# Plastic Rail



## Matt Z (Dec 2, 2009)

Hey everyone, 

I saw a few weeks ago someone had made mention in a topic about a company making plastic rail. I have searched and searched and can not find this thread. So if anyone knows the name/website could you please pass it on! Thanks a ton. 

Matt


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Axle from train li is now selling the nylon track. I just bought a 1000 ft of it to use for different projects and it only cost me with my MLS discount under a 100.00 for a 1000 ft thats a bargin. he's also selling the new ties he had made as well in different colors but the nice thing is the look like concrete ties. i will post pictures soon... the rail come in bulk packs of a 100 and are 5ft long for 50.00


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

Try Train Li USA , see link.
Steve


http://www.train-li-usa.com/store/prorail-display-p-1082.html


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## Matt Z (Dec 2, 2009)

Alright! That's the stuff! Thanks a lot guys. 

Matt


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 30 Dec 2009 04:25 PM 
Axle from train li is now selling the nylon track. I just bought a 1000 ft of it to use for different projects and it only cost me with my MLS discount under a 100.00 for a 1000 ft thats a bargin. he's also selling the new ties he had made as well in different colors but the nice thing is the look like concrete ties. i will post pictures soon... the rail come in bulk packs of a 100 and are 5ft long for 50.00









Uh Oh! Sounds like Nicky is coming over to the dark side RC and Battery!! Thought you were a dyed in the wool track powered guy! You gonna go both ways???????????? Hee Hee LOL Regal Now that you have bought plastic rail you'll have to buy the plastic ties too!! You goin creosote black/brown white or concrete grey?????????


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## wildbill001 (Feb 28, 2008)

Ok, I gotta ask: What code is it or is it close to?  Anybody know?


Wildbill


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## CLRRNG (Sep 26, 2008)

Wow I never heard of plastic/nylon rail. Will be ineresting to see how it holds up for outdoor use. 

Glen


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## altterrain (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By wildbill001 on 30 Dec 2009 07:00 PM 
Ok, I gotta ask: What code is it or is it close to? Anybody know?


Wildbill 



All of Axel's other track is code 332. I imagine this would be the same.

-Brian


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## JPCaputo (Jul 26, 2009)

Sounds like a candidate to try some conductive paint or coating (hopefully much less expensive than solid track). Has anyone tried this technique to run track power? 

JP


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

It is code 332 and check out the built in clamps to the ties. Also they are made out of the same thing as your out door garbage cans are made of so they will last and be very durable. and no Jerry im not going battery anytime soon , i cant afford a complete install of around 1300.00 per loco with sound,labor and all the other good things..out of my price range with 75 plus locos.... i'l stick with the cheaper solution and stay with track power and sound


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

$1300.00???? If you go QSI/g-wire even with the new pricing its only $260 per loco???????? How you gonna run lektricity with nylon rail????? Curious minds want to know???? Oh and two batteries for less than $50! and a one time investment in a throttle $180+ Regal


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## Matt Z (Dec 2, 2009)

You could always make up a handful of battery cars...box cars, tank cars, gons, you name it! That would cut the cost down immensely! 

Matt


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The plastic rail was made for storage yards and display purposes, not for track power and the rails are code 332. 

No rail bender needed!! 

The ties come in different colors and are American style. 

Concrete grey 
Black like creosote 
Brown for wood 
White (I called this Xmas ties for stationary display of Xmas trains.)


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Very interesting


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 31 Dec 2009 05:09 AM 
The plastic rail was made for storage yards and display purposes, not for track power and the rails are code 332. 

No rail bender needed!! 

The ties come in different colors and are American style. 

Concrete grey 
Black like creosote 
Brown for wood 
White (I called this Xmas ties for stationary display of Xmas trains.) 

Obviously you don't know OUR Nicky!! Hee Hee He will try anything!!, just wanted to clarify the $1300 thingy!! Wanted people to know you can do QSI/g-wire on each engine for about $265 now after your $180-200+ throttle depending on what you purchase the Procab or the t-9000. I run two battery cars I hook up behind two train setups. If you have a boxcar with a sliding door or a gondola you can do a battery car like mine for approx. $90 and $35 of that is if you do want this certain charging module or not!!. Works great for me!! My opinion for what its worth is the best system out there. I like the MTH system too, but only have the Triplex to run on that system but it is heads and shoulders above the QSI as far as what it will do comparing both!! Regal


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

I might give some of this a try on my portable steam layout. A section or 2. The profile looks like it would hand lay fine. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Bob


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Jerry, the rail was bought for my 25 car modern ribbon train im putting together, but after i received it i was impressed so i bought more to use in the back of my storage barn when built. when i received the ties i talked to Axel and he told me they were built to use with his line of track as well so they are very well disigned and built. Im going to do a test at the next show and see how well the plastic track will hold up. My freind just received his Shay back from a well known battery installer and wants to try it out so i will let him run his 1300.00 battery conversion on my track to see how well the track does.......







I was looking over his Shay last night and everything was installed nicely on board but again 1300.00 to Rich for my blood...


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

See what happens when you involve a professional installer an additinal $800. With QSI/G-wire on an Aristo engine install is less than a 1/2 hour easy peasey!! No muss no fuss, and you know how proficient I am around lektricity, and fire, and heat!! Hee Hee! Other than the K-27 that Noel wired in the adapter board and the chuff set up for me I have done 6 installs myself (thank you Noel) He's the wiring guru! That system for me anyway is the best bang for yer buck out there, and the results are outstanding, and its easy and simple for a non-techno guy like myself!! 












Happy New Year everyone!!


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

Being a garbage man all my life, I do know a lot about plastic cans, saw 2 factories where they were made(North Carolina) our cans(Chicago suburb) are out all year long and let me tell you, take a beating, our company has over 100,000 of these out, so thats why I am interested to see what they are made of, if there is nylon in it, I dont know for outside, I want to know what material they are made of. And if they can be bent around corners and do they hold corners instead of snapping back. I have e-mailed Axle with these questions, love to hear his answers, it could hopefully bring rail prices down.

Tom H


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Tom the ties are made out of the same stuff as garbage cans thats wye Axel had them made out of that So they would be great outside, As far as tha track im not 100% sure. someone else here had mentioned Nylon thats what i heard. Maybe Axel will see this post and comment or just drop him a email......


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone know how durable these rails are...or their heat expansion properties....when installed outside? Will they handle being stepped on? What about when their cold?...or hot? How big a gap do you need to leave between them to handle heat expansion? Do those clips I see on the ties require that the rails be butted together?


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

You guys need to email Axel or maybe he will come on and answer personally!!!! Like anything new people have to buy put out and wait and see!! I have been at fault for always or pretty much buying something when NEW and paying a higher price, than if I would have waited.. I will take the wait and see approach on this one. Would work good for me being battery and R\C capable on my outdoor layout, so I'm interested in the "wait and see approach here". Regal


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

For $1.50 FT I may sell all my brass track and go battery!
Wonder how this matches up with switches.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Realize that this plastic track is probably not up to constant use, like on main lines. 

It should match up fine with code 332 switches. 

Regards, Greg


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## Paulus (May 31, 2008)

Does somebody know if these are sold in Europe somewhere also...?


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

This could be good for the main stumbling block many have on this hobby-the price of track. I do easy battery operated with just an on/off switch and no remote control/sound. So it costs you about $30 for a battery/charger/switch, $100 for track and $100 for a small engine and you are ready to go! Cheap enuf to replace if someone steps on a piece.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Hmmmm Mental file; Carbarn. 

Was thinking that the Stainless I run is too pretty to stick inside a closed structure, not to mention the expense. Was thinking of Roto zipping flangeways in wood, might go plastic now... it's all straight track. 

For RR use I'd shy away from it, having converted to metal wheels it would get chewed up rather quickly and the clickety clack sound would have to be added to the sound cards! 

John


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Jerry beat me to punch with his comment about the plastic track breaking down the price barrier. I was fortunate to have picked up a bunch of code 250 aluminum rail a while back and that's what allowed me to venture into large scale. This plastic stuff could be the ticket for someone who is on the fence, I know I would jump at it if I didn't have what I need now. Oh yea I operate inside right now (outdoor layout in the planning/dreaming stage) and use battery/RC for power and control. 
Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think until someone does long term testing on a mainline, one should assume that this would be best used on display shelves, dead end storage tracks, and under the christmas tree. 

This track is soft nylon, not hard plastic like bachmann made. 

I cannot see how this track could take metal wheels or anything other than the lightest locomotives. 

I'm not trying to put a damper on here, but if a newbie reads this and thinks that nylon plastic will wear or work as well as metal, he would be mislead. 

Regards, Greg


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

Product description indicates suitable for battery and live steam operation.
I agree with Greg on product test but let's hear what Axel has to say.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You are right, when you drill down further to the individual item diescription: 

ProRail Display US made out of sturdy plastic in unique rusty color MSRP $ 8.50 

ProRail Display has many uses: 
- in conjunction with our ProTies for your display shelves as well storage - as a flatbed car load for a track laying train (highly flexible - go easily around R3) - run engines on battery and live steam without the expense of metal rails 

I'm skeptical on unlimited usage or heavy locos. 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Hi Guys, I am glad that this product finds interest







Let me shed some light on a few questions:

1. No this rail has not yet been used in Europe, becasue it is made in the USA, so my business partner for the Brass and Nickel ProRail will pick this line up for Europe as well as the American style ties. What we made sure is that we use some quality products, hence the HDPE plastic for the ties, strong rail chairs so that they don't flip of when you slide rail into the tie strips or bend the rail. Also the color choices (we actually had a few samples also in Christmas Green and Red) and of course we are supporting our TrainBabes with pink rail









2. The rail itself is actually not made out of HDPE but another very good plastic material (required for some of the flexibility). The material is made out of PVC. To be quite honest "Probieren geht ueber studieren" (old German saying - trying is better than theoretical study) so until we put a thousand hours on that rail and measure the wear we cannot in all honesty make any long term claims. With that said PVC is a very strong material, but yet it is softer than of course brass. So I expect personally some wear, how critical - we have to see. I expect much less wear on straights than in curves, but much less in 10' curves than 2' curves. I wish it is suitable for long term use, this would help those who are into life steam and battery power.

Did I forget anything?

Definitely lets have some fun in 2010 - 

FYI (although it needs to be in another thread) We will have our brand new ProSwitches R7 - that is basically a #6 switch available in February.


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## TruEnuff (Jan 1, 2010)

Hi MLS friends! 
Jerry and Dave said it.....something like this could be the tipping point for many just like me. In fact, it prompted me to register and make my first post on the site. I'm the newbie you are talking about, let me tell you! I just bought a G size Bachmann set to run around this year's Christmas tree and I found MLS only about three weeks ago. (Wow, what a great site....I can't tell you the hours I've spent reading articles on everything, but expecially the beautiful structures! Thanks to all of you for teaching me more about G than I could have imagined. I didn't know what I didn't know!) Soon it will be time to take the tree down. I sure hate the thought of putting the loco and cars in the box until next year, but frankly the cost of moving outside is daunting. And not the least of the costs is track. If only there were a reasonable solution....and now, I find this thread. Could it be? 
I hear Greg and John's caution ...and it is well taken. But, I can't wait to find out how this product tests out...there may be hope for a wannabe newbie after all! 

Bruce 
Sacramento CA.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Sounds mo' interesting. How do you do curves, have to tack them down to something? Sure hope it works out for the beginner, would help many jump in. Should boost battery power adherents also!


