# NCE vs ZIMO



## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

Anybody out there have any luck programing a Zimo sound decoder with an NCE system on the programing track?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

no problem, and the NCE (unless you have really old firmware) will program all the higher numbered CV's 

I have a number of Zimos, all program fine. 

What specific CV's are you programming? Give the CV number please. 

Greg


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

Greg, all the CV's can be accessed on the main. The problem I am having is I cannot change or set the loco's address. The NCE sytem will not let me program on the program track. HELP! 

Kenny


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Sounds like you have extra loads on the program track. Make sure you have lights turned off, and smoke unit turned off. 

Now is the time to give more information about the loco and the installation. 

I've programmed all of my Zimos just fine on the NCE programming track. I'll bet you it is some extra lighting, smoke unit, or perhaps you put in a large capacitor. 

Greg


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

Greg, I have nothing connected. This is a Aristo C-16, new version and I gutted all of the Aristo electronics. Kenny


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

There is something wrong. Do you have any lights connected directly to the track, or the smoke unit? 

The Zimo will work fine on the programming track. 

More information, what model Zimo? Please confirm that there are no other electrical components connected directly to the track pickups, or that they are "off". 

Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Kenny: have you tried turning off the sound before programming the loco address, some systems work best when sound is turned off during programming.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not needed on the Zimo... I have never had to do this. The sound is controlled by the microprocessor, so it does not turn it on in programming mode, just as you do not need to disconnect the motor. 

Greg


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

On my C-16 I found the trucks were wired backwards on one compared to the other. Aristo's board filtered it out. When I removed the board the problem showed up. 
It might be part or all of your problem.... 

John


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

This decoder is MX695LV. I have been thinking about what Greg has said. On the back of the motor there is a small circuit board. This board provides solder connections for the motor, lights, smoke and battery. The smoke and lights are completely disconnected from this board but the motor is not. Today I am going to remove the board completely and see if that is interfering with the programing. I do not know what kind of electronics are on this board but I know that i do not need them. I will keep you posted, Kenny


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Kenny, I'm trying to keep my suggestions to the least work and fooling with existing circuitry, but if it does not become obvious, then this is my next suggestion: Since you have a board with screw terminals, unscrew the 2 track pickup leads, and put in 2 new wires, runt them right from the decoder to the programming track leads. Put the loco on a non-conductive surface, not on the track just to be sure.

Now you know for sure that any loads presented to the programming track are only connected to the 695, not across the programming track leads. 

When this happens, it's almost always some extra load on the programming tracks interfering with the low power signals. I have a 695/690 in an AML Pacific and it works flawlessly. 


Regards, Greg


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

Looks like you were right, Greg. The small circuit board on the back of the motor has additional track pick ups. This meant that the motor was never completely separated from the track. Now I have to figure out how to connect the engines pick ups to the tender's pick ups. In addition, i am going to have to set up a separeate plug between the tender and the engine in order to operate the proline smoke unit!


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Greg: The microprocessor is actually passive during programming, and more generally the microprocessor does not turn things off or on unless its is instructed to do so by the operator via a cab command. Motor and sound are in no way equivalent here. Turning the sound off during programming keep load to a minimum (a speaker is a load ). Keeping the motor connected insures that they is a known load.


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

Well I removed the circuit board from the motor, wired everything direct.........still no good!


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, all the CV's can be accessed on the main. The problem I am having is I cannot change or set the loco's address. 

Sorry Kenny, I'm a little confused here; are you saying you can read and write CV's when it's on the main track, just not on the programming track? 

Keith


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Mohammed, do you believe that on the programming track that the 2 wires from the programming track connect directly to the actual flash ram? That there is no memory controller or microprocessor involved? That would mean that every DCC decoder had a memory controller wired directly the the track pickups and that every CV was stored in the exact same memory address. That is just impossible. There are some "smarts" involved. The mere fact that some decoders pulse the motor when programming a CV indicates some processor is controlling the motor. 

Let's start a new thread on this if you want to discuss further.... I want to focus on solving Kenny's problem. My response is to just a few questions to get you to think about it. 

