# Phase III, the KMR Narrow Gauge



## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

In 1978 I made my first trip to Dawson City in the Yukon Territory. In those days I had no particular interest in trains, but the area I visited, as it turned out, was rich in railroad history.  I am fortunate to have visited the Klondike region when I did, which involved a series of both winter and summer trips over the next fifteen years. During that time I was particularly fascinated with the Bonanza and Eldorado Creek areas which include the original claim that sparked the world-famous Klondike Gold Rush. 

Bonanza Creek enters the Klondike River just upstream from the Klondike's confluence with the Yukon River. That area consists mainly of massive gold dredge tailings intertwined with remnants of hydraulic mining operations on some of the upper hills, including one called "Gold Hill."  Although the original claims were all small placer operations, some of which rewarded the miners with unbelievably rich placer, it was not long before the really rich claims played out. At that point the only economic way to mine these areas was either by dredging the creek bottoms or using massive hyraulic giants to take down the hillsides. This meant large companies with impressive financial means had to enter the scene, buy up the many small claims, and then invest in the expensive machinery and manpower required to continue mining the area.

It was apparent even as late as I first saw this area that some kind of railroad had once run through here. I couid see the kind of heavy rockwork alongside some of the hills on the north side of the Bonanza and Eldorado Creek valleys that obviously was put there to handle some kind of heavy load.

Of course, there was also the obvious clue within the town of Dawson itself. Outside the old administration building which now serves as a museum sat four derelict locomtives, numbered one through four.  In those days they were simply parked there the way they were found when they were moved from their original sites. They were unprotected and showed no signs of restoration on any of these engines. But there were four of them, big as life.  







_This is a 1978 polaroid shot of me on "The Dome," which is the hill above Dawson City. In the background  you can clearly see Bonanza Creek and the hydraulic activities of Gold Hill.  _

I made my last visit to Dawson City in 1995--the same year I began putting together my  first large-scale model railroad--the beginnings of the Chitina Local Branch of the Copper River & Northwestern Railway which ran between Cordova on the coast to Kennecott along the southern slopes of the Wrangell Range well within the interior. The CRNW was a standard gauge railroad completed in 1911. It's construction was overseen by Erastus Cornelius Hawkins. He was the same engineer who was in charge of the White Pass construction project--a narrow gauge railroad. And it was E.C.Hawkins, as it would turn out, who put together the intial design for the narrow gauge Klondike Mines Railroad with terminals in Dawson CIty and Klondike City, across the Klondike River from Dawson.  

--to be continued--


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dawson City is "way out there" even by Alaskan standards. It is well off the beaten path, although accessible by plane, boat and road. My access to this very historic town was by means of the "Top of the World Highway." That, in turn, is reached by means of the Taylor Highway, which intersects the Alcan Highway twelve miles east of Tok. Tok is approximately 155 road miles NE of Copper Center, or 328 road miles from Anchorage.

In the late seventies I was operating a coin-operated music, pool, video game route in the southcentral area, including some of the villages around Tok, such as Northway, Tanacross and Tetlin, along with a few choice highway roadhouse locations. One of these was Chicken Creek Saloon, which was 66 miles up the Taylor Highway. That is a long drive because the Taylor in those days was a gravel road with heavy grades and many rough segments. It was also either dusty or muddy, depending on whether or not it had recently rained.

Somehow I was talked into going into Dawson City by the owner of Chicken Creek Saloon to see the owner of one of the hotels who wanted to purchase some video games. When I finally did go, it turned into the beginning of many years of a very rich experience because that area is so steeped in history, it is impossible to ignore. And above all else, I appreciate historic structures, be they old western buildings, minesites or remnants of old railroads. I was not a railroad fan, but I appreciated the history of what they represented even back then. 


  _The Klondike area: Click for larger version_
There is something about that trip. Chicken Creek Saloon itself sits amidst an old gold mining camp complete with an abandoned dredge. There were still individual miners in the area working right along the road on claims that stretched from Chicken to Boundary, about forty miles up the road. 

One of the old camps along the way is obviously the remants of a small town known as Jack Wade Camp. It has its own dredge abandoned along the road. One follows a series of creeks that all have been historic mining areas for the entire distance to the border. The hills are rolling with black spruce and the creeks are dark and mysterious looking with the sense of old spirits everywhere. 

The "Top of the World" is almost exactly that. It is a road that is allowed to close in the winter because it is nearly impossible to keep open due to heavy snow drifting. The road literally runs along the tops of those old rounded hills, in some cases well above the tree-line. In the winter the snow drifts up, not down, filling in that road and soon encrusting it in a heavy snow-ice meld that requires heavy machinery to remove in the late spring when it is finally opened. That is an event that many eagerly anticipate because driving to Dawson is like entering the past.

At Boundary was the Boundary Roadhouse. In those days an old codger known as "Action Jackson" ran the place. He himself had operated several mining claims down in the creek beds hundreds of feet below Boundary, which is well up in the hills just west of the Canadian boundary. He had one of those old style glass bulb gas pumps in front of a very old log cabin that served as the cafe. Another building held the small bar and then there were a series of small log cabins that were for overnight visitors. They were very primitive but somehow quite comfortable.

All of this simply added to the allure of the entire trip. Jackson was quite the character, literally a creature from an era that was rapidly disappearing. His stop was a must for anyone traveling this lonely route because Boundary represented the Alaska of the frontier days. 

Then there was Dawson itself. One first sees it from a high hill overlooking the city and then the massive Yukon River. The moment one sees it, what is obvious is that this is a very special place. 

to be continued


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is a historic panoramic photo of Dawson City at its zenith, probably about 1912.  To the right is the conflence of the Klondike River. Just across the river was Klondike City, a small "town" which served as the railroad yard for the KMR.  Nothing remains there to indicate there ever was a railroad save a few pieces of iron if one knows where to look. 

On the top left is The Dome--a very prominent backdrop for historic Dawson City.  The view is looking east. Click for a much larger image. 
  I took this picture with my polaroid from on top of the Dome. You are looking up the Yukon River with a view of a part of Dawson City as it was in 1978-79.  Across the Yukon River is the Top of the World Highway winding its way to the top of the hills. 







To Be Continued


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## tom h (Jan 2, 2008)

wow, love hearing about Alaska ever since i read James Micheners Alaska,  and Luois Lamours Sitka. Keep the history coming.

tom h


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tom h on 01/09/2008 6:04 PM
wow, love hearing about Alaska ever since i read James Micheners Alaska,  and Luois Lamours Sitka. Keep the history coming.

tom h
Thank you. This thread has a way to go yet and it will include plenty of mostly railroad-related history. 

Dawson City and the Klondike gold fields are, however, in the Yukon Territory in Canada, not in Alaska. Historically, Alaska and the Yukon are heavily intertwined thanks in large part to the Klondike gold rush.  At one time it was relatively easy to cross the border in the manner that those prospectors of a previous century did. This is no longer the case. Many of us Americans are actually barred from entering Canada.  

--Ron in (where the h*** is) Copper Center







The Yukon Territory


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Yukon Territory is a fascinating piece of ground.  It has a very rich history and it is also strategically important.  As you can see from the map in the previous post, to get to Alaska by land, one MUST go through the Yukon.  A century ago the only large "city" there was Dawson, which was once referred to as "the Paris of the North."   

It was also the intented destination for a number of railroads, as you see from the map below, plus a pass-through for a very serious proposal that would have created an entirely new trans-world railroad that would have stretched from New York to Moscow and then Paris.

This proposal actually had serious financial backing, but is rumored to have been killed by the shipping industry.  Regardless of what happened, what is clear is that at one time, Dawson City and the Klondike was considered to be a major destination. 
  Dawson City became the territorial capital of the Yukon. A large administration building and the commissioner's residence still stand to attest to this important historic aspect of Dawson. 

Unfortunately for the railroad which finally did emerge within the Klondike, it came too little and too late. It was built long after the intial strike had brought all that activity into this desolate area.  It was now competing with newly-built roads and the existing rather extensive water way system along the Yukon River. Even worse, with the strike over, the boom had become a bust.  

With the advent of the large companies that would take over the many small claims, the population dropped drastically.  The Klondike Mines Railway would become nothing more in then end but a hauler of wood for the various steam engines used in the Klondike to thaw the ground. Even that would prove to be a very limited venture. 

And with the steady drop in local population the need to connect this line with the White Pass was now over. Thus the KMR would never go beyond the original 30 miles that brought it up to the headwaters of Eldorado and Bonanza Creeks.

It would take many more years, but eventually the capital was moved to Whitehorse. Whitehorse became important in its own right with the advent of the Alcan Highway built by the US Army in 1942-43.  By then Dawson had become nearly a ghost town--and a very isolated one at that. It was over 300 road miles from Whitehorse to Dawson where even large-scale mining was now on a long slide into oblivion.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Yukon Territory and the old Territory of Alaska were tied together primarily by gold. The first major population surge into the north country was spurred by the Klondike gold rush. This in turn brought about the White Pass and Yukon Railway and the short-lived Klondike Mines Railway. 

More than that, the rush brought about the push that resulted in the "All-American route" into the interior. This was the infamous Valdez Glacier-to-Klutina Glaicer route to what is now Copper Center where I live. It was probably the toughest gold route ever, lasting only one season--long enough to kill off plenty of people and discourage many more. 

But among the handful that finally made it into the Copper Valley, some of those went on to seek out Chief Nicolai and eventually secure the famous Nicolai copper lode claim that ultimate resulted in the formation of the world-wide copper conglomerate known as Kennecott--the theme of my Phase I project. 

The Yukon remains prime mining territory in its own right, but because of its relative isolation and lack of infrastructure, including a first class railroad line--or any railroad line for that matter--it languishes to this day, almost wholly dependent now upon summertime tourism.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Early Map Showing the Path up the Valdez Glacier:  The "All-American Route"

   The 45 mile route up the Valdez Glacier required ascending the Chugach Summit at nearly 5,000 feet, then ascending another glacier before reaching the enormous Klutina Lake.   Travel on the glacier was only safe during winter when snow cover over the glacier was packed and hard, but it also meant the traveler was subject to frequent storms and the occasional avalanche. Additionally, those ever-present exceedingly deep crevices meant certain death for any who fell through.  Three thousand five hundred attempted the trip. Less than a tenth of that number actually made it all the way through to Copper Center, and many of those died of survey. The bulk of those who attempted the glacial crossing turned back and were able to safely return to the states. (Click for larger image).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The All-American Route: Klutina Lake
  _The old map: "Lake Abercrombie" is actually "Klutina Lake"  (click)_
This map is a continuation of the previous one. The trek over the two glaciers and the Chugach Range summit involved stopping at a number of camps the sprang up along the way. The last of these were at the end of the Klutina Glacier and at various points along this lake.

Someone managed to haul a complete sawmill over the pass. This became sawmill camp. It was used to build boats to cross the lake and then begin the journey down the Klutina River.

The lake is not far away from here--about two dozen miles over a very rough trail.  For a brief time in Alaska's history, this area was populated with many prospectors with hopes of striking it rich either by continuing on to the Klondike gold fields or by finding gold in the valley. Rumors of massive gold fields in the Copper Valley were prevalent but false.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The All American Route: Copper Center: The End of the Line
  _Map showing Klutina River route from Klutina Lake to Copper Center, confluence of the Copper & Klutina Rivers.  (Click)._
As tough as ascending the Valdez Glacier only to encounter the forbidding Chugach summit was, and then continuing over yet another hazardous glacier to reach Klutina Lake, it is said that the Klutina River was even more dangerous to the unwary travelers who evidently had no idea what they were doing when they entered that river from where Klutina Lake empties.

Probably more lives were lost along this roughly 25 mile stretch of river than anywhere else. Almost every boat built overturned or was busted up on the many rocks in that incredibly fast moving white-water current. Because this is a glacier stream, the river is barely above freezing. Persons who fall in the river have only minutes to get out, if that, before the river takes them.  

Many, upon word of how treacherous this river really was, turned back toward Valdez. But a few brave souls actually took the plunge--literally.  Of the 3,500 who attempted this incredibly arduous journey from Valdez on their quest of the All-American Route, only about a tenth of that number actually made it to the confluence of the Klutina and Copper Rivers, what is now Copper Center. At the time a trading post existed there.  
  _The Landing at Copper Center:  This shot was taken on what is now my riverfront property  on the Klutina River._ (Click).


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## digger (Jan 2, 2008)

Fascinating reading. Looking forward to each new installment. It took real men with strong visions to make that trip. True grit!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By digger on 01/12/2008 6:13 AM
Fascinating reading. Looking forward to each new installment. It took real men with strong visions to make that trip. True grit!

Thank you. Your comment is greatly appreciated. I receive relatively few responses for the amount of work that goes into these posts,  so it is always good to  get a  positive response from time to time. 

I spend many hours processing these images, checking and re-checking my information and then putting the posts together. This is about the only time of the year when I have enough time to do this.  The first three or four months of the year are the slowest for me, so I often find myself here at this computer doing my model railroad planning and adding posts here and elsewhere. 

More KMR to follow.  

--Ron in CC


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

As near as I can determine, this is the landing point seen in the previous Klutina River historic landing photo.  I walked out on the ice today to take this photo.  (click). 
  This is the location as seen from the Google imagery.  The gold-seekers appear to have come down over the old river channel, which can still be seen in this aerial.  Old photos indicate two bridges once spanned this river. The existing channel to the south was there even then, but the older channel is dried up. 
The tents you see in the background would have been in the area of the modern bridge. 
  The arrow shows where I shot the image.  That entire area jutting into the river is my property--the historic Klutina River landing of 1898-99.  The bar and model railroad is straight north of the arrow.  (Click).
Somewhere to the east of my property (right) was land dedicated for a CRNW railroad depot. At one time this was part of a survey for a railroad north from Chitina to Chena, near Fairbanks.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Copper Center circa 1911*
  _In the early days freight came up the CRNW to Chitina where it was transferred to horse-drawn freight wagons. One of the prominent stops was Copper Center._
Of the roughly 350 prospector-hopefuls who made it to Copper Center, almost all ended up leaving for Valdez following a scurvey epidemic. In the end, the "All-American Route" to the Klondike was a bust.

This turned out to be a dead-end  for gold-seekers: too far to continue on to the Klondike and almost no gold in the Copper River valley.  I have often referred to Copper Center as not a destination, but a brief stop on the way to somewhere else.  It began as a trading post in 1896 and with the end of the All-American route, it returned to being just a trading post. Although within a few years a small government experimental farm was located here along with a Blue Fox farm and a U.S. Army telegraph station, Copper Center never became a town--or a destination.  

And now we return to the Klondike.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Map of the CRNW Railway _*Showing the relative positions of Valdez, Fairbanks and Dawson*_   This early CRNW map detail shows the military telegraph route to Eagle on the Yukon River, from there one had to take a paddle wheel to Dawson City.  The start of the telegraph line was Valdez.  As you can see, it was still a considerable distance to Dawson even after one had reached Copper Center (not viewable because of lines in the way but just below Tazlina on this map). Click for larger map version.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

It was the summer of 1978.  We had driven over ten miles up the Bonanza Creek Road. The hills are close and relatively steep as one follows the creek. It was mid-afternoon, but it would be easy to see how quickly the late afternoon shadows would overtake this narrow place with those rocky hills peering down upon us from all directions, throwing the small creek valley into dark and probably somewhat cold shadows. Around here when the sun went down, it could get very chilly indeed. In the steep valleys, sunlight did not have much of a chance to establish its presence before moving on. 

It was fascinating. The creek was surprisingly small for such a world-famous place. It was readily fordable almost anywhere by the time we got this far up.  Mostly we had seen pile after enormous pile of tailings--large rocks nearly evenly distributed in a wave-like fashion extending sometimes hundreds of yards wide and going on it seemed for miles.  In an odd sort of way, though, the whole place seemed understated. It was as if a world event had happened right here--which it did--but nobody remembered or cared. 

There was all that old iron--pieces of old mining machinery. Indeed, except for the occasional operating dozer, everything up this creek valley looked positively ancient but often still usable. There were old dredge buckets piled everywhere in places on both sides of this narrow hard pan road.  In fact, some of the historic claim markers were sprayed in white on these old buckets.  They usually appeared as a claim name like "Lowe's Fraction" and a number, Like "Bonanza 15." 

Occasionally there would be a small log cabin. But these were relatively rare. Mining was still in progress, although apparently on a relatively small scale anymore--and this ongoing activity seemed to extend almost everywhere up and down Bonanza Creek. Imagine that! Eight decades later and  people were STILL mining around all these old tailings.

Somewhere along the north wall of the valley I had spotted carefully-placed lines of flat, sharp rocks reinforcing some kind of roadbed. I later figured out that this was part of an old railroad line. 

Then there were those hills near the confluence of the creek with the Klondike River. Entire hills were still being taken down by these things called "giants"--hydraulic mining still in progress. One of these hills had been reduced to a fine white sand-like substance that seemed to cover everything while defying flora to grow on it. In fact, plant life was relatively sparse in this part of the creek for some reason, although there was an abundance of mostly small deciduous growth lining the small, clear creek that trickled through this strange and growing ever-stranger valley.

These hills strongly resembled the ones we had passed just east of Chicken on the way to Boundary. They were rounded with lots of almost uniform sharp rocks that seemed to fit together in some kind of gigantic puzzle. The round rocks were the ones in the tailings piles.  The only color seemed to be orangish to tan. There were no shades of green or anything else that I was used to seeing elsewhere, just variations on yellow--except for the bright white sandy hill that had been mostly pulled down by decades of hydraulic mining. 

The trees which existed just beyond the main areas of mining activity appeared to be black spruce. They were uniformly small, obviously adapted to an extremely frigid environment. And they were often not all that close together, indicating that life here even for plant life really was an ongoing struggle.  They were dark but not exactly lush. If anything they  had a kind of spindly quality. They tended to be short--seldom reaching more than thirty feet. 

Occasionally, especially along  the south wall, another smaller creek valley would intersect this one. These often deep valleys usually showed recent signs of mining activity. In places the rocks appeared to be piled up close to a hundred feet above the road. Bulldozers had obviously pushed through a number of access roads up these rock piles going back to the mining claims. 

Then we rounded a turn and came upon a monstrous dredge that was partly buried in the muck in a wide spot on the creek bottom. Mostly it was dry there. The creek water around it had receded, leaving only that unpleasant wet mud interspersed with marsh grass. 







In those days everything was open to the public. We stopped and checked it out. What a thrill that was! The machinery on board this mammoth dredge was itself gargantuan.  Everthing about that long-abandoned piece of machinery was enormous.  We would come back and explore it more. But right now, something seemed to be pushing me to continue on.  Beside, I wanted to avoid the late afternoon shadows that would soon be overtaking this valley. 

Then we came upon it.  Whatever it was, I knew we had reached the turn-around point. It did not really look like anything where we had stopped. There was a wide spot on the road and a panoramic photo that Parks Canada had placed on a sign that overlooked the creek. Directly across the creek, which was right there, was an open area, then a gradual hill hidden by heavier growth I had not seen down the creek. We had reached a point where one small and undistinguished creek flowed into the other.  These creeks were quickly separated by a hill.  Behind us the hill was steep. It seemed that the thing was peering down upon us. This was a strange spot indeed. 

There wasn't much to see, but I sensed something really big here.  I waded into the clear creek. It was colder than I had thought, but I made my way across it. I found myself not wanting to go any further, and re-crossed the creek.  Over in the distance where I had crossed I could see some kind of road, a couple of old deserted cabins and more of those carefully placed rocks that helped keep the road in place. Upstream was yet another small cabin that appeared to be in use.  It looked dark and forbidding even though it was small. I would not be going in that direction. It was at the base of the hill which divided the two small creeks. 

All was remarkably quiet here except for the clear creek gurgling through as it wound its way  to the Klondike and thence to the mighty Yukon River.  I kept sensing something peculiar at this spot.   Something was definitely here, but I could not see it. I climbed back up the creek bank to the parking lot and took a good look at that picture. There it was. I was looking at a very impressive historic photo of the  town of Grand Forks. The sign said that 10,000 people had once lived here. But where? I had spotted only three very small cabins--nothing more. 

There was so much more in that panoramic photo, including some impressive two-story structures that were obviously commercial buildings.  But what really stood out were the three churches. These frame buildings faced each other--each one taking a corner of the town except for the approach side on the western end. Upon closer examination it seemed to me that one of those church buildings might  have stood directly behind me.  There was, in fact, a kind of natural bench to my rear that looked like it might have been in about the right spot.  I climbed up there and looked around: nothing. There was nothing there. It was a sad and disappointing feeling. I felt that something really valuable and even irreplaceable had been lost here. 