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 01 Jan 2010 02:01 PM 
Hi Guys, I am glad that this product finds interest







Let me shed some light on a few questions:

1. No this rail has not yet been used in Europe, becasue it is made in the USA, so my business partner for the Brass and Nickel ProRail will pick this line up for Europe as well as the American style ties. What we made sure is that we use some quality products, hence the HDPE plastic for the ties, strong rail chairs so that they don't flip of when you slide rail into the tie strips or bend the rail. Also the color choices (we actually had a few samples also in Christmas Green and Red) and of course we are supporting our TrainBabes with pink rail









2. The rail itself is actually not made out of HDPE but another very good plastic material (required for some of the flexibility). The material is made out of PVC. To be quite honest "Probieren geht ueber studieren" (old German saying - trying is better than theoretical study) so until we put a thousand hours on that rail and measure the wear we cannot in all honesty make any long term claims. With that said PVC is a very strong material, but yet it is softer than of course brass. So I expect personally some wear, how critical - we have to see. I expect much less wear on straights than in curves, but much less in 10' curves than 2' curves. _* I wish it is suitable for long term use, this would help those who are into life steam and battery power.*_

Did I forget anything?

*Axel *
*Did you put the rail through the tribulations of "trial by fire" before making recommendation for live steam? Secondly, how well does it hold gauge in the extreme weather conditions?*


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Lots of clarification needed, that's for sure.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I think what you guys should do is order a tube of 10 for 7.50 and test them yourselfs and see if its useable for what you want. if not you can always use it for display track and its CHEAP..........Also as far as flexabilaty goes I can bend it in half touching end to end and it doesnt break.


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## neals645 (Apr 7, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 31 Dec 2009 01:38 PM 
Anyone know how durable these rails are...or their heat expansion properties....when installed outside? Will they handle being stepped on? What about when their cold?...or hot? How big a gap do you need to leave between them to handle heat expansion? Do those clips I see on the ties require that the rails be butted together? 

Mike, PVC has an expansion ratio roughly three times that of brass, according to Engineering Toolbox. 
Neal


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah...and PVC breaks down from UV unless there a bunch of stabilizers in it. It also gets brittle in the cold...so I wouldn't step on this stuff. On the other hand...it's cheap enough that you can afford to replace it every few years.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

This is the stuff I need to use inside my new covered storage area. Will get some and replace the last 15 ft in side the shed so I'll gain some SS rail that way. Should give m about 75 ft of rail to use some where else. Do not really need to have track power clear to the end of track. I will also get some to use for my shelving where I store all my loco"s. Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 01 Jan 2010 04:45 PM 
Yeah...and PVC breaks down from UV unless there a bunch of stabilizers in it. It also gets brittle in the cold...so I wouldn't step on this stuff. On the other hand...it's cheap enough that you can afford to replace it every few years. 

Mike from what ive been told. it does have UV stabilizers in it....... Also to do a test i just threw a piece out in the garden here in NY we will see how brittle it might get this weekend will be cold. i will see if it passes the bend test again


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Guys:

We can make any modification to the product to cover your needs - any sugestions are welcome. To be honest, I thought intially of display and storage track and I like as well the track laying train idea too. But we can add as much other compoents into it (price will be slightly higher) in order to make the rail into what you desire. 

Now to the expansion question:

The current linear expansion coefficient of PVC is 8x 10exp-5 /K . I think brass is 20.3x 10exp-6 so 9indeed it expand faster than brass, however, look at the numbers behind the comma - it seems to me very minimal for both properties.

PVC out of the box has a "good" rating on UV resistance without any additional UV protectors.

With that said I am going back to the beginning, lets test one thing first - how is the duarability on battery and live steam. 

Let's say Nylon in comparrison has the same rating of "good" for UV resistance - its thermal expension is compatible to to PVC (5.0x105) but from what I read the wear is worse than PVC as a mtter of fact PVC is not not rated int he following chart:
chemical properties


So it looks like PVC is a better product all around. 
Hope this helps.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

PVC is 28 x 10-6 in/degree f

Brass is 10.4 x 10-6

So PVC is almost 3 times the liner expansion.

You need to take this into consideration when using outdoors, either lay the track in the hottest time of the year, or factor in larger gaps.

It needs a UV additive to withstand sunlight (like any plastic outdoors)

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/l...-d_95.html was used for the thermal expansion, google "pvc uv resistance" for data on uv.

Regards, Greg


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

Does somebody know if these are sold in Europe somewhere also...? 


Yes in every shop where they sell curtains. They are called curtain bars. 

Have Fun 

Fritz / Juergen


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Fritz, I want some of what you are smoking. 

If you can find curtain bars with the cross section of Iron rail like these are, I'll buy you lunch. 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 Jan 2010 12:28 PM 
Fritz, I want some of what you are smoking. 

If you can find curtain bars with the cross section of Iron rail like these are, I'll buy you lunch. 

Regards, Greg 

HA HA HA HA......


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

Well Greg, I hope you know I love European restaurants with a few stars. I´ll check at the Curtain shop for curtain rails next week. 
Meanwhile have fun or a good laugh with the flexible rubber rails here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-bwJkJfImk&feature=related 

Fritz / Juergen


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

you want to see curtain-rail track? 

here it is:


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Kormy, You are good Sir.


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

Amongst many other questions, I have a question about the base width. Is the rail compatible with any other tie strips? I have a whole bunch of SVRR tie strips looking for rail. Has anyone tried this out yet?


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## kormsen (Oct 27, 2009)

no, Nickie, that "curtain-track" is not beautyfull.

but the election was between a shorter line or a makeshift line.
in tunnels and on spots of the layout that are not very visible, these curtain-rails served me well for five or six years. (indoors)


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 Jan 2010 12:28 PM 
Fritz, I want some of what you are smoking. 

If you can find curtain bars with the cross section of Iron rail like these are, I'll buy you lunch. 

Regards, Greg 

Oh Man let's all watch the cobwebs and butterflys and such fly outta Gregs Billfold now!! Or do you use one of those man purses out der in Kalifornia as arnold says!! Hee Hee LOL Regal Couldn't resist the "devil made me do it" hee hee


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By blueregal on 02 Jan 2010 05:44 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 02 Jan 2010 12:28 PM 
Fritz, I want some of what you are smoking. 

If you can find curtain bars with the cross section of Iron rail like these are, I'll buy you lunch. 

Regards, Greg 

Oh Man let's all watch the cobwebs and butterflys and such fly outta Gregs Billfold now!! Or do you use one of those man purses out der in Kalifornia as arnold says!! Hee Hee LOL Regal Couldn't resist the "devil made me do it" hee hee 









At least his will open unlike yours that you need a crow bar to get into.......... HAAAAAAAAAAA


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I hear yer lips a smackin again Nicky!! Regal hee hee 

p.s. it opened for you didn't it Nicky?????????? huh huh huh????????? Didn't take a crowbar then huh?????


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

OPPS My wee wee got a whisle............. Toot Toot from Ozzie. You the man 

De man K fed.......


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Just an FYI, I recevied comments such as:
- How do I bend the rail?
Answer: since the rail doesn't stay in place once you used a rail bender, you will lay down your track with the ties (sleepers for our UK friends) and secure the tie bed which can be easily done via the "in-build" mounting holes









- Any chance that we make code 250?
Answer: Anything is possible, we have to take a look at the intrest level and all the usable applications

- Stronger material and more UV protection?
Answer: We are looking into it and evaluate the additional costs associated with that. We will come back on this issue


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel...I gotta give you a BIG Hoorah. It is SOOOOOOOOOO refreshing to have a manufacturer go open kimono in a forum like this and responsibly take the criticism/comments/remarks and respond as to what you're going to do to address those comments. You may be on the verge of developing a BIG DEAL in this hobby...that being reducing the cost of track so that new folks can enter the hobby. Hopefully, you'll be able to find a material that is both affordable and will stand up to the elements and abuse that track gets.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

FRP 

Regards, Greg


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Agree, couldn't come at a better time. No more complaints about costly rail. Right?


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

Well, instead of posting a million questions and sitting here wondering... I figured for $7.50 you can't go wrong. I ordered a sample package which will hopefully answer all my questions.

Axel, I've always thought that plastic rail could revoloutionize this hobby. And here's 1 vote for making code 250. Wouldn't code 250 require less material and therefore be even cheaper to manufacture? There is no logical reason for code 332 rail that I can think of. All equipment manufactured can run on code 250 and code 250 is also closer to scale for all the scales involved with gauge 1. I can't think of 1 good reason why the gauge 1 community shouldln't make a move away from code 332 altogether. Curse LGB, there are so many UGLY leftovers floating around this hobby simply because that's the way LGB "used to do it". Compatibility is not an issue, we have conversion rail joiners for that very reason. But I digress. I look forward to my plastic rail arriving so I can experiment.


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## WarEagle90 (Jan 3, 2008)

I have also ordered enough rail and ties to make a small oval layout that I can run my Dash 9's and 10 or 12 cars on to experiment with this new product. Axel has been very helpful in answering my questions and I greatly appreciate it. If this product or some variation of it works, it will defintely allow those of us on a tight budget to enjoy our hobby even more.

Dan


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

I ordered the big box, and will report back on the effects of cold, tight radius curves, and hand spiking on wood.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I threw a piece out side a few days ago and it very cold out, and i can still flex it in half







In talking With Axel it seems he is willing to do what he can to improve this product so it can be used as a low cost entry level track for people to get into the hobby without spending a bundle on track..
Thanks Axel,
Its guys like you that think about the hobby and the people in it........


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And double credit for having such a cute wife! 

OK, now I am in trouble! 

Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I just placed an order for some of the track to use in my new covered storage area. We shall see how it works. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, but something wrong in the math.

100 pieces 5 foot long is for rail only. Not track. $50.


That's 500 foot of rail, BUT there are 2 rails on a piece of track, so that's 250 foot of track.

So for $100, you got 500 foot of track and no ties.

100 pieces of ties (12" long each) is $100.

So 500 foot of track would take 2 bundles of 100 pieces of rail and 100 sections of ties, that is $200 for 500 feet and no joiners.


You also need joiners, but you can use any joiners. They are $14 a pack, so don't know how that figures in exactly.

Also, the site lists 25 foot of track (not rail only or not ties only) for $50. In this method, it's $200 per 100 feet.

So 1,000 feet of track is $400 and no joiners.


Regards, Greg


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Today I ordered 500ft of rail to use for the upcoming covered storage sidings and other projects.
JimC.


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## Mike Reilley (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Manco on 04 Jan 2010 02:06 PM 
Well, instead of posting a million questions and sitting here wondering... I figured for $7.50 you can't go wrong. I ordered a sample package which will hopefully answer all my questions.

I can't think of 1 good reason why the gauge 1 community shouldln't make a move away from code 332 altogether. 



I can. Several in fact.

a. Code 332 rail is stronger...there's more mass per foot. That means it's tougher just because it's bigger. That helps it survive when stepped on. Some of us have children and grand children.

b. Code 332 rail is out there already...probably 100 times that of Code 250. So folks that already own 332 could use this stuff...and there's more of them.
c. Especially for plastics...size matters when you're talking about UV degradation. In short, thicker plastic will last longer because UV will get to the plastic over time...even if it's well stabilized. In aircraft, where UV degradation of plastic can be a safety problem, it's required to be painted with a primer that has a lot of silver in it...and then paint over that.


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## WarEagle90 (Jan 3, 2008)

Mike,

You mentioned painting plastic exposed to uv. Would that be an option here? Paint the rail with uv resistant paint and weather it at the same time! The railhead may need repainting from time to time, but I can paint a lot of rail for what brass and stainless costs now.

