# wire pickups on wheels wigging out controller



## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

Here's the background,
LGB engine pulling Aristocraft cars. 
The Aristo cars have wires that take power off Wheels.
I have this sound car with a 9volt battery and it also took power from the wheels. When it was on track, it would short out the power supply some how ..

I had to remove the Aristocraft sound car wires from the axles, so the LGB engine and controller would pull it.

What is the purpose of drawing track power in a car wheel? 
Is it just for Lights? Does it do other things? 
Did I have a short? 
Since the sound car did not have lights I wonder why it drew track power.

Side note: After cleaning muck out of sound car it is cool to hear the steaming sound as speed picks up 

SC


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Probably to charge the battery. Is it a rechargeable battery? Or it powers the sound board and the battery is for backup only. Check to see if the polarity is correct on both trucks. If one truck was rotated 180 degrees that will cause a short. Put the car on the track with nothing else, slowly add power and check for a short. Chuck


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Since the sound car had track power pickups, the short was due to the engine and car creating the short when tied together. 
Swapping the wires at the connection should fix this issue. Or, if the car has wires at both ends, turn it around.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

If the sound car has pickups, it doesn't need to be plugged into the engine. Chuck


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## Treeman (Jan 6, 2008)

What power supply are you using?


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

Treeman 
Its a Chief yard man by Daylee electronics. 
The sound car makes a bell sound and the chuffing sound from the 9 volt. I don't know why it needed track power. No lights on it, no plug outlets the track power went to the circuit board. It picked up +/- from front and +/ - from the back trucks. I'm Puzzled SC


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Most older sound units have the battery only to provide some sound for a few moments after the track power is turned off, the prime power for the sound system comes from the tracks. At least that is how all of my sound units work, LGB, Phoenix, and Sierra. My guess is that you have an LGB sound unit since it has a 9v battery. Chuck


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARISTO-CRAF...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 

this link has the sound car with the engine, I don't have the engine. That would be great if other sounds came out of this car. Since bell and the Chuff Chuff are working . I wonder what other noise this can make. I need to Voltage check the track. Maybe I can hard wire the right voltage to the track input in the sound car. SC


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

I don't see a sound car on that link and there are several engines. What are the manufacturers model numbers? The link in your post suggests that you bought them from Silver State Trains. They are a sponsor here on MLS. Click on their logo, that will bring up a phone number. Call them. They know what you bought and they should be able to help you. Chuck


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Check N Perhaps the sound car is the tender, the picture does show the holes where the sound would come out of the bottom.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Dan, in the original post he talks about an LGB engine and an AristoCraft sound car. Chuck


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

That link seemed to have changed a little on me. Yes. It's a blue Bo tender on one of the engines. In theory, some how the sound board reads the voltage from the track and estimates the chuff chuff freq? Right now it chufs kind of random. When it stops the bell rings and it does a big steam sigh.


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

That link seemed to have changed a little on me. Yes. It's a blue Bo tender on one of the engines. In theory, some how the sound board reads the voltage from the track and estimates the chuff chuff freq? Right now it chufs kind of random. When it stops the bell rings and it does a big steam sigh.


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

Do you have an LGB Engine and an Aristo tender? Or, am I missing something in your posts?


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

Yes , I seem to be scrounging a train set together. I have a lgb engine and motorized tender and transformer from a starter set and some one scale and G scale cars I traded on. The Aristo cars have power pick ups on the wheels. The aristo tender pulls + and- from both the front and back trucks. Which seems weird and it has 9 volt battery. The tender is from b&o blue comet. I also got a 3foot long passenger blue comet car. It has power from wheels but that is just for lighting. Do you suspect the lgb transformer is different from the aristocraft transformer? sc


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Aristocraft uses PWC for all of its track powered controllers except for the 10 frequency/10 track receiver which has a PWC/Linear switch. 
LGB does not use PWC at all and some of their sound units and digital decoders do not work properly with PWC. 

And a LGB starter set transformer may not work on multiple motorized units, some of these were only 1/2 amp, and others were only 14 volts. 
You are attempting to pull a tractor trailer with your lawn mower!!


