# Plug-and-Play Tsunami?



## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Link to post on Bachmann Forum

Interesting post on the Bachmann forum relative to the updated Climax. Soundtraxx is evidently making a plug-and-play DCC decoder for it. I asked Jack Lynch if he knew if it was going to be compatible with their other socket-based locos, and if it was going to be made available separately. At the very least, it may be a chance for those purchasing the Climax who aren't going to use DCC to make a little of their money back by selling the board to others. Be interesting to see once it comes out...

Later,

K


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Jack also said:

"As far as RC and sound goes you would probably be better off purchasing the non-DCC version and plugging in your choice of control system and sound board (it's pretty simple)."[/b]*
*
If that is so, there will be no need to purchase the DCC version.

I would be interested to know if any provision has been made for placement (and charging) of suitable batteries.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Wonder what the price difference is going to be. Might be worth it if they can be put in other locos. 

Later, 

K


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

About batteries, I would guess no.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Treeman on 16 Nov 2010 10:04 PM 
About batteries, I would guess no. 


That probably depends on how hard the boiler is to get into.

I also wonder if the earlier chuff timer has been replaced with something that actually works.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, if it is Soundtraxx, then it must be a Tsunami derivative, since they could not afford to make an entire new decoder for the large scale market. My guess is the "Quasinami" repackaged. 

The Quasinami does work well, except for it's voltage limit. It also has "auto chuff" so it can be made independent of any chuff contacts/switches/sensors. 

Traditionally, the DCC equipped locos have had a list price of $200 more, but, of course everything is speculation at this point. 

If the "new" decoder has the same voltage sensitivity, it won't be universally accepted, no matter whether it's available separately or not. 

Regards, Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I've known about the new boards (not necessarily Ames Super Socket compatible) for a while. 
Soundtraxx at least internally is calling the new LS sound the "Sierra Replacement", which it in no way is. 
I did tell them so. 

If you have dcc-only-triggerable sound, thread them. 

If you are going to spend all this time developing a Sierra replacement, at least build a replacement, not something that doesn't do anything the original did. 

Unless they actually listened, this won't work with r/c triggers, relays, reed switches......no ports, no place.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Dave, based on what you know, is my assessment just before your post reasonable, or do you believe they have all new silicon? 

My basic guess is that it is a DCC decoder derivative of the Tsunami. 

Regards, Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

All I know is what I was told on the phone. 
It is supposed to be a "replacement" for the Sierra, and they are all happy about it. 
One marketing survey I was told of several years ago indicated 60% of smaller scales were dcc of some sort, and that number hasn't changed in YEARS....and LS is a whole lot smaller than that. 
To give up the market to another company, then come out with a "niche" sound system for a fairly small community (like, compare number of LS folks to, oh, H0 folks) and figure the percentages just does not compute. 

If I can't trigger sounds when I want (or adjust volume), and track-power folks can't use reeds, well, we'll see what the product actually looks like, but if Bucksco doesn't think so, well, what does that tell you? 

You think the Quasinami worked well? 
Voltage limits, yes.....but when you blow one up with an ancient 16VDC Hogger or a 12VDC H0 pack, (granted, I think it was dead in the box), and it becomes land-fill, what are the chances I got the only one in existence that was faulty?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I have an HO one, that I tried to use on LS, first thing I did was get the blinking light... so overvoltage. 

OK, I made a diode array to drop the voltage. 

Now it overheated and shut down. I was running my little Accucraft "Casey Jr.", the loco from Disneyland. I KNOW it does not draw an amp. 

It was glitchy, and I gave up on it, even though it had the extra "cap" (to keep it going through power interruptions). 

Dumped it, got one of the new, tiny Zimo 642 decoders, same loco runs like a champ. 

So, I have to defer to the HO crowd that uses a lot of them. My experience was not great in LS. 

Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

I just remembered....the reason we ended up discussing this was they mentioned "speed controller". 
Whether or naught this plug and pray iteration includes speed control we have to wait and see.


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

As to the to the possibility of the new Climax sound system being a replacement for the Sierra.
Perhaps the answer has been provided by Jack Lynch who has written the following:

"I know for sure that Soundtraxx does not plan to sell the board. We would need to test it with our other large scale models before we make such a decision.

As far as the board voltage goes The voltage range is up to 25 volts but it is recommended to be used at the same voltage as any large scale DCC which is 18 volts. It can however be run past the 21 volts that the shay was limited to, but again as the voltage gets higher so does the heat so the customer risks the model over heating if they run it too high." [/b]*

*Plus, the last bit seems to say it is a DCC decoder as well.


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

So, that means the "new" dcc standard voltage for LS is 18V? 
Who would have guessed. 

Edit:

And, now that this has been asked, I wonder how long it will be until that posting gets changed......


