# Battery-Powered Gondola's, Box-Car's, Hopper's etc...



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Hello Everyone...

Question? We are going to start offering a new line of battery-powered trailing cars. We will start with about 10 different design models which will include, your choice of gondola, box-car, or hopper...battery or batteries ranging from two 12Volts Nimh packs to one 22.2V Lithium-Ion packs, single or dual station charger, our CR-1 or New CR-2 Smart Charger's...your choice of transmitter/receiver "ie: Aristocraft Revolution, OSI or RCS." Sound system, speaker & fan. These will be available in Jaunary of 2010 from our vendors (St. Aubin's east & west, RLD Hobbies, RCS east & west, Winona GR in Canada, any EMW...Jonathan and I still need to discuss this) but I would really like your input...if you could design your own battery-powered trailing car, what kind of features or design options you would like available in your car? Also, is this a good thing...would this make it easiler and/or faster for the non-technical enthusiast to get their train up and running. These first designs would be a simple plug-in-play with featured products (Aristrocraft, QSI, & RCS) and later we would let you design your own car through our website. 

Thank you for your time and consideration, I really appreciate your input!

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

My first thought is ... That's a lot of variables. Put all your options in a spreadsheet and you will likely have hundreds of combinations. But, if you do these as custom runs, you'll probably get some takers.


My input ... Obviously you aren't offering my choice of control system







, I don't want to haul around a battery charger in my train, and I prefer my sound system in the locomotive, not in a trailing car (although I admit that would simplifiy things). My trailing cars have a battery, a Battery Conversion Module, one of my controls, and a connector to the loco. Most, if not all wiring connections are screw terminals (depends on functions). Pretty simple.

I would say building (wiring) the trailing car is simple compared to tearing into a loco full of undocumented wiring. You still have to figure out what is going on there to get to the motor and lights. Plug 'n play sockets may help this in the future, but right now, they are in the minority. 


I'll be interested in the response. I'd say its a good idea worth pursuing!


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

example 1 




























from here on it speaks for its-self. double door box cars work great. 

And don't let folks laugh at your odd car behind the engine. I have seen in 1:1 every odd thing out there in a unit train with odd car behind the engine.


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I call the "odd" car behind the engine a "tender" hehe

Not sure I'd bother to buy one all pre-made up. Just the parts and make it the way I want it. Shoot, even my "plug & play" loco isn't quite as it once was, and I'm not talking the dive off the track last October (oh, forget the stupid smiley. Edited it for times and mls still shows the red x)


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Mr Polk has offered RTR battery R/C trail cars in the past. 
I don't know how well they sold but I do acknowledge that using a trail car is the easiest way to get into battery R/C with AristoCraft locos that have the pigtails already fitted.
Rewiring a loco without pigtails varies from easy to not so easy. Especially for a novice.
My bet is that most potential customers will want to use their own trail car and opt for the lowest cost batteries and R/C system they can get. Such as the Trackside TE out of the case.

Some may want sound, most will not.
Good luck in the venture. Especially if it helps sell RCS.

Here is how I have done trail car installs in the past:

EASY PEASY Trail car[/b] and LGB Baggage Car with batteries and R/C.[/b]


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks Del, 

Those were the first three control systems I thought of off the top of my head, and we could design mutil-types of systems for the end user. If I could remember how to upload a photo I would show you one of our first designs...The Aristo Train Engineer, two 12V 3800mah Nimh battery-packs with our Dual Smart Charger and a double pull, double throw switch. This is a 24V system and can pull 20 - 30 cars...our Smart Chargers are designed to automatically shut-off after the batteries are charged and we charge our battery-cars overnight. This was a system I ran at Marty's this past year in a Gondola...it got a lot of looks! But, your correct...if there was a simple way to control the lights to dim while stationary that's a plus, "wiring." We can also offer a four way plug-in play socket to cover the sound and lights issue in the modern engines coming out these days. As Marty has shown us, conversions can be very simple and used in multiple applications. 

