# New LGB items for 2011



## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all,

The new LGB items have now been posted:

http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/produk...t_2011.pdf

There are some really nice items on there...love that G3/4 Thusis in black!

Keith


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## blueregal (Jan 3, 2008)

I guess if your modeling in European style there's some things there that might interest you, but for me the only thing in 68 pages is the Sumpter Valley Mallet, and I prolly won't be a purchasin one of dem in da near to there future!! Regal


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes that Sumpter Valley is nice...digital, sound, syncronized smoke...very nice update on it.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Looks like I may get a shot at getting a 4 wheel LGB streetcar after all , maybe . For some reason thats a item that I just never picked up , but would like now .


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

Pass, nothing to tempt me. :-(


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow....may need to deliver pizzas or sell a kidney!


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 18 Jan 2011 11:49 AM 
Yes that Sumpter Valley is nice...syncronized smoke...


Keith, "wishfull thinking". Nothing in the specs indicates chuff sysnchronized smoke. And no - its still the old electronics that are going in there. Skipped about 15 years of development.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

So what does "Steam chuffing in syncronization with the wheels" mean then Axel? They put it in the Harz loco...seems logical here too. I suppose they could be referring to the sound only...will find out soon I'm sure.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 18 Jan 2011 05:35 PM 
So what does "Steam chuffing in syncronization with the wheels" mean then Axel? They put it in the Harz loco...seems logical here too. I suppose they could be referring to the sound only...will find out soon I'm sure.


I find the English a bit ambiguous.
"Steam chuffing in syncronization with the wheels" to me it could mean simply that the steam chuff sound is synchronized, however in German: "Dampfausstoß synchron zur Radumdrehung" specifically means the emission of the smoke (or steam), not just the sound.

Knut


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

It is quite possible that even the German is quite ambigous, the reason why I believe it to be sound only is because its mentioned in the sound feature section and not were I would expect it to be in the explaination of the smoke unit, it simply states "smoke generator" and not "cuff synchronized smoke generator". 

So I believe they describe the feature of the chuff sensor on the power truck as the trigger to the synchronized chuff sound generation.

But of course I could be wrong. To be less ambiguous they should have indented the sound "sub"-features


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

theres no way it going to have synched smoke- 
its costly and reserved for the premium locos (2-10-2) and 
since the loco wasnt desinged for it i doubt they will re-fit - 
at this point im certain its all about reducing cost and moving product 

and while im a 'red box guy' 
-it is exactly this skipped 15 years thing that will hurt LGB-todays MARKLIN prices!!! for yesterdays technology


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I decided to ask the LGB staff at Marklin directly. 
They came back with a reply this morning that the "Dampfausstoß ist synchron" ie the smoke coming from the smoke stack is synchronized. 

Unfortunately, I see this time and time again that the English translation of LGB literature is lacking - mostly because the translators are not familiar with LGB or even railroad terminology in general. 

Another example is the term in the 2011 brochure: "DCC Connector" - this is not yet another DCC interface which what the different new name might imply but the same "DCC Schnittstelle" which was always called a "DCC Interface" in English. 

Knut


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

-it is exactly this skipped 15 years thing that will hurt LGB-todays MARKLIN prices!!! for yesterdays technology 


I would much rather have LGB's "yesterdays technology" than Aristo's "todays technology" anyday! There seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding LGB these days, but I feel quite positive about what Maerklin are doing. It's a big ship that takes time to turn around but it seems they are doing just that. You have to keep in mind they've been operating with a bankers bit in their mouth. Their narrow gauge product lines continue to expand with new tooling, and for me the RhB products have been improving in detail while keeping the price very reasonable--a good example is the latest series of four-axle rungenwagens in DB and RhB livery. When you look at the street price for a digital loco with sound it's about the same as it was 10 years ago. The latest onboard decoders work very well with any DCC system and at least when you pull them apart you aren't looking at all pink wires or the flavour of that weekday. They have excellent parts support and I believe are making a real effort at building back a loyal consumer base. You get what you pay for, as always. 

Keith


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

The only "negativity" I have regarding LGB is the prices, Yes I know LGBs were never cheap but since the Big Hindenburg and the Marklin takeover the prices went up and have consistly remained at the new MSRP levels which to me are in the Stratosphere! We all got spoiled by the discount vendors before the Lakehurst Event. I really miss the affordable Toytrain line, theres nothing really comperable today.


