# Help with choosing locomotive



## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Hi;

I would appreciate any help you guys can give me in choosing a locomotive. The G-scale locomotive has to:

-be able to turn on 5-6ft diameter curves.
-be able to log a pretty good amount of cargo(so either a strong single motor or two motor locomotive).
-be able to run continuously for 10-12 hours a day.
-preferably steam locomotive style.

Thank you for your help


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## Michael W (Oct 10, 2012)

Mhh you like steam engines, do you have any preference on the style?
I.e. European, American, narrow gauge, main line?
You seem to be looking for something that pretty much runs most of the day. 
Personally I would go for a LGB locomotive as they are quite robust and good pullers.
Kind regards Michael


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thanks Michael. 
do you have any preference on the style?I.e. European, American, narrow gauge, main line?  no preference on the style of the steam engine, although I like LGB engines.

You seem to be looking for something that pretty much runs most of the day. 
Personally I would go for a LGB locomotive as they are quite robust and good pullers. I like to go with LGB, but is there any of the LGBs that fit my criteria?


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Wow, 10-12 hours a day is asking a lot, even for LGB. I would have to go with a LGB 2-6-0 Mogul. I have two and they are my favorite locomotives. Parts are plentiful and there are wood burners and coal burners. They come in several road names. As for good pullers, mine will pull 15 frt cars plenty easily on level track. If your layout has grades, expect a lot of extra wear and shorter trains.

Piko has a Mogul that can be bought for quite a bit less capital, but how well they would stand up to 10-12 hours of running is pretty much unknown. Forget about using any Aristo Craft engines as there are no parts to speak of, for repairs.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

Hi;

The locomotive you described may be made by the Hartland Locomotive Works, and is known as Big John. It is not very pretty, but it is a good runner and a strong puller. It is loosely based on the Dunkirk geared locomotives. You can view the locomotive at the HLW site by going to this link: http://www.h-l-w.com/Products/locomotives.html and scrolling down until you see the Big John and Paul Bunyan models.

I really love mine.










Best of luck in your search,
David Meashey


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## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

A question like that will most likely get subjective replies because we all have our favorites.

From my experiences, if you're looking for build quality, a strong runner, durable, and European, I would also go with LGB. Their Stainz locomotive is a great starter locomotive. It was my first G scale locomotive and it still runs 17 years later. The traction tire and many of the smaller pieces are long gone, but the wheels stil turn and the lights still come on.

If you want something that you can simply put down on track with tight curves and run with no problems for years, but is American steam, I would look at the USA Train's 0-6-0 switcher.

If you want something that can be modified to your own tastes through kit-bashing, and is American narrow gauge, look at the newer Bachmann locomotives. Many of the older ones had gear problems, but overall their quality is good.

You could also go for Aristo Craft, but you won't have any place to find parts because Aristo Craft closed at the beginning of this year. However, that means you can find them used at train shows and all the vendors across the country are going to try and rid themselves of Aristo craft equipment.

I hear Accucraft make great live steam locomotives, but I've never owned a live steam locomotive, so I can't say for sure. In case you don't know, "live steam" means that the locomotive runs off of real steam, with a fire boiling water, just like the real thing. Of course, these locomotives are more expensive than the electric locomotives.

So there's some options to think of. As I said, you will get many opinionated answers because we all have our favorites. What I recommend most of all is to go out and see a variety of locomotives for yourself, pick and choose what you think will be best for you. Go to a local club, or try traveling to the National Convention in Florida this summer before you make any major purchases. And if you're just starting, I highly recommend a starter set from USA trains, LGB, or Bachmann. For the same price as a locomotive, you can also get a loop of track, a power pack, and a couple of cars. You won't have to lay down too much money and then you can add on to that with whatever you like.

Good Luck and don't forget to post your layout on the forum when you get around to building it!

