# What Aristo Product would you put back into Production?



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

It is fairly safe to assume that of all those Aristo molds sitting in China some will be put to use someday. So, I you were say, someone in management at Bachmann, who more than likely have control of those molds, What would you put into production from Aristos history? Keep in mind you are in this to make money, not fill a gap in someone's collection posting on MLS, yet you probably know what you would buy multiple units of if they were to come back onto the market. Bachmann may produce these under thier own lable, so quality could be a factor and the item/s should not need a major rework but perhaps some small tweeks. Which begs the question, use Aristo name or Bachmann? Your thoughts?


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I'd fix the new 2-8-0 so it will run on their track.
That's the missing work horse of middle steam...
Probably would have saved Aristo, instead was one of the final nails....


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder if diesels are cheaper to make, less parts? Could be that.


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

I would think it would be wiser to do rolling stock first, that is to say if Aristo was to be brought back some how. Also, run the popular cars that sold well first, then expand to others. A good choice might be 2 bay open hoppers and do more and different roadnumbers too. Then gondolas, flatcars with doing boxcars last. Most everyone does boxcars. But one thing that would need to be done is to get rid of that ugly notched brake wheel and replace it with a round one !!! But I think if scott rebuilds, we'll see the stuff already made sitting on a dock in China first that was never paid for. Only time will tell. I personally am waiting to see what AML will be releasing next 

Rocky


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Jerry, Not sure about Steam vs Diesel production costs, I would guess it depends on the level of detail and quality, especially when it comes to the Steam running gear. From my perspective Aristo's quality had wide product swings. Thier detail level did seam to improve over time.


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Wrecker, I stayed away from the 2-8-0 because of the problems and lack of SP/Vandy tender. It was odd how Aristo somewhat abandoned SP in the latter years. No Mallet, Mikado, Pacific yet they were making Vandy tenders? Did they think that because it was a fallen road name we wouldn't buy it anymore?


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Rocky, I'm with you on the 2 Bay Coal Hoppers, and again No Espee was made. The gondolas would be another good choice. I think Bachmann is doing the same thing, watching AML/Accucraft! I don't think the Evan's 53 would do well if AML announces an outside braced 50 ft Box as rumored.


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

If I were in charge, it would be the ones that sold the best.

Which ones, I don't know, but Mike Kidman or Robbie could clue us in on that.

For me, I hope the 2 bay hoppers get back into production soon. I also hope the E8 diesels are brought back.

But the big factor is still money. Where is Scott going to get the capital from that Lewis was unable to get in order to keep the company in the black?

What does an order of say 500 E8 diesels cost Aristo Craft just to place an order? $50,000.00? Even if the minimum order is only 250, you're still looking at $25,000.00 I wager to guess.


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Randy, I don't think Aristo is coming back! All the model molds are in Bachmann's China factory and Aristo BK'ed, so I'm sure they owe Bachmann some Yen. Which put's them in the drivers seat. Alco this is in China where intelectual property rights and who owns what is always open to interpetaion. What doesn't change is that possession is 9/10 of the law, and Bachmann has the molds and everything else Aristo used to make trains! E8 would be another good choice but them may hold that until they can make the B unit also.


----------



## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The Mikado with a better motor block. Mine died several years ago.

Chuck


----------



## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I third the 2 bay hoppers, very nice product, mounts Kadees easily.

If you wish for a loco, they need to adopt the "D cut" wheels and improve the plating. It's too bad that this was already in the works on the diesels.

Really needed on the steamers.

Greg


----------



## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

The Dash-9's, 2 bay covered hoppers, and offset hoppers all went well.


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Dash 9 huh? I think the E8s would have done much better if they had the B unit to pair up. The 2 bay covered hoppers must have been a really good money maker for Aristo Craft considering how long ago it came out. I like the RI version I have even though I'm pro-coal hopper.


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Well it won't happen.....?????
But I collected both dash-9's and SD45's...
E-8 b's would make life easier.....ha
Enjoyed the Evans 53', 40ft double door, and insulated plug doors.
What is missed a lot are 100ton hoppers..
and their trucks...
Then there never seem to be enough Heavy Weights around....

Alas,... we are here now...A/C is gone.

Any one got a HW Baggage, preferably in UP colors...looking fer one..??

Dirk


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

The SD45 diesel is a classic..I see more internet and magazine photos of that Aristo loco than any other..Seems it was very popular in the past, and probably would be again.

Scot


----------



## Paul Burch (Jan 2, 2008)

Rollerbearing trucks with metal wheels. Have you noticed how much they are getting on Ebay? And more "D" wheel sets for the rollerbearing trucks that came on the cars with plastic wheels.


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Esppe Pete said:


> Wrecker, I stayed away from the 2-8-0 because of the problems and lack of SP/Vandy tender. It was odd how Aristo somewhat abandoned SP in the latter years. No Mallet, Mikado, Pacific yet they were making Vandy tenders? Did they think that because it was a fallen road name we wouldn't buy it anymore?



