# Trains in a HOT attic



## Guest (Jul 19, 2008)

Ok so i will be moving soon to the new house if all goes well, i will need to store some of my trains temporaly in the attic. now in my old home my attic got about 120 degrees in the summer so i stored the trains in the basement, but will not have that option with the new house. do any of you have experiance with storing trains in the attic? if so did it harm them or any of there components? its almost 100 degrees here in NY today and im a bit nervous about have to store them in the attic in the heat/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/ermm.gif 
Nick...


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, 

I don't think I would do it. I have empty boxes up there, but I wouldn't put trains up there.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Stored stuff in the attic here in Nashvegas, TN for years, ditto with a friend, wood, brass, plastic, no harm....


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

I wouldn't do it (I do have an attic available myself, but would only consider storing empty boxes there). It's up to you, of course, but my advice would be to avoid storing trains--any trains--in a really hot attic.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Put a thamometer up there and see just how hot it is. we set roof power fans at around 150 degrees. I worry more about the winter cold on the plastic.\ 
It may not be as hot as you think. 
Sitting out on the RR they get over 100 in full sun easy. 
Have a roofer check to see if its properly vented.


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## Guest (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for all the advise Guys. Marty i will do that as soon as we get in there, and check to see what the temp really is.. thanks all. 
Nick..


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Susan's dad found a shoebox in his attic with some marbles from when Susan and her sisters were kids. The shoe box was in fine shape, but the glass marbles had flattened and were no longer round! Susan thought they must have got hot enough to melt, but the cardboard box wasn't marked at all.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Remember, the majority of our model RR stuff comes to the US by containers on the decks of ships, which get as hot or hotter inside Vs. a ventilated attic. Insulated ones are reserved for drugs, chemicals, foods, etc.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

160 degrees is about the limit. I think this comes from tests long ago in closed cars in Arizona. 

The heat will age the plastic faster and make it brittle, but many people in Arizona will attest to temperatures like this outside. 

I would think an attic fan will keep it cool enough not to worry. 

Speaking of heat in containers, I just received a box of 5' Aristo straights, and a fair amount of the wax had melted and screws were all over the inside of the box. I'm assuming it's from the containers, but it could have been storage by the distributor. 

Regards, Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

experiance with storing trains in the attic

I didn't store mine - I ran them. We dry-walled the attic and I got to use it as a train room. 

It was outside the a/c area, but when the guys did the walls, they installed 'troughs' of expanded plastic under the insulation, against the roof, between the rafters. These provided an air channel from the soffit behind the gutter to the airspace at the top which was vented by the usual end gable vents. I was astounded how cool it was, even in a NJ summer. 

So my suggestion would be to put some insulation between the rafters and fit these air circulation channels behind the insulation. Good vents should help. A fan to the outside with a thermostat that turns on when it gets hot should keeps things even cooler.


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

I wouldn't do it. Even with an attic fan the radiant heat that will come from the roof (unless you install radiant barrier like I did) will still heat the trains. 


Raymond


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2008)

Welp i went over to the new house yesterday to check on the tile guys, and i stuck a meat thermomiter in the attic and went back today at about 3pm and that bad boy said 136 degrees, now mind you this is a bare attic right now with just eve vents....im thinking that maybe to warm for the trains, im afraid the grease and oil will start to get thin and run off the engines/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gifthink i will have to come up with another ideal for storage for now...i cant put them in the basement for a while as it will be almost filled with stuff from the move for 6 or 8 months. maybe i will have to look into renting something for the short term.... 
Nick....


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## Rayman4449 (Jan 2, 2008)

How much room is your girlfriend taking up you think?  

Just trying to help... /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/tongue.gif 


Raymond


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## Guest (Jul 21, 2008)

More than i want to give her, but you know how that goes... give a little they take alot/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gifi tried to tell her this house is going to be different... trains 1st evrything else 2nd, but no she has to go change her mind about a 100 times really starting to get on my nerves and you all know what a none confrintational person i am../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gifanyway at least i get to keep my flat screen tv and my trains so life is good/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/cry.gif she says i have to buy a new chair for the living room cause it doesnt match or somthin, i was like what the ****!!!! i love that chair its been with me thru 2 wifes and i cant tell you how many girlfreinds, and she looked at me like she wanted to throw a pot at me or somthin..../DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gifso why not im thinkin, shes makin me buy all new pots and pans and plates and bla bla bla. i can tell you what this arrangment is seriuosly cutting into my train buget and my last nerves... HE HE HE/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/w00t.gifNick...


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

love that chair its been with me thru 2 wifes and i cant tell you how many girlfreinds

Nick - that's the problem with the chair. She'll NEVER be happy about a chair that you tell her has been thru 2 wives, etc. 

As long as she leaves your trains alone, go with the flow....


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

$0.02

Rent storage at a U-Stor-It (or whatever name) near you. But make sure it is insulated or weather proofed. Newly/recently built units tend to come standard with weather proofing. If your trains will fit in an attic you probably only need a small storage unit so the cost will be minimal. Believe me, attic baked trains are not worth the risk.