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## Cougar Rock Rail (Jan 2, 2008)

As far as the board voltage goes The voltage range is up to 25 volts but it is recommended to be used at the same voltage as any large scale DCC which is 18 volts. It can however be run past the 21 volts that the shay was limited to, but again as the voltage gets higher so does the heat so the customer risks the model over heating if they run it too high." 

Sounds an awful lot like Polkspeak--is he taking night classes from the Master?


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Decoders should be made to handle 27 volts. That is an NMRA standard. Max DCC voltage on the tracks is 24 volts. That's another standard. 

Whoever thinks it's 18 volts is mistaken, or thinks that we are in O scale. 

You drop about 3 volts in the decoder, so LS locos would get 15 volts. If you are reading this and it is not clearly absurd for *ALL *LS locos, then more education is needed urgently. 

Enough voltage to the motor is an ongoing problem in LS DCC. The Europeans understand this, and most have a top output voltage at the booster of 24v. I had to get my NCE modfied at the factory to raise it from 21 to 24, otherwise my unloaded top speed of my E8 units was 65 smph. 

So 18 volts is unacceptable for virtually any LS DCC setup. Sure, some smartie will come in and say he runs his DCC at 25 smph max so he does not care, let's hope that silly argument does not surface. 

Sure you can run the Quasinami past 21 volts, but you have the same function as a 15 cent blinking LED... that's all the decoder does at that voltage. It also had overheating problems.

Now, maybe the "new" one will be different, but it's not sounding good so far, even though it is billed as an "all new" design. 


The picture shown on the Bachmann site shows a board, which is presumably the new Tsunami board, and it has 11 pins on one end and 12 on the other, so not the same as the standard Aristo socket, and not the same as the socket in the K27..

ouch...

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Um - Err!!! 

The standard PnP socket does have 12 pins on one end and 11 (unused) pins on the other end. 
At least the K-27 socket sitting beside me does.


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

See, now it all makes sense. 

THAT is why they insist on gearing them so high. 

The new large scale max voltage standard is 18 volts.... and you have to be able to achieve 79 MPH at max power. 

Why didn't they just SAY that in the first place? 

Matthew (OV)


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

You must be right on the socket in the K27, don't have one nearby to check, 

BUT 

The Aristo socket is 12 and 10 pins, and the QSI and the other products that fit that socket are 12 and 10. 

So the tsunami wiith 12 and 11 may have to have a pin chopped off. 

Why, with all the unused pins (the 10 pins) someone just HAD to change something? Even with the 40,000+ Aristo locos out there? 

Jeeze... 

Greg


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## Curmudgeon (Jan 11, 2008)

Well, when you take someone else's design, and "modify" it, and give it as "open source", and seemingly promise nmra approval, makes sense to change it up a bit, eh?


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Greg, 
Given that Jack said Soundtraxx will not be selling the Tsunami fitted to the Climax as a stand alone, I don't expect there will be too many available requiring a pin to be cut off to fit into AristoCraft sockets.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yep, concur. Just dreaming of a socket that could be used as is, 40,000 of them. 

Greg


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## Peter Osborne (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi, just back from the Springfield train show. Bachmann was there with a C-19 running on rollers with sound emanating from it. I asked the Bachmann guys what unit they were using and he said it was the new Soundtraxx Tsunami Plug & play decoder and that it was shipping now. Sure enough I waltzed over to the Soundtraxx booth where they had a sign up touting the new decoder and the list price of $139. So I stopped by the Tony's Trains booth (yes, this is a great show!) but they did not have any with them. But it seems it might be real and perhaps coming into the retail channels soon. 

Peter.


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Always great to have another product available. Nice price, need to know if all the previous version's weaknesses have been resolved. Of course they are not programmable/downloadable, so you need to get one with the sounds you like. 

Let us know if you get one. 

Greg


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## adelmo (Jan 2, 2008)

The new Piko 0-6-0 is supposed to have SoundtraxxTsunami for analog and digital. 

Great news for plug n play, shoul help drop inflated QSI Titan price. 

Alan


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, I would not accuse QSI of an inflated price, or will you also say the same for the Zimo, ESU, and Massoth, since all 4 of them are basically the same price? 

I miss the low cost QSI myself, but looking at the additional processing power, ram, 12 lighting outputs, high current outputs for a heater, and 2 boards and heaver output components, I cannot see how it's inflated... it's a lot more than before. 

The Soundtraxx is not a 10 amp decoder, nor does it have close the the features of the other 4 decoders mentioned. 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Did they give any indication as to whether this was going to be a full-featured Tsunami with a choice of whistles and bells, or an OEM type thing with just a single sound file? 

Later 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

I believe it is the same as it comes in the Climax... full featured as a Tusnami can be... but "locked" to one "motor" no selection of "motors"... so, like other Tsunamis, a single sound file. 

So far all Tsunami's have been this way, but who knows until the final information is released. 

