# Tornado A1 Pacific - TV showing of race to the north



## Johnsop (Jan 5, 2008)

The UK TV programme Top Gear is back this Sunday night at 8pm on BBC2 and it promises to be a classic programme with the new Tornado locomotive racing a classic 1950's Jag sports car and a vintage Vincent Motorbike all the way from London to Edinburgh (see http://www.a1steam.com/). Should be a good one

Here is a link to a great picture of the the presenter Jerremy Clarkson who rode on the footplate for the whole journey http://jonathonag.fotopic.net/p57780215.html
http://jonathonag.fotopic.net/p57780214.html http://jonathonag.fotopic.net/p57780215.html 
PHIL


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

I wonder when we'll see it on this side. They just repeated the contest with the German car show here.


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi, 

I do not know if you can get the program/link below but if so the program can be seen on there as well, it will require a 'non dial up line' though I believe.. 

That program is called 'BBC iplayer' - - http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer, where programmers appear after they have been broadcast, say about a day or so, though it may well be less than that. 

You can watch the program without downloading any extra program, it will be as a 'streaming video' - very like YouTube. 

The loco was running at a speed of 75MPH for long periods, and Jeremy Clarkson was firing as well (with the assistance of the experienced fireman of course). He was on/in the can all the way from London to Edinburgh I believe.

The reason he became so filthy is the loco has a sheet over the front of the tender, and there are 25KV electric wires just above the loco, so no one is allowed out of the cab, and onto the tender. The airflow is also disturbed, (by the sheet closing off the front upper part of the tender) so it cannot clear out the coal dust in the air = filthy staff!


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

(Only available in UK)


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Torby, 

Mmm, the much shouted about digital age has (again) fallen over then! 

No universal watchability almost certainly down to the usual reason - lack of bandwidth throughtout ther world. 

Our prime minister is again promising (on everybody else's money) to make the UK the Broadband capital of the World (!!? Ha Ha ?!!) He has quite evidently not heard of South Korea's bandwidth and speed then! 

The latest is a $10 levy per year on all with a telephone to speed it up, needless to say no dates for such 'Pie in the Sky'. 

Thanks for the information: I hope that you can find it somewhere in due course it promises (I hope) to be quite good.


----------



## Great Western (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi Peter,

I have encountered the issue before hand where people outside the UK were not able to watch certain links from the BBC.
Regarding Tornado: we are expecting it here on my Heritage Line in July/August/September. The main difference to what has already been filmed is that the loco will not be at speed but climbing the steep grades encountered on the Paignton & Dartmouth Steam Railway. This will enable folks to hear her hard at work.


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Peter,

I am not able to follow the reason for the sheet as described. I assume the 25 kv lines are overhead for electric locomotives. What is the sheet you describe? Do you mean like a bed sheet? Or a piece of sheet metal? How is the coal moved from the tender to the firebox? Only 75 MPH? In a brand new locomotive? What is the track speed? 

I was going to comment that his hands looked pretty clean compared to his face. Makeup?! 


Hi Mark,


Here are a series of replies to help you - Thank you for your interest.

The 'sheet' is I think a tarpaulin which covers the gap between the cab roof and the top of the tender, the A4's have a sheet metal covering there (with a curved rear shape), and a smaller sheet twixt cab & tender.

As you say the 25KV power cables are the power system for most of the East Coast traffic (some are still diesel - using HST's),.

The loco, and most steam loco's are limited to 75mph, the A1 Steam trust have a new (as opposed to a rebuild) loco, and hope that they will have their own speed limit of 90 mph, in due course. The line speed by the way is I think, 125 mph. 

Re Clarkson's 'sooty' state it could be 'make up' I quite agree, though the regular crews (who are working & passed for steam loco operation, don't forget that now they work either diesel or electric locos) railwaymen seem to end up almost the same. The above sheet covers the gap more than what was the normal amount to totally stop any climbing on the tender. When the lines went up there were several deaths of firemen doing juts that - hence the what musty be quite claustrophobic all encompassing sheet used now. The A1 tenders would be just normal tenders I think: not with the same (sheet metal, and then a 'tarp' section to fill the gap between cabroof & tender) extras that were fitted to the A4 class. These locos were built at a time of great austerity, and cheapness where possible ruled, thopugh they did have things like roller bearing axleboxes fitted.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

Posted By markoles on 06/16/2009 2:51 PM How is the coal moved from the tender to the firebox? 


1. Pick up shovel.

2. Apply firmly to pile of coal, filling shovel.

3. Put coal in firebox.

4. Repeat as necessary to maintain an even fire.

tac
http://www.ovgrs.org/

PS - as far as I know, the only locomotives in UK ever to have mechanical stokers were all built for somebody else's railroads by the NBLW in Glasgow. The LMS had a thirty-three 2-6-0 + 0-6-2 Beyer Garratts with rotating coal bunkers - all this did was to bring the coal down the bunker to floor so that the fireman could shovel it up more easily. See - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Garratt

The single LNER Garratt, often fired by my late Warrant Officer's step-father, and a pretty humungous 2-8-0 + 0-8-2, was entirely fed a combination of hand and shovel. See - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LNER_Class_U1


----------



## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Jeremy's sooty appearance probably came from ignoring when somebody said, "I wouldn't do that if I were you."









