# New Accucraft 28T Shay?!



## RP3 (Jan 5, 2008)

Maybe I've been in a daze and just missed it here, but I just noticed a listing for a 1:20.3 live steam 28T Class B Shay on the Accucraft site. Maybe somebody knows more and "ain't tellin'". But if it's a new product, you sidewinders should have something new and very pretty to look forward to.

Ross Schlabach


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## weaverc (Jan 2, 2008)

Both a wood burning and a coal burning version available.
http://www.accucraft.com/modelc/AC77-217-SHAY.htm#page=page-1


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## JoelB (Jan 3, 2008)

Beautiful! I've been waiting for a more "generic" Shay to show up...gotta start saving my pennies.


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## s-4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Where's the "like" button??? That looks great! 

So do we asume that this is the coal fired version, despite the lower description?....I'm hoping to see a diamond stack version. I'm also surprised to see another Shay, but still no Heisler...


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Well being its a boiler makeover on an existing chassis its a no brainer for Accucraft. People have been asking for a rerun for a while. I like that they did a better job on the boiler details with tapered boiler. Id like to see a more scale open cab shay with the tiny boiler as on the electric.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Jay, if only the actual boiler were tapered... anyway, it is a cute little Shay. Best wishes from Radom, Zubi


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## docstoy (May 15, 2009)

I note the product description lists the construction materials as stainless steel and brass. My earlier Accucraft Shay's trucks are neither, but some weak pot metal which cannot be repaired or added to. Do the later versions actually have brass truck frames? If so, new trucks might be a good bet, as I understand it, the earliest models had a lower gear ration then the later ones, mine is an earlier version, so gear ratio would go up.


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By docstoy on 08 Sep 2012 06:38 AM 
I note the product description lists the construction materials as stainless steel and brass. My earlier Accucraft Shay's trucks are neither, but some weak pot metal which cannot be repaired or added to. Do the later versions actually have brass truck frames? If so, new trucks might be a good bet, as I understand it, the earliest models had a lower gear ration then the later ones, mine is an earlier version, so gear ratio would go up. 

I have had 2 orignal run 2cyl Shays and trucks on both were brass. Not sure about the later runs as there were a few.


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

Doc, try the hi-temp JB Weld for repairing your Shay. I have had 100% success with it on mine. 

Larry


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## Shay Gear Head (Jan 3, 2008)

Mine and many other 3 cylinder Shays have had many broken trucks. They appear to be pot metal - not as advertised. Depending on where the break is it may be repairable. Mine broke in by the bolster and a patch would not have been strong enough. Cliff replaced it as it was a rear truck which he had spares. Front trucks suffer melted insulating bushings from over firing and are the majority of problems. Try running in a Shay-up with 20 some other locos and see if you don't do any damage. Can't hear and can't see the fire. Accucraft has made replacement trucks available for about $350.00 per pair. Maybe someone can tell us what material the replacements are made of.

Anxious to see what difference the wood burner and coal burner details look like. Now if they would only take the electric WSLCo. #15 and make a live steam loco then we would REALLY have something.


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Yep, they were pot metal:










They should re-run the 2 cylinder version. That's a better runner.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Holy Craft!! I cannot believe what I am seeing here. I hope they will make the trucks for this new Shay in steel and/or brass... I only know their Climax, and the trucks look and run strong. Best, Zubi


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

At least one run of the 2-cyl Shays had enough pot metal in the trucks that they were in danger of deforming from the heat & water leaking out of the hole at the bottom of the smokebox. But at the last Summer Steamup, Dave Frediani showed me a trick to defend against this. While your Shay is sitting there building up steam, stick a door shim between the front truck and the bottom of the smokebox!


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## ChaoticRambo (Nov 20, 2010)

This summer I had purchased a 3 cylinder shay. I have had many runs with it and don't regret purchasing it one bit.

Glad to see there is enough demand to make a slightly different model.


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## docstoy (May 15, 2009)

I have an Aster class B shay (the early one). I converted it to butane about 5 years ago. I used a Roundhouse SRRL #24 fuel tank, a Chedder ceramic burner and a gas valve made by someone who I can't remember. I installed RC in the little are in the rear of the cab. One function=Johnson bar. Steam valve and blower are controlled by hand.Steam valve is set before departure and does not need adjusting while running
. I purchased the engine in non-running condition and spent the better part of 3 months trying to diagnose the problem. The engine was torn apart and rebuilt 4 times retimed each time. The problem was two fold. First the manifold was not sealing against the valve chest causing steam leakage in the rear of the engine. The second was a design error on the part of Aster. The displacement lubricator was located about 3mm from the back head and was almost a superheater.Very little or no oil was displaced by water during a run. This causes problems with the seating of the "D" valves. It's possible this problem was exacerbated by the high temperature achieved at the rear of the boiler by the ceramic burner.
I replumbed the steam line to take the lubricator away from the boiler. Then I wrapped all steam lines with cotton cord to insulate them. This engine will crawl down the track at as slow a speed as you want. I also have an Accucraft 3 cyl shay which has been heavily customized and also uses RC. Both are neat engines and good runners but to see the Stephenson's valve gear thrashing away on the Aster is a real treat. Not a lot of room in the Aster for RC but it can be done with the new micro servos and2.4 gH receivers.


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## JEFF RUNGE (Jan 2, 2008)

Interesting how docstoy converts an engine to butane and it becomes Asters "design error". ???