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

Agree 100% with Keith on the LGB technology comment especially with simple DCC operation. I was fortunate to have purchased my LGB engines with onboard decoders and sound when LGBOA was discounting heavily. Take out of box and they run great analog and digital. 

Sold off my Aristo/QSI due to lighting and track power issues. Saving to convert few older generation and a Genesis to DCC. 

Alan


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

From a recent interview with their CEO I get the impression they know they must reach out to the children in new ways and apparently they have some big surprise planned for the big Toy Fair in February--though it wasn't clear whether it was going to be in the smaller or larger scales, or maybe both. We'll see I guess.... 

Keith


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 19 Jan 2011 09:06 AM 
-it is exactly this skipped 15 years thing that will hurt LGB-todays MARKLIN prices!!! for yesterdays technology 


I would much rather have LGB's "yesterdays technology" than Aristo's "todays technology" anyday! There seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding LGB these days, but I feel quite positive about what Maerklin are doing. It's a big ship that takes time to turn around but it seems they are doing just that. You have to keep in mind they've been operating with a bankers bit in their mouth. Their narrow gauge product lines continue to expand with new tooling, and for me the RhB products have been improving in detail while keeping the price very reasonable--a good example is the latest series of four-axle rungenwagens in DB and RhB livery. When you look at the street price for a digital loco with sound it's about the same as it was 10 years ago. The latest onboard decoders work very well with any DCC system and at least when you pull them apart you aren't looking at all pink wires or the flavour of that weekday. They have excellent parts support and I believe are making a real effort at building back a loyal consumer base. You get what you pay for, as always. 

Keith 


Keith -

I pretty much agree with what you posted.
The perception seems to be that the LGB prices have gone up significantly under Marklin but I don't think that is true at all.
I remember for at least one year under Marklin there was no price increase at all, some items were actually reduced in price, and a number of items I bought, like the four-axle RhB Rungenwagen, was priced lower than any of my RhB friends expected.
However, there is one trend I noticed with LGB under Marklin - they tend to be very conservative when it comes to the quantity of product they manufacture in one production run. LGB (under Richter) always used to have tons of product sitting in their warehouse in Nurnberg, MLGB doesn't and if the product turns out to be popular, like the RhB Rungenwagen, they run out of stock real fast. 

What this does is to drive the ebay prices up, even on relatively new items...he old supply and demand scenario.


Knut


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Knut, 

Good observation on the limited production runs. I wonder if they did this specifically on the items they knew they had some minor issues with and so choked back production a bit figuring they will correct them in the next run or is it right across the board? For example the hooks & hoses on the rungenwagens? On the other hand, it's probably a wise move at this point because if people think they will miss an item they will be less likely to sit back and wait a year for when the big discount vultures step in. 
They are also packaging more things together like they do in HO, such as the two cement silo cars, four Bernina coaches, two refrigerated intermodal cars and sets like the old timer Bernina with the original pantographs. If they ever package three gray Fac hoppers with different numbers together I'm in trouble! 

Keith


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 19 Jan 2011 10:31 AM 
I wonder if they did this specifically on the items they knew they had some minor issues with and so choked back production a bit figuring they will correct them in the next run or is it right across the board? For example the hooks & hoses on the rungenwagens? On the other hand, it's probably a wise move at this point because if people think they will miss an item they will be less likely to sit back and wait a year for when the big discount vultures step in. 
They are also packaging more things together like they do in HO, such as the two cement silo cars, four Bernina coaches, two refrigerated intermodal cars and sets like the old timer Bernina with the original pantographs. If they ever package three gray Fac hoppers with different numbers together I'm in trouble!


Hi Keith -

I can't figure out how to break your comment up into two separate 'quotes' so I could respond to each part individually - that's another "fix" that this website requires urgently.

Anyway - I don't think minor issues have anything to do with the limited production runs. The hook on the Rungenwagen being inserted upside down could have just been fixed with a simple assembly instruction to the production line. If I didn't know any better and wasn't familiar with its use, I would have inserted it with the open end down as well - just looks better that way.
The limited production runs are simple part of their current business model and reflects general business strategy in today's environment. 
If you recall, a big chunck of the cash that Marklin generated to distribute to the banks and their other creditors came from inventory reduction, including LGB. Right now, Marklin only manufactures what they actually have orders for plus a small additional percentage. The onus is on the customer to order once the product is announced and the dealer to perhaps order some additional stock.