Dan


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I would think code 250 could be done by making the rail all to fit code 250, except for the base, make it the same size as the 332 and you can use the same ties, so the only expense would be a die to do the modified code 250 and that would be it. Difference in amount of material should make up for the added hassle of having two codes.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

To add to Mike's list, one advantage of code 332, is junk on the ties between the rails is less of a problem with taller rail. 

That said, I am seriously considering going code 250. But I have no one stepping on track, no kids, no pets, no animals, and a very controlled area where leaves are my only problem. 

Regards, Greg


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## fsfazekas (Feb 19, 2008)

Posted By Jerry Barnes on 04 Jan 2010 07:53 PM 
I would think code 250 could be done by making the rail all to fit code 250, except for the base, make it the same size as the 332 and you can use the same ties, so the only expense would be a die to do the modified code 250 and that would be it. Difference in amount of material should make up for the added hassle of having two codes. 
Jerry!! Brilliant!!! Man I can just imagine pulling all my aluminium code 332 rail on Aristo american ties and slipping in the "plastic" code 250...and having it work becaues the rail base is the same size! Might even work for the code 332 LGB brass?


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

With the kids, dog, deer idiot neighbors and bears, 250 is just not an option right now. Plus, by the time I am done building with 332 through the years with all the previous problems listed I won't wanna switch to 250 due to cost. It does look better but 332 is just so much stronger. 

the plastic track is going to find it's way into my garage for storage tracks. Thanks Axel!! 
Terry


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

Posted By Mike Reilley on 04 Jan 2010 07:17 PM 
Posted By Manco on 04 Jan 2010 02:06 PM 
Well, instead of posting a million questions and sitting here wondering... I figured for $7.50 you can't go wrong. I ordered a sample package which will hopefully answer all my questions.

I can't think of 1 good reason why the gauge 1 community shouldln't make a move away from code 332 altogether. 



I can. Several in fact.

a. Code 332 rail is stronger...there's more mass per foot. That means it's tougher just because it's bigger. That helps it survive when stepped on. Some of us have children and grand children.

b. Code 332 rail is out there already...probably 100 times that of Code 250. So folks that already own 332 could use this stuff...and there's more of them.
c. Especially for plastics...size matters when you're talking about UV degradation. In short, thicker plastic will last longer because UV will get to the plastic over time...even if it's well stabilized. In aircraft, where UV degradation of plastic can be a safety problem, it's required to be painted with a primer that has a lot of silver in it...and then paint over that.




Not to be argumentative, but for discussion purposes:

A: I can't think of why code 332 rail holds up better to being stepped on. In all my experiences with traffic (Human or animal) wrecking track, the rail popping out of the plastic tie plates has been the problem. This has resulted from the lateral forces of a blow. Taller rail actually has greater tendency to "tip" and therefore with more height comes greater leverage upon the plastic tie plates increasing it's propensity to being pried from the strip. Now, if you're talking about a downwards blow with no lateral forces... well even aluminum code 250 can withstand that, within reason of course, as the forces of the blow will be transferred downwards into the tie strip below it and then the roadbed meaning, once again, the toughness of your track depends on your tie strips and what's supporting it. I have aluminum code 250 outdoors with lots of dog traffic and I have yet to have the rail "squished" downwards, only pried from the tie strips. 


B: Like I said, perfectly compatible with conversion rail joiners.

C: I won't pretend to be qualified to answer that. But I say let time tell the tale. As long as it *should take for this stuff to degrade to the point of uslessness, what difference will it really make? Say it takes 50 years for code 250 to degrade... and you get another 5 or 10 years out of code 332? Does anyone really care at that point? 

Just my thoughts. Not trying to derail the thread... but maybe this discussion could be useful to Axel in determining if he wants to produce code 250. If one were to reverse history, and say code 332 had not been produced and code 250 was the norm. If code 332 were suddenly introduced I believe people would disdain it for it's ungainly size and extra cost to produce. I think people like code 332 purely for subjective reasons not objective.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I am soooo sorry
-I screwed up. 

And thanks to Greg I was now able to correct it. The correct price was always $1.95 per foot for track in quantity with 50% going to the ties and 50% for the rails. When I made the rail calculation must must have been on stupid juice.....

Our correct intentions were always visible in the box of ProTrack Display, but I can't even begin to imagine what I did when I put the track prices in. But I stand to my mistakes all orders until now will be delivered to the old web price, all new ones for the correct price - I cover the loss (which is substantial because I kept the margins low).

With all of that said - I beleived all away along that this is still an excellent price otherwise I wouldn't have engaged into it.

Now to the 250 discussion.

I am in 332 camp, because the two areas were I had to use 250 rail, cause the biggest problems in terms of low clearance for my rolling stock. In addition the rail is not as sturdy. So I like the plastic rail to be also 332. Here is the extra problem, while I could consider making 250 rail, then I can't make any ties und you would have to use ties from other manufacturers. Someone suggest to keep the rail foot in the width of 332 but I think I then end up with of center rail, because the rail needs to be more inward? Right?


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

Axel,

Perhaps teaming up with a manufacturer OR making the base width of the rail the same as other manufacturers of code 250 would relieve you of the need to redesign another set of tie strips for code 250. I wouldn't be put off by having to purchase tie strips from another source, the cost of tie strips seems pretty standard across the board, it's the rail people need to save on. 


At any rate I'm just very happy you've made plastic rail available, I can live with the code.


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but once you receive the rails, is there some type of paint or chemical process one could use to protect from UV without it coming off from wear and tear of train wheels? 

I applaud the producer of this rail, as it will make it affordable for many who would otherwise shy away. 

Digression follows: 

Quote from Manco: 

"If one were to reverse history, and say code 332 had not been produced and code 250 was the norm. If code 332 were suddenly introduced I believe people would disdain it for it's ungainly size and extra cost to produce. I think people like code 332 purely for subjective reasons not objective." 

This logic (or illogic applies to many things. For example, if the smaller scale folks all used battery and a company suddenly introduced electric to the rails, people would complain about all the wiring and unprototypicalness and clean railheads and so on.


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## paintjockey (Jan 3, 2008)

I know I'm in the minority but I actually moved up to 332 from 250. I started with a 20' circle of 250 in my backyard mainly becuase it was cheaper but also because it looked better than 332. As I stated above I have little kids, stupid neighbors with four wheelers and snowmobiles (to their credit they have paid for what they destroyed) a dog, (big dog) deer and a black bear who love my apple and pear trees. 

The four wheelers destroyed the 250 once. But they haven't ridden over the 332.... yet. 
The snowmobiles destroyed the 250 two winters in a row. The 332 holds up to it. (friends of the neighbors different people each time) 
Zeus the dog bent the 250 but not the 332. 
The deer trashed the 250 but the 332 has done good. They did break some 332 ties though. 
The bear smashed the 250 while shaking the pear tree but the 332 has withstood his foraging except when he digs for grubs. 
The kids, well kids are kids. They ran on, jumped on, pretended to be trains on, rode bikes over, tripped on (etc etc etc) both the 250 and now the 332 and the 332 has held up much better. 

Now, I do run 250 in my basement and on my modular layout because it looks sooo much better but for durability the 332 has proven itself for me. Others mileage may vary. 

Again I commend Axel for the rail and the other great products (rail bender) he has brought to the Large scale community. I will most certainly be getting some track in the near future. 
Terry


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

Terry,

That's quite a story, what part of the country do you live in? In N. Va. we rarely see bears. About 8 years ago, a stray came within about 300 yards of my house.

Dave


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 04 Jan 2010 08:18 PM 
To add to Mike's list, one advantage of code 332, is junk on the ties between the rails is less of a problem with taller rail. 

That said, I am seriously considering going code 250. But I have no one stepping on track, no kids, no pets, no animals, and a very controlled area where leaves are my only problem. 

Regards, Greg 

Great news!
Sir, may I place my order for 3/4 circle 10' diameter Stainless Steel track
30' SS striaght
3 RH SS WR switches
1 LH SS WR switch

Hot Dang this is so timely...







I just figured out my final alignment that allows me to incorporate my roundy as linear!

The hoof of a disgruntled 300 pound very wild Javalina -pig like peccary - would easily ding anything less than Aristo's tough as armour 332.

For me the biggest advantage of going outdoors is the natural landscape...never realizing how much of a battle that is in uncivilised country.
I have proof my hillside moves! The top 2 inches have migrated with every rain...6" a year! 
Screw together my track has stayed put.
So send me the cost and I 'll get back in kind...


John


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

dang, you guys got me LOL, wild bears, 300 lb peccary, snowmobiles, 4 wheelers, Zeus the dog


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Oh the inhumanity of it all!! Just think of all the people who are going to have to come to the darkside now because of plastic track, and go battery and RC!! Yikes Der goes the neighborhood!! Regal LOL No more arguments over lektricity versus battery der huh????? hee hee


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Someday I've got to figure out that dang Battery loco you sold me Regal. Then I may buy some of that new fangled plastic track. 

Chas


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

OOOOO no you bought a battery powered loco from Jerry? Im so sorry for you. he cant even solder














and when the battery dies he'l be back to track power in a snap...








Track power rules HAAAAAAAAAAAA..........


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Yup and someday Nicky may learn how to spell too!!!! Hee hee


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

OOO well at least my trains run...........







Solder Man he he he








The Regal....... Haaaaaaaaaa


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jerry talking about Nick's spelling? What's wrong with this picture? 

hahahahaha! 

Seriously, it's good to know that the plastic track is $2 a foot, not 10 cents! 

I see the Train-Li website has been updated. 

So, in today's market, the plastic track is basically 1/3 the price of the cheapest Aristo brass flex track. 

Good to know.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By wchasr on 05 Jan 2010 11:34 AM 
Someday I've got to figure out that dang Battery loco you sold me Regal. Then I may buy some of that new fangled plastic track. 

Chas 
What's to figure? wchasr, you have a t-9000 throttle??? if not get one or the procab which I would recommend for ease of use, and you flip the two switches on top of the diesel, if I remember right a green one and a white one and away you go!! Unless you haven't charged the battteries on board yet and then it may not run till ya do!! Easy peasey!! Regal


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ba hum bug to battery. So what's wrong with using 332 if your operating current type equip. Most major RR upgrade to bigger rail to handle the heaver loads. The trend was to go to 136 # rail now its to 141# rail. Even back in the 50s the Pennsy use 152 pound rail. Running on smaller rail just causes more problems and makes you spend more money for wheels and such so you can operate on it. Later RJD


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Let's face it. Mr Rodgers is dead and the neighborhood is going to the dogs. Everybody start reading up on Battery Power


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blueregal on 05 Jan 2010 01:10 PM 
Posted By wchasr on 05 Jan 2010 11:34 AM 
Someday I've got to figure out that dang Battery loco you sold me Regal. Then I may buy some of that new fangled plastic track. 

Chas 
What's to figure? wchasr, you have a t-9000 throttle??? if not get one or the procab which I would recommend for ease of use, and you flip the two switches on top of the diesel, if I remember right a green one and a white one and away you go!! Unless you haven't charged the battteries on board yet and then it may not run till ya do!! Easy peasey!! Regal 





A-yup I got the T-9000 before the ProCab was avaiable when I got the Dash from you. Tried the two switches thing adn while I can get lights to come on the controller does nothing to controll anything on the loco there seems to be absolutely no connection ( wireless) of any sort between them. I gave up for now and it sits on a shelf in the home office until I take some more time to play with it. My old RC car days were MUCH simpler and I started before plug and play! 

Chas


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

I think good quality plastic rail will be the best thing since sliced bread! ;-D

My views are;

1) The price of track is very important to the garden railroading hobby.