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## Dr Rivet (Jan 5, 2008)

docstoy 

I am with Jeff on this one. The original locomotive was alcohol fired so the the operating temperature in the vicinity of the lubricator would be much less as designed. It works the way Aster designed it. You altered the fundamental thermal characteristics of the entire system. YOU are responsible for the altered behavior of the displacement lubricator, not Aster. There is NO design error. 

This is fundamentally the same as individuals who put a low restriction exhaust system on a Japanese "rice burner" automobile without doing anything else... and then complain that they have destroyed the rings and burned the valves... and want Honda, Subaru, Toyota... to fix it. The engine worked the way it was designed by the manufacturer and the owner modified it.


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## docstoy (May 15, 2009)

Easy boys, you'll note in my original message that I conceded the temperature in the area of the back head was significantly higher with the ceramic burner installed, and this would affect the displacement lubricator. I make no apologies for the conversion. Numerous postings have complained about the run speed of this engine as produced. My conversion resulted in a smooth, slow running shay. If the original plan was so good why was the reissue not alcohol fired?


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## Kovacjr (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By docstoy on 15 Sep 2012 06:00 PM 
If the original plan was so good why was the reissue not alcohol fired? 

Id say because many of the Narrow Gauge buyers do not run Alcohol.


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## livesteam53 (Jan 4, 2008)

A lot of us Narrow Gauge bunch believe it better to drink Alcohol while running our locomotives.


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## docstoy (May 15, 2009)

My reason for the switch from alcohol to butane was twofold. First the butane system uses less room allowing the installation of a minimal RC system. Secondly the alcohol firing system is dependent in large part on stack air movement to coax the fire into the boiler area. That means either the blower must be run without stop, or the engine must be run at a relatively high RPM to use exhaust steam to create draft. I wished to do neither, blower use meant another servo, and high speed engine running meant high speed engine movement, one of the things this engine is criticized for. By having a heat source under the boiler not dependent on draft, I can concentrate on the other variables. 

As I am old, and my empire is ground level with plantings, not an elevated oval, I need RC to control the engines on grades and with varying loads. 

Lest one think that Aster never makes mistakes or "design errors" I beg to differ, Thier roster has a number of less then stellar performers. I have 3 Aster engines, one, the Climax, has a steam pick up inside the boiler which causes the engine to run "wet" unless the boiler water level is kept well below the 3/4 full mark. A simple steam dome design would have corrected this problem.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Posted By Kovacjr on 15 Sep 2012 06:06 PM 
Posted By docstoy on 15 Sep 2012 06:00 PM 
If the original plan was so good why was the reissue not alcohol fired? 

Id say because many of the Narrow Gauge buyers do not run Alcohol. 
The reason for doing the second run in gas was because the buyers wanted it in gas. The way the new Aster models are done for the Japanese market is somewhat different than the models for the USA, UK, or Europe. The few recent narrow gauge projects, such as this Shay or later Krauss, were chosen by the Japanese buyers from a list of potential models, and a lot of options were considered in an online questionnaire to come up with the final design. Some aspects of the design were even implemented while the prototype was being built, following the advices of the live steam experts here in Japan. This is a much more open design trajectory than that of the export models which are commissioned by the importers. So essentially what docstoy wrote is right, Aster followed modellers ' choice on that Shay. Best wishes from Radom, Zubi


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## xo18thfa (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By livesteam53 on 15 Sep 2012 08:33 PM 
A lot of us Narrow Gauge bunch believe it better to drink Alcohol while running our locomotives. 
Mark: You are so totally hard core narrow gauge, you drink the stuff that comes out of the lubricator.


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## docstoy (May 15, 2009)

Maybe someone more conversant with the scale/guage definitions can tell me if the original Aster Shay or it's re-issue is in fact narrow gauge. Modeled after the Ali Shan shay was that a narrow gauge engine? My Accucraft Shays are clearly narrow gauge, the cylinders lie outside the rail, the Aster shay does not appear to have this characteristic. Issued in 1/28 scale according to web site. The reason I ask is that someone suggested the butane switch was to satisfy narrow gauge modelers. I can accept the change to satisfy the Japanese market.


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## zubi (May 14, 2009)

Docstoy, Aster Alishan Shay is modelled after 30inch prototypes from Taiwan's Alishan Forest Railway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alishan_Forest_Railway The models are 1:22.5 scale, more or less. The original release was mistakenly denoted 1:28 in the manuals. Should have been 1:23 - 3 looks so similar to 8, someone made a mistake there. The recent re-release Shays are denoted as 1:22.5. The reason there is not enough overhang on this engine is that the gauge is somewhat too broad - it is 45mm while it should be 34mm in 1:22.5 scale. This is 11mm gauge difference and some overhang was obviously reduced. Best wishes, Zubi


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## Taperpin (Jan 6, 2008)

There is asimple mod to reduce this front truck damage.. 
A flame deflector [sheet brass] mounted under the smokebox shaped so if flame does spill from to much fire, it doesnt go directly onto the wheels bushes..done afew after damage.. no further problem. 

Gordon.


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## Gary Woolard (Jan 2, 2008)

Gordon, would you happen to have a remplate drawing for that brass deflector? My door shim is getting kinda' toasty!


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## chooch (Jan 2, 2008)

Here is all you need. This modification was recommended by Larry Herget some years ago and has worked as advertised. I used a piece of thick brass sheeting cut to the size I needed to protect the truck. I then drilled and tapped a mounting hole as shown below. Quick and easy fix.


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