# Economic Impact on YOUR LS layout



## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

For many of us the impact of the economy is not good, to say the least. 

How do you ANTICIPATE that will this apparently souring world-wide economy affect YOUR activities within the large-scale hobby? My own answer will follow, but for you who live stateside and around the world--Great Britain, continental Europe, Australia, Canada and elsewhere, you surely MUST be seeing some very alarming trends that may substantially affect how you approach this hobby. So tell us, how you see this situation affecting YOUR layout.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron,

Interesting Poll. 

For me, my disposable income has been cancelled as of last October due to the birth of Luke. All purchases related to the railroad have to be absolutely required. The only maintenance I did this year was to buy stone dust for a layout reorganization. That's not to say I didn't purchase anything. Some purchases were made this year when some windfall money came in the form of presents and a company bonus. I am not planning on the bonus money next year. Birthday cash might become trains, but I might have to discipline myself to lay a $20 bill aside every month until I have enough saved up to buy one in person somewhere (likely at ECLSTS). 

I answered "Other, Special Purchases" because I do plan to buy an Aristo 2-8-0 when they come out. Maybe not the day they hit the shelves, but hopefully by the end of 2009.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, 
An interesting poll and as usual not a single answer that adequately fits my situation. No offense meant but I tend to be a roaund peg in a square hole world anyway. 

My situation is such that I purchase for future or percieved use currently. I'd been hoping to get to starting a layout this year but with my mother moving in with us those plans were shelved. Some things need to happen before I can start a layout anyway. A shed needs replaced and a cottage for my mother's art studio built. Then I can think about where the trians will fit in. My purchasing focus had been on rolling stock and Track but once the track prices jumped thru the roof that put the hold on track purchases and I'll make do with what I have for now. My rolling stock purchases had been put on hold too. Honestly I've not spent much money on trains ina while. Recently I won two cars on Ebay at a reasonable price. As usual they were improperly packaged and ahd some damage. Nothing drastic (couplers that will be re-placed) and not unexpected (listing said no original boxes) so I knew the prospect was there. 
So the possibility for a layout by the end of next summer is there. It will need to be done relatively cheaply though using materials (mostly) that I have on hand. I've been buying track right along so no worries there. Most cars have metal wheels but I believe I'll be upgrading to KAdees so there will be some expense there at soem point. Roadbed will be an expense but I think I've got a "fund" for that set aside. At least for now I do, we will see what the next year or so brings. If I see a good deal on track or rollings stock I'll pick it up and I hope to ge to Ridge Road Station this weekend as I'll be in that general area on Saturday but it's not a positive. Maybe I'll pick something up there? No worries and no garuntees. 

Chas


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

You makje it very difficult to select one checkbox at all. 

My hobby activities ARE subject to the vagarities of the ecconomy, but that is not going to affect much of my purchases because I don't intend to purchase much this year anyway.

I might buy some track, but that is not the only thing I might buy.

I might buy more rolling stock, but that is not the only thing I might buy.

I run Live Steam so I have no Power Pack to upgrade, besides, you threw "Only" into the selection again.

I may scratch build something, but I am not limiting myself to that.

Dont have a garden, so that is not applicable.

I have ripped up all my track and am starting to dissassemble some of my elevated structure, so I guess one might say I am "cutting back" in some manner, but not because I am quitting the hobby, I am going to ENHANCE/CORRECT what I already have (last winter nearly destroyed parts my elevated structure whereas previous 6 winters did nothing to it!)

I WILL be making some purchases this year associated with the CMBY RY.

I have GIVEN away some pieces of what I have, but I am NOT leaving the hobby at all.

I might drop a subscription to a magazine or two, but probably not associated with the Garden Railroad hobby... only get one of those (SitG)


So, what choice do I make in the poll? I voted the last one, but it really is not my situation.


I am not saying that the ecconomy is not a problem, I may have to curtail purchases in several areas, or scratch build "more", but I am not at the point where it is all or nothing in any area of the hobby.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

No real changes, but then the Mrs. and I have always lived well below our means.....


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm stocked up and ready to go. Don't know where yet? 
But with or w/o buying more I have lots that needs to be done .


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I can't really say I'm scaling anything back, but since my purchases tend to be more materials for building than track/rolling stock, it's easy to fit into the existing budget. I may put off the purchase of a sound or control system, but that has not been a front-burner project anyway. 

Later, 

K


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

I've got enough stuff stashed away to keep me more than busy for the next year though I may have to curtail any major purchases. 

-Brian


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2008)

Well, after receiving my quarterly 401k report this morning, and finding out i took a 65% hit so far in my future retirement plan ive come to the conclusion that all train purchases will cease.. i have plenty to keep me happy. we will see what a couple of years will do for the economy, but im not hopeful...
time will tell, its a good thing i bought most of what i wanted already...
Nick...


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 10/16/2008 7:18 PM
You makje it very difficult to select one checkbox at all. 

My hobby activities ARE subject to the vagarities of the ecconomy, but that is not going to affect much of my purchases because I don't intend to purchase much this year anyway.

I might buy some track, but that is not the only thing I might buy.

I might buy more rolling stock, but that is not the only thing I might buy.

I run Live Steam so I have no Power Pack to upgrade, besides, you threw "Only" into the selection again.

I may scratch build something, but I am not limiting myself to that.

Dont have a garden, so that is not applicable.




I assumed a kind of logic that does not work even for me. I was thinking along this line: You realize the economy is going sour. Your investment income has dropped substantially with no immediate hope that will change. Your job or your retirement income is now at risk. What do you do? Many if not most of us tend to be optimists here. We will go as far as we can and maybe just a little farther if we think we can get away with it. 

Would you go for completing that last section of track? Perhaps you have been waiting for the opportunity for that one locomotive or that set of passenger cars you know are coming out this year. Have enough of these things to get by? Then maybe you can satisfy yourself with scratch-building some structures or taking a few relatively inexpensive parts and constructing your dream locomotive. And if you have a true garden railway there is no way to avoid putting money into that. Almost certainly most of us will have to be cutting back--maybe substantially. The economic trends dictate that our buying habits will almost certainly have to change. But for many, so far it seems, the best choice is "other."


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## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

We have everything we need or really want and our buying has been limited to sales and whims for the last several years. I don't see this changing.


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## dawinter (Jan 2, 2008)

Fortunately I won't be changing my hobby activities - and related costs - very much. With my given space full of track and all the rolling stock (46) and engines (10) I'll ever want, I was pretty much topped out a few years ago. I build my own structures and they cost nearly nothing but space is a premium as well so....

Lately I'm down to spending $50.00 to $75.00 a month, Max, anyway. I pay $40.00 for my newspaper for crying out load. If I cut back at all it will be on eating out. That's getting really expensive because no one will work for slave wages any longer.

Dave


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## Fred (Jan 2, 2008)

This year I finished buying the necessary track & switches to complete the railroad's expansion. The 6 engines I have now will do me for quite some time. I do need more frt cars, and next year will be like this year, in that frt cars will be purchased when funds become available (OT at work or tax refunds). I have never had any great dal of hobby money at any one time, all railroad related items have been bought over a 15 year period of time. The state of the economy hasn't affected my job at all therefore my hobby spending will not be affected by the current economy either.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a case of getting you priorities straight. You quit buying clothes, scrimp on food, starve the dogs, tell the kids, sorry no toys this year........so you can still buy all those trains you really need.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

The economy does not effect my RR very much. 10 years ago when I bought my house I went into the venture very cost effective ( cheap) I only did what I had to do to get the house on the lot. The first three years a stepladder was my front steps.









I based everything on take home pay. So everything else, Over Time Pay, Expences checks, and Tax refunds are Gravey. 

I can there fore do pretty much what I want right now.

I have little fund boxes I toss money in. Change, Dollar bills, maybe a few 5 and 10's The boxes are sealed. I never look what's in there Till I think there is enough to do something. Then I open it up to see what's in there.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

*I'm too worried about the full scale economy to be worrying about the 1:22.5 economy.







* 
Or drop all of your subscriptions and learn to love bombed state of our state.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Madman on 10/17/2008 8:51 PM
*I'm too worried about the full scale economy to be worrying about the 1:22.5 economy.