Thanks for the suggestions and please keep giving us your opinions!!! 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks Tony, 

Nice designs! We would offer different cars for different locations. (ie: Canada...CN, Grand Trunk, Terra Northland) We will offer some basic design to start then get into the meat'n bones after. Our top model will include our New CR-2 Smart Charger that will show you on a digital display the volts and amps our charging and discharging at while in operations. 

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

No problem Rick. 

Just be prepared for the negative cost comparisons by those wishing to save money.


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

That's right, thanks Tony. Here are some of our first designs.









This is the Train Engineer, CR-1 Smart Charger and 18V @ 4500mah Nimh Battery-Pack. This is also our display model and the CR-1 can lay down or stand up, as soon in photo.









This is the Train engineer, Dual Smart Charger and two 12V @ 3800mah Nimh Battery-Packs, with a double pole, double throw switch. This system is a 24V system and can pull between 20 - 30 cars easy.

These are our basic systems and can be up graded anyway you'd like.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Rick Isard
Cordless Renovations


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick, 

The first battery r/c train I had was a Big Hauler set from Toys R Us, and I've never looked back. The first one I built was a boxcar with a battery and a pot for speed control, a switch for on/off, and a plug for the charger. My thoughts: 

If you can make it easy to connect your car to the locomotive, then some folk will find it an easy way to get into battery r/c. 

Why put the charger on board? Most folk understand charging with a separate charger and won't want to buy duplicates. 

There's another application. I made the boxcar for a gentleman in CO with a garden railroad that was track powered. He wanted to be able to run something at a moments notice (e.g. when company insisted on seeing the trains.) The boxcar plugged into the back of the LGB loco he had, using standard LGB connectors. 

Finally, (and maybe Tony can comment on this,) I noticed you're offering fairly high voltage battery systems. Are you sure the r/c throttle will actually output the full 100% of what is fed in to it? From my observations, the throttle may be set to output 0-18V as long as you feed it 12-24V. Giving it more than 18V may not get you any more power!


----------



## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Tony's right, the cost will be the "true" test of how marketable you will be with your products, it already sounds expensive to me where your letting them pick their designs!! I am not a electronics techno genius like most on here, but I have successfully built my own battery boxcars with TE and also just battery boxcar that just lend power to the engine that is already equipped with QSI/G-wire. You can do this for around under $100 and that is a conservative number probably way less as alot of people have drill batteries around or you can get 2 nicad or nimh batteries from some of the top selllers for 2 for $29 and up and everyone has a boxcar or gondola or something to put em in!! So your pricing in today's economy will be a big factor for you. I will admit when I got into this proposition 2+ years ago I found limited help until I found a couple of friends in the hobby who put up with my ignorance of electronics and did get me on at least the right track where I could do it on my own. As far as battery, and RC I have never burnt up or blown up or let the smoke out yet!!! Hah LOL I have though burnt up some things trying to learn how to "solder" eventually figured out I had the wrong iron, and solder type, and once beyond that I'm now soldering hee hee much to the amazement of my partners in "crime" so to speak!! LOL Regal


----------



## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't run battery, it doesn't make sense for our layout, but at times I've thought about something like this for visiting other tracks. But I wouldn't buy it, because I don't trust the PNP wiring on any large scale loco. I've rewired a bunch of Aristo loco with plug and play sockets, just to get them to work the way they are supposed to. At this point, I would not trust the battery plug/PNP board to be wired correctly, and I'd end up tearing everything out and wiring it directly myself. So there would not be a big advatage to seelling it like that, at least not for me.

