, when a Massoth transmitter is around. 

This year we are playing around with 2,4 GHz systems. We like the idea of beeing independendant from the toy train makers and their products. The choice for RC components is very much larger outside the model railway world. It seems to be cheaper as well. The receivers and controllers can be very tiny. 










Compared to other RC systems you don´t have to bother any longer about channels anymore. RC people know, what problems sometimes occur at meetings, where 40 Mhz or 27 Mhz systems is used. 
I am very happy with the possiibilities and the range of the 2,4 GHz transmitters. On the other side, the transmitters are very cumbersome, compared to e.g. Aristo-Crest systems. So Aristo is probably on a good way with theit 2,4 GHz Revolution TE. 

Trackpower and RC works quite well, as long as the track is clean. Most large scale railroaders still use brass track, which needs cleaning very often, if you don´t run trains regularely. Steel or nickel silver is the better choice for trackpower or sending digital signals via rail. 

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


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## rmcintir (Apr 24, 2009)

Fritz/Juergen, you guys rock!

You described why I decided to design and build my own RC system.

32 locos simultaneously
6 loco accessories in addition to directional lighting (user defined latched or momentary, default high or low) 

100 non locomotive accessories (turnouts, etc)
30 amp motor control
BEMF slow speed operation
Fail-safe to shut down locos on signal loss
10 channels each transmitter (32 locos each so people can play together)
User loadable 6 point speed tables to tune individual locomotive speed
MU capability (yes, you must push a button on the loco but how often do I make/break consists? It takes about 10 seconds)

434 MHz (but technically, easily changeable to any other digital radio frequency including 2.4 GHz, radios go up in price however)
Average maximum of 75-100 YARD tested range (434 MHz) I don't recommend it as I can't see the locomotive well at that distance!
Track AND battery power options, yes a capacitor is required, when you can move as slow as this you need them on dirty track 


Quite inexpensive especially considering 32 locos and 30 amps power control!
I have already started designing a servo steam receiver that will work the same as the electric locos 

I will never be held hostage to a vendor because *I built it and I wrote all the software!*

Transmitter:









or

Throttle on the front:









Still working on the kit, doing some heavy testing over the next few weeks. 

Do I think it will meet everyone's needs? nope. Does it meet mine? yup. Does it meet my friends? probably.

Sorry to go a bit off the "simple RC" topic. Still, if you have a PNP loco it is designed to plug right in. Here is a video of the original non-BEMF board install, latest board is much cleaner:


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