Kenny, did you EVER put this loco on DCC power? Normally you damage the decoder when you have the motor leads and the track pickups connected together. That is basically about the only way you can destroy a modern decoder. 

If you look at the design of the power circuitry, you can see how this will damage things. 

If you have already put this on the rails on DCC power, what did it do? Take off at full speed? 

My guess is that it is damaged. Sorry. 

Greg 

Regards, Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Kenny: Generally speaking if you can read CVs on the main, the decoder is ok. I know that you are unable to write CV on the programming track , Can you read CV on the programming track ?


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Greg:

Question, do I remember correctly you telling me that there are two different methods with the NCE to program on the programming track? If so I thnk Kenny needs help in exploring both avenues. I am confused, that he can actually program everything on the main, put can't the same process done on the programming track. 

Now there is one option that comes to mind, and that is that NCE's programming track may provide too little current, hence the programming does not work. What's the current on that programming track that NCE can put out? I know that the MX695s use a little more than the MX690s. Any way to boost the current on the NCE?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, actually virtually ALL quality DCC systems can program in 3 different modes on the programming track. 

The Zimo mobile decoders respond to the most modern method, "direct" mode. 

Only very old decoders and some accessory decoders need the other method(s). 

And NO, not only does the NCE programming track provide enough current, but it has more control over the modes that are often "hidden" in other systems. 

I have NEVER had an issue with the MX series, no matter what the size, from Z to HO to G, I have them all, as you well know, since I bought them from you. 

Let's not confuse the issue here... there has been an installation where the motor outputs have been connected to the track inputs. 

This normally destroys ANY DCC decoder, it is the big no no in installations. 

Let's wait for Kenny to tell us if he ever placed it on a "live" DCC track, and if it ever ran. 

Out of the box, the MX69X will be at address 3 unless changed by someone... 

Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

I can provide an update. Kenny has ripped out the circuit board, after which he was able to program the engine address on the Main. His problem remains, however, on the programming track. The good news is that it works.

So in worst scenario we will have to wait until you get one the modern MX695







and you figure it out - as you always do.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Kenny: I do not get it! Earlier you said " I removed the circuit board from the motor, wired everything direct.........still no good". What has changed since that post to make it work now?


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Axel Tillmann on 19 Aug 2011 04:50 PM 
I can provide an update. Kenny has ripped out the circuit board, after which *he was able to program the engine address on the Main*.

I always thought reprogramming the loco address on the main was not permitted per NMRA standards.
All other CVs yes, but not the loco address.


It actually says that on page 9 of the Zimo MX695 manual as well.
Zimo allows change of loco address using POM only with a Railcom compatible system and with Railcom activated which certainly doesn't apply to the NCE system

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Very strange... well, let me know if there is an upgrade program for my MX690 and I'll send it and some $$ for a 695... been wanting to try one... 

Greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 19 Aug 2011 08:35 PM
I have been able to program loco addresses on the main for the last 10 years... on my NCE system. 

Press program, then program on main... you get 3 choices, and you use these to do the configuration, where you select long or short address, motor parameters, etc... 

Greg


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

Greg, as you can tell, Axel and I have been discussing this problem.Here is where I am at right now; programming on the main...no problem. As you said, I could and did set the address on the main. Decoder responds fine on the main. As far as running the loco before the conversion or at any other time before all of this started, did not do that. Right now the decoder is working. As far as the circuit board on the engine goes... at first I tried to do the conversion using the Aristo PnP dummy plug. Working through the Aristo dummy plug, I managed to separate track and motor, still could not program on program track. At that point I decided to remove the Aristo board and wire everything to the decoder directly. On the Aristo board were four wires marked pick ups. I assumed(mistake) that this was all the pickups for the engine. When I got to the small circuit board on the motor, I realized that there were an additional two pick up wires. At this point I removed the board and wired all of the pick ups together. All this time the motor was isolated from the pick ups. I really do not think I damaged the decoder. The sound works great, CVs can be accessed on the main. The motor operates correctly, so far. You guys know a heck of a lot more about this stuff than I do and I will not rule out the possibility that I may have caused a problem, however, the decoder will not respond on the program track. The CAB does not come up with cannot read CV rather it reacts like it sees the decoder. Every value comes up as 255 and any CV I try to set in whatever mode(direct, STD, etc.) defaults to 255 and will not take. I appreciate all the help with this and maybe somebody can learn from my experiance but I think Axel may be on to something regarding the new ZIMO decoders vs the NCE program track. The plot thickens!!!


