# Thomas and Annie/Clarabel have different couplers!



## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

Does anyone here know what's the deal with Bachmann's Thomas loco having different couplers than his 2 passenger carriages, Annie and Clarabel. They are quite obviously meant to run together, and they do work together just fine.. But the couplers are a bit different. Just curious. As a point of interest, it's similar to the OO scale NEM couplers which come in 3 various widths. (See OO Hornby versus OO Bachmann steam locos for example.)
Ken S.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ken:


Did you buy them separately? As they come in the original (new) set they are all at the same height and are all Hook and Loop. This height is too high for the standard truck mounted H&L couplers on LGB USA, etc. In the box are extenders which can be used to drop the H&Ls down to mate with the other cars. Is Thomas to high or too low compared to the girls? Check to see if the extender is on one or the other.

Chuck


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I know that Bachman started to use a new coupler on the Little Big Haulers that were to be more kid friendly. The newer Thomas cars may have them.


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

I bought the pieces individually from eBay. The couplers are all hook and loop, at the same height, just slightly different shapes and widths. (Just like the 3 widths of OO NEMS.) My further research has shown me that there is the "hook and loop" and the "universal hook and loop". Perhaps Mike Reindeer is right that Bachmann is changing their H&Ls and my Thomas train is caught in the change. 
Ken S.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

If I recall didnt the coaches had early issues with derailing on R1s? The solution was to provide wider loops on the couplers to give them a larger arc of coupler swing? This was also why the newest Emily coaches have the larger loop couplers. The Annie and Emily coaches are both from the same molds.


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

I bought a three-piece set - Thomas, Clarabel, Annie. They didn't derail a lot, they just didn't stay coupled. By the end of last summer I had all three tied together with twist ties, which made it difficult to carry out from the garage when the granddaughter came over. 

Since I'm in the process of switching my regular rolling stock to Kadees, I'm experimenting with leftover A/C and USAT couplers. Unfortunately, there's half a foot of snow on the track so I don't know if my first attempt will be any good. 

JackM


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

To JackM, are you mounting your Kadees low on the trucks/bogies at the same level as the hook and loop, or, are you body mounting them? And, if you are body mounting them, what is the sharpest diameter curve that a body-mounted Kadee will work? I've got 8' diameter curves as my ruling curve, and my eyeball test leads me to think that it's just too sharp. Here's a thought: there are some HO passenger cars (by Walthers, I think) that have a special coupler box that will pivot on very sharp curves, allowing operation on the sharp curves. Is there any such product available for G? The hook and loop truck-mounted ones do this OK, but just don't look all that good. I'll keep Thomas with the H&L ones, but I also have some G29 scale USAT that would look a lot better with body-mounted knuckles. Thanks. Ken S.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

At our Christmas show this year, I had to repair the H&Ls on Thomas and one of the girls. The little pin that holds the hook in has started to fall out and the black plastic spring has fallen out. I think that next time I take them out I will try to replace the Bachmann H&Ls with LGB H&Ls.


I could not run my Thomas set on R1 curves. Most other H&L couplers are truck mounted and the trucks pivot with the track. The H&L on the Bachmann Thomas and friends cars and engines are body mounted. They do not pivot, That is the problem.

Chuck


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Hi, they changed between production runs. The new ones are taller and thicker, not nearly as nice. As to R1 curves, I intially had some issues, two solution, On Lil Big haulers (different coupler entirely but the statgy would work) remove one hook from each end of the car so only one hook is engaged. Worke grest on any track. They wouldn't go through a 4' switch until this mod. On the Thomas cars, try the hook on one side and wiggle, if it feels"tight", try changing the side. In my rake of 7 customized cars, I have found this method 100% effective, BTW, I will be selling 5 Lil Hauler coaches and a baggage car in red shortly as I have been informed I have "too much train stuff". PM if interested. Very low usage.


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## avlisk (Apr 27, 2012)

To chuck n, what are the R1 curves that you use? I've found each manufacturer has different meanings for their R-values. No two are alike. I understand radius and diameter when given in feet and inches, and can even figure out what that is in metric, thanks to the internet. But R-values I don't know. Thanks. Ken S.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB's R1. As far a I am concerned, for any other manufacturer I will use feet for diameter/radius. LGBs R1 is supposed to be 4' diameter, I do not know if that is outside rail to outside rail, inside rail to inside rail, or a mid point between the rails. Chuck


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## cocobear1313 (Apr 27, 2012)

Aristo is measured on center. 
Dave


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Ken:


I just checked my most recent LGB catalog, from a couple of years before they went out of business. Their R1 is 600mm radius and they say that it is center to center. I also just checked with Accucraft, USAtrains, AristoCraft, Bachmann, Train-Li, and Piko. The only ones using the "R" designation, were Train-Li and Piko. Train-Li did not show an R1. All they showed was R3 and R4. They stated that their R number is the radius in feet. They may have used R1 in the past, I seem to remember a discussion about their "R"s when they first came out. Under their new description it would be R2 (for 2 foot radius), if they had it. The Piko site says that their R1 is 600mm radius, identical to LGB. The other manufacturers, as far as I can tell, only use diameter in feet.

I could not find any mention of the diameter of their curves on the Bachmann site. If it is there, it wasn't obvious. We have all assumed that it is about 4' in diameter.

There are other track manufacturers out there, but I don't think that they make sectional track. 

I hope this helps you.

Chuck

edit-- 600mm = 1.97 feet. So a circle of LGB R1 is slightly less than 4' in diameter (center to center).


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I have been putting Kadee 830's on Thomas rolling stock. Easy to do and works well on tight curves.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Since LGB is metric and the measurement is 1200mm center to center, this is approx. 47 1/4 inches (47.2441), close to 4 feet and that is why everyone equates metric to feet with our trains. 

On the other hand, I measured the USA trains switch and it was 36 inches, (900mm would have been around 35.4331 inches).


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## JackM (Jul 29, 2008)

In answer to Ken S. questions, all the Thomas units have only two axles, so body mount seems to be the only possibility. My layout has minimum 16 foot diameter curves, although I admit to having fudged to about 14 footers in one or two places. 

I'll have to get some Kadee 830's as Mike suggested. Unfortunately, I don't have any track to test things on this time of year (half a foot of snow on it all right now). First, I'll see if using my old A/C couplers will work. 

I traded emails and photos with Sam at Kadee, and he didn't see any of their products being useable on the Thomas. (I suspect he was concerned with finding a solution that would show Kadees in their full glory.) Worse comes to worse, I could fashion some drawbers to hold the three units together. It's not like my granddaughter cares about "prototypical" realism. She's only 3. 

Thanks for the suggestions. 

Jack M 

To differentiate me from her other grandfather, she calls me "Grampa-choo", as in choo choo.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack: All of LGBs 2-axle cars have trucks that rotate under the body. This permits the H&Ls stay centered even on R1 curves. The coupler tongue is part of the truck. Had Bachmann used this setup there would not be any of the problems that we are now having. We are left with body mounts if we want to change the couplers. Chuck


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