* 
Or drop all of your subscriptions and learn to love bombed state of our state.




Well Dan I sympathize with you, but down here in Texas so far the budgets are balance both at the state level and the cities(Houston). I guess we are just fortunate. City and State leaders are, however, planning cut backs so we do not get into budget trouble in the future whatever that may hold. The problem for retired people like myself is the rising costs and declining value of the dollar. But......now the dollar seems to be gaining on other currencies. So who knows.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey guys, just thought you'd like to know.

In the way that Ron configured the poll you're not limited to choosing just one option in the answers (i.e. they're check boxes, not radio buttons.)


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## Dave F (Jan 2, 2008)

Luckily, my major expanses were laid by last year with the buildout of the new raised benchwork system. I had not planned on making any major purchases this year anyway. I'll still pick up a few cars and maybe a loco or two, but that's about all I had planned. I may look into new power, but that's not a priority right now. 

So short answer is.. I'll cut back slightly. But that was on the books anyway.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

If everyone does quit buying products.....guess what? 

Whilst this would be a wrong move during economically tight period from a "macro" view, but the one held at the "micro" view for sure, as shown above. 

Me? Just hope the Jones' keep it up for the US sake!


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## bearswood (Jan 2, 2008)

The economy did not stop me but a tree did. On August 4th of this year, the top of an elm tree in the front yard decided it wanted to vist the kitchen and dining room. The insurance paid for the damages supposedly but mold decided to take hold in just ten days. I did not have mold coverage so it cost me another $10,000 on top of the $10,000 they paid. The complete roof, ceiling joist and half the drywall. We had to eat every meal at restaurants for 8 weeks, that was not cheap. My new garage/shop and my railline went bye-bye. I guess I will have to wait until next year like the Cubs and White Sox. I will just keep building locos and cars.

George from northern Indiana


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## farmerted (Jan 2, 2008)

As with others, my answer lies somewhere in between these choices. While I will not be dropping out of the hobby altogether, I will be cutting back SIGNIFICANTLY. With things changing at work and at home, you do what you have to do. See my classified ad at: http://www.mylargescale.com/Shopping/Classifieds/tabid/61/agentType/View/PropertyID/195/Default.aspx

-Jon (aka Farmer Ted)


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I have trimed back some and only buy what I really need such as QSI boards to get more of my locos converted to DCC. Just now taking longer to do. Later RJD


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Good excuse for learnin' to scratchbuild alot more, and bashing what I've already got layin round.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting. So far, for a full third of you respondents, your "hobby activities are relatively immune to the economy." So far I do not know if that will be the case with me, so I never answered my own poll. Not yet anyway.


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## markperr (Jan 7, 2008)

My wife stated it most eloquently just a few days ago. 

"It seems lately that you are only working on your layout or running your trains in response to the necessity of others people pleasures (Open House/Annual Halloween and Christmas display), and you don't seem to be running trains for your own enjoyment". I just looked at her and nodded my head.

How can I justify spending hundreds of dollars on engines, rolling stock, and track when I have a kid in college, another going in next year, her losing her permanent employment and now working on a three month contractor status, not to mention Michigan's horribly unstable economy.

I'll bide my time, and when the money and time situation improves (perhaps several years), I'll get back into it for my own personal pleasure.

Mark


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markperr on 10/28/2008 9:39 AM
My wife stated it most eloquently just a few days ago. 

"It seems lately that you are only working on your layout or running your trains in response to the necessity of others people pleasures (Open House/Annual Halloween and Christmas display), and you don't seem to be running trains for your own enjoyment". I just looked at her and nodded my head.

How can I justify spending hundreds of dollars on engines, rolling stock, and track when I have a kid in college, another going in next year, her losing her permanent employment and now working on a three month contractor status, not to mention Michigan's horribly unstable economy.

I'll bide my time, and when the money and time situation improves (perhaps several years), I'll get back into it for my own personal pleasure.

Mark







But Mark if you already have a layout and trains, why can't you enjoy what you've already got? By your reasoning its like saying "I cannot enjoy dinner because there are people starving in India" or something like that. yes you can, you enjoy the pleasures that are within your grasp, no need to purchase more.


Enjoy what you already have. Thats what I'm planning to do, I dont anticipate any *major* hobby purchases till at least the BTS next year, so I'm going to continue working with what I already have. I figure as long as I have at least one train to run around at least one loop- no matter how small, I can still enjoy my hobby.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 10/28/2008 12:09 PM
. . . if you already have a layout and trains, why can't you enjoy what you've already got? By your reasoning its like saying "I cannot enjoy dinner because there are people starving in India" or something like that. yes you can, you enjoy the pleasures that are within your grasp, no need to purchase more.


Enjoy what you already have. Thats what I'm planning to do, I dont anticipate any *major* hobby purchases till at least the BTS next year, so I'm going to continue working with what I already have. I figure as long as I have at least one train to run around at least one loop- no matter how small, I can still enjoy my hobby. 

Great philosophy. With me, however, the pleasure is not in the running of the trains but in the ongoing construction of the layout. I can certainly run the trains more, I suppose. I do that relatively rarely. On the other hand, I don't need to do anything more than my favorite activity of researching and planning[/i] in order to enjoy this hobby. I don't need to actually purchase anything--at least not for awhile.


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

This is a good news, bad news situation. As the economy hits the growler, and more and more people become unemployed. My work load increases, because I make eligibility judgements on unemployment claims. The good news is I can work as much overtime as I want. The bad news is I can work as much overtime as I want. My "reason for life," which SHE insists I call her, insisted that we move closer to her office, instead of being centrally located between our two jobs. Being the big hearted, kind, and typically whipped spouse my friends tell me I am, I ageed. So now, my commute runs three and a half hours a day, not that I am bitter. I ended up with a little over a half acre lot, and a huge garage. I am still plotting and planning what I will do. My schedule does cut down on the time I can devote to my first love, trains. So I am cutting back a little bit, due to time constraints, though I am getting all antsy about picking up bargains. I get all glassy eyed looking at ads and shows. It is fast approaching the point where I feel like a puppy dog in a world ful of fire hydrants. SHE tells me that this is all part of the hobby. I have to agree, because SHE tells me to.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I make most of my stuff-that's what I find to be fun about the hobby. Really don't need anymore cars or track. Have several projects to do, but they don't involve buying too much. May try selling some records on ebay to earn a bit.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 10/21/2008 10:05 PM
Interesting. So far, for a full third of you respondents, your "hobby activities are relatively immune to the economy." So far I do not know if that will be the case with me, so I never answered my own poll. Not yet anyway. 
Well, we are in a rich man's hobby afterall......


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## CLRRNG (Sep 26, 2008)

*My railroad is non existant except for it being in boxes and in storeage. I plan on not spending much of anything. My hobby will be religated to upgrading my loco's to Airwire/battery power so I can run on other's railroads. May break out the airbrush and do some detailing. Other then that the CLRR will stay in storeage for another time. I hope for sunny skies on my end but will keep the faith. *


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm going to build a couple things, maybe buy some detail stuff, and sell off several others (including locos). I hope it doesn't come to the point of liquidation, but it might.


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## majral (Jan 13, 2008)

For me having survived previous recessions and unemployment in Ireland 1980s and the UK in the 1990s all I feel is a real sense of de javu and that I am running out of opportunities to start again if my investments and savings are wiped out once again as I grow older. 

I suppose the one thing I have learned is never to trust any one that either wants to loan you or more importantly offers to manage your money.

As a long time modeller though a newcomer to garden railways this year is really all about consolidation, I have finished the substructure and tracklaying on the main line, I hope to finance further purchases from the sale of small scale items.

I have basically reached saturation point with locomotives and rolling stock and will concentrate on upgrading and modifying the existing fleet to develop my railways unique identity and to scratch build some structures. 

Its questionable whether the recent flood of relatively high quality but low cost models from the Far East has benefited the hobby. Most of us are overstocked with locomotives and rolling stock, while we suffer in terms of diminishing returns as we stretch ourselves to acquire the latest from Bachmann, Accucraft as our older models sit on dusty shelves.

John


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Economic Impact? 

I'm looking for part of the billions in government bailout money. The Gator & Swamp RR hasn't even laid any track yet and we're already looking at receivership possibilities. 