2) I run live steam Märklin and Aster. So far, I've stuck with code 215 rail, which honestly really is very coarse rail in 1:32. But, if I could buy code 250 plastic, I think I would be willing to step up!

3) I think it may be possible to nickle-plate the rails. It might hold upp much, much longer than most would guess. (Such a plated surface is actually soft / springing - not brittle, as one might think. Within reason of course  It might even be possible to plate only the top running surface of the rail. If this is economical though, I don't know. Nickle plating aluminium rail might compare better.

4) Since the plastic rail won't retain any curvature by it self, I would suggest making sleeper sections that can be assembled to several radiuses. Märklin offers such an option. An Austrian producer also makes sleeper sections that can be assembled either to make straight track, or 2,3 metre radius. Alas, only just this single option.

I've personally been thinking, one could make a solid "plastic-bead" chain, that would mount under one side of the sleepers. The distance of the beads would adjust the spacing on one side of the sleepers, deciding the radius / curvature. (The sleepers would have constant spacing on the other side, just the way they normally are today.) Of course, I imagine moulding several different "plasic-bead-chains" for different radiuses.

Good luck Axle!


With regards from Sweden.


A bit off topic, I have to say I love the way you Americans are instictively allways open to new and unconventional ideas! It's a huge bonus to any aspect of USA living - including model railway hobby. Your first response is always trying to evaluate new ideas in a POSITIVE spirit. 

Sadly, I think that is not quite the prevailing sentiment generally found in Sweden or Germany. Just comparing the number of - ratio of - not so positive, disgruntled contributions, as opposed to positive contributions in forums in respective countries, is sadly striking to me. I'm very likely not to have read a single negative contribution during a visit to the mylargescale forum, than any other forum I usually visit.

Also, I find that the understanding and concern for the pricing and necessary profitability of any business, is sort of soaked into the minds of Americans - which also helpes. Your natural concern for the economic viability of Axles offering (mould costs etc) is striking to me. Consumers in Sweden and Germany tend to have a "free lunch" or "Santa Claus" attitude towards sellers and manufacturers. Is it really coincidence that Märklin and LGB have gone bancrupt?!? Whereas the competing USA manufacturers seem to me to be much more viable and dynamic!


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

"The Graduate": and the future is...


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

Jerry B 

Just stumbled on this thread, so I a little late commenting on the "code 250 rail to fit code 332 tie sections" idea. 

I still use LGB 332 for the temporary display layouts that we do during the holidays. It can stand the constant assembly / disassembly cycle even after 20 years. My first permanent layout used code 250 aluminum rail from Micro Engineering. It would not tolerate the physical abuse of having heavy stuff dropped on it or being stepped on. The rails would get vertical kinks and have to be spliced out and replaced because you could not really straighten it. 

My second layout used code 215 Nickel Silver from Llagas Creek. It looked great with my 1:32 and even 1:20.3 stuff but unless rigidly fastened down was getting pushed around by the heavy live steamers. I moved back to code 250 on a solid base of Trex decking and everything has been fine. 

THE issue is that if you measure the height of the simulated "spikes" or "bolt heads" from the base of the rail on code 332 tie strips you will find that the remaining vertical distance to the top of the running rail is less than the typical flange depth on most wheelsets for anything but 1:32 scale equipment. That means the equipment will be bouncing down the track. So code 250 that fits existing 332 ties is not really an answer. 

There are two "standard" code 250 rail base sizes, the one used by Llagas Creek Rys and Micro Engineering, and the one used by Sunset Valley RR and Accucraft. They are different enough that they are NOT interchangable. If Axel chooses to go into the code 250 plastic rail business, he will have to choose one or the other. One person early on in the thread indicated he had lots of SVRR tie strips and would like to try the plastic rail in it. 

I sell both code 250 products (LCRy and SVRR), and each design has its merits. I would welcome a product that fit either rail profile. I would be happy to sell lots of ties. 

IF I use it in a storage yard [inside] I would probably just fasten it directly to the surface with no ties at all. Easier to keep the area clean [no junk collecting between the ties], and easier to find parts that get knocked off or come loose from the equipment. I would probably opt for code 332 in this application just because it will be more robust than 250. 

Just my nickel [ 2 cents adjusted for inflation since I started in large scale]


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

Ok Update:

Just received my rail today. It will NOT fit in SVRR tie strips; just as I had suspected. The For the rest of you who ordered this rail, please experiment with other common or well known brands of tie strips and see what works and what doesn't. I don't possess any other brands so I can't try it out myself. I'm most interested to see if Aristocraft tie strips will hold this rail. 


[EDIT:

I did remember I have a chunk of Aristo narrow gauge sectional track lying around. As the picture shows, the Train-Li rail substitues in just fine. I'm curious if the rail will work with standard gauge tie strips however.










/EDIT:]


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought Train Li had their own tie strips?


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

They do, but at over $1 a strip (which seems to be the going rate for most other manufacturers) I'll hold out and see if other brands won't work before I order.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Actually their tie strip is low priced, most others are about $1.50 a foot. 

Regards, Greg


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

Maybe I should shop again. Seems like last year when I was track shopping I was finding Aristo tie strips for $1. But then that was for a bulk box of at least 100. I just checked and SVRR is $2.25 a strip! Ouch. Maybe I should just get the Train-Li, although they look a little "europeeny".


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I looked only at the 100 foot prices on everything... either SVRR or Llagas was about a buck in quantity... I forget which it was, but one has pretty short tie strips. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well I just ordered the tie strips from Train-Li anyway. So we shall see how it all shapes up when it arrives this week. Later RJD


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Actually the *ProTies US* tie strips are US Mainline width and number of ties per foot. This is like the common standard. We were proud to keep the price at $1 while we are actually having more substance in the tie strips compared to other brands. This will be quite visible in the rail chairs. The $1 per foot is even more impressive since this is a US made product. All the other $1 products come from China - we at least know whats in the strips.

The ties, don't have any wood grain, becasue we wanted to keep the universal, e.g. the grey version looks like concrete sleepers. Several of our customers writer us already that they are perfect since in a few feet distance you wouldn't see the grain anyhow. However, detail purists might be disappointed.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Axel that is pretty amazing that it's made in the US. Good for you! 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I like the Train-Li ties cause there cheap, they look like modern concrete ties and they have a built in clamp for the plastic rail, also i notice they can easly be cut off if you want to use them with metal rail







Also the spikes that hold the track are a lot heavier that Aristos so should hold up better........


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Now Nick, that's just not fair! 

To Train-Li of course! 

Anything stands up better than the Aristo "spikes", most time they just fall off, but they don't hold the rail anyway! (the screws do) 

It's the truth! 

Regards, Greg


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 17 Jan 2010 07:06 PM 
Now Nick, that's just not fair! 

To Train-Li of course! 

Anything stands up better than the Aristo "spikes", most time they just fall off, but they don't hold the rail anyway! (the screws do) 

It's the truth! 

Regards, Greg 

ummmmmmmmmm i only use 8ft flex rail, no screws any were........ Ties just slide on







thats why i was thinking of buying 3000 of Axles ties.


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

I ordered the Train-Li ties today. I love my SVRR track but the reality is the tie strips just aren't as beefy as they need to be for my needs. I have two hyper Labradors sharing the backyard with the layout and when they run across the tracks they tend to snap the rail from the strips. As much as I hate code 332 I need the extra beefiness the tie strips provide. I'm sure these Train-Li strips will be much better.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)




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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe I missed this in 6 pages of posts, but Manco, what rail are you going to put into the Train-Li ties? Would be interested in some measurements of the base of the plastic rail. 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

The SVVR rail I have here in stock is a mix of code 250 with a code 332 rail head. Unfortuantely the rail foot is code 250. *Manco* We may have to cancel your order because our ties are designed for the standard 7mm foot that is common on code 332 rail, not the 6mm foot that SVRR rail has.

The above finding is also important for the use of EasyBend DuoTrak. You need a code 332 Bender but a code 250 KeepParallel clamp. We found this out the hardway.

So again, our ProTie US are for code 332 rail, such as ProRail Display, ProRail Brass, ProRail NI, ProRail Stainless Steel (LGB, Aristo, ...).

FYI, I am looking into making code 250 rail, but what rail foot? 5mm, 5.5mm, 6 mm? Or do I understand from this discussion that I should make ties for that as well? And if me make rail ture code 250 or SVRR type of mix?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nick are you saying the AC SS rail will fit these ties? Later RJD


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Slides rite on RJ.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Thanks for the info Axel, that answers the question about the size. 

The question about the width of the foot of the rail for code 250 is tricky, as you have pointed out. 

The SVRR and Llagas Creek would be the two brands to look at. I would personally look at Sunset Valley RR because they make rail in 4 different metals and offer more turnouts in more materials. 

Regards, Greg


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

I think there's some confusion here. I ordered the Train-Li ties for the Train-Li plastic rail I ordered 2 weeks ago. I originally ordered the rail only with hopes some tie strips I already had may work. Since they don't, I'm now ordering the tie strips designed for them. 

After reading my last post I understand where the confusion came from. I presented two separate ideas with no clear separation, my bad.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

OK, fine, the order shipped and should arrvie soon. Thanks so much


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

My track arrived today so out we go to lay some on a stub track to see how it will hold up. Some will also be used as display track. 

Any body got any ideas how to secure the ties to the rail so it does not move in the tie strip. As it is now it slips in the ties to easily and you can not control the rail from moving. I tried super glue, did not even faze it. The AC bras rail fits much snugger in the tie strip so no roblem there. Also the rail metal rail joiners do not fit unless you file the side of base so the joiner will slide on. Later RJD


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

If you can't control the slippage on curves, you may need to add a few strategically placed rods or braces by tapping the rails on both sides through the web. I see real railroads doing that.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By aceinspp on 20 Jan 2010 11:55 AM 
My track arrived today so out we go to lay some on a stub track to see how it will hold up. Some will also be used as display track. 

Any body got any ideas how to secure the ties to the rail so it does not move in the tie strip. As it is now it slips in the ties to easily and you can not control the rail from moving. I tried super glue, did not even faze it. The AC bras rail fits much snugger in the tie strip so no roblem there. Also the rail metal rail joiners do not fit unless you file the side of base so the joiner will slide on. Later RJD 


RJ are you using Axels ties? the do have a clamp built rite in the ties


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

R.J., you mean your tube of Amazing Goop is AWOL ??!!

Heavens!









Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg have not tried it yet but that is the next thing to do. This stuff is slicker than snot.







As some of this track is being used as display track I did not want to have to resort to drilling and screwing the rail down. Just wanted a quick easy fix to restrain the rail. Later RJD


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

The quick, easy way to stick the rail down is Duct tape. 357 is best.


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

The built in clamp is designed for use with a short flat pan head screw 8/32 thread, 1/4 or 3/8 length.
The same type of pan head, used in Aristo's vertical brass clamps.
Available in stainless or zinc. Zinc is cheaper. 

Not easily found at Home Depot or Lowes, but better found in Nut & Bolt local dealers.Unlike brass, you can not over tighten, just snug down the rail.
And it's not necessary to use every clamp hole, unless you want. 



Then your rail is snugged and aligned to the tie. 
The short pan heads allow you to still pick up the track and move it.

The rail ends comes rough cut.

For a more uniform joint without gaps, I use a cheap cut off saw from Harbor Frieght.
Or a dremel tool also works well. 
However if you have to make a cut further in, I suggest making two cuts.
The first cut is difficult to make at a 90 degree due to the length of the drill itself.
The second cut is just a 1/16 or 1/8 trim cut at a the 90.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

From your comments, you must either have some, or you are the manufacturer! 

How do you like the track so far, and any other tips? 

