# Smoke question



## chucka (Mar 20, 2013)

I am doing some Airwire/phoenix/battery conversions using the airwire G3 decoder. I have been reading past posts here (including the info on Greg's site), studying the airwire documentation and also info on some other decoders for comparison and I am thinking this answer is "No", but thought I would throw the question out anyway to those with much more knowledge than I. 

Can the G3 be used to operate a smoke generator with a fan in "Direct Smoke" mode (separate control of heating element and fan---fan synced to chuff)? I am thinking MTS or MTH units. If I am already at the answer to question one, question number two might be---- can the MTH unit be connected somehow to the G3 for continuous smoke output? I know the MTS unit has the PCB that can connect directly to the G3 for continuous smoke.

Thanks,
Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, the answer is no. The G3 has no concept of sound or chuff timing... that has to come from a sound unit.. 

Sure you can connect any smoke unit for continuous output. But it depends on a smoke unit. Some have voltage regulation systems, some, like the G scale units from MTH have no power regulation. 

The MTH unit will need a voltage regulator, and also probably a relay to connect it to the G3 to be able to turn it on and off. 

Greg


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## chucka (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks Greg. I think i will give the MTS a try for now, but for future installs i believe you stated in one of the posts today that other decoders could be used with AirWire? If that is an option, maybe that would be a possibility to achieve "Direct Smoke" control in the future installs I have planned? 

Chuck


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

I agree with Greg on his first two statements but not the last I use mth with no relay or voltage regulator with airwire.


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## chucka (Mar 20, 2013)

Dick,

Looks great. Can you share any details of your hookup to the four wires of the MTH unit

Chuck


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

hook the two pos. together and the two neg. than hook to airwire. I also like two use the smaller ones fit better. in the gp's 
Dick


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## chucka (Mar 20, 2013)

Awesome. Sounds simple enough! So, no concerns over voltage and we are off and running! Thanks much.

Chuck


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

MTH makes and "O" scale smoke unit that can take track voltage... they are hard to get. 

This is the reason I was clear and specific about the "G" scale ones that CANNOT take track voltage. On the G scale ones the fan is about 5 volts, and the heating element will be stable at around 9, you can run higher but not continuously. 

Dick, what voltage are you sending to the MTH unit and is it a G or O scale one? 

Greg


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## Dick413 (Jan 7, 2008)

The smoke units you see working in the gp's are the smaller ones made by mth they are not made for any one o scale engine i started getting these about 
10 years ago at tca york, mike told me they where made for accessories . the last time i read that " they are hard to get" and it was not Greg 
was the end of dec. 2012 or beginning or 2013 so i got nervous and called mth the next day 3 days later i had 4 more, so as far as i know they 
are not hard to get. 
dick 
o and greg 14.8 volts


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

OK, the ones sold as accessories have an internal voltage regulator, and I believe they were designed before the #1 scale stuff. 

Those can hook to track power. 

If you have an MTH unit with the 4 wires that clearly has no electronics you need to regulate the voltage yourself: 










You can clearly see that the motor wires go directly to the motors, no electronics... you can't see from this picture, but the heater wires likewise have no regulation.

Greg


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## chucka (Mar 20, 2013)

Greg and Dick, 

This process of learning about R/C control, DCC, sound units, diodes, voltage regulators, smoke generators, battery power, etc. is like drinking from a fire hose. So much information flowing and so much to swallow (learn and understand). Thanks for being there for those of us who ask the mundane questions as we stumble forward through this tangle. If i can think out loud, i believe i have a better handle on it tonight than i did yesterday. To control a Smoke generator with fan synced with a steam engine's chuff, it has to be driven from the outputs of a sound card configured as such (e.g. QSI Titan). So in using Airwire, the G3 decoder will drive the sound card and in turn it controls the smoke generator. Or, in lieu of a sound card with capability to control a smoke generator's heater and fan separately, the G3 can drive the smoke generator's heater (at the proper stepped down voltage as necessary) and the fan could then be controlled by a separate chuff trigger, proper voltage circuit, relay? Or, a simpler approach would be to control a smoke generator with fan by the G3 through the generator's dedicated electronics in constant smoke mode (e.g. MTS with PCB). Am i thinking correctly here? Or is there another option out there?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You have basically perfect understanding of the information given... very good "distillation" of the "fire hose" 

Yes you could drive the fan from a relay and some chuff circuit, relays are normally not fast enough to respond at higher speeds and really don't take to such constant actuation, but you could probably find some reed relays that would do. 

Again, congratulations on your "distillation", very few people can make order out of chaos! 

Keep studying and asking questions, you are on a good path! 

Greg


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## chucka (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks Greg! I realize i am at the beginning of a journey here that started just a month ago. I now have some components and some understanding and it is time to disassemble a locomotive, plug in the solder iron and get started. Thanks for the guidance. I know i will have more questions and deeply appreciate the willingness to spend the time to read and answer them. Plus i will keep a close eye on all of the info that flows through MLS. In the very short time i have been actively engaged in this endeavor i have met some great and very helpful people as well as some awesome suppliers (and even one great "former" supplier).


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