# Betsy Builder's log - continued



## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a continuation of the log in the "old" mylargescale:

archive.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp


As a reminder:

I am trying to build Betsy from  Madera Sugarpine:

http://www.gearedsteam.com/other/images/madera_sugarpine_co-thunder.jpg
_Image exceeds 640 pixel max. width - converted to link. Mod.
_
Progress so far:
Valve gear with home made eccentrics is ready and the chassis has been run successfully on air.



















Next tasks are machining a new reversing valve (the Accucraft valve is too bulky)  Mamod style, replacing some of the friction bearings with ball bearings and attaching the boiler. The first steam test should be 1-2months away.
Regards


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Henner:  Looking good.  If you don't mind, next time you have the cylinders apart could you post a photo.  Would like to see how these inside valve, outside cylinder set-ups get attached to the frame.

Thanks and keep up the great work, Bob


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By xo18thfa on 01/21/2008 12:00 PM
Hi Henner:  Looking good.  If you don't mind, next time you have the cylinders apart could you post a photo.  Would like to see how these inside valve, outside cylinder set-ups get attached to the frame.

Thanks and keep up the great work, Bob

Hi Bob,
I'll make a photo within the next 2 weeks. It is actually very simple: A filler piece, longer screws and 1/32" gasket material. I hope the gasket material is sufficient to insulate the cylinder from the frame. Steam tests will show...
Regards


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Some more progress: Betsy is running on steam! The first attempt was disappointing; I used a Ruby burner, which was way too whimpy. The second attempt with a borrowed Accucraft Shay burner was more successful, see:

www.youtube.com/watch

The dog in the clip is Eric's railroad dog "Casey" Oh, and without a throttle yet she is a bit speedy/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/blink.gif.

Here a picture of how I sandwiched the cylinders betwen the frames (the brass parts are insulated from the frame channel by gasket material):











That's how she looks currently:











All axles are now equipped with ball bearings and the boiler is attached to the frames. Next step will be the reverser/throttle and a dedicated burner.
Regards


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

She's looking real good Henner! Nice job mounting the cylinders. Keep the progress pics coming.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Betsy has grown a little bit. She now sports a smoke box door, reversing/throttle valve, her own burner/gas tank and a servo. The idea is to iron out all technical issues, before I start with the "fun stuff" like smoke stack, cab, saddle tank. So far the performance of Betsy is not bad, she is quite lively and pulls pretty heavy trains. She also climbs my 8% logging line with 2 pairs of loaded disconnects. See the short video clip (3% grade on a R3 curve):


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Some more progress:
Smoke stack and buffer beams have been added. next step will either be the saddle tank or the cab. Piping is still temporary, as I have to figure out where to place the filler and safety valve. I know, it is not a main line loco and it runs on a ground level layout, but this my interpretation of our great hobby







.













Regards


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner; beautiful work, as usual. Looking forward to the finished product.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow! one of my favorite engines! Looks great, can't wait to see how she turns out.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words. Howard, one of these days we have to have a steam-up with your Climax and my Betsy doing some serious pulling (e.g. flatcars loaded with steam donkeys) 
Regards


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## redbeard (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Henner, 
I have been following your log also, nice loco! I am interested in the reverser valve, as I am also not pleased with the bulk of the Ruby reverser. You mention earlier in the post " new reversing valve (the Accucraft valve is too bulky) Mamod style" , any chance of a closer look at the valve? I am gathering parts for another "ruby Bash" that would be nicer if I could build a more compact reverser. Thanks again for the burner comment, but if I had listened to Larry Herget to start with I would not have had to chase the steam genie quite so hard. But I have learned a lot on this project.................like listen to "ol fart" !! 
redbeard AKA Larry Newman SA #1956


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By redbeard on 11/04/2008 6:58 AM
... I am interested in the reverser valve, as I am also not pleased with the bulk of the Ruby reverser. You mention earlier in the post " new reversing valve (the Accucraft valve is too bulky) Mamod style" , any chance of a closer look at the valve? redbeard AKA Larry Newman SA #1956