Regards, Greg


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Yes,
I have some and have used it primarily for display on shelving. Cost of brass vs plastic, was an easy decision. The trains look so much better sitting on track. Plus the color is appealing to me.


Couldn't help but notice the rail ends were not trimmed square like brass. First I tried pliers to clean the edge. It cut easy but it didn't satisfy me, so I just trimmed the end with a fine tooth saw as I normally would have with brass. No problem, in this hobby, I've cut lots of track. And this cuts smooth and quick.



As for the cutting tips, those were things I learned working with brass 332 rail.

As for the screw head dimensions, I used the same ones from my Aristo brass clamps (1/4). They worked, but I needed a box of them, so I shopped the screws a little longer. (3/8) The longer ones worked slightly better. Less than $5 for a box of 100 in zinc. Stainless was twice the price. By comparison, 2 zinc screws take the place of 1 brass joiner. I forget how many joiners come in a small bag that cost me about 10 bucks, a dozen or so? I don't even have to do the math to see the screws are way cheaper. Expensive brass joiners are overkill for display. I've tried the plastic rail in Aristo joiners, but not LGB, and yes, I find them a little tight. But then again, I have got a small used pile of joiners, all either too tight or too loose with the brass rail too. Rather than sort through all my joiners, I just decided to use the screws.


Recently at a train show before Christmas, I invested in a battery pack, charger and Aristo Train Engineer for a battery powered train. (Something I swore I'd never do) I know it is 'display rail' but I am currently running the new battery train on a test oval of the plastic track to learn how the charger works and see how long the battery pack lasts. 

So far, I really like it for what I'm doing with it.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

The rail can be easily secured with two screws per tie strip (diagonally positioned). In reality you do not need to put screws in every tie strip, but it also doesn't hurt.

Curves can be easily constructed by first securing the two ends of a 5' section to a firm support base. For indoor layouts that is easy, for outdoor layouts that are normally floating I suggest to bury a pressure treated wood block under a few inches of crusher fines and then use extra long deck screws to tie down the rail bed. This actually also secures the rail right away. Place as many screws in the right places until you feel the track is no longer moving. (If you didn't put a frim support into the road board, I actually hat good luck with regualr track to secure it right into the crusher fines with extra long deck screws).

The ProTies US are now available in the following colors:

- Creosote Black
- European Brown (we now matched the color to our European brown ties which matches the color of LGB®)
- Concrete Grey
- TrainBabe® Pink
- White
- Beige
- Green
- Red
- Any color you desire (minimum order 1500 tie strips)


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## dawgnabbit (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi, All...

I know I'm checking in very late into this thread (as seems to have become a habit), but I just wanted to say: 


_Congratulations, Axel!_

I've felt for a long, long time that extruded rail made of some good engineering plastic could be a real product winner. Such a natural complement to on-board power (Yes, I'm a DarkSider).

I hope it goes over big; I certainly intend lay a test section with it and see how it takes Montana conditions.

Dawg


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel,

Has the new shipment of 332 come in yet? The DBR track crew eagerly await.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Well i got my rail last week so you should be getting yours. It's very easy to cut as i use sonna saw and did great, nice clean cut. I will be using some sort of adhesive to secure the rail to the ties in several places instead of screws. Mine will be permanently installed for display track. later RJD


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

OK, we will be catching up. I just got another load of rail and we will fill orders for Monday shipment (FEDEX Home Delivery).

On another front an update.

A large circle is now for many hours operating a battery operated train. On the average we get 3 hours out of NiCd batteries. One very interesting observation is that the trains run very smooth and much more silent than of course on metal. (Maybe we need to add a sound system to the setup








). So far everything holds up very nicely and we are happy with the results.

Many poeple have written us that they like our US style ties. The rail chairs are beefier than what hey have seen in the past and they are confident that they don't snap. 

So ProTie US can be used comfortably for our metal rail as well as our plastic rail. However, I would like to make an important point:

Normally (with metal rails) you expect on Flextrack Flexties that allow you to bend them easily for curved sections. With metal rails that is OK, becasue metal rails provide sturdiness, while the plastic rail is very flexible. The point is that the plastic rail benefits on straight sections from uncut tie strips (versus flexible tie strips). You should consider this when you order. Maybe you want to order uncut and only cut them when needed.

The strips come uncut out of the molds, we use a band saw to cut alternating the connectors (2 minute job). Just specify your needs on the order.


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## pagosarr (Jan 5, 2008)

OK, I am very late in the game of finding this thread. So forgive me if I have missed something. But my understanding is this product is available only in American style tie spacing format. Is that correct? 

If so why would it appeal to probably at least 95% of the potential customer base who have either LGB track or Euro style Aristo track? 

Rog Bush


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By pagosarr on 30 Jan 2010 07:10 PM 
OK, I am very late in the game of finding this thread. So forgive me if I have missed something. But my understanding is this product is available only in American style tie spacing format. Is that correct? 

If so why would it appeal to probably at least 95% of the potential customer base who have either LGB track or Euro style Aristo track? 

Rog Bush 

UMMMMMMMMM, probably because LGB is no longer a factor?. gonzo, out of here see ya type thing?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Rog, are you saying that there is no incentive for the LGB and Euro users? Not quite sure what you are trying to convey. 

Regards, Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By pagosarr on 30 Jan 2010 07:10 PM 
OK, I am very late in the game of finding this thread. So forgive me if I have missed something. But my understanding is this product is available only in American style tie spacing format. Is that correct? 

If so why would it appeal to probably at least 95% of the potential customer base who have either LGB track or Euro style Aristo track? 

Rog Bush 
I don't recall that I said that tie usage is 95%. But I always say, 95% of all US customers model American Rolling Stock. I ought to know, I am myself among the other 5%, of which - like myself, model RhB. So I know many (yet not all) US based RhB fans.

With all of that said, of course you can order ProRail Display and seperately order ProTie Europe. Only ProTie Europe is about twice the price of ProTie US







unfortunately. But you can buy it, I have it, and our ProTie European are better detailed and of better quality than what I have seen on the market.


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

fwiw, Axel's new nylon track is generating interest in places you might not think of right away -- like the 7/8ths crowd, who are virtually all battery and steam guys, and will typically be spiking it to wooden sleepers to model 2 foot gauge.


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## pagosarr (Jan 5, 2008)

Nick and Greg - Sorry, I didn't express myself very well. I was puzzled by why LGBers using LGB track with Euro tie spacing would want to start using Pro Track (US) and have two different tie styles in the same layout. BUT - now I know from Axel's post that there is Pro Tie Euro.

Axel - Sorry, I didn't know you had Pro Tie European. Can't find it on your website. Did a search for "Pro Tie" and find only Pro Tie US. Are Pro Switches available in both American and European tie spacing?

Rog Bush


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Roger:

It was until 5 minutes ago just under ProTie, but now has been renamed to ProTie Europe 
ProTie Europe

Although correctly spoken the tie spacing was also popular on American narrow guage.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The switches are made in Europe and have the same look as the ties which are the ProTie Europe style. 
So, the R2, R3 (and soon to come R6?) switches need a ProTie Europe note on the web site.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel 
is says gray ties, so I guess they are not concrete sytle ties? 
I wanted to try to produce concrete looking ties to replace some of my older mainly stuff.????? 

I bought a few sticks this weekend from kidmans at the show. I have a butt load of AC and AML ties so I tried them tonight,.
The rail flexes so much even with AC ties I would have to nail it down every foot to keep it straight.
I plan to install some outside in dead end sidings .
IF IT EVER STOPS SNOWING!!!!!!! AND WARMS UP...

Plus Nick ,I'm sure you sand all joints before butting them together.


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

My box arrived. Interesting stuff. It slips easily into an lgb R2 tie assembly and makes a very nice curve. It's a little tougher sliding the rail into an Aristocraft R2 sleeper set. Once done, neither require fastening the tie assembly to the roadbed. 

Best news for me is that MicroEngineering plastic sleepers do, in fact, slide on, very snuggly. I can produce curves by sliding individual ties on to a section and then pushing the tips together on one side. 

Good looking rail btw. The 7/8ths crowd will like it. 

Next test is hand spiking. 

Cheers...


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Typing from Nuernberg:

Yes the gray are the concrete looking ties great for everyone who want to throw a little bit modern railroading into the mix.

In terms of the rail being flexible: that's why we are asking everyone to specify if they want our ProTies US cut or not. I suggest to keep them uncut for the straight sections, because they offer a lot of sturdiness. 

I am glad that the 7/8 community will enjoy these as well.

And for the holidays (we just missed last Christmas):

But we will offer packages:

red-white-blue for national holidays
red-white-green for Christmas
black-orange for Halloween

and please guys don't forget the ladies for their TrainBabe layouts the pink tie edition.


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## snowshoe (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pdk on 04 Feb 2010 08:07 AM 
My box arrived. Interesting stuff. It slips easily into an lgb R2 tie assembly and makes a very nice curve. It's a little tougher sliding the rail into an Aristocraft R2 sleeper set. Once done, neither require fastening the tie assembly to the roadbed. 

Best news for me is that MicroEngineering plastic sleepers do, in fact, slide on, very snuggly. I can produce curves by sliding individual ties on to a section and then pushing the tips together on one side. 

Good looking rail btw. The 7/8ths crowd will like it. 

Next test is hand spiking. 

Cheers... 

Pete does this mean the Daisy Beach will be back in service. I really miss your layout.


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

OH MY!! Pink, Orange, and other colors????? Oh the horror of it all!! Yikes! The rail community has gone MAD!! Frilly Dilly track now! LOL Regal


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Posted By blueregal on 04 Feb 2010 09:25 AM 
OH MY!! Pink, Orange, and other colors????? Oh the horror of it all!! Yikes! The rail community has gone MAD!! Frilly Dilly track now! LOL Regal 

As you are the King of frilly dilly i heard you just ordered 12 case of the pink stuff







Someone told me you looked pritty in PINK. haaaaaaaaaaa


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Snowshoe: Maybe. I am just dabbling while I searching for inspiration.


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Way too snug, as it turns out. Hard to slide on and off. I would not recommend this rail with ME plastic sleepers. Otherwise, I'm liking the rail. Posted By pdk on 04 Feb 2010 08:07 AM 
MicroEngineering plastic sleepers do, in fact, slide on, very snuggly. I can produce curves by sliding individual ties on to a section and then pushing the tips together on one side.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Axel has flipped his bippy. Pink, Yikes and my wife does not even like that color. Later RJD


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Marty, I had the gray-concrete looking ties in CB, and did't get a chance to show them to you. I knew you had said that you wanted to use up some old ties you had. I will send one of the gray ones so you can take a look.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks Mike 
But if they are not shaped like concrete ones , then I will pass. 
I think the plastic rail is a great idea for "some" applications.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

Marty, they ARE shaped like concrete ties.......... look at the picture.................


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Now you are asking too much Nick! 

You gotta spoon feed Marty... 

ha ha... you gotta admit Marty, you do this, just like ragging on my 0-6-0 saying the headlight did not work... but I caved and made a youtube video just for you.. 

Greg


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Here's an idea, Axel... How about offering your rail in 100 foot lengths? Don't chop it into fives. Ship it coiled in a circle like hose. Save on joiners and good for modelling modern welded rail.  Posted By Axel Tillmann on 18 Jan 2010 05:29 AM 
The SVVR rail I have here in stock is a mix of code 250 with a code 332 rail head. Unfortuantely the rail foot is code 250. *Manco* We may have to cancel your order because our ties are designed for the standard 7mm foot that is common on code 332 rail, not the 6mm foot that SVRR rail has.