Espe,
The vandy's were probably for GN/NP locos SP wasn't the only buyer.

I stopped caring when they closed out the Classics several years prior...

John


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Wrecker, Yea I know Aristo made Vandy Tenders, it was just odd that they didn't make them in Southern Pacific, who used them almost exclusively due to all the oil near thier lines from CA, Texas and the Gulf area. Guess in retrospect, you can say they made alot of mistakes. At least AML is making SP vandys!


----------



## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Who needs retrospect? 
Louis came from a time and place where a handshake meant something.
The Chinese are not our friends. Reverse Quality Control ... that and it was a plot to deny you SP stuff! 

Have a great day

John


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

These companies knew who they were getting into bed with but cheap prices were too much to resist. China promised them everything they asked for then took control of the molds, guaranteeing them a captive customer. I've heard Africa as being the next China, but there is no collaboration of African countries to come up with the capital to build and train an engineering and manufacturing base. Along with stealing western tech knowledge for years, China subsidized private companies to get where they are today.


----------



## formulabruce (Jul 23, 2013)

When doing a Marketing Demographic on model train sales, it is prudent to look at the Original prototype sales, and then look into if any prototypes still exist in any condition. People will model more of what they see, or have seen, or there are many pictures of.
So lets look at some facts in the G scale world.
Basic needs.
1. Large scale modelers, due to the initial costs, are Not nearly as likely to Kit bash engines as small scale modelers, and many do not feel the need to get very accurate as their "layouts" are not prototypical either, and are outdoors.
2. If they spend alot ( over 350) they would like it made pretty close to correct.
3. The buyers expect some reliability, OR a bolt on upgrade kit to "fix" Locos doing many scale miles of pulling, or for those large scale trains in revenue service ( there are plenty)
Motive Power.
Looking at prototypical history we find that:
1. At one time, there was 10,000 Mikado's on duty in North America. 
2. 6,800 Pacific's were built and in operation.
3. There were 36 North American Railroads that owned and operated a total of 1,126 "Northern" type locomotives.
4. In North America 41 railroads bought or built 2,204 "Mountain" Locomotives.
5. Well known Railroads with smaller number of some well known/ seen Engines are also a great market ( aka. Big Boys)
6. The Popular E units were the E6A at 91 A units and 26 "B" units.
E7A at 428 A units and 82 "B" units.
E8A at 450 A Units and 46 "B" units.
E9A at 100 A Units and 44 "B" units.
E units that hauled names trains will sell well, and there are "MANY" not yet done. The E 7 would be worth the time and $ to modify existing drawings and produce, while the E6 would be a toss up as to how it would sell and would need more extensive work to make.
7. The F units. There are many yet unmade, from F2's through F9's and that prototype market and recognition is huge, Also the kids show "Chuggington" has a F unit named "Wilson" that probably would sell like hotcakes, yes to adults








8. The Geeps and SD's.. Vast far and wide sales and lives in secondary railroads as well, Many choices, most just involving a different ink stamp.
Conclusion, people will buy/model what they know, have seen or researched, or just plain like. There are many possible "markets" yet untapped. Some large scale manufactures rely on "pre sales", while its pretty obvious by the price of some used Aristo models that there is strong Demand for some.


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

Most numerous steam locomotive wheel arrangement of all time is the 2-8-0 Consolidation. an estimated 35,000 were built world-wide. (Second is the 4-4-0 at an estimated 25,000.)

Scot


----------



## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

Found 2 - 100ton hoppers in Tucson today..
They were in my car when I got home??? Weird..

Dirk. ;-)


----------



## Scottychaos (Jan 2, 2008)

formulabruce said:


> When doing a Marketing Demographic on model train sales, it is prudent to look at the Original prototype sales, and then look into if any prototypes still exist in any condition. People will model more of what they see, or have seen, or there are many pictures of.


Thats true..but there is also an opposing phenomenon..People also like to model the rare and usual locomotives..*because* they are rare and unusual! Some popular locomotives in model railroading (all scales) :

Baldwin Shark - virtually no one saw a real one, yet very popular as a model.
(Baldwin diesels in general are popular models..I think its the "underdog" thing going on..Alco centuries are also popular, for the same reason.)

PRR GG1 - very limited prototype range, only one railroad, but very popular model.

Union Pacific Big Boy - very few built, only owned by one railroad, limited range, but very popular model.

Sure, the well-known, numerous, and successful prototype locomotives are good sellers as models..but so are the rare and unusual..

Scot


----------



## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I was just thinking something similar to Scot's post.

For myself, I like the more visually-interesting models, such as the articulated steam and side rod-electric locomotives of close to 100 years ago - obviously unseen by me and not native to any place I've lived. I've always seen short-wheelbase European models as aesthetically better on model railway radius (even more so in large scale.)