There may be a lot of people who have had flawless experience with Aristo's battery plug, but I'm skeptical. It's a great idea, the PnP board, but the quality control is too shaky.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I don't see how you can say your 24 v car can pull anything, the number of cars depends more on the loco, if it's small and light it may only pull 8 -10 cars. Could lead to angry customers... 
But then again I saw you make false a statement to support your business before... so what's new? (It is possible to recharge from track power anywhere on the layout, not just on a charging track - example) 
Also I wouldn't trust Aristocraft's power plug when I've encountered so much wrong in the tender/loco wiring, ie; track and batt switch. The internal wiring still needs to be checked and some eliminated.... 
I am building a battery car now and it will only carry batteries and the bat's harness, the Rx and sound belong to the loco not a car. This way I won't hear the wrong sounds with a different loco plugged in. Only two wires need to be disguised between the car and loco.... and I'll have a car that can power either of my 2 locos rather than being sound dedicated to one loco, one has air compressors and the other doesn't... that's a big part of the sound. True some sound cards can be reprogrammed, but who wants to do that every time you switch locos? 

Good luck, 
John


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I've been watching this thread. 

I'd say the difficulties in being successful hinge on the unit being inexpensive (since most people wanting a battery car are looking for an inexpensive solution to work on multiple locos), and it being "sort of" plug and play. 

The difficulty in the former is clear, hard to make a profit when there's only 3 components, battery, charger, r/c unit... all of which are very competitive in price and designed to be easy to install in the first place. 

The difficult in the latter is tougher, only Aristo makes an external connector for battery power, and there are lots of "gotchas" that will be out of your control, but you WILL be blamed for non-operation! 

Polyswitches triggering prematurely, wrong wiring in the loco, track/power switch not disconnecting track pickups, and that's just on the Aristo locos, you have to hardwire Bachmann and USAT. 

It may be tough, not trying to be a downer, just explaining some history. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## c nelson (Dec 18, 2008)

I am a battery guy,have been from day one, and I don't understand why one would want an on-board charger? 

I'd like an additional charger to use to charge more than one unit at a time...but would never consider placing one in each loco (don't use trail cars much anymore). 

When one of our locos dies, we plug it in, and let it charge...


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

As an engineer, I appreciate the idea of a totally self-contained system, where there are no external components, just plug it in. 

But as I mentioned earlier, trail cars to share batteries and r/c units usually exist to save money. Dedicating a charger to each trail car might just negate the economic advantage people are looking for. 


Regards, Greg


----------



## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

But then after everything I said and Greg and such! I learned as a "salesman" If ya don't try something you'll never know if it worked or not!!! I just wouldn't get too heavily or deep into the project until you see with minimal investment time/money before I went hog wild. There are a bunch of us "cheapo's" out here myself included huh Greg? what did you say!! hee hee but I DO I DO I DO like to save money and get my "best bang for the buck" and as Jon BonJovi says "ALWAYS" Unless you are a "gazzillionaire" as I refer to we are all like that even though some won't admit it!! Hee Hee LOL ok Greg now you can chime in!! Hee Hee Regal


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

No argument with anything you said Jerry! 

Hmm... what if a custom harness was provided that could power USAT, and one for Bachmann, etc.? The USAT one is pretty easy, open the shell, disconnect both track power pickups and plug the "power cable" into at least one that leads to the motherboard. 

On the Bachmann, it's more work, but typically you can disconnect the track power leads. 

For Bachmanns with sockets (and Aristo if you wanted), you could make a modified "dummy plug" that would have a cable wired to it, where it would disconnect the track pickups entirely.. 

There might be some ideas here... 

Regards, Greg


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 07 Dec 2009 12:01 PM 
SNIP
Hmm... what if a custom harness was provided that could power USAT, and one for Bachmann, etc.? The USAT one is pretty easy, open the shell, disconnect both track power pickups and plug the "power cable" into at least one that leads to the motherboard. 


Regards, Greg 

Hey Greg.

Do you mean something like this: BIK-USA


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Hello everyone... 

I really do appreciate all your input and that's why I asked the question? So, let's see if I can answer your questions as best I can. 

