# 3rd Gen 4-6-0 problems



## Tails (Nov 9, 2010)

I am guess here at least, I don't really have to go into detail about whats happening.....

Typical Big Hauler problem. The gear is spinning on the axle, all the other problems with the drive train have been fixed except this one. I tried drilling a hole through the gear and axle, and tying it off with a metal wire, something happened causing the locomotive to stop functioning after about 5 minutes.

So, I have a big hauler with a hole drilled through the axle and gear, now what? Tying it off with wire seems to have failed....again, so what should I try next? Epoxy a metal pin in there? Tie off again and hope it works?


I already completely destroyed a Bachmann 2-4-2, the gear is sprayed all over the inside of the drive unit, its dead, so I really need to fix this 4-6-0 so I have a second locomotive to take to shows. Plus I have spent a lot of time getting into details with the engine, just about ready to fit a new cab to more closely match my prototype, RGS 20

Thanks in advance for any help 



On another note, I also have a 2-8-0 from Bachmann, does anyone know where I can get a 1:20th scale cross compound compressor, or at least something close


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## W3NZL (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds like U need to get in touch with Barry Olsen at BBT and get one of his drives for Ur B-man...
Paul R...


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Could use a little more info as to what happened when the train stopped. Gear still slipping,short or what? As mentioned you could by a new system from Barry but its not cheap but a good fix if you tend to keep this loco. Later RJD


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## jebouck (Jan 2, 2008)

You say you've detailed this loco, so I would say you want to keep it.
I have put Barry's motors and gears in most of my Bach locos. (Except the Annies--Bach might have got that one right.)
You will need one for the 2-8-0 sooner or later, anyway.


http://www.barrysbigtrains.com/


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Tails, 

I would have thought you could just replace the motor and gears as a unit. It is only held in place with the axle bearings (pop off the bottom cover) and a rod through the top of the gearbox (pry the sides apart.) 

Doesn't anyone have a spare/scrap 4-6-0 chassis with a motor that they can offer?


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Tails, 

How about a new 3rd Gen. Axle with a new (unused) gear. You have to do the quartering. 

Barry - BBT


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

What do you mean "something happened causing the locomotive to stop functioning after about 5 minutes." What exactly would you speculate that might have been? Did your wire tie through the axle hole idea fail? Or did the motor crap out? If you're motor's still spinning and you fixed the other classic 3rd Gen gearing and motor mount problems like these: http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html#gears 
and you want to save an engine you have have detailed as cheaply as possible then I would follow Barry's post above and replace the axle and gear from Bachmann or an aftermarket manufacturer. 
I have a 3rd gen hauler and glued the engine down tight to the frame with construction adhesive so the worm gear, [hopefully], can't wobble around on the drive gears and lubed it up good with plastic compatible grease and despite its notorious reputation it seems to be doing fine this past year and I just took it apart yesterday to check it and wipe the old lube off and re-lube it and even though it's the NOISEIEST engine on my layout [reminds me of my Braun coffee grinder] it seems to be running fine and pulls a small train of cars acceptably well. It will not pull a long train without slipping and effort and I suspect driveline wear so...it is what it is. A toy. Since it was given to me free and you can buy whole 3rd gen engines [sometimes brand new or almost so], on eBay cheap for parts I figure when it screws up I'll buy another Hauler and just swap bottom ends or something. about like a BIC lighter. You don't fix it, you pitch it.


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## Tails (Nov 9, 2010)

Let me refine what happened.

I tested it today, and unloaded, no tender, it seem to run (right up until my power pack finally gave out). When it failed, the motor stopped spinning, everything seemed to bind up. I checked the wire fix later that night, and it is intact and holding.

The motor however, is still fine, it worked ok today and the engine ran for about 10 feet before my powerpack made a loud pop (not the powerpack I used when the engine failed) and everything went down. Its also making an horrible grinding noise now....which makes me wonder if one of the other gear's bit the dust. It sounds like a wood chipper, but I don't see any evidence of destroyed gears.


I am up to trying another unused axle, can't hurt, but I am out of spare locomotives to tear apart. All I have left in the Junk pile are two R/C Big Haulers, but the drive train is completely different. So far to get one locomotive to work, its taken parts from 3 to keep it going....talk about cannibalizing.....its almost as bad as the real RGS 20 and her Campbell soup can bearings..


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## work4fil (Jan 4, 2008)

Tails, 

I have not quite experienced what you have described with my Annie and Connie, but I anticipate it happening at some point down the road. If I have learned anything here on this site, it is that these people are quality individuals. That being said, Barry willl get my business down the road. The man knows his stuff and truly is here to help us first. It is people like Barry and the other first class people here, that bring joy and happiness to playing with trains. 

Fil


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## BarrysBigTrains (Sep 4, 2008)

Tails, 

If you have a true third gen drive, I can replace the axle and gear for you, they are usually more reliable than your experience. The idler should be good, check the cluster gear, if it is still good, the proper repair for a third gen is called "strapping the motor". The motor is mostly held in place with hot glue (when it runs the motor gets warm and the hot glue loses it's grip). I can send you a write up on how to strap this motor in place and send you the axle gear, but as I said above "the quartering is up to you". 

Let me know how I can help. 

Barry - BBT


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## Tails (Nov 9, 2010)

Well, this story has a curious twist now. The engine now runs fine. No problems, no grinding noise, backwards and forwards, no problems.

My friend is looking at modifying an old 4th Gen Drive unit to fit in my engine, using parts of a scrapped 3 gen to make the changes to the 3rd gen drive area.


My motor is held in place with a new coat of hot glue, one of the many things that broke during the last show.

But it seems ok now. I'll keep you in Mind Barry, I know eventually it will break again....


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## SRW (Jan 13, 2010)

That sounds interesting. I have not seen the insides of a 4th Gen, I only have a 3rd and 5th. Looking at George Schreyer's excellent Big Hauler tips website: 
http://www.girr.org/girr/tips/tips1/big_hauler_tips.html#gears 
The photo there shows, and explains, how the gearing is different from the 3rd. Does it use a different brass gear on the motor axle too? Let us know how that works out! 

Like Barry said and you can see it on the girr link the best way to re-inforce the motor is by strapping. I tried to get zip ties around my motor and the weight since the hot glue was visibly letting go but I couldn't quite thread them in right around the motor. Since it was running okay otherwise and the motor seemed seated correctly and had practically zero hours of use and I had a tube of construction adhesive [PL 9000 or something like that], open from a basement project I just squeezed some of that on a scrap board and took a thin strip of wood and re-inforced the hot glue that was still there, taking care not to cover any vent holes on the motor. It set up hard as a rock. I figured if the gearing went but the motor was still okay I could pick up an eBay Hauler and swap the gears from it. If the motor took a dump I would have to dremel it out anyway and I worried by adding more hot glue that it would still be susceptible to heating up and melting. 

I also decided not to increase the weight for better traction as it looked like a recipe for a hasty gearbox demise and am happy with the short train it pulls before spinning the drivers. If you want your 4-6-0 to be a mighty workhorse of an engine then Barry's Big Trains mod looks to be the best route from what I've read and heard. 
Good Luck! Keep us posted how the 3-4 Gen hybrid works for you.


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