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Kenny,

Have you double checked all the settings on this page?


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Knut:

Very good thought, that would have been very possible. However, I just checked the C-16 App (from SoundDesgin) and in the orginal 144 is equal to 0. And as far as I know Kenny just did a CV8=8 (total decoder reset) whcih would have brought it back to orignial. But it never hurts to check.

Greg:
Would he do any harm to the NCE if he would put parallel to the decoder a 1K Ohm resistor (left rail to right rail).

Kenny:
If the answer is no, then try this with the programming track.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Sometimes programming is strange if filter capacitors have been added to the V+ line. At Train-Li we add a switch to disable these filter caps in order to facilitate programming by switching the capacitors off. 
This is easier than disassembling engines and removing the decoders or filters.


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

As Axel said, I did a reset on the decoder and CV 144=0. That made no difference.


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

As Axel said, I did a reset on the decoder and CV 144=0. That made no difference.


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By Dan Pierce on 20 Aug 2011 06:57 AM 
Sometimes programming is strange if filter capacitors have been added to the V+ line. At Train-Li we add a switch to disable these filter caps in order to facilitate programming by switching the capacitors off. 
This is easier than disassembling engines and removing the decoders or filters. 



Why were the filter capacitors added in the first place? Are these power buffers?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Many decoders have an extra electrolytic cap across the "internal power supply"... i.e. after the bridge rectifier, and also after any "regulated" supply, like most have a 5v internal supply for the micro. 

Most Zimos have pads to solder an additional capacitor, the QSI has them on board, they come soldered on short wires on Tsunami's, etc. 

But I've never had to remove any "stock" capacitors on Zimos... if I add something larger, I do what Dan says. 

Axel, playing with the load on the programming track sometimes helps, as you well know from our other experiences on other decoders. You cannot "hurt" the programming track output, so go ahead. 

Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Kenny:

If you don't have a 1K Ohm resistor you can definately get one at Radioshak or we can send you. I have two aligatro clmaps attaches to each end so that I can quickly clip it on if I have too. Try with this then on the programming track. The sympton you are experiencing could be related to the "load" recognition. A read out of FF indicates that the NCE CAB interprets the signal on the return as still all 1. Could of course be also a timing problem. But my guess is the resistor could solve it.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Axel - 

Do you know which Central Station's programming track the Zimo 695 has been tested with? 

I doubt that Zimo in Austria tested with an NCE system since it's not very common in Europ[e but quite popular in the US. 

Do we even know if this is a generic problem with NCE and those new Zimo decoders or a unique problem with this specific unit. 

And does the programming using the NCE program track actually not work at all or is just the ACK signal missing. 

Right now I only see random suggestions rather than trying to get an understanding of the problem. 
All the programming track is supposed to do (compared to the main) is to provide current limiting to try to protect the decoder. 
The DCC voltage supplied should be the same as on the main, NCE apparently doesn't do that based on what I just read, it provides a lower DCC voltage on the programming track. 
Maybe that's where the problem is. 

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, I agree, there is a lot of speculation going on. 

I have not found anything Axel sells that I could not program on the NCE, but there are devices with bizarre behavior, like some accessory decoders. 

If the Zimo MX695 does not program as easily and reliably on my NCE system, I guess I will have to stop buying Zimo. 


As I said before, I have Z, HO, and G Zimo decoders and NEVER a problem with them on the main or the programming track. 


Greg


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## Axel Tillmann (Jan 10, 2008)

Knut:

Without an annalyzer on the track, you really can only guess, and no the suggestions with the resitstor are not random, because we had come accross a situation where this helped.

Without a second unit on the identical NCE system we of course do not know, if this is a NCE/695 problem, a 695 problem, a NCE version problem, so therefore we are using some common tricks to reverse engieer the problem.

As far as the test went, all comoon suspects in Europe and of course not NCE.