1. Question; "make it easy to connect to your loco?" Yes, we will offer a line of 10 different connector that you can choose from for your paticular loco. 
2. Question; "why put a charger on board? The reason is that we (myself and my father) wanted to design (from your line of two-way radio chargers, analyzers, conditioners, 3M & cordless drill chargers) a battery-powered car that was easy to hook-up operate, disconnect, bring inside and charge overnight...an all in-one-system. In addition, as we all get older it get's harder & harder to bend over, neel down, to fix derailments or even to put cars back on the track. So, if there was an all-in-one system that you could put one the track and plug-in, the easier it get's to operate your train as we get older. (ie: my 75 year old father) We also have two chargers (CR-1 & CR-2) that are able to tell you how much voltage and mah capacity left in your battery-pack while in operation. 
3. Question; "Cost?" Yes, cost is always a factor, once the product features increase the cost goes up, that happens everywhere...but, we will have about six basic models to keep the costs down. 
4. Aristo PNP: I'm not a fan of the size of the wire in the Aristo plug, for me 22 gauge wire is not enough conductivity to give you a quick response time and with the voltage and mah's of our battery-packs, over time the wires could burn through. 
5. Question; "24V car can pull anything?" I do agree that in some locos a 24 volt battery-car may not work, but...this same battery-car pull 26 cars behind my E8 for 2 plus hours at Marty's is past Fall. I did not charge it overnight and ran it again the next day making a video for Marty. ??? 
6. This is for John, "False Statement" I have never made a false statement nor would I ever do so. What I did say was; we have a side-track charging station that works up to 24Volts and should be available at the York Show in 2010. In every application we manufacture we test it, retest it and then give it to some of our clubs members to try it out. There are times we manufacture test models that don't work or that don't work for the price range we want, so we kill it, or it sit around here collecting dust, or we add it to our layout...but it's not worth my time to argue with a MLS member when this product is not in production. 
7. Greg...I agree, but I always like to try new things. We have these two cars working flawlessly for the past two years, and we will be adding more models soon...but I thought if we could help the enthusiasts make the operation of their engines easier, I'm all for it! 

I would like to reiterate that I really appreciate all your ideas, suggestions, and comments. As a battery-guy and small business owner, I'm not all that too familar with every model of engine available, nor do I expect to be...that's why I'm a member of MLS. 

Thank you again, and please keep up the comments... 
Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations


----------



## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Hey Rick, I like the idea, but here is what my future plans are, I was going to have multiple battery cars, but I could exchange batteries from car to car. I will hook up multiple cars with the correct wiring, then just have 2-3 battery packs, depending on what engine or engines I am running, and insert the battery packs to what battery cars I need, end of the day, I take the battery packs out and charge them, with 1 charger.

Hopefully I explained that so you understand.

Tom H


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Hi Tom, 

Good to hear from you again! Mutilple batteries with mutilple cars and one charger, alot of guys do just that. We have done that in the past and it works well, but I don't run my E8's for more than 1 - 2 hours at one time, except for tours. So, I could charge one of our battery-cars and have it work for a couple of days before it would need a recharge it again. That is the concern for most of MLS members on this post, why should I buy multiple cars or chargers to run four or five of my engines. But do most MLS members run multiple battery-cars at the same time on the same track, or would they run one engine for a time then switch over to another engine and run that for an hour or so? If so, you would need one battery-car??? If that's right? My goal is to offer a battery-car with an extremely long run-time, built-in charger and controller at a low price. That's my goal. 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick. 
With respect, I think what most respondents are telling you is they do not need a charger built into every battery car. 
The cost would be lower if they had one battery charger that could charge multiple battery cars. Say three or four cars. 
For more cars they would consider more chargers. 
Cost will be the deciding factor. 
Perhaps it would be a good idea to quote an all included ball park figure RTR out of the box for a typical set up.


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Hey Tony, 

Thanks, sometimes I get side-tracked and off the point...and I would hate for someone to purchase more than what they really need. At times, designing the charging circuit board within the car without the plastic cover would keep the cost down...but we can offer the later as well. What I will do is offer several different models in different price ranges and see what happens, and once I nail down a price range I'll bring it up in another post. 

Thanks for the comments! 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Tom, if you have a couple locos and have 2 packs per trailer, using 1 charger to charge all 4 battery packs means that you will have to change packs 4 times on the charger. Are you going to be up at midnight charging batteries or you just do not run 2 days in a row? 

