# Changing from track to battery power



## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

Hello everyone!


It's been a VERY long time since I was last up here on the Forum. A little background: I have been flying R/C aircraft since 1980 and am familiar with the LiPo batteries but not in conjunction with model trains. Back in 2006 I made an experimental aircraft project become a higher priority than model railroading (my bad) and it took all of my time and financial resources. My time is something I will still need to put in to the plane project because it is at the “soon to be finished” point (90% complete and 90% to go) but the BIG financial part is behind me. Before starting this plane build, I had decided to build an overhead railroad in my house. I already had the 30th anniversary train set from LGB for under the Christmas tree but it just seemed to be “under foot” and kinda in the way. I decided to go with an overhead railroad. Then I got my hands on a pair of U25-B locomotives and built the overhead. In time, various other cars were acquired and then I got a Bachmann Big Haulers “The Pennsylvanian”. I have (primarily) Aristocraft track but it is mixed in with some of the LGB track form the original LGB set. 


My track stays dirty because I just don't run the trains often enough. I have a grand child, with friends, and another grand child on the way. I don't have to tell ya, kids love trains (this kid especially)


Soooooooooooo, I am now wanting to convert to just batteries for the trains and I was hoping that someone here could lead me in the right direction to make the change over. I would like to run all four locos at the same time, or at the least, have them on standby ready to run. My track system is a single loop in 1 room with a siding now but soon the layout will go between two rooms with a second siding. There will be a crossover at a central point with the ability to isolate or join the two loops. I just didn't know if this same control system can be used to manipulate three different brands of locos.


Thanks for any and all help,


Robert


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

You probably won't have any issues with batteries. You will need an r/c system of TX and rx like a plane. Most RR systems have an integrated rx+escape motor control and additional sound system. 

There's an industry std p+p but your locos problem don't have the socket or wiring for it. You can wire them the same way though.

Search the MLS Power and Sound forum for "best " and you will get lots of advice.


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

Well dang, I searched the Power and Sound forum for "best " and got the following message:

The following words are either very common, too long, or too short and were not included in your search : *best*

I will go back to the Battery and RC section and look around a bit.

But thanks for steering me in the right direction Pete.


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## mdwildcat04 (Mar 11, 2013)

I started off copying this site...
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/2point4GHz.htm

and have sence moved on to the Jr. Trottle found in the garden railroad articles from April, June and August of 2014. It works good, and the community over there is working on firmware to expand it.

If you just want a drop in and go system with basic sound, the crest revolution looks like a great system.

just my $0.02


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## Larry Green (Jan 2, 2008)

I suggest you check out Del Tapporo's products at: gscalegraphics.com. I am using his basic RC system to control both speed and onboard sound in two engines, powered by rechargeable AA cells in Radio shack battery holders. Simple install, and his service is excellent.

Larry


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

I agree with Larry Del's a nice guy to work with too.
http://www.gscalegraphics.net/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

John


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

Air Wire and the Revolution are the other two big names in battery control.

http://www.reindeerpass.com/crest.aspx
http://www.reindeerpass.com/cvp-products-air-wire.aspx


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks to everyone that responded to my inquiry.

I am going to start out slow and low dollar and see how it goes. I plan to follow the lead from this site for now.



mdwildcat04 said:


> http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/satr/2point4GHz.htm


Thanks again,

Robert


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## FlagstaffLGB (Jul 15, 2012)

Just a quick thought....since you seem to be more dedicated (at least for now) with the RC planes and are looking for some cheaper options, you might just want to do a good cleaning, oil or wax the tracks to keep them clean longer (dust will allows come back in a week or so), but stick with the track power for now. Save a lot of money and you won't have to convert anything. You indicated that the trains are "over head", so I'm assuming a ceiling mounted system? Used to run my Christmas train and LGB mogul around the living room ceiling...maybe once every 3-4 months, and it never had any serious problems. Batteries are neat, but it will get expensive quickly. Ed


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

FlagstaffLGB said:


> Just a quick thought....since you seem to be more dedicated (at least for now) with the RC planes and are looking for some cheaper options, you might just want to do a good cleaning, oil or wax the tracks to keep them clean longer (dust will allows come back in a week or so), but stick with the track power for now. Save a lot of money and you won't have to convert anything. You indicated that the trains are "over head", so I'm assuming a ceiling mounted system? Used to run my Christmas train and LGB mogul around the living room ceiling...maybe once every 3-4 months, and it never had any serious problems. Batteries are neat, but it will get expensive quickly. Ed


Thanks for the advice Ed. I am still mulling this over and haven't made a decision. The actual costs of the new RC equipment is under $100 to operate two trains. As for the batteries, well, I am still trying to determine what "size" and how batteries I need to use for each consist. Lipo batteries are expensive, powerful. light weight but more expensive. NiHM batteries are the opposite. I already have some batteries that may work. I have the chargers in place all ready so that's another cost I can skip.