But I do like your suggestion that the lower voltage might be in the running as well, however, the MXDECUP runs of 12 Volt only as well, so the critical mass would be at about 6 Volt. If NCE would be below this, I can see problem (there is a 5V DCc-d upconverter on the board designed especially for smoth Analog operation, where the sound cicks in already at ~5-6Volt track power while the engine ist still on standstill). What we also know for certain is that the MX695 needs 150-200mA more current than the older MX690s. That's why all the old MXDECUP need to be updated by changing the current limiter values (its a simple upgrade that we gladly perform).

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Axel, 

"Random" was a poor choice of words by me - "educated guesses" would be a better term. 

Just out of interest - what purpose does the 1K resistor across the programming track actually serve? 

Here is the reply by Mark to someone who had problems programming a Soundtrax decoder using the NCE programming track - apparently one NCE system didn't allow programming but a second one did and thedifference at the time was the different DCC voltage on each of the two, otherwise identical NCE systems. 
I have no clue if that problem relates to this one - just sounded similar, maybe someting to look unto closer. 

Knut 

From Mark: 

The NMRA RP covering this only says 

"Basic acknowledgment is defined by the Digital Decoder providing an 
increased load on the programming track of at least 60 mA for at least 5 
mS. 
It is permissible to provide this increased load by applying power to the 
motor or other similar device controlled by the Digital Decoder." 

Decoder operational voltage range on the programming track is the same 
standard as used on the main line. In other words, there is no special 
programming track voltage requirement. What is different is the DCC 
packets sent to the Decoder tell it that it needs to enter service mode. 

Backing up a bit, the problem seems to be that different DCC manufactures 
had different electrical circuits to detect these ACK pulse currents. 
Another problem was the definition of maximum DC static current draw by 
the decoder. Some decoders, like Soundtraxx, drew a very high amount of 
DC current and sometimes overloaded the circuits that drove the 
programming track. Other circuits could not see the ACK pulse from the 
high DC current. It is even possible your seeing a variation in 
tolerance of the circuits performance within the same brand. Bottom line 
was that the many of the original circuits used had problems. 

If your programming track on the command station in question works for a 
standard decoder, then your possibly out of luck. HOWEVER, even without 
the feedback, often you can still program the decoder blindly assuming 
the software allows you to proceed. (I cannot remember what the old 
software did.) 



Best Regards, 

Mark Gurries 
Linear Technology 
Power Supply & Battery charger Applications Engineer/Manager


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

And Mark is pretty much the NCE guru, if you read the NCE forums. 

Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Axel, you wrote:

What we also know for certain is that the MX695 needs 150-200mA *more current* than the older MX690s.


The question really is how much current total does the MX695 need to accept programming?

And the corresponding one - What is the current limiting on the NCE programming track set at worst case?
In the NCE manual all itsays is that there is not enough current to operate a loco.


The other question - does the NCE system used actually have a second, separate output meant only for the programming track or is it the same physical connector as for the main line?

If the second, is the main line disconnected?

Knut


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Nce has separate output for program track, like most traditional systems. 

I don't think the problem here is not enough current to power the unit on the programming track, but the lack of ack back... but I'm going to get one and find out... 

If I get a chance to see what max current on the nce programming track is, I'll post it.. but a simple experiment will suffice... 

If Kenny uses the programming track, and tries to change a cv... if it changes, then there is enough current... the problem he is having is getting the ACK back, which is a different situation, the inability for the command station to "see" the current "draw" from the decoder signalling an ack to a programming command. 

Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Piko got rid of the extra programming track outputs and Zimo is getting rid of them as well with their new Central Station, so I thought NCE might have headed in that direction as well. 

It doesn't sound to me as if not getting the ACK back is the only problem. Even without the ACK signal, the decoder would still accept the programming, but Kenny wrote: 

......however, the decoder will not respond on the program track. The CAB does not come up with cannot read CV rather it reacts like it sees the decoder. Every value comes up as 255 and any CV I try to set in whatever mode(direct, STD, etc.) defaults to 255 and will not take. I appreciate all the help with this and maybe somebody can learn from my experiance but I think Axel may be on to something regarding the new ZIMO decoders vs the NCE program track.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Not defending NCE, since it's a nice feature on the Zimo, but they have always had the philosophy that a current limited (low current) programming track was a good way to make sure you did not damage a decoder if you had an installation problem. 

