# A fishing expedition, fishing for ideas and information...



## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

I posted this earlier in the introductions forum and it was suggested that I re-post here.

Hi, my net name is studeclunker. I live in northern California. My this is a tiny font, isn't it? The place I live in is located on the side of an arroyo overlooking Hwy. 299 and Grass Valley Creek which empties into the Trinity River. The natural scenery is pleasant enough. I'm currently looking for G.R.R. sages to advise me in how I can move my collection out of the display case and into the yard. I've had two small garden railways. Neither was of any consequence. Both were just a loop of track with a side-line at the station. It kept my son happy for hours at a time though. Now I'd like to do something like I've seen in Garden Railways Magazine. The area I'd like to place it is in one of two places. One is flat and very compacted. It's been a parking lot for old cars and junk for decades. The other is our orchard (some orchard, it's got three whole trees (LOL).







). The parking lot is about a hundred-fifty to two hundred feet long with a green house in the centre-rear of it, by about fifty to seventy feet and mostly sunny. The petite orchard is about fifty feet square, grassy and very shady in places.

My rolling stock consists of LGB, REA/Aristocraft, Bachman, Lionel and a few odd pieces (some very odd). There is currently not much trackage. I could use some brass rail to go with my tie strips. In that way I'd be able to triple my track. Anyone have any ideas? Just a few buildings. Most of them are pretty beat up and in need of fixing.

So I suppose one could say I'm here on a fishing expedition. fishing for ideas and information.

Thanks in advance...

Studeclunker

I've decided against our little orchard. Instead I'm kinda thinking about the south and west yards. Here's some shots of them:

The west yard:









The south yard:


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## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

Okay, that worked, so here's a few of my rolling stock:


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## wildbill001 (Feb 28, 2008)

My first thought, somewhat tongue-in-cheek, is a layout over and around the old studebakers (those are studebaker wagons aren't they?). This could be a "Land of the little people" vs "Land of the Giants" kind of thing.







I know sounds kind of wacky but your RR would be close to eye-level. You wouldn't need to worry as much about leaves, crud, etc. on the track.

bill


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## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

Interesting idea Bill, but no. The cars will all be moved out of that area. Even if I don't use it for the trains, it will be used as a garden. Yes, those are Studebaker wagons. One is a '63 Daytona just sold and bound for upstate New York, and the other is my wagon, a '56 Parkview. My roomate's '50 Plymouth can be seen in the photo also.

I've been thinking along the line of an elevated railway. There's so much stone around here I thought it would be a good medium for the walls of an elevated garden for the railway. Soil, on the other hand, is not so common a commodity around here. So, not only will I have to, literally, create it, but also fill to a depth of from one to three feet. A considerable challenge to be sure.

Then there's the track. I have quite a bit of LGB, Aristo, and Lionel. I kept a case of rail base, but the rails have long ceased to exist. So I need rail, preferably Brass.

I was thinking along the line of a Commuter sharing trackage with a Short Line.


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2009)

use the southyard. 
some of your rolling stock is pretty long. so you should make the curves very wide.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Definitely go with the souh yard. You will be able to use broad curves for the long heavy weight pass cars. Looks like a challenge for sure. Later RJD


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

South Yard! 

(With or without the studebakers  )


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Stude, (or should I call you Clunker? ;-)

The general response has been pro that big flat South yard, (wouldn't we all like a space as big as that - I'm in a condo!) However, one of the issues to consider is biting off more than you can chew. 

If you are starting from scratch, it is sometimes better to start small and expand later, as you get experience. It's very discouraging to be always building the base and laying endless track without running any trains. (Ask me how I know..) 

The elevated track doesn't have to be all that high. Mine was 18" above grade, as that happened to be the height of the flowerbed. I'd suggest moving some rocks to make the outline of a raised garden, and then fill it with smaller rocks - you don't need 3' of soil. Just fill with soil when you have the rocks in place. Plants in your area must be used to rocky soil! 

One interesting possibility, as you have a long side, is a 'dogbone' layout: 










Basically an oval with the sides squashed together, it lets you have a center section that looks like double track mainline. You could have a loop at each end of the parking area and a long gently curved center section. You can get running by making one loop first and connecting the two sides in a circle.


I have one of those Atlantics - used as a pilot for my Pacific:


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## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

Pete, most people call me Stude, or Studee. Though, _some_ call me Clunk. both fit the cars...