Larry,
I have "stolen" my reverser design from: 
http://www.davewatkins.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/idrispln.htm
Regards


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Very impressive build. Now thats what I call talent. Later RJD


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## allenpollock (Feb 18, 2008)

are you working from some drawings or plans of the actual Betsy ?
if so, are these plans/drawings available for purchase?
thanks
allen


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## Rich Schiffman (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner,

I am interested in the plans you have used for the Betsy. Are these commercially available? I would like to build one but electric of course. 
Thanks for a reply,

Rich S


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Allen, Rich, 
I use the plans from the link in my previous log: 

http://www.gearedsteam.com/other/other_opqr.htm 

The front/rear view are in the book "Thunder in the mountains" listed in this link. 
Regards


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Some more progress. Saddle tank and fake firebox are completed. I should have built a real coal fired boiler, making the fake firebox was almost as much work as a real one...











I milled/turned a skeleton structure for the tank and soft soldered the sheet metal around this support.











Regards


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Latest progress: 
The sand box and live steam plumbing has been added. The plumbing is silver soldered from PM research 1/8" fittings and 5/32" copper tubing. The sand box contains the Goodall type valve and the safety. 










Next step is the exhaust piping and the steam dome. Eric currently makes a beautiful wood cab for me (in exchange for some fittings for his steam tractor). 
Regards


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## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

Here is a photo I took yesterday at the *Bay Area Garden Railway Society* Annual Meeting.











Russ


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## Mark Scrivener (Jan 7, 2008)

Looking good Henner. Did she run any different with the new piping in place? Certainly a big improvement from the flex hose.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Russ, 
thanks for the photo. The BAGRS convention was fun as usual. I liked Richard's clinic about sparkies and steamers. 
Mark, 
The new piping did not make any difference. I was afraid, the copper vs. plastic tubing would cause more condensation, but this did not happen. Nevertheless I am experimenting with some sort of superheater/steam drier. I got 1/8" SS tubing from K&S. Bending was surprisingly easy with a Dubro bender: 

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE228 

The pipe fits into the flue: 










Regards


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: Looks like that tube bender does a good job. Appears there are no kinks.

Bob


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner, 

I have used stainless tubing for steam lines that go directly to the cylinders without first passing through the boiler or smokebox. Compared to copper the stainless has a much lower thermal conductivity. I also lag (insulate) the stainless tubing with cotton string wound around the tubing. Of course silicone tubing alone should have good thermal insulating properties. (So I believe, anyway. Maybe not. Anyone know for sure?) 

Steve


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## dwegmull (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Steve,
I don't have any hard numbers but on my steam turbine experimental locomotive, the throttle is a piece of silicone tubing that I pinch. I can hold it closed for a few seconds with my bare fingers, so it must be quite a good insulator! I don't think I would try touching a bare copper tube carrying steam.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

The pics don't do it justice Henner.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve,
remarkably enough I did not see a big difference in performance when I switched from the plastic tubing to copper. So probably with some lagging I should be OK.

Rick,
thanks for your kind words. It seems, Betsy is more attractive in real life than on photos







.

Eric started building the cab for me. Note the strange combination of metal and wood, as per prototype. I could not resist showing his beautiful work in progress. He did all the wood work, while he subcontracted the metal parts to me. This is our usual mode of operation...
The exhaust pipes including a condensate collecting drum are in. The only sort of functional part missing is the steam dome, the rest is pure cosmetics. 









]


Regards


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Slow but steady progress: Eric is almost done with the cab (including floor), dome and bell are mounted. This finishes up all functional parts, the rest is "superdetailing" (including removal of the ugly ears from the cylinders). I hope, Eric will take some better photos for me to show off all the whistles and bells! And yes, the photo is taken on my "notorious" 10% grade. Betsy has no problems pushing disconnects up the bank. 










Regards


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

I hope we will see this in Sacramento this summer.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Eric and you did an outstanding job on the cab Henner. I can't wait to see the superdetailing.