I can't see how 1 charger can suffice for multiple trains and multiple packs unless you never run 2 days in a row. 

Just trying to understand the practicality... 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Just a couple of cents to add to the discussion.

Since I started battery operations ten years ago, I've always tried to use the K.I.S.S. method by putting the controller and removable, rechargable batteries in a follow car. All charging has been and is done on the bench. I like to run my trains until the batteries are fully discharged then replace them with charged ones. I've used box cars that have a removable roof. Using this method, I was able to keep the expense down as well. 

I would find it very difficult to have to carry another battery car to the train when it quits or even more difficult to have a train quit at the far end of the layout. Then I would need to pull the entire train back to storage. That's not too handy. This would be especially true when we run on Marty's very long layout. It's very easy to grab an extra battery pack with a quick change connector and change it out with the discharged one and continue running.

I certainly understand that folks who like to do "Operations" type running, completely contained locomotives without the need or bother of a follow car is a very nice advantage.


Today, technology has greatly improved Radio Control/DCC with smaller, longer range receivers and battery technology is advancing very rapidly with smaller, lighter weight and higher amperage packs that are much easier to work with.

It's been said many times and could be worth repeating here. It's your own railroad and you can run it the way that suits you best..


----------



## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

built-in charge 
Rick, 

It occurred to me we may be missing something in your explanation. If the charger is onboard, are you planning to plug the AC 110V power cord directly into the car ???


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Main thing I need is something to warn me, "Hey dummy! The battery is running down!" Mr. Mallet always crawls off to somewhere inaccessible to die.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh the joys of the no-warning lithium battery cutoff... 

A beeper on low voltage would be nice... but again, more money.. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I sent Rick an explanation off list, haven't heard back. 
I don't want to start another thread on a negative tone, but I do stand by my statement, not that it really matters. 
I hope he takes it as constructive criticism and not an attack. 
I just think it might be better to seperate the descriptions from the promotions... 
Like the statement above; a noob might think his 0-4-0 can pull 30 cars w/The 'super-duper' 24 v car and instead grinds up his gears. 

A false statement is one that can be made when the speaker thinks it is true. Not a deception, rather a false one... I was careful to chose the right word. 

That's all folks, 


I'm outta here, gotta go change out a well pump. 

John


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Hello everyone, 

Pete, yes...the system is designed with a 1 amp wall adapter so you can take the battery-car off track, put it into AC 110v power outlet and charge it...all of our chargers inside a battery-car will be designed this way and will automatically turn-off when your battery-pack is full. 

Torby, with our CR-1 & CR-2 Smart Chargers both have a warning LED light or display that blinks or turns bright red when your battery-pack is below 10% of battery-life left and needs to be recharged. Both of these chargers will charge Nicd, Nimh, Lithium-Ion or Polymer from 7.2V - 22.2V, and the warning LED/Display works on all chemistries. With our new CR-2, we have added a small circuit board that will indicate the voltages and milliamps of your battery-pack while charging or discharging. 

Hello Stan, and yes your right and especially at Marty's it would be a pain to replace your dead batteries. In your case, and for most MLS members...maybe we could design a very simple gas gauge (LED's or a Digital Display) that you could put inline with your battery-pack that would indicate how much life you have left in it. And, especially with your lithium's we would want to tell you the voltage as well??? 

John, thanks for your comments I have replied to your email. As a manufacturer it is extremely hard to "not" promote your products in a discription! 

Thanks all, I really do appreciate all your comments and suggestions. 
Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations


----------



## russfox (Apr 11, 2008)

Yessss.
A simple Low Battery Indicator would be a great product by itself... so people could add it to locomotives that contain the batteries onboard or to a battery car.


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Hello Stan, and yes your right and especially at Marty's it would be a pain to replace your dead batteries. In your case, and for most MLS members...maybe we could design a very simple gas gauge (LED's or a Digital Display) that you could put inline with your battery-pack that would indicate how much life you have left in it. And, especially with your lithium's we would want to tell you the voltage as well??? Rick, thanks for the response. Just speaking for myself, I have never found the batteries quiting either abruptly or slowing down to be a problem. If there was a "fuel gauge" on the cells, on my layout, I'd have to chase the train, stop it, take the roof off the battery car or coal load off the tender to see how much battery was left. It easier to sit at the computer, post on myLargecale.com a go out and change a pack when the train quits.