As for cleaning - a dadgum pain in the caboose. The system I use for suspension has vertical threaded rods every 16 inches. The track sits on painted particle board. I just wanna get clear of cleaning. I even tried that super stuff called Tarnex - useless.

Thanks again.


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## Mike Toney (Feb 25, 2009)

I also run overhead trains in our living room, but I dont seem to have the issues you do. Could be I run nothing but LGB equipment, and thier track skates help in keeping the train clean, even after sitting mostly unused during the summer months. Its rare that I have to actualy clean the rails. I do have to take the vacuum to the shelf to rid it of dust bunnies, but thats about it. I have been gradualy gathering stuff to convert my stuff to battery/RC. I picked up a box of Locolinc by Keithco RC gear from a member of the forum and have consulted with Robbie from RLD hobbies on what battery I need for my LGB 2095 Austrian diesel. Its more of my outdoor railway that is pushing the move to battery power. I know that as I age, getting down on my knees to polish the rails will become more difficult. I do not like having dedicated battery trailing cars, so the battery will be onboard in the diesel. And according to Robbie, give me 4-6 hours of run time with dual motors, lights and possibly even if I add one of LGB's self contained sound blocks to the engine. Good luck with your conversion. Mike


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Robert

I use Li-Po batteries for the most part for trains and planes. I have some 4S1P and 5S1P inexpensive batteries starting at $16.95 @ 3000mAh, 4S1P hard case 5000mAh @ $24.85, 5S1P 3000mAh @ $19.98 these work great IMO... You don't need high discharge batteries for trains.

I also purchased some 4S1P Li-Ions 2200mAh batteries for $20.00 or so a while back.

Batteries don't have to be expensive....

Michael


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

Mike Toney said:


> I also run overhead trains in our living room, but I dont seem to have the issues you do. Could be I run nothing but LGB equipment, and thier track skates help in keeping the train clean, even after sitting mostly unused during the summer months. Its rare that I have to actualy clean the rails. I do have to take the vacuum to the shelf to rid it of dust bunnies, but thats about it. I have been gradualy gathering stuff to convert my stuff to battery/RC. I picked up a box of Locolinc by Keithco RC gear from a member of the forum and have consulted with Robbie from RLD hobbies on what battery I need for my LGB 2095 Austrian diesel. Its more of my outdoor railway that is pushing the move to battery power. I know that as I age, getting down on my knees to polish the rails will become more difficult. I do not like having dedicated battery trailing cars, so the battery will be onboard in the diesel. And according to Robbie, give me 4-6 hours of run time with dual motors, lights and possibly even if I add one of LGB's self contained sound blocks to the engine. Good luck with your conversion. Mike





Michael Glavin said:


> Robert
> 
> I use Li-Po batteries for the most part for trains and planes. I have some 4S1P and 5S1P inexpensive batteries starting at $16.95 @ 3000mAh, 4S1P hard case 5000mAh @ $24.85, 5S1P 3000mAh @ $19.98 these work great IMO... You don't need high discharge batteries for trains.
> 
> ...


Thanks to both of you. The more information I get the better my decision of choice will be.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Michael, what do you see as the advantages of the Li-Po over the Li-Ion packs? The prices are certainly attractive enough. I can see the smaller form factor being an advantage, too, especially in installations where you would charge the battery in place. The Li-Ion packs I use leave me nothing to complain about, but I'm always looking for alternatives, especially in small-quarters installations.

Later,

K


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Kevin,

COST, form factor, mAh capacity, battery life, ability to work at rated VOLTAGE and provide CURRENT under load, no need to parallel batteries to garner capacity (and the associated problems therein), cell balance pigtails. 

Very inexpensive accessory gadgets that display voltage, make noise, flash lights when battery reaches a safe state of discharge and or suggest cells are out of balance.

All of my batteries are removable thus far with a few exceptions. 

Michael


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

Here is what I'm going to try.

I have purchased an ESC from HobbyKing, 20A for brushed motors.



Once it arrives, one of the locos will get an experimental transformation to battery control. 
For this experiment I will use a transmitter/receiver/battery combo that I already have from the aircraft.

If the experiment is successful, I will then convert the remainder of my locos to battery using the following items...

The HobbyKing 6 ch transmitter - that will eventually operate all three locos. The transmitter comes with a receiver.



(2) more receivers.



(3) new battery packs.



and (2) more ESC's.

I already have the micro switches for direction control and some batteries. 
All of which will cost less than $120 (including shipping).

I will post my results as they are accomplished.


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## Michael Glavin (Jan 2, 2009)

Robert,

That equipment will work fine...

Micro switches for directional control? Why not buy a FWD-REV ESC?

Michael


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

... and.. what voltage rating is given on this ESC?

I had to go up to a 35A esc.. to get 22v .. years ago in a large loco I was playing with...

I know life gets better.. but check the rating on the esc...