Packaging multiple units together does reduce the overall product cost in the supply chain but with Large Scale items I think one needs to be careful in that respect because it drives the total price of the "package" up.
I think people are more likely to buy one FAC hopper at say $149.- vs three at $399.- even though the latter is a better deal. With the smaller scales you're talking fewer total loonies.

As a friend of mine pointed out, and I agree, grouping the two 2011 Christmas car as a set I think is a mistake. However, since they are packaged separately, I'm sure dealers will break them up and sell them separately.

Best regards, 


Knut


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## bdelmo (Oct 21, 2010)

LGB is making the most of existing tooling, but not matching up correctly to the prototypes. There was no Forney on the White Pass & Yukon Route. I need to check whether the green and yellow caboose ever existed, but doubt it. I would like to get the green and yellow Alco diesel 106 to MU with my 108.


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Many topics here:

1. Sets are a very positive thing So not really new (2 Aussichtswagen RhB). Anybody collecting the COOP cars will definitely buy one set. The Morenkoepfe however, have been out for a long time, I don't know how many buyers can be found for that. The attempt is good however. While not packed as a set but three green passenger cars (albeit a wrong picture in the catalog for the 1st class car) allows poeple to buy into the green period without waiting years.

2. Limited productions are so limited that there are not a lot of parts being produced, very much to the disappointment of the old time owners who still can't get any parts.

3. LGB preferred of Aristo any day (or USA or HLW or Piko or?)?? First of all for me (and probably your Keith) SD45 don't look to well placed on our RhB layouts.







. However (with the exception of the motor) all providers have approached a common denominator. The Plastics from China are not what we used to see (one of my customers is in the plastics industry and says with recent productions - Hungary or China - he can't get his smell fix any longer







). From that point of view with more than double the price of Aristo and USA Trains rolling stock, poeple will think more than twice what to buy (2 Aristo box cars with metal wheels or one LGB boxcar with plastic wheels). The absence of LGB for 4 years has created quite a following for Aristo in particular and USA as well. And Bachmann doesn't make bad engines either (at least after they have the initial production mistakes out of the system







. The absence allowed customers interested in US rolling stock to see that "other mother of nice daughters as well" (translated German proverb).

4. We are retrofitting chuff synchronized smoke into almost any LGB (or non LGB engine) - even Stainz. We just have an Aster Tssd on the bench and our smoke unit fits right in the boiler space - so no porblem there. Once done we will post YouTube video.

5. I think with a few tweaks here and there - still utilizing the old molds, LGB under Maerklin could have truly manufactured a few nice new items, instead of the re-runs. Point in case RhB tractor Tm 2/2 - just put a Hiab crane on the front platform or make the tower tractor (based on the same model)









or instead of a repainted red Abe why not a yellow or orange MOW version:


















6. Yes prices have gone up, but the question was were the prices in the old LGB realistic? My feeling it the answer is probably in the middle.


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Knut: I agree with the logic on packaging that it's different in large scale than with the smaller scales. Not only is the money an issue, but so is the space required! Packaged products are possibly less attractive to consumers who have been in the hobby for a while and are just picking the odd item, compared to say newcomers who are looking to put together a nice Bernina car set as their main passenger consist--hard to know what their reasoning is behind it. 
Alan: Yes they have a way to go when it comes to matching prototypes, but I think that will improve with time and financial shape. Think on the brightside: now you'll be able to get news parts for those Alcos! 
edit: Axel: Your post happened while I was typing...you make all really good points. And I miss the old plastic too.









Keith


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By bdelmo on 19 Jan 2011 11:57 AM 
LGB is making the most of existing tooling, but not matching up correctly to the prototypes. There was no Forney on the White Pass & Yukon Route. I need to check whether the green and yellow caboose ever existed, but doubt it. I would like to get the green and yellow Alco diesel 106 to MU with my 108.


Well at least we know that the LGB tooling hasn't vanished to a large degree per the rumours that were going around the net last year.

But I do wish I knew who makes these decisions as the model vs. prototype. There must be Forney prototypes that LGB has not yet offered and where it is not that complex or costly to get a license to use that railroad's livery.
But I see that with Aristocraft and USA Trains as well = once they spend the money to tool up for a now loco or car, they offer that with every railroad livery under the sun includeing the railroads that never owned those particular models.

On the Forney - does anyone know of a website that lists all the prototype Forneys that ever existed?