The popularity of a Big Boy, as a model, must exceed that of an Allegany by hundreds if not thousands of times, yet there is hardly anything in the prototype history to explain that. Not sure why, or if this is even true, but there seems to be a mythology of the American west which influences the model popularity contest (Big Boy, cab-forward, Colorado narrow gauge ...)

I don't favor streamlined steam, yet there are a lot out there, so they must sell. Covering up the working bits would appear to detract from the mechanical intricacy of a steamer.

I expect it to be true that revolutionary or ground-breaking prototypes will be more popular than their direct competitors of the era.


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Intresting conversation, and perhaps the basis of frustration for all of us when we can't understand why a G scale Mfg is making something we have no desire for. For me the USAt dockside and the Piko Camelback both fall into that category. while I know others seam to love them! Different strokes!


----------



## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree with you Pete. I learned along time ago that in business, you don't sell what you like, you sell what the customers will buy. The docksiders and camelbacks are great little locomotives and I welcome them to the line, but to me they have a very small group of buyers. To me, Piko took their existing 0-6-0 and easily turned it into the camel back. I think they would have done better to make a slope back tender. But, except for the Aristo steam engines now out of production, what steam engines have not been produced? Yes there are variations of everything, but is there really a market for another Pacific or Mikado? I'd like to see plastic versions of the Hudson and Big Boy in 1:29th brought out, but even if the street price is at or below a grand, is there enough buyers out here to make it profitable for the manufacturer? If the economy ever truly rebounds and G gets a influx of new followers, bringing back some of these engines will be profitable. Till then, I think we'll see more small inexpensive releases.


----------



## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

I would put the SD-45 and F A and B units back in production 

JJ


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

When it comes to Steam Randy I contend that the 4-8-4 is the missing link. I would call it a medium large size loco. On the smaller side I thinl AML/Accucraft has a hit with the 0-6-0 in brass. I have been waiting for the Electric/Vandy tender combo in 1/29 and it looks like it will finally happen (they have tenders on thier online store). I bought a UP with the box tender because it was such a great deal @ $750 I could pass on a brass loco for that price and may just sell the box tender and buy the vandy for it. I tend to think that the Brass and Diecast (USAt) locos are worth the investment as usually you are only buying one of each model. Plastic steamers are great for kitbashing and weathering (It's hard to spray paint a brass loco!) so I think there's a good market there. The Aristo Mallet looks great with heavy weathering and I think Bachmann should re run it for the value in a big steam loco. As far as I know it ran fairly well, they just didn't make alot of them.


----------



## Ted Doskaris (Oct 7, 2008)

John J said:


> I would put the SD-45 and F A and B units back in production
> 
> JJ



If the FA / FB units were to be put back into production, I would like to see the A unit updated to have the front number boards (in place of the vestigial side ones). In his regard, some later prototype versions of the FA1's were made like the FA2's. For example, Union Pacific, Rock Island. and Missouri Pacific RRs had those versions.

-Ted


----------



## GN_Rocky (Jan 6, 2008)

*I'm sorry, a locomotive with like a human face on it just doesn't look real. Perhaps you could convince Fischer Price to make it for kids  Thomas is bad enough, but has it's place I guess.*

* Folks, we must realize that Scott is about starting from the ground floor trying to work up. Funds need to be restocked in order to make more costly models. I've talked to some friends who deal in G scale sales and we all agree that rolling stock is cheaper to make than locos and sells well too. This will be what we see first before locos are re-run. Also before anything new is made, Scott will have to pay for and accept what ever has already been made that is done and sitting on the dock at the factory before they will make any more new or re-run items. And another thing you folks will have to accept is that things will be costing more, no more $30 or $40 online freight cars. Sad, but if you want to see Aristo/ Next Gen. grow, they will have to turn a profit in order to re-invest in more things being made. Perhaps we MIGHT see the SW-1 if it was being made about the time of Aristo's collapse, maybe the ore cars as well. But either way, it'll be awhile until things get back to the way they used to be if ever. Folks will need to support Scott's new venture by buying things and not complain about prices. This is 2014, not 1996 and costs have gone up due to inflation and a bad economy. I will buy IF things fit into my time era and roads I model. But I will NOT buy things I don't need like Revo or SS track. BTW, I got some SS straight track to sell that I got for display shelves if anyone is looking. So that's it in a nutshell, the way it'll be until Next Gen. is strong and has money to spend. That track that came in was stock that was made some time before Aristo went under as was the 0-4-0s that appeared just before the end of last year too. It'll be interesting to see what else was made and has been sitting on the dock.*

*Rocky*


----------



## Esppe Pete (Jan 21, 2008)

Rocky, Do you or Scott, have any Idea who has control of Aristo's old molds. My Guess is Bachmann but I would imagine Aristo's creditors would have to liquidate them or the rights to use them. Is Scott's venture totally seperat from Aristo or does he still have some vesting in the line?


----------