I kept looking around not quite believing what I was seeing. What I was looking at was nothing--absolutely nothing at all. What had happened here? The Parks Canada sign clearly indicated that this was the correct spot. I could see from the hills in the background that it probably was, although the exact positioning of the town in the photo was somewhat difficult to determine because something about the angle was wrong.
  _A Part of Grand Forks: Eldorado Creek in the foreground. (Click)_
Then I began to get this creeping sense of spirits everywhere around this place. They were there, all right. Their town was gone but some of these people evidently had never left. This had become their final destination.  That feeling of eyes looking down on me was becoming more real.

It was not all that pleasant a feeling--not a sense of peace at all underlying whatever was still here.   I began to distinctly feel like an intruder. Whatever had happened here was absolutely fascinating to the point of being consuming.   I wanted to see more. Before leaving I needed to  cross that  creek one more time. We headed out of there and  doubled back to find the bridge that crossed Bonanza Creek about half a mile down the creek. Following that narrow road we soon returned to where we had been, but facing the other side. It sure looked like there was room on this side for a town of the size I had seen in that historic panoramic, but once again I could see nothing. 

We checked out the remains of those two cabins. Not much there, but they sure felt like they were still alive in an odd sort of way.  But that was all there was. I was once again disappointed to find no signs of any of the other buildings that once dominated the creek at this very spot. 

It was only later that I learned that the bulk of the old town was just up the creek another hundred yards or so. The town had been built along Eldorado Creek with a small part of it along Bonanza Creek which had split off to the south. The main part of town was built to the north side of the hill which separated the two streams.  Those two fallen-in cabins actually marked the entry point for the town and were thus only the beginning part of Grand Forks. But there was no more town, no more buildings, no more of anything. It really was all gone. I keep repeating this because I had a hard time absorbing this obvious fact back then and to a certain extent even now. This was an experience that would haunt me years later. Even as I write this that experience comes back as a kind of shock. To me it was as if someone or something had taken my own home town away from me in the dead of the night--leaving nothing behind but bare ground. 

Then I thought about that dredge we had passed about a mile downstream and I began to suspect I knew exactly what had happened here. 

--To Be Continued--


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

So...are you contemplating modeling some sort of (fictional) interchange between the (extended Copper River Railroad) and Klondike Lines? Or do you intend to keep them separate? 

As for myself, I always thought that if the old White Pass and Yukon had extended another couple hundred miles to the active mining areas (not nec gold, but other metals - like Tungsten, or some such), it might very well have stayed in business. 

In the meantime I find myself alternately entertained and depressed by the actions of the state government regarding the natural gas pipeline. Havn't heard anything about an attendant rail route being built as well, though.


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## mhutson (Jan 2, 2008)

Very interesting stuff, Ron. Thank you. 

Cheers, 
Matt


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## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

A wonderful history lesson Ron! I guess my age has something to do with it, but I love hearing about the old days and what went on, as well as the great pictures from the past. It is so much more interesting to me.

Thanks for all your trouble and time!

I have read your book "Legacy of the Chief" twice now, and plan to read it again this winter. I think more people sould buy it, if they are interested in the history of that part of our country. I have really enjoyed it!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 01/13/2008 3:47 AM
So...are you contemplating modeling some sort of (fictional) interchange between the (extended Copper River Railroad) and Klondike Lines? Or do you intend to keep them separate? 

As for myself, I always thought that if the old White Pass and Yukon had extended another couple hundred miles to the active mining areas (not nec gold, but other metals - like Tungsten, or some such), it might very well have stayed in business. 

In the meantime I find myself alternately entertained and depressed by the actions of the state government regarding the natural gas pipeline. Havn't heard anything about an attendant rail route being built as well, though.
The original KMR plans called for extending that line all the way to Whitehorse--over ten times the distance that the KMR ultimately achieved. That would have linked up the narrow gauge KMR with the narrow gauge WPRR and probably vastly expanded the mining potential in that region. As it was the Keno Mines operated for years, sending ore trucks to Whitehorse where the ore was off-loaded on to WPRR ore cars. Once that ended in the early 80s the WPRR almost went completely out of business. Now, of course, it has an all new life as a tourist railroad to Lake Bennett, no longer reaching Whitehorse. My intention is to tie in the KMR with the WPRR on this model. That does not show up yet on any of my plans, but it is a logical extension of the KMR, and historically reasonable given the announced intentions of the original KMR investors at the turn of the century. Actually, had that happened, come to think of it, that might have saved Grand Forks from total extinction. Well, maybe not.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By mhutson on 01/13/2008 4:38 AM
Very interesting stuff, Ron. Thank you. 

Cheers, 
Matt
Thankyou for the kind comment. Fortunately, his story is not quite over yet (to say the least).

--Ron in CC


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 01/13/2008 9:51 AM
A wonderful history lesson Ron! I guess my age has something to do with it, but I love hearing about the old days and what went on, as well as the great pictures from the past. It is so much more interesting to me.

Thanks for all your trouble and time!

I have read your book "Legacy of the Chief" twice now, and plan to read it again this winter. I think more people sould buy it, if they are interested in the history of that part of our country. I have really enjoyed it! 


This is probably what I love to do best--relate these old stories. The Kennecott model has become a great tool for me to talk about the railroading past that intersects so nicely with my own Native heritage right here at the CRD in Copper Center. 

When the occasional tourist bus somehow ends up at the CRD, I give them a story like no other they have heard during their Alaska-Yukon visit. It's all true and very genuine since I am linked directly to the events in many cases either by having been there or because of my ancestry.

I have long contemplated writing a second book which revolves around the history of the KMR, Grand Forks, Klondike City and Dawson. Of course, it would have to be a historic adventure novel with the KMR right there on center stage or at least playing a strong supporting role.

Although the book you refer to is out of print I see there are still soft-cover copies available at a good price at Amazon dot com. I still have a few of the originals that I sell here at the CRD and on line as well, but I am not here to sell that book. However, I do appreciate your comments greatly.  

--Ron in CC


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

We are very fortunate in that four of the original locomotives from the KMR, Numbers 1, 2 and 3, plus one of the Detroit-Yukon Railroad Porters, number 4, have survived and are resting not far from where they operated in the Klondike.

I should note that sometimes number four is mistaken as one of the KMR engines because its number is in sequence with the others. That is just one of those odd coincidences. The other three porters were removed years ago and KMR number four was picked up by the WPRR to be resurrected for use elsewhere. It now sits in Oklahoma. 

So here they all are in a place called "Minto Park" in Dawson City, adjacent the old administration building, which is now a museum forever rest these wonderful old narrow gauge steam locomotives from the glorious Klondike Gold Rush days. 

This was how they appeared when I was there in the late 70s-early 80s. Since this photo was taken (click for larger image) these have been placed under cover and are in the process of being restored as static displays.  
  I will deal in more detail with each of these locomotives, but for now I wanted you to see them all lined up. Quite a sight are they not?  How many other places would one be so fortunate as to find four of the original steam engines still sitting close to where they operated?


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron

As always, it is a pleasure to encounter your threads, Like Bob (flatracker) said you have a gift of being able to relate a story and the knowledge to keep it accurate in a most interesting way. I believe that you should as you mentioned put another book together (I know, like you've nothing to do /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif). I mean the Internet is great and all, but to me over the long haul there's nothing better than a book. It doesn't any technology, just a bit of light, a pair of semi-good eyes, and the desire to read to use one.

Just letting you know that I too really appreciate all the time and effort that you put into the posting you make here on MLS.  Because of them I've learned a great deal about some place I may never get to experience. Again thanks for expanding my horizons a bunch.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, 

I'll echo Steve's comments. I didn't take the time to read all the way through the posts - just looking at the pictures!!! 

Mark


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 01/14/2008 7:06 AM
Ron, 

I'll echo Steve's comments. I didn't take the time to read all the way through the posts - just looking at the pictures!!! 

Mark
That's quite all right. There are plenty more where those came from.


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## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron,

The 2-6-0 in the photo looks an awful lot like a Bachmann 2-6-0 Spectrum Mogul, doesn't it?  With the wagon top boiler and the uncentered driver.  The others look like C-16 type locomotives.

Mark


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 01/14/2008 1:30 PM
Ron,

The 2-6-0 in the photo looks an awful lot like a Bachmann 2-6-0 Spectrum Mogul, doesn't it?  With the wagon top boiler and the uncentered driver.  The others look like C-16 type locomotives.

Mark
You're jumping ahead of me just a little, but you are correct on both counts.  I purchased a Bachmann 2-6-0 to replicate KMR #1, and have a Bachman 2-8-0 coming for KMR #2.  As for KMR #3, it is much larger, somewhat similar relatively speaking to a K-27. For that one I am going to use my Accucraft K-27 that has languished in obscurity ever since I bought it and then found  I couldn't use it as intended back in 2001.  

I will make more exacting photo and drawing comparisons for each of these, pluse Detroit-Yukon Gold Company engine #4 (as well as numbers 1, 2 and 3) shortly.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Klondike Mines Railway engine # 1
  The first run out of Klondike City with engine #1 in the lead.  The first 13 miles of track was completed in mid-July 1906--the run from Dawson City, the official terminal, to Grand Forks. The remaining mileage to Sulphur Springs was completed by October to a distance of 31 miles at a final cost of about two million dollars. 
  KMR #1, a Brooks 2-6-0, was built in 1881 as Kansas Central Railway No. 7.  It went through several changes in ownership, including the Canadian Pacific, one of my own mainline railroads on the Phase II segment, before being sold to the White Pass & Yukon as No. 63.  In 1902 it was sold to the KMR.  As of 1961 it went to the City of Dawson as a static display. 
  All pictures are clickable to a larger size


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

As Mark Oles already pointed out, the Bachmann 2-6-0 is a good match for KMR engine number one.   I  had already ordered that engine for this project. It is now sitting in a backroom awaiting its new home as well as some re-lettering to its new roadname.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR Narrow Gauge Model Railway







It is too early to determine the exact nature of the layout of the proposed Phase III 1:20.3 KMR narrow gauge line.  Most likely it will appear something like this.  The area around Sulfur (Sulpher) Springs is high ground because that is an elevated leach field, which makes it particularly suitable for the historic east end of the line that terminated at Sulfur.  

At the urging of another MLS member, I now intend to extend the line past Sulfur to some as-yet-to-be-determined location in order to tie it in with a White Pass line. 

Almost all the locomotives I need for this project are either already in my possession or on the way, as you will see.  Almost none of the actual rolling stock has been purchased, but that is much easier to obtain and will not likely be obtained for at least another year.

Once I have determined which engines will actually be used on the line, those ones will have remote control battery installations with sound. Most likely this will eventually include all four of the KMR engines, plus one of the Detroit Yukon Gold Company porters and possibly one or two others.


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## pfdx (Jan 2, 2008)

KMRy #3 is a very rare bird.  It's a unrebuilt Vauclain compound.  The only other surviving Vauclains are the Pikes peak cog engines in Colorado.  All the rest, including the K-27's, were rebuilt simple.

# 4 was a Baldwin built 2-6-2 that has wandered to OK.

The KMRy is a neat railroad.  I'm looking forward to your on going posts.

PFDX


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR Route














As is the case with any large scale model railroad, a great deal of selective compression is called for in order to make your chosen line fit the limitations of your yard and your budget. These two maps were taken from a recent study which re-mapped the old KMR .  Much of the line is gone, not just because of natural erosion but mainly due to extensive dredging and hydraulic mining activities which have significantly altered the landscape since the railroad was abandoned in 1913.  

This is especially the case for the area downstream from Grand Forks, which itself is non-existent.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By pfdx on 01/14/2008 4:41 PM
KMRy #3 is a very rare bird.  It's a unrebuilt Vauclain compound.  The only other surviving Vauclains are the Pikes peak cog engines in Colorado.  All the rest, including the K-27's, were rebuilt simple.

# 4 was a Baldwin built 2-6-2 that has wandered to OK.

The KMRy is a neat railroad.  I'm looking forward to your on going posts.

PFDX







Indeed it is rare. In fact, as I indicated, the closest loco I have to it is my K-27, which I will definitely use unaltered in its place. This Baldwin Vauclain Compound apparently became obsolete with the development of the superheaters. KMR #3 was a very large engine relative to the others, and that fact kept it from being used very much during its brief life on the KMR where it was finally abandoned.







KMR #3 under cover and in the process of restoration as a static display in Dawson City


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron,


Thank you for the great posts.  I look forward to more installments.  As it is, I waited until I had some time, (today was the day) to read and enjoy.  I do not enjoy reading from a screen as much as reading something on paper.  So today I converted your post to pdf, printed it and thoroughly had a great time reading.  Your description of  searching for the town of Grand Forks had me riveted to my seat.

_On 1/10/07 you posted  "Many of us Americans are actually barred from entering Canada"

_I don't want to hijack or detract from your post, but can you tell me why?

Tommy
Rio Gracie


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tmejia on 01/14/2008 9:17 PM


Ron,


Thank you for the great posts.  I look forward to more installments.  As it is, I waited until I had some time, (today was the day) to read and enjoy.  I do not enjoy reading from a screen as much as reading something on paper.  So today I converted your post to pdf, printed it and thoroughly had a great time reading.  Your description of  searching for the town of Grand Forks had me riveted to my seat.

_On 1/10/07 you posted  "Many of us Americans are actually barred from entering Canada"

_I don't want to hijack or detract from your post, but can you tell me why?

Tommy
Rio Gracie 



I am very pleased you were able to enjoy that post.

Anyone from the USA who has even one DWI conviction anywhere in the USA cannot get through Canada. Although exceptions are made at a price, generally Americans with such a record are turned back. This only applies to Americans as far as I know because we share our computer info on such activity with the Canadian government.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR #2
  KMR engine No. 2, built in 1885,  was Columbia and Puget Sound No. 8 before being sold to White Pass as number 5 (later renumbered 55).  It arrived at Klondike City in 1905 along with a barge load of other rolling stock for the KMR which was still not in operation.  Included in the load were two passenger coaches, one of them being a combine, probably built in the 1880s.  There were also  a number of box cars and flat cars. Most of the thirteen box cars and the ten flat cars arrived in that year. By the time the KMR had ended service in 1913 all of those box cars had been converted to flat cars and the coaches had not run for several years. 

KMR #2 proved to be the most useful of all the locomotives and is the one which shows up in most of the photos of the KMR.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

On 1/10/07 you posted "Many of us Americans are actually barred from entering Canada" 

I don't want to hijack or detract from your post, but can you tell me why? 



It can get more bureaucratic than that. I know one guy who decided to go to Alaska via the state ferry system out of Seattle this year. As he figured he would not be getting off the ferry in Canada, he didn't bother with the whole passport thing (and the waiting list for that is months to years long anyhow). Unfortunately, his ferry encountered mechanical problems enroute and had to put in at Prince Rupert if I remember right. Without a passport, he had no legal right to be there; so he got held up by the bureacracy for weeks while things were slowly worked through. 

I have also come across the occasional mention of US citizens being turned away at the border even if their paperwork is in order and they have no criminal convictions - especially if the border officials even suspect they are headed towards the high paying jobs in the Tar Sands region. (think single male, 20 to 40, with engineering/mining/mechanic experience).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

A Bachmann 2-8-0 1:20.3 is to become KMR #2 
  I have one of these on order to fill in the role of KMR #2 for my Phase III KMR model railroad. It has not yet arrived, but it should be on the way. No hurry. It is not needed until later this year at the earliest.  The profile is close enough that it will do the job.  This one, along with KMR #1 will be powered by remote battery and will probably be the busiest one on the line just as the original KMR #2 was.  







  This image and the first one are clickable to a larger size


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR coaches 202 & 200
  This is a 1922 photo of the KMR coaches abandoned on a siding on the old Klondike City site. These were purchased for the WPRy in 1899, refurbished and sold to the KMR in 1905. By 1910 they were permanently out of use and left on the rails not far from the Klondike River bridge that crossed over to Dawson City.

These appear in many of the early photos of the KMR. I have not yet selected the rolling stock models which will represent these two coaches on the Phase III line. 


Both images are clickable to a larger size.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR #3
  KMR #3 was a  Baldwin  2-8-0 Vauclain compound built new for the WPRy  as  No. 7, renumbered  as 57 then  sold in 1906 to the KMR as  No. 3.  This was evidently intended to  handle the heavy  freight loads which never materialized.  Because of this, KMR 3 sat mostly unused until 1910 when it was finally put to use hauling firewood. It joined Nos 1 and 2 at the Dawson City Museum in 1961.

These two images are clickable to a larger size. 
  My Accucraft K-27 will fill the role of KMR #3.  The two shots here are not of my engine, which like KMR #3 has sat unused for  a long time because it was unsuitable for the intended purpose due to its unexpectedly large scale.  My own K-27 has only been run on two occasions for a few minutes each time. It has been completely out of service since 2001 when it first arrived here and is not expected to go online until 2010--exactly 100 years after KMR #3 finally was able to go into use for the KMR. It will even be at about the same time--May. That highly special event will undoubtedly call for a celebration of some kind because of the double significance  of it all.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 01/15/2008 2:24 AM
On 1/10/07 you posted "Many of us Americans are actually barred from entering Canada"
It can get more bureaucratic than that. I know one guy who . . .  got held up by the bureacracy for weeks while things were slowly worked through. 

I have also come across the occasional mention of US citizens being turned away at the border even if their paperwork is in order and they have no criminal convictions - especially if the border officials even suspect they are headed towards the high paying jobs in the Tar Sands region. (think single male, 20 to 40, with engineering/mining/mechanic experience).
I don't understand what is happening over there but I have reason to believe that these regretable  incidents are far from isolated cases. Although I have long since given up crossing over into Canada, I do proudly display my Canadian Pacific Railway consist.  The CP has a very special role and meaning in my Phase II project which is currently underway. 

And,  of course, I am prominently modelling this Klondike Minesl Railway, making detailed plans  to reproduce selected parts of the original setting as best as I can in Phase III.  Whatever is going on, I don't wish to be part of the problem.  I am always pleased to work with anyone on that side of the border, especially when it comes to projects such as this one.  There are many of us here in Alaska who would love to see the situation between us in the USA and the many great people in Canada  return to how it was in the old days of not all that long ago. 

Okay. I don't want to pursue this line of thought any further. This is my _Canadian_ project and I am proud of it and remember fondly many years of wonderful experiences over there in the Yukon Territory where I still have many great friends--and a few Native relatives.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR #4
This is the only engine built for the KMR, arriving late in 1912.  It operated nine months before the KMR closed down.
The WP&Y Ry purchased this engine and a number of pieces of rolling stock in 1942 for use on that line where it operated for several more years until being retired in 1952.  It was eventually sold to a buyer in Milwaukee in 1955. It eventually became part of a kind of carnival operation where it was renamed the "Hooterville Cannonball" with the tender indentifed as the "Petticoat Junction RR." This was not the one from the television series, which occurred on the Sierra Railroad in California, but was instead an attempt to cash in on the popularity of that show. The locomotive went through a series of moves over the years and now  sits in storage in Adair, Oklahoma.
  click for larger image


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR #4
This one was a prairie with a straight boiler (click for larger image). 
  







The closest unit I can find is this Bachmann Annie, which will be modified slightly to become KMR #4 on the Phase III model.  I have not yet decided whether I will make this a battery remote control operational unit.  If I do, it will probably go into Barry's Big Trains for a motor block change first. 
  This was KMR 4 in Dawson in 1912-13--the only picture I have seen of this unit in action. (click).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The KMR #4 moves stateside: 
  Purchased in 1955 by Mike Molitor for a theme park railroad at Oak Creek, Wisconsin, this engine waited for the completion of track that never occurred.  It was finally  moved to Waterford, Wisconsin in the early 1960s.   Here it is at the Pepermint & Northwestern, Waterford, WI, in 1962.  The cab sports a "Northwestern" herlad similar to the Chicago & Northwestern. 
  And here we have the Hooterville Cannonball, Sevierville, Tennesee.  This was not the one which was used for the filming of the old television series, "Petticoat Junction."  In fact, this operation only lasted THREE DAYS.  Photo taken July 3, 1965. 

At the time I tentatively labelled one of my Phase II railroad stops "Pettycoat Junction," I did not know this connection existed between an old KMR engine and a failed business attempt to tie the locomotive to the once-popular television series. Maybe I'll build up that and keep the name. 

All these photos are clickable to a larger size.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Current Info on KMR #4: 
















This not is the most current info I have that is posted on KMR 4: 2006-01-27 10:11:11.443 by Jim Boyd:   _This engine has been aquired by Dry Gulch RR and is being restored!!_ (Adair, OK)

Apparently, if you want to see the _one_ remaining operational KMR engine, you can do so!  