Knut


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By bdelmo on 19 Jan 2011 11:57 AM 
LGB is making the most of existing tooling, but not matching up correctly to the prototypes. There was no Forney on the White Pass & Yukon Route. I need to check whether the green and yellow caboose ever existed, but doubt it. I would like to get the green and yellow Alco diesel 106 to MU with my 108. _Posted with a giggle .........................You do know that the green and yellow diesel you like , is only a non scale plastic shell with a dc motor for motion ?







_

A lot of us realize the cost of molds and dies , and the needs of a manufacture to sell as many products as they can to regain their investment cost . So I do not care if they paint them polka dots , so long as maybe a few are painted as I would like .

I wish LGB well , I enjoy operating a product that runs really well for a long time , as opposed to some other brands that do not .


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Dennis Paulson on 19 Jan 2011 02:28 PM 

So I do not care if they paint them polka dots , so long as maybe a few are painted as I would like .





Everyone has their own opinions - that's fine.

"Polka Dots" wouldn't bother me either since it's pretty obvious it's a fantasy livery, same with the Christmas cars which are quite popular and similar items.


But when it comes to real road names and railroad companies, I think the Large Scale community is not quite as tolerant as they used to be years ago when pretty much anything went as long as it looked good and ran reliably.

Just my opinion of course

Knut


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 19 Jan 2011 12:12 PM 
And I miss the old plastic too.









Keith 


The Luran S went bye bye in the 1990s, long before Marklin, switching to Ultraform and Ultramid. A shame, as the stuff does smell great, and it can be good fun to whip a 1977 era model out of the box and STILL smell it. 

EDIT: Every now and again, I get to vist a factory that makes/processes Luran S....


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Did the White Pass have a forney? Most likely not. Will it sell? Most likely yes. The US guys love those Forneys (Fornei?)


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Spule 4 on 19 Jan 2011 04:36 PM 
The Luran S went bye bye in the 1990s, long before Marklin, switching to Ultraform and Ultramid. A shame, as the stuff does smell great, and it can be good fun to whip a 1977 era model out of the box and STILL smell it.




I thought LGB started to use Luran S again just recently with their new Hungary production.

Train Line Gartenbahnen certainly uses Luran S with the line of HSB cars they are bringing out.

This is a model I really like:
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=2693

You can go to "Advanced Search" in the database andenter Train Line Gartenbahnen as the keywords and then select "only manufacturers"


That should bring all the HSB cars up that are currently listed in the database.

Knut


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## eheading (Jan 5, 2008)

I was interested to see that LGB is going to produce the White Pass & Yukon Alco diesel again. Although the primary locomotives that WP&Y uses today are the GE Shovel Nose engines, they still have the trusty green and yellow Alco's running too. I visited a garden railroad in Skagway, AK this summer that runs primarily the Alco WP&Y diesels. They were working pretty hard to keep the old engines running. I suspect they will be thrilled to death to see them being produced again!

Ed


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Yes the Proline products are all Luran S including the soon to come RhB cars (and all metal wheels) and I have a few suprises including engines and more RhB cars on the first day of Hannover Fair. And consider the prices $245 for the HSB cars with the exception of the Faust Car $275. And of course all MLS 1st class member receive their discount.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

MLS 1st class members get a discount on what items , or what terms ? 
I like the sound of this Axel


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By krs on 19 Jan 2011 04:52 PM 
Posted By Spule 4 on 19 Jan 2011 04:36 PM 
The Luran S went bye bye in the 1990s, long before Marklin, switching to Ultraform and Ultramid. A shame, as the stuff does smell great, and it can be good fun to whip a 1977 era model out of the box and STILL smell it.




I thought LGB started to use Luran S again just recently with their new Hungary production.

Train Line Gartenbahnen certainly uses Luran S with the line of HSB cars they are bringing out.

This is a model I really like:
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=2693

You can go to "Advanced Search" in the database andenter Train Line Gartenbahnen as the keywords and then select "only manufacturers"


That should bring all the HSB cars up that are currently listed in the database.

Knut 



My most recent item (DRG passenger car from Hungary) does not have the smell or feel of Luran, is more on par with late 1990s-early 2000s EPL items with the Ultraform/Ultramid plastics.

Regardless, all are automotive grade, hence why your LGB trains will not warp after 15 min in the sun like a couple other brands (experenced this firsthand, one reason I got out of US outline Fn3 and back to Euorpean LGB, well, that and your stations can have flower boxes!)