After 10 years, the wife lost her job in May this year when here company was absorbed by a sister company out of state. So, while the wife is back in school to get certified as a medical billing coder, my company of 8 years lays off 10% of the workforce on the 13th of Nov and now we’re both out of work and looking. 

A circle of track around the Christmas tree looks to be the only railroad operating in this household for the foreseeable future.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll settle for a 1:29 scale piece of the bailout money


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I called two hobby shops in blue/rust belt states this past weekend. Both told me that business was booming. Looking at prices on eBay too, the hobby does not seem to be missing a beat.


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

None of the Above seem to match my criteria. I have been through hard times before, and managed. During these last few years of relative prosperity, I bought and put stuff aside for a "Rainy Day".(I wish the British Government had done the same!)
Yes, I will have to think hard before I buy any items that are not essential right across the board, but I have the layout almost completely tracked, the rest I can build or wait for.

I'll enjoy what I have at hand.
Rod


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey, things have changed since i posted on Oct 16:
I answered "Other, Special Purchases" because I do plan to buy an Aristo 2-8-0 when they come out. Maybe not the day they hit the shelves, but hopefully by the end of 2009. 

Something snapped inside me, and I found that I had buyers for the trains I currently have. Out the door when 5 100-ton hoppers and in came three boxcars and a flat car. It also would seem that I have sold a LGB mogul, and along with it, a boxcar, flat car, gondola car and caboose. (I haven't seen the cash yet, so until then it is not officially sold). That sale will fund the purchase of a mallet, which upon searching back through the archives looking for other stuff, is a loco I have wanted for a long long time. And with the aristo deal on buying a loco and getting a freight car, I do not have a loss of regular use cars. (The freight cars going with the mogul have not seen active use in over 15 years.). 

Then, to top that all off, my in-laws are buying two of the new boxcars and the flat cars to give back to me as Christmas presents. Theoretically, I could buy more freight cars, perhaps a pair of 2 bay hoppers, but more likely, sound for the mallet. Pretty sweet, especially considering that just six weeks ago I was certain that I was not buying any more rolling stock or locomotives until the new 2-8-0. 

Also, while at Nicholas Smith trains outside Philly two weeks ago, the place was very buys with folks buying trains, bringing in old trains for repair, and general browsing. 

Vic made a good point too. Being satisfied with what we have. In my case, I was happy with everything I had, but decided to see if anyone was interested in what I had. The end result is that I feel like I have gotten more trains, but the reality is that there are fewer pieces on the shelves now than six weeks ago. However, the new boxcars (2 New Haven, one Boston and Maine) and the flat car (NH) are more my focus than 100-ton western maryland or reading and nothern hoppers. So, sometimes, when the new capitol is not available, getting the old capitol out of our trains to invest in new trains can be an option.

Mark


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark, sold your Mogul??? ...going to the Dark Side of standard gauge are we? 

I'm temped to test the sales waters also, as I've got too many engines that I've built over the years, being sans layout for a long time will do that, but its like selling children, each bash is unique in its appeal, its hard to let them leave the nest.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Luckily a good year working in Japan netted me enuff spare $$$ to pay for my Garratt and fund the cost of the impending Accucraft Royal Hudson - that fund is ring-fenced. 

However, the $$$$ are over there, and I am over here, and we have to eat every now and then. Gas costing a high of almost $14 a gallon, and us living out in the boonies, does not make for a healthy home-savings fund.... average household cost of living has gone up by about 22% this year in UK, but utilities have gone up by almost 33%. 

Our small selection of stocks and shares took a massive hit - we lost well into five figures on each of our three long-term funds, and they were in £££, not $$$. 

I really do worry about how some folks, many folks, in fact, will manage this coming winter, which is forecast to be pretty dire. 

Luckily, we live in a rural farming-type community, so we'll never be short of basic foodstuffs, but the little luxuries we used to enjoy that made life a bit more than simply breathing while vertical are long-gone. Only my little trains in the backyard, and my shooting hobbies are there. We travel as little as possible, except to my folks in Ontario and Oregon, that is. A lot more than most folks do, I dare say, but also a lot less, too. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

I spent just under $1000 this year (track it in a spreadsheet each month.) and most of that was for the Front Street building modules. The current project is bashing an Aristo center cab into a steeple cab, but once that's finished..... Come '09 we're cutting back to just some minor expenditures for landscaping items. I don't even look at my 401 and 457 statements anymore! But remember it's just a "rough patch", or so George said.


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Cutting back slightly is the only box that is anywhere near the truth. I am cutting back only because I have enough really. Just a few coal hoppers and maybe another loco in the future.

I can't honestly say that times are any harder now than in the past. In fact I've known it far worse. Being retired, and on a low fixed income, makes you balance your necessary expenditure very accurately. But as I don't have any other hobbies (than the 1:1 railroad volunteer job), a non-smoker and maybe a glass of some pleasant beverage at home I do have a small amount of money each month that I can put to railroad use. This can only happen of course when my car isn't in need of maintenance, taxation or insurance.

Like many I had the hard times when the kids were growing up and before they fledged and I always needed two jobs (on occasions three) so now I try to enjoy what I have.


Rod mentioned rainy days: it seems to me that Western governments are spending large sums on rainy days - but some one else's.


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## david bunn (Jan 4, 2008)

Here in Uk things are pretty dire.
Personnally I had to take three months off work to care for my ailing Mother who finally succumbed to Alzheimers a couple of months ago, dreadfull disease! This has had a knock on effect as it takes time to build up work again so the economic downturn has come at just at the wrong time! I will be ok when her estate is settled but until then money is tight with a capital T!!
The result of this is that I have been heavily into scratch building stock from basic materials.I really wanted some Accucraft 1.20 passenger cars to go with my K but couldn't afford even one so I have built some generic N/G cars from ply and balsa and to be fair I have had much more enjoyment out of this than just writing a cheque.Once I am financially stable again I will renew my 1stclass membership and post photos.
Large scale model railroading is a great way to take your mind off the woes of the world and there are always ways to enjoy the hobby without spending too much.
Regards from grey, miserable East Anglia.
Bunny


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

.deteled tsoP

cat
moc.srgvo.www


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

It now appears that we are in for a protracted recession. I would like to see how the state of the economy continues to affect those of us who operate large-scale model railroads. The economy has certainly taken a turn for the worse since then. And at that time we did not know the make-up of the new Congress or who would be President. It appears those elections were largely determined by the state of the economy. Since this poll came out we have been witnessing alarming job losses as the economy continues to slide downward. This can't help but affect more of us over time, including some of you who may have at first believed you were immune to what was happening out there. SO, have things changed for some of YOU since I first originated this poll?


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron,
Actually things for me have loosened up a bit. The only downfall so far has been a serious belief that my job will not be here and that of my wife's unless things turn around within a year or two. With all the un-scheduled costs I've had with the vehicles and the house lately I'm actually amazed we are still keeping up on things. I've even managed to find a few deals on Ebay from time to time and even thru the classifieds here. The girls had a good Christmas as well. This downturn isn't from me not spending money for sure! My complaint is the tires I had to buy were about 1 1/2 times more expensive and had to be shipped since there seems to be a tire shortage? The parts I've bought for maintenace itmes on the house were about 1 1/2 to double the price they were about a year ago. So no wonder folks are buying less in general. The prices are too high. The car dealers are saying no one is buying but credit is hard to come by so no new car for us in 2 months when the loan is paid off. We'll put the money into the minivan to keep ti running for a few more years. Where my wife works they had been expanding but had done the first few sections with cash thinking they'd finish with credit if need be. So business dried up AND the credit dried up so the expansion is on hold putting literally thousands of contractors out of work. Hmmm Bail out the banks? So they can give themselves bonuses? The only thing I see trickling down is higher prices so far. Even as the Barrel price of Crude drops or stay flat the pump prices here are climbing again.

(sigh)

Holding on for now in Western NY. Would like to get started this summer on a layout but it's not likely.

