# AUTOMATIC POND FILLER ?



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

What are any of you with ponds using to maintain water levels? 

I have been using a Melnor battery operated programable device for quite some time. However, I need to replace the batteries about three times per year. Each time I do, the unit must be re-programmed. It can be programmed to add water up to six times each day. But the water level does vary between the fill times. I was thinking of installing a simple automatic float valve in it's place. This way the water would be added in smaller increments, keeping it at the same lavel constantly.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have seen the guts used in a toilet to do this, $12 at your local home depot. 

I have an electronic one from leviton, but it's kind of expensive, and all it is is a control unit, and runs from 120v, does not sound right for you. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Do you have fish? Where are you obtaining the water?... Chlorinated city water?

If you have fish and city water, you might want to also automatically add chlorine killer to keep from killing the fish.

When I had a pond, (admittedly a small one in the shape of a "C"...with a hill in the opening of the C, water was pumped from the one end of the C up the mountain to flow down the other side and around the C to keep the water flowing in the whole pond), I only added water once or twice a week. Rain often took care of that task. 

I had plants and fish... a dozen very small gold fish ($0.98 per dozen) that I fed every other day until they were fat enough for the sewer bears (raccoons) to eat. Thus when I added water I had to be sure to immediately add the chlorine killer or the fish would die. A friend of mine fills an old huge aquarium first, then adds the Chlorine killer and dumps that into his pond.


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

we have a new problem here... they stopped using regular chlorine and now use some chlorinated compound that lasts much longer... not sure if the chlorine killers work on the new stuff... 

Regards, Greg


----------



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

No chlorine in my well water. I am fortunate to have water that needs no treatment. The house plants seem to love it. I did think of using a toilet fill valve.


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Toilet fill assembly mounted in the pond in a separate enclosure ( my old toilet tank ) .... I have one installed with a garden hose feed. Works and is really simple. Hide the tank in some way. 


The toilet tank enclosure acts as a baffle for waves and wind as well as a natural hold point for the float assembly. disconnect and remove the flapper. 


gg


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Use the fluidmaster one, and put in a 6" diameter pvc pipe, and have that connect to the pond with a pipe, so it can sense the level and the water will go into the pond... put a cap on the bottom of the pipe, and a removable cover on the top, you can adjust the unit up or down to set the pond level. 

Regards, Greg


----------



## studeclunker (Mar 15, 2009)

You can find at any farm supply or feed store a float valve for stock tanks that will work beautifully with your pond. If it’s in your layout, just put a dock in and mount it underneath.

Yes, the munis are using a bonded Chlorinator in the water. There is a de-Chlorinator available for this. You can generally get it at a good aquarium store. Another source you might consider is Lillypons. They’re an all round supplier for just what you are looking for. Here’s their link: http://www.lilypons.com/


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

At the Chicago Botanic, one brat notices the waterfall looking puny and gets the hose out. For the geyser, the same brat fills up a watering can and pours it down the hole.


----------



## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

another chouse would be a float and valve assembly for a swamp cooler ....



http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop/item/83650/icn/20-250589/dial/4153.htm


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

I do just the opposite, but something similar could also work for you in reverse.

I do not let sprinkler water stand in my lake and breed mosquitos. Also, I have only limited space for a float switch with the two pumps in a very crowded area.

Sooooo,

I took two round fishing "bobbers" and glued them together to make a single bobber that resembles a figure 8. These are sized to just fit inside a piece of PVC pipe standing vertically. A neodymium magnet is glued to the top of the bobber assembly and the whole assembly is free to rise/fall within the PVC. The shape of the two bobbers glued together maintains the magnet at the top. The top of the PVC pipe has two "notches" cut and a piece of hollow, rectangular Plastruct fits within these notches and is held with a friction fit. A magnetic reed switch is housed within the Plastruct and sealed in with Marine Goop. The reed switch trips a relay that turns on a pump to drain the lake each time the sprinklers come on. At the bottom is a PVC cap that fits the pipe. This is attached to a flat piece of aluminum with a couple lead "torpedo" fishing weights that are "cinched around the aluminum. A small hole is drilled in the bottom of the PVC cap and aluminum. This was necessary so that the pipe acts as a "stand pipe" and drains slower than the lake and keeps the pump on for a little extra time after the water drains. Also a capacitor on the relay holds the pump on a little longer. This was necessary because otherwise, when the lake "falls" the pump would instantly shut off and the water in the lines would back-up into the lake causing the lake to rise ensuing in an endless cycle of on-off-on-off, etc.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 03/23/2009 10:27 AM
I do just the opposite, but something similar could also work for you in reverse.