The above finding is also important for the use of EasyBend DuoTrak. You need a code 332 Bender but a code 250 KeepParallel clamp. We found this out the hardway.

So again, our ProTie US are for code 332 rail, such as ProRail Display, ProRail Brass, ProRail NI, ProRail Stainless Steel (LGB, Aristo, ...).

FYI, I am looking into making code 250 rail, but what rail foot? 5mm, 5.5mm, 6 mm? Or do I understand from this discussion that I should make ties for that as well? And if me make rail ture code 250 or SVRR type of mix?


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Yea,, shaped like concrete ties...NOT.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Guess we should buy Marty a pair of new glasses or send him to track school so he knows what a concrete tie looks like. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Yea, I have been looking for a photo I have of Con-ties. But can't find it.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Marty. Take a look at your pic and then just remember not all concrete ties are made the same. May be if you straighten your hat you wouldl be able to Google (conctete tie) and see a pci. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, here the spoon feeding:















































Took 5 minutes.... you are welcome Marty.

Regards, Greg


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## SLemcke (Jun 3, 2008)

To me if they are gray they are meant to be concrete. Being I am six feet tall and if looking at someones layout with gray ties I don't think I could see much detail other than color. With the ballast added no one will know the difference. Just my opinion. 
Steve


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Marty's just giving the product a hard time... my other reference was from him ragging on me for buying an expensive brass loco that did not have a headlight... which it did... 

It's just that time of month....









Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

See Greg found some to back up his possition. The ones we see "around here" are different. 
But it is an eye opener. thanks. 
I'm still bummed because we keep getting this *&^*)&^* SNOW.......... 
I had thought of coating my ties to make them appear concrete then painting a light color. 

I'm just getting lazy ...I'm on new blood pressure meds and its wiping me out and they say I'm still not low enough.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You know we love to pull your chain Marty! 

Seriously, there seem to be many different contours.... I went out and googled, and started at the top and grabbed every picture I could find... 

There are ties with more "contour" to them, like thicker on the ends and sloping to the center. Also, the Europeans seem to have an even wider range of types. 

The thing that makes them look concrete to me, besides the color, is the smooth finish and sharper corners... put paint on woodgrain with rounded corners and I think that even at 10 feet they will looked like painted wood ties. 

Regards, Greg


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

I do not think I'd paint the wood ties as they still would not have the correct shape for the concrete ties. I think I'd buy some and as the time comes to change ties do to failures then inert. Like the real boys. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I think Mike Kidman is sending me one. The more important part is how well they hold the rail in heat and keep the gauge. 
Thanks for the info, I am inlightened. 
We are starting a restrant remodel next week. And now the temps will be 0 to 17 degrees. God I hate working in the cold like that. Opening up an end on Tuesday. 
All subs are lined up and we need to go for it. Maybe I could make train $$ from Having Disc channel fill the termoil we will go through.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, instead of "This Old House", you could call it "This Old (Freezing) Restaurant" 

Regards, Greg


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I may try using some of this rail for gaurdrails on the bridges. small screws in the foot of it. 








right is AC ties, left is AML ties.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I like it, Guard rails made from plastic as these get no wear at all. 

Easy to drill and screw in place while glue is drying!!!


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Marty all you need is now our quality ties and you are all set.









Sorry for the delay jumping in but I was on the toy fair and I am just sitting in London waiting for my flight.

A sad picture over there - unfortunately.

In terms of concrete ties modern concrete ties are all with the state of the art depressed center. Older style may have had different shapes but they all found that the picture in the following link are more and more identical around the world.

Concrete ties
Concrete ties US


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel 
So if you sale lots of this new product, maybe it will pay to make modern molds for the depressed centers.?? 
thanks for your work.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Using the tie strips and inserting your code 332 brass rail it will fit quit well and be very snug. I'm planing on using some of the tie strips to help hold the rail on my new expansion where I used a rail bender to redue curvature. Later RJD


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

The ties have a depressed center. Take a close look.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't like to be depressed.... The photo on Kidmans web site gave a better view which does show its lower in the middle, some, kinda, just a little. 
I will post photos once I get some.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Better get another eye exam Marty. Later RJD


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It's OK it's just a little depressed... we don't want to depress Marty with any depressing news about the tie depression not being depressed enough. 

Regards, Greg


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

He's a sensitive guy.


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## Trains (Jan 2, 2008)

You have to watch what you say around Marty he is very senative and can't take any kidding.


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

Thats ONLY cause you two guys are retired.......


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Er, getting back on topic, hopefully ...

I finished refitting my indoor test layout last week (8 by 10 foot loop with sidings) from code 250 aluminum to code 332 plastic. 

The method I used (freeform) involved sliding individual tie strips (LGB and Aristo) on two parallel rails, one by one. For curves, that meant bending the rail sections as I go - no bender required. A few nails through the odd sleeper into the roadbed were all that I needed to hold it all in place. 


I made cuts with an X-acto razor saw and mini miterbox, only where necessary, and left most of the ends as is. For joiners I used both slip-on and split jaw. The plastic rails mated perfectly with LGB and Aristo R1 switches.

Have to say I enjoy working with the plastic track more than any Al or brass (8 years experience). The stuff is straight when you want it to be, bends easily into perfect curves, and is nice and slippery when sliding on the sleepers. Best of all you can tweak it all over the place, even bending it back on itself, as you wrestle with your layout, and it doesn't damage.


The trains seem to like it too. So far I can detect no signs of wear on the rail (though it's early). In fact, the rails have collected an aluminum coating on top from continuously "cleaning" my rolling stock. The sound is uniquely muffled, but not bad at all.


The cost versus long-term benefits remains to be seen, but so far so good.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Ya don't even mention the garden inspector either. Later RJD


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

SEE, told you he was sensitive! LOL!!


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

I set up my 25' of plastic rail in the hallway tonight and played with it. It raised a question that I don't think has really been addressed in this thread yet: traction. If I had one of the hanging fish scale style scales, I'd hook it up and see what the loco pulled without slipping on both the plastic and metal to see what the difference is. Someone with the necessary equipment needs to try this! It could be a huge consideration for those of us who want to run LONG trains.


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting, Manco. What have you observed? I find traction to be excellent -- perhaps not straight from the box, but after a few days running the railhead feels very grippy to the fingers.


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

I really can't tell. Since I only have a 25' stretch, I can't fit a train long enough to really challenge a loco's pulling ability. I tried holding the loco back with my hand but that's impossible to measure and very subjective.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

So maybe we should have waited to see if it was an issue or not untill someone actually observed a problem ?







no traction problems with mine as of yet, im thinkin it should be better the slippery metal track.







I have a small circle set up with a freinds battery powered LGB 040 on it testing for wear.


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## Manco (Jan 5, 2009)

For those of you who've cut the tie strips to allow flex, how did you do it? Did you cut every web on one side, or did you cut every other one or did you cut every web only alternating sides? I'm trying to figure out how to cut so as allow only enough flexibility to make a smooth curve yet leave as much of the structural integrity of the strip as possible.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

How many to cut would depend on how tight a curve your lookin to do.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

When customers ask us to deliver ProTie US in flex we cut alternating sides, so 1 web on one side,then the next web over on the other side.

In terms friction, I expect the friction metal to plastic to be higher then metal to metal, but it would be an interesting test, I wish I had one of these scales to measure.


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

With such a new product, I think it's fair to note all observations. However, I'm afraid I'm not much use to this crowd vis a vis what three SD9s can pull on this rail, either, since I run only small backwoods critters. Posted By Nicholas Savatgy on 10 Feb 2010 12:15 PM 
So maybe we should have waited to see if it was an issue or not untill someone actually observed a problem ?







no traction problems with mine as of yet, im thinkin it should be better the slippery metal track.







I have a small circle set up with a freinds battery powered LGB 040 on it testing for wear.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

Matt, thanks for starting this thread. I didn't know about the plastic track before and it will work perfect on a kitbash that I am doing. I just received mine today in the mail and it is better than I thought. I am building a 1/32 Dumas PRR Tug boat and kitbashing a carfloat to go with it. The tug is 36" so to scale out to 190' the carfloat will be 8' with three sets of rails and be able to hold 12-15 rail cars . With these rails I can just glue them down to the deck and I cut the tie plates off the supplied ties and will also glue them down to look like they are bolted to the deck. I will also be able to make the end bumpers out of this track also. Thanks Jake


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## Johnn (Jan 5, 2010)

I'd like to thank Nick, He's the one that let us know that Train Li had it for sale and was kind enough to take pictues for us. Seems like he's the 1st to have all the new stuff. I ordered some myself but the after the price went up a bit, I still think it worth it.
Johnn


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## Rod Fearnley (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel is this rail going to be available in the UK? If so, from who please?
Rod F.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Axel, has been getting prices in line so that dealers can compete on prices. As you know Aristo will sell at full retail, but a dealer will be well below that. Look for a better price from a dealer.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Wish I'd been told when I bought it that you could buy the ties cut or un cut. I'd rather had mine not cut. Later RJD


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

You want to have some uncut ties? No problem. But I think we had reached out and asked the question. Because many customers were very specific, e.g. 30 feet flex, 50 feet straight. 

But we are here to help, just call us.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Axel I think at the time I got mine this had not come up and I mentioned that I would be using as display track. I just thought the track ties came flex no matter what. I found out by reading this thread that there is an option. Thanks. Later RJD


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## NTCGRR (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess this is my concrete ties for some areas of the main. High photographed areas.








Mike sent a pack to me, I used a marker to blacken the rail clamp. 
I think I like the uncut ties, i can always cut them to flex IF I need them. 
They look much better when the rail is not shiny brass.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

See i told you they looked like concrete ties ..........







nice.


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## copycats (Jan 4, 2008)

I see they have jacked up the price on this plastic rail again. It will soon be as high as aluminum or brass.


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## Nicholas Savatgy (Dec 17, 2008)

I'm glad i bought in early, My motto is you snooze you loose ? 1000 ft of track cheap............







Rememeber if you see a good deal dont wait or it will be gone.............


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Hmm? The first price, the one Nick got, was wrong... it was corrected... the first correction was 37.50 for 5 10 foot pieces... 

Now it's 34.50 for the 5 10 foot pieces... the ties are a buck a foot (quoting the bulk prices)... 

So now in bulk it's $1.75 a foot... I think the prices are actually lower since the first correction.. 

I don't see any raised prices... 

Regards, Greg


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

anyone yet try to scratchbuild a turnout with this stuff 

I read the first few and last few pages so sorry if someone has. Just wondering how well the rails machine for points


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Nobody has done that at this point in time. I think the biggest challenge will be the points. There maybe too much flex in the rail especially when you file it down.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Could just use metal for those parts.


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

For no longer that the points are going to be I'd think you may be able to make a set and not flex that much. It's worth a try. Maybe somhing I try tomorrow out in the shop. Later RJD


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

Has anyone experimented to see what kind of glue could be used? I have tried ABS and PVC cement (the kind you use for home plumbing and wiring conduit) and neither works on these rails.


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Maybe just melt them together with a soldering iron?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

i have not tried it yet but how about the 3 M plastic auto trim glue. Later RJD


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Why do you want to glue them together? If you want them as a car load in longer, we can make them longer in a type of Pizza box setting already rolled up. If oyu tell me the length you want and if other chime in what a standard length they would appreciate we can stock it.


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## mhutson (Jan 2, 2008)

Hmmmm....with longer pieces (say10-15') one could build a welded rail train. Oh, Marty?!?!?!?