Chas


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The interesting aspect of where I am and how I make a living is that our area has never had much of an economy to begin with. In the last century we have had three major events in the valley. The first--the construction of the Copper River & Northwestern Railway and the development of the Kennecott copper mines had little impact on most of the Copper River valley except that the CRNW provided the first access into the interior by means of a railroad. That meant that people could travel as far inland as Chitina, mile 131 from the port of Cordova, then take the overland stage line up the Edgerton Trail to Willow Creek where it connected with the Richardson Trail which ended at Fairbanks. It was the existence of the Richardson that brought about the Army telegraph system and also a series of roadhouses including one at Copper Center. But all that activity amounted to nothing more than a simple existence. Then came the U.S. Army with the second world war. The Army cut a new road through from Dawson Creek, British Columbia, to Delta Junction, where the new Alcan intersected the Richardson Road (no longer simply a "trail"). The Army also developed the Tok-Cut Off which began at Tok and headed west to the Richardson, then south to a new junction town of Glennallen where the new road continued west to Palmer. Eventually that new road became Highway One. Glennallen became the new Road Commission district headquarters, replacing the one at Chitina. Then the Army left. But the largest impact by far was the development of the Alyeska Pipeline which ran from the North Slope to Valdez. This was the one activity which provided a huge jump to the economy of the valley that continues to this day. But after construction the economy began a slow downturn that by the mid-80s had become a full-blown local recession from which the valley never really recovered. Tourism helped somewhat, but the local recession returned a few years ago as it had during the mid 80s. This is the environment in which I have operated. The much larger national one is unlikely to affect us very much. It has not before. If anything we will likely emerge somewhat better off in a year or two because of a long-anticipated natural gas line which is set to be constructed from Delta Junction to Glennallen and across to Palmer. 

My point in all this is that my activities will continue much as before, although with a bit more caution. After all, what I am seeing or hearing at least, is indeed scary. However, I have not pulled back all that much. More to follow . . .


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

I got into this hobby while I was retired. Having a limited income has caused me to become more resourceful in building my layout.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

My credit card has been cut up, so no Ebay or online ordering period. I have picked up the odd Mack or so, but havent bought a major thing since San Val shut its doors. In fact I have taken to carving up what I already have, I'm rebashing some of my bashes, and will focus on these plus building my indoor layout, which I can do on the cheap for the most part. 

I am forcing myself to focus more on kitbashing and scratchbuilding, and NOT relying on the manufacturers anymore to produce what I'm interested in, theres going to be too much of a downturn in all model railroading across the board methinks, nothing but repaints from everyone for the next couple years...and look for more than a few items to be discontinued in the next year.


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

I had originally made the assumption that I might be able to rebuild things, reusing all the track and structures but that idea is flapping around like a dead fish for now so......The majority of work will be to reduce or eliminate the impact our ground vermin is having on the yard in general We have found that 10 gallons of castor oil leached into the ground will scare pretty much everything in the ground out. Now all we have to do is keep these dam moles the heck outta here.


Monies have been invested in new rock for the pond and other areas. This was a major priority needed since we only were able to put down a very scant first layer 2 years ago. We didn't want just your basic gray, white or brown/tan gravels so with what we chose (Château) At 100 bucks a ton and on top of that a hefty delivery fee because of where the product is in relation to our home......we have had to take it in stages. I did however learn that with the color grading we have chosen for things we could add a first layer of local granite aggregate. This greatly reduced the funds spent since it's only 12 bucks a ton.

We also found ourselves ripping pout a second floor bathroom due to a water and then mold/mildew issue. All better no but it necessitated in having to replace 12sqft of sub floor under a tub and toilet. Umpteen years of water seemed to have not been good for the substrate and a couple joists and wall plates. Life as a home owner.....I guess. Anyhow there will be one and only one purchase this year and that is a RH #6 that I needed last year to complete the line addition. All I can say was thank God we were able to get the bathroom done. I have no problem not doing a thing to the layout to have been able to take care of that. What a mess that was!

Judging by the poll results we're not like most here or at least most that have taken the time to poll. Still the whole situation eminds me a great deal of life circa 1973. Dad was on strike at the end of '72 with UAL and took a job as the night mechanic for a local Service station. I was promptly corralled into pumping gas for him so he could focus on service repairs. 
Being 11 years old at the time it was certainly an eye-opening experience in more ways than one. But I think it prepared me more for what has to be done now than I could ever imagine. Basically we have to just be more cautious and wise with what and how we do things. There's things we need, and things we want. he things we want are more of a "wish-list" and can be done wthout. Would rather not end up "Living in a van down by the river!!!!" freelancing as an in-home motivational speaker for teens.









I will say that it's interesting that copper prices are a third of what they were a year ago but like everything else....the price of products hasn't been adjusted to reflect it. So much for all those economic theories that were being slung around like cheap cliché's.


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## afinegan (Jan 2, 2008)

I am about to buy 300' of track and switches so it hasn't impacted me that much... I do need a layout to start with in the backyard , this was in planning when I started looking for houses, (asking to look at the backyard was one of the top priorities lol), Now I am done purchasing the house, the costs I though where going to be a lot more than I calculated which left me with some money to put a layout in the back, so I guess I got lucky in this regard. I am still at 1 live steam-engine a year atm, until I pick a lathe and a mill and start working on my own thing (or get a raise, haha).


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

I can't imagine how I would feel if I had caused so much worry and misery in the world due to my megalomania with other peoples money. To cause so many people, worldwide to loose their jobs, homes, pensions ...................the list could go on............ yet still have plenty to fall back on and the prospect of even more thanks to the generosity of taxpayers the world over defies comprehension. 


In the UK few of these who have assisted greatly in this catastrophe seem to have been given the boot - even having botched their highly paid jobs - and are still in their lucrative posts. Why do the politicos and others who have bailed the system out still think that these guys are still the best people to continue running the financial institutions!









Would you retain their services? I wouldn't.


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

It has no effect. I am spending like a drunken sailor. Buy buy buy. Hopefully more people will start to dump their good stuff and I can buy even more.


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## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Great Western on 02/13/2009 7:49 AM
I can't imagine how I would feel if I had caused so much worry and misery in the world due to my megalomania with other peoples money. To cause so many people, worldwide to loose their jobs, homes, pensions ...................the list could go on............ yet still have plenty to fall back on and the prospect of even more thanks to the generosity of taxpayers the world over defies comprehension. 


In the UK few of these who have assisted greatly in this catastrophe seem to have been given the boot - even having botched their highly paid jobs - and are still in their lucrative posts. Why do the politicos and others who have bailed the system out still think that these guys are still the best people to continue running the financial institutions!









Would you retain their services? I wouldn't. 




I think it was once refered to as the "Peter Principle". Now it's just Status Quo or for lack of a better description.....FUBAR!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

I am proceeding with plans to add as much as another 500 feet of track to the layout. 

In addition, I am adding an enormous amount of new passenger rolling stock and several new engines--all for the new tourist season.


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Not a darn thing. I didn't spend much last year, and having filled my junkbox, will spend less this year.

Les


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By Great Western on 02/13/2009 7:49 AM
I can't imagine how I would feel if I had caused so much worry and misery in the world due to my megalomania with other peoples money. To cause so many people, worldwide to loose their jobs, homes, pensions ...................the list could go on............ yet still have plenty to fall back on and the prospect of even more thanks to the generosity of taxpayers the world over defies comprehension. 


In the UK few of these who have assisted greatly in this catastrophe seem to have been given the boot - even having botched their highly paid jobs - and are still in their lucrative posts. Why do the politicos and others who have bailed the system out still think that these guys are still the best people to continue running the financial institutions!









Would you retain their services? I wouldn't. 








Retaining their services isn't the question. The proper question is, how do we get rid of them? You blokes all went for personal disarmament. And not for the first time, I might add. Happy now? In the US southern states, our new Fearless Leader is on record about grumping: "Those people only worry about their bibles and guns." Damn right. And don't forget it.