If you have a programming track that can source 3 amps, then a defective installation can damage hardware with a 3 amp short... 

There's pros and cons to each way of thinking, one way is extra convenience, and the other way is extra safety in my opinion. I'm fine with the second way. 

Knut, I reread what Kenny posted and you quoted... I see no evidence in there that the cv programming did not take, because the statements "defaults to 255" means he was never able to READ the CV, not that he could not PROGRAM the CV. The test would be to go to the programming track. Use direct mode to program CV 1 to a new address (and assuming he is configured for short addresses) see if the new address is responsive on the main. 

An easy, quick test, whose results would be interesting. 

I've programmed many a decoder that I could never read back... some old LGB ones, ones from C.T. Elektronik, and certain accessory decoders. 


Regards, Greg


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Aug 2011 02:55 PM 
Not defending NCE, since it's a nice feature on the Zimo, but they have always had the philosophy that a current limited (low current) programming track was a good way to make sure you did not damage a decoder if you had an installation problem. 

If you have a programming track that can source 3 amps, then a defective installation can damage hardware with a 3 amp short... 

There's pros and cons to each way of thinking, one way is extra convenience, and the other way is extra safety in my opinion. I'm fine with the second way. 

Knut, I reread what Kenny posted and you quoted... I see no evidence in there that the cv programming did not take, because the statements "defaults to 255" means he was never able to READ the CV, not that he could not PROGRAM the CV. The test would be to go to the programming track. Use direct mode to program CV 1 to a new address (and assuming he is configured for short addresses) see if the new address is responsive on the main. 

An easy, quick test, whose results would be interesting. 

I've programmed many a decoder that I could never read back... some old LGB ones, ones from C.T. Elektronik, and certain accessory decoders. 


Regards, Greg 
Greg,

I actually see both extra convenience AND extra safety by having a separate programming track output.
The downside of having a separate output only for the programming track is the extra cost the manufacturer incurs........but that should really only be pennies.

On the Piko Central Station I can see that - they aim for low cost to keep the price low.
But I don't really understand Zimo's rationale to eliminate the programming track output.

There was an "explanation" as to why on the Zimo website but that has now disappeared.
In the current description of the new Central Station, Zimo provides a secondary out put which is listed as being usable to drive a programming track but the current limiting on it is set at 5 amps.
However..........that design is not completed yet - at least I don't think it is, so Zimo could still make changes before the product is shipped.

Anyway - that's a side discussion.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I don't see being able to source 3 amps safe... a 2 amp short in an installation would get a full 2 amps with no indication of a problem... 

I know the idea, you can run the loco on the programming track... in my mind that is an ok feature, but then I would give up the protection against a nasty short in an installation. 

I'm happy with the NCE philosophy. I have a programming track with a simple switch to hook up the programming output and full track voltage and power... easy, safe, no problem. 

Greg


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## mbendebba (Jan 22, 2011)

Posted By krs on 20 Aug 2011 03:19 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Aug 2011 02:55 PM 
Not defending NCE, since it's a nice feature on the Zimo, but they have always had the philosophy that a current limited (low current) programming track was a good way to make sure you did not damage a decoder if you had an installation problem. 

If you have a programming track that can source 3 amps, then a defective installation can damage hardware with a 3 amp short... 

There's pros and cons to each way of thinking, one way is extra convenience, and the other way is extra safety in my opinion. I'm fine with the second way. 

Knut, I reread what Kenny posted and you quoted... I see no evidence in there that the cv programming did not take, because the statements "defaults to 255" means he was never able to READ the CV, not that he could not PROGRAM the CV. The test would be to go to the programming track. Use direct mode to program CV 1 to a new address (and assuming he is configured for short addresses) see if the new address is responsive on the main. 

An easy, quick test, whose results would be interesting. 

I've programmed many a decoder that I could never read back... some old LGB ones, ones from C.T. Elektronik, and certain accessory decoders. 


