# How Long Should It Run??



## Steamer Bill (Nov 22, 2010)

Hello all,
I am new to the Live Steam hobby and have just purchased my first engine which is an Accucraft 2-4-4 Forney. I have not run it on track yet, but have been using rollers to learn how to manipulate the controls before jumping on track.

My question is this. About how long should this engine run on a load of butane? What are those of you that have this engine getting for run time including the initial steam up? Conditions are temperatures in the low 70's and minimal wind. 


Thanks in Advance,
Bill in Cypress, Texas


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Bill: Welcome to the collective









That engine should go 15 minutes, after warmed up. Probably run out of fuel and water about the same time.

Post some pics and vids of the first running.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Bill, 
be careful. The Accucraft Forney is one of the few engines, where the water may run out before the fuel. So if the loco starts to slow down after 10..15min, check water level and/or turn off the gas. Don't ask me, why I know this... 
Regards


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Remember, if an engine stops dead, it's out of water, if it slows down and stops, it's out of fuel. Just a general rule of thumb to follow.


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, 
my Forney actually started to slow down, as the heating surface decreased. As you know, the Accucraft locos have burners where the flames point downwards and so are less prone to damage due to lack of water. Fortunately I caught the problem before harm was done. 
Regards


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Henner - my impression, bearing in mind that I only have five gas-fired AccuCraft steamers, not one of which is a Ruby or derivative - is that the burners burn UPWARDS, not downwards. All I see when I look into the smokebox after lighting up is a blue arch OVER the burner. Is the Ruby style loco different in this respect? Or are all my locos incorrectly set-up? 

Best 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac, 
we just opened up a Ruby and the burner is pointing downwards. I did not check my Forney as I had to remove the chuffer, but from what I remember I am pretty sure it is also upside down. May be Accucraft changed the configuration at some point to make the operation safer. As I said, during one of the first runs of my Forney it gradually got slower until I realized that the water was gone (the Forney has a water gauge). 
Regards


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## rdamurphy (Jan 3, 2008)

Excuse my ignorance, I've only ever seen a live-steamer once, for a few moments, but if you run out of water, do you have to wait for the boiler to cool down before you can refill it? Do the tenders carry water and replenish the boiler, using injectors or some other system, or do you just have the water in the boiler to work off of? 

The loco I observed used alcohol, I believe? 

Robert


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## jfrank (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tacfoley on 17 Dec 2010 04:55 AM 
Henner - my impression, bearing in mind that I only have five gas-fired AccuCraft steamers, not one of which is a Ruby or derivative - is that the burners burn UPWARDS, not downwards. All I see when I look into the smokebox after lighting up is a blue arch OVER the burner. Is the Ruby style loco different in this respect? Or are all my locos incorrectly set-up? 

Best 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund 

Tac, all Accucraft locomotives have the burners installed with the open slots pointed downward. When you look into the smoke box door of course the flame is going upward as that is how gas burns. Contrary to this, my pearse engine has the burner installed with the open slots pointed upwards. It has also had a clogged superheater pipe. I do not know how Roundhouse does it.
jf


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 18 Dec 2010 05:17 PM 
Excuse my ignorance, I've only ever seen a live-steamer once, for a few moments, but if you run out of water, do you have to wait for the boiler to cool down before you can refill it? Do the tenders carry water and replenish the boiler, using injectors or some other system, or do you just have the water in the boiler to work off of? 

The loco I observed used alcohol, I believe? 

Robert 
Robert,
There is nothing wrong with not being familiar with live steam.
You are basically correct with your thought, if there is no other way to get water into the boiler, then you have to wait until there is no pressure before taking out a filler opening somewhere to put water in.
However many locos are now fitted with other methods.
The easiest is what is called a Goodall valve, This replaces the filler cap and allows you to inject water into the boiler against the boiler pressure using some kind of a 'squirt' bottle.
The more expensive locos will have hand pumps, either in the tender (if there is one), or on board if it is a tank engine, or even a separate trackside one that you connect to, to pump water.
Larger locos will also have axle driven pumps so that the water is being constantly replenished while running.
I hope that this means you are thinking of getting into live steam.
All the best,
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Semper Vaporo (Jan 2, 2008)

If you run out of water it is "best" to shut off the fire and let the boiler cool before adding water. The sudden injection of cold (relatively) water on the fire hot boiler shell could cause cracking of the joints and such.

