# LGB HSB Köf - finally pretty much ready........



## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

....and shown at the Intermodellbau fair in Dortmund Germany:
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=1582&l=english


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks good! Too new and too big for me. (Is that a good or bad thing tho?)


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

I love the look of it, but the price for an engine that small is just way to eye-wateringly high for me.


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 17 Apr 2010 11:43 PM 
I love the look of it, but the price for an engine that small is just way to eye-wateringly high for me. Good job you didn't look at the already-available brass version from another well-known German manufacturer of high-quality 1/22.5 scale models - IIRC it was nigh-on $3000.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I don't find the LGB pricing that terrible. 
Just over 300 Euros including the 19% German VAT. 
Even the Höhne metal version just sold for 1250 Euros: 
http://cgi.ebay.at/Magnus-Hoehne-IIm-HSB-Koe-199012-6-Gelb-OVP-/220578607695


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Really not bad at all! If one thinks large scale is high, look at the price hikes w/HO for a real shocker! The days of $40 P2K diesels from your B&M hobby shop are LONG gone.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Despite the price hikes of LGB (look at the prices of the coming F7) I think we need to understand that there are no shortcuts in life. You get what you pay for. You take a cheap Chinese motor that cost $2 are you put a Buehler motor in which will set you back $25 (est. price to LGB). The more detailing you put on the engine, the more forms you have to make. But on the average you have to calculate that a new form will cost you a minimum 1/4 million dollar (yes even in China). Now how many models can you make out of that form? 2000 - 4000. At 2000 you have base form cost 125 per model and at 4000 you still have $75. You can reduce costs when using "flat" molds, such as Kiss, then you can half this (approximately).

Now if you add everything else in you can easily see that you have costs of $300 or more (and you are only on the lower end if you have a minimum of 2000 pieces).

So we need to adjust our expectations, a $250 engine is a toy - $600 is giving you better quality. I wish, however, that the production wouldn't be so China heavy. If you can build a good quality car in North Carolina (BMW, Mercedes) then we should be able to produce a quality product for the right price also here in the US. I am actually thinking that some of the cost is overinflated prices by the mold makers.


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

All I'm saying is that $600 bucks is simply an economic no joy for alot of us.









I could wait and save a year for this but then for less than $200 I can find several other items on the market that can do the same job. I'm just trying to say that it seams like this recent trend towards ever higher priced mass market items is pricing alot of people out of the hobby, I mean come on, $600+ for a 2 axle mass produced _ plastic_ model? for only a $100 more I can get a hand-made *brass model* from Missouri Model Works of anyone of 3 incredible locomotive models. Another example being the $600+ Bachmann Forney, $450 more for whats essentially a $150 Sidetanker with an extra truck and a fuel bunker? I mean seriously....









I could continue with other examples, I know some of it has to do with increased production costs in a changing world but I think some it has a lot more to do with some of the proprietary electronics that ALL engines are now getting stuffed into them whether we want them or not, and I'm wondering whether some of it has to do simply with trying to squeeze as high a profit margin as they can out of whats percieved as a "deep pocket" hobby. LGB has never been cheap but they did make an effort to produce affordable items at one time, this has evaporated under Marklin who have never been considered "affordable".










I'm just saying its a steep price for whats essentially a plastic engine. As beautifully detailed as it is, I'm see the Marklinization of LGB beginning with this model, namely higher level of detail and accuracy, with a corresponding increase in price as a result of it, that all. Remember when LGB got bought by Marklin I predicted LGB under their ownership could become a high-priced beautique brand beyond the reach of most people? Seams I wasn't too far off, at least in terms of new products.


Now if you can afford a KOS - go for it, its a great looking engine







, the rest of us will just have to enjoy watching the videos of it on Youboobtube.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By vsmith on 19 Apr 2010 08:53 AM 
All I'm saying is that $600 bucks is simply an economic no joy for alot of us.











Before everyone is left with the impression that this engine costs $600.-
I just checked with one US website that has the price for this engine listed - it's $435.-
Still not cheap but a long way from $600.-
http://www.pizzatrains.com/lgb-trains.html


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

As with most things, you get what you pay for. I would rather have fewer high quality well engineered engines or cars than many that are essentially junk after a few years. The price of $435 seems reasonable. I personally am happy with the direction Maerklin is taking LGB--higher level of detail for a fair price. 

Keith


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 19 Apr 2010 04:49 AM I wish, however, that the production wouldn't be so China heavy. If you can build a good quality car in North Carolina (BMW, Mercedes) then we should be able to produce a quality product for the right price also here in the US. I am actually thinking that some of the cost is overinflated prices by the mold makers. Sir the website article states that this model is made in Hungary, not China.

OT, but the first two Mercedes-Benz ML's we had were built in the Alabama plant - the reason we are now on our third such car. We love 'em to bitz.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac, I think that was in general terms, maybe not the specific model? Me, I am running into several Mfgrs. that are bringing stuff back to the US for assorted reasons, costs being one. 

$435....hmm, cheaper than what dad is paying for a recent run of HO plastic and diecast stuff! 

But trains are a Rich Man's hobby. I equate it to the costs of stuff in my old European car days. The funny bit was the complaining population you would encounter at meets and shows where we drove our Mercedes, Volvos, Alfas, Citroens, Rovers, etc. showed up in a 1980s Ford Fairmont. They would rather have their "car" as yard art than put a penny into it or sell it to someone who would do something with it. 

The VW guys were the worst for whatever reason......


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 19 Apr 2010 12:38 PM 
Posted By vsmith on 19 Apr 2010 08:53 AM 
All I'm saying is that $600 bucks is simply an economic no joy for alot of us.











Before everyone is left with the impression that this engine costs $600.-
I just checked with one US website that has the price for this engine listed - it's $435.-
Still not cheap but a long way from $600.-
http://www.pizzatrains.com/lgb-trains.html 


90% of the places I visit listed at or near the higher price, thats the lowest I've seen yet, takes it out of the "No-Joy" to 'maybe-after-tax-refund" zone


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

By the time you have found out the cheapest retailer for a plastic loco which might hit the markt or not some day, you have assembled a kit of this loco. 

http://www.fgb-berlin.de/galerie/details.php?image_id=2983 

Have Fun 

Juergen / Fritz


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

...and FGB always had better looking crew members than LGB's Hunchback Stainz Hans....


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## GrizzlyFlatsFan (Jan 5, 2008)

Those are pretty good looking crew members. Do you have those available, Axel?

Oh, how much does the loco kit go for, and does the crew come with it?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

FGB has a full line, you can order direct, but they are around $30US each.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 22 Apr 2010 04:56 AM 
FGB has a full line, you can order direct, but they are around $30US each.


I have a few,
All hand made and very nice,
And the shorter the skirt the higher the price, just like in real life.

-- just kidding on the price, they are all priced the same since they all have the same length skirt I suppose.


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