# Funs over already for My Find



## Zmd73 (Dec 3, 2009)

Hello Out there,

My folks gave me an old LGB Lake George Start kit. How old is it not sure. My Daughter and I had it running for twenty minutes. Then it just stopped. How do I take it apart to figure out what is wrong?

Thanks

- Dwight


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

You said it suddenly stopped. Does it make noise but not go? Is it simply dead? Or does it trip out the overload on the power pack due to a dead short? 

If everything is dead, you might want to check to see if the transformer is working before you rip into the locomotive. I've had a few (mostly Bachmann and Tyco when I played in smaller scales) toast themselves for no obvious reason.A DC voltmeter or a car light bulb (at less than 1/2 throttle) will give you an idea. Dead set power packs are junk, easier and cheaper to buy another one than to fix them. 

If you're sure it's the engine, the power brick is pretty easy to drop. I'm not sure which version of the Stainz you have . All I have handy at the moment is my daughter's 2017 (you said set 72414.....so I think it's the same one), the 2020 version is also very similar, the later one with the plastic valve gear is a little different, but not too much. 

First,you need to unscrew the chimney, the nut is semi-captive so just grab the chimney itself and turn (lefty loosy righty tighty!)... then pull it straight up about 2" and pull the cowcatcher (front coupler on the 2020) out from the front. 









Next, unclip the valve gear hangers from the running boards (both sides!) just pull outward gently, they'll unhook









Finally, remove the screws at the rear, (I think the 2020 has them on the sides behind the rear wheel?) and pull the rear coupler straight out the back. The brick should then simply pull straight down out of the body. 









At this point if it was dead or a dead short, I'd try running the bare power brick. If it was dead when assembled but the brick runs by itself, you're going to have to take the superstructure apart to see if the directional lighting circuit has come loose and shorted on the boiler weight, or if the wires have rubbed and shorted. Let me know and I'll walk you through that if we need to. 

If the brick is dead, you'll have to take it apart. If you're lucky one of the motor leads is just pinched off. If the motor runs but it doesn't move, you'll also have to tear the brick apart... and it's been a while since I've done that. 

And btw, this kind of stuff IS 'fun', for me anyway. LGB stuff is a joy to work on


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Following Mik's excellent post...If you do not have a digital VOM, I would buy a cheap one if you plan to piddle with this stuff for a while, Radioshack have some nice small ones. Ditto with Harbour Freight, I have among my collection of 6 or so this very meter from their Cen-"Dreck" line of tools:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...mber=90899

Any nearby autoparts store will have cheap ones too. I buy cheap because I used to buy good ones, but I drop, drown, drive over, burn, etc them up at an equal rate!

If you do not know the functions of your VOM, read the little (often worthless) book or check some of the basic tutorials that can be found on The Google on The Internets:

For example: http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/vom.html

After this....

Here is a step by step of how to eliminate the loco following Mik's lead-

Is the power pack plugged in the wall (don't laugh nor assume it is), breaker/powestrip/GFCI not tripped, etc? The pack should give a slight in the words of Frank Zappa "Dynamo Humm" when working normally.

If that is OK...

Take the loco and everything else off the track. Disconnect the power pack from the track.

Use the Ohm (resistance) function on the two rails of the track to first see if you have a short in the track somewhere (Doubtful, but start simple). The reading should be open (infinity) or 1 or the same as if you do not touch the two leads together (digital meters can read different) Zero or close to it means you have a short somewhere. Find it.

If that is OK..

Crank up the pack as Mik said, and see how many DC volts are being read. It should be within the range on the pack (0-12/18 depending on pack). Check both the terminals on the pack, and the terminals at the end of the wires where they connect to the track (break in a lead can happen). If the pack terminals are OK, but the leads give no voltage, then use the resistance function (with the pack turned off!) on each wire to find the wonky one.

If that is OK...