Interesting on Tranline's use of the material, the stuff is not cheap!


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## stanman (Jan 4, 2008)

Nice catalog. Almost looks like the "good old days" of LGB


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

MLS 1st class member receive a 10% discount. When you order from us on the phone you have to specify that you are a MLS 1st class member.

In terms of the plastic, Luran S is excellent stuff and some Auto manufacturers are using it large scale (probably the high-end cars BWM, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi - but not VW, Opel or Ford). I believe the cost increase for the raw material is less important than the amortization of the forms whcih role in as a base cost per car. Extra costs are also involved for the metal wheels. So all in all it is worth to spend the extra dollar for the raw materials.

One area, as far as I understand, Luran S has less shrinkage problems than cheaper plastics, which is important for press fittings so that stuff doesn't fall out.


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## Ted Yarbrough (Jan 2, 2008)

Friends,
I know this is the European forum, but the 2011 LGB line has some interesting products even for US Narrow Gauge folks. I like the re-release of the Sumpter Valley Mallet. I was looking for a new Rio Grande mogul, but the 26196 with its wood burning stack and coal load is not exactly what I had in mind. A wood burning version of the White Pass loco from several years back painted for the Rio Grande would be nice or another road number like the #248 they realesed a few years back would be nice. The wood burning smoke stack and the oil lamp with modern lettering is just strange! Hopefully, LGB will release a plastic reasonabbly priced K-series loco SOON!


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## stevedenver (Jan 6, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 19 Jan 2011 09:06 AM 
-it is exactly this skipped 15 years thing that will hurt LGB-todays MARKLIN prices!!! for yesterdays technology 


I would much rather have LGB's "yesterdays technology" than Aristo's "todays technology" anyday! There seems to be a lot of negativity surrounding LGB these days, but I feel quite positive about what Maerklin are doing. It's a big ship that takes time to turn around but it seems they are doing just that. You have to keep in mind they've been operating with a bankers bit in their mouth. Their narrow gauge product lines continue to expand with new tooling, and for me the RhB products have been improving in detail while keeping the price very reasonable--a good example is the latest series of four-axle rungenwagens in DB and RhB livery. When you look at the street price for a digital loco with sound it's about the same as it was 10 years ago. The latest onboard decoders work very well with any DCC system and at least when you pull them apart you aren't looking at all pink wires or the flavour of that weekday. They have excellent parts support and I believe are making a real effort at building back a loyal consumer base. You get what you pay for, as always. 

Keith 
me too thats why i buy LGB

but let me tell you what ive seen-
Durango and Silverton coaches with not very nice printing-at about 120 each

blue bonnet Fs at 550 each

war bonnets however are about 400 or so
smoothsides pushing 400+ each

the little blue amusement park loco -is about $360-$85 each for the little grizzly flats style amusement park cars with figures

what i dont get is what i perceive as a rather large price jump-this is all old tooling


and

what i fear, unrelated to whats been said, is a choke hold by Walthers as distributor and very high prices

i recall way long ago when LGB was sold for very close to retail
and 
this raises the issue of value


i dont pretened to understand the intricacies of model train retail and distribution


having recently tried Walthers to get a part for my Genesis without any luck
my perception of the Marklin LGB is very different
in terms of customer support, of value of items
the dealers ive contacted for parts dont have them-so regardless of marklins intent-the fact is they are diffcult to obtain-
train li is about the only one i cna think of and ive struck our there from time to time too

i too would always rather have LGB for its durability
and hopefully unequalled QC


when i complain about tech-what i suggest are little things that other makers, even in O and HO can offer
( i know this isnt apples to oranges (based on hobby volume and cost efficiencies))


i would like to see working marker lights, rear end lights, diesles that blow smoke , steam engines that chuff, 
nice paint and printing
metal wheels-maybe- i happen to like LGB plastic wheels for many reasons

when i see what o scale offers for around 500-900 im amazed-
couplers that work, synch smoke, cab lights off and on, rear lights front lights, smoke box lights, cab chatter, throttles that vibrate when you brake heavily etc etc


when i see this, 
i feel like LGB is way behind-but i also know it will run and i can fix a problem myself, or get the part, 
as opposed to scrapping an engine entirely when it goes wrong


my point really is that if you price a rolls royce commodity, it should at least offer what the lesser competitors are offering
they are a toy producer with some very fine models-im ok with that-and im ok with the rubber rule and unusual paint schemes-its part of what i like