Greg


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## TonyWalsham (Jan 2, 2008)

Whilst the old Sierra was a good sound system for its day apart from the crappy battery, from a dealer perspective it was a real Pain in the Butt because it meant dealers had to carry more stock of pcb's to have a variety of different locos available. Therefore Soundtraxx sold more units than if they had made it programmable like the Phoenix, QSI and Massoth etc. 
Perhaps that same business plan is going to be in operation for the Tsunami Plug and Play. It would certainly be cheaper to make if it is not user upgradeable and programmable.


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I guess what I'm driving at is whether this will just be one chuff, one bell, one whistle (a la the old Sierra boards), or if--like the current production Tsunamis--they will come with a half-dozen or so whistles the user can choose from. I'd also hope the decoder would have the current EQ, reverb, etc. functions which would likewise allow the user to customize the board for a given locomotive. Truthfully, I can't imagine it not being so, but until it's in our hands with documentation to support it, it's speculation. 

Does anyone know what functions you could control on the Shay and Climax Tsunamis? I removed a Shay Tsunami not too long ago, but didn't have a manual or anything with it, so I couldn't play with it to see what it could do. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

We have no reason to believe that there will be any difference from what is basically the "stock" Tsunami software. 

If you went to the bachmann site, you would find the one page "manual" that lists every CV and you would see the standard features you are mentioning. 

So that answers the question for the Climax. 

http://www.soundtraxx.com/factory/OEM pages/bachmann/fn3_2truck_climax.pdf 

The "manual" for the Shay is there too, but can clearly see that it's the older style, "Quasinami", no EQ and other features.. 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

Thanks, Greg. I dug around for the Climax DCC docs, but for whatever reason the only thing I found was the 2006 .pdf from Soundtraxx with their stock CV settings, and a link to the 77 page Tsunami manual. Alas, my review sample was the non-DCC version, so I never got to play around with the sound. 

Should be a fun system to play with; Now, if only Airwire would come out with a 5-amp version of their 1-amp generic wireless DCC receiver. Yeah, I could use the full-blown Airwire card, but that takes up a lot of space... 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, it is really surprisingly large! 

Anyway, we'll see how the new plug and play version tests out soon I would think. More options the better. 

greg


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

Did this product ever appear for sale? 

Have not heard anything. 

Greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

I talked to Soundtraxx a month ago; they were making revisions to it after tests, and at that point were expecting it to go into production very soon. 

BTW, the Airwire "Convertr" universal DCC receiver should likewise be out very soon (if not available already), and has a 2.5-amp capacity according to CVP. Should make it a viable solution for running smaller locomotives. 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

The only issue in the CVP product will be any restrictions in the DCC programming/control from the CVP system. I'm pretty sure there are limitations in what commands can be entered on their throttles. I hope there is no restriction in what commands can be received. 

greg


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## East Broad Top (Dec 29, 2007)

What kind of limitations are you referring to? Their older generation _throttles_ are limited in the number of functions they can control, but the new T-5000 throttle can do up to F28. As the Convertr was described to me over the phone, it's essentially a DCC command station, but on-board instead of in a trackside "little black box." We'll have to see, of course. I intend to get one for my RGS #6 Goose, so I'll be glad to take a look for limitations if you can give me some areas in which to look. (BTW, the user's manual is on CVP's web site now.) 

Later, 

K


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## Greg Elmassian (Jan 3, 2008)

What kind of limitations are you referring to? 
The kinds that experienced CVP users already know about, sorry, not dredging all that info up to make my point, it was just a comment not intended to further derail a thread that had nothing to do with CVP in the first place.

Their older generation_ throttles_ are
Yes, I specified the THROTTLES, see RED text in my original post below.

limited in the number of functions they can control, but the new T-5000 throttle can do up to F28.
I did not say functions, I said COMMANDS, see BLUE text in my original post below, big distinction between the "f functions" and the repertoire of DCC commands.

As the Convertr was described to me over the phone, it's essentially a DCC command station, but on-board instead of in a trackside "little black box."
Technically a command station and a booster in one... remember the distinction, especially since you are writing a 6 part article on DCC apparently. (with a half duplex wireless receiver)


We'll have to see, of course. I intend to get one for my RGS #6 Goose, so I'll be glad to take a look for limitations if you can give me some areas in which to look. (BTW, the user's manual is on CVP's web site now.) 
I'm not interested in doing the research, if it is a "clean" design, then I can use the Gwire throttle, with a user interface I prefer. I use too many DCC commands and I feel "hampered" by the CVP throttles.
If it's not a "clean" interface, then I'll be disappointed, just like the things done to keep competitors from making CVP-compatible products.

Greg


Posted By Greg Elmassian on 30 Jun 2013 09:28 AM 
The only issue in the CVP product will be any restrictions in the DCC programming/control from the CVP system. I'm pretty sure there are limitations in what commands can be entered on their *throttles*. I hope there is no restriction in what *commands *can be received. 

greg


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