Now, if it passes that test, put the pack to zero and hook on the track, then put the loco on and crank it up, see if there is still the same range of voltage.

If so, and the loco does not move, then there is a problem with it. If it does not, either the pack is failing under load, or you may have a short in the loco.

Try this and get back to us. 

FYI: Mik's loco should be the same as yours, but they did have a different type of motor block starting around 1988-1990, but they both drop out the same.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

ONE OTHER SIMPLE CHECK!!!! 

Turn off the smoke stack on the loco by moving the metal finger in Mik's picture above. THey can short out!


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

1. Check that there's nothing stuck in the rods.

2. Some LGB power packs will shut down if they overload and won't come back till you unplug them and plug them back in.


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## Zmd73 (Dec 3, 2009)

Here is what has happend. Unsure if how to disassemble the Loco I left it for the morning. Today we were finishing the decorations on the tree when my 4 year old ask me to run the train. Explaining to her would not work so I had show well guess what it started to work. It ran for twentiy minutes or so then it just stoped and not run again. Could it be the Transformer? I have a 50030/110 transformer. No noise came out of the train while it was running. I still want to take the train apart because the light on the train is old and yellow like to switch it out. The tranformer does not feel hot from over heating. Is the manufacturing date on the Transformer I noticed 1995 stamp on the plucg that leads into the transformer.

Any thoughts suggestions ? 

Thanks


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, sounds like you are tripping an internal breaker in the transformer if it conks out at 20 min. I have a Bachmann one that you can almost set a watch to. You can get a good MRC or the like from a local shop. 

Older LGB bulbs are yellow coated, and if they are the screw base (e5?), 18/24V. Finding a clear one at that voltage may be tough. 

I like the yellow myself, more prototypical for an older steam loco. The new blue-white LEDs on steam models make them look like a Lexus IS350 going down the track!!


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Honestly? I'd get a Crest/Aristo/Rea 5400 power pack that they used in the sets... Actually, I already have 3 of them. As long as you don't have an LGB sound card in the loco, the pulse width control will make the Stainz run VERY smoothly. (LGB sound cards work funny on PWC, just like Aristo ones just make funny noises at low speed with straight DC). It has enough amperage to run your Stainz plus the power tender if/when you get one. They also have soft start/stop that simulates the momentum of a real train, a red light that will show you when you have an overload, and a built in circuit breaker that cycles a bit quicker than the LGB one when it gets tripped....


They usually run about $25-35 on evilbay


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Could it not be something as simple as depending on just how long the set was stored in the attic, that the grease has deteriorated and gotten hard/stiff causing the overload? Maybe just cleaning the old grease out and re-lubricating with new, then run just the loco by itself and see what happens.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Steve- 

It would be interesting to see what kind of load the loco is pulling, if it is exceeding the 1 amp rating of the pack. This would be the indication where the problem lay. 

I still think I will incorporate some form of true Ammeter in my home made "Kraftwerk" before all is said and done for such reasons.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

You can remove the yellow coating on the LGB 18 volt screw base bulbs with a paper towel and rubbing alcohol. only takes a minute.


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Safe bet: It's the transformer.

There's one a little beefier, but still cheap called an "Aristo 5400" I'd bet somebody has one in a junk box they'd send you.


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## Zmd73 (Dec 3, 2009)

I think it is the transformer. I pull out the Multimeter and when it is running the transformer is pushing out a stead 8 - 21.5 (depending the speed). I let it run constant then out it goes I check the transformer and the ouput is "0". I play with the knob and it seems to catch and starts run again for a bit and conck out again. Is there a easy way to repairit?


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

My memory is there is no way of opening them. It most likley would be a lot quicker, cheaper and easier to buy a new one anyhow.


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## SteveC (Jan 2, 2008)

Dwight

The problem is what you've tested only tells you that the over current protection in the power supply is working. 