Les


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## Biblegrove RR (Jan 4, 2008)

After the 1st post I lost my job of 10+ years in the Motorcycle Industry. The company had been in business for 37 years. I went from the original family owners, then through 5 Corporate owners in the time I was there. One being Cerberus (now owners of Chrysler) the Largest private equity firm in the world. No clue about the Motorcycle distribution business we had been successful at, just high paid bean counters! They sold to a Korean company that only devoted 3 months to selling our side of the company. With potential buyers at the table, the decided to liquidate. We were still profitable too! Go figure.... 
I eagerly took another position with a California based company (that alone should explain why) I was laid off Dec. 1st after the economy took it's 1st major dump and the co. decided to forgo the call center I was to operate. Now am lucky to even have a 3rd job at all! And yes it's in the Motorcycle distribution business based out of Louisiana, still family owned and cautiously moving forward (1/2 my former income) but nonetheless, MOVING forward. Of course all I was able to aquire in this time was enough retaining blocks to finish my wall. I was able to move some helmets I had in the garage as samples from the Cali company the day before our clubs Winter show. I was on a mission for track (priority) so I can finally start laying it this Spring. I was very fortunate to meet Robbie at RLD Hobbies and got a sweet deal on a 12x6' box of the AMS track. He is pretty much a local dealer for me and am very glad to have met him at the show. Now I am in need of a rail bender for flex track and to reconfigure the stack of old LGB stuff in the basement. I will have to be pleased with the 1 R/C engine and stock already aquired from last year. Just have to git 'er done now! hehe... 
P.S. I will be travelling all of Iowa, Illinois and Mo. every other week. So of course I will be trying to visit every lMuseum/layout/club/hobby store I can while on the road.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron,

Since my last post on Nov 26, I lost my job. Since that time, I have been actively seeking employment. I will be closer to you next week, as I have an interview in Vancouver. Certainly that is a lot closer than Pennsylvania!! Anyway, these guys were a former customer at my old company, and I might be starting an office for them here in the states. Things are looking very promising at the moment. But what does that do for my train spending? It means that I will be more or less working with what I have for the forseeable future. The layoff was such an utter shock and we were not well prepared. The financial goals of having 6 months worth of bills saved is now the critical goal. We had paid down quite a bit of debt over the years, and as a consequence, did not have much saved. Now, things are different. An added benefit has been that I am better focused on my career goals. 


However, despite the lack of a job, I have managed to squeeze in some hobby time here and there. Specifically, plow trains for the 3 or 4 plowable snows I've had here. I also fixed my live steam locomotive and steamed her up. Then I tore her down again to put on a fresh coat of paint. I bought some Tamika paints before I stopped to consider how latex paint would do with heat. No matter, took the flat black, silver aluminum and semi gloss and painted the wheels, siderods and cab on my new mallet. Yes, Vic, I did sell one of my 2 LGB moguls. She was a 24182, a New York Central digital sound mogul. Now, she lives in suburban London, along with that old USA boxcar, bachmann gon and flat, and Delton drover's caboose. The proceeds of that sale went directly to pay for the new mallet. In retrospect, had I know I was getting laid off, I would have skipped the mallet. But, for now, I am glad I have it. Don't worry, I still have my 2019S, and despite her age, she still runs great! The sound system still mostly works, although I think it is time to switch it over to a Phoenix or other digital unit. I also have been using this time to repair and repaint a couple of Colorado Models buildings that have been sort of coming apart. Fixed them with wood and deck screws so now they are sturdy. 



So I guess my contributions to the hobby are in the form of less than $20 purchases for obvious reasons. As time and funding allow, more New Haven stock will be added. Good thing that 2-8-0 won't be here any time soon!! 

Mark


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 02/20/2009 10:30 AM
Ron,

Since my last post on Nov 26, I lost my job. Since that time, I have been actively seeking employment. I will be closer to you next week, as I have an interview in Vancouver. Certainly that is a lot closer than Pennsylvania!! Anyway, these guys were a former customer at my old company, and I might be starting an office for them here in the states. Things are looking very promising at the moment. 


Mark 


Does this mean you might be moving to the West Coast ? If so, even though it might be something of a cultural shock, I think you will find the Pacific Northwest to be a very pleasant place to live. Good luck with it. 

Sorry to learn about your layoff. Unfortunately I expect to see a lot more of these before the economy settles out--and that is MANY months away.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron,

I'd actually be setting up an office here in PA, working with the guys out there from here. But, I fear that this will make me something of a BC Rail fan. Already, I started thinking about a BC Rail RDC-1...


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah. You mean Vancourver BC. Well, nothing wrong with being a BC rail fan. Good luck with your endeavors.


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark

BC Rail (and the old PGE that preceded it) was a very interesting railroad. The line along Howe Sound from N Vancouver to Squamish is an incredible piece of engineering in about as scenic location that exists anywhere.

In the not too distant past, BC Rail was a big user of Alcos ... and even stabled a Royal Hudson for tourist service. 

You could do far worse in choosing a prototype.

Regards ... Doug


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

On the other hand, I do not recall seeing much BC Rail stock available for sale in this scale. Am I wrong?


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

My wife was packaged off after 20 years with a forestry company. This just last week. 

I am in the process of upgrading and moving my G-scale system outside to the back yard. By the time the dust settles I expect to shell out approx 4-5K over the next few months. 

Times are not very good however my rationale is simple.... invest now for later may not be. 


Life is short and really, it's only money. And the trains will be there when the money is not. 

gg


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## mocrownsteam (Jan 7, 2008)

My job in electronics manufacturing got eliminated three weeks ago. Orders just went in the tank around the end of November and 66 of us got the chop. The good news is my wife has a good job with the U.S. Army (civil employee) and she carries our health insurance so no worries there. Got 10 weeks pay in settlement and I can collect unemployment for at least 49 weeks. House and cars paid for with no major bills so I'm feeling that I'll ride this out.

As far as the hobby goes I spent the last year and a half buying parts and pieces (live steam) so I have plenty to work on and expect to limit my hobby purchases to raw material items and the occasional "can't resist item" on Ebay. I'm 57 so I don't know what will happen in the job market for me.

Mike McCormack
Hudson, Massachusetts


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By markoles on 02/20/2009 11:00 AM
Ron,

I'd actually be setting up an office here in PA, working with the guys out there from here. But, I fear that this will make me something of a BC Rail fan. Already, I started thinking about a BC Rail RDC-1... 



























Mark: Best wishes and good luck in your quest re new employment. Should you be in Vancouver, look up "Art Knapp Trains" where you can get BC Rail rolling stock.. 

gg


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks GG and Doug,

See? There are always positive things happening, even when other things don't go as we expect. It is too bad that I missed the Budd cars, as it seems BC Rail ended their passenger service in 2002. Was that railroad bought out by CP? It looks like the 2-8-0 is either still in service or is being restored to service on at least a portion of the old BC rail property. I probably won't have time to check out Art Knapps, but maybe if things work out, there will be time in the future.


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## Dougald (Jan 2, 2008)

Mark

BC Rail is now owned and operated by CN.

It has had a long and colourful history ... first as PGE and then as BC Rail. The line runs through dramatic scenery and had interesting equipment. Although locos may often require painting and detailing, Art Knapp does arrange for some rolling stock to be painted. The RDC passenger service was discontinued several years ago but I have fond memories of my trip by Budd car to Prince George and return. 

On subsequent trips to Vancouver, a drive south toward the border will bring you to Art Knapp's while the old BC Rail line runs north requiring a drive over Lions Gate Bridge.

Regards ... Doug


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

well ive been hoarding for years-i try to buy lower priced items-last few years or so, anticipating LGB's demise, i bought a lot of things i might like, closeout priced, and some larger used lgb track when i heard about brass prices chaning-, etc-timing is everything 

-really as much as i will need short for a reasonable, simple medium sized (150-250f ) rr-want to be able to enjoy, maintain and not dominate the garden 

for me the hobby has different aspects: the hunt (finding bargains or highly sought after things) building and detailing and running, 

for now im working on the garden and planning on creating a larger, raised bed with a berm in the center, and continue building structures and painting figures and laying track- 

yes im cutting back-until prices get better and so does the economy-my son is in college and it IS very expensive


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dougald on 02/23/2009 10:37 AM
Mark

BC Rail is now owned and operated by CN.

It has had a long and colourful history ... first as PGE and then as BC Rail. The line runs through dramatic scenery and had interesting equipment. Although locos may often require painting and detailing, Art Knapp does arrange for some rolling stock to be painted. The RDC passenger service was discontinued several years ago but I have fond memories of my trip by Budd car to Prince George and return. 