*--Ron in CC*


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Phase III v. 1







Version One leaves little room for the additional historic short lines associated with the Klondike: the Cliff Creek railroad line and the Coal Creek railroad line, both with terminals on the Yukon River.  

Phase III, v. 2







This one seems to allow room for the additional short lines I am contemplating.  Either plan can handle the very short Bear Creek line, which consisted of four identical Porters and a line of ore dump cars, plus the WPRy extension that I will probably connect on to the end of the KMR line at Sulpher Springs. 

There is more coming on the additional historic short lines. 
The Yukon River / Klondike River / Bonanza, Eldorado, Bear, Cliff and Coal Creeks:
These present an interesting construction challenge. I will set aside sufficient room to represent sections of all of these river bodies with the intention of ultimately using real water.  

The nature of the ground presents from real problems here, so I have to assume there is some likelihood that some or all of these waterways ultimately may not contain real running water. However, that would be the ideal. 

Incidentally, the final layout should about double the existing track, bringing it in length to somewhere between 1800 and 2200 feet depending on which options I ultimately build into the line.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

If I understand correctly, then Phase III is intended to be a ground level or close to it setup? Not elevated like Phase II?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 01/17/2008 12:40 AM
If I understand correctly, then Phase III is intended to be a ground level or close to it setup? Not elevated like Phase II?
That's correct. All of Phase III will be built at or near ground level. Probably the three townsites will be built on slightly raised platforms for stability, but that will not be apparent.  The areas around those platforms will be filled in. 


--Ron in CC-AK


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Klondike Railroads in Geographic Context of the Yukon River, Ft. Yukon, AK to Whitehorse, YT:
  I used my Google Earth tool to obtain several views of the Klondike area from various angles and distances.  This one sweeps across the upper Yukon River from Ft. Yukon--originally a British outpost--to Dawson City and beyond.  The yellow line is the international border.  

Those two most distant thumbnail markers are placed at Whitehorse and Dease Lake, which is part of the proposed railroad extension that would connect Prince George, B.C. to Alaska via the Cassiar and then the Alcan Highways.  Note how all of these markers are almost in the same axis.  

No modern proposals exist for a railroad line from Whitehorse to the Klondike area. All recent proposals bring the line through the border near Northway, following the more southerly route of the Alcan. 

Click for the larger picture.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Klondike Region from the border: Eagle to Sulpher Springs: 
  Here I bring it up from the American community of Eagle to Cliff Creek  and Forty Mile--an old prospecting ghost town--to Dawson and on to Sulpher Springs--the end of the KMR line.   This is the area of interest for pursposes of my model railroad.  Click for larger image.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Map of the Rail Lines of the Klondike District
  Map showing the two coal mine short lines down the Yukon River from Dawson (click).  Room permitting, these will both be included in the final Phase III plan, possibly in the confinguration shown below.

Forty-Mile was the first gold-rush town in the Yukon, preceding the Klondike by several years. It would be included along with Coal and Cliff Creeks. 







Google-Earth map showing the geographic layout of the Coal Creek-Forty-Mile area and its relationship to Dawson City and Grand Forks (click).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Cliff Creek Railroad Line: 
  Two rail lines once existed to help supply the Dawson City and Klondike gold fields area with coal.  The oldest, Cliff Creek, began developing lignite veins  1 3/4 miles up Cliff Creek in 1898.  Coal mining, where a 400 foot tunnel had been run,  proceeded ahead of the railroad which was waiting spikes so it could be completed.  Instead the first loads of coal bound for Dawson were hauled to the Yukon River with horse-drawn wagons. 

A Porter saddletank arrived in August or September of 1899 to service the North American Transportation and Trading Company which also operated its own steamboats and barges for hauling the coal back upriver.   It was very similar to the four Porters that would later be brought to Bear Creek, except that this Porter had a straight stack.  This  NAT&TCo seven-ton locomotive is believed to be the first locomotive to enter into service in the Klondike district.  

NAT&TCo also brought in six short wheel base coal wagons and a number of smaller gauge mining cars for underground tramming.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Pre-Phase III Map:







I had put this one together before I even considered a Phase II or III layout, probably in 2003.  The KMR Extension and the AK-Alcan RR intersect at Whitehorse, along with the WP & Yukon.  This map assumes that the CRNW Railway would have survived into modern times, connecting into the modern AKRR at Delta. 

My  2003 (?) map even shows the Cliff Creek and Coal Creek railroad lines.  Interesting. I may use this one on my website to help explain the relationship of the Phase I, II, and III layouts.  As it turns out, they integrate rather neatly.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 01/15/2008 8:02 PM
The KMR #4 UPDATE on the model:  Referenced post below: 

Purchased in 1955 by Mike Molitor for a theme park railroad at Oak Creek, Wisconsin, this engine waited for the completion of track that never occurred.  It was finally  moved to Waterford, Wisconsin in the early 1960s.   Here it is at the Pepermint & Northwestern, Waterford, WI, in 1962.  The cab sports a "Northwestern" herlad similar to the Chicago & Northwestern. 
  And here we have the Hooterville Cannonball, Sevierville, Tennesee.  This was not the one which was used for the filming of the old television series, "Petticoat Junction."  In fact, this operation only lasted THREE DAYS.  Photo taken July 3, 1965. 

At the time I tentatively labelled one of my Phase II railroad stops "Pettycoat Junction," I did not know this connection existed between an old KMR engine and a failed business attempt to tie the locomotive to the once-popular television series. Maybe I'll build up that and keep the name. 

All these photos are clickable to a larger size.
A better candidate for KMR #4?

I found this large-scale 2-6-2 on Ebay, bid and won it. This appears to be a more suitable model to stand in for KMR #4. I don't know the make, and assume it is an off-brand. If the scale proves to be right, I will repaint this one in a more suitable scheme and use it, probably as an unpowered display to represent the historic prairie engine that once graced the Klondike. 








If it turns out that I can readily replace that stack, with the new paint job, this model will be an excellent representation of historic KMR #4.  Comments?  Anyone ? 


--Ron at the CRD, Cicely, NX-AK


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 01/18/2008 7:32 PM
The Cliff Creek Railroad Line, Pt 2: 
  
Fortunately for history, at least two pictures still exist which document the existence of this historic short line--and this railroad _was_ short at 1 3/4 miles, but with a five percent grade. 

Obviously  this was a very small, but also somewhat appealing operation from a modeling standpoint. (click).
When the coal mine played out, all the equipment was sold to the new Coal Creek mine that was just coming into operation immediately upriver.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

I was reviewing a discussion in another large-scale forum under the topic of how one chooses to design his layout--a fascinating topic. After reading the responses it is apparent that the average outdoor railroader is definitely very constrained by available size, the existing garden and other physical elements such as  slope, drainage, and then the considerations of the type of track used and whether or not the track will be powered, pluse the desired theme. For instance, "is this layout to be narrow or standard gauge?" or "is this to be a contemporary era layout or a turn-of-the-century one?"

The question as worded is:_ "What is the most used approach to track planning with Large Scale?"_

Then up came a phrase I don't recall seeing before: t_he LDE approach: _

_ "The LDE or Layout Design Element approach is to take a stretch of real railroad somewhere and shrink it down and compress it to fit on the layout. The schematic of the track layout itself ( i.e the relationship between the switches and track ) is keep intact however. The idea is to let the real railroad do all the track planning work while we as modelers simply plagurize it."*

_Although my phase I design has protoype elements built into the design of the track layout itself, my Phase II does not. BUT this newest segment is almost totally based on the LDE approach as laid out in the sentence above, as you will see when I show the historic track plans for each significant segment of the KMR.  In fact, in the case of the KMR, it is largely the historic  track layouts that distinguish it. 

As with most other modelers, I find myself seriously constrained by amount of available space, nature of the ground, and just how much track I am prepared to purchase to obtain the desired results. Additionally, the two newer layouts make use of Llagas track which, being flexible, makes designing the layout immeasurably easier. With my Phase I, when I used 8-foot curve track, some elements of the planning were far more critical and required considerable planning for the allotted space. 


*from the Garden Railways forum


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 01/19/2008 5:26 PM
Posted By blackburn49 on 01/15/2008 8:02 PM
A better candidate for KMR #4?

I found this large-scale 2-6-2 on Ebay, bid and won it. This appears to be a more suitable model to stand in for KMR #4. I don't know the make, and assume it is an off-brand. If the scale proves to be right, I will repaint this one in a more suitable scheme and use it, probably as an unpowered display to represent the historic prairie engine that once graced the Klondike. 








If it turns out that I can readily replace that stack, with the new paint job, this model will be an excellent representation of historic KMR #4.  Comments?  Anyone ? 


--Ron at the CRD, Cicely, NX-AK



*Yep, it's a Buddy L.  This one may see some extensive modification. I am wondering if anyone has ever run one of these things?  It does not strike me that this is a good candidate for battery conversion. Comments? 
Anyone? *


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 01/20/2008 11:11 AM
Posted By blackburn49 on 01/19/2008 5:26 PM
Posted By blackburn49 on 01/15/2008 8:02 PM
A better candidate for KMR #4?

I found this large-scale 2-6-2 on Ebay, bid and won it. This appears to be a more suitable model to stand in for KMR #4. I don't know the make, and assume it is an off-brand. If the scale proves to be right, I will repaint this one in a more suitable scheme and use it, probably as an unpowered display to represent the historic prairie engine that once graced the Klondike. 








Yep, it's a Buddy L.  This one may see some extensive modification. I am wondering if anyone has ever run one of these things?  It does not strike me that this is a good candidate for battery conversion. Comments? 
Anyone? 


*I take it by the lack of response that no one has seen one of these units.  I'll be looking at one of these soon enough and will let you know if I paid too much for it.  Won't be able to test the running gear though as I have no powered track.  *


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Klondike in the early 1900s

I have a couple of views of the Bonanza Creek area probably about 1904--when the KMR was still being organized.  The big gold strikes were over, claims were being consolidated and bigger companies were moving in with larger operations.  But it was still right out of the rough and tumble Old West. 
  Here you see an early view of part of Grand Forks which was completely surrounded by on-going mining activity. When this photo was taken the railroad had not yet arrived. You may click either image for a larger view. 
  The investors in the KMR had failed to take into account how quickly a boom can turn into a bust. There was really no way that a railroad could have been built in time to take advantage of the initial gold rush when 30,000 people invaded the Klondike, bringing with them a potentially huge demand for transporation of goods, machinery,  and people.  But that was a state of affairs that would quickly end. Once the initial rush even showed signs of being over, many of these people began filtering out. The lifespan of the main stop on the KMR route--Grand Forks--would prove to be particularly short. However, even Grand Forks would outlast the KMR.  The massive and near-immediate railroad profits that were enthusiastically and confidently predicated in the KMR prospectus would prove elusive. No, worse than that: non-existent. 

The great Klondike gold rush was a boom, alright, just like the gold rush at Forty Mile down river had been ten years before and the gold rushes at Nome and Fairbanks, Iditarod, Livengood and all the rest would be within the next few years--boom and BUST. First the news of a strike would spread.  There would be that massive onslaught of people, the construction of a huge tent city, then the many semi-permant business store fronts-- and all those unbelievable profits. 

But it would never last long. In a similar fashion,  the greatest Alaskan construction project of all time--the Alyeska Pipeline--would bring an unparalleled boom that would rock the state of Alaska and catapult the Alaskan people into an entirely new era--almost rudely awakening it out of its old territorial, frontier-like state and right into the modern world of the 20th century. Then the boom would falter.  The need for a massive work force would suddenly be over. And I do mean suddenly. One week there would be 20,000 people employed with huge paychecks. Then, a month later, not even a quarter of that still there in the work camps with the numbers falling rapidly.  

The money would quickly dry up as people lost their high-paying jobs--or in the case of the Klondike--had worked out their rich claims--cleaning out all the easily-obtainable gold. All those people who had come to be a part of the big boom  would begin a mass exodus. Businesses would try to sell out, but all would almost inevitably fold. Their owners would find themselves ultimately just giving up and abandoning their stores, their hotels, their bars, their restaurants.  

It would reach the point where all that once-valuable real estate could not be sold at any cut-rate price because there were no takers.  Even the ladies of the night would pack their bags for greener fields and simply slip away--off to the next big rush wherever that would be. 

The KMR was a victim of the Klondike bust.  It was almost like a self-inflicted gunshot wound to one of the knees.  The railroad would never have a change. It would come into being only to begin an immediate slow death.  As the railroad was laying line in one direction, people were heading out en-masse the other way. By the time the track-laying had begun the boom was already over--something that should have been obvious to the investors. . But the railroad show would go on anyway. Because there was still a need--they hoped. After all, those massive dredges and the huge hyraulic operations were moving in--and they needed to be fed. The KMR would find that its greatest purpose in its short railrod life  would not be hauling goods and people or even much machinery. It would become . . .

a firewood hauler. 

--to be continued --


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

In a similar fashion, the greatest Alaskan construction project of all time--the Alyeska Pipeline--would bring an unparalleled boom that would rock the state of Alaska and catapult the Alaskan people into an entirely new era--almost rudely awakening it out of its old territorial, frontier-like state and right into the modern world of the 20th century. Then the boom would falter. The need for a massive work force would suddenly be over. And I do mean suddenly. One week there would be 20,000 people employed with huge paychecks. Then, a month later, not even a quarter of that still there in the work camps with the numbers falling rapidly. 


That about sums up the Trans-Alaska Pipeline construction era. Very very busy from the mid 70's to the late 70's...and then kaput. I remember at one point there was so much pipe coming into Valdez that a small railline was built to the old townsite to handle it. But just a few years later it was all gone. I was also one of the fools out polishing rocks with giant tampons (literally) during the Exxon Valdez oil spill; and again, for a very short while, I remember Valdez as a boom town (I particularly remember the hordes of sidewalk vendors and the nearly empty grocery stores). That boom was over and done with in just a few months. If the gas pipeline project moves ahead, I figure we'll see a five or six year repeat of the boom we went through during the contruction of the trans-alaska pipeline (you might actually get pipeline related biz now and again at Copper Center), though we both know it won't last. I've been telling some of the kids here they should look into getting on with that operation when construction starts - but to not make a career out of it. 

I would point out, though, that even after the construction was done with, the trans-alaska pipeline continued to employ a lot of people - though nowhere near as many as during the construction phase. The production end of things has the potential to last for decades. (But then again so did the mines the Copper River Railway was built to reach...if memory serves, I think there still be a fair amount of copper in those mines even yet.)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The shutdown of the construction phase of the pipeline was  very rapid.  Of course, the pipeliners from Tulsa were sent home first once it was determined that the oil would flow properly. Most of them would have been gone by late July of 1977. Along with them would have gone most of the pipeline construction camp support staff, including the bulk of the cooks, bullcooks. the camp mainenance people, right down to the sewer treatment plant operatiors. A skeleton crew would keep the camps alive briefly, until these were decomissioned. In most cases this happened very quickly. I assume other crews were brought in to move out all of that equipment, including thousands of pickup trucks and heavy duty earth-moving equipment of all kinds.  The camps, like the towns of the Klondike, became ghost towns almost overnight.  

It would take years before many of these camps were wholly dismantled and hauled off, but private contractors would come in and do that.

Meanwhile the bustling downtown Fairbanks and Anchorage took on their old pre-pipeline appearance. There had been no time to build much of anything new during that initial period of construction, so superficially nothing had changed except that once again the streets were nearly empty--those crowds that once consumed all the room on the downtown sidewalks were gone for good, soon to become legends of great adventures that would grow over time.

There would be a second great boom as the state of Alaska began to obtain its revenues from its share of the pipeline oil. New schools would go up in nearly every village, road construction would take off, and construction projects of all types would take off in the larger towns.  This frenzy of activity would in turn bring in the new business that would quickly change the face of both Anchorage and Fairbanks in a way the pipeline construction itself did not.

That new mini-boom went on until 1986. That was the year I abandoned my vending route in the Copper Valley--literally walked away from it--like so many others had done with their businesses in places like Grand Forks and Dawson City, Nome, Iditarod, Flat, McCarthy, Dome, Chatanika, and so many other mostly-forgotten places. My business had become unsustainable. 

By then the building boom was over and the big recession had hit. Major banks failed, people began leaving the state and the big developers of the malls found themselves in bankruptcy as those malls lost their tenants.  The price of oil had plummeted to the point where the state of Alaska itself was almost  not sustainable.  The boom HAD finally become a BUST.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

On this same topic of boom and bust, here is a part of my own story. I wrote a series of short chapters about my return to the Copper River valley, the home of my ancestors and the great Copper River & Northwestern Railway.

In these writings, I  reveal my own attitude at the time that this activity will somehow go on forever, which was very typical of many people who experienced the pipeline construction boom in Alaska.  In some ways things have not changed in a hundred-plus years. 

I was going to post just one chapter, but decided that in order to give it some context, I will present more than one--those most related to my pipeline experience.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

In Pursuit of the Ghost Train of Tsedi-na, Part 6:
My First Experience with the Pipeline, 1975
The Advent of the Alyeska Pipeline: The event which changed everything. 









_Above:  The route of the oil pipeline and a profile map in the context of the entire state of Alaska._ 

_Below: The pipeline construction camps, 1974-77: __ You won't readily find this map anymore. The camps are mostly long-gone since the early 1980s or even earlier. In place of these camps are the various pump stations, some of which have also since been abandoned. None of the pump stations were located on or even near these construction camps. The pipeline camps were for construction of the actual line while there were separate camps at every proposed pump station location. _











The Alyeska Pipeline was the single largest privately-financed construction project of the time. To say it changed most everything in Alaska is an understatement. From the moment those first oil field leases were let out by the State of Alaska in 1969, the future course of Alaska was set and the lives of every one of its citizens would be greatly affected forever--even those living in the most remote of places within the state. I was one of many for whom this event marked a pivotal change which would affect me for a lifetime. During the height of construction, over 20,000 people from all over the world were employed on the project. All of them would be affected in similar ways, for this was a project like no other. 


Franklin Bluffs was the name of my first camp. It was March of 1975 and I was flying from Fairbanks across the Arctic Circle to a pipeline construction camp that was only fifty miles south of Prudhoe Bay. I believe the company who had the contract flying to the northern camps was Wien Air. They are long gone, but at the time they were a well-established yet typically-Alaskan operation--a bare bones and sometimes white-knuckled flying operation. The turbo-prop probably held two-dozen people, if that many, with room for a huge assortment of duffel bags, tool kits, boxes held together with duct tape and all the other odd assortment of baggage we in the North Country are used to seeing on pipeline workers' flights such as this one.


This was my first real job since leaving the Army nearly a year before. I was excited, knowing that this could be the beginning of a career that would take me on to even bigger and better things. Yes, it was a three-year construction project, but most all of us who were part of that gargantuan operation, including me, somehow seemed to believe it would go on forever. I can recall nothing in my life quite as exhilarating as when I finally became a part of the Alyeska Pipeline project.
  

_Franklin Bluffs camp, winter view: This was the camp that I first saw during those late winter months that I worked here as a Native site counselor. Nothing exists at this site but the gravel pad upon which this camp was built. Like all the other construction camps, this one was disassembled and hauled off after the work here was completed.  We landed on a gravel strip adjacent this camp. Franklin Bluffs is on the North Slope amoist nothing but tundra. There are no trees and few geographic features. There is a slight bluff from which this camp took its name, but nothing exists here to stop the incessant winds from blowing up a real storm. Those create total white-outs making road travel nearly impossible. There were plenty of those.  Click for a larger view. _


We landed without incident in the most barren country I had ever seen. All there was to be seen was one bluff as we were landing--and not much of one at that--and miles upon miles of a vast white flat featureless landscape wholly devoid of any distinguishing features. This was the North Slope. The camp itself was a camp of ATCO units built somewhere in Canada and transported by truck over the Alcan Highway. It was a series of parallel flat-roofed single-story barracks connected by very long and wide hallways that were heated by large diesel-burning space heaters.  The halls were brighly-lit with barracks extending at right angles out of the them probably about every fifty feet. I don't know how many of these there were, but the camp was designed to house 1,100 men. All of this was interconnected with a large dining and kitchen facility somewhere near the front of the camp close to the  various offices. Outside were rows of steel buildings which served as warehouses, repair shops and support facilities for water, sewer treatment and power, among other things. 


Everywhere were the bright yellow Alyeska pickup trucks and suburbans. Almost all of them were 1975 model Chevrolets. There were dozens upon dozens of these--especially the pickup trucks. Then there were all the heavy yellow pipeline construction equipment. All of it was kept running all the time because diesel engines  shut down had a bad habit of not restarting out here in this arctic environment.