Regards, Greg 
Greg,

I actually see both extra convenience AND extra safety by having a separate programming track output.
The downside of having a separate output only for the programming track is the extra cost the manufacturer incurs........but that should really only be pennies.

On the Piko Central Station I can see that - they aim for low cost to keep the price low.
But I don't really understand Zimo's rationale to eliminate the programming track output.

There was an "explanation" as to why on the Zimo website but that has now disappeared.
In the current description of the new Central Station, Zimo provides a secondary out put which is listed as being usable to drive a programming track but the current limiting on it is set at 5 amps.
However..........that design is not completed yet - at least I don't think it is, so Zimo could still make changes before the product is shipped.

Anyway - that's a side discussion. 




Knut: There is no question in my mind that a programming track is essential, and I would not buy a system that does not have one (2AMP MAX, is more than plenty).A programming track has many uses. For instance, I will never let anyone put a loco on my layout until I checked it out on the programming track. There are many times when I forget how I configured a particular locomotive, especially when I have not played with it for quite some time. Pull the loco of the shelf, pop it on the programming track, read off a few cv and I am ready to go.


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## krs (Feb 29, 2008)

Posted By mbendebba on 20 Aug 2011 04:23 PM 
Posted By krs on 20 Aug 2011 03:19 PM 
Posted By Greg Elmassian on 20 Aug 2011 02:55 PM 
Not defending NCE, since it's a nice feature on the Zimo, but they have always had the philosophy that a current limited (low current) programming track was a good way to make sure you did not damage a decoder if you had an installation problem. 

If you have a programming track that can source 3 amps, then a defective installation can damage hardware with a 3 amp short... 

There's pros and cons to each way of thinking, one way is extra convenience, and the other way is extra safety in my opinion. I'm fine with the second way. 

Knut, I reread what Kenny posted and you quoted... I see no evidence in there that the cv programming did not take, because the statements "defaults to 255" means he was never able to READ the CV, not that he could not PROGRAM the CV. The test would be to go to the programming track. Use direct mode to program CV 1 to a new address (and assuming he is configured for short addresses) see if the new address is responsive on the main. 

An easy, quick test, whose results would be interesting. 

I've programmed many a decoder that I could never read back... some old LGB ones, ones from C.T. Elektronik, and certain accessory decoders. 


Regards, Greg 
Greg,

I actually see both extra convenience AND extra safety by having a separate programming track output.
The downside of having a separate output only for the programming track is the extra cost the manufacturer incurs........but that should really only be pennies.

On the Piko Central Station I can see that - they aim for low cost to keep the price low.
But I don't really understand Zimo's rationale to eliminate the programming track output.

There was an "explanation" as to why on the Zimo website but that has now disappeared.
In the current description of the new Central Station, Zimo provides a secondary out put which is listed as being usable to drive a programming track but the current limiting on it is set at 5 amps.
However..........that design is not completed yet - at least I don't think it is, so Zimo could still make changes before the product is shipped.

Anyway - that's a side discussion. 




Knut: There is no question in my mind that a programming track is essential, and I would not buy a system that does not have one (2AMP MAX, is more than plenty).A programming track has many uses. For instance, I will never let anyone put a loco on my layout until I checked it out on the programming track. There are many times when I forget how I configured a particular locomotive, especially when I have not played with it for quite some time. Pull the loco of the shelf, pop it on the programming track, read off a few cv and I am ready to go.

See continuation here:
http://www.mylargescale.com/tabid/56/afv/topic/aff/34/aft/121677/Default.aspx

on the general programming track subject.


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

Greg, in the interest of this discussion, I will try to program CV 1 with an new short address on the programing track. Question is, do I have set CV 29 or can I just go to CV 1 and put in a new address? Kenny


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If you are already set to use a short address, then just try CV1 = 4 for address 4, for example... if you are not, then set CV29, but if you are programming CV29 on the main, aren't you using the CFG option that walks you through all that? Much easier than doing all the bits on CV29... 

I'll bet it programs on the program track... 

Greg


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## Kenny (Feb 15, 2008)

Greg, today I used the program track and I was able to change the address of the loco. The display on the CAB showed as if nothing happened but the address did change! Kenny


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