# Trouble with derailments, weights, couplers...



## bicyclexc (Mar 31, 2010)

Hi everyone. I'm having some trouble with my rolling stock, every time I try to solve a problem it at least seems that a few more are created.

Among my problems *I think* are standard weights for rolling stock. NMRA sets no standard for a G scale 40' car. I ask those of you who run trains 10+ cars, how much weight do you add? Scale weight for a 70-ton hopper would be 5.7lbs, but I think that is too much. On a related topic, I read about someone putting weights on the axles to limit rolling resistance, I could use more info on that before I attempt to develop a method myself. I think about 2lbs would suffice for each hopper.

I'm also in the process of converting to kadees. Hopefully that will help... More questions may follow...

Tom


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

Regarding couplers, I have found that the best thing to do is just make sure you use same brand of coupler on ALL of your rolling stock. Since the majority of my rolling stock is Aristo, I use Aristo couplers, but only because then I don't have to change out as many cars!!! Regarding weight, I just use steel wheels on my cars, and don't worry about weight. I typically run trains with up to 20 cars with no problems including "up grades" with 10' diameter curves. 

Ed


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Was 70 tons the loaded weight? 
Metal wheels helps lower the center of gravity and are smoother rolling. They usually track better. 

John


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## bicyclexc (Mar 31, 2010)

Sorry for my slightly exasperated post earlier. I have a cut of 12 bachmann 70-ton hoppers. They have metal wheels but are not ball bearing wheels. When hooked up to my RS3 they are splitting my switches. I have to do some work on the points, but also change the couplers on everything. 

Gonna try adding 100 pennies to each car. 

Also has anyone else discovered the kadee 830 gearbox on a USAT NE caboose can interfere with the wheels on 8' curves? 

What are folks using for body mounted couplers on aristo rolling stock?


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Tom,

The desired operational car weight depends on its length and on your layout configuration and train size you operate. Cars too light in weight will "string line" on curves when operated in long, heavy trains.

In my case, I have about 180 feet of mainline track under my house comprising mostly 10 foot diameter curves, loop backs, "S" bends (though separated with short straight sections) with the longest straight track portion on the layout being about 8 feet.
Because of this layout, there is notable drag from the wheel flanges (aka, "angle of attack" or axle skew - though I've minimized the skew using spacer washers on the axle tips).

To me a 30 car train is a short train. I have successfully run 60 car trains on this layout without derailments and coupler separations that are at risk with Aristo knuckle couplers (I use Kadee centerset body mounted couplers.) All cars have metal wheels installed.

The following video is a 61 car train on the 8 foot straight section.



The following video is a 62 car train that includes Aristo 40 foot flat cars that are lowered and weighted to 3 lbs.


The following video is a 63 car train.




Given the layout, I have found that a 40 foot type car with an overall weight not less than 2.75 lbs is good. Longer cars like the USAT 50 - 60 foot cars, and container cars are good at about 5 lbs. The AML PS 4750 ft3 covered hoppers are marginal at 3.5 lbs. 

I have many "vignettes" about various cars with respect to mounting Kadee body mount centerset couplers, many of which includes car weights or adding weights.
The "*vignettes*" are hosted for me by Greg E. on his Web site.

Once at the site, scroll through the left side menu list and pick (click on) what you think may be helpful to you.

I hope this of help,
-Ted


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ted, 

Since you find the AML hoppers to be ''marginal at 3.5 #'s'', it would seem to follow the longer 50-60 ft USA cars for length. 

I would think they also should weigh about 5 #'s. 

Do you - or have you, added weight to them? THX! 

Dirk - DMS Ry.


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Dirk, 

I have not yet added weight to the AML hoppers since they seem to work on my layout. But to give some better margin, more weight would be desirable. I think 4 lbs for these would be more to my liking. 
Since my outdoor layout extension includes grades, I prefer to strike a compromise and only keep the added weight as needed so I can pull as many cars as possible up the grades. The USAT metal tank cars from the factory are very heavy. On a flat, very wide curved layout, the weight would be of less concern. 

-Ted


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## bicyclexc (Mar 31, 2010)

So TED, you have luck with body mounted couplers on 7' diameter loops? That isn't too tight? I have 2 8' diameter turnaround loops that I thought would prevent me from using body mounted couplers on my bachmann 70-ton hoppers.


