# Now here's an update for embossing rivets



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Talk about applying technology check this out.

How I Stopped Hating Tenders and Learned to Love Technology[/b]


----------



## jimtyp (Jan 2, 2008)

Anyone sell a machine like this? I don't think I could put one of these together myself.


----------



## wchasr (Jan 2, 2008)

Cool beans and I'd defeintely go the CNC punch press route if I were to build one. 

Chas


----------



## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Wouldn't an arbor press and a spring-unload punch be cheaper and simpler?

Les


----------



## Dwight Ennis (Jan 2, 2008)

That's cool! I think I'll make a punching attachment for my CNC milling machine! Thanks for the info.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 11/11/2008 6:14 PM
Wouldn't an arbor press and a spring-unload punch be cheaper and simpler?

Les

Without a doubt you are correct, as would many other hand tool methods (e.g. medium density wood backing block and an appropriately sized nail with blunted point), and I don't see anything wrong with anyone choosing whatever methodology they desire.

At the same time I see nothing wrong with someone choosing to learn a new methodology, and the technology to implement it, in a "do-it-yourself" relatively inexpensive manner. Who knows, it might even lead to a budding entrepreneur and a new supplier for the hobby, or it may just let someone build a better model, or the fleet of locomotives they've always wanted, which are not available on the commercial market. It remains nothing more than another idea thrown out there for people to peruse and decide whether or not it holds any interest or value for them.


----------



## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Steve,

I have no problem with anyone doing anything they desire. As for me, all my machining was done on manual machines. I had an XY digital R/O on my Series II mill at work but never used it after the first time a chip got in the pickup and I ruined about two day's worth of work.

And I wholly agree that for this hobby, it's going to be people in basements or small shops who manage to scale up production to further benefit the hobby and their own pockets. I don't see the big manufacturers even bothering to exploit the niche markets.

This is an area where I think the Brits and the Europeans have an advantage on us. They will happily settle for roughly-machined parts and finish 'em to suit, where we tend to demand plug 'n play. So a small operator can survive better over there. For example, I've been looking for large-sized spoked drivers. Not very hard, but looking. I'd be ever so delighted to find rough-cast or rough-machined drivers/parts to finish, flange and whatnot to suit. But the price has to reflect the amount of work left to do.

I recognize the importance of uniformity in this particular application. I just have to wonder if there's not a simpler way to get it? But if 'button pushing' is important (and it is, very, in production apps) then by all means, go for it. Post pixes, huh?

Les


----------



## Jerry Barnes (Jan 2, 2008)

Les, 
Walsall , in the UK, sells all kinds of spoked drivers. http://www.walsallmodelindustries.co.uk/


----------



## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks, Jerry!

Les


----------



## astrayelmgod (Jan 2, 2008)

There's a note at the bottom of that page that implies that he and some buddies have spent a dozen years perfecting it; which doesn't seem out of line for a hobby; especially if he is counting the misfires, dead ends, etc. As much as I can appreciate a good stepper controlled X-Y-Z table, ... I dunno...


----------



## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Astra,

Note, 'he and some buddies'. Never mind the dozen years. Congregated brain power can do wonders, as I'm sure you're aware.

Sometimes I find myself wondering at the reluctance to develop manual skills shown by some who'd benefit from it. While Steve exaggerated a tad for humor, a blunt nail, a suitable block and some practice might give surprising results.

I have an old, old issue of MR (ca 1960) that shows how to build a punch press to make uniform sized rivet head simulations--one at a time. It even has a 'scale' of some sort that allows fairly accurate spacing. I can think of a couple of other ways to do the same thing right off the top of my head, but then, that used to be my trade.

I sat down one afternoon, unwilling to get involved in anything, and made a rivet-embossed saddle for a steamer stack, to attach it to the boiler. Out of a piece of tag card stock and an old, dull punch that was the same size as the rest of the rivets on the boiler. Looked pretty good. I just punched on an old piece of 2x4 for a backer.

As for building a z-axis CNC punch, I have a ready answer from my personal perspective: Uh-uh.









Les


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Posted By Les on 11/13/2008 6:22 PM

Sometimes I find myself wondering at the reluctance to develop manual skills shown by some who'd benefit from it. While Steve exaggerated a tad for humor, a blunt nail, a suitable block and some practice might give surprising results.

Hey Les,

I really wasn't doing that blunt nail and wood backer as humor, and if I'm not mistaken it's one (if not the primary method) of the methods that David Fletcher (of MasterClass fame here on MLS) uses to make his models.

Nor was I attempting to side step learning manual hand skills and/or methods either.


----------



## Les (Feb 11, 2008)

Posted By SteveC on 11/13/2008 8:05 PM
Posted By Les on 11/13/2008 6:22 PM

Sometimes I find myself wondering at the reluctance to develop manual skills shown by some who'd benefit from it. While Steve exaggerated a tad for humor, a blunt nail, a suitable block and some practice might give surprising results.

Hey Les,

I really wasn't doing that blunt nail and wood backer as humor, and if I'm not mistaken it's one (if not the primary method) of the methods that David Fletcher (of MasterClass fame here on MLS) uses to make his models.

Nor was I attempting to side step learning manual hand skills and/or methods either.











Steve, I stand corrected. Hope I haven't created an issue where none was intended. I happen to have a scratchbuilder's perspective. The ability to actually be able to do so is the primary thing that attracted me to LS initially.









Les


----------



## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Les

No, no issue created what so ever. It's just I guess that I come at it from another perspective.

For example Dwight Ennis (another MLS member & moderator) created a live steam replica of Southern Pacific's Engine No. 21; the first cab-forward, fuel-oil powered, marine type water-tube boiler, steam locomotive. Now he started with raw materials and used CNC machining (i.e. both mill & lathe) to accomplish the bulk of this.

However, just because he chose to utilize advanced technology methodology to accomplish this, I wouldn't consider what he accomplished any less of a scratch-built locomotive. Just because he didn't choose to accomplish the exact same thing via strictly hand tool methods.

I have no problem with the use of any given level of technology old or new to accomplish a task. Heck, I've got over 35 wooden molding planes, a complete Stanley No. 45 multi-plane, plus a whole bunch of other general & specialized hand wood working tools that were handed down from my great-great-Grandfather. I also have 3 different electric routers and a spindle-shaper too. Some times I'm in the mood to accomplish the task using the hand wooden molding planes other times I may use one of the routers or the spindle-shaper. Truth being, when finished it's darn hard to tell which tools I used to accomplished the job.


----------



## MasonsDad (Feb 7, 2008)

Morning guys 
What I used for embossing my rivet heads is a simple sheet metal hole punch, Northern tool has it for about 40 bucks and it comes with the Dies ranging in size from 3/32 to 9/32, Thats what I used for my rivet/ gusset plates on my bridges by simply using the 3/32 hole die and the 9/32 punch die and the rivet heads come out dang neared scale depending on the thickness of the material your embossing. I have since then built my own stamp press which is still in the construction stage but just about done, i just need to make it from bench top to free standing, one of these days when I get my camera back I will post some pictures of all of my equipment that I have built ranging from the fold up heavy duty work bench, the portable gang drill presses , the pantograph / copycat cutter and all the other toys i have built and bought just for my Bridges, Buildings and Turntables. 
Yall take care


----------