--James


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thank you very much for the inputs. My last and biggest criteria is the curve diameter. I need the locomotive to be able to run 5-6ft curve with no problem. Would LGB 2-6-0 Mogul be able to handle that kind of curve.
I have already setup the track using Lgb brass flex tracks. For the controls I am using the NCE DCC 10amp system. Now, I just need to get the right locomotive.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

I have two LGB Moguls. They will handle the 5 to 6 foot diameter curves, and even a 4 foot diameter curve. The friction caused by those curves will reduce the number of cars they may be able to pull. Since the Moguls represent narrow gauge locomotives, the prototypes were usually used with short trains.

The HLW locomotive that I mentioned above has two motors and pivoting "truck" type drive wheels, like the Shay, Climax, and Heisler geared locomotives. The configuration does provide an advantage on the sharper curves.

Just giving the facts; the final decision is your own.

Regards,
David Meashey

P.S. The photo below shows the original red Mogul on 5 foot diameter track.


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## Totalwrecker (Feb 26, 2009)

Dave has given sound advice, if you want your loco to last, you should equip your cars with metal wheels and ball bearing journals. Because of our toy train heritage, we have plastic gears.... drag must be considered, do the above and keep them lightly lubed. 
Just a drop of quality plastic compatible oil. The synthetic motive oils seem to be the best buy... I like Mobil1, after changing my truck's oil, I let the 'cans' do a final drain in a jar....price is right and a little lasts... til next time.

John


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thank you Dave, John. I like that idea a lot, I will buy flat cars with metal wheels. I am looking to get 3-6 (depending on the length of the cars) flat cars to be pulled by the locomotive. These flat cars will have cargo on them, each about 1-2 lbs of cargo.
Also, Dave, what is the locomotive in your picture that does the 5ft diameter curve.


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

I have the same diameter as yours and this is my experience:
1. Piko loco is not strong enough to pull more than 4 cars with metal wheels. If you run too long hours, they will burn up. And in fact my Piko loco can survive only 3 months. I run only 2-3 hours per day for that loco. One day, the metal rod from the motor burned up because it pulled 4 metal wheeled cars. Since then, another problem is the gears are very weak. 
2. USA train-dockside 0-6-0 is good for that narrow railway. But the loco derails very easily on narrow curves. It happened one time and destroyed the loco.
3. LGB locos probably is the best option. Although, I doubt that a 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 would be able to pull more than 5 metal-wheeled cars in narrow curves over a long period of time. For my < 5feet diameter railway, the stainz can pull 2-3 cars, the others 2-6-2 or 0-6-2 LGB locos pull 3-5 cars. All have metal wheels. 
4. I think I like the USA NW2 diesel model since it has dual motors, I am certain that it fits your specification, but I never try. Probably, that is my next goal.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I would recommend an LGB 0-4-0. Your tight curves and long hours will eat up engines, especially the longer ones.

Chuck


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## Sjoc78 (Jan 25, 2014)

Look into this LGBB Engine http://www.lgb.com/en/products/narrow_gauge/details.html?page=4&perpage=10&level1=6218&level2=6221&art_nr=22155&era=0&gaugechoice=36&groupchoice=97&subgroupchoice=0&backlink=%2Fwww.lgb.com%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fnarrow_gauge%2Flocomotives.html

Or the green Americanized version, this at least used to have a motor in the engine and the tender. Also you can buy just the tender and add it to any of the small Steam loco's such as the Stanz or the porter.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LGB-2015D-V...421308?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item338c414abc Also found one on Ebay, little pricey but probably can find it or the Americanized version cheaper. Look at the Lake George and Boulder ones with out Tender and see if you can find the motorized tender to match.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I didn't have time to add this to my previous post, but running like you are planning to do, you will probably have to replace your curved track every few years. A friend of mine runs like that and grinds down the inside of the outside rail.
Chuck


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

The LGB Moguls made in Germany are quite good the Chinese, not so much. The Big John is pretty tough and heavy with two motors make it a real puller!


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thank you very much for your feedback. The USA NW2 seem to be a powerful locomotive, but the LGB 0-4-0 & Dr Road Number 99 2816 are both single motor locomotives. I am planning to have about 3-4 cars each carrying about 2lbs of material which means the locomotive is pulling between 6-8lbs of logs plus the weight of the cars. Do you think that the LGB 0-4-0 or the LGB 2816 can handle that kind of a load?