I too wish them well
they are virtually all i own in g scale

im not retired, and have a decent income, 
im thinking long and hard about more LGB,

not a 'never' stand,
just not as much, nor as often
price is always relevant, and it effects value

i dont percieve it as high quality as the old-and it costs more 
i could be entirely wrong because ive only seen a little of it here in Denver, and a bit more at train shows 

and 

it seem to me that not moving stock is what killed the predecessor firm
prices alone will do this
to compete with others and even all the old ebay stock-i think they need 
"new and improved"
give me this and ill happily shell out $1000+ for locos that thrill me


again i love the stuff -
im just giving my perspective 
not bashing Marklin, or LGB


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

The main reason I don't buy LGB stuff is their choice of scale 1.22.5 just looks wierd with 1/29th scale, that and it's mostly all euro stuff save a few odds and ends.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 22 Jan 2011 01:51 PM 
The main reason I don't buy LGB stuff is their choice of scale 1.22.5 just looks wierd with 1/29th scale, that and it's mostly all euro stuff save a few odds and ends.


I take you don't realize that Aristocraft chose the rather strange and non-standard 1/29 scale specifically so that the size of their *"standard gauge*" model boxcars at the time would match the model size of the existing LGB *narrow gauge* cars and engines which were roughly in 1/22.5 scale.

The LGB *standard gauge* cars and engines are about 1/27 scale or so and Aristocraft or USA Trains cars match those very nicely.


I don't have a photograph handy that shows a mix of LGB, Aristocraft and USA Trains cars but I'm sure someone on mls can help out. I'd like to see a "weird" combination of "standard gauge" boxcars by those three manufacurers.


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Posted By krs on 22 Jan 2011 02:34 PM 
Posted By BodsRailRoad on 22 Jan 2011 01:51 PM 
The main reason I don't buy LGB stuff is their choice of scale 1.22.5 just looks weird with 1/29th scale, that and it's mostly all euro stuff save a few odds and ends.


I take you don't realize that Aristocraft chose the rather strange and non-standard 1/29 scale specifically so that the size of their *"standard gauge*" model boxcars at the time would match the model size of the existing LGB *narrow gauge* cars and engines which were roughly in 1/22.5 scale.

The LGB *standard gauge* cars and engines are about 1/27 scale or so and Aristocraft or USA Trains cars match those very nicely.


I don't have a photograph handy that shows a mix of LGB, Aristocraft and USA Trains cars but I'm sure someone on mls can help out. I'd like to see a "weird" combination of "standard gauge" boxcars by those three manufacturers. 



No I didn't an I don't really care. Secondly I never mentioned Aristo Craft, I was talking about the specific scale of MY railroad, which is 1/29th scale made up of several manufacturers equipment.

In my opinion, and it was MY opinion, the 1.22.5 scale equipment just looks weird (as in large) when coupled with like 1/29th scale, just as like 1/32nd scale equipment looks to small.

Then you factor in the fact that they have only a few (4 to be exact in the catalog in this thread) of US modern equipment that would even fit the style of MY railroad and there is no reason at all for me to buy most LGB stuff.

If on the other hand I was modeling European railroads I would be interested in LGB equipment, but then again I wouldn't be interested in the Marklin 1/32th scale stuff for the same reasons as above.

But that's just MY Opinion


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By BodsRailRoad on 22 Jan 2011 03:21 PM 
No I didn't an I don't really care. Secondly I never mentioned Aristo Craft, I was talking about the specific scale of MY railroad, which is 1/29th scale made up of several manufacturers equipment.




Sorry - I didn't realize this was a touchy subject.

I just found it weird that you found the LGB equipment too large compared to 1/29 scale after 1/29 scale was chosen to specifically match the size of the existing LGB equipment when Aristocraft and USA Trains started to offer their Large Scale cars.

I only mentioned Aristocraft since they were the first ones with 1/29 equipment, the others followed - and 1/29 scale is always the same ratio to the prototype, regardless who the manufacturer is.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

I have thru the years always found it very strange that under a FORUM subject , like this one is , EUROPEAN MODELS AND PROTOTYPES , and the posting subject , New LGB items for 2011 
that there are people who add the comment , I do not like EURO trains , or I do not like or buy LGB because wah wah wah , , 
why do they feel compelled to do this ? 
Do they go into the live steam forum and post that they have no use for live steam trains and bla bla bla ? 

its just weird


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## SandyR (Jan 6, 2008)

I wish that Marklin/LGB would bring back the little FRR black steamer, and the tiny FRR cars that they had a number of years ago. 
SandyR


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## BodsRailRoad (Jul 26, 2008)

Well I can't speak for other people, but when I log onto this forum I hit the "active topics" button and browse through the "active topics" of the day.