Cheers,
Matt


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## Matt Z (Dec 2, 2009)

Hey guys, finally got me a box of the plastic rail. I love it, now it's time for me to figure out a tie system. Even though they are out there at a great price, the tie strips cumatively will still be a little pricey for me. I have done a lot of hand laying but here in the Az sun, it's darn near pointless. SO, it's time for alternatives. I was thinking about getting sheets of lexan and cutting ties, pvc sheets, or slicing up some 1 x 4's. After looking around and doing some shopping, the plastic's are out for me. They'll be too much money and it won't give me the result that I want. So now it's time for me to develop a NEW system for attaching ties- with no spikes or glue. 

If there's a will, there's a way- Let's hope I can find it! I'll keep you updated. 

Matt


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Just remember that the rails need to be 1320 ft in length for 1 to 1 RR so then re size for 1/29 Later RJD


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## Trains West (Oct 4, 2008)

45.5 foot long ? sounds like a long train


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## pdk (Jan 2, 2008)

My earlier comments on buying the rail in a coil, and then on glue are unrelated.


I don't want to glue the rails to one another necessarily, but it would be good to know what you can stick it to -- for making switches etc -- particularly for frogs. Buying in a coil was simply a why not.


By the way, I can report that the rail looks very nice after a light dusting of flat black, and then grey, spray paint. It looks great on real wooden ties and handspikes quite nicely in 7/8ths scale.


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## Martino (Jun 28, 2008)

Here's a photo of the colored ties and plastic rail used for display purposes.
Matching colored ties to certain trains or rolling stock could be interesting.

Not sure exactly how to attach a photo. 


http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/...onwall.jpg


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## smcgill (Jan 2, 2008)

Any one going to use it for guard rail on bridges or trestles?


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## aceinspp (Jan 2, 2008)

Nope not I as I model close to current era and most RR have removed guard rail as thy found that its an expense they can do with out. Besides they could recoup the rail and sell it to make money. Also found that in most cases it did not actually provide the safety as intended. In reality you need to use a code 250 as most RR use 90# or less for the guard rails. Later RJD


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## gsawdy (Mar 9, 2009)

Hello All,

I am bumping this thread.

I'm still in the planning stages, but I'd like to keep track ( oh my!) of on-going experiences with this plastic rail. The summer is winding down and I'm wondering if this is a viable option for battery or live steam layouts. So has anyone really given it a test? What were your experiences?

I'm also curious to know what roadbed was used--hand laid, Aristo, etc. For my own consideration reliability/maintenance are most important, but economy is also right up there.

George


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

I attached the plastic track to hardyboard [no ties] using "Shoe Goo" and a pin nailer. I cut a piece of wood 45mm in width for a guide while glueing and nailing. Aristo/USA joiners were used between the adjoining rails. Split Jaw and Hillman joiners have also been used successfully with the plastic rail. See Storrage Yard-shed , pictures #12-14, for how it came out. So far, it has lasted all summer [one of our hottest] without problems.

Jim Carter


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## gsawdy (Mar 9, 2009)

Posted By pimanjc on 03 Sep 2010 06:40 PM 
I attached the plastic track to hardyboard [no ties] using "Shoe Goo" and a pin nailer. I cut a piece of wood 45mm in width for a guide while glueing and nailing. Aristo/USA joiners were used between the adjoining rails. Split Jaw and Hillman joiners have also been used successfully with the plastic rail. See Storrage Yard-shed , pictures #12-14, for how it came out. So far, it has lasted all summer [one of our hottest] without problems.

Jim Carter


Jim, Thank you for the reply--quite a train shed you have there with lots of interesting ideas--out of the box thinking!

I'm curious about the pin nailer. Do you nail through the foot of the rail or does the pin have a head that just catches the foot? Would these pins go into (and hold over time) something like TREX. I guess I'd expect Hardi board to chip and not hold pins on anything but flat usage. Does the rest of your layout use Hardiboard under the rail? Perhaps if you can tell me the specifications of the pins you are using I can check it out at Lowes or HD. I have an air power stapler that came with my cheapo compressor--don't know if it will drive pins.

George


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

George,
"I'm curious about the pin nailer. Do you nail through the foot of the rail or does the pin have a head that just catches the foot?" I used a cheap pin nailer from Harbor Freight with 5/8 in pins. The process was to lay down a bead of "goo" over a drawn line, then put the track in place. Throughly press the track into the glue with the spacing guide in place. Then, pin nails are driven through the foot of the rail about every three inches. All the pins really do is secure the rail while the glue dries and prevent any lateral movement. I did not have any problems with the pins chipping the hardyboard. Maybe the glue helped.

" Would these pins go into (and hold over time) something like TREX?" This process should work fine on Trex or other composite/vinyl/pvc type lumber.

"Does the rest of your layout use Hardiboard under the rail?" The rest of my layout uses reinforced concrete roadbed, "neverrot" plastic lumber ladder, Plastic lumber underlayment, and gravel ballast roadbed, depending on the location, elevation, and/or going over tree roots . 

I use a mix of .332 brass, aluminum, and Train-LI plastic track on the layout. Counting the storage shed, about 120 out of the approximately 500 feet of track are plastic.

Hope this helps.

JimC.


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## bdp3wsy (Mar 14, 2008)

I used Sinbad glue on my 8' 3 track car float. Worked great. I glued them down to the deck of the float then cut off the cleats from the ties and glued them to the rail and deck, this was for looks only. Jake


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Here is a summary of feedback we have received:

1. Track has sustained live steam and battery power on exhibitions with no sign of wear
2. No breakdown of the rail outside.
3. When mounted on a very long stretch stuck between solid mounted brass rail, the heat expansion curved the track slightly. I recommended expansion joints so that the expansion has room to go.
4. No discoloring or deformation of the PVC (I mean I wouldn't expect any)
5. ProTies US are very liked in general, but in particular for the plastic rail becasue of the build in joiners.
6. Customers who order the ties pre-cut (for flex track) wish they would have ordered them uncut so that they could more selectively make the cuts. The reason for this is, that plastic rail has much more flex than Brass rail. Therefore a straight section benefits from the extra support of uncut tie strips. Large curve don't require cuts every other tie, they also increase in stability.
7. Customers with small crusher fines were able to use extra long deck screws to "tighten" the rails down to the ground while also clamping rail together. the correct method was to first tie down the end and have the rail flex itself into position, then stake the track bed every couple of feet with extra deck screws. On firm roadbed short deck screws due the trick.
8. I have seen in a previous post that pin nailing the rail to a firm wood support worked as well. Personally I am surprised, because of the report under Item 3. But I don't know each of the detailed conditions.

Last not least, I did a couple of tests. I kinked the rails horizontally and vertically. I used manual force and bend the rail basically into a ninety degree angle. During the bending you will see that the PVC coloring is getting at the point of impact and once you get the discoloring, you have overstretched one side of the PVC and you will not be able to recover. I did this also over the rail foot. This was actually much harder, indicating that if the track is properly supported it is not easy to kink it on the ground. But with any force I succeeded discoloring it as well. Would this happen while properly handling the rail? Can I kink a 5' piece of rail by holding it at both ends and make a tight circle.

The easy answer is NO. I bend the rail into a tighter radius than our engines and rolling stock would be able to handle without kink. I have also noticed that if the track is for a longer time in one position it finally has some "memory", but can be easily bend in the opposite direction if change is required.

So if you NEVER go track power it seems that our ProTrack Display will stand the test of time. Since the ties are the same as for the metal rails, if really something happens replace the section. $.50/foot this is really not a huge cost factor. You can re buy 3 times the entire rail before you have reached the cost of brass rail. With that said, this still will leave the need for Metal switches. The flex of the rail is not conducive for points made of this. But if there is interest I could investigate what a mixed solution would save in money?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Axel, just to clarify, when you talk about "pre-cut" ties, you don't mean cutting to length, but the fact that the web between successive ties is not pre-cut at the factory to allow flexing. 

Some customers preferred that they cut the web between ties at their own preferred intervals, and purchased the tie strips in longer lengths? 

Is this all correct? 

Thanks, Greg


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

All of the track shown on the right leg in this picture is Train-Li plastic. The USA style ties are screwed down to the ladder roadbed and aluminum screenwire underneath. I cut the ties myself and varied the spacing of the cuts. The curve diameter is 8ft. The black ties and rail were painted with Krylon Camo Brown to give a more weathered look before ballasting.
A good solid foundation is necessary for the ties to sit on. The plastic rails will make any roadbed imperfections more evident since the plastic has more flex vertically than brass rail.
As seen, my layout is heavily shaded, so expansion is not a significant problem.The track was laid with temperatures in the mid-90s. It will be interesting to see if I have contraction problems this winter when it gets below 0F.










The roadbed on the left run is 3 1/2" thick reinforced concrete [ala Marty Cozad], with 4ft sections of brass rail bent with the Train-Li dual railbender. It was kind of nice not having to forcefully bend the rail while laying the track on the right side run of the WYE. I just put it in place and screwed it down.

Until I run out of the 500 ft. of rail I bought [about half left = 150ft of track], I will continue to use the plastic rail other than switch locations.

JimC.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Are these Adobe style houses inside the mountain - Cool


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 05 Sep 2010 10:07 AM 
Axel, just to clarify, when you talk about "pre=-cut" ties, you don't mean cutting to length, but the fact that the web between successive ties is not pre-cut at the factory to allow flexing. 

Some customers preferred that they cut the web between ties at their own preferred intervals, and purchased the tie strips in longer lengths? 

Is this all correct? 

Thanks, Greg 
Greg, I mean the web between successive ties. No tie strips come only in 1 foot length. So customers like to cut the web at their intervals versus every other interval or don't even cut at all for straight sections so that you have more stability.


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## gsawdy (Mar 9, 2009)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 05 Sep 2010 11:26 AM 

"Greg, I mean the web between successive ties. No tie strips come only in 1 foot length. So customers like to cut the web at their intervals versus every other interval or don't even cut at all for straight sections so that you have more stability."


But Greg does bring up a good point, why not make the tie strips longer? The rail is 5',why not the tie strip? and even longer than 5'? I'd guess shipping limits for extra length charges would be the limitation. Or can the tie strips be rolled up vertically and packaged in a thick pizza box for economical bulk rail purchases. This stuff is so much more flexible than traditional metal rail that there is really no reason to be bound by the historical 1' tie strip. I'm thinking the extra stability of longer tie strips far outweighs the very slight hassles of cutting a few/some inter-tie webs with a diagonal cutter as you go along laying roadbed.

Reading your report on feedback to date: I'd suggest that dealing with the expansion/contraction issue is more important than building switches. For folks that can do their own spiking the flex rail works fine for the outer curved and through rails. Metal points and frogs can be purchased. Whats left is just a little bit of short rail (metal or plastic) spiking. Maybe you should offer some longer individual ties for people to do this.

George

Edit: The more I think about long tie strips and stability, the more sense it makes IMHO. It gives the operations foreman the choice of cutting the inner webs on a curve or the outer or both. Leaving the outer webs intact would mean that the ties would be too close together on the inside of the curve but the outside rail will have max support/stability for that 200 mph LS K27 hurtling around the layout. LOL George


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## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

I'll chime in here with an educated geuss....The tie strips are injection molded where as the rail is extruded. The extrusion die is much cheaper versus the die for the tie strips. A die that is 5 foot or longer would be a huge die set and require a MUCH larger macine and present other problems with the plastic injecting completely and cooling at different rates as it was injected. 
So a smaller Tie strip is demanded by the cost of the tooling. The extrusion die I'm geussing is relatively inexpensive compared to the injection die. Although the Extruding machine may be more expensive than the Injection molding machine they are likely pretty similar in cost depending on size. 