If you haven't seen Top Gear, you're really missing something!


----------



## Johnsop (Jan 5, 2008)

Having been a fireman when I was younger I can quite believe the filthy state of Jeremy's face. Normally you you can keep your hands reasonably clean with the rag you keep on you to protect your hands from the sometimes very hot brass injector handles etc - I am sure it is genuine steam engine dirt!!

PHIL


----------



## davidarf (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac

As always you are on the button. I have read a number of reports in my books of the huge physical effort needed to fire that LNER Garratt.

Having had the chance to both drive and fire a full size (rather more modest) steam locomotive, I concluded that the job of driver was not only physically easier, but also technically easier to learn than that of the fireman. I think that the role of fireman was undervalued by many. The skill needed to maintain the fire and water levels to have the correct head of steam at the right time is staggering. Clearly to leave the driver with insufficient steam for acceleration or hill climbing is an obvious sin, but the fireman could be severely criticised for allowing the locomotive to run with the safety blowing for long periods, wasting both coal and water. A fireman who could present the driver with the correct head of steam when needed, and then maintain that situation over a long distance high speed run deserved a lot more credit. It will be interesting to see how much they tried to teach Clarkson. I hope he was more successful than I was in trying to get the injector to work when water was needed.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

The six-foot four-inch Clarkson had another real impediment - he is way too tall for a fireman. His long arms have to lift and then drop a twenty-pound shovel of coal almost two feet more than the average fireman [five feet, nine inches]. He would be feeling his efforts for the next month, at least. not only that, but he could not see the back face of the fire - his eyes are just too high above the footplate.

Kudos to him for trying though. Even thoug he earned at least hundred times more doing it than any REAL fireman would have done.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

PLease correct me if I'm mistaken, I don't think that one went directly to being a driver/engineer, but progressed from a fireman. If so, by the time one was sitting on that side of the cab they knew well what it took to lay and keep a proper fire.


----------



## tacfoley (Jan 3, 2008)

You are correct.

There were young firemen, but no young drivers/engineers.

In France, engineers were called Mecaniciens de locomotif and were THE top of the class personnel, veritable gods of the footplate, and listened to by the great French locomotive designers like Chapelon. Here in UK they were almost treated as well - a 'top link' engine driver was a person of real standing in the railway company.

tac
www.ovgrs.org


----------



## peter bunce (Dec 29, 2007)

Hi Steve, 

Yes that is right, the full progression system was cleaner/laborer (more pay than a cleaner)/passed fireman/fireman/passed to driver/driver. All of course, mainly from fireman on were via the various links leading to top link = express driver. 

To get there took a lot of time & effort as you had to know a huge amount of routes, with a great amount of detail of those routes. By then of course age was making itself felt! Some drivers reckon that driving a loose couple freight train was actually much more skilled, and more effort as well. 

Loose coupled means that there are just (mainly) 3 link couplings between wagons, and no power brakes; the train stops before downward gradients and the guard, and fireman if he is not doing other things (like going to the signal box to make sure the signalman knows the train is there) go along the train pushing down & locking down brakes levers. At the bottom of the gradient they stop and take them off again! To get such a train under way, on a gradient with rain and side winds blowing was very difficult - one snatch and a coupling could ans would break and the train was in two parts. 

There is an old story about a station at the bottom of a dip (in South West Scotland) where a train parted and one portion spent most of the night running backwards and forwards through the station, where the station master also lived and he was kept awake all nught - the time of the tale was a long time ago and no doubt they tale has gained more with each telling! There were (handbrake only ) cabooses (we called the gurads vans) - what happened to that is not disclosed, perhaps the train was in 3 parts, with the middle part totally out of control, and no brakes at all!

Later some wagons and vans (mainly) were fitted with vac. brakes and could assist the engine & guard in keeping a (mainly) loose coupled (with a power brake portion) under ciontrol - no wonder they moved slowly!

Express or passenger trains were much easier with screw couplings and later buckeye couplings and power brakes, we generally used the cheaper vacuum system, but some companies used Westinghouse air brakes, ans eventually that replaced the vac. brake system. Except for preserved railways and they are hoping to fit the (old) vac. system (in addition to air) back onto the Flying Scotsman loco! That is so it can pull old (non air) coaches. 

Gets complicated doesn't it!


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

For those that may just enjoy such railroad information as this, the following is an interesting book from an American perspective.

*Object Lessons (1899)*
*File Format: PDF - File Size: 5.24MB*
*Left-click to open / Right-click to download*


----------



## markoles (Jan 2, 2008)

Tac,

Funny funny!! I guess I should have been a little clearer with my question!! 

I was reading Peter's description and didn't understand what he meant by a sheet protecting someone from moving from the cab to the tender!! I guess he meant a sheet across the top of the coal pile? That'd make sense.


----------

