# Lobbying Bachmann for a multi scale appropriate loco



## norman (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Guys:

Lobbying Bachmann for a multi scale appropriate loco: an exercise in futility?

Have hobbyists been buying all the Bachmann logging loco releases? 

Is logging operations modelling the main market place for 1:20.3 ?

Personally, I am only interested in the Bachmann American 4-4-0 but the design and production of the logging locos brought on many advancements in tooling and loco design at the Bachmann factory. 

Do you feel that Bachmann will branch out to other 1:20.3 locomotive interests or will logging remain the main 1:20.3 locomotive theme at Bachmann?

As in, should I hold out hope for any future non-logging locos from Bachmann?

Bachmann email below:




July 4, 2011

Dear Mr. Bachmann:

In response to Glen's comment:

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Withdrawal 
« on: June 30, 2011, 07:44:13 PM » 


I am feeling a sense of Large Scale Withdrawal--is there anything for ua to "Anticipate" at thje big NMRA Train Show in Sacramento next week?

I haven't even noticed the lobbying for particular models we used to see here! gj

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I would like to lobby for a 1:20.3 Baldwin 6 8 1/3 C class drawing 10.

What loco is that? 

It is the Olomana with the saddle tank removed and a rear tank installed as per the Ward Kimball conversion of his 6 8 1/3 C class drawing 4 locomotive to a drawing 10 locomotive which he then named Chloe.

This 0-4-2 C class drawing 10 locomotive, built in the 1:20.3 scale, would compliment the return production of the 1:22.5 scale Industrial loco which we all refer to as Indy.

In addition, a 2-4-4 version of this C class drawing 10 locomotive, with a longer coal/wood bin, would also be an excellent product.

Brass steam cylinders and steam domes with the Russia Iron grey boiler and Baldwin No. One pinstriping would be a "must buy" for myself.

These 0-4-2 and 2-4-4 C class 1:20.3 scale model locomotives would appeal to the 1:24, 1:22.5 and 1:20.3 hobbyists thereby providing a broad sales market.

Personally, I have not bought any Bachmann locos since the release of the 1:20.3 American 4-4-0. This loco is of a size which can be of interest to also the 1:22.5 and 1:24 scale hobbyists. The "Eureka& Paisade" and the "brown Russia Iron boiler" with brass cylinder and brass steam dome finish are outstanding models.

I have moved onto other large scale mfgs for subsequent loco purchases, which is great for the competition, but this really is not the intention of Bachmann trains! 

I guess Bachmann wishes to focus on logging locomotives. 

Maybe Bachmann should broaden its market appeal of future 1:20.3 locos, useable also in 1:22.5 and 1:22.4 scales, that are of interest for both logging and freight / passenger operations such as the 0-4-2 and 2-4-4 C class drawing 10 locomotives which were used for all of these three types of railroad operations.


Norman


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Norman, 

I agree that smaller locomotives would be nice (glad to hear of the return of the Indy, and Lynn, etc.) but I am afraid you may have hurt your credibility somewhat by complaining about Bachmann making only logging locos. The K-27 and Connie are main line locomotives, and the Mallet could be either one. Just because they made a Shay and a Climax and a Heisler doesn't mean that that's all they've made, or will make. 

I would prefer to see some engines that are proper 3' gauge US prototype models, but that are small enough to work well with other scales. The K-27 is beautiful, but enormous. I think they would have a hot seller if they made a C-16 - it would still be big, but usable in smaller scales and on smaller layouts. They could also make a nice 20.3 4-6-0 to compliment their 4-4-0 and 2-6-0, and that would also be good in the smaller scales (and look a lot better than an Annie, IMHO). 

Frankly, though, I don't see myself buying much from Bachmann any time soon. Until they realize that there is a market for a good, basic model without all the details on it, and at a much lower price, I won't be very interested.


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

That's the problem with lobbying a manufacturer...Opinions may vary. I agree, Bachmann has concentrated on industry in their recent 1:20.3 offerings and a "new" loco would be welcome...which is why I disagree with most of the previously mentioned models. 

A C-16? Been done to death by Aristo and others before them. Seen it, done it, been there. 