I do not let sprinkler water stand in my lake and breed mosquitos. Also, I have only limited space for a float switch with the two pumps in a very crowded area.

Sooooo,

I took two round fishing "bobbers" and glued them together to make a single bobber that resembles a figure 8. These are sized to just fit inside a piece of PVC pipe standing vertically. A neodymium magnet is glued to the top of the bobber assembly and the whole assembly is free to rise/fall within the PVC. The shape of the two bobbers glued together maintains the magnet at the top. The top of the PVC pipe has two "notches" cut and a piece of hollow, rectangular Plastruct fits within these notches and is held with a friction fit. A magnetic reed switch is housed within the Plastruct and sealed in with Marine Goop. The reed switch trips a relay that turns on a pump to drain the lake each time the sprinklers come on. At the bottom is a PVC cap that fits the pipe. This is attached to a flat piece of aluminum with a couple lead "torpedo" fishing weights that are "cinched around the aluminum. A small hole is drilled in the bottom of the PVC cap and aluminum. This was necessary so that the pipe acts as a "stand pipe" and drains slower than the lake and keeps the pump on for a little extra time after the water drains. Also a capacitor on the relay holds the pump on a little longer. This was necessary because otherwise, when the lake "falls" the pump would instantly shut off and the water in the lines would back-up into the lake causing the lake to rise ensuing in an endless cycle of on-off-on-off, etc.



THAT is a great concept. I love the fact that it is small. Most of the other solutions are so big they're hard to hide.


----------



## jamarti (Jan 2, 2008)

The question in my mind is: Why do you need to add water on a daily basis? Is there a leak?


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

That's cool, Todallin


----------



## GG (Jan 1, 2009)

Posted By jamarti on 03/23/2009 3:54 PM
The question in my mind is: Why do you need to add water on a daily basis? Is there a leak? 

Evaporation is typically the main issue here.


----------



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Not a leak in the way you would think of one. More like what GG said and some absorbtion by the many plants at the perimeter the pond. The ferns in particular must drink water at an amazing rate. Near the water they grow to four and five feet high, and multiply as fast as rabbits. Whereas in the areas farther from the pond, two feet is the norm.


----------



## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7481&cmpid=sc 

How about this?


----------



## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

That is a nice system. Alittle pricey for my pond budget I have seen the float valve part of that system without the filter on Ebay for about fifteen bucks. I was looking at a spare Fluidmaster kit I have and since I like to fiddle with inventing the wheel again, and hate spending money I will give it a try.


----------



## Dean Whipple (Jan 2, 2008)

I have 2 ponds and on both ponds for 7-8 years or so I've used a swamp cooler filler/float available at Home-Depot connected to a water pipe with 1/8" copper tubing...works great...


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pdk on 03/24/2009 11:43 AM
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7481&cmpid=sc 

How about this? 


I've gone through two of the fluid level cutoff valves and have been disappointed with their size (big...hard to hide) and their long term reliability.  Both of them used a variation on the kind of float vavle you find in a toilet.  Simply put, the valve begins to leak after being in use outside for six months or so.  Todallin's approach to making a float switch from bobbers got me doing some invetigation and planning.  I found a float switch on eBay for $5 ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=110367654613http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7481&cmpid=sc " border=0>" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />.  My plan is to do essentially what Todallin did by putting the switch into PVC pipe with small vents located on the top and bottom to allow water into the PVC pipe.  
 
The design looks like this http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/mikereilley/Pool%20-%20pond%20fill%20sensor.jpg .  The one shown is for my swimming pool where I already have a fill pipe running under the decking.  This one Velcro's onto the tile around the pool and will be painted to blend in.  I'll put a plug on the pigtail that comes out of the switch and route control wires from the float switch to a solinoid controlled antisiphone valve through the expansion joints in the decking.  
 