I don't know if you folks can see it, there's a rather steep hill behind the south yard. It affords me the option of putting at least part of the layout up against there. this would save me buildiing at least one side of the garden wall. Nearly waist height is practically necessary. See, I've got bad knees and kneeling for any length of time is... uncomfortable, to say the least. Maybe two feet or so...

Course, building against the hill has it's inherent problems as well. Such as the trees. There's about nine of them there. Six at least would have to come out, not that we have a shortage of them here...

That trestle is... SPECTACULAR! It gives me ideas. How about the bulk of the railway up against the bank and an island out in the garden? A double trestle could connect the two. #;-))

I wish my Lionel was usable right now. She's my favourite by far. The drive linkage is broken on the left side. Silly stuff is made of some kind of fragile plastic. She rolled over on a friend's layout whilst pulling my smaller passenger coaches. The curve she was negotiating was undermined by a recent rain and because of the landscaping it went unnoticed. Hence, I'm a fan of concrete roadbase. I have yet to find repair parts.

Yeah, I know those Heavyweights need b-r-o-a-d curves. Consequently, they've never been run. I have 16000 curve track (LGB), and wide switches. Still, they hang over quite a bit. That poor old Lionel just can't pull them. However, I won a FA1 and two FB1s on the 'bay this past week and they should be up to it. As to the curves, I have a rail bender and track strips, so should be able to accomodate them when I can come up with some rail. I'd just rather stick with brass. Aluminium just doesn't do it for me. I tried it some time ago and it wasn't quite cricket.
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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

It affords me the option of putting at least part of the layout up against there.


Good thought. Always easier to use the existing terrain. (Amazing how often our activity matches the real thing.) 4' high will be even easier on those knees. 

That trestle is... SPECTACULAR


If you think that's nice, you should see the bridge: 




























wish my Lionel was usable right now


The guy who bought them all from Lionel is usually at ECLSTS and I'll be there in a couple of weeks. I think he sells them for about $125 if you want another.
I know those Heavyweights need b-r-o-a-d curves



There's a bunch of things you can do to make them (a) run more easily and (b) get round tight curves. If they have 6 wheel trucks, one trick is to remove the center pair of wheels.


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## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 03/17/2009 11:37 AM

It affords me the option of putting at least part of the layout up against there.


Good thought. Always easier to use the existing terrain. (Amazing how often our activity matches the real thing.) 4' high will be even easier on those knees. 


That trestle is... SPECTACULAR


If you think that's nice, you should see the bridge: 












wish my Lionel was usable right now
The guy who bought them all from Lionel is usually at ECLSTS and I'll be there in a couple of weeks. I think he sells them for about $125 if you want another.
I know those Heavyweights need b-r-o-a-d curves


There's a bunch of things you can do to make them (a) run more easily and (b) get round tight curves. If they have 6 wheel trucks, one trick is to remove the center pair of wheels. 

Oh... My... GOSH!! =8-0 THAT IS AMAZING DETAIL!! I'm afraid that my patience for such a thing just simply won't work. I want to get the thing going and play with it too soon. Then again... I could put in a temporary bridge whilst building the other... Nah, I'd rather play. #;-)

What is ECLSTS? What does the acronym stand for? Do you mean that the fella sells the engines or the linkage? One and a quarter for the linkage is a bit pricey for just the linkage and a STEAL for the engine. If it's for the engine, I'll borrow, beg or steal to get the cash, so... YES, please, let me know when you're going. Then again, can I go too???


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Stude, 

Here's an option for you. You could face the front with some of those rocks you've got and it'd look just like a raised bed without moving all that dirt. Too, the hollow space inside provides for excellent runs for track or structure lighting. 










I use a nominal 40" height for the benchwork but it could be made to any height desired. I'm not trying to "sell" the method, just give you another option for all or part of your RR.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I am personally heavily leaning towards the Port Orford Coast's method of raising the layout. A few house projects cropped up this summer though. (sigh) 

Chas


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## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

Richard, thank you for that shot and an excellent idea. You're entirely right. some of the techniques used in an indoor bench _can_ be used outside. As you've demonstrated, very effectively. I will definately consider your idea for a large portion of my layout. The towns would especially benefit from this method. How do you deal with rainfall and runoff thereof though?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

What is ECLSTS? What does the acronym stand for? Do you mean that the fella sells the engines or the linkage? One and a quarter for the linkage is a bit pricey for just the linkage and a STEAL for the engine. If it's for the engine, I'll borrow, beg or steal to get the cash, so... YES, please, let me know when you're going. Then again, can I go too???