What isn't known is...
[*] Is the power supply working as it's supposed to, and the locomotive is drawing more current than the power supply is designed to supply. Thus the over current protection is kicking in as it should to protect both the power supply and the locomotive.
[*] Or is the locomotive working properly, and the power supply is defective and is not capable of supplying the current it was designed to provide, and the over current protection is kicking in when it shouldn't.
[/list] The only way to test the system to determine which is which, is to measure the actual current flowing in the circuit (i.e. the amperage) not the voltage. However, if you don't know what you're doing it's a real fast way to destroy a multi-meter (analogue or DVOM), because all the current has to flow through the meter to test it.

The risk that you run by just replacing the power supply is, if the replacement is capable of supplying more current without triggering its over current protection, than the one that's seemingly not working, and the problem actually is in the locomotive and it's drawing more current than it should, you could burn up the motor in the locomotive.


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

Quick low budget test. Run the loco til the power pack quits again, then immediately turn the locomotive over and see if the center of the brick between the wheels (where the motor is) is uncomfortably warm. If the motor is drawing enough to trip a properly working overload then it's going to heat up, badly.

Just for giggles, while you have it upside down look to see if you have anything wound between a wheel and the sides of the brick (thread, yarn, xmas icicles, etc - might as well check the journals on the cars, too....). How "free rolling" should this type of locomotive chassis be? All of the Stainz power bricks we have here (6 at the moment!) will actually roll the wheels when pushed (with a slight downward pressure applied -- don't try this with a Bachmann or Aristo, tho). If it doesn't, you've got some sort of bind someplace.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I have a DC amp meter(analog) that I find very useful. It was my fathers, so I have no idea where he got it. I think that if you went to an electronic supply store you could get one for not much money. A full multimeter can be bought at Radioshack for less than $30. They have some that will measure up to 10 amps. Above that you will blow the machine. That is why I'm recommending a stand alone meter. It' is safer.

You could put a fuse in the line with the multimeter that would blow at some amperage that you choose that is less than 10 amps. 


Chuck


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

The type of motorblock on your lok should pull 0.5 amps normally. 0.6 total amps if you have smoke.
Try Mik's test, SteveC has a very valid point, but my experience is packs will get flakey, but here is ANOTHER cheap/simple test that may help eliminate things further.


Go to a RadioShack that sells parts (NOT in a mall, you can check online), and (avoiding the Cel Phone and Tandy computer offers) buy some 1.0 amp (power pack rating) and some 0.5/500mA (loco rating SANS smoke) fuses, the first two here:

http://www.radioshack.com/family/in...Id=2032303


Go out and buy a single fuse holder from Radio Shack, either the panel type if you can solder, or one of the in line wire types if you cannot (you can crimp or twist):
http://www.radioshack.com/family/in...Id=2032302

Put the holder and the fuse in one of the two lines to your pack (series), the other end to the track, and the other wire as normal.

Chances are good that the 0.5 amp one will blow quickly as it is at the loco's rating, but they have a bit of a safety factor and these fuses are slow blow.

Now, IF the 1.0 amp one blows, you do have an excessive draw somewhere.

Try this and get back to us...


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## Mik (Jan 2, 2008)

What happened? We're curious!...


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing just today Mik.....


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

50030/110 power pack has a 7 va rating and at 21 volts that equates to .333 amps. 

Trains (DC motors) will draw less at low speeds than high speeds and draw more current as more cars (load increases) are added. 

So, the 50030/110 can just handle the starter set engines with no smome and only a head light!!!!!!! 

These power packs will overheat if trains are run full speed, or you try to run dual motor engines.


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## Spule 4 (Jan 2, 2008)

I fear we may have lost Dwight....


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## Torby (Jan 2, 2008)

Hope he's having fun with his train.


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## mgilger (Feb 22, 2008)

I've used the Harbor Freight DVM's for years. You can sometime pick them up for $2.99 in the store. I always keep several as spares and for this price they are a throw away. 

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ct...mber=90899 

Mark


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