If this works, I'll build a similar one for my GRR pond in which the PVC pipe will be pushed into the bottom of the pond and the inlet hole relocated to be above the mud line.  That switch can be buried in rock so that it's completely hidden...something you can't really do with the regular pond float valves.


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 03/25/2009 10:06 AM
Posted By pdk on 03/24/2009 11:43 AM
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7481&cmpid=sc 

How about this? 


I've gone through two of the fluid level cutoff valves and have been disappointed with their size (big...hard to hide) and their long term reliability. Both of them used a variation on the kind of float vavle you find in a toilet. Simply put, the valve begins to leak after being in use outside for six months or so. Todallin's approach to making a float switch from bobbers got me doing some invetigation and planning. I found a float switch on eBay for $5 ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=110367654613http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7481&cmpid=sc







" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />. My plan is to do essentially what Todallin did by putting the switch into PVC pipe with small vents located on the top and bottom to allow water into the PVC pipe. 

The design looks like this http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/mikereilley/Pool%20-%20pond%20fill%20sensor.jpg . The one shown is for my swimming pool where I already have a fill pipe running under the decking. This one Velcro's onto the tile around the pool and will be painted to blend in. I'll put a plug on the pigtail that comes out of the switch and route control wires from the float switch to a solinoid controlled antisiphone valve through the expansion joints in the decking. 

If this works, I'll build a similar one for my GRR pond in which the PVC pipe will be pushed into the bottom of the pond and the inlet hole relocated to be above the mud line. That switch can be buried in rock so that it's completely hidden...something you can't really do with the regular pond float valves.



Looks good.

A couple suggestions. You must be able to disassemble the PVC pipe to clean the insides on occasion (looks like you've got that covered). Even though my pump is rated at much less current than the relay can switch, I found that the inductive load of the motor would burn out the relay contacts in short order arcing them together. Put one of these in series between the relay and motor (I actually use two, one into and one out of the relay contacts and have never burned out another).










http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G14789


BTW, I also use these between the power supply and tracks at my train stop/wait areas (leap frog, service areas, etc.) to avoid the current surge when the relay lets the trains run.


----------



## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 03/25/2009 10:24 AM
Posted By Mike Reilley on 03/25/2009 10:06 AM
Posted By pdk on 03/24/2009 11:43 AM
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7481&cmpid=sc 

How about this? 


I've gone through two of the fluid level cutoff valves and have been disappointed with their size (big...hard to hide) and their long term reliability. Both of them used a variation on the kind of float vavle you find in a toilet. Simply put, the valve begins to leak after being in use outside for six months or so. Todallin's approach to making a float switch from bobbers got me doing some invetigation and planning. I found a float switch on eBay for $5 ( http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=110367654613http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7481&cmpid=sc







" src="http://www.mylargescale.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/wink.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" />. My plan is to do essentially what Todallin did by putting the switch into PVC pipe with small vents located on the top and bottom to allow water into the PVC pipe. 

The design looks like this http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/mikereilley/Pool%20-%20pond%20fill%20sensor.jpg . The one shown is for my swimming pool where I already have a fill pipe running under the decking. This one Velcro's onto the tile around the pool and will be painted to blend in. I'll put a plug on the pigtail that comes out of the switch and route control wires from the float switch to a solinoid controlled antisiphone valve through the expansion joints in the decking. 

If this works, I'll build a similar one for my GRR pond in which the PVC pipe will be pushed into the bottom of the pond and the inlet hole relocated to be above the mud line. That switch can be buried in rock so that it's completely hidden...something you can't really do with the regular pond float valves.



Looks good.

A couple suggestions. You must be able to disassemble the PVC pipe to clean the insides on occasion (looks like you've got that covered). Even though my pump is rated at much less current than the relay can switch, I found that the inductive load of the motor would burn out the relay contacts in short order arcing them together. Put one of these in series between the relay and motor (I actually use two, one into and one out of the relay contacts and have never burned out another).

Regarding the PVC pipe...it's actually a nipple with threaded couplings on each end so that I can take it apart and get the bugs and slime out that accumulate over time.










http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G14789


BTW, I also use these between the power supply and tracks at my train stop/wait areas (leap frog, service areas, etc.) to avoid the current surge when the relay lets the trains run.