When I was running gel cells, I could tell when they were discharged to a point of just about to stop. I can tell the same with the Li-ions. All that to say, I run either of them 'til they stop, then change to new packs.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Stan, when you discharge li-ions that have a built in circuit (like the Aristo ones), they will abruptly turn off when the discharge limit is sensed by the circuit. 

I thought you had some li-ions... maybe you don't... that kind of protection circuitry is usually not found in nicad, nimh or gel cell packs. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 08 Dec 2009 02:18 PM 
Stan, when you discharge li-ions that have a built in circuit (like the Aristo ones), they will abruptly turn off when the discharge limit is sensed by the circuit. 

I thought you had some li-ions... maybe you don't... that kind of protection circuitry is usually not found in nicad, nimh or gel cell packs. 

Regards, Greg Hi Greg........ I'm using Li-ion's exlusively now and they are all PCB protected and will shut down when the minimum voltage is reached. Fully charged the 14.8 packs are about 16.5 when I start running them. As they continue to run and the voltage decreases to the shut off limit, (Generally just under 12 volts) I can see the train start to slow down ever so gently. If it's convenient to go out and change the pack at that time, I might just do it. But for the most part I'll be lazy and let it shut off and change it then.









Yerrite, I never used the PCB protection with Gel cells, nicads or nimh. They just slowed down and stopped.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Ahh!!!! Paying attention !!! 

You are a scary guy Stan, you mean you don't want to bitch and moan about the battery packs, and you don't mind paying attention and noticing what is going on? 

Just to anyone who misunderstands here, I am complimenting Stan. 

So many people bitch about stuff they can actually handle with a little effort. 

OK, I will get off my soap box! 

(and of course not discharging your batteries to the bitter end will greatly prolong their life). 

Regards, Greg 

p.s. The "bitching part" is NOT directed to ANYONE on this thread... the thread just brought up a general comment...


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 08 Dec 2009 03:20 PM 
Ahh!!!! Paying attention !!! 

You are a scary guy Stan, you mean you don't want to bitch and moan about the battery packs, and you don't mind paying attention and noticing what is going on? 


Thanks, Greg.... The only time I really pay attention is when JJ's running near my trains. That can get real scary.....
















ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDD.... I just







my Li-ion's.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hoo boy! I hear JJ is building a "Plasma Death Ray" so you better watch it! 

ha ha ha! 

Greg


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

I have installed 5 RCS systems for a good friend and we have used the "suggested" NiMi "bricks with charging jacks etc. We started using the Tower Hobbies chargers until they started to fail. Bought the next recommended charger and they work....if my friend bothers to make sure the batteries get charged. he doesn't and then complains when the train stops out on the back 40. .My friend has a large outdoor layout with some areas that are a real pain to access if removing the loco or battery car is required. After reading a post here approx 2 years ago we decided to try a cordless drill battery. As shown in a previous thread, I "rigged" a black & red wire with female spade connectors that my friend could plug on to the drill batteries contacts. An older gentleman, with little patience and ability to bend over to replace locos or bat cars back on the track....he loves the drill battery!! He bought a few extras that he keeps popping them onto the charger and when a train dies, he just walks out to where the train stopped, pops in a fresh pack and away it goes. I questioned the capacity and ability of a drill battery running the larger trains for an except-able duration, but in this particular situation, he doesn't care and rarely runs his trains for more than an hour. LGB Forney with sound & some lighted car goes over 2 hours. Recently we have upgraded the drill battery set up by making custom battery block/ plugs for each train/ battery car. no more messing with wires & spad connectors. My friend has only to pop off the roof of the bat car and "plug" in a new pack. This may sound like a simple minor thing, but it took some doing (this could be your hook Rick, as most guys are still messing with wires or cutting aprt the drill packs and just using the cells)). I will post pics as soon as I can. My point to all this....for Rick....some folks may prefer an easily replaceable battery "pack" and this could be very generic (and cheap). Make a universal battery mount (to secure in a bat car) and a series of packs that will plug into it. and then a base charger. Some benefits are #1 same type battery used by several trains and thus interchangeable. #2 don't have to wait for charging (especially nice if you are about to show off your train to some guests) #3 don't have to remove bat car from track to bring to charger or 110 outlet. #4 some mass merchandised drill packs are very CHEAP! definitely not for everyone but I know at least one older gentleman that is sold on the concept. 
Don