SD


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

Michael Glavin said:


> Robert,
> 
> That equipment will work fine...
> 
> ...


I will look into the reversible ESC's but right now I have the switches for the standard ESC's and they are only about $5.25 ea.



SD90WLMT said:


> ... and.. what voltage rating is given on this ESC?
> I had to go up to a 35A esc.. to get 22v .. years ago in a large loco I was playing with...
> 
> SD


HobbyKing claims - Lipo Cells: 2-3 and NiMH : 4-10 so I should be alright with the 3 cell 11.1V.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

If this is an overhead, do you have to get on a ladder to charge the batteries?

Are you sure that just changing to stainless steel rail would not be cheaper?

Be sure to add up the cost of the batteries and use lithiums if you want everything ready to go, unless you have 4 of the right chargers at hand.

Greg


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks for your insight Greg.



Greg Elmassian said:


> If this is an overhead, do you have to get on a ladder to charge the batteries?


The railroad bed sits at about 80" off the floor and I have to use a kitchen step ladder to clean the track and wheels, charging the batteries will not be any more of a hassle. I plan to have external, low visibility charging jacks as well.



Greg Elmassian said:


> Are you sure that just changing to stainless steel rail would not be cheaper?


Stainless steel track would be way more expensive than the purchase of the RC equipment. My layout is an oval measuring 10' wide and 21' long with 2 switches and a 15' siding.



Greg Elmassian said:


> Be sure to add up the cost of the batteries and use lithiums if you want everything ready to go, unless you have 4 of the right chargers at hand.
> 
> Greg


The batteries are only going to cost $10 each - $30 total for 3 (LiPoly).
Transmitter with receiver is $30
The receivers are $10.80 ea. or 2 more for $21.60
I need 1 more servo at $3
and 2 more ESC's at $5.30 or $10.60 for 2


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## riderdan (Jan 2, 2014)

This isn't really what you're asking, but I bought a used LGB track cleaner for <$200 and never clean the track by hand anymore  But my layout is outside.


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## Alan-1956 (Oct 23, 2015)

Mate,
If you are interested have a look at this web site.

The site shows you various options, transmitters, battery packs etc and has every thing from top to bottom in regards to what you will require to convert to Radio Control.

Yes it is in Australia but at least everything is laid out on the site and well worth a look and gives you plenty of options.


http://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/rcs-btl-australia

Best regards


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

> HobbyKing claims - Lipo Cells: 2-3 and NiMH : 4-10 so I should be alright with the 3 cell 11.1V.


Errrr. . . Just checking that you know large scale models work on 14-24V, not the 12V standard for smaller trains.

The Bachmann 4-6-0 will be fine on 11V but better on 14. The diesels might need 20V.


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## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert, I run DCC but put Del's Railboss and batteries in my Galloping Goose and am very pleased. Especially if you want the kids to run the train as it's simpler and smaller to hold. I got the 22v Li-Ion pack and a charger from cordless renovations.

-Jim


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Robert,

I run NIMH 14.4 V batteries in a Bachmann Connie and a brass Accucraft C-19, BOTH with Airwire and Phoenix sound. I run Li-ion 14.8 V batteries in a brass Berlyn Work Goose #6 with Airwire and Phoenix sound.


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

Errrr. . . Just checking that you know large scale models work on 14-24V, not the 12V standard for smaller trains.

Hmmm, did not realize this. So damage will occur if I use the 11.1V?


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## SD90WLMT (Feb 16, 2010)

@ 11.1 volt max....
No.. damage will not occur..
Your useable speed may not match the speed you desire... dependent on loads to loco...

The esc will control it down to as low a voltage.. such that it won't move ... but as you increase throttle the train will move faster.. just not likely as fast as you may want....

SD


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

SD90WLMT said:


> @ 11.1 volt max....
> No.. damage will not occur..
> Your useable speed may not match the speed you desire... dependent on loads to loco...
> 
> ...


Perfect. I will use the 11.1V ESC for the experiment and decide if the train runs fast enough to suit me.


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## swashplate (Dec 9, 2012)

I got the 20A brushed ESC, rewired the motors for the battery, used a 72 MHz receiver and my old 8ch FM/PCM radio. Put it all together and eureka - the train runs great. Getting a little glitch in the directional servo from antenna proximity but all that should change once the 2.4 GHz system is installed.

Another small inconvenience is the Bachmann 4-6-0 has a sound system in the coal tender so the speaker and supporting electronics are a little in the way. I may remove the equipment, (I have rarely used it), just to see what space I have. Also I may be getting some magnetic "disturbance" from the speaker magnet.



swashplate said:


> Perfect. I will use the 11.1V ESC for the experiment and decide if the train runs fast enough to suit me.


 The speed is very nice for my indoor use. It looks to be close to scale, maybe a tad faster.

Thanks for everyone's help with this project. The Aristo diesels will be the last thing I tackle.


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