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Henner, you and Eric both do outstanding work. All of your models I've seen are just amazing! Keep it up.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick, George, 
thanks for the kind words. David, Eric and I combine our different skills, help/learn from each other and have tremendous fun building steam related stuff. 
Dan, 
yes the loco will be in Sacramento this year as part of our donkey setup. Unfortunately due to lack of vacation days I will only be attending Saturday. 
Regards 
Henner


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, 
Great work shop yesterday. I really like the throttle plans you gave me. I looked in the archives and I can't find a description of how your throttle works. Any chance you will included a detailed description in this log? I think a lot of people would really appreciate the elegance of the design.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick, 
the throttle is a very old design. I found it in a book by Henry Greenly page 154 

http://books.google.com/books?id=h09DAAAAIAAJ&dq=henry+greenly+the+model+locomotive&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=XzQ58veAOe&sig=2ydEVn0zLMITPyq8XZRS8aC12jU&hl=en&ei=ykj-ScD-FZq6tgPVjPTNAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1 

I'll ask David if he is willing to extrude my drawing to 3D and post it. 
Regards


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow thats coming along most excellent!


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, 
Great book, they have the whole thing online! Its got everything you need to know about scratch building steam engines and parts


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

It was a beautiful day today, so Betsy and friends did some switching and cliimbing: 










These are the days worth living for! 
Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Still no roof on Betsy!


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

Seriously MUST I DO EVERYTHING?!!!!

I am ready to claim Betsy as my own property!









The roof is actually there, it is just invisible-- like Wonder Woman's jet plane.









Actually I cut the roof planks on Saturday and weathered them. I will install the planks and a canvas roof on our next workshop-- right now Henner has a roof "kit".


Regards,


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Hate to be argumentative, but I'm pretty sure wonder woman was not invisible, but her plane on the other hand was. Can't wait to see it with the roof,,, no matter who it belongs to


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## pcentral (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, 
Betsy looks great! Of course I never expected anything less from you! I hope to see it in person sometime! 

Steve


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve, 
If you are at the NSS in Sacramento,you will see Betsy. Anyway, Eric has finished the roof with canvas cover, I made progress with plumbing, hand rails and steps. Plumbing needs some termination in injectors etc. This is how she currently looks: 










Some details (photos by Eric): 










and 











Thanks to Eric again for the woodwork of the cab. 

Regards


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

What a well-proportioned critter! Are you going to paint it, or let it acquire a nice patina from frequent rub-downs? 

Larry


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Fantastic detail Eric!


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

My compliments to Eric. Very create work. 
Henner, your brass work and copper piping is superb.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Really nice work. That whole dome assembly is gorgeous.

Bob


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Howard, Bob, 
thanks for the kind words. With the 3 of us (Eric, David, Henner) being our own critics we constantly try to improve our skills. 
Larry, 
the loco will eventually be painted/weathered, another job for Eric... 
Regards


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Betsy is finally nearing completion. I hope to have her ready for Sacramento. Grabirons, steps, "running" boards and the huge wooden brake shoes have been added. The eye-catching cinder traps are well under way: 










Some detail photos will follow next week. 
Regards


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Shes got some real charm. I love it. I have a few sets of OEM Ruby cylinders if you want to make another, I'll supply the cylinders...


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Kovacjr on 05 Jul 2009 07:43 PM 
Shes got some real charm. I love it. I have a few sets of OEM Ruby cylinders if you want to make another, I'll supply the cylinders...  
Jason,
I'd rather use one of your oversize cylinders







(Take this as an order). Here are some more detail photos:
The grabirons made from brass rod and flattened in a machine vice:











"Running boards":











The wooden brake shoes:











and last not least the cinder catchers:












Regards


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## jkarns (Jan 5, 2008)

Absolutely superb. One of the most exciting live steam engines I've seen. Having grown up nearby, I've come to love the prototype. You've brought her to life. 
Jesse


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

What a great looking critter! Sure would like to see it "in the brass". 

Larry


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## Chrisp (Jan 3, 2008)

Outstanding model Henner. Will you be running it Sunday? Regards, Chris


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## maculsay (Jan 2, 2008)

Love the wood brakes. It just gets better & better. 