After reading through the thread and other peoples observations about the "New" LGB and where they are going with Marklin in control, I decided to comment on why I have not bought much LGB in the past.

If that is a problem for you I apologize I didn't mean to ruffle the Euro folks.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Dennis Paulson on 22 Jan 2011 04:57 PM 
I have thru the years always found it very strange that under a FORUM subject , like this one is , EUROPEAN MODELS AND PROTOTYPES , and the posting subject , New LGB items for 2011 
that there are people who add the comment , I do not like EURO trains , or I do not like or buy LGB because wah wah wah , , 
why do they feel compelled to do this ? 
Do they go into the live steam forum and post that they have no use for live steam trains and bla bla bla ? 

its just weird











Dennis, I find that I must agree with your observations.


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## seadawg (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Dennis Paulson on 22 Jan 2011 04:57 PM 
Snip, snip
Do they go into the live steam forum and post that they have no use for live steam trains and bla bla bla ? 



yes


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I see that LGB has finally posted the new delivery dates and price list for Feb 2011: 

http://lgb.de/media.php/lgb/pdfs/Liefertermine_LGB-Neuheiten-10_2011-01.pdf 

http://lgb.de/media.php/lgb/pdfs/Preisliste_UVP_LGB_2011.pdf 

Keith


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Cougar Rock Rail on 02 Feb 2011 09:15 AM 
I see that LGB has finally posted the new delivery dates and price list for Feb 2011: 

http://lgb.de/media.php/lgb/pdfs/Liefertermine_LGB-Neuheiten-10_2011-01.pdf 

http://lgb.de/media.php/lgb/pdfs/Preisliste_UVP_LGB_2011.pdf 

Keith 



I find that things with LGB are now steadily moving forward and improving.

The LGB 21930 yellow Kö was just received by dealers in Germany this past Monday.
http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=2765

There was speculation on some German forums that this loco wasn't going to be shipped until March, some people even posted that it would never be shipped since some of the tooling was missing.
This obviously turned out to be false.

What surprised me was that this loco was manufactured in China - something I certainly didn't expect (not that this is necessarily a bad thing)

Not much feedback about the running characteristics of this loco - probably no different than other LGB locos. 
On a positive note, the user guide now includes a small parts drawing which is something new for LGB as far as I know.-- Knut


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

I agree Knut that things with LGB are steadily improving. I think where they get into problems with delivery are where it is out of their control (in other words China!), on such items as the 21930 you mentioned above or the 40920 rungenwagen. I'm sure they are doing their best to work the delivery and QC issues out with China. The picture of the 21930 certainly looks very good. 

Keith


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Thanks for the update. The Koef looks good, unfortunately I have no use for it on my Epoch I/II railway, but it it is a sharp model. It does show a good level of detail that hopefully will cary over to other new products, regardless of country of production.


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

Its a shame this thread wasn't in the generic forums.... LGB has also announced a re-issue of the modern American tank cars and a new centerflow hopper scheme. Finally, it looks like I'll be able to get more cars for my grain & ethanol train models. (Even if I don't like the whole ethanol idea, I can't argue that the trains make money for the roads).


@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css);


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## Pterosaur (May 6, 2008)

Wow, I really like the yellow Kö ! So will this one be available in the US? Just the little Euro diesel I've been looking for. 

I'm truly a train whore, I run two big indoor ovals, American on the outer, Euro (catenary) on the inner. Mostly LGB on both but many others too! I mention this as it makes me doubly happy to see both American and Euro make a come back. I really want the "Blue Bonnet" F-units and the new Arosa cars but fear both are a tad bit beyond the train allowance this year (Blew through my annual budget in the first month and a half!).


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Pterosaur; 

The Feb 2011 issue of Garden Railways shows this locomotive in the Trainworld ad (about page 23 - full page adds are unnumbered). The illustration is near the bottom left of the page. It is currently priced at $491.99. I doubt that it is in stock yet, but at least Trainworld is showing their intention to offer it. 