Chloe? LGB. Again seen it, done it. 

All are fine choices to be sure but in my opinion are a bit "stale". I would like to see something different from what has already been done (or at least a little less common). 

A Mason Bogie? A must buy for me. C.P. Huntington? You bet! 

All valid opinions, I think anything "new" would be a welcome addition!


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

Having been on this side of the fence for over a decade, I understand your feelings completely! Strangely enough, now that I have "matured" in this hobby (essentially, what I'm saying is that I don't just go out and buy the latest engine that Bachmann produces anymore) I begin to more fully understand the realities of the manufacturer's position. The Big Hauler has been upgraded five times with the last being the Annie almost a decade ago. The only real significant criticism left of this model is the robustness of it's drivetrain. Well, get ready for upgrade number six! It sounds as if Bachmann took a lesson from Barry Olson (BBT) about how to make the drivetrain much improved! This costs $$$ and Kader needs to see a return on it's investment! 
Some people have been complaining that 1:20.3 is just too large! Bachmann answers this criticism by re-issuing the beloved but diminutive Indie as well as the 2-4-2T with a completely re-done drivetrain! Not to be left out, there is the Climax which is a darn pretty little locomotive even if it is 1:20.3! By re-issuing, upgrading and modifying older issues, Bachmann brings the best of both worlds back to large scale! My guess is that these small "upgraded re-issues" are not the whole story though! Bachmann officials, though quick to point out that they aren't privy to all of the new projects in development, still confirmed that there _are_ new projects in development! If I were a betting man (and who says I'm not?) I would look at what Bachmann still has in it's current products line! Noticeably absent is.........the Connie! A 2-8-0 inside frame mainline locomotive was one of the most versatile designs utilized across America! Ahh....if I were a betting man..............


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## DKRickman (Mar 25, 2008)

Posted By Pterosaur on 05 Jul 2011 06:58 AM 
A C-16? Been done to death by Aristo and others before them. Seen it, done it, been there.
But not, as far as I know, in 1:20.3. As that seems to be the direction the NG market is expanding, and the direction B'mann wants to go, it would I think be a viable choice - the prototype is popular and it has not been done to scale, and therefore might sell well. As a side virtue, it might also satisfy a number of folks in the other scales.

For the same reasons, there are a number of Baldwin catalog 2-8-0s that would make excellent models. 

A Mason Bogie? A must buy for me. C.P. Huntington? You bet! 
Both are nice, I agree, but would they sell? I submit that if we are going to ask a manufacturer to make something, we ought to at least request something that has a fairly broad appeal.

The trouble is, it's far too easy to say there has already been a model of X wheel arrangement - 0-4-0, 2-4-0, 2-4-2, 2-6-0, 4-4-0, 4-6-0, 4-6-2, 2-8-0, 2-8-2, etc.. But if one model in a given class is sufficient, then we're about to run out of steam engines to model! What I would like to see is a good general purpose engine that lots of folks can use. That gets back to an 1880's era 2-8-0. Done right, they could sell it as a 3' gauge model, or use a different cab & tender and sell it as 1:29. They were the workhorses of the era, and of many NG railroads up to the end of steam, but so far there has only been one model made, and it cannot compete with the level or quality of detail seen on recent models.

Now, if we're just dreaming and pi$$ing in the wind, then I would like to see a Garratt in 1:24 - proper 42" gauge!


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I would say, with this economy, you will be lucky to get re-issues of older items with different numbers/paint schemes. So build what you want, or be content with what is out there.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Steve, if you were a betting man, I'd think your money would be better spent on Barry's 2-8-0 chassis.  That _anyone's_ let this much time pass without producing an affordable narrow gauge 2-8-0 defies logic, but then again, how long has it taken to get one in 1:29? What is it about "common" wheel arrangements that seem to be the most overlooked? I wonder how many 1:29 2-8-0s we'll see kitbashed into 1:20 locos in the short term? I can hope, but I'm hedging my bets with a custom chassis from Barry.  

I do think an inexpensive Mason would be well accepted. Accucraft sold out before they were even produced, and look at how many folks built their own via the masterclass articles here. If it's popular enough to get nearly 2 dozen guys to build one themselves, I'd think there would be a lot of "all thumbs" types who would shell out $600 for one. 

