# G scale traction, questions galore



## Chewbacacabra (May 6, 2010)

So I am returning to model railroading after a very long absence. I am planning a small garden railroad based on the Pacific Electric in Southern California. My garden will be all cacti and succulents, with an emphasis on "weird looking". 
I have some questions...

So, what kind of track should I use? I bought a piece of LGB track just to use as reference but as we all know, it is very expensive. I am trying to be as thrifty as possible. I am planning on powering the railroad via overhead wires so conductivity of the rail isn't as much of an issue for me. I am not a huge scale nut but more realistic is always nice. The line is also going to be located in Southern California, so outside of sunny days, weather isn't much concern. What are your suggestions?

Also, regarding the issue of overhead power. I know it can be done, but beyond that, I am stumped. What kind of wire should I use? I was planning on building the overhead poles from scratch (probably scale timber) as the LGB ones are too Euro looking for my tastes. 

Thank you for your insight. I have found that the Internet is the best place for hobby minded people to come together.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Even with overhead wires, you will need conductivity in at least one of the rails. One rail is part of the electrical path. The overhead wire substitutes for the second rail.

Chuck 


Many years ago I ran an LGB rack loco off of the overhead wire. It added a nice touch to my train in Denver. It was on two levels and the cog connected the two levels.










I used the LGB cantenary system. It worked very well.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

As for the type of track, almost any brand of brass track will do. LGB, at the moment, can be pricey. Check Ebay for it. Aristocraft track is slightly less expensive, and if they are running their track sale, in the winter months I believe, then you can save some money. Piko track seems to be reasonable also. I am not familiar with USA Trains trackage from Charles Ro. 

For the catenary system, I have found that 14 or 16 gauge stranded wire works well. I have made my own support poles out of everything from copper tubing to pressure treated wood.
You can buy the wire at any electrical supply in spools of 500 feet. It can be had with insulation, which you will need to remove, or bare. If you can get it without the insulation, you will save time not having to remove it. I say this because all of my catenary wire came from the job site. Electricians would give me half spools, or wire they might have sent back to their shop. It usually had insulation. beggars can't be chooser. It helped that I was the job super. I would take the insulation off by tying one end of the wire to a fixed point, and spooling out about 75-100 feet. Then I would take a utility knife and with the wire taught, run the knife blade along one side of the wire, exposing the copper strands. After I had the insulation removed, I would place the end of the wire into a drill chuck, tighten the chuck, and turn the drill on forward. With the opposite end of the wire still attached to the fixed point, the strands would become tighter. remember to keep tension on the wire with the drill. Make sure the wire is secure in the chuck. This operation actually makes the wire alittle stiffer, and easier to work with. As for positioning the poles, I would place a pole at the end of each straight tangent of track. Stretch the wire between the poles, and tie it off. Then you can place poles along the stretched wire to control the wires elevation and side to side position. On the curves, place poles accordingly so that sections of straight wire contact the pantogragh for as long a distance as possible. This sounds too complicated, but it is simple geometry. I have posted some photos that may give you some idea of what I am talking about.





























































I have since discontinued my use of catenary systems. Not because they were troblesome, but because of
grandchildren. When they are a bit older, I may redo my system.


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## Allan W. Miller (Jan 2, 2008)

Very nice work, Dan! I love seeing electrics operate in the way that electrics should be run.


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## lownote (Jan 3, 2008)

The cheapest track is aluminum, but it does not conduct electricity as well as brass or stainless and it's softer, so it's more easily bent when something/person steps on it. So if you go all overhead power, aluminum would be much cheaper. 

To save money, you could also consider code 250 track. It looks much more realistic and because there's less metal in it, it's cheaper. RLD Hobbies, a forum sponsor, is now selling code 250 track. If you really want cheap, and never plan to run power though the track, Train-LI is now selling plastic track. Not sure how UV resistant it is


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## itsmcgee (Jan 4, 2008)

Madman 
Very nice job. How did you attach the wire to your overhead supports?