I had a camp manager who was a Texan to answer to but my real boss was Lonnie Thomas and Bob Scanlon, who headed the Native Training Program for Bechtel which was based in Fairbanks on Ft. Wainwright.  Lonnie was either a Tlingit or a Haida Indian originally from Klawak, not far from Ketchikan on Prince of Whales Island. Bob Scanlon was not Indian, but he was a good and dedicated boss. I know that because I soon felt the need to throw a curve ball his way and he caught it.  He backed me up under rather difficult circumstances.


I was at camp primarily to ensure that our force of Natives would somehow remain on the job. Whatever it took to do that was my responsibility. Most of these Natives were villagers who had never worked construction before. They were typically very young--18 to 21 and mostly male. This was a very volatile group. They did not understand these outsiders who had come to build this massive pipeline and I suspect that many of the Natives were intimidated by them--especially the Texans and Oklahomans who comprised the bulk of the pipeline workers.  I was facing a job which was really unwinnable, but I did not realize it at the time. 


I had a lot of problems with the Resident Site Manager Bob Stiles who was from Texas. He did not understand Natives and obviously did not want to. He barely tolerated me. I had to try to work around him. The camp manager, who was also a Texan, was easier to work with, so I often brought my immediate concerns to him.  Unfortunately what I discovered is that the real power resided in  Bob Stiles. It would not be long before we would have to square off. 


But the real problem we Natives seemed to face was, as usual, within our own ranks. Too many of my fellow Natives found ways to bootleg liquor into the camp. Many a night there were alcohol binge parties which often resulted the next day in Native workers either being fired or feeling sorry for themselves and simply quitting. The worst incident happened shortly after a huge number of United Association Local 798 Pipeline workers showed up with their Native welder helpers as per the agreement whereby so many Native welder helpers had to be hired into those positions. It was basic trainee level. It could have worked, too, but many of the senior 798 welders found ways to discourage or otherwise drive off their Native welder helpers. Then they started bringing in their own family members from Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas to replace the Natives. In one week over sixty of my Native workforce had quit. I stood there in disbelief as I watched planeloads of Natives departing the camp. It was a disaster.


Meanwhile I had this ongoing struggle with Bob Stiles which kept getting worse. He finally sent one of his henchmen to warn me to straighten up and shut up. I shot off a long report down to the head office, the follow-up to a telephone conversation I had with Lonnie Thomas and Bob Scanlon. They wanted the report in detail. I had taken good notes. They got what they wanted. In the end, even though I found I was unable to hold onto nearly as many Natives at Franklin Bluffs as I would have liked, at least I got the last laugh on Bob Stiles. He was removed as Resident Site Manager. Shortly after that I decided I had had enough of a losing situation and I notified Fairbanks via an explanatory letter that I too would be leaving.


Over the course of the few months that I was at Franklin Bluffs I had the chance to go out into the field numerous times, even though Bob Stiles often tried to block my access out there. I interviewed dozens of Natives on the site and in the barracks, all the time trying to collect data to demonstrate what was actually happening to our Native work force. I saw first hand a lot of mistreatment of Natives and in a few cases was able to successfully intervene. What I took away from that assignment was a burning desire to somehow find a way in my personal life to make up for the bad hand I had seen dealt to all too many of the obviously unsophisticated remote-village Natives who often were unable to adapt to a situation such as the one presented in the early days of pipeline construction which involved long but regular hours working with a wide variety of people who knew little or nothing about Natives.


The snow and ice had melted off the tundra. I had had enough of that North Slope camp in more ways than one. Except for one brief break, I had been there about four months, working sometimes both night and day in a futile  attempt to keep as many Natives employed on this part of the pipeline as possible. I felt that I had failed, but at least I provided a detailed record of what had happened there to my head office in Fairbanks. 


Now it was time to begin looking for a new career.  How was I to know that a year later I would end up right back where I had started this personal adventure--at Franklin Bluffs? All those construction camps and pump station camps and before the year was out I would be back on the North Slope in that very camp. Funny how life works out sometimes. 


Meanwhile I picked up this marvelous book--essentially a political history of the construction era of a long-forgotten railroad--the Copper River & Northwestern Railway. I had never really thought of myself as a rail-fan. It had been years since I had thought much about trains at all. Some things in life cannot be escaped. Not only would I soon return to Franklin Bluffs, but I was about to meet an ancestor I never even imagined had ever existed.  And in the process I too would become a dedicated historic railroader. 
 








_An abandoned CR & NW Railway box-stock car in the near-ghost town of Chitina--not far from the traditional home of Nicolai of Taral. _


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

There will be more to follow. I just wanted to give you the sense of what it was like to be there--33 years ago.


--Ron in CC


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2008)

hello,

when i read your remarks about the difficult adaption between cultures, it seems to me, that all of the americas is the same. save temperature...

korm
.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 01/23/2008 12:46 PM
hello,

when i read your remarks about the difficult adaption between cultures, it seems to me, that all of the americas is the same. save temperature...

korm
.
You are quite right. In the case of Alaska, though, it the advent of the Alyeska Pipeline really radically transformed everything well beyond the unavoidable problems of the culture clashes. I would imagine that as the great transcontinental railroads advanced westward, similar cultural adjustments occurred. A wild frontier would vanish quickly once it became so readily accessible.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 01/18/2008 7:32 PM
The Cliff Creek Railroad Line (continued): 
  Two rail lines once existed to help supply the Dawson City and Klondike gold fields area with coal.  The oldest, Cliff Creek, began developing lignite veins  1 3/4 miles up Cliff Creek in 1898. .  .  









Cliff Creek to Coal Creek on the Yukon River








Using the top map as a reference, you can identify Cliff Creek in the Google satellite image below on the right, then an unidentified creek, then Shell Creek,* then the larger, braided Coal Creek on the right.  The nature of the country you see is very typical for most of the Yukon River from Nulato to somewhere upriver from Dawson.  If you right-click on this image and select "view image" you will see the larger version.   


This area today is just as wild as it would have been in the days when those first prospectors arrived here in the 1880s seeking the gold of nearby Forty-Mile, which is also in the above image on the far right at the river. The area would be heavily overgrown, but if you looked carefully, you would still find the occasional abandoned trapper's cabin and one thing more . . . 

Somewhere out there it is alleged that an engine, possibly from one of these two operations, rests in the brush, just out of sight of anyone approaching from the river. 
_* My guess is that this name is a reference to fossilized shells that often appear in areas of coal seams in Alaska and the Yukon_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

In fact, at one time, three of the four remaining engines at Coal Creek were parked in the river muck at the mouth of the river. These were finally salvaged in the late 1960s and have all survived. I will provide the list of locations for these later. 

Imagine heading down this massive pristine river in a small skiff and passing this creek and then spotting these old locomotives from another era just sitting there on the bank of the river ! 

There is one engine that was never accounted for. I assume this is the one I mentioned in the previous post. I learned of it from an Indian who used to live near Eagle and who gave me a description which matches one of those small saddletank engines. He told me it was well-hidden in the brush. 

Now, I ask you, what can be more cool than making THAT kind of a find ! It remains hidden and unaccounted for to this day, too.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_Note:  This is a continuation from part 6, which appears in this thread.  I am running a part of this story to show what it was like to be a part of the Alaskan work force during the last Big Boom in Alaska--the construction of the Alyeska Pipeline:  --RS_
In Pursuit of the Ghost Train of Tsedi-na, Part 7:
I Leave the Pipeline Project the First Time, 1975

 

_*Above:* "Two-Street," Fairbanks: Picture was probably taken in the mid-1950s, but this scene had changed little by the time the pipeline construction project began in 1975.  This street was lined with bars in those days--most of them almost exclusively Native--both Indian and Eskimo bars. But the pipeliners and military men from the adjacent fort and an Air Force   base came down here too. By the mid-80s, most of these bars would be gone. By now, only ONE out of maybe a dozen and a half bars in this area still operates.  (click)_ 

Sometime in early summer Alyeska fired its prime contractor Bechtel and took over its function as manager of the pipeline construction. I was among those laid off by Bechtel, but then rehired by Alyeska. However, I looked at the package offered and decided, especially in view of what had already transpired at Franklin Bluffs, that it was time to leave. I had taken time to go into Fairbanks and check in with the main office. We discussed the problems I had encountered with the resident site manager. I had documented the incidents and these were apparently brought to the attention of someone higher up in Alyeska. By the time I returned to camp for my last few weeks as a site counselor, Bob Stiles had been relieved. With him gone, I felt I had accomplished something positive and I sent a letter of resignation to my superior in Fairbanks. 


Winter had melted away and I stepped into a beautiful, warm summer in Fairbanks. I was enormously relieved to leave Franklin Bluffs and that thankless job behind me. 


When Alyeska moved into Fairbanks, it literally took over the town. It seemed that every other vehicle on the road was an official Alyeska truck. Their main base of operations was the nearby Ft. Wainwright facility.  That was also where new pipeline hands checked in and had their orientation, including a video on how to dress in an arctic environment. 


One of the effects of all these new people in Fairbanks with all that money was a dramatic rise in the cost of living there, particularly when it came to rental units. They became exceedingly expensive when one could find a place at all. I was fortunate to be able to locate an old cabin on the edge of town, available at a very low price that was being rented by one of my fellow counselors. He was leaving town, so I was able to take over the rent on this place which had no electricity or plumbing. I would soon add power to the cabin, but water would always have to be hauled in and the outhouse was in the back about a hundred feet from the cabin. Living there was much like it would have been at the turn of the century--which was about the age of the cabin. 


Although it had a place for a chimney, I had to install a new chimney and an iron stove, since the cabin was empty of everything. The previous occupant had never actually used it. He kept it as a back-up if he ever needed it.  Since the time I had graduated from college, this was actually my first home, not counting the barracks I lived in during Army days. I already had some experience with wiring, so I was able to set up the meter base and a basic electrical system without too much difficulty. 


I did not want to spend a lot of money on rent since I had no idea how long I would be unemployed. As it turned out, I would not be going back to work until the next winter. But there were plenty of interesting things to do in the meantime. 










_Mine was a genuine log cabin with corrugated steel for a roof. I installed a wood stove  and made it home. Because of its small size, even in the minus 55 degree weather, it was relatively easy to quickly heat and keep warm. I hauled water from an artesian well ten miles away. Some years ago when I traveled down College Road where this was located, it was gone--probably burned down. _
I wanted to visit some of the Native villages. I had met so many villagers, but I had not grown up in anything like that. Ketchikan was a small American main street type of town of the type that probably no longer exists today, but it definitely was no village. It had all the amenities of the time, including a first-class school system that enabled me to have a very good education that enabled me to apply and receive and ROTC scholarship. Now it was time to see how my fellow Natives who were not so fortunate lived. 

I had already made arrangements with a Yukon River Native to travel down the Yukon River as far as Ruby where he lived. Al McCarty had worked at Franklin Bluffs. He told me that he was buying a 16-foot riverboat and a 40 horse Johnson engine when he returned to Fairbanks. I would be among those riding along. The Chena River flows through Fairbanks, then quickly meets the Tanana River. This is the one which passes through Nenana where the annual Nenana Ice Classic is held. This is a type of lottery event where one enters his best guess as to the time of the breakup of the Tanana River at a point where a tripod is set up right in front of Nenana--now an Indian village, but at one time a significant railroad town. When the Alaska Railroad arrived at the Tanana River, it established a large facility there because for several years, Nenana was the end of the line. In 1923, the golden spike was finally driven here by President Warren Harding--the one which commemorated the completion of the Alaska Railroad between Anchorage and Fairbanks. But in the meantime, the railroad employees set up an annual event which continues to this day--making calculated guesses that can net a significant prize from a very large jackpot. 


The Tanana River continues through this area, past the deserted village of Old Minto and on to the village of Tanana where it meets the Yukon River. Beyond there is Ruby.  It is a very long trip by boat. The prime barge line which plies these same waters is owned by the Alaska Railroad Corporation, as it has been for many decades. 


Below you can see the map which shows you this area in the context of the Alaska Railroad.  

 

_This map shows the 1925 serum run in which serum was shipped via railroad from Anchorage to Nenana, then sent via dogsled to Nome in record time. This event was followed in newspapers nationwide, making it quite famous. Eventually the Iditarod dog sled race evolved out of this historic event. The race alternates, going either through Iditarod itself or through Ruby, where I spent a part of the summer of 1975. (click)_
At some point I decided that it was time to try to find more work on the pipeline. I was able to enroll in a special school in Kenai that trained Natives to operate sewer and water treatment plants of the type used by Alyeska. Soon I would be back at work. Meanwhile, a fellow student took me on a drive from Anchorage to Glennallen. It was the first time I had been up that road which is now the one I travel on routinely. On the way up, not far out of Palmer, I saw this site: The Matanuska River flowing in front of King Mountain, which, as it later turned out, was named after an old friend of my Dad's father. This mountain was directly across from the old, deserted village of Chickaloon where I was registered. 

Like many other places, including Nenana and Chitina and Talkeetna, Native villages were often displaced by railroad work camps. Chickaloon was one of those places. The Alaska Railroad had a branch line up there from about 1918 until 1923 when the Chickaloon coal mines owned by the U.S. Navy was deemed to be unsuitable for Navy ships and was abandoned. It was a standard gauge branch line. One of the old railroad bridges is still out there, but it is not in use. 


The moment I viewed this scene, I began to have a flashback to something I had long forgotten. I was now finding myself expecting to see a large camp of red-painted buildings somewhere along a rocky river at the base of a mountain like this one. 

 

_King Mountain near Chickaloon in a photo taken last year from Highway One, the Glenn, along the Matanuska River.  (click). _
 

_Porphyry Mountain, just beyond McCarthy and just above Kennecott: Does this  one resemble King Mountain? At the approach angle to Kennecott that you see here, it certainly does. I had never been to Kennecott, or McCarthy and had never seen any photos of this place, but here it was. (click). Photo taken about 1920.  _
I did not really give it much thought at the time. I just felt that I should be expecting to see buildings for which I knew no name.  I was not thinking in terms of railroads, but I knew that I was looking for an abandoned mine site.  As of yet I had no name. Dad had never talked about Kennecott, because it was not a part of his life when he grew up at the Jesse Lee home in Seward. And even though I had read many Alaska Sportsmen magazines--the ones which had stories and photos of the old Alaska--I had never encountered any stories or photos of Kennecott. But somehow I knew that place was out there. I just did not have a name for it. 
  I sensed that I was about to enter the land that was my true home. In those days I did not know how true that really was.
 

 
_The Kennecott ghost town mill as it appeared in 1981. (click)_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_Note: This is a continuation from part 7, which appears in this thread. I am running a part of this story to show what it was like to be a part of the Alaskan work force during the last Big Boom in Alaska--the construction of the Alyeska Pipeline: --RS_  
In Pursuit of the Ghost Train of Tsedi-na, Part 8:
The Influence of Lone Janson's  "Copper Spike," 1976


 
 
 








   








  *First Edition of The Copper Spike* *Lone Janson, c. 1998*     I have often wondered whatever happened to that first edition copy of The Copper Spike that I picked up in the Book Cache bookstore in Fairbanks in 1976.  That book had a profound effect on my life, yet years later I was unable to find it. By the time I started looking for it again, nearly twenty years after I purchased that first copy, the book was long out of print and very expensive. It took many months of searching before I was able to find another copy.  I believe I found one in Powell's Bookstore in downtown Portland for a price of about fifty dollars. 

At the time I picked up that first one I was thoroughly intrigued by both the many dramatic images and a well-written story line about a history I had never even seen a reference to until that time. 


The back cover read:


"In 1975 the trans-Alaska pipeline is the headline story, the focus of attention in Alaska.  But wayback in 1905 to 1911 there was another construction job that was comparable in magnitude and interest.  The building of a railroad up the Copper River, from tidewater to the rich copper mines at Kennicott was an epic event that pitted gang against gang in pitched battles over rights-of-way.   There were Herculean struggles to overcome natural obstacles, including the building of a bridge where experts said none could be built . . . "


What a story. The combination of the construction of that railroad and the concurrent development of an enormous underground copper mine well before the railroad even reached that mine site made it the second largest privately-financed construction project of the time in the Territory of Alaska. This was only eclipsed by the Alyeska pipeline project itself, which became the largest project of its type in the world--with similarly near-impossible obstacles to overcome in a remote and hostile arctic environment. 


I had already been there in an arctic camp and had quite an appreciation for what those early engineers, surveyors and the rail line builders must have endured to accomplish such a feat, but under much worse conditions without access to modern earth-moving equipment. 
 
  
*







*   *







* *Laying the 48-inch pipe in 1975-76*
  *Five-Mile camp near Pump Station 6, Yukon River*
The story told of a long battle, primarily between the federal government, which sought to prevent the Guggenheims, prime owner of the copper resources, from gaining access to vast coal reserves. This was done by closing off the coal lands and then declaring them part of a national forest. To this day that area with all its reserves has never been developed. Yet the building of competing railroads in order to access interior Alaska and the copper and gold fields was marked by intense, if somewhat brief, violent episodes, including a shoot-out in Keystone Canyon, which is one of the roughest parts of the Alyeska Pipeline route.  In the end, the Guggeheims--and J.P. Morgan, whose money backed the railroad construction--prevailed mainly out of very good planning, some incredible luck and vast funds backing what appeared at the time to be a near-impossible task. 



 


_The Million-Dollar Bridge, 1570 feet long as it appeared after span number four fell in following the 1964 earthquake:  This was the scene of some of the most dramatic moments during the construction of the railroad. This bridge was almost lost when the river ice started moving during the erection of the third span--the one over the main channel (450 feet).  This bridge was built between two facing glaciers. Shortly after the bridge was successfully installed, one of those glaciers began advancing on this bridge. Had it continued, that would have marked the permanent end of the railroad before it even had a chance to begin service. Click for larger photo. _

Lone Janson largely limited her book to the story behind the construction, but that account opened the door to many questions about the railroad, about Kennecott, about what happened after it was all over. For me it was all new. I had never even heard of this railroad, had never seen nor knew of a rotary snow plow nor of much else associated with railroads of the time.  Nor did I have any appreciation of the role of Big Business in Alaska and specifically that of the Guggenheim family and their corporate heir, the Kennecott Copper Company which became a world-wide conglomerate because of that initial success in Alaska. 

 

_Above: One of four massive CRNW rotaries at the port of Cordova (click).  Below:  A final  consist in Chitina, CRNW mile 131,  following the closing and final abandonment of the railroad in November of 1938.  _ 









There was something about looking at those engines with all that steam coming out which excited me. Those old images awakened something deep inside of me that I had no idea existed. This was not a feeling I had before experienced, even though at one time I had owned a small steam model railroad as a boy--some two decades before I read that book.  Then there were the images of the mine itself. This one in particular got my attention. When I turned to this photo of the Bonanza mine at Kennecott, probably taken about 1917,  I  immediately had the feeling that I knew this scene, that it was somehow a part of my life. But this was a particularly busy time in my life. Events were moving fast. I had little time to contemplate my own deeply personal reactions to this book. Soon it would be buried--just as my early dreams of those deserted red-painted buildings along the hill with the rocky rubble in front were forgotten--for now. (Image can be enlarged). 
 

It was time for me to find work back on the pipeline. I was trained to be an operator and I wanted to become one.  It would take longer than I thought, but by early winter I would be on my way back north in my new role as a young union hand, ready to become part of the greatest construction project ever to hit Alaska. 










