# 25 Years later getting back in - Transformer Question



## denon (Sep 29, 2016)

I am trying to get back into the hobby after nearly 25 years. I had mostly HO but before I got out I started to collect some G gauge. Fast forward to today and my son (11) and I pulled out of storage what I had. I have an LGB Daisy locomotive, a few passenger cars, box cars and a 4ft diameter track (12 pcs). I would love to set up the train for Christmas/indoor track and am searching for some #1000 pieces. What I am missing is a transformer. 

I do have a Tech II 2400 unit from my HO set. Would this be able to power the set? It seems it does have a smoker...how would I get this to work?

We have dreams of setting up a garden railroad one day and I think if we did we would investigate going battery as we race RC cars and am pretty familiar with batteries and charging.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Voltage is probably too low for the speeds you want. Voltage is almost surely too low to get good smoke.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

For the Daisy to run well, you need at least 18 volts. Any thing higher than that on a 4 foot diameter would be too fast.
NOTE: that engine has a 24 volt motor but only 18 volt lights and smoke. Running it on more than 20 volts will shorten the smoke unit life and burn out lights!!


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## denon (Sep 29, 2016)

Thank you for the information. Looks like I have some research ahead of me as I look to purchase another transformer. 

Thanks again


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## jimhoot (Mar 21, 2015)

denon

Join a local club and you can get the local help you will need.
Were are you located?
Our local club has been the best help I could ask for over the last 2 years. ( OGRS )


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Denon.

Welcome back to the hobby and to MLS.

In purchasing a transformer, a couple of things to consider.

1st. What are your future plans? If bigger locomotives and a bigger layout is being considered, look to buy a larger transformer or power supply like Bridgewerks now. This will save you having to buy a second transformer or power supply later.
2nd. Don't worry about buying a 20-24 volt transformer or power supply as you will have a throttle control which regulates the amount of voltage getting to your Daisey and with 4 foot diameter curve track you're not going to want to run Daisey at wide open throttle anyway. Most likely she would derail on the curves.
3rd. If you buy online, make sure you understand the difference between a transformer and a power supply like say Bridgewerks. A Transformer has a throttle control while many power supply require a separate throttle controller.


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## denon (Sep 29, 2016)

Thank you for the replies. I live in the South Suburbs of Chicago. Used to know a few people in the Chicagoland Garden Railway Society but I am not sure it is around anymore.

I do like the idea of buying once (Within reason) and growing into it instead of having to upgrade each time. Learned that in the RC car world fast. There is the Great Midwest Train Show that I have been to and hope to make either October's or November's.

Randy thank you for the info. That is good advice. I think I think I want to get something that will not only run this loco but also if I were to get a different one once funding is available 

Last question, the daisy has a switch inside the cab that has three positions. I cannot find the documentation but I assume one way switches on and off the smoke stack....any guess which is which?


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Denon, this is the Transformer/Power Pack I use. It has powered 4 USAT F3s pulling 5 USAT passenger cars. I like it a lot.http://www.ebay.com/itm/MRC-AG990-P...668224?hash=item58dea7e940:g:kLQAAOSw9r1WCcLt

As for the switch, I believe it is a light/smoke on/off switch but no expert on that loco.


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## denon (Sep 29, 2016)

Would a Bridgewerks 10-SR work for me? A friend has one that they might want to sell (With a little convincing  )


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have one of the MRC too and it is a workhorse. It also has an honest 10 amps max, you won't run out of power even with multiple locos, lighted cars, etc.

Greg


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

I think Greg means he has a MRC.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Ideally, I'd readily agree with the advice given above, that you'd want a good 5 to 10-amp throttle set-up if you're going to be getting into large scale to any great extent. However, in answer to your specific question about the Tech II 2400, I'm going to say "absolutely, it will work."

I'm going to presume the "Daisy" you're talking about is the same small Porter 0-4-0T that I have. I run mine off of an 11.1 volt battery, and it's p-l-e-n-t-y fast. When I first got started in large scale (mid 70s), all we had were HO scale controllers. Dad and I won an MRC Tech II 2500 as a doorprize at an early LGB convention, and it provided good service for many years until we converted to battery power in the mid 80s. (The 2500 is essentially the same as the 2400, but with momentum and braking.)

I can't speak to the smoke unit, since mine doesn't have one. If you're going to run the smoke unit, you will draw a lot more current through the Tech II, and you may notice its performance sagging. Unless the smoke unit is regulated to 5 volts, your loco will likely be flying around the track at breakneck speeds before you get enough voltage to it to make the smoke remotely worthwhile, so I'm not sure I'd worry too much about that right out of the gate.

So, long term, you'll do yourself good to get a high-powered throttle set-up. Short term, and for running Daisy around your 4' diameter track, what you have will work right nicely.