Henner, great work!!!


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## dwegmull (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Chrisp on 17 Jul 2009 01:37 PM 
Outstanding model Henner. Will you be running it Sunday? Regards, Chris 
If he doesn't, he will risk having a riot ;-)


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Wow!


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## Steve Shyvers (Jan 2, 2008)

Ditto. 

Wow.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

All, 
thanks for the kind words! Yes, she will run during my open house tomorrow and yes, she will be painted. This will be done by Eric, who is the absolute expert in painting/weathering. See e.g. his excellent shovel bash: 

http://www.mylargescale.com/Communi...fault.aspx 

Regards


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: Some real artwork going there buddy. That cab is very well done.


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## Russell Miller (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner,
Did you get any photos from Sunday? Send me one or two for the Trellis & Trestle newsletter.
Russ Miller


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Russell Miller on 21 Jul 2009 11:17 AM 
Henner,
Did you get any photos from Sunday? Send me one or two for the Trellis & Trestle newsletter.
Russ Miller
Russ,
unfortunately not. We were too busy... Did anyone else take photos?
Regards


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## Eric M. (Jan 3, 2008)

David took just a few pictures during the day to tweet about the open house. He captured a pic of my Ida wen she wrecked. BTW the pic is best viewed if you rotate it 90 degrees clockwise:


  Click here to see the Ida wreck.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Some more news. Instead of milling off the "ears" from the Ruby cylinders which are not needed for Betsy I decided to machine new ones with 1/2" bore. This should make slow running even better (better volume/surface ratio -> less condensation?), as Dave has shown with his Ruby. A second set will be used for Eric's Ida. I built up the body by silver soldering the cylinder proper to the valve plate. The whole project turned out pretty well. When I close the ports with my fingers and pull, the piston bounces right back. So obviously not too much leakage. Here a photo: 










Regards


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: Those turned out great. How did you do the bores?? Ream or boring bar?

Bob


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bob,
thanks for the kind words. The cylinders are bored and then reamed. I used an adjustable reamer, which gave an almost mirror-like surface. I reamed the other pair for Eric with a chucking reamer, but the surface is not as shiny. Both were done in David's "big" lathe.
Regards


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

They look real nice. Gotta ask, did you keep track of the time?


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner, 
Is it possible to make them on a smaller lathe?


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Jason,
about 10h for 2 pairs. But I spent at least half of the time figuring out how to do things and setting up tools.

Regards


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Rick.
it could be done completely on a Taig/Sherline. The only problem is the reaming. Chucking reamers and even my adjustable reamer have to be held in the tail stock, as they have only a very short taper to start. The smaller lathes are too short/the drill chuck does not open wide enough to chuck 1/2" reamers. If you find a hand reamer with a long taper you don't need the big lathe. 

Regards


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Yepper - Setup is a lot of fun. I have all the jigs made for all the parts still so next months when I make the 2nd run of 1/2" cylinders they will be used. One difference is mine were from solid brass and not soldering up, I was unsure about soldering it up and making a jig to hold it all square. But all the holes and bores are drilled before shaping the cylinders when we did them. Also using a tapmatic saved a lot of time tapping. 

I used a soft collet for the cylinder caps as the rear ones with the steps and recess were done in many steps being there were 52 of each.... 

Rich - Lathe is not the issue largest part is under 1" Dia, you need a mill too though. Only the cylinder caps and the piston are lathe work. The bulk is mill work.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Jason 
I broke down and got the milling attachment for my taig about a month ago


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 26 Dec 2009 06:59 PM 
Bob,
thanks for the kind words. The cylinders are bored and then reamed. I used an adjustable reamer, which gave an almost mirror-like surface. I reamed the other pair for Eric with a chucking reamer, but the surface is not as shiny. Both were done in David's "big" lathe.
Regards


Henner: What speed did you run the lathe at?? I have never had much luck reaming above about 3/8". They chatter a lot. I wonder if I am running too fast. 