_A CRNW passenger consist at the Million Dollar Bridge, CRNW mile 49_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_Note: This is a continuation from part 8, which appears in this thread. I am running a part of this story to show what it was like to be a part of the Alaskan work force during the last Big Boom in Alaska--the construction of the Alyeska Pipeline.  This also details the early beginnings of my large-scale model railroad.  --RS_ In Pursuit of the Ghost Train of Tsedi-na, Part 9: 
I decide on "G-scale," 1994

  
I was five years into the project and nearly two decades from the point where I had first read "The Copper Spike." By now I had located another one and had studied those pictures very carefully. Beyond that, I had accumulated many hours of research time in the University of Alaska-Fairbanks Polar Regions photo archives where I had already collected dozens of hard copies of my own photos of "the project." The project consisted of anything related to Kennecott, its railroad and the people who were a part of it. My early research concentrated on the buildings. Then came the railroads, then the people, with a strong emphasis on the Native people. But that was still years away.
Now I was looking at the one thing which tied the project together. That, of course, was the Copper River & Northwestern Railway.  I had been studying the buildings for some time and had decided that a modeling project was in order even though I had never modeled anything in my life up to that point. My old 0-guage railroad was simply a set. It required building nothing additional. In those days I had never heard of that anyway. Besides, when I got that set I was only nine. 
Now I was looking for the ideal model. I had already played around with HO scale, acquiring some Alaska Railroad stock and track and then mounting a track layout onto a board. But something about it was just not satisfactory. I was disappointed with the performance of the equipment and did not care for the way some of the rolling stock seemed only too ready to derail. The scale just did not excite me at all. I disassembled the layout and packed it away for good. 
Next I headed over to a local hobby store which had somehow caught my attention. Perhaps someone had recommended it to me or maybe I saw a television advertisement. In any case, it turned out to be an 0-gauge store full of fascinating equipment, mostly steam. This immediately grabbed my interest. But I was unpleasantly surprised at the cost. The kind of equipment I was considering seemed excessively expensive.
Then along came an older man and his wife whom I had met in a downtown restaurant where I ran video games. I must have spent some time talking about my historic project with them, because one day he appeared showed up at my house with a Bachmann 2-6-0 --the one you see pictured above. It was perfect ! Not only did it look right, but it was a much more suitable size. In those days I had no access to the internet. I am not sure it even existed in Fairbanks. But there was a telephone number that someone else gave me. It was to Trainworld in New York. I gave them a call and they sent me a catalog. It was not long before . . . 
  

I had begun developing quite a fleet. My home was too small to run anything, so I set up a platform in the living room, placed green felt on the surface, and began setting up track to display my growing CRNW rolling stock fleet.
  

In the background you can see some of the pictures I had already acquired from my research. I had been obtaining large, high-quality hard copies of historic photos, including many panoramas for later use. By this time I also had two large albums full of 8 X 10 black and white photos that I used for reference for the model project. I already knew that I would be selling my business and moving on to a lodge somewhere on my old vending route where it would be possible to set up an overhead working model with those photos on the walls below to help document the historic project.  Nothing was settled yet. I seemed to have a buyer for my old business, but the process would take a lot of time. I only knew that I would be leaving Fairbanks soon. I did not know it would still be two years before that would happen.
Meanwhile, in this process of creating what would become the beginning of a large historic railroad diorama, I discovered something far more significant than anything I had learned in my research. I now knew something about my very own family which tied me directly to this project--something I never would have imagined in the days when I was still on the pipeline project.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2008)

HEY! don't stop!

just go on with that story!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 01/18/2008 7:32 PM
The Cliff Creek Railroad Line: 
  Two rail lines once existed to help supply the Dawson City and Klondike gold fields area with coal.  The oldest, Cliff Creek, began developing lignite veins  1 3/4 miles up Cliff Creek in 1898. . .

A Porter saddletank arrived in August or September of 1899 to service the North American Transportation and Trading Company . . . .  










The LGB Porter to represent this line is now on the way. It is the fifth one I have purchased, mostly through Ebay since these units are no longer available, in order to complete the series of locomotives I need for the KMR and the nearby short lines in the Klondike. All are different paint schemes that will be eventually repainted and renumbered as per the historic prototypes.







In a way it will be a shame to repaint these since they represent a line of LGB products that will probably never be manufactured again. I recall first seeing these in the mid 1990s in a train shop near Portland which no longer exists. It was an impressive little engine which at the time did not fit into my model railroad plans. But, like I indicated, I will now have five of these of various themes.


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2008)

if you got enough money, go on buying, till you got enough for collecting and for your setting.
if not, i'm sure you will repaint.

those sacks, you loaded on your flatcars, what are they made of?

korm
.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The original Cliff Creek engine is back in service !







This is engine no. 1, sold to  the North American Transportation & Trading Company after being built in 1899.  It went to the adjacent Coal Creek mine in 1903 and was sold to the Tanana Mines Railroad as engine #1 in 1905.  TMR became the Tanana Valley Railroad in 1907 where it continued to operate until 1929 when it was retired and put on display at the old Fairbanks railroad depot. It has since been picked up by the Friends of the Tanana Valley Railroad, restored and placed into service at Pioneer Park, formerly Alaskaland, in Fairbanks.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 01/25/2008 9:34 AM
if you got enough money, go on buying, till you got enough for collecting and for your setting.
if not, i'm sure you will repaint.

those sacks, you loaded on your flatcars, what are they made of?

korm
.
Those sacks were hand-made for me years ago. I believe there were over a thousand of them eventually made. They are camel-colored pool table felt with pillow stuffing. I still have most of those in use.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

*Correction* on that: the ones you see in that early photo were the original ones, which were more orangish in color. I still have those but they are not currently in use. The camel-colored ones, however, are still on display inside the bar.     *The Phase I CRNW Railway: *_ images are clickable to a larger size_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 01/25/2008 9:18 AM
HEY! don't stop!

just go on with that story!
Okay. I have several segments left to go. Another one will be on the way in a few moments before I head off to Anchorage in a few hours . . .


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_Note: This is a continuation from part 9, which appears in this thread. I am running a part of this story to show what it was like to be a part of the Alaskan work force during the last Big Boom in Alaska--the construction of the Alyeska Pipeline. Remember that this is a recollection of events and is not intended to represent any particular point of view except in the historic perspective of the times. --RS_ In Pursuit of the Ghost Train of Tsedi-na, Part 10: 
I Return to the Pipeline: late 1975

At some point in early fall of 1975 I obtained my union dispatch (Operators 302) to Pump Station 6 on the Yukon River as a waste water treatment plant operator.  We were going into winter, one that would prove to be a near-record-breaker for cold temperatures. Meanwhile, pipeline and pump station construction was humming along close to the original schedule set by Alyeska. 
All of the pump stations were under the prime contractor Fluor. It was said that their camps had better food and better hours. As it turned out, that was true. The camps were smaller and life was not quite so hectic because the pipeliners who were the source of much of the discord along the project were mostly in the pipeline construction camps, such as Franklin Bluffs or nearby Five Mile Camp. 









*Pump Station 6 during construction, view looking north: (click for larger image)*

 

_PS. 6 was built along a hillside. The temporary barracks where I stayed are in the foreground. Like most pump stations, these were two-story units whereas the construction camps were all single-story. Pump stations grounds were very compact. There was not much room to spread out. In the distance you can see part of the Yukon River. P.S. 6 is located on a narrow stretch of river between Stevens Village and Ft. Yukon  to the east and Rampart and then Tanana to the west. _









_ The official pipeline map shows only the pump stations. Pump stations two, six, seven, eight, ten, eleven and twelve are either abandoned or are about to be .  Pump stations one, three, four, five and nine are being updated with modern equipment, including new pumps and turbines. P.S. One is the first one, located right at Prudhoe Bay. Five is just north of the Yukon River and P.S. Nine, the last one, is near Delta Junction north of the Alaska Range. No stations are currently operating south of this point and probably never will be for the remaining life of this system. _ 
  

I was only at this camp a short time before I ran into a conflict with a group of Irish nationals who had literally taken over a part of the camp--the union laborers. They were all Irish Republican Army (IRA) at a time when that terrorist outfit was very active in both Northern Ireland and England itself. They were extremely thrifty and  sent most of their wages off to Ireland, more often than not to support the IRA cause.


At the time I did not realize  this group also had a strong political presence within the Alaska local labor union.  Some of these men worked in the same plant as I did. I made the mistake of expressing my displeasure that there were so many Irish nationals and hardly any Natives on jobs where Natives could be working. I doubt if it was to more than one or two people, and there was no argument. But, the next thing I knew, I was forced off the job and sent packing back to Fairbanks. 


This was an experience that always stayed with me. Twenty-five years later I wrote my historic novel where I had a chance to get even in a literary sense with these Irish men. The thing about that experience that stung me the most was that this happened right in the very heart of Yukon River country--Athabascan territory. We were within sight of that very river, which to me was like being on sacred ground. I was told that my position would be eliminated and that I would get a reduction-in-force and that was that. I was gone.


I must say, though, that there was another lesson to be learned from my experience there, particularly for us Natives. It was this: the Irish had survived just as the Jewish people had by sticking together no matter what. In the most unlikely of places they popped up and exerted their political force in a way most people would not believe. It was wrong of us Americans to tolerate that, but then, the existence of these Irish nationals (they were most definitely not American citizens) went on almost totally unnoticed--and their close connections with the IRA were not generally understood, but I was told outright what I had encountered so I knew.


I should point out that none of this, whether it involves Texans or Irishmen or any other group is anything more than a discussion of how territorial this project had become. People were divided into groups not based on race so much as country or state of origin or by union association.  There was, for example no real issue among Alaskans as far as Native versus non-Native, but there certainly was when it came to Teamster versus Pipeliner or union versus management. It is really too bad. Alaska went into the pipeline construction project at the end of an extended economic slump that only the pipeline would alleviate. Many Alaskans were either out of work or were working very poorly-paying jobs considering the cost of living in Alaska. But the pipeline construction brought with it a flood of outside labor that wholly overwhelmed our home-grown workforce. Of course, we had very few who could perform the specialized task of pipefitter, but there was never any shortage of laborers or qualified teamsters or operating engineers.  On top of all that, a great deal of tension developed between the pipeliners and everyone else which did nothing to help a very tense situation. It was all territorial and it is not something that those of us who lived it will ever forget.


In any case, that experience had its impact. I would re-create characters much like those Irish laborers and use similar characters along with that highly negative  in my novel.  This occurred  during the period of the CRNW railroad construction as it approached Chitina in 1910.  All of the events I used were historic, even down to the nationality of the laborers who were Irish, but this time I could write a more satisfactory ending.  Maybe that was just meant to be. It all fit with the historic record. But at the time I was unceremoniously removed from camp, believe me, it was not a pleasant experience.
To be continued


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

In Pursuit of the Ghost Train of Tsedi-na: 







_Abandoned CRNW Railway tracks near Strelna, east of Chitina:  _

I have a few more segments of "In Pursuit" to go. I set these up for my website only a month or two ago. These will probably appear early next week.  _Was there really a ghost train?  If you were to ask me personally, I would tell you . . . _


--Ron at the CRD


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2008)

i just like your style. it is more like a spoken story, then like something written. 

Those sacks were hand-made ...

i feared that. 

i think you must have still got the prohibition in alaska. 
(the only explanation i found, how a bar can finance a whole railroad-empire) 

korm 
.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Ron, where'd you get a photo of my track work?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 01/25/2008 12:48 PM
Ron, where'd you get a photo of my track work?
That is a photo of the abandoned tracks near Strelna, about 15 miles east of Chitina, when they were still in place in the mid-1950s. This image appeared in an article in the Anchorage Daily News some years ago to illustrate the effects of permafrost on various types of construction. The Strelna area is heavily underlain with permafrost and was an ongoing railroad maintenance problem as long as the railroad operated. Even in recent times, the McCarthy road, which follows the old track bed, still resembled a roller coaster in places. This has been mostly fixed, but it is probably only a matter of time before the permafrost once again takes a heavy toll on this abandoned railroad grade. 

The area shown was one of the places I considered when searching for a train which was not there--at least not where it could be seen--the infamous ghost train of Chitina.   I was actually looking for remnants of abandoned CRNW rolling stock which had never been accounted for, but without any success.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 01/25/2008 11:30 AM
i just like your style. it is more like a spoken story, then like something written. 

Those sacks were hand-made ...

i feared that. 

i think you must have still got the prohibition in alaska. 
(the only explanation i found, how a bar can finance a whole railroad-empire) 

korm 
.
It's not so much that the bar can afford it. It probably can't. I'm doing it anyway.

Those sacks: the first group was made for me by a couple of Eskimo women for a price I can no longer remember. I think that first batch was about 600 bags. The second batch was done over time, of which eventually another thousand were made. I do not recall THAT cost, either.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2008)

your suppliers, didn't they think, you are crazy?
the man, who turned 500 wooden barrels for me, told everybody, that i am nuts.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 01/25/2008 8:29 PM
your suppliers, didn't they think, you are crazy?
Only if they compare notes.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 01/25/2008 11:30 AM

(the only explanation i found, how a bar can finance a whole railroad-empire) 

korm 
.
You're the second person to refer to my layout-in-making as an "*empire*." Thanks for the designation, but this outdoor model railroad is probably only a little larger than the average size, and definitely a lot smaller than some of the others I have seen here on MLS and elsewhere on the net. 

It will, however, when completed, have more than the average number of "towns." Current ones: *Kennecott*, *McCarthy *and *Chitina*--all of them historic; in development: *Cicely-*-a mythical Alaskan town from an old television series; to be developed: *Dawson*, *Klondike City* and *Grand Forks*--representative segments of real places that once existed (Dawson has survived partly intact, the others are gone), and possibly *Forty-mile-*-another historic gold rush town. *No empire here*, just a growing accumulation of small model railroad destinations.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

My prairie model that I picked up through Ebay to stand in for the KMR #4 locomotive prototype arrived today just as I was heading out the door to drive off to Anchorage for the weekend, from where I am now writing. I must say that I was prepared to be disappointed. This is an off-brand. I did take the time to open up the box and inspect the contents--just to ensure it had arrived intact. 

I was not disappointed. Whether or not it _works well_ (won't be testing it for awhile) this is a great locomotive model to be used for KMR #4.  I may never power it anyway, but after a quick look at it, my first inclination is to want to put the old battery power to it and give it a go. It looks GREAT!







The style of construction is strongly reminiscent of Bachmann, but this model somehow looks better. Furthermore, I was afraid the scale would be too small, but this appears to be a true 1:20.3, which is what I wanted for this project. Photos will follow when I return to CC. 

Meanwhile, all I can leave you with is this drawing of the real McCoy.  But, for my purposes, I already believe that my decision to purchase this 2-6-2 prairie was a good one and that the price was right.


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## ByrdC130 (Jan 4, 2008)

Haven't been following the boards closely as of late, but what a thrill this one has been to catch up on. 

At the first of this thread the mention of the Trans Alaskan-Siberian-Paris RR, can you immagine how if that project had been built, history could have been so dramatically different? Think of the economic impact it would of had on Russia and the changes in politics it could of had. At that time it would of shrunken the world like the internet has done for our times. 

Also, I think I might have to do a road trip to Adair to see if I can get a pic of ole #4 here in Oklahoma. 

Great history lesson and story. Hope there is more to come.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ByrdC130 on 01/26/2008 1:51 PM
Haven't been following the boards closely as of late, but what a thrill this one has been to catch up on. 

Great history lesson and story. Hope there is more to come.
There will be. I don't have access to all that right now, but will be back on it shortly.

--Ron in Alaska


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ByrdC130 on 01/26/2008 1:51 PM

Also, I think I might have to do a road trip to Adair to see if I can get a pic of ole #4 here in Oklahoma.
I'd really like to see any pictures you take of that very historic locomotive.  It would be great if you had something of a relatively high resolution, too.   

--Ron in CC


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## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm really enjoying your recounting of your experiences. It gives us an inside look at how things were back then. I never realized how things worked on the pipeline, or who all was involved, or where they came from. It is ashame that all local help that was available wasn't used, before bringing others in from outside. I understand that experience for certain jobs was necessary, but past experiences from other like situations have given insight to more understanding companies, that have taken advantage of the good will created by doing just that. Evidently, there are those who could care less. Too bad financial difficulties from such actions didn't eventually bankrupt them.

Now, with all the outsourcing of so much to China and other countries, we may eventually loose the capability to build things for ourselves, if the need ever becomes necessary. Raw material, their sources, etc. may become unavailable at reasonable cost, as well as knowledge being taught as to how best to use them. One can only hope this never shows it's ugly head./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/sad.gif

Please keep the story comig!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 01/28/2008 9:10 AM


I'm really enjoying your recounting of your experiences. It gives us an inside look at how things were back then. I never realized how things worked on the pipeline, or who all was involved, or where they came from. It is ashame that all local help that was available wasn't used, before bringing others in from outside. I understand that experience for certain jobs was necessary, but past experiences from other like situations have given insight to more understanding companies, that have taken advantage of the good will created by doing just that.

Please keep the story coming! 



I just made it back here after a trip into Anchorage only to find a serious freeze-up problem in two of the units, so I've got a job to do. As soon as I get this situation under control (evidently while I was gone it dropped below MINUS FIFTY for awhile) I'll get back on this narrative with images.


Thanks for the comments. Really appreciate it as those are relatively few and far between these days.

--Ron in Alaska


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

In Pursuit of the Ghost Train of Tsedi-na, Part 11: 
One More Time Around: Franklin Bluffs and Pump Station Six

 










_One of the signs marking a northern pipeline construction camp along what is now known as the Dalton Highway. Prospect  is gone, almost without a trace, as are all the other construction-era camps. _ I have already written that the advent of the pipeline was a life-changing experience for me and most everyone else who was involved. It was so massive in its scope that it is impossible to image the Alyeska Pipeline construction not changing anyone who was even remotely involved. 

I can remember at the time that we had the sense that somehow this project would last forever. Funny thing about that. When it was over, it was really over--the economy immediately began going into a tailspin. Suddenly 20,000 people would be out of work and almost all that specialized construction equipment would begin a massive exodus out of the state. 


But in the summer of 1976 many of the early problems had been worked out and construction was humming along smoothly and rapidly. Activity was everywhere and we all loved it. Business had not seen anything like this probably even during the various gold rushes which had marked the early days of the territory.  It was a time of great optimism for all of us.  One could lose a job in one sector and within a day or two pick up another job somewhere else along the pipeline. For me it took a little longer because I did not understand the system, but after a few months of being out of work I was dispatched as a sewage treatment plant operator to Franklin Bluffs.


Of all the construction camps along the line, I was sent back to one I knew quite well. Things were different by then. Local management had nearly completely changed over, and I was now entering the scene in a different capacity.
  
_Franklin Bluffs in the summer with the airstrip in the background: click for larger image. _


I made a lot of money as a treatment plant operator and had a good time with the experience in the process. I stayed there for quite some time and was in the camp when July 4, 1976 rolled around--the 200th anniversary of the birth of our nation. We had quite a celebration in camp. It was probably much like the events I have seen photographed of 4th of July celebrations in the gold rush days when everyone participated. It was great to be a part of it all--something which has become a very historic event as time has moved along. 
  
_A typical two-man room in one of the construction camps. Mine was similar to this one. Click for larger image._ After spending several months at that camp I had enough. I had made it to head operator and enjoyed my position, but winter was approaching and I did not relish the thought of going through another winter that far north. I trained another operator for my position and notified my employer that I was terminating. 

But this was not quite the end of my time in the camps. In a short time I was back in the union hall seeking another dispatch. Funny how life has a way of repeating itself. This time I was dispatched back to Pump Station Six.
  
_Pump Station 6 as it nears completion. Click for larger image._

When I retuned to P.S. 6 the remaining Irish national (not American citizens) laborers who had been there when I was forced out quit departed. It was a different company in  charge and this time things worked out very well. My last few months working on the line would be good ones. I would leave the project with some very positive experiences that would go with me for life.  I stayed for the first part of the winter before leaving the construction scene for good. Were I given the opportunity to do it again as a young man, I certainly would. 

Now I was heading back to Fairbanks where I would start a new life as a small businessman. Eventually that would lead me back to the Copper Valley where I would find my connections to an old mine and its railroad that somehow  I always knew had to exist. I just had no idea how closely I was really associated with something that had occurred generations before. It would still take many years to get there, but it is really true that it was the pipeline that made it possible--in more ways than one. 


Even to this day the pipeline plays a major role in my ever-evolving project which has now become the farthest north garden railroad in North America.


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

I am thoroughly enjoying reading your story.  Nice pictures in the two man room.  Minus 80 degrees is uncomprehensible to this So. Cal boy who can't even deal with 40 above./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif

Tommy
Rio Gracie


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By tmejia on 01/29/2008 8:20 AM
I am thoroughly enjoying reading your story.  Nice pictures in the two man room.  Minus 80 degrees is uncomprehensible to this So. Cal boy who can't even deal with 40 above.

Tommy
Rio Gracie
That last segment completed my experience with the construction days of the pipeline. I wanted to convey the sense of what it was like to live through and be a part of one of those great  Alaskan booms.  They are few and far between. 

We may be seeing one again with the possible coming of the proposed natural gas line. Actually, there are several outstanding proposals of which ONE will be selected. We need another boom up here very soon. Alaska is going back into a downward economic spiral. I am beginning to see the same situation I faced here 25 years ago when Alaska last crashed a few years after the end of that construction project.  

*And. . . thanks for the comment. It is greatly appreciated.* 

--_Ron in CC_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 01/25/2008 11:06 PM

My prairie model that I picked up through Ebay to stand in for the KMR #4 locomotive prototype arrived . . . 