Chas


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Cost......Cost and Cost and fluid dynamics.

The longer the form the higher the cost the more difficult it is to distribute the plastic into every area of the form, the more distribution channel hookups you need and the bigger the mold injection machine is the more expensive the production becomes. These bigger machines cost exponentially much more, and have less application then the smaller ones, so the amortization cost per production unit is much higher then with the smaller machines.

Rail doesn't have the problem because it is extruded, not molded.

Sorry this is a no go, becasue nobody would be willing to pay $4 or $5 per foot (up from $1 foot).

However, I have a ProTie swiss that endlessly interlocks (it has hook and loops at each end to you can put the together in very long stretches if you desire.


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## flats (Jun 30, 2008)

I don't see anything wrong with the 1ft ties, most people secure them in 1ft distance anyway 
except me about all of mine are floating.


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## Dave Ottney (Jan 2, 2008)

Jim, 
The pueblos in the cave remind me of those found in Mesa Verde!! Anxious to hear how the plastic track hold up. 
Dave


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## pimanjc (Jan 2, 2008)

Dave,
The pueblo buildings were modeled after a mix of Mesa Verde, and Manatou Springs. The clifts surrounding the pueblos were modeled after Mesa Verde from pictures I took there two summers ago.

So we don't derail this thread, for more detail on the dwellings, the construction is shown in detail in my 2010 Expansion thread : 2010 HARG Expansion p.7 starting with picture # 71.

I also look forward to seeing how the plastic rail holds up over time..... especially when I use the snow plow on it.

JimC.


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## gsawdy (Mar 9, 2009)

You are right I wouldn't be interested in tie strip at $4/ft. Thank you both for the explanations of the actual production process. Live and learn, George


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

I was surprised to see the Train-Li booth at the ECLSTS. Having just ordered repair parts for one of the LGB 2-4-0 American engines, I had to stop in and thank Axel. Unfortunately he was busy with another customer, and in my rush to see the rest of the booths I didn't get to return to TL to talk to him. However, I DID see the plastic rail at the booth, and was VERY interested by it. Like others, I was manly thinking of building a continuous welded-rail train. Though, while a 45' train would wonderful, I am a bit more realistic and thought of an 8-10 flatcar train.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Too bad, I would have loved to talk to you, hopefully the next time.

For your application I sell the Plastic rail in up to 18' length. It is being shipped in a pizza box right after your order, and after you receive it you can immediately unpack it and the rails will straighten out again. 18' is long enough for a 8-10 car flat car set.


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## gsawdy (Mar 9, 2009)

Well, I guess this has become the "official" plastic rail thread. I just received my order of 200' of display track which will be my "operating" track. It will be my only track and used for live steam. This is a new venture for me--bought a used Frank S. (Anybody running live steam near Fall River or New Bedford MA?) and Axel's track. I plan to lay it out on the grass and give it a go, after I finish the HoneyDo list. 

I'll keep you posted,

George


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

Axel,

How likely is it that you also will produce code 215 or 250 plastic rail? At least untill you "feel the market", producing your own matching tie strips wouldn't really be necessary, since a lot of others make them (and you could start by just reselling some). Stick to standard measurements though! Not like the homebrewed "narrow base" Llagas Creek code 250, with a base of 5mm, wich of course is the normal one for code 215. If you decide to make code 250, apply the standard base width. (I don't remeber if it's 6mm or something...) If you decide on code 215, design the spikehead as clever as Peco! Their gauge one track is only code 185 or 200 - yet all narrow gauge (LGB or any other) models that we run in Stockholm Livesteamers run on this track! This doesn't work on my Maerklin code 215!


As a livesteamer in 1:32, on code 332 rail, it just looks awful in my eyes. But at a fraction of the cost of brass, stainless - or even aluminium! - I can't help considering using your all-plastic track for some stretches. (Though all my switches are code 215) I've actually been wanting plastic track for years!


Maybee asking the livesteamers, you could get an estimation on how "big" code 215/250 live-steam & battery, is compared to code 332.


I hope your sales on plastic track is good! I think it's the future.

Regards,

Anders Grassman
member of Stockholm Livesteamers


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I am considering code 250, should it be 5mm or 6mm rail foot? How many feet are you and potentially your friends interested in?

And everybody else - chime in.

Kind regards
Axel


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## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

SVRR code 250 is 6mm base. It will fit in their ties, or the code 250 AML ties.


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## Pauli (Jan 3, 2008)

Axel,

Assuming pricing much like the code 332, a suitable first order for me would be 150 foot rail & tie strips.

I have another idea, that I really think you should investigate. I think it is entirely likely, that your plastic rail, could be conductively coated with for example nickel. Since you offer nickel plated brass, you already know that such a plating doesn't chip when you bend rail. I expect that would hold true also for nickel plated plastic rail, within reason. I think such plated plastic rail for the track power market, would still be cheaper than aluminium rail, and certainly only a fraction of the cost of brass or ss. Also, it would be conductivly superior to aluminium, brass or nickel silver.

Finally, it might even be possible, though I really don't know, to nickel plate only the running surface of the plastic rail, adding yet another argument to go plastic.. If this is possible, the track would also have a superior realistic look, combined with huge price savings over the alternatives. If that wouldn't rock the market for track, I don't know what would! Actually, I would like this just for the looks, since I don't plan on ever operating track power. (Only plating the running surface requires figuring out a new way of electrically joining rail sections, if track power also is an objective.)

That sayed, I will buy a smaller code plastic rail in any case, with or without nickel plating.

Regards,

Anders Grassman

P.S. Maybee offering something along the lines of Llagas "Rail blender" castings = code transitional adapters, would be nice.


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## ConrailRay (Jan 2, 2008)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); Pauli,


Sticking with the 1/32 conversion of code 250 = 155lb and code 215=130lb rail, according to the rail charts I've looked at, 130lb base is nominally 6" and 155lb is stated at 6-3/4". However if a manufacture made rails with different width bases, then they would need to make different tie strips, and these are the expensive molds that wouldn't be economical to produce for each rail size given the volume of sales, which is probably why Llagas normalized there rail base widths. If SVRR were to come out with smaller rail, I'm sure they would make the base fit their current tie strips...


Also, I did some quick testing a few years back because I wanted 110lb rail, and Llagas 1/32 tie strips _should_ be able to handle smaller code rail to a certain size without the spike heads interfering, but there's a lot of manufactures wheels with different depth flanges out there, and you'd have to have your own rail extruded.


-Ray


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## SE18 (Feb 21, 2008)

These plastic rails would make a neat unit train loaded with long sections of rails (assuming they bend easily) 

Dave


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think it's been done, I believe there is a thread here somewhere showing it. 

Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By SE18 on 08 Nov 2010 05:43 AM 
These plastic rails would make a neat unit train loaded with long sections of rails (assuming they bend easily) 

Dave For that purpose we sell the in 18' length order code MGR-5001L (10 pcs in a pizzabox). $ 105. We need to roll it up, otherwsie we can't ship it at all.


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 09 Nov 2010 07:26 AM 
Posted By SE18 on 08 Nov 2010 05:43 AM 
These plastic rails would make a neat unit train loaded with long sections of rails (assuming they bend easily) 

Dave For that purpose we sell the in 18' length order code MGR-5001L (10 pcs in a pizzabox). $ 105. We need to roll it up, otherwsie we can't ship it at all.



Silly question time--- When it is rolled up, if you look down on the circles of rail, is it standing on the foot or on its side; and if on its side, is the foot toward the inside or the outside?

Also, is that $105.00 for 180-ft. of rail (90-ft. of track [sans ties])?


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Semper:

It is rolled up with the foot down.

And yes it is for the total of 180' of rail (track doesn't count here for the rail laying train since that train is carrying only rails)

Let me know if you have any further questions.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I think it's rolled sideways, like how track is on a curve, not up or down like a roller coaster. 

I had to think about what you asked Semp, sort of confusing. 

Of course I could be wrong.. 

Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

So to be more clear (hopefully) 

Lay down the rail with the rail foot on the ground, roll up now the rail - that's how it is shipped. Rolling it otherwise doesn't work because of the rail web.


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## Red Box Guy (Nov 19, 2016)

Does anyone still have any of this plastic track out on their mainline and what is their experience of it?

From other posts I gather that there can be problems with 'track wiggle' due to expansion/contraction, and that the wiggles can get locked in. Also track adhesion is less than for brass and thus there can be issues on grades.

I was considering using the material for a new battery powered line.

Does a anyone have comments through real experience about:

UV resistance.
Wear and Tear.
Fragility.
Other.

I have real problems with brass track fixed to recycled plastic ladder frame. Since the plastic in the frame expands more than the brass the track tends to pull apart in hot weather. If I had plastic track on the plastic ladder frame maybe the expansion/contraction of the track and ladder would be better matched and there would be less issues?


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## CliffyJ (Apr 29, 2009)

I'd expect the expansion rates would really differ between the (plastic) rail and ladder frame, because plastics expand differently, and I think the greatly different cross sections would affect things as well. Note that the plastic rail is inherently flexible (see Axel's description of how they ship it: rolled up), much more so than brass.

Also, the Train Li plastic rail is marketed as being for display, and I'd be surprised if they commended it for outdoor running purposes. But you could call Axel, he'd be the one to answer your specific questions about it.

If you already have the brass track though, a different (less rigid) approach to securing it to the ladder might help, and perhaps expansion joints in the rail. 

Maybe someone has suggestions on repairing broken tie chairs / spikes. The thought that comes to my mind is getting flex track ties strips and inserting those where there are breaks. Need to check compatibility though. The Train Li strips have the same dimensions as, say, LGB.

My 2 cents,
Cliff


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Jim Carter put some of it in on his mainline and there are posts on this, as well as pictures and I think a video somewhere.

The expansion rate was severe, and could cause problems in strong sunlight. Also, it is slippery especially when wet.

I would consider very carefully, and make sure you are using full floating track in ballast. No grades, flat only.

Greg


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Have we resurrected another 6-year-old thread? Does Train-Li still sell the plastic track?


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Yes, we still have the plastic rail.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I can tell you that the Trainli plastic rail is marketed for display purposes, however, several TIE colors are uv protected and others are not, so using this at a window or outdoors you need to get the UV protected TIE colors.
One use for track powered people is a storage track would turn off the lights and electronics in cars when sitting on plastic rail, no need for special wiring.

If you buy a box of American ties, the best price would be a box of 100. These come in packs of 10 and are straight. I use a band saw while ties are in the packs and cut every other tie connector to make flex track.


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## 1111 (Oct 20, 2008)

I have used the Train-Li track outdoors on a small section of the layout. My experience has been that if I use the ties rigid versus cut (the cut on the webbing to make it easier to curve) the plastic rail and ties perform well. When I used the cut ties the rail bent out of shape in the sun. Note, I only used the plastic rails on a few turnouts. The plastic ties have been in use with brass rail (code 332) for 6 years now elsewhere on the layout and have been performing very well. I have replaced Aristocraft ties as they have become brittle. I currently use a mix Train-Li and LGB ties on my 332 brass rails.


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

I put in a 100 ft section of plastic rail and put screws in every 1 ft the track didn't move side to side, but it started to bend upward on really hot days.


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## Zonk (Feb 20, 2008)

Hey guys, 

I've got 450 linear feet this track in a box. I also have a box full of the tie strips from train-li as well. 

Some of the track and tie strips had been used but are still in great condition. 

Anyone interested? I am located near Sun City, Arizona for pick up and it could be shipped as well if desired. 

Please shoot me a message. 

Thanks

Matt


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## Robby D (Oct 15, 2009)

Its great for indoor yards on a battery powered layout


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