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 08 Dec 2009 04:37 PM 
but I know at least one older gentleman that is sold on the concept. Hmmmmmmmmm, are you talking about me, Don....







And I would concur with your statement to standardize with a "socket." I've been using the R/C connectors that the Radio Control car guys have been using for years. They'll the same polarity Worldwide. 

These go on the battery...... 











and the plug goes in the battery car and on the charger













Greg..... Anytime JJ starts building something, Duck...


----------



## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, I only run a couple of hours, and hardly ever more than a couple of times in a week. I am not retired like a lot of "older gentlemen" on this site, I have a long way to go, kids take up all my time now, maybe in the future when my kids are out of the house. I have always liked what Stan does, multiple battery packs, just change them out, simple. And next spring I hope to have my next expansion done when I will have 2 loops done, then I can run more then 1 train at a time. So changing battery packs for different engines really appeals to me. I bought my charger from Don Sweet, got a good one, since my cheap one fried a RCS board, dont know why, just did, you get what you pay for. I had some people try talking me into the li-on batteries, they are probably better, but I just bought a brand new charger, I am saving my money for battery packs, not different chargers for different batteries. 

I will go to the 2.4 system, will have a reciever in the engine, currently all my engines have the batteries in the engines, on all my new purchases of engines, and when I convert the old ones, I will get away from batteries in the engines, and go all battery cars, but I will still have recievers in each engine so I can run multiple engines. 


It does not take a lot of wiring to set up multiple battery cars, wire up 2-6 cars, have 3-4 battery packs, use different cars for different situations, for me, it works.


tom h


----------



## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Forgot to say this, I love this discussion, many good ideas about different situations, thanks Rick for bringing this up, I am glad you come on these websites, you Tony, Del, do this hobby a great service by doing it, this helps a lot of people make decisions.

So THANKS to you guys!!!!!!!!

tom h


----------



## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Ha, this thread still going?? My 1.5 cents is to keep my trains moving, thus changing out low batteries at station stops and placing them on a charger seems reasonable. Rather than stopping the whole car or locos. 
As for price, over time you get tired of baby sitting cheap stuff. (which backs up most of the track powered folks complaints) 

Good stuff does not have the problems.


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Stan, 
You? an older gentleman? Gentleman yes, but older? Your photo shows you cant be a day over 39!

As to the plugs, no thats not what I was talking about. Consider your typical cordless drill. Battery typical snaps into the bottom of the handle. Pops off and gets plugged into a charger "base". Well we have made a small version of the charger base that gets installed into a box car. The battery simply gets "plugged onto this base in the box car. There are NO wires to deal with. Battery just slides down onto this "base"/ block & your done. I am so sorry I haven't got pics to show But I promise to get them within the next day or so.
D


----------



## Stan Cedarleaf (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sailbode on 09 Dec 2009 11:42 AM 
Stan, 
You? an older gentleman? Gentleman yes, but older? Your photo shows you cant be a day over 39!

As to the plugs, no thats not what I was talking about. Consider your typical cordless drill. Battery typical snaps into the bottom of the handle. Pops off and gets plugged into a charger "base". Well we have made a small version of the charger base that gets installed into a box car. The battery simply gets "plugged onto this base in the box car. There are NO wires to deal with. Battery just slides down onto this "base"/ block & your done. I am so sorry I haven't got pics to show But I promise to get them within the next day or so.
D 


Ha....... Don, I was born early in the year before 39!!! 1939, that is.