The style of construction is strongly reminiscent of Bachmann, but this model somehow looks better. Furthermore, I was afraid the scale would be too small, but this appears to be a true 1:20.3, which is what I wanted for this project. 

2-6-2 with two of the LGB Porters:


click for larger image

  This Buddy-L  2-6-2 isn't bad for the price, it looks close to the historic prototype, most significantly with the proper wheel arrangement. Also, the size appears to be right for the desired scale. Repainting of the cab and tender will be necessary, along with the appropriate re-lettering to for the Klondike Mines Railway locomotive No. 4.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

A UP Prairie becomes KMR #4
      Close-up views:  This model has the potential to work out well for the desired applcation. 
Click any picture for a larger view.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Those LGB Porters
As I said before, I first saw these in the mid-90s in a long-closed G-scale train store in Tigard, Oregon. It was a really neat-looking locomotive that at the time I could not use.  

Then came along the Phase III project.  Five of these have been identified as having been a part of the Klondike gold rush history. My fifth one just arrived, so here they all are, lined up on my temporary storage shelf above my computer room. 
  I must say that these LGB Porters make a nifty-looking display, do they not?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Bear Creek Porters:

Two of the remaining Yukon Gold Company Porters at Bear Creek Camp:
These were sold off and removed in 1969. 







If you right-click this photo and select "view image" you will see the larger size


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## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

I really like the 2-6-2! Neat looking engine, and with a repaint, it should fill the bill just fine. I know it doesn't have the detail in the cab, but it sure has a lot on the boiler. The compressors (is that right?) on the side look a little brassy, but some black paint should fix that.

The Porters all lined up, look like a switch yard getting ready for a busy day. After painting them for your layout, they will make for a busy looking area, unless you have several sites you intend to place them. Even so, with the compressed towns and mining areas, they will still add a busy look to the place.

BTW, sorry to hear about your troubles caused by the extreme cold while you were gone. Hope you got the repairs done OK.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Four Identical Porters Arrive at Skagway Enroute to the Klondike

This is one of my favorite shots.  I may want to model this. 
    The Detroit Yukon Mining Company had mining concessions on Hunker Creek and Bear Creek. A 36 inch railway was constructed at the mouth of Bear Creek, beginning operations in 1904.   In addition to the four Porters, twenty-four two-ton dump cars were employed.  These were to haul pay dirt down to the Klondike River where the ore could be washed for gold. The  raw ore was loaded by means of two steam shovels which were brought in at the same time. This operation only lasted a season and a half before being supplanted by a large electric-powered dredge system.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 01/29/2008 2:17 PM
I really like the 2-6-2! Neat looking engine, and with a repaint, it should fill the bill just fine. I know it doesn't have the detail in the cab, but it sure has a lot on the boiler. The compressors (is that right?) on the side look a little brassy, but some black paint should fix that.

The Porters all lined up, look like a switch yard getting ready for a busy day. After painting them for your layout, they will make for a busy looking area, unless you have several sites you intend to place them. Even so, with the compressed towns and mining areas, they will still add a busy look to the place. 

I'm pleased you agree. The 2-6-2 was a real find and can be made to fit into this project quite well.  

Those Porters--the four for Bear Creek and the other for Cliff Creek--will definitely add a sense of added activity to the area.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 01/29/2008 2:17 PM

 sorry to hear about your troubles caused by the extreme cold while you were gone. Hope you got the repairs done OK.


I made some surprising progress today--actually got lucky. I now have the water restored to one of the two critical units. That was accomplished by simply turning up the temperature on the buried heat loop to 160 until the cold line broke free--evidently without breaking. Prior to that I was under one of those buildings last night working in a very confined area attempting to thaw a line, but that was not enough to do it. 

Now I can connect up the other system to the operational water line, thus bringing those two units back on line. That will just leave the matter of the frozen sewer line at my place, but that's not nearly as critical as simply getting that water going over there in the two residential units (currently three persons live over there).  Now I get to crawl back under one of those buildings and complete the work that should bring it all back up and running. First I grab my heavy winter gear . . . (it's minus 15 at the moment--as warm as it is going to get).


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Glad to hear that getting things sorted out regarding the water supply and sewer are progressing without too much trouble. Living in Florida and reading about your adventures in working on the outside in minus 15° weather chills me to the bone.

As you and Bob have stated, that 2-6-2 is as far as I can see a spot-on match to the prototype especially after she goes into the shops for the repaint nd lettering. As I remember it you had asked for comments regarding the Buddy-L brand, I have never owned one so I can't speak from firsthand experience, but the impression I've gotten from various postings over the years here on MLS they are not real strong drive unit.

I'll again have to also agree with you and Bob regarding the LGB Porters.

I would like to add my appreciation to that expressed by others, for all the effort you put into including all of us in your design process, and providing the historical perspective of what led things to be that way in real life. Personally, I've always found your postings to be among the best, if not THE very best, to be found here on MLS, and look forward to reading anything you care to post.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 01/29/2008 7:04 PM

As you and Bob have stated, that 2-6-2 is as far as I can see a spot-on match to the prototype especially after she goes into the shops for the repaint nd lettering. As I remember it you had asked for comments regarding the Buddy-L brand, I have never owned one so I can't speak from firsthand experience, but the impression I've gotten from various postings over the years here on MLS they are not real strong drive unit.

I'll again have to also agree with you and Bob regarding the LGB Porters.

I would like to add my appreciation to that expressed by others, for all the effort you put into including all of us in your design process, and providing the historical perspective of what led things to be that way in real life. Personally, I've always found your postings to be among the best, if not THE very best, to be found here on MLS, and look forward to reading anything you care to post.
Thank you, Steve, for the very complimentary feed-back.  I am very pleased on my acquisition, sight-unseen,  of the 2-6-2. Fortunately, even if I power it up with the remote control battery system, the load on it would be relatively light since the KMR consists were never very large--and my Klondike model train consists will reflect that.  So this is one application where that unit should work out well since load on the unit will not be an issue.  

Of course all of that is at least a year off.  I wanted to acquire all the necessary locomotives in advance because of the time lag involved in repainting and lettering and then adding sound and remote battery control.  Except for one piece which is still out there in the great unknown of the ordering system, this has now been accomplished. The rolling stock--two passenger cars, several 30 foot flat cars and box cars and a number of small mining ore cars,  have not yet been selected and probably will not be until about this time next year.  It will take at least that long before I am ready for them except possibly for the two passenger cars. 


I am, of course, particularly pleased with those Porters, which are very fine-looking small locomotives that are apparently near-exact matches for the prototypes--particulary the four that went to Bear Creek.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 01/29/2008 7:04 PM
Glad to hear that getting things sorted out regarding the water supply and sewer are progressing without too much trouble. Living in Florida and reading about your adventures in working on the outside in minus 15° weather chills me to the bone.



Actually, it was biting cold out there today. I had to wear a scarf over my face during part of the outside work.  I was wholly successful in bringing all of the system back on line by the end of the day today and correcting as best as I could the weaknesses that allowed this to occur in the first place. My face still feels burned from the frigid air as I write this,  but that sense is insignificant compared to the enormously satisfying sense one gets after successfully escaping the precipice--and I was close.  

Often just a few hours up here makes all the difference between whether one saves his structures or not.  I was in Anchorage with my 83-year old father at the time this happened. He told me he could not constantly live on the edge as I do--not just battling the elements, but dealing with the great unknowns of a highly unreliable economy.  But he also said he believed I thrive on it. In a way, I guess I do.  He returned to the states on Sunday, I was back the following day and found myself immediately dealing with this emergency situation.  That was the main water service line buried under four feet of ground and mostly inaccessible that was at risk. It had quit flowing at a point unknown--now_ that _was scary. This was in spite of the adjacent heated line that constantly pumps from one end of the 500 foot line to the other to keep the cold water line alive. Although the hot water line was circulating as it was designed, it was not putting out enough heat to combat winds that knocked open one hatch under an already closed unit--allowing in enough frigid wind to send the frost level right down to the main water pipe and stop it from flowing. And when this happened the temps  had dropped into the minus 50 range. 

In any case, all is well once again and I can resume my normal winter activities.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

He returned to the states on Sunday, I was back the following day and found myself immediately dealing with this emergency situation. That was the main water service line buried under four feet of ground and mostly inaccessible that was at risk. It had quit flowing at a point unknown--now that was scary. This was in spite of the adjacent heated line that constantly pumps from one end of the 500 foot line to the other to keep the cold water line alive. Although the hot water line was circulating as it was designed, it was not putting out enough heat to combat winds that knocked open one hatch under an already closed unit--allowing in enough frigid wind to send the frost level right down to the main water pipe and stop it from flowing. And when this happened the temps had dropped into the minus 50 range. 

Ouch! I've put my share of time in crawling around underneath trailers in the dead of winter trying fix leaks and replace plumbing. Know only too well how nasty that can get. At least you didn't burn the plzce down with a space heater trying to thaw it out; seems like we get at least a few of those every winter.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow. I just realized we've returned to the new forum. It's kinda like Dorothy returning home to Kansas.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Well Blackburn...the news were claiming it was better than 70 below up in Tok, which is a dang sight closer to you than to me. Hope it didn't get that cold where you're at. Been in the -10 to -20 range around here...and tomorrow I get to be out in it... 

::sigh::


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 02/07/2008 12:43 AM
Well Blackburn...the news were claiming it was better than 70 below up in Tok, which is a dang sight closer to you than to me. Hope it didn't get that cold where you're at. Been in the -10 to -20 range around here...and tomorrow I get to be out in it... 

::sigh::
In that sane vein, here are a couple of Fairbanks web cam shots I captured  showing the ice fog effect on Wednesday. The first is in the morning when it was about minus 50. 







In this second one you can see some clearing has occurred. This was taken at about 2 PM. I believe the temperature had risen to about minus 35. The orientation is south. 







Fortunately we never get as cold as Tok. It was minus 51 here this morning and never rose above minus 34. 
Regrettably, there is no end in sight for the current cold spell.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Very odd readings here that make no sense. Since last night the official readings at Gulkana airfield have been in the minus 15 to minus 10 range. That is only 15 miles away. I strongly suspect something is very wrong with the sensor. The reading here this morning is the coldest I have seen it for this location in about ten years at minus 55. Plenty of ice fog out there, too.  At Tok--about 125 miles away as the crow flies-- the reading is now an official minus 71--coldest I have seen for a state reading so far.  Down in the pass between us and Valdez apparently the winds are blasting through with high winds. The snow on the ground is heavy through  there and I would expect massive drifting and white-outs. Thus travel in the area is now extremely dangerous.  The main thrust of our cold air blast has not reached you down there, and believe me, there are some of you that won't like it when it arrives at your doorstep.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The cost of operating here in Alaska has been drastically increased with the very high cost of heating oil combined with what is turning into a cold winter of the type I have not seen since the 1980s. Additionally, the cost of power is tied to the cost of fuel oil and has risen dramatically to 27 cents per KWH.

I am now looking at slowing down the pace of model railroad development here. Most of what will be affected will probably fall in the Phase III portion since Phase II is largely completed. Even that will probably require an additional year to complete due to rising costs of everything well beyond what I had anticipated.

Right now I am dropping in close to $3,000.00 a month into fuel and another nearly $1000.00 into power with almost no off-setting business to compensate, nor any anticipated until well into April.  Overall, this represents nearly double the cost I was facing just two years ago. Even then I was struggling to get through a winter. 

I am wondering what the upcoming tourist season will bring. That will be the final determiner in how well this ongoing project proceeds.  Last season the month of May was surprisingly good, however, I keep hearing discouraging economic forecasts that are bound to scare off some people who might otherwise be considering traveling to Alaska.  At least we are  far less expensive to visit than Europe or even Canada, so we will see.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Bachmann Mogul
  I had ordered this unit to be the stand-in for KMR #1. This is a 2-6-0 nominally 1:20.3.  But when I set it next to my Accucraft K-27 it just looked too small. When, on the other hand, I placed one of those Spectrum 4-6-0 units next to the K-27, that loco seemed to fit in much better.   

Why did not someone point this out to me that there was this significant difference in appearance of relative size between these two units? 
In any case, after due consideration, I decided not to use the Bachmann 2-6-0 for its original intended purpose.








_The original KMR #! sitting in Minto Park, Dawson City, the Yukon Territory_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is an old spectrum I pulled out, very similar in style to the Bachman 2-6-0, but somewhat larger, next to the K-27
  So this one will now be dusted off and refitted to become KMR #1


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The ten-wheeler behind the prairie:
  The prairie is also sitting beside another newer style ten-wheeler.  They match up fairly well. The Bachmann 2-6-0 did not.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Bachmann 2-6-0 with a 1:29 heavyweight: 
  In my opinion, this engine looks better with the heavyweight than it does next to the K-27. (click).  Probably the 2-6-0 will remain out of service for quite some time until I determine an appropriate use for it. Once I have determined that, it has to be converted to remote control battery power. So, this one becomes just a shelf model for now.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

And so comes the other question? Will this one fit in appearance-wise? 







I have more than one of these on order, but based on my observations with regard to the 2-6-0 by the same manufacturer and allegedly the same scale, I have to wonder if it really will fit in well. In this case I have no suitable candidate for replacement, so the Bachmann 2-8-0, which has not arrived will, hopefully, not look out of place next to the other three engines.  
  _KMR #2, the most used of the KMR engines, was a small 2-8-0. (click)_


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Right now I am dropping in close to $3,000.00 a month into fuel and another nearly $1000.00 into power with almost no off-setting business to compensate, nor any anticipated until well into April. Overall, this represents nearly double the cost I was facing just two years ago. Even then I was struggling to get through a winter. 


Might be high time to look into the alternative energy thing - windmills and solar cells and the like. I've also noticed that those swirly light bulb thingies save a bundle on the electric bill. 


I am wondering what the upcoming tourist season will bring. That will be the final determiner in how well this ongoing project proceeds. Last season the month of May was surprisingly good, however, I keep hearing discouraging economic forecasts that are bound to scare off some people who might otherwise be considering traveling to Alaska. At least we are far less expensive to visit than Europe or even Canada, so we will see. 


You did catch the news about how TransCanada intends to start building the natural gas pipeline this spring if given the go-ahead, right? That happens, it is not beyond the realm of possibility a tiny slice of business might end up going your way as a result.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 02/07/2008 11:49 PM

You did catch the news about how TransCanada intends to start building the natural gas pipeline this spring if given the go-ahead, right? That happens, it is not beyond the realm of possibility a tiny slice of business might end up going your way as a result.

Actually, I didn't, but I have been counting on it. 







The red line indicates the proposed Transcanada gasline from Prudhoe Bay.  This parallels the proposed alcan extension rail line.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Locating the KMR
Extensive surveys, both from the air and on the ground, have been conducted to determine the exact location of the historic KMR roadbed in recent years. Much of it has been obliterated by dredging and hydraulic mining activities.  This contour map shows the RR stops all the way to the end, about 30 miles up the Bonanza Creek to a point near the top of the foothills near Solomon Dome. 
  image can be clicked to a larger size


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Overviews: Dawson to Sulpher Springs
  These two Google Earth overviews give you a good idea of the nature of the country and the layout of the KMR.  I have placed pins  at Dawson, Grand Forks and Sulpher Springs--the end of the line--for reference.  Moosehide, which shows up in the lower Google Earth map, is a traditional Native fishing village, now used only seasonally. Click either for a larger view.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dredge 4 to Bonanza Dam:
  This is our immediate area of interest, from Dredge 4 to the old Bonanza Creek dam--the area centering on Grand Forks.  (Click).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR: Mosquito Creek to Flannery
  This map includes the point where the KMR crossed Bonanza Creek north of Grand Forks on the way to that town. I believe that is the same bridge I used to access that area years ago.  (Click).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Goldfields of Bonanza Creek
  Walking or driving through the same area today, it is difficult to imagine just how busy it was in the Bonanza and Eldorado Creek areas. It was this activity on which investors of the KMR hoped to profit with their narrow gauge railroad.  Click for a full view. 

In fact a large part of the problem faced by the proposed railroad was finding a workable right-of-way through all of these claims. This caused a lot of delays until the railroad was obsolete before it was even built.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Each of those numbers: 25, 37, 67, represents a claim number moving away from  the discovery claim "0" which was just downstream from Gold Hill and Grand Forks.  It is only about 11 miles from the start of the KMR to Grand Forks, our destination.  (click).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR Scene on the Bonanza: 
  If you look closely at this picture--or click to the larger size-- you will see where two structures have been flooded by the dredge pond.  Could this have been the fate of Grand Forks? 

This photo was taken in 1912--a year before the KMR line was abandoned. The structures were the Magnet Roadhouse, 25 below on Bonanza Creek.  A KMR freight train has left cordwood just above the boiler house that was used to generate steam for thawing the permafrost in advance of the dredge.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Here you see on this google image the very last large intact dredge that I could find in the Klondike. Another one on Hunker Creek was the victim of arson a few years ago. At one time there were about a half-dozen of these plying these creeks.   The yellow pin marks the spot where the dredge was buried in the muck until it was rescued and moved across the Bonanza road for restoration. 

It was, of course, the dredges, which destroyed the town of Grand Forks.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

I guess you can say it was inevitable what would happen. After all, Grand Forks was just upstream from the discovery claim and just across Bonanza Creek from Gold Hill--one of the most active mining areas in the Klondike.   Above: Yukon Gold Company dredge number 8 under construction, August, 1911. On the hillside on the left is the KMR rail grade. You can see where all the cordwood has been dumped off the side of the grade. When this picture was taken, Grand Forks was already dying. Some of it had been wiped out by fires while business had been diminished as the population moved on with the onslaught of the mechanization of the gold mining business. 

Below: View of Gold Hill from just above Grand Forks.  I have pieced two images together so you can get a better perspective of the site.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Grand Forks site


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Layout of the town of Grand Forks: 
  Much like the well-recorded history of Kennecott, I have been provided with a literal treasure of information on the KMR.  As you can see,  a lot of details about the historic railroad layout are available, making model-building much easier than for some of the other historic lines.  For instance, above I have a complete map of the town. While I don't know the exact nature of many of  the buildings, I do have the town streets and railroad right-of-way.  This map will be carefully studied in comparison to existing photos to see what possibilities exist for a historic model. 

Below you see the Grand Forks to Solomon Dome map--the end of the line being at Sulpher Springs. Extensive aerial and ground studies have been done for this area, so have an excellent record of the nature of this ground as well.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Trestles beyond Grand Forks
  From looking at the map beyond Grand Forks, there had to be numerous curved trestles such as this one. 
There wasn't much else up there--just small mining camps which diminshed in size as one headed further away from Grand Forks.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Grand Forks
  Every photo I view of the town looks different. The buildings are not the same and the angles are confusing. This will take some study to come up with a workable model.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Early View of Grand Forks, probably circa 1901-03:
  Although I can find photos of some of the individual structures on one side, it looks like this one will end up being more generic than real. I will have to do a lot of educated guessing. And, of course, I am only going to build some representative structures when that time finally comes. 

Looking at this photo, and knowing how cold it gets in that area, this definitely does not look like an inviting place in which to spend the winter.  I would say at the very least "harsh" would fill the bill. It would hav ebeen a constant battle just to stay warm. You will note that the hills are bare of trees in most of these photos. There was a good reason for that.  This does not appear to be a community of many amenities. 

Probably not many women lived here--ever.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Then: Grand Forks at its most-developed: 
KMR along the ridge, probably about 1912
  A complete frontier town with three churches facing each other


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Now: Site of Grand Forks
 







"Old Viewpoint" is from the standpoint of the historic photo in the previous post. 
"Recent Viewpoint" is my best guess of where the above picture was shot.
  One of two remaining cabins as of 1980--probably gone too by now.
Sad, isn't it?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Downtown Grand Forks
  photo can be enlarged. See that cabin up the hill? That looks like it could be the abandoned one shown in the previous frame. The location and elevation is about right.  The cabin was just down a steep hill from the railroad grade.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Big Happenings at Grand Forks:
Dominion Day


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Grand Forks in its declining days: 







The signs of decay are obvious. Grand Forks outlived the Klondike Mines Railway by about a decade only because it took that long before the dredges finally overtook whatever remained of that town.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Kinsey & Kinsey Photo Studio:







Most of the preceeding photos originated out of this studio which was located behind Walter Woodburn's Drug Store,  which shows up as a large building in several of the photos.  These wonderful historic photos were discovered by accident seven decades after this photo was taken.  They were all glass plate negatives--too heavy for the photographersm Clark and Clarence--who finally abandoned Grand Forks during its last declining days--to haul back to Snoqualmie, Washington.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Addenda to a Previous Photo

I had not realized at the time when I first showed the picture below of Magnet Roadhouse
near 25 Below Claim that this was the original roadhouse of Belinda Mulrooney--one of the most 
famous women of the Klondike. This, as it turns out, was Belinda's first business in the gold
region. She then set up a major hotel in what was then the middle of nowhere. She named that 
hotel the "Grand Forks."  It was her hotel which provided the magnet that resulted in the creation 
of the town of Grand Forks. She later sold out and built a new, even more luxurious hotel
in Dawson City.  