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## Robert Fasnacht (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick, for me, it's either put them in the attic or set them outside forever. Den is filled--to my sweetie's eternal disgust, 16X24 shed is overflowing and I'm simply at my wits end where to store stuff. So far, it has been my experience that the attic environment has not adversely affected my rolling stock. No locomotive subjected to temperature extremes because of lubrication concerns. Attic is located in Northwest Florida where summer temperatures nearly reach 100 degrees F. Nevertheless, when I climb up to get some cars I want to run, I routinely discover nothing has melted or assumed an odd shape. I too worried about the effects of high heat but now believe that attic storage is not necesssarily a bad idea. I daresay, rolling stock sitting on an outdoor track in the hot sun is probably subjected to the same type of temperatures present in the attic. So hundreds await my beck and call over my head. Bob


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

My grandpa had his Lionel train layout and collection in a finished attic for 50+ years... Maybe they were made of sterner stuff?


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Glass marbles ......flattened /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/laugh.gif 

I'm not buying it. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/unsure.gif


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chris Scott on 07/23/2008 8:06 PM
$0.02 
Rent storage at a U-Stor-It (or whatever name) near you. But make sure it is insulated or weather proofed. Newly/recently built units tend to come standard with weather proofing. If your trains will fit in an attic you probably only need a small storage unit so the cost will be minimal. Believe me, attic baked trains are not worth the risk.






Having been around both attics and U-stor-its (from climate controlled to the metal shed) I do not see any difference between an insulated unit (non climate controlled) and a house attic? 

The outdoor comments are valid, there you are dealing with the sun and uneven (roof in sun, bottom in shade) heat which brings about warpage.....


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## Steamnutt (Apr 12, 2008)

Nick, 
At my parents house which was built in the early 50's, there were eve vents, but nothing else. We found that there was a problem with some plastics melting on some items (mostly Christmas decorations). When they had the roof replaced several years ago, I talked them into adding a ridge vent and soffit vents during the project. They also added a thermostat controlled fan (which just moves the air when it hits a preset temp). 
Since the additions, they haven't had any problems with things melting (which now include some trains that are stored up there). 
They live in MD, so the summer temps can get quite warm. 

I think the insulation idea is a great one, and the truss vents can be purchased at any home improvement store (we installed them when my wife and I built our room addition). 

Good luck


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

ive been reading and im one that thinks strong extremes are potentially harmful -to plastic, lube, and even other components such as wire and the fibreboard or cardboard /paper portions of certain electrical components, even some paint/ink may craze -it does dry things out eventually 
of course a day or a week might be ok/tolerable-maybe even longer if the temps did go not too high- 
for electircal or more delciate things like muscial insturments i usually use the rule -if it too hot or cold for a human-then its not ok- 
id just consider how unhappy youll be if your collection is damaged-and the cost and time of repair-IF you can 
i have an insulated attic with 2 large thermo fans and vents -(and a concrete roof here in CO, with a large portion shaded by a huge maple tree 
-tis hotter n **** up in my attic on a summer day even with both fans blowing and all the vents-id never put anything other than metal or something i was willing to see destroyed up there- 
plus later in the year there might be critters 
and some of em eat anything


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## Pete Chimney (Jan 12, 2008)

Pure silica glass melts at a temperature of some 1600 deg C or 2900 deg. F. Assuming the marbles were not pure silica but rather had some admixtures (flux) the softening point would still be beyond 2000 deg. F. Before this temperature was reached the entire house would long have spontaeously combusted. 

My guess is the "glass" marbles were in fact a form of hard plastic and this plastic softened and deformed in the 125-150 deg F range.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Again posts on speculation that there may be problems, but none saying "I stored something up there and it failed". 

I guess our over ten years of storing stuff in attics (not just trains either but other model kits) without problems in TN (95 here today BTW) must be bogus? 

And the only "lube dry out" problem I have had on an LGB piece is one that sits on display in the family room which is 68 in summer and 72 in winter.....


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 07/28/2008 3:29 PM
Again posts on speculation that there may be problems, but none saying "I stored something up there and it failed". 
I guess our over ten years of storing stuff in attics (not just trains either but other model kits) without problems in TN (95 here today BTW) must be bogus? 
And the only "lube dry out" problem I have had on an LGB piece is one that sits on display in the family room which is 68 in summer and 72 in winter.....




well most folks admitted it WAS only speculation 


if your giving a guarantee 

ill try it


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Experience? Do I have real experience. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crazy.gif /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sick.gif 


I've stored for long periods in the following (from worst to best): 


1. Ribbed steel bolt together 8x8 yard shed (4yr, '01-04), Sonoma, CA (southern exposure) - a true oven.


2. Attic: 1970 (built) garage attic (10yr, 1990(bought)-'00) Uninsulated, comp. roof, Sunnyvale, CA (southern exposure, no shade) - very hot, baked anything. 


3. Attic: 1985 (custom built) garage attic (5 years) '85-00) Uninsulated, comp. roof, Sacramento, CA (southern exposure, no shade) - very hot, baked anything. 