Bob


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 26 Dec 2009 08:15 PM 
Jason 
I broke down and got the milling attachment for my taig about a month ago  
Can you post a pic of the Taig attachment? Thanks

Bob


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The new cylinders are mounted; the switch was almost boring - old ones out, new ones in. I used the dimensions on David Hottmans drawings. Thanks for posting! The low speed of Betsy dropped considerably and the torque increased as expected (hoped?). Marcus Schutte (engineer/fireman/shop foreman) inspects the new gear: 










He apologizes for being all white. He fell into the white pine sawdust bin. Marcus is a kind donation from Rick: 

http://poe.o-honua.com/orderform?catalogue

Bob,
David's lathe has electronic speed control and ample torque. I ran the reamer at about 2..3rev/sec. I did not clamp down the tailstock, but slid it in and out by hand trying to keep the stop between pushing/pulling as short as possible. I also used lots of cutting fluid. No chatter at all (lucky me







). 

Regards


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually Henner is being modest, Marcus is more part of a gift for the hours he put in helping me to make the saddles for my domes on Kauila. 
The Cylinders look fantastic!. I am considering making my own pair, but I need to talk to you more about the reaming process.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Bob, 
Go here  Carter Tools Scroll down to the milling attachment. It looks like this.... 








If you buy one let Nick know that I sent you. I don't get any discounts for the referral I just like him to know how much I appreciate his service.


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh,,, if you get that, you will also want to buy the 3/4-16 chuck adapter and the Drill chuck arbor (3/8-24 thread). This way you can use your head stock to mount your drill bit stocks to and you can use the chuck adaptor so you can mount your head stock chuck to the milling table. I find it much simpler to move the the chuck to the milling table than it is to remove the piece from the chuck and clamp it to the milling table.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 27 Dec 2009 12:23 PM 
Bob, 
Go here  Carter Tools Scroll down to the milling attachment. It looks like this.... 

If you buy one let Nick know that I sent you. I don't get any discounts for the referral I just like him to know how much I appreciate his service. 
Looks plenty stout. Would like to hear how it works out. I've always wanted a little attachment like that for the 6"

Thanks


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By HMeinhold on 27 Dec 2009 12:04 PM 
The new cylinders are mounted; the switch was almost boring - old ones out, new ones in. I used the dimensions on David Hottmans drawings. Thanks for posting! The low speed of Betsy dropped considerably and the torque increased as expected (hoped?). Marcus Schutte (engineer/fireman/shop foreman) inspects the new gear: 



He apologizes for being all white. He fell into the white pine sawdust bin. Marcus is a kind donation from Rick: 

http://poe.o-honua.com/orderform?catalogue

Bob,
David's lathe has electronic speed control and ample torque. I ran the reamer at about 2..3rev/sec. I did not clamp down the tailstock, but slid it in and out by hand trying to keep the stop between pushing/pulling as short as possible. I also used lots of cutting fluid. No chatter at all (lucky me







). 

Regards 
That answers it. I've been going too fast. And the tail stock.

Thanks Henner, Bob


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

I've only used it on a few small projects,,, nothing complex.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rkapuaala on 28 Dec 2009 10:28 PM 
I've only used it on a few small projects,,, nothing complex. 



Richard, don't sell youself short. We are Gauge 1 miniature engineers, amateur enthusiasts to the core. Everything we do is done under a microscope with greater precision then Swiss watch makers. "Small projects" yes, they all are, "nothing complex" no, far from it.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

As the mainline guys don't look at this thread anyways







, I dare showing a video of Betsy in her natural habitat:


The new cylinders helped to slow her down and increased power. Previously I could not push the heavy donkey up the hill. Next spring we will make a movie dedicated entirely to "Logging with steam".
Regards


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## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

She looks and runs great Henner!! So when ya gonna paint her? hehehe









Your railroad also looks to have come quite a ways since last I saw it. Lookin' good!


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Henner: Thanks for inviting us over for home movies. What a treat!! She runs like a top.

Thanks again, Bob


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## rkapuaala (Jan 3, 2008)

Sweet video Henner


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