It's kind of sad to look at this 1912 picture and realize that this was the end for Belinda's first
operation. By then she had long since left Grand Forks and the town itself was already in its
early death-throes. 

Here we see that process  happening with her old roadhouse--one of the very first in the Klondike--
as it is being inundated by the rising waters of a dredge pond. 
  George Carmack's Discovery Claim would be the one from which the other claims were numbered
in both directions. 
Going in the other direction, Grand Forks began at Six Above Claim.


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## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

Again...some GREAT photos!

I was surprised there were 3 churches, since there didn't seem to be too many of the ladies around, and as rough a life as there was. The town was larger than I would have supposed for the area, and it sure is a shame all that is gone now. It just doesn't seem that so much could just disappear!

They must have pretty well stripped all the trees for lumber to build the town and R/R, along with fire wood to keep warm. 

Those dredges sure did a number on everything, but I guess it was about the only way to get to the gold out on a large scale, in those days. It would probably be the same thing these days, though maybe they would be required to put things back after tearing everything up./DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/crying.gif

Keep up the god work! It is REALLY interesting!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 02/16/2008 6:57 AM
Again...some GREAT photos!

I was surprised there were 3 churches, since there didn't seem to be too many of the ladies around, and as rough a life as there was. The town was larger than I would have supposed for the area, and it sure is a shame all that is gone now. It just doesn't seem that so much could just disappear!



Clearly any model of Grand Forks should include the three churches that seem to be a distinctive mark of the town. Those would be the anchor points, followed by a select few of the large buildings in the downtown core and a few cabins along the hillside, plus the creek itself.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 02/16/2008 6:57 AM
Again...some GREAT photos!

I was surprised there were 3 churches, since there didn't seem to be too many of the ladies around. . .


You have raised an interesting point. Despite the very harsh climate conditions which existed on Bonanza Creek, along with the relative isolation and lack of ammenities, it seems highly unlikely that these churches would have existed without a significant female presence.  







Working a claim in front of Grand Forks. The woman was probably married to the claim owner.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 02/16/2008 6:57 AM
 The town was larger than I would have supposed for the area, and it sure is a shame all that is gone now. It just doesn't seem that so much could just disappear!


The original challenge for me that brought about the creation of my Kennecott model and the ultimate existence of a large-scale historic model railroad was reconstructing significant but missing historic structures. It was obvious in looking at the old photos of Chitina, Strelna, McCarthy and Kennecott that a great deal of history had already been lost.

Something about bringing back the past really intrigues me. Thus, I have a new project laid out for the years ahead:  the Klondike Mines Railway centering on Grand Forks itself, but also including Klondike City on the Yukon River (also wholly gone) and a few significant waterfront aspects of Dawson City (one of the best preserved frontier towns in North America. 

_The Staff House and Superintendent's Residence at Kennecott in 1966: Destroyed by latter-day mining activities in 1968.  I re-created these in my Kennecott model even before building the Kennecott mill. _


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## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Greetings Ron,

I have re-read this thread.  The sheer volume of detailed information and very intersting pics make this an incrredible read.

The historic scenes and locomotives are truly a wonderful piece of research on your part.  Many thanks for posting and whilst, from my side of the Atlantic it has been an "eye opener", I notice that many Stateside folks have learned a lot  from it.

I have sent you a message by the way.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Great Western on 02/17/2008 2:28 PM
Greetings Ron,

I have re-read this thread.  The sheer volume of detailed information and very intersting pics make this an incrredible read.

The historic scenes and locomotives are truly a wonderful piece of research on your part.  Many thanks for posting and whilst, from my side of the Atlantic it has been an "eye opener", I notice that many Stateside folks have learned a lot  from it.
I have concluded my segment on Grand Forks, however,   there are yet a few remaining details to this thread before I close it out. These include maps and photos relating to  the actual KMR layouts at Klondike City, Dawson City, and the turn-around at Sulphur Springs.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I'm amazed at the volume of the landscape there. That's an incredible place, but I think I'll stay in Illinois. Might visit someday.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The remaining part of the KMR route, Grand Forks to Sulphur Springs:  
  The KMR was already gaining elevation as it reached Grand Forks. This rise continued for the remainder of the line all the way to Sulphur Springs, nearly reaching the summit at Solomon Dome.  As you can see from the map, the railroad crosses a number of creeks requiring trestle construction. The remaining stops are Flannery, Soda and Sulpher Spings--no towns,no communities. 

The crossings for Gauvin, Homestake and McKay gulches were all 400 foot trestles. The tallest was Homestake at 65 feet.   This presents an interesting challenge for my greatly-compressed proposed model.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Crossing Homestake Gulch
  (click)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Flannery Station, KMR mile 19.75
  Not much at Flannery. No pictures of any structures.  I am guessing that a converted box car served as the depot. However, most significant in the area is the dam you see on Bonanza Creek.  I have seen the remains of it and it must have been impressive when it was still in place. 
The Bonanza dam was of earth construction, apparently  with timber reinforcement.  It was several stories high,  blocking a relatively narrow point. This will very likely be a feature on my proposed model.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This is one of two remnants of boxcars along the KMR route. The location of this one is unidentified, but it is described as being located on upper Bonanza Creek. If you look at the map above, Flannery is the point where the rail turns away from the creek--right at the dam. Almost certainly, this boxcar remnant, which does not include the lower part, is at what once was Flannery--a true whistle-stop.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

My Bachmann 1:20.3 2-8-0 arrived. It was one of two identical units I picked up at Ship-to-Alaska yesterday in Anchorage. I will show photo comparisons if it with the other engines I have selected for the KMR model shortly.







Having unpacked one of them, I am suitably impressed with the relative size of this one. I will make comments in the upcoming post.


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## sschaer (Jan 2, 2008)

there are two dredges i'm aware of : 


as far as i remember this one is between chicken and dawson : 









this one you already posted. its close to grand forks : 


















there are a few more pics on my website in the holidays section under 'canada 2000'


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ah yes, the Jack Wade dredge somewhere east of Chicken and Dredge No. 4 downstream from the Grand Forks site on Bonanza Creek. Excellent photos. Thanks for showing them.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Took a peek at the KMR route through the Flannery area, noting the contour lines and taking a 'best guess' at the rail distance traveled. If I'm reading that right, it looks like it went up something on the order of 600-700 feet in something like three to four miles...which works out to a grade of well over 3%, possibly over 4%. Yikes! 

Grade like that, they probably didn't even need the locomotives for the trip down to Dawson; just give the cars a shove and they'd have coasted all the way there...


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 02/20/2008 1:18 AM
Took a peek at the KMR route through the Flannery area, noting the contour lines and taking a 'best guess' at the rail distance traveled. If I'm reading that right, it looks like it went up something on the order of 600-700 feet in something like three to four miles...which works out to a grade of well over 3%, possibly over 4%. Yikes! 

Grade like that, they probably didn't even need the locomotives for the trip down to Dawson; just give the cars a shove and they'd have coasted all the way there...

In almost all the photos the consists were very short. On the return trip the freight cars would have been empty since this was not a mining railroad per se, it simply supplied firewood and some parts and supplies to a variety of mostly-small mining camps. Passenger service ended entirely after the first few years. This small rail route was clearly ideal for narrow gauge. 







Aerial showing the upper part of the KMR


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

*The KMR lineup: *
  Now that the Bachmann 2-8-0 has finally arrived, I have a complete lineup of the four engines which will serve as the locomotive fleet for the historic KMR.  No. 1 is the Bachmann 4-6-0, which most resembles in size and wheel arrangement the original KMR 2-6-0 built by Brooks in 1881.  KMR 2, the Bachmann 2-8-0 resembles historic KMR 2, an 1885 Baldwin, except that the headlight arrangement  needs to be redone.  HIstoric KMR 3 was an 1899 Baldwin Vauclain Compound, which will be represented by an Accucraft K-27.  And KMR 4, a prairie built by Baldwin in 1912, will be represented by the New Bright 2-6-2.

Of these, only engines 2 and 3 will be operational. The others will simply be repainted, relettered, and set in an appropriate place on the KMR  model.  The Accucraft is already converted to remote battery operation, which is required on the Phase III model. The Bachmann 2-8-0 will need to be similarly converted before it is placed on the model. 

However, an operational Phase III model is at least two years off and probably more. Thus, these four units will be sitting in storage for some time before they are needed. 

(Click photo for larger image)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Fitting In Size-wise: The Bachmann does it ! 
  The issue has always been finding the suitable locomotives that are not completely overwhelmed by appearing next to the massive K-27.  Even in the historic prototype it was noted that KMR 3 was so large that it was almost too large for operation on that line. KMR 2 was the most-used engine, showing up in almost all the historic photos. KMR 1 was used mostly only during construction and in the very early days until KMR 2, the 2-8-0 arrived. KMR 4 was used briefly at the end of the operation, but only shows up in one historic photo. 

(click)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR 2 and 3 Side-by-side: 
  These are the two which will be carrying the load on the upcoming Phase III model. KMR 3 also has the snow plow attached, which was needed during the years when KMR operated in the winter. They had no rotary snow plow so one of the engines had to have a snow plow attached.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Comparison Shots: the K-27 and the 2-8-0 narrow gauge:
    One of the impressive features of the Bachmann 2-8-0 outside frame engine is the large tender, which compares favorably side-by-side with the Accucraft K-27.  Also, the cab size is very similar, which is a big plus for me.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Profile Comparison, 2-8-0 and the K-27:
  Even with the obvious size difference, the scale works, since both have similar cabs and tenders size-wise. 
Here you see the 2-8-0 directly lined up with the K-27. Only the top of the tender plus the front end of the K-27 and one large dome are obvious.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Black & White Comparison: Engines 1 & 4: 
  These two will sit on the sidelines. No. 50 will be KMR 1, the oldest of the four engines while the newest and least-used is on the right as KMR 4. Both will see some re-lettering and painting but will only serve as static displays, at least initially.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR Contour Map 1 of 3: 
  Speaking of the KMR rise in elevation :    

These maps are instructive in revealing the nature of the country through which the KMR travelled. This is the first segment from Dawson and Klondike City to Mosquito Gulch.  It was used as part of a special project a few years ago to _specifically_ locate the historic KMR line, which is shown in red. 

Another interesting feature in this first map is all the tailings on the south side of the Klondike River near the confluence with Bonanza Creek.  As you can see that tailings take up an enormous area. 

(Click for larger size)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR Contour Map 2 of 3:
Mosquite Fork to Flannery   This is the segment which includes all the big trestles. Look at the larger map (click this one) to see the obvious points where those trestles would have been placed. This segment represents a substantial rise in elevation from Grand Forks to the east in the direction of Flannery and Sulphur Springs. 

Near the top of this map was the Bonanza dam (just below a confluence point).

Also, the map shows the actual location of the KMR bridge crossing the Bonanza Creek to reach the east side. I was wrong on the location of that bridge, which I assumed was that of the existing road crossing to the south (right). Regrettably, I have no photograph of that crossing, but it would not have amounted to much.

Most likely, it was a narrow steel bridge of the type used at the Bear Creek crossing in the direction of Dawson City (to the left, which is north).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR Contour Map 3 of 3:
Flannery to Sulphur Springs   From Flannery to the end of the line at Sulphur Springs, the KMR rail bed largely follows very close to the ridge line without actually quite getting to the summit.  This part of the rail bed is still visible from points on the road. There are no special features in this segment except for one siding at Soda and the wye at Sulphur where a locomotive maintenance barn once stood along with a depot structure of unknown type.

There was nothing to speak of at Sulphur Springs. It was simply a drop-off point and the turn-around--no community exised at or near Sulphur--just small mining camps in the area.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sulphur to Dawson: The Terrain
  You can also see Bear Creek, the location of the four porters used by the Detroit-Yukon Gold Company for one year only.
(click for larger image)

That's the entire line. Although I have a few remaining items to show, you get the idea. The KMR has to be the ultimate narrow gauge as a prototype to model:  It involves trestles, wyes, several distinct engines, three towns, whistle stops, mining camps, flat cars, box cars and even two passenger cars--a day coach and a combine. It has just about everything, especially when combined with the adjacent Bear Creek rail line which had those four porters and a line of small mining cars and a couple of shovels. All it seems to lack that I can see is a turntable and a true roundhouse and a rotary snow plow. 


Great project, is it not? Okay. Enough of that. Back to the remaining features.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The KMR line near Sulphur: 







Above: The lower line is the RR ROW. The upper one is the Bonanza Creek Road to Solomon Dome.
Below: From the road you can just make out part of the old RR ROW.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Near the Summit: 
  This is a rather neat photo taken near the top somewhere west of Sulphur Springs: KMR #2 with a box car and a coach in a snow drifting area.  (click).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Remains of a box car as a station house (?) at Soda:














This one is still in good shape. There were probably others besides this one and the one I believe was located at Flannery of this type because all the original box cars used by the KMR were eventually converted to flat cars, making these ~30 foot bodies available for use on the railroad or elsewhere.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The KMR freight car fleet: all boxcars and flatcars become all flatcars and no box cars: 
  The boxcar at Soda was converted in 1907. It sat next to an 8-car siding, which tells you the likely maximum length of the KMR consists. By 1913 there were 23 flat cars and no box cars in the inventory. These were left parked on Klondike Island near what once was Klondike City until the White Pass repurchased them for the hardware, removing the trucks and other metal pieces in 1942.

(click)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

End of the Road: Sulphur Springs
  Here it is: the configuration for Sulphur Springs, which will be included much as you see it in the final model layout.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Sulphur Springs terminal area: showing the brushy RR cut and the old ridge road take-off







This map version shows the location of the engine house and a more specific track arrangement based on data collected in the late 90s.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

One Possible Layout for the KMR Line: 
  This map shows the likely elements I will include in the Phase III model. Construction will start as early as spring of 2009.  This model requires real running water, three steel bridges, at least one curved wooden trestle, the Bonanza Creek dam, four wyes, including the one to Bear Creek, and elements of the towns of Grand Forks, Klondike City and Dawson City, plus structural features for Flannery, Soda and Sulphur Springs.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

This concludes our survey of the upper part of the KMR
  I still have a few remaining elements to explore at Dawson, Klondike City and the Old Inn wye.  
Another picture of Homestake Gulch trestle. (click)


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## sschaer (Jan 2, 2008)

i wish i had the time to go to dawson and hike around in that area.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sschaer on 02/20/2008 11:41 PM
i wish i had the time to go to dawson and hike around in that area.
I wish I could too. Not going to happen anytime in the foreseeable future. There are several things that have come up in this thread that require further study--and a lot more photos.  Maybe in 2009 . . .


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## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

That's a VERY ambitious project Ron, but you sure have it nailed down well. I know it will be tough to get the water features in and maintain them, as they will have to be drained a large part of the year, as well as watch for the freezing times to begin the process. It sure will look neat when it is all finished. Maybe I can rob a bank, then come up and see all of it when you are through!

Thanks for the new pictures and maps explaining how it all worked. It sure helps to have all that, to understand the difficulties of those early times and what the people had to do and endure. I know times were hard and money scarce, but I don't think I would have had the strength to handle that type of environment. I really enjoy the feature of being able to enlarge the pictures and see more detail!


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 02/21/2008 10:14 AM
That's a VERY ambitious project Ron, but you sure have it nailed down well. I know it will be tough to get the water features in and maintain them, as they will have to be drained a large part of the year, as well as watch for the freezing times to begin the process. It sure will look neat when it is all finished. 

It is also a long term project anticipated to take several years to work out. The structures alone make this a large one, although all I need are a few key pieces in each location to get started.  Then there is the matter of adding hills, cutting out the river and stream beds and determining suitable platforms on which to place the three towns.

There is also the matter of the railbed.  I may elevate the entire bed with all its track features, then build up around it so none of it is really on the ground. Either that or I am probably looking at pouring a lot of concrete--or a combination of both,. 

I intend to build water features that will only require minimal draining down, if that. They will be allowed to freeze in place  the same as any standing body of natural water here. Only the pumps should have to be removed. That will require its own electrical circuit--maybe more than one circuit for the waterfall pumps that will be required.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 02/21/2008 10:14 AM
That's a VERY ambitious project Ron . . . It sure will look neat when it is all finished. Maybe I can rob a bank, then come up and see all of it when you are through!


Like my other model towns--fictional Cicely which is patterned after Roslyn, Washington, historic Kennecott, McCarthy and Chitina--I have to try to achieve an effect with this model that somehow makes it instantly recognizable to the knowledgeable. Thus certain features HAVE to be in place, certain select structures HAVE to be recreated, and the arrangement of all of it has to be somehow familiar. At the same time the setup has to be practical--that is, easy to service and maintain.

This will be a very challenging model to bring about since it is intended to represent something that once was with some very distinctive terrain features in terms of hills and waterways. This will not be simply a matter of creating some nice bridges and trestles--although I have a few of those that are required.    
At least I have nailed down the engines, as you can see from some of the previous posts, as best as I can. They are sitting here awaiting whatever detailing is required. 

When this one is done, you will definitely want to show up and see it in operation. It will be a historically-based work of art.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Now that I have the engines (but not much of the other rolling stock yet), I will be focusing on the  historic buildings--selecting which ones to duplicate with whatever photos are available--and then drawing them up. These will be built in a more robust style than the previous ones that now exist in the Kennecott and the Cicely models. 

The Phase III buildings will be designed to be outdoors, to sit in the ice and snow in the winter and come out of it in the spring. I have some ideas on how to accomplish this and we will see if it works. If not, then the entire works will have to be re-designed to include canopies over the town areas. I hope to avoid that because the presence of those canopies would likely ruin or at least take away from the overall effect. 







_detail from one of the Grand Forks panoramas--the main street_


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dawson City after the Klondike Gold Rush: 
  Dawson City will be particularly difficult to represent because it is a well-known historic tourist  destination. I will only be  choosing a few structures to represent this location--mostly along the waterfront where the rail line ran.  It was a relatively large town--once the largest north of Seatlle.  But it is not the one I want to emphasize. 
However, we will now take this opportunity to look at it a little more closely. (click).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR layout for Dawson, including the proposed wye: 
  For whatever reasons, the wye was never built in Dawson, but it will be included in the model. Click onto the map above, which will bring you to a separate window (as is always the case with my posts). Then go to the next post for the identification of the features.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The above map shows these *early features which are now gone*:

1)  The KMR terminal yard and wye (only planned, not built)
2)  The proposed KMR terminal. This was used for timber and cordwood storage that was then loaded directly onto the flatcars at this site.
      Sidings were contemplated but never built. I may go ahead with a flat car loading siding here.  This area was subject to seasonal flooding.
3) KMR Dawson City Station / Boyle's Wharf / Seattle-Yukon Transportation Company Wharf
4) KMR line change--here a spur was run through the White Pass wwarehouse onto the White Pass dock, which became the north end
    of the KMR line. 
5) All the track north of this point was removed in 1913 (after the KMR line was abandoned)
6) WP & Yukon Route wharf and warehouse
7) wharves and warehouses. These will be at least partly represented on the final model along  with the WP & Y warehouse & dock.
8) Ferry Tower (see picture in next post). This came down in 1945.
9) Ferry landing.  This has since been moved to the far north end of town.
10) old slough--now filled in.

*The rest of these are extant:*
11) Yukon Saw Mill (restored)
12) Steamer Keno (sitting in place restored)
13) Canadian Bank of Commerce
14) Tourist Information Center. I believe this was the old Alaska Commercial Company log structure
15) Government Reserve--this includes the commissioner's residence and other structures
16) Dawson City Museum--location of the three KMR engines plus one DYMCo Porter. It was the original 
     Yukon Territory administration building.