On subsequent trips to Vancouver, a drive south toward the border will bring you to Art Knapp's while the old BC Rail line runs north requiring a drive over Lions Gate Bridge.

Regards ... Doug


I have purchased several pieces of rolling stock from Art Knapp, including the set of CP heavyweights and a CP E-8. I check his website from time to time to see what new items he has on hand. His is a great business to work with that I highly recommend.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By stevedenver on 02/24/2009 11:51 AM
for me the hobby has different aspects: the hunt (finding bargains or highly sought after things) building and detailing and running, 



Indeed the hunt for bargains or "highly sought after things" is a large part of the fun of this hobby. I just spent the winter completing my rolling stock wish list. I just picked up what will probably be (close to) my last piece this morning. I might add that with the economy the way it is perceived to be, there are definitely more bargains out there.


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By stevedenver on 02/24/2009 11:51 AM
for me the hobby has different aspects: the hunt (finding bargains or highly sought after things) building and detailing and running, 


Indeed the hunt for bargains or "highly sought after things" is a large part of the fun of this hobby. I just spent the winter completing my rolling stock wish list. I just picked up what will probably be (close to) my last piece this morning. I might add that with the economy the way it is perceived to be, there are definitely more bargains out there.

well as i see it
-ebay prices are stupid
-and the GreatTrainExpp i just went to in denver
-youd think used lgb was made of gold-

and 

i dont know of any retailers that are making bargains

but -ther ARE many more items around

and its NEVER your last piece- i learn this every month or so


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Ok I have to compleely revise my plan. I just lost my job this morning so I won't be buying anything unless I can find new employment, not likely.


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## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Sorry to hear the news Doug. My wife and after 20 years of working for the same Co was let go. 

Despite the times, I'm still focusing on setting up my outdoor layout. A great distraction I say. 

Best Wishes


gg


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Doug:

Hey, Dude, not so fast down in the dumps! My son got canned in November--by late December he had a better job that paid almost as much. My daughter hasn't been in the workforce since her business closed 14 years ago. She started looking a week ago and has her first interview this week. And this is St.L., the pit of industrial opportunity.

Jobs are out there, good ones, mediocre ones, crappy ones--but out there they are, so try to cheer up. I understand what it feels like: I lost mine the next day after my boss assured me our department wouldn't take a hit when McDonnell Aircraft went belly-up, but the Lord was good to me and I got on disability, so while the adjustment was severe, it was doable and I'm a pretty contented ol' codger.

Hang in there and keep swinging. 

Les


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Well since I last posted I'm thinking of open my own business. I've been a model maker all my life and a product designer/model maker for the last 10 years. Plus a stringed instrument builder and recently a smoking pipe maker. So between them all I think I can make a living and not leave the house.
The hard part is building up the steam to get going when you are down. I have to work until next Wednesday and then I'll get going.


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## mancosbob (Jan 5, 2009)

You did not give me any choice that was really right for me, so I picked the no purchases, based on the short term. I have so many open projects that unless some super hot deal comes my way, I have plenty to keep me busy for a while. If Accucraft ever brings out any more geese I have to take at least one more (probably No.4), but might get a second No.7 with the passenger trailer too; or just make a new body for the existing 7 trailer.


I was planning on starting a layout in the backyard this year, but family comes first and the bills are..well, you know. Daughter starts college in the fall...and on it goes.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

My wish is to have a large and entertaining railroad, my reality is a lot less... 

Converting to batteries and r/c this year, wants was a tad stronger than responsible until a $2300 truck repair bill, sound will have to wait. 

So even tho' a promise to my grand nephew will be honored, the bells and whistles (so to speak) will have to wait.....Hmm do you s'pose that expression was coined with us in mind? 
John


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## Al McEvoy (Jan 3, 2008)

I answered the poll with the first selection: "Nothing...." but that's really not 100% accurate. The poll needed a 2nd choice up front: "No change in plans as I have not yet been affected." Of course my hobby purchases *can* be affected by the economy. It's just that so far, my wife and I still have our jobs and they do not appear to be in any near term danger (fortunately). I just made the largest purchase I have ever made - one of those brass Rich Yoder EBT Mikados (it is a very fine locomotive!) - and have several Aristo-craft upcoming releases on pre-order with my dealer (PCC, Consolidation, SW-1). Sure, a sudden turn of events could cause me to change my plans but until then.... I will be starting to erect my basement layout in the spring after the walls and celling have been finished.


Sincere best wishes for rapid re-employment to those experiencing job loss in the recent months. 
Al


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Think of it this way, each purchase any one of us makes within our hobby is our own form of economic stimulus. I have spent more money this winter than ever upgrading my fleet and adding tracks. I want our manufacturers and their dealers to be around indefinitely so this is the time to buy even if the deal s are not quite what one may always wish. On the other hand, with the way the economy is now trending, it may truly be a matter of "buy NOW or live to regret it later." "Later" may not be all that far off. For most of us this hobby is a recreational endeavor that will be with us the rest of our lives. If nothing else, it certainly gives us a break from an otherwise nasty world out there. Want that locomotive? BUY it while you still can. NOW is the time because at least TODAY you still know you can get one.


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Well I may be afraid to spend but I've done some horse trading so far I traded all my on30 stuff for a LGB 2-6-0 Mogul, Aristo Lil Critter and a Bachmann big hauler. And for a New york central Lionel. 2 cars ton of couplers and a Bachmann Spectrum 0-6-0 tank engine. Plus for a little bit of nothing I got and Aristo Mallet. It need a new drive rear drive unit but for the price I 'll only have 2 in it. Now I have to clear the Hon3 stuff and it's all brass so I can't spend but I can trade and sell for other things.
Plus I just took a contract to build a concert quality violin for 6 grand. So take my job but you can never get my spirit for long. Today my accountant asked me fro a price on a 5 string banjo. It all may be a blessing in disguise.


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## sschaer (Jan 2, 2008)

this year i laid 250ft of track so far....probably 150' more coming in the next few months. 



btw, i'm talking n-scale here......


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## chuckger (Jan 2, 2008)

So far this year I'v purchased 8 AMS cars and will shortly start building my RR. Also a buddy and myself are working on building models of Coke moguls, have running chassies, working on the loco boiler and other parts. I will convert to battery/rc when I have some track down to run on starting with my K 27, maybe by late spring.

Chuck


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## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

I havent bought anything new, hobby-related, in about four years..except for an On30 Forney.. 
I havent bought anthing new in Large Scale in 4 years.. 

basically the economy has put everything "on hold" for me..in suspended animation. 

my wife was laid off 3 years ago, and still has not found a full-time job.. 
she has done some temp jobs, but nothing meaningfull.. 
right now she is out of work, and is finding nothing..she has applied to literally hundreds of jobs.. 
out of those hundreds of applications, she has had about five interviews in three years, but didnt get the jobs.. 

yes, technically "jobs are out there"..but 500 people are applying to each one.. 
even though the jobs exist, your chances of actually getting one are very low.. 

she was a research technician at EK..there are no new research jobs in Rochester.. 
her "fallback" position is secretarial work, which she did years back..she isnt thrilled about it, but its all she has..no jobs there either.. 

I am also a research technican at EK..and im lucky enough to be still employed..for now.. 
I love my job! and I would love to stay at it for many many years..
im doing everything I can to stay valuable to the company..but that might not be enough..

if I lose my job too, we are both out of work with zero job prospects.. 
my fallback position would be starbucks at $8 an hour...they arent hiring either..closing stored and laying off employees.. 

While Deb has been job searching for the past 3 years, we have also been job searching for me.. 
havent found anything new for me.. 
thats how I know there are no jobs out there..ive been actively looking for years! 

we are pretty thrifty..we have zero credit card debt..our only debt is the mortgage..
we bought a house we could comfortably afford..
we havent gone on a real vacation since our honeymoon..
we have some savings socked away..not enough for new college degrees for both of us,
but enought to get by on for awhile..
but still...even an "affordable" house isnt so affordable if _no one_ has a job..