Stude, 

You can come, but it is here (RH coast) in York, PA. MLS thread here: 
http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/13/postid/80400/view/topic/Default.aspx 

Website here: 
http://www.largescaletrainshows.com/cat_index_22.html 

a STEAL for the engine 


Yes, I meant the whole engine - he had a dozen last year NIB, and my memory might be failing; they could have been $250. Stay tuned while I try to find the thread... I think is was after last year (or the year before.)
Anyone remember?


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By studeclunker on 03/17/2009 3:12 PM
Richard, thank you for that shot and an excellent idea. You're entirely right. some of the techniques used in an indoor bench _can_ be used outside. As you've demonstrated, very effectively. I will definately consider your idea for a large portion of my layout. The towns would especially benefit from this method. How do you deal with rainfall and runoff thereof though? 

*People are probably getting tired of this photo but it best shows the different layers of construction and its natural drainage.










Pressure treated framework covered next with hardware cloth (the galvanized screen material), landscape fabric over that, roadbed 1-1/2" deep and then dirt and ballast. Rain water soaks through the dirt and ballast and then through the landscape fabric to fall to the ground below. Water will puddle a bit briefly in the dirt in a heavy rain but quickly soaks through and is gone. Near zero puddling in the ballast part.*


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2009)

People are probably getting tired of this photo 
those, who get tired, may close their eyes. 

richard, your pic above has just one fault: it is lonely. 
you got one of the finest layouts -so go and show off!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

The trick here, Stude, is to look around and see what other people have done, then decide what you want to do.


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

I think he sells them for about 


Well, that was wishful thinking. $350 would be more like it - see http://archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38112. (2006!) 

The same vendor is booked to ECLSTS this year, so I'll let you know how much he wants this year.


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Pete Thornton on 03/18/2009 7:52 AM
I think he sells them for about 


Well, that was wishful thinking. $350 would be more like it - see http://archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38112. (2006!) 

The same vendor is booked to ECLSTS this year, so I'll let you know how much he wants this year.



Thanks Pete! keep us that cannot go to the ECLSTS this year informed.

Chas


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## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

Posted By Richard Smith on 03/17/2009 3:33 PM

Posted By studeclunker on 03/17/2009 3:12 PM
Richard, thank you for that shot and an excellent idea. You're entirely right. some of the techniques used in an indoor bench _can_ be used outside. As you've demonstrated, very effectively. I will definately consider your idea for a large portion of my layout. The towns would especially benefit from this method. How do you deal with rainfall and runoff thereof though? 

*People are probably getting tired of this photo but it best shows the different layers of construction and its natural drainage.










Pressure treated framework covered next with hardware cloth (the galvanized screen material), landscape fabric over that, roadbed 1-1/2" deep and then dirt and ballast. Rain water soaks through the dirt and ballast and then through the landscape fabric to fall to the ground below. Water will puddle a bit briefly in the dirt in a heavy rain but quickly soaks through and is gone. Near zero puddling in the ballast part.*



Very interesting technique. Quite do-able in my case. About the trackage: I noticed the side-boards and cross-bracing. Is this something like the Ladder System I saw in Garden Railways Magazine some years back? I suppose it would be attached to the framework of the bench?


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## Richard Smith (Jan 2, 2008)

_"Very interesting technique. Quite do-able in my case. About the trackage: I noticed the side-boards and cross-bracing. Is this something like the Ladder System I saw in Garden Railways Magazine some years back? I suppose it would be attached to the framework of the bench?" _ 

Yes I use ladder type roadbed except the side laths are well painted cedar and the blocks a combination of cedar and PT scraps. Since the benchwork cross pieces are 16" apart I place a spacer block every 8" thus placing every other spacer above a cross piece where it can screwed down. I prefer cedar because it has greater rigidity up and down than the composite materials I've seen. Since the raised benchwork drains moisture so well I've had no problem with rotting so far. Ground level might be better served with the composite materials since support is continuous along its length.


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