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Mike, are there any LGBs that are still made in Germany (specially the LGB Moguls) or are they all made in China?


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## mymodeltrain (May 14, 2013)

"Thank you very much for your feedback. The USA NW2 seem to be a powerful locomotive, but the LGB 0-4-0 & Dr Road Number 99 2816 are both single motor locomotives. I am planning to have about 3-4 cars each carrying about 2lbs of material which means the locomotive is pulling between 6-8lbs of logs plus the weight of the cars. Do you think that the LGB 0-4-0 or the LGB 2816 can handle that kind of a load?"

I think it is unlikely to be a good plan even if your track is free of grades. Last night, I just tried the LGB 2073D (0-6-2, although it is used but it was made in Germany, very good quality), it is perfect for my narrow railway. For the LGB 2-6-2 loco you have be careful, in the curve area you must use LGB R3 track to accommodate the length of the loco instead of R1.


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## K.A.Simpson (Mar 6, 2008)

You are in a good place as many of us remember the decision on what to buy as our first loco. 
So many things to consider, mine was a 2-6-0 Bachman big hauler.
I was taken to a model railway exhibition, where I first saw large scale. I didn't even know it existed in that size. The dealers were very understanding & friendly, I purchased my loco a week later ,after I obtained approval from my financial advisor (wife). I didn"t even have any track for 3 months!

Enjoy each stage of your hobby, as each part of your garden railways is added to & over time & builds up to a lasting enjoyment for your lifetime.

Andrew
Sandbar & Mudcrab Railway


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Is there anything you can do to reduce weight? Put those flat car loads on a diet! Adding eight pounds is a substantial additional load.

I lean toward something with two motors, so I would look at the LGB HF Mallet 0-6-6-0, or Saxony Mallet 0-4-4-0. If you want something visually smaller, LGB make an 0-6-0 with powered tender. It's out of production, but the HSB 2-10-2 is also dual motored.

Any of those will easily cope with 5' radius (and even quite less.)

If you're also looking for European rolling stock, models with four axles roll easier than models with two. For both locomotives and cars, the length of each rigid wheelbase impacts the drag from flanges on the inside lip of the rail.


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thank you guys, very informative. LGB R3, is kind of wide and produces little over 8ft diameter curves. I had a feeling that the LGB 0-6-2 didn't have the power I needed.
The two engine locomotives like the LGB HF Mallet 0-6-6-0 needs a 5ft radius which is 10ft curve, that is too wide of a curve for my needs. But, it seems that for the kind of weight I am putting on the cars, I might need a two engine locomotive. Is there any two engine locomotive that can run on a 3ft radius(6ft curve)?


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

pepelpue1 said:


> The two engine locomotives like the LGB HF Mallet 0-6-6-0 needs a 5ft radius which is 10ft curve, that is too wide of a curve for my needs. But, it seems that for the kind of weight I am putting on the cars, I might need a two engine locomotive. Is there any two engine locomotive that can run on a 3ft radius(6ft curve)?


 
Where did you get this information?

To the best of my knowledge, all LGB locomotives will operate on R1 (four foot diameter), though some may look a little silly. Five foot radius is actually a lot for the "toy" derived brands. 

I'm sure all the models I listed will handle R1. Articulated locomotives are often better on sharp curves than smaller engines, due to the greater rigid wheelbase of the latter (just like the prototype.)


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Even my LGB Garrett will handle R1 curves (4ft diameter).










TOM


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Actually I was quoting your reply to my post. You had it as radius. But I think you just typed radius insead of diameter. I do the same sometimes. Wow, that would be prefect for me. So do they need easements before the R1? I have my track already setup using LGB Flex-Track. I have it close to 5ft diameter. If is not too much of a bother, I would really appreciate if you could explain something to me: what parts of the locomotive is it that determines the tightness of the curve and how( I mean the size of the wheels or the number of the wheels or the positions of the wheels, etc.) Thank you very much for your help.


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Friend of mine has a Bachmann Spectrum steam train 2-6-0 and that one requires at least a 8ft diameter curve(it actually is a bit tight for it at 8ft). Furthermore, this train is equipped with only one motor.