Later,

K


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The LGB smoke unit in the daisy is a 18 volt unit and I run these on the LGB 7va power packs with no problem. This smoke unit draws around 100ma when hot. 18 volt Headlight draws 55 ma.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

denon, for a 4ft circle around the X-mas tree an inexpensive starter transformer/controller will be fine for Daisy and a couple of cars. A cheap one shouldn't be hard to find because people outgrow them when their layouts expand and run locos with 2 motors/many cars/lights/sound etc. Even a 12 volt HO one will work to make it go around at a reasonable speed. Some large scale starter transformer/controllers are around 0.5 amp and others are around 1 amp. The 7va one Dan is referring to is probably about 0.5 amp. 
The 3 position switch is similar to most LBG locos. From left to right: 1)Everything Off - 2)Lights and smoke only - 3)Motor, lights and smoke. Some have a forth position for DCC.

Andrew


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## DennisB (Jan 2, 2008)

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LGB-Transfor...841744?hash=item1c71790890:g:muwAAOSw4shX8Wrg
You don't have to break the bank. The LGB 50081 can run an LGB engine w/sound on over a hundred feet of track. Regards, Dennis.


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Dennis. Yep, the LGB 50081 is a 1 amp starter transformer/controller. Plenty for Daisy and they are in abundance.
Another to look out for is the fatter looking Lehmann 500N which is 1 amp and has a separate 18 volt output for accessories. The controller output is only 14 volts max but plenty fast enough for small LGB engines.
I think even a Bachmann 4-6-0 only draws 0.7 of an amp but things can become far more demanding with long trains, sound, smoke and lights in cars etc. Also long lengths of track will suck up power.

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

While the little LGB will power the Daisy, be aware it won't do much else, nor be good for other manufacturer's locos.

Long lengths of track will take voltage, not current, so top speed will be affected.

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Note the VA rating is 1 amp at 7 volts, or 1/2 amp at 14 volts. 
VA is voltage times current!!

Note the 7va by LGB (5003/110) power pack will run the LGB dual motor RHB with 5 lights on (3 in the front, cab light plus right rear light) and Pantographs that operate. Not fast but it will run!!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Dan, kind of true. The VA rating is cherry picked from the range of output voltages therefore unreliable. It is possible that you never get a full 1 amp at any voltage.
I tried running an analog Brawa RhB Consolidation with a Maxon motor on a 1/2 amp power pack and all it did was hum. Big motor though.

Andrew


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, to underscore what Andrew said, VA rating is only required to be at ONE combination of voltage and amps... not ALL combinations of volts and amps.

Typically they NEVER reach the VA rating at the higher voltages, so that explains the poor performance on some locos:

The loco runs slow, so you turn up the voltage, but now the current drops and the loco cannot get enough POWER (volts times amps) to the loco.

So running slow is usually ok, low amperage locos are usually ok, higher amperage, faster speeds more load, not ok, and your VA "number" is not achieved in these conditions.

My personal "rule" is anything rated in VA is junk for anything but a lightweight toy train (sorry LGB).

Greg


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

A good manufacturer will under rate specs, and I believe this is what LGB did with the older power packs.
And if using a common winding for both AC and DC outputs then if one is not used then the other may have the capability of both.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

If you are considering building an outdoor railway, I highly recommend you look into battery powered with some kind of RC control such as Airwire or similar. It is so nice to just go out and do a quick once over to clear any branches and leaves from the right of way, then the train can just run. No more issues with rail joints working then not working, having to clean the track after the winter shut down and after long periods of non use. Also eliminates most of the icing of wheels when trying to run in the winter. Just leave the trains in the garage the night before other than the one that has the battery in it. If you get down towards Indianapolis, stop in at Zionsville Train Depot, they have a good selection of G scale(mostly LGB), changes constantly as most of it is second hand from estates collections. You never know what will show up. I also find G scale up at the show at the Dupage Co fair grounds over in Wheaton each time I make the 4 hour drive up. Welcome back to the hobby and to large scale trains. I have pretty much finished out my G scale, just adding a few details to my garden railway when I find items I like. Getting ready to build small 2 rail O scale layout indoors now. Mike


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

It had to happen. If someone asked for what brand of batteries you use in a loco, no one ever says switch to track power.

There's a lot of pro's and con's in battery vs other remote control systems, but DC track power is still the least complicated and inexpensive.

Greg


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

And the most upkeep if running an outdoor railway. But yes, the initial outlay for straight analog DC track power is normaly quite inexpensive. Unless you buy one of the bigger Bridgeworks transformers. Those are not cheap and would pay for a couple of battery converted engines and a control system for RC. I feel its only fair to open up all options so the OP isnt disappointed later on wishing he knew about other options other than track power. Indoors, track power is fine, my overhead loop still retains its track powered option for when I repair engines for others. 

Of coarse he could always come to the dark side and go live steam!


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

If I place a galaxy 7 phone in my loco could I possibly call it live electric???


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not the most upkeep if you have SS rails, virtually zero upkeep.

The "Best" solution is not a simple answer in track power vs battery.

Greg


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