Thanks. Good tip. The switch controls a 12v solinoid, not a motor. It's just a sprinkler vavle with a solinoid on top. I had thought about arcing, and was pondering on whether I needed to install a solid state switching device in the line so that float switch just rebiases a trasnsistor into on or off mode. That way, there's no power running through the float switch at all.


----------



## cmjdisanto (Jan 6, 2008)

Dan,

We have an in-ground irrigation system and added a zone for just the pond last year. Since the pond is run year round... during he winter, this is the first year I didn't have to drag a hose out every couple days to maintain the level. The timer is set for one minute 3 times a week and uses a 1" black flex hose that leads to PVC pipe that is over the pond. We've had a couple creative thoughts on how to dress up the pipe and seem to be focused on finding an old well pump, one that is close to 3-4ft tall. We'd rig it so that it'd just come out the trough of the pump. So far no luck in finding a reasonably priced, non-functioning pump. 


Anyhow, it wasn't like we needed to do any calculations to figure out the length of time to fill, we just use the height flexibility of using a skimmer basket that houses the pump also. Aqua-Scapes is the brand. They do make a float system for the skimmer we use but this was the easiest way to go.


----------



## barnmichael (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 03/23/2009 11:32 AM

I love the fact that it is small. Most of the other solutions are so big they're hard to hide. 




Then you need a bigger pond!


----------



## bryanj (Jan 2, 2008)

Can you show a picture of this Todd ?


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By bryanj on 03/27/2009 11:03 PM
Can you show a picture of this Todd ?


Ask and ye shall receive.

As I noted, this is to drain my lake twice daily when the sprinklers come on, and during/after rain events. I made the lake so that the two pumps and underwater light sit a little lower than the regular bottom of the lake. This ensures that there is alway a little water around the pump so it doesn't burn out. A small piece of chlorine tablet keeps any growth out, but does have long term effects on the aluminum base (as you will see).

As I said, space is very limited. You can see the switch nestled behind the pump. The whole area is covered with a flat rock so none of this shows. BTW, use caution in siting your reed switch relative to your pump. When the motor comes on, it creates a magnetic field, and if not properly placed, I've had the motor's field hold the reed switch closed so that the pump stays on even after the float has dropped.

















This shows the housing and arrangement of the floats and magnet. The button-head screw is stainless and I can adjust the water level using the nylon nut to raise/lower the pvc relative to the base. The screw actually goes through a piece of round Plastruct that has been cemented to the side of the pvc pipe. You can see how the torpedo weights clamp around the aluminum base.









Top view looking into the pipe.









And from the bottom.









The reed switch is housed in a piece of rectangular Plastruct and the notches at the top of the pvc are sized for a good friction fit.









All cleaned out and ready for another year of service.


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By toddalin on 03/28/2009 12:57 PM
Posted By bryanj on 03/27/2009 11:03 PM
Can you show a picture of this Todd ?


Ask and ye shall receive.



This shows the housing and arrangement of the floats and magnet. The button-head screw is stainless and I can adjust the water level using the nylon nut to raise/lower the pvc relative to the base. The screw actually goes through a piece of round Plastruct that has been cemented to the side of the pvc pipe. You can see how the torpedo weights clamp around the aluminum base.









Top view looking into the pipe.









And from the bottom.














Looks like a nice simple design. 

BUT... your photos really have my mind reeling! I think I understand the mechanics of the device, but how do you get them to "levitate" over the background in the photos????? What is that background? My mind cannot get the images to make sense other than the housing and the double bobbers are floating in mid air! 

HALP!


----------



## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

WAIT ! I see it now... that is the glass top to a patio table!


----------



## toddalin (Jan 4, 2008)

Posted By Semper Vaporo on 03/28/2009 1:12 PM
Posted By toddalin on 03/28/2009 12:57 PM
Posted By bryanj on 03/27/2009 11:03 PM
Can you show a picture of this Todd ?




BUT... your photos really have my mind reeling! I think I understand the mechanics of the device, but how do you get them to "levitate" over the background in the photos????? What is that background? My mind cannot get the images to make sense other than the housing and the double bobbers are floating in mid air! 

HALP!











Pics are taken on a glass patio table.


----------



## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

null


----------