I would like to do some training for a new career..maybe take some classes at the community college this fall.. 
I just need to figure out what specifically..im thinking maybe CAD..although I read job prospects arent great there.. 
maybe computer/webpage type things...I need to decide on *something* quick, so I can start taking some new training 
while I still have a job.. 

so..the railroad..its all planned! ready to roll.. 
but its definately "on hold" and will likely remain on hold for a year or two more.. 
if I lose my job this year..the trains will probably get boxed up for 5-10 years.. 
while we sell the house, go back to an apartment, take some classes while working at the food court at the mall (if we are that lucky) 
and start life over from scratch.. 
(this is one of the times Im very glad we never had children..) 

im usually a very optimistic person..but no so much lately.. 

but still..perhaps NONE of those things will actually happen..
its possible Deb will find a new job, its possible I _wont_ lose my job!
its possible we wont have to sell the house, and its possible I can begin my railroad next spring..

_trying_ to stay optimistic! 
its difficult..but im working on it..


Scot


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

I cant say it has hurt me, then yet I run a low budget RR anyway. I did just get another 50+ft of track for my westward expansion but thats probably going to be it. I dont want a hudge RR. My 100+ft of track is plenty. That helps keep the cost down. I dont have a lot of rolling stock just enough to keep me happy. My big john was probably the most money but I plan on having that for a long time. Thats used as my big puller for the logg cars. My mack is used for the ore cores while the porter pulls the HLW mini flats. My main focus is going to be the details on the layout. All my structures will be made from scratch (tree branches etc....) You dont need a lot to have a nice RR even when times are bad. A small loop of 40 or so ft of track with a HLW mack and a few mini series rolling stock. Thats all you need to have fun. Then build all your structures from local timber or scrap wood found. You would be suprised what you can pick up by just hitting areas where a new house is being built etc.... 

Another way I plan on savingmoney is im going to build a spur that is going to have wooden rails. I have a few battery cars my daughter no longer uses. That will be made into the engine for the wood rails. Its something that is cheap to do but yet is fun and keeps me busy in the hobby.


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## NavyTech (Aug 2, 2008)

It has hurt me because I am starting in the hobby and my original plan was to have 150ft of track. With the price jump I could on afford 70ft. It slowed me down and I will have to increase my layout much slower than anticipated. I also must scratch build all my structures from scrap material to push the cost down therefore will take more time. I guess it only really effects how fast I can get what I want up and running.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

The only reason I have cut back is that the manufactures have done so also. Nothing new out there to invest in so I guess in the long run I save money. Can do more detail work to the RR with out spending big buck. Manufactures loss my gain as we say. Later RJD


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 04/06/2009 4:30 PM
The only reason I have cut back is that the manufactures have done so also. Nothing new out there to invest in so I guess in the long run I save money. Can do more detail work to the RR with out spending big buck. Manufactures loss my gain as we say. Later RJD

I predicted this would happen in a previous post. Not only would the manufacturers be cutting back, but I would expect that many items already out there would become scarce. As I said, buy now or regret it later. There WILL be shortages.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

None of the boxes quite fit my situation. 

First, I have another project, not train related at all, which has occupied my spare time since last summer. That may be winding down at last, though. 

Second, my teenage daughter moved in with me over the Holidaze. I had a bedroom for her, but to make room for her stuff, most of what I had in there had to be moved out and into the train room, turning that place from 'messy' to just one step above 'landfill'. 

Third, (ties into point two) I came to the realization last summer that I am going to have to do yet another full rebuild of the layout, and the above mess does not help matters much. Doing the work required is going to be daunting. Contrary to my usual practice of working on the layout in the winter, I might do so in the summer just because I'll be able to stash some stuff outdoors during the reconstruction. 

Fourth, the economy did slug me but good: the one delivery job has been scaled back to nothing but 'on call' and the hole in the wall pizza joint which provided the bulk of my train money is now...just a hole in the wall. Went out of biz with the holidaze. I did get another job, but it does not pay all that much and much of what I have made has gone towards things I would have seen too months ago, had I the cash then.  As it is, the house has been all the way paid off for a few years now and I've no significant debt, so while I am not making much money, I don't really need much either. 

As to the point of the poll.. except for some holidaze figures from Home Depot, I have not bought anything for the layout in almost a year. 

I believe (fingers crossed) that I have all the track I need and then some for the rebuild, so I'm probably not going to go for any of that. (depending on just what I do, I might try to pick up some more slot car track, though, but that decision is months off at the earliest). 

I would like to pick up a few building kits...but until I finally come up with a stable layout configuration, I won't know what I'll have room for. (I'd like to build one or two kits unmodified just to get a feel for them.) I've contemplated picking up a pile of model doors, windows, ect and doing some scratch building using them, but again, I need to know what will fit first. 

As to locomotives, rolling stock, and the like...maybe one more locomotive, probably a smaller one. Not a priority, though. I have boxcars, flatcars, gondolas, combines, and bobber cabooses (and one passenger car) and would like to add a tank car or two, and maybe a few more cars, but again, not a priority. 

So...except for screws and the odd bit of lumber, probably no significant model railroad purchases for the next few months...and maybe a few months past that, once the seasonal economy thing around here kicks in. Along about late September or early October...maybe some minor purchaases...maybe a couple building kits, maybe that tank car or something. But the total tab there is likely to be in the $100 and under range....


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## rgolding (Jan 2, 2008)

Taking time to be a little more creative and I certainly appreciate what I have. Life is still very good and I keep wondering why.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

A little late, but .... 
An unexpected bonus this Christmas made plans real. After third went to truck repairs and general servicing I bought some basics; A new train! The Aristo C-16 w/ caboose, 7 assorted Delton cars. Two battery/R/c/sound systems and track about 80' and 3 turnouts; 2 wide r and a #6 wye, all stainless steel. 

Switching to bat R/C finally allows a reversing loop so laying on the ground is the next outdoor project. The first part of the layout is a self contained tri-oval with 2 interior spur tracks, one of which splits near the end for two industries. The new loop leaves the drive way area of the oval and heads out into the yard, loops around some creosote bushes and dodges a barrel cactus for the return. Branching off the loop is a siding that will have an all weather engine holding shed so I won't have to carry them in and out past a cat that wants out, but can't handle being outside! I think he's got ADHD or what ever that is... 

The money was here, I spent it on basics that will allow much more to be done as time arranges itself. The rest I will build. I have a ton of cedar and have previously cast a couple of buildings... Half of the new loop will be on a trestle... I construct opposit of the 1:1 boys, first a crude fill, lined with rocks and filled with on site gravel. Then as the trestle comes to life the fill will be removed. Usually I'll use a spline for the stringers, but I saw a woodcut of a loco on a trestle that is very unique, so I will be going prototype on this one, I hope the javalina's (300# wild peccaries, hence the ss track) learn to step over it! Other than spurs which can be added later, I now have enough track and rolling stock. I'm semi-retired so time is what I have the most of... 

Be well, 
John


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Totalwrecker on 04/13/2009 10:27 AM
A little late, but .... 
An unexpected bonus this Christmas made plans real. After third went to truck repairs and general servicing I bought some basics; A new train! The Aristo C-16 w/ caboose, 7 assorted Delton cars. Two battery/R/c/sound systems and track about 80' and 3 turnouts; 2 wide r and a #6 wye, all stainless steel. 

Switching to bat R/C finally allows a reversing loop so laying on the ground is the next outdoor project. The first part of the layout is a self contained tri-oval with 2 interior spur tracks, one of which splits near the end for two industries. The new loop leaves the drive way area of the oval and heads out into the yard, loops around some creosote bushes and dodges a barrel cactus for the return. Branching off the loop is a siding that will have an all weather engine holding shed so I won't have to carry them in and out past a cat that wants out, but can't handle being outside! I think he's got ADHD or what ever that is... 

The money was here, I spent it on basics that will allow much more to be done as time arranges itself. The rest I will build. I have a ton of cedar and have previously cast a couple of buildings... Half of the new loop will be on a trestle... I construct opposit of the 1:1 boys, first a crude fill, lined with rocks and filled with on site gravel. Then as the trestle comes to life the fill will be removed. Usually I'll use a spline for the stringers, but I saw a woodcut of a loco on a trestle that is very unique, so I will be going prototype on this one, I hope the javalina's (300# wild peccaries, hence the ss track) learn to step over it! Other than spurs which can be added later, I now have enough track and rolling stock. I'm semi-retired so time is what I have the most of... 