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

SC, please be more specific. Model numbers for engines and power supplies are needed to help answer your questions. Both Aristo and LGB have produced power supplies that vary from minimal to being able to handle anything you want to run. If you have a starter set PS it will not handle an engine, sound, smoke (?), and lighted cars. Does your engine have one or two motors? You can get a lot of informed help here, but you need to help us. We are not mind readers. Please provide more information than you think necessary, not less. My guess it that the power pickups on your tender served two purposes. Power the sound board and added power pickups for the engine. My two Aristo locomotives, Mallet and Mikado, have power pickups on the tender to add additional pickups for the engine and the sound boards. Chuck


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

OK here is what i know 

14 volt Chief yard master power supply , LGB engine has 2017 on the bottom and the tender is motorized also.. no numbers. The Blue Comet sound car tender had 4 big flat weights inside for some reason. I removed them. The little LGB engine peels out a bit getting started, I need to take the engine apart to see whats it but I bet its one motor. Might even add a weight to it. That power supply difference might be the issue though I don't think a DC motor cares if its straight dc or pwc. SC


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

SC


I rarely get skunked on a google search, but "14 volt Chief yard master power supply " , came up with nothing useful. Is there another name on it, LGB Aristo, Bachmann, etc."? Does it have speed control? More help is needed!

Chuck


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## tmejia (Jan 2, 2008)

SC
I'll take a shot in the dark on the power supply
From your posts

"Its a Chief yard man by Daylee electronics."

"and transformer from a starter set "

"14 volt Chief yard master power supply"


How about a Dallee Electronics Power Transformer #690?










The 690 is an external power source for the Dallee Yardmaster Throttle.

Yard Master Throttle

Tommy








Rio Gracie


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

LGB 2017 has only one motor. Powered LGB tender has only 1 motor. 
This set needs at least a 1 amp power supply and 18 volts to operate, 2 amps is much better. 
Engine should not 'peel' out with that tender unless the tender has a decoder or a bad motor.


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

http://www.dallee.com/PDFs/YardMaster_INST.PDF. This sounds like what I have. It's a black metal box with fwd neutral reverse, on off, Has red light if its shorted. Green LEDs when on. No model number. Has14volk checked off in marker on back. 50% throttle gets it going fast enough to kamikaze 
off the track. all the sewing oil I dripped on the car wheels to get them spinning good may have affected my engine peeling out some. Since the lgb engine has a little power jack on the rear, would it be safe to jumper it to the sound car in place of getting power from the wheels? Sc


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

SC, you need to make contact with a someone near you who has a "G" layout. Let them see what you have and make suggestions. As far as I can tell you do not have a throttle. Jack rabbit starts and stops are hard on the gears and motor in the engine and tender. The LGB engine and tender have excellent electrical contacts, you do not need to connect the sound tender to power the engine.


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

I always connect my engines and tenders with power. 
LGB has a tire on one wheel, so when going over a frog or crossover, electrical contact can be interrupted. 
Adding the power leads between the 2 units eliminates this issue, and also helps on dirty track. 
So, the LGB engine has a power port on the rear and the LGB power tender has power ports on the front and rear. 
There are 2 different type of connections, older ones have 2 round sockets, newer ones have a small rectangular socket and have 100 mil spacing on the 2 pins which are identical spacing as home computer connectors.


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

Thx Dan, the tender does indeed have +. - plugs in front an back. The engine plugs were harder to find , they are in the cab. This will let me crawl slow around the track better, there are some dead spots that the train needs a bit of speed to make it over, plus the engine head light is more of a flickering on off light as it tugs its heavy cars around around the track. I need to see what is inside this lgb engine and how it works . Something is bonking around in the case anyway, maybe treasure of some kind. sC 

Thx Chuck, I,m getting emails, from local folks with trains and could use some benchmarking even though winging it and trial and error, noise and flames is more my style. sC


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## Dan Pierce (Jan 2, 2008)

Note that for the LGB engine and tender, the sockets are aligned with the rails, that is the socket on the right is the right rail and the pin in the rectangular socket on the right is the right rail. Makes hooking up the power leads easy.


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

All right! Success. Using the power from the LGB engine and splicing that to the sound car made the Chuff chuff work. I'm so happy, Neat circuitry, with the 9 volt juice for when the train is not moving and the train power for the sound when its moving. I spent most of the morning trying to find the little cylinder signal magnet that spins over the wheel after it fell in the carpet.. 
Thanks everyone. SC


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## chuck n (Jan 2, 2008)

You can get the small magnets at RADIO SHACK. Get the smallest size. Congratulations on getting it to work. Chuck


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## Smelly_Cat (Oct 21, 2013)

more info, seems that the metal wheels are made to conduct or not. I had a WHEELS BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS/ I made the shorts mix matching wheels. Crazy.. SC

Lesson it matters how wheels face if they are metal when you draw track power


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