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## Pete Thornton (Jan 2, 2008)

Check out the Q-Car Company * http://www.qcarcompany.com/ * who supply parts for O-scale overhead electrics. They (used to) sell phosphor bronze wire for overhead - it's springy and straight and ideal. [I note their website says it is not currently available?]


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## Bill Swindell (Jan 2, 2008)

Try this site for traction parts: http://www.lightrailproducts.com/201-210/201.wire.htm


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## vsmith (Jan 2, 2008)

HLW sold an PE version of their Interurban as well as a PE version of the Mack and maybe a PE version of the Birney , might want to start saving your pennies as they are the only company that offered PE equipment and they are getting much harder to find nowadays. 

Try picking up used track on Ebay, one nice thing about traction you can use not only R-1 (4 foot diamter) curves but also the 31" diameter curves Aristo sells as a circle for their eggliners to run on.


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

Posted By Allan W. Miller on 07 May 2010 03:57 AM 
Very nice work, Dan! I love seeing electrics operate in the way that electrics should be run. 


Thanks Allen. Not very scale like, but here are a few photos.


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## Chewbacacabra (May 6, 2010)

Thank you all for your input. Seeing traction railways in the wild is really exciting. I am probably just going to spring for the LGB stuff. I know it is of good quality. 
Madman, you're the man for going through with it! 

Chuck, the cogwheel is really neat. How did you make it? I like "alternative" railroading methods quite a bit. 

I just gained access to the PE archives at the Huntington Library. My X-Acto is sharp and primed for some heavy scratchbuilding. The wife said I had to get a loco together before she'd let me spring on the track. 

My first project is a PE freight locomotive : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileacific_Electric_1624.jpg


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB sold two engines with a gear drive in the bottom of the motor block. One was the little electric shown in the picture and the other was a little steam engine (0-6-0). The prototypes for these engines ran on narrow gauge lines in Switzerland. 

LGB also sold plastic strips with teeth and clamps that fit between the rails for the gears on the bottom of the locomotive. It works very well, just like in the 1:1 rack railroads around the world. 

Chuck


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Operating with about 200 feet of track underLGB catenary , I am hooked big time on electric trains . I just came in from running 3 trains on the layout on the same track at the same time without DCC . 
I was operating a train on track power , and one on the overhead wire , and the third with onboard battery and rc . 

The LGB catenary works very well outside , it is mostly noy available now / or very expensive . 
Attaching the poles too the track maintains the correct relationship between track and train and the overhead wire , especially if you have frost heave . 
You might start with a HLW electric and a small loop of track ................and experiement from there , on a small setup to begin with and see , what works for real , for you . 


































Please check out my videos like this one .............. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkjhCvL7FOQ


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## Madman (Jan 5, 2008)

I knew you would jump in here Dennis.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

There are so few of us operating electric trains from the overhead wire , "we"have to respond , and spread the joy ! 
Its about 8:30 PM and I just now came in from dark thirty operations , they are as good or better at night time .........................even a little Bachmann open air trolley was looking good all lit up at night . 


I said a prayer of thanks out there tonight , to be retired , and have my elevated layout , and be here to enjoy the many blessings , yep , it was one of those type evenings of operating the trains , beautiful .


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## Jim Francis (Dec 29, 2007)

*Chewbaca**, I don't know where you are, but if you are close to Southern California, the real 1624 is at the Orange Empire Trolley Museum in Perris, CA.*

*Jim*


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Chewbacca,

This is my 1.5 scale P.E. 1620 series.










I have drawings for this engine to build in "G" scale, if you are interested.