Some engines do carry water in the tender and there is a pump on one axle that continously draws water from the tender. This water is either immediately returned to the tender through an open valve (known as the "Bypass Valve". Or if the valve is closed, then the pressure from the pump is against a Check Valve to the boiler and the water is pumped into the boiler. The Bypass Valve is called that because it allows the pumped water to "bypass" the Check Valve and return to the tender. Some people claim to be able to adjust the Bypass Valve to "just the right point" that a small amount of the water is still forced into the boiler to replenish the same amount lost in steam due to running the engine. There are some people that have made a miniature Injector for their machine but real injectors are quite finicky in operation and miniaturizing them compounds the problems and they do not work realiably enough to make them worthwhile.

Other people use an external supply of water and a Check Valve on the boiler (one particular design is known as a " Goodall" valve after the man that invented it) that a manually operated pump attaches to so they can add water when needed (but are admonished to never do so if the boiler has run dry and is still hot!)


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## HMeinhold (Jan 2, 2008)

The exception is, when you accidentally (or stupidly like me) almost completely run out of water. In this case you should let the boiler cool down until you refill. Otherwise the first drops of water flash into steam which could cause all kinds of problems like collapsed flues. 
Regards


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By rdamurphy on 18 Dec 2010 05:17 PM 
Excuse my ignorance, I've only ever seen a live-steamer once, for a few moments, but if you run out of water, do you have to wait for the boiler to cool down before you can refill it? Do the tenders carry water and replenish the boiler, using injectors or some other system, or do you just have the water in the boiler to work off of? 

The loco I observed used alcohol, I believe? 

Robert 

First off Robert, welcome to the Live Steam group. The locie you saw may have been alcohol. Alcohol was, at one time, a very widely used fuel. Although still used, butane gas is probably more common now. 
Live steam locomotives certainly come in varying degrees of complexity. From very simple boiler to motor, to all the accessories and mechanisms found on the real thing. And different scales, and themes. That's the fun thing about this hobby, there are so many options. 

Steam locomotives have personalities too. Most of the time they fire up and run hard. They know what to do and do it well. Sometimes they get stubborn too, they get snooty and need a time out. Then they straighten up and run right. We have way more fun then the electric guys.

See if your local garden gauge club has a live steam group. Go hang around and see what they are doing. You might get hooked.

Bob


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By jfrank on 18 Dec 2010 05:48 PM 


Tac, all Accucraft locomotives have the burners installed with the open slots pointed downward. When you look into the smoke box door of course the flame is going upward as that is how gas burns. Contrary to this, my pearse engine has the burner installed with the open slots pointed upwards. It has also had a clogged superheater pipe. I do not know how Roundhouse does it.
jf


Ah. OK. I guess you learn something new every day. Thanks for that, John.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Here is one you can watch run

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F45...r_embedded


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

...and here's another one [mine] with Geoff Calver in his natty cut-offs..... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuZa...re=related 

and my ACR NG/G16 Beyer-Garratt, without Geoff...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73u6gVxbBc4

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

and these videos have 'what' to do with how long an Accucraft Forney runs? 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, Mr Grinch, it's like this, Mr Livesteam53 and I were showing a keen enquiring newcomer how a steam locomotive runs. Sheeeeeesh. 

Season of Good Will? 

Bah, Humbug. 

tac 
www.ovgrs.org 
Supporter of the Cape Meares Lighthouse Restoration Fund


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## David Leech (Dec 9, 2008)

Well Son, 
Robert had actually only asked about getting water into the boiler, not for videos of trains running, and it's nothing to do with the original question. 
I am sorry, but your attitude and taking this thread off topic has earned you nothing in your stocking, but a piece of coal! 
Mind you, if it is Welsh, you will probably be VERY happy, so that's not much of a punishment after all. 
Have a good Christmas Tac, 
All the best, 
David Leech, Delta, Canada


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## Steamer Bill (Nov 22, 2010)

Well...

Now that you ask.

I started this topic. I am also new to live steam. I also just bought a Goodall Valve and "Squirt" bottle for my engine, and I am trying to learn how to run all of it.

So, while it may not be exactly right on topic, I sure am learning some good stuff..

Thanks guys for all the information.

Merry Christmas and Good Steam!!!


Bill in Cypress, Texas


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

Bill, 

Here is what you could maybe do is come to Diamondhead, MS for the 2011 steamup Jan 16-22 for some knowledge. Here is where you meet some real experts. 

http://www.diamondhead.org/ 

The other is the bunch in the Houston area maybe we can get you hookup with a few or them for some steaming. 

Ok, Texan's jump in anytime.


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## Steamer Bill (Nov 22, 2010)

Thanks for the thought. Unfortunately I will be working. But...

I have joined Houston Area Live Steamers . Pretty cool place, I must say.


Bill in Cypress, Texas


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