So, I'm classified as old...







There are some guys on here that are older than dirt.







But this hobby has kept us young. 


When you described your battery "socket", I knew exactly what you meant.







I did the same thing a number of years ago with Cordless Drill batteries and it worked great. As time went by, the drill batteries gave out and I would have had to do it all over again. An adapter needs to be made for each car and the again when battery styles change. That's why I choose to go the RC/Plug route. You can see that I've even used the RC plug set in this installation.

There are so many way to do things with our trains and when they work for each of us, it's great. We share ideas and use what works.


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

That's it Stan exactly....nice looking installation by the way! I see what you mean about batteries coming and going out of style....Perhaps that's where Rick can come in? Are you still with us Rick? Perhaps offer 3 different Mili amp Hour and possibly 2 different Voltages (number of cells) all with a standarized "plug in shape" and offer appropriate plug in chargers (just like the cordless drill guys).
Here is a few shots of the Milwaukee batteries and their home made recepticle:
















Here we have a pack installed in a USA trains Dome car, Dome comes off easily for access








There was some discussion about battery strength indicaters? Take a look at these Milwaukee batteries, they have a 4 LED indicator that tells batteries state of charge.


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

Hello Don and everyone... 

Still here, just reading all the posts...that's a great idea with the lithium Milwaukee battery-packs, can the lid close on the Amtrak car or is that a permanent opening? Is that RCS's basic 3 or the elite 6? 

For the first couple of models I was going to offer three basic versions: 1st 14.4V @ 3800mah . . . 2nd 16.8V @ 4200mah . . . 3rd 18V @ 4600mah, all in Nimh, and we could go up to 5000mah if need be. If those versions are well received, I will be offering versions 4 - 7 our lithium models in voltages of 14.8V, 18.5V, & 22.2V in millamps of 2600mah & 5200mah. 

Good call with your inline fuse! 

Thanks Don, have a good evening. 
Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations


----------



## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

That looks like a BASIC-5 with a TX-24 handpiece.


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

*The lid closes... actually it's the domed window section that snaps over the opening*
D


----------



## sailbode (Jan 2, 2008)

Reread this post and gave more thought to Ricks proposal and his motivation (Father and older gentleman not liking to pend over to deal with charging operations). Ad to that, not many like the idea/ expense of installing a charger in each Bat car. So why not have a "charging station on an electrically isolated section of track (siding) and a two position switch on the bat car. Up for run, middle for off, and down for accessing track/ charger. Any issues I'm not considering? I guess this is a variation of using "track power" for charging which I realize is not a new idea.


----------



## izzy0855 (Sep 30, 2008)

In all of our applications with Battery-Powered Train Cars, it just seems to be the easiest way to have an all-in-one system with the charging circuit board on-board. I'm certainly not against the idea of a side track charging station, we have one here and it's still in the prototype phase...it's not outdoors, it's actually installed and inline with our full-size caboose we had built last year. The caboose has a "Cat Door" that the train drives through, then there's a lift table with a garage door opener that brings the table from 2 inches off the floor to 30' height, then the train runs around the inside and connects to the side track charging station which plugs into to the wall outlet. 

Yes, the whole unit will be complete with Battery, Charging Circuit Board, Speaker, Sound Systems, Controller / Receiver, AC wall adaptor, Double Pole - Double Throw switch, LED Charging indicator, inline 5 amp fuse, and box car with the aristocraft quick connector. Our first system is almost complete and I will post photo's here @ MLS, or you can visit RLD Hobbies or our new website at www.cordlessrenovations.com/store for a closer look. The whole system will be in the 350 - 600 dollar range depending on what manufacturer's controller you like. 

I will keep you all update on the progress, and thanks for your ideas and comments. 

Rick Isard 
Cordless Renovations


----------



## Del Tapparo (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By izzy0855 on 28 Dec 2009 07:20 PM 
... Double Pull - Double Throw switch, ...



I believe that would be a double POLE double throw switch


----------