I'd also think that something "completely different" along the lines of EBT's M-1 would be widely accepted. 

Later, 

K


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I'd also think that something "completely different" along the lines of EBT's M-1 would be widely accepted. 
After all the work we did to get a laser-cut version with all 2000+ rivets? 

But I agree in theory. It's a neat doodlebug/gas-electric. But I bet it won't fit in ANY of Bachmann's packaging - it is about 30" long! 
( Pics on my EBT page: http://www.ebt-in-fn3.info/home/m-1-railcar )


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Pete, all the more reason for them to do it... you've got yours. (And why I fully expect them to do a C-19 in a year or two...) I do think it's a safe bet it _won't_ be an EBT mikado, though.  

Later, 

K


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

DKRickman Quote: "Both are nice, I agree, but would they sell? I submit that if we are going to ask a manufacturer to make something, we ought to at least request something that has a fairly broad appeal". 

A Mason would likely sell as fast as the limited versions offered before. I believe it would outsell a 1:20.3 C-16 even at the higher price "Spectrum" levels. Now if Bachmann wants a real "seller" the should make scale copies of Walt Disney loco's. I have yet to see a single manufacturer not sell out of their stock, and quick! LGB and Hartland examples are all but unheard of on the open market. And yes, if they offered them in 1:20.3 I would buy one in a heartbeat. Some New Bright and Lionel are still available used but they are hardly "scale" nor well made. 

Opinions do indeed vary. I suppose we need to lobby for everything!


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Personally, I am thrilled the big hauler is getting a real drive train. That's great news, as I always liked the look of the engine, but didn't care much for it's generally weak drive train. I am also excited about the 2-4-2T . Having seen the locomotive in person, I think it will be a good little engine. Both of those items are under $200 and that's going to help attract new people to the hobby. 

A Baldwin catalog 2-8-0 or something like this:


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## Steve Stockham (Jan 2, 2008)

(Heh heh heh...) Ah Kevin! Actually, I _used_ to be a betting man until I got burned BIG one time and (fortunately) it seemed to cure me of almost all types of gambling! Case in point: I have a Big Hauler that has Barry's BBT 460 drivetrain installed. We use it on our club's Christmas display because it's reliable and has excellent pulling power (due to added weight which the BBT drivetrain can easily handle!) I also have a Bumblebee BBT Annie that has been fitted with a BBT 280. The Bachmann Annie makes a wonderful 2-8-0 Consolidation when using Aristo drivers (which are slightly smaller giving it an even more narrow gauge feel.) So, as far as Barry's BBT drives go...not even a gamble! They are that reliable BUT as far as making a prognostication about what the powers that be at Bachmann are thinking? THAT is indeed an exercise in futility! My batting average_ there_ wouldn't even get me a shot at PeeWee league! I still say that, if there is anything new coming down the pike, it's got to be something that isn't competing with something from Bachmann that is already in the market! This is why I'm_ almost_ positive that Bachmann will never introduce a 10-wheeler in 1:20.3! I don't see them coming out with another Shay anytime soon either! Of course, there's always the Vulcan.....


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Whatever B'mann does make I'd bet it will use the 4-coupled drivetrain they have been using now for the Connie and the K, to me that could indicate the most likely candidates are either a EBT Mike or a C-class, either a C-16 or C-19. Now I wouldnt bet on the Mike, mostly because of all the grousing over the shear size of the K ! The Mike is everybit as big, maybe larger. Now as for the C's, sure both have been done before but the Aristo was 1/24 scale, way smaller than the 1/20 lineup, and the Accu's cost an arm, a leg and a good part of your knee (not all of us can plunk down 4 figures for an engine). If B'man could make a C at the same price level of the Connie, they'd sell alot of them! 

As for the "little engine" crowd, I kinda hope they don't resurrect the Spock-meister, I'd MUCH rather see a Bell geared locomotive, NO ONE has done one in LS yet: 










Could use the Davenport chassis for the Bell 

Or a Fireless Pneumatic ?











but just for PURE selfishness I'd love to see _someone_ make one of these"


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