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

Ah, sorry. I thought I saw you had five foot radius.

There are a number of factors which can limit radius:

- Length of the rigid wheelbase. Rigid meaning the portion which generally contains all the driving wheels connected to a single pair of cylinders. This doesn't include the leading or trailing trucks, or the forward engine in an articulated loco. Some locos will have one or more sets of flange-less drivers, to allow the drivers to slide further sideways over the rail (the LGB Crocodile is like this - note how each end's wheelbase is longer than their articulated steamers, hence the flangeless drivers.)

- Flex in the locomotive's chassis. How far the bogies pivot, how much range of motion the leading and trailing trucks have. Also, how and where the chassis(s) attach to the boiler. This is why most electric articulated steamers have two swiveling engines (like a diesel or electric prototype, but not like a real articulated steamer, which solidly mounts the rear engine to the boiler.)

- Flange drag and misalignment of the wheelset. The axis of rotation of train wheels should be perpendicular to the track. As two or more wheelsets in a chassis enter a curve, the axels are out of alignment with the track, increasing drag, wear, and the risk of derailment. This is why LGB two-axle cars have swiveling wheelsets (though those introduce a new problem, failure of the wheelsets to run true on straights.)

- Overall length of the model, and how that impacts coupler alignment and loading gauge. A body mounted coupler on a long locomotive or car will swing well outside of the track on a curve, this will pull shorter cars right off the track. This is why large scale models usually have truck mounted couplers.

Loading gauge is the clearance required to trains on adjacent tracks and trackside objects. A long piece of rolling stock will protrude to the outside of a curve on its ends, and to the inside at its center. Sharper curves increase this effect, and therefore require the railway be built with sufficient clearance. I think this is why UK prototypes are smaller, their railways were built earlier during a time of smaller equipment, so the norms for clearance dictated later equipment keep those constraints.

- Drag and side loading. As trains round a bend, there is much more drag from wheel flanges rubbing and wheels sliding on rails (railway wheels do not have a differential like your car.) This is why there's a lot of squealing noise as a train rounds a sharp curve. As the train length increases, the drag load exerts increasing force; eventually it would pull the whole train off the inside of the curve.

To the best of my knowledge, size of wheel only matters in that larger wheels must be further apart, thus necessitating a longer wheelbase. Early American locomotives with the firebox between a pair of axles, result in longer wheelbase than engines without this limitation.

You don't need to ease model trains, but it does look more realistic to do so.


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Wow, that was fantastic amount of information. I really appreciate it. Some of these concepts are new to me,since this is my first train project, so I have to look up some of the terms you mentioned. I like to thank you again for your help.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

The original post mentioned 5-6' diameter.

All LGB engines that I know of will handle that curve. They were designed for 4' diameter. Some will look good and some won't, but they will handle it.

I ran the LGB 0-6-6-0 of R2 curves for many years on my layout in Denver without any problems. 

Here are a couple of pictures of the LGB 0-6-6-0 on my layout in Denver. The curves it is on are R2. The switches on that layout were LGB R1s.




















The LGB Sumpter Valley or Uintah Mallets would also run on those curves and would pull longer trains. but I do not know for how long. What you are planning for run times will be an experiment in the longevity of any engine. 

Chuck


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## jjwtrainman (Mar 11, 2011)

Say, I had an idea.

If you really need that much pulling power, how about double heading two locomotives? It's done in the real world all the time when large loads need to be pulled, and the load is too heavy for one locomotive. Double-heading would allow you to use two smaller locomotives that look decent on sharp curves. You've got 10 Amps of power to work with, so you are quite flexible if you're only looking for one (maybe 2?) locomotives.

Then, if you ever feel the need to run just one locomotive, you can do so quite easily by taking off the extra weight on the cars. It sounds like you love steam better than diesel. Any sort of steam locomotive that you'd find crawling up grades were regularly doubleheaded anyway. Articulated locomotives, shay, climax, heisler locomotives were often doubled up. Modern diesels of course are often found lashed together, and many of the smaller 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 locomotives doubled up often to get more power to pull since they were quite small and light.