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Ted, 

Interesting remarks. On My larger curves - a string of 40 ft. cars would be still close to a straight line....in effect... 

I have tried several times to come up with a G scale weight schedule, like NMRA has for smaller scales, that could work for Large Scale freight cars also..but alas it runs into trouble... 

I built a 66ft mill gon., which weighed 3 pds. , but added 1 pd. of ballast. Still only 4 pounds now, but seems heavy, so 3.5 may be better... but on the over length cars I build they come out basically over weight, and I do not want to try and get them on a diet! 

So I have not come up with a 'consistent' program to get all cars on the same page based on car lengths vs. weight... 

And your thoughts regarding larger layouts may mean I will not have to worry about it as much as others may..!! 

Dirk ...


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bicyclexc on 16 Jul 2013 05:07 PM 
So TED, you have luck with body mounted couplers on 7' diameter loops? That isn't too tight? I have 2 8' diameter turnaround loops that I thought would prevent me from using body mounted couplers on my bachmann 70-ton hoppers. Where does Ted mention 7 foot diameter curves? He says his curves are 10 diameter OR 5 RADIUS! Above, you say you have 2 8' diameter or a 4 foot RADIUS. BIG difference. I started in the hobby with LGB so-called "8 foot diameter" (they are actually UNDER 4 feet). Pretty tight radius for the cars you are running, IMHO.

As far as the weight of your cars, I run all 1/20.3 NG cars. The freight cars weigh a minimum of 3.5 pounds each and these are small cars. My J&S coaches weight over 6.5 pounds each. ALL of my rolling stock runs on steel wheels and ball-bearings. ALL have body mount couplers. My layout will have a minimumof 15 ft. diameter (7.5 ft. radius curves). The layout I have run on is minimum 15 ft. diameter.

Ball-bearings and steel wheels will prove their worth in a short time.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have mostly 14' curves on my mainline, but some 10', notably a hairpin turn and then a 5.5% downgrade. My small inner loop is all 10' curves and I found early on I was pulling cars off the rails. 

I found the rolling resistance of my caboose with carbon brushes was enough to pull the lightweight bachmann cars from the Big Hauler set right off the rails. 

Over time I found that weighting the cars properly and also gauging them made a huge difference. 

Now I have no problems. I run my 40 footers at 3-4 pounds. 

Regards, Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Steel wheels????? I have many metal wheels, none are steel, but a couple are stainless steel. 
I have plated brass wheels. Steel axles...yes, but not the wheels. 

SO, my outdoor rolling stock has rusted axles, but no rusted wheels.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

AML has steel wheels, and Aristo diesels have steel wheels, some plated some not.


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## bicyclexc (Mar 31, 2010)

Ted says in his video that his reversing loop is 7ft diameter. Right here: http://youtu.be/4RW0HRTkpOw?t=52s. He may have misspoke, if he didn't that is truly impressive and I need to replicate it  

I'm never going to run any trains longer than 12 cars since I do a branch-line operation and my passing siding is only 21'. Sadly though I only had room for 8'D reversing loops :/ 

I fitted 2 rolls of pennies to a test-hopper to see how it works, it seems light enough not to damage the solid bearings, yet it weights 2.5lbs now. 

Greg, for my caboose I removed those brushes immediately. They're horrible. They're like having the breaks stuck on all the time. 

The battle continues.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, all carbon brushes were banished about 5 or 6 years ago. 

Now stuff works


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## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

Posted By bicyclexc on 17 Jul 2013 08:43 AM 
SNIP-
Ted says in his video that his reversing loop is 7ft diameter. Right here: http://youtu.be/4RW0HRTkpOw?t=52s. He may have misspoke, if he didn't that is truly impressive and I need to replicate it  
-SNIP


Tom,-sorry for the confusion.

I played the video to see how the loop back is described. In the audio between 0.5 and 1 minute, I stated it is 270 degrees and 10 foot in diameter. It's possible someone may think they hear 7 foot, but it is 10 foot.

My layout is described in article:
*Under house suspended layout article*

-Ted


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

First thing to check on switch problems is the gauge of your wheels. You said you had Bachmann, I've found them to be the worst on being in gauge. I use metal wheels on all of my cars, but no added weight, have not found it necessary.


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