Be well, 
John

Congrats on the initial LS acquisitions. Sounds like quite a plan. Be sure to provide us with plenty of pictures and narrative as your project proceeds.


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Well I'm out of work but decided to use the train money set aside for the new rail road anyway. I got 12 new #6 switches an MTH Hudson, Challenger, VO-1000 switcher and a DCS system to run them. Now I have to quit spending but at least I did my part to stimulate the economy. Now I have to get the layout done before some puts the screws to me and gives me a job.


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## KYYADA (Mar 24, 2008)

Great news today at work! I don't get laid off and I get five extra days off per quarter, unfortuanatly, the boss said, "all U.S. salaried employs are getting a 7.5% reduction in pay". And I started a new project this week, it will just take a little longer to purchase the stuff. I have been wasting money like a drunken sailor and out and out stealing from the stock holders and from the company treasury hoping that if I go in the hole enough I may qualify for stimulus money, 33.9 billion would give me some cushioning. Could you imagine the national crisis that would be created without the tooth picks and whittlin' sticks my logging railroad supplies... 

Johnny


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By KYYADA on 05/06/2009 4:18 PM
Great news today at work! I don't get laid off and I get five extra days off per quarter, unfortuanatly, the boss said, "all U.S. salaried employs are getting a 7.5% reduction in pay". And I started a new project this week, it will just take a little longer to purchase the stuff. I have been wasting money like a drunken sailor and out and out stealing from the stock holders and from the company treasury hoping that if I go in the hole enough I may qualify for stimulus money, 33.9 billion would give me some cushioning. Could you imagine the national crisis that would be created without the tooth picks and whittlin' sticks my logging railroad supplies... 

Johnny

It's always good to see when one of our MLS members, threatened by loss of a job, has somehow managed to hold on. Besides, we _need_ those toothpicks ! Congratulations.


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## Robbie Hanson (Jan 4, 2008)

I'm actually doing fairly well--I'm enrolled at the best local college for virtually nothing(yay for scholarships), so I'm going to be purchasing a few AMS bumblebee coaches and probably some new track. Might build some stuff, buy something that catches my eye, but no idea on that at the moment.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

No change since last post.....yet, 







  but gas in up 10 cents in 2 days, and now talk of a VAT for the US...







 looks like this recession may just be getting started.  Spending in 2010 may be the same as in 08 and 09


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Well I thought at the beginning of April I would get through this down turn with 6 months of severance and be working a new job with no problem but even with the new job it's way less than half of my earnings on the old job. So with great regret I'm going to sell my entire collection. It's take years to amass 82 engines and 455 cars and loads of track and accessories. It bums me out to no end but I have to take care of keeping my house and food on the table. 

Doug


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Doug, 

That sucks, I'm sorry to hear it. 

You gotta do what you gotta do, but maybe keep an engine and a couple of cars? Never know what tomorrow might bring. 

Les


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## Nohandles (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks Les and you are right you do have to do what you have to do. If I kept one engine- which one? it would be like having a potato chip- hum? just one? We are actually thinking seriously about getting rid of it all and living in a motor home. 
Doug


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, it's been 10 months since I was laid off. 20 resumes sent out in Aug got me one phone interview and one face to face interview. I was qualified for every one of the jobs. From 10 hr stock clerk to managment positions, I've applied for them all. The face to face interview with a Fortune 500 company didn't look good from the time I showed up. While their for over 2 hours, I never seen anyone over their early 40s. All we hear is how it's against the law to discriminate against older people, race or gender, yet every application you fill out, they want to know what year you graduated, what race you are and what gender. I used to hire employees and this info is listed right on the application. 10 plus years of Customer service and sales experiance isn't enough any more. They want college degrees for 9-10 dollar an hour jobs. The wife has faired no better. She has a two year degree in Computer Science and just got her National Medical Billing Certification which was supposed to be good for 1 yrs experience, so the school said. She's had a half dozen interviews since June and everytime she's passed over because she doesn't have experience in a medical office. 
I'm no Obama supporter, but I have to at least thank him for providing relief with the Cobra health insurance costs ($298.00 a month in leu of $842.00 a month and extending our un-employment. 
I always jokes about becoming a greeter at Wal-Mart, but it's looking more and more a posibility. At least the position is comprised of old people and not teenagers. 
Randy


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Well, it's been 10 months since I was laid off. 20 resumes sent out in Aug got me one phone interview and one face to face interview. I was qualified for every one of the jobs 
Ouch! 

I always jokes about becoming a greeter at Wal-Mart, but it's looking more and more a posibility. At least the position is comprised of old people and not teenagers. 


Might want to look into pizza delivery. A lot of the time, they do prefer older drivers - or at least having an older face around the store. Get the right deal: min wage + delivery fee + tips and the pay works out to $10 - $15 an hour depending on the shift (day shift very slow) and day (I've made $100+ in greenbacks on a good Friday night, norm is about $50).


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## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Randy, 

It's very tough to find any kind of job. My daughter, 35, is working 29 hrs at K-Mart as a checkout girl + stockroom. She has a full 4 yr degree with a double major, history and technical theater. 

My son, 27, has been out for 4 months. He's a machinist/machine operator. It looks like he might finally get on at a small jobshop. Wages will be half what he was earning. If he gets hired. I hope he can so he can learn to be a 'real' machinist. 

I know two young guys with wives and babies who can't find any kind of work. While they say the unemployment rate is ~10% as of last Friday, it is actually much higher, because people who use up their benefits aren't counted any more as 'actively looking for a job'. Go figure. 

People over 40 have it rougher. Experience doesn't matter because the people who do the hiring have a four year degree and have never worked in their lives. (I don't include summer jobs, living at home until after college as 'work'. Got in a helluva problem with my boss many years ago when I laid that off on him.) 

And the 'outsourcing' is so complete that all the 'shovel-ready' jobs are taken up by non-taxpaying illegal aliens using shovels made in China. 

My kids found their jobs by pounding the pavement rather than doing resumes. I don't know if that makes any difference or not. 

I hope you and your wife find something decent. 

Les


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

I know it is tough to find a job, especially in this economic climate. I deal with the unemployed for a living and it can be heart wrenching. I deal with those who lose their jobs for all kinds of reasons. Some are unbelieveable. However, there are good jobs out there. I have had employers tell me that they can't find people to work for $17.00 an hour to start. I have had others tell me they lose people even though, the employer is providing company vehicles, tools, fuel cards, and other benefits. It's tough out there, but there are jobs to be had despite the competition. There are better days ahead for all of us. Hang in there.


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## Jerry McColgan (Feb 8, 2008)

I was not going to reply to this poll because I feel sad for those who are going through hard personal times (and that includes members of my own family) but a poll is not worth much unless everyone or at least an average of everyone participates. 

In my case two things have happened this year. 

First I have spent more on this hobby this year than I have spent for the past several years (since before the LGB bankruptcy). 

Second I am in debt this year while I was out of debt a year ago. As a matter of fact I still owe for everything I have purchased this year. It will probably take me most or all of next year to pay of what I bought this year. 

Why? Because I am retired, I am 65 years old and my health is declining bit by bit as I get older (as would be expected) so I want to enjoy as much of this hobby as I can while I can still do it. 

The simple fact is that unless (as a whole) we spend money to support our hobby the distributors and manufacturers will go away one by one until there is no one left to buy from when the economy improves. 

Of course I am not suggesting that anyone should spend more than they can afford to buy and for just about everything I have bought I will be selling other things to pay for them which means cheap bargains for someone on the older stuff I am and will be selling. 

This is not new to me. A large amount of my trains and track was bought 2nd hand or on closeouts so for those who would like to add something inexpensively to their layouts perhaps the solution may be some inexpensive bargains from others who are replacing things on their layouts or perhaps from a not too distant estate sale. 

For those who are between jobs or underemployed we can hope that the economy will improve sooner rather than later. 

Additionally this is a friendly and helpful hobby that has shown a willingness to share and to help others. There are many layouts such as mine where folks who do not have their own layout or equipment are welcome to share those of others. There has also been a lot of things quietly given to those in need. 

Jerry


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