Regards, 
David Meashey


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## Fritz (Jan 11, 2008)

Many of the new Chinese made Kös have been returned to the maker by dealers or customers already. Better wait for a 2nd run. 
The LGB model is a bit small for 1 : 22,5 http://www.fgb-berlin.de/galerie/details.php?image_id=4667 

Have Fun 

Juergen / Fritz


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Fritz on 10 Feb 2011 07:29 AM 
Many of the new Chinese made Kös have been returned to the maker by dealers or customers already. Better wait for a 2nd run. 
The LGB model is a bit small for 1 : 22,5 http://www.fgb-berlin.de/galerie/details.php?image_id=4667 



The fact that the model is a bit narrower than it should be is not necessary bad.

With the current width it just barely fits within the LGB published clearance gauge

http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=2770

I remember the K-36 locos which were so wide that parts of the layout had to be modified to accomodate them.


As to problems with the Kö - I'm trying to get my head around what is being posted on the German forums.
On GBF someone is complaining that he can't get the loco to run properly with Lenz so people pipe in saying works fine with Massoth.
Then on the SBF exactly the opposite - works fine with Lenz can't get it to work with Massoth.
Seems to me the decoder problem is more an operator issue than an issue with the loco itself.

Other than that there are some smaller issues re some of the assembly, but I'm not sure which one are inherent assembly problems and which ones are unique to a specific sample.

Knut


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

The report by Fritz is 100% correct. I recevied similar phone calls, reporting broken parts, bad packaging, ultra-thin paint job (so bad that if you touch the engine 3-4 times with sweaty fingers the paint is already off).

Yes the dealers and customers have returned the Koef back to Maerklin.

I have advised my customers to wait for release 2 and cancelled their orders for them. We as dealers have a reponsibility to our customers and we know what is good or bad quality. 

The one thing I can't judge is if the Chinese are boycotting Maerklin/LGB or if this is a side effect of cost cutting?


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## jgallaway81 (Jan 5, 2009)

@import url(http://www.mylargescale.com/Provide...ad.ashx?type=style&file=SyntaxHighlighter.css);@import url(/providers/htmleditorproviders/cehtmleditorprovider/dnngeneral.css); I just hope the original LGB packaging for the tankers & hoppers stays the same. It worked, and even if the paint sucks, I'll still have fodder for custom repaints for the roadnames I normally see here in the mid-east coast


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

I just received a picture of the 1:1 prototype of the new LGB Kö and comparing the model to it, I think that LGB did a admirable job with the creation of this Garden Railway loco.
One thing I always keep in mind is that our trains should be designed to handle an outdoor environment which is not scaled down - Brawa apparently didn't consider that; their products were far too delicate for that type of environment and we all know what happened to the Brawa G-Scale product line.


Here is a comparison so you can judge for yourself:











It is true that the model is not as wide as the prototype (scale-wise) but one needs to remember that this was originally a standard gauge loco until 1991 when it was converted to 1000mm narrow gauge.

So it's wider than regular narrow gauge equipment. Had the width been scaled down by 22.5, many people would have had clearance problems.

The original master model was built by Modellbau Biebl in Germany and can be seen here on the FGB website:
http://www.fgb-berlin.de/galerie/details.php?image_id=4611

It was built as close as possible to the prototype but taking into considerations any LGB requirements which of course would include the clearance gauge dimensions.

For anyone interested, I have now also uploaded a slightly modified copy of the user guide to the Gartenbahn Database at 

http://www.gbdb.info/details.php?image_id=2765

I also spoke to a few dealers in Germany who I know personally and trust.
Their experience with this loco doesn't reflect what is posted in some German forums by a couple of individuals.
I'm not saying that their individual complaints aren't valid, but their problems running this loco with DCC are certainly not inherent issues.

One writes he is using the Lenz system and he can't get certain functions to work. So people suggest that for him to use Massoth instead (Pretty ridiculous suggestion).
But then I check on another forum and there the comment is that with Lenz the loco runs perfectly but with Massoth it doesn't run at all.
Really makes you wonder what is going on.

People I know personally are running this loco in analog and they tell me the running characteristics are "silky-smooth",

Gearing is such that the loco can just crawl along and is perfect for shunting work and the maximum speed at full throttle is prototypically low.

I might get some more feedback tomorrow on operation with Lenz and Massoth - id I do I will post it.

Knut


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi all, the May update is now posted: 

http://mediencms.maerklin.de/media.php/lgb/pdfs/Liefertermine_LGB-Neuheiten_2011-05.pdf 

Keith


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