# Gas filling



## Michael (Jan 6, 2008)

Hello,

Here in Germany, a lot of live steamers retrofit their gas tanks with quick release coupliings, e.g.
http://www.rectus.de/rectus/index.p...mp;serie=3
-female part on the tank, male part connected to a valve on the butane canister via a clear plastic tube, so you can see
the liquid moving.
These guys obviously feel unhappy with the original "Ronson"-type valves as provided on the gas tanks of Aster or Accucraft.
The filling via the original valves always leads to a loss of gas since the connection between canister and valve is not "air-tight".
On the other hand, posts in this forum suggest, that is less of an issue in the U.S., and most live steamer keep their "Ronson"-valves.
Am I mistaken here? What's your opinion - replace or not?

Regards
Michael


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Michael
How about this creative way to fill a tank:


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

That looks great Charles but you wouldn’t get any liquid, just the gas off the top of the supply.


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## rbednarik (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, 

Correct, 

This is used to bring the boiler up to operating pressure, then by unplugging the auxiliary tank, the pre-filled OEM tank can be used for the duration of the run.


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## Dan Pantages (Jan 2, 2008)

Clever.


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## Chris Scott (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Charles on 29 Sep 2009 04:56 AM 
Michael
How about this creative way to fill a tank:













A second view, one of John Synnestvedt's demo's for the quick disconnect he does/used to sell (does he still sell them?). 














Michael:


The German can gas filler bayonet connection (per the posted tech specs link for its other uses), does not allow for liquid butane bleed back (Ronson type) indicating the tank is full?. A problem for our steam purposes.

Gas loss when filling? I find the gas loss is minimized through experience and the type of filling adapter between gas can gas tank Ronson filler valve. There are several inventive adapters that have been made, maybe some will post their creations (unless a patent is pending). The gas loss when filling is negligible compared to the safety trade off of not overfilling the gas tank.

Aster used to offer an accessory gas can adapter with an improved connection but still allow gas bleed back. Over simplified, works more like a tire air supply to tire valve stem connection. A hose from the butane can to the loco gas tank. The supply connector fitting over the valve stem by ~1/2"; press down and the gas flows. The gas tank filler valve is still a Ronson type but much more robust. I have never seen one of these in actual use. How I can into possession of one is a story for another time. Aster apparently no longer offers this adapter, there are no pictures on Aster USA's website.


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## Charles (Jan 2, 2008)

Chris
I spoke with John at the steamup this past weekend. John is a very innovative person with many creative steam designs to enhance a locomotive. We do order from him. 

Found the related photo when John was explaining his setups to customers (for some it is good to have a visual of those to whom we speak about):










I believe that there are numerous other setups for gas delivery that Royce has to offer.


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## Michael (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Chris Scott on 29 Sep 2009 09:59 AM 



_Michael:
_
_...__There are several inventive adapters that have been made, maybe some will post their __creations (unless a patent is pending)...__
__Aster used to offer an accessory gas can adapter with an improved connection but still allow gas bleed back...__. Aster apparently no longer offers this adapter, there are no pictures on __Aster USA's website.
_


Chris,

Yes, I was hoping to get some ideas or sources for (better) adapters between the Ronson valve and gas canister.

As to the gas loss: when the tank is filled, there's a hissing noice and a gas 'cloud' - this may come from a leak because the connection is not 100% 'gas-tight'. On the other hand, the Ronson valve acts not only as a filler valve, but also as a venting valve - I unscrewed one and noticed the small opening to vent or bleed (as you called it). So, when filling, there's also some venting, and the cloud may come from there. The guys here that retrofitted their tanks with the quick connect coupling (which is 100%) air-tight) need to release some gas/air from time to time via the Ronson valve (many kept it, and made a secong bore for the quick connect coupling) while filling. So to me it looks like the Ronson valve is a clever dual-purpose valve. If I only knew a way to better adapt it to the gas can...


Michael


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## RimfireJim (Mar 25, 2009)

Posted By Chris Scott on 29 Sep 2009 09:59 AM 

The gas loss when filling is negligible compared to the safety trade off of not overfilling the gas tank.


I'm having trouble seeing how there is a safety trade-off. The liquid butane flows due to a pressure difference. If the tank is not vented, the pressure will build up to no more than that of the filler can, which is no higher than the operating pressure of the tank. The only difference is that you won't have as much liquid in it as you would get if you vented out the gas (vapor) during filling. So, not very effective, but not a safety issue.
Am I missing something here?


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