So having two locomotives heading the same train are prototypical, and the few times I've done it, it was quite impressive. This works well on dirty track too because if one locomotive stalls on a dirty piece of track, often the other locomotive gives it a push or a pull and it starts again. I haven't found this to put much strain on the motors either, unless one locomotive just runs slower than the other.

Also, adding a bit of weight to a locomotive will help, although too much can cause a lot of strain on the gears. If you go that route you'll want to add enough to get really good traction, but not so much that it's a burden on the motor and the gears. 

So you've got plenty of options, and the locomotives presented here should all work for you.

--James


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

The only LGB engine I ever ran that had a problem on R1 (4 foot diameter) was the Gennisis and this was due to the engine would run, but the first car behind it would be forced off the track unless it had a lot of weight near the front truck.


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## pepelpue1 (Nov 17, 2013)

Thank you for the suggestions. 
James, the idea of double locomotive actually sounds pretty good. I would have hoped to use a single double engine steam train, preferably LGB locomotive. But if they can not handle 6-8 lbs of load that is on the cars then may be doubling the locomotive is the way to go(although based on the cost and the visual appeal, I would prefer a single locomotive).


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

TOM_1/20.3 said:


> Even my LGB Garrett will handle R1 curves (4ft diameter).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tom, that's not a regular garratt. It's a kitson-meyer style. Worked in Colombia built by Baldwin. A limited edition brass and steel LGB locomotive, hand made by Christian Hoehne (Magnus) in Germany. Only 100 made in 1980. 
Very Nice model!

Andrew


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## TOM_1/20.3 (Mar 28, 2013)

Garratt said:


> Tom, that's not a regular garratt. It's a kitson-meyer style. Worked in Colombia built by Baldwin. A limited edition brass and steel LGB locomotive, hand made by Christian Hoehne (Magnus) in Germany. Only 100 made in 1980.
> Very Nice model!
> 
> Andrew


I know. See previous post:

http://forums.mylargescale.com/21-rolling-stock/26392-dream-come-true.html

TOM


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## gigawat (Apr 4, 2012)

Anything LGB. They seem to go and go and go with little or no maintenance. LGB can easily handle the sharp radii you have. All of my LGBs pull long trains... never complain!


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## Garratt (Sep 15, 2012)

Tom, I thought it would be of interest to others as it is a very unusual model.
Thanks for the link.

Andrew


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## Randy Stone (Jan 2, 2008)

Pepe, can we ask what your plan is for these locomotives? What are you planning to pull with them? Is this some kind of display in a store?


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## BigRedOne (Dec 13, 2012)

I've been thinking about this thread. Last night I ran my new set for the first time, and it was an interesting experience. I bought the LGB "29450 Set for the 100th Anniversary of the Electrification of Engadin," and "32550 Bernina Passenger Car Set."

The locomotive is my first larger than the starter set Stainz, and these are the first cars I've run with metal wheels. The Bernina car set are also long two-axle cars, with plastic wheels.

The Ge 2/4 locomotive has a rigid wheelbase of about 116 mm, compared to a Stainz at about 78 mm. There appears to be considerably more flange drag, and slowing on curves is more pronounced; this is on R1 and R2 (four and five foot diameter, roughly.) With the full set running, there is a lot of drag. The metal wheels appear to be much worse than plastic on these tight turns (though the wagons don't seem to "wobble" as much.)

As an experiment, I loaded two pounds into each of three open wagons. So, the train was the Ge 2/4, two Bernina cars, one long open gon, and two short open gons (the last three all carrying two pounds.) At this point there was some slippage of the locomotive's drivers on part of my railway where an R2 curve leads into an R1 curve in the opposite direction, separated by a 300 mm straight.

In my view, you're better off using bogie flats if you want to carry a load - though I suggest modeling the load in lightweight materials like foam or balsa, and hollow wherever possible.


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

pepelpue1 said:


> Mike, are there any LGBs that are still made in Germany (specially the LGB Moguls) or are they all made in China?


None of the new ones are German made. They can be found however.


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## Dave Meashey (Jan 2, 2008)

I thought I had read that some were currently being produced in Hungary. I'm not sure which models, though.

Regards,
David Meashey


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