4. Tuff Shed (10x12 wood frame, T-111 siding (uninsulated)), 4yr, '04-08, Sonoma, CA, (middle of open lot, no shade) Better than metal shed having rafter and gable vents, but still hot.


5. Insulated storage locker 10x25 (built '97), (3 yrs, '98-01) (store furniture, household, trains, etc., during house build), Sonoma, CA (back to back row units, steel roll-up door northern exposure - kept the storage from heating through sun baked steel door.) Stayed reasonable temp on hot days. 


6. Attic: 2001 (custom built) garage attic ('01-to date). 20x35 detached garage, 2x6 walls R20+ cellulose insulated & R30+ flat ceiling (fiberglass bats), sheet rocked & painted. Insulated roll up 4 panel (typ.) door (northern exposure. Attic storage: 20x17, ext. & pony walls: 3ea.x1"=R20+ rigid foam panels (R7/in", foil-faced Poly-board); ceiling/rafters 4ea.x1"=R28 (same foam board), sheet rocked and painted. (to building codes; florescent lights, electrical and fire sprinklers 


No, I did not learn from my (#3) '85-90 attic experience storing stuff in another uninsulated attic '90-00 (#4). But the third time is the charm and our current house my garage attic is perfect, maybe gets to 80 on a 100+ day. Same day, I can walk into the garage in mid afternoon and it's barely 70 degrees, and in the mornings it's downright cold (temp drops to 50s overnight in the summer here.) The insulated attic essentially double insulates the garage itself. Makes working in my garage shop very pleasant in the hot summer or cold winter with a small space heater. 


From experience... ONLY #5 or #6 were/are safe. Anything in an uninsulated attic exposed to temperature extremes will be cooked, and very well done. I used to collect old LGB and bought lots off eBay. Whenever anyone wrote telling me the item was/had been stored in their attic (house or garage), and after the first several times the item always arriving w/faded box, often red gloss paper peeling, box sleeve warped, yellowed cellophane, and sometimes wheel axles (or other parts) warped, after that I always avoided or canceled buys from attic storage. I have suffered through baked Christmas ornaments, disintegrated carpets, warped 33rpm records, among numerous other ruined items. 


I hope some can benefit from my bad and good experiences. But I suppose that is just speculation.


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## GURU388 (Jan 5, 2008)

Motor block side walls warp in the shape of a mild smile on USA locos. I keep my engines in a hot shed and had to buy new side walls. Bummer!!


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chris Scott on 07/30/2008 6:39 PM
Experience? Do I have real experience. 

From experience... ONLY #5 or #6 were/are safe. Anything in an uninsulated attic exposed to temperature extremes will be cooked, and very well done. I used to collect old LGB and bought lots off eBay. Whenever anyone wrote telling me the item was/had been stored in their attic (house or garage), and after the first several times the item always arriving w/faded box, often red gloss paper peeling, box sleeve warped, yellowed cellophane, and sometimes wheel axles (or other parts) warped, after that I always avoided or canceled buys from attic storage. 




Interesting on the yellowed windows in boxes. I got some NIB 1980s LGB that had yellowed windows, UV as they sat in a shop window. The attic boxes are still clear. Basement boxes from Yankeeland are sometimes bad news due to the smell/and sometimes mold/moisture damage. 

Never had any problems with the Luran plastic, it's primary function is automotive applications. And last time I checked LGB axels are steel?


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 08/02/2008 12:19 PM
Posted By Chris Scott on 07/30/2008 6:39 PM 
Experience? Do I have real experience. 
From experience... ONLY #5 or #6 were/are safe. Anything in an uninsulated attic exposed to temperature extremes will be cooked, and very well done. I used to collect old LGB and bought lots off eBay. Whenever anyone wrote telling me the item was/had been stored in their attic (house or garage), and after the first several times the item always arriving w/faded box, often red gloss paper peeling, box sleeve warped, yellowed cellophane, and sometimes wheel axles (or other parts) warped, after that I always avoided or canceled buys from attic storage. 


Interesting on the yellowed windows in boxes. I got some NIB 1980s LGB that had yellowed windows, UV as they sat in a shop window. The attic boxes are still clear. Basement boxes from Yankeeland are sometimes bad news due to the smell/and sometimes mold/moisture damage. 
Never had any problems with the Luran plastic, it's primary function is automotive applications. And last time I checked LGB axels are steel?




I have not opened or been near my LGB stuff in 10 or 11 years since being infected with Live Steam (oh, and having to move all that LGB stuff - twice. So memory being what it is I probably have forgotten more than I knew on LGB mechanicals. Yellow or not windows? I mostly just remember attic dust and dirt; the windows dirty, brittle, and the glue brakedown (detached windows) from temp extremes. 

Of course. a lot depends on how your trains are stored in a shed or attic. Whether they are in larger cardboard cartons or loose. 

Soil conditions typically prevent basements in California, except for maybe the occasional wine cellar at least here Northern California(but the construction costs are quite expensive). It's easier to build a temp controlled/humidity room/closet inside the house or buy a specialty refrig.


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