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## John J (Dec 29, 2007)

Do you have to clean the over head wires like you do traditional tracks? If so, How do you clean the over head wire? 
I think the Layout posted here in this thread are great. I really like the over head system


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Yes the wire needs attention , NOT as much as the rail does , but some attention . 
When running track power or on board battery power , I still have the pantographs up to the wire , it helps clean it , and even sometimes a piesce of scotchbrite pad wrapped around the pantograph contact surface willl also clean the wire , you just have to keep putting the pad back on as it comes off . 
But it does not require as much cleaning as the rail . 

I know its clean when I run the little 4 wheel loco to the left of this post , and there is no headlight blinking at all







like last night .


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Gary I also would be interested in the G scale drawings for the locomotive ? 
Thanks


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis, 

I have a full series of electronic drawings (done in MasterCAM) when I built my second Baldwin P.E. 1600 for a college project. The parts are still in a garage at my retired professor's home in Northern Cal! We have enough parts for seven of these! 

Right now these drawings are scaled for the 1.5 inch per foot model shown in the photo (BTW, the little boy in the gondola, is now 26 years old and will graduate from UCLA this December, after his hitch in the Army in Iraq). All I have to do is rescale the drawings to 1/20.3, 1/22.5, 1/24 or 1/29. Just let me know which scale would be your preference. I will send them as .pdf files. I would need your e-mail address to attach the various files. Some of them are large file sizes. Unless of course you have MasterCAM on your computer, I could send them directly in that format. Let me know.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Thank you and Yes Gary , pdf files would be best for me , 1/22.5 , for size , now how to get my email address to you ?


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis, 

My e-mail address is: 

[email protected]


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## Chewbacacabra (May 6, 2010)

Hooray! The build is off to a grand start. I'm obligated now to get a loco up and running before summer gets too late. 

I'm headed out to Perris next weekend actually, to check out the 1600 and the Red Cars (next project) 

Thank you all for your input. How I love the internet.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Email sent , thanks again Gary . 

Chewbacacabra , the rumor was at one time that Accucraft was going to make the PE red cars in large scale , man that would have been nice !


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

Dennis and Chewbacacabra, 

I received both e-mails from you guys. I'm off to the dentist for a little work and when I get back, I'll get some drawings organized and send them off to you.


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## Chewbacacabra (May 6, 2010)

Good luck at the Dentist, that is usually an adventure. 

Thank you for the plans, I'll keep the forum updated on the construction. 
An Accucraft PE unit would be incredible. I can hear it now: "sorry dear, we're not going to make the mortgage this month, but check out this new toy I got!" 

Heartland Locomotive Works makes a generic Red Car style piece, but I feel that it is too toy-like in appearance. Plus, I am a compulsive scratchbuilder, so its mostly just that.


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## Gary Armitstead (Jan 2, 2008)

I sent the first plans of a side view and front view to Chewbacacabra just now with some dimensions to give a rough idea of the side of this loco in 1/29. I'm going to make a list of the guys that want these and the scale they prefer. I'm going to lose track here very quickly. THX to all who have asked for these.


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## ohioriverrailway (Jan 2, 2008)

Chewbacacabra, welcome to the fraternity. 
I've been running outdoors with single overhead for about 7 years, give or take. It's straight wire with brass ears from LRP and wooden dowels for line poles. Aristo track. You might want to join the largescaletrolley group on Yahoo -- no charge, lots of like-minded folk. If you're near Chicago on July 3-4 you can meet with some of us at Illinois Railway Museum as we meet there annually. 

 Half of my website   www.orery.com    deals with construction and operation of my garden railroad. Feel free to ask questions.


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## Dennis Paulson (Jan 2, 2008)

Great dwgs , thanks Gary , and now I see why LGB was made in Gummi scale , at 1/22.5 scale the loco is 5 1/4 inches wide , whoa . 

So maybe the 1/29 scale size would be better to be more the same size as everything else , boxcars , etc . 

Chewbacacabra the OhioRiverRailway is modeled beautifuly by Rick , modeled as it should be .......................his town section and street running , I swear I have been there and seen the real one somewhere . I really like his videos of the ORRy


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