_South end of the administration building, now the museum, with KMR #1 _


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Detail Showing part of Dawson with Klondike City in background: 
  Showing approximate location of KMR railroad, the crossing tower and relative size of Klondike City to part of
Dawson.  Most of the other KMR railroad yard is in the box.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sschaer on 02/19/2008 11:22 PM
there are two dredges i'm aware of : 
as far as i remember this one is between chicken and dawson : 









I haven't been up this way in some time. According to the latest Alaska magazine, *this dredge has been demolished* because it was considered hazardous. It now sits in pieces in Tok. Ironically, at one time, some of the residents of Tok were trying to find a way to dismantle this dredge and move it to Tok to set it up on permanent display. The Jack Wade dredge is now a part of history--gone for good.  Too bad it worked out the way it did.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR #4 in Dawson City:
  The only known photo of KMR #4--the prairie--in operation is this one taken in the dock area of Dawson City--the same section I will have to consider duplicating in part for my Phase III model.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Alternative Dawson KMR Locator Map: 







The KMR line ended just short of the modern road leading to the existing ferry terminal. This map reveals that the entire line ran along the waterfront and I will model it accordingly.


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## sschaer (Jan 2, 2008)

"I wish I could too. .... Maybe in 2009 " 


there's a 80% change that i'll be in canada in 2009. bc of course as my parents live there. maybe we'll come up to dawson or even copper center. not sure yet. we'll see.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By sschaer on 02/21/2008 11:33 PM
"I wish I could too. .... Maybe in 2009 " 
there's a 80% change that i'll be in canada in 2009. bc of course as my parents live there. maybe we'll come up to dawson or even copper center. not sure yet. we'll see.
I would sure love to get back there, but right now it is highly unlikely. As I indicated, we will see how things progress. I would have a lot of ground work to do if I ever made it back within that time frame--lots of old railbed to walk and photograph, among other things.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By blackburn49 on 02/20/2008 1:58 AM

The Flannery Water Tower: 







I had missed one item here. Note that on the left is a reference to a water tower at Flannery. With another current thread going on the topic of narrow gauge water towers, it reminded me that I had somehow omitted this feature. But here it is: 







That's the water spout  and weight--all that apparently remain of the water tower at Flannery.  I have to assume that a water tower of some sort existed at Klondike City or perhaps there was a way to load water into the steamers at Dawson, but I have yet to find it.  No pictures have yet emerged of any water towers, including the one at Flannery, but at least _there_ (above picture) is the evidence.


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## ThinkerT (Jan 2, 2008)

Ok...so are you modeling the KMR during just the specific historical period it was actually up and running? Or are you modeling a version of it which somehow outlasted that, perhaps even down to the present day? 

If you are modeling the version that somehow survived past 1913, I have a thought or two. 

First off: Keno and the other big mines in the region. Move up the discovery/work dates on that mine so that the KMR tapped into that after 1913 and turned into a real ore hauler instead of a mere firewood and supply carrier. How it would have worked, at least initially, is the KMR would have hauled the ore to Dawson where it would have been loaded on barges and then towed upstream to Whitehorse. If memory serves, there were also other later day mines in the region besides Keno; possibly they could have been worked in. 

Second thought: the (US) military during WWII. They had a massive construction projects going here in the frozen north; they built the alaska highway and the canol pipeline project. They made extensive use of the WP&Y rr, and if I remember right, even briefly resurrected at least the coastal portion of the Copper River RR. Given this activity, it would not be difficult for them to declare something in the Dawson area as 'strategic', plop a military base there, and keep the place supplied via a spur off the KMR. With the cold war setting in immediately after WWII, it would not be difficult to imagine the perpetuation of such a base afterwards, either.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 02/24/2008 10:50 PM
Ok...so are you modeling the KMR during just the specific historical period it was actually up and running? Or are you modeling a version of it which somehow outlasted that, perhaps even down to the present day? 

If you are modeling the version that somehow survived past 1913, I have a thought or two. 

First off: Keno and the other big mines in the region. Move up the discovery/work dates on that mine so that the KMR tapped into that after 1913 and turned into a real ore hauler instead of a mere firewood and supply carrier. How it would have worked, at least initially, is the KMR would have hauled the ore to Dawson where it would have been loaded on barges and then towed upstream to Whitehorse. If memory serves, there were also other later day mines in the region besides Keno; possibly they could have been worked in. 


Not bad. Not bad at all. I like the way you think.  I have definitely considered the possibility of a KMR extension connecting with the White Pass & Yukon at Whitehorse.  Haven't yet worked out a credible story line for that one yet, but your idea is a good one.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By ThinkerT on 02/24/2008 10:50 PM
If you are modeling the version that somehow survived past 1913 . . .
I had already shown a version of this map earlier in this thread.  The red line is the possible WPRR extension which enables me to make use of my White Pass equipment.  Although the KMR line ended at Sulphur Springs, the WP could easily have hooked up with it there or at some other point down the line where both railroads agreed to meet.







Note: The ligth brown line is the overhead Phase II railroad. KMR is in dark brown and WP is in red. The two blue lines represent the possible inclusion of the Coal Creek and Cliff Creek railroad lines.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dawson & the Yukon River:
  This Google-Earth view also shows the Klondike River and the area where Klondike City once existed. 
That is a flood-plain, of course, and almost nothing but a few pieces of iron now remain where the KMR
terminal existed.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Dawson and Klondike City area: 
  In fact, the Klondike River has deposited a considerable amount of aluvium since the old days of the Klondike gold rush, altering the terrain visibly.  This is the last area we will be examining--Klondike City--the terminal of the KMR.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_Klondike City_: Original Terminal of the _KMR_:
Posted By blackburn49 on 01/15/2008 2:57 AM
KMR coaches 202 & 200
  This is a 1922 photo of the KMR coaches abandoned on a siding on the old Klondike City site. These were purchased for the WPRy in 1899, refurbished and sold to the KMR in 1905. By 1910 they were permanently out of use and left on the rails not far from the Klondike River bridge that crossed over to Dawson City.
  

_Time to return to Klondike City_, site of these two parked coaches, to pick up a few remaining details about the KMR.  We have covered the far end of the line, especially from the area around dredge no. 4 through Grand Forks and beyond to Sulphur Springs, but I want to take a closer look at the main working area for the KMR which extended from Klondike City to Old Inn--the first wye--and just beyond that to the Bear Creek extension where a second deeper wye was constructed. 

As to the pictures above, which appeared earlier in this thread, for a few years these coaches appeared extensively in the photos of the KMR. Much like the CRNW Railway out of Cordova, in the end these were abandoned as unusable because they were now obsolete wooden coaches. The five remaining CRNW coaches were eventually shipped out to be used as stationary work cars for the Alaska Railroad, but the KMR coaches were left in place until a grass fire consumed them in 1942. The steel undercarriages remain in place out there on the river delta to this day.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

When the White Pass Railroad returned to the old yards at Klondike City to retrieve KMR #4 which they  purchased from the successor to the old owners of the KMR in 1942, they had to tear down the old engine house to get to their engine.  What they found was what you see below: Numbers 2 and 4 in front, numbers 1 and 4 (visible on right) in the rear. 

This is the kind of thing we railfans live for, to be able to find an entire stall of historic engines still sitting where they were left many years before.  What a thrill !  Wouldn't_ you _have loved to have been there ! 
  Those are the same historic engines which I will be representing by these models, which, interestingly, are lined up in the same order as those above. It wasn't planned. It just happened that way. I lined these up for this photo which appears in an earlier post so I could display all of them for a discussion on the models. 

Just like the historic image above, KMR 4 is behind KMR 3 and KMR 1 is behind KMR 2. Apparently numbers 2 and 3 were the last ones used before shut down. Number 3, by far the largest one, was orginally picked up because of an antipation that a lot of heavy machinery would be moved and that a large locomotive would be needed. As it turned out, that was never the case. KMR 3 was rarely used because it was some over-sized for the rail line. But KMR 2 was used extensively. KMR 4 was not used too much at all. It is a historic curiosity that it was purchased new at all since by then it was already obvious that the KMR line was doomed. 
  Ron's lineup for the KMR


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR 4 leaves Skagway in 1955:
  KMR 4 became WPRR 4 where it served as a yard engine. It was sold and shipped stateside in 1955 for use in a themepark in Oakwood, Wisconsin.  That never materialized and the old KMR 4 continued with a long series of moves that apparently goes on to this day.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The KMR wharf and engine house _area_ was very compact. It is almost ideal to model as a prototype narrow gauge railroad. Here you see the coal bunker. In the distance are the two passenger coaches, which later would be more typically parked at the passenger depot across the Klondike River at Dawson. 
    This is the double turn-out to the engine house--the same tracks on which the four abandoned engines were parked in a photo seen  in a previous post (back one page).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Present-day Klondike City and KMR bridge: 
  In the manner which is typical of the Yukon, the area where the KMR wharf once existed has silted over and could no longer be used. Many villages down the Yukon on the Alaska side of the border have suffered a similar fate.  The bridge has been gone many decades, having been washed out by one of the numerous floods which plague this area. One of them practically inundated all of Dawson City.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_Klondike City_ looking west: 
  This was the actual town, such as it was, just downriver from the wharf and engine house. Across the Yukon you can see a line of steam boats parked, probably for the winter since the ice is beginning to thicken up where it is entering the Yukon from the Klondike confluence on the right. 

The riverboats often parked in large numbers on the opposite side of the Yukon River from Dawson City to spend the winter.  At least until recent times it was possible to see what was left of one of these parking areas where the remnants of two riverboats still stood.  Unfortuantely I never got pictures of those when I was there nearly thirty years ago.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Looking across the same area today with the aid of Google-Earth:
    Part of the Yukon River on the west bank has silted-in in the same way that it did in front of the old Klondike City area.  In the second photo in the distance, far bank at the slough was the old steamboat graveyard. It used to appear in books on the Yukon, but I imagine not much remains there these days.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The KMR Bridge: The combination coach is headed over to the depot at Dawson City: 
It is 1906-07 and you are seeing jDawson  Electric Light & Power Company
This would be a good scene to model. Power plants are always inviting for modeling. I need to find a few more photo angles to do this one.


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## SlateCreek (Jan 2, 2008)

I would be interested in seeing more photos of that power plant, if you find any, Ron. 

I posted this erroneously in the other thread ... KMR's locomotive that became WP&Y #4 (54) is apparently in some degree of restoration, and for sale, per another list..... somewhre in Oklahoma. http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1708 

Matthew (OV)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Klondike River Bridge, view 2: 
  The trestle crosses over a flood-prone island before reaching the other side of the river (out of view in this photo--see map below).


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

_KMR_ Railroad Map of the _Klondike City_ Area
  The following features shown on this map no longer exist:

1) KMR bridge, 320 feet--_for the model_
2) KMR Klondike Slough bridge (go two photos up), 80 feet--_for the model_
3) KMR engine house & shops--_for the model_
4) KMR coal bunker
5) KMR railroad yard
6) KMR sawmill spur
7) KMR coach storage spur--where the abandoned coaches were left--refer to earlier picture
9) KMR temporary riverside spur
10) (Dawson) filled-in slough
11) Public access bridges
12) Public roads
13) Klondike mill
14) Klondike brewery--_definitely have to model this one_
15) Red light district--original reason for existence of Klondike City

These features still exist:

16) Power house (same location, different building)
17) Minto Park--location of the four Klondike locomotives,including three of the four KMR engines
18) Government Reserve--several interesting structures still sit in this area of which the commissioner's 
residence is probably the most interesting.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By SlateCreek on 02/29/2008 2:05 PM
I would be interested in seeing more photos of that power plant, if you find any, Ron. 

I posted this erroneously in the other thread ... *KMR's locomotive* that became WP&Y *#4 *(54) *is *apparently *in some degree of restoration*, and for sale, per another list..... somewhre in Oklahoma. http://www.steamlocomotive.info/vlocomotive.cfm?Display=1708 

Matthew (OV)
I made a reference to this earlier in this thread.

I will be seeking out my Alaskan collector contact next time I go to Fairbanks (May ?) to see what she has. With any luck, she'll have some images of it in one of her many albums of original photos. Otherwise, I may have another source right in Dawson itself.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR #3 loaded with cordwood coming out of Dawson City: 
  This is the only known photo of KMR #3 in action, pulling what was for the KMR a very large load of cordwood headed for the mines along Bonanza Creek. KMR #3, of course, was the largest of the engines--a Baldwin 2-8-0 Vauclain Compound that turned out to be too large for reliable operation on the KMR.  The bridge in the center is the government bridge, which was demolished shortly after th is 1910 photo was taken. The KMR bridge, of which only a small part can be seen, remained in place for many years and became the public access bridge after the KMR line was abandoned.  Dawson City is in the background.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

A comparison of KMR engines 3 & 4:


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Updated Map Showing Details of the KMR at Klondike City:







  Indistinct image of the KMR locomotive barn. It is enough to allow for a model of this structure.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Finally found it: The location of the water tower at Klondike City:

No, it isn't in this picture, but check out the map  below.  In the picture are KMR 2 & 3. This is interesting because I have already posted a picture of those two engines as they appeared in the same relative positions in 1942 when the WPRR arrived to pick up KMR#4. This picture is dated 1914, which means the KMR was already shut down. Thus, it seems we are looking at the locomotives as they were permanently left in place. 

 







What an appropriate way to end this segment. Having come unexpectedly upon this map, I can now  close out  this  segment on Klondike City--the rail  yards of the  KMR.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR's western wye:  Old Inn at Bonanza Creek







The western wye was located 2 1/2 miles from the Dawson Depot.  There was no turntable at Klondike City and insufficient room for a wye at that location. The wye which was planned for Dawson was never approved by the Dawson City council, so that left Old Inn near the present-day Oglivie Bridge as the western turn-around.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Old Inn Wye: 
  The area between Klondike City and Old Inn was  used for construction of some of the dredges that would later tear up much of the lower KMR line.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Destruction of the Wye at Old Inn in 1913: 







  click for larger image


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Old Inn Wye map: 
  Two wyes, with the second one going to Bear Creek. 
(click)


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Google-Earth View of Old Inn Wye Area:
Is that impression the remnants of the original KMR wye ?


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Two Train Shots from Lower Bonanza Creek 
just south of Old Inn: 
  Above: A small KMR consist returning from Bonanza Creek
Below: Outgoing train loaded with cord wood, same area, passing by a dredge that has begun ripping up the lower Bonanza Creek bed.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

And that was it for the KMR . . . 







I have a few remaining items to cover on the other Klondike narrow gauge lines before wrapping this up, but we are done with the KMR.


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## Guest (Mar 2, 2008)

And that was it for the KMR . . . 


so there is one thing to express: Thank you! 

korm 
.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By kormsen on 03/01/2008 11:42 PM
And that was it for the KMR . . .


so there is one thing to express: Thank you! 

korm 
.








About the KMR Klondike bridge . . .


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Almost forgot the _Klondike River bridge_ feature: 
Can't build the KMR model without it
  So we'll take a quick look at it . . .


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The 1925 flood: 
  This is the flood which doomed the bridge. It is a particularly good shot in showing details of the structure which had not been used by the KMR since 1913.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The bridge was kept in use as a walkway until 1938 when the last of it was taken down.
It is a wonder it was used that long consdering that Klondike City had essentially been abandoned by 1922.
I will be using the latter plan and will have the three steel sections custom-built just as I did for the steel bridge in the Kennecott CRNW Railway model years ago. 

I will be drawing a re-design to compress it somewhat before submitting the plans to a company which specializes in steel work at this scale. 
  The difference in the bridge configuration represents the shifting channels in the Klondike River which is typical and to be expected for the Yukon River drainage.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

A note on the shortlines . . . 
The Coal Creek short line, one of the lines I am considering modeling as a part of the Phase III project,  included the only known Shay to operate in either the Yukon Territory or Alaska. And, in fact, this one operated in both. 
  
  This unit was purchased new to help build the Norther Light, Power & Coal Company's coal-fired power plant a the end of the Coal Creek short line.  This is a picture of it at Juneau, where it was used in construction of the Salmon Creek hydro dam for the Alaska-Gastineau Mine Company.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

The Shay eventually found its way to the Biles-Coleman Lumber Company, OMak, Washington where it was scrapped in 1940: 
  Assuming I model  this line, the Shay will become a prominent part of that layout.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Ghosts of the Klondike Era: 
One cannot enter the old Klondike gold rush grounds that center on Dawson City without sensing a rich, deep past where the old spirits of the days of the narrow gauge short lines when independent miners as well as those working for the large industrial operations such as that owned by the Yukon Gold Company still live.  In some places it is overpowering. 

What was once a magnificent graveyard of artifacts surrounding Dawson is rapidly disappearing, receding into   the wilderness where it will soon be lost forever. The remaining buildings beyond Dawson are mostly gone, as is the rolling stock of the various railroad lines and even the great dredges. Of the latter, only one remains. 

We are fortunate in that all of the locomotives of the late great Klondike Mines Railway are still with us, with three of them on prominent display in Minto Park, Dawson City. Most of the other engines of the time have also survived but have been moved elsewhere.

Yet little remains in the original sites where all the activity took place except for the enormous industrial graveyards that are the dredge tailings that extend a good dozen miles up the Bonanza Creek but are most prominent in the lower Klondike along the area where the KMR once operated.  Although the main rail yard was not chomped up by those enormous dredges, the area was inundated by a series of floods that eventually reduced Klondike City and its bridge that tied it to Dawson to nothing but river silt with some large steel pieces that can occasionally be found sticking out of the mud.

Indeed, without the historic maps and pictures of such wonderful but long-gone places as Grand Forks, or of the consists crossing those trestles around Flannery, or of the short lines that were Coal Creek, Cliff Creek and Bear Creek,  there would be almost nothing left to remind us of the prominence that those short lines once represented in the early history of the Klondike region of the Yukon Territory. Indeed, the short lines themselves as a collective memory would disappear into the mists of time just as the railroads that once existed as entire careers for pioneers of a not-so-distant past have long since gone back to wilderness. 
  _Above: Cliff Creek railroad terminal on the Yukon River_
  _Above: An abandoned Coal Creek locomotive (0-6-0 Porter) on the Yukon where it was left in place along with two other (possibly three other) locomotives. Someone lit a fire in the stack to simulate it in action. _







Above: The late great Klondike Mines Railway on the Homestake Gulch trestle.
And thus it seems only fitting that at some point a large model representing these wonderul old narrow gauge railroads of more than a century ago eventually become a reality in honor of all those who endured the hardships that even to this day represent the far northern lands that are the Yukon Territory and interior Alaska. 

I learned an interesting lesson about a dozen years ago when I had an opportunity to visit an enormous 1:96 model of the villages of the upper Yukon from Holy Cross to Eagle, including the railroad yards of Nenana--once the northern terminal of the Alaska Railroad. It is this: it is the models themselves within the context of a well-produced layout that captures our imagination--even beyond anything those wonderul historic pictures can accomplish. Those models become a curious bridge that presents to us the past in real time, in real colors with real three-dimensional features, and, if it is a railroad model, with real movement.  

If you want a kid to appreciate who we really are in the context of our recent past, show him a real, working railroad model. Even better, show him one that represents a true slice of history. It does not have to be exact. It does not have to be perfect. It will be selective in its presentation by its nature. But that is not important. Just like the stories I tell, it is the _sense_ of it that matters. You'll know it when you see it in the child's eyes. Then you will have given him a gift that he will carry with him all his life. You will have stirred his imagination. Nothing could be greater than that, for it is our imagination that truly empowers us. 

In that sense those of us who choose to model the past--_any past-_-are bringing to life something that might otherwise be lost to others. And in the process we are helping to give our present generations a sense of the wonderment that is us--human beings tranforming our environment in ways that make it possible for all of us to live better,richer, more imaginative  lives gifted with the fascination and even astonishment that is natural to a child but which can only be fully released  by us the older generations.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Oh well, back to _playing_ with the _toy_ trains in the sandbox, I guess. /DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/whistling.gif


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

You do have a cool sandbox


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Torby on 03/04/2008 3:36 PM
You do have a cool sandbox" />
For the _*Phase III project*_, at least three _*dump trucks* *loads*_ will be required and possibly even double that to produce the right effect.  I'll be negotiating for those next year.


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## flatracker (Jan 2, 2008)

That picture of the train on the trestle is cool! The smoke looks a little odd, though there was probably quite a wind to lay it down that low. (I save that one, along with many others.)

Where in the world are you going to put three dump truck loads of sand?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By flatracker on 03/05/2008 5:55 AM


That picture of the train on the trestle is cool! The smoke looks a little odd, though there was probably quite a wind to lay it down that low. (I save that one, along with many others.)

The smoke does look strange, I guess, but it is not uncommon to see it like that here in the interior. Where in the world are you going to put three dump truck loads of sand?/DesktopModules/NTForums/themes/mls/emoticons/shocked.gif



 

Actually, it will be pitrun--which has a mix of rocks and sand such that it will allow me to re-create the hills. It will be needed to build up the hills for the Klondike Mines Railway project.   Area where dump loads of pit run will be required.


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## blackburn49 (Jan 2, 2008)

KMR